[14:02] <falcojr> blackboxsw: PRs are up for the rest of the ubuntu series
[14:07] <flaf> Hi @all. I'm using cloud-init on Redhat 8 with metadata where the only interface (ens192) is renamed to eth0. Cloud-init creates a classical udev rule in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules. OK. But even if I delete the renderer /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules after a reboot the interface is still renamed to eth0, as if cloud-init renamed interface without using the udev rule.
[14:08] <flaf> If I delete the renderer /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules and if I disable cloud-init, in this case the interface is not renamed and keeps its default name ens192.
[14:10] <flaf> So I imagine that cloud-init renames the interface at every reboot without using the udev rule file. Is it the expected behaviour and, if yes, why? I would like to understand. Thx for your help.
[14:13] <rbasak> Are you sure it's not ifnames or biosdevname that's doing this? I'm not familiar with modern RH specifically, but I thought it might be helpful to mention that there are also a bunch of other mechanisms for NIC renaming that exist generally. Or are you sure it's cloud-init doing this?
[14:19] <flaf> rbasak: maybe but if I rm the file /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules and I reboot, the interface is still renamed to eth0 and, if I "touch /etc/cloud/cloud-init.disabled" and I reboot, then the interface keeps its default name ens192. Then if I rm /etc/cloud/cloud-init.disabled and I reboot, then the interface is renamed to eth0 etc. etc. So I have the feeling that cloud-init renames
[14:19] <flaf> the interface on-the-fly during each boot. I don't say it's a bug, it's maybe an expected behaviour... I would like to understand.
[14:22] <falcojr> flaf: what cloud? cloud-init will apply whatever network config is fed to it, but will also generate a fallback networking config if none is fed to it...though that shouldn't involve renaming anything
[14:23] <flaf> falcojr: the VM is a vmware/vSan VM and I use the datasource "VMware" with this metadata:
[14:24] <flaf> http://paste.alacon.org/47370 <= my metadata
[14:27] <falcojr> set-name: "eth0" ?
[14:27] <flaf> falcojr: Is it incorrect?
[14:28] <falcojr> flaf: that's why your interface name is being set to eth0
[14:28] <flaf> With this metadata I have these 2 renderers http://paste.alacon.org/47371
[14:28] <flaf> falcojr: ^^
[14:30] <flaf> falcojr: yes indeed. But this is not exactly my question. My question is why after “rm /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules && reboot” the interface is still renamed to eth0 ?
[14:31] <flaf> falcojr: I admit that is strange to rename the interface to eth0 in metadata and rm after the udev rule but it's just to test and try to understand mechanism.
[14:31] <falcojr> flaf: the udev rule specifies what to do when the device is added to an already running system. This is separate from the network configuration that gets applied on boot
[14:34] <flaf> falcojr: ah... but in this case, where is the location of the conf file which allows cloud-init to know that the interface must be renamed at each reboot?
[14:37] <flaf> falcojr: it's strange, before I use cloud-init, I have already renamed interfaces via a file /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules and a reboot. In fact, before I use cloud-init, it was the way I used to rename interface. Something is unclear for me in your answer.
[14:44] <falcojr> sorry, I meant that in the context of what cloud-init does. udev rules do get applied on boot, but if you're using cloud-init, we use other network configuration
[14:45] <falcojr> flaf: re: location of conf file...there's not a single configuration file for that. It depends on whether cloud-init detects this boot as having a new instance or whether the datasource specifies to re-fetch metadata on each boot
[14:46] <flaf> falcojr: in another words, for me the udev rule file is enough to ensure the interface renaming at each boot, and I don't understand why cloud-init uses another mechanism and I don't understand well which is this mechanism.
[14:47] <flaf> and why, in this case, put a udev rule file if is finally useless.
[14:48] <flaf> cloud-init creates a udev rule file but this file is not necessary in fact. It's curious.
[14:58] <falcojr> flaf: sorry, I am not explaining this well. cloud-init will take the network configuration from the metadata and then write out network configuration that is specific to the distro it is working on. For some distros, this includes a udev file. But this is all based on the higher level network config...the thing you posted as the metadata in one of
[14:58] <falcojr> your first paste links. It may be true that with sysconfig, a udev rule is no longer necessary. I don't know the details of how rhel sets up networking very well. Did you check that the udev rule isn't getting regenerated on boot?
[15:00] <flaf> falcojr: the udev rule file is generated by cloud-init after the first boot (or if the cloud-init cache has been cleaned of course). This is, according to my test, the only moment where the udev rule file is generated.
[15:05] <falcojr> flaf: then in that case, I also find it odd that disabling cloud-init changes the network name on a subsequent boot :)
[15:05] <flaf> falcojr: Ok, we can imagine that the udev rule file is unnecessary but which mechanism does cloud-init uses to renamed the interface? I tried to found without success. Redhat 8 uses systemd, does cloud-init use systemd generator or something like that?
[15:08] <falcojr> cloud-init does have a systemd generator, but only to determine if cloud-init should run
[15:20] <flaf> falcojr: thx for your help. At this stage of my understanding concerning my initial question, I would say roughly that 1) cloud-init manages to rename the interface according to my metadata (I imagine via python code which creates on-the-fly udev rules in /run/ directory during each boot) and 2) in addition cloud-init puts a udev rule file (in the filesystem) in order to that interface renaming
[15:20] <flaf> persists even when cloud-init is disabled (or even uninstalled from the OS), which might make sens.
[15:22] <flaf> *sense
[15:24] <minimal> flaf: on every boot cloud-init looks at the names of network interfaces and the network config from provided "metadata" to see if any interfaces need rename. This can be seen in /var/log/cloud-init.log if debug is enabled
[15:25] <minimal> e.g. you might see a line "__init__.py[DEBUG]: no interfaces to rename"
[15:30] <flaf> minimal: falcojr: the thing that bother me is I thought that the role of cloud-init was just limited to writing configuration at boot (network config or not network config) specific to the distribution and then just letting the OS apply these configurations itself at boot (via the usual boot mechanism of the distribution). I didn't think cloud-init changed the state of the OS other than like
[15:30] <flaf> this.
[15:32] <minimal> flaf: some cloud-init modules may only on 1st boot but some other c-i modules can run on every boot
[15:33] <flaf> I have difficulties to undestand why cloud-init needs to do something other than "write config and let OS boot with this conf".
[15:34] <minimal> flaf: it does - it write the network config (eni, netplan, etc depending on distro) and it writes the udev netdev persistent rules which the OS then uses
[15:35] <minimal> your c-i network tells c-i to rename the ethernet to eth0 and so c-i writes config files to ensure this happens but you are not happy that it writes the config files to achieve this?
[15:37] <flaf> minimal: but above (yes it's a little long, sorry, I have an simple example which seems to indicate that cloud-init renames the interface _without_ using the udev rule file it created itself.
[15:38] <minimal> flaf: c-i itself does not use the udev rule, it creates the udev rule
[15:39] <flaf> minimal: no, that not my question. I explain you.
[15:40] <flaf> minimal: here is my metadata http://paste.alacon.org/47370 and here is the 2 renderer conf files generated by c-i http://paste.alacon.org/47371 (a network conf file and a udev rule file).
[15:41] <flaf> minimal: my question: if I make this test: “rm /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules && reboot”, the interface is still renamed to eth0, why?
[15:43] <flaf> minimal: however, the udev rule file is not present after reboot. So the udev rule file is gone but the interface is still renamed, why?
[15:44] <minimal> flaf: as I pointed out to you earlier if you enable debugging for c-i (maybe it is already) and look at /var/log/cloud-init.log you will see c-i deciding whether any network interfaces need to be renamed based on the metadata you provided
[15:45] <minimal> on *EVERY* boot c-i checks if the expected network interfaces ("eth0" in your case) exists or if another interface needs to be renamed to "eth0"
[15:46] <flaf> minimal: and c-i renames the interface if needed, even if the udev rule file is not present?
[15:46] <minimal> is it still renamed as the metadata you provided to c-i told c-i that it should be renamed
[15:47] <minimal> flaf: as I told you earlier c-i does not use udev rule files at all - udev used udev rule files
[15:49] <flaf> minimal: so, in this specific case, c-i changes the OS state without using the process "1) write conf files and 2) let the OS boots normally and uses these conf files", correct?
[15:50] <minimal> flaf: have you looked at /var/log/cloud-init.log with debug enabled to see what is happening?
[15:51] <flaf> minimal: and my second question: in this case, why c-i creates a udev rule file if it's finally unnecessary.
[15:53] <minimal> why don't you look at the log as explained to see what is actually happening? that should answer your questions for your specific situation and Linux distro
[15:53] <flaf> minimal: I'm seeing that now...
[15:58] <flaf> minimal: here is my log https://gist.github.com/flaf/5858afbdc0f6441890768ccc976f7620
[16:00] <minimal> flaf: so you see this line: 2021-11-03 14:59:08,129 - __init__.py[DEBUG]: no work necessary for renaming of [['00:50:56:a4:ee:a3', 'eth0', 'vmxnet3', '0x07b0']]
[16:02] <flaf> minimal: yes but I'm not sure to understand.
[16:02] <flaf> minimal: I can see too that cloud-init make a basic "ip link set" command to rename the interface.
[16:04] <flaf> minimal: so why sometime “no work necessary for renaming of [['00:50:56:a4:ee:a3', 'eth0', 'vmxnet3', '0x07b0']]” and sometime “Running command ['ip', 'link', 'set', 'ens192', 'name', 'eth0'] with allowed return codes [0] (shell=False, capture=True)”
[16:10] <flaf> minimal: ah maybe this explanation: at the first boot, cloud-init will use “ip link set” to rename the interface to eth0 because it default name is ens192. But at next boot, the udev rule has already renamed the interface to eth0, so I have line “no work necessary for renaming ...”. Is it correct?
[16:10] <minimal> the ens192 lines I assume are from the 1st boot
[16:11] <minimal> do you have logs from when you deleted udev rules file and rebooted?
[16:12] <flaf> minimal: no but I can make the test now...
[16:15] <minimal> that would then answer your questions
[16:18] <flaf> minimal: https://gist.github.com/flaf/5858afbdc0f6441890768ccc976f7620#gistcomment-3949882 => boot starts at 2021-11-03 16:13:47,353
[16:18] <flaf> this is unclear for me.
[16:25] <flaf> minimal: the other point for me is: why cloud-init creates a udev rule file when cloud-init makes already a rename at each boot via "ip link set"?
[16:43] <minimal> flaf: my understanding is that during 1st boot c-i renames the interface AND creates the udev file so that during subsequent boots udev will rename the interface so that c-i does not need to do so
[16:45] <flaf> minimal: ok. it's my understanding too.
[16:49] <flaf> minimal: c-i interface renaming at each boot and creating of udev file seems to me redundant but why not. I notice that the interface naming is a special case where this is not only "a) writing conf files and b) normal boot" process, c-i can make some setting without using conf files (via "ip link set").
[16:49] <minimal> c-i renaming does not happen at each boot
[16:50] <minimal> as the creation of the udev file on 1st boot avoids this
[16:51] <flaf> minimal: yes, sorry, it was approximation: c-i renaming happens at each boot *if required*.
[16:51] <minimal> flaf: yes because for some DataSources it is possible that the network-config can change between boots
[16:54] <flaf> minimal: Ah ok, now it's clearer now. Thx for your help.
[16:55] <minimal> flaf: c-i is working as designed
[16:55] <flaf> minimal: yes indeed, and I have understood lot things now. Many thx minimal.
[17:06] <flaf> falcojr: minimal: big thx for your help (and sorry for my poor english). Now I'll take some notes of all this info. Bye. :)
[20:54] <akutz> Does anyone here have any guidance on how to build cloud-init 21.3 for CentOS 8 Stream?
[21:07] <blackboxsw> akutz: ./tools/run-container centos/8 --package   # from cloud-init repo uses LXD to launch centos 8 container and build a cloud-init RPM using the spec template in packages/redhat/cloud-init.spec.in I think
[21:08] <blackboxsw> we use it for our copr build jenkins publisher, which also builds centos/8 packages for testing/development from tip of main  @ https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/g/cloud-init/cloud-init-dev/
[21:09] <akutz> Grazzie!
