[00:38] <cafezim> hi
[00:38] <cafezim> I am new
[00:38] <cafezim> not in programming :)
[00:39] <cafezim> Someone here in this room?
[00:40] <axp2> Hi cafezim
[00:41] <cafezim> Hi
[00:41] <cafezim> axp2
[00:42] <axp2> do you have a question?
[00:42] <cafezim> yes, I would like to develop software
[00:42] <cafezim> I am good at Java
[00:42] <maco> cafezim: did you see what i said  in #ubuntu about how to find java packages in ubuntu?
[00:43] <cafezim> hi maco
[00:43] <axp2> cafezim: here's a good place to start https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Programming
[00:44] <axp2> also, the way I got started was by joining papercuts-ninja
[00:44] <axp2> https://launchpad.net/~papercuts-ninja
[00:44] <cafezim> Who programs for ubuntu here?
[00:45] <cafezim> Not talking
[00:45] <cafezim> Programming
[00:45] <cafezim> ?
[00:46] <axp2> what do you mean?
[00:46] <cafezim> I mean who in this room actually develops software for the Ubuntu communnity
[00:46] <cafezim> I am asking
[00:46] <axp2> probably most of the people in here
[00:47] <cafezim> do you?
[00:47] <axp2> I am Community (i.e. not Canonical staff), but I write code for Ubuntu Software Centre
[00:48] <cafezim> Ok
[00:48] <cafezim> you gave me this link here
[00:49] <axp2> yes
[00:49] <cafezim> What are you coding?
[00:50] <axp2> do you mean which language? at the moment, python
[00:51] <cafezim> Ok, I can python, but i am good at java
[00:51] <cafezim> can't*
[00:52] <cafezim> Do you know about any relevant Java project?
[00:52] <axp2> well if you know java then you'll probably find python very easy but if you are looking for projects written in java to contribute to you can do that
[00:53] <cafezim> ok man, I will learn python
[00:53] <cafezim> syntax :)
[00:55] <cafezim> so man, are you always in this channel?
[00:55] <axp2> you don't have to learn python, but you will probably find there are far more projects to contribute to in Ubuntu if you can
[00:55] <axp2> I'm in here fairly often
[00:56] <cafezim> Ok
[00:56] <cafezim> what about c++?
[00:56] <cafezim> do you know it?
[00:56] <axp2> what about it?
[00:56] <axp2> i learned it a long time ago but have not used it for a while
[00:57] <axp2> i can read it but don't currently attempt to use it
[00:57] <cafezim> Because i am interested in OS
[00:57] <cafezim> programming
[00:57] <axp2> do you know C?
[00:58] <cafezim> not much
[00:59] <axp2> I think alot of the OS is written in C
[00:59] <axp2> but I'd recommend you start with the two links I gave you
[00:59] <axp2> the first one will give you an idea of the structure of things and how it all fits together
[00:59] <axp2> the second one is a good place to get started with small bugs that are (supposed to be) easily fixed
[01:00] <cafezim> https://launchpad.net/~papercuts-ninja
[01:00] <cafezim> this one?
[01:00] <axp2> yep. i started out with papercuts and after i'd fixed some bugs for software centre i just started writing code for it directly
[01:01] <cafezim> fixing bugs is helpful
[01:01] <axp2> sorry I have to go now, good luck. if you want to start learning some python, diveintopython.org is a good starting point
[01:01] <cafezim> thanks man, peace
[01:01] <axp2> i came from java too and i love python now
[01:01] <axp2> bye
[01:02] <cafezim> ok
[01:11] <cafezim> Tem brasileiro aqui?
[01:11] <cafezim> Ou so gringo doido
[01:33] <cafezim> hi folks how can I help
[01:33] <cafezim> ?
[01:33] <cafezim> I am good at java
[01:43] <mirak_> hi
[01:45] <cafezim> hi everyone
[01:45] <cafezim> I have just joined https://launchpad.net/~papercuts-ninja
[01:46] <cafezim> for fixing bugs
[01:46] <cafezim> enter if you have programming skills
[04:42] <ScottK> slangasek: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/74126243/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-i386.pdns_2.9.22-9build1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz looks like a multi-arch related build failure to me.
[09:24] <ohsix> hm why are the changelogs in aptitude still broken for security and proposed packages
[09:49] <cjwatson> sveinse: all binary packages come from source packages.  to do what you're asking, simply have the source package not do anything interesting at the build step, and just have it copy the binaries into the output tree
[09:50] <cjwatson> source package doesn't necessarily imply distinct source code
[09:50] <cjwatson> (although it's usual, hence the name)
[12:31] <notdurandal> anyone awake?
[14:28] <MeIsBrains> hey all
[14:28] <MeIsBrains> braaaand new here
[14:29] <MeIsBrains> anyone here?
[15:06] <cjwatson> lamont: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/3.0-2.3/+build/2590256 looks stalled to me; hasn't shifted since I checked earlier this morning
[15:07] <cjwatson> and has taken over 14 hours longer than the previous build https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/3.0-1.2/+build/2571636 so ofar
[15:07] <cjwatson> *far
[21:44] <slangasek> ScottK: confirmed; bypassing autoconf, grr
[21:45] <ScottK> slangasek: Have fun.


[08:53] <pitti> dholbach: pkg-create-dbgsym 0.14 uploaded, right in time for this cron.daily; so in about an hour we can ask for a give-back of opal
[08:54] <dholbach> and after that a give back of ekiga
[08:54] <dholbach> pitti: enjoy
[08:54] <pitti> dholbach: bah, does that fail as well?
[08:54] <dholbach> it requires opal
[08:54] <pitti> ah
[08:54] <dholbach> opal and pwlib are ... weird :)
[08:54] <pitti> you bet...
[09:02] <tkamppeter> mdz, I do not ask you to upload anything, I have only asked for the current state. Uploads were done by pitti, and doko_.
[09:03] <pitti> tkamppeter: (FYI, you can check this on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/foomatic-db and similar)
[09:03] <tkamppeter> Riddell: ping
[09:03] <tkamppeter> Kamion: ping
[09:06] <ajmitch> morning all
[09:08] <ajmitch> jdong: 5am in melbourne, you'd be lucky
[09:09] <jdong> infinity: ARRRISE from your eternal sleep!
[09:09] <Treenaks> infernal sleep?
[09:10] <micahcowan> if he arose from it, it could hardly be eternal, now could it? :p
[09:12] <jdong> anyone else have a good explanation why a trivially small package would wait 24 hours and still await building? :P
[09:12] <jdong> other than karma's trying to punish me for my dyslexic QA?
[09:13] <slomo_> jdong: openoffice and build priorities ;)
[09:13] <jdong> slomo_: grr, openoffice
[09:13] <jdong> you guys shoved like 3 through within the past 24 hours :P
[09:14] <Nafallo> no, there where more than 3 :-)
[09:14] <tseng> it isnt really " you guys "
[09:16] <tseng> infinity: could you look at "chroot problem" on beagle 0.2.9-1ubuntu2?
[09:16] <tseng> infinity: amd64, ia64, ppc
[09:16] <tseng> infinity: please
[09:17] <tseng> whatever that means
[09:24] <cbx33> guys...how do I go about installing the smp kernel?
[09:25] <micahcowan> micah prefers the lim[x->5]  1/(x-5) approach. There! Now you're guaranteed to find infinity.
[09:26] <micahcowan> speaking of which: http://immense-world.blogspot.com/2006/09/mathematics-genius.html
[09:26] <Burgwork> micahcowan, that is kind of off topic
[09:27] <micahcowan> Well, it's at least heading in that direction, yes. My apologies.
[09:27] <Burgwork> cbx33, this is -devel, not user support. If you use x86, smp support is built into the standard kernel and enabled upon cpu detection
[09:28] <Nafallo> Burgwork: not just x86 fwiw :-)
[09:28] <cbx33> sorry Burgwork
[09:28] <Burgwork> Nafallo, yes, but if you have big iron, you need specific kernels for dapper
[09:29] <Nafallo> infinity: where is erlang-nox? :-)
[09:29] <Nafallo> Burgwork: that would be x86 ;-). amd64 and friend have the SMP-stuff as well :-)
[09:29] <Nafallo> Burgwork: that's more my point :-)
[09:31] <Kamion> tkamppeter: yes?
[09:32] <fabbione> good night everybody
[09:32] <fabbione> cya tomorrw
[09:33] <Nafallo> Kamion: maybe you know where erlang-nox is? should have been built after the erlang sync and ejabberd needs it :-).
[09:34] <mdz> pitti: do the ddebs have proper dependencies?
[09:34] <Kamion> Nafallo: version number?
[09:35] <Nafallo> Kamion: 1:11.b.1-1
[09:35] <Kamion> Nafallo: there is no package called erlang-nox in the archive
[09:35] <Kamion> ah, it's in NEW
[09:35] <pitti> mdz: FSVO 'proper', yes; they depend on the exact version of the corresponding deb and don't have any other dependencies
[09:35] <Kamion> Nafallo: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue for future reference
[09:36] <Nafallo> Kamion: ah! care to wave it through so that I can close the "please update ejabberd"-bug? :-)
[09:36] <mdz> pitti: I mean, e.g. where a package depends on libraries, does it depend/recommend/suggest the corresponding debug symbols?
[09:36] <pitti> mdz: ah; no, it doesn't
[09:36] <mdz> I think it's appropriate to at least suggest all of the symbols, and in some cases recommend
[09:36] <Kamion> Nafallo: guess what I was doing right after telling you it was in NEW ...
[09:36] <pitti> mdz: I was going to handle that in apport-retrace
[09:36] <mdz> pitti: hmm, interesting
[09:36] <Nafallo> Kamion: thanks! :-)
[09:36] <Kamion> you're welcome
[09:36] <pitti> mdz: suggests: would be appropriate, though, I'll TODO that
[09:37] <pitti> mdz: the more important thing is that I have to Conflicts: to a -dbg, if present
[09:38] <BenC> did lp just die?
[09:38] <tseng> BenC: works for me
[09:38] <ajmitch> gave me issues a few minutes ago
[09:39] <BenC> working now it seems
[09:39] <BenC> went away for about 1 minute
[09:49] <mdz> tkamppeter: btw, it looks like your uploads used an invalid email address in the .changes file.  If you use a correct email address (a confirmed email address in launchpad) you will receive notification when your uploads are accepted
[09:58] <tkamppeter> mdz, I did not do any upload. pitti and doko_ did them. pitti told me that one needs special permissions for uploading.
[09:59] <tkamppeter> Kamion, did you have a problem of printing with KDE? What is exactly your problem?
[09:59] <mdz> tkamppeter: we often use "upload" to refer to the .changes and associated files which are uploaded
[09:59] <mdz> tkamppeter: what I mean is that if you prepare the .changes correctly, and then give it to pitti or doko, you can still receive a notification when it is processed
[09:59] <Kamion> tkamppeter: I don't use KDE, so no, that wasn't me
[09:59] <mdz> tkamppeter: usually this is done by setting the DEBEMAIL environment variable
[10:00] <mdz> tkamppeter: it was Riddell who mentioned a KDE printing issue during the meeting earlier
[10:00] <doko_> mdz: I didn't see  an approval for foo2zjs
[10:01] <Kamion> mdz: bug 61723 often happens to me when I run setupcon from an X terminal (X apparently gets horribly confused by the invasion of /dev/console and throws a wobbly), so if that's happening during upgrade, I think I should beta it
[10:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61723 in console-setup "[PPC]  distupgrade from dapper to edgy kills X keyboard" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61723
[10:02] <tkamppeter> for example foo2zjs_20060625dfsg-2_i386.changes? Do I have to edit the "Changed-by:" field in it so that I get notification?
[10:02] <mdz> Kamion: agreed
[10:02] <mdz> Kamion: I have an idle ppc here if you need help testing
[10:03] <mdz> I think it may even have a fresh dapper on it
[10:03] <Kamion> not for that particular bug, but it may be useful for other things
[10:03] <tkamppeter> Thanks, mdz, have added this variable in my .bashrc
[10:04] <tkamppeter> Riddell, are you here?
[10:07] <mdz> tkamppeter: when you run dpkg-buildpackage, it will put $DEBEMAIL in the right place
[10:07] <tkamppeter> doko_, pitti: mdz has approved the update of foo2zjs.
