[09:02] <robitaille> @topic
[04:30] <Spec> i'll try to be back here in ~30 minutes, i have to go somewhere though. :-/
[04:59] <YukiCuss> Ping.
[05:00] <Spec> flint: hello
[05:01] <flint> Spec, good morning from the Frozen North....
[05:01] <YukiCuss> flint, Spec, the hot down-under here?
[05:01] <Seveas> Spec, YukiCuss: good to see you around - there's at least 2 points from the agenda that can be handled
[05:01] <Seveas> I'm afraid it was too short notice for a few others
[05:01] <jsgotangco> ahh .au team
[05:02] <YukiCuss> :)
[05:03] <flint> Seveas, based upon the current situation, I would wonder who is here from Media? :^)  I am just here to get Nick Wheeler as a MOTU
[05:03] <Seveas> flint, today no one is appointed MOTU - it's all about membership
[05:03] <jsgotangco> that's TB
[05:03] <Seveas> Kamion, elmo, mako - ping
[05:03] <Seveas> 16:03 UTC here
[05:04] <Spec> flint: membership first
[05:04] <flint> Seveas, that is not what was said two weeks ago.  can you send the agenda url to the screen?
[05:04] <Seveas> wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[05:04] <YukiCuss> flint, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda ?
[05:04] <flint> Seveas, thanks.
[05:05] <Seveas> flint, you need to be a member before you can become a MOTU - for membership a cheerleading squad from the community is needed
[05:05] <flint> YukiCuss, thanks even more :^)
[05:05] <Seveas> for becoming motu you need other motus to vouch for you
[05:05] <flint> Seveas, I represent the cheerleading squad.  I am not interested in being a member of anything.
[05:06] <Seveas> flint, ok, put on your dress and start dancing around
[05:06] <flint> I was drafted into being the first DC LOCO
[05:06] <Spec> flint's my cheerleader? dear lord...
[05:06] <jsgotangco> what happened?
[05:06] <flint> Seveas, my dancing is kinda like watching the Hindenburg land at Lakehurst NJ...
[05:07] <Seveas> flint, that's way better than mine so go for it
[05:07] <Seveas> anyway - the idle times of the CC members aren't promising...
[05:07] <jsgotangco> there's one
[05:07] <Seveas> hi mark!
[05:07] <sabdfl> hi folks
[05:07] <YukiCuss> sabdfl! :)
[05:07] <sabdfl> sorry to be late
[05:07] <jsgotangco> 2 mor
[05:07] <jsgotangco> e
[05:07] <Seveas> you're the first one here for a change
[05:08] <jsgotangco> sabdfl: actually you're not late
[05:08] <flint> sabdfl, Hey Mark!
[05:08] <sabdfl> flint! long time no see
[05:08] <sabdfl> CC meting due now?
[05:08] <Seveas> yes
[05:08] <flint> sabdfl, trying to stay out of trouble... :^)
[05:08] <sabdfl> meeting, that is
[05:08] <Seveas> kamion/mako/elmo not in sight
[05:08] <sabdfl> flint: you and me both
[05:09] <jsgotangco> we seem to have low attendance today
[05:09] <sabdfl> ok, have pinged the guys, will sms kamion and elmo too, sec
[05:09] <elmo> I'm here
[05:09] <Seveas> hi elmo!
[05:10] <flint> sabdfl, if you want I can go wake up mdz :^) ...nah...
[05:10] <neuralis> i can sms mako, if need be.
[05:10] <Seveas> flint, mdz isn't on the CC ;)
[05:10] <ogra> flint, hey, youre here to work, not for your hobbies :)
[05:10] <flint> ogra, lol
[05:11] <flint> ogra, waking mdz is a religious experience!
[05:11] <highvoltage> flint: what is this about? :) wiki.ubuntu.com/gins
[05:11] <jsgotangco> gins?
[05:11] <flint> highvoltage, changed the name to wiki.ubuntu.com/gin like the drink mostly...
[05:11] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:12] <sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[05:13] <Spec> links2 doesn't support ssl :-/
[05:13] <sabdfl> vidya was asking earlier about recognition for hte Ubuntu Women's team
[05:13] <mdz> flint: you are a menace to sleep
[05:14] <sabdfl> elmo: are you happy to start without Kamion and mako, and then we can ask them to +1 / -1 member candidates based on the log and email?
[05:14] <elmo> sabdfl: sure, if you want
[05:14] <sabdfl> ok, lets do that
[05:14] <Amaranth> kamion said something about picking someone up from school
[05:14] <sabdfl> morning mdz
[05:14] <sabdfl> locoteams!
[05:14] <flint> gin is gnome instant nationalizaiton, a command line tool to change languages.
[05:14] <flint> they need it in edubuntu classrooms.... not a big deal...
[05:14] <flint> talked to olli about it and he seemd to be ok with it.
[05:14] <sabdfl> YukiCuss: ping
[05:14] <flint> later refactor in python and hook it to a gui if you want.
[05:14] <YukiCuss> sabdfl, hello! :)
[05:14] <jsgotangco> flint: shhh
[05:14] <sabdfl> tell us about ubuntu down under
[05:15] <flint> mdz damn, good morning!!!
[05:15] <YukiCuss> We're just starting up work, more or less, but so far it's looking very promising.
[05:15] <Seveas> gotta love random disconnects...
[05:15] <Seveas> did I miss anything?
[05:15] <Amaranth> i don't think so
[05:15] <mdz> flint: I've been up since 0600, but damn you anyway
[05:15] <YukiCuss> We've had our first meeting (just today), and we've got a roadmap organised (more or less) for how we're going to tackle various projects around here.
[05:15] <sabdfl> Seveas: just getting started
[05:15] <Seveas> thanks
[05:15] <sabdfl> YukiCuss: where's here?
[05:15] <YukiCuss> sabdfl, here is Australia. :)
[05:15] <jsgotangco> that's a big place
[05:15] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:15] <YukiCuss> We've got members all along the east coast so far.
[05:16] <YukiCuss> And we're hoping that we can find some more elsewhere.
[05:16] <elmo> (Kamion is on his way)
[05:16] <Seveas> YukiCuss, cool, what are you focussing on as team?
[05:16] <sabdfl> YukiCuss: nice wiki page, wide spread of members across the country
[05:16] <sabdfl> YukiCuss: are you all setup w.r.t. virtual server if you want it?
[05:16] <YukiCuss> Seveas, at the moment we're looking at the three major groups; home users, business, and school.
[05:16] <Kamion> hi, sorry I'm late, was picking the child up from school and had to run an errand in the meantime
[05:16] <YukiCuss> sabdfl, yep, we've got that pretty much organised, just letting the delay of email take its toll :)
[05:17] <sabdfl> Kamion: no worries, mate
[05:17] <sabdfl> g'day
[05:17] <sabdfl> ok, YukiCuss, are you the group leader, have you had any process to confirm that internally?
[05:17] <Kamion> sigh
[05:17] <YukiCuss> Particularly we're inspecting schools; demonstrations of how Ubuntu can be used inside a school, and also FOSS.
[05:18] <YukiCuss> sabdfl, I am the group leader, and it's been confirmed that I'm the team contact at a meeting.
[05:18] <YukiCuss> We had our first one today, it worked out well. :)
[05:18] <Seveas> YukiCuss, do you promote edubuntu too?
[05:18] <ogra> YukiCuss, you should get in contact with the edubuntu community :)
[05:18] <sabdfl> it's nice for the CC to have a primary contact for a loco team - so that's great
[05:18] <sabdfl> anything you'd like from the CC?
[05:18] <YukiCuss> Seveas, ogra, of course.
[05:19] <jsgotangco> increase the sheilas!
[05:19] <jsgotangco> =)
[05:19] <YukiCuss> sabdfl, at the moment, we're hoping that we can get some form of priority with ShipIt; we'd like to be able to get Dapper out here as quickly as we can, before the rush.
[05:19] <sabdfl> jerome, you suggesting we have sufficient sheep?
[05:19] <YukiCuss> (rush of downloads begins, that is; I think the convenience of a real CD will overwhelm them :))
[05:20] <YukiCuss> Other than that, we're going to keep self-regulating (meeting every fortnight has been agreed on and seems to be convenient), and see how we can let our projects take off.
[05:20] <sabdfl> YukiCuss: local production an distribution depends on having a company locally that can do it well at great prices, if you have nominations, the right person to ping is hmb
[05:20] <sabdfl> on freenode
[05:20] <sabdfl><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:20] <YukiCuss> Thanks!
[05:21] <sabdfl> YukiCuss: we've yet to find a regional company that can do it cost effectively, but would love to get it working well
[05:21] <YukiCuss> sabdfl, we've got a few people who are very interested in doing local mailouts.
[05:21] <Seveas> YukiCuss, local mailouts rock
[05:21] <sabdfl> we can probably do high priority shipment after release if you have a specific function or requirement
[05:22] <Seveas> it's quite popular here in NL too
[05:22] <sabdfl> anyway, thank you for checking in, and thanks for setting up the team
[05:22] <YukiCuss> No problems! ^^
[05:22] <YukiCuss> Thank you.
