[00:58] <cuchufli> Hello, I've paired my laptop with a bluetooth vizio soundbar and I'm able to send sound to the soundbar with vlc, amarok, etc. but when I play sound from a browser (firefox,google-chrome,chromium) it sends to my laptop speakers instead. Any idea on how to correct this?
[01:20] <xieyi> I am using kubuntu 15.10. I cant find network manager at systray. is this a common problem?
[01:39] <volt72> topic /hacking
[01:40] <volt72> huehuehue
[01:42] <volt72> where can i find hardcore irc porn chats
[03:29] <koko__> hi there!
[03:29] <koko__> ?
[03:34] <keithzg> Hmm, let me see if I remember this one:
[03:34] <keithzg> !ask
[03:34] <keithzg> Yup, got it in one :)
[04:28] <sergiu> Привет всем
[04:28] <Unit193> !ru | sergiu
[05:16] <fahad> hi all, I have annoyed problem, whenever I add or edit a connection in a connection editor, it crashes
[05:18] <fahad> I am using kubuntu 15.10
[08:44] <u19809> Hi all, i have serious problems since I upgrade to wily werewolf.  Most serious is that plasma at startup regularly crashes and takes about 30 seconds to start
[08:45] <u19809> Also new is that the update software systray icon no longer disappears when updates have been performed
[08:45] <u19809> Also resume from sleep is 'dangerous' as there is no guarantee for it to resume to a working desktop
[09:12] <lordievader> Good morning.
[11:00] <Eluus> the "open file" window doesn't show usb drive, in any program, how can I fix that?
[11:01] <Eluus> in dolphin it's visible but from programs I can't reach the usb drive
[11:01] <Eluus> on kubuntu 15.10
[12:23] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[12:43] <Smurphy> Yo...
[12:44] <BluesKaj> yoyo :-)
[16:23] <amichair> is ktorrent working for anyone on 15.10?
[16:32] <Smurphy> yes.
[17:45] <MichaelTunnell> Rydell wasn't lead developer before stepping down right? Wasn't he something else?
[18:34] <BluesKaj> MichaelTunnell, afaik he was the lead dev. yes.
[19:16] <skierpage_> Hi, I'm trying to upgrade Kubuntu from 15.04 to 15.10. Muon Update Manager shows a nice "A new version of Kubuntu is available.", I click [Upgrade], I get the do-release-upgrade password...
[19:16] <skierpage_> minor bug: The Release Notes are for Ubuntu 15.10 'Wily Werewolf', no mention of Kubuntu
[19:18] <skierpage_> I click [Upgrade] it shows a download dialog for two packages that quickly download, and then nothing. No more progress,
[19:19] <skierpage_> ps alx -w -w shows no "upgrade" processes running
[19:21] <BluesKaj> skierpage_, open a terminal and try, sudo do-release-upgrade, but make sure all your 15.04 updates and upgrades are up to date first
[19:22] <skierpage_> I've done it three times now, I have three 7 MB /tmp/ubuntu-release-upgrader-blahblah directories.
[19:23] <skierpage_> BluesKaj: ahh, I specifically clicked [Upgrade] because I'd rather upgrade than instll 111 MB of 15.04 updates.  Thanks, I'll try it.  It looks like the upgrade downloaded wily updater stuff, set up /tmp/ubuntu-release-upgrader-blah directory, then no more.
[19:45] <skierpage_> I'm running from the command line and it got much further. So maybe my Muon or do-release-upgrade required updates to do the upgrade from the GUI
[19:47] <skierpage_> "3 installed packages are no longer supported by Canonical. You can still get support from the community." sadly the Ubuntu upgrader doesn't say *WHAT* these packages are. Bug since 2009
[19:49] <skierpage_> ah, if you ask for details of the install in the next step it tells you "No longer supported" amongst everything else.
[19:50] <Unit193> I only ever do-release-upgrade, can't say much for the other(s).
[19:50] <skierpage_> Unit193: I've had great success with the GUI updater for years
[19:51] <skierpage_> anyway, it's off and running, thanks y'all for the help
[19:51] <Unit193> Sorry. :3
[19:51] <Unit193> And, it's not the others don't work, I'm a CLI person. :)
[19:53] <lordievader> CLI FTW \o/
[19:54] <jaysnick> greetings! i'm new here.
[19:57] <Fanfare> Hi everybody.
[19:58] <BluesKaj> skierpage_, it makes no difference whether upgrade in the terminal or the gui, all package managers are frontends for the dpkg base system
[20:21] <Naizugai> What is the difference between Kubuntu 15.04 and 15.10?
[20:21] <rom1504> updated packages
[20:21] <Naizugai> So 15.10 is just more up to date?
[20:25] <rom1504> that's what every new version of a software is yeah
[21:24] <Guest38154> I have a dual  boot on this computer, and my windows partition will not boot, so I am trying to access my files on it...can I do that from kubuntu?
[22:23] <rom1504> yes
[22:53] <lolmaus> How do I make my second HDD auto-mount? I want user mount, not fstab. Kubuntu 15.10.
[22:59] <Gamayun> lolmaus: What do you mean by user mount?
[23:00] <Gamayun> I have my external HDD in fstab, it's still manageable in the device notifier etc.
[23:01] <Gamayun> If you mean the option to automount in system settings, I think it should be returning soonish.
[23:52] <andrewrey> Come here, niglets.


[02:25] <ujjain> Can I just replace templates for translations without losing actual translations?
[09:28] <OlivierN> hey, it seems that a qemu build on marid never completes
[09:28] <OlivierN> https://launchpad.net/~tiomap-dev/+archive/release/+build/3309649
[09:35] <OlivierN> hmmm, I have received a "fail to build" email (http://pastebin.com/y95ecgka) but the build log is not accessible from there
[09:35] <OlivierN> and from the former link, the build log shows ARM assembly code ;-)
[09:37] <wgrant> OlivierN: Try using Firefox instead of Chromium.
[09:38] <wgrant> Chromium mangles URLs containing tildes.
[09:38] <OlivierN> oh
[10:04] <OlivierN> hmmm, after canceling this never-ending build, the gst-plugins-base0.10 - 0.10.35-1+ti<IP_ADDRESS>+1 package is both marked as "Published" and "Build canceled". And I can't restart it
[10:05] <OlivierN> (from this PPA: https://launchpad.net/~tiomap-dev/+archive/release/+packages)
[10:06] <OlivierN> (btw, it is not published, apt-get can't fetch it)
[10:07] <czajkowski> wgrant: ^^
[10:07] <wgrant> OlivierN: The Published bit refers to the source package.
[10:07] <wgrant> OlivierN: It's not possible to retry a cancelled build.
[10:07] <OlivierN> I was told that there are problems with GStreamer packages since the move to qemu
[10:08] <wgrant> You'll need to talk to IS about that.
[10:08] <wgrant> This qemu stuff is all theirs.
[10:09] <OlivierN> well, I don't know the IS team, I'm working for TI ;-)
[10:09] <wgrant> Ah.
[10:10]  * wgrant blames Spads
[10:11] <OlivierN> at this point, I could increment the package version and re-push, but it will likely fail similarly (with ARM assembly code in the build log)
[10:12] <Spads> ಠ_ಠ
[10:13] <OlivierN> Note that previous version of this package were built successfully in Launchpad, when it was running on real HW
[10:13] <wgrant> Spads: yw
[10:13] <czajkowski> :)
[13:14] <YoBoY> hi
[13:15] <YoBoY> I have a question about the launchpad bazaar plugin, am I in the right place ? the question is how to use the lp-find-proposal, I can understand how this command work
[13:16] <YoBoY> I can't
[13:16] <jelmer> hi YoBoY
[13:17] <jelmer> YoBoY: yeah, this would be an appropriate place
[13:17] <YoBoY> great :)
[13:17] <jelmer> YoBoY: what would you like to know?
[13:18] <YoBoY> the problem is when I use bzr lp-find-proposal it throw me an error bzr: ERROR: No launchpad branch could be found for branch "file:///home/yoboy/public_html/documentation/ubuntu-fr-doc/". It seems my branch is not pointing to the right place, but I don't know how to do that
[13:21] <jelmer> YoBoY: it looks at the push location, etc to find the related launchpad branch IIRC
[13:24] <YoBoY> push_location = bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/%2Bbranch/ubuntu-fr-doc/
[13:24] <YoBoY> seems correct
[13:27] <jelmer> YoBoY: do you mean that it works, or that you think it should work but it doesn't?
[13:27] <YoBoY> it don't work, same error, I don't understand how i have to configure my branch to make it work
[13:31] <jelmer> YoBoY: can you try setting the lp: URL as the push location?
[13:32] <YoBoY> jelmer: "push_location = lp:ubuntu-fr-doc" ?
[13:32] <jelmer> yep
[13:33] <YoBoY> hum... new error : "bzr: ERROR: No review found."
[13:34] <YoBoY> but I have one merge proposal
[13:34] <jelmer> YoBoY: for the revision that you're specifying?
[13:35] <YoBoY> I haven't specified revision, it's not using the last one ?
[13:38] <jelmer> YoBoY: yes, it will default to the last revno of your local branch
[13:38] <YoBoY> what's the purpose of this command ? it's not to show merge proposals to help merge them without opening launchpad ?
[13:38] <jelmer> YoBoY: what does 'bzr revision-info' show?
[13:39] <jelmer> YoBoY: see its help - it finds the merge proposal that merged a particular revision in your branch
[13:39] <YoBoY> 111<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[13:40] <YoBoY> ok, really not what i expected :]
[13:41] <jelmer> YoBoY: I don't see a merge proposal relevant for r111
[13:41] <jelmer> YoBoY: so that error seems correct
[13:41] <dobey> jelmer: well i suppose it shouldn't be an error in that case, so much as a statement of fact :)
[13:42] <YoBoY> ok, sorry for my misunderstanding :)
[13:42] <dobey> error implies something is wrong
[13:42] <czajkowski> dobey: you know having no error is more annoying and wondering if you're going bonkers :)
[13:43] <YoBoY> the push_location not working out of the box is a bug, no ?
[13:43] <dobey> czajkowski: but only when there actually is an error :)
[13:44] <czajkowski> dobey: we have different ideas on errors
[13:45] <dobey> czajkowski: well "No merge proposal exists for this commit." is not an error in lp-find-proposal. the current message is misleading in that it implies something went wrong. and the error message is a bit too brief :)
[13:46] <dobey> czajkowski: it's a little different from "why do i have 2 copies of all my songs?!"
[13:46] <czajkowski> :)
[14:11] <DNX> hello czajkowski, may I ask you about DNX lp account again?
[14:14] <YoBoY> thanks everyone, bye :)
[15:07] <czajkowski> DNX: please file a question on https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-project/+addquestion
[15:07] <DNX> ook czajkowski, thank you
[15:22] <lazka>  What should I do regarding daily build in a PPA with source format 3.0? I used to append ~revision to the version, but now the orig.tar.gz doesn't contain that and lauchpad rejects the upload because a orig.tar.gz with that name is already there
[15:22] <lazka> Do I need to add the revision to the main version, giving me a new orig for each upload?
[15:28] <GridCube> hello, how in earth you report a bug without using ubuntu-bug? there is no one single link to it on the frontpage or the help page :/
[15:29] <czajkowski> GridCube: if it's against Ubuntu, that's the correct way to report a bug.
[15:30] <czajkowski> GridCube: what is the bug against ?
[15:31] <GridCube> czajkowski: its not if you can not send the report from an ubuntued machine, or another machine that is not even runing the same ubuntu. or if its another computer that has not the bug, or if you are doing beta2 tests and have to report a problem beause you lost network conection with it or a thousand etceteras
[15:33] <GridCube> nevermind i found the form on the wiki, really hided so it would be evenmore difficult to people to report bugs, way to go guys!!
[15:41] <lazka> seems I need to do version+rev
[16:34] <DNX> czajkowski, done here: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/191526
[16:34] <DNX> thank you for your time! Have a nice weekend!
[19:23] <haseeb> hi
[19:23] <haseeb> i am getting this error "Permission denied (publickey).
