 That doesn't happen when the launcher is set to never hide.
[03:27] <LLStarks> daekdroom, it's not a matter of visibility. it takes effort and more clicks than sanity to close multiple popups
[03:50] <FloatingGoat> im trying to make a launcher in unity that first of all is a shortcut to the ubuntu one folder, and second acts allows you to drag files and folders over it to be added to the folder
[03:50] <FloatingGoat> but I have no idea what im doing
[03:51] <FloatingGoat> I have made a launcher that goes directly to ubuntu one, but now it acts as the central file manager icon, no matter what.
[04:08] <FloatingGoat> brbrbrb
[04:32] <FloatingGoat> Im making a launcher right now, can I tell it to launch a second instance of a certain app if a first instance is already running?
[06:23] <FloatingGoat> success!
[09:40] <MaximLevitsky> Why I can't minumize windows by clicking on them in the dash?
[09:51] <zniavre> launcher is to launch apps not minimize them... launcher is not a dock (even if i will prefer this behavior)
[09:52] <MaximLevitsky> and where is the doc?
[09:52] <MaximLevitsky> dock?
[09:53] <zniavre> there is no dock to do this actions there is buttons
[09:54] <MaximLevitsky> OK, thanks, probably will bring some more users to KDE/whatsoever
[09:54] <zniavre> just new behavior to take
[09:55] <zniavre> (i m not using unity cause hardware failure)
[09:55] <zniavre> you can choose gnome-classic at gdm
[09:56] <MaximLevitsky> zniavre: yea? and in next version?
[09:57] <MaximLevitsky> I rather choose KDE that guarantees that it wont disapper in next version
[09:57] <MaximLevitsky> or I rather choose windows
[09:57] <MaximLevitsky> even they don't dare to fuck-up the UI that far
[17:15] <coz_>  hey all
[18:02] <Andy80> hi
[22:05] <ali1234> it strikes me that with all the 3d accelerated user interfaces and now stuff like opencl, we are going to end up needing priority process management for GPUs...
[22:17] <hiatus> well, I tried to like unity, but seriously....
[22:17] <ali1234> how long did you try for?
[22:17] <hiatus> couple days now
[22:18] <ali1234> stick with it for 2 weeks and then go back to classic
[22:18] <ali1234> you'll probably be suprised
[22:18] <ali1234> i was
[22:18] <hiatus> no, there are some things that either do not work properly or are just plain bad design
[22:18] <ali1234> there's bugs yeah
[22:20] <hiatus> for example, if I wanted to add vlc player and stick it to my taskbar, it shows no icon. That seems like a pretty minor fix. Also, whenever I get to the things like "file, edit, etc" they just kinda blur out the name of the application and start the "file, edit" bit where ever. it looks disorderly!
[22:20] <hiatus> and why have two file managers tabbed by default?
[22:20] <hiatus> also, there is no distinction between applications I have open and applications I have pinned
[22:21] <UndiFineD> ali1234, do you know of a bug with dbus ? sometimes I have to enable and disable dbus on compiz to get unity redrawn
[22:22] <hiatus> and there is no simple way to see all of your applications in an orderly fashion! its pretty, but that doesn't mean much if I cant find what I am looking for.
[22:22] <ali1234> hiatus: i disabled global menu, it's just annoying on desktop
[22:22] <hiatus> and sure, you can click the ubuntu icon and search for it, but I dont want to search for every application I want to launch!
[22:22] <ali1234> put it on the launcher then
[22:23] <ali1234> UndiFineD: no idea, sorry
[22:23] <hiatus> I'm more concerned with the fact that this is the default interface. I can see potential and reasons to move away from gnome. but who the heck said "You know what this is missing? two file managers on the panel"
[22:23] <ali1234> it's not perfect
[22:23] <hiatus> well, gnome shell
[22:24] <ali1234> i complained at least as much as anyone else
[22:24] <ali1234> but now i think it's slightly better than classic
[22:24] <hiatus> why didn't they listen!
[22:24] <ali1234> i dunno, that's a whole other problem
[22:25] <hiatus> this isn't brain surgery! there are two file managers! Jesus, I had to rip dibona's head off about android not having a single file manager, and now I have two!
[22:25] <hiatus> sorry, I needed to vent
[22:25] <hiatus> little stuff like that bothers me a lot
[22:25] <ali1234> you mean files and folders?
[22:26] <ali1234> it's not really a file manager
[22:26] <UndiFineD> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/783201
[22:26] <hiatus> well, two icons which essentially take you to the same place
[22:27] <hiatus> yeah, you have files and folders which take you immediately to various folders. and then you have an icon which just takes you to your home folder
[22:27] <hiatus> if I have one, I dont need the other
[22:27] <ali1234> remove one of them then
[22:28] <hiatus> well, like I said. I'll probably customize it to my liking, my upset is that it was the default layout
[22:28] <ali1234> you actually do need them both
[22:28] <hiatus> why?
[22:28] <ali1234> you can't switch between nautilus windows with files+folders
[22:28] <ali1234> and you can't search from the nautilus one
[22:29] <hiatus> you can search from the ubuntu icon, cant you?
[22:29] <ali1234> apparently you can
[22:30] <hiatus> and if you right click files and folders you can just go to your home folder
[22:30] <ali1234> but you can't do window management
[22:30] <hiatus> so, what. having my home folder tabbed saved me from right clicking on files and folders and going to home folder?
[22:30] <ali1234> and even if you remove the home icon it will come back as soon as you open a nautilus
[22:30] <hiatus> yeah, but its not tabbed
[22:31] <ali1234> actually you can't open nautilus from files & folders directly
[22:31] <ali1234> it just opens the search
[22:31] <ali1234> with a custom location
[22:31] <hiatus> right click files and folders and you click on home and it takes you to nautilus in home
[22:32] <ali1234> not here it doesn't
[22:32] <ali1234> home isn't even one of the options
[22:32] <hiatus> erm, my bad. I mean left click on files and folders
[22:33] <ali1234> that does the same thing
[22:33] <ali1234> but without a custom location
[22:33] <hiatus> ah, and there is every folder but home >.<
[22:33] <hiatus> seriously!
[22:33] <ali1234> there's that favourite folders list at the bottom
[22:33] <ali1234> that's it
[22:33] <hiatus> ah, I usually dont add extra folders, thats why it looks the same
[22:35] <hiatus> It seems redundent to have two applications that both launch nautilus in different ways though, so my ranting still stands
[22:36] <hiatus> and what is with the fade out of the application name and then randomly starting the file,edit thing? it looks awful
[22:37] <ali1234> files and folders doesn't launch nautilus though, unless you click a directory
[22:37] <ali1234> it's for searching, i don't see why it's a problem
[22:37] <ali1234> also, turn off global menu
[22:39] <hiatus> well, for one, searching for everything is absurd. Why in gods name would I want my computer to search threw tree's to get to my folder rather then just click on home.  The things old people like was that everything is neat and orderly. They knew all there phone features are in a little text menu called "phone"
[22:47] <ali1234> people like symbian cos it's reliable
[22:47] <ali1234> they don't install a million apps on it -> don't need a fancy menu
[22:47] <ali1234> this is also the reason nokia wants to kill it
[22:47] <ali1234> symbian people just don't care about apps
[22:48] <ali1234> so they can't have their ecosystem
[22:48] <hiatus> people just think that apple can do no wrong and that everyone likes apples interface. so everyone likes walls of apps. People dont care about walls of apps. they care about the app market and marketing ploys and advertisements
[22:48] <ali1234> symbian has a big wall of apps now btw
[22:48] <hiatus> I have never met anyone who said "I like an iphone because I have to cycle threw pages of apps to find what I want!"
[22:48] <ali1234> you don't have to do that
[22:48] <ali1234> you don't have to install hundreds of apps
[22:49] <hiatus> what I mean is, ubuntu currently by default has 80 "apps" installed by default
[22:49] <hiatus> you already have pages
[22:49] <ali1234> most of those apps will never be used
[22:50] <ali1234> so there is no need for a menu
[22:50] <hiatus> each new app in unity. I either have to search for. which wastes time. or search threw pages
[22:50] <ali1234> searching is fast here
[22:50] <hiatus> it is significantly slower then just clicking in a menu bar
[22:51] <ali1234> not really
[22:51] <hiatus> the menu bar is instant, the search, I see wait time on my phenom 2 555, and then thats providing I actually typed it right
[22:51] <ali1234> it's faster for apps i rarely use
[22:51] <ali1234> i don't need to remember where they are
[22:52] <ali1234> i've already forgotten where the screenshot app is
[22:52] <hiatus> is it all that hard to remember where they are when they are categorized?
[22:52] <ali1234> is it all that hard to remember what they are called when it isn't?
[22:52] <hiatus> yes!
[22:52] <ali1234> anywayi am getting old i can't remember stuff any more
[22:52] <hiatus> for example, Is it libre office or open office?
[22:53] <ali1234> it's "spreadsheet"
[22:53] <ali1234> or "word"
[22:53] <ali1234> ok word doesn't work, but spreadsheet does
[22:53] <hiatus> it is NOW, it didn't used to be a version ago
[22:53] <hiatus> lmao
[22:53] <hiatus> see!
