[07:31] <Fujitsu> [A2
[10:50] <theunixgeek> Is the meeting beginning? :)
[10:50] <jpatrick> soon (tm)
[10:50] <Hobbsee> almost
[10:55] <Zic> @schedule Paris
[10:55] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: Current meeting: Kubuntu Developers 12 Mar 22:00: Server Team | 19 Mar 22:00: Server Team | 26 Mar 22:00: Server Team
[10:55] <Zic> hmm
[10:56] <Zic> @now Paris
[10:56] <ubotu> Current time in Europe/Paris: March 08 2008, 11:56:48 - Current meeting: Kubuntu Developers
[11:00] <jpatrick> noon all
[11:00] <jpatrick> who's here for the meeting?
[11:00] <Lure> noon confirmed here ;-)
[11:00]  * Lure is here, but may need to run in half an hour
[11:00] <jpatrick> We have one agenda item for today: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
[11:01] <jpatrick> and dear apachelogger's disappeared again
[11:01] <theunixgeek> Is the meeting beginning? :)
[11:01] <Lure> jpatrick: we can reject his proposal in his absence ;-)
[11:01]  * Hobbsee is here
[11:01]  * xRaich[o]2x is here for the meeting. Just peeking.
[11:01]  * Hobbsee is even on kubuntu atm!
[11:02] <jpatrick> theunixgeek: seems to be
[11:02]  * stdin starts paying attention
[11:02] <Lure> Hobbsee: welcome back to sanity ;-)
[11:02] <Hobbsee> Lure: and bugs, yes.
[11:02] <Lure> Hobbsee: just right time to fix some ;-)
[11:02] <jpatrick> anyone have any items to discuss?
[11:02]  * Hobbsee isn't exactly sure why some of the windows will refuse to raise from minimised, though
[11:04] <Lure> nothing to discuss then?
[11:04] <jpatrick> or any last minute member candidates?
[11:04] <Hobbsee> is Riddell here?
[11:04] <Lure> jpatrick: not sure if we have quorum
[11:04] <Hobbsee> nixternal: might be around
[11:04] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: he's out so I got leadership for meeting
[11:04] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: eparse
[11:05] <theunixgeek> jpatrick: me
[11:05] <jpatrick> theunixgeek: do you have a wikipage?
[11:05] <theunixgeek> jpatrick: on wikipedia yes :P
[11:05] <jpatrick> Lure: we can still mail the other council members with member requests
[11:05] <jpatrick> ubotu: tell theunixgeek about member
[11:07] <jpatrick> well, one apache's item, I'm all in for having Dragon Player as default :)
[11:08] <theunixgeek> jpatrick: without being a member I can't participate in the meeting?
[11:08] <fir3__> makes sense since it's the only qt4 player currently available
[11:08] <Lure> jpatrick: I also do not see better alternative at this point of time
[11:08] <smarter> smplayer is also available
[11:08] <jpatrick> theunixgeek: you can
[11:08] <Hobbsee> theunixgeek: you can participate
[11:08] <smarter> and kplayer(but not packaged)
[11:08] <jpatrick> smarter: don't see kplayer getting past Feature Freeze
[11:09] <jpatrick> and we'll need a MainInclusionReport for DragonPlayer
[11:09] <Lure> theunixgeek: membership is more a recognition of contribution, but we accept any contributions from anybody - so feel free to contribute on our meetings
[11:09] <theunixgeek> ok :)
[11:09] <Lure> jpatrick: not really - kde4 will stay in universe
[11:09] <Hobbsee> -1 to dragon player.  does it do ogg?
[11:10] <fir3__> but people using kde4 at its current state should be able to pick a video player on their own anyway
[11:10] <jpatrick> Lure: for ibex, but it's going to be part for kdemultimedia by then
[11:10] <smarter> last time I checked you couldn't switch between DVD chapters with dragonplayer
[11:10] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: yep, it's KDE 4 codeine
[11:11] <smarter> and I've seen lots of people complaining about the lack of features of dragonplayer
[11:11] <smarter> another Qt4 player is the new VLC(beta atm)
[11:11] <fir3__> i'm for qt4 vlc, if it works well
[11:12] <theunixgeek> So when will the meeting begin? :)
[11:12] <Hobbsee> either the deps are wrong, or this player is very unstable.
[11:12] <Hobbsee> or it just doesn't like me
[11:13]  * Hobbsee had one file where it crashed, and another with no audio
[11:13] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: well, apache packaged it
[11:13] <fir3__> but it won't be possible to make kde4 a feature-complete desktop as kde3 at it's current state, so i think stability of the apps is more important, kde4 is buggy enough
[11:14] <Hobbsee> er, no *video*
[11:14] <fir3__> what kde4 version will hardy use, btw? 4.0.2 or later(svn)?
[11:14] <smarter> 4.0.3/4.0.4
[11:16] <Hobbsee> oh, doesn't work with desktop effects enabled, at all, on intel cards
[11:16] <jpatrick> I've heard Debian will start uploading KDE 4.1 betas this month
[11:17] <jpatrick> (or at least they refused my dragonplayer package because of that)
[11:17] <kwwii> sorry for showing up late
[11:17] <Hobbsee> looks like a nice player, modulo that
[11:17] <Hobbsee> hi kwwii
[11:17] <kwwii> hi Hobbsee
[11:17] <fir3__> jpatrick: i thought 4.1 would be released in summer?
[11:17] <Hobbsee> but i suspect that's a driver problem
[11:17] <Hobbsee> fir3__: hence the betas
[11:17] <jpatrick> fir3__: snapshots and stuff
[11:18] <fir3__> nice :)
[11:18]  * Hobbsee watches monty python in the background
[11:18] <theunixgeek> This is the meeting? :) It's completely different than I thought.
[11:19] <xRaich[o]2x> Suse also is doing a KDE4.1 snapshot livecd.
[11:19] <Hobbsee> theunixgeek: it's rather relaxed today.  something with not much to do on the agenda
[11:19] <theunixgeek> ok
[11:21] <jpatrick> anyone have any topics we could discuss at UDS this May?
[11:22] <kwwii> how about the website redesign, perhaps working on the wiki as well
[11:23] <jpatrick> kwwii: ryancak is working on the website and it's going on quite well
[11:23] <jpatrick> (Current UDS topics I have are http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/58858/ btw)
[11:24] <kwwii> looks like a good list :-)
[11:25] <jpatrick> I think JR changed it at one point tho, but other items are welcome
[11:26] <kwwii> I had hoped taht stefan would be at the meeting to discuss the new themeing he put together
[11:28] <jpatrick> any url so we can all see it?
[11:32] <kwwii> unfortunately it is all on his server, no idea where :-(
[11:32] <kwwii> he'll miss the beta and after that it will be too late .-(
[11:34] <jpatrick> hrm.. :-(
[11:35] <jpatrick> I suppose there's always Ibex, or is it KDE 3 themeing?
[11:37] <xRaich[o]2x> I saw that you guys consider to pick up koffice for the kubuntu-office-suite. Are we talking about Ibex Office here?
[11:38] <jpatrick> xRaich[o]2x: those ideas are all for ibex
[11:39] <xRaich[o]2x> jpatrick: I just tested Krita and it's still in unusable state. And I don't think it'll be any better when Ibex comes out. When are they planing to do the final?
[11:41] <jpatrick> xRaich[o]2x: no idea, maybe by summer
[11:41] <jpatrick> hey, we could get _czessi up for membership (as he's in the ~kubuntu-members queue)
[11:43] <xRaich[o]2x> Hmm. Maybe they'll hit that date. If they do it would be a cool alternative for openoffice.
[11:46] <jpatrick> yeah
[11:46] <jpatrick> so, anything else to discuss?
[11:47] <Hobbsee> not from me
[11:47] <xRaich[o]2x> jpatrick: Just checked the koffice site. They are planning to release it in june.
[11:48] <jpatrick> xRaich[o]2x: awesome :)
[11:48] <xRaich[o]2x> May 16 RC1. I'll be sure to Test the beta ^^
[11:49] <jpatrick> xRaich[o]2x: well the final will probably get into Ibex
[11:50] <jpatrick> well, meeting over I guess..
[11:50] <jpatrick> and thanks for coming :)
[18:40] <shadowh512> it the ubuntu art meeting soon?
[18:41] <CaioAlonso> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event look at the calendar
[18:41] <shadowh512> ok
[19:47] <steph_> hi
[19:57] <dsargeant> touchpad and trackpoint (lenovo laptop)
[20:12] <dsargeant> oops, wrong window
[20:13] <steph_> :)
[20:13] <dsargeant> are people here for the art meeting?
[20:14] <CaioAlonso> no idea
[20:15] <fruchtschwert> 45 minutes to go
[20:15] <fruchtschwert> i think ..
[20:16] <andrea-bs> the art meeting is not scheduled, are you sure to be in the right channel?
[20:16] <dsargeant> sorry, I was just making sure that art meeting was up next.

[20:16] <dsargeant> andrea-bs: that's what I was trying to check, I'm not sure
[20:17] <dsargeant> andrea-bs: I noticed it wasn't on the schedule
[20:17] <andrea-bs> dsargeant: sometimes there are also some non-scheduled meetings
[20:19] <dsargeant> I guess I'll find out in 45 mins
[20:19] <andrea-bs> I think it will be took here: <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Meetings>
[20:20] <fruchtschwert> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2008-March/005494.html
[20:20] <steph_> and now it's 20:22 UTC ?
[20:21] <Jtsukishiro> yep
[20:21] <andrea-bs> @now
[20:21] <steph_> good.
[20:21] <steph_> I mean gooooooood
[20:22] <steph_> it's late :(
[20:22] <steph_> I've got to go at a party with friends next
[20:22] <steph_> but for me, meeting is at 22:00
[20:22] <steph_> if you wanna know much more about my exciting life, mail me.
[20:22] <Jtsukishiro> ^^
[20:23] <CaioAlonso> =D
[20:28] <Jtsukishiro> someone speaks Spanish?
[20:47] <steph_> ten minutes remaining.
[20:48] <ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: March 08 2008, 20:48:04 - Next meeting: Server Team in 4 days
[20:48] <kwwii> art meeting soon
[20:48] <kwwii> even if it is incorrectly planned :p
[20:51] <steph_> :)
[20:52] <laughing_man> incorrectly planned?
