[00:10] <BUGabundo> yofel: that old? http://www.onlinemba.com/blog/internet-history/
[00:11] <yofel> hehe
[00:11] <penguin42> BUGabundo: Grrrr - the picture for '76 is so wrong
[00:12] <BUGabundo> lol
[00:12] <penguin42> if you're going to have 'invented Ethernet, coaxial cables' in bold then wth have a picture of twisted pair?!
[00:14] <penguin42> and there's no mention of the bbn router
[02:19] <sudoer> hi all
[02:20] <sudoer> i just installed ubuntu 10.1 and the first thing I did was "apt-get  install build-essential " and it fails with E: Broken packages
[02:20] <sudoer> I get  build-essential: Depends: libc6-dev but it is not going to be installed or libc-dev
[02:23] <sdk> Heyas all.  Trying to get build-dep wine1.2 to install in Maverick but there is a recursion error between libstdc++ and gcc-base 4.1.2-27 (dependency requirement) and 4.1.2-29 (already installed).  Being a relative n00b, is there a way to tell apt/dpkg to ignore the dependency and install anyway; or is that a "Very Bad Thing (TM)"?
[02:25] <pasjr> Hello, I was wondering if any one else has a TOSHIBA A505D they are running 10.10 on?
[02:38] <sdk> Ok, am reading about a package ia32-apt-get, but it does not seem to be in Maveric, or Lucid for that matter.. getting from Karmic.  This should be interestig...
[02:39] <sdk> interesting, even...
[02:43] <sdk> If this fsckig works..
[02:43] <sdk> talk about a kludge..
[02:54] <sdk> Ype, didn't work.  Damn.
[02:56] <sdk> So, we're down to this.. anyone have an idea on how to get 32bit libfreetype on a amd64 system?
[03:43] <MTecknology> Is there any 10.10 cd that will fit on a 700mb disk?
[03:45] <BUGabundo> MTecknology: do you still burn media?
[03:45] <MTecknology> BUGabundo: :(
[03:46] <kklimonda> BUGabundo: I do actually :)
[03:46] <BUGabundo> FAIL
[03:47] <kklimonda> I've burned 2 audio cds today
[03:47] <BUGabundo> I use usb
[03:53] <DanaG> Say, is it possible to set up a system so it uses an aufs overlay if the write-protect switch is set, but uses real file system when write-protect is not set?
[04:05] <DanaG> ah, easier to implement: use user button plus switch-slide to switch from RO to RW.
[04:11] <DanaG> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/aufsRootFileSystemOnUsbFlash
[04:11] <DanaG> Say, what's the status of aufs in Maverick?
[04:28] <DanaG> argh, it's not in the l0 kernel.
[04:28] <DanaG> That's the third-party one.
[04:28] <DanaG> I don't remember what it was that was screwed up 35-15-omap.
[05:21] <MTecknology> I want to try 10.10 to see if it fixing my issues.. but I can't really afford a test drive and I also need to edit the grub config to test it..
[05:22] <MTecknology> If 10.10 doesn't already have the fixes I'll probably return this laptop while I still have time..
[05:22] <MTecknology> I'm pretty sure there's no side scroll support so I may do that anyway..
[06:03] <Jordan_U> MTecknology: I'm pretty sure that "side scroll" isn't something supported by the hardware as much as a sticker on the touchpad and software configuration :)
[06:03] <MTecknology> Jordan_U: you know what touchpad I have?
[06:04] <Jordan_U> MTecknology: No.
[06:04] <MTecknology> Jordan_U: idk what it's called - it seems the manufacturer decided it was an un needed luxury..
[06:04] <MTecknology> problem is that I gre accustomed to using it religiously
[06:04] <MTecknology> I have no scroll bars anywhere..
[06:04] <MTecknology> Jordan_U: You maybe know of a way to spoof it?
[06:05] <Jordan_U> MTecknology: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Touchpad_Synaptics#Xorg_method
[06:07] <MTecknology> Jordan_U: where would that go if I have no xorg.conf?
[06:08] <MTecknology> when did xorg.conf stop being there anyway? about 9.04 or something?
[06:08] <Jordan_U> MTecknology: You can create one, but I recommend actually making a /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-synaptics.conf
[06:08] <Jordan_U> MTecknology: http://andreascarpino.it/2010/04/xorg-1-8-synaptics-touchpad-configuration/
[06:08] <DanaG> No, watch out...
[06:08] <MTecknology> oooh
[06:08] <DanaG> if you make a conf.d in /etc/, it ignores absolutely everything in /usr/
[06:09] <DanaG> Last time I tried that, it left me with no usable keyboard!
[06:09] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/617619
[06:09] <MTecknology> DanaG: :(
[06:10] <MTecknology> DanaG: can I just copy what's in /usr there?
[06:10] <DanaG> Better to just put your own file in /usr.
[06:10] <abhinav> hi .. is the alpha3 64 bit stable enough for an upgrade (in general) ?
[06:10] <DanaG> It's not the right "style" of doing things, but it's least breakage-ey.
[06:10] <MTecknology> DanaG: where specifically would that go?
[06:10] <DanaG> Not sure if that's still true with Maverick.
[06:10] <DanaG> /usr/lib/X11/xorg.conf.d/
[06:11] <MTecknology> oh, there's only 2 files in there - 05-evdev.conf  10-synaptics.conf
[06:13] <MTecknology> DanaG: thanks for the warning - may have saved me a massive headache :)
[06:13] <MTecknology> Jordan_U: so, am I to create the serverlayout section?
[06:14] <MTecknology> Or should I add the input class from the second link
[06:14] <DanaG> One thing I always do: install SSH server.
[06:14] <DanaG> And if I have a box with serial, I like to set up serial console.
[06:15] <MTecknology> DanaG: I don't have a spare system :P
[06:15] <MTecknology> one and only
[06:16] <DanaG> ah, a netbook is good for use as spare -- about all I use it for is grabbing stuff from my main system.
[06:16] <Jordan_U> MTecknology: Smart phone?
[06:16] <MTecknology> I have a usb drive with systemrescuecd on it somewhere
[06:16] <MTecknology> Jordan_U: maybe if I can afford it someday
[06:17] <MTecknology> Things like amazing breakage bother me too little...
[06:17] <DanaG> When you factor in the data plan OR the fully-unlocked price, they can cost more than some netbooks.
[06:17]  * Jordan_U has about the dumbest phone available, can't even download backgrounds / ringtones.
[06:18] <DanaG> You ever try BitPim?
[06:18] <DanaG> If it's LG something-or-other, or such.
[06:19] <MTecknology> well - I'll be back (hoping)
[06:19] <MTecknology> If it breaks I'll probably just go to sleep
[06:19] <DanaG> oh, and remember:
[06:19] <MTecknology> If I don't come back, Jordan_U: DanaG: thanks :D
[06:19] <MTecknology> hm?
[06:19] <DanaG> "text" stops gdm from loading without going all the way to "single".
[06:20] <DanaG> argh, is ports.ubuntu.com down?
[06:20] <Jordan_U> MTecknology: You're welcome.
[06:20] <DanaG> no, it's only the chroot.
[06:21] <MTecknology> now to test this...
[06:21] <MTecknology> vim
[06:22] <MTecknology> nope
[06:22] <Jordan_U> MTecknology: Have you logged out and in again to restart X?
[06:23] <DanaG> weird.. ext3 ignores read-only flag of card!
[06:23] <MTecknology> I get all the way to the edge of the touchpad and it's like I'm just moving around in the middle of it
[06:23] <MTecknology> Jordan_U: reboot
[06:24] <MTecknology> woah! new ubuntu pastebin
[06:24] <Jordan_U> DanaG: If you're talking about the small switch on many flash cards, I think that's actually controlled by the firmware on the card itself.
[06:24] <MTecknology> shiny
[06:24] <MTecknology> http://paste.ubuntu.com/481290/ <- this is what I have now
[06:24] <DanaG> No, I think it's like the old floppies -- it's up to the reader device.
[06:25] <DanaG> And what's weird is that mmcblk0p1 (vfat) gets read-only, but mmcblk0p2 still can write!
[06:25] <MTecknology> Did I do anything dumb with that?
[06:25] <Jordan_U> DanaG: There is certainly enough logic in the card itself to do it, all of the wear leveling / block device emulation is done in that tiny card itself.
[06:26] <DanaG> This one is a micro to fullsize adapter.
[06:26] <MTecknology> GSynaptics couldn't initialize.
[06:26] <MTecknology> You have to set 'SHMConfig' 'true' in xorg.conf or XF86Config to use GSynaptics
[06:26] <DanaG> I had another such adapter break, and it's just a bit of plastic sliding around in another bit of plastic.
[06:26] <DanaG> Yeah, they say you don't need shmconfig... bull!
[06:26] <MTecknology> apparently it didn't read that config..
[06:26] <DanaG> You still need it for synclient -m!
[06:26] <MTecknology> DanaG: I have that in the config though
[06:26] <DanaG> If it's a security risk, then fine, make it require sudo!
[06:27] <DanaG> But claiming we "don't need SHMConfig" is a fallacy.
[06:28] <MTecknology> oh.. I'm also in the wrong channel
[06:28] <MTecknology> This is 10.04 - my work system is 10.10
[06:28] <DanaG> oh yeah, and if you just edited the stock one, you should make a copy of it.
[06:29] <MTecknology> DanaG: I copied what was in /usr/lib/X11/xorg.conf.d/ to /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/
[06:29] <MTecknology> then I changed the file
[06:29] <MTecknology> DanaG: I don't think xorg is using that config section though..
[06:30] <MTecknology> maybe Identifier "touchpad catchall"
[06:33] <MTecknology> nope..
[06:35] <MTecknology> You guys have any other ideas?
[06:38] <MTecknology> Jordan_U: Do I need to add the ServerLayout and Module sections?
[06:39] <MTecknology> HOw do I know if my touchpad is even synaptics?
[06:43] <ziroday> Hi, anyone seen any bugs regarding laptop wireless toggle switches no longer working?
[07:09] <eagles0513875> hey guys
[07:34] <ddecator> anyone have skype working? i just did a fresh install of 10.10 and skype isn't in the partner repo and when i download the deb it won't install
[07:36] <abhinav> ddecator: what does it complain about
[07:37] <ddecator> abhinav: let me get the error again a sec
[07:39] <ddecator> "dpkg: unable to read filedescriptor flags for <package status and progress file descriptor>: Bad file descriptor"
[07:40] <ddecator> that's using the deb from skype's site
[07:44] <ddecator> i'm also getting complaints when i run "sudo apt-get update" about my PPAs, but i don't think that's related
[07:47] <ddecator> ...any ideas?
[07:51] <abhinav> ddecator: I just started the upgrade, so can't test it out now.. but does the same happen for other packages also ?
[07:53] <ddecator> abhinav: not yet, haven't run into any other issues (other than handbrake not being available)
[07:54] <ddecator> and it gets a 404 every time it tries to connect to the PPA server for updates but i'm guessing that's a temporary server issue
[07:54] <abhinav> ddecator: ok.. the most likely cause is unmet dependencies, but that clearly doesn't seem to be the case here. Could you try installing the package using gdebi ?
[07:54] <abhinav> ddecator: 404 could be because the PPA has been changed to point to maverick, which is not yet created ?
[07:55] <abhinav> ddecator: you might need to change it back to lucid/whatever your previous release was
[07:55] <abhinav> ddecator: just checked.. you have a fresh install. So you didn't have anything earlier. So you can try changing the source entry to lucid
[07:56] <ddecator> abhinav: it's using gdebi for the deb install, and yah i need to check the ppas to see if they have a maverick download available still since that could be the issue
[07:57] <ddecator> and i checked that there isn't a missing dependency (based on what the skype site says is needed)
[08:06] <ddecator> anyone familiar with "N: Ignoring file 'ubuntu-mozilla-daily-ppa-maverick.list.save' in directory '/etc/apt/sources.list.d/' as it has an invalid filename extension"
[08:06] <ddecator> i'm getting that for every PPA entry i have, no matter what
[08:09] <ddecator> i'm guessing the .save files aren't supposed to be in there because i removed them and it's fine now..
