[23:44] <belkinsa> Who is in charge of the community wiki?
[23:44] <pleia2> what specifically?
[23:44] <pleia2> Canonical IS runs the server and maintains the software, this team (and several of us who are admins) manage content
[23:45] <eagles0513875_> belkinsa:
[23:45] <eagles0513875_> hey
[23:45] <belkinsa> eagles0513875, is asking this in another channel and asked me to ask this.
[23:45] <eagles0513875_> belkinsa:  :)
[23:45] <eagles0513875_> im here now
[23:45] <belkinsa> [18:44] <pleia2> what specifically?
[23:45] <belkinsa> [18:44] <pleia2> Canonical IS runs the server and maintains the software, this team (and several of us who are admins) manage content
[23:45] <pleia2> belkinsa: wait, do you mean wiki.ubuntu.com ?
[23:45] <pleia2> or the community help wiki?
[23:45] <eagles0513875_> pleia2: the community documentation
[23:45] <eagles0513875_> ya
[23:45] <pleia2> ok
[23:46] <eagles0513875_> are you in charge of that team pleia2
[23:46] <pleia2> we don't have a leader
[23:46] <knome> eagles0513875_, maybe you should ask the real question...
[23:46] <eagles0513875_> knome: it was just asked
[23:46] <pleia2> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc-wiki-admins/+members
[23:46] <knome> eagles0513875_, eg. "i want to get page X deleted" or "i can't login"
[23:46] <belkinsa> eagles0513875_, [18:45] <phillw> community doc cannot, because of what it is, have a team leader.... any one can add / edit wiki entries... this is both its stregnth and weakness.
[23:46] <eagles0513875_> pleia2: are you referring to the official docs
[23:47] <pleia2> eagles0513875_: no, the official docs aren't a wiki
[23:47] <pleia2> official docs are static html exported from docbook
[23:47] <eagles0513875_> phillw: basically i think that the community wiki can have a team leader
[23:47] <pleia2> why?
[23:47] <eagles0513875_> one that ensures it stays spam free. things stay up to date
[23:47] <pleia2> our whole team does that
[23:47] <pleia2> one person can't :)
[23:47] <belkinsa> No, what we need is people to know what to do and such.
[23:48] <eagles0513875_> well i can setup a vm on my laptop but im having so many problems with my laptop and 13.10
[23:48] <eagles0513875_> im not sure if ill stay with kubuntu sadly :(
[23:48] <belkinsa> And of course, we need outside help for this: Wiki jams and developers telling what the changes are.
[23:48] <pleia2> the problem with keeping everything up to date isn't that we lack a leader, we all work hard on it but it's a big job so we do our best with the resources we have
[23:48] <phillw> that is why we have the tags.... I've asked many times for a group of people to update just one page.... No one has :/
[23:49] <eagles0513875_> phillw: if i had the time and not such a screwed up sleep pattern atm with this job i have
[23:49] <eagles0513875_> i would
[23:49] <pleia2> yep, we tag things, and hope people who are knowledgable in that area update them
[23:49] <knome> nobody can't really force anybody to do anything since it's a voluntary-driven project
[23:49] <phillw> indeed.
[23:49] <belkinsa> Sigh.
[23:49] <eagles0513875_> well ill take a look through the documentation
[23:49] <eagles0513875_> community wiki and see what i can try out
[23:50] <knome> i don't understand the problem, or the frustration
[23:50] <belkinsa> I shouldn't of started this.
[23:50] <pleia2> great, thanks for your help
[23:50] <eagles0513875_> belkinsa: you are doign a good job
[23:50] <belkinsa> It's my fault.
[23:50] <eagles0513875_> belkinsa: no if anything its mine
[23:51] <belkinsa> Maybe the idea of Wiki Jams should be brought up again in the List...
[23:51] <eagles0513875_> ya i agree
[23:52] <eagles0513875_> and what happened to all the community documentation in terms of software :(
[23:52] <pleia2> anyone is welcome to organize one
[23:52] <eagles0513875_> there was a hell of alot more previously
[23:52] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam is on Friday, 4 April 2014 17:00 to Sunday, 6 April 2014
[23:52] <eagles0513875_> i can contribute greatly with how to's
[23:52] <eagles0513875_> there is tons missing
[23:52] <pleia2> can review https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams/Docs and see what needs updating
[23:52] <belkinsa> I will think about it.