[05:22] <Seveas> YukiCuss, and sleep well ;)
[05:22] <sabdfl> Kuyaedz?
[05:22] <Seveas> not around
[05:22] <Seveas> tried to ping him to no avail
[05:22] <sabdfl> ok, let's move on
[05:23] <Seveas> members or women?
[05:23] <sabdfl> sheilas!
[05:23] <jsgotangco> haha
[05:23] <ogra> heh
[05:23] <Seveas> :)
[05:23] <sabdfl> is svaksha here?
[05:23] <svaksha> yes , Vidya Ayer here
[05:23] <Seveas> "#ubuntu-women on Freenode - officially recognised or not."
[05:23] <sabdfl> svaksha: would you introduce Ubuntu Women, please?
[05:24] <Seveas> is there such a thing as an official channel?
[05:24] <svaksha> sure,
[05:24] <svaksha> well I dont about the official bit ...
[05:25] <sabdfl> svaksha pinged me earlier by email
[05:25] <svaksha> Ubuntu Women is a group functioning under Ubuntu to provide a platform and encouragement for women to contribute to Ubuntu-Linux Membership is open to all.
[05:25] <sabdfl> asking about official recognition of UbuntuWomen by Canonical, and I think recognition by the CC is more important
[05:25] <svaksha> the non-official part i heard from another forums member Susana
[05:25] <svaksha> ok
[05:26] <sabdfl> svaksha: are there several different groups that are related to "women in ubuntu", or is your group the primary initiative?
[05:26] <Seveas> I realy don't like to see women as a separate group, sounds very sexist - but I'm probably missing something
[05:27] <elmo> Seveas: you are missing something
[05:27] <jsgotangco> Seveas: we'll do ubuntu-blokes don't worry
[05:27] <elmo> Seveas: you should probably review the history of debian women
[05:27] <elmo> Seveas: that deeply flawed argument has come up before
[05:27] <sabdfl> i tihnk it's very worthwhile to have a group focused on this
[05:28] <svaksha> after I wrote to you last year , panickthumb from the forums mentiioned about this and I asked him to contact you or canonical directly
[05:28] <Seveas> elmo, ok
[05:28] <sabdfl> as long as we never have folks suggesting that the ONLY place for women in ubuntu is that group
[05:28] <Kamion> right
[05:28] <highvoltage> i've been on the debian-women mailing list before, i've never seen so many "*hugs*" on a list before :)
[05:28] <sabdfl> are there any other comments on the idea of having a group focused on "women in ubuntu"?
[05:28] <svaksha> sabdfl, i dont know what happened after that but I noticed a URL registered in Dec and in Jan got your OK
[05:28] <ogra> highvoltage, you dont share a list with dholbach, do you ?
[05:29] <ogra> :)
[05:29] <sabdfl> there is some concern that different groups are trying to achieve the same thing
[05:29] <highvoltage> ogra: yep :) debian-women have mor!
[05:29] <sabdfl> i would like to make sure everyone is talking together
[05:29] <jsgotangco> sabdfl: the u-w list has been pretty active (im subscribed)
[05:29] <jsgotangco> there's lots of promise
[05:29] <sabdfl> jsgotangco: me too :-)
[05:29] <jsgotangco> hah
 i've been on the debian-women mailing list before, i've never seen so many "*hugs*" on a list before <-- sounds like a list for dholbach
[05:30] <sabdfl> svaksha: can we consolidate the different domains that have been registered by different people?
[05:30] <sabdfl> and make sure everyone's working on the same initiative?
[05:30] <sabdfl> are there any reasons why that should not happen?
[05:30] <highvoltage> i think that ubuntu-women might be a good idea, not as a feminist activist group, or as a group for just women, but as a forum to discuss the general involvement of women in the project
[05:30] <svaksha> no
[05:31] <G0SUB> the issue is that there are a lot of unofficial UW sites / blogs / wikis ... we should try and get them together to avoid redundancy
[05:31] <highvoltage> and to monitor current community activities and evaluate how we can involve the other half of the world population in ubuntu
[05:31] <sabdfl> svaksha: so have you chatted with susana, and you're certain that she's happy to work with you?
[05:31] <Seveas> highvoltage, agreed, as long as it's NEVER going to be women-welcom-only or women-only-welcome-there which is what I'm a bit afraid of
[05:31] <sabdfl> Seveas: we will make certain of that, yes
[05:31] <highvoltage> Seveas: agreed, I would think that 'they' feel the same
[05:31] <svaksha> i did ask her to bring up the issue on the list
[05:31] <ogra> Seveas, highvoltage i think thats up to the team to define itself ;)
[05:31] <Kamion> highvoltage: mentorship seems valuable too
[05:32] <jsgotangco> yes
[05:32] <jsgotangco> its been asked
[05:32] <Seveas> ogra, true that
[05:32] <svaksha> its not women only ...please read this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWomen
[05:32] <sabdfl> i'm pretty certain mako would be thrilled with this :-)
[05:32] <Seveas> do I dare ask why?
[05:32] <highvoltage> ogra: also agreed, it was just my attempt to explain that a group about women in Ubuntu may add value
[05:32] <sabdfl> very nicely done wiki page, svaksha
[05:32] <Spec> How many members are on the u-w list?
[05:32] <svaksha> thanks
[05:33] <svaksha> around 70+
[05:33] <Kamion> I like how that page lists technical skills first
[05:33] <svaksha> yes but that scares away newcomers so Clytie toned it down a little
[05:33] <Seveas> the wikipage looks very nice indeed
[05:33] <Kamion> a lot of women's-groups pages I've seen have almost seemed embarrassed at the idea that technical skills might be involved, which always seemed incongruous to me - I like what you have there
[05:34] <Kamion> oh, is that Clytie Siddall (spelling?)
[05:34] <svaksha> yep
[05:34] <Kamion> cool, encountered her sending huge piles of Vietnamese translations
[05:34] <svaksha> :)
[05:34] <flint> The Ubuntu community is very well represented by the male persuasion, yet women are a precious precious to this.  As an individual married for over a quarter-century let me give you all some advice.  They want a room, they get a room.
[05:35] <sabdfl>  #ubuntu-women it is then ;-)
[05:35] <svaksha> thanks :)
[05:35] <jsgotangco> yay!
[05:35] <sabdfl> ok, any further comments?
[05:35] <highvoltage> :)
[05:35] <Seveas> yes, one comment
[05:35] <Seveas> Welcome!
[05:35] <ogra> :)
[05:35] <sabdfl> ditto :-)
[05:36] <svaksha> thanks to you all for the support and the CC too :)
[05:36] <Seveas> psusi, 42
[05:36] <jsgotangco> haha
[05:36] <flint> psusi, if that is all you ever worry about...
[05:36] <Seveas> ok, shall we move on to new members?
[05:36] <flint> :^)
[05:36] <sabdfl> psusi: there are greater mysteries in life
[05:36] <sabdfl> like handbags
[05:36] <sabdfl> i'm doing some research in this regard
[05:36] <azeem> psusi: AIUI, the channel is welcoming male people as well?
[05:36] <Spec> heh
[05:37] <neuralis> sabdfl: it's a dead end. give up and run away while you still can.
[05:37] <Seveas> sabdfl, they come from the bermuda triangle it seems
[05:37] <sabdfl> ok
[05:37] <Seveas> half the world can disappear into it
[05:37] <sabdfl> members!
[05:37] <Whatsisname> supposedly one guy completely figured out how women work
[05:37] <Seveas> Spec, your 3-liner please
[05:37] <Whatsisname> but he died of laughing before he could tell anyone
[05:37] <Seveas> Spec == NicholasWeeler
[05:38] <sabdfl> Whatsisname: easy, tiger
[05:38] <Spec> Hello, I'm Nicholas Wheeler, and I'm applying for membership to help with the Ubuntu cause. I'm interested in becomming a MOTU eventually.
[05:38] <Spec> Currently I'm involved in bug triaging of all sorts -- particularly interested in making the science packages, err, work.
[05:38] <Seveas> is the MOTU cheerleading squad arround to support Spec ?
[05:38] <flint> I am here to vouch for Nick.  He is a good hack.
[05:39] <flint> elkner would be here but he is busy teaching newer hacks.
[05:39] <ogra> he wrote a great Howto on the wiki for mondo/mindi use :)
[05:39] <Seveas> \o/ from me for doing bug triaging
[05:39] <Spec> I also wrote a how-to for the broadcom 43xx card
[05:39] <flint> ogra, indeed he did.
[05:39] <Seveas> we need much more bug triagers
[05:40] <flint> Seveas, i fully intend to understand Malone, I promise I will if you pass Nick.
[05:40] <flint> :^)
[05:40] <Seveas> Spec, your wikipage is not completely clear - for how long have you been contributong to Ubuntu?