[20:53] <dsargeant> it wasn't on the schedule http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event
[20:54] <laughing_man> ahh, yeah i noticed that too. But it was on the "artwork" section of the site. So you know, we're here.
[20:54] <laughing_man> :-)
[20:55] <dsargeant> no harm done
[20:55] <laughing_man> indeed
[20:58] <kwwii> ok, let's give people a few more minutes to join and then start things up
[21:01] <kwwii> ok, so everyone/anyone here for the art meeting?
[21:01] <laughing_man> i am
[21:02] <dsargeant> me too
[21:02] <kwwii> ok, so let's go through the points
[21:02] <kwwii>  * GDM:  getting the bg inline with the wallpaper; new icons
[21:02] <kwwii>  * GTK:  tweaking the gtk themes and discussing clearlooks vs. murrine
[21:02] <kwwii>  * DESKTOP: Wallpaper tweaks. Discussing current state, ideas for moving
[21:02] <kwwii> forward
[21:02] <kwwii>  * ICONS: Needed! Update icon in Human style for panel; Scale and Expose
[21:02] <kwwii> icons; General state of human refresh
[21:02] <kwwii>  * 8.10: Discuss current ideas, how to move forward
[21:02] <kwwii>  * 8.10 DeviantArt Theme Competition:  A way to engage with the wider
[21:02] <kwwii> community of creative-commons artists.
[21:02] <kwwii> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/deviantart-theme-competition
[21:02] <sam7> hello, i'm here this time
[21:02] <kwwii> well, that did not work as well as I thought it could
[21:03] <kwwii> let's start at the top; GDM
[21:03] <sam7> the GDM must look like the main theme
[21:03] <gp[]> hello everyone people
[21:03] <kwwii> been thinking about using a heron-like bg for the gdm
[21:03] <kwwii> hi gp[], sam7 laughing_man, dsargeant
[21:04] <laughing_man> hello
[21:04] <sam7> yes, the hardy heron, with only one button in the left corner
[21:04] <fruchtschwert> maybe it should match with the wallpaper .. ?
[21:04] <sam7> yest
[21:04] <laughing_man> can we refrain from acyronims for the time being.
[21:04] <kwwii> fruchtschwert: that is the point, really
[21:04] <steph_> kwwii, you mean changing GDM at each release ?
[21:04] <laughing_man> what is GDM?
[21:04] <steph_> Gnome Display Manager
[21:04] <steph_> you connexion screen
[21:05] <kwwii> steph_: I would like to see the bg in gdm at least match with the desktop
[21:05] <kwwii> it does not have to be exactly the same
[21:05] <sam7> it must be the same as the theme used by default
[21:05] <dsargeant> are we decided on the wallpaper then?
[21:05] <sam7> of course
[21:05] <kwwii> just using some elements from the wallpaper would be enough  I htink
[21:05] <sam7> but it must look like
[21:05] <sam7> sorry for my bad english
[21:05] <kwwii> we are very close to being certain that some form of the heron will be default
[21:05] <kwwii> either the heron or elephant
[21:06] <dsargeant> my vote's for the heron
[21:06] <fruchtschwert> what about this kutie fela wallpaper ?
[21:06] <sam7> the 2 will be instaled by default
[21:06] <fruchtschwert> why elephant ?
[21:06] <steph_> yes, I must admit GDM is a little too 'simple'
[21:06] <gp[]> i agre with you kwwii for the gdm, i vote for heron
[21:06] <steph_> we could tweak it a littlt
[21:06] <kwwii> fruchtschwert: feta kuli is the heron I am talking about
[21:06] <sam7> GDM & wallpaper
[21:06] <sam7> heron & elephant
[21:06] <kwwii> another point in gdm is the icons that come with it
[21:07] <kwwii> we need to make new ones (I cretaed one quickly to fix a bug)
[21:07] <dsargeant> are we using the same gdm layout?
[21:07] <kwwii> dsargeant: bascially, yes
[21:07] <sam7> 2 colours : brown/orange for gnome and blue for KDE
[21:07] <kwwii> dsargeant: unless we can think of some worthwhile change
[21:07] <sam7> yes, new icones is a good idea
[21:08] <sam7> more modern
[21:08] <steph_> kwwii, the one you've done is quite nice :)
[21:08] <kwwii> so if anyone is interested in working on either of those points, let me know
[21:08] <steph_> I want to learn icon creations. This doesn't mean I can do it :)
[21:08] <kwwii> steph_: the general style of those icons is nasty though
[21:08] <steph_> old fashionned
[21:08] <kwwii> right
[21:09] <sam7> i dont know how to do it, but it must be interesting
[21:09] <steph_> I'd like to have a look, but I'm gonna be disconnected :]
[21:09] <steph_> by the way, just a question
[21:09] <laughing_man> what icons in particular are we talking about? i'm soooo lost.
[21:09] <kwwii> so moving on to the next topic
[21:09] <steph_> is there a way to make a better transition between GDM and Desktop
[21:09] <kwwii> laughing_man: the restart, shut-down, hibernate, sleep icons in the menu at the bottom left of gdm (after you click on the system icon)
[21:09] <steph_> how'd you say the word...it's not gradient
[21:10] <kwwii> steph_: that is one thing that we are pretty much always looking into
[21:10] <kwwii> but it is not something that will happen soon
[21:10] <sam7> why not create a new usplash
[21:10] <fruchtschwert> and a nice grub ..
[21:10] <kwwii> sam7: feel free to make a proposal
[21:10] <fruchtschwert> i'm not the big developer .. just asking ..
[21:11] <sam7> yes, all the icones must be changed, and more modern
[21:11] <dsargeant> shouldn't those icons be the same as are displayed when you click on system quit in gnome?
[21:11] <kwwii> so, next topic
[21:11] <kwwii> GTK
[21:11] <kwwii> I tweaked both the themes a bit
[21:11] <steph_> Can't find the word
[21:11] <sam7> i dont know how to do
[21:11] <kwwii> that should be apparent by now...I have another change ready, getting the orange color correct is somewhat hard and took some testing
[21:11] <sam7> i think the new LTS must be the occasion to change icones by defaul
[21:11] <laughing_man> is there a visual database of all these proposals? or is this all conceptual/descriptive at this point?
[21:11] <kwwii> dsargeant: ideally yes, all the icons for that metaphor should look the same
[21:12] <mgunes> kwwii, do you submit your changes to a bzr repo anywhere?
[21:12] <sam7> i'd like to learn to do it
[21:12] <kwwii> mgunes: yes, I put the changes in human-theme on launchpad
[21:12] <kwwii> but it should already be in the repo I guess
[21:12] <mikemaccana> And there I was in -artwork wondering why everyone was so quiet
[21:13] <kwwii> mgunes: I will be commiting some more changes either later or tomorrow
[21:13] <kwwii> mikemaccana: :-)
[21:13] <sladen> sb end
[21:13] <mgunes> kwwii, thanks
[21:13] <dsargeant> I think the color selection ability in the gtk should be a priority.
[21:13] <kwwii> I think that if we are going to change the theme engine murrine looks like the more flexible engine
[21:13] <kwwii> dsargeant: I agree with that too an extent
[21:14] <sam7> yes, the colors are important
[21:14] <kwwii> the idea behind the color select stuff is great, but if I cannot easily make a theme which looks like I want it to, I will happily lose that option for this one theme
[21:14] <dsargeant> so far the clearlooks is the only one that has the ability, correct?
[21:14] <sam7> something between brown and orange for example
[21:14] <kwwii> there is a suggested murrine as well
[21:14] <kwwii> I thought about playing with that for a bit to see if I could fix things up
[21:15] <mgunes> kwwii, human-murrine-mod?
[21:15] <gp[]> yes, I agre with the idea to swith at murrine engine
[21:15] <kwwii> mgunes: yes
[21:15] <laughing_man> all right, well as much fun as this is.. i think i'm just going to bow out now because i'm just an artist i got no idea what you people are refering to with all your GTK GDM etc. talk.. Good luck with everything! i'll just submit a wallpaper or something on deviantart.
[21:15] <sam7> with black and or grey
[21:15] <steph_> kwwii, at the moment, I'm using a theme I found yesterday on the Web, wich is MurrinaTango
[21:15] <fruchtschwert> is the gradient between menubar and symbolbar available in murrine too ?
[21:15] <fruchtschwert> this hack by xlcheese ?
[21:15] <steph_> I think we should do something in the style
[21:15] <steph_> give you a screenshot
[21:15] <sam7> for the "tableau de bords"
[21:15] <DanaG> Hmm, I currently use an orange Aurora theme I assembled myself.  Somebody else described it as "another unnecessary fork of Murrine", but it looks way different to me.
[21:15] <kwwii> first off, we will not be using any hacked themes
[21:15] <kwwii> it is too late for that now
[21:15] <dsargeant> laughing_man: are you subsribed to the ubuntu-art mailing list?
[21:16] <laughing_man> no
[21:16] <kwwii> so if we pick a theme engine it is between clearlooks and murrine
[21:16] <kwwii> or ubuntulooks, naturally
[21:16] <kwwii> I get the feeling that just trying to tweak things in an existing theme is not the right way to go about this
[21:16] <dsargeant> laughing_man: people seem to be submitting artwork there
[21:16] <DanaG> My current theme also uses the Tropic metacity theme without the red button.
[21:16] <DanaG> www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/screenshot.png   -- can you make Murrine look like that Aurora, too?
[21:16] <fruchtschwert> but i heard murrine has more modern features than clearlooks without hacks
[21:16] <gp[]> the murrine is a good a flexible engine
[21:16] <fruchtschwert> so probably choose this one
[21:16] <kwwii> we should know what we want in advance and then get a theme written which does that
[21:17] <laughing_man> dsargent: i'm not a hardcore linux user i just use it for basic things.. i wanted to help out with the art, but i'm just too confused by all this technical speak to keep up, or really contribute.
[21:17] <sam7> murrine is a good idea
[21:17] <kwwii> laughing_man: it will not all be this technical
[21:17] <fruchtschwert> i also read, murrine can do transparency .. this would be great
[21:17] <dsargeant> laughing_man: yeah, don't be discouraged.  The deviant art topic is on the agenda too.