[22:53] <ali1234> it's always been spreadsheet since natty came out
[22:54] <hiatus> coming from someone who used to use redhat back in '98....
[22:54] <ali1234> the other one is writer
[22:54] <ali1234> i never use that though
[22:54] <ali1234> i use nano for text editing
[22:54] <hiatus> see, I'm guessing at name
[22:54] <hiatus> names*
[22:54] <ali1234> you dont need to know the name
[22:55] <ali1234> you can guess at what it does
[22:55] <hiatus> you did and failed
[22:55] <hiatus> you typed in word and didn't get what you wanted
[22:55] <ali1234> yes
[22:55] <ali1234> maybe that should be a bug
[22:55] <ali1234> "word processor" should find it
[22:55] <ali1234> and word is a substring of that
[22:55] <hiatus> word processor doesn't work either
[22:56] <ali1234> yes i know
[22:56] <ali1234> so it is a bug
[22:56] <hiatus> but, your trying to optimize subjective things. Everyone has different ways of remembering different things.  I have to guess what the developer decided to use as logic
[22:57] <ali1234> no
[22:57] <ali1234> you have to just type what you want to do
[22:57] <hiatus> except word
[22:58] <hiatus> and you have to spell it correctly
[22:58] <ali1234> apart from anything else all the office stuff is pinned
[22:58] <hiatus> and then ubuntu has to search your hard drive for it...
[22:58] <ali1234> by default
[22:59] <ali1234> anyway i said it's not perfect
[22:59] <ali1234> i still think its better than a big clunky start menu
[22:59] <hiatus> So, let me get this straight. Rather then have a few categories where everything automatically organizes itself. You would rather have a search bar which has to scan libraries, that you have to check your spelling in, and guess what the developer decided what you were searching for
[23:00] <hiatus> thats like saying that Google is better then your bookmarks, so you should just use google for everything
[23:00] <nhaines> hiatus: in my professional experience, that's precisely how people use web browsers.
[23:01] <hiatus> no, no its not. If it was, then facebook would not have received a higher hit rating then google
[23:01] <nhaines> hiatus: yes, it is.
[23:02] <ali1234> yes i know people who type the url in google :)
[23:02] <ali1234> and then click on it
[23:02] <hiatus> because everyone would first start searching for facebook, and facebook google would receive a higher hit rating
[23:02] <nhaines> hiatus: I'd love to believe it isn't true as much (or more) than you do.  ;)
[23:02] <ali1234> also look at the awesome bar
[23:02] <hiatus> I know people do that
[23:02] <ali1234> i hated the idea of it
[23:02] <ali1234> but now i use it all the time
[23:02] <ali1234> because i only have to remember 1 unique part of the url instead the whole thing
[23:02] <hiatus> but people use bookmarks too and people type url's in as well. Currently, the Unity interface forces you to use Google for everything essentially
[23:03] <ali1234> i still hate it cos it makes firefox slow
[23:03] <ali1234> but i can't live without it
[23:03] <hiatus> have you stopped using bookmarks?
[23:03] <ali1234> i never used them
[23:03] <nhaines> hiatus: the Unity interface makes you scroll or search for apps you haven't pinned.
[23:04] <ali1234> bookmarks are too much trouble trying to keep them organized, i can't be bothered
[23:04] <ali1234> same goes for music library
[23:04] <ali1234> i;m tiredof organizing directories by artist/album and fixing filenames
[23:04] <ali1234> it sucks
[23:04] <ali1234> make computer do it for meeeeee
[23:05] <hiatus> the unity interface makes me either pin an app which is impossible to tell pinned apps from launched apps making my life more complicated because an app I pin is one that I use often. so it could be either one. Or use the search bar, which has my favorite apps listed which are probably the ones I pinned!
[23:05] <ali1234> i don't like the app switching mechanic at all
[23:05] <nhaines> hiatus: impossible except for the arrow indicating whether an app is launched.
[23:05] <ali1234> but i don't like any dock
[23:05] <ali1234> you can middle click and you always get a new window btw
[23:05] <hiatus> you know, this is exactly the same mentality that google had about file systems. They said "oh! users don't want file systems!" and then manufactuerers started installing file systems by default because of user demand.
[23:06] <nhaines> Installing file systems?
[23:06] <ali1234> i want filesystems
[23:06] <hiatus> and they were intending to do the same thing for the cr48, until they recieved so many complaints that they included a file system
[23:06] <ali1234> i just don't want them to be the only way
[23:06] <nhaines> hiatus: do you mean file managers?
[23:06] <ali1234> does chromeos even let you write files to disk?
[23:06] <hiatus> erm, yes
[23:06] <ali1234> i thought it was all cloudy
[23:06] <hiatus> file manager*
[23:06] <hiatus> no, chrome os has local storage
[23:07] <nhaines> hiatus: ah.  No, users *don't* want file managers.   People do not want computers to be magic machines that do everything for them because developers can not deliver that experience
[23:08] <ali1234> most people in fact do want this because they already think computers are magic
[23:08] <hiatus> developers can only deliver what they think the users want. which isn't always what the user wants, and then frustrates the hell out of the users who do not think like the developers
[23:08] <ali1234> that's why all existing UIs suck
[23:08] <ali1234> especially KDE
[23:08] <nhaines> hiatus: My job used to be assisting users with hard drives and backup software.  That's *precisely* what they want, and they're angry when it doesn't work that way.
[23:09] <hiatus> oh please, that is my job currently and you know what I do the most repairing peoples computers for people?
[23:09] <hiatus> Install Classic Theme
[23:09] <nhaines> hiatus: and it hasn't changed in the 15 years I've been doing support.   Look at the search bar in windows 7 and vista. NO ONE USES IT!
[23:10] <nhaines> hiatus: and while I would always try to impart just enough knowledge to help them keep their My Documents folder (or equivilant) organized, that's barely more than they want.
[23:10] <hiatus> It searches for your files and applications and everyone searches for "all programs" anyway
[23:10] <nhaines> hiatus: I said nothing of the sort.
[23:10] <ali1234> i've never used vista or 7
[23:10] <nhaines> hiatus: what people do is they just use the "Open File" dialog box as their file manager.
[23:11] <ali1234> i heard there was major butthurt because they disabled classic startmenu in 7
[23:11] <hiatus> only neckbeards do that
[23:11] <nhaines> hiatus: no, the average user does that, and doesn't understand that a Word document could be dealt with abstractly in a generic file manager.
[23:11] <ali1234> most people save in whatever the default location is in the program they use and don't understand it's a directory accessible from the filemanager
[23:12] <ali1234> consequently they don't even know how to say, save a screenshot and then open it in image editor
[23:12] <ali1234> because they think every program has it's own set of files only visible to that program
[23:12] <hiatus> nice way of making it sound complicated. People who use windows open up windows by going to all programs. They then make a file and usually save it to the desktop
[23:12] <nhaines> And I really wish it were different, but it's not.
[23:12] <hiatus> even if they do not understand file systems, they understand desktop and thats fine
[23:12] <ali1234> when what they are actually doing is saving in the program's installation folder (on windows)
[23:12] <nhaines> hiatus: no, most people save it to My Documents.  A lot of people don't even understand how to save something to their desktop.
[23:13] <nhaines> The only way it gets there is if they downloaded it, and then they don't know how to move it.
[23:13] <ali1234> if the program default to my documents :)
[23:13] <nhaines> ali1234: most are, thank godness.  :)
[23:13] <ali1234> they are these days
[23:13] <nhaines> s/godness/goodness/
[23:13] <hiatus> Want me to prove this to you? I will make a video while I am at work and ask various people how they access programs in windows
[23:13] <ali1234> because recent windows has better default permissions
[23:14] <nhaines> hiatus: you can't prove it to me.
[23:14] <ali1234> anecdote proves nothing
[23:14] <ali1234> we can go in circles
[23:14] <hiatus> It will be simple, I can make hundreds. I will ask person after person after person of there computer habits. Record it and put it on youtube
[23:14] <ali1234> do it
[23:14] <ali1234> it would be useful library of information for developers
[23:15] <ali1234> can never have enough usability studies
[23:15] <hiatus> I will, I am so annoyed by how everyone thinks that users want all this shit and whenever I fix a computer I have to re explain all new interfaces over and over and over and over again and hear people say "I miss xp"
[23:16] <hiatus> hell, I even had a guy just yesterday say "If my games supports windows me, I would still be using it"
[23:16] <ali1234> the thing is
[23:16] <ali1234> if you forced those people to use the new thing for 2 weeks most of them would love it
[23:16] <ali1234> but they don't want to learn something new
[23:16] <ali1234> and i can't blame them
[23:16] <ali1234> it takes effort
[23:16] <nhaines> hiatus: that's because people like to learn just enough to get things operational, and then they just want to get stuff done.  Computers are a tool.
[23:16] <ali1234> right
[23:17] <ali1234> people don't want to learn a new way even if it is much better
[23:17] <hiatus> I find they don't. Most run windows 7 and windows vista and they do not use searchbar or know where anything is. Hell, I still don't know how to find things in windows 7
[23:17] <ali1234> so you have to give them an interface where the most obvious way is also the correct way
[23:17] <nhaines> And I'm all in favor of that.  Heck, that's why I use Ubuntu.  Most thing just work and I only have to start tweaking things when I feel like it.
