[09:46] <godbyk> A quick heads-up: I just released the Dutch lucid-e1 manuals to the ubuntu-manual.org site and lulu.com.
[09:46] <godbyk> And with that, I'm off to bed.
[10:03] <daker> great
[10:03] <daker> good work
[11:08] <trijntje> godbyk, whohoo! Thats Great!
[11:11] <trijntje> Minor error on the website: When I choose "Nederlands" the label on the drop down menu reverts to "English" within a second, even though the download button still gives me the dutch pdf to download
[11:11] <daker> trijntje, i saw that
[11:13] <daker> i'll fix that
[11:15] <trijntje> ok, cool, thanks
[19:59] <godbyk> Hey, daker.
[19:59] <godbyk> Is the website still translatable via Launchpad?
[20:00] <daker> lemme see
[20:01] <godbyk> Hannie found some untranslated Dutch strings. If it's still translatable via Launchpad, I can point her there.
[20:05] <daker> godbyk, i reactivated the translations https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website
[20:06] <godbyk> daker: Cool. I'll forward that link to Hannie.
[20:06] <daker> sure
[20:22] <trijntje> by the way, everybody who is a member of the manual team can disable the translations on launchpad, is this a problem?
[20:23] <daker> godbyk, ^
[20:56] <godbyk> trijntje: Really? Hmm. I'll take a look at it.
[20:57] <trijntje> godbyk, yeah, I noticed it yesterday
[20:59] <godbyk> I'm not sure if it's possible to limit control of our translations or not (since the Ubuntu Manual team is an open team at the moment). Does anyone know?
[21:12] <Muscovy> I thought only the project owner/driver (not the same as those with branch write access) could change details.


[06:58] <ochosi> morning
[07:00] <Unit193> Hello.
[07:01]  * genii-around makes a fresh pot of coffee
[07:01] <ochosi> good idea
[08:57] <knome> hai.
[08:57] <knome> uoh
[09:39] <ochosi> where are all the u-studio guys? :)
[09:40] <knome> heh, no idea
[10:03] <knome> we should see if the proposed roadmap items are doable
[10:04] <knome> eg. i don't think "new panel plug in (applet)" is in the scope for xubuntu developers
[10:04] <knome> or, i don't know, but if the team is the same, it's not doable
[10:08] <ochosi> haven't looked at the roadmap lately
[10:13] <mr_pouit> especially since there are already several "monitor" plugins, more or less unmaintained
[10:13] <knome> mmh
[10:16] <john-> guys, is there a package that contains the default xfterm4 color scheme? Xubuntu's new scheme infers with almost every application I'm trying to use. (like mc, aptitude, but even nano)
[10:18] <mr_pouit> you can edit /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/Terminal/terminalrc and drop ColorPalette*
[10:18] <mr_pouit> (well, all color options actually)
[10:19] <john-> ty
[10:19] <ochosi> john-: we're reviewing our term-colors for the next release, would be great if you would participate (at least by giving your feedback or by testing)
[10:19] <john-> sure thing, I saw that point in the roadmap plan on the wiki
[10:19] <ochosi> ah ok
[10:19] <ochosi> just wanted to be sure to mention it
[10:20] <ochosi> there aren't that many users around here who use lots of term-apps
[10:20] <ochosi> i use irssi and vim, those two look ok
[10:20] <ochosi> (and man obviously :) )
[10:20] <john-> :)
[10:20] <ochosi> john-: i read you wanna help out with xfce?
[10:21] <john-> to me, terminal is a selling point in Linux, or even on a Mac. Okay, Windows got cmd, and powershell, but I still can't get myself to learn all the powershell applets, syntax, etc.
[10:21] <john-> yepp. I checked out the Xubuntu bugtracker first, but I figured it out if you import all the Debian packages at start anyway, helping XFCE would be better
[10:21] <ochosi> right, what areas were you thinking of?