[21:18] <andreasn> sorry for the late arrival, had some technical issues
[21:18] <sam7> yes, its great transparency
[21:18] <gp[]>  I saw the color scheme used in Alpha 6 for murrine and it very nice
[21:18] <kwwii> I think that the way forward is to try and use murrine with the intent to create a theme of our own based somewhat on that for hardy+1
[21:18] <gp[]> I agre with you (kwwii)
[21:18] <laughing_man> well if you could point me to screen shots like danaG i can give an opinion.. :-)
[21:18] <sam7> why not for the 8.04 LTS
[21:19] <steph_> http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/1379/murrinatangofb7.png
[21:19] <gp[]> murrine is very flexible
[21:19] <dsargeant> is it possible to add the color selection to murrine?
[21:19] <kwwii> keep up the discussion on the list about this stuff
[21:19] <mgunes> kwwii, I reckon what we want to do is get rid of the blandness of Ubuntulooks and introduce a tiny bit of vividness and contrast with a new engine, without drifting too far from the theme of the last three releases
[21:19] <steph_> kwwii, what do you think about the menubar ?
[21:19] <fruchtschwert> i agree with mgunes
[21:20] <sam7> The menubar must be more modern
[21:20] <sam7> more fluide
[21:20] <kwwii> mgunes: I think that things like the ubuntulooks scrollbars and progress bars are pretty cool and that we might want to evolve that style a bit instead of just pitching it because an existing theme doesn't do it like that
[21:20] <steph_> I like the stripes in menubars
[21:20] <kwwii> so, the next subject is the wallpaper
[21:20] <kwwii> it seems like we have almost covered that already
[21:20] <fruchtschwert> are these bars not possible with murrine ?
[21:21] <dsargeant> The animated progress bars look strange in network manager.
[21:21] <laughing_man> i think it's important to perserve the colorscheme of ubuntu.. :-) and i do like the stripes in the menubars.. it's simple but looks polished and slick.
[21:21] <fruchtschwert> i like them
[21:21] <kwwii> feta kuli (the heron pic) is very popular
[21:21] <sam7> the systeme menu must be reorganised
[21:21] <kwwii> I will probably edit the background parts a bit to reduce the contrast
[21:21] <fruchtschwert> i think its a great idea to make a connection with the distribution naming
[21:22] <laughing_man> kwwi, what are you reffering to when you say you'll edit?
[21:22] <laughing_man> do you have a screen image i can see?
[21:22] <DanaG> If the (tweaked not to look bloody) heron pic ends up as default in Hardy, I am so going to get a case skin of it (with a black background) for my next laptop.
[21:22] <kwwii> laughing_man: what I miss most in the murrine progress bars is the little lines showing percentage or whatever
[21:22] <mgunes> the problem is that "Hardy Heron" isn't the release name. it's the development codename
[21:22] <andreasn> I noticed some issues with the background on some screens with 16 bit systems, anyone else ran into that?
[21:22] <mgunes> besides, most non-English speaking people won't associate the picture with a "Heron"
[21:22] <andreasn> err...16 bit color depth
[21:22] <kwwii> andreasn: probably with the gradient and the transparent things on top
[21:23] <kwwii> color-banding or whatever it is called
[21:23] <fruchtschwert> doesn't mark shuttleworth give guidelines concerning the wallpaper ? or at least an opinion ?
[21:23] <laughing_man> what is the murrine progress bar? lol i don't know the technical names of anything... sorry
[21:23] <kwwii> fruchtschwert: yes, he does, to me :-)
[21:23] <andreasn> kwwii: did you settle for either murrine or clearloooks yet?
[21:23] <fruchtschwert> so, what does he say :-)
[21:23] <dsargeant> laughing_man: murrine is the engine used to draw windows.
[21:23] <kwwii> andreasn: nope, not sure yet
[21:24] <fruchtschwert> maybe we should rewind to engine once more
[21:24] <kwwii> andreasn: it will either be murrine or ubuntulooks again
[21:24] <fruchtschwert> to gtk i mean
[21:24] <kwwii> if you ask me, that is ;-)
[21:24] <andreasn> kwwii: ah, ok
[21:24] <kwwii> dsargeant: nope, murrine is used to draw all the things inside windows, metacity is used to draw windows :D
[21:24] <DanaG> Are murrine and clearlooks the only two choices?  I'd hope to also see Aurora and Fedora's Nodoka engines packaged, at least, even if not used by default.  Both theme engines look nice to me.
[21:25] <steph_> and metacity theme have to be reviewed
[21:25] <kwwii> DanaG: they could certainly be packaged, have you ever done that kinda stuff before?
[21:25] <andreasn> did either of those (ubuntulooks or murrine) have any issues with the firefox3 betas? I know Nodoka ran into some issues
[21:25] <steph_> cause I think this is the most old-fshionned of the theme
[21:25] <fruchtschwert> the developer of murrine quite critized these alternative engines
[21:25] <dsargeant> kwwii: sorry, that's what I meant, the insides
[21:25] <DanaG> Here's a theme I used for a while, until I realized it was making me gloomy:  http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/screenshot-dark.png
[21:25] <laughing_man> I had read that artist were asked to use open-source graphics software to create the wallpaper? Is that set in stone? because frankly OSS graphics software is nowhere near as good as Adobe software. can someone explain were we're at on that?
[21:25] <fruchtschwert> as useless forks :-)
[21:26] <kwwii> laughing_man: no, that is not really true
[21:26] <gp[]> why not use a new metacity theme? xl_cheese posted a very nice metacity theme in mailinglist
[21:26] <DanaG> If you can reproduce them with Murrine, then they're useless, but otherwise, they seem different to me.
[21:26] <mgunes> andreasn, see bug 192778
[21:26] <laughing_man> Dana, this is gloomy... we don't want people to get depressed!
[21:26] <kwwii> gp[]: because that would change the look of the last of the cycle, a long term support product
[21:26] <DanaG> But just look at the engine and ignore the wallpaper and colors.  Fedora 8 uses that engine with a ridiculously-bright blue.
[21:26] <kwwii> we will change things up after hardy
[21:26] <sam7> metacity is beautifull too
[21:26] <andreasn> mgunes: gnome bugzilla? mozilla or launchpad?
[21:26] <steph_> DanaG, it looks a little KDE-like, but nice
[21:27] <mgunes> andreasn, sorry, LP
[21:27] <gp[]> kwwii: ok ok
[21:27] <laughing_man> Okay so it's my impression that we're working to design the default graphics on this, but everything will still be as customizable a ever right?
[21:27] <kwwii> laughing_man: yepp
[21:27] <fruchtschwert> we should copy fedora
[21:27] <fruchtschwert> we should not
[21:27] <steph_> laughing_man, free graphical softwares are quite powerful...if you know how to use it
[21:27] <fruchtschwert> i wanted to say
[21:27] <sam7> no, we mus'nt copy
[21:27] <DanaG> I'll screenshot that theme with orange.
[21:27]  * kwwii runs to the bathroom at the half-way point
[21:28] <fruchtschwert> .. so somebody knows a good joke ?
[21:28] <laughing_man> steph, i'm sorry to say for professional purposes, FOSS graphics programs don't hold a candle to photoshop.. hate to say it, but it's true.
[21:29] <steph_> Really high professionals, in this case
[21:29] <laughing_man> steph: some of us are that ;-)
[21:29] <kwwii> ok, sorry for that
[21:29] <laughing_man> yes dana please screenshot the theme you're talking about.
[21:29] <kwwii> so next up....
[21:29] <kwwii> ICONS
[21:29] <dsargeant> laughing_man: My opinion is you can use whatever you want to create the art as long as it can be opened with foss.
[21:30] <kwwii> we hae several icons which need to be made, anyone here want to make an icon? :-)
[21:30] <kwwii> pretty please?
[21:30] <laughing_man> good opinion dsargent.. :-)
[21:30] <mgunes> kwwii, what's the status of your panel icons?
[21:30] <laughing_man> what do you want the icon to be made for?
[21:30] <steph_> I don't know if someone noticed
[21:30] <steph_> but in your home folder
[21:30] <steph_> default view
[21:30] <sam7> why not, if someone tell me how to do
[21:30] <laughing_man> and what type of file should it be to be useable?
[21:30] <steph_> folder icons don't look really nice
[21:30] <DanaG> www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/screenshot-orange-nodoka.png
[21:31] <steph_> but just type Ctrl + (increase icon size) and they look really great !
[21:31] <steph_> too bad it's not the same effect at normal size.
[21:31] <kwwii> mgunes: a few of them are done, kinda hoping that others would pitch in as well :-)
[21:31] <fruchtschwert> thats nice dana
[21:31] <kwwii> we found that we need to make them smaller, the same size as the text
[21:31] <kwwii> the clock text, I mena
[21:31] <laughing_man> dana: i don't see the difference between this one and the first SS you posted.
[21:31] <kwwii> mean
[21:31] <fruchtschwert> can we have that stripe with murrine or clearlooks ?
[21:32] <mgunes> kwwii, are they in bzr too?
[21:32] <andreasn> kwwii: did you have the monocrome stuff in launchpad somewhere? I would like to do some more experiments for that as well
[21:32] <kwwii> mgunes: yepp, human-panel-icons or such
[21:32] <mgunes> ok
[21:32] <mgunes> there's the issue of Firefox 3 using the standard folder icon at a very small size, making it look cramped, especially on small displays
[21:32] <DanaG> The difference between that and the first is that the first is Aurora, and that is Nodoka.  Same color settings on both.
[21:32] <kwwii> https://launchpad.net/human-panel-icons/
[21:33] <kwwii> so beyond that we have the 8.10 stuff
[21:33] <mgunes> the fact that it uses GTK theme elements is great, but this is an unfortunate side effect
[21:33] <kwwii> moving forward, I think that we will see things really heat up soon
[21:33] <kwwii> as hardy stuff clears up we will see more work towards the hardy+1 stuff
[21:34] <kwwii> we have a bunch of stuff on the wiki, some of it very interesting
[21:34] <laughing_man> can you link the wiki
[21:34] <kwwii> getting that information and looking into alternatives is still at hand
[21:35] <andreasn> mgunes: is this with human-icon-theme? I haven't ran into this issue with the regular gnome set, so I would consither that a bug in the icon set.
