[01:25] <RAOF> TheMuso: Around for a little light -intel sponsoring?  I'd quite like intel users to be able to get to X after updating :/
[01:27] <sabdfl> that sounds useful :-)
[01:28] <RAOF> Yeah.  I'm a fan of not-black-screens after boot :)
[01:31] <rickspencer3> ok, got to step away
[01:31] <rickspencer3> will come back and kick mrpes2 some more after some food ;)
[01:40] <TheMuso> RAOF: Sorry had my head burried in code. If not already sponsored, plesae point me to something I can review. :)
[01:40] <TheMuso> gah typing
[01:40] <RAOF> TheMuso: StevenK got to it before you.  You could endorse my core-dev application though :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisHalseRogers/CoreDevApplication
[01:41] <TheMuso> Yes, I could, will look after lunch, thanks for the URL.
[01:41]  * TheMuso -> lunch
[04:24] <RAOF> Anyone want to sponsor an xserver-xorg-input-synaptics upload? :)
[04:27] <TheMuso> RAOF: Sure.
[04:28] <RAOF> http://cooperteam.net/Packages/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics_1.3.99+git20110116.0e27ce3a-0ubuntu1_source.changes
[04:28] <TheMuso> Cheers.
[04:29] <TheMuso> RAOF: You left out the other changelog entries from Debian since the last merge.
[04:29] <RAOF> Bah.  So I did.
[04:29] <RAOF> Thanks.
[04:29] <TheMuso> np
[04:31] <RAOF> Updated.
[04:33] <TheMuso> Thanks.
[04:34] <TheMuso> Thats better.
[04:35]  * TheMuso test builds.
[04:43] <TheMuso> RAOF: Uploading.
[04:44] <RAOF> Rockin'
[04:45] <RAOF> Thanks.
[04:46] <TheMuso> np
[05:04] <broder> grr. wasn't it possible to run compiz under vmware as of maverick? it keeps falling back to metacity for me right now
[05:04] <broder> maybe my guest tools got borked somehow
[05:06] <RAOF> Unity has requirements above and beyond those of Compiz.  If that's what you're trying, that's what you might be running into.
[05:07] <broder> no, i'm just trying to run straight compiz in my maverick vm
[05:10] <RAOF> I therefore have nothing to say :/
[05:11]  * broder shrugs
[05:11] <broder> i'll try the actual vmware tools instead of open-vm-tools and see if that helps
[05:13] <broder> RAOF: how much compiz hacking have you done? i'm trying to figure out if the activateWindow function (i.e. CompWindow::activate() in the new world order) will move you between workspaces
[05:14] <RAOF> I've done no compiz hacking at all.
[05:14] <RAOF> I'm not the droid you are looking for :)
[05:14] <broder> fair enough :). maybe i'll bug didrocks if i'm still awake when he shows up
[05:14] <broder> (or maybe i'll get compiz running in my vm and can find out for myself)
[07:24] <pitti> broder: server-side dbus doesn't work yet from python with gdbus, I'm afraid
[07:24] <pitti> Good morning
[07:26] <broder> pitti: ah, so python-dbus is still the way to go for that, then?
[07:30] <Smaug> hello all.  I have installed ubuntu 10.4 on my computer via Wubi.  My wireless internet is not working.  It does not detect any networks.  My wireless card is an Intel 4965AGN.  Can anyone offer me some help?
[07:32] <broder> !support | Smaug
[07:32] <ubot2> Smaug: The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org and http://askubuntu.com
[07:33] <Smaug> thanks
[07:42] <pitti> broder: I'm afraid so, yes
[07:44] <bentech4you> any one please explain this script wget /dev/null -o /dev/null http://$1/ &
[07:46] <RAOF> pitti: Good morning
[07:46] <pitti> hey RAOF
[07:47] <pitti> bentech4you: the first /dev/null makes no sense
[07:53] <bentech4you> k..-0 /dev/null means output redirect to null file na..?
[07:54] <bentech4you> http://$1/ & ..i am confused with this
[07:56] <pitti> bentech4you: that's -O, not 0 or o
[07:56] <pitti> that's the output file, yes; the argument is the URL you want to download,and the & runs that in the backgroud
[07:56] <pitti> as you are apparently not interested in the page content, tihs is by and large a "ping" to that web site
[07:59] <bentech4you> but $1 means a variable something na.?
[08:02] <pitti> yes, first command line argument
[08:09] <didrocks> good morning
[08:19] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[08:20] <didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti, how are you?
[08:20] <pitti> I'm great, how about you?
[08:20] <pitti> didrocks: happy release day!
[08:20] <didrocks> pitti: hehe, I hope it will be a happy day :)
[08:20] <didrocks> otherwise, I'm fine, thanks :)
[08:29] <mvo> hey didrocks and pitti
[08:29] <pitti> hey mvo
[08:29] <mvo> gooood morning
[08:29] <pitti> guuuuten Morrrrrrrrrrrrgen!
[08:29] <didrocks> good morning mvo
[08:29]  * pitti takes his Halsectomy gun and kills of the last remaining stragglers in main
[08:30] <mvo> bammm :)
[08:38] <didrocks> poor Hal :)
[08:48] <pitti> bryceh, RAOF: in your next xorg-server upload, would you mind dropping the libhal-dev build dependency?
[08:49] <pitti> bryceh, RAOF: the udev backend is working well enough, and we don't really support hal any more, so I'd really like to drop it to universe
[08:59] <seb128> hey
[08:59] <pitti> hey seb128
[09:00] <didrocks> good morning seb128
[09:07] <mvo> mpt: around? I'm just fixing some gwibber integratin in software-center and I would like to remove the link to apt.ubuntu.com for now until we provide a basic page on the webserver. currently it shows "you appear to be not running ubuntu" when clicking on the link
[09:07] <mvo> mpt: the other one I would like is "reviewed %(appname)s in Ubuntu Software Center: %(rating)s %(summary)s %(link)s")" i.e. mention ubuntu in the twitter line (and/or software center)
[09:07] <mvo> mpt: what do you think?
[09:10] <didrocks> pitti: FYI, just a second prototype of places are landing today, the rest will land on Monday (discussed with the dx team, there is no way they have time to land all the places work today with enough quality). However, to ensure we have the right CD space, I'll still recommends unity-places-* so that this + zg get back on the CD
[09:10] <mpt> mvo, those two are related. If it ends with a link to an ubuntu.com domain, and especially once that goes to a page talking about Ubuntu, it's not necessary to mention Ubuntu a second time.
[09:10] <pitti> didrocks: ah, good
[09:10] <mpt> mvo, in either case, though, "in Ubuntu Software Center" takes a lot of characters away from the review summary.
[09:10] <didrocks> sorry for the delay, but better to get something working than crashing quite often like now :)
[09:11] <mpt> mvo, how about just "in Ubuntu" for now?
[09:11] <mvo> mpt: sounds good to me
[09:13] <mvo> mpt: thanks! and in the next call we need to bring up the issue that apt.ubuntu.com is really not that great for non-ubuntu people yet
[09:15] <pitti> Riddell: ok for me to drop the hal dependency of libqtserviceframework1?
[09:15] <pitti> Riddell: the package doesn't build-depend on libhal-dev anyway, so it doesn't even have hal functionality
[09:15] <pitti> Riddell: and it'll get rid of another package on the Kubuntu CDs then :)
[09:15] <pitti> oh, it's not actually on the CDs
[09:16] <pitti> but still, keeps hal in main
[09:16] <Riddell> pitti: mm, well it certainly uses hal
[09:16] <Riddell> actually it's more a question for the mobile people I think
[09:17] <pitti> how?
[09:17] <pitti> ./plugins/contacts/symbian/contactsmodel/tsrc/t_groups.cpp:#include <hal.h>
[09:17] <pitti> ./plugins/contacts/symbian/contactsmodel/tsrc/t_utils.h:#include <hal.h>
[09:17] <pitti> that's the only two instances I can find
[09:17] <pitti> and it doesn't build-dep on hal
[09:18] <pitti> ah, it directly talks to DBus
[09:18] <Riddell> yes, it's Qt mobility's hardware library
[09:19] <Riddell> I'm ok with losing that feature, it's not something KDE cares about, we could move hal to a recommend or suggest, but we should probably check with the mobile people as I say
[09:20] <pitti> I'll file a bug on Debian and Ubuntu
[09:20] <pitti> and we can drop it once it's the only remaining dependency?
[09:21] <Riddell> k3b still uses hal too, although I don't think the package depends on it, I need to package the new upstream version to fix that
[09:23] <kamstrup> didrocks: do you know the state of the zg 0.7 packaging?
[09:23]  * Riddell slightly surprised to learn that qtmobility sources also list every public toilet in New South Wales
[09:24] <didrocks> kamstrup: I discussed last week with RainCT and he told me that he'll get it in debian this week, then we will merge from it, why?
[09:25] <pitti> Riddell: do you know why qtmobility is in main in the first place? only for qtwebkit? the MIR hasn't even been approved yet
[09:27] <pitti> qmf apparently was also pre-promoted and is already in mian
[09:28] <kamstrup> didrocks: oh, no biggie, I just wanted to make sure we got it in, because there is a range of nice optimizations in there
[09:28] <didrocks> kamstrup: I think it won't be for alpha2 TBH, but I'll ensure we have it just after
[09:38] <Riddell> pitti: yes, qtwebkit needs libqtmultimediakit1 from qtmobility
[09:53] <huats> morning
[09:54] <kamstrup> didrocks: ok, that's fine by me
[09:55] <didrocks> hey huats!
[09:55] <huats> hello didrocks !
[09:57] <pitti> didrocks: do you know if the new release by any chance fix the "menus appear under all windows" proble?
[09:57] <pitti> m
[09:57] <didrocks> pitti: it's compiz, and yeah it is
[09:57] <pitti> \o/
[09:57] <didrocks> pitti: but we had new issues
[09:57] <didrocks> pitti: you can already have it in the ubuntu-desktop ppa
[09:58] <didrocks> pitti: I'm backporting new fixes to fix the other issues (bugs #707853  and #707852)
[09:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 707853 in compiz "Window geometry isn't restored" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/707853
[09:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 707852 in compiz "all window appears to the top left corner" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/707852
[09:58] <didrocks> but there is an ABI break, so I'm rebuiding everything :)
[09:59] <pitti> micahg: do you keep thunderbird in VCS somewhere? I'd like to remove the unnecessary libhal-dev build dep
[10:49] <rodrigo_> how do I remove a firefox extension by hand? it's preventing firefox from starting and makes it crash all the time
[10:52] <Laney> start it in safe mode
[10:53] <RAOF> pitti: I'm happy drop libhal in the next xserver upload.
[10:53] <pitti> RAOF: \o/ cheers
[10:53] <pitti> RAOF: just talked to some other guys about the remaining rdepends, and it looks like we can get rid of all of them in natty :)
[10:54] <RAOF> Which should, agents of chaos willing, be tomorrow.
[10:54]  * pitti tears apart a rubber chicken to put them into a graceful mood
[11:13] <didrocks> RAOF: excellent :)
[11:13] <didrocks> RAOF: btw, is the nvidia with the new Xorg stack available?
[11:15] <chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, you can also just delete the extension from your profile folder (~/.mozilla/firefox/<random_name>/extensions/<extension_id>
[11:20] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[11:20] <chrisccoulson> hi pitti
[11:21] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[11:22] <rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, hmm, that folder is empty
[11:23] <rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, this is ff 4
[11:23] <chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, in natty? how did you install the extension?
[11:23] <rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, it's from ff 3, I guess it just got updated and crashes ff
[11:24] <chrisccoulson> it should be in the extensions folder though :/
[11:25] <rodrigo_> so, how do I start it in safe mode?
[11:25] <rodrigo_> ah, -safe-mode
[11:28] <chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, "firefox -safe-mode" should do it
[11:29] <chrisccoulson> do you know what extension makes it crash btw?
[11:29] <rodrigo_> ok, now the buggy extensios are disabled
[11:29] <rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, yes, so far yoono and jsonview
[11:29] <rodrigo_> checking the others
[11:30] <chrisccoulson> you don't happen to have moonlight installed do you?
[11:30] <rodrigo_> no
[11:30] <chrisccoulson> ah, that's ok then
[11:30] <rodrigo_> and yes, those 2 are the buggy ones, the others seem to work
[11:31] <chrisccoulson> moonlight will definately crash it, it's pretty much the most frequent crash being reported to mozilla from ubuntu users now
[11:31] <chrisccoulson> i suspect that will end up being blacklisted
[11:32] <chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, do either of those extensions ship binary components?