[21:13] <akutz> blackboxsw: There isn't a single successful 21.3 build. The last successful build was for 21.2, and now y'all are on 21.4. Should there not have been a successful 21.3 build?
[21:13] <akutz> I'm looking at https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/g/cloud-init/cloud-init-dev/package/cloud-init/
[21:13] <akutz> (under packages)
[21:13] <akutz> Then I clicked on "cloud-init"
[21:15] <blackboxsw> akutz: I think the "failed" status is a global there due to failures on ppc64 build envs. if I look into each build https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/g/cloud-init/cloud-init-dev/build/2918713/  I see success for epel-8 based RPMs. checking details on a centos/8 container to see if I can see the a  recently build cloud-init from the copr repo
[21:15] <akutz> Ahh. Oops, sorry to be an alarmist.
[21:16] <akutz> Do you know which one was the official build by chance? I guess it's not there since this is a dev channel after all.
[21:18] <akutz> Either way, thank you again sir!
[21:19] <blackboxsw> yeah: "(182/182): cloud-init-21.4-1.el8.noarch.rpm     349 kB/s | 1.1 MB     00:03    " on my `yum update` in a container when adding this text to /etc/yum.repos.d/CentOS-cloudinit.repo    https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/g/cloud-init/cloud-init-dev/repo/epel-8/group_cloud-init-cloud-init-dev-epel-8.repo
[21:20] <blackboxsw> and no worries we probably should drop EL-7 ppc64le builders anyway to avoid triggering the red/green Failure alarms anyway
[21:22] <blackboxsw> akutz: we are going through an upstream release 21.4 of cloud-init at the moment and we should publish those "more stable" builds to https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/g/cloud-init/el-testing/
[21:22] <blackboxsw> actually looks like falcojr already has thanks James!
[21:23] <blackboxsw> akutz: so 21.4 is latest release, and we should only push updates to the el-testing repo when we cut upstream releases and SRU that content back to earlier versions of Ubuntu
[21:23] <blackboxsw> that way consumers don't have as much churn/risk of daily breakag
[21:23] <akutz> Ack, thanks!
[21:23] <blackboxsw> that way consumers don't have as much churn/risk of daily breakage
[21:23] <akutz> 21.4 already, fantastic. Y'all rock!
[21:24]  * blackboxsw tips the hat to falcojr :)
[21:25] <blackboxsw> akutz: note we are starting to get other PRs that are adding dependencies on netifaces python module. we may need to chat with you/discuss on mailinglist over the coming weeks about whether we can garner enough support in cloudinit.net modules to meet the gaps you mentioned that the VMWare datasource needed support for
[21:25] <blackboxsw> if we are to mainline that "missing" functionality in existing cloud-init network modules/functions.
[21:27] <blackboxsw> https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/1079 adds another datasource importing python's netifaces module which I think you mentioned VMware was using due to some failures in cloud-init on Macbooks or OSX I can't quite recall
[21:28] <blackboxsw> I'll go back the the original VMware PR to get more context. But, we'll probably have a couple of questions if we long-term try to drop the python netifaces dependency
[21:43] <akutz> blackboxsw: Are you indicating this is a bad thing or just something you'd rather avoid? I'm happy to readdress this. Maybe we should set up a Zoom between a few of us to review the reasons I put it there in the first place and we can determine if there's a safe way off of it.
[21:45] <blackboxsw> akutz: I think from cloud-init's perspective the less additional python module dependencies the better, to avoiding image bloat pulling due to pulling in lots of python package dependencies. I don't think it's too "bad" in this case, but I think we might be able to solve the platform/environment use-cases that you mentioned as gaps when we introduced the VMware datasource which imported netifaces.
[21:45] <blackboxsw> If we *can* solve that in cloud-init proper without additional package dependency, that's a small win in my mind.
[21:46] <blackboxsw> yes I think it's worth us enumerating the known gaps to see if we can't tackle them before our 22.1 release early next year. Then we can avoid adding more datasource consumers of netifaces if unnecessary.
[21:47] <blackboxsw> I think it's worth us starting an email thread on this to see if there are interested parties and we can carve out investigatory work to see if this is possible/valuable.
[21:49] <akutz> Sure thing. I'm akutz at vmware dot com if you want to kick something off and CC me.
[21:49] <blackboxsw> will talk w/ falcor tomorrow and somone will reflect this<EMAIL_ADDRESS>too
[21:49] <blackboxsw> +1 will do
[21:49] <akutz> I did not really consider how opening pandora's box would cause *other* people to start depending on this. I just thought it would be an AI for me to remove my own dep at some point. Thank you for letting me know!
[21:52] <blackboxsw> no worries/blame. it was a risk once it was included. But we can sort our trajectory and see if it's reasonable feedback on the new Xensource datasource too to avoid additional dependencies there
[22:15] <blackboxsw> falcojr: for SRU review of 21.4, I want to wait until we minimally have LXD images present in image streams for Jammy to make sure our LXD handling actually works as intended. currently I see that image builds are stuck at Nov 1st which was before our upload.
[22:15] <blackboxsw> so, I'll approve but let's not merge until we have an successful Jammy test run with released images containing LXDdatasource


[15:00] <mbiebl> Keybuk: hi
[15:00] <Keybuk> hey
[15:00] <mbiebl> tested your ubuntu-boot ppa
[15:00] <mbiebl> noticed two issues:
[15:00] <mbiebl> With FSCKFIX=no, it fails to boot
[15:01] <mbiebl> and I get a warning during boot from mountall, that it couldn't write the pid file
[15:01] <mbiebl> as the fs was ro
[15:02] <Keybuk> err, as in you *set* FSCKFIX=no?
[15:02] <mbiebl> mountall also mounts stuff which is later attempted again by the apparmor sysv init script
[15:03] <mbiebl> Yes, I had set FSCKFIX=no
[15:06] <mbiebl> With FSCKFIX=yes it boots fine
[15:07] <mbiebl> I'm getting a warning though: init: mountall main process (927) terminated with status 1
[15:08] <Keybuk> oh, that's not good ;)
[15:10] <ion> mbiebl: Do you have multiple partitions in fstab, btw? Are they on the same disk?
[15:10] <ion> mbiebl: Oh, actually, do you have multiple pass=2 partitions in fstab?
[15:11] <mbiebl> interestingly I can't always reproduce this warning message
[15:12] <mbiebl> The: "mountall: Unable to write pid file: Read-only file system" is reproducible
[15:12] <mbiebl> The other one not
[15:12] <ion> keybuk: Does mountall handle the pass=1 / partition first and pass=2 ones later in parallel? I haven’t really looked at that part of the code.
[15:12] <mbiebl> ion: I tested inside virtualbox installation with a / and swap partition
[15:13] <Keybuk> no
[15:13] <ion> Ok, no need to test my patches then. I probably should install virtualbox myself and test different partition configurations.
[15:13] <Keybuk> pass= is fairly nonsensical for mountall
[15:13] <ion> Ok
[15:14] <mbiebl> Keybuk: another issue I observed is, that the upgrade of at hangs
[15:15] <mbiebl> The "start at" command in postinst does not complete
[15:15] <mbiebl> so the upgrade process is stuck at this stage
[15:15] <mbiebl> I manually had to kill the start command so the upgrade process could finish
[15:17] <mbiebl> I also remember problems with services that use restart in postinst instead of start/stop (like rsyslog), when the initial upgrade to the upstart job is made
[15:18] <Keybuk> I thought I'd fixed all those issues
[15:18] <Keybuk> it'll complain but not fail the postinst
[15:19] <mbiebl> lemme check again. I set a snapshot in virtualbox, so I can easily test an upgrade again.
[16:55] <mbiebl> Keybuk: looking at the bootchart of the default alpha5 install now
[16:56] <mbiebl> What is this weird couchdb doing. It spawns xulrunner and takes over 5 secs
[16:59] <mbiebl> Keybuk: I think FSCKFIX=no is the default
[16:59] <Keybuk> it is
[17:00] <sadmac2> mbiebl: couchdb wat?
[17:00] <mbiebl> sadmac2: no idea what this is doing
[17:01] <mbiebl> and why this is in a default install
[17:01] <sadmac2> mbiebl: I'd love to know
[17:02] <Md> couchdb is a key-value data storage
[17:02] <Md> I fear that somebody tought it would be a great backend for some desktop application...
[17:02] <mbiebl> Md: why does it need to run xulrunner for that?
[17:02] <Keybuk> I know
[17:02] <Keybuk> I saw that today
[17:03] <Keybuk> BIG SIGH
[17:03] <sadmac2> Md: is it just key-value? last I read up on it I thought it was a bit shinier.
[17:04] <mbiebl> Keybuk: damn, I'm hitting the superblock mount time in the future issue in my virtualbox install
[17:04] <mbiebl> I guess this is also where the new mountall fails
[17:04] <sadmac2> mbiebl: your drive has negative write latency?
[17:05] <Keybuk> hahaha
[17:06] <mbiebl> could this be a ext4 or util-linux bug?
[17:06] <Keybuk> did the new mountall fail properly to a shell
[17:06] <Keybuk> ?
[17:06] <Keybuk> it's a bug in the ext3 and ext4 filesystem code in the kernel
[17:06] <Md> no clue about both issues, since it is written in erlang I stand clear from it
[17:08] <mbiebl> Keybuk: when is it triggered?
[17:08] <mbiebl> I don't seem to encounter it on every boot
[17:09] <sadmac2> Md: something particular against erlang, or just not a λ guy?
[17:10]  * sadmac2 still has haskell on his list of languages to find something to do with.
[17:10] <Keybuk> mbiebl: east of UTC, hardware clock in local time, system powered off without clean unmount
[17:11] <mbiebl> It's the clean unmount that bothers me, because I did a regular shutdown/reboot
[17:11] <Md> sadmac2: I had ejabberd explode puke erlang core dumps on me too many times...
[17:12] <sadmac2> Md: shame. That's supposed to be one of the better jabber servers.
[17:12] <Md> and indeed it is. you figure :-)
[17:12] <Md> (I jave not tried the java ones, but I hate java with a passion)
[17:13] <sadmac2> Md: you're a good man
[17:14] <ion> CouchDB seems awesome and Erlang is awesome. :-P
[17:15] <sadmac2> I'm very drawn to λ programming. I need something to do in ocaml/haskell/erlang
[17:15] <sadmac2> something that isn't such a wacky idea that I'm afraid of dooming it further by writing it in a language people are hostile to by policy
[18:12] <Keybuk> mbiebl: hah, that FSCKFIX is never going to work, is it?
[18:41] <mbiebl> Keybuk: what do you mean, setting it to yes?
[18:41] <Keybuk> no, I mean that if you do FSCKFIX=no it'll still act as if it's yes
[18:43] <mbiebl> dunno if this is the case with the new mountall command
[18:43] <mbiebl> With the old initscripts, it made a difference
[18:44] <Keybuk> huh? :)
[18:44] <Keybuk> I mean the code in /etc/init/mountall.conf
[18:44] <Keybuk> [ -n "$MOUNTALL" ] && fsck_fix="--fsck-fix"
[18:44] <Keybuk> err
[18:44] <Keybuk> [ -n "$FSCKFIX" ] && fsck_fix="--fsck-fix"
[18:44] <Keybuk> is wrong ;)
[18:44] <Keybuk> I just changed it
[18:45] <Keybuk> [ "$FSCKFIX" = "yes" ] && fsck_fix="--fsck-fix"
[18:45] <Keybuk> ;)
[18:45] <mbiebl> ok
[21:25] <sadmac2> Keybuk: I tried to test an upstart build the other day. It didn't grab the dbus name (because I didn't run it as root and left out the upstart.xml file), but moreover I couldn't look at it at all with d-feet. System logs said something about not having permissions to call the introspection methods. Will putting the permissions file in place and running as root miraculously fix this?
[21:40] <mbiebl> Keybuk: found a few other issues: at vs atd
[21:40] <mbiebl> after the upgrade, there is /etc/init.d/atd and /etc/rcS.d/S89atd because the upstart job is called "at"
[21:42] <mbiebl> Directly after the upgrade, this is the list of initctl list: http://paste.debian.net/46172/
[21:44] <mbiebl> As you can see, a few services are not listed as running, like rsyslog, udev or avahi-daemon
[21:44] <mbiebl> interestingly dbus is marked as start/running without a pid
[21:57] <mbiebl> There is also still a symlink /etc/rcS.d/S37udev-finish after the upgrade
[22:01] <mbiebl> on shutdown, I also get the following messages
[22:02] <mbiebl> init: rc main process (2383) stopped by STOP signal
[22:02] <mbiebl> init: rc main process (2383) continued by CONT signal
[22:02] <mbiebl> init: rc main process (2383) stopped by STOP signal
[22:02] <mbiebl> init: rc main process (2383) continued by CONT signal
[22:02] <mbiebl> ...


