[06:21] <kilroy> Hello
[16:59] <kilroy> Hello
[17:00] <kwadroke> hi
[17:01] <kilroy> Lol. Didn't think anyone was home
[17:01] <kilroy> Looking for
[17:01] <kilroy> Help with an ubuntu question
[17:01] <kwadroke> I think most everyone is lurking
[17:01] <kwadroke> ok
[17:02] <kilroy> I just purchased 3 HP Proliant DL580 G2 servers. Each with 4x 3.0 Xeon's. The cpu's are pre-VT. What would be the best VM manager to use in Ubuntu Server? VMWare? VirtualBox?
[17:02] <kwadroke> either will work
[17:02] <kwadroke> if going with VMWare, I'd go with Server
[17:03] <kilroy> Does each allow assigning a VM to a dedicated CPU?
[17:03] <kwadroke> I think VMWare will, not sure about virtualbox
[17:03] <kilroy> Ok. I may put vnware server on one and play with it
[17:04] <kwadroke> checking VB now
[17:05] <kwadroke> not seeing anywhere to set what cpu to use in VB, but that doesn't mean it can't. Just don't know how
[17:05] <kwadroke> course you can always install both, and see which one you like
[17:05] <kwadroke> both are free
[17:06] <kilroy> Ok thx
[17:06] <kwadroke> qemu might be an option, but I'm not sure how performance stacks up against VMWare/Vitrualbox
[17:06] <kilroy> What part of AR you in?
[17:06] <kilroy> Ok
[17:06] <kwadroke> Conway
[17:06] <kilroy> I'm in Black Rock
[17:07] <kilroy> Heard of it?
[17:07] <kwadroke> no. googling it now
[17:07] <kilroy> Lol
[17:08] <kwadroke> ah NEA
[17:08] <kilroy> Gotta run. Thx for your help
[17:08] <kwadroke> that would be why
[17:08] <kilroy> Yeah
[17:08] <kwadroke> any time


[16:24] <Unit193> Anyone else used to use Google Reader?  What'd you switch to?
[16:29] <skellat> Unit193: I use the aggregator tool "rawdog" which is in the repos with a cron job on a remote server that runs twice per day and gives me a single HTML file with all the RSS dump for that period to review.  Works quite well for me though the dump file can be kinda long.
[16:32] <Unit193> Ah, I see.  It seems to have the whole article in there (which indicates you read most or all of them.)  I currently use newsbeuter sync'd to Google reader, but only visit the site to mark something as unread when I accidently open it. >_>
[16:41] <skellat> Unit193: My set up only updates twice per day.  Shortly after 12 noon and shortly after 8 PM.
[16:42] <skellat> I usually read those in conjunction with Opera as it handles bookmarking better than FF
[16:43] <skellat> FF does start to gag after a few too many bookmarks are in its queue and circulating via Sync
[16:43] <skellat> I tried using Thunderbird as an RSS reader but it was too cumbersome
[16:46] <skellat> Liferea was nice when del.icio.us handled bookmarks nicely but I've not found something nice to link it up with
[16:47] <skellat> My set up on rawdog just works for me.  It isn't the best but I've gotten used to it over time.  It has been in use for a couple years but the back-end was moved directly to the server only a few months ago.
[16:47]  * skellat has to run for family reunion type stuff
[17:24] <paultag> Unit193: newsblur is awesome.
[17:24] <paultag> Unit193: and f/oss
[17:25] <Unit193> "https://newsvi.be" kind of looked interesting, but right now Newsbeuter just has TinyTinyRSS, and I don't plan to host my own.
[17:25] <Unit193> paultag: Think they are working on nwsblur sync, actually.
[17:26] <paultag> Newsblur is just amazing.
[17:26] <paultag> and the dudes are super cool that hack on it.
[17:26] <paultag> I ♥ newsblur
[17:33] <Unit193> Eh...
[17:34] <Unit193> That ones interface doesn't seem to be my thing, I think I'm going to forgo online RSS feeds right now.
[17:40] <Darkwing> skellat: Ping
[17:42] <Unit193> Darkwing!  Hello.
[17:42] <Darkwing> HEY Unit193
[17:42] <Darkwing> :D
[17:42] <Darkwing> Hows life?
[17:42] <Unit193> paultag: It's called "The mutt of RSS" :D
[17:42] <Unit193> Darkwing: Well, I'm still alive, but can't hear (so well) in the right side. :/
[17:42] <Unit193> You?
[17:43] <Darkwing> Not bad, busy with my kids, I have them this summer and busy with Uni
[17:43] <paultag> Unit193: newsblur?
[17:44] <Unit193> Nah, what I use: http://newsbeuter.org/
[17:44] <jenni> [ Introduction ] - http://j.mp/19H11o5
[17:44] <Darkwing> Unit193: What happened?
[17:45] <Unit193> Darkwing: Not fully sure, but pretty sure it'll be back.
[17:45] <Darkwing> hmmz...
[17:46] <Unit193> Yeah, annoying as it's harder to understand people.  I'm too young for this. :P
[17:46] <Darkwing> How many Ubuntu people normally show for OLF?
[17:47] <Unit193> I still haven't been able to go yet. :/  He's looking for someone to sign off on it.
[17:49] <Darkwing> I was thinking of an UbuCon.
[17:49] <Darkwing> I helped put together two for SCALE in LA... They were the biggest success.
[17:51] <Darkwing> We had almost 300 people the second time.
[17:53] <Darkwing> Jono Bacon told me he was going to OLF, so, I figured he might be a draw if we can get him to do a talk there.
[19:05] <Unit193> https://reps.mozilla.org/u/Saberdragon65/ or https://reps.mozilla.org/u/treed593/ are as close as it gets.
[19:05] <jenni> [ Mozilla Reps - Profile of Saberdragon65 ] - http://j.mp/11UIyf6
[19:05] <jenni> [ Mozilla Reps - Profile of treed593 ] - http://j.mp/11UIyvt
[23:05] <skellat> Darkwing: PONG!
[23:18] <skellat> Darkwing: You've got mail


[03:57]  * joey168 is away: going out to catch some fresh air, be back soon
[03:57]  * joey168 is back (gone 00:00:06)
[03:57]  * joey168 is away: going out to catch some fresh air, be back soon
[04:31]  * benonsoftware doesn't like those dirty scripts


[01:16] <me4u> hello
[01:16] <me4u> could anyone help me solve this poroblem with the young theme
[01:21] <Burgundavia> me4u: the young theme?
[01:21] <HedgeMage> me4u:  Don't ask to ask, just ask -- if someone knows they will come out of the woodwork
[01:21] <HedgeMage> heya, Burgundavia
[02:05] <ari_stress> morning all :D
[02:17] <HedgeMage> hi ari_stress
[02:20] <ari_stress> wazzup HedgeMage
[02:20] <ari_stress> nice nickname
[02:21] <HedgeMage> thanks :)
[13:28] <santiago> i have ubuntu, why should i change to edubuntu
[13:31] <Bauer|> if it's just a desktop/home computer there is no reason. edubuntu is a TS-platform, designed especially for schools
[13:33] <santiago> i am a college student, has it someting special to offeo
[13:35] <Bauer|> edubuntu-server is a terminalserver. You can use very old computers as clients, since the server does most of the work. but if you are just talking about your personal computer, there should not be any reason for changing to edubuntu
[13:36] <santiago> thanks.
[13:47] <RichEd> Bauer|: I just missed santiago ... your response is not 100% ... edubuntu also has an education menu section, with a bunch of applications that are installed by default
[13:47] <RichEd> the apps are mainly geared at the moment to say 4-14 year old kids
[13:48] <RichEd> all apps are available from the add/remove from ubuntu as well ... or else a user can install edubuntu-desktop package on top of ubuntu
[13:49] <RichEd> so for a home PC used also by school age kids - edubuntu is a good option
[14:04] <Bauer|> ok, I did not think that his computer was used by kids, since he said he was a college student
[14:32] <Nubae> Hi, I read autologin has now been fixed for clients of 7.10... is this true? and so how...?
[14:45] <RichEd> bug #161794
[14:45] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 161794 in ltsp "autologin doesn't work" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/161794
[14:46] <Flosoft> hi
[14:46] <Flosoft> I have setup IPCop and Edubuntu
[14:46] <RichEd> Nubae: see " Francis Giraldeau
[14:46] <RichEd>  * new patch to prevent regression" on the page link above
[14:46] <Flosoft> IPCop connects to the current school network, and edubuntu is the new one :)
[14:47] <Flosoft> now I want to use the DHCP server from the IPCop
[14:47] <Nubae> cool thanks
[14:47] <Flosoft> not the Edubuntu one
[14:47] <Flosoft> how do I do that?
[14:47] <Flosoft> the Edubuntu Server has 2 Interfaces
[14:47] <Flosoft> I want to use LTSP & Co ... but I can set the records in IPCop
[14:48] <Flosoft> (PXE Boot)
[14:49] <RichEd> Flosoft: does this help ? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=402126
[14:51] <Flosoft> not really
[14:51] <Flosoft> Edubuntu runs a DHCP Server
[14:51] <Flosoft> the only question now is, how do I disable it on both interfaces?
[14:53] <RichEd> Flosoft: I'm not too sure ... ogra ^ any ideas ?
[14:55] <Flosoft> I just want to use IPCop as we'll also use it as a transparent proxy etc.
[14:55] <Flosoft> so it is easier to have everything what is linked in with the network on one machine
[14:55] <Flosoft> and then use Edubuntu just as LTSP Server
[14:55] <Flosoft> and PXE boot ....
[14:58] <Nubae> so just turn off dhcp
[14:58] <Flosoft> apt-get remove dhcp3-server?
[14:58] <Flosoft> won't that cause any problems with the LTSP environnement?
[14:58] <Nubae> no /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server stop
[14:58] <Nubae> no
[14:58] <Flosoft> so apt-get remove is possible too?
[14:59] <Nubae> no I wouldnt do that
[14:59] <Flosoft> hmm ok
[14:59] <Flosoft> but then also remove it from the boot?
[14:59] <Nubae> just stop it, next time the server restarts youll have to restart manually if you want
[14:59] <Flosoft> ah
[14:59] <Flosoft> so it won't restart on boot?
[14:59] <Nubae> well, to be sure take it out of rc
[15:00] <Flosoft> ok
[15:01] <Nubae> RichEd, the thread mentions something about a .deb package
[15:01] <Nubae> seems that applying the patch isn't that easy...
[15:01] <Nubae> file:///usr/share/packaging-guide/html/C/index.html -- cannot find this locally
[15:02] <RichEd> Nubae: well i'd suggest asking ogra ... or else popping over to #ltsp and asking there ... or maybe sbalneav will chip in with a comment from here ?
[15:04] <Nubae> yeah I'm in ltsp, but seems a bit dead right now
[15:04] <Nubae> :-)
[15:04]  * RichEd needs to head off for a while ... sorry Nubae and Flosoft ... I'm not very technical ... just trying to direct you ...
[15:04] <RichEd> failing help here ... send a mail to edubuntu-devel mailing list
[15:06] <Nubae> not urgent... just read there was a fix on the devel list so thought I'd find out more...
[15:07] <Flosoft> RichEd:  thanks anyway :) I think I have all I need for now :)
[15:25] <bddebian> Heya
[15:38] <sbalneav> Morning all
[15:38] <stgraber> hi sbalneav
[15:41] <sbalneav> stgraber: Hey!  Gimme two secs, I'll post a url for the pictures!
[15:43] <stgraber> cool :)
[15:43]  * stgraber has installed 4 Edubuntu desktops this afternoon + 4 to come in the next weeks (and we have 10-20 more orders waiting :))
[15:44] <sbalneav> It's been insane here the last month.  I've done next to no ltsp work, but I got all my work done before Xmas, so I can start getting back into the swing of it now.
