[00:17] <yuriy> anybody have a bluetooth mouse working on Intrepid?
[00:55] <MRcheese> is ext4 compiled into the kernel?
[00:55] <crimsun> no.
[00:58] <MRcheese> when will they add it
[00:59] <crimsun> no idea.  perhaps when the on-disk format has stabilised.
[00:59] <crimsun> definitely not before then without financial motivation.
[00:59] <G_009> 2.6.26-5 in stores now!
[00:59] <jbroome> i'm waiting for RAID ponies
[00:59] <crimsun> I've got your raid pony /right here/
[00:59] <crimsun> err
[01:00] <jbroome> actually, that'd be RAIP and that's just rude
[01:00] <MRcheese> oh well i will continue to use JFS then
[01:02] <MRcheese> could alpha 3 destory a partition?
[01:03] <crimsun> most certainly.
[01:03] <crimsun> 1) you tell it to delete a partition
[01:03] <crimsun> 3) profit
[01:05] <MRcheese> nm that was a dumb q
[01:06] <jbroome> i have become detoyer of worlds
[01:07] <MRcheese> haha too bad no one knows about jfs
[01:08] <crimsun> eh?
[01:08] <crimsun> lots of people do, most importantly the guys at IBM.
[01:09] <MRcheese> uses i meant
[01:09] <MRcheese> Its a great FS
[01:10] <crimsun> I do
[01:10] <crimsun> I used to lug around four or five usb mass storage devices.  At least a couple used JFS.
[01:12] <MRcheese> all i got to do is resize my 20GB ext3 partition to around 10GB and make a JFS partition for intrepid testing
[01:12] <G_009> distro destoyer is back
[01:13] <MRcheese> ext3 is a HUGE PIG
[01:14] <Sergeant_Pony> anyone know if there is a way to tame down the system tracker so it doesn't use 14 gig of hd space to index files?
[01:14] <MRcheese> LOL ext3 uses close to 12GB on my filesystem for inodes
[01:15] <Sergeant_Pony> 14 gig seems excessive to me
[01:15] <Sergeant_Pony> especially for a laptop
[01:15] <G_009> wow, folks still having issues with bug 203593
[01:17] <G_009> even though i have not seen it really happening on 8.10 it is common occurence for many 8.04 users
[01:17] <Sergeant_Pony> happened here... fixed it myself
[01:18] <crimsun> I'm pretty sure that has already been addressed in -updates
[01:18] <Sergeant_Pony> hi crimsun
[01:18] <crimsun> 'lo
[01:56] <MRcheese> how would i convince the ubuntu devs to update a package to a more up to date package?
[01:57] <MRcheese> or where would i?
[01:57] <coz_> MRcheese,  begging might help  .......just kidding :)
[01:57] <MRcheese> hmm its a filesystem util
[01:58] <coz_> MRcheese,  well this is as good a place as any or on the mailing list   you would probably need to give valid reasons and of course they will have reasons why they cant if that is thecase
[01:59] <Pici> MRcheese: file a bug against that package, the folks in #ubuntu-motu may be able to give you some insight as to what information they'd need to see in the bug report
[01:59] <MRcheese> k got to reboot though brb
[02:04] <tretle> how do I get rid of the display resolution applet from the panel?
[02:05] <RAOF> tretle: By waiting until the upstream bug has been fixed, I think.
[02:05] <tretle> :)
[02:05] <RAOF> You could kill gnome-settings-daemon, I suppose.
[02:05] <crdlb> excellent idea
[02:05] <tretle> no quick fix then?
[02:05] <RAOF> That's likely to have unwanted side-effects, though.  Like your desktop breaking and looking like arse.
[02:05] <RAOF> tretle: No.  No quick fix.
[02:06] <tretle> cool
[02:06] <RAOF> Well, you could patch it out & rebuild.  That'd be quick :)
[02:06] <tretle> is network manager moving to 0.7 for intrepids release or will it stay at 0.6
[02:06] <tretle> ?
[02:07] <RAOF> Dunno.  I think this depends on the state of nm 0.7
[02:07] <tretle> cool
[02:08] <tretle> and is there any chance that packages like anjuta will be updated before its release, thought it was a bit odd that the old build of an ide was being used on an unstable build of ubuntu?
[02:10] <RAOF> tretle: Possibly.  Although it's possible that no-one who cares knows about it; is there an upgrade bug on launchpad?  Is there a new version in Debian?
[02:14] <primitive> just installed intrepid and i am having some issues with my display flickering every time i launch an application
[02:15] <tretle> well 2.4 something is in the repos right now, the latest stable release was 2.50 and Im sure there is another stable release coming up as there seems to be one every month
[02:15] <tretle> next release will support vala
[03:12] <DanaG> WTF happened to my media keyboard functionality?
[03:13] <crimsun> I ate it.  mm, crunchy.
[03:15] <Hobbsee> bad crimsun!
[03:15] <crimsun> don't blame me.  It didn't look like a sound bug, so I figured it was safe to eat.
[03:19] <DanaG> How do I fix my gnome-settings-daemon?
[03:20] <crimsun> well, first check that something didn't do a recursive reset on System> Preferences> Keyboard Shortcuts
[03:20] <crimsun> recursive unset*
[03:20] <DanaG> I just went and rebound them, and the keycodes haven't changed.
[03:20] <DanaG> Oddly enough, they're still getting through to xev.
[03:24] <DanaG> ** (gnome-settings-daemon:11273): DEBUG: Unable to parse: 'XF86AudioMedia'
[03:24] <DanaG> ** (gnome-settings-daemon:11273): DEBUG: Not a valid shortcut: ''
[03:24] <DanaG> ** (gnome-settings-daemon:11273): DEBUG: Not a valid shortcut: 'disabled'
[03:29] <DanaG> Hmm, I figured out how to disable the "screen with triangle tool" icon thingy.
[03:49] <primitive> does anyone have any experience with a flickering (total blackout) whenever an application or dialog is launched in intrepid?
[03:54] <Dedi> wah kdeplasma-addons needs to get packaged
[03:55] <Dedi> primitive: yes i do too
[03:56] <primitive> any ideas on how to fix it?
[03:56] <Dedi> nope :)
[03:56] <primitive> been playing around with xorg, but no luck so far
[03:57] <primitive> maybe has to do with compviz?
[03:58] <RAOF> primitive: I'm pretty sure it's doing a load-detect on your outputs; that blinks some monitors.
[03:58] <primitive> ok, can u elaborate?
[03:58] <RAOF> Not really, that's it.
[03:59] <RAOF> It seems to be trying to work out what outputs have monitors attached, causing your blinks.  That's the limit of my guesstimation.
[03:59] <primitive> cool
[03:59] <primitive> you think i should file a bug report?
[04:00] <primitive> using this as a guideline https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DebuggingXAutoconfiguration
[04:00] <RAOF> I'm pretty sure there's at least one report already; find it and subscribe to it.
[04:00] <primitive> searched, found one, but it was revering to drop down menus and garbling of the display
[04:00] <primitive> will search again
[04:01] <primitive> i'm updating my packages as well, to see if anything might have been fixed
[04:03] <primitive> found one, you were correct
[04:03] <primitive> found it in google though, not launchpad (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-nv/+bug/245383)
[04:10] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/182704
[04:24] <DanaG> Works only with num lock off.
[04:26] <hiredgoon> stupid shaw
[04:29] <_Zeuz_> where can I change the Ubuntu Icon from gnome panel?
[04:34] <burner> _Zeuz_: it's based upon your icon theme
[04:35] <_Zeuz_> burner, I know but from ~/.icons and the theme folder I've changed the file, still haven't seen any difference
[04:35] <burner> sure it was the right file? :)
[04:35] <burner> load a different icon theme and then back to teh oen you were editing?
[04:36] <_Zeuz_> tried that, still the icon from the theme that I don't want remains
[04:36]  * burner shrugs
[04:45] <eca> i accidentally killed xdm with services-admin program (thought it said kdm). upon reboot i get a blank screen. i can start it with /etc/init.d/xdm start, if i reboot in recovery mode. but when i boot in normal mode it still doesnt work. the internet is also not working. i tried apt-get remove then install to no avail aswell
[04:47] <eca> apt-get remove/install xdm that is
[04:51] <burner> eca: can't you turn it back on with services-admin?
[04:52] <eca> it give me an error when using any program. ill get exact reason
[04:55] <eca> after login it says "internal error: failed to initialize (hal)" then when trying to open services-admin it says "you are not allowed to acces the system configuration"
[04:57] <eca> i also tried dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[05:00] <eca> *doesnt give me an error when opening non system configuration programs
[05:01] <eca> and im running them with sudo
[05:20] <eca> holy crap i fixed it by copying S99xdm from rc3.d to rc2.d because i noticed was missing in that folder
[05:21]  * eca pats himself on the back
[06:17] <DanaG> wtf... epiphany-webkit can't do authentication?
[06:17] <DanaG> 401 Authorization Required
[06:17] <DanaG> This server could not verify that you are authorized to access. Either you supplied the wrong credentials(e.g., bad password), or your browser doesn't understand how to supply the credentials required.
[06:17] <DanaG> It didn't ASK me for a username or password.
[06:17] <crdlb> yes, it really can't
[06:17] <crdlb> that hardly should be surpising given all the other things that don't work
[06:18] <DanaG> Tabs... windows...
[06:18] <LSD|Ninja> It's epiphany. The user isn't supposed to think about stuff like that. They're meant to sit down, shut up and browse.
[06:18] <DanaG> Hmm...
[06:18] <DanaG> you try browsing with it...
[06:18] <DanaG> all you can ever get is ONE window.
[06:19] <DanaG> There's no middle-click, and no open-in-new-window or tab.
[06:19] <crdlb> it _does_ have tabs, although not middle click for a tab
[06:19] <crdlb> it's not done
[06:19] <DanaG> But something as basic as login... surely that should be worked on?
[06:19] <DanaG> Or is it not really basic?
[06:20] <crdlb> ephy-webkit will not be ready for 2.24
[06:20] <crdlb> mainly it's webkit-gtk which is missing the API needed
[06:21] <DanaG> Aah.
[06:21] <DanaG> Oh yeah, I recently tried Compiz-Fusion on the old GeForce 4 420 Go, which is really mostly a GeForce 2.
[06:21] <DanaG> It actually works pretty well.
[06:24] <LSD|Ninja> It does. Certainly better than creaky old plain X on the same set up. Only reason I put up with it, it's the lesser of two evils.
[07:01] <DanaG> epiphany-webkit also just downloads files to the desktop... without notice, and without prompting.