[23:17] <hiatus> unity isn't obvious at all
[23:17] <ali1234> perhaps
[23:18] <ali1234> but neither is xp
[23:18] <hiatus> if it was obvious. I wouldn't be here!
[23:18] <ali1234> or classic gnome
[23:18] <hiatus> xp, Gnome 2, and osx are consistent and thats what people liked about them
[23:18] <nhaines> hiatus: are you arguing that people not learning the new search or organizational features in Vista and 7 is proof that people don't try to learn the least amount to get functional on a computer?
[23:19] <ali1234> os x is not consistent at all
[23:19] <ali1234> it's all about searching
[23:19] <nhaines> I'm not a fan of Windows, but Windows 7's interface is rather nice.
[23:19] <ali1234> can't stand os x myself, mainly because of global menu though
[23:19] <hiatus> eh, they always had the same sort of interface throughout the years, but yeah. I'm getting out of my experience with OSX. I have only fiddled with it
[23:21] <hiatus> I'm a member of gnu, so I try to keep away from osx
[23:21] <ali1234> but windows is fine?
[23:22] <hiatus> sorta, yes. Even stallman says that if you are forced to use proprietary software for work. Then use it, but if someone asks for a pirated copy. It is morally right (maybe not legally, but morally) to pirate it
[23:22] <hiatus> of course, hes against the word pirate. and I need windows for work
[23:22] <ali1234> stallman said that?
[23:22] <hiatus> no one needs osx
[23:22] <ali1234> i disagree
[23:22] <hiatus> he did
[23:22] <ali1234> pirating just gives them more users
[23:22] <ali1234> anyway that's super offtopic
[23:23] <hiatus> he said it was ok, because its about sharing with your neighbor
[23:23] <hiatus> lol it is
[23:23] <ali1234> but it's like sharing the flu with your neighbour
[23:23] <hiatus> would you like another persons opinion on why he hates unity? my firend on messenger is complaining about it as well, and I don't know if you want the feedback
[23:24] <ali1234>  bet it's all been said before
[23:24] <ali1234> there needs to be a website for collating rants or something
[23:25] <hiatus> sportsinaminutewhiteguywhy.jpg why make it big icon appfag freindly? 06:21:09 PM it's messy 06:21:14 PM and dumblooking 06:21:25 PM "but game consoles do that!" 06:21:34 PM um, game consoles are computers whose sole functionality and design is simply to exectue applications on ROM images for the purpose of entertainment 06:22:19 PM you don't compute on them or work amongst different production applications while tabulating on them 06:
[23:26] <hiatus> i figure I would just summarize. hes not real computer savvy
[23:26] <ali1234> well ok
[23:26] <hiatus> lol
[23:26] <hiatus> that was his rant
[23:27] <ali1234> i'm not crazy about the launcher or the lenses
[23:27] <ali1234> but i don't really find it worse than traditional stuff
[23:27] <hiatus> ok, see. another problem. I have his messenger minimalized. and I am in chrome maximized. I look for the tab of where I can access his messenger box...  That shows some real potential
[23:31] <hiatus> video, voice, text, and file transfers that works on windows, osx, and linux with aim and skype integration. Get yahoo on board and we have a fully functional messenger
[23:31] <nhaines> hiatus: try the messaging window.
[23:32] <nhaines> That brings up his messenger window or tab.
[23:32] <hiatus> ah
[23:33] <hiatus> I kept searching around in the top panel
[23:33] <hiatus> i have been minimalizing the browser all this time >.<
[23:34] <nhaines> hiatus: it's been there since 10.04 LTS.  (And application indicators have been one of things that have made Ubuntu massively more convenient for me as opposed to other OSes.
[23:36] <hiatus> the application indicator didn't say anything
[23:36] <hiatus> I clicked on the icon on the side taskbar
[23:37] <nhaines> hiatus: If I misread, and you're actually using Google's binary, then it might not support the messaging menu.  That would be sad.  :(
[23:37] <hiatus> no, no, I'm using empathy at the moment. I do like google talk though
[23:38] <hiatus> it seems we all like the new software center though
[23:38] <hiatus> comments and rating is cool
[23:40] <ali1234> i don't
[23:40] <hiatus> really? why is that?
[23:40] <ali1234> i like to see actual debs
[23:40] <ali1234> with dependencies and installed files
[23:40] <hiatus> well, you can still do that, cant you?
[23:41] <ali1234> however, i understand that most people do not
[23:41] <ali1234> yes, i can just use synaptic like always
[23:41] <hiatus> yeah, no, synaptic is good too, but as far as ease of use goes and overall look. Its decent. no complaints. comments are a nice feature
[23:42] <ali1234> i like that if, say, i want inkscape and it's not installed, the applications lense just offers it to me
[23:42] <ali1234> and that goes through software centre, but that's irrelevant
[23:43] <ali1234> but try for example installing libcurl4-openssl-dev through software centre
[23:43] <Omega> hiatus: A member of GNU using gmail?
[23:43] <nhaines> ali1234: you're not supposed to install that through Software Center.  :)
[23:44] <ali1234> well obviously
[23:44] <ali1234> but i install stuff like that much more often than single apps like inkscape
[23:44] <ali1234> i install all those right away after installing the OS
[23:44] <hiatus> I'm a practical member of gnu
[23:44] <nhaines> And I agree, the application lens's "Available for install" feature is fantastic.  I think it's the right solution to users not understanding the software that's availble to them.
[23:44] <hiatus> yeah, I got the newsletter
[23:44] <nhaines> ali1234: for all that stuff, I just use apt-get.  :)
[23:45] <ali1234> yes i use apt-get a lot as well
[23:45] <ali1234> but i never can remember all the advanced apt commands like "files installed by package" and stuff
[23:45] <ali1234> so i use synaptic, because it's right there onthe menu
[23:46] <hiatus> depending on what I am doing, I use aptitude
[23:46] <nhaines> ali1234: I almost never use synaptic anymore, but I remember it fondly.  :)
[23:46] <Omega> I just use apt, it's the fastest way of getting what I want.
[23:46] <Omega> apt-get instal moo
[23:47] <Omega> < ali1234> but try for example installing libcurl4-openssl-dev through software centre
[23:48] <Omega> I searched for libcurl and it came up.
[23:48] <hiatus> apt-get install girlfriend
[23:48] <hiatus> Unable to locate package girlfriend
[23:48] <hiatus> ^.^
[23:49] <hiatus> no, no, I actually do pretty well
[23:49] <nhaines> :)
[23:49] <nhaines> ali1234: actually, he's right.  You can search by package name and choose "Show x technical items"
[23:50] <ali1234> it's completely broken for me. UI isn;t even redrawing
[23:51] <ali1234> even quitting it didn't help
[23:52] <hiatus> lol, because my friend is insisting. He wants me to post his second rant
[23:52] <hiatus> they are fairly entertaining.   There must be a default.  Canonical is trying to drive usability in a way that has traditionally been ignored in the Free Software ecosystem at large.
[23:56] <nhaines> So now we have Unity as default.
[23:56] <nhaines> But none of the other desktop environments have gone anywhere, and they as easily installable.
[23:56] <ali1234> you said ecosystem without irony
[23:57] <nhaines> It's a useful analogy.
[23:58] <hiatus> I'm not really against unity. I don't think he is either. Another thing he said before was that devs need feedback. whether negative or positive.
[23:58] <ali1234> thing is
[23:58] <nhaines> It needs to be constructive feedback, though.
[23:59] <ali1234> i don't think it necessarily needs to be constructive
[23:59] <nhaines> To be helpful it does.
[23:59] <ali1234> but random rants aren't going to do much
[23:59] <ali1234> "i don't like it" is perfectly valid


[02:40] <MaynardWaters> anyone hanging?
[02:41] <wilee-nilee> MaynardWaters, A few you have an issue?
[02:42] <MaynardWaters> have you ever run ubuntu off of a usb stick?
[02:42] <MaynardWaters> not really an issue
[02:42] <MaynardWaters> a discussion
[02:42] <MaynardWaters> prob better in opensourcemusicians
[02:43] <MaynardWaters> Tiger Bear Wolf- "Input, Output"
[02:52] <wilee-nilee> MaynardWaters, Yes a usb flash works, depending on how hard you drive it pretty much okay but slower, depends on the usb really, I assume this is a full install.
[03:02] <MaynardWaters> yea
[03:02] <MaynardWaters> it was pulled from another machine and magically worked when i plugged it into this old machine. very suprised and pleased
[03:08] <MaynardWaters> what do you use ustudio for wilee-nilee ?
[03:17] <wilee-nilee> MaynardWaters, I don't use it, I was just asked to help here by the channel maker if I could, I use ubuntu in general though. I'm a accomplished multi-instrumentalist though.
[03:17] <wilee-nilee> just bragging hehe
[03:18] <wilee-nilee> ubuntu studio is ubuntu so some things I can help with.
