[07:32] <InHisName>  morning again !!!  lazyPower
[10:40] <lazyPower> Morning InHisName :)
[15:29] <Mutant> so i have a desktop... but it won't boot... trying to diagnose
[15:31] <Mutant> 1) fans spin up, 2) no lights though, 3) no beeps (not sure if has a beep),  4) might be getting an occasional mdns ping from the cpu via wireshark
[15:31] <Mutant>  sort of have no ideas really


[00:10] <bryce_> heya tepsipakki, sorry we missed you for dinner
[01:50] <ubotu> New bug: #37929 in xorg (main) "Logitech mouse goes crazy" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/37929
[10:28] <ubotu> New bug: #154939 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15 (restricted) "Corrupt mouse on ATI Xinerama" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/154939
[10:56] <ubotu> New bug: #158292 in xrandr (main) "Bottom task bar moves up an inch when I connect to external video/projector" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158292
[12:11] <ubotu> New bug: #40748 in xorg "[ia64] gdm: impossible to login / missing xserver-common package" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40748
[12:35] <ubotu> New bug: #158303 in xorg (main) "external output looses sync - intel 945 - xrandr" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158303
[12:41] <ubotu> New bug: #158304 in xorg (main) "Xorg sporadically requires long keypresses in order to register typing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158304
[13:45] <bryce_> heya
[13:45] <tepsipakki> hi
[14:02] <tepsipakki> bryce_: what session are you attending? I can't decide :)
[14:03] <bryce_> I'm in the platform/internationalization one
[14:03] <bryce_> tepsipakki: don't know how interesting it'll be from an X perspective; mostly attending just since I'm on the platform team
[14:03] <bryce_> I imagine the desktop one would be more interesting for X
[14:04] <tepsipakki> right, there's the roundtable first :)
[14:04] <tepsipakki> I'll try that
[14:07] <bryce_> I'm thinking about desktop-automated-tests at 11, and then kernel through until lunch (I have a meeting with them at 12:30 regarding an issue regarding an -i810 landscape/portrait bug)
[14:10] <tepsipakki> duh, no seats left here :)
[14:12] <ubotu> New bug: #154343 in xorg (main) "Computer locks up randomly during certain programs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/154343
[14:13] <tepsipakki> bryce_: btw, martin approved most of the packages on the sync list
[14:13] <tepsipakki> last night
[14:14] <tepsipakki> only the first set of video-drivers left
[14:14] <bryce_> awesome :-)
[14:14] <tepsipakki> yeah :)
[14:24] <bryce_> I was working on -intel last night (for updates); now just need to get it building
[14:33] <tepsipakki> cool
[14:33] <tepsipakki> we should probably talk with the kernel guys about TTM..
[14:33] <bryce_> yeah
[14:33] <bryce_> and drm
[14:35] <tepsipakki> btw, my credit limit got filled because they charged the room on check in :)
[14:35] <tepsipakki> but it's sorted out now
[14:35] <tepsipakki> 1000e more to spend! :)
[14:35] <bryce_> ouch
[14:35] <bryce_> hehe
[14:38] <tepsipakki> about TTM; I believe it was Mirco who mentioned here that the problems with video&GLX should get fixed on hardy
[14:39] <tepsipakki> which implies TM
[14:39] <tepsipakki> eh, TTM
[14:39] <bryce_> it'll be interesting to see how hard that'd be to backport...
[14:41] <tepsipakki> yeah, I have no idea how much that inferes other parts of the kernel
[14:41] <tepsipakki> +ter
[14:41] <tepsipakki> heh
[14:51] <tepsipakki> +with
[14:51] <tepsipakki> dammit
[14:51] <tepsipakki> proofreading your own text is great fun
[14:51] <bryce_> :-)
[14:52] <tepsipakki> irssi should have support for that
[14:52] <tepsipakki> I think I'll go to the kernel session
[14:54] <bryce_> lots of green:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Xorg/versions_current.html
[14:55] <bryce_> yeah maybe I'll do that too
[14:57] <tepsipakki> green, as it should be ;)
[14:57] <tepsipakki> for the most part at least
[15:49] <bryce_> tepsipakki: any xorg stuff we want to ask the kernel guys?
[15:52] <tepsipakki> righ, we're set I think :)
[15:52] <bryce_> yup
[17:30] <ubotu> New bug: #158387 in xorg (main) "Resolution on login screen incorrect" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158387
[18:46] <ubotu> New bug: #158404 in xserver-xorg-driver-savage (main) "LCD backlight does not turn off in X.org using xset with S3 Savage" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158404
[19:31] <ubotu> New bug: #158415 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (main) "widescreen resolution isn't recognized for external monitor after hotplugging but after system start [i915]" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158415
[20:16] <bryce_> tepsipakki: chair's open again
[20:17] <tepsipakki> heh, thanks :)
[23:50] <ubotu> New bug: #158485 in xserver-xorg-video-mga (main) "X server fatal error with mga driver using overlay 8+24" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158485


[04:47] <Kilos> ohi superfly hows things there by you?
[04:48] <Kilos> hi inetpro paddatrapper and everyone else
[05:11] <paddatrapper> Hey Kilos
[06:09] <pavlushka> ahoy ZA!
