[03:50] <superfly> Found Linux (LXDE, I think) running in a furniture store today: https://goo.gl/photos/aRqejhfYnLmrG5Sv7
[04:21] <paddatrapper> superfly: ha cool!
[05:54] <nsnzero> morning all
[06:14] <inetpro> good morning
[06:14] <inetpro> oh and hi nsnzero
[06:15] <nsnzero> hi there inetpro - hope you are well
[06:15] <inetpro> all good thanks and you?
[06:16] <nsnzero> just getting back into the swing of things at work - lol - never knew that i have gotten so lazy
[06:50] <inetpro> nsnzero: just blame the weather :-)
[06:51] <theblazehen> Hi inetpro, nsnzero, all
[06:51] <inetpro> theblazehen: hi
[06:56] <nsnzero> theblazehen: morning
[07:14] <inetpro> theblazehen: interesting discussion you had yesterday
[07:15] <inetpro> tell me, do you run containers inside VMs or do you avoid that as far as possible?
[07:17] <theblazehen> inetpro: I generally run whatever I can in containers, if not, it goes in a VM. For things like docker etc, I run docker containers inside a lxd container (lxd container per "service", eg the web + db + whatever for one service in one lxd container)
[07:18] <theblazehen> I run my vpn sever in a VM rather than container because that had some issues when I tried, and openstack install will likely be inside a few actual VMs
[07:19] <theblazehen> Basically, if it requires privileged stuff it goes into a VM
[07:19] <inetpro> so multiple LXD containers inside a VM is ok?
[07:21] <theblazehen> Well, I'm running my LXD containers on bare metal
[07:21] <theblazehen> But yeah
[07:21] <theblazehen> I think you'd be limited to something like 65536 containers / container host though
[07:22] <theblazehen> Still, you'd need beefy hardware and lightweight containers before you get that far
[07:23] <theblazehen> My openstack is probably gonna be using lxd so that will be lxd in kvm
[07:23] <inetpro> interesting
[07:26] <theblazehen> You can also do lxd in lxd
[07:26] <theblazehen> And docker in lxd, but I had to use the vfs docker storage driver
[07:26] <nsnzero> windows 7 wont install in kvm -
[07:26] <theblazehen> iirc had issues with docker in lxd in lxd
[07:27] <theblazehen> nsnzero: works for me. What issue you having??
[07:27] <theblazehen> s/$//
[07:27] <nsnzero> just gets stuck at the windows 7 splash - i will try to get a prebuilt vm and try that
[07:28] <theblazehen> Which video driver thing you using? qxl, cirrus, vga?
[07:29] <nsnzero> graphic type ? system default spice - this is from the Virtual Machine Manager gui
[07:30] <theblazehen> Video section in virt manager
[07:30] <theblazehen> vga / qxl / cirrus / xen / vmvga etc
[07:31] <theblazehen> And using virtio / sata / ide disk?
[07:31] <nsnzero> i do not see any of those config options
[07:32] <nsnzero> ok now i found it
[07:35] <nsnzero> changed it to vga and sata
[07:35] <theblazehen> What was the disk?
[07:37] <nsnzero> ide
[07:37] <nsnzero> still hangs on the splash screen
[07:37] <theblazehen> Alright. Stuck on the install or boot afterwards?
[07:37] <theblazehen> iirc that change would normally require a reinstall anyway
[07:38] <nsnzero> install boot screen
[07:38] <nsnzero> i will try cloning my working virtual box image into it and see it that works
[07:38] <theblazehen> What's cpu usage like?
[07:39] <nsnzero> spikes then drops to a low value on the graph
[07:39] <theblazehen> Tried core2duo cpu?
[07:39] <theblazehen> Hmm
[07:39] <nsnzero> i5
[07:39] <theblazehen> Is cd / dvd drive ide / sata?
[07:40] <nsnzero> no dvd / cd - using a iso from local stroage
[07:40] <nsnzero> tried windows 7 and windows 10 installation - both hangs at the same place
[07:41] <theblazehen> nsnzero: Talking about virtual cd / dvd drive
[07:41] <theblazehen> Hmm
[07:41] <theblazehen> Yeah, try core2duo cpu
[07:42] <nsnzero> no cd / dvd
[07:59] <theblazehen> nsnzero: What's windows set to install from then in the vm?
[08:00] <nsnzero> local iso copy
[08:01] <theblazehen> Yeah, but you have that iso attached to a cd drive inside the vm right?
[08:04] <nsnzero> yip
[08:04] <nsnzero> and i tried a physical disk in the cd rom - same thing
[08:05] <theblazehen> Do you get a mouse cursor?
[08:06]  * theblazehen _never_ had issues with kvm...
[08:06] <theblazehen> Unless I was doing tricky stuff like passing throught a physical PCIe card
[08:06] <theblazehen> Made by nvidia who don't want you to do that unless you pay them
[08:07] <nsnzero> ctr + alt l releases the cursor - i can force off to close it
[08:08]  * andrewlsd also didn't have issues with kvm + win7
[08:08] <nsnzero> no worries - gives me something to tinker with now
[08:08]  * andrewlsd just hit an nvidia systemd-udev bug
[08:08] <andrewlsd> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1655584
[08:08] <theblazehen> Was a while back, but IIRC I had a bit od issues with NT 4 and kvm though
[08:08] <andrewlsd> meh. systemd-udev starts busyloop and eating all my cpu.
[08:09] <theblazehen> andrewlsd: Just kill the process? `kill -9 1`. Oh, wait...
[08:09] <andrewlsd> ... yeah. systemd.