[05:40] <Spec> Contributing, only a couple of months.
[05:41] <Spec> I've been using it since hoary I think.
[05:41] <psusi> hehe... 42
[05:41] <Seveas> couple of months sounds good, any MOTU to confirm that?
[05:41] <Seveas> ogra, ?
[05:42] <flint> I have not status here but I can confirm that by direct observation.
[05:42] <Seveas> flint, how is the DC loco doing, dormant or active?
[05:42] <ogra> Seveas, he is the webmaster of the DC LoCo team, when went that online ;)
[05:42] <flint> Seveas, the DC loco is represented by Kjcole who just joined.  It is VERY active.  ask him.
[05:43] <Spec> It is very active. :)
[05:43] <Seveas> nice
[05:43] <ogra> Spec, are you innvolved in the edubuntu deployment thing in DC ?
[05:43] <flint> kjcole, you need to say something glib, I know you can...
[05:43] <kjcole> Hi all.  Sorry to be late. ;-)
[05:43] <Seveas> hi Kevin - please help Spec by cheerleading
[05:43] <Spec> ogra: yeap
[05:43] <ogra> cool !
[05:43] <kjcole> The DC LoCo's now got a few active bzr projects starting up.
[05:43] <sabdfl> Spec: how was FOSE?
[05:44] <Spec> very very successful, gave out 1300 ubuntu cds
[05:44] <spacey> thats quite a lot
[05:44] <Spec> (+1300 opensuse, but that doesn't matter)
[05:44] <Seveas> WOW
[05:44] <kjcole> Nick and I represented the LoCo at FOSE, and it was a great show.
[05:44] <Spec> We were very popular at the convention.
[05:44] <Kamion> that MondoMindi page is pretty hideously hackish; can we please get the existing packages up to scratch instead?
[05:44] <Spec> Being next to the bathrooms has it's advantages, i'll have to say...
[05:44] <Seveas> (I need some point of reference - how big is the DC area, how many people live there?)
[05:45] <sabdfl> +1 from me on Spec for membership based on advocacy and bug triage, not sure if elmo or kamion have additional questions
[05:45] <Spec> Kamion: I believe in dapper they are up to scratch, in breezy it's a lost cause.
[05:45] <kjcole> We also had the trifold Ubuntu brochures that I picked up at UBZ and handed those out as well.
[05:45] <Kamion> ah, I see that in the wiki page now, although it's kind of brief and easy to skip over, maybe a bit more text is called for so that people don't go to more work than necessary
[05:45] <Kamion> fair enough
[05:45] <kjcole> (Unfortunately, I didn't have quite as many of those brochures.  And I now wish I'd had bumper stickers as well.)
[05:46] <elmo> yeah, kamion++, that wiki page is making me cry
[05:46] <flint> Kamion, I am responsible for the hackishness of these pages, not nick.
[05:46] <jsgotangco> kjcole: wink and you shall receive (hopefully)
[05:46] <Spec> I'll edit flint's work to make it prettier :)
[05:46] <elmo> if the "Not needed for >= Dapper" bit at the top could be highlighted, that owuld be good
[05:46] <elmo> but in any event ack from me
[05:46] <Kamion> other than that, no questions, the other work seems good, and I probably need to have a look over the bcm43xx page myself ...
[05:46] <kjcole> jsgotangco, Yeah.  My fault.  I should have thought about those sooner.
[05:47] <Kamion> so +1 from me
[05:47] <Spec> Kamion: It's pretty good, but there's lots of guess-work to get it working still. I think that's the driver's fault.
[05:47] <sabdfl> so +1 from Kamion?
[05:47] <sabdfl> done
[05:47] <sabdfl> welcome aboard
[05:47] <Seveas> ok, congratz Spec !
[05:47] <ogra> Spec, welcome :)
[05:47] <Spec> thank you :)
[05:47] <flint> thank you all.
[05:47] <sabdfl> i'll approve it in LP
[05:47] <Spec> I have to thank my cheerleaders, as well :)
[05:47] <Kamion> Seveas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_DC
[05:47] <kjcole> jelkner, you're just in time to congratulate Spec... ;-)
[05:47] <jelkner> congratulations!
[05:47] <sabdfl> hey jeff
[05:48] <jelkner> the DC LoCo needed a MOTU
[05:48] <sabdfl> victor!
[05:48] <jelkner> sabdfl: hi
[05:48] <sabdfl> bstqc_ostl around?
[05:48] <jelkner> yeah DC LoCo Team!
[05:48] <Seveas> probably not
[05:48] <jsgotangco> sabdfl: i think you met this guy
[05:49] <sabdfl> i've met victor in beijing, would be lovely to have him as a member but i don't think the TZ works for this meeting
[05:49] <Seveas> I spoke to him earlier, sounds like a good candidate
[05:49] <Spec> (So how do I get a ubuntu/memeber cloak? :p)
[05:49] <sabdfl> yes, very much so
[05:49] <sabdfl> but lets get him on board later
[05:49] <Seveas> Spec, poke me in a /msg so I don't forget to do that
[05:49] <jsgotangco> i can vouch for him too
[05:49] <ogra> ah, cool, he's the guy who sends the pdf testreports to -devel :)
[05:49] <jsgotangco> yeah
[05:50] <dholbach> yes, I'd like to see him as a member too
[05:50] <Seveas> BlueT_, (Matthew Lien) is around it seems
[05:50] <sabdfl> BlueT_: ping
[05:50] <dholbach> I communicated with him for the test plans and he has great ideas and put incredible work into testing hoary and breezy
[05:51] <kjcole> BTW, since I arrived a little late, if it hadn't already been mentioned FOSE is in it's 30th year, as the largest US federal government computer convention...
[05:51] <Seveas> BlueT_, is not around I guess
[05:51] <Seveas> and neither is Kuyaedz
[05:52] <sabdfl> kjcole: do you think it';s a conference that should be on silbs' list?
[05:52] <Seveas> that only leaves the topic of the next meeting. I think we should set a time right now
[05:52] <sabdfl> ok, I will update the wiki page for the meeting
[05:52] <sabdfl> when last did we do a UTC-morning meeting?
[05:52] <sabdfl> for the AsiaPac characters?
[05:52] <Seveas> Kuyaedz, right on time!
[05:52] <sabdfl> ah, welcome Kuyaedz
[05:53] <Seveas> sabdfl, I think it would be nice to have an early morning meeting
[05:53] <Kuyaedz> Just got out of class :)  ..glad someone came looking for me, I didn't know when this was.
[05:53] <jelkner> ok if i steal Spec so i can get some work outta him?
[05:53] <sabdfl> Seveas: define early
[05:53] <kjcole> sabdfl, I'll check.  (I'm not familiar with what's type of stuff's already there, though I think I stumbled across that list before...)
[05:53] <sabdfl> jelkner: all yours
[05:53] <jelkner> now that his head is all swelled and all
[05:53] <Seveas> sabdfl, after Kuyaedz' topics have been handled
[05:53] <Spec> thank you all :p
[05:53] <jelkner> cya all later
[05:53] <Seveas> Kuyaedz, please introduce Ubuntu-Utah to us
[05:54] <sabdfl> cheers spec, jelkner
[05:54] <Kuyaedz> Ubuntu-Utah is a loco team I started a few months ago.  We've steadily been growing but are still relatively small.
[05:55] <Seveas> how many members?
[05:55] <Kuyaedz> 11 members registered on the launchpad page, but I know of ~4-5 more that aren't 'official' yet.
[05:55] <Seveas> around 10 - not too bad
[05:56] <Kuyaedz> We've got members at 3 Utah Universities, which I think is helpful.
[05:56] <Seveas> not bad, 10 active members is good for a starting team
[05:56] <Kuyaedz> We've set a goal to double that by Dapper release.
[05:57] <Seveas> What is the team doing to promote Ubuntu besides handing out CD's?
[05:57] <sabdfl> Kuyaedz: how active are you in the forums?
[05:58] <Kuyaedz> Well the CD distribution and team recruitment are the short-term goals that we're currently working on.  In the long term we would like to present school districts with Ubuntu/Edubuntu.
[05:58] <Kuyaedz> sadbfl: I have roughly 750 forum posts.
[05:58] <Seveas> Kuyaedz, nice
[05:59] <ogra> yeah !
[05:59] <Seveas> I'm quite happy with how the Utah team is forming the way I see now
[05:59] <sabdfl> Kuyaedz: have you seen the proposals about a forums council?
[05:59] <Seveas> Kuyaedz, is there a specifi reason to use ubuntu-utah.org instead of ut.ubuntu-us.org?
[05:59] <Kuyaedz> Seveas: I'm glad to hear that.  I have the day off today & was hoping to get more team-related work done.
[05:59] <Kuyaedz> sadbfl: I have not.
[06:00] <Kuyaedz> Seveas: There is not.  I did not know who to contact concerning an official team site so I registered one.  Also we have requested an official mailing list 3x with no responses.