[06:58] <pavlushka> I need help on this, http://paste.ubuntu.com/23315390/ , cant guess where the problem is.
[06:58] <pavlushka> or my guesses aren't working.
[07:06] <Langjan> Hi Kilos enjoying the weekend?
[11:27] <qwebirc24409> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[13:14] <pavlushka> ahoy ZA!
[15:29] <pavlushka> ahoy za!
[15:33] <pavlushka> please I need help on this http://paste.ubuntu.com/23315390/
[19:29] <gremble> Good evening
[19:33] <kulelu88> evening
[19:40] <gremble> How are you kulelu88
[19:40] <kulelu88> good mate and you?
[19:41] <gremble> I am well thank you.
[19:41] <gremble> Finished your telegram bot?
[19:42] <kulelu88> gremble: actually, I finished implementing user authentication
[19:43] <gremble> Nice. :P
[19:43] <kulelu88> looks like it's finally raining
[19:45] <gremble> I wish. My trees are suffering
[19:45] <gremble> It also looks like I don't have any more semester tests
[19:46] <gremble> All students will have access to the final examination (this means there is no exam entrance requirement).  The semester mark construction will be communicated to you in due course.
[19:47] <kulelu88> last ditch attempt for the 'protestors' who failed already :P
[19:50] <gremble> Without a second semester test, I also fail that subject :P
[19:52] <kulelu88> LOL!
[19:53] <gremble> I think.  I've heard that they're extremely tough
[19:57] <gremble> They are very difficult and I hate myself for considering taking the 300 modules next year
[19:58] <kulelu88> but you can't do math without statistics right?
[19:58] <gremble> You can. Stats is my elective
[19:58] <gremble> I am majoring in math and applied math, but you can also major in statistics if you want haha
[20:00] <kulelu88> could you choose programming as an elective?
[20:01] <kulelu88> people attempting to make python 'fast' again: https://github.com/channelcat/sanic
[20:02] <gremble> No, not with mathematics.  Geology and Chemistry are working to allow their students to take mathematics as a major and allowing mathematics to take a geology or chemistry major. If I recall correctly, microbiology and physics has that already.
[20:04] <gremble> With BSc IT you can take mathematics as a major too, iirc
[20:05] <kulelu88> can math majors take philosophy as an elective/major ?
[20:05] <kulelu88> :P
[20:05] <gremble> Gah. I tried
[20:06] <gremble> I went to both the philosophy department and the mathematics department to get them to agree with me do do that.
[20:06] <gremble> Because I already have most of the philosophy done haha
[20:06] <kulelu88> philosophy is interesting, I must add
[20:06] <gremble> I need like three semesters then I can do post grad
[20:09] <kulelu88> you really do want to do research heh
[20:10] <gremble> Yup :P
[20:11] <kulelu88> oh man, you will then be Dr. gremble :D
[20:12] <gremble> I hope so. Maybe even Prof. gremble :P
[20:14] <kulelu88> that'll be awesome!
[20:14] <kulelu88> check this out: https://git-ssb.celehner.com/
[20:16] <gremble> What am I looking at?
[20:16] <kulelu88> distributed github-like code-repo hosting
[20:27] <gremble> That's pretty cool


[11:10] <snap-l> Good morning
[11:11] <rick_h> morning
[12:50] <jrwren> good mornin
[12:51] <jrwren> does flav still idle here?
[12:52] <jrwren> n0p: is there such a thing as idiomatic PHP? where can I learn about it? where is PHP's version of pep8 ?
[12:52] <jrwren> yes, i'm doing PHP. lemme know if you would like a new job :)
[12:52] <rick_h> widox: is the other PHP guy
[12:52] <rick_h> Zend coding standards I think the pep8 of the php world
[12:52] <rick_h> http://framework.zend.com/manual/en/coding-standard.html
[12:53] <jrwren> thanks rick_h
[12:53] <rick_h> I'm far enough out that idiomatic might be a stretch for me. I mean it does have namespaces now and such
[12:54] <jrwren> i have not seen them used.
[12:54] <jrwren> but that is a great point. i should be glad that classes are even used on thsi project :)
[12:54] <rick_h> lol
[12:55] <rick_h> it seems to have gotten better. I think I saw mixins in the latest release
[12:56] <jrwren> we are still on 4.something, I think.
[12:56] <rick_h> no way
[12:56] <jrwren> oh, 5.3.10
[12:56] <jrwren> i'm surprised
[12:56] <rick_h> well in that case you're doomed
[12:56] <jrwren> well, its in an embeded system.
[12:56] <jrwren> hehe. that is waht the indian guy said.
[12:56] <rick_h> ah, ok better. So I think 5.3 added namespaces
[12:57] <rick_h> yea, but I was using 5.1 5+ years ago
[12:57] <jrwren> but basically the web front end for network appliances
[12:57] <rick_h> but yea, ok 5.3 would be reasonable I'd think
[12:57] <jrwren> ok, we are alreayd not following the first two of the zend coding standards. *sigh*
[12:58] <jrwren> Zend_Db_Table lives in Zend/Db/ folder *sigh*
[12:58] <jrwren> nope, not doing that eithr.
[12:59] <rick_h> heh, well then have fun :)
[12:59] <jrwren> its ok, a lot of these are stupid.