[03:42] <nv_> Ubuntu Studio has been improving the lives of many impoverished artists in my area  :)
[07:59] <Guest68472> my left keft key dont wont  in unbuntu studio  cannot log in to websites  any help u can  give me
[07:59] <Guest68472> left key
[07:59] <Guest68472> shift
[08:00] <Guest68472> the right  shift  key dont do anything
[08:00] <Guest68472> any culue  as t what and why itis like this
[08:04] <nv_> wrong keyboard type selected? check the keyboard settings in the settings manager
[08:04] <nv_> could also be dieing batteries if wireless or bad connection/cable
[08:05] <Guest68472> ok thank you
[08:11] <Guest68472> sorry  for being stupid but im useing a  eMachines PS/2 Black Slim Thin Keyboard 104 Keys Part Numbers: KB-0705, KB-0511
[08:12] <Guest68472> when click left NUMBER  2    I GET  A VOL COME TROL PANEL
[08:12] <Guest68472> THE VOL PANEL
[08:12] <Guest68472> sorry about the caps
[08:12] <Guest68472> changing the keyboard  laybout    /settings  dont  do snything
[08:13] <Guest68472> this is  not cool
[08:13] <Guest68472> i know there is a work around for it  just cant  get a keybaord  map os  default hot ketys  for unbuntu  i can  remap
[08:14] <Guest68472> easy in windows
[08:14] <Guest68472> but i just installed unbuntu studio 32bit
[08:14] <Guest68472> even in the live  cd  i had the same  problue    dident thin anything of it  knowing it was a live  cd
[08:15] <Guest68472> i could try a different  keybaord  . .  but im thinking   settings  might  be the cause
[08:15] <Guest68472> apt settings
[08:16] <Guest68472> i cannot lobeg in to my acount online  cuz i cannot shift number  -2   at sign  my email adress
[08:18] <Guest68472> so  it  makes  it  a  good challeng  on how to remaps the  kesy  to by pass the  vol panel that pops up when ever i click the left  shift key   the right  shift key is dead
[08:19] <Guest68472> i did mysyste updates and  well   this is a  problum
[08:20] <Guest68472> i dont want to reinstall zorin ..       it  had  no soaftware  suport
[08:20] <Guest68472> thanks
[16:59] <thoudine> any body?
[16:59] <holstein> thoudine: yes.. just ask
[17:00] <thoudine> sorry...


[04:12] <manchicken> Do people know about the problem where apt-get and aptitude both - in French - show O/N instead of Y/N, but O doesn't actually behave as Y?
[05:17] <SpamapS> manchicken: that sounds like a bug to report with 'ubuntu-bug apt'
[05:17] <manchicken> SpamapS: I just wanted to make sure it wasn't an obvious known.
[05:17] <manchicken> (it seemed like it would be)
[05:19] <SpamapS> manchicken: there are many French speaking ubuntu devs so it would probably come to their attention rather quickly.
[18:39] <jbicha> could someone retry these builds? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-utils/<IP_ADDRESS>-1ubuntu1
[18:57] <spstarr> so can someone tell me why Ubuntu does *not* have the newest Samba 4 packages?
[18:57] <spstarr> you're pushing me into an uncomfortable position with PPAs
[19:03] <Ampelbein> spstarr: I'm sure the Debian samba maintainer team appreciates any help in getting more recent version in Debian and by that in Ubuntu.
[19:26] <houseofbean> join #drupal-contribute
[20:26] <penguin42> it's worth watching out for apps that break/change in behaviour now that stuff gets mounted under /media/username rather than /media
[20:28] <ScottK> jbicha: doing
[20:30] <ScottK> done
[20:52] <spstarr> Ampelbein: except sid has 3.6.16 just fine
[20:52] <spstarr> no excuses on Ubuntu's part for not just taking it and building it :P
[20:53] <Ampelbein> spstarr: saucy has 3.6.15, is that really too old?
[20:55] <Ampelbein> spstarr: Or, if you want samba4, saucy has 4.0.3
[21:07] <spstarr> 4.0.3 is old too
[21:07] <spstarr> 3.6.9 in raring caused 100% CPU in winbindd
[21:07] <spstarr> im trying 3.6.16 with debian package in raring to see if its bug
[21:15] <elmo> \


[06:28] <ion> keybuk: Some small fixes, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ion/ubuntu/lucid/mountall/lucid
[06:31] <ion> keybuk: Also an autoreconf commit is needed at some point.
[06:32] <Keybuk> I've been committing autoreconf as I go
[06:32] <Keybuk> it builds here ;)
[06:33] <ion> conf/Makefile.in doesn’t install the new conf/mounted-* files even though conf/Makefile.am was updated.
[06:33] <Keybuk> oh, I probably didn't test that yet
[06:37] <ion> Before making the $MOUNTPOINT guard change, i hosed my virtualbox test machine by running ‘start mounted-tmp’ without thinking. find happily proceeded to delete files under /. ;-)
[06:42] <Keybuk> lol
[06:44] <Keybuk> that's pessimal
[06:46] <Keybuk> I shall take a look
[06:46] <Keybuk> just catching up with e-mail atm
[06:49] <ion> I’m not sure if i’m doing the right thing in the “Handle remounts again” commit, but it does make my VM boot again. The “Now supports multiple filesystem types listed in fstab” commit caused mounted () never to be called after the successful remount of /.
[06:49] <Keybuk> oh, hmm
[06:49] <Keybuk> yeah that's probably a bug
[06:49] <Keybuk> because forcing parse_mountinfo() won't reflag it as mounted
[06:50] <Keybuk> this whole filesystem thing is a hard problem <g>
[06:50] <Keybuk> though I'm happy that more code is moving out of mountall again now - fits the idea better that it'll be a tool to parse files and auto-generate upstart jobs from them
[06:50] <ion> Yeah
[06:52] <ion> Also, i finished Voyager last night. Next up: Enterprise.
[06:54] <Keybuk> my god
[06:54] <Keybuk> you brave man
[06:57] <ion> I’ve been watching all Star Trek series in the original air date order.
[06:59] <ion> Yes, even TAS.
[06:59] <ion> It was hilariously bad.
[07:01] <Keybuk> I watched DS9 end-to-end
[07:01] <Keybuk> I had thought that I hadn't watched much of it before
[07:01] <Keybuk> but in practice, it's turned out that I had watched almost all of the first six seasons
[07:58] <Keybuk> right
[07:58] <Keybuk> that's me caught up on e-mail and bugs now
[07:59] <Keybuk> I shall have breakfast then look at your branch, ion
[08:20] <Keybuk> ion: around?
[17:09] <ion> keybuk: Around.
[18:11] <Keybuk> ion: still around? :)
[18:11] <ion> Yeah
[18:12] <Keybuk> so I've merged a couple of your patches, but not most of them
[18:12] <Keybuk> 196: I don't see what this patch does
[18:13] <Keybuk> from what I can tell, this would hide valid errors that should break the hook script
[18:13] <Keybuk> the stated aim is to handle the file not existing, but the [ -f ... ] && on the front *already*does*that*
[18:13] <Keybuk> no?
[18:14] <ion> [ -f /etc/motd.tail ] && whatever when /etc/motd.tail doesn’t exist → false && whatever → false → the script dies with set -e
[18:14] <Keybuk> no it doesn't
[18:14] <ion> Ah, sorry.
[18:15] <Keybuk> -e will only terminate the script on statuses that you do not check
[18:15] <Keybuk> otherwise it'd terminate on every "if" or "while"
[18:15] <Keybuk> http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/set.html
[18:15] <ion> I just looked at sh -ec '[ -f /etc/motd.tail ] && cat /etc/motd.tail' and saw it returning 1. I should have added ‘; echo foo’ to it to make sure and not just assume.
[18:15] <Keybuk> -e  When this option is on, if a simple command fails for any of the reasons listed in Consequences of Shell Errors or returns an exit status value >0, and is not part of the compound list following a while, until, or if keyword, and is not a part of an AND or OR list, and is not a pipeline preceded by the ! reserved word, then the shell shall immediately exit.
[18:16] <Keybuk> "and is not a part of an AND or OR list" being the key bit
[18:16] <ion> Yeah
[18:16] <Keybuk> 198 I've done in a different way
[18:17] <Keybuk> 199 was fixed already but not pushed
[18:17] <ion> Yeah, you fixed remounts better indeed.
[18:17] <Keybuk> 201 I just don't agree with
[18:17] <Keybuk> if I'd wanted to fix the hooks to only be possible to run with certain mountpoints, I would have just hardcoded the paths instead of actually using $MOUNTPOINT :)
[18:17] <Keybuk> if people run those by themselves, and screw up, that's their own funeral <g>
[18:18] <ion> Alright. But it might be non-obvious to sysadmin that a ‘start mounted-tmp’ might delete everything. How about a [ -n "$MOUNTPOINT" ] check?
[18:19] <Keybuk> if sysadmins are going around starting random jobs without even reading them, that's their own fault
[18:20] <ion> Ok
[18:21] <ion> Is dying if a connection to plymouth fails the right thing to do?
