[14:30] <ivi_> hi?
[14:33] <cub> hi!
[14:33] <ivi_> im new in ubuntu studio
[14:33] <ivi_> I have a little question
[14:33] <smartboyhw> ivi_, hello
[14:33] <cub> We all were at some point.
[14:33] <ivi_> I used VST's on windows
[14:34] <smartboyhw> VST?
[14:34] <cub> audio plugins
[14:34] <ivi_> I can use it in linux?
[14:34] <ivi_> yes
[14:34] <cub> Yes, but it requires some fiddling.
[14:35] <cub> what DAW are you using?
[14:35] <ivi_> I have too a Midi controller, a keyboard, and I use it with FL Studio in my desktop PC
[14:35] <ivi_> on linux, ardour
[14:35] <ivi_> on windows Reaper
[14:36] <ivi_> or Ableton, because my amp includes a license of ableton live 8
[14:36] <cub> you could keep running Reaper through Wine, some do. But Ardour is really nice.
[14:37] <ivi_> on my laptop
[14:37] <ivi_> I hate windows
[14:37] <ivi_> I like learn things about linux
[14:37] <cub> http://manual.ardour.org/working-with-plugins/windows-vst-support/
[14:37] <cub> "It requires a special build of Ardour that is fundamentally very different from normal builds."
[14:37] <ivi_> it will support plugins likes amplitube?
[14:38] <cub> "The dependence on Wine makes it almost impossible for the Ardour project to support this feature. " so it not really recommended.
[14:39] <ivi_> mmm
[14:39] <cub> Are there certain VST you want to use? Have you looked around in Ardour to see what's available through LADSPA and/or LV2?
[14:39] <ivi_> I will use guitar amp simulator
[14:39] <cub> you might find similar plugins there.
[14:40] <cub> You could take a look at Guitarix
[14:41] <ivi_> I dont understand JACK xDD
[14:41] <ivi_> mmm
[14:41] <cub> Ah. :) It's quite fundamental to get audio working properly for recording.
[14:42] <ivi_> mmm
[14:42] <ivi_> in linux, I can play without latency?
[14:42] <cub> yes
[14:42] <cub> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/ProAudioIntro
[14:42] <ivi_> on windows I use ASIO4All
[14:43] <cub> which sound card do you have?
[14:43] <ivi_> the card of my laptop
[14:43] <ivi_> xD
[14:43] <ivi_> but
[14:43] <cub> ok
[14:43] <ivi_> I have a Behringer guitar link
[14:44] <ivi_> http://www.musicstore.de/es_ES/ESP/Ordenadores/Ordenadores/Behringer-UCG-102-GUITAR-LINK-USB-Audio-Interface/art-PCM0006493-000
[14:45] <cub> The Help wiki have some good documentation that will get you up and running on JACK
[14:45] <ivi_> the ardour wiki, the ubuntustudio wiki or the jack wiki?
[14:45] <cub> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio :)
[14:46] <cub> which also contains the pro audio intro link I just posted
[14:46] <ivi_> ah ok
[14:46] <ivi_> thanks!:D
[14:47] <cub> It will require some reading and testing but once you get it you'll be happy.
[14:47] <cub> Also check http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1457334 which is about the Behringer guitar link
[14:47] <ivi_> is not verry difficult
[14:48] <ivi_> I will use Guitar Pro too
[14:48] <ivi_> but
[14:48] <ivi_> the version I ude (5.2)
[14:48] <ivi_> is only for windows
[14:48] <ivi_> I use wine, true?
[14:49] <cub> yes
[14:49] <ivi_> on wine
[14:49] <cub> or find a similar native linux application
[14:49] <ivi_> tuxguitar
[14:49] <ivi_> but
[14:49] <ivi_> i don't like the sounds
[14:50] <ivi_> Can I change it?
[14:50] <ivi_> the DirectX sounds midi aren't bad
[14:50] <cub> Oh, I have no experience with that
[15:10] <ivi_> hi again
[15:10] <ivi_> sorry for disconnect
[15:10] <ivi_> the last question
[15:10] <ivi_> alternatives to FlStudio?


[09:34] <andrew_> hi
[09:34] <thelinuxer> hi andrew_
[09:34] <andrew_> finally found someone to chat with about ubuntu
[09:35] <thelinuxer> andrew_: :)
[09:36] <thelinuxer> so ... tell me about ur problem .. and I will try to fix it isA
[09:36] <andrew_> simple problem i think
[09:36] <andrew_> i want to install photoshop in ubuntu
[09:36] <thelinuxer> simple indeed :D
[09:37] <andrew_> :D
[09:37] <thelinuxer> tayeb please install something called playonlinux from the software center
[09:38] <thelinuxer> this thing makes it really easy to install windows based software on linux
[09:38] <andrew_> hwa momken ysh3'alo asl fe nas 2aloly eno le  el games
[09:38] <thelinuxer> la2 mesh lel games bas
[09:38] <andrew_> ana grabt wine bas useless
[09:38] <thelinuxer> wine needs tweeking
[09:39] <thelinuxer> and what works on a certain version won't work on another
[09:39] <thelinuxer> that's y a project like playonlinux exists
[09:39] <andrew_> koes ana hastab el "playonlinux" now
[09:39] <thelinuxer> to apply the tweaks and choose the correct wine version
[09:39] <thelinuxer> ok ping me when u come back
[09:39] <andrew_> momken so2al tany r5m shwaya
[09:39] <andrew_> :)
[09:39] <thelinuxer> by ping me, i mean mention me in your message
[09:39] <thelinuxer> shoot ...
[09:40] <andrew_> i want to learn the terminal commands
[09:40] <andrew_> can't find any useful videos or books
[09:40] <andrew_> i have eBook but its about 1000 page
[09:41] <andrew_> i want something fast ;)
[09:42] <thelinuxer> ok fast means u'll learn the basics
[09:42] <thelinuxer> then u'll take it from there
[09:42] <thelinuxer> use the shell every day and u'll gain experience
[09:42] <thelinuxer> i studied books on shell scripting but i forgot most of it because i don't use these commands
[09:43] <thelinuxer> check this out http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Bash-Prog-Intro-HOWTO.html
[09:43] <andrew_> i just need the basics like how to make files and how to change the permision and so on
[09:43] <thelinuxer> you don't have to study it all
[09:43] <thelinuxer> oh sorry
[09:43] <thelinuxer> i thought u wanted to do shell scripting
[09:44] <andrew_> no problem i am very weak at english :(
[09:44] <thelinuxer> no, it was me who got u wrong
[09:44] <thelinuxer> check this out
[09:45] <thelinuxer> http://www.tuxfiles.org/linuxhelp/cli.html
[09:45] <andrew_> thanks
[09:45] <thelinuxer> yw
[09:45] <thelinuxer> ping me after u install playonlinux
[09:46] <andrew_> suree
[09:47] <andrew_> why you don't have your own blog or website
[09:48] <andrew_> you know fan page is just not enouph
[09:48] <thelinuxer> our website is currently under development
[09:49] <andrew_> i can help if you want i am php developer
[09:52] <thelinuxer> if u want to help then join the team
[09:52] <thelinuxer> subscribe to the mailing list
[09:52] <thelinuxer> and introduce urself
[09:53] <thelinuxer> check this join
[09:53] <thelinuxer> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam/Become%20A%20Member
[09:55] <andrew_> i will now
[09:55] <thelinuxer> kool
[09:56] <thelinuxer> don't forget to check the team structure at the end of the page
[09:57] <andrew_> ok
[11:07] <thelinuxer> hey elacheche_anis welcome back :)
[11:07] <elacheche_anis> hey thelinuxer :D
[11:08] <elacheche_anis> what's up?
[11:08] <thelinuxer> el7amdulelal everything is fine ... how was eid at ur side ?
[11:13] <elacheche_anis> It's ok :D just very tired because of the UGJ :D
[11:13] <thelinuxer> how was it ?
[11:14] <elacheche_anis> For me it was awesome :D I'm in the UGj right now :D there is a packaging session :D
[11:46] <thelinuxer> elacheche_anis: sorry i was away
[11:46] <thelinuxer> that's cool dude
[11:46] <thelinuxer> i packaged my first deb last friday
[11:46] <thelinuxer> yala i will leave u to the session now
[11:46] <thelinuxer> salam
[11:46] <elacheche_anis> never mind ;) yeh it's coooool :D
[11:48] <elacheche_anis> ok, :D see you later :)
[12:33] <EgyParadox> mohammedalieng
[12:33] <EgyParadox> :D
[12:36] <thelinuxer> EgyParadox: 7ala2lak we meshy :D
[12:36] <EgyParadox> 3ady
[12:36] <elacheche_anis> loooooooool
[12:36] <ashams> EgyParadox: :P
[12:36] <EgyParadox> met3awed 3ala keda
[12:36] <EgyParadox> :D
[12:36] <elacheche_anis> what's up guys :)
[12:36] <ashams> elacheche_anis: gr8
[12:37] <elacheche_anis> :D
[12:37] <thelinuxer> :D
[12:37] <EgyParadox> ento delwa2ti shaghaleen 3ala eh?
[12:38]  * ashams is watching Shakira: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRpeEdMmmQ0
[12:38] <thelinuxer> ashams: dude this is not appropriate in a room full of geeks
[12:38] <ashams> thelinuxer: Shakira is appropriate anywhere
[12:39] <ashams> thelinuxer: :P
[12:39] <thelinuxer> ashams: :)
[12:40] <ashams> elacheche_anis: Are u involved in development?
[12:40] <ashams> Seems that elacheche_anis is still watching the vid :)
[12:41] <thelinuxer> he's actually busy in the UGJ
[12:41] <ashams> You still gathering?
[12:42] <ashams> is he from alex?
[12:42] <thelinuxer> elacheche_anis is from Tunis
[12:42] <EgyParadox> no hes from ubuntu-tn
[12:43] <ashams> elacheche_anis: OH! HI
[12:43] <ashams> EgyParadox: thnx
[12:43] <ashams> thelinuxer: thnx
[12:45] <ashams> thelinuxer: what you think about changing the Owner? You know I don't like 1 line erplies :P
[12:45] <ashams> replies*
[12:45] <thelinuxer> actually this topic is a little bit sensitive
[12:46] <thelinuxer> i am having mixed feelings about it
[12:46] <thelinuxer> i was hoping that people would reply to this but no one actually did
[12:47] <ashams> Definitely, I hesitated to send it for ~4 months now
[12:47] <thelinuxer> i guess we can check/ask what the owner can do
[12:47] <thelinuxer> and what it represents
[12:47] <thelinuxer> and then decide to change it
[12:47] <thelinuxer> or not
[12:47] <EgyParadox> what owner?
[12:47] <elacheche_anis> back, sorry for the late XD
[12:47] <ashams> but openness should be the best choice
[12:48] <thelinuxer> elacheche_anis: hi :) np
[12:48] <elacheche_anis> ashams, I don't like shakira videos :p XD
[12:48] <thelinuxer> openness ? don't know how is that relevant ?
