[00:00] <RAOF> kais58: gnome-session-save --logout :)
[00:00] <RAOF> (Unity *is* a GNOME session ☺)
[00:01] <kais58> but does it report as gnome or unity in $DESKTOP_SESSION?
[00:03] <kais58> ok, thanks theres something else wrong with this script then
[00:04] <kais58> oh, and another thing, is it possible to lock the menu bar?
[00:09]  * RAOF is not sure what you mean by “menu bar”
[00:09] <hicham> how to get the menus on the panel ?
[00:09] <RAOF> hicham: As in the global menu bar?
[00:10] <hicham> RAOF: show the menu bar on the panel
[00:10] <hicham> RAOF: yes
[00:10] <hicham> RAOF: how do I enable that ?
[00:10] <kais58> the thing on the left that slides out
[00:11] <RAOF> kais58: That's referred to as “the launcher”, and you can change its autohide behaviour in CompizConfig Settings Manager - look for the Unity plugin.
[00:11] <hicham> RAOF: I installed indicator-application, but no go
[00:12] <RAOF> hicham: From memory, you need a GTK patch to enable the functionality, have a GTK module loaded to actually export the menus, and then there's something like a unity-panel-service on the other end to draw them in unity.
[00:13] <hicham> RAOF: where can I find that patch ?
[00:13] <RAOF> In Ubuntu's GTK packages, certainly; I'm not sure where else.
[00:14] <hicham> so only gtk software can draw the menu on the panel ?
[00:18] <RAOF> hicham: No, I believe Qt can too.
[00:18] <RAOF> hicham: I don't think athena apps can, though :)
[00:19] <hicham> RAOF: are you a unity dev ?
[00:19] <RAOF> No.
[02:29] <Th3Pr0ph3t> Greetings, I think I have discovered a way to make compiz crash like crazy...
[02:30] <Th3Pr0ph3t> Opening ccsm: Window Decorations
[02:30] <Omega> Submit a bug report.
[02:30] <Th3Pr0ph3t> sure ^_^
[02:32] <hicham> just enable/disable Window Decorations ?
[02:35] <RAOF> There's a known crasher when enabling or disabling plugins with the Unity plugin loaded (that's really annoying!)
[02:35] <Th3Pr0ph3t> no, I was explaining but yes, a bug report is more reasonable
[02:36] <Th3Pr0ph3t> so I'll report a bug (what was I thinking :$)
[02:38] <aquarius> RAOF, heya. I just wanted to let you know; since upgrading yesterday to the latest everything, the compiz hanging in __poll problem has got a lot, lot worse -- compiz has hung, needing killing, fourteen times today so far :(
[02:39] <RAOF>  !!!
[02:40] <aquarius> yeah. It's, shall we say, quite annoying :)
[02:40] <RAOF> aquarius: :(.  DBO worked around one extremely common manifestation of that bug.
[02:40] <aquarius> it *seems* to be related to new windows opening, or chromium, or both, but I don't have any real evidence for that
[02:41] <RAOF> Well, I'm gdb-ing both sides of the compiz/X connection; hopefully that'll provide a useful pointer.
[02:41] <RAOF> The testcases that I've tried to build haven't managed to reproduce the problem so far.
[02:42] <aquarius> cool. I was in two minds about whether to mention it, since I don't have anything useful to add other than just to be whiny about it, but I thought you might want to know :)
[03:02] <DBO> RAOF, howdy
[03:03] <RAOF> DBO: Hey, ho.  Sigh.
[03:03] <DBO> i am not a ho
[03:04] <DBO> RAOF, any luck?
[03:18] <RAOF> DBO: Appologies.  The OOM killer decided to wander in.
[03:18] <DBO> its okay
[03:18] <DBO> so, any luck?
[03:19] <RAOF> DBO: Not just yet, sorry.
[03:19] <RAOF> GAH!  Stupid damned “value optimized out”
[03:20] <DBO> cant you compile it to not do that?
[03:20] <DBO> -O0
[03:36] <DBO> RAOF, do you have any theories?
[03:41] <RAOF> My current theory is that (one of) compiz's Xserver client is being throttled by the server, possibly pending a reply on one of compiz' other clients.
[03:42] <DBO> why would the server throttle compiz?
[03:42] <RAOF> Compiz does a bunch of DRI2 stuff that results in a client getting throttled.
[03:42] <RAOF> As in: by *design* a bunch of the DRI2 calls throttle the client until $CONDITION.
[03:42] <RAOF> Things like DRI2WaitMSC, for example.
[03:43] <RAOF> But!  That should only effect that particular connection, not compiz' other connections.
[03:44] <DBO> well are we sure the hang happens on non-compiz connections?
[03:44] <RAOF> As in: on compiz' gtk connection?
[03:44] <DBO> yeah
[03:45] <DBO> how do you know which connection is what?
[03:45] <RAOF> By the magic of printf "Connection: %p",dpy :)
[03:46] <RAOF> But you're right; that doesn't make it clear whether it's GTK's connection or not.
[03:46] <RAOF> But I believe maximise hang *was* gtk's connection, because it was going through gdk_do_stuff.
[03:46] <DBO> yeah but how many connections were you seeing
[03:47] <DBO> I hear rumors that gtk actually grabs the "default connection"
[03:47] <DBO> which I didn't even know what possible
[03:47] <RAOF> Oh.
[03:47] <RAOF> I was *seeing* 2 connections.
[03:48] <DBO> you were only ever seeing 2 connections?
[03:48] <DBO> i mean the compiz one should be easy to spot
[03:48] <DBO> it does fuckloads of stuff
[03:49] <RAOF> Right.
[03:49] <RAOF> I was only checking in the Undecorate() case, so I could have missed one of the connections.
[03:52] <DBO> ah
[03:56] <DBO> RAOF, is it possible that the dri2 call throttles ALL x calls until some other call is made?
[03:59] <RAOF> A quick bit of gdberry says: yes, compiz has at least 3 display connections.
[04:00] <RAOF> DBO: Yes and no.  It *does* throttle all X calls *made by that client* , but compiz has 3 distinct clients happening.
[04:01] <RAOF> (One X client per X connection)
[04:02] <DBO> well thats weird
[04:03] <RAOF> That's not exactly been an uncommon phrase :)
[04:08] <DBO> RAOF, look if you have managed to find internet in the sunken continent of Australia, I am sure you can find this bug :)
[04:08] <RAOF> Yeah.  Let's play ‘watch the X server and compiz at the same time to match up display connections!’
[04:09] <RAOF> This will be *fun*!
[04:09] <DBO> this is a team activity
[04:09] <DBO> we need to get this up on a projector
[04:09] <DBO> and then do it that way :P
[04:10] <soreau> Can anyone running compiz/unity test amsn? Another user showed it crashes compiz on opensuse 11.4 and it happens here too on maverick
[04:11] <soreau> It crashes compiz, then after restarting compiz, the windows are the smallest they can be, like a vertical line the height of the decorator
[04:11] <soreau> Here is his backtrace http://pastebin.com/Q64yxcdC
[04:12] <soreau> And the one I get here http://sprunge.us/YURQ
[04:13]  * RAOF breaks out the notepad to keep track of display connections.
[04:13] <soreau> I was wondering if there's any other apps that use wish to test with, but I couldn't google it because 'wish' is a really bad name for a program :P
[04:14] <soreau> Does this happen on natty too? (I'm about to test)
[04:28] <RAOF> Wow.  How many connections does compiz actually open!
[04:38] <DBO> RAOF, i dont know
[04:38] <DBO> should be 1
[04:38] <DBO> then 1 for nux
[04:38] <DBO> then 1 for gdk
[04:39] <RAOF> Starting compiz seems to cause about 8 connections to be opened.  I'm not sure where :)
[04:39] <DBO> really...
[04:39] <DBO> are you check to see if some of them dont quickly die?
[04:44] <RAOF> Oh, some of them probably *do* quickly die.
[04:44] <RAOF> I think you're right in that the compiz process calls XOpenDisplay 3 times.
[04:47] <RAOF> Bah.  Maybe some tea will make this less annoying.
[04:48] <RAOF> For comparison: starting gnome-screensaver-preferences results in 7 calls to AllocNewConnection :)
[04:50] <DBO> O_o
[04:50] <DBO> so at that rate we should be able to open *counts* 24 applications
[05:09] <DBO> RAOF, do X connections even communicate their parent process?
[05:09] <DBO> RAOF, can X tell that one app opened multiple X connections?
[05:10] <RAOF> DBO: It can, I think, but it currently doesn't.
[05:10] <RAOF> It would make it easier if it did, because then I could just filter out all the connections which don't have compiz on the other end!
[05:11] <DBO> ha
[05:13] <RAOF> Oh, would you believe it?  Geis also opens a display connection.
[05:13] <DBO> wtf
[05:13] <DBO> why would it do that...
[05:13] <DBO> it has its own fd
[05:14] <DBO> so we are using 4 of the 256 X connections
[05:14] <DBO> if every application starts using geis, each app uses 2
[05:14] <DBO> so thats immediately down to what, 126 application instances?
[05:14] <DBO> god thats dumb
[05:15] <RAOF> Yay (small) arbitrary limits!
[05:15] <RAOF> Ok.  Now I know all the connections on both sides: which Display in the compiz process corresponds to which Client in X.
[05:16] <DBO> awesome
[05:19] <RAOF> Ok.  So, as expected, Compiz' client is getting blocked all the time; each time it calls WaitMSC.
[05:21] <RAOF> Man, it does that a lot.
[05:23] <RAOF> At 60Hz, in fact :)
[05:30] <DBO> so, every draw
[05:30] <DBO> what does that clal do?
[05:33] <RAOF> DBO - it's the ‘wait for vblank’ call.
[05:34] <DBO> oh
[05:34] <DBO> then yeah
[05:34] <DBO> that makes sense
[05:34] <RAOF> It does indeed.
[05:34] <DBO> but that call should just block right?
[05:34] <RAOF> From the X protocol side of things - no.
[05:34] <RAOF> I'm not sure if libGL wraps it so it blocks.
[05:35] <RAOF> It *will* block any further X commands, though.
[05:35] <DBO> i thought it blocked to be honest
[05:35] <RAOF> libGL might turn it into a blocking request.
[05:35] <DBO> does disabling the sync to vblank fix the freeze for you?
[05:36] <DBO> that would disable that call
[05:36] <RAOF> I don't know.  However, I've got it to freeze in Undecorate again, and none of the clients are actually ignored, so it doesn't appear to be that.
[05:37] <DBO> does X actually send a reply back?
[05:37] <RAOF> For WaitMSC?
[05:39] <RAOF> Yes, but the reply is the current MSC data.
[05:41] <DBO> RAOF, no when it blocks
[05:41] <DBO> so it blocks in poll right
[05:41] <RAOF> Right.
[05:41] <DBO> so does X actually send a reply back
[05:42] <RAOF> Well, it doesn't appear to; it's blocked in poll :).  I'm scooting through the X-side client to see what's what.
[05:45] <RAOF> Hm.  The gdk client has some input.
[05:51] <DBO> RAOF, so you are saying its gdk's fault
[05:51] <RAOF> Sorry.  The X server's client corresponding to gdk's Display has some input.  I'm not sure if that's expected, though.
[05:56] <DBO> when it freezes?
[05:58] <RAOF> Yeah.
[06:02] <DBO> could it be that xcb_wait_for_reply fails if there is already stuff n the queue???
[06:12]  * DBO gives RAOF the keg of glory
[06:21] <RAOF> Good.    A… 3 minute IRC lag :)
[07:04] <RAOF> That was from my other system.
[07:04] <DBO> O_o
[07:04] <DBO> RAOF, you'll fix it :) I have faith
[07:04] <DBO> and if you don't
[07:04] <DBO> well, thats what fire was made for
[07:05] <RAOF> :)
[07:05] <RAOF> A superior being such as myself has only one option: burn them.