[10:07] <tkamppeter> mdz, I will see it on my next package build.
[10:08] <pitti> tkamppeter: ah, nice
[10:10] <doko_> tkamppeter: uploaded
[10:14] <agutierr> I have a problem remastering a ubuntu cd: after the isolinux load and search the cdrom drivers, I have the next error: "The CD available is not a Ubuntu cd" :?
[10:17] <desrt> so uh.  the ATI thing is cute.
[10:17] <desrt> i wonder how we're gonna deal with it.
[10:19] <BenC> deal with what?
[10:20] <HiddenWolf> BenC: fglrx now comes in a -legacy edition too
[10:20] <HiddenWolf> desrt: -legacy will only be for cards that are well supported by open drivers, so it shouldn't be too big a deal.
[10:20] <desrt> ya.  time to relive the madwifi thing
[10:20] <desrt> except backwards
[10:21] <desrt> the new ati drivers (fglrx) drop support for a bunch of cards
[10:21] <Burgwork> desrt, aren't closed and semi closed drivers great?
[10:21] <desrt> heh.
[10:22] <desrt> i guess we'll have fglrx and fglrx_og (old generation)
[10:22] <Yagisan> pitti, you here ?
[10:22] <desrt> with _og only enabled for the cards that _require_ it
[10:22] <HiddenWolf> Burgwork: I'm secretly hoping they'll open up the old stuff at least partially. Call me an optimist.
[10:23] <HiddenWolf> desrt: og would only be for pre-9250, which all work fine with open drivers already, so there is no real _need_ for those closed drivers. It's just the upgrade that should be handled.
[10:24] <desrt> fglrx works better than dri in most cases
[10:24] <Yagisan> pitti, O_O -> jamie@doomguy:~/COIT12170_Data_Comms$ *** stack smashing detected ***: /usr/lib/openoffice/program/soffice.bin terminated
[10:24] <HiddenWolf> desrt: but it's open, so you can debug it and fix it and backtrace it. :)
[10:46] <KaiL> Riddell, amarok 1.4.3 is searching a "libvisual-0.4-0", which isn't anywhere :(
[10:52] <JamieBE> Hello, could someone with javascript know-how answer me a really quick question?
[10:52] <JamieBE> ...Please
[10:53] <beuno> sure
[10:53] <beuno> I'll give it a try
[10:54] <sharms> !offtopic
[10:58] <gnomefreak> JamieBE: support questions should be in #ubuntu, #ubuntu+1, #kubuntu, #xubuntu. this channel should be used only for development topics. (im guessing this is what sharms meant by !offtopic) :)
[10:59] <beuno> JamieBE: you can private me if you want to
[10:59] <gnomefreak> ubotu test
[11:00] <gnomefreak> !test
[11:00] <JamieBE> OK, This is a little complicated. I have an ubuntu app - Lodju which is now quite outdated and a little unsupported. What this app does is created HTML pages for information and images you feed it to create a web gallery. It uses python variables within HTML templates that came packaged with it to dynamically generate the complete HTML product. The problem is that in the HTML thumbnails page the code basically produces: Show image one. Show Image two
[11:00] <JamieBE> . Show Image three...all next to eachother and so on... What I want is for 4 columns on images (as I have different resolutions of thumbnails) to sit neatly within a valign="center" table cell. What i can to is to call a new table with tr and td for each image, and then on every multiple of 4 call a
 but I need to generate this as the HTML is build by the app. Hence the javascript idea. I need something along the lines in pseudo code
[11:00] <JamieBE> of:
[11:01] <gnomefreak> :(
[11:10] <dholbach> can somebody please give back libgnomeuimm2.6?
[11:16] <tkamppeter> doko_, thanks for the upload, I am closing some more bugs now.
[11:18] <JamieBE> In Javascript is there a way of saying "If this number is a multiple of 4 then..."
[11:20] <Kamion> use the % operator, as in many other languages
[11:21] <Kamion> (number % 4) will be zero if number is a multiple of 4
[11:21] <JamieBE> Night kamion
[11:38] <mdz> doko: when did oo.o start using bzip2?  I don't see it in the changelog
[12:03] <Riddell> mdz: are we frozen yet?
[12:05] <Nafallo> Riddell: mail on ubuntu-devel-announce :-)
[12:06] <Nafallo> that's a yes btw ;-)
[12:07] <beuno> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-September/000196.html
[12:07] <mdz> Riddell: right on schedule
[12:07] <mdz> Riddell: though we're a little bit slushy
[12:08] <mdz> I still wouldn't recommend any swimming
[12:08] <Riddell> mdz: right, I have a slightly altered usplash from kwwii to upload and kubuntu-docs if that's ok
[12:09] <mdz> Riddell: yep


[07:58] <nigelb> oh, yay trolls
[07:59] <pleia2> yeah, and sleepytime for me
[07:59] <AlanBell> yeah, just read back in #ubuntu too
[08:00] <pleia2> you all seem to have it covered :)
[08:01] <nigelb> elky is here.  Its covered. :D
[08:01] <pleia2> school in the US starts their winter holiday around now, I suspect we'll see this for a couple weeks
[08:01] <nigelb> hah
[08:01] <elky> i need to get home and finish washing clothes for flying to visit folks tomorrow at some point though
[08:01] <valorie> snotty little brats should be doing GCI instead of trolling!
[08:02] <nigelb> +1
[08:02] <nigelb> +100 for the 'snotty little brats'
[08:02] <pleia2> lol
[08:20] <valorie> I've been dealing with GREAT kids for a few weeks!
[08:20] <valorie> those are disappointing


[00:00] <jrwren_> living is learning.
[00:00] <jrwren_> I had no idea.
[00:03] <gamerchick02> https://telegram.me/ubuntuusmi has been moved to https://telegram.me/joinchat/CuS4wwcBU1Rj_Pn5hf9i5g
[00:03] <jrwren_> yay!
[00:03] <gamerchick02> please join the GROUP and not the CHANNEL
[00:03] <gamerchick02> my mistake
[18:28] <gamerchick02> please don't forget about the telegram group: https://telegram.me/joinchat/CuS4wwcBU1Rj_Pn5hf9i5g
[18:28] <gamerchick02> and! we can send announcements to the telegram channel: https://telegram.me/ubuntuusmi


[08:26] <JamesTait> Goooooooood morning all! :)
[11:03] <ralsina> good morning!
[11:07] <gatox> good morning!
[11:17] <ralsina> hola gatox
[11:17] <gatox> ralsina, hi
[11:18] <mandel> ralsina, gatox hello!
[11:18] <ralsina> hello mandel-at-copenhagen!
[11:19] <mandel> ralsina, not yet, going tom at 6 am
[11:19] <mandel> ralsina, are you in eu already?
[11:19] <ralsina> mandel: no, arriving next saturday
[11:21] <mandel> ralsina, ahhh ok, by the way, nice post!
[11:21] <mandel> ralsina, too cheesy for a macho like me, but good :)
[11:21] <ralsina> gracias :-)
[11:21] <ralsina> mandel: come on, you
[11:21] <ralsina> are a mama's boy, and we all know it
[11:21] <mandel> lol
[11:28] <karni> Good morning all!
[11:32] <ralsina> morning karni!
[11:32] <ralsina> Nothing seems to be on fire, so I'm taking my son to school. Be back in a while!
[11:32] <karni> ralsina: Morning!
[11:32] <karni> :)
[12:09] <gatox> people..... i need to leave for a few minutes..... brb
[12:20] <gatox> back!
[12:37] <dobey> hmm
[12:39] <gatox> hi dobey ..... what happend?
[12:40] <dobey> installed new hdd/quantal on workstation
[12:41] <gatox> dobey, and it's not working?
[12:41] <dobey> also put my old nvidia 9500gt in it, so i could use both monitors again
[12:42] <dobey> it's working, but there are some oddities
[12:43] <dobey> and i can't get jackd to start :(
[13:15] <mmcc> Hi folks, in a bit early today. I have a DMV appointment this afternoon which *should* be fast, but … DMV.
[13:16] <briancurtin> mmcc: i'm sorry
[13:18] <dobey> "appointment"
[13:20] <gatox> what is dmv?
[13:20] <dobey> department of motor vehicles
[13:20] <gatox> ahhhh
[13:23] <dobey> wow, quantal-backports has stuff in it already
[13:23] <dobey> crazy
[13:24] <ralsina> dobey: backport from what? Have the R archives even opened?
[13:25] <dobey> i don't know
[13:25] <dobey> but handbrake-gtk is in quantal-backports
[13:25] <dobey> i didn't even realize backports was enabled by default
[13:30] <ralsina> it kinda defeats the idea of backports
[13:30] <ralsina> if it's going to be enabled by default, just call it main
[13:31] <dobey> well if it's going to be enabled by default just put stuff in -updates
[13:31] <briancurtin> and rename main to real-main
[13:31] <dobey> crap
[13:31] <ralsina> "main" "real-main" "newer-than-main-main" and "slow-main"
[13:32] <dobey> my raid is confused now :(
[13:42] <mandel> oh my god, I'm surrounded by works... workers in the apartment next door are taking down walls and got road works..
[13:43] <briancurtin> mandel: there are two seasons in chicago - winter and construction
[13:43] <mandel> lol
[13:46] <dobey> how to get my raid back :(
[13:55] <ralsina> dobey: you may have to reassemble it manually from a live CD
[13:55] <dobey> eh?
[13:57] <dobey> shouldn't it just see the raid superblocks and be all like "oh hi, this disk goes here, and this other one goes here, and on and on" ?
[13:58] <ralsina> dobey: yes
[13:58] <ralsina> dobey: obviously that has not worked, has it?
[13:59] <dobey> no, it has not :(
[13:59] <mmcc> mandel, with current control-panel trunk I'm still getting two simultaneous loading overlays… I do see the name getting updated before the top overlay goes away, but there are still two. am I missing something?
[13:59] <ralsina> dobey: unless you got it all via UUIDs sometimes upgrades breaks device ordering
[14:00] <mandel> mmcc, really? which revno do you have?
[14:00] <dobey> ralsina: i used by-id to add the disks to the RAID originally, because the device ordering gets broken even when i power the raid enclosure off and then back on or reboot the server
[14:01] <dobey> ralsina: this is what i get: https://plus.google.com/103117938079967018309/posts/LWBBTUZYZYa
[14:01] <ralsina> dobey: hmmm then it *should* have just worked. Maybe it's marked as offline? What's in your /proc/mdstat?
[14:02] <mmcc> mandel my revno is off right now, it's in a long-lived branch, but it's merged with current trunk and has your branch from last wednesday.
[14:02] <ralsina> dobey: ugh, that's really out of sync and doesn't know how to fix it
[14:06] <dobey> hrmm
[14:06] <dobey> how can I fix it?
[14:06] <karni> dobey: My only concern with using RAID is when something goes wrong, I'm in deep shit. I hope you'll resolve your problem quickly.
[14:07] <karni> facundobatista also had a problem with recovering RAID some time ago, IIRC.
[14:07] <dobey> karni: that's why I was using RAID 10, with 4 drives.
[14:07] <dobey> admittedly, this current situation was totally unexpected though
[14:08] <ralsina> dobey: how critical is it that you don't lose stuff?
[14:08] <ralsina> dobey: I would remove two drives :-(
[14:08] <facundobatista> karni, dobey, the one time I really needed mirroring (one FS broke), mdraid completely failed on me, will never use again
[14:08] <ralsina> dobey: and then, with a single copy of the mirrored data, try to add them back
[14:09] <ralsina> dobey: but the chance of failure is...
[14:09] <karni> RAID 10 "provides fault tolerance and improved performance but increases complexity". aha
[14:09] <dobey> i would prefer not to lose stuff; but i have pretty much all the data available elsewhere still. only thing i don't have elsewhere is the pxe config, but it's rebuildable
[14:09] <mandel> mmcc, weird.. cause it should work, can you try running trunk alone
[14:11] <ralsina> facundobatista: RAID is not backup.
[14:11] <dobey> ralsina: well mdadm -A -R seems to complain that the md is already in use
[14:11] <ralsina> facundobatista: RAID is only supposed to give you a chance at surviving failure. It does fail quite often at that.
[14:11] <karni> ralsina: "two geographically different storages" eh :)?