[19:23] <haseeb> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: Unexpected end of message. Please check connectivity and permissions, and report a bug if problems persis
[19:24] <dobey> haseeb: did you only recently add your ssh public key to your launchpad profile?
[19:24] <haseeb> dobey,  yes
[19:25] <dobey> haseeb: wait a bit then. sometimes it can take several minutes for things to update. i think a cron job runs every 15 or 30 min or something, to update ssh keys for accounts
[19:25] <haseeb> ok
[19:26] <haseeb> thanks
[19:26] <dobey> sure
[19:47] <yofel> hi, can someone please abort all builds on https://code.launchpad.net/~neon/+recipe/soprano ? They're stuck
[20:14] <Ramiel> how long does it take to dput reflect in LP?
[20:23] <dobey> Ramiel: dput to where?
[20:24] <Ramiel> to LP, but it's showing now
[20:28] <Ramiel> thanks anyway
[21:33] <alo21> hi all
[21:34] <alo21> I am using launchpad's API for my new application
[21:34] <alo21> but I have a problem with Karma
[21:34] <alo21> can someone help me?
[21:38] <alo21> abentley: can you help me?
[21:39] <abentley> alo21: Sorry, I don't know much about karma, and I'm done for the week.
[21:39] <alo21> abentley: do you know someone who could help me?
[21:41] <abentley> alo21: sinzui might know, but it's past his end-of-week too.
[21:42] <alo21> abentley: ok thank you very much
[21:43] <sinzui> alo21, We don't really support much karma over the API. We do not like it and are looking to remove it or at least its sense of being a score
[21:46] <alo21> sinzui: is "me.karma" the only API?
[21:46] <alo21> for karma


[11:02] <shel3over> Off, give voice :p plz
[13:12]  * shel3over apt-get girlfriend
[14:55]  * shel3over jmp
[18:43] <shel3over> hi proby megabraker teolemon elacheche_anis  Off
[18:43] <megabraker> hi
[18:43] <proby> hi
[18:44] <shel3over> ooooh wa akhiran :p
[18:44] <shel3over> kayen 3ibad real fi hadi channel :p
[18:44] <megabraker> shel3over , whats up :p
[18:44] <shel3over> megabraker, el vide :p
[18:45] <megabraker> same here
[18:45] <shel3over> Off,  ma 7abch ymadelna vioce :p
[18:46] <megabraker> this is why he is named off xD
[18:46] <shel3over> mmmdr nice one :p
[18:46] <elacheche_anis> hey guys
[18:47] <shel3over> hi elacheche_anis
[18:47] <shel3over> oooh ppl on ubuntu-dz :D
[18:47] <proby> ahla anis
[18:48] <shel3over> :where is our algerians geeks :D
[18:49] <proby> not sure if ubuntu is geek :S
[18:49] <shel3over> proby, nice one
[18:50] <shel3over> Off, we need voice :D
[18:51] <proby> :p
[19:04] <proby> shel3over , how old are you ?
[19:04] <shel3over> 23ans :'(
[19:04] <shel3over> proby, do u think im a kid :@
[19:04] <shel3over> :p
[19:04] <proby> :p am 21
[19:04] <proby> xD
[19:04] <shel3over> nice proby
[19:04] <shel3over> from ?
[19:05] <shel3over> i'm from usthb :p
[19:05] <shel3over> openminds club
[19:05] <proby> tunisia :p noclub
[19:05] <shel3over> welcome bro :)
[19:05] <shel3over> tn is more developed in IT then dz :'(
[19:06] <proby> thanks , usthb is a sort of university ?
[19:06] <shel3over> university :p
[19:06] <proby> nice :)
[19:06] <shel3over> Université des Sciences et de la Technologie HOUARI BOUMEDIENE
[19:06] <proby> i think dz is a kind mysterious :p
[19:07] <shel3over> hh yes it is :D
[19:07] <proby> :D
[19:08] <shel3over> proby,  u know Off  ?
[19:08] <proby> i had a chance one and red a Algerian  writer's book , it was nice
[19:08] <proby> Off seems to be dead , no i don't
[19:08] <shel3over> what r u doing here :p !
[19:09] <proby> just trying to enter arabic *nix channels :p
[19:09] <shel3over> mmmmdr
[19:09] <shel3over>  #arabpwn is a nice place (y)
[19:10] <proby> emmm seems interesting !
[19:10] <shel3over> yep :)
[19:11] <shel3over> http://programming-motherfucker.com
[19:11] <shel3over> mmmdr
[19:11] <shel3over> epic :p
[19:11] <proby> yeah
[19:11] <proby> is it arabic ?
[19:12] <proby> or just human ?
[19:13] <proby> shel3over , am seeing the nasa code book :p
[19:13] <proby> software measurement ...
[19:14] <shel3over> arabic room ( english )
[19:14] <shel3over> human and minds r arabic :p
[19:14] <shel3over> i dont why im op there xD
[19:14] <shel3over> know*
[19:15] <proby> :p
[19:15] <proby> the website is epic
[19:16] <proby> and yeah they are meaning programming as programming :D
[19:16] <shel3over> :)
[19:35] <shel3over> proby, connnection ......
[19:36] <proby> yeah i had a delay so reconnected :p
[19:58] <Off> hi there
[19:58] <shel3over> hi Off
[19:59] <Off> looks like there are some people alive here
[19:59] <shel3over> yes Off :)
[19:59] <Off> i can't stay, i've things to do
[19:59] <Off> i will be back in a 15 mins
[19:59] <Off> -a
[19:59] <shel3over> take your time :)
[19:59] <Off> thanks


[05:37] <Kilos> hi inetpro  nuvolari  nlsthzn  Squirm  and others
[05:37] <Squirm> morning
[05:58] <ThatGraemeGuy> morning all
[05:58] <Kilos> morning ThatGraemeGuy
[06:52] <Symmetria> lol man
[06:52] <Symmetria> networking world cant make up its mind what it wants
[06:52] <Symmetria> now they developing 25gig ethernet
[06:53] <Squirm> I want that
[06:53] <Symmetria> heh its strange, I've never seen them actually go backwards
[06:53] <Symmetria> cause they already have 10/100/1000/10000/40000/100000
[06:54] <Symmetria> adding a 25000 is a bit odd, but their argument actually makes some sense
[06:54] <Symmetria> typically 100gig is made by multiplexing 4 25G channels
[06:54] <Symmetria> so to introduce 25G is just to drop the multiplexing and drop back to a single channel
[07:50] <Spekko> Morning all & Kilos :P
[07:54] <Kilos> hi there Spekko
[07:54] <Kilos> im slow was busy ordering a 1TB drive yay
[07:55] <Kilos> then with new drive no excuse for crashes
[07:59] <ThatGraemeGuy> i'm waiting for those 8TB monsters to be R1,000 each :-p
[07:59] <Kilos> whew
[07:59] <Kilos> i need an i5 cpu before i worry about more stuff now i think
[08:00] <Kilos> pc will have to lumber on on a dual core
[08:01] <Kilos> but dual core with ddr3 is so much faster than dual core with ddr
[08:02] <Kilos> so im happy
[08:02] <Kilos> morning superfly
[08:11] <ThatGraemeGuy> meh, i don't really care about cpu
[08:11] <ThatGraemeGuy> my home machine has an old atom cpu
[08:11] <superfly> hi Kilos
[08:11] <superfly> and ThatGraemeGuy
[08:13] <ThatGraemeGuy> 'lo
[08:13] <ThatGraemeGuy> ready for the weekend superfly? :)
[08:14] <superfly> ThatGraemeGuy: ready as I'll ever be
[08:14] <ThatGraemeGuy> hehe
[08:14] <ThatGraemeGuy> had enough practice at least ;-)
[08:14] <ThatGraemeGuy> you're a braver man than I though... I'll stick with the pair :-o
[08:15] <Kilos> hehe
[08:23] <Kilos> ThatGraemeGuy  what specs is that pc?
[08:23] <Kilos> i dont know atom stuffs
[08:25] <ThatGraemeGuy> Kilos: http://www.zotac.com/products/mainboards/integrated-intel-cpu/zotac-ionitx/product/zotac-ionitx/detail/ionitx-u-series/sort/starttime/order/DESC/amount/10/section/specifications.html
[08:26] <ThatGraemeGuy> uses less than 40W at peak with 3 green HDDs
[08:34] <Kilos> ah not so old if it can take ddr3
[08:38] <Squirm> hello
[08:38] <ThatGraemeGuy> i bought it 4 years ago, not sure how old it was at that point
[08:38] <ThatGraemeGuy> hi Squirm
[08:38] <Squirm> Kilos: they're used for low power computing. So they're in things like Netbooks
[08:39] <Kilos> aha ty Squirm
[08:39] <Squirm> but now Intel has their new Haswell processors, which are also meant to be good
[08:39] <ThatGraemeGuy> or in my HTPC
[08:39] <Squirm> and are a little faster :P
[08:39] <Squirm> ThatGraemeGuy: what do you do?
[08:40] <Kilos> so its actually a good pc albeit some years old
[08:40] <ThatGraemeGuy> uh
[08:40] <Squirm> you seem to know your way around a computer quite well :P
[08:40] <ThatGraemeGuy> with the PC? or at work?
[08:40] <Squirm> work wise
[08:40] <ThatGraemeGuy> oh :)
[08:40] <ThatGraemeGuy> sysadmin
[08:40] <ThatGraemeGuy> at hetzner, in the custom hosting division
[08:41] <Squirm> nice
[08:41] <Squirm> ok
[08:41] <ThatGraemeGuy> we host things that don't fit well on the standardised hosting setups
[08:41] <Squirm> yeah
[08:41] <Squirm> had an interview with a company the other day that uses your custom hosting
[08:41] <ThatGraemeGuy> oh?
[08:42] <Squirm> yeah
[08:42] <Squirm> was quite interesting
[08:42] <Squirm> hopefully will here back from them soon
[08:44] <Squirm> meh
[08:44] <Squirm> s/here/hear
[08:44] <Squirm> then I might be moving
[08:44] <Squirm> which is exciting
[08:46] <Kilos> oh ThatGraemeGuy  your basic hosting is cheap hey, ian has just signed on with it i think
[08:46] <Kilos> like R25 a month
[08:47] <ThatGraemeGuy> mmm ours are R19/month for the basic plan
[08:47] <Kilos> yes that one
[08:47] <ThatGraemeGuy> or R39 for a slightly better one
[08:47] <ThatGraemeGuy> ah
[08:47] <Kilos> but R6 for domain name i think
[08:47] <ThatGraemeGuy> ah
[08:48] <Kilos> he is starting on his own so cutting costs wherever possible atm
[08:48] <ThatGraemeGuy> Squirm: where are you working currently?
[08:49] <Squirm> ThatGraemeGuy: Treverton Schools, up in kzn
[08:49] <ThatGraemeGuy> doing development or sysadmin?
[08:50] <Squirm> IT Technician, trying to get into proper sysadmin work. 'tis why I'm looking to move, a lot more opportunity.
[08:51] <Squirm> I'm not the sysadmin here, besides, we're 99% windows and I want to try and move away from that
[08:52] <ThatGraemeGuy> Squirm: check here as well if you are looking at moving anyway: http://www.hetzner.co.za/careers/career-opportunities
[08:55] <Squirm> thanks ThatGraemeGuy, going to apply
[10:13] <Kilos> ThatGraemeGuy  the R39 one is better in what way?