[12:59] <jrwren> way too much java influence in teh PHP world.
[13:00] <jrwren> PHP might as well just be typeless java :p
[13:00] <rick_h> yea, but it's something. The trouble is that you can get away with doing none of it
[13:00] <snap-l> jrwren: PHP for me is backwater Perl. :)
[13:00] <jrwren> current codebase is doing none of it, and honestly, I think I like it ;)
[13:01] <jrwren> snap-l: hehe, good point. maybe those that want to write java in perl choose php?
[13:02] <jrwren> luckily i won't be doing this PHP for very long
[13:02] <snap-l> famous last words.
[13:02] <widox> jrwren: heh, if you want Java influenced PHP look at symfony
[13:02] <jrwren> widox: i DONT want java influcenced php
[13:03] <snap-l> jrwren: Oh come now, what could be better than half-assed OO in a half-assed template language?
[13:04] <snap-l> (trololololol)
[13:04] <jrwren> i have great respect for PHP. I love wordpress.
[13:05] <jrwren> i'm convinced that it is possible to have a "good" php codebase.
[13:05] <jrwren> i've just never seen one :)
[13:05] <jrwren> because good is subjective
[13:05] <jrwren> and what I think is bad, many p eople think is good.
[13:05] <jrwren> and visa versa.
[13:05] <jrwren> but I'm right, and tehy are wrong ;p
[13:07] <snap-l> jrwren: I've seen some elegance in PHP code
[13:07] <snap-l> much in the same way that I can see elegance in a broken teapot
[13:08] <snap-l> And there are some good PHP codebases out there
[13:08] <jrwren> i haven't looked at WP code in a while, has it cleaned up any?
[13:08] <snap-l> and some that have some major issues.
[13:08] <snap-l> jrwren: WP 3 made some pretty big improvements
[13:08] <jrwren> i have hacked on some WP plugins recently, and its been damned easy.
[13:41] <jrwren> about the only thing i got out of those zend coding standards were doc comments :(
[14:03] <jrwren> 5.4 added traits
[14:03] <jrwren> interesting.
[14:03] <rick_h> yea
[14:03] <jrwren> the more i learn about ruby, the more i love python
[14:03] <rick_h> yep
[14:04] <jrwren> and please don't repeat it around rubyists. i realize that statement is flamebait
[14:04] <rick_h> there are a couple of things I like in ruby land, but really can't ever get where I want to do it vs python
[14:25] <tjagoda> http://dissociatedpress.net/2012/03/27/ubuntu-were-not-linux/
[14:25] <tjagoda> ping rick_h
[14:25] <rick_h> tjagoda: howdy
[14:25] <rick_h> heh, saw that link. I pretty much ignore Joe :)
[14:26] <tjagoda> I think he's got the hots for SUSE
[14:26] <rick_h> meh, he's got the hots for Canonical bashing. We had this argument around the Locos concept on OLF
[14:26] <tjagoda> Or some weird pseudo-communist view of open source contribution
[14:26] <tjagoda> He was once the OpenSUSE community manager
[14:27] <rick_h> yea
[14:27] <tjagoda> his hatred of the brown and orange flows deep
[14:27] <tjagoda> I made a few replies, and he generally ignored my points about "Why is this surprising, they are operating at financial loss ffs"
[14:29] <rick_h> tjagoda: yea, I mean he's not exactly been unbiased for some time.
[14:32] <tjagoda> it is kind of weird that they mask Linux under the Ubuntu brand though
[14:32] <tjagoda> I get why they do it
[14:32] <tjagoda> But it seems like a big risk of slighting people
[14:34] <brousch> rick_h: you on the michipug mailing list?
[14:34] <rick_h> brousch: yea
[14:34] <rick_h> last I looked I think. Pretty low key
[14:34] <brousch> ok, then i won't forward this to you
[14:34] <brousch> some guy asking about metro detroit python
[14:34] <rick_h> k
[14:36] <rick_h> brousch: ah ok I see the email. I'll reply about CHC and such. thanks
[14:40] <jrwren> wow.
[14:40] <jrwren> that ubuntu we're not linux post is scathing.
[14:40] <jrwren> who is this jerk?
[14:41] <jrwren> I know for sure that a lot of what he says is b.s.
[14:41] <tjagoda> Joe Brockmier
[14:41] <tjagoda> I'm uncomfortable when jrwren agrees with me
[14:41] <tjagoda> Feels like the universe has somehow lost balance
[14:42] <rick_h> man, I need to update the CHC site still, I suck
[14:42] <rick_h> anyone feel like volunteering to learn how to setup the appengine crap?
[14:43] <brousch> i have used appengine
[14:47] <Blazeix> i'd also be willing to learn. i'll be at CHC tomorrow
[14:49] <brousch> like anything, it has its good and bad points
[14:49] <rick_h> Blazeix: cool, we'll make it a goal to get the site updated. It's a horrible little app
[14:49] <rick_h> Blazeix: what's your gmail address you use mainly?
[14:50] <Blazeix> rick_h: wafuqua
[14:50] <rick_h> Blazeix: ok, email sent
[14:51] <Blazeix> thanks, accepted
[15:00] <brousch> if it's little, how horrible can it be?