[08:10] <ddecator> but they show up whenever i edit my sources, so wth
[08:18] <ddecator> alright, so skype installed from the deb just fine when i opened it with the software center for w/e reason, so that problem is solved
[08:44] <abhinav> ddecator: the save files are backup. shouldnt affect anything
[08:45] <abhinav> ddecator: you shouldn
[08:45] <abhinav> ddecator: you shouldn't remove them, in case you want to revert back :) any case, no major harm done
[08:46] <ddecator> abhinav: it's bug 611925
[08:47] <abhinav> ddecator: ok.. is yours an upgrade, or a fresh install ?
[08:48] <ddecator> abhinav: fresh
[12:34] <sinurge> apt-get  is working extremly slow anyone else facing slow apt-get
[12:49] <dupondje> sinurge: what is slow ? the downloading or ?
[12:51] <sinurge> dupondje, yup the downloading of vlc
[12:52] <dupondje> then you need a better mirror :)
[12:54] <sinurge> lol i guesssed as much i was just thnking there might be another issue or something
[13:24] <Volkodav> Xorg is eating up to 45 % CPU averaging around 30% on latest nvidia 256.44 ? Am I alone on this ?
[13:26] <abhinav> I upgraded to Alpha3 from a 10.04 installation with nvidia, and the X server is now broken. Is this a known issue ?
[13:31] <Volkodav> abhinav yes
[13:32] <abhinav> Volkodav: looks like this is bug 616023 that I am hitting.. trying out the options there
[13:32] <Volkodav> You need to add a line to Xorg to fix to Section "Server Layout"  Option	   "IgnoreABI"	 "true"
[13:32] <Volkodav> and you will be ok
[13:42] <lamalex> Hey, i'm running maverick but I'd like to mount my home drive from lucid. unfortunately it's encrypted. How do I get access to my files? Anyone know?
[13:54] <abhinav> Volkodav: thanks.. trying the same
[13:56] <abhinav> lamalex: You mean the home directory was encrypted earlier also ?
[13:56] <abhinav> lamalex: what encryption are you talking about ? If you just upgraded on the same machine, that shouldn't affect your access to the home directory
[13:56] <lamalex> abhinav, two partitions
[13:57] <lamalex> want to access data on other partition which is lucid
[13:57] <lamalex> i'm doing ecryptfs-mount-private but it keeps telling me ERROR: Encrypted private directory is not setup properly
[13:58] <abhinav> lamalex: So you installed maverick on a new partition
[13:58] <lamalex> yes
[13:59] <abhinav> lamalex: ok .. and the home in this new partition is obviously different from the one in the lucid partition. So you probably need to set up the ecryptfs thing again
[14:00] <abhinav> Volkodav: the steps worked fine. Thanks !
[14:00] <Volkodav> cool
[14:01] <lamalex> abhinav, huh? what would i need to set up ecryptfs again?
[14:01] <lamalex> s/what/why
[14:02] <lamalex> Let me paint the full picture of what's happening- I'm not sure there'a clear understanding of my problem
[14:04] <lamalex> I just installed maverick to a new partition to test it out, make sure all my stuff works, etc. My old and main system is lucid, which is in the other partition. My lucid set up has an encrypted home. Now I'm in maverick and there are files I want to get from lucid. My partition is mounted, and I can get into home, but I can't get to the files because of encryption. I just need to unlock them
[14:04] <lamalex> but I don't know how to unlock them
[14:07] <abhinav> lamalex: and your maverick home is separate from your lucid home right ?
[14:07] <lamalex> yes, the two have nothing in common
[14:07] <lamalex> (well, swap)
[14:09] <abhinav> lamalex: right .. so you need to "mount" this lucid home, which is encrypted, by providing keys etc. are you doing that from within maverick ?
[14:10] <lamalex> abhinav, I'm here asking how to do that
[14:10] <sinurge> lamalex, pls check this link https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EncryptedPrivateDirectory
[14:11] <abhinav> ok .. :) this page explains the details .. for your maverick OS, the home on lucid can be seen as a Private encrypted directory. Just follow the instructions here :  http://tombuntu.com/index.php/2008/08/07/create-an-encrypted-private-directory-with-ecryptfs/
[14:12] <lamalex> thanks
[14:12] <lamalex> ill let you know how it works out
[14:12] <sinurge> lamalex, also imo ths is not a maverick issue itself. if you do not get a solution here you might want to get into the #ubuntu channel for more general help on home directory encryption
[14:16] <lamalex> yeah, didn't work
[14:16] <lamalex> mouted at Private, but didn't unlock my files
[14:20] <abhinav> lamalex: while mounting you had to provide passphrase, etc and that succeeded, right ?
[14:21] <lamalex> appeared to
[14:22] <lamalex> but all it shows me are two .desktop files telling me it's encrypted
[14:54] <lamalex> Is there a problem with source packages at the moment?
[14:54] <lamalex> aptitude build-dep isn't working for me, it can't find the source packages for anything
[15:34] <bcurtiswx> anyone in here running an up to date maverick on a laptop?
[15:36] <Dink> bcurtiswx, I am but it is on a netbook
[15:37] <bcurtiswx> Dink: my gnome-power-manager keeps crashing, but i just want to verify you see a battery icon
[15:37] <Dink> I do
[15:38] <Dink> The only icon that comes and goes, mostly goes is work
[15:38] <Dink> network*
[15:38] <bcurtiswx> OK
[15:38] <Dink> I had the power icon issue a while back it seems stable right now
[15:38] <bcurtiswx> can i restart the power manager through /etc/init.d?
[15:39] <Dink> don't think so
[15:40] <Dink> you can probably send it a HUP signal
[15:41] <Dink> and select it from the preference menu or what not
[15:41] <shadeslayer> me
[15:41] <shadeslayer> oh wait
[15:41] <shadeslayer> i have kubuntu :
[15:41] <shadeslayer> ^_^
[15:42] <bcurtiswx> hmm
[15:49] <mistrynitesh> testing kubuntu maverick livecd on virtualbox but it freezes after login splash screen, is there any way I can pin point the problem?
[15:49] <abhinav> mistrynitesh: try recovery mode, remove "splash" from the boot options
[15:50] <mistrynitesh> in a moment
[15:55] <mistrynitesh> ok, now i get the messages
[15:56] <mistrynitesh> last one says: bootchart post-stop process terminated with status 137
[15:57] <mistrynitesh> a few prior to that say - Out of memory: kill process (blah blah)
[15:58] <penguin42> mistrynitesh: How much RAM have you given it ?
[15:59] <mistrynitesh> 384 mb, my total memory is 1gb
[15:59] <penguin42> I suspect that is too little
[16:01] <mistrynitesh> penguin42: how much is min requirement?
[16:01] <mistrynitesh> vbox allows me to put just about 50% of total memory
[16:01] <penguin42> mistrynitesh: I think 512MB should have a good chance; 384 is probably too close for the graphical installer
[16:02] <penguin42> mistrynitesh: In the out of memory message does it talk about ureadahead?
[16:03] <mistrynitesh> penguin42: no, it talks about rsyslogd, hald and bootchart
[16:03] <penguin42> mistrynitesh: Try it at 512 it should work
[16:03] <mistrynitesh> trying, just a moment
[16:10] <mistrynitesh> still no show
[16:11] <penguin42> still out-of-memorying ?
[16:11] <mistrynitesh> no messages this time
[16:11] <mistrynitesh> just a blank screen with pointer
[16:13] <penguin42> odd
[16:13] <penguin42> that should work
[16:14] <mistrynitesh> guess i will write it on a cd and run on the system itself
[16:31] <soee> hi iv downloaded MM a3 64bit version and tried to run it from USB, but i get this error: Unknown keyword in configuration file
[16:31] <soee> any solutions?
[16:32] <penguin42> yeh that's a common one
[16:32] <penguin42> bug 608382
[16:32] <penguin42> soee: Somewhere in there is a workaround; I think it's you have to eremove the keyword ui from a file
[16:33] <soee> penguin42, and waht @ using USB installer under windows ?
[16:33] <penguin42> I don't know about Windows
[16:33] <soee> ok ill try with this ui
[16:53] <Xase> The new live USB installer is looking great... running the live usb as we speak actually. I have a feeling this release will make it really easier for users to switch to ubuntu. Anyways... had a question. I've ran a couple of different installs of alpha 3 over the last few days, and I noticed something. Sometimes the bootsplash works flawlessly for some installs, and for other installs it blacks out and shows terminal output instead.
[16:53] <Xase> Known bug?
[17:24] <wechat> Hello everybody! I usually have this annoying bug. While I'm updating at the moment Generating grub.cfg ... after finding all the images *grub-mkconfig* is <hanging on>! I've got to press Ctrl+Z (Ctrl+C doesn't work) and after sudo pkill grub-mkconfig. There is an example: http://paste.uuntu.com/481496/ .
[17:25] <penguin42> wechat: I wonder if it's trying to access a storage device of sometype that isn't responding
[17:25] <penguin42> wechat: You might like to run a dmesg as it's happening
[17:28] <wechat> penguin42: I don't see something useful in dmesg. And I allways have /sda3 mounted which I allways open to listen to music and so on.
[17:29]  * wechat /dev/sda3
[17:29] <penguin42> hmm odd
[17:29] <penguin42> well, it's certainly one for  abug report
[17:29] <soee> got another problem with running MM a3, after installation from USB iv got this error: the symbol `grub_xputs` not found any idea how to fix this (ah and the grub rescue > cmd line appears)
[17:33] <wechat> penguin42: You really ? The problem maybe that I was playing with  /etc/grub.d/40_custom to load another distros without CDs.
[17:35] <wechat> penguin42: ok I really begin to making my mind to write a bug report.
[17:35] <penguin42> wechat: Well, it shouldn't hand - however you're right if you have put something weird in /etc/grub.d then it could
[17:38] <wechat> penguin42: Yeah, I even edited /boot/grub/grub.cfg. I have for now to solve the problem on my own.
[17:57] <wechat> !ping
[18:09] <sinurge> wechat, can you remove the changes you made to grub.cfg in the 40 sectiona and then check
[18:12] <wechat> sinurge: I did. I even installed grub2 again. Nothing changed. But the system is working and this bug is only annoying but not a problem for everyday life.
[18:13] <sinurge> strange,
[18:15] <sinurge> wechat, give it sometime and let it run, eventually it will throw an error and keep a track to dmesg should throw something
[18:27] <wechat> sinurge: I executed sudo update-grub. And it is <hanging on> right now. There is output of dmesg http://paste.ubuntu.com/481530/ .  I pressed Ctrl+Z a minute ago. There is a new dmesg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/481531/ .
[18:35] <BUGabundo> soooo
[18:35] <BUGabundo> I just ordered a new 2TB WD and a kingston SSD 64GB for this laptop
[18:36] <BUGabundo> thinking of reformating and using btrfs
[18:36] <BUGabundo> but I've seen a few bugs with it
[18:36] <BUGabundo> can anyone put me in the loop ?
[18:39] <nigelb> for(i=0;i!= -1; i++) { BUGabundo }
[18:39] <nigelb> there, now you're in the loop :p
[18:39] <wechat> lol
[18:39]  * BUGabundo /kick nigelb smartpants
[18:39] <nigelb> heh
[18:40] <nigelb> couldn't resist :D
[18:40] <wechat> humanity
[18:40] <BUGabundo> it would be much better if you could really reply to my question
[18:40] <nigelb> If I did I would :)
[18:45] <wechat> When will be Compiz effects repaired?
[18:46] <BUGabundo> its not ?
[18:46] <BUGabundo> its working fine for me
[18:46]  * BUGabundo does a cube
[18:46] <wechat> will try now but didn't work last weeks
[18:49]  * wechat Yeah, I've got them: some flashes, apearings and disapearings, "couldn't turn the effects on". XD
[18:54] <CryWolf> Is there a guide for compiling a new kernel based on the current Ubuntu one?  I want to try to get Toshiba hardware support working on my laptop.
[18:55] <CryWolf> I tried searching the wiki for "kernel" but got a 500
[18:56] <Umeaboy> Hi!