[11:33] <rodrigo_> hmm, let me see, I guess so
[11:33] <chrisccoulson> i hope so ;)
[11:36] <rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, where should I look? ~/.mozilla/firefox/<random_name>/extensions/ is empty
[11:36] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, i'm confused about why that is empty, do you have any other folders in ~/.mozilla/firefox
[11:37] <chrisccoulson> in any case, it would be worth installing firefox-dbg and then running it in gdb just to see where it crashes
[11:38] <chrisccoulson> you can run firefox in gdb with "firefox -g"
[11:38] <rodrigo_> chrisccoulson,  ls ~/.mozilla/firefox
[11:38] <rodrigo_> console.log  Crash Reports  i8scanam.josmprofile  pluginreg.dat  profiles.ini
[11:39] <rodrigo_> ok,m running it in gdb
[11:45] <rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, http://pastebin.com/pwqj5d1d
[11:46] <rodrigo_> this is with yoono extension enabled, doesn't crash if I disable it
[11:48] <chrisccoulson> interesting, so, it's not crashing inside native code provided by the extension
[11:48] <chrisccoulson> do you get a crash dialog? would be worth submitting that one to mozilla
[11:48] <rodrigo_> yes, already submitted a few times :-)
[11:49] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[11:49] <chrisccoulson> i'll install that extension later and see if i get the same
[11:49] <rodrigo_> ok thanks
[11:53] <ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: around?
[11:53] <chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, yeah, i am
[11:54] <ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: PM ?
[11:54] <chrisccoulson> yeah, sure
[12:03] <ari-tczew> does anybody know when can I catch Robert Ancell ?
[12:05] <chrisccoulson> he's 11 hours ahead of me, so it's 11pm for him now
[12:05] <chrisccoulson> and i think he's at LCA this week too
[12:06] <ari-tczew> I'd like to merge bluez and sponsor by him :)
[12:06] <seb128> hey ari-tczew, could you stop that?
[12:07] <seb128> don't request sponsoring by someone specific but just let sponsors of the day do their work
[12:07] <seb128> btw didn't we say yesterday that gedit was not worth doing a merge and upload?
[12:07] <ari-tczew> seb128: chrisccoulson agreed to upload
[12:08] <ari-tczew> seb128: I can stop contributing if you like
[12:08] <seb128> ...
[12:08] <czajkowski> ari-tczew: I'm sure seb128 isn't saying don't contribute, just perhaps finding someone on IRC may not be the best solution, either pm or mail them
[12:08] <chrisccoulson> i said i'd sponsor it because it has a bug fix from debian that is worth taking :)
[12:08] <seb128> you are not easy are you?
[12:08] <ari-tczew> seb128: that's life
[12:08] <ari-tczew> you won't cooperate only with people which you like
[12:09] <ari-tczew> you have to get to use
[12:09] <seb128> nobody else has been trying to do what you are doing and select their sponsors
[12:09] <seb128> but nobody got issues getting endorsements for membership due to it
[12:09] <seb128> you are creating extra work and confusion for no reason
[12:09] <ari-tczew> don't worry, only until FeatureFreeze
[12:10] <seb128> well you are creating extra work for a while now
[12:10] <seb128> so maybe it's time to stop doing that
[12:10] <ari-tczew> seb128: ok I'm stoppping contribution
[12:11] <seb128> ari-tczew, ok, you're call
[12:11] <ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: please sponsor these 2 merges and I won't do anything anymore
[12:12] <chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, i'll sponsor those in a bit
[12:12] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[12:12] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: is it normal that firefox uses a lot of memory when you browse lots of images?
[12:13] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda, it depends on what sort of images, and how big they are ;)
[12:13] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: I can easily pump firefox up to 1GB (and add ~300MB to Xorg process) by just reading comics ;)
[12:13] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: not that big
[12:13] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, have you got any examples?
[12:14] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: hmm..
[12:14] <kklimonda> now this is an embarassing moment, when I have to admit I'm reading manga ;)
[12:14] <chrisccoulson> someone did report a bug a while ago where viewing a particularly large image caused firefox to allocate so many X resources that the system died
[12:14] <chrisccoulson> lol
[12:15] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: I think you can reproduce it by opening http://somemangas.com/manga/Holyland/1 and reading one page at a time..
[12:18] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda, thanks. it doesn't seem to go crazy here though :(
[12:19] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: bah, it's going to be a nightmare to reproduce it then ;)
[12:21] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda, are you on nvidia?
[12:22] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: indeed :)
[12:22] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: closed driver
[12:22] <kklimonda> (I can't use nouveau, it brings computer to knees when I open web pages with a lot of images like google image search)
[12:33] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda, the nvidia drivers are the only supported drivers where you can create a GL context in firefox right now
[12:33] <chrisccoulson> not sure if that's at all related ;)
[12:34] <chrisccoulson> i was trying to figure out a way you could stop it from doing that, but it doesn't seem like it without patching it
[12:35] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda, http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/file/c07c9b91ec4d/gfx/thebes/GLContextProviderGLX.cpp#l228
[12:36] <chrisccoulson> perhaps i should override it and see ;)
[12:36] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: we could try, but I do seem to recall that happening earlier and this change is rather new?
[12:36] <kklimonda> I can't be sure of that - I tend to forget unimportant (to me) things rather fast :)
[12:37] <chrisccoulson> i think only the whitelist is new
[13:09] <cyphermox> good morning!
[13:11] <didrocks> hey cyphermox :)
[13:13] <cyphermox> seb128, re the libgdata7 dep in e-d-s: I filed a merge request -> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/evolution-data-server/libgdata7-nbs/+merge/47598
[13:42] <lool> pitti: Hey, we're currently using some really dumb distutils based setup.py in a Linaro component right now, and I was considering python-distutils-extra to replace that; I was asked whether we should use setuptools though; I guess you'd recommend distutils-extra, is it a superset of setuptools, or do you know what possible features we'd miss?  :-)
[13:43] <pitti> lool: TBH I haven't used setuptools myself
[13:43] <pitti> but it certainly doesn't do things like mo file building, icon installation, etc.
[13:44] <lool> Ok; thanks
[13:46] <lool> pitti: How to you roll apport and/or jockey release tarballs?
[13:46] <lool> sdist?
[13:46] <lool> doesn't that generate a MANIFEST and stuff
[13:46] <pitti> right
[13:47] <pitti> lool: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jockey-hackers/jockey/trunk/view/head:/do-release is what I use for jockey
[13:48] <pitti> it does a few more things
[13:48] <lool> pitti: thanks
[13:53] <micahg> pitti: should be lp:thunderbird
[13:54] <micahg> pitti: the problem is we use that branch for dailies as well, that's why I didn't drop it
[13:55] <pitti> micahg: but the code doesn't use hal anywhere, so I uploaded a new natty version which just drops it
[13:56] <micahg> pitti: still listed in the system requirements: http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/thunderbird/system-requirements/
[13:57] <chrisccoulson> i think they need to update that ;)
[13:57] <chrisccoulson> i can't think why HAL would have ever been required
[13:58] <micahg> pitti: we need to upload a new version to natty anyways, we can drop it
[13:58] <pitti> chrisccoulson: it's nowhere in the code
[13:59] <pitti> micahg: ok, thanks
[13:59] <micahg> chrisccoulson: unless you were waiting until after alpha2 for 3.1.8
[14:00] <chrisccoulson> micahg - no, i was just waiting until the official announcement for the 3.1.8 builds
[14:00] <chrisccoulson> which was this morning or late yesterday i think
[14:00] <micahg> chrisccoulson: ah, ok
[14:01] <chrisccoulson> oh, the bzr branch is out of date ;)
[14:01] <chrisccoulson> pitti!
[14:01] <chrisccoulson> :-)
[14:02] <pitti> It didn't have Vcs-Bzr:, and I didn't get an IRC response, so I uploaded; but I'm happy to send you a debdiff
[14:02] <chrisccoulson> heh, it's ok. i can fix it ;)
[14:02] <pitti> ok, thanks
[14:06] <cyphermox> could someone please take another look at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/ubuntu/natty/evolution-rss/688776.stan+debfixes/+merge/47090 ? :)
[14:07] <micahg> cyphermox: I commented last week, but didn't receive an update e-mail sorry, can look tonight if no one gets to it sooner
[14:07] <cyphermox> micahg, oh, ok
[14:08] <cyphermox> I don't know why you don't receive update emails but I addressed your comments. thanks ;)
[14:09] <kklimonda> hmm, firefox doesn't warn me when I close window with multiple tabs opened (I have the option selected in preferences)
[14:09] <micahg> cyphermox: ah, I think because there was no follow up comment
[14:09] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda, that's intentional (see mozilla bug 592822)
[14:09] <ubot2> Mozilla bug 592822 in General "Remove quit warning dialog" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=592822
[14:10] <cyphermox> micahg, oh, i'll take note of that from now on :)
[14:10] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: can I reenable the previous behaviour?
[14:10] <micahg> cyphermox: maybe merge proposals should send code update notices as well, idk
[14:11] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: I've somehow managed to close the window twice ;)
[14:11] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda, you can turn on the warning again by changing the value of browser.warnOnQuit in about:config
[14:11] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda, the session is saved by default still though, so you can restore it from the history menu
[14:12] <chrisccoulson> what will most likely happen is that there will be a "restore previous session" button in about:home
[14:12] <chrisccoulson> but that is no use for us, because we change the default homepage to our own ;)
[14:13] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: can you add one?
[14:13] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda, not really. our homepage is online, whereas the firefox home page is all local content
[14:13] <kenvandine> chrisccoulson, that would be cool on our's
[14:13] <kenvandine> bummer
[14:13] <chrisccoulson> kenvandine, i've been thinking of implementing a homepage using offline content ;)
[14:14] <chrisccoulson> but obviously, that would only work in firefox ;)
[14:14] <kenvandine> chrisccoulson, what's the status of the global menu in natty?  i am so loving it :)
[14:14] <kenvandine> yay for consistency!
[14:15] <chrisccoulson> it would also avoid the hacks we have now where we select a different homepage URL depending on your search engine
[14:15] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: well, it may be worth considering if Firefox changes the behaviour and relies on its home page for providing nice user experience.
[14:15] <chrisccoulson> because, if it's local content, you can detect the users search engine locally, and get the search URL from the local search plugin
[14:15] <kklimonda> the "Restore previous session" in the history menu isn't as accessible.
[14:16] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda, yeah, that sucks. i'm considering reverting that pref in ubufox for now. the new behaviour is really broken for anybody not using the firefox start page
[14:24] <mterry> bratsche, could you review https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/gtk/ubuntu-f10 for me?  I didn't want to push it without you looking at it
[14:26] <pitti> seb128: would you mind if I updated gtk-doc to 1.16? it allegedly fixes out-of-tree builds
[14:26] <pitti> which I need for udev; the current hack that I have there breaks the gir
[14:26] <seb128> pitti, not at all
[14:26] <seb128> go for it
[14:27] <bratsche> mterry: Does this also catch things like Alt-F and stuff?
[14:27] <seb128> hey mterry, can you make sure your pending changes are on ted's review list before he rolls tarballs today?
[14:27] <mterry> bratsche, no, those are already caught
[14:27] <bratsche> Oh you're right.
[14:27] <bratsche> Nevermind.
[14:27] <GunnarHj> pitti: Hi Martin,
[14:27] <GunnarHj> pitti: https://launchpad.net/bugs/693337
[14:27] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 693337 in language-selector "Menus for choosing language should have one option per available translation" [Undecided,In progress]
[14:27] <mterry> bratsche, though...  when holding down alt, the menus should appear with the mnemonic showing.
[14:27] <GunnarHj> pitti: please...
[14:27] <GunnarHj> pitti: Start with gdm if you are pressed for time.
[14:28] <mterry> seb128, sure.  tedg, hi!
[14:28] <bratsche> mterry: On my system the global menu is invisible until my mouse enters the top panel.
[14:28] <tedg> Good morning mterry
[14:28] <bratsche> Is that a bug, or is that a feature?
[14:28] <tedg> bratsche, Feature
[14:28] <mterry> bratsche, I know, I'm describing how I'd like it to be (how it is without global menus)
[14:29] <mterry> tedg, a missing feature, right?
[14:29] <tedg> mterry, ?
[14:29] <mterry> tedg, "when holding down alt, the menus should appear with the mnemonic showing."