 hmmmm
[02:41] <ubptgbot> <8BTC Melody> I don't understand sir
 @alera_on [I read the feedbacks above, but I was a little lost.  However, I would like to p …], cool, you can use the logo for your desktop mix that uses lomiri
 arch and manjaro that use lomiri substitute their own logis
[05:41] <ubptgbot> Novan23a was added by: Novan23a
[07:12] <ubptgbot> RadekR was added by: RadekR
[07:27] <ubptgbot> harmonline was added by: harmonline
[07:35] <ubptgbot> xander2m was added by: xander2m
[08:37] <ubptgbot> Sam was added by: Sam
[08:47] <ubptgbot> Nikosm was added by: Nikosm
[09:40] <ubptgbot> wouter182 was added by: wouter182
 For all the people who did read the information about ubports on tweakers.net and search for the dutch user group, the group is @UBports_NL
[09:52] <ubptgbot> Joannis was added by: Joannis
 I don't currently own a supported device, but I've been happily looking forward to working on developing more Linux clients. Does Ubuntu Touch happen to support an emulator?
 Or something like a VM of sorts
 And has anyone here compiled a Swift program on/for Ubuntu Touch?
 @Joannis [And has anyone here compiled a Swift program on/for Ubuntu Touch?], Ubuntu touch supports only .click packages and you should program your app in c++/qml
 @just_carlod [Ubuntu touch supports only .click packages and you should program your app in c+ …], Can I not make a (Swift) binary that links with the C++ QML library?
 And by _should_ I assume you mean that it's possible to do otherwise, but not recommended?
 Hello, I would like to run the entire UBports network through TOR every time the smartphone starts up, do you know how to do that?
 @Joannis [And by _should_ I assume you mean that it's possible to do otherwise, but not re …], Qml is mainly used for UI. You can use many languages for backend. c++ although is the only one that will allow you access all parts of the system. But JS, python, rust, go, ... can be used and are already used.
 @Danfro [Qml is mainly used for UI. You can use many languages for backend. c++ although …], Exactly, that makes sense 🙂
 Thanks to both of you!
 @Elias [Hello, I would like to run the entire UBports network through TOR every time the …], Wouldn't this be the same/similar to the same question on regular ubuntu?
 @nanu_c [Because every app started with qmlscene is called that way and there is no possi …], there is though.
 A thin version of "qmlscene" implementing a qml engine and exposing applicationName and title to a qt quick application is possible. At some point in qt, Window and Settings had properties exposed which could do this, but I'm not sure it was pre or post 5.9
 I would argue that an app should be described by its window title property, for QML apps.
 @Joannis [Wouldn't this be the same/similar to the same question on regular ubuntu?], Ubuntu Desktop is much less limited than Ubuntu Touch, if you have an answer to how to get all the ubuntu Touch network through TOR, I'm more than a taker.
 I don't, unfortunately. I'm really just exploring the idea of getting a new phone to start developing again. I had Ubuntu Touch installed on an old phone a long time ago, but since a Dutch news website just posted an article this has gotten my interest again.
 @Joannis [I don't, unfortunately. I'm really just exploring the idea of getting a new phon …], Go ahead. Always a good choice. 👍🏼
 @Elias [Ubuntu Desktop is much less limited than Ubuntu Touch, if you have an answer to …], Does there happen to be a list of notable limitations?
 For dev, I love UT. I kinda don't love media-hub though.
 What my gut instinct says is that getting a small set of Swift libraries for UT would be a great starting place for getting more app developers involved.
 Imagine Dart and Flutter on UT?
 That'd help a tonne, too
 It's .. actually somewhat trivial to implement, too.
 I would love to write that, but I'm poor and too busy developing paid apps 😭
 @Daniel [A thin version of "qmlscene" implementing a qml engine and exposing applicationN …], So you have a documentation for that?
 @Daniel [For dev, I love UT. I kinda don't love media-hub though.], I think media hub is fine, just needs further development to support more use cases … what I don't like is the content hub. I feel like it has to be redesigned from the ground up. Too bad we don't billions to develop these things 😆
 I .. don't know, if you open Qt Creator and click "New Project", then select "Qt Quick - Empty Project" you get a thin client that, if you modify main.cpp to load argv[1] instead of "qml/main.cpp" would effectively provide the same thing.
 Exposing QApplication properties is relatively well documented, though.
 @Javacookies [I think media hub is fine, just needs further development to support more use ca …], I haven't played with it much, but I have one app where media plays, but I only get audio because of... reasons?
 In the same app I want to save content, and it .. "works", but only to my app's own private content folder. I don't blame content hub for it, I know very well I'm not familiar enough with it.
 @Joannis [Does there happen to be a list of notable limitations?], Ubuntu Touch is not an open linux distribution, you can just do what you want to do, all usable applications are in the openStore. … but that's not the point, if you think Ubuntu Touch has no limitation then feel free to explain me how to get the whole ubuntu touch network t
[10:47] <ubptgbot> hrough TOR. … Because under any linux distribution, it's very easy to install a tool like anonym8 https://github.com/HiroshiManRise/anonym8 to make the whole network switch to TOR.
 @Elias [Ubuntu Touch is not an open linux distribution, you can just do what you want to …], That's not what I'm saying. I'm actually asking for the limitations, because I'm curious.
 I'm not trying to argue for or against your question.
 Background applications aren't really a thing, sometimes calls or SMSs aren't received, many popular services from iPhone and Android aren't yet available, and video playback kinda only works from official apps
 Buuut you should also ask about advantages
 @Joannis [That's not what I'm saying. I'm actually asking for the limitations, because I'm …], Okay, sorry I didn't understand, on Ubuntu Touch it's recommended to use only the tools offered in the openStore, because as soon as you start trying to install other tools, it immediately becomes a gas factory ^^
 @Elias [Okay, sorry I didn't understand, on Ubuntu Touch it's recommended to use only th …], I would be happy to help if I could install UT now. That'll have to wait a little while. I hope someone else in this chat has a solution for you 🙂
 @Daniel [Buuut you should also ask about advantages], I can see a lot of advantages, for myself at least. I've got a large set of Swift libraries that are designed for Linux . And I'm eagerly looking forward to expanding them to client devices, as well.
 @Daniel [Background applications aren't really a thing, sometimes calls or SMSs aren't re …], These'll be solved over time, I'm sure.
 It's a reinforced circle with ecosystems like these. More negative or lack of attention, leads to more. The same goes for more positive or intensive attention.
 I'm sorry
[10:56] <ubptgbot> Levkama was added by: Levkama
 I thought Swift was an iPhone/Apple thing
 Yeah, that's still on the back of many minds.
 What is the easiest programming language to develop applications for UT?
 QML/Javascript
 https://swift.org/download/#releases
 There's quite a few platforms now
 @Joannis [Yeah, that's still on the back of many minds.], Okay, so all you need is a Swift rendering system for your apps/libraries?
 I'm personally not interested in Windows, beyond servers
 @Daniel [Okay, so all you need is a Swift rendering system for your apps/libraries?], Sure
 I'm happy building it myself
[10:58] <ubptgbot> zarcoz was added by: zarcoz
 Saying "Windows Server" to me sounds like "Sushi Icecream", but I know it's a real thing
 @Daniel [Saying "Windows Server" to me sounds like "Sushi Icecream", but I know it's a re …], Yeah, some customers only run Windows server
 Idk, I hate it. But there's a demand
 I'm aware, and I ... don't blame them, for a lot of vendors, it's the only choice
 Intuit still doesn't develop ACCPAC on Linux, I think?
 I've got a partial MSSQL library lying around for that need
 Have you worked with MSSQL?
 Oh, sorry
 Not much, hardly any
 Luckily
 Just the protocol
 That was painful enough
 I read MySQL and.. yeah, me too. Yet I made a living fixing it for like 3 years.
 Don't think MySQL is great though.. I dismissed the entire idea of MySQL being a great system when I dove into the protocol.
 PSQL is a lot better in many ways
 I would argue that Linux-centric services require background knowledge, and MS-centric services you can fumble, google, and click your way through
 @Daniel [I would argue that Linux-centric services require background knowledge, and MS-c …], That's scale, isn't it?
 I like PGSQL I just don't live having to vacuum
 Scale...
 SQL isn't scale.
 Anyways, what I'm interested in is Ubuntu Touch + Swift for ARM
 https://swift-arm.com
 I mean scale in users, not data
 I get that, but bad indexes make fools of SQL admins
 I think you should attempt a port
 Clickable is the buildsystem
 If you visit https://clickable-ut.dev/en/latest/ you can get a primer on how to start.
 I've added you as a telegram contact, do you mind if I reach out to you when I've got an environment to use?
[11:03] <ubptgbot> ihor_shaman was added by: ihor_shaman
 It will seem intense, but A) it isn't, and B) join https://t.me/UbuntuAppDevEN
 Not at all, call me if you want
 My English is decent enough
 Cool
 Although I've only ever developed 5 or 6 UT apps
 Hah, I've done 1 prototype 2 years ago I think
 That's 5 of my 6, no worries
 Not much has changed
 Clickable actually got more stable, and easier to use
 Also, they allow my last name now
 Wat do you mean?
 Oh, my last name is O'Neill
 And you know SQL, that isn't allowed
 HAH!
 @Daniel [Imagine Dart and Flutter on UT?], Allowing UT app development using Swift /dart is great idea 😍. … It will bring lots of mobile developer into UT ecosystem.Please let me know if you need any helping hands .I will be happy to help.
 Will do!
 I'm going to set up a development environment in a few hours
 I'll link it here to you and Daniel if I have a small app working
 Or if I'm stuck
 @Joannis [Does there happen to be a list of notable limitations?], few notable differences of UT compared to desktop ubuntu would be: … - a readonly rootfs … - rootfs limited to 2GB … - aggressive battery management … - applications are confined
 @Elias [Ubuntu Touch is not an open linux distribution, you can just do what you want to …], if that is need we need to find a way to install it no?
 @Elias [Okay, sorry I didn't understand, on Ubuntu Touch it's recommended to use only th …], uh no, that's not completely through, apt just isn't supported and if libertine is not useful, there's no other alternative.........yet
 @Joannis [It's a reinforced circle with ecosystems like these. More negative or lack of at …], agreed xD
 @Elias [Okay, sorry I didn't understand, on Ubuntu Touch it's recommended to use only th …], [Edit] uh no, that's not completely through, apt just isn't supported and if libertine is not useful, there's no other alternative.........yet … currently if the solution is `install this-app` then its worth to see if libertine can do the trick
[13:36] <ubptgbot> peterpepper was added by: peterpepper
[13:58] <ubptgbot> Manish was added by: Manish
 I've just ordered a secondhand Nexus 5. Can anyone tell me about their experiences with convergence? Does it work well? What do you do about keyboard & mouse? Thanks
 bluetooth kb/mouse or the phone itself should become a virtual touchpad (not sure if that's still not working right on n5 or not)
[15:06] <ubptgbot> mrcyjanek was added by: mrcyjanek
 @dohbee [bluetooth kb/mouse or the phone itself should become a virtual touchpad (not sur …], Oh, I didn't realise that would work as a virtual mouse. Sounds good
 virtual touchpad on the nexus 5 wasn't working before but it got fix but it's broken again 😅
 what you need is a slimport HDMI adapter amd BT KB and mouse for a better experience
 it works quite well but the RAM is a limiting factor especially if you want to use the browser and/or webapps a lot
 I have a long video showing it on youtube
 Please link it here @Javacookies
 here, it's a long one 😄 … https://youtu.be/WpUO4d5BByk
 Good work on the OTA-14 release folks.