[10:22] <john-> uhm sorting out the bugs (bugtracker), helping with bugs (bugfixing, see if I can fix some of them, propose patches that fix the problem, and won't introduce new ones)
[10:22] <ochosi> sounds good
[10:22] <john-> nothing *too* big at first, but something that would help the project
[10:22] <ochosi> xfce can definitely use your help
[10:22] <ochosi> and yeah, you're right, it's probably best to work with upstream
[10:23] <knome> +1
[10:23] <ochosi> although we could also use helping hands :)
[10:23] <ochosi> our maintenance load will increase with the next release (we'll have to maintain the gtk2-indicators ourselves)
[10:23] <knome> xubuntu benefits from fixing bugs in xfce, and if we didn't benefit from *all* fixed bugs, i'm still happy
[10:23] <knome> :)
[10:23] <john-> just tell me which area you need the help and I'll take a look
[10:23] <ochosi> mr_pouit: do you think it's realistic that we fix power-man to use a gtk2-indicator?
[10:24] <john-> as far as I saw, even sorting out the stupid reports would help a lot :))
[10:24] <ochosi> heh
[10:24] <ochosi> true
[10:24] <knome> john-, http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa/
[10:24] <mr_pouit> ochosi: nick touched a bit xfpm for 4.10, so maybe he cleaned it up (so then it might be feasible)
[10:24] <knome> john-, \o/
[10:24] <knome> err, mr_pouit ^ :D
[10:25] <john-> on it knome , ty!
[10:25] <knome> john-, there's other things too if you have more "appetite" for them, but otoh, that definitely is a good starting point :)
[10:26] <knome> madnick, ?
[10:33] <knome> "a way to save a xfce4 Panel config for using it when we add a new user"
[10:33] <knome> isn't that just backuping the panel preferences and copying to new user?
[10:33] <knome> or using skel
[10:52] <ochosi> mr_pouit: i dunno how far he really cleaned it up, i just remember him complaining about it a lot
[10:52] <knome> well, doesn't complaining a lot eventually make the code clean itself?
[10:54] <ochosi> bbl
[10:54] <astraljava> It's like cursing, it takes away the pain. :)
[10:58] <knome> ochosi went complaining? oh my :)
[11:08] <madnick> knome: ?
[11:09] <knome> madnick, you still up to updating the lightdm and plymouth themes? :)
[11:09] <madnick> yes
[11:09] <knome> ok, so what about maintaining the lightdm gtk-greeter?
[11:10] <madnick> the old one?
[11:10] <madnick> original*
[11:10] <knome> yeah, many people still use it
[11:11] <knome> i don't think it needs much updating, just keeping it in one piece :P
[11:11] <madnick> is the current maintainer giving up?
[11:11] <knome> ask mr_pouit for details :)
[11:12] <madnick> oh he is the maintainer
[12:46] <andrzejr> Guys, just wanted to let you know that xfce4-panel optionally uses some features from libwnck 2.31.0.
[12:47] <andrzejr> if you look at the second screenshot at http://www.webupd8.org/2012/05/install-xfce-410-in-xubuntu-1204.html the workspace switcher has a distorted aspect ratio.
[12:48] <andrzejr> the new libwnck version fixes it (the panel has to be rebuilt in order to make use of it)
[13:11] <ochosi> andrzejr: oh yes, i noticed that before (i mean the problem, not the solution)
[13:11] <ochosi> andrzejr: thanks for the heads-up!
[13:13] <ochosi> mr_pouit: did you notice you were downgraded to a "xubuntu contributor" by webupd8? :D
[13:14] <baizon> =)
[13:21] <ochosi> ahoi bluesabre
[13:22] <bluesabre> hey, hows it going?
[13:22] <ochosi> good good, a bit busy, but generally fine
[13:22] <ochosi> on your end?
[13:22] <bluesabre> pretty slow, but not too bad
[13:22] <ochosi> good
[13:23] <bluesabre> did you get some feedback on blackbird?
[13:24] <ochosi> no, nothing so far :]
[13:25] <ochosi> just looking at your xfconf-query code
[13:25] <bluesabre> I think it looks pretty good.  Just a bit too dark for me (been spoiled by bluebird)
[13:25] <ochosi> guess calling the shell is rather costly
[13:25] <ochosi> ah, you tried it?