[15:02] <_Marcus> Viruses are small, and yet they can still kill you.
[15:14] <snap-l> Joe tends to be a more moderate opinion in the FLOSS world
[15:14] <snap-l> but yeah, I think he's putting way too much stock in word choice
[15:15] <brousch> _Marcus: but they multiply into many. i don't think that's likely with a GAE app
[15:15] <jrwren> really? that is moderate?
[15:15] <snap-l> but, then again, he's a writer. Writers tend to choose their words very carefully, and expect the same in others.
[15:15] <jrwren> well then fuck the FLOSS world.
[15:15] <snap-l> jrwren: Compared with some of the tools I've seen, yes.
[15:15] <jrwren> i do agree with him a bit about rhetoric toward RHAT.
[15:16] <snap-l> jrwren: He at least acknowledges Ubuntu. :)
[15:16] <_Marcus> brousch: GAE = Google App Engine?
[15:16] <jrwren> what happened to "we are all in this together agianst the closed source vendors"
[15:16] <snap-l> I think the biggest problem is people see Mark as a technologist
[15:16] <brousch> _Marcus: correct
[15:16] <snap-l> when he's a very motivated salesperson
[15:16] <_Marcus> brousch: Google products are strange things, you never know what could happen
[15:17] <snap-l> jrwren: Agreed, but Mark Shuttleworth is trying to sell a product
[15:17] <snap-l> plain and simple.
[15:17] <jrwren> really? what product is that?
[15:17] <snap-l> Ubuntu as a server
[15:17] <snap-l> Ubuntu as a cloud platform
[15:17] <snap-l> Ubuntu as a single-source for all of your server needs
[15:18] <jrwren> then he is doing a terrible job, because I didn't even know about these product offereings :)
[15:18] <jrwren> he needs to hire a salesforce.
[15:18] <jrwren> speaking of which, who are his salesmen?
[15:19] <snap-l> jrwren: That I couldn't tell you.
[16:37] <tjagoda> Ubuntu rolls up something like 1200 new cloud instances every day
[16:37] <tjagoda> According to an interview with their CEO
[16:38] <tjagoda> The sales departments are still in the process of growing, it was founded very engineer-heavy
[16:38] <snap-l> tjagoda: As it should be
[16:38] <jrwren> snap-l: why should it be enginner-heavy ?
[16:38] <tjagoda> At start up it should be
[16:39] <tjagoda> The rest of its life it should not be
[16:39] <jrwren> does canonical even qualify as a startup anymore? its been 8 yrs, right?
[16:39] <snap-l> jrwren: Once you get marketing folks involved, they tend to push out the engineers
[16:39] <tjagoda> I'd still call them a start up
[16:39] <tjagoda> They'll be start ups until they reach critical mass
[16:40] <jrwren> did RHAT reach critical mass?
[16:40] <tjagoda> Definitely
[16:40] <jrwren> what does critical mass even look like for RHAT or canonical ?
[16:40] <snap-l> jrwren: I'd say once they go solely into maintenance mode, they'll stop being a start-up
[16:40] <tjagoda> They roll in the pimp moneydollars
[16:40] <snap-l> jrwren: RHAT is no longer a start-up
[16:40] <snap-l> they are the first OSS Billion dollar company
[16:41] <jrwren> snap-l: but RHAT isn't solely in maintenance mode.
[16:41] <tjagoda> Red Hat swims in pools of money
[16:41] <tjagoda> In other news
[16:41] <jrwren> zomg, if RHAT swims in money, i don't want to live in open source land.
[16:41] <tjagoda> RMS fills me with anger
[16:41] <snap-l> jrwren: It is the way of things
[16:41] <snap-l> SUN used to be an OSS company
[16:42] <jrwren> when did they change ticker to RHT?
[16:42] <tjagoda> Then they started swimming in pools of money
[16:42] <jrwren> SUN was NEVER an OSS company
[16:42] <tjagoda> Ironically though
[16:42] <snap-l> jrwren: Bull
[16:42] <tjagoda> Most of Red hats $$$ come from commerical proprietary software
[16:42] <jrwren> if you think SUN was EVER OSS, then you are delusional.
[16:42] <jrwren> what Redhat $$$ comes from commercial proprietary software?
[16:42] <snap-l> jrwren: SUN was OSS before any of us knew what SUN was. They were a UNIX distribution company that started making hardware
[16:43] <tjagoda> Huge, huge swaths
[16:43] <tjagoda> Please hold while I google
[16:43] <jrwren> snap-l: you realize that SunOS and Solaris were closed source until well into 2000s ?
[16:43] <jrwren> that is not OSS
[16:43] <snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Microsystems#History
[16:44] <snap-l> And once they came out of the post-bubble crash, they started opening things back up again
[16:44] <jrwren> and JAVA was never open source until openjava.
[16:44] <snap-l> I fully believe Sun would have become an OSS company had they not screwed up their finances.
[16:44] <jrwren> so now its that they would have been...
[16:44] <jrwren> not that they were.
[16:44] <snap-l> jrwren: Right
[16:44] <tjagoda> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-9931271-16.html
[16:44] <jrwren> good.
[16:44] <tjagoda> That articles a bit old
[16:44] <jrwren> agreed.
