[03:45] <AskUbuntu> MAAS and Openstack Network | http://askubuntu.com/q/482090
[04:11] <AskUbuntu> Add Nodes to MAAS for JUJU Bundle | http://askubuntu.com/q/482094
[07:55] <bigjools> rvba: care to review? short one: https://code.launchpad.net/~julian-edwards/maas/static-allocation-of-existing-ips/+merge/222904
[07:56] <rvba> bigjools: sure
[07:56] <bigjools> cheers, bbiab, eating
[08:06] <jtv> Who wants an easy review?  They might find one at https://code.launchpad.net/~jtv/maas/lint-2014-06-11/+merge/222905
[08:07] <jtv> (Actually, a surprisingly large diff.  Removed a lot of trailing whitespace from documentation.)
[08:16] <rvba> jtv: I'll take it
[08:18] <jtv> Je vous remercie.
[08:18] <jtv> Or something equally French-sounding.
[08:19] <rvba> heh
[14:07] <AskUbuntu> Ubuntu MAAS DHCP working DNS Not working | http://askubuntu.com/q/482313
[14:13] <jpds> AskUbuntu: You can set a DNS server in the web UI.
[16:45] <AskUbuntu> problem with login node on maas via ssh | http://askubuntu.com/q/482396
[18:07] <sebas5384> hello!
[18:08] <sebas5384> i'm starting an infrastructure project, and i would like to use Juju
[18:09] <sebas5384> but because I can't use services like Amazon, i have machines already provided
[18:09] <sebas5384> so i want to use maas to map them as nodes
[18:09] <sebas5384> and they are VMs
[18:11] <sebas5384> so, my question is, even not being a real bare metal, would be right or logic to use maas with juju in this case?
[18:11] <sebas5384> or I should go with the juju manual provisioning env type?
[18:21] <sebas5384> hmmm so I sow the power type virsh
[18:25] <jtv> sebas5384: you can do that with maas, but it won't _create_ the vms for you.
[18:28] <sebas5384> great! automating the creation of vms is another client's battle i will have in the future hehe
[18:28] <sebas5384> thanks jtv :)
[18:28] <sebas5384> now they are using vmware
[18:42]  * jtv is away now


[00:01] <wallyworld_> thumper: i forwarded an email
[00:01] <wallyworld_> but you will need a previous one where the creds were sent
[00:01] <wallyworld_> i think you should have received both of those emails
[00:01] <thumper> probably
[00:02] <thumper> probably ignored them too
[00:02] <wallyworld_> lol
[00:02] <wallyworld_> so, i just source the creds and can then ssh in to that ip address
[00:02] <wallyworld_> then you can bzr pull the new rev as needed for ehatever source tree
[00:03] <wallyworld_> the bot uses a cron job to wake up every minute
[00:15] <davecheney> is the bot still alive
[00:15] <davecheney> has canonistack eaten that machine ?
[00:19] <thumper> davecheney: the bot is still there
[00:19] <thumper> it failed to merge my branch
[00:19] <thumper> because I use an updated crypto
[00:21] <thumper> lunchbreak means going to the supermarket with kids - always fun...
[01:01] <axw> hey thumper, wallyworld_ - welcome back
[01:02] <wallyworld_> hi. wish i could say it's good to be back :-)
[01:02] <wallyworld_> you were back last week?
[01:02] <axw> yup
[01:02] <wallyworld_> would have been quiet
[01:02] <axw> yeah it was
[01:03] <axw> fortunately my stuff took long enough that it didn't need reviews yet :)
[01:03] <wallyworld_> :-)
[01:04] <wallyworld_> soooo hot here today. may need to jump in the pool at some point to cool off. we had record breaking temperatures over the weekend. 44 degrees
[01:04] <axw> ouch
[01:04] <wallyworld_> almost as bad today
[01:04] <axw> gonna be 39 here
[01:04] <axw> I thought that was bad
[01:04] <thumper> it is 18°C here
[01:04] <wallyworld_> we get it worse cause the hot air blows from west to east
[01:05] <wallyworld_> wish it were 18 here
[01:05] <axw> I could do 18
[01:10] <axw> thumper: are you waiting for another review on the ssh stuff?
[01:10] <thumper> axw: nah, I think it is all good
[01:10] <axw> I intend to use your GenerateKey function in an MP of mine
[01:10] <thumper> just need to hack the bot
[01:10] <axw> cool
[01:11] <axw> bot's broken?
[01:13] <thumper> just dependencies
[01:16] <bigjools> wallyworld_: only record breaking temps if you believe the shite in the paper
[01:16] <wallyworld_> bigjools: you saying the paper makes up the recorded temps?
[01:17] <bigjools> it misquotes
[01:17]  * bigjools finds a reference
[01:17] <wallyworld_> you need to take off your tin foil hat
[01:17] <wallyworld_> it has cooked your brain with the heat
[01:17] <bigjools> not wearing one, just papers like to sell papers so they dramatise
[01:17] <bigjools> talking about clamitous weather is known to sell more
[01:18] <bigjools> calamitous even
[01:18] <wallyworld_> well the temp on sat was about 4, right?
[01:18] <wallyworld_> 44
[01:18] <bigjools> was 46 here
[01:18] <wallyworld_> so what's the issue?
[01:18] <wallyworld_> that's what the paper reported
[01:19] <bigjools> "record breaking"
[01:19] <wallyworld_> well it was
[01:19] <bigjools> nope
[01:19] <wallyworld_> when was it hotter
[01:19] <bigjools> ...
[01:19] <bigjools> when did measurements start?
[01:19] <wallyworld_> several years ago it was 41 or 42
[01:19] <wallyworld_> 1800s
[01:20] <wallyworld_> don't tell me you are going to be a pedant and say it may have been hotter<PHONE_NUMBER>00 years ago
[01:21] <bigjools> sigh
[01:24] <thumper> axw: I've logged into the bot and updated go.crypto
[01:24] <thumper> axw: attempting to land again
[01:30] <axw> thumper: thanks
[01:30] <axw> thumper: how come dependencies.tsv didn't do it?
[01:31] <axw> or did you not update that file?
[01:31] <thumper> axw: apparently the bot doesn't update based on that yet
[01:31] <thumper> so I'm told
[01:31] <axw> oh
[01:31] <thumper> I assumed it did
[01:31] <axw> just the LP recipe I guess
[01:37] <thumper> wallyworld_: where is the tarmac log on that machine?
[01:38] <wallyworld_> thumper: ~tarmac/logs i think
[01:39] <thumper> wow, doesn't log much useful
[01:39] <thumper> can see it is merging my code though
[01:39] <thumper> and done
[01:39] <wallyworld_> \o/
[04:40]  * thumper is done for the day
[04:40] <thumper> see y'all tomorrow
[08:15] <rogpeppe> mornin' all
[08:19] <TheMue> heya and happy new year
[08:35] <jam> hi rogpeppe and TheMue
[08:35] <rogpeppe> jam, TheMue: hiya
[08:36] <rogpeppe> and happy new year to you too
[10:02] <mgz> morning!
[10:04] <jam> morning mgz, just finishing up my 1:1 with rogpeppe, will chat with you in a sec
[10:04] <mgz> jam, sure
[10:12] <jam> mgz: I'm ready
[10:13] <mgz> jam: mumble?
[10:13] <jam> certainly, I'm there
[10:13] <mgz> almost
[10:13] <jam> well, I had been there, maybe it gets angry if you sit in an empty channel
[10:43] <jam> see you guys in the standup in a sec, just grabbing a coffee
[11:17] <jam> mgz: any idea how to recursively delete s3 buckets? The web interface requires you to empty buckets before you can delete them, but we have 50 "test" buckets that are left over
[11:25] <mgz> euca2ools should have something
[11:27] <mgz> hm, or maybe not, maybe you need the s3 command
[11:28] <jam> mgz: there is s3nukem http://robertlathanh.com/2010/07/s3nukem-delete-large-amazon-s3-buckets/
[11:29] <mgz> funny name
[11:29] <jam> mgz: adapted from s3nuke, but in a nice way :)
[11:32] <rogpeppe> natefinch: ha! it's another transient error - i retried and it succeeds after 2 seconds of returning that error...
[11:33] <rogpeppe> jam: s3cmd supports recursive removal
[11:34] <rogpeppe> jam: i seem to remember writing something to do concurrent recursive removal, but maybe i just piped the output of s3cmd into my concurrent xargs program
[13:59] <rogpeppe> jam: should juju 1.17.0 status work correctly against a 1.16.3 environment?
[14:04] <mgz> rogpeppe: it should fall back to reading the db
[14:05] <rogpeppe> mgz: it doesn't appear to be working
[14:05] <mgz> rogpeppe: so, if the db is compatible (we make sureit is...) it should be okay?
[14:05] <mgz> rogpeppe: can you tell if it's trying the api and failing... then?
[14:05] <rogpeppe> mgz: i just got a report that showed this status: http://hastebin.com/hudipomama.txt
[14:06] <mgz> that pastebin is much better for my silly detatched irc thing
[14:06] <mgz> shame it needs js...
[14:06] <mgz> well, that's pretty facinating
[14:07] <rogpeppe> mgz: yeah, that's what i thought
[14:07] <mgz> I assume you don't really have lots of machines? I wonder what all the ds are
[14:07] <rogpeppe> mgz: that's not my status, it's from a real installation
[14:07] <rogpeppe> mgz: they were using juju-devel ppa, not juju stable
[14:07] <mgz> ah, so maybe the machines are semi-accurate
[14:08] <rogpeppe> mgz: i think so
[14:08] <mgz> but the state connection apparent;y didn't work at all
[14:08] <mgz> just the get machines from the ec2 api bit
[14:09] <mgz> when I hack-tested this, when we added the fallback, this all worked
[14:09] <rogpeppe> hmm
[14:09] <mgz> but of course, that's not what landed, and dimiter may well have not tested that, I know I didn't
[14:11] <mgz> rogpeppe: can you get them to file a bug?
[14:11] <rogpeppe> mgz: will do
[14:13] <rogpeppe> mgz: just to check: there should be no probs upgrading from 1.16.3 to 1.16.5, right?
[14:15] <mgz> I have not heard of any, and certainly that's our general minor version promise is
[14:15] <mgz> the bump past 1.16.3 is rougher than normal though
[14:15] <mgz> we added various things that wouldn't normally make a minor release, but not anything that should mess with upgrades really
[14:20] <sinzui> looks like dependencies.tsv is invalid again http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/job/prepare-new-version/745/console
[14:23] <mgz> sinzui: it does indeed
[14:23] <mgz> I'll land a fix
[14:24] <mgz> blame is tim, r2182
[16:42] <rogpeppe> natefinch: i'm never seeing the instances get out of StartupState. looks like getStatus is returning the state in "state", not "myState".