[15:52] <stgraber> that's good news
[15:53] <stgraber> So you have finished upgrading everything to Gutsy ?
[15:53] <sbalneav> yup
[15:53] <sbalneav> When hardy comes out, I'll start tracking LTS around here.
[16:02] <sbalneav> stgraber: http://www.legalaid.mb.ca/photos.tar.bz
[16:02] <sbalneav> styx:/var/www# ls -la photos.tar.bz
[16:02] <sbalneav> -rw-r--r-- 1 sbalneav sbalneav 816306605 2007-12-13 09:03 photos.tar.bz
[16:02] <sbalneav> 816 megs :)
[16:03] <stgraber> sbalneav: downloading at 15kB/s, is that normal ?
[16:04] <sbalneav> yeah, our upstream sucks
[16:04] <stgraber> sbalneav: anyone else wants them or am I the only one ?
[16:05] <sbalneav> Only one so far.
[16:06] <stgraber> ok, I'm downloading through a server with 100Mb/s connection, so if someone wants them I just have to cp to my www directory
[17:42]  * lns wants to see pictures
[17:44] <lns> stgraber, if you can post the pics on your www server after you get them, that would be really cool, i'd love to see them..even though I'm  not sure what they are (but are assuming they're from the get together you all had)
[18:08] <juliux> hi all
[18:10] <UbuntuUser2> hello there
[18:10] <UbuntuUser2> Someone that can help me?
[18:11] <stgraber> lns: yes, it's the pics scott took at UDS
[18:11] <UbuntuUser2> someone that can tell me where can I find Intel drivers for UBUNTU ?
[18:12] <stgraber> UbuntuUser2: why would you need a driver on ubuntu ?
[18:13] <UbuntuUser2> I am installing ubuntu onto a new computer
[18:13] <UbuntuUser2> and the motherboard is an Intel D815EEA
[18:13] <UbuntuUser2> Do you know where can I find that driver?
[18:13] <stgraber> all "drivers" should be included by default
[18:13] <UbuntuUser2> it wasnt a linux machine
[18:13] <stgraber> you don't have to download and install drivers as you would do on Windows
[18:13] <UbuntuUser2> it was a windows
[18:55] <lns> stgraber, Linux has "drivers" (modules) that you can download for specific hardware, if the kernel doesn't have built-in support for it (or has inferior support)
[18:55] <lns> ATI, NVIDIA are known for their 'binary blob' drivers that, a lot of times, need to be downloaded and installed manually to get full hardware functionality
[18:57] <stgraber> lns: yes, right but for someone coming from Windows I think it's fair to tell him that Linux doesn't have "drivers" instead of starting to talk about modules, kernel, binary blob, ... :)
[18:58] <lns> stgraber, IMHO it's better to give them correct information ;)
[18:59] <lns> If they understand how drivers work in windows, they should be able to understand how they work in linux
[18:59] <lns> and if not, at least they don't go tell someone else "Linux doesn't have drivers"
[18:59] <johnny> most people don't..
[18:59] <johnny> they just know they are necessary :)
[18:59] <lns> right
[18:59] <lns> as they are necessary in linux ;)
[19:00] <johnny> most people don't want to know the details, they just want it to work :)
[19:00] <lns> right...but giving them false information isn't the best approach, either
[19:01] <lns> how about telling them "Linux should have intel drivers built-in" ...?
[19:01] <johnny> or .. linux has support for intel hardware built in
[19:01] <lns> sure
[19:02] <lns> i guess you told him that.. =p
[19:02] <lns> of course, *all* drivers isn't really good to say
[19:02] <lns> i know for a fact linux doesn't have support for my servers' video chipset
[19:03] <lns> (at least ubuntu doesn't)
[19:03] <stgraber> every needed driver should be included in Ubuntu, be it by default or optionaly (in the restricted-manager), if they aren't, it's a bug
[19:03] <lns> how can you give a blanket statement like that?
[19:04] <lns> what if I needed drivers for hardware I built myself?
[19:04] <stgraber> file a bug for inclusion in Ubuntu, it's the right way to do it
[19:05] <lns> ok i understand your approach there
[19:05] <stgraber> you don't want modules everywhere in /lib/modules/ that will no longer work after a security update, everything should be packages (and maintained packages) if you want a stable system
[19:06] <stgraber> idealy you shouldn't have any compiled by hand kernel/module or software on your system
[19:06] <stgraber> of course, that's in a perfect world :)
[19:07] <lns> it's always good to reach for the stars... ;)
[19:11] <scrapbunny> does anyone have the links Rich posted during the end of yesterday's meeting?
[19:14] <stgraber> scrapbunny: I have the log, what links are you interested in ?
[19:15] <stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/VolunteerUptakeProcess and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Education/Launchpad/Groups/Policy
[19:15] <scrapbunny> the volunteer link
[19:16] <scrapbunny> thats the one thanks
[19:17] <scrapbunny> oh and what is the main testing link you gave? i thought i bookmarked it but it was the edubuntu daily one
[19:17] <stgraber> https://iso.qa.stgraber.org or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO
[19:18] <stgraber> davmor2 is also working on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Tracker
[19:19] <scrapbunny> great thank you. i am testing the edubuntu server install now
[19:21] <scrapbunny> i should report bugs under the ubuntu alternate group right?
[19:22] <stgraber> as we are not testing at the moment, you should report them directly on Launchpad
[19:22] <stgraber> when we are testing (it'll be the case from Tuesday next week), you'll have to report them on LP (or find an existing bug ID), + report the failure on the QA Tracker
[19:26] <scrapbunny> so is it best to do a new install each tuesday or is there and update file?
[19:27] <stgraber> during the devel cycle, Alphas are release usually one every 3 weeks
[19:27] <stgraber> before we release those alphas, they need testing
[19:28] <stgraber> that's when we need the most people to test them (following the testcases we have on the wiki) and reporting any major issue during install and "standard" use
[19:29] <stgraber> the bugs you can see on the QA tracker (iso.qa.stgraber.org) all happened when following the testcases and are likely to break the system (in this case, the image has to be rebuilt and tested again)
[19:29] <scrapbunny> so should i wait and burn the daily on tuesday or try the one i burned last night?
[19:29] <stgraber> others bugs can still be reported on LP as you usually do
[19:30] <stgraber> the best would be to join #ubuntu-testing and wait till we announce the first Alpha2 candidates
[19:31] <stgraber> you can still test some dailies during the weekend and report the bugs you find on Lauchpad, so maybe those will get fixed in for the Alpha
[19:32] <scrapbunny> ok i'll try the daily and see how it goes. hopefully i'll find anything weird for the alpha :)


[09:26] <ghantoos> Armageddon: just saw your messages :)
[09:27] <ghantoos> Armageddon: rawa2, i'll be moving to Canada very soon
[09:27] <Armageddon> really ?
[09:27] <Armageddon> come visit :d
[09:27] <ghantoos> Armageddon: ba2a, raked raked nowadays..
[09:30] <Armageddon> ghantoos,
[09:30] <Armageddon> I have a question
[09:30] <Armageddon> any idea how to enable arabic support in gnome-terminal ?
[09:31] <ghantoos> not sure, but this might help: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1451241
[09:32] <Armageddon> not on Ubuntu ! :p
[09:32] <ghantoos> aha on what?
[09:32] <Armageddon> any linux distro
[09:33] <Armageddon> a random one
[09:36] <ghantoos> dabbir rasak! :)
[09:36] <Armageddon> ok :(
[09:42] <ghantoos> :))
[09:43] <Armageddon> it's not funny
[09:43] <Armageddon> I see arabic from ltr


[00:05] <wallyworld> kelvinliu_: forgot to ask, this PR can be closed right? https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8936
[00:08] <kelvinliu_> wallyworld, yeah, i just closed this for now. we can solve it later.
[00:13] <wallyworld> kelvinliu_: can you make sure there's a card on the caas trllo board for it so we don't forget
[00:16] <kelvinliu_> wallyworld, sure, done.
[00:16] <wallyworld> ty
[00:19] <kelvinliu_> np
[01:54] <thumper> bollocks
[01:54] <veebers> wallyworld: I'm I going crazy, using a fresh develop build I deploy a caas charm, juju status never changes the workload or message from active/Started Container
[01:54] <thumper> intermittent allwatcher test failures
[01:54] <veebers> I thought my changes introduced that hence why trying develop. I built a fresh operator image and set that too incase there was some caching or something
[01:55] <thumper> I think we have had them for a while,
[01:55]  * thumper disd
[01:55] <thumper> digs
[01:55] <wallyworld> veebers: i don't quite follow. status should not start out as active
[01:57] <veebers> wallyworld: sorry, this is status after ages: https://pastebin.canonical.com/p/3p5yYBFnKf/ I see with kubectl -n failing-message log -f juju-operator-mariadb that everything is happy etc. and the unit is fine
[01:57] <veebers> I assumed that status should have been updated right?
[01:58] <wallyworld> veebers: sorry, what's wrong with status? it looks correct? what are you expecting to see?
[01:59] <veebers> wallyworld: ah shit,  you're right; sorry I was thinking that 'started container' was the first message and something else should replace that.
[01:59] <veebers> wallyworld: I blame Friday + lack of sleep
[01:59] <veebers> I'll continue on my way ^_^
[01:59] <wallyworld> no worries. not that the charm is broken a bit
[02:00] <wallyworld> it will sometimes send the wrong status after a restart
[02:00] <wallyworld> *note
[02:01] <veebers> ack
[02:27] <anastasiamac> babbageclunk: \o/
[02:28] <babbageclunk> anastasiamac: hey hey
[02:28] <anastasiamac> just celebrating ur PR's merge...
[02:29] <babbageclunk> anastasiamac: oh yay!
[02:29]  * babbageclunk dances
[02:49] <thumper> i need a teddybear... babbageclunk your soft...
[02:51]  * babbageclunk sighs
[02:51] <babbageclunk> ok!
[02:51] <babbageclunk> in 1:1
[03:49] <veebers> ah man, wallyworld I'm all of sudden seeing this error, any thoughts on debugging it? (I use make operator-image and docker push to publish it: Failed to pull image "veebers/caas-operator@sha256:fc83ad5cbba1247daa1623d9b102201e56a655abd3d3b680d1ca3d456645ec5d": rpc error: code = Unknown desc = Error response from daemon: repository veebers/caas-operator not found: does not exist or no pull access
[03:49] <veebers> as far as I'm aware it's public and should have access
[03:50] <wallyworld> um
[03:50] <wallyworld> sure you you are using --config to set docker username when bootstrapping
[03:51] <wallyworld> caas-operator-image-path
[03:51] <wallyworld> not user name
[03:52] <wallyworld> other than that, not sure. i've bootstrapped today using the official image with no problems
[03:52] <wallyworld> do you need a non-released operator image?
[03:53] <veebers> wallyworld: ah shoot, maybe using wrong username will check
[03:54] <veebers> wallyworld: hmm, I am setting caas-operator-image-path as I was previously.
[03:54] <veebers> yeah bootstrapping without setting caas-operator-image-path works, I'll keep diggin
[03:55] <wallyworld> ok
[03:58] <thumper> babbageclunk: I think the race is still there just a lot smaller than it was...
[04:56] <babbageclunk> thumper: stink
[05:09] <thumper> babbageclunk: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/DwCgvSNYfC/
[05:09] <thumper> babbageclunk: getting there...
[05:10] <thumper> babbageclunk: I can't remember if the squishing of events is done in the txn watcher or the hub watcher
[05:10] <thumper> if it is the former, then there is no race
[05:10] <babbageclunk> I'm pretty sure it's the former
[05:10] <thumper> then, yay?
[05:11]  * babbageclunk yays?