[07:05] <DBO> actually we will just have to collect ever condition this happens in
[07:05] <DBO> and juggle which x connection gets used
[07:05] <DBO> OH!
[07:05] <RAOF> To avoid the madness.  Yah.
[07:05] <DBO> interesting fact I found
[07:05] <DBO> I forgot about this till now
[07:05] <DBO> might be relevant
[07:06] <DBO> we had a similar issue to this in nux once
[07:06] <DBO> basically what would happen is nux would lock up just like this
[07:06] <RAOF> This does sound interesting, yes.
[07:06] <DBO> it calls XQueryKeymap or some shit when it processes events
[07:06] <DBO> so its all normal when it's just nux
[07:07] <DBO> but it started screwing up when we began processing events that came from compiz
[07:07] <DBO> after looking at it more, we determined that by using the Display provided by the XEvent, the locking stopped
[07:07] <DBO> no idea why
[07:07] <RAOF> Yeah, that's going to be the same problem.
[07:07] <RAOF> Or, probably is.
[07:08] <DBO> yeah
[07:08] <DBO> but it somehow has to do with using X calls from a different Display when compiz is processing events
[07:08] <DBO> the fix for the maximize issue was pretty simple
[07:08] <RAOF> However - if you write a small testcase that does nothing but call XGetWindowProperty on Display x in response to PropertyNotify on Display y then you won't lock up.
[07:08] <DBO> all I did was make it use the compiz display
[07:09] <DBO> yes I imagine it must be somehow in response to what compiz is doing when processing events
[07:09] <RAOF> Yeah.
[07:11] <DBO> okay I know I am just kinda throwing random shit out there right now
[07:11] <DBO> but lets assume for the moment that the issue is some X call compiz is making somewhere
[07:11] <DBO> the most logical thing to do is to slim down compiz *as much as possible*
[07:11] <DBO> so disable every plugin you can but still have unity running
[07:11] <DBO> then see if it still happens
[07:12] <DBO> you probably already did that
[07:12] <RAOF> Actually, I didn't.
[07:12] <RAOF> Because it crashes each time I want to disable a plugin :)
[07:13] <DBO> yes, start metacity
[07:13] <DBO> THEN do the plugin juggle
[07:13] <DBO> then restart compiz
[07:14] <DBO> RAOF, okay if I dont go to bed now i am going to be murdered by a small blonde woman
[07:15] <RAOF> DBO: Go to your mistress!  I can hold the fort here :)
[07:15] <DBO> while this would indeed be a net win for the world, it would be a decided net loss for me
[07:30] <oSoMoN> good morning
[08:01] <RAOF> Whaaargfl.  You think you have identified some interesting behaviour, but then when you look it's gone away!
[08:05] <MacSlow> greetings everybody
[08:11] <didrocks> good morning
[11:29] <ssn> hi guys. in my natty installation, my laptops touchpad is mistaken for a touchscreen (absolute vs relative). how do i change this and how do i report this bug?
[12:59] <danyR> njpatel: hi. I've a question: does unity update launcher's icons on-the-fly (i.e., if there have been changes on the desktop file)?
[12:59] <njpatel> No, I don't believe that works this cycle
[13:06] <danyR> njpatel: ah, bummer. otherwise it would be really easy to create a little neat weather-checking application.
[13:07] <njpatel> heh, indeed
[13:08] <njpatel> danyR, it's probably a good feature to have if your interested in working on it
[13:08] <njpatel> GFileMonitor makes it easier than you'd think it would be
[14:05] <om26er> njpatel, Hi! do you think bug 722178 is bitesizeable? for your convenience see https://launchpadlibrarian.net/64772865/Screenshot.png the window title is being cut by the invisible systray, as the problem does not happen when skype is running.
[14:05] <njpatel> om26er, yeah, bitesizable
[14:06] <om26er> thx
[14:06] <vish> njpatel , om26er: isnt that by design?
[14:06] <vish> or should that be even closer to the indicator?
[14:06] <om26er> vish, hmm no it is supposed to fade at the very end
[14:06] <njpatel> I don't think the extra space is by design
[14:06] <vish> ah!
[14:42] <kenvandine> ted, what's in your queue for releases today?
[14:44] <tedg_> kenvandine, Still building that list, but for sure indicator-application, dbusmenu and indicator-datetime.
[14:44] <tedg_> kenvandine, I think that there's a indicator-appmenu patch as well.
[14:45] <tedg_> kenvandine, Lots of little fixes all over the place.
[14:45] <seb128> indicator-session has a g_error turning to g_warning, appmenu-gtk for the desktop menu race
[15:19] <om26er> good morning lamalex
[15:19] <lamalex> hey om26er
[15:19] <lamalex> how's it going
[15:19] <om26er> everything's great
[15:21] <om26er> lamalex, there are a lot of bugs like bug 752157 for AMD open-source driver, is it under someone's radar?
[15:21] <om26er> for ref https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/752157/+attachment/1986199/+files/corruption.png
[15:21] <om26er> this white corruption have been there from the inception of compiz unity iirc
[15:27] <lamalex> om26er, i usually assign jaytaoko
[16:02] <kim0> After 2 days of usage, Xorg is constantly taking ~25% cpu .. Everything feels slower (switching windows, gnome-terminal tabs, thunderbird messages...etc) .. Does this qualify as a bug of unity?
[16:38] <BigWhale> Greetings
[16:38] <BigWhale> when I install an application manually to /opt/foo or whatever, how do I make it appear in Application lens?
[16:41] <BigWhale> there used to be menu editor... (which I noticed is still present, but has no effect...)
[17:10] <kim0> BigWhale: wild guess .. would creating a .desktop file for it help
[17:14] <kim0> woah! unity --reset   really helps
[17:56] <BigWhale> kim0, probably, but where to put it?
[18:03] <Matso> Hi i relly like the new ui. the only thing i dont like about unity is where you have put the launcher. it would be way better if you would have made it like docky.  best regards
[18:07] <Mikoar> I enabled magic lamp effect for minimizing in Unity, but it doesn't work.
[18:07] <Mikoar> Please help
[18:07] <Mikoar> Other effects do work however
[18:08] <Mikoar> like shadows for windows
[18:45] <BigWhale> A question! How do I run something from Applications as root? AMD Control Center in this particular case.
[18:46] <vish> BigWhale: gksudo before the application command
[18:46] <vish> so it would be $ gksudo AMDWHATEVER
[18:46] <BigWhale> Uhm... Not from the terminal. I know how to do that... :)
[18:47] <BigWhale> I was thinking more of a CTRL+SHIFT+CLICK on the icon
[18:47] <vish> BigWhale: edit the launcher properties :D
[18:47]  * BigWhale sighs.
[18:47] <BigWhale> I though so
[18:47] <BigWhale> I'll go file a feature request
[18:48] <vish> BigWhale: in Unity?
[18:48] <BigWhale> yes
[18:48] <vish> BigWhale: it would be more of a bug in AMD Control Center, because it does not run as root
[18:48] <vish> not a bug in Unity
[18:49] <BigWhale> Uhm
[18:49] <BigWhale> what if I want to run nautilus as root?
[18:49] <vish> not something that is advisable unless you know what you are doing ;)
[18:50] <BigWhale> Yes, I know that.
[18:50] <vish> ie: should not be as easy as just ctrl+shift+click
[18:50] <vish>  making such things easy is a recipe for disaster
[18:51] <BigWhale> If there's a popup that tells you "YOU'RE GOING TO HELL ... etc etc" I see no reason why not ...
[18:52] <vish> yea, a popup like that would be awesome.
[18:54] <BigWhale> It really is annoying sometimes that you HAVE to open terminal or fumble around with ALT-F2 and gksudo especially if you don't know the command name :)
[18:54] <vish> mpt: not fair! you dint file this bug! » http://twitter.com/#!/mptbugs/status/58580035749167104  /me unfollows
[18:55] <mpt> vish, blame Launchpad, it's just syndicating http://feeds.launchpad.net/~mpt/latest-bugs.atom
[18:55] <vish> ha!
[18:57] <vish> almost always if something is wrong in Ubuntu, there will be LP to blame somewhere.. ;p
[18:57] <mpt> One of these decades, Nautilus will integrate PolicyKit for admin actions, so nobody ever wants to run Nautilus as root any more
[18:58] <BigWhale> Hmm, I wonder if this bug for dev build chromium is related to unity or not ... I can't drag tab from one window to another
[19:00] <vish> One of these decades, file-managing will become redundant and we will have no use for Nautilus ;)
[19:02] <om26er> gord, Hi! will the fix to bug 741584 (targetted for next release) also fix 752727 or both a different ?
[19:02] <om26er> bug 752727
[19:21] <htorque> loicm: hi, should your work on the ccsm plugin crasher already fix something? i'm at nux r330 and unity r1141 and still getting the crashes.
[23:15] <zniavre> http://imgur.com/5xKUz.png   there is a bug with prelight of application selected items
[23:23] <zniavre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/761201
[23:24] <zniavre> the title and details are not well describe but the screenshot is clear (sorry )
[23:36] <BigWhale> Funny, If I run an openGL game that switches to full screen AMD driver will display two big red boxes with number 1 and 2 on each of my monitors.


[16:24] <flocculant> akxwi-dave: seen the mail from someone confused about xub qa/testers?
[16:26] <akxwi-dave> hi kev,  the one from 15.37?
[16:27] <flocculant> that's the one :)
[16:27] <akxwi-dave> yup..
[16:30] <flocculant> cool
[16:32] <flocculant> recently joined testers
[16:32] <flocculant> suppose we should think about wording of qa so it's obvious
[16:33] <akxwi-dave> i had a look at that as well, and noticed same..   and I agree,,  :-)
[16:39] <flocculant> apart from anything the current description is wrong :p
[16:41] <flocculant> akxwi-dave: maybe "Moderated team allowing Xubuntu testers to become members of Xubuntu Team following regular contribution to the Xubuntu project."
[16:44] <akxwi-dave> flocculant:  how about "Moderated team allowing Xubuntu testers to be invited to become members of Xubuntu Team following regular contribution to the Xubuntu project
[16:45] <flocculant> yup works for me
[19:35] <knome> slickymaster, oh, i forgot to mention you a side-effect of something we're trying out...
[19:36] <knome> slickymaster, you might have figured it out, but
[19:36] <knome> slickymaster, we now have our docs main branch under ~xubuntu-doc - this means everybody who is on that team has push rights to the branch that is used to build our official docs


[01:25] <Sonis> hey, I got a question about @Overrides and variables
[01:25] <Sonis> I have my variable "public static Object[][] data = new Object[0][0]" in my abstract class
[01:25] <Sonis> and in the abstract class i have a method that edits the data
[01:25] <Sonis> On the extended class, I have public static Object[][] data = ... that hides another field (abstract class)
[01:25] <Sonis> does the method in the abstract class edit the extended class or not?
[01:25] <Sonis> I can't use the annotation @Override on a variable or atleast I don't know how
[09:23] <eli_> hello. nice to meet you. excuse me, I cant speak english well. sorry to bad english. but would you help me please?
[09:24] <selckin> only if you ask a real question
[09:29] <eli_> java's classpath setting is /etc/profile.  and i must execute #source /etc/profile.
[09:31] <eli_> right? but I think about my linux be not for it.
[09:34] <eli_> I made test sample file. it file is test for System.getProperty("java.class.path")
[09:45] <eli_> but it is only ".;"
[09:45] <selckin> and the problem is?
[09:49] <eli_> I did set my jar files. but can't find package in java program
[10:04] <eli_> selckin : if your condition not bad, would you help me please?
[10:05] <selckin> try explaining what you are trying todo, what it is actually doing, and what you expected it todo


[00:40] <elky> CasW: https://launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts but i don't know if it's actually active anymore
[00:41] <CasW> Thanks a lot!
[07:59] <fnordahl> I have prepared patches that cherry pick restart on configuration changes fix for rsyslog from Debian to Artful in LP 1668639.
[07:59] <fnordahl> Would anyone have a moment to review the patch?