[07:04] <crdlb> DanaG: http://live.gnome.org/Epiphany/WebKit/TODO
[07:07] <DanaG> oh yeah, I had to make a udev rule to make my audigy2 card safely removable.
[07:08] <DanaG> When I get my new laptop in the Fall, I'll be done with needing that card (and will have to replace it with something else), so I can give it to whoever can make the best use of it.
[07:09] <DanaG> For some reason, the driver does not completely clean up after itself when you remove the cardbus card.
[07:09] <DanaG> I have to actually unload the module, or else I get an oops on re-insertion.... and then a panic upon second removal.
[07:11] <RAOF> DanaG: It's cardbus?
[07:12] <RAOF> DanaG: My laptop would _love_ a soundcard that didn't noticably increase the background hum when I press a key.
[07:13] <DanaG> I want to also help fix things on it.  For example, the stereo mix capture merely gets noise.
[07:13] <DanaG> I had this horrid noise in my captured audio for some reason.....
[07:13] <DanaG> it turns out I had to mute the "PCM" capture.
[07:20] <DanaG> Oh yeah, PulseAudio also insists on using the 'mic' input on the thing, and refuses to use Line.
[07:25] <DanaG> Hmm, I wonder what advantages UEFI offers to the user over traditional BIOS.
[07:25] <DanaG> That rEFIt thingy looks cool... but it's all about Apple, Apple, Apple.  I'm not going with them.
[07:25] <DanaG> Apple does this.  Apple does that...... but what about other manufacturers who use EFI / UEFI?
[07:26] <DanaG> ... and what does the "U" even stand for?
[07:28]  * DanaG wishes somebody would make an ExpressCard sound card.... that's not Creative.
[07:29] <DanaG> In my mind, Creative is scum.  I'll spare the rant itself, and just say.... look at their forums.
[07:43] <LSD|Ninja> DanaG: Unified I believe
[07:46] <RAOF> DanaG: The reason why it's all "apple, apple, apple" is that _no-one_ else uses EFI, at least on consumer stuff.
[07:47] <LSD|Ninja> It's there, but no one is using it to the extent that Apple are. At least publically.
[07:47] <DanaG> Aah.
[07:47] <DanaG> That's the key word: consumer.
[07:48] <DanaG> HP's new Elitebook offers "UEFI Boot Mode"
[07:48] <LSD|Ninja> The major holdup is that most versions of Windows can't boot from it natively
[07:48] <DanaG> It's a business laptop.
[07:48] <RAOF> LSD|Ninja: Is it _actually_ all there?  There's certainly support for it in a variety of places, but who actually shipps EFI stuff.
[07:48] <DanaG> http://h20181.www2.hp.com/plmcontent/NACSC/SML/results.htm?SID=3688868&MEID=5C316DB1-6B5B-4C11-9F68-807A3979A6CE
[07:51] <DanaG> Another nifty feature: http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c01471860&lc=en&cc=sg&lang=en&product=3641274&dlc=en
[07:58] <LSD|Ninja> Hmm... I was under the impression Lenovo were already shipping machines with EFI but I can't seem to find to back that up...
[08:14] <catweazle> !keys
[08:18] <DanaG> Mmm, boot from SD card.
[08:19] <RAOF> Eh; USB's fine.
[08:20] <DanaG> Well, you don't see SD-card boot very often.  It's interesting that they bothered with it.
[08:20] <DanaG> I wonder why.
[08:23] <RAOF> Binary search FTW!
[08:23] <DanaG> Interesting feature: keep hard drive spun down while lid is closed.
[08:23] <LSD|Ninja> Does it support USB boot? My guess would be that it's probably not too much of a stretch to include SD boot if they're already including USB boot
[08:24] <RAOF> LSD|Ninja: Probably not.  I don't know if mine includes SD boot; i've never even put an sd card into the reader.
[08:28] <DanaG> Interesting: "An extra layer of security, power-on authentication requires users to identify themselves with passwords, Smart Cards or TPM before the operating system will even start."
[08:28] <DanaG> I just wish the kernel driver for their accelerometer would get somewhere in development.
[08:28] <DanaG> It's currently floating around as miscellaneous threads on LKML.
[08:32] <DanaG> Heh, webcam as business card reader.
[08:38] <RAOF> Who feels like reading 30Gb worth of debug trace?
[08:43] <RAOF> Hobbsee: Network probems? :)
[08:47] <Hobbsee> RAOF: no - i wanted clarke, not kubrick, so i manually specified.
[08:48] <RAOF> What's wrong with poor kubirck? :)
[08:48] <Hobbsee> RAOF: seeing as my server is in fremont, it makes sense for me to connect to the irc server in fremont, not the one in LA :P
[08:48] <RAOF> Hah!  Success!  Hurray for log_2 search.
[08:49] <RAOF> And that log is a mere 5.2x10^6 lines.
[09:07] <s0ullight> what alpha version is intrepid ibex at the moment?
[09:07] <TheInfinity> alpha3
[09:07] <RAOF> Well, not really, but that's a useful lie.
[09:08] <s0ullight> whats the situation with wireless networking
[09:08] <s0ullight> and X
[09:09] <RAOF> That's really for you to tell us :)
[09:09] <RAOF> Neither wireless nor X has broken for me during the Intrepid cycle (yet).
[09:10] <RAOF> They have broken for any number of other people, though.
[09:10] <s0ullight> im in turkey atm. hollidays. so im not using linux now
[09:10] <TheInfinity> RAOF: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/intrepid/ <-- and what alpha is else the current one?
[09:10] <TheInfinity> RAOF: the non existing alpha4? :p
[09:10] <s0ullight> are the nvidia drivers fixed?
[09:10] <G_009> same here.. except i have only tried wifi on 64bit version
[09:11] <RAOF> TheInfinity: Neither alpha3 nor alpha4; both numbers are wrong :)
[09:11] <TheInfinity> RAOF: and what is this at this link? :p
[09:11] <s0ullight> lets just use alpha 3
[09:12] <RAOF> I've got a fully up-to-date Intrepid system; it's not what you'd get by installing from the alpha 3 cd.
[09:12] <RAOF> But this is really semantics.
[09:13] <RAOF> But semantics that are regularly reinforced by people misunderstanding the rather arbitrary existance of "alpha _x_" :)
[09:13] <s0ullight> is the touchpad issue fixed in this ubuntu or do i still need 2 bootparameters?
[09:14] <RAOF> Again, I've never had a touchpad issue.
[09:14] <G_009> i care about the meaning of "up-to-date
[09:14] <RAOF> These questions are more likely to be usefully asked of the search functionality of Launchpad.
[09:15] <TheInfinity> RAOF: oh wow what a difference :p
[09:15] <s0ullight> when using syntapic kind of touchpads scroll and holding mousebutton sometimes fail
[09:15] <s0ullight> bug in ubuntu kernel
[09:15] <s0ullight> i had it in hardy
[09:16] <RAOF> s0ullight: Well, I've been using a synaptics touchpad and haven't noticed anything of the kind.  Unless it's reported in Launchpad, though, it's only been fixed by mistake.
[09:16] <s0ullight> :D
[09:17] <RAOF> Note that I didn't notice anything of the kind in Hardy, either, so it's entireyl possible that your bug hasn't been fixed.
[09:18] <s0ullight> well im not the only one with that bug
[09:18] <RAOF> But is it on launchpad?
[09:18] <RAOF> If it is, that's where information about it will be stored.
[09:18] <s0ullight> found the solution in the ubuntu forums lemme check
[09:18] <RAOF> if it isn't, no one's working on fixing it.
[09:20] <s0ullight> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=844968 this is what worked for me
[09:21] <RAOF> But is it reported in launchpad?
[09:22] <s0ullight> i dont know
[09:22] <RAOF> That's where you should be going to work out if it's fixed or not.  (And if it's not reported yet, it should be).
[09:22] <s0ullight> there are reports about non detected touchpads but didnt see this
[09:26] <s0ullight> RAOF: i have to register and so on
[09:28] <DanaG> One of my touchpad buttons is sometimes unreliable.....
[09:29] <DanaG> but it's most likely a hardware issue.
[09:29] <s0ullight> DanaG: you can never be sure
[09:29] <DanaG> It sometimes does it in Windows, too.
[09:29] <s0ullight> try the link to see if that brings a solution
[09:29] <DanaG> And in OS X (yay, hackintosh).
[09:30]  * DanaG greatly prefers Ubuntu over Apple's thing -- Apple makes stuff overly simplistic sometimes.
[09:30] <s0ullight> true
[09:30] <DanaG> I ran into such an issue today.... but I don't remember what it was.
[09:31] <DanaG> Oh yeah, it was Finder -- there's no "default view mode" option!
[09:31]  * DanaG hugs Nautilus.... especially the new version.
[09:31] <s0ullight> apple has great products with great specifications but they mostly forget the most common things
[09:32] <DanaG> <insert "only one button?" rant here>
[09:35]  * G_009 is going to try s0ullight 's pointed out workaround. touchpad doesnt scroll
[09:36] <s0ullight> G_009: let me know if it works
[09:36] <G_009> sounds pretty straight forward~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[09:37] <G_009> blame that
[09:37] <G_009> on the
[09:37] <G_009> cat
[09:38] <DanaG> meow
[09:43] <stefanlsd> Can apt show a changelog for a package?
[09:52] <G_009>  no results.
[09:52] <s0ullight> also tryed the link in the link?
[09:53] <G_009> first tried adding it directly via editing grub on bootup .. second try was editing menu.lst itself. nada
[09:54] <G_009> didnt see that one .. reading ...
[09:54] <s0ullight> :D
[10:02] <RAOF> stefanlsd: Yes.  Well, with aptitude (aptitude changelog package)
[10:03] <stefanlsd> RAOF: thanks. works
[10:05] <G_009> removing psmouse module works for me.. good going.. all i have left is to modify modprobe
[10:07] <G_009> let me rephrase removing psmouse module and modifying modprobe with psmouse rate=50 proto=imps
[10:07] <s0ullight> :D
[10:08] <G_009> i had stopped looking for a workaround for a while .. so cheers to you s0ullight
[10:09] <G_009> i might use a hight rate value though
[10:09] <G_009> s/hight/higher
[10:09] <s0ullight> G_009: can you look it up in launchpad and add them if they are not listed?
