[00:01] <wizardslovak_> its much faster to use shell then gui
[00:01] <wizardslovak_> in gui i prefer kde
[00:02] <jmarsden> BTW if you want to "go for it", installing Ubuntu Server on the old Celeron machine from CD should only take you 30 minutes or so... and yes, I find the shell is more powerful than a GUI for many tasks... once you know it!
[00:07] <wizardslovak_> i am trying to unrar .rar file but i am getting "command not found" error
[00:10] <wizardslovak_> i installed rar with apt-get but still "command not found"
[00:10] <jmarsden> What exactly are you typing?
[00:10] <wizardslovak_> sudo unrar e file.rar
[00:11] <jmarsden> You shouldn't need sudo for that... and... did you install unrar?  rar and unrar are different things.    sudo apt-get install unrar   # should work
[00:11] <wizardslovak_> ooo i did "apt-get install rar
[00:12] <jmarsden> Try  sudo apt-get install unrar-free
[00:12] <wizardslovak_> ok now it works
[00:12] <jmarsden> Good :)
[00:12] <wizardslovak_> "apt-get install unrar" and it works
[00:13] <jmarsden> BTW rar is not a common archive format in the Unix/Linux world, it is more common to use tar.gz or tar.bz2 ; .rar is more common under Windows.
[00:14] <wizardslovak_> ok done
[00:14] <wizardslovak_> now is there command to burn .iso into cd
[00:16] <jmarsden> Yes... more than one... I use wodim  so you can sudo apt-get-install wodim
[00:17] <wizardslovak_> ok got it
[00:19] <wizardslovak_> what is command for it?
[00:21] <jmarsden> man wodim will get you the man page :)  Try just     wodim somefile.iso   # to burn an ISO to a CD-R
[00:23] <wizardslovak_> "wodim file.iso " ??
[00:24] <jmarsden> sure.  if your .iso file is called file.iso, type in the command     wodim file.iso
[00:24] <jmarsden> If it is called junk.iso, type in    wodim junk.iso   :)
[00:24] <wizardslovak_> actually i am trying to burn ubuntu server
[00:25] <wizardslovak_> this is faaaaaaaaaaaaast
[00:25] <jmarsden> OK, so type in   wodim  ubuntu-8.10-server-i386.iso
[00:26] <wizardslovak_> much faster then using gui software for it
[00:27] <jmarsden> Yes.  BTW, you might want to read http://tldp.org/LDP/intro-linux/html/intro-linux.html and  http://rute.2038bug.com  for some general Linux and command line learning.
[00:28] <wizardslovak_> thx man
[00:28] <jmarsden> No problem.
[00:29] <wizardslovak_> i am actually writing new command to my txt file so like tht i wont forget commands i already should know ;)
[00:29] <wizardslovak_> can i add you as freind or something here?
[00:30] <jmarsden> There's no real concept of "friend" on IRC in terms of telling the IRC client software that, that I know of.  It all depends on your client.  Xchat has a "Friends list" you can add me to if you want :)
[00:33] <wizardslovak_> xchat? i dont have it i think
[00:34] <jmarsden> wizardslovak_: Konversation may have a similar thing, I'm just not familiar with it.
[00:35] <wizardslovak_> well ill be coming here anyways
[00:35] <jmarsden> OK.  Have fun installing Ubuntu Server :)
[00:35] <wizardslovak_> heheh
[00:35] <wizardslovak_> so what os u using?
[00:36] <jmarsden> Right now Ubuntu 8.10 64bit, with Jaunty in a VM and Debian in another VM and Hardy Server in yet another VM :)
[00:36] <wizardslovak_> lol
[00:36] <wizardslovak_> i have dual core cpu and actually i never tried 64bit
[00:36] <wizardslovak_> is it better then 32?
[00:37] <jmarsden> I love it... I got a cheap desktop with an E5200 dualcore CPU and 8Gb RAM, and ... I can run lots of VMs :)
[00:37] <wizardslovak_> u use  vmware or vbox?
[00:38] <jmarsden> virtualbox-ose
[00:38] <wizardslovak_> be right back
[00:40] <dug_> yeah i got a quad-core server with 8gigs, trying to get some virtual machines set up using vmbuilder (command line instead of gui)
[00:42] <wizardslovak_> i got dual core with 4gbs and works pefrect
[00:42] <jmarsden> dug_: If you have any issues, ask in #ubuntu-virt and the folks there can probably help you out.  Nice to have a CPU that can do KVM... I just couldn't justify the extra $100 for an E8400 over the E5200 when I bought this hardware...
[00:42] <wizardslovak_> i paid $300 for this laptop lol
[00:43] <jmarsden> Sounds like a good deal.  Did the Server CD burn OK?  Are you installing on the old Celeron PC now?? :)
[00:44] <wizardslovak_> not yet
[00:44] <wizardslovak_> server cd is ok , i did cd check in vbox and it passed
[00:44] <wizardslovak_> ;)
[00:58] <mat1211> How should I mount a drive with an ext3 fs?
[00:59] <mat1211> also, why didn't the driver change when I typed fdisk -l? I changed the fs :P
[01:10] <andresmujica1> hmmm just found that ubuntu doesn´t support acl over nfs4... :(
[01:23] <mat1211> If I change the fs of the entire harddrive instead of one partition will anything bad happen? :P and also, how do I repartition it with just a single partition.
[01:23] <twb> mat1211: hard drives normally do not have filesystems directly, only on their partitions.
[01:24] <twb> e.g. /dev/sda is not normally a filesystem
[01:24] <mat1211> how do I partition a harddrive then?
[01:24] <twb> Ubuntu will happily put a filesystem on sda and mount it, but other OSes might balk
[01:25] <twb> As I said yesterday, you can partition a drive using gparted, cfdisk, parted, sfdisk, or some other partitioning tool
[01:25] <mat1211> cause I reformated a harddrive with ext3, but when I type fdisk -l it still says fat, I was thinking of just making one partition that is the full drive.
[01:25] <mat1211> in terminal as well?
[01:25] <twb> fdisk reports what is in the partition table, which might be lies
[01:26] <mat1211> cause this thing has no screen or anything laugh
[01:26] <twb> Try using cfdisk to change the partition's type to 82 (ext)
[01:26] <mat1211> so I won't be able to do any gui things
[01:27] <twb> Don't use fdisk unless you know EXACTLY what you're doing, it is for experts.  Prefer cfdisk.
[01:27] <twb> fdisk will happily make partitions that other OSes won't like
[01:28] <mat1211> what is the syntax for cfdisk, it said couldn't open drive when I typed it.
[01:28] <twb> sudo cfdisk /dev/sdb
[01:28] <twb> Manipulating disks at a low level requies root access (or, possibly, to be in the "disk" group).
[01:29] <mat1211> hmmm
[01:29] <mat1211> how would I go about deleting a partition? it still says sdb1 is there, but I'm sure I deleted it with mkfs.
[01:30] <twb> mkfs cannot delete or create partitions.
[01:30] <twb> mkfs only changes what filesystem is on a partition.
[01:31] <twb> To delete a partition you would open the disk's partition table with cfdisk /dev/sdb, then select tha appropriate partition and choose "delete"
[01:31] <mat1211> strange, when I type stuff it still says sdb1 is still there, but at the same time when I enter commands having to do with it, it doesn't exist.
[01:31] <twb> You then need to write the partition table by choosing "write"
[01:31] <mat1211> hold on, I'll try something.
[01:32] <twb> A partition "exists" according to the kernel if it is listed in /proc/partitions.  There may or may not be a device node for it in /dev, which is a separate issue.  Both SHOULD be updated automatically on a modern system such as 8.04.
[01:33] <mat1211> it didn't work, lol
[01:33] <mat1211> is there a way to force it to update these things?
[01:34] <mat1211> because in things such as fdisk -l and cfdisk, I see that a partition is listed, but when I try and interact with them, nothing.
[01:35] <mat1211> ah, there we go
[01:35] <andresmujica> partprobe
[01:36] <andresmujica> reloads partition table in kernel
[01:36] <andresmujica> with parted is possible too, and with echo something > /proc/..... don't recall the rest..
[01:49] <mat1211> ah, also, how do I change the extention of a file? I have an incomplete rar archive, and the extention is .rar.filepart.  How do I remove the .filepart?
[01:51] <PhotoJim> mat1211: you just rename the file... but since it's incomplete, that's not likely to be of much benefit.
[01:51] <mat1211> it still works.
[01:52] <mat1211> do I just type sudo rename to do that? lol
[01:52] <PhotoJim> if you're using a shell, you just use the mv command that usually moves files.
[01:52] <PhotoJim> but if you move it to the same place with a different name... it works as rename.
[01:52] <PhotoJim> mv oldname.txt newname.txt
[01:52] <PhotoJim> you may or may not need to use sudo depending on the read/write permissions
[01:55] <mat1211> ah, that's different, but thank you.
[01:56] <PhotoJim> it's slightly counterintuitive but one gets used to these things :)
[01:59] <Iceman_B|SSH> PhotoJim: I still wonder why there isnt a seperate "ren" command ._.
[02:00] <ScottK> What would that do that mv doesn't?
[02:00] <Iceman_B|SSH> be not counter-intuitive?
[02:01] <PhotoJim> Iceman_B|SSH: you could just make a softlink called "ren" and link it to "mv" :)
[02:02] <mat1211> softlink? right... strange.
[02:02] <mat1211> lol
[02:03] <Iceman_B|SSH> lol, I hadnt thought about that
[02:04] <mat1211> how would you set that up?
[02:04] <Iceman_B|SSH> so would that be "touch red" and then make a symlink from ren to mv ?
[02:04] <Iceman_B|SSH> *ren
[02:04] <chaverma> i'd like to set /etc/ssh/ssh_config to the default.  where can i find the default file?
[02:05] <PhotoJim> Iceman_B|SSH: no, you don't "touch" it first.  that creates an empty traditional file.  symlinks are a different type of file that work basically like a pointer to another file.
