[01:53] <marcoceppi> SpamapS: When you get a chance can you take a look over the Minecraft charm merge?
[01:53] <marcoceppi> https://code.launchpad.net/~marcoceppi/charms/oneiric/minecraft/trunk/+merge/97132
[11:02] <zyga> hi, can I experiment with juju on my single computer?
[11:02] <zyga> without using ec2?
[11:03] <zyga> according to the docs I cannot (it says lxc support is not ready)
[11:03] <zyga> but installing juju on precise pulled in lxc
[11:03] <zyga> so what is it?
[13:00] <james_w> zyga, lxc works, so you can use that
[13:00] <james_w> zyga, where did you see that it isn't ready?
[13:01] <zyga> james_w, in the official juju docs, although they keep talking about natty so they may just be old
[13:01] <zyga> let me pull the link
[13:03] <zyga> james_w, https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/faq.html?highlight=amazon%20ec2
[13:03] <zyga> james_w, "Does juju only deploy to the Amazon EC2 cloud?"
[13:04] <james_w> zyga, thanks
[13:04] <zyga> james_w, do you know of a tutorial that would allow me to learn about juju using my desktop and lxc/kvm?
[13:04] <zyga> james_w, I think those docs are out of date in other areas too: https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/getting-started.html#running-from-ppa
[13:05] <james_w> juju: https://juju.ubuntu.com/CharmSchool
[13:05] <james_w> err, zyga ^
[13:05] <zyga> thanks
[13:05] <james_w> jcastro, where do we file/fix those doc bugs?
[13:06] <jcastro> lp:juju/docs
[13:06] <zyga> is the ppa still recommended?
[13:08] <jcastro> for oneiric?
[13:08] <jcastro> yes, for precise, not sure.
[13:08] <zyga> for precise
[13:08] <jcastro> i've been trying to run distro as much as I can
[13:09] <james_w> I'd say run the distro version in precise
[13:10] <james_w> so that you can report problems and they can be fixed
[13:19] <zyga> on https://juju.ubuntu.com/CharmSchool I see an example local environment
[13:20] <zyga> since I want to use distro packages what should I say in juju-origin:
[13:21] <jcastro> Leaving it out should just work
[13:34] <zyga> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/883240/
[13:34] <zyga> virbr0 is already up
[13:34] <zyga> it was up on boot
[13:35] <zyga> my /etc/network/interfaces contains static configuration for eth0 and lo, if that is relevant
[13:40]  * zyga tries to reboot
[14:18] <zyga> so rebooting did not help
[14:18] <zyga> what should I do when juju fails to boostrap with "2012-03-14 15:16:01,188 ERROR Command '['virsh', 'net-start', 'default']' returned non-zero exit status 1"
[14:32] <jamespage> zyga, can you check that the account you are using is in the libvirtd group please
[14:33] <zyga> jamespage, it is not
[14:33] <zyga> jamespage, should that be automatic?
[14:33] <jamespage> zyga, no
[14:33] <zyga> ah, I see
[14:33] <zyga> sigh
[14:33] <zyga> juju should tell me that
[14:33] <jamespage> zyga, that should be in the docs and juju should tell you - please raise a bug
[14:34] <zyga> reporting now
[14:34] <jamespage> zyga, TBH as soon as you add that group it will be able to see the default network (which should already exist)
[14:34] <zyga> it does
[14:34] <zyga> sigh
[14:34] <zyga> can I do this without logging out?
[14:37] <zyga> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/juju/+bug/955110
[14:37] <_mup_> Bug #955110: juju should tell me that I'm not in libvirtd group when running juju bootstrap <amd64> <apport-bug> <precise> <juju (Ubuntu):New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/955110 >
[14:38] <jamespage> zyga, I don't think so
[14:39] <james_w> newgrp libvirtd
[14:40] <zyga> james_w, wow, I learned something very cool today, thanks
[14:42] <jamespage> nice
[14:47] <jamespage> zyga, hmm - the docs do actually refer to this - https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/provider-configuration-local.html
[14:47] <jamespage> but it would be nice for juju to check
[15:42] <jdstrand> hi, it's me again and I'm having trouble with juju lxc
[15:43] <jdstrand> I'm am trying to perform the mir for juju, but can't get it to work the way I thought it should work
[15:43] <jdstrand> s/mir/mir review/
[15:44] <jdstrand> you may recall last time I tried to do this inside a vm. today I am trying on bare-metal
[15:47] <jdstrand> here are the commands I ran: http://paste.ubuntu.com/883423/
[15:47] <jdstrand> looking at juju debug-log, I see:
[15:47] <jdstrand> 2012-03-14 10:27:59,548 Machine:0: juju.agents.machine INFO: Started service unit wordpress/0
[15:47] <hazmat> jdstrand, what's the current status output?
[15:47] <jdstrand> (it took a while to bootstrap)
[15:48] <hazmat> jdstrand, bootstrap on local doesn't do very much, it does most of the work creating the first unit
[15:48] <hazmat> and subsequent units in that env are fast (lxc-clone)
[15:48] <jdstrand> hazmat: http://paste.ubuntu.com/883430/
[15:48] <jdstrand> hazmat: I meant debootstrap
[15:49] <jdstrand> hazmat: I did notice some firewall denials on the host, which thought could be the problem. so I did: sudo ufw allow in on virbr0 from <IP_ADDRESS>/24
[15:50] <jdstrand> hazmat: I have not exposed this yet, cause the state is still pending
[15:51] <hazmat> jdstrand, hmm
[15:51] <hazmat> jdstrand, can you ssh into the unit
[15:52] <hazmat> jdstrand, you did the firewall manipulation after launching the unit?
[15:52] <hazmat> er. deploying the charm
[15:52] <jdstrand> hazmat: I only noticed the firewall denials after deploying the charm, so yes, after
[15:52] <jdstrand> I did not try to do the charm again
[15:53] <jdstrand> hazmat: is there a convenient way to get the ip address for the machine?
[15:53] <jdstrand> s/machine/container/
[15:54] <jdstrand> (remember I'm still a juju noob :)
[15:54] <hazmat> jdstrand, yeah.. if the container didn't external connectivity during its setup, that would be problematic for it.. inside of $data-dir/units  there should be symlinks to the unit logs which would be helpful to see
[15:55] <jdstrand> hazmat: what is the proper way to blow away this charm, destroy-service?
[15:55] <SpamapS> jdstrand: to get the ip btw, I usually just 'grep dnsmasq /var/log/syslog'
[15:56] <jdstrand> SpamapS: ah right, this is just a libvirt thing. thanks
[15:56]  * jdstrand is not new to libvirt
[15:56] <SpamapS> Right it uses the libvirt networking
[15:57] <jdstrand> ssh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>worked
[15:57] <SpamapS> jdstrand: next thing to check is whether or not juju is running (should be, via an upstart job)
[15:58] <SpamapS> I think.. I'm not sure if that landed before or after 457, which is what is in precise
[15:58] <jdstrand> SpamapS: on the host, right?
[15:58] <SpamapS> jdstrand: there should be a unit agent running inside the container
[15:58] <SpamapS> jdstrand: and there would be a machine agent running on the host
[15:58] <jdstrand> $ ps auxww|grep juju
[15:58] <jdstrand> root       372  0.0  0.6  34972 14036 ?        Ss   15:28   0:01 /usr/bin/python -m juju.agents.unit --logfile=/var/log/juju/unit-wordpress-0.log
[15:59] <jdstrand> (that's in the container, so yes)
[15:59] <SpamapS> yay
[15:59] <hazmat> jdstrand, yes
[15:59] <SpamapS> jdstrand: so you should also have a charm log visible on the host at ${data-dir}/${USERNAME}-${environment-name}/units/wordpress-0/charm.log
[16:00] <jdstrand> the agent is running on the host as well
[16:00] <hazmat> jdstrand, there's a machine agent juju.agents.machine on the host that's deploying the containers + unit agents
[16:00] <SpamapS> hazmat: remind me, why doesn't debug-log show install anymore?