[21:35] <mgunes> andreasn, yes, it's with the default icons we use
[21:35] <kwwii> because we have so much new stuff with new code it will have to start very early in the cycle
[21:36] <kwwii> mgunes: is it a reported bug? if not, please create a bug
[21:36] <mgunes> kwwii, I will.
[21:37] <fruchtschwert> so which icons are missing ?
[21:37] <fruchtschwert> only for the panel ?
[21:37] <kwwii> fruchtschwert: there are two icons missing which appear in a menu on the desktop (scale and expose)
[21:38] <dsargeant> kwwii: laughing_man: is this the stuff of the wiki you were referring to? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate
[21:38] <kwwii> I have an expose icon almost finished, if someone wants to help with the scale icon let me know
[21:38] <sam7> i'd like to create an icon for the GDM, but i don't know how to do
[21:38] <kwwii> in addition we need a new update icon for the panel
[21:38] <kwwii> dsargeant: yes
[21:39] <sam7> i agree, this one wasn't interesting
[21:39] <mgunes> kwwii, any guidelines for the update icon? monochrome? exclamation mark or none? bright colors?
[21:39] <fruchtschwert> are you considering using color for important icons ?
[21:39] <sam7> it must be more modern
[21:39] <laughing_man> dsargeant! yes, images! i can see these, this is what I need to understand what you guys are talking about!
[21:39] <kwwii> mgunes: it should fit with the other human icons, and it does not necessarily have to be a star
[21:39] <kwwii> some have an up arrow for update
[21:39] <dsargeant> laughing_man: :)
[21:39] <sam7> an icone whit 2 colors
[21:39] <laughing_man> references... like i said i'm not a hardcore terminal using linux user!
[21:40] <fruchtschwert> up-arrow sounds nice
[21:40] <kwwii> others want a down arrow for "download new updates"
[21:40] <fruchtschwert> :-)
[21:40] <mgunes> you mean UPdates? :)
[21:40] <fruchtschwert> what about a small ubuntu logo for updates ?
[21:40] <andreasn> the default have a pretty clear metaphor, so it coult be a idea to just restyle that a bit
[21:41] <kwwii> fruchtschwert: because we already have one of those in the panel
[21:41] <mikemaccana> fruchtschwert: I think we might want to avoid over-using the ubuntu logo
[21:41] <sam7> ok, but different of the main menu
[21:41] <andreasn> can't remember from the top of my head what we used for firefox3 right now :/
[21:41] <fruchtschwert> yeah, OK
[21:41] <mgunes> using the ubuntu logo is probably not a good idea for derivatives
[21:41] <sam7> with a scren in the midle
[21:41] <kwwii> if anyone thinks of anything, let me know :-)
[21:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 192778 in human-gtk-theme "Form buttons in Firefox 3 should have transparent corners (dup-of: 195929)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/192778
[21:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 195929 in gtk2-engines-murrine "Cosmetic bug: rectangular white outline surrounding rounded buttons" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195929
[21:42] <kwwii> or just draw the icons and then let me know, however you want :p
[21:42] <sam7> wy not, make othe icones for the derivative
[21:42] <dsargeant> laughing_man: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/GetInvolved
[21:42] <fruchtschwert> what about a + symbol ?
[21:42] <fruchtschwert> for "making things better" ?
[21:42] <sam7> ok, verry good
[21:43] <kwwii> not a bad idea, perhaps with something in the bg
[21:43] <sam7> yes !
[21:43] <fruchtschwert> do we have space for BG ? :-)
[21:43] <kwwii> so, last but not least is the DeviantArt Theme Competition stuff
[21:43] <mikemaccana> What abotu the existing hardy update logo
[21:43] <mikemaccana> The orange star-type shape with down arrow?
[21:44] <kwwii> mikemaccana: which one do you mean?
[21:44] <fruchtschwert> there is a down arrow in it ?
[21:44] <mikemaccana> kwwii: orange colored
[21:44] <kwwii> yeah, that is the one that we were asked to work on
[21:44] <fruchtschwert> i never recognized it
[21:44] <sam7> why not ?
[21:44] <mikemaccana> Ah. I quite liked it. It coneyed 'new' (the star shape) and 'downloads (the down arrow)
[21:45]  * mikemaccana doesn't associate 'up' with updates the same way down is with downloads
[21:45] <dsargeant> I liked it too; it got my attention.
[21:45] <fruchtschwert> maybe I did not look close enough
[21:45] <fruchtschwert> it wasn't that bad, though
[21:45] <kwwii> mikemaccana: quite a few people said the same thing to me
[21:46] <mgunes> kwwii, is this what we're talking about -> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/384/ ?
[21:46] <mikemaccana> that they liked it? or that 'up' doesn't mean 'updates'?
[21:46] <dsargeant> is the objection becuase it looks like the application crashed icon?
[21:46] <kwwii> but let's get to the last topic and keep this meeting under and hour
[21:46] <kwwii> mgunes: yes! good start :-)
[21:47] <kwwii> mikemaccana is the originator of the idea
[21:47] <mikemaccana> Hey guys
[21:47] <laughing_man> i think the deviantart idea is a good one. There are allready tons of Linux screen shots all over that site from users who customize the desktop how they like it.
[21:47] <laughing_man> I think it's nice because it shows a full image and actually allows those who don't know all the techno-speak to see the product for themselves and weigh in on the details.
[21:47] <mikemaccana> The basic idea is that there's a wider community of creative commons artists that aren't currently ubuntu contriutors
[21:48] <laughing_man> I guess i'm just attracted to the graphical element of the idea.
[21:48] <kwwii> I think that reaching out to a group of artists like deviantArt is interesting
[21:48] <fruchtschwert> you should additionaly say which engine is to be used
[21:48] <kwwii> but there are several issues at hand
[21:48] <fruchtschwert> or several engines
[21:48] <laughing_man> kwwii, such as?
[21:48] <mikemaccana> We could engage them to make something great for 8.10 - and draw attention to ubuntu in that community as well
[21:48] <mgunes> the obvious objection would be the "too many cooks" syndrome
[21:48] <kwwii> making a theme and designing it over the course of years is more than can be dealt with in the course of one contest
[21:49] <mikemaccana> mgunes: I understand what you're saying, but it's a simple competition, with the intention that mark shuttleworth choose the winner
[21:49] <mikemaccana> (a few months out)
[21:49] <kwwii> beyond all the normal things which could go wrong there is a lot of responsiblity taken when making such decisions and they are made long term, not short term
[21:49] <mikemaccana> Deviantart are interested, and I have a meeting with them in the next few days
[21:49] <laughing_man> deviantart is brimming with talent.
[21:50] <mikemaccana> kwwii: Yep - per your suggestion I've limited the comp to wallpapers
[21:50] <kwwii> I would be more interested in seeing some parts of things done by such a process first
[21:50] <fruchtschwert> i think the people on the art list are not all brilliant designers .. they simply do their best, but with deviantart we could reach real professionals
[21:50] <kwwii> mikemaccana: comp?
[21:50] <mikemaccana> kwwii:competition.
[21:50] <mgunes> if this is to happen, we'd need to have a very well coordinated art direction process.
[21:50] <laughing_man> I agree with fruchtschwert...
[21:50] <mikemaccana> mgunes: Yup indeed
[21:50] <kwwii> mikemaccana: duh, right...english
[21:50] <laughing_man> you people have spent alot of time learning linux... artist like myself have spent alot of time learning design.
[21:51] <dsargeant> let our powers combine!
[21:51] <mikemaccana> kwwii: I've updated https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/deviantart-theme-competition
[21:51] <laughing_man> you may find the rare artist who is also a computer guru, but it's rare..
[21:51] <mikemaccana> after our last conversation
[21:51] <kwwii> mgunes: agreed, and in the end, with artwork, it is always a very tricky act to make things work well
[21:51] <mikemaccana> Entrants would submit an original wallpaper to DeviantArt, marking them with the tag 'ubuntu810'. Entries must be:
[21:51] <mikemaccana> * Beautiful.
[21:51] <mikemaccana> * Distinct.
[21:51] <mikemaccana> * CC licensed
[21:51] <mikemaccana> * Submitted by their artist
[21:51] <mikemaccana> * Work well as a wallpaper, with good contrast against white icon text, and not being too 'busy' to distract from the desktop contents
[21:51] <mikemaccana>  * Include a picture of the wallpaper on an Ubuntu desktop, with the entrant's preferred combination of icon / application / window themes.
[21:51] <mikemaccana> * Editable in Open Source tools (Inkscape or Gimp). This means Photoshop files are OK, but may not use layer effects.
[21:51] <mikemaccana> (suggest any other requirements in this meeting)
[21:52] <mgunes> kwwii, actually, as you'll probably confirm, we need a much better defined and communicated art direction process -in any case-.
[21:52] <kwwii> mikemaccana: that looks pretty good as far as I can see
[21:53] <fruchtschwert> how do other OSs make their themes .. where do they get their professionals ?
[21:53] <mikemaccana> kwwii: Do you know if mark wouldbe OK to judge a winner?
[21:53] <mgunes> mikemaccana, limiting to wallpaper is a good idea that will cut down on the broken hearts and fuss :)
[21:53] <laughing_man> fruchtschwert, they hire professional graphic designers.
[21:53] <mikemaccana> mgunes: Aye indeed, thank kwwii tho, that was his idea
[21:54] <laughing_man> they give them limits, and or a general theme.. and then sit back and see what they come up with
[21:54] <laughing_man> and veto or confirm from there.
[21:54] <laughing_man> it's the same process in all companies really..
[21:54] <mikemaccana> like fruchtschwert said, there's professional artists that use deviantart to promote themselves
[21:54] <laughing_man> mikemaccana, i disagree
[21:55] <mikemaccana> for example, if anyone likes dance music, the guy that does all the artwork for 'hed kandi'
[21:55] <laughing_man> i disagree completely.
[21:55] <sam7> only 6 wallpaper is a good number, and 3 GDM by default (Heron, elephant and one other / orange and blue)
[21:55] <mgunes> kwwii, I assume you'll be at UDS? do you plan to re-discuss the art-team spec?
[21:56] <laughing_man> sorry mike, i read that wrong.