[08:09] <andrewlsd> (I did the -9, just spawned a new bonkers loop process)
[08:10] <theblazehen> But for real, a SIGSTOP should stop cpu usage
[08:10] <theblazehen> Will still be "running", just not doing anything
[08:10] <andrewlsd> ^ that might work.
[08:10] <theblazehen> Then just SIGCONT if you add a usb drive or something, and SIGSTOP once it's mounted
[08:10] <andrewlsd> blacklisting every nvidia module also works.
[08:10] <nsnzero> use systemctl disable to stop it ?
[08:11] <theblazehen> `systemctl disable --now systemd-systemdd` heh
[08:11] <andrewlsd> HMM.
[08:12] <theblazehen> nsnzero: You still need it during boot, but maybe a stop would work rather than disable
[08:12] <andrewlsd> lol. how would you fix that if you disabled it?
[08:12] <theblazehen> andrewlsd: And if you stop it, make sure it doesn't have a socket as well as a service
[08:12] <andrewlsd> ... and next time boot don't work so much.
[08:12] <andrewlsd> it has several sockets.
[08:12] <andrewlsd> s/had/
[08:12] <theblazehen> andrewlsd: `init=/bin/sh`, `ln -s /usr/lib/systemd/system/whatever /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target/whatever` or so
[08:13] <andrewlsd> (I rebooted after blacklisting nvidia*)
[08:13] <theblazehen> andrewlsd: And nvidia isn't in your initrd?
[08:13] <nsnzero> what version / type of windows 7 did you guys use - 32 or 64 bit
[08:13] <andrewlsd> curiously ... this bug is only hit (in my case) when I bridge thenetwork
[08:13] <theblazehen> interesting
[08:13] <andrewlsd> nsnzero: win7-32bit
[08:13] <theblazehen> nsnzero: 64 bit
[08:13] <theblazehen> although 32 bit xp and below works fine
[08:14]  * andrewlsd admits to having virtualbox atm.
[08:14] <theblazehen> haven't tried 32 bit higher than xp
[08:15]  * andrewlsd always tried to avoid 64-bit stuff on Win, since MSO and flash and java were all 32-bit
[08:15] <andrewlsd> and the only reason I had to run Win was to run 32-bit win-only apps.
[08:16] <nsnzero> i need it for ms access as well
[08:16] <andrewlsd> nsnzero: https://serverfault.com/questions/776406/windows-7-setup-hangs-at-starting-windows-using-proxmox-4-2
[08:16] <andrewlsd> apparently workaround is "cirrus" graphics
[08:16] <nsnzero> i dont think i seen an easier database gui/form creator than ms access
[08:17] <andrewlsd> bug affects Debian and Ubuntu.
[08:17]  * andrewlsd thinks it is not a bug.
[08:17] <theblazehen> Ah.  /me normally just uses cirrus and then rdp anyway
[08:17]  * andrewlsd thinks it _is_ a bug, since default shoudl be better.
[08:18] <andrewlsd> nsnzero: I have an app that uses an embedded "ms access runtime".
[08:18] <andrewlsd> but I still hate db forms.
[08:19] <andrewlsd> they all look like "1992 called, they want their UI back"
[08:19] <andrewlsd> "I have an app" means, "there is an app I use". The app is not mine, honestly!
[08:20] <MaNI> I'd take a 1992 UI over this 'make everything look like a tablet' fad that is now raging on the web
[08:20] <nsnzero> office is a staple in department - so we have to run it - we had a option of openoffice but its since been removed - everything is ms now - even gave us windows 10 and office 2016 for free
[08:20]  * andrewlsd finds a flat-look designer and slaps it till the welts become 3D
[08:20] <theblazehen> MaNI: Agreed. Or nodejs on the desktop
[08:20] <MaNI> internet banking is measurably worse to use than what it was 8 years ago, but hey it looks like a tablet and has lots of moving parts!
[08:21] <theblazehen> I literally saw the windows nvidia driver using nodejs...
[08:21] <MaNI> :(
[08:21] <theblazehen> MaNI: Check out the javascript on the fnb home page :)
[08:21] <theblazehen> IIRC, saw something like "This is a hack. TODO: fix it" somewhere
[08:22] <andrewlsd> ;-P
[08:22] <MaNI> haha
[08:22] <MaNI> in fairness my code has a bunch of those, but I usually have the dignity to automatically strip them out before putting them in a publicly visible place
[08:23] <andrewlsd> ^ TODO is inline documentation ;-D
[08:24] <MaNI> oh wow they've changed it again, and it's even uglier looking than the previous site
[08:24] <andrewlsd> oh no.
[08:25]  * andrewlsd goes to look
[08:25]  * andrewlsd has only used app recently
[08:25] <MaNI> (it's been a while since I last looked at FNB page as I'm now stuck with the green bank)
[08:25] <andrewlsd> probably looks ok on a Retina display.
[08:26] <andrewlsd> (meaning it won't look good on my 1366x786)
[08:27] <andrewlsd> actually. not bad. is narrower than 768. looks like it still fits in 600-width.
[08:28] <andrewlsd> There are a _lot_ of laptops with 1280|1366 x 768 screens
[08:28] <andrewlsd> so nice to see it works nicely with those instead of requiring FHD.
[08:31] <nsnzero> marketing pressure ensures that the stuff is un-necessarily  complex and eye-catching to attract customers
[08:33] <MaNI> Not more than one piece of information allowed per page, must have lots of moving parts, doing anything must require clicking through dozens of pages because if users are clicking throguh dozens of pages then the metrics are better!
