[00:50] <infinity> hallyn: So, when do I get qemu-system-aarch64, now that it's upstream? ;)
[01:21] <hallyn> infinity: ?  why don't you have it yet?
[01:22] <infinity> hallyn: Sorry, I should have specified "with full emulation".
[01:22] <hallyn> ah
[01:22] <infinity> hallyn: We have kvm-only right now.
[01:22] <hallyn> yeah
[01:22] <hallyn> so it depends how badly you want it i guess :)
[01:22] <infinity> hallyn: OMG SO BADLY.
[01:22] <hallyn> clearly my preference would be to wait until it'sin a release,
[01:23] <hallyn> but i'll happily do buidl with the patchset if you need it
[01:23] <infinity> hallyn: Nah, I don't *need* it.  Though, if it's undisruptively backportable to 2.0, it would be shiny to have.
[01:23] <infinity> hallyn: (And if it were isolated enough to be ignorable in a review as obviously not breaking other targets, I'd even consider it for an SRU so the LTS can emulate all the arches we shipped)
[01:25] <infinity> That might actually be a first, given that qemu-system-ppc was pretty broken until just recently too.
[01:25] <hallyn> speaking of which has openbios-ppc's mir happened yet?
[01:26] <hallyn> but anyway i'll see if i can get a reasonable patchset (at ods this week so not sure when i'll get a chance to do it justice)
[01:26] <infinity> hallyn: People emulating sane systems use qemu-slof, not openbios-ppc.
[01:26] <infinity> hallyn: (Though that's also in universe, I think)
[01:26] <infinity> Yeah, it is.
[01:27] <hallyn> actually taht's the one i meant, yeah
[01:27] <infinity> We probably should have pulled it into main for trusty and made qemu-system-ppc depend on it, didn't even think about it.
[01:27] <infinity> Oops.
[01:28] <infinity> Oh well.  That one extra step of "install slof" isn't a world-ending thing to put on a wiki HOWTO or something.
[01:28] <hallyn> well i'd hoped tha tthe suggests would suffice, but it doesnt' seem to be reducing the # of bugs :(
[01:28] <hallyn> yeah maybe i should add it to the community docs
[01:28] <infinity> hallyn: Oh, you actually get bugs about it?
[01:29] <hallyn> yeah, suggesting more ppl are trying out qemu-system-ppc in the last few months than... ever
[01:29] <infinity> hallyn: Yeah, that's actually a positive note, other than the bit where it generates bugs. :P
[01:30] <infinity> hallyn: So, AFAICT, people who want to emulate ancient Macs need openbios-ppc, people who want to emulate pSeries (ie: newer IBM machines) want qemu-slof.
[01:30] <infinity> hallyn: I'm less fussed about the first group, but we kinda want the second group to work.
[01:31] <infinity> hallyn: And, indeed, if we decide to make trusty a viable host for ppc64el KVM guests, we'll need slof too.
[01:31] <infinity> hallyn: So, we might have to look at a sketchy promotion-to-main-in-updates for that one down the road.
[01:31] <hallyn> or a fugly in-universe qemu-ppc metapackage that depends on the right things :)
[01:32] <infinity> Ick.
[01:32] <hallyn> :)   half-joking
[01:33] <infinity> I don't think you'll find much (any) resistance from people on the points of SLOF being well-maintained upstream and a worthy candidate for main in general.  It's just the post-release promotion thing that's an unpleasant hack (as we can't/won't change it in release, so it'll be mismatched in release/updates)
[01:33] <siretart> infinity: when do you think would be a good time to start the libav transition in utopic? https://release.debian.org/transitions/html/libav10.html
[01:33] <infinity> siretart: yesterday?
[01:33] <hallyn> is that going back to ffmpeg?
[01:34] <infinity> siretart: More seriously, check to see if there are any other transitions in progress that you'll heavily overlap with before you start.
[01:35] <siretart> infinity: ok, so I can certainly upload libav10 to utopic, but I currently don't have the resources and time to push this transition through in both debian and ubuntu. I would definitly need someone to keep an eye and drive that in ubuntu
[01:35] <hallyn> hm,what're the odds i'll brick my vm byinstalling dh-systemd
[01:35] <infinity> siretart: And by the looks of britney, I'd say the answer is "no", I don't see any multimedia madness currently.  So this wouldn't be an awful time to try to bang out a libav transition *is* it's going to go smoothly.
[01:35] <siretart> I'd certainly help out, but I'm not able to actually drive it
[01:35] <infinity> siretart: Do you know how much of it will be clean rebuilds, how much needs patches for API changes, etc?
[01:35] <siretart> it's going to be pretty bad
[01:36] <infinity> siretart: Okay, so, some numbers on what the "pretty bad" is, and if there are already patches in flight for the badness, etc, would be nice before you upload.
[01:36] <siretart> there have been a lot of API deprecations and many year-old deprecated functions have been dropped
[01:36] <Unit193> hallyn: Pretty much none, it's a dh helper and that's it.
[01:36] <siretart> it will also very likely require some removals.
[01:36] <infinity> siretart: Also, if you write up (or have a reference to) a porting guide that outlines API changes, what's been dropped, what we might want to use instead, etc, others can certainly help.
[01:37] <hallyn> Unit193: cool, that was my hope
[01:37] <infinity> siretart: We have people who are pretty good with this sort of thing, but we prefer not to work blind. ;)
[01:37] <siretart> infinity: you mean such as https://wiki.libav.org/Migration/10 ?
[01:37] <infinity> siretart: Exactly that, yes.
[01:37] <siretart> infinity: I've been working on this transition by patching packages since february (no kidding)
[01:38] <infinity> siretart: So, if you give me a bit of time to rustle up some formal resources for a +1 rotation of people who I know are solid with this sort of thing, between you working on it in Debian, and us working in Ubuntu and pushing patches back, we could probably knock it out quickly.
[01:38] <siretart> infinity: that would be awesome.
[01:39] <siretart> infinity: as said, I'm definitly going to assist as good as I can, but realistically, we'd better have someone else driving and coordinating this transition on the ubuntu side
[01:41] <siretart> infinity: so just let me know when you think it would be a good time to upload it to utopic-proposed
[01:41] <infinity> siretart: Understood.  Normally, I might be inclined to say "eh, stuff it, we'll just wait until it's done in Debian and sync it all", but if you're trying to get this done before jessie's freeze, a bit of help from us might not hurt. :P
[01:41] <siretart> absolutely
[01:42] <siretart> keep in mind that we do have a couple of extra packages in ubuntu that are not being taken care of in debian
[01:42]  * infinity nods.
[01:42] <siretart> I guess we should just remove the binaries and hope for the best
[01:43] <siretart> for some packages, such as mplayer, we might get away with using its internal copy of libavcodec, but that's certainly not going to fly in general
[01:44] <siretart> infinity: in any case, thanks for your understanding and assistance!
[01:45] <infinity> siretart: I'm pretty not happy about the idea of a statically linked mplayer.  Is mplayer really no longer libav-compatible? :/
[01:46] <infinity> siretart: Does this go back to the age-old libav-vs-ffmpeg debate, and mplayer is primarily an ffmpeg project?
[02:08] <siretart> infinity: if you are truely bored, see the fight I had with raimar here: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=732159
[02:09] <siretart> infinity: short story: we both agreed that it would be feasible to get it working with libav if you are willing to compromise on infrequently used features, but nobody could be found to actually make that happen. I am certainly pissed off enough to no longer bother.
[02:14] <infinity> siretart: *sigh*... Is there any chance _at_all_ of a reconciliation between libav and ffmpeg people and a merge of the codebases?
[02:15] <siretart> infinity: well, you shall never say never, and there are indeed efforts on both sides, but given the current state of affair, I certainly wouldn't hold my breath
[02:16] <infinity> :(
[02:16] <infinity> Why can't we all just get along? :P
[03:02] <darkxst> infinity, could you upload https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-photos/+bug/1319236 (it should be in our packageset but it isnt ;( )?
[03:09] <infinity> darkxst: Or, if I can figure out how, I could add it to your packageset.
[03:09] <darkxst> infinity, that would work too
[03:11] <infinity> darkxst: I'm running to the store with my roommate.  I'll figure out how to fix it when I get back.
[03:11] <darkxst> infinity, ok and thanks
[03:36] <infinity> darkxst: Oh, maybe I can't edit it anyway.  Weird.  I thought the TB could.  Maybe it's only the DMB.
[03:37] <infinity> That's annoying.
[03:38] <infinity> stgraber: Halp.
[03:42] <infinity> darkxst: I give up on doing the right thing.  Just test-building before I sponsor. :P
[03:55] <darkxst> infinity, ok, I will get the packageset sorted later
[04:05] <Mirv> doko_: I can take a look. some Qt packages come directly from Debian via autosync, but some have our own changes (and symbols files)
[05:16] <Mirv> could someone with powers mark https://code.launchpad.net/~israeldahl/ubuntu/utopic/lmms/lmms_1.0.1/+merge/217857 as having been merged (at the latest revision)?
[05:21] <TheMuso> Mirv: WIll do, that was my fault, forgot to do that after having to work on the package outside of UDD.
[05:22] <pitti> Good morning
[05:28] <Mirv> TheMuso: thanks!
[05:30] <TheMuso> np
[06:16] <pitti> doko_: btw, bzr-builddeb's test is fixed in debian, just waiting for LP to import it and sync
[06:17] <pitti> (one of the two remaining things that hold back python-default)
[06:18] <RAOF> pitti: Would you like to upload colord to experimental at your leisure?
[06:18] <pitti> RAOF: sure
[06:18] <RAOF> While I'm waiting on a transition slot.
[06:19] <pitti> RAOF: do you want to dch -r/debcommit -r or want me to?
[06:23] <RAOF> pitti: Done so.
[06:24] <pitti> RAOF: hm, were you missing git push --all? pristine-tar/upstream seems outdated
[06:25] <RAOF> pitti: Quite possibly; now done.
[06:25] <pitti> RAOF: ah, all there now; building
[06:31] <dholbach> good morning
[06:36] <pitti> RAOF: aaaand uploaded
[06:37] <mvo> hey dholbach
[06:37] <dholbach> hey mv
[06:37] <dholbach> hey mvo
[06:37] <pitti> mvo, dholbach: guten Morgen!
[06:38] <mvo> hey pitti, good monring
[06:39] <dholbach> hey pitti
[06:39] <dholbach> na Jungs, wie läuft's?
[06:39] <RAOF> pitti: Danke
[07:11] <nandersson> Hi cjwatson, reported a package problem yesterday with respect to samba-common-bin - looks like it is a bug in the version of PackageKit that trusty comes with.
[07:11] <nandersson> so, it is not related to apt or packaging, but PackageKit rather :-/
[07:53] <doko> xnox, are you able to reproduce the unity issue with pch? if yes, a stacktrace of cc1plus would be nice
[08:04] <darkxst> Laney, a while ago I asked (on devel-permissions list) for gnome-photos to get add to our packageset, did you miss that one?
[08:16] <Laney> darkxst: maybe
[08:28] <stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~/data/code/ubuntu-archive/ubuntu-archive-tools$ ./edit-acl add -P ubuntugnome -s gnome-photos -S utopic
[08:28] <stgraber> Added:
[08:28] <stgraber> gnome-photos
[08:28] <stgraber> infinity: ^
[08:29] <Laney> why infinity?
[08:29] <Laney> also, I was checking if it was seeded and it's not
[08:29] <Laney> → desktop-extra
[08:31] <darkxst> stgraber, Laney, yes it should have gone into desktop-extra!