[13:25] <ochosi> nice
[13:25] <bluesabre> For a little while
[13:26] <ochosi> it still has quite a few quirks, mostly treeviews etc
[13:26] <ochosi> but yeah, i wanted to try something really dark
[13:26] <bluesabre> I've been working on the vala port for the kso.  m8t pointed me in a few directions for getting the valas with xfconf in c/vala
[13:26] <bluesabre> *values
[13:26] <ochosi> right, does it look manageable?
[13:27] <bluesabre> yeah, should have something functional this week
[13:27] <ochosi> cool
[13:27] <ochosi> i guess some of the plugins could also serve as examples for querying xfconf
[13:27] <bluesabre> yeah
[13:28] <ochosi> have you tried adding buttons like notifyd does?
[13:29] <bluesabre> I haven't.  What kind of functionality would we use buttons for?  Go to keyboard shortcuts?
[13:31] <ochosi> yeah, i'd add an edit-button to each header that takes you directly to the corresponding settings-window
[13:31] <bluesabre> That's a good idea
[13:31] <ochosi> because the shortcuts are split up in different dialogs
[13:32] <ochosi> so users would have to dig to find a specific setting
[13:32] <bluesabre> true
[13:32] <bluesabre> I'll add that in.
[13:32] <ochosi> theoretically we could also let them assign keys from the overlay, but that's kinda duplicating...
[13:33] <bluesabre> that might be more difficult.  The overlay should probably only show when holding the launcher/modifier key, right?
[13:33] <ochosi> yes, that was the original plan
[13:40] <mr_pouit> ochosi: yeah, I know, but I didn't feel pedantic enough to tell them (a developer is a contributor after all :p)
[13:44] <ochosi> mr_pouit: say, do you have a clue how we could call a programm when the super-key is held down for e.g. 2 seconds minimum?
[13:44] <ochosi> usually it's either you press the shortcut, or you don't
[13:44] <bluesabre> ochosi: I was thinking of having the program start as a minimal mode with a timer, then if the key is still held down, show the interface.
[13:45] <bluesabre> (assuming you're talking about the kso)
[13:45] <ochosi> yup, i am :)
[13:45] <bluesabre> though there might be a better way :D
[13:45] <ochosi> yeah, i was wondering about that
[13:46] <ochosi> whether there is something in X or xfce we can use instead of running our own little timer
[13:46] <bluesabre> and that would be good, because I can detect press and release events, but I have no idea how to tell if something is already pressed when the program starts
[13:46] <ochosi> just imagine someone hits the super-key twice exactly in the right interval for the timer by accident :p
[13:47] <bluesabre> good point
[13:47] <ochosi> well, you could poll for the shortcut more often than twice (beginning and end)
[13:47] <bluesabre> yeah
[13:47] <ochosi> i have no clue whether that would create much overhead with people using the super key a lot
[13:48] <bluesabre> still not sure how to tell button states.  I don't think its doable in python-gi, but probably with vala or c
[13:48] <ochosi> yeah, that's why i thought i'd start asking around
[13:56] <mr_pouit> you can't do that with xfce4-settings afaik (it's only here for kbd shortcuts, so it only detects keypresses)
[13:57] <mr_pouit> you'll have to do like xfce4-volumed I guess, session-autostart and grab the key youself
[13:57] <mr_pouit> +r
[14:04] <ochosi> ah right
[14:04] <ochosi> volumed is a good place to look
[14:05] <ochosi> (although jannis didn't really praise the code last time we talked about that)
[14:06] <mr_pouit> (yeah, simply close your eyes when you see the list of keys grabbed)
[14:06] <bluesabre> ok
[14:06] <mr_pouit> e.g. it grabs XF86AudioRaiseVolume plus all possible modifiers, by hand: http://git.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-volumed/tree/src/xvd_keys.c#n84
[14:09] <ochosi> uargh
[14:09] <ochosi> did you _have to_ link directly to the ugliest section? :}
[14:12] <bluesabre> haha
[14:59] <GridCube> :/
[14:59] <GridCube> the "brainstorming" passed along me and i didnt even noticed it
[14:59] <GridCube> can we really, really, really have schudeled meetings please?