[08:40] <theblazehen> 64 bit windows is interesting
[08:40] <theblazehen> C:/Windows/system32 contains 64 bit libraries
[08:41] <theblazehen> C:/windows/SysWOW64 contains 32 bit
[08:41] <nsnzero> andrewlsd: the cirrus display driver works !!! thanks
[08:42] <theblazehen> And C:/windows/system exists so that C:/windows/System~2 == C:/windows/System32
[08:42] <nsnzero> theblazehen: to maintain backward compatibility
[08:42] <theblazehen> nsnzero: Yeah. Still, it's amusing
[08:43] <theblazehen> They try so hard to be compaitble
[08:43] <nsnzero> there is still files from windows 3.1 in there as well
[08:43] <theblazehen> Windows was once patched because simcity uses memory after a free()
[08:44] <MaNI> it's complicated, on the one hand they bend over backwards to be compatible, OTOH they deliberately sabotage backwards compatibility for developers
[08:44] <MaNI> they want backwards compatibility to go, but they want application developers to be the 'bad guys' not themselves
[08:44] <theblazehen> And 16 bit installers still "run" on 64 bit windows because microsoft made a thing to pretty much interpret the installer and reimplement it, so that you can install 32 bit software using 16 bit installers
[08:44] <theblazehen> yeah
[08:45] <theblazehen> Still, impressive that you can upgrade from 3.11 to 10 without a reinstall
[08:45] <MaNI> e.g. With msvc2010 they deliberately made it so anything compiled using it won't work on XP (it's trivial to work around if you know some asm)
[08:45] <inetpro> "it's complicated"
[08:45] <MaNI> so what happens is e.g. the firefox devs want MSVC2010 - so they ditch XP support, people upgrade from XP but hate firefox for it not microsoft
[08:46] <MaNI> it's clever
[08:46] <theblazehen> The NTFS compression isn't the best, because certain operations were slow on the DEC Alpha, which NT ran on, so now we're still stuck with that, heh. Of course we can't just change that now, because older windows still won'
[08:46] <theblazehen> t read it
[08:47] <theblazehen> But do something like when windows xp could upgrade from fat 32 -> ntfs without reinstall - tell people that it will be better, but older windows won't be able to read it
[08:47] <theblazehen> etc
[08:48] <theblazehen> Compression for fs is still a good idea - save space on ssd, and slightly better speed, or significantly improve performance on a HDD
[08:49] <theblazehen> an i3-2100 can compress lz4 at around 80 MB/s with 50% cpu usage, single threaded, and gets decent compression
[08:49] <MaNI> yeah
[08:49] <MaNI> a fast compression algo like snappy or whatever for IO can be great
[08:50] <nsnzero> hhd should have a built-in asic for data compression in the fly
[08:50]  * theblazehen also wishes there was something like java applets, so people will stop writing web pages for cross platform apps as well
[08:51] <theblazehen> nsnzero: I'd say more fpga, could upgrade compression algorithm on the fly
[08:51] <theblazehen> nsnzero: Not on the HDD itself yet, but check out some of the ceph stuff
[08:51] <MaNI> fgpa == expensive
[08:51]  * theblazehen looks for link
[08:51] <theblazehen> MaNI: and an asic isn't?
[08:52] <theblazehen> But yeah, not responsibility of drive
[08:52] <MaNI> less so once mass produced
[08:52] <MaNI> for a small batch more so :)
[08:52] <theblazehen> Would break the idea of "a block device has this size"
[08:52] <theblazehen> http://ceph.com/community/500-osd-ceph-cluster/
[08:54]  * theblazehen still needs to play mith ceph more, the crush map stuff isn't that easy to grok (for me at least) ...
[08:54] <theblazehen> And required for ssd tiering
[09:00] <nsnzero> thanks guys - the windows vm is up and running
[09:01] <theblazehen> nsnzero: Nice
[09:02] <nsnzero> theblazehen: turns out my sshing wasnt working because the router disabled port forwarding - for some unknown reason - enabled it and all is good again
[09:02] <theblazehen> nsnzero:  interesting
[09:03] <theblazehen> nsnzero: Which router?
[09:03] <nsnzero> netgear dgn2200
[09:04] <MaNI> did you save? some routers wipe their settings on reboot
[09:06] <nsnzero> saved it worked fine for some time - all the settings are there - just the enable wasnt ticked (selected) anymore
[09:06] <MaNI> strange
[09:07] <nsnzero> i just ticked (enabled) all the custom settings and bob's your uncle - perfect working ssh
[09:10] <theblazehen> nsnzero: Patch it btw
[09:10] <theblazehen> Bad vulnerability a couple days back
[09:11] <theblazehen> Whoops, weeks*
[09:11] <theblazehen> https://kb.netgear.com/000037343/Security-Advisory-for-Remote-Command-Execution-and-CSRF-Vulnerabilities-on-DGN2200
[09:11] <theblazehen> Which reminds me, I have another one to report to them...
[09:18] <theblazehen> https://bugcrowd.com/netgear eh, not listed. It's just router admin access -> root anyway
[09:19] <theblazehen> Dunno if I should bother
[09:21] <nsnzero> they arent releasing patches for the old netgear - solution buy a new 1- according to them
[09:21] <theblazehen> > NETGEAR strongly recommends that all users change their modem router’s administrator password from the default password. If you change your admin password from the default password, your modem router is protected from the remote command execution vulnerability as well as the CSRF vulnerability. Changing your administrator password is also a good security practice.
[09:21] <theblazehen> Wow. Expected a patch...