[18:57] <magicianlord> hi
[18:57] <wechat> Zdravstvuite!
[18:58] <Umeaboy> I just installed Maverick vitually on my laptop & I see this problem when I have just recently updated the database: http://www.geting.se/viewimage/image/258778-Problem_i_update-manager.png
[18:58] <Umeaboy> It's in Swedish since I'm from Sweden.
[18:59] <Umeaboy> Any way to fix this?
[18:59] <Umeaboy> Besides switching language.
[19:00] <wechat> Umeaboy: You've better ask Linus too. He knows Swedesh.
[19:01] <Umeaboy> Linux isn't here.
[19:01] <Umeaboy> Linus
[19:03] <Umeaboy> wechat: ^^
[19:04] <wechat> Linus is everywhere http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0bjun7h5zA I'm Linux Commercial
[19:04] <magicianlord> how old is linus
[19:05] <magicianlord> what's gonna happen to linux when he's gone
[19:05] <wechat> Umeaboy: you can switch your system to english repeat again and give us the photo
[19:09] <wechat> Umeaboy: or you can always /join #ubuntu-se
[19:27] <sinurge> wechat, i didnt see any issue, am not able to help sorry
[19:29] <wechat> sinurge: ok it's working well anyway with this issue
[19:42] <CryWolf> Well, I've found that I don't have hardware support because Toshiba is now using a new BIOS which I've never heard of before: Insyde.  Glad I tried before filing a bug.
[19:47] <penguin42> CryWolf: Oh, never heard of them either
[19:47] <penguin42> CryWolf: My Tosh uses a Phoenix bios
[19:47] <penguin42> CryWolf: So, what does the BIOS do to it?
[19:54] <CryWolf> penguin42: No one has developed an interface for it.  So the FN key doesn't work, can't turn wireless on and off, adjust brightness, etc.
[19:55] <CryWolf> Fortunately, things like lock, suspend, hibernate, etc are easy to assign keys to.  And the volume wheel does work.
[19:55] <penguin42> CryWolf: ah ok; I think most of the things that you see called 'toshiba tools'  are for pretty old ones
[19:56] <penguin42> CryWolf: I've never managed to get anything out of the media keys on mine
[19:57] <CryWolf> At least ACPI works with the current kernel.
[19:58] <CryWolf> I have another system (a desktop) where media keys are just mapped to various amixer commands.
[19:58] <penguin42> nod
[19:58] <penguin42> yeh, I don't think I've ever seen the kernel get told anything at all by this hardware
[19:59] <CryWolf> The power management can dim the screen.  There has to be a command that lets me do it, but I haven't found it yet.
[19:59] <CryWolf> Turning wireless on and off is probably a lost cause, though.
[19:59] <penguin42> CryWolf: Have a look in /sys/class/backlight/acpi_video0
[20:00] <penguin42> there may be a brightness
[20:01] <penguin42> CryWolf: As for wireless, try /sys/class/wlan0/phy80211/rfkill0 - mine has a hard/soft files
[20:04] <CryWolf> Sweet.  Adjusting brightness works.  Next challenge on that will be assigning hotkeys and allowing a regular user to change it.
[20:05] <CryWolf> I don't have /sys/class/wlan0 but I'll keep hunting around in there.
[20:05] <penguin42> CryWolf: Oops, /sys/class/net/wlan0
[20:07] <CryWolf> There it is.  No phy, but I'll see what I can find.
[20:15] <Umeaboy> wechat: This is the first error: http://www.geting.se/viewimage/image/258824-First_error_in_Update-manager.png
[20:15] <Umeaboy> This is the second problem, wechat: http://www.geting.se/viewimage/image/258825-Second_problem_in_Update-manager.png
[20:16] <penguin42> it's not letting me update libgirepository1.0-0 either
[20:16] <wechat> Umeaboy: i had the same :)
[20:17] <wechat> Umeaboy: what was the command? update-manager?
[20:20] <wechat> http://paste.ubuntu.com/481574/  -- this is my -- dpkg -s libgirepository1.0-0
[20:20] <CryWolf> penguin42: Alas, no wireless controls available.  I can still set some power management with iwconfig, though.  And at least now I know how to change the monitor brightness.  :)
[20:22] <penguin42> CryWolf: No /sys/class/rfkill either?
[20:23] <CryWolf> penguin42: Directory is there, but empty
[20:23] <penguin42> CryWolf: Hohum
[20:25] <CryWolf> penguin42: At this point, it's a minor issue.  I do appreciate the help.
[20:25] <penguin42> CryWolf: No problem
[20:27] <CryWolf> I wonder what the difference between libgirepository1.0-0 and libgirepository1.0-1 is.  I have latter on my system, which I updated earlier today.
[20:27] <CryWolf> I've been running maverick for only a couple of weeks, so that might have made a difference.
[20:27] <penguin42> CryWolf: Just a version difference I guess
[20:28] <Umeaboy> wechat: Huh? I went via System ->Administration ->Update manager
[20:28] <penguin42> actually, I've just removed libgirepository1.0-0 from both my machines and it's not removed anything else
[20:31] <CryWolf> Looking at the apt-cache info, looks like 1.0-1 was moved from devel to libs, is a little smaller, and is part of several tasks.  And I'm guessing the "Replaces" line means you should just be able to install the new one overtop the old.
[20:33] <ikonia> 1/window 37
[20:33] <ikonia> oops
[20:34]  * BUGabundo covers ikonia
[20:34] <BUGabundo> you have over 37 chats?
[20:34] <BUGabundo> o:O
[20:34] <BUGabundo> mew why does google put a cron in their debs?
[20:35] <BUGabundo> phone home isn't enough ?
[20:35] <duffydack> BUGabundo, they do???
[20:36] <BUGabundo> look at /etc/cron.daily/google-talkplugin
[20:36] <duffydack> I just installed that yesterday as well
[20:37] <BUGabundo> I don't get how ppl get this to work
[20:37] <BUGabundo> two pcs and none even start /opt/google/talkplugin/GoogleTalkPlugin
[20:37] <BUGabundo> :(
[20:37] <duffydack> isnt updating with that repo configured enough to update the plugin..
[20:39] <BUGabundo> I know!
[20:39] <BUGabundo> FAIL
[20:43] <duffydack> slowly trying to turn ubuntu into gOS :)
[20:43] <duffydack> you`ll run a terminal and get google ads
[20:43] <duffydack> lol
[20:44] <BUGabundo> LOL
[20:44] <BUGabundo> when my SSD come, ill dual boot MM and chromiumOS
[20:44] <BUGabundo> just need to know how to set up BTRFS
[20:47] <wechat> Umeaboy: sorry I see . I always do in that way http://paste.ubuntu.com/481581/
[20:48] <BUGabundo> bbl
[20:51] <penguin42> damn, I could swear I reported that bug
[20:51] <penguin42> hmm
[21:57] <penguin42> anyone else seeing a pause during boot of about 30 seconds?
[22:14] <wechat> penguin42: Sometimes i saw a black screen Before grub. I even thought it wouldn't load at all.
[22:14] <moxypen> hi people. Just updated from 10.04 LTS to 10.10 via Update, and now I cant boot into the GUI (I CAN boot into the shell though...) - I've got a Radeon 5750 but I'm not sure how to fix the xorg
[22:14] <wechat> penguin42: 10-15 seconds
[22:14] <CarlFK> how do I install openoffice?
[22:14] <wechat> CarlFK: aptitude search openoffice
[22:14] <penguin42> moxypen: You might have bug 605614
[22:15] <moxypen> wonderful :)
[22:15] <CarlFK> lol The program 'aptitude' is currently not installed.  You can install it by typing...
[22:15] <penguin42> moxypen: Get into grub and edit the line that says   set gfxmode=keep      to    set gfxmode=text and see if it helps
[22:15] <wechat> CarlFK: instal *on* what?
[22:15] <wechat> CarlFK: soory i'm from 9.10
[22:15] <CarlFK> whatever 10.10 + dist-upgrade I have
[22:15] <moxypen> ok.. thanks penguin
[22:16] <wechat> CarlFK: it was in 9.10 and it is now from the past with me in 10.10
[22:16] <moxypen> grub would be in /etc/??
[22:16] <bp0> is there a site like this for maverick? http://sites.google.com/site/alucidfs/
[22:17] <CarlFK> guessing i want openoffice.org2
[22:18] <penguin42> CarlFK: Should just be openoffice.org
[22:19] <wechat> CarlFK: there is in the world also OxygenOffice Professional (free)
[22:23] <moxypen> penguin, which file should I edit, /boot/grub/grub.cfg?
[22:23] <penguin42> moxypen: Well I would try it just using the grub menu (hold down left shift just as it's about to boot)
[22:24] <moxypen> even better... will try that :)
[22:24] <penguin42> moxypen: If it works I think it's /etc/default/grub   and I think it's comment 5 in that bug report
[22:25] <moxypen> the left-shift didn't work.. will have to use VI or something
[22:26] <penguin42> it's a matter of hitting shift immediately at the bios
[22:26] <moxypen> oh, I hit "e" on the grub menu, that gave me a simple editor
[22:27] <penguin42> yep that's it
[22:27] <moxypen> ok, thanks.. will change "keep" to "text"
[22:33] <moxypen> well that worked partially... it boots into text now. When running "X", it cant load fglrx
[22:34] <moxypen> ...will read comment #5 now :)
[22:34] <penguin42> moxypen: Ah I'm not sure about the fglrx story, I use the open driver
[22:36] <moxypen> what was the X configuration script thing called again? perhaps if I set it up for vesa?
[22:36] <penguin42> moxypen: If you just move any xorg.conf you have out of the way it should automatically sort itself out
[22:36] <moxypen> just rename / delet xorg.conf?
[22:37] <penguin42> yeh, just rename it so that when you get fglrx going you have it in case you need it
[22:39] <moxypen> ok, that took me a step forward. Now the screen went black. I probably should try setting it to vesa
[22:43] <penguin42> moxypen: You could also try adding a     nomodeset     to the end of the kernel boot line to turn off kernel-mode-setting
[22:43]  * penguin42 disappears for 15mins
[22:44] <moxypen> kk.. thanks
[23:01]  * penguin42 reappears
[23:04] <moxypen> I think I'll just give up and reinstall free when 10.10 comes out
[23:04] <moxypen> free = fresh
[23:04] <penguin42> ok, which card did you say you had?
[23:05] <moxypen> radeon 5750
[23:06] <penguin42> I think the 5xxx support in the open driver is pretty new, so I suspect you'll need the fglrx; I've got the 4350 and it's reasonably happy but still has some issues
[23:06] <moxypen> so you think that's the problem?
[23:06] <penguin42> dunno; I think you're the first 5xxx person I've seen on here
[23:09] <moxypen> dont suppose there's a roll-back from the update?
[23:09] <penguin42> from Maverick->Lucid, sorry no
[23:09] <Daekdroom> HD5xxx doesn't have 3D support on Maverick, and I don't think it will
[23:10] <Daekdroom> unless you use fglrx
[23:10] <penguin42> Daekdroom: Do you know what the current story on fglrx is for Maverick?
[23:12] <Daekdroom> penguin42, It doesn't work (TM)
[23:12] <Daekdroom> We have to wait for a Catalyst beta release with Xserver 1.9 support
[23:12] <penguin42> Daekdroom: OK, so the correct answer for hd5xxx guys at the moment is hard luck
[23:12] <moxypen> ah well... another month?
[23:14] <moxypen> ...and a half
[23:14] <penguin42> Daekdroom: Do you know if edgers has 5xxx support? Maybe an option for some people
[23:15] <Daekdroom> penguin42, xorg-edgers should have Mesa3D code soon, very soon.
[23:15] <Daekdroom> It's just that code won't make it to stable before Maverick freezes.
[23:15] <penguin42> Daekdroom: OK, so the general advice for hd5xxx guys is hard luck - although if it's black screening on them then it's a bug and it needs fixing; 2D should work
[23:15] <Daekdroom> In fact, the Evergreen 3D accel code was merged to Mesa today.