[02:08] <Iceman_B|SSH> I see. so there is no need to create an empty file, just, directly create the link itself ?
[02:08] <ScottK> Yes
[02:08] <ScottK> man ln for details.
[02:08] <PhotoJim> Correct.
[02:09] <mat1211> what is the dir for the mv command, and how would it be a file?
[02:09] <PhotoJim> "whereis mv" will tell you.
[02:09] <PhotoJim> I'm not sure how to answer the second half of your question.
[02:09] <ScottK> which mv works too
[02:10] <Iceman_B|SSH> wow. I didnt know about whereis, I always try find and locate
[02:10] <Iceman_B|SSH> but I cant get them to work the way I want to
[02:11] <chaverma> yeah, find and locate are kind of Big Hammers for a small thing like finding binaries
[02:12] <ScottK> zul: Did we make libmysqlclient-dev go NBS on purpose.  It has a lot of reverse build-deps: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/libmysqlclient-dev
[02:12] <twb> There *is* a rename(1) command, intended to do pattern-based bulk renaming.
[02:12] <twb> e.g. instead of for i in ?.jpg; do mv $i 0$i.jpg; done
[02:12] <PhotoJim> so there is.
[02:13] <twb> I haven't actually used it myself because I'm pretty proficient at sh.
[02:33] <dug_> well vmware is about 800 times easier to install than kvm/vmbuilder :)
[02:34] <dug_> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VMware/Server/AMD64
[03:06] <twb> I don't know about vmbuilder, but kvm is MUCH easier to install than vmware-server.
[03:07] <twb> For one thing, to install vmware-server properly you need to install vmware-package from Debian, download the source tarball, turn it into a deb, install gdebi, then install the vmware-server .deb.
[03:07] <twb> And even then, you need to manually monitor vmware's website to detect new security and feature releases, and go through the same process for those.
[03:07] <twb> ...whereas kvm is a normal apt-gettable package.
[03:08] <twb> There's also the problem that vmware-server packages are illegal to redistribute and need to be "activated" with a gratis serial code, and aren't subject to the same Debian Policy requirements as official packages, nor can bugs be reported using reportbug(1).
[03:10] <twb> Oh, and vmware-package doesn't support vmware-server 2.x yet.
[04:02] <mat1211> what is kvm?
[04:04] <jmarsden> kvm is a virtual machine environment, so you can run multiple virtual computers on one physical machine.  See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM
[04:05] <jmarsden> BTW, a google search for    ubuntu kvm      should have found you that kind of info?
[04:05] <twb> Once the province of Big Iron, now you can get it on a $300 laptop...
[04:06] <twb> jmarsden: in #emacs our bot is actually trained to respond to "what is <keyword>?" the same way as "!<keyword>" :-)
[04:06] <jmarsden> twb: Nice... can you program the bot here to do the same?
[04:06] <twb> Sorry, I know nothing about your bots.
[04:06] <dug_> !kvm
[04:06] <twb> Emacs' fsbot is written in elisp, so you can't just copy its code.
[04:07] <jmarsden> dug_: Yes... is there a way to get a list of all the ! commands the bot recognizes? !dictionary or something??
[04:08] <dug_> not sure
[04:08] <twb> For cases where you really only want a virtualized filesystem, process tree and network stack, how does kvm weigh up against openvz or xen?
[04:08] <twb> jmarsden: usually there's a webpage
[04:08] <twb> !bot
[07:49] <Doble> hi folks
[07:49] <Doble> I'm new to ubuntu and I'm trying to set up a home DNS server using BIND9 and its giving me grief, can anyone help ?
[07:53] <Doble> it's probably something really obvious but since I dont seem to get any error its hard to troubleshoot
[07:55] <Doble> i think i've just screwed up the config files so much that I can't get them working again, heres the output from /var/log
[07:55] <Doble> Apr  5 16:52:13 ubuntu named[4480]: starting BIND 9.5.0-P2 -u bind
[07:55] <Doble> Apr  5 16:52:13 ubuntu named[4480]: found 2 CPUs, using 2 worker threads
[07:55] <Doble> Apr  5 16:52:13 ubuntu named[4480]: loading configuration from '/etc/bind/named.conf'
[07:55] <Doble> Apr  5 16:52:13 ubuntu named[4480]: /etc/bind/named.conf:12: unknown option 'zone'
[07:55] <Doble> Apr  5 16:52:13 ubuntu named[4480]: /etc/bind/named.conf:20: unknown option 'zone'
[07:55] <Doble> Apr  5 16:52:13 ubuntu named[4480]: /etc/bind/named.conf:25: unknown option 'zone'
[07:55] <Doble> Apr  5 16:52:13 ubuntu named[4480]: /etc/bind/named.conf:30: unknown option 'zone'
[07:55] <Doble> Apr  5 16:52:13 ubuntu named[4480]: /etc/bind/named.conf:35: unknown option 'zone'
[07:55] <Doble> Apr  5 16:52:13 ubuntu named[4480]: /etc/bind/named.conf.local:9: unknown option 'zone'
[07:55] <Doble> Apr  5 16:52:13 ubuntu named[4480]: /etc/bind/named.conf:41: '}' expected near end of file
[07:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> gah. dont flood here
[07:55] <Doble> Apr  5 16:52:13 ubuntu named[4480]: loading configuration: unexpected token
[07:55] <Doble> Apr  5 16:52:13 ubuntu named[4480]: exiting (due to fatal error)
[07:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> !paste
[07:55] <Doble> sorry, didn't know it would split it into multiple messages
[07:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> Doble, ^^
[07:56] <Doble> here's the pastebin - http://paste.ubuntu.com/144687/
[07:59] <twb> ubottu doesn't auto-kick flooders?
[08:09] <Doble> sorry for the spam before - I'll start again, im trying to configure bind9 and i think i've messed up the config files but I don't know how to fix them, and now bind fails to start - my config files: http://paste.ubuntu.com/144690/ and error log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/144687/
[08:22] <mrout> Hello
[08:22] <mrout> How do I install an IRC server on my Ubuntu Server (It's currently running a LAMP server)
[08:23] <mrout> ??
[08:23] <mrout> Is anyone there?
[08:24] <mrout> ow do I install an IRC server on my Ubuntu Server (It's currently running a LAMP server)H
[08:24] <mrout> *How
[08:24] <mrout> *server)
[08:25] <p_quarles> mrout: if somebody knows, they'll answer; don't keep repeating the question
[08:25] <mrout> Sorry
[08:25] <mrout> It's just that a new person came along.
[08:25] <friartuck> got google?
[08:26] <mrout> Yes...
[08:26] <mrout> lol
[08:27] <mrout> oh, I see what you mean. (I'm a bit slow)
[08:28] <friartuck> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ubuntu+irc+server&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=
[08:28] <mrout> Thank you.
[08:28] <obst> or try wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRCd
[08:28] <mrout> ty
[08:43] <JessicaParker> hi can anyone assist with getting postfix configured with gmail ?
[10:32] <aurax> hello, is there a content/web filtering application that's not working as a proxy?
[10:48] <LMJ> what's the problem with a proxy aurax  ?
[10:53] <aurax> i have 8 adsl lines and 5 vlans
[10:53] <aurax> managing proxy with multiple networks and routings seems really difficult
[10:57] <aurax> i mean ,proxy will kill my routing table
[12:05] <JessicaParker>  hi can anyone assist with open ssl confi am getting an error and i think it is down to the location of my /demoCA/private/cakey.pem
[14:07] <Hamzifer> any suggestions on how to install a quicker (and i guess, less random) psuedo random number generator? /dev/urandom's too slow :/
[14:35] <giovani> Hamzifer: /dev/urandom is the fast one
[14:35] <ewook> Hamzifer: why don't you just cache something from /dev/random?
[14:36] <giovani> well, before we go /dev/random ... we should know the application
[14:37] <Hamzifer> attempting to fill a disk with random data
[14:37] <giovani> why?
[14:39] <Hamzifer> ..because i am
[14:40] <giovani> you've probably been mislead about the efficacy of random data for securely wiping drives
[14:40] <giovani> it's entirely unnecessary
[14:41] <Hamzifer> nm, google to the rescue, dd if=/dev/zero | gpg --symmetric --passphrase `dd if=/dev/urandom bs=4 count=8 2>&1 | sha256sum | head -c 64` - > target
[14:42] <giovani> oh god ...
[14:42] <Hamzifer> produces random data at around 23mb/sec, compared to /dev/urandom/s 1.8mb/sec
[14:42] <Hamzifer> incase anyone else is interested
[14:45] <Hamzifer> although if anyone has any idea how to configure a "less random" prng, e.g. /dev/prandom, that would be useful to know, google's not being too helpful there :/
[14:46] <giovani> I suggest you save yourself a lot of time in the long run and read up on why Guttman's hypothesis -- which your desire to use random data is no-doubt based on, are false
[14:46] <giovani> s/are/is/
[14:47] <Hamzifer> Thanks, I'll keep that in mind when your concerns are relevant to my situation. Thanks for all the help
[14:47] <giovani> haha
[14:47] <giovani> they're concerned with any situation involving wiping drives
[14:47] <giovani> where you don't enjoy wearing tinfoil hats
[14:48] <Hamzifer> Indeed, and when I'm wiping a drive, I'll keep that in mind.
 attempting to fill a disk with random data
[14:48] <giovani> what are you doing then?
[14:49] <Hamzifer> A quick google for "Guttman's hypothesis", however, leads to mostly books.google.com results about psychology. Got any useful links?
[14:49] <Hamzifer> Not wiping a drive :)
[14:50] <acicula> filling a disk for encryption i suppose then
[14:50] <giovani> for encryption? maybe to hide an encrypted partition
[14:50] <giovani> but, there's no need other than that that I can think of
[14:51] <giovani> Hamzifer: it was my bad spelling -- Gutmann is correct
[14:51] <giovani> paper: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/secure_del.html
[14:52] <giovani> his "research" is the basis for the modern recommendation of using multiple passes of random, and non-random data
[14:56] <Hamzifer> Good to know I've not been doing it wrong then!