[14:29] <bratsche> mterry: Right, but I'm saying.. if you hit alt, where do you show mnemonics if there's no menubar in your panel until your mouse enters it?
[14:29] <tedg> mterry, Oh, the holding down Alt?  That's missing, but hidden is a feature.
[14:29] <mterry> bratsche, I'm saying holding down alt should show the menu
[14:29] <tedg> bratsche, We've got a libindicator signal to tell the panel to show them.
[14:29] <bratsche> Oh, oh.. I get it.
[14:30] <bratsche> mterry: Anyway, I don't have time to test this patch right now, but the code looks good so I'll approve it.
[14:30] <mterry> tedg, but anyway, I wanted to check if you could squeeze in my various branches before release?  Let me get a list of outstanding ones
[14:30] <mterry> bratsche, OK  :)
[14:31] <mterry> tedg, the two toggle-state-is-int branches (whose merges got deleted somehow?  did you do that?) and the misc-fixes branch (which is part of your parser refactor branch now it seems)
[14:32] <seb128> tedg, hey
[14:32] <tedg> mterry, Yeah, I deleted them because I put it in the dbusmenu-gtk parser directly.  And the pending merges it libappindicator and appmenu-gtk remove all that code.
[14:32] <seb128> is that a known crasher?
[14:32] <seb128> #0  theme_changed_cb (theme=0x9fb5840, user_data=0xa03e820)
[14:32] <seb128>     at /build/buildd/libappindicator-<IP_ADDRESS>/./src/app-indicator.c:1279
[14:32] <tedg> mterry, I thought I send a mail about that, no?
[14:33] <tedg> mterry, Yeah, I just grabbed misc-fixes as well.  All that parser code is going in dbusmenu today.
[14:33] <tedg> mterry, So, I got all those, and they're already planned to go in :)
[14:34] <tedg> seb128, Hmm, no... is there more to the error?
[14:34] <mterry> tedg, no, I don't remember an email about it.  OK, I will drop my re-merge requests
[14:34] <seb128> tedg, http://paste.ubuntu.com/559019/
[14:35] <seb128> tedg, it's the policykit-agent crashing sometimes when using update-manager
[14:35] <mterry> tedg, well, I remember you talking about the new parser code, but not that it obsoleted toggle-state-is-int branches
[14:36] <tedg> mterry, Hmm, odd, they're in my sent folder but they don't seem to be on the merges. :-/  Anyway, here's the link to where I merged it in: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ted/dbusmenu/now-with-parsing/revision/208
[14:36] <tedg> seb128, Uhg, okay.
[14:36] <mterry> tedg, awesome, thanks
[14:37] <seb128> tedg, ok, let's not bother with that now then, deal with this week updates and I will file a bug on the updated stack if that's still an issue
[14:38] <tedg> seb128, Cool, thanks!
[14:42] <pitti> seb128: argh, doesn't fix it; but oh well, it at least still works, so I'll upload it anyway
[14:42] <seb128> pitti, ok
[14:46] <mvo> pitti: could you do a quick sanity check if http://paste.ubuntu.com/559028/ makes sense? invocing apt-xapian-index from s-c via dbus gave me introspect errors recently
[14:47] <pitti> mvo: oh, that's a system daemon?
[14:49] <pitti> mvo: checked, looks good
[14:50] <mvo> pitti: thanks! it supports working as a system daemon, but only on demand etc :)
[15:01] <pitti> chrisccoulson: xulrunner-1.9.2 will eventually be dropped from natty/main?
[15:01] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yes. the only thing pulling it in is swt-gtk, and i have a patch for that
[15:02] <chrisccoulson> but i can't test it, because all apps using it crash on start
[15:02] <chrisccoulson> but did already
[15:02] <chrisccoulson> so i'm not sure what to do :/
[15:02] <chrisccoulson> pitti - do you want to sponsor the upload anyway? :)
[15:03] <pitti> chrisccoulson: crash because of the new version, or they crash with the current one as well?
[15:03] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, they don't work with the current one either
[15:03] <chrisccoulson> pitti - bug 703618
[15:03] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 703618 in tuxguitar "[natty] UnsatisfiedLinkError: no swt-pi-gtk-3555 or swt-pi-gtk" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/703618
[15:03] <chrisccoulson> all the apps i'm trying to test have the same problem :)
[15:04] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I can upload it, sure
[15:04] <chrisccoulson> and i don't know enough about java to figure it out. i've checked all the obvious things already
[15:04] <chrisccoulson> thanks, i'll get that ready in a bit
[15:37] <mvo> pitti: just looking over the software-properties merge. pack_start() has no default arguments anymore? is there a plan to readd them in python - IMO it is a bit sad to loose them
[15:38] <pitti> mvo: that was discussed, and even committed to pygobject, but reverted afterwards
[15:38] <pitti> mvo: the reason is that we should stay very close to the official GTK API
[15:39] <mvo> fair enough also I can not say that I sympathize with that much. but *shrug* a case for something like qwidgets
[15:41] <pitti> mvo: there's of course a conflict between making them as comfortable as the old pygtk, and not breaking the existing GTK documentation
[16:20] <pitti> good night everyone!
[16:20] <didrocks> good night pitti
[16:23] <seb128> 'night pitti
[16:29] <scott-work> didrocks: do you have time to help me more with setting gnome-classic as the default xsession?
[16:29] <didrocks> scott-work: not really today, sorry :/
[16:29] <scott-work> didrocks: completely understandable and i understand
[16:29] <didrocks> scott-work: tomorrow?
[16:29] <scott-work> didrocks: tomorrow would be outstanding for me :)
[16:29] <scott-work> didrocks: approximately this same time?
[16:30] <didrocks> scott-work: sounds good :)
[16:30] <scott-work> didrocks: thanks again
[16:30] <didrocks> yw :)
[16:39] <bcurtiswx> unity is trying to be removed.. darn.. i want to try out the snap features!
[16:39]  * bcurtiswx gets impatient for cool updates he can't get :P
[16:41] <seb128> bcurtiswx, you use amd64?
[16:41] <bcurtiswx> seb128, yes sir
[16:41] <seb128> k
[16:41] <seb128> because the i386 update is already downloadable
[16:41] <seb128> it's likely amd64 is behind
[16:42]  * bcurtiswx kicks all amd64 builders
[16:43] <didrocks> yeah, I retried the build later for amd64
[16:43] <didrocks> bcurtiswx: you will need to unity --reset btw
[16:43] <bcurtiswx> OK
[16:43] <didrocks> bcurtiswx: did you get the new compiz already?
[16:44] <bcurtiswx> its waiting, but it tries to remove unity
[16:44] <bcurtiswx> didrocks, ^^
[16:44] <didrocks> bcurtiswx: yeah, because of the ABI breakage
[16:44] <bcurtiswx> Application Background Interface?
[16:44] <didrocks> the packaging is ensuring telling that for you instead of silently update and then, you can't remove :)
[16:45] <didrocks> *Binary*
[16:45] <bcurtiswx> i was close
[16:45] <seb128> cyphermox, hey, thanks for working on that libgdata rdepends issue
[16:46] <cyphermox> seb128, np. thanks for the reminder yesterday
[16:46] <seb128> yw
[16:46] <seb128> ok, time for another round of compiz testing
[16:46] <seb128> brb
[16:46] <cyphermox> I also fixed lunar-applet this morning
[16:47] <bcurtiswx> brb, gonna move to a more comfortable place, sharing a small couch both having laptops isn't good
[16:55] <bcurtiswx> i dont' need anything but main for natty right.. the rest come into play after final release
[17:01] <bcurtiswx> where'd didrocks go?
[17:01] <bcurtiswx> aww
[17:01] <bcurtiswx> well anyone who deals with unity, i did the unity --reset http://paste.ubuntu.com/559095/
[17:02] <seb128> bcurtiswx, what issue do you have?
[17:03] <bcurtiswx> there's no issue with unity, other than the two filesystems show on the side panel but at question mark icons
[17:03] <seb128> what is the log for then?
[17:04] <bcurtiswx> i guess just to be a help
[17:04] <bcurtiswx> sry?
[17:05] <seb128> well I just started IRC and you give a pastbin with a log and no context
[17:05] <seb128> so I was wondering if you need help with something
[17:05] <seb128> or what the pastbin is for there?
[17:05] <bcurtiswx> seb128, oh thanks! but i just gave that because there were some critical sections to the log, but my unity seems to be running OK
[17:05] <seb128> k
[17:05] <seb128> those are not new
[17:06] <seb128> don't worry about the warning for now
[17:06] <bcurtiswx> OK, I didn't know
[17:09] <seb128> bcurtiswx, but feel free to open bugs about those if you want
[18:17]  * mterry notices that gtk+3.0 also isn't in the desktop set
[18:17] <seb128> weird I though kenvandine ran into that one before
[18:18] <seb128> he might have got upload rights at that time though and didn't ask for it to be solved
[19:31] <nessita> tedg: ping
[19:38] <didrocks> time for dinner!
[19:38] <tedg> nessita, pong
[19:39] <didrocks> see you tomorrow :)
[19:39] <nessita> tedg: hi! I was wondering if you could help me with the following issue: I have the /usr/share/indicators/me/ubuntuone.menu file with a single line in it: the path to a desktop file, and that file gets properly installed. Any idea why Ubuntu One is not appearing in the me-menu?
[19:40] <tedg> nessita, Because I don't think that indicator-me reads those files...
[19:40] <tedg> nessita, kenvandine or dbarth__ might know.
[19:41] <dobey> tedg: it worked in maverick
[19:41] <dobey> tedg: because that's how you told me to do it :)
[19:42] <nessita> tedg: ok, I guess that changed on natty? like dobey said, it used to work on maverick
[19:42] <nessita> kenvandine: ping
[19:42] <kenvandine> looking
[19:44] <nessita> kenvandine: thanks!
[19:44] <kenvandine> nessita, it looks like it doesn't care about files in that directory at all
[19:44] <kenvandine> it is hard coded
[19:44] <kenvandine> if ubuntuone-preferences exists, it gets displayed
[19:44] <kenvandine> good timing for dbarth to drop off :)
[19:45] <nessita> kenvandine: how can we change that to be 'ubuntuone-control-panel-gtk'?
[19:45] <kenvandine> nessita, so that should be changed to the control panel right?
[19:45] <kenvandine> i can do that
[19:45] <kenvandine> but we should make that dynamic
[19:45] <nessita> kenvandine: I agree. Do you need a bug report?
[19:45] <kenvandine> nessita, i'll fix that asap
[19:45] <nessita> thanks!
[19:45] <kenvandine> nessita, please do
[19:45] <nessita> against... indicator-me?
[19:45] <kenvandine> yes
[19:50] <nessita> kenvandine: bug #708842
[19:50] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 708842 in indicator-me "Should load services list from /usr/share/indicators/me directory" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/708842
[20:12] <bcurtiswx> hmm, is it known that unity breaks with an alt+tab
[20:12] <bcurtiswx> or is it compliz
[20:13] <bcurtiswx> compiz**
[20:13] <bcurtiswx> can anyone confirm?
[20:14] <dobey> i think it's unity breaks compiz
[20:24] <bcurtiswx> dobey, but the same happens to you?
[20:24] <bcurtiswx> brb, restarting
[20:25] <dobey> i am not using unity or compiz now
[20:25] <dobey> but i recall hearing complaints about alt-tab with it before
[20:42] <seb128> re
[20:43] <seb128> nessita, kenvandine: having a way for any application to clutter the indicator menu doesn't seem a feature but a bug
[20:43] <seb128> bcurtiswx, no crash there
[20:44] <bcurtiswx> seb128, hmm IDK why it does that
[20:44] <seb128> could be a video driver issue
[20:44] <seb128> what card and driver do you use?
[20:44] <bcurtiswx> yeah, ATI has given me troubles
[20:44] <seb128> did you do xorg updates?
[20:44] <bcurtiswx> it uses the open source right now
[20:44] <bcurtiswx> seb128, yes
[20:44] <nessita> seb128: having the list hardcoded looks like a bug to me, we can't even rename the executable name. I agree that we should review packages branches that add files to the directory where entries will be read from
[20:45] <seb128> nessita, well it's not only packages, it means anyone can install craps in the directory
[20:45] <seb128> nessita, didn't we discuss dropping the ubuntuone item from the indicator menu previous cycle?