 @wayneTBT [Good work on the OTA-14 release folks.], 15 it is ^^ but thank you
 hah, oops, took it from the pinned message above.
 ohhh yeah, pinned messages
 Yeah the problem is now you can have multiple pinned msgs
 @Flohack [Yeah the problem is now you can have multiple pinned msgs], I think it's really usefull feature
 Ubuntu Touch OTA-15 is here with improvements to our newest and most powerful devices, redesigned tab navigation in Morph Browser, and so much more. Coming to your Ubuntu Touch device on the "Stable" channel this week! … https://ubports.com/blog/ubport-blogs-news-1/post/ubuntu-touch-ota-15-release-3736
 @Flohack [Yeah the problem is now you can have multiple pinned msgs], [Edit] I think it's really useful feature
 @Flohack [Yeah the problem is now you can have multiple pinned msgs], you can unpin old ones though
 speaking of pinned messages, the one on the  pinephone is still about UBppots 😀
 @UniversalSuperBox [Ubuntu Touch OTA-15 is here with improvements to our newest and most powerful de …], Thanks, looking at this now.
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc.ubports.com/6JdDlnVq.png
 Say which os is this
 😅😁😁😄😄
 not ubuntu touch
 @dohbee [you can unpin old ones though], Yes but we Admins should not mess too much, that should be done by one guy only (unfortunately ;))
 so the wrong place to discuss it :P
 @ggio01 [Say which os is this], It's Ubuntu, possibly xfce, with latte dock. But you might prefer https://t.me/UBportsOF for those discussions :D
 @ggio01 [<reply to media>], kali kde 🤮
 @ggio01 [<reply to media>], [Edit] kali kde 🤮 #stopusingkali
 @just_carlod [kali kde 🤮 #stopusingkali], Yah using kde kali is responding verry slow no matter how ur hardwere is
 But kde is very beautyful and fully tumhari izabel
 [Edit] But kde is very beautyful and castomaiseable
 @ggio01 [<reply to media>], is this hack ? lol 😂
 Hack !!??
 What r u asking for ??
 The font
 I think
 That's the first thing that came to mind anyway haha
 @just_carlod [kali kde 🤮 #stopusingkali], So suggest a os remember i never used arch so don't say black arch
 Please move to https://t.me/UBportsOF for further discussions about Kali. This room is about Ubuntu Touch and other UBports projects :)
[16:10] <ubptgbot> <Oxy Kali> @dohbee [not ubuntu touch], yeah
 @Oxy Kali [yeah], What about having a ubuntu touch specific one?
[16:58] <ubptgbot> xaber22 was added by: xaber22
 redmi note 8 is compatible with ubuntu touch??
 @xaber22 [redmi note 8 is compatible with ubuntu touch??], Please go to https://t.me/WelcomePlus and read the messages I did just post (and pin) there.
 That hopefully answers all your questions.
 If not feel free to ask. 😊
 @Javacookies [what you need is a slimport HDMI adapter amd BT KB and mouse for a better experi …], Okay. I'll put it on my Santa list!
 @Javacookies [here, it's a long one 😄 … https://youtu.be/WpUO4d5BByk], Thanks 👍👍
 @Danfro [That hopefully answers all your questions.], Thanks 👍🏻😁
 You are welcome. (and not the only one asking that question 😉)
 @Javacookies [speaking of pinned messages, the one on the  pinephone is still about UBppots 😀], UBPpots? is that a cooking show?
 what would UBP stand for?
 UltraBook Pro :D
 @Fuseteam [UBPpots? is that a cooking show?], it's an illegal fork of UT
 @NotKit [what would UBP stand for?], why UBPorts ofcourse :p
 @RealDanct12 [UltraBook Pro :D], 😂
 @Fuseteam [UBPpots? is that a cooking show?], Lol
 First time I wrote lol and laughed
 ._.
 lol
[19:04] <ubptgbot> germanztz was added by: germanztz
[19:25] <ubptgbot> Abdelouahed Touimi was added by: Abdelouahed Touimi
 @Elias [Hello, I would like to run the entire UBports network through TOR every time the …], there is no supported way of doing so currently. and i'm not sure what you'd need to configure exactly otherwise if you want to do the unsupported method by expanding your rootfs and using it in r/w mode
[19:47] <ubptgbot> nikio was added by: nikio
 So I switched to RC from Stable, is it possible to go back to Stable
 Could it be cuz am on 28% (still charging)
 yes you can switch channels again
 Clicking install and reboot does nothing
 At first it notified me of low battery, charging it to around 30% i attempted again, which got me to this point
 ok, not sure. maybe it will install if you reboot to recovery mode
 I will charge it a bit more and attempt again after a reboot
 If anything it could be a bug that has to be documented
[20:24] <ubptgbot> RiveraManny was added by: RiveraManny
[21:16] <ubptgbot> floop2 was added by: floop2
[22:28] <ubptgbot> sagar_hp was added by: sagar_hp
 @SomaSchicksal [If anything it could be a bug that has to be documented], rc to stable is normally done in Settings:Updates
[23:57] <ubptgbot> JOH_1 was added by: JOH_1


[04:31] <lamont-away> and hppa gets a second buildd.
[08:02] <lamont> doko: gdc_py.c:30:20: error: Python.h: No such file or directory
[08:02] <lamont> gdc_py.c:31:23: error: cStringIO.h: No such file or directory
[08:02] <lamont> please fix python-gdchart_0.6.1-9ubuntu1
[08:08] <lamont> yep.  iz ftbfs everywhere
[08:22] <doko> $ apt-cache show python-gdchart
[08:22] <doko> Package: python-gdchart
[08:22] <doko> Priority: optional
[08:22] <doko> Section: python
[08:22] <doko> Installed-Size: 136
[08:22] <doko> Maintainer: Jonas Smedegaard<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[08:22] <doko> Architecture: amd64
[08:22] <doko> Version: 0.6.1-8ubuntu2
[08:25] <lamont> 0.6.1-9ubuntu1 is the current source in the archive, and it's ftbfs
[08:26] <lamont> and /me isn't sure what depends to drop on what...
[08:27] <lamont> hrm.. actually, looks like adding python2.4-dev should fix it
[08:27] <lamont> but I really need to sleep
[08:27] <lamont> and actually, it probably doesn't meet criteria for upload until after preview-freeze lifts


[00:49] <serialorder> i updated a po file but when I rebuild the package those updates are not included. I don't think the mo file is being remade. Anyone have any ideas on how I could fix this?
[00:54] <jmarsden|work> serialorder: If you think the mo file *should* be being remade, then you'll want to read the Makfile(s) involved and find out why that is not happening, and perhaps edit debian/rules a little to make sure that *does* happen during your build target?
[00:55] <jmarsden|work> However, I'm not sure if the whole "Ubuntu does its own translations" deal comes into play with things like this... if it does, I know nothing about how all that works!
[00:56] <ScottK> jmarsden: That all happens on the buildds.  For local build tests it shouldn't come into play.
[00:56] <jmarsden|work> OK, then the answer for serialorder is "read and understand your Makefiles, I think.
[01:02] <jekil> how i can use dh_desktop?
[01:03] <pochu> you only need it if you ship desktop files which define MimeTypes
[01:03] <pochu> use it as "dh_desktop -p$package"
[01:03] <pochu> in binary-install, IIRC
[01:04] <jekil> thanks
[01:04] <pochu> right, binary-install/$package
[01:04] <pochu> yw
[01:06] <directhex> does some poor bugger produce modules for Intel's x-fi sound cards for the ubuntu kernel? afaik they're far from entering mainline alsa
[01:11] <soc> directhex: x-fi is from creative i thought ...
[01:11] <directhex> sorry, i meant them
[01:11] <directhex> i need more sleep, it seems
[01:18] <jekil> pochu: and i must put my .desktop in /debian ?
[01:20] <jekil> pochu: sorry, obviously yes
[01:26] <pochu> jekil: and forward it to upstream if appropriate :)
[01:26] <pochu> jekil: note that dh_desktop won't install the desktop file, you need to use dh_install or whatever to install it to /usr/share/applications/
[01:27] <pochu> dh_desktop will take care of calling update-desktop-base in the post{inst,rm}
[01:27] <jekil> pochu: thanks
[01:29] <jekil> please sameonecan review/advocate? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=4448
[01:32] <pochu> jekil: in debian/changelog, you should only put one changelog entry, and set the distribution to jaunty
[01:33] <pochu> jekil: the Homepage in debian/control should go in the source stanza (where Standards-Version is)
[01:35] <pochu> jekil: I don't have time for a full review, but the package looks good :)
[01:50] <jekil> pochu: fixed and uploaded, thank you for your help
[01:50] <pochu> jekil: you're welcome. good luck with it!
[03:17] <masti83_> test
[03:55] <pochu> james_w: hi :) that ppamadison script looks useful, I think it'd be suitable for u-d-t
[04:11] <ScottK> TheMuso: Is speakup enabled in our Intrepid kernel?  I gather it was in Gutsy and then dropped in Hardy.
[04:20] <TheMuso> ScottK: No its not. It was in edgy and feisty, and dropped for gutsy, and never to return, at least if I have anything to do with it.
[04:21] <ScottK> TheMuso: Really?  OK.  I was just talking to someone who was going to use Fedora instead because of the lack.
[04:21] <TheMuso> Meh good for them.
[04:21] <ScottK> TheMuso: Is there a wiki page or something we have on what to use instead?
[04:21] <TheMuso> They can use bad code all they want for all I care.
[04:21]  * ScottK doesn't know about it at all.
[04:21] <TheMuso> ScottK: Not really, wiki stuff for accessibility is lacking in that area.
[04:22] <TheMuso> well wiki stuff for accessibility is lacking, period.
[04:23] <TheMuso> ScottK: Unfortunately speakup last I checked suffers from bad code quality, and doesn't perform well on SMP systems or under heavy system load, as well as talking to serial ports directly, and not going through the needed kernel subsystems.
[04:24] <ScottK> TheMuso: OK.  When I tell them no, what do I tell them we use instead?
[04:25] <TheMuso> ScottK: We use gnome-orca, which is a screen reader for the GNOME desktop.
[04:25] <pochu> Orca?
[04:25] <ScottK> TheMuso: Thanks.
[04:25] <TheMuso> pochu: yes
[04:25] <pochu> ah, he already asked :)
[04:26] <pochu> TheMuso: right, I didn't read your last message :)
[04:26] <TheMuso> pochu: Right.
[04:28] <StevenK> Orca certainly seems more pleasant than speakup
[04:28] <StevenK> But you can't really compare user and system level code
[04:28] <TheMuso> StevenK: Yep.
[04:31]  * pochu waves good night
[04:34] <agent47a> hi... i'm a noob trying to to help with Bug #293722 found here:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manpage-repository/+bug/293722  .  I finished with the editing ctorrent.sgml .  I am using the workaround to build the binary without signing it: "debuild -uc -us"  But I don't know how to build the source.  debuild -S barfs with a fatal error "debsign failed".
[04:36] <ScottK> agent47a: debuild -S -us -uc
[04:39] <agent47a> looks like debuild is run under debian subdirectory but debdiff runs in the package root directory.  is that typical?
[04:40] <ScottK> debdiff diff debian package defined by two .dsc files you give it.
[04:40] <ScottK> It doesn't matter so much where you run it.
[05:09] <ScottK> Anyone got a patch system how to for Debhelper 7?
[05:11] <ScottK> OK.  I give.  I'm tired anyway.
[05:11] <ScottK> Good night all.
[05:11] <jmarsden> Goodnight ScottK
[05:13] <crimsun> ScottK: http://joey.kitenet.net/blog/entry/dh_implementation/
[05:13] <ScottK> crimsun: Looking.  Thanks.
[05:21] <crimsun> ScottK: sql-ledger is an interesting example if you're looking for integration with, say, quilt
[05:21] <ScottK> crimsun: Thanks.
[05:21]  * ScottK looks
[05:33] <carandraug> hi everyone! I'm making my first package so I'm following the instructions in the ubuntu wiki with the program hello. In one of the steps, they mention to remove the *.ex, readme.debian, dirs, docs and info files from the debian directory. They say that's because the program's not complicated but the files can be needed for some packages. How do I know whether I should or should not remove them?
[05:34] <hyperair> what are you packaging?
