[12:04] <mdke> desktopguide.pot -> accept
[12:04] <jordi> on desktopguide?
[12:04] <mdke> on xubuntu-docs
[12:04] <jordi> voil
[12:04] <mdke> yay
[12:05] <jordi> np!
[12:05] <jordi> wow my backlogs are massive
[12:05] <mdke> not bad service for midlight on a sunday
[12:05] <jordi> some don't reach where I was pinged
[12:05] <mdke> *night
[12:05] <jordi> hehe
[12:05] <jordi> yeah, need to go to bed, swimming in 7h
[12:05] <mdke> doesn't your client collect the pings?
[12:34] <mdke> spiv: awake?
[01:40] <Seveas> Is there a bigger version of the launchpad.png logo somewhere?
[02:03] <lifeless> jamesh: matsubara/launchpad/strip-white-space  - can you please review this today
[02:04] <lifeless> spiv: you have a new review
[02:12] <lifeless> spiv: heh, line drop
[02:12] <spiv> I noticed :)
[02:12] <lifeless> so yeah
[02:13] <lifeless> I have an all in one repository on ballent
[02:13] <lifeless> and the inventory index is 860K
[02:13] <lifeless> the knit is 90M
[02:14] <lifeless> sofor sftp the minimum cost is 2Mb download to understand the repository, and then a few kb to push the revision
[02:14] <lifeless> mpool: ^^^ this is why full reads of the index concern me :)
[02:19] <mpool> lifeless, agree
[02:20] <mpool> lifeless, i thought conversion to knits had been deferred to the 22nd?
[02:20] <mpool> in the last thing i read
[02:20] <lifeless> mpool: where ???
[02:20] <lifeless> kiko wrote me and asked about the possibility
[02:20] <lifeless> I replied
[02:21] <lifeless> meh.
[02:21] <lifeless> emr, no, kiko will be a better target
[02:21] <lifeless> kiko: ping
[02:32] <lifeless> spiv: meh, cant contact steve OR kiko
[02:33] <spiv> lifeless: So what's the plan?
[02:34] <lifeless> spiv: thinking we should abort
[02:35] <lifeless> which is extremly frustrating
[02:36] <spiv> Yeah.
[02:36] <spiv> Well, I'll get on with other stuff for the moment.
[02:37] <lifeless> ok
[03:30] <mpt> Goooooooooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[03:44] <mpt> lifeless, is the #launchpad topic out of date?
[03:47] <lifeless> yes
[03:47] <lifeless> https://launchpad.net/ | developer meeting: Thu 18 May, 1200UTC (wiki:MeetingAgenda) |<EMAIL_ADDRESS>(wiki:MailingLists) | Channel logs: http://tinyurl.com/72w39
[07:15] <jamesh> lifeless: ping
[08:35] <SteveA> morning
[08:35] <mpt_> Is chinstrap down or slow?
[08:35] <SteveA> not down
[08:35] <mpt_> Whenever I try to pull from it it times out
[08:35] <mpt_> hrmm
[08:35] <SteveA> quite loaded
[08:36] <mpt_> ok, ssh works
[08:36] <mpt_> I'll try again
[08:36] <SteveA> archyvsyn is doing a lot of stuff
[08:36] <SteveA> so, i'm guessing its IO is saturated
[08:44] <jamesh> lifeless: ping
[08:57] <cmvo> Hi! Can I close a bug in launchpad that I reported?
[08:59] <kgoetz> if the bugs fixed sure
[09:01] <cmvo> kgoetz: I should have asked: How can I close a bug? :-) I can't find the right option staring at the bug page.
[09:01] <kgoetz> cmvo: :) click on the name of the bug (next to where it says 'severity' and 'priority', and change it to 'rejected'
[09:01] <jamesh> cmvo: click on the product or package name in the table at the top of the bug page
[09:03] <cmvo> kgoetz, jamesh: Argh! Thats well hidden :-) I thought it would lead me back to the package page. Thanks!
 no worries cmvo :)
[09:04] <jamesh> hi ddaa
[09:04] <ddaa> hello jamesh
[09:05] <jamesh> ddaa: I was looking at a bit of the logic for recording the commit dates in bzrsync.py, and I think it is recording the wrong date for commits
[09:06] <ddaa> sounds annoying
[09:06] <jamesh> the revision timestamp is recorded as a UTC timestamp, but bzrsync.py offsets the timestamp by the timezone
[09:06] <jamesh> the revision's timezone, that is
[09:08] <ddaa> mh
[09:09] <ddaa> I have to admit that I do not quite understand datetime things
[09:09] <cmvo> kgoetz: How should I set the status? The bug is not relevant for the package, but I don't want to reassignt it to another package. I just want to close it.
[09:09] <jamesh> my understanding is that bzr is storing the date as a UTC timestamp plus a timezone offset
[09:09] <kgoetz> cmvo: set it to rejected if it's not a problem, or fix releaed if it's been fixed
[09:09] <jamesh> so when recording the data in the database we should probably be ignoring the timezone data
[09:10] <ddaa> mh... okay, so attaching the tz causes sqlobject to adjust the timestamp when storing in the db?
[09:10] <jamesh> the problem isn't really obvious in the Launchpad web UI because we just display a commit date
[09:10] <SteveA> ddaa: meeting on irc in 50 mins /
[09:10] <SteveA> ?
[09:11] <cmvo> kgoetz: Ok, thanks.
[09:11] <ddaa> SteveA: sure, I was about to prepare the agenda
[09:12] <ddaa> jamesh: do you think we should mention that issue in the meeting, or just opening up a bug for discussion would be enough?
[09:12] <SteveA> i think it is worth mentioning significant bugs
[09:13] <SteveA> but perhaps they don't require discussion
[09:13] <jamesh> ddaa: either way.  The fix would be to remove two lines of code (and add tests)
[09:15] <ddaa> jamesh: ah, I see...
[09:15] <ddaa> jamesh: as SteveA said
[09:18] <jamesh> two fingers?
[09:19] <SteveA> yeah, tappiing one finger, then tapping another elsewhere while releasing the first
[09:20] <SteveA> it takes some practice to be useful, because the direction is relative not an absolute position on the screen
[09:20] <jamesh> it probably looks like very fast acceleration from first finger point to the other
[09:20] <ddaa> *wow this finger just teleported*
[09:21] <ddaa> maybe write a flatland remake, world as seen from a touchpad
[09:21] <uws> scrolling can be done on a touchpad too: "scroll" your finger at the right side of the pad :)
[09:23] <jamesh> uws: tapping the bottom right corner looks like a right-click too
[09:23] <uws> not for me
[09:23] <uws> I can tap with 2 fingers for a middle mouse click
[09:24] <uws> and tap with 3 fingers to right click
[09:24] <uws> paste paste paste paste paste paste paste
[09:24] <uws> jamesh: my bottom right corner is rounded (ibm thinkpad)
[09:26] <jamesh> uws: my new laptop doesn't have a touchpad :(  None of these gestures work very well with the little joystick thingee
[09:33] <uws> jamesh: ibm thinkpads have both (and I connect my logitech trackman wheel using USB :)
[09:34] <jamesh> uws: not on the X series
[09:39] <uws> jamesh: ah, mine is from the r series.    gsynaptics is pretty cool btw. capplet for the touchpad...