[08:10] <mwhudson> uh what's the story with libssl1.0.2 and ubuntu?
[08:10] <mwhudson> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pyelliptic/1.5.7-1.1 is depwait now, wondering if we should revert the commit or just wait
[08:11] <mwhudson> and what the heck is going on here, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/325564633/buildlog_ubuntu-artful-amd64.paste_<IP_ADDRESS>-6ubuntu3_BUILDING.txt.gz "dpkg-genbuildinfo: error: cannot fstat file ../python-paste_<IP_ADDRESS>-6ubuntu3_all.deb: No such file or directory"
[08:38] <geser> mwhudson: "dpkg-deb: error: obsolete compression type 'bzip2'; use xz or gzip instead" and as consequence "dh_builddeb.pkgbinarymangler: dpkg-deb -Z bzip2 --build debian/python-paste .. returned exit code 2"
[08:41] <infinity> mwhudson: We seem to be 3 years behind on merging paste for some reason.
[08:41]  * infinity wonders if the reason is him.
[08:59] <infinity> mwhudson: New paste uploaded.
[09:51] <rbasak> cpaelzer: OK, caught up.
[09:51] <rbasak> Oh, wrong channel.
[10:24] <mwhudson> geser: oh i thought that thing about bzip2 was just a warning
[10:25] <mwhudson> infinity: thanks
[10:46] <mwhudson> FAIL: test_Headbanging_Median_Rate_tabular
[10:46] <mwhudson> i think this means i should go to bed
[12:42] <ricotz> mapreri, hi :), could you look into syncing rustc/cargo?
[12:42] <mapreri> hold on, writing a mail
[12:45] <LocutusOfBorg> ricotz, can I do it?
[12:45] <ricotz> LocutusOfBorg, I assume chrisccoulson might have a thought too
[12:46] <LocutusOfBorg>  /tmp/cargo_0.17.0.orig-vendor.tar.gz has size 6526779 instead of expected 5023852
[12:46] <LocutusOfBorg> bad people out there, sigh
[12:46] <ricotz> chrisccoulson, I guess eventually firefox will require 1.17
[12:47] <mapreri> cargo can't be synced
[12:47] <mapreri> afaik
[12:47] <ricotz> mapreri, maybe, but cargo should be sufficient for rustc 1.17 already anyway
[12:48] <mapreri> it embeds a libgit2 that doko very much don't want to have embedded.
[12:48] <mapreri> OTOH, probably that embedded lib can go away on the debian side now
[12:48] <ricotz> ah I see
[12:49] <mapreri> [02:48:51 PM] <mapreri> infinity0: can cargo stop embedding libgit2 now?
[12:49] <mapreri> [02:49:02 PM] <infinity0> yeah i'll do that tomorrow hopefully
[12:49] <mapreri> rustc should be free to go, so syncing that.
[12:50] <ricotz> when was that?
[12:50] <ricotz> thanks!
[12:50] <mapreri> right now :)
[12:50] <ricotz> good :)
[12:51] <LocutusOfBorg> please don't use rustc 1.18
[12:51] <LocutusOfBorg> and forward that to debian folks
[12:52] <LocutusOfBorg> You are receiving this email because I have you listed as a downstream Rust packager.
[12:52] <LocutusOfBorg> There is a bug in Rust 1.18 that prevents bootstrapping from a local toolchain, and it has affected multiple packagers:
[12:52] <LocutusOfBorg> https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/42543
[12:52] <LocutusOfBorg> Fix is in progress. Sorry for the delayed response. If you want to discuss, please do so on the linked issue.
[12:52] <mapreri> well, this is 1.17
[12:53] <mapreri> LocutusOfBorg: please talk about that with the debian folks :)
[12:54] <LocutusOfBorg> mapreri, done a few seconds ago
[12:54] <LocutusOfBorg> but I would like to avoid somebody "hey lets do 1.18 in Ubuntu as delta"
[12:56] <mapreri> ricotz: you asked for it, and I forgot to check…  are you aware it ftbfs on ppc64el?
[12:58] <ricotz> mapreri, haven't check for ftbfs, just want to draw some attention to get it updated
[12:59] <ricotz> mozilla kind of requires 1.17 it already
[12:59] <mapreri> well, infinity0 seems aware, the last upload was a debugging one
[12:59] <mapreri> I suppose he would appreciate help trying to fix it :P
[12:59] <ricotz> ok
[13:32] <zyga> jdstrand: hey
[13:33] <zyga> jdstrand: cannot unmount preserved mount namespace file /run/snapd/ns/snapd-hacker-toolbelt.mnt: Permission denied
[13:33] <zyga> jdstrand: cze 26 14:33:03 fyke kernel: audit: type=1400 audit(1498483983.583:116): apparmor="DENIED" operation="umount" profile="/usr/lib/snapd/snap-confine" name="/" pid=6500 comm="snap-confine"
[13:33] <zyga> jdstrand: note the name that makes no sense and mismatches what was attempted
[13:33] <zyga> jdstrand: this is after hopping into a namespace and then hopping out of it (via setns)
[13:33] <zyga> jdstrand: I think this confuses apparmor
[13:34] <zyga> CC jjohansen ^
[13:48] <jdstrand> zyga: if this is after a pivot_root, I think that is correct. but, yes, jjohansen would be the person to talk to
[14:25] <smoser> sil2100, around ?
[14:26] <smoser> i guess you had pinged me with regard to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/curtin/+bug/1697545
[14:26] <smoser> the change in debian/new-upstream-snapshot does not at all affect the running code and should not block its acceptance into xenial.
[14:27] <smoser> (i'm guessing thats why you didn't accept xenial when you did accept yakkety)
[14:31] <cpaelzer> I face two launchpad git based build recipes - one works and the other one asks me for user on https://git.launchpad.net
[14:31] <cjwatson> did you try to use a private repository?
[14:31] <cpaelzer> cjwatson: no all public on my lp user
[14:31] <cjwatson> links please
[14:32] <sil2100> smoser: hey! Thanks for the info, I think there was some other reason for that, need to remember now what that is!
[14:32] <cpaelzer> cjwatson: working http://paste.ubuntu.com/24956449/ failing http://paste.ubuntu.com/24956448/
[14:32] <sil2100> smoser: since I was pretty sure I did accept it
[14:32] <cpaelzer> I beg your pardon this is my first recipe, so it might suffer from all baby steps you can do
[14:32] <sil2100> Let me do a quick re-review
[14:34] <cjwatson> cpaelzer: https://git.launchpad.net/~paelzer/libvirt/+git/libvirt-daily either doesn't exist or is private
[14:34] <smoser> sil2100, fwiw, the delta from -updates to the uploaded version should be identical for yakkety and xenial
[14:34] <cjwatson> cpaelzer: looks like you put it in https://code.launchpad.net/~paelzer/qemu/+git/libvirt-daily by mistake
[14:34] <sil2100> hm, why didn't this get approved, it seems all fine
[14:34] <cjwatson> cpaelzer: so "change details" there and move it to the right project?
[14:35] <cjwatson> cpaelzer: (and change any local clones to have the correct remote)
[14:35] <cpaelzer> cjwatson: thanks will look into that repo confusion
[14:36] <smoser> sil2100, all i know is you had asked me a question about the new-upstream-snapshot.  i'mi sorry. i was on holiday last week, so i'm a bit behind.
[14:36] <smoser> away
[14:36] <sil2100> smoser: approved now, sorry about this - I either forgot to press the final button or something, I really don't remember considering this new-upstream-snapshot being a blocker
[14:37] <smoser> sil2100, thanks!
[14:41] <cpaelzer> cjwatson: of course that was it - thanks, now I'm in the land of build errors that I expected I have to fix
[14:49] <cjwatson> np
[15:23] <rbasak> xnox: if you're working on it, can you assign yourself and set to In Progress bug 1700373 please?
[15:24] <bdmurray> pitti: Why was 1000000 chosen as a number here for a core file to be expected? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~apport-hackers/apport/trunk/view/head:/test/test_signal_crashes.py#L18
[15:25] <bdmurray> pitti: I ask as it doesn't seem to be working - ERROR: apport (pid 12199) Mon Jun 26 08:22:55 2017: aborting core dump writing, size exceeds current limit 1000000
[15:30] <bdmurray> pitti: or rather the core file created is greater than 1000000 bytes.
[17:06] <ricotz> LocutusOfBorg, mapreri, while there is a delta for cargo already is it possible to update it to 1.18.0?
[17:23] <jjohansen> zyga, jdstrand: it may appear that way, but apparmor is not confused. You are seeing artifacts of how the vfs handles these. If the file was opened inside of one namespace, and you switch to another, that file is disconnected
[17:24] <jjohansen> so a file opened in the "child" namespace is disconnected when returning to the original ns
[17:33] <jdstrand> and then attach_disconnected put it at '
[17:33] <jdstrand> at '/'
[17:49] <sarnold> which is why attach_disconnected is so frustratingly terrible
[18:37] <gpiccoli> hi folks, sorry to bother. Anybody here can point me a Git repo for Ubuntu systemd?
[18:38] <gpiccoli> I'd like to know if there's a repo somewhat equivalent of Ubuntu's kernel gits
[18:38] <sarnold> nacc: do you have systemd in you track-all-the-things git repos?
[18:38] <gpiccoli> Thanks in advance
[18:38] <gpiccoli> track-all-the-things...seems nifty =O
[18:43] <nacc> sarnold: https://code.launchpad.net/~usd-import-team/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+git/systemd
[18:44] <sarnold> nacc: wow the branches so many branches :)
[18:44] <nacc> sarnold: yeah :)
[18:45] <nacc> sarnold: one for every release+pocket * 2 for patches-applied and patches-unapplied
[18:45] <gpiccoli> tnx sarnold and nacc
[18:45] <nacc> sarnold: with some extras for the importer itself (importer/) and then the 'always latest' ubuntu/devel
[18:45] <nacc> gpiccoli: to be clear, this is more like a mirror of the archive than it is where active development necessarily occurs
[18:46] <nacc> gpiccoli: it can be the latter, but no one is obligated to use it as such
[18:46] <nacc> gpiccoli: it reflects exactly what is uploaded for each upload, and provides history
[18:46] <gpiccoli> yes, that's exactly what I need naac
[18:46] <nacc> gpiccoli: cool
[18:46] <gpiccoli> Will check if some patches aren't applied yet, to request backport
[18:48] <nacc> gpiccoli: since systemd is a native package, i think every import/ and applied/ will be identical
[18:48] <gpiccoli> that's cool to hear
[18:48] <gpiccoli> tnx
[18:51] <nacc> gpiccoli: i would run `quilt push -a` to be sure, though :) ... and if something looks off, please file a bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/usd-importer)
[18:52] <gpiccoli> ok, thanks a lot nacc! =D
[18:52] <nacc> gpiccoli: yw
[18:54] <gpiccoli> nacc, sorryto annoy more, but I'm having trouble to figure which systemd commits were applied from the repo
[18:54] <gpiccoli> is it a "meta-repo", that deals with histories and lists of patch applied, instead of the patches themselves?
[18:55] <gpiccoli> I'd like to check if a patch is on systemd 229
[19:07] <nacc> gpiccoli: right, it's just reflecting hte source packages as uploaded
[19:07] <nacc> gpiccoli: let me look in detail on this one
[19:08] <gpiccoli> ok naac, thanks and sorry for the annoyance
[19:10] <nacc> gpiccoli: which specific systemd pkg version? and which patch?
[19:13] <gpiccoli> systemd 229, from Xenial naac. Let me paste the patch info here
[19:13] <nacc> gpiccoli: systemd is at 229-4ubuntu4, 4ubuntu10 or 4ubuntu17 depending on the pocket
[19:13] <nacc> (release, security, updates respectively)
[19:14] <gpiccoli> hmm...what are the differences nacc?