[09:22]  * theblazehen wouldn't use a normal router directly imo
[09:22] <theblazehen> Just pass through the PPPoE connection
[09:26] <nsnzero> change your password and you will be ok - fingers crossed
[11:56] <theblazehen> nsnzero: I got debian to run on my DGN2200v3 :)
[11:58] <theblazehen> v4*
[11:58] <theblazehen> https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/44gv6i/debian_runs_on_anything_debian_running_on_my_adsl/
[11:58] <theblazehen> Swap usage though...  Ouch
[12:01] <nsnzero> i wanted to say no ways - but the facts are there
[12:09] <theblazehen> heh :)
[12:09] <theblazehen> Heh, just realized, even if I report that vulnerability to them, they're not gonna patch it anyway
[12:09] <theblazehen> Another reason not to bother
[12:10] <theblazehen> Aand I just realized I linked my reddit account.  Surprised so many routers allow user to leave that at factory setting.
[13:21] <theblazehen> andrewlsd: Heh. I have one that breaks when I tried to change the password...
[16:30] <nsnzero> evening all
[17:07] <superfly> hi
[17:08] <theblazehen> hi all
[18:26] <theblazehen> Just realized I didn't enable VT-x in my bios :( And fixing that would require a reboot


[09:08] <Keybuk> mbiebl: which debian packages?
[11:35] <Keybuk> the speed difference between "initctl list" and "sudo initctl list" is kinda interesting
[14:12] <mbiebl> Keybuk: the packages you uploaded to karmic
[14:20] <Keybuk> mbiebl: of upstart?
[14:20] <mbiebl> yeah
[14:20] <Keybuk> I didn't look in the Debian package
[14:20] <Keybuk> was there something I missed?
[14:22] <mbiebl> Keybuk: for one, there was upstart-job already in their
[14:22] <mbiebl> and you merged the debs into one
[14:22] <mbiebl> (and some smaller stuff)
[14:23] <Keybuk> oh, I didn't know you'd done the upstart-job thing yet
[14:23] <Keybuk> I just stuck a quick-and-dirty shell script in there for now, until you did :)
[14:25] <mbiebl> maybe we should communicate better then ;-)
[14:26] <mbiebl> why the merge of the packages?
[14:27] <mbiebl> imho keeping e.g. the tty job files and the core upstart package separat made sense
[14:44] <Keybuk> the separation we had didn't make much sense
[14:44] <Keybuk> it was kinda arbitrary
[14:47] <Keybuk> ok, I'm confused ;)
[14:48] <Keybuk> you were saying I merged the Debian packages
[14:48] <Keybuk> did you mean that I merged the binary debs together
[14:48] <Keybuk> or merged with the Debian package (compared to the Ubuntu one)
[14:48] <mbiebl> I meant, merged the debs
[14:48] <Keybuk> ahh
[14:48] <Keybuk> right, yeah
[14:48] <Keybuk> we talked about doing that in Ubuntu a while back
[14:49] <Keybuk> since most things will ship their own upstart jobs, and we'll try and push them upstream
[14:49] <Keybuk> even util-linux will ship the jobs for the gettys
[14:49] <Keybuk> nothing would end up in those two packages
[14:49] <mbiebl> so it would be much easier to just drop system-services when util-linux does that
[14:50] <Keybuk> and with merging upstart-compat-sysv back into upstart (since shutdown, etc. are "native" now), they kinda all went away
[14:50] <Keybuk> really?  doesn't make much difference surely?
[14:50] <Keybuk> util-linux will ship /etc/init/getty.conf
[14:51] <Keybuk> you don't have to follow that in Debian of course ;)
[14:51] <Keybuk> that's up to you
[14:51] <Keybuk> what did you mean about upstart-job btw?
[14:54] <mbiebl> Keybuk: my point is not so much about the merge itself but having known beforehand what you are planning
[14:55] <Keybuk> you were in the room at UDS when we talked about it ;)
[14:55] <mbiebl> sorry, then I completely missed that part
[14:55] <mbiebl> when was this discussed, the the binary packages will be merged?
[14:55] <Keybuk> in the packaging policy session I think
[14:55] <Keybuk> the room with the glass wall
[14:56] <Keybuk> the getty bit specifically was in the karmic kms console one though
[14:56] <mbiebl> I honestly can't remember that
[14:56] <Keybuk> rationale:
[14:56] <Keybuk> system-services, currently only contains getty
[14:56] <Keybuk> we want to merge those into one instance job
[14:57] <Keybuk> now we've discovered that we probably need to dynamically create ttys anyway
[14:57] <Keybuk> so it all makes sense to move to util-linux
[14:57] <Keybuk> (leaving that package empty)
[14:57] <Keybuk> startup-tasks is already empty
[14:57] <mbiebl> there is no point arguing about that ;-)
[14:57] <Keybuk> things like running udev belong in udev, setting hostname belongs in util-linux, etc.
[14:58] <Keybuk> upstart-compat-sysv, we discussed here ages ago that it didn't make sense to hang those tools out to dry
[14:58] <mbiebl> arguing about startup-tasks, I mean
[14:58] <Keybuk> they got moved from compat/sysv to util in the main source package (pre 0.5 iirc)
[14:58] <Keybuk> and now the default recommended jobs are shipped in the source package as well
[14:58] <Keybuk> especially when upstart gains native lsb jobs, it becomes increasingly blurry
[14:59] <Keybuk> having everything in one binary package makes the migration easier too
[14:59] <Keybuk> the missing piece is something to migrate custom changes from /etc/event.d to /etc/init
[14:59] <Keybuk> and clean up after
[14:59] <Keybuk> if all the resulting files are in one package, that's easier :p
[15:01] <sadmac2> Keybuk: slightly off topic: you said 0.10/1.0 will continue to support 0.6 job definitions, right?
[15:02] <Keybuk> right
[15:03] <sadmac2> ah. that'll make life easier.