[20:46] <seb128> that seems the wrong place to add launchers
[20:46] <nessita> seb128: I don't think so, or at least I was not in that discussion. Nevertheless, U1 is in the me menu but pointing to the wrong app (was pointing to u1-preferences)
[20:47] <seb128> well I think we dropped the entry last cycle and you guys complained so we did put it back ;-)
[20:47] <nessita> seb128: well, I guess we should be moving it to the messaging menu since we will be using it heavily to notify about shares, folders, etc
[20:47] <seb128> nessita, yeah that's a bug and orthogonal from the discussion about having launchers there
[20:47] <nessita> right
[20:48] <kenvandine> seb128, i agree... but hardcoding is still kind of ugly
[20:48] <seb128> not sure why "open the configuration dialog for something" should be listed in there
[20:48] <dobey> seb128: last cycle i was told to put the .menu file in the directory to make it work.
[20:48] <seb128> usually you want to set up your accounts once
[20:49] <seb128> not to have those listed in your indicator on daily use
[20:49] <dobey> seb128: it shouldn't in narwhal
[20:49] <seb128> dobey, shouldn't what?
[20:49] <dobey> be in the me menu
[20:49] <seb128> ok, so what is the issue? ;-)
[20:49] <seb128> should be bother fixing the code or just dropping it?
[20:50] <dobey> both
[20:50] <seb128> lol
[20:50] <seb128> why spending time fixing code to drop it?
[20:50] <dobey> it shouldn't hardcode external entries. not sure what all external things would need to be there
[20:51] <nessita> seb128: we have an opened bug to have U1 discoverable on natty. On classic desktop we wanted to use the same thing as we have right now (the me menu). But since alecu is working on showing messages for U1, I think is enough to have the entry on the messaging menu only
[20:51] <dobey> having it in the me menu always seemed wrong to me anyway
[20:52] <seb128> nessita, ok, did you talk to ted or mpt about that?
[20:52] <nessita> seb128: about what exaxctly?
[20:52] <seb128> nessita, not sure but I think adding system messages to the messaging menu was discussed in the past and not welcome
[20:53] <seb128> the messaging menus is made for user messages, not for collecting infos about services, etc
[20:53] <dobey> seb128: it's not system messages. it's "5 people shared things to you" messages
[20:53] <dobey> we discussed that in dallas
[20:53] <nessita> seb128: well, U1 is not system messages, but user oriented messages. We did talk with neil about this
[20:53] <seb128> ok
[20:53] <seb128> I was just curious
[20:53] <nessita> seb128: is ok, thanks for pointingt that out!
[20:53] <seb128> some people suggested in the past to have things like "updates available" listed there
[20:54] <seb128> which turned out was not really something we want
[20:54] <dobey> nah, that makes no sense
[20:54] <dobey> especially for u1 since we just automatically 'update' files anyway
[21:25] <mterry> tremolux, love the ratings & reviews work  :)  It seems like I have to write a text review, can't just rate an app?
[21:33] <tremolux> mterry: yep, you gotta write something (make it witty)
[21:48] <bcurtiswx> is there a special package that you all use for the desktop team as far as editing projects?  Maybe one thats not command line only ?
[21:49] <seb128> bcurtiswx, editing what?
[21:51] <bcurtiswx> packages, like if i go edit lp:~ubuntu-desktop/empathy
[21:51] <bcurtiswx> or is command line the most preferred and quickest?
[21:52] <seb128> bcurtiswx, not sure to understand the question, I usually use gedit to edit files
[21:52] <seb128> ie a graphical editor, not the command line
[21:52] <bcurtiswx> yeah, maybe something that makes it more integrated with nautilus
[21:53] <bcurtiswx> like a package is a folder in nautilus and built in push/pull/branching
[21:58] <bcurtiswx> hmm IIRC jorge made something or maybe someone else.. that did something like that
[21:59] <jcastro> Maybe you're thinking of doctormo?
[21:59] <dobey> are you talking about the doctormo thing?
[21:59] <dobey> heh
[21:59] <jcastro> https://launchpad.net/groundcontrol
[22:01] <bcurtiswx> jcastro, yes.. thats it
[22:01]  * bcurtiswx apologises to doctormo
[22:03] <bcurtiswx> thanks jcastro
[22:17] <RenatoSilva> is there any way to create a ubuntu installation cd which is already up-to-date? it's for a dial-up-only pc
[22:23] <rickspencer3> hey Renato, what specifically are you trying to do?
[22:23] <rickspencer3> create one on the web, and download it updated?
[22:23] <rickspencer3> or have local updates and changes, and make an ISO out of that?
[22:24] <RenatoSilva> I want to install ubuntu on a dial-up-only PC
[22:25] <RenatoSilva> I would like to burn an up-to-date installation CD
[22:25] <RenatoSilva> so that I don't need to download hundreds of MB
[22:25] <RenatoSilva> afaik the iso from the website is not up-to-date
[22:26] <RenatoSilva> at all
[22:26] <rickspencer3> RenatoSilva, there is a "minimal install" image that ight help you
[22:26] <rickspencer3> but the website only has daily images for the development release
[22:26] <rickspencer3> and you have to download the whole 700 Megs
[22:27] <RenatoSilva> I can download in some place, but can't bring the pc to that place
[22:28] <RenatoSilva> it's like windows service packs, once in a while MS deliver them together in the windows installation
[22:28] <RenatoSilva> it would be nice if the ubuntu cds had the same pratice, but of course on a weekly or monthly basis
[22:28] <rickspencer3> RenatoSilva, well, there are updates to the LTS
[22:29] <rickspencer3> so in a few weeks, you can get 10.04.2
[22:29] <rickspencer3> which will be up to date
[22:30] <RenatoSilva> is there any special, particular reason to regular releases not having that too?
[22:30] <rickspencer3> RenatoSilva, that's a deeper question
[22:30] <RenatoSilva> About later updates after ubuntu is installed in the dial-up pc, is AptOnCD still the way to go?
[22:30] <rickspencer3> I think that would better brought up on the @ubuntu-devel list if you want to change that kind of thing
[22:32] <RenatoSilva> it's been quite some time after I used aptoncd, so I wonder if there isn't a better solution now
[22:33] <RenatoSilva> it seems I'll need it again, I'll have to install a raw 10.10 then apply everything from there with aptoncd
[22:34] <RenatoSilva> is there any way to download ubuntu updates in windows, for burning a cd-based apt repo?
[22:41] <RenatoSilva> thanks anyway
[23:28] <bigballz> Hello??
[23:29] <rickspencer3> nice nick bigballz
[23:29] <rickspencer3> ;)
[23:29] <bigballz> Yeah
[23:29] <rickspencer3> 'sup?
[23:29] <bigballz> It was onlt for this.
[23:29] <bigballz> I need help with the ubuntu desktop version
[23:30] <rickspencer3> bigballz, well, this channel is not the support channel
[23:30] <bigballz> SHIT\
[23:30] <bigballz> Then what is it?
[23:30] <rickspencer3> it's for folks who are developers building the destkop version
[23:30] <rickspencer3> just #ubuntu
[23:30] <rickspencer3> is for support
[23:30] <bigballz> Oh fuck...
[23:30] <bigballz> I'm an r-tard
[23:30] <rickspencer3> you're welcome to hang out, though
[23:30] <rickspencer3> no worries
[23:30] <bigballz> I'm getting my feet wet in the world of linux and ubuntu
[23:31] <rickspencer3> welcome!
[23:31] <rickspencer3> please keep in mind that we have a code of conduct:
[23:31] <rickspencer3> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
[23:31] <bigballz> Oh yes. The language. My apologies.
[23:31] <rickspencer3> np
[23:31] <rickspencer3> just letting you know
[23:32] <rickspencer3> you may want to revisit your nick as well
[23:32] <bigballz> UGH. OK. How can I change it?
[23:32] <rickspencer3> type: /nick my_new_nick
[23:32] <bigballz> in here or where?
[23:32] <bigballz> Freenode?
[23:32] <rickspencer3> where "my_new_nick" is whatever you want to be
[23:33] <rickspencer3> yeah, if you use a "/" then irc knows you are sending a command
[23:33] <bigballz> Ah. See? I'm NOT a computer nerd.
[23:33] <rickspencer3> so maybe change your nick and then hop into #ubuntu, I'll bet you get some good support there
[23:33] <Spitfire77> Changed my name.
[23:33] <Spitfire77> :3
[23:34] <rickspencer3> :)
[23:34] <Spitfire77> OK.
[23:34] <Spitfire77> So, you guys develop Ubuntu here?
[23:34] <rickspencer3> not me
[23:35] <rickspencer3> I just sit around with my pointy hair asking when everything is going to be done
[23:35] <Spitfire77> Oh.
[23:35] <rickspencer3> but everyone else is an actual engineer
[23:35] <Spitfire77> I see your logic.
[23:35] <Spitfire77> Dang. That's pretty cool. :D
[23:35] <rickspencer3> if you want to get involved with helping with the desktop, this is the channel for you
[23:35] <rickspencer3> like you could start by triaging bugs, for example
[23:36] <rickspencer3> or testing specific programs you care about and helping the developers get the information they need to fix the bugs
[23:42] <chrisccoulson> oh, ratings and reviews aren't anonymous?


[12:07] <Kamion> Riddell: Kubuntu install CDs up
[12:12] <Riddell> Kamion: thanks
[12:13] <Kamion> http://king.buildd/%7Ebuildd/livecd/kubuntu/current/livecd.kubuntu.cloop:
[12:13] <Kamion> 23:11:21 ERROR 403: Forbidden.
[12:13] <Kamion> meh
[12:13] <Kamion> lamont: please fix? all buildds I think
[12:14] <Kamion> lamont: ah, the problem is that the cloop didn't build, due to this, which is still your bug :-)
[12:14] <Kamion> E: Couldn't find package kubuntu-base
[12:15] <Kamion> lamont: both Kubuntu and Edubuntu should use ubuntu-base
[12:15] <Kamion> infinity: or you, if you're around?
[12:20] <lamont> Kamion: hrm...
[12:20] <lamont> Kamion: while I'm doing that - do you know how to run javascript crap in a manner that gets me error messages when I have syntax errors?
[12:21] <mdz> lamont: tools->javascript console in firefox
[12:21] <lamont> woot
[12:21] <lamont> Kamion: ISTR kubuntu-base got created in breezy, yes?
[12:21] <neuralis> lamont, for more serious stuff, download venkman
[12:21] <neuralis> lamont, full javascript debugger in xul.
[12:22] <xhaker> anyone holding packages for firefox1.5 rc's somewhere?
[12:23] <lamont> sadly, that doesn't show me the errors in my proxy.pac file...
[12:25] <Kamion> lamont: AFAIK there was never a kubuntu-base
[12:25] <Kamion> lamont: for good reason - it isn't possible to make netboot installs work properly if Kubuntu's or Edubuntu's base system is ever at variance from Ubuntu's
[12:26] <Kamion> at least not at present
[12:26] <lamont>             LIST="$LIST ubuntu-base ubuntu-desktop ubuntu-live"
[12:26] <lamont>             LIST="$LIST ubuntu-base kubuntu-desktop kubuntu-live"
[12:26] <lamont>             LIST="$LIST ubuntu-base edubuntu-desktop edubuntu-live"
[12:26] <Kamion> great, that's correct
[12:26] <lamont> you are go for launching your builds
[12:26] <Kamion> launched
[12:26] <Kamion> thanks for the quick fix
[12:26] <lamont> now tell me how to find proxy.pac syntax errors. :-)
[12:27] <Kamion> on that, I'm afraid, I am clueless :(
[12:27] <lamont> well, I still need to go really fix the source, etc.
[12:27] <lamont> Kamion: ditto
[12:28] <lamont> neuralis: E: Couldn't find package venkman
[12:28] <Kamion> mozilla-venkman |   0.9.85-3 | dapper/universe | all
[12:28] <Kamion> (back to hoary/universe)
[12:28] <neuralis> lamont, look harder :P
[12:28] <lamont> danke
[12:30] <lamont> neuralis: and this lets me examine the .pac file how?
[12:31] <neuralis> lamont, you didn't specify proxy.pac as part of your problem until later. venkman lets you "run javascript crap in a manner that" gives you full debug control.
[12:31] <lamont> ok.
[12:31] <lamont> how does it let me do that?
[12:32] <lamont> Kamion: fix committed, it'll be in 0.25 for real.
[12:33] <neuralis> after starting it up, it will show javascript loaded across all firefox windows, and allow you to place breakpoints or enable full-tracing and such. i'm not sure it'll help with proxy.pac.