[16:01] <jdstrand> SpamapS: no charm.log, only container.log and unit.log (a symlink)
[16:01] <hazmat> SpamapS, argh.. i thought that was fixed, it hasn't really ever done it reliably to be honest. its worth a bug report
[16:01] <SpamapS> jdstrand: oh I think unit.log is the one.
[16:01] <hazmat> yup
[16:01] <SpamapS> hazmat: there's an open bug
[16:02] <SpamapS> bug #760818
[16:02] <_mup_> Bug #760818: debug log is initialized too late in the unit agent startup, to catch install/start hooks <juju:Confirmed> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/760818 >
[16:02] <hazmat> sheesh that's old
[16:03]  * hazmat needs caffienates
[16:05] <jdstrand> SpamapS: what am I looking for in unit.log?
[16:06] <SpamapS> jdstrand: that should be the record of the install of wordpress
[16:06] <jdstrand> I do see some zookeeper errors
[16:06] <SpamapS> the timeouts are just ZK being pedantic
[16:07] <jdstrand> it ends wth initiated connection to server [<IP_ADDRESS>:56835]
[16:07] <jdstrand> session establishment complete on server [<IP_ADDRESS>:56835]
[16:07] <jdstrand> Closing zookeeper sessionId=0x1361181aacd0007 to [<IP_ADDRESS>:56835]
[16:07] <jdstrand> there is nothing about wordpress
[16:07] <jdstrand> (except ZOO_INFO@log_env@662: Client environment:host.name=jamie-local-wordpress-0)
[16:08] <SpamapS> interesting.. I guess I'm forgetting where the charm log ends up
[16:08] <jdstrand> SpamapS: perhaps destroy-service and try again now that my firewall is in order?
[16:09] <SpamapS> jdstrand: you can just 'deploy local:wordpress wp2' and keep the old one around for comparison..
[16:10] <SpamapS> jdstrand: I'm deploying here so I can jog my memory
[16:10] <jdstrand> SpamapS: so, the first time I used:
[16:10] <jdstrand> juju deploy --repository=/usr/share/doc/juju/examples local:oneiric/wordpress
[16:10] <jdstrand> this time I should use:
[16:10] <jdstrand> juju deploy --repository=/usr/share/doc/juju/examples local:oneiric/wordpress wp2
[16:10] <jdstrand> correct?
[16:11] <SpamapS> jdstrand: correct
[16:11] <jdstrand> 'deploy' command finished successfully
[16:11] <SpamapS> jdstrand: naming the service after the charm is just a convenience
[16:11] <jdstrand> it still says pending
[16:11]  * jdstrand check firewall logs again
[16:13] <jdstrand> did have some ipv6 ping denials in the forward chain...
[16:13]  * jdstrand disables firewall and does wp3
[16:13] <SpamapS> jdstrand: its entirely possible that master-customize step failed.. which would make all subsequent deploys fail. thats in ${data-dir}/user-env/units/master-customize.log
[16:14] <SpamapS> hazmat: been meaning to poke you about that.. master-customize seemes to not detect errors very well
[16:14] <jdstrand> SpamapS: it looks ok
[16:15] <jdstrand> apt-get update
[16:15] <jdstrand> id ubuntu
[16:15] <jdstrand> etc
[16:15] <jdstrand> Container Customization Complete
[16:15] <jdstrand> (of course, I think we knew that cause I could ssh into the machine)
[16:16] <jdstrand> SpamapS: after 'deply' what am I supposed to see in 'juju status'?
[16:16] <SpamapS> jdstrand: well, thats just the thing, one of the steps in the middle can fail and it still starts the containers
[16:16] <jdstrand> deploy*
[16:16] <SpamapS> jdstrand: you should see the unit wordpress/0 with a state: started
[16:16] <SpamapS> or, wp3/0
[16:16] <_mup_> Bug #955209 was filed: charm.log uses 'Error' for all stderr messages <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/955209 >
[16:17] <jdstrand> SpamapS: yeah, I've never seen that :(
[16:17] <jdstrand> SpamapS: I'll be happy to paste master-customize.log, but it looks ok
[16:18] <SpamapS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/883485/
[16:18] <SpamapS> jdstrand: is that more like what you have?
[16:19] <SpamapS> hazmat: would be nice if destroy-environment cleaned up datadir some.. I just realized mine has a ridiculous amount of cruft in it
[16:20] <jdstrand> SpamapS: yes, that is exactly what I have for wordpress/0
[16:21] <jdstrand> SpamapS: wp2/0 and wp3/0 now have a public-address
[16:21] <SpamapS> jdstrand: but still pending?
[16:22] <jdstrand> SpamapS: master-customize.log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/883488/ (would be great if I could set a local mirror)
[16:22] <jdstrand> SpamapS: juju status: http://paste.ubuntu.com/883491/
[16:22] <jdstrand> oh, I just ran it again and it started!
[16:23] <jdstrand> both wp2 and wp3
[16:23] <SpamapS> yay
[16:23] <jdstrand> SpamapS: how long does it typically take for a charm to go to 'started'?
[16:24] <SpamapS> jdstrand: the local provider is particularly slow because it has to download everything as individual packages and unpack them...
[16:25] <SpamapS> jdstrand: with EC2, you have the Ubuntu cloud image, which has a lot of deps already installed, so the time between saying 'deploy' and the install hook runite a bit less
[16:26] <SpamapS> jdstrand: On my very-slow-disk macbookpro, I said 'deploy' some 8 minutes ago, and its justn ow instaling the wordpress package. :-P
[16:26] <jdstrand> SpamapS, hazmat: thanks for your help and explanations. seems my bare-metal woes were firewall related. I will continue this later (I have calls now)
[16:27] <jdstrand> SpamapS: ok, thanks. that is helpful
[16:27] <jdstrand> SpamapS: it would be nice if there was a command to see the progress of the deployment...
[16:27] <jdstrand> anyhoo-- call!
[16:27]  * jdstrand steps away
[16:35] <SpamapS> jdstrand: btw, the request for allowing a local mirror is here; bug #897645
[16:35] <_mup_> Bug #897645: juju should support an apt proxy or alternate mirror for private clouds <cloud-init:Fix Committed> <juju:Confirmed> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/897645 >
[16:36]  * SpamapS raised it to High since its such a common request
[16:36] <jdstrand> SpamapS: awesome, thanks :)
[17:45] <jcastro> m_3,  I just did a review call with msm about our events and stuff.
[17:45] <jcastro> all our major events are handled
[17:46] <jcastro> m_3, but we need to know your plans for all the language confs your hitting this summer
[17:46] <jcastro> so she can ping the organizers and get you what you need.
[17:46] <jcastro> so if you could ping her this week that would be grand.
[18:05] <benji> I did a review-of-sorts of https://code.launchpad.net/~rockstar/juju/setuppy-fixes/+merge/96902.  I'm not an approved reviewer so I marked it as a comment in hopes that it will be helpful to the person that reviews it for real.
[18:11] <mars> Hi guys, is it possible to call a custom cloud-init script from a juju charm?
[18:12] <mars> I have some custom initialization I would like to use on all of the hosts I create, and cloud-init's config files could save me from writing boilerplate code.
[18:21] <SpamapS> mars: we're working on supporting the "policy" use case in a somewhat different way
[18:22] <mars> SpamapS, ?
[18:22] <mars> Sorry, I don't understand what the 'policy' use case is
[18:22] <SpamapS> mars: basically a new feature called "subordinate charms" will land soon that will allow you to define policy for the box and deploy it along with other charms
[18:23] <SpamapS> mars: what you're talking about is policy.. it goes across all your machines.. you want users or monitoring or whatever...