[16:42] <rogpeppe> natefinch: it'd be good to have a test for that in the replicaset package
[16:44] <rogpeppe> natefinch: ah, it's actually as documented
[16:53] <natefinch> rogpeppe: which is documented?
[16:54] <rogpeppe> natefinch: the fact that the state is returned in "state", not "myState"
[16:54] <natefinch> rogpeppe: weird, wonder where I got "myState" from
[16:54] <rogpeppe> natefinch: i've fixed that, but run straight into another problem - that the two secondaries never move out of "UNKNOWN" state
[16:54] <rogpeppe> natefinch: you didn't read far enough down the page :-)
[16:55] <natefinch> rogpeppe: those documentation pages are pretty long at times ;)
[16:55] <rogpeppe> natefinch: myState is the field used for the state of the server you're talking to
[16:55] <rogpeppe> natefinch: it seems my secondaries are never managing to connect to the primary
[16:55] <natefinch> rogpeppe: hmm weird
[16:55] <rogpeppe> natefinch: it might be something to do with the localhost issue, i suppose
[16:56] <rogpeppe> natefinch: whatever that issue might be...
[16:56] <natefinch> rogpeppe: arg, possibly.  sigh.
[16:57] <natefinch> rogpeppe: I should have tested the mystate vs. state thing, but I had been intentionally trying not to test mongo itself, assuming that if I gave it commands it accepts, it would do the right thing.
[16:58] <rogpeppe> natefinch: it did :-)
[16:58] <rogpeppe> natefinch: unfortunately StateupState == 0
[17:00] <mramm2> rogpeppe: mgz: you guys around?
[17:00] <rogpeppe> mramm2: i am
[17:01] <mramm2> sabdfl is looking to setup a sprint at bluefin end of january
[17:01] <mramm2> we are going to have 5 MAAS clusters in a box ready for testing then
[17:02] <mramm2> and will be developing a set of demo's that the sales engineers can use for deploying openstack
[17:02] <mramm2> and then solutions on top of openstack using those maas clusters
[17:02] <mramm2> and sabdfl would like juju core representation
[17:03] <rogpeppe> mramm2: bluefin?
[17:03] <rogpeppe> mramm: bluefin?
[17:03] <mgz> mramm: I'm here too
[17:03] <mramm> 12:01 mramm has left IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[17:03] <mramm> 12:01 mramm2: we are going to have 5 MAAS clusters in a box ready for testing then
[17:03] <mramm> 12:02 mramm2: and will be developing a set of demo's that the sales engineers can use for deploying openstack
[17:03] <mramm> 12:02 mramm2: and then solutions on top of openstack using those maas clusters
[17:03] <mramm> 12:02 mramm2: and sabdfl would like juju core representation
[17:03] <mramm> yep
[17:03] <mramm> bluefin
[17:04] <rogpeppe> mramm: sorry, what's bluefin?
[17:04] <mgz> representation at bluefin, I assume
[17:04] <mgz> rather than in a hangout or something
[17:04] <mramm> yep
[17:04] <rogpeppe> bluefin's a company?
[17:04] <sinzui> rogpeppe, our head office
[17:04] <mramm> it's the location of our offices
[17:04] <mgz> rogpeppe has first refusal, given I've been down recently, but it's an easy trip for me
[17:04] <rogpeppe> ah!
[17:05] <mgz> rogpeppe: worth going if you've not been before
[17:05] <mramm> rogpeppe is my preferred choice too
[17:05] <rogpeppe> i'd be happy to do it
[17:05] <mramm> unless you both want to go ;)
[17:05] <rogpeppe> but mgz has lots more MAAS experience than me
[17:05] <mramm> rogpeppe: I'll add you to the list
[17:06] <mramm> rogpeppe: that is true
[17:06] <rogpeppe> (i have never used MAAS)
[17:06] <mgz> nah, I have some specific maas knowledge that's probably not relevent here
[17:06] <mramm> but we should have a MAAS team member there too
[17:07] <rogpeppe> my openstack-fu is similarly limited
[17:07] <rogpeppe> but i'm fine in juju-core-land :-)
[17:08] <rogpeppe> mramm: do you know the actual dates?
[17:14] <rogpeppe> i'd quite like the opportunity to spend a bit more time around openstack stuff, actually
[17:21] <rogpeppe> natefinch: found the problem with the UNKNOWN thing - it takes 10s before the secondaries connect
[17:21] <rogpeppe> natefinch: my problem now is that the secondaries never seem to get out of STARTUP2STATE
[17:21] <natefinch> rogpeppe: ahh hmm ok.
[17:22] <natefinch> rogpeppe: we're not exactly speeding up the tests here ;)
[17:22] <rogpeppe> natefinch: indeed not
[17:26] <rogpeppe> natefinch: ah, found the problem, i think
[17:26] <rogpeppe> 2014/01/06 17:26:03 mongod:57236: Mon Jan  6 17:26:03.817 [conn4] key file must be used to log in with internal user
[17:28] <natefinch> rogpeppe: hmm... I didn't think you needed any authentication if you're connecting from localhost
[17:28] <rogpeppe> natefinch: i think it must be different for peers
[17:36] <rogpeppe> natefinch: bingo!
[17:36] <natefinch> rogpeppe: what did you find?
[17:37] <rogpeppe> natefinch: that was the reason, and now that i've done that, i've finally seen a  [PRIMARY SECONDARY SECONDARY] status...
[17:37] <natefinch> well good
[17:39] <rogpeppe> natefinch: it took about 30s from starting to wait for sync, to fully synced (that's with an empty db), and about 42 seconds from no-servers-running
[17:39] <natefinch> rogpeppe: ug
[17:39] <rogpeppe> natefinch: this is not the fastest sync in the world :-)
[17:40] <natefinch> rogpeppe: 30s to sync no data is pretty bad ;)
[17:40] <natefinch> rogpeppe: on localhost no less
[17:40] <rogpeppe> natefinch: for the record, here's the log of what was going on during that time: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6704366/
[17:43] <natefinch> rogpeppe: wonder if this has anything to do with it: "noprealloc may hurt performance in many applications"  honestly, I wouldn't think anything coudl hurt performance that badly with empty DBs on localhost
[17:44] <rogpeppe> natefinch: i agree - i don't think noprealloc could harm anything here
[17:44] <rogpeppe> natefinch: no data on an SSD
[17:53] <natefinch> rogpeppe: does it matter if it's an SSD if no data is there?   (there's a profound question question ;)
[17:54] <rogpeppe> natefinch: well, it might be doing *something* in that 30 seconds....
[17:54] <rogpeppe> natefinch: i'm thinking that the 30s might be due to the 10s heartbeart
[17:54] <rogpeppe> natefinch: 3 heartbeats for the status to propagate around the system
[18:20] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: happy new year!
[18:21] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: i'd like to confirm something about mgo, if you have a moment at some point
[18:22] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Heya
[18:22] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Thanks, and happy new year :)
[18:22] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Shoot
[18:23] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: if i've performed an operation on a Session, it it possible that the session changes to use a different server at some point in the future (without doing anything explicit, such as SetMode) ?
[18:23] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: from my current experiments, it seems like that doesn't happen, but i'd like to be sure
[18:23] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Depends on the current mode of the session.. if on Strong mode, no
[18:24] <niemeyer> (Strong is the default, FWIW)
[18:25] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: so if it's in Monotonic, it may switch without any explicit intervention?
[18:26] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: If it's Monotonic, it will switch deterministically on writes
[18:26] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: currently, i seem to get an EOF error even in Monotonic mode, but perhaps that might resolve itself if I keep trying
[18:26] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: From a slave to the master
[18:26] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: (that's the whole point of Monotonic)
[18:26] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: ah, but not if a primary goes down and is replaced by another one?
[18:27] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: If besides the primary that was the single server alive, then surely it'll break as suggested
[18:27] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: After it fails, it will not switch
[18:27] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: in this case there were two secondaries
[18:27] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Or even reconnected without an ack from the code
[18:27] <niemeyer> reconnect
[18:27] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: but that's good to know
[18:28] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: In that case the behavior depends on whether the session was already hooked to the master
[18:28] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: my current plan is to make the single-instance workers (provisioner, firewaller, etc) move with the mongo master
[18:28] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: If the session was hooked to the mater, and the connection drops due to a server shutdown, you'll get an EOF
[18:28] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: that's the behaviour I want to rely on
[18:29] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: That EOF will not go away until: a) THe session is Closed, discarded, and re-created b) The session is Refresh'ed
[18:29] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: You want to rely on the fact the error doesn't go away?
[18:29] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: if that happens, we'll redial and run the workers if we are on the same machine as the mongo primary
[18:29] <niemeyer> rogpeppe:  You don't have to redial.. just Refresh the session at the control point
[18:30] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: i want to rely on the fact that if the primary gets reelected, that we're guaranteed to get an error so that we know for sure that we've not got two "single-instance" workers running at the same time
[18:31] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: that's useful to know, thanks
[18:31] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: You'll not get an error if a primary gets re-elected and the session was not hooked to it
[18:31] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: for those workers' connection to the State, i'd use a direct connection in strong mode
[18:31] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: E.g. a Monotonic session that got no writes will be hooked to a slave, assuming one is available
[18:32] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: That session has no reason to error out if the primary shifts
[18:32] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: it will get an error though, right?
[18:33] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Hmm.. these two last sentences contradict each other.. :)
[18:33] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: so it'll be difficult to avoid (say) an API call failing because the primary shifts
[18:33] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: It will NOT error out if the primary shifts, because it was connected to a slave.. it doesn't care about the fact the primary went through trouble
[18:33] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: ah, but if it happens to be connected to the primary, then it will error out, right?
[18:33] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: It really depends on how you're structuring the code.. let me give an example
[18:34] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: so i guess it's down to chance
[18:34] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Let's say you have an http server that creates a new session to handle each request
[18:34] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Now, the primary just broke down, but there were no requests being serve
[18:34] <niemeyer> d
[18:34] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Then, the primary gets re-elected..
[18:35] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: The driver picks up the new master, resyncs, and keeps things up
[18:35] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Finally, the http server gets a new request to handle
[18:35] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: and runs Copy on a master session, creating a new session to handle this specific request
[18:35] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: This new request will not error out..
[18:36] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: As it was a fresh session to a working server
[18:36] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: ok
[18:36] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: It's not down to chance, any more than a TCP connection breaking due to a temporary outage on the packet path is down to chance
[18:36] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: (that doesn't apply easily to our case, because we've got very long-lived http requests)
[18:37] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: If there is a long-living session that is active (was used, not refreshed), the error will surface
[18:37] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: It doesn't pretend that things are sane when they're not
[18:38] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: ok
[18:38] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: No need for the direct mode for that, btw
[18:40] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: apart from the fact that Refresh presumably uses more up-to-date info for the server addresses, is there a significant difference between using Dial and using Refresh?