[15:02] <ochosi> did you have any ideas you would've wanted to put in the roadmap?
[15:05] <knome> GridCube, feel free to add your ideas to the brainstorming now, but do it ASAP
[15:05] <knome> GridCube, i'm going to run votes at the end of this week (or start of next)
[15:06] <knome> GridCube, and i've already called for assignees too, so people are probably looking already
[15:06] <GridCube> yes i know thats why i said it
[15:06] <GridCube> :(
[15:07] <GridCube> i wanted to propose use of arandr and cheese as pre-installed programs
[15:07] <knome> please do it now – technically, the roadmap has been open for submissions since i created that page, so longer than it was officially on
[15:08] <GridCube> can i add it as a late entry box and leave it there to be considered with a maybe?
[15:08] <knome> nah, just add it to the regular table
[15:08] <ochosi> +1
[15:08] <GridCube> i know is that the mail got lost
[15:08] <knome> we haven't started "considering" yet
[15:08] <knome> that's what we reserved this week for
[15:09]  * knome is investigating how the launchpad polls work
[15:09] <ochosi> ah, polls
[15:09] <ochosi> good idea
[15:09] <ochosi> was wondering how we'd do it
[15:09] <knome> hehe
[15:09] <knome> yeah, you know, that's why i set the test poll today for ~sp :P
[15:09] <knome> so we can see how that looks like
[15:10] <ochosi> knome: stuff like "re-think panels", would you put that as a separate work-item? i didn't yet because it's something we _should_ do every cycle anyway...
[15:10] <knome> no, that doesn't really need a blueprint
[15:10] <knome> you got to remember the items on the list are blueprints, which can contain a lot of work items and bugs that are attached
[15:11] <knome> so it doesn't make sense to add every little thing to the list, just add those little things as work items
[15:11] <ochosi> yeah
[15:11] <ochosi> i saw you haven't merged the "appearance-improvements" yet
[15:11] <knome> no, not yet
[15:11] <ochosi> sorry, i also didn't get round to it
[15:11] <GridCube> done
[15:11] <knome> GridCube, thanks :)
[15:12] <knome> so...
[15:12] <knome> who's going to volunteer as an assignee for the application blueprints?
[15:12] <ochosi> pff :)
[15:13]  * ochosi hides
[15:13] <knome> the monitor management item (as well as the apt-offline item) is merely a decision-thing
[15:13] <knome> no need for huge comparisons, or even assignees
[15:14] <ochosi> you mean whether we throw one of the monitor-plugins into the panel by default?
[15:14] <ochosi> what's "Add optimum partitioning option to install options" ?
[15:14] <knome> no, i mean seeding arandr/grandr
[15:14] <knome> i've no idea
[15:14] <knome> i'm thinking it might mean that somebody wants the installation to calculate something
[15:14] <knome> or just propose 10GB / and rest as /home, if HDD space >40GB
[15:14] <ochosi> yeah, but that's completely out of our hands anyway
[15:14] <knome> or sth...
[15:15] <knome> well, i suppose we could affect that, but i'm not sure how useful that is
[15:15] <ochosi> dvd support is an interesting proposal
[15:15] <knome> for majority of people, installing to one partition is completely fine, even makes sense
[15:15] <knome> aren't we seeding *something* with the package already?
[15:15] <knome> and libdvdcss...
[15:16] <ochosi> are we?
[15:16] <ochosi> i'm not sure
[15:16] <knome> i thought there was going to be something like the flashplugin-nonfree-installer
[15:16] <ochosi> if we are, then we can delete that item
[15:16] <knome> so libdvdcss would be downloaded automatically
[15:16] <knome> (currently you need to run a bash script from /etc/docs or sth)
[15:16] <ochosi> anyway, i think that we should make it easier to install the restricted extras via ubiquity
[15:16] <ochosi> currently people can only decide to install mp3 codecs
[15:17] <knome> yeah. i'm wondering why the mp3 -codecs appear there, but not the -extras
[15:17] <knome> mm-hmm
[15:17] <ochosi> instead they should be able to install restricted extras
[15:17] <ochosi> that's what most want anyway
[15:17] <knome> yup, that makes sense
[15:17] <ochosi> question is: do we have anyone who can take on this task
[15:17] <ochosi> astraljava maybe?