[14:11] <mmcc> mandel trying now…
[14:12] <ralsina> dobey: ok, no idea what that could mean
[14:12] <ralsina> karni: I was a sysadmin in my previous life. I have seen RAID work, and I have seen it not work. I have replaced it with nightly rsyncs to a spare drive, too ;-)
[14:13] <karni> ralsina: Interesting. I was thinking on investing some $ in a QNAP nas with 5-6 disk bays, and set it up with RAID
[14:13] <dobey> ralsina: my favorite is people who use RAID 0 and expect it to work
[14:14] <mmcc> mandel, looks like it does work, sorry for the false alarm
[14:14] <mandel> mmcc, no problem :)
[14:14] <dobey> and people who try to use raid 5 or 6 and have no idea what they're doing
[14:14]  * mmcc considers adding a bzr switch alias that kills .pyc files
[14:15] <ralsina> dobey: RAID 0 is fun. I just described it as "imagina a very fast, very crappy disk" :-)
[14:15] <dobey> s/fast/large/
[14:15] <ralsina> dobey: actually, on SCSI it was fast
[14:16] <ralsina> dobey: I suppose on separate SATA controllers it should be fast again
[14:16] <dobey> well, the more disks you add on SATA, the faster it will get, yeah. but mostly it's a very large and crappy disk :)
[14:16] <dobey> if the fast bit matters, just save your data to /dev/null
[14:16] <dobey> it will have roughly the same effect
[14:16] <ralsina> dobey: slower than that, slightly less data loss
[14:17] <ralsina> hard shutdowns on raid0 are hilarious
[14:17] <dobey> ralsina: until any one of the disks have a hint of failure; then you lose all your data, not just some of it :)
[14:17] <ralsina> dobey: that's where you thank the sysadmin that did backups ;-)
[14:18] <ralsina> it's mostly just knowing what can go wrong, estimating a lot, revise upwards, then do backups anyway
[14:19] <ralsina> I had a guy once ask me to setup raid 50 because he read about it on wikipedia and "50 is much better than this 1+0 crap"
[14:19] <dobey> lol
[14:19] <dobey> raid 5+0 ?
[14:20] <dobey> that's a bit insane but certainly doable, and a total waste of time
[14:20] <ralsina> dobey: also, seek time increases cuadratically when you add disks. And the smaller setup uses 9 disks.
[14:21] <dobey> yeah
[14:21] <ralsina> I could do a raid 55 if I wanted to, I am just not insane :-)
[14:21] <dobey> the problem with backing up RAID is that you typically need another RAID to do it with
[14:22] <dobey> anyway
[14:22] <dobey> i just want my disks back and working now :(
[14:22] <dobey> and i think my emacs is broken now too. quantal has different emacs
[14:28] <joshuahoover> mmcc: user on a intel core duo mac running 10.6.8 gets this message when he tries to run u1: "You can't open the application Ubuntu One because it is not supported on this type of Mac" ...any ideas?
[14:30] <mmcc> joshuahoover, well, that's a surprise.  That's not a 64-bit processor, so yeah, our code won't work there. It's not a global issue. It looks like someone else has already filed a bug for this, so I just tagged and confirmed it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-client/+bug/1066397
[14:36] <joshuahoover> mmcc: ah, ok...64-bit, i forgot about that
[14:36] <mmcc> joshuahoover yeah, we might need to update some documentation for that…  Kind of a big change, but all they add is one number
[14:37] <mmcc> ralsina , wrt 32 bit version, I'm thinking that bug should be set as low priority maybe?
[14:38] <ralsina> mmcc: yes
[14:41] <dobey> mmcc: although, amusing that they still make Pentium 4 chips, though the P6 is long dead. :)
[14:43] <dobey> ralsina: bahahah, multiple new bugs about "u1 logs out when removing device"
[14:43] <ralsina> dobey: yep
[14:44] <mmcc> dobey literally still p4 chips (I didn't know that), or that the recent cores look like p4 (what's old is new again, etc?)
[14:45] <dobey> actually, i think the origial pentium III came after the p6 anyway. and maybe the Pentium II even. don't remember the exact timeframes, but i'm sure wikipedia has them
[14:46] <mmcc> yeah, still more stupid chip names, they named their microarchitectures 'pN' and some of their brand names also start with a P
[14:47] <dobey> oh man, encrypted disks is a lot like using RAID 0
[14:47] <mmcc> One thing I liked that Oracle did when they took over was make the chip/µarch names sane :) boring but sane…
[14:47] <ralsina> mmcc: well, now they are all named after vermont bed&breakfast inns
[14:47] <dobey> a couple of bad blocks and then you can't decrypt the disk and get your data any more
[14:47] <mmcc> ralsina exactly, INsane!
[14:48]  * mmcc is a fan of using numbers for version names. (Stupid 'big cat' names on OS X…)
[14:49] <dobey> OSX 10.10 Liliger?
[14:49] <mmcc> dobey: >_<
[14:49]  * ralsina is a great fan of the ipad versioning number. "This is the new ipad. That is now the old ipad. That other one is the obsolete ipad. The first one is now called the haha-he-thinks-thats-an-ipad"
[14:50] <briancurtin> have to love windows versioning. Windows 7 was version 6.0, 8 is 6.2, etc
[14:50] <ralsina> briancurtin: plus the 8 significant digit version numbers
[14:50] <dobey> win7 iso i have is 6.1.abunchofothernumbersrandomlysplitwithaperiod
[14:51] <mmcc> ralsina: luckily, when you go to look for support at apple it's "iPad (late 2011)" or whatever. So all you need to do now is remember when you bought the thing, and whether or not it was kind of new when you bought it, and etc etc (just shoot me)
[14:51] <ralsina> I think I feel crankyness in the air today.
[14:51] <mmcc> MONDAY!
[14:51] <dobey> RAGE!
[14:52] <ralsina> mmcc: I imagine the QA tree "is it black, squarish, with rounded corners? Is it larger than a loaf of bread?"
[14:52] <mmcc> ralsina a regular or gluten-free loaf?
[14:52] <briancurtin> mmcc: i'm looking forward to windows tablet confusion. "well when did you buy it, and is it WinRT only or does it support the full windows 8?" - "uhhhhhhhhhhh"
[14:52] <dobey> ralsina: how tallis your iphone?
[14:53] <briancurtin> "come on, is it ARM or intel?" - "uhhhh"
[14:53] <mmcc> briancurtin - now that's what I got into computing for!
[14:58] <ralsina> does it have a keyboard? Can you detach the screen? Did anything fall off?
[15:00] <karni> me
[15:00] <rockstar> me
[15:00] <gatox> me
[15:00] <dobey> me
[15:01] <ralsina> me
[15:01] <briancurtin> me
[15:02] <mmcc> me
[15:02] <karni> Shall I start?
[15:02] <ralsina> I feel someone is missing...
[15:02] <ralsina> karni: go ahead
[15:02]  * karni same
[15:02] <karni> DONE: Hooked up player UI album artist, titles. Handled a few support tickets. Talked with Zac about music v2 API.
[15:02] <karni> TODO: Playback control + seek(?)
[15:02] <karni> next: rockstar
[15:02] <karni> BLOCKED: No.
[15:02] <rockstar> TODO: Sort out bugs in Core Data<->RestKit bindings.
[15:02] <rockstar> BLOCKED: No
[15:02] <rockstar> NEXT: gatox
[15:02] <gatox> DONE:
[15:02] <gatox> Search and filter for filesystem manager data inside u1-client implemented, finishing with the tests.
[15:02] <gatox> TODO:
[15:02] <gatox> Proposed the u1-client search and filter branch, refactor u1-cp to work with this new change. Move on to the ux improves in u1-cp
[15:02] <gatox> BLOCKED:
[15:02] <gatox> No
[15:02] <gatox> dobey, go
[15:02] <dobey> DONE: reviews, discussed pyflakes fix with upstream, backported pyflakes upstream fix for WindowsError to nightlies, more work on #1068335
[15:02] <dobey> TODO: finish bug #1068335, bug #711324, more pyflakes fix discussion
[15:02] <dobey> ralsina: go
[15:03] <dobey> BLCK: None.
[15:03] <ralsina> DONE: some reviews, calls, tried to remember C++ via hypnosis, failed TODO: start hitting the books, calls BLOCKED: no NEXT: briancurtin
[15:03] <briancurtin> DONE: potenaially fixed SSO tests in https://code.launchpad.net/~brian.curtin/ubuntu-sso-client/nam-setproxy-windows-workaround (mandel could you check that out?), was able to reproduce the certificate problems in SSO by explicitly configuring no certs, but adding the right certs doesn't yet appear to be working
[15:03] <briancurtin> TODO: figure out the ins-and-outs of configuring the certs from a file
[15:03] <briancurtin> NOTE: i have a half day today
[15:03] <briancurtin> NEXT: mmcc
[15:03] <mandel> me
[15:03] <briancurtin> s/potenaially/potentially
[15:03] <mmcc> DONE: cocoa sync menu stuff on mac & showing downloads in menu,
[15:03] <mmcc> TODO: qt sync menu, cocoa sync menu, tests
[15:03] <mmcc> NOTE: DMV appointment this afternoon
[15:03] <mmcc> next mandel
[15:03] <mandel> DONE: Got back to get unity to compile. Added extra tests
[15:03] <mandel> TODO: Arrange diff travels
[15:03] <mandel> BLOCKED: no
[15:03] <karni> ha! we were right ralsina , we were missing mandel
[15:04] <ralsina> I think that's everyone, alecu is on vacation petting giant mice
[15:04] <ralsina> Any questions, comments?
[15:04] <mmcc> and then he's going to leave his hotel in florida and go to disney land
[15:05] <mmcc> er, world
[15:05] <ralsina> mmcc: exactly
[15:06] <ralsina> florida is scary. I went out for a walk and to buy sandals and saw an alligator.
[15:06] <ralsina> too much nature & disney
[15:06] <karni> ralsina: I was never required to go to UDS (although I wanted, it just was usually far, or I couldn't make it). This time I didn't manage to arrange things on time (too bad, because it's close). We're not required all as a team to go there, are we?
[15:07] <ralsina> karni: as a team we have little to gain from UDS
[15:07]  * karni nods
[15:07] <karni> That's what I though, ack.
[15:07] <ralsina> karni: although we usually keep some presence. This time... well, it was complicated.
[15:07] <mandel> karni, but I'll try to bully the unity guys to be nice with us :)
[15:07] <karni> mandel: ha! :))
[15:07] <ralsina> mvo! We missed mvo (but he's excused from standup because he's in copenhagen)
[15:07] <karni> ralsina: ACK, thanks
[15:08] <mvo> ralsina: yeah, my calendar just reminded me
[15:08] <mvo> but I don't have anything to report really yet, except product sprint discussions
[15:08]  * karni note to self, 10 folks on the team
[15:08] <ralsina> mvo: FUN
[15:08] <mvo> intense!
[15:09] <mvo> I will write a summary about it tomorrow
[15:09] <ralsina> mvo: awesome
[15:10] <mvo> but please keep going, I don't want to interrupt the meeting :)
[15:10] <karni> mvo: We're done :)
[15:10]  * mvo nods
[15:14] <mandel> ralsina, I'll probably go earlier 'cause I have to sort out everything for copenhaguen AND tahiland because I get back on friday at 11:30 pm and leave to thailand at 3:00 am
[15:15] <ralsina> mandel: ack
[15:15] <ralsina> mandel: you can swap .5 days there if you want to make it all neat and legal
[15:16] <briancurtin> mandel, thailand, and legal in the same sentence. feels weird
[15:16] <mandel> briancurtin, lol
[15:16] <mandel> ralsina, you mean for now? or when?
[15:16] <ralsina> mandel: for the trip back
[15:17] <ralsina> mandel: so you swap now with the half day from the trip back
[15:17] <mandel> ralsina, oh, well, is not a problem for me, if you want I can do :)
[15:17] <ralsina> mandel: no need
[15:17] <mandel> ralsina, I'm one hour away from the official EOD, so as you wish :)
[15:18] <ralsina> mandel: go ahead then
[15:19] <mandel> let me finish some things first :)
[15:22] <dobey> ok, need to get lunch. bbiab
[15:25]  * gatox lunch
[15:27] <mmcc> gatox when you get back from _lunch, I have a question about the systray sync menu code - why are the uploads sorted by #bytes written?