[08:32] <Laney> unless you do plan on seeding it in which case it might not be worth the effort to change :-)
[08:35] <darkxst> Laney, probably not this cycle, its not quite feature complete yet
[08:36] <stgraber> Laney: I'll move it. I guessed ubuntugnome based on the earlier discussion with infinity but I apparently guessed wrong ;)
[08:36] <Laney> ah I didn't see any earlier one
[08:36] <Laney> I think desktop-extra is for the random gnome-y additional bits and ubuntugnome itself for the image
[08:36] <stgraber> done
[08:36] <Laney> ty
[08:37] <Laney> btw, we should make some time at $sprint to look at fixing that script if possible
[08:37] <Laney> as it's clear that I'm failing to do it on my own
[08:40] <stgraber> Laney: yeah, we can do that
[08:41] <stgraber> Laney: I'll add an item for that to the foundations malta agenda so I remember :)
[08:41] <Laney> great
[08:42] <Laney> put my name or something so that I can legitimately go away for a bit :P
[08:42] <stgraber> Laney: "fix the packageset/seed generator (stgraber, Lantey) "
[08:42] <stgraber> *Laney
[08:42]  * Laney nod
[08:45] <darkxst> stgraber, thanks!
[08:47] <Laney> darkxst: btw codesearch should be back
[08:47] <Laney> well, as back as it ever was
[08:49] <darkxst> Laney, great!
[12:28] <mlankhorst> hm can someone put mesa in utopic? seems to fail on an unrelated autopkgtest, probably because of gnat
[12:39] <pitti> right, the ada stack is broken in utopic-proposed (and debian unstable), so libgtkada can't work
[12:40] <pitti> mlankhorst: the release team can override the failure
[12:40] <mlankhorst> ok
[12:40] <mlankhorst> is this enough of a ping or should I ask in #ubuntu-release?
[12:41] <seb128> tjaalton sort of asked earlier
[12:41] <pitti> Laney: ^ ?
[12:41] <seb128> well, he asked what was the issue, not to override
[12:41] <seb128> but overriding it seems fine to me
[12:41] <mlankhorst> ah goodie :)
[12:41] <pitti> yes, to me too
[12:42] <Laney> will look in a min
[12:48] <pitti> dholbach: we changed the time of the tech board meeting; how can I get http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/ updated?
[12:48] <dholbach> pitti, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fridge/Calendar
[12:49] <pitti> dholbach: right, I found that, but it doesn't link to a particular google cal, or say how I can update an existing event?
[12:50] <dholbach> pitti, for the event you're looking at, can you see who created it?
[12:51] <pitti> ooh, I can click on it on fridge.u.c.
[12:51] <pitti> https://www.google.com/calendar/render?eid=MXFwcnZuZW5lbWlraDU0ajY0MmhmbGU4NjhfMjAxNDA0MjhUMjAwMDAwWiBqNXE4NW1taTZ1anZqdGlpNXMxbjNsaTVpb0Bn&ctz=Etc/GMT&sf=true&output=xml
[12:51] <pitti> dholbach: mdz apparently
[12:52] <pitti> dholbach: so, I'll ask him to update that
[12:52] <dholbach> pitti, I pinged pleia2 and jose - maybe they have fridge calendar super powers
[12:52] <dholbach> I have no idea, sorry
[12:52] <pitti> dholbach: ack, thanks
[13:08] <jtaylor> is there anything we can do about the incomplete tcl/tk transition in trusty?
[13:09] <jtaylor> like finishing it up post release or adding new source packages?
[13:09] <jtaylor> e.g. blt is linked against 8.6 and itcl3 still against 8.5, use them together and boom
[13:10] <jtaylor> (both libraries so they affect a fair share of applications)
[13:14] <jtaylor> infinity: you ported blt to 8.6, we still need a 8.5 blt for e.g. skycat
[13:14] <jtaylor> as the shared library is luckily versioned I would suggest adding a new source package blt8.5 to trusty which builds against 8.5
[13:15] <doko> jtaylor, can't we just link itcl3 with 8.6?
[13:15] <jtaylor> doko: yes but then we have to change a whole stack of applications too
[13:15] <rbasak> jtaylor: thanks for digging into this. Can I suggest a dep8 test too? This would catch the same issue next time I think, right?
[13:16] <doko> jtaylor, how many?
[13:16] <jtaylor> doko: direct dependencies about 9
[13:16] <jtaylor> but some of them look like bases of other stuff
[13:16] <jtaylor> like plplot
[13:17] <jtaylor> some apache stuff even
[13:17] <doko> ugh, ugly package anyway
[13:17] <jtaylor> rbasak: well looking at build logs would have been enough in this case already :)
[13:17] <doko> so can we build these in utopic first using 8.6 and then decide what to do?
[13:17] <jtaylor> one could try
[13:18] <jtaylor> I tried buildint itcl3 against 8.6 but still didn't get it to work
[13:18] <jtaylor> don't know why yet
[13:18] <jtaylor> building blt against 8.5 worked
[13:20] <jtaylor> I may have forgotten some other library thats still linked against 8.5
[13:25] <jtaylor> assuming we get utopic to work with 8.6 only, can the fixes be all SRU'd to trusty?
[13:26] <doko> honestly, that would the right thing to do. but others may disagree ...
[13:28] <jtaylor> adding new 8.5 would be less invasive
[13:28] <jtaylor> *packages
[13:28] <jtaylor> because building is one thing, but actually working is another
[13:28] <jtaylor> and its too much stuff to test
[13:29] <mterry> pitti, how do I retry a failed autopkgtest run from proposed-migration?
[13:31] <pitti> mterry: answering in the distro channel
[13:38] <psusi> pitti: I was wondering if I could pick your brain for a second on udisks.. I'm trying to have it grab the IO counters for the drive and stash them so it can compare it on the next 10 minute poll and skip the smart update if there has been no IO... but I can't find a "regular" struct somewhere to stuff it in.
[13:38] <psusi> it looks like all of the structs are auto generated from xml files and their contents is intended to be exported over dbus
[13:39] <psusi> so how can you store some private data like this, that isn't supposed to go over dbus?
[13:39] <pitti> psusi:
[13:39] <pitti> err, I was about to say "hi!"
[13:39] <pitti> psusi: so you can't put it into one of the private structs like struct _UDisksLinuxDrive?
[13:39] <psusi> hi ;)
[13:40] <psusi> hrm... I didn't see that one, let me go look
[13:41] <psusi> ahh, it's not in a header.. it's defined in udiskslinuxdrive.c
[13:41] <pitti> right, it's a private struct
[13:41] <psusi> hrm... I was looking at adding the code to udiskslinuxdriveata.c, which wouldn't have access to that
[13:41] <pitti> psusi: if you need to access it from someplace else, you need to add some internal API to it, like udisks_linux_drive_{get,set}_whatever
[13:42] <psusi> hrm... maybe I can find a way to add it to udiskslinuxdrive.c instead... I'll look it over some
[13:42] <psusi> thanks for the pointer
[13:42] <pitti> psusi: ah, struct _UDisksLinuxDriveAta then? :-)
[13:42] <pitti> pretty much every class has its private data struct
[13:42]  * psusi facepalms
[13:42] <psusi> it never occured to me that they would be defined in the source instead of the header ;)
[13:43] <pitti> hehe
[13:43] <pitti> psusi: that's the standard GObject approach to ensure it stays private and doesn't leak into any headers or PAI
[13:43] <pitti> API
[13:51] <pitti> mterry: but yes, those "hash sum mismatches" during apt-get are mighty annoying; we get them very often, I don't really know what that means
[13:52] <pitti> mvo: ^
[13:52] <mterry> pitti, :(  I get them occasionally on my own devices, but they go away
[13:52] <pitti> could it be that apt-get starts with downloading Release, then the publisher runs and pushes out new indexes, and apt catches those new ones in the middle of the update run?
[13:52] <pitti> I almost never see them on my workstation
[13:52] <cjwatson> Yes, I believe it's roughly that
[13:53] <pitti> mterry: yes, I just restart these, and it usually works then
[13:53] <mvo> pitti: yeah, its this race condition usually
[13:53] <pitti> cjwatson, mvo: ok, thanks for confirming
[13:54] <mvo> pitti: there was talk about a "by-hash" fetching to avoid this race condition some time ago we are working on some code in the abi-break branch that might help too, if its a problem for you we can make it (more of) a priority
[13:56] <pitti> mvo: well, clicking the retry button 10 times a day isn't a big problem for me personaly
[13:56] <mvo> pitti: well it is
[13:57] <mvo> pitti: i mean, thats a lot
[13:57] <pitti> but it creates these "nice sets of "jenkins failed"/"jenkins fixed" things which hold up promotion a bit and annoy people
[13:57] <mvo> indeed
[13:57] <pitti> I'm quite sure we can work around this in adt-run somehow, too
[13:57] <pitti> or in the machinery above, to auto-retry stuff
[13:57] <pitti> just didn't get to that yet
[13:57] <pitti> mvo: so in essence, it's really far from easy to fix on the apt-get side, so we should fix it in the layer(s) above? (i. e. wait and auto-retry)
[13:58] <mvo> pitti: I think we should give it a shoot on the apt side, its annoying too many people for too long already :/
[13:58]  * mvo puts it on his list
[13:58] <jibel> pitti, we used to auto-retry these jobs, but the regex to detect the retry condition must have changed with the new autopkgtest. Do you have an example, I'll adjust it.
[13:59] <pitti> mvo: I mostly wanted to understand why it happesn -- by the logic above, retrying immediatel actualy shoudl work, right?
[14:00] <mvo> pitti: yes, a retry should fix it. its fetch old-release file, packages and release file gets replaced on the server so new release file, new packages files but apt downloaded the previous one
[14:00] <pitti> jibel: e. g. http://d-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/Utopic/view/AutoPkgTest/job/utopic-adt-upower/13/ARCH=i386,label=adt/console
[14:00] <pitti> mvo: ok; I wouldn't want to "sleep 1800" in adt-run, but retrying immediately once in adt-run seems fine to me
[14:00] <pitti> jibel: ^
[14:01] <pitti> jibel: ah, it was in bin/testbed/run-adt
[14:01] <cjwatson> pitti: FWIW I applied a similar workaround in launchpad-buildd a little while back
[14:01] <pitti> cjwatson: ah, with immediate retry?
[14:02] <cjwatson> pitti: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~canonical-launchpad-branches/launchpad-buildd/trunk/revision/106?compare_revid=104
[14:02] <pitti> ah, 15 s counts as "immediate", that's fine
[14:02] <cjwatson> pitti: While I agree with mvo that it's a pain to have to work around this everywhere, in practice I don't think I've seen a single problem in LP builds since I applied that
[14:03] <pitti> great
[14:03] <cjwatson> And IIRC your autopkgtest builders are talking to ftpmaster.internal directly?
[14:03] <cjwatson> So should have basically the same constraints
[14:03] <pitti> jibel: so, I think it might be best to just apply a similar workaround to adt-run like http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~canonical-launchpad-branches/launchpad-buildd/trunk/revision/106?compare_revid=104
[14:03] <pitti> cjwatson: yes, they are, to ensure we see (by and large) the same archive as britney
[14:03] <cjwatson> Right
[14:04] <cjwatson> Before that I'd had a pretty much daily routine of looking for chrootwait builds
[14:04] <cjwatson> It got more frequent when we made publisher runs much more frequent last summer
[14:05] <pitti> jibel, mterry, mvo: ok, filed as bug 1319416
[14:06] <mterry> pitti, ah nice
[14:06] <pitti> jibel: that'll be much cheaper than re-running the whole test (as that means to re-build a VM etc.)
[14:22] <mterry> hallyn, hello!  I'm seeing occasional crashes in cgmanager in Touch when testing my split greeter branches.  But the .crash files don't have usable stacktraces.  Is there a good way to get logs or some such from cgmanager?
[14:24] <labsin> hi, I have a merge proposal for click. But I'd like to first build a package. How can I build the source from the ppa?
[14:27] <mterry> I guess it logs to /var/log/upstart already...  seems to be a double free
[14:27] <mvo> labsin: build the click package? you can just run bzr-buildpackage in the source tree of click
[14:28] <labsin> mvo, I'll try
[14:28] <jtaylor> how would one add a new source package to trusty?
[14:28] <mvo> good luck!
[15:14] <nandersson> Hi, what package does aptd belong to?