[16:44] <jrwren> Sun was never an OSS company
[16:44] <tjagoda> But it's what I was referring to
[16:45] <tjagoda> Red hat makes a lot of $$$ from selling Lotus and etc. Linux-enabled
[16:45] <jrwren> Lotus ?
[16:45] <jrwren> that is IBM owned is it not?
[16:45] <snap-l> tjagoda: RHAT doesn't have much to do with Lotus.
[16:45] <tjagoda> Did I say they wrote/owned Lotus?
[16:45] <jrwren> you implied it.
[16:46] <tjagoda> I did not
[16:46] <tjagoda> Linux-enabled
[16:46] <jrwren> your claim is false. sorry.
[16:46] <snap-l> Oh FFS
[16:46] <tjagoda> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-9931271-16.html
[16:46] <tjagoda> Go read
[16:46] <snap-l> that article is rubbish in the first two paragraphs.
[16:46] <jrwren> RHT has no clsoed source software.
[16:46] <tjagoda> They sell Lotus Domino from IBM on Red hat services as bundles
[16:46] <jrwren> I see.
[16:46] <tjagoda> They do a lot of stuff like that
[16:46] <jrwren> 12:42   tjagoda| Most of Red hats $$$ come from commerical proprietary software
[16:46] <tjagoda> where they bundle the proprietary onto the open
[16:46] <jrwren> my bad.
[16:46] <snap-l> tjagoda: And Oracle sells Oracle DB on RHAT-derived Linux
[16:46] <jrwren> I assumed this was RHT's proprietary software.
[16:47] <jrwren> but you mean other proprietary software.
[16:47] <tjagoda> Correct
[16:47] <jrwren> "come from" means lots of things there.
[16:47] <jrwren> lots of abiguity
[16:47] <snap-l> God, apparently today is semantic bingo
[16:47] <jrwren> semantics are important.
[16:47] <snap-l> Yes, but two articles about OSS semantics
[16:47] <snap-l> The jzb article and the Matt Asay article
[16:48] <jrwren> yeah, no shit.
[16:48] <snap-l> slow fucking new day.
[16:48] <tjagoda> The core of my point was trying to express that a non-insignificant portion of RHT revenue comes from selling bundled proprietary stuff on RHT platforms
[16:48] <snap-l> news
[16:48] <jrwren> taht is from 4 yrs ago.
[16:48] <jrwren> tjagoda: definitely agree.
[16:48] <snap-l> Ah, didn't see the date.
[16:48] <jrwren> I'd guess that at least 25% if not 50% of RHT revenue comes from selling RHEL support for running oracle installs.
[16:49] <tjagoda> The only thing Red Hat itself has that is not open is their OpenShift platform
[16:49] <snap-l> I'd argue that there's a lot less Domino sales nowadays
[16:49] <snap-l> Microsoft has pretty much eaten that market with Exchange
[16:49] <snap-l> Now it's all Exchange and Exchange-compatibles.
[16:50] <tjagoda> If you want a recent article talking about red hat and proprietary stuff go read the Ars Tech one that ran a couple weeks ago, I think it's a footnote in there
[16:50] <jrwren> GM is still Notes :(
[16:50] <snap-l> jrwren: They're the last of the big three to use notes
[16:50] <snap-l> Chrysler recently switched
[16:51] <jrwren> i wonder if RHT is anti GPL3 now that they have built openshift on OSS stuff
[16:51] <tjagoda> I'm sure they will eventual OSS OpenShift
[16:51] <tjagoda> They have a rather proven track record in all their proprietary acquisitions eventually getting OSS'ed
[16:52] <snap-l> http://www.ihatelotusnotes.com/
[16:52] <jrwren> i'm not sure why I would use openshift over heroku
[16:52] <jrwren> heroku seems to be market leader int aht space right now
[16:52] <snap-l> jrwren: All it takes is a few months of effort to unseat a leader
[16:52] <snap-l> especially in cloud foo
[16:53] <jrwren> snap-l: ubuntu bug zero (or is it bug 1) suggests otherwise.
[16:53] <tjagoda> I chuckle at the irony of OpenShift being closed source, however
[16:53] <tjagoda> ClosedShift must not sell as well =P
[16:53] <snap-l> jrwren: I should have clarified in the cloud space
[16:53] <snap-l> since it is so new.
[16:53] <rick_h> meh, all about who you trust, how the costs work out, etc
[16:54] <jrwren> i disagree on cloud too.
[16:54] <rick_h> heroku is a leader, but also most people that scale out of heroku pretty easily and end up needing/looking at other things
[16:54] <jrwren> AWS ownz
[16:54] <jrwren> rick_h: exactly.
[16:54] <tjagoda> Read an article on AWS cloud infrastructure
[16:54] <tjagoda> holy jesus
[16:54] <tjagoda> thats a lot of servers
[16:54] <jrwren> although maybe that means snap-l is right and there is a space that for a new player
[16:55] <rick_h> yea, but even AWS requires special things. End of hte day apps have different pain points and if you scale out large enough you need to tweak our setup
[16:55] <snap-l> jrwren: s/maybe// ;)
[16:55] <rick_h> there's no silver bullet
[16:55] <jrwren> if you scale big enough it can even make sense to get off AWS and run your own datacente.