[18:21] <Keybuk> that being said, Upstart should have more of a facility for "required arguments"
[18:21] <Keybuk> ion: yes, I think so
[18:21] <Keybuk> otherwise mountall won't be able to get help from the user
[18:22] <ion> Ok
[23:13] <wasabi> So. Ever considered a feature in Upstart to parse /etc/init.d files and build a bunch of jobs in a rc.* namespace? :)


[14:56] <tsimonq2> o/
[14:56] <tsimonq2> seems updated on ubuntuonair.com
[14:58] <FlamingTurtle> Hi-there ChloeWolfieGirl ;)
[14:58] <ChloeWolfieGirl> Hello :3
[14:58] <tsimonq2> QUESTION: When will davidcalle get Ubuntu Membership?
[14:58] <tsimonq2> (blame Daniel :P)
[14:59] <tsimonq2> there
[14:59] <tsimonq2> just to get that out of the way :P
[14:59] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: How are you?
[14:59] <popey> uhoh
[14:59] <danub> Ubuntu themed flirting, and I thought I have seen it all
[14:59] <FlamingTurtle> ChloeWolfieGirl:   We need to "get organized" about our question                                          about the HUD.
[14:59] <popey> Hello hello
[14:59] <FlamingTurtle> neato popey's here !
[14:59] <jarlath> Hi :)
[14:59] <ChloeWolfieGirl> FlamingTurtle: I'm good with Hud questions x'3
[14:59] <tsimonq2> popey \o/
[14:59] <ChloeWolfieGirl> popey: Hello :3
[15:00] <tsimonq2> popey: ooh who's doing the Q&A? :D
[15:00] <FlamingTurtle> ChloeWolfieGirl: Yeah, but I think they're on to us ... that we keep asking the same Q&A's.
[15:00] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: SInce theres still been no official Ubuntu device for America, when will Michael Hall make his own phone hardware company so he can have an official ubuntu phone?
[15:01] <tsimonq2> XD
[15:01] <ChloeWolfieGirl> FlamingTurtle: I've got 4 current questions about HUD, which may branch off into more or get answered without beiing asked :P
[15:01] <slugjam> QUESTION: what are your favorite new games ? phone/tablet
[15:02] <jarlath> QUESTION: Popey has a video of Dosbox (with Doom) running on the E4.5. I tried this recently with Libertine and it was unusably slow. How did you get this working and how come Libertine is so much slower?
[15:02] <acheronuk> hi tsimonq2 :)
[15:02] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: HUD?
[15:02] <ChloeWolfieGirl> Hi all :3
[15:02] <FlamingTurtle> ChloeWolfieGirl: Your organized - WE need to be organized ... https://youtu.be/PBxqIHj8qRg?t=47s
[15:02] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: How e10 on firefox
[15:02] <tsimonq2> hi acheronuk you made it \o/
[15:02] <jarlath> QUESTION: What improvements to app lifecycle limitations are we likely to see in the future? Irssi would be very handy on the phone.
[15:02] <slugjam> QUESTION: what coding language is best for creating games for ubuntu phone?
[15:03] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: gonna mostly lurk
[15:03] <tsimonq2> ok acheronuk :)
[15:03] <ChloeWolfieGirl> Chicken run x'D
[15:04] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: Has there been any updates to the new scope designs?
[15:04] <popey> we need new questions :)
[15:04] <jarlath> QUESTION: I wanted to snap the amazing (GPL'd) hidclient which would allow us to use Ubuntu phone from your laptop (keyboard/mouse I believe) but it doesn't work with the current bluetooth stack (it worked on 12.04). Who can I talk to about getting it fixed since the author has disappearred?
[15:05] <slugjam> QUESTION: do you use scopes? if you do what are your favourite new scopes
[15:05] <tsimonq2> I'm working on it popey :P
[15:06] <slugjam> QUESTION: android N supports vulkan, how is the vulkan support on ubuntu phone?
[15:06] <FlamingTurtle> QUESTION: I'm having a pulled pork hamburger in Germany - will the Mayonnaise be the same ? Do they even do (westernised staple of) Hellmans . Hamburger being a generic term for this.
[15:06] <slugjam> QUESTION: is it possible to make a 3D game in qml?
[15:07] <FlamingTurtle> braintrees
[15:07] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: If Ubuntu Phone was a tree what kind of tree would it be?
[15:07] <danub> QUESTION: Since Canonical/Ubuntu has been so close with Microsoft these days, are there any plans for pushing things towards a point where Ubuntu has a native version of MS Office? (do not kill the noob - if it is not the right type of question, just avoid this stinker kindly and pretend that nothing has ever happened)
[15:07] <jarlath> QUESTION: Libertine apps aren't added to the bash path now. Can that happen? It's handy for CLI apps.
[15:07] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: When will MS bring MS Office to Ubuntu phone?
[15:09] <ChloeWolfieGirl> You get to wear cool sun glasses
[15:09] <jarlath> QUESTION: How come Today scope still has user-facing bugs?
[15:12] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: Will today scope become an agrigator for all scopes with other scopes being more involved in there specific areas?
[15:13] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: Messaging Framework update?
[15:14] <FlamingTurtle> QUESTION: I was on the ReactOS irc channel since last week. An interesting question would be Wat Year Shall "Wine" Become Mainstream enough To Get Sony Vegas or something Like "Adobe Live" MP3 Editor on Ubuntu ?
[15:15] <tsimonq2> QUESTION: What's this "YouTube Live" thing?
[15:15] <tsimonq2> QUESTION: What web browser do you use and why?
[15:15] <tsimonq2> QUESTION: Let's say you're having a problem with Ubuntu.  :D
[15:15] <tsimonq2> Welp, too late... :P
[15:15] <tsimonq2> QUESTION: Do you prefer Facebook or Twitter?
[15:15] <jarlath> QUESTION: Will the dialler app and others ever open in under a second on the E4.5 or should I get a more powerful Ubuntu phone?
[15:15] <tsimonq2> QUESTION: What temperature is it right now by you?
[15:15] <tsimonq2> QUESTION: Have you ever done any development with Qt and/or GTK and if so, what did you do?
[15:15] <tsimonq2> QUESTION: What tool do you use for taking screenshots?
[15:15] <tsimonq2> QUESTION: As Ubuntu 16.10 (the Yakkety Yak) is still in development, are you running it now or are you still on 16.04 LTS?
[15:15] <tsimonq2> QUESTION: Michael, what do you think would be the best device to buy in the US that you can use Ubuntu Touch on (that works with US phone services)?
[15:15] <tsimonq2> hehehehehehehe
[15:15] <jarlath> QUESTION: Why does an 'appparently' simple bug like this take two years to fix? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-clock-app/+bug/1364647
[15:16] <FlamingTurtle> QUESTION: Wouldn't it be great if some of the dev's actually saw the [App Ideas] on r/ubuntuappshowdown coming to fruitition. Note this IS just a shameless plug for on  •  reddit :-)
[15:17] <FlamingTurtle> ^? that was a question by the way !
[15:17] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: DO you remember mr blobby?
[15:18] <danub> QUESTION: I might get stoned by an angry mob, but what do I care: are Ubuntu flavours taking so important and limited resources from development of the main Ubuntu version?
[15:18]  * acheronuk thinks tsimonq2 bombing me with MPs was not an unusual event, considering that small question flurry
[15:18] <FlamingTurtle> mhall119: Note for rate of answers : 30 question just came in.
[15:19] <tsimonq2> correct acheronuk :D
[15:19] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: Will there be another ubuntu edge?
[15:20] <FlamingTurtle> Not yet.
[15:20] <tsimonq2> BACON?!?!? I don't care about the 2D :P
[15:21] <FlamingTurtle> Bacon baps - with mayonnaise MMMMmmmmmmmmm
[15:22] <jarlath> mhall119: New bluetooth stack broke the app which is no longer maintained.
[15:22] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: When will everything be snappied?
[15:24] <ChloeWolfieGirl> I'd probably use the news scope more if there where more news options
[15:25] <tsimonq2> hahahahaha
[15:26] <tsimonq2> +1 mhall119
[15:26] <acheronuk> BBQ sauce
[15:27] <tsimonq2> QUESTION: What's the purpose of the Ubuntu Foundation?
[15:28] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: Why isnt everything a snap yet?
[15:29] <dragon77> ChloeWolfieGirl I would not want everything to be a snap though. Some things should stay as debs. Or as both.
[15:30] <ChloeWolfieGirl> dragon77: I agree, but theres a lot I'd love to see snapped, games, big apps like Krita and kdenlive
[15:30] <dragon77> QUESTION: Are there any Ubuntu or Linux related student ambassadorship programs?
[15:30] <dragon77> ChloeWolfieGirl oh yeah, most user facing apps should be as snaps.
[15:31] <ChloeWolfieGirl> Hey Mister_Q
[15:31] <FlamingTurtle> QUESTION: Does, like other UK companies; Canonical take their wikipedia entry for Ubuntu, seriously enough to edit it themselves, or get their minions to do it ? i.e.  to take out pages from the ubuntu wiki-page collection  e.g. Ubuntu TV ?