[15:14] <ogra_> dpkg -S $(which aptd)
[15:15] <nandersson> ogra_, Thanks!
[15:32] <nandersson> Bug is filed :) https://bugs.launchpad.net/aptdaemon/+bug/1319454
[16:47] <rbasak> Laney: [flavor name] how about ubuntu-desktop-dev, or ubuntu-desktop-preview?
[16:47] <rbasak> (no response required)
[16:49] <Laney> rbasak: thanks, all suggestions are going into the pot ;)
[17:06] <dobey> can someone *please* accept ubuntuone-client into saucy-proposed?
[17:20] <cjwatson> doko: The problems you ran into with cancelling builds early should be fixed by the launchpad-buildd that's rolling out now
[17:21] <doko> \o/
[17:21] <doko> which reminds me to re-run ruby-moneta locally
[17:26] <hallyn> mterry: that double free is something we've seen very occasionally before, especially from some of stgraber's build machines.  if you can catch it in a debugger that woudl rock.
[17:27] <mterry> hallyn, no luck so far  :(
[17:27] <hallyn> mterry: you'll get more output by adding 'cgmnager_opts=--debug' to /etc/default/cgmanager, but probably not enough to debug it
[17:27] <mterry> hallyn, I set MALLOC_CHECK_=3 which I *think* is supposed to help prevent the stack from dying?
[17:27] <hallyn> mterry: so in your case you didn't have any proxies at all right?
[17:27] <mterry> hallyn, I don't know
[17:27] <hallyn> mterry: cool, hopefully you can track it down, this oens' been bugging me, and i have nto been able to reproduce
[17:27] <mterry> hallyn, can you explain the difference between cgroup, cgmanager, and proxies?
[17:28] <hallyn> mterry: cgmanager allows configuration of cgrousp through a dbus api over a unix socket
[17:28] <hallyn> mterry: cgproxy is a cgmanager proxy which can run in containers, and only forwards requests along to the host's cgmanager
[17:28] <hallyn> (the cgamanger mounts the cgroup filesystems privately;  the proxies don't have to)
[17:29] <mterry> hallyn, I'm debugging some weird race during startup between sessions logging in, registering with logind, and cgmanager.  So I'm a little confused about what is *supposed* to happen vs what is happening sometimes
[17:30] <hallyn> logind should be sending dbus requests to create your cgroup, then chown it, then move you into it, one cgroup at a time
[17:56] <xnox> pitti: i haven't done anything else yet. I've chatted with steve, and the next steps are to introduce back dropped init.d scripts from e.g. initscripts package but in a way that don't change anything under e.g. upstart (if init_is_upstart; exit 0/1 as needed as per current debian policy)
[17:57] <xnox> pitti: after that is done, we should be able to enable insserv & thus drop the guard from dh_installinit and thus start calling update-rc.d for all packages that have init.d scripts.
[17:59] <xnox> wschmidt: infinity: thanks for the emacs24 bug, will look into it.
[18:01] <xnox> pitti: or more complete follow-ups from vorlon on the bug you investigated =)
[18:03] <infinity> xnox: Don't thank me, I just SEPed the bug to you. :P
[18:03] <infinity> xnox: AFAIK, the correct fix is "apt-get --purge install vim emacs24-"
[18:03] <xnox> infinity: SEP stands for... ?
[18:03] <infinity> s/AFAIK/AFAIC/
[18:03] <infinity> xnox: SEP = Somebody Else's Problem.
[18:03] <xnox> infinity: ah, that ok =)
[18:10] <slangasek> xnox: "more complete follow-ups"?  I think I've laid out the necessary steps on this most recent debhelper bug, no?
[19:34] <xnox> slangasek: yeah, that's the one i meant.
[19:34] <slangasek> ack
[20:20] <genii> Is there more current documentation than https://wiki.ubuntu.com/systemd  ?  "Status as at December 2010" doesn't lend much confidence
[20:27] <sladen> genii: done upstream in systemd
[20:33] <genii> Hm.
[20:34] <sladen> genii: done upstream in Debian
[20:36] <genii> sladen: I think I found it now, thanks.
[20:37] <xnox> genii: look at history, that page has been edited recently, there is ongoing work in utopic to get systemd support on-par with debian.
[20:38] <xnox> genii: and match the current user-experience & integration that upstart has reached in ubuntu.
[20:38] <genii> There seems to be an older doc with a bit of history: https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/systemd   and a current one: https://wiki.debian.org/systemd
[20:38] <xnox> genii: what are you after?
[20:38]  * genii gets ready to read for a while
[20:39] <genii> xnox: Basically how to use it, write startup files for it, etc, and how it compares to sysvinit and upstart
[21:50] <arges> hallyn: if I want to clone and LXC container for another host machine. I assume I copy the rootfs and then do I need to add something else to ensure the container is setup properly?


[05:27] <gnomefreak> anyohne try to file a bug on 13.04 using "ubuntu-bug bleh"?
[05:27] <gnomefreak> apport keeps crashing here
[05:28] <chilicui1> gnomefreak: give me a second, I'll give it a try
[05:28] <gnomefreak> chilicui1: thanks
[05:33] <gnomefreak> chilicui1: here is what i get http://paste.ubuntu.com/1366843/
[05:41] <chilicui1> gnomefreak: ok, do you think it's similar to this one? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2084222
[05:41] <chilicui1> gnomefreak: I'm updating raring to check if it breaks here too
[05:44] <gnomefreak> chilicui1: its not the same. He is getting to when lp page should open, i dont get past collecting info
[05:49] <chilicui1> gnomefreak: kt
[05:49] <chilicui1> gnomefreak: it's working fine here
[05:54] <gnomefreak> chilicui1: gnome or kde?
[05:58] <chilicui1> gnomefreak: unity/gnome/gtk
[05:59] <chilicui1> btw, if anyone of the bugcontrol team shows up, I'd like that they marked as triaged bug #1023329 with importance 'low'
[05:59] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1023329 in cdo (Ubuntu) "cdo does not do what it is supposed to do" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1023329
[06:01] <gnomefreak> thas odd. sorry chilicui1 some reason i cant change them
[06:01] <gnomefreak> wth happened to my bug team status
[06:02] <chilicui1> gnomefreak: np =), thanks anyway
[09:43] <ali1234> if i reported a bug and it got fixed in the new release of ubuntu, but not the old one, and it's anot a good candidate for SRU, and anyway nobody ever commented on my bug report, what's the approriate way to close the bug report?
[10:08] <mitya57> ali1234, just mark it as fix released
[10:11] <ali1234> ok, thanks
[10:13] <patr|ck> looks like nobody reviews mine either
[14:13] <melodie> hello
[14:14] <melodie> I come to see if I can have a disussion here about a bug related to network-manager not started at boot. It is related to an error message which let me at two bug reports:
[14:14] <melodie> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/881079
[14:14] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 881079 in console-tools (Ubuntu Precise) "FIXED: spurious "Waiting up to 60 more seconds for network configuration" message at startup, but all network devices are up" [High,Triaged]
[14:14] <melodie> and this one:
[14:14] <melodie> no, just that one.
[14:15] <melodie> for me it is not fixed yet in Precise
[14:52] <melodie> hi again
[18:39] <melodie> hi, does anyone have information about this bug ? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=12361224#post12361224
[18:40] <melodie> does anyone coming here deal with bugs ?
[18:40] <melodie> :)
[18:42] <penguin42> melodie: Are you sure that's the same bug?
[18:43] <EXORCIST> I think I found a bug
[18:43] <melodie> penguin42, it looks very much like it
[18:43] <melodie> so much that I didn't even think it could be a different one
[18:44] <melodie> I'd like to see someone tell me : show this log, and that log on pastebin, then a knownledgeable person would look and find out what happens really
[18:44] <penguin42> melodie: Go back a step, when did you start getting it and what version are you on?
[18:45] <melodie> I started having it immediatly and I have provided the version I'm on on the forum
[18:45] <melodie> version ubuntu you mean ?
[18:45] <melodie> or version packages ?
[18:45] <melodie> it also happens in a netbook where I did the same install, a Samsung N210
[18:46] <EXORCIST> i found a remote exploit in ubuntu
[18:46] <melodie> I thought it was because of the wireless, which I have deactivated since, but the problem persisted so when I noticed it also here in this one box I thought I would start working on it and search the web a bout it
[18:46] <penguin42> EXORCIST: Then please report the bug and mark it as security
[18:47] <EXORCIST> I want to make full disclosure here
[18:47] <EXORCIST> I will use pastebin
[18:47] <penguin42> EXORCIST: It's unlikely people here will notice it
[18:47] <penguin42> EXORCIST: If you report it on lp and mark it as security then the security team will be informed
[18:47] <EXORCIST> Who is in the security team?
[18:48] <EXORCIST> where is the security team channel
[18:48] <penguin42> EXORCIST: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-security
[18:49] <penguin42> melodie: Have you done some basic debug ignoring nm and wicd?
[18:49] <melodie> penguin42, I wish I knew how to do that
[18:49] <melodie> I'll have to bbl
[18:49] <melodie> and I'll be back. :)
[18:49] <melodie> thanks
[18:49] <penguin42> melodie: I'd try doing some basic config with ifconfig
[18:50] <melodie> penguin42, i go for dinner and will be back after
[18:50] <penguin42> I may or may not be here
[18:51] <penguin42> EXORCIST: I'd ask you to go through launchpad and mark it as security, and you can make it public or private; I'd ask you to make it private and give them time to sort it
[18:52] <EXORCIST> I think ubuntu is widely used
[18:52] <penguin42> yep
[18:52] <EXORCIST> You can buy the exploit from me if you want
[18:52] <penguin42> haha no thanks
[18:55] <EXORCIST> !ops
[18:55] <ubot2> Help! Seveas, Hobbsee, gnomefreak, coleSLAW, or dholbach
[18:55] <EXORCIST> !ops
[18:57] <penguin42> Pricey: Ta
[19:11] <melodie> penguin42, ? are you still here ? :)
[19:13] <melodie> penguin42, my aim is not to get a successful configuration. In need a "sudo dhclient eth0" or eth1 will do the trick. What i would want is to get help to find where the problem lies, and get the devs to fix it really, if possible. I would like Ubuntu to be even better than it is now
[19:13] <melodie> I also meet with an issue with something else, but... one problem at a time.
[19:14] <melodie> if you are still here, and if you know the /etc/init scripts, I would like to say what I have been looking at there ?
[19:37] <melodie> bbl
[19:37] <penguin42> oops, missed
[19:42] <patr|ck> not to be a pest, but what about my bug - what can i do to get it reviewed?
[19:42] <patr|ck> i mean: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/1079801
[19:42] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1079801 in xorg (Ubuntu) "3D apps do not load for the intel "sandy bridge" gfx chip" [Undecided,New]
[19:43] <penguin42> let me just look at that
[19:43] <patr|ck> cool
[19:45] <penguin42>  patr|ck: Does something simple like glxgears work?
[19:45] <patr|ck> glxgears works, yes
[19:45] <patr|ck> with about 60 FPS
[19:45] <melodie> hi again
[19:46] <melodie> penguin42, I rebooted, didn't find any way to fix it so far
[19:47] <penguin42> patr|ck: OK, can you attach the output of glxinfo ?
[19:47] <patr|ck> not at the moment, because i am on 12.04
[19:47] <penguin42> melodie: Right, so while you say your intent is not to find a working config, but to get the devs to fix it, the 1st step is to find out which bit is broken
[19:48] <penguin42> patr|ck: OK, so I suggest you 1) get the output of glxinfo, 2) try something heavy 3d that's native Ubuntu (e.g. blender or one of the games) 3) can you attach the output error text message from running google earth?
[19:48] <patr|ck> you mean to run the glxinfo on the "broken" versions 12.10 and 13.04 right?
[19:49] <melodie> this is what I was trying to find out
[19:49] <penguin42> patr|ck: Yes, broken version please
[19:49] <penguin42> melodie: OK, so does running dhclient or the like work?