[09:40] <jamesh> uws: I bought an external mouse in case I can't get used to it
[09:40] <jamesh> uws: but it works pretty well
[09:41] <uws> I've not used a normal mouse for daily work for 4 years now... my trackball is my best friend
[09:45] <carlos> morning
[09:51] <ddaa> SteveA: jamesh: spiv: mpool: lifeless: meeting in 10 mins in #launchpad-meeting
[09:51] <ddaa> answere nature calls and workraves now
[09:59] <ddaa> spiv: ping!
[09:59] <spiv> ddaa: Still 1759 here :P
[10:00] <ddaa> spiv: you are now officially late :)
[10:00] <ddaa> -> #launchpad-meeting
[10:00] <spiv> ddaa: I'm there :P
[10:09] <sivang> morning all
[11:39] <mdke> carlos: you know all the new templates with empty translations that appeared recently? are they getting translations merged, or should the translation teams start working overtime on them?
[11:41] <carlos> mdke: usually, that means that there isn't translations at all
[11:42] <carlos> mdke: we fixed the bug that hide resources to translate if you don't have any translation yet
[11:42] <mdke> carlos: we've had quite a few emails to the various lists about it, an example is https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/rosetta-users/2006-May/001511.html
[11:42] <mdke> oh right
[11:43] <mdke> so there is a lot of translating to do :)
[11:43] <carlos> I guess ;-)
[11:44] <carlos> mdke: mark developed already a way to show resources priorities
[11:44] <mdke> man, everything is done at the last minute with Ubuntu :/
[11:44] <carlos> I guess we will land that soon
[11:45] <mdke> I'll answer some of the email s
[11:46] <carlos> jordi: ?
[11:46] <carlos> jordi: are you handling those emails?
[11:47] <mdke> it doesn't matter, I'm happy to send a couple
[11:48] <carlos> mdke: yeah, you are doing a really good work helping on the mailing list. Thank you very much
[11:49] <mdke> np at all
[11:54] <Yannig> Hello everybody :)
[11:54] <Yannig> May I ask a dumb question? :)
[11:54] <jordi> carlos: rosetta-users? yes, in general. I might have a few pending from last week tho
[11:55] <jordi> Yannig: go ahead!
[11:55] <carlos> jordi: and ubuntu-translators
[11:55] <Yannig> I'm beginning to translate Ubunto into Occitan and I don't really know if I'm doing it well: Occitan is not in https://launchpad.net/rosetta/groups/ubuntu-translators/
[11:56] <jordi> -translators I'm lagging a lot behind, yup :/
[11:56] <carlos> Yannig: you don't need to have a translation team to translate in Ubuntu
[11:56] <jordi> Yannig: you are doing correctly for now.
[11:56] <jordi> But it's best to have a team so you can control who can and who can't translate.
[11:56] <Yannig> (and I don't find everything that has to be translated in https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+lang/oc/)
[11:57] <carlos> Yannig: you should find it now
[11:57] <Yannig> Sorry for last message: it does work now, Launchpad may have waited for a certain number of translations to be done
[11:57] <carlos> we fixed that last week
[11:57] <Yannig> Thanks :)
[11:58] <carlos> Yannig: wow, you have a bunch of things to do... ;-)
[11:59] <carlos> Yannig: I think you should start with https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/debian-installer/+pots/debian-installer/oc/+translate
[11:59] <Yannig> How can I create a team that will be included into Gnome translators or Ubuntu translators?
[11:59] <carlos> is the most important part that you will not be able to update later. I think the timeline to translate the installer is really soon
[12:00] <Yannig> Fair enough, I'll work on it this afternoon
[12:02] <mdke> carlos: this thursday is the freeze
[12:02] <carlos> Yannig: next thursday is the timeline...
[12:02] <carlos> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
[12:03] <carlos> yeah
[12:03] <carlos> I just found it
[12:03] <Yannig> Hum, not much time :p
[12:05] <Yannig> So, do I have to create a team for Occitan translations that will be included into Gnome translators or Ubuntu translators? If so, how can I do please? :)
[12:17] <carlos> Yannig: create an Ubuntu team
[12:17] <carlos> Yannig: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RosettaFAQ#head-b356f13978780b88ed4844602554339ac2c33774
[12:17] <carlos> you have there the procedure
[12:20] <carlos> erdalronahi_: hi
[12:21] <erdalronahi_> hi carlos
[12:21] <carlos> dude, sorry, I was so busy last week that forgot your bug...
[12:21] <carlos> erdalronahi_: do you have time to take a look to it today?
[12:22] <erdalronahi_> well, maybe in the evening
[12:22] <carlos> ok
[12:22] <carlos> erdalronahi_: please, ping me
[12:22] <erdalronahi_> but the situation is quite clear,
[12:22] <erdalronahi_> as i have stated in my mail
[12:22] <erdalronahi_> if you want to, you can even delete everything,
[12:22] <erdalronahi_> and re-import everything from Breezy
[12:23] <carlos> erdalronahi_: what do you mean by 'lost'?
[12:23] <carlos> completely removed
[12:23] <carlos> or do they appear as suggestions?
[12:23] <erdalronahi_> there is nothing lost completely
[12:24] <erdalronahi_> everything has moved to suggestions
[12:24] <erdalronahi_> but to copy some thousand translations from the suggestions
[12:24] <erdalronahi_> is an awful lot of work
[12:25] <carlos> erdalronahi_: I could work out something to select them again, but you should take into account what I said about the fuzzy flag
[12:26] <erdalronahi_> what did you say about the flag?
