[03:36] <Viper550> so you're wanting to replace rhythmbox with banshee
[04:16] <lapion> does anyone know where I can get an update history ?
[04:19] <lapion> an upgrade history of any given ubuntu release >
[05:41] <linuxuz3r> can i still use gnome if unity is the default desktop environment for ubuntu?
[05:42] <bazhang> yes, would you like a link?
[05:45] <bazhang> http://askubuntu.com/questions/9968/will-ubuntu-11-10-feature-gnome-shell-closed
[05:45] <bazhang> whoops
[05:45] <bazhang> same is true for 11.04 though
[05:48] <bazhang> http://askubuntu.com/questions/9861/will-unity-be-the-only-option-during-install linuxuz3r
[05:48] <linuxuz3r> thanks a lot man
[05:49] <bazhang> welcome
[05:49] <linuxuz3r> hey what hardware does unity support
[05:49] <andresmh> last year I reported a regression bug with audio, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/409819,  today I am testing 10.10 using a LiveUSB and I found the same problem. I am just wondering if there's anything I can do to help make it possible to get it fix in the next version of Ubuntu.
[05:50] <bazhang> linuxuz3r, stuff that can do 3D compositing
[05:50] <linuxuz3r> oh ok
[05:51] <bazhang> but even if you have that, and still dont want unity, you can install the traditional Gnome interface
[06:25] <linuxuz3r> bazhang which is better unity or gnomeshell
[06:25] <bazhang> linuxuz3r, hard to say now, as neither is completed. perhaps in six months time we can judge (if you mean unity for the desktop)
[06:26] <linuxuz3r> yes
[06:26] <bazhang> askubuntu.com has lots and lots on this, by the way
[06:27] <linuxuz3r> bazhang unity comes with themes that are preinstalled right
[06:27] <bazhang> linuxuz3r, for 11.04 ?
[06:27] <linuxuz3r> for all
[06:28] <bazhang> linuxuz3r, for 10.10 no idea as I dont use netbook edition, for 11.04 its not completed, so cannot speculate
[06:28] <linuxuz3r> ok
[12:57] <Goog_Josh> does anybody khow why cron can't exec some applications like totem, kaffeine etc.?
[12:58] <UndiFineD> those apps need the gui, which crontab cannot provide
[12:59] <UndiFineD> crontab is started before Xorg
[13:01] <Goog_Josh> i see, but how to plan the launch of these programs?
[13:02] <UndiFineD> I don think there is a time starting gui app yet
[13:03] <UndiFineD> though there are alarm apps, so it should not be difficult
[13:03] <Goog_Josh> )) i realized. tell me some sheduler apps please
[13:04] <Goog_Josh> what is alarm?
[13:04] <UndiFineD> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/schedule-tasks-using-gnome-schedule-a-cron-at-gui-in-ubuntu.html
[13:04] <UndiFineD> an AT gui :)
[13:05] <Goog_Josh> thank a lot
[14:29] <sebsebseb> Hi  Ok so what do people here think about Ubuntu 11.04 using  Unity by default for the desktop edition instead of Gnome Shell?
[14:31] <penguin42> sebsebseb: I want to try Unity first to make my mind up; I tried Gnome Shell a while ago and decided I really didn't want to use it - so IMHO it can't be worse
[14:32] <sebsebseb> penguin42: Gnome Shell is good in my expereince,  just some how seems to lack certain features, but at the moment its only a window manager on top of Gnome 2, so thats probably why
[14:33] <sebsebseb> I tried Unity on my desktop PC
[14:33] <penguin42> sebsebseb: I really couldn't figure out how to do basic things in it
[14:33] <sebsebseb> and big screen as well
[14:33] <sebsebseb> and yeah it was ok like that
[14:33] <htorque> i think unity is more ready than gnome shell is (also, mutter performance seems to vary heavily depending on hardware/driver combination). still, it's a bold move - way bolder than moving window buttons around :P
[14:33] <sebsebseb> penguin42: Which Unity or Gnome Shell?
[14:33] <penguin42> sebsebseb: I think it's a mistake requiring 3d
[14:33] <penguin42> sebsebseb: Gnome Shell
[14:34] <sebsebseb> well Compiz needs 3D support,  11.04's Unity will use Compiz
[14:34] <sebsebseb> also the current Unity needs 3D support it seems
[14:34] <sebsebseb> or at least the propritary Nivida driver for example, for those cards
[14:34] <htorque> so does gnome shell
[14:34] <penguin42> yeh, and I think it's going to cause a world of pain
[14:34] <sebsebseb> htorque: yes exactly, both seem to need 3D support
[14:35] <penguin42> it means VMs aren't going to work properly and push the low end machines too hard
[14:35] <sebsebseb> penguin42: yep probabnly
[14:35] <htorque> the only problem i see: you can't ship with BLOBs, so how will it work eg. with nouveau?
[14:36] <sebsebseb> htorque: Gnome Shell works in Fedora with  Nouveau when it comes to someone I know online,  personally I still need the driver in Fedora it seems, but I got Nivida so yeah
[14:36] <htorque> seeing the gnome desktop after install and then having to install the blob AND unity to get unity is not likely what people want :D
[14:36] <sebsebseb> however yeah I would like to vm  try  11.04 with Unity, but  maybe the driver will cause an issue, when comes to that, hmm
[14:36] <htorque> yeah, current unity works fine for me with nouveau's experimental 3d support, but that won't land in 11.04
[14:36] <sebsebseb> I want to vm test :)
[14:37] <charlie-tca> sebsebseb: I will be testing unity later today or tommorrow myself. I think it is great!
[14:39] <htorque> njpatel said in his blog, that "[...] we'll make a best attempt at running, trying to gracefully degrade through features, but at least getting to you a panel, launcher and places."
[14:39] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: I liked trying in 10.10 like I did
[14:39] <htorque> so maybe they can turn off enough features so nouveau and co can run, dunno
[14:39] <htorque> source: http://njpatel.blogspot.com/2010/10/marks-keynote-at-uds-spoke-about-one-of.html
[14:40] <charlie-tca> nouveau will not allow compiz to run. Once unity defaults to compiz, those of us with nvidia cards will probably fall back to unity without compiz until the hardware drviers are installed
[14:41] <penguin42> charlie-tca: So unity runs ok without compiz?
[14:41] <charlie-tca> yes
[14:41] <penguin42> hmm that is more encouraging
[14:41] <charlie-tca> The basic unity package does not need compiz
[14:41] <sebsebseb> Unity seems to be ok really, end userwise that is,  technically well their are differnet views.  For example some think its great and may give Gnome Shell some competition,  others think it is basically a fork of the Gnome  Interface.
[14:42] <sebsebseb> Thing is with Unity, other distros won't just do it, so hmm.
[14:42] <charlie-tca> Even a week at UDS with out a computer is a great experience!
[14:42] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: Did you?
[14:42] <penguin42> charlie-tca: You went to UDS without a computer?
[14:43] <charlie-tca> sebsebseb: yes
[14:43] <charlie-tca> penguin42: yes
[14:43] <htorque> a week without computer - crazy! :D
[14:43] <penguin42> charlie-tca: Now while I can appreciate getting away from it a bit, UDS seems an odd place to go without a computer
[14:43] <charlie-tca> A computer is not a absolute necessity! A desire to help is, though
[14:43] <sebsebseb> htorque: I nearly did that, but then turns out I could use the net a bit, at the place I was staying,  no didn't go to UDS, but yes I did go some where hot :)
[14:43] <charlie-tca> Gotta have something smaller then a desktop there!
[14:44] <sebsebseb> and enough Internet time to find out what was going on with UDS and such :)
[14:44] <sebsebseb> well some of what was going on
[14:44] <charlie-tca> sebsebseb: when the Unity package is ready, it will be offered upstream and to other distros. At this time, it is not considered ready for that
[14:45] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: to upstream?  you mean Debian or?  I mean Canonical will be the upstream?
[14:45] <penguin42> charlie-tca: I had tried unity a few months ago on Maverick and must admit I didn't like what I saw of the way that the menu bar stuff was done - it seemed a bit flaky
[14:45] <charlie-tca> penguin42: not really getting away from it without the computer. UDS is a chance to take place in the future of computing!
[14:46] <charlie-tca> sebsebseb: to upstream means to debian and gnome
[14:46] <sebsebseb> penguin42: also the bar down the left, yes its not a dock, but it is similar hmm
[14:46] <charlie-tca> Canonical will be upstream for unity, but the entire package will be available for them if they want if include it
[14:46] <penguin42> charlie-tca: I listed to many of the sessions on icecast - I hadn't realised UDS has just so many parallel tracks
[14:47] <charlie-tca> heh
[14:47] <charlie-tca> It is very hard to hit them all, too
[14:47] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: well as long as Unity isn't Ubuntu only for ages,  then I guess things will be ok :)
[14:47] <penguin42> something like 10 at a time
[14:47] <htorque> penguin42, yeah, next time i have to get an additional pair of ears
[14:47] <charlie-tca> Try it in person! You can not hit everything at once
[14:48] <penguin42> what I really worry about with gnome-shell and unity is that they'll do a KDE4 - i.e. something that will take years to stabilise and still be missing features the previous one had
[14:48] <charlie-tca> Unity is going to be smoothed out for Natty. Also, accessibility will be included.
[14:48] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca:  anyway Desktop Linux is meant to be very much so about choice, from the distros, to the programs people have installed, from browsers, to user interfaces, to IRC clients, to well nearly whatever, you get what I mean :)
[14:49] <charlie-tca> Unity is just a shell for gnome, the user can opt for gnome-shell instead when logging in
[14:49] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: yep I know
[14:49] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: and its good to have a choice between Gnome Shell and Unity I guess, but not only for Ubuntu, other distros as well :)
[14:50] <charlie-tca> That is a long range goal, too
[14:50] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: however makes sense to have it working quite well in Ubuntu before offering it properly to upstream I guess,  but then again, there  would be people using other distros, who would test in their distro and such
[14:51] <charlie-tca> sebsebseb: don't want them to have to try to offer a broken version of unity, though.
[14:51] <IdleOne> if Debian wants to offer Unity they will downstream
[14:51] <IdleOne> Ubuntu is the upstream for Unity
[14:51]  * penguin42 probably should put Unity on <--- this natty laptop and see if I can get on with it, or start filing bugs
[14:51] <sebsebseb> IdleOne: yep
[14:52] <sebsebseb> IdleOne: as I said earlier Canonical are the upstream for Unity
[14:52] <IdleOne> so Ubuntu does not need to offer Unity to upstream
[14:52] <IdleOne> Unity is open and any distro who wants to use it are welcome to
[14:52] <charlie-tca> And I will say, UDS without a computer is way BETTER than no UDS with a computer!
[14:53] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: surely computers at UDS you can borrow anyway?
[14:53] <charlie-tca> other people have spares with them
[14:53] <sebsebseb> spares?
[14:53] <IdleOne> spares = extra
[14:55] <charlie-tca> It was enough for me to try and follow what I could and actively participate. I hate worrying about equipment I don't own.