[18:41] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Oh yeah
[18:41] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Dial creates an entire new cluster
[18:41] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Syncing up with every server of the replica set to figure their state and sanity
[18:41] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Refresh is very lightweight
[18:41] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: ok, that's good to know
[18:42] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: It just cleans the session state and moves sockets back to the pool, assuming they're in a sane state
[18:42] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: can I rely on the fact that err==io.EOF implies that the server has gone down and a Refresh could clean it up?
[18:42] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: No.. EOF means socket-level EOF
[18:42] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Whatever the reason why that happened
[18:43] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: ah, ok. is there a decent way of telling that the server has gone away and i need to refresh?
[18:43] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: But you can always refresh on errors
[18:43] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: and once/if the server works again, the new session will behave properly again
[18:43] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: IOW, no reason to reconnect
[18:43] <niemeyer> s/reconnect/redial/
[18:44] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: In fact, you can always refresh at the control point
[18:44] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: With errors or not
[18:44] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: after every API call?
[18:45] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: No.. by control point I mean the place where the code falls back to on every iteration
[18:45] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: For example, if there was a loop, it might be refreshed on every iteration of the loop to get rid of already acknowledged errors
[18:45] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: If it's an http request, it might refresh before every Accept (although that doesn't quite fit, since there would be multiple requests on any realistic server)
[18:46] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Rarely in an application it would be okay to assume errors didn't happen, mid-logic
[18:46] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: i'm not quite sure how that would map to our code structure
[18:47] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: the main loop is in the rpc package, reading requests from the websocket and invoking methods
[18:48] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: What happens if an error happens in the middle of a request from the client being handled?
[18:48] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: the error gets returned to the client
[18:48] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Okay, and I assume each client has its own session to the server?
[18:49] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: yes
[18:49] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Okay, so you might Refresh before starting to handle a new RPC, for example
[18:49] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: it's a bit of a bad spot for us currently - we don't ever redial or refresh the connection for API requests
[18:49] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: ok, so Refresh really is that (<0.1ms) light weight?
[18:50] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Yeah
[18:50] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: It's literally clean the session and put socket back in the pool
[18:50] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: mem-ops only
[18:51] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: cool
[18:51] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: so it doesn't matter if lots of ops call it concurrently whenever they like
[18:51] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Yep, no problem
[18:52] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Note that if you have multiple goroutines using a single session in a way that they might potentially call Refresh concurrently, that's not quite okay
[18:52] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: oh
[18:52] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: As they might be cleaning up errors from each other that ought to be acted upon
[18:52] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: That's why I asked whether each client has its own session
[18:53] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: (that's definitely the case for us, as *state.State holds a single *mgo.Session)
[18:53] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: ah, i misunderstood session there
[18:53] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: even if each client had its own session, it still wouldn't be ok, as one client can have many concurrent calls
[18:54] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: It's fine to use sessions concurrently, but if there's a fatal error in a session that is being concurrently used, the correct behavior is to let all goroutines see such error, as whatever they were doing got interrupted
[18:54] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: i'm not sure i quite see how one Refresh might "clean up" an error from another
[18:55] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: won't whatever they were doing be locked to a particular socket (during that operation), and therefore draw the correct error anyway?
[18:55] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: If such a concurrently used session gets Refresh calls while other goroutines are using it, such a fatal error may be incorrectly swiped under the carpet
[18:56] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: I don't get your previous points
[18:56] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: If a single session is used concurrently, it's a single session
[18:56] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: If that single session sees a fatal error in its underlying socket, it's the same socket (assuming Strong or Monotonic modes)
[18:56] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: for all code using it
[18:58] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: don't operations do Session.acquireSocket before doing something?
[18:59] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: That in itself is irrelevant
[18:59] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: A session gets a socket associated with it
[18:59] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Assuming Strong or Monotonic mode
[19:00] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: There's no magic.. if such a session gets an error while it has an associated socket, and it's being concurrently used, all the concurrent users should observe the fault
[19:00] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: could you expand on why we want that to be the case?
[19:02] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Sure
[19:02] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Imagine the perspective of any of the concurrent users of the session
[19:02] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: When a session is re-established, it won't necessarily be to the same server
[19:03] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: ah, so for Monotonic mode, we might suddently skip events in the log?
[19:03] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: and depending on the mode, it may even walk history backwards (master socket becoming slave socket)
[19:03] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: that doesn't apply in Strong mode, presumably?
[19:04] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: ah, i guess it can
[19:04] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: unless Wmode==Majority
[19:04] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: That's irrelevant
[19:05] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: This just means a writer won't consider the write successful until it reaches a majority
[19:05] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: This point in time can easily happen without a particular slave reader observing the data
[19:06] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: is it possible that one of the ones that wasn't part of that majority is elected primary?
[19:06] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: (i thought the election process took into account up-to-dateness)
[19:06] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Again, that's a separate problem
[19:06] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: We're talking about someone that is actively *reading from a slave*
[19:06] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: It doesn't matter who the master is
[19:06] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: i thouht that couldn't happen in Strong mode
 rogpeppe: and depending on the mode, it may even walk history backwards (master socket becoming slave socket)
[19:07] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: I did say "depending on the mod"
[19:07] <niemeyer> mode
[19:07] <rogpeppe> [19:03:56] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: that doesn't apply in Strong mode, presumably?
[19:07] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Ah, sorry, okay
[19:07] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: It can *still* happen
[19:08] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: If a failure happens before the majority was reached
[19:08] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: ah
[19:09] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Of course, we're getting into very unlikely events
[19:09] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: indeed, but it's nice to have some idea of these things
[19:09] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: As the re-election will still attempt to elect the most up-to-date server, despite majority concerns
[19:11] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: i wonder if a reasonable approach might be to Copy the session for each RPC call
[19:11] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: That sounds fine
[19:11] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Easier to reason about too
[19:11] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: presumably there's no need to Refresh such a copy?
[19:11] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: No, as it's being Closed after the RPC is handled
[19:12] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: The session is buried, and the (good) resources go back to the pool
[19:14] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: ok, that's useful, thanks
[19:15] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: My pleasure
[19:15] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: I'll head off to a coffee break
[19:15] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: i shall head to supper
[19:15] <niemeyer> Still on holiday this week, btw
[19:15] <niemeyer> Should send a note
[19:16] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: ah, well, thanks a lot for the chat!
[19:16] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Glad to chat
[19:28] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: FYI I tried Refreshing the session after an error, but I can't get it to work - it seems to try connecting to the old primary and never trying the old secondaries
[19:29] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: (when i was redialling with all the peer addresses, it worked)
[21:31] <thumper> o/


[00:23] <sassyn> hi akk
[00:23] <sassyn> all
[00:23] <sassyn> *
[00:24] <sassyn> I kind of lost in the last week
[00:24] <sassyn> with an issue I have
[00:24] <sassyn> and maybe someone can drop some light here
[00:24] <sassyn> I need to back port some pkg from ubuntu 14.04 to 10.04
[00:24] <sassyn> so I download the source pkg
[00:24] <sassyn> the .dsc
[00:25] <sassyn> and had to get some other sources from 14.04 and compile them as well
[00:25] <sassyn> some of then was need to be change as they used debhelp 9 and I have only 7 install in 10.04
[00:26] <sassyn> so at the end i manage to compile all pkg needed
[00:26] <sassyn> and got them install
[00:26] <sassyn> but know i want to do the same fro 10.10
[00:26] <sassyn> 11.04 etc..
[00:26] <sassyn> so i used pbuilder
[00:26] <sassyn> which took me like 3 days just to understand
[00:26] <sassyn> how to work with this
[00:27] <sassyn> and I know in a point where I have 12.04 install
[00:27] <sassyn> with pbuilder
[00:27] <sassyn> with image of 10.04 as base
[00:27] <sassyn> with local repo
[00:27] <sassyn> so when trying to do build for the source pkg from 14.04 i was thinking it will do it auto
[00:28] <sassyn> if some pkg will be missing
[00:28] <sassyn> i will do the same as i did with 10.04
[00:28] <sassyn> upload to my local repo
[00:28] <sassyn> and try again
[00:28] <sassyn> but as it seems to me i
[00:28] <sassyn> doing something wrong
[10:09] <cjwatson> michagogo|cloud: Sorry - my only suggestion at this point is that you find somebody who already knows how to package and can do it for you, then.  I'm afraid I don't have time to help
[18:46] <quidnunc> Is anyone on 13.04 and can confirm that uuid-dev is uninstallable?
[18:47] <teward> quidnunc: if you give me two minutes i can check in my 13.04 VM
[18:48] <quidnunc> teward: I would appreciate it
[18:48]  * teward is in the middle of diagnosing an sbuild chroot problem with his chroots
[18:50] <teward> !13.04
[18:50] <teward> quidnunc: actually, you know what...
[18:50] <teward> raring is EOL
[18:50] <teward> so why do you want to check an EOL release's installation stuff
[18:50] <quidnunc> teward: I'm still running it
[18:51] <quidnunc> teward: because I depend on docker I don't think they support anything later
[18:51] <quidnunc> (and I don't think)*
[18:51] <teward> first of all, i see several issues with that line of thinking, because 13.04 won't be getting any updates ever, so you're opening yourself to new security risks
[18:52] <teward> secondly, mind pastebinning or sharing your "can't install" errors?
[18:52] <quidnunc> So it looks like 13.10 is supported now.
[18:52] <quidnunc> by docker
[18:52] <quidnunc> So I guess I'll upgrade
[18:52] <quidnunc>  uuid-dev : Depends: libuuid1 (= 2.20.1-5.1ubuntu8) but 2.20.1-5.1ubuntu8.1 is to be installed
[18:52] <teward> that means that uuid-dev has an incorrect depends line
[18:53] <teward> but as it's in 13.04 that can't be fixed
[18:53] <quidnunc> teward: I know. Is it just me
[18:53] <teward> s/can't/won't/
[18:53] <quidnunc> teward: Alright.
[18:53] <teward> quidnunc: i doubt it, if 2.20.1-5.1ubuntu8.1 is libuuid1's version in 13.04 then that applies everywhere
[18:53] <quidnunc> docker supports 13.10 now so it's safe to upgrade
[18:53] <teward> (because that's an ubuntu revision number)
[18:54] <quidnunc> teward: There are many reasons why it could just be me: stale package list is one
[18:54] <teward> possibly (sudo apt-get update)
[18:54] <teward> quidnunc: i'm willing to test assuming that i can get my VM to launch
[18:54] <teward> i may have to rebuild it
[18:54] <teward> (but again, as 13.04 is End of Life, this error won't be fixed anywhere except locally)
[18:54] <quidnunc> teward: Never mind, I'll upgrade and try with saucy
[18:55] <teward> awww, but i'm bored :P  this would've given me something to do
[18:55] <teward> oh well
[18:55]  * teward goes back to trying to fix his sbuild chroots
[18:59] <teward> quidnunc: also, btw, i can't confirm your error, it looks like stale package info on your end really
[18:59] <teward> (even if 13.04 wasn't EOL, this is still just an error of stale data on your end)
[19:02] <quidnunc> teward: That's what I wanted to know, thanks :)
[19:03] <quidnunc> teward: What could be the cause? I did apt-get upgrade. I'm using archive.ubuntu.org
[19:03] <quidnunc> s/upgrade/update
[19:04] <teward> quidnunc: no idea, but as I said, 13.04 is EOL, so it's irrelevant
[19:04] <teward> and because you said this program you want supports 13.10 now, so...