[12:36] <Riddell> elmo: please sync smb4k from debian, ok to override ubuntu changes
[12:38] <elmo> Riddell: queued
[12:38] <Kamion> mdz: I reckon the Flight 1 announcement should go to ubuntu-devel-announce these days. Should it go to ubuntu-users too?
[12:39] <lamont> neuralis: how do I print something in javascript?
[12:39] <neuralis> there's nowhere to print to, generally. alert('message') will do a pop-up.
[12:40] <mdz> Kamion: sure
[12:40] <mdz> Kamion: perhaps with a note to subscribe to -devel-announce for the future
[12:41] <Kamion> good plan
[12:45] <lamont> grumble.  myIpAddress() returned <IP_ADDRESS>
[12:46] <Kamion> amd64/server pass
[12:48] <lamont> The autoconfig file can be output by a CGI script. This is useful e.g. when making the autoconfig file act differently based on the client IP address (the REMOTE_ADDR environment variable in CGI).
[12:48] <lamont> but I don't _WANT_ to write CGI
[01:13] <Kamion> Riddell: just a procedural note re http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2005-November/000554.html - it's not called flight-1 until it's released
[01:16] <Kamion> amd64/install pass
[01:17] <Riddell> Kamion: good point, noted
[01:20] <Kamion> Riddell: things are looking good on the Ubuntu side; I've written the release announcement, although I probably won't actually do the release until tomorrow morning now. If you've got basic testing done on all the CDs by then, let me know and I'll release Kubuntu Flight 1 along with it; otherwise I can do it shortly afterwards.
[01:20] <Kamion> you don't have to test quite as thoroughly as for preview/RC/final - just basic validation that the image can perform an install or boot to a live session as appropriate will be fine
[01:22] <Kamion> I'm afraid my release announcement errs on the duck side of the debate contrary to my personal preference, but only because I found the perfect quote ;)
[01:23] <Riddell> Kamion: I don't have anyone to test the ppc disk but otherwise they should all be tested by morning
[01:23] <ogra> Riddell, i can test ppc live
[01:23] <Kamion> ok, I'll download ppc install and see if I can give it a go tomorrow morning
[01:23] <Kamion> thanks ogra
[01:24] <Riddell> ooh, live CDs are up
[01:24] <Riddell> ogra: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/kubuntu/daily-live/20051119/  thanks
[01:24] <ogra> i'll try rsyncing a ubuntu live :)
[01:24] <Kamion> ah, yes
[01:25] <Kamion> ogra: that will help a bit, probably, but not a lot
[01:25] <ogra> a bit is fine ...
[01:25] <ogra> at least more than nothing ;)
[01:28] <ogra> meh
[01:28] <ogra> dapper-live-powerpc.OVERSIZED
[01:28] <ogra> Riddell, ^^ drop some languages :)
[01:28] <Kamion> says the man whose project has a special exception in cdimage code to let it be larger ...
[01:28] <ogra> lol
[01:29] <Kamion> kubuntu/powerpc/live is only 3MB over; no great concern for now
[01:45] <ajmitch> ogra: what, drop .de?
[01:46] <ogra> heh... i'm fine with .en :)
[01:46] <ajmitch> noone uses it :)
[01:46] <Kamion> Kubuntu ships a *lot* of languages; dropping a couple would not be a problem, and we wouldn't have to go anywhere near the most popular ones
[01:46] <Kamion> this sort of optimisation may be best done later though
[01:46] <Kamion> well, s/optimisation/tweaking/
[01:48] <Kamion>  * Languages: af am as az be bg br bs ca cs cy da el eo et eu fa fi ga gl gu he hr hu ia id
[01:48] <Kamion>  ^-- list of languages hipped on kubuntu/powerpc/install outside the most popular dozen
[01:49] <Kamion> er, "shipped"
[01:49] <mpt> that should cut down on plenty of space :-)
[01:50] <Kamion> sounds like a good way to ship only one language ;)
[01:50] <ogra> if they are not complete, they might not take much space :)
[01:50] <Kamion> now is a bad time to try to execute that metric, though
[01:50] <Kamion> and, as ogra says, incomplete ones are cheap
[01:50] <mpt> if Microsoft or Apple shipped with incomplete translations, they'd get tomatoes thrown at them, wouldn't they?
[01:50] <ogra> nope
[01:51] <ogra> Apple probably ...
[01:52] <Kamion> it depends how you define "complete". our archive contains a hell of a lot more software than either Microsoft or Apple ship; even if you go by what we ship, we have an awful lot of translation domains
[01:53] <Kamion> it's hard to compare because Microsoft and Apple don't have the same kind of huge archive of stuff you can grab after the install
[01:53] <mpt> and we don't measure CD-completeness separately?
[01:53] <Kamion> we don't measure it at all yet
[01:54] <mpt> Rosetta measures completeness at all
[01:54] <Kamion> ok, I didn't know how good its measurements were, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't measure CD-completeness
[01:55] <Kamion> in any case I can tell you for free that only one language other than English was even at 100% in the breezy installer
[01:55] <ogra> french ?
[01:55] <Kamion> many were very close, but IIRC only French actually made it
[01:55] <mpt> :-(
[01:56] <mpt> Will Dapper's earlier feature freeze mean more time for translation?
[01:56] <Kamion> hahahahahaha
[01:56] <Kamion> I wish
[01:56] <ogra> *g*
[01:56] <Kamion> in any case I don't think more time would have helped; we need better advertisement of what order one should translate things in
[01:57] <Kamion> I've been discussing installer translations with Carlos
[01:57] <Kamion> we have a plan which should help
[01:57] <Kamion> anyway, bed :)
[01:57] <ajmitch> a lot of random stuff in universe got translated?
[01:57] <ajmitch> night Kamion
[01:57] <mpt> we have a bug reported on that
[01:57] <ogra> night Kamion
[01:57] <mpt> show which stuff is important first
[01:57] <mpt> g'night Kamion
[01:58] <mpt> https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/20
[03:04] <sistpoty> elmo: please sync nvclock from unstable, ok to override ubuntu changes
[03:50] <sistpoty> elmo: please sync rafkill from unstable, ok to override ubuntu changes
[04:02] <Kinnison> g/night all
[04:03] <powerj> Hello fellows!
[04:03] <powerj> Anyone around.
[04:03] <powerj> ??
[04:04] <powerj> Anyone awake?
[04:09] <crimsun> elmo: please sync vile and tse3 from Sid, overriding Ubuntu changes, thanks
[04:09] <elmo> is flight1 out yet?
[04:09] <ogra> elmo, its done, but not out yet
[04:09] <powerj> I woud like some gentoo devs opinions about some new software i wrote.. Anyone around?
[04:09] <ogra> Kamion wanted to announce it tomorrow morning
[04:10] <elmo> powerj: wrong channel
[04:10] <zul> very wrong channel
[04:10] <powerj> elmo, is it not here you find the ubuntu devel staff?
[04:11] <elmo> crimsun: queued
[04:11] <crimsun> elmo: thank you.
[04:11] <crimsun> powerj: you mistyped "gentoo"
[04:12] <powerj> Oh, sorry i was thinking ubuntu..
[04:13] <powerj> I am writing an replacement for sysvinit, that boots the system in parraler, and heavy reduces boot time.
[04:13] <powerj> Maby you devs, can tell me a feature list you want to have in a sutch system.
[04:13] <powerj> Things that i missed.
[04:14] <powerj> Have a look: http://initng.thinktux.net/
[04:15] <crimsun> issue has been raised in the channel previously and on the mailing lists
[04:16] <powerj> Ok?
[04:16] <crimsun> just letting you know it has been raised. Timeframe is not within Dapper.
[04:19] <powerj> crimsun, do you have any url to the debate on the mailinglist, or an irc log?
[04:20] <crimsun> powerj: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/  and lists.ubuntu.com
[04:21] <crimsun> sorry I don't have them handy
[04:23] <mpt> powerj, http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-May/thread.html#7410 is one
[04:27] <powerj> mpt, thanks, but these mails are back from may, anything fresh?
[04:28] <mpt> powerj, see http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-November/013072.html w.r.t. Dapper
[04:28] <powerj> Are there any intrest what you know, to include an alternative init system in ubuntu?
[04:33] <powerj> People from linspire distro, walked by my #initng and sad that they are working for a complete switch to #initng, actually i would like to see it if even optionally in ubuntu sience its my default distro.
[04:36] <powerj> That i calually want to say here is that i woud like some feedback, and possibly some directions of what shud be done to my project, towars the integration in ubuntu.
[04:37] <mpt> powerj, I am in no way an expert on the subject, but from what I have read, the plan is to work on simple improvements to the current system for 6.04 (and there's substantial room for improvement in the current system), then do something less hackish than init-ng for Dapper+n, where n is approximately 1.
[04:39] <mpt> see for example http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-November/013021.html
[04:39] <powerj> less hackish than init-ng?
[04:43] <mpt> and http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-November/013053.html
[04:43] <mpt> but I have my own work to do now, so excuse me :-)
[04:44] <powerj> mpt, actually initng is way more advanched than Solaris SMF, and way more extensionable.
[04:44] <powerj> mpt, okay thank you for your time.
[04:44] <mpt> If you want to discuss that, the best person to discuss it with would be the Scott James Remnant who wrote that message, aka Keybuk in IRC
[04:45] <mpt> he's the one doing a lot of the work to reduce startup time for Ubuntu at the moment.
[04:46] <Riddell> ogra: did you test the ppc CD?
[04:46] <ogra> Riddell, just finished
[04:47] <ogra> Riddell, i had only one problem ... there was KDE on my ubuntu ;)
[04:47] <ogra> Riddell, its fine :)
[04:47] <spacey> :o
[04:48] <spacey> whole night messing around with migrating ADS to Samba stuff, i look and feel like a zombie now
[04:48] <spacey> good night
[04:48] <ogra> night spacey
[04:48] <ajmitch> night spacey :)
[04:48] <ogra> and night world, i'm off as well ...
[04:49] <ajmitch> see you later
[04:49] <powerj> mpt, thank you, i drop him a mail.
[04:51] <Riddell> ogra: great, thanks
[04:51] <Riddell> ogra: how come you can't do an install?
[04:52] <Riddell> Kamion: kubuntu x86 install/live, amd64 install/live and ppc live all work
[05:07] <Erlang> Can anyone help my with my Ubuntu/Debian dilemma?
[05:07] <magnon> the answer will always be ubuntu
[05:09] <Erlang> I can answer the dilemma myself at the end, but I'm looking for a killer p.o.v. somewhere.
[05:34] <magnon> Erlang: well, you could start by asking a bit more specific
[05:41] <Erlang> magnon: I could... I will be updating my system to AMD64 from 32 bit soon and I need to decide between
[05:42] <Erlang> Ubuntu and Debian
[05:42] <Erlang> I'm a wannabe Debian developer...
[05:54] <mpt> desrt, ping
[06:00] <Erlang> well, right now I'd go for Ubuntu.  If I think of a reason I could change my mind, I'll come back here.  It'll be more productive that way.
[06:00] <mpt> Erlang, no-one can deny the power of the brown
[06:01] <Erlang> the brown?
[06:02] <mpt> the brown!
[06:02] <Erlang> hmmm
[06:03] <Erlang> whats ... that?
[06:04] <ajmitch> a nice earthy colour
[06:05] <Erlang> o_O
[07:31] <Aegir`> Flaming mother of mercy. My filesystem just exploded... Well, thats one dapper box thats bit the dust. Time to reformat...
[09:06] <rob1> what is the default music app on a fresh install? rhythmbox/totem?
[09:08] <sabdfl> rob1: rhythmbox
[09:08] <rob1> thanks sabdfl
[10:58] <zyga> morning
[11:00] <sivang> morning all
[11:30] <Kamion> powerpc/install fail due to media problems; my current inclination is to say "sod it", Kubuntu powerpc/install has got further
[11:31] <zyga> Kamion: is there any working hfs+ repartitioner?
[11:31] <zyga> (partition/fs resizer)
[11:32] <Kamion> zyga: parted in dapper should do it; not parted in breezy
[11:32] <zyga> Kamion: with user interface in the installer?
[11:33] <zyga> (or the livecd)
[11:33] <Kamion> try why not try it?
[11:33] <Kamion> (excuse weirdness, slow link)
[11:33] <zyga> breezy does not have any user interface for it and I'm not feeling like loosing my data again
[11:33] <Kamion> also breezy's parted can resize hfs+ provided that you disable journalling
[11:33] <Kamion> breezy sure does have user interface for it
[11:34] <zyga> hmm
[11:34] <Kamion> press enter on the Size: field in the detailed page for the partition
[11:34] <zyga> is that interface available in the debian installer?