[14:57] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: of course there is a little issue,  the CA may stop other distros from wanting to use it
[14:57] <charlie-tca> We won't discuss that yet
[14:59] <penguin42> CA?
[14:59] <sebsebseb> penguin42: Copyright Assignments
[14:59] <penguin42> ah
[15:01]  * sebsebseb hopes Desktop Unity will work ok in Virtualbox :)
[15:02] <charlie-tca> If you have 3d in VBox, it should
[15:02] <charlie-tca> unfortunately, nvidia = hardware driver = no 3d in VBox?
[15:02] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: don't think I have done Compiz or anything like that before in vm, but yeah I guess its just have the driver installed on the host OS,  and then also tell it to do 3D support in the vm
[15:02] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: and maybe even install the propritary Nivida criver into the Ubuntu vm?
[15:03] <penguin42> depends on the VM system as to whether it can pass 3d stuff through; for example there is discussion of one for kvm,b ut only early
[15:04] <charlie-tca> um, Don't know  if you can install the hardware driver in VBox. Perhaps installing guest additions will make things work, though
[15:04] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: and testing from the standard Live CD probably won't really work out, since  it will want to install the Nivida driver, and then restart x or whatever you know.  hmm,  but maybe you can make a remaster CD  with the driver already part of it, and try like that, I don't kow.
[15:04] <sebsebseb> well I guess if its set up right, can vm test it :)
[15:05] <charlie-tca> I have to try the live cd. It seems like a persistent install will work, though
[15:05] <sebsebseb> persistent install? you mean from a Live USB for example, with the settings saved?
[15:05] <charlie-tca> yes, but you can also do that from the live cd
[15:06] <sebsebseb> how?  if  installing the nvidia driver, will want to log out
[15:07] <charlie-tca> If the settings are saved, why won't it save them regardless of media used to run it?
[15:07] <charlie-tca> If I tell the live cd to save my settings on a hard drive, it will.
[15:07] <sebsebseb> yeah can maybe save the settings onto a USB
[15:07] <kklimonda_> hello
[15:07] <sebsebseb> or something
[15:08] <sebsebseb> kklimonda_: Hello
[15:08] <kklimonda_> bah, 16 hours long journey back was bad but still uds was worth it.
[15:09] <charlie-tca> The image does not care if you tell it to use a USB partition or hard drive partition to save to. It only wants to know where to save.
[15:09] <charlie-tca> 16 hours? ouch!
[15:10] <BUGabundo> hey hey kklimonda_
[15:11] <BUGabundo> fun ?
[15:11] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: ok well hopefuly I don't have to put Ubuntu back on this computer to test Unity Desktop 11.04.
[15:11]  * sebsebseb waits for the distro he wants to use to be made, whilst using Fedora in the mean time on here :)
[15:11] <kklimonda_> BUGabundo: yeah - it was great meeting all the people one knows only from irc.
[15:12] <sebsebseb> kklimonda_: yeah can be fun to meet Intenret people, 16 hours back though?  where you live?
[15:12] <BUGabundo> kklimonda_: have fun : http://paste.ubuntu.com/523306/ http://paste.ubuntu.com/523297/
[15:12] <kklimonda_> charlie-tca: heh, I had to fly through Chicago and wait 2 or 3 hours for my plane there so that's why it took so long
[15:12] <kklimonda_> sebsebseb: Poland
[15:13] <kklimonda_> BUGabundo: nice, how one gets such a nifty tool?
[15:13] <htorque> is the uds group photo online somewhere?
[15:14] <BUGabundo> kklimonda_: hummm??? you don't know about PM? (package manager)
[15:14] <yofel> . . . does someone have an idea what apt want's from me? I already tried to remove the lists, didn't help http://paste.ubuntu.com/523309/
[15:14] <sebsebseb> kklimonda_: uh plane back was about 7 hours for you?  however sure with other travelling and such could be like 16 hours I guess.
[15:14] <kklimonda_> BUGabundo: nope
[15:14] <BUGabundo> no you do :P
[15:14] <kklimonda_> sebsebseb: it was 8:30 because we had a good wind ;)
[15:14] <kklimonda_> the flight from Warsaw to NY took 9:20
[15:15] <BUGabundo> yofel: removing lists didn't help?
[15:15] <sebsebseb> kklimonda_: you flew to New York?
[15:15] <BUGabundo> nor apt clean?
[15:15] <yofel> BUGabundo: nope
[15:15] <kklimonda_> sebsebseb: yes, I didn't get a direct connection between Warsaw and Orlando for some reason
[15:15] <BUGabundo> yofel: change mirror then
[15:16] <yofel> BUGabundo: that's the dbgsym server... does that have mirrors?
[15:16] <sebsebseb> kklimonda_: ah ok that explains it, well neither did we, when we went to Orlando just over two years ago
[15:17] <kklimonda_> and I've learnt something new - don't buy a 1000 page long book for a flight. There is no way to reas such a brick ;)
[15:17] <charlie-tca> yofel: looks like a temporary unavailable server. I did not think dbgsym has mirrors.
[15:18] <BUGabundo> yofel:  no
[15:18] <BUGabundo> take it out for now ?
[15:19] <yofel> charlie-tca: well, the odd thing is that only that one pc errors out (amd64 natty) my other pcs (i386 natty and amd64 mav) work fine :S
[15:20] <penguin42> yofel: Disk full?
[15:20] <yofel> penguin42: 13GiB free
[15:21] <yofel> is there a way to make apt very verbose? 'undetermined error' doesn't help much..
[15:22] <penguin42> yofel: ltrace :-)
[15:22] <yofel> -.- well, worth a try
[15:27] <yofel> hm, strace says: 'stat("/var/lib/apt/lists/ddebs.ubuntu.com_dists_lucid-proposed_multiverse_binary-amd64_Packages", 0x7fff4eaa42a0) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)' o.O
[15:28] <yofel> manually touching the file first gets rid of the error, wth...
[15:28] <penguin42> odd
[15:29] <yofel> remove the file and the error is back...
[15:40] <BUGabundo> wow that was ugly... lockup :\
[16:05] <yofel> was a bug in apt 0.8.7 it seems, the update to 0.8.8 seems to have fixed it
[16:42] <penguin42> damn, I wonder which .config option I need for lvm to actually work
[17:02] <penguin42> TToTD: Remember initrd in your config
[19:26] <alex_mayorga> Is bug 476866 getting fixed in Natty?
[19:27] <alex_mayorga> Looks like I have that on my laptop too, but mine is a Sony VAIO
[19:29] <Ian_Corne> alex_mayorga: I have a vaio, did you have to enable a kernel option to get it working (the touchpad)
[19:30] <alex_mayorga> Ian_Corne, I've just stumbled into the bug today
[19:31] <alex_mayorga> Ian_Corne: do you know the workaround?
[19:34] <Ian_Corne> alex_mayorga: I don't sorry
[19:34] <Ian_Corne> I don't even have the touchpad tab in the gui config
[19:34] <Ian_Corne> and going via gconf-editor doesn't work either
[19:42] <alex_mayorga> Ian_Corne: bad stuff
[19:44] <alex_mayorga> Ian_Corne: so you don't have "Touchpad" tab on "Mouse Preferences"
[19:46] <Ian_Corne> nope
[19:47] <Ian_Corne> but I _can_ click with the touchpad, so it's not a normal mouse either
[19:52] <alex_mayorga> Ian_Corne: I do have the tab here, but no two finger scrolling, I've found something, let me reboot and see how that goes
[20:02] <alex_mayorga> Ian_Corne: no luck, I tried installing gpointing-device-settings but it didn't do either
[20:02] <Ian_Corne> hmm
[20:04] <Ian_Corne> what about gsynatpics?
[20:05] <Ian_Corne> oh it's the gpointing thing :p
[20:06] <Ian_Corne> it only show as a "ImPS/2 Generic Wheel Mouse"
[20:06] <Ian_Corne> which is obviously wrong :p
[20:16] <alex_mayorga> I guess I'll propose the bug for natty
[20:18] <alex_mayorga> how do you nominate bugs now?
[20:19] <Ian_Corne> Well my problem is different from yours
[20:20] <Ian_Corne> by default my touchpad is not recognised
[20:21] <yofel> alex_mayorga: nomination shouldn't have changed
[20:31] <alex_mayorga> yofel: maybe I lost powers on launchpad then
[20:32] <yofel> for a simple nomination a common account should be sufficient
[20:34] <alex_mayorga> yofel: can you help with BUG 476866
[20:35] <alex_mayorga> now my caps lock seems to be nuts :(
[20:38] <rww> yofel: http://blog.launchpad.net/general/new-features-for-bug-supervisors
[20:38] <rww> tl;dr: only bug supervisors can nominate bugs now :\
[20:38] <yofel> oh, I missed that o.O
[20:39] <yofel> and I don't get why...
[20:40] <rww> I only vaguely know what that sentence means, I just remember it from when it was on Planet Ubuntu ;)
[20:40] <yofel> the fix released locking is good though
[20:49] <alex_mayorga> how do one turns into bug supervisor
[20:49] <yofel> thinking a bit more it makes sense I guess considering it was misused a lot in the past and you can't re-nominate stuff
[20:50] <alex_mayorga> is that the beginning of Ubuntu's closure?
[20:50] <yofel> alex_mayorga: you become a developer or motu or at least apply for bug control membership (bugsquad)
[20:50] <alex_mayorga> yofel: I'll look into it
[20:51] <yofel> alex_mayorga: no, it's not, the bug tracker is for communication between developers, not a place where users complain
[20:51] <yofel> and the release nomination is usually just for SRUs
[20:51] <yofel> alex_mayorga: you need to have worked for the bugsquad for a while for the last option
[20:52] <yofel> alex_mayorga: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl
[20:52] <yofel> and I don't see why that bug should be nominated for natty, the main task is always against the development release, so the bug automatically affects natty
[21:11] <alex_mayorga> yofel: thanks on the pointers and clarification
[21:11] <alex_mayorga> so were do we users complain then?
[21:17] <yofel> well, if you need help first you can ask for support here on IRC or by asking a question on launchpad (and other ways I can't think of currently) - the bug tracker is for reporting software behavior that should not happen to develpers, so 476866 is a valid bug, but please don't *expect* to get any immediate help there as that's not the developers job
[21:18] <Volkodav> there are forums too
[21:18] <yofel> in my case I never actually tried to get two finger scrolling to work here except on my EeePC which has it hardware-side
[22:27] <MatBoy> is swap on LVM possible ? I thought it was no problem but it cannot mount during boot it says


[08:08] <avaricen> Whats the link on the battery monitor for gnome?
[08:08] <avaricen> When you click 'About'
[08:08] <avaricen> A link should popup :P
[08:09] <avaricen> I just 'really' like that battery monitor, and i'm on another dist
[08:09] <avaricen> It doesn't come with it i'm afraid
[08:10] <avaricen> It's called 'battmon' I think


[00:00] <Yorvyk> hblount, alsamixer is already installed - open a terminal and type alsamixer
[00:02] <hblount> ooh. sorry i'm noob. which one is line in/mic?