[15:31] <FlamesSnake> Hi
[15:31] <ChloeWolfieGirl> dragon77: Definatly would be great
[15:31] <tsimonq2> hi FlamesSnake :)
[15:31] <Mister_Q> hey ChloeWolfieGirl
[15:31] <LordOfDaKittenz> hi FlamesSnake
[15:31] <tsimonq2> FlamesSnake: if you have an Ubuntu-related question, prefix it with "question" in all caps
[15:31] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: When can Ubuntu do everything?
[15:32] <tsimonq2> ^
[15:32] <tsimonq2> good question
[15:32] <FlamesSnake> How
[15:32] <ChloeWolfieGirl> tsimonq2: thank you
[15:32] <tsimonq2> lol ChloeWolfieGirl
[15:32] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: When will we see a new core app updates?
[15:33] <FlamesSnake> Hay stream how to change name
[15:33] <dragon77> You can never prove the absence of software bugs , just a lack of their obvious presence. Software bugs are like ninjas :P
[15:33] <Mister_Q> QUESTION I'm late, did ChloeWolfieGirl asked her usual hud question yet?
[15:33] <acheronuk> I think ubuntu omnipotence is bug no. #2
[15:33] <tsimonq2> yep Mister_Q
[15:33] <acheronuk> or should be
[15:33] <ChloeWolfieGirl> Mister_Q: When do I not?
[15:33] <tsimonq2> FlamesSnake: /nick NewNickname
[15:34] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: If Ubuntu Phone was a cartoon what cartoon would it be?
[15:34] <tsimonq2> *facepalm*
[15:34] <Mister_Q> ChloeWolfieGirl right I just wanted to make sure
[15:34] <tsimonq2> LinuxSnake: hi :)
[15:34] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: Is there any plans to switch from hangouts/youtube live to something more open source?
[15:34] <Mister_Q> tsimonq2 o/
[15:34] <tsimonq2> LinuxSnake: I PMed you the instructions
[15:34] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: What app do you wish was converged the most?
[15:34] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: Didn't you have a load of questions prepared this week ?
[15:35] <tsimonq2> FlamingTurtle: yes I did :)
[15:35] <tsimonq2> FlamingTurtle: they're listing them off now
[15:36]  * FlamingTurtle thought they'd be a stream of questions in a row - followed by <name> runs away !  Haha .
[15:36] <ChloeWolfieGirl> Ask Popey
[15:36] <LinuxSnake_> Hay streamers you should stream at twitch
[15:36] <FlamingTurtle> his eyes burn the screen :)
[15:37] <FlamingTurtle> QUESTION: What store can I buy An Ubuntu Phone from ? If not now ... then when ?
[15:38] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: When will there be a way to hide results with content you dont want to see in the ubuntu store, such as 18+ apps?
[15:38] <LinuxSnake_> 🍦🤔
[15:39] <tsimonq2> mhall119: that's because Google+ is...nevermind :P
[15:39] <dragon77> QUESTION:Can Brasero and K3b burn Blu-rays out of the box, I heard about the old wodim and cdrtools split over licensing?
[15:39] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: Would you rather be a tree or a wasp?
[15:39] <dragon77> *correction cdrkit
[15:39] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: When will ubuntu be as slick as wp or meego?
[15:41] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: WHat do you think of the N5 not getting Android N?
[15:42] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: When we get more apps will the ubuntu update meathord be a big reason for people to try and get use ubuntu after it stopped being supported?
[15:43] <FlamingTurtle> QUESTION: 1001, Why cant we have www.ubuntu.com/Social as a Link in the default ubuntu browser ? So that when people install Ubuntu they know where to share a pic of their desktop / and interact with the community (?)
[15:43] <nexus> QUESTION: What are the main issues moving the phone to 16.04?
[15:46] <FlamingTurtle> QUESTION dpm, Are those surgical tool behind you ?                           .... hope not.
[15:46] <dragon77> FlamingTurtle good idea abut ubuntu social
[15:46] <FlamingTurtle> thanx.
[15:48] <danub> Good to know! Bless my ignorance!
[15:49]  * FlamingTurtle blesses thee.
[15:49] <ChloeWolfieGirl> i've tried to snap :3
[15:49] <FlamingTurtle> me too
[15:50] <FlamingTurtle> did you fiddle with the icon ?
[15:50] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: When can I install ubuntu personal?
[15:53] <tsimonq2> QUESTION: How do you get started contributing to the Ubuntu Phone?
[15:53] <tsimonq2> s/you/I/
[15:53] <tsimonq2> QUESTION: Are you attending Jono Bacon's Reddit AMA on the 30th?
[15:54] <FlamingTurtle> mhall119, dpm, , this is a decent question: QUESTION: 1001+, Why cant we have www.ubuntu.com/Social as a Link, in the default ubuntu browser ? So that when people install Ubuntu they know where to share a pic of their desktop / and interact with the community (?)
[15:54] <nexus> QUESTION: Will phone core apps eventually replace the desktop core apps?
[15:54] <FlamingTurtle> Jonos getting a grilling.
[15:55] <LinuxSnake> hi everybody
[15:55] <tsimonq2> hi LinuxSnake
[15:56] <ChloeWolfieGirl> +1 for that :3
[15:56] <LordOfDaKittenz> Hi LinuxSnake
[15:56] <LinuxSnake> hay streamers can we use color codes
[15:57] <FlamingTurtle> http://www.jonobacon.org/2016/08/23/bacon-roundup-23rd-august-2016/
[15:57] <tsimonq2> LinuxSnake: yep, do Ctrl + C then a number specified here: http://www.mirc.com/colors.html then Ctrl + C again
[15:57] <tsimonq2> or maybe that's just irssi?
[15:57] <tsimonq2> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[15:59] <tsimonq2> hehehehehehe :)
[15:59] <LordOfDaKittenz> QUESTION: who came up with this Q&A?
[16:00] <tsimonq2> a little late LordOfDaKittenz but we'll see ;)
[16:00] <FlamingTurtle> LordOfDaKittenz: Jono Bacon.
[16:00] <LordOfDaKittenz> ok
[16:00] <tsimonq2> dpm, popey, mhall119: Come join for real though. ;) http://www.jonobacon.org/2016/08/23/bacon-roundup-23rd-august-2016/
[16:00] <tsimonq2> wait wrong link
[16:01] <LinuxSnake> BYE
[16:01] <tsimonq2> aha I mean http://www.jonobacon.org/2016/08/17/join-reddit-ama-30th-august-2016-9am-pacific/
[16:01] <tsimonq2> o/ LinuxSnake
[16:01] <popey> thanks everyone
[16:01] <LinuxSnake> yes
[16:01] <FlamingTurtle> thankyou popey.
[16:01] <dpm> thanks all
[16:01] <tsimonq2> dpm, popey, mhall119: 9 AM Pacific time on the 30th
[16:01] <popey> thanks tsimonq2
[16:01] <tsimonq2> thanks everyone!
[16:01] <FlamingTurtle> UK time ?
[16:02]  * popey tries to figure out what that is in normal time
[16:02] <tsimonq2> FlamingTurtle: that's what Google is for ;P
[16:02] <popey> oh, now
[16:02] <FlamingTurtle> I only use a mouse :)
[16:02] <popey> so it's now-o-clock in a week
[16:02] <ChloeWolfieGirl> now-o-clock
[16:02] <ChloeWolfieGirl> Best
[16:02] <FlamingTurtle> bacon-time
[16:03] <ChloeWolfieGirl> popey I like how you didn't elaborate on Mr Blobby any x'D
[16:03] <FlamingTurtle> I could have a beer with Mr Blobby. he's got spunk.
[16:04] <ChloeWolfieGirl> x'3
[16:04] <tsimonq2> popey: would you happen to know if there's a team of people on IRC I could go to for translations? I'm getting a Portugese entry for the "Contact Me" on http://lubuntu.me/cd-size-poll/ (I'm part of the people running the poll)
[16:05] <tsimonq2> popey: it's not urgent but would be nice :)
[16:05] <FlamingTurtle> time for a rolloie
[16:05] <dpm> tsimonq2, #ubuntu-translators, or even better ubuntu-translators(AT)lists(DOT)ubuntu(DOT)com
[16:05] <tsimonq2> thanks dpm :)
[16:06] <dpm> np :)
[16:06] <LinuxSnake> are we done here
[16:07] <tsimonq2> LinuxSnake: yep
[16:23] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: you still there ?
[16:24] <tsimonq2> yep
[16:24] <tsimonq2> what's up?
[16:24] <FlamingTurtle> I recall talking about/to .. your fairly young, right ?
[16:24] <FlamingTurtle> **to you ....
[16:25] <tsimonq2> yes, why?
[16:25] <tsimonq2> oh that's right
[16:25] <tsimonq2> I think I remember you :)
[16:25] <FlamingTurtle> Well I think I run the Lubuntu gplus page .. it needs work.
[16:25] <FlamingTurtle> I dunno, mgoogle plus is old now.
[16:27]  * FlamingTurtle needs a hit of lemonade .. Be right back .
[16:30] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: What would like to do with U untu ? i.e. in the community (?)