[19:49] <penguin42> melodie: And apologies, I'm muxing a few bugs at the same time here; so can you remind me, what does the output of ifconfig -a   say?
[19:50] <patr|ck> okay, so i got some "homework" :-)
[19:50] <penguin42> patr|ck: I'm wondering if it's only 32 bit programs that are broken and that you need to install some missing 32 bit library
[19:50] <patr|ck> 32bit only, yesw
[19:50] <patr|ck> sorry: yes
[19:50] <penguin42> patr|ck: So you're sure 64bit stuff is happy?
[19:51] <patr|ck> i have no 64bit
[19:51] <melodie> penguin42, no problem, you do as you can and yes, dhclient does work, so do network-manager : just under the condition that the former packages are installed ! the ones from updates repos does not start at boot
[19:51] <penguin42> patr|ck: Oh ok, mis read it - so this is a 32bit install?
[19:51] <melodie> I might have found why by the way
[19:51] <patr|ck> it is, yes
[19:52] <melodie> not sure of that but if you have a few minutes available to look at that at same time as me I might be able to point to a detail in a start file
[19:52] <penguin42> melodie: OK, so if it's working but failing on an update please file that as a separate bug; I don't think it's necessarily the same as that old one - please state the versions that work/fail and tell someone here because then it's a regression
[19:52] <penguin42> patr|ck: OK, so wasn't what I was thinking - so still fill that home work in :-)
[19:52] <melodie> and the problem which still is here is this terrible delay at boot !
[19:52] <patr|ck> roger!
[19:53] <melodie> penguin42, someone here ? who ?
[19:53] <penguin42> melodie: Yeh if you're lucky someone here (bugcontrol/bugsquad) should be able to make sure it's marked as a regression and mark it high; a regression on an LTS is pretty important
[19:53] <penguin42> melodie: But you need to make sure you show the before/after package numbers
[19:54] <melodie> and what about the 60 more seconds delay in the early start of boot ? I didn't find yet how to narrow it.
[19:54] <melodie> penguin42, yes, I know the version numbers, this guy at the forum gave it all !
[19:54] <penguin42> melodie: They're tricky, two ways, look to see if you can see the gap in /var/log/boot* or any other stuff, also try running bootchart
[19:55] <melodie> how do I run bootchart ? what is it ?
[19:55] <melodie> in X  console ? as root ? as user ?
[19:55] <penguin42> melodie: It's a package you install, it records (into /var/log/bootchart I think) a recording of your boot process and leaves a trace and .png there showing a trace
[19:55] <melodie> I have been in /var/log/boot.lot
[19:55] <melodie> log
[19:56] <melodie> ok
[19:56] <melodie> bootchart packages installing now
[19:56] <penguin42> melodie: One thing to watch out for though, the last message you see before the hang is not necessarily the cause
[19:57] <melodie> which hang ? nothing hangs : the boot process is slowed down by the 60 seconds delay
[19:57] <melodie> the same as here:
[19:57] <melodie> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/881079
[19:57] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 881079 in console-tools (Ubuntu Precise) "FIXED: spurious "Waiting up to 60 more seconds for network configuration" message at startup, but all network devices are up" [High,Triaged]
[19:57] <melodie> "Waiting up to 60 more seconds for network configuration" message at startup, but all network devices are up"
[19:58] <melodie> oh bots !
[19:58] <melodie> :|
[19:59] <penguin42> it's a nice friendly bot
[19:59] <melodie> the file under /etc/init having for name "network-manager.conf" seem not to be the same in the package from update and in the one from the former package.
[19:59] <melodie> the newer seems to want the network-manager program to be started after I don't remember what (I'll have to reinstall it to see what and compare)
[20:00] <melodie> I didn't know about upstart way of working, I had to dig there a bit to find out.
[20:00] <penguin42> upstart is still a bit of a mysetery to me
[20:00] <penguin42> try
[20:01] <melodie> penguin42, mystery or misery ? ;D
[20:01] <penguin42> both!
[20:01] <melodie> mysetery looks like a mix or both. :)
[20:01] <melodie> systemd in other boxes is quite a new stuff with lots of complexity as well...
[20:02] <melodie> I installed bootchart, is there anything else I should try before restarting the box ?
[20:02] <penguin42> yeh I have a certain preference for a nice simple /etc/rc :-(
[20:02] <melodie> :)
[20:02] <penguin42> melodie: Just reboot, log in and then have a look at the nice image in /var/log/bootchart
[20:03] <melodie> ok
[20:03] <melodie> I'll bb
[20:13] <melodie> penguin42, ?
[20:13] <penguin42> hi
[20:14] <melodie> i have the bootchart directory in /var/log but I don't understand anything from it. who wants it can have it...
[20:14] <melodie> o_^
[20:14]  * penguin42 has to go in a minute or two
[20:14] <penguin42> melodie: You should find there is a big .png image
[20:14] <penguin42> melodie: And it just shows time across the bottom and you can see all the things that are happening
[20:16] <melodie> I have looked al right :D
[20:17] <melodie> may I upload them somewhere, maybe you could have a look and try to figure out what goes on there ?
[20:17]  * penguin42 has to go now
[20:17] <melodie> ok.
[20:21] <melodie> is there someone here belonging to the bugsquad ?
[20:27] <melodie> is there someone here belonging to the bugsquad ? here are all the reports related to the same bug as what I am meeting with: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+bugs?field.searchtext=Waiting+for+60+more+seconds&search=Search+Bug+Reports&field.scope=all&field.scope.target= and the same thread includes late reports involving Ubuntu Precise, such as myself
[20:28] <melodie> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/console-common/+bug/881079
[20:28] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 881079 in console-tools (Ubuntu Precise) "FIXED: spurious "Waiting up to 60 more seconds for network configuration" message at startup, but all network devices are up" [High,Triaged]
[21:12] <melodie> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1080454
[21:12] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1080454 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "New network-manager is not started at boot" [Undecided,New]
[21:12] <melodie> and good night


[05:23] <blkperl> Hi guys, I'm trying to get Precise working with nfs mounted homedirs and on login dconf-service hangs, the open file is $USER/.config/dconf/user and when you try to ls it hangs as well.
[05:33] <didrocks> good morning
[05:34] <smspillaz> morning didrocks :)
[05:34] <didrocks> hey smspillaz!
[05:34] <cyphermox> hey didrocks!
[05:35] <didrocks> good evening cyphermox, how are you?
[05:35] <cyphermox> not bad
[05:37] <BigWhale> Morning.
[05:45]  * TheMuso managed to lock up his panda board twice within 20 mins or so just by trying to play music from a USB disk and the network, as well as use nautilus. :)
[05:45] <TheMuso> This is quantal I speak of.
[07:35] <MCR1> smspillaz: Hi :) Are you here ?
[07:41] <MCR1> smspillaz: I want to help fixing hardcoded Unity shortcuts and converting those to Compiz ones, controlled by the Unity plug-in. I'll probably need an example how to best do it - so I won't break all kinds of stuff. I had no time yet to dig into the code deeply, but I guess by analyzing those Unity-specific shortcuts, which are already controlled by Compiz, I should be able to convert the others the same way - Any tips ?
[07:57] <MCR1> smspillaz: Also I've been warned by didrocks, that feature freeze is near and so I already nerved duflu about the merges for the most important additional plug-ins, I would be very happy to somehow get those in before the freeze as well...
[08:02] <MCR1> smspillaz: Simple-Animations have already been fixed, also the Wizard. Extra-Animations and Animations-Experimental still need fixes to work, Screensaver (rotating cube/flying windows) is also working quite nicely, although the flying windows still have minor troubles (could be de-activated until fixed) and Free Windows are awesome, but still have the potential to kill Compiz, but I am sure it is a minor issue that can be fixed as well...
[08:04] <seb128> hey desktopers
[08:04] <mlankhorst> heya
[08:04] <MCR1> smspillaz: All of the above (except anim-exp and extra-anim) ^^ are running here on Quantal with the latest Compiz and I am sure others would enjoy to have those also.
[08:04] <MCR1> seb128: Hey
[08:05] <didrocks> bonjour seb128, ça va?
[08:05] <didrocks> hey mlankhorst
[08:05] <seb128> hey didrocks, MCR1, mlankhorst, how are you?
[08:05] <seb128> didrocks, ca va bien!
[08:05] <didrocks> seb128: I'm good, thanks!
[08:09] <MCR1> didrocks: Another one of my revolutionary/nerving ideas ;) was to replace the default gtk window decorator with the great Emerald, but I guess there is no chance to do that inside the time frame of the next 2 weeks, but maybe for 13.04 ?
[08:10] <didrocks> MCR1: not in ubuntu anyway
[08:10] <didrocks> MCR1: emerald code is not maintained anymore
[08:10] <mlankhorst> seb128: writing :>
[08:11] <didrocks> and we have specific feature in gtk-w-d for unity
[08:15] <MCR1> seb128: I am stressed because of the feature freeze ;)
[08:16] <mvo> seb128: hi, could you please comment on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1035207 if you have time? if that is something you guys are ok with?
[08:16] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1035207 in aptdaemon "passwordless install of certain apps" [Undecided,New]
[08:16] <seb128> mvo, hey, alter! long time, how are you?
[08:16] <seb128> mvo, looking
[08:17] <seb128> mvo, the principle works for me, maybe check with the security team as well?
[08:17] <MCR1> didrocks: Emerald my not be maintained anymore, still the old code is far superior to any other win decorator and I am still using it because of that...
[08:17] <MCR1> *may not be
[08:17] <mvo> seb128: yeah, sounds good, pitti is probably also a good source of input (is he on vac?)
[08:17] <seb128> mvo, he's on vac still for a full week
[08:18] <seb128> mvo, byclicing around the bodensee and the rivers in that area
[08:18] <mvo> nice
[08:20] <smspillaz> MCR1: we can merge new plugins after feature freeze
[08:20] <smspillaz> MCR1: as they are not shipped by default anyways
[08:20] <seb128> no you can't
[08:20] <seb128> or you will not be able to get that version uploaded to Ubuntu
[08:20] <seb128> they are part of the tarballs you roll though?
[08:20] <smspillaz> seb128: they are not even installed by anything
[08:21] <smspillaz> seb128: yes, they are part of the tarballs though
[08:21] <seb128> are they built? or optional?
[08:21] <smspillaz> optional
[08:21] <seb128> like if they have a build issue, would that be an issue building compiz?
[08:21] <MCR1> smspillaz: Oh, that is VERY GOOD news. seb128: in the plugins-extra package.
[08:21] <seb128> I really think we should drop all the plugins that we don't use
[08:21] <smspillaz> seb128: we can disable building them by default but still hvae them in-tree
[08:21] <smspillaz> seb128: some people would differ
[08:22] <smspillaz> seb128: its not a problem really
[08:22] <seb128> it is a problem, it cost a lot of energy and lost of focus
[08:22] <smspillaz> seb128: no it doesn't
[08:22] <smspillaz> seb128: if something doesn't built I just disable it and let other people handle it :)
[08:23] <MCR1> seb128: Ofc they WILL all build without problems BEFORE getting merged
[08:23] <seb128> well, when you do refactoring, who does fix all those random plugins?