[00:05] <Yorvyk> hblount, if you press the right arrow key it will move along to Mic
[00:07] <hblount> what is "line" and what is "LFE"?
[00:08] <Yorvyk> I don't know what LFE is, must some something with your hardware
[00:09] <hblount> ok thanks
[00:09] <Yorvyk> Line is normally used to connect an amp or similar
[00:28] <hblount> bye. merry new year
[03:48] <johnny77> I just installed LXDE over Ubuntu. While figuring out the panel, I accidentally deleted the "Application Launch Bar" on the far right that has the logout button. I'm trying to replace it, but can't get it to work.
[06:01] <JackyAlcine> Hello?
[06:01] <JackyAlcine> Any developers?
[06:01] <JackyAlcine> I'm curious about being on the team.
[06:01] <bioterror> join the mailinglist
[06:02] <JackyAlcine> Could you point me to that? I don't want to sign up to the wrong one.
[06:03] <bioterror> launchpad.net, theres lubuntu
[06:03] <head_victim> https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop
[06:03] <JackyAlcine> Thank you.
[06:03] <JackyAlcine> Does that include LXDE?
[06:03] <head_victim> Lubuntu uses lxde
[06:04] <JackyAlcine> Alright, thanks again.
[06:04] <head_victim> No worries
[17:08] <mmaksimov> Hi. How can I change the default key combination that changes keyboard layout in lubuntu?
[17:21] <mmaksimov> How can I change the default key combination that switches keyboard layout in lubuntu?
[20:54] <unhackmee> hey has anyone experienced problems with creating an encrypted home folder?
[20:54] <bioterror> some has been reported
[20:54] <bioterror> but I'm not a huge fan of them anymore
[20:56] <Yorvyk> It appears to a rather hit-n-miss affair with any flavour of Ubuntu
[20:58] <unhackmee> in that case, i suppose I should keep trying.
[20:59] <bioterror> well
[20:59] <bioterror> I had encrypted home
[20:59] <bioterror> then my hdd blew and I made image of it and then I had to deal with the encryption
[20:59] <bioterror> and guess what, I rm -rf'd the image :D
[20:59] <bioterror> as I couldnt get my hands on it
[21:00] <bioterror> and dont say anything about backups, as I was at the moment copying stuff over network as it happened :D
[21:01] <Yorvyk> I've seen more than a few people asking how to recover their data from similar problems
[21:01] <unhackmee> haha, well- ubuntu didnt work too bad for me for the last couple yrs..
[21:01] <bioterror> I tried lots of guides, no bonus
[21:02] <unhackmee> anyhow isnt that why the passphrase is for? ::confused::
[21:02] <bioterror> it's more than just a passphrase
[21:04] <unhackmee> how so?
[21:05] <bioterror> http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/ubuntu-mounting-your-encrypted-home-from-livecd/
[21:06] <bioterror> I couldnt chroot as my user
[21:06] <bioterror> :D
[21:10] <unhackmee> wow...
[21:10] <unhackmee> i'm speechless :P
[21:12] <unhackmee> i would suppose the passphrase would suffice in most circumstances.. :D
[21:16] <bioterror> hope I didnt scare him
[21:16] <bioterror> but having non encrypted backups sounds just stupid about encrypted stuff?
[21:18] <Yorvyk> Having been through a similar experience I believe people should know what they are letting themselves in for
[21:18] <Tatsujin> Hello, Lubuntu installs and i'm able to reboot after having installed it, but after having run the Updates it always appears to destroy my install so when i reboot all i get is a grub commandline and it doesnt boot lubuntu.
[21:18] <Tatsujin> anyone know what the problem might be?
[21:23] <bioterror> no errors nothing?
[21:23] <bioterror> just grub?
[21:24] <Tatsujin> yes
[21:25] <bioterror> hard to say
[21:25] <bioterror> no errors
[21:25] <Tatsujin> let me check what it exactly says , brb
[21:26] <Tatsujin> "Minimal BASH-Like line editing is supported"
[21:26] <Tatsujin> and just the commandline , basically
[21:26] <bioterror> what kind of computer you have?
[21:26] <Tatsujin> hp 510 laptop
[21:27] <Tatsujin> im using a ide2sata adapter for the hdd , it might be the reason it fucks up
[21:27] <bioterror> could be
[21:28] <bioterror> if it doesnt find the drive
[21:48] <Tatsujin> guess ill try to install it on my smaller hdd that doesnt need the adapter , thanks for the input
[21:48] <Tatsujin> bbl
[22:25] <desolator> hi uhm... I don't know if I was the only one with this problem but I'll just report it in here
[22:26] <desolator> lxpanel settings are created under root? seems to fail loading on a fresh install
[22:26] <desolator> gives empty menus
[22:27] <desolator> I had to chmod to show it properly
[22:27] <bioterror> I've not noticed anything like that
[22:27] <bioterror> 11.04 or what
[22:27] <desolator> yeah 11.04
[22:28] <phillw> I've not seen any chatter on the emailing list or here about that?
[22:28] <desolator> I did a google search but it seems like I'm a rare case or people solve it and didn't reported like me
[22:29] <phillw> desolator: if it occurred, the testers would have screamed it :)
[22:29] <phillw> have you ensured the cd is okay?
[22:30] <desolator> yeah
[22:30] <desolator> did a complete check before installing
[22:30] <phillw> desolator: I'll log it to my brain, but I have not seen any other report from the others who are testing.
[22:31] <phillw> desolator: by all means report it as a bug.
[22:32] <phillw> desolator: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/ReportingBugs
[22:48] <Tatsujin> Ah finally got lubuntu to work from another hdd , now the next problem!:)
[22:49] <Tatsujin> i can login fine but the whole desktop is still encrypted/empty
[22:49] <Tatsujin> and i click on the icon in my main dir that should unlock it but it doesnt do anything
[22:52]  * bioterror lifts hands up with the encryption
[22:54] <Tatsujin> how does this encryption system work? am i supposed to do some keycombo?:)
[22:57] <bioterror> with linux mint it decrypted
[22:57] <Tatsujin> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1601413 exactly the same problem
[22:58] <stlsaint> bioterror: yo yo yo
[22:58] <bioterror> hi stlsaint


[07:31] <akhilblue> guys there is a problem with fonts on 12.04. i think its isolated but would appreciate some help
[15:35] <TheLordOfTime> bleh, apparently Comcast is evil
[15:35] <TheLordOfTime> and is in need of dooming.
[15:35] <TheLordOfTime> anyways...
[15:36] <TheLordOfTime> who here uses Update Manger to update their packages?
[15:38] <penguin42> well I have done and do sometimes on other machines; but my main machine is Kubuntu so it uses Muon
[15:45] <TheLordOfTime> have you ever run into a bug where it autominimizes on Precise, and then opening it returns a white box you can't interact with?
[15:46] <penguin42> no, don't remember seeing that
[15:47] <TheLordOfTime> wonder if its a rendering issue in x, or whether its a bug in update manager
[15:48] <penguin42> that sounds like update manager isn't redrawing it's window
[15:48] <TheLordOfTime> might be
[15:48] <TheLordOfTime> it doesnt happen when it just loses focus but remains non-minimized
[15:48] <TheLordOfTime> i might file a bug on it
[15:55] <TheLordOfTime> i filed a bug on this, LP Bug 1030545
[15:55] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1030545 in update-manager "Update Manager window does not seem to redraw" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1030545


[22:30] <Shadowcrit> Hello there, can I ask for users opinions on a good web enabled control panel to help control my Ubuntu 14.04 VPS on the OpenVZ platform.
[22:30] <TJ-> Aki-Thinkpad: sorry, that was for laughingtiger ... darned tab-completion :)
[22:30] <Aki-Thinkpad> lol
[22:31] <Aki-Thinkpad> I guess I don't know what you mean by purged blootooth; are you mucking about with kernel modules?
[22:31] <Jeffrey_f> MajorTom: I'm connected on IM and via web.  Maybe there are issues on other servers in their system
[22:31] <MajorTom> I see
[22:31] <Aki-Thinkpad> laughingtiger, as in, are you trying to remove all blootooth modules from the linux kernel?
[22:31] <MajorTom> I will wait for they fix it
[22:31] <laughingtiger> well, Aki-Thinkpad, "libbluetooth3", "libgnome-bluetooth8" and "pulseaudio-module-bluetooth" are the three left things.
[22:31] <MajorTom> thanks jeffrey
[22:32] <Jeffrey_f> problem with Pidgin not minimizing to tray in Ubuntu 14.04 Gnome.  I don't see anything in preferences to fix this.  It used to minimize to the tray on hitting the [X] , now it just exits
[22:32] <Aki-Thinkpad> laughingtiger, what is the purpose? Just to free up resources?
[22:32] <laughingtiger> I don't know too much about editing kernels.
[22:32] <laughingtiger> no, to let the bluetooth not booting on startup.
[22:32] <Aki-Thinkpad> laughingtiger, disable bluetooth in the bios
[22:33] <Aki-Thinkpad> laughingtiger, this is a laptop, right?
[22:33] <skinux> Do I actually want to add a SWAP file or use a SWAP partition?
[22:33] <laughingtiger> nope, it's a larger one.
[22:33] <SierraAR> I'm wanting to upgrade an ubuntu 12.04 server to 14.04, but when I run sudo do-release-upgrade, it's telling me no new release found. Is there something else I need to do to update?
[22:33] <Aki-Thinkpad> if bluetooth is from your motherboard, disable it in bios
[22:33] <Aki-Thinkpad> if bluetooth is from a prehiperal; just unplug it
[22:35] <reisio> ...
[22:35] <zyntux> meh
[22:35] <TJ-> laughingtiger: simply blacklist the "bluetooth" module: "echo "blacklist bluetooth" | sudo dd of=/etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-bluetooth.conf"
[22:36] <Multbrelch> TJ- and reisio, ALL WORKS NOW: at the end I found out that userA was NOT in the group of userB! Probably, I forgot to write "sudo"  "usermod -a -G  ..."
[22:36] <laughingtiger> thanks TJ- I'll  try that.
[22:36] <reisio> Multbrelch: gj
[22:36] <Multbrelch> Anyway, one always has to verify the commands one is just executing ...
[22:37] <Multbrelch> Thx for great help, reisio and TJ-
[22:39] <MajorTom> I remember I used a lot pidgin in the past
[22:39] <MajorTom> it is a nice software
[22:39] <jp_porter> OK guys i have a big problem i open compiz and removed the borders and then my computer froze on me so i cant open any programes like compiz to put the borders back on can someone help me
[22:39] <reisio> jp_porter: you can't alt+F2?
[22:40] <Multbrelch> jp_porter, is it 13.04?
[22:40] <jp_porter> yes i can
[22:41] <Jeffrey_f> problem with Pidgin not minimizing to tray in Ubuntu 14.04 Gnome.  I don't see anything in preferences to fix this.  It used to minimize to the tray on hitting the [X] , now it just exits.  Any ideas??