[12:49] <elacheche_anis> We finish the packaging session, and we have a pause right know EgyParadox
[12:49] <EgyParadox> :D
[12:49] <ashams> thelinuxer: I think I should open a question @ ubuntu-community project, to clear everybody's side
[12:50] <elacheche_anis> thelinuxer, I'm feom M'saken not Tunis :p ;) :D (Tunis is the capital)
[12:50] <thelinuxer> elacheche_anis: sorry for the confusion
[12:50] <EgyParadox> masaken elashraf?
[12:50] <EgyParadox> :D
[12:50] <thelinuxer> ashams: please do that
[12:59] <elacheche_anis> yes EgyParadox مساكن اﻷشراف How do you know this information??
[12:59] <EgyParadox> :D
[12:59] <elacheche_anis> :D
[13:02] <ashams> thelinuxer: I wished to receive open replies from other team members too
[13:03] <thelinuxer> ashams: try pinging them again on the mailing list
[13:03] <thelinuxer> and pointing out how this is important
[13:03] <thelinuxer> but we need to know for sure that it is important :)
[13:04] <ashams> thelinuxer: I'll prepare a good reply, I hope some1 reply this time
[13:05] <ashams> elacheche_anis: Do you like Michel Jackson?
[13:06] <ashams> Michael*
[13:07] <thelinuxer> ashams: sorry got disconnected
[13:07] <ashams> thelinuxer: Vodafone too? :P
[13:08] <thelinuxer> nope, just plain old bad IT guys :D
[13:08] <elacheche_anis> yes ashams I like MJ
[13:09]  * elacheche_anis BRB
[13:15]  * ashams brb too
[13:55]  * ashams is back
[13:55] <elacheche_anis> welcome back ashams
[13:56] <ashams> elacheche_anis: You know, maybe one day I'll be visiting Tunisia, right to the spot when Mohammed El Bo #ezeizi burned himself
[13:57] <ashams> where*
[13:57] <ashams> elacheche_anis: he was the spark of all of this
[13:57] <elacheche_anis> Welcome at any time :)
[13:57] <ashams> :D
[14:24] <ashams> Menopia: Hi
[14:25] <Menopia> ashams, Hiiiiiiiiii
[14:25] <Menopia> :D
[14:25] <ashams> I need your opinion on this: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-eg/2011-September/003791.html
[14:26] <Menopia> k thwany
[14:26] <ashams> Menopia: Thanks :D
[14:27] <Menopia> ah mowafka :D
[14:27] <Menopia> el mafrod yeb2a one admin
[14:27] <Menopia> thelinuxer, bs :D
[14:28] <thelinuxer> Menopia: thanks but i don't think this is true
[14:29] <Menopia> thelinuxer, leh?
[14:29] <thelinuxer> isA keda 7a3mel feeko zay mobarak :D
[14:29] <thelinuxer> 30 years ahead 3arfeen men el admin :D
[14:29] <Menopia> looool :D
[14:29] <thelinuxer> i really think a committee is the way to go
[14:30] <thelinuxer> and have periodic elections
[14:30] <Menopia> bs 3ady momken yeb2a fe admins tanyen ba3d kda
[14:30] <thelinuxer> elacheche_anis: there is a committee for ubuntu-tn, right ?
[14:30] <thelinuxer> Menopia: momken tab2an
[14:30] <thelinuxer> tab3an*
[14:31] <Menopia> thelinuxer, a7san bardo .. bs heya heya .. thelinuxer ektsaaa7 :D
[14:31] <thelinuxer> bas i guess we need to change the way we think about managing the community
[14:31] <thelinuxer> loool
[14:31] <ashams> thelinuxer: Any way Tahrir is ready :)
[14:31] <thelinuxer> teslam ya basha
[14:31] <thelinuxer> ha2ow!
[14:31] <thelinuxer> ma 7'ado el saneya :D
[14:32] <Menopia> looool
[14:32] <ashams>  El Saneya will be our top priority on 9/9
[14:32] <thelinuxer> EL SENEYA BETA3TY WE MESH 7ASMA7LKO TA7'DOOHA !!
[14:34] <ashams> You should Admin @ SCAF too
[14:34] <ashams> be*
[14:34] <thelinuxer> looooooooool
[14:34] <thelinuxer> da law ana el admin fel SCAF konto zamanko edala3to ...
[14:34] <thelinuxer> shams leeh el itesalat
[14:34] <thelinuxer> wazery el ta3leem el 3aly
[14:35] <thelinuxer> anas el tegara el 7'aregeya
[14:35] <thelinuxer> a7la tazbeet
[14:35] <Menopia> howa el IRC meeting el gaay emta?
[14:35] <Menopia> thelinuxer, looooooooool
[14:35] <thelinuxer> next meeting will be isA friday 16th
[14:36] <thelinuxer> not sure IRC wala personal meeting
[14:36] <Menopia> el mafrdo yeb2a el main topic el approval application
[14:36] <Menopia> fe ra2yee ya3ny
[14:36] <thelinuxer> sa7ee7 fakarteny
[14:36] <thelinuxer> ashams: ya wiki admin :D
[14:36] <thelinuxer> we need a small favor
[14:36] <ashams> thelinuxer: yes ya man
[14:36] <ashams> thelinuxer: go ahead
[14:37] <thelinuxer> can u create the team reports page ?
[14:37] <thelinuxer> it's simply a collection of what we did in a certain month
[14:37] <thelinuxer> really really simple
[14:37] <ashams> thelinuxer: OK, nice Idea
[14:38] <thelinuxer> it's not my idead
[14:38] <thelinuxer> idea*
[14:38] <thelinuxer> it's something official
[14:38] <thelinuxer> check the locos wiki
[14:38] <thelinuxer> brb
[14:40] <thelinuxer> here it si
[14:40] <thelinuxer> is*\
[14:40] <thelinuxer> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/TeamReporting
[14:41] <thelinuxer> ashams: example https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrishTeam/TeamReports
[14:41] <ashams> lovely
[14:43]  * ashams is working
[14:44] <thelinuxer> ashams:  cool dude :)
[14:54] <thelinuxer> Menopia: dude if u want us to talk about approval
[14:54] <thelinuxer> here are the steps i think we should do
[14:54] <thelinuxer> first we need to create the application
[14:54] <thelinuxer> write down everything
[14:54] <thelinuxer> and ask people on the mailing list to review it
[14:54] <thelinuxer> discussing this in a meeting is really time consuming
[14:55] <Menopia> ah
[14:55] <elacheche_anis> back, thelinuxer what are you talking about?? what committee
[14:55] <elacheche_anis> ?
[14:55] <thelinuxer> may be when we are done we can meet to discuss it evern more
[14:55] <thelinuxer> elacheche_anis: i found this grp on launchpad called ubuntu-tn committee or something
[14:55] <thelinuxer> Menopia: check this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam/ApprovalApplication
[14:57] <elacheche_anis> oh yes, the CM(committee management).. For now we have not a MC, we change the structure of the teams, we have a new team called coordination team.. We want to do a new startup for our loco :D
[14:57] <Menopia> but is is very old, just to make an idea of what approval applications should look like
[14:57] <thelinuxer> elacheche_anis: that's gr8
[14:57] <Menopia> btw I read it one year ago :)
[14:58] <thelinuxer> i was mentioning this because i was meeting resistance when i talked about for this for our loco
[14:58] <thelinuxer> Menopia: can u restructure it ?
[14:58] <thelinuxer> and make it pretty like u always do :D
[15:00] <Menopia> bt7rgny dayman kda :D
[15:01] <Menopia> sa7e7 howa fe Qt session el esbo3 dah?
[15:04] <Menopia> thelinuxer,
[15:04] <thelinuxer> isA
[15:07] <thelinuxer> Menopia: 7ateshta3'al 3ala el application ?
[15:07] <Menopia> ah
[15:07] <Menopia> ana kman ha7ot el insights bta3t el face :D
[15:13] <thelinuxer> Menopia: tab3an, tab please copy this application. And work on the new copy or something
[15:13] <thelinuxer> backup ya3ny
[15:13] <Menopia> OK
[15:15] <EgyParadox> The only approved Arab teams are ubuntu-tn and ubuntu morrocco
[15:18] <thelinuxer> EgyParadox: yeah it's a pitty
[15:26] <ashams> EgyParadox: you'll be adding ubuntu-eg soon isA
[16:29] <ashams> Event: Wisconsin LoCo is running an IRC Bug Jam, Sunday 1700 UTC (four hours from now), #ubuntu-us-wi. Great training opportunity for people new to bugs.
[16:30] <ashams> Event: sorry it's just half an hour from now :D
[16:52] <ashams> Menopia: Hi, I need your opinion on this msg: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-eg/2011-September/003791.html
[16:52] <ashams> EgyParadox: Hi, I need your opinion on this msg: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-eg/2011-September/003791.html
[16:52] <ashams> seif: Hi, I need your opinion on this msg: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-eg/2011-September/003791.html
[16:53] <EgyParadox> ashams: Fee 7aga ye2dar ne3melha e7na mane2darsh?
[16:54] <Menopia> ashams, tany :D
[16:54] <ashams> EgyParadox: Menopia Bet7'afo?
[16:55] <EgyParadox> ye2dar ye3melha
[16:55] <EgyParadox> ka authroitu
[16:55] <EgyParadox> authority*
[16:55] <Menopia> ashams, msh fahem
[16:56] <ashams> Menopia: EgyParadox I just need your opinion
[16:57] <EgyParadox> ana ra2yee eno law 3ando solta e7na ma3andenash tab3an lazem tekalemhom
[16:57] <ashams> EgyParadox: Menopia I need support on that msg so I can attach to a support request from Community Council
[16:57] <Menopia> mana 2olto el sob7 .. ana wazery ya3m :D
[16:57] <EgyParadox> bas delwa2ti elteam managed by toulan/mzaian
[16:57] <EgyParadox> on launchpad dol eladmins
[16:57] <Menopia> ashams, t2sod a3ml reply 3al message sa7?
[16:58] <ashams> Menopia: Aywa ya 3am :D
[16:58] <Menopia> ah asef ana hayest showya :D
[16:58] <ashams> Menopia: np, Ana met3awwed 3ala keda mennak o.o
[16:59] <ashams> EgyParadox: So.....
[16:59] <Menopia> looooooool :D
[16:59] <EgyParadox> asdi
[16:59] <Menopia> ashams, ana ha2om akol w agy a3ml reply
[17:00] <ashams> Menopia: Bel hana wel Shefa ya seidi
[17:00] <ashams> Menopia: 3andoko akl eih?
[17:00] <ashams> Menopia: Eb2a Eftekrana Be 2i 7aga
[17:01] <ashams> EgyParadox: What's your opinion on that Ownership thing?
[17:01] <EgyParadox> mana oltelak dah ra2yee
[17:01] <EgyParadox> law howa lee privileges e7na ma3endenash
[17:01] <EgyParadox> bas
[17:02] <ashams> EgyParadox: I'm not asking you to do it, I just need to know if you agree or not?