[11:34] <Kamion> YES
[11:34] <zyga> hmm
[11:34] <Kamion> (er, sorry, caps lock)
[11:34] <zyga> can the journal be disabled after installation?
[11:35] <Kamion> of Mac OS? yes, google for instructions
[11:35] <zyga> right
[11:35] <Kamion> there are several ways to do it, both command-line and graphical
[11:35] <zyga> Kamion: if I find such instructions they could be patched as an info node into the installer, do you agree?
[11:35] <zyga> (mornin pitti)
[11:35] <pitti> Good morning
[11:35] <Kamion> no, I do not agree
[11:35] <Kamion> they could go in the installation manual, but they don't belong in the installer itself
[11:36] <zyga> at least a note that they are in the manual (and how to find the manual)
[11:36] <Kamion> no, only in the manual
[11:36] <zyga> hmm
[11:36] <zyga> I never knew about the manual really and I think that's something users might struggle with
[11:37] <Kamion> I'm not going to burden our translators with having to translate a million links to the manual from lots of places
[11:38] <Kamion> it's sufficient to point to the manual up-front at the very start, in the boot screens (we should add that)
[11:38] <zyga> I see, but if the user does not know how to sucessfuly resize their hfs+ volume he might decide not to install, just as I did. A single sentence that points in the right direction (Like: To find out how to resize your hfs+ volume, take a look at the manual on the CD) could help a lot
[11:38] <xxenon> is anyone testing 2.6.15 in dapper ?
[11:38] <zyga> I agree
[11:39] <Kamion> zyga: that will no longer be necessary in dapper *anyway*
[11:39] <zyga> oh, why? :-)
[11:39] <Kamion> because parted in dapper works even if you leave journalling enabled, as I implied above
[11:39] <Kamion> or at least so I am told
[11:40] <zyga> ah, then this is a no-issue :-)
[11:40] <zyga> thanks for the information
[11:40] <Kamion> indeed
[11:40] <Kamion> meh, kubuntu powerpc/install gets further but still dies due to media problems
[11:41] <Kamion> well, I have no reason to believe it will break and we've tested most of the individual pieces, so I'll just release it
[11:44] <Kamion> zyga: dapper's parted should also be able to handle HFSX (new variant of HFS+ used in very new versions of Mac OS X)
[11:44] <Kamion> breezy's couldn't
[11:44] <zyga> Kamion: hmm, 10.4.3?
[11:46] <Kamion> http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/tn1150.html says it was introduced in 10.3; may not be the default, I don't know
[11:46] <zyga> checking
[11:48] <Kamion> 03:44 < powerj> mpt, actually initng is way more advanched than Solaris SMF, and way more extensionable.
[11:48] <Kamion> 03:44 < powerj> mpt, actually initng is way more advanched than Solaris SMF, and way more extensionable.
[11:49] <Kamion> (d'oh, sorry)
[11:50] <zyga> Kamion: hfsx is a minor modification, it allows for (bah) case-sensitive file names
[11:51] <Kamion> yes (I don't really care about the details), but it still requires explicit support in parted because it's a new filesystem type
[11:51] <zyga> (welcome to the 1970 ;-)
[11:51] <Kamion> I also have read the technote I pointed you to ;)
[12:01] <Keybuk> ooh
[12:01] <Keybuk> when did lists.uc get prettyfied?
[12:01] <zyga> Keybuk: hi
[12:02] <Keybuk> that was a "hi, I was looking for you, and you're in trouble" kind of hi, wasn't it?
[12:02] <zyga> :>
[12:02] <zyga> no not really :)
[12:02] <Keybuk> oh, phew
[12:02] <zyga> I had a few questions but they are not important anymore I guess
[12:03] <Keybuk> I'm all ears
[12:03] <Keybuk> except for the bits of me that aren't
[12:03] <Keybuk> because I'm not a grasshopper
[12:03] <Keybuk> ask away
[12:03] <zyga> It was about non-contiguous malloc, one that doensn't suffer from allocation spikes
[12:04] <zyga> I had a discussion with seb the other day
[12:05] <zyga> if you know of any malloc that's better than current one I'm all ears myself :)
[12:06] <Keybuk> there's about as many malloc implementations as there are nih libcs
[12:06] <Keybuk> all equally bad at most things :)
[12:06] <Kamion> a totally new malloc implementation sounds about as inappropriate for dapper (a long-term supported release) as it's possible to get
[12:07] <zyga> it's not about dapper at all
[12:07] <zyga> damn I confuse you two
[12:07] <Keybuk> #define malloc mmap
[12:07] <Keybuk> easy
[12:07] <zyga>  hehe
[12:07] <zyga> almost ;]
[12:08] <Keybuk> Kamion's the Lord of the Dance, and I'm the Queen of the Dancefloor
[12:08] <zyga> oh, where's buffy then?
[12:08] <Kamion> that's elmo
[12:08] <zyga> lol
[12:10] <zyga> Keybuk: http://www.suxx.pl/~zyga/malloc-test/ if you know of anything that can survive this please let me know :)
[12:11] <Kamion> malloc is about the common case as well as stress-tests
[12:11] <zyga> ?
[12:11] <zyga> ah
[12:11] <zyga> sorry I omitted one word and it didn't make sense
[12:11] <Keybuk> you can also tune malloc for your process too
[12:11] <Keybuk> there's a bunch of random options to let you rely less on sbrk, and more on mmap, etc.
[12:12] <Kamion> programs that really run into pathological behaviour of malloc often use their own allocators; it's not like there aren't loads around :)
[12:12] <Kamion> like the apr pools implementation, talloc, etc.
[12:12] <neuralis> zyga, have you looked at google's TC Malloc?
[12:12] <zyga> yes there are a multiudue of them
[12:12] <zyga> neuralis: no :> but it already sounds interesting
[12:12] <neuralis> zyga, goog-perftools.sf.net
[12:12] <neuralis> zyga, blazing fast, plays well with stl and threads
[12:13] <zyga> in-app allocators are basically because standard allocators are more less bad :/
[12:14] <Kamion> standard allocators are generally trying to be simple, so that they can be a common denominator; once you start being clever you often end up de-optimising for cases you didn't think of
[12:14] <Keybuk> malloc works sufficiently well for the most part
[12:15] <Keybuk> the glibc one is a little more intelligent than just "sbrk to get more space"
[12:15] <zyga> right but the really messy feature of the standard doug lea's malloc is the dependance on sbrk
[12:15] <zyga> it can use mmap but as far as the source says, it's not that smart
[12:16] <zyga> (especially when it comes to free)
[12:16] <Keybuk> free is over-rated :)
[12:16] <zyga> yeah ;]
[12:16] <Keybuk> Linux knows better than to believe an app about how much memory it wants
[12:16] <Keybuk> and it all gets freed when the app closes anyway
[12:16] <zyga> ?
[12:17] <zyga> what about apps that keep runing and running
[12:17] <Kamion> for example I've worked on programs that really heavily use mmap, right up to the limits of the virtual address space; an mmap-based malloc would de-optimise for that
[12:17] <zyga> like browsers and damn text editors in most ofices
[12:17] <Keybuk> the big pages of unused memory won't be mapped
[12:17] <Keybuk> and they won't page fault because they're not being used
[12:17] <zyga> ?
[12:17] <Keybuk> so the app "thinks" it has that memory, when the kernel got rid of it ages ago
[12:17] <jamesh> Kamion: good reason to switch to 64-bit then :)
[12:17] <zyga> big pages of previously used memory keep being mapped
[12:18] <Keybuk> "big pages" ?!
[12:18] <zyga> s/big pages/lots of pages/
[12:18] <Keybuk> I of course meant lots of
[12:18] <Keybuk> yeah I was correcting myself there
[12:18] <zyga> :-)
[12:18] <Kamion> jamesh: in some cases that was a win, yes (subject to some other considerations), but it was not always quite so simple, especially five years ago
[12:18] <jamesh> nod.
[12:18] <Keybuk> why would they keep being mapped if they weren't used?
[12:18] <zyga> Keybuck: they were used before, that's why they were mapped
[12:19] <Kamion> jamesh: frex on the early Opterons it made almost no difference (curiously enough)
[12:19] <zyga> but after they were freed in the program they are still mapped
[12:19] <Kamion> I think that's been sorted out since though
[12:19] <Keybuk> right, but Linux gets bored quite easily and unmaps them from the real memory if they're not actually used
[12:19] <zyga> and puts them to swap
[12:19] <Keybuk> so they appear in the process map, but don't actually take up real memory
[12:19] <zyga> that's bad IMHO
[12:19] <zyga> it cannot just discard them, linux doesn't know they are 'free' it just swaps them away, right?
[12:20] <Keybuk> right
[12:20] <zyga> exactly :/
[12:20] <zyga> why would an mmap based allocator be bad then?
[12:20] <Keybuk> the cost-per-map is reasonably high, you wouldn't want a new map per 16 byte struct
[12:21] <zyga> you cannot map such small regions anyway
[12:21] <zyga> but a mmap per 1MB makes more sense
[12:21] <zyga> when such chunk gets free it can be really returned
[12:21] <Keybuk> 1MB is rather arbitrary
[12:21] <zyga> generally a multi-heap design, in the allocator
[12:22] <zyga> it was an example
[12:22] <Keybuk> mapping anything other than multiples of 4096 bytes is silly ;)
[12:22] <zyga> (I was really thinking about mapping 4MB jumbo pages)
[12:22] <Keybuk> right, 4MB is a reasonably sensible (and common) size
[12:22] <Keybuk> as is 8MB (default stack, iirc)
[12:23] <zyga> each jumbo page could be freed (even parts of it could be unmaped if necessary)
[12:23] <Keybuk> ah, but then you have the fun thing
[12:23] <Keybuk> allocating space on the page according to where it's likely to be /freed/
[12:24] <zyga> (BTW: this can go away from #u-d if that's not appropriate here)
[12:24] <Keybuk> as you'd want to deliberately optimise for clearing pages at once
[12:24] <zyga> yesh :)
[12:24] <zyga> run-time data gathering could help
[12:24] <Keybuk> you wouldn't want to front-fill pages, you'd want to know in advance the memory usage pattern of the program so that data that is commonly freed together is put on the same page
[12:24] <zyga> or an enchanced malloc api like MALLOC_LONG_LIVED flag
[12:24] <Keybuk> there are compiler thingies that deal with that
[12:25] <zyga> oh?
[12:25] <zyga> I heard about the sun compiler, that it can optimize away some malloc calls
[12:25] <zyga> (but it was only for loops and trivial cases)
[12:26] <zyga> a generic approach, one that could calculate the probability of long-livedness of an object would be better
[12:26] <zyga> it could minimize living objects in mostly empty pages
[12:26] <zyga> (or simply chunk all long-lived objects together)
[12:27] <Keybuk> there are many many papers and experiments into it
[12:27] <Keybuk> see Google
[12:27] <zyga> believe me I did
[12:27] <zyga> I tried citeseer too
[12:27] <zyga> maybe I spell badly
[12:27] <zyga> ..