[05:11] <thumper> I sorta hadta do a refactoring to move NewModel on to the controller object
[05:11] <thumper> from state
[05:11] <thumper> it made a bunch of things easier
[05:11] <thumper> and more correct
[05:11] <babbageclunk> yeah, it makes more sense being there now that you say it.
[05:12] <thumper> I was going to say all the tests are passing...
[05:12] <thumper> but just noticed a few watcher failures in migration tests
[05:12] <thumper> so almost there...
[05:13] <thumper> all failures so far just in modelmigration_test.go
[05:13] <thumper> I am getting hastled about finishing today though from Rachel
[05:14] <thumper> I had said I'd finish early because of the extra hours this week
[05:14] <thumper> but I'm trying to get these tests passing
[05:14]  * thumper sigh
[05:14] <thumper> never ending bollocks
[05:14] <thumper> and likely merge conflicts with devel now...
[05:15] <thumper> ... and StateSuite.TestWatchAllModels
[05:15] <thumper> and another...
[05:16]  * thumper sighs again
[05:16] <thumper> where is my wine
[05:16] <thumper> OOPS: 2263 passed, 3 skipped, 9 FAILED
[05:16] <thumper> better than before...
[05:16] <babbageclunk> yeah, I'm pretty sure it's beer oclock
[05:18] <thumper> huh
[05:18] <thumper> found that six of those failures are due to a replacement of the state clock
[05:18] <thumper> which would screw up the watchers
[05:22] <thumper> 6 fixed
[05:29] <babbageclunk> thumper: juju-engine-report isn't working for me on a freshly bootstrapped controller machine?
[05:30] <thumper> babbageclunk: underscores now
[05:30] <thumper> juju_engine_report
[05:30] <babbageclunk> thumper: ah, of course - thanks!
[06:20] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: you having luck with the bounce fix?
[06:20] <wallyworld> kelvinliu_: here's a small k8s storage fix https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/9108
[06:20] <kelvinliu_> wallyworld, looking now
[06:21] <wallyworld> ty
[06:21] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: yeah, I think so - just fixing some tests that needed a lot of thinking about, but the basic change is pretty simple.  Let me put a shirt on.
[09:04] <stickupkid> haha
[10:20] <stickupkid> manadart: I got it working
[10:20] <stickupkid> YESSSSS!
[10:21] <stickupkid> manadart: we can't do this here for older lxd -- https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/develop/provider/lxd/server.go#L245
[10:23] <manadart> Ahh.
[10:24] <stickupkid> I could check the version I guess, because it does work for new LXD, or do I follow the todo and move it?
[10:24] <stickupkid> manadart: also I don't think we can move it prior to instance creation?
[10:32] <manadart> I did some work on that on account of the frequency of the logging messages, but backed it out because the bridge must be there before enabling the HTTP listener.
[10:38] <stickupkid> what do you think the best course of action is, it looks like we don't need it for 2.0.x, but it's fine with 2.3.x >
[11:02] <manadart> stickupkid: I think we still need it called once on the host at the outset, we just don't want it called by model provisioning...
[11:03] <stickupkid> manadart: so we just need it hoisting further up the code flow?
[11:05] <manadart> stickupkid: Somehow, but where to put the conditional is the tricky part. This is the factory created with the environ...
[11:08] <stickupkid> manadart: so it doesn't know what's launching it, only the site of execution does (juju vs jujud)
[11:09] <manadart> stickupkid: I found the PR for the TODO that was closed: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8964/files
[11:12] <stickupkid> manadart: why did we close it?
[11:13] <manadart> stickupkid: I mentioned it ^^. If you don't call it, local bridge name is not set, then there is no IP for enableHTTPSListener.
[11:15] <manadart> It was one of the last LXD things I worked on. At the time I had to get an Openstack bug fixed, so it was parked. Didn't realise it was an actual bug at the time - I was addressing logging frequency.
[11:16] <stickupkid> ha
[11:16] <stickupkid> so I'll have a look at the PR and try and see what we can do with it
[12:42] <stickupkid> manadart: if we move that call up the code, we then don't end up with a local bridge name :sigh:
[12:42] <manadart> stickupkid: Exactly.
[12:42] <stickupkid> haha
[12:42] <stickupkid> right, i'm getting your comment before now, i'm just re-living it
[12:49] <stickupkid> manadart: right it seems we still need to ensure the bridge for local setups see: https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/2.2/tools/lxdclient/client.go#L158-L167
[13:50] <manadart> externalreality: It seems to be working now. Refreshed from develop, installed deps and rebuilt.
[13:53] <manadart> manadart: Panic still. Different error.
[13:53] <manadart> externalreality: ^
[14:09] <externalreality> manadart, ack
[14:10] <externalreality> manadart, looking
[14:10] <manadart> externalreality: I think I've sorted it. One minute.
[14:10] <externalreality> manadart, ok
[14:24] <manadart> externalreality: Yep. Works end-to-end. Will put a PR up now.
[14:26] <externalreality> manadart, cool
[14:34] <externalreality> manadart, I see you comment on the PR
[14:34] <manadart> externalreality: The lock cleanup? Yes.
[14:34] <externalreality> manadart, I feel dumb, not sure how I left that bit out I was sure I put it in there... thus the code review process works.
[14:35] <externalreality> manadart, In any case what I see is actually somewhat different that what you suggest on the pr
[14:35] <externalreality> manadart, as in what the main loop of the worker is doing... it seems to be switching on the retreived state. Its quite nice.
[14:36] <externalreality> manadart, anyway I updated the PR if you could have a look for quickly, I would appreaciate it. Its only a 3+ line change.
[14:36] <manadart> externalreality: Sure.
[14:37] <manadart> Also the PR that gets end-to-end working again is: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/9109
[14:44] <stickupkid> manadart: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/9110
[14:48] <manadart> stickupkid: Will look.
[14:49] <stickupkid> manadart: i need to do some more manual testing, around snap 2.0.x and apt-get 3.0.x
[14:49] <stickupkid> so many combinations :(
[15:50] <stickupkid> hml: updated the description https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/9110
[15:51] <stickupkid> note this needs backporting to 2.4.x - I need to check that to be sure.
[15:57] <hml> stickupkid: ack, ty
[16:49] <externalreality> manadart, if you are still around do you know why I get the error "CRIU is not installed" when trying to make a stateful snapshot with lxc - this when CRIU is infact installed.
[17:17] <hml> rick_h_: you prefer this: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/mhJQKCFPcZ/ with the newline?  at first glance the Cloud line blends into the Enter questions to me.  either way
[17:32] <rick_h_> hml: sure, let's try it thanks.
[17:33] <hml> rick_h_: k
[17:33] <hml> rick_h_: on the PEM-encoded… i thinking a few more words would help too.
[17:34] <hml> rick_h_: Enter the LXD client certificate, name of PEM-encoded file (optional):
[17:34] <hml> rick_h_: or
[17:34] <hml> rick_h_: certificate filename, PEM-encoded (optional):
[17:47] <rick_h_> hml: plus one to the second one. I like filename
[17:50] <hml> rick_h_: ack
[18:18] <hml> rick_h_: i have 2 quick PRs up for your viewing pleasure: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/9112 and https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/9111
[18:19] <rick_h_> hml: cool will look. Thanks.
[18:55] <rick_h_> hml: quest back to you on one of them
[19:07] <hml> rick_h_: option 2 matches more closely to the o7k cert file requestion
[19:14] <rick_h_> hml: which one is option 2?
[19:15] <hml> rick_h_: the path to the PEM-encoded LXD server certificate file
[19:15] <rick_h_> hml: cool, let's do that then. Thank you for adjusting it!
[19:38] <hml> rick_h_: 9112 is updated
[19:39] <rick_h_> hml: cool, will look once done with this call ty


[07:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3306 Proposed pocket
[08:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3325 Generating diffs
[08:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- tsimonq2 mitya57 acheronuk, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3291 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (cosmic/analitza, cosmic/kxmlgui, cosmic/libqtxdg, cosmic/qtav, cosmic/qtbase-opensource-src, cosmic/telegram-desktop). Proposed pocket (cosmic/fcitx-qt5, cosmic/gcin, cosmic/hime, cosmic/kdeclarative, cosmic/kdelibs4support, cosmic/kwin, cosmic/maliit-framework, cosmic/plasma-integration, cosmic/pythonqt, cosmic/qqc2-desktop-
[08:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3325 Successfully built
[11:52] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- tsimonq2 mitya57 acheronuk, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3291 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (cosmic/analitza, cosmic/kxmlgui, cosmic/libqtxdg, cosmic/qtav, cosmic/qtbase-opensource-src, cosmic/qtwebengine-opensource-src, cosmic/telegram-desktop). Proposed pocket (cosmic/fcitx-qt5, cosmic/gcin, cosmic/hime, cosmic/kdeclarative, cosmic/kdelibs4support, cosmic/kwin, cosmic/maliit-framework, cosmic/plasma-integration, co
[16:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3325 Generating diffs
[16:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3325 Pending binary packages
[17:05] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3325 Successfully built
[18:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3325 Pending binary packages
[18:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3325 Successfully built
[21:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3304 REJECTED queue


[02:25] <ubotu> New bug: #182038 in xserver-xorg-video-nv (universe) "Black rectangle instead of image in FF3/Hardy" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182038
[05:31] <ubotu> New bug: #180525 in firefox-3.0 (universe) "firefox-3.0 libpr0n resizes images into works of abstract art (dup-of: 182038)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180525
[05:41] <tjaalton> bryce: nice, so it's off your back then :)
[07:41] <tjaalton> jcristau: you not on #debian-x? RAOF would like to have access to pkg-xorg
[07:44] <bryce> tjaalton: indeed
[08:56] <mvo> bryce, tjaalton: it looks like a fix for http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=488264 was commited. can we try to cherry pick this into our tree?
[08:56] <ubotu> Gnome bug 488264 in general "keybord grab problem under compiz" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[08:58] <tjaalton> mvo: I noticed, it was discussed on #debian-x briefly
[08:59] <mvo> aha, nice
[08:59] <mvo> the patch looks simple enough
[08:59] <tjaalton> very
[09:00] <ubotu> New bug: #173367 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (main) "Xorg crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173367
[09:41] <ubotu> New bug: #144551 in ubuntu "Upgrade to <IP_ADDRESS> - NVidia driver does not work (dup-of: 145621)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/144551
[09:41] <ubotu> New bug: #183716 in xorg (main) "cpu load jumps to 40% when copying to usb-flash" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183716
[09:45] <mvo> tjaalton: do you happen to know if changes to structs like __GLXscreen in the libglx extension modify the abi in a way that might cause problems with fglrx/nvidia?
[09:46] <tjaalton> mvo: they ship their own AFAIK
[09:47] <mvo> good, thanks
[11:31] <ubotu> New bug: #183742 in xorg-server (main) "configuration problems" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183742
[12:06] <tjaalton> bryce: check airlied's comments on #xorg-devel about intel. currently I can't even build the batchbuffer stuff, and even if I could it doesn't do anything useful since intel guys should push their fixes upstream (AIUI)
[12:08] <tjaalton> so.. I'll do something else in the meantime :)
[12:08] <tjaalton> like, work
[15:56] <Q-FUNK> jcristau: at xorg-server (2:1.4-1) in debian.changelog,       x11proto-render-dev was bumped.  was this just to match the latest release or an absolute necessity?
[16:00] <jcristau> Q-FUNK: it was because of 030dd885476b70c9054b6e4b50dfdbab12e73716 in renderproto. probably not absolutely necessary
[16:00] <Q-FUNK> ok
[16:01] <Q-FUNK> I was trying to backport the hard xorg into gutsy, to see if it might restore operation on my laptop with siliconmotion.  that build-dep bump made pbuilder barf. :)
[16:02] <jcristau> getting an updated renderproto would be trivial anyway
[16:46] <mvo_> insn't the latest fglrx supposed to have texture_from_pixmap?