[06:00] <Kamion> Kuyaedz: was that request to jdub?
[06:00] <Seveas> Kuyaedz, I was going to ask what you would like to see from the CC, but that's clear now
[06:01] <sabdfl> Kuyaedz: np, i appreciate your initiative in going ahead
[06:01] <G0SUB> IMHO the mailing list creation is a bit of a bottleneck as jdub is a very busy guy
[06:01] <sabdfl> G0SUB: would it help if we put mailing lists into LP?
[06:01] <Kuyaedz> We've been using a google-groups system for the time being.
[06:01] <Seveas> Who is the contact for *.ubuntu-us.org, smurf or someone else?
[06:01] <G0SUB> sabdfl: yes it will
[06:01] <sabdfl> G0SUB: i think you mean "yes it might" ;-)
[06:01] <Seveas> sabdfl, or simply give jdub an assistant
[06:01] <G0SUB> sabdfl: heh ...
[06:02] <G0SUB> Seveas: ++
[06:02] <sabdfl> but, we've been looking at that here this week
[06:02] <sabdfl> we can do it, it will just take a little while
[06:02] <G0SUB> sabdfl: what about giving jdub an assistant?
[06:02] <G0SUB> I can help with this
[06:02] <jsgotangco> fridge jr
[06:02] <Kuyaedz> Concerning the mailing list I contacted MathiasUlrich & also sent an email to Jeff Waugh.
[06:02] <jsgotangco> heh
[06:02] <sabdfl> G0SUB: offer to help, i'm sure he will accept
[06:03] <G0SUB> sabdfl: should I mail him directly?
[06:03] <Seveas> G0SUB, put my name in that mail to - I want to help there if possible
[06:03] <G0SUB> sabdfl: fine, I will CC you
[06:03] <G0SUB> thanks :)
[06:04] <Kuyaedz> Seveas: I was wondering if it would be possible to get a layout template so our team site could nearly match the look/feel of the central.
[06:04] <sabdfl> Kuyaedz: i think that's all public
[06:04] <Seveas> Kuyaedz, as you can see the organizational things are sometimes problematic - but it'll be solved soon I guess. I will keep poking jdub/g0sub and smurf about it
[06:05] <Kuyaedz> Seveas: thank you
[06:05] <Amaranth> when did launchpad turn into sourceforge?
[06:05] <G0SUB> oh, one more thing ... can we put up the moinmoin, drupal themes used in u.c & fridge somewhere?
[06:05] <Seveas> Kuyaedz, I have a PHP based template for ubuntulinux.nl - you might want to look at that after the meeting, but poke me after the meeting for that
[06:05] <G0SUB> so that people can reuse them?
[06:05] <sabdfl> Amaranth: when some of us had a spare weekend
[06:05] <Amaranth> sabdfl: hehe
[06:05] <G0SUB> haha
[06:05] <Kuyaedz> Seveas: will do
[06:05] <sabdfl> ok
[06:05] <ogra> Amaranth, pfft, sourceforge is sooo last century
[06:05] <Amaranth> seriously, about the only thing missing is bzr write
[06:05] <sabdfl> Kuyaedz: thanks for your work on Utah
[06:05] <jsgotangco> sometimes its like friendster
[06:05] <sabdfl> what about your membership?
[06:05] <Seveas> Amaranth, supermirror
[06:05] <sabdfl> Amaranth: it's coming
[06:05] <Kuyaedz> sadbfl: happy to do it. I just wish we had more time/resources :)
[06:06] <sabdfl> fairly soon, as it happens
[06:06] <Amaranth> cool
[06:06] <Amaranth> then i can use launchpad for alacarte instead of gnome cvs (eww)
[06:06] <Seveas> Kuyaedz, lack of time is a global problem ;)

[06:06] <G0SUB> [repeat]  can we put up the moinmoin, drupal themes used in u.c & fridge somewhere?
[06:06] <Seveas> Kuyaedz, habe you collected a cheerleeding swuad to support your membership application?
[06:07] <sabdfl> G0SUB: speak with henrik, they are already public somewhere
[06:07] <sabdfl> Kuyaedz: membership?
[06:07] <G0SUB> sabdfl: ok, thanks
[06:07] <Kuyaedz> Seveas: Well I was going to see what members of the team could come along, but even I didn't have much notice on the meeting :)
[06:07] <Seveas> Kuyaedz, true. it was very short notice
[06:07] <Kuyaedz> sabdfl: What can I tell you about membership?  Is there more I can do?
[06:08] <sabdfl> your wiki page is excellent
[06:08] <sabdfl> very happy to see the laptop testing info
[06:09] <Kuyaedz> sabdfl: I was hoping to update a few of those with Dapper results before the meeting..
[06:09] <sabdfl> ok, +1 from me on membership and loco leadership, kamion and elmo may have more questions
[06:09] <elmo> +1
[06:09] <Kuyaedz> sabdfl: thank you.
[06:10] <Seveas> \o/ from me, wikipage looks good, active since october and doing great things in Utah
[06:10] <Kuyaedz> elmo: again, thank you.
[06:10] <sabdfl> +1 on the elmo-statue from you, Kuyaedz?
[06:10] <G0SUB> Kuyaedz: awesome! that's great :)
[06:10] <Seveas> sabdfl, yes, we need an elmo statue
[06:11] <G0SUB> sabdfl: heh, I already spoke about it in the last meet
[06:11] <G0SUB> wrt the statue
[06:11] <sabdfl> Kuyaedz: have you applied for membership in ubuntumembers in LP?
[06:11] <Kuyaedz> sabdfl: I did
[06:12] <Kuyaedz> If there is anything else you'd like to see me do, or the team, don't hesitate to ask.
[06:12] <sabdfl> Kuyaedz: i don't see you in the list
[06:12] <sabdfl> what's your LP nick? display name?
[06:12] <sabdfl> or real name?
[06:12] <Kuyaedz> sabdfl: kuyaedz or christer-edwards
[06:12] <Seveas> kuyaedz
[06:12] <Seveas> I see him in the list
[06:13] <sabdfl> ok, it would be nice to put your proper name in the LP account
[06:13] <Kamion> ok, sorry I've been discussing things elsewhere, +1 from me
[06:13] <sabdfl> done
[06:13] <sabdfl> welcome!
[06:13] <Seveas> Kamion, great
[06:13] <Kuyaedz> thank you.
[06:13] <Seveas> Kuyaedz, welcome aboard!
[06:13] <Kamion> Kuyaedz: and thanks for the JigdoDownloadHowto page, I've been meaning to write something like that for a while
[06:13] <Kuyaedz> I'm very excited. thank you.
[06:13] <sabdfl> good work!
[06:13] <G0SUB> Kuyaedz: welcome!
[06:13] <dholbach> congratulations Kuyaedz
[06:13] <jsgotangco> congrats
[06:14] <highvoltage> congrats, Kuyaedz
[06:14] <ogra> congrats Kuyaedz
[06:14] <Seveas> sabdfl, about the meeting time, given that the CC is in the UK largely 8/9AM UTC-ish?
[06:14] <sabdfl> Kamion: what's the drill on the meeting agenda page, should i delete the folks approved in the last meeting, make a note of those approved here, and delete those who did not show up?
[06:14] <Kamion> sabdfl: yes, yes, no make a note of those who didn't show up
[06:14] <sabdfl> Seveas: i'd prefer 10am, and excuse elmo :-)
[06:14] <Seveas> sabdfl, usually I take care of the editing ;)
[06:14] <Kuyaedz> I'm glad I made it in time.  The councilagenda page said "TBA".  I was just hoping someone would contact me
[06:14] <G0SUB> yay! jdub
[06:14] <Seveas> Kuyaedz, I tried
[06:15] <Kamion> can we get mako at 10am UK time?
[06:15] <elmo> (fwiw, I can get up, if I need to)
[06:15] <Kamion> ok, if we've got elmo then it doesn't matter
[06:15] <Kuyaedz> Seveas: atoponce mentioned in #ubuntu-utah. Thanks for coming to find me.
[06:15] <YukiCuss> Kuyaedz, I barely managed. :)
[06:15] <Seveas> 10am is ~4am mako-time iirc
[06:15] <Seveas> sounds like a bad idea
[06:15] <Kuyaedz> Is there anything immediate that everyone would like to see done with the Utah Team?
[06:15] <Seveas> (for him, that is)
[06:16] <Kamion> jdub: did you see the stuff above about mailing list creation?
[06:16] <Seveas> Kuyaedz, yes, one thing
[06:16] <Seveas> Keep rocking!
[06:16] <Kuyaedz> Seveas: I will find you later concerning the template.  Also should we migrate to ut.ubuntu-us.org?
[06:17] <Seveas> Kuyaedz, you don't "have to" but it would be nice
[06:17] <Seveas> (which reminds me, I should still migrate to ubuntu-nl.org)
[06:17] <Kuyaedz> Seveas: Should I also speak with you later about that & access?