[05:35] <carandraug> hyperair: I plan on package rubyripper in the future for a PPA. For now, I'm experimenting with the program hello, which they recommend in the tutorial
[05:35] <carandraug> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
[05:35] <hyperair> i see
[05:35] <hyperair> okay, rubyripper doesn't have an init.d service right? so at least init.d.ex can be removed
[05:36] <hyperair> basically you have to know what each of the .ex files is for and figure out if the functionality is required in your pacakge
[05:36] <carandraug> hyperair: hmm.... can you give a me a link where I can read more about that, please?
[05:37] <hyperair> heheh i don't think i managed to find anything of that sort. i sort of guessed what each one is for
[05:37] <hyperair> usually the contents of the file tell you what it's for
[05:37] <hyperair> in some kind of comment or whatever
[05:38] <carandraug> hyperair: I see. I'll try to look inside the file then. Thanks
[05:38] <jmarsden> man dh and man all of the dh_ tools should help you learn about this too
[05:39] <hyperair> yeah that too
[05:39] <hyperair> but i didn't read the dh_ manpages until very recently
[07:00] <dholbach> good morning
[07:01] <iulian> G'morning Daniel.
[07:01] <dholbach> hiya iulian
[07:03] <nellery> hi dholbach
[07:03] <dholbach> hiya nellery
[07:04] <nellery> dholbach: thanks for bringing up the issue with the developer applications!
[07:05] <dholbach> nellery: we've been talking about it for a long time and I'm fairly happy with the proposal, I believe it will fix a lot of the issues that we see today
[07:05] <dholbach> I haven't dug into the discussion yet today
[07:07] <nellery> dholbach: it all looks good
[07:07] <nellery> my only concern is that applicants may not be able to make it to the meetings
[07:07] <nellery> due to time zone restraints
[07:08] <dholbach> nellery: the plan was to rotate times and have it every 14 days
[07:08] <dholbach> if that does not work out and there's very special requirements for meeting, I'm sure we can adjust with a one-off meeting or still discuss on the mailing list or something - we're going to be flexible
[07:08] <dholbach> but the majority will be able to make it, I think
[07:09] <nellery> dholbach: great, that would probably work out well.
[07:09] <nellery> Thanks again
[07:10] <dholbach> no worries
[07:14] <didrocks> morning everyone!
[07:15] <dholbach> hi didrocks
[07:46] <Hobbsee> dholbach: you'd be able to get quorum, while meeting at a different time?
[07:48] <dholbach> Hobbsee: quorum is a necessity
[07:49] <Hobbsee> dholbach: I realise that, but i'm asking if it's actually going to happen, if you're meeting at a non-european-friendly time.
[07:49] <Hobbsee> (although I realise that you'll mostly hold it in european timezones, but there will still be exceptions)
[07:49] <dholbach> we will need to make sure - the meeting does not make sense otherwise
[07:50] <Hobbsee> exactly
[07:50] <persia> Well, it mostly must be in a European-freindly timezone, because a majority of the current councillors are in Europe.  That said, there's 14-18 hours of Europe-freindly timezones.
[07:50] <Hobbsee> persia: indeed.
[07:50] <Hobbsee> persia: i'm just asking in the case of australians, or similar people
[07:51] <dholbach> for the special cases I'm sure we can work something out
[07:51] <Hobbsee> persia: which is going to be directly during european night, in a lot of cases (11pm - 10am local, perhaps)
[07:51] <persia> Trick is more balancing others: there are two, mostly diametrically opposed, slots that ought work for all MC members, although I'll admit neither is particularly ideal in Australia.
[07:51] <dholbach> as I said in the mail: we're going to be flexible, if there's no way around using the mailing list, we use it
[08:35] <jekil> please sameonecan review/advocate? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=4448
[08:45] <evocallaghan> Hi
[08:46] <evocallaghan> I'm having problems getting X to start on my distro I'm building, #xorg seems dead and #ubuntu is full of just end users. So sorry to ask in here as a last resort
[08:46] <evocallaghan> OK here goes,
[08:47] <evocallaghan> X fails to start saying it can't find fonts 'fixed'
[08:47] <evocallaghan> Now the fonts exist in /usr/X11/lib/X11/fonts just fine
[08:48] <evocallaghan> mkfontdir /usr/X11/lib/X11/fonts ; /usr/X11/bin/xset fp+ /usr/X11/lib/X11/fonts ; /usr/X11/bin/xset fp rehash
[08:48] <evocallaghan> However this fails saying that xset can't open a display
[08:48] <evocallaghan> Any ideas please?
[08:48] <quadrispro> anyone on bug 188561?
[08:50] <persia> evocallaghan, If you can replicate with Ubuntu, you're better off filing a bug.  If not, I'm not sure how we might help.
[08:50] <evocallaghan> Hmm, I would have though there would be some skilled people in the area of xorg here that is all
[08:54] <evocallaghan> persia: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=76046
[08:55] <evocallaghan> So it happens on ubuntu as well
[08:55] <evocallaghan> I will try to purge fonts like it says
[08:58] <evocallaghan> nope :(
[09:21] <agentblue9> i want to upgrade to the dev version from 8.10.  i'm still not sure how to do it ater looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/UsingDevelopmentReleases ..  any hints greatly appreciated.
[09:29] <persia> agentblue9, First off, thanks for testing, but expect things to break.
[09:30] <persia> Try running `update-manager --devel-release`
[09:30] <agentblue9> persia: thanks.  -d will also do, right?
[09:31] <persia> Probably.
[09:31] <agentblue9> persia: is it of any importance to do the 8.10 updates first before going to jaunty?  this is a fresh ubuntu 8.1 from cd.
[09:32] <hyperair> dosen't matter
[09:32] <agentblue9> hyperair: thanks!
[09:32] <hyperair> you're going to be upgrading past that anyway
[09:32] <hyperair> np
[09:32] <agentblue9> ic, i'm going to click the Install Updates button now.  ;)
[09:33] <hyperair> i think you should be clicking "Upgrade"
[09:33] <hyperair> at the top
[09:33] <hyperair> if you intend to upgrade to 9.04 that is
[09:33] <agentblue9> hyperair: ah!  you're right.
[09:34] <persia> agentblue9, I'd recommend doing the updates, in case someone already fixed an upgrade path issue, but it may not matter.
[09:34] <hyperair> persia: upgrade path issue?
[09:35] <persia> hyperair, Sometimes there's an issue upgrading a set of packages from one release to another.  Sometimes this can be fixed by an SRU.  Where possible, these are done.
[09:35] <persia> Most of the upgrade path testing assumes application of available updates before upgrade.
[09:35] <hyperair> i see
[09:36] <agentblue9> persia: hmmm... i've already clicked upgrade.  oh well
[09:36] <hyperair> you can always cancel
[09:36] <agentblue9> ah... it gives a chance to cancel now.
[09:36] <hyperair> it'll roll back the changes
[09:36] <agentblue9> so tempted to go forward.
[09:37] <hyperair> haha
[09:37] <stefanlsd> agentblue9: btw, have you read the release notes?
[09:37] <agentblue9> i think i went right past those.
[09:38] <stefanlsd> agentblue9: have a look here - http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/jaunty/alpha2
[09:38] <stefanlsd> agentblue9: known issues.  nvidia / ati may be a problem
[09:38] <agentblue9> stefanlsd: d'oh
[09:38] <agentblue9> i have a really old nvidia geforce2
[09:39] <persia> agentblue9, Doesn't likely matter that much.
[09:39] <stefanlsd> agentblue9: well, more specifically the propietry drivers may be a problem.  the opensource stuff should be ok, although you may not have accel
[09:40] <agentblue9> ic... then i'm not too worried.
[09:40] <hyperair> no accel means no compiz
[09:41] <hyperair> anyway is DRI2 getting into jaunty, or has it already gotten in?
[09:42] <hyperair> hmm looks like it's already in
[09:42] <agentblue9> hyperair: compiz with flash 9 makes my firefox grey-freeze randomly in hardy.
[09:44] <hyperair> pity.
[09:44] <hyperair> wait a sec
[09:44] <hyperair> are you upgrading to intrepid or jaunty?
[09:44] <agentblue9> hyperair: talking about a different system.
[09:44] <stefanlsd> -d must be jaunty
[09:44] <hyperair> yeah
[09:45] <agentblue9> upgrading from intrepid to jaunty.
[09:50] <agentblue9> i wonder if freenx will work with jaunty
[09:56] <mok0> hyperair, in codelite, what is the empty directory /usr/share/codelite/plugins/resources/ for?
[09:57] <hyperair> for plugin resources
[09:58] <mok0> hyperair: that are installed later?
[09:58] <hyperair> yes
[09:58] <mok0> hyperair: ok
[10:07] <mok0> hyperair: advocated
[10:09] <mok0> Oh, it'd be nice if dget would be called on a .dsc file when it's clicked in Firefox. Anyone know how to do that?
[10:11] <hyperair> no idea
[10:11] <hyperair> maybe a plugin
[10:11] <hyperair> heh
[10:12] <hyperair> should be functionality added to ubufox perhaps? =p
[10:12] <hyperair> mok0: thanks
[10:12] <hyperair> for advocating i mean
[10:12] <mok0> hyperair: Thanks for _your_ work! :-) Now you need one more advocate
[10:12] <hyperair> i'll wait for nhandler =)
[10:13] <hyperair> after two advocates come along, is there anything else?
[10:13] <directhex> mok0, dget's a bit commaand-liney for the console isn't it?
[10:13] <mok0> hyperair: no, usually the 2nd advocate uploads the NEW queue.
[10:14] <directhex> bah, for firefox
[10:14] <mok0> directhex: yeah I guess
[10:14] <hyperair> okay
[10:14] <directhex> mok0, if there were a gdebi-esque tool for dsc, then you could just associate the file type
[10:14] <mok0> hyperair: the archive-admin might reject it if issues are found
[10:14] <hyperair> hmm
[10:14] <hyperair> a GUI dget?
[10:14] <directhex> mok0, i'd knock one together in c#, but i suspect people would eat my kidneys
[10:14] <hyperair> heheh
[10:15] <mok0> directhex: I would :-P
[10:15] <directhex> hyperair, broadly useless, but yes, something to say "this is part of a source package, i'm getting the other bits, dawg, fo'shizzle"
[10:15] <mok0> directhex: All the gui needs to do is to ask for a place to put the pacakge
[10:15] <hyperair> mok0: don't you think a bash script + zenity would do?
[10:16] <mok0> hyperair: err, I don't know zenity...
[10:16] <hyperair> wait, dosen't dget only work on urls?
[10:16] <mok0> hyperair: yes
[10:16] <directhex> hm, true
[10:16] <hyperair> yeah so you can't associate a script with the filetype
[10:16] <directhex> okay, write an extension for it then. go go gadget xul!
[10:16] <hyperair> heh i have no idea how to use xul
[10:17] <mok0> The person writing such an extension would be a regular hero in the Debian/Ubuntu world...
[10:19] <hyperair> agreed
[10:23] <quadrispro> does anyone wanna have fun with a ffmpeg FTBFS? :D
[10:24] <quadrispro> bug #311180 , it's waiting for a sponsor
[10:25] <mok0> quadrispro: I'll take a look
[10:25] <quadrispro> thank you mok0
[10:26] <mok0> quadrispro: you are Allesio?
[10:26] <quadrispro> mok0: yes
[10:27] <mok0> quadrispro: you patched configure?
[10:27] <quadrispro> yes
[10:27] <mok0> quadrispro: why do you need to do that?
[10:28] <Laney> ffmpeg doesn't care for compatibility
[10:28] <mok0> quadrispro: it should be regenerated from configure.ac
[10:29] <quadrispro> mok0: ah right, I can prepare a new debdiff
[10:29] <mok0> quadrispro: of course that means editing debian/rules
[10:31] <quadrispro> mok0: thanks a lot, i'm workin on it :)
[10:42] <slytherin> geser: persia: Get ready for another circular build dependency problem . :-) - Enjoy the conversation here http://lists.debian.org/debian-java/2009/01/msg00001.html
[10:43] <mok0> apt really ought to detect circular dependencies and either ignore them or complain
[10:43] <directhex> yay, circular!
[10:43] <directhex> when in doubt, bootstrap-binary it & pray for forgiveness?