[18:23] <SpamapS> mars: so, you'll write a charm that enables that, and then say 'deploy mystuff' and then 'add-relation service1 mystuff'  and 'add-relation service2 mystuff' and they'll be deployed together
[18:24] <SpamapS> benji: thanks btw!
[18:24] <mars> ok
[18:24] <mars> SpamapS, I was looking to do something a bit different
[18:25] <mars> There are few problems with LXC Lucid containers that I was hoping cloud-init could help smooth over
[18:25] <benji> SpamapS: my pleasure
[18:25] <mars> And one of my charms needs to have a custom repository set up in order to fetch the sourcecode: again, cloud-init makes that very simple
[18:26] <SpamapS> mars: lucid is not a tested target for juju.. we don't test on python2.6.. so its possible the agents won't even start up
[18:27] <SpamapS> mars: so do shell scripts. :)
[18:27] <mars> hmm, good to know
[18:27] <SpamapS> mars: seems like your install hook is a simpler place to setup your custom repository than cloud-init
[18:27] <mars> SpamapS, yeah, I have written that in shell, and in Python fabric.  But I wanted to skip the boilerplate 'bootstrap' targets.
[18:28] <SpamapS> I do think we need to look at adding some kind of way to easily include shared code in charms. Right now the best way to do that is with packages in PPA's.. but that seems too complicated for the simpler use cases
[18:39] <mars> SpamapS, so Google has a couple references to Juju using cloud-init internally.  If that is true, then I assume there is no way to extend or call cloud-init with my additional configuration?
[19:08] <SpamapS> mars: juju uses cloud-init for orchestra and ec2, but its not fundamental to juju..
[19:09] <SpamapS> mars: so if you do any customization around cloud-init .. you won't be able to repeat on the local provider, which does not use cloud-init
[19:10] <mars> ah
[19:10] <mars> ok
[19:11] <SpamapS> mars: I agree that boilerplate is bad.. juju needs to do more to allow cross charm sharing of code. Right now.. packages are the best way to do that.
[19:11] <SpamapS> mars: note that there is precedent for this in the charm-helpers-sh package
[20:30] <_mup_> juju/increase-session-timeout r450 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:30] <_mup_> increase default session expiration timeout from 10s to 20s (same ping count/timeTick)
[20:31] <_mup_> juju/force-upgrade r463 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:31] <_mup_> remove cli short switch, force should be explicitly spelled
[20:32] <_mup_> juju/scheduler-peek-list r473 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:32] <_mup_> additional error scenario testing around revamped scheduler
[20:45] <_mup_> txzookeeper/managed-watch-and-ephemeral r47 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:45] <_mup_> new managed client subclass that tracks watches and ephemerals
[21:18] <jdstrand> so, I rebooted my machine that had local working right, and now get:
[21:18] <jdstrand> $ juju status
[21:18] <jdstrand> could not connect before timeout
[21:18] <jdstrand> 2012-03-14 16:05:21,185 ERROR could not connect before timeout
[21:18] <jdstrand> nothing is running-- not zookeeper, not the agents, not the containers
[21:19] <jdstrand> I tried 'juju bootstrap' again, and it told me it was already bootstrapped
[21:19] <jdstrand> is there some procedure I missed for rebooting a machine with local lxc and juju?
[21:21] <m_3> jcastro: will do
[21:44] <gary_poster> SpamapS, hey, you around?  I'd like to talk about our team's difficulties with the debian build for the python charm helpers
[21:44] <gary_poster> my team's, I should say :-)
[21:46] <SpamapS> gary_poster: yeah
[21:47] <SpamapS> gary_poster: been fighting the email demons all day, but I have a todo to review that whole merge proposal. :)
[21:48] <gary_poster> Thanks SpamapS.  Yeah, I've been fighting my own demons today too.  The short of it is that we've lost a lot of man hours on trying to get the debian packaging working on that.  Could we do one of (a) toss it to you, (b) make a separate package and toss it to you, or (c) have some close attention from you to pair with someone to get this packaged?  We'd love to increase our packaging fu, but that's more time for you I suspec
[21:48] <gary_poster> t.
[22:01] <SpamapS> gary_poster: toss to me
[22:01] <SpamapS> gary_poster: will try to carve out some time today, otherwise I'll take a look tomorrow firs tthing.
[22:02] <gary_poster> SpamapS, ok, many thanks.  gmb, do you have something you should merge into that mp, or should SpamapS just look at the original stuff from bac?
[22:02] <gmb> gary_poster, SpamapS: I think the original stuff from bac is sufficient. My additions either a) had no effect or b) broke everything.
[22:02] <gary_poster> lol
[22:02] <gmb> I'll make sure it's in a pristine state.
[22:03] <gary_poster> ok, thanks again SpamapS, and thanks gmb
[22:25] <jdstrand> SpamapS: is there any trick to restarting a machine with a 'local' configuration?
[22:26] <jdstrand> SpamapS: the host that is. if I reboot the host all is gone on reboot
[22:26] <gmb> SpamapS, I've updated the branch to remove my cruft. Best of luck; let me know if you need any help so that I can be conveniently sick that day.
[22:26] <SpamapS> jdstrand: in theory, it should all come back up.. as it should have installed an upstart job to start the machine agent and zk
[22:26] <SpamapS> jdstrand: in practice, I have not tested that. ;)
[22:26] <jdstrand> (ie, zookeeper, twistd, agents, instances and anything else I forgot is not started)
[22:27] <jdstrand> SpamapS: I guess I will file a bug
[22:27] <SpamapS> jdstrand: on my system, I see a juju-clint-local-file-storage.conf and a juju-clint-local-machine-agent.conf .. but nothing that starts ZK
[22:28] <SpamapS> gmb: remind me where the branch is?
[22:28] <jdstrand> SpamapS: I don't have any /etc/init/juju* on the host
[22:29] <SpamapS> jdstrand: should be put there after 'bootstrap' ..
[22:29] <jdstrand> SpamapS: I can say after employing my workaround in bug #955540, I was actually able to use juju wholly within a vm
[22:29] <_mup_> Bug #955540 was filed: juju-create hard-coded to use <IP_ADDRESS> <juju:New> <juju (Ubuntu):Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/955540 >
[22:29] <_mup_> Bug #955540: juju-create hard-coded to use <IP_ADDRESS> <juju:New> <juju (Ubuntu):Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/955540 >
[22:29] <SpamapS> jdstrand: its entirely possible that landed after r457
[22:30] <jdstrand> SpamapS: is there a new version of juju expected in precise soon?
[22:30] <SpamapS> jdstrand: yes there will be a FFe filed as soon as one last feature is done.
[22:31] <SpamapS> jdstrand: thanks for the thorough reviews.. lots of stuff to work on.
[22:32] <jdstrand> SpamapS: heh-- at this point I am just trying to get it to work so I can understand it and pke at it :)
[22:32] <jdstrand> but np
[22:33] <jdstrand> its pretty cool once I got things working
[22:33] <jdstrand> it's
[22:34] <SpamapS> jdstrand: I think we need to make it more visual.. more feedback between the agent coming up and state: changing to started.. so you can watch more
[22:36] <jdstrand> SpamapS: that would be helpful. I'm also finding the lack of man pages with toy and real world examples to be a hinderance (that will be in my MIR review)
[22:36] <jdstrand> I feel like I can actually do enough to test it. but to deploy it in the real world I have a lot too learn
[22:36] <jdstrand> (particularly around zookeeper security)
[22:38] <SpamapS> jdstrand: I wrote a man page 6 months ago but the devs didn't want to keep it up to date. :-/ perhaps I should add it back to the debian package and just commit to updating it as part of the packaging.