[06:17] <Seveas> Kuyaedz, yes, preferably in an hour or two (dinner time)
[06:17] <jdub> Kamion: no - but elmo's sorting out the RT queue for them, which will make it *vastly* easier to manage.
[06:18] <Seveas> Kamion, sabdfl, elmo: so tue april4 10am UTC?
[06:18] <Kamion> works for me
[06:18] <Seveas> it'll be DST then
[06:18] <jdub> Kamion: there's two pending atm, utah and ebuntu
[06:18] <G0SUB> jdub: can I be your assistant in setting up the mailing lists?
[06:18] <Kamion> slightly better than today actually, sorry for setting a meeting time and then being late for it :)
[06:18] <sabdfl> errr... actually i might be on a flight to a conference
[06:19] <Seveas> sabdfl, hmm, move the meeting to monday?
[06:19] <neuralis> Seveas: that'll be 5am EST, so no dice if you're trying to get mako.
[06:19] <Kuyaedz> Seveas: will do.
[06:19] <jdub> G0SUB: it requires access to the server and so on - there's not a lot of work involved, and it ends up being more policy than anything else
[06:19] <sabdfl> no, sec, i'm just trying to find out
[06:19] <Seveas> ok
[06:19] <G0SUB> jdub: sabdfl told that you might be in need of some help wrt this
[06:19] <G0SUB> ok
[06:19] <Seveas> (fiancee is pulling on my ears to get me to the dinner table - I may disappear suddenly)
[06:20] <sabdfl> monday is clearer for me, elmo, are you still on EST?
[06:20] <Kuyaedz> Ok well I'll get ahold of Seveas later.  Is there anything else I'm needed for?
[06:20] <elmo> sabdfl: yes, but I can shift without problems
[06:20] <Seveas> Kuyaedz, no, we're done here
[06:21] <Seveas> sabdfl, ok, monday april 3 it is then
[06:21] <Kuyaedz> thank you again.
[06:21] <sabdfl> 9am?
[06:21] <elmo> G0SUB: we're redirecting the list admin stuff to RT, which means there'll be 2 more people helping with lists stuff
[06:21] <Seveas> if 9am is ok with Kamion and elmo
[06:21] <G0SUB> elmo: that'd be great then
[06:22] <Kamion> 9am's doable as long as Kirsten is well again by then to take Benedict to school
[06:22] <Kamion> which should be the case
[06:22] <Seveas> ok, elmo?
[06:22] <elmo> yes
[06:22] <Seveas> cool Apr 3, 09:00 UTC it is
[06:23] <jsgotangco> nice
[06:23] <jsgotangco> i gotta sleep too
[06:23] <jsgotangco> good meeting
[06:23] <G0SUB> jsgotangco: good night :)
[06:23] <Kamion> ok, thanks all, guess that's adjourned
[06:24] <kjcole> Good night to those of you half a world away... (Noon'ish here.)
[06:24] <highvoltage> night kjcole
[06:25] <sabdfl> night all
[06:25] <svaksha>  g'night all
[06:25] <Amaranth> kjcole: central time?
[06:25] <Surak> perhaps the channel topic may reflect this change.
[06:25] <Amaranth> good night to those of you in odd time zones :P
[06:25] <G0SUB> Amaranth: hehe lol
[06:25] <kjcole> Amaranth: Eastern.  Actually 12:25 PM.
[06:26] <Mizar> bye
[06:28] <flint> kjcole, will call and bother you... sksk
[06:29] <kjcole> Ta-ta, all.
[07:03] <Seveas> @load webcal
[07:04] <Seveas> @topic
[10:02] <Fujitsu> Did the CC meeting end up happening 5 hours ago?
[10:03] <Seveas> yes
[10:03] <Fujitsu> OK.
[10:03] <Fujitsu> How'd it go?
[10:04] <Seveas> it went all right
[10:04] <Fujitsu> Good.


[17:18] <Omega> When Firefox 5 is released, will the Natty version of firefox be upgraded to it, or will we stick with 4 all cycle?
[18:15] <micahg> fta: ping re chromium
[18:33] <JanC> Omega: depends on what's easiest for security support I suppose (which probably will require upgrading...)
[18:37] <micahg> what was the question?
[18:39] <micahg> Omega: we'll be upgrading when security support ends on the upstream branch for each of the stable releases
[20:52] <asac> help :)
[20:52] <asac> i upgraded to natty and now this xulprofilemigrator hangs :/
[20:52] <asac> whats that?
[20:52] <asac> seems the old simple copy was rewritten somewhat
[20:52] <asac> with something pythonish
[21:07] <micahg> asac: yeah, it was rewritten to not be version specific, but occasionally, it seems to hang, do you have where it hangs?
[21:10] <fta> micahg, http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/chromium/10.0.648.205~r81283/
[21:11]  * micahg hugs fta
[21:11] <micahg> fta: thanks
[21:13] <fta> micahg, but with your rule of not accepting simple merges, it's making my life way more difficult, i loose hours cherry picking stuff in all directions. the branches are diverging more and more, for no real benefit. I have a unique branch for the -stable ppa for natty down to hardy.
[21:14] <fta> that's the part that really makes me want to give up
[21:15] <micahg> fta: it's not me, it's SRU rules, an MRE is for the upstream code changes, not packaging
[21:17] <micahg> fta: does the packaging break that much on stable?
[21:19] <fta> micahg, the packaging is made to build everywhere, even with dist patches and everything, yet, i have to undo all that to please those stupid SRU
[21:20] <micahg> fta: so, if we did a one time catchup merge for the next major version bump, would that solve the issue?
[21:20] <fta> in fact, i don't really understand what SRUs are for, i thought it would make my life easier, but it's exactly the same, for the packaging, the workflow and even the delay
[21:22] <micahg> fta: well, for the mozilla stuff, I have the various release specific branches that I update individually for each upload, the packaging is frozen for the duration of the major version, we'll probably have to revisit this when every upload is a new major version
[21:24] <micahg> I guess I'm wondering why it's not bump version, refresh any patches necessary, and "upload"
[21:25]  * micahg thought most of the breakage happens on the dev branch
[21:28] <fta> well, read the commit logs, you'll see why
[21:29] <fta> i'm out, enough for today.
[21:30] <micahg> fta: thanks, I'll get it uploaded tonight
[21:31] <micahg> fta: I'll check the commit logs and see if there's anything we can do to make it easier for you
[21:31] <micahg> fta: but I can't get back to you on that until later in the week
[21:50] <asac> micahg: it hangs after i click the "OK" button
[21:51] <asac> didnt do a backtrace or so
[22:01] <micahg> asac: Chris wrote that, so I'd have to dig into it, I can mention it to him in the morning
[22:01] <micahg> asac: straight upgrade from maverick?  was it ARM?
[22:03]  * micahg will be back in 15-20 minutes
[23:26] <micahg> fta: so, lucid and maverick differ, lucid installs NaCL in .install, maverick doesn't, which is correct?
[23:26] <fta> uh?
[23:27] <fta> drop both, i'll check tomorrow
[23:27] <fta> stupid merges
[23:27] <fta> grrr
[23:30] <micahg> fta: should I upload maverick then so it can go out tomorrow (hopefully) and lucid we'll get out on thursday?
[23:32] <fta> ok for maverick


[10:30] <alan_g> alf_: Just checking my thinking... there's no way for a server based on Mir to detect that the server is about to shutdown? (Beyond hooking signals, and policing its own use of stop())
[10:32] <alf_> alan_g: I don't think so, but I guess it depends on what "about to shutdown" means. What's the use case?
[10:34] <alan_g> In miral I want to exit an "in process client" before the server closes the connection
[10:34] <alan_g> So SIGINT, or Ctrl+Alt+BkSp, or ...
[10:37] <alf_> alan_g: Would adding a ServerStatusListener::about_to_stop and calling it just after the mainloop exits in DisplayServer work for you?
[10:39] <alan_g> alf_: I think it would be better if it happened before the mainloop exit. But I was really checking I wasn't missing an existing method.
[10:41] <alf_> alan_g: there isn't an existing method I am aware of
[12:10] <alf_> alan_g: I am thinking of making a few changes to the tiling window manager in miral, but wanted to check with you first. The core of the changes is that every surface always takes up exactly the space provided by the tile (as long as the app itself allows that, not sure we support max/min sizes?). With multiple tiles, resizing a tile/surface will just give more space to the others.
[12:27] <alf_> alan_g: A concern I have is that this will start to increase the complexity of the tiling WM and perhaps we want to keep it more simple as an example, rather than a full blown tiling WM?
[12:57] <alan_g> alf_: Please go ahead - I want the WMs in Miral to be serious efforts that test the API, not proof-of-concept examples.


[22:51] <Nafai> tedg: Around?
[22:51] <tedg> Nafai: Yup.
