[01:10] <MarkDude> Fedora has chosen the name of Beefy Miracle as release name for F17 http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/announce/2011-October/003002.html
[01:10] <MarkDude> We need a joint shirt with Pangolin and Hot Dog hanging out
[01:18] <Faqtotum> facepalm
[01:25]  * MarkDude will start taking orders on shirts now
[03:29] <Darkwing> HAH!
[03:29] <Darkwing> I think I may have found a new IRC nick...
[03:30] <Darkwing> Well, nevermind.
[03:30] <pleia2> :P
[03:30] <Darkwing> It's taken.
[03:31] <pleia2> thank goodness
[03:31] <Darkwing> LOL!
[03:31] <Darkwing> Naww, I'll stick to Darkwing.
[03:31] <pleia2> \o/
[03:31] <pleia2> so I am now an expert on cloud (just kidding, but I can probably talk about it without sounding like an idiot now
[03:31] <pleia2> )
[03:32] <pleia2> can't say the same for talking about Unity, but whatever :)
[03:33] <pleia2> was at dinner tonight with some folks at this networking conference my fiance is attending (it's why we're in philly) and one of them was like "ubuntu? I have a question for you... [why did they make unity, ruining my life rant here]'
[03:33] <Faqtotum> Darkwing: bkerensa used to use the nick _-_-_
[03:33] <Darkwing> LOL
[03:34] <pleia2> "because gnome3 was yucky" "ok, why did gnome3 decide to change everything?" "oh, um..."
[03:34] <Faqtotum> but he's come a long way since then; oregon is pretty far
[03:34] <pleia2> because it's ..better?
[03:42]  * MarkDude was advising for slogans for next release, I suggested Gnome3 it is not nearly as sh*tty as you think :D
[03:43] <MarkDude> Best most positive I could be
[03:43] <MarkDude> Went to gnome site- it has just as clean- not much to it feel :P
[03:45] <MarkDude> Darkwing, (the nick formally known as Duck) does KDE have slogan like we use both hands - just to be able to flip the bird to both of the window managers?
[03:51] <MarkDude> grantbow,  I am sure folks in Nairobi will care  >> http://beefymiracle.org/
[03:53] <MarkDude> One more link and I will shut up ( I am still doing happy dance) http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=anaconda-images.git;a=blob_plain;f=rnotes/f11rh7-3is_intermission.png;h=8307233e663063a80c622aa20e5229069433dc41;hb=1896a3f050553eeb0ff971658e1a88b8893a5920
[03:53] <MarkDude> That is where it all started. The original hotdog
[06:37] <bkerensa> Faqtotum: ?
[06:37] <bkerensa> Darkwing ?
[06:58] <philipballew> would anyone be able to recomend a good book to learn linux server admin type stuff?
[07:00] <nhaines> philipballew: what kind fo server?
[07:00] <philipballew> nhaines, well im currently running a debian server.
[07:01] <philipballew> can I say that is the ubuntu channel? haha
[07:01] <nhaines> philipballew: Debian and Ubuntu are platforms, not servers.
[07:01] <philipballew> ah, I thought you were asking what i am running on my server.
[07:01] <nhaines> No, I'm asking what kind of server would you like to run.
[07:01] <philipballew> web server
[07:02] <philipballew> probably
[07:02] <philipballew> seems the best profitable
[07:02] <nhaines> Then you pick a web server (apache, lighthttpd, etc) and learn that.
[07:02] <philipballew> alright. Ill look into it. maybe a lamp stack or something
[07:03] <nhaines> The OS doesn't have a lot to do with the particulars, except in a few details (config location, etc.)
[07:04] <philipballew> alright. is there really big differences between say a R.H. type set up compared to a Debian type?
[07:05] <nhaines> As I said, no.
[07:05] <Darkwing> bkerensa: What's up?
[07:05] <philipballew> ok, that makes sense now that you said that.  Your a really helpful person nhaines
[07:06] <nhaines> philipballew: just focus on each task.  That's what you'll really need and it's what you'll find the books on.  :)
[07:06] <nhaines> Definitely let me know what you find!
[07:07] <philipballew> alright. I have amazon prime so im gonna be buying 3 tech books tonight
[07:07] <philipballew> python book, networking book, and a lamp book
[07:07] <nhaines> Amazon Prime is fun.  I'm glad I don't have it.  :)
[07:07] <philipballew> I get a free year because im a college student
[07:07] <philipballew> after that its only 40 a year for me
[07:08] <nhaines> Half off!
[07:08] <nhaines> I recommend http://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Python-Novice-Professional-Second/dp/1590599829/
[07:08] <nhaines> For Python.  Magnus Lie Hetland is a very clear writer.
[07:10] <philipballew> I.ll buy it!
[07:11] <nhaines> I have the first edition, and the second edition (linked) for Kindle.  Haven't gone through the second edition but it should be just as good.
[07:13] <nhaines> philipballew: you'll get your books on Friday but you can install GvRng from the Ubuntu Software Center in the meantime to get the feel of Python, plus it's fun.
[19:34] <MarkDude> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/live/ Ubuntu UK is LIVE now
[19:42]  * MarkDude hears British folks
[20:40] <nhaines> Much like the non-existent release candidate, Canonical also isn't telling me what's happening with the order I placed last week.
[20:40] <pleia2> maybe they want you to be surprised when it shows up
[20:41] <nhaines> pleia2: :)
[20:41] <philipballew> nhaines, i think im gonna buy that python book you recomended
[20:42] <rww> at least we're not stuck at eight days before release now :3
[20:42] <nhaines> pleia2: I don't have a release party to go to, so I don't need the clothing for that, but I did do a split order with some coworkers and they were asking.
[20:42] <pleia2> nhaines: *nod*
[20:43] <pleia2> rww: yeah, I poked them
[20:43] <nhaines> philipballew: I wish I had a way to lend you my copy so you could check it out.  But you can always look at this by the same author, for a taste.  It convinced me to go out and buy his book: http://hetland.org/writing/instant-python.html
[20:43] <nhaines> pleia2: luckily, we have customer's complaining about RMA and online store ship times constantly anyway, so they know how things work.
[20:44] <nhaines> Someone placed an order at like 8pm Friday night for overnight delivery and was angry when she didn't get the package until the next Tuesday.
[20:47] <bkerensa> philipballew: Who is the publisher of the book?
[20:47] <nhaines> bkerensa: Apress
[20:47] <bkerensa> nhaines: Likely Apress would ship a free copy if it's for a LoCo
[20:48] <nhaines> bkerensa: I think it's just for him though.  But that does give me an idea!
[20:48]  * philipballew is just looking for a light read
[20:48]  * nhaines 's idea is to shake down publishers for Ubucon prizes.
[20:49] <bkerensa> nhaines: You should come up to Portland for OSCON and help me setup a Ubuntu After Party
[20:49] <bkerensa> :D
[20:49]  * bkerensa is trying to get a boat
[20:49] <nhaines> lol
[20:50] <pleia2> boo, I forgot my presentation remote
[20:50] <bkerensa> nhaines: ;) There is a boat on the waterfront downtown for events so I'm trying to find out how much to rent it for a few hours and sort out getting someone to pay for that, drinks and catering
[20:50] <bkerensa> :D
[20:50] <nhaines> pleia2: just use a Wii controller and Bluetooth!  :D
[20:50] <pleia2> nhaines: I'm in a hotel in philadelphia, I don't haz!
[20:50] <nhaines> pleia2: D:
[20:51] <nhaines> pleia2: if it were November you could pick up the Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword collector's bundle and use the limited edition golden remote!
[20:51] <pleia2> hehe
[20:51] <bkerensa> lol
[20:51] <nhaines> That makes it a business writeoff right?
[20:52] <pleia2> if I were paid or did this for a job, sure :)
[20:52] <pleia2> alas!
[20:52] <nhaines> details!
[20:55] <bkerensa> Fedex is here
[20:55] <bkerensa> :D
[20:55] <bkerensa> YAY
[20:57] <gua> woo
[20:57] <bkerensa> Yay Kingston sent me a 32GB DataTraveler Locker+
[20:57] <bkerensa> :D
[20:58]  * nhaines needs more free stuff.
[20:58]  * pleia2 gives nhaines free hugs
[20:58] <nhaines> \o/
[20:59] <pleia2> ok, off to start wandering toward the suburbs for my first 11.10 talk
[20:59] <nhaines> Good luck!  You'll do great!  :)
[20:59] <nhaines> Also publish your slides for others to steal!  ;)
[20:59] <gua> what's the name of that python book talked about above?
[20:59] <pleia2> nhaines: always!
[20:59]  * pleia2 heads out
[21:00] <philipballew> http://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Python-Professional-Magnus-Hetland/dp/1590599829/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1318365856&sr=1-1
[21:00] <nhaines> gua: Beginning Python by Magnus Lie Hetland.  ISBN:<PHONE_NUMBER>822 http://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Python-Novice-Professional-Second/dp/1590599829/
[21:00] <gua> ahh thanks
[21:00] <gua> nhaines: is it for people new to programming or new to python?
[21:00] <nhaines> gua: both!  :D
[21:01] <gua> aha
[21:01] <bkerensa> nhaines: If you are ever in Portland I have lots of free stuff I often dont want
[21:01] <bkerensa> nhaines: I usually give it to friends
[21:01] <bkerensa> :P
[21:01]  * bkerensa gave a android tablet away a few weeks back
[21:01] <nhaines> bkerensa: I'm pretty much never in Portland.  :P
[21:02] <nhaines> Aww, I could've used an Android tablet though.
[21:02] <nhaines> Let the sponsors note!  :P
[21:02] <nhaines> bkerensa: if you get a free Amazon Kindle Fire let me know.  :P
[21:02] <bkerensa> nhaines: It wont happen... Amazon and Apple have horrible PR along with Google and MS
[21:02] <bkerensa> :P
[21:02] <bkerensa> they wont send me so much as a pen
[21:02] <bkerensa> :P
[21:03] <MarkDude> Maybe try the cowboy
[21:03] <nhaines> bkerensa: tell them the first step towards better PR is baby steps and also Kindles.
[21:03] <bkerensa> nhaines: :P
[21:03] <MarkDude> bkerensa, I think Garret still works there
[21:03] <nhaines> Also I doubt Apple needs the PR and I'm sure MS loves sending free software to FOSS advocates!
[21:04] <bkerensa> nhaines: The problem is they do most of their PR internally.... While other companies I work with have PR firms who love to spoil me
[21:04] <bkerensa> :D
[21:04] <nhaines> bkerensa: haha, that could be it!
[21:04] <nhaines> I know that Microsoft can shower people with software when they want.
[21:04] <bkerensa> nhaines: Yeah at a CTL party Microsoft offered me free boxed MS Office, Shirts and other stuffs
[21:05] <bkerensa> and I declined
[21:05] <bkerensa> :D
[21:05] <bkerensa> showed them my Ubuntu lanyard
[21:05] <bkerensa> one rep was like what is that and the other muttered "Open source"
[21:06] <bkerensa> MarkDude: You know MS can hook up decent drinks though :) remember the CLS after party that Intel and MS sponsored
[21:06] <nhaines> bkerensa: hahaha
[21:06] <MarkDude> Their $ does work well for drinks and food
[21:08] <gua> should've looked confused asked if MS Office was some knockoff of LibreOffice
[21:09] <nhaines> Ask them if they fixed ODF support yet.
[21:09] <MarkDude> http://fearthecowboy.com/
[21:10] <MarkDude> Open Source and MS :D
[21:11] <gua> i've been out of the loop for a little big, was the release of Oneiric pushed back?
[21:11] <gua> i thought they were going for the 10th
[21:11] <nhaines> gua: no, it's been the 13th since... well, before natty launched.  :)
[21:11] <nhaines> Ubuntu always releases on Thursdays.