[19:04] <quidnunc> teward: Somewhat relevant to me: It's going to take several hours to upgrade
[19:05] <teward> well, i'm not sure what the cause is... works fine here.  do you have some weird setup where you don't use -updates or something?
[19:06] <quidnunc> teward: No, it's there
[19:06] <quidnunc> teward: what version numbers do you have
[19:06] <quidnunc> ?
[19:06] <teward> quidnunc: i already shut down the VM
[19:06] <quidnunc> for libuuid1
[19:06] <teward> you'll have to wait a minute
[19:06] <quidnunc> teward: Okay, not important
[19:06]  * teward is in the middle of updating things
[19:06] <teward> nah i can load it in a minute
[19:08] <teward> quidnunc: oops i made a fail
[19:08] <teward> i didn't update it's package data from rebuild
[19:08] <teward> give me another minute
[19:10] <teward> quidnunc: do you have any weird PPAs, or the proposed repo enabled, or backports?
[19:10] <teward> because stock 13.04 has just libuuid1 2.20.1-5.1ubuntu8
[19:10] <teward> with just raring, raring-security, and raring-updates enabled
[19:10] <quidnunc> teward: raring-proposed
[19:10] <quidnunc> that's the problem
[19:11] <teward> yeah that is the issue
[19:11] <teward> quidnunc: you probably should not just blindly enable proposed, and should pin it and then only install what you need from proposed
[19:11] <quidnunc> teward: It actually is pinned, -120. I don't know how it got installed
[19:12] <teward> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/EnableProposed is usually what I use to pin proposed
[19:12] <teward> IDK then, but meh
[19:12] <quidnunc> teward: Thanks. I wouldn't have found the problem without your help
[19:12] <teward> you're welcome
[19:12] <teward> sorry if i seem grumpy, sbuild's having issues today >.>
[19:12] <teward> (all day long today too)
[19:14] <quidnunc> teward: You have my sympathy.


[14:04] <maco> meeting?
[14:04] <stgraber> bdrung, cody-somerville, persia, Laney: ping
[14:04] <Laney> \o
[14:06] <stgraber> hmm, let's hope someone else shows up
[14:09] <RoAkSoAx> o/
[14:09] <stgraber> hey RoAkSoAx. Waiting for another DMB member to show up so we have quorum.
[14:09] <RoAkSoAx> stgraber: alright!
[14:09] <RoAkSoAx> thanks
[14:10] <stgraber> (as we don't have any non-voting agenda item to discuss)
[14:10] <Laney> I'd like to annihilate all mention of universe-contributor and call it 'contributing developer' everywhere :-)
[14:10] <Laney> that is my one non-agenda wish
[14:11] <stgraber> Laney: about that, would there be any (known) problem with renaming the team?
[14:12] <Laney> not sure anything would depend on it
[14:12] <Laney> besides potentially documentation
[14:16] <ScottK> I'm not sure it's universally appropriate.
[14:17] <ScottK> For Kubuntu, Kubuntu Council will process people for Kubuntu (and transitively Ubuntu) membership based on packaging work.
[14:18] <Laney> people are still encouraged to approach the most specific council
[14:18] <Laney> universe contributor is misleading as that is not what we are looking for really
[14:19] <ScottK> As long as it's clear about most specific council, I think that's fine.
[14:30] <stgraber> hey geser!
[14:30]  * geser waves
[14:31] <stgraber> ok, we have quorum now, let's start
[14:31] <RoAkSoAx> YaY!!
[14:31] <stgraber> #startmeeting
[14:31] <MootBot> Meeting started at 08:31. The chair is stgraber.
[14:31] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[14:31] <stgraber> [TOPIC] PerPackageUploader Applications: Rosen Diankov
[14:31] <MootBot> New Topic:  PerPackageUploader Applications: Rosen Diankov
[14:32] <rdiankov> present!
[14:32] <stgraber> hi rdiankov
[14:32] <stgraber> can you introduce yourself quickly?
[14:32] <rdiankov> sure
[14:32] <rdiankov> i'm roboticist
[14:33] <rdiankov> in other words, working on AI problems involving perception and motion of machines
[14:33] <rdiankov> i'm also the developer of a openrave: the open robotics automation virtual environment
[14:33] <rdiankov> which is becoming very popular in the robotics community
[14:33] <rdiankov> because i'm primarily using ubuntu
[14:33] <rdiankov> and a lot of robotics guys are starting to use ubuntu
[14:34] <rdiankov> we would like to start offering these types of robotics packages
[14:34] <rdiankov> through the official venues
[14:34] <rdiankov> hence my application
[14:35] <rdiankov> there are also file format libraries like collada and assimp
[14:35] <rdiankov> which would be also great to get into ubuntu
[14:35] <geser> do any packages for openrave exist already?
[14:35] <stgraber> doh, geser was faster ;)
[14:36] <rdiankov> yes
[14:36] <rdiankov> https://launchpad.net/~openrave/+archive/release
[14:36] <rdiankov> i started a ppa
[14:36] <rdiankov> basically every ubuntu release cycle
[14:36] <stgraber> are any of these already in Ubuntu or Debian?
[14:36] <rdiankov> no
[14:37] <rdiankov> every ubuntu release cycle, it would be great if these packages are copied
[14:37] <rdiankov> and put into universe
[14:37] <rdiankov> or multiverse
[14:37] <rdiankov> because there are no dependencies on these packages
[14:38] <rdiankov> it shouldn't affect anything
[14:38] <stgraber> ok, the main problem here is that we can't give upload rights to packages that don't exist in Ubuntu. Once they are in the repository (through sponsoring by an existing ubuntu developer), we can then process applications for upload rights.
[14:39] <rdiankov> ok, how can we fine someone to sponsor them?
[14:39] <rdiankov> find*
[14:39] <stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages is the process for new packages
[14:39] <stgraber> #ubuntu-motu usually has people around to help review the packages and once they are happy with them, upload them for you
[14:40] <rdiankov> file a bug report in launchpad?
[14:40] <stgraber> they then will be reviewed by the archive admins and once they are happy with them, they'll be in Ubuntu. When that's done, you can then request Per-Package-Upload rights to them.
[14:41] <stgraber> yep, you'll need a needs-packaging bug per package, your changelog entry will need to close that bug (LP:#xxxxxx)
[14:41] <rdiankov> ok, got it guys
[14:41] <rdiankov> thanks!
[14:42] <stgraber> no problem!
[14:42] <stgraber> hope to see you apply again soon!
[14:42] <stgraber> [TOPIC]
[14:42] <MootBot> New Topic:
[14:42] <rdiankov> of course!
[14:42] <stgraber> oops (copy/paste issue)
[14:42] <geser> and don't forget your sponsor to add endorsements to your application
[14:42] <stgraber> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Contributing Developer Applications: Ricardo Salveti
[14:42] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Contributing Developer Applications: Ricardo Salveti
[14:43] <stgraber> hey rsalveti
[14:43] <rsalveti> hey!
[14:43] <rsalveti> I'm here today :-)
[14:43] <stgraber> hehe
[14:43] <stgraber> can you introduce yourself quickly?
[14:44] <rsalveti> Hi, I'm Ricardo Salveti, currently working mostly with Ubuntu on ARM. I'm deeply involved with Ubuntu development for about one year now, working helping maintaining x-loader, u-boot, omap kernel and some other cool packages for ARM :-)
[14:44] <rsalveti> I've being working with OSS for quite a while now, doing contributions in a large set of software, and as a distro developer I also worked for a while with OpenEmbedded and the debian based distro called Mamona (now basically dead).
[14:44] <rsalveti> Usually around #ubuntu-arm, trying to help people getting the most we can from our ARM images, by helping with bugfixing and adding hw support (kernel, x-loader, etc).
[14:45] <rsalveti> I applied for universe contributor but soon should also be applying for a dev role, like core-dev, just need to find time to prepare my application :-)
[14:46] <ScottK> rsalveti: How is your script for automatic FTBFS bug filing going?  I'm sure you recall our discussion on it?
[14:46] <Laney> oh, whoops, didn't noticed we'd started :P
[14:47] <rsalveti> ScottK: sure, I'm currently improving svammel to have a interactive step, so I can go over the FTBFS first before opening a bug
[14:47] <ScottK> That's good to hear.
[14:47] <rsalveti> I should be helping going over at least the FTBFS list for arm
[14:47] <rsalveti> only interested at the moment in arm specific build failures, as we can use more workforce from Linaro to help us fixing them
[14:50] <stgraber> in your "What I like least in Ubuntu", you mention our SRU process. I understand that the kernel team has a different SRU process (with a release every 3 weeks IIRC) but do you see a similar issue with non-kernel packages?
[14:51] <stgraber> In my experience, the SRU process improved a lot lately and I can usually get something fixed into -updates in a week (from getting the fix, uploading to -proposed, get it accepted, get it tested and then copied to -updates)
[14:51] <rsalveti> Yes, my feeling is that in general once a release is out, nobody actually cares a lot about them
[14:51] <rsalveti> so SRU ends up taking a lot of time
[14:51] <rsalveti> in the past (maverick) I had some issues with the kernel SRU in specific
[14:52] <rsalveti> that took almost 2 months to deliver the fix
[14:52] <rsalveti> and asking testing for more than one time, when they released another version that contained the fix
[14:53] <stgraber> was your (non-kernel) experience with a bug having a patch applied, taking long to get uploaded or in a case where the package got uploaded to -proposed and took a long time to get to -updates ?
[14:53] <rsalveti> my complain was both the time to get sponsored and also to hit -updates
[14:54] <rsalveti> I know it's a lot of work to keep the SRU in places, but sometimes we have issues that really affects the user
[14:54] <stgraber> was that before the patch pilot program got introduced?
[14:54] <stgraber> (trying to see if we're missing something on the sponsorship lists)
[14:55] <rsalveti> for bug 707794 (my latest work with an SRU) it took 10 days to get sponsored
[14:55] <rsalveti> against the pyside package
[14:55] <rsalveti> I belive this case is enough
[14:55] <rsalveti> I mean, the time it took
[14:56] <ScottK> Unfortunately that package takes forever to build on armel and not many potential sponsors have the hardware to test.