[15:03] <sadmac2> much as I'd love to delete all that code :)
[15:03] <mbiebl> my preliminary packages on http://debs.michaelbiebl.de/upstart/
[15:03] <Keybuk> the idea being that people should feel safe about updating to 0.6 now
[15:03] <Keybuk> and using it as a stable release
[15:04] <Keybuk> while 0.10 is a development release that they can experiment with without worrying
[15:04] <mbiebl> had the maintainer scripts updated to support the conffile migration
[15:04] <Keybuk> mbiebl: ah, I deliberately didn't do that because 0.3 and 0.6 job files aren't directly compatible
[15:05] <mbiebl> Keybuk: hehe, I only migrated the ttyS
[15:05] <Keybuk> you need to do more than just copy them
[15:05] <mbiebl> for the same reason I on rm the old if unmodified
[15:05] <Keybuk> what do you if modified?
[15:05] <mbiebl> keep a copy
[15:05] <Keybuk> in /etc/event.d ?
[15:06] <mbiebl> yeah
[15:06] <sadmac2> Keybuk: did we ever increase the strictness of the 0.6 job format? does having two start stanzas still just silently take the second one?
[15:06] <Keybuk> sadmac2: yes
[15:07] <sadmac2> Keybuk: yes to which question :P
[15:07] <Keybuk> sadmac2: what you said is true; the last of all dup stanzas is used
[15:07] <sadmac2> Keybuk: unfortunate, but not much to be done about it.
[15:08] <mbiebl> Keybuk: regarding the merge: I guess you should also add Conflicts
[15:08] <Keybuk> why unfortunate?
[15:08] <Keybuk> mbiebl: already did that ;)
[15:08] <mbiebl> oh, not in -1
[15:08] <mbiebl> which I looked at
[15:08] <sadmac2> Keybuk: it should at least give a warning. That behavior is almost certainly not reflecting what the user intended when they wrote the job definition.
[15:09] <mbiebl> And why the Provides?
[15:09] <Keybuk> sadmac2: it followed what most other configs do
[15:09] <Keybuk> e.g.
[15:09] <Keybuk>   SomeOption on
[15:09] <Keybuk>   SomeOption off
[15:09] <Keybuk>   SomeOption on
[15:09] <sadmac2> Keybuk: if most other configs jumped off a bridge... :P
[15:11] <Keybuk> sadmac2: I'd push you off ;)
[15:12] <sadmac2> Keybuk: touche
[15:12] <Keybuk> I'd give you a portal gun first
[15:13] <sadmac2> Keybuk: potential release name: "Thank you for helping us help you help us all."
[15:13]  * sadmac2 <3 GlaDoS
[15:23] <mbiebl> Keybuk: about upstart-job
[15:24] <mbiebl> imho it makes sense to map force-reload to restart
[15:25] <mbiebl> I also strip away any leading SK?? from the basename
[15:26] <mbiebl> so it can be started e.g. by /etc/rc2.d/S50cups
[15:27] <mbiebl> Keybuk: Idea is, that packages can potentially start now to ship upstart job files
[15:27] <mbiebl> without strictly having to got from bottom up
[15:28] <mbiebl> e.g. cups could ship a job file today
[15:28] <mbiebl> which then is not started by events
[15:28] <mbiebl> but by sysv
[15:29] <mbiebl> which imho is pretty neat, as we don't to strictly synchronize when to convert which packages
[15:33] <sadmac2> Keybuk: did you look at the state transfer patch?
[17:16] <mbiebl> Keybuk: I think you can drop the Provides from the Ubuntu package
[17:16] <mbiebl> and I also think it doesn't make sense to ship the nih-dbus-binding tool man page
[17:17] <Keybuk> mbiebl: we need those in Ubuntu the way that ubuntu-meta works
[17:17] <mbiebl> how's that?
[17:18] <Keybuk> ubuntu is installed by packages that depend on others
[17:18] <Keybuk> ubuntu-minimal depends on those packages provided
[17:18] <mbiebl> hm, doesn't the latest ubuntu-minimal not only depend on upstart?
[17:19] <Keybuk> latest yes, but not when upgrading from jaunty to karmic when released
[17:19] <Keybuk> the installed one will still depend on upstart-compat-sysv
[17:19] <Keybuk> providing it makes upgrade ordering easier :)
[17:20] <mbiebl> so update-manager will fall over if those provides are not there?
[17:20] <Keybuk> no
[17:20] <Keybuk> it'll just get pessimal ordering
[17:22] <mbiebl> what's pessimal?
[17:24] <mbiebl> ok, seems to be the opposite of optimal ;-)
[18:36] <ion> keybuk: I’m thinking of fixing some typos etc. in the 0.6.0 manpages. How are the lines wrapped? I don’t seem to find a consistent maximum line width or equivalent.


[00:34] <nixternal> http://www.xmlmind.com/xmleditor/persoedition.html
[00:34] <nixternal> that is the about the closes, and the best, wysiwyg editor for docbook
[00:35] <nixternal> impressive actually...though it can't beat my vim :p
[19:55] <DougieRichardson> Evening all - when is string freeze?
[19:57] <sommer> DougieRichardson: march 26: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyReleaseSchedule
[20:00] <DougieRichardson> Cheers, I knew it was in there somewhere but I've a sea of wiki pages open!
[20:02] <sommer> heh, usually the release schedule gets indexed by google pretty fast... so I usually just search on jaunty, intrepid, etc release schedule
[20:02] <DougieRichardson> I just tagged this bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/336629 am I missing something?