[15:34] <mmcc> briancurtin, not sure if this is relevant to what you're looking at now, but maybe interesting - I'm testing on windows and doing a lot of starting & stopping u1, and I notice ubuntuone-proxy-tunnel seems to stick around after quitting syncdaemon. Not sure if that's intended.
[15:35] <mmcc> briancurtin that's apparently what was holding onto my log files, at least partially
[15:36] <briancurtin> mmcc: i believe that only happens from source, but yeah that is an issue that you have to look out for
[15:37] <briancurtin> mmcc: for the time being, that's why i keep process explorer open to watch the process tree that stays open after shutting stuff down, then kill the remaining proxy-tunnel
[15:37] <mmcc> briancurtin aha, ok. weird, but I'm still getting that log error even with a clean sart
[15:37] <mmcc> start
[15:42]  * mmcc drags out his old windows troubleshooting skills… RESTART
[15:42] <mmcc> (next step, reinstall)
[15:45] <jgdx> when I worked in the it support business we skipped the first step there
[15:45] <jgdx> printer not installed? format, reinstall
[15:47] <mmcc> nice…
[15:47] <mmcc> brb
[15:48] <jgdx> real pros
[15:52] <mandel> EOD for me.. next few days I'll be in copenhaguen, so I won't be that much around
[15:56] <ralsina> bye mandel!
[16:11] <mmcc> so, --with-icon is on by default on windows, correct? I see it in ubuntuone.xml…
[16:11] <ralsina> mmcc: yes
[16:11] <mmcc> ralsina ok, thanks
[16:11] <briancurtin> mmcc: the installer starts it with that, and the desktop shortcuts and whatnot use it
[16:11] <ralsina> it's on by default, we may or may not have forgotten to remove it from the launcher ;-)
[16:12] <ralsina> lunch for me!
[16:15] <mmcc> briancurtin, should ubuntuone-client/ubuntuone/syncdaemon/logger.py ignore WindowsError as well as OSError? I'm getting WindowsErrors because the log file is in use by another process (still, even after restart, no idea which process)
[16:15] <briancurtin> mmcc: have you installed u1 on this machine or are you only running from source?
[16:16] <mmcc> briancurtin still only from source. Should I just install it?
[16:16] <briancurtin> if you have it installed *and* try to run from source, you'll need to be careful to shut everything down that was started from the install before running anything from source
[16:17] <mmcc> oh
[16:18] <mmcc> well, looking at procexp I see nothing of mine. some of the logs (u1cp) are showing up now that I've killed the proxy-tunnel, but the u1-client logs look like they aren't working. FWIW, I'm running u1cp to start everything, and all in one terminal
[16:19] <mmcc> and %U1_DEBUG% is 1. Is it running into problems trying to write to the same stdout/stderr or something?
[16:20] <briancurtin> that shouldnt be a problem
[16:23] <mmcc> yeah, I tried in a separate window and just syncdaemon with no CP also gets that log file ownership error… bleh
[16:26] <mmcc> fwiw, this is what I'm seeing: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1297883/
[16:27] <briancurtin> mmcc: that's one i've never seen
[16:27] <mmcc> I think this exception is screwing up the sync status signal, since the status is stuck at 'file sync in progress'
[16:27] <mmcc> this is annoying because I'm trying to test the menu…
[16:27] <briancurtin> hm...now *that* is something i did see last week
[16:28] <briancurtin> unfortunately i have to leave in a few minutes. have a half day that i'll be spending in doctors offices. a true "holiday"
[16:28]  * briancurtin wishes canonical admin had a way of requesting days off for misery instead of holiday
[16:29] <mmcc> doesn't 'holiday' mean misery in british? Or have I just watched too many Top Gear segments about campers?
[16:37] <karni> mmcc: haha
[16:39] <gatox> back
[17:00] <mmcc> gatox, did you see my question from right as you went to lunch? I'm wondering why the code in systray.py sorts the current uploads by # bytes written…
[17:01] <gatox> mmcc, didn't see the question..... the answer is: so we try to prioritize the files with the the most bytes written to be shown in the menu, that would that are the files currently being transfered
[17:02] <gatox> s/that would/that would mean
[17:02] <mmcc> ok
[17:03] <dobey> oh
[17:03] <mmcc> that's a little confusing.
[17:04] <gatox> mmcc, why?
[17:04] <ralsina> files with greater number of bytes written ~ files that have been transferring longer?
[17:05] <mmcc> so, the problem is that we get a list of all files being transferred and we want to find the five "most interesting" ones, for some value of interesting…
[17:06] <gatox> yes
[17:06] <mmcc> but is #bytes written the right one? and is it possible for a file to get bumped out of those five without actually completing?
[17:07] <ralsina> mmcc: that would mean a newer file is uploading significantly faster than an older one
[17:07] <mmcc> I guess maybe that works…
[17:07] <gatox> ralsina, what are you doing with c++?
[17:08] <ralsina> gatox: it's called "understanding what the devs will be doing this cycle"
[17:08] <gatox> :P
[17:08] <ralsina> gatox: it's recommended for team managers ;-)
[17:09] <gatox> ralsina, unless you are really confident...... ok, no.......
[17:09] <gatox> jeje
[17:10] <gatox> i think i'll be playing with c++ this weekend
[17:14] <ralsina> the manual memory management, the  punctuation... it hurts my little brain now.
[17:14] <mmcc> looking at the code in aggregator.py - it looks like if we didn't sort, the uploads would just be displayed in order of when they were started. what I'm confused about is why sorting by bytes written is better.
[17:15] <mmcc> if you're wondering why I'm wondering, I'm trying to make sure I match the existing implementation with the new cocoa menu
[17:16] <mmcc> and I just used the existing order before I looked at the old version, so wanted to understand why it was the way it was
[17:17] <ralsina> mmcc: good attention to detail there!
[17:20] <karni> lunch!
[17:21] <gatox> mmcc, but..... you are not convinced of using the logic the way it is now?
[17:21] <gatox> ralsina, mmcc if you can please, review: https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntuone-client/search-filter/+merge/130862 :D
[17:22] <gatox> mmcc, i added a description of why i'm fixing that, because i know you like that :D
[17:22] <ralsina> gatox: of course
[17:22] <gatox> ralsina, thx
[17:23] <ralsina> mmcc: in 99.99% of the cases I suspect there will be no difference between both cases
[17:23] <gatox> ralsina, this branch is specially important for darwin and win
[17:23] <gatox> ralsina, but it affects linux too
[17:23] <ralsina> gatox: ok, will be careful with it then
[17:23] <mmcc> gatox - I'll review that soon
[17:24] <gatox> mmcc, thx
[17:24] <gatox> no rush
[17:24] <gatox> i need to propose another branch for control panel to use this new implementation anyway
[17:25] <mmcc> so, the current qt sync menu logic rebuilds the menu on every update, and when I was testing the qt mac version I rewrote it to just update existing QActions (before I finally read through the qt code and discovered that that doesn't help)
[17:25] <mmcc> then I used that new logic in the mac code, which is similar to systray.py but different files
[17:27] <mmcc> but it doesnt' re-sort the array, because I wasn't sure what it was for, hence my asking now
[17:27] <mmcc> now I'm trying to test the qt sync menu on windows, and having other problems that mean I can't tell if I was having the same issues on windows as I saw on macos
[17:27] <mmcc> (ie, not showing anything in the transfers submenu)
[17:29] <mmcc> think I'm just going to hack the log file size in windows so I can test this thing
[17:30] <gatox> mmcc, but is not working with some changes that you did or trunk is not working? last time i check the menu was working properly on windows
[17:31] <mmcc> gatox - I don't know yet, I keep running into problems that don't let me check
[17:32] <gatox> mmcc, :S
[17:34] <gatox> mmcc, let me know if i can be of any assistance
[17:34] <mmcc> ok, thanks gatox…
[17:45] <dobey> oi
[17:46] <mmcc> ok, now I think I know what's going on - there are a TON of downloads going on , so my test upload is not making any progress, so nothing is showing up in the transfers menu because that only shows uploads
[17:46] <mmcc> that's a guess
[17:48] <gatox> mmcc, ahhhhhh that makes sense
[17:48] <gatox> been there
[17:48] <gatox> i think that is because of the way the event or action queue is processed
[17:58] <mmcc> yeah, we really need to show downloads in the transfers menu
[17:59] <gatox> mmcc, well..... now that we don't have the freeze anymore, we can talk with design
[17:59] <mmcc> I have stared at this code a ton, and it still confused me… I was sure it was an IPC bug or something making the status show up wrong
[18:01] <mmcc> gatox I already did - see bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-client/+bug/1067806 - I talked to lisette, and she agreed that showing both is best (but we need to iron out how to show which are uploads and which are downloads, if we can't put an icon next to the text
[18:01] <mmcc> (the mac version has a file icon next to the text, and she suggested showing instead an upload/download arrow icon, but I'm not sure how to make that work in qt)
[18:02] <gatox> mmcc, yap
[18:02] <gatox> mmcc, how to add icons to a menu item in qt?
[18:04] <mmcc> gatox, yeah - if we just use a regular menu item that might be different, but these are the qwidgetaction subclass ProgressBarAction from systray.py
[18:04] <mmcc> did the progress bar work on windows? it didn't work on macs because qt doesn't support qwidgetview, but I didn't try reading the code for windows
[18:05] <gatox> mmcc, qwidgetaction is inheriting from qaction, which allows you to set and icon
[18:05] <gatox> mmcc, yes, it works on windows
[18:05] <mmcc> ok, great
[18:18] <ralsina> Guys I will have to split the rest of my day and do some work at night because of house maintenance things.
[18:18] <ralsina> IOW: it's raining inside
[18:18] <mmcc> first step: is it also raining inside?
[18:18] <mmcc> (good luck)
[18:19] <mmcc> er, s/inside/outside/
[18:19] <mmcc> d'oh
[18:19] <ralsina> So, see you later tonight &/| tomorrow
[18:19] <ralsina> mmcc: it's raining inside & outside :-)
[18:19] <ralsina> luckily it's just the laundry room so I can consider it just nature giving me a hand ;-)
[18:21] <gatox> ralsina, bye!
[18:27] <gatox> this works like a charm :D
[18:28] <dobey> hmm
[18:28] <gatox> really dobey ! :P
[18:28] <karni> ralsina: Thanks for signing them off.
[18:29] <ralsina> karni: n/p you are officially in my claws now
[18:29] <ralsina> ahem, in my team
[18:30] <karni> ralsina: haha :)
[18:32] <dobey> the window fade effects are really annoying
[18:42] <dobey> anyone seen this before? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1298213/
[18:52] <mmcc> dobey, nope…
[18:52] <karni> dobey: You probably know better, but www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/10/how-to-speed-up-ubuntu-12-10-minimize-animation
[18:54] <dobey> karni: i don't think that's what i'm complaining about exactly (but maybe it is)
[18:54] <karni> Ok
[19:09] <dobey> blah
[19:09] <dobey> mmcc: that error is happening consistently for me when running ./run-tests in my branch now :(
[19:10] <dobey> but if i just run the test_reset_password tests, it always passes
[19:10] <dobey> grr
[19:11] <mmcc> dobey, it looks like test state leaking? it's counting the number of receivers of the focusChanged signal, which could accumulate if cleanup isn't done right, right?
[19:12] <mmcc> ok, time for lunch here, AKA, go test the DMV's scheduling
[19:14] <dobey> i guess
[19:22] <dobey> grr, bad enough i have to fix all these weird pyflakes errors
[19:23] <karni> "The sync process is rather slow." !@#$@#$ we need to rename the files app to "this-does-not-sync-sorry-Ubuntu-One-Files"
[19:24] <karni> Dude's downloading a file, and he's convinced he's syncing files. On a mobile connection, complaining its slow.
[19:24]  * karni sighs
[19:24] <dobey> heh
[19:25] <dobey> tell him to complain to his telco that it's slow
[19:25] <karni> +1
[19:26] <karni> " I am downloading (actually synchronising through Ubuntu One)." - no, you're *actually* downloading.
[19:27] <karni> In the end, I think we couldn't have avoided the "sync capability" assumption, unless we added in huge red font "this software does not (yet) sync your files."
[19:30] <gatox> :S i need to refactor a lotttttt of tests
[19:32] <dobey> so, like, anyone else using virtualbox on quantal?
[19:47] <elopio> facundobatista: hey.