[21:11] <gua> ah oh ok. i guess i never looked up the date but assumed
[21:12] <nhaines> At least for the last 14 releases.  :)
[21:12] <gua> can't break the tradition :)
[21:12] <nhaines> 10.10 was a big deal, and in fact, the only exception (so for the last 13 releases).
[21:12] <nhaines> But they did that for marketing (read: to be silly).
[21:13] <nhaines> On the bright side, now we get releases in the middle of the month instead of at the end!
[21:13] <gua> ah yeahh. i just remember people weren't so happy since some things were kinda broken
[21:13] <bkerensa> MarkDude: You know your going to make out like a bandit next year at OSCON? I will be saving some goodies for your arrival :D
[21:13] <nhaines> gua: That's the last 14 releases too.  :)
[21:13] <bkerensa> MarkDude: Oh and next year Ubuntu Oregon might have one of those XO laptops at our booth
[21:13] <gua> nhaines: hah, well some more than others
[21:14] <gua> heh that's kind of nice. actually releasing inside of month 04 and 10, instead of really close to the end and technically being within the month
[21:14] <nhaines> The "Breaky Brokehog" release was not the finiest.
[21:14] <nhaines> s/finiest/finest/
[21:14] <gua> still not sure what sabfdl was thinking with that name
[21:14] <MarkDude> You get great donations bkerensa
[21:14] <MarkDude> You need to do a session for the next Open Week
[21:15] <MarkDude> Share your knowledge
[21:15] <bkerensa> MarkDude: I dont have time :P
[21:15] <bkerensa> MarkDude: I'm epic behind right now
[21:15] <nhaines> Yeah, that one hour of talking takes a good five hours of preparation.
[21:15] <nhaines> (or at least beer)
[21:15] <bkerensa> LOL
[21:19] <MarkDude> This suit will be at OSCON next year bkerensa http://mairin.wordpress.com/2011/03/15/sxsw-expo-day-2/
[21:19] <MarkDude> You can plan a few pics with it
[21:22] <MarkDude> Maybe see if you can get a beer donation- and make another Maddog special brew
[21:23] <MarkDude> Beer and Jon are great promotional tools for folks in PNW
[21:23] <MarkDude> Did you see the last one made for him?
[21:24] <MarkDude> Brother Maddogs Belgium beer or sumthin
[21:24] <bkerensa> MarkDude: I guess we better bring our A-Game at OSCON
[21:24] <bkerensa> :D
[21:25] <MarkDude> Well you will
[21:25]  * MarkDude still thinks there is room for TWO Ubuntu booths
[21:25] <MarkDude> Oregon as a host
[21:25] <MarkDude> and a Local Team in general booth, with info for joining wordwide, etc
[21:26] <MarkDude> O'Reilly has given ok for such a thing already, the past 2 years
[21:35] <bkerensa> MarkDude: You mean a Canonical booth? :P
[21:36] <MarkDude> Well Canonical does not generally have specifics on joining local teams
[21:37] <MarkDude> the whole Aubergine and Orange banner deal
[21:38] <MarkDude> http://akgraner.com/?p=1052
[23:24] <MarkDude> OMG, this is horrible >> https://www.facebook.com/2share
[23:25] <MarkDude> FB sparkly gifs, great way to turn FB into myspace
[23:25] <MarkDude> rww you can help ruin fb if you wan to help
[23:28] <MarkDude> I just put a big sparkly heart on G's wall


[01:01] <cjohnston> I have a clue, but I don't know that I can help.
[01:01] <cjohnston> But I'll try
[01:13] <mhall119> drupal == It's a trap!
[03:15] <MTecknology> mhall119: ?
[03:15] <MTecknology> mhall119: there's one project left to convert to drupal 7; then I think I'm going to take a good _long_ break from irc and foss dev
[03:17] <MTecknology> I might start working on another foss project, but it's not going to be no no-commercial-gain type; if it's created I'll probably just be the facilitater
[03:22] <MTecknology> mhall119: I'll be honest about one thing though.... going from >150 channels to <20 makes irssi feel naked, but it's not all bad
[03:22] <mhall119> lol, I never got that many
[03:22] <mhall119> I make it a habit to prune my channels when I go above 50
[03:23] <mhall119> realistically there's 20 that I can really care about following at any given time
[03:23] <mhall119> that's about as far as my attention span can go
[03:27] <cjohnston> I want to get rid of all my channels
[03:27] <cjohnston> lol
[03:31] <mhall119> if only there was a way to /part or /leave a channel...
[03:37] <cjohnston> I know
[03:37] <cjohnston> where can i file the bug
[03:38] <MTecknology> cjohnston: I'm working toward it
[03:38] <MTecknology> and hopefully working toward getting my fiancee back
[03:39] <cjohnston> +5
[03:54] <MTecknology> cjohnston: too bad hope = 0 - days = -65
[03:55] <MTecknology> so missing about +60..
[04:00] <cjohnston> :-(
[14:47] <nigelb> mhall119: I have strange problem.
[14:47] <nigelb> Some of the items from the canonical job board feed aren't showing up in Google Reader.
[14:47] <nigelb> But I see them in the RSS feed.
[14:51] <mhall119> weird
[15:21] <cjohnston> nigelb: I have the same issue
[15:22] <nigelb> cjohnston: I'm glad its not just me.
[15:22] <nigelb> cjohnston: did your feed miss the Web Developer opening?
[15:22] <cjohnston> yes
[15:23] <nigelb> cjohnston: Mine did too. But I'm thinking its more of Google b0rk.
[16:16] <cjohnston> mhall119: you got the logs for LD right?
[16:18] <nigelb> logs?
[16:22] <cjohnston> to try to figure out why LD is so slow
[16:29] <nigelb> ah
[16:40] <mhall119> ld had logs?
[17:15] <cjohnston> mhall119: did you not get the email from RT?
[18:43] <mhall119> ~i could have
[18:43] <mhall119> what did it look like?
[22:55] <cjohnston> mhall119:
[22:55] <cjohnston> Attached please find a statement log for a single load of /teams (if I
[22:55] <cjohnston> scraped it out correctly...).
[22:55] <cjohnston> I'll mark this resolved on the assumption that changes need to happen
[22:55] <cjohnston> in the loco directory code itself.  Feel free to re-open if that isn't
[22:55] <cjohnston> the case.
[22:55] <cjohnston> Regards,
[22:55] <cjohnston> Paul/54


[07:34] <Madpilot> hi all
[08:04] <nixternal> hey Madpilot
[08:04] <Madpilot> hi nix
[08:05] <nixternal> so whats new in the docs world tonight?
[08:05] <Madpilot> not much.
[08:05] <Madpilot> I had a great seafood dinner earlier, though :)
[08:06] <nixternal> sounds good..i had steak on the grill and bunch of other stuff on the grill
[08:06] <nixternal> and some hacker pschors
[08:06] <nixternal> mmm mmm good
[08:10] <Madpilot> we had shrimp & avocado, then raw oysters, then crab... excellent stuff
[08:11] <nixternal> oh ya..that definately sound good
[08:11] <nixternal> mmm crab
[08:11] <nixternal> i used to catch them fresh daily when i lived in maryland
[11:48] <Madpilot> file under CategoryCrackSmoking: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OnlyOneGnomePanel
[11:48] <Madpilot> ;)
[01:05] <matthewrevell> Does anyone have a link to sign up to the Fridge editors mailing list?
[01:37] <mdke> matthewrevell: it's not a public mailing list, you can't sign up at the moment
[01:41] <matthewrevell> mdke: I was on it when it first launched but unsubscribed while I was moving mail accounts. Just trying to resubscribe :)
[01:41] <matthewrevell> Anyway, found it now :)
[01:41] <mdke> eh?
[01:41] <mdke> are you sure it's public?
[01:41] <mdke> it has been made pretty clear that it isn't
[01:41] <matthewrevell> I'm not saying it's public, I'm just saying that Jdub put me on the list when it launched.
[01:42] <matthewrevell> And all I wanted to do was resubscribe.
[01:42] <mdke> ah, I see
[01:42] <matthewrevell> Anyway, I'm back on it now, so no sorted :)
[01:43] <mdke> well, if you can subscribe without approval, that means it's public, right?
[01:43] <matthewrevell> According to the mail I got, my subscription is subject to approval, so I'm pretty certain it remains private.
[01:44] <mdke> ah, ic
[01:45] <mdke> good plan
[01:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> jenda, ping?
[01:56] <jenda> Kamping_Kaiser: ploink
[01:56] <Kamping_Kaiser> hope your not editing the page OneGnomePanel, becaouse im' about to...
[01:57] <jenda> Kamping_Kaiser: I saw the number of comments and gave up...
[01:57] <Kamping_Kaiser> heh. i'm just adding a few links to the bottom... cool.
[01:57] <jenda> Kamping_Kaiser: If Ubuntu switches to one gnome panel, I'll switch to two Ubuntus or something :)
[01:58] <Kamping_Kaiser> i hate the idea in general - i'm just going to link to the thread on gnome-usability about it, and my answer
[02:00] <jenda> Exactly... umm... I suppose there's no point in further debating why 'windows does it' is no argument in my eyes...
[02:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> jenda, http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2006-May/msg00095.html was my responce to the list
[02:03] <jenda> Kamping_Kaiser: I'll be sure to read it in a while... meeting now...
[02:03] <Kamping_Kaiser> yep, np
[02:47] <jsgotangco> good evening
[02:52] <pygi> hey jsgotangco
[03:21] <jenda> Kamping_Kaiser: very agreed there.
[03:22] <jenda> hey, what's the resource recommended by Ubuntu instead of the ubuntuguide.org? help.ubuntu.com?
[03:22] <Kamping_Kaiser> :) i was having a lucid moment
[03:22] <jjesse> jenda: yes
[03:22] <Kamping_Kaiser> afaik yes
[03:22] <jjesse> that is where the official documents are kept
[03:22] <jenda> thx
[03:24] <jenda> And... how's it with translations of that?
[03:24] <jjesse> jenda: you'll have to ask mdke, but i think its like help.ubuntu.com/countrycode
[03:24] <jjesse> for the translation that is available
[03:25] <jenda> I see... and if i wanted to translate... I'd save the page, translate... then send to mdke, I guess?
[03:26] <jenda> hmm... the hierarchic structure makes it a little more difficult.
[03:26] <Kamping_Kaiser> jenda, thats rather ineligent. i would suspect theres a better way
[03:26] <jenda> *hope
[03:27] <Kamping_Kaiser> yeh
[03:28] <jjesse> jenda: i think so, but don't know for sure,
[03:28] <jenda> Ah well... I guess it's wait-for-mdke time... ;)
[03:30] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[03:40] <mdke> jenda: http://help.ubuntu.com/index.cs.html
[03:56] <jenda> mdke: thx
[05:39] <matthewrevell> mpt: Hello
[05:39] <jsgotangco> another matt!
[05:40] <mpt> hey hey hey
[05:40] <matthewrevell> :)
[05:41] <mpt> There are rocking things happening with yelp
[05:42] <jsgotangco> yes
[05:43] <mpt> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=341797
[05:43] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 341797 in Search "Ignore stop words when generating search results" [Enhancement,New]
[05:44] <mpt> So for Edgy, I think it's quite feasible for the UDP to say "let's take the 50 most common searches on X and make sure they produce superb results"
[05:44] <matthewrevell> Excellent.
[05:44] <mpt> where X might be questions in the Ubuntu forums, or #ubuntu, or maybe even yelp itself
[05:44] <matthewrevell> Planted search results, then?
[05:45] <jsgotangco> nice!
[05:45] <mpt> matthewrevell, not really, but hopefully an equivalent of <meta name="keywords">
[05:46] <matthewrevell> Ah, I see. Sounds good.
[05:46] <mdke> both for beagle and non-beagle searches?