[20:02] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 336629 in ubuntu-docs "Package names should be in small letters" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[20:02] <DougieRichardson> Ah the bot speaks


 @ahoneybun i just your message about extra life... thinking about it
 also, what did we agree would be the team name for the autism speaks walk?
 I just got the invite for the Autism Speaks Walk
 @Ivoriesablaze the release party is that day though
 Ubuntu Fl ?
 Ah, then I guess I won't be streaming for it, then lol
 Well, unless we do something to combine it with the release party like a LAN party
 ... That's not a bad idea
 Do I ever have bad ideas?
 I'll only stream, though, as long as everyone else says it's ok
 Wait... dont answer that
 Like, I may make a disclosure form for people to sign, lol
 The LAN party could be after
 True
 I just need to find my power supply for my Asus laptop
 Same
 Ah, that's right, your actual gaming rig
 If I can't find it, I may hint on stream about perhaps having someone donate money to get one off amazon, lol
 What drives the autism speaks interest here?
 I'm autistic
[18:27] <maxolase1squad> One of the members here also has a child with autism.
 We do it as a group for us all
 Its a community event
[18:36] <maxolase1squad> My neighbor's son has autism. It is amasing to hear the stories of how hard they have to fight for him. Of course we are better about helping our autistic population than we have been, but it's dissapointing how far we still have to go.
 @Ivoriesablaze was that name fine?
 what should i make the walk goal?
 150?
 ... i was thinking at least 1000
 in whole, not per person
 Seems realistic as long as we circulate it around enough
 i want to make it 2500, but i think 1000 is more realistic
 Well with enough time sure
 Anyone I to manga?
 Into?
 2500 what?
 Dollars
 we can always change it later
 it's not registered yet because i'm having issues right now, should be up by the end of the night?
 also, think we can get mark shuttleworth to support us in any way?
 even if it's just a press release?
 More likely to get the CEO
 well, a statement from canonical in general would be good
 Agreeed
 Get the page up and let me know
 I'll try
 cool, thanks
 Np
 Also with a link we can write blog posts
 i'll get the link as soon as the team is set up, should be done within an hour or so
 Alright
 When is the walk?
 march 5th
 2017?
 We have a lot of time to promote
 yep


[00:01] <apachelogger> jose: lovely
[00:01] <apachelogger> jose: http://i.imgur.com/fY1FuZ8.png if you could change the size of that I am completely happy
[00:01] <apachelogger> 640x360 should be good enough
[00:01] <jose> sure, let me check
[00:02] <ovidiu-florin> ahoneybun: themes -> theme editor
[00:02] <ahoneybun> I dont see that
[00:02] <ovidiu-florin> refresh the page
[00:03] <jose> apachelogger: I halved the size of that image, if it's good enough
[00:03] <ahoneybun> I see
[00:04] <apachelogger> jose: perfect, thank you
[00:04] <jose> marking it as fix released, then :)
[00:05] <jose> if you find anything else just let me know and I'll be happy to help around
[00:08] <ovidiu-florin> ahoneybun: be carefull, any change in there cannot be reverted
[00:08] <ovidiu-florin> unless you reinstall the theme
[00:09] <ahoneybun> ok
[00:09] <ovidiu-florin> I have to go to bed.
[00:09] <ovidiu-florin> ahoneybun: if you have further questions, just as, and I'll respond in the morning
[00:10]  * ovidiu-florin is going to bed. Good night
[02:44] <apachelogger> oh oh
[02:44] <apachelogger> bug 1275584
[02:44] <apachelogger> oh oh, splitting of the network
[02:45] <apachelogger> hm
[02:45] <apachelogger> Riddell got split out and is lost now
[02:45] <apachelogger> :'<
[02:46] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: bug 1275584 may be because of new qt... I had seen it on saucy the other day and posted a screenshot for riddell... for some reason when twiddling font settings one can end up without antializing
[05:04] <jackyalcine> \o/
[05:04] <jackyalcine> back with you guys :)
[05:04] <jackyalcine> that was scary
[10:23] <apachelogger> oh, freenode still exploding
[10:23] <apachelogger> oh my
[10:24] <apachelogger> ScottK: fwiw https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde4libs/+question/243189 could also be an aptdaemon bug
[10:24] <apachelogger> never ever seen that kind of issue
[10:24] <apachelogger> seems a bit silly to be honest
[10:30] <ghostcube> wouldnt a purge and then a reinstall fix it? instead of a -f?
[10:31] <apachelogger> possibly
[10:32] <apachelogger> the thing is... there's no real reason why apt itself would instruct dpkg to configure something that is already configured unless two apts are running at the same time which would require the user to break a file lock first
[10:32] <apachelogger> so the resolution ought not be as interesting as the cause because the cause is potentially dangerous at a large scale
[11:02] <Mirv> Riddell: would you be ok to add 'ps-jenkins' user to ~kubuntu-packagers? CI team has made a jenkins job that would test build merge requests done against Qt 5 packaging and automerge based on approvals. but it would need ps-jenkins to be part of the team.
[11:21] <apachelogger> poor freenode :(
[12:12] <shadeslayer> Riddell: ping]
[12:16] <BluesKaj> Howdy all
[12:20] <shadeslayer> Riddell: do you know how to create the mirror'd image for the ubuntu slideshows?
[12:20] <shadeslayer> Riddell: s/ubuntu/kubuntu/
[12:23] <BluesKaj> DOS attacks on freenode US ?
[12:24] <mamarley> Yeah, there is a DDoS attack.  I don't think it is limited to USA though.
[12:26] <BluesKaj> yeah, changed to a euro server that connects
[12:45] <lordievader> Good afternoon.
[13:46] <Riddell> shadeslayer: screenie-qt isn't it?