[19:47] <elopio> facundobatista: did you get a decision about ignoring .lock files?
[19:47] <elopio> is it a wishlist or a won't fix?
[19:48] <facundobatista> elopio, didn't comet to a decision, I'm +0 to ignore them
[19:49] <dobey> well we already ignore                  \A\.~lock\..*#\Z
[19:49] <dobey> and .swp
[19:50] <elopio> dobey: is that new?
[19:50] <dobey> not sure why we shouldn't also ignore .lock
[19:50] <dobey> elopio: i don't think so
[19:51] <elopio> dobey: yes, it seem like the same.
[19:51] <elopio> there's a new bug #1042268.
[19:54] <dobey> right
[19:56] <dobey> doh, totally forgot i actually fixed this other bug on friday
[20:20] <Mitsurugi> hi!
[20:21] <karni> Mitsurugi: hi
[20:23] <Mitsurugi> it's normal the low speed for uploading files to the ubuntuone ?
[20:23] <dobey> can you expand on what you mean by "low speed" ?
[20:23] <dobey> how many files are you uploading, and in how many folders are they?
[20:24] <Mitsurugi> about 2000 files
[20:24] <dobey> what is the upload bandwidth of your connection to the internet?
[20:24] <dobey> what continent are you on?
[20:24] <Mitsurugi> europe / africa
[20:24] <Mitsurugi> hahaah
[20:24] <Mitsurugi> spain
[20:25] <Mitsurugi> my normal upload rate is about 80-100 kb/s
[20:25] <karni> Mitsurugi: And you're syncing/uploading those files from your computer, correct?
[20:25] <Mitsurugi> yes
[20:25] <Mitsurugi> ubuntu 12.04
[20:25] <Mitsurugi> there is another way
[20:25] <Mitsurugi> ?
[20:26] <karni> Yes, 2000 pics from your phone ;)
[20:26] <dobey> well, 80-100 kb/s is slow? is that bits or bytes?
[20:26] <karni> ~5.5 hours if you estimate each of your 2k files is 1 MB, with 100k*B*/s
[20:27] <Mitsurugi> my normal upload, not for ubuntu one
[20:27] <Mitsurugi> i uploaded 1,5Gb
[20:27] <Mitsurugi> in 36 hours
[20:27] <karni> uhh
[20:27] <Mitsurugi> more or less
[20:27] <Mitsurugi> xD
[20:27] <karni> ;)
[20:28] <karni> Mitsurugi: is it 80-100 kb/s or kB/s ?
[20:28] <karni> Your normal upload rate, as you've said.
[20:28] <dobey> and what is your upload rate to ubuntu one then, if the 80-100 is 'normal'?
[20:28] <Mitsurugi> bytes
[20:29] <Mitsurugi> is there a way to see the upload rate from ubuntu one?
[20:29] <Mitsurugi> u1sdtool shows it?
[20:30] <dobey> gnoem-system-monitor shows total current transfer rates
[20:30] <Mitsurugi> if i execute u1sdtool --current-transfers
[20:31] <Mitsurugi> shows uploads: 0 and downloads: 0
[20:31] <Mitsurugi> but the ubuntu one gtk says "sync files in progress"
[20:31] <karni> This is just count of files. You could use gnome-system-monitor > Resources tab
[20:31] <karni> Even better, you can check how fast it is sending data :)
[20:31] <Mitsurugi> 65 bites
[20:32] <Mitsurugi> 41 bites ...
[20:32] <dobey> what version of ubuntu are you on?
[20:32] <Mitsurugi> the maximum 161 btes ..
[20:32] <Mitsurugi> 12.04
[20:32] <Mitsurugi> total sent 1.7
[20:32] <Mitsurugi> 1.7Gb
[20:32] <Mitsurugi> count 200mb of navigating ... and ftp uploads
[20:32] <Mitsurugi> xD
[20:33] <Mitsurugi> something is not working  well, sure
[20:36] <Mitsurugi> i googled for same problems, all complaining about the download rate, not the upload
[20:37] <dobey> check your logs in ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/ to see if there are errors perhaps
[20:37] <Mitsurugi> thx dobey
[20:37] <dobey> if u1sdtool --current-transfers says 0, then you're not transferring anything :)
[20:39] <Mitsurugi> iep
[20:39] <Mitsurugi> bt the gtk, says sync in progres ...
[20:40] <Mitsurugi> State: QUEUE_MANAGER
[20:40] <Mitsurugi>     connection: With User With Network
[20:40] <Mitsurugi>     description: processing the commands pool
[20:40] <Mitsurugi>     is_connected: True
[20:40] <Mitsurugi>     is_error: False
[20:40] <Mitsurugi>     is_online: True
[20:40] <Mitsurugi>     queues: WORKING
[20:40] <Mitsurugi> no errors, queues working, but no transfers :S
[20:40] <dobey> what do you mean "the gtk" ?
[20:41] <dobey> the control panel? (which is qt, not gtk)
[20:41] <Mitsurugi> yeah, control panel
[20:41] <Mitsurugi> sorry, qt :P
[20:42] <dobey> it says in progress because the syncdaemon is working on queues. like i said, you should check the logs. it seems there's probably an error or few in the logs, that perhaps is preventing things from syncing
[20:42] <dobey> you could also try u1sdtool -q; wait a few seconds then run u1sdtool -c
[20:42] <dobey> that will quit the current running version, and reconnect
[20:42] <dobey> also, make sure you're running the latest update
[20:42] <dobey> which would be ubuntuone-client 3.0.2-0ubuntu1.1 iirc
[20:43] <Mitsurugi> which it is ..
[20:43] <Mitsurugi> ok
[20:43] <Mitsurugi> xDyeah
[20:43] <Mitsurugi> that's it
[20:45] <Mitsurugi> how can i read the log file?
[20:46] <Mitsurugi> arfs
[20:46] <Mitsurugi> i have it
[20:49] <Mitsurugi> lots of thx dobey
[20:49] <Mitsurugi> rebooting the  u1sdtool seems that works
[20:50] <Mitsurugi> but i can't find reasons on the log
[20:56] <dobey> ugh, this test, why is it failing?!
[20:56] <dobey> gatox: is this your code?
[20:57] <dobey> i guess not :)
[21:00] <gatox> dobey, sorry.... i was distracted
[21:01] <dobey> eh, this failing test is just annoying me, and i don't know how to fix it :(
[21:03] <gatox> ok.... eod here.... see you tomorrow people
[21:03] <dobey> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1298213/ this test
[21:04] <gatox> dobey, no idea.....
[21:05] <gatox> byee
[21:05] <dobey> :(
[21:05] <dobey> chau gatox
[21:05] <gatox> dobey, i can take a look at that ttomorrow if you want
[21:26]  * karni heads out to late dinner
[22:05] <dobey> later all. time to go :)


[00:09] <kubotu> ::workspace-bugs:: [975056] KWin shortcuts don't work on second monitor @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/975056 (by Zoffix Znet)
[07:57] <Riddell> hola
[08:47]  * Riddell uploads 4.8.90 to quantal
[10:05]  * Riddell starts on 4.8.90 backports to precise
[10:16] <jussi> cool!
[10:53] <Riddell> ScottK: shiny new packages for your review https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+queue
[11:20] <BluesKaj> hiyas all
[11:24] <debfx> Riddell: so much mail in my inbox :o
[11:25] <Riddell> debfx: love letters no doubt
[11:26] <debfx> not sure if ubuntu installer is capable of loving
[11:55] <ScottK> Riddell: Why is the -dev audiocd-kio-dev instead of libaudiocdplugins-dev in audiocd-kio?
[12:24] <Riddell> ScottK: hmm dunno, reject and I'll fix it
[13:26] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1012550] qtsql: no drivers loaded (incomplete library paths?) @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1012550 (by Jonas T.)
[13:53] <ScottK> Riddell: rejected.
[14:25] <ScottK> Riddell: Have a look at the license statement in cmake/FindFFmpeg.cmake in ffmpegthumbs.  I'm afraid that one gets rejected too.
[14:26] <ScottK> debfx: ^^^
[14:29] <ScottK> Same problem in juk as well.
[14:30] <debfx> also the binary name should be kde-thumbnailer-ffmpeg
[14:30] <ScottK> Can you fix both those things and re-upload?
[14:30] <ScottK> Rejecting juk now too.
[14:32] <ScottK> kmix actually has cmake/modules/COPYING-CMAKE-SCRIPTS so if you need an example to steal from, that's a good place.
[14:35] <ScottK> Sigh.
[14:35] <ScottK> kmix misses a copy of the GPL.
[14:35] <ScottK> It has LGPL and GFDL, but not GPL.
[14:38] <ScottK> debfx: kmix needs a copy of the GPL added and mention of the licensing of cmake/modules/FindCanberra.cmake in debian/copyright.
[14:39] <ScottK> yofel_: ^^^
[14:40] <debfx> I'm fixing ffmpegthumbs now
[14:42] <Riddell> hmm etherpad broken :(
[14:42] <BluesKaj> debfx, ffmpeg install on 12.10 has a lot of broken depoendencies , like so , http://paste.ubuntu.com/1040765/
[14:42]  * Riddell kdesdk WIP
[14:49] <ScottK> Sigh.  kscd too.  Needs cmake/modules/COPYING-CMAKE-SCRIPTS for cmake/FindMusicBrainz3.cmake and debian/copyright fixed.
[14:49] <ScottK> Riddell and debfx ^^^
[14:51] <Riddell> ack
[14:52] <ScottK> That's everything in queue.
[14:52] <Riddell> thanks
[14:52] <debfx> meaning you rejected everything? :(
[14:53] <debfx> definitely no love letters in my inbox now
[14:54] <debfx> oh
[14:54] <debfx> ScottK: please reject ffmpegthumbs again
[14:55] <ScottK> It's not there yet, but I will.
[14:56] <ScottK> debfx: Rejected.
[15:02] <debfx> working on kmix next
[15:03] <Riddell> kubuntu meeting in an hour?
[15:06] <Riddell> in here presumably since #u-m will be bust
[15:06] <Riddell> busy
[15:06] <Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
[15:18] <ybit2> heyo Riddell
[15:18] <ybit2> one of the biggest questions @ the southeast linuxfest was "where's ubuntu"
[15:18] <ybit2> outside of the KDE booth that is
[15:19] <Riddell> ybit2: mm?  I've no idea I'm afraid
[15:19] <Riddell> presumably the loco for the area didn't organise anything
[15:21] <ybit2> what's the meeting about?
[15:21] <ybit2> in 40 minutes
[15:22] <Riddell> kubuntu bits
[15:22] <Riddell> see agenda
[15:22] <Riddell> and anything else anyone wants to bring up
[15:25] <soee> hi
[15:26] <Riddell> hi ScottK
[15:26] <Riddell> hi soee
[15:26] <ScottK> Hello.
[15:26] <soee> guys anyone using the new Dolphin ?
[15:26] <soee> from 4.9.80
[15:26] <soee> *4.8.80
[15:27] <Riddell> yes
[15:28] <soee> Riddell, is it possible to change icons and text size in left section (Places)
[15:28] <soee> before it was automaticly done when resizing
[15:28] <Riddell> I've no idea
[15:28] <soee> ah ok
[15:29] <ScottK> kmix accepted.
[15:31] <ScottK> debfx: I thought you were changing the binary name in ffmpegthumbs?
[15:32] <debfx> ScottK: turns out the package already existed before 4.9
[15:32] <ScottK> OK.
[15:33] <ScottK> Looks good then.
[15:34] <ScottK> Accepted.
[15:35] <ScottK> juk accepted as well.
[15:37] <ScottK> Riddell: If Kubuntu is moving to Universe soon, we should hold off on the l10n upload so they don't get stripped.
[15:37] <Riddell> ScottK: I'm not touching l10n until universe is done
[15:38] <ScottK> Excellent.
[15:38] <ScottK> We should probably discuss not using LP translations anymore at the meeting.
[15:38] <ScottK> I don't expect it'll be controversial.
[15:38] <Riddell> there's a spec that covers that (at least in part) so it comes under the work item review
[15:40] <ScottK> Great.
[15:41] <Mamarok> soee: please file a bug on http://bugs.kde.org
[15:41] <debfx> kscd uploaded again. is there anything else missing (except audiocd-kio)?
[15:42] <ScottK> From the ones I rejected today, no.