[10:45] <quadrispro> mok0: i have a question
[10:45] <mok0> quadrispro: go ahead
[10:46]  * directhex prepares his stock reply - "no, it shouldn't be purple; see a doctor"
[10:47] <quadrispro> I think setting --with-ffmpeg-h in debian/rules isn't very helpful, because in aclocal the search path contains ffmpeg/, and this isn't correct (the correct path for avformat.h is 'libavformat/')
[10:47] <quadrispro> ehm
[10:48] <quadrispro> mok0: s/aclocal/configure.ac
[10:48] <persia> slytherin, This is only a one-time thing, right?
[10:48] <quadrispro> sorry
[10:48] <persia> mok0, Sometimes you need them.  For example, gcc.
[10:48] <mok0> quadrispro: you've fixed it in configure.ac so you need to run autoreconf in rules
[10:49] <slytherin> persia: I hope. I haven't look through all the maven related packages. I am filing the sync requests as I build them successfully in pbuilder.
[10:49] <mok0> quadrispro: that should regenerate aclocal as well
[10:50] <persia> slytherin, If it's a one-time bootstrap for the package, it can usually be done by request.  If it's an each-time bootstrap, it needs re-engineering.
[10:50] <mok0> quadrispro: I don't think you need --with-ffmpeg because the header files are in the standard place
[10:50] <quadrispro> mok0: I didn't want mention aclocal, I talked about configure.ac :)
[10:50] <quadrispro> mok0: yes, it's right
[10:50] <slytherin> persia: I am tired of bootstrapping. I will see if I can built the package with some modification. Similar to what we did in case of jboss.
[10:50] <quadrispro> mok0: so, isn'it necessary change configure.ac?
[10:50] <quadrispro> is it?
[10:51] <mok0> quadrispro: I don't think so
[10:51] <persia> slytherin, Even better, of course :)
[10:51] <quadrispro> AC_CHECK_HEADER($FFMPEG_SEARCH_HEADERS/ffmpeg/avformat.h,
[10:51] <mok0> quadrispro: it's much easier if you can avoid it
[10:51] <slytherin> In that process I had a conversation with Torsten yesterday and found out that we need to sync some packages from experimental for the packages in unstable to build. :-) One of those package was not even uploaded to experimental till yesterday.
[10:51] <quadrispro> mok0: mmm, ok
[10:52] <mok0> quadrispro: unless of course configure stops the build
[10:53] <mok0> quadrispro: Going to lunch so I'll be afk for a while-
[10:53] <StevenK> quadrispro: They aren't under ffmpeg any more
[10:53] <quadrispro> configure stops the build
[10:53] <quadrispro> mok0: ah ok, bye ;)
[10:53] <mok0> StevenK: That's what he's fixing
[10:53] <StevenK> Which package?
[10:53] <StevenK> Since I worked a bunch on the ffmpeg stuff
[10:53] <quadrispro> StevenK: hi! mediatomb
[10:53] <StevenK> Hm. I didn't see that one on the list
[10:54] <quadrispro> StevenK: bug 311180
[10:54] <quadrispro> StevenK: I think it's needed change configure.ac, not debian/rules...
[10:55] <quadrispro> StevenK: the change to configure file has to be dropped from my patch, but it seems working fine
[10:56] <quadrispro> i'm working on a new debdiff
[10:56] <StevenK> quadrispro: I've not looked at mediatomb
[12:01] <stefanlsd> If we have a merge and the only change is debian fixed the ubuntu1 bug, do we always request the sync or just say its not required?
[12:03] <Laney> stefanlsd: I wouldn't at this point, it doesn't gain us anything (autosyncing is off anyway)
[12:03] <stefanlsd> Laney: kk. which point would we?
[12:04] <Laney> before DIF it would make sense as then we automatically benefit from Debian's changes
[12:05] <directhex> and assuming debian hasn't been frozen snice before intrepid
[12:05] <directhex> *cough*
[12:05] <stefanlsd> heh. cool. thx
[12:05] <Laney> stability release!
[12:06] <directhex> Laney, jauntiness and stability are opposites!
[12:06] <directhex> Laney, a jaunty hat might fall off at any moment!
[12:07]  * Laney walks the jaunty walk
[12:08] <directhex> hats can also be dapper
[12:08]  * directhex thinks ubuntu should switch to a hat naming scheme, since it seems to already be hat-friendly
[12:08]  * Laney -> lunch
[12:09] <directhex> unhelpfully, i find no hat types starting with "J"
[12:09]  * StevenK has too many hats
[12:11] <directhex> are any of them jaunty and/or dapper?
[12:20] <StevenK> directhex: I can go through them, if you want ...
[12:20] <directhex> nah, sounds like effort
[12:22] <StevenK> directhex: Meh, I point you at the teams I'm on in LP
[12:24] <directhex> hm, netbook remix. i know who to bug if my wife has issues, then
[12:25] <mok0> quadrispro: did StevenK fix the ffmpeg thing for you?
[12:26] <StevenK> Oh, drat
[12:26] <quadrispro> mok0: no, I'm working on it :)
[12:26] <mok0> quadrispro: ok great
[12:46] <maxb> Jaunty currently has mercurial 1.0.1, but 1.1.2, a new upstream feature release exists. Any opinions on whether it makes sense to try to get the new version into Jaunty at this point in the release cycle, or not?
[12:46] <persia> maxb, How stable is 1.1.2?  How much would it improve the experience for users?  Are there other packages affected that need updating?
[12:51] <maxb> Seems stable in my experience, and has already had a couple of point releases, so the inevitable teething troubles of a new feature branch should be worked out. There are new features in core, and there are extensions which require the new version. It's mostly compatible - rdepends would need testing, but likely wouldn't need updating.
[12:52] <jekil> please sameonecan review/advocate? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=4448
[12:53] <oojah> maxb: 1.0.2 is listed as having security fixes at least.
[12:56] <maxb> the security fixes have been backported by debian, but you have a good point, there are relevant bugfixes in 1.0.2 if 1.1.x is deemed too much of a change
[12:56] <mok0> jekil: This is really a bug fix
[12:57] <mok0> jekil: you should create a bug on LP and attach a debdiff to it
[12:57] <jekil> mok0: so, the updated packages don't use revu system?
[12:57] <mok0> jekil: no
[12:58] <jekil> mok0: ok, thanks
[12:58] <mok0> jekil: if you need help with the debdiff etc just ask here. Remember to close the bug in changelog
[12:59] <jekil> mok0: and after uploading the debdiff in the bug (thats already opened, i upload this to revu to close it) i must notify someone/somewhere?
[13:00] <mok0> jekil: you close it in changelog by having this construct: (LP: #xxxxxx)
[13:00] <jekil> mok0: all already done in the package uploaded to revu..
[13:00] <mok0> jekil: then you subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[13:00] <mok0> jekil: ah
[13:00] <jekil> mok0: ok, the subscription to ubuntu-universe-sponsors is the point that i miss
[13:01] <mok0> jekil: that will put it on u-u-s's Bug page
[13:01] <mr_pouit> StevenK: could you please close LP bugs when you fix them? :(
[13:01] <persia> jekil, Also, there's no benefit to pushing it to REVU if it's just an update to an existing package.
[13:01] <mok0> jekil: then it will be processed
[13:01] <StevenK> mr_pouit: Yeah, you keep filing them, and I keep not looking
[13:02] <mr_pouit> StevenK: no, I stop filing them :p
[13:02] <jekil> mok0, persia: thank you, i am sorry, i haven't understand the workflow, now it's ok, thanks
[13:03] <mok0> jekil: NP. The process could be described better
[13:03] <mok0> jekil: please archive the REVU upload then
[13:06] <jekil> mok0: yes, now i archive. thanks for your help
[13:10] <jekil> oh, if try to archive i get a taceback from revu http://pastebin.com/d77d27b79
[13:20] <mok0> jekil: Hmm. Worked for me
[13:20] <mok0> jekil: perhaps you don't have permission?
[13:21] <mok0> jekil: anyway, problem solved (although the revu software seems to have a bug)
[13:21] <anakron> HI all
[13:23] <anakron> Hi persia
[13:23] <persia> Hey anakron
[13:43] <AnAnt> Anyone knows what 8.04.2 will be released ?
[13:45] <persia> AnAnt, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule is the document to watch.
[13:45] <persia> subscribe to that, and you'll see when the various point release dates are confirmed.
[13:45] <AnAnt> thanks
[14:06] <quadrispro> devfil: ciao! bug 188561
[14:06] <devfil> quadrispro: ok
[14:10] <mok0> Any C++ fans around?
[14:10] <ScottK> mok0: I'd guess your odds are better on #kubuntu-devel.
[14:11] <mok0> ScottK, I can try there
[14:12] <DktrKranz> persia, probably I figured out that pbuilder issue I faced some days ago, it seems related to pkgbinarymangler (I use it in my default pbuilder configuration)
[14:13] <persia> DktrKranz, but pkgbinarymangler should be on the buildds too: is it just a conflict between pkgbinarymangler and some pbuilder internals?
[14:14] <DktrKranz> persia, probably. I'll try to reproduce two build logs, one without it and one with it, just to see difference. I'll try to debug something with pdebuild, then
[14:22] <quadrispro> thanks for the upload, devfil
[14:36] <opera> who can tell me how to join ubuntu-cn
[14:36] <opera>  who can give me a link
[14:36] <opera>  i can't find it in the list
[14:37] <savvas> opera: you mean #ubuntu-cn ?
[14:37] <opera> yes
[14:37] <opera> discuss ubuntu in chinese
[14:37] <savvas> opera: type: /join #ubuntu-cn
[14:38] <savvas> and press enter
[14:39] <opera> but ,every time i join it through other give a link ,and how can i join it  own?
 opera: type: /join #ubuntu-cn
[14:44] <opera> \
[14:45] <rhpot1991_laptop> any motu-srus around?
[14:56] <mok0>  /join #ubuntu-cn
[14:56] <mok0> heh
[14:58] <slytherin> !merge
[15:04] <bddebian> Heya gang
[15:12] <slytherin> any archive admins around?
[15:38] <soc> mok0: hi, i fixed the things you mentioned in the comments, would you like to review it again?
[15:38] <soc> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ttf-droid
[15:39] <mok0> soc: sure
[15:40] <mok0> soc: I took a look earlier, actually.
[15:41] <mok0> soc: what I wrote about the Vcs-* fields was not correct
[15:41] <mok0> soc: in debian/control
[15:41] <soc> yes, the next comment mentioned that
[15:41] <mok0> soc: I suggest you move these refs to README.Debian
[15:41] <soc> refs?
[15:41] <mok0> URLs
[15:42] <soc> atm it looks like that:
[15:42] <soc> Homepage: http://www.ascendercorp.com/pr/2007-11-12/
[15:42] <soc> Vcs-Browser: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=tree;f=data/fonts
[15:42] <soc> Vcs-Git: git://android.git.kernel.org/platform/frameworks/base.git
[15:42] <soc> is that right now?
[15:43] <mok0> soc: no, those fields are reserved for packaging repos
[15:43] <soc> packaging repos?
[15:43] <mok0> soc: yes, developers are starting to keep their packaging work in VCS
[15:43] <soc> ah ok
[15:44] <soc> remove all three?
[15:44] <soc> into README.Debian?
[15:44] <mok0> soc: no, only the VCS-* lines, but put the URLs in the README.Debian file
[15:44] <soc> ah ok
[15:45] <mok0> soc: I think the homepage field is ok
[15:45] <mok0> soc: another thing I wandered is: what is the debian/bug directory for?
[15:45] <soc> ok, i'll upload again
[15:46] <soc> oh, cool, i have really fast internet today
[15:46] <mok0> soc: debian/bug/presubj looks like info that should also be in README.Debian
[15:47] <soc> mok0: i think that is somehow used with reportbug
[15:47] <mok0> soc: ah
[15:49] <cody-somerville> dholbach, I have e-mails in the moderation queue for ubuntu-motu and motu-council I think
[15:50] <dholbach> cody-somerville: only one for ubuntu-motu
[15:50] <cody-somerville> ok, thanks
[15:50] <cody-somerville> Can you add that e-mail to auto accept?
[15:51] <dholbach> just listadmin'ed that mail through
[15:51] <dholbach> the next time I'll do it
[15:52] <dholbach> cody-somerville: thanks for giving that session about xubuntu
[15:55] <cody-somerville> dholbach, np
[15:55] <cody-somerville> thanks
[15:59] <savvas> Where do we place man pages? In debian/binaryname.8.man ?