[22:52] <Nafai> So, here's the bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-bluetooth/+bug/558841
[22:52] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 558841 in gnome-bluetooth (Ubuntu) "bluetooth "devices" menu item not working in bluetooth indicator (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,Confirmed]
[22:53] <Nafai> There are not any significant related changes to gnome-bluetooth itself since I last knew things were working
[22:54] <Nafai> I'm really unsure of what is going on.  When I turn on bluetooth, it only shows the devices label but not the paired devices.  I can kill the applet and re-launch it and it will then show the devices
[22:54] <Nafai> At the end of the function that creates that portion of the menu, I see this:
[22:54] <Nafai> 	gtk_ui_manager_ensure_update (uimanager);
[22:54] <Nafai> I wonder if the interaction of that and libappindicator is the problem
[22:56] <Nafai> And how can I go about debugging what is going on?
[22:57] <tedg> Nafai: Probably the first thing is to look at the menu it's sending.
[22:57] <tedg> Nafai: Have you used dbusmenu-dumper before?
[22:58] <Nafai> Yeah, it's been a while though, can you remind me what args to use?
[22:58] <tedg> dbusmenu-dumper --dbus-name=org.gnome.Bluetooth.applet --dbus-object=/org/ayatana/NotificationItem/bluetooth_manager/Menu
[22:58] <Nafai> thanks
[23:03] <Nafai> tedg: ok, indeed this menu it is receiving doesn't have the device submenus
[23:03] <Nafai> does that indicate it is likely in the bluetooth code itself?
[23:04] <tedg> Nafai: Either that or the libappindicator parsing code.
[23:04] <tedg> Nafai: I'd throw some debugging info into libappindicator and see what pops out.
[23:04] <Nafai> ok, I've read enough of that code I think I know where to throw that in
[23:04] <Nafai> I'll ping you again in a few if I need some more
[23:05] <Nafai> how late will you be around tonight?
[23:05] <tedg> Cool, I'll probably start making dinner here in a bit.  But, then I'll probably be back later in the evening.
[23:05] <Nafai> ok, thanks
[23:05] <tedg> My whole day has turned into waiting on downloads :-/
[23:08] <Nafai> :(


[00:00]  * RAOF fires up his radeon system.
[00:00] <RAOF> That patch fixed it for me, and is broadly correct.
[00:00] <Daekdroom> Well, what was that fix for anyway?
[00:01] <Daekdroom> Because I'm getting a very similar traceback call.
[00:01] <RAOF> Reference-count DRI2 buffers and take a ref when scheduling a swap so that the buffers are still valid when the vblank event occurs.
[00:02] <RAOF> The problem was when a client sent a SwapBuffers request and then quit before the swap was complete.  That would result in it's buffers being freed, but the swap-complete callback would still try to use them.
[00:03] <RAOF> There was also a similar -intel problem that got fixed in a similar way.
[00:03] <Daekdroom> RAOF, http://pastebin.com/RT9sizAq
[00:03] <Daekdroom> That's from earlier today.
[00:05] <RAOF> That looks like a different trace to me; you don't happen to have a second system so you could attach gdb and get a proper backtrace?
[00:05] <Daekdroom> No second system, unfortunately.
[00:05] <Daekdroom> But yeah, it looks slightly different to me, but didn't happen untill today
[00:05] <RAOF> Booo.  How easy is it for you to reproduce this?
[00:06] <Daekdroom> Just open this specific Wine program, why?
[00:06] <RAOF> Well, because you could give me ssh access and I could gather a proper backtrace :)
[00:06] <Daekdroom> I don't like handling ssh :S
[00:08] <RAOF> Well, you can find my public keys on launchpad.
[00:08] <RAOF> Alternatively, you can _kinda_ get a proper backtrace on one system, but it's a bit faffy.
[00:08] <RAOF> Oh!
[00:08] <RAOF> What wine program?
[00:09] <Daekdroom> Huh, a game plataform called BYOND.
[00:09] <RAOF> Linky?
[00:09] <Daekdroom> Tried to reproduce it somehow in a native app and still didn't find a single one
[00:09] <RAOF> I mean, I could try running it :)
[00:10] <Daekdroom> RAOF http://www.byond.com/ trying to run a game with hardware 2D acceleration, regardless if OpenGL or DirectX will cause a instant Xcrash
[00:10] <Daekdroom> I still have quite a few other native apps here I can try
[00:12] <RAOF> I'll give byond a whirl.  If you find another app which exhibits the crash, pipe up :)
[00:12] <Daekdroom> Ok, I'll dig it.
[00:39] <RAOF> Daekdroom: Bah.  Any tips for running byond in wine?
[00:40] <Daekdroom> RAOF, oh, msvcrt
[00:40] <Daekdroom> Forgot to mention that override
[00:40] <RAOF> Which version?
[00:40] <Daekdroom> I use the vc6run one from winetricks
[00:41] <Daekdroom> *vb6run
[00:41] <Daekdroom> Ah, nvm, vcrun6
[00:41] <Daekdroom> Hm, yeah, that last one
[00:43] <RAOF> And what game kills it for you?
[00:45] <RAOF> Well, that's promising ):
[00:45] <RAOF> :)
[00:46] <RAOF> Find a winning crasher? :)
[00:46] <Daekdroom> RAOF, apparently, any game as long as I try to activate 2d hardware accel
[00:46] <Daekdroom> (that, of course, requires the game to have graphics)
[00:47] <RAOF> Sweet.  That just killed it.
[00:58] <Sarvatt> RAOF: http://sarvatt.com/git/cgit.cgi/mesa.debian/ in case it helps any, going to try to do the rest tomorrow
[00:59] <RAOF> Sarvatt: Thanks muchly.
[01:01] <Sarvatt> still have the problem with demos though, the majority of that crap doesn't have any license :( i've got a really crappy package started here http://sarvatt.com/downloads/mesa-demos/
[01:02] <Sarvatt> seems like its a bit too late for a r300g
[01:03] <RAOF> Indeed it does.
[01:03] <RAOF> Particularly since it breaks ums support.
[01:05] <RAOF> Re mesa-demos: I'd like to ship all the demos, but that can wait for Natty.
[01:06] <Sarvatt> maybe we should just just rip the ones we want out and put them in a subdirectory in the mesa tarball since we're repacking it, and have a seperate build step?
[01:06] <RAOF> Are we repacking the mesa tarball still?
[01:07] <Sarvatt> yeah its still split into 2
[01:07] <Sarvatt> or will be that is
[01:07] <RAOF> MesaLib and… ?
[01:08] <Sarvatt> did MesaGLUT move too?
[01:08]  * Sarvatt looks
[01:11] <RAOF> From what I can see we don't build glut from the mesa source package at the moment anyway.
[01:27] <RAOF> Oh, poot.  How are we getting an invalid buffer there?
[03:57] <RAOF> Oh, whoops!
[03:57] <RAOF> Mea culpa.
[04:35] <hyperair> Sarvatt: what? dkms packages for phc? where?!
[04:35] <hyperair> Sarvatt: and i thought the cpufreq governer was builtin rather than built as a module so phc couldn't be built as a module?
[09:57] <NCommander> Does anyone know if this symbol still exists in our version of Xorg?
[09:57] <NCommander> XF86VidModeSetViewPort
[09:59] <tjaalton> libxxf86vm1
[09:59] <jcristau> that's not in Xorg... what tjaalton said
[10:59] <kklimonda> hmm.. any known problems with nouveau locking up? I get one when using firefox from time to time. Only thing in /var/log/messages I can see is [drm] nouveau 0000:01:00.0: PFIFO_DMA_PUSHER - Ch 2. After that I can't even kill X with sysrq+k - console flashes for a second, I can see [drm] nouveau 0000:01:00.0: GPU lockup - switching to software fbcon and then I'm back to frozen X.
[10:59] <kklimonda> up to date maverick, no ppas enabled
[11:06] <RAOF> kklimonda: That kernel message is the GPU locking up; what GPU do you have?
[11:09] <kklimonda> RAOF: nVidia Corporation G84M [Quadro NVS 140M] (rev a1)
[11:15] <RAOF> Gah.
[11:17] <RAOF> That's not particularly known, but there's not a huge set of debugging options for nouveau.
[12:58] <kklimonda> RAOF: anything I can do to help? :)
[13:05] <RAOF> If you can find a dependable trigger it'd be useful and poke it upstream.
[13:09] <RAOF> Sarvatt: I've pushed my work on those mesa packages to ubuntu-maverick on pkg-xorg; feel free to pick it up and run with it if you've got time today :)
[14:04] <ion> sarvatt: Is the new fglrx release in x-updates compatible with the current xserver-xorg? (It would be really nice if it had a Breaks relation to incompatible ABIs.)
[14:05] <Sarvatt> ion: I don't know, they dont mention it in the release notes when they make it work with newer ones and I dont have anything to test it on :)
[14:05] <ion> Hehe
[14:05] <dandel> ion, if your talking about fglrx 8.76.7, it works just fine on ubuntu 10.04
[14:05] <ion> maverick
[14:05] <Sarvatt> RAOF: SWEET, I'm on it now
[15:02] <tseliot> ion: no, there's no fgrlx for maverick yet
[15:02] <Sarvatt> RAOF: any opinions regarding dri-experimental shipping gallium drivers with the same name as dri? should I just set up diversions for now?