[16:55] <jrwren> no silver bullet
[16:55] <rick_h> jrwren: yea, but I do have to say the articles coming out of netflix and sticking with AWS is interesting
[16:56] <tjagoda> Almost 500,000 individual servers make up the EC2 cloud
[16:56] <tjagoda> and just the EC2 cloud
[16:56] <jrwren> www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~cah/G51ISS/Documents/NoSilverBullet.html
[16:56] <tjagoda> That's terrifying
[16:56] <rick_h> meh, I think you'd be surprised at how many servers there are out there.
[16:56] <tjagoda> "454,400 Blade Servers, in a total of 7,100 racks"
[16:56] <jrwren> rick_h: agreed, but I think maybe netflix just employs engineers that are taking NIH too far..
[16:56] <jrwren> sometimes NIH is a GOOD attitude
[16:57] <rick_h> jrwren: yea, it's just interesting to see/read
[16:57] <rick_h> amazing how long you can work around/with a vendor to keep going
[16:58] <jrwren> yup
[16:58] <tjagoda> Did you ever see the CPU Utilization story from AWS?
[16:58] <tjagoda> I found that interesting
[16:58] <greg-g> so, jzb article, discuss
[16:58]  * greg-g chuckles because he did see it mentioned in the scroll back, but he didn't read it all :)
[16:58] <tjagoda> http://huanliu.wordpress.com/2012/02/17/host-server-cpu-utilization-in-amazon-ec2-cloud/
[16:59] <tjagoda> You should scroll back
[16:59] <tjagoda> we've already had jrwren argue over it
[16:59] <jrwren> we did?
[16:59] <tjagoda> comment*
[16:59] <jrwren> i thought we agreed over it :p
[16:59] <tjagoda> Its a habit
[16:59] <greg-g> so, is jzb right, wrong, or in between?
[16:59] <tjagoda> I'm used to saying argue and jrwren in the same sentance
[17:00] <jrwren> i dunno if "that guy is an idiot" counts as.... nvm
[17:00] <greg-g> hah
[17:00] <greg-g> :)
[17:02] <tjagoda> He defends his position very bitterly in the comments
[17:03] <tjagoda> Estimates say google has around 1 million servers
[17:04] <tjagoda> so amazon EC2 is worth .5 googles
[17:06] <jrwren> and that is just EC2
[17:06] <jrwren> that isn't counting S3
[17:06] <tjagoda> Yeah, no S3 and etc
[17:06] <jrwren> and all the other AWS offerings.
[17:06] <jrwren> which are HUGE
[17:32] <greg-g> Re my pain in getting U1 setup on Debian: Even Canonical's own numbers show they should fucking support Debian for Ubuntu One: http://blog.canonical.com/wp-content/uploads//2012/03/OSes-preference.png
[17:32] <greg-g> good thing they have an iphone client (6th! place)
[17:32]  * greg-g grumble fucking grumble
[17:34] <tjagoda> u1 on win is a smoking pile of garbage
[17:35] <greg-g> which makes total fucking sense in Canonical's point of view since Windows is the most widely used second operating system for Ubuntu users
[17:36] <tjagoda> So they develop in reverse order?
[17:36] <tjagoda> BRING ON THE BLACKBERRY CLIENT, BABY
[17:37] <greg-g> sorry, I'm annoyed at this because Canonical is just U1 development wrong, period. No ifs ands or buts about it. Asheesh summarizes in a comment nicely: http://blog.grossmeier.net/2012/02/26/ubuntuone-debian/#comment-9398
[17:37] <greg-g> tjagoda: :)
[17:38] <greg-g> s/is just U1/is just doing U1/
[17:39] <tjagoda> Although
[17:39] <tjagoda> Jono has a good point
[17:39] <tjagoda> They aren't doing it by volume, they're doing it by "willingness to pay"
[17:39] <tjagoda> So its on the iphone because those suckers are used to shelling out tons of $$ for services
[17:39] <tjagoda> and so forth
[17:39] <tjagoda> Debian is obviously full of cheap bastards
[17:39] <tjagoda> =P
[17:39] <greg-g> and Windows users?
[17:40] <tjagoda> So confused that they'll pay for anything
[17:40] <greg-g> also, way to improve Ubuntu/Debian relations /me grumble
[17:40] <tjagoda> Debian being so freedom focused
[17:40] <greg-g> I'm huffing and puffing over here, I think my coworkers think there is something wrong with my lungs/nose
[17:40] <tjagoda> They'd set the platform on fire before they shipped with u1
[17:41] <greg-g> wrong, they'd ship it in a heart beat, the code on the desktop is all FLOSS
[17:41] <tjagoda> Really?
[17:41] <tjagoda> I thought parts of u1 were closed
[17:41] <greg-g> yeah, just the server is proprietary
[17:41] <tjagoda> ahh
[17:41] <greg-g> so, the argument many make is "it's just like a web browser surfing cnn.com (or whatever)"
[17:42] <tjagoda> That argument works for people that are Iceweasel levels of crazy?
[17:44] <tjagoda> "Supreme Court expresses skepticism over constitutionality of health care mandate"
[17:44] <tjagoda> Ohshi-
[17:44] <tjagoda> PREPARE FOR A FIRST OF FIERY CONSERVATIVE JUSTICE, AMERICA!
[17:45] <_stink_> hey, is there audio of the hearings available in full anywhere?
[17:45] <tjagoda> Health Care 2.0 will just involve sending the sick to Canda.
[17:45] <_stink_> i confess i haven't looked yet
[17:45] <tjagoda> Canada*
[17:45] <tjagoda> Dunno
[17:46] <tjagoda> http://thehill.com/video/in-the-news/218455-audio-day-two-of-supreme-court-healthcare-argements
[17:46] <tjagoda> ?
[17:46] <tjagoda> I didn't hit play
[17:46] <tjagoda> it could just be a recording or newsbite
[17:46] <_stink_> http://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_audio_detail.aspx?argument=11-398-Tuesday
[17:46] <greg-g> people were waiting in line for today's hearing since last friday
[17:46] <rick_h> greg-g: +1 on the U1 disaster bits
[17:47] <_stink_> http://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_audio_detail.aspx?argument=11-398-Monday
[17:47] <_stink_> fwiw
[17:47] <rick_h> though if you follow the job apps there's windows positions and mac positions out there for U1
[17:47] <greg-g> rick_h: w00t. I got one Canonical employee to agree ;)
[17:47] <greg-g> rick_h: oh! cool (kinda, I guess) :)
[17:47] <tjagoda> The one who works in launchpad
[17:47] <tjagoda> he can edit the blueprints
[17:47] <rick_h> greg-g: yea, I feel bad I'm a non-user, but it's really a mess
[17:47] <greg-g> clandestinely
[17:47] <tjagoda> to give you right priority
[17:48] <rick_h> heh, if you think U1 dev follows a blueprint you're confused :P
[17:48] <greg-g> lol
[17:48] <greg-g> and
[17:48] <greg-g> :(
[17:48] <tjagoda> I wanted to use U1 on Windows to sync between my Ubuntu laptop and Win7 desktop
[17:48] <rick_h> we do have marketing/mgt type people as well as engineers
[17:48]  * greg-g nods
[17:48] <tjagoda> But the win client is a steaming pile of crap
[17:48] <greg-g> tjagoda: I suggest you report a bug with that in the title
[17:48] <greg-g> :)
[17:48] <tjagoda> lol
[17:48] <tjagoda> I mean
[17:48] <tjagoda> ffs
[17:49] <rick_h> I'm sure it'd get a bunch of positive comments :)
[17:49] <tjagoda> it didn't even have error exceptions
[17:49] <tjagoda> there were no timeouts when it was failing to login
[17:49] <tjagoda> it just kept trying like some kind of mentally challenged lab mouse
[17:49] <greg-g> haha, good visual
[17:50] <rick_h> https://tbe.taleo.net/NA3/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1&rid=389
[17:51] <rick_h> and there are others for iOS mobile and such
[17:51] <tjagoda> I applied for my third Canonical position today
[17:51] <tjagoda> Technical Account Manager
[17:51] <tjagoda> My previous attempts include Launchpad Support and Operational Sysadmin
[17:52] <greg-g> Required skills and experience
[17:52] <greg-g> String communication and cooperation skills
[17:52] <greg-g> lolz
[17:52] <tjagoda> omg
[17:52] <_stink_> allow me to communicate how poorly i cooperate
[17:53] <tjagoda> In a strong manner
[17:53] <tjagoda> sorry
[17:53] <tjagoda> a string manner*
[17:53] <greg-g> _stink_: as long as you use strings to do it, you're hired
[17:53] <_stink_> augh, i have an enum from which i will use random entries :(
[17:53] <_stink_> ah well.
[17:54] <greg-g> hah, see, I was thinking like soup cans and string
[17:55] <_stink_> i suppose i should have gone with something more like string theory
[17:55] <_stink_> i'm so far removed :P
[17:55] <greg-g> _stink_: :(
[17:55] <_stink_> yeah.
[17:58] <tjagoda> Hey Rick_H
[17:58] <tjagoda> Do you understand the TAM location posting?
[17:58] <tjagoda> It says from home on the listing, but mentions houston in the detail
[17:58] <rick_h> tjagoda: TAM?
[17:59] <tjagoda> Technical Account Mana.
[17:59] <rick_h> tjagoda: linky
[17:59] <rick_h> I didn't look at it so not sure
[17:59] <tjagoda> https://tbe.taleo.net/NA3/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1&rid=428
[18:00] <rick_h> tjagoda: not sure
[18:01] <tjagoda> I operated under the "when in doubt, apply" method
[19:03] <brousch> whoa. both of my bugs reported during our bug jam have been confirmed
[19:12] <_stink_> o/
[19:14] <snap-l> brousch: Now for the hard part: getting them fixed.
[19:15] <brousch> i think they're both trivial
[19:15] <snap-l> Just received a rhythmbox one that was triaged, but then marked as invalid because upstream managed to fix it a year ago.
[19:18] <snap-l> I <3 SPAM: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/2aOvB6n5wKeuJgMx3GJd/
[19:19] <greg-g> brousch: links?