[10:09] <G_009> i could
[10:10]  * G_009 eats tuna_sammich
[10:10] <s0ullight> cuz i have to leave the place soon and im in hollidays so
[10:10] <G_009> i'll look into it
[10:19] <s0ullight> G_009: hope you ll help others btw damn this weird keyboard
[10:59] <G_009> system>shutdown still only logs off user
[10:59] <G_009> err
[11:00] <G_009> system>shutdown then choosing restart only logs out user
[11:03] <LSD|Ninja> yeah, annoying that
[11:23] <BUGabundo> is fuse.gvfs mount in / or in /home?
[11:27] <BUGabundo> please see http://fileland.bugabundo.net/temp/Screenshot-SystemMonitor.png
[13:29] <aguitel> i am using intrepid 64 bits in amd 64 and every time when it boot heard noise in my hard disk ( only 15 seconds) anyone know about this ?
[13:36] <catweazle> aguitel: could it be the pc-speaker? there is a known bug
[13:36] <aguitel> catweazle, anyway to desable pc -speaker ?
[13:37] <aguitel> catweazle, disable i say
[13:37] <catweazle> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/242966
[13:40] <aguitel> catweazle, the noise is inside the pc and some times ocurrs when firefox is running (some sites) and when i sut down firefox it stops (the noise)
[14:39] <Hew> Is there a screenshot of what Kubuntu Intrepid looks like anywhere? I've tried searching the net but amazingly without a satisfactory result. I'd like to compare what it's meant to look like with what it actually looks like for me.
[14:55] <constrictor> Hew are you unhappy with what yours looks like?
[14:56] <Hew> constrictor: Yes, but I think that's because it's broken and theme-less
[14:56] <constrictor> ah
[14:56] <constrictor> i can't seem to find any either
[14:57] <Hew> I installed kubuntu-desktop on a gnome-ubuntu system; there are problems in both environments
[14:57] <constrictor> well my new human just looks like a generic gnome theme
[14:57] <Hew> constrictor: this is on gnome or kde ubuntu?
[14:58] <constrictor> but having said that i'm still in the upgrade process so i'm assuming after a reboot it should look like it's supposed to
[14:58] <constrictor> gnome
[14:58] <Hew> I got the NewHuman dark theme fine on gnome. Looks impressive :-)
[14:58] <Hew> ah ok
[14:58] <constrictor> might need to rebot my lappie then
[14:58] <Hew> I would think it applies immediately, but maybe you need to restart X
[14:58] <constrictor> my thoughts too
[14:59] <constrictor> i'll wait for it to finish
[14:59] <constrictor> actually it's replacing metacity as well
[14:59] <JontheEchidna> As of now kubuntu Intrepid looks exactly like the KDE 4.1 defautl desktop
[14:59] <constrictor> that might be why
[15:01] <Hew> JontheEchidna: If I run firefox / synaptic / gnome apps, the toolbars look like there is no theme applied
[15:01] <Hew> Is this normal / known?
[15:02] <JontheEchidna> install gtk-qt--engine-kde4
[15:02] <Hew> I can imagine there are problems running gnome-specific apps on KDE, but I would have thought firefox and synaptic were interchangeable
[15:02] <Hew> ok
[15:02] <JontheEchidna> and configure it in systemsettings
[15:02] <JontheEchidna> in the appearance section
[15:04] <Hew> gtk-qt-engine-kde4/intrepid uptodate 1.1-0ubuntu1
[15:04] <Hew> already installed
[15:04] <JontheEchidna> oh yeah, forgot it doesn't work in intrepid
[15:04] <JontheEchidna> needs to be repackaged
[15:06] <Hew> yea found the appearance section again (I'm slow, new to KDE :P); I've been here before but doesn't seem to change anything
[15:06] <Hew> JontheEchidna: So is this a known issue? I'm active on launchpad and would like to follow this up
[15:07] <JontheEchidna> yeah, lemme see if I can't find the bug
[15:07] <JontheEchidna> bug 250662
[15:07] <Hew> I just haven't had experience with the gnome/kde interaction before so was unsure if this was a problem or not
[15:07] <Hew> thanks
[15:41] <G_009> updates time!
[15:42] <G_009> yay.. one for dbus
[16:05] <LocutusOfBorg> can I ask for a bug???
[16:09] <LocutusOfBorg> I run under ubuntu intrepid ibex, but I cannot usa tty1 to 6
[16:09] <LocutusOfBorg> no problem with graphics
[16:10] <LocutusOfBorg> any idea?
[16:10] <LocutusOfBorg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/253661
[16:13] <ikonia> LocutusOfBorg: if you boot into a text mode, can you use them ?
[16:13] <LocutusOfBorg> no
[16:13] <LocutusOfBorg> only graphical way
[16:14] <LocutusOfBorg> i should wait
[16:14] <Hobbsee> you should run hardy, as you clearly don't know what you're doing.
[16:16] <LocutusOfBorg> now I'm under hardy
[16:16] <LocutusOfBorg> but I use ibex without problem
[16:16] <LocutusOfBorg> only tty are not working
[16:17] <LocutusOfBorg> no problem under "graphical bash"
[16:17] <Hobbsee> bash is not graphical.
[16:19] <ikonia> LocutusOfBorg: what are you talking about your not using it without a problem as your in here logging bugs and don't know what to do
[16:20] <LocutusOfBorg> Hobbsee, I mean I start bash under tty7
[16:20] <LocutusOfBorg> ikonia, I've submitted this report for this reason
[16:21] <mvo> LocutusOfBorg: when the grub screen comes up, try editing the grub line (right at bootup) and remove the "splash" there. that will give you a boot without the splash screen and that may fix the problem
[16:21] <DanaG> Oh yeah, if G_009 comes back, tell him/her that the 'rate' protocol is an optional thing on psmouse -- if you don't use it, it's better because it uses events instead of polling.
[16:22] <LocutusOfBorg> ok mvo
[16:26] <mvo> LocutusOfBorg: if that fixes the issues, please make sure to put that information into the bugreport so that this information is recorded :)
[16:27] <LocutusOfBorg> this will be the first thing... :)
[16:33] <ikonia> mvo_: what suggested to you that the boot splash would effect the ability to swap terminals from within an X environment ?
[16:37] <mvo_> ikonia: I thought I did read in the bugreport that the ttys are garbaled when switched to them did I misread that?
[16:48] <LSD|Ninja> There are all kinds of weird splash bugs in Intrepid at the moment. Ther've been a few updates to usplash though so they do seem to be working on it
[16:48] <LocutusOfBorg> that's right... :D
[16:48] <ikonia> LSD|Ninja: but how does that match anything thats said above ?
[16:49] <LocutusOfBorg> i didn't upgrade my ibex for 4 days and today I got 107 MB of updates... :)
[16:54] <LocutusOfBorg> mvo_, I'll try to reboot
[16:54] <LocutusOfBorg> thanks to everyone
[16:54] <mvo_> good luck
[16:55] <LocutusOfBorg> 10q
[17:02] <LocutusOfBorg> it seems to be working
[17:03] <LocutusOfBorg> without splash flag
[17:43] <penguin42> is the Ibex alpha reasonably stable, i.e. on the current version does it mostly work or is there anything major particularly broken?
[17:45] <LocutusOfBorg> penguin42, I'm running under ibex alpha 3
[17:45] <LocutusOfBorg> only a little bug on  text mode (slved just now)
[17:45] <LocutusOfBorg> but I've read something about bug... :/
[17:45] <LSD|Ninja> penguin42: lots of things are broken, it depends on what you use
[17:46] <penguin42> now there are two opposing views :-)
[17:46] <LocutusOfBorg> penguin42, I don't think is stable
[17:46] <LocutusOfBorg> I agree with LSD|Ninja
[17:47] <LocutusOfBorg> I say only that I've no problem
[17:47] <LocutusOfBorg> Now i'll reboot... to see if the ati drivers works.. .:)
[17:47] <LSD|Ninja> It's mostly just little things at the moment, at least for me. It's impossible to say that it's anywhere near production quality though
[17:48] <penguin42> LSD|Ninja: Like?
[17:49]  * penguin42 would like to see whether some of the things that annoy him in Hardy are fixed
[17:49] <LSD|Ninja> penguin42: Like? :P
[17:49] <penguin42> oh nspluginwrapper is particularly touchy (a known fixed is in the upstream release)
[17:52] <LocutusOfBorg> still no problem... :)
[17:55] <penguin42> right, I'll come back in a couple of weeks
[17:55] <LocutusOfBorg> still no problem...
[19:24] <kallu> anyone having issues with plasmoids in kde 4.1
[19:25] <kallu> mine some plasmoids are n't starting properly .. instead a black dot is appearing
[19:28] <JontheEchidna> kallu: which plasmoids?
[19:29] <kallu> JontheEchidna, every thing except few like clock, trash ... folderview etc are not working
[19:30] <JontheEchidna> apt-cache policy kdeplasma-addons , please
[19:30] <kallu> kdeplasma-addons:
[19:30] <kallu>   Installed: 4:4.1.0-0ubuntu1
[19:30] <kallu>   Candidate: 4:4.1.0-0ubuntu1
[19:30] <kallu>   Version table:
[19:30] <kallu>  *** 4:4.1.0-0ubuntu1 0
[19:30] <kallu>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com intrepid/main Packages
[19:31] <kallu>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
[19:31] <kallu>      4:4.0.98-0ubuntu1 0
[19:31] <kallu>         500 ftp://ftp.iitb.ac.in intrepid/main Packages
[19:34] <JontheEchidna> hmm
[19:34] <JontheEchidna> those might need a rebuild
[19:34] <JontheEchidna> (kdebase-plasma and kdeplasma-addons)
[19:59] <negge> * Updated the gtkrc and metacity configs a bit to fix a few known problems (off-white backgrounds for text editor and other apps) <-- why did they make the theme so goddamn ugly?
[19:59] <negge> I'm talking about the human-theme package?
[19:59] <negge> -?
[20:28] <lymeca> Hi, I've got the latest 2.6.26 kernel in Intrepid, but it won't boot.
[20:28] <lymeca> It keeps saying right after being selecting in GRUB
[20:28] <lymeca> "PCI: Not using MMconfig"
[20:28] <lymeca> and it just sits there and won't boot.
[20:28] <lymeca> I've tried this with every 2.6.26 kernel in INtrepid and none of them have worked, up to the latest.
[20:36] <sioux> http://towers.corinthia.cz/hotel/en/  nice hotels... who payed the bill?
[20:37] <sioux> :-)
[20:54] <borschty> i'm trying to find out if /dev/.static/dev is mounted ro only on my machines or if it is a general problem in intrepid, could somebody please tell me the output of "cat /proc/mounts | grep .static"
[20:58] <sioux> a intrepid low deley kernel will be available?