[17:03] <ashams> EgyParadox: as a normal member
[17:03] <EgyParadox> I agree law 7aye3melena mashakel eno maslan mesh 7ane2dar ne3mel ay 7aga ela law elcreator wafe2
[17:03] <EgyParadox> ana mesh 3aref law fee 7aga zay keda
[17:04] <ashams> EgyParadox: we can do whatever we want evn if current/active Admins denied
[17:04] <ashams> EgyParadox: This is not the cause
[17:05] <ashams> EgyParadox: It's about the existance of some always-absent admin
[17:05] <EgyParadox> mashy
[17:07] <ashams> EgyParadox: The whole issue is about, assigning jobs to whom is qualified enough, and de-assigning whom ever goes inactive
[17:07] <ashams> EgyParadox: Just for preserving team's health
[17:10] <EgyParadox> tab ento 7awelto tewsalolo?
[17:12] <ashams> EgyParadox: It's not needed, why?, because if he didn't read the msg from the mailing list, then he's inactive enough to be de-administized
[17:13] <EgyParadox> hmm
[17:14] <Menopia> ashams, t2omor .. hab3atlak shoywa fe mail :P
[17:15] <ashams> Menopia: 3ala Allah teb3at la7ma;)
[17:15] <Menopia> 5arof b7alow 3shanak bs :D
[17:20] <Menopia> ashams, done
[17:20] <Menopia> lesa EgyParadox :D
[17:21] <ashams> Menopia: Thanks :D
[17:44] <EgyParadox> lwsa eh?
[17:44] <EgyParadox> lesa eh*
[17:46] <seif> ashams, i can contact karim fayez
[17:51] <ashams> EgyParadox: Thanks :D
[17:51] <ashams> seif: How, by phone?
[17:56] <seif> yeah
[17:56] <seif> i think i have his number
[17:56] <seif> if not i have him on msn too
[17:57] <EgyParadox> i mean authority not privleges*
[18:04] <ashams> seif: This would be great idea, but I think you're the one who should call him
[18:04] <ashams> seif: It would be sensitive for any of us ;)
[20:28] <ashams> seif: Hi, still there?
[20:32] <seif> pyeah
[20:32] <seif> i did not call yet
[20:32] <seif> will look inot that tomorrow
[20:32] <seif> have other stuff i am busy with atm
[20:32] <seif> sorry
[20:33] <ashams> seif: Ok, bye


[00:29] <hyprvx> Hello, how can I force an update through the 12.10 update manager to 13.04?
[00:29] <k1l> update-manager -d
[00:29] <k1l> d for developer version
[00:30] <hyprvx> Thank you k1l
[02:51] <ryaxnb> i like ubuntu 13.04!
[03:19] <ryaxnb> why are my window icons on the right side?
[03:19] <ryaxnb> i just installed gdm, gnome 3 and icewm is on display:1
[03:19] <ryaxnb> any of those cause it?
[03:19] <ryaxnb> i expect them to be on the left in unity
[03:23] <ryaxnb> HALP LOL!
[03:50] <ryaxnb15> any ideas?
[03:50] <ryaxnb15> what really bothers me about linux these days
[03:50] <ryaxnb15> is how incompatible GNOME 3 and Unity are
[03:51] <ryaxnb15> the tender harmony of freedesktop has been disturbed
[03:52] <IdleOne> not sure how they are incompatible when Unity runs on top of gnome 3
[03:53] <ryaxnb15> i mean, running both at once is very difficult precisely because of A)
[03:53] <ryaxnb15> er, precisely because of that.
[03:53] <ryaxnb15> i just installed GNOME 3, set my theme back to Ambiance
[03:53] <ryaxnb15> and i still can't get unity to function right.
[03:53] <IdleOne> you mean snome shell
[03:53] <ryaxnb15> yeah.
[03:53] <IdleOne> gnome*
[03:53] <ryaxnb15> used to be you could change DE easily through freedesktop
[03:54] <ryaxnb15> and there were standard DE-agnostic DMs
[03:54] <ryaxnb15> now each DE requires its DM
[03:54] <ryaxnb15> and each DE seems stupidly tied to it's own themes and stuff
[03:54] <ryaxnb15> i've gotten used to changing themes everytime i run Gnome DE
[03:54] <ryaxnb15> now it seems i have install the overlay scrollbars when i want Unity DE and uninstall them for GNOME DE
[03:55] <ryaxnb15> we need some standardization here.
[03:55] <ryaxnb15> so that all the processes necessary to change DEs happen when you choose a session in a DM that should ideally be agnostic. Failing that, make choosing DMs not require a reboot and make lightdm stop sucking.
[03:56] <ryaxnb15> right now i have to coax Ubuntu into becoming GNOME 3/Shellified in several steps, and then coax it back into being a Unity box every time i switch
[03:57] <ryaxnb15>  the problem with lightdm is that it doesn't support more than ~8 session types and you can't choose which ones appear
[03:57] <ryaxnb15> so it's too buggy for me to use once i've installed MATE, GNOME 3, Unity, Xubuntu, Cinnamon, Icewm, and Lubuntu
[04:11] <elky> hrm, anyone else having the unity dash not revealing sometimes? as in not even the shadow appears?
[04:12] <elky> not sure if the silly elantech mouse or unity
[04:12] <elky> s/mouse/trackpad/
[04:27] <bjsnider> ryaxnb15, the split between gnome and ubuntu is only likely to increase
[04:27] <bjsnider> as it has been increasing so far, i don't see why it shouldn't continue to increase
[07:46] <Valtam> is there a mini cd for 13.04?
[07:48] <doodah> DEBUG:duplicity:Giving up on request after 5 attempts, last status 400 Bad Request
[07:51] <wilee-nilee> Valtam, I am not seeing one I believe the mini's are on releases. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
[07:52] <Valtam> thanks
[07:52] <Valtam> so what is 'raring core' ?
[07:53] <wilee-nilee> Valtam, Not sure, how is it referenced?
[07:56] <Valtam> wilee-nilee, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/daily/current/
[07:58] <wilee-nilee> Valtam, Not sure to be honest. ;)
[07:58] <Valtam> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Core
[08:03] <wilee-nilee> Valtam, Thanks that gives somewhat of an explanation, it is a tiny download in a tar, so as a guess it seems to be similiar to a mini as in a net install, I would wonder if it is exactly live the mini in choice of installs of servers or desktops...etc
[08:03] <wilee-nilee> s/live/like
[08:04] <Valtam> there is a procedure to install it but tbh I can't be bothered :)
[08:05] <wilee-nilee> Valtam, Seems for specific use not sure what though as a regular user, the net installs though I believe are how you get the non pae kernels or at least has been.
[08:06] <wilee-nilee> or server installs
[10:47] <supertough> anyone running ubuntu 13.04?
[10:47] <supertough> i'm having problem with amd hd 7850 card
[10:47] <bekks> In this channel, pretty much everyone runs it.
[10:47] <supertough> after installed the proprietary driver i get a message saying failed to loaded session gnome
[10:48] <bekks> How do you install which driver exactly?
[10:48] <supertough> sudo sh *.sh --force
[10:48] <supertough> sudo ./*.sh to remove watermark
[10:48] <steveire> Can anyone help me come up with some workaround/more info for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1161655 ?
[10:49] <bekks> supertough: Whatever that might broke.
[10:49] <supertough> it seems like the amd driver i download is not compatible with 13.04 yet
[10:50] <supertough> right now i'm back to 12.10
[10:50] <bekks> Did you check the logs?
[10:51] <supertough> on my HP desktop i also got a amd 5450 card
[10:51] <supertough> no problem with that one
[10:51] <bekks> Did you check the logs?
[10:51] <supertough> i did
[10:51] <supertough> but have no idea how to fix the error
[10:51] <bekks> So whats the probloem in the logs? module not found, etc.?
[10:52] <supertough> i can't recalled it i just reinstalled with 12.10 on my desktop
[10:53] <bekks> So you dont even have a support issue then, now?
[10:53] <supertough> sh: 1: inxi: not found
[10:53] <bekks> I bet that not an error fro the X logs.
[10:55] <supertough> trying to show my video card
[10:56] <supertough> sh: 1: inxi: not found
[10:56] <supertough> sh: 1: inxi: not found
[10:57] <bekks> How do you try to show your video card?
[10:57] <bekks> lspci | grep VGA
[11:05] <supertough> CPU:       Quad core Intel Core i7-3770 CPU (-HT-MCP-) cache 8192 KB flags (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx) bmips 27138.2
[11:05] <supertough>            Clock Speeds: 1: 1600.00 MHz 2: 1600.00 MHz 3: 1600.00 MHz 4: 1600.00 MHz 5: 1600.00 MHz 6: 1600.00 MHz 7: 3401.00 MHz 8: 1600.00 MHz
[11:05] <supertough> Graphics:  Card: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI PITCAIRN PRO [Radeon HD 7800 Series] bus-ID 01:00.0
[11:05] <supertough>            X.Org 1.13.0 driver fglrx Resolution<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:05] <supertough>            GLX Renderer AMD Radeon HD 7800 Series GLX Version 4.2.12172 - CPC 12.10.17 Direct Rendering Yes
[11:05] <bekks> STOP
[11:05] <bekks> This is not a pastebin!
[11:06] <bekks> And that wasnt the output of lspci | VGA either.
[11:08] <supertough> i just want to know if someone manage to get ubuntu 13.04 working on amd hd 7850 card
[11:08] <supertough> if you did can you tell how?
[12:17] <steveire> Is there some way to find out what configs I've changed from the default configuration?
[12:18] <steveire> powertop seems to have changed a few things for me, and I wonder what else is non-default by now
[12:18] <steveire> Relating to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1161655
[12:49] <BluesKaj> Happy Easter all
[13:42] <steveire> yofel: fyi my networking issues are now solved. I have wired and wireless again, but there's certainly still bugs somewhere: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1161655 Thanks for the help
[13:44] <yofel> interesting. Good that you at least got it to work though
[13:49] <steveire> Yep. Interesting journey of discovery.
[13:52] <penguin42> hmm I didn't no powertop would do persistent
[13:54]  * penguin42 would probably check /etc/sysctl.d to see if it put anything in there
[13:54] <yofel> he didn't say whether "before" was in the same session or before a reboot
[13:54] <yofel> and this looks like it would fail the moment you enable runtime PM
[13:54] <yofel> guess I can test it later
[13:57] <ritz> hi, wallpaper aint loading up on raring as of today
[13:57] <ritz> with unity
[13:57] <penguin42> yofel: That stuff is very hardware specific
[13:58] <yofel> probably. I do at least e1000e, so might as well give it a try
[13:58] <yofel> *at least use
[13:58] <chunkyhead> did ubuntu 13.04 final beta freeze release yesterday?
[13:58] <yofel> chunkyhead: freeze yes, release no
[13:59] <yofel> beta release is april 4th
[13:59] <chunkyhead> wait what is freeze?
[14:00] <yofel> chunkyhead: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BetaFreeze
[14:00] <chunkyhead> can anyone help me out with the 13.04's torrent download link?
[14:01] <yofel> which image are you looking for?
[14:02] <chunkyhead> i386 yofel
[14:02] <yofel> chunkyhead: if you're looking for a current install image you'll find it here: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[14:02] <yofel> torrents aren't available until beta release
[14:03] <chunkyhead> oh i didnt know that, you mean beta final release? yofel
[14:03] <yofel> yes
[14:03] <yofel> there will be torrents for the beta images
[14:05] <chunkyhead> alright thanks a ton mate :D
[14:06] <chunkyhead> btw whats the difference between beta 1 release and beta final? just less bug prone right?