[14:56] <giovani> what have you been doing?
[14:57] <acicula> only thing i can think of is that if you can guess the plaintext pattern on the disk to be something standard like null you learn a bit more
[14:58] <Hamzifer> I've been trying to stay relevant to my original question, which was trying to get a faster psuedo random number/noise generator going! :)
[14:58] <giovani> well we want to know why! :)
[14:58] <Hamzifer> I'm afraid if I told you, I would have to kill you! ;)
[14:59] <giovani> prepare the tinfoil hats, folks!
[14:59]  * acicula goes off to dust the thumbscrews
[15:27] <Iceman_B^Ltop> my machine rebooted expectedly when I was asleep, where can I look to find out what happened around and up till that point?
[15:27] <Iceman_B^Ltop> *unexpectedly
[15:30] <PhotoJim> Iceman_B^Ltop: poke around /var/log.  dmesg and daemon.log might have useful info, or syslog.
[15:30] <JessicaParker> can anyone help with the openssl error in ubuntu /demoCA/serial: No such file or directory
[15:32] <Iceman_B^Ltop> PhotoJim: im looking at syslog. when I count back from the current uptime, I find this line "Apr  5 14:53:49 Rin-chan syslogd 1.5.0#2ubuntu6: restart."
[15:32] <PhotoJim> Iceman_B^Ltop: hmm.
[15:32] <giovani> JessicaParker: what's the context of the error? what were you doing when you received it?
[15:34] <Iceman_B^Ltop> PhotoJim: and I'm getting a lot of these: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/144935/
[15:36] <JessicaParker> giovani: http://www.marksanborn.net/linux/send-mail-postfix-through-gmails-smtp-on-a-ubuntu-lts-server/ ultimate goal gmail smtp
[15:36] <giovani> wtf
[15:36] <giovani> why do you need a CA to talk to gmail
[15:36] <JessicaParker> giovani: this is the command line that i get the isue from openssl ca -out FOO-cert.pem -infiles FOO-req.pem
[15:36] <giovani> that's absurd
[15:37] <PhotoJim> Iceman_B^Ltop: I'm sorry, I have no idea what that is about.  the libpolkit stuff looks more worrisome than the sigfile stuff.  the rest of it is innocuous.
[15:37] <JessicaParker> giovani: i think you cant use port 25 and need to use 587 and requires a certificate
[15:37] <giovani> yes ... but you don't need your own CA
[15:38] <giovani> postfix ships with unsigned certs
[15:38] <Iceman_B^Ltop> PhotoJim: perhaps http://www.bergek.com/2008/11/24/ubuntu-810-libpolkit-error/
[15:38] <giovani> this is why these howto guides are worthless
[15:38] <JessicaParker> giovani: i not all to familiar with this.......but looking around it looks like you need to create a self signed certificate to use gmail smtp service...
[15:38] <PhotoJim> Iceman_B^Ltop: good catch.  sounds like that's the thing to try.
[15:39] <JessicaParker> giovani: i dont think there are any how to guides for postfix gmail without the self signed certificate not sure though
[15:44] <Iceman_B^Ltop> PhotoJim: apaprantly there is a bug filed for it, I'm looking at the page right now but, I really have no clue beyond that. It doesnt seem like a policy kit will breach my server
[15:45] <PhotoJim> Iceman_B^Ltop: one wouldn't think so.
[15:49] <JessicaParker> any one any ideas on this ? i dont need a self signed certificate ?
[16:01] <Iceman_B^Ltop> oh wow, setting the TCP_NODELAY option in samba just doubled my speed
[16:02] <Iceman_B^Ltop> I'm getting around 5-6 MB/s over LAN now
[16:03] <Iceman_B^Ltop> but that was from server to this XP laptop. the other way around is still slow, around 2.8 MB/s
[16:49] <chris_d_adams> hi guys, which logs should I be looking in if I want to see what my system is doing when trying to recognise a usb device that's been attached?
[16:50] <giovani> chris_d_adams: /var/log/dmesg
[16:59] <chris_d_adams> giovani: hmm... I'm getting no sign at all when i plug something in there. is there another way to probe in more detail?
[16:59] <chris_d_adams> ah
[16:59] <chris_d_adams> syslog shows something
[16:59] <chris_d_adams> never mind
[16:59] <chris_d_adams> I'm good here
[17:33] <giovani> chris_d_adams: dmesg is the kernel log ... when you plug in a device, it should show up there
[17:35] <mrwes> I'm trying to use the following in a incrontab /media/external IN_CREATE IN_MODIFY clamscan -av $@/$#
[17:35] <mrwes> and it doesn't appear to run in htop
[17:37] <mrwes> I want it to clamdscan the file that was either created or modified
[17:40] <giovani> well, it may be a non-issue, but I believe IN_CREATE and IN_MODIFY are supposed to be comma separated
[17:40] <mrwes> yah I made that change...
[17:40] <giovani> alright, well we can only go off of what you paste here
[17:40] <mrwes> nod
[17:41] <mrwes> it currently reads /media/external IN_CREATE,IN_MODIFY clamscan -av $@/$#
[17:42] <mrwes> is there anyway to monitor whether it ran or not? I looked in /var/log/clamav but I didn't see anything
[17:42] <giovani> you try using a different command than clamscan ... to rule it out as a cause?
[17:42] <giovani> I don't think it logs to /var/log unless you're running the daemon
[17:43] <mrwes> well I'm running the clamd
[17:43] <giovani> ok?
[17:43] <giovani> and you reloaded the table, right?
[17:44] <giovani> try something like ... /media/external IN_CREATE,IN_MODIFY touch /testfile
[17:44] <giovani> and then use /testfile's access time to establish the last time it ran
[18:47] <Iceman_B^Ltop> what's a good FTP server ?
[18:48] <Nafallo>  vsftpd
[18:50] <Iceman_B|SSH> so that "sudo aptitude install vsftpd"
[18:50] <Iceman_B|SSH> I thought an FTPd was installed during server installation....
[18:59] <giovani> Iceman_B|SSH: no, and it shouldn't be -- very few people need ftp daemons on each server ... it increases default security holes, and bloats the install
[19:02] <Iceman_B^Ltop> good point
[19:02] <PhotoJim> Iceman_B|SSH: scp is a lot more secure, and safer.  winscp is a good client for Windows users.
[19:03] <Nafallo> sftp :-)
[19:03] <PhotoJim> Iceman_B|SSH: and if you have sshd enabled, you don't have to do anything to turn it on.
[19:05] <Iceman_B^Ltop> ah, right, I had forgotten about that
[19:07] <giovani> heh
[19:07] <giovani> yeah, ftp = bad
[19:08] <giovani> only use it if you have general users who aren't capable of using scp
[19:11] <Iceman_B^Ltop> well the thing is, I have my server thats on a 10/1 ADSL line, its download a certain torrent at almost the max speed. My desktop at another location is on a 120/10 cable line
[19:11] <Iceman_B^Ltop> the same torrent there goes as a snail pace
[19:11] <Iceman_B^Ltop> so I want to download the files here on my server and then transfer them back, but its 29 GB and 2100 files
[19:11] <PhotoJim> traffic shaping.
[19:12] <Iceman_B^Ltop> yeah, probbaly. Ive been following forums byt of course, the ISP denies all claims
[19:12] <PhotoJim> there are ways of testing it.
[19:12] <Iceman_B^Ltop> *but
[19:13] <Iceman_B^Ltop> im already running at high ports and encrytion on, on the cable pc
[19:13] <Iceman_B^Ltop> *port
[19:15] <PhotoJim> scp is the easiest (IMHO), best way to move the files, short of having a VPN connection so that you can mount nfs shares from your server onto your remote desktop.
[19:15] <PhotoJim> the latter is harder to set up, but easier to use.
[19:18] <giovani> scp will add overhead, though
[19:19] <giovani> especially if it's a really light cpu
[19:19] <PhotoJim> that's true.
[19:19] <giovani> i.e. celerons can choke under huge scp moves
[19:19] <PhotoJim> but by "light" we're talking pre-PIII probably right?
[19:19] <giovani> celerons are like Pentium 2s :)
[19:19] <giovani> at 10x the cost
[19:20] <PhotoJim> my PII-333 (about-to-be-retired server) was ok on scp.  Linux is pretty efficient.
[19:20] <PhotoJim> I'm guessing it's the cache issue if the Celeron sucks so much.
[19:20] <giovani> possibly ... there are many factors
[19:20] <giovani> it depends on what kinds of speeds you're expecting
[19:21] <giovani> if you have a celeron sitting on a 100Mbps line ... and you're trying to max that out over scp ... good luck
[19:22] <PhotoJim> my broadband is a tiny fraction of that, but I could run some experiments over the lan to see.
[19:23] <giovani> yeah, I'm rarely scping up from my home
[19:23] <acicula> my C2D maxes out at 2.2Mb/s iirc when i use the 100Mbit connection. admitedly it's not a very fast proc
[19:23] <giovani> 2.2Mbps or 2.2MBps?
[19:23] <giovani> they're wildly different
[19:23] <acicula> MB
[19:23] <acicula> the byte version
[19:23] <giovani> yeah, careful of writing that
[19:23] <acicula> hehe
[19:23] <giovani> Mb is Megabit
[19:23] <PhotoJim> the machine I'm on right now is an Atom N270 so I'm not sure it would be that great of a test platform :)
[19:23] <acicula> i alwas keep confusing them
[19:24] <giovani> little b ... means smaller measure
[19:24] <giovani> bigger B means bigger measure
[19:24] <giovani> easy enough
[19:24] <acicula> i shall never forget again
[19:24] <giovani> :)
[19:25] <giovani> so the 2.2MBps test was over scp, or something else?
[19:25]  * acicula scratches memory
[19:25] <acicula> scp or sftp, dont think they are treated very differently
[19:25] <acicula> the one that gives you the ascii completion bar and a speed reading anyway
[19:26] <Nafallo> MB/s :-)
[19:26] <acicula> it's been awhile since i last copied from my desktop
[19:26] <giovani> acicula: they're protocols
[19:26] <giovani> not clients
[19:26] <acicula> it decided life just wasnt worth living, and that i did not need the machine
[19:26] <acicula> or the disk :/
[19:27] <acicula> giovani: also both clients, though i wouldnt know if they use different procol messges under the hood
[19:27] <giovani> yes, to declare that the C2D was the bottleneck ... you'd need to actually look at the server load
[19:28] <acicula> giovani: well i didnt do extensive benchmarking , the machine has a disk quite capable of sustaining well over 2MB/s nor is it short on memory, switched 100Mbit local lan
[19:28] <giovani> yeah, but those are guesses
[19:28] <giovani> maybe that section of your disk was heavily fragmented
[19:28] <giovani> who knows
[19:28] <giovani> so, testing the actual system during the transfer is the only way to isolate the bottleneck, unlikely to be the cpu
[19:29] <acicula> actually
[19:29] <acicula> my desktop broke before i got the lappy, so must've been my old one :/, so the metrics i just gave are useless
[19:29] <acicula> doh
[19:32] <PhotoJim> I'm going to try an scp from my dual 1 GHz PIII server to my Atom N270 netbook for giggles
[19:32] <PhotoJim> 50.9 MB/s to create, not terrible. :)
[19:33] <giovani> to create?
[19:33] <PhotoJim> Yep.
[19:33] <giovani> what does "to create" mean?
[19:33] <Nafallo> -c blowfish
[19:33] <PhotoJim> I use blowfish by default.
[19:33] <Nafallo> :-/
[19:33] <Iceman_B^Ltop> PhotoJim, what machine is that N270 running in ?
[19:33] <acicula> why the preference for blowfish?
[19:34] <PhotoJim> Acer Aspire One.
[19:34] <PhotoJim> It seems to be one of the most efficient encryption algorithms ssh supports.
[19:34] <Iceman_B^Ltop> likeable little machine?
[19:34] <Iceman_B^Ltop> im looking for a netbook to buym, not too long fro mnow
[19:34] <giovani> hp mini 2140 or dell mini 10 are the only netbooks I'd consider at this point
[19:34] <Iceman_B^Ltop> have my eye on a NC10
[19:35] <PhotoJim> Just over 11 MB/s to read it over the LAN
[19:35] <giovani> heh, you're using these odd terms
[19:35] <giovani> "read" what?
[19:35] <PhotoJim> well... I wrote the file on the server
[19:35] <PhotoJim> now I'm reading it and copying it to the netbook
[19:36] <PhotoJim> the netbook can write it far faster than that rate, so the read speed is the issue here
[19:36] <giovani> well you didn't just get 50MBps over a 100Mbps LAN
[19:36] <giovani> that was a false metric if you did
[19:36] <PhotoJim> no, that was local
[19:36] <PhotoJim> I didn't say that was the scp speed
[19:36] <PhotoJim> that was the file creation speed locally
[19:37] <giovani> also not sure how you achieved 11MBps over the lan
[19:37] <giovani> unless this is gigabit
[19:37] <PhotoJim> 11.1 MB/s, not mb
[19:37] <PhotoJim> MB
[19:37] <PhotoJim> Mb
[19:37] <PhotoJim> 11.1 MB/s, not Mb
[19:37] <giovani> ... right
[19:37] <PhotoJim> that's what it's telling me, and no, it's not gigabit
[19:37] <giovani> 11.1MB/s is not possible over scp on a 100MBps lan
[19:37] <PhotoJim> perhaps it's doing compression.
[19:37] <giovani> 10MB/s is the reasonable, theorectical limit of a tcp connection over ip
[19:38] <giovani> maybe 11 at maximum, with no scp overhead
[19:38] <giovani> how big was the file?
[19:38] <PhotoJim> 1 gig
[19:38] <PhotoJim> 1024^3
[19:38] <giovani> k
[19:38] <PhotoJim> bytes
[19:39] <giovani> did you use -C?
[19:39] <giovani> that enables compression
[19:39] <PhotoJim> it doesn't seem too crazy, I have a 5 Mbit broadband download rate and I get just under 600 kB/s optimally
[19:39] <PhotoJim> I didn't specifically enable compression
[19:39] <PhotoJim> let me try it and see what happens
[19:40] <PhotoJim> Slower.
[19:40] <PhotoJim> But accelerating.
[19:40] <giovani> cpu bottleneck, probably
[19:40] <PhotoJim> Started at about 6 MB/s
[19:40] <PhotoJim> Probably
[19:40] <PhotoJim> now it's at 7~.3
[19:40] <PhotoJim> 7.3
[19:40] <Iceman_B^Ltop> is this all Linux> or is there samba between in?
[19:40] <giovani> the atom is a lightweight
[19:40] <Iceman_B^Ltop> just curious :)
[19:40] <giovani> samba ?
[19:40] <PhotoJim> Linux scp to sshd
[19:40] <PhotoJim> no samba
[19:40] <PhotoJim> no NFS
[19:40] <Iceman_B^Ltop> ok
[19:40] <giovani> what world are we talking about?
[19:40] <PhotoJim> I do have this partition mounted by NFS so I could copy it that way too
[19:41] <PhotoJim> Ubuntu on both machines, Jaunty on my netbook (to which I'm copying), Intrepid on my server (from which I'm copying)
[19:41] <PhotoJim> yes, with compression it's significantly slower
[19:41] <PhotoJim> which is ironic because the file is just zeroes
[19:41] <PhotoJim> obviously at 100BaseTX speeds, the compression can't keep up with the bandwidth
[19:41] <PhotoJim> at least with that machine
[19:42] <PhotoJim> one CPU is pinned at 100% on t he remote server, the other CPU is essentially idle
[19:42] <PhotoJim> so the CPU is the bottleneck on that compression.
[19:42] <PhotoJim> let me try via NFS
[19:42] <PhotoJim> what's the best way to time it?  scp provides rate information.
[19:43] <PhotoJim> but NFS won't of course.
[19:43] <PhotoJim> time I suppose
[19:44] <PhotoJim> both server CPUs are at about 15% load
[19:44] <PhotoJim> NFS seems to do load balancing
[19:45] <PhotoJim> brb, I'll report after a nature break :)
[19:47] <PhotoJim> 1:36.01 to transfer 1 gigabyte
[19:47] <PhotoJim> 1 gibibyte actually
[19:48] <PhotoJim> 11,183,645 bytes per second
[19:48] <giovani> we get it
[19:48] <PhotoJim> so scp and nfs are very similar in speed
[19:49] <PhotoJim> it'd be interesting to try it on a gigabit lan, to see what sort of hwardware you need to saturate it
[19:50] <giovani> well a regular desktop hard drive maxes out before gigabit lan does
[19:50] <giovani> so unless you have raid, or "commercial" drives, or ssds
[19:50] <giovani> that's your first bottleneck
[19:51] <PhotoJim> a PII-333 on the same lan here is receiving the file at 3.6 MB/s, so that's clearly too little CPU to saturate the link
[19:51] <PhotoJim> that's interesting.  so gigabit is going to be a fairly long-lasting technology if we c an't saturate it now without enterprise-level hardware.
[19:51] <giovani> this is news?
[19:52] <giovani> gigabit far from new ... we'll see 10 gigabit on desktops in 5 years
[19:52] <giovani> ssds will replace hds on consumer devices within 5 years
[19:52] <PhotoJim> I know gigabit isn't new.  just surprised it's still faster than current disks.
[19:52] <giovani> at least for the OS
[19:52] <giovani> you thought disks were more than 100MBps?
[19:52] <giovani> average consumer disk is capable of 40-60MBps read speeds
[19:52] <PhotoJim> I figured higher-end ones must be getting there.
[19:52] <giovani> it's an rpm issue
[19:53] <PhotoJim> but apparently only really high-end ones.
[19:53] <giovani> there's no higher-end consumer drive
[19:53] <Nafallo> tmpfs on /home/nafallo/memory type tmpfs (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev)
[19:53] <giovani> all consumer drives are 7200rpm or slower
[19:53] <PhotoJim> my OS drives on my server are 10000 rpm so it'll be interesting to do some speed tests on that
[19:53] <PhotoJim> unfortunately they are way too small for my data
[19:53] <giovani> no need really, just look at the specs
[19:55] <PhotoJim> more fun to experiment :)
[19:58] <giovani> not really
[19:58] <giovani> but ok
[22:40] <Iceman_B^Ltop> how does the "unix password sync = yes" exactly work in Samba ? will it change my Linux password when I change my samba password? how can that work when Im the only root user on the system?
[22:57]  * Iceman_B^Ltop pokes PhotoJim
[22:57] <Iceman_B^Ltop> you said earlier that you have a way to determine if an ISP is shaping p2p traffic?
[23:32] <AnRkey> hi all
[23:33] <AnRkey> I am trying to compile netxms for ubuntu 8.04.2 server
[23:33] <AnRkey> I get this checking for gd.h... no
[23:33] <PhotoJim> Iceman_B^Ltop: Yes?
[23:33] <AnRkey> then it fails, anyone know what package that file belongs to?
[23:34] <Iceman_B^Ltop> tell me more about it please
[23:34] <PhotoJim> Iceman_B^Ltop: you aren't the root user.  the only root user is the user named root.  and if you use that option, usernames on the Windows client machines and Linux box should match exactly and things will work.
[23:35] <PhotoJim> Iceman_B^Ltop: so if you change the Linux account password, you should change the Windows account password too, and there will be no prompt to enter a password when connecting to the Linux server from the Windows machine.
[23:35] <PhotoJim> Iceman_B^Ltop: So, ideally, have one account on your Linux box for every discreet user that will connect to it as a server on your local area network.
[23:37] <Iceman_B^Ltop> yeah, I had that figured out already. it's handy because I guess Windows tries to log onto the share with whatever user is logged into windows at that point
[23:37] <PhotoJim> that's exactly what Windows does when it tries to connect to Windows servers.
[23:37] <PhotoJim> you can force a separate login, but there is really no benefit to that.
[23:38] <Iceman_B^Ltop> so let me get this straightr, the "unix password sync =" option does not related to keeping samba and linux passwords on the same box the same ?
[23:38] <PhotoJim> you could create user accounts for your local users, and disable Linux login if you don't want them to actually be able to use the server via shell.
[23:38] <Iceman_B^Ltop> how would I go about that?
[23:39] <PhotoJim> Iceman_B^Ltop: hmm.  I think it does.  but now that you mention it, I did configure my Samba user names and passwords separately.  so I can't tell you that experientially.
[23:39] <PhotoJim> I'm in the other window working, so my replies might be slow.
[23:39] <Iceman_B^Ltop> no prob
[23:39] <Iceman_B^Ltop> im watching a show anyways :)
[23:40] <Iceman_B^Ltop> oh do tell me about the diabling the shell login thing please
[23:40] <Iceman_B^Ltop> whenver you have the time
[23:40] <AnRkey> nevermind: found the sucker
[23:40] <AnRkey> w000t, it's compiling at last
[23:40] <AnRkey> man, this netxms is awesome
[23:42] <PhotoJim> Iceman_B^Ltop: I forget how to do it off the top of my head, but it has to do with editing the shell field in the /etc/passwd file.  something to the effect of "nologin".  should be easy to find.
[23:43] <Iceman_B^Ltop> alright


[00:23] <ochosi> ali1234, bluesabre: robert's irc nick has always been robert_ancell afaik
[00:24] <ochosi> i think if we leak that much memory all the time with the greeter, a gtkimage can't be much worse now, can it?
[00:24] <ochosi> anyway, gotta rest
[00:24] <ochosi> night everyone
[00:24] <bluesabre> I might do some work in a branch for that to test
[00:24] <bluesabre> night ochosi
[01:31] <amerigena> Linux Identity magazine will be publishing an article on Xubuntu in its next edition - Xubuntu 13.10 : Bringing Xfce into the future.
[01:31] <amerigena> Pages 32 - 33, if anyone's interested.
[01:33] <ali1234> well i'm curious about "bringing xfce into the future"
[01:36] <pleia2> amerigena: cool :)
[01:36] <amerigena> It was the best title I could come up with.
[01:37] <amerigena> I hope that some of you have the opportunity to read and critique it.
[01:37] <ali1234> can i buy this online?
[01:37] <amerigena> Go to Linuxidentity.com.
[01:37] <ali1234> the website is confusing :/
[01:37] <amerigena> You can get the details there.
[01:37] <amerigena> Yes, I agree with you completely.
[01:38] <ali1234> how can a PDF download be out of stock?
[01:41] <amerigena> I don't know.
[02:04] <Unit193> "We lost the file when some rookie was given access to the server."?  More likely, something with DRM.
[03:55] <Unit193> Reminder: There will be an Xubuntu community meeting tomorrow.
[04:08] <Unit193> Also, for slickymaster: http://sigma.unit193.net/xubuntu/ is the new url, and http://unit193.net/xubuntu/ is the new mirror URL.
[09:30] <ochosi> holy smokes, someone has garbled up the submissions-page in the wiki again... :/
[10:12] <slickymaster> morning all
[10:13] <slickymaster> knome, regarding https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FrontPageRefresh, I would like to point out just three points
[10:20] <slickymaster> knome, first, I think the reference to the official documentation should be more emphasized. As it is now it's easily missed. I don't think that there's any official icon for the documentation, but probably adding an icon to it would improve on it's visibility
[10:21] <slickymaster> knome: You probably already know it, but I'm going to post it anyway, there's this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/IconsPage where you can find a huge collection of icons
[10:24] <slickymaster> knome, second, I think the design solution of the Installation boxes results all that well, at least visually speaking. I'm not sure if it is related with the table borders or not, but it doesn't look appealing
[10:27] <slickymaster> knome, third, on the "Finding your way" section is it possible to increase the space between the image and the list in the https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Signpost page?
[10:28] <slickymaster> knome: anyway, ping me if you consider I'm completely out of line here
[12:29] <ochosi> slickymaster: i kinda forgot about it, but you'll ping me when the keyboard-shortcuts stuff in the parole-docs is ready, right?
[12:29] <ochosi> (or is it already?)
[12:31] <slickymaster> ochosi: of course
[12:32] <slickymaster> ochosi: I haven't them ready yet because I had a flood in my apartment and everything is a bit chaotic
[12:33] <slickymaster> ochosi: I'm trying to get them done by the weekend at the very last
[12:33] <ochosi> slickymaster: oh, sorry to hear that
[12:33] <ochosi> we also have acqua alta here, took me quite some time to find a way through the city without getting wet...
[12:34] <ochosi> no stress with that, i only felt bad cause i asked you about it and then kinda forgot again :)
[12:34] <ochosi> so just do it whenever you have time
[12:34] <slickymaster> ochosi: yeah, but it's getting fixed, there's a constructor fixing all things, but as I have a wooden floor it's a bit slow
[12:35] <ochosi> oh, meh
[12:35] <ochosi> hope there's no slick on the floor though
[12:35] <ochosi> (sry, couldn't resist...)
[12:35]  * ochosi hides in shame for the silly pun
[12:36] <ochosi> so was it a broken pipe or water from the outside?
[12:38] <slickymaster> ochosi: a broken pipe in a bathroom
[12:38] <ochosi> slickymaster: that sucks... here it's all sea-water
[12:39] <ochosi> the only upside of a broken pipe is that the water is usually clean/er than water from the sea and it doesn't smell as much
[12:41] <slickymaster> ochosi: yeah, but there's nothing like the sea, I wouldn't imagine to live withou having it near by
[12:41]  * ochosi has done exactly that most of his life
[12:42]  * slickymaster also, whenever there's a chance he's surfing
[12:42] <slickymaster> :)
[12:43] <ochosi> :)
[12:43] <ochosi> i'm not sure there's much surfing ever in venice
[12:46] <slickymaster> ochosi: not even near that small island, the cemetery in Murano's direction?
[12:47] <ochosi> it's called san michele
[12:47] <slickymaster> ochosi: yes, I forgot it
[12:47] <ochosi> nah, there are rafts
[12:47] <ochosi> but i don't think i've seen windsurfers so far
[12:47] <ochosi> main problem could be that there's too much water-traffic
[12:48] <slickymaster> ochosi: yes, I was kidding. I know, I've in Venice twice
[12:48] <slickymaster> been ^^
[12:48] <ochosi> :)
[12:49] <ochosi> gah, someone messed up the wiki page for submissions, and i fear all i can do now is revert the last change
[12:49] <ochosi> so maybe a wallpaper will be lost, not sure
[12:49] <slickymaster> still haven't forget how well I ate in several Osterias
[12:50] <slickymaster> not sure if it's well written - Osteria
[12:50] <ochosi> yeah
[12:50] <ochosi> but the plural would be osterie
[12:50] <ochosi> (in italian)
[12:50]  * ochosi waits for knome to jump out with the rule-book sending us off to x-offtopic
[12:51]  * slickymaster was think exactly the same thing
[12:51] <slickymaster> it's better not to push our luck
[12:51] <ochosi> ;)
[12:51] <ochosi> well if you were in -ot, i'd already have moved the conversation there
[12:52] <slickymaster> what's -ot?
[12:52] <ochosi> #xubuntu-offtopic
[12:52] <slickymaster> ok
[12:52] <ochosi> that miraculous place where you can talk about whatever you want :>
[12:52] <slickymaster> anyway, got go, it's lunch time and I have to go home to see how things are going
[12:54] <slickymaster> ochosi: we'll have to meet there, then, to speak about Italy, it's one of the most beautiful countries I've ever been
[12:54] <slickymaster> bbl
[12:55] <ochosi> indeed
[12:55] <ochosi> bon appetit, slickymaster, and good luck with your appartment!
[16:03]  * skellat asks what time the meeting was supposed to be today
[16:05] <slickymaster> hi skellat, I believe it was supposed to be at 16:00 UTC
[16:08] <ochosi> oh, today
[16:08] <ochosi> right
[16:08] <ochosi> that would be now..?
[16:09] <slickymaster> yeaps
[16:09] <elfy> I'm about but will need pinging
[16:09] <slickymaster> but apparently there's almost no one around
[16:09] <ochosi> yeah, i'm not *really* around actually
[16:10] <ochosi> should we just reschedule for tomorrow?
[16:10] <slickymaster> one foot in the other out
[16:10] <ochosi> or do an impromptu meeting kinda soonish, when more ppl are around
[16:10] <skellat> !team -- Are we proceeding with the already scheduled meeting that should have started 10 minutes ago or do we need to reschedule it?
[16:11] <skellat> !team-#xubuntu-devel -- Are we proceeding with the already scheduled meeting that should have started 10 minutes ago or do we need to reschedule it?
[16:11] <skellat> !team-#xubuntu-devel -- Are we proceeding with the already scheduled meeting that should have started 10 minutes ago or do we need to reschedule it
[16:11]  * skellat **SLAPS** ubottu
[16:11] <slickymaster> LOL
[16:12] <skellat> bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, micahg, mr_pouit, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, Unit193 -- Are we proceeding with the already scheduled meeting that should have started 10 minutes ago or do we need to reschedule it?
[16:12] <elfy> I can but will need pinging - in CC uds thing as well
[16:12] <ochosi> reschedule
[16:13] <ochosi> (unless ppl suddently start showing up)
[16:13] <skellat> I'm guessing we're going to have to
[16:14] <micahg> meeting?
[16:15] <micahg> I thought the meetings were at 15:00
[16:15] <skellat> micahg: Agenda for this one said 1600 UTC
[16:15] <micahg> ok
[16:15] <micahg> I'm a little out of otuch
[16:15] <micahg> touch even
[16:16] <skellat> micahg: With the Community Council having an open session at the same time, I think we'll be re-scheduling since it would be just you and me
[16:16] <micahg> ok, sure, I'm just working anyways
[16:17]  * skellat disappears for a moment to do household cleaning
[16:18] <elfy> meetings moved forward and hour for the end of summer time
[16:30] <GridCube> meeting?
[16:40] <skellat> GridCube: It looks like we'll be rescheduling
[16:43] <elfy> I guess so
[16:45] <slickymaster> knome: besides in Chapter 7. Printing and Scanning, there are two more occurrences of gksudo in xubuntu-docs, namelly in Chapter 13. The command line and in Chapter 2. Migrating and Upgrading
[16:47] <slickymaster> knome: do you think it's worth to fill bugs to each one, or can I use the existing one https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/+bug/1251332 and in my merge proposal fix them all?
[17:10] <slickymaster> bbl
[17:10] <Unit193> Lets do it now! :P  So next week same time?
[17:12] <GridCube> i guess so
[17:12] <GridCube> we can make an informal meeting
[17:15] <Unit193> #chair GridCube
[17:25] <elfy> seems the chair is sitting elsewhere Unit193 :)
[17:36] <GridCube> hahaha
[17:37] <GridCube> ok want me to do an informal meeting? we can do that
[17:40] <GridCube> if anyone has anything to report you can report it and we make a mail for that?
[17:42] <ochosi> better do a real meeting then, at least then meetingology takes the notes for us
[17:42] <ochosi> but i suggest we stick to rescheduling, not even sure that there are many ppl around now
[17:42] <GridCube> alright, thoug i believe you can start the meetinglogy ochosi P:
[17:42] <ochosi> actually i have to take off again for another 30min or so
[17:42] <ochosi> might be back later tonight though
[17:42] <ochosi> :/
[17:43] <GridCube> alright,reschedule then
[17:52] <elfy> I'd favour that - next thursday :)
[17:58] <Unit193> Makes sense, I'll wait a second for objections before I add it.
[18:07] <knome> skellat, you can just call !team on this channel :)
[18:08] <knome> and sorry, my schedule simply didn't allow me to be around the meeting
[18:08] <Unit193> Yeah, it's normal ubottu use !fact | text
[18:09] <Unit193> knome: Next week same time?
[18:09] <knome> yep
[18:14] <Unit193> http://goo.gl/hEIYtA
[18:14] <elfy> 6pm?
[18:15] <Unit193> Same time as always.
[18:17] <elfy> Unit193: you did the time in not UTC?
[18:17] <elfy> cos it's 1800UTC here now
[18:17] <knome> boo
[18:17] <knome> it should be 16utc
[18:18] <Unit193> Shows up fine for me, hrm.
[18:18] <ali1234> is there a calendar i can subscribe to to get all of those?
[18:19] <ali1234> it shows as 18:00 for me too btw, and i'm in GMT now, which = UTC
[18:19] <Unit193> The google calendar, yeah.  It's the only way I know about the meetings too.
[18:20] <elfy> they show up on fridge I thought?
[18:21] <elfy> thought wrong - must have subscribed to the xubuntu one
[18:21] <ali1234> ...what's the URL for it?
[18:21] <Unit193> There, the problem was the timezone wasn't set, so it still showed up fine for me. >_<
[18:24] <Unit193> ali1234: https://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=383qgn907l43kd425bteqjg850%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America/New_York
[18:24] <Unit193> Well...
[18:26] <ali1234> ...but how do i subscribe to it? i need an ical url...
[18:27] <Unit193> https://www.google.com/calendar/ical/383qgn907l43kd425bteqjg850%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics should do it.
[18:27] <ali1234> perfect, thanks
[18:29] <Unit193> knome: Aha!  The calendar is set to default to (GMT+02:00) Helsinki.
[18:30] <knome> :P
[18:30] <ochosi> :)
[18:30] <knome> feel free to re-set
[18:30] <knome> if you can.
[18:30] <Unit193> I didn't think I could, but looks like I can.
[18:31] <knome> cool
[18:34] <Unit193> Yep, problem fixed, and I didn't even set it to EST. :P  (GMT, no daylight savings.)
[18:34] <knome> isn't that namely UTC :P
[18:35] <Unit193> But it doesn't call it that. :P
[19:09] <ochosi> brainwash: did you get a chance to test the greeter branch yet?
[21:16] <knome> hey people,
[21:16] <Unit193> Yes?
[21:16] <knome> we were discussing about creating a LP group ~xubuntu-qa
[21:16] <knome> to at some point replace ~xubuntu-testers
[21:17] <knome> -qa would be moderated though
[21:17] <pleia2> to what end?
[21:17] <Unit193> That was my thought, what's the logic?
[21:17] <knome> to "we'll approve if you are actually helping us test or other QA activities"
[21:17] <elfy> -testers is mostly just a bunch of people that have a badge - there's no way we get that many people testing
[21:18] <elfy> or if they do then the tests never count
[21:18] <knome> yep... i'm worried that -testers is just for badge collectors
[21:18] <pleia2> so what? :)
[21:18] <knome> it doesn't seem to serve a purpose
[21:18] <pleia2> we can use that team to send out testing announcements
[21:18] <pleia2> if people don't like getting email as a member of the team, they can quit
[21:18] <knome> yes... but we can also use twitter, and we get the same amount of replies
[21:19] <pleia2> I don't see evidence for this
[21:19] <pleia2> we should give ita try
[21:19] <knome> me neither. that's just my imagination creating that situation up
[21:19] <knome> i would want to have a -qa team similar to -art and -website
[21:19] <elfy> pleia2: don't see evidence for what - that we've got people that are on the testers team but don't appear in test results?
[21:20] <pleia2> when elfy sends a message to -devel about testing, he also  clicks on "Contact this team's members" to send the same message to all of them
[21:20] <knome> (expect that it wouldn't really have a technical-formal meaning, only social, for now)
[21:20] <knome> elfy, for us getting as much replies from twitter as -testers s;)
[21:20] <elfy> oh right
[21:20] <pleia2> if people are really interested in testing, they get notified, if they are badge collectors and don't like getting email about it, they'll leave the team
[21:20] <Unit193> elfy: Techincally I did some testing, but not general ISO testing, just application for feedback normally to bluesabre.
[21:20] <knome> pleia2, i disagree.
[21:21] <pleia2> knome: based on?
[21:21] <knome> pleia2, they can just filter the mail.
[21:21] <knome> pleia2, and stay members of the team
[21:21] <pleia2> doesn't hurt to try it
[21:21] <knome> no, it doesn't
[21:21] <pleia2> who cares if they stay members of the team?
[21:21]  * knome shrugs
[21:21] <pleia2> I don't share the horror of teams full of badge collectors ;)
[21:21] <elfy> I don't care if they stay members of the team
[21:21] <pleia2> they don't have special permissions or anything
[21:22] <knome> i don't mind that either, but i'd like to see a team of 15 active people than team of 150 non-active
[21:22] <elfy> what I care about is having some idea of how many I can expect to test
[21:22] <pleia2> elfy: I don't think you'll ever have that :(
[21:22] <elfy> well ... perhaps that's the wrong wording
[21:22] <pleia2> sounds like just an admin annoyance, having to come up with a policy of who can be added to -qa (how many tests?), when to remove them (no tests in a cycle?)
[21:22] <knome> pleia2, well... if i need to know who can help update the xubuntu website, i can always look at -website
[21:23] <knome> pleia2, same policy as all other subteams.
[21:23] <elfy> ok - so how about this
[21:23] <elfy> use the contact team members - which I'd never really noticed
[21:23] <pleia2> knome: but website and other teams actually have privs associated with them that make it important to have a moderated team
[21:23] <knome> pleia2, i don't think it is a problem with the level of "traffic" we would have...
[21:23] <elfy> and make it moderated perhaps
[21:23] <pleia2> knome: we want it to become a problem :)
[21:24] <knome> pleia2, -qa could ultimately be a subteam of ~ubuntu-testcase, which is a team who can edit the testcases.
[21:24] <pleia2> so what's the point of -testcase then?
[21:24] <knome> (probably not right away, and possibly not at any point, but...)
[21:24] <knome> pleia2, that team is the one that technically gives permissions
[21:25] <knome> pleia2, note, "ubuntu-" ...
[21:25] <pleia2> just feels like we're not actually solving a problem
[21:25] <knome> my argument for the -qa team is to be able to give some recognition to people who have worked on that area
[21:25] <pleia2> ah
[21:25] <knome> because currently, it seems that they don't have a clear path to -team
[21:25] <knome> because there is no subteam for them really
[21:26] <knome> and there are -team members who have ultimately approved mostly for testing
[21:26] <knome> so why couldn't we use -qa as a stepping stone as well
[21:26] <knome> (and try to gather those active testers in that group)
[21:27] <knome> i can name a few people who i'd definitely like to be in -qa who are not on -team
[21:27] <knome> i mean, from the top of my head
[21:27] <pleia2> I still don't see benefits outweighing the headache (and depriving us of a way to contact everyone who at one point showed interest in testing) but that's me :)
[21:27] <knome> creating -qa doesn't necessarily mean we need to drop -testers
[21:28] <knome> it isn't too much headache to list people who are active with xubuntu qa
[21:28] <knome> many of us could do that right here right now
[21:28] <elfy> I'd 'prefer/like' to see -testers as a sub team of qa
[21:28] <pleia2> admittedly, it's not a headache at all for me if knome does it :)
[21:28] <knome> and would probably do it faster *without* looking at the -testers memberlist ;)
[21:29] <knome> well ultimately the ball on that rolls to elfy
[21:29] <knome> elfy, that wouldn't make much sense ;)
[21:29] <knome> elfy, create a higher level group and make a lower level group part of that? :)
[21:29] <elfy> probably not - I'm on the heavy meds today
[21:30] <knome> pleia2, heh. yeah.
[21:30] <elfy> mmm
[21:30] <knome> pleia2, so are you saying you'd like to see us using -testers first before creating -qa?
[21:30] <pleia2> knome: I'd like us to give it a try
[21:30] <elfy> ok - so let's this cycle use the contact members option
[21:30] <knome> pleia2, sure.
[21:30] <pleia2> elfy: \o/
[21:31] <knome> pleia2, apart from that, can you (not) see any benefit in creating -qa ?
[21:31] <knome> that seems to be the only subteam that doesn't have their own LP group atm
[21:31] <knome> one more reason to be fair and create it for them!
[21:31] <pleia2> lol
[21:31] <Unit193> mr_pouit: Howdy.
[21:32] <knome> as i said, there doesn't seem to be a clear path from "tester" to "team member"
[21:32] <elfy> other than one in our heads
[21:32] <knome> except "test for 5 years until somebody accidentally approves you to -team"
[21:32] <knome> the strategy document is quite clear on this
[21:33] <knome> -> get approved to a subteam first, later you can become a team member
[21:33] <pleia2> if someone wants to track and maintain a -qa team with active testers, ok :)
[21:34] <pleia2> still just feels like busy work to me unless we really do make them a subteam of the ubuntu-testcases team
[21:34] <knome> it seems like there is more idea to create that now that QA ![21:34] <knome> err, !==
[21:35] <knome> back when qa only involved testing... yeah, it would've been a useless group
[21:35] <pleia2> we don't have a marketing launchpad team either because there are no launchpad things for it to do there
[21:35] <knome> today being involved with QA doesn't necessarily mean involvement with testing
[21:35] <knome> pleia2, yeah, but there are -docs and -art
[21:35] <knome> pleia2, and -website
[21:36] <knome> pleia2, what else does marketing constitute of?
[21:36] <pleia2> website and doc at least have special access, don't they?
[21:36] <elfy> but there are LP things that a QA team can do - if we agree they have access to the tracker - which then entails a deal of trust
[21:36] <knome> pleia2, and -art, but that's not the point :)
[21:36] <pleia2> social media is the biggest part of marketin for us
[21:36] <pleia2> website and marketing are separate subteams
[21:36] <knome> pleia2, sure. i'm not disagreeing on that :)
[21:37] <Unit193> docs seems to really only get bug reports, not actually be able to do anything (I was added for some strange reason.)
[21:37] <knome> i've been mulling over not having -marketing either, but yeah, as you said, no reason for that team...
[21:37] <pleia2> anyway, I don't really care in the end, it's up to elfy, I just don't want to create a bunch of launchpad teams that are just collections of people for the lulz
[21:37] <knome> Unit193, you contributed to the docs? :P
[21:37] <knome> pleia2, no, not at all
[21:37] <elfy> pleia2: neither would I
[21:37] <knome> pleia2, i don't want useless teams either
[21:38] <pleia2> you could argue that the guy who admins facebook and the one who admins linkedin should be a part of a -marketing collection-of-people for recognition and a path to membership too
[21:38] <pleia2> but meh
[21:38] <knome> pleia2, but replacing a useless team that can't be used to track even an approximate amount of anything with a team that can be used to track the approximate amount of testers
[21:39] <knome> pleia2, agreed. and there is "somebody" who wishes to maintain that... ;)
[21:39] <pleia2> I made my argument for the value of -testers and now we have an action item :)
[21:39] <knome> +if
[21:40] <knome> i'm uncertain if we can actually make -qa a subteam of ubuntu-testcase (depends on balloons)
[21:40] <knome> but nonetheless i don't think creating -qa is a bad thing
[21:40] <knome> pleia2, ALSO!
[21:40] <knome> pleia2, we can then use [xubuntu-qa] for work items :]
[21:41] <pleia2> yeah
[21:41] <knome> which would be an improvement really..
[21:41] <knome> so stupid to dump everything on -team
[21:41]  * Unit193 symlinked team to knome.
[21:42] <knome> elfy, you promise to use "contact this team" with -testers this cycle even if we create -qa?
[21:42] <elfy> yep
[21:42] <knome> elfy, (and you still want to create -qa?)
[21:42] <elfy> yea with a tiny dash of not sure
[21:42] <knome> heh
[21:43] <elfy> no - I'm sure :)
[21:43] <Unit193> Also will have to clarify who should be on it.
[21:44] <knome> the list that i had on my head is:
[21:44] <knome> knome, elfy, slickymaster, Nosckaj and last but not least, Unit193
[21:44] <knome> and we could voluntell bluesabre as well, since he's on ubuntu-testcase
[21:45] <knome> elfy is probably able to name a few more testers
[21:45] <elfy> yep - if someone is on that they should be in -qa
[21:45] <Unit193> Not sure if I should be on if ple isn't, I don't do a ton more I don't think.  lder does some too, IIRC.
[21:45] <pleia2> I wasn't involved much in 13.10, but historically I've done tests (and will again for 14.04
[21:45] <elfy> I'll trawl the test reports to see who shouts at me
[21:48] <elfy> and once I start using the -testers contact option we can see what comes out of the woodwork
[21:49] <knome> heh,
[21:49] <knome> making a team owner of a team adds it as a member.
[21:49] <Unit193> Gridders, The Washer of Brains, Madnick?
[21:49] <elfy> but frankly I'd wonder why something as important as QA is - is just this random group of people who might or might not be doing anything for us
[21:50] <knome> elfy, you are now administrator of ~xubuntu-qa
[21:50] <elfy> so I am
[21:50] <knome> wonder why you expire one day earlier than me :P
[21:50]  * knome shrugs
[21:51] <elfy> I'd want to talk to slicky before co-opting him though :)
[21:51] <elfy> expire dates look the same to me
[21:52] <knome> weird. for me it shows you expire -20, me -21 :)
[21:53] <elfy> for me it shows you as -20 :)
[21:53] <elfy> perhaps 21:49 UTC was a leap minute
[21:53] <knome> lol
[21:53] <knome> something like that
[21:54] <elfy> however - changing all the QA blueprint [xubuntu-team] to [xubuntu-qa] is going to annoy me
[21:54] <elfy> just as well put [elfy] :p
[21:55] <knome> nah, put in -qa where you aren't sure you will be doing something :P
[21:55] <elfy> lol
[21:55] <knome> and i hope there are some of those items as well :P
[21:55] <elfy> oh there will be :)
[21:55] <elfy> just had a quick count - 17 items
[21:55] <elfy> lol
[22:17] <Unit193>  * Include section on signing Ubuntu Code of Conduct <<<Why exactly?  Aren't there enough places that do this, or is there something specific to Xubuntu that I don't know about?
[22:17] <knome> i would discuss that with skellat, the father of the idea
[22:18] <knome> hey slickymaster :)
[22:18] <Unit193> slickymaster: Howdy.
[22:18] <skellat> What did I do now?
[22:18] <slickymaster> hi Unit193, knome
[22:19] <slickymaster> knome, not sure if you got a chance to see it so I'm posting it now http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/11/21/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t10:13
[22:19] <Unit193> slickymaster: See my comment about a new domain name for the docs?
[22:19] <slickymaster> where is your comment, Unit193?
[22:19] <Unit193> In here, but "http://sigma.unit193.net/xubuntu/ is the new url, and http://unit193.net/xubuntu/ is the new mirror URL."
[22:20] <slickymaster> just a sec
[22:20] <knome> slickymaster, yeah, i saw it but still have to process it :)
[22:20] <Unit193> The old one still works and should keep working, but that's the better one. :P
[22:20] <slickymaster> yeah, nice, one place with all the available translations
[22:21] <slickymaster> kudos Unit193, great work you've done
[22:21] <Unit193> Hah, not really, you're doing most of it. :P
[22:21] <slickymaster> another thing knome, did you saw this one http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/11/21/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t16:45
[22:22] <slickymaster> Unit193, no, not really
[22:22] <knome> slickymaster, use bug 1251332 (note changed title)
[22:22] <slickymaster> knome, got it
[22:23] <Unit193> I still use `gksudo`, and as far as I know `sudo` will still mess with your permissions.
[22:24] <slickymaster> knome, I was thinking of going with this for the command line chapter: "<note><para>If the program you wish to run as an administrator is graphical, such as the <application>Mousepad</application> text editor, you should enable your system's root account before launching the desired program, running the command <userinput>sudo -i</userinput> for that effect, even if you are running the application from the command line.</para><
[22:24] <slickymaster> /note>
[22:24] <slickymaster> ups, forgot to remove the tags
[22:24] <slickymaster> If the program you wish to run as an administrator is graphical, such as the Mousepad text editor, you should enable your system's root account before launching the desired program, running the command sudo -i for that effect, even if you are running the application from the command line.
[22:25] <knome> umm,
[22:25] <skellat> slickymaster: That's actually pretty unsafe as it won't pass X permissions/authorities correctly
[22:25] <knome> don't say "enable .. root"
[22:25] <slickymaster> I can replace it with "... to obtain a root prompt..."
[22:25] <ali1234> +1 do not say "enable root"
[22:26] <Unit193> I was thinking that too. :P
[22:26] <ali1234> skellat: -i does, cos it starts a new login session in that user's homedir
[22:26] <knome> slickymaster, that sounds better
[22:27] <elfy> sudo -i is what I'm assuming
[22:27] <elfy> gksudo works here as well Unit193 - but only becasue I installed it :)
[22:27] <elfy> hi slickymaster ali1234
[22:27] <Unit193> elfy: I had it.
[22:27] <elfy> and good night
[22:27] <ali1234> skellat: and if it doesn't we have a problem, because ubuntu is telling everyone it's fine after they removed gksudo from the default install
[22:28] <slickymaster> skellat,  ali1234, the option of going with sudo -i instead of gksudo was agreed with knome and elfy after discussing it with balloons
[22:28] <slickymaster> hi elfy
[22:28] <skellat> slickymaster: It throws errors on 12.04
[22:28] <skellat> Following the example, that is
[22:29] <Unit193> The main problem with using sudo -i over gksudo is text vs GUI prompt.
[22:29] <knome> skellat, we're preparing documentation for 14.04 though, 12.04 still says gksudo
[22:29] <Unit193> (Alt+F2)
[22:29] <slickymaster> skellat, what knome said
[22:29] <skellat> knome: I don't have anything set up with 14.04 to test yet
[22:29] <knome> skellat, sure :)
[22:30] <slickymaster> skellat, 14.04 doesn't cames shipped with gksudo
[22:30] <skellat> slickymater: True
[22:31] <skellat> Let me walk over to the Debian Testing box and try something since that will be closer to 14.04
[22:31] <skellat> Even though it is armhf
[22:31]  * slickymaster plans to replace "... enable your system's root account..." with "... to obtain a root prompt..." if no one objects
[22:31] <Unit193> Lubuntu ships it, Mythbuntu and Edubuntu seem to ship it live.
[22:32] <knome> would "login to a super user prompt" be better, or sound just avoiding saying "root" ?
[22:32] <skellat> Unit193: We could fix the seed to avoid these gyrations in editing attempts
[22:33]  * skellat gets called to the kitchen
[22:33] <slickymaster> knome, is super user prompt technically correct when referring to root?
[22:34] <knome> i'm not sure if it's technically correct or exactly the same thing, but i think it communicates the same thing
[22:34] <Unit193> What's wrong with root prompt?
[22:34] <knome> i don't know
[22:35] <knome> i'm just trying to avoid the word "root" :P
[22:35] <slickymaster> I think it sounds better, Unit193
[22:36] <knome> we can always drop it in like that and if needed, change later
[22:36] <slickymaster> knome, Unit193 , what about administrative prompt?
[22:36] <Unit193> Sure.
[22:36] <knome> just go ahead with root prompt
[22:36] <Unit193> This assumes the user knows how.
[22:37] <knome> knows what? :)
[22:37] <slickymaster> knome, Unit193 ^^ what about administrative prompt?
[22:37] <knome> that's meh
[22:37] <knome> that more off root than super user is
[22:37] <slickymaster> you're probably right :P
[22:38] <slickymaster> I'll go ahead with root prompt, and as you say it can be drop later if needed
[22:39] <Unit193> knome: How's the translating looking. ;)
[22:40] <knome> i've done about 55%
[22:40] <knome> haven't had time to work on it for a few days
[22:40]  * slickymaster has to put his son in bed
[22:41] <knome> hf
[22:43] <Unit193> I was actually kind of thinking the shipping/building/etc. :P
[22:43] <Unit193> Or, re-creating the pot.
[22:43] <knome> aha
[22:43] <knome> :P
[22:43] <knome> well,
[22:43] <knome> it's not "looking" anything else than what it was looking last time
[22:44] <Unit193> Yeeeep, 'tis what I figured. :D
[22:44] <knome> i suppose i should find somebody who is somewhat familiar with docs/translation packaging
[22:44] <knome> yeah, good luck to me...
[22:45] <Unit193> In theory I could work it, but not as nicely.
[22:46] <knome> for me, what you did on the website, is fine
[22:46] <knome> that would simply need another page that lists all the translations available
[22:46] <knome> and a link to that in the main page
[22:46] <knome> OR
[22:46] <Unit193> Well, I meant packaged.  That right there is a tad hacky.
[22:47] <knome> a way to probe what the current language is, and automatically show that
[22:47] <knome> but... yeah
[22:47] <knome> i know
[22:47] <knome> but in theory
[22:47] <knome> it wouldn't necessarily need to be the latter scenario
[22:48] <Unit193> But, was thinking you could have seperate packages, like other things, or having them all in one and linked off.
[22:50] <Unit193> Also, of course you can leave Xubuntu{logo} as the image, only need to remove documentation from that.
[22:53] <Unit193> Heh, get-pot.sh didn't seem to change much: http://paste.openstack.org/show/BywJtdG9mvTROhKK8VZl/
[22:54] <knome> yep, we will need to remove that from the image
[22:57] <Unit193> desktop-guide/libs/shipped-docs is up to date it'd seem.
[22:57] <knome> yeah, should be
[22:59] <Unit193> ...Why are these xml files executable?
[22:59] <knome> i have no idea
[22:59] <Unit193> Anywho, I'll be silent now. :)
[23:01] <knome> nah
[23:15] <knome> bbl (tomorrow or so)
[23:23] <brainwash> ochosi: not yet, sorry


[07:21] <jldugger> ok this is a wierd bug. i set up my laptop to do 1440x900 and the regular 1024, 800, 640 resolutions. on boot up, xrandr presents only the 1440x900 mode. if i restart x with ctrl-alt-backspace, it works
[04:01] <malice_> I wass looking into getting a Wireless card from verizon or some other cell company. I was just wondering if any of you use one and if so what is the easiest to install?


[09:55] <CIA-16> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1568 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 20101020ubuntu79
[16:36] <jibel> preseeded installs now requires to set keyboard-configuration/xkb-keymap . Do you know where this change comes from ? I can't find it.
[16:36] <jibel> it was somewhere around Nov. 15th
[16:36] <cjwatson> that would be the giant console-setup merege
[16:37] <cjwatson> oh god, I wish Debian's console-setup maintainers would STOP REARRANGING DEBCONF QUESTIONS UNNECESSARILY
[16:38] <cjwatson> jibel: this requires some thought, please file a bug on console-setup
[16:39] <cjwatson> I'll probably ditch that question
[16:39] <jibel> cjwatson, ok, will do. It's giving me hard times with desktop preseeded installs.
[16:40] <cjwatson> yeah, I expect I can fix it quickly but at the very least I want an audit trail for why I did it


 Not sure if that factoid would be of any help often
[12:47] <theadmin> Myrtti: It looks like Cyrillic in wrong encoding to me (at least that does look... this way, usually)
[12:48] <Myrtti> even Cyrillic has spaces between words
[12:48] <Myrtti> that doesn't change :-P
[12:48] <Tm_T> considering we will just ask to use english anyway, the whole unicode is moot (:
[12:48] <Tm_T> in this case, that is
[12:49] <theadmin> Myrtti: Ah, good point :D Though glyphic languages don't, but yeah, point taken.
[12:49] <theadmin> Tm_T: Good point too.
[12:52]  * theadmin tries to remember her LP login data
[12:52] <theadmin> Haven't been there in ages
[12:53] <Tm_T> I think we can continue this on #ubuntu-irc (:
[12:55] <theadmin> Tm_T: Oh. Sure.
[14:35] <h00k> !away > os2mac
[14:36] <Tm_T> uh, still?
[14:49]  * h00k lastlogs it
[14:49] <h00k> Tm_T: apparently
[14:50] <Tm_T> I thought he's been reminded of that like 50 times already?
[14:50] <h00k> Probably
[14:51] <h00k> I see AtomicSpark reminded in #ubuntu-offtopic, and a bunch of times it has happened
[14:52] <LjL> he's not in #ubuntu, i wouldn't take any action, except maybe give him a PM from the bot every time ;)
[15:05] <h00k> LjL: tee.
[15:05] <LjL> h00k: cat
[15:07] <Pici> tac
[15:16] <jussi> cold
[15:26] <h00k> yes. cold/
[16:07] <ikonia> LjL: ping
[16:07] <LjL> ikonia: pong
[16:07] <ikonia> see the secret channel please.
[21:49] <LjL> oh lord.
[21:49] <LjL> i don't even know what to say
[21:49] <Pici> to which?
[21:49] <LjL> Pici: aloshe
[21:50] <LjL> whew
[21:50] <h00k> crisis averted
[21:50] <pangolin> he seems to have completed his task for the day
[21:51] <LjL> RESTART
[21:51] <LjL> now for a serious apt question... if only i had a clue :(
[21:52] <Myrtti> JoseeAntonioR: hi
[21:52] <JoseeAntonioR> Myrtti Hello!
[21:53] <JoseeAntonioR> Please, warn the users in #ubuntu to not enter the ##fearnode channel, someone pushed me into it and i was insulted in a very bad way, and in spanish. I have already told the freenode staff about it.
[21:53] <LjL> for now we haven't had anyone tried to advertize it
[21:53] <LjL> was wodim going to do that?
[21:53] <JoseeAntonioR> yep
[21:53] <LjL> i've banned him
[21:54] <JoseeAntonioR> ljl thanks for that
[21:54] <JoseeAntonioR> But, just fyi, he had like 30 other friends connected to that channel, so please take care of it
[21:55] <h00k> We haven't seen any spam for it yet
[21:55] <LjL> JoseeAntonioR: we aren't going to warn people in advance not to join it, because that would just advertize it, which we don't want. we'll deal with it as we get reports of people being invited into it
[21:55] <pangolin> There is nothing we can do about the channel, that would be up to freenode staff. All we can do is tell people not to advertise it in our namespace
[21:56] <h00k> "Don't touch, wet paint," etc
[21:56] <JoseeAntonioR> ok, thanks for the help
[21:57] <pangolin> thank you for the repor.........
[21:57] <pangolin> algo mas?
[21:58] <JoseeAntonioR> no, nada por el momento, gracias :)
[21:58] <pangolin> ok, then please read the channel topic and not idle in here JoseeAntonioR :)
[22:02] <h00k> 2
[22:02] <h00k> bah.
[22:03] <pangolin> saxophone is cooler
[22:06] <h00k> okay, I actually lol'd
[22:07] <pangolin> :)
[23:38] <BarkingFish> evening ops, just a quick note, can you watch padmee in #ubuntu please? They're pm'ing me with requests to join other channels.
[23:38] <BarkingFish> Don't know whether they're doing it to anyone else though
[23:40] <BarkingFish> yep, they are doing it to other people.  urlin2u is complaining too :)
[23:40] <pangolin> thanks
[23:40] <BarkingFish> right, I'll leave you in peace. Cheers
[23:40] <Myrtti> quite