[12:26] <carlos> I could either activate them directly and you check it later or activate them and set the needs review flag so you need to accept every entry later (just disabling the Needs review flat) (when I said fuzzy, please, read Needs review)
[12:26] <carlos> erdalronahi_: I don't have a way to know if the needs review flag was set or not when you added a new translation
[12:26] <erdalronahi_> activate them all
[12:27] <carlos> so if I automatically activate a translation and had the needs review flag set, it will lack it
[12:27] <erdalronahi_> We will go through them, but it's better to have activated translations
[12:27] <erdalronahi_> Activate them all,
[12:27] <erdalronahi_> I will set the flag again if necessary
[12:28] <erdalronahi_> o select the best from the suggestions
[12:29] <carlos> ok
[12:29] <carlos> I will work out the needed SQL commands to do it
[12:30] <carlos> erdalronahi_: if there are more than one suggestion, I'm going to activate the newer one
[12:30] <erdalronahi_> that's the best
[12:30] <erdalronahi_> didn't know the time is also saved
[12:31] <carlos> yeah, we have many metadata stored that is not yet exposed in our UI
[12:33] <erdalronahi> good to have it :)
[12:33] <erdalronahi> hope it will work like a wiki in the future,
[12:33] <erdalronahi> where you can see who did what and when
[12:34] <erdalronahi> carlos, I have to leave
[12:35] <erdalronahi> do you need something from me?
[12:35] <carlos> not sure if we will reach that level of details, but we will be near
[12:35] <carlos> erdalronahi: no, thank you, I will do my changes on the staging server and send you an email to check that all is ok
[12:35] <carlos> and will apply that to production
[12:35] <erdalronahi> ok
[12:35] <erdalronahi> great
[12:36] <erdalronahi> will there be an opportunity to complete more of the translation
[12:36] <erdalronahi> before the new locale-pack is built?
[12:37] <carlos> erdalronahi: openoffice translation follows the language pack timelines
[12:37] <erdalronahi> well, language packs re being built daily now :)
[12:37] <erdalronahi> openoffice translations are not
[12:38] <carlos> right, is not so easy
[12:38] <carlos> but what I mean is that we should get at least an update every month
[12:38] <carlos> after release
[12:38] <erdalronahi> We couldn't add much now, because it was so hard to find the missing translations
[12:38] <erdalronahi> Well, that's what you said for Breezy, too :)
[12:38] <erdalronahi> I know it's hard,
[12:39] <erdalronahi> I am seeing all the trouble you (and us) have
[12:39] <erdalronahi> But in the and it all works out
[12:40] <carlos> erdalronahi: right, I said that, but this time is true ;-)
[12:41] <carlos> we have full language packs imported in Rosetta now
[12:41] <Yannig> Thanks carlos for the information :)
[12:41] <carlos> we hadn't for breezy
[12:41] <carlos> Yannig: you are welcome
[12:43] <erdalronahi> Yes, that is very good, to see what is ahead
[12:51] <aa_> hi, I'm wondering if the ability to put preformatted text into bug comments has been discussed or added
[01:00] <carlos> Yannig: you need to create the ubuntu-l10n-oc team to add it to the ubuntu translators team
[01:01] <spiv> lifeless: ping?
[01:03] <spiv> lifeless: SteveA: BjornT: kiko: jamesh: review meeting?
[01:04] <jamesh> spiv: I guess lifeless is still unavailable today
[01:04] <spiv> jamesh: Seems so.
[01:04] <Yannig> carlos> Done :)
[01:06] <spiv> jamesh: A merge of rocketfuel into an oldish branch I don't have locally.  I fear it's reweaving or something.
[01:06] <jamesh> spiv: okay.  That'll probably take ~ 10 hours
[01:07] <carlos> jamesh: 10 hours to get the merge done???
[01:07] <jamesh> carlos: if it is an old branch and is currently reweaving
[01:08] <jamesh> may be faster in the other direction
[01:08] <spiv> jamesh: Yeah, I was hoping it'd finish over dinner, but it seems unlikely now, so I'll abort it.
[01:08] <jamesh> branch rocketfuel ; pull --overwrite mybranch ; merge rocketfuel
[01:09] <spiv> Yeah.  Or even just reapply the diff of the changes, it doesn't have a complex merge history w.r.t. rocketfuel.
[01:11] <jamesh> so, who wants to chair the meeting?
[01:14] <BjornT> oh, forgot about the meeting. i'm here now.
[01:14] <spiv> Well, that makes three of us here...
[01:15] <jamesh> should we start?
[01:16] <spiv> jamesh: I guess that means you're chairing ;)
[01:16] <jamesh>     *
[01:16] <jamesh>       Roll call
[01:16] <jamesh>     *
[01:16] <jamesh>       Agenda
[01:16] <jamesh>     *
[01:16] <jamesh>       Next meeting
[01:16] <jamesh>     *
[01:16] <jamesh>       Queue status.
[01:16] <jamesh>     *
[01:16] <jamesh>       properties should not be expensive. SteveAlexander
[01:16] <jamesh>     *
[01:16] <jamesh>       ensuring "[trivial] " merges are really trivial -- perhaps random post-merge reviews? diffstat in commits mails? something else? AndrewBennetts
[01:16] <jamesh> bah
[01:16] <jamesh> okay, that's the agenda
[01:17] <jamesh> next meeting: same time next week?
[01:17] <BjornT> sounds good
[01:17] <spiv> Fine by me.
[01:18] <jamesh> queue status.
[01:18] <jamesh> there is nothing on the general queue to be allocated.  Does anyone have branches that need to be reallocated?
[01:18] <BjornT> not me
[01:18] <spiv> I'm fine.
[01:20] <jamesh> So lifeless brought up the issue of ancient branches sitting in needs-reply or merge-conditional/merge-approved state
[01:20] <jamesh> There were responses about most of the really old ones, iirc
[01:20] <jamesh> so that's probably fine.
[01:21] <jamesh> SteveA: are you around to describe "properties should not be expensive"?
[01:23] <jamesh> The basic gist was that property access looks cheap in Python code, so properties that are expensive to calculate are waiting to be misused possibly leading to timeouts
[01:24] <jamesh> e.g. a property that performs a bunch of big queries each time it is accessed might be better to implement as a method rather than a property
[01:24] <spiv> This is mentioned in PEP 8 now.
[01:24] <spiv> So in theory this is already part of our review policy ;)
[01:25] <jamesh> so if you see properties like this during review, it is worth asking questions about it
[01:26] <jamesh> Last item on the agenda is spiv's.  Do you want to elaborate?
[01:26] <spiv> For whatever reason, I think people sometimes submit merges with [trivial]  that are more than a two-line change here or there.
[01:27] <spiv> And so there's some significant changes that aren't getting reviewed.
[01:27] <spiv> I've been thinking that including something like the diffstat of the merge in the commit emails would make it obvious which "trivial" changes are actually touching 70 lines across 5 files.
[01:28] <spiv> So I propose that someone updates PQM to do this, or perhaps suggests another alternative.
[01:28] <spiv> Or just convinces me that it's not a significant problem :)
[01:29] <jamesh> I could imagine a 70 line trivial change where the change is trivial but it adds a test to make sure that the problem doesn't regress ...