[14:06] <yofel> yes, they're just at different points in time
[14:06] <yofel> ubuntu had on beta1 btw.
[14:07] <yofel> *no
[14:07] <chunkyhead> and one more thing, the link you sent me, i386 one is giving me a 404 -____- http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/srv/cdimage.ubuntu.com/www/full/daily-live/20130328/raring-desktop-i386.iso
[14:08] <yofel> weird, click on the image below, that has the correct link
[14:09] <chunkyhead> 404 again
[14:09] <chunkyhead> for amd
[14:09] <chunkyhead> server crashed?
[14:12] <bekks> dont you have a 64bit computer?
[14:12] <yofel> chunkyhead:  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/raring-desktop-i386.iso gives you a 404?
[14:13] <chunkyhead> I LOVE YOU. thanks a tone
[14:13] <chunkyhead> tonne*
[15:08] <harrisr> link to be emailed when final version comes out
[16:13] <hyprvx> Hello, I upgraded to Raring and now the computer no longer boots
[16:13] <hyprvx> It's just a plain black screen
[16:14] <hyprvx> The screen goes off, and moving the mouse brings it back on, but it's still a plain black screen
[16:14] <hyprvx> Attempting to go into commandline mode does not work
[16:16] <hyprvx> Okay, some of you would be good at #IdleRPG, but I seriously need help
[16:18] <IdleOne> hyprvx: answer may be slow to come, long holiday weekend for many people
[16:19] <k1l> hmm, dont know. but your videocard and the used driver could help
[16:21] <hyprvx> I just upgraded from Quantal last night, and it was doing this after the upgrade
[16:21] <hyprvx> after rebooting
[16:22] <hyprvx> if it's of any help, the computer is a CR-48 modified to run the InsydeH2O BIOS
[16:25] <IdleOne> what GPU?
[16:29] <hyprvx> Intel Atom
[16:30] <hyprvx> wait, that's a G
[16:30] <hyprvx> it's some integrated Intel GPU
[16:31] <hyprvx> sorry, my monitor makes C's and G's look almost the same
[16:32] <IdleOne> lspci | grep VGA
[16:32] <IdleOne> that is a G not a C
[16:33] <hyprvx> again, this monitor and font makes me confuse Cs and Gs
[19:45] <bazhang> info linux
[19:45] <bazhang> !info linux
[20:39] <rymate1234> yo
[20:39] <rymate1234> just installed gnome 3.8
[20:39] <rymate1234> man is it siiiiiick
[20:40] <rymate1234> apart from this one annoying error with gnome tweak tool http://pastebin.com/fWuaMkVd
[20:40] <wilee-nilee> rymate1234, Got it instaled cool. ;)
[20:40] <rymate1234> lol
[20:45] <rymate1234> error only occurs in classic mode
[20:49] <bjsnider> gnome 3.8 isn't available in ubuntu yet
[20:49] <bjsnider> not until the next cycle
[20:57] <rymate1234> ok
[21:14] <supertough> how do you check version of gnome?
[21:15] <bazhang> !info gnome-common
[21:15] <bazhang> supertough, ^
[21:16] <wilee-nilee> gnome-shell --version
[21:17] <supertough_> thats mine GNOME-Shell 3.6.2
[21:17] <supertough_> check out my distro
[21:17] <supertough_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Kq_I52oteQ
[21:18] <bazhang> supertough_, thats not on topic here
[21:19] <supertough_> okay is there a way to make my system run ubuntu 13.04
[21:20] <supertough_> after i installed amd hd 7850 driver it said failed to loaded session gnome
[21:20] <supertough_> i'm stuck at the login screen
[21:21] <supertough_> and when I sudo apt-get purge lens* alt+f2 become useless
[21:21] <bjsnider> a lot of people have been talking about login issues the past couple of days
[21:22] <supertough_> i also love to get rid of that overlay-scrollbar
[21:22] <bjsnider> given the holidays i don't know if a fix will be forthcoming very soon
[21:22] <supertough_> and is there a way to keep the global menu from disappearing?
[21:23] <supertough_> will there be settings to make unity on the left move to the bottom?
[21:23] <supertough_> i really dislike left left left
[21:23] <wilee-nilee> supertough_, There was but it is a hck so no.
[21:24] <supertough_> wilee thats what i dont want a hack to get everything working the way i like.
[21:24] <supertough_> i mean a simple settings would be nice
[21:41] <supertough_> will there be more reliable support for google android on ubuntu 13.04?
[21:42] <supertough_> kinda of tricky to get my stuff off this lame android phone with mtp connection
[21:43] <supertough_> on windows 7 it just work
[21:43] <supertough_> no need for me to turn on the usb developer debugging
[21:44] <supertough_> any updates to get flawless MTP support?
[21:44] <wilee-nilee> supertough_, My droid shows right up, what is the rom on the android?
[21:45] <supertough_> i think mine is ics when i updated this thing it starts to use the MTP instead of usb connection
[21:45] <supertough_> 4.1.1
[21:48] <wilee-nilee> supertough_, What release are you running this is the 13.04 channel?
[21:48] <supertough_> ubuntu 12.10
[21:48] <supertough_> gnome-shell --version
[21:48] <wilee-nilee> supertough_, You need #ubuntu for that release.
[21:49] <supertough_> its ubuntu
[21:49] <wilee-nilee> supertough_, Correct but this is the development channel for 13.04 specifically. ;)
[21:50] <supertough_> suggestion MTP support more settings for Unity
[21:50] <wilee-nilee> supertough, I'm surprised the android device does not just mount with a plugin, it may be theOEM version
[21:50] <supertough_> more options to disable useless Lens
[21:50] <supertough_> i had no problem hooking this up to windows 7
[21:52] <wilee-nilee> supertough_, Do you have in androids developer option usb debuging ticked?
[21:52] <supertough_> did that trick
[21:52] <supertough_> nothing still.
[21:53] <wilee-nilee> supertough_, Well anyway this is the wrong channel so I can't resond anymore, nor do I know the answer, lol. ;)
[21:53] <supertough_> i know just want to let the devs know my problem that's all
[21:53] <supertough_> hopefully this get some work around on the next release
[21:53] <wilee-nilee> Cool
[21:55] <supertough_> ubuntu 13.04 refused to work with my amd hd 7850 so I can't test any farther
[22:04] <ironhalik> Hello
[22:04] <ironhalik> I've got a small problem with eclipse
[22:05] <ironhalik> in the package explorer, item that is selected has white font on grey background, when the explorer is not the active window
[22:05] <ironhalik> AFAIK, the settings regarding fonts and colors there are controlled by gnome, not by eclipse
[22:06] <ironhalik> on light grey background*
[22:21] <AndChat237204> hello
[22:21] <AndChat237204> 13.04 is here!
[23:42] <r0OOt> i discover a new exploit in ubuntu   http://rooot.dyndns-server.com/
[23:42] <bekks> r0OOt: Stop it.
[23:42] <bekks> You've been banned seconds ago for posting that nonsense already.
[23:59] <ironhalik> !danger


[00:22] <DangerM> Bit quiet in here
[01:55] <darkxst> oh crap, libreoffice menu bars are gone again
[14:59] <everaldo> good morning
[15:00] <smartboyhw> good evening (almost night) everaldo
[15:00] <everaldo> I really need to change my internet company, 8 hours without internet access :(
[15:00] <everaldo> looks like a week
[15:01] <smartboyhw> everaldo, eh do so:D
[15:04] <jbicha> hi
[15:06] <everaldo> just finishing slideshow
[15:06] <everaldo> a little hard to have something good withou any text
[15:06] <smartboyhw> everaldo, oooh?
[15:06]  * smartboyhw congrats everaldo
[16:59] <everaldo> jbicha, is there something that prevent us to have the gnome foot logo on one of our slides?
[17:19] <jbicha> everaldo: I don't think so
[17:20] <jbicha> but there are restrictions on how it can be used
[18:40] <everaldo> darkxst, what looks better?
[18:40] <everaldo> http://imagebin.org/231303
[18:40] <everaldo> or
[18:40] <everaldo> http://imagebin.org/231304
[18:41] <everaldo> without text is really hard to get it to be nice :(
[18:49] <darkxst> everaldo, I guess the second one
[18:49] <darkxst> but you could almost drop the header and make the screenshot bigger?
[18:50] <everaldo> darkxst, yes, I can but it will be diferent from first slide
[18:50] <everaldo> let me show first one
[18:51] <everaldo> first: http://imagebin.org/231307
[18:51] <everaldo> and second: http://imagebin.org/231308
[18:51] <everaldo> first and last have same layout
[18:52] <everaldo> this is the last slide: http://imagebin.org/231309
[18:59] <everaldo> darkxst, after first one shows only screenshots without headers?
[19:00] <darkxst> everaldo, yeh, atleast try it and see how it looks
[19:04] <everaldo> darkxst, don't looks to nice without header, transition looks to be abrupt
[19:04] <darkxst> ok
[19:05] <everaldo> also, all other distros slideshow have a header
[19:05] <everaldo> I am not happy with this no text slides
[19:05] <darkxst> make the screenshot take up all the space below the header perhaps?
[19:06] <everaldo> let me try
[19:10] <darkxst> jbicha, so I bought back gdmflexiserver, atleast can now switch users from unity/classic
[19:10] <everaldo> darkxst, dimensions are not the same of remaining space and we can't change the size of window
[19:11] <darkxst> everaldo, take screenshots at that dimension?
[19:11] <everaldo> darkxst, the best layout is this (IMHO) http://imagebin.org/231313
[19:12] <everaldo> darkxst, I can take some screenshots on same dimension but not all, as example gnome-shell must be a fullscreen  screenshot
[19:13] <jbicha> darkxst: yes I saw your bug, waiting to see if the patch will be committed or not
[19:13] <everaldo> jbicha, darkxst, is it so bad to don't have slideshow translations on first Ubunut GNOME ?
[19:13] <everaldo> slides with text looks so much better
[19:15] <jbicha> everaldo: yes, this release is a bit of a preview release, there are still major bugs and some of them just won't be fixable for 12.10
[19:15] <jbicha> it is a good release though and we've done a lot of good work
[19:16] <everaldo> jbicha, so, can we have some untranslated slides?
[19:19] <jbicha> I don't think that's a good idea
[19:20] <jbicha> I think we should try to follow the translation deadline rules, if we want to apply to be an official flavor
[19:21] <everaldo> jbicha, deadline is tomorow, do you think that anyone will translate it today?
[19:22] <jbicha> everaldo: how? the slideshow isn't even finished yet, and then the upload will need to be manually approved
[19:22] <jbicha> and the deadline is today
[19:22] <jbicha> tomorrow morning is like at 5 am my time and I'm not waking up then to do a release
[19:23] <jbicha> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TranslationDeadline
[19:24] <everaldo> jbicha, so, only two options, I have some slides with texts that looks very nice and some slides with only images that I don't like too much like this: http://imagebin.org/231304
[19:24] <everaldo> we must choose one of options
[19:25] <everaldo> we are more like http://imagebin.org/231313 or http://imagebin.org/231304
[19:26] <everaldo> except to the first http://imagebin.org/231307 and last http://imagebin.org/231309
[19:29] <jbicha> everaldo: well the status quo as of this weekend is no slideshow at all
[19:29] <jbicha> it's possible to have just screenshots/art without text
[19:30] <everaldo> jbicha, like this http://imagebin.org/231304
[19:30] <everaldo> ?