[19:15] <gpiccoli> my version is the 17
[19:15] <gpiccoli> 229-ubuntu17
[19:15] <gpiccoli> There are 3 commits I'm interested in: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/commit/427a28e
[19:15] <gpiccoli> a5110c9
[19:15] <gpiccoli> b4c6f71
[19:15] <gpiccoli> the 3 are related to nvme devs
[19:16] <nacc> gpiccoli: e.g., you can do `git diff import/229-4ubuntu4 import/229-4ubuntu10` in your systemd repo clone to see the differences
[19:18] <nacc> gpiccoli: so to see if they are in the 'latest' xenila, you can do `git checkout <remote name (origin)>/ubuntu/xenial-devel`
[19:18] <gpiccoli> ok, thanks nacc
[19:18] <nacc> gpiccoli: and then do `quilt push -a` to push all the quilt patches
[19:19] <gpiccoli> but for example, in Ubuntu kernel repo, I can check the commits backported to Ubuntu kernel
[19:19] <gpiccoli> In 4.4.0-73, if I want. So, I can say if something need to go in or not...is there a quick way to do it for systemd?
[19:21] <nacc> gpiccoli: look at the source to see if the patches are applied?
[19:24] <gpiccoli> yes, this is the hard way nacc hehehe
[19:24] <gpiccoli> I'll take it, tnx
[19:24] <gpiccoli> Git are easier in general...
[19:24] <gpiccoli> *Gits
[19:24] <nacc> gpiccoli: it would appear the first two are present, but not he third
[19:25] <gpiccoli> that's really great nacc, thanks a lot
[19:25] <gpiccoli> So I might request the backport for https://github.com/systemd/systemd/commit/b4c6f71
[22:36] <sarnold> bdmurray: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/325392048/term.log  "debconf: DbDriver "config": /var/cache/debconf/config.dat is locked by another process: Resource temporarily unavailable" *2 when trying to install openssl packages
[22:39] <bdmurray> sarnold: what bug number is that related to?
[22:40] <sarnold> bdmurray: 1692981
[22:41] <bdmurray> sarnold: Hmm, I meant which bug is that attachment from?
[22:43] <sarnold> bdmurray: the "openssl breaks updates forever" one
[22:48] <bdmurray> sarnold: right but the term.log file you linked to is from which bug number? Its not clear from the librarian url.
[22:50] <sarnold> bdmurray: ah. I duped all the openssl bugs to 1692981. I don't know how to get to just alister's version of the bug.
[22:51] <sarnold> bdmurray: oh hey the advanced search has a button to show dupes :) alister's bug is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssl/+bug/1697801


[06:59] <Kilos> morning all and sundry
[06:59] <Kilos> superfly you became the sundry now
[07:00] <Kilos> why arent you sleeping
[07:18] <paddatrapper> Morning Kilos
[07:21] <Kilos> hi paddatrapper
[07:21] <paddatrapper> Seems everyone is still sleeping
[07:21] <Kilos> yeah
[08:14] <magespawn> good morning
[08:47] <Kilos> hi  magespawn
[13:24] <magespawn> cheers all have a good christmas.
[14:26] <Kilos> looks like fly hasnt got workingthe afk goodie
[14:26] <Kilos> ai!
[14:27] <Kilos> looks like fly hasnt got the afk goodie working
[14:27] <Kilos> touchpad refuses to die
[14:27] <Kilos> ai!
[15:15] <superfly> No, my Quassel on my phone has not disconnected
[17:03] <nsnzero> evening all
[17:31] <superfly> morning nsnzero
[17:31] <superfly> nsnzero: I see you got your cloak sorted out, good job!
[17:32] <superfly> hi paddatrapper
[17:38] <paddatrapper> Hey superfly
[17:38] <superfly> hi Kilos
[17:39] <superfly> paddatrapper: got my mac connected to the TV -_- temporary measure until I can find a monitor
[17:39] <nsnzero> hi guys
[17:39] <paddatrapper> superfly: good luck downsizing!
[17:39] <paddatrapper> Hey nsnzero
[17:40] <nsnzero> hope everyone is well enjoying xmas eve
[17:40] <superfly> paddatrapper: oh, also, we have a BluRay player which needs a network connection, so I used Ethernet-over-powerline to connect it to the router :-D
[17:41] <nsnzero> morning superfly - thanks but i couldnt tell if it was cloaked as whois still shows my host
[17:41] <paddatrapper> superfly: ah cool. How are those things?
[17:41] <superfly> paddatrapper: big TV, bad picture
[17:41] <nsnzero> hi paddatrapper
[17:41] <superfly> paddatrapper: sooooo awesome. just plugged it into the wall, pressed a button, and good to go!
[17:41] <paddatrapper> Ah damn, lol
[17:42] <paddatrapper> superfly: that's really impressive!
[17:42] <superfly> paddatrapper: enjoying your monitor?
[17:42] <Kilos> hi superfly paddatrapper nsnzero inetpro and others
[17:42] <nsnzero> hi there Kilos
[17:43] <paddatrapper> superfly: Oh yes! So nice having a decently sized monitor on my desk
[17:44] <Kilos> nsnzero you show as cloaked here
[17:44] <nsnzero> i am hidden
[17:44] <Kilos> yes
[17:44] <superfly> mischief managed!
[17:44] <nsnzero> hahaha
[17:45] <Kilos> where there is a will there is a way
[17:45] <Kilos> well done superfly
[17:45] <paddatrapper> 'n boer maak 'n plan
[17:45] <Kilos> nsnzero you always see your own ip
[17:45] <Kilos> unless you have an ubuntu cloak then you dont
[17:45] <nsnzero> Kilos: i didnt know that
[17:46] <Kilos> thats what freenode staff told me
[17:46] <superfly> I exchanged my ubuntu cloak for my own project's cloak :-)
[17:46] <Kilos> some years ago
[17:46] <Kilos> yes i saw that superfly
[17:46]  * superfly twirls
[17:47] <superfly> doesn't it look pretty?
[17:47] <superfly> :-P
[17:47] <Kilos> hehe
[17:47] <Kilos> openlp
[17:47] <superfly> OK, I need to go, can't sit in front of the PC all day
[17:47] <Kilos> go well and have a good day
[17:47] <nsnzero> take care superfly
[17:47] <Kilos> and say hi to the family
[17:48] <Kilos> and both of you need to work on new years resolutions that can last superfly
[17:49] <superfly> hah! I stopped that years ago
[17:49] <Kilos> i have the same one every year
[17:49] <superfly> I'm terrible at them
[17:49] <Kilos> be here as much as possible
[17:49] <Kilos> get an easy one man
[17:49] <Kilos> like make sure to breathe regularly
[17:50] <nsnzero> lol Kilos - why even make a resolutiom - just resolve to have none and be and do good
[17:50]  * paddatrapper will work on iterum during the next year
[17:51] <Kilos> i always do and be good, thats a bad habit
[17:51] <Kilos> bad peeps have more fun
[17:51] <Kilos> how is it going paddatrapper
[17:51] <Kilos> still long way to go?
[17:52] <paddatrapper> Kilos: won't manage to get it into Debian before the freeze (no Internet has seriously handicapped me). But should be in unstable (and Ubuntu Zesty) be end of Jan
[17:53] <Kilos> oh my
[17:53] <Kilos> wonderful
[17:53] <Kilos> took a while but im happy to see that the old ibid isnt totally dead and abandoned
[17:54] <Kilos> just reborn
[17:54] <paddatrapper> I only have one test that is failing and a copyright file to sort out
[17:54] <nsnzero> whats that guys ?
[17:54] <paddatrapper> Kilos: that is the meaning of the name :)
[17:54] <Kilos> which name
[17:54] <Kilos> iterum
[17:54] <Kilos> rebirth or something
[17:55] <paddatrapper> Kilos: iterum is Latin for reborn
[17:55] <Kilos> Maaz define iterum
[17:55] <Maaz> Kilos: I don't have a definition for that. Is it even a word?
[17:55] <Kilos> bot dont know latin
[17:55] <Maaz> Kilos: *blink*
[17:55] <paddatrapper> nsnzero: iterum is a fork of ibid which is the software behind Maaz
[17:55] <Kilos> inetpro add a latin dictionary to maaz man
[17:56] <nsnzero> ha the egg drop bot - did some reading on them
[17:58] <Kilos> Maaz coffee on
[17:58]  * Maaz washes some mugs
[17:59] <Kilos> Maaz coffee for all
[17:59] <Maaz> Come on ya buncha geeks. Rock up with your mugs with the correct amount of sugar added already. Just type in Maaz coffee please
[17:59] <nsnzero> Maaz coffee please
[17:59] <Maaz> nsnzero: Yessir
[17:59] <nsnzero> lol
[17:59] <Kilos> Maaz large
[17:59] <Maaz> In a beer mug just for you Kilos
[17:59] <nsnzero> thanks Maaz
[18:00] <Kilos> when you talk to the bot you need to use his nick at the start of your post
[18:00] <Kilos> Maaz with cremora
[18:00] <Maaz> Ah! At last someone with taste
[18:00] <Kilos> Maaz and milk
[18:00] <Maaz> Now you're talking
[18:01] <paddatrapper> Lol
[18:01] <Kilos> he knows so much but i have forgotten half
[18:01] <Kilos> Maaz rusks please
[18:01] <Maaz> behind the calender on top of the fridge, but dont tell everyone Kilos
[18:02] <nsnzero> thats a lot of programing - or is it a learning bot ?
[18:02] <Kilos> he learns
[18:02] <Kilos> well he gets told what to answer to what question
[18:02] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos and nsnzero!
[18:02] <Kilos> he does our monthly meetings as well
[18:03] <Kilos> Maaz cracias amigo
[18:03] <Maaz> Kilos: Sorry...
[18:03] <Kilos> oh my
[18:03] <Kilos> Maaz gracias amigo
[18:03] <Maaz> ¡de nada compadre
[18:04] <nsnzero> k he performs a lookup to a database - great to know that
[18:08] <nsnzero> how do i get maaz's word list
[18:09] <Kilos> just type maa tab
[18:10] <paddatrapper> Maaz: help
[18:10] <Maaz> paddatrapper: I can help you with: looking things up, remembering things, delivering messages, decisions, games, monitoring things, browsing the internet, conversions, silly fun stuff, calculations, system administration, software development and south african stuff.
[18:10] <Maaz> Ask me "help me with ..." for more details.
[18:10] <paddatrapper> nsnzero: ^^
[18:11] <nsnzero> thanks
[18:12] <nsnzero> he is mu h more comprehensive than the ibid bot - looking at the code now
[18:12] <nsnzero> *much
[18:13] <Kilos> he was written by our guys before they were stolen by silicon valley
[18:14] <nsnzero> reminds me of those text based game ... good memories
[18:14] <Kilos> total za bot
[18:14] <nsnzero> i can see the afrikaans references in it
[18:14] <Kilos> aw the new guy is gone
[18:15] <nsnzero> who Kilos ?
[18:15] <Kilos> time todock
[18:15] <Kilos> time2dock
[18:16] <Kilos> something like that
[18:16] <Kilos> Maaz see time2dock
[18:16] <Maaz> Kilos: *blink*
[18:16] <Kilos> Maaz seen time2dock
[18:16] <Maaz> Kilos: time2dock was last seen 1 day, 23 hours, 14 minutes and 54 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2016-12-22 21:01:32 SAST], and has been offline on freenode since 2016-12-23 01:46:29 SAST
[18:16] <nsnzero> not many chatterboxes here except me
[18:16] <Kilos> i was worse till i got old
[18:18] <nsnzero> you should have more time to chat now ...
[18:18] <kulelu88> nobody really speaks here at all
[18:18] <nsnzero> hi kulelu88
[18:18] <kulelu88> howzit guys
[18:18] <Kilos> hi kulelu88
[18:19] <Kilos> i nget tired too much nsnzero then go rest
[18:19] <nsnzero> kulelu88: how you doing with the html/css scripts ?