[14:56] <rsalveti> yeah, hopefully to get sorted with the panda build cluster
[14:57] <rsalveti> now one kernel example
[14:57] <rsalveti> bug 770679
[14:58] <rsalveti> pull request, and SRU request sent at May 18
[14:58] <rsalveti> it's fixed commited already
[14:58] <rsalveti> and it basically breaks support for beagle rev C
[14:58] <rsalveti> so at least for people using that hardware it's somehow critical
[14:59] <rsalveti> and the fix will only hits update in probably one month from now
[15:00] <rsalveti> but maybe something to bring directly with the kernel team :-)
[15:00] <stgraber> yeah, kernel SRUs tend to take a lot longer, not sure what can be done to improve the delay and still keep the same QA standards
[15:00] <stgraber> yep, if you have an idea of how to improve the delay, you probably should start a discussion on their ML or at next UDS
[15:00] <stgraber> anyway, any other question for rsalveti?
[15:00] <rsalveti> yup, will think better
[15:01] <Laney> none here
[15:01] <stgraber> maco, geser, Laney: ?
[15:01] <maco> no
[15:02] <geser> no
[15:02] <stgraber> [VOTE] Ubuntu Contributing Developer membership for Ricardo Salveti
[15:02] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Ubuntu Contributing Developer membership for Ricardo Salveti.
[15:02] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[15:02] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[15:02] <Laney> +1
[15:02] <MootBot> +1 received from Laney. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[15:02] <stgraber> +1
[15:02] <MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[15:02] <geser> +1
[15:02] <MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[15:02] <maco> +1
[15:02] <MootBot> +1 received from maco. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[15:03] <stgraber> #endvote
[15:03] <stgraber> [ENDVOTE]
[15:03] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
[15:03]  * stgraber just found MootBot's man page again :)
[15:03] <stgraber> congrats rsalveti!
[15:03] <Laney> \o/
[15:03] <rsalveti> thanks! should be back in some weeks for a dev role ;-)
[15:04] <rsalveti> we'll see :-)
[15:04] <stgraber> geser, maco, Laney: still going to be around for a few more minutes (so we can process RoAkSoAx's coredev application)?
[15:04] <maco> sure
[15:04] <Laney> yep if there's no conflict for the room
[15:04] <stgraber> according to the fridge, the room isn't used
[15:05] <stgraber> geser: also fine with you?
[15:05] <geser> yes, I've around 30 min
[15:05] <stgraber> cool
[15:05] <RoAkSoAx> YaY!
[15:05] <stgraber> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Core Developer Applications: RoAkSoAx
[15:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Core Developer Applications: RoAkSoAx
[15:05] <RoAkSoAx> Hi All!
[15:05] <stgraber> hey RoAkSoAx!
[15:05] <RoAkSoAx> My name is Andres Rodriguez, I've been involved with the community for quite a while now. I started as a translator then moved to development. I've been a MOTU for almost two years now. Throughout my work as a MOTU I've done things from simple syncs/merges all the way to package/library splits (I've done MIR reports, SRU's, packaged from scratch, bug fixing, python transitions, FTBFS, etc, etc).
[15:05] <RoAkSoAx> Within packaging, python packaging is what I enjoy the most, though I don't really have any problems with working with any type of packages. There's always something new to learn.
[15:05] <RoAkSoAx> I'm also the upstream maintainer of PowerNap (in main) and TestDrive. I  also currently maintain the Ubuntu HA Cluster Stack which include several packages currently in Main, which I got into Main last release cycle after various attempts of doing so. Currently I also work (mainly) on server related stuff that has spawned doing some work accross varios Ubuntu Server packages, both as a community member, as lately for work.
[15:06] <RoAkSoAx> and that's pretty much about it
[15:07] <RoAkSoAx> s/as/and/
[15:07] <Laney> So you say that you dislike delays in sponsorship... do you plan on making this situation better by devoting some of your time to doing sponsoring? :-)
[15:07] <RoAkSoAx> Laney: sure! it is not that I dislike delays in sponsoring, but rather I believe we need to improve it
[15:07] <RoAkSoAx> (myself included)
[15:07] <RoAkSoAx> as sometimes I've found myself having packages sitting there for days
[15:08] <RoAkSoAx> sometimes resulting on some other developer doing the merge for e.g., not noticing there was a merge report already filed in
[15:08] <RoAkSoAx> so that's work lost
[15:08] <RoAkSoAx> but yes, I do believe we need to improve
[15:09] <RoAkSoAx> it has been hugelyu improved with patch pilot but sometimes some types of packages are not touched
[15:09] <RoAkSoAx> and I can't have my co-workers sponsor for me all the time
[15:09] <RoAkSoAx> as they also have other stuff to work on
[15:09] <RoAkSoAx> and yes, It is something that I also blame myself as I havent done much sponsoring in Universe
[15:09] <RoAkSoAx> which I'd like to change
[15:11] <Laney> urgh, my internet just froze — sorry
[15:11] <Laney> the patch pilot process was designed to avoid certain patches being repeatedly ignored
[15:12] <Laney> so if you're finding that happening then I suggest you speak to dholbach and/or rickspencer3 and try to get it sorted
[15:12] <RoAkSoAx> Laney: will do ;)
[15:14] <stgraber> also, were you aware of the ubuntu server packageset?
[15:14] <RoAkSoAx> stgraber: yes I am, though I know nonone's in it yet
[15:14] <stgraber> Dave Walker and Mathias Gug are in it
[15:15] <RoAkSoAx> stgraber: AFAIK I though Dave was core dev rather than in the server package set
[15:15] <RoAkSoAx> dunno about mathiaz
[15:15] <RoAkSoAx> but anyways, the reason why I went to core dev directly is that I'd also like to do some greater good than just ubuntu server packages
[15:15] <stgraber> yep, both of them also happen to be coredev ;)
[15:16] <RoAkSoAx> i know :)
[15:16] <RoAkSoAx> though, last time I spoke about it, no-one was in it yet :(
[15:17] <stgraber> yeah, helping with sponsoring/merging in main is definitely a good reason to apply for core-dev :) I was just wondering if that packageset was known at all and if we should try to get more people to apply for upload rights to it.
[15:18] <geser> a list of the available package set for which applicants can apply would probably help
[15:18] <RoAkSoAx> i think we do, though, IMHO we don't have as many contributors as other teams do, and that's probably why the packageset is not yet well known out there
[15:18] <RoAkSoAx> geser: indeed!
[15:18] <stgraber> http://paste.ubuntu.com/619968/ apparently
[15:18] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/619968/ apparently
[15:19] <stgraber> ok, any other question for RoAkSoAx?
[15:20] <geser> no
[15:21] <stgraber> [VOTE] Ubuntu Core Developer membership for Andres Rodriguez
[15:21] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Ubuntu Core Developer membership for Andres Rodriguez.
[15:21] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[15:21] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[15:21]  * maco reads scrollback (sorry, was in bathroom)
[15:22] <stgraber> maco: ok, if you have any question before voting, just go ahead and ask
[15:23] <Laney> RoAkSoAx: Do you agree with your endorsers that there are no areas in which you could improve? ;-)
[15:23] <RoAkSoAx> Laney: I believe there's always area of improvement, as I said earlier, you never finish learning
[15:23] <RoAkSoAx> Laney: though I guess they referred to the technical skills required to be a core dev
[15:24] <maco> wow very thorough application
[15:24] <RoAkSoAx> but yeah, we wouldn't be in this if we wouldn't improve ourselves eventually
[15:24] <Laney> anyway
[15:24] <Laney> +1
[15:24] <MootBot> +1 received from Laney. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[15:24] <stgraber> +1
[15:24] <MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[15:24] <geser> +1
[15:24] <MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[15:25] <maco> +1
[15:25] <MootBot> +1 received from maco. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[15:25] <stgraber> [ENDVOTE]
[15:25] <MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
[15:25] <stgraber> and one more core-dev!
[15:25] <stgraber> congrats RoAkSoAx!
[15:25] <RoAkSoAx> YaY!!!
[15:25] <RoAkSoAx> stgraber: thank you!
[15:25] <RoAkSoAx> Laney: geser maco thank you too guys!
[15:25] <RoAkSoAx> and thank you for taking the time to process this today
[15:26] <stgraber> [TOPIC] Chair for next meeting
[15:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  Chair for next meeting
[15:26] <stgraber> volunteers?
[15:27] <stgraber> apparently not :)
[15:28] <stgraber> [TOPIC] AOB
[15:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[15:28] <stgraber> anything else?
[15:29] <maco> i suppose i could chair the next meeting, but ive never done it before
[15:29] <maco> there's a bot and it does some stuff....this much ive got
[15:29] <stgraber> I already added RoAkSoAx to core-dev and rsalveti to universe-contributors. Will quickly write the minutes now and figure out who I'm supposed to e-mail them too again :)
[15:29] <stgraber> [ACTION] maco to chair the next DMB meeting
[15:29] <MootBot> ACTION received:  maco to chair the next DMB meeting
[15:29] <stgraber> maco: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
[15:30] <stgraber> maco: that's for the bot. Other than that, it's the usual, go through the agenda, copy/paste the notes in the team reports (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports) and probably e-mail it to some list (not sure which one, will figure it out after the meeting and update our wiki page)
[15:31] <stgraber> #endmeeting
[15:31] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:31.
[15:31] <stgraber> thanks everyone for attending!
[15:31] <maco> stgraber: kk thanks
[15:31] <geser> stgraber: I usually look at the last minutes to see where to mail them :)
[15:32] <stgraber> geser: yep, sounds good. I'm probably going to put the post-meeting TODO at the end of the agenda so whoever chairs the meeting can just follow that.
[15:57]  * skaet waves
[15:57] <martins-gss> hi
[16:00] <skaet> #startmeeting
[16:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is skaet.
[16:00] <skaet> SRU/LTS bi-weekly synch meeting.
[16:00] <skaet> .
[16:00] <skaet> Reminder, please follow the convention  of using ".." on a separate line when you've finished typing.    Also, If someone wants to comment on the last point, please "o/", so we know to wait.
[16:00] <skaet> [TOPIC] Release overview - skaet
[16:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Release overview - skaet
[16:01] <skaet> Dapper Drake (6.06) Server EOL on June 1.   OEM is ok with cleanup of archive,  so will be working with teams to clean up the old packages and PPAs over next few weeks (and get back some space).
[16:01] <skaet> .
[16:01] <skaet> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
[16:01] <skaet> .
[16:01] <skaet> 10.04.3 - July 21 - no negative feedback so moved.
[16:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
[16:01] <skaet> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule
[16:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule
[16:01] <skaet> ..
[16:01] <ara> o/
[16:01] <skaet> go ara
[16:01] <ara> I have a question related to EOL
[16:01]  * vanhoof looks in
[16:01] <ara> we had set the date of EOL for Dapper
[16:02] <ara> for the end of June
[16:02] <ara> and we needed to change it last week to avoid certificates for 6.06 appearing in the site
[16:02] <skaet> EOL for Dapper was June 1
[16:02] <ara> I know
[16:02] <ara> my question is:
[16:02] <ara> are EOLs normally going to be at the beginning of the month?