[08:23] <smspillaz> seb128: nobody, we just disable them until someone who is interested in maintaining them comes along and maintains them
[08:23] <smspillaz> seb128: see gles2
[08:25] <MCR1> seb128: smspillaz probably means me ;)
[08:25] <smspillaz>  / anybody else who would be interested in maintaining them realy
[08:25] <smspillaz> I don't have any issue keeping them in tree for people who want them
[08:26] <smspillaz> someone just has to maintain it thats all
[08:26] <seb128> I've issue distributing code in main that is buggy or not well supported
[08:26] <seb128> even if it's not built
[08:26] <smspillaz> MCR1: seb128: I was however thinking of making a merge for lp:compiz that only makes a certain set of plugins build by default
[08:26] <seb128> but I guess that's not a disagreement we will change our mind on today
[08:26] <smspillaz> seb128: it won't even be in main, that's the point
[08:26] <seb128> so let's not spend an hour arguing ;-)
[08:27] <smspillaz> seb128: debian/compiz-plugins.install will not install them :)
[08:27] <seb128> the tarball, source is still in main
[08:27] <seb128> even if we don't build those part of the code
[08:27] <smspillaz> hmmm
[08:27] <smspillaz> surely that doesn't matter though if dpkg-buildpackge won't even touch that bit of code
[08:27] <smspillaz> b2b
[08:27] <smspillaz> g2g
[08:27] <smspillaz> rather
[08:28] <seb128> ttyl
[08:31] <MCR1> smspillaz: c ya
[08:32] <smspillaz> seb128: just before I go, the thing is that I'd like to avoid moving back to a multiple source model
[08:32] <smspillaz> it was such a pain back then :(
[08:32] <seb128> smspillaz, right, we should just drop for good all those crazy stuff
[08:32] <seb128> we need a solid and efficient wm
[08:32] <smspillaz> seb128: except that people want to use it
[08:32] <seb128> not a toy factory
[08:33] <smspillaz> sure, that's what we're focusing on building
[08:33] <seb128> I guess at this point I would favor for them or us to fork then and assume having different goals
[08:33] <seb128> like we can claim compiz and do that, and those who want to crack can start a compiz-crack project
[08:33] <smspillaz> seb128: I don't think a fork is necessary. its a plugin based wm
[08:33] <seb128> or the other way around
[08:33] <seb128> well, I would say just drop all the stuff we don't use
[08:34] <smspillaz> seb128: I still don't see whats wrong with having stuff in tree that we specifically don't maintain and is not built by default
[08:34] <seb128> and let somebody on the internet maintain them in a separate source if they want
[08:34] <smspillaz> seb128: no, the whole point was to avoid multiple sources
[08:34] <MCR1> seb128: Everyone agrees on having only solid stuff merged, noone likes to see any crashes with Compiz
[08:34] <seb128> you and duflu spend time reviewing those and merging those
[08:34] <seb128> and reviewing and merging the fixes
[08:34] <seb128> which is a waste of your time imho
[08:34] <smspillaz> seb128: once MCR1 is happy to maintain that part, he can do the reviews
[08:34] <smspillaz> MCR1/anybody else
[08:35] <seb128> until the day he stops carying
[08:35] <seb128> and we get old code sitting there
[08:35] <smspillaz> and then we drop them again :)
[08:35] <MCR1> :)
[08:35] <seb128> well, I think it would less of an assle to let somebody do that somewhere on the internet
[08:35] <smspillaz> seb128: why not in the source tree though ?
[08:35] <smspillaz> we don't have to have any involvement
[08:36] <seb128> don't roll it in the tarballs and I would be fine
[08:36] <seb128> and don't make it that the acl to access that part is the same than to access the core
[08:36] <seb128> atm if you give somebody access to those you give them access to the whole compiz
[08:36] <smspillaz> seb128: the people who maintain that part aren't eveil -.-
[08:36] <seb128> which is crazy
[08:36] <smspillaz> seb128: so ?>
[08:36] <smspillaz> its a trust system
[08:36] <seb128> no, but they might be junior
[08:37] <smspillaz> if we don't like it what they are doing, revert it
[08:37] <smspillaz> its not that hard
[08:37] <seb128> if you notice it and watch every single commit
[08:37] <smspillaz> seb128: which we do
[08:37] <seb128> it's just extra work and potential issues
[08:37] <seb128> which is one of my issue
[08:37] <smspillaz> and it takes up what
[08:37] <smspillaz> 5 minutes of my day ?
[08:37] <smspillaz> less ?
[08:37] <seb128> you "waste" time watching stuff that you shouldn't have to care about
[08:38] <seb128> I would argue seeing some of duflu's review and testing that he waste a lot more than 5 min a day
[08:38] <smspillaz> if we split the source I have to care about rebuilding that stuff every single time I break an API
[08:38] <seb128> I would not split the source, I would just kill those
[08:38] <smspillaz> otherwise I will get yelled at by those people
[08:38] <seb128> drop them from the internet
[08:38] <smspillaz> seb128: except that there is demand from them
[08:38] <smspillaz> so no
[08:38] <seb128> let them yell, haters are haters
[08:38] <smspillaz> seb128: they aren't haters
[08:38] <seb128> there is demand for anything you can imagine in the world
[08:38] <MCR1> I am no hater
[08:38] <MCR1> :)
[08:38] <smspillaz> they're people who wish for certain things to be availalbe
[08:38] <seb128> that doesn't mean you need to address all the demandes
[08:39] <smspillaz> seb128: you have totally mischaracterized this whole thing
[08:39] <smspillaz> seb128: we're NOT
[08:39] <smspillaz> that's the point
[08:39] <seb128> well I see the crack options going in
[08:39] <smspillaz> seb128: and ubuntu never sees any of it
[08:39] <seb128> like srly, who needs rain on his screen from the wm
[08:39] <smspillaz> seb128: what's the problem
[08:39] <smspillaz> seb128: I don't care what you think
[08:39] <smspillaz> seb128: if people want that and if people are willing to maintain it, let them
[08:39] <seb128> the problem is that duflu spends hour testing and reviewing those stuff and that delays stuff like gles to land
[08:39] <smspillaz> seb128: then he shouldn't be!
[08:40] <seb128> well, he shouldn't but he does
[08:40] <seb128> because he considers that if stuff are in trunk they should work
[08:40] <smspillaz> seb128: okay, then you need to take that issue with him
[08:40] <seb128> and I can see his point
[08:40] <smspillaz> seb128: and if they are not built by default, we /dont/ /care/
[08:40] <seb128> I don't like much the "let broken stuff in there mixed with working stuff"
[08:40] <smspillaz> seb128: which never sees ubuntu anways
[08:40] <seb128> let's agree to disagree as I said earlier
[08:40] <smspillaz> sure
[09:04] <MCR1> seb128: I am no hater, btw. :) I am helping to improve Ubuntu (for free), not just steal time of developers. 11 of my branches (since I started in June) have already been approved/merged and 8 of those have been bugfixes/optimizations for Ubuntu...
[09:04] <seb128> MCR1, I was not picking up on you, sorry if that's the impression you got
[09:05] <seb128> MCR1, but any plugin added is a move in the wrong direction imho
[09:05] <seb128> we should aim at shrink the number of those and the codebase
[09:05] <seb128> to have something focussed and easy to maintain
[09:05] <MCR1> seb128: And yes, I am new to Ubuntu development, and I sometimes have to ask questions on how to best do stuff, but I never ask a question I got the answer for twice...
[09:06] <seb128> MCR1, again, it's not again you
[09:06] <seb128> it's just against adding new plugins
[09:06] <seb128> we need something which doesn't have focus issues
[09:06] <seb128> which doesn't segfault
[09:06] <seb128> and which is not slow
[09:06] <seb128> we don't need something which rains on your screen ;-)
[09:07] <chrisccoulson> mutter? ;)
[09:07]  * chrisccoulson runs
[09:07] <seb128> lol
[09:07] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
[09:07] <seb128> Laney, hey, there? are you on the ubuntu-release list?
[09:07] <Laney> yep
[09:07] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks. how are you?
[09:07] <seb128> Laney, do you still have https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001689.html
[09:07] <seb128> Laney, can you bounce it to mvo if you do?
[09:07] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks
[09:08] <seb128> chrisccoulson, can has bounce in btw?
[09:08] <seb128> doh
[09:08] <seb128> in tb
[09:08] <Laney> seb128: yeah, should do, sure
[09:08] <seb128> those autofingers :p
[09:09] <Laney> mvo: there you go
[09:12] <mvo> Laney: thanks a bunch
[09:12] <mvo> Laney: mutt ftw!
[09:12] <MCR1> seb128: How about the merged workspacenames featured already here: http://www.iloveubuntu.net/compiz-098-landed-ubuntu-1210-workspace-naming-and-numerous-fixes - I would say this is useful, fast, does not segfault (and does not rain on the screen) ?
[09:14] <Laney> enterprise features ;-)
[09:14] <seb128> MCR1, I would say that 99% of the users don't know about ccsm and shouldn't even get close from it since it's the best way to break your desktop ;-)
[09:15] <mvo> hm, mail is not here yet, but maybe my provider its just a bit slow today
[09:15] <seb128> mvo, check spam filters?
[09:15] <Laney> sent it to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:16] <MCR1> seb128: What I want to say is that we all agree that main priority is that everything is fast and 100% stable - and yes CCSM needs more work - the user should not be able to crash Compiz with it, no matter what is clicked on there...
[09:16] <Laney> Aug 10 10:09:25 cripps postfix/smtp[1437]: 3376D2063A<EMAIL_ADDRESS>relay=mx.canonical.com[<IP_ADDRESS>]:25, delay=0.09, delays=0.01/0.05/0.02/0.01, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 47EEAA186A3)
[09:17] <seb128> MCR1, us liking it or not extra plugins, options and flexibility are a resource drain and takes energy away from reaching those important goals
[09:18] <MCR1> seb128: Not if you have volunteers who do that for free and help with other fixes (for free)
[09:19] <seb128> speaking of which
[09:19] <seb128> just hit ctrl-R on IRC (reconnects) because compiz didn't focus my comment line when I opened it
[09:19] <seb128> it's 2012 and we still don't have working focus handling :-(
[09:21] <MCR1> seb128: This bug is afaik known, but currently all attention goes into the GLES port - I also would wish we fix all the desktop issues before opening a new focus
[09:21] <seb128> MCR1, speaking of which, the GLES port would have been finished already if there was not so many plugins to check and fix ;-)
[09:21] <MCR1> seb128: I think you are joking now ;)
[09:21] <seb128> sadly not :-(
[09:22] <seb128> some of the blockers were like "woobling dialogs don't render right with the port"
[09:22] <MCR1> seb128: The solution is to fix not to remove and cripple Compiz
[09:23] <seb128> well, the time spent fixing woobling is not spent fixing focus or stability or performances
[09:23] <seb128> so for 0.01% users who discover ccsm and turn that on we penalize 99.99% of users who run stock compiz,unity
[09:25] <MCR1> seb128: Compiz without wobbly windows is not Compiz anymore... but I will now focus on fixing bugs (starting with the hardcoded shortcut ones on the weekend)
[09:26] <seb128> MCR1, well again don't take that discussion for you, it's rather meant as compiz as a project for its direction
[09:26] <seb128> MCR1, well, I guess that's what I said before, I don't want Ubuntu to use compiz by default
[09:26] <seb128> MCR1, I want Ubuntu to use a less-buggy-better-streamlined-compiz
[09:27] <seb128> so maybe the solution would be to fork and make a simpler version of compiz for Ubuntu and let the old compiz around for those who want the options
[09:28] <mvo> Laney: here we go, its here now, thanks
[09:31] <MCR1> seb128: I understand and respect your point.
[09:41] <chrisccoulson> hmmmm, i probably should have restarted my machine before i started work this morning
[09:42] <chrisccoulson> dragging windows is painfully slow
[10:55] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, is there any way to tell if a source is remote with eds?
[13:24] <bcurtiswx> good morning
[13:25] <seb128> bcurtiswx, hey, how are you?
[13:26] <bcurtiswx> hi seb128, my job is keeping me busy :) i got your e-mail about that one update i did, i don't recall exactly but I think it was at a point to be reveiwed
[13:26] <seb128> bcurtiswx, ok, I will review it
[13:26] <bcurtiswx> seb128: thanks
[13:27] <dobey> mvo: ping
[13:27] <mvo> dobey: pong
[13:28] <dobey> mvo: care to take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~dobey/ubuntu/quantal/aptdaemon/fix-gobject-imports/+merge/119020 as well?