[18:20] <kulelu88> nsnzero: not too bad, your help fixed the view of the items, now I just need to space them out a bit better
[18:21] <kulelu88> im actually working on another part of it though
[18:21] <nsnzero> i used kate from kde which highlights and marks blocks for easy reading
[18:26] <nsnzero> looking for a nice python 3 repository if anyone knows
[18:27] <kulelu88> what type of repo?
[18:28] <nsnzero> script for me to read kulelu88
[18:28] <nsnzero> i like learning from examples
[18:29] <kulelu88> classes or imperative?
[18:29] <nsnzero> there are many python scripts out there but the majority is python 2.x
[18:29] <nsnzero> anything as long as it python 3
[18:34] <kulelu88> do you have a project in mind?
[18:36] <nsnzero> nothing - thats why i search for inspiration
[18:37] <kulelu88> would you like me to give you a challenge?
[18:37] <nsnzero> sure
[18:37] <kulelu88> give me a few minutes to think of 1
[18:38] <nsnzero> no problem - i keep switching between electronics and programming
[18:44] <nsnzero> brb switching networks
[18:56] <nsnzero> Maaz help
[18:56] <Maaz> nsnzero: I can help you with: looking things up, remembering things, delivering messages, decisions, games, monitoring things, browsing the internet, conversions, silly fun stuff, calculations, system administration, software development and south african stuff.
[18:56] <Maaz> Ask me "help me with ..." for more details.
[18:56] <nsnzero> Maaz games
[18:56] <Maaz> nsnzero: Huh?
[18:56] <Kilos> Maaz help me with games
[18:56] <Maaz> Kilos: I use the following features for games: duel and werewolf
[18:56] <Maaz> Ask me "how do I use ..." for more details.
[18:57] <nsnzero> lol - thanks Kilos
[18:57] <Kilos> ok
[18:57] <Kilos> you can pm the bot then it doesnt spam here
[18:57] <Kilos> there is a lot it can do
[18:58] <nsnzero> thats what i was thinking - taking maaz private - lol
[18:59] <Kilos> somewhere online there was lots about teaching it and stuff
[18:59] <Kilos> paddatrapper will know where
[18:59] <Kilos> most likely github stuff
[19:01] <kulelu88> nsnzero: try this program. You enter a random number and the program must calculate how many unique primes exist from 0 to that number
[19:01] <paddatrapper> Docs are at http://docs.iterum.io/
[19:01] <Kilos> Maaz ibid.docs http://docs.iterum.io/
[19:01] <Maaz> Kilos: Excuse me?
[19:01] <paddatrapper> nsnzero: Maaz is still ibid. Iterum still hasn't had a release yet
[19:02] <Kilos> ai!
[19:02] <Kilos> Maaz ibid.docs is http://docs.iterum.io/
[19:02] <Maaz> Kilos: I'll remember that
[19:02] <paddatrapper> The most comprehensive list of plugin is on launchpad in the trunk under iterum/plugins
[19:03] <nsnzero> i see paddatrapper
[19:04] <nsnzero> working on it kulelu88
[19:04] <Kilos> so paddatrapper has the fly decided yet whether we are going to try get maaz upgraded or get iterum here under a new nick
[19:04] <paddatrapper> Kilos: dunno.
[19:05] <Kilos> well have to ask the crash kid nicely
[19:05] <Kilos> and the weed
[19:05] <Kilos> oh tumbleweed hope all good there. have you seen the progress on iterum
[19:06] <paddatrapper> Maaz: iterum code is https://launchpad.net/iterum/
[19:06] <Maaz> paddatrapper: If you say so
[19:18] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[19:20] <tumbleweed> paddatrapper: hrm, you needn't have forked
[19:23] <nsnzero> kulelu88: done - tested to 100 output : 2,3,5,7,11,13,17,19,23,29,31,37,41,43,47,53,59,61,67,71,73,79,83,89,97
[19:23] <nsnzero> going to test to 10 k
[19:23] <nsnzero> night night kilos
[19:24] <nsnzero> kulelu88: tested 10 k output : .... 9973 last prime
[19:53] <nsnzero> Maaz tell kulelu88 : assignment completed
[19:53] <Maaz> nsnzero: Sure, I'll tell kulelu88 on freenode
[19:53] <nsnzero> good night all
[20:15] <kulelu88> Maaz: tell nsnzero great work . now he needs to test to 100K, then 1M, then he needs to improve the algorithm to go a little faster for >1+M
[20:15] <Maaz> kulelu88: Righto, I'll tell nsnzero on freenode
[20:15] <Maaz> kulelu88: By the way, nsnzero on freenode told me "tell kulelu88 : assignment completed" 21 minutes and 40 seconds ago


[04:55] <Kilos> hi nhaines  and all others
[05:21] <nhaines> HI Kilos.  :)
[05:22] <Kilos> :-)
[05:28] <Kilos> hi dpm
[05:39] <Kilos> hi dholbach
[05:46] <dholbach> hi Kilos :)
[05:46] <Kilos> :)
[05:47] <Kilos> hehe smiley day
[07:48] <czajkowski> aloha
[07:48] <Kilos> hi czajkowski
[07:53] <czajkowski> Kilos: hey there
[07:53] <czajkowski> hows things?
[07:54] <Kilos> good ty and you?
[08:00] <dpm> morning Kilos


[16:32] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: So, bad news: python3-cffi is in main, so I can't trigger a rebuild on that one. I can't even upload a fix for an SRU for that. Which means....
[16:33] <Eickmeyer[m]> @teward001: ^ python3-cffi in Groovy Main needs a no-change rebuild. It's built against the wrong cffi.
 is there a bug for it yet?
[17:53] <teward> if NOT you need to put in an SRU :P
 @Eickmeyer ^
 oh and sil agrees so ;)
 E:NOACTION without SRU
[18:13] <Eickmeyer[m]> teward: Ok, I can do.
[19:59] <RikMills> Plasma 5.21 beta is out on Thursday. Assuming test builds of it show no huge breaking bugs, I plan to put that in 21.04 archive to get as much testing coverage as possible.
[19:59] <RikMills> however, do expect bugs :P
[20:00] <RikMills> any objections, please shout
[20:04] <Tido> Hi, I just installed U-Studio, no internet connection just running the install into a partition from the USB Flash drive. At the end I received an error. Something about about unable to locate a package
[20:06] <Tido> zram-config.  Installation abort.
[20:06] <Tido> I tried again, go to the desktop,run the installer.
[20:06] <Tido> Same error.
[20:06] <Tido> So, I gave up, choose restart, remove the Flashdrive and leave the room. When I return Ubuntu Studio started as if it never showed any error :)
[20:07] <Eickmeyer[m]> Tido: Wrong room. This is for development collaboration, not support. Please go to #ubuntustudio. Thanks.
[20:08] <Tido> Thank you but I don't need support. It runs. This is an error on the installer.
[20:08] <Tido> Can I upload a picture here?
 technically you should post the picture on some other image hosting platform and then link to it
 we don't really have a direct 'upload' function because IRC
[20:10] <Tido> Thank you I just fiddle with my G-Drive
[20:11] <Tido> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XOZmKwWedWlmBMVVZtWxFy8Iu8-qfbdt/view?usp=sharing
 Eickmeyer: ^ fixable if you tack a `—force` into the command line
[20:15] <Eickmeyer[m]> @teward001: Yep, not the first time I've seen someone run into this. I completely installs but it shows that.
[20:20] <Tido> By the way, beautiful installer and desktop. Didn't dive into it by now but at first glance really nice (y)
[20:51] <Eickmeyer[m]> Tido: Thank you very much!


[23:59] <Unit193> bluesabre: According to #xubuntu, nm-applet --indicator solves the dual icon thing.


[04:27] <liuxg> does anyone know where to find all of the theme names for ubuntu phone in the QML. I know there are names like Ubuntu.Components.Themes.Ambiance, what else?
[11:54] <nik90> Elleo, hey, if I use DownloadManager{} instead of SingleDownload{}, is it still possible to show it in the indicator? If so, how?
[11:55] <nik90> I understand that "downloads" is a list of all the stuff that is going to be downloaded by the download manager. However I need a SingleDownload object to set its metaData
[12:01] <nik90> I looked at the web browser app code, at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/webbrowser-app/trunk/view/head:/src/app/Downloader.qml
[12:01] <nik90> It seems they create dynamical SingleDownload{} objects, but I don't see any place where these objects get destroyed/cleaned up.
[12:02] <nik90> I would expect they cleaned up when the download finishes
[12:02] <nik90> oSoMoN, Can you explain this if you're free ^^
[12:03] <Marin_> Is anyone here to help with snappy-ubuntu-core
[12:03] <ogra_> Marin_, try #snappy
[12:03] <Marin_> first time here thanks
[12:04] <oSoMoN> nik90, Elleo wrote that code so he’s more capacitated than me to explain it, but let me take a look anyway
[12:08] <nik90> oSoMoN, I think I have a vague idea, but I cannot form a complete picture of how the various components are connected.
[12:08] <nik90> I don't mind waiting for Elleo if you have other things to attend to.
[12:09] <Elleo> nik90: the downloads list in the DownloadManager component will contain downloads you create via SingleDownload as well
[12:10] <Elleo> nik90: it's basically a list of all downloads created by your app, regardless of how they were created
[12:10] <nik90> Elleo, true, but I need to migrate from SingleDownload to DownloadManager to handle multiple downloads in Podbird. Otherwise it will stop downloading after the very first download (while the app is backgrounded).
[12:11] <nik90> So when I use DownloadManager, I am unable to understand, how to set the metaData of individual downloads in DownloadManager
[12:11] <Elleo> nik90: you can create multiple SingleDowlnoad components dynamically
[12:11] <Elleo> nik90: they'll automatically be queued by DownloadManager for you
[12:11] <Elleo> nik90: in the order that they were created
[12:12] <nik90> Elleo, ah ok...so something like http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/webbrowser-app/trunk/view/head:/src/app/Downloader.qml
[12:12] <nik90> Elleo, and when I received the onFinished signal from the SingleDownload component, I can then destroy it?
[12:13] <Elleo> nik90: yeah, but don't listen for onFinished in SingleDownload, listen for onDownloadFinished in DownloadManager, that way it'll also support the app being closed and the download still finishing
[12:14] <Elleo> nik90: that provides you with both the path and the relevant SingleDownload component that finished
[12:15] <nik90> Elleo, ack. When I use the onDownloadFinished signal, I will need to compare the finished download ID with the list of temporary singleDownload objects to see which one it was and destroy that?
[12:15] <nik90> DownloadManager gives me the relevant SingleDownload component as well with the onfinished signal?
[12:16] <nik90> s/onfinished/ondownloadfinished
[12:16] <Elleo> nik90: yeah, it gives you "download" which a SingleDownload and "path" which is where it ended up
[12:16] <nik90> cool, thnx
[12:17] <Elleo> nik90: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/webbrowser-app/trunk/view/head:/src/app/webbrowser/DownloadHandler.qml <-- this shows what the browser does there, there are other similar signals you can listen to for paused/resumed/etc.
[12:17] <nik90> Elleo, I saw that file earlier..What does DownloadsModel refer to?
[12:17] <nik90> I don't see that as a listed property in DownloadManager
[12:18] <nik90> nvr mind, that comes from the  webbrowserapp.private 0.1 import
[12:18] <Elleo> nik90: that's just a webbrowser thing, it's basically the webbrowser's own sqlite db listing all old downloads
[12:18] <Elleo> yeah
[12:18] <nik90> I can just say download.destroy()
[12:19] <nik90> Elleo, thnx..this makes it clear.
[12:19] <Elleo> nik90: yep, also iirc you can set autoRemove on the DownloadManager and it'll get rid of them for you when finished
[12:20] <nik90> Elleo, I only see cleanDownloads property in DownloadManager which just clears up the list. I can't be sure it also cleans up the SingleDownload object
[12:21] <Elleo> nik90: yeah, I should probably do another little video explaining how SingleDownload and DownloadManager can be used together, good to have these questions asked and see where we need to improve docs
[12:21] <Elleo> nik90: ah yeah, you may be right there
[12:22] <nik90> Elleo, oh man, those videos are freaking awesome.