[22:42] <jj995> is there a way to get /usr/bin/time -v data for the whole process tree instead of just the single process being run?
[22:43] <jj995> i have a python script that subprocesses or more C++ apps and I'd like to get total time and max resident memory
[22:43] <jp_porter> do you know th command that opens the window
[22:43] <MajorTom> try to hit near the [x] let's see what happens
[22:43] <jj995> jp_porter: "open ." ?
[22:43] <reisio> jp_porter: ccsm? ls /usr/bin/*cc*
[22:44] <reisio> probably in the menus, too
[22:44] <souri> Jeffrey_f: Is your pidgin attached to the messaging menu?
[22:44] <jp_porter> a command that launch's compz 's settings
[22:44] <Jeffrey_f> jp_porter: Yes, you mean the envelope icon?
[22:45] <Mafia> salam all o/
[22:45] <reisio> shalom
[22:46] <souri> Jeffrey_f, yes. if then also pidgin fails to respond, it is actually an issue with pidgin itself, pidgin does not use the telepathy service
[22:46] <Mafia> Some needs to be treated by Hitler
[22:46] <softballs> TJ-: evenin mate :) up late again ey?
[22:46] <jp_porter> is it compiz --replace
[22:47] <TJ-> softballs: :)
[22:47] <reisio> jp_porter: you can try it, but it might just reload the wm still without window borders
[22:47] <zyntux> what does compiz do exactly i uninstalled it because it was causing me errors
[22:47] <reisio> zyntux: hardware accelerated window manager
[22:47] <souri> Jeffrey_f, Ubuntu relies on the telepathy backend AFAIK for the way empathy works, you have to keep pidgin alive, someone please correct me if i'm wrong
[22:47] <reisio> zyntux: that is "pretty" window management
[22:47] <softballs> i moved the code to my aws server now
[22:48] <foofoobar> Hi. I just installed ubuntu after win7. Grub does not give me options upon booting, I'm directly booted into ubuntu.
[22:48] <softballs> you said something about github, should i look into that?
[22:48] <zyntux> thanks! guess i'll leave my pc w/o it seems alot better now
[22:48] <foofoobar> How can I tell grub that there is also a windows on this hard drive?
[22:48] <reisio> foofoobar: pastebin your grub.cfg
[22:49] <foofoobar> reisio, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7821977/
[22:50] <reisio> foofoobar: yup, no entry for windows
[22:51] <reisio> foofoobar: how about the output of sudo lsblk -f
[22:51] <TJ-> softballs: If you want to make it easy for others to help with the code. First learn the basics of source-code control in a local git repo for the merc code, then when you're ready 'push' it to github where others (like me!) can view, clone, and publish changes
[22:51] <foofoobar> reisio, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7821983/
[22:51] <softballs> TJ-: oh ok, looking at the git webpage right now, do you think there would be others interested in modifying its code?
[22:52] <souri> Hi, I need some help with the sony_laptop module's ALS based backlight dimming. I cannot get it working. I can adjust the backlight manually, also I can see the values in the embedded controller's registers changing, however I do not know how to figure out issue. Help?
[22:52] <TJ-> softballs: you'd be surprised what talent is out that that has nostalga for such code, or just want easy codebases to contribute/learn with
[22:53] <softballs> TJ-:  sounds cool, ill definitely check it out then :)
[22:53] <laughingtiger> it's interesting that xchat is a non-free software on windows.
[22:53] <reisio> foofoobar: see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2#Custom_Menu_Entries
[22:54] <TJ-> softballs: If you do I may hav a crack at adding that unicode support you spoke of :)
[22:55] <foofoobar> reisio, so I need to create a custom entry?
[22:55] <softballs> TJ-: sure thing :) do you want me to setup git right away for you to access it? or do you want to go with the code i sent you last night?
[22:55] <Jeffrey_f> souri: So what do you suggest?
[22:55] <TJ-> softballs: Let's take this private, as it isn't Ubuntu related now
[22:56] <laughingtiger> I'm getting crazy that libgnome-bluetooth8 can't be removed because network-gnome-manager will also be removed. is it safe to remove them all and reinstall network-manager?
[22:56] <reisio> foofoobar: that's the straightforward fix
[22:56] <reisio> foofoobar: there's a win7 example linked from the place I linked
[22:58] <SierraAR> I'm wanting to upgrade an ubuntu 12.04 server to 14.04, but when I run sudo do-release-upgrade, it's telling me no new release found. Is there something else I need to do to update?
[22:58] <laughingtiger> lol
[22:59] <foofoobar> reisio, Using "--set" rather than "--set=root" in GRUB 1..99 will result in an "error: no argument specified" message.
[22:59] <ObrienDave> SierraAR, wait for 14.04.1 due out soon
[22:59] <laughingtiger> SierraAR: maybe 14.04 is not a long-term support edition
[22:59] <foofoobar> so the example is old, correct?
[22:59] <souri> Jeffrey_f, my laptop (a vaio s13) has got an ambient light sensor, that in windows, it automatically uses to dim the backlight of the screen. In linux (ubuntu 14.04 kenel 3.13.0-30-generic) however the automatic dimming does not work
[22:59] <racho> SierraAR, check out you apt sources list
[22:59] <SierraAR> laughingtiger: 14.04 is a lts
[23:00] <SierraAR> racho: Anything in particular I need to look for? There's only 4 entries
[23:00] <souri> Jeffrey_f,  the values i see changing are the dump from the embedded controller's RAM. I've tried digging the source of the kernel module, i can't figure out how the module is listenning to the events from the embedded controller, i was hoping someone was familiar with the kernel code, acpi and the driver framework, so I cound figure this out
[23:01] <laughingtiger> SierraAR: really, well, then I've got the same issue with you because I tried to upgrade my system too about two days ago.
[23:01] <racho> SierraAR, i used to to run ubuntu servers and if you don't update right away the archive the repos to a new url
[23:01] <racho> *they
[23:01] <xtriz> what is the name of the channel of ubuntu mirror  ?
[23:02] <xtriz> it's ubuntu-mirrors
[23:02] <xtriz> :D
[23:02] <SierraAR> racho: Not entirely sure what you mean, but this is whats in /etc/apt/sources.list: http://pastebin.com/DBLbpqDK
[23:02] <daftykins> SierraAR: 14.04.1 is only a few days away now.
[23:02] <mac_nibblet> Anyone here with a brix iris pro ?
[23:02] <laughingtiger> SierraAR: I had successfully updated my system , only still it's 12.04.
[23:02] <mac_nibblet> mine keeps getting kernel panics
[23:03] <racho> SierraAR, yeah that was the conf file i think (sry running slackware now)...check the wiki if these are the right url targets
[23:04] <laughingtiger> I was just boring, sorry if I'd bothered anyone.
[23:05] <foofoobar> reisio, I ran a grub-install but the menu still does not show up. I'm directly booted to ubuntu
[23:05] <laughingtiger> life is really boring, isn't it?
[23:06] <_zoggy_> anyone  know what happen to the 12.10 packages?
[23:06] <reisio> laughingtiger: yours is
[23:06] <racho> foofoobar, have you changed your "timeout" param in grub.conf
[23:06] <reisio> _zoggy_: not much
[23:06] <laughingtiger> reisio: lol
[23:06] <_zoggy_> http://archive.ubuntu.com quantal/main
[23:06] <_zoggy_> no longer there
[23:06] <_zoggy_> W: Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/quantal/main/binary-i386/Packages  404  Not Found [IP: <IP_ADDRESS> 80]
[23:07] <eeee> !eol | _zoggy_
[23:07] <foofoobar> racho, no
[23:08] <Radzell> hi
[23:08] <ObrienDave> _zoggy_, http://old-releases.ubuntu.com quantal/main
[23:08] <Radzell> I have a macbook pro and he trackpad keep opening up the app switcher at random times.
[23:08] <_zoggy_> thats fine its end of life, would explain why no new packages.. but the repo was there last week
[23:08] <Radzell> How do I stop this
[23:08] <foofoobar> racho, there are a lot of "set timeouts" in my grub.cfg
[23:08] <foofoobar> Which one should I choose?
[23:08] <_zoggy_> ty
[23:09] <ObrienDave> _zoggy_, edit 'archive' to 'old-releases'
[23:09] <racho> foofoobar, i haven't configured my grub.conf since 2008 so i'm really rusty there..a google search will probably reveal most of the parts :)
[23:10] <MajorTom> I leave thanks for the help byee
[23:12] <foofoobar> racho, I looked under /etc/default/grub and found the timeout is set to 10
[23:13] <laughingtiger> China, North Korea, Iran, are the three evil power left on this planet. anyone agree with me?
[23:13] <reisio> laughingtiger: try #defocus
[23:13] <eeee> !ot | laughingtiger
[23:13] <zubir> foofoobar: if you're running grub2, you shouldn't be editing grub.cfg directly
[23:13] <foofoobar> zubir, okay.
[23:13] <laughingtiger> ok. I see.
[23:13] <foofoobar> I'm just looking for a way to enable dual booting with windows 7.
[23:14] <foofoobar> I added a win7 custom menu entry, now I want to show the menu.
[23:14] <zubir> ah okay
[23:14] <zubir> well
[23:14] <reisio> foofoobar: it doesn't show?
[23:14] <zubir> you should run "sudo update-grub" to generate a new grub.cfg based on the info in /etc/default/grub
[23:14] <foofoobar> oh, okay
[23:14] <theadmin> foofoobar: Have you ran "sudo update-grub"? It should detect other operating systems automatically.
[23:14] <foofoobar> I did sudo grub-install
[23:15] <foofoobar> I will reboot and try it, give me a second
[23:16] <foofoobar> Working, great :)
[23:16] <foofoobar> Thanks
[23:16] <zubir> awesome
[23:16] <zubir> there's a program called Grub Customizer as well
[23:17] <zubir> that gives you a nice GUI interface to customize your grub menu
[23:17] <foofoobar> zubir, yeah I installed it, but after executing it, my system crashed/rebootet
[23:18] <zubir> interesting
[23:18] <zubir> well, just stick with what you have then
[23:18] <geri> hi
[23:18] <geri> how can i replace all 0, in a file with 0,\t    \t = ta
[23:18] <geri> from the terminal
[23:18] <eeee> geri: man sed
[23:18] <geri> "0," -> "0\t"
[23:20] <geri> eeee: sed 's/0,/0<TAB>/g' input_file ??
[23:21] <skinux> Does Ubuntu have a Web-Based Management System, an equivelant of Windows' Management Instrumentation?
[23:22] <bprompt_> !webmin | skinux ?
[23:23] <skinux> I'm speaking of some sort of SQL-like service.
[23:23] <skinux> WebMin is only for managing web server related stuff like domains, hosting accounts, ftp users, etc.
[23:26] <geri> eeee: unescaped newline inside substitute pattern
[23:27] <howlingwolf> hello
[23:28] <howlingwolf> Anyone know how to remove a panel.
[23:28] <patrick_> hello?