[23:53] <belkinsa> I have work to do.
[23:53] <pleia2> unfortunately that jam is too late for official docs to be worked on, but wiki docs always can :)
[23:53] <knome> eagles0513875_, you can start now, no need for a specific sprint
[23:53] <eagles0513875_> pleia2:  belkinsa  is it possible if you are the author of a page to be notified of changes and basiaclly become the dedicated maintainer of that page
[23:53] <eagles0513875_> knome: i know but im at work and i dont have my laptop to test on
[23:53] <knome> eagles0513875_, you can subscribe to pages
[23:53] <belkinsa> That would be nice, eagles0513875_ .
[23:53] <knome> eagles0513875_, but you can't "own" a page
[23:53] <eagles0513875_> knome: :) nice
[23:54] <eagles0513875_> :) i have some very simple how to's on my old site which are concise and to the point :) such as for git and various aspects of git :)
[23:54] <eagles0513875_> and other things which would be beneficial there :)
[23:54] <eagles0513875_> i have lots of ideas
[23:55] <knome> eagles0513875_, re: "start now", i don't mean now-now. just that you can start any time, and edit any page which you can improve
[23:55] <knome> there is no restrictions
[23:55] <eagles0513875_> :)
[23:55] <knome> you don't need a permission to work on something
[23:55] <eagles0513875_> knome: is the documentation something that will be updated constantly
[23:55] <eagles0513875_> i know just motivation for writing wiki's
[23:55] <knome> eagles0513875_, what are you referring to with "documentation" ?
[23:56] <knome> the official documentation, or the community help wiki?
[23:56] <eagles0513875_> i mean wiki
[23:56] <eagles0513875_> sorry
[23:56] <knome> it's updated as we go
[23:56] <knome> it isn't tied to any release schedule
[23:56] <eagles0513875_> good :)
[23:56] <knome> people add information as they find something new that's useful
[23:56] <knome> or when they have time to extend the pages
[23:57] <eagles0513875_> :)
[23:57] <belkinsa> It possible to do a Wiki Jam during Jam Week?
[23:57] <knome> belkinsa, sure.
[23:57] <pleia2> belkinsa: yes, that's when you do jams :)
[23:57] <belkinsa> Alright, I just got an idea.
[23:58] <pleia2> if you look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam there are lots of things people can jam on
[23:58] <belkinsa> I have
[23:58] <pleia2> Bugs, Testing, Documentation...
[23:58]  * pleia2 nods
[23:58] <knome> eagles0513875_, also, re: being a "maintainer" for a page... feel free to make sure any page is up-to-date
[23:58] <eagles0513875_> :)
[23:58] <pleia2> we sometimes also do dedicated days where we all work on the same thing, but we tend to call those "sprints"
[23:58] <knome> eagles0513875_, just note that others can, and will, edit the pages
[23:58] <pleia2> since "jams" are a specific thing that happen once per cycle, community and world-wide
[23:59] <eagles0513875_> knome: no problem :)
[23:59] <eagles0513875_> but if the content is good i dont see if there would need to be any chances


[16:10] <Totum> hi.. sorry for such a basic question.. but I'm trying to write my first upstart script, and I'm trying to decide what the most appropriate 'start on stanza' to start the program is... is there a big list of all the possible EVENT options??  : man upstart - start on EVENT [[KEY=]VALUE]... [and|or...])
[16:11] <Totum> all of the guides seem to assume this knowledge, and I cannot find anything but a handful of examples from scripts that other people have written
[16:13] <SpamapS> Totum: 'man upstart-events'
[16:13] <SpamapS> Totum: *most* regular services should just 'start on runlevel [2345]' and 'stop on runlevel [^2345]'
[16:40] <Totum> hi SpamapS.. thanks for the information, its been very helpful (and apologies for my slow feedback..! hehe) .. it makes more sense for me to use runlevels rather than as this is what I am used to.. I was only using  events as I had copied these from another script... so know the script is starting correctly now.. i'm having other issues but I will try to work these out before shouting for...
[16:40] <Totum> ...more help :)
[19:15] <marrusl> Hmmm... what might cause mountall not to emit "filesystem"?
[19:18] <marrusl> I have a situation where that's happening and so rc-sysinit doesn't run.