[15:43] <Riddell> audiocd-kio is in ninjas
[15:44] <ScottK> Can you upload it to the archive?
[15:44] <ScottK> debfx: kscd accepted.  Thanks.
[15:44] <Riddell> ScottK: yep
[15:44] <ScottK> I'll review it then.
[15:45] <soee> uhm i like the new plasmoids scroller ;)
[15:54] <debfx> ScottK: bug #1013242 if you have some more time to exercise your archive admin powers
[15:54] <ScottK> Need to do some actual work for a bit ...
[16:00] <Riddell> apachelogger, Riddell, JontheEchidna, ScottK: council ping
[16:00] <Riddell> Kubuntu meeting!  who's all here?
[16:00] <apachelogger> ahoy ahoy
[16:01] <ScottK> pong.
[16:01] <SteveRiley> SteveRiley is alive.
[16:02] <Riddell> sabdfl no online, tsk
[16:02] <Riddell> let's start with membership
[16:02] <Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/SteveRiley
[16:02] <ulysses> o/
[16:03] <Riddell> SteveRiley: tell us a bit about yourself and why you want to be part of kubuntu?
[16:03] <SteveRiley> more than what's on the wiki page i suppose :)
[16:04] <SteveRiley> two things that i think i could bring, based on what clay has mentioned
[16:04]  * Mamarok is here
[16:04] <SteveRiley> at kfn, we'd like to see more cross-polination between irc, the list, and the forum
[16:04] <apachelogger> a summary would be a start, see, Riddell is lazy and only reads every other sentence missing half the stuff ^^
[16:04] <SteveRiley> so i could see myself encouraging more of that
[16:05] <SteveRiley> the other would be as an evangelist of sorts
[16:05] <Riddell> SteveRiley: what attracts you to kubuntu as a distro and community compared to any of the dozens of other options out there?
[16:05] <SteveRiley> kubuntu is marvelous work. but it has a somewhat low profile
[16:05] <SteveRiley> i've spent a fair amount of my career doing technical communications, and i could bring some of that experience to kubuntu
[16:06] <SteveRiley> Riddell: when i started learning linux, ubuntu was my choice... i distro-hopped, but kept coming back mostly out of familiarity
[16:06] <SteveRiley> but i never really liked the direction canonical was going with unity
[16:07] <SteveRiley> when i saw kde on another distro, i was drawn to everything about it -- flexibility, appearance, de integration
[16:07] <SteveRiley> so in early 2011 i finally decided it was time to settle on one distro and make it my primary work environment, thus kubuntu was the natural choice
[16:08] <SteveRiley> my background:
[16:08] <Riddell> SteveRiley: how functional is the kubuntu forums community?  are they friendly, do they solve people's problems, do they keep to date with changes in kubuntu?
[16:09] <SteveRiley> oh, ok... i'll answer that first
[16:09] <SteveRiley> kfn is unlike any other linux-related forum i've seen.
[16:09] <SteveRiley> the core group of active members have exhibit a high degree of mutual respect
[16:09] <SteveRiley> people go out of their way to research and solve problems
[16:10] <SteveRiley> i know i've spent hours sometimes doing that
[16:10] <Riddell> so your testimonial says, very impressive :)
[16:10] <SteveRiley> if you look at the number of posts in each release's section, you'll see that a lot of people do migrate, and keep up with the latest
[16:10] <SteveRiley> flame wars are very rare, we admins simply won't allow it. personal attacks are forbidden
[16:11] <SteveRiley> otherwise, we are very open and don't as a rule practice censorship
[16:11] <Riddell> SteveRiley: this might be controvertial but why use kubuntu forums rather than ubuntu forums?
[16:11] <SteveRiley> even our social/casual talk forum, where religion and politics frequently come up, people exchange ideas in a civil manner
[16:12] <SteveRiley> i don't have an answer to that question, as zach and the others created the forum long before i came along
[16:12] <SteveRiley> but i'll hazard a guess:
[16:12] <SteveRiley> ubuntu forum is BIIIIIIIIIIG.
[16:12] <SteveRiley> a number of our members have mentioned they find ubuntu forum intimidating
[16:12] <SteveRiley> we get quite a lot of windows exiles on kfn
[16:13] <Riddell> lovely, any other questions for SteveRiley?
[16:13] <SteveRiley> since we're smaller, and exhibit much more of a community feeling, they like what they see and they choose to stay
[16:13] <ScottK> Since you're a cloud person, what's your opinion on owncloud?
[16:13] <SteveRiley> riddell: re testimonies -- thanks.
[16:14] <SteveRiley> ah, owncloud
[16:14] <ScottK> I warned you.
[16:14] <SteveRiley> i looked at v3 briefly and foumd that it appeared to be a promising platform, but it had a number of basic bugs:
[16:14] <SteveRiley> php ui behaved unpredictably
[16:15] <SteveRiley> the sync clients mostly didn't work
[16:15] <SteveRiley> permissions issues abounded
[16:15] <SteveRiley> so when v4 came out, my observation was that's the version that will start taking off
[16:15] <SteveRiley> still a few glitches
[16:15] <ScottK> It would very nice if would could offer a complete FOSS solution for people who didn't want to use Google/Amazon/whatever.
[16:15] <SteveRiley> but now at 4.0.2, it's lookig very nice
[16:16] <ScottK> Riddell has packaged it, but I dare say we could use some help from a cloud oriented person making it tip top.
[16:16] <SteveRiley> being a pile of php and sql that sits on apache, you can install it anywhere
[16:16] <ScottK> Would you be able to help out with that?
[16:16] <SteveRiley> i run one on aws and one at home
[16:16] <Riddell> the current owncloud package is from debian, testing needed
[16:16] <SteveRiley> scottk: absolutely.
[16:16] <SteveRiley> i run both my ownclouds on a ubuntu server install
[16:16] <ScottK> SteveRiley: OK. Then you are now KFN person and aspiring developer.
[16:17] <SteveRiley> the biggest problem is that owncloud's documented installation procedure is wrong
[16:17] <SteveRiley> scottk: wow, thanks!
[16:17] <Riddell> well that's +1 from me for top contributions and community linking
[16:17] <ScottK> Do you use the packages or install the upstream tarball?
[16:17] <SteveRiley> i use the .deb
[16:17] <ScottK> +1 from me too.
[16:17] <ScottK> Excellent.
[16:17] <SteveRiley> thanks much, guys.
[16:18] <Riddell> apachelogger: vote?
[16:18]  * apachelogger fires up his coin flip app
[16:18] <SteveRiley> lol
[16:18] <apachelogger> the mighty app says yay +1
[16:18] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: ?
[16:18] <Riddell> SteveRiley: welcome into membership, please e-mail me your launchpad user so I remember to add you
[16:18] <apachelogger> (it litterally says that ... I think I might have written bogus code, it always comes up with +1)
[16:19] <Riddell> you'll get a shiny @kubuntu e-mail and can put your blog on planet
[16:19] <SteveRiley> very nice. been looking forward to opportunities to join.
[16:19] <Riddell> -Emerge support partner update
[16:20] <SteveRiley> thank you, all.
[16:20] <ScottK> SteveRiley: Hang around here and let's make the owncloud packages better.
[16:20] <ScottK> Also #ubuntu-server.
[16:20] <Riddell> as many of you know a nice non-profit company called Emerge want to be a support partner for kubuntu
[16:20] <SteveRiley> indeed. that sounds like a good first bit to tackle.
[16:20] <Riddell> with any profits going back to kubuntu
[16:20] <apachelogger> \o/
[16:20] <Riddell> (not to be published widely, they don't want it announced until it's sorted)
[16:21] <Riddell> this is currently blocked on canonical writing "yes you can use the trademark"
[16:21] <Riddell> shame sabdfl isn't here, but if anyone is in contact with canonical management do politely nudge them
[16:22] <Riddell> and if there's no comments on that it brings us onto the next topic
[16:22] <Riddell> Kubuntu Council constitution https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Council
[16:22] <Riddell> we need a constitution so we can open a bank account and so canonical can make an agreement which refers to the kubuntu council
[16:23] <cjwatson> typo "quotate"
[16:23] <Riddell> well spotted
[16:23] <cjwatson> and "If a quorate is not at the meeting" isn't really English
[16:23] <Riddell> apachelogger, ScottK: as existing council members have you had a chance to read through it?
[16:24] <ScottK> Yes.
[16:24] <ScottK> Not as well as cjwatson apparently.
[16:24] <Riddell> it just defines in bank-friendly language what we already did (agreed in maverick times)
[16:24] <agateau> hey
[16:25] <agateau> is anyone working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/995815 ? I'd like to give it a try if not.
[16:25] <apachelogger> Riddell: note that the entity KDE e.V. is not outlined in 1.
[16:25] <Riddell> it means we'll need a chair, treasurer and secretary which are pretty ceremonial roles except for the treasurer
[16:25] <apachelogger> agateau: meeting
[16:25] <agateau> apachelogger: oh right
[16:26] <Mamarok> Riddell: is this a call for volunteers?
[16:26] <ScottK> Riddell: Does it need something in there about how the constitution is revised?
[16:27] <Riddell> Mamarok: nope, that's the council vote which apachelogger already started
[16:27] <apachelogger> Riddell: that said ... I believe it should be mentioned that one member can only hold one of those positions
[16:27] <Mamarok> OK
[16:28] <Riddell> ScottK: yes I guess so
[16:28] <Riddell> wiki being slow so can't edit
[16:29] <Riddell> feel free to suggest something
[16:29] <Riddell> apachelogger: likewise
[16:30] <ScottK> How about "Revisions to the constitution must be pre-announced on the kubuntu-devel mailing list and approved by vote of the Kubuntu Council."?
[16:31]  * apachelogger would think that a revision ought to be carried by >3 members
[16:32] <Riddell> ScottK: added a bit about informing stakeholders "1. Revisions to the constitution must be pre-announced on the kubuntu-devel mailing list and informed the Ubuntu Community Council and other stakeholders and approved by vote of the Kubuntu Council."
[16:32] <ScottK> Sounds good.
[16:32] <Riddell> apachelogger: it's difficult to put a larger number, that leads to problems if people disappear
[16:32] <Riddell> which happens a lot in societies like this
[16:32]  * ScottK thought about a super-majority requirement and decided not.
[16:33] <ScottK> I think getting information out is the key.
[16:33] <apachelogger> well, a quorum is currently defined as 3/6, IMHO that ought to be 4/6
[16:33] <debfx> maybe we should have a process to replace inactive council members?
[16:33] <ScottK> Then we'd have to define inactive?
[16:34] <ScottK> I don't think it needs to be in the constitution.
[16:34] <apachelogger> +
[16:34] <apachelogger> if >2 go MIA something ought to be terribly wrong anyway
[16:35] <ScottK> I think quorum of 3 is good.
[16:35] <Riddell> "if any council members do not make contact with the other council members project for over three months they shall be considered inactive and a vote may be organise to replace them" ?
[16:37] <ScottK> It ought to be something like do not respond to contact attempts.
[16:38] <Riddell> "if any council members do not respond to contact attempts for over three months they shall be considered inactive and a vote may be organise to replace them" ?
[16:38] <ScottK> "if any council members do respond to contact attempts by other council members project for over three months they shall be considered inactive and a vote may be organized to replace them"
[16:38] <ScottK> Mine is spelled better, but either one.
[16:38] <Mamarok> do NOT respond you mean :)
[16:38] <ScottK> Yes.  I dod.
[16:39] <apachelogger> ScottK: if a revisoinal quorum is 4 members it would enforce that at least one of the businessy members have to attend
[16:39] <ScottK> do even.
[16:39] <littlegirl> I hope you don't mind, but I fixed the "quorate" grammatical errors on the https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Council page.
[16:39] <apachelogger> which would then save us having to outline the process to hold a meeting
[16:39] <ScottK> apachelogger: Getting three at a time is hard enough.
[16:39] <apachelogger> ScottK: how often do you plan on changing the constitution?
[16:40] <ScottK> apachelogger: Approximately never, but it'll be some dire circumstance and I don't want to make it overly hard.
[16:40] <apachelogger> I am fine with 3 attendees for regular votes, not for revisions of the constituation
[16:40] <ScottK> I guess.  Not my preference, but I can live with it.