[23:28] <howlingwolf> hi
[23:28] <patrick_> how come the linux channel doesnt allow to talk?
[23:28] <patrick_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8m0vnS-99o
[23:28] <zubir> geri: you could also try tr
[23:29] <zubir> something like
[23:29] <patrick_>  Nibiru The Denouement and Struggle for Control...
[23:29] <howlingwolf> anyone help me with my panel?
[23:29] <geri> zubir: ?
[23:30] <Th3U1timat3> Wait i used Webmin on Ubuntu before
[23:30] <zubir> cat input.txt | tr '0,' '0\t' > output.txt should work
[23:31] <zubir> It would turn a file that said "0, 0, 0," to "0      0      0      "
[23:31] <geri> zubir: tr: Illegal byte sequence
[23:31] <zubir> well
[23:31] <zubir> do man tr
[23:32] <zubir> it reads from stdin and writes to stdout
[23:33] <geri> it seems that a UTF-8 locale is causing Illegal byte sequence
[23:33] <geri> zubir:
[23:33] <zubir> ah
[23:33] <geri> how to address that?
[23:33] <zubir> no idea
[23:34] <zubir> oh
[23:34] <geri> hm
[23:35] <zubir> try "cat input | tr '0, ' '0,\t' > output
[23:35] <zubir> tr doesn't like it when the sets are of different sizes
[23:36] <bodhi_zazen> 666666m,,,,,,,,,,,,[[[...[[;[[[[[[[/,
[23:36] <bodhi_zazen> -
[23:37] <geri> zubir: same error
[23:38] <bodhi_zazen> [23:38] <bodhi_zazen> cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc
[23:40] <congo76> what desktop r u guys using in ubuntu? I keep jumping around, don't care for unity
[23:40] <bprompt_> hmm
[23:40] <bprompt_> congo76:   I use kde for dm, and lxde for wm
[23:40] <racho> congo76, xfce when i want work done, gnome for showing off
[23:41] <congo76> I was using xfce but the logout buttons don't work anymore. need to research
[23:41] <congo76> been taking gnome (metacity) for a spin this weekend
[23:42] <congo76> @bprompt I haven't used kde since the 90s
[23:43] <bprompt_> hehe
[23:43] <bprompt_> I"ve been using kde since the 90's =P
[23:44] <congo76> i used to use in on redhat
[23:45] <bprompt_> I run many kde apps, thus, I also run gtk ones, but I run more kde ones......though I used to have gnome and kde both installed and ran either...back in SuSE
[23:45] <congo76> how is it on resources?
[23:46] <zubir> geri: yeah idk then
[23:46] <sqph> Hi. Just wondering: will there be google play store or future Ubuntu phones?
[23:46] <zubir> I'm running Mint so I'm using Cinnamon, it's pretty nice
[23:46] <bprompt_> congo76:   these days... lite, depends on specs...... I mean..  I do not run "kwin" the kde default window manager, I run lxde's, and that one is very light
[23:47] <d0n0v6n> i love xfce
[23:47] <racho> xfce is gnome sane
[23:47] <racho> and i used to run gnome for 10 years
[23:47] <bprompt_> used to run xfce also back in SuSE 9.2, liked it too
[23:49] <congo76> xfce is a nice one on the resources. I'm running on a 5 yr old Dell laptop w 3GB of Ram and onboard video card, Ubuntu 14.04 seemed to slow things down a bit so I started looking for less intense window managers
[23:50] <d0n0v6n> i am running it on a thinkpad x201.
[23:50] <renebarbosa> congo76, try Lubuntu :)
[23:50] <Shardvexz> congo76: you're on irc from minecraft? cool man
[23:50] <racho> congo76, it's because of compiz....man that thing is a CPU hog
[23:51] <racho> the amount of events it sends to X is astounding
[23:51] <congo76> @Shardvexz, no I'm in Linux. @rancho yeah you're right, that's why I switched to metacity 2D
[23:52] <bprompt_> congo76:    depends on a variaty of things you know... I ran kde with lxde in kubuntu 12.04 with 4gbs of ram... my machine was likely older than 5years. and it ran smooth.... then again, I had it on an SSD and that makes a huge difference
[23:52] <byte> n8
[23:52] <patrick_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTAx9hFbBxk&list=UUdMWRr3LoOPDbTmnH_go_3Q
[23:52] <congo76> bprompt: i'm still on a traditional hard drive :(
[23:53] <congo76> renebarbosa: thanks, might do that
[23:54] <bprompt_> congo76:   has ran well for me... some folks when they refer to slow... they might be referring to the "kwin" windows manager and the plasma framework...... just like folks referring to slow ubuntu may just be referring to unity or compiz... but you can just use another window manager and that'd do it
[23:55] <congo76> I'm a little hesitant to try any more desktops until i can figure out why my machine is booting to the command prompt instead of the login screen. uninstalled e17, it would blowup on login
[23:55] <racho> what is the time frame for ubuntu to transition to systemd?
[23:55] <RainMan28> hi everyone, I am trying to get a cron job to run, but it is just failing and I am trying to see its output via > /tmp/output.log >2&1 but no file is created
[23:56] <zubir> fuck compiz
[23:56] <eeee> RainMan28: i could be wrong, but check /var/log/syslog for hints
[23:57] <IdleOne> zubir: no swearing please
[23:57] <RainMan28> eeee: you're right
[23:58] <RainMan28> eeee: I'm seeing this: http://pastebin.com/HHEz3D08  any tips? thank you
[23:58] <laspahr> hmmm.. any clue why docky keeps closing? /:
[23:58] <RainMan28> eeee: my cron file is called lightswitch
[23:59] <racho> RainMan28, well obviously you have a syntax error
[23:59] <zubir> nah broe
[23:59] <laspahr> just logged into my computer after letting it sit locked (lid shut but all it does is lock), and docky wasn't opened


[01:25] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  fix InternalHTTPLayer (unbreaks supermirror-pull-list.txt) (r1812: David Allouche)
[01:59] <Seveas> doesn't basic authentication work anymore?
[02:32] <lifeless> ddaa: you are seeing the canonical revision history now
[03:00] <mpt> Goooooooooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[06:30] <stub> lifeless: So why did David's patch land with a rev no a few thousand less than expected, and should I be scared since he needs it cherry picked into production?
[06:43] <lifeless> stub: bzr normalises the revision history now.
[06:43] <lifeless> stub: let me check
[06:49] <lifeless> stub: looks ok so far
[06:49] <lifeless> checking the way-old-stuff now
[06:50] <stub> Ok. So it is safe for people to merge as normal as long as they use new-revnos where necessary.
[06:50] <stub> Is the history normalization a one off, or will the numbers continue to change on occasion?
[06:57] <lifeless> at the moment it happens during push and pull.
[06:58] <lifeless> revno: 1 looks correct.
[07:01] <lifeless> it will probably nbounce around a bit when we merge in all the history
[07:02] <stub> This change will make documenting cherry picks difficult - saying 'Merge r666 from foo' is no longer useful. A unique, unchanging id might be necessary to support the workflow (?).
[07:04] <stub> Although 'Merge<EMAIL_ADDRESS>would be a bit sucky ;)
[07:06] <stub> And hopefully revnos won't change between a cherry pick request being requested and being done (or for that matter, between me entering a merge command and the merge actually starting)
[07:08] <stub> Heh.... don't push bound branches ;)
[07:08] <stub> 11:57:56~/src/dropbear $ bzr commit
[07:08] <stub> bzr: ERROR: Cannot commit to branch BzrBranch5(u'/home/stub/src/dropbear/'). It is bound to BzrBranch5('sftp://goanna/home/z/zen/archives/dns/dropbear/'), which is bound to sftp://goanna/home/z/zen/archives/dns/dropbear/.
[07:13] <stub> mpt: Create a fresh branch from rocketfuel-built/launchpad and merge your changes into that. It is a lot faster than the other way around if you won't need to revert individual commits from before.
[07:27] <stub> bug 40486
[07:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40486 in bzr "normalizing history causes cherry picking workflow problems" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40486
[07:28] <lifeless> stub: log --show-ids
[07:28] <lifeless> stub: you rsync pushed didn't you.
[07:29] <stub> The bound branch? Yes. I'll add that to the bug report.
[07:30] <lifeless> ah, I know why the history has jumped around
[07:30] <lifeless> the parent-ids are not ordered properly for some revisions
[07:31] <lifeless> I'll figure it out, then they will stabilise again
[07:32] <lifeless> stub: revids have never been useful : bzr supports 'uncommit'
[07:32] <jamesh> mpt: "pull --overwrite" into a new rocketfuel branch should also avoid the reconcile
[07:32] <lifeless> jamesh: nope
[07:32] <jamesh> lifeless: oh?
[07:32] <lifeless> pull --overwrite will still reconcile
[07:32] <stub> Yes. I'm not sure of the best solution, but it needs to be thought about when bzr wants to support cherry picking properly
[07:33] <jamesh> lifeless: I thought merge and pull pulled new information into the repository in essentially the same way
[07:33] <lifeless> jamesh: they do
[07:34] <lifeless> jamesh: thats why pull --overwrite will do a reconcile
[07:34] <stub> uncommit you are shooting yourself in the foot. revnos changing for reasons not your fault could be thought of as bzr shooting you in the foot ;)
[07:35] <jamesh> lifeless: stub was suggesting creating a new branch from rocketfuel-built and then merging into that.  I was suggesting creating a new branch from rocketfuel-built and then using "pull --overwrite" to pull data into it
[07:35] <jamesh> lifeless: I'd expect either both to be fast or both to be slow
[07:35] <lifeless> jamesh: both the suggested merge and pull will trigger a reconcile or possibly even global reweaving
[07:35] <lifeless> because the databases are inconsistent with each other
[07:36] <jamesh> okay
[07:40] <stub> The merge approach worked for myself and carlos, saving a day or threes merge time
[07:41] <jamesh> I guess the reconcile is quicker in one direction than the other
[07:42] <stub> lifeless: Something else is odd. I've got a cherry pick request for r1812 from ddaa, but it doesn't exist in rocketfuel/launchpad/devel on balleny
[07:42] <stub> (unless the log output is broken)
[07:43] <stub> lifeless: Emails were sent out about that rev
[07:44] <lifeless> stub: yes I'm looking into the issue
[07:44] <lifeless> fwiw
[07:45] <stub> ok. I'll grab some lunch. Worst case I'll get ddaa to give me a diff when he is online.
[07:45] <lifeless> hmm, not sure where his commit hath gone.
[07:46] <stub> pqm is still busy doing stuff
[07:47] <stub> webui says it is still dealing with ddaa's patch
[07:47] <lifeless> heh
[07:47] <lifeless> indeed it is
[07:47] <lifeless> lets see
[07:48] <stub> 1.6gb resident.... regression?
[07:48] <lifeless> nope, thats the knit conversion
[07:48] <lifeless> needs some tuning
[07:49] <lifeless> 30129 is pqm
[07:49] <stub> We can do it on carbon if ram is a problem ;)
[07:49] <lifeless> whats carbon ?