[10:13] <Kilos> what gets better as the price goes up
[10:14] <Kilos> apart from size
[10:26] <ThatGraemeGuy> uuuuhhhh
[10:26] <ThatGraemeGuy> i dunno
[10:26] <ThatGraemeGuy> lol
[10:26] <Kilos> hahaha
[10:26] <Kilos> i spose it might be a bit faster , maybe more ram allowed etc
[10:26] <ThatGraemeGuy> looks like just more space and more mailboxes
[10:27] <ThatGraemeGuy> you don't really get "ram allowed"
[10:27] <ThatGraemeGuy> its web hosting not a virtual server
[10:27] <Kilos> oh so they are all fast
[10:27] <ThatGraemeGuy> the home plans are not that great though, you don't get databases with them
[10:27] <ThatGraemeGuy> business plans start at R99
[10:29] <Kilos> well maybe he can upgrade later as business grows
[11:43] <Symmetria> heh good luck to anyone needing bandwidth tonight
[11:44] <Symmetria> IOS 8 due for release at 7pm ZA time
[11:44] <Symmetria> ;p
[13:51] <Kilos> wbb
[15:03] <Kilos> hi guys
[15:03] <Kilos> long time no gals here
[15:04] <Private_User> afternoon all
[15:04] <Kilos> hows Private_User
[15:05] <Private_User> hey Kilos, Private_User is ok and surviving as usual
[15:05] <Private_User> :)
[15:06] <Private_User> and you got that right long time no gals
[15:06] <Private_User> hehe
[15:42] <Kilos> i miss our maia
[15:42] <Kilos> and even mrsfly left
[15:46]  * Kilos loves nano
[16:15] <Kilos> hi nlsthzn
[17:26] <Kilos> hi Vince-0
[17:28] <Vince-0> Hi
[18:02] <Kilos> Maaz  coffee on
[18:02]  * Maaz starts grinding coffee
[18:07] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[18:07] <Kilos> Maaz  dankie man
[18:07] <Maaz> Groot plesier my vriend
[18:08] <ThatGraemeGuy> 'lo peeps
[18:09] <Kilos> hi ThatGraemeGuy
[19:43] <inetpro> good evening
[19:44] <superfly> hi inetpro
[21:20] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight


[22:51] <waldo323_> i'm going through computer books to reduce whats on the shelves a bit.   i have a bjarne stroustrup c++ programming language - second edition ('91 reprinted in '92)- would anyone what it or is it a good recycling candidate?


[00:11] <Chipaca> wgrant: should http://cpisnap.ols.internal/api/v1/ still work?
[00:11] <Chipaca> ah
[00:11] <Chipaca> d'oh
[00:11] <Chipaca> .internal
[01:05] <jorian> hello, I'm trying to make a snap for openmw (re-implementation of the morrowind game engine) and when trying to launch my snap, I'm getting the error "libGL error: unable to load driver: i965_dri.so"  I think I might be missing a plug.  Does anyone happen to know which plug would make that driver available?  I've tried adding x11, opengl, home, and pulseaudio.
[01:14] <qengho> jorian: This may be a red herring, but my question is, is there such a file inside your snap?
[01:20] <jorian> qengho: it seems to be in 3 places inside the snap directory
[01:20] <jorian> ./parts/openmw/install/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/dri/i965_dri.so
[01:20] <jorian> plus in stage and prime
[02:07] <olympionex> I'm looking at the guide for creating a snappy interface on zygoon.pl.  The method involves editing the snapd source and the recompiling the whole project.  Is there currently a way to add interfaces externally / by installing a snap similar to how the core snap works?
[02:11] <olympionex> I need to create an interface to allow writes to /var/run but I don't really want to have to manage a custom version of snapd
[03:09] <kyrofa> Thank you wgrant, I appreciate the help!
[03:10] <kyrofa> olympionex, the only reason the core snap can make any interface available is because the interfaces it supports are supported by snapd
[03:10] <kyrofa> It's not doing anything special
[03:11] <olympionex> kyrofa: thanks -- I see that now looking at the source
[03:11] <olympionex> kyrofa: all the interfaces are in snapd itself
[03:11] <kyrofa> qengho, if jorian comes back, the gl libs are required in stage-packages. Specifically libgl1-mesa-dri
[03:12] <kyrofa> olympionex, indeed: interface SUPPORT is in snapd, but then the producer (slot) side of interfaces must be supplied by a snap, and the consumer (plug) side must be consumed by a snap
[03:12] <kyrofa> The interface being USED by the plug/slot, however, must still be one that's supported by snapd
[03:14] <kyrofa> Oh wait... qengho nevermind, looks like that lib made it into prime. Just missing the right LD_LIBRARY_PATH then, it seems
[03:14] <olympionex> I see - so the content plugin lets a snap provide access to some internal path, but if I want to access some other system path, I will have to add it to snapd
[03:14] <kyrofa> olympionex, yes. Although I'm curious about your use-case, do you mind sharing?
[03:15] <olympionex> kyrofa: yeah, I just have a binary that I don't have the source to and it creates some socket files in /var/run
[03:15] <kyrofa> olympionex, yep that would do it :P . However, have you investigated using LD_PRELOAD to get around it?
[03:16] <olympionex> kyrofa: i was using classic mode, and probably still can, but it looks like it changed a bit in 2.22 maybe
[03:16] <olympionex> hmm, I'm have a look at that
[03:16] <kyrofa> 2.22 is a bit behind, 2.25 is out now
[03:17] <kyrofa> olympionex, there's a preload part out there already if you want to check it out. Here's an example of how to use it: https://github.com/nextcloud/client_theming/blob/master/linux/snap/snapcraft.yaml#L50
[03:17] <kyrofa> Check out line 34 as well for where it's pulled in
[03:18] <olympionex> I actually meant snapcraft 2.22.  The new version doesn't add the library paths to the command wrappers it generates.   I can of course just make my own script that gets called by the wrapper, but I need to research all the consequences.  I was just checking again about running it in strict mode
[03:19] <kyrofa> olympionex, in that case it's even older: 2.29 is out :P
[03:19] <kyrofa> olympionex, yeah, strict is _always_ best if you can swing it
[03:19] <kyrofa> olympionex, classic snaps have trouble running on other distros, and they don't run on ubuntu core either
[03:20] <kyrofa> olympionex, definitely worth investigating that preload part, especially considering it's an extra line and a half
[03:20] <wgrant> kyrofa: We've identified the two bugs in dashboard.snapcraft.io that combined to cause this issue. It's possible you'll run into similar issues again with that particular snap until we fix the root cause properly, but we know what's going on now so that should be quick.
[03:21] <kyrofa> wgrant, it's something particular to the snap?!
[03:21] <kyrofa> What did I break?
[03:22] <wgrant> kyrofa: A review race caused one of the revisions to get stuck in a bad state, and that will possibly confuse further automatic refuses until we fix that old revision.
[03:22] <wgrant> ...
[03:22] <wgrant> s/refuses/reviews/
[03:22] <wgrant> Hopefully not refusals :)
[03:22] <kyrofa> wgrant, ah ha, I wondered about that weird rev :P
[03:22] <wgrant> They shouldn't fail, just get stuck
[03:22] <kyrofa> wgrant, if I reject it, would that fix things?
[03:23] <wgrant> kyrofa: Quite possibly. We already know we need to manually fix that revision, so rejecting it can't really make it worse.
[03:23] <wgrant> So might be worth a try.
[03:23]  * kyrofa tries
[03:24] <olympionex> kyrofa: fortunately i have a limited set of systems I have to run on.  I use snapcraft to simply our internal deployment of some software.  Still, i prefer to get things working in the most supported way to avoid suprises later.
[03:25] <kyrofa> olympionex, understood
[03:26] <wgrant> kyrofa: Looks like that's worked.
[03:26] <wgrant> So we just need to manually fix up 1418 later.
[03:27] <kyrofa> wgrant, no need to worry about that one
[03:28] <olympionex> kyrofa: thanks for the preload info, i was  looking at some ELF hacking but this may be cleaner
[03:28] <kyrofa> olympionex, yeah that would not be fun
[03:28] <kyrofa> And of course, any time :)
[05:56] <mup> PR snapd#3393 opened: Add retry mechanism for snap install command to fix test <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3393>
[07:11] <abeato> pedronis, mvo mind unblocking re-reviewing https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3353 ?
[07:11] <mup> PR snapd#3353: Add support for reboot parameter <Blocked> <Created by alfonsosanchezbeato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3353>
[07:18] <zyga> good morning
[07:19] <mup> PR snapcraft#1333 opened: state: search for the dependencies in the archive <Created by elopio> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1333>
[07:21] <pstolowski> morning zyga!
[07:27] <zyga> o/
[07:32] <morphis> zyga: hey!
[07:32] <morphis> zyga: time for a review on https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3371 ?
[07:32] <mup> PR snapd#3371: packaging: import packaging bits for opensuse <Created by morphis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3371>
[07:35] <zyga> morphis: looking
[07:39] <morphis> zyga: CI hates me, another store timeout
[07:52] <morphis> zyga: but thanks for approving
[07:52] <morphis> zyga: and a review on https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3365 would be nice too
[07:52] <mup> PR snapd#3365: tests,packaging: add package build support for Fedora for our spread setup <Created by morphis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3365>
[08:03] <zyga> morphis: what does it mean https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3365/files#diff-3c11e56e5f7f82b0f352d0fe1851a107R268 ?
[08:03] <mup> PR snapd#3365: tests,packaging: add package build support for Fedora for our spread setup <Created by morphis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3365>
[08:04] <zyga> didn't the pkgdb helper land already
[08:04] <zyga> ah
[08:04] <zyga> sorry, I see
[08:04] <morphis> zyga: you can't use it at this place
[08:04] <morphis> ok :-)
[08:05] <Chipaca> ooh, listen to the wind!
[08:05] <Chipaca> it sounds like "reeeeviewwsss"
[08:05] <Chipaca> good morning peeps
[08:09] <zyga> morphis: done
[08:10] <zyga> hey Chipaca
[08:10]  * zyga feels miserable
[08:11] <Chipaca> zyga: :-(
[08:11] <Chipaca> zyga: did you see the issues ryebot was having yesterday?
[08:13] <zyga> Chipaca: yes but I didn't manage to reply
[08:13] <Chipaca> zyga: 's ok; i just don't want to have to remember it myself
[08:14] <Chipaca> if you're aware, i can forget
[08:14] <zyga> thanks :-)
[08:41] <pedronis> Chipaca: I nitpicked a bit on one of your PRs
[08:41] <Chipaca> pedronis: good morning to you too :-)
[08:42] <morphis> zyga: ok, updated the PR
[08:43] <Chipaca> pedronis: good points you make
[08:43] <zyga> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24642129/
[08:43] <Chipaca> pedronis: i'm currently working on a bug where we don't distinguish "already at the latest revision on that channel" from "that channel does not exist"
[08:43] <zyga> any wording suggestions before I do the full set?
[08:44] <Chipaca> pedronis: (you can try it! snap refresh core --channel potato)
[08:44] <Chipaca> pedronis: (then check 'snap info')
[08:44] <zyga> (ideally the output would be more consistent)
[08:44] <zyga> and not sure what to do with "allows"
[08:44] <zyga> maybe just skip it
[08:44] <Chipaca> 's fun
[08:45] <zyga> fun fact: we have 91 interfaces
[08:45] <zyga> I'll add a 100th anniversary interface ;-)
[08:47] <pedronis> Chipaca: can we do it without store help?
[08:47] <Chipaca> pedronis: the store is telling us
[08:47] <Chipaca> (more or less)
[08:48] <Chipaca> pedronis: i'm fixing it alreayd
[08:48] <mvo> zyga: I don't want to be a party pooper but https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/snapd-2-25-blocked-because-of-possible-revert-race-condition/722 is currently higher on the priority list than anniversaries ;)
[08:48] <Chipaca> pedronis: basically ListRefresh is fine for multi-updates, but we need a special one for single updates that doesn't throw away this info
[08:48] <Chipaca> pedronis: pretty much exactly the same except if the store returns nothing, raise an error
[08:48] <pedronis> Chipaca: just telling me why you won't fixing my nitpicks straight away :)
[08:49] <Chipaca> pedronis: yes, that's exactly what i'm doing
[08:49] <Chipaca> you're very perceptive today
[08:49] <pedronis> but inpolite because I didn't say good morning yet
[08:50] <Chipaca> pedronis: what's a good name for something that does what store.ListRefresh does, but for a single refresh candidate?