[19:31] <jbicha> text is tricky
[19:32] <everaldo> and we have slideshow, just need to choose between text or no text, as I said, I do prefer with text but.
[19:32] <jbicha> http://www.gnome.org/gnome-3/ and http://library.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.6/ don't say "GNOME Shell"
[19:32] <everaldo> also, I showed at least 8 different slides here, so we have a slideshow
[19:34] <everaldo> ok, let me show the complete set, commit and we can discuss better
[20:10] <darkxst> jbicha, are you going to merge my user menu suspend fix before freeze? (its quite a nasty bug!)
[20:15] <jbicha> darkxst: can you paste the link again?
[20:15] <darkxst> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1063110
[20:22] <everaldo> jbicha, darkxst, I just commit my first text version of slides to lp:~ecanuto/ubuntu/quantal/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/ubuntu-gnome
[20:22] <everaldo> also, you can see an animated gif showing all slides on: http://imagebin.org/231323
[20:24] <everaldo> jbicha, I just still working to try get something without text beause you guys sugested but the status quo as of this weekend is not slideshow at all
[20:25] <darkxst> everaldo, documents is not included
[20:27] <everaldo> darkxst, yes, and new Nautilus is also not included, that is why I don't like the idea to use  http://www.gnome.org/gnome-3/
[20:28] <everaldo> darkxst, as I said, it was my first version and that is why I still searching for somethings without text
[20:28] <everaldo> also I did a lot of experiences that I showed here
[20:29] <everaldo> you guys just need to choose clearly one way then I make 6~10 slides with/without images in center/left/right, full/partial size
[20:41] <darkxst> everaldo, just do whatever you think looks best (with no text of course)
[20:41] <jbicha> everaldo: sorry for the delay, a few different people talking to me
[20:42] <everaldo> for me still looks better with text (we can change some images like the one with Documents)
[20:42] <everaldo> without text
[20:42] <everaldo> no options looks to be ok because at least we have headers
[20:43] <everaldo> the option is to just put the software name on the header and screenshot like in one of versions that I showed
[20:44] <jbicha> everaldo: your latest slideshow on the branch adds a bunch of text
[20:44] <everaldo> jbicha, I know, it is just the old one, not my current work in progress, it is just to show that we had something on weekend but I just did not commit
[20:44] <jbicha> ok
[20:46] <everaldo> jbicha, the current work in progress is something like this: http://imagebin.org/231304
[20:48] <everaldo> just image without header don't fit the window and we cant resize the window
[20:48] <everaldo> :(
[20:51] <darkxst> why can't we resize window?
[20:51] <jbicha> everaldo: yeah, that'll do but I think the title should be Ubuntu GNOME or Ubuntu GNOME Remix
[20:51] <everaldo> jbicha, for all slides?
[20:52] <everaldo> darkxst, because it will not fit well the installer
[20:52] <jbicha> everaldo: did you want to do the changes to the debian/ directory also? changelog, control and the .install
[20:53] <jbicha> everaldo: well I only want us to add/modify like one string and I don't think "GNOME Shell" is a term we want to emphasize in the installer
[20:54] <everaldo> jbicha, let me made another gif with current work using "Ubuntu GNOME" for all headers
[21:16] <everaldo> jbicha, darkxst , http://imagebin.org/231328
[21:20] <jbicha> well those screenshots are a bit disappointing since that's not really what Ubuntu GNOME looks like out of the box
[21:21] <jbicha> Boxes & Documents aren't included, Nautilus is still at 3.4
[21:23] <everaldo> jbicha, it can be replaced, it is just to see the sequence and things like: remove slide X, put the slide Y before Z, etc
[21:25] <everaldo> also, things like: remove first and last slide
[21:26] <jbicha> it kinda needs to be replaced now then, we still need to get a merge proposal done and see if Dylan and the Release Team will accept the freeze break
[21:27] <everaldo> jbicha, about first and last slide, keep it since it uses the same text from Ubuntu or remove it?
[21:29] <jbicha> that's up to you, the first slide needs to use the same title as the other slides though
[21:30] <everaldo> yes, it is another question
[21:32] <everaldo> jbicha, all other flavours uses 12.10 on header, we will use "Ubuntu GNOME 12.10" or just 'Ubuntu GNOME" for all slides?
[21:32] <jbicha> sure add the 12.10
[21:33] <jbicha> ok, let's make the final deadline for your work in 1 hour, that will give me a few minutes to finish cleaning up the merge if needed and try to start the FFe process
[21:35] <everaldo> ok, that is fine
[21:43] <darkxst> jbicha, another minor packaging tweak for gdm https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/1055359
[21:43] <darkxst> that should also fix the X sometimes getting killed when gdm is removed
[21:53] <jbicha> darkxst: ok I don't understand what that change is doing
[21:54] <jbicha> uninstalling gdm kills the current session and I thought that was intentional on Debian's part; it is very annoying
[21:55] <jbicha> but how does your work fix that?
[21:55] <darkxst> jbicha, 1. dont try stopping gdm if its not running, 2. dont stop gdm if there is an active X session
[21:56] <darkxst> uninstalling gdm currently only kills the current session if X is running on a different display than :0
[21:57] <jbicha> why do we need to stop gdm at all?
[22:01] <darkxst> well I suppose if you don't stop it, then only option would be to reboot
[22:01] <darkxst> but now if would only stop gdm if safe to do so, (i.e. if you are running from a VT, with no active X session)
[22:13] <jbicha> darkxst: lightdm doesn't stop itself when it's uninstalled? what would break if gdm is allowed to keep running
[22:13] <jbicha> I've uninstalled the currently running kernel before several times and things seemed to be ok
[22:14] <darkxst> jbicha, it just means you must reboot to bring up the new display manager
[22:17] <darkxst> but other than that, nothing should break
[22:18] <jbicha> ok, then I'd rather we not kill gdm at all; sysadmins can either reboot or kill gdm manually
[22:20] <darkxst> with that patch we won't kill gdm if there is an active X session
[22:20] <darkxst> but I could just remove the whole block from the script if you prefer
[22:22] <darkxst> so that we never try to stop gdm
[22:23] <jbicha> sure, I'm not going to push that tonight though as I want to test what happens a bit more
[22:30] <darkxst> here is an alternate patch to never stop gdm -> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~darkxst/ubuntu/quantal/gdm/lp1055359-alt/revision/269
[22:35] <robert_ancell> darkxst, oh hello
[22:35] <robert_ancell> darkxst, did you see my questions in https://code.launchpad.net/~darkxst/ubuntu/quantal/gdm/lp1055359?
[22:36] <robert_ancell> Just wondering if we shouldn't just drop that code in the prerm
[22:36] <robert_ancell> It's not in the lightdm package and I can't see any particular demand for it
[22:37] <darkxst> robert_ancell, yes we could
[22:37] <darkxst> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~darkxst/ubuntu/quantal/gdm/lp1055359-alt/revision/269
[22:39] <darkxst> robert_ancell, but either way we don't want to stop gdm if theres an active X session
[22:39] <robert_ancell> exactly
[22:42] <jbicha> everaldo: hey, time's about up
[22:42] <everaldo> jbicha, ok, commiting
[22:42] <everaldo> it is done :-)
[22:43] <everaldo> let me juts add debian dir
[22:46] <darkxst> robert_ancell, probably needs to go into precise also? would hate to think what would happen if gdm got killed during a dist-upgrade
[22:48] <robert_ancell> darkxst, sounds right, can you do a "nominate for series" in the bug please?
[22:49] <darkxst> ok
[22:50] <jbicha> everaldo: for the final slide, could you use the text from Ubuntu's slideshow so as not to add a new string?
[22:51] <everaldo> jbicha, are you looking last version that I commit?
[22:51] <everaldo> jbicha, because I removed the text, now it is only links, if you want I can get text back (it was the one from ubuntu)
[22:52] <darkxst> robert_ancell, actually I can't
[22:52] <darkxst> I dont have access to that option
[22:53] <robert_ancell> darkxst, oh, is that one of those features that need more permissions? I think it people just used to click on it for everything
[22:53] <robert_ancell> darkxst, ok, I've done that
[22:54] <darkxst> so I will update the merge request with my second patch (i.e. just remove that block of code)?
[22:55] <robert_ancell> darkxst, I'm just uploading the change now, so no need
[22:55] <darkxst> ok
[22:56] <jbicha> everaldo: I think Ubuntu's text gives more context so let's use it; reusing existing strings is ok
[22:58] <everaldo> ok
[22:58] <everaldo> jbicha, how I can prevent bzr commit to commit changes o .pot files?
[23:00] <jbicha> everaldo: um, we want the .pot updated
[23:00] <everaldo> ok, I will commit them
[23:03] <everaldo> jbicha, change debian/changelog too?
[23:07] <robert_ancell> darkxst, oh, precise doesn't have the bug. It handles the stop from failing
[23:07] <jbicha> everaldo: yes, please and reference bug 1051162
[23:08] <everaldo> jbicha, also, theres minimize  and maximize button on my screenshots, is it a problem?
[23:10] <darkxst> robert_ancell, it would still stop gdm, if X session is not on :0
[23:10] <jbicha> everaldo: at this point I don't think it's too big of a deal
[23:10] <robert_ancell> darkxst, right, but the specific bug is the package wont uninstall. You'll need to open a new bug if you want this other issue fixed
[23:14] <everaldo> jbicha, done
[23:16]  * everaldo building package locally
[23:18] <everaldo> waiting for building before propose for merge
[23:24] <jbicha> hmm... on second thought, the slideshows don't use the same potfiles :(
[23:25] <darkxst> robert_ancell, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/1064116
[23:26] <everaldo> jbicha, yes, we need to copy ubuntu files to ubuntu-gnome
[23:28] <jbicha> ok, can you run generate-pot-files.sh again, copy the po files over and I think we need to change the header to say
[23:29] <jbicha> ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu-gnome instead of ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
[23:30] <jbicha> I just use the find command from http://www.brunolinux.com/02-The_Terminal/Find_and%20Replace_with_Sed.html to do substitutions like that
[23:30] <jbicha> and then subscribe ubuntu-release when done
[23:31] <jbicha> I sent Dylan McCall an email 2 hours ago to try to give him a heads up that we're trying to push this at the last moment
[23:32] <everaldo> jbicha, if I copy .po now and they import is again from launchpad we will lose some translations
[23:34] <jbicha> everaldo: um, I think it will be ok but we need to get it uploaded before the language pack builds start early tomorrow
[23:36] <everaldo> jbicha, what you mean when you say "and then subscribe ubuntu-release when done" ?
[23:36] <jbicha> everaldo: never mind, I just did that
[23:37] <everaldo> jbicha, also, do you know why I am on revision 501 and lp:ubuntu/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu are on 57 ?