[21:56] <mikemaccana> The artists get the benefit of having their work in front of 10 million-ish people, and the intention is to get some hardware prizes too
[21:56] <kwwii> mikemaccana: to be honest, I am not sure how Mark will react to the idea...I guess it depends on how it is presented and on which terms... I think that perhaps even something like our promise to "include the pic in Ubuntu with the inclusion in the default wallpaper selection" or such
[21:56] <sam7> why not using the starting music of ubuntustudio for the new LTS
[21:56] <mikemaccana> laughing_man: ok, no probs
[21:56] <kwwii> mikemaccana: and in any case I will have to discuss this with Mark to get the permission to think about it :-)
[21:57] <mikemaccana> kwwii: Sure. Please do. :^)
[21:57] <fruchtschwert> are we talking about themes or wallpapers ?
[21:57] <kwwii> mikemaccana: I'll stay in touch with you on this
[21:57] <kwwii> mgunes: yes, I will be at UDS
[21:58] <mikemaccana> fruchtschwert: comp is for wallpapers, but they must be submitted with a suggested set of other theme elements
[21:58] <kwwii> mikemaccana: I actually like that idea very much
[21:58] <mikemaccana> fruchtschwert: so we know what it looks like as a theme
[21:58] <kwwii>  as it offers more than just, what should the wallpaper be to the whole idea
[21:58] <gp[]> sincerely at the moment, I don't know if a deviantart contest is a good idea....I think it is not simple
[21:58] <laughing_man> first question they'll ask is
[21:59] <laughing_man> #1. do i need to have a complete theme laid out in a screen shot? or just have the elements fixed together with the wallpaper?
[21:59] <mikemaccana> kwwii: Asides from 'good contrast', 'not too busy', do we have any other stylistic guidelines?
[21:59] <dsargeant> inkscape used deviantart successfully for their about page, seems similar
[21:59] <sam7> each theme mus have its own icons (heron / elephant / other)
[21:59] <kwwii> laughing_man: naturally, all of that would be explained
[21:59] <laughing_man> well you didn't explain it well here :-P
[21:59] <mikemaccana> dsargeant: ah good - I might borrow some ideas from inkscape's cmp then
[22:00] <mikemaccana> That's probably helped inkscape get popular with artists in general
[22:00] <kwwii> mikemaccana: yeah, plenty...the technical limitations aside things have to fit all across the computer experience (boot to shutdown), certain ubuntu specific things are definitely desired, etc
[22:00] <kwwii> and sometimes just explaining all that is enough to ruin things :-D
[22:00] <dsargeant> mikemaccana: see http://inkscapers.deviantart.com/journal/16001755/
[22:01] <mikemaccana> kwwii: Does the theme need to reflect the 'linux for humans' concept in some way (I guess not since fela kuti doesn't)
[22:01] <fruchtschwert> can't ubuntu search for professional designers wich are known to be good and willing to do some work without money ?
[22:01] <fruchtschwert> that would be great but probably not easy
[22:01] <mikemaccana> fruchtschwert: DeviantArt is a great way for them to come to us.
[22:01] <kwwii> fruchtschwert: unrealistic
[22:01] <laughing_man> kwwii.. not really
[22:02] <sam7> fela kuti is werry good (i name it "heron" in this chan)
[22:02] <kwwii> mikemaccana: no, that is a general idea behind things but not too be taken too literaly
[22:02] <DanaG> Oh yeah, I have another idea about artwork:  have any of you seen the wallpaper-slideshow thing Fedora 8 does, where the wallpaper gradually fades over the day to match sunrise, noon, sunset, and night?  I'd love to see that implemented in Ubuntu.
[22:03] <sam7> what do you think about my propositions ?
[22:03] <kwwii> DanaG: yes we have looked into it and it does not look like we can do it for a couple of reason
[22:03] <kwwii> s
[22:03] <kwwii> my s ran on there :-(
[22:03] <sam7> werry good idea DanaG
[22:03] <mikemaccana> kwwii: Do we allow an unlimited palette (keep in mind the winner would still be determined by mark) or limit it to existing colors?
[22:03] <DanaG> Fedora doesn't use gnome-settings-daemon, I think.  I haven't any clue what they DO use, though.
[22:03] <kwwii> mikemaccana: nope, there would be a defined palette
[22:04] <fruchtschwert> fixed palette is better ..
[22:04] <kwwii> mikemaccana: I have a palette at hand which I can give you
[22:04] <kwwii> I need to make installable versions for inkscape and gimp
[22:04] <mikemaccana> kwwii: Thanks, please email.
[22:04] <laughing_man> kwii i'd like the palette as well.
[22:05] <kwwii> laughing_man: once I get the files ready I will post them to the list
[22:05] <sam7> Is it possible to do something for dualscreen ?
[22:05] <kwwii> and put them on the wiki
[22:05] <laughing_man> what list?
[22:05] <gp[]> yes, fixed palette is better for a contest
[22:05] <kwwii> laughing_man: the email list ;-)
[22:05] <mikemaccana> laughing_man: mailing list
[22:05] <laughing_man> okay i'll sign up for the mailing list
[22:05] <mikemaccana> I gather the palette is more orange than brown these days?
[22:05] <DanaG> Oh yeah, can somebody link me to a mailing-list discussion of that slideshow thing, if in fact there is one?
[22:05] <fruchtschwert> list https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[22:05] <kwwii> laughing_man: check out the wiki for all the iformation on joining the list, other stuff, etc
[22:06] <sam7> for exemple, 1 theme in 1 desktop, and an other 1 in the other desktop / screen
[22:06] <laughing_man> kwwii, i will and i'll have my students do the same.
[22:06] <dsargeant> laughing_man: extra credit for a winning design?
[22:07] <laughing_man> dsargent. A winning design for their portfolio is all the extra credit they need really.
[22:07] <gp[]> sam7: it's another question
[22:07] <kwwii> laughing_man: let me know if there is any way I can help with that :-)
[22:08] <sam7> is ti possible to make different theme and wallpaper for different desktop and for dualscreen ?
[22:08] <laughing_man> kwwii: just get me details about the palette and the specifications.
[22:08] <laughing_man> that you're looking for.
[22:08] <kwwii> sam7: dual screen situations are very hard to deal with
[22:08] <laughing_man> and a deadline.
[22:08] <fruchtschwert> sam7: don't think thats a good idea .. maybe a wallpaper, which spans across the screens
[22:08] <fruchtschwert> but theme should be unique
[22:08] <sam7> why ?
[22:09] <sam7> too difficult to make ?
[22:09] <sam7> i dont know how to make it
[22:09] <kwwii> laughing_man: 8.10 is October 2008 so sometime by the middle of September is the cut-off
[22:09] <andreasn> I'm sorry but I have to run off really soon
[22:10] <fruchtschwert> it has to be professional .. and not polarizing
[22:10] <kwwii> andreasn: thanks for stopping by
[22:10] <laughing_man> kwwii, i'm going to join the mailing list now.. :-)
[22:10] <fruchtschwert> and i think 2 themes are polarizing a bit
[22:10] <kwwii> I think that we are pretty much done here for tonight
[22:10] <fruchtschwert> is that the right word ?
[22:10] <kwwii> laughing_man: cool, you can ask pretty much anything there
[22:10] <kwwii> so, thanks everyone for coming
[22:11] <kwwii> I'll post minutes to the meeting in a bit
[22:11] <andreasn> kwwii: sorry for arriving a bit later
[22:11] <fruchtschwert> thank you for inviting the community
[22:11] <kwwii> next time will be more organized, I promise
[22:11] <DanaG> Oh hey, is the mailing list also available as a newsgroup?
[22:11] <sam7> the  minimum is one wallpaper for one desktop (i think)
[22:11] <andreasn> kwwii: have a date for the next meeting?
[22:11] <kwwii> andreasn: in one month
[22:11] <andreasn> ok, great
[22:12] <kwwii> see you soon
[22:12] <kwwii> night all
[22:12] <andreasn> I have to run! later!
[22:12] <laughing_man> okay i've signed up for the mailing list, and i'll look into it further later tonight.
[22:12] <andreasn> night!
[22:12] <mgunes> good night
[22:12] <laughing_man> night
[22:12] <sam7> the week en like today is good for me
[22:12] <fruchtschwert> good night
[22:12] <mikemaccana> bye all
[22:12] <gp[]> It has been a pleasure to be here
[22:12] <dsargeant> same here
[22:12] <gp[]> good night
[22:13] <sam7> on satursday at 21UTS like today is good i think
[22:13] <DanaG> Also, what were the reasons for not being able to do the slideshow thing?  (The mailing list isn't searchable, at least from the list-info page.)
[22:13] <sam7> im happy to be here today
[22:14] <Picklesworth> I have a vague recollection of GNOME working to have that functionality either for 2.22 or 2.24...
[22:14] <sam7> thank you Kwwii
[22:14] <Picklesworth> forget what they call it, though!
[22:14] <kwwii> erm, if anyone has a log of this, send it to me
[22:14] <DanaG> That Fedora Infinity thing is quite cool, and doesn't even require the extra system resources a video would.
[22:15] <kwwii> I forget how to get irssi to show me the last stuff for copying
[22:15] <sam7> if someone could tell me how to make icones, i will try to make one for GDM
[22:15] <mgunes> DanaG: http://www.nabble.com/ubuntu-art-f12728.html
[22:16] <gp[]> kwwii: i have the log
[22:17] <DanaG> Hmm, I meant, to use it with Thunderbird via nntp.
[22:17] <DanaG> Oh, but at least that gives a search.  Thanks!
[22:19] <DanaG> Hmm, that human-clearlooks-mod linked here reminds me of tangerines (the fruit):  http://www.nabble.com/Alternative-gtk-themes-td15898786.html
[22:20] <mgunes> DanaG, http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.artwork
[22:21] <gp[]> good night...good bay
[22:21] <kwwii> yepp, goodnight all
[22:25] <sam7> Someone could help me to make icones ?
[22:26] <bmk789> @schedule EST
[22:36] <ubotu> Schedule for EST: 12 Mar 16:00: Server Team | 19 Mar 16:00: Server Team | 26 Mar 16:00: Server Team


[12:46] <tgm4883> yes
[12:46] <tgm4883> williammanda the amd64 is for all 64 bit processors
[12:46] <tgm4883> and i have the 64 bit version installed on both my mythtv box and my regular desktop
[02:57] <rogue780|laptop> howdy all
[03:03] <tgm4883> howdy
[03:19] <williammanda> question about mysql.txt
[03:20] <williammanda> what is the best way to change the password?