[07:49] <stub> jubany's sister
[07:49] <stub> 32GB ram
[07:49] <stub> Although I think elmo has stolen it for the beta release
[07:50] <lifeless> nice
[07:50] <lifeless> test database server?
[07:50] <stub> (hell - we could use jubany. I havn't seen it go about 10% CPU yet)
[07:50] <stub> lifeless: I want to set it up as a replica. I'll be testing with staging first.
[07:51] <lifeless> ah, f'course
[07:54] <stub> heh... emperor is idle :)
[07:54] <stub> New pqm box?
[07:54] <lifeless> nah, overkill. want that for playing quake on
[07:54] <stub> (actually... probably slower due to slower cpus...)
[07:55] <lifeless> ah, fckin, bzr had a read lock on the launchpad branch. hang on
[08:05] <lifeless> dang
[08:05] <lifeless> I killed the wrong process. ddaa's patch needs to go through again
[08:05] <stub> sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/home/warthogs/archives/david/launchpad//smallfixes/
[08:06] <stub> You want to send it through?
[08:06] <lifeless> yup
[08:21] <lifeless> stub: when you get back, can you please update the related product for https://launchpad.net/bounties/breezecom-pro-11-sa-pcr/+admin to be linux-source/linux/something like that ?
[08:21] <mpool> ubuntu, anyhow
[08:38] <lifeless> mpt_: how does one add milestones ?
[08:44] <jamesh> lifeless: productseries page
[08:44] <jamesh> "add milestone" in overview menu
[08:44] <lifeless> yeah, just found it
[08:47] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  fix InternalHTTPLayer (unbreaks supermirror-pull-list.txt) (r1812: David Allouche)
[08:47] <mpool> that is a bit hard to discover
[08:47] <lifeless> 'bit' :)
[08:48] <mpool> is there a public faq?
[08:48] <stub> 0 dollar bounty? Hmm...
[08:51] <mpool> about how to use launchpad, e.g. "how the hell do i add a milestone"
[08:51] <jamesh> mpool: there is a link down the bottom of every page in launchpad, but it is currently cut off due to a zope bug
[08:51] <mpool> :-)
[08:51] <jamesh> mpool: https://launchpad.net/faq
[08:54] <stub> mpool: Ideally stuff that isn't discoverable should be opened as bugs - mpt's goal is we shouldn't need an faq or manual at all.
[08:55] <stub> (although faq is good until we get there...)
[08:55] <mpool> even the human nipple has an faq :-)
[08:56] <mpool> but it's a good goal
[08:56] <stub> The human nipple is put to non-obvious uses though, so that is understandable ;)
[08:56] <mpool> jamesh: thanks; i assume that's only editable by developers?
[08:56] <jamesh> mpool: yeah.
[08:56] <jamesh> it is a page template in the launchpad tree
[08:59] <carlos> morning
[09:04] <lifeless> which of severity and priority did we keep ?
[09:05] <mpool> i added bug #40497
[09:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40497 in launchpad "very hard to find out how to add a milestone" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40497
[09:42] <SteveA> mpt_: hello
[09:52] <lifeless> bug *
[09:52] <lifeless> mpt__: stevea says hello to mpt_
[10:00] <carlos> lifeless: is there anything wrong with rocketfuel's launchpad?
[10:00] <carlos> lifeless: lattest commits have lower revision numbers than yesterday
[10:00] <lifeless> carlos: yes, thats a quirk in bzr I'm looking into
[10:00] <carlos> ok
[10:01] <lifeless> we normalised the revision numbers , its nothing that will break you
[10:01] <lifeless> no data loss
[10:25] <carlos> ok
[10:27] <mpt__> mpool, where's the Nipple FAQ? :-)
[10:27] <mpool> why do you need it? :-)
[10:27] <mpt> I'm just questioning your assertion that it exists
[10:27] <mpool> Results 1 - 10 of about 3,250,000 for nipple faq
[10:28] <mpt> logical fallacy: argument from google
[10:28] <SteveA> mpt: hello
[10:28] <mpt> I don't mind the existence of a FAQ, but it's *completely* backwards that it should be developers maintaining it
[10:28] <mpool> i think this is the canonical faq: http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_093.html
[10:28] <mpt> hi SteveA
[10:28] <mpool> hi SteveA
[10:29] <SteveA> mpt: i /msged you as mpt_
[10:29] <SteveA> i'll do it again
[10:29] <SteveA> hi mpool
[10:31] <lifeless> SteveA: evil evil man
[10:46] <SteveA> jamesh: around?
[11:04] <jamesh> SteveA: yeah
[11:04] <SteveA> hi jamesh
[11:05] <SteveA> do you have time for a skype call?
[11:05] <jamesh> okay.  I'll fire it up
[11:05] <SteveA> i'd like to catch up with what's been happening, interesting technical issues etc.
[11:23] <jamesh> SteveA: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+spec/error-report-management-for-scripts
[11:39] <stub> jamesh: Are you replacing the existing log-exceptions-to-the-librarian code?
[11:54] <SteveA> stub: right now, that's still a braindump
[11:54] <SteveA> james and i were going to talk about what to do with it sometime next week
[11:55] <jamesh> stub: the plan is to provide some infrastructure for scripts to be able to generate oops reports.  It would be a replacement for the log exceptions to librarian code in the scripts that used it
[11:55] <stub> It was flagged as started I thought
[11:55] <SteveA> i'd like all our warnings, soft timeouts, errors and stuff to come into the same oops infrastructure
[11:55] <SteveA> so that we can plug it into the same QA processes
[11:55] <jamesh> I didn't set it to started
[11:56] <stub> The librarian stuff was just a hack anyway to save my mailbox from rosetta's DOS attacks
[12:34] <Keybuk> Launchpad has suddenly lost its monospace-ness for the text entry box
[12:34] <Keybuk> is that a style bug, or a firefox bug?
[12:39] <Keybuk>   font-family: sans-serif;
[12:39] <Keybuk>   font-family: caption;
[12:39] <Keybuk> iz style bug
[12:39] <mpt> Keybuk, suddenly? It's been like that for six months or so
[12:39] <BjornT> fwiw, in Opera the text entry boxes still use a monospace font
[12:39] <Keybuk> mpt: new firefox or pango upload may have changed the font that it ended up with
[12:40] <Keybuk> having two font-family declarations is a bug though, no?
[12:40] <mpt> No, because some browsers don't support "caption"
[12:40] <mpt> (which is CSS2-ese for "whatever font your native GUI uses")
[12:41] <mpt> So the idea is to use caption if the browser knows how to implement it, or sans-serif if it doesn't
[12:41] <Keybuk> it's picked a serif font which is nothing like what my GUI uses
[12:41] <mpt> so it does
[12:41] <mpt> That would be a bug in Firefox, then
[12:41] <stub> bug comments are having whitespace chomped too
[12:42] <mpt> hmmmmm
[12:42] <mpt> data:text/html,
Foo works as expected
[12:42] <mpt> so, it's a Launchpad bug
[12:44] <mpt> no, DOM Inspector says "caption" for Computed Style
[12:44] <mpt> so it's a Firefox bug
[12:50] <mpt> The CSS2 UI module is the embodiment of dodginess
[12:57] <carlos> stub: hi, did you executed the migration script with the r1811 (was r3488) cherrypick ?
[01:06] <mpool> i just had a nice session with malone - thanks to all responsible
[01:06] <mpool> and goodnight
[01:09] <mpool> on which note Epiphany finally collapses...
[01:12] <lifeless> mpt: discussioon in #ubuntu-devel about firefox and images :0
[01:14] <mdz> kiko: X-Launchpad-Bug seems to contain priority, but not the more useful severity.  I assume this will be a non-issue when priority goes away?
[01:23] <SteveA> mpt: you should be able to write to ~stevea/public_html/menus-plan.txt on people.ubuntu.com
[01:23] <SteveA> please check this
[01:24] <SteveA> kiko is at FISL, so may not read irc today
[01:24] <SteveA> mdz: we should have importance there, and we should be doing that shortly.
[01:27] <mdz> oh, hi SteveA
[01:27] <mdz> I am unaccustomed to overlapping hours with you ;-)
[01:49] <Keybuk> hmm
[01:49] <Keybuk> why is the Wiki so much slower to save again?
[02:01] <mpt> mdz, dang, I was lazy and just deleted priority ... I'll add importance
[02:01] <lifeless> dude, land what you have !
[02:01] <lifeless> then add another much smaller patch for incremental tweaks
[02:05] <mdz> mpt: I agree with lifeless; it's not critical for landing it
[02:08] <mpt> ok
[02:08] <mpt> for example, the bug icons are still be colored by priority, which will need changing, but I've XXXed that
[02:09] <lifeless> mpt: release early, release often
[02:09] <mdz> mpt: have you given a heads-up to the distro team about this change?
[02:09] <mdz> given it's heading for production
[02:10] <mdz> in fact, malone is so visible that the larger community should probably be notified
[02:14] <mpt> mdz, that's on my to-do list as soon as the branch lands in rocketfuel
[02:14] <mpt> which will give people about a week's notice
[02:14] <mpt> furthermore, if people try to use priority or severity by e-mail, they get an explanatory message about importance and its values
[02:14] <mpt> in reponse.
[02:14] <mpt> +s
[02:15] <lifeless> mpt: why has it not landed though? you got +1.
[02:15] <SteveA> email about "importance and values"
[02:15] <SteveA> sounds more like a lecture in morals
[02:16] <mpt> lifeless, because many new occurrences of severity and priority were introduced recently and I haven't finished fixing them all
[02:17] <mpt> that's why I was considering getting another review, not just because of X-Launchpad-Bug!
[02:17] <BjornT> SteveA: care to take a look at https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/file8q6KsL.html? it fixes bug 40329
[02:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40329 in launchpad "The wrong encoding is chosen if '*' is in the Accept-Charset header, but 'utf-8' isn't" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40329
[02:18] <SteveA> BjornT: yes, and it is still the correct URL even with the ? on the end :-)
[02:18] <lifeless> mpt: ah. yes, ok.
[02:19] <lifeless> SteveA: btw, us leaving priority in the database and code really concerns me. I understand mark has set a mandate for it, but I'd like us to consider putting some policy in place
[02:19] <SteveA> leaving priority in there was news to me when i glanced at the spec today
[02:20] <SteveA> i don't see a point in the data remaining, because it will be out of date in a short time
[02:20] <SteveA> and i don't see a point in the code remaining, as it will be untested, and unused
[02:20] <SteveA> and so will just be decoy code
[02:23] <lifeless> these are all thngs that concern me
[02:24] <lifeless> I don't consider my role inside the lp team sufficient to headbutt Mark on this, not after it was apparently decided previously.
[02:24] <lifeless> thats why I'm telling you;)
[02:24] <Max_Littlemore> Hiya, just joined due to a slashdot earlier. I'm really interested in RT audio and have a few ideas (although nothing prepared).
[02:25] <Max_Littlemore> ... sorry didn't mean to hit enter yet.... :-[ newbie
[02:26] <lifeless> Max_Littlemore: rt audio ?