[12:23] <Elleo> nik90: regardless what you do it does actually automatically clean up the real internal download object, so all you're left with is a tiny SingleDownload component keeping the relevant properties in memory (id, state, error, etc.)
[12:23] <Elleo> nik90: so there's only a few kbs memory hit if a dev doesn't manually destroy the object
[12:23] <nik90> Elleo, agree
[12:24] <Elleo> nik90: thanks :) been away the past few days but going to do some more as soon as I get a free evening
[12:26] <Elleo> nik90: I had a play with the dev version of podbird before I left (haven't tried the very latest version yet), seemed really good, only two things I wasn't sure on; one was the removal of the fuzzy background image at the top of the podcast pages; it looks good without it for some podcasts, but not as good for others (e.g. where their logos don't have such well defined edges), so we might want to chat with Kevin a bit about that
[12:27] <Elleo> nik90: and I'm really not keen on losing the "Add new podcast" page, the interaction of pressing the "+" to get to a new page with identical header actions seems wierd to me
[12:27] <Elleo> nik90: plus I'm planning on expanding that page a lot
[12:27] <Elleo> nik90: so that when it's in the empty state it shows charts and recommendations from the podbird.org services
[12:28] <Elleo> nik90: which seems more natural to reach via the "Add new podcast" menu option
[12:28] <Elleo> at least to me anyway :)
[12:29] <Elleo> but overall everything seemed really great
[12:29] <Elleo> I'll give the .5 release a go this evening to see what else has changed while I was away
[12:37] <nik90> Elleo, the fuzzy background removal was part of kevin's new design spec at https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8NjAHEq9cvEY2VZb1lGczRKMVE/view. Although I have to agree that I liked the fuzzy background as well :)
[12:38] <nik90> I see your point regarding the add podcast page. I agree. The headers are too similar at the moment. I will bring that back to the old way. But I like to keep the EpisodesTab as the way it is if you like it.
[12:38] <nik90> Elleo, I think the most cool part is that we have playlists support in 0.7.5..so you should really try that out.
[12:48] <Elleo> nik90: awesome, look forward to giving that a go :)
[12:51] <Elleo> nik90: and yeah, episodes tap looks really good
[12:51] <Elleo> nik90: nice having a way to access all the downloaded episodes from all podcasts mixed together
[12:52] <Elleo> tab*
[12:53] <nik90> Elleo, I was thinking of integrating the in-progress downloads to the downloads view. This way users can cancel individual downloads, pause them if required etc. That was another thing that users reported bugs about.
[12:53] <nik90> that and the files indicator integration is my focus atm.
[12:53] <Elleo> nik90: yeah, that sounds good
[14:46] <t1mp> zsombi: so, I have a fix for the XFAIL, https://code.launchpad.net/~tpeeters/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/apl-dont-change-page-geometry/+merge/289054
[14:46] <t1mp> zsombi: current staging tests it with the old header, and your branch with the new
[14:46] <t1mp> zsombi: should we test both?
[14:47] <zsombi> t1mp: I wouldn't bother tbh...
[14:47] <zsombi> t1mp: we don't have resources to maintain both anyway
[14:47] <t1mp> zsombi: the whole error was there because we are trying to support both headers in a single APL anyway
[14:47] <zsombi> t1mp: :(
[14:48] <t1mp> zsombi: anyway, the fix turns out to be not so difficult
[14:48] <t1mp> zsombi: it broke because the updates are not in the ideal order
[14:48] <zsombi> I see
[14:48] <zsombi> t1mp: I cannto get yr MR
[14:49] <t1mp> what do you mean with "cannot get"?
[14:58] <zsombi> t1mp: this MR is agains staging... so we shoudl get this prior to the APL MR
[15:00] <t1mp> zsombi: it works independently from the APL MR
[15:01] <zsombi> t1mp: ok, let's hope CI will wake up and lat it go
[15:01] <t1mp> zsombi: I tested it with your MR too
[15:01] <zsombi> t1mp: me too :)
[15:01] <zsombi> t1mp: happroved
[15:01] <t1mp> thanks
[15:01] <zbenjamin> bzoltan_: so your script listed loads of packages... i decided to do a clean install
[15:02] <zbenjamin> bzoltan_: even kernels ...
[15:02] <bzoltan_> zbenjamin: my script?
[15:02] <zbenjamin> bzoltan_: the one that lists packages that are not from the archive?
[15:02] <bzoltan_> zbenjamin: check it if you do not believe :)
[15:03] <zbenjamin> bzoltan_: i do believe, but as i said i had a huge list of packages that came from nowhere. I guess broken or not completely removed ppa'S
[15:03] <beuno> there's an outage going on, FWIW
[15:03] <zbenjamin> bzoltan_: the system was in a very very weird state
[15:03] <bzoltan_> zbenjamin: I figured :)
[15:04] <zbenjamin> bzoltan_: clean install can not hurt from time to time ;)
[15:04] <bzoltan_> zbenjamin: yes
[15:06] <bzoltan_> zbenjamin: indeed many of the packages on a continously upgraded system fall out of the controll net
[15:07] <zbenjamin> woah, new xenial did boot up so fast!
[15:07] <balloons> rest in pieces my jenkins friend
[15:07] <balloons> ahayzen, you about?
[15:54] <nik90> Elleo, I have an issue. I was able to successfully migrate Podbird to DownloadManager. The integration went fine without breaking any existing thing. However, when I tried to batch download a group of episodes using a JS function, Podbird crashes. And now everytime I open Podbird I cannot download any episode since the internal SingleDownload{} objects still persist. Printing downloads.length shows 18 and I cannot do anything to clear it.
[15:54] <nik90> I already have cleanDownloads variable set to true.
[15:55] <nik90> I deleted the mp3 files manually, but not sure how to reset DownloadManager despite several times of reopening podbird.
[15:59] <balloons> nik90, since you are about, can I get your opinion on always running qml tests on build?
[16:00] <nik90> balloons, hi
[16:00] <nik90> sure
[16:00] <balloons> checkout https://code.launchpad.net/~nskaggs/ubuntu-clock-app/run-qml-tests-on-build/+merge/289065. This means jenkins will always run tests, but so will you on your desktop with this change
[16:00] <balloons> is this a 'good' thing, or should we make things more explicit within jenkins and run make test after?
[16:01]  * nik90 tests
[16:04] <nik90> balloons, It affects the way I run and build clock app on the phone. The tests are failing because I develop using 14.04 and run it on the phone. Since I am running on 14.04, all qml tests will fail since the sdk libs are unavailable. Also I get QXcbConnection: Could not connect to display
[16:04] <Elleo> nik90: odd, you could try killing the ubuntu-download-manager process, it'd be good if you could push the code somewhere so I can give it a try (might not get to it until tomorrow now though), sounds like something might be going wrong in download manager somewhere
[16:04] <Elleo> nik90: although I'm not sure why it isn't effecting the browser then
[16:04] <nik90> balloons, so this forces app devs to only use 16.04 or later
[16:05] <nik90> Elleo, sure, I will also provides steps to reliably reproduce it. FWIW restarting the phone fixed it.
[16:05] <Elleo> nik90: okay, thanks
[16:05] <balloons> nik90, well you could toggle it off, but I'm concerned that tests will fail, and running by default might upset people
[16:06] <balloons> but it would also ensure the tests are run when people are coding :-)
[16:06] <balloons> nik90, the build should still finish though right, even though the tests faill
[16:06] <balloons> nik90, obviously I don't want to force anyone into running new stuff
[16:07] <nik90> balloons, for me the build fails when the tests fail -> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15392814/
[16:07] <nik90> the test failures are being considered as errors rather than warnings by qtcreator
[16:08] <balloons> ok, well I have some concerns. I wish cmake made this a little easier
[16:09] <balloons> so I think I will make it explicit inside jenkins and reject this
[16:10] <nik90> balloons, Yes. I am fully aware of cmake's abilities..it could have a ignore option while printing out the errors. But I can't say for sure.
[16:10] <nik90> not fully*
[16:12] <ahayzen> balloons, what's up ?
[16:12] <balloons> I'll try doing it another way. It was more hoops and harder, but forcing it seems to make things painful, which is what I wanted to know
[16:12] <ahayzen> t1mp, is there a silo for https://code.launchpad.net/~tpeeters/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/fasterWindowColor/+merge/288661 yet?
[16:13] <balloons> ahayzen, see above with nik90. I was going to mention how I'm implementing unit testing within jenkins
[16:13] <ahayzen> balloons, ok! :-)
[16:13] <balloons> the answer is, we'll make an explicit call. That does I suppose make things a bit harder and puts things back into your court perhaps
[16:13] <balloons> it means back to playing with cmake
[16:13] <balloons> ahayzen, secondly, how's the changes coming for weather and music?
[16:14] <ahayzen> balloons, slowly, i'm coming up to coursework season :-(
[16:14] <ahayzen> half way through the last semester of uni \o/ :')
[16:14] <balloons> right, no worries. Just thought I'd ask again.
[16:15] <faenil> ahayzen: wow...keep tight! )
[16:15] <ahayzen> balloons, so i'd like to have them running each time a dev builds/runs, but as with nik90 i suspect most/all music tests would fail for me due to there being no QtMultimedia 5.6 on Wily
[16:15] <ahayzen> balloons, so probably best for just explicitly on jenkins, until we get a snappy desktop :')
[16:16] <nik90> +
[16:17] <ahayzen> balloons, can we have a build configuration for running the tests or something? so that it appears as an option in QtC ?
[16:17] <t1mp> ahayzen: no silo yet for that MR
[16:17] <t1mp> ahayzen: I wanted to have the fix for this one first https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1555797
[16:17] <balloons> ahayzen, an alternate cmake target might do that?
[16:18] <ahayzen> balloons, so then if i was running on xenial/latest release ... then i could select to use that config and run the tests while developing
[16:18] <t1mp> ahayzen: so the fasterWindowColor MR is still landing in our staging now
[16:18] <ahayzen> balloons, and then jenkins could use that build config
[16:18] <balloons> that would be ideal. I'm not positive, but I'll try
[16:18] <ahayzen> balloons, i spotted coreapps like reminders have loads of configs (or whatever they are actually called)
[16:19] <ahayzen> t1mp, ok thanks :-) i'll watch out for a silo so i can test :-)
[16:20] <t1mp> ahayzen: okay. But a silo is the last step. First we verify that everything works, then we land it to staging, then we get a silo to land it in the image (with more testing)
[16:21] <ahayzen> balloons, like this https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3XynHVKfrvMc0NlTENvdWRKZmc/view?usp=sharing you can see the different Autopilot ones and reminder ones
[16:21] <t1mp> Mirv: where could we find the tgz that has the device deb files for this MR? https://code.launchpad.net/~tpeeters/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/fasterWindowColor/+merge/288661
[16:21] <ahayzen> balloons, if there was a 'jenkins' one
[16:21] <t1mp> Mirv: ^ I got a bit lost with all the jenkins results and I cannot find the tgz any more
[16:21] <ahayzen> t1mp, i you can point me to some debs i could test as well :-)
[16:21] <balloons> ahayzen, right, got it
[16:21] <ahayzen> balloons, do you think that is the best way ?
[16:23] <nik90> Elleo, you can find the branch and steps to reproduce the bug at https://code.launchpad.net/~nik90/podbird/migrate-to-download-manager/+merge/289069
[16:24] <balloons> I think it would be the nice yes. However, jenkins first, then sdk, heh
[16:24] <ahayzen> nik90, what do you think? could a run configuration be enough ?
[16:24] <ahayzen> :-)
[16:24] <t1mp> Mirv: ah, I think I found one :)
[16:24] <t1mp> ahayzen: https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-sdk/job/ubuntu-ui-toolkit-ci-armhf-stable/502/artifact/artifacts/copy-to-phone-fasterWindowColor-1895.tar
[16:24] <ahayzen> t1mp, \o/ i'll try and have a play in a bit
[16:25] <nik90> ahayzen, yes I think that would be best. This way we can use that particular build configuration last when fixing the tests after fixing a bug/implementing a feature and not all the time.