[16:40] <Riddell> thanks littlegirl
[16:40] <littlegirl> Any time. (:
[16:41] <Riddell> apachelogger: 4 or all active members?
[16:41] <apachelogger> Riddell: 4
[16:41] <Riddell> apachelogger: "4 or all active members"?
[16:41] <Riddell> a simple number is liable to problems when nobody is active (been there, done that)
[16:42] <ScottK> Yep.
[16:42] <ScottK> The lesser of 4 or all active members
[16:42] <apachelogger> Riddell: yah
[16:42] <debfx> well we can replace inactive members now so adding "all active members" is imho not needed
[16:43] <apachelogger> if you need a somewhat immediate change ....
[16:43] <ScottK> Yes.  Elections take time.
[16:43] <Riddell> "The vote must include the lesser of 4 or all active members."
[16:44] <debfx> voting only takes 2 weeks
[16:44] <apachelogger> +3 months until someone can be considered inactive
[16:45] <Riddell> apachelogger: that's in the previous point (12)
[16:45] <apachelogger> yes, that was regarding the 2 weeks election time not being long
[16:45] <apachelogger> you have to take into acccount that before those 2 weeks could be 3 months of not being able to carry a revision
[16:46] <apachelogger> so being able to carry it after 3 months (at the worst) seems way more reasonable than 3.5 months
[16:47] <Riddell> any more comments?
[16:48] <apachelogger> KDEev defintion
[16:49] <Riddell> apachelogger: added
[16:50] <apachelogger> looks good to me
[16:50] <Riddell> shall we vote?
[16:51] <apachelogger> +1
[16:51] <Riddell> it gets a +1 from me for nicely defining what we do anyway
[16:51] <ScottK> +1
[16:51] <ScottK> Passed.
[16:51] <Riddell> lovely, thanks all
[16:51] <Riddell> any other business?
[16:51] <apachelogger> I hope everyone voted on new council members already :)
[16:51] <ScottK> I think we should wait until the current election concludes to select the various roles.
[16:52] <Riddell> apachelogger: closes on sunday?
[16:52] <Mamarok> apachelogger: for that I should actually get a mail to vote, still haven't got it
[16:52] <apachelogger> yes, sometime sunday when I get to close the vote (that is: when I get up :))
[16:53] <Riddell> Mamarok: hmm related to the e-mail problems you reported?
[16:53] <apachelogger> currently we have 29 of 49 votes casted, which has been like this for a day or two, so I suppose everyone who is interested already voted anyway :)
[16:53] <Mamarok> I guess so
[16:53] <apachelogger> Mamarok: oho
[16:53] <Riddell> apachelogger: are you able to add Mamarok manually?
[16:53] <apachelogger> aye
[16:53] <Mamarok> thanks :)
[16:53] <apachelogger> Mamarok<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:54] <Mamarok> yes
[16:54] <apachelogger> added
[16:54] <Mamarok> normally Launchpad should be fixed now, I hope it will not forward mails from @kubuntu.org to @ubuntu.com and vice-versa again
[16:54] <Riddell> oh
[16:55] <Riddell> spec review
[16:55] <Riddell> duh
[16:55] <Riddell> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-q?searchtext=kubuntu
[16:55] <Riddell> shall I go through them quickly?
[16:55] <Mamarok> yes, please
[16:56] <Riddell> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-q-images 1GB images, no separate dvd
[16:56] <ScottK> Alternates?
[16:56] <Riddell> ScottK: still undecided
[16:57] <Riddell> it'll need some additions to ubiquity I think to replace all the features, which is happening on the gtk side
[16:57] <ScottK> Not sure about dropping powerpc.  We had testers for precise.
[16:57] <apachelogger> isn't ppc a ports release anyway?
[16:58] <ScottK> Yes.
[16:58] <Riddell> I'd be all for dropping alternates but I guess people will complain if ubiquity doesn't replace all the features
[16:58] <ScottK> Spec says about dropping the images.
[16:58] <apachelogger> hm
[16:58] <ScottK> Riddell: Agreed.
[16:58] <debfx> sounds good, but I think we should still aim to keep the size small.
[16:58] <apachelogger> what would we get from dropping it?
[16:58] <debfx> so we don't fill up the 1GB just because we can
[16:58] <Riddell> apachelogger: one less hassle
[16:58] <apachelogger> Riddell: well, if we have testers...
[16:58] <ScottK> We tried to drop the alternate the cycle you were gone and got all kinds of hate due to lack of Ubiquity features.
[16:58] <Riddell> which is lots of little hassle when compiling packages
[16:59] <apachelogger> never noticed?
[16:59] <apachelogger> what's different for ppc?
[16:59] <apachelogger> I mean, other than the odd FTBFS
[16:59] <Riddell> it's slow mostly
[16:59] <ScottK> That's true if we make images or not.
[16:59] <SteveRiley> uh, well, i like the alternate installer because i prefer advanced-mode cli, but i'll admit i'm in a small minority there
[16:59] <Mamarok> I tend to only use that one
[17:00] <apachelogger> SteveRiley: one pretty much gets the same result with netinstall
[17:00] <Riddell> feel free to add back powerpc but I won't care about it :)
[17:00] <SteveRiley> apachelogger: true.
[17:00] <apachelogger> about ppc ... I don't see the harm in having it around as long as someone but us ensures it works :P
[17:00] <apachelogger> when/if that is not the case I am all for dropping it
[17:01] <SteveRiley> apachelogger: it involves more waiting for downloads, but i tend to forget that, what with my 60 mbps comcast connection :)
[17:01] <apachelogger> SteveRiley: actually for advanced install it will mostly be faster as one can install only the stuff one really wants ^^
[17:02] <Riddell> ok I removed the drop powerpc item, and add in "powerpc is very low priority"
[17:02] <apachelogger> Riddell: +
[17:02] <Riddell> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-q-active  plasma active 3
[17:02] <SteveRiley> apachelogger: hmm... then the one time i compared them i must have done something weird... can't remember what, now.
[17:02] <Mamarok> apachelogger: what with people not having the bandwidth?
[17:02] <Riddell> assigned to rbelem
[17:03] <ScottK> Riddell: I think (re powerpc) that's good.
[17:04] <Riddell> "script test sessions of Active with Xephyr and separate user" that's fiddly but rbelem seems to think he can do it
[17:04] <SteveRiley> for plasma active - this is another interest of mine, and i can offer up testing services using my samsung 700t
[17:04] <Riddell> "buy/obtain tablets and get to useful people to ensure testing" Darkwing got a couple of those already
[17:04] <apachelogger> Mamarok: downloading alternate or downloading netinstall+download on-the-fly requires the same bandwith
[17:04] <ScottK> Riddell: I think the Active spec needs to work item to look at the missing kde4libs patches to see if there's anything in there too insane for us.
[17:04] <Riddell> SteveRiley: excellent
[17:05] <ScottK> to work item/a work item
[17:05] <SteveRiley> looks like i'm going to have to learn this packaging stuff reall quick-like
[17:05] <Riddell> ScottK: "[kubuntu-dev] review kdelibs/base patches for potential technical issues: TODO" ?
[17:05] <ScottK> Riddell: Good.
[17:06] <Riddell> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-q-development  all in some sort of progress
[17:06] <Riddell> except for "add hooks to language kcm to list all language then install them when selected by user"
[17:06] <Riddell> which is to replace language selector which is going away (so are our language packs anyway)
[17:07] <rbelem> Riddell, related to arm images
[17:07] <ScottK> I think PyQt/PyKDE4 works with Ptyhon3 is done.
[17:07] <rbelem> Riddell, we still need omap3
[17:07] <Riddell> rbelem: why?
[17:08] <rbelem> Riddell, some tablets runs that
[17:08] <Riddell> rbelem: ones powerful enough to run plasma active?
[17:08] <rbelem> Riddell, i dont have the list on top of my head
[17:08] <Riddell> last cycle we didn't have anything to test them
[17:08] <rbelem> Riddell, yup
[17:08] <Riddell> except beagle boards which aren't powerful enough
[17:08] <debfx> Riddell: some packages (at least kde4libs) will stay in main. so I think we still need the language packs.
[17:09] <rbelem> Riddell, i will list them then i will ping you
[17:09] <Riddell> rbelem: the item is "drop omap(3) image unless someone finds a use" so if you find a use that covers the item
[17:09] <cjwatson> ScottK: works for me certainly
[17:09] <rbelem> Riddell, yup
[17:09] <cjwatson> ubiquity and update-manager are using it so it had better
[17:09] <Riddell> debfx: hmm, probably needs some thinking about
[17:10] <cjwatson> debfx: or maybe we should blacklist those from language pack stripping
[17:10] <cjwatson> that sounds kind of easier
[17:10] <ScottK> kde4libs won't have translations in it anyway.
[17:10] <Riddell> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-q-docs  has some items for Darkwing
[17:10] <cjwatson> ScottK: there'll be a few others
[17:11] <Riddell> littlegirl: but feel free to take over, don't let others prevent you from doing useful things in docs or elsewhere
[17:11] <Riddell> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-q-future  has items already under way
[17:12] <Riddell> new council elections, constitution, move to universe
[17:13] <Riddell> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-q-packaging  has lots of things needing packaged
[17:13] <Riddell> with debfx script for package reviewing the SC packaging is much nicer
[17:13] <littlegirl> Oh, sorry, I was still playing around with https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Council which looks much better now. (:
[17:13] <ScottK> q-future work items need a bit of updating on assignees, but look good otherwise.
[17:14] <Riddell> I noticed plasma media centre is getting into a useable state so that should be looked at too
[17:14] <littlegirl> Riddell: Thanks - I appreciate the vote of confidence. I've been learning DocBook inside and out so that I'm prepared to make changes to the documentation instead of floundering around in it. (:
[17:15]  * Mamarok goes to feed the cats before they eat the cables here
[17:15] <BluesKaj> Riddell, Qt 5 (with wayland backend) , now that looks real interesting ! :)
[17:15] <ScottK> Riddell: Constitution needs to move off the wiki to kubuntu.org.
[17:15] <Riddell> ScottK: will do
[17:16] <ScottK> Riddell: We don't need Qt5 for anything for Kubuntu.  Is that really our team's work item?
[17:16] <Riddell> ScottK: it's needed to support upstream kde (in my opinion)
[17:16] <Riddell> but much can be palmed off onto canonical and linaro
[17:16] <ScottK> OK.  Fair enough.
[17:16] <ScottK> Please do.
[17:17] <BluesKaj> antway , back to work
[17:17] <Riddell> if we just leave it up to canonical that means they might get into habits of adding random patches
[17:17] <ScottK> True.
[17:17] <ScottK> For a large value of might.
[17:18] <Riddell> any other comments or can we vote on them?
[17:18] <debfx> I just hope Qt 5 will be coordinated with Debian.
[17:19] <Riddell> debfx: by linaro I mean fabo who is debian
[17:19] <Riddell> but yes
[17:19] <Riddell> these work items are +1 from me (cos I wrote them mostly)
[17:20] <apachelogger> +1
[17:20] <littlegirl> I notice that the Precise documentation was located in the Kubuntu section here:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/kubuntu-docs while the Quantal documentation seems to be located in the Ubuntu section here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu - is that an oversight or intentional?
[17:21] <Riddell> littlegirl: the spec is at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-q-docs
[17:21] <Riddell> oh I see, it's under a different project
[17:21] <Riddell> that's not important
[17:22] <littlegirl> It would be nice to have it in the https://blueprints.launchpad.net/kubuntu-docs section for semantics' sake. (:
[17:22] <Riddell> ok I can look at that
[17:22] <Riddell> but not just now I need to go out
[17:22] <Riddell> ScottK: what say you?
[17:22] <ScottK> +1 on the specs as modified.
[17:22] <littlegirl> That sounds good. (:
[17:23]  * littlegirl is still sitting on 3 documents that never got pushed into Precise.
[17:24] <Riddell> littlegirl: hmm there's probably a group you can be added to so you don't get blocked like that
[17:24] <Riddell> thanks friends
[17:24]  * Riddell must run
[17:24] <littlegirl> Riddell: Okay, let me know in email. (:
[17:35] <ScottK> Specs approved.
[17:35] <ScottK> Riddell: Is there anything else?
[17:40] <Peace-> aloha
[17:57] <claydoh> SteveRiley yay!
[17:59]  * ScottK declares the meeting over.