[15:17] <knome> well, astraljava worked with ubiquity the last cycle
[15:17] <knome> and i'm sure we'd get help from stgraber most probably anyway
[15:18] <ochosi> wow, lubuntu-software center is really light
[15:18] <ochosi> ~1mb
[15:19] <knome> mmh, btw, i realized one day
[15:19] <knome> i want to keep synaptic, because i *really* prefer it to any other package manager i've seen
[15:19] <knome> but i don't use it pretty much at all anyway, i'm just using apt-get
[15:19] <knome> (and apt-cache)
[15:20] <ochosi> i'm not sure keeping synaptic is a consistent choice
[15:20] <ochosi> i mean with the general direction of the distro
[15:20] <knome> no, probably not
[15:20] <ochosi> personally i think it's overly complicated for newbies
[15:20] <ochosi> and i use it only sometimes
[15:20] <knome> imo it's really simple...
[15:20] <ochosi> but it's not hard for me to install it
[15:20] <knome> just type your search, then install
[15:20] <knome> but...
[15:20] <astraljava> ochosi: knome: I'm sorry, what exactly? I haven't looked at the blueprints at all, yet.
[15:21] <knome> astraljava, hehe, well, please do look at them this week, and set yourself as assignee to a few ;)
[15:21] <ochosi> astraljava: just the "random" idea of throwing an option to install xubuntu-restricted-extras into ubiquity-installer
[15:21] <knome> astraljava, we were discussing the option to offer installing -restricted-extras instead of just the mp3 codecs
[15:21] <knome> astraljava, -> Analyze and optimize boot times
[15:22] <knome> astraljava, i'm waiting for you to pick that up
[15:22] <knome> :)
[15:22] <astraljava> ochosi: Ahh... yes, I should be able to take that. I need to work on the ubiquity tasks anyway.
[15:22] <bluesabre> +1 for lubuntu-software-center
[15:22] <ochosi> knome: take a look at lubuntu-software center please. it's not too bad. if we get a chance to work on it with them, it might be ok instead of USC
[15:22] <bluesabre> never used it before you guys just mentioned it, but its nice
[15:22] <astraljava> knome: Well, sure, I'm interested about that as well.
[15:23] <knome> astraljava, yeah, me too, but i'm not setting me as an assignee before somebody with technical skills is on it.
[15:24] <ochosi> bluesabre: it does seem to have some flaws, like not really showing all results...
[15:24] <knome> ochosi, the preferences -dialog is a bit confusing, with no descriptions
[15:24] <knome> ochosi, and is that a custom widget??
[15:25] <ochosi> knome: which one?
[15:25] <knome> ochosi, the on/off
[15:25] <knome> ochosi, in preferences
[15:25] <ochosi> knome: no, that's the gtk-switch. it's not themed correctly with greybird as it is in 12.04, patch has been in git for a while already
[15:25] <knome> ok
[15:25] <ochosi> it's a new gtk3 widget
[15:26] <knome> astraljava, well i just removed you from the "app sets" ;)
[15:26] <astraljava> I noticed. Why?
[15:26] <knome> well, i'm not sure if we will run that.
[15:26] <knome> but yeah, feel free to be the assignee
[15:26] <astraljava> Yep.
[15:26] <knome> just be ready for the situation where you have less work than expected
[15:26] <knome> OMG!!
[15:26] <ochosi> why?
[15:26] <ochosi> i mean why wouldn't we want the app-sets?
[15:27] <knome> ochosi, well, what's the status of the a11y set?
[15:27] <bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, it also has some issues with hovering certain results
[15:27] <knome> ochosi, orca is not working? we don't have anybody to test the a11y?