[15:03] <Sarvatt> radeong got renamed to r300 screwing up my ddx patch to allow both installed side by side, could rename it as part of the build and go that route but it seems a dead end and other gallium drivers like the intel ones and swrast still wont work that way
[15:05] <Sarvatt> r300 is the only extra one i'd like to throw in -experimental really though so maybe we should do that still. I can't decide whats more evil, patching a ddx to allow loading a different dri driver name or adding a diversion
[15:07] <Sarvatt> anyone have any opinions on that? :)
[15:08] <Sarvatt><EMAIL_ADDRESS>-- said ddx patch
[15:16] <tjaalton> I'm for the simplest approach; ship the gallium version as r300_dri
[15:16] <tseliot> Sarvatt: I like your patch better, even though it can add maintenance burden. Oh and did I mention the fact that I hate diversions ;) ?
[15:16] <tjaalton> it's experimental anyway
[15:17] <tjaalton> package, driver less so I hear ;)
[15:18] <jcristau> just decide whether you want to ship r300c or r300g
[15:19] <tjaalton> i think it should be decided for nutty anyway
[15:19] <tjaalton> hmm, or what was it called again
[15:19] <tjaalton> ah, well nutty feels about right here ;)
[15:23] <Sarvatt> its too late to do r300g as the main one and many people will complain about losing accelerated 3D in UMS but r300g is the better of the two, ugh
[15:23] <Sarvatt> yeah I like nutty too :)
[15:37] <Dr_Jakob> Sarvatt: you could ship both and have the X driver return different names depending if you have UMS or KMS.
[15:37] <jcristau> Dr_Jakob: i suspect ums is getting uninteresting quite fast
[15:38] <Sarvatt> Dr_Jakob: my patch does that
[15:38] <Sarvatt> it only allows gallium in the dri2 path
[15:38] <Sarvatt> i just didn't make gallium the default in that one
[15:39] <Dr_Jakob> ah ok
[15:39] <Dr_Jakob> never mind then...
[15:41] <dandel> I'm proposing a few package changes, however, i need some help from an nvidia guy who has OpenCL support working on their system.
[16:18] <jg> Sarvatt, my bug exists in jbarnes' latest git.  Oh well...
[16:18] <Sarvatt> ok everything seems to be working (egl/gles/vg/etc), time to go over http://sarvatt.com/downloads/filelist_mesa_7.9.txt to make sure everything is right
[16:19] <Sarvatt> jg: dang, sorry man :( jbarnes mentioned even the windows drivers are having all kinds of eDP bugs yesterday
[16:20] <jg> Sarvatt: yeah, well I can finally build at test for jbarnes, when he has a spare moment.  And it was known to work at one point, so we can see the register state in working vs. non-working.
[16:22] <jg> unfortunately, that kernel won't resume properly, but at least the machine is no longer an expensive paperweight.
[16:33] <Sarvatt> I guess r300c is the way to go in maverick, i'll just fork the packaging for xorg-edgers again and make r300g the only option :)
[16:33] <Sarvatt> anyone know if there is something special that needs to be done to use the egl _screen versions of the mesa demos?
[16:33] <Sarvatt> the _x11 ones work fine
[16:34] <Sarvatt> osmesa demos don't build, a bunch of talloc undefined references
[17:13] <Sarvatt> uploaded a preliminary mesa 7.9 here - https://edge.launchpad.net/~sarvatt/+archive/mesa
[17:14] <Sarvatt> and holy crap mesa builds fast with DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS='parallel=24', 4 minutes! :D
[17:15] <Sarvatt> this needs some serious review by the arm people to see if there are any problems
[17:43] <Sarvatt> hopefully there's a mesa RC soon to rebase this onto
[17:46] <tseliot> Sarvatt: do you have 23 cores???
[17:46] <Sarvatt> the machine i'm building on has 24 yeah
[17:47] <tseliot> then I think you could have done DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="parallel=25"? (I think it's nr. of cores +1)
[17:47] <jcristau> depends.
[17:47] <tseliot> on what?
[17:48] <tseliot> (I'm curious)
[17:48] <Sarvatt> 12 of those are hyperthreaded, 24 is probably overkill :)
[17:48] <jcristau> tseliot: at some point you're io bound anyway
[17:48] <Sarvatt> its got a real slow disk too
[17:48] <tseliot> yes, I see what you mean
[17:57] <bilalakhtar> I would like to report a problem. Whenever I boot maverick with all updates, the GDM login comes. If I press any key from now on, X shuts down instantly and starts again in a second or two. This happens only once. After the second start, it behaves properly. Is this fine?
[17:57] <jcristau> no
[17:58] <bilalakhtar> s/Is this fine?/Is anyone else facing this problem/g
[17:58] <bilalakhtar> jcristau: ^^
[17:59] <jcristau> no idea about that one.
[18:04] <Sarvatt> jg: looks like someone else has to use 2.6.35-rc6 on your same laptop too - http://blog.mydream.com.hk/howto/ubuntu-10-10-maverick-with-hp-elitebook-2540p
[18:05] <jg> Sarvatt: I just filed a proper bug report at: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=29821
[18:05] <ubot4> Freedesktop bug 29821 in DRM/Intel "eDP screen "flashes" on and off after boot." [Critical,New]
[18:06] <tjaalton> i've got a hp blade with 12 cores hyperthreaded to 24 "cores" _and_ fast disks. I'll test some insane builds on it before it's put into production :)
[18:06] <tjaalton> oh and 96GB memory
[18:07] <tjaalton> could just build it in a ramdisk
[18:10] <Sarvatt> hmm libdrm-nouveau1 seems to be holding back a lucid -> maverick release upgrade - http://pastebin.com/6hQKa08c
[18:15] <Sarvatt> tjaalton: sweet! this just has 512mb memory and 10gb of virtualized disk space :)
[18:16]  * Sarvatt loathes OpenVZ
[18:17] <tjaalton> http://pastebin.com/CHCufLTN
[18:17] <tjaalton> the packaging phase is single-threaded, so it took 5m46s in total
[18:19] <ion> What’s that top-like software?
[18:19] <tjaalton> htop
[18:19] <ion> thanks
[18:20] <ion> D’oh. I already have installed it in the past, but completely forgotten about it.
[18:20] <Sarvatt> htop ftw!
[18:21] <Sarvatt> tjaalton: whats the speed on those xeons?
[18:21] <tjaalton> Sarvatt: 2.67GHz
[18:21] <tjaalton> time debian/rules build took 2m3s
[18:23] <Sarvatt> yeah thats like twice as fast, the 4 minutes wasn't packaging
[18:23] <tjaalton> heh, ok
[18:54] <Sarvatt> ok I dropped the Breaks: xserver-xorg-video-nouveau (<< 1:0.0.16) from libdrm-nouveau1 in maverick's package, versioned it higher than what's in maverick's archive and now I can dist upgrade from lucid to maverick, can anyone think of any other way to fix that? :)
[18:59] <cnd> jcristau, are you about?
[18:59] <jcristau> cnd: sort of
[19:00] <cnd> I see that you're the author of config/udev.c in xserver
[19:00] <cnd> I wanted to know your thoughts on how best to resolve an issue I'm having
[19:00] <cnd> do you have the time to chat about it?
[19:01] <jcristau> yep?
[19:03] <cnd> so I want to be able to use an InputClass to match just the Apple Magic Trackpad
[19:04] <cnd> unfortunately, the apple bluetooth input products rename themselves after being configured by a user in os x
[19:04] <cnd> so my trackpad now says it's product name is "cndougla's trackpad"
[19:04] <jcristau> ugh
[19:04] <tjaalton> :D
[19:04] <Sarvatt> fun!
[19:04] <jcristau> does apple ever do anything right?
[19:04] <cnd> unfortunately, I don't see any great way to fix this
[19:04] <cnd> but I also see bugs in the udev code
[19:05] <jcristau> can we match on product id instead of name?
[19:05] <cnd> for example, even on usb devices, the wrong udev node is checked for the usb id
[19:05] <cnd> the parent node should be checked it seems, but the event* node is checked
[19:05] <cnd> so usb devices don't even get usb_id set properly anymore
[19:05] <cnd> on top of that, the usb device ids listed for bluetooth devices is the device ids of the bluetooth receiver
[19:06] <cnd> not the actual device
[19:06] <cnd> the only way to get the actual device id is to parse the modalias
[19:06] <cnd> jcristau, so, I'm wondering if you have any good ideas of how we should deal with this :)
[19:06] <Sarvatt> can you tag it in udev and MatchTag?
[19:07] <cnd> Sarvatt, you could, but tags are limited
[19:07] <cnd> tags are meant to say what class of device it is
[19:07] <cnd> and if we start using bits for individual devices, we'll run out quickly :)
[19:07] <cnd> apple already does this renaming for at least three devices I have
[19:07] <jcristau> we don't have the device id in the udev db except in the modalias?