[01:29] <jamesh> but I get your point
[01:29] <spiv> Right.
[01:29] <spiv> It's entirely possible for a trivial change to be lengthy.
[01:30] <spiv> But it doesn't hurt to have it flagged as a good idea for a post-commit review.
[01:30] <jamesh> Getting diffstat output in the commit emails is probably something that only lifeless can do
[01:30] <spiv> And post-commit reviews are easy to generate diffs for: "bzr diff -r 999..998"
[01:31] <BjornT> we could also try to push people to ask a reviewer to review it before submitting it for merge. if it's truely trivial, it shouldn't take a reviewer more than a few minutes to review.
[01:31] <spiv> I've mentioned it verbally to lifeless in the past, and his opinion was "patches to pqm welcome"
[01:33] <cprov> good morning
[01:33] <jamesh> one possibility would be a script that emails launchpad-reviews with a summary of [trivial]  commits
[01:33] <jamesh> I wonder how much spam that would produce?
[01:33] <spiv> jamesh: Probably not too much.  I like that idea.
[01:34] <BjornT> i think that sounds like a good idea. ideally it shouldn't produce much spam.
[01:35] <jamesh> batching it once per day would limit the impact.
[01:35] <BjornT> it probably be good to include the diff in the email as well, since it shouldn't be that big, and it would make it easy to do a post-review.
[01:35] <spiv> jamesh, BjornT: once per day, with diffs, sounds ideal to me.
[01:36] <carlos> kiko: around?
[01:36] <jamesh> I guess I can look at writing a script after I've got the sprint scheduler stuff out of the way
[01:36] <BjornT> i'm not sure batching is necessary, currently there are just a few trivial commits per day.
[01:37] <jamesh> Is there anything else anyone wants to bring up?
[01:38] <BjornT> no, can't think of anything else
[01:38] <spiv> Not from me.
[01:38] <SteveA> jamesh: hello
[01:38] <jamesh> hi SteveA
[01:38] <SteveA> was there a reviewers' meeting?
[01:39] <jamesh> SteveA: yeah.  I was just about to close it.  Do you want to bring anything up?
[01:40] <SteveA> i just skimmed the scrollback
[01:40] <SteveA> i'd like us to spend sometime improving our pqm-process tools and scripts
[01:40] <SteveA> but not just this week
[01:40] <lifeless> hi
[01:41] <lifeless> review meeting in 20 minutes
[01:41] <SteveA> do we have a launchpad-project product for describing our code-commit process?
[01:41] <spiv> lifeless: Er...
[01:41] <spiv> lifeless: In minus 40, I think :)
[01:41] <lifeless> perhaps
[01:41] <SteveA> if we have such a product, then we can add specs and bugs for that
[01:41] <lifeless> 1100 GMT ?
[01:41] <jamesh> lifeless: it is 11:41 GMT right now
[01:41] <SteveA> including a spec about exactly how we want pqm to be sending emails to the lists, so that it is more useful
[01:42] <lifeless> indeed
[01:42] <jamesh> SteveA: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-development-infrastructure probably covers such tools
[01:42] <lifeless> my bad, I'm very sorry I wasn't here, I thought it was an hour later
[01:42] <SteveA> jamesh: cool.  let's get a braindump spec in there for notifications from pqm
[01:43] <spiv> lifeless: It happens.  Anything you want to add to the scrollback?
[01:43] <lifeless> yes
[01:43] <lifeless> the email commit plugin is the thing to teach diffstat to
[01:43] <SteveA> where we can write about the need for diffstats in pqm emails, and maybe batching trivial change notifications with stats/diffs
[01:43] <lifeless> pqm uses that vanilla
[01:43] <lifeless> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-development-infrastructure is the product to file bugs on
[01:43] <SteveA> i'm proposing a spec for how we ideally want things to work
[01:44] <SteveA> then we can have bugs / branches for developing in that direction incrementally
[01:44] <lifeless> SteveA: great. specs on that product to I think
[01:44] <SteveA> i'd prefer this to just knocking off features that are easy as we think of them, although we can do that as well of course
[01:44] <SteveA> who will braindump that spec?
[01:45] <lifeless> well
[01:45] <lifeless> I'd like an informational spec
[01:46] <lifeless> that describes the overarching goal. I think you and I should do that Steve.
[01:46] <SteveA> i think there was some interesting discussion earlier in this meeting
[01:46] <lifeless> then things that take us towards that should have braindumps or better, which can be worked on with bugs and branches
[01:46] <SteveA> (which i missed)
[01:47] <SteveA> i know... jamesh: i propose we have a skype call tomorrow morning
[01:47] <jamesh> okay
[01:47] <SteveA> where we can discuss your ideas for this.  i'll write up some notes for that
[01:47] <SteveA> um, from that
[01:47] <SteveA> and that can form the basis of the spec
[01:47] <jamesh> I'll include all the discussion in the meeting minutes
[01:48] <lifeless> SteveA: perhaps we are talking at cross purposes. I am saying that we do not have a 'Spec' that covers the entire review process end to end *with* assistance for automation
[01:48] <SteveA> then i can talk with lifeless, spiv, bjorn and others
[01:48] <jamesh> (I mean discussion of this meeting in the minutes)
[01:48] <lifeless> SteveA: if you are talking about the finer grained stuff, I'm entirely happy with what you proposed.
[01:49] <SteveA> lifeless: getting too abstract for me.  let's have this discussion when there is something written down.
[01:49] <SteveA> that way, it becomes concrete, as "I propose this be several specs" or "we need a spec that includes this, and also these other things"
[01:50] <SteveA> mpt: around?
[01:50] <lifeless> SteveA: ok. lets do that. You'll discuss with jamesh and braindump ?
[01:50] <SteveA> yeah
[01:50] <SteveA> i'll write that in my diary for tomorrow
[01:51] <lifeless> SteveA: then wednesday morning we can talk ?
[01:51] <lifeless> jamesh: spiv: btw email plugin is at http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/baz2.0/plugins/email/
[01:51] <spiv> lifeless: Thanks.
[01:51] <lifeless> jamesh: thank you for doing adhoc chairing, I really appreciate it
[01:52] <jamesh> lifeless: no problem.
[01:52] <jamesh> if there isn't anything else, I think that's the end of the meeting
[01:52] <spiv> jamesh: countdown? :)
[01:52] <jamesh> 10
[01:52] <jamesh> 9
[01:52] <jamesh> 8
[01:52] <jamesh> 7
[01:52] <jamesh> 6
[01:52] <jamesh> 5
[01:52] <jamesh> 4
[01:52] <jamesh> 3
[01:52] <jamesh> 2
[01:52] <jamesh> 1
[01:53] <jamesh> end.