[13:46] <Riddell> Mirv: yes, I'll do that when I get home in a few hours
[13:47] <shadeslayer> Riddell: 0.o
[13:50] <shadeslayer> Riddell: but it's not a screenshot is it?
[13:50] <Riddell> I don't know, on train wifi so can't investigate
[13:50] <shadeslayer> ok
[13:53] <Riddell> screenie-qt does any image I think
[14:05] <Mirv> Riddell: excellent, thank you!
[14:13] <hsitter> anyone fancy doing an API review?
[14:48] <apachelogger> Riddell: git@git.kde.org:scratch/sitter/libkubuntu needs review please
[15:31] <shadeslayer> Riddell: is there a way to move the reflection up? http://paste.kde.org/pb1fc01ae
[15:31] <shadeslayer> er,
[15:31] <shadeslayer> http://i.imgur.com/Q1U5AAe.png
[17:25] <shadeslayer> Riddell: poke poke
[17:32] <Riddell> hi shadeslayer
[17:34] <shadeslayer> Riddell: how do i get the reflection closer to the logo?
[17:34] <shadeslayer> see imgur link above
[17:35] <Riddell> shadeslayer: if there's no slider that does it it'll be a case of krita love
[17:38] <shadeslayer> oh
[17:49] <Riddell> guess it's 12.04.4 testing time
[17:49] <Riddell> !testers | 12.04.4 images
[17:50] <BluesKaj> sorry Riddell, not running any 12.04 installs
[17:54] <lordievader> Riddell: Like taking a time machine back in time, will spin up a vm for it.
[17:57] <Riddell> BluesKaj: now's the perfect time to install one
[17:57] <BluesKaj> no more room Riddell :)
[18:22] <shadeslayer> Riddell: can you send me a mirror'd/fuzzied image of http://imgur.com/DWIOnpK
[18:31] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: halp
[18:33] <apachelogger> flying monkeys, everywhere
[18:35] <shadeslayer> vHanda loves monkeys
[18:35] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: http://imgur.com/44GVkxM
[18:37] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: I thought the harddisk is 30ish?
[18:37] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: it was a extensible HDD
[18:37] <shadeslayer> so I dropped that one and created a fixed size one
[18:37] <apachelogger> the partition should still be maxsize I think
[18:37] <shadeslayer> since that's what I understood from your email
[18:37] <apachelogger> anyway
[18:37] <apachelogger> format the partition
[18:37] <apachelogger> if it still doesn't work you need a bigger disk
[18:38] <shadeslayer> format? It is formatted, with Kubuntu 13.10
[18:38] <apachelogger> no
[18:38] <apachelogger> kubuntu 13.10 is installed on it
[18:38] <apachelogger> which may be why it refuses to resize it
[18:38] <apachelogger> which seems a bit silly but nontheless possible
[18:38] <shadeslayer> oh, I thought it would resize Kubuntu 13.10?
[18:39] <apachelogger> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ogQ0uge06o
[18:39] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: dunno, I always format the thing manually so it doesn't detect anything
[18:39] <apachelogger> plus I always have dynamic expanding disks with 30gib
[18:40] <apachelogger> could be either what is making it work
[18:40] <apachelogger> or both
[18:41] <apachelogger> it definitely has a size aspect though
[18:52] <shadeslayer> aha
[18:52] <shadeslayer> better
[18:56] <shadeslayer> Riddell: kde-developer in Binary New
[18:57]  * shadeslayer is going to leave in the next 10 minutes
[19:00] <shadeslayer> I hate VM's
[19:02] <lordievader> Hehe, the good old kdm. Nice to see it again.
[19:02] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: where is the logic for the partitionbar color?
[19:09] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: I think I noted it in the card?
[19:09] <lordievader> Hmm, wanted test the auto-resize case, however Precise doesn't give me the option...
[19:10] <shadeslayer> not quite
[19:10] <shadeslayer> lordievader: you have to format the partition
[19:10] <shadeslayer> and the partition should have enough space
[19:11] <lordievader> shadeslayer: Hmm that might be it. Let me see if auto-resize is offered if I increase the disk space.
[19:11] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: https://trello.com/c/Mw5FBYpI/77-update-the-colors-in-ubiquity-on-the-partitions-preview-bar
[19:11] <apachelogger> see bottom
[19:11] <apachelogger> first comment I made
[19:12] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: yeah I tried changing lighter and darker to 500
[19:12] <shadeslayer> it looked horrible
[19:13]  * shadeslayer wants to throw smash his keyboard
[19:13] <shadeslayer> stupid VM is stuck on disk IO
[19:13] <shadeslayer> for the last 10 minutes
[19:14]  * shadeslayer gives up and resets
[19:15] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: also kindly read my later comments as they provide additional information on my original assertion...
[19:15] <shadeslayer> I am
[19:16] <shadeslayer> and the more I read, the more I think this is beyond me>.<
[19:20] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: back to todo then ^^
[19:21] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: btw saw the email on Kubuntu Devel
[19:24] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: only getting worse http://wstaw.org/m/2014/02/03/plasma-desktopf31970.png
[19:27] <Quintasan> That reminds me
[19:27] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: I think we should fix some Pastebin plasmoid providers
[19:27] <shadeslayer> oh?
[19:27] <Quintasan> Pastebin.com yields a message about outdated API instead of a link
[19:27] <Quintasan> c3201142.cdn03.imgwykop.pl/comment_gMPe2J3KyK9M5NX9b5iB1EzWq3JqKY6u.jpg
[19:27] <Quintasan> meh
[19:28] <shadeslayer> feel free to fix
[19:28]  * Quintasan adds todo
[19:28] <Quintasan> christ
[19:28] <Quintasan> My todo is getting longer and longer
[19:28] <Quintasan> But I have some free time now.