[05:46] <mpt> sure
[05:47] <mpt> Will Edgy include Beagle?
[05:47] <mdke> nice
[05:47] <mdke> guess it might yeah
[05:47] <mdke> the yelp search can be with or without
[05:47] <mdke> without being rebuit
[05:48] <mdke> so if you have beagle, it uses it, if not, it doesn't
[05:49] <jsgotangco> would be nice if it can all be done in deskbar :/
[05:52] <mpt> mdke, e.g., in that "Dapper" thing :-)
[05:53] <mdke> mpt: hmm?
[05:56] <mpt> mdke, yelp in Dapper has non-beagle search
[05:56] <mdke> mpt: or beagle search, if you install beagle
[05:56] <mpt> which I (think I) haven't
[05:56] <mdke> right yeah
[05:56] <mdke> I mean, yelp is built with beagle support
[05:57] <mdke> so, here's a crazy idea.
[05:57] <mpt> matthewrevell, thanks for pointing out my curmudgeonliness in public, I do need reminding every so often :-)
[05:58] <matthewrevell> mpt: Oh, did I say something in response to your letter on LugRadio?
[05:58] <mpt> well, one of you did
[05:58] <matthewrevell> mpt: Ah yes, Stuart did :)
[05:58] <mdke> matthewrevell: it's kinda difficult to know who is who
[05:58] <matthewrevell> mpt: I'm not sure what he said, I was just astounded to hear him admit he was wrong :)
[05:59] <mdke> we could ditch the yelp table of contents, and make our own. On the negative side, it would require us wholly abandoning all the categories and links to the documents provided. These would be counteracted by the fact that (a) the documents are available from About->Help in each individual program (except the man/info pages), and (b) you can get them via the search. On the plus side, it would mean that we could have a front page which is actually helpful
[06:00] <mdke> discuss
[06:02] <mdke> the alternative would be waiting to see if upstream improves the categorisation system for 2.16
[06:02] <matthewrevell> mdke: There's no half-way house, then?
[06:02] <mdke> matthewrevell: no, I can't think of one
[06:02] <jsgotangco> i don't see that changing very much soon
[06:02] <matthewrevell> mdke: Sorry, I don't know the inner workings of yelp.
[06:03] <jsgotangco> there's so much cruft on the docs
[06:03] <matthewrevell> I'll go read up on Yelp.
[06:03] <mdke> jsgotangco: they are looking to improve things, but drastic change will need to wait until at least 2.18
[06:03] <jsgotangco> 2.18 is good
[06:03] <mdke> matthewrevell: a _female_ scottish accent, to distinguish you from whoever takes on the male scottish accent
[06:04] <mdke> matthewrevell: I don't think there is much to read up on, tbh
[06:04] <mpt> mdke, +1 on a custom front page
[06:04] <matthewrevell> mdke: That's me, usually :)
[06:04] <mdke> ok, someone else gets the girly voice
[06:04] <matthewrevell> mdke: I have to admit that I've rarely used Yelp.
[06:04] <mpt> Burying it in a menu unhelpfully called "System" doesn't help
[06:04] <jsgotangco> i dont blame ya
[06:05] <mpt> And putting it alongside half a dozen other possible sources of answers to your question doesn't help either

[06:05] <matthewrevell> This is a terrible admission to make in the ubuntu-doc channel
[06:05] <matthewrevell> but the first thing I do on a new install is remove the lifering from the top bar
[06:06] <mdke> matthewrevell: heh, that's why it was removed from default installs for 6.06
[06:06] <jsgotangco> we don't have the lifering by default now
[06:06] <mdke> shame though
[06:06] <jsgotangco> we get 4 more in return though!
[06:06] <jsgotangco> =D
[06:06] <joachim-n> hi
[06:06] <joachim-n> yelp search doesn't work for me in Dapper, by the way
[06:07] <matthewrevell> Ach, gotta drive home, catch you all later
[06:07] <mdke> joachim-n: works ok here. Did you file a bug?
[06:07] <joachim-n> can you guys file bugs on the cruft? I'll see what I can do
[06:07] <jsgotangco> works here too
[06:07] <jsgotangco> sure
[06:07] <joachim-n> not yet, actually. In Launchpad or gnome bugzilla though?
[06:07] <mdke> joachim-n: it's not that, the problem is that the whole categorisation system sucks, as you know
[06:08] <joachim-n> indeed
[06:08] <mdke> joachim-n: either is fine. launchpad works
[06:08] <joachim-n> I had a thought about yelp -- I'd really like it to automagically merge our desktop guide with the Ubuntu one
[06:08] <joachim-n> since they don't have much overlap
[06:08] <jsgotangco> is it more with scrollkepper rather than yelp making the categorisation suck?
[06:08] <joachim-n> & I think the long-term to go to smaller documents would help with that
[06:08] <mdke> how could that happen automatically?
[06:08] <joachim-n> yeah, a lot of it is scrollkeeper
[06:09] <joachim-n> well, instead of a massive user guide document, you have many small topics, each a single file
[06:09] <joachim-n> a contents page becomes a list of links to lots of topics
[06:09] <joachim-n> and yelp magically should know how to navigate you based on that
[06:09] <joachim-n> (this is all pie in the sky stuff)
[06:09] <mdke> right, but the desktop guide would still have to link to the upstream topics, it can't happen automatically
[06:10] <joachim-n> then Ubuntu docs could create a contents page that picks out the GNOME topics, and also yours
[06:10] <mdke> the reason we don't link to the upstream topics right now is that the desktop guide gets published outside the help system
[06:10] <joachim-n> yeah... I want to find a way to do that :)
[06:10] <mdke> on the website etc
[06:10] <joachim-n> well, you can stick the upstream topics on your website :) they're GFDL after all
[06:11] <mdke> that's true, but we'd need to patch them
[06:11] <joachim-n> anyway, for all this to happen we have to hit Shaun with the Project Mallard stick
[06:11] <mdke> no, not necessarily
[06:11] <mdke> it can be done in the current system
[06:11] <mdke> but it's a lot of work
[06:11] <joachim-n> yeah
[06:12] <mdke> and you guys would need to have a string freeze
[06:12] <mdke> so that the patching, translating and integration work could happen after that
[06:12] <jsgotangco> really i think its scrollkeeper that thing is reliable but so ancient with how things are indexed
[06:13] <joachim-n> the integration should be automatic. all done with xml includes
[06:13] <mpt> mdke, tell me about doing it with the current system
[06:13] <mdke> well, the categories are certainly horrendous
[06:13] <mpt> how would that work?
[06:13] <mdke> mpt: well, say for the sake of argument we had  the desktop guide as the front page of yelp
[06:14] <mdke> inside that the sections could easily link to the gnome user guide, as appropriate
[06:14] <mdke> we'd have to add links, patch the gnome docs to make them work with the Ubuntu changes to stuff, and try and ensure that we could still have translation working nicely
[06:15] <mpt> ah
[06:15] <mpt> bbl, lunch
[06:17] <jsgotangco> wow
[06:17] <jsgotangco> that looks...hard
[06:17] <mdke> well, adding the links is the easy bit
[06:17] <jsgotangco> not to mention there are like a hundred more help pages that might not even relate to ubuntu-docs
[06:18] <jsgotangco> like the scrollkeeper and zenity manual for instance
[06:18] <mdke> I think the hardest bit would be getting everything on the website, especially for the translations
[06:18] <mdke> jsgotangco: yeah, we'd have to ditch them entirely, leaving them available only from search
[06:18] <jsgotangco> the nice thing is that we have updated a11y documentation as well from upstream
[06:19] <jsgotangco> (or is it updated i wonder)
[06:19] <mdke> yes, that is nice. Although not inconsistent with what I was talking about, that could be linked
[06:22] <mdke> mpt: ideally in fact rather than having the desktop guide as the front page, we'd create our own index document(s) pointing to non-overlapping stuff
[06:24] <mdke> one day, that could potentially be identical to the wiki index page. But that will depend on (a) good processes for QA of community docs, and (b) the moin<->docbook cleverness
[06:43] <mdke> mpt: the other thing of course is that we would probably have to kick into touch the idea of developing a printable book, or alternatively maintain both systems at the same time
[07:18] <mpt> mdke, sure, on-screen help and books are very different things
[07:19] <mpt> different paragraph styles, different structure
[07:20] <mdke> mpt: yes, Im not sure the team would be happy with giving up writing printable guides though
[07:20] <LaserJock> :'(
[07:20] <mpt> Not to discourage anyone from writing a book if they want to do that, but anyone can do that at any time, whereas Ubuntu should only ever have a single help system
[07:20] <mpt> If you want to write books go to town, write as many as you want
[07:21] <mdke> we might be able to do both, we'll have to think about it
[07:21] <mdke> bbl
[07:21] <LaserJock> well, in the case of the Packaging Guide there were several people who wanted a print copy of the Guide, not necessarily a book, it you know what I mean
[07:22] <jjesse> printed copies would be through lulu
[07:22] <jjesse> ] correct?
[07:23] <LaserJock> I'm not sure what mdke and mpt are kicking around (just skimmed the backlog) but we have all the guides on lulu.com now
[07:24] <jjesse> yeah i couldn't figure it out either.... but let me tell you getting a book pulbished is a long drawn out process
[07:24] <jjesse> like i just got an email that the kubuntu chapter for the book has its screenshots all messed up
[07:24] <jjesse> again :(
[07:59] <mdke> LaserJock: the packaging guide is the sort of thing that could easily remain in book form
[08:00] <LaserJock> were you talking about merging upstream docs with the UG ?
[08:00] <mdke> I'll write up a proposal, and we can talk about it when it's more obvious what it might look like
[08:00] <mdke> LaserJock: more or less...
[08:00] <LaserJock> heh, seems like it would be pretty tough
[08:00] <mdke> my idea would be to divide up our books and mix in the upstream docs
[08:01] <jjesse> would that include doing the same for kubuntu docs?
[08:02] <mdke> jjesse: in theory it would be doable for kubuntu docs, although I'm not convinced there are sufficient contributors to do something so ambitious
[08:02] <jjesse> grin i agree there are not a lot of contribturos yet :)
[08:03] <mdke> ok, so here would be a potential way to present the front page of yelp: http://pastebin.com/704741
[08:04] <mdke> that has been done on the top of my head while on the train so obviously it is really rough
[08:06] <mdke> brb
[08:25] <mdke> mpt, LaserJock: I've started a braindump spec here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MatthewEast/HelpfulHelpVersionMinusOne
[08:37] <jjesse> when did we discuss publishing books?  are these books different then the lulu.com ones?
[08:39] <mdke> jjesse: by publishing books, I mean what we currently do
[08:39] <mdke> i.e. publishing books in the distribution, on the website, and on lulu
[08:40] <jjesse> ah i got a little confused
[08:41] <mdke> i follow you
[08:41] <mdke> I meant "book" in the docbook sense ;)
[08:41] <jjesse> i thought of book as in go to barnes and noble and buy a book
[08:42] <mdke> yeah
[08:42] <mdke> or lulu.com :D
[08:44] <mpt> mdke, remember https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuHelp/Contents ? :-)
[08:44] <mdke> mpt: no, looking. Presumably it's similar?
[08:45] <mpt> yep
[08:49] <mpt> ... sink slowly into the Mediterranean?