[13:29] <mvo> dobey: sure, I can also do  a new upstream snapshot upload
[13:29] <mvo> dobey: might be easier than the patch
[13:30] <dobey> mvo: ok. either's fine, but right now the ubuntuone-installer test suite is broken without it
[13:32] <jbicha> seb128: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/1:3.5.5-0ubuntu3
[13:32] <seb128> jbicha, yeah, I saw that on the changes list
[13:33] <seb128> jbicha, though I'm unsure what it is about, right click on the desktop works here
[13:33] <jbicha> "Show Desktop Background" doesn't show though
[13:34] <seb128> oh, right
[13:34] <seb128> jbicha, thanks for it
[13:34] <jbicha> it was mentioned at the top of the OMG Ubuntu article
[13:34] <seb128> jbicha, is there any reason you point the update?
[13:34] <seb128> (just curious if you just pointed it or wanted to discuss it)
[13:35] <jbicha> people were saying that Nautilus was intentionally breaking desktop mode which wasn't the case, it was just a bug
[13:35] <seb128> oh ok
[13:35] <seb128> thanks for fixing it!
[13:36] <didrocks> jbicha: hey, how are you?
[13:36] <jbicha> doing good, I'm at http://openhelpconference.com/ desrt should be arriving here later today
[13:37] <didrocks> ah nice :)
[13:37] <didrocks> jbicha: FYI, with the removal of the unity-2d session, I think your Fallback plan on the session to start gnome-shell on the CD won't work anymore
[13:37] <didrocks> jbicha: I think you should use the little tool I provided to flavors for setting the default session
[13:37] <jbicha> which?
[13:38] <didrocks> jbicha: /usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm-set-defaults
[13:38] <didrocks> --help should help :)
[13:38] <didrocks> basically you use -s <desktop_filename> --keep-old
[13:38] <didrocks> in a postinst and same for removing in a prerm
[13:39] <didrocks> you can look at the xubuntu-default-settings package IIRC
[13:39] <jbicha> I'll give that a try
[13:39] <didrocks> jbicha: do not hesitate to ping me if you need any help :)
[13:39] <jbicha> ok thanks!
[13:39] <didrocks> yw!
[13:41] <seb128> jbicha: that's what I suggest you in reply to your email a week ago or so
[13:41] <seb128> suggested
[13:41] <seb128> jbicha, did you get it?
[13:41] <jbicha> yes, I forgot to remove the gnome-session change from bzr though
[13:46] <bcurtiswx> so this nautilus discussion. I think we should keep 3.6 version, and patch. Think about all the indicator stuff and how much patching went there to different apps. Im not sure the true difference in the workload comparisons. Empathy needed an adjustment period because people were so accustomed to pidgins capabilities. Nautilus made a few changes that people will have to change things they got comfortabl
[13:46] <bcurtiswx> e with
[13:48] <bcurtiswx> I of course don't make the decisions and I don't know a lot of things that would help my thought process. Just my 0.02
[13:49] <ogra_> bcurtiswx, well, the missing developer time seems to be the biggest issue, if someone from the community would commit to do all the patching that might probably help
[13:51] <bcurtiswx> ogra_, yes, i understand thats the biggest issue. I hope we can get a few community people with the time to work on it.
[13:53] <dobey> could just not ship a file manager by default
[13:56] <bcurtiswx> dobey: Who uses nautilus any more? Terminal for default!
[14:01] <dobey> well, nautilus really has a lot of other issues; the name certainly doesn't make sense any more itself. the name of the type of app it is doesn't make sense either, as it doesn't actually 'manage' anything. nautilus is slowly going away upstream as well. and really, the only people who care about it, are the same people who know/care enough to just install whichever one they want to use anyway. and it's a really horrible int
[14:02] <bcurtiswx> dobey, i don't quite understand the flow then. If nautilus is going away slowly, what has been slowly replacing it ?
[14:02] <mdeslaur> dobey: I do hope you're joking
[14:03] <jcastro> hyporbole much there dobey?
[14:03] <dobey> jcastro: like totally?
[14:03] <bcurtiswx> lol, ok then
[14:03] <mdeslaur> hehe
[14:04] <dobey> bcurtiswx: gnome is moving toward more integration with tracker, and i think there's a design for 'files' which nautilus may simply turn into. but the nautilus you know and love, is going away
[14:04] <dobey> mdeslaur: why would i be joking?
[14:05] <mdeslaur> dobey: I don't believe copying a file to a usb key is something only power users do :P
[14:05] <dobey> mdeslaur: and i don't believe you need a 'file manager' to do that.
[14:06] <mdeslaur> dobey: ok, how would you do it?
[14:07] <mdeslaur> you know, since it's all about the apps now, and the web is dead...maybe we shouldn't even install a web browser by default
[14:07] <dobey> mdeslaur: search for the thing i wish to copy, and then drag/drop it to the usb stick icon on the unity launcher, or hopefully right click and choose 'copy to foo'
[14:07] <mdeslaur> power users who still use the web can go to the app store and install a "web browser" if that's what they want
[14:07] <seb128> mterry, !!!!
[14:08] <mdeslaur> dobey: and you're searching in _what_ exactly? <- that would be a file manager
[14:08] <dobey> users copy files to usb devices all the time without a file manager
[14:08] <mdeslaur> dobey: ok, if you say so
[14:08] <mterry> seb128, hello!
[14:08] <dobey> mdeslaur: unity dash? libreoffice?
[14:09] <dobey> mdeslaur: well, what do you think itunes/banshee/rhythmbox do when they "sync" your music to your ipod? :)
[14:09] <mdeslaur> dobey: unity dash is a file manager, libreoffice has save, but a video player doesn't necessarily have a save button
[14:09] <seb128> mterry, how are you?
[14:09] <mterry> seb128, good.  What's up?
[14:09] <dobey> unity dash is not a file manager
[14:10] <mdeslaur> dobey: sure it is, it's just limited
[14:10] <dobey> it's a bunch of icons that resemble files that you can do very little with in unity itself
[14:10] <mdeslaur> dobey: right, a broken file manager :)
[14:10] <seb128> mterry, nothing, it's friday and I'm in a playful mood I think ;-) I wanted to say hey and see if the !!! would scare you away :p
[14:10] <dobey> mdeslaur: and by that argument, everything is a file manager, so we don't need to ship yet another one :)
[14:10] <mterry> seb128, :)  Happy Friday!
[14:11] <seb128> mterry, happy friday to you too !
[14:11] <mdeslaur> dobey: exactly, so let's add folders, and copy options to unity dash :P
[14:12] <dobey> mdeslaur: don't forget permisisons and other security related UI. the design team will absolutely ♥ you ;)
[14:12] <mdeslaur> dobey: you're the one who suggested replacing nautilus with dash, not me :)
[14:16] <bcurtiswx> Other than the time needed to add some patches to nautilus, the only other issues I've read are with "I could do X action with the old nautilus and it's broken now that I can't" and I don't think those are good reasons at all
[14:16] <dobey> no. i suggested just getting rid of nautilus. i said dash is where search generally happens in unity. and a proper search and indexing system that is integrated into all the apps would be much better for the users. the current 'search' in unity just does not work well.
[14:16] <mdeslaur> heck, even android has now added a file manager
[14:18] <bcurtiswx> wasn't there a rumor that fedora (or some OS) was hopping on the Unity train? if so there may be some patching help given there?
[14:19] <dobey> haha
[14:19] <dobey> no. someone packaged unity for fedora i think
[14:19] <dobey> but i certainly don't see redhat/fedora switching to unity
[14:19] <bcurtiswx> dobey: ok
[14:20] <dobey> redhat ~= gnome, lately
[14:20] <seb128> kenvandine, bcurtiswx: do you plan to update empathy to 3.5.5?
[14:20] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine would be the guy. I'm going on my honeymoon sunday-saturday :D
[14:21] <kenvandine> i already did :)
[14:21] <kenvandine> just not uploaded
[14:21]  * bcurtiswx hugs kenvandine
[14:21] <seb128> bcurtiswx, oh, enjoy!
[14:21] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, i guess you didn't see my request to test it?
[14:21] <kenvandine> my systems are all riddled with UOA stuff
[14:21]  * seb128 press the upload button for kenvandine
[14:21] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine: was it in IRC ?
[14:21] <kenvandine> so not a pristine GOA based setup
[14:21] <kenvandine> yeah
[14:21] <kenvandine> last night :)
[14:22] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, you have other things to do though..
[14:22] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine: you're better off e-mailing me. I have ZNC and sometime I don't see the PM's
[14:22] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine: i can test when I get home tonight
[14:22] <davmor2> Hey guys I just noticed that if my laptop goes to sleep I'm not having to type in a password to gain access to it
[14:22] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, don't worry about it
[14:22] <kenvandine> you worry about real life :)
[14:22] <seb128> davmor2, sounds good, let password annoyance?
[14:23] <kenvandine> have a great honeymoon
[14:23] <davmor2> sleep == screen lock previously rather than hibernate
[14:23] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine: lol. ok then
[14:23] <seb128> kenvandine, if you push to the desktop ppa I can try it
[14:24] <kenvandine> seb128, sure
[14:25] <mdeslaur> seb128: please don't tell me screen locking is all broken again in quantal?
[14:25] <seb128> mdeslaur, no reason it should, there were no real change that I know about
[14:25] <kenvandine> i have screen lock on suspend disabled :)
[14:26] <seb128> same here
[14:26] <mdeslaur> seb128: ok, cool
[14:26] <Laney> i don't, and it still works here
[14:26] <kenvandine> well, i read that gnome 3.5.5 release included a new screen lock
[14:26] <kenvandine> lock screen that is
[14:26] <kenvandine> but i don't think that affects us
[14:26] <kenvandine> seb128, uploaded to the ppa, i'll ping you when it is ready to test
[14:26] <seb128> we didn't update gdm nor gnome-shell
[14:27] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks, I will notice it, I've the ppa in my sources
[14:27] <kenvandine> seb128, i think all the changes in 3.5.5 are UOA related
[14:27] <kenvandine> it now provides account plugins for everything
[14:27] <kenvandine> :)
[14:27] <kenvandine> and you can set all the options in UOA
[14:27] <kenvandine> which is really nice :)
[14:28] <seb128> kenvandine, can I on quantal? ;-)
[14:28] <seb128> (without ppa)
[14:29] <kenvandine> not without the PPA yet :)
[14:29] <kenvandine> it's all in the preview ppa already though
[14:31] <seb128> kenvandine, I will wait, we need people who keep running quantal ;-)
[14:31] <seb128> kenvandine, otherwise you wouldn't have a tester for your upload :p
[14:35] <kenvandine> right :)
[14:35] <kenvandine> although it'll all be in quantal as soon as those reviews are done
[14:35]  * kenvandine hugs jdstrand
[14:41] <mvo> dobey: uploaded
[14:43] <dobey> mvo: awesome! thanks!
[14:45] <mvo> yw
[14:52] <mvo> didrocks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Bugs/UpdateManagerWarningForUnity3D <- a stub for you guys
[14:54] <didrocks> mvo: excellent, thanks, I'll see if we need to add more here :) btw, if you want to reference a bug in ubuntu-release-upgrader, there is bug #1035261 for the transition
[14:54] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1035261 in unity "Port compiz to gsettings and consequently remove unity-2d" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1035261
[14:56] <didrocks> mvo: and btw, to be able to remove unity-2d from the distro (because the old version is broken by newer metacity), I need to have dummy transitional package to unity I guess? (I think we need that anyway for those removing unity and keeping unity-2d)
[14:56] <didrocks> or should just unity provides/conflicts all unity-2d packages?
[14:58] <mvo> didrocks: going with transitional package for robustness is a good idea I think
[15:00] <didrocks> mvo: ok, let's create a bunch of them then! \o/
[15:00] <didrocks> mvo: thanks :)
[15:00]  * didrocks transitional package professional, years of experience starting with netbook-launcher, renaming, and so on ;)
[15:01] <mvo> lol
[15:01]  * mvo hugs did
[15:01]  * mvo hugs didrocks
[15:01] <vibhav> Are there any easy bugs that I can help with?