[23:37] <jbicha> we need the release team to approve the Feature Freeze Exception
[23:38] <jbicha> everaldo: that's not a problem, you branched the packaging branch which is good; the ubuntu branch is for each time the package is uploaded as a new release in Ubuntu
[23:39] <jbicha> robert_ancell: would you be interested in uploading ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu with bug 1051162 if it gets approved by the Release Team
[23:45]  * everaldo running generate-pot-files.sh
[23:48] <jbicha> heading out for supper
[23:48] <everaldo> jbicha, .po files still have lots of garbage but I don't see it as a problem
[23:48] <everaldo> jbicha, one last thing... merge to which branch?
[23:49] <everaldo> s/merge/request merge/


[18:38] <mup> Bug #1507359 opened: MAAS 1.9 image names and Juju streams disagree <add-machine> <centos> <maas-provider> <streams> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.24:Triaged> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1507359>
[18:47] <mup> Bug #1507359 changed: MAAS 1.9 image names and Juju streams disagree <add-machine> <centos> <maas-provider> <streams> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.24:Triaged> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1507359>
[18:53] <mup> Bug #1507359 opened: MAAS 1.9 image names and Juju streams disagree <add-machine> <centos> <maas-provider> <streams> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.24:Triaged> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1507359>
[20:20] <mup> Bug #1507359 changed: MAAS 1.9 image names and Juju streams disagree <add-machine> <centos> <maas-provider> <streams> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.24:Triaged> <MAAS:Opinion> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1507359>
[20:23] <mup> Bug #1507359 opened: MAAS 1.9 image names and Juju streams disagree <add-machine> <centos> <maas-provider> <streams> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.24:Triaged> <MAAS:Opinion> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1507359>
[20:29] <mup> Bug #1507359 changed: MAAS 1.9 image names and Juju streams disagree <add-machine> <centos> <maas-provider> <streams> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.24:Triaged> <MAAS:Opinion> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1507359>
[20:41] <mup> Bug #1507359 opened: MAAS 1.9 image names and Juju streams disagree <add-machine> <centos> <maas-provider> <streams> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.24:Triaged> <MAAS:Opinion> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1507359>
[20:44] <mup> Bug #1507359 changed: MAAS 1.9 image names and Juju streams disagree <add-machine> <centos> <maas-provider> <streams> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.24:Triaged> <MAAS:Opinion> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1507359>
[20:50] <mup> Bug #1507359 opened: MAAS 1.9 image names and Juju streams disagree <add-machine> <centos> <maas-provider> <streams> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.24:Triaged> <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1507359>


[18:27] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: How's -controls?
[18:27] <OvenWerks> moving... but slowly
[18:28] <Eickmeyer[m]> Understood. Anything to the point where it would be bug fixes from here on?
[18:29] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: if we need to take the tablet things out. Maybe best to just remove the GUI and leave the stuff in -controls and autojack in place
[18:30] <Eickmeyer[m]> Well, if it comes down to it, we might have to. We can't introduce new features beyond tomorrow since the deadline is Thursday.
[18:30] <OvenWerks> even to just disable the tab
[18:32] <Eickmeyer[m]> Right.
[18:35] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, I'm off to do errands. Tag me if you need me.
[18:41] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: whatever you end up with, just tag me letting me know your last git push is ready. :)
[19:20] <OvenWerks> pushed... lets do some testing
[22:04] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, I'll get on it.
[22:04] <Eickmeyer[m]> (just got home)
[22:43] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: I have no way of testing the tablet stuff. Does it work at all?
[22:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: The audio stuff works perfectly.


[01:25] <CIA-32> user-setup: cjwatson * r264 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog user-setup-apply): Stop copying /etc/crypttab if OVERRIDE_ALREADY_ENCRYPTED_SWAP is set; ubiquity will take care of this.
[01:28] <CIA-32> user-setup: cjwatson * r265 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog user-setup-apply):
[01:28] <CIA-32> user-setup: Revert the change from 1.42ubuntu2. We'll handle this in ubiquity
[01:28] <CIA-32> user-setup: instead; in d-i, it seems to be too difficult to get right without the
[01:28] <CIA-32> user-setup: aid of script libraries from cryptsetup.
[01:48] <CIA-32> user-setup: cjwatson * r266 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.42ubuntu3
[02:04] <CIA-32> ubiquity: cjwatson * r5386 trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs):
[02:04] <CIA-32> ubiquity: If encrypting the user's home directory, wipe and enable encrypted swap
[02:04] <CIA-32> ubiquity: before starting the slideshow, because running the slideshow can use up
[02:04] <CIA-32> ubiquity: a lot of memory so we won't be able to disable swap once that's in
[02:04] <CIA-32> ubiquity: progress (LP: #979350).
[02:13] <CIA-32> ubiquity: cjwatson * r5387 trunk/ (d-i/manifest debian/changelog):
[02:13] <CIA-32> ubiquity: Automatic update of included source packages: apt-setup 1:0.55ubuntu3,
[02:13] <CIA-32> ubiquity: partman-base 153ubuntu4, user-setup 1.42ubuntu3.
[02:27] <CIA-32> ubiquity: cjwatson * r5388 trunk/ (debian/changelog scripts/plugininstall.py):
[02:27] <CIA-32> ubiquity: If /etc/network/interfaces doesn't exist when configuring the network in
[02:27] <CIA-32> ubiquity: oem-config, write out a skeleton one (LP: #985305).
[02:39] <CIA-32> ubiquity: cjwatson * r5389 trunk/debian/changelog: releasing version 2.10.14
[03:11] <infinity> cjwatson: Say, short of cargo-culting the LP task generation scripts and reducing them for a minimal use-case, do you have a simple recipe for generating Packages files with task sanity?
[03:12] <infinity> cjwatson: I assume I just need to grab the overrides and reference them magically in my apt-ftparchive config.
[03:12] <infinity> Oh, but I'm not using an apt.conf.  So, I'd need to fix that. :P
[09:11] <FourDollars> cjwatson: I have some new found about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/partman-efi/+bug/972122 .
[09:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 972122 in partman-efi "Ubiquity pops out a warning message from partman-partitioning on UEFI BIOS when there is a EFI system partition existed." [Medium,Fix released]
[09:12] <FourDollars> cjwatson: For https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/partman-efi/+bug/972122, it does fixed manually partitioning.
[09:12] <FourDollars> cjwatson: But how about if we provide the preseed.cfg to let it do partitioning automatically.
[09:13] <FourDollars> cjwatson: It will trigger /bin/autopartition, but the previous case will not.
[09:15] <FourDollars> cjwatson: If we provide a preseed.cfg to let ubiquity do partitioning automatically on a disk with EFI system partition already existed, that will trigger /bin/autopartition and make installation fail.
[09:16] <FourDollars> cjwatson: That is what I infer.
[10:10] <ogra_> cjwatson, is there any reason why d-i doesnt dump its version somewhere into syslog ? its hard to say what version a user used if he used the "current" link on the download page
[10:13]  * ogra_ doesnt get why the system in Bug #985520  doesnt boot
[10:13] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 985520 in debian-installer "pandaboard ES does not boot after using armhf netinstall" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985520
[10:22] <cjwatson> infinity: I think you can grab extra override files out of ubuntu/indices/; I don't have a recipe
[10:22] <cjwatson> ogra_: the version of d-i itself (i.e. the build system) is often not desperately helpful
[10:23] <ogra_> well, i would like to know which version the user downloaded
[10:23] <cjwatson> there are lots of more relevant versions dumped into syslog, normally
[10:23] <cjwatson> argh I wish FourDollars would just answer the questions I asked
[10:25] <stgraber> cjwatson: we just got bug 985526 reported on the tracker but without anything useful in the logs that I could find. I'll do a test install with the same media to check
[10:25] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 985526 in ubiquity "exit with error if encryption is selected" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985526
[10:27] <cjwatson> stgraber: erk
[10:29] <jibel> I tried to reproduce and didn't get the error.
[10:29] <jibel> but there is now a long delay between the moment the user clicks on 'continue' in user setup and the moment the slideshow starts
[10:31] <stgraber> jibel: yeah, that part is expected, it's cjwatson's fix to the OOM problem
[10:31] <stgraber> jibel: it's basically disabling your current swap, wiping it, encrypting it and re-enabling it before starting the slideshow
[10:32] <jibel> stgraber, I know, I'm just pointing that there is no feedback, and from a user view it's like if nothing happened when he clicked on continue
[10:32] <cjwatson> Yes, there is a long delay with no feedback.  I'm afraid you'll have to cope with that.
[10:33] <cjwatson> There was no safe way that I could see to add progress reporting there.
[10:33] <cjwatson> Or I can revert the whole thing back such that it fails for lots of people if you'd prefer (but I wouldn't prefer that).
[10:35] <cjwatson> Also, it was 4am by the time I finished this as it was.  Refinements weren't happening.
[10:37] <stgraber> it's installing fine here, also booting into ubiquity-dm, also installing in Italian
[10:38] <cjwatson> hm, so I wonder what went wrong for Fabio
[10:39] <cjwatson> some weird race?  but why a crash with no error output ...
[10:40] <cjwatson> oh
[10:40] <cjwatson> Apr 19 09:50:26 ubuntu ubiquity: cp: cannot stat `/target/etc/fstab'
[10:40] <cjwatson> Apr 19 09:50:26 ubuntu ubiquity: : No such file or directory
[10:40] <stgraber> gah, you were faster again, I was just about to copy/paste that one ;)
[10:41] <stgraber> wondering if it's related to:
[10:41] <stgraber> Apr 19 09:49:43 ubuntu ubiquity: umount: /mnt/tmpmount: device is busy.
[10:41] <stgraber> Apr 19 09:49:43 ubuntu ubiquity:         (In some cases useful info about processes that use
[10:41] <stgraber> Apr 19 09:49:43 ubuntu ubiquity:          the device is found by lsof(8) or fuser(1))
[10:41] <stgraber> Apr 19 09:49:43 ubuntu ubiquity: rmdir: failed to remove `/mnt/tmpmount'
[10:41] <stgraber> Apr 19 09:49:43 ubuntu ubiquity: : Device or resource busy
[10:41] <cjwatson> maybe, but I think not, I think there's a race between partman_commit and usersetup
[10:42] <stgraber> hmm, no, doesn't look like it's. The umount failure is likely on sda3 and he's installing on sdb
[10:43] <cjwatson> unless that failure caused partman_commit to bail out entirely
[10:43]  * cjwatson hates clear_partitions
[10:44] <cjwatson> that's bug 946663
[10:44] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 946663 in ubiquity "Installer stuck at "Removing conflicting operating system files..."" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/946663
[10:46] <cjwatson> stgraber: it could well be that failure
[10:46] <cjwatson> I can add a workaround
[10:48] <stgraber> I'm wondering what's keeping a fd open in /mnt/tmpmount... did we ever got someone to run lsof right after that?
[10:48] <cjwatson> yes, it's too racy to catch
[10:48] <CIA-32> partman-target: cjwatson * r929 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog finish.d/clear_partitions):
[10:48] <CIA-32> partman-target: Exit 0 at the end of finish.d/clear_partitions, so that partman-commit
[10:48] <CIA-32> partman-target: will carry on even if the final rmdir fails (which is a bug in itself,
[10:48] <CIA-32> partman-target: but shouldn't blow away the whole install; LP: #985526).