[12:28] <Keybuk> the "generic" approach is often to use multiple memory pools
[12:29] <Keybuk> ie. have a "small shit" pool for fixed-sized blocks that you just reuse over and over
[12:29] <zyga> right :-)
[12:29] <Keybuk> so whenever you need anything less than 128 bytes, you just grab the first unusued block from that pool
[12:29] <Keybuk> and everything in that pool is 128 bytes long
[12:29] <zyga> I was really looking for some exisitng work but all I could find were multi-processor high-end allocators
[12:29] <Keybuk> you might also have a long-lived pool, for things you know are going to be around for a while
[12:30] <zyga> interesting but useless stuff for the desktop
[12:30] <Keybuk> sometimes you have a string pool, where you try some wacky stuff to re-use strings
[12:30] <zyga> I have a more generic approach
[12:30] <zyga> I have governors
[12:30] <zyga> classes and instances
[12:30] <zyga> and each governor is assigned to a fragment of vm space
[12:30] <zyga> each can really do what it wants internally
[12:31] <Keybuk> the trouble with the more complicated approaches is that you sacrifice speed for vsz
[12:31] <zyga> they have pretty simple outside api
[12:31] <zyga> yes I know
[12:31] <zyga> but that's the part of design
[12:31] <Keybuk> which de-optimises for something that needs to live fast and die young
[12:31] <zyga> to win speed by doing best not to touch swap as long as that's possible
[12:31] <zyga> well the governor init is pretty fast
[12:31] <Kamion> optimise for where it's likely to be freed> this is why application-specific allocators are often superior *anyway*
[12:31] <zyga> I'm still not sure about how to do startup
[12:32] <Keybuk> grep for example needs to just to allocate until it dies from either lack of memory, or finishes (and lets the kernel free up the memory it used)
[12:32] <zyga> app-specific allocators don't span libraries
[12:32] <Kamion> memory allocation patterns usually don't span libraries well either
[12:32] <zyga> and multiple allocators fighting one-another is bad for both vm space and swap-likliness
[12:33] <zyga> true, but an unified system that allows apps to plug their allocators 'higher' would be better
[12:33] <zyga> if you really need that custom allocator make sure it plays nicely with other parts of the system
[12:33] <zyga> anyway that's the long-term idea
[12:33] <zyga> so far I've got a trivial allocator with one governor that survives that spike test
[12:33] <zyga> and lots of ideas for other allocators
[12:34] <zyga> but I'm still far from tying that into runtime detection of what's best here
[12:34] <zyga> small object allocator, big object allocator, generic allocator (currently similar to what malloc does)
[12:35] <zyga> the key to unlocking all of this is to put a working history-based guesser that can allocate in the right governor
[12:35] <zyga> so long lived allcations go into one place mostly
[12:36] <zyga> history tracking is based on the call traceback of each malloc call
[12:37] <zyga> it's not working 'live' yet but it's a start
[12:37] <Kamion> *phew*
[12:37] <Kamion> doko: you're good to go with libstdc++ allocator changes
[12:38] <zyga> allocator changes??
[12:38] <Keybuk> hmm, I might upload udev and break the world this weekend then <g>
[12:38] <Kamion> zyga: *sigh*
[12:38] <siretart> Kamion: grats for flight cd1, man! :)
[12:39] <seb128_> Kamion: rock ;)
[12:39] <Kamion> zyga: *libstdc++*, not libc; http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2005/11/msg00010.html
[12:39] <zyga> checking
[12:40] <siretart> zyga: some ppl refer to that as the 'c2a' transition. it basically means another cxx transition *sigh*
[12:41] <zyga> ;-)
[12:41] <zyga> right
[12:41] <Keybuk> "you need to update for the C++ transition"
[12:41] <Keybuk> "right, uh, which one?"
[12:42] <siretart> hrhr
[12:44] <Keybuk> Kamion: good quote <g>
[12:44] <Kamion> I liked it
[12:45] <Keybuk> at least, I think I clicked approve
[12:45] <Keybuk> I hate mailman
[12:45] <Kamion> shout if I need to resend it
[12:45] <Keybuk> it showed up, so I must have :)
[12:46] <Kamion> ah, yes, there it is
[12:46] <HiddenWolf> Keybuk, you take pleasure in breaking the world, don't you? ;)
[12:46] <Keybuk> HiddenWolf: only by breaking the world can we learn what it's made of, and how to put one back together again
[12:46] <HiddenWolf> dude, it's saturday. Don't make me read twice. :)
[12:47] <Kamion> Keybuk: *do* sync that with an upload of linux-meta, please :)
[12:47] <Kamion> hm, we probably want l-r-m first too
[12:47] <Keybuk> yeah, we'll need to sync, at once:
[12:47] <Keybuk> 1) 2.6.15 in meta
[12:47] <Keybuk> 2) lrm
[12:47] <Keybuk> 3) udev
[12:48] <Keybuk> 4) hotplug and grepmap removed from meta
[12:48] <Kamion> l-r-m can come first
[12:48] <Keybuk> probably hal too
[12:48] <Keybuk> I'll grab everyone into #ubuntu-boot when it's "ready" and we'll make sure we lock-step everything
[12:48] <Kamion> and should, given how tricky it is to make it build
[12:48] <Keybuk> probably 5) installer checks too
[12:49] <Kamion> yeah; I'm going to be away much of the weekend
[12:49] <Kamion> we need some installer syncs/merges from upstream before the installer will work right with 2.6.15
[12:50] <Keybuk> "I'm sorry, was that your aorta?"
[12:50] <Kamion> couple of things we noticed at the last minute
[12:50] <Keybuk> what changed with 15 that broke it?
[12:51] <Kamion> Keybuk: not 15 in particular, just a few things about newish udev we forgot to actually do as opposed to talk about
[12:51] <Keybuk> oh, such as?
[12:52] <Keybuk> bearing in mind our new udev isn't the same as Debian's
[12:53] <HiddenWolf> Keybuk, why not?
[12:54] <Riddell> Kamion: nice quote :)
[12:57] <Keybuk> HiddenWolf: because Debian took a long stroll down crack-addled-alley
[12:59] <HiddenWolf> Keybuk, seriously?
[12:59] <Keybuk> take for example the elaborate maintainer scripts that mount a new tmpfs, initialise it with the newly upgraded udev, and try to migrate the existing system over to that while killing any process currently reading a device, etc.
[12:59] <HiddenWolf> ehm, ouch?
[12:59] <Keybuk> ... we decided just to leave the old /dev in place and pop up a "you might want to reboot at some point" thing
[01:00] <doko> Kamion: ok, thanks
[01:00] <HiddenWolf> Keybuk, you're telling me that udev update will kill all processes on any debian rig?
[01:00] <Keybuk> not all processes, but it'll certainly handicap a few things
[01:01] <HiddenWolf> pretty much kicking around in a domino setup...
[01:01] <Keybuk> yeah, upgrading udev is pretty much like purging your current kernel and popping a new one on the disk
[01:02] <Keybuk> or, tbh, upgrading libc
[01:02] <Keybuk> it's reboot time
[01:02] <Keybuk> trying to deal with it any other way is just not going to work
[01:02] <HiddenWolf> Poor testers, all thinking flight might be a decent time to take the plunge. :)
[01:04] <Keybuk> it is a good time
[01:04] <Keybuk> what's the point in having testers who don't want to test things? :p
[01:17] <Kamion> Keybuk: by newish I mean "post-060"
[01:18] <Kamion> Keybuk: like dealing with udevstart possibly not being there
[01:19] <Keybuk> ahh
[01:48] <HiddenWolf> Keybuk, so if this goes wrong, is the system unbootable?
[02:31] <Keybuk> HiddenWolf: only if it goes _very_ wrong
[02:32] <HiddenWolf> Keybuk, so if someone updates halfway through putting the new versions in the archive, they're screwed. :P
[02:35] <Keybuk> that's what versioned dependencies are for
[02:35] <Keybuk> though if someone compiles their own older kernel, lots of things will stop working for them
[02:35] <Keybuk> they'll get the old static /dev and no hotplug at all, etc.
[02:53] <thierry> seb128 : for https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ghextris/+bug/4618 , do I send another patch to not force the extension, or do you simply close the bug as NOTABUG ?
[02:54] <seb128> thierry: if the path is fixed there is no need to drop the .png, there is no variants
[02:54] <seb128> thierry: variants are usually shipped with themes
[02:56] <seb128> ie: if you specify just a name "icon_name"
[02:56] <thierry> seb128 : ok so you'll close it?
[02:56] <seb128> it can be shipped by different themes, with a svg variant by example
[02:56] <seb128> I already did
[02:56] <thierry> ho ok sorry<
[02:57] <thierry> we should copy your comment in the wiki page
[02:57] <seb128> I'll comment
[02:58] <thierry> k thanks
[02:58] <seb128> np
[03:00] <thierry> seb128 : while we talk about that I have other bugs that maybe you'd like to check too (for the absolute icon path thing)
[03:02] <seb128> thierry: which one?
[03:02] <thierry> seb128 : 4587 , 4608 , 4419 , 3963 AND 3951
[03:02] <seb128> thierry: I've closed 5-6 bugs this morning
[03:02] <thierry> seb128 : I know so let's do the whole clean up
[03:03] <seb128> bittornado doesn't ship a .desktop with dapper
[03:03] <seb128> so I've not commented on #4587
[03:03] <thierry> seb128 : but he needs one! no?
[03:04] <seb128> yeah, but I don't want to start doing such change, I just want to quick comment on stuff I can try without rebuilding a package modified :p
[03:04] <seb128> that's saturday
[03:04] <seb128> #4608
[03:04] <seb128> Icon=/usr/share/httrack/icons/webhttrack.xpm
[03:04] <thierry> seb128 : yeah ok... but I mean you won't close the bug for that right?
[03:04] <seb128> same issue, I reject it
[03:04] <thierry> seb128 : yeah I see
[03:04] <seb128> thierry: no
[03:04] <thierry> good
[03:08] <zakame> is mdnsresponder dropped in dapper?
[03:08] <zakame> I don't see it in packages.u.c, but asking away just to be sure :)
[03:08] <seb128> thierry: 4419 path required
[03:08] <seb128> thierry: #3963 is ok
[03:09] <pef> hello
[03:09] <seb128> thierry:utch, patch from #3951 is really broken, you just dropped the translations
[03:09] <seb128> hi pef
[03:11] <thierry> seb128 : damn, didn't saw that, but anyway it should be closed since it goes in /usr/share/gnome-system-tools/pixmaps/disks.png
[03:12] <thierry> seb128 : while looking at the patch, I remember there was some specs problems
[03:14] <seb128> thierry: there is different desktop file to autogenerate translations, etc
[03:14] <seb128> you drop the _ on _Name by example
[03:14] <seb128> which breaks the translations
[03:15] <zakame> hmmm, netatalk doesn't seem to build, build-deps not met as libdb4.2-dev removes heimdal-dev and kerberos4kth-dev, all of which build-depended on by netatalk :( what should I do?
[03:16] <seb128> zakame: your sentence is not clear
[03:17] <seb128> there is some mess with libdb versions
[03:17] <seb128> pitti started looking on that yesterday, maybe wait a few days
[03:17] <thierry> seb128 : yeah I see... but icon like<EMAIL_ADDRESS>... does it needs to stay like that?
[03:17] <seb128> thierry: yeah, they do
[03:18] <zakame> seb128: I was trying to grab the build-deps for netatalk, but I couldn't do so because upon grabbing libdb4.2-dev it tries to remove heimdal and kerberos :(
[03:18] <thierry> k
[03:22] <seb128> zakame: right, pitti was on this yesterday, wait monday
[03:22] <zakame> seb128: ah, ok, putting this on #4106 as a comment, thanks :)
[03:23] <seb128> np
[03:48] <Lathiat> mjg59: hrm, is usplash in dapper supposed to be b0rked?
[03:49] <tseng> Lathiat: yes.
[03:49] <Lathiat> ok
[03:56] <Lathiat> ooh interesting 2.6.15 sound driver for my laptop (i810) no longer has a split master/headphone
[03:56] <Lathiat> that was both a usefull and annoying feature
[04:05] <xhaker> shouldn't ubuntu-desktop depend on xchat | xchat-gnome
[04:05] <xhaker> nvm
[04:05] <xhaker> it's in universe
[04:05] <xhaker> any plans to bring it to main?
[04:10] <slomo> xhaker: when it's completly usable maybe ;)
[04:11] <xhaker> i ask this because i'd like to try it.. the spell checker sound good for ubuntu
[04:12] <xhaker> i guess i'll try it later when it gets depends on 2.6.0
[04:14] <spacey> any ms active directory guru's here by *any* chance?
[04:50] <Manny> hi
[04:51] <Manny> I'm re-asking the question here, since asking it ni #ubuntu didn't yield any results: are there any plans to add more -dbg packages? I'm specifically looking for libpoppler-glib-dbg and libpoppler-dbg
[05:10] <Riddell> Manny: I don't think there's any plans for it, but feel free to do the changes and ask for them to be reviewed and included
[05:18] <Manny> Riddell, thanks
[05:18] <Manny> Riddell, -dbg packages are particularly useful for tracking down crashes
[05:22] <pitti> Manny: eventually we want a more general approach to this
[05:22] <pitti> Manny: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomatedProblemReports
[05:26] <Manny> pitti, excellent
[05:29] <zyga> pitti: hi
[05:29] <zyga> pitti: a few questions
[05:29] <zyga> pitti: first langpack update for breezy, when
[05:30] <zyga> pitti: dapper translations open, when
[05:30] <zyga> thanks
[05:30] <zyga> carlos: ^
[05:30] <pitti> Rosetta export is currently switched off
[05:30] <pitti> without data I can't do anything
[05:30] <zyga> any particular reason? is something broken
[05:30] <pitti> I hope it is fixed soon now
[05:30] <pitti> it has been broken all the time
[05:31] <zyga> hmm :/
[05:31] <zyga> okay
[05:31] <zyga> thanks
[05:31] <zyga> and feel free to ping me if you feel that .desktop files need any coding :-)
[05:31] <zyga> I'd like to finish that one
[05:40] <psusi> I changed my sources.list to point to dapper instead of breezy, then did an apt-get update ; apt-get dist-upgrade.. it looked like it upgraded me to dapper, only a number of packages are not using the newer dapper versions
[05:40] <psusi> anyone got any idea what I did wrong?