[23:16] <Daekdroom> penguin42, precisely, 2D should work
[23:16] <penguin42> Daekdroom: I remember it needed nomodeset for lucid
[23:16] <moxypen> definitely black-screening
[23:16] <moxypen> ..for me
[23:16] <penguin42> moxypen: I'd try removing fgrlx and seeing if that helps, but if not then certainly bug report it - 2D should work for almost everything
[23:17] <moxypen> how would I remove fgrlx?
[23:17] <penguin42> good question; I don't have it installed
[23:18] <moxypen> I'll google it :)
[23:18] <penguin42> moxypen: Try dpkg -l \*fglrx\* and see what you find to remove - except for fglrx-modaliases which you should keep I think
[23:19] <moxypen> kk
[23:20] <penguin42> Daekdroom: Don't suppose you've had much experience with the hd4xxx cards have you?
[23:20] <Daekdroom> penguin42, 0 experience, why?
[23:21] <penguin42> Daekdroom: I had assaultcube working on Lucid with xorg-edgers, but on plain Maverick it's got severe rendering issues - I've not tried maverick+edgers yet
[23:32] <moxypen> no joy, even after removing fglrx
[23:33] <penguin42> moxypen: Bug report it - include everything you've tried
[23:33] <moxypen> kk
[23:33] <moxypen> thanks and bye
[23:43] <MTecknology> How hard is it to convert an init script to an upstart script?
[23:43] <MTecknology> or perhaps I'll ask in the appropriate channel - sorry
[23:50] <Hellow|SSH> I'm having this odd issue with Xorg not starting and logging nothing at all.
[23:50] <Hellow|SSH> From what I'm seeing in the output, it's segfaulting.
[23:51] <penguin42> Hellow|SSH: What graphics card?
[23:51] <Hellow|SSH> penguin42: ATI Radeon 4650, although I'm not using the config file for it.
[23:51] <Hellow|SSH> Running Xorg fully dynamic, with no xorg.conf
[23:52] <penguin42> Hellow|SSH: ok, you may have bug 605614
[23:53] <penguin42> Hellow|SSH: Can you try something? Stop grub from booting (hit left shift just as the bios comes up and hold it down till you get the grub menu) , and go into the editor in grub (hit e) and change the line that says    set gfxmode=keep    and change the keep to text
[23:53] <Hellow|SSH> Aye, just a second.
[23:59] <Hellow|SSH> Odd.


[09:13] <JamesTait> Good morning, and happy Barbershop Quartet Day! http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9DE5C985C6ECE35B
[13:55] <alecu> ralsina, mandel`: ping
[13:55] <ralsina> pong
[13:55] <alecu> ralsina, mandel`: my vps died, and took my quassel core with it
[13:55] <ralsina> oops
[13:55] <alecu> ralsina: I found mandel` via jabber: he's coming to his office and will join irc shortly
[13:56] <ralsina> alecu: cool


[11:30] <cjwatson> ev: are you planning to upload ubiquity today?  technically features are meant to land in the *archive* by feature freeze :)
[11:31] <ev> indeed, trying to
[11:31] <ev> I've got this move of camerabin from gst-plugins-bad to -good to finish
[11:31] <ev> and the test failures to figure out
[14:33] <CIA-37> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1505 ubuntu/debian/changelog: No-change rebuild to pick up new components.
[14:36] <CIA-37> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1506 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 20101020ubuntu52
[14:45] <CIA-37> user-setup: cjwatson * r242 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog user-setup-apply): Make sure /dev/shm exists before mounting it for ecryptfs (LP: #820460).
[14:46] <CIA-37> user-setup: cjwatson * r243 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.28ubuntu18
[14:57] <cjwatson> ev: I think ubiquity is going to need an FFe - can you write something up?  (hoping you have some dead time while running tests ...)
[14:57] <ev> cjwatson: sure
[14:57] <cjwatson> thanks
[14:57] <ev> still have no idea what's causing this, and really annoyingly I cannot produce it locally, so debugging is quite slow
[14:58] <ev> but I'm slowly hacking away at it :)
[14:58]  * cjwatson nods
[14:58] <cjwatson> I'm looking at bug 820554
[14:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 820554 in console-setup "wrong keyboard layout when installing kubuntu 11.10 i386" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/820554
[15:11] <CIA-37> console-setup: cjwatson * r412 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog keyboard-configuration.config): Fix keyboard layout detection to set the layout properly (LP: #820554).
[15:13] <CIA-37> console-setup: cjwatson * r413 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.57ubuntu22
[15:55] <CIA-37> console-setup: cjwatson * r414 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog control):
[15:55] <CIA-37> console-setup: Explicitly build-depend on liblocale-gettext-perl for kbdnames-maker,
[15:55] <CIA-37> console-setup: and likewise have keyboard-configuration depend on
[15:55] <CIA-37> console-setup: liblocale-gettext-perl.
[15:57] <CIA-37> console-setup: cjwatson * r415 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.57ubuntu23
[16:05] <ev> pbuilder hates me. Fact.
[16:18] <ev> I can't get it to install the build-deps for ubiquity, and I can't seem to find the right way to shove pkgProblemResolver in there
[16:18] <ev> grr
[16:22] <ev> wow.
[17:00] <CIA-37> ubiquity: evand * r4815 trunk/d-i/update-control: Add dependency on gobject-introspection for building typelibs
[17:00] <CIA-37> ubiquity: evand * r4816 trunk/ (gui/gtk/stepWebcam.ui ubiquity/plugins/ubi-webcam.py): Webcam page
[18:57] <lool> cjwatson: I did a plain oneiric debootstrap + apt-get install linux-image-generic grub-pc, and indeed the graphics corruption issue is gone, woot \o/  I wonder whether it's normal that I end up on an empty tty at the end of the boot; if I switch to tty1, I see getty, and tty7 shows a message that fsck ran, but I can't reach the empty tty anymore once I swithed away
[19:00] <cjwatson> sounds like a bug
[19:01] <cjwatson> see ubuntu_vt_handoff.patch
[19:02] <cjwatson> if you have splash turned on then something ought to be arranging to switch back to tty1 at the end of the boot
[19:14] <lool> cjwatson: yup, makes sense
[19:14] <lool> so here the issue is that I don't have a splash switching back
[19:16] <lool> maybe "splash" shouldn't be part of cmdline args unless I have a splasher to do the magic
[20:03] <CIA-37> ubiquity: evand * r4817 ubiquity/d-i/update-control: One more for building GI bits
[20:10] <cjwatson> lool: how've you managed to not have plymouth running at all?
[20:11] <cjwatson> lool: trying to automatically remove splash from the kernel arguments entirely would be problematic, anyway - better to be dynamic about how it's handled
[20:12] <lool> cjwatson: I just debootstraped
[20:12] <lool> cjwatson: probably plymouth was running, but without any actual splash?
[20:13] <lool> plymouth-theme-ubuntu-text is just priority standard
[20:13] <cjwatson> sure, I'm surprised it didn't at least chvt back though
[20:13] <cjwatson> that's the thing to debug
[20:14] <cjwatson> (I can't help now though, Friday evening ...)
[20:14] <lool> cjwatson: sure, enjoy your WE!
[20:14] <lool> nothing urgent anyway
[22:54] <CIA-37> ubiquity: evand * r4818 ubiquity/d-i/update-control: Add python-gobject-cario to build deps. Fixes the segmented_bar test.
[23:18] <CIA-37> ubiquity: evand * r4819 ubiquity/tests/test_misc.py: Fix indicator keymaps test
[23:33] <CIA-37> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1507 ubuntu/ (build/config/amd64/netboot.cfg debian/changelog):
[23:33] <CIA-37> debian-installer: Bump amd64 netboot image size by a megabyte or so; the addition of WPA
[23:33] <CIA-37> debian-installer: support makes this a bit bigger.


[07:05] <ubotu> New bug: #180742 in xserver-xorg-video-amd (main) "lx800 amd_drv.so(with xorg 1.3) still crashes the screen after ctrl alt BS or in shutdown" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180742
[08:44] <pwnguin> man this is crazy. my user is making hardy crash like 8 out of ten times i log in =(
[08:46] <pwnguin> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/50905/
[09:24] <tjaalton> bug 175682
[09:24] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175682 in gnome-keyring "GNOME rarely starts from GDM in Hardy" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175682
[09:24] <tjaalton> pwnguin: ^
[09:24] <tjaalton> gone ->
[10:06] <tjaalton> actually, g-k doesn't make the xserver crash.. logfile is more useful than .xsession-errors though
[11:55] <ubotu> New bug: #180770 in xorg-server (main) "xorg crash after nvidia splash screen blacks out and X crashes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180770
[15:40] <ubotu> New bug: #180802 in xorg-server (main) "Xorg crashed with SIGSEGV in _IO_vfscanf()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180802
[16:37] <tjaalton> bryce: do you think we should get the discover-free xorg merge in for alpha3?
[16:38] <tjaalton> it's not out yet (maybe later today)
[16:41] <tjaalton> without that there isn't much for people to test :)
[16:43] <tjaalton> jcristau: I noticed that -intel has libI810XvMC in it, but our openchrome puts it in a separate library. what do you prefer if we'd push openchrome to git.d.o?
[16:44] <tjaalton> openchrome depends on the lib anyway
[16:45] <jcristau> in a separate package you mean?
[16:46] <tjaalton> uh, yes :)
[16:46] <jcristau> i don't think it needs one
[16:47] <tjaalton> right, if it's not meant for general consumption
[16:47] <tjaalton> which I don't think it is
[16:48] <jcristau> i'm not quite sure how xvmc is supposed to work tho
[16:49] <tjaalton> "This package provides the XVMC libraries used by the xorg driver"
[16:50] <tjaalton> I'll ask the packager
[16:50] <jcristau> it looks like libxvmc dlopens the driver
[16:51] <jcristau> so yeah, no need for a separate package afaics
[16:51] <jcristau> (from a quick look at libxvmc/src/XvMCWrapper.c)
[19:35] <ubotu> New bug: #180841 in mesa (main) "glXDestroyContext causes segmentation fault with Via Unichrome graphics" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180841
[20:11] <pwnguin> anyone know if tjaalton thanks
[20:11] <pwnguin> yikes
[20:11] <pwnguin> tjaalton: thanks for th elink
[20:12] <tjaalton> pwnguin: actually, I don't think it's the same bug :)
[20:12] <pwnguin> me either
[20:12] <pwnguin> i get a straight up crash
[20:13] <pwnguin> not a hang
[20:13] <pwnguin> and a new user fixes the problem
[20:13] <tjaalton> provide the Xorg.0.log
[20:14] <pwnguin> shall i file a bug and attach?
[20:14] <bryce> morning
[20:14] <tjaalton> hi bryce
[20:14] <bryce> tjaalton: yes, if there's time to get the discover-free xorg in, I say go for it
[20:14] <pwnguin> its noon, even in portland
[20:14] <tjaalton> hehe
[20:14] <tjaalton> that's what I thought too :)
[20:15] <tjaalton> pwnguin: put it in pastebin first
[20:15] <bryce> heh ok so we got up late here ;-)
[20:15] <tjaalton> luxury
[20:15] <pwnguin> I should just move to australia
[20:15] <bryce> was up til 4am working on inkscape
[20:16] <pwnguin> i seem to live their schedule
[20:16] <pwnguin> tjaalton: 0.log doesn't have the crash in it =/
[20:16] <tjaalton> .old
[20:17] <pwnguin> hmm, a backtrace
[20:17] <pwnguin> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/51001/
[20:18] <tjaalton> nvidia..
[20:18] <tjaalton> do you get the same with nv?
[20:18] <pwnguin> i can try
[20:18] <pwnguin> but i think so
[20:19] <pwnguin> i know how you guys like to blame everything on nvidia

[20:20] <tjaalton> a third of all the bugs on x-swat packages are from restricted-modules (>500)
[20:21] <tjaalton> that backtrace doesn't look like it's nvidia's fault though
[20:22] <pwnguin> same happened
[20:23] <tjaalton> then you should get a proper backtrace with gdb
[20:25] <tjaalton> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingXorg
[20:25] <tjaalton> since it doesn't hang the machine you can use a vt for gdb
[20:26] <pwnguin> that package doesn't exist
[20:27] <pwnguin> oh
[20:27] <pwnguin> seperate repo
[20:27] <tjaalton> or xserver-xorg-core-dbg
[20:28] <pwnguin> is there a difference?