[08:49] <LaserJock> hehe
[08:56] <LaserJock> hehe
[08:56] <mgalvin> :)
[09:28] <LaserJock> I thought we weren't doing ubiquity documentation because it already had documentation
[09:32] <LaserJock> mdke: I like you layout idea
[09:37] <LaserJock> I was just thinking that it might be better to get out of the "Guide" mentality a little bit
[09:37] <LaserJock> maybe a more holistic approach, which is what I think you did
[09:38] <mpt> hooray
[09:38] <LaserJock> hehe, what does mpt hate, "guide", "section", something else I think
[09:40] <LaserJock> I think that layout would be a whole lot nicer for users
[09:40] <mdke> me too
[09:41] <LaserJock> I've been thinking about FAQs and the whole Q&A layout
[09:42] <LaserJock> because I installed ubuntu on my laptop at home the other day in preperation for Paris
[09:42] <mpt> LaserJock, "guide", "documentation", and "this section"
[09:42] <LaserJock> ah documentation
[09:42] <LaserJock> to be honest, I found the DG pretty unhelpful
[09:43] <LaserJock> I know that I'm not the average user
[09:43] <mpt> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2006-April/005889.html
[09:45] <LaserJock> but it really didn't seem easy to find info when if I knew what I wanted to find
[09:45] <LaserJock> it reads well for an intro to Ubuntu
[09:46] <LaserJock> but it isn't terribly good as a "How do I ..."
[09:47] <LaserJock> what I was thinking about was what if we added a FAQ ("Common Questions" maybe) that would like to the appropiate section in the other docs
[09:48] <LaserJock> does that sound like a dumb idea?
[09:50] <mdke> I'm not terribly keen on FAQs
[09:51] <mdke> but i dunno
[09:51] <LaserJock> I know you aren't :-)
[09:51] <LaserJock> but I just gave up on DG and used the wiki
[09:52] <LaserJock> and got a whole lot more useful info
[09:52] <LaserJock> which was frustrating because I know how much work the DG was and that it is a well written doc
[09:52] <mdke> could that be because the answer wasn't in the DG?
[09:52] <mdke> or it was, but was hard to find?
[09:53] <jjesse> for me the questions i need help on won't be found on the DG, but on the wiki
[09:53] <jjesse> for example: How to install VMWare is not covered by the desktop guide and shouldn't be
[09:53] <LaserJock> mdke: the problem is I don't know, there isn't a TOC, index or anythin
[09:54] <LaserJock> jjesse: why shouldn't that be in the DG?
[09:54] <mdke> LaserJock: well, there are, but they are not very deep. But I wanted to know whether the answer was in the DG at all
[09:55] <jjesse> LaserJock: because if you add help entries for every single program into the DG then you will have a totally unmanagable book
[09:55] <jjesse> DG should be for common problems and to be honest VMWare is not a common problem
[09:56] <LaserJock> jjesse: makes sense, how do we know what *is* a common problem though?
[09:56] <mdke> right, but moving to an article based system would mean that this sort of documentation could be included
[09:56] <LaserJock> mdke: hmm, I can't remember what is was that I was looking for, but I think perhaps it wasn't in there
[09:57] <LaserJock> mdke: the HTML is easier than yelp because you get 1 more level
[09:57] <mdke> yes, that's right
[09:57] <LaserJock> mdke: in yelp, for Common Tasks all I get is Music, Video, Internet, etc. but I have no idea what they cover
[09:58] <LaserJock> so there isn't an easy way for me to see if the DG covers it or not, I suppose the search function might work, but that isn't doc specific is it?
[09:58] <mdke> LaserJock: well, in that case the names are quite accurate indications, no?
[09:58] <LaserJock> yes and no
[09:59] <LaserJock> I don't want to have to read through all of the Music section to see what things are covered
[09:59] <mdke> right yeah
[09:59] <LaserJock> that's why I say it is a nice read
[10:00] <LaserJock> but for somebody wan't to just "pop" into one particular section it is difficult
[10:00] <LaserJock> that's where maybe a FAQ style thing that would then link to the right sections would be nice
[10:01] <mdke> or, modularising the help system a lot more
[10:01] <LaserJock> so you have the nice read for people who are new to Ubuntu/Linux and want to learn all this things
[10:01] <LaserJock> yeah
[10:01] <LaserJock> that would work too, except it is nice for new users to get the flow of the DG
[10:21] <nixternal> what a nice day today
[10:21] <jjesse> grin tell me about it, been hard to be at work all day :(
[10:21] <nixternal> i actually for the first time in my life watched futbol, not the typical fall football im used to...and i actually got into it...my x-wife would be amazed
[10:22] <nixternal> i mowed the lawn today, watered it, planted some new vegetables, flowers, laid down some new mulch
[10:22] <nixternal> i love contracting ;)
[10:23] <nixternal> oh...and every single one of my stocks are down today
[10:23] <LaserJock> hmm
[10:24] <LaserJock> I dug trenches for a new sprinkler system last night
[10:24] <nixternal> i picked up some LEXR shares 5 minutes ago...now i hope they go up a little
[10:24] <nixternal> LaserJock: i would love to do that..but here in the chicagoland area, my yard isn't big enough for that ;)
[10:24] <LaserJock> ugg, I wish mine was small sometimes
[10:24] <nixternal> hehe
[10:24] <nixternal> trade ya
[10:24] <LaserJock> I'm doing lawn on a 75'x30' section
[10:25] <nixternal> i want to do some full blown landscaping, but the size of my yard, it would look retarded
[10:25] <nixternal> thats about my entire property line
[10:26] <nixternal> i think it might be time to get back to work full time...because day trading hasn't been nice to me lately
[10:27] <nixternal> actually, it hasn't been really nice to me at all...i have friends who sit at home doing this stuff and are millionaires...i can't even make a freakin' dollar today
[11:16] <mdke> matthewrevell: still around?
[11:23] <Burgwork> LaserJock, you got mail!
[11:36] <LaserJock> yep
[11:37] <LaserJock> bah, I went to eat lucnch
[11:37] <LaserJock> and read something interesting
[11:37] <LaserJock> so I picked up a InfoWorld magazine that was in the lounge
[11:37] <LaserJock> and read a story about "What would happen in Microsft vanished"
[11:38] <LaserJock> the conclusion was:
[11:38] <LaserJock> if MS didn't exist we would have to invent it
[11:38] <LaserJock> becuase it is a standard (albeit a bad one)
[11:38] <LaserJock> and it has better security response than Apple or Linux
[11:42] <LaserJock> Burgwork: although he sent me a .deb :(
[11:44] <Burgwork> LaserJock, noticed taht
[11:44] <Burgwork> LaserJock, bitch at him
[11:44] <LaserJock> Burgwork: "
[11:44] <LaserJock> "I want tarballs, dammit"
[11:44] <LaserJock> ;-)
[11:46] <LaserJock> mdke: just a little while longer, and the torture will end
[11:47] <mdke> it's not the secrecy, but the public secrecy that has caused me to get all samurai on yo ass
[11:47] <LaserJock> yeah, but what's the fun of having a secret if nobody knows about it ;-)
[11:48] <Burgwork> mdke, all about building excitment
[11:48] <Burgwork> plus I am too lazy to /query
[11:48] <mdke> yeah
[11:49] <mdke> well, I slay lazy people too
[11:49] <Burgwork> indeed
[11:49] <LaserJock> I *did* want to meet mdke in person, but now I'm not so sure
[11:50] <LaserJock> at least I'll need to make sure his cutlery is safely put away
[11:50] <mdke> heh
[11:51] <mdke> robotgeek: just dealing with someone in #ubuntu-it who has used easy ubuntu and has a sources.list which contains 5.10, even though he was originally using 6.06. Unsurprisingly, his system is not in a good state
[11:51] <mgalvin> ah crap, i just realized i didn't drop mdke's name with the lulu stuff in UWN
[11:51] <Burgwork> LaserJock, not sure I would call a samurai sword cutlery myself
[11:52] <LaserJock> mgalvin: tsk, tsk
[11:52] <mdke> next time
[11:52] <mgalvin> indeed!
[11:55] <mdke> mgalvin: oh wait, the lulu stuff was there?
[11:55] <mgalvin> yea in issue 2
[11:55] <mdke> oh right, who gives a damn then, nice
[11:56] <mgalvin> at least i linked to your email about it
[11:56] <mdke> you don't need to drop my name in, as long as Lulu is there, that's great
[11:57] <LaserJock> but the MdkeIsAGod crowd might be bummed out ;-)
[11:57] <mdke> my mum?
[11:57] <mdke> she'll be fine
[11:58] <LaserJock> not just mum


[08:22] <shang__> hi all, can we remove a node from maas (status: allocated to X) without destroying the whole environment?
[09:27] <shang> hi all, I have re-register the node, but the node didn't refresh the information somehow. It is trying to reach the old info: http://ubuntuone.com/5foIzHnGDKOYzAqvHAGECm
[09:28] <shang> the URL it is trying to reach is not there, because I have re-enlist/re-commissioning already
[15:30] <roaksoax> smoser: ping
[16:13] <roaksoax> Daviey: ping
[16:18] <Daviey> roaksoax: hey
[16:21] <roaksoax> Daviey: howdy! so I was wondering if you ever experienced this:
[16:22] <roaksoax> Daviey: when trying to get the config from the BMC, the network always report IP address of <IP_ADDRESS>
[16:22] <roaksoax> Daviey: even though the IP address is set
[16:22] <roaksoax> Daviey: both with freeipmi tools and with ipmitool
[16:22] <roaksoax> Daviey: this seems to be messing up with ipmi detection
[16:25] <Daviey> roaksoax: nope, not seen that before
[16:25] <Daviey> ugh
[16:25] <Daviey> What hardware?
[16:25] <roaksoax> Daviey: micro servers
[16:25] <roaksoax> Daviey: and seems to be also happening with HP Proliant's
[16:25] <Daviey> hmm, their implementation of IPMI is pants
[16:26] <Daviey> I did mess up networking once, had to use the kernel path to fix it.
[16:26] <Daviey> roaksoax: sorry, No idea!
[16:26] <roaksoax> funny thing is that this used to work and now it doesn't
[16:26] <roaksoax> unless that's something to do with the interfaces in the kernel itself
[16:28] <Daviey> shrug !
[16:28] <Daviey> Sorry roaksoax, not adding much value to this i know
[16:28] <roaksoax> Daviey: no worries, was worth a shot to see if you had experienced that before :)
[17:41] <smoser> roaksoax, here now.
[17:49] <roaksoax> smoser: no worries :) found what I was looking for, thanks though


[00:54] <BUGabundo> hitting the pillow. gdnuit everyone
[02:03] <lfaraone> bdmurray: hey, could you comment on whether or not what's suggested in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-sugarteam/2009-October/001237.html is a bad idea? Bugs in packages in a "proposed" PPA shouldn't be reported against Ubuntu, even if they are intended to eventually land there, right?
[02:19] <MTecknology> What should I do for bug 404933?
[02:19] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 404933 in apt "apt-get crash at reloading sources.list" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/404933
[02:29] <bdmurray> looks like a legitimate bug / crash to me
[02:34] <bdmurray> lfaraone: generally speaking that is correct
[02:36] <lfaraone> bdmurray: okay, is this an exception? Right now the sugar packages in Karmic don't work at all, and this effort is the best we'll get to having working LTS packages.
[02:37] <bdmurray> lfaraone: is the person creating the ppa packages subscribed to the ubuntu packages?  if so that seems fine - but again this is generally not okay
[02:48] <lfaraone> bdmurray: understood.
[02:53] <MTecknology> bdmurray: what should I do for it?
[02:53] <bdmurray> MTecknology: I'm trying to recreate it at the moment
[02:54] <bdmurray> You could check and see if all the dependencies of apt are ubuntu packages though
[03:00] <bdmurray> MTecknology: there incompleted for you.  If it stil does happen I'd leave the bug open but get the priority set to low
[03:00] <bdmurray> eh, I set the priority now
[03:02] <MTecknology> bdmurray: ok, thanks
[03:03] <MTecknology> bdmurray: I'd like to get my bug list down to 0 :P
[03:03] <MTecknology> of course there's a couple that will never be closed..
[03:03] <MTecknology> like "fix all security issues"
[04:06] <MTecknology> Who can I assign this to? 423930
[04:35] <akio> I found my bug!