[02:26] <mpt> Max_Littlemore, if you mean you're interested in real-time audio development for Ubuntu, try #ubuntu-devel
[02:26] <mpt> This channel is about Launchpad
[02:29] <Max_Littlemore> What is LaunchPad? I use sarge at home and wXP at work... thanks mpt, like i said, i got this from trying to join a furum that wa linked to from /. - yes rt audio - let us all out mac the mac!
[02:30] <SteveA> lifeless: check your email.
[02:30] <lifeless> Re: Bug#363598: udev should conflict with ifrename ?
[02:31] <lifeless> danke
[02:32] <mpt> and I was halfway through explaining what Launchpad was, too
[02:36] <jordi> https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/40550
[02:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40550 in rosetta "Further filtering options for the Queue" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[02:36] <jordi> cothere
[02:36] <jordi> carlos: there
[02:37] <carlos> jordi: cool, thanks
[02:44] <SteveA> BjornT: looks good
[02:45] <BjornT> thanks
[02:45] <SteveA> BjornT: my only comment, kinda hypothetical, is that we might have any preferred charset, not only utf-8
[02:45] <SteveA> i can imagine favouring utf-16 for sites based in the east, for example
[02:46] <SteveA> but then again, maybe yagni
[02:48] <BjornT> SteveA: i know. the adapter that i modified does prefer utf-8, so i'd say my fix is correct. i would say that the current design as how the encoding is chosen is kind of broken, but it works for most cases, and i don't feel like spending time on that.
[02:48] <SteveA> fine
[06:43] <carlos> have a good weekend!!! see you on Tuesday!!
[06:56] <ohoel> hm, I bet this is the right place to ask; is there an ETA on fresh langpacks hitting the archives?
[07:01] <WaterSevenUb> (Ideally that should be calendarized even during this cycle while monthly or weekly langpacks are not streamlined.... curious about the answer too anyway)
[07:02] <ohoel> until search hits rosetta, it's hard to verify release-ready translations without regular updates
[07:02] <WaterSevenUb> yeah, I totally agree.
[07:03] <ohoel> I know I've got the gnome ones right, but rosetta tends to introduce some "original" translations to replace mine ;)
[07:04] <ohoel> or rather, rosetta users tend to
[07:04] <WaterSevenUb> yes, true :)
[07:05] <WaterSevenUb> regular updates are great for testing.
[07:05] <ohoel> mmh, I almost feel like a troll atm :p
[08:14] <bradb> stub: ping
[08:15] <bradb> stub: just double-checking: bug searches not matching on terms like "foo.bar" is bug 29227, right?
[08:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29227 in malone "Searching for "pmu" doesn't find "/dev/pmu"" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29227
[08:26] <SteveA> bradb: hello
[08:26] <bradb> SteveA: hi
[08:26] <SteveA> bradb: i don't think stub will be around until next week
[08:26] <SteveA> i wanted to ask, how's the "priority + severity -> importance" branch going?
[08:26] <bradb> SteveA: you'd have to ask mpt
[08:26] <SteveA> has it landed yet?  i gather mpt is working on at least part of it
[08:26] <SteveA> okay, i'll mail mpt
[09:01] <bradb> salgado: I responded to both of your code reviews today. Might you have time to take a look?
[09:01] <ddaa> is that a problem with me, or did other people notice that rocketfuel-built is no longer updated?
[09:02] <ddaa> anyone knows what's going on?
[09:07] <mdke> i just tried to download a source tarball from launchpad for ubuntu-docs version 6.04.7
[09:07] <mdke> I downloaded and untarred it, and found that it was 6.04.6
[09:08] <mdke> presumably because .7 hasn't built yet, or been published or something
[09:08] <mdke> is this a known bug?
[09:11] <mdke> oh no, perhaps it is .7, the tarred folder is just called .6
[09:15] <nick1> hi, i have a question, on a URL such as https://launchpad.net/specs, what does the blue (i) mean on the second specification down?
[09:17] <nick1> nevermind, it denotes it as informational only, it doesn't say
[09:17] <SteveA> nick1: the (i) Undefined
[09:17] <kiko_> hello there
[09:17] <nick1> oh
[09:17] <nick1> thanks SteveA
[09:17] <SteveA> is saying that the spec isn't linked to a full specification
[09:18] <SteveA> that part of the UI could be improved to say that explicitly
[09:18] <SteveA> so i'm not surprised it was confusing
[09:18] <SteveA> hmm
[09:18] <nick1> okay, i'll file a bug
[09:18] <SteveA> or maybe i'm wrong
[09:18] <SteveA> because some that do link to specs also have (i) undefined
[09:18] <SteveA> nick1: please file a bug to say that it is confusing
[09:18] <SteveA> on the "blueprint" product
[09:19] <SteveA> and we'll check the source code and unconfuse it
[09:19] <SteveA> thanks!
[09:19] <nick1> i think it means informational only, cos i remember ticking that box, thanks, i will file a bug
[09:19] <SteveA> i guess it is the priority
[09:19] <SteveA> if you look at the spec's page, then the priority says "undefined"
[09:20] <SteveA> the (i) might mean "informational" as you point out
[09:20] <SteveA> so, i guess i was wrong, the (i) and the "undefined" aren't linked -- they are two distinct pieces of information
[09:20] <SteveA> if the (i) had a nice pop-up image title, that would help
[09:21] <nick1> yeah
[09:21] <nick1> okay, im filing it now
[09:27] <nick1> SteveA: https://launchpad.net/products/blueprint/+bug/40631
[09:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40631 in blueprint "What does the ( i ) mean" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[09:27] <nick1> wow
[09:27] <SteveA> thanks
[09:27] <SteveA> Seveas wrote Ubugtu.
[09:28] <nick1> its pretty cool
[09:28] <nick1> a good idea
[09:30] <SteveA> nick1: i assigned mpt to fix it
[09:30] <nick1> okay thanks
[09:31] <nick1> i'v not used launchpad in a while, its the 3rd one i'v reported today :/
[09:32] <nick1> infact, maybe all images should have alt/titles, its in the W3C
[09:36] <bradb> salgado: What do you mean by "use another binarypackagename,
[09:36] <bradb> workarounding the bug."?
[09:37] <bradb> BP is added to the description, and the description is currently not properly searched for search terms with dots in them, e.g. "package-name.1.2.3" won't find bugs that have that term in the description, because of the bug assigned to stub.
[09:38] <salgado> bradb, replace 'linux-2.6.12' on "'field.packagename': 'linux-2.6.12'" with another packagename that doesn't contain dots
[09:39] <bradb> ah, i see
[09:45] <bradb> salgado: So, I specifically chose that package because it conveniently has a bin pkg name different from its src pkg name, so that I can be sure Malone is putting the right values in the right places. Since the code in question's only purpose is to get me the BugTask I just created (i.e. it's not testing the search, because that's tested elsewhere), how about just:
[09:45] <bradb>     >>> search_params = BugTaskSearchParams(user=current_user)
[09:45] <bradb>     >>> latest_ubuntu_bugtask = ubuntu.searchTasks(
[09:45] <bradb> ?
[09:45] <bradb>     ...     search_params)[-1]
[09:47] <bradb> oh, with an orderby="id" thrown in for good measure.
[09:47] <salgado> bradb, the reason why I asked for that change was to make sure a search for the binarypackagename would return that bugtask
[09:50] <bradb> Hm, the only way to usefully do that, I think, is to add more publishing records to soyuz. :/
[09:50] <bradb> And more SPs/BPs into the system, with SPs that have BPs that have names different from their SP.
[09:52] <bradb> Because the search matches on targetname already (as tested in bugtask.txt), so if targetname == bp name, nothing is really being tested.
[09:54] <bradb> It's just a word plopped into the description though, and we already test that it is being plopped into the description, and we already test searching the description, IYSWIM
[09:54] <salgado> I see
[09:55] <salgado> I know it's not trivial to add new sampledata on that area, so I think you can merge it
[09:55] <salgado> but leave the search_params as it is
[09:55] <bradb> ok, will do, thanks
[09:56] <bradb> next thing I have to do here is email stub about the data migration we'll need to do now that BP is getting blow away, but I wanted to have the r= before going to that step
[10:30] <ddaa> SteveA: ping
[10:30] <SteveA> ddaa: hi
[10:31] <doko> good evening
[10:31] <siretart> hi doko
[10:31] <doko> are build logs available outside the librarian, so that I can grep over all build logs?
[10:32] <bradb> salgado: Think you'll have a chance to respond to the other review response today?
[10:38] <salgado> bradb, I don't think so. I'm leaving soon and have some stuff to finish here.  I'll answer it on monday for sure
[10:40] <bradb> ok, no worries, thanks
[10:49] <sits> hi
[10:50] <sits> I have a couple of launchpad observations
[10:51] <bradb> sits: Not many devs are around right now.
[10:51] <sits> I know talk is cheap but I'm hoping to offer some partial solutions
[10:51] <bradb> I'd suggest mailing launchpad-users@
[10:51] <sits> mmm but it's not on GMANE at the moment
[10:52] <sits> and following lists on webmail is painful
[10:52] <bradb> or you can use malone to file your issues as bug reports.
[10:53] <sits> oh I'm well aware of malone
[10:53] <sits> that's what I was going to talk about
[10:53] <bradb> oh, well, in that case, I'm around, so you're in luck :P
[10:54] <sits> around 5-6 years ago I spent a lot of time using the Mozilla bugzilla
[10:54] <sits> (about the same time mpt was active there actually)
[10:54] <sits> at some point, someone introduced the unconfirmed flag
[10:54] <sits> now, from a developer perspective the unconfirmed flag is fantastic on a bug
[10:55] <sits> it means you can avoid looking at potentially spurious bugs
[10:55] <sits> unfortunately there's another side
[10:55] <sits> it means someone has to look at a bug and confirm it
[10:56] <sits> in the mozilla bugzilla it wasn't long before unconfirmed bugs ran rampant, outpacing the number of people looking at them
[10:56] <sits> frivolous bugs started turning up to
[10:57] <sits> vague things that couldn't easily be dismissed, requests for outlandish features
[10:57] <sits> there were bug drives to get the unconfirmed count down and these would work for a time but one off heroics don't last long
[10:58] <sits> anyway I think the unconfirmed status though good for devs is bad for the bug system unless you have some amazingly scalable frontline support staff willing to soak up the flack
[10:59] <sits> confirming bugs is boring repetitive thankless work and as your work gains popularity you only need more people to do it
[10:59] <sits> Reports are often awful
[11:00] <bradb> what's the alternative to bug triaging?
[11:00] <sits> bradb: hey I'm not finished yet
[11:00] <sits> bradb: but that's a good question which I don't have a good answer to. I don't think there is an alternative per se
[11:01] <sits> I think we need to leverage more of the people filing bugs and turn them into front line support people
[11:02] <sits> of course that's easy to say and difficult to do
[11:02] <bradb> sits: I think a lot of OSS projects attempt to do that. /me digs up a recent bug mpt filed
[11:02] <sits> bradb: oh ok...