[20:28] <tjaalton> you can install -dbg directly
[20:28] <tjaalton> otherwise no
[20:47] <pwnguin> time for breakfast
[20:53] <bryce> ha, so it _is_ morning!
[21:05] <pwnguin> you misunderstand. breakfast is whenever you break the fast
[21:05] <pwnguin> i happened to wake up at 2
[21:09] <bryce> hrm, well I'm certain it's morning somewhere
[21:54] <pwnguin> i have a feeling you'll love this
[21:55] <pwnguin> two backtraces
[21:55] <pwnguin> one broken pipe and one segfault
[21:56] <pwnguin> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/51014/ http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/51015/
[21:58] <pwnguin> broken pipes happen even with the good user, so the second paste is my culprit
[22:08] <pwnguin> null pointer dereference
[22:08] <pwnguin> somehow, XkbFindSrvLedInfo returned null
[22:10] <pwnguin> which causes sli-> to null pointer die
[22:12] <pwnguin> which is entirely possible
[22:14] <tjaalton> pwnguin: ok, please file a bug on xorg-server, and attach the backtraces
[22:14] <pwnguin> okies
[22:14] <pwnguin> already workin on it ;)
[22:15] <pwnguin> oh, i love the dupe finder
[22:15] <pwnguin> Phil Collins causes Nautilus to segfault
[22:16] <tjaalton> there'll be a new xorg-server snapshot probably tomorrow
[22:16] <tjaalton> dupe finder?
[22:16] <pwnguin> on launchpad
[22:16] <pwnguin> you file a bug, and it suggests possible dupes
[22:17] <tjaalton> oh right
[22:17] <tjaalton> similar would be useful for bug triaging
[22:17] <pwnguin> it helps a bit
[22:18] <pwnguin> but they either need google level intelligence to figure the algorthim out or smarter users
[22:18] <pwnguin> xorg-server or xserver-xorg-core?
[22:21] <pwnguin> does xorg not have their code on some webgit interface?
[22:21] <tjaalton> yes they do
[22:21] <pwnguin> im failing to find it by simply browsing their site =(
[22:22] <tjaalton> http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/
[22:22] <tjaalton> xorg-server is the source package of xserver-xorg-core
[22:22] <pwnguin> thanks
[22:22] <tjaalton> so x-x-core bugs end up in xorg-server queue
[22:23] <pwnguin> unfortunately, a new pull doesnt appear like it will fix the bug
[22:25] <tjaalton> maybe not
[22:25] <tjaalton> then we'll forward it upstream
[22:26] <tjaalton> you can try searching bugzilla.fd.o if it's reported already
[22:34] <bryce> tjaalton: brian murray recommends bughelper for dupe finding while triaging
[22:35] <bryce> I've not looked at it in a while; apparently it's got new docs and stuff so should be easier to use I hope
[22:37] <tjaalton> bryce: cool, I'll check that out
[22:40] <ubotu> New bug: #180884 in xorg-server (main) "xkbLEDs causes segfault on login" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180884
[23:19] <IceKiller> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=633068 <--
[23:19] <IceKiller> the Intel driver + MESA 7.01 shipped with Gutsy is quite buggy with Intel GM965, there are new 'drivers' and was wondering if it was going to be included in the mainstream
[23:19] <IceKiller> http://www.mesa3d.org/relnotes-7.0.2.html where it mentions among other things that: "Fixed an assortment of i965 driver bugs" && a new Intel driver, version 2.2.0: http://xorg.freedesktop.org/archive/...l-2.2.0.tar.gz
[23:20] <tjaalton> IceKiller: try hardy alpha2, which has those
[23:20] <IceKiller> tjaalton k ty :)
[23:21] <IceKiller> tjaalton anychance they are going to update it in their mainstream
[23:22] <tjaalton> what do you mean? backports for gutsy?
[23:23] <IceKiller> yeah
[23:23] <IceKiller> well included into the 'update' stuff..
[23:23] <tjaalton> I don't know
[23:23] <IceKiller> hm k :) tx
[23:35] <bryce> no probably not
[23:35] <pwnguin> if you want stuff fixed, test and report the testing versions ;)
[23:35] <bryce> it's a lot of work to backport significant driver changes, and the effort is better invested into making hardy better
[23:36] <tjaalton> yeah
[23:37] <bryce> right; if you want to put in some elbow grease to get patches ported to Gutsy, that would be a great thing!  But I've backported as much for -intel as I'm planning for gutsy
[23:55] <tjaalton> hum, checked how many new bugs there were reported in 2007.. (re: perriers blog on planet.d.o)
[23:56] <tjaalton> the first bug-id of 2007 was bug 77587, and the first in 2008 was bug 179627
[23:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 77587 in ivi "Assertion `expr` failed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/77587
[23:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 179627 in ubuntu "Laptop battery icon disappears" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179627
[23:56] <tjaalton> but not all of the id's are ubuntu bugs
[23:57] <tjaalton> don't know how to get reliable data out from it


[00:28] <psusi> cjwatson, back in june I tinkered with ureadahead to have it use the pipe method instead of the log file method for ftrace... this eliminated the need to preallocate a buffer to hold the full trace, and instead has ureadahead parse the trace log in real time.  would you be interested in it if I rebased it and proposed merging?
[00:30] <psusi> cjwatson, err, nevermind, I meant keybuck
[00:31] <psusi> Keybuk, back in june I tinkered with ureadahead to have it use the pipe method instead of the log file method for ftrace... this eliminated the need to preallocate a buffer to hold the full trace, and instead has ureadahead parse the trace log in real time.  would you be interested in it if I rebased it and proposed merging?
[00:47] <psusi> ohh, you've merged that fragraph.py.. I couldn't remember who gave me that
[02:36] <ari-tczew> @pilot out
[06:56] <dholbach> good morning!
[10:00] <zyga> hi
[10:00] <zyga> django has released security releases for all production branches, are we going to get that in lucid + ?
[10:00] <zyga> two security bugs were fixed
[10:25] <apw> dholbach, morning
[10:25] <dholbach> hey apw
[10:25] <apw> anyone else seeing gdm greeter repeatedly crashing before it prompts ?
[10:25] <apw> dholbach, nothing works for me today its most depressing
[10:26] <dholbach> hum... is anything in /var/log/Xorg.0.log or /var/log/gdm/* about that?
[10:27] <dholbach> apw, it certainly works for me (in a vm)
[10:27] <dholbach> maybe the #ubuntu-desktop mafia can help?
[10:28] <apw> dholbach, yeah continius errors about window==NULL
[10:28] <dholbach> hum, no idea what that is about
[10:30] <apw> dholbach, will ask the #u-d mafia, but i bet they are all gone
[10:31] <dholbach> ^ RAOF, bryceh?
[10:31] <dholbach> (only ones I could find :-))
[10:32] <apw> heh both in other timezones tho ... sigh
[10:33] <apw> dholbach, that will teach me to dogfood, we cannot be trusted to not push poo before a break
[10:33] <ricotz> this is a problem with the gtk+ packages
[10:34] <apw> ricotz, yeah you seeing it too?
[10:35] <ricotz> yes
[10:35] <dholbach> ok, I see it too :)
[10:35] <ricotz> i am not sure yet, what the real cause is, but the gtk+3.0 dev is broken
[10:36] <ricotz> also the gobject-introspection packaging it messed up :(
[10:37]  * apw wonders who to slap
[10:37] <dholbach> I don't see anything obvious in http://launchpadlibrarian.net/61126003/gtk%2B3.0_2.91.7-0ubuntu1_2.91.7-1ubuntu1.diff.gz
[10:37] <ricotz> dholbach, it is 2.91.7 the tarball doesnt ship all needed *.pc files
[10:39] <dholbach> aha
[10:39] <apw> dholbach, doesn't seem robert is on IRC, at least if his IRC entry is accurate anyhow
[10:40] <dholbach> no seems like he's not around
[10:41]  * apw thinks we need a word about shipping upgrades and then going on holiday before they are even built
[10:42] <apw> ricotz, does it help if i downgrade to .6 ... as confirmation that is the broken component?   seems i have them in my cache
[10:43] <ricotz> apw, i think this could help, but the gtk+2.0 update might have a problem too
[10:43] <apw> ricotz, gurgle, ok i'll try that downgrade and report back
[10:44] <ricotz> i uploaded a git snapshot of gtk+3 to my ppa, it might fix some problems for me
[10:44] <apw> ricotz, ok downgrading the 3.0 stuff did not help
[10:45] <ricotz> apw, so if the problem persists i can try to downgrade gtk+2.0 too
[10:46] <apw> ricotz, ok downgrading the 2.0 as well seems to get me a gdm prompt at least
[10:46] <apw> dholbach, a nice mess and no mistake
[10:47] <ricotz> apw, you might want to go back to gtk+2.0 2.23.2
[10:47] <ricotz> ah, nevermind
[10:47] <apw> ricotz, i think thats the version i had before, yes
[10:48] <apw> ricotz, thanks for your help finding the errant packages so quick
[10:48] <ricotz> apw, oh another thing
[10:49] <ricotz> apw, are there known problem with 2.6.37-11 and nvidia blob
[10:49] <dholbach> ricotz, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-December/032244.html?
[10:49] <apw> ricotz, not that i've heard about, but the binary blobs normally explode when we change the kernel
[10:50] <dholbach> apw, I agree it's not nice to be stuck with a problem like that, but I'm sure Robert really didn't mean to sabotage you
[10:50] <dholbach> (or whoever else uploaded the change that made things break)
[10:50] <apw> dholbach, i know he didn't do it deliberatly :)  but shipping a primary library change as a break starts is asking for trouble
[10:51] <apw> thats why we did our last kernel update 4 days before we went offline :)
[10:51] <ricotz> dholbach, alright, that might be it
[10:51] <dholbach> ricotz, I filed a bug about mine
[10:52] <apw> ricotz, cirtainly you cannot have =keep turned on with those binary blobs, they do not cope with the card being initialised
[10:52] <apw> ricotz, which is pretty crap given they are from the vendors of the devices and they have the manuals for the chipsets and everything
[10:53] <apw> ricotz, is there a bug on this gtk stuff yet?
[10:53] <ricotz> apw, yeah, i want to try the nvc0 nouveau branches at some time, but right now i need to use the blob :(
[10:53] <ricotz> apw, i havent filed one, so maybe not
[10:53] <apw> dholbach, you ?
[10:54] <dholbach> I didn't file a bug on the gtk stuff
[10:54]  * apw will file one
[10:54] <apw> ricotz, did you say it was missing the .pc files ?
[10:55] <ricotz> yes, the gtk+3 one but that is an upstream issue which is fixed
[10:58] <apw> ricotz, ok i will leave the description plain without that and just include the work around
[10:58] <apw> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/693737
[10:59] <apw> dholbach, this machine is turning into a right frankenstein, udev and gtk held back now to get a clean boot ... sigh, at least the kernel works
[11:00] <dholbach> apw, there's times that have been worse I think :-)
[11:02] <apw> dholbach, that i can believe, no chance of working CDs over the break sadly
[11:02] <apw> that will upset cert
[11:45] <ari-tczew> zyga: ask on #ubuntu-hardened
[11:49] <zyga> thanks
[12:45] <vish> cjwatson: hi, regarding Bug #548981 , I'd marked the dpkg task as fixed, since tedg mentioned in the session that it was fixed in dpkg. I dont know the commit# though. Maybe we can ask tedg when he returns from his vacation..
[13:23] <cjwatson> vish: *shrug* as far as I know he was mistaken, since this is plain-and-simple not a problem in dpkg itself, but I don't know that it matters all that much.  I was just trying to stop people searching for a non-existent fix.
[13:24] <cjwatson> vish: (I upload dpkg to Ubuntu, tedg doesn't ;-) )
[13:24] <vish> cjwatson: yea, i know.. :)
[14:16] <SpamapS> Does anyone have experience with nfs root mounted systems? I'm specifically curious about how sm-notify works without any local storage to tell us who to notify.