[15:02]  * didrocks hugs mvo back
[15:05] <dobey> seiflotfy: just uploaded the gdk fix for ubuntu-sso-client
[15:08] <younder> Is there any documentation on the general architecure of the ubuntu desktop?
[15:22] <mterry> My window buttons are on the right now...  How'd that happen?
[15:23] <seb128> mterry, gconf corruption?
[15:23] <seb128> dobey, what the gdk fix info for me?
[15:25] <kenvandine> seb128, amd64 built... i386 failed because of the webkit in the ppa :)
[15:25] <kenvandine>  build/buildd/empathy-3.5.5/libempathy-gtk/empathy-theme-adium.c:796: undefined reference to `webkit_dom_html_element_set_class_name'
[15:25] <seb128> kenvandine, oh, come on!
[15:26] <kenvandine> you should have seen that coming! :)
[15:26]  * kenvandine snickers
[15:27] <seb128> webkit is haunting me
[15:29] <didrocks> mterry: you are not the only who reported it in the past month
[15:29] <didrocks> that's weird, indeed
[15:29] <didrocks> seb128: what's best for a friday evening? :)
[15:30] <seb128> didrocks, not webkit for sure!
[15:33] <kenvandine> webkit and a glass of wine... a fine friday evening
[15:33] <didrocks> heh
[15:53] <blkperl> Hi guys, I'm trying to get Precise working with nfs mounted homedirs and on login dconf-service hangs, the open file is $USER/.config/dconf/user and when you try to ls it hangs as well.
[16:25] <dobey> seb128: bug #937132
[16:25] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 937132 in ubuntu-sso-client "ubuntu-sso-login crashed with RuntimeError in /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/gi/overrides/Gdk.py: Gdk couldn't be initialized" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/937132
[16:25] <didrocks> have a good evening and week-end everyone
[16:26] <seb128> dobey, thanks!
[16:50] <HelpMeeee> hello
[16:51] <HelpMeeee> I want to install ubuntu but i cant :( it freezes
[17:32] <seb128> kenvandine, new empathy works fine here
[17:33] <kenvandine> seb128, great
[17:33]  * kenvandine uploads
[17:34] <kenvandine> done
[17:34] <kenvandine> thanks!
[17:34] <seb128> reboot, brb
[17:34] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine: what changed this time around?
[17:35] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, all UOA stuff
[17:35] <kenvandine> so you won't notice anything in quantal yet
[17:35] <kenvandine> until i enable that
[17:35] <kenvandine> it's in the PPA though
[17:35] <kenvandine> no more need for empathy-accounts :)
[17:36] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine: if FF is coming soon, when are you going to enable it ?
[17:37] <kenvandine> as soon as the depends are all in main
[17:37] <kenvandine> 3 of them are being reviewed by security now
[17:37] <bcurtiswx> and the FFX work is done?
[17:37] <bcurtiswx> or still only chromium?
[17:37] <kenvandine> we can't land the firefox stuff yet
[17:38] <kenvandine> waiting for mozilla to OK it
[17:41] <younder> Is there any documentation on the general architecure of the ubuntu desktop?
[17:42] <younder> Like  which window manager it is built on and what is added to it.
[17:46] <seb128> dobey, could you put the testcase,rational,regression potential infos on the sso SRU bug?
[17:50] <dobey> seb128: i have no idea how people are getting that bug to happen; but the fix is obvious to me from reading the traceback. so i'm not sure how to force it to happen as-is
[17:51] <seb128> dobey, just write a "no easy way to test, just make sure it still works and check that reports stop"
[17:57] <dobey> seb128: updated the description with the info
[19:39] <mterry> Sweetshark, this set of MIRs for libreoffice-report-builder-bin.  The other bug says you talked to seb128 and we don't need them in main after all?
[21:08] <MCR1> smspillaz: Are you around ?


[00:38] <scientes> how do i view a revicsion patch ?
[00:38] <scientes> like "git show"
[00:38] <fullermd> Not entirely sure what that does, but 'diff' would be a good start.
[00:39] <scientes> i have a revision number
[00:46] <bob2> bzr diff -cXXX


[01:23] <tsimonq2> h00k! Hello sirrrrrrrrrrrrr
[14:20] <h00k> morning
[16:01] <tsimonq2> h00k: How are you today?
[16:13] <h00k> tsimonq2: Eh, it's Monday and I have to work late.


[04:43] <mup> Bug #1979568 changed: lxd Virtual Machines are not deployed sometimes. <MAAS:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1979568>
[04:43] <mup> Bug #1990761 changed: Error performing rename("eth1", "eno1") ... RTNETLINK answers: File exists <MAAS:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1990761>
[13:10] <mup> Bug #2046255 opened: For every interface MAAS is adding an A record for the name <machine>.<domain> <MAAS:Triaged> <MAAS 3.3:Triaged> <MAAS 3.4:Triaged> <MAAS 3.5:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/2046255>
[13:19] <mup> Bug #2046255 changed: For every interface MAAS is adding an A record for the name <machine>.<domain> <MAAS:Triaged> <MAAS 3.3:Triaged> <MAAS 3.4:Triaged> <MAAS 3.5:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/2046255>
[13:22] <mup> Bug #2046255 opened: For every interface MAAS is adding an A record for the name <machine>.<domain> <MAAS:Triaged> <MAAS 3.3:Triaged> <MAAS 3.4:Triaged> <MAAS 3.5:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/2046255>


[00:11] <Unit193> yano: Actually yeah, are you permitted to say why most of the peered US servers aren't in the main rotation?
[00:26] <Unit193> paultag: Danke.
[00:33] <paultag> Unit193: bitte
[01:30] <yano> Unit193: they aren't?
[01:30] <jenni> yano: 08 Jul 20:46Z <Nothing4You> tell yano 42
[01:30] <jenni> yano: 08 Jul 20:46Z <Nothing4You> tell yano IT'S A SIGN
[01:31] <Unit193> yano: Heh, nope.
[01:31] <yano> weird
[01:31] <yano> how are you checking the main rotation?
[01:31]  * skellat wonders what is up with jenni and further ponders inviting Ryan Finnie's x11r5 in to the channel eventually
[01:32] <yano> jenni has the ability to relay messages to people when they come back from being afk
[01:32] <yano> using ".tell"
[01:32] <jenni> yano: That is not true.
[01:33] <yano> and she also has an AI, too
[01:33] <yano> you can read up on her documentation here, https://github.com/myano/jenni/wiki
[01:33] <jenni> [ Home · myano/jenni Wiki · GitHub ] - http://j.mp/hstVJs
[01:33] <yano> :-)
[01:34] <Unit193> yano: Well, I'm just checking the DNS record, but I think it was the same last time.
[01:34] <Unit193> for ip in `dig +short chat.freenode.net`;do geoiplookup -f /usr/share/GeoIP/GeoIP.dat $ip | grep US && echo $ip;done
[01:39] <yano> Unit193: we add and remove stuff routinely for load balancing
[01:40] <Unit193> Yeah, wasn't sure if you'd remove 3 of 4 US servers for that, and as I said, not sure if they were also missing last time.  Sorry for taking time.
[01:43] <yano> no worries :-)
[01:48] <Unit193> Sooo, should I ask you in a few days if they're still missing? :P
[01:48] <yano> you could, but you could check for yourself :-p
[01:50] <Unit193> Oh, I do compare what US servers are in the rotation and compare it to US servers online.
[13:28] <thafreak> .weather 4256
[13:28] <jenni> Cover Unknown, ?, ?mb, (wind unknown) - LBPD 13:00Z
[13:28] <thafreak> .weather 44256
[13:28] <jenni> Overcast ☁, 77.0°F (25°C), 30.02in (1013mb), Light breeze 6kt (↑) - KCLE 13:25Z
[13:30] <paultag> .weather 02110
[13:30] <jenni> Overcast ☁, 68.0°F (20°C), 30.10in (1016mb), Mist, Light breeze 4kt (↑) - KBOS, 12:54Z
[15:30] <Darkwing> .weather 46835
[15:30] <jenni> Clear ☼, 82.4°F (28°C), 30.04in (1014mb), Moderate breeze 11kt (↑) - KGUS 14:58Z
[15:49] <Unit193> Temp: 77 F (25 C) ~ Overcast ~ Heat index: NA ~ Humidity: 89% ~ Alert: Flood Warning
[16:10] <skellat> .weather 44005
[16:10] <jenni> Overcast ☁, 73.4°F (23°C), 30.05in (1014mb), Light Rain, Mist, Light breeze 5kt (↑) - KYNG, 15:51Z
[18:06] <skellat> http://fox8.com/2013/07/09/mansfield-shelby-flooded-after-heavy-rains/
[18:06] <jenni> [ Shelby, Mansfield Suffer Flooding | FOX8.com ] - http://j.mp/186xzHs
[18:07] <skellat> Anybody treading water?
[18:18] <Unit193> http://www.ohiolinux.org/expo so already have a booth?
[18:18] <jenni> [ Exhibits | Ohio LinuxFest 2013 ] - http://j.mp/186ywPX
[18:20] <Unit193> Hrm, is jenni just slow at parsing pages or j.mp slow API?
[18:21] <skellat> Unit193: Considering I haven't signed a table contract, THAT is interesting
[18:21] <skellat> Unless, oh crap, THAT is where we'll be doing UbuCon


[01:51] <callmepk> good morning
[01:55] <duflu> Morning callmepk
[01:56] <callmepk> morning duflu
[05:30] <luna> morning
[05:40] <duflu> Hi luna
[05:54] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[06:01] <didrocks> good morning
[06:06] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks
[06:07] <duflu> Hi oSoMoN and didrocks
[06:09] <oSoMoN> hey duflu
[06:13] <didrocks> salut oSoMoN, hey duflu
[06:21] <callmepk> morning luna oSoMoN didrocks
[06:34] <oSoMoN> hey callmepk
[07:03] <ricotz> good morning
[07:03]  * ricotz eyes the arm64 autopkgtest of libreoffice
[07:05] <didrocks> hey callmepk
[08:02] <Laney> ello
[08:04] <RikMills> ricotz: I did more than eye it. it involved swear words
[08:06] <RikMills> oh, and morning :)
[08:11] <duflu> Hi Laney
[08:11] <duflu> and hi RikMills
[08:17] <didrocks> hey Laney
[08:21] <ricotz> hey Laney RikMills duflu didrocks
[08:21] <ricotz> RikMills, haha, it looks good, just took a lot of time
[08:21] <didrocks> hey ricotz
[08:22] <ricotz> so I am hoping libreoffice will transition soon
[08:22] <RikMills> ricotz: pleased for you. mine got a random badpkg on one test as something somewhere in the archive must have been hinky
[08:24] <RikMills> such are things though
[08:24] <ricotz> yeah. random failures are fun :(
[08:28] <seb128> goood morningg desktopers
[08:30] <RikMills> would be nice if we could see the log of running tests so you know that test 1/17 subtests has failed, and not have to wait another 18hrs to find that out
[08:31] <didrocks> hey seb128
[08:37] <duflu> Morning seb128
[08:50] <ricotz> hey seb128
[09:25] <seb128> Laney, thanks for doing those metrics codereviews!
[09:39] <Laney> hey seb128 & others, sorry I didn't re-hey, feels too long to highlight you back!
[09:39] <Laney> np
[09:42] <Laney> seb128: did you see that it semi broke the panel though? probably needs a where report = 'sponsoring' or report = 'ubuntu' now or something?
[09:49] <seb128> Laney, no, I'm going to check that in a bit, thanks for pointing it out
[09:53] <Laney> 👍
[10:03] <seb128> k, updated now
[10:04] <Laney> nice one
[14:30] <hellsworth> good morning desktopers
[14:46] <seb128> Trevinho, you might want to send that emoji email to ubuntu-translators@ rather than to coordinators
[14:46] <Trevinho> seb128: sent to both... wasn't sure what was the proper one :P
[14:46] <seb128> k
[15:38] <Trevinho> seb128: I was talking with Laney about it and maybe we could just use the same strategy of pkgstriptranslations, and leave to langpack-o-matic to put it in the localized package?