[08:50] <zyga> mvo: you are completely right
[08:50] <zyga> mvo: I'll finish this PR and send it for review in a moment
[08:51] <zyga> mvo: but before I do that, let's chat here briefly
[08:51] <zyga> mvo: if the new syntax is a blocker (I mean |N) then the plan falls apart
[08:52] <mvo> zyga: yeah, its rather annoying
[08:52] <zyga> mvo: your plan to compile seccomp profiles in snapd is possible
[08:52] <zyga> mvo: but, well, needs discussion
[08:52] <zyga> mvo: we could make a new internal helper
[08:52] <mvo> zyga: we would have to generate old-style files for a while for backward compatiblity
[08:52] <zyga> mvo: why? I don't think so
[08:52] <mvo> zyga: old style with a frozen format so that also is slightly complicated
[08:52] <mvo> zyga: no?
[08:52] <zyga> mvo: (just whatever matches snap-confine)
[08:52] <mvo> zyga: aha, just leave the old ones around :) ?
[08:52] <zyga> mvo: yes
[08:53] <zyga> mvo: so we'd stop writing the old files entirely (but not remove them yet)
[08:53] <zyga> mvo: for revert specifically
[08:53] <mvo> zyga: hm, that would break in the case of "snap refresh core; snap install hello; snap revert core", then hello would no  longer work. maybe not too terrible
[08:53] <zyga> mvo: aha
[08:53] <zyga> mvo: interesting, yes, it would work if snapd would start before "hello" but I see your point
[08:54] <mvo> zyga: aha, good point
[08:54] <zyga> mvo: but the bigger issue is that we'd have two seccomp profiles per security tag
[08:54] <zyga> mvo: one old and one new, with different semantics (because no |N)
[08:54] <mvo> zyga: yeah, that is the part that worries me, it feels fragile
[08:54] <zyga> mvo: but if we do that we can use the old text format
[08:54] <zyga> mvo: because we'd just write two files
[08:54] <zyga> mvo: one with |N and one without
[08:54] <mvo> heh
[08:54] <mvo> good point
[08:54]  * zyga greps for |N syntax
[08:55] <mvo> well, the seccomp bpf would make us future proof forever(tm)
[08:55] <zyga> weird
[08:55] <zyga> mvo: I agree on that
[08:55] <mvo> (needs some research but it looks like bpf is pretty stable as a binary format)
[08:55] <zyga> yes
[08:55] <mvo> zyga: what is weird?
[08:56] <zyga> mvo: I don't see any |N syntax with quick grep
[08:56] <pedronis> Chipaca: LookupRefresh ?
[08:56] <zyga> are we even using this?
[08:56] <zyga> mvo: (also it would be faster for startup, which is nice)
[08:57] <mvo> zyga: let me double check the debdiff
[08:57] <zyga> mvo: can you grep for anything that uses this
[08:57] <zyga> thanks!
[08:57] <mvo> zyga: if we are not using it, that would be splendid
[08:57]  * zyga feels sick again
[08:57] <zyga> yes :)
[08:57] <zyga> (perfect timing, just before a conference)
[08:57] <mvo> zyga: uh, get some rest if you feel sick, I can work on this
[08:58] <mvo> zyga: seriously, get well, especially if you need to travel soon
[08:58] <zyga> mvo: no, I cannot do anything about it :/
[08:58] <mvo> zyga: meh, ok
[08:58] <zyga> mvo: I'd rather finish the interface meta-data changes and feel better by doing that
[08:58] <zyga> mvo: sick as in food-sick, not flu-sick
[08:59] <mvo> zyga: autsch, ok. all right, I do the investigation on |N while you finish your interface work :)
[08:59] <zyga> OK
[08:59] <abeato> zyga,  mind unblocking/re-reviewing https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3353 ?
[08:59] <mup> PR snapd#3353: Add support for reboot parameter <Blocked> <Created by alfonsosanchezbeato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3353>
[09:08] <mvo> zyga: we use the |S_IFREG in our default template now https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/blob/master/interfaces/seccomp/template.go
[09:08] <mvo> zyga: I will write a forum topic with some ideas, looks like it is not going to be super simple, but maybe not to hard either
[09:20] <pedronis> mvo: zyga: one of you should probably review snapd#3350 if we want it in 2.27
[09:20] <mup> PR snapd#3350: interfaces,overlord/ifacestate: make sure installing slots after plugs works similarly to plugs after slots <Created by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3350>
[09:21] <pedronis> anyway I suppose 2.27 is delayed by a fair bit because of 2.25 issues?
[09:21] <pedronis> *fair bit now
[09:21] <mvo> pedronis: yeah, there is a slight crisis right now :/
[09:22] <pedronis> mvo: can't we just change the names of the seccomp profiles ? or start putting them into profiles/something
[09:22] <pedronis> s/something/somehash/
[09:22] <pedronis> and teach 2.26.x snap-confine about new new place
[09:23] <pedronis> s/new new/the new/
[09:24] <mvo> pedronis: probably, there is still this problem that "snap refresh core; snap install daemon; snap revert core" may lead to the same issue we currently having. i.e. the new snapd does only write a new seccomp file but on reboot daemon starts so early that the old snapd does not generate a new seccomp file early enough. but still doing this would probably get us a long way forward
[09:25] <pedronis> reverting core after installing new stuff is bound to create troubles anyway in some scenarios
[09:26]  * mvo nods
[09:26] <pedronis> I mean can see some non security profiles one
[09:26] <zyga> mvo: do we use |S_IFREG or just S_IFREG?
[09:26] <zyga> pedronis: ack
[09:27] <olympionex> has anyone used the snapcraft-preload project?  I'm thinking there is a bug in the preload for the bind method, or possibly there is something i'm not doing.  When creating an AF_UNIX socket, it would seem that it should redirect to a writeable path, but that doesn't seem to be the default behavior, at least for my case.  I have manually patched it on my side and it seems to work, but just wanting to verify.
[09:27] <zyga> olympionex: guys who wrote that are in americas so I'd suggest opening a forum topic
[09:30] <mvo> zyga: the former |S_IFREG
[09:32] <zyga> mvo: aww, drat
[09:32] <zyga> mvo: well
[09:32] <zyga> mvo: plan B
[09:32] <zyga> mvo: revert that change
[09:32] <zyga> mvo: like we did before
[09:33] <zyga> mvo: if it is just one spot it is easier
[09:33] <zyga> ah, there are a few
[09:33] <zyga> all the mknod
[09:34] <zyga> hmm hmm hmm
[09:34] <mvo> zyga: yeah
[09:37] <zyga> mvo: so what is your plan?
[09:38] <morphis> zyga: can you merge https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3371 ?
[09:38] <mup> PR snapd#3371: packaging: import packaging bits for opensuse <Created by morphis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3371>
[09:39] <mvo> zyga: I'm still pondering, its tricky. worst case would be to revert the new syntax again, i.e. revert all mknod and keep quotactl via the secompSymbolTable branch. we need jdstrand input here
[09:39] <zyga> morphis: done
[09:39] <mup> PR snapd#3371 closed: packaging: import packaging bits for opensuse <Created by morphis> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3371>
[09:39] <zyga> mvo: the question is, what do we lose if we do that
[09:39] <zyga> mvo: was this released in 2.25?
[09:40] <zyga> abeato: some feedback
[09:40] <abeato> zyga, ok, thanks
[09:48] <abeato> zyga, I've answered one of the comments
[09:58] <mvo> zyga: yeah, the mknod was released in 2.25, I think we need jamies input. but I will also try to find out more
[09:59] <zyga> mvo: can we replace |foo with a list of rules?
[09:59] <ogra_> hmm, so using delta updates on the pi3, the delay is noticeable but not super awful
[10:00] <ogra_> i fear that wont be usable on a bbb
[10:00] <mup> PR snapd#3388 closed: osutil: add non-blocking flock <Created by mvo5> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3388>
[10:02] <pedronis> sorry I did this merge ^ but messed up a bit the commit message, because GH seems very partial on what it remembers or not when you move away and back to a merge in progress
[10:22] <mup> PR core#35 closed: move xdg-open to proper paths <Created by ogra1> <https://github.com/snapcore/core/pull/35>
[10:22] <mup> PR core#38 closed: Add another pi-config option <Created by sergey-borovkov> <https://github.com/snapcore/core/pull/38>
[10:23] <mup> PR core#35 opened: move xdg-open to proper paths <Created by ogra1> <https://github.com/snapcore/core/pull/35>
[10:23] <mup> PR core#38 opened: Add another pi-config option <Created by sergey-borovkov> <https://github.com/snapcore/core/pull/38>
[10:23] <Chipaca> mvo: fgimenez: do you guys have dev access to etcd?
[10:24] <Chipaca> actually, i just want to know a revision of etcd that isn't published
[10:24] <Chipaca> bah
[10:24] <Chipaca> never mind
[10:24] <fgimenez> Chipaca: i don't sorry
[10:24]  * Chipaca noticed the store's response
[10:25] <Chipaca> $ /tmp/snp install potato --revision 2 --channel whaat
[10:25] <Chipaca> error: snap "potato" not found (at least in channel "whaat/stable" at revision 2)
[10:25] <Chipaca> incredible how much work i had to do to get that (at least) there
[10:27] <mup> PR snapd#3394 opened: interfaces/seccomp: add bind() syscall for forced-devmode systems <Created by morphis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3394>
[10:31] <ogra_> mvo, what is linux-armhf ? is that leftover cruft ? https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/issues-while-porting-ubuntu-core-16-image-for-olimex-lime2-platform-board/761 (snap info says its yours)
[10:34] <Chipaca> that's an old kernel
[10:34] <ogra_> yes
[10:34] <Chipaca> from before we could have multiple architectures in the same snap
[10:34] <ogra_> i just wonder why it is available
[10:34] <ogra_> we did a big cleanup run a while ago
[10:35] <morphis> zyga: thanks!
[10:39] <zyga> gaah
[10:39] <Chipaca> ogra_: fwiw i can confirm it's in the store
[10:39] <Chipaca> at revision 9
[10:40] <ogra_> Chsure, i wouldnt have pinged if i had not checked it before ;)
[10:40] <ogra_> yeah, in all channels
[10:40] <Chipaca> zyga: gah?
[10:40] <zyga> so, interface summary is very confusing to write
[10:40] <zyga> as plugs and slots have totally different purpose
[10:40] <zyga> what is a good summary of the "pulseaudio" interface?
[10:41] <zyga> it's both to be pulseaudio service and to talk to it as a clinent
[10:41] <Chipaca> zyga: "this interface lets you pulse your audio"
[10:41] <zyga> should we have two summary lines per interface? (up to)
[10:42] <Chipaca> zyga: are both those things available to you when you use it as a slot?
[10:42] <zyga> Chipaca: no, but this is not about plugs or slots
[10:42] <Chipaca> zyga: maybe it should be
[10:42] <zyga> Chipaca: this is about the new "interface" command and interface meta-data
[10:42] <zyga> Chipaca: what interfaces do you have? (not instances, types)
[10:43] <zyga> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24642921/
[10:43] <zyga> Chipaca: my misery so far
[10:43] <zyga> Chipaca: maybe "allows operating as or using the pulseaudio service"
[10:44] <Chipaca> zyga: is the "allows" there something you've agreed to standardize on?
[10:44] <Chipaca> looks nasty af
[10:44] <zyga> no, this is still a prototype
[10:44] <Chipaca> :-)
[10:44] <zyga> af?
[10:44] <Chipaca> zyga: how about you drop the allows and verb the thing you have after it?
[10:44] <Chipaca> zyga: as fireworks
[10:45] <Chipaca> :-p
[10:45] <zyga> Chipaca: yeah, I'm open to suggestions, I'll finish this pass to just have something consistent for each and then propose the bits and pieces
[10:45] <Chipaca> zyga: i mean: "allows frobbing the plumus" -> "frob the plumbus"
[10:45] <zyga> this is just one patch among many and one that I suspect we'll bikeshed the most
[10:46] <zyga> Chipaca: try this on 5 different real interfaces or it doesn't count
[10:46] <Chipaca> zyga: i did :-)
[10:46] <zyga> Chipaca: how about network?