[14:32] <SpamapS> hrm, seems like one would need a dedicated /var for each client or reboot notification isn't going to happen.
[15:18] <matti> :>
[15:28] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: is sync tor on todo archive admins?
[15:30] <cjwatson> ari-tczew: yes
[16:35] <jhunt> SpamapS: re bug 690401 - apologies: your RLEVEL logic is of course correct: seemingly my
[16:35] <jhunt> brain doesn't parse shell syntax as well as the shell!
[16:37] <jhunt> SpamapS: I'm still confused by the whole runlevel thing though. Keybuk has pointed out that "there be demons" with the "start on... runlevel" logic proposed.
[16:39] <SpamapS> jhunt: it does indeed feel as if I've set off on a voyage destined for the edge of the map, not down the coastline ;)
[16:40] <SpamapS> jhunt: the problem is, if we just drop the 'start on started portmap' then when portmap is restarted, we won't start back up.. and if we drop both.. then we won't pick up the new portmap
[16:41] <SpamapS> jhunt: so I truly want to express "start on started portmap and run level is one of [2345]"
[16:42] <SpamapS> it may be better to simply do a check for /var being writable.
[16:43] <sladen> okay, who did an upload today and turned GDM into a 1 Hz flashing rectangle of white ?
[16:44] <SpamapS> sladen: santa's little helper?
[16:46] <sladen> SpamapS: the timing is excellent
[16:46]  * SpamapS was just about to do-release-upgrade -d .. will hold off ;)
[16:46] <sladen> bryceh: ^^ would the failsafe change to xorg yesterday have made login impossible?
[16:47] <ScottK> sladen: Probably either a security feature or trying to make training simpler for corporate clients.
[16:49] <sladen> ScottK: there's certainly no risk of a GUI login, accidental, malicious, or intended
[16:50] <ScottK> sladen: Right.  Thus it's secure and training costs are minimal.
[16:51] <sladen> ScottK: the wonderful thing is I can't file a but from lynx about not being able to file bugs from lynx either :)
[16:52] <sladen> sabdfl keeps asking me for a get-out-of-jail pen-drive image ... could do with it now
[16:53] <Keybuk> SpamapS: err
[16:53] <Keybuk> SpamapS: even with the portmap, when portmap is restarted, that job won't start back up again
[16:53] <Keybuk> so you're already putting diesel in the tank
[16:54] <Keybuk> and worrying about your mileage varying
[16:54] <SpamapS> Keybuk: can you explain further?
[16:56] <Keybuk> sure
[16:56] <Keybuk> so you've done:
[16:57] <Keybuk>   start on one-thing and another-thing
[16:57] <Keybuk> right?
[16:57] <Keybuk> that doesn't work the way anyone thinks it does
[16:57] <Keybuk> and while it works as designed, the design is wrong
[16:57] <Keybuk> "and" means both events must happen for the job to be started
[16:57] <SpamapS> I did do that, however slangasek pointed out that it will cause a deadlock so I think I have to remove the and
[16:57] <Keybuk> but, it also means, once the job is stopped, BOTH events MUST happen AGAIN
[16:58] <Keybuk> so if you do
[16:58] <Keybuk>   start on started portmap and net-device-up lo
[16:58] <Keybuk> then restarting portmap will stop statd
[16:58] <Keybuk> but won't start it back up again
[16:58] <Keybuk> because it's waiting for the network device to come up
[16:58] <SpamapS> the logic I've proposed is   start on started portmap OR mounting TYPE=nfs OR runlevel [2345]
[16:59] <Keybuk> it was "AND" last time I looked ;-)
[16:59] <SpamapS> the one that steve took issue with was   start on started portmap OR (local-filesystems and mounting TYPE=nfs)
[16:59] <Keybuk> yeah, basically avoid and unless you really know what you're doing
[16:59] <Keybuk> if you have a problem, and doesn't solve it
[16:59] <Keybuk> it gives you new and worse problems
[17:00] <Keybuk> so
[17:00] <Keybuk> winding back a bit
[17:00] <Keybuk> I'm trying to understand what you're trying to change
[17:00] <SpamapS> right, some of the discussion has been going on in a merge proposal..
[17:00] <Keybuk> well, that, and all the discussion is filed under TL;DR at this point
[17:01] <Keybuk> I assume you're working on a fix for that fact that statd doesn't get started on boot if you don't mount an NFS share?
[17:01] <SpamapS> right, well I've got you now so.. to answer your bigger question.. I just want to make sure that we *don't* try to start statd before /var is writable...
[17:01] <Keybuk> why before /var ?
[17:02] <SpamapS> sm-notify has to write to /var/lib/nfs
[17:02] <Keybuk> ok, so why not:
[17:02] <Keybuk>   start on local-filesystems
[17:02] <SpamapS> thinking
[17:03] <SpamapS> is that event emitted on nfsroot only setups?
[17:03] <Keybuk> no idea
[17:03] <Keybuk> I've never tested nfsroot
[17:03] <Keybuk> it's emitted by mountall
[17:04] <Keybuk> and I think mountall has always had issues with nfsroot setups ;)
[17:04] <SpamapS> Also it would require that all local filesystems are mounted before nfs.. but.. that actually is what I'm looking at doing anyway.. just documenting that fact.
[17:05] <slangasek> Keybuk: it's not "start on local-filesystems" because it will race portmap, which only depends on virtual-filesystems
[17:05] <Keybuk> will it race portmap?
[17:05] <Keybuk> someone's stuck start portmap in the statd pre-start
[17:05] <SpamapS> right
[17:05] <slangasek> hm
[17:05] <Keybuk> there may not be an ideal solution for this today
[17:05] <Keybuk> but I'd like to at least know what the ideal solution should be so I can test that works in upstart2
[17:05] <slangasek> right, I suppose that should work then
[17:06] <SpamapS> will start block if a job is already goal==start but not running?
[17:06] <Keybuk> while advising on a hack to solve the bug that is open today
[17:06] <Keybuk> SpamapS: no, but then there's a status portmap right after the start portmap ;-)
[17:06] <SpamapS> Keybuk: which will fail the pre-start .. which means we then don't start statd right? or does it mean it will be tried again?
[17:07] <Keybuk> there's a small race there that may mean it won't be tried again
[17:07] <Keybuk> if portmap gets started between the point the status call gets told it's not running and stops the job
[17:07] <SpamapS> well this is handled by the OR started portmap
[17:07] <Keybuk> right, but there's a race there
[17:08] <SpamapS> if we just add a check to either sm-notify, or the pre-start, that makes sure /var is writable before we try to run sm-notify
[17:08] <Keybuk> I think the problem is with the NFS shebang is that too many start conditions are trying to be encoded
[17:08] <Keybuk> you want to start on boot
[17:08] <Keybuk> but simultaneously before and after some event
[17:08] <SpamapS> Its ok to try it when portmap is started and on local-filesystems, as long as we only go forward after /var/lib/nfs is writable.
[17:08] <Keybuk> and if the event doesn't happen
[17:09] <Keybuk> SpamapS: I don't think you can encode that today
[17:10] <SpamapS> Right it does seem like there is a singular sync point that we want to hit
[17:10] <SpamapS> after portmap, after local filesystems, before mounting any nfs mounts
[17:10] <Keybuk> maybe the right thing to do is to try and draw the conditions
[17:10] <Keybuk> if we can see the possible timelines, it may be more obvious
[17:12] <SpamapS> Right.. as I'm drawing.. is local-filesystems ever emitted before virtual-filesystems?
[17:12] <Keybuk> no, I think that's an invariant in mountall
[17:12] <Keybuk> it always does virtual, local, remote
[17:12] <Keybuk> ok, checked
[17:12] <Keybuk> it enforces virtual before local
[17:12] <Keybuk> and enforces virtual before remote
[17:12] <Keybuk> but you may get
[17:13] <Keybuk> virtual, local, remote
[17:13] <Keybuk> OR virtual, remote, local
[17:13] <SpamapS> it is..
[17:13] <SpamapS> one of the conditions for firing local-filesystems is virtual_triggere
[17:13] <SpamapS> d
[17:13] <Keybuk> yes
[17:13] <SpamapS> so start on local-filesystems hits the mark exactly
[17:14] <Keybuk> you might want:
[17:14] <Keybuk>   start on local-filesystems or started portmap
[17:14] <SpamapS> Its still possible that this will be too late for statd, but that is something that people configuring systems must be conscious of.
[17:14] <Keybuk> to pop up the restart on upgrade case
[17:14] <Keybuk> mop up, sorry
[17:15] <slangasek> but then the 'or started portmap' races the rw mount of /var/lib in the on-boot case?
[17:15] <SpamapS> Right, unless we say either "but not during bootup" or "but only if /var is writable"
[17:15] <SpamapS> which I think is ok for a pre-start .. no?
[17:16] <slangasek> and if local-filesystems isn't handled synchronously, the whole thing can still race an attempt to mount an nfs shar
[17:16] <slangasek> e
[17:16] <slangasek> at boot
[17:16] <SpamapS> slangasek: indeed, local-filesystems is not waited on.. however
[17:16] <SpamapS> start on mounting TYPE=nfs *is*
[17:17] <Keybuk> right, local-filesystems is a signal
[17:17] <Keybuk> mounting is a hook
[17:17] <Keybuk> this is why I'm trying to get thinking in terms of a timeline
[17:17] <slangasek> SpamapS: which doesn't help us if you can't mention 'mounting' in the job because we can't use AND :)
[17:17] <Keybuk>  v | <-----> (portmap)
[17:18] <Keybuk>           | l
[17:18] <Keybuk> vs
[17:18] <Keybuk>  v | <-----> (portmap)
[17:18] <Keybuk>                | l
[17:18] <SpamapS> slangasek: we don't need AND
[17:18] <Keybuk> in those two cases, where should this go?
[17:19] <slangasek> SpamapS: what we need is: statd started after portmap, after /var/lib is mounted rw, and before any attempts to mount an nfs filesystem
[17:19] <Keybuk> do you need statd to mount an nfs filesystem?
[17:19] <slangasek> yes
[17:19] <Keybuk> I thought statd was for when someone was mounting yours
[17:20] <Keybuk> because you definitely also need statd for when someone is mounting *your* NFS filesystems
[17:20] <slangasek> it's also needed on the client side
[17:20] <Keybuk> which means it's much more complicated than what you just said
[17:20] <Keybuk> because then it's
[17:20] <Keybuk> statd started after portmap, after /var/lib is mounted rw, before any attempts to mount an nfs filesystem and if there are no nfs filesystems
[17:20] <slangasek> Keybuk: "when someone is mounting your NFS filesystems" comes later; nfs-kernel-server isn't even converted to upstart yet
[17:20] <Keybuk> slangasek: statd doesn't get started in that case ;-
[17:21] <slangasek> Keybuk: right, sorry, I was implying that part
[17:21] <Keybuk> you realise of course that upstart will only stop the *first* attempt to mount an nfs filesystem >
[17:21] <slangasek> yep :/
[17:21] <Keybuk> (which I guess is ok, because mountall waits anyway)
[17:21] <Keybuk> so that looks something like:
[17:21] <Keybuk>   start on started portmap \
[17:22] <Keybuk>       and local-filesystems \
[17:22] <Keybuk>     and mounting TYPE=nfs
[17:22] <SpamapS> slangasek: maybe portmap should start on a mounted, rather than virtual-filesystems ..
[17:22] <slangasek> nope
[17:23] <slangasek> there's no way to use 'mounted' to describe what you want in the general case
[17:23] <slangasek> because fstabs are varied
[17:24] <SpamapS> and if you do an and.. kittens suffer capital punishment..
[17:24] <Keybuk> not always, it just pays to think
[17:24] <SpamapS> well wait
[17:25] <SpamapS> it will fail to start if portmap isn't started yet right?