[01:53] <spiv> :)
[01:53] <lifeless> boom-tish
[01:53] <spiv> jamesh: thanks for chairing.
[01:53] <SteveA> thanks james
[02:01] <lifeless> SteveA: the knit upgrade did not happen, kiko asked for a delay on saturday, I replied but had no response from either of you before monday, tried to ring you both (I thought it would be -just- acceptable timewise), but no joy
[02:01] <lifeless> SteveA: I hope I did not wake you
[02:01] <SteveA> i didn't receive a call
[02:02] <SteveA> kiko had some concerns about it having a bad effect on the new shipit rollout.  i wanted to talk with him on the phone about it, but we didn't manage to.
[02:03] <lifeless> sure.
[02:03] <lifeless> Its no skin off my nose - PQM is slow and will remain so until the conversion is done.
[02:03] <lifeless> My personal suspicion is that PQM's slowness is much more of a burden than a knit conversion ;)
[02:03] <SteveA> one thing i did want to ask you
[02:03] <lifeless> shoot
[02:04] <SteveA> if something unexpectedly goes wrong with the conversion, and we find out on the first or second PQM merge into it
[02:04] <SteveA> what are the options to proceed?
[02:04] <uws> rm -fr .bzr/; mv .bzr.backup .bzr   ;)
[02:04] <lifeless> 1) restore the master branch
[02:04] <lifeless> (from local copy, not tape)
[02:05] <lifeless> 2) debug and fix in place
[02:05] <lifeless> those are the options
[02:05] <lifeless> we know PQM runs knits ok - several branches are already in knit form - bzr, cscvs, dists.
[02:05] <SteveA> restoring the master branch puts us back in the position just before the switch to knits?
[02:05] <lifeless> yes
[02:05] <SteveA> that's what i guessed
[02:06] <SteveA> i don't see an issue
[02:06] <lifeless> we would want to send in a patch before every developer converts as well
[02:06] <SteveA> however, kiko is managing the shipit rollout
[02:06] <lifeless> but thats part of the 'convert the center' step before everyone else converts anyway.
[02:06] <SteveA> lifeless: does the conversion need to happen on a monday?
[02:07] <lifeless> no, just a convenient day when PQM tends to have nothing in the queue at 1000 AEST
[02:07] <lifeless> right now there are 15 hours of requests queued
[02:07] <SteveA> lifeless: ok.  please be prepared to do it sometime this week.  i'll talk to kiko later.
[02:08] <lifeless> I can of course exercise the 'kill current request' interlock and boot stuff out of the queue
[02:08] <SteveA> i think kiko is right to be conservative about the shipit rollout
[02:08] <lifeless> I'm happy to do it any day this week
[02:08] <SteveA> but i don't believe he understands the process or risks well
[02:08] <SteveA> for the conversion to knits
[02:08] <lifeless> I have a draft itinery
[02:09] <SteveA> i wish i did not always misread "draft" as "daft"
[02:09] <lifeless> how does arrive 24th 2155, leave 30th 1535 sound to you ?
[02:09] <lifeless> thats mon-thursday full days, and a half friday.
[02:09] <SteveA> ah, you're talking about vilnius, not knits
[02:10] <jamesh> lifeless: I suppose I should be updating the pending-reviews script to use a knits repo when this change goes through.  Is there any value in doing so before the conversion, or should it be done at the same time?
[02:10] <lifeless> jamesh: do so now :)
[02:10] <lifeless> jamesh: your repo is a sink, so theres no downside, and it will make merges much faster
[02:10] <jamesh> lifeless: I suppose it'd make sense to prime the repository off your rocketfuel knits conversion too
[02:11] <lifeless> jamesh: yes, home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel.knits
[02:11] <SteveA> lifeless: fine.  my only concern is that i won't have time to work on quality and launchpad for 4 full days.  i imagine we'd have two decent days to talk through this stuff.
[02:12] <lifeless> SteveA: ok. Could we structure it as 4 half days ?
[02:12] <SteveA> europython is 3 july to 5 july also
[02:13] <SteveA> lifeless: sure, we can do that
[02:13] <SteveA> if you prefer to get back earlier, then we can do two solid days instead
[02:13] <lifeless> booking earlier is harder :)
[02:14] <lifeless> there is congestion on the lon-syd leg
[02:14] <SteveA> ok
[02:14] <lifeless> and there is no connecting flight vilnius - london on the same day - they arrive on ly 3 hours apart, at the wrong airport
[02:14] <glatzor> carlos: hi
[02:15] <glatzor> i am the guy with the missing German translations in Rosetta.
[02:15] <SteveA> lifeless: if i'm going on elsewhere, i usually don't fly direct vilnius->gatwick, but go via frankfurt or schiphol to heathrow
[02:16] <lifeless> lifeless: ah. we're paying 222 AUD for the return gatwick-vilnius, and it was nearly three times that for the indirect routes she found
[02:16] <glatzor> carlos: they are still not imported. furthermore a lot of the kde upstream are missed, too.
[02:16] <SteveA> lifeless: even considering airbaltic?
[02:17] <lifeless> yup. in fact I am flying air baltic
[02:17] <SteveA> i'm surprised, but i guess there are a lot of tourists and bachelor parties here
[02:17] <lifeless> Air Baltic Corporation, ABC.
[02:18] <SteveA> gatwick to heathrow isn't too bad, if you have enough time
[02:21] <carlos> glatzor: let me see
[02:21] <carlos> glatzor: about KDE, could you point me to an example URL?
[02:22] <glatzor> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/kdebase/+translations
[02:24] <glatzor> carlos: i write an email to launchpad-users, ok?
[02:24] <carlos> glatzor: sure
[02:25] <glatzor> carlos: do you why this happened?
[02:26] <glatzor> carlos: would it be possible to get a list of all packages with rosetta translation sorted by the percentage of strings that were comitted through rosetta?
[02:26] <carlos> glatzor: I'm checking it atm...
[02:27] <glatzor> carlos: some people started to redo the whole translation and we loose completely the control.
[02:27] <carlos> hmm, seems like there is a problem with the ooo-writer translation
[02:28] <carlos> let me see what's exactly the problem
[02:28] <glatzor> yes. I pointed you to this problem some days ago
[02:29] <glatzor> carlos: furthermore do you know how the po file for ooo is created? i planned to reupload the upstream version but could only find a po file with a few messages in the 200mbyte source code of ooo
[02:32] <carlos> glatzor: https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+spec/rosetta-oo-import-export
[02:33] <carlos> glatzor: the .po header is not valid, I will fix it by hand now and notify doko (the maintainer of that package)
[02:33] <lifeless> ddaa: around ?