[19:19] <snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/vwwrHB1dqLFl68blvwLm/
[19:21] <greg-g> wow, presidents of Nigera, USA, and England are involved with your money transfer? important money
[19:21] <rick_h> man I hate rrd...what a pita
[19:22] <snap-l> Queen of England, no less
[19:22] <greg-g> oh right, not president
[19:22] <snap-l> Not just the Prime Minister
[19:23] <_stink_> i'm going to put a plaque in my cubicle saying i am the President of Englad.
[19:23] <_stink_> England
[19:30] <snap-l> _stink_: Maybe you can get my money wired to me from nigeria
[19:30] <snap-l> I mean, Pres. Obama should be able to be persuaded
[19:32] <_stink_> i'll give him a call
[19:32] <snap-l> tx
[19:32] <brousch> greg-g: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/945826
[19:32] <brousch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-workspace/+bug/945805
[19:34] <snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/Songs-Crystal-Cave-Steven-Seagal/dp/B0009SQ520
[19:52] <greg-g> brousch: wow, that first one is good
[19:52] <brousch> yeah, strange. must be no one ran the livecd and updated
[19:52] <greg-g> yeah
[19:55] <greg-g> want to waste some time? http://browserquest.mozilla.org/
[19:57] <brousch> not loading for me
[19:58] <greg-g> stop using IE
[19:58] <_stink_> there you go, you wasted the time trying to look at it
[19:58] <brousch> greg-g: :P
[19:58] <brousch> _stink_++
[19:59] <_stink_> spins for me too after clicking Play
[19:59] <_stink_> maybe getting /.ted or something
[19:59] <brousch> i don't even get play
[20:00] <brousch> i think greg-g is trolling us
[20:00] <_stink_> yeah
[20:01] <greg-g> serious?
[20:01] <greg-g> https://hacks.mozilla.org/2012/03/browserquest/
[20:02] <greg-g> are you using Fx 3.5?
[20:02] <_stink_> HOW DARE YOU SIR
[20:02] <_stink_> blaming the victim
[20:02] <greg-g> _stink_: :)
[20:02] <_stink_> trying again
[20:02] <_stink_> ooo here we go
[20:03] <_stink_> be still my loins
[20:03] <snap-l> _stink_: Please don't set up these jokes
[20:03] <_stink_> greg-g: what's your name on here?
[20:03] <_stink_> snap-l: i give you an open platform on which to build
[20:04] <snap-l> OSRidicule
[20:08] <_stink_> well that was fun.
[20:09] <jrwren> that is cool and all
[20:09] <jrwren> but i actually find the chrome 3d game to be more impressive
[20:11] <jrwren> Native Client is a sweet platform.
[20:11] <greg-g> _stink_: Phlegethon, my old school gaming name :)
[20:12] <greg-g> jrwren: link to that game?
[20:13] <snap-l> greg-g: THAT WAS YOU?!?!?!?!
[20:13] <snap-l> greg-g: WE HAVE NEVER GAMED BEFORE EVER.
[20:13] <snap-l> greg-g: ;)
[20:14] <jrwren> greg-g: http://chrome.supergiantgames.com/
[20:14] <jrwren> Bastion is SWEET... not that I've played.
[20:15] <jrwren> but it is built with Unity, which has Mono embedded which runs on Native Client
[20:15] <greg-g> jrwren: "This application is not supported on this computer. Installation has been disabled."
[20:15] <jrwren> you don't have Native Client?
[20:15] <greg-g> no idea
[20:15] <greg-g> Chromium 17.0.963.79
[20:15] <jrwren> do you have Chrome?
[20:15] <jrwren> where did you get the build?
[20:16] <greg-g> Ubuntu's repos for Oneiric
[20:16] <jrwren> greg-g: i was actually thinking about entanglement  http://entanglement.gopherwoodstudios.com/
[20:17] <jrwren> greg-g: ~r125985-0ubuntu ? or other ?
[20:19] <jrwren> whoa.
[20:23] <greg-g> greg@x220:~$ apt-cache policy chromium-browser
[20:23] <greg-g> chromium-browser: Installed: 17.0.963.79~r125985-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>
[20:24] <jrwren> yup.
[20:24] <jrwren> i don't see anything here about native client
[20:24] <jrwren> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/chromium-browser/precise/files/head:/debian/
[20:24] <jrwren> I've also no idea how to search http://www.chromium.org/Home to find out if it has nativeclient
[21:08] <greg-g> btw, I beat the game
[21:08] <greg-g> as in, I got the gold armor and sword :)
[21:10] <snap-l> yay
[22:46] <snap-l> Evening, and such
[22:46] <greg-g> not even 4
[22:48] <_Marcus> No, it's 6:47
[22:49] <snap-l> greg-g: Here in God's timezone, it's 6:48
[22:50] <greg-g> I run into that problem now so often. All these people on the east coast just say "I'm available at 9 or 1pm" I reply, assuming they know where CC is located with "Great! I'll call you at 9am Pacific"
[22:50] <greg-g> THEY JUST IGNORE THAT WORD THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND
[22:51] <greg-g> and I get an email at 6:30am with "well, I guess 9am didn't work, how's 1?"
[22:51] <snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, I've learned over time to add the timezone
[22:51] <greg-g> I DID!
[22:51] <greg-g> :)
[22:52] <snap-l> YOu need to translate it to EDT> :)
[22:52] <greg-g> bah, you center of the world people :)
[22:52] <snap-l> heh