[10:46] <mvo> ogra_: hm, a very old kernel that I put there for experiments I think, I will unpublish it
[10:46] <Chipaca> zyga: "access the network"
[10:47] <Chipaca> zyga: pulsaudio would be, for example, "host or communicate with a pulsaudio server"
[10:47] <ogra_> mvo, thanks
[10:47] <mvo> ogra_: done
[10:48] <Chipaca> zyga: unity8 would be "aw, bless"
[10:48] <zyga> Chipaca: kind of like the pulseaudio thing but this is still very confusing IMO, from users POV (no deep insight into plug-vs-slot semantics) there's a lot of difference here
[10:48] <Chipaca> zyga: remember these are more for orientation and not explanation
[10:48] <Chipaca> that is, details at the url
[10:48] <zyga> yes, that is true
[10:49] <zyga> the URL is already in the meta-data
[10:49] <Chipaca> zyga: a user looking at this list is either refreshing their memory, or wanting to know what to read to learn more
[10:49] <Chipaca> zyga: so you give them enough information to pare down the list
[10:50] <Chipaca> anything networkish, they're probably going to have to look at all the network* things the first time to figure out what they need
[10:50] <Chipaca> the second time it'll be enough as is
[10:57] <mup> PR snapd#3381 closed: logger (& many more, to accommodate): drop explicit syslog <Created by chipaca> <Merged by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3381>
[11:02] <Chipaca> zyga: hmmm
[11:02] <zyga> yes?
[11:03] <Chipaca> $ snap remove http
[11:03] <Chipaca> error: cannot perform the following tasks:
[11:03] <Chipaca> - Remove security profile for snap "http" (x1) (cannot setup mount for snap "core": cannot update mount namespace of snap "core": cannot update preserved namespace of snap "core": cannot update snap namespace: not implemented)
[11:03] <zyga> Chipaca: you are using snapd from master but the rest from package
[11:03] <zyga> Chipaca: just buind and install snap-update-ns
[11:03] <Chipaca> ah ok
[11:03] <zyga> also
[11:03] <zyga> our error stacking sucks
[11:03] <Chipaca> i'll get there eventually
[11:04] <zyga> Chipaca: you want discard-ns too
[11:04] <zyga> FYI
[11:04] <zyga> and snap-confine
[11:04] <Chipaca> zyga: so, make hack
[11:04] <zyga> or you may hit weird issues
[11:04] <zyga> Chipaca: yes, and I need to teach it to build the go parts maybe :)
[11:04] <Chipaca> nah, those are easy :-)
[11:06] <zyga> just 4 left
[11:08] <Chipaca> ok, i've got to run
[11:08] <Chipaca> got physio
[11:08] <zyga> take care!
[11:08] <Chipaca> I probably won't be back in time for standup
[11:09] <pedronis> morphis: is this https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/run-configure-hook-of-core-snap-if-present-runs-seemingly-forever/674/2 the snapctl/bind issue likely, or something else?
[11:09] <Chipaca> so: i'm working on "snap refresh core --channel bogus" (which currently, erroneously, works)
[11:09] <Chipaca> got a fix already, fixing tests and cleaning it up, should have pr before eod
[11:09] <Chipaca> also, got some work to do on go patch
[11:11] <morphis> pedronis: it looks different here as from the log output it hangs at "Mount snap"
[11:11] <pedronis> so the topic is wrong?
[11:11] <morphis> pedronis: and the bind() issue shouldn't occur for the core snap as the core snap now plugs network-bind
[11:11] <pedronis> it's not about configure
[11:11] <morphis> pedronis: the first post in that topic is
[11:12] <morphis> "[-] Run configure hook of "core" snap if present"
[11:12] <pedronis> ok, confusion
[11:43] <morphis> zyga: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3394 is ready for a merge unless you want someone else to have a look
[11:43] <mup> PR snapd#3394: interfaces/seccomp: add bind() syscall for forced-devmode systems <Created by morphis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3394>
[11:43] <zyga> morphis: can mvo ack it please?
[11:43] <morphis> mvo: ^^
[13:57]  * zyga prepares the three banches
[14:00] <morphis> zyga: btw. when you try lxd on suse just don't forget to disable AppArmor for the containers
[14:01] <morphis> niemeyer: Spread-32 is now down to 1.3G, ok for you?
[14:07] <zyga> morphis: aha
[14:07] <zyga> morphis: how do I do that?
[14:08] <Chipaca> zyga: --with-less-security
[14:09] <Chipaca> zyga: --make-hackable
[14:09] <Chipaca> zyga: --wanton-insecurity
[14:09] <Chipaca> zyga: --make-chipaca-stop
[14:09] <zyga> Chipaca: sudo make me a sandwitch
[14:09] <mup> PR snapd#3395 opened: many: remove interface meta-data from list of connections <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3395>
[14:09]  * zyga didn't eat anything but breakfast today
[14:09] <cachio> fgimenez, how do you usually retriger a ci check when there is a failure which doesn't need any change in the code?
[14:09] <zyga> Chipaca: ^^ please land that
[14:09] <cachio> fgimenez, I got this https://travis-ci.org/snapcore/snapd/builds/235333896?utm_source=github_status&utm_medium=notification
[14:10] <Chipaca> zyga: you're going off?
[14:12] <morphis> zyga: https://github.com/lxc/lxd/issues/3096
[14:18] <fgimenez> cachio: i can't retrigger on travis sorry, i think only people in the snapd-commiters team can retrigger
[14:18] <fgimenez> cachio: usually, if your PR needs to wait, merging master is a good idea in general, that push retriggers the build
[14:22] <morphis> zyga: https://github.com/lxc/lxd/issues/3345
[14:27] <cachio> fgimenez, nice, tx
[14:37] <niemeyer> morphis: Any chance we can take it a bit further down?  This will likely be something like ~2G for imaging purposes
[14:38]  * zyga -> car & kids
[14:48] <mup> PR snapd#3396 opened: interfaces: add summary to each interface <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3396>
[14:50] <mup> PR snapd#3397 opened: interfaces: disable "mknod |N" in the default seccomp template again <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3397>
[14:51] <zyga> niemeyer: ^^
[14:55] <niemeyer> morphis: Also sent a review on the no-apparmor bind issue.. we should probably have forum conversation about that one.. given the comment is not entirely clear that we're in agreement about what's going on in that case
[14:57] <zyga> cachio: hey
[14:57] <zyga> cachio: some failing tests https://travis-ci.org/snapcore/snapd/builds/235657720?utm_source=github_status&utm_medium=notification
[14:57] <zyga> cachio: please collect the log if you want to keep inspecting it, as I want to restart the test
[14:59] <mup> PR snapd#3393 closed: tests: add retry mechanism for snap install command <Created by sergiocazzolato> <Closed by niemeyer> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3393>
[15:01] <ryebot> zyga: I found a workaround for my issue, so I'm no longer blocked, but I added what useful information I could to this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1687079
[15:01] <mup> Bug #1687079: cannot change profile for the next exec call: No such file or directory <Snappy:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1687079>
[15:01] <ryebot> good luck!
[15:02] <zyga> ryebot: thank you!
[15:02] <ryebot> np!
[15:05] <niemeyer> cachio: This one might be easy to address: http://paste.ubuntu.com/24644624/
[15:06] <mvo> Chipaca: silly systemd question, we have this problem currently that when a new snapd boots it will rewrite the apparmor/seccomp profiles. however snap services start in parallel so there is a race condition here and they could start before snapd finished updating the profiles. I wonder if we could use systemd to sync this, i.e. have a way to say for all snap service that they may only start after snapd-regenerate-profiles was run. wdyt?
[15:06] <Chipaca> mvo: is snapd-regenerate-profiles a systemd service, or is it a task?
[15:06] <Chipaca> (the answer is yes either way)
[15:07] <mvo> Chipaca: it is something that happens in the daemon at startup, so no proper task just a part of the init of snapd
[15:07] <mvo> Chipaca: I like the "yes" here
[15:07] <Chipaca> mvo: ok, so it's going to be a little bit of work
[15:07] <Chipaca> mvo: we need to make systemd be a "notify" daemon
[15:08] <Chipaca> (btw, I don't know if this'll work in 14.04)
[15:08] <Chipaca> um
[15:08] <Chipaca> i mean we need to make *snapd* be a notify thing
[15:08] <pedronis> ah
[15:08] <mvo> Chipaca: aha, there is a branch for that
[15:08] <Chipaca> there is? nice
[15:09] <mvo> Chipaca: but of course that branch can not do much currently except for telling systemd that it is still alive in a crude way
[15:09] <mvo> 3111
[15:09] <pedronis> I think the idea is that snapd wouldn't notify until it has rewritten the profiles
[15:09] <pedronis> that it's started
[15:09] <mvo> yes!
[15:10] <pedronis> I don't know how that vs the watchdog stuff interact though
[15:10] <mvo> pedronis: aha, maybe I misunderstand, I thought the notify thing was the same socket, let me double check
[15:11] <Chipaca> so
[15:11] <mvo> pedronis: i.e. that we can reuse code, but I will double check :)
[15:11] <Chipaca> they both do sd_notify
[15:11] <Chipaca> one with WATCHDOG=1
[15:11] <Chipaca> one with WHATUPDOG=1
[15:11] <Chipaca> i mean READY=1
[15:12] <Chipaca> so, the watchdog code needs rewriting to support this
[15:12] <Chipaca> or at least refactoring
[15:12] <mvo> yep
[15:13] <Chipaca> but relatively easy i think
[15:14] <zyga> mvo: that thing can be a snap internal command
[15:14] <zyga> mvo: it would be easier to get this right
[15:14] <zyga> mvo: essentially a snapd ping of any kind is sufficient
[15:14] <zyga> mvo: then no need to make snapd notify anything
[15:14] <zyga> mvo: it's just a "snap ensure-soon" or whatever
[15:14] <zyga> mvo: and we're done
[15:15] <zyga> another call-for-feedback on https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3396
[15:15] <mup> PR snapd#3396: interfaces: add summary to each interface <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3396>
[15:16] <zyga> I'd like to land it once green, I'm happy to iterate on the summary lines
[15:16] <zyga> once it lands I can propose the command that uses this and needed plubming
[15:16] <ryebot> Is there a way to prevent automatic refreshes occurring?
[15:17] <zyga> ryebot: no
[15:17] <zyga> ryebot: you can set a refresh schedule
[15:17] <zyga> ryebot: but refreshes are mandatory
[15:17] <ryebot> alright, where can I find docs on the refresh schedule?
[15:18] <ryebot> nvm, I found a forum post
[15:18] <mvo> zyga: I'm not sure I understand. all snaps that have services will need to have an After=snapd-regenerated-service in their auto-generated systemd service and we need to emit that when we are finished with the generation. how is this related to an internal command?
[15:18] <mvo> Chipaca: thanks a bunch for your input, I will start a forum thread about it
[15:19] <Chipaca> zyga: what do you mean 'no need to make snapd notify anything'?
[15:19] <Chipaca> right
[15:20] <zyga> mvo: my point is that that After= can refer to a new unit that just says "snap ping" to wake up snapd
[15:20] <Chipaca> mvo: AIUI it'd be just After=snapd, with snapd not considered "up" until it's sd_notified of READY=1
[15:20] <zyga> mvo: no need to involve more complex tooling
[15:20] <Chipaca> ahh
[15:20] <zyga> Chipaca: that the more complex solution is probably fine but this feels easier
[15:20] <zyga> Chipaca: it could just be after=snapd really
[15:21] <ryebot> So, this is a little problematic for my use case. I'm helping the LF build multiple k8s clusters into an image for use in their k8s certification exam. During image build, the k8s bin versions might be something like 1.6.2. During testing (which could be any time, afaict), bam! 1.6.4 comes out and disrupts services etc.
[15:21] <zyga> Chipaca: I do agree that snapd needs to say "I'm up" to systemd for an "after=snapd" approach
[15:21] <Chipaca> agreed about the ping, now that i got you, but it's more hackish, and we want to have the sd_notify thing already
[15:21] <Chipaca> (for the watchdog)
[15:21] <Chipaca> so might as well do it
[15:21] <Chipaca> imho
[15:21] <zyga> Chipaca: yes, that's fine
[15:21] <Chipaca> fwiw
[15:21] <ryebot> So the refresh schedule doesn't actually aid me in this case.