[15:59] <vorian> savvas: yes, but no need for the .man part
[16:00] <savvas> ah great, thanks :)
[16:00] <vorian> no problemo
[16:03] <vorian> savvas: you will also need to use dh_installman in rules
[16:06] <savvas> I know vorian, I have it set in rules to cycle through all dh_ commands :)
[16:06] <vorian> ah, ok then :)
[16:16] <vorian> james_w: did you want to look at the sugar-hulahop merge?
[16:19] <mok0> soc: advocated
[16:24] <vorian> james_w: i'll leave it be for now
[16:26] <soc> mok0: thanks!
[16:35] <james_w> vorian: I've reviewed it, I just popped out to get lunch before testing
[16:35] <james_w> vorian: thanks for checking
[16:35] <vorian> no problem james_w :)
[16:36] <stefanlsd> james_w: do those libev changes seem sane?
[16:36] <soc> mhh, cloud someone advocate http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ttf-droid again?
[16:36] <james_w> stefanlsd: haven't had chance to look yet, sorry
[16:37] <soc> i fixed the optional things mok0 mentioned
[16:37] <stefanlsd> james_w: np. not sure who the libtool experts are to check...
[16:43] <james_w> stefanlsd: yeah, do you know why AC_CONFIG_MACRO_DIR et al were needed?
[16:43] <james_w> did it just bail out with AC_CONFIG_MACRO_DIR unset?
[16:46] <stefanlsd> james_w: trying again
[16:48] <stefanlsd> james_w: those options were given by the autoreconf tools
[16:50] <stefanlsd> james_w: it does build without it - but get this libtoolize: Consider adding `AC_CONFIG_MACRO_DIR([m4])' to configure.ac and libtoolize: rerunning libtoolize, to keep the correct libtool macros in-tree.
[16:50] <james_w> stefanlsd: hmm, yeah, "consider"
[16:51] <james_w> I think it looks good though, let me test etc.
[16:52] <stefanlsd> james_w: kk. tried without the mkdir m4 and it fails.  the autoreconf man page says it replaces the steps that we're being run.
[16:54] <james_w> stefanlsd: do you have a debian chroot around?
[17:00] <soc> pmjdebruijn: hi, could you advocate my package? mok0 advocated it, but i fixed the optional things he mentioned and reuploaded it again
[17:08] <stefanlsd> james_w: not atm. something i actually wanna get thou. will get one.
[17:10] <james_w> there's also a couple of "warning: ignoring return value of 'write', declared with attribute warn_unused_result" if you feel like patching
[17:15] <james_w> stefanlsd: patch works fine on Debian, please forward it there.
[17:18] <stefanlsd> james_w: thanks. will look at warning and forward to debian.
[17:19] <james_w> stefanlsd: uploaded, thanks for your contribution
[17:19] <stefanlsd> james_w: thanks for the help!
[17:26] <slytherin> any archive admins around?
[17:38] <pmjdebruijn> soc: sorry, I'm not a MOTU
[18:15] <soc> ah ok
[18:51] <RainCT> Uhm.. Which package do I need if I want to install KDE4 but without all the kubuntu-desktop stuff? (And, should I install from Intrepid or is there some more up2date PPA?)
[18:57] <JontheEchidna> kde-core should install a minimal installation
[18:57] <JontheEchidna> the latest stable release is in intrepid-updates
[18:57] <JontheEchidna> with KDE 4.2 betas being here: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-experimental/+archive
[19:00] <ogzy> hi i have a deb related question,  I had installed directfb libraries from the hardy repo, but now i want to install the new release and will either compile from source manually or create the deb file, first wuestion is, how can i install to the same path of the previous version, i think the configure script should be run with prefix /usr right?, second question do i have to recompile other programs that are compiled directfb enabled before after
[19:00] <ogzy> installing the new release
[19:00] <RainCT> JontheEchidna: thanks
[19:01] <RainCT> JontheEchidna: What do you recommend, intrepid-updates or the PPA? (/me wants to see cool stuff)
[19:01] <JontheEchidna> imo the betas are just as stable as the stable release
[19:01] <JontheEchidna> and in a few day's we'll have the first RC :D
[19:02] <RainCT> okay, I'll install the beta then
[19:06] <slicer> Hi. Will packages in debian experimental/unstable to automatically merged to Jaunty? .. If so, how often does that happen?
[19:08] <ScottK> slicer: Packages are automatically sync'ed from Unstable if there are no changes to the package in Ubuntu in the first part of the release cycle (we're past it for Jaunty).
[19:08] <ScottK> The last sync was ~25 December
[19:08] <ScottK> Packages with Ubuntu changes have to be manually merged.
[19:08] <ScottK> Packages from Experimental never get into Ubuntu automatically.
[19:10] <slicer> ScottK: Ok, since we're now past the first release cycle, does that mean I have to request a package sync? It fixes a "cant-install" bug report in the package. (The package being "mumble").
[19:10] <ScottK> slicer: yes.
[19:12] <jpds> slicer: There's a "requestsync" script in ubuntu-dev-tools to do just that (if you don't know).
[19:13] <slicer> jpds: I do, but it requires gpg signing, and I don't have my key here.
[19:14] <Laney> slicer: Not if you use --lp
[19:14] <jpds> slicer: There's an --lp flag which does not need gpg, it uses launchpadbugs and cookie file auth against Launchpad.
[19:14] <Laney> \o
[19:14] <slicer> Aha :) That I didn't know. Thanks!
[19:40] <POX> ScottK: I saw your name in python-storm's changelog, do you want to maintain it in Debian? (Ubuntu's Maintainer is set to a mailing list)
[19:41] <ScottK> POX: Not really.  I don't remember what I did to it, but it's not a particular interest of mine.
[19:41] <POX> or anyone wants to maintain it? I can sponsor (although I use SQLAlchemy only)
[19:41]  * directhex flogs a cpu on ebay
[19:41] <woody86> Can anyone help me out? I already setup a PGP with launchpad, but I've reinstalled Ubuntu on my comp, is there any way to get my PGP back on this comp, or do I have to just create a new one?
[19:41] <POX> +else
[19:41]  * ScottK thinks perhaps mok0 is interested in it, but he's not here right now.
[19:42] <Laney> woody86: Did you keep the private key?
[19:43] <woody86> Laney- I know it's not on this comp, let me check my main rig, brb
[19:48] <hyperair> does anybody know if the compiz fusion stackswitch plugin will enter ubuntu?
[19:53] <woody86> Laney-  I saved the output of when I made the PGP key, and it has the fingerprint and everything, but I'm not sure which part is the pgp key
[19:54] <woody86> Laney-  there's one part that says:
[19:54] <Laney> woody86: It starts with -----BEGIN PGP PRIVATE KEY BLOCK-----
[19:54] <woody86> Laney-  oh, the key block? yes I have that too
[19:55] <Laney> good, you can import that into gpg/seahorse
[19:55] <woody86> ok, thanks :) any easy way to do that?
[19:55] <Laney> file->import in seahorse should do it
[19:56] <woody86> ok, have to transfer those text files...
[20:12] <woody86> Laney-  wait, the only thing I have is the PGP Revoke file, and it's not letting me import that
[20:12] <Laney> not surprising
[20:13] <woody86> Laney-  now, I created a new PGP, how can I replace the one on LP with this new one?
[20:13] <Laney> yes
[20:14] <woody86> or is there an easier way to import my old one onto my camp?
[20:16] <jekil> i have fixed a bug, uploaded debdiff to bug report, and subribed ubuntu sponsor for universe to the bug (https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/obextool/+bug/133748), anythink alse? i must only wait now?
[20:24] <fabrice_sp_> jekil, don't put Fix commited as status. Better Confirmed
[20:26] <fabrice_sp_> also, mark the debdiff as patch
[20:27] <quadrispro> anyone on bug 311020?
[20:27] <fabrice_sp_> jekil, and unassign yourself
[20:27] <fabrice_sp_> and then wait
[20:27] <fabrice_sp_> :-)
[20:35] <maxb> Is there any easy way to find rdepends for a jaunty package if you don't have a jaunty install handy?
[20:41] <jekil> fabrice_sp: thanks
[20:41] <fabrice_sp> you're welcome ;-)
[20:43] <ScottK> maxb: If you have a Jaunty pbuilder, use pbuilder login and use apt-cache rdepends from there
[20:44] <fabrice_sp> maxb: or setup a chroot environnement
[20:46] <maxb> I should probably set up a jaunty pbuilder for later, true. (At the moment I was just wanting to check whether an NBS is depended on)
[20:57] <superm1> cody-somerville, rhpot1991_laptop has been trying to get an SRU through for mythexport for some time now, he's had my okay with the changes.
[20:57]  * cody-somerville nods.
[20:58] <cody-somerville> superm1, I worked with him earlier. I'm hoping we can get it approved ASAP.
[20:58] <superm1> cody-somerville, okay cool great.
[20:58] <cody-somerville> :)
[20:59] <slayton> is there anyway to tell if the diff.gz obtained by running apt-get source contains any changes besides the debian dir? like changes to the source and
[21:00] <directhex> filterdiff
[21:00] <directhex> and a cluebat for people not using a patchsys!
[21:02] <Laney> slayton: lsdiff -z foo.diff.gz
[21:03] <slayton> thanks!
[21:11] <pochu> nvidia-graphics-drivers-180 (180.22-0ubuntu1) jaunty; urgency=low
[21:11] <pochu> * New upstream version.  First "stable" driver in 180 series. (LP: #315169)
[21:11] <pochu> superm1: ^ is "stable" meant to be ironic? ;)
[21:11] <sebner> lol
[21:11] <pochu> hey sebner :)
[21:12] <superm1> pochu, it's supposed to draw emphasis at least :)
[21:13]  * sebner winks pochu
[21:14] <sebner> superm1: still not compatible with new xorg, right?
[21:17] <superm1> sebner, it works with the new xorg, but you need IgnoreABI still
[21:19] <soc> hanska: hi, could you review/advocate my package? i did some optional refinements and uploaded it again, so i lost mok0 advocation :-/
[21:19] <hanska> soc: err... I'm not a MOTU/core-dev/...
[21:19] <hanska> soc: I don't even use Ubuntu ^_^
[21:20] <soc> ah ok :-/
[21:20] <hanska> I could review your package though, and write my comment :)
[21:20] <soc> damn ... i only have one day, then i'm away for the whole week ...
[21:20] <soc> that would be nice of course
[21:21] <soc> i have 0 advocations again, so i can do reuploads as much as i want :-)
[21:22] <hanska> ok, url?
[21:22] <soc> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ttf-droid
[21:23] <hanska> soc: reviewing
[21:31] <slayton> what entry do I need to make in the foo.intsall file if if I want to rename a file after its compiled? I tried using changing "debian/tmp/usr/bin/foo" to "debian/tmp/usr/foo debian/tmp/usr/bar" but then when I run dpkg -c i see /usr/bin/bar/foo
[21:31] <ScottK> hanska: I think Bug 314843 is worth forwarding upstream, but a quick look didn't turn up an upstream bug tracker.
[21:32] <hanska> ScottK: yes, the "upstream bug tracker" is upstream's mailbox ;)
[21:32] <ScottK> hanska: Right.  I'm that way on stuff I do too.  Would you be up for forwarding it?
[21:32] <hanska> ScottK: sure, just a moment, I'm a bit busy right now
[21:33] <hanska> thank you for pinging me, though.
[21:33] <ScottK> hanska: No rush.
[21:35] <pochu> slayton: you can't with dh_install AFAIK.
[21:36] <slayton> pochu: what would be the proper way of trying to rename the file?
[21:36] <pochu> LIMITATIONS dh_install cannot rename files or directories, it can only install them with the names they already have into wherever you want in the package build tree.
[21:36] <pochu> ^ that's from the dh_install(1)
[21:36] <pochu> slayton: you an use mv in debian/rules
[21:37] <slayton> ok great I'll try that out
[21:42] <slayton> pochu: I  tried that and now I'm getting a missing seperator error
[21:42] <slayton> pochu: is there a specific place where I need to add the line? or do I need to use different syntax? I tried just adding the mv /src/foo /dest/bar
[21:46] <hanska> soc: done
[21:53] <pochu> slayton: you want something along "mv debian/tmp/usr/bin/foo debian/tmp/usr/sbin/foobar"
[21:54] <pochu> slayton: so relative paths
[21:54] <soc> hanska: ah ok
[21:54] <soc> thanks
[21:55] <soc> hanska: a) i will remove that forgotten file ...