[19:19] <marrusl> and syslog has "init: Handling filesystem/failed event"
[19:19] <marrusl> but then when you telinit 2, the sys v runs and everything seems normal.
[19:21] <marrusl> I'm going to have to wait for a reproducer.   all i have is " grep "init:" /var/log/syslog.....
[19:24] <marrusl> so maybe there's some obvious reason as to why "filesystem" isn't getting emitted in the full logs.
[19:25] <marrusl> SpamapS, ^^ do you know the criteria for mountall to emit "filesystem"?
[19:25] <marrusl> I guess this is really more of a mountall question...  omg... I just looked at man mountall
[19:26] <marrusl> still says "temporary".
[19:26] <marrusl> ;-)
[20:04] <JoeGaudet> Hey gues
[20:04] <JoeGaudet> guys
[20:04] <JoeGaudet> I am new to upstart, just wondering how I can make an upstart process not belong to root.
[20:04] <JoeGaudet> That is to say, I can start / stop it with another specified user.
[20:37] <SpamapS> marrusl: filesystem is emtited when all filesystems are mounted from /etc/fstab
[20:38] <SpamapS> marrusl: excluding 'nowait'
[20:38] <SpamapS> marrusl: that includes any remote filesystems.. which are only known to be remote because mountall has a big switch/case
[20:54] <SpamapS> JoeGaudet: you can actually
[20:54] <SpamapS> JoeGaudet: there's a dbus socket that non-root users can use to call initctl (which start/stop are just aliases for)
[20:57] <SpamapS> JoeGaudet: the permissions are specified on Ubuntu in /etc/dbus-1/system.d/Upstart.conf
[20:58] <marrusl> SpamapS, ok.  That's about what I expected.  Thanks for the info.
[21:21] <JoeGaudet> SpamapS: So I can basically add a policy for another user in that conf file ?
[21:21] <JoeGaudet> hrm
[21:25] <SpamapS> JoeGaudet: or just add that user to the admin group
[21:26] <SpamapS> JoeGaudet: oh actually there's nothing special for admin. So yeah, you'd just make another user like 'root'
[21:26] <SpamapS> JoeGaudet: almost easier to just use sudo.....
[21:33] <JoeGaudet> This is part of a one click deploy script though
[21:33] <JoeGaudet> that isn't run as root
[21:53] <SpamapS> JoeGaudet: so just give your one-click deploy script running user sudo access to run 'start X' or 'stop X' .. seems more straight forward than dbus permissions.
[22:32] <JanC> JoeGaudet: do you want an upstart job to run as non-root, do you want to install an upstart job as non-root or do you want to start/stop an upstart job as non-root?
[22:32] <JoeGaudet> 1 & 3
[22:32] <JoeGaudet> I'd like it to run as not root
[22:32] <JoeGaudet> and stop + start by a non root user
[22:34] <JanC> on Ubuntu or on another OS using upstart?
[22:36] <JanC> upstart supports user jobs, but not on Ubuntu (yet?) AFAIK
[22:37] <JanC> run as non-root is easy with 'su'
[22:38] <JanC> start/stop as non-root might require changes to /etc/sudoers
[22:38] <JoeGaudet> Ubuntu
[22:39] <JanC> depending on if the user is already able to use sudo...
[22:41] <JanC> JoeGaudet: by default on Ubuntu all users who are members of the groups "admin" or "sudo" can become root using sudo
[22:42] <JanC> so depends on if you want non-privileged users to start/stop your service too...
[22:43] <JoeGaudet> I do yeah
[22:43] <JoeGaudet> I have script that builds the jar that needs to be run
[22:43] <JanC> JoeGaudet: does it have to run as the user who starts your service?
[22:44] <JoeGaudet> So at the end of the script I'd just like to have stop <serviceName>; start <serviceName>
[22:44] <JoeGaudet> Nope
[22:44] <JoeGaudet> I could be someone else
[22:44] <JoeGaudet> though Ideally i'd like it to be owned by deploy
[22:44] <JoeGaudet> for organization sake
[22:44] <SpamapS> JanC: don't use 'su' for running as not root btw
[22:44] <SpamapS> JanC: it keeps the 'pam' session open for the user, causes problems
[22:45] <JanC> SpamapS: ah, what's the recommended way then?