[16:27] <ahayzen> yeah agreed
[16:27] <Mirv> t1mp: please report back too if it works alright, I recently added the new qml-module-* packages
[16:28] <Mirv> which are now needed
[16:28] <Elleo> nik90: great, thanks; will take a look at that once I've finished off this current bit of work (might not be until tomorrow)
[16:31] <nik90> Elleo, no worries, I will work on something else until then
[17:04] <ahayzen> balloons, any idea why this wasn't picked up by jenkins? https://code.launchpad.net/~vthompson/music-app/fix-1549557/+merge/288871
[19:22] <balloons> ahayzen, still about?
[19:22] <balloons> if so, time for a little jenkins lesson
[19:23] <ahayzen> balloons, o/ i'm about for a few minutes, otherwise i'm around tomorrow
[19:24] <ahayzen> balloons, maybe best tomorrow :-)
[19:27] <balloons> ahayzen, just note the red jobs on https://core-apps-jenkins.ubuntu.com/computer/
[19:27] <balloons> ahayzen, if you see things like that, it's safe to cancel them. They generate again. That's why jenkins isn't running on music
[19:27] <ahayzen> so it's got struct trying to acquire a lock
[19:28] <ahayzen> ah ok thanks :-)
[19:28] <balloons> you are welcome -- you can cancel them right?
[19:28]  * ahayzen tries
[19:29] <ahayzen> balloons, yeah i've managed to cancel the music ones \o/
[19:29] <ahayzen> can see it rerunning now
[19:29] <balloons> you can cancel them all, but ;-) Awesome, now you now
[19:29]  * ahayzen adds to his jenkins doc :-)
[19:33] <balloons> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/Jenkins#Troubleshooting now has a picture to go with #2 ;-)
[20:23] <nik90> Elleo, I figured it out :D .. well atleast have a faint idea why. There is this episode "Weekly Tech New - March 5, 2016" from the Podcast "Daily Tech News Show". That episode when you try to play/download it, causes Podbird to crash regardless of whether you use SingleDownload{} or DownloadManager{}.
[20:23] <nik90> Elleo, that said, I think in the event of an app crash, it is still important that UDM destroys its internal objects.
[20:24] <nik90> It could be that the URL is buggy. maybe not encoded correctly ..not sure
[20:30] <nik90> Elleo, more specifically (after further testing), it turns out that episode has a blank url. On creating a sample template app, I noticed that if you do downloadmanager.download(""), it causes the app to crash :P
[20:31] <nik90> that's the reason. I just need to check if the url is blank or not before sending it to download manager.


[13:22] <Pendulum> apinheiro: TheMuso: do either of you know what the status is of accessibility in Unity 2D or is that going to be a 'next cycle' issue?
[13:24] <apinheiro> Pendulum, sorry, I don't know anything about unity 2d accessibility
[13:24] <apinheiro> but i guess that it would be "bad"
[13:25] <apinheiro> as with any other qt based app
[13:28]  * Pendulum suspects she will not be able to use Ubuntu past 11.04 :-/
[13:28] <Pendulum> (unless somehow Unity 2D is made accessible in time for when they remove the Classic Gnome fallback)
[13:31] <apinheiro> Pendulum, classic gnome fallback will be removed from ubuntu?
[13:32] <Pendulum> apinheiro: yes. It's been said a couple places that with 11.10, it'll be Unity 3D and Unity 2D
[13:32] <Pendulum> (at least according to Mark)
[13:32] <apinheiro> Pendulum, ok, that was totally new to me, it seem that I missed that couple places
[13:33] <Pendulum> I don't remember if he explicitly said it on his blog post about 2D, but I've seen it mentioned on a bug and somewhere else that I can't remember
[14:19] <issyl0> That's not terribly conducive to wide use, is it?  :-/
[14:24] <charlie-tca> Pendulum: Most of the issues got magically fixed for beta2. The big issue I see yet is the search box in Unity 3D.
[14:25] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: which issues?
[14:26] <charlie-tca> Most of the things that were broken bad. I did not check orca in 3D, but unity during testing was much better than even Beta1
[14:27] <charlie-tca> I was able to run a screen-reader install, even, and orca starts at login to the classic desktop
[14:27] <charlie-tca> there was even a launcher for applications on the Launcher bar now
[14:28] <Pendulum> *nods*
[14:29] <Pendulum> that's a win :)
[14:29] <charlie-tca> um, I didn't check things in 2D :-(
[14:29] <charlie-tca> I will throw my nvidia card in and test it this weekend, if you want me to
[14:29] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: I didn't expect you too as it's not shipping on the CD this time, I don't think
[14:29] <AlanBell> I was just going to say I don't think unity2d is an available option yet
[14:29] <Pendulum> I was just trying to get a sense of where we are now and where it needs to get to by 11.10
[14:29] <Pendulum> AlanBell: I think there's a PPA
[14:30] <charlie-tca> I thought it was in the repositories
[14:30]  * charlie-tca goes hide again. better keep quiet and see where things are
[14:31] <Pendulum> heh
[16:24] <maco> charlie-tca: the search box has a patch thanks to DBO, it's just likely to be a 0-day SRU
[16:25] <Pendulum> maco: you haven't heard anything about Unity 2D a11y have you? other than the part where we know Riddell did something to help get Qt working with a11y
[16:25] <Riddell> Pendulum: there is none, it's QML which has none
[16:25] <maco> no i dont
[16:25] <maco> Riddell: what does that qt-at-spi package do?
[16:26] <Pendulum> Riddell: is this going to be fixed before we lose Classic Gnome in 11.10?
[16:26] <Riddell> maco: that does traditional Qt widgets (and it's far from complete)
[16:26] <maco> Riddell: do you have commit access to lp:unity?
[16:26] <Riddell> Pendulum: nope
[16:26] <Riddell> maco: I've no idea
[16:26] <Pendulum> so in other words a11y if you can't do 3D is going to be gone from 11.10
[16:26] <Riddell> Pendulum: unless there's a major effort by someone to bring AT to QML
[16:27] <maco> erm not what i ment
[16:27] <Pendulum> there goes my ability to use Ubuntu :(
[16:27] <maco> sorry, do you have access to *ubiquity*
[16:27] <Riddell> Pendulum: but maybe qt-at-spi will be ready then and you can come over to Kubuntu :)
[16:27] <Riddell> maco: yes
[16:27] <maco> Riddell: launchpad says yes!  can you do a merge for me?
[16:28] <Riddell> maco: I can if it's appropriate for post beta
[16:28] <Pendulum> Riddell: tbh, I will stop using any *buntu in protest and be loud about it if that's really what happens
[16:28] <maco> Riddell: https://code.launchpad.net/~maco.m/ubiquity/bug749653/+merge/57772
[16:28] <maco> Riddell: makes ubiquity more accessible. changes functionality for able-bodied people not at all
[16:28] <maco> (i put cjwatson because luke suggested colin or ev, but if you're here...)
[16:30] <Riddell> Pendulum: so in protest at Kubuntu getting AT you'd stop using any ubuntu? :(
[16:30] <maco> in protest to ubuntu-desktop team being ...having their anteriors rerouted to their posteriors
[16:30] <maco> or to the project leadership having that routing
[16:30] <charlie-tca> Isn't that a step the wrong way if Kubuntu gets accessibility at the cost of Ubuntu losing it?
[16:30] <maco> since...there are people who can set priorities, and this is apparently not one of them for the overarching ubuntu project
[16:31] <Pendulum> Riddell: maco's got it
[16:31] <Pendulum> so, which mailing list should I be raising this on?
[16:31] <maco> ubuntu-devel
[16:31] <maco> or hmm
[16:31] <maco> ayatana
[16:31] <Riddell> maco: you seem to be merging in merge conflicts there
[16:32] <maco> 11.10 discussion is starting on -devel
[16:32] <maco> Riddell: i think its just that my branch is a week old and colin's done a release since then
[16:32] <Riddell> maco: I'm not sure I understand what all that atk stuff does, can you explain it?
[16:33] <maco> Riddell: for each radio button and label, im requesting an accessible version (get_accessible()) then setting relationships between them:   label labels radio button,  radio button is labeled by label
[16:33] <maco> this way when the radio button is given focus by tabbing, it speaks the label
[16:35] <Riddell> maco: don't radio buttons already have their label as part of their widgets?
[16:35] <maco> Riddell: welcome to gtk
[16:37] <maco> do you want me to rearrange the debian/changelog for colin having done a release?
[16:38] <Riddell> maco: no I can do that easily enough
[16:44] <maco> for future reference, i have a bzr question.... is it possible to change a commit message? like say if you typed the wrong commit message in the wrong window, or used -m inappropriately...?
[16:53] <maco> i wonder if this patch is still valid https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/550717
[16:53] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 550717 in ubiquity "[Lucid] two accessiblity related bug with Ubiquity, with easy to fix" [High,Triaged]
[16:53] <maco> charlie-tca, AlanBell did you say orca stopped reading for you the other day?
[16:54] <AlanBell> it worked for me, I think that was charlie-tca
[16:54] <Riddell> maco: merged!
[16:54] <charlie-tca> yes
[16:54] <Riddell> maco: but you should bzr update before doing a merge proposal to stop conflicts
[16:54] <charlie-tca> maco: when I clicked the mouse on the network applet, and when I clicked on an apport window
[16:55] <maco> Riddell: thanks
[17:20] <paul_h1> Pendulum: just catching up on history... why are you concerned about unity in the 11.10 release?
[17:20] <Pendulum> paul_h1: Unity 2D (not the same as Unity 3D which is what's in Natty) will be replacing classic gnome from everything I've been told
[17:22] <paul_h1> Pendulum: and unity 2D is being built with QML?
[17:22] <Pendulum> right
[17:32] <paul_h1> Pendulum: you'd think after building an (initially) inaccessible 3D unity then having to put a big effort into making it accessible they'd have learnt something...
[17:32] <Pendulum> paul_h1: it's because of the QML thing, I guess
[17:33] <paul_h1> Pendulum: it's because they're more concerned about making it pretty than about making sure everyone can use it :)
[17:34] <Pendulum> paul_h1: that too, but I try to be politic sometimes
[17:35] <paul_h1> Pendulum: are you raising the point anywhere?
[17:36] <Pendulum> paul_h1: I'm trying to decide the best place to raise it
[17:36] <paul_h1> Pendulum: could always try emailing Mark Shuttleworth :)
[17:38] <charlie-tca> Pendulum: not sure where to raise it. There was a user test posted on ubuntu-devel, most users could not use unity. The comments are it is great!
[17:38] <charlie-tca> The fact it i
[17:38] <charlie-tca> the fact it was unusable, is because it is new.
[17:38] <charlie-tca> If eleven of eleven can't use it, that makes it good??
[17:39] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: I loved the usre comments
[17:41] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: did you see the question about changing to classic from log in? do you know if there's a way to either make orca work before the user is logged in or where i should go poking?
[17:44] <paul_h1> Pendulum: plenty of people on the orca list have orca running on the gdm screen so it's certainly possible
[17:45] <Pendulum> paul_h1: yeah, that's what I thought. I just don't use orca so have no idea how to tell the person to set it up
[17:46] <paul_h1> Pendulum: I'll see if I can get it going :) nevewr tried before, never really had the need for orca at the gdm prompt.
[17:47] <Pendulum> paul_h1: also, don't know if it makes a difference that the person on the ubuntu-accessibility list seems to be using Natty
[18:04] <paul_h1> Pendulum: there is an accessible login page on the orca wiki. I seriously doubt anything on it would apply to natty (or even maverick) looks archaic, some of it
[18:06] <Pendulum> :-/
[18:08] <paul_h1> can the environment you boot into be selected with the keyboard? perhaps just providing instructions on how to do it would be best
[19:05] <maco> O_O 1900 bugs in ubiquity. wow
[20:06] <charlie-tca> Pendulum: the only way I know is he will need a sighted person to change it over.