[21:55] <soc> b) what's the difference between that ttf-droid.install file and the instructions in rules?
[21:55] <hanska> soc: about debian/bug/* ?
[21:56] <soc> c) i got told that i should rename install and defoma-hints to ttf-droid.install and ttf-droid.defoma-hints
[21:56] <soc> yes
[21:56] <soc> could i not just move this instruction from install to the rules?
[21:56] <hanska> soc: that's an useless suggestion -- it's just in case you add another binary package in future
[21:56] <soc> ah ok
[21:56] <hanska> soc: it would be better if you moved the lines in rules to the .install :)
[21:56] <soc> ah ok
[21:56] <hanska> soc: you could add something like
[21:57] <soc> how should that look then?
[21:57] <hanska> debian/bug/script  /usr/share/.../
[21:57] <hanska> debian/bug/presubj  /usr/share/.../
[21:57] <soc> i haven't really understood the different syntax between install and rules
[21:57] <hanska> install is called by dh_install
[21:57] <hanska> (check its manpage)
[21:57] <soc> ah ok
[21:57] <soc> so the rules should look like this?
[21:58] <soc> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
[21:58] <soc> install/ttf-droid::
[21:58] <soc> 	dh_installdefoma
[21:58] <soc> and the rest goes to install?
[21:58] <hanska> soc: yes, but you're using "-D" in the install lines, so you should ensure that the dirs get created first
[21:58] <hanska> (dh_install doesn't do that)
[21:59] <hanska> soc: you can then add a debian/dirs file with /usr/share/bug/ttf-droid/ inside, and stop
[21:59] <hanska> :)
[21:59] <hanska> soc: uhm, I suppose I wasn't that clear.
[21:59] <Laney> dh_install does create dirs
[22:00] <soc> mhhh there is no source.lintian-override on my system ...
[22:00] <soc> weird ...
[22:00] <hanska> Laney: thought it didn't
[22:00] <soc> only the right one, source.lintian-overrides
[22:00] <Laney> dirs is only for making empty directories
[22:00] <hanska> Laney: not fully true
[22:01] <hanska> Laney: however, are you sure'
[22:01] <hanska> let me try :P
[22:02] <hanska> Laney: \o/
[22:02] <hanska> Laney++
[22:02] <Laney> :>
[22:02] <soc> hanska: running debuild instead of debuild -S creates some files in the debian dir, should i delte them again?
[22:03] <hanska> Laney: maybe I was just remembering some old debhelper compatibility :)
[22:03] <soc> for instance ttf-droid.postinst.debhelper
[22:03] <hanska> soc: "debuild clean" is your friend
[22:03] <soc> and ttf-droid.prerm.debhelper
[22:04] <soc> http://pastebin.com/m5dd2f70c
[22:04] <soc> should i include that file?
[22:04] <soc> or does debuild include that file in the package automatically?
[22:05] <hanska> # Automatically added by dh_installdefoma
[22:05] <hanska> ;)
[22:05] <hanska> debuild clean should remove it.
[22:05] <hanska> then you just do "debuild"
[22:08] <soc> ok
[22:08] <soc> hanska: ok, thanks
[22:08] <soc> so what about that rules file now?
[22:09] <soc> should i move things again between rules and install or should i leave it as is?
[22:09] <hanska> soc: move the install lines in debian/ttf-droid.install
[22:09] <hanska> soc: just ensure that the script is +x
[22:10] <hanska> (and you'd have to do that in rules)
[22:10] <soc> install should have +x?
[22:10] <hanska> soc: "the script" --> debian/bug/script
[22:10] <hanska> :)
[22:10] <soc> ah ok
[22:10] <soc> mhh ok, so how should install look like?
[22:11] <soc> *.ttf		usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-droid/
[22:11] <soc> debian/bug/*	usr/share/bug/ttf-droid/
[22:11] <soc> would that be ok?
[22:11] <soc> and the directories are created automatically?
[22:12] <soc> and rules just:
[22:12] <soc> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
[22:12] <soc> install/ttf-droid::
[22:12] <soc> 	dh_installdefoma
[22:13] <soc> btw, should the orig.tar.gz include the debian diretory already?
[22:14] <soc> or is this added via the diff.gz?
[22:14] <maxb> No, the orig.tar.gz should include upstream's files only
[22:14] <soc> ah ok
[22:32] <tbielawa> greetings all
[22:35] <tbielawa> has anyone had problems with python distutils escaping fakeroot and attempting to write to the local file system? I haven't had any luck getting it to play nice
[22:35] <terli> I need help making users accept a license in my .deb file
[22:35] <terli> could I get a quick rundown on the required steps?
[22:36] <soc> terli: shouldn't you do that on the first start?
[22:36] <terli> no, I want them to click next, check the box, and install.
[22:36] <tbielawa> I believe you need to work with debconf http://www.fifi.org/doc/debconf-doc/tutorial.html
[22:36] <soc> stalling the installation process is considered by many people as annoying ...
[22:36] <terli> Well this package is more annoying when you have to accept the license on the command line
[22:37] <soc> terli: hu? now i couldn't follow you ...
[22:37] <terli> just be brief.
[22:38] <terli> I've got my DEBIAN/copywrite and DEBIAN/config file ready
[22:38] <terli> I mean /control
[22:38] <terli> solly
[22:38] <soc> terli: copyRIGHT i assume
[22:38] <terli> yes that too, it's been driving me nuts googling debian copywright and needing copyright
[22:39] <tbielawa> terli, check out the debconf link I pasted above. It's more involved than a brief IRC description could help you with. but fairly straightforard
[22:40] <soc> yes, english is not that nice language regarding the pronounciation ...
[22:40] <maxb> terli: The sun-java6 source would be the example to look at
[22:40] <terli> it's only 40 mb
[22:40] <terli> only going to take me 3 hours and piss my gamer siblings off stealing their bandwidthz
[22:41] <terli> I'll look for it.
[22:44] <soc> hanska: new upload: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ttf-droid
[22:44] <terli> https://jdk-distros.dev.java.net/svn/jdk-distros/trunk/linux/ubuntu/sun-java5/debian/rules << at least 1000 million lines
[22:46] <hanska> soc: that's fine to me
[22:46] <tbielawa> terli. the link I posted earlier is a straight run through. You should check it out
[22:46] <hanska> soc: however, you can make debian/rules even shorter
[22:46] <hanska> :)
[22:46] <soc> how?
[22:46] <hanska> soc: do you know/use debhelper 7?
[22:47] <terli> tbielawa: I don't know jack diddly, but I want a gtk screen to show the license
[22:47] <soc> yes, i use it in that package i guess
[22:47] <hanska> no, you're using CDBS
[22:47] <hanska> #!/usr/bin/make -f
[22:47] <hanska> %:
[22:47] <hanska>         dh $@
[22:47] <hanska> this is your debian/rules for dh7.
[22:47] <soc> mhh weird ...
[22:47] <hanska> try :P
[22:48] <soc> but i use dh_installdefoma for instance?
[22:48] <soc> and i include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
[22:48] <hanska> no
[22:48] <hanska> uhm, wait, seems like defoma isn't in the standard dh run
[22:49] <hanska> soc: stick with cdbs then :)
[22:49] <tbielawa> terli, I don't know if you're trying to write something for a personal project or to get into the repos. If you're aiming for the repos then use debconf, and when you use something like synaptic it will present you with a gui screen for your answer.
[22:49] <soc> ok
[22:49] <terli> personal
[22:49] <terli> its a proprietary deb file for all ubuntu revisions
[22:49] <terli> I'm packaging my own parallels installation
[22:49] <soc> hanska: do you know some motu who could review my package?
[22:50] <soc> i'm away after tomorrow and i would like to get it done before ...
[22:50] <terli> can I just get a decent example
[22:50] <hanska> soc: nope, sorry. I'm here just to help new contributors, and not really into Ubuntu at all :)
[22:50] <soc> ah k ...
[22:50] <tbielawa> The link provided has code examples included. Try going through it and then come back if you are cought up on any part of the process and we'll be able to help more :)
[22:51] <soc> terli: you can't rely on gtk, because that is not installed on every system ...
[22:51] <terli> its not any good.
[22:51] <terli> soc: I just want a gui.
[22:51] <terli> just a bloody gui
[22:51] <soc> then use debconf
[22:51] <soc> it will scale to the software available
[22:51] <tbielawa> exactly, soc
[22:52] <terli> I just want to take /DEBIAN/copyright and use it to present a single window with the copyright and a checkbox at the bottom correlating with a boolean variable indicating acceptance. the user has to scroll through it first.
[22:52] <soc> if you run it with the commandline, it will use the commandline, if you run it via synaptic, you will get an gtk box and so on
[22:52] <soc> debian/copyright is not meant for that
[22:52] <soc> copyright is no script
[22:53] <soc> it's just a single textfile
[22:53] <terli> copyright is just a text file!
[22:53] <terli> I want to use the text file as the source for the copyright, is just what i was saying.
[22:53] <soc> ah ok
[22:53] <tbielawa> terli, I don't think there's much more we can say. We've told you exactly what to do at this point.
[22:53] <terli> no, you've pointed me to the temple of debian
[22:53] <terli> *eyes cross*
[22:53] <hanska> ...
[22:54] <terli> *begins mumbling in ancient scripts as pidgin crashes*
[22:54] <soc> try to find a package which does what you want
[22:54] <soc> try maybe adobe reader or flash or something
[22:55] <tbielawa> so no suggestions for python distutils escaping fakeroot? daaang :(
[23:08] <ScottK> tbielawa: What exact problem are you having?
[23:09] <ScottK> Because no, I haven't had it.
[23:10] <tbielawa> ScottK, I'm running a typical "python setup.py install" as a build action. Building with -rfakeroot.
[23:10] <ScottK> OK.
[23:10] <tbielawa> I expected fakeroot to contain what happened to my debian/package/ folder, but it's attempting to still install an init script into my root filesystem.
[23:11] <tbielawa> (good think I don't package as root)
[23:11] <ScottK> Note that fakeroot doesn't make a chroot, it just fools the system about is it root.
[23:11] <ScottK> I think that's as expected.
[23:11] <james_w> tbielawa: fakeroot protects you, the setup.py is broken
[23:11] <james_w> tbielawa: if you pastebin it we can probably spot the problem
[23:12] <tbielawa> I can patch setup.py and remove the leading "/".
[23:12] <tbielawa> I'll pastebin. thanks for helping. brb
[23:12]  * ScottK needs to run off anyway.
[23:17] <tbielawa> I must run as well. ScottK, thanks for tipping me off to the subtility of fakeroot. Now I don't feel bad patching the setup.py
[23:18] <tbielawa> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/102418/ but there it is if anyone wants to dissect it :)
[23:20] <james_w> tbielawa: probably just the leading / as you say then
[23:20] <james_w> normally the issue is re-implementing part of install() and forgetting self.root
[23:20] <terli> *exits the temple of debian in long shoddy robes covered in scratches and torn in many places*
[23:20] <terli> ok,
[23:21] <terli> now how to get my package to reference the script for debconf?
[23:28] <terli> its just not working
[23:28] <terli> soc, I wrote my script, how do I make the preinst reference it
[23:37] <soc> terli: sorry, erli, i'm the wrong man, i started packaging 2 days ago :-)
[23:39] <soc> hi ... i could need someone to advocate my package ... http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ttf-droid
[23:42] <terli> well I started packaging today
 now how to get my package to reference the script for debconf?  <-- what does that mean?
[23:51] <terli> patented software needs a copyright.
[23:51] <terli> and I'm going to force it to display at installation time, since the user *is* using a deb file for it.
[23:52] <maxb> yes... you said that earlier
[23:52] <maxb> Be I don't understand the specifics of what you are asking about
[23:52] <terli> I've been told to use debconf for it
[23:52] <terli> it's not working at all.
[23:52] <terli> I wrote a .templates, a .config file, and attempted to alter preinst
[23:54] <savvas> have you set up the rules file terli ?
[23:55] <maxb> terli: have a look at a minimal example that I wrote for myself: http://jabberwock.vm.bytemark.co.uk/~maxb/debconfdemo/