[03:24] <rogue780|laptop> well here's what I understand
[03:25] <rogue780|laptop> you;ll have to get into mysql and change the password for mythtv in the mysql database
[03:25] <rogue780|laptop> then update the mysql.txt file with the password your chose
[03:27] <williammanda> i'm trying to use php
[03:27] <williammanda> but i can't get logged in
[03:27] <williammanda> i use to login as root and no password
[03:27] <williammanda> but it isn't working now
[03:28] <williammanda> i'm confused....
[03:30] <rogue780|laptop> :-\
[03:30] <rogue780|laptop> is mysql running?
[03:30] <williammanda> this changes the password for the root user for mysql....mysql -u root mysql
[03:30] <williammanda> yes it is running
[03:30] <rogue780|laptop> had to ask
[03:30] <williammanda> sure
[03:30] <williammanda> seems like there are two users being setup
[03:31] <williammanda> root & mythtv...correct?
[03:31] <rogue780|laptop> tey this
[03:31] <rogue780|laptop> sudo mysqladmin -u user password newpassword
[03:32] <rogue780|laptop> to change the password
[03:32] <rogue780|laptop> wow it's hard to  type when you're arm falls asleep
[03:34] <williammanda> sudo mysqladmin -u user password (type pasword or the password) newpassword?
[03:34] <tgm4883> if that doesn't work, you might try this
[03:35] <tgm4883> from this website
[03:35] <tgm4883> http://www.netadmintools.com/art90.html
[03:35] <tgm4883> To reset a root password that you forgot (using paths on our system):
[03:35] <tgm4883> [root@host root] #killall mysqld
[03:35] <tgm4883> [root@host root] #/usr/libexec/mysqld -Sg --user=root &
[03:35] <williammanda> i'm not sure i typed correctly
[03:35] <williammanda> hold on....I want to understand something....
[03:35] <williammanda> is there two users.....root & mythtv?
[03:36] <rogue780|laptop> william type password then in newpassword put the password you want
[03:36] <rogue780|laptop> yes
[03:36] <rogue780|laptop> root can do anything
[03:36] <rogue780|laptop> mythtv can do almost anything
[03:36] <williammanda> sudo mysqladmin -u mythtv password mythtv?
[03:36] <rogue780|laptop> and the whole mythtv program accesses mysql through the mythtv user
[03:37] <rogue780|laptop> that *should* work
[03:37] <rogue780|laptop> it works on slackware anyway
[03:37] <williammanda> says access denied
[03:37] <rogue780|laptop> hmm...might only work with root then...don't know why it would make a diff though
[03:39] <williammanda> i didn't change the root password
[03:39] <williammanda> i want to change the user mythtv's password to mythtv
[03:40] <williammanda> it generates a random password
[03:40] <williammanda> it would be easier when setting up the other backends
[03:41] <rogue780|laptop> hey to those super people who make the deb packages for mythtv....during setup, give us the option to make our own passwords!
[03:41] <rogue780|laptop> trust me, nobody is going to try to hack my mysql database. and if they do, it isn't the end of the world
[03:49] <williammanda> ok got it working
[04:00] <Daviey> rogue780|laptop, not sure i agree with you about people hacking mysql databases.  Reading the knoppmyth and an asterisk forum - many people had them hacked (and modified) because they were left as default passwords
[04:00] <rogue780|laptop> Daviey, those people weren't behind a decent firewall then
[04:01] <Daviey> true
[04:01] <Daviey> but you shouldn't need to be
[04:02] <Daviey> each machine within a lan should be as secure as one on the outside - if somebody get's access to one weak point - they have control over your whole network
[04:02] <rogue780|laptop> people should protect their network with a firewall anyway.
[04:03] <rogue780|laptop> lol
[04:03] <Daviey> rogue780|laptop, true - but with some applications it's necessary to have an exposed mysql database
[04:03] <Daviey> ie remote hosting of mythweb
[04:04] <rogue780|laptop> I dunno. if someone wants to hack my stuff then they will be able to. I'm not that uber leet at security
[04:04] <rogue780|laptop> I just wish I had the option to set my own password when the thing is installing
[04:05] <rogue780|laptop> as it is my mysql db can only be accessed from my network and from no external location
[04:06] <Daviey> rogue780|laptop, i agree - i suspect the next package will give you the option of default (random) or user entered
[04:07] <rogue780|laptop> well I've gotta get  to bed
[04:07] <rogue780|laptop> adios
[04:12] <williammanda> wow...rebooted the computer....and I get an error message at login....
[04:12] <williammanda> my resolution is so small I can't read it...
[04:12] <williammanda> i can't get logged in...
[04:12] <williammanda> where can i go to read the error message
[04:15] <tgm4883_laptop> /var/log/messages?
[05:08] <tgm4883_laptop> oh nooo
[05:09] <tgm4883_laptop> anyone seen superm1 around?
[05:17] <williammanda> anyone awake?
[05:17] <williammanda> problem during install...
[05:18] <williammanda> it won't let me partition the last part of the drive
[05:18] <williammanda> says I can't have the beginning befor the end
[05:19] <tgm4883_laptop> are you using the release?
[05:20] <williammanda> yes...superm's
[05:20] <williammanda> oh sorry
[05:20] <williammanda> 64 bit ver
[05:21] <williammanda> i've been trying this for over an hour now
[05:21] <tgm4883_laptop> but your using the release ver, not a beta right?
[05:21] <williammanda> yes the release
[05:21] <tgm4883_laptop> hm
[05:22] <williammanda> i just downloaded today
[05:22] <tgm4883_laptop> did you verify the cd?
[05:22] <williammanda> yes
[05:23] <tgm4883_laptop> hmm
[05:23] <tgm4883_laptop> strange
[05:23] <tgm4883_laptop> i had that problem with the beta, but not the release
[05:24] <williammanda> 64 bit?
[05:24] <williammanda> or 32 bit?
[05:25] <tgm4883_laptop> 64
[05:25] <tgm4883_laptop> you using the live or alternate cd?
[05:25] <williammanda> live
[05:26] <tgm4883_laptop> id say try alt
[05:28] <williammanda> can i just use the entire disk instead of the 3 partitions?
[05:30] <tgm4883_laptop> you could, but i dont think its recommended
[05:30] <tgm4883_laptop> you could partition it after the install
[05:31] <williammanda> is that hard?
[05:31] <williammanda> can i use the gui?
[05:31] <tgm4883_laptop> yea
[05:31] <tgm4883_laptop> you can use the gui
[05:32] <tgm4883_laptop> just use synaptic to install gparted
[05:32] <tgm4883_laptop> its not hard at all
[08:04] <tgm4883_laptop> is the setup for the auto mythfilldatabase in the frontend setup or the backend setup?
[08:20] <superm1> Frontend
[09:19] <imbrandon> superm1: heya
[09:19] <imbrandon> sup?
[09:20] <superm1> hey imbrandon
[09:21] <superm1> i just wanted to check in about the sending builds off to buildds
[09:21] <superm1> i couldnt stay up the other night, i had a final the next morning
[09:21] <imbrandon> yea i'm still working on that, ive been upgrading all the builds and working on the servers
[09:21] <imbrandon> it will probably be sunday night before i'm 100% done
[09:21] <superm1> ah okay
[09:22] <superm1> well i guess my big question is then, how are things going to be transferred?  some sort of dput SERVER thing?
[09:22] <superm1> and then scp back?
[09:22] <imbrandon> nfs
[09:22] <superm1> .... that would make a lot more sense :)
[09:23] <imbrandon> :)
[09:23] <imbrandon> the buildd will just monitor a file and dir on the myth server
[09:23] <superm1> ah okay
[09:23] <imbrandon> i'll fill you in when its all running 100% incase i change something a bit :)
[09:23] <superm1> sounds good
[09:24] <superm1> i've got one more final yet this week, and then i'll be able to put a lot of time in next week to getting content across the site yet too
[09:24] <imbrandon> cool
[09:24] <superm1> okay, bed time for me.  have a good one
[09:25] <imbrandon> l8tr
[11:17] <Daviey> imbrandon, ping
[12:11] <imbrandon> Daviey: pong
[01:01] <Daviey> imbrandon, did you receive the email from bendailey?
[01:22] <bendailey> morning
[01:25] <Daviey> morning
[01:25] <Daviey> I pinged imbrandon - he responded, but i wasn't quick enough in asking
[01:25] <Daviey> hopefully he will be back soon
[01:29] <bendailey> Daviey, He sent me the nameservers and they are now changed
[01:29] <Daviey> woo
[01:30] <bendailey> once he adds the A Records to the DNS Server all should be working
[01:30] <bendailey> brb
[02:32] <bendailey> imbrandon, ping
[03:08] <imbrandon> bendailey: pong
[03:08] <imbrandon> heya wasabi
[03:09] <imbrandon> bendailey: great i'll add the records in now, give me a few minutes
[03:12] <bendailey> great thanks
[03:19] <imbrandon> ok records added, now i need to make the servers awnser to it, one sec
[03:19] <imbrandon> ( www.ajaxdns.com has it pointing to the correct ip's now )
[03:20] <imbrandon> <IP_ADDRESS>  is the ip if you all want to add it to your host file prior to dns propigation
[03:20] <imbrandon> ( <IP_ADDRESS> for mail. )
[03:21] <imbrandon> wow i really need to hook you up with a new logo Daviey hehe
[03:21] <Daviey> :s
[03:21] <Daviey> logo?
[03:21] <imbrandon> ( and a new fav.ico hehe )
[03:21] <imbrandon> http://www.mythbuntu.org/files/logo.png
[03:21] <Daviey> hehe speak with superm1 bout that :)
[03:22] <imbrandon> bendailey: btw did you want access to the site to help edit it etc? how is all that gonna work out ?