[02:33] <ddaa> gn...
[02:33] <lifeless> ddaa: is the chunnel trip easy to book - like does it get too full to get tickets ?
[02:34] <ddaa> usually not
[02:34] <ddaa> though booking late costs a large premium
[02:35] <ddaa> on any given day, you should be able to book a ticket  up to the week before
[02:35] <glatzor> carlos: thanks.
[02:35] <ddaa> but best to book a couple of months in advance
[02:36] <lifeless> ddaa: well, dont have a couple of months warning ;).
[02:36] <lifeless> ddaa: still seems like the sanest route for me lon-paris
[02:36] <glatzor> carlos: what about the kde translations?
[02:36] <ddaa> certainly the most comfortable way to do this trip
[02:37] <glatzor> carlos: should i write an email to our list asking for packages that have been translated from the beginning?
[02:37] <ddaa> might be marginally slower depending on boarding times
[02:37] <ddaa> (than the plane)
[02:37] <carlos> glatzor: about KDE... I don't see anythingpending to be imported
[02:37] <carlos> glatzor: so I guess there is no German translation in the package we imported for Dapper
[02:38] <carlos> glatzor: what do you mean about packages that have been translated?
[02:38] <carlos> glatzor: asking me to get that list? asking to do what?
[02:39] <glatzor> carlos: some kde translators complained about a lot of mssing upstream translation. that is why many started to redo the whole translation in rosetta.
[02:39] <carlos> glatzor: when was it?
[02:39] <carlos> we imported all translations some time ago already....
[02:40] <glatzor> carlos: I have to admit that I haven't translated any KDE app yet. I was informed about this at the weekend.
[02:40] <carlos> if upstream got new translations that we don't have, perhaps you should ask Riddell to do a new upload with the updates
[02:41] <carlos> glatzor: please, ask them to write to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and / or<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:41] <glatzor> I raised the openoffice issue on your mailing list and some kde translators responded
[02:41] <carlos> with some extra informatio nso I could check what's missing
[02:41] <carlos> oh
[02:41] <carlos> ok, I will take a look after lunch
[02:42] <carlos> glatzor: do you need anything else that cannot wait until I'm back from lunch?
[02:42] <glatzor> I will write an email to the list asking for the exact packages and the steps that have been taken. A translator started to reupload the upstream translations
[02:43] <glatzor> carlos: no, i will leave soon, too.
[02:43] <carlos> glatzor: ok, thanks
[02:43] <carlos> see you later!
[02:43] <glatzor> carlos: dapper release is the dead line :)
[02:43] <carlos> glatzor: yeah ;-)
[02:43] <glatzor> enjoy yourself
[02:43] <carlos> glatzor: well, not really, we have language packs after release too
[02:47] <salgado> stub, around?
[02:51] <stub> salgado: yes
[03:09] <SteveA> carlos: we should meet sometime this afternoon
[03:22] <carlos> SteveA: yeah, I pinged kiko to confirm the time, but seems like he's not around
[03:23] <SteveA> no answer on his phone
[03:23] <SteveA> salgado: do you know where kiko is today?
[03:24] <salgado> SteveA, no, I didn't talk to him since saturday. but I'd guess he's riding his bike somewhere. that would explaing he not answering his phone
[03:25] <SteveA> that's strange, as he had a meeting arranged with me and carlos for this afternoon (europe time)
[03:26] <carlos> SteveA: he's not late yet, he still has 35 minutes.
[03:27] <SteveA> carlos: okay
[03:36] <ddaa> lifeless: ping
[03:36] <lifeless> pong
[03:36] <ddaa> something puzzling in cscvs
[03:36] <lifeless> shoot
[03:36] <ddaa> There's a DeletedDir class, with an apply method
[03:36] <ddaa> however the apply method is not used
[03:36] <ddaa> instead the ChangesIterator for svn_oo uses DeletedAdaptor
[03:37] <ddaa> Though it look like DeletedDir.apply would work with non-empty dirs
[03:37] <ddaa> lifeless: what's the point of the DeletedAdaptor gymnastic then?
[03:38] <ddaa> And what's the point of the DeletedDir, too?
[03:38] <lifeless> didn't you piss on this most recently ?
[03:38] <lifeless> :)
[03:39] <ddaa> mh
[03:39] <ddaa> how "most recently"?
[03:39] <lifeless> last few changes in this area were from you I thought
[03:39] <ddaa> I guess I should look at the annotation then.
[03:39] <ddaa> Nope...
[03:39] <ddaa> There's a comment from you
[03:40] <ddaa>                 # RBC 20050608 svn does not return the individually removed
[03:40] <ddaa>                 # paths here, rather it returns the topmost rm'd element.
[03:40] <ddaa>                 # we synthetise a list of the elements in the prior revision
[03:40] <ddaa>                 # and Adapt a SourceIterator on that to give DeletedAdapter
[03:40] <ddaa>                 # changes. Note that this isn't *as* complete as it could be
[03:40] <ddaa>                 # - we could check the changed paths for moves out from the
[03:40] <ddaa>                 # deleted subtree and move them twice, or otherwise preserve
[03:40] <ddaa>                 # their identity.
[03:40] <ddaa> the recent changes are a copy of that logic for copied directories
[03:40] <ddaa> different code
[03:40] <lifeless> IIRC its like this
[03:41] <lifeless> the deleted dir class was written to deal with a 'D foo/' from svn
[03:41] <ddaa> I know what it's like, the question WHY do you need to handle files inside the deleted dir individually
[03:41] <lifeless> but then we found out that when an entire tree is deleted. svn helpfully fails to tell us that the files inside the directory have been removed
[03:41] <ddaa> svn indeed only records deletion of the topmost directory
[03:42] <lifeless> as we dont want to delete a file that was not meant to be deleted, say if our understanding of whats in that directory differs from subversions, we dont just do a recursive delete.
[03:42] <ddaa> What I'm wondering is why the "iterator over the things being deleted under the directory" is needed at all
[03:43] <ddaa> well, for one thing, I'm pretty sure the code fails to achieve that, since pybaz.WorkingTree.delete does shutil.rmtree for directories
[03:43] <lifeless> gargleblaster
[03:43] <ddaa> but for the other thing, I do not understand what it buys us to be paranoid there, what should we do if we ever find a discrepancy
[03:44] <ddaa> ?
[03:44] <lifeless> oh
[03:45] <lifeless> well if there is a difference in the listed files bzr<->svn, then applying the svn 'delete' patch should raise a conflict
[03:45] <lifeless> just like a svn patch that alters a file text conflicts if it does not match
[03:45] <ddaa> you mean it's just a random paranoid check?