[04:35] <akio> I just marked mine as a duplicate
[04:36] <akio> Bug #415023
[04:36] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 415023 in gnome-power-manager "brightness is broken on MSI WIND U100" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/415023
[13:28] <ikt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/seamonkey/+bug/437595 <- tags:	 removed: need-amd64-retrace <- any guides/wiki on how I would do this?
[13:28] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 437595 in seamonkey "regchrome crashed with SIGSEGV" [Undecided,New]
[13:32] <james_w> ikt: hi, do what?
[13:34] <ikt> retrace
[13:34] <ikt> oh it's done it
[13:38] <james_w> ikt: yeah, it was done, but the process failed for some reason
[13:38] <james_w> so the information isn't very helpful
[13:38] <ikt> does it still need it?
[13:38] <james_w> is the bug reproducible?
[13:38] <ikt> good question, I'll check that now
[13:46] <ikt> yep
[13:46] <ikt> james_w: yes :)
[13:46] <ikt> I've got apport pop up in front of me
[13:47] <james_w> cool
[13:47] <james_w> are you up to date with all the latest packages?
[13:47] <ikt> as far as I can see
[13:48] <ikt> I get my updates from a local mirror, will change over to the main mirror and see
[13:51] <ikt> oh damnit
[13:51] <ikt> my local isp isn't updating there mirror quick enough -_-
[14:39] <ikt> james_w: hrmm installing latest updates seems to fix it
[15:03] <james_w> ikt: that's good
[15:04] <joaopinto> there is really something seriously broken with sound on karmic
 there is really something seriously broken with sound on karmic <- pulseaudio[1960]: ratelimit.c: 32 events suppressed <- plenty of these in my log files :/
[15:48] <virtuald> i've got gigs of pulse fail in my logs. it doesn't get along with my alc883.
[15:54] <joaopinto> well, I have attempts to communitcate with a bluetooth audio device (which I don't have), and most sdl games just use 100% cpu
[15:55] <joaopinto> ALC888 here
[16:09] <dtchen> joaopinto: there's always something broken with sound.
[16:10] <ikt> y?
[16:10] <dtchen> what's frustrating is that what's broken tends to differ for each combination of hardware.
[16:10] <joaopinto> dtchen, right, except that on my case are regressions, and I see more people reporting the same problems
[16:11] <joaopinto> and I am not sure how my plain desktop hw is related to an attempt to connect to a bt device :)
[16:11] <dtchen> there isn't one global configuration that you can tweak and make everything better.
[16:12] <dtchen> joaopinto: is the BT module for PA loaded?
[16:12] <joaopinto> dtchen, how do I check that ?
[16:12] <joaopinto> janito@janito-desktop:~$ espeak test
[16:12] <joaopinto> bt_audio_service_open: connect() failed: Connection refused (111)
[16:12] <dtchen> pactl list|grep 'Name: module-bluetooth'
[16:12] <joaopinto> it's not
[16:13] <dtchen> is the bluetooth "service" running?
[16:13] <dtchen> service bluetooth stop
[16:13] <joaopinto> root        29     2  0 16:01 ?        00:00:00 [bluetooth]
[16:13] <joaopinto> yes, but I did disabled before
[16:13] <joaopinto> and re-enabled
[16:14] <dtchen> the SDL bit I'll be looking at today; don't know if bugabundo mentioned it to you
[16:14] <joaopinto> anyway I have no plans to use bluetooth on my desktop
[16:14] <dtchen> ikt: is rtkit still installed?
[16:14] <joaopinto> ok, those are my two problems, which have been reported by other people also, and both have multiple  bug reports
[16:14] <dtchen> the SDL bit is SDL's fault
[16:15] <joaopinto> bt_audio_service_open and libsdl-alsa
[16:15] <dtchen> I have no idea about BT & PA; I don't have any hardware to test.
[16:15] <joaopinto> libsdl-pulseaudio works fine
[16:15] <joaopinto> dtchen, I don't have any BT hw
[16:15] <joaopinto> this is a regular desktop
[16:15] <dtchen> joaopinto: if it really bothers you, try working around it by unloading the kmods
[16:15] <dtchen> blacklist them if necessary in /etc/modprobe.d/foo.conf
[16:17] <dtchen> virtuald: unfortunately it's quite complex; different revisions of codecs can be initialized wrong by BIOSes
[16:17] <joaopinto> dtchen, it bothers me as, I would like to understand why is the sound initializaion trying to connect to a type of device which is not available, also because there are multiple bugs for this problem, and they are likely to increase :)
[16:17] <dtchen> joaopinto: yes, I empathize
[16:17] <dtchen> joaopinto: unfortunately I have no time to tackle every bug; at this point in Karmic, I'm tackling the egregious ones.
[16:18] <joaopinto> socket(PF_FILE, SOCK_STREAM, 0)         = 3
[16:18] <joaopinto> connect(3, {sa_family=AF_FILE, path=@"/org/bluez/audio"}, 110) = -1 ECONNREFUSED (Connection refused)
[16:18] <joaopinto> dtchen, this is a regression
[16:18] <dtchen> joaopinto: are you getting spammed in syslog or something?
 ikt: is rtkit still installed? <- neg
[16:19] <joaopinto> no, I am checking an strace
[16:19] <ikt> it's ok, it's not a big issue, I think I reported it in a bug a while ago, will check
[16:19] <joaopinto> the bt_* errors are common stdout messages on application startup
[16:19] <dtchen> joaopinto: well, that strace needs a bit more context. Do you have the latest dbus updates installed and have rebooted?
[16:19] <joaopinto> on the strace I see an /usr/share/alsa/bluetooth.conf before the error
[16:20] <dtchen> ikt: do you always receive the spam, or does it only appear after a certain operation, like after resuming from suspend-to-*?
[16:20] <joaopinto> dtchen, yup, latest updates installed
[16:20] <ikt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/433865
[16:20] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 433865 in pulseaudio "pulseaudio logs" [Undecided,New]
[16:20] <virtuald> dtchen: do you think i should flash my bios?
[16:21] <virtuald> dtchen: i have an asus p5k and there is a newer bios image
[16:21] <ikt> actually I don't have that issue anymore
[16:21] <dtchen> virtuald: I would read the release notes first.
[16:21] <virtuald> ok
[16:21] <dtchen> ikt: err, which syslog spam issue are you experienciing _now_?
[16:22] <ikt> pulseaudio[1960]: ratelimit.c: 32 events suppressed <- what is the error message saying? I've got too many sound events happening at once?
[16:22] <joaopinto> dtchen, strace $(which espeak)
[16:22] <virtuald> ikt: should be more info above
[16:22] <ikt> dtchen: in regards to the launchpad bug I linked, was that fixed when rtkit was uninstalled?
[16:23] <ikt> none, just cron
[16:24] <dtchen> ikt: it's hard to tell without additional context?
[16:24] <ikt> ah np
[16:24] <dtchen> ikt: just so we're on the same page, can you make sure that you have our staging PA package installed from the ubuntu-audio-dev PPA?
[16:24] <ikt> sure
[16:25] <dtchen> ikt: the only functional changes are for the pm-utils bugs fixed and crappy BT patch being removed
[16:27] <ikt> installed
[16:27] <ikt> and updated, need restart?
[16:28] <dtchen> ikt: killall pulseaudio  should suffice
[16:28] <ikt> sweet :)
[16:30] <dtchen> /var/log/user.log should have it, anyhow
[16:31] <joaopinto> ok, this one was easy, /usr/share/alsa/bluetooth.conf is making alsa attempt to connect to a bt service when it's not available
[16:31] <Tracy_P> Fresh install of Ubuntu 9.01, log in screen, username, password, I start to see the desktop, bars at top at bottom some icons appear, then back to login the again. What package might be causing my problem?
[16:32] <dtchen> joaopinto: I suppose you could deinstall bluez-alsa
[16:32] <dtchen> we don't really have the functionality in alsa-lib yet to selectively disable virtual device probing at init
[16:33] <joaopinto> dtchen, the issue is, myself as many users are likely to disable bluetooth services on desktop systems, I don't need any blue* :)
[16:35] <joaopinto> but having a work around is sufficient for now, at least I am sure the other issues are not related to this error :P
[16:56] <joaopinto> dtchen, thanks for the hints, I am commeting some bugs which have incorrectly related broken sound issues to the BT error messages
[16:59] <dtchen> joaopinto: thanks!
[17:02] <joaopinto> can someone else test: espeak test; espeak test; espeak test; espeak test
[17:03] <joaopinto> it randomly fails to play, it seems it fails during initialization or something similar
[17:06] <dtchen> yes, reproducible (for the reasons outlined in -+1)
[17:06] <joaopinto> -+1 P ?
[17:07] <ikt> bit weird
[17:07] <dtchen> (#ubuntu+1)
[17:07] <dtchen> err, wait. That's this channel, not +1.
[17:07] <ikt> bt_audio_service_open: connect() failed: Connection refused (111) <- but the sound 'test' was played correctly
[17:08] <joaopinto> ikt, just purge bluez-alsa
[17:08] <joaopinto> that's not part of the problem :P
[17:08] <ikt> is np
[17:09] <joaopinto> time to scroll on +1
[17:10] <joaopinto> dtchen, could you summarize on a single line please ? there's a long text to read :P
[17:10] <joaopinto> it's known, and it's being fixed ?
[17:11] <dtchen> joaopinto: it's known, and it's being investigated for 10.04
[17:12] <joaopinto> is it espeak sppecific or library/backend related ?
[17:13] <dtchen> at the very least the latter
[17:14] <dtchen> could include the former, but that's part of the to-be-investigated
[17:14] <joaopinto> ok, adding to the bug report
[17:17] <joaopinto> dtchen, bug 425964, are we likely to move to libsdl PA as default ?
[17:17] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 425964 in libsdl1.2 "SDL - Prefer Pulseaudio over ALSA" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/425964
[17:19] <dtchen> joaopinto: don't know. We have to mind Kubuntu and Xubuntu, who don't use PA.
[17:19] <joaopinto> oh :\
[17:20] <dtchen> yeah, it complicates things
[17:20] <dtchen> other distros (e.g., Fedora, Mandriva) only have one audio config to worry about
[17:20] <dtchen> we have two
[17:22] <maco> what package do bugs in keyboard layouts go against
[17:22] <maco> ??
[17:23] <joaopinto> dtchen, this SDL issue is quite old, reported since May, is it likely to get fixed this weekend ?
[17:25] <dtchen> joaopinto: no
[17:25] <joaopinto> ouch :\
[17:27] <dtchen> joaopinto: we're five days from final release; it's not a kitten-killer bug
[17:27] <dtchen> that said, I'll have packages in the ubuntu-audio-dev PPA
[17:28] <joaopinto> dtchen, having 50% of the games using 100% of the cpu by default, on random systems, is not a kitten-killer bug :) ?
[17:29] <dtchen> IMO, no
[17:29] <dtchen> "deletes files on boot" would be
[17:30] <joaopinto> what is what I call very low standards for bugs :)
[17:37] <joaopinto> I am considering to file a mega bug for the sdl issue, there are too many bugs filled for different packages for a backend problem
[17:39] <dtchen> "mega bug"?
[17:39] <joaopinto> to set all those bugs as duplicate
[17:39] <dtchen> I'd argue that it's best to triage them into categories, but it's not a big deal. I can enumerate all the bugs in the changelog.
[17:40] <joaopinto> most of them mention, game uses 100% cpu,blocks on exit, libsdl-pulseaudio fixes
[18:38] <lfaraone> james_w: re bug 371019 , is there a reason the "remember my authorization" checkbox has disappeared in Karmic?
[18:38] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 371019 in policykit-kde "software updates password remember order wrong" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/371019
[19:57] <matti> ;]
[21:12] <mirda> hi everyone
[21:13] <mirda> I'm using 9.10 Karmic, and keep having trouble in regards to disabling the emulate3buttons feature of xorg. I wrote a .fdi file and placed it in /etc/hal/fdi/policy
[21:13] <mirda> anyone know what might be my problem?