[19:08] <cnd> jcristau, correct, for bluetooth devices
[19:08] <jcristau> fun..
[19:08] <cnd> I think for all bluetooth devices, but I only have my apple gear
[19:08] <cnd> I'm willing to write a patch for the udev parsing
[19:08] <cnd> I just want to make sure you can't think of any better way
[19:09] <jcristau> not really, this sounds ugly
[19:09] <cnd> for example, maybe it's better to define a udev rule for bluetooth devices to parse the modalias for the device id instea
[19:09] <cnd> d
[19:09] <jcristau> might want to talk to #udev or linux-hotplug@vger
[19:09] <cnd> yeah, I'll ask
[19:12] <cnd> jcristau, my current thinking is to have a bluetooth udev rule parse the modalias and then set the product and vendor ids from the data
[19:12] <cnd> but xserver will still need a patch to look for the usb ids on the parent node instead of the device node
[19:12] <cnd> so just fyi that I'll be looking into this
[19:13] <jcristau> ok
[19:23] <cnd> jcristau, I think it may be possible to get the id a different way
[19:23] <cnd> I'm not terribly familiar with udev
[19:23] <cnd> it's not obvious how to get all the data out of udevadm :)
[19:23] <jcristau> udevadm info --export-db should have most of it
[19:24] <cnd> jcristau, I don't see any attrs though
[19:24] <cnd> that's where I get confused
[19:24] <cnd> there's attrs, and then there's properties
[19:24] <cnd> what's the difference?
[20:27] <Sarvatt> oh hmm, got a reply saying something might be able to be done to work around the libdrm Breaks: screwing up dist-upgrade in update-manager. that'd certainly be better than dropping the breaks
[20:29] <mvo> Sarvatt: bug #614993 you mean?
[20:29] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 614993 in update-manager (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "10.04 -> 10.10 upgrade fails: pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks: Holding Back xserver-xorg-video-nouveau rather than change xorg-video-abi-8.0 (affects: 7) (dups: 5) (heat: 58)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/614993
[20:29] <Sarvatt> yeah
[20:30] <mvo> Sarvatt: IIRC a conflict helped (instead of the break) when I looked with that problem, the resolver is sometimes a bit dumb
[20:31] <Sarvatt> i couldn't work out an easy way to test that, i did try it but couldn't get update-manager to let me do a release upgrade without patching/rebuilding x-x-v-nouveau 0.0.16 too
[20:31] <Sarvatt> since the conflicts left things in a broken state
[20:32] <mvo> Sarvatt: I played with it by patching /var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com*maverick*main*Packages and let apt go wild on it, but of course that is rather hackish
[20:33] <mvo> Sarvatt: I can have a look again tomorrow, today I'm a bit too tired for anything complicated
[20:58] <Sarvatt> removing the breaks: was a bad idea, it ended up deciding to hold x-x-v-nouveau back to 0.0.15 which held back all of x from upgrading until i did a sudo apt-get install xserver-xorg-video-nouveau/maverick :)
[23:20] <Daekdroom> RAOF, just noticed from MaverickChanges that you fixed it. Thank you :)


[01:06] <A4Tech> mm?
[01:06] <bazhang> A4Tech, hi
[01:06] <A4Tech> hello
[01:06] <bazhang> Tenebrus> whom can i talk with about #ubuntu-ru operators?
[01:06] <bazhang> I responded but he never answered me
[01:07] <A4Tech> Tenebrus is sh%t
[01:07] <bazhang> A4Tech, this was the guy ban-dodging like 10 times the other day?
[01:07] <A4Tech> I never unban Tenebrus
[01:08] <bazhang> well if he ever responds to me, I will chat with him.
[01:08] <A4Tech> I do not know what he did today, but the last time he had enough problems, I delivered
[01:09] <bazhang> A4Tech, okay, just wanted to let you know I will chat with him ( Tenebrus ) if he ever responds here
[01:09] <A4Tech> bazhang Give that he has no chance in the channel #ubuntu-ru
[01:10] <niko> hi there
[01:10] <A4Tech> niko hi
[01:10] <bazhang> hi
[01:11] <niko> what's up ?
[01:11] <bazhang> niko, congrats on being made freenode staff :)
[01:11] <niko> thanks :)
[01:11] <A4Tech> o, good
[01:11] <bazhang> niko, just discussing Tenebrus ' case (ban-dodging multiple times) from #ubuntu-ru
[01:12] <niko> ban reason is ?
[01:12] <bazhang> he came here to discuss it, and has yet to respond to my multiple pings
[01:12] <A4Tech> niko: Math, insults. Threats to Private
[01:13] <niko> ok
[01:13] <A4Tech> Math == ... bad words
[01:14] <niko> have you always issue with ban list length ?
[01:15] <A4Tech> mmm... yes.
[01:16] <niko> did you try use of akick list on cleanup ban list ?
[01:17] <A4Tech> niko akick This in my opinion not convenient.
[01:18] <niko> why ?
[01:18] <niko> we have the same issue on #ubuntu-fr for a long time
[01:18] <niko> after we use bot temp ban and akick list, all come fine
[01:18] <A4Tech> In Russia, these things we call - "spike"
[01:19] <niko> ah like mass attack ?
[01:20] <A4Tech> ?
[01:22] <niko> you tell spike, it's like a big attack under your channel ?
[01:25] <A4Tech> niko: http://www.armed.ru/images/IMPORT_med/kolaski/crutchwood.jpg (spike) This means a thing, or the possibility that partially solves the problem, but not her.
[01:25] <niko> A4Tech: ok
[01:26] <A4Tech> And this I do not like it, better let alone be it.
[01:26] <niko> you have only 60~ guy on your channel
[01:27] <niko> do you really needs more than 50 ban ?
[01:27] <A4Tech> yes, and ~80 needs ban
[01:27] <A4Tech> ~10 Use proxy
[01:27] <A4Tech> and etc
[01:27] <A4Tech> tor..
[01:28] <A4Tech> Forced to block the whole subnet
[01:28] <niko> you have +R
[01:28] <A4Tech> yes...
[01:28] <A4Tech> As practice showed, and it does not help
[01:29] <niko> and +r ?
[01:29] <A4Tech> I would not apply to you once again. If this is really not needed.
[01:29] <A4Tech> (04:29:37) mode for #ubuntu-ru: +stncR
[01:30] <A4Tech> While these are all at your discretion, you'll want to know. I do not want to annoy you, too
[01:31] <niko> i will stay a moment on u-ru
[01:31] <niko> just to have an idea of your problem
[01:32] <A4Tech> ok
[01:32] <A4Tech> But keep in mind, it is not every day, such a problem. But sometimes as a bulk - the horror.
[01:32] <bazhang> niko, you read Russian?
[01:33] <niko> no
[01:33] <bazhang> aha
[01:33] <A4Tech> What are those ~20 bots to send lyrics to channel and perepodklyuchalis proxy
[01:33] <A4Tech> (A bit of history)
[01:34] <A4Tech> perepodklyuchalis == reconnect
[07:12] <jussi01> Remider Everyone! IRCC meeting in ~50mins in #ubuntu-meeting! | Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda | Issues Wiki Page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/IRCteamproposal
[11:20] <niko> jussi01: i just finish read log of -meeting, finaly no question about #ubuntu-es ?
[11:21] <jussi01> niko: nobody put anything on the agenda...
[11:22] <niko> 2009/08/06 15:21:49 <*Pici> erUSUL: Okay. niko yes I think we should discuss it at the next IRCC meeting then.
[11:23] <Pricey> niko: What is this?
[11:23] <niko> about the u-es founder issue
[12:04] <elky> niko, what is the loco council's stance on it?
[12:05] <niko> u-es is not affliated with the es loco i think
[12:05] <niko> but you should wait for erUSUL to have a true answer
[12:21] <jpds> It isn't.
[17:34] <DJones> Ping popey Seeker` Daviey
[17:34] <popey> DJones: wassup?
[17:35] <DJones> popey: Possible ban evader in -uk username xsdfgh
[17:36] <DJones> the ip address looks very similar to one on the bans list, wondered if it was the samual-afk etc renamed
[17:36] <jMyles> Is this a channel about ubuntu-irc?  Or the channel strictly to report issues?  Or is that #ubuntu-ops?
[17:36] <popey> it is/was
[17:36] <popey> @djones
[17:37] <DJones> thought it looked suspicious
[17:37] <DJones> jMyles: Its more for discussing channel issues/problems for the loco teams
[17:38] <popey> basically all non-core channels
[17:38] <jMyles> Is there a different place where Ubuntu's IRC presence is discussed / brainstormed?
[19:16] <jpds> jMyles: Not that I know of, except for maybe the ubuntu-irc mailing list.
[19:17] <jMyles> jpds: Thanks.  I've been meaning to join that anyway.