[17:25] <Keybuk> in the above case, for example, it will all go very badly wrong
[17:25] <SpamapS> so the OR still works.. the second attempt will succeed
[17:25] <Keybuk> SpamapS: no
[17:25] <Keybuk> SpamapS: unfortunately you have a race
[17:25] <Keybuk> again, think in terms of timelines
[17:25] <SpamapS> I'm drawing it right now.. ;)
[17:26] <Keybuk>  | <--> : (status, portmap is not started)
[17:26] <Keybuk>      |  : (portmap is started )
[17:26] <Keybuk>         | (job is stopped)
[17:27] <Keybuk> it's possible for started portmap to happen while the result of start portmap/status portmap being still in transit back to the job
[17:27] <Keybuk> in which case the job is in JOB_START when it gets told "portmap started"
[17:27] <slangasek> how about: start on started portmap $post_boot or (started portmap $at_boot and local-filesystems) or mounting TYPE=nfs?  Or was the magic to distinguish between boot-time and post-boot start of portmap rejected when I wasn't looking?
[17:27] <Keybuk> slangasek: hmm, that's quite a nice idea - though how would you put the magic in?
[17:28] <slangasek> Keybuk: it was SpamapS's idea to get the portmap job to export some appropriate variables; neither of us had quite worked out yet what the mechanism for that was
[17:29] <Keybuk> you can export variables from events that started you
[17:29] <Keybuk> so if you did something like:
[17:29] <Keybuk>   start on virtual-filesystems and net-device-up IFACE=lo
[17:29] <Keybuk>   exec initctl emit start-portmap ON_BOOT=yes
[17:29] <Keybuk> then in portmap.conf
[17:29] <Keybuk>   start on start-portmap
[17:29] <Keybuk>   export ON_BOOT
[17:29] <Keybuk> you can do elsewhere
[17:29] <Keybuk>   start on started portmap ON_BOOT=...
[17:30] <Keybuk> (you need the middle-man job to start portmap, rather than portmap having its own condition)
[17:30] <SpamapS> ah so you can only export from events..  not from the environment
[17:30] <Keybuk> tbh, I suspect this NFS stuff would get a lot easier to understand if we just had all the NFS-y things having
[17:30] <Keybuk>   start on NEED_NFS=y
[17:30] <Keybuk> and something else actually emitting those events ;)
[17:30] <Keybuk> err
[17:30] <Keybuk>   start on need-nfs ;-)
[17:30] <Keybuk> SpamapS: upstart doesn't know the environment of its children
[17:30] <Keybuk> SpamapS: only the environment it gave to its children
[17:30] <Keybuk> (UNIX 101, dear)
[17:31]  * SpamapS was obviously a bit hung over that day. :/
[17:32] <Keybuk> . o O { of course, upstart could look at /proc/$PID/environ at the point of the started event and re-import that }
[17:32] <slangasek> so that gives us 'start on started portmap ON_BOOT= or (started portmap ON_BOOT=yes and local-filesystems)' ?
[17:33] <Keybuk> I think so
[17:33] <SpamapS> Makes sense to me.
[17:34] <SpamapS> so then just add a portmap-boot.conf that sets that
[17:34] <slangasek> ... plus the 'or mounting TYPE=nfs' which fell off the end of my cut'n'paste
[17:35] <SpamapS> slangasek: wait, or? I thought it was and.
[17:35] <SpamapS> strike that
[17:35] <slangasek> k
[17:35] <SpamapS> what about the timeline where portmap is not started yet, but we hit mounting TYPE=nfs
[17:36] <slangasek> SpamapS: we keep the 'start portmap' in the pre-start script for that
[17:36] <SpamapS> Which won't block if its start/pre-start, or will it?
[17:36] <slangasek> I've seen evidence to suggest that it might not block in that case, but if so that might be an upstart bug
[17:39] <SpamapS> checking
[17:40] <SpamapS> no
[17:40] <SpamapS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/546986/
[17:40] <SpamapS> you will just get an error "job is already running"
[17:40] <SpamapS> even though its not, its in pre-start
[17:41] <Keybuk> slangasek: it does not block, and it is considered an upstart bug
[17:42] <slangasek> Keybuk: fixable in the near-term?
[17:42] <Keybuk> (it's one I have a solution for I'm very proud of :p)
[17:42] <slangasek> uhoh ;)
[17:42] <Keybuk> slangasek: it's not on the natty list
[17:42] <slangasek> SpamapS: so anyway, there would still be a race condition there as a result of the upstart bug; but it would be a smaller race window than what we have now, and it needs to be fixed in upstart
[17:43] <SpamapS> quite a bit yes I agree
[17:43] <slangasek> so we might try this route and see how close that gets us to something usable?
[17:43] <SpamapS> quite a bit smaller I mean
[17:44] <SpamapS> Yes, it seems a very tiny window. We should probably do a best-effort check for things that may cause portmap to start slowly.
[17:45] <Keybuk> you could also just do a loop in the pre-start checking the result of status
[17:45] <slangasek> I didn't write it that way initially because of a conversation we had where you were very vehement about not doing that ;)
[17:45] <Keybuk> oh, I may have been vehemently misunderstanding your intentions
[17:46] <slangasek> so, while ! status portmap | grep -q start/running; do sleep 1; done
[17:47] <bryceh> sladen, oh I would highly doubt it
[17:47] <SpamapS> slangasek: should also have the start in there.. what if it failed, we'd spin forever without even trying to rectify the situation.
[17:49] <SpamapS> Keybuk: thanks for taking time to help out. :)
[17:49] <SpamapS> slangasek: ^ you too. :)
[17:49]  * SpamapS will bbiab
[18:11] <sladen> bryceh: seems to be somewhere in the asychronous DBusy soup
[18:14] <bryceh> sladen, ah
[18:22] <slangasek> SpamapS: yes, wasn't suggesting removing the 'start' line, just fixing the line after it
[18:56] <kees> any archive admins around? I'm trying to figure out why "tor" hasn't appeared in natty yet.
[18:56] <ari-tczew> kees: +1
[18:56] <ari-tczew> I asked today about this case
[18:57] <kees> yeah, I though it was stuck in NEW, but I don't see it.
[18:58] <micahg> kees: my guess is the AAs were finishing up EOY tasks
[19:01] <kees> hm, actually, in looking at natty-changes, it seems there hasn't been a Debian sync in a while.
[19:02] <micahg> right, hence my theory :)
[19:02]  * kees scratches his head
[19:02] <kees> maybe the auto syncs don't show up.
[19:02] <micahg> kees: no, they show up as Ubuntu Installer
[19:02] <kees> I was thinking those were requested syncs, not auto syncs
[19:03] <micahg> kees: requested syncs show up with the name of the requestor
[19:05] <kees> hm, no, it looks like auto sync doesn't show up. e.g. libdisasm does not appear in maverick-changes even though it was updated in maverick during an autosync
[19:06] <dobey> is there a document on the wiki that explains how to go about getting new binary packages added to the default install/cd? i'm having trouble finding one if so, and trying to find some clear explanation of that process
[19:09] <micahg> kees: it seems you're correct, I apologize for the wrong information :)
[19:09] <kees> micahg: heh, no worries. I guess it was turned off due to the flood it would create.
[19:09] <kees> unfortunately, I'm back to wondering when the last autosync was. :P
[19:10] <kees> (and where tor ran off to)
[19:10] <micahg> kees: well, the bug's not closed, so it probably just hasn't been processed yet
[19:10]  * kees nods
[19:10] <micahg> and almost everyone's on vacation at this point
[19:11]  * micahg thinks there will be one last huge auto-sync on Jan 3 when everyone comes back
[19:11] <sladen> dobey: I think http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeedManagement  but for extra comedy that page is crashing at the server end
[19:12] <dobey> so it seems :-/
[19:15] <micahg> kees: the delay gets us a couple extra bug fixes :)
[19:16] <kees> micahg: hehe :)
[19:20] <geser> kees: got "tor" synced? I see the sync request still open (bug 413657)
[19:22] <kees> geser: that's old, IIUC. it had been on the autosync blacklist, but it got removed, so I've been trying to figure out why it didn't get autosynced
[19:31] <Laney> maybe nobody has done a new-source (or whatever it's called) run since
[19:36] <geser> might be, auto-sync only syncs "existing" packages
[19:37] <geser> import new packages is another script which gets run less frequently than the auto-sync script
[19:37] <micahg> geser: there's also a sync request filed for it
[19:38] <Laney> that was only recently acked
[19:39] <micahg> Laney: last week
[19:40] <Laney> was the queue processed since?
[19:40]  * micahg test builds the new version of tor
[19:40] <micahg> Laney: does not appear so
[19:44] <Keybuk> zyga: if you were subscribed to the D-Bus list right now, you'd understand the rationale for doing those D-Bus activation patches :-)
[19:44] <Keybuk> it has forced the desired discussion
[19:44] <Keybuk> well, shouting from Lennart anyway
[19:50] <zyga> Keybuk, hmm, dbus on freedesktop?
[19:50] <zyga> Keybuk, I'll check the archive, thanks for the hint
[19:50] <ebroder> zyga: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dbus/2010-December/013868.html is the link you want - it's buried in the thread view
[19:54] <zyga> ebroder, thanks
[20:14] <SpamapS> slangasek: actually I was suggesting moving the start into the loop, it may fail. But while disconnected, I thought of another thing we could try. What about making portmap start on ... whatever it has now .. or starting statd   ?
[20:14] <sladen> zyga: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dbus/2010-December/thread.html  was an interesting read
[20:14] <SpamapS> slangasek: that would make sure statd never actually starts until portmap is started
[20:15] <zyga> sladen, I actually read most of the archive from that month
[20:22] <slangasek> SpamapS: ah; I wouldn't move the start into the loop, because aside from the "already starting" race, the only reasons it should fail would seem to be fatal and shouldn't cause the statd job to be left looping
[20:23] <slangasek> SpamapS: and portmap 'start on ... or starting statd' only ensures portmap is started first *if* portmap isn't already being started, which by all rights it should be
[20:30] <Keybuk> sladen: I wish that someone would fix the fd.o pipermail
[20:30] <Keybuk> it's annoying the way it doesn't correctly line up threads
[20:41] <SpamapS> slangasek: leaving the statd looping means never mounting nfs filesystems.
[20:41] <SpamapS> slangasek: and means never emitting 'filesystems'
[20:42] <SpamapS> slangasek: so at the very least, we should only wait for a little while.. hence my thought that we should make a best effort attempt to identify the longest we think it should ever take for portmap to be up and serving.
[20:45] <SpamapS> slangasek: another thought for the longer term.. socket activation for portmap would seem to alleviate this problem entirely wouldn't it?
[20:55] <sladen> bryceh: narrowed down to today's libgtk2.0-bin (>2.32.2-0ubuntu4)  robert.ancell might be around in an hour (Sydney time)
[20:58] <sladen> robert_ancell: bug #693737
[20:59] <slangasek> SpamapS: I still don't think we should be second-guessing other conditions that cause portmap to fail to start until we actually encounter one
[21:00] <bryceh> sladen, aha excellent
[21:00] <SpamapS> slangasek: 100% agree, lets not put start in the loop. But does it make sense that it should give up after a while?
[21:01] <SpamapS> slangasek: essentially.. I'd rather move on to a failure because nfs can't be mounted than wait indefinitely for portmap and give users no clue as to what is going on.
[21:01] <slangasek> SpamapS: oh, I don't know.  Any filesystems waiting on statd won't mount without it anyway, so I'm not sure it gains us anything
[21:01] <slangasek> right
[21:02] <slangasek> but how do you calculate how long is too long?
[21:02] <SpamapS> slangasek: waiting forever means never triggering filesystem
[21:02] <SpamapS> slangasek: I am reviewing portmap's code now.. its been carefully written not to depend on much.. so probably "not very long"
[21:05] <slangasek> still, it's a function of the system speed and of how much else might be running in parallel
[21:05] <slangasek> I don't have a good way to calculate a worst-case timeout for this
[21:06] <SpamapS> Well if all it does is exec, and listen.. then even the busiest booting system shouldn't take longer than 5s to pull that off.
[21:07] <slangasek> if you say so :)
[21:07] <slangasek> I don't feel strongly enough about it, really; we're obviously well into "that's not event-driven" territory
[21:07] <SpamapS> I don't want to guess about it either.