[19:30] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: that's why I said that a pattern may be more suitable
[19:30] <apachelogger> there'll probably never be sufficient contrast from just altering the colors
[19:31] <shadeslayer> ah
[19:31] <apachelogger> it's still the same blue just in a difference spot in the color model
[19:31] <shadeslayer> true
[19:31] <shadeslayer> lets see how this would work
[19:31] <apachelogger> unless you tear one up to nigh white or the other down to nigh black
[19:31] <shadeslayer> *nod*
[19:32] <apachelogger> which supposedly is counterproductive since the notion is that one sees it is the same partition as above but split into two distinct halfs
[19:32] <shadeslayer> makes sense
[19:33] <apachelogger> anyway, afk
[19:50] <lordievader> shadeslayer: Resizing the disk was the fix. Auto-resize is an option now.
[20:05] <ScottK> Riddell: Have you been tracking where we are on going to Qt5 5.2?
[20:11] <ahoneybun> http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/02/03/linus-torvalds-applauds-nvidia-for-posting-early-tegra-k1-open-source-drivers-to-the-nouveau-project/
[20:45] <shadeslayer> Riddell: any reason why libhupnp-dev is in kdelibs build conflicts?
[20:49] <ahoneybun> ovidiu-florin, ping
[20:49] <ovidiu-florin> ahoneybun: pong
[20:51] <ahoneybun> what do you think of the site?
[20:53] <ovidiu-florin> ahoneybun: I've also done some modifications today
[20:53] <ovidiu-florin> I moved the meta widget in the footer
[20:53] <ovidiu-florin> the one with the login button
[20:53] <ahoneybun> nice
[20:53] <ahoneybun> like the theme ?
[20:53] <ovidiu-florin> yes
[20:54] <ovidiu-florin> I'd like to change the default link color
[20:54] <ahoneybun> I think we can use the space where the linux icon is to tell what technologies we use
[20:54] <ahoneybun> Yea
[20:54] <ovidiu-florin> orange is not apropriate
[20:54] <ovidiu-florin> the front page should be customizable
[20:55] <ovidiu-florin> and we should be able to set a static page as the front page
[20:55] <ahoneybun> well
[20:55] <ahoneybun> it was but we cant have the slide show with it
[21:00] <ahoneybun> I fixed the things you said
[21:00] <ahoneybun> brb
[21:01] <ovidiu-florin> ahoneybun: I've created the pages for the Navigation menu Links and set the links to them
[21:06] <ovidiu-florin> does anyone have access to the current kubuntu site via ftp or ssh?
[21:07] <ovidiu-florin> I would like for someone to get all the pictures that are uploaded on that server and send them to me or ahoneybun to upload them to the new site, so that they are available for use while migrating.
[21:08] <ovidiu-florin> there should be a single folder that can be downloaded.
[21:17] <lordievader> Precise amd64 testing done; Runs and installs smoothly :D
[21:18] <ahoneybun> back
[21:19]  * ahoneybun had access to the site for editing but lost the passwords
[21:25] <ahoneybun> ovidiu-florin, I'm adding stuff for the download page
[21:46] <ahoneybun> every page has the content from the main site but the feature tour
[21:46] <ahoneybun> ovidiu-florin, ^^
[21:47] <ahoneybun> and contribute
[22:00] <ovidiu-florin> I've updated the links from http://test.kubuntu.co.uk/community/ that lead to the local pages for Romanian, German, and Turkish
[22:02] <ahoneybun> nice
[22:02] <ahoneybun> I'm trying to get the header right
[22:02] <ahoneybun> but the nav bar is not centered with it
[22:07] <apachelogger> hm
[22:08] <apachelogger> there's somethign off
[22:08] <apachelogger> maybe I am imagining things but if you go from download to feature tour all elements will be slightly moved to the right
[22:08] <apachelogger> just thought I'd mention it
[22:09] <ahoneybun> I can't see it
[22:10] <apachelogger> just switch between the two and watch the logo
[22:10] <apachelogger> it is jumping around
[22:10] <apachelogger> or at least it is in chrome here, might be a bug in the browser for all I know
[22:11] <ahoneybun> don't see it in firefox
[22:17] <apachelogger> ahoneybun: might also be browser specific, can't test with chromium right now
[22:17] <apachelogger> certainly not good though :P
[22:17] <ovidiu-florin> same here, no problem in chromium
[22:18] <ovidiu-florin> although, ahoneybun a bit of margin or padding in necessary on the left of the logo
[22:18] <ahoneybun> ovidiu-florin, guess I need to edit the css then
[22:19]  * ahoneybun wonders why is there is 2 headers in the css
[22:25] <ahoneybun> fixed the overlaping
[22:26] <ahoneybun> seems it cuts the k in kubuntu though
[22:26] <ahoneybun> I made the image to what it wanted
[22:27] <ahoneybun> maybe I'm just imagining it
[22:56] <ovidiu-florin> ahoneybun: I don't know what you did, it looks the same here
[23:00] <ahoneybun> ovidiu-florin, yea I know
[23:22] <ovidiu-florin> I want to edit a font that is available in Ubuntu, one of the URW series. How can I push that change to be official?
[23:22] <ovidiu-florin> a romanian letter is messed up, absent actually
[23:28] <ahoneybun> I think you make your own branch of the fonts package and make the change then push it


[00:04] <PaulTreselli> hi does anyone hear of problems connecting to Verizon networks?
[12:08] <kanhiya78> anybody herre
[12:09] <kanhiya78> helo everybody