[16:46] <tjaalton> yes, but apparently it's broken somehow
[16:46] <tjaalton> we don't have the latest version, btw
[16:47] <tjaalton> because it's even more broken than 7.11 :)
[16:47] <mvo_> aha, that explains it :)
[16:47] <mvo_> meh, is that even possible ;)
[16:47] <tjaalton> yes, breaks widescreen modes
[16:47] <tjaalton> "quality control - FAIL"
[16:48] <mvo_> :)
[16:48] <mvo_> ok, thanks for this info
[16:48] <tjaalton> np
[17:04] <ubotu> New bug: #183746 in xorg (main) "Hardy Heron Live CD boots but with incorrect graphics mode on Vaio PCG-SRX51P/B" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183746
[19:40] <tjaalton> some failsafe mode.. everything else is running but I have metacity instead of compiz
[19:40] <tjaalton> which is failsafe enough :P
[20:55] <bryce> yay, ume issue solved
[20:55] <bryce> http://bryceharrington.org/drupal/ume-psb-fix
[21:01] <ubotu> New bug: #183873 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (main) "Unable to use xrandr for dual-head in hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183873
[21:11] <Q-FUNK> bryce: how do you like poulsbo, so far?
[21:13] <bryce> my judgement is likely clouded from having the last 2 weeks consumed by a single bug in it, but I'm yet to see what the big deal is about it
[21:14] <bryce> the 3D driver might make a difference
[21:26] <tjaalton> I've built drm, mesa, xserver (& couple of libs) master, and intel-batchbuffer, and the damn thing doesn't work. some part is lacking the batchbuffer stuff :/
[21:27] <tjaalton> intel_dri.so complains about some unknown symbol and fails
[21:28] <tjaalton> video ABI has bumped to 4 btw
[21:28] <bryce> hrm
[21:29] <bryce> I only talked briefly with rolla yesterday, but we discussed falling back to XAA; she says it's understandable  we'd need to take that approach until things are working better
[21:30] <tjaalton> yep
[21:31] <Q-FUNK> bryce: ok.  that matches my assessment of the chipset.
[21:32] <bryce> it's a tiny chip; maybe the attraction is that it works "okay" but is tons smaller and less power consuming than the equivalent normal gfx chip
[21:32] <Q-FUNK> to me, the main quibble is that it's touted as "almost x86" except it really isn't
[21:32] <bryce> I'm a bit disappointed how much customized cruft has built up around it
[21:33] <bryce> makes working on it rather complicated
[21:34] <Q-FUNK> well, people want either real x86 or somehting completely different.  since it's touted as "almost x86" people start by building the almost, as in with libgcc1
[22:15] <ubotu> New bug: #182358 in compiz (main) "Compiz crashes my laptop (Intel T7200) Nvidia 7400 (dup-of: 145112)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182358
[22:27] <tjaalton> well, something positive; on resume LCD backlight is turned on with intel master
[22:29] <tjaalton> before I had to change the vt to turn it on
[22:30] <tjaalton> hmm, grammar errors, but you get the point ;)
[22:46] <ubotu> New bug: #183893 in libxfont (main) "[Sync request] Sync libxfont (1:1.3.1-2) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183893
[22:46] <Q-FUNK> tjaalton: here, with siliconmotion, this fails completely since X 1.3. with 1.2, the console switching trick you describe worked.  with 1.1, I never needed it.  operation was spotless.
[22:47] <tjaalton> see, that's progress :)
[22:59] <Q-FUNK> after briefly testing with1.4 tonight, I notice thta it keeps on getting worse.  same x-x-video-siliconmotion source, different x core.
[22:59] <Q-FUNK> lovely definition of progress.
[23:09] <bryce> I'd think Q-FUNK hated X if I didn't know better ;-)


[12:07] <melodie> hi
[12:07] <melodie> has someone noticed issues related to gnome-policykit-1, pkexec and pam in Xubuntu 20.04 ?
[12:08] <melodie> I have a friend whose Xubuntu 20.04 can't use the update-manager and update-notifier (it crashes) and in the .xesssion-errors file there is a message related to gnome-polkit-1 and PAM authentication that fails
[12:09] <melodie> in another Ubuntu 20.04 (a light one of mine) I had to remove gnome-policykit and use lxpolkit instead, to get synaptic-pkexec to work again.
[12:10] <melodie> I would like to report a bug but I am not sure what to write, and against which package exactly. I would like some help around this issue and how to report the bug the right way?
[12:17] <Maik> https://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa-bugs.html
[12:17] <Maik> https://wiki.xubuntu.org/qa/report
[12:18] <Maik> melodie: maybe that helps you further?
[15:38] <DarkTrick> It seams like someone repaired the "no HDMI audio for 4 seconds on audio start"-bug. I really appreciate that!!!
[16:17] <gravitos> so, my laptop refuses to connect to any bluetooth devices and points me that device or resource is busy whilst it clearly is not, any ideas? xubuntu 18.04
[16:17] <gravitos> btmon's log when trying to connect to my phone with bluetoothctl: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/6C8jusjz/btmon
[16:21] <ryan-c> I'm running xubuntu 20.04 and using xscreensaver. Something keeps trying waking it up and I can't figure out what - can anyone give me some tips on figuring out what the offending device or software is?
[16:22] <ryan-c> I tried reducing the mouse sensitivity in the xscreensaver config but that doesn't seem to be the problem.
[16:22] <ryan-c> Issue has persisted over a reboot.
[16:32] <brainwash> ryan-c: I would try -verbose
[16:33] <diogenes_> ryan-c, tried unplugging the mouse?
[16:33] <ryan-c> yes, i tried unplugging the mouse
[16:33] <ryan-c> i also opened up xev and focused the window and left it for a bit and didn't see any messages
[16:38] <ryan-c> brainwash: okay, thank you, I'd missed the verbose option. Something is sending it DEACTIVATE messages.
[16:39] <brainwash> power manager, some media player or your web browser?
[16:40] <ryan-c> I'd already suspected the media player (though it was only playing audio) and closed it.
[16:40] <ryan-c> I just closed firefox.
[16:41] <ryan-c> Okay, still happening.
[16:43] <ryan-c> I don't have an active tab with a video player open.
[16:43] <brainwash> kill xfce4-power-manager and see if that helps
[16:45] <ryan-c> i tried two things at once, that was foolish
[16:46] <ryan-c> brainwash: that does appear to have fixed it.
[16:47] <brainwash> uhm
[16:47] <brainwash> did you maybe have "presentation mode" enabled?
[16:47] <ryan-c> certainly not deliberately
[16:47] <brainwash> I think it can be toggled via the tray icon
[16:47] <ryan-c> how do i restart it?
[16:48] <brainwash> run xfce4-power-manager
[16:48] <brainwash> you can run it with debug output also
[16:48] <brainwash> that could be helpful
[16:48] <ryan-c> I don't see a tray icon for it?
[16:48] <gravitos> 19:17:39 <gravitos> so, my laptop refuses to connect to any bluetooth devices and points me that device or resource is busy whilst it clearly is not, any ideas? xubuntu 18.04
[16:48] <gravitos> 19:17:39 <gravitos> btmon's log when trying to connect to my phone with bluetoothctl: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/6C8jusjz/btmon
[16:49] <brainwash> xfce4-power-manager --no-daemon --debug
[16:49] <brainwash> well, it's a panel plugin by default
[16:49] <brainwash> you'd have to add it to the panel item list
[16:49] <ryan-c> my install was, uh, very manual
[16:50] <brainwash> https://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/panel-plugin
[16:50] <ryan-c> like, i did debootstrap and `apt install xubuntu-desktop`
[16:52] <brainwash> anyway, if this is a desktop PC, then you don't really need the power manager
[16:52] <gravitos> click any panel with right mouse button, then Panel -> Add new elements, find that plugin in there, click it, then click Add, new item should appear on panel
[16:52] <ryan-c> yeah, it's a dektop
[16:52] <brainwash> screen blanking can be configured with xscreensaver also
[16:52] <ryan-c> i have a ups though, but i don't think i hooked it up via usb
[16:54] <ryan-c> well it's behaving itself now because of course it is
[16:56] <ryan-c> brainwash: thank you for your help, i have no idea how i would have solved this otherwise
[16:57] <brainwash> glad I could help :)


[01:30] <cathode> how do i tell ubuntu 17.04 to import pools upon boot that were imported when it last shut down
[01:30] <cathode> import zfs pools*
[01:33] <sarnold> hrm I'd just sort of expect that to happen automatically
[01:33] <sarnold> zpool import ought to be a good start
[01:34] <sarnold> do you get error messages?
[01:35] <cathode> no error messages. but when i reboot, the pool doesnt get imported automatically
[01:35] <cathode> on freebsd there was a pool cache file that the kernel used to keep track of what it last knew about
[01:35] <sarnold> how about dmesg? journalctl ?
[01:36] <sarnold> yeah the cache file exists on zfsonlinux too
[01:36] <cathode> what exactly should i be looking for? just `journalctl | grep zfs` or something?
[01:36] <cathode> ahhh, hmm
[01:37] <cathode> Jul 14 18:34:16 nexus systemd[1]: zfs-import-cache.service: Unit entered failed state.
[01:39] <sarnold> I didn't spot any logging messages in mine that looked particularly useful :/
[01:40] <cathode> aight
[01:40] <cathode> thanks for looking. i'm going to keep reading :)
[01:54] <cathode> yeah it looks like the system might be trying to import pools before the devices  are ready
[01:56] <sarnold> :(
[02:08] <Polarcraft> Anyone know why I can't set my hostname for my server? Tried setting the hostname and hosts files to the correct hostname, but with no success. I also tried executing hostnamectl, but that just error'd out.
[02:10] <sarnold> Polarcraft: what did you change the name to? what did you put in the /etc/hostname and /etc/hosts files? how did you call hostnamectl and what error did it give you?
[02:35] <Polarcraft> sarnold, it defaulty has cp in it, so I put the full hostname "cp.vengyn.net".  Any reason for that happening?
[02:40] <sarnold> hrm I'm not real up to date on mail servers :/ most have some way to set the machine's various names though, yours may need some configuring still
[02:41] <Polarcraft> Well it was setup auto by Plesk, which they don't seem to have a fix for it :(
[02:42] <sarnold> i'm pretty skeptical of web-based control panel things; they often have tools to read and write configurations for ten year old tools or brand new tools but rarely the tools that are on the system, and they tend to have security holes in them, or in the configurations they write. :(
[02:43] <Polarcraft> Well Plesk was working until we tried sending emails to gmail and outlook.
[02:43] <Polarcraft> Apparently my ip was blacklisted due to issues with the dns, which was fixed besides this issue.
[02:44] <sarnold> email is cranky these days
[02:46] <Polarcraft> Indeed, but if it fixed I would be a happy camper.
[02:47] <Polarcraft> s/if it/if it was
[03:51] <pacmanfan> anyone have a trick for expanding a /boot partition when there's an LVM partition after it?
[03:52] <pacmanfan> i'm using the gparted livecd to expand /boot on a bunch of 16.04 servers, and there is no consistency between them for what works
[03:53] <pacmanfan> or i'm not seeing the consistency because i have to try a gazillion things before i'm able to shift unallocated space over to be adjacent to /boot
[03:53] <pacmanfan> what i'm struggling with most is getting gparted to deactivate the LVM
[03:54] <pacmanfan> on one of the servers, it would deactivate if i ran vgchange -an <vmname>-vg
[03:55] <pacmanfan> another one deactivated the LVM after i created a partition in unallocated space and then nuked it
[03:55] <pacmanfan> but i just can't get this one to deactivate...