[22:45] <SpamapS> JanC: start-stop-daemon is safer
[22:45] <JanC> ah, right
[22:46] <SpamapS> JanC: or on precise and later, setuid/setgid .. though the problem with that is pre-start and post-start run as not-root too, which can be problematic
[22:47] <JanC> sounds like we need something more fine-grained in a future upstart then  ;)
[22:51] <JoeGaudet> indeed
[22:52] <JoeGaudet> I'll give it a poke later
[23:15] <SpamapS> JanC: yeah its been discussed that the setuid/setgid should be arguments to script/exec .. that would work.
[23:15] <SpamapS> JanC: so you'd have 'script setuid nobody\n...end script'
[23:26] <benburkert> i've got an upstart job that is failing to start, but "start job" says the job is already running
[23:26] <benburkert> is there any way to debug upstart to check what process it considers this job to be?
[23:39] <SpamapS> benburkert: status jobname
[23:45] <benburkert> SpamapS: status says it's up, but it's not, is there any way to get the PID that it thinks the job is?
[23:47] <SpamapS> "up" ?
[23:47] <SpamapS> benburkert: a job does not need a pid to be in a start/running state.
[23:48] <SpamapS> benburkert: if a job has no exec/script section, it will not track a pid
[23:48] <benburkert> it's the default mysql package
[23:48] <benburkert> which has exec /usr/sbin/mysqld
[23:48] <SpamapS> benburkert: and status shows 'start/running' but no pid?
[23:49] <benburkert> but it also has a pre-start and a post-start script
[23:49] <benburkert> SpamapS:  yes
[23:49] <SpamapS> benburkert: that would be a bug then. As soon as that process goes away, the job should go into respawn mode, or stop/waiting
[23:50] <SpamapS> benburkert: do you maybe have an override file?
[23:50] <benburkert> where would that be?
[23:50] <benburkert> also, is there any other logs than syslog for this stuff?
[23:56] <SpamapS> /etc/init/mysql.override
[23:56] <SpamapS> benburkert: you can up the verbosity with 'initctl log-priority info'
[23:57] <SpamapS> benburkert: all logs should be in /var/log/syslog
[23:58] <benburkert> SpamapS: there's a /etc/init/mysql.conf.dpkg-dist file, would that be it?
[23:59] <SpamapS> benburkert: no, but that is the original file, diff against that to see what local mods have been made


[14:02] <Sagaci> hi, is the ubuntu server meeting held in here?
[14:18] <erichammond> Sagaci: Today's meeting is skipped.  The next one will be January 6.


[05:10] <Zamboli> hi
[05:12] <holstein> hey Zamboli
[05:13] <Zamboli> query: i updated to 10.04 through the update manager, is this the same as if I did a clean Ubuntu Studio 10.04 install?
[05:13] <holstein> hmmm
[05:14] <holstein> probably not exactly the same i suppose
[05:14] <holstein> you should end up with the same thing though
[05:14]  * holstein did an upgrade too
[05:14] <holstein> so far so good
[05:15] <holstein> should be very similar, maybe a few config files hanging around
[05:15] <holstein> or some unused packages
[05:15] <Zamboli> yeah
[05:15] <Zamboli> oh, also, how do I change the background of the login screen
[05:17] <Zamboli> i'll google that ;)
[05:17] <holstein> check out http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/02/change-gdm-login-screen-background-in.html
[05:18] <holstein> i havent messed with it since hardy i bet ;)
[05:18] <holstein> since it started looking good
[05:19] <Zamboli> the strange thing with the round wall?
[05:19] <holstein> is that the ubuntu studio one?
[05:19] <holstein> i added the studio stuff to a vanilla karmic install
[05:20] <Zamboli> when i upgraded to 10.04 yeah
[05:20] <holstein> and upgraded
[05:20] <Zamboli> yeah
[05:20] <holstein> i dont get the themes
[05:20] <holstein> for ubuntustudio
[05:20] <Zamboli> i think that might be a good route
[05:20] <holstein> ALTHOUGH, they usually look great when i see screenshots
[05:20] <Zamboli> yeah, i don't have any defaults
[06:28] <usuario_> i cant get adobe flash plugin to install with my firefox 3.5 in jaunty
[06:28] <usuario_>  and suggestions?