[15:28] <ochosi> yeah, but "pure" xfce is a valid app-set as well and good enough to test whether we can get a11y together
[15:28] <knome> ochosi, there are a few things that make me uncertain if we are ready to ship the a11y set
[15:28] <ochosi> maybe not yet, but i think it's ok to test app sets one by one
[15:28] <knome> well yeah, but i'm not sure if i want to introduce yet an another screen to the installer just for the xfce-only set
[15:29] <knome> i mean, i'm afraid many people will select that
[15:29] <knome> *especially* if we say it's only for advanced users
[15:29] <knome> people then think "YAAAAAHHH i'm up for it!"
[15:29] <knome> then they join #xubuntu because the system is borked
[15:29] <knome> and the xubuntu default theme isn't installed
[15:29] <knome> and everything looks bad
[15:29] <ochosi> well, how prominent we make that choice is totally up to us
[15:30] <bluesabre> knome, you are very familiar with the 'advanced' users it seems
[15:30] <bluesabre> :D
[15:30] <knome> bluesabre, well, i'm familiar with *people*
[15:30] <knome> that's how people are
[15:30] <bluesabre> true
[15:30] <knome> "ooh, that's for experts only - if i use that, i'm better than the others"
[15:31] <knome> and with this kind of options, they are completely in problems
[15:31] <knome> is installing "xfce-only" possible with alternative already?
[15:31] <knome> or should we enable it there only?
[15:31] <GridCube> ooh, it just came to me, the thunar bug should be fixed on 12.10 because of 4.10
[15:32] <GridCube> and thats why we are going to keep having it on all the LTS for over 2 years :D
[15:32] <knome> mm-hmm.
[15:32] <knome> generally, i tend to tell people the normal xubuntu releases are quite stable too, so installing them shouldn't be any problem
[15:32] <ochosi> GridCube: what thunar-bug?
[15:32] <knome> ochosi, slow startup?
[15:33] <GridCube> yes
[15:33] <knome> is there any other bugs worth mentioning?
[15:33] <GridCube> that are anoying and always happening?
[15:33] <knome> well, any bugs
[15:34] <GridCube> just that one and the plugin indicator not respawining properly one
[15:34] <GridCube> those happens all the time
[15:34] <knome> plugin indicator? :)
[15:34] <GridCube> yes, the one that has the conectivity/sound/mail icons
[15:35] <GridCube> if you close it, it will restart, but only with the network icon
[15:35] <GridCube> no sound or mail
[15:35] <knome> ah
[15:35] <knome> i was referring to thunar bugs ;)
[15:35] <ochosi> GridCube: close == remove from panel?
[15:35] <GridCube> ochosi: yes
[15:36] <ochosi> GridCube: if yes, then that's expected. sound and mail don't have systray fallbacks
[15:36] <ochosi> GridCube: so if you remove the indicator plugin, the indicators aren't there anymore (sounds logical, doesn't it? :) )
[15:36] <GridCube> welp then the plugin indicator should come back for no reason
[15:36] <ochosi> why should something come back when you remove it?
[15:37] <GridCube> i dont know
[15:37] <GridCube> it does
[15:37] <ochosi> it's only nm-applet that "returns"
[15:37] <ochosi> because it also has a systray-mode
[15:37] <GridCube> well yes
[15:37] <ochosi> so if you remove the indicator, it respawns as a systray
[15:37] <ochosi> end of story
[15:37] <GridCube> well, thats wrong,
[15:37] <GridCube> because its not called "nm-applet", in the panle
[15:37] <ochosi> why would a fallback mode be wrong?
[15:38] <GridCube> is called Plugin Indicator
[15:38] <ochosi> oh man...
[15:38] <knome> ochosi, the fallback mode sounds wrong
[15:38] <GridCube> and people want their soundcontrol back
[15:38] <ochosi> the indicator-plugin currently holds _all_ indicators you have installed on your system
[15:38] <ochosi> it's a single plugin
[15:38] <GridCube> and they dont have it
[15:38] <ochosi> knome: why?
[15:38] <GridCube> well, is not working as it should
[15:39] <knome> ochosi, i mean, if you have javascript, you see the enhanced page -> if you disable, you have the regular page -> if you re-enable, you still have regular ??