[08:37] <confuseABC> hi anyone know the channel of ubuntu channel for question&help?
[16:50] <AlbertoSN> Hi!
[16:51] <AlbertoSN> I wanted to ask something.
[16:51] <AlbertoSN> In the vUDS, do you need to have Google's Hangouts plug-in installed to participate?


[12:00] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:25] <jbicha> Eickmeyer[m]: this preserves compatibility with older nautilus versions so something like this should be upstreamable for kdeconnect
[13:25] <jbicha> https://github.com/GSConnect/gnome-shell-extension-gsconnect/pull/1441/commits/c7b8aeddcab97ecbaefa35ccbfde0e1a1928e493
[13:51] <Eickmeyer[m]> jbicha: Ok, that clarifies things a bit. I'll see where such a patch could apply.
[13:53] <Eickmeyer[m]> Tricky, since kdeconnect doesn't interface too deeply with nautilus.
[14:06] <jbicha> Eickmeyer[m]: you just have to update the similar line of code in the nautilus-extension directory :)
[14:06] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, I found it.
[14:08] <Eickmeyer[m]> jbicha: It's nearly identical code.
[14:13] <Eickmeyer[m]> jbicha: created https://invent.kde.org/network/kdeconnect-kde/-/merge_requests/488
[17:10] <Eickmeyer[m]> RikMills: So, turns out that, even though I'm a member of Kubuntu Ninjas that I'm not allowed to touch kdeconnect-kde's launchpad git, not even to view?
[17:11] <Eickmeyer[m]> I can view everything else, but that one is marked "private" for whatever reason.
[17:16] <RikMills> Eickmeyer[m]: no, it is public
[17:16] <RikMills> https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/+git/kdeconnect-kde
[17:17] <RikMills> oh, for historical reasons the repo had -kde appended
[17:17] <RikMills> I guess you are not trying that one?
[17:17]  * Eickmeyer[m] uploaded an image: (37KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/LKrHziGzbVZdACQodBPGzFdi/image.png >
[17:17] <Eickmeyer[m]> RikMills:
[17:18] <RikMills> wtf
[17:18] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeahhhhh
[17:24] <RikMills> Eickmeyer[m]: https://i.imgur.com/JvxBz5e.png
[17:24] <RikMills> All public there
[17:24] <RikMills> very odd
[17:25] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yep. Time to talk to #launchpad.
[17:31] <Eickmeyer[m]> https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/+git/kdeconnect-kde. I'm part of the ~kubuntu-ninjas team which should have access to every single git repo there, but seem to be unable to access that one specific repo. I've worked with RikMills to resolve but he seems to be unable.
[17:32]  * Eickmeyer[m] uploaded an image: (37KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/FfftmhYfrXsrpRnBdyzKvOzB/image.png >
[17:32] <Eickmeyer[m]> My result is always this:
[17:32] <RikMills> Eickmeyer[m]: swtich channel ;)
[17:32] <RikMills> *switch
[17:32] <Eickmeyer[m]> Oh crap, wrong chat.
[17:34] <RikMills> maybe if I added you as a direct member of kubuntu packagers it might work, but not the point. it should work now
[17:35] <jbicha> RikMills: I can't access that page either. Do you have it set to Private or something?
[17:36] <RikMills> jbicha: nope. it is set to public as all our other repos under the same team are
[17:36] <RikMills> https://i.imgur.com/JvxBz5e.png
[17:38] <Eickmeyer[m]> jbicha: It's just that one repo that seems to be problematic.
[17:38] <arraybolt3[m]> Can you set it to Private and then back to Public?
[17:39] <RikMills> arraybolt3[m]: done
[17:39] <Eickmeyer[m]> Didn't work.
[17:41] <Eickmeyer[m]> I mean, it doesn't completely stop me in my tracks, just means I'll have to apply the debdiff later on.
[17:56] <Eickmeyer[m]> jbicha: Did you have a bug to track the nautilus 43 compatibility issue?
[17:58] <jbicha> Eickmeyer[m]: no I haven't filed a bug but I need it fixed in Debian too before I do the Nautilus 43 transition there
[17:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> jbicha: Ok. I have the fix for our package and the upstream pull request. Not sure if that helps Debian as we don't exactly take all of the KDE debian packages.
[18:12] <jbicha> do one of you want to forward it to Debian KDE?
[18:20] <Eickmeyer[m]> I might be able to.


[00:04] <xodiac133> I have to do a project in school and I have questions for a Linux Administrator
[01:08] <patdk-lap> !ask
[01:10] <tomreyn> <ou were 58 minutes late ;)
[01:11] <patdk-lap> oh well, might help someone else
[02:17] <RoyK> !tell
[02:17] <RoyK> hm - ask and don't tell? ;)
[16:54] <mojtaba> Hello, Do you know how can I terminate a command, if the size of the directory is a specific amount?
[16:55] <mojtaba> I am backing up a system on a HDD, and I want to exit rsync when the directory size is e.g. 100G.
[17:08] <mojtaba> no one?
[17:53] <mojtaba> Hello, Do you know how can I terminate a command, if the size of the directory is a specific amount? I am backing up a system on a HDD, and I want to exit rsync when the directory size is e.g. 100G.


[00:12] <moetunes> cb--:  does the soundcard show when you run   aplay -l   ?
[00:29] <cb--> aplay -l gives **** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices ****
[00:29] <cb--> card 0: V8237 [VIA 8237], device 0: VIA 8237 [VIA 8237]
[00:29] <cb-->   Subdevices: 4/4
[00:29] <cb-->   Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
[00:29] <cb-->   Subdevice #1: subdevice #1
[00:29] <cb-->   Subdevice #2: subdevice #2
[00:30] <cb-->   Subdevice #3: subdevice #3
[00:30] <cb--> card 0: V8237 [VIA 8237], device 1: VIA 8237 [VIA 8237]
[00:30] <cb-->   Subdevices: 1/1
[00:30] <cb-->   Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
[00:31] <cb--> VIA 8237 is the card i think
[00:34] <moetunes> seems so - does     aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Front_Center.wav     get you a sound?
[00:40] <knome> !pastebin | cb--, please use pastebin in the future;
[00:41] <cb--> nope, no sound
[00:42] <cb--> my card is also listed when i run lspci -v | less
[00:42] <cb--> reading through the sound troubleshooting page from ubuntu now, maybe something will turn up
[00:43] <moetunes> cb--:  in a terminal run   alsamixer   and turn everything all the way up
[00:44] <cb--> k
[00:45] <cb--> still nothing
[01:01] <moetunes> cb--:  you could try in terminal   cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp    - watch out it is loud - ctrl+c to stop it
[01:04] <cb--> moetunes: got bash: /dev/dsp: Permission denied
[01:05] <cb--> trying as root
[01:05] <moetunes> cb--:  it works here - are you in the audio group? use the command   groups   to check
[01:09] <cb--> moetunes: from groups got      <username> adm dialout cdrom plugdev lpadmin admin sambashare
[01:10] <moetunes> cb--:  you'll have to add yourself to the audio group then afaik
[01:21] <cb--> moetunes: afaik?
[01:26] <moetunes> cb--:  afaik = as far as I know
[01:28] <cb--> added myself to audio, ran   cat/dev/urandom > /dev/dsp         got No such file or directory
[01:28] <cb--> ah yes, acronyms
[01:28] <BlueEagle> cb--: Did you log out and back in so that the permissions could take effect?
[01:29] <cb--> BlueEagle : no, i'll give it a shot
[01:29] <BlueEagle> cb--: Group memberships are cached at login. :)
[01:34] <BlueEagle> cb--: Did it work?
[01:34] <cb--> BlueEagle: i'm a member of the audio group now, not sure what the next step is
[01:35] <cb--> been trying to get the sound to work, as is i can't hear anything
[01:36] <BlueEagle> cb--: Well if you logged out and back in then you should be set tbh.
[01:37] <cb--> BlueEagle: hmm,
[01:37] <moetunes> cb--:  time to check for sound modules   lsmod | grep snd
[01:38] <cb--> ok, got a whole bunch
[01:39] <moetunes> that's good - try the aplay command I gave earlier
[01:39] <moetunes>  aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Front_Center.wav
[01:42] <cb--> moetunes: still nothing
[01:42] <moetunes> does it look like it plays and you get no sound?
[01:43] <cb--> ya, terminal says   Playing WAVE 'usr/share/sounds/alsa/Front_Center.wav
[01:44] <moetunes> try again   cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp    - watch out it is loud - ctrl+c to stop it
[01:45] <cb--> nothing
[01:46] <moetunes> no error this time?
[01:46] <cb--> no, just a blank space, like it was playing. once i hit ctrl+c it went back to normal layout
[01:48] <moetunes> can you paste the return from   lsnod | grep snd   ?
[01:48] <moetunes> !paste
[01:51] <cb--> ya, i'm new to xchat. give me a sec
[01:52] <cb--> so i pasted in pastebin, what now?
[01:53] <cb--> the url i got is http://paste.ubuntu.com/539234/
[01:54] <moetunes> cb--:  there's a bug for your soundcard - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/297744 - try what the last post suggests or if that doesn't work try post #7's fix
[01:59] <cb--> cool. thanks for all the help btw
[02:01] <moetunes> cb--:  is it working now?
[02:01] <cb--> not yet, should i reinstall alsa?
[02:02] <moetunes> I wouldn't - did you try what post number 7 said? - adding the modules
[02:10] <cb--> moetunes: added the line   options snd-via82xx dxs_support=2 to alsa.conf, ran modprobe -r snd-via82xx, got   FATAL module snd_via82xx is in use
[02:13] <moetunes> cb--:  ok my bad - I checked your paste and it lists the module sorry - I don't know what else to suggest except adding to the bug
[02:14] <cb--> hmm, ok. thanks for your willingness
[02:14] <moetunes> np :)
[03:03] <coffeebean> hi
[03:54] <n2diy> Any suggestions for a replacement for xfdesktop?
[03:55] <n2diy> moetunes: are you available?
[03:56] <moetunes> n2diy:  yep I'm here
[03:57] <n2diy> moetunes: hello, I don't think I can run xsnow with xfdesktop on board, so I'm looking into a replacement for it, suggestions?
[03:58] <moetunes> n2diy:  I would just kill it and set the background with something else
[03:59] <moetunes> all it does is the wallpaper and icons afaik
[04:00] <moetunes> from the man page it does the right click menu too
[04:01] <n2diy> moetunes: I don't seem to be able to kill it, killall -v xfdesktop says killed with sig 15, repeat the command, and I get the same response, it appears to be respawning?
[04:01]  * jgould grumbles at his trackpad
[04:04] <moetunes> n2diy:  you might have to ask in #xfce about that - it shouldn't respawn afaik
[04:08] <n2diy> moetunes: ok, I'll ask them, but I won't hold my breath, I was over there two nights ago with another issue, and never got a reply. Thanks for your time mate.
[04:10] <moetunes> n2diy:  check in startup and sessions if xfdesktop is listed
[04:10] <n2diy> moetunes: ok.
[06:52] <krisgb> Hi, may I ask for help on sound troubles in Xubuntu Maverick?
[06:53] <krisgb> I ran the alsa-info script and this is the output I got: http://pastebin.com/Y3teCDMF
[06:55] <moetunes> krisgb:  so there is onboard sound and a soundcard - what's the issue?
[06:55] <moetunes> !intelhda
[06:56] <krisgb> I got no sound playing.
[06:57] <krisgb>  I tried executing aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Front_Left.wav in the terminal and couldn't hear a peep
[06:58] <krisgb> is there anything else I should be looking at?