[22:38] <SpamapS> jdstrand: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bugs?field.tag=security
[22:38] <SpamapS> jdstrand: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/813773
[22:38] <_mup_> Bug #813773: Juju should have security rules/acls for every path in zk <security> <juju:In Progress by hazmat> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/813773 >
[22:39] <jdstrand> SpamapS: excellent, thanks. are these bugs planned on being fixed in precise, or maybe 12.04.1?
[22:40] <SpamapS> jdstrand: I'm not aware of plans to complete any of those no
[22:41] <jdstrand> SpamapS: re man page> I find them immensely useful, and so do others (as you know, you wrote one :). there are so many urls to go to it is confusing to know what to use. most of the ones I saw were out of date (didn't mention lxc)
[22:41] <jdstrand> heck, the man page could say: for more information, please see http://...'
[22:41] <jdstrand> but something should be up to date :)
[22:42] <jdstrand> I'm sure there are plenty of docs that are up to date-- I just didn't know where to find them is all
[22:45] <SpamapS> jdstrand: good point. I think there's going to be a big documentation push very soon.
[22:45] <jdstrand> SpamapS: that is great to here
[22:57] <gmb> SpamapS, lp:~gmb/charm-tools/add-charm-helpers
[22:58] <SpamapS> gmb: awesome, thanks
[23:02] <hazmat> jdstrand, that should work with the ppa
[23:02] <hazmat> re  reboot
[23:02] <hazmat> not sure that it does with the last precise upload
[23:02] <hazmat> which was right before the restart work landed
[23:05] <jcastro> "I'm sure there are plenty of docs that are up to date-- I just didn't know where to find them is all"
[23:05] <jcastro> hah
[23:05] <jcastro> soon, soon!
[23:06] <jcastro> ah cool, a bug for murder, that should be interesting
[23:07] <jcastro> SpamapS, you still working? Because if you're going to do an initial review of the subway charm I'd like to shoulder surf
[23:31] <adam_g> anyone seen an issue where, after deploying a number of services, a service is missing its machine units?
[23:31] <adam_g> http://paste.ubuntu.com/884080/
[23:32] <adam_g> ^ rabbitmq gets deployed but a machine never provisioned or associated with the service
[23:32] <adam_g> ive been seeing this somewhat frequently but randomly over the last week
[23:51] <SpamapS> jcastro: yeah still working
[23:51] <jcastro> SpamapS, I found some things for him to improve
[23:52] <jcastro> so no need to review it
[23:52] <SpamapS> adam_g: for your issue, have you looked through the provisioning agent log?
[23:53] <SpamapS> jcastro: aight
[23:55] <jcastro> SpamapS, https://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+bug/944246
[23:55] <_mup_> Bug #944246: Charm Needed: Subway IRC client/server <new-charm> <Juju Charms Collection:Incomplete by bkerensa> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/944246 >
[23:55] <jcastro> yeah! I helped! </10 year old>
[23:56] <jcastro> SpamapS, also I owe the team, I used the word idempotent when talking to him
[23:59] <SpamapS> aahhhh!!!!!!
[23:59]  * SpamapS responding to idempotent


[09:59] <rooted-arm> does arm version of ubuntu supports java sdk ? java development and programming in general ?
[10:00] <infinity> rooted-arm: Yep.
[17:04]  * rooted-arm trying ubuntu-arm , brb
[17:48] <rooted> hello :)
[17:49] <rooted> ive tried to install gnome / ubuntu-desktop on my beaglebone, its says need more space 1004 into archieve memory , am using 64gm micro-sd
[17:54]  * rooted l@@ks at the saver orga_ with an inisint* look.
[18:05] <rooted> using raring ubuntu on beaglebone black. rev A6 , i guess.
[20:35] <rooted> /boot/config-3.11.2-armv7-x14 no such file or directory ?
[21:31] <MrBIOS_> hi folks, anybody alive?


[04:36] <valorie> hello all, home from LFNW, had many cool conversations about Kubuntu, loads of fun with son & Scarlett
[04:37] <valorie> gave away scads of stickers and am already scheming to go to SeaGL in Nov?
[12:17] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[19:13] <valorie> sgmoore: did you get home safe and sound?
[20:34] <valorie> https://blogs.kde.org/2024/04/29/amarok-3.0-castaway-released/ btw
[20:34] <valorie> long hard road there!
[20:35] <valorie> Amarok was my first FOSS contributions
[20:35] <valorie> wild ride there for awhile


[16:53] <flocculant> any sensible reason why we have gnome-user-guide in x-core/desktop ?
[18:53] <knome> can't think of any
[18:54] <Unit193> Deps pull it in.
[19:02] <flocculant> I assumed that was the case - can never work out the why :p
[19:44] <flocculant> knome: so re our release notes and the issues with the ubuntu wiki - what do you think's the best thing to do?
[19:45] <flocculant> and if we're going to move them - I guess they'll need somewhere to go
[19:46] <knome> i guess it's fair enough to move to our own wiki if we think it's worth it to copy over some markup from the ubuntu wiki once or twice a cycle
[19:46] <flocculant> mmm
[19:47] <knome> ok, i completely broke my new version of the tracker and rebuilt it better
[19:48] <flocculant> currently with the wiki immutable - means we can't do anything with the current note, not keeping it up to date very regularly atm, but who knows how long it'll be till it's editable
[19:48] <knome> ack
[19:49] <knome> one option is to wait for some time to see if the community team comes up with something reliable with IS
[19:49] <flocculant> right
[19:49] <knome> some time not being too long
[19:50] <flocculant> well
[19:50] <flocculant> perhaps
[19:50] <flocculant> my issue is I guess that in some future when we *do* need to edit - we'll not be able to
[19:50] <knome> yes
[19:51] <flocculant> and I really can't see why IS would give one about us not being able to be up to date for our testers - not their worry :)
[19:51] <flocculant> so bleating in sysadmin's not going to be much use
[19:52] <knome> the ubuntu wiki has some content that is important enough for canonical to let people edit that it's likely getting more friction than the community wiki
[19:52] <flocculant> yup
[19:53] <flocculant> cept release notes aren't on community wiki
[19:53] <knome> no
[19:53] <knome> and shouldn't
[19:54] <flocculant> I guess if someone is canonical then they're going to be able to edit
[19:54] <knome> nope
[19:54] <knome> that shouldn't be it
[19:54] <knome> well at least as i understand it...
[19:54] <knome> anyway, they do want some community be able to edit something
[19:55] <knome> if seems like not and the situation isn't fixed timely, then of course we should use something else
[19:55] <flocculant> I guess the long and short is I'll just move the note I care about editing
[19:55] <flocculant> well - if they're trying to plug a spam hole - there will be a new one as soon as it is plugged
[19:55]  * knome shrugs
[19:56] <knome> i don't really know enough about what's happening to evaluate
[19:56] <flocculant> nope
[19:56] <knome> i know some of the community team have been talking about migrating away from moinmoin
[19:56] <knome> so, maybe something like that is being thought about
[19:57] <flocculant> don't see how that'd help deal with spammers being spammers
[19:58] <knome> maybe there are better spam-detecting measures in other wikis that are actively developed
[19:58] <knome> and automatic spam cleaning
[19:59] <flocculant> no idea
[19:59] <knome> i have no exact idea either; i haven't looked closely at many wikis lately
[19:59] <knome> but i'm sure something like that has to exist, otherwise all wikis would be full of crap
[19:59] <flocculant> aren't they?
[19:59] <knome> well, that's a different matter...
[19:59] <flocculant> :p
[21:14] <Unit193> FWIW, I'm actually running the GTK3/gdbus ports.
[21:15] <Unit193> Tumbler seems fine.
[21:18] <ochosi> Unit193: that's awesome news
[21:18] <ochosi> what was the thing about xfconf you wanted to tell ali?