[15:39] <knome> ochosi, i mean, re-enabling the indicator area should have a "hook" or system call or anything that tells the apps that it is available again
[15:40] <ochosi> knome: i have no clue what you're talking about cause it works exactly like that (and like you said you would expect it should work) here
[15:40] <ochosi> knome: indicators > disable > systray > enable > indicators
[15:41] <knome> ochosi, do you realize that doesn't work for GridCube then? ;)
[15:41] <GridCube> ochosi: some programs open indicators on the plugin indicator, most others dont, so in other to close the program you do right clic>close, but on the plugin indicator that means killing the plugin indicator, you do that unnoticing,then the Plugin indicator respawns, but theres only a network icon on it, no sound no mail, how is that correct?
[15:41] <GridCube> or expected?
[15:41] <GridCube> i think is wrong and annoying
[15:42] <ochosi> GridCube: well there are the two concepts of systray and indicators. if you only want one of them, remove the other one from the panel
[15:42] <ochosi> knome: i don't think you understood GridCube's problem ;)
[15:43] <knome> ochosi, that's possible too ;)
[15:43] <ochosi> hehe
[15:43] <ochosi> GridCube: i agree that they're inconsistent, but there's not much we can do about that (other than patch all panel-plugins or not use indicators)
[15:43] <GridCube> ok
[15:43] <ochosi> we decided to have the indicators for good reasons though
[15:44] <GridCube> yes and i like them
[15:44] <GridCube> but they need to be consistent
[15:44] <ochosi> there are upstream (xfce) plans to rework that plugin
[15:44] <ochosi> but i think that'll take more time
[15:44] <GridCube> if it closes it: 1) should not come back, or 2) everything should come bacl
[15:45] <ochosi> you haven't understood 1) it seems
[15:45] <ochosi> it's not the indicator-plugin that comes back. it's nm-applet
[15:45] <ochosi> that's why it comes back "incomplete"
[15:45] <ochosi> all your indicators are gone when you remove the plugin
[15:45] <ochosi> ok, i gotta go
[15:45] <ochosi> seeya
[15:45] <knome> hehe
[15:45] <knome> see you...
[15:46] <GridCube> yes, but you dont seem to understand that it doesnt come back as nm-applet, it comes back as indicator plugin
[15:46] <GridCube> :) good luck ochosi
[15:46] <knome> wb micahg :)
[15:47] <knome> micahg, have any insight on apt-offline?
[15:51] <micahg> knome: hi, and no
[15:51] <knome> ok :)
[16:44] <micahg> FTR, I haven't looked at any of the Xubuntu blueprints yet
[17:08] <knome> micahg, time to do that then! :)
[17:09] <micahg> knome: not this week probably
[17:09] <knome> micahg, we're going to approve at the end of week or beginning of next, so...
[17:10] <knome> anyway, i'm off for a few hours at least. see you later!
[17:10] <micahg> knome: meh, I have to catch up on work this week
[17:29] <bluesabre> knome: I noticed that "Add DVD support" is on the blueprint as a possibility, as well as possibly moving to a different media player.  Wouldn't VLC solve both problems?
[17:33] <bluesabre> knome: nvm, I misread that it is "add dvd support to xubuntu-restricted-extras"
[19:45] <knome> bluesabre, vlc is pretty much ruled out anyway, as it uses Qt
[19:46] <bluesabre> That's true.  Audience seems pretty promising (from the limited testing I've done of it)
[19:49] <Unit193> http://ubottu.com/ljl/apt/?repo=Oneiric&arch=i386&package=vlc&have=xubuntu-desktop  I don't even remember installing all that.
[19:50] <bluesabre> wowza
[19:55] <Unit193> It's about 35M all in all.
[19:58] <knome> that's bad, that's not the worst thing
[22:15] <ochosi> hi everyone


[09:08] <Montresor> https://www.cleveland.com/open/2020/02/ohio-senate-urges-congress-to-make-daylight-saving-time-year-round.html not a whole lot of updates on that matter.


[21:41]  * wise_crypt is away: sleeping
[21:46]  * wise_crypt is back (gone 00:05:37)
[21:47]  * wise_crypt is away:
[21:52] <nhandler> wise_crypt: Can you please disable that away script?