[16:02] <ara> (rather the end of the month=
[16:03] <ScottK> It should relate to the release date.
[16:03] <skaet> EOLs are a fixed period of time after the release
[16:03] <skaet> date
[16:04] <skaet> I'm not sure where EOL for Dapper at end of June came from as a notion.
[16:04] <skaet> I'll look into it a bit offline
[16:04] <ara> OK, thanks
[16:05]  * skaet looks around for any other questions?
[16:05] <skaet> heh,  and since I just saw sconkin join...   will move on.
[16:06] <skaet> [TOPIC] Kernel SRU status - sconklin
[16:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel SRU status - sconklin
[16:06] <sconklin> we just published new kernels to -proposed for the major series (and to other pockets, but that's bee resolved I think)
[16:07] <sconklin> ec2 and backports for LTS will follow today or tomorrow
[16:07] <sconklin> and evrification will begin, a week later than we had hoped it would
[16:07] <sconklin> ..
[16:07] <skaet> Thanks sconklin.
[16:07] <skaet> What is the story with lucid kernel,  is that resolved and published to -proposed now?
[16:08]  * skaet may have missed something in her inbox....
[16:08] <pitti> the issue of having natty kernels in lucid/maverick-proposed should all be resolved now
[16:08] <pitti> see u-d-a@
[16:08] <sconklin> not sure what you're referrign too, but yes, there's a new Lucid that resolved past issues
[16:08] <pitti> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2011-June/000854.html
[16:08] <skaet> thanks sconklin,   thats what I was wondering.
[16:08] <pitti> ah, that's something else then, sorry
[16:09] <skaet> thanks pitti,  yup, read that this morning.  :)
[16:09] <skaet> anyone else have questions for sconklin?
[16:09] <skaet> [TOPIC] General SRU status - pitti
[16:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  General SRU status - pitti
[16:10] <pitti> I'm currently wondering about the linux-lts-backport-natty in the PPA
[16:10] <pitti> sec, door bell
[16:10] <pitti> other than that, it's pretty much business as usual
[16:10] <sconklin> pitti, first, ignore it, it will be replaced by another today
[16:10] <pitti> we have some backlog in natty queue processing, I need some more hands with that
[16:11] <pitti> people are uploading SRUs like crazy :)
[16:11] <pitti> sconklin: ack
[16:11] <sconklin> second, tose build failures are for arch's which were being tested during development and not released for stable, so they can be ignored. I'm told that they should stop happening, i.e. the natty backport is not supposed to try to build for those archs
[16:11] <sconklin> ..
[16:12] <pitti> the non-usual SRU thing that will happen soon is the switch from firefox 4 to 5 in natty, which will require some coordination with a full language pack refresh
[16:12] <pitti> but that's pretty much understood
[16:12] <pitti> ..
[16:13] <skaet> thanks pitti.  :)
[16:13] <skaet> [TOPIC] QA status - jibel
[16:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA status - jibel
[16:13] <jibel> Packages published to -proposed, -updates and -security since last week
[16:13] <jibel> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sru/latest.html
[16:13] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sru/latest.html
[16:14] <jibel> Pending Ubuntu stable release updates
[16:14] <jibel> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
[16:14] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
[16:14] <jibel> There are currently 19 SRUs with Critical or High importance in -proposed waiting for verification
[16:14] <jibel> 2 Critical SRUs in Natty:
[16:14] <jibel>  * bug 778026 in Natty requires an Infra-red Remote Control
[16:14] <jibel>  * bug 778520
[16:14] <jibel> A couple of SRUs are targeted to 10.04.3
[16:14] <jibel>  * bug 777759 : See comment #1 for verification
[16:14] <jibel>  * bug 695842 : Requires specific Hardware (two CCISS disks and doing a RAID install on it)
[16:14] <jibel>  * 2 Wubi bugs: bug 610898, bug 742967 : Not sure of the status based on the comment in the report and I am not able to reproduce the original issue.
[16:15] <jibel>  * bug 687501 : Not sure of the status and if it can be promoted to lucid-updates
[16:15] <jibel>  * bug 783836 : requires a re-producable test case
[16:15] <jibel>  * bug 561750
[16:16] <jibel> ..
[16:16] <skaet> Thanks jibel,  :)
[16:16] <skaet> Will work with you offline to get a summary of the 10.04.3 targetted bugs, and get it circulated.
[16:16] <jibel> thanks
[16:18] <skaet> On that note of 10.04.3 - Does freeze a month before make sense,  or can we make it 3 weeks?  (am thinking we want to interlock with the new SRU cycle a bit better this time?)
[16:18] <skaet> sconklin, pitti,  ^^
[16:18] <pitti> my gut feeling is that 3 weeks are enough; didn't we do 3 weeks for .2 as well?
[16:18] <sconklin> this might be a good time to note that the kernel SRU calendar we have in google calendars all needs to be shifted a week later
[16:19] <skaet> pitti,  we did a month, but I think that 3 weeks is worth trying too.
[16:19] <skaet> sconklin,  ack.
[16:19] <sconklin> I don't know. The kernel generally freezes a week before everything else
[16:19] <bjf> skaet, we should talk to pgraner to see how he's going to be setup for supporting sru kernels
[16:20] <skaet> sconklin,  ok,  I'll be working on the interlock this week, and we can see how it all lines up.
[16:20] <sconklin> but generally the less freeze time the better
[16:20] <bjf> skaet, i'd like to see us decouple as soon as possible for him
[16:20] <sconklin> +1
[16:20] <skaet> bjf,  yes,  will do.
[16:20] <skaet> [TOPIC] HW certification - brendand
[16:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  HW certification - brendand
[16:21] <bjf> skaet, however, i recognize he has quite a load on his plate this dev cycle and not sure he'll have the resources
[16:21] <brendand> Not much from our side. We are preparing to start testing Lucid, Maverick and Natty kernels once the verification phase is done.
[16:21] <bjf> ..
[16:21] <brendand> sconklin, any reasons why the start of the testing phase could be later than next Monday?
[16:21] <brendand> ..
[16:22] <skaet> thanks brendand.  :)
[16:22] <skaet> sconklin?
[16:22] <sconklin> brendand: we are not expecting any delays. But our tracking bug dashboard is totally unusable this morning due to the problems this morning, and I don't know how many bugs require verification
[16:23] <sconklin> But I don't expect delays
[16:23] <sconklin> ..
[16:23] <brendand> thanks
[16:23] <skaet> brendand,  are there reports from the last cycle we can look at now?
[16:24] <brendand> skaet - http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/current
[16:25] <brendand> skaet - but my understanding was these kernels were not getting published?
[16:25] <skaet> Thanks brendand.
[16:25]  * skaet will look at them, and do some cross correlation later.
[16:26] <skaet> any other questions for brendand?
[16:26] <skaet> [TOPIC] Support priorities - martins-gss
[16:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  Support priorities - martins-gss
[16:26] <martins-gss> great
[16:26] <martins-gss> http://people.canonical.com/~pmatulis/martin/Support-status-june-6.html
[16:26] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pmatulis/martin/Support-status-june-6.html
[16:26] <martins-gss> this is the current support escalations that we have
[16:27] <martins-gss> the top three are the highest in priority at the moment
[16:27] <martins-gss> http://launchpad.net/bugs/695842
[16:27] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpad.net/bugs/695842
[16:27] <martins-gss> ubottu
[16:28] <martins-gss> ubottu yes correct, next three, sorry
[16:28] <martins-gss> rails (Ubuntu)
[16:29] <martins-gss> skate this is a long list, what do you want covered for this meeting?
[16:29] <skaet> just the top 3 please,  so they're on the log
[16:29] <martins-gss> ok
[16:30] <martins-gss> http://launchpad.net/bugs/670571
[16:30] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpad.net/bugs/670571
[16:30] <martins-gss> open, we have difficulty reproducing, this status shows as fixed, but is not
[16:31] <martins-gss> http://launchpad.net/bugs/688703
[16:31] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpad.net/bugs/688703
[16:31] <martins-gss> open, high priority, need to work with developers and see if we can get hw vendor to provide equipment
[16:32] <martins-gss> those are the three that I have on high status
[16:33] <skaet> thanks martins-gss.    I'll work with you offline to figure out if we can get the statuses to match what you expect them to be.
[16:33] <martins-gss> ok great thanks
[16:33] <skaet> any one have questions for martins-gss ?
[16:33] <ScottK> Might be the other way around.
[16:33] <skaet> :)
[16:34] <martins-gss> I am good for now
[16:34] <skaet> [TOPIC] OEM priorities - vanhoof
[16:34] <MootBot> New Topic:  OEM priorities - vanhoof
[16:34] <vanhoof> skaet: two bugs: bug 790754 & bug 741825
[16:35] <vanhoof> skaet: both are posted, and awaiting review/ack
[16:35] <vanhoof> hopefully will make next natty SRU cycle
[16:35] <vanhoof> ..
[16:35] <skaet> thanks vanhoof.  :)
[16:35] <skaet> where are they posted
[16:35] <vanhoof> for kernel team review
[16:36] <skaet> coolio,  will leave it to sconklin and bjf then.  :)
[16:36] <vanhoof> cool
[16:36] <vanhoof> nothing else from me presently
[16:36] <skaet> any questions for vanhoof?
[16:36] <skaet> [TOPIC] New business, last chance for general questions? - all
[16:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  New business, last chance for general questions? - all
[16:36] <skaet> going once...
[16:37] <skaet> twice...
[16:37] <skaet> #endmeeting
[16:37] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:37.
[16:37] <skaet> thanks all.
[16:39] <jibel> Thanks for chairing skaet !
[16:40] <pitti> thanks skaet
[18:15] <jdstrand> hi!
[18:16] <kees> \o
[18:16]  * sbeattie waves
[18:16] <micahg> o/
[18:16] <jdstrand> #startmeeting
[18:16] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:16. The chair is jdstrand.
[18:16] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:16] <jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[18:16] <jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[18:16] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[18:16] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
[18:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review of any previous action items
[18:16] <jdstrand> we actually don't have any. that is not an indication of a lack of work done :P
[18:17] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[18:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly stand-up report
[18:17] <jdstrand> I'll go first
[18:17] <mdeslaur> hello
[18:17] <jdstrand> I was on triager last week, and am on community this week
[18:17] <jdstrand> I've got a qemu-kvm update I am working on
[18:18] <jdstrand> (which has involved writing test-qemu.py for qrt)
[18:18] <jdstrand> I hope to have that published by tomorrow
[18:19] <jdstrand> the server team has been waiting on me for the final libvirt merge (they did it, but there were various reviews/issues that I am looking at (not related to the work already done-- related to some upstream changes/bugs)
[18:19] <jdstrand> )
[18:20] <jdstrand> jjohansen and I plan to get together on dbus/apparmor (finally) and I hope to work on that a bit this week
[18:20] <jdstrand> finally, I have a pile of email I need to get through
[18:20] <jjohansen> yeah we are crazy
[18:20] <jdstrand> that's it from me
[18:20] <jdstrand> kees, you're up
[18:20] <kees> this week I'm in the happy place!