[21:19] <Unit193> Well there's not a lot that's in the PPA yet.  Uhh, that it's broken in some specific call, can't remember what. >_<  `make distcheck` should find it, or if I can find a pastebin.
[21:23] <Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/8xFJXvYPeAkEsfPJUuex/ it was in #xfce-dev...
[21:24] <ochosi> i see
[21:24] <ochosi> you could submit a bugreport or send it to the mailing list
[21:27] <Unit193> Yeah on the todo.
[21:27] <ochosi> good good, just wanna make sure it doesn't get lost
[21:28] <Unit193> Won't get lost, just ignored. :P


[00:48] <lapion> does anyone know how I can permantly set things such the video-scan method? and the audio delay ?
[00:48] <mcl0vin_> mrand: are you still arround
[00:51] <mcl0vin_> !info channel changer
[00:51] <Zinn> Sorry I don't know about info channel changer
[01:03] <mcl0vin_> anyone here
[03:16] <OpenMedia> Any ETA on 0.23 GM builds showing up in Mythbuntu?
[03:52] <mcl0vin> howdy folks
[03:55] <tgm4883> OpenMedia, GM?
[03:55] <OpenMedia> tgm4883: Golden Master - They have now released 0.23
[03:56] <tgm4883> OpenMedia, there won't be one unless someone gets an SRU for it.
[03:56] <mcl0vin> !seen tgm4883
[03:56] <Zinn> Sorry I don't know about seen tgm4883
[03:56] <tgm4883> we recommend running auto-builds, which has more current versions than 0.23 release
[03:56] <mcl0vin> tgm4883: you back :)
[03:57] <tgm4883> mcl0vin, yep
[03:57] <mcl0vin> am gonna need your help sir , if possible
[03:57] <tgm4883> not at work now either
[03:57] <tgm4883> well, not at my paid job
[03:57] <mcl0vin> ??
[03:58] <tgm4883> mcl0vin, i'm coding now
[03:58] <tgm4883> at home
[03:58] <tgm4883> rather than helping customers at work
[03:58] <tgm4883> so I might actually respond quicker now
[03:58] <mcl0vin> tgm4883: aha
[03:59]  * mcl0vin confused...are you able to help me now or you are busy coding :)
[03:59] <mcl0vin> aha
[04:00] <mcl0vin> tgm4883: so i tested my card, and i record video and audio fine , but still when i try to whatch live tv , i get black screen
[04:00] <mcl0vin> someone mention that i should set up channel changer earlier , but i am stuck
[04:00] <tgm4883> ok, lets see the backend logs from right after you tried watching TV
[04:02] <mcl0vin> !paste
[04:02] <Zinn> Sorry I don't know about paste
[04:02] <mcl0vin> what is the myth paste url again please
[04:03] <tgm4883> !pastebin
[04:03] <Zinn> when pasting more than 5 lines of data please use http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com so you don't flood the channel.  Then please post the link in the channel.
[04:04] <mcl0vin> tgm4883: http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/yNRZMAqR
[04:04] <tgm4883> mcl0vin, this is a recent one?
[04:04] <mcl0vin> yes
[04:05] <tgm4883> odd, cause the last timestamp is
[04:05] <tgm4883> 2010-05-11 19:52:13.658
[04:06] <mcl0vin> tgm4883: the time is not set correctly i think
[04:07] <tgm4883> well the last error before that is
[04:07] <tgm4883> 2010-05-10 21:05:58.157
[04:07] <tgm4883> 23 hours earlier
[04:07] <tgm4883> you just tried watching TV on it?
[04:08] <mcl0vin> yes
[04:08] <mcl0vin> not right now rightr
[04:08] <mcl0vin> maybe 4 hrs
[04:23] <mcl0vin> tgm4883: any luck yet you think
[04:24] <tgm4883> mcl0vin, sorry jumping back and forth
[04:24] <tgm4883> delete that log, then reproduce the issue and upload a fresh log
[04:24] <tgm4883> then we can rule out any of the really old errors
[04:24] <mcl0vin> tgm4883: dude you are helping me so no worries
[04:24] <mcl0vin> ok will do
[04:25] <mcl0vin> front and back
[04:25] <mcl0vin> ?
[04:25] <mcl0vin> delete both of them
[04:25] <tgm4883> yea
[04:34] <st8ofmi9d> Is anyone using a Dell Zino as a MythTV frontend? I was for a few months but I must have had a defective unit because it started overheating. Dell sent me a new unit (came with Win 7 even though my original had Vista) and I installed Ubuntu 9.10 on it. I tried 10.04 but the version of MythTV wasn't compatible with my Mythbuntu backend and I'm not willing to mess with the backend at the moment. After installing 9.10 o
[04:34] <st8ofmi9d> n the new unit, I decided that I would rather use HDMI for video and sound than VGA and the front audio jack (back audiojack didn't work for me before). I needed to use the restricted drivers but I am able to get sound over HDMI except for MythTV. I played around with the MythTV setup/general/audio output device settings but no luck. I have options for ALSA:default, ALSA:spdif, ALSA:surround 5.1, ALSA:analog, ALSA:di
[04:34] <st8ofmi9d> gital, ALSA:mixed analog, ALSA:mixed digital, ALSA:hdmi, ALSA:plugwi0.3, /dev/dsp, /dev/adsp, Jack:output and NULL. I tried most of those options and I still don't get sound from MythTV. I went to Ubuntu's sound preferences and under hardware I have "RS780 Azalia controller" in addition to "Internal Audio" I have the RS780 checked off for sound output. However, when I play a recording under MythTV, I still see "No ap
[04:34] <st8ofmi9d> plication is currently playing or recording audio" under the application tab of the sound preferences screen. What am I doing wrong? If I play sound from something like Pandora.com I see it listed int he applications tab. Has anyone else got MythTV to play sound over HDMI?
[04:34] <Zinn> [pandora.com] Pandora Radio - Listen to Free Internet Radio, Find New Music
[04:36] <tgm4883> st8ofmi9d, don't put that much text in here at one time
[04:36] <tgm4883> I doubt anyone will read all of it
[04:36] <tgm4883> and it just makes people mad
[04:36] <st8ofmi9d> tgm4883: sorry, I was trying to be descriptive
[04:36] <tgm4883> with that being said
[04:36] <tgm4883> superm1 might be running that
[04:48] <mcl0vin> tgm4883: guess what! ..its working
[04:48] <mcl0vin> tgm4883: i got few issues...you ready
[04:54] <mcl0vin> tgm4883: 1) the screen had those two letter box ( two black vertical lines, kinda scqueezing the picture
[04:56] <mcl0vin> tgm4883: 2) i can't get audio out of the box, to my external Amp/receiver. if i use a headphone i can hear audio on one side
[04:56] <mcl0vin> tgm4883: 3) i still need to setup my remote
[04:57] <mcl0vin> tgm4883: 4)How do i setup channel changer
[05:13] <mcl0vin> anyone got autio sync issue
[06:25] <tgm4883> mcl0vin, I'm headed to bed, but for 4) you need to copy that script from mythtv wiki to a location on your backend, then configure your backend to point to that script (in mythtv-setup)
[06:26] <tgm4883> and 3) depending on the remote you have, you might be able to set it up in mythbuntu-control-centre
[06:26] <tgm4883> 1) Make sure your screen resolution is correct. If it is, then in appearance (under settings in the frontend), you can set up overrides for screen deminisions
[07:36] <superm1> tgm4883, if st8ofmi9d comes back around it sounds like he was using pulseaudio...
[07:36] <superm1> so all sorts of problems there if he is trying to enable a specific device
[11:12] <lapion> does anyone know how I can permantly set things such the video-scan method? and the audio delay ?