[15:22] <Chipaca> ryebot: hold on
[15:22] <ryebot> kk
[15:22] <zyga> ryebot: can you re-phrase that, are you testing an image with snapd on it or is k8s just a snap of some kind
[15:22]  * zyga is unsure what it is
[15:22] <ryebot> We
[15:22] <ryebot> We are building an ami running a bunch of k8s clusters under lxd
[15:23] <ryebot> the k8s clusters use CDK, which use snaps to install the k8s bins/services
[15:23]  * zyga sees techno-babble
[15:23] <zyga> ami's I grok
[15:23] <zyga> k8s is that kubernetes?
[15:23] <ryebot> kubernetes*
[15:23] <ryebot> yes sorry
[15:23] <Chipaca> ryebot: what's the problem with the refresh schedule?
[15:23]  * zyga reverses shield polarity and re-reads
[15:24] <ryebot> Just that (afaik) people could be taking the test at any time of day, so we can't really pick a time to refresh that we can be sure won't interrupt them.
[15:25] <zyga> ryebot: can you tell me what is the test?
[15:25] <ryebot> kubernetes certification exam
[15:25] <zyga> ryebot: when would you want them to test old lxd/kubernetes?
[15:25] <zyga> aha
[15:25] <zyga> I see
[15:25] <ryebot> still in development
[15:29] <ryebot> zyga: the version probably won't matter most of the time, so long as it's compatible with the test constraints
[15:29] <zyga> ryebot: so here's an idea
[15:30] <zyga> ryebot: just track the stable channel
[15:30] <zyga> ryebot: and a specific version therein
[15:30] <zyga> ryebot: sure, you may get updates
[15:30] <zyga> ryebot: but only within that channel
[15:31] <zyga> and the channel can track, say, version 2.x or 2.3.x (numbers are just examples)
[15:31] <ryebot> Yes, we currently have them track 1.6.x, the problem is that some of these snaps are services, and so the update can interrupt them
[15:32] <matiasb> kyrofa, o/ hey, fyi, I'm looking at the r1418 issue with nextcloud, trying to leave it in a consistent/coherent state (just in case you get some emails about state changes); automated review passed, so it should get approved (and then, it will be available through the branch it is released)
[15:32] <zyga> aha
[15:32] <kyrofa> matiasb, oh thanks, I saw that it got put into the manual review queue, so I rejected it again and was gonna ping someone asking about that :P
[15:32] <kyrofa> matiasb, makes sense if you're poking at it
[15:33] <matiasb> kyrofa, oops, sorry! give me a min and it should get fixed (and run the review for the newer upload automatically)
[15:34] <kyrofa> matiasb, oh no problem
[15:34] <kyrofa> matiasb, is this one of the higher rev-count snaps?
[15:36] <matiasb> kyrofa, there, r1418 back in track, everything should be ok there
[15:36] <matiasb> kyrofa, it is one of the highest, for sure
[15:37]  * mcphail notes kyrofa's nextcloud snap is at revision 1337 :)
[15:37] <zyga> leet :)
[15:38] <kyrofa> mcphail, yes I was convinced that rev was bug-free. Unfortunately I was wrong :(
[15:38] <kyrofa> matiasb, thank you!
[15:38] <Chipaca> ryebot: how urgent is this concern of yours btw?
[15:39] <Chipaca> ryebot: because there is the idea of being able to tell snapd to not refresh things for a bit, i think (but i'd need to check)
[15:39] <Chipaca> but it's not even scheduled afaik
[15:39] <ryebot> Chipaca: Honestly not sure. I mean, it may never happen, or we could really screw up some candidate's tests. The risk appears high enough that the LF devs brought it up.
[15:40] <ryebot> Chipaca zyga: crazy idea - would disabling the snapd daemon work? :|
[15:40] <zyga> Chipaca: yes
[15:40] <zyga> er
[15:40] <zyga> ryebot: yes
[15:40] <zyga> ryebot: we also have refresh timer that fires very infrequently
[15:41] <zyga> ryebot: so you'd have to disable both
[15:41] <ryebot> also a service?
[15:41] <Chipaca> ryebot: yep, you can even say 'systemctl disable --now snapd.*' and it'd TTRT
[15:41] <Chipaca> DDRT even
[15:41] <ryebot> perfect
[15:41] <zyga> DTET
[15:41] <ryebot> thanks guys!!
[15:41] <zyga> do the evil thing
[15:41] <ryebot> hahaha
[15:41] <Chipaca> note that * is for systemctl itself, so you might need to protect it from your shell
[15:41] <ryebot> gotcha +1
[15:42] <Chipaca> alternatively systemctl's tab completer is good enough that you can do snapd.<alt *> and it'll complete it for you
[15:42] <ryebot> alright great I'm going to try this out :)
[15:44] <zyga> Chipaca: fancy looking at https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3396
[15:44] <mup> PR snapd#3396: interfaces: add summary to each interface <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3396>
[15:44] <zyga> Chipaca: I'd like to do at most one bikeshed iteration, land it, propose more, than iterate ad-infinitum on the language
[15:44] <zyga> Chipaca: I essentially want to land the first two patches there
[15:54] <morphis> niemeyer: I've already drop most things I could, trying to remove anything further leads to removal of base system components
[15:55] <niemeyer> morphis: Can you please paste "rpm -qa" somwhere?
[15:57] <zyga> scaleway non-compliant "ubuntu" kernel: https://github.com/RocketChat/Rocket.Chat/issues/7000#issuecomment-303668983
[16:11] <mup> PR snapd#3395 closed: many: remove interface meta-data from list of connections <Created by zyga> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3395>
[16:12] <zyga> Chipaca: I'll land the branch and change the things as suggested after opening another PR, thus completing the set
[16:12] <zyga> mvo: what is the state of the CE blocker?
[16:17] <ogra_> pedronis, hmm, did the timing of the device initialization on firstboot change recently ? my hummingboard image shows some weird behaviour
[16:17] <ogra_> after console-conf:
[16:17] <ogra_> ogra@localhost:~$ snap list
[16:17] <ogra_> No snaps are installed yet. Try "snap install hello-world".
[16:17] <ogra_> ogra@localhost:~$ sudo reboot
[16:17] <ogra_> and after the reboot:
[16:18] <ogra_> ogra@localhost:~$ snap list
[16:18] <ogra_> Name                 Version                   Rev   Developer  Notes
[16:18] <ogra_> core                 16-2.26.3+git209.2f19233  2020  canonical  -
[16:18] <ogra_> hummingboard-gadget  16.04-1                   x1               -
[16:18] <ogra_> hummingboard-kernel  4.1rc                     x1               -
[16:18] <pedronis> ogra_: nothing that I know of
[16:18] <ogra_> weird
[16:18] <ogra_> i have never seen something like that ... either snap list is broken and stays that way all the time ... or it works right after console-conf
[16:19] <ogra_> having it only work after a reboot is very weird
[16:20] <pedronis> ogra_: snap changes should tell when things happend
[16:20] <ogra_> yeah, i just dont know when exactly the reboot happened :P
[16:20] <ogra_> ogra@localhost:~$ snap changes
[16:20] <ogra_> ID   Status  Spawn                 Ready                 Summary
[16:20] <ogra_> 1    Done    2017-05-24T16:16:11Z  2017-05-24T16:16:26Z  Initialize system state
[16:20] <ogra_> 2    Error   2017-05-24T16:16:24Z  2017-05-24T16:16:49Z  Initialize device
[16:21] <ogra_> (the error is indeed the serial ... i'm working with --extra-snaps atm)
[16:21] <pedronis> well, it never finished
[16:22] <pedronis> if it's in error
[16:22] <pedronis> so it probably just retrying again and again
[16:22] <pedronis> so sometimes there's no snap
[16:22] <pedronis> and sometimes there are some
[16:22] <ogra_> yeah, i see change 3 now ... same error
[16:22] <ogra_> seems to loop
[16:22] <ogra_> interesting
[16:22] <pedronis> well, it errors
[16:23] <pedronis> also erroring there might also explode
[16:23] <pedronis> (which is something I managed to reproduce but need to look into)
[16:23] <ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24645391/
[16:23] <ogra_> well, the stuff doesnt look unusual
[16:23] <pedronis> ah, no
[16:23] <pedronis> sorry
[16:23] <pedronis> yes, that's expected
[16:24] <pedronis> nothing to do with list
[16:24] <pedronis> we are interesting in change 1
[16:24] <pedronis> not change 2
[16:24] <ogra_> i'm not canonical and kernel/gadget are sideloaded
[16:24] <pedronis> when the bits of change 1 happened
[16:24] <pedronis> whether something was unusually slow there
[16:24] <ogra_> OOOH !
[16:24] <ogra_> interesting
[16:25] <pedronis> s/interesting/interested/
[16:25] <ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24645393/
[16:25] <ogra_> the config hook
[16:25]  * ogra_ seens "namespace" in the error and blames zyga
[16:25] <ogra_> :P
[16:26] <morphis> niemeyer: hm, lost the instance somehow, do you still see it?
[16:26] <pedronis> ogra_: anyway the times there look immediate
[16:26] <pedronis> bit confused about snap list
[16:26] <niemeyer> morphis: If it's around for more than two hours and there's contention for machines, spread will kill it
[16:27] <pedronis> ogra_: I suppose you to look at those times vs reboots times
[16:27] <ogra_> yeah
[16:27] <pedronis> s/to look/have to look/
[16:27] <ogra_> i guess i need to start over for that and actually capture timestamps
[16:27] <zyga> ogra_: which kernel are you on?
[16:27] <ogra_> indeed i didnt at the first run
[16:27] <ogra_> zyga, "some" kernel ... :P
[16:27] <zyga> ogra_: 3.x or 4.x?
[16:28] <ogra_> zyga, could well be missing some bits
[16:28] <ogra_> 4.1
[16:28] <zyga> I see
[16:28] <zyga> let me know if you need help next week
[16:28] <ogra_> will do
[16:28]  * ogra_ is happy to finally have a working gadget ... sanitizing the kernel is next
[16:29] <ogra_> getting uboot to DTRT was rally painful this time
[16:30] <ogra_> ogra@localhost:~$ htop
[16:30] <ogra_> cannot perform readlinkat() on the mount namespace file descriptor of the init process: Permission denied
[16:31] <ogra_> yeah, definitely kernel bits missing
[16:31] <zyga> ogra_: can you look for dmesg | grep DENIED
[16:31] <ogra_> May 24 16:16:25 localhost kernel: [   58.405309] audit: type=1400 audit(1495642585.323:10): apparmor="DENIED" operation="ptrace" profile="/usr/lib/snapd/snap-confine" pid=1563 comm="snap-confine" requested_mask="read" denied_mask="read" peer="unconfined"
[16:33] <ogra_> zyga, dont bother yet ... i havent touched the kernel at all yet and only went with what was there for this board ... i'm actually surprised it works so well
[16:34] <zyga> ogra_: you can help yourself out by editing /etc/apparmor.d/usr.lib.snapd.snap-confine.real (just copy it)
[16:34] <zyga> ogra_: you can switch snap-confine to complain mode
[16:35] <zyga> ogra_: and load it into the kernel with apparmor_parser -r
[16:35] <zyga> ogra_: let me know if you need the exact syntax of the file
[16:35] <ogra_> why does it have that .rela suffix ?
[16:36] <ogra_> *real
[16:36] <pedronis> war scars
[16:36] <ogra_> hahaha
[16:36] <zyga> yes
[16:36] <zyga> because dpkg bugs
[16:36] <pedronis> some backward incompatibility, dependency issue
[16:36] <zyga> looong story
[16:37] <zyga> ogra_: just add ",complain" after "attach_disconnected
[16:37] <zyga> ogra_: that should fix it
[16:39] <ogra_> zyga, so it does
[16:39] <ogra_> htop starts
[16:41] <niemeyer> morphis: We seem to have machines available, and Spread-32 is still running with opensuse
[16:41] <niemeyer> morphis: Created 8h44 ago
[17:03] <morphis> niemeyer: it was 61, need to shift that to next monday, running out of time here
[17:13] <Saviq> is it known that cleanbuild is somewhat incompatible with version-script? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24645640/
[17:20] <niemeyer> morphis: Sorry, I'm getting a bit lost.. you said 32 above, and 32 indeed has opensuse on it..