[16:31] <tsimonq2> FlamingTurtle: I'm already involved in a lot of different things :)
[16:31] <tsimonq2> tedg: I'm even an Ubuntu member :P
[16:31] <tsimonq2> whoops sorry tedg, meant for FlamingTurtle
[16:32] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: Yes that's what I'm asking - Which projects are you involved with ?
[16:33] <tsimonq2> oh k
[16:33] <tsimonq2> FlamingTurtle: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/tsimonq2
[16:34] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: Terrific testomonials there .. great !
[16:35] <LinuxSnake> who is still here
[16:35] <FlamingTurtle> o/
[16:35] <tsimonq2> o/ LinuxSnake
[16:36] <LinuxSnake> o /
[16:36] <LinuxSnake> what is that mean o/
[16:36] <FlamingTurtle> Ahoy.
[16:36] <LinuxSnake> ok flameingturtle
[16:37] <FlamingTurtle> LinuxSnake: Your new here, right ?#
[16:37] <LinuxSnake> yes
[16:37] <FlamingTurtle> You  run Ubuntu or similar ?
[16:37] <LinuxSnake> yes
[16:37] <FlamingTurtle> which one , then ?
[16:37] <tsimonq2> LinuxSnake is my friend irl, I invited him here
[16:37] <tsimonq2> he uses Lubuntu
[16:38] <FlamingTurtle> oh Ok.
[16:38]  * FlamingTurtle suggests a less slippery username.
[16:38] <FlamingTurtle> but Ok.
[16:40] <tsimonq2> hehehehe :)
[16:41] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: When did you register w/ Ubuntu ?
[16:42] <tsimonq2> FlamingTurtle: ...register?
[16:43] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: Right, When did you sign the User agreement ?
[16:43] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: I mean, originally.
[16:44] <LinuxSnake> #FF0000 this is what color codes mean
[16:45] <FlamingTurtle> LinuxSnake: Take a chill pill.
[16:45] <tsimonq2> yup LinuxSnake
[16:46] <tsimonq2> FlamingTurtle: 2015-08-13
[16:46] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: cheers.
[16:46] <tsimonq2> so just over a year \o/
[16:47] <FlamingTurtle> you've been v. busy :)
[16:49] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: I'd like to talk about Lubuntu ...
[16:49] <tsimonq2> ok :)
[16:50] <FlamingTurtle> What are the most pressing areas that need reflection ?
[16:50] <tsimonq2> reflection as in what?
[16:50] <FlamingTurtle> sans/reflection/ work on ....
[16:51] <tsimonq2> so you're wondering what needs work?
[16:51] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: I'm wondering what areas *yourself* is working on.
[16:52] <tsimonq2> FlamingTurtle: release team mainly, it's complicated, I don't hold any official power but I write all the release announcements nowadays and publish everything
[16:52] <tsimonq2> FlamingTurtle: I'm sort of an assistant release manager
[16:52] <tsimonq2> (if that makes sense)
[16:52] <FlamingTurtle> yes.
[16:52] <tsimonq2> that and QA
[16:52] <tsimonq2> but I'm also leading the LXQt transition
[16:52] <FlamingTurtle> I guess I'm head of the G+ page.
[16:52] <tsimonq2> I'm pushing blockers down one by one
[16:53] <tsimonq2> well hello! :D
[16:53] <tsimonq2> FlamingTurtle: maybe #lubuntu-offtopic would be a better place for this
[16:53] <tsimonq2> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[16:53] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: No i think we are Ok - No one else is here.
[16:53] <tsimonq2> ok
[16:54] <FlamingTurtle> Did you ever look into Razor Qt DE ?
[16:54] <tsimonq2> yes I did
[16:55] <FlamingTurtle> I think the project, passed away . | But it's not a whole long way away, from what you are into, No ?
[16:55] <tsimonq2> LXQt *is* Razor Qt + LXDE
[16:55] <tsimonq2> they've merged
[16:55] <FlamingTurtle> What do you think of Lxle ubuntu ?
[16:56] <tsimonq2> I don't have an opinion
[16:56] <tsimonq2> never used it
[16:56] <tsimonq2> but soon after we actually *switch* to LXQt, they would be smart to follow :)
[16:56] <FlamingTurtle> I think its for older machines.
[16:56] <tsimonq2> LXDE isn't developed upstream anymore
[16:56] <tsimonq2> well so is Lubuntu
[16:57] <FlamingTurtle> they are switching ;)
[16:57] <tsimonq2> when?
[16:57] <tsimonq2> hm
[16:57] <FlamingTurtle> waiting for Lubuntu ... that's why I'm talking to you now :}
[16:57] <tsimonq2> OH lol
[16:58] <tsimonq2> are you part of that team?
[16:58] <FlamingTurtle> I do evangelism.
[16:58] <tsimonq2> I mean for LXLE?
[16:58]  * FlamingTurtle although I don't like that term.
[16:58] <FlamingTurtle> yes.
[16:59] <tsimonq2> oh ok :)
[16:59] <tsimonq2> well if you guys really want to help move it along, have whoever pop into #lubuntu-devel, there's a specific roadblock we're having that requires a bit of upstream work
[17:00] <FlamingTurtle> right-oh
[17:00] <tsimonq2> but I'm the person leading it, so have them shoot me a ping :)
[17:00] <SuperEngineer> FlamingTurtle: re "No i think we are Ok - No one else is here." wrong.  Plenty of us are here, just waiting for the flaming / interogation / whatever  to cease.  However, nice to see you 2 get along so well, never questioning & so accepting of each other ;-)
[17:01] <FlamingTurtle> If you could do a wiki-page on what needs do-ing for the roadmap - I shall be sure to help Lxle team get involved.
[17:01]  * FlamingTurtle stands back
[17:01] <SuperEngineer> lol
[17:01] <FlamingTurtle> SuperEngineer: I think we were talking about moving a distro upstream - that's Ok, right ?
[17:02] <SuperEngineer> [i was only joking - you are cool, no worries]
[17:02] <FlamingTurtle> lol
[17:04] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: Did you get the road-map bit , sorry I got distracted ?
[17:05]  * FlamingTurtle looks aty his LibreOffice slides of flow charts to help.
[17:06] <tsimonq2> got it
[17:07] <tsimonq2> but it's sort of complicated :)
[17:07] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: ~i need to run to get the shops before they close for the evening - Can I still talk with you in 10 minutes or so ?
[17:08] <tsimonq2> sure :)
[17:08] <FlamingTurtle> the best thing is a plan.
[17:08] <FlamingTurtle> an action plan
[17:08] <FlamingTurtle> a plan of action.
[17:09] <FlamingTurtle> actiony planning stuff n'all
[17:10] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2:   Write some more & I shall read it in 5 minutes of your 'plan' with bugs ... cheers.
[17:10] <FlamingTurtle> lets talk bugs.
[17:11] <tsimonq2> ok :)
[17:21] <tsimonq2> FlamingTurtle: https://github.com/lxde/lxqt/issues/349
[17:21] <tsimonq2> FlamingTurtle: that's what we need fixed
[17:27] <FlamingTurtle> back here.
[17:28] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: opening @github
[17:29] <tsimonq2> ok :)
[17:31] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: I think this was meant to be fixed for 16.04.
[17:31] <tsimonq2> FlamingTurtle: this is upstream LXQt
[17:31] <tsimonq2> FlamingTurtle: but *shrug*
[17:31] <FlamingTurtle> right -oh
[17:31] <tsimonq2> FlamingTurtle: I'll play with it more, but I was told that was our blocker
[17:32] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: you're on github ?
[17:32] <tsimonq2> yup
[17:33] <tsimonq2> but like I said, I'll do some further testing in a min
[17:36] <FlamingTurtle> Ok, Ok - I've found you https://github.com/tsimonq2
[17:38] <tsimonq2> yup ;)
[17:39] <FlamingTurtle> You'd think you'd have a patreon or something - but Ok.
[17:40] <FlamingTurtle> it's just I give a quarter of my job's income away on Patreon as I live with my parents.
[17:49] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: You've been doing this a year .. good-oh
[17:50] <tsimonq2> FlamingTurtle: ooh wait you want to send money my way? :O XD
[17:50] <tsimonq2> < FlamingTurtle> You'd think you'd have a patreon or something - but Ok.
[17:50]  * tsimonq2 runs
[17:51] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: take it easy.
[17:51] <FlamingTurtle> I'm not gulling you.
[17:51] <tsimonq2> FlamingTurtle: I was kidding ;)
[17:52] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: It's funny.
[17:52] <FlamingTurtle> I used to be quite religious 20 years ago .. but now
[17:53] <FlamingTurtle> I guess the generosity bit still lingers on, perhaps that's the only bit that does (?)
[17:54] <tsimonq2> FlamingTurtle: if you want to give money, the place where it would be best to put that is http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/contribute ;)
[17:55] <FlamingTurtle> I started with a number of sites
[17:55] <FlamingTurtle> last year I got a bill that was $75 a month to flattr
[17:57] <FlamingTurtle> thats when I called in a few new charity sites and decided that maybe it's be better to go with kickstarter in future.