[06:58] <moetunes> I have no experience on systems running pulseaudio - all I can recommend is running alsamixer in the terminal and turning everything all the way up
[06:59] <krisgb> well, I checked the mixer, and I turned the volume as high as it could go
[07:00] <moetunes> krisgb:  which mixer?
[07:01] <krisgb> xfce4-mixer
[07:01] <krisgb> (or should I be looking at something else?)
[07:02] <moetunes> I would try   alsamixer   in the terminal
[07:02] <krisgb> Master and PCM are turned way up; I don't see other controls
[07:02] <krisgb> same thing's showing up on alsamixer
[07:02] <moetunes> go through the page ubottu mentioned before then
[07:03] <krisgb> so... worst case, I may have to recompile? :(
[07:03] <moetunes> no
[07:04] <krisgb> (sorry, I'm not that good with computers)
[07:04] <moetunes> check this useful page out -  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HdaIntelSoundHowto
[07:04] <krisgb> it's open now; any section of that long page I should be looking at first?
[07:06] <krisgb> (I'm not sure how to edit alsa-base.conf ; what should I be putting after "options snd-hda-intel model=" ?)
[07:06] <krisgb> (I've previously tried "auto", didn't work)
[07:08] <krisgb> (yes, I restarted after fiddling with alsa-base.conf)
[07:08] <krisgb> (it didn't work, I removed the line, restarted again, and now I'm here asking the xubuntu channel...)
[07:12] <moetunes> I guess it is pulseaudio getting in the way again - I would uninstall it if it were my system - but I can't say for sure'
[07:13] <krisgb> in case it's still screwed up after uninstalling pulseaudio, I can just apt-get it again, yes?
[07:13] <moetunes> yep
[07:14] <moetunes> go through the steps you've just done first tho
[07:14] <krisgb> any other suggestions you can think of?
[07:15] <moetunes> only have one sound card 'till things start working
[07:15] <krisgb> and speaking of which, should I just leave alsa-base.conf alone now?
[07:15] <krisgb> it's a laptop... :(
[07:15] <TheSheep> krisgb: in the mixer, at the top, you have a deropdown for different devices
[07:16] <TheSheep> krisgb: make sure you unmuted all of them
[07:16] <krisgb> TheSheep: they aren't muted, and they're all turned up
[07:17] <krisgb> and "HDA Intel" is selected, which also showed up in the output of the alsa-info script
[07:17] <TheSheep> krisgb: other devices too?
[07:17] <krisgb> The "HDA NVidia" is there as well (and also showed up in the alsa-info script output).
[07:18] <TheSheep> make sure all of them are unmuted, including pulseaudio
[07:19] <krisgb> how do I check if pulseaudio is unmuted? when I typed pulseaudio into the terminal, I got a "Daemon already running" error.
[07:20] <TheSheep> krisgb: you don't have pulseaudio device in that dropdown in mixer?
[07:20] <krisgb> aha... yes, I found it, silly me.
[07:20] <krisgb> it's turned up to maximum as well
[07:21] <TheSheep> ok
[07:21] <krisgb> (pardon me, as I said, I am rather inexperienced with this)
[07:22] <TheSheep> open a terminal and try this (it should make noise, ctrl+c to end it): cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp
[07:23] <krisgb> uh... computer's not allowing me. sudo?
[07:23] <TheSheep> yes
[07:24] <moetunes> not in the audio group then?
[07:24] <Sysi> install pavucontrol and select sound card you want to use
[07:24] <krisgb> moetunes: I think I saw something about the "audio group" while searching, but couldn't understand it... :(
[07:25] <moetunes> krisgb:  use the   groups   command to find out - and Sysi 's comment is a good one
[07:25] <krisgb> Sysi: I've asked Synaptic to get it already
[07:26] <krisgb> moetunes: "adm dialout cdrom plugdev lpadmin admin sambashare" ... so, no "audio".
[07:26] <moetunes> might be it then
[07:27] <TheSheep> krisgb: system->users and groups
[07:27] <TheSheep> and add yourself
[07:27] <moetunes> that should be "might" - I dunno how things go with pulseaudio
[07:27] <Sysi> with pure alsa i had problems with two soundcards, pulseaudio is made for fixing that ind of problems
[07:28] <moetunes> Sysi:  heh - the opposite here..
[07:29] <krisgb> Okay, turns out "use audio devices" was unchecked under "User Privileges"... I've checked it now and okayed the changes.
[07:29] <krisgb> should I restart now, or something else?
[07:30] <TheSheep> relogin
[07:30] <krisgb> (or maybe after Synaptic's done with pavucontrol, my connection is slow)
[07:30] <moetunes> when you change groups you have to logout/login for it to take affect
[07:33] <moetunes> that's two ppl today that haven't been in the audio group - what's going on here
[07:34] <krisgb> don't know. wouldn't have known about this group thing if it weren't for you guys...
[07:34] <Sysi> moetunes: (the soundcard i want to use don't like pulse, rmmod for driver of the other one)
[07:34] <krisgb> anyway... Sysi: how do I access pavucontrol when it's installed?
[07:34] <Sysi> menu
[07:35] <krisgb> okay it's done. I'll restart now. thanks for the help, and I'll report back.
[07:38] <moetunes> every disro I've tried with pulseaudio as a default never gives me sound - every distro I've tried that doesn't have pulseaudio as a default I get sound - the choice seems simple to me
[07:39] <moetunes> pulseaudio was just born bad
[07:43] <lighta> hi, how can I add a program to be launch with alt+f2 ?
[07:43] <krisgb> yep, the groups thing did the trick. thanks a lot!
[07:46] <moetunes> woot!
[07:47] <moetunes> lighta:  you type stuff into alt+F2 - what are you trying to do?
[07:47] <krisgb> another question, if you don't mind... does anybody here have experience with using vmware on Xubuntu?
[07:48] <moetunes> I prefer vbox myself, I've never tried vmware
[07:49] <lighta> I used vmare to try xubuntu, but I think you want the opposite
[07:50] <Sysi> i think it should work
[07:50] <krisgb> see, I want to run Windows 7 just for Microsoft Office... apparently, you can set things up so that if the Windows gets borked, you can reset the system with minimal fuss
[07:50] <Sysi> for what do you need M$ office?
[07:50] <lighta> moetunes, well I want a proper installation. I tryed to put my prog in usr/lib but no change. wanted to appear in menu and etc
[07:50] <krisgb> I get sent a  lot of docx stuff
[07:51] <moetunes> libreoffice works fine
[07:51] <krisgb> and presentations don't work in OpenOffice
[07:51] <krisgb> so my idea is just to virtualize the windows
[07:51] <krisgb> so I don't worry about a thing if it gets nuked by a virus
[07:52] <krisgb> I was wondering if anybody has tried Xubuntu as a host OS
[07:52] <Sysi> it shouldn't be different for any *buntu
[07:53] <moetunes> lighta:  you need to put apps it in what the folders that are listed in $PATH - menu entries are .desktop files
[07:53] <TheSheep> lighta: the menu is built from files in /user/share/applications and ~/.local/share/applications
[07:54] <krisgb> Sysi: so in theory, it ought to work?
[07:54] <TheSheep> krisgb: it ought to work in practice too
[07:58] <moetunes> I shouldn't multi task... - I just read what i typed earlier
[07:58] <moetunes> english is my first language
[08:00] <moetunes> lighta:  check ~/.bash_profile to see if it includes ~/bin and put the file in there so it will show at the cli
[08:01] <lighta> moetunes, no files found
[08:02] <lighta> I didn't quite understand the path thing
[08:02] <lighta> I found the . destock file in .usr/share/applications ok
[08:02] <moetunes> lighta:  in a terminal type   $PATH
[08:03] <moetunes> it shows the dirs that terminal searches for executables
[08:04] <lighta> sure ? cause it point me on my desktop
[08:04] <lighta> so if I understand well I must put my app on desktop
[08:04] <lighta> then create an . desktop file and put in in /usr/share/app ?
[08:05] <moetunes> lighta:  not necessarily
[08:05] <moetunes> what does $PATH in terminal return?
[08:05] <lighta> lighta@lighta-laptop:~/Bureau$ $path
[08:05] <lighta> lighta@lighta-laptop:~/Bureau$
[08:06] <lighta> oops forget ase sensitive
[08:06] <moetunes> lighta:  in linux case is important - $PATH is diff to $path
[08:06] <lighta> ye that what I just remenber xd
[08:06] <moetunes> heh :)
[08:06] <lighta> lighta@lighta-laptop:~/Bureau$ $PATH
[08:06] <lighta> bash: /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games: Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type
[08:07] <lighta> ok this sound better I must copy my appli there then ?
[08:07] <lighta> in one of this folder ?
[08:08] <moetunes> lighta:  make a dir called   bin   in your home folder and you can add apps there and they will be added to $PATH  - if things haven't changed - does ~/,bash_profile mention ~/bin?
[08:10] <lighta> mention usr/bin not ~/bin
[08:11] <moetunes> I would add   # set PATH so it includes user's private bin if it exists
[08:11] <moetunes> if [ -d ~/bin ] ; then
[08:11] <moetunes>     PATH=~/bin:"${PATH}"
[08:11] <moetunes> fi
[08:12] <moetunes> dunno why that would be excluded in recent distros
[08:12] <lighta> dunno either, whereshould I do this modify ?
[08:17] <moetunes> lighta:  do you know that ~ means your home folder? - there's no reason for ~/,bash_profile to mention /usr/bin
[08:17] <lighta> well ~ isn't my home directory ?
[08:19] <moetunes> do    ls-a ~    and see if .bash_profile turns upp
[08:20] <lighta> command not found
[08:20] <lighta> lighta@lighta-laptop:~/Bureau$ ls-a ~
[08:20] <lighta> ls-a : commande introuvable
[08:21] <Sysi> ls -a
[08:21] <moetunes> sorry do ls -a ~   I missed a space
[08:21] <lighta> no reference to profile
[08:21] <lighta> lighta@lighta-laptop:~/Bureau$ ls-a ~
[08:21] <lighta> ls-a : commande introuvable
[08:21] <lighta> oh shit
[08:22] <lighta> lighta@lighta-laptop:~/Bureau$ sudo ls -a ~ | grep .bash
[08:22] <lighta> .bash_history
[08:22] <lighta> .bash_logout
[08:22] <lighta> .bashrc
[08:23] <moetunes> no .bash_profile at all - is this a default install lighta ? - Sysi can you confirm this?
[08:24] <Sysi> on fedora atm
[08:24] <lighta> from xubuntu 9.04 ye, updated in a while to 10.xx
[08:24] <moetunes> k - Archlinux here atm
[08:25] <lighta> :(
[08:27] <moetunes> lighta:  back to the orig prob I guess - for the menu entry you have to make a file in /usr/share/applications - but the executable must be in the dirs recognised by $PATH
[08:28] <moetunes> afaik
[08:29] <lighta> ok, I did this point missing is how to do a desktop file
[08:29] <lighta> to put it in /usr/share/app
[08:31] <lighta> hmm q° when you said the executable must be in a dir recognize by $PATH could it be an under directory ? (e.g PATH mention /usr/bin my exe is in /usr/bin/my/*.exe)
[08:32] <moetunes> lighta:  I would copy one to my home dir an edit it to point to my app the copy it with sudo back to /us/share/applications
[08:34] <lighta> erf low batterie
[08:35] <moetunes> heh
[08:35] <lighta> but not clear for me sry. you want I create a link on /usr/share/app and the original folder on ~ ?
[08:36] <lighta> I had just the opposite from the begining
[08:36] <moetunes> lighta:  nope
[08:36] <lighta> ah ok
[08:37] <moetunes> copy a file from /usr/share/app to use as a tmplate - change it so it opens your file and add it back to /usr/share/apps
[08:38] <moetunes> call it what you want to show in the menu
[08:41] <lighta> ok I see =)
[08:48] <lighta> working =)
[08:48] <lighta> thx a lot
[08:51] <moetunes> woot!