[17:21] <niemeyer> 11:01:35 <morphis> niemeyer: Spread-32 is now down to 1.3G, ok for you?
[17:35] <mvo> zyga: hi, sorry for the slow reply. state of the blocker is that there are two branches up for review, I summarized the short term fix in https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/snapd-2-25-blocked-because-of-possible-revert-race-condition/722 - ideally we would have the input from jdstrand on this too. alternatively we could just revert both mknod |N and quotactl and then we just need to merge a single branch not the seccomp-resolver one (hope this explaina
[17:35] <mvo> tion makes sense?)
[17:36] <jdstrand> mvo: as it happens, I'm here today after all
[17:37] <mvo> jdstrand: aha, were you supposed to be off?
[17:37] <mvo> jdstrand: please let me know if the above forum post makes sense, there is a bit of a problem with the snap-confine syntax/symbols, its summarzied there
[17:38] <jdstrand> mvo: ok, so I can ignore backscroll and only look at the forum?
[17:38] <zyga> mvo: no worries :)
[17:38] <zyga> mvo: yes, I'll follow the post shortly
[17:38] <mvo> jdstrand: thats probably enough
[17:39] <mvo> jdstrand: unless the post summarizes the problem not well enough :)
[17:40] <jdstrand> ok, let me read it
[17:41] <jdstrand> mvo: oh, I thought there was something in place to say that snapd always needed to start before services. when did that change?
[17:41] <zyga> jdstrand: we only had that in 15.04 for services AFAIR
[17:42] <mvo> jdstrand: it got lost along the way, but even if we had it it would still be racy, because snapd needs some (small amount of) time to write the new profiles
[17:42] <jdstrand> commands shouldn't start before snapd if the login session is supposed to start after snapd
[17:42] <mvo> jdstrand: so we really need something that is ready only after snapd has completed that profile generation
[17:42] <zyga> mvo: one more idea
[17:42] <zyga> mvo: is to have snap run ask snapd to do this
[17:43] <zyga> mvo: if services start after snapd
[17:43] <zyga> mvo: then there's no need to have snap run not wake snapd up
[17:43] <zyga> mvo: it's a bit ... well, but it has some good things as well
[17:43] <zyga> mvo: like we could refresh on demand this way
[17:43] <zyga> mvo: or warn about CVEs that snapd synced
[17:43] <zyga> mvo: lots of ideas are possible
[17:43] <mvo> zyga: yeah, I think we discussed this but we don't want snapd in the critical path for snap run all the time
[17:43] <zyga> mvo: but we are adding it back now
[17:43] <zyga> mvo: after=snapd does that already
[17:43] <pedronis> mvo: but the ordering solution does that anyway
[17:44] <zyga> mvo: unless I'm mistaken and after=snapd won't start snapd if it doesn't run already
[17:44] <zyga> mvo: then we have the problem again
[17:44] <zyga> mvo: (which is interesting in fedora land for instance, where we don't start on boot)
[17:45] <mvo> zyga, pedronis: yes, for daemons we would add this dependency. true. it would be better to avoid it IMO but I don't see a way currently
[17:45] <mvo> (well, seccomp bpf would solve it for seccomp profiles only but that is not a general solution)
[17:45] <pedronis> well, isn't that the plan of having a profiles/current
[17:46] <zyga> mvo: one more idea is to laizly mount snaps if snap run talks to snapd
[17:46] <pedronis> then the dep is just changing that symlink early
[17:47] <pedronis> that I though was what we discussed the other day
[17:47] <jdstrand> ok, that was annoying. the power went out
[17:48] <mvo> pedronis: we did, to me its not fully clear yet if it solves the various cases. but I probably just have not thought enough about it. TBH I like the suggestion of snapd backup-of-state-and-profiles and restore that backup on revert more, at least its clearer in my mind how that would work and what the constrains are
[17:49] <mvo> zyga: if we put snapd into the snap run path, then yes, it is an interessing idea
[17:49] <mvo> zyga, pedronis: lets continue in the forum, I need to step out for some minutes and can only reply async
[17:51] <zyga> ok
[17:51]  * zyga is preparing for the event
[17:57] <mup> PR snapd#3398 opened: env: set XDG_DATA_DIRS for wayland et.al <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3398>
[18:24] <jdstrand> mvo: ok, I responded in the forum. ping me when you want to discuss more
[18:43] <mup> PR snapd#3396 closed: interfaces: add summary to each interface <Created by zyga> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3396>
[19:01] <mvo> jdstrand: thank you!
[19:21] <mup> PR snapd#3399 opened: many: add the interface command <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3399>
[19:22] <zyga> Chipaca: ^^
[19:31] <kyrofa> ogra_, are you still around?
[19:32] <Chipaca> zyga: could you review snapd#3369?
[19:32] <mup_> PR snapd#3369: many: make shell scripts shellcheck-clean <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3369>
[19:43] <zyga> Chipaca: yes
[19:54] <zyga> Chipaca: what's going on with GOPATH vs GOHOME?
[19:54] <cachio> zyga, do you know how long does it take to retry when it is downloading a snap?
[19:54] <Chipaca> zyga: GOHOME I made up
[19:54] <Chipaca> zyga: GOPATH is a PATH, ie a list
[19:55] <zyga> ah
[19:55] <Chipaca> zyga: we were using it wrong
[19:55] <zyga> right
[19:55] <Chipaca> zyga: so I either had to change all the $GOPATH to ${GOPATH%%:*}
[19:55] <Chipaca> or, what i did
[19:56] <Chipaca> (%% and not ## because in go the first element in the list is where new stuff goes)
[19:58] <zyga> Chipaca: done
[20:01] <zyga> Chipaca: thank you for the review, I tried to make it work well in all cases
[20:01] <zyga> Chipaca: question about tab completion, where can I test the tab completer returning not only the item but also the description?
[20:03] <cachio> Chipaca, do you know how long does it take to retry when it is downloading a snap?
[20:03] <zyga> cachio: we time out after some reasonable time (<< minute)
[20:04] <Chipaca> cachio: exponential, starting at 200ms
[20:04] <Chipaca> delay
[20:04] <Chipaca> no sorry starting at 100ms
[20:04] <Chipaca> and then 2.5× every time
[20:04] <Chipaca> cachio: it's in store/retry.go
[20:05] <cachio> Chipaca, ah, ok, thanks
[20:07] <Chipaca> zyga: anything you'd like changed, wrt your comments in the pr?
[20:08] <Chipaca> I need to repush anyway because of conflicts, so i can tweak something :-)
[20:09] <zyga> Chipaca: no, it is fine
[20:09] <zyga> thanks :-)
[20:09] <Chipaca> ok
[20:24] <Chipaca> zyga: the 32k limit on commandlines is rather dated, but it was bytes not lines of input
[20:24] <Chipaca> by-the-way :-p
[20:26] <zyga> Chipaca: yes, I know
[20:27] <zyga> Chipaca: but I think it's not dated, is it changed?
[20:28] <Chipaca> zyga: it's about 2M
[20:28] <pedronis> I think it's around 2M
[20:28] <pedronis> nowadays
[20:28] <Chipaca> zyga: unless you have a _lot_ of stuff in your environment
[20:30] <zyga> Chipaca: aha, I didn't know
[20:30]  * zyga works on slides
[20:39]  * Chipaca works on riffs
[21:05] <mup> PR snapd#3390 closed: tests: remove additional setup for docker on core <Created by fgimenez> <Merged by niemeyer> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3390>
[21:14] <morphis> niemeyer: problem on my end is that I lost the connection the spread-32, looks like I removed a bit too much
[21:15] <morphis> niemeyer: best is if I redo the cleanup on monday and give you a fresh instance to snapshot
[21:16] <morphis> niemeyer: lost the connection = it got dropped from .spread-reuse.yaml so I don't have the connection information anymore
[21:25] <mup> PR snapd#3369 closed: many: make shell scripts shellcheck-clean <Created by chipaca> <Merged by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3369>
[21:26] <Chipaca> niemeyer: ping
[21:26] <Chipaca> https://travis-ci.org/snapcore/snapd/builds/235777521?utm_source=github_status&utm_medium=notification
[21:26] <Chipaca> ^^ something is or was awry with spread/linode
[21:30] <niemeyer> Chipaca: Yo
[21:31] <Chipaca> niemeyer: just travis weirdness i hope
[21:31]  * zyga -> food
[21:42] <cachio> niemeyer, is it any way to run many times the same test with spread?
[21:43] <cachio> niemeyer, I mean, using the same node
[21:45] <niemeyer> Chipaca: Thanks, pretty strange indeed
[21:56] <Chipaca> zyga: thank you for pointing out the "git log --oneline" thing
[21:56] <Chipaca> zyga: it's looking better already (far from perfect still)
[22:04] <Chipaca> niemeyer: ok to restart that run?
[22:15] <mup> PR snapd#3400 opened: many: stop "snap refresh $x --channel invalid" from working <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3400>
[22:16] <niemeyer> cachio: Other than -reuse, there's no way to retry in a loop right now
[22:16] <niemeyer> Chipaca: Yeah, no much to do there
[22:17] <niemeyer> Chipaca: Something awkward seems to have happened.. hard to believe all allocations would fail at the same time silently
[22:17] <Chipaca> niemeyer: network hiccup?
[22:18] <niemeyer> Perhaps.. or something else made the process stop
[22:33] <niemeyer> cachio: Btw, we can easily extend spread to repeat the same test over and over until it fails
[22:34] <cachio> niemeyer, yes, I'll need that because otherwise I spend to much time retrying manually
[22:35] <cachio> niemeyer, I'll make the change here
[22:35] <cachio> niemeyer, most of the failures are very difficult to reproduce
[22:36] <niemeyer> cachio: Thanks, let me know if you need a hand on that
[22:38] <cachio> niemeyer, sure
[22:56] <mup> PR snapd#3400 closed: many: stop "snap refresh $x --channel invalid" from working <Created by chipaca> <Closed by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3400>
[23:29] <cachio> niemeyer, the change worked verywell
[23:30] <cachio> niemeyer, I am rexecuting 100 or until the test fails
[23:30] <cachio> niemeyer, i could reproduce an error by doing that
[23:31] <cachio> niemeyer, I am not sure if you are interested on add that change to the master, are you?


[07:23] <pungi_man> hii!!!
[10:35] <Jacky> 1
[10:43] <jo-erlend> 2
[10:58] <Jacky> Lol, my ba
[10:58] <Jacky> s/ba/bad
[10:58] <Jacky> That's me trying to switch channels on weechat :P
[11:42] <jo-erlend> :)
[17:28] <pavolzetor> hi, anybody knows how to set up spacing between rows in treeview?
[17:28] <pavolzetor> gtk
[18:45] <pavolzetor> I http://www.gtkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=55325&p=73285#p73285
[18:45] <pavolzetor> http://www.gtkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=55325&p=73285#p73285
[18:45] <pavolzetor> for more info
[18:46] <pavolzetor> i do not want to use Gbox, because it uses 2x more memory and is slower
[18:52] <JanC> pavolzetor: you might also try to ask in #gtk on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net)
[18:56] <pavolzetor> thanks
[18:58] <pavolzetor> I thought it will be easier, but it's not
[18:59] <JanC> or maybe ask on stackoverflow... (but I guess a Gtk-centric place might be better)
[18:59] <pavolzetor> okay, oftc, the room was empty
[18:59] <pavolzetor> I am going to try gtk+ on freenode
[19:00] <JanC> pavolzetor: eh, I meant #gtk on irc.gnome.org
[19:00] <JanC> eh #gtk+
[19:00] <JanC> sorry  :P
[19:01] <JanC> there are 160 people there  ;)
[19:02] <JanC> pavolzetor: isn't the default spacing between rows theme-defined though?