[18:00] <FlamingTurtle> I gave $1000 to this : http://kck.st/295uI5B
[18:01] <tsimonq2> wow :)
[18:01] <tsimonq2> you have money to give to things, I don't :P
[18:03] <FlamingTurtle> Like I said A starter would be :
[18:04] <FlamingTurtle> http://blog.flattr.net/
[18:05] <FlamingTurtle> I really like Flattr Plus on my Ubuntu fone.
[18:51] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: Are you looking forward to August the 25th when Yakkety Yak reits first beta (?)
[18:54] <tsimonq2> FlamingTurtle: yep :D
[18:54] <tsimonq2> FlamingTurtle: but I'm already running it
[19:38] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: ...... guess thats 'nother roadmap,   then
[19:43] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: Have you ever installed gentoo linux ? http://ow.ly/Ws4W303w5jn
[19:43] <tsimonq2> yup
[19:44] <FlamingTurtle> Which De did you choose ?
[19:45] <tsimonq2> KDE Plasma
[19:45] <tsimonq2> but I didn't keep it
[19:45] <FlamingTurtle> yeah - i went with kde too.
[20:13] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: Wud there be a wallpaper and song contest for the next release.(?) I'm just asking 'cos I play the guitar
[20:14] <tsimonq2> hehehehehehe :)
[20:14] <tsimonq2> that's up to Rafael (artwork guy)
[20:14] <tsimonq2> I'll ask him
[20:16] <FlamingTurtle> I'm keen on the music side = What's your favorite ? #radio perhaps ?
[20:26] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: ^ >
[20:27] <FlamingTurtle> oops
[20:27] <FlamingTurtle> meant to say ^?
[20:27] <tsimonq2> *shrug*
[20:27] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: you don't like music ?
[20:28] <tsimonq2> I do but I'm all over the board
[20:30]  * FlamingTurtle thinks someday he'll show  tsimonq2 a beer and treat him to some young folk covers or other' :)
[20:31] <tsimonq2> heh :)
[20:36]  * FlamingTurtle slides tsimonq2 a sarsaparilla for later - [ take it easy ]. I'm having dinner.
[20:44] <FlamingTurtle> tsimonq2: See ya soonish about the Artwork guy
[20:44] <FlamingTurtle> maybe next week
[20:44] <FlamingTurtle> byer
[20:44] <FlamingTurtle> o/
[20:44] <tsimonq2> o/


[12:22] <LocutusOfBorg> sad day for some builders?
[12:23] <LocutusOfBorg> bos2 e.g. is looking for a stick probably...
[12:27] <LocutusOfBorg> ilasc, maybe^ ? thanks
[12:33] <ilasc> hey LocutusOfBorg  thanks for pointing that out, will have a look shortly
[12:34] <LocutusOfBorg> thanks, there are ~68 builders stuck, and s390x is quite problematic
[12:39] <LocutusOfBorg> I deleted some llvm-* builds on s390x, I hope something else will come up
[13:03]  * cjwatson stabs
[21:15] <wxl> i know there's a way to make a general reference to one's account, i.e. not ~wxl but something like +me or something that would work universally as a link but i can't remember what it is. help?
[21:16] <sarnold> try https://launchpad.net/~/
[21:17] <sarnold> (it's the usual "it worked for me, I'm not 100% sure it'll work for you but I think it does")
[21:17] <wxl> you're a genius sarnold
[21:17] <sarnold> \o/
[22:46] <cjwatson> wxl: You were probably remembering /people/+me, but /~ is indeed the more modern and simpler form of that
[22:47] <cjwatson> Both work though
[22:47] <wxl> way simpler :)
[22:47] <wxl> thanks!


[04:46] <Random832> why don't xdg-open and xdg-settings work?
[04:46] <Random832> and where the heck is the preferred web browser setting stored?
[04:50] <holstein> Random832: i use "sudo update-alternatives --config x-www-browser"
[04:50] <Random832> that's a global setting, not a user-specific one
[04:50] <Random832> it's the principle, and the fact that there is a control panel that doesn't actually do anything
[04:52] <holstein> i used to feel that way to.. now, i try and help out where i can, and just use what works.. and try and get with the philosophy when i can
[04:53] <ianorlin> which version are you using?
[04:53] <holstein> i think the more recent versions are addressing that, for sure
[04:54] <ianorlin> cause there isn't a do nothing contorl panel in 13.04 or 13.10
[04:55] <Random832> ianorlin: the setting modified by the preferred applications control panel is not actually used where it's supposed to be, to be precise.
[04:55] <Random832> when i select a browser, that should control what browser opens with xdg-open http://stuff
[04:55] <Random832> and when i select a mail handler, that should control what runs when i run xdg-open mailto:stuff
[04:55] <holstein> presice is 12.04
[04:56] <Random832> ......
[04:56] <holstein> those issues should be addressed in more recent and supported versions of lubuntu
[04:56] <Random832> precise is a word in the english language
[04:56] <Random832> that has a meaning
[04:56] <Random832> that I was using in a sentence
[04:56] <holstein> Random832: i thought you were answering the question that was asked.. appologies. what version are you using?
[04:56] <Random832> latest
[04:56] <holstein> Random832: so 13.10, then?
[04:56] <Random832> yeah i guess, how do i find out
[04:57] <Random832> i think i upgraded to 13.10
[04:57] <ianorlin> lsb_relase -a in terminal
[04:57] <Random832> yeah 13.10
[04:57] <holstein> Random832: an upgrade would have been from an earlier version. not utilizing installation media
[04:58] <Random832> I don't know why you're asking, since the machinery to make xdg_open work just isn't there - it doesn't even detect that I'm on lxde, and if I modify it to do so, all that does is make it open folders in pcmanfm
[04:58] <Random832> *xdg-open
[04:59] <Random832> it "works" by opening x-www-browser, which does not use the setting from the preferred applications control panel
[05:00] <ianorlin> you can right click there and have another browser on the panel
[05:01] <Unit193> Also, I had an upgrade where I needed to modify a file under ~/.local/share/ before it'd take, but this sounds different.
[05:02] <Random832> right-click where? i don't care about the panel, i want it to open in the right thing when i ctrl-click a link in the terminal
[05:02] <Random832> and ultimately i "fixed" it by changing x-www-browser, but it bothers me that the preferred applications control panel doesn't do anything effective.
[12:51] <lnx2> hello
[12:53] <lnx2> lubuntu is best without apport-gtk
[22:42] <LuvLinuxOS> hi all
[22:50] <SLit_> Hi! Ist there something like Whisker Menu for Lubuntu
[23:36] <FuuqUmiist> how do you change the audio input?
[23:38] <Unit193> alsamixer -> F4
[23:46] <FuuqUmiist> what do you change to set the audio input
[23:56] <maybd082> Hi everyone, I am new to linux. I installed Lubuntu 12.10 from a live cd and now I am upgrading it to Lubuntu 13.04. Is it ok to upgrade it again to version 13.10 or is this too many upgrades?
[23:57] <Unit193> maybd082: Can if you want.
[23:58] <Unit193> FuuqUmiist: Are you using any type of weird devices?  If so, you'll need to use pulse and pavucontrol.
[23:58] <maybd082> No nothing strange, it is just an old 64 bit computer
[23:59] <FuuqUmiist> i plugged in a mic to the laptop but it is not working, the mic that is working is the one integrated into the laptop


[13:38] <Keybuk> sadmac2: yeah, I'd thought of having a big table for lookups of nih_alloc contexts
[13:38] <Keybuk> one advantage to that would be the big table could be "pointer" referenced
[13:38] <Keybuk> so nih_alloc could adopt pointers allocated without it
[13:39] <Keybuk> jMCg: in fact, you hit the nail right on the head
[13:39] <Keybuk> the reason that Upstart doesn't (right now) have "run as user" support is because I want to do something a little more different and clever using capabilities and cgroups
[13:39] <Keybuk> the "run as user" feature will actually run things in a full PAM session for that user (as if they logged in and ran it)
[13:39] <Keybuk> whereas the "non-root service" feature will be much more useful
[13:44] <jMCg> Keybuk: that's very cool -- is there an ETA for that? Or anything I can help with (or code I can steal from you, to use for my long due port of mod_privileges to Linux)?
[13:57] <Keybuk> jMCg: sometime in the next 18 months
[15:58] <sadmac2> Keybuk: are you getting to reading the triggers thing I posted on upstart-devel?
[15:59] <sadmac2> Keybuk: I'm sure you're still swamped :) its just taking a lot of code to implement, and I'd hate to do all of it just to have you slap it down :)
[15:59] <sadmac2> With luck it will at least give us something to talk about in Portland
[16:00] <Keybuk> sadmac2: I haven't read it yet
[16:00] <Keybuk> I'll try and read through it later today :)
[16:00] <sadmac2> cool :)
[21:53] <pquerna> hi, i have a question about upstart... does anyone use it more like.. DJB's Daemontools for managing a small set of services? (not the whole os...)
[21:54] <sadmac2> pquerna: upstart doesn't like not being pid 1 unless you compile it specially
[21:54] <pquerna> yeah, I'm just looking for something somewhat more.. modern to replace daemontools. upstart seems like the coolest kid on the block though.
[21:56] <pquerna> $new_job uses a series of shell scripts spawning things into screen instances.... not exactly what i'd like to use forever :)