[06:32] <holstein> hmmm
[06:33] <holstein> usuario_: did you do sudo apt-get install ubuntu-restricted-extras
[06:33] <holstein> usuario_: OH
[06:33] <holstein> are the jaunty repos still active?
[06:33] <usuario_> holstein i dont know
[06:34] <holstein> whats the problem?
[06:34] <usuario_> i cant play youtube videos
[06:34] <holstein> specifically
[06:34] <holstein> what are you trying to install
[06:34] <holstein> and how is it failing
[06:34] <usuario_> i need a flash player
[06:35] <usuario_> adobe flash plugin
[06:35] <holstein> OK
[06:35] <usuario_> says i cant
[06:35] <usuario_> dl it
[06:35] <holstein> what does?
[06:35] <holstein> synaptic?
[06:35] <usuario_> terminal
[06:36] <holstein> what command are you using?
[06:36] <usuario_> im running the  sudo apt-get install ubuntu-restricted-extras
[06:36] <holstein> OK
[06:36] <holstein> whats the error?
[06:37] <usuario_> sudo apt-get adobe-flashplugin
[06:37] <usuario_> invailid operation
[06:37] <holstein> usuario_: i would suggest
[06:37] <usuario_> ok im done with the restrcted extras
[06:38] <holstein> usuario_: ??
[06:38] <usuario_> yes
[06:38] <holstein> done installing?
[06:38] <usuario_> ¿
[06:38] <usuario_> ubuntu-restricted-extras
[06:38] <holstein> OK
[06:38] <holstein> are you done installing that package?
[06:38] <holstein> the meta-package
[06:38] <holstein> ubuntu-restricted-extras
[06:38] <usuario_> yes
[06:39] <holstein> OK
[06:39] <holstein> do you have flash?
[06:39] <holstein> you need to restart the browser
[06:39] <usuario_> i dont know
[06:41] <holstein> http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/155/tn_15507.html
[06:44] <holstein> you might want to try #ubuntu or #ubuntu-beginners
[06:44] <holstein> this channel is mostly intended for ubuntu studio support
[06:45] <usuario_> ok
[06:45] <holstein> also
[06:45] <holstein> have a look at http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/
[06:45] <holstein> i get a lot of help from my loco team :)
[21:31] <sarmeast> hello?
[21:31] <sarmeast> I've got a problem with 10.04 32 bit
[21:36] <rlameiro> say it
[21:36] <sarmeast> well
[21:36] <sarmeast> on boot
[21:36] <sarmeast> the screen flickers from left to right
[21:36] <sarmeast> extremely fast
[21:37] <rlameiro> does it stay good after login?
[21:38] <sarmeast> no
[21:38] <rlameiro> ok
[21:38] <rlameiro> when does it start to happen?
[21:38] <sarmeast> the second graphics appear
[21:38] <rlameiro> after selecting the kernel?
[21:39] <sarmeast> yea
[21:39] <rlameiro> ok
[21:39] <rlameiro> was it like that always?
[21:39] <rlameiro> is it a fresh install?
[21:40] <sarmeast> it's a fresh install
[21:40] <sarmeast> dual boot
[21:40] <rlameiro> ok
[21:40] <rlameiro> graphic card?
[21:41] <sarmeast> onboard ati mobility radeon
[21:41] <rlameiro> weird
[21:41] <rlameiro> what happens if you after
[21:41] <rlameiro> does it shows some login image?
[21:42] <sarmeast> it shows normal graphics
[21:42] <sarmeast> but it flickers left to righ
[21:42] <sarmeast> t
[21:42] <sarmeast> makes text almost illegible
[21:42] <rlameiro> and stays like that after login... well maybe you will need to try install a diferent driver
[21:43] <rlameiro> maybe you can get some help on #ubuntu
[21:43] <rlameiro> i am not very good in this stuffs
[21:43] <sarmeast> i think i'm going to install ubuntu
[21:43] <sarmeast> and migrate the studio packages over
[21:43] <sarmeast> i believe that helps
[21:43] <rlameiro> this doesnt seems to be  a ubuntustudio issue
[21:44] <rlameiro> maybe
[21:44] <sarmeast> because debian works ok
[21:44] <rlameiro> if it works with ubuntu it would be good to track it and see if it is ubuntustudio specific