[03:22] <Daviey> woo - the domain works :)
[03:22] <imbrandon> i'd rather keep ssh to myself and superm1 , but drupal admin access i have no problems with , its really superm1's call afaik
[03:23] <imbrandon> anyhow i'll be idle all day
[03:24] <imbrandon> Daviey: ( and all ) i'll be rebooting the box in about 2.5 hours , should be minimal downtime ( 20 minutes MAX , hopefully less )
[03:24] <imbrandon> for some maintance in the rack ( network cabling etc )
[03:24] <imbrandon> cool ?
[03:26] <Daviey> yep
[03:26] <Daviey> adding more ram?
[03:26] <Daviey> :)
[03:26] <imbrandon> actualy today just moving some cableing arround and reloading one of my other servers
[03:26] <imbrandon> :)
[03:27] <Daviey> imbrandon, whilst your here - whats up with ubuntuwire?
[03:27] <Daviey> jabber seems down?
[03:27] <imbrandon> btw mail wont work for that domain for 2 or 3 hours untill i update postfix to accept mail for mythbuntu.org ( and add the spam filtering for ubuntuwire.com in too at the same time )
[03:28] <imbrandon> Daviey: it is, thats the box i'm reloading, give it 5 minutes it will be back up
[03:28] <Daviey> woo - thought i forgot my passwd or something
[03:29] <imbrandon> Daviey: the service is starting now, the jabber should be much more stable after i finish today
[03:29] <imbrandon> jono!!!
[03:29] <imbrandon> :)
[03:29] <jono> hey
[03:29] <imbrandon> heya
[03:30] <imbrandon> hooked up the new webserver for da boyz
[03:30] <imbrandon> :)
[03:30] <imbrandon> jono: see my little hd-dvd audio clips ? hehe
[03:30] <jono> not yet
[03:30] <jono> just logged on
[03:30] <Daviey> imbrandon, was that festival?
[03:30] <imbrandon> hehe check my last post on planet :)
[03:30] <imbrandon> Daviey: at&t tts
[03:30] <Daviey> ahh
[04:10] <rogue780|laptop> howdy
[04:37] <tgm4883_> anyone here stream over firewire from a STB?
[04:44] <imbrandon> not personaly , STB ?
[04:45] <tgm4883_laptop> set top box
[04:46] <tgm4883_laptop> i know majoridiot does, but i haven't seen him around
[04:49] <rogue780|laptop> how do I keep the screensaver from blacking out the screen?
[04:50] <tgm4883_> turn it off :)
[04:51] <rogue780|laptop> how do I keep it from starting?
[04:51] <tgm4883_> just a sec, im looking it up
[04:52] <rogue780|laptop> thanx..for some reason once the screen dies it won't come back up...but if I pull up vnc I can view the screen through vnc, but it still doesn't reinitialize on the tv
[04:53] <tgm4883_> how are you connected to the tv?
[04:54] <Daviey> imbrandon, what do you think my new (beta) logo?
[04:54] <Daviey> that's my gimp impression
[04:57] <rogue780|laptop> through an rca cable
[04:57] <tgm4883_> rogue780|laptop, go here
[04:57] <tgm4883_> http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-22.html
[04:57] <tgm4883_> scroll to
[04:58] <tgm4883_> Screen goes blank but returns when mouse is moved or keyboard is used
[05:00] <rogue780|laptop> sweet thanks
[05:00] <rogue780|laptop> brb
[05:11] <imbrandon> Daviey: much better
[05:11] <Daviey> :)
[05:11] <Daviey> i'm no artist though - not quite happy with the mythtv logo
[05:11] <Daviey> but pleased i was able to extract the blue from offical logo
[05:12] <imbrandon> :)
[06:13] <Daviey> imbrandon, how's the bungee server?
[06:55] <superm1> Daviey, just got your mail
[06:56] <Daviey> :)
[06:56] <Daviey> I'm not artisit
[06:57] <Daviey> site's gone down?!
[06:57] <superm1> wha?
[06:57] <superm1> just worked fine
[06:57] <Daviey> pegasus.imbrandon still works
[06:57] <Daviey> but the domain seems to have stopped working my end
[06:58] <superm1> thats weird.  works fine for me.
[06:58] <superm1> i do like that logo though
[06:58] <superm1> i'm wondering if we should update the mythbuntu usplash artwork to use that instead
[06:59] <Daviey> could do
[06:59] <Daviey> tis probably my isp's dns
[06:59] <superm1> i'll add it to the todo list for after my last final is finished up tomorrow
[06:59] <superm1> to experiment a bit with the logo
[07:00] <Daviey> feel free
[07:00] <superm1> hope rogue780 wouldnt get mad about it though
[07:00] <Daviey> looked over your weekly build script
[07:00] <Daviey> why would he?
[07:01] <superm1> well he made the current mythbuntu-artwork-usplash, i just hope he wouldnt be offended by changing it a bit
[07:01] <superm1> i'll see what i come up with with it and then show him and everyone
[07:01] <Daviey> heck, it gone changed from my initial one
[07:01] <superm1> ya good point
[07:01] <superm1> okay so what did you think of the build script?
[07:01] <superm1> did it seem sensible to you?
[07:01] <Daviey> yeah
[07:02] <Daviey> although i really think the repo shouldn't be enabled by default on mythbuntu distro
[07:02] <superm1> oh no definately not
[07:02] <superm1> my only worry with it is that it will always be a higher version number than the one on ubuntu repositories
[07:02] <superm1> which may not be a good thing
[07:03] <Daviey> superm1, it needs to be a higher number - otherwise it won't update :)
[07:03] <superm1> lol
[07:03] <superm1> well i mean the upstream number will always be higher
[07:03] <superm1> rather than appending something like *weekly1
[07:03] <superm1> or something
[07:03] <Daviey> hmm... can be marked as 0.2199999
[07:03] <superm1> like that
[07:04] <superm1> well but then again it *will* always be a higher version than on the ubuntu repositories
[07:04] <superm1> so maybe its worthwhile to leave that way
[07:04] <Daviey> yeah suppose so
[07:05] <Daviey> but tbh the mythbuntu packages build from the universe packages anyway - so shouldn't make a difference
[07:05] <superm1> the only problem i'd forsee is a jump between feisty and gutsy for example
[07:05] <Daviey> as long as users know that the packages should be considered unstable and at own risk
[07:05] <superm1> its a bit unpredictable
[07:06] <Daviey> funny... the domain started working again - blame isp
[07:06] <superm1> haha
[07:07] <superm1> well so what were you thinking in terms of navigation at the top right up there?
[07:07] <superm1> i got a few things up that will be important I think
[07:07] <Daviey> agreed
[07:07] <superm1> but we can demote some of them to secondary links
[07:07] <superm1> and/or reorganize
[07:07] <superm1> add others
[07:08] <Daviey> i made a symlink to /var/cache/mythbuntu_build in the www folder
[07:08] <Daviey> just to make looking easyier
[07:09] <Daviey> should probably add a .htaccess file
[07:09] <superm1> well there is a symlink already for resultant builds
[07:09] <Daviey> didn't realise that
[07:09] <Daviey> i made $url/build
[07:10] <Daviey> brb
[07:10] <superm1> /var/www/files/packages -> /var/cache/mythbuntu_build/builds/
[07:10] <superm1> and that follows whats on the Automatic Weekly Builds Pages
[07:13] <tgm4883> superm1, thanks for recommending the mce remote to me, got it setup yesterday and it almost works great
[07:13] <superm1> "almost" ? :)
[07:13] <tgm4883> lol
[07:13] <tgm4883> yea
[07:13] <tgm4883> i knew about this feature but didn't think about it
[07:14] <tgm4883> was playing gears of war online when i was setting it up
[07:14] <tgm4883> and the power button turns off my xbox 360
[07:14] <superm1> lol
[07:14] <tgm4883> nothing a little white duct tape wont fix
[07:14] <superm1> i have a buddy with a 360 who noticed the same thing
[07:15] <tgm4883> i knew about that feature but didn't think about how its used with the 360 and all
[07:15] <tgm4883> works good though, seems more responsive than the hauppauge remote
[07:17] <superm1> seriously, one of the few things MS did right: hardware
[07:17] <tgm4883> yep
[07:17] <superm1> did you program your vol+/vol- and power buttons to your other devices?
[07:18] <superm1> the newer mceusb2 remotes support it - and its really really useful
[07:18] <tgm4883> haven't yet, i would need to hook up the ir transmitters right?
[07:18] <superm1> Nope
[07:18] <tgm4883> no?
[07:18] <superm1> the remote can go into learning mode for those 3 buttons
[07:18] <tgm4883> ah
[07:18] <tgm4883> probably in the included instructions that i didn't read
[07:20] <superm1> yup
[07:20] <tgm4883> hmm
[07:20] <superm1> i caught it by accident when i was flipping through them myself
[07:20] <tgm4883> does the ir transmitter work though?
[07:20] <superm1> yup
[07:20] <tgm4883> i may have to hook it up anyway
[07:20] <tgm4883> doog
[07:20] <tgm4883> good
[07:20] <superm1> its really finicky though
[07:21] <superm1> i've only got it working with my receiver
[07:21] <tgm4883> finicky as in?
[07:21] <superm1> doesnt work with my tv
[07:21] <tgm4883> ah
[07:21] <superm1> or other devices
[07:21] <tgm4883> i was hoping to have the windows button switch my different inputs on my tv
[07:21] <superm1> you may or may not be able to
[07:23] <tgm4883> hope so, then i can get rid of all my remotes
[07:23] <superm1> if its a samsung and you do happen to get it to work.... i need a copy of your lircd.conf remote for it
[07:23] <tgm4883> sorry, its a vizio
[07:24] <Rtaxerxes> soooo, superm1, when you got a sec, can you help me get lirc working on feisty with myth? I installed the default packages, put in my old lirc.conf file, but I get nada, and irw opens and closes instantly. But only when you have a sec
[07:24] <superm1> my sammie is mean TO ME
[07:24] <superm1> Rtaxerxes, sure,
[07:24] <superm1> where did you put your lircd.conf
[07:24] <superm1> /etc/lirc ?