[19:58] <EL3> Hello, I got a pcduino3. It has a power usb connection, and a usb otg connection. I was wondering if it is possible to make i act like a usb flassh drive if connected to another device


[12:12] <danohuiginn> any of you folks have time to review a patch? bug 57067
[12:12] <ubotu> Malone bug 57067 in python-mysqldb "UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode certain bytes " [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/57067
[12:16] <sladen> Lure: is imbrandon doing it?
[12:18] <keescook> Lure: I tested and uploaded it too.  :)
[12:18] <imbrandon> keescook, beat me
[12:18] <imbrandon> ;)
[12:19] <keescook> :)
[12:21] <mdke> ogra: depends on your definition of "fix", but it adds an entry to the main yelp menu when edubuntu-docs is installed
[12:54] <lamont> dear gaim, please stop &*(%)*$^(&)%*_ taking focus on startup.  kthxbye
[12:58] <imbrandon> jdub, ping ( is the config/* for planet.u.c in a bzr branch ? )
[12:59] <mdke> see wiki:PlanetUbuntu
[01:00] <imbrandon> mdke, yea i konw that, as far as feeds , i mean more like the config/members/index.html.tmpl refrenced in the config.ini not in a normal checkout
[01:00] <mdke> right, the bzr branch doesn't have that in it
[01:00] <imbrandon> right, thats what i was wondering if that was avail in another branch
[01:00] <mdke> you can ask Spads about getting hold of a copy
[01:01] <imbrandon> k cool, i dont know Spads but i'll try to ping/email him
[01:01] <imbrandon> thanks mdke
[01:01] <mdke> unlikely that jeff still knows, tbh
[01:01] <imbrandon> true , i just wasent sure who would short of you/corey/newzum
[02:13] <andrewski> is there a way to get back a crash report ubuntu was submitting to launchpad? i left the launchpad page open for about 10 hours before actually submitting it and it came back "page not found". i'm hoping the crash report is stored locally?
[02:20] <jmg> hey all
[02:20] <jmg> i need some specialist X help
[02:21] <Burgwork> jmg: this isn't really a support channel
[02:21] <jmg> #ubuntu-motu pointed me here
[02:22] <Burgwork> right
[02:22] <Burgwork> is this something to do with development of Ubuntu?
[02:22] <jmg> and i know
[02:22] <cjwatson> andrewski: should be in /var/crash/
[02:22] <jmg> the fine line between development and configuration
[02:22] <Burgwork> right
[02:22] <Burgwork> it is pretty quiet, so shoot
[02:22] <cjwatson> I think if you 'sudo touch' it then the crash reporter might try again? not sure though
[02:23] <andrewski> cjwatson: and there it is. cheers! :D
[02:40] <cjwatson> you're welcome
[02:41] <andrewski> cjwatson: lol, the touch idea totally worked! awesome!
[03:52] <stdin> shouldn't the "Help -> Report Bug..." feature go to launchpad.net, not bugs.kde.org?
[05:10] <poningru> gaah no opers?
[05:10] <poningru> we need someone in #ubuntu
[05:11] <Fujitsu> poningru: -> #ubuntu-ops
[05:11] <Fujitsu> Or call !ops in #ubuntu
[05:11] <poningru> we did
[05:11] <poningru> no one is here
[06:30] <TheMuso> c
[06:30] <TheMuso> ugh
[06:36] <reitblatt> latest update killed the "Access IBM" key on my thinkpad =/
[07:41] <sanzky> hi, does anyone knows if there are any XML database servers in the ubuntu repositories?
[07:41] <Burgundavia> sanzky: huh?
[07:42] <sanzky> a xml database, like exist for example
[07:43] <sanzky> http://exist.sourceforge.net/
[07:43] <Hobbsee> sanzky: see #ubuntu - this is not a support channel.  apt-cache search xml database might bring something up.
[07:46] <sanzky> is it possible to suggest new packages for ubuntu ? if I am not a dev ?
[07:47] <Hobbsee> sanzky: yes, info is linked off http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[07:47] <Burgundavia> sanzky: yes
[07:47] <Hobbsee> iirc
[07:47] <sanzky> thanks
[08:22] <jcole> when i connect using ssh on feisty, it takes forever... is this known? or a problem?
[08:22] <jcole> "ssh {server}"
[08:24] <jcole> "ssh localhost" took almost 5 minutes
[08:25] <jcole> once i'm connected, all is fine
[08:25] <LaserJock> jcole: wow, ssh looks fine for me
[08:25] <jcole> LaserJock: this is strange to me
[08:26] <jcole> $ time ssh localhost
[08:26] <jcole> real    2m11.307s
[08:27] <jcole> i wonder if it's that gnome network manager trying to activate my wireless card
[08:29] <jcole> "sudo ifconfig eth0 down" did the trick but the gnome network manager keeps bringing it back up!
[08:30] <jcole> nm-applet
[08:35] <jcole> apt-get remove --purge network-manager-gnom
[08:35] <jcole> MUCH better
[08:42] <jcole> ssh is slow on feisty -> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=377212
[08:43] <poningru> waah?
[08:45] <Amaranth> i've got a debdiff attached to bug 89786 that should fix it, looking for someone to sponsor the upload
[08:45] <ubotu> Malone bug 89786 in desktop-effects "Desktop-effect does not enable cube" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/89786
[08:45] <jcole> poningru: fresh install of feisty (used to have edgy on here) and ssh is awful slow... it maybe the way feisty does networking or something
[08:45] <fabbione> jcole: i have noticed something similar but only after logging in .. it did look like network-manager was switching between interfaces (i have 3 that all resolves and get the same IP from dhcp)
[08:46] <poningru> hmm havent noticed anything
[08:46] <poningru> here
[08:46] <fabbione> jcole: so ssh into one iface, nm switch and bam
[08:47] <jcole> fabbione: ya, once i'm logged in, all is well... it's just that 5 minute wait to connect
[08:47] <fabbione> jcole: can you check if you have more than one instance of dhcp client running for the same interface
[08:47] <fabbione> ?
[08:47] <fabbione> (with nm installed)
[08:47] <jcole> $ ps -ef | grep dhcp
[08:47] <jcole> dhcp      5069  4918  0 18:16 ?        00:00:00 /sbin/dhclient -1 -lf /var/lib/dhcp3/dhclient.eth1.leases -pf /var/run/dhclient.eth1.pid -q -e dhc_dbus=31 -d eth1
[08:47] <fabbione> jcole: with nm running?
[08:48] <fabbione> hmm ok
[08:50] <jcole> fabbione: i just uninstalled network-manager-gnome to see if that would help... but it didn't... i've reinstalled and kicked off nm-applet
[08:50] <fabbione> jcole: you need to remove network-manager to kill the backend
[08:50] <fabbione> nm-gnome is only the applet afaik
[08:51] <jcole> fabbione: ah
[08:56] <^jcole> doing an "strace ssh server" i'm seeing lots of dns queries to the dns server
[08:56] <fabbione> ^jcole: once you purge nm you really want to clean up and do a reboot of the machine
[08:57] <fabbione> it doesn't leave the machine in a  nice status in my experience
[08:57] <^jcole> fabbione: ok, rebooting
[08:57] <fabbione> tho you can fix it manually by restarting the network properly
[09:00] <^jcole> fabbione: it's faster now
[09:01] <^jcole> fabbione: network-manager was the problem
[09:01] <fabbione> ^jcole: file a bug please...
[09:40] <jcole> fabbione: i'm filing a bug for network-manager right now... but i'm a bit befuddled of why removing it makes my system happy
[09:41] <fabbione> jcole: i believe that nm is resetting the interface too many times.. but i can't be sure
[09:46] <siretart> is the powerpc retracer down or something?
[10:12] <hunger> Why was X's resolution changed?
[10:13] <hunger> How do I turn it back? Or will this stay and should I adopt my fonts?
[10:16] <reitblatt> hunger: this channel isn't for support
[10:16] <reitblatt> try #ubuntu
[10:17] <hunger> reitblatt: To noisy there and you never get a answer there. I'll just write a bugreport.
[11:56] <mdke> doko: around?
[12:55] <tuxcrafter> how do i use kdump effective with the ubuntu kernel
[01:20] <tuxcrafter> no onethat can help?
[03:52] <otavio> Hello folks. I'm having a problem with dhcp3-client on Debian and would like to check if there's any modification done on Ubuntu that could address it.
[03:53] <otavio> When using pppoe dhcp3-client is setting the default network route to the router while it shouldn't do it. dhcp-client works.
[03:53] <otavio> But dhcp3-client is a dependency of systems using network-manager and then it would be a serious bug for feisty too.
[03:55] <Nafallo> ouch :-/
[04:43] <robertj> ajmitch: can I get a copy of the latest authtool just out of curiosity?
[05:52] <GBM> Hi
[05:52] <GBM> I need an IRC in Spanish
[05:53] <Treenaks> try #ubuntu-es
[05:53] <Nafallo> #ubuntu-es
[05:53] <GBM> thanks a lot
[06:18] <ded__> hi
[06:18] <ded__> im new on linux
[06:18] <ded__> how to execute shell command in c++ prog
[06:18] <ded__> ???
[06:24] <blackska1> ded_: you can invoke any program from within your program using the exec()-functions
[06:24] <blackska1> more info : http://www.yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/ForkExecProcesses.html
[06:35] <ded__> thanks im looking that
[06:40] <ded__> thanks that was exactely what i wanted
[07:09] <robertj> any thoughts on working up a spec to main libpam-smbpass a dep on ubuntu-desktop and enabled in common-password by default so that when users later install samba everything JustWorks?
[07:12] <Treenaks> robertj: There are already a few specs like that afaik
[07:13] <Treenaks> (mostly to do with simple business servers)
[07:14] <robertj> Treenaks: sorry, I should have included the fact that I was planning on writing a Spec that actually had a chance of being implemented ;)
[07:17] <Treenaks> robertj: well, you might want to improve one of the existing ones, instead of starting another one
[07:17] <robertj> Treenaks: not doable
[07:17] <Treenaks> robertj: just so you don't duplicate a lot of work
[07:17] <robertj> Thats a go-nowhere WikiWar waiting to happen
[07:18] <Treenaks> have you tried talking to the other spec-writers?
[07:18] <superm1> well having two very similar specs are another war waiting to happen though
[07:18] <Treenaks> if they want the same thing, it might be useful to work together
[07:18] <superm1> your much better off talking with the other spec writers
[07:18] <superm1> and trying to work together
[07:39] <tepsipakki> does someone know if casper.log is saved during livecd-install?
[07:58] <shawarma> Mithrandir: You mentioned you could install feisty in qemu.. Could you start the installer (I'm using the server CD, but any one should do), get past the point where it looks for cd-rom drives and somehow dump the dmesg somewhere, so I can see it?
[08:06] <superm1> shawarma, do you need qemu in particular, I can check in virtualbox
[08:07] <ProN00b> did nautilus get updated recently on edgy ?
[08:07] <Mithrandir> shawarma: checking
[08:12] <shawarma> superm1: It has to be qemu.
[08:12] <shawarma> superm1: It's on an amd64 machine.
[08:12] <shawarma> superm1: And vmware is not an option.
[08:12] <superm1> shawarma, wasn't sure - since i had thought virtualbox was qemu based
[08:13] <shawarma> superm1: Oh, no it's not. They share a tiny bit of code, IIRC, but that's it.
[08:13] <superm1> ah ok
[08:13] <shawarma> Mithrandir: I checked up on the cross-emulations thing, by the way.
[08:14] <shawarma> Mithrandir: The thing is that you have to run the x86_64 emulator for kqemu to work, but inside it, you should run non 64-bit stuff.
[08:34] <Mithrandir> shawarma: hm, ok
[08:36] <shawarma> Mithrandir: I tried the amd64 version, which failed miserably.
[08:37] <ProN00b> did nautilus get updated recently on edgy ?
[08:37] <shawarma> Mithrandir: Rumour has it that Fedora seems to work, but the kqemu web page says it's experimental, so I didn't think much of it.
[08:37] <Mithrandir> ProN00b: yes, a week ago.
[08:38] <Mithrandir> shawarma: I'm getting horrible speed to cdimage.u.c, so I won't know for another twenty minutes if it works or not.
[08:38] <ProN00b> hmm, damnit, i have to recompile it every time to retain my changes
[08:39] <ProN00b> how do i get the current updated edgy source of it ?
[08:39] <shawarma> Mithrandir: Quite alright. I'll grab some dinner. Thanks for doing this.
[08:39] <shawarma> ProN00b: Add an appropriate deb-src line to sources.list, and do 'apt-get source nautilus'
[08:40] <shawarma> ProN00b: "appropriate" == "one that matches the deb line which got you the update"
[08:40] <ProN00b> hmm, does that include security ?
[08:40] <shawarma> ProN00b: Yes.
[08:41] <shawarma> ProN00b: We're obligated to provide the source for all our packages.
[08:41] <shawarma> ProN00b: It's no different for security updates.
[08:42] <ProN00b> hmm, ya i seem to have all deb lines mirrored with deb-src in sources.list
[08:42] <ProN00b> any special way to build ?
[08:42] <ProN00b> i just need to replace the "nautilus" binary
[08:57] <juliux> hi all
[09:10] <Mithrandir> shawarma: I can't get past the cdrom detection either; looks like some modules are missing in d-i.
[09:14] <shawarma> Mithrandir: ide-generic used to suffice, I think.
[09:23] <shawarma> Mithrandir: Any good ideas? Otherwise, I'll just file a bug against the kernel.
[09:27] <Mithrandir> no great ideas, no.  Talk to Colin about it, he can probably tell at a glance.  Or BenC who knows the kernel well.
[09:34] <superm1> BenC, any word on my lirc patch?
[10:28] <shawarma> Mithrandir: Will do. Thanks a lot for trying!
[11:40] <_ion> Is there a bzr branch for linux-restricted-modules development?
[11:40] <shawarma> _ion: I'd expect to find it in git..
[11:41] <shawarma> _ion: Try asking in #ubuntu-kernel
[11:42] <_ion> Thanks


[06:06] <GunnarHj> Good morning seb128!
[06:07] <GunnarHj> seb128: Unless it's too late, the fix of bug #1823778 is now complete and uploadable.
[06:07] <ubot5`> bug 1823778 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu Bionic) "Unable to set Serbian as Language" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1823778
[06:28] <didrocks> good morning
[06:57] <duflu> Morning didrocks
[07:19] <didrocks> hey duflu
[07:19] <jibel> morning all
[07:19] <didrocks> salut jibel
[07:27] <duflu> Morning jibel
[07:41] <seb128> hey GunnarHj, it's a bit late for release but we can upload and see, if they don't let in then it auto turns into a SRU
[07:41] <seb128> hey duflu
[07:41] <seb128> lut didrocks jibel
[07:41] <seb128> did you guys had a good w.e?
[07:46] <didrocks> salut seb128 ! Bof, gastro, toujours l'angine, petite forme quoi
[07:47] <didrocks> et toi ?
[07:47] <seb128> :(
[07:47] <seb128> ici ça va, un léger mal de gorge mais c'est tout
[07:47] <duflu> Hi seb128
[08:01] <Laney> hi
[08:03] <seb128> hey Laney, how are you? had a good w.e?
[08:07] <Laney> hey seb128
[08:07] <Laney> yeah not bad, lazy one going to the pub with friends and then doing some garden stuff on sunday
[08:07] <Laney> you?
[08:09] <seb128> I'm good, we had diner/played board games with friends on saturday evening, otherwise relaxing w.e just walking around a bit in the city and taking it easy
[08:09] <seb128> now debugging gst autopkgtest unhappiness on i386 *g*
[08:10] <didrocks> hey Laney
[08:10] <Laney> yep saw that stuff
[08:11] <Laney> yo didrocks, how are you?
[08:11] <didrocks> still sick, starting to be long :/
[08:11] <Laney> :(
[08:11] <Laney> any progress?
[08:12] <duflu> Morning Laney
[08:13] <didrocks> Laney: will go back to the doctor this afternoon, but yeah, no progress, even a little bit worse during nights
[08:16] <Laney> hey duflu, are you well?
[08:16]  * Laney hugs didrocks
[08:17]  * didrocks hugs Laney back (carefully to avoid flu-or-whatever passing)
[08:17] <duflu> Hi Laney. Back problems again. I may yet have to invest in an even more expensive chair
[08:17] <duflu> You Laney?
[08:20] <Laney> yeah I'm alright
[08:20]  * Laney donates to the #ubuntu-desktop health clinic
[08:21] <seb128> the tooth is fixed?
[08:21] <Laney> seems so
[08:22] <seb128> great :)
[08:26] <Laney> :>
[08:30] <willcooke> morning all
[08:33] <seb128> hey willcooke, how is London?
[08:34] <willcooke> hi seb128 - on the train still.  The sun is out though, so it's looking pretty good.  How are you doing?  Good weekend?
[08:35] <seb128> willcooke, I'm good, yes pretty nice. Diner/board game with friends on saturday evening, otherwise mostly relaxed/enjoyed the sunny weather (though it was cold, almost 0°C at night, brrrr)
[08:35] <seb128> you?
[08:36] <didrocks> hey willcooke
[08:36] <willcooke> Golf on Saturday, ground was frozen first thing and then it hailed!
[08:36] <willcooke> morning didrocks
[08:36] <didrocks> Laney: are you heading to London as well?
[08:37] <Laney> yeah tomorrow
[08:37] <Laney> got some Things To Do™
[08:40] <willcooke> morning Laney
[08:40] <Laney> yo willcooke
[08:40] <Laney> what up
[08:42] <duflu> Morning willcooke
[08:42] <willcooke> afternoon duflu
[08:43] <willcooke> duflu, have you seen anything like what's reported in this bug?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/1824661
[08:43] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1824661 in Ubuntu "Nvidia issues with 19.04 and XPS 15 9750 GTX 1050 Ti Mobile: Boots to blank screen that flashes a couple times. Can't get to tty." [Undecided,Incomplete]
[08:43] <willcooke> Feels like a lot of the "odd" problems we get with nv are related to these mobile chips
[08:44] <duflu> willcooke, yeah there's always a few bugs like that around. But I can't assume which one it is till the feedback is received
[08:45] <duflu> willcooke, now added to this list: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bugs?field.tag=nvidia
[08:46] <willcooke> thanks duflu
[08:46] <willcooke> oh, now the page loads, I see you had already commented on the bug, thanks a lot duflu
[08:48] <willcooke> meh, something odd happening with this wifi.  All Google links are coming back with broken certs
[08:48] <willcooke> Seems IRC is still working
[09:27] <andyrock> morning all!
[09:27] <seb128> good morning andyrock!
[09:28] <duflu> Morning andyrock
[09:28] <didrocks> hey andyrock
[09:40] <sparkiegeek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CosmicCuttlefish/ReleaseNotes#Upgrading_from_Ubuntu_18.04 suggests that "Software & updates" (software-properties-gtk) is in System Settings (gnome-control-center) - but ISTM that's not true for Bionic
[09:40] <sparkiegeek> shouldn't the instructions be something like Super-A software-properties ?
[09:41] <sparkiegeek> or even Alt-F2 software-properties-gtk
[09:41] <GunnarHj> seb128, Laney: Yeah, an early SRU of that Serbian fix would be nice. My primary hope is to fix the bionic SRU (also MP) ASAP. I put it in a PPA if that helps: https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/+archive/ubuntu/gnome-control-center
[09:43] <Laney> 'k, I'll get to it when I get a chance (feel free to ping if it's too long)
[09:49] <GunnarHj> Laney: Such a ping won't be needed, will it? ;)
[09:52]  * willcooke -> office at last
[10:21] <Laney> GunnarHj: wouldn't be unheard of :<
[10:32] <GunnarHj> Laney: I added some verbal explanation to the MP.
[10:32] <Laney> Ta.
[11:11] <seb128> GunnarHj, looking at the code seems ok but I need to test it ... btw what is upstream doing in that regard?
[11:13] <GunnarHj> seb128: Upstream pretends that modifiers don't exist. https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-desktop/issues/50
[11:13] <gitbot> GNOME issue 50 in gnome-desktop "Display locale @modifiers properly" [5. Libgnome-Desktop, Bugzilla, Opened]
[11:17] <GunnarHj> seb128: Btw, it's in a PPA if you want to test. https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/+archive/ubuntu/gnome-control-center
[11:18] <seb128> GunnarHj, thx
[11:46] <seb128> willcooke, andyrock, so the g-i-s fix works, good job! (it's not really nice, on the inspiron it spins for like 1m30 or something, but that's not our fault)
[11:46] <seb128> (tested today's daily)
[12:04] <willcooke> seb128, did some testing here, the spinner doesn't spin for me, but it does work - the page reloads and the apps appear
[12:04] <willcooke> andyrock is going to see why it's not spinning.  It is for him :)
[12:04] <seb128> it is for me as well
[12:04] <seb128> on the inspiron
[12:06] <seb128> I hope it does spin not so long on a less low-spec machine though, it really looks buggy otherwise :/
[12:06] <seb128> it takes less time for a full OS to boot than for the snapd service to get ready, that's a bit ridiculous
[12:07] <willcooke> On a vbox vm it loads in about 30 seconds or so
[12:07] <willcooke> could be because I'm in the office though
[12:07] <willcooke> I will try from the train on the way home
[12:07] <seb128> it shouldn't have to do with internet/the env
[12:08] <seb128> it's mostly snapd doing its things which takes time
[12:17] <didrocks> I guess a good fallback would be "if not after xxx seconds, offline answer"
[12:17] <didrocks> but ideally, that would be in snapd itself
[12:19] <seb128> well, it does spin only for a limited time
[12:20] <seb128> and you can do "finish" any time if you wish
[12:20] <seb128> there is not much more we can from the UI side, it's really the service delay with is the issue for the user experience...
[12:20] <popey> is there some way to launch gnome-initial-setup other than deleting the .config file for it?
[12:21] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, hence the service could by itself have a SLA and in that case send back a default list
[12:22] <didrocks> popey: I don't think so (from --help)
[12:22] <popey> hm
[12:22] <didrocks> popey: /usr/libexec/gnome-initial-setup --existing-user
[12:22] <didrocks> I'm wrong, just run it, the check is only in the autostart file
[12:23] <popey> great! Thanks
[12:23] <didrocks> yw!
[12:24] <popey> we have updated the ubuntu-firstrun category in the store, but I'm not seeing that reflected in g-i-s
[12:24] <seb128> didrocks, yeah, ideally snapd would just handle the queries from early boot without having to wait for the snaps to be in place etc
[12:24] <popey> I only see 9 applications in the list.
[12:24] <seb128> popey, you don't see the right apps, or you see the right ones but would just wish it would display more entries?
[12:25] <didrocks> yep ;)
[12:25] <popey> there's not enough in the list, some are missing that I know should be there
[12:25] <seb128> popey, can you do the same query from the snap command line?
[12:26] <popey> yes
[12:26] <popey> curl -s -H 'X-Ubuntu-Series: 16' "https://api.snapcraft.io/api/v1/snaps/search?confinement=strict,classic&scope=wide&arch=wide&x=$(date +%s)&fields=package_name&section=ubuntu-firstrun" | jq
[12:26] <seb128> and it's fine there?
[12:26] <seb128> do you have the same ones missing the UI every time (which ones?) or does it change?
[12:26] <popey> looks same every time I launch
[12:29] <willcooke> remember its hiding ones you already have installed
[12:29] <popey> oh!
[12:29] <popey> I didn't know that.
[12:30]  * willcooke -> meeting
[12:31] <popey> I'll start a clean VM and test it.
[13:24] <sparkiegeek> hmm, after upgrading (from Bionic) to Disco, I hit an issue where Bluetooth failed to establish a connection to my headset. in dmesg, I see https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/y95cN8nHPX/
[13:24] <sparkiegeek> note that my bluetooth adapter is USB, and I had it plugged in to a hub built in to my keyboard
[13:25] <sparkiegeek> I have subsequently tried it in a different USB port, and got success
[13:25] <sparkiegeek> but this is a regression, since (with workarounds) I had it working just fine via the keyboard in Bionic
[13:30] <seb128> sparkiegeek, hey, what do you mean "with workarounds"
[13:31] <seb128> 'hci0: corrupted ACL packet" does look like a kernel/drive issue more than a desktop one though
[14:00] <seb128> tseliot, hey, is https://community.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-19-04-and-nvidia-settings/10580 something you saw?
[14:00] <seb128> seems like it was also reported as bug #1822937 on launchpad
[14:00] <ubot5`> bug 1822937 in nvidia-settings (Ubuntu) "NVIDIA settings won't write to /etc/xorg" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1822937
[14:03] <tseliot> seb128: maybe there is something wrong with the polkit dependency, or maybe they are using a version of nvidia-settings that is not from the archive
[14:04] <tseliot> I can have a look later this week
[14:04] <seb128> tseliot, k, let me ask on the post to start
[14:12] <andyrock> seb128: I found the problem with livepatch indicator (the one about the fact that it fails to go from the warning state to the ok state)
[14:12] <seb128> andyrock, oh, nice
[14:12] <andyrock> seb128: basically there is an undocumented state in livepatch ("applying")
[14:12] <andyrock> the fix should be quick
[14:13] <andyrock> so if the state == "applying" reschedule the check (like we do for "needs-check" and "unapplied")
[14:13] <andyrock> I'll open a bug and propose a fix, sorry about that!
[14:16] <seb128> andyrock, no worry, good that you figured it out, at least it was not wasted time :)
[14:21] <andyrock> seb128: should I open a bug? that indicator is not displayed in disco and not yet released in bionic
[14:21] <andyrock> seb128: wdyt?
[14:21] <seb128> andyrock, don't bother, just do a mp
[14:21] <andyrock> kk
[14:22] <seb128> andyrock, I will reupload to bionic SRU with the fix included
[14:41] <willcooke> anyone know if one can "arrange" the icons on the desktop any more?
[14:41] <willcooke> on D
[14:42] <willcooke> report from a user who upgraded said that his desktop icons all got moved (which is entirely unexpected) - but I dont see an easy way to have them arrange themselves in a grid without dragging each icon
[14:51] <willcooke> s/is entirely/is not entirely
[14:51] <Laney> don't think so
[14:52] <Laney> https://gitlab.gnome.org/World/ShellExtensions/desktop-icons/issues/98 probably
[14:52] <gitbot> Shell extensions issue 98 in desktop-icons "Rearrange / Sort icons" [Opened]
[14:55] <willcooke> thanks Laney
[14:55] <Laney> Quality Bug Report
[14:55] <willcooke> :D
[14:58] <willcooke> This one might evolve in to something more useful: https://gitlab.gnome.org/World/ShellExtensions/desktop-icons/issues/95
[14:58] <gitbot> Shell extensions issue 95 in desktop-icons "Icon placement setting" [Opened]
[14:58] <willcooke> hi CadBane
[14:59] <willcooke> CadBane, so yeah, looks like an "arrange" feature is missing from the extension which provides icons on the desktop at the moment.  There are a couple of bugs open upstream which look to cover that feature, so likely this is something which will come in time. In the meantime I'm afraid it looks like the only option is drag them to where you want them.
[15:00] <willcooke> I'm going to subscribe to those two bugs and keep an eye on it
[15:29] <seb128> right, the new code is not having all the options/features nautilus had (some by 'design'/choice to not make the code more complex and difficult to maintain that needed)
[15:29] <seb128> I guess we are going to schedule work/improvements according to the feedback we get
[15:38] <tseliot> Laney: when you suggested that I add the casper-bottom script to ORDER, what did you mean by ORDER?
[15:38] <Laney> tseliot: when you break=bottom, look in /scripts/casper-bottom/, it's there
[15:39] <Laney> I don't know what it does or if that is even required
[15:39] <Laney> it's generated somehow, so hacking it is only for testing
[15:39] <Laney> if it is even needed for that
[15:39] <tseliot> Laney: oh, I didn't notice. I'll try that. Thanks
[15:39] <Laney> there's no mention of that filename in casper
[15:39] <Trevinho> Morning!
[15:39] <Laney> so I dunno where it comes from
[15:39] <Laney> it's all a mystery
[15:40] <Laney> hi Trevinho, how's it going?
[15:42] <Trevinho> Laney: hey. all good.. intense weekend.
[15:42] <Trevinho> you?
[15:45] <Laney> doing what? or... don't we want to know? 🙈
[15:45] <Laney> i'm alright
[15:46] <Laney> feeling stupid though, not been able to make progress on the casper bug I was trying to work out (but cyphermox is looking too, so that's nice)
[15:52] <Laney> gtg for a bit, see you later or from the office tomorrow
[15:54] <willcooke> see you Laney
[15:56]  * willcooke -> train.  bbl
[16:52] <Trevinho> Laney: ahahaha, no, tranquilo! xD
[16:52] <Trevinho> well, mostly because of hiking the Teothiuacan pyramids
[17:01] <willcooke>  /me -> car -> home bbiab
[17:22] <sparkiegeek> seb128: sorry, IRC notifications screwed up - "with workarounds" is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/1822073
[17:22] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1822073 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "Bluetooth headset profile forgotten after disconnection" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[17:22] <sparkiegeek> seb128: and agree it's likely not a desktop bug
[17:23] <sparkiegeek> anyway, EOD
[18:40] <willcooke> night all, see you tomorrow.  Train in again tomorrow


[12:02] <Langley> Hello, I have put Ubuntu MATE on my Raspby 2 and we noticed there is now swap. Is that supposed to be so?
[12:18] <Langley> I mean, no swap. And I guess that's normal
[18:13] <Lisaaaa> Can somebody help me


[15:55] <RyanTheInternetP> hi
[18:21] <thoufi> hello ubuntu's ..
[18:22] <jith> hi
[18:22] <jith> any one is here
[18:22] <jith> ?
[18:22] <thoufi> want to know abt ubuntu deepy..
[18:22] <thoufi> pls help
[18:22] <jith> me too new to ubuntu
[18:23] <thoufi> oh ....share some ideas to create a webpage using php
[21:51] <faroukus> hello
[21:54] <irrsi> hello


[05:51] <Wellark> asac: could you please direct that someone to channel #mbca
[09:16] <XioNoX> hi!
[09:25]  * gnomefreak wants to be able to type :( i type way too slow now
[10:55] <gnomefreak> did Mozilla drop chatzilla or just made it its own package?
[10:56] <gnomefreak> Mozilla made package "Snow" that is a chat client/messaging client
[10:56] <gnomefreak> seems its an extension
[10:57] <asac> gnomefreak: yes: snowl
[10:57] <asac> its a messaging extension for browser
[10:57] <asac> Jazzva: ^^
[10:57] <asac> ;)
[10:57] <asac> package!
[10:57] <asac> ;)
[10:57] <gnomefreak> its experimental
[10:58] <gnomefreak> but looks pretty good
[11:06] <asac> gnomefreak: yep
[11:06] <asac> gnomefreak: is there an official "preview" version out there somewhere?
[11:07] <gnomefreak> yes let me get you site
[11:07] <gnomefreak> asac: http://labs.mozilla.com/2008/08/introducing-snowl/
[11:08] <gnomefreak> doesnt look like it does IRC
[11:10] <gnomefreak> asac: Warning: the initial prototype is a primitive implementation with many bugs, and subsequent versions will include changes that break functionality and delete all your messages, making you start over from scratch.
[11:10] <gnomefreak> brb smoke
[11:11] <asac> yeah
[11:11] <asac> thought so
[11:26] <gnomefreak> tar doesnt use -z or its not working
[11:26] <gnomefreak> its still in --help
[11:27] <gnomefreak> ah it cant be at the end of -  like xfzv
[11:32] <gnomefreak> gnash keeps craashing
[11:55] <asac> gnomefreak: intrepid?
[11:55] <asac> which version?
[12:03] <gnomefreak> asac: intrepid 0.8.2-0ubuntu3
[12:03] <gnomefreak> im gonna go finish eating
[12:36] <Jazzva> asac, snowl is the name?
[12:37] <gnomefreak> yes
[12:37] <Jazzva> gnomefreak, have you seen the report for july? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Extensions/ReportJuly08
[12:37] <gnomefreak> Jazzva: i wouldnt start on it at this time
[12:37] <Jazzva> Feel free to improve it
[12:37] <gnomefreak> yes i havent gotten around to it since i hurt my wrist somehing awful
[12:37] <gnomefreak> i think i fixedd typo
[12:37] <Jazzva> ouch :(... sorry to hear that
[12:38] <Jazzva> when will your wrist get better?
[12:38] <gnomefreak> Jazzva: its ok hurts and looking at 10 weeks in this damn splint
[12:38] <gnomefreak> one dr said 2 weeks but my neorologist said 10
[12:38] <Jazzva> damn :(
[12:39] <gnomefreak> its called radial nerve palsey
[12:40] <Jazzva> mhm... i'll see at the wiki, if it has anything on it
[12:40] <gnomefreak> ok ill be back i got to try to shower so i can make it to my meeting with physical theropey
[12:40] <Jazzva> ok... good luck
[12:40] <gnomefreak> Jazzva: sevearl months is what i saw but i dont know
[12:40] <gnomefreak> ok later guys
[12:41] <Jazzva> see you later
[13:17] <gandi> asac: ping
[13:37] <asac> gandi: http://paste.ubuntu.com/35503/
[13:39] <asac> gandi: tell me whats unclear, so i can improve before submitting to bugzilla
[13:39] <gandi> ok
[13:41] <Jazzva> asac, http://paste.ubuntu.com/35505/
[13:41] <Jazzva> I got those errors
[13:42] <asac> Jazzva: whats at those lines?
[13:42] <asac> e.g. lists.js 37
[13:42] <asac> and service.js:46
[13:42] <gandi> asac: the last part sounds to me like if you want the notification to appear everytime a user opens a website with a plugin that has alternatives
[13:43] <Jazzva> asac, http://paste.ubuntu.com/35507/ for list.js
[13:43] <Jazzva> the first line in paste is line 37
[13:44] <Jazzva> asac, http://paste.ubuntu.com/35508/
[13:44] <Jazzva> line 46 is "Cu.import("resource://snowl/modules/datastore.js");"
[13:45] <asac> Jazzva: where are those?
[13:45] <asac> are those files included in xpi?
[13:45] <Jazzva> yep
[13:45] <Jazzva> datastore.js is in modules/
[13:46] <Jazzva> I can read it from fx by opening that uri
[13:47] <Jazzva> also, I'm able to open service.js
[13:49] <asac> Jazzva: does the same happen when you install the .xpi?
[13:49] <asac> e.g. manually in your profile?
[13:49] <Jazzva> let's see..
[13:49] <asac> gandi: in the end thats true. i am not sure where to display it though
[13:49] <asac> it could be a icon in the status bar (bottom)
[13:50] <asac> or something floating on top, which the user can turn off
[13:50] <asac> i think having a icon on the bottom would be the least intrusive thing.
[13:51] <gandi> asac: you want to attack a user with information about gnash EVERY TIME he visits a website with flash???
[13:51] <gandi> even when he has flash already installed?
[13:51] <asac> gnomefreak: err. i dont want to attach him ;)
[13:51] <gandi> sounds extremely offensive against the user to me
[13:51] <asac> gandi:
[13:51] <asac> gandi: well. i think you are right. thats why i say, display a small icon in the bottom (unintrusive)
[13:51] <gandi> still
[13:51] <gandi> you want to change the UI
[13:52] <gandi> to let the user know that he can change the plugin...
[13:52] <asac> if the user clicks on it, the plugins management opens for the mime-types on that site
[13:52] <gandi> I can hardly imagine this being anything but disturbing
[13:52] <gandi> users open several hundred websites daily
[13:52] <gandi> 99% of them has flash
[13:52] <asac> gandi: its a "manage" plugins button
[13:52] <asac> gandi: when there is no alternative, the user doesnt get that suggestion
[13:52] <asac> so on windows nothing changes ;)
[13:52] <gandi> I cannot imagine a use in showing a user several hundred times per day that we have an alternative for him
[13:53] <gandi> asac: but on linux you want to give user additional "information" all the time
[13:53] <asac> gandi: its a "manage plugins on this site" button in the button
[13:53] <gandi> what's the reason?
[13:54] <asac> s/in the button/on the bottom status bar/
[13:54] <Jazzva> asac, yes...
[13:54] <Jazzva> at least we have the packaging :)
[13:54] <gandi> I must say I don't understand that element and I will have hard time to defend it. I believe UI should be clean and sane and not display even a single bit of info more than absolutely needed
[13:54] <gandi> and I don't think that info about alternatives for plugins is very useful
[13:54] <gandi> if he can view the website, he's done
[13:54] <gandi> ok, let's skip that part
[13:55] <gandi> I would like to get a comparsion of mconnors idea with yours
[13:55] <asac> gandi: fair enough.
[13:55] <gandi> especially in the part of what's better in yours
[13:55] <gandi> to lobby among others
[13:55] <asac> gandi: he doesnt want to improve plugins management
[13:55] <gandi> it seems he want - he said he wants to replace pfs with a website
[13:55] <gandi> that will display a list of choices for given mimetype
[13:55] <gandi> right?
[13:56] <asac> gandi: yes. but managing plugins isnt really possible there.
[13:56] <asac> e.g. like what i described in plugins management
[13:56] <asac> select installed alternatives or trigger search for additional alternatives for each mime-type
[13:57] <gandi> can you write it in addition to that text pls?
[13:57] <asac> gandi: there is no text available from mconnor outlining his idea
[13:57] <asac> so i cannot refer to anything
[13:58] <gandi> right
[13:58] <gandi> ok
[13:58] <asac> the difference is: install plugins from website
[13:58] <gandi> then post yours
[13:58] <asac> or mange them in UI
[13:58] <gandi> and I'll ask mconnor for comment
[13:58] <asac> the rest is religion
[13:58] <gandi> right
[13:58] <asac> imo everyone should see that managing plugins like described there is a better user-experience
[13:58] <gandi> the important piece of your idea is how it improves the life of linux vendors
[13:58] <gandi> because I want to lobby it among linux vendors ;)
[13:59] <asac> gandi: no. it also improves life for windows users. as we get a "per-mime-type" plugins management
[13:59] <gandi> yea, but I will not lobby it among windows vendors ;p
[13:59] <asac> hehe
[13:59] <asac> sure
[13:59] <gandi> microsoft is out of scope ;)
[13:59] <gandi> ok, so please, post it in the bug
[13:59] <gandi> and I'll do the first round of lobbying
[13:59] <asac> ok. I will remove the last paragraph
[14:00] <jcastro> asac: are you handling webkit for intrepid or is that someone else?
[14:00] <gandi> you don't have to. I just think that the last proposition is very much against the usability
[14:00] <asac> jcastro: Jazzva was doing it. though it seb's point of view was a bit unclear
[14:01] <jcastro> asac: Oops, I meant to ask you as in "mozilla-team"
[14:01] <asac> gandi: well. i dont want to raise "debatable things" to give others an attach vector
[14:01] <gandi> you expose very technical information at the very exposed position very often for a task that will be useful for minority once per their installation phase
[14:01] <gandi> right
[14:03] <Jazzva> asac, jcastro: webkit has been approved by pitti afaik
[14:03] <jcastro> Jazzva: I was just trying to find out who packaged it, and to ask that person if they're doing the pywebkit bindings as well
[14:03] <jcastro> so I guess that's you? :)
[14:03] <Jazzva> and I think someone told me that he will do epiphany-webkit...
[14:04] <Jazzva> jcastro, nope, wasn't me :)
[14:04] <jcastro> k, thanks, I'll ask pitti next time I see him
[14:04] <Jazzva> asac and I just prepared the MIR for webkit
[14:04] <fta> i thought mike from debian was doing that
[14:04] <asac> fta: he does that in debian. but we need to take care on our own here
[14:05] <asac> fta: for instance debian is stuck with old gnome now
[14:05] <asac> and they are frozen ;)
[14:05] <asac> so we have to move ahead
[14:05] <asac> 1) webkit + 2) gnome ;)
[14:05] <jcastro> reason I ask is that conduit just asked pywebkit for a release tarball so he can do some stuff wwith it during this cycle
[14:05] <asac> jcastro: huats is doing that
[14:06] <jcastro> and I thought it'd be nice to have the bindings already in for intrepid
[14:06] <asac> he just asked me today if i would review his package for the python bindings as soon as he has finished that package
[14:06] <jcastro> asac: thanks
[14:06] <asac> i said: "fine".
[14:06] <jcastro> oh, excellent, thanks
[14:06] <asac> jcastro: i guess he will have a package available in the next days
[14:06] <asac> not sure for alpha-4 though
[14:07] <asac> gandi: http://paste.ubuntu.com/35513/
[14:07] <jcastro> asac: I don't care so much for the alpha, "Eventually in intrepid" is good enough for me. :)
[14:08] <asac> jcastro: then rest still ;) ... apparently there will be python bindings
[14:08] <gandi> asac: I miss info about that you will be offered combined channel (??) from PFS data and data from vendor package system
[14:08] <fta> ... but don't hold your breath
[14:09] <gandi> and how it's going to support installation of plugins as packages?
[14:09] <asac> gandi: thats not a user-experience thing. IMO, that should be discussed at the "implementation" level
[14:09] <gandi> plus in case of plugins management, looking at Preferences->Application tab does not help me understand the UI for comboboxes I think
[14:09] <gandi> asac: but isn't it crucial for this?
[14:09] <gandi> also I disagree
[14:09] <gandi> it's not about UI for Firefox
[14:10] <gandi> but it's about user experience
[14:10] <gandi> for linux users
[14:10] <asac> ok
[14:10] <asac> what is unclear about the comboboxes?