[05:41] <hunger> psusi: This is not a support channel. Please check in #ubuntu.
[05:41] <psusi> ok... thought they were more user level issues with breezy
[05:42] <psusi> I changed my sources.list to point to dapper instead of breezy, then did an apt-get update ; apt-get dist-upgrade.. it looked like it upgraded me to dapper, only a number of packages are not using the newer dapper versions
[05:42] <psusi> damnit... sorry
[05:42] <hunger> psusi: This channel is for developer talk. Feel free to stay and listen in.
[05:44] <psusi> I'm trying to get the new version of coreutils with O_DIRECT support and possibly do some hacking on it... thought that since it was being used in dapper, I could just dist-upgrade... heh
[05:44] <hunger> psusi: I never do dist-upgrades. Always to upgrade (plus remove and install).
[05:45] <HiddenWolf> hunger, why is that? As soon as the dist-upgrade doesn't conflict, it should be perfectly safe, right?
[05:46] <hunger> HiddenWolf: Sure. It's just a control-freak kind of thing.
[05:46] <psusi> well is what I did the correct way to do a dist-upgrade?  It looked like it worked... chugged along for a while doing upgrades
[05:46] <psusi> but when I look in synaptic, I've still got the old version of coreutils
[05:46] <hunger> psusi: dist-upgrade is definitly the proper way to do it.
[05:47] <hunger> psusi: Which one is that?
[05:47] <psusi> 5.2.1
[05:47] <hunger> psusi: It is not as if *everything* changes on dist-upgrade.
[05:47] <psusi> according to packages.ubuntu.com, dapper is using coreutils 5.93
[05:47] <psusi> that's what I need
[05:48] <hunger> psusi: I am on dapper and I got 5.93. Have you tried running apt-get directly in a terminal?
[05:49] <psusi> yea... after the apt-get dist-upgrade I tried update and upgrade again... no dice
[05:50] <hunger> psusi: apt-get -f install does not find anything to fix either?
[05:50] <psusi> nope
[05:50] <hunger> psusi: Dapper is in development, sometimes something does go wrong.
[05:51] <psusi> yea... I understand... that's why I'm trying to figure out of this is something stupid that I am doing, or something is borked in the repositories
[05:51] <psusi> apt-get update fetches all the dapper package lists... I just don't get it
[05:54] <infinity> psui : apt-cache policy coreutils
[05:54] <mdz> psusi: using the us.archive.ubuntu.com mirror?
[05:55] <mdz> psusi: (it's broken at the moment)
[05:55] <psusi> yes...hr... pastebin seems to be down
[05:55] <psusi> ohh, it is?  how's it broken and is there another mirror I could use?
[05:55] <infinity> s/us.//
[05:56] <psusi> hrm... ok
[05:57] <psusi> bingo
[05:57] <psusi> upgrading 380 packages... hah
[05:57] <psusi> thanks...
[06:06] <Znarl> mdz : us.archive is broken?!?
[06:15] <psusi> it seems so
[06:29] <pitti> hmm?
[06:29] <pitti> dpkg-divert: rename involves overwriting `/usr/lib32/libGL.so.1' with
[06:29] <pitti>   different file `/usr/lib32/nvidia/libGL.so.1.xlibmesa', not allowed
[06:29] <pitti> d'oh, I can't purge nvidia-glx any more
[06:41] <zyga> pitti: I never understood why there cannot be multiple gl systems at the same time (like gl.d) with a select-opengl tool
[06:41] <hunger> zyga: gentoo has something like that.
[06:44] <zyga> oh, so it's possible technically :>
[06:44] <zyga> cool, why don't we get it?
[06:59] <mdz> Znarl: broken = hasn't been updating for a while, yeah.  we discussed it yesterday
[07:55] <desrt> mpt; pong
[08:00] <mjg59> Hmm. Anyone have any idea how many tablet PCs there are on the market?
[08:01] <Treenaks> mjg59: how many models, or how many sales of those models/
[08:02] <mjg59> How many models
[08:02] <HiddenWolf> mjg59, why? they're 90% Win or Palm.
[08:02] <mjg59> HiddenWolf: Uh. No they aren't. Tablet PCs, not PDAs.
[08:04] <sivang> mjg59: for starters, there's one per each "big" vendor, Toshiba, Panasonic, Sony, IBM, Compaq etc
[08:04] <sivang> mjg59: the Panasonic's one are interesting :)
[08:05] <mjg59> Ah. I hadn't seen any Panasonic or Sony ones.
[08:05] <mjg59> I've just written some code for the Toshiba one to detect when it's in tablet mode
[08:06] <mjg59> So I'm wondering how many people I'll need to find in order to make it useful on other pieces of hardware
[08:06] <sivang> mjg59: wow nice, do you have the hardware at your disposal?
[08:06] <mjg59> I've got a Toshiba tablet, yeah
[08:07] <sivang> mjg59: I'd say 5 people :)
[08:07] <mjg59> The HP one I've got is a slab design - there's no screen rotation, there's just keyboard attach/detatch
[08:07] <sivang> mjg59: Canonica's sponsering or privately yours?
[08:07] <mjg59> Various sources
[08:07] <sivang> mjg59: very cool
[08:08] <sivang> mjg59: so, what features does Ubuntu already supports on the Tablet PC ?
[08:08] <mjg59> sivang: Touch screen is supported if you install wacom-tools
[08:08] <mjg59> And, uh, that's about it
[08:08] <sivang> mjg59: and then I can use handwriting recognition to input in?
[08:08] <sivang> m
[08:08] <mjg59> You can install some handwriting software that doesn't work very well
[08:09] <mjg59> And then you can have extreme problems when the screensaver comes up
[08:09] <sivang> mjg59: FOSS , in need of more work ? :)
[08:09] <sivang> mjg59: well, at least good to hear from you that we're getting there
[08:10] <mjg59> Oh, and you currently still need to hack xorg.conf if wacom-tools is installed
[08:10] <mjg59> But other than that, it's all good
[08:10] <sivang> mjg59: so at least I can use my finger instead of the mouse?
[08:11] <sivang> mjg59: well, if you need someone to do testing, I'm always willing to be sent some hardware ;-D
[08:14] <HiddenWolf> mjg59, is there any chance whatsoever that ubuntu would ever get the handwriting right?
[08:15] <mjg59> sivang: They're generally wacom devices, so not a touch screen in the traditional sense
[08:15] <mjg59> You have to use a special pen
[08:15] <mjg59> HiddenWolf: Ideally
[08:22] <HiddenWolf> mjg59, not too promising. :(
[08:23] <mjg59> HiddenWolf: It's not something I've got any time to work on, but with luck somebody will be able to at some point
[08:25] <HiddenWolf> mjg59, so is it a goal to get ubuntu in the embedeed realm?
[08:28] <mjg59> HiddenWolf: That's what the ucbuntu project's supposed to be looking at
[08:34] <sivang> mjg59: Charles is one of the guys working on it right?
[08:36] <mjg59> sivang: Not sure, I'm afraid
[08:37] <sivang> mjg59: I met him at UBZ, he told me he was working on some packages for hendhelds. actually, this isn't probably "embedded" per se :)
[08:39] <mjg59> Hmm. That's interesting.
[08:39] <mjg59> One of the SATA patches is breaking suspend on this laptop
[08:49] <ispiked> mjg59: suspend to disk or suspend to ram?
[08:52] <mjg59> ispiked: Suspend to RAM
[08:59] <mjg59> Grah. Cock.
[08:59] <mjg59> It's the sata suspend/resume patch (ironically)
[08:59] <mjg59> mdz: Around by any chance?
[09:00] <mdz> yep
[09:00] <suneco> hello guys
[09:00] <suneco> plz i am semi new to ubuntu
[09:01] <suneco> and i need to know - how do i follows these instructions
[09:01] <suneco> 1/ install (using synaptic) the kernel sources for 2.6.10-5386
[09:01] <mdz> suneco: the best place to ask such questions is #ubuntu
[09:01] <suneco> yes, but they don't answer
[09:01] <suneco> its intermediate
[09:01] <suneco> ok, i will
[09:02] <mdz> there is a list of other support resources at http://www.ubuntu.com/support/
[09:02] <suneco> ok thks
[09:04] <Loevborg> I just discovered that breezy's ruby threading is borked; can't http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17415 be fixed in a breezy update?
[09:09] <ispiked> mjg59: 59?
[09:09] <mjg59> ispiked: ?
[09:10] <Blejdfizt> i'm having some trouble with launchpad.. my bugreport is falsely reported to be in upstream.. how do i remove that?
[09:10] <ispiked> mjg59: what's the 59 mean on the end of your name?
[09:10] <mjg59> ispiked: It's my university username
[09:11] <ispiked> mjg59: I see. Our scheme is <first initial><middle initial><first six letters of our last name><optional number if you're not unique>.
[09:11] <mjg59> All usernames here have numbers
[09:15] <HiddenWolf> heh
[09:15] <HiddenWolf> still better than my uni.
[09:15] <HiddenWolf> I'm 279169hb. :)
[09:43] <mpt> Blejdfizt, what's the URL of the bug report?
[09:45] <Treenaks> mpt: then you had your birthday?
[09:45] <mpt> yeah, now I'm 27 :-)
[09:45] <Treenaks> mpt: wow, mjg59 must be very old then ;)
[09:45] <mpt> but seriously, I was mpt26 at my first university
[09:45] <mpt> and thoma994 at my second
[09:47] <ispiked> oh, nevermind. princeton.org != princeton.edu
[09:47] <mpt> What did you think Brian Kernighan taught, ispiked?
[09:48] <mpt> (but yes, Princeton was neither of my universities, sad to say)
[09:48] <Treenaks> mpt: wrong continent?
[09:48] <mpt> indeed
[09:51] <mpt> Blejdfizt, if you're going to come back later and try asking again you might get a better response in #launchpad
[10:02] <zyga> hi
[10:02] <zyga> is it just me or is ubuntu.com down?
[10:10] <HiddenWolf> it's up for me
[10:10] <Blejdfizt> mpt: sorry.. was writing on a report :)
[10:10] <Blejdfizt> mpt: https://launchpad.net/products/glibc/+bug/4641
[10:32] <mpt> Blejdfizt, so the bug occurs only in the Ubuntu glibc package, not in glibc upstream?
[10:34] <mpt> unfortunately you can't alter the upstream request because of https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/1342
[10:34] <mpt> I'll do it for you since I'm a Launchpad admin
[10:34] <mpt> if it's true that the bug doesn't happen upstream
[10:35] <Blejdfizt> i cannot confirm that it does or doesn't occur upstream
[10:36] <Blejdfizt> i just did the report wrong :)
[10:36] <Blejdfizt> it works in debian stable (but it's an older version there).
[10:37] <mpt> ok
[10:37] <Blejdfizt> the first post (with the patch) could be removed also since the patch is in an attachment
[10:40] <mpt> Malone doesn't remove comments (including original bug reports), but hopefully they'll eventually be hidden by default if superceded, as described in https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/KeepingBugsConcise
[10:41] <Blejdfizt> ok.. i'll know that until next time then :)
[10:42] <mpt> yeah, patches are much better as attachments
[10:43] <Blejdfizt> but.. i attached a patch :)
[10:54] <zyga> can anyone give me a direct link to 'download breezy' section
[10:55] <zyga> somehow my isp has broken connection to the majority of outside world
[10:55] <zyga> and I'm just about to publish a new version of ubuntu.pl
[11:02] <psusi> jesus I hate octal
[11:03] <zyga> psusi: why?
[11:04] <psusi> I dunno... I just don't like octal
[11:04] <psusi> I have to think to figure out how it maps to binary
[11:04] <psusi> hex I just see it in binary right away
[11:07] <zyga> octal only makes sense to chmod arguments IMHO :-)
[11:07] <psusi> I can't stand it there either