[07:51] <lordievader> Good morning
[10:32] <Eruptum> Hi, seems like a silly question but, can' t seem to find a good answer online... what precautions should I take (other than backup what's on the Raid) if I decide to upgrade from 14.04 Raid1 to 16.04? thx
[10:34] <tomreyn> a backup that is stored on the same system and location is not a backup
[10:34] <tomreyn> you want backups to be remote.
[10:35] <Eruptum> it would def be backed-up to somewhere else...
[10:37] <Eruptum> There's not a whole bunch of data on the raid, just want to make sure my ducks are in a row before pulling the trigger on the upgrade...
[10:37] <tomreyn> use ppa-purge to remove 3rd party repositories and their packages.
[10:38] <tomreyn> other than that, if you have a full backup, i can't think of anything else.
[10:38] <tomreyn> be sure to have a live bootable media (usb stick or cd-/dvd-rom) ready to recover the system should the upgrade fail.
[10:39] <Eruptum> ppa-purge even if it's non-gui?
[10:40] <Eruptum> okay, have bootable media for recovery...
[10:40] <tomreyn> sure, if you have any ppas and any packages in there might interfere with the upgrade process (since PPAs are not supported and not tested for upgrades)
[10:41] <Eruptum> ah, thanks... help is much appreciated tomreyn!
[10:41] <tomreyn> you could discuss which ppas you have and we could discuss whether they're likely going to be an issue.
[10:42] <tomreyn> but any PPAs you have will be disabled during the upgrade anyway. however, packages installed form there, which can (and often do) interfere with the upgrade process aren't removed automatically during an upgrade, so you'll better do it now if there are any which could post a problem.
[10:43] <tomreyn> welcome
[16:39] <teward> rbasak: for awareness: it seems rerunning that autopkgtest I mentioned that failed *worked* and it was able to get released from proposed.  Now I can get 1.12.1 in.
[19:53] <CyberpunkZombie> hi guys, i am wondering how i can fix a small issue. i am running on an old Dell Precision M90 lappy, and there is no way to stop the "on lid close, go to suspend state" switch in the bios, so I was wondering if there was a way to do it in the OS.
[19:53] <CyberpunkZombie> it might lay with power savings settings, but i have NO idea how to deal with any of that.
[19:53] <CyberpunkZombie> well, from terminal. 8D
[20:34] <vbotka> CyberpunkZombie, FWIW, you might want to take a look at my notes how to ignore lid https://pastebin.com/Cpu1WQFz
[20:35] <CyberpunkZombie> Thank you!
[20:37] <CyberpunkZombie> lol, no gedit
[20:39] <CyberpunkZombie> and not adding that many packages for it, lets see if vim is there
[21:01] <CyberpunkZombie> ok, got it with VIM i think, rebooting it lets see if it works 8D
[21:03] <CyberpunkZombie> seems to work like a charm, thank you!!
[21:50] <fishcooker> sudo do-release-upgrade is the same operation with * Install a newer HWE version by running: sudo apt-get install and reboot your system.


[04:55] <pitti> Good morning
[14:17] <elopio_> good morning.
[14:25] <balloons> buenos dias elopio_
[14:25] <elopio_> Hola balloons.
[17:08] <elfy> balloons: hi - what's the status of fixing the tracker?
[17:35] <balloons> elfy, still working on dev environment.
[17:36] <elfy> is it getting there?
[19:54] <balloons> elfy, I was referred to an outdated guide, so that's next to try
[19:54] <elfy> lol
[19:55] <elfy> I can't understand why the changes weren't tested first :)
[19:56] <knome> i guess that's half my fault, but seriously, balloons..
[19:56] <knome> it isn't even hard to comment out the changes for now :)
[19:58] <elfy> comment out the testcase always has to be there - especially when it's a thousand yards long
[19:58] <elfy> that is seriously doing my head in :|
[19:59] <knome> heh
[19:59] <elfy> don't actually find it very amusing
[19:59] <knome> me neither.
[20:01] <balloons> knome, at this point I'm happy to just push the fixes
[20:01] <balloons> I'm trying to put up something that is repeatable
[20:02] <balloons> so it's somewhat my fault, that and my early weekdays are mostly spoken for with meeting
[20:03] <knome> :)
[20:56] <balloons> elfy.. bah you left forestpiskie
[20:58] <balloons> well knome you can have a look at least: http://<IP_ADDRESS>
[21:05] <knome> You are currently on an invalid subdomain. Please go to a valid testing tracker instance.  :P
[21:08] <balloons> :-) working on fixing that
[21:09] <knome> well, good luck.
[21:10] <knome> i told you setting up a test domain would not be easy
[22:47] <balloons> knome, it's up: http://<IP_ADDRESS>/qatracker
[23:07] <elfy> balloons: I see that - though I don't see any differences
[23:07] <balloons> elfy, I applied knome's changes, but I agree, I'm not seeing anything different
[23:08] <elfy> mind you there are no bugs so ...
[23:09] <elfy> mmm
[23:09] <elfy> the bugs are still just icons
[23:09] <balloons> elfy, yea, no script running to update them
[23:10] <elfy> all I can see that's different to before you both broke it last week is that everyone is forced to read the testcase even if they don't want to
[23:11] <elfy> balloons: I think you misunderstand my icon comment - afaik one of the changes was to actually list bugs so it's useful
[23:12] <balloons> elfy, ahh yes you are right
[23:12] <balloons> I'll have to figure out how to make bugs show so you can test that
[23:13] <elfy> unless the knome changes are just the old waiting ones and not the new ones yet
[23:13] <elfy> those bugs don't have anyone assigned to them
[23:15] <balloons> ugh, you didn't login :-)
[23:15] <balloons> so anyways, tomorrow when he's about again we should be able to play around enough to fix things
[23:16] <elfy> k
[23:17] <balloons> yea, site looks pretty close to the real thing..  I'll rollback the site to old prod
[23:22] <knome> elfy, they are just the old waiting ;]
[23:22] <elfy> knome: guessed so :)
[23:23] <knome> balloons, either i'm completely blind, or jquery simply isn't loaded


[02:21] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[06:17] <Mr_Cyclops> Hello... struggling with an NFS export issue on Ubuntu
[06:17] <Mr_Cyclops> .
[06:18] <Mr_Cyclops> I have two directories /abc/m1 and /abc/m2
[06:19] <Mr_Cyclops> both are individual mount points
[06:19] <Mr_Cyclops> when I export /abc via NFS, contents of m1 and m2 are not visible on the nfs client
[06:19] <Mr_Cyclops> what am I missing? :-/
[06:20] <Bashing-om> Mr_Cyclops: Support in the #ubuntu channel :) Here is co-ordination and such stuff,
[06:20] <Mr_Cyclops> oh, ok :) tx Bashing-om
[06:20] <Bashing-om> Mr_Cyclops: small thing to direct to proper help :P
[06:21] <Mr_Cyclops> always helps :) Cheers!
[09:38] <marcoagpinto> Heya!
[11:21] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[11:21] <EoflaOE> Hello BluesKaj
[11:22] <BluesKaj> hi EoflaOE
[11:23] <EoflaOE> How are you doing?
[11:23] <BluesKaj> ok here, how about you?
[11:23] <EoflaOE> I am doing fine
[11:31] <marcoagpinto> BluesKaj!!! Hello!
[11:31] <marcoagpinto> >:)
[11:32] <BluesKaj> hi marcoagpinto
[12:43] <marcoagpinto> I am just a little demon! >:)
[12:43]  * lotuspsychje runs away fast
[12:43] <marcoagpinto> lotuspsychje: hey hey! :))))
[16:31] <hggdh> tomreyn: !gootlog added
[16:31] <hggdh> argh!
[16:31] <hggdh> bootlog
[16:32] <lotuspsychje> !bootlog
[16:32] <lotuspsychje> nice tnx hggdh
[16:36] <tomreyn> hggdh: thank you!
[19:43] <pragmaticenigma> I like gootlog more hggdh ... please add it!
[19:54] <hggdh> pragmaticenigma: after the typo, I thought of adding grootlog is <reply> I am Groot
[19:55] <pragmaticenigma> yes! do it!
[19:59] <hggdh> heh
[21:13] <Bashing-om> UWN589 is on the streets: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue589 :D


[00:07] <ScottL> hi rlameiro :)
[00:08] <rlameiro> ScottL: hey :D
[00:08] <ScottL> rlameiro, would you be interested in helping to test some backports?
[00:08] <ScottL> if we get two people to test packages we should be able to get them accepting into the official backports
[00:10] <rlameiro> I can test stuff on 10.04
[00:10] <rlameiro> i am running it, its my main enviroment, so no prob
[00:10] <rlameiro> I do audio stuff on another install
[00:17] <ScottL> rlameiro, here is the plan for the lucid backports:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Backports
[00:18] <ScottL> if you were curious to help with packaging https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/BackportsHowToHelpfor the backports here is the build documentation i'm working on :
[00:18] <ScottL> crappy touch mouse moving my cursor
[00:19] <ScottL> if you were curious to help with packaging for the backports, here is the build documentation that i'm working on:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/BackportsHowToHelp
[00:20] <rlameiro> i will look into that
[00:20] <rlameiro> at the moment i am kinda busy with the thesis, but after that i will try stuff
[00:21] <ScottL> no rush rlameiro, it will be a continuing work in progress without any particular due date :)
[00:22] <rlameiro> ohh ok
[00:22] <rlameiro> ScottL: cont with me
[00:22] <rlameiro> when you have stuff to test nock me up :D
[00:22] <rlameiro> I will look later into the package stuff
[00:24] <rlameiro> another stuff I need to do, is to define the specific test to each workflows, or maybe if it is possible a more than a test for each
[00:33] <rlameiro> ScottL: just corrected a typo on the lucid number :D
[00:42] <rlameiro> holstein: maybe you could send a 15 minutes notice to the mailing list :D
[00:42] <holstein> on it
[00:44] <rlameiro> holstein: lol, I was joking :D
[00:44] <rlameiro> but ok
[00:45] <rlameiro> he he scott-upstairs has moved to upstairs :D meeting on :D
[00:45] <holstein> rlameiro: hehe
[00:45] <holstein> i did it ;)
[00:45] <holstein> i meant to do one at an hour out
[00:45] <rlameiro> its nice, maybe people can remeber it :D
[00:46] <holstein> oops
[00:46] <holstein> that was an irc meetin reminder
[00:46] <holstein> oh well
[00:46] <rlameiro> lol
[00:46] <rlameiro> crimsun: are you on?
[00:50] <holstein> i'll grab the text out of that freenode webchat client
[00:50] <holstein> and email it around after the meet :)
[00:51] <rlameiro> you should check if it logs :D
[00:51] <holstein> ubottu or ubuntulo1 probably do right?
[00:51] <holstein> the channel is logged somewhere
[00:52] <rlameiro> yes it is
[00:53] <rlameiro> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
[00:53] <rlameiro> they are logged if the bots are logged in
[00:54] <scott-upstairs> for those who are curious, you can find the logs at: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/
[00:56] <scott-upstairs> navigate through the month and day, then find ubuntustudio-devel.html or .txt
[00:57] <holstein> cool
[00:57] <holstein> ill just find it there to email out later
[01:00] <holstein> hey tomwilso
[01:00] <rlameiro> TIME!
[01:01] <holstein> #startmeeting
[01:01] <tomwilso> hey holstein how are you this evening?
[01:01] <scott-upstairs> just curious, who is here for the meeting?
[01:01] <holstein> tomwilso: not bad at all
[01:02] <scott-upstairs> obviously me :)
[01:02] <rlameiro> I am for the meeting
[01:02] <holstein> scott-upstairs: o/
[01:02] <scott-upstairs> stochastic_,  are you going to make it?