[15:38] <Trevinho> however, while looking at it, do you have any clue why tusty is hardcoded there?! https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/langpack-o-matic/main/revision/534
[15:39] <Trevinho> aren't we loading static translations from newer releases?
[15:45] <seb128> Trevinho, where is it hardcoded exactly?
[15:45] <Trevinho> sorry I sent you the base link..
[15:45] <Trevinho> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/langpack-o-matic/main/view/head:/import#L300
[15:46] <Trevinho> not sure if that else meant to be removed and use translations += ...
[15:46] <Trevinho> I mean use the old ones + the new ones, but...
[18:57] <seb128> Trevinho, hum, I would need to check, I will try to do that tomorrow
[18:57] <Trevinho> ok
[18:58] <seb128> but sounds like the fallback might need to be smarter indeed


[13:21] <CyrusYzGTt_> help
[13:21] <CyrusYzGTt_> someone do this [21:12] == mode/#ubuntu-cn [+b<EMAIL_ADDRESS>by cfy
[13:21] <CyrusYzGTt_> i hope to get help
[13:22] <CyrusYzGTt_> it's #ubuntu-cn
[13:23] <Myrtti> why?
[13:24] <CyrusYzGTt_> i don't konw
[13:24] <CyrusYzGTt_> know
[13:27] <Myrtti> no I mean, why do you want that banned?
[13:27] <Myrtti> you do realise it bans everyone that uses the webchat?
[13:27] <Pici> Myrtti: I think CyrusYzGTt_ is saying that cfy banned that range and now they cannot enter the channel.
[13:27] <Myrtti> right
[13:28] <Myrtti> that would make more sense
[13:30] <CyrusYzGTt_> no one can help me
[13:32] <Pici> CyrusYzGTt_: That ban is not currently active.
[13:32] <Pici> CyrusYzGTt_: try to rejoin.
[13:34] <CyrusYzGTt_> i think someone should get warning
[18:12] <m4v> hey IRCC, sometime ago I asked about getting access in #lubuntu-es, was the lubuntu namespace and GC thing sorted out?
[18:16] <AlanBell> hi m4v, I wasn't aware there was such a channel!
[18:17] <m4v> AlanBell: yeah, is mostly abandoned, last time I wanted to close it because it was used by trolls
[18:17] <dax> mhm, the only person on the ACL looks pretty gone.
[18:17] <m4v> AlanBell: but now looks like we have a want-to-be-regular that isn't me in the channel, so I wanted to set it up properly
[18:19] <m4v> dax: yeah, is been ages since last time I saw molinero, i think I wasn't op then
[18:20] <AlanBell> not logged on for 36 weeks
[18:21] <AlanBell> m4v: Unit193: so how do you want this one set up?
[18:22] <m4v> yo mean the access list? give an +F to m4v, he never studies.
[18:23] <m4v> tought a lowercase +f is also enough
[18:23] <m4v> plus the other thingies that letme set the topic.
[18:24] <m4v> :P
[18:24] <Unit193> rafaellaguna is the only lubuer listed with Spanish, and he's not normally online.
[18:24] <dax> (+t to do it through chanserv, +o to op and do it that way)
[18:25] <AlanBell> dax: can you help with +F for UbuntuIrcCouncil and I can sort out the rest?
[18:26] <dax> AlanBell: done
[18:26] <AlanBell> thanks
[18:28] <AlanBell> m4v: ok, that should do you, I left molinero there as it is doing no harm and might come back online at some point
[18:29] <m4v> AlanBell: yes. same thing I did in #xubuntu-es
[19:18] <m4v> AlanBell: please add *!*@ubuntu/member/* +votriA to the access list as well
[19:23] <Nafallo> ubuntu/member?
[19:23] <Nafallo> isn't that a bit broad?
[19:24] <Myrtti> many channels have that on their access list
[19:24] <Unit193> Yes, I've seen LoCos with that.
[19:24] <Nafallo> wow
[19:24] <m4v> I use it for channels that lack ops, cause I'm not going to be there 24hs
[19:24] <Nafallo> okay
[19:24] <Pici> Anyone who is an Ubuntu member should have enough sense to not overtly abuse that.
[19:25] <Myrtti> votriA isn't wide enough to cause real problems anyway
[19:25] <Myrtti> ie. something that can't be fixed
[19:26] <Nafallo> *shrugs* I guess
[19:26] <Fuchs> we have votiA for members in #ubuntu-de and never had issues
[19:41] <guntbert> help.ubuntu.com/community seems unreachable - after long waiting I get a timeout/server error from some proxy
[19:41] <Pici> works for me.
[19:41] <k1l> works from germany
[19:42] <Unit193> You're the second person I've seen today with issues (But, works for me™)
[19:42] <guntbert> strange - help.ubuntu.com works fine, but then...
[19:43] <AlanBell> they have been tweaking that site and installed a new theme on it, the theme is now broken for logged in people who have a custom theme set, if you can get to your preferences you can fix it by selecting another theme
[19:43] <guntbert> are you able to login too - that wasn't possible for sevral hours at least (for me :-))
[19:44] <guntbert> AlanBell: how can I get to my preferences?
[19:45] <AlanBell> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Fstab?action=userprefs&sub=prefs or similar might do it
[19:49] <guntbert> AlanBell: thx, but alas it is the same path...    I get http://imagebin.org/210540  :-(
[19:50] <AlanBell> well that isn't so good guntbert
[19:50] <Unit193> Try clearing your session?
[19:51] <k1l> try private mode or delete cookie?
[19:54] <guntbert> k1l: good idea - so I got read access at least - logging in still won't work
[19:58] <guntbert> has anybody been able to actually log in - I wanted to remove a broken link - on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH/OpenSSH/Advanced, at the bottom, "Using your browser as SSH client" leads to a parking site
[20:59] <utlemming> Hi, I was sent over to request my IRC cloak.
[20:59] <cielak> hello everyone!
[20:59] <Myrtti> things roll quicker if you can provide the launchpad url
[20:59] <mhmodIbrhm> Helloo every one
[20:59] <cielak> yup, I so I do :)
[20:59] <Fuchs> also if you identify to services :p
[20:59] <Myrtti> also, please ident...
[20:59] <Myrtti> pah.
[21:00] <Fuchs> utlemming: you are currently not identified to services, please  identify :)
[21:00] <Fuchs> Myrtti: sorry dear, you can do the cloaks then, and here, have some tasty fish  *throws*
[21:00] <mhmodIbrhm> hello every one
[21:00] <mhmodIbrhm> :)
[21:00] <Myrtti> arp arp arp
[21:00] <AlanBell> !register
[21:01] <cielak> right, so I guess I have already registered
[21:01] <Fuchs> cielak: yes, you look fine
[21:02] <utlemming> Fucks: odd, I'm already registered...and I have to provide a password to use my nick
[21:03] <Fuchs> utlemming: well, if that nick is yours, then you just need to identify. And yes, this takes a password
[21:03] <utlemming> AH! I am so sorry. I meant Fuchs
[21:03] <Fuchs> utlemming: also note that the <tab> key can complete nicks for you, to spare you some possible embarassing typos  ;p
[21:03] <tanne> Hi @all
[21:04] <tanne> some ubuntu-arm specialists online? ;)
[21:04] <Fuchs> tanne: you are probably looking for one of the support channels
[21:04] <Fuchs> tanne: have you tried #ubuntu?
[21:04] <Myrtti> or development channels
[21:04] <Fuchs> or that, yes
[21:04] <k1l> #ubuntu-arm exists imho
[21:05] <tanne> can't write to ..-arm
[21:05] <Fuchs> tanne: try identifying to services
[21:05] <Fuchs> tanne: if you don't have a registered nick yet, see http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
[21:05] <tanne> identifying? how?
[21:06] <Fuchs> oh, wait,
[21:06] <Fuchs> actually #ubuntu-arm quieted the web gateway
[21:06] <Fuchs> you'd have to use a real client then
[21:06] <tanne> ok
[21:13] <utlemming> Fuchs: I think I'm idented properly now.  https://launchpad.net/~utlemming
[21:14] <Fuchs> utlemming: hrm, no, you still appear to be unidentified.   /msg nickserv identify  yourpasswordhere    should work, if that is your nick
[21:22] <Fuchs> utlemming: now you appear to be identified :)
[21:22] <utlemming> Fuchs: yeah, my client (Konversation) looks like it hasn't logged me in a few months
[21:22] <mhmodibrhm> well, i fuchs, i want to be added too :)
[21:23] <Fuchs> mhmodibrhm: can't do anything for you yet, IRCC has to confirm cloak requests  (linking to your launchpad site would probably help, then I think I could prod AlanBell)
[21:23] <Fuchs> utlemming: you are aware that you already have a cloak?  A canonical one, to be precise
[21:23] <AlanBell> oh, I missed that bit :)
[21:23] <utlemming> yeah, I was seeing that...so I think we'll just let things be
[21:23] <AlanBell> yes mhmodibrhm and cielak and utlemming are all approved for cloaks
[21:24] <utlemming> I forgot I got that one
[21:24] <Fuchs> utlemming: well, we can also change cloaks, in the end I'll leave it to you
[21:24] <AlanBell> the ubuntu one is a much nicer colour than the canonical one
[21:24] <Fuchs> utlemming: you can also change your mind later on, as long as IRCC confirms that you can have the cloak
[21:24] <mhmodibrhm> AlanBell, what shoud i do know to request one :)
[21:25] <utlemming> Fuchs: okay, if I want to change it later, I'll ping someone here
[21:25] <Fuchs> utlemming: sure :)
[21:25] <Fuchs> utlemming: congratulations to your membership anyway :)
[21:25] <utlemming> thx :)
[21:26] <cielak> AlanBell: do cloacks have color?
[21:26] <Fuchs> AlanBell: you can just give me the cloak formats you want for the other new members, then I'll apply them
[21:27] <AlanBell> cielak: I was teasing
[21:27] <cielak> ah :)
[21:28] <AlanBell> can we have /ubuntu/member/cielak for cielak and /ubuntu/member/mhmodibrhm for mhmodibrhm please
[21:28] <Fuchs> cielak done, congratulations :)
[21:29] <Fuchs> mhmodibrhm: also done, congratulations to you as well
[21:29] <AlanBell> thanks Fuchs
[21:29] <mhmodibrhm> thanks :)
[21:29] <cielak> thanks Fuchs, AlanBell!
[21:30] <mhmodibrhm> thanks Fuchs, AlanBell :)
[21:30] <Fuchs> AlanBell: you're welcome
[21:30] <Fuchs> and the rest of you of course :)
[21:30] <Fuchs> (sorry M yrtti for taking away your work, you'll get more fish)
[22:15] <mhmodibrhm> Fuchs: i have just changed my lunchpad id , is that affect my cloak?
[22:16] <AlanBell> mhmodibrhm: no it doesn't
[22:16] <Effenberg0x0> Hi, channel #Ubuntu+1 is set to invite only for some days. People are wondering what's going on. I did a /who and found a single user with a suspicious host. Could be a takeover. Just thought I should notify you of that possibility.
[22:16] <Myrtti> it's not a takeover
[22:17] <AlanBell> Effenberg0x0: it is closed because there is no +1 at the moment, it will reopen around the time of UDS
[22:18] <Myrtti> the quality of the discussion on the channel went fairly low and the channel has been closed down temporarily to prevent the misuse of it, and will reopen soonish, as AlanBell mentioned
[22:18] <Effenberg0x0> Myrtti, AlanBell: Oh, ok then, thanks.
[22:19] <mhmodibrhm> AlanBell: how could i make sure that my cloak is working well , and Thank you for your patient and help :)
[22:22] <k1l_> "same precedure as every release"  @ #ubuntu+1
[22:23] <Myrtti> k1l_: was that a reference to Dinner for One? because I lol'd
[22:23] <k1l_> :)
[22:27] <mhmodibrhm> AlanBell: thanks .. i figured out it now .. i was just a little confused about the hall things