[14:38] <qwebirc97662> hello
[14:39] <qwebirc97662> I have just downloaded and installed Mythbuntu 10.04 and it is asking for a Login
[14:39] <qwebirc97662> what username and password should I use/
[14:39] <qwebirc97662> ?
[14:40] <rhpot1991> qwebirc97662: at which point?
[14:40] <rhpot1991> are you still on the livecd or did you reboot?
[14:41] <qwebirc97662> livecd I think
[14:41] <qwebirc97662> I put the CD in and restarted the PC
[14:41] <qwebirc97662> now I have a screen with Login in the middle
[14:43] <rhpot1991> qwebirc97662: try no password?
[14:45] <qwebirc97662> what username?
[14:45] <qwebirc97662> I tried root + no passowrd
[14:45] <qwebirc97662> and blank + blank
[14:45] <qwebirc97662> all give auth failure
[14:49] <rhpot1991> try ubuntu and empty
[15:33] <st8ofmi9d> Does anyone have a Dell Zino working as a frontend? I'm having troubles getting sound over HDMI working with MythTV but it works with other applications.
[15:44] <RobertLaptop> Is there anyone around that can help me with an lirc issue?
[15:46] <rhpot1991> !ask | RobertLaptop
[15:46] <Zinn> RobertLaptop: Please don't ask if anyone is around or if it is alright to ask a question.  Many people check back periodically and may answer your question when they see it.  IRC is not normally an instant fix so check back often for an answer.
[16:05] <tgm4883> st8ofmi9d, it might be a pulse audio issue
[16:05] <tgm4883> superm1> tgm4883, if st8ofmi9d comes back around it sounds like he was using pulseaudio...
 so all sorts of problems there if he is trying to enable a specific device
[16:07] <st8ofmi9d> tgm4883: I'm using whatever was standard in the 9.10 install. Does that mean pulseaudio? If so, should I be installing something else?
[16:08] <tgm4883> st8ofmi9d, if you installed mythtv on top of ubuntu, then pulseaudio is installed
[16:08] <st8ofmi9d> tgm4883: Yes, I installed mythtv frontend using synaptic
[16:09] <tgm4883> !pulse%
[16:09] <Zinn> Pulse Audio, aka kitten killer.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PulseAudio for more information.  Pulse Audio seems to cause problems with MythTV.  If you are having trouble, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/460579 for potential work arounds
[16:09] <tgm4883> st8ofmi9d, try that
[16:10] <st8ofmi9d> tgm4883: thank you! I'll try it out.
[16:13] <mrand> hmm... that bug may or may not still apply.  Perhaps it applies to 9.10 but not 10.04.  Will have to check that out some year
[16:16] <st8ofmi9d> mrand: I'm on 9.10 because the mythtv frontend installable from the synaptic package manager is compatible with my backend. My ultimate goal is to PXE boot but I'd have to either run all DHCP on the backend or upgrade to a DD-WRT router...neither of which I'm up to at the moment.
[16:17] <muns> anyone got a working hvr-1600 working in mythbuntu? i'm still having problems after many reinstalls and still getting snow when i know i have cable...maybe i'm doing somethin wrong here that someone can enlighten me on
[16:21] <muns> i'll go thru the driver and kernel install again maybe i missed somethin
[16:21] <tgm4883> I might have a hvr-1600
[16:21] <tgm4883> hmm
[16:21] <tgm4883> !dev
[16:21] <Zinn> Sorry I don't know about dev
[16:22] <tgm4883> Tuner 2: Hauppauge HVR-1600
[16:22] <tgm4883> muns, yes I do
[16:22] <muns> ok i'm redoing this again http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Hauppauge_HVR-1600
[16:22] <Zinn> [www.mythtv.org] Hauppauge HVR-1600 - MythTV
[16:23] <tgm4883> muns, what version of mythbuntu?
[16:23] <muns> the latest 10.04 updated with auto-build
[16:23] <tgm4883> are you building the drivers?
[16:23] <muns> this is fresh install
[16:23] <tgm4883> or just adding the firmware
[16:23] <tgm4883> IIRC, I just added the firmware
[16:23] <muns> hmmm
[16:24] <muns> got an insite on how to do that or what site to go thru steps
[16:24] <tgm4883> Oh, I don't use the analog half either
[16:24] <tgm4883> there is a firmware section on that webpage
[16:24] <muns> cable is only 2-97 and i know its digital but coming thru the lines its analog i think
[16:24] <tgm4883> which is probably the same page I followed
[16:25] <muns> or maybe cable company updated to complete digital
[16:25] <tgm4883> um
[16:25] <tgm4883> ok
[16:25] <tgm4883> does linux detect the card?
[16:25] <muns> are u connected viat the qam/clear digital coax connector or the tv part
[16:25] <muns> ya
[16:25] <tgm4883> the coax connector
[16:25] <muns> so digital side
[16:26] <tgm4883> muns, how did you set it up in mythtv
[16:26] <tgm4883> yea I only do digital
[16:26] <tgm4883> I do OTA
[16:26] <muns> aah
[16:26] <muns> i'll try both after i get this fuzz out lol
[16:26] <tgm4883> How did you set it up in mythtv-setup?
[16:27] <muns> a site said to use cardtype ivtv and source is schedulesdirect.com and us-cable and all that
[16:27] <Zinn> [schedulesdirect.com] Schedules Direct
[16:28] <muns> so u didn't do the hg clone http://linuxtv.org/hg/v4l-dvb
[16:28] <Zinn> [linuxtv.org] v4l-dvb: log
[16:33] <muns> do u think its better to have both connections on card connected via a splitter so can pull both sides of card?
[16:37] <tgm4883> no
[16:37] <tgm4883> I used DVB
[16:37] <tgm4883> since I use digital
[16:39] <muns> kk just wondering if i should try that since we do have actual digital hd channels in the system
[16:40] <muns> never watch em cuz its crap few hd chans anyhow like news and such lol nothing real good
[16:40] <muns> anyhow i'm trying what u did firmware and now gonna reboot...brb
[17:05] <st8ofmi9d> tgm4883: Thank you for the tip. All I needed to do was add "export EXPERIMENTALLY_ALLOW_PULSE_AUDIO=1" to my .profile file.
[17:11] <mrand> st8ofmi9d: are you using 0.23, or 0.22?
[17:11] <st8ofmi9d> mrand: .022 for now.
[17:12] <st8ofmi9d> mrand: I'm too scared to touch my backend since it took me some time to get running.
[17:13] <mrand> My 0.22 to 0.23 was pretty painless (I'm still running 9.10)
[17:13] <mrand> As I recall (might be wrong), that export was depreciated in 0.23.
[17:15] <st8ofmi9d> mrand: So does that mean that the fix will no longer work after I upgrade?
[17:27] <muns> tgm4883, still there?
[17:33] <mrand> st8ofmi9d: I've not heard/seen lots of crys, so my assumption is that the setting isn't required on 0.23 (maybe that setting got flipped and now defaults to 1?  I can't recall right now)
[18:01] <tgm4883> muns, i'm in and out today. I've got a class today
[18:02] <muns> aah we are out of school for the day lol
[18:02] <muns> well no go on that fw update and rebooted still same thing
[18:02] <muns> do i need to try a downgraded version of mythv instead of 0.23 or compile my own kernel or what
[18:07] <tgm4883> muns, there is more than just the firmware update. You will need to set it up correctly in mythtv-setup
[18:07] <tgm4883> if you are using digital, then it needs to be setup as a dvb card
[18:08] <muns> ya i've done what that site said to do even started fresh from step one but errors out at the command make  lol
[18:08] <tgm4883> then you need to create a guide data source and connect it to the dvb card (IIRC, steps 3 and 4)
[18:08] <muns> yup yup
[18:08] <tgm4883> well why are you doing make?
[18:09] <tgm4883> Are you using analog?