[01:02] <rlameiro> stochastic_: are you there?
[01:02] <holstein> abogani:
[01:02] <holstein> astraljava: ??
[01:03] <rlameiro> a ping channel function would be awesome :D
[01:03] <holstein> you can right?
[01:03] <holstein> i just dont know how
[01:03] <rlameiro> is it possible?
[01:03] <rlameiro> i dont know f it is
[01:03] <holstein> i guess not a ping really
[01:05] <rlameiro> well, maybe we could wait a little bit more, else this will not be much productive anyway
[01:05] <holstein> yeah
[01:05] <holstein> 5 or 10
[01:05] <scott-upstairs> i noticed the alpha1 image isn't available anymore, i wonder why
[01:06] <superchinawokvid> hey there
[01:06] <scott-upstairs> hi superchinawokvid, are you here for the meeting?
[01:06] <holstein> hello superchinawokvid :)
[01:06] <superchinawokvid> i am
[01:06] <superchinawokvid> im luis
[01:06] <rlameiro> well, people is coming from the web interface :D
[01:06] <superchinawokvid><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:07] <superchinawokvid> super china wok video drivers, OI!
[01:07] <holstein> we might hold for a few minutes
[01:07] <holstein> not long though
[01:07] <holstein> and you axman1971 ??
[01:07] <holstein> welcome :)
[01:07] <axman1971> thanks
[01:07] <axman1971> first meeting, hello room
[01:07] <rlameiro> hello
[01:07] <superchinawokvid> so how is everyone
[01:08] <holstein> i think this is the first meeting in a while anyways
[01:08] <rlameiro> cold brrrrr
[01:08] <holstein> yeah, it got cold here too
[01:08] <axman1971> forgive me I'm currently multitasking.
[01:08] <holstein> rlameiro: not as bad as where you are though
[01:08] <rlameiro> holstein: sure? we have 6 C over here now...
[01:08] <superchinawokvid> word
[01:08] <rlameiro> i tought you were on a colder place than me...
[01:09] <holstein> not right now
[01:09] <superchinawokvid> i was looking at the us site today
[01:09] <superchinawokvid> and its really depressing
[01:09] <superchinawokvid> am i the only one
[01:09] <superchinawokvid> who thinks this
[01:09] <holstein> nah
[01:09] <holstein> thats why we are here :)
[01:09] <rlameiro> superchinawokvid: well, i think a lot of us share the same feeling
[01:09] <holstein> or the main reason
[01:09] <rlameiro> if not all
[01:10] <rlameiro> the feeling it gives me its like the site its a fas hack
[01:10] <rlameiro> fast*
[01:10] <holstein> personally, i dont mind the old site
[01:10] <holstein> but, im into a change as well
[01:10] <holstein> moving forward
[01:11] <rlameiro> well, there is little info for new comers
[01:11] <holstein> right
[01:11] <holstein> i dont think its clear that the audience is newcomers
[01:11] <holstein> OR was
[01:11] <holstein> when that site was put up
[01:11] <holstein> and thats one perspective as well
[01:11] <rlameiro> well, it should be also, at least for the studio, not for linux
[01:12] <holstein> i think a lot of thought has been going into who the target audience is
[01:12] <holstein> and who it should be
[01:12] <rlameiro> of course, its a simple site that did its job
[01:12] <holstein> i think the workflow ideas are great
[01:12] <superchinawokvid> yeah
[01:13] <superchinawokvid> i reallllly dig opensuse's site
[01:13] <superchinawokvid> i mentioned this earlier in the emails
[01:13] <holstein> someone coming from another OS can see how we do a specific task
[01:13] <rlameiro> holstein: is there some agenda?
[01:13] <holstein> rlameiro: i think scott-upstairs is just going to facilitate
[01:13] <holstein> drop some links
[01:13] <superchinawokvid> also where is scott
[01:13] <holstein> i dont think we have an official agenda
[01:13] <superchinawokvid> http://www.opensuse.org/en/
[01:13] <rlameiro> ok.
[01:13] <holstein> its really just site talk that needs to happen
[01:13] <superchinawokvid> who is going to do this though
[01:14] <superchinawokvid> there was a sweet mock up
[01:14] <superchinawokvid> what happened to that
[01:14] <rlameiro> well, maybe we should talk about that when meeting starts
[01:14] <holstein> i really like http://ubuntu-tweak.com/
[01:14] <holstein> superchinawokvid: i think there are several mockups
[01:14] <stochastic_> hi all
[01:15] <stochastic_> sorry I'm late
[01:15] <tomwilso> http://ubuntu-tweak.com/ I really like that site as well
[01:15] <rlameiro> stochastic_: !!!! ma man!!
[01:15] <holstein> stochastic_: hey :)
[01:15] <holstein> nah, your right on time
[01:15] <scott-upstairs> i'm here (scott)
[01:15]  * stochastic_ reads back scroll
[01:15] <scott-upstairs> hi stochastic_  :)
[01:15] <rlameiro> holstein: 2 more min.?
[01:16] <holstein> sure
[01:16] <scott-upstairs> if you recieved a qatracker email and tried to follow the link to test the image, it's a bad link apparently
[01:16] <scott-upstairs> use this instead:  http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/daily/20101130/
[01:16] <scott-upstairs> if you _didn't_ receive an email from qatracker...sign up! :)
[01:17] <holstein> i had no idea
[01:17] <rlameiro> i did.. didnt followed the link tough
[01:17] <scott-upstairs> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntustudio/all
[01:17] <rlameiro> persia: up for the meeting?
[01:17] <superchinawokvid> i have to go in about 20 minutes unfortuanetly
[01:18] <superchinawokvid> when will this begin
[01:18] <rlameiro> well, then maybe we should kick it
[01:18] <holstein> yup
[01:18] <holstein> go for it
[01:18] <rlameiro> scott-upstairs: the room is yours man!
[01:18] <scott-upstairs> oh, okay
[01:19] <scott-upstairs> for those who haven't seen it, here is the website development page:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TaskWebRevamp
[01:19] <scott-upstairs> i don't really have a plan, maybe we should open it up to see people's thoughts
[01:20] <holstein> i do like the darker ones
[01:20] <rlameiro> i really like the first dark theme
[01:20] <stochastic> I personally like the "Impact" theme as a mockup - does need a touch of refining though
[01:21] <holstein> yeah, impact is great
[01:21] <rlameiro> yeap, i dont dislike it either
[01:21] <rlameiro> it has a more clean look
[01:21] <scott-upstairs> i like the dark theme for audio horizons, namely the layout and the functionality already presented
[01:21] <holstein> audio horizons seems very polished
[01:21] <holstein> you guys think its too busy?
[01:22] <scott-upstairs> it seems the major consensus is that *a* dark theme is preferred
[01:22] <rlameiro> I dont.... but i am no designer
[01:22] <rlameiro> scott-upstairs: i would say yes
[01:22] <rlameiro> at leas to be on pair of the ubuntustudio theme
[01:22] <stochastic> in general I think the final look of the revamped site is on its way, however the next major obstacle for us to concentrate on is the functionality changes of the new site
[01:23] <scott-upstairs> stochastic, would a breakdown of functionality per page help?
[01:23] <stochastic> holstein, I would say I find audio horizons to be a touch busy
[01:23] <rlameiro> I think on planet
[01:23] <superchinawokvid> impact is the way to go
[01:23] <rlameiro> voting?
[01:23] <holstein> i like them both
[01:23] <holstein> i think i would have to go with impact in a vote now though
[01:24] <rlameiro> superchinawokvid , axman1971  pitch in when you see fit please
[01:24] <scott-upstairs> i'm good with impact if we can incorporate some of audio horizon's functionality into it
[01:24] <stochastic> rlameiro, a vote would be a good thing - then we can settle on one design and refine it
[01:24] <holstein> scott-upstairs: agreed
[01:24] <rlameiro> yes, that goes on the direction stochastic pointed, functionality
[01:24] <superchinawokvid> okay
[01:25] <rlameiro> well should we vote?
[01:25] <superchinawokvid> yes
[01:25] <superchinawokvid> lets do it
[01:25] <rlameiro> I will start
[01:25] <scott-upstairs> #OKAY, VOTE EITHER "AUDIO HORIZONS" OR "IMPACT"
[01:25] <rlameiro> #AH
[01:25] <holstein> impact +1
[01:25] <superchinawokvid> "IMPACT"
[01:25] <tomwilso> impact
[01:25] <stochastic> #IMPACT
[01:25] <scott-upstairs> looks like impact is it :)
[01:26] <holstein> i think the impacts have it
[01:26] <rlameiro> ok.
[01:26] <rlameiro> design choosed
[01:26] <superchinawokvid> i think it makes the most sense
[01:26] <rlameiro> now to the stuff
[01:26] <holstein> yeah
[01:26] <rlameiro> #NEWS --------------------------------------------------------------
[01:27] <holstein> stochastic: do you feel like the functionality changes are being addressed?
[01:27] <scott-upstairs> one thing i do like about audio horizons is the landing page how he has tabs that bring up differnet information about ubuntu studio
[01:27] <holstein> scott-upstairs: i like that as well
[01:27] <rlameiro> scott-upstairs: impact has a top menu
[01:27] <stochastic> holstein, is that not what we're about to start discussing?
[01:27] <holstein> however, i thought it was one of the things that made me find it busy
[01:27] <stochastic> maybe I should explain what I mean by functionality discussion
[01:28] <holstein> stochastic: yeah, i was just wanting to hear more about what your thouhts were
[01:29] <stochastic> In Drupal (or Wordpress if we decide to switch to that) we will be faced with a task of loading new modules in for many of the items suggested under the "rough site map" section - items like developer's blog aggregation, social media integration, or user suggestions
[01:29] <rlameiro> I dont want to be picky, but we should have some solid and firm decisions about the site today, in order to give directions to the people that will build the site
[01:30] <stochastic> all of these new modules of the site will need to be approved by canonical's security review panel before we're allowed to load them onto their servers (assuming we stick with canonical hosting)
[01:30] <holstein> rlameiro: agreed
[01:31] <stochastic> all of these approvals will take time and effort
[01:31] <tomwilso> Social media integration is definately the way to go I think
[01:31] <stochastic> so we should probably look over each of the "features" of that listing and start to pick ones that are higher priority and lower priority
[01:31] <scott-upstairs> excellent idea
[01:31] <holstein> stochastic: i like it
[01:31] <rlameiro> stochastic: agreed
[01:32] <holstein> your looking at the proposed site map?
[01:32] <rlameiro> I think top priority is Examples
[01:32] <rlameiro> show workflows etc
[01:32] <scott-upstairs> stochastic, i would like to stay with canonical hosting if viable
[01:32] <scott-upstairs> it just seems practical for the long term
[01:32] <stochastic> scott-upstairs, I agree totally on staying with canonical - it just makes the most sense
[01:32] <scott-upstairs> due to funding, i should add
[01:33] <rlameiro> well, canonical has a set of #LoCo Modules and other stuff pre aproved, at least for drupal
[01:33] <holstein> i think we can vote on that if needed
[01:33] <holstein> i agree on staying with connonical
[01:33] <stochastic> rlameiro, do you know where a list of those drupal modules are?
[01:33] <holstein> even if we have to scrap some features
[01:33] <rlameiro> stochastic: digging
[01:34] <scott-upstairs> we might even consider having a series of short meeting if necessary
[01:34] <stochastic> tomwilso, what type of social media integrations do you think would be needed for the site?