[07:24] <superm1> or /etc
[07:25] <Rtaxerxes> etc/lirc
[07:25] <Rtaxerxes> and made a symlink to ~/.myth
[07:25] <Rtaxerxes> or woteva it is
[07:26] <tgm4883> i had a similar problem last night
[07:27] <tgm4883> but irw worked, so it must be different
[07:27] <superm1> thats your trouble
[07:27] <superm1> wait
[07:27] <superm1> you symlinked your lircd.conf to ~/.myth
[07:27] <superm1> are you mixing up your .lircrc and lircd.conf files
[07:27] <Rtaxerxes> don't think so
[07:27] <Rtaxerxes> lemme check
[07:28] <Rtaxerxes> ok, I have .lircrc in my home directory
[07:29] <Rtaxerxes> and no link in .mythtv
[07:29] <Rtaxerxes> might not have done the link yet, ooops
[07:30] <tgm4883> shouldn't .lircrc be in /etc/lirc?
[07:30] <superm1> Na
[07:30] <superm1> .lircrc goes in ~/
[07:30] <superm1> now that doesnt explain the irw issue
[07:30] <superm1> so your "lircd.conf" is in /etc/lirc
[07:30] <tgm4883> ah
[07:30] <superm1> correct?
[07:31] <Rtaxerxes> so current situation is lirc is installed, lircd.conf has been configured in /etc/lirc/lircd.conf
[07:32] <tgm4883> and lirc started correctly?
[07:32] <Rtaxerxes> and I have the same lircrc that worked in edgy in my home dir
[07:32] <superm1> you started lirc from the init script, correct
[07:32] <superm1> sudo /etc/init.d/lirc start
[07:32] <Rtaxerxes> lirc starts fine, but irw craqshes immediately
[07:32] <superm1> does lircd crash with it?
[07:32] <tgm4883> did you reboot?
[07:33] <Rtaxerxes> just done a lirc restart, no errors
[07:33] <tgm4883> did you check dmesg for modules that aren't loading?
[07:33] <Daviey> superm1, how did the lirc packages you were doing turn out?
[07:34] <superm1> Daviey, the lirc modules aren't going to be directly added to the kernel it seems, because another team is going to take over that
[07:34] <superm1> so my patch wont go into gutsy (unless they dont finish in time)
[07:34] <superm1> then i'll poke BenC to put it in anyway
[07:35] <superm1> Rtaxerxes, also did you modify /etc/lirc/hardware.conf in any ways?
[07:35] <Daviey> superm1, they should make the general kernel for gutsy?
[07:35] <Rtaxerxes> hmmm, can't remember, lemme check
[07:35] <Daviey> who is dealing with it?
[07:36] <superm1> let me check and see what the name of that team was
[07:36] <tgm4883> Rtaxerxes, did you check your modules per the guide?
[07:36] <superm1> Daviey, the Ubuntu Media Center Team
[07:36] <Rtaxerxes> I think I commented out lircmd
[07:37] <superm1> see bug 69534, the last comment
[07:37] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 69534 in linux-source-2.6.20 "Add lirc to linux-source build tree" [Low,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/69534
[07:37] <Rtaxerxes> hmmm which guide?
[07:38] <superm1> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Install_Lirc_Feisty
[07:38] <Daviey> Rtaxerxes, that guide is the *only* one that got it working for me
[07:39] <Rtaxerxes> Cause I ran the ubuntuguide.com guide in edgy to run a serial transmitter and it didn't work.
[07:39] <Rtaxerxes> Do I need to do all the kernel modules for feisty too?
[07:41] <superm1> Rtaxerxes, yes you do
[07:41] <superm1> if you havent rebuilt your kernel modules in feisty, things wont work
[07:41] <superm1> ubuntuguide.org doesnt have an entry on lirc afaik
[07:42] <Rtaxerxes> aaargh, that's a downer for feisty. Everything else was so smooth...
[07:42] <Rtaxerxes> ok, i'll do it
[07:42] <Rtaxerxes> go Gutsy
[07:43] <superm1> Rtaxerxes, that above bug was filed with ample time for my patch to build lirc on the kernel build, but it got overlooked by the kernel guys unfortunately
[07:43] <superm1> and by the time they came to it, it was too ltae
[07:44] <Rtaxerxes> so maybe in Gutsy, they'll pay attention. Anything I can do? Whine on any forums?
[07:45] <Daviey> superm1, how frustrating!  I feel the same with mythtv-usplash-theme.  Don't know why that didn't make feisty/universe
[07:45] <Daviey> corrected all the points raised
[07:47] <Rtaxerxes> where is this splash you been talking about? Can I have a look?
[07:47] <tgm4883> and the slight overlook on the pcHDTV 5500
[07:48] <superm1> Rtaxerxes, http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/mythbuntu-artwork-usplash-0704250310/mythbuntu-artwork-usplash-0.1/usplash_1024_768.png
[07:48] <superm1> Daviey, the thing is you have to stay on top of things at the last minute like that
[07:49] <superm1> which is hard to do :)
[07:49] <superm1> tgm4883, you mean the cx88_dvb issue?
[07:49] <tgm4883> yea
[07:49] <superm1> well we knew about that before feisty release, but the guys working on it didnt have a fix for it by then
[07:50] <superm1> the v4l-dvb guys
[07:51] <tgm4883> ah
[07:51] <tgm4883> isn't much of a problem anyway
[07:51] <tgm4883> really minor fix
[07:51] <tgm4883> pretty easy
[07:52] <superm1> but pretty annoying nonetheless :)
[07:52] <Daviey> whats the work around?
[07:53] <superm1> adding cx88_dvb to /etc/modules
[07:53] <Daviey> ahh
[07:56] <superm1> Daviey, i made the logo into a favicon for the site too
[07:56] <Daviey> :)
[07:56] <Daviey> imbrand0n whinged about that aswell :)
[07:57] <superm1> haha
[07:57] <Daviey> still think the logo needs something
[07:57] <Daviey> it's a nuisance that the mythtv logo isn't more square
[07:58] <superm1> did you do that a svg
[07:58] <superm1> or xcf?
[07:58] <superm1> that can be better scaled than a png
[07:58] <Daviey> i thought about the mythtv logo going directly over the top but the 'pips' on the ubuntu logo are in the way
[07:58] <Daviey> yeah xcf
[07:59] <superm1> here maybe i should scp the xcf that is currently used for the usplash
[07:59] <Daviey> but the ubuntu logo came from a png
[07:59] <superm1> and you can play with it a bit
[08:00] <Daviey> thats the first file i have DCC'd over IRC in years!
[08:00] <superm1> lol
[08:03] <superm1> its probably best to scale it up to 1024x768 initially and then scale down only for the resultant images
[08:04] <Daviey> okay
[08:04] <Daviey> hmm
[08:04] <Daviey> do you know what font he used?
[08:04] <superm1> na
[08:04] <superm1> and he isnt on gtalk right now, so cant easily find out
[08:04] <Daviey> sudo apt-get install ttf-ubuntu-title   :)
[08:05] <bendailey> is there a default package list around for mythbuntu?
[08:05] <Daviey> not quite yet
[08:05] <bendailey> ok
[08:05] <bendailey> how thin are you attempting to make it?
[08:06] <Daviey> their won't be an offical mythbuntu package until gutsy :(
 this thin
[08:06] <Daviey> :)
[08:06] <bendailey> don't you plan on releasing isos before gutsy?
[08:07] <Rtaxerxes> superm1: done the guide, but irw doesn't read the remotes, or anything. I haven't rebooted yet tho.
[08:07] <superm1> Rtaxerxes, when you modprobe your lirc modules, you should see them show up in dmesg
[08:07] <superm1> bendailey, the big thing we are trying to do is keep packages that arent put in multiverse/universe minimal
[08:08] <superm1> so this artwork will go into universe
[08:08] <superm1> and hopefully our ubiquity will as well
[08:09] <Rtaxerxes> I got lirc_dev: IR_remote control driver registered at major 61
[08:09] <superm1> whats your other module?
[08:10] <superm1> lirc_mceusb, lirc_mceusb2, lirc_serial etc
[08:10] <Rtaxerxes> lirc_i2c no version for "lirc_unregister_plugin" found: kernel tainted
[08:10] <superm1> i2c okay
[08:10] <superm1> thats fine then, your modules are loading
[08:11] <Rtaxerxes> also got: lirc_i2c: chip found @ 0x71
[08:11] <Rtaxerxes> lirc_dev lirc_register_plugin: sample rate: 10
[08:12] <superm1> okay to i2c is working then
[08:12] <bendailey> can somebody give mission statement/goal/timeline for the project? or a url?
[08:12] <superm1> so now after restarting lircd, things still dont work
[08:12] <Rtaxerxes> well irw doesn't read anything, and that is first step, right?
[08:13] <superm1> https://launchpad.net/mythbuntu
[08:13] <superm1> well you restarted lircd after loading the modules though right?
[08:13] <Rtaxerxes> yep
[08:13] <Rtaxerxes> did a killall lircd
[08:14] <superm1> so after irw crashes, do you still have that lircd process alive?
[08:14] <superm1> or does it die too
[08:14] <Rtaxerxes> irw doesn't die
[08:15] <superm1> okay  - so progress then
[08:15] <superm1> it was dying before
[08:16] <Rtaxerxes> yep
[08:16] <Daviey> superm1, dcc it back?
[08:16] <superm1> sure
[08:16] <superm1> i should be able to on campus no troubles
[08:16] <Daviey> slightly different - i put the 'm' inside
[08:16] <superm1> hm yea i can see
[08:16] <Daviey> and removed it from the title
[08:17] <Daviey> what do you think?
[08:17] <superm1> well now i'm thinking that bottom part might be unnecessary
[08:17] <superm1> the powered by stuff
[08:17] <Daviey> i need to cook, be back in an hour or so
[08:18] <superm1> ok
[08:21] <superm1> bendailey, whats your email, i'll add you onto the website to help with content if you'd like
[08:21] <superm1> pm me it
[08:52] <DaveMorris> evening guys
[08:52] <Daviey> hey DaveMorris
[08:53] <Daviey> This is DaveMorris - he's a fellow ubunter, and wants to help with the mythbuntu effort
[08:53] <DaveMorris> I'm willing to help in the testing stages mainly
[08:54] <Daviey> (such a warm welcome, eh?)
[08:54] <Daviey> superm1, ping
[08:55] <superm1> hey Daviey
[08:55] <superm1> Hi DaveMorris
[08:55] <superm1> sorry guys i need to run and grab some lunch
[08:55] <superