[00:32] <yothsoggoth> On the mailing list, is top or bottom posting preferred? I remember there being a big discussion about it a while ago, but I can't remember the outcome
[02:28] <IdleOne> I prefer top posting
[02:31] <Azelphur> man, my life was almost over for a second there XD
[02:31] <Azelphur> 8800GT finally gave up...I almost had to go down to two monitors
[02:31] <Azelphur> but I got the 9500GT out of the TV and I'm back in business
[02:36] <ging> out of the TV?
[05:47] <ali1234> http://ubuntuone.com/6N2DJGKmKBS6yovnomH9GG
[05:47] <ali1234> WHY IS IT SO BIG?
[05:49] <Knightwise> good marketing !
[05:49] <ali1234> i bet it doesn't do that on unity
[05:50] <ali1234> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=315893
[05:51] <ali1234> hmm,nope
[05:53]  * Knightwise sighs .. Conky .. me love you and your freaky dials
[05:58] <ali1234> well this is odd
[06:05] <Knightwise> does anybody know if its hard to recompile conky for ppc ?
[06:05] <Knightwise> i would like to get those dails running on my G4 imac
[06:22] <ali1234> ah, i found the problem
[06:22] <ali1234> it's a bug in supermeatboy packaging
[06:26] <Knightwise> supermeatboy
[06:26] <Knightwise> sounds ... wrong :p
[06:26] <ali1234> "Super Meat Boy is a tough as nails platformer where you play as an
[06:26] <ali1234> animated cube of meat who's trying to save his girlfriend (who
[06:26] <ali1234> happens to be made of bandages) from an evil fetus in a jar wearing a
[06:26] <ali1234> tux."
[06:28] <Knightwise> i think LSD is part of the game designers foodgroups
[06:30] <ali1234> hmm i think i borked launchpad
[06:31] <ali1234> i can sort of see supermeatboy if i go to "also affects distribution" and search for it, but i can't add it because it isn't in any distribution
[06:35] <ali1234> bug 1010336
[07:06] <diplo> Morning all
[07:09] <DJones> Morning
[07:49] <mattt> morning all
[07:54] <christel> good morning pretties
[07:54] <czajkowski> aloha
[07:54] <czajkowski> christel: hows you my dearest?
[07:54] <christel> i am well! thyself? :)
[07:54] <czajkowski> not bad
[07:55] <czajkowski> I may strangle the mothership
[07:55] <christel> oooh? :)
[08:01] <AlanBell> morning all
[08:10] <christel> good morning AlanBell :)
[08:13] <ali1234> does anyone know where super meat boy saves game data?
[08:19] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: "strings" the binary and grep? ;)
[08:22] <Knightwise> morrrnin
[08:24]  * Ng sulks at the Orange San Diego. I was all excited about the idea of grabbing a Medfield device for £200, but it's running an ancient Android version :<
[08:25] <diplo> Ng: They are upgrading it shortly from what I read
[08:25] <Ng> diplo: oh really
[08:26] <MartijnVdS> howdy Knightwise
[08:26] <diplo> yeah, trying to find my source :)
[08:27] <Ng> 'Asked if San Diego buyers could expect an Ice Cream Sandwich upgrade this summer, [general manager of Intel’s Mobile and Communications Group] Bell replied: “The next quarter is my guess.”'
[08:27] <diplo> hough an Orange representative told us that Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich (ICS) will arrive, but only in October, at which point Android 4.0 ICS will have been out for almost a year.
[08:27] <diplo> Source: The Inquirer (http://s.tt/1d4MW)
[08:27] <Ng> ouch
[08:28] <Ng> that's so insane
[08:28] <Ng> Jelly Bean will be announced in like 3 weeks and will presumably ship in about October
[08:28] <Ng> I wonder if you can root it and install a vanilla image
[08:29] <diplo> I'd say 99% likely hood, all depends whether xda devs or cyagen mods get their hands on one
[08:29] <diplo> I guess
[08:29] <popey> is that the intel phone?
[08:30] <popey> why on earth would you want such a thing?
[08:30] <diplo> Cheapness I guess
[08:30] <Ng> popey: I'm curious at the idea of a tiny £200 x86 device with all sorts of radios and a built-in UPS
[08:31] <Ng> popey: also, tony is in the office!
[08:35] <popey> he is!
[08:37] <JamesTait> Happy Friday, folks! :)
[08:41] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:41] <czajkowski> whoo 3 day weeks fly :)
[08:57]  * AlanBell votes for more 3 day weeks
[08:59] <christel> yes, lets have one every week
[09:00] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:02] <ali1234> popey: what do you think of this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1010336 is it really a bug?
[09:02]  * diplo +1's AlanBell :)
[09:02] <gord> can we also have some bank holidays still so then there are 2 day weeks?
[09:02] <diplo> Such great ideas!!
[09:02] <diplo> :P
[09:03] <diplo> Well I am much more knowledgeable on uefi
[09:04] <popey> ali1234: not sure.. maybe ask in #launchpad ?
[09:06]  * AlanBell installs the U1 "are you even trying?" indicator
[09:08] <daubers> o/
[09:09] <bigcalm> AlanBell: the what now?
[09:09] <diplo> daubers: All moved in to new place now ?
[09:09] <daubers> diplo: More or less. Dropping off the keys to the old flat at lunchtime
[09:09] <daubers> about a dozen boxes left to sort out
[09:09] <ali1234> U1 is acting weird with publishing files again
[09:09] <ali1234> it keeps forgetting that a file is published if i reopen nautilus
[09:10] <diplo> Nice, it's good once everything is complete
[09:10] <AlanBell> bigcalm: U1 takes days to upload files for me (I added a folder on sunday, it completed on tuesday)
[09:10] <bigcalm> Nice
[09:10] <AlanBell> I added some stuff to the folder yesterday and it is still "starting"
[09:11] <popey> → #ubuntuone
[09:12] <bigcalm> This is an odd situation. I really can't do any work until I get replies from two emails. Maybe I should have some breakfast
[09:13]  * bigcalm zooms off to subway :D
[09:38] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:43] <MartijnVdS> \o
[09:43] <brobostigon> o/
[10:09] <davmor2> morning all
[10:15]  * gord has weird diy japanese candy mid morning snack
[10:15]  * AlanBell dips into the official company biscuit tin
[10:16]  * gord calls embezzlement on AlanBell
[10:17] <AlanBell> anyone got tips on things to monitor with nagios?
[10:17] <AlanBell> doing number of users/load/disk space/number of procs at the moment
[10:17] <AlanBell> just working out how to do memory/swap
[10:17] <diplo> AlanBell: I do basics until the needs arises, so anything that may cause the server we are using issues
[10:18] <diplo> I don't go full on with every server
[10:18] <diplo> So a lot I just monitor that they are up and running, and / or that vital services are running like httpd etc
[10:19] <Laney> bristol: a wet and windy city.
[10:20] <diplo> It was awful last night Laney
[10:20] <diplo> Drove back from the cinema there, trees/branches etc everywhere :/
[10:21] <Laney> indeed
[10:21] <Laney> this is my first time visiting \o/
[10:21] <diplo> Bath is nicer, not a great fan of Bristol
[10:21] <diplo> Work or play?
[10:21] <Laney> play
[10:22] <diplo> Visiting anywhere in particular ?
[10:22] <diplo> I live about 20 miles away I guess, otherside of Bath
[10:24] <Laney> no really specific plans
[10:24] <Laney> we have a friend who runs a cafe, will be visiting their today
[10:24] <Laney> otherwise various explorations. someone recommended we check out the 'bear pit'
[10:25] <Laney> gotta dash! speak later
[10:25] <diplo> have fun!
[10:35] <arsen_> AlanBell  - are you setting it up for the first time? i'd research icinga if i were you, having spent years suffering nagios :P
[10:36] <AlanBell> arsen_: well I wanted to use stuff in the repos
[10:36] <arsen_> though you can monitor any infrastructure, from exchange mail queues to simple server stats, cross site is always important to ensure nagios is up, as are other locations
[10:36] <AlanBell> exchange mail queues is something I don't need to worry about :)
[10:36] <arsen_> uptime, disks, mem, load, tcp ports and running services (apache/postfix/sendmail whatever)
[10:37] <AlanBell> and yeah, the nagios server is not where the things being monitored are
[10:37] <arsen_> also mk multisite is worth a look too.
[10:37] <arsen_> rrdtool for graphs also.
[10:37] <AlanBell> would like some more pretty graphs
[10:38] <AlanBell> nagios is kind of traffic lights only rather than squiggly graphs from what I have seen so far
[10:39] <popey> cacti
[10:39] <arsen_> http://docs.pnp4nagios.org/pnp-0.6/start
[10:40] <popey> for graphs
[10:40] <arsen_> pnp4nagios is also popular
[10:40] <arsen_> cacti was what i was trying to remmeber earlier :D
[10:40] <arsen_> there's another opensource graphing system i cant remember what it's called :/
[10:40] <arsen_> but its awesome for building quick graphs and overlaying multiple sources etc
[10:41] <diplo> AlanBell: Not sure if you saw my message a few days ago but Icinga do have a PPA
[10:41] <daubers> I never liked cacti (or rrdtool)
[10:41] <diplo> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/icinga
[10:41] <arsen_> maybe i was thinking of graphpite
[10:41] <AlanBell> yeah, so not in the repos ;)
[10:42] <arsen_> icinga is a fork, looks much more modern
[10:42] <arsen_> nagios is a bit clunky in the way it works, check_mk is much better if you're going to use it extensively
[10:42] <AlanBell> what do you install on the things you are monitoring for icinga?
[10:43] <AlanBell> does it talk to the nagios-nrpe-server agent or have it's own thing?
[10:44] <arsen_> not sure :)
[10:44] <arsen_> ive just been advised to look into icinga
[10:45] <diplo> I keep meaning to try it, but Nagios works ok :)
[10:53] <mungojerry> when i connect a wired network connection, the option to connect to a vpn goes away..normal?
[10:58] <popey> bug 115750 perhaps?
[10:58] <popey> no
[10:59] <popey> bug 980555
[11:03] <mungojerry> cheers popey, i'm running gnome-failback so i'll log out later to try in unity3d
[11:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> I had the VPN settings thing disappear on me. IIRC after a restart it came back.
[11:13] <mungojerry> TheOpenSourcerer, on a wired connection?
[11:13] <mungojerry> i see it on wireless
[11:24] <mungojerry> TheOpenSourcerer, works after a restart, cheers :D
[11:24] <mungojerry> bit buggy that
[11:27] <jussi> DJones: btw, is your first name david?
[11:28] <DJones> Yep
[11:29] <mungojerry> i'll be glad when this debconf window stops appearing multiple times while installing packages in software center. has plagued me on loads of machines i've used
[11:29] <mungojerry> (know bug)
[11:31] <jussi> so then you are "Davey Jones" ? :D
[11:32] <DJones> Yes, I was the Monkey that couldn't sing, lost my locker and changed my name to david bowie
[13:09] <gord> ah, so overcast you have to put the lights on, this is the british summer i know
[13:10] <bigcalm> \o/
[13:11] <bigcalm> gord: coming to the workplace day next week?
[13:12] <gord> not if the weather is like this ;) where is it now anyway? thought we got kicked out of the little area
[13:15] <davmor2> gord: it's in the cafe bit
[13:15] <bigcalm> We're in the cafe, it's ok
[13:15] <davmor2> gord: much warmer
[13:16] <bigcalm> Heh
[13:17] <gord> do we not have anywhere else we can go? i mean if we are gonna be in the cafe we might as well be in starbucks or something that has nicer coffee ;)
[13:17] <davmor2> mungojerry's nick still makes me think of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc9wIzi96_E
[13:18] <bigcalm> gord: and much more expensive?
[13:25] <bigcalm> I get the feeling that the people I'm emailing are at lunch
[13:25] <bigcalm> Maybe I should do the same
[13:44] <oimon2> the next version of windows server will have metro UI LOL
[13:46] <diplo> Really?!?
[13:47] <diplo> I thought with things like core they might slowly drop some of the swishy stuff that I thought might make it's way
[13:47] <oimon2> thats what a MS person told me
[13:47] <christel> CHOO CHOO
[13:48] <oimon2> means they aren't just planningthat it is used  for tablets
[13:48] <diplo> Did you say, 'Dear god NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!' Or of that ilk ?
[13:48] <AlanBell> don't see why a server shouldn't have a UI
[13:48] <diplo> Not against a UI, just not metro
[13:48] <AlanBell> the novell netware server had an excellent server UI
[13:48] <AlanBell> are you on a train christel?
[13:48] <popey> ahhhh, netware 3.. happy days
[13:49] <diplo> In my Ubuntu Server survery I said I really think they should make more admin tools for servers for the GUI using Rapache as an example
[13:49] <christel> no, i just excitedly remembered we will go on the RAT soon-ish!
[13:49] <christel> \o/
[13:49] <diplo> My compnay I used to work for would have more happily used it I reckon, just didn't like me and colleague being the only ones who could 'do' CLI stuff
[13:50] <oimon2> i'm setting up some windows infrastrcture. it takes 30 VMs to do what about 3-5 would do on linux
[13:50] <AlanBell> netware 3.12 with a 50Ω terminator that goes on your keyring
[13:50] <AlanBell> christel: yay, RAT
[13:50] <christel> hooray :D
[13:50] <diplo> I only ever saw Novell roaming profiles stuff at Wiltshire college and that was about as close as I ever got to it
[13:52] <davmor2> I hate windows it takes so long to do anything with it
[13:52] <diplo> Dunno, I think all these things have there places.
[13:56] <diplo> When you receive an email, the time that you get in the client is picked up from when the email was sent, or when it was received to the client or the mail server ?
[13:56] <diplo> I've just received an email timed 08:11, but it's 14:56
[13:56] <diplo> Never had this before, so not looked into it :)
[13:56] <AlanBell> diplo: view the full headers, there is normally a heap of timestamps
[13:57] <diplo> yeah, time is 13:58 or something close to that, was my first port of call
[13:57] <diplo> Was wondering where the 8am part was read from
[13:57] <diplo> Checked the time on the mail server as well, and had a few other emails
[13:57]  * diplo goggles
[13:58] <oimon2> this wind is crazt
[13:58] <oimon2> considering it's june
[13:59] <oimon2> had to work from home cos a tree blew on my line...it's like an epsiode of thomas the tank engine
[13:59] <diplo> I drove back from the cinema last night near 11:30 ish
[13:59] <oimon2> working from home is great cos every 1/2 hour my 2yr old runs in for a cuddle and to jump on me
[13:59] <diplo> Branches / trees down all over
[14:00] <oimon2> the rain is sideways atm
[14:02] <DJones> oimon2: Are you lying on your side? The rain here is vertical
[14:03] <DJones> There's hardly any wind near us
[14:05] <diplo> Blowing a gail nr bath
[14:05] <diplo> had a few branches off big tree here today
[14:05] <diplo> not as bad as oimon2 though
[14:05] <DJones> oimon2: Where abouts are you
[14:06] <oimon2> ewww i think i might have to reinstall this box, since installing xfce , my unity notifcations have become xfce ones
[14:06] <oimon2> n london DJones
[14:07] <DJones> That explains it, its down south :) One of the people I work with was invited to a wedding on teh south coast today but couldn't go, a beach wedding, definately not the best day for that
[14:08] <oimon2> it's like october
[14:13] <oimon2> why does everyone on my train have "beats" headphones?
[14:14] <gord> because they are damn good. also mr Dre sponsors them
[14:15] <oimon2> how does everyone know they are good ?
[14:15] <oimon2> and are they better than the rest?
[14:15] <oimon2> ipod earphones are terrible, but everyone wore those
[14:15] <gord> review sites? trying them on from a friend?
[14:15] <gord> i tried on a friends
[14:15] <gord> bass is incredible, no headphones i ever tried can reproduce the bass quite like them
[14:16] <yothsoggoth> personally I usually choose headphones that I like the look of, most of my music is terrible quality anyway because I'm too lazy to re-rip all the stuff I ripped years ago
[14:16] <oimon2> bass is overated :P
[14:16] <diplo> Owned by HTC now aren't they, or did they just license it
[14:17] <oimon2> 50% owned
[14:17] <gord> they probably just licence it
[14:17] <oimon2> i'm surprised because headphones onthe train used to be uncommon
[14:18] <oimon2> then suddenly everyone has them
[14:18] <oimon2> even plugged in their phone (therefore probably low qualioty encoding)
[14:19] <gord> those particular headphones are a luxury though, much more expensive then they are worth
[14:19] <diplo> May take a look, I want a decent set for the bike/walking
[14:19] <oimon2> ah ok
[14:19] <oimon2> so partly a fashion /status symvol
[14:19] <gord> they are fantastic, but not worth what you pay
[14:20] <oimon2> how much are they?
[14:21] <oimon2> i do sound engineering on the weekends, but headphone quality is something slightly different when you're on the mixing desk
[14:21] <gord> £223 on amazon
[14:21] <oimon2> oof
[14:21] <gord> 150 quid for the smaller ones
[14:21] <gord> the 223 is on offer too, normally £279.95
[14:22] <oimon2> quite different from the naff ipod ear piece
[14:22] <oimon2> with their nasty leaky sound
[14:23] <diplo> I spent £80 on my headphones for gaming ten years ago and it nearly made me cry
[14:23] <gord> ipod earphones are just terrible, no idea why anyone would subject themselves to those
[14:23] <diplo> But were and probably still are the best pair I ever bought
[14:23] <oimon2> it's like they are inside out
[14:23] <diplo> But £223 is just to extreme for me
[14:23] <oimon2> i like sennheiser
[14:23] <diplo> I'm stuck with ipod ones at the mo, lost my others :(
[14:23] <diplo> These were Plantronics, not even sure if it's still going
[14:24] <oimon2> i wonder how much the dre fella gets for having his name on them. it's not like he made them or anyting
[14:24] <diplo> USB set that had some gizmo to make it sound better within the cable
[14:24] <gord> sennheiser are great, but i've had a niggle that annoys me about every single set of sennheiser cans i bought... it bugs me enough until i upgrade to a more expensive pair. its a scam i tell you
[14:24] <oimon2> what niggle?
[14:24] <gord> oh my current pair, the bass is pretty terrible
[14:24] <oimon2> i have some of their cheap in ear ones
[14:25] <gord> for in ear stuff i've found sony to be better for a similar price
[14:25] <oimon2> pretty happy except when the cable bounces against my jacket it makes noise
[14:25] <gord> but i don't get in ear anymore, they never come with detachable leads so they die far too quickly
[14:26] <oimon2> my colleague has detachable ones
[14:27] <gord> using http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-MDR-NC60-Quality-Cancelling-Headphones/dp/B000OQ5OO mostly these days, fantastic for the plane
[14:28] <oimon2> working from home is a fail when the adsl keeps going wobbly
[14:29] <diplo> £85 :(
[14:29] <czajkowski> thats not bad
[14:29] <diplo> Can't wait till I'm better off again
[14:29] <czajkowski> if you use something a lot and it's good and comfortable why not pay for it
[14:29] <czajkowski> and quality is important imo
[14:29] <czajkowski> I'd rather pay more for something than replace something over and over as it was cheap
[14:30] <diplo> Oh I would, but I now live on £300 a month after bills to feed me and kids and fuel. It's a got to be seriously needed for me to buy stuff now :(
[14:30] <oimon2> mine cost around £20 and are quite good imo
[14:30] <czajkowski> diplo: nods
[14:30] <gord> czajkowski, yeah, i was paying way too much replacing cheap rubbish every year, these have lasted a good while and will last a good while longer
[14:31] <diplo> Appointment with mortage advisor on Tuesday though
[14:31]  * oimon2 keeps stuff like new
[14:31] <oimon2> for years
[14:31]  * diplo hopes to be £250 better off at the end of July each month
[14:31] <oimon2> IBM remote console =epic fail
[14:32] <czajkowski> gord: until the cat gets at them and chews them
[14:32] <daubers> diplo: New house? Or just remortgage?
[14:32] <gord> czajkowski, replaceable lead :) just get another 3.5mm cable and fixed
[14:32] <czajkowski> heh
[14:33] <czajkowski> my orange ones have an uber long cable
[14:33] <czajkowski> very handy till I forget they ar eplugged in and go walk about and yank em off my noggin
[14:33] <diplo> Remortage daubers
[14:34] <diplo> My five year fixed finishes on July 31st
[14:34] <oimon2> if my adsl goes down due to high errors, noise etc and requires reboot, would you blame the  line or the modem?
[14:34] <diplo> Paying £850 a month at the mo, last time I spoke to them they were sure it would be more like £600
[14:34] <gord> both
[14:34] <diplo> Will be the best thing that's happened to me in the last two years
[14:35] <diplo> May be able to afford to come out to one of the next meet ups then
[14:35] <daubers> diplo: \o/
[14:35] <diplo> Not used to living on nothing, was a big wake up call
[14:47] <ali1234> oimon yes, both
[14:47] <ali1234> actually it is most likely caused by incompatibility between your modem and the dslam
[14:47] <oimon2> i don't usually get errors
[14:48] <ali1234> it only just started happening?
[14:48] <oimon2> but suddenly after 20hrs my line goes down and a reboot of the modem fixes it
[14:48] <oimon2> not really, been happening for ages
[14:48] <ali1234> ok
[14:48] <ali1234> so that's typical
[14:48] <oimon2> i just don't notice it much cos i'm at work in the day
[14:48] <ali1234> you don't get errors, it just stops working, usually in the middle of the day
[14:48] <ali1234> this is exactly what happened to me
[14:49] <oimon2> day or night, i do get errors
[14:49] <oimon2> when i check the status page there are
[14:49] <ali1234> yes but errors are recoverable
[14:49] <Azelphur> my poor 8800GT suffered a serious case of melting. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/June/IMG_20120607_151219.jpg :(
[14:49] <ali1234> so, what modem do you have and what type of ADSL?
[14:49] <oimon2> there are CRC error up and FEC down values quite high
[14:49] <oimon2> hauwei hg250b and talk talk
[14:50] <ali1234> basically what happened was something like this
[14:50] <ali1234> first there was ADSL and everything was fine
[14:51] <ali1234> they they made ADSL2+, and there are two manufacturers of DSLAM
[14:51] <ali1234> and they're supposed to be compatible, but they are not
[14:51] <ali1234> ADSL2+ modems are all designed to work with one or the other because, funnily enough, their chipsets are designed by the same people as the DSLAMs
[14:52] <ali1234> if you mix them, you get exactly what you are seeing: disconnections every few hours that require a reboot
[14:52] <ali1234> and then you also have the ADSL modems with firmware upgrades to support 2+ which do exactly the same thing
[14:52] <oimon2> talktalk specify only certain modems to work with their service
[14:53] <oimon2> although i've had mine a while so maybe they've moved on
[14:53] <ali1234> and also ADSL2+ modems forced to use ADSL(1) because of a bad quality line will also do it
[14:53] <oimon2> they supplie the modem
[14:53] <oimon2> it's a ADSL2 one
[14:53] <ali1234> so, if your line is ADSL(1) you won't get disconnections with an ADSL(1) modem, but you will with an ADSL2+ one
[14:54] <oimon2> its a adsl2 line
[14:54] <oimon2> well i assume..
[14:55] <ali1234> so given all that nonsense, this is what happened to me
[14:55] <ali1234> my ISP was ADSL(1)
[14:55] <ali1234> then they moved to ADSL2+ and my modem mysteriously started disconnecting me
[14:55] <ali1234> then i discovered all of the above and bought a new one
[14:55] <oimon2> ah,m thats differnt
[14:56] <ali1234> but something else: when the ISP switched, they also switched to unbundled
[14:56] <oimon2> talktalk gave me a modem that works with their adsl2 service
[14:56] <oimon2> however 3 years later i wonder if stuff has changed
[14:56] <ali1234> before they used BT DSLAMs, after they used cable and wireless
[14:56] <ali1234> and guess what... BT and C&W use the two incompatible systems
[14:56] <ali1234> and of course this happened when they got bought by another bigger ISP
[14:57] <ali1234> another thing is that the ISP likes to tweak the training algorithm to give you absolute maximum speed at the cost of stability
[14:58] <ali1234> so the line gets more and more unstable over time, until you ring up and complain and they manually lower it
[14:58] <oimon2> maybe thats the case
[14:58] <oimon2> i've never rung my isp
[14:58] <ali1234> talktalk are pretty useless
[14:58] <ali1234> you ring them and they are really helpful and seem to understand and say they'll fix it, and then nothing happens... repeatedly
[14:59] <dogmatic69> cant log into clients server... 'Too many authentication failures for root'. obviously they use the 'root' account, with ssh on 22 with pw login
[15:00] <ali1234> hey, is there a website like etherpad, but it's a hexeditor?
[15:01] <diplo> dogmatic69: They do here where I work :/
[15:01] <diplo> Slowly getting them to change
[15:05] <dogmatic69> :/
[15:05] <dogmatic69> is there a way to clear this so I can scp? I am logged in on another terminal so can do anything needed
[15:05] <diplo> Remove from known_hosts?
[15:05]  * dogmatic69 installed fail2ban in the mean time, changed ssh keys
[15:05] <dogmatic69> ?
[15:05] <dogmatic69> how will that help?
[15:06] <diplo> not sure actually, thinking of soemthing else
[15:06] <diplo> :D
[15:06] <diplo> 2 secs
[15:06] <diplo> normally when I get that it just disconnects, not stops me from logging on
[15:06] <dogmatic69> there must be a log / counter on the box that says user root failed x logins
[15:06] <diplo> need fail2ban or the like to stop it i thought
[15:06] <dogmatic69> ye, 'received disconnect from <ip> too many auth failures for root'
[15:07] <ali1234> what can it mean? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1030504/
[15:07] <diplo> MaxAuthTries 30
[15:07] <dogmatic69> is that in ssh?
[15:07] <dogmatic69> ssh config*
[15:08] <diplo> ssh -vvv and get the verbose output
[15:08] <diplo> yeah
[15:08] <diplo> But I'd see what it's actually doing
[15:08] <dogmatic69> ah, I will just make that 5000 or something for now
[15:08] <diplo> Do you want to login as root ?
[15:11] <dogmatic69> diplo: that is the only account
[15:11] <dogmatic69> ssh -vvv does some handshake, offers a few keys then dies
[15:12] <diplo> PermitRootLogin is set to yes in /etc/ssh/sshd_config ?
[15:14] <dogmatic69> been using the account for days like this
[15:15] <Azelphur> Hmm, Nautilus isn't showing any of my drives
[15:15] <Azelphur> and when I go to "Go > Computer" it says "Nautilus cannot handle "computer" locations"
[15:15] <diplo> Restarted sshd yet dogmatic69 ?
[15:16] <diplo> drive=`echo -n $drivelong|cut -c2-$endchar|small`
[15:16] <diplo> Anyone know what small is ?
[15:16] <AlanBell> small is one of Rabbit's friends and relations
[15:20] <diplo> bah, internal script :/
[15:25] <dogmatic69> diplo: ye
[15:25] <dogmatic69> not made a diff
[15:27] <diplo> and upped the max permitted logins ?
[15:34] <dogmatic69> no
[15:34] <dogmatic69> My internet is messing about
[15:34] <dogmatic69> damn terminal keeps locking up
[15:39] <DJones> popey: You were looking for a case for you pi http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/1354
[15:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> Quick q for python gurus...how do I open then iterate over a file (containing a json structure) like this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1030569/
[15:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have the simplejson module
[15:48] <ali1234> easy
[15:48] <ali1234> simplejson gives you a dictionary object
[15:49] <ali1234> according to that paste you have a dictionary with one object called "data" which is a list of dictionaries
[15:50] <ali1234> so you'd do for item in json['data']: for key,value in item.iterkeys(): print key, value
[15:51] <ali1234> more likely though, if it's a list of similar objects, you just want to iterate the top level list
[15:52] <TheOpenSourcerer>     for item in json['data']:
[15:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> TypeError: 'module' object has no attribute '__getitem__'
[15:52] <ali1234> um
[15:52] <ali1234> yeah don't call it json
[15:52] <ali1234> call it my_json_response
[15:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oh I see.
[15:54] <ali1234> to actually read the file you do simplejson.loads(file('filename', 'r').read())
[15:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm, I am doing
[15:54] <ali1234> and then that returns the my_json_object you need
[15:54] <TheOpenSourcerer>     json_data = json.load(open('test.json'))
[15:54] <ali1234> wrong
[15:55] <ali1234> well, apparently that does work too
[15:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> nah - I'm getting:
[15:56] <TheOpenSourcerer>     for item in json_data['data']:
[15:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> KeyError: 'data'
[15:57] <ali1234> it's probably nested somehow
[15:57] <ali1234> just print the whole thing
[15:57] <ali1234> print json_data
[15:57] <ali1234> and see what it says
[15:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks - my bad... Wrong file :-(
[15:59] <ali1234> just remember [] means list and {} means dictionary. and you iterate a dictionary with iteritems() iterkeys() or itervalues()
[16:00] <ali1234> and if you forget this stuff you can just open python console and do help({}) or help([])
[16:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> ty
[16:01]  * TheOpenSourcerer now goes and googles "ValueError: too many values to unpack"
[16:02] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: that means you have fewer (or more) values before the = than after
[16:02] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: (a, b) = (c, d, e)
[16:03] <ali1234> if you do: for x in d.iteritems(): you will see that
[16:03] <ali1234> because iteritems() returns (key, value) tuples
[16:03] <ali1234> oh wait, no you won't
[16:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1030591/
[16:03] <ali1234> it will just put them in x
[16:04] <ali1234> however, if you put x, you would :)
[16:04] <ali1234> hmm are all items really dicts?
[16:04] <ali1234> maybe some are lists?
[16:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> It's a fairly big file... 3.5MB
[16:05] <ali1234> you can never tell with json... it is freeform
[16:05] <ali1234> which line errors?
[16:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> I need to iterate over it and then send "row" each line over REST
[16:06] <TheOpenSourcerer>         for key,value in item.iterkeys():
[16:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> That one ^--^
[16:06] <ali1234> oh wait
[16:06] <ali1234> iteritems()
[16:06] <ali1234> not keys
[16:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> ah.
[16:06] <ali1234> iterkeys() just gives you... they keys and not the values
[16:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yay :-)
[16:09] <ali1234> hmm... why would you make a file format that has array length followed by the array items, and then include a load of empty 0 values?
[16:09] <ali1234> it makes no sense
[16:10] <ali1234> either null pad it, or hrow away the 0s
[16:10] <bigcalm> 2-3 hoursish to pub o'clock. Damn you time for being so slow
[16:11] <MartijnVdS> vr jun  8 18:11:50 CEST 2012
[16:12]  * bigcalm tickles MartijnVdS  with some i18n
[16:13] <MartijnVdS> Fri Jun  8 18:13:18 CEST 2012
[16:13] <bigcalm> :D
[16:15] <bigcalm> I like that i18n is correct for both British and American English
[16:17]  * bigcalm grrs at mysql
[16:17] <bigcalm> Help is welcomed ;)
[16:18]  * christel helps bigcalm grr
[16:18] <bigcalm> I can use GROUP BY to limit the data I get back from a query, but it ignores an ORDER BY and always returns the same result :(
[16:18] <bigcalm> christel: oh, yes please :D
[16:19] <christel> ;)
[16:23]  * bigcalm kippers mysql
[16:23] <bigcalm> Don't need this on a Friday evening
[16:29] <davmor2> bigcalm: you know one of these days I'm going to meet your mrs and I'm gonna tell her that you "yes please" other women on irc channels :P
[16:32] <bigcalm> Spoil sport
[16:58] <Azelphur> wow, first release of conky in 2 years :o
[17:02] <directhex> is it a particularly conky release, filled with extra conkitude?
[17:03] <Azelphur> I believe so :o
[17:10] <dogmatic69> about to signup for bt infinity. any recommendations? Requirements are phone + fastest internet possible :)
[17:11] <directhex> dogmatic69, it's fine, as long as you never need to talk to a human.
[17:11] <directhex> dogmatic69, bt's support is dreadful, but the service works great
[17:12] <AlanBell> dogmatic69: plus.net is the same thing
[17:12] <AlanBell> but with less obnoxious customer service
[17:12] <directhex> dogmatic69, oh, one tip: the "lots of roaming wifi" they include has a smallprint requirement: you need to offer your home wifi up as a public hotspot. which is opt-out.
[17:13] <directhex> AlanBell, and with a bandwidth cap.
[17:13] <AlanBell> of 120GB
[17:13] <directhex> at 80mbit, that's gone pretty quick
[17:14] <directhex> less than 4 hours, on my 76mbit connection, in fact
[17:14] <ing_> hello everybody! i have a bad problem with the installation!
[17:15] <ing_> actually i have a totally new pc...a FUJITSU ESPRIMO HP300
[17:16] <ing_> it is totally new and i'm not new with ubuntu. So, i have big problem 'cause when i put the installation cd inside and the pc start to load from cd everything stop to work
[17:17] <dogmatic69> directhex: my mom has been with them about 5 year, never had to call support as it just works
[17:17] <ing_> the keyboard freeze and in the screen some not usefull lines are showed
[17:17] <AlanBell> directhex: I have been using about 50GB per month
[17:17] <dogmatic69> directhex: using public wifi is nasty, dont know where that has been
[17:18] <ing_> so, there is anybody that could help me?
[17:18] <dogmatic69> ing_: what version?
[17:18] <AlanBell> ing_: is the installation CD known to be good?
[17:19] <ing_> the last one and i try with the same cd that i used with another pc!
[17:19] <ing_> so...the cd is working
[17:19] <ing_> the pc is totally new
[17:19] <ing_> i bought it today!
[17:20] <ing_> (sorry for my english, i'm italian)
[17:20] <AlanBell> !it
[17:20] <AlanBell> what point in the install does it fail?
[17:21] <ing_> at the begining!! :(
[17:21] <AlanBell> black screen or purple screen with the vitruvian man and keyboard?
[17:22] <davmor2> ing_: do you have a usb pen drive and is it using UEFI instead of the old type bios?
[17:22] <ing_> the last row the i can read is [4.344054] [(fffffff816664a82)] system_call_fastpath+0x16/0x1b
[17:22] <ing_> no usb no other device!
[17:23] <MartijnVdS> ooh a kernel crash?
[17:23] <ing_> only the native fujitsu keyboard and mouse!
[17:23] <ing_> i put the cd inside, i start the pc...
[17:23] <ing_> and i have soon this problem!
[17:25] <ing_> this is a big problem i think! it must be fixed!!!
[17:26] <AlanBell> it is a 12.04 CD right?
[17:26] <ing_> yep! cd is perfect!
[17:27] <ing_> i used it on my lenovo! and it was working!
[17:27] <AlanBell> yeah, and it is 12.04
[17:27] <ing_> so..cd is not the problem!
[17:27] <MartijnVdS> It could be a driver bug. The lenovo has different hardware, so might not trigger the bug.
[17:27] <ing_> is the 12.04!
[17:27] <MartijnVdS> the "system_call_fastpath" bit indicates it's a kernel panic/oops
[17:27] <ing_> yes...but i need ubuntuuuuuu! =)
[17:28] <ing_> =(
[17:28] <ing_> how i can do??
[17:29] <MartijnVdS> there are some kernel command line options you can try
[17:29] <MartijnVdS> they'll probably impact system performance/battery life/etc. but at least the system will work
[17:29] <MartijnVdS> try "noacpi" first.
[17:29] <AlanBell> ing_: do you have a link to the detailed spec of the machine you bought?
[17:30] <MartijnVdS> it could also be a "BIOS mode" vs "UEFI mode" bios bug
[17:30] <directhex> ing_, the CD you downloaded. 32 or 64 bit?
[17:32] <AlanBell> I think it must be a PH300 rather than an HP300
[17:33] <directhex> AlanBell, yeah, can't see an HP300 anywhere
[18:05] <directhex> https://twitter.com/directhex/status/211143325095432192
[18:06] <MartijnVdS> directhex: Installed-Size in "packages", is that kb?
[18:07] <MartijnVdS> ah wait
[18:07] <MartijnVdS> you're already addressing Perl :)
[18:07] <directhex> MartijnVdS, er, i think so, but those numbers are usually wrong.
[18:07] <directhex> MartijnVdS, my numbers are directly from aptitude - http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?71340-Microsoft-Hosts-GNOME-amp-Mono-Festival-of-Love&p=267139#post267139
[18:08] <MartijnVdS> directhex: ah
[18:08] <directhex> MartijnVdS, i don't know when we managed to be smaller than python-minimal, but we're smaller than python-minimal :D
[18:09] <MartijnVdS> directhex: Perl is already installed ;)
[18:09] <directhex> MartijnVdS, i don't define the Required: package set
[18:10] <MartijnVdS> sure but it's a "proper" language, which has an installed-size
[18:10] <directhex> MartijnVdS, but those are the smallest installs to run helloworld.py, helloworld.rb, helloworld.exe, helloworld.class on a debian chroot
[18:11] <directhex> java always makes me lol
[18:11] <MartijnVdS> yes that's _hewge_
[18:12] <MartijnVdS> but apparently, that's "Enterprise"
[18:16] <directhex> MartijnVdS, that's the "headless" package, full is bigger :D
[18:16] <directhex> but the number is nonsense, since it pulls all of X in
[18:16] <MartijnVdS> because it depends on X?
[18:17] <MartijnVdS> Y U DEPEND ON X
[18:17] <ali1234> can you actually run anything at all with mono-minimal?
[18:18] <ali1234> i'm damn sure you can't compile anything
[18:20] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: "hello world", and that's it ;P
[18:27] <ali1234> that's not a bad test actually. how much do i need to install to compile and run c# vs python hello world?
[18:27] <ali1234> (and java and ruby and all the others)
[18:30] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: check his tweet :)
[18:31] <ali1234> i checked it
[18:31] <ali1234> i don't believe you can compile c# with only mono-runtime
[18:31] <ali1234> and therefore it isn't a fair comparison
[18:32] <ali1234> of course we all know java is massively bloated. no surprises there.
[18:37] <ali1234> the splitting of mono into 201 distinct packages isn't much to shout about either. it just makes it incredibly difficult to tell what you need to install, so everyone just installs mono-complete because it's the easiest way to make things work
[18:38] <ali1234> nobody is using mono to run packaged applications because, as pointed out, they all have better alternatives
[18:39] <ali1234> people are using it to run windows software for which there is no alternative. since it's windows software, it nearly always runs very badly in mono
[18:39] <ali1234> these two things are the reason why everyone hates it
[18:39] <Azelphur> ali1234: re g19 boot looping, I assume a bad ground line could cause it :)
[18:39]  * Azelphur thinks he fixed it
[18:39] <ali1234> ground line?
[18:39] <ali1234> it doesn't have a ground line
[18:39] <ali1234> it's DC
[18:40] <Azelphur> ali1234: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/June/IMG_20120608_192522.jpg
[18:40] <Azelphur> it's using the bar on the LCD for ground isn't it?
[18:40] <ali1234> not afaik
[18:40] <Azelphur> what's that in the photo then? XD
[18:40] <ali1234> it's just spray painted plastic
[18:40] <ali1234> um. screws?
[18:41] <Azelphur> look at the right one, that black line is coming directly off the power line
[18:41] <Azelphur> and being bolted straight into the metal bar on the LCD
[18:41] <ali1234> yeah i checked and it is conductive
[18:42] <ali1234> so yeah
[18:42] <ali1234> that probably explains why it picks up so much RF from mobile phones too
[18:42] <Azelphur> sounds like we're onto a winner here
[18:43] <Azelphur> it was loose, some guy on the logitech forum suggested it to me, and it matches up too because my keyboard often boot loops when I move it
[18:43] <ali1234> well that's a dead give away for bad cnnection
[18:43] <ali1234> why you never mentioned it before?
[18:43] <Azelphur> because I couldn't replicate it
[18:44] <Azelphur> it was only sometimes, but I guess that is all about bad connection
[18:44] <Azelphur> should have put two and two together there :)
[18:44] <ali1234> i've got headphones with a bad connection somewhere on the 10 meters of cable
[18:44] <ali1234> i know it's near the headphone end because if i keep my head COMPLETELY still they don't cut out
[18:44] <Azelphur> haha, well I just tightened it up and it just started doing it again
[18:45] <Azelphur> might solder it
[18:45] <ali1234> that stupid
[18:45] <ali1234> the fault is probably somewhere else
[18:45] <ali1234> get a meter and check the levels
[18:46] <KrimZon> what's the first version of ubuntu to use gtk3?
[18:46] <Azelphur> will need a bit more of an explanation than that, I have a meter but absolutely no idea how to use it xD
[18:46] <ali1234> KrimZon oneiric
[18:47] <ali1234> Azelphur: put it on voltage mode and then connect black wire to ground
[18:47] <KrimZon> what number is one eyed rick? ,)
[18:47] <ali1234> KrimZon 11.10
[18:47] <KrimZon> ahh, thanks
[18:47] <MartijnVdS> ooh.. my HDMI-to-DVI-converter _does_ work
[18:47] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[18:47] <ali1234> Azelphur: then measure the voltage at various places
[18:47] <Azelphur> what am I looking for?
[18:48] <ali1234> check ground in other places such as USB ports
[18:48] <Azelphur> ah
[18:48] <ali1234> you are looking for something that should be ground but isn't
[18:48] <Azelphur> ah I see makes sense
[18:48] <ali1234> or something that should be 5V but isn't
[18:48] <Azelphur> and if I have black connected to ground and red connected to another ground, the meter will pipe up if they arn't equal
[18:48] <ali1234> another thing to test is put it on continuity mode (normally it will beep, or it might be a picture of a diode ->|-)
[18:48] <ali1234> then make sure all the grounds are really grounds
[18:49] <Azelphur> hehe
[18:49] <ali1234> you can put one probe n the metal bar and the other on the DC input connector, and then bend all the cable
[18:49] <ali1234> etc
[18:49] <ali1234> basically making sure that everything makes sense and is connected
[18:50] <Azelphur> sounds fun
[18:50] <ali1234> also test the power supply
[18:50] <ali1234> but you must test it under load
[18:50] <Azelphur> same issue with 2 different psus so probably not that
[18:50] <ali1234> so test the voltage where it comes into the keyboard, while the keyboard is on
[18:50] <ali1234> if the keyboard is failed closed it could be drawing too much power, more than the PSU can supply
[18:51] <ali1234> http://www.repairfaq.org/ has plenty more advice like this
[18:51] <Azelphur> cool :)
[19:05] <ali1234> this zero-padded array is really bugging me
[19:06] <ali1234> all the examples i have are 8+(15*n) long
[19:06] <ali1234> but all of them have more than 15 empty elements so that's not the reason
[19:06] <ali1234> usually less than 1/4 of the elements are non-zero
[21:20] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] 3D Python Game Development - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/06/08/3d-python-game-development/
[22:05] <dogmatic69> testing with iperf, only 38Mbits/sec :(
[22:06] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: pi?
[22:07] <dogmatic69> ?
[22:07] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: never mind, I've been playing with my raspberry pi, not being impressed by performance
[22:07] <dogmatic69> ah
[22:07] <dogmatic69> well its no i7 :P
[22:07] <MartijnVdS> :P
[22:08] <dogmatic69> anything I could do to improve network speed?
[22:08] <MartijnVdS> get a gige nic
[22:08] <dogmatic69> or determine the low part.
[22:08] <dogmatic69> :D
[22:08] <MartijnVdS> or 10ge
[22:09] <MartijnVdS> gah... disk throughput problem on my desktop
[22:09] <dogmatic69> for once my internet bandwidth might be higher than the network
[22:09] <MartijnVdS> I'm going to need to build a proper 'pvr' box :|
[22:09]  * MartijnVdS is still waiting for the 100/100 fibre
[22:09] <dogmatic69> how do you test disk throughput
[22:10] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: bonnie?
[22:10] <MartijnVdS> warning might be destructive
[22:10] <MartijnVdS> I messed up my disk throughput myself
[22:10] <MartijnVdS> (by writing several multi-gb files at once)
[22:10] <dogmatic69> ?
[22:10] <dogmatic69> like break the hdd?
[22:10] <MartijnVdS> no
[22:10] <MartijnVdS> might wipe data
[22:10] <dogmatic69> :S
[22:10] <MartijnVdS> but it will only do that if you ask it to
[22:11] <MartijnVdS> read the man page and you'll be fine
[22:11] <MartijnVdS> aaanyway.. Zzz o'clock over here :)
[22:12] <dogmatic69> thanks and gn
[22:13] <Azelphur> Anyone who knows some things about python+dbus mind taking a look at this and telling me why it doesn't work? http://pastebin.com/RLiUKsmt :(
[22:14] <Azelphur> according to d-feet, I have a org.gnome15.Gnome15 bus with a /org/gnome15/Service object and a org.gnome15.Service interface which has a GetDevices method
[22:17] <Azelphur> ah, fixed it wrong interface name >.<


[05:27] <CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal gutsy * r4468 /kubuntu/ (7 files in 2 dirs): kubuntu debian and makefile updates
[06:05] <nnonix> Am I the only one who things the forums are full of more bad information than good?
[06:05] <nixternal> nope
[06:06] <nnonix> I've seriously considered the Documentation Team but .... everyone I tell about help.ubuntu.com is surprised ... and didn't know it was there.
[06:08] <nnonix> How do you promote the good documentation without alienating the other rather "seat of your pants" sources (forums, mailing list, IRC)
[06:09] <nnonix> I swear, there WILL be some Forum article about how to install flash in Gutsy.
[06:57] <CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal gutsy * r4469 /kubuntu/ (781 files in 781 dirs): fixed the mess that we call translations to point at the correct lang=cc
[06:57] <CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal gutsy * r4470 /kubuntu/ (17 files in 17 dirs): my cheater lang files
[08:52] <mdke> nixternal: no. You need to rename the po files from document-cc to cc. Also, make sure you get the latest version of translate.sh from branches/gutsy/ubuntu/translate.sh
[08:53] <mdke> nnonix: good questions. At the moment the Ubuntu website ecosystem is a bit disorganised. We have a specification about how to improve things; and improving the content and organisation of the wiki will also help a lot
[09:41] <CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4471 / (54 files in 54 dirs): fix to bug 144796
[09:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 144796 in ubuntu-docs ""Glossary of Windows terms" link doesn't work" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144796
[02:24] <nixternal> mdke: ya, I finally got it yesterday...there has got to be an easier way..oh wait there is, and I will have a script for it one of these days :)
[07:17] <mdke> nixternal: there is a bug about rosetta exporting po files in the correct format (cc.po rather than template-cc.po); they'll fix it on their end I hope
[08:33] <frank_> is iit too late to fix problems is the kubuntu documentation for gutsy?
[09:17] <mdke> frank_: yes, unless it's very serious
[09:19] <nixternal> mdke: groovy...that was a pain, but it is done....and now I can take a much needed break :)
[09:26] <frank_> mdke: the command to enable libdvdcss is sudo /usr/share/doc/libdvdread3/install-css.sh not sudo /usr/share/doc/libdvdread3/examples/install-css.sh as the kubuntu doc says
[09:27] <frank_> mdke: and in the multimedia section, the  libxine-extracodecs  package doesn't exist anymore
[09:32] <nixternal> frank_: can you fix that and send me the patch for trunk...it won't get in for Gutsy, but it will for Hardy
[09:33] <nixternal> actually, I guess I could fix it really quick in trunk
[09:34] <CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4472 kubuntu/musicvideophotos/C/musicvideophotos.xml: Thanks for Frank for finding this one
[09:34] <nixternal> frank_: ^^ fixed, but like I said, it will be wrong in Gutsy unfortunately
[10:58] <frank_> nixternal: it's too bad it won't get into gutsy. oh well