[03:45] <ddaa> lifeless: well, actually svn patching no longer conflicts
[03:45] <lifeless> I mean its not random, its consistent with the rest of the code
[03:46] <ddaa> because some svn server refused to give us patch, so I turned that into "svn cat > file"
[03:46] <kiko> good morning
[03:46] <kiko> SteveA, carlos: ahoy there
[03:46] <SteveA> hey kiko
[03:46] <carlos> kiko: hi
[03:46] <lifeless> ddaa: well, your risk ;)
[03:46] <ddaa> thinking that "if we get a minor discrepancy, too bad, but if it's serious it will get caught by the consistency check"
[03:47] <carlos> kiko: would we have a fast meeting in 15 minutes about my tasks?
[03:48] <kiko> carlos, SteveA: in 12 minutes, if I have my watch on right
[03:48] <kiko> do I?
[03:48] <ddaa> mh... actually, I think that was not svn not giving patch
[03:48] <carlos> kiko: yes
[03:48] <ddaa> I think that was something even more braindead
[03:48] <ddaa> like svn sometimes giving us diff data patch would not apply
[03:49] <kiko> carlos, SteveA #launchpad-meeting?
[03:49] <ddaa> lifeless: So it was just a thing about cscvs being very fussy by design?
[03:49] <carlos> sure
[03:49] <lifeless> ddaa: ITYM robust
[03:49] <lifeless> ddaa: but yes
[03:49] <carlos> jordi: are you going to attend?
[03:50] <ddaa> FSVO robust, yielding essentially unfixable fatal errors on garbage in is not a very useful value of robust
[03:50] <ddaa> since the garbage is usually not fixable
[03:50] <lifeless> true.
[03:51] <lifeless> value judgement was that doing the wrong thing was more harmful than refusing to do anything
[03:51] <ddaa> understood
[03:52] <ddaa> this is probably going to change though, because I need to get that stuff going somehow
[03:53] <ddaa> thank you for the clarification
[03:57] <ddaa> lifeless: oh, btw
[03:57] <ddaa> lifeless: svn grew a support for versioned symlinks
[03:57] <lifeless> yah
[03:58] <ddaa> lifeless: does the the consistency check handle symlinks properly?
[03:58] <lifeless> no idea
[03:58] <lifeless> *meep*
[03:59] <ddaa> lifeless: cvs (cvsnt actually...) also grew support for merge points
[03:59] <ddaa> ...
[04:25] <jordi> carlos, is it over?
[04:26] <kiko> not yet
[04:27] <jordi> I don't see anyone in the channel
[04:27] <kiko> #launchpad-meeting
[04:27] <jordi> doh
[04:40] <zul> hi guys, how do i get an @ubuntu.com email address?
[04:41] <kiko> you need to become an ubuntu member. it's a FAQ.
[04:41] <zul> i am..
[04:41] <jsgotangco> hmm it should already there
[04:41] <jsgotangco> it should forward to your default email address in lp
[04:41] <zul> lemme check
[04:42] <jsgotangco><EMAIL_ADDRESS>i think
[04:42] <jsgotangco> forwards to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:42] <lifeless> gnight all
[04:42] <zul> jsgotangco: let me send an email to myself
[04:43] <zul> jsgotangco: yeah it works
[04:43] <jsgotangco> cool
[04:48] <kiko> bradb, ping
[04:48] <bradb> kiko: pong
[04:51] <salgado> kiko, do you have access to asuka? if so, can you check if there's a code update going on there?
[04:52] <SteveA> bradb: how are you today?
[04:54] <kiko> salgado, AFAICT staging has been broken since friday.
[04:54] <kiko> matsubara can say so too
[04:54] <salgado> no, it's running fine now
[04:54] <SteveA> stub sent a message about staging
[04:54] <SteveA> there was a database-revision issue
[04:54] <SteveA> so the automatic scripts wouldn't work properly
[04:55] <ddaa> salgado: did you mean that "reassign product" is now restricted to admins?
[04:55] <bradb> SteveA: it's an ongoing thing, but i'll be ok
[04:55] <ddaa> what's the rationale for that?
[04:55] <salgado> kiko, I asked stub to do a code update there, but he just left and didn't say anything about the update
[04:56] <kiko> SteveA, can you contact stub to check on this please?
[04:57] <salgado> maybe stub's not needed.
[04:57] <salgado> ddaa, I have no idea what the rationale is. I didn't make this change
[04:57] <matsubara> ddaa: that's bug 41639
[04:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41639 in launchpad "Product owner should be able to reassign ownership to another user." [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41639
[04:57] <ddaa> duh
[04:57] <ddaa> needs to get my brain patched
[04:58] <ddaa> salgado: matsubara: I'm sorry I keep confusing you two
[04:58] <ddaa> salgado: mh... okay, I thought it was _already_ possible reassign just with Launchpad.Edit
[04:58] <salgado> ddaa, that change of matsubara was to make the permission of the page match the permission of the owner attribute in the zcml declaration
[04:58] <ddaa> grah
[04:59] <ddaa> matsubara: ^ see message to salgado
[04:59] <salgado> I don't know who protected the owner attribute with launchpad.Admin
[05:00] <ddaa> okay nevermind, it looks like I'm just confused
[05:03] <bradb> lifeless: ping
[05:15] <bradb> lifeless: unping
[05:34] <salgado> carlos, ping?
[05:38] <SteveA> jordi:
[05:39] <carlos> salgado: pong
[05:40] <SteveA> jordi: phone call?
[05:40] <salgado> hi carlos. would you do a code update on staging for me?
[05:40] <carlos> sure
[05:41] <sivang> hmm , Edd Dumbill had lots to do with the Registry, so it seems. interesting.
[05:43] <jordi> SteveA: let's go for it
[05:46] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  Fixes bug 42644 (Launchpad front page uses 'project' when it means 'product') and bug 44618 (Simple search pages have 'Advanced search' heading). (r3555: Matthew Paul Thomas)
[05:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42644 in launchpad "Launchpad home page uses "project" when it means "product"" [Minor,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42644
[05:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44618 in malone "Simple search pages have "Advanced search" heading" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44618
[05:51] <carlos> is anyone using staging?
[05:51] <carlos> I need to turn it down to apply some changes from salgado
[05:52] <aa_> hello, if I push to the supermirror, is that equivalent to launchpad storing my main repository forever?
[05:55] <carlos> aa_: I think so, yes
[05:58] <sivang> hehe
[06:04] <aa_> carlos: thanks
[06:11] <kiko> BjornT, SteveA: any clue on the non-functioniong XMLRPC?