[19:05] <pavolzetor> I will give it a try
[19:05] <pavolzetor> you can specify spacing, but it just stretches rows
[19:05] <pavolzetor> I need spacing between rows
[19:07] <pavolzetor> thanks
[21:38] <pavolzetor> hi
[21:38] <pavolzetor> why if you run python script
[21:38] <pavolzetor> from /usr/bin
[21:38] <pavolzetor> it appends into sys.path '/usr/share/software-center'?
[21:44] <JanC> it does?
[21:46] <JanC> hm, seems like it adds a lot of stuff in there
[21:47] <JanC> but I don't see software-center in there
[21:48] <JanC> might depend on the Ubuntu version
[21:52] <JanC> might be because of *.pth files
[23:01] <pavolzetor> yes, it does
[23:01] <pavolzetor> i have created script
[23:02] <pavolzetor> in bin and it had modified path included


[03:02] <bubbly193> Ello, I've been having problems with bazaar on windows 8.1 64 bit.  All it is saying is that it has hit an internal bug.
[03:04] <bubbly193> Are there any known comparability issues with win8.1 64bit?


[08:04] <ricotz> hello, is it possible that someone restarts https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/ppa/+build/3302242 ?
[08:18] <wgrant> ricotz: It's not possible to retry a cancelled build.
[08:22] <ricotz> wgrant, ok, thanks
[08:23] <ricotz> wgrant, btw can you give me a list of ppa builders which have 24gb+ space?
[08:23] <ricotz> amd64 builders
[09:32] <dpm> hey all, could someone help me setting up translations exports for a project? I'm simply trying to set the field at https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-online-tour/extended-tour/+link-translations-branch to the branch at https://code.launchpad.net/~ya-bo-ng/ubuntu-online-tour/extended-tour and it's simply not taking it
[09:35] <czajkowski> hmmm
[09:36] <czajkowski> dpm: are you getting an oops
[09:37] <dpm> czajkowski, I did get a timeout at some point, but I think I've figured out it's because I don't have permissions
[09:37] <czajkowski> dpm: should it be a bzr url also ?
[09:37] <dpm> oddly enough, I can set the imports settings, but not the export settings
[09:37] <czajkowski> bzr branch lp:ubuntu-online-tour/extended-tour ?
[09:38] <dpm> I think it rather expects something like '~ya-bo-ng/ubuntu-online-tour/extended-tour'
[09:38] <dpm> but it only lets me enter '~dpm/ubuntu-online-tour/extended-tour'
[09:38] <dpm> so I guess it only shows me my own branches because I don't have permissions on the other branch
[12:04] <pmatulis> i've had 2 people tell me that merge proposal requests are not working properly (neverending spinning dial).  known issue?
[12:06] <czajkowski> pmatulis: let me gind out
[12:06] <czajkowski> pmatulis: do you have any examples?
[12:07] <pmatulis> czajkowski: i will forward you 2 emails i received
[12:07] <czajkowski> pmatulis: ok thanks
[12:11] <wgrant> pmatulis: Which browsers? Is this just happening today?
[12:11] <pmatulis> wgrant: i got 2 complaints yesterday.  one person tried multiple browsers
[12:13] <wgrant> pmatulis: Which people, which branches?
[12:21] <czajkowski> pmatulis: well?
[12:28] <pmatulis> czajkowski: i sent you an electronic mail message
[12:30] <czajkowski> pmatulis: ok will pastebin it to wgrant
[12:31] <pmatulis> czajkowski: t/y
[12:32] <czajkowski> np
[12:39] <wgrant> pmatulis: In the ubuntu-core-doc case the user needs to manually specify a target branch, since that package isn't in Ubuntu yet.
[12:39] <wgrant> pmatulis: The spinner stays forever due to a Launchpad bug, but it can be worked around by manually selecting a target.
[12:43] <pmatulis> wgrant: what package?
[12:44] <wgrant> pmatulis: ubuntu-core-doc
[12:44] <wgrant> It's not in Ubuntu yet, so there's no default branch.
[12:44] <wgrant> So the merge proposal target must be specified explicitly.
[12:45] <wgrant> Bug #961126
[12:47] <pmatulis> wgrant: well, he said it didn't work from the interface.  there, is there any other way other clicking 'Propose for merging' ?
[12:48] <pmatulis> wgrant: k, i see in this specific case there is a form to fill
[12:50] <pmatulis> btw, if someone has already proposed a merge but it results in 'needs fixing', after editing does he simply 'Request another review' or 'Resubmit proposal'?
[12:50] <wgrant> pmatulis: Generally don't do either.
[12:50] <wgrant> People tend to comment on the MP or poke on IRC and wait for the reviewer to change their vote.
[12:52] <pmatulis> wgrant: hmm, ok.  but to me, re-request is reasonable.  why is it there?
[12:53] <wgrant> pmatulis: "Request another review" is for asking for an additional review from someone else.
[12:54] <pmatulis> wgrant: ah
[12:54] <wgrant> "Resubmit proposal"... I don't think anybody is really sure why it's there. It's most often used if the MP was mistargeted, or occasionally if it's changed so radically that it should basically be reviewed from scratch.
[15:28] <joohoo340> Can someone help me with a problem I have, I am trying to find an easy way to send a link to another person who can
[15:29] <joohoo340> 't  install any software, so they can download the source for a generic project hosted on launch pad
[15:29] <joohoo340> a project that I am not hosting
[15:32] <tsimpson> if it's using the Launchpad code hosting, then they just need bzr and can run "bzr branch lp:<project>" (replacing <project>)
[15:33] <joohoo340> Is there another way in which the user doesn't have to install anything?
[15:35] <tsimpson> if the project chooses to publish a download file, that's one way
[15:35] <tsimpson> but they'd still need some way to build the project
[15:35] <tsimpson> or you could download the bzr branch, tar it up, and put it somewhere they can access
[15:36] <joohoo340> right now its not really for building the project just a little way to show that this is where I got my packages from
[15:36] <joohoo340> and here is the source
[15:36] <joohoo340> im thinking thats what i am going ot have to do now
[15:36] <joohoo340> get the source myself then tar it up that is
[15:37] <thelinuxer> czajkowski: here I am :)
[15:37] <czajkowski> thelinuxer: so to answer your question no  ther isn't
[15:37] <czajkowski> and if its been deleted there really isnt anything to look into now is there
[15:37] <thelinuxer> czajkowski: ok thanks
[15:38] <thelinuxer> but it would gr8 to have such information for accountability purposes
[15:39] <czajkowski> thelinuxer: locoteams usually are only trying to help their members tbh
[15:39] <joohoo340> tsimpson: thanks I thought I would have to do it but i had to see if there was a faster option.
[15:40] <thelinuxer> czajkowski: yes of course, and that's what is expected. It's when something wrong happens you want to know who did it. Anyways thanks a lot for your help
[15:41] <tsimpson> maybe it would be useful for LP to have a "download as .tar.gz" option on bazaar. or maybe code.
[18:21] <tedious> Hi, searched online a bit, but couldn't find an answer. - Am I able to see messages I sent to people through launchpad? (the +contactuser thing)
[18:23] <czajkowski> tedious: no afraid not
[18:24] <czajkowski> there is a bug on that though
[18:24] <tedious> Ah, thank you for the prompt reply.
[19:55] <dpb_> Hi there -- I created a small branch and do not have the "add source recipe" link on the branch page.  Is there something I need to do to enable it?
[19:57] <jonrafkind> it seems that old binary packages have a state of 'superseded' in the status column. can I delete packages programmatically and/or have them automatically deleted when they are in the superseded state?
[20:03] <maxb> jonrafkind: Why, just to economize on space?
[20:04] <jonrafkind> yes
[20:04] <maxb> dpb_: Is it a /+junk/ branch?
[20:04] <jonrafkind> it looks from some bug report I read that superseded packages are in fact deleted, they just show up in the history of the ppa
[20:06] <maxb> Well, not quite
[20:06] <maxb> "Deleted" == a human decided this needed to not be here
[20:07] <maxb> "Superseded" == a newer version caused this to no longer matter as a side-effect
[20:07] <jonrafkind> i just mean the binary packages cease to exist so they don't take up space
[20:07] <maxb> Superseded packages get removed from disk eventually, but not as quickly as actually Deleted ones
[20:07] <jonrafkind> what is it based on?
[20:08] <maxb> I think there are rules based on how many superseded packages for a source, and how long ago they were superseded
[20:08] <jonrafkind> i upload nightly packages and each set of packages takes up 400m, so ill run out of space in about 4 or 5 days
[20:09] <jonrafkind> do you think launchpad might remove superseded packages if it needs more space?
[20:10] <maxb> So based on https://code.launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive/daily/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=&field.series_filter=precise it seems to be keeping superseded packages for a day or two
[20:11] <maxb> I don't think it is smart enough to aggressively remove superseded packages for space
[20:11] <maxb> The simplest option is probably to just request more space
[20:11] <jonrafkind> ok if they are kept for a day or two I am probably in the clear
[20:11] <jonrafkind> ok, how do I request more space, through a bug report?
[20:11] <maxb> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
[20:15] <jonrafkind> is getting more space mostly a trivial thing?
[20:34] <dpb_> maxb: sorry, missed that.  No, it's on a private project though.
[20:34] <maxb> hmm
[20:35] <dpb_> other branches on the project do have the "add source recipe" link.  But I just created this branch, so I was wondering if I did something wrong in the process
[20:35] <maxb> What happens if you go to your branch page in a browser, then append /+new-recipe to the URL?
[20:36] <dpb_> trying
[20:37] <dpb_> maxb: I get the expected page, let me try to create it
[20:45] <dpb_> maxb: ok, so, um, you can't create recipes on private branches.  duh.  not sure why I didn't remember that.
[20:46] <maxb> huh
[20:46] <maxb> I wonder why
[20:46] <dpb_> maxb: that I don't know.  way it's always been (really wish that we could). :)
[20:46] <maxb> Oh, probably the builder machines don't have privileged access to read the private branches
[20:47] <dobey> maxb: the builder can't pull them
[20:47]  * dobey has been down this road plenty :)
[20:48]  * maxb retreats to the nice fluffy world of open source where everything is publically readable :-)
[20:48] <dobey> haha, nice joke :)
[20:49] <dpb_> thx maxb. :)
[21:44] <lifeless> kirkland: are you using firefox or chromium ?
[21:45] <kirkland> lifeless: chromium, where I'm getting the No Such Resource problem
[21:45] <lifeless> use firefox
[21:45] <lifeless> its not broken
[21:45] <kirkland> lifeless: but I have firefox open here too
[21:56] <lifeless> kirkland: did that work ?
[21:57] <kirkland> lifeless: ack
[21:57] <lifeless> kirkland: cool
[21:57] <lifeless> kirkland: it is technically a chromium bug, though we can safely avoid tickling it
[22:04] <kirkland> lifeless: cool -- is there a bug in Launchpad linking the two?  chromium/lp/soyuz?
[22:05] <poolie> o/ kirkland
[22:06] <kirkland> poolie: hiya!
[22:10] <lifeless> kirkland: https://launchpad.net/bugs/677270
[22:25] <kirkland> lifeless: thanks, subscribed
[22:26] <kirkland> lifeless: should that bug have a chromium task?
[22:30] <lifeless> kirkland: not really
[22:30] <lifeless> kirkland: there is, I think, a link to the chromium issue in the bug already
[22:30] <lifeless> kirkland: tasks make sense for different workitems related to one defect; there are two defects here
[22:31] <kirkland> lifeless: alrighty
[22:31] <lifeless> a) that we generate non-normal urls
[22:31] <lifeless> b) and that chromium normalises urls when it really shouldn't
[22:32] <lifeless> thus there should be two bugs
[22:34] <kirkland> lifeless: alrighty, thanks
[22:34] <kirkland> lifeless: I'll use firefox for this, then
[22:49] <kirkland> poolie: fyi, poked my buddy over at Google, your Sydney Opera House maps issue has been reported "upstream" :-)
[22:50] <poolie> yes, i reported it too
[22:50] <poolie> i'm not offended, just amused