[01:34] <rlameiro> http://profarius.com/content/ubuntu-drupal-modules-released
[01:34] <holstein> i agree with some social media integration
[01:35] <holstein> but we dont want to detract from the forums that are already in place
[01:35] <holstein> maybe just highlight them
[01:35] <scott-upstairs> i think that social media might be one of the lower priorities at this point
[01:36] <holstein> going with something like drupal is a great idea though
[01:36] <holstein> its easy-ish to go in and add things later
[01:36] <holstein> without drastically revamping the whole thing
[01:36] <stochastic> holstein, we're already running drupal so that does make the most sense for the future
[01:36] <rlameiro> and AFAIK is the most used tool in ubuntu for websites
[01:36] <holstein> adding a module
[01:36] <holstein> here and there
[01:37] <rlameiro> cant connect to ubuntu servers... weird
[01:37] <rlameiro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCreatingWebsite
[01:37] <rlameiro> can someone try this?
[01:37] <rlameiro> it doesnt open
[01:37] <scott-upstairs> i'm having trouble as well rlameiro
[01:38] <rlameiro> ok, canonical webservers might be down
[01:38] <tomwilso> stochastic, really just facebook so that artists and musicians on facebook can "like" or be friends with Ubustu site,  maybe occasional updates when new things happen on the site
[01:38] <rlameiro> dont refres the trevamp wiki!!!!
[01:38] <holstein> http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCreatingWebsite
[01:38] <holstein> tomwilso: OK
[01:38] <holstein> that should be easy enough
[01:38] <holstein> and its just a link on the site
[01:39] <holstein> shouldnt be any security concer
[01:39] <stochastic> scott-upstairs, would you possibly be able to itemize what you think the priority feature set would be - I recall your ideas in this area to be fairly potent
[01:39] <holstein> my ubuntu loco team has facebook links up
[01:39] <scott-upstairs> news section, downloads, screenshots, tutorials, links to help (forums, help.ubuntu), user contributed media are among those i think are top priority
[01:40] <rlameiro> for me the top most are some workflows
[01:40] <rlameiro> they already give a lot of information
[01:40] <rlameiro> wich software the distro has, how to use, how to connect jack et etc etc
[01:40] <scott-upstairs> FAQ as well
[01:40] <holstein> yeah
[01:41] <stochastic> FAQ can be a difficult page to do well
[01:41] <holstein> FAQ in help
[01:41] <scott-upstairs> i realize that most of the things i listed are probably simple pages not requiring special modules
[01:41] <holstein> could be
[01:41] <stochastic> scott-upstairs, quite right
[01:41] <rlameiro> and that is a good thing :D
[01:41] <stochastic> but blog aggregation would not be
[01:41] <rlameiro> stochastic: but ubuntu already has a planet
[01:42] <scott-upstairs> yes, but ubuntu studio planet would be music/graphic/video focused
[01:42] <rlameiro> maybe it only a matter of asking the code
[01:42] <stochastic> rlameiro, the planet module is still in development
[01:42] <stochastic> not stable yet
[01:42] <scott-upstairs> stochastic, it was really just a suggestion, not release critical in my opinion
[01:42] <rlameiro> well, but ubuntu uses it doesnt?
[01:42] <stochastic> no, that's differnet
[01:43] <rlameiro> i am not talking about the module
[01:43] <rlameiro> I am talking about a planet.ubuntustudio.org
[01:43] <rlameiro> not a module
[01:43] <rlameiro> it could be a segway to the stable module after
[01:44] <rlameiro> ok
[01:45] <rlameiro> maybe we should focus on the more important stuff
[01:45] <rlameiro> What is definetively needed for Natty launch?
[01:45] <holstein> in the site?
[01:45] <rlameiro> yes
[01:45] <scott-upstairs> my opinion is that our original focus for the feature set would be to help new and inexperienced users understand _what_ ubuntu studio is and _how_ to use it
[01:46] <holstein> rlameiro: i dont know if there is anything really natty specific yet
[01:46] <holstein> that we need to think about for the site
[01:46] <holstein> i cant think of anything...
[01:46] <rlameiro> isnt the idea to launch the new site at the same time?
[01:46] <holstein> just updating the links when its final and all that
[01:46] <holstein> rlameiro: AH
[01:46] <holstein> maybe
[01:46] <stochastic> I was under the impression that no timelines were determined yet
[01:46] <tomwilso> also what makes ubuntu studio a better choice for some over protools, logic (other than price)
[01:46] <rlameiro> ohh, my bad then
[01:46] <holstein> yeah, im not sure about the timeline
[01:47] <stochastic> scott-upstairs, I like that as the main focus
[01:47] <scott-upstairs> stochastic, thank you :)
[01:47] <holstein> tomwilso: yeah, i like that
[01:47] <rlameiro> Well, then we should set a timeline, or else it will take ages
[01:47] <holstein> tomwilso: i like the way ardour covers that
[01:47] <tomwilso> holstein: me too!
[01:47] <scott-upstairs> holstein, you have a link?
[01:48] <holstein> http://www.ardour.org/download
[01:48] <holstein> it doesnt look good
[01:48] <holstein> BUT
[01:48] <stochastic> a secondary focus could be marketing of Ubuntu Studio (this would cover tomwilso's idea)
[01:48] <holstein> the scrolling deal at the bottom
[01:48] <holstein> where you pay
[01:48] <holstein> where it lists the prices of other DAWs
[01:48] <scott-upstairs> stochastic, good idea and i have some ideas about that as well when we get to that :)
[01:48] <holstein> not really the way we would want to tackle it
[01:49] <holstein> since we are not going for donations like that
[01:49] <holstein> BUT i like the way the information is presented there
[01:49] <stochastic> a quick side question - have we ever gotten permission to make money off Ubuntu Studio products (i.e. should the store be deleted)?  TheMuso or Cory would know (maybe jussi?)
[01:49] <tomwilso> we could play on the fact the it is driven by like-minded musicians and artists for the sake of creativity and not by a corporation for the sake of a bottomlone
[01:49] <scott-upstairs> stochastic, part of the marketing would also be included on the landing page that audio horizons presents
[01:50] <holstein> to get a powerful computer with a DAW and something like JACK and all the MIDI and synths and everything else offered
[01:50] <holstein> who knows what that could cost
[01:50] <scott-upstairs> stochastic, i don't think the store ever got off the ground (i could be wrong)
[01:50] <scott-upstairs> but i was hoping to get that going again
[01:50] <scott-upstairs> but i wanted to settle some other things first before i dug into it (udpate seeds, website moving forward)
[01:51] <rlameiro> it could be nice, the money could go to pay devs to go to conferences
[01:51] <rlameiro> or sponsor the programming of a LV2 plugin:D
[01:51] <holstein> yeah, pay someone to write some things :)
[01:53] <rlameiro> well, we should focus...
[01:53] <holstein> yeah
[01:53] <holstein> we're approaching an hour
[01:53] <rlameiro> almost 2 AM over here
[01:53] <stochastic> okay, so we've narrowed down the primary focus of the features (and possibly a secondary one of marketing)
[01:53] <holstein> i think we're in a good spot
[01:53] <holstein> we could have another meeting about the site if needed
[01:54] <rlameiro> What would be inside the help menu?
[01:54] <holstein> seems like we got the basics
[01:54] <rlameiro> links to the forum
[01:54] <holstein> scott-upstairs: how do you feel about it
[01:54] <rlameiro> IRC
[01:54] <holstein> rlameiro: it could start that way
[01:54] <rlameiro> Wiki and help.ubuntu
[01:54] <holstein> FAQ's
[01:54] <rlameiro> where will the workflows get in?
[01:54] <stochastic> I'd sort of like to hear what the next few steps will be for the development of the site
[01:55] <rlameiro> scott-upstairs: ?
[01:55] <scott-upstairs> holstein, how do it feel about our current position?
[01:55] <holstein> yup
[01:55] <scott-upstairs> we seem to have made some definitive decisions
[01:55] <holstein> on moving forward with the site
[01:55] <scott-upstairs> i think we probably need to document some of them and prepare for the next meeting
[01:55] <rlameiro> I would say, at first implement the mockup on real
[01:56] <holstein> scott-upstairs: i like it
[01:56] <stochastic> does anyone have a server that can be dedicated to a mockup development?
[01:56] <scott-upstairs> stochastic, i do
[01:56] <rlameiro> ok
[01:56] <scott-upstairs> however, rlameiro, i think we should make a definitive list of what each page should entail before we move forward
[01:56] <rlameiro> for the next meeting, what nneds to be compiled?
[01:56] <tomwilso> rlameiro: workflows I would think would need to be one of the first things on the site after feature's as they really show what can be done and how
[01:57] <scott-upstairs> tomwilso, that would fall under showing people "how" to use ubuntu studio
[01:57] <scott-upstairs> and would definitely be included
[01:57] <rlameiro> Well, my idea is to have some splash to link to workflows
[01:57] <rlameiro> like Do stuff, check here how!
[01:57] <rlameiro> some kind of slogan like that
[01:58] <scott-upstairs> can we talk about a landing page?  do people like the idea, do they hate it?
[01:58] <tomwilso> scott-upstairs, rlameiro: I dig it!
[01:58] <holstein> what do we mean by landing page?
[01:58] <holstein> like a pre-home page?
[01:58] <stochastic> scott-upstairs, we should have a private chat after the meeting (if you have time) about setting up the mockup development then
[01:58] <rlameiro> I would vote on having a nice enphasis on a direct link to workflows on the landing page
[01:58] <scott-upstairs> stochastic, certainly
[01:58] <scott-upstairs> holstein, sort of
[01:58] <holstein> ive never liked landing pages
[01:59] <holstein> BUT im flexible
[01:59] <scott-upstairs> by landing page i wanted a simplistic page that gives a good overview of _what_ ubuntu studio is
[01:59] <scott-upstairs> think of who will be searching for the website
[01:59] <stochastic> I do think that a landing page would be best (and it is included in the already agreed upon "Impact" theme)
[01:59] <scott-upstairs> it's probably people that really don't know much about ubuntu studio
[01:59] <scott-upstairs> and they probably don't even understand exactly what it is
[01:59] <holstein> im sure i'll like it when its laid out properly
[01:59] <rlameiro> well, that would mean that the home menu will point to a different page or to landing page?
[01:59] <scott-upstairs> might even be people who are unfamiliar with linux/ubuntu
[02:00] <stochastic> scott-upstairs, I sort of disagree with that analysis of who will be searching for the site
[02:00] <stochastic> there are both those people, and our current user base
[02:00] <scott-upstairs> stochastic, i also include people who have installed it and want to learn how to use it
[02:00] <scott-upstairs> more
[02:00] <rlameiro> stochastic: i think something like you, we should provide to our current user base too
[02:00] <stochastic> every release our users return to the website to find the newest version - even the expert users
[02:01] <rlameiro> ok
[02:01] <rlameiro> voting
[02:01] <stochastic> the website serves a number of different scales of user - and we shouldn't ignore any of them
[02:01] <scott-upstairs> stochastic, really?  i figured most would go directly to the canonical server download page
[02:01] <rlameiro> LANDING PAGE ---- #YES or #NO
[02:01] <stochastic> #YES
[02:01] <scott-upstairs> #Yes
[02:01] <rlameiro> #YES
[02:02] <tomwilso> #yes
[02:02] <rlameiro> come on guys
[02:02] <holstein> #no
[02:03] <rlameiro> so it seems land page it is
[02:03] <holstein> landing page is a go :)
[02:03] <scott-upstairs> looks like we have a landing page, although that should be easy enough to change later if we don't like it
[02:03] <rlameiro> if it looks terrible, i think it is not mandatory to keep it tough :D
[02:03] <scott-upstairs> if i remember the little bit of drupal i learned before
[02:03] <rlameiro> ### LANDING PAGE ----> YES
[02:04] <rlameiro> ok, what will be inside of the landing page?