[20:06] <charlie-tca> maco: half are mine ;-)
[20:06] <charlie-tca> Went fertilizer shopping; back now
[20:07] <maco> i wrote a not-yet-tested patch for another a11y bug in ubiquity
[20:07] <charlie-tca> Yay!
[20:07] <charlie-tca> I can test them, if you tell how to get in there.
 this is interesting ! https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/TestingDistro
 just noticed in #a11y
[20:41] <UndiFineD> Pendulum, AlanBell, hajour ^^
[20:41] <hajour> hi all
[20:42] <j1mc> charlie-tca: fertilizer shopping? :)
[20:44] <hajour> nice accessibility tools testing
[20:44] <hajour> hi j1mc  :)
[20:45] <j1mc> hi hajour
[20:45] <UndiFineD> charlie-tca is being silly, paying for horse poo
[20:45] <hajour> i not remember that i have see your name earlier
[20:45] <hajour> j1mc, ^
[20:45] <hajour> lol UndiFineD
[20:46] <j1mc> hajour: i am new here. i am working on ubuntu-docs, but ubuntu-accessibility is (in my mind) a family member of accessibility.
[20:47] <hajour> btw Pendulum  , AlanBell  and charlie-tca  and the rest. UndiFineD  and i are probably not around tomorrow we go to ubuntu local jam
[20:48] <hajour> a ok welcome j1mc
[20:48] <charlie-tca> j1mc: gotta make the grass green again
[20:48] <charlie-tca> UndiFineD, hajour : ever tried using that with Unti
[20:48] <hajour> normally i am more around in chat.but last 2/3 weeks i am struggling reading logs
[20:48] <charlie-tca> UndiFineD, hajour : ever tried using that with Unity?
[20:49] <UndiFineD> no, I just learned of it a few minutes ago
[20:49] <UndiFineD> I am not that fast
[20:49] <charlie-tca> that's why we have to write something for us to use... :-)
[20:49] <charlie-tca> It is a great resource to start at, though
[20:50] <hajour> just have seen it from the link from UndiFineD  if that is what you mean charlie-tca
[20:50] <charlie-tca> I am not sure even Gnome3 passes it now
[20:50] <charlie-tca> We have references to it on the wiki
[20:51] <hajour> UndiFineD,  have trouble with reading to  if it is a lot
[20:52] <hajour> also he have problems with reading small fonts like size 12
[20:52]  * UndiFineD prefers 14px
[20:52] <charlie-tca> It is very good material. It gives a place to start when we are trying to define tests
[20:53] <hajour> its nice it is there now thought
[20:53] <charlie-tca> Yes.
[20:54]  * hajour got fonts size 16 here in chat.it could not come bigger.but i prefer size 18
[20:54] <charlie-tca> UndiFineD: I don't think it is horse poo, more like steer :-)
[20:55] <hajour> btw i got a consult this week by office for adjust work
[20:55] <hajour> or i will go fit there
[20:55] <charlie-tca> hajour: great!
[20:55] <UndiFineD> charlie-tca, did you taste it ?
[20:55] <UndiFineD> :P
[20:55] <charlie-tca> um, no
[20:56] <charlie-tca> but I smelled it. PHew!
[20:56] <UndiFineD> hahah
[20:56] <hajour> o groose UndiFineD
[20:56] <hajour> bleh
[20:57] <hajour> watch out UndiFineD  else i give it to you for breakfast
[20:57] <charlie-tca> woo! that would be bad, too.
[20:57] <hajour> farms all around here so ... :P
[20:57] <UndiFineD> farmers here only have chocolate sauce
[20:59] <hajour> but charlie-tca  if they decide i fit there i come on the waiting list and then have to wait 4 till 7 years for its my turn.if i am lucky.it can also be 10 years
[20:59] <hajour> yak UndiFineD
[20:59] <hajour> he means cow poo
[21:00] <hajour> btw i am nagging them to help with paying to extend my passport by government
[21:01] <hajour> if i get chance on work i will really need my passport
[21:01] <hajour> also for uds btw :S
[21:02] <charlie-tca> yup
[21:02] <charlie-tca> yes
[21:03] <charlie-tca> Sooner you get on the list, the better, right?
[21:03] <hajour> o hope i not have said something  wrong here
[21:03] <hajour> yes
[21:03] <charlie-tca> We have to get away from the cow talk
[21:03] <hajour> XD
[21:04] <charlie-tca> but at least the words were clean, even if the rest is not.
[21:05] <hajour> i will go try to let them see ubuntu as official volunteer work. maybe i get then some money from government.solution .they are rid of me and i can then full time work on ubuntu
[21:05] <hajour> no i got and maybe it will become a yes
[21:06] <hajour> i can always try
[21:06] <charlie-tca> that's the way to do it.
[21:06] <charlie-tca> If you don't try, you don't know.
[21:06] <hajour> and then i not have to wait 4 till 7 years
[21:07] <hajour> yes thought so to
[21:08] <hajour> anyway i let see i want to work i think
[21:09] <hajour> and maybe if it becomes a yes that i will get some support for a more adjust pc for to work on
[22:14] <Pendulum> hajour: have fun!
[22:15] <Pendulum> UndiFineD: yeah, that's pretty brand new
[22:15] <Pendulum> (the testing distro)
[22:17] <TheMuso> Riddell: Kubuntu gettina 11y will be more than just qQT at-spi. I dare say much work will be needed on KDE before users can properly use it with screen readers etc.
[22:18]  * TheMuso groans. QML? :S
[22:20] <Pendulum> TheMuso: am I right that it makes sense to start campaigning now for Classic Desktop to be kept around as a fallback for a while?
[22:21] <TheMuso> Pendulum: I think so.
[22:21] <TheMuso> Even if qt AT-spi is completed, teh fact that a markup language is being used to design a GUI brings all kinds of yuck.
[22:21] <Pendulum> yeah
[22:22] <TheMuso> What sucks even more, is that unity 2d and 3D are different code bases, so I don't even think 2d has the good keyboard shortcuts we need.
[22:22] <paul_h1> or offer gnome-shell as an alternative? (assuming the gnome a11y team get that working properly)
[22:23] <TheMuso> GNome shell being in universe, will not be possible unless Canonical are willing to support it, which I doubt.
[22:23] <Pendulum> also isn't Gnome Shell 3D?
[22:23] <TheMuso> Yes.
[22:24] <TheMuso> Yeah I am thinking teh same as you, we need to take care of those who don't have the drivers etc installed, and lots of blind people don't use a monitor.
[22:24] <Pendulum> so will have the same problems for that as Unity 3D does
[22:24] <TheMuso> Yep.
[22:24] <Pendulum> I have to run my main machine on a VM so that I can use voice recognition on really bad days
[22:24] <paul_h1> didn't realise that, why are ui's being designed that can't function without 3d acceleration
[22:25] <TheMuso> Because the vast majority of video hardware sold in the last 5 years or so is 3D capable.
[22:25] <TheMuso> Even my old thinkpad from 2004 can run unity
[22:25] <TheMuso> Granted that is with a Radeon chip.
[22:26] <Pendulum> *nods*
[22:26] <paul_h1> but there's a growing trend towards running the same ui's on devices like smart phones and the like. surely a toolkit should utilise the capabilities of the hardware it's running on but be able to fall back if the hardware can't support everything it offers?
[22:27] <TheMuso> Yes but smart phone hardware is increasingly able to do 3D.
[22:27] <Pendulum> I was serious earlier, though, that if we get stuck with only Unity 2d & 3D and I can't use it, then I will be very vocal with why I can no longer use Ubuntu
[22:27] <TheMuso> I can understand that.
[22:28] <TheMuso> Its hard for me to protest, given I am a Canonical employee.
[22:28] <paul_h1> yep, why do you need to run within a vm Pendulum?
[22:28] <TheMuso> if not impossible really.
[22:28] <Pendulum> (I'll probably stick around parts within the community, like here, but it'll tell a hell of a lot to get me using it and recommending it in that situation)
[22:29] <TheMuso> Well, XFCE is coming along well with a11y, so that may be the next go-to point.
[22:29] <Pendulum> paul_h1: I have mobility issues and on really bad days I can barely use a mouse so need access to voice recognition software. there is no working voice recognition solution for Linux that I've found, but I can use MacSpeech dictate and it'll work with VMWare Fusion
[22:30] <Pendulum> what gets me is the number of people who tell me that accessibility is a core value for Ubuntu (and by people I mean managers and higher in Canonical)
[22:30] <Pendulum> and I always feel like I can't call them on it because I need to play nice to get stuff done
[22:30] <Pendulum> I will stop playing nice if I just get screwed over by doing so
[22:31] <TheMuso> Yeah, the tech gets built, and then a11y has to be added after the fact...
[22:31] <paul_h1> supporting desktops like xfce is on the orca roadmap. whether they'll have the resources to get it working right any time soon is debatable
[22:32] <TheMuso> paul_h1: XFCE upstrea are also doing all they can to get XFCE up to scratch with keyboard nav etc.
[22:32] <TheMuso> upstream
[22:32] <Pendulum> my own separate rant is the fact that a11y seems to keep getting talked about in terms of blind/visual impairment ignoring all the other groups where a11y is important, but that's separate from my annoyance with a11y in Ubuntu
[22:34] <TheMuso> Yes, I'll second that.
[22:34] <TheMuso> Its probably because in the Linux community at least, we are the largest group.
[22:34] <Pendulum> yeah, I'm sure
[22:35] <Pendulum> it doesn't just happen in Linux, but I see it more there because that's where I do stuff
[22:36] <TheMuso> Yep.
[22:36] <Pendulum> I suppose it's evening out with how in the physical world so many people equate access with wheelchair users ;-)
[22:37] <paul_h1> wondering whose decision it was not to implement CSPI for the d-bus at-spi. so many projects were using it. including dasher and gnome voice control
[22:38] <TheMuso> paul_h1: It was a matter of manpower, or a lack there of.
[22:38] <TheMuso> paul_h1: It would have been kept if someone steped up to work on it.
[22:38] <TheMuso> stepped
[22:41] <paul_h1> well it seems there are c bindings to the new at-spi but they're incompatible with the old ones? the Accessibility/GNOME3 page says it wouldn't be that much work to write a compatibility layer between the two. would save quite a few projects it seems if someone did
[22:42] <TheMuso> Yeah.
[22:42] <maco> TheMuso: a11y's like security. bolting it on afterward works poorly
[22:43] <TheMuso> maco: Hell yeah!
[22:43] <maco> my dad guffawed when i said that no-i-will-not-do-this-on-your-website-because-its-inaccessible.  "blind people can't use computers, silly!"  *blink* *blink*
[22:43] <TheMuso> haha
[22:44] <TheMuso> Well, if things keep on going this way, I think Vinux will gain popularity and strength, since its Ubuntu based, but can move to whatever DE is accessible for users.
[22:45] <maco> btw, TheMuso, i have another patch i'll be testing out tonight for more screenreaderiness in ubiquity. Riddell committed the other one
[22:48] <TheMuso> maco: Sweet.
[22:49] <TheMuso> maco: Thanks for your work, I should give ubiquity another look and see what I can do to make it better.
[22:49] <maco> its just a little one though. making the "install" button actually say "install" not "forward" because nowadays apparently it installs after partitioning, not at the end, so if you dont know that it's the point of no return, then....ew
[22:49] <paul_h1> yikes
[22:50] <maco> TheMuso: if you can tell me how to get accerciser to see it, thatd be wonderful.  then i could attempt to work on that script in orca.
[22:51] <TheMuso> maco: I'll see what I can do next week.
[23:23] <paul_h1> TheMuso: is natty running the d-bus at-spi?
[23:40] <TheMuso> paul_h1: Not by default, but it is available.