[18:21] <mdeslaur> \o/ :)
[18:21] <kees> I've got a double-patch pilot on thursday
[18:21] <jdstrand> eek
[18:21] <kees> (I skipped a patch pilot during uds, so I'm going to pull 8 hours thursday)
[18:21] <jdstrand> well, that day is gone :P
[18:21] <kees> I'm on vacation for a week starting friday
[18:21] <kees> yeah
[18:21] <sbeattie> (is that the not-so-happy place?)
[18:21] <kees> heheh
[18:21] <jdstrand> hehe
[18:22] <kees> I'm getting familiar with the new bug-based workflow for kernel SRU validation
[18:22] <kees> and will be continuing to work on USN correctly/building tools and LP/uct sync tools
[18:22] <kees> that's it from me
[18:23] <jdstrand> kees: if you have time, would you mind looking at the accountsservice and apg mirs (#785680, #785682)
[18:23] <jdstrand> kees: I think it is blocking the new gnome-control-center
[18:23] <jdstrand> kees: if not, we can have someone else do it
[18:23] <kees> okay
[18:23] <jdstrand> (seb128 requested it today)
[18:24] <jdstrand> I think apg will be pretty quick, fwiw
[18:24] <jdstrand> I don't know what accountservice is
[18:24] <jdstrand> kees: anyhoo, if you can't get to it, feel free to handoff to someone else
[18:24]  * kees nods
[18:25] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
[18:25] <mdeslaur> So, I just released subversion, and have a surprise flashplugin-nonfree update to do today
[18:25] <jdstrand> kees: oh, and thank you for looking at those :)
[18:25] <mdeslaur> after that, I'll be going down the list, and maybe doing some work items
[18:25] <mdeslaur> that's it from me!
[18:26] <mdeslaur> oh, I may look at nagios3
[18:27] <jdstrand> sbeattie: you're next
[18:27] <sbeattie> cool.
[18:27] <sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week.
[18:27] <sbeattie> I have an embargoed update on my plate.
[18:28] <sbeattie> I'm also poking a bit at the dovecot qrt script after last weeks update; oneiric has dovecot 2.0.x which introduces some changes.
[18:29] <sbeattie> and am investigating a related issue with dovecot.
[18:29] <sbeattie> beyond that, I have some apparmor things I need to work on.
[18:29] <sbeattie> I think that's it for me.
[18:30] <jdstrand> micahg: you're up
[18:30] <micahg> still trying to figure out while I can't get the thunderbird regression to reliably fail, by EOD should know more
[18:31] <micahg> there's a chrome update for the new flash that we don't need
[18:31] <micahg> there should be a new chromium stable update this week or next based on the 6 week timeline
[18:32] <micahg> chrisccoulson proposed a plan for the natty update to Firefox 5, I will need to discuss that with him, that will be taking my time over the weekend and next week
[18:33] <micahg> Firefox 3.6.19 builds should be ready towards the end of the week, I'll get those uploaded when they're release to the beta channel
[18:33] <micahg> Thunderbird 3.1.11 same as Firefox 3.6.19
[18:34] <jdstrand> micahg: the tbird regression is the global menu thing?
[18:34] <micahg> jdstrand: yeah, that I can verify, I just have other problems with thunderbird in the VM which my be related to my "server" vm
[18:35] <micahg> but I don't remember having these issues when originally testing 3.1.10
[18:35] <chrisccoulson> one person has already reported the menu bug upstream to mozilla now btw
[18:36] <jdstrand> micahg: what do you think about just pushing that fix to the archive?
[18:36] <jdstrand> (istr that the fix was very small and easy to verify)
[18:37] <chrisccoulson> it's 1 line ;)
[18:37] <micahg> jdstrand: and just blame my vm setup for the test issues?
[18:38] <jdstrand> micahg: have you compared the test output from the previous builds to the current?
[18:38] <micahg> jdstrand: not yet, was going to do that today and if they matched, just push it out
[18:39] <jdstrand> sounds like a plan
[18:39] <jdstrand> micahg: anything else?
[18:39] <micahg> well, I have a short week this week, off wed/thu
[18:39] <jdstrand> ok
[18:39] <jdstrand> micahg: thanks
[18:39] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[18:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  Miscellaneous and Questions
[18:39] <micahg> o/
[18:39] <micahg> not done...
[18:40] <jdstrand> ah
[18:40] <jdstrand> micahg: please go ahead
[18:41] <micahg> also, would like to get webkit 1.2.7 out before I get bogged down in the Firefox 5 migration, but have been having trouble getting through the CVEs, I think only a limited number were fixed in 1.2.6 and 1.2.7, so I'm going to look at the Debian CVE tracker today and see what they marked as fixed by these updates, and if it looks sane, upload based on that and try to push that out thursday night
[18:41] <micahg> ok, that's it :)
[18:42]  * jdstrand nods
[18:42] <jdstrand> I will not be taking off all of next week after all. but likely take of just monday
[18:42] <jdstrand> does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[18:44] <jdstrand> #endmeeting
[18:44] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:44.
[18:44] <jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg: thanks!
[18:44] <sbeattie> jdstrand: thank you!
[18:44] <mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
[18:44] <micahg> thanks jdstrand
[18:45] <kees> thanks jdstrand!
[18:45] <jdstrand> sure thing!
[19:00] <total08> cxz
[19:01] <total08> Ïðèâåò


[14:51] <alex_mayorga> chrisccoulson: ping
[14:52] <alex_mayorga> Any chance to make https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ubuntu/ppa available on Utopic?
[15:40] <chrisccoulson> alex_mayorga, it's not really a priority at the moment - we can't even build on trusty right now
[15:41] <chrisccoulson> (bug 1348333)
[15:47] <alex_mayorga> chrisccoulson: =(
[15:51] <chrisccoulson> alex_mayorga, and utopic is affected by an additional bug too (bug 1347257), although that one has a fix
[15:58] <alex_mayorga> chrisccoulson: How come none of those show at https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily ?
[15:58] <chrisccoulson> alex_mayorga, because I don't use that for anything
[16:14] <alex_mayorga> chrisccoulson: =(
[16:26] <alex_mayorga> chrisccoulson: So https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/1348333 is Ubuntu's fault or Mozilla's?
[16:26] <chrisccoulson> alex_mayorga, I don't know at the moment


[04:38] <IrcsomeBot1> <Deno Jacob> how to emulate android apps on kde
[05:01] <Dat> is there away to prox krdc?
[05:01] <Dat> proxy*
[05:05] <DarinMiller> Dat: By chance did you try setting the system proxy to see if that works System Setting | Settings (Network section) | Proxy
[05:23] <Dat> system wide proxy doesn't work
[05:23] <Dat> :(
[05:25] <Dat> or maybe the proxy setting staying in effect
[05:30] <Dat> maybe i'll have to leave it open for the world
[05:30] <Dat> :(
[12:06] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[14:23] <R13ose> I have been getting this problem for awhile: http://pastebin.com/9Up28Z60
[14:41] <mgolden> R13ose: any other information? Can you run top in a terminal window while it is happening?
[14:42] <R13ose> mgolden: top?
[14:44] <R13ose> mgolden: this is limited to the application like the browser etc so I can run other programs at the top.
[14:44] <R13ose> time*
[14:53] <mgolden> R130se: Open konsole
[14:53] <mgolden> then type the word "top" at the prompt
[14:54] <mgolden> That might tell you want program is running
[14:54] <mgolden> It's possible that something is pegging the CPU and that's what's causing the slowness you're seeing
[14:57] <Biscuit-> Ola
[14:57] <Biscuit-> I need help in customizing my taskbar
[14:58] <Biscuit-> I just moved to kubuntu because of dolphin
[14:59] <R13ose> mgolden: firefox  and xorg are the two biggest in terms of %mem but only firefox is above 2% of the %cpu.
[15:00] <BluesKaj> Biscuit-, you have optional taskbars available , the default and the "icons only" taslbar
[15:00] <BluesKaj> taskbar
[15:01] <Biscuit-> Oh thanks blueskaj
[15:01] <Biscuit-> Is there any tool for customization like how gnome has tweak tool
[15:04] <BluesKaj> right click on the desktop or click the 3 stacled dashes on the far right of the panel and choose agg widgets, Biscuit-
[15:04] <BluesKaj> add widgets :-)
[15:05] <Biscuit-> Thank you blueskaj
[15:05] <R13ose> back
[15:05] <Biscuit-> But I was asking about hotcorner configuration
[15:06] <yocs0000> hi everybody! Can you manage ftp connection through dolphin 5 Version 16.04.3
[15:06] <yocs0000> ?
[15:07] <BluesKaj> Biscuit-, I recommend you become familiar with system settings first , it's in the kmenu
[15:07] <Biscuit-> Alright, it will take some time.
[15:07] <Biscuit-> I got bored and later, I was like Fuck it and booted back to gnome.
[15:07] <Biscuit-> I'll boot it to kubuntu again
[15:08] <BluesKaj> Biscuit-, kmenuu>computer>system settings
[15:08] <Biscuit-> Thank you so much
[15:09] <Biscuit-> You've been very helpful
[15:09] <yocs0000> solved! thanks ....
[15:09] <BluesKaj> well, kde/plasma is quite different than gnome or unity
[15:11] <Biscuit-> I seem to like the splitting window a lot
[15:11] <Biscuit-> It's worth it, even if it's not as user friendly as gnome
[15:13] <BluesKaj> it is , but you have to undestand how flexible kde is, more so then gnome
[15:13] <BluesKaj> than
[15:13] <yocs0000> not really .... it does not accept any advanced command.
[15:14] <lordievader> yocs0000: Like what command?
[15:14] <BluesKaj> yocs0000, what advanced command
[15:18] <yocs0000> lordievader: for example recursively deleting
[15:18] <yocs0000> I think many of the services which were available for dolphin4 are not available anymore on dolphin5, is that correct?
[15:18] <BluesKaj> yocs0000, give us an example
[15:19] <yocs0000> I just did ....
[15:19] <BluesKaj> some yocs0000 yes
[15:19] <lordievader> yocs0000: Well, you have a terminal at your fingertips (inside Dolphin).
[15:20] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: I have not found any that do actually work .... but dolphin does not check the version, so it is try and fail ....
[15:20] <yocs0000> lordievader: what do you mean?
[15:21] <BluesKaj> yocs0000, try what and fail?
[15:22] <lordievader> yocs0000: In dolphin hit F4 ;)
[15:22] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: try to install them and fail
[15:22] <BluesKaj> install what?
[15:23] <yocs0000> [15:18] <yocs0000> I think many of the services which were available for dolphin4 are not available anymore on dolphin5, is that correct?