[02:04] <scott-upstairs> rlameiro,  i like the audio horizons first page
[02:05] <scott-upstairs> it gives a nice overview of ubuntustudio but has tabs to describe other aspects of it, like jack
[02:05] <holstein> that would be a way to mix the ideas together
[02:05] <holstein> use that layout for a landing page
[02:05] <rlameiro> I tought on having a kind of "rooling track" with different stuff
[02:05] <holstein> wouldnt have to have so much text
[02:05] <stochastic> The contents of the landing page would be determined by the final design of the site map
[02:05] <scott-upstairs> but i don't know if having "tab" is a go with drupal
[02:05] <holstein> and linkx
[02:06] <holstein> stochastic: is that the way it will be?
[02:06] <rlameiro> stochastic: ok, so should we move to content?
[02:06] <holstein> OR would that be the home page?
[02:06] <holstein> and the landing page just links to the home page?
[02:06] <rlameiro> holstein: it will be like a page with links to most important stuff
[02:06] <holstein> OK
[02:06] <stochastic> usually a landing page is the homepage - it just has a different layout than the content pages
[02:07] <rlameiro> so content???
[02:07] <rlameiro> Priority content?
[02:07] <stochastic> we basically need to refine the site map that has been roughed out on the wiki
[02:08] <rlameiro> ok, so we will pass by it now
[02:08] <stochastic> I think now that we have a priority focus and a secondary focus for the features the site map can be refined
[02:08] <rlameiro> ----#stay or #go------
[02:08] <stochastic> maybe someone could volunteer to draft a 2nd site map
[02:08] <rlameiro> #News
[02:09] <scott-upstairs> stochastic, i'd be happy to do it
[02:09] <rlameiro> do we need to know what to refine?
[02:09] <stochastic> sounds good to me, do others agree with scott doing that?
[02:09] <tomwilso> I agree
[02:10] <stochastic> rlameiro, I trust scott's judgement
[02:10] <rlameiro> i agree, I a like scott-upstairs judgement
[02:10] <rlameiro> lol
[02:10] <scott-upstairs> although i think it would be good to get other's involvement
[02:10] <scott-upstairs> i fear this might become too one-sided from my involvement
[02:10] <stochastic> true, tomwilso would you be interested in helping scott?
[02:10] <tomwilso> So what exactly are we trying to do with the site map? trm it down?
[02:11] <tomwilso> absolutely, what kind of timeline are we looking at?
[02:11] <rlameiro> you can discuss that directly with scott if you accept :D
[02:11] <stochastic> I'd just say look through the first draft and correct anything that seems not needed or add anything that's missing now that we understand the site goals more
[02:11] <tomwilso> I'm down
[02:11] <tomwilso> :)
[02:12] <rlameiro> stochastic: any technichal issues you would like to add, since you are the more experienced over here about the website and its canonical connection?
[02:12] <scott-upstairs> stochastic, how soon would you like the 2nd site map draft?
[02:12] <scott-upstairs> a week, two weeks?
[02:12] <stochastic> I'm not in any rush for it
[02:12] <stochastic> I'm still working 60+ hour weeks
[02:13] <stochastic> I'll let you set your own timeline
[02:14] <stochastic> rlameiro, I don't think there are any immediate considerations that need to be talked about
[02:14] <rlameiro> ok
[02:14] <rlameiro> so will it be Drupal or Wordpress?
[02:14] <rlameiro> do we need to vote?
[02:14] <stochastic> I don't see any reason to switch away from Drupal
[02:14] <rlameiro> this could possible have inplications on the design side that i am not aware
[02:15] <scott-upstairs> rlameiro, i think we can probably get most of the features we need via modules in either
[02:15] <rlameiro> I cant really vote on this matter, I think we should vote on the one that can provide more stability
[02:15] <rlameiro> and it seems to be drupal
[02:15] <rlameiro> since canonical uses it
[02:15] <rlameiro> ok
[02:15] <rlameiro> DRUPAL is it?
[02:16] <scott-upstairs> well, canonical seems to be using both these days
[02:16] <scott-upstairs> but i think there will be less friction if we stick with drupal at this moment
[02:16] <rlameiro> its one more thing that gets decided and out of the way
[02:17] <stochastic> I should publicly note that I have a copy of the current site (in it's entire server form) that we can work off of - though access to this should be kept very very tight, so I will not readily be giving out copies or anything
[02:17] <scott-upstairs> let's stick with drupal because it currently has many advantages for us
[02:17] <rlameiro> ok # Platform is DRUPAL
[02:18] <stochastic> yes, unless there are a group of developers that are much more comfortable with wordpress (which it doesn't sound like) then there's no reason to move away from Drupal
[02:18] <holstein> drupal +1
[02:18] <tomwilso> drupal for sure
[02:19] <rlameiro> ############ DRUPAL is the platform for the new site ###########
[02:19] <stochastic> I like drupal ;)
[02:19] <stochastic> let's go with drupal.
[02:19] <rlameiro> anything more about the site?
[02:20] <stochastic> rlameiro, I think we're probably good for toady.
[02:20] <rlameiro> ok
[02:21] <rlameiro> anything anyone want to pitch in about natty?
[02:21] <stochastic> should a next meeting time be estimated? like a month from now or so?
[02:21] <scott-upstairs> thank you everyone for participating, your involvement is both very helpful and appreciated
[02:21] <rlameiro> stochastic: did you know about pd extended comming into debian?
[02:21] <holstein> w00t
[02:21] <rlameiro> they are making a lot of packages
[02:21] <stochastic> rlameiro, I think you said something about that to me
[02:21] <holstein> great meeting guys :)
[02:21] <scott-upstairs> stochastic, i think having the next meeting in a month's time sounds good
[02:21] <stochastic> new years eve it is then
[02:22] <stochastic> ;)
[02:22] <rlameiro> scott-upstairs: about the website or the distro?
[02:22] <scott-upstairs> rlameiro,  i was thinking for the website actually
[02:22] <scott-upstairs> do you want to discuss the distro?
[02:22] <rlameiro> maybe we should aim at somewhere between christhmas and new year
[02:22] <rlameiro> ahh
[02:22] <holstein> maybe december 21st
[02:22] <rlameiro> I think distro will need some discussing before that
[02:22] <holstein> if that seems to soon
[02:23] <holstein> after the new year
[02:23] <rlameiro> at least for the testing stuff, and maybe backports
[02:23] <rlameiro> scott-upstairs: well, 21 seems a nice time to do both together...
[02:23] <rlameiro> 21 or around
[02:24] <tomwilso> I'm all for the 21st
[02:24] <holstein> seems like this is an OK time of day
[02:24] <holstein> i mean, you cant please everybody :/
[02:24] <rlameiro> stochastic: what is the best time for you? this?
[02:25] <rlameiro> its alittle bit late for european time.... starting the meeting at 1 AM
[02:25] <scott-upstairs> rlameiro, i think we probably shouldn't have both meetings together, we'd end up with a 2 hour meeting
[02:25] <rlameiro> but I am a night Owl...anyway
[02:25] <scott-upstairs> we are already at 1:30
[02:26] <rlameiro> scott-upstairs: yea.. true
[02:26] <holstein> rlameiro: we cant really go much earlier
[02:26] <holstein> folks getting out of work
[02:26] <rlameiro> maybe some agenda will be needed for next meetings
[02:26] <rlameiro> holstein: I get it, i just were justifying the people that couldnt make it
[02:27] <stochastic> this meeting started at 5pm on my "sunday" and I occasionally do have a shift that starts at 6pm that day, a day earlier would be just fine for me at almost any hour
[02:27] <rlameiro> DEC. 20 could be
[02:27] <holstein> we could try the weekend
[02:28] <holstein> maybe 4p on a sunday
[02:28] <holstein> EST
[02:28] <tomwilso> works great for me :)
[02:28] <rlameiro> ...... not good idea, family and stufff, we should enforce time off :D
[02:28] <holstein> more like 9p for you rlameiro
[02:28] <rlameiro> for me its ok, but i dont know for scott
[02:29] <holstein> well, think about it
[02:29] <holstein> i'll probably just go for the same time on the 21st
[02:29] <holstein> for now
[02:29] <scott-upstairs> i'm good for almost any time
[02:29] <rlameiro> wait a sec..
[02:29] <scott-upstairs> holstein, can we make it on a tuesday for stochastic
[02:29] <scott-upstairs> ?
[02:30] <holstein> yeah
[02:30] <holstein> 21st is a tuesday
[02:30] <holstein> IF we're talking december
[02:30] <rlameiro> holstein you coul set a doodle
[02:30] <rlameiro> http://www.doodle.com
[02:31] <holstein> rlameiro: i'll bookmark that
[02:31] <holstein> and give it a look
[02:31] <holstein> anything to simplify the process ;)
[02:31] <rlameiro> ok
[02:31] <rlameiro> finished then??
[02:31] <holstein> i feel good :)
[02:31] <rlameiro> scott-upstairs: close the beast man!
[02:32] <stochastic> usually official meeting dates are posted to the ubuntu fridge
[02:32] <holstein> stochastic: maybe i'll hit you up on how to make that happen
[02:32] <holstein> or i'll ask akgraner
[02:32] <rlameiro> stochastic: are you still DJing?
[02:33] <stochastic> rlameiro, nope, no time to these days
[02:33] <holstein> alright... im off for a bit... thanks again
[02:33] <rlameiro> stochastic: sad man :(
[02:33] <stochastic> still have the equipment, but just don't use it
[02:33] <scott-upstairs> ubuntu servers are back up apparently
[02:33] <rlameiro> yep they are
[02:34] <rlameiro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDrupal
[02:37] <tomwilso> have a great night all!
[02:37] <tomwilso> I enjoyed it very much
[02:37] <rlameiro> tomwilso: you too
[02:38] <rlameiro> well it was a great meeting
[02:39] <rlameiro> a little bit confusing but :D some progress were made :D
[02:39] <rlameiro> thanks scott-upstairs and stochastic and superchinawokvid and holstein
[02:39] <rlameiro> cya all later
[02:39] <rlameiro> bye
[02:39] <scott-upstairs> thank you rlameiro and very true
[02:40] <superchinawokvid> thanks everyone for participating
[02:40] <superchinawokvid> i just got back from work
[02:40] <superchinawokvid> im sorry i couldnt contribute much
[07:12]  * abogani waves all
[17:39] <scott-work> TheMuso:  there is a report about ubuntustudio pre-alpha1 image not running a windows manager, do you think this might have anything to do with removing the desktop seed?
[17:42] <scott-work> sorry, we removed desktop-common
[18:23] <paultag> Wait, you did what?
[18:24] <paultag> I thought that has deps for the X11 and everything, so that the other seeds don't have to spec that, so long as it provides an X11 server + window manager
[18:24] <paultag> otherwise it starts doing silly things
[18:24] <paultag> I thought
[20:39] <TheMuso> scott-work: Don't know without checking for myself to be honest.
[20:39] <TheMuso> scott-work: There is a good chance that something is crashing though.
[20:39] <scott-work> TheMuso: sorry if i bugged you while you were asleep
[20:39] <TheMuso> Likely compiz, as its rather new at the moment.
[20:39] <TheMuso> np
[20:40] <scott-work> compiz was updated?  changes because of unity?
[20:42] <TheMuso> Yes.
[21:03] <scott-work> hmmm, unfortunate timing coinciding with the seeds update :/
[21:04] <holstein> disable compiz?
[21:08] <scott-work> i've been working on the ubuntu studio team report  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamReports/10/November
[21:08] <scott-work> if anyone wants to add anything, please feel free :)
[21:15] <scott-work> TheMuso:  i would be happy to assist you in anyway i can, i can even leave work early today if needed
[21:16] <TheMuso> scott-work: assist with what?
[21:17] <scott-work> TheMuso:  with the compiz situation
[21:17] <TheMuso> ah I don't know whats going on there.
[21:17] <TheMuso> Just that people have been experiencing crashes even for vanilla ubuntu