[10:49] <cjwatson> almost tempted to add a stupid umount/sleep/umount/sleep/... loop hack
[10:49] <cjwatson> but WTF
[10:49] <stgraber> didn't we move to "umount -l" at some point?
[10:49] <stgraber> I remember it being mentioned during the installer sprint at least
[10:50] <cjwatson> in some places
[10:50] <cjwatson> we can try it I guess; I'm just uncomfortable with having no idea what the true problem is
[10:51] <stgraber> I think -l would be best for 12.04 and in 12.10 we probably should make that a umount || lsof -n && umount -l or something
[10:51] <stgraber> so hopefully we can catch what's keeping an open fd
[10:54] <CIA-32> partman-target: cjwatson * r930 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog finish.d/clear_partitions):
[10:54] <CIA-32> partman-target: Use 'umount -l' in finish.d/clear_partitions, to work around an as yet
[10:54] <CIA-32> partman-target: unidentified race that keeps the filesystem busy (LP: #946663).
[10:54]  * ogra_ votes for -l too ... better than a loop
[10:54] <ogra_> but also a hardcoded lsof call that dumps into the log ;)
[10:56] <CIA-32> partman-target: cjwatson * r931 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 77ubuntu2
[11:10] <cjwatson> gema: bug 985491 analysed, but do you think we can encourage more productive behaviour from translation QA here?
[11:10] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 985491 in ubiquity "No locale-dependent substitution of ${TIME}; install_progress_text has no translation support" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985491
[11:12] <gema> cjwatson: victor started in our team this week, kate insisted that she wanted chinese testing as soon as possible, sorry about the bug not being split into different issues
[11:13] <gema> cjwatson: right now, for precise, what do you want me to do, do you want me to ask him to split it?
[11:14] <gema> cjwatson: reading your bug, I will help him split it
[11:14] <gema> your comment, I mean
[11:16] <cjwatson> yep, the installer bugs at least aren't RC anyway
[11:16] <cjwatson> that's no problem, I just want to instil good practices early for new starters as it'll save time later :)
[11:16] <cjwatson> we have too many grab-bag "translation issues" bugs that never get closed because they're multiple problems
[11:18] <gema> cjwatson: ack
[11:20]  * cjwatson tries to reproduce bug 985368
[11:21] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 985368 in ubiquity "ubiquity crashed with AttributeError in on_link_clicked(): 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'split'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985368
[11:30] <CIA-32> ubiquity: cjwatson * r5390 trunk/ (debian/changelog ubiquity/plugins/ubi-language.py):
[11:30] <CIA-32> ubiquity: Fix crash when attempting to update the installer and a language isn't
[11:30] <CIA-32> ubiquity: selected for some reason (LP: #985368).
[11:38] <stgraber> cjwatson: I'm really not too happy about my last gsettings change (running in dbus-launch), we end up with ~10-15 dbus-daemon + dbus-launch running at the end of the install
[11:38] <stgraber> each of them with their own dconf-writer running, even though that "works" (AFAICT), I feel like I need to clean that up a little
[11:39] <cjwatson> where was that change?
[11:40] <stgraber> I think the root of the gsettings issue is that dconf-writer doesn't get killed properly and so doesn't dump its changes to disk, instead I think we should try to spawn it from ubiquity-dm (maybe inside a dbus-launch call if that's what it needs) and kill that when ubiquity-dm exits
[11:40] <stgraber> cjwatson: r5356 in ubiquity/gsettings.py
[11:40] <stgraber> essentially a workaround for bug 960096
[11:41] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 960096 in libxklavier "Live session started with wrong layout" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/960096
[11:42] <cjwatson> do you think it's RC?  I agree it's not particularly elegant, but ...
[11:43] <cjwatson> maybe a branch staged for Q
[11:43] <stgraber> yeah, I haven't seen any report of it blowing up, though I can't see how 10 dconf-writer running and writing to the same binary DB could be a good thing
[11:44] <CIA-32> ubiquity: cjwatson * r5391 trunk/ (d-i/manifest debian/changelog): Automatic update of included source packages: partman-target 77ubuntu2.
[11:48] <CIA-32> ubiquity: cjwatson * r5392 trunk/debian/changelog: releasing version 2.10.15
[12:05] <stgraber> right, change done, tested and merge proposal sent. Now to look at something else.
[12:44] <gema> cjwatson: continuing the saga of chinese translation problems: bug 985524, bug 985598, bug 985605, bug 985614 and bug 985616
[12:44] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 985524 in debian-installer "Wrong translation during the installation process of Ubuntu 12.04 precise-alternate-amd64.iso with choosing Simple Chinese as the installation language" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985524
[12:44] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 985598 in debian-installer "the Chinese font size seems not the same" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985598
[12:44] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 985605 in debian-installer "The keyboard config page should be translated into Chinese" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985605
[12:44] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 985614 in debian-installer "Something wrong in the keyboard layout selection page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985614
[12:44] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 985616 in debian-installer "sometimes, there is no color at the lower right corner of the screen during the installation process" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985616
[12:45] <gema> cjwatson: hope that is more manageable
[12:46] <cjwatson> it's certainly better as multiple bugs, yes, thanks
[12:46] <gema> np
[12:47] <cjwatson> Although somebody should tell Victor that not everyone speaks Chinese and thus if he's going to say that a translation is wrong he also needs to say what the correct translation would be :-)
[12:47] <gema> haha, good point
[12:50] <gema> cjwatson: I was wondering myself how are you guys going to search for text that is in a picture, not having a chinese keyboard
[12:51] <cjwatson> with difficulty ...
[12:51] <gema> I will ask him to type the wrong and the right translation clearly, so that it makes it easier
[12:52] <cjwatson> well, if he's going to be contributing correct translations, Launchpad Translations is better at that than bugs ...
[12:52] <cjwatson> if I'm lucky I can recognise it from context
[12:52] <gema> yes, the problem is that we are raising these for precise
[12:52] <gema> so kate needs to have visibility of what's going on
[12:53] <cjwatson> nothing I've seen yet is RC for precise, honestly
[12:53] <gema> no, still half an hour for my meeting with her
[12:53] <gema> it's her call
[12:53] <gema> he asked for the testing
[12:53] <cjwatson> if we were going to be doing a serious translation push for Chinese, it should have been weeks ago
[12:53] <gema> she
[12:53] <gema> agreed
[12:53] <cjwatson> right, I think she wants testing of the Chinese images, but more like "does it actually work at all sanely"
[12:53] <gema> that, and many other things
[12:54] <cjwatson> I wasn't aware she was after 100% translation
[12:54] <cjwatson> (say)
[12:54] <gema> me neither, until yesterday when she was pushing for this, so I give her the bugs and she can decide, not my call
[12:55] <gema> maybe she thinks some are more visible and hence worth fixing than others
[12:55] <stgraber> I've done quite a few Chinese installs recently (it's one of the usual tests for Edubuntu) and quite a few d-i dialogs aren't fully translated, same for the post-install experience
[12:55] <gema> we'll be better positioned for Q, with victor in the team, we didn't have anyone that could read chinese before
[12:55] <stgraber> but nothing that needed a bug there as it was just missing translations that the translators need to work on
[12:56] <gema> nothing that you could read, stgraber , I am guessing
[12:56] <gema> if something is wrongly translated, depending on what it actually says, it may need fixing
[12:56] <stgraber> a weird one though is the d-i dialog telling you that your current language isn't fully translated was entirely in english ;)
[12:56] <gema> haha
[12:57] <gema> at least they can guess from that message the meaning x)
[12:57] <stgraber> gema: right, I'm only interested in things that can't be translated and that's what I'm after in these test installs. I don't care about the translation being wrong as I can't do anything about it anyway
[12:57] <gema> stgraber: ack
[12:57] <gema> stgraber: that's where we'll try to help
[12:57] <stgraber> last I checked I didn't even have the required LP rights to fix a french translation
[12:58] <cjwatson> I do, but I can only do so when it's utterly blatant and trivial to fix
[12:58] <cjwatson> I'm certainly not getting into correcting wording in 60 languages
[12:58] <gema> cjwatson: what language do you translate?
[12:58] <cjwatson> none
[12:58] <gema> ah, ok
[12:59] <cjwatson> I'm only fluent in English although I read several other languages
[12:59] <cjwatson> (with varying degrees of difficulty)
[12:59] <gema> ok
[12:59] <cjwatson> but in some cases it's clear that a translation is wrong regardless of that
[12:59] <gema> yep
[12:59] <stgraber> so it sounds like what we need for Chinese is a native speaker who's good at translation to go through the whole desktop and update the translations on LP, but too late for 12.04 as we need new langpacks + installer uploads, so would have to wait for .1
[12:59] <cjwatson> for instance when there are HTML tags embedded in the translated string and somebody translated the tag names
[13:00] <gema> cjwatson: that's a good one
[13:00] <gema> I think we should ask for duolingo's help for spanish and german
[13:00] <CIA-32> console-setup: cjwatson * r434 ubuntu/debian/ (42 files in 2 dirs):
[13:00] <CIA-32> console-setup: Update Ubuntu-specific translations from Launchpad (fixes most of LP
[13:00] <CIA-32> console-setup: #985605).
[13:00] <cjwatson> In most cases for the installer, the most productive way to do this is to translate d-i upstrea
[13:00] <cjwatson> m
[13:01] <cjwatson> The exceptions are strings that are ubiquity-specific and a handful of other Ubuntu-specific strings
[13:01] <cjwatson> there are reasonably stock instructions in the translator bits of the wiki somewhere nowadays, I think
[13:01] <gema> stgraber: how do we know someone is good at translating chinese?
[13:02] <gema> stgraber: I mean I trust victor knows chinese, but being good at translating takes more than just being native in the language
[13:02] <stgraber> gema: one thing would be to have him join the Chinese translator mailing-list, read the team guidelines (if they have some), ... translation teams are usually good at peer review
[13:02] <gema> stgraber: I will ask skaet how she wants to proceed
[13:03] <gema> stgraber: ack
[13:03] <stgraber> gema: in an ideal world, he should only report bugs against d-i/ubiquity/anything when the translation is present in LP but not visible in the UI. For the other cases, it'd be easier to just contribute new translations.
[13:04] <cjwatson> +1
[13:04] <cjwatson> we do *not* want to be forced into the role of arbitrating between disagreeing translators ...
[13:04] <cjwatson> that's the role of a translation team
[13:04] <stgraber> gema: I'm fine with these few extra bugs for now, but if we start getting similar bugs for every language and software in Ubuntu, we won't be able to manage the load
[13:04] <cjwatson> stgraber: ... or when text is visible in the UI but not available for translation in LP
[13:05] <gema> ok, maybe victor, jibel and myself should all be part of a translator team for chinese, french and spanish and fix things there
[13:05] <gema> going forward
[13:05] <stgraber> cjwatson: right
[13:05] <cjwatson> or when it isn't possible to construct a correct translation due to a software defect
[13:05] <cjwatson> gema: if you're interested in complete translations for those languages, yes, you should
[13:05] <gema> I am going to add that as a topic to discuss at UDS
[13:05] <cjwatson> talk to dpm; he can give you pointers
[13:05] <gema> ok
[13:06] <cjwatson> hm, there's something wrong with my translation update scripts
[13:06] <cjwatson> that console-setup translation should actually be complete ...