[11:03] <sits> cor blimey
[11:03] <sits> mpt certainly knows how to file the bugs
[11:03] <bradb> bug 37926
[11:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37926 in malone "Manage expectations about newly-reported bugs" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37926
[11:03] <bradb> it's a subtle way of encouraging participation
[11:04] <sits> hmm low tech but subtle
[11:04] <sits> that's good
[11:05] <sits> dunno that it's wise to put an upper limit on there though
[11:05] <bradb> karma was also invented for this reason
[11:05] <sits> hmm
[11:05] <bradb> to reward people who contribute
[11:05] <sits> now that's an interesting one
[11:05] <sits> I have some karma but I don't know what it means
[11:06] <sits> do I have a lot or a little?
[11:06] <sits> can I use it to buy stuff?
[11:06] <sits> does it let me talk louder?
[11:06] <sits> does anyone besides me ever check it?
[11:06] <bradb> sits: Karma is still pretty vague.
[11:06] <sits> are there acts that decrease it?
[11:06] <sits> bradb: oh ok
[11:07] <sits> I mean one simple but offencive trick is to make a karma leaderboard
[11:07] <sits> this suckers the competitive into doing more
[11:07] <bradb> sits: we have one, actually
[11:08] <sits> once again I feel stupid for not knowing
[11:08] <bradb> sits: https://launchpad.net/
[11:08] <bradb> "Top contributors:"
[11:08] <sits> bradb: you certainly have a lot of patience
[11:08] <bradb> sits: Don't feel bad. Lots of people new and more experienced with LP have a hard time working out the UI.
[11:08] <sits> is there a longer one?
[11:09] <bradb> not that I'm aware of
[11:09] <sits> hmm
[11:09] <bradb> because the numbers have been a bit too silly to get too serious about it yet
[11:09] <sits> it's kind of disheartening to see someone with 100 times more karma. It's a big target to reach for
[11:10] <sits> well maybe 50
[11:10] <sits> I guess one thing I thought was that you could use your karma standing to draw more attention to your bugs
[11:11] <sits> this was based upon an idea that you submitted your machine's hardware
[11:11] <sits> so launchpad could periodically churn out 10 bugs that you could try and confirm that others might not be able to
[11:12] <sits> the problem is it would only be a matter of time before people started gaming the system
[11:12] <bradb> bug 3382 might interest you
[11:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 3382 in malone "Should be able to attach hardware database id to bugs" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3382
[11:12] <sits> ahem
[11:12] <sits> take a look at who filed that one...
[11:13] <bradb> ah
[11:13] <sits> at least I'm consistent...
[11:13] <bradb> indeed
[11:13] <sits> another little problem that keeps coming up are attachments
[11:14] <sits> it's absolute murder looking at bugs where people have posted the entirety of xorg.conf and dmesg into the body of the bug itself
[11:15] <sits> and yet asking people to use Add Attachment is itself not a great solution
[11:15] <sits> the other day someone outsmarted me by uploading the requested output as an openoffice.org writer file
[11:15] <sits> I can see just how it happened
[11:15] <sits> but it's hard to remember to say:
[11:16] <sits> "Please can you attach (using the Add Attachment link in the malone website) the output of the
[11:16] <sits> /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[11:16] <sits> file as a text file"
[11:16] <bradb> bug 32282 perhaps?
[11:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 32282 in malone "Try to reduce of the amount of LONG comments" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32282
[11:17] <sits> bradb: wow you ARE good
[11:17] <bradb> :)
[11:17] <sits> There needs to be a bradb bot
[11:17] <bradb> heh
[11:17] <sits> ok here's another one
[11:18] <sits> rather thornier
[11:18] <sits> what's to be done about bugs on binary products?
[11:18] <sits> I see that there are two sensible paths
[11:18] <sits> the SUSE let's get the binary producer on board to look at bugs filed in our bugzilla route
[11:19] <bradb> wait, what's a binary product?
[11:19] <sits> or the RH hardass you're binary only problem need to be taken directly to the producer of the binary
[11:19] <sits> bradb: where the source is not available
[11:19] <sits> e.g. acroread, nvidia binary driver etc.
[11:20] <sits> s/you're/your
[11:20] <bradb> sits: how does that work. is it like a binary package with no source package?
[11:20] <sits> bradb: precisely
[11:21] <bradb> hm
[11:21] <sits> if you go to the RH bugzilla with an nvidia binary driver problem they will point you at nvidia and the nvnews forum and promptly close your bug
[11:21] <sits> (this of course causes ill feeling and massive arguments but the bugs are always closed)
[11:21] <sits> in fact
[11:22] <sits> if your kernel is tainted at all and you have a kernel problem that can get the bug closed too
[11:22] <sits> it's brutal but it keeps the bug tracker clean and full of theoretically solvable bugs
[11:23] <sits> in fact there's another thing that can cause a bug to get closed quickly
[11:23] <sits> you get asked to take it upstream (e.g. a xorg problem) and then it is closed in the RH bugzilla
[11:24] <bradb> I'd have to discuss with the Ubuntu team what their support policy is for binary-only packages to learn more about how we can model it in Malone.
[11:24] <sits> it's quite aggressive but it does stop the bug count getting out of control because a lot of bugs are resolved the same blunt ways
[11:25] <sits> bradb: I'm just chucking stuff around
[11:25] <bradb> as a user, I know I'd hate to be told to go elsewhere.
[11:25] <sits> the SUSE way is they seem to have good ties with nvidia
[11:26] <sits> if I want to know if a new binary driver release is imminent or try to get hold of an NVIDIA engineer you can try filing there as they seem able to "call" NVIDIA people over to look at stuff
[11:26] <sits> compared to RH they are friendly to binary only vendors
[11:26] <sits> and appear to have the working relationships
[11:27] <sits> SUSE engineers sometimes look at problems involving binary drivers and try and resolve them too
[11:27] <sits> and they seem to be among the few people who will work on the nv OSS driver
[11:28] <bradb> I don't think Malone can do much about support team policy, only about being able to capture binary-only bugs at all.
[11:28] <sits> the problem is these binary bugs stack up
[11:28] <sits> and they can be hard to reduce into each other
[11:29] <sits> e.g. do you blame all weird lockups containing nvidia binary drivers on nvidia binary drivers?
[11:29] <sits> hey that's reminded me of something else
[11:30] <sits> (besides the fact that I'm recently unemployed : )
[11:30] <sits> the many bugzilla's have grown needinfo which has the useful feature of unsetting itself once a bug is replied to
[11:31] <sits> the RH bugzilla goes one further and also has needinfo_reporter which avoids the unsetting until the original reporter replies
[11:31] <sits> RH use this to resolve what seem to be called "Hit and Run" bug reports
[11:32] <sits> you set the flag and then after (say) 30 days of no response you assume the reporter isn't coming back
[11:32] <bradb> there's been some similar discussion about doing that in malone, bug 5786
[11:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 5786 in malone "NeedsInfo should be moved into a separate bug or bugtask flag" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5786
[11:32] <bradb> and bug 35344
[11:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35344 in malone "Automatic bug expirations" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35344
[11:33] <sits> ah excellent
[11:34] <sits> Mandriva used to engage in mass closures once per release cycle
[11:35] <sits> it's painful as a user but again it helps keep bug counts down
[11:35] <sits> oh and while I remember - it's hard to know whether I'm doing the right thing
[11:35] <sits> at the moment I am setting bugs to confirm when I too can reproduce the problem
[11:36] <sits> where I think a bug is a duplicate of another bug I add a comment saying I think that it is a dup of Bug #XYZ
[11:36] <sits> sometimes I just add a long comment if you touch upon an area I happen to have explorered
[11:37] <sits> quite often I just ask for dmesg/lspci/xorg.conf output to try and move the bug out of the Ubuntu product
[11:37] <sits> am I doing the right thing or am I making a nuisance out of myself?
[11:38] <sits> (also right now there's no easy way to find bugs you've commented on so I can follow up and see whether the things I thought were dups were later marked as dups etc. and self score)
[11:38] <sits> I use my browser's history to try and retrace my steps but it's not easy
[11:39] <bradb> well, with the perms as they currently are, Malone is suggesting that anybody who can confirm a bug should. if developers using Malone start complaining that this is too permissive, then we'll have to rethink the permissions.
[11:39] <sits> although whichever smart alec set the default number of Ubuntu bugs to be displayed to 75 magically got me looking at more bugs per day
[11:39] <bradb> the same could be said of marking a dup
[11:39] <sits> hmm
[11:40] <sits> (oh and thanks to whoever unshrank the bug list font size - you saved my eyesight!)
[11:40] <bradb> drive-by commenting when you think you have something to contribute seems ok to me, and will be made a little smoother once i fix bug 977 (which i started fixing today, actually)
[11:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 977 in malone "Commenting on bug should optionally subscribe you" [Major,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/977
[11:41] <sits> ah well that's close
[11:41] <sits> but not quite the same
[11:41] <sits> er let's see
[11:42] <sits> ok I can't work out how you make Ubugtu go. Which command do I need?
[11:43] <bradb> bug NNNN
[11:43] <sits> oh I see
[11:45] <sits> hmm I don't appear to have reported it
[11:45] <bradb> sits: do you think there's a need to distinguish bugs you've commented on vs. bugs you're subscribed to?
[11:45] <sits> I guess I should file a bug saying "not easy to find bugs you've added a comment on"
[11:46] <sits> yeah, I only want to subscribe to interesting bugs
[11:46] <sits> and I want the subscription list to me comparatively small
[11:46] <sits> with RH's over the top bugzilla I can do a query which says bring me up any bug I've commented in that has changed in the past 30 days
[11:47] <sits> so I can dip in out extremely casually in bug tracking
[11:47] <sits> that is probably a very weird use case though
[11:47] <bradb> bug 36060 is bringing us in that direction too
[11:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36060 in malone "Bug needs a date last updated column" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36060
[11:48] <bradb> it's another current priority for me
[11:52] <sits> dup identification is another massive area
[11:53] <sits> once upon a time Mandriva tried searching their bug db for words you typed into your bug and warning you which bugs looked similar
[11:53] <sits> it brought back an awful lot of false positives though
[11:55] <sits> however
[11:55] <sits> searching the dup list can be very interesting
[11:56] <sits> providing a dup is left in it's originally location it can often serve as a pointer to popular issues
[11:56] <sits> because people "misthink" in similar ways
[11:58] <bradb> bug 30307 has an interesting idea for searching dupes
[11:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30307 in malone "omit_dupes and searching" [Minor,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30307
[11:59] <bradb> on the reporting side, bug 37425 has an idea for how to deal with common misthinks
[11:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37425 in malone "Prevent duplicates by suggesting products/packages holding targets of many other duplicates" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37425
[12:04] <bradb> sits: I'm planning to head off now, but by all means, feel free to peruse Malone, report bugs, comment on issues that you have a particular interest in seeing fixed sooner rather than later, etc. Feedback is always welcome.