[21:08] <SpamapS> slangasek: indeed :(
[21:12] <robert_ancell> sladen, I'm not getting the gdm bug, but the last commit in git looks like it might be a good candidate for fixing the applets.  Building with that now
[21:13] <sladen> robert_ancell: I can reproduce it here and can test things for the next ~3-4 hours
[21:14] <robert_ancell> sladen, thanks
[21:20] <SpamapS> slangasek: even more fun, portmap forks then listens .. so there's nothing we can do to completely avoid the race. :-P
[21:20] <slangasek> SpamapS: hngh
[21:20] <slangasek> SpamapS: we can fix portmap?
[21:22] <SpamapS> slangasek: s/nothing/nothing simple/
[21:22] <slangasek> right :)
[21:23] <SpamapS> so I'd say just spin for 3 seconds. There is code in portmap that would cause blocking, but none of it is built into the ubuntu or debian portmaps.
[21:23] <SpamapS> It doesn't lookup hostname, or username, or anything. With our without the fork/listen race.. that window is really, really tiny.
[21:24] <SpamapS> s/our/or/
[21:24] <sm> hi all. I used https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/EnableProposed to work around https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eglibc/+bug/672352 , but the same procedure fails on a user's machine for some reason (config looks good but aptitude doesn't show the package version from -proposed). When is this likely to move from proposed to maverick ?
[21:37] <Keybuk> slangasek, SpamapS: so it'd be good to know when you're done what I need to change to make this much easier ;-)
[21:39] <slangasek> Keybuk: fixing 'start' to block when the job is already starting would help, of course; there does seem to be a general problem of processes that fork() before listen() not being properly trackable; oh, and fix 'and' :)
[21:41] <slangasek> SpamapS: btw, bug #525154 was the existing bug on nfs-utils for tracking this; can you merge those other bugs over?
[21:45] <Keybuk> slangasek: right, ideally you'd want Upstart to not say it was started until it was listening
[21:46] <Keybuk> though if it's got a fixed socket, would it not be easier to support socket activation for that case?
[21:46] <slangasek> probably
[21:46] <Keybuk> (I guess you'd still want both, because you might want to start portmap anyway)
[21:51] <robert_ancell> sladen, ok, that patch definitely fixed the applet issue.  I've uploaded it to natty, and you can try it from lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gtk/ubuntu if you want to check before the servers have built it
[21:57] <SpamapS> Keybuk: I do think with portmap, socket activation seems the right way to go. If I start a socket-activated job manually, does upstart's socket activation still handle the listening?
[21:57] <Keybuk> SpamapS: that's a limitation, right now if you're using socket activation, you cannot start or stop manually
[21:58] <Keybuk> (err, well, you can stop I guess ;-)
[22:00] <SpamapS> Keybuk: so if the job file exists, the port is opened?
[22:02] <SpamapS> slangasek: on bug 525154, ACK
[22:02] <Keybuk> SpamapS: no, it's entirely separate
[22:02] <Keybuk> (in 0.6)
[22:02] <Keybuk> it's even a separate process that does the listening
[22:03] <Keybuk> so if you started portmap, upstart wouldn't have the socket, and portmap would fail to bind
[22:08] <SpamapS> Keybuk: given portmap's really fast start times and lightweight nature.. I think that just making it socket activated would be enough.
[22:14] <Keybuk> well, not just
[22:14] <Keybuk> there's all that local filesystems /var/lib case, etc.
[22:24] <SpamapS> Also I can't seem to find the upstart bug that explains the issue with 'start' not waiting for the goal to be reached when its already in progress.
[22:49] <sladen> robert_ancell: libgtk2.0-0_2.23.3-1ubuntu3_i386.deb appears to fix 693737
[23:07] <slangasek> Keybuk: related is bug #610863: it would be nice if upstart could notice that the parent process hasn't exited yet, and only mark the job as started once it has
[23:11] <Keybuk> slangasek: *nods*
[23:11] <slangasek> is there a bug number for that?
[23:12] <slangasek> or shall I open one?
[23:12]  * Keybuk makes an LP spooling noise, not unlike LCARS
[23:13] <Keybuk> slangasek: bug #530779
[23:13] <slangasek> ok :)
[23:21] <ari-tczew> clipboard to natty doesn't work :/
[23:22] <ari-tczew> s/to/on
[23:24] <Keybuk> tbh, I've been having clipboard problems on maverick too
[23:24] <ari-tczew> Keybuk: I have this problem since last updates
[23:24] <yofel> yeah, but in natty copy and paste doesn't work at all from gtk apps, not even xclipboard
[23:24] <ari-tczew> it's makes work useless! (even for Ubuntu development)
[23:25] <yofel> well, make it copy, I can paste into gtk apps after copying from kde apps
[23:25] <ari-tczew> where can I report a bug?
[23:25] <ari-tczew> IMO it's high
[23:28] <Keybuk> ari-tczew: there's a "Report a Bug" menu option in every Help menu of Ubuntu
[23:28] <ari-tczew> probably I have to wait to fix in 2nd week of 2011...
[23:29] <Keybuk> it's natty
[23:29] <yofel> I'll file it against gtk
[23:29] <Keybuk> when you install a development distro, you should expect your computer to burst into flames
[23:29] <ari-tczew> Keybuk: love these talking
[23:30] <ari-tczew> Keybuk: I'm also making in a piece Ubuntu and this bug is stopping development
[23:30] <ari-tczew> yofel: are you going to report? because dunno whether shall I do it
[23:31] <Keybuk> ari-tczew: I tend to run releases on my day-to-day development machines
[23:31] <Keybuk> and have the development release on a laptop
[23:32] <Keybuk> that way the big issues don't cause me too much pain
[23:32] <ari-tczew> Keybuk: cool, welcome in the club
[23:32] <ari-tczew> Keybuk: are you affected  by this bug as me?
[23:32] <Keybuk> ari-tczew: as I said, I'm running a release (maverick) on this machine
[23:33] <Keybuk> so, no
[23:34] <ari-tczew> Keybuk: so you aren't. well, please stop talking me about risk of running devel distro because I'm aware of this
[23:34] <Keybuk> ari-tczew: clearly you're not, because you're complaining about a bug in a development distro preventing you from using your computer, and are worried that it won't be fixed during the holidays
[23:35] <Keybuk> the timescale for *any* Release Critical bug fix for natty, no matter how critical, is "Before The Release"
[23:35] <Keybuk> any shorter timescale is luck
[23:36] <yofel> ari-tczew: bug 693737)
[23:36] <ari-tczew> Keybuk: I wrote: bug doesn't block only day-to-day using my computer, also blocking Ubuntu development which I could prepare some packages this free time, so I'm not egoist
[23:36] <yofel> *sigh*
[23:37] <yofel> bug 693976
[23:37] <ari-tczew> Keybuk: summarizing: if bug is not fixed, Ubuntu can ki$$ my ass because I won't do anything
[23:37] <Keybuk> ari-tczew: there are plenty of ways to move text around without C&P
[23:37] <Keybuk> ari-tczew: bend over ;-)
[23:39] <ari-tczew> Keybuk: yes? which ways?
[23:39] <Keybuk> ari-tczew: save to text file, read in from text file, etc.
[23:40] <Keybuk> highlight, :w somefile
[23:40] <Keybuk> then :r otherfile
[23:40] <ari-tczew> yofel: I'm not sure whether this is the same bug. I  couldn't copy/paste everything without difference between gtk/qt
[23:41] <ari-tczew> Keybuk: sorry, it's useless for me
[23:41] <Keybuk> ari-tczew: then you are a very, very special person
[23:42] <yofel> well, I'm using KDE and have klipper running and synchronised to xclipboard, under those circumstances, only gtk applications are broken
[23:59] <Sarvatt> 2x (firefox-bin:30363): Gdk-CRITICAL **: IA__gdk_property_change: assertion `!window || GDK_WINDOW_IS_X11 (window)' failed errors in .xsession-errors every time a copy is performed here


[01:14] <tomreyn> azx: if this is a supported kubuntu release without major modifications you should probably file a bug on this. i'm not sure what the default screen lock application is. if you know, or can find out (maybe just ask again here), you should then file a bug against this package: ubuntu-bug <packagename>
[01:16] <tomreyn> also, as a workaround, when the screen locker fails to accept your credentials, you can try to press ctrl-alt-F3, which should give you a text login. there, you should still be able to login. or you can just press ctrl-alt-del (no need to login then) to have the system reboot cleanly
[01:17] <tomreyn> if this, too fails, there's yet another way to reboot somewhat gracefully:
[01:17] <tomreyn> !sysrq
[04:13] <him-cesjf> Hi, I am having a unsual problem in tty where the moment I input login name in tty2 (or any other), it automatically goes to next line to password without letting me input password thereby asking for login name again after giving an error that "Login Incorrect". It then keeps on showing prompt for login and password without letting me input.
[04:14] <him-cesjf> an*
[07:08] <lordievader> Good morning
[09:59] <IrcsomeBot1> Rifat Sayem was added by: Rifat Sayem
[10:11] <madmouser1> morning lordievader
[10:14] <lordievader> 👋
[10:31] <BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
[17:55] <Nomad_> ugh, what's with the libavcodec in 18.10.  broken dependencies everywhere
[18:04] <Nomad_> crap, removing that just removed plasma-desktop and other kde things.
[18:04] <Nomad_> Next time I shut down my laptop, KDE is gone
[18:11] <Nomad_> yep, can't install kubuntu-desktop or plasma-desktop
[18:11] <diogenes_> Nomad_, not always, sometimes it shows some dependencies but the name is shows different names
[18:11] <diogenes_> you you might as well be perfectly fine
[18:12] <genii> Probably virtual packages
[18:12] <Nomad_> I just tried an "apt update && apt install kubuntu-desktop plasma-desktop"  and both errorfed out on things that link backwards to that library and some others.
[18:12] <Nomad_> it uninstalled "openshot" which I'm using to edit some team videos at work.  it's gone
[18:13] <diogenes_> :) welcome to dependency hell
[18:13] <Nomad_> and I can't resintall it for the same reason
[18:13] <Nomad_> yeah, no kidding.  and I'm running on cosmic based sources.list,  with kubuntu-ppa as well
[21:05] <epsilonKNOT> I am trying to reduce my resolution on my laptop to 1920x1080 from 3200x1800 but the nvidia x server center is not allowing me to do tat
[21:05] <epsilonKNOT> any clues on how to reduce the resolution?
[22:30] <hay207> Hi guys
[22:31] <hay207> I just viewed gnome log viewer, seems more nice than ksyslog
[22:31] <hay207> How to check if my filesystem is checked at boot?
[22:32] <hay207> i just recovered from a bad superblock
[22:32] <hay207> manually


[00:11] <keres> hi
[00:11] <keres> anyone know how to get a Kodak camera to work with cheese?
[03:43] <Regor> how to enable emojis ? what packages it needs ? on bionic
[09:51] <brainwash> Regor: I would install the package "fonts-noto-color-emoji" and see if that helps
[11:23] <Regor> brainwash: i installed it but nothing appears as a emoji option
[11:24] <Regor> dont know if i need to enable it in settings
[11:25] <brainwash> Regor: in which application?
[11:25] <brainwash> it could be an application specific problem
[11:25] <Regor> fonts-noto-color-emoji
[11:26] <brainwash> that is a font
[11:26] <Regor> yeah
[11:26] <brainwash> where do you try to insert or view emojis?
[11:27] <Regor> i tried almost all applications.... FF,mail. weechat......etc
[11:28] <Regor> update me if you get done
[11:30] <Regor> https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/06/use-emoji-linux-ubuntu-apps
[11:33] <brainwash> "You won’t see the option provided in non-GTK apps, like Firefox, Google Chrome, or LibreOffice."
[11:33] <brainwash> maybe that is the issue
[11:33] <brainwash> and weechat is a terminal application
[11:37] <brainwash> 🤔
[11:56] <Regor> brainwash: i see it now on weechat !
[12:14] <Regor> ctrl + semicolon  gives me emoji option
[12:25] <Regor> 😁