[18:09] <muns> since i did the fw update i went into the mythtv-setup and redid my configuration chosen ivtv / tuner 1 / /dev/video0 and detects card then i chosen the guide source
[18:09] <muns> then tried the chan scan and no lock
[18:10] <muns> ya
[18:10] <tgm4883> do you have analog sources?
[18:10] <tgm4883> who is your cable companY?
[18:10] <muns> allegiance communications
[18:10] <tgm4883> hmm
[18:10] <tgm4883> never heard of them
[18:10] <muns> kansas/missouri
[18:10] <tgm4883> and they send you a analog source?
[18:11] <muns> well its digital to the headend and then from there it xfers still analog thru the lines i think...but i can try the dvb digital side of the card
[18:11] <tgm4883> yea I would try the dvb side
[18:12] <muns> kk so cardtype is dvb then
[18:12] <muns> brb
[18:19] <RobertLaptop> Hopefully someone can help.  I decided to replace one of my backend because the old one is dieing but when I got the new hardware It forced me to upgrade from Mythubutu 8.04 to 9.10/10.4 when I upgraded my front end LIRC stopped working any idea's how to get a Hauppauge Win-to-go the same chip-set as the PVR150 working?
[19:56] <Jay2k1> so, are there any plans/timings when 0.23 will be available in the packages? mythbuntu 9.10
[19:56] <rhpot1991> Jay2k1: use the autobuilds
[19:57] <Jay2k1> i do
[19:57] <Jay2k1> is it just changing 0.22.to 0.23 in dpkg-reconfigure mythtv-repos?
[19:57] <Zinn> [0.22.to] International Instant Domain Development
[19:57] <Jay2k1> whoops-
[19:58] <Jay2k1> what a stupid domain name
[19:59] <rhpot1991> indeed
[19:59] <rhpot1991> Jay2k1: if you sudo dpkg-reconfigure mythbuntu-repos
[19:59] <rhpot1991> it should ask you what version of myth
[19:59] <Jay2k1> yeah
[20:00] <rhpot1991> choose 0.23 and do a sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[20:00] <Jay2k1> just wasn't sure if it'd be stable (fixes, that is) or trunk
[20:00] <Jay2k1> uh, trunk would mean svn or whatever they use i guess
[20:00] <rhpot1991> well we released .23 in lucid, and its been officially released at this point from mythtv, so I'd say its good to go
[20:01] <Jay2k1> yes, that's why i ask :)
[20:01] <Jay2k1> that it's released in lucid doesn't mean anything
[20:01] <Jay2k1> i made that experience when installing 9.10
[20:01] <rhpot1991> I'm running it without any issues
[20:01] <Jay2k1> and not being aware of auto builds at that time
[20:01] <rhpot1991> what do you mean?
[20:01] <Jay2k1> well, when i built my htpc, i installed 9.10
[20:02] <Jay2k1> had quite some bugs
[20:02] <rhpot1991> ah got the .22 rc?
[20:02] <Jay2k1> yup
[20:02] <Jay2k1> :)
[20:02] <rhpot1991> ya due to the way ubuntu releases we had to ship RCs there, and then recommend people use the autobuilds to get the latest fixes
[20:02] <rhpot1991> unfortunately thats not something we can have the installer do so our hands are tied there
[20:03] <Jay2k1> when i complained about some bugs here, they asked me what version i used, and it turns out i wasn't quite up to date, had a bunch of updates when i enabled auto builds
[20:03] <Jay2k1> yes, i got to know that
[20:03] <Jay2k1> i suggested making the auto-builds thing more visible on the homepage, because idiots like me don't read release notes if they don't upgrade
[20:04] <tgm4883> yea we should do that
[20:04] <Jay2k1> like
please enable auto builds after installing!

[20:04] <Jay2k1> auto builds being linked to its page
[20:04] <Jay2k1> i mean, i really had no idea, also i thought any updates would be fetched by apt-get update/grade automatically
[20:05] <Jay2k1> since that is not possible, throw it into people's faces :)
[20:05] <rhpot1991> Jay2k1: well updates are possible there, but generally only updates to major bugs and not just a collection of fixes
[20:06] <rhpot1991> but ya, we are aware of the issues
[20:06] <Jay2k1> the ones that make it into the default ubuntu repos huh?
[20:06] <mrand> Jay2k1: right.  And that takes a fair amount of work and handholding to get pushed out.  Which is less time for the Mythbuntu team doing other stuff.
[20:07] <Jay2k1> um, what exactly are you talking about?
[20:09] <mrand> hehe.  It's usually me asking that of other people ;-)
[20:09] <mrand> I meant to say that Updating the already released official/default ubuntu repos takes some non-trival doing.
[20:09] <Jay2k1> aaah
[20:09] <Jay2k1> thats not what i'd ask for anyway :)
[20:10] <Jay2k1> i didn't even know you'd be able to do it at all
[20:10] <Jay2k1> regardless of how easy or not it is
[20:10] <mrand> Jay2k1: sure... you still get 9.10 updates from time to time, right?  This would be the same thing.
[20:11] <Jay2k1> i thought that's from default ubuntu repos
[20:11] <tgm4883> Jay2k1, that is. We could do the same, it's just a lot of work
[20:11] <mrand> yep, that's what I'm talking about.  For the people that either don't want to enable auto-builds, or don't even know it exists.
[20:13] <Jay2k1> how easy would it be to add a little note to the end of the install process? something like the blue screen that occasionally pops up with debian-based updates, for example when a .conf is being replaced
[20:13] <tgm4883> where would be a good place to put auto-builds info?
[20:14] <tgm4883> That would be a debconf note, and wouldnt' be too difficult
[20:14] <tgm4883> is that the right place for it though?
[20:14] <Jay2k1> that'd be a good start imo
[20:14] <tgm4883> superm1, ^
[20:15] <mrand> I don't think superm1 or others would go for that... didn't we talk about this before and that would be too close to making a PPA "official", which Ubuntu in general frowns on.
[20:15] <tgm4883> mrand, IIRC, we can't have it auto-added, or have a button that auto-adds it
[20:15] <Jay2k1> i don't know about these issues, i'm just suggesting what i would do/prefer - if possible.
[20:16] <mrand> Although it is being used more and more.  mythtv has had a semi-official PPA forever.  There is a semi-official for firefox and a number of other apps as well
[20:16] <tgm4883> but I think we could do something like (the mythbuntu team recommends...)
[20:16] <mrand> Jay2k1: no problem.
[20:16] <mrand> tgm4883: ah, yes.
[20:16] <tgm4883> I have too many half finished mcc plugins as it is, I don't need to start work on something else
[20:19] <Jay2k1> also, as already said, i'd probably add a note to the downloads page with a link to the page that describes the auto builds feature
[20:20] <Jay2k1> perhaps explaining why it's necessary doing it manually with a few words so people wouldn't think "what's this for a nonsense, why is this not done automatically"
[20:20] <tgm4883> Jay2k1, you mean on this page http://mythbuntu.org/download-type
[20:22] <Jay2k1> i'm the (imo) typical user. what do i do? i go to http://mythbuntu.org. i see "download" in the navbar and click it. i start reading on the left, the first icon is what i want, so i don't pay attention to the other three, overlooking auto builds
[20:23] <Jay2k1> i click the first, see a download button and that's what i want, so i click it, done
[20:23] <Jay2k1> perhaps i look around some more on the page while it downloads, but don't count on it
[20:24] <Jay2k1> so, I'd say the best place would be at http://mythbuntu.org/downloads
[20:24] <rhpot1991> we can't mention the PPA in the install process at all, I asked superm1 about it before
[20:24] <tgm4883> well with what you just said, you make it sound as if I need you to click on the auto-builds link before you even get download iso
[20:24] <tgm4883> rhpot1991, really?