[18:03] <claydoh> Sorry I missed it, large delivery today so a very late break for me
[18:04]  * yofel had a hell of  a day and fell asleep the moment he got home -.-
[18:04] <koolhead17> y0 yofel
[18:04] <ScottK> yofel: Then you're well rested.  You can get to work ...
[18:04] <yofel> lol :)
[18:05] <koolhead17> yofel, how is ur phone doing
[18:05] <koolhead17> Riddell, supp
[18:07] <yofel> my phone's fine... not sure what you mean
[18:08] <yofel> Riddell: another thing about alternate, rbelem wanted to keep it as it's used for offline upgrades for people with low bandwidth
[18:08] <yofel> *by people
[18:08] <yofel> SteveRiley: congrats :)
[18:09] <SteveRiley> yofel: thanks!
[18:09] <SteveRiley> feel like i have plenty to learn (launchpad intricacies, how do to builds, that kind of thing) ... looking forward to it
[18:23] <ScottK> yofel: I just noticed the kmix short description is the same as kmix-dev.  Please fix the -dev one.
[18:23] <ScottK> (for the next upload0
[18:23] <ScottK> )/)
[18:23] <ScottK> Meh.
[18:23] <ScottK> 0/)
[18:26] <CIA-45> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/kmix] Philip Muškovac * 9 * debian/ (changelog control) Fix the short description of kmix-dev so it says that it's a development package
[18:26] <yofel> fixed, thanks for spotting that
[18:28] <ScottK> Riddell (or anyone else with a minute): audiocd-kio is still missing cmake/COPYING-CMAKE-SCRIPTS and mention of the BSD license in debian/copyright.
[18:28] <ScottK> (see juk for a copy of the file to add)
[18:28] <ScottK> yofel: Can you fix ^^^
[18:30] <yofel> can do
[18:31] <ScottK> Thanks.
[19:02] <CIA-45> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/audiocd-kio] Philip Muškovac * 12 * debian/ (changelog copyright) Add missing copyright entry for cmake/FindCdparanoia.cmake
[20:13] <jussi> bugger, missed the meeting
[20:41] <JontheEchidna> me too, $work got in the way :(
[20:41] <JontheEchidna> agateau: bug 993672
[20:41] <JontheEchidna> that's the black rectangle
[20:48] <dantti_laptop> speaking of it, it should really be removed from kded, killing that dialog kills kded, no gui should be put in kded...
[20:57] <soee> are you planning to prepare kde 4.8.90 packages for 12.04 ?
[21:00] <yofel> yes
[21:07] <Riddell> hi
[21:10] <genii-around> Is there any cure yet for battery widget thinking there's no battery?
[21:11] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: ooh what's the work?
[21:11] <Riddell> jussi: doesn't finland have more important things to worry about today?
[21:53] <BluesKaj> BBL
[23:16] <ScottK> Riddell: Don't forget the release meeting mail ...  I"ll probably be offline most of tomorrow.


[01:05] <raevol> philipballew: the safety razor is amazing
[01:05] <raevol> not as manly as the straight razor, but way better/faster/easier shave
[01:05] <bkerensa> philipballew: so Mozilla is sending a huge team from around the world to man a booth :) do you think you can install Ubuntu on one of the laptops Mozilla IT is sending?
[01:16] <raevol> PHILIPBALLEW WHERE DID YOU GO
[01:16] <raevol> T_T
[03:01] <pleia2> akk: I was reading that thread out of car-crash fascination, so thank you for cheering me up with your message :)
[03:01] <akk> pleia2: I try to stay out of Rick wars, but I couldn't help myself this time. :)
[03:02] <akk> I was reading some of the great "I've looked it up and yes, charter schools really are public schools" posts
[03:02] <akk> and mentally composing private mail I was going to send to them, but it kept boiling down to "Thanks for injecting facts, I haven't posted publically because I'm too much a coward"
[03:02] <akk> so I posted. :)
[03:03] <pleia2> yeah, I don't have the energy for it right now
[03:03] <grantbow> akk: thank you, we need more voices of reason in such discussions
[03:04] <pleia2> oops, mt view coming up, time to get off zee train
[03:04] <grantbow> it is quite the car-crash
[03:04] <grantbow> cya
[03:04] <akk> I was also thinking of a friend who posts to alt.origins -- he told me once he knows he's never going to convince the intelligent design people to change their minds
[03:04] <akk> but he posts because of all the lurkers there, because reasoned arguments might change some of *their* minds
[03:05] <akk> so I thought, hey, maybe there are people on the fence now about whether to support Partimus, I could talk to them.
[16:46] <akk> How can I get /usr/share/dict/words? It's gone missing in pangolin -- it's a symlink pointing to /etc/dictionaries-common/words, and apt-file doesn't find any package that would install that.
[16:49] <akk> Ah, found it, wamerican (it's only available for american?) -- needed apt-file search words | grep dict | egrep '/words$ (though that also lists the useless symlink in dictionaries-common).


[02:05] <Burgundavia> tsmithe: pdf is possible, just a minor headache to produce
[02:06] <tsmithe> indeedy
[02:06] <tsmithe> it wasn't me that was asking however
[02:06] <Burgundavia> yep, saw that
[02:06] <Burgundavia> lotusleaf
[02:11] <tsmithe> oh ja
[02:14] <tonyyarusso> Speaking of pdf....
[02:15] <tonyyarusso> Any way to combine multiple one-page pdf files into one long pdf?
[02:15] <Burgundavia> yes, but I am not certain exactly how
[02:17] <tonyyarusso> Do you know with what tool, or something that may narrow my search?
[02:18] <tsmithe> copy/paste into openoffice?
[02:19] <tonyyarusso> hehe, might work, but oh so sad
[02:21] <MenZaLap> tsmithe: http://i.thefairest.info/funniest_thumbs/748xds.jpeg
[02:22] <MenZaLap> You have to see that.
[02:23] <Burgundavia> MenZaLap: midly rude
[02:34] <MenZaLap> It's humour :P
[02:34] <rjian> hello guyss...


[02:20] <mwhudson> are the nz archives reasonably up to date currently?
[03:12] <hads> morning
[03:14] <G> evening
[19:09] <ibeardslee> morning
[19:09] <ibeardslee> mwhudson: sorry, don't know
[21:34] <mwhudson> ibeardslee: yeah i just use archive.u.c
[21:34]  * ibeardslee uses ubuntu.catalyst.net.nz
[21:35] <ibeardslee> ^^ not an offical mirror
[22:41] <mwhudson> ibeardslee: hmm
[22:43] <mwhudson> 6MB/s, slightly faster than the a.u.c
[22:43] <mwhudson> :)


[00:09] <ddecator> anyone here with a decent amount of b.m.o experience?
[00:09] <BUGabundo> ehe
[00:09] <BUGabundo> try micahg
[00:09] <ddecator> i was going to, but he's not on, haha
[00:09] <ddecator> i can wait though
[00:14] <BUGabundo> just ask
[00:14] <BUGabundo> !ask
[00:15] <ddecator> well i'm looking at bug 534606 and i'm wondering if mozilla 171237 is close enough to link them. didn't find anything better
[00:16] <ddecator> the mozilla report is just about wanting extra lines of text after the find for convenience, while the lp report is about the find results being covered by a "toolbar" on the bottom of a website since the results are at the bottom
[00:17] <ddecator> they want the same thing, but for different reasons, so idk if upstream would consider that the same or if they would want separate reports
[00:20] <ddecator> that's why i was wondering if anyone here had enough experience with b.m.o to know what they would prefer upstream =)
[00:24] <ddecator> ...i guess i'll wait for micah, haha
[01:05] <micahg> asac: late night ping....
[05:03] <ddecator> btw micahg , i did the packaging wrong yesterday, so i went through and tried it again the right way...and just like you figured would happen, debuild can't create a .dsc
[05:04] <micahg> ddecator: patching should fail
[05:06] <ddecator> micahg: can't tell if that's what's happening or not: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/395458/
[05:08] <micahg> ddecator: you can't run that in your bzr checkout dir
[05:08] <micahg> ddecator: you need to test build locally and fix the patches first
[05:09] <ddecator> micahg: ohhhhh, ok. does fixing the patches take long?
[05:09] <micahg> ddecator: bzr bd --merge --build-dir=../build-area --orig-dir=../tarballs/ -e
[05:10] <ddecator> micahg: when and in where do i run that?
[05:10] <micahg> ddecator: that command merges changes in your debian bzr dir, takes a tarball from ../tarballs and prepares a build dir in ../build-area/ and stops
[05:11] <micahg> ddecator: then you go into the build-area dir and go into the songbird dir and then debuild -nc
[05:11] <ddecator> micahg: ok, i think i get it. let me try
[05:12] <ddecator> micahg: unknown command "bd"? am i missing another package?
[05:12] <micahg> ddecator: bzr-builddeb
[05:13] <ddecator> micahg: yup, ty
[05:40] <ddecator> micahg: after running 'debuild -nc' it ended with one patch failing
[05:50] <micahg> ddecator: k, I think I'm going to bed, so tomorrow night I can help you with quilt
[05:51] <ddecator> micahg: sounds good, night
[15:30] <micahg> asac: ping
[15:31] <micahg> bdrung: thanks for the upload, I wasn't aware of the two things you mentioned in the bug but will keep in mind for the future
[15:31] <bdrung> micahg: you're welcome
[15:32] <bdrung> micahg: i recommend to use lintian -IE --pedantic --color=auto
[15:33] <micahg> bdrung: k, I'll pay more attention to the lintian errors
[15:35] <micahg> chrisccoulson_: I have the fix for bug 518422, but I need asac 's approval the inclulde it
[15:41] <chrisccoulson_> micahg - cool. is that in addition to the change asac already did?
[15:42] <micahg> chrisccoulson_: it's an expanded version of what he did, it's from upstream, but hasn't been approved, hence I need asac's approval to land
[15:42] <chrisccoulson_> excellent, thanks!
[15:42] <micahg> chrisccoulson_: has he been available at all today?
[15:43] <chrisccoulson_> i haven't seen him about today
[18:22] <micahg> asac: ping
[18:51] <micahg> rickspencer3: PM?
[19:58] <rickspencer3> micahg, 'sup?
[19:58] <micahg> rickspencer3: wanted to talk about Beta 1
[19:59] <rickspencer3> sure
[19:59] <rickspencer3> go ahead
[19:59] <micahg> I'd prefer a PM if possible
[20:00] <rickspencer3> micahg, of course, no need to ask
[20:09] <micahg> mconnor: ping
[22:32] <micahg> chrisccoulson: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~micahg/ubufox/ubufox-0.9b1-ubuntu2/+merge/21409
[22:41] <chrisccoulson> excellent, i will look at that shortly
[22:43] <micahg> chrisccoulson: thanks, ping me if you need something else
[23:19] <micahg> chrisccoulson: seb128 merged my branch into the core-dev branch
[23:19] <chrisccoulson> micahg, yeah, i just asked him to do that :)
[23:19] <micahg> chrisccoulson: k, thanks
[23:19] <chrisccoulson> i can upload but i can't push to the branch
[23:19] <chrisccoulson> just about to upload it now
[23:20] <micahg> chrisccoulson: k, great
[23:21] <chrisccoulson> uploaded now :)
[23:22] <micahg> chrisccoulson: great, now I just hope they are approved :)
[23:22] <chrisccoulson> yeah, hopefully
[23:22] <micahg> chrisccoulson: thank you for your help
[23:22] <chrisccoulson> thank you for your help too :)
[23:23] <micahg> chrisccoulson: prism and fennec will have to wait until friday
[23:23] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that's no problem
[23:23] <micahg> chrisccoulson: so, how can I see who can upload what?
[23:24] <chrisccoulson> ah yes, first you need to grab the ubuntu-archive-tools (lp:ubuntu-archive-tools)
[23:24] <chrisccoulson> and in the source tree, there is a script called edit_acl.py
[23:25] <chrisccoulson> basically, you can run "edit_acl.py -s <source_package> query" to view the uploaders for a package
[23:26] <chrisccoulson> or "edit_acl.py -p <person> query" to view the priviliges for an individual
[23:27] <chrisccoulson> and to view the packages in a particulat package set, you can do "edit_acl.py -P <package_set> -S <series> query", eg, something like "edit_acl.py -P ubuntu-desktop -S lucid query"