[06:15] <SteveA> kiko: staging, production or both?
[06:15] <kiko> SteveA, see email from stuart.
[06:17] <SteveA> kiko: i'll give it a test
[06:19] <SteveA> so, xmlrpc works in production
[06:19] <SteveA> staging isn't even running at the moment
[06:20] <kiko> yes, and we need it running
[06:21] <salgado> carlos shut it down, I think
[06:21] <kiko> I wonder if it is only not responding on localhost then?
[06:21] <carlos> SteveA: I'm updating it atm
[06:21] <salgado> to get my branch running there
[06:22] <SteveA> ok
[06:22] <SteveA> kiko: also, stu tested it with a GET.  xmlrpc uses POST only.  now, it should have returned a 501 or something, not just closed the connection, but that's probably a bug in my server code.
[06:22] <kiko> I see
[06:23] <kiko> ok cool
[06:23] <sabdfl> greetings lunchpadders!
[06:24] <SteveA> hi mark
[06:24] <SteveA> kiko: anyway, i'll try it on staging when carlos has done with updating it
[06:24] <kiko> ok, thanks SteveA
[06:24] <SteveA> the test method of xmlrpc works in production anyway.  i just tried it from outside
[06:25] <kiko> okay, it's probably just stub's test.
[06:25] <malcc> I'm glad I'm not the only one who always reads the name as lunchpad
[06:25] <kiko> SteveA, btw, Znarl would like to add xmlrpc.launchpad.net to their monitoring, but it needs to respond back with something useful first.
[06:25] <kiko> malcc, that must be a sign from heaven
[06:25] <SteveA> he can monitor it with a POST
[06:25] <kiko-fud> SteveA, just POST / ?
[06:26] <SteveA> no
[06:26] <malcc> kiko, what, that I like lunch? You don't need signs from heaven to tell you that, just eyes. Or scales.
[06:26] <SteveA> i can supply a python script that will do a test
[06:26] <kiko-fud> can you email him with details, SteveA? cool!
[06:26] <SteveA> i think that would be more useful than a GET when we don't care about GET for it
[06:26] <SteveA> i wonder if Znarl is around?  i'd like to negotiate what kind of test is useful to him.
[06:26] <kiko-fud> malcc, the sign is that it would be lunchtime for me at this moment
[06:26] <kiko-fud> SteveA, he is around.
[06:26] <SteveA> i could provide a small python script, for example
[06:27] <Znarl> SteveA : Yes, please do and I'll add it into our monitoring system.
[06:28] <SteveA> Znarl: what do you need?  a python script that gives an exit code of 0 for "okay" and 666 for "problem" ?
[06:29] <Znarl> SteveA : A URL would be better, and a POST string.  We already have reliable http monitoring stuff in place.
[06:30] <SteveA> ok
[06:32] <kiko-fud> carlos, we need proper validation to avoid https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/2006-05-15/A37
[06:33] <kiko-fud> the tarfile.open() call needs to check if ReadError is raised
[06:34] <carlos> right, is there a bug filed?
[06:34] <kiko-fud> not sure -- matsubara?
[06:34] <kiko-fud> ir can also raise ValueError which is very unfortunate
[06:37] <kiko-fud> but which we should work around in a different way
[06:39] <matsubara> kiko-fud, carlos: bug 42584
[06:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42584 in rosetta "OOPS in pots upload page while uploading invalid compressed tarball" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42584
[06:43] <carlos> hmmm
[06:43] <carlos> better wait for staging
[07:01] <salgado> carlos, is it the merge that takes too long when updating staging?
[07:02] <carlos> salgado: yes
[07:07] <salgado> hmmm. I guess it's not easy to tell how much more time it's going to take, based on previous experince?
[07:07] <carlos> salgado: bzr finished
[07:07] <carlos> It will take 5 minutes or so
[07:07] <salgado> oh, that's great
[07:09] <salgado> carlos, is there a db update included in this process?
[07:09] <carlos> salgado: yes
[07:09] <carlos> the path is already applied
[07:09] <carlos> patch
[07:18] <glatzor> thanks for fixing these issues so fast
[07:19] <carlos> glatzor: the kde thing is not yet fixed, but Riddell told me that he will upload a new version of that package today, so I guess tomorrow it should be fixed
[07:19] <glatzor> you did all you could.
[07:22] <carlos> SteveA, salgado: staging is back to life
[07:22] <carlos> later!!!
[07:22] <SteveA> thanks carlos
[07:23] <SteveA> kiko-fud: i confirm that xmlrpc.staging.launchpad.net is working properly
[07:26] <salgado> thanks carlos!
[07:47] <kiko-fud> thanks SteveA
[08:56] <kiko> carlos, ping?
[08:57] <kiko> ddaa, ping?
[09:00] <bradb> kiko: phone call time?
[09:00] <kiko> yep
[09:17] <ddaa> kiko: pong
[09:52] <mdke> jordi: happy birthday
[10:00] <salgado> BjornT, around?
[10:04] <BjornT> salgado: yeah. i'm about to go to bed soon, though.
[10:08] <salgado> BjornT, quick question, then: in GeneralFormViewFactory(), does the GeneralFormView gets created inside the call to SimpleViewClass()?
[10:10] <jordi> mdke: thanks dude!
[10:12] <BjornT> salgado: no, not quite. a new class is created, which has GeneralFormView as a base class.
[10:14] <salgado> BjornT, I see. but that does result in GeneralFormView.__init__() being called?
[10:14] <jordi> my email is mess a mess right now
[10:14] <BjornT> salgado: no, it shouldn't do that.
[10:37] <sivang> jordi: happy birthday, how old are you? :)
[10:40] <mdke> VERY old
[10:41] <crimsun> kiko: ping
[10:45] <crimsun> kiko: unping, sorry
[11:03] <claude> someone here ready to validate a pot file in rosetta import queue?
[11:03] <claude> carlos, jordi ?
[11:30] <lifeless> morning
[11:30] <__kaffeefilter> gmorning
[11:33] <sivang> morning lifeless , so knis are now part of bzr upstream? (trying to speculate how long to wait before Jeff updates the dapper packages with it ;-))
[11:33] <sivang> knits, even
[11:34] <lifeless> sivang: huh ? dapper packages use knits by default
[11:35] <sivang> lifeless: hmm, since when? :) (funny to know I used them already)
[11:36] <lifeless> since we release 0.8
[11:36] <sivang> ah. so I was supposed to see a performance improvment since 0.8 ?
[11:37] <LarstiQ> sivang: weaves don't get autoupgraded
[11:37] <sivang> LarstiQ: I see, let's move to #bzr
[11:47] <kiko> wow
[11:47] <kiko> that was a long interlude