[20:24] <tgm4883> I thought it already was
[20:24] <rhpot1991> actually maybe I wanted it as a question there
[20:24]  * tgm4883 checks
[20:25] <rhpot1991> and not just words
[20:25] <tgm4883> there is the slideshow
[20:25] <tgm4883> which IMO is the best place for it
[20:26] <rhpot1991> tgm4883: IMO most people prob don't watch that
[20:27] <rhpot1991> I start installing and go do something useful
[20:27] <tgm4883> yep it's in there
[20:27] <rhpot1991> wonder if we can do a "whats next" popup when you are done installing
[20:27] <tgm4883> although it needs a slight typo correction
[20:28] <tgm4883> Also, mrand rhpot1991 I would like to create "stories" on the website for bug fixes and new packages that get pushed to -testing
[20:29] <tgm4883> you can take a look at the latest news on the site to see what I mean
[20:30] <Jay2k1> http://pub.jay2k1.com/screenshots/myth-auto-builds-suggestion.png <- quick and dirty
[20:30] <Zinn> [pub.jay2k1.com]
[20:30] <Jay2k1> just so you see what i mean roughly
[20:31] <tgm4883> rhpot1991, perhaps. That is a question for superm1
[20:31] <rhpot1991> tgm4883: thats a good place on the downloads page
[20:31] <Jay2k1> perhaps not as invasive, but above the download button
[20:31] <RobertLaptop> I upgrade from Mythubutu 8.04 to 9.10/10.4 when I upgraded my front end LIRC's stopped working any idea's how to get a Hauppauge Win-to-go the same chip-set as the PVR150 working?
[20:31] <tgm4883> ok, i'll play with the wording a bit and if superm1 doesn't like it he can pull it out
[20:32] <rhpot1991> tgm4883: I think we asked about including mythbuntu-repos in MCC by default and thats a no too, correct?
[20:32] <tgm4883> rhpot1991, yea thats a NO
[20:32] <rhpot1991> tgm4883: how is that a no, but we include a plugin that enables medibuntu?
[20:32] <tgm4883> we can't add anything that would automatically add 3rd party repos
[20:33] <tgm4883> rhpot1991, we don't include a plugin that enables medibuntu anymore
[20:33] <tgm4883> that got pulled the same time we asked about -repos
[20:33] <tgm4883> it was an oversight
[20:33] <rhpot1991> ah
[20:33] <rhpot1991> I'm out of date
[20:33] <rhpot1991> so we don't have dvd support or anything like that in MCC anymore?
[20:33] <tgm4883> why is openid not working on the site?
[20:33] <tgm4883> rhpot1991, oh we have dvd support
[20:34] <tgm4883> it's just not activating the medibuntu repo
[20:34] <tgm4883> we run the install-css.sh script
[20:34] <rhpot1991> RobertLaptop: set it up again in MCC?
[20:34] <rhpot1991> tgm4883: ah I thought that came from medibuntu
[20:34] <tgm4883> which downloads and installs libdvdcss2 from medibuntu
[20:34] <tgm4883> rhpot1991, it does
[20:34] <rhpot1991> ah, so we just aren't enabling their PPA then
[20:34] <tgm4883> right
[20:34] <rhpot1991> sillyness
[20:35] <tgm4883> I know
[20:35] <rhpot1991> why can't we just do that and warn
[20:35] <tgm4883> basically it just does the same thing that flash installer does
[20:35] <RobertLaptop> rhpot1991, I tiried MCC several times.  Installed from scratched.  For some reason lirc_i2c just isn't loading/seeing the hardware :(
[20:35] <tgm4883> Jay2k1, what if I add that disclaimer to this page  http://mythbuntu.org/download-type
[20:36] <tgm4883> because alot of people add mythtv to existing installs I think
[20:36] <Jay2k1> hmm, possibly
[20:36] <tgm4883> I mean, there are 3 times as many people that get the ISO
[20:36] <Jay2k1> either this or both on the download page for new install and on the page for add to existing
[20:36] <Jay2k1> i don't really know
[20:36] <Jay2k1> oh ok :)
[20:37] <tgm4883> I'll grab a cookie and think about it
[20:37] <Jay2k1> think about the wording as well ;)
[20:39] <rhpot1991> "enable autobuilds to fix your broken stuff!"
[20:45] <kalelme> hello
[20:45] <kalelme> something is happening to me  and I have not getting how to solve it, I have an encore ENLTV-FM 5.3, I  have set up correctly, and it works, the problem I have is that the  image quality is very bad, if I see the channel with tvtime, is the  right way, at 720x480, but if I see from the mythtv (see tv), but is  very poor quality, I tested the quality up in the configuration but the  same thing. anyone has any suggestions
[20:45] <Jay2k1> hmm, apt-get upgrade says that 11 packages are being held back, why is that?
[20:47] <rhpot1991> Jay2k1: sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[20:48] <rhpot1991> and apt should have told you which ones when it said that
[20:48] <Jay2k1> of course
[20:48] <Jay2k1> mytharchive mythgallery mythmovies mythmusic mythtv-backend mythtv-common mythtv-frontend mythtv-themes mythtv-transcode-utils mythvideo mythweather
[20:49] <Jay2k1> i'm a bit afraid of doing a dist-upgrade
[20:50] <rhpot1991> Jay2k1: do it to see what new packages are added, my guess is libmythtv-perl
[20:50] <rhpot1991> it holds a package back if they depend on a package that isn't currently installed
[20:51] <Jay2k1> and the reason they don't get installed as dependencies is that they are dependant on 10.04?
[20:52] <rhpot1991> is this your 9.10 system right?
[20:55] <Jay2k1> yup
[20:56] <rhpot1991> Jay2k1: the package named changed from libmyth-perl to libmythtv-perl, thats the issue
[20:56] <Jay2k1> oh, lol
[20:57] <pteague> if i set up a cut list & use mytharchive to create a dvd... is it supposed to automatically use the cut list or do i need to do something special? http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythArchive wasn't to specific other than mentioning that it's a main feature of the dvd creation part
[20:57] <Zinn> [www.mythtv.org] MythArchive - MythTV
[20:59] <Jay2k1> and these packages are dependant of the newly named perl package, which i can't install on 9.10 i guess?
[20:59] <Jay2k1> it would probably even screw things up
[21:00] <rhpot1991> Jay2k1: yes you can, dist-upgrade
[21:00] <rhpot1991> and it will install it for you, and the updates
[21:00] <rhpot1991> its in the autobuilds ppa
[21:00] <Jay2k1> lets hope it won't break my system then :)
[21:01] <rhpot1991> no promises, you should be safe
[21:05] <Jay2k1> hmm, nothing about perl tho
[21:05] <Jay2k1> but libmyth-0.23-0
[21:05] <Jay2k1> i guess that's the key
[21:08] <rhpot1991> that'd do it too
[21:12] <Jay2k1> thanks for your advice!
[21:22] <kalelme> any have a encore enltv-FM ?
[21:22] <superm1> i dont like the idea of recommending so directly auto-builds like that
[21:23] <superm1> i feel as though it's asking for a recipe for disaster
[21:23] <superm1> particularly since you can have a stable system without them
[21:23] <superm1> and it adds another variable to make it more unstable
[21:26] <Jay2k1> well
[21:27] <Jay2k1> the main problem was the combination of the too-early release of mb 9.10
[21:27] <Jay2k1> so myth 0.22 was still rc
[21:27] <Jay2k1> which i wasn't aware of
[21:31] <Jay2k1> also, i assumed that when i have a special edition of ubuntu with mythtv, i'd get updates for the whole system, including mythtv when doing apt-get upgrade
[21:37] <rhpot1991> Jay2k1: which you will, if they are available
[21:37] <rhpot1991> its just much harder to get updates in post release, which is why we do the PPAs
[22:02] <mcl0vin> howdy folks