[08:57] <lighta> =) but not alt+f2 yet
[08:58] <lighta> can you tell me where I should look before battery end on me ?
[09:08] <moetunes> might helpif you tell about the app - what sort of file it is and where it is etc
[09:09] <moetunes> and paste the .desktop file you made for it
[09:09] <moetunes> !paste
[09:13] <lighta> http://pastebin.com/DSFy5vyQ
[09:17] <moetunes> that looks fine but i hve heard about issues with teamspeak - tried it from a terminal  so you can get error msgs?
[09:27] <lighta> well it's null return error
[09:27] <lighta> no file from this type
[09:28] <lighta> from menu it's working fine
[09:28] <lighta> from amt+f2 TS3 no
[09:28] <lighta> think it missing a pointer somewhere
[09:37] <lighta> well thx anyway moetunes i'm gonnasleep
[10:32] <nicofs> I need help. I have several managers fighting over my power management. currently my display dims down instandtly and shuts down after a minute. In the settings it sais it shouldn't. please help...
[10:41] <TheSheep> nicofs: just kill one of them
[10:41] <TheSheep> nicofs: and disable it in autostarted applications
[10:41] <nicofs> easily said. which one?
[10:42] <TheSheep> nicofs: pick one
[10:42] <nicofs> TheSheep: from where?
[10:43] <nicofs> only xfce power manager is in autostart
[15:06] <ubuXubu> good morning Xubuntu Technicians, Consultants, Coders,Engineers and Casual Observers...,,
[15:07] <TheSheep> and sheep
[15:08] <charlie-tca> and just users
[15:09] <charlie-tca> Good morning, ubuXubu
[17:03] <ubuXubu> is everthing ok here
[17:06] <charlie-tca> yes
[17:06] <charlie-tca> ubuXubu, you just seemed to disappear for a while?
[17:07] <ubuXubu> this new wireless service just dropped me off awhile ago?
[17:07] <ubuXubu> yet the hard wire part never fails
[17:07] <ubuXubu> drives me insane
[17:08] <ubuXubu> i just dropped verizon DSL due to that
[17:08] <ubuXubu> maybe its this server doinf it? i dunno...
[17:09] <ubuXubu> the latest message was...diconnected (no such device or address)
[17:10] <charlie-tca> [08:21] * ubuXubu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[17:10] <charlie-tca> now it is [10:10]
[17:10] <ubuXubu> oh that one
[17:10] <ubuXubu> thats was when i came back in as as balsaq becasue my other wasa ghost or something
[17:11] <ubuXubu> i had to use balsaq to get back cos ubuXubu was still here somehow
[17:11] <ubuXubu> then ubuXubu dropped off on his own
[17:11] <Sysi> ping timeout is not instant
[17:11] <Sysi> for timeout
[17:11] <ubuXubu> so i switched back to my new preferred name
[17:12] <ubuXubu> see when i came back in as balsaq...ubuXubu was just sitiin there even though i wasnt on a computer as him
[17:15] <charlie-tca> um, actually, it was already disconnected. balsaq login was [09:52]
[17:22] <ubuXubu> ahhhhhhhh
[17:22] <ubuXubu> i dunno
[17:22] <ubuXubu> alli know is every so many hours poof
[17:23] <charlie-tca> Mine resets at about 22 hours, I think
[17:23] <ubuXubu> my wireless politely drops me off
[17:23] <charlie-tca> Might be more or less, but it does it on regular basis.
[17:23] <ubuXubu> they are installing a new one sunday already
[17:23] <charlie-tca> sometimes it logs back in, and sometimes it leaves me hanging
[17:26] <ubuXubu> one thing i like about this new one...i dont have to run to the basement and reboot the router to log back on, like the one i replaced.
[17:40] <charlie-tca> heh, that would be a plus
[17:40] <charlie-tca> but... what about the exercise it provided?
[18:49] <ubuXubu> yes i will have to start jogging again
[19:59] <share> ei
[19:59] <share> my xubuntu doesnt shut down
[19:59] <share> i click on shutdown then it keeps showing xubuntu logo
[20:01] <discharge> you can type in terminal "sudo shutdown -h 0" for shutdown
[20:01] <discharge> or killall xfce4-panel; xfce4-panel&
[20:02] <discharge> to restart the panel along with the menu
[20:02] <share> discharge: i just want to shutdown xubuntu
[20:03] <share> but it doesnt
[20:03] <share> discharge: i had to press shutdown button
[20:03] <discharge> well, if the system was frozen, u could most times use <ctrl><alt>F1
[20:03] <share> discharge: i have tried 'sudo shutdown' only before but didnt work
[20:04] <discharge> then issue the shutdown command i mentioned above
[20:04] <share> discharge: i dont know it is frozen
[20:04] <share> it just didnt shutdown
[20:04] <share> very strange
[20:04] <discharge> sudo shutdown -h 0
[20:04] <share> maybe it's X
[20:04] <share> yes i'll try later
[20:04] <Sysi> press powerbutton for some time
[20:04] <discharge> u have to specify "halt" and 0 as time
[20:04] <share> Sysi: :P thats what i did
[20:04] <share> discharge: ok
[20:05] <Sysi> if it works next time, it works
[20:05] <share> discharge:
[20:05] <share> i dunno if i could ctrdl alt f\
[20:05] <share> f1
[20:05] <share> with xubuntu logo showing up
[20:05] <Sysi> 'poweroff' should be alias for that command btw
[20:06] <share> hm
[20:06] <share> i think i have tried poweroff before
[21:49] <nicklas_> hey, how do you get latest stable nvidia / ati driver without installing manually, is the backports or are there any repos?
[21:54] <fructose> Hi. I just installed the Xubuntu desktop and am wondering if there's anything extra I can do to improve performance on this sluggish 256MB machine
[21:55] <charlie-tca> use midori instead of firefox
[22:03] <mneumonic> Does anyone here run xubuntu installed on a USB drive?
[22:03] <mneumonic> i'm wondering how bad it will kill the drive
[22:30] <Sysi> now this is interesting / cool / nice
[22:30] <Sysi> kwin with xfce
[22:31] <Sysi> kwin don't like xfce session managment, otherly even betetr than KDE
[23:07] <n2diy> moetunes: I installed kde base on my test box, and xsnow won't play with that either!?
[23:08] <Sysi> same hw and xorg
[23:22] <n2diy> Sysi: nah, all the machines here are mutts off the street.
[23:23] <n2diy> Sysi: I ran killall xfdesktop on my backup box, and xsnow is now playing on that one! So, some success.
[23:50] <moetunes> n2diy:  kde would do the same thing as xfce in setting the background afaik - good to see you had some success
[23:51] <n2diy> moetunes: yes, then I'll try gnome on the test box, and see if that works.
[23:51] <moetunes> n2diy:  gnome will be the sane as kde and xfce
[23:51] <n2diy> moetunes: they all run xfdesktop?
[23:52] <moetunes> n2diy:  no they all control the root desktop the same way
[23:52] <moetunes> which doesn't let xsnow run
[23:53] <n2diy> moetunes: hmmm, then more study is needed, maybe it is time to try BSD? :)
[23:54] <moetunes> n2diy:  for xsnow I would try using just a window manager not a desktop environment like xfce or kde or gnome
[23:59] <Cael> i just installed via an monitor for display xubuntu 10.04 on my spare pc.. .but after boot using Svideo out its acting like its an PAL signal (no color and screen flipping) but i last left it @ 800x600 @60hz


[17:50] <pleia2> knome: btw http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2013/06/20/ubuntu-donations-and-community-funding/
[17:50] <pleia2> flavors budget!
[17:51] <elfy> pleia2: where is this xubuntu calendar thingy ?
[17:51] <elfy> and I saw that donation stuff a short while ago - looks good
[17:52] <pleia2> elfy<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:52] <pleia2> er<EMAIL_ADDRESS>:)
[17:52]  * pleia2 removes her time zone
[17:52] <elfy> lol
[17:53] <elfy> pleia2: who can add things to it?
[17:53] <pleia2> looks like me and knome
[17:53] <elfy> and do people look at it I wonder - except me - I know I didn't :p
[17:53] <pleia2> I can add you as an editor too if you want
[17:54] <elfy> well if we use it then it's useful :)
[17:54] <pleia2> what's your google account?
[17:54] <elfy> elfyesq
[17:55] <pleia2> there you go
[17:55] <elfy> thanks
[17:55] <Unit193> elfy: I do.
[19:41] <knome> pleia2, ahem, ok.
[19:46] <Unit193> So the answer for the random donations question in #xubuntu could technically have a different answer.
[19:47] <pleia2> there's no way to earmark it for a specific flavor
[19:47] <pleia2> so they can give money to canonical in the flavor bucket if they want, but it's not guaranteed to get to us
[19:47] <Unit193> Heh, so Xfce is still the answer.
[19:48] <pleia2> if they want to specifically to go to help us, probably
[19:48] <pleia2> but we should talk about it, whether we do want to request anything


[12:56] <Tinkery> I'd come back later. I've pain in my back, so much I can't barely sit or walk.
[17:26] <Unit193> Ouch, hope you get that taken care of.
[18:51] <Tinkery> Yeah I've a personal trainer who helpes me
[22:47] <JohnT> Radio Check
[22:48] <bluesabre> Coming in loud and clear.
[22:48] <JohnT> (y)


[17:16] <rick_h> skay:  so I'd grep the current-controller from .local/share/juju/controllers and then have to match that with models.yaml "current-model"
[17:17] <rick_h> skay:  at least if you wanted to do it sans juju cli, that's the on disk cache


[07:11] <juliux> hi all
[08:28] <JanC> hi juliux :)
[08:29] <juliux> hey JanC
[08:30] <juliux> JanC, http://www.ubuntuusers.de/paste/13940/ any idea why i dont get an ip address?
[08:33] <JanC> this channel isn't exactly the right place to ask support questions, but it looks like your DHCP doesn't work?
[08:34] <juliux> JanC, dhcp is working it is only the thinkpad with the atheros card which is not working
[08:35] <JanC> firewall?
[08:40] <JanC> hm, I'm not sure what """46 Aug 18 17:56:34 ubuntu dhclient: wifi0: unknown hardware address type 801""" means...
[08:43] <juliux> JanC, i am asking here because prism cards and intel cards are working fine, only atheros is not working
[08:44] <JanC> on the same laptop?
[08:44] <JanC> probably not (as intel has no "cards")
[08:44] <juliux> intel ipw2200 on a hp notebook. prism ist as usb-stick and ipw 3945 in a desktop pc
[08:45] <juliux> and on the accesspoint is an other atheros card in master mode working
[08:45] <JanC> did you try the prism usb stick on that thinkpad ?
[08:45] <juliux> yes, its working without any problems
[08:45] <JanC> so, probably no firewall problem or similar  :)
[08:46] <juliux> jap
[08:46] <JanC> maybe NM doesn't work with atheros...
[08:46] <juliux> hmm now the atheros card is working but not with my selfbuild accesspoint
[08:46] <juliux> so perhaps it is a problem with two atheros cards:(
[08:47] <JanC> might be incompatible config too
[08:47] <juliux> could be
[08:47] <juliux> but on this laptop has to work everything it is the notebook for my girlfriend
[09:02] <JanC> :)
[09:03] <JanC> can you configure wireless manually?
[09:03] <JanC> or does it work without encryption?
[09:33] <juliux> without encryption, wep and wpa are not working
[10:04] <verwilst> 2.6.22-9-xen is greaaaat!
[10:05] <verwilst> i have a domU centos5 and gutsy running on it :)
[10:10] <JanC> juliux: of course without encryption WEP & WPA don't work, but if it works without encryption on the AP, that might give an indication of where the problem is  :)