[15:23] <yocs0000> [15:19] <BluesKaj> some yocs0000 yes
[15:23] <BluesKaj> yeah what are you tryiung to install specifically ?
[15:25] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: the point I am making is that there is no check on version, so you have to keep trying and failing .... for example if yu want to install a "open as root" service or a "convert file to mp3" service
[15:25] <Biscuit-> There are so many people on this group too
[15:27] <BluesKaj> you open with root permissions on kubuntu, that's the safest method , this isn't debian
[15:28] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: you lost me ....
[15:29] <BluesKaj> yocs0000, you lost me too due to your inability to be specific about what your are really tryiung to do ....
[15:30] <lordievader> BluesKaj: His point is quite clear to me, yocs0000 says that Dolphin 4 services are incompatible with Dolphin 5, and there is no check to see if a downloaded service is for Dolphin 4 or 5.
[15:30] <lordievader> yocs0000: I'd suggest to file a bug for this on bugs.kde.org ;)
[15:31] <BluesKaj> anyway I have other things to do ..ok lordievader you deal with it
[15:31] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: I am trying to install a service in dolphin 5 to "open as root"
[15:32] <BluesKaj> since 15.04 it's plasma 5 , that all there is to it
[15:33] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: does not seem terribly difficult to understand: dolphin > Settings > configure dolphin > Services > Download new services
[15:33] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: search for "root"
[15:33] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: choose the first service
[15:33] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: install
[15:33] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: fail
[15:33] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: choose the second service .... and so on
[15:33] <lordievader> yocs0000: File a bug ;)
[15:34] <yocs0000> lordievader: OK, that is a sensible answer, thank you, I will do.
[15:35] <BluesKaj> yocs0000, simple root actions menu
[15:35] <BluesKaj> ?
[15:39] <BluesKaj> yocs0000, seearching for root gives a list of about 8 optional services here
[15:40] <BluesKaj> yocs0000, which plasma version are you running ? plasmashell -v
[15:42] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: yes ....
[15:43] <BluesKaj> ok yocs0000 the second service listed under root fails here as well, I'm on plasma 5.8.3
[15:44] <BluesKaj> plasmashell -v in the terminal gives your version
[15:45] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: mine is 5.7.5 I believe .... but imagine being someone who does not know about plasma version, for 5 minutes.
[15:46] <lordievader> He just sees a broken service system ;)
[15:48] <BluesKaj> yocs0000, .well, sorry about the misunderstanding , i have never tried to add a service to dolphion so I had no idea what you were talking about at first
[15:48] <BluesKaj> mines brokenas well :/
[15:49] <BluesKaj> the defaults work , the optionals don't
[15:49] <yocs0000> lordievader: how many time did it happen let's say in the 4 years?
[15:50] <lordievader> yocs0000: Did what happen?
[15:52] <yocs0000> OK, rephrasing .... I have been on KDE since 1997 .... so 19 years, coming on 20. How many times did it happen that we broke all the services by implementing changes without the proper change management procedure in place?
[15:53] <lordievader> No idea, never used Dolphin services.
[15:54] <yocs0000> lordievader: OK, even wider and simpler .... in general .... How many times did it happen that we broke services by implementing changes without the proper change management procedure in place?
[15:55] <lordievader> Euhh, from what I remember the upgrade 4 -> 5 went a lot smoother than 3 -> 4. I usually don't notice major breakage with version upgrades (as 5.x -> 5.y). Things, most of the time, improve.
[15:56] <BluesKaj> I found 4 to 5 less troublesome than 3 to 4
[15:58] <BluesKaj> but I do miss 4 due the loss of some features like separete VD backgrounds
[15:58] <yocs0000> right .... OK .... then we must be using different systems .... I have nly experienced 4 major changes, so probably I do not know exactly what we are talking about .... that is the reason newbies find the system so easy to use.
[15:58] <BluesKaj> activities still isn't quite as stable as it could be in that regard
[16:02] <key> selamunaleykum
[16:10] <R13ose> any other thoughts on my question?
[16:16] <BluesKaj> R13ose, all i can suggest is update and upgrade your..seems someting is missing  packages
[16:17] <BluesKaj> oops your packages
[16:17] <R13ose> BluesKaj: which packages are missing?
[16:18] <BluesKaj> dunno,  sudo apt update && sudo apt upgarde
[16:18] <BluesKaj> err upgrade
[16:21] <R13ose> done
[17:26] <onca> I never set a password for root and accidentally unchecked administrator from my user account.
[17:26] <onca> now I can't update my system. :/
[17:27] <Dragnslcr> You might able to fix it with a Live CD/USB
[17:28] <Dragnslcr> Boot a live OS, mount the hard disk, and manually edit the system files
[17:28] <onca> oh that's an idea.
[17:28] <genii> Boot to a livecd, mount the hard drive, edit the old /etc/group file to append adm:x:4:syslog   to adm:x:4:syslog,yourusername
[17:29] <genii> Save, reboot to hd
[17:29] <Dragnslcr> Is it adm or sudo?
[17:29] <Dragnslcr> Well, I know it's both
[17:29] <Dragnslcr> But I think it's the group "sudo" that lets you run commands with sudo
[17:30] <genii> Append sudo line in there while you're at it :)
[17:30] <Dragnslcr> Hehe
[17:30] <BluesKaj> onca, https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/user-management.html
[18:19] <yocs0000> sorry, back! How do you run applications as root using a graphical interface?
[18:23] <BluesKaj> in kde it's kdesudo name of package in the run command or the terminal, which then launches the app in gui form, afaik
[18:29] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: no other alternative? for example, from the menu of dolphin, or from KDE main menu?
[18:29] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: it is for a newbie who needs to install packages on her laptop
[18:30] <BluesKaj> yocs0000 , have you been running debian all these years?
[18:31] <BluesKaj> sudo apt install nameofpackage ...sudo gives root permissions to the user , that's all that's required on kubuntu
[18:33] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: no .... mandrake, mandriva,opensuse, kubuntu among many.... highly customised I have to say. Everything from CLI, so I am not very familiar with GUI .... not at all actually!!!!
[18:36] <BluesKaj> the post above assumes you are using the terminal
[18:37] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: :D
[18:39] <BluesKaj> !root | yocs0000
[18:43] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: I am asking whether there are graphical tools for a newbie ....
[18:44] <BluesKaj> graphical tools to do what ?
[18:44] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: for example, if you use R when you install additional packages that are not in the repository you need to install the at system level
[18:44] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: or if you wnt to install eclipse or android studio
[18:48] <BluesKaj> eclipse is in the repos/package manager and android studio is not altho perhaps there may be a devel version in git
[18:50] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: yes, they are prehistorc versions .... there are people coming to visit the repository as part of the the Jurassic trial ....
[18:51] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: s/trial/trail
[18:54] <lordievader> yocs0000: What do you need root for?
[18:54] <lordievader> Most GUI applications don't need root.
[18:54] <BluesKaj> yeah, i've been scratching my head about this all day :-)
[18:55] <BluesKaj> ok , bbiab, gotta go check the snailmail
[19:10] <yocs0000> lordievader: BluesKaj: eclipse, android studio, R task views (are three examples enough?)
[19:13] <lordievader> Why does eclipse and android studio need it?
[19:14] <lordievader> At least Android studio runs fine without root.
[19:17] <lordievader> I'd recommend only running things as root if they really need it.
[19:17] <yocs0000> lordievader: yes, if you want to install it in the user directory and eat away nerly 6 GB in the /home partition
[19:18] <yocs0000> lordievader: (that is with 1 AVD)
[19:18] <yocs0000> lordievader: the let's say another 1 GB for eclipse ...
[19:19] <lordievader> Just because they live in a system dir doesn't mean they need root rights...
[19:19] <lordievader> Why does Android studio need root in your scenario?
[19:19] <yocs0000> lordievader: to install yes
[19:19] <yocs0000> lordievader: of course, not to run
[19:20] <lordievader> Oh, is it just the install? Just grab a konsole ;)
[19:21] <yocs0000> lordievader: please, please, pleas
[19:21] <yocs0000> lordievader: follow the discussion ....
[19:23] <yocs0000> actually, I think it is hopeless .... which is the reason why so many newbies are put off .... because this is the way the community reacts every time someone rises a good point.
[19:24] <lordievader> yocs0000: Are you trying to say you are looking for a gui package manager?
[19:25] <lordievader> !muon
[19:25] <lordievader> Not sure if that is still around...
[19:26] <BluesKaj> yocs0000, you don't seem to understand the difference in (K)Ubuntu betrween root and root permissions for thje user...there's no need to install an app to /home dir , /usr/bin is the normal dir where application are iunstalled to by default
[19:27] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: yes, you are right .... I have administered systems only for 20 years. So, guide me through how would you install Android  Studio 2.2.2 woth all useful AVD and SDKs.
[19:27] <BluesKaj> iunstalled=installed
[19:27] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: s/woth/with
[19:28] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: but from the point of view of a newbie (Not my point of view, which took me a considerable amount of time nonetheless.)
[19:29] <BluesKaj> yocs0000, android studio is not a default application in Kubuntu,  you may have to compile it from source
[19:29] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: and then, when you have finished with that, tell me how would you install Eclipse Neon with Modelling Plugins and Business Modellers, if you were a newbie.
[19:30] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: no, you well fracking do not.
[19:30] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: when the repository has versions that are 4 years old of course.
[19:31] <BluesKaj> so what , I'm a home user and an experiemnced one , that admin stuff means nothing toe , so trying to pull rank here doesn't cut it for apps that don't apply
[19:31] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: what do you mean? if a newbie needs it, needs it.
[19:32] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: what I have been trying to say for 2 hours, is that we are making life extremely difficult for non experienced users. And we are.
[19:32] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: try doing any of things I told you.
[19:33] <BluesKaj> yocs0000,  I don't need to ...it has nothing to do wih normal installation procedures in kubuntu,
[19:34] <BluesKaj> normal meaning standard best prctices
[19:34] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: what do you mean?! They are standard applications for the linux platform. They are ubiquitous! what do you use for developing under android? And for business modelling?
[19:36] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: if the current standard does not cover applications that are used by several thousands of users in the community, then it is our standards that are wrong, not the community!
[19:36] <BluesKaj> this is kubuntu not linux in general
[19:36] <lordievader> !info androidstudio
[19:37] <BluesKaj> this is where i get off , not wasting my time any longer
[19:37] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: so, you are saying, that because this is Kubuntu, the newbies should be miserable every time they have to install an application that is not in the repository?
[19:37] <lordievader> Without it being in the Ubuntu repo it will be difficult for a newby user to install, I do agree.
[19:38] <yocs0000> BluesKaj: I really do not understand your point
[19:41] <yocs0000> lordievader: thanks God in Heaven! so, we can agree and close the discussion .... but really, we need to sort ourselves out or we will be completely marginalised. Have a  good evening.
[22:12] <Vienna_male> hello