[14:10] <gandi> who'll choose the plugin and see package manager window installing the pacakge right?
[14:11] <gandi> asac: not sure. Maybe notify that you just want the second column to be made of combo boxes (or drop-down lists?) to switch plugin player?
[14:12] <asac> gandi: i just want it to be the same as its in application. just that the right-hand thing has the options i outlined in the text
[14:12] <asac> so better call it "drop-down list"
[14:13] <asac> i open to any change that makes this more clear for mozillas. I just dont want to paint a mock-up ;)
[14:13] <asac> as its already there
[14:13] <gandi> ok
[14:13] <asac> gandi: so how to change the text (suggestions welcome)
[14:13] <gandi> so I would add a section describing the big change in the source of packages
[14:13] <gandi> that would combine the data (or replace it?) between pfs and package management system
[14:14] <gandi> so that vendor can plug their plugin package system
[14:14] <gandi> and allow user to instal plugins as packages
[14:14] <asac> gandi: right
[14:14] <gandi> that would raise consistency
[14:14] <gandi> and allow for better OS management
[14:14] <gandi> question is what happens when user has no admin rights?
[14:24] <asac> gandi: in the end the user would get an authentication box to escalate his privileges
[14:24] <asac> gandi: when he hits install
[14:24] <asac> gandi: if the user is in the admin group he can use his own credentials. otherwise he needs to know the credentials of an admin user
[14:25] <asac> gandi: thats something that is done by distro tools and shouldnt matter much for the firefox UI imo
[14:25] <gandi> and if he doesn't he will not be able to install the plugin or will he fallback to default method?
[14:25] <asac> gandi: that depends on the distro backend imo.
[14:25] <gandi> ok
[14:26] <asac> gandi: the distro backend could provide an option to install to profile
[14:26] <asac> gandi: do you run ubuntu?
[14:26] <asac> i could show you how other dialog do that
[14:26] <gandi> not at the very moment
[14:27] <gandi> I have ubuntu on my machine
[14:27] <gandi> wait
[14:27] <gandi> I have 8.10 in virtualbox
[14:27] <asac> gandi: good.
[14:27] <asac> open the "user administration" thing
[14:27] <gandi> let me start it
[14:27] <asac> until you "unlock", the operations that require admin rights stay disabled
[14:28] <asac> we could place a similar button in the install dialog
[14:28] <gandi> yea I know
[14:28] <asac> so results that only have a "global" install method, dont get displayed or are greyed out until you unlocked
[14:28] <gandi> I do care if mconnors approach has any better solution for users without admin privileges
[14:28] <asac> better than the "unlock" approach? most likely not
[14:29] <gandi> go to macromedia.com website, download zip package and install it into your profile?
[14:30] <asac> gandi: how does his approach know what to suggest to the user?
[14:31] <asac> if he just displays two ways: "install globally" + "install to profile" we can certainly do that as well
[14:32] <gandi> yea, I don't know
[14:32] <gandi> I'm trying to think ahead
[14:33] <asac> sure. i think his solution is either: "vendor installer has to be smart" ... or: "user has to decide on its own"
[14:33] <asac> i think our approach can at least to the same
[14:33] <asac> for instance: apturl could auto-fallback and install plugin in profile if user cannot/does not want to unlock
[14:34] <asac> - that would be equivalent to "vendor installer has to be smart"
[14:35] <asac> or: we provide a "Global Install ..." button +  a "Profile Install ..." button
[14:35] <asac> which would be equivalent to the "user has to decide approach"
[14:35] <gandi> can we just fall back to this in case global install failes?
[14:35] <asac> we could improve that by disabling "Global Install ..." until the user properly "Unlocks"
[14:36] <asac> gandi: yes. as long as the "install method" support "profile install ..." we can fallback
[14:36] <asac> gandi: i would like to implement that for .debs
[14:37] <asac> so the debian/ubuntu backend would have it
[14:37] <gandi> cool
[14:37] <gandi> can you write it down
[14:37] <gandi> as a section in your design doc
[14:37] <gandi> and attach to the bug
[14:37] <gandi> ?
[14:38] <gandi> then I'll ask mconnor for feedback
[14:38] <gandi> and reed
[14:38] <XioNoX> and about updates ?
[14:38] <gandi> and others
[14:39] <XioNoX> if the plugin is installed system wide, and an update is aviable, the user will install it in his profile, no ?
[14:40] <XioNoX> so there will be differents versions of the same plugins, it cant be conflict sources ?
[14:40] <asac> XioNoX: ? if the user installs plugin system wide through apt he will be automatically upgraded through the ubuntu packaging system
[14:41] <XioNoX> ok, but if there are many users who use the PC, and only 1 who have admin roghts
[14:41] <XioNoX> err rights
[14:42] <asac> well. i dont see a way to prevent users from installing their own plugin
[14:43] <XioNoX> something like disabling the updates of system wide installed plugin for non admin users
[14:44] <XioNoX> like you do for firefox
[14:44] <asac> XioNoX: thats a separate feature i think
[14:44] <asac> we already have system wide plugins
[14:44] <asac> in firefox
[14:45] <asac> so if that feature doesnt exist yet, its a separate enhancement imo
[14:45] <XioNoX> ok
[14:51] <asac> gandi: i really dont think we should try to address all arguments in advance. better follow up once there is concrete critizism
[14:52] <gandi> yes, but if you wont add this section noone will know this adventage of this proposal :)
[15:07] <asac> gandi: http://paste.ubuntu.com/35532/
[15:10] <asac> gandi: http://paste.ubuntu.com/35533/ <-- sorry, this is the one
[15:11] <gandi> great
[15:11] <gandi> !
[15:11] <gandi> go-ahead from me
[15:12] <asac> gandi: there are lots of fine things that can be improved, but lets start discussion first.
[15:12] <asac> [reed]: http://paste.ubuntu.com/35533/
[15:12] <gandi> yea
[15:12] <asac> can you look at that and if you have some initial suggestsions let me know
[15:12] <asac> if you sign that off I will post it to bug
[15:13] <asac> gandi: if [reed] doesnt give input today, I will jsut go ahead
[15:13] <asac> gandi: actually i have a great idea how to manage plugins for "current site"
[15:14] <asac> gandi: instead of changing UI of main window we could add a check-box in the "Manage Plugins" tab, that reads "filter by content used on current site"
[15:15] <asac> so if the user wants to look for alternatives of the currently used mime-type he would go to "plugins" tab and click that checkbox
[15:15] <asac> then would just have three entries there, for which he can select alternatives
[15:15] <asac> but well. thats fine tuning imo
[15:25] <asac> last version: http://paste.ubuntu.com/35546/
[15:25] <asac> (just for me so i have the link ;))
[16:14] <[reed]> asac: reading
[16:15] <[reed]> asac: looks pretty good
[16:15] <[reed]> asac: has beltzner / madhava / Boriss / faaborg checked it out?
[16:18] <asac> [reed]: no. i wanted you to prove read it and will now submit it to the bug
[16:18] <asac> mozilla bug 449188
[16:18] <asac> then we can start discussing this
[16:22] <asac> ok submitted
[16:22] <asac> gandi: ^^
[16:22] <[reed]> asac: it has some spelling/grammar mistakes, but it's readable, nonetheless
[16:22] <asac> too bad ;)
[16:22] <[reed]> so, it's fine
[16:22] <asac> err, too late :-D
[16:22] <[reed]> yeah, sorry... was fixing the netsplit on moznet
[16:23] <gandi> asac: cool
[16:23] <gandi> asac: thanks!
[16:27] <asac> *sigh* launchpad is against at its very slowest :(
[16:42] <bfiller_> asac: how do I turn off bookmarks toolbar by default? Looks like it's stored in localstore.rdf in users profile
[16:43] <asac> slangasek: i wanted to wait a day. announcement will go out at end of work day ;)
[16:43] <asac> ups
[16:43] <bfiller_> asac: looking at source I see /mozilla/browser/locales/en-US/profile/localstore.rdf but it's empty for the most part. Do I add it in there and rebuild?
[16:45] <gandi> [reed]: caillion?
[16:46] <gandi> [reed]: other vendors to CC to that bug?
[16:46] <[reed]> yeah
[16:46] <[reed]> my Firefox just crashed, though
[16:46] <gandi> impossible
[16:46] <gandi> never happened to me
[16:50] <asac> gandi: blizzard, caillon
[16:51] <sebner> asac: nm 0.7 is just crazy xD
[16:53] <asac> sebner: like in "awesome" or "incomprehensible" ?
[16:54] <sebner> asac: both xD
[17:06] <Jazzva> off... seems it's gonna be a big storm...
[17:06] <Jazzva> see you later
[17:41] <bfiller_> asac: figured it out, you need to modify browser.xul and add "collapsed=true" to the PersonalToolbar section
[17:41] <asac> bfiller_: cant you use a .css file that is shipped in the extension?
[17:42] <asac> will the toolbar also disappear from View ?
[17:42] <bfiller_> asac: i haven't tried going the .css route, sound like that would be easier (wouldn't have to rebuild ff)
[17:43] <bfiller_> asac: toolbar still in View menu, just unchecked by default
[17:44] <armin76> bumb
[17:44] <armin76> bumb asac!
[17:45] <asac> bfiller_: does the element in browser have collapsed=false in the original .xul?
[17:45] <bfiller_> asac: no, it doesn't have the attribute at all
[17:45] <asac> bfiller_: otherwise i'd suggest to try to overlay that element from the extension
[17:45] <asac> look http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/XUL_Tutorial:Overlays
[17:46] <asac> bfiller_: look for "Let's change the help menu in this manner. "
[17:46] <asac> which is the example that _adds_ attributes through an overlay
[17:46] <bfiller_> asac: i'll take a look, thanks
[17:47] <asac> bfiller_: if that element doesnt have an id=... it might be a bit difficult to match it in a unique fashion
[17:47] <asac> if it has an id=... it should work
[17:47] <asac> easily
[17:48] <bfiller_> asac:  it does have an id <toolbar id="PersonalToolbar"...>
[17:49] <asac> bfiller_: should work then
[17:50] <bfiller_> asac: cool
[17:50] <asac> bfiller_: in worst case you can do removeelement="true" and just add the line like you want in that overlay ;)
[17:50] <asac> bfiller_: is all on that tutorial page
[17:52] <asac> if you have probs just ask ... ill be out for a while now though.
[17:52] <asac> ;)
[17:52] <asac> dinner and shopping and so on
[20:21] <jcastro> asac: awake?
[20:25] <fta> [18:52] <asac> dinner and shopping and so on