[13:09] <cjwatson> ah, that's better, they work better with the right options
[13:10] <CIA-32> console-setup: cjwatson * r435 ubuntu/debian/ (37 files in 2 dirs): invoke my translation update script with the right options, fixing LP: #985605 properly
[13:10] <jibel> gema, there are people whose interest is translation, it is not mine. And given my skills in non-english languages, I am not sure it is a good idea that I contribute to translations :)
[13:11] <jibel> s/non-english/non-french/
[13:13] <antarus> your english looks fine so far ;p
[13:13] <antarus> I wonder if there are any ubuntu developers in Munich...
[13:15] <ogra_> we used to have a map on planet.ubuntu.com where you could look .... but that seems to have vanished
[13:16] <antarus> oh man
[13:17] <antarus> I wonder if we could get a corp blog on planet
[13:17]  * antarus fears the paperwork involved
[13:24] <gema> sorry, I broke my irssi
[13:25] <gema> some days I wish I didn't break everything I touch
[13:26] <stgraber> aren't you paid to break everything you touch?
[13:26] <gema> stgraber: yes, but I need at least a working browser to report the problems ;)
[13:26] <CIA-32> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1679 ubuntu/ (build/Makefile debian/changelog):
[13:26] <CIA-32> debian-installer: Add all characters in /usr/share/console-setup-mini/kbdnames.gz to the
[13:26] <CIA-32> debian-installer: reduced font (LP: #985614).
[13:26] <antarus> gema: launchpad has a commandline api ;p
[13:27] <gema> antarus: that's a new one, I will  look into that
[13:27] <gema> antarus: but I also break launchpad from time to time
[13:27] <antarus> don't get me wrong, I haven't used it
[13:27] <antarus> it has too many dependencies that I have to check in :/
[13:28] <gema> and my car's radio breaks too easily too
[13:29] <gema> need to figure out how to raise bugs with VW
[13:37] <cjwatson> gema: https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib
[13:37] <cjwatson> absolutely invaluable, well worth learning
[13:38] <stgraber> +1
[14:03] <didrocks> hey
[14:03] <mpt> hi didrocks
[14:03] <mpt> So, about OneConf
[14:03] <mpt> This would just restore installed software, not (a) config files or (b) home folder, right?
[14:04] <didrocks> right, just installed software
[14:04] <didrocks> I see two use case: cloning an install with the same package set
[14:04] <didrocks> or reinstalling, and so "taking over" the old computer identifier
[14:05] <gema> cjwatson: added to my todo
[14:06] <mpt> didrocks, so the precondition is that you've chosen "Sync Between Computers" on the old computer?
[14:07] <mpt> and that the sync has finished
[14:07] <didrocks> mpt: indeed, otherwise, you have no set available
[14:07] <mpt> ok
[14:07] <didrocks> mpt: otherwise, it will just be a "subscribe" thing. Not sure we want that
[14:10] <mpt> didrocks, ok, so a first draft of the intro text in the installer: "If you've synced a computer before in Ubuntu Software Center, you can reinstall the same software on this one that you had on that one."
[14:12] <didrocks> mpt: sounds to confirm the intend. Not sure if the "this one… that one" is heavy in english (it is in French), but otherwise sounds good
[14:12] <mpt> yes, needs polishin
[14:12] <mpt> g
[14:12] <didrocks> mpt: I think there should be a checkbox as well for "this computer replace the selected one" (in proper english ;))
[14:12] <mpt> didrocks, ah, so you don't have the old one hanging around in the list
[14:12] <didrocks> as it's overwriting, meaning it's the same installation or that we will never use the old one
[14:12] <didrocks> right
[14:13] <mpt> ok
[14:13] <didrocks> the most difficult part IMHO is the credential one
[14:13] <didrocks> not sure we want the ubuntu sso dialog to popup on top of ubiquity
[14:13] <cjwatson> in general installing a load of extra software in the context of the installer is going to create a bunch of bugs; we should consider reliability
[14:14] <cjwatson> perhaps stage things for installation after the first reboot or something
[14:15] <mpt> didrocks, ideally we'd embed it
[14:15] <didrocks> cjwatson: oh really? passing the list for additional installation to ubiquity is leading to issue?
[14:15] <mpt> but if we have to stage it for after first restart, then we'd either need to store the token somewhere, or ask for sign-in after the restart
[14:17] <stgraber> didrocks: we had a few problems with the upgrade method that's using apt-clone and does roughly the same thing (install a whole bunch of packages). If one of them fails to install, ubiquity tends to fail
[14:17] <didrocks> mpt: indeed or copying the token in the target
[14:17] <didrocks> stgraber: ah…
[14:18] <didrocks> yeah, that can an issue then
[14:18] <cjwatson> didrocks: we have too many bugs already about things like language-pack installation, apt-clone handling for the quasi-upgrade case, all sorts of stuff like that
[14:18] <cjwatson> the root problem really is that if the installation fails you tend to be stuffed and have to start again
[14:18] <stgraber> didrocks: it mostly happens at release time when the mirrors are overloaded
[14:18] <didrocks> hum, marking things to install isn't making things better than just starting software-center
[14:19] <cjwatson> workaroundable sometimes with "try again" type dialogs, but for this kind of complex thing it feels that pushing to post-install would be a lot less risky
[14:19] <stgraber> Ideally we could have ubiquity do the installs, have a try-again option if it fails and if that doesn't help, queue all the installs (langpacks, drivers, packages from oneconf, ...) for post-install
[14:19] <didrocks> mpt: I'm really unsure about what to do with those infos then
[14:19] <cjwatson> but then what if the install of those packages fails half-way through or something
[14:20] <stgraber> and then have a generic thing (update-manager or similar) pick that up and process any remaining install post-install
[14:20] <cjwatson> or a postinst fails and leaves the system in a busted state
[14:20] <cjwatson> all it would take would be one broken package in software-center
[14:21] <cjwatson> now admittedly this is a set of problems we have already, but sort of hidden off in a corner
[14:21] <stgraber> cjwatson: though there wouldn't be much risk running that post-install code at the end of ubiquity when we know the system is already bootable, right?
[14:21] <mpt> didrocks, ah, but if we delay asking for sign-in until the restart, then we'd have to delay asking for which computer you want to sync from until after the restart too ... otherwise we wouldn't have the list of computers to choose from.
[14:21] <didrocks> yeah, we shouldn't make it first
[14:22] <didrocks> mpt: the sign-in can be in ubiquity, then, we copy the credentials to the targeted system
[14:22] <stgraber> (as in, wouldn't be worse than running it form the user session after the first boot, result should be identical)
[14:22] <didrocks> s/first/worse
[14:22] <cjwatson> stgraber: maybe, yeah
[14:22] <cjwatson> I do hope this means the desktop team is going to work on the installer ;-)
[14:23] <didrocks> what you mean by "post-install" is the same that all the scripts we executes at the end,
[14:23] <didrocks> cjwatson: on that part, we can help some volonteers that will do the oneconf integration as their school project :)
[14:23] <mpt> A school project mucking around with an OS installer, what could possibly go wrong
[14:24]  * mpt ducks
[14:25] <didrocks> mpt: well, when I touched ubiquity for UNE and the post-intaller, I think the portion of code was definied enough to not screw everything. As most of the work is done by the oneconf backend which is already a separate process over dbus, the work done ubiquity side should be really small
[14:25] <cjwatson> gema: did you have that meeting with skaet?
[14:25] <mpt> cjwatson, the main objective is presenting the "reinstall this set of software" option at the same point as the other installation options, otherwise it's a lot less obvious. Where the rest of the process happens matters less.
[14:25] <cjwatson> mpt: *nod*
[14:26] <gema> cjwatson: yes, she want's someone else to fix the problems
[14:26] <gema> cjwatson: she's on the case
[14:26] <cjwatson> didrocks: of course that kind of arrangement can take a bit of fiddling to make work given that the installer is in a different root filesystem from where the backend would want to live
[14:29] <didrocks> cjwatson: indeed, especially in computing the diff
[14:35] <mpt> hm hm hm
[14:36] <mpt> didrocks, so will it be practical to calculate the amount of disk space required by the packages in the selected sync profile?
[14:37] <didrocks> mpt: hum, interesting, I should poke mvo about it, but yeah, should be possible
[14:37] <didrocks> mpt: also, that would mean that we install the application diff, right? (all packages manually installed) and removed what wasn't in the previous package set?
[14:38] <didrocks> (like if the previous package set had banshee, it will now remove rhythmbox and install banshee)
[14:39] <mpt> didrocks, I don't mind which way it's done. The reason I asked was so that (for example) we don't offer people the option to install Ubuntu alongside Windows, if the amount of software they had installed on Ubuntu means there isn't enough disk space to do that.
[14:42] <didrocks> mpt: yeah, makes sense, I'll ensure we will get that in
[14:42] <didrocks> (and good thinking!)
[14:55] <mpt> didrocks, what does OneConf know about each synced computer, other than (1) its hostname, (2) what software is installed, and (3) when it was last synced?
[14:56] <didrocks> mpt: the logo of it (meaning, a preview of their wallpaper in the "computer icon") but it's not uploaded yet to apps.ubuntu.com because of duplication concerns.
[14:57] <didrocks> mpt: on the (2), we have the full list of installed packages, knowing if it's marked as being "auto" installed or "manually" installed
[14:57] <didrocks> and that's about it, do you think it should know more,
[14:57] <mpt> didrocks, ooh, if we know its hostname, and you choose "[/] This computer will replace the selected one", we should default to the same hostname
[14:57] <didrocks> ?
[14:57] <didrocks> yeah, that will be pretty neat :)
[14:58] <didrocks> (if we need to know more in the future, adding fields is really trivial)
[14:58] <didrocks> without any API break
[14:58] <mpt> meeting, bbl
[15:05] <CIA-32> console-setup: cjwatson * r436 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.70ubuntu5
[15:12] <runeks> i'm trying to create a custom Ubuntu Precise live cd (with GTK3 compiled with Wayland support). for this I need to put a file in the .config folder that is in the home directory. how do I do this? I tried putting the file in /etc/xdg (because it seems to contain files that end up in ~/.config) but that didn't work.
[15:15] <stgraber> runeks: hmm, I'm a bit surprised you actually have to create something in .config that's not configurable system-wide. But #ubuntu-desktop would probably be better for that. If you want to have a file show up for every new accounts created on the system, use /etc/skel
[15:16] <runeks> stgraber: i've actually edited the .bashrc file in /etc/skel. but this ends up in the home folder. how do I make it end up in the .config folder under the home folder? simply make a .config folder in /etc/skel and put the file in there?
[15:17] <stgraber> runeks: yes
[15:18] <runeks> cool. will try that. thanks!
[15:33] <runeks> works like a charm. thanks stgraber!
[15:33] <stgraber> np
[17:37] <CIA-32> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1680 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 20101020ubuntu135
[22:37] <stgraber> bug 985919 is pretty weird... quickly checking if I can reproduce
[22:37] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 985919 in ubiquity "ubi-partman crash when network is disable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985919
[22:52] <stgraber> right, can't reproduce with Ubuntu so probably something racy or really Lubuntu specific, will see if Julien can reproduce it reliably