 Don't listen to him.  I'M the real sbalneav!
[03:45] <sbalneav_> oh, drat
[03:45] <sbalneav_> I would have made it if it hadn't have been for you pesky kids!
[03:46] <sbalneav_> Well, obviously my Scooby-doo reference fell flat. :P
[03:49] <LaserJock> sorry, we were having a discussion of nasty French hotel food in -motu
[03:49] <LaserJock> it has since devolved
[03:49] <LaserJock> ;-)
[03:49] <sbalneav_> Serves you right for eating there.  :)
[03:50] <sbalneav_> you won't make that mistake again next time, riiiiight? :)
[03:50] <sbalneav_> "Do as we do, say as we say"
[03:50] <LaserJock> "Stick with the LTSP guys"
[03:50] <LaserJock> "The only thing thin, is the clients"
[03:50] <LaserJock> ;-)
[03:50] <sbalneav_> We'll be in U.S. of A this time, so there will be thick steaks a-plenty on dinner forays.
[03:51] <bddebian> w00t
[03:51] <sbalneav_> Lobster, perhaps.
[03:52] <sbalneav_> And beer. Well.  That goes without saying.
[03:52] <sbalneav_> And for desert: Cheesecake.
[03:52] <sbalneav_> Yum
[03:52] <sbalneav_> Well, lets see if my little mod to Ogra's cdpinger works.
[03:54] <cafuego> Wheee, 210 Edubuntu CDs just arrived :-)
[03:55] <sbalneav_> 210?
[03:55] <sbalneav_> yikes!
[03:55] <cafuego> 3x70
[03:55] <cafuego> Spacial order
[03:55] <cafuego> s/a/e/
[03:55] <sbalneav_> SOMEONE's doing a big install, I'd say.
[03:56] <bimberi> cafuego: for SFD?
[03:56] <cafuego> They're going here: http://www.acec2006.info/
[03:56] <cafuego> bimberi: Nope
[03:57] <cafuego> Kattekrab is speaking at that ^^ conference.
[03:57] <bimberi> ah yes, of course :)
[03:57] <cafuego> So she can hand the CDs out to teachers directly.
[04:47] <sbalneav_> 4
[05:57] <sbalneav_> Man, when I get something working late at night, and there's no-one here to share it with, I shed a little tear.
[05:57] <sbalneav_> ;_;
[05:58] <sbalneav_> :)
[05:58] <bimberi_> :)
[05:58] <sbalneav_> cdrom support on thin client is now officially AWESOME
[05:58] <sbalneav_> memory sticks --> DONE
[05:58] <sbalneav_> cdroms --> DONE
[05:59] <sbalneav_> floppies --> COMIN' RIIIIGHT UP
[06:00] <bimberi_> fantastic!
[06:00] <bimberi_> i see lots of questions about local devices
[06:01] <sbalneav_> ogra's cdpinger was great, but it had one or two TINY bugs in it, which I've now squashed.
[06:02] <sbalneav_> Well, I'm an "upstream" developer for LTSP, and I developed the localdevice support there.
[06:02] <sbalneav_> It's going to be even better un Ubuntu.
[06:02] <sbalneav_> So, I guess I'm kicking my own butt :)
[06:02] <bimberi_> lol
[06:02] <LaserJock> hehe
[06:23] <LaserJock> sbalneav_: yo, imbrandon's got a question for you
[06:23] <LaserJock> ;-)
[06:23] <sbalneav_> certainly
[06:23] <imbrandon> heh
[06:23] <imbrandon> [23:21]  <imbrandon> do you know if a edubuntu server ( ltsp ) can server a ppc and amd64 client from a i386 ?
[06:23] <sbalneav_> the answer to that would be "yes"
[06:24] <sbalneav_> What you'd have to do is boot a ppc client on ubuntu,
[06:24] <imbrandon> cool ok, was just about to try it but all the "thin clients" i would use would be ppc, and all servers i would use woudl be i386 ;)
[06:24] <sbalneav_> do the "ltsp-build-standalone" on it,
[06:25] <sbalneav_> then transfer the /opt/ltsp/ppc dir to /opt/ltsp on the 386 server.
[06:25] <imbrandon> ok so on the ppc load a full ubuntu ?
[06:25] <sbalneav_> just one.  To allow you to build the ppc tree.
[06:25] <imbrandon> ahh ok /me listens
[06:25] <sbalneav_> After that, and when you transfer over the ppc dir to the server, they can all net boot.
[06:26] <imbrandon> cool sounds simple enough
[06:26] <sbalneav_> See, you can't actually BUILD the ltsp chroot on a 386 server because it can't run the ppc bins.
[06:26] <imbrandon> right
[06:26] <sbalneav_> But, if you build it on a ppc, then transfer it over, from there on in, you're just serving it out with nfs
[06:26] <sbalneav_> so, it doesn't matter.
[06:26] <imbrandon> but if i put the ltsp server on a amd64 i could build both x64 and i386
[06:27] <sbalneav_> Yes.  you should be able to do that.
[06:27] <imbrandon> cuz really its just chroots
[06:27] <imbrandon> cool ok
[06:27] <sbalneav_> yep.
[06:27] <imbrandon> ok one last "dumb question"
[06:27] <sbalneav_> sorry, did you /msg me?  I'm on my alter ego here, and not authenticaed on this id, so I dont get /msg
[06:28] <imbrandon> i have tes to get ltsp to work yes so i'm trying the edubuntu way since it all works out of the box pretty much
[06:28] <imbrandon> nope i dident
[06:28] <imbrandon> someoen might have but not me
[06:28] <sbalneav_> ah, ok, just wondering why i didn't see your question.
[06:28] <sbalneav_> anway, go on
[06:29] <imbrandon> ahh i havent asked yet , and the first one i was talking to Laser_away in -motu ;)
[06:29] <imbrandon> ok anyhow ummm *thinks*
[06:29] <imbrandon> ohh the netboot thing
[06:29] <imbrandon> ok i load a enu server up and hop on an i386 with netbot nic
[06:30] <imbrandon> it should find it ok without conflicting with my router ?
[06:30] <imbrandon> or do i need to do the dns trickery
[06:30] <sbalneav_> Is your router handing out dhcp addresses?
[06:30] <imbrandon> like with plain ltsp ?
[06:30] <imbrandon> yea its a netgear cable modem router wireless all in one job that i kinda have to keep dhcp on becouse
[06:31] <imbrandon> i have some non pc devices that need dhcp from it
[06:31] <imbrandon> i think that was my main hickup in the past to useing ltsp
[06:31] <imbrandon> i was hoping edubuntu took care of that somehow
[06:32] <sbalneav_> If you've got something else handing out dhcp addresses, then dhcp trickery will be a must.  However, dhcp trickery can be avoided by either a) using edubuntu to hand out the dhcp addresses, or b) installing a second net card, and hooking the thin clients up to that.
[06:32] <sbalneav_> Nope, that's pretty much impossible to just "magically" avoid :)
[06:32] <imbrandon> hrm well hrm .....
[06:32] <imbrandon> heh yea i figured that
[06:33] <imbrandon> heh ok .... *thinks* sorry still a bit rusty at this
[06:33] <sbalneav_> dhcp's easy.  There's both here and #ltsp to help you with it.  Not like we haven't helped, oh, say, a few THOUSAND people with it before :)
[06:33] <imbrandon> give me a some code and package i'm in heaven , give me a dhcp server and i need a 12pack of beer to even look at the conf LOL
[06:33] <imbrandon> hehe true
[06:33] <sbalneav_> meh, I code dhcpd.conf stanzas in my sleep.
[06:34] <imbrandon> i bet ;)
[06:34] <imbrandon> ok i'm gonna go try to do this with letting edubuntu hand out the ip addresses, mind if i pick you brain for one more minute
[06:35] <imbrandon> with a theoetical setup to make sure i dont have any major flaws in my thinkgin
[06:35] <imbrandon> so first i turn dhcp off on the router and let it jsut be a router .......
[06:35] <imbrandon> i can set all my pc static for now no probs
[06:36] <imbrandon> the non pc devices can get an ip from edubuntu still correct
[06:36] <imbrandon> and use the router as the gateway
[06:36] <sbalneav_> yep
[06:36] <sbalneav_> no problem
[06:36] <imbrandon> k cool, i think that should work then
[06:36] <sbalneav_> Eminently workable :)
[06:36] <imbrandon> ;)
[06:37] <imbrandon> do you konw if the apple nic's in ibooks ( orinoco drivers ) will netboot, or will i have to have some kinda skel system on them
[06:37] <imbrandon> to boot
[06:37] <imbrandon> or is google my friend on that one ;)
[06:38] <sbalneav_> Um, that I don't know.
[06:38] <imbrandon> np i can grab that via google, but say i do have to have a skel system setup for them
[06:38] <imbrandon> can that be generated from the ubuntu install ?
[06:38] <sbalneav_> I *just* bought a mac ppc a week or two ago to start testing things, and to be honest, I haven't even had a chance to boot it yet.
[06:38] <imbrandon> heh np
[06:39] <sbalneav_> imbrandon: yep.  In fact, if you simply install edubuntu-ppc, it'll do it for you.
[06:39] <imbrandon> i'm guessing i will becouse i would like to use the wireless in them
[06:39] <imbrandon> nice
[06:40] <imbrandon> so there is a like a "client" option in the install ? forgive my ignorance i'm very new to ltsp but not linux in general ( i'm a MOTU among other things )
[06:40] <imbrandon> heh
[06:40] <sbalneav_> Ah, you want wireless netboot?  heh
[06:41] <sbalneav_> there's a LOT of people who want that.
[06:41] <imbrandon> if possible heh
[06:41] <sbalneav_> Not possible :)
[06:41] <imbrandon> maybe i can help try and figure out a way ;)
[06:41] <imbrandon> heh
[06:41] <sbalneav_> No wireless netboot card currently netboots :(
[06:41] <imbrandon> who know but no ammount of questions are gonna prepare me so i guess i'm gonna dive in and chekc back if i have probs ;)
[06:42] <sbalneav_> yep.
[06:42] <imbrandon> thanks for the quick start though ;)
[06:42] <sbalneav_> Not at all.
[06:43] <imbrandon> yea a wireless card that netbooted would sell like hotcakes i bet ;)
[06:43] <bimberi_> imbrandon: i think you can hold down the N key at boot to make (some) Macs netboot (non wireless)
[06:43] <imbrandon> bimberi_: cool thanks i'll try that
[06:44] <imbrandon> yea it has both, but i would RATRHER use the wireless but that might be a no-go atleaste for now ;)
[06:45] <imbrandon> the 3 i have here are semi older g3 800mhz 640mb ram iBooks so they may or may not but i'll try it ;)
[06:45] <imbrandon> and the "server" is gonna be a amd64x2 4400+ ( running in 32bit mode )
[06:46] <imbrandon> so it "should" work out ok ;)
[06:46] <imbrandon> hrm how is that gonna work though, i thought the apps ran on the server, i guess they do and are piped to the local X running
[06:46] <imbrandon> so X and the kernel + drivers are all that needs to be ppc ?
[06:47] <sbalneav_> Well, X, kernel, drivers, plus a whole buncg of glue
[06:47] <imbrandon> hehe yea i'm generizing a bit but
[06:48] <imbrandon> yea the WM like gnome/kde + apps run from the server though
[06:48] <imbrandon> and are piped
[06:48] <sbalneav_> yep, that's how X works.
[06:49] <sbalneav_> The X calls are networkable, so an x89 server can display on a ppc client no problem
[06:49] <imbrandon> cool ok, yea like i said still kinda new to ltsp , tried it on other distro's before i started deving for kubuntu but never got it to work, maybe today is my lucky day
[07:01] <jsgotangco> we dont doubt the demigod of LTSP
[07:02] <imbrandon> ;)
[07:16] <sbalneav> jsgotangco: :)
[07:19] <highvoltage> mhuhahahaha
[07:21] <jsgotangco> there goes one of the acolytes
[07:28] <highvoltage> acolytes?
[07:28] <highvoltage> what's that?
[07:29] <sbalneav> highvoltage: One who attends; an assistant. "With such chiefs, and with
[07:29] <sbalneav>       James and John as acolytes." --Motley.
[07:30] <sbalneav> It has a religous connotation.
[07:32] <highvoltage> aah
[07:38] <sbalneav> Long fruitful night, but now I need sleep.
[07:38] <sbalneav> night all
[08:29] <RichEd> pygi :)
[08:44] <pygi> RichEd, what I did this time? :)
[08:45] <RichEd> ? nothing bad springs to mind ;)
[08:46] <jsgotangco> RichEd: just for info, I will be doing a presentation to GILAS (www.gilas.org) regarding Edubuntu on the 30th. Gina hooked me up for this
[08:46] <pygi> RichEd, o good, for the first time in history ^_^
[08:46] <pygi> RichEd, o, btw. you gonna visit Ubuntu conf. in Hungary next month?
[08:46] <pygi> one of my presentations is about Edubuntu, ofcourse
[08:52] <RichEd> morning guys ...
[08:53] <jsgotangco> :)
[08:53] <jsgotangco> RichEd: really they're *so* excited about htis
[08:53] <RichEd> pygi: would love to ... but that will need to be next year, same time, same place, busy with foundation building blocks in this phase
[08:54] <pygi> RichEd, ah, oki :'(
[08:54] <highvoltage> morning RichEd
[08:54] <RichEd> jsgotangco: as per all my conversation threads, I am excited & supportive ... you are my community resource main main #1
[08:54] <RichEd> main man #1 :P
[08:55] <RichEd> hi highvoltage
[08:55] <jsgotangco> if we make a dent on GILAS this would be big
[08:55] <jsgotangco> afaik, they are in bind at the moment with MS Phil
[08:55] <jsgotangco> there seems to be a stalemate
[08:55] <RichEd> any news on the "personal full time association" opportunity ?
[08:56] <jsgotangco> she called me up today she said she'll get back to me this week
[08:56] <RichEd> jsgotangco: I will make time to help you with the presentation, or find people or resources to assist
[08:56] <RichEd> we need to show support for you ... and I *WILL* make that happen
[08:57] <jsgotangco> i have to fix this up by month's end or else i'll get screwed by my current work
[08:57] <RichEd> MS stalemate ? how ? what ? more ?
[08:57] <jsgotangco> well they seem to have some issues on distributing the software then supporting it
[08:58] <RichEd> jsgotangco: tomorrow, 9:00-10:00 am my time belongs to you on this topic
[08:58] <jsgotangco> i dunno the exact details, GILAS isn't actually a well advertised initiative
[08:58] <RichEd> it is about to go 9:00 am for me now, to give you a time reference
[08:58] <jsgotangco> ahh okay
[08:58] <jsgotangco> 3pm here
[08:58] <RichEd> so chalk it up in your diary ...
[08:58] <jsgotangco> okay
[08:59] <jsgotangco> we can do skype if you want
[08:59] <RichEd> we'll get a private window open, and research chat side by side ...
[08:59] <jsgotangco> ok
[08:59] <RichEd> skype would be good ... i need to get set up ... can you send me a quick start pointer ?
[09:00] <RichEd> i'm on ADSL so b/w is fine ... just need to know where to register / download etc.
[09:00] <bimberi_> !skype
[09:00] <ubotu> To install Skype on Ubuntu, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Skype To record on Skype, check: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SkypeRecordingHowto
[09:00] <RichEd> pygi ... how far is hungary from georgia
[09:00] <bimberi_> 'morning RichEd :)
[09:00] <jsgotangco> http://www.skype.com/download/
[09:01] <RichEd> that uboto is a most helpful bot ! it seems to do word reconition & rapid response !
[09:01] <RichEd> recognition <- reconition
[09:01] <jsgotangco> you can grab the Debian package
[09:01] <RichEd> thanks ubuto ;)
[09:01] <RichEd> hi bimberi_ : do we get beaten by you or the men in black this week (sobbe)
[09:02] <bimberi_> RichEd: it's our turn up against the all blacks this week
[09:03] <bimberi_> the wallabies trained here in Canberra this week, probably because it's colder, to acclimatise
[09:03] <bimberi_> hehe
[09:07] <jsgotangco> cricket?
[09:07] <RichEd> no rugby ... or in recent weeks, more like buggery
[09:08] <RichEd> my team is playing 2 levels below badly
[09:09] <bimberi_> RichEd: ubotu is a bot - i triggered it with !skype
[09:09] <bimberi_> !botsnack
[09:09] <ubotu> Yum!
[09:10] <RichEd> ah ... at first i thought it was a person ... then for a moment I though it actually did grammar recognition :)
[09:10] <jsgotangco> !die
[09:10] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about die - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[09:10] <RichEd> !springbokrugby
[09:10] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about springbokrugby - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[09:11] <RichEd> :)
[09:11] <RichEd> !Sorry
[09:11] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about Sorry - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[09:12] <jsgotangco> hmmm epiphany took over my desktop lol
[09:12] <bimberi_> RichEd: you can actually /msg it - btw it ignores after a certain number of bad queries :)
[09:13] <jsgotangco> RichEd: this looks like partly useful
[09:13] <jsgotangco> http://www.tsf.org.za/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=246&Itemid=33
[09:13] <RichEd> you mean so you can ask in a private window without appearing too stoopid ?
[09:17] <RichEd> jsgotangco: i'm going to shower and will be back to give you my concentration for 20 mins
[09:18] <RichEd> i'm also seeing highvoltage & willvdl for lunch today ... so will ask them for some face-to-face help with references ... there must be something in the TSF / tuXlabs arsenal on the topic
[09:18] <jsgotangco> thanks
[09:19] <bimberi_> RichEd: lol, yes that's right
[09:27] <highvoltage> on which topic? WSD?
[09:29] <RichEd> highvoltage: jsgotangco needs case study reference on how the introduction of IT has improved academic results
[09:29] <RichEd> any reference material that will support a presentation to a foundation in Philippines on why computes should be funded into education
[09:31] <RichEd> jsgotangco: i've got a conversation happening with the Canonical / Intel partner manager ... and his recent mail says that PRC is on their short term radar
[09:31] <jsgotangco> PRC
[09:31] <jsgotangco> china?
[09:31] <RichEd> PRC is Pacific Rim Countries, no ? and that's you no ?
[09:32] <highvoltage> ah
[09:32] <jsgotangco> ohh
[09:32] <jsgotangco> well its all known as People's Republic of China ;)
[09:32] <jsgotangco> there's East Asia and ASEAN
[09:32] <RichEd> oh ... I better check to see what he means by his abbreviation ...
[09:33] <RichEd> But we are talking about Vietnam now, and that area, so you are within that sort of geographicasl region
[09:35] <jsgotangco> that's part of SEA (South East Asia)
[09:36] <RichEd> yep ... this is his territory focus: Vietnam, Latin America, PRC, and Southeast Asia.
[09:39] <RichEd> jsgotangco: google search on [vietnam phillipines]  tells me: "Throughout the past week more than one million people were evacuated due to Typhoon Chanchu in China, the Philippines and Vietnam"
[09:39] <RichEd> so you are in the same bowl so to speak ?
[09:40] <RichEd> anyway ... what I can say now is that there is some growing co-operation between around Intel Education programme & Ubuntu
[09:40] <RichEd> so we may be able to add value above the o/s into your pitch to Gina ...
[09:40] <jsgotangco> RichEd: the typhoon path usually starts in Philippines then goes to Taiwan or China
[09:41] <jsgotangco> RichEd: i just saw this http://business.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/07/10/2115242&tid=37
[09:42] <jsgotangco> http://anycec.org/main/node/668?PHPSESSID=087555993070778a7c912ae21859116a
[09:43] <jsgotangco> this is exactly what were looking for
[09:46] <RichEd> jsgotangco: quick, what it what link on Gina ? i have a very short email time window ... got the intel guys attention now
[09:47] <jsgotangco> ah wait
[09:47] <cbx33> Mornin all
[09:47] <RichEd> and confirm ... she is a director of http://www.abs-cbnfoundation.com/ ?
[09:47] <cbx33> what a great meeting yesterday :D
[09:48] <jsgotangco> RichEd:
[09:48] <jsgotangco> RichEd: yes
[09:48] <jsgotangco> http://www.planetphilippines.com/archives/2005/jul1-15-05/current/features_current/feature3.html
[09:48] <RichEd> hello cbx33 : that meeting with highvoltage & willvdl happens today. case study & advocacy will be on the topic list
[09:48] <cbx33> exshellent
[09:48] <cbx33> what time?
[09:48] <RichEd> lunch time
[09:48] <cbx33> cool
[09:49] <cbx33> after that will we know a little more about how to proceed with the packs?
[09:49] <jsgotangco> RichEd: http://www.newsflash.org/2004/02/sb/sb003803.htm
[09:50] <jsgotangco> RichEd: she's from a media tycoon clan
[09:57] <RichEd> cbx33: we'll start a discussion which will lead to a proj plan ... and I now commit to agree to a timeline & deadline by end of tomorrow.
[09:57] <RichEd> so that will be a stake in the ground, where we can haggle over details, but non-negotiable that is it going forward
[09:58] <RichEd> towards a conclusion I mean (not just wanderin' along somewhere)
[10:00] <cbx33> good
[10:16] <RichEd> jsgotangco: see email ... 1st baby step ... but support for you :)
[10:22] <jsgotangco> wooooo
[10:22] <jsgotangco> thanks!!!!
[10:25] <jsgotangco> "kitty"
[10:25] <jsgotangco> hahaha
[10:26] <jsgotangco> man if i get to move in this organization i have to fix up that website
[10:35] <RichEd> see the next email ... lots of resonance ... if you play this info right ... you'll be the 3way man on the ground for CBS & Ununtu & Canonical ralationship manager
[10:35] <RichEd> talk to me before you spread anything. we'll tie it up peoperly to server all of our aims
[10:35] <RichEd> properly to serve
[10:35] <jsgotangco> sever lol
[10:36] <jsgotangco> thanks im sending email now regarding some news i found
[11:37] <jsgotangco> i gotta go
[11:37] <jsgotangco> ciao
[12:24] <valkyrie> hi
[01:04] <rodarvus> good morning
[01:11] <bimberi> hi rodarvus
[01:11] <rodarvus> hi bimberi
[01:12] <bimberi> wow the local device support (in ogra's email of a few minutes ago) sounds fantastic
[01:14] <ogra> its really sexy :)
[01:14] <bimberi> sbalneav was very happy earlier :)
[01:14] <ogra> well, he broke a lot tonight :P
[01:15] <bimberi> lol
[01:15] <ogra> but i'm already fixing ... he also improved a lot ;)
[01:17] <ogra> ouch ... that mail went to the wrong list ...
[01:19] <bimberi> ogra: -users? that's ok isn't it? or are you worried about expectations
[01:19] <rodarvus> ogra, putting a default lts.conf in edubuntu edgy ?
[01:20] <ogra> rodarvus, yes, we discussed it yesterday in the meeting
[01:20] <rodarvus> ogra, yes, I remember :)
[01:20] <ogra> its one step in the K12 direction
[01:21] <rodarvus> I was asking if this is the email you were referring to (which you said you sent to the wrong mailing list)
[01:21] <rodarvus> but anyhow
[01:21] <ogra> together with dchpd.conf autogeneration and localdev that makes it possible for us to compete feature wise
[01:21] <rodarvus> the defaults seem just fine
[01:21] <ogra> great :)
[01:21] <rodarvus> SWAP is the one likely getting changed the most
[01:22] <ogra> well, we need a default size you can set anywhere
[01:22] <rodarvus> we could think about tweaking it automatically (without user interaction), but this is surely stuff for edgy+1
[01:22] <ogra> err
[01:22] <rodarvus> ogra, yeah. 64mb is surely a good choice
[01:22] <ogra> but thast the target of the fully automatic swapserver spec
[01:22] <ogra> no user interaction at all
[01:22] <rodarvus> ogra, yes
[01:23] <rodarvus> but what I'm mentioning is changing the default setup automatically
[01:23] <ogra> hmm
[01:23] <rodarvus> (if this is part of the spec  I missed it and need to stufy it with more care :) )
[01:24] <rodarvus> ogra, considering disk space on the server, memory setup for clients, type of applications you are going to run, etc
[01:24] <ogra> right
[01:24] <ogra> but it should be an adjustable value ...
[01:24] <rodarvus> indeed
[01:25] <ogra> either thrugh a config on the server (/etc/nbd-something.conf) or (better) triggered from the client, so you can set individual swap sizes for different clients
[01:26] <ogra> its one option more to use in the clients swapon code ... nbd-server needs just to pick it up for the automatic swapfile creation
[01:26] <rodarvus> nice, that was my next question :)
[01:26] <rodarvus> (if you could setup swap sizes different for each client)
[01:26] <ogra> you should be able to ...
[01:27] <ogra> indeed that doesnt need to be in the initial implementation ... a fixed size is fine in the beginning
[01:27] <ogra> but we offer per client settings in the lts.conf ... so we should keep it in mind :)
[01:27] <rodarvus> *nods*
[01:34] <bimberi> ah, _that_ email (only just got it :/ )
[01:34] <jsgotangco> wow my daughter counted to 200 without failure
[01:34] <jsgotangco> for a 4 1/2 year old that seems impressive
[01:35] <ogra> totally
[01:35] <bimberi> wow, it is!
[01:35] <jsgotangco> i started her teaching to use an abacus last week
[01:38] <jsgotangco> heh im in awe as well
[02:17] <lucasvo> ogra: you are the maintainer of the -user list, right? could you please find out why I ge tmy mails twice? it's<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:10] <RichEd> very quiet here again today ... hmmmmm
[03:14] <jsgotangco> hey
[03:14] <jsgotangco> ive been looking at the websites
[03:16] <RichEd> hey ... what do you think ?
[03:18] <RichEd> if you were pitching to a lightweight organisation on your own .. then I would say that Intel would say ... ho-hum ... another plea for help
[03:20] <RichEd> but seeing as it is (Ed)Ubuntu + a media related organisation with exposure possibilities & a good philanthropic track record ... in a country where they have alrady donme some good work ...
[03:21] <RichEd> I am sure we can put something together that serves the aims of all 3 parties ?
[03:21] <RichEd> --- Edubuntu boot CD question --- from Marilize ------------------------
[03:22] <RichEd> Does the current LTS 6.06 allow a live CD boot option ? Or only an install ?
[03:22] <jsgotangco> RichEd: interestingly the people i will meet on the 30th are the heads of the two biggest foundations
[03:22] <jsgotangco> RichEd: the current LTS is only install (even the one on shipit)
[03:22] <jsgotangco> RichEd: we have a liveCD option but only for workstation
[03:22] <jsgotangco> its because we ship a server solution primarily
[03:22] <jsgotangco> rather than a desktop one
[03:22] <RichEd> The web site says "includes a Live CD" which I think is a remnant from the 2 CD pack.
[03:23] <jsgotangco> is that from our website?
[03:23] <RichEd> And people are moaning .....
[03:23] <RichEd> Ahhhh .... Ohhhhhhhh ..... Whine .....
[03:23] <RichEd> So I guess we must correct the site then.
[03:24] <jsgotangco> if its on our website i can change it
[03:24] <jsgotangco> (edubuntu.org)
[03:24] <jsgotangco> i was planning on doing a review a few days ago after i made some minor typo corrections but never got to
[03:25] <RichEd> will get the link from marilize now ... tx
[03:25] <jsgotangco> yes please im in the cms now
[03:27] <RichEd> asking ... waiting ...
[03:27] <jsgotangco> hhehe
[03:28] <RichEd> send me these names : <jsgotangco> RichEd: interestingly the people i will meet on the 30th are the heads of the two biggest foundations
[03:28] <jsgotangco> gina lopez of abs-cbn and vicky garchitorena of ayala foundation (for gilas)
[03:29] <jsgotangco> gina hooked us up with vicky
[03:29] <jsgotangco> because of gilas
[03:29] <RichEd> i've just got the names & email addressess of the business development managers for this region at intel ...
[03:30] <jsgotangco> well i think intel is part of gilas
[03:30] <RichEd> i'll drop your meeting names in the intro mail ... who knows ... maybe on the off chance they will want to join you ?
[03:30] <jsgotangco> so our meeting with gilas is preliminary and introduce edubuntu/ubuntu
[03:31] <RichEd> please can you mail me with as much deatil as you can ?
[03:32] <RichEd> what's gilas, what's ayala, why are they joining you, and how do you mean intel is part of gilas ?
[03:32] <RichEd> REQUEST:
 http://www.edubuntu.com/Download
 it should not say Live CD.....for shipping
 thanks
[03:32] <RichEd> END REQUEST
[03:32] <RichEd> thanks ...
[03:32] <RichEd> out for 30 mins ...
[03:33] <jsgotangco> okay thanks
[03:34] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: kewl :)
[03:34] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: slacker
[03:35] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: :(
[03:35] <highvoltage> i prefer it if you call me a slacker
[03:35] <highvoltage> *joke*
[03:35] <highvoltage> :)
[03:35] <jsgotangco> RichEd: GILAS is a privately funded project to connect to the internet the 5,000+ public schools in the country
[03:36] <jsgotangco> RichEd: its a 5 year project i think its on its 2nd year and only 1.200+ has been connected
[03:37] <jsgotangco> let's also add a point release annoucement even if its a bit late
[03:38] <jsgotangco> we shouldn't even have to link to cdimage since this is more of the developmental download links
[03:47] <highvoltage> bye!
[03:47] <jsgotangco> ok the page is done
[03:50] <jsgotangco> RichEd: please check if its ok now
[04:10] <RichEd> marilize will test ... will let you know ...
[04:10] <RichEd> soon
[04:18] <jsgotangco> yeah
[04:18] <jsgotangco> i also added news of the point relase
[04:21] <jsgotangco> ahh fudge
[04:37] <sbalneav> Morning all!
[04:37] <sbalneav> Hey ogra!
[04:37] <bddebian> Heya
[04:37] <jsgotangco> hi
[04:37] <bddebian> Hi sbalneav
[04:37] <RichEd> gun tag herr grawert
[04:37] <sbalneav> hey bddebian jsgotangco RichEd
[04:38] <RichEd> hi sbalneav ... & cbx33
[04:38] <cbx33> hi RichEd
[04:39] <bddebian> Hi jsgotangco, RichEd, cbx33 :-)
[04:39] <cbx33> hi bddebian
[04:40] <jsgotangco> hey
[04:42] <ogra> hey sbalneav
[04:42] <sbalneav> hey!
[04:43] <sbalneav> Sorry, I started the cdpinger from the startup, but what I was REALLY thinking was starting it from udev, when a cdrom is created
[04:43] <ogra> you forgot to close the (f) filehandle in cdpinger btw :)
[04:43] <sbalneav> but I couldn't think of the udev rule :(
[04:43] <ogra> has funny effects since you open a new f ever 3 seconds
[04:43] <ogra> *every
[04:44] <ogra> my client dies after some time with a "too many open files" error on the console
[04:45] <ogra> hmm, an udev rule ...
[04:45] <ogra> do we know that the blockdevice is a cdrom ?
[04:45] <ogra> ah, yes, indeed we do
[04:45] <ogra> thats trivial ... we can at least start it from the add_fstab script
[04:46] <ogra> i think i hand over the device type anyway already, let me look
[04:47] <ogra> LABEL=$(echo ${ID_BUS}${ID_TYPE}-$1|tr " " "_")
[04:47] <ogra> right
[04:48] <ogra> so if ${ID_TYPE} = cdrom we just start a cdpinger
[04:49] <sbalneav> that's what I was thinking.
[04:49] <sbalneav> then, if there's NO cdrom in the system, you're not running a pinger.
[04:49] <ogra> its just not easy to stop it ;)
[04:49] <ogra> at least in case of multiple cdroms
[04:49] <ogra> you cant just kill all of them ...
[04:50] <ogra> i dont want to do uglyy grepping stuff through the processlist ...
[04:50] <cbx33> ogra, Iwas looking at the ACL
[04:50] <sbalneav> Hmmm.
[04:50] <cbx33> for the scp
[04:51] <ogra> but even if you write a pid file, you wont know which one is right without looking in the processlist
[04:51] <cbx33> from what I can see there are no restrictions on who can run scp
[04:51] <sbalneav> I think I bypassed the check symlink thing that you were doing every pass.  We could just re-position that, and if the symlink goes away, we just exit!
[04:51] <sbalneav> howzzt?
[04:51] <ogra> cbx33, they are in scp itself, it doesnt start up with uid!=0
[04:51] <cbx33> hmmm
[04:52] <cbx33> I'll have to check that
[04:52] <cbx33> the server side works great
[04:52] <sbalneav> pitti's got a few more requests :)
[04:52] <cbx33> I have an ACL working
[04:52] <sbalneav> so I need to do that today :)
[04:52] <ogra> i lie the idea of dynamically strating it better though :)
[04:52] <ogra> *like
[04:52] <sbalneav> yeah, if they don't have a cdrom, no sense using up the ram.
[04:53] <sbalneav> simple and clean.  I'm really linking this implementation.
[04:53] <ogra> yeah
[04:53] <ogra> it gets better every day ;)
[04:53] <ogra> additionally to being sexy in the beginning ;)
[04:53] <ogra> *already
[04:54] <sbalneav> Well, we have the two sexiest developers in Linux working on it, so how could it fail?
[04:55] <bddebian> heh
[04:56] <ogra> :)
[04:57] <sbalneav> 3)'s the biggie.  Any idears on that one?
[04:57] <ogra> damned ... the udev script wont work this way ...
[04:58] <sbalneav> verdampt?
[04:58] <ogra> yeah
[04:58] <ogra> the device wond be called cdrom ... so we cant use the symlink
[04:59] <ogra> at least fro usb devices you get scdX
[04:59] <sbalneav> ah, I'm already talking with keybuk about that, we've got the same problems with floppies.
[05:00] <sbalneav> I think there's a udev magical bit where you can pass the symlink name instead of the kernel name.
[05:01] <sbalneav> if nothing else we could do a RUN+="cdpinger cdrom%n"
[05:03] <ogra> have a look at 60-symlink.rules
[05:03] <ogra> will a 65 script override that ?
[05:03] <sbalneav> yes. should, that's what keybuk recommended.
[05:03] <ogra> oh, ah
[05:03] <ogra> heh
[05:04] <ogra> ENV{ID_CDROM}=="?*",            SYMLINK+="cdrom"
[05:04] <ogra> that means that the symlink will always point to the most recent created device if i'm not wrong
[05:04] <sbalneav> right
[05:05] <ogra> which would mean its completely unreliable anyway
[05:05] <sbalneav> If we wanted separate ones, we'd wand SYMLINK+="cdrom%n"
[05:05] <sbalneav> Which would give us cdrom0 cdrom1, etc
[05:05] <ogra> yep
[05:05] <sbalneav> which would still work with g-v-m, and solve all the problems.
[05:05] <ogra> i wonder why the script doesnt do that yet already
[05:06] <ogra> looks buggy
[05:07] <jsgotangco> the 13th planet?
[05:07] <cbx33> anyone who has bought a tosh laptop will have seen that plastic on the top
[05:07] <cbx33> that peals off
[05:07] <jsgotangco> yeah okay
[05:07] <cbx33> it;s quite sticky and static
[05:07] <jsgotangco> uh huh
[05:07] <cbx33> if you put 15-20 sheets of that together
[05:07] <cbx33> it's like flamin kevlar
[05:07] <cbx33> and extremely light
[05:07] <cbx33> I tried to stab a screwdriver through it
[05:08] <cbx33> seriously full force
[05:08] <cbx33> didn't get through
[05:08] <RichEd> jsgotangco: link looks fine ... thanks
[05:08] <cbx33> that's pretty tough stuff when in multiple sheets.....quite flexible too :p
[05:08] <jsgotangco> okay so you're saying let's buy a lot of toshiba laptops and use them plastics to create a DIY protection suit
[05:08] <jsgotangco> RichEd: cheers
[05:09] <cbx33> jsgotangco, exactly
[05:09] <jsgotangco> nice we'll be able to replace ogra's roof with toshiba laptops as well
[05:09] <cbx33> heheh
[05:11] <sbalneav> ogra: why don't we just handle the direct name, and just have cdpinger create directories like cdrom%n, and just scan the directory for the first available free n?
[05:12] <ogra> sounds like the best option :/
[05:12] <sbalneav> so, we se scd[whatever] . and we look through /tmp/drives.  If there's no cdrom0, then create it, if there is, then create cdrom1, etc etc/
[05:12] <cbx33> ogra, the implementation of the scp dbus I found a problem with
[05:12] <cbx33> got a sec?
[05:12] <sbalneav> shouldn't be that much extra work.
[05:13] <ogra> no but  its an ugly limitation i wouldt have expected
[05:13] <ogra> cbx33, shoot
[05:13] <cbx33> a) does the server know when a message has completed?
[05:13] <ogra> why should it need to ?
[05:13] <cbx33> b) what happens if two people send a request from scp at the same ich time
[05:14] <sbalneav> yeah, I wasn't aware that %n was so flakey a number.
[05:14] <cbx33> how shorta poll time should we have?
[05:14] <cbx33> and should messages have timeout periods?
[05:14] <ogra> the second instalce should fail to connect, that needs internal handling in scp
[05:14] <cbx33> ahh
[05:14] <ogra> it shouldnt even start up
[05:14] <cbx33> ok
[05:15] <cbx33> so you're not even contemplating that two versions could be running at once
[05:15] <cbx33> I was thinking of having a messaging bus with incrementing message numbers so the client can see which messages it has read
[05:15] <ogra> exactly
[05:15] <cbx33> and have a TTL on the message
[05:16] <ogra> its limited to a single ltsp server anyway
[05:16] <ogra> i dont think you need message numbers
[05:17] <ogra> the client should just listen (poll every n secs) for a message from the namespace ...
[05:17] <ogra> if a list message comes and it finds $USER in there, it will accept the next message as well (which should be a command message)
[05:18] <cbx33> how long till the mesage is deleted?
[05:18] <ogra> if theer doesnt come a second message after a certain time (5 secs or so) it starts to listen to "list" messages again
[05:18] <cbx33> hmmm
[05:19] <ogra> some seconds whould suffice for all clients to pick it up
[05:19] <cbx33> how does the client know it's just done a message?
[05:19] <ogra> *should
[05:19] <cbx33> and not to do the same message again
[05:19] <ogra> why shoudlnt it ?
[05:19] <cbx33> ??
[05:19] <cbx33> if some one puts exec firefox in the queue
[05:19] <ogra> if i click a second time on execute it should execute a second time
[05:19] <cbx33> of course it should
[05:20] <cbx33> but how does the mesasge get cleared from the queue?
[05:20] <cbx33> or fomr the bus
[05:20] <cbx33> the scp server deletes it after a certain amount of time
[05:20] <cbx33> ?
[05:20] <cbx33> it can't just sit there, otherwise the client will keep acting on it?
[05:20] <ogra> for example ... doesnt dbus have a ttl mechanism ?
[05:20] <cbx33> not at the level we are using
[05:21] <cbx33> some of the things you wrote were extremely low level
[05:21] <ogra> then delete it after n seconds
[05:21] <cbx33> and we don;t need to worry about
[05:21] <cbx33> but then the poll time needs to match that exactly !!
[05:21] <cbx33> if it's under the command can be run twice
[05:21] <ogra> well, mdz and iwj wanted it like that, i found it overkill as well ;)
[05:21] <cbx33> if it's over it could get skipped
[05:22] <cbx33> ogra, can I propose another system?
[05:22] <ogra> sure
[05:22] <cbx33> well,
[05:22] <cbx33> I think a message queue, with a ttl on each message is a lot better,
[05:22] <cbx33> each message has an incremented number
[05:23] <cbx33> and the client just keeps count of what the last number it acted on was
[05:23] <ogra> ok
[05:23] <cbx33> if a message appears that applies to it, that is greater than the last count, run it
[05:23] <cbx33> if not ... ignore it
[05:23] <ogra> but the messages must disappear from the bus anyway
[05:23] <cbx33> yes
[05:23] <cbx33> after the TTL
[05:24] <cbx33> I'm just thinking this part of the system has to be pretty stable
[05:24] <cbx33> if it crashes teachers lose control etc
[05:24] <ogra> the message it acts on must be listmessagenumber+1
[05:24] <cbx33> yes
[05:24] <cbx33> and apply to it
[05:24] <cbx33> user name etc
[05:25] <ogra> sure thats out of question
[05:25] <cbx33> I also think that the 4 message system shoudl be changed for expandability
[05:25] <cbx33> why not send one type of message
[05:25] <cbx33> with a command as a prefix
[05:25] <cbx33> instead of list, kill, exec
[05:26] <cbx33> what do you think?
[05:27] <sbalneav> ogra: I have an idear
[05:27] <ogra> you mean: "exec, firefox [user1, user2, usern] " ?
[05:27] <cbx33> ogra, kinda yeh
[05:27] <ogra> sure, why not
[05:27] <sbalneav> instead of callig gnome-session directly...
[05:27] <cbx33> I'll write up a new spec
[05:27] <cbx33> for that section
[05:27] <ogra> we dot call gnome-session at all
[05:27] <sbalneav> Why not call a script that looks like:
[05:27] <sbalneav> #!/bin/sh
[05:27] <ogra> *dont
[05:27] <sbalneav> gnome-session
[05:27] <sbalneav> # clean up mounts.
[05:27] <ogra> its a prerequisite that we use the defaul XSession of the system
[05:28] <ogra> we never called gnome-session
[05:28] <sbalneav> Oh?
[05:28] <sbalneav> heh, never looked at what we called.
[05:28] <sbalneav> oh!
[05:28] <sbalneav> Do we call the xsession script?
[05:29] <ogra> /etc/X11/Xsession
[05:29] <sbalneav> ah, perfect.
[05:29] <sbalneav> We can put some cleanup in /etc/X11/Xsession.d
[05:29] <ogra> so you can add it to XSession.d instead ;)
[05:29] <ogra> desktop independent ;)
[05:29] <sbalneav> hah, beat you to it.
[05:29] <sbalneav> problem solved.
[05:30] <ogra> and you even wrote the full path !
[05:30] <sbalneav> :)
[05:30] <cbx33> ogra, is that ok for me to come up with a new spec for it, or shall I just go ahead and code it
[05:30] <cbx33> and come up with a spec later :p
[05:30] <ogra> go ahead and code it and add it in an extra section to the spec, so i can wave it in
[05:30] <cbx33> ogra, ok, only if you are happy with that implementation?
[05:31] <ogra> yep, thats fine
[05:31] <ogra> it adresses some weaknesses ;)
[05:31] <cbx33> cool
[05:32] <cbx33> it'll be early next week now :p
[05:32] <cbx33> I'm away tomorrow and sat
[05:32] <cbx33> and I have to have logout sounds done for 3 themes by tuesday
[05:42] <ogra> sbalneav, what do you think about gconf integration ?
[05:44] <ogra> ltspfsmounter could check if a key is set for certain device types i.e. user is allowed to use local cd or local disks ...
[05:44] <ogra> that would enable the admin to lock down the key in a gui way via pessulus ...
[05:44] <ogra> gives fine grained access control
[05:49] <sbalneav> That sounds awesome, but I don't know diddly bupkis about gconf.
[05:49] <sbalneav> You'd use something like gconf-tool2 or something to look up the keys.
[05:49] <sbalneav> ?
[05:49] <sbalneav> Sorry, I'm at work, I'm rummaging around for a spare terminal to play now at  work :)
[05:50] <ogra> heh
[05:50] <ogra> there is python-gconf
[05:50] <sbalneav> Oh, right, you were thinking of re-writing the mounter in python.
[05:51] <ogra> yep
[05:51] <sbalneav> I think that's an awesome solution.  It will integrate well with pessalus/sabayon, and gives fine-grained control on a user-by-user basis
[05:54] <jsgotangco> good night
[05:56] <ogra> well, we have that anyway by the fuse group already ;) but it would be finer grained
[06:13] <cbx33> why is all my text anti aliased now :S
[06:14] <Petaris> cbx33: its supposed to make it pritier
[06:14] <cbx33> hi LaserJock
[06:14] <cbx33> Petaris, it makes it more diffiult to read on this LCD
[06:14] <cbx33> :S
[06:14] <Petaris> yeah, I have a monitor or two it utterly sucks on to
[06:14] <Petaris> makes it look fuzzy
[06:14] <sbalneav> aaaaaargh!!!!
[06:15] <sbalneav> 99xorg-common-startup:
[06:15] <sbalneav> exec $STARTUP
[06:15] <sbalneav> crumb!
[06:15] <sbalneav> ogra: That something we can change?
[06:16] <ogra> why ?
[06:16] <sbalneav> well, it's sourced.
[06:17] <sbalneav> so if you do an exec of the startup (i.e. gnome session)
[06:17] <sbalneav> there's no hope of slotting anything in afterwards :(
[06:17] <cbx33> ogra, there is something wrong with taht ACL
[06:17] <cbx33> :(
[06:17] <sbalneav> because xsession script's gone :(
[06:17] <cbx33> I'll try and sort that out first
[06:17] <cbx33> 2/3 logout sounds done
[06:17] <cbx33> :D
[06:18] <ogra> sbalneav, i thought you wanted to clean up before
[06:18] <sbalneav> Before?
[06:18] <ogra> before the session starts
[06:18] <ogra> we cant change the ubuntu defaults there ...
[06:18] <sbalneav> So when the user logs out, you leave the dead bindmounts and all around?
[06:19] <sbalneav> We could clean up before, I suppose.
[06:19] <ogra> well, no
[06:19] <ogra> i wrote you something in my last mail ;)
[06:20] <sbalneav> oh, you're talking about what petter did?
[06:20] <ogra> yep
[06:21] <sbalneav> ah, ok, so you're on that case then.
[06:21] <ogra> ltspfsmounter can get a "cleanup" command
[06:21] <ogra> so ldm just needs to start (ugly way) /etc/X11/XSession && ltspfsmounter cleanup
[06:21] <ogra> but along these lines ...
[06:21] <sbalneav> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[06:22] <sbalneav> that's not ugly
[06:22] <sbalneav> that's brilliant
[06:22] <sbalneav> perfect
[06:22] <sbalneav> You're so smart.  When I grow up I want to be just like you! :)
[06:22] <ogra> heh
[06:23] <ogra> i can only give that back :)
[06:32] <cbx33> ogra, :D:D
[06:32] <cbx33> this is going well
[06:32] <ogra> cool !
[06:32] <cbx33> apart from the ACL
[06:32] <cbx33> I can send messages to the system bus, even though I'm not root
[06:33] <cbx33> but I can't own the bus unless I'm root
[06:34] <cbx33> so in essence the server script is working fine and restricted ok
[06:34] <cbx33> however the client (scp) tool can still go about it's business as a normal user
[06:37] <sbalneav> ogra: ok, I'm having a dopey moment.  I've set up the ltsp chroot, and I've got the terminal booted.  done the ltsp-update-sshkeys, but when I log in, it just boots me back to the login.  What have I missed?
[06:39] <ogra> hmm
[06:39] <ogra> set a root pw and look in the ldm.log ?
[06:39] <ogra> (on the terminal)
[06:40] <ogra> and look in ~/.xsession-errors
[06:40] <ogra> if you ran the update-sshkeys it should simply work ... is your sshd running?
[06:40] <sbalneav> ah, there's the proble,
[06:41] <sbalneav> i've got 2 cards in this box, and ltsp-update-sshkeys didn't add an entry for the card I'm running the term on
[06:41] <sbalneav> humm
[06:41] <ogra> thats weird
[06:41] <ogra> shouldnt happen
[06:42] <sbalneav> re-ran it
[06:42] <sbalneav> lets see
[06:42] <ogra> is the interface up ?
[06:43] <ogra> indeed it is ... you just booted from it :)
[06:43] <ogra> silly me
[06:44] <cbx33> ogra, regarding the ACL issue, could it be that we never actually denied send access to the interface before we allowed it from root?
[06:44] <cbx33> so therefore by "default" everyone has send access
[06:45] <cbx33> got it
[06:45] <cbx33> that was it :D
[06:46] <cbx33> we now have working ACL
[06:46] <cbx33> w00t
[06:49] <ogra> sbalneav, any idea why esd would connect to .ltspfs-socket ?
[06:49] <ogra> lsof -t gets me esd in the output
[06:53] <sbalneav> no idea at all
[06:53] <sbalneav> as for my logon problem: "Xsession started for user scbal..."
[06:53] <sbalneav> No profile found for user scbal
[06:53] <sbalneav> huh
[06:53] <ogra> sabayon ...
[06:54] <ogra> create a profile or remove sabayon
[06:54] <sbalneav> ohhhh
[06:56] <sbalneav> yep that was it.
[06:56] <sbalneav> that needs.... a better error message :)
[06:56] <ogra> yep
[06:56] <ogra> ldm needs them ;)
[06:56] <sbalneav> ok, lunchtime walkies!
[06:56] <ogra> enjoy
[06:57] <sbalneav> Need to keep my svelte figure :)
[06:57] <ogra> :)
[06:57] <sbalneav> bb in a bit
[07:26] <ogra> hmm, the cdpinger doesnt wotk on uplug anymore either ...
[07:28] <ogra> oh, right, the check_mounted function is gone ...
[07:28] <ogra> so it doesnt clean u anymore ...
[07:28] <ogra> *up
[07:30] <cbx33> ogra, we could use the scp daemon to poll users and make sure that the system message bus listener service is running for each user
[07:38] <ogra> daemon ?
[07:39] <ogra> please dont make that bigger than it is ... there should be a simple subfunction in scp
[07:39] <ogra> no daemons ...
[07:39] <cbx33> I meant the scp message bus server
[07:40] <ogra> that should be scp itself
[07:40] <ogra> no separate rogram
[07:40] <cbx33> oh right
[07:40] <ogra> and keep it as simple as possible
[07:41] <cbx33> ogra, then
[07:41] <ogra> no two way communication or anything ... thats fine for version 2
[07:41] <cbx33> please explain in the spec
[07:41] <cbx33> the difference between server and client
[07:41] <ogra> server = scp
[07:41] <ogra> client = the listener in the users session
[07:42] <ogra> i thought that was explained there
[07:42] <cbx33> read the execution of the application
[07:42] <cbx33> that paints a completely different picture
[07:42] <cbx33> half the work I've done is not required
[07:42] <cbx33> if we're implementing in the way you have just said
[07:43] <ogra> A Student Control Panel listener service file with the namespace 'com.ubuntu.StudentControlPanel' will be installed in /usr/share/dbus-1/service.d/ which will listen for messages from Student Control Panel.
[07:43] <cbx33> read further down
[07:43] <ogra> doesnt talk about a "student control panel server"
[07:43] <cbx33> further down it gives that impression
[07:43] <ogra> but about student control panel
[07:45] <ogra> oh, right Client here = SCP
[07:45] <ogra> i'll add the word schematic to the caption of that piece ...
[07:45] <cbx33> so client and server are the same thing?
[07:45] <ogra> no
[07:45] <cbx33> then why does it have to communicate with itself over dbus?
[07:46] <cbx33> ok what is server
[07:46] <ogra> SCP communicates with a tool in the users session
[07:46] <ogra> what you are referring to is a plain schematic picture
[07:46] <ogra> i could have written A and B instead of Server and Client
[07:46] <cbx33> yeh I understand that
[07:46] <ogra> or X and Y
[07:47] <ogra> its just to show the dataflow
[07:47] <cbx33> but it implies that the A talks to B
[07:47] <ogra> nothing you should base an implementation on
[07:47] <cbx33> and the C picks up the messages from the bu
[07:47] <ogra> right
[07:47] <ogra> they are two different apps
[07:47] <cbx33> so who are A and B
[07:48] <ogra> A is SCP
[07:48] <ogra> B is the tool running in the users session
[07:48] <cbx33> and C?
[07:48] <ogra> ??
[07:48] <ogra> there are only two ends on a sausage ... what do you mean with C ?
[07:50] <cbx33> ok....
[07:50] <cbx33> line by line....
[07:50] <cbx33> Client (SCP) sends the message
[07:50] <cbx33> to where?
[07:50] <ogra> sigh
[07:50] <ogra> dbus
[07:51] <ogra> on the system bus
[07:51] <cbx33> Server (who is this) verifies the message
[07:51] <cbx33> unless by this you mean server as in LTSP
[07:51] <ogra> no
[07:51] <cbx33> the dbus server
[07:51] <ogra> forget about the term server
[07:51] <cbx33> ogra, I get it now....
[07:51] <cbx33> that entire section
[07:52] <cbx33> is the authentication
[07:52] <cbx33> o my word
[07:52] <cbx33> I can;t beleive I was so THICK !
[07:52] <cbx33> ogra my apologies.....I totally mis understood taht section
[07:54] <cbx33> can you ever forgive that stupidity
[07:59] <ogra> even if we might have a remote executable SCP at some point for remote management of multiple SCP servers, there will only be one instance running on the respective server
[07:59] <ogra> s/muliple SCP servers/multiple LTSP servers/
[07:59] <cbx33> my case was two teachers in different class rooms
[07:59] <cbx33> wanting to control students
[08:00] <cbx33> both rooms powered by the same ltsp server
[08:01] <ogra> that cant work ...
[08:01] <ogra> unless you have userlists and databases who is in which room
[08:01] <cbx33> or databases of which machines are in which room
[08:01] <cbx33> which is how our system at school works currently
[08:02] <ogra> how would you know
[08:02] <ogra> its 100% dynamically .... all you could use here would be the MAC address of the client
[08:02] <cbx33> we use a commercial package at the moment
[08:02] <cbx33> called ranger remote
[08:02] <ogra> thats the only thing thats not dynamically
[08:02] <cbx33> yes it uses macs
[08:02] <ogra> and its way beyond SCP at the current state
[08:02] <cbx33> ok
[08:03] <ogra> i really need to go on coding now
[08:03] <cbx33> once again I apologise for making you pull your hair out
[08:03] <ogra> nah, it was very badly written, yu are right
[08:03] <cbx33> sorry again
[08:51] <sbalneav> ogra: Got time for a quick techie discussion?
[08:54] <ogra> sure
[08:55] <ogra> let me make a fresh coffee first :)
[08:55] <sbalneav> ok, while you're making coffee, I'll type: pitti wants us to make sure when we unmount the directory, it's ours...
[08:56] <sbalneav> However, I can't do a stat() call, because EVEN IF I DROP PRIVS!, fuse stops us because the binaries setuid, so I can't stat the directory.
[08:56] <sbalneav> However, what I CAN do, is check /proc/mounts for the mountpoint:
[08:57] <sbalneav> which will show somehing like uid=1000 in the options field.
[08:57] <sbalneav> So, before unmounting, I look for the dir in proc mounts, see that it's got a bindmount owned by me, and it should be safe, yes?
[08:57] <sbalneav> That make sense?
[08:58] <sbalneav> Pitti's not in -devel, otherwise i'd ask him
[08:59] <ogra> he'll be around later, we have distro meeting at 1am (local time)
[08:59] <sbalneav> 1am?
[08:59] <sbalneav> Wow
[08:59] <ogra> 23:00 UTC
[09:00] <sbalneav> I'm going to assume that's valid, and code it for now.
[09:00] <sbalneav> since I KNOW that the stat() call won't work. :)
[09:00] <ogra> ok
[09:00] <sbalneav> It's this or don't do the test :)
[09:01] <ogra> yeah
[09:01] <ogra> i'D rather dont )
[09:01] <ogra> :)
[09:01] <ogra> it starts getting a lot of bloat here
[09:02] <pygi> ogra, libburn burns ^_^
[09:03] <sbalneav> Don't think pitti will like that.  And we want to stay in his good books :)
[09:03] <ogra> sbalneav, btw whyts /tmp/foople for ? :)
[09:04] <sbalneav> argh.  Debugging stuff left in.
[09:04] <ogra> lets use ~/.xsession-errors :)
[09:04] <sbalneav> anything I send you while developing might have wibbly bits in it :)
[09:04] <ogra> probably even for cdpinger etc *g* we could send it through the socket :P
[09:05] <sbalneav> I name all my debugging files/variable/etc "foo*", then after I've got everything working, I do a "grep foo *" on my source, and clean them all up :)
[09:05] <ogra> ok, looks like i have cdpinger running fully again here with the usb cdrom ... it doesnt cry if i unplug etc ...
[09:06] <ogra> ah, nice :)
[09:06] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~/devel/ltspfs/ltsp-localdev-scott$ fusermount --help
[09:06] <ogra> bash: /usr/bin/fusermount: Permission denied
[09:06] <ogra> grmbl
[09:07] <ogra> I ONLY WANT YOUR HELPSCREEN YOU DARN THING !
[09:07] <ogra> sorry :)
[09:08] <ogra> sad, there is no --user option for the unmount :)
[09:08] <sbalneav> yeah, fuse is HYPER secure
[09:09] <ogra> would be nice to just fusermount -uzq --user $USER
[09:09] <ogra> to unmount everything
[09:09] <sbalneav> ogra: ah, so that's the hacked up cdpinger that I gave you last night being launched from udev?
[09:09] <ogra> nope
[09:09] <ogra> cdpinger itself had some serious bugs
[09:10] <ogra> i rewrote the lsof part completely ...
[09:10] <ogra> fiddled around with the unmount .... (it started to unmount over and over when i unplugged ...
[09:10] <ogra> )
[09:11] <ogra> and re-added the check for the link and the closing of the filehandle ...
[09:13] <sbalneav> awsome. mail me please please please please please please pretty please
[09:14] <ogra> suure
[09:17] <ogra> sbalneav, sent
[09:17] <sbalneav> thx
[09:17] <sbalneav> are you starting it from udev, or still just statically?
[09:18] <ogra> still statically
[09:18] <ogra> with one default one started with cdrom as argument
[09:18] <ogra> and after that i'm running the loop for multiple CDs you added
[09:23] <cbx33> ok ogra I'm getting there again
[09:23] <sbalneav> Cool, lookin HOT
[09:23] <cbx33> my listener is just not receiving the signals
[09:23] <cbx33> but it will receive HAL signals
[09:23] <cbx33> :
[09:23] <cbx33> S
[09:23] <ogra> sbalneav, oh, the check_mount function can be dropped again
[09:24] <ogra> i did that onyl for s test
[09:24] <ogra> *some
[09:25] <ogra> oh, i didnt even realize you write directly to fstab :)
[09:25] <ogra> to sad thats not possible with sed
[09:25] <ogra> thats bothering be in the remove_fstab_entry script
[09:26] <ogra> *me
[09:26] <sbalneav> yeah, I just figured why call an extra program when we're already python.
[09:26] <sbalneav> figured it might be faster.
[09:26] <ogra> (sed needs to write a .swp file to /etc for it :/)
[09:27] <ogra> (and mv doesnt work either because t needs to remove the file first)
[09:27] <ogra> heh ...
[09:28] <ogra> we could make cdpinger a python module :P
[09:28] <ogra> then i could just use the functions from it in the add/remove_fstab_entry scripts
[09:30] <ogra> hmm ...
[09:30] <ogra> hmm ...
[09:30] <ogra> hmm hmm
[09:31] <ogra> what about just starting/killing cdpinger from these scripts ?
[09:31] <ogra> for all devices
[09:32] <ogra> not ... that'll eat to much mem
[09:33] <sbalneav> yeah, I like it how it is for memory sticks: there's nothing hanging around, the connection's plumbed, and then it's done.
[09:33] <ogra> but in fact we do a lot redundant stuff
[09:33] <ogra> all the functions we have in cdpinger are used in the udev scripts in shell ...
[09:34] <sbalneav> brb, work ping
[09:46] <ogra> sed -e "/^\/dev\/$1 /d" /etc/fstab >/tmp/fstab
[09:46] <ogra> cp /tmp/fstab /etc/
[09:46] <ogra> rm /tmp/fstab
[09:46] <ogra> thats better :)
[09:46] <ogra> still not perfect but well
[09:49] <sbalneav> gad, the nerve of these people, expecting me to work on LEGALAID related matters during working hours!  Don't they know I've got Ubuntu stuff to take care of? :)
[09:49] <ogra> heh
[11:42] <cbx33> pygi, know a good way in python to return the current username?
[11:45] <rodarvus> cbx33,
[11:45] <rodarvus> >>> import os
[11:45] <rodarvus> >>> os.getlogin()
[11:45] <rodarvus> 'rodarvus'
[11:45] <rodarvus> >>>
[11:45] <cbx33> oooh thanks rodarvus
[11:45] <rodarvus> :)
[11:45] <LaserJock> yeah, that os module is nifty
[11:45] <rodarvus> I wish all questions could be as easily answered as this one ;)
[11:46] <cbx33> I looked at the docs
[11:46] <cbx33> but couldn't find one
[11:46] <rodarvus> cbx33, the interactive interpreter is the *best* doc you can find in python
[11:46] <rodarvus> dir (module) does wonders
[11:46] <LaserJock> ok, I've got like 2 hrs to come up with a talk about Launchpad :-)
[11:46] <LaserJock> hmmmm
[11:51] <cbx33> EASY
[11:53] <LaserJock> hehe
[11:53] <LaserJock> yeah right
[11:54] <rodarvus> how long is your talk going to be?
[11:54] <rodarvus> what aspects of LP are you going to talk about?
[11:54] <LaserJock> well, 1hr
[11:54] <rodarvus> LaunchPad is *huge* stuff :)
[11:55] <LaserJock> of course
[11:55] <LaserJock> I was supposed to be a backup because I'm giving another talk
[11:55] <LaserJock> but nobody wanted to touch LP ;-)
[11:55] <LaserJock> but the conference is pretty informal
[11:55] <rodarvus> LaserJock, you're going to talk about LP itself, Malone, Rosetta, Soyuz, Blueprint, or something else?
[11:55] <LaserJock> so I think I'll talk about Malone, Rosetta, Soyuz, Blueprint
[11:56] <LaserJock> briefly show how to get around a bit
[11:56] <LaserJock> maybe a little triaging or something
[11:56] <LaserJock> and then maybe have more of a discussion
[11:56] <LaserJock> about peoples experiences with it or something
[11:57] <LaserJock> that's the best I can figure out
[11:58] <sbalneav> Hello all
[11:59] <LaserJock> hi scotty
[12:10] <cbx33> ogra, ok
[12:10] <cbx33> kill is now performed via dbus
[12:10] <cbx33> I've done it
[12:10] <cbx33> 70% of the work done
[12:10] <cbx33> just need to do execute


  5) profit!!!
[12:11] <LaserJock> I think I would get stuck at 1)
[12:11] <trappist> there's definitely a danger of that
[12:11] <trappist> but my sister's already well into 2) :)
[12:11] <mdke> 4) sounds like the key
[12:11] <LaserJock> well, I mean I couldn't get *into* 1)
[12:12] <mdke> me neither
[12:12] <trappist> pfft.
[12:12] <trappist> anybody.  and I mean anybody.  can get into tech support.  if you can afford to live on the wages.
[12:12] <mdke> i need to look into getting a job as a lawyer for an open source company
[12:12] <LaserJock> mdke: that would be cool
[12:12] <trappist> that'd be awesome
[12:12] <trappist> or go work for rms :)
[12:13] <LaserJock> yikes
[12:13] <mdke> hmm
[12:13] <mdke> that sounds like hard work
[12:13] <LaserJock> I don't think I could handle that much stress
[12:13] <mdke> even worse than now :D
[12:13] <trappist> or become independently wealthy and do all pro bono work for oss
[12:14] <mdke> good plan
[12:14] <trappist> I've decided that if a fat pile of cash ever falls into my lap ima set up a foundation to support desktop oss projects
[12:14] <LaserJock> I'd like to see more professional software in my field (chemistry) that has good licenses so that I can get universities to use Ubuntu more
[12:15] <mdke> yep
[12:15] <trappist> ruby would be a great language for chemistry software
[12:15] <LaserJock> I'm getting into python now
[12:15] <mdke> I could go on a rampage for converting the legal world to linux, it wouldn't be so hard
[12:15] <trappist> I avoid python
[12:16] <LaserJock> mdke: there is a big thing in the sciences for non-commercial use only licenses
[12:16] <trappist> mdke: you think?  I'd figure a lawyer would be like "no warranty? not even the implied warranty of merchantability or suitability for a particular purpose? NO ONE TO SUE IF IT BREAKS?!"
[12:17] <mdke> heh
[12:17] <mdke> there is _always_ someone to sue
[12:17] <trappist> esp. in the us
[12:18] <mdke> how dare you
[12:18] <LaserJock> I'd just like to see OSS work in the scientific arena, it is sort of odd since science and OSS have similar philosophies
[12:18] <trappist> pretty soon smokers will be suing the companies that ship the fertilizer to the tobacco farms
[12:18] <LaserJock> trappist: good idea, I never thought of that ;-)
[12:18] <trappist> LaserJock: I don't think they do.  if I want to read a scientific journal I have to pony up $$ to subscribe.
[12:19] <LaserJock> trappist: sort of, but we are all about the open development and sharing of ideas
[12:19] <trappist> mdke: http://overlawyered.com/ for more great ideas
[12:19] <mdke> thanks
[12:20] <LaserJock> it isn't so much of a money issue (although there are plans to change that as well) but the openness
[12:20] <trappist> yeah I blame the journal people, not the scientists
[12:20] <LaserJock> scientists usually don't care since they usually have access to most journals anyway
[12:20] <LaserJock> although they should
[12:21] <trappist> yeah even students usually have access to journal publications
[12:21] <trappist> paying students
[12:22] <LaserJock> even the public at most universities
[12:22] <trappist> I just wanna be able to google for something and not get shut down if the hit happens to be on an abstract of a scientific journal article
[12:22] <trappist> is that so wrong?
[12:23] <LaserJock> but universities pay huge amounts of money for the subscriptions (there are several chemistry journals that are ~$1000USD/year)
[12:23] <trappist> such a tease, being able to read the abstracts
[12:23] <LaserJock> heh, yeah. I hate that
[12:23] <LaserJock> that is changing though
[12:24] <LaserJock> there are more and more free journals and somebody figured out that it didn't make sense to have taxpayer funded research be so expensive to accesss
[12:24] <LaserJock> wow, to many "s"s
[12:25] <trappist> that is a helluva good point
[12:25] <trappist> research funded by me should by god be available to me
[12:25] <LaserJock> yeah, so  now NIH is going to a system where publishers get 6 months and then it goes public
[12:26] <LaserJock> I think it is a reasonable idea
[12:26] <trappist> that's a step in the right direction
[12:26] <trappist> well my day's over... talk to you fellas later
[12:26] <LaserJock> the other idea was making authors pay for the publication (they do some now anyway)
[12:38] <mdke> night night
[12:39] <mdke> need my beauty sleep for some hard core lawyering
[12:39] <mdke> especially with the new ideas that trappist has given me
[12:40] <crimsun> I hate the idea of premium journals period
[01:41] <ompaul> crimsun, the CODATA people are wondering why give away an article to be reviewed and then have to pay a fortune to read the research you generated
[01:41] <ompaul> crimsun, methinks the publishing industry needs to rethink its model
[01:41] <crimsun> it's utter crap
[01:43] <ompaul> so the question is there room for a "log onto a peer review" server and communitise it with a small fee for the unis that keep these servers up - present pdfs or some such
[01:43] <ompaul> just seems kinda logical
[02:23] <robotgeek> who has ops in here?
[02:29] <LaserJock> hmm, I don't know that anybody does, perhaps Seveas knows
[02:33] <robotgeek> _frank's client is flooding, i guess
[02:40] <LaserJock> robotgeek: ask Burgundavia
[02:40] <Burgundavia> robotgeek: hmm?
[02:41] <Burgundavia> ok, who is NaamanCambell again?
[02:42] <LaserJock> bustacap I think
[02:42] <Burgundavia> hmm
[02:42] <Burgundavia> thought? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkDevices?action=diff&rev2=12&rev1=11
[02:43] <Burgundavia> thoughts, even
[02:48] <LaserJock> looks good to me
[02:48] <Burgundavia> hmm
[02:48] <Burgundavia> that would mean a great deal fo little notes
[02:49] <LaserJock> yeah
[02:49] <Burgundavia> not my idea of great
[02:51] <LaserJock> and people should be reading WikiGuide anyway, right? ;-)
[03:01] <Burgundavia> ha
[03:45] <Unfrgiven> alrighty all, ive gotta go... its time for ultimate frisbee!
[03:46] <Unfrgiven> argh wrong window... sorry :P
[06:13] <robotgeek> mdke: ping, another error
[06:13] <robotgeek> unrar-nonfree is replaced by unrar in dapper
[06:13] <Madpilot> license change, or has the free one improved?
[06:13] <robotgeek> no, the non-free one is called unrar
[06:14] <robotgeek> http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/utils/unrar
[06:15] <robotgeek> luckily, it won't change translation strings "P
[06:15] <robotgeek> it changes one line, sorry
[06:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> i remember there being discusion about the differences in the kde/gnome help viewers, but i dont remember how long ago it was. can anyone give me a rough idea? i'm hoping to look it up as i want to convert some docbook into whatever kde uses
[06:48] <Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser, I know the Kubuntu Desktop Guide is in DocBook in our repos, same as all the Ubuntu docs - no idea if it gets converted to anything before being packaged, though
[06:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok. thanks Madpilot
[06:50] <Madpilot> robotgeek is our Kubuntu docs guy, though
[06:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> *sp
[06:51] <robotgeek> jjesse packages it for us :)
[06:54] <Madpilot> heh. we all do small bits, and somehow it mostly gets done - just don't ask any one person to describe the whole process :P
[06:55] <robotgeek> file
[07:05] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: does that sounder post mean you are actually going to go looking for a job outside the library?
[07:06] <Burgundavia> tbh, Ubuntu does not currently appear on my resume, but Userful didn't ask for it
[07:07] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, it means the Flying Club might have an opening in a month or so, and I need to update my resume...
[07:07] <Burgundavia> very cool
[07:08] <Burgundavia> what sort of job?
[07:08] <Madpilot> dispatch/front desk
[07:08] <Burgundavia> ah, cool
[07:08] <Burgundavia> you might need to move out ther
[07:09] <Madpilot> yeah - it'll be an evening shift at first, so no long morning commute - just a long evening one :P
[07:12] <Burgundavia> there are a few web design firms in town looking for people
[07:29] <Burgundavia> salut highvoltage
[07:36] <Madpilot> hi robitaille
[07:37] <robitaille> Hi Madpilot
[07:37] <robitaille> so fed up of the library?
[07:37] <Madpilot> getting that way
[07:42] <highvoltage> salut Burgundavia!
[07:42] <highvoltage> how are things in doc-land?
[07:43] <highvoltage> i've been meaning to ask, is ubuntu-doc responsible for xubuntu documentation as well?
[07:44] <Madpilot> highvoltage, yes, there's the beginnings of the Xubuntu Desktop Guide in our repos
[07:45] <highvoltage> nice.
[08:56] <mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, kde uses html
[08:56] <mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, we build it using xsltproc and some xsl stylesheets
[08:57] <mdke> if you prefer, you can use meinproc, which uses some kde stylesheets (that is described on the kde docs website)
[09:06] <mdke> robotgeek, dude! did you get that string change in before Riddell uploaded the package?
[09:10] <mdke> robotgeek, I'm uploading the pot manually, just in case. Now, enough string changes already!!
[09:11] <robotgeek> mdke: sorry, but i found a mistake
[09:11] <mdke> yeah, i saw
[09:13] <mdke> :)
[09:13] <mdke> it's fine, the fewer errors the better
[09:28] <mdke> robitaille, you have to pay for mepis, mandrive, suse?
[09:28] <mdke> i thought those were free
[09:33] <robitaille> I think they all have a paid and free version.... but I'm pretty sure they are all in the same boat than Ubuntu.  If free, you don't have mp3 out of the box unless you go download it somewhere
[09:34] <robitaille> but I could be totally wrong...
[09:36] <jauroju> atleast opensuse doesn't include support for mp3 if i remember right
[09:37] <gobbe> i think that all those free versions are lack of support for restricted things
[09:39] <robitaille> that's what I thought as well.  But looking at the mepis web site just now, it's not clear that they don't ship without mp3..
[12:38] <mvo> could someone from the doc team please have a look at  https://launchpad.net/bugs/40061 ?
[12:38] <mvo> it is a xml problem apparently but my docbook skills are very limited
[12:42] <mdke> looking
[12:43] <mdke> mvo, ah, yes I know that error well. Where is the source?
[12:44] <mvo> mdke: availalbe via bzr get http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/bzr/update-manager/update-manager--dapper
[12:44] <mdke> mvo, I dunno bzr.  etc that is there now?
[12:46] <mvo> a absolute path?
[12:46] <mdke> no, no
[12:46] <mdke> mvo, best thing is to remove the entity in line 7, and substitute &distro-rev; for 6.06 in line 56
[12:46] <mdke> that way, we avoid gnome-app-install having to depend on ubuntu-docs :D
[12:48] <mdke> mvo, clear?
[12:49] <mvo> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12545
[12:49] <mvo> like this?
[12:49] <mdke> mvo, remove line 9 of that
[12:50] <mdke> otherwise, that's right
[12:50] <mdke> lemme check it works
[12:51] <mvo> line 9 too? in addition to the current removal?
[12:51] <mdke> mvo, yes, the text in line 9 of that pastebin need to go
[12:52] <mdke> if you do that, it works
[12:53] <mvo> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/12546
[12:54] <mdke> mvo, correct. I've tested, it works
[12:54] <mvo> thanks :)
[12:56] <mdke> np
[04:47] <jjesse> any special permission to upload images for the wiki?
[04:49] <mdke> nope
[04:49] <jjesse> ok, working on getting screenshots for kubuntudapperbeta, is there a short guide on how to do it?
[04:50] <jsgotangco> just upload it on the page your are editing
[04:50] <robotgeek> jjesse: do you have kubuntu installed, or is this via vmware?
[04:50] <robotgeek> wiki.ubuntu.com/TakingScreenshots
[04:50] <jjesse> robotgeek: both :)
[04:51] <jjesse> hmmm that doesn't really help me with uploading to the wiki
[04:53] <robotgeek> jjesse: More Actions -> Attachements
[04:55] <jjesse> robotgeek: thanks :)
[04:56] <mdke> HelpOnActions has some docs, I think
[05:00] <jjesse> thaanks mdke
[06:00] <trappist> say, what are the the license problems with fop?  it looks to have an apache license.
[06:02] <robotgeek> trappist: it uses java to make pdfs
[06:02] <robotgeek> i am not sure if it works for gcj
[06:02] <mdke> no, i don't think it does
[06:03] <mdke> it didn't work for me with multiverse java, I had to use sun's
[06:03] <trappist> so the license issue is indirect - you have to install sun java (as far as we can tell) to use it, but it's not encumbered on its own, right?
[06:03] <mdke> i think that is probably right, although I didn't check the license
[06:04] <trappist> http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/fop/license.html
[06:06] <mdke> what's the apache licence, version 1.1 like?
[06:08] <trappist> I dunno really, but apache 1.x was under it, and that was apparently free enough for the freedom freaks
[06:10] <Kamping_Kaiser> did RMS say it was free? thats the big test ;)
[06:12] <mdke> trappist, so, fop is fine then, I guess
[06:12] <trappist> other projects like subversion and mod_gzip are under the apache licence, and it's OSI-approved
[06:12] <trappist> mdke: far as I can tell
[06:12] <trappist> just not (necessarily) useful without other software that may offend rms
[06:13] <trappist> which I'm ok with doing, myself
[07:02] <jjesse> mgalvin: that image for ubunut rocks, can i get a kubuntu beta one :)
[07:33] <mdke> trappist, why do you ask by the way? got a plan for packaging it?
[07:36] <trappist> maybe, now that you mention it, but we're facing the prospect here at work of converting xml/docbook to pdf and I was looking at options, and while I was staring at fop I noticed the license
[07:49] <LaserJock> morning doc people!
[07:50] <highvoltage> morning laserperson!
[07:52] <mgalvin> jjesse: its the default GNOME ubuntu splash screen, i didn't make it...
[07:52] <mgalvin> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-artwork
[07:52] <mgalvin> its in
[07:52] <mgalvin> /usr/share/pixmaps/splash/ubuntu-splash.png
[07:58] <jjesse> mgalvin: oh, wonder if there is a kubuntu one?
[08:00] <mgalvin> dunno :-/
[08:08] <LaserJock> a kubuntu splash for GNOME?
[08:12] <highvoltage> that's weird


[11:27] <AD-N770> good morning
[11:28] <AD-N770> someone in the channel has a samsung Q1 ultra running ubuntu ?
[11:29] <AD-N770> I received one yesterday and I would like remove vista and install ubuntu on it, I would like comments about previous experiences like this from other people
[11:30] <AD-N770> is it possible install via network or the only way is using an external usb optical drive ?
[11:52] <rusty_> git clone rsync://moblin.org/repos/tools/project-builder.git
[12:01] <len> len is here
[12:02] <mfrey> hi len
[12:08] <rusty_> git clone rsync://moblin.org/repos/projects/mobile-basic-flash.git
[12:11] <bspencer> rusty_: for hildon, I asked horace to send you the changes
[12:12] <bspencer> rusty_: but yo umight be able to just pull our stuff and make the diffs yourself to be faster
[12:22] <rusty_> ok
[12:22] <rusty_> I'm a bit behind on email... did you send a description of what all we need to look at... i.e. new packages verses patches to existing packages
[12:47] <Mithrandir> git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy
[04:09] <Mithrandir> git://git.err.no/crown-beach-config
[06:01] <tshureih> hello hello
[06:02] <Mithrandir> hiya Tariq
[06:02] <Mithrandir> and hi Mauri
[06:02] <mauri_> Hi
[06:02] <tshureih> hey mithrandir
[06:02] <Mithrandir> mauri_: just saw the shipping thingy for the Q1s, thanks.
[06:04] <mauri_> Hope they arrive soon and also to Brazil...
[06:08] <robr> morning everyone
[06:08] <robr> or is it afternoon in London?
[06:18] <Mithrandir> it's almost half past five, so afternoon.
[06:18] <tshureih> Mithrandir, how was the sprint? any updates?
[06:19] <Mithrandir> it's still going on, very productive.
[06:20] <Mithrandir> give me five minutes and I'll get you an update
[06:20] <robr> jacob, how's the crown beach working out in London?
[06:20] <agoliveira> mauri_: Thanks, I already spoke to Sulamita. She will keep an eye on it.
[06:22] <tshureih> agoliveira, i have an update for you on the Power Management in general and the GUI specifically, is this a good time?
[06:23] <agoliveira> tshureih: As good as ever ;)
[06:24] <tshureih> ok
[06:24] <agoliveira> tshureih: Can you send me an email?
[06:24] <tshureih> sure
[06:24] <tshureih> I need your email and Amit's please
[06:25] <tshureih> please note that I will describe things in the email but the specification document (available in txt and pdf and will be posted on the wiki) will not be attached yet since I am awaiting review, feedback and "legal" scrubbing
[06:25] <agoliveira> tshureih<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and<EMAIL_ADDRESS>shuld do ;)
[06:25] <agoliveira> Ok.
[06:25] <agoliveira> s/shuld/should
[06:26] <agoliveira> @canonical.com is also ok.
[06:26] <tshureih> the document describes the internals and I will add the API as well once I get it back from the review process
[06:26] <tshureih> I am documenting the working code basically :)
[06:26] <tshureih> ok agoliveira sounds great, look for it today
[06:27] <tshureih> but heads up, on the GUI for mobile we're doing a new GUI -- actually already have a working prototype
[06:27] <tshureih> extending Gnome Power Manager is a big task with some implications ;-)
[06:29] <jacob> robr, it is working fine
[06:29] <jacob> robr, they run into some build issues so the final kernel package is still not ready yet
[06:29] <jacob> robr, can you try building the new ubuntu kernel on a fast machine and post it on moblin?
[06:30] <jacob> robr, i am using my laptop to compile, it is too slow.
[06:31] <agoliveira> tshureih: Ok, got it
[06:32] <Mithrandir> hi bob
[06:32] <bspencer> hello
[06:32] <agoliveira> bspencer: Hi there
[06:32] <Mithrandir> we now have dailies which build; they still need to be set up to be published, but that'll happen today or early tomorrow.
[06:32] <bspencer> if I'm coming in the middle of the weekly meeting, I apologize -- i thought it was canceled due to the sprint.
[06:33] <Mithrandir> currently, they won't actually work, but that's fairly simple to fix.
[06:33] <Mithrandir> bspencer: there's no meeting today; I should have mailed the list with it, but have been drowned in stuff.
[06:33] <bspencer> whew
[06:34] <Mithrandir> I've uploaded the samsung and crown beach default configs, they'll have binaries in the archive in a little time.
[06:34] <agoliveira> bspencer: How's the things in the colony? :)
[06:34] <bspencer> agoliveira, rusty_  hows trying to get our UI into Tribe 3?  I saw that Horace sent out diffs for Ubuntu hildon-desktop vs. our current repo
[06:34] <Mithrandir> mobile-basic-flash and mobile-application-service is pending the source to the flash application; it's currently not redistributable.
[06:34] <bspencer> agoliveira: good, thankx
[06:34] <bspencer> yeah, ok
[06:35] <bspencer> Mithrandir: right -- details details
[06:35] <Mithrandir> (SWF isn't a preferred form of modification => GPL requirement not fulfilled => undistributable)
[06:35] <Mithrandir> but I'm looking at the rest of the packaging
[06:35] <bspencer> Mithrandir: ok.  I also need to send modification requests to the hilldon guys for discussion of upstream changes
[06:36] <bspencer> and I'm looking for a quick alternative home screen applet to get the UI going w/o flash
[06:36] <bspencer> even if it isn't immediately scalable
[06:36] <bspencer> or extraordinarily elegant
[06:43] <rusty_> bspencer, we need to add the source for the swf into the mobile-basic-flash source
[06:43] <rusty_> bspencer, we have pushed what we think needs pushing into the appropriate bzr repositories
[06:43] <rusty_> and i have Mithrandir reviewing several of the new packages
[06:43] <bspencer> rusty_: k.  I'll add the swf source
[06:43] <rusty_> bspencer, you listening?
[06:43] <rusty_> also
[06:44] <rusty_> I need you guys to checkout fresh copies of the bzr repositories and build via pbuilder
[06:44] <bspencer> build what
[06:44] <rusty_> and if you find that we made a merge error then commit a fix
[06:44] <rusty_> all of the packages that we changed
[06:44] <bspencer> just for desktop/hildon/UI stuff?
[06:46] <rusty_> today i stepped through each package on moblin, and for each one that was an existing UME bzr project, agoliveira and I merged the changes
[06:46] <rusty_> so...
[06:46] <bspencer> ok.  great job
[06:46] <rusty_> but...
[06:46] <bspencer> control panel even ?
[06:46] <rusty_> we might have made an error
[06:46] <bspencer> sure
[06:46] <rusty_> and we are about to take off
[06:46] <bspencer> I'll pull from bzr and try it out
[06:46] <bspencer> yeah, I'll have it for you first thing tomorrow boss
[06:46] <bspencer> I'll push patches
[06:46] <rusty_> if we made any mistakes, you guys do not fix if for us, then it is very unlikely the changes will make it for tribe 3
[06:48] <bspencer> rusty_: I see that you said Ken can make it work with gnash
[06:49] <bspencer> that would be great.  it isn't that complex.
[06:51] <rusty_> he didn't promise, but he thinks it possible
[06:57] <robr> join #pdx
[07:18] <CharliefJohnson> Mithrandir:Did you get my email about UME builds & Tribe-3 ?  (My laptop is dead this morning so I didn't see if you replied.)
[07:20] <Mithrandir> CharliefJohnson: yes; but I've so far failed to reply.  I'll do that tomorrow.
[07:20] <Mithrandir> CharliefJohnson: short summary: we have daily builds now, they just lack publishing
[07:20] <Mithrandir> and they don't work at the moment
[07:20] <Mithrandir> both are being worked
[07:20] <Mithrandir> + on
[07:21] <CharliefJohnson> OK - thanks.


[04:58] <Amirh> hi
[04:58] <Amirh> finally a malaysian channel
[05:15] <Amirh> hi
[05:21] <Romance> korg ada masalah x connect apa2 server USA?
[05:22] <Romance> byk vps aku based kat USA ni x dpt connect..terpaksa guna ssh tunnel kat vps eropah
[05:22] <Romance> twitter pn x dpt buka kalo xguna proxy eropah
[05:22] <Amirh> Romance: Can you speak English?
[05:23] <Romance> sure
[05:25] <Amirh> I used google to find android developer communities in Malaysia, I found some but not active.
[05:25] <Amirh> do you have any suggestion?
[05:26] <Amirh> Romance
[05:26] <Romance> meh..good luck you wont find much
[05:26] <Romance> but why are you looking for them?
[05:27] <Amirh> I used to live in Malaysia
[05:27] <Romance> aight
[05:27] <Amirh> I want to get back there by a job offer
[05:27] <Amirh> I know php too.
[05:27] <Amirh> generally can program in any language
[05:27] <Amirh> also java.
[05:27] <Amirh> familar with ruby
[05:27] <Amirh> by I think android has a promissed future.
[05:28] <Romance> are you okay with cheap salary?
[05:28] <Romance> i dont think you can get high salary in Malaysia even if you are a pro
[05:28] <Amirh> give me a number
[05:28] <Amirh> in RM
[05:28] <mypapit> yup
[05:28] <Romance> avg below RM4000
[05:28] <mypapit> kinda agree with that
[05:29] <Amirh> no that's not ok. at least 5000 RM
[05:29] <Romance> good luck with that
[05:29] <Romance> try find a job in SG
[05:29] <Amirh> how much I need to provide for I and my wife a normal living?
[05:30] <Amirh> in malaysia
[05:31] <Romance> what is your standards of normal living
[05:32] <Amirh> rent an apartment, buying a car, ...
[05:32] <mypapit> what kind of car? is the wife working too?
[05:33] <Romance> there are few cheap apartments around KL but you have to take a risk, mostly are criminal area
[05:33] <Amirh> no nt working
[05:34] <Amirh> an avaerage proton, 20-25 thousands RM
[05:39] <Romance> dont know bro
[05:39] <Romance> try looking for decent job in SG
[05:39] <Romance> a housemaid salary in SG = engineer salary in Malaysia
[05:40] <Romance> or just go to europe, they pay you $30/hour
[05:40] <mypapit> dunno if you can get 5k in .my.... i think mostly the average is around 2.5k - 3.5k
[05:42] <Amirh> oh ok
[05:42] <Amirh> thank you anyway
[05:43] <Amirh> I'm a little better than an ordinary developer, I have to enrich my github repo to make a proof
[05:44] <Romance> may i look into your github
[05:45] <Amirh> it's not enriched yet. I didn't know it could help to find a job. but here: https://github.com/Amirhb
[06:07] <excalibr> Amirh, find a job in singapore but stay in jb (malaysia)
[06:07] <excalibr> :P
[06:07] <Amirh> you're not serious.
[06:08] <excalibr> No im. lot of our malaysian fellow do that
[06:09] <Romance> excalibr: bro ko dapat access twitter ke at least?
[06:11] <Romance> aku xleh buka guna IP streamyx..bila guna ssh tunnel baru boleh
[06:19] <excalibr> bole je ni
[06:20] <excalibr> tu la kan dah kena sekat dgn skmm..lain kali jgn post twit yg menyindir big mama
[06:20] <excalibr> hehe
[06:20] <Romance> dah boleh da..tadi sejam x dpt langsung
[06:20] <Romance> ni masalah stimix kat area sini la ni
[06:21] <excalibr> maybe routing dia tgh kacau kot
[06:24] <Romance> excalibr: tapi apsal facebook gmail google boleh pula..twitter ni server dia kat USA je ke..gile kedekut
[06:31] <excalibr> :)
[06:39] <mypapit> :p
[13:22] <unitepotsmokers> helow


[21:44] <belkinsa> So!  Who is coming to OLF this year?
[21:44] <Unit193> I hope to still.
[21:45] <belkinsa> Alright.
[21:46] <Unit193> Well, for one day.  Hope to meet up with a few people there too, and get another DD sig on my gpg key so I can be a DM.
[21:47] <Unit193> yano: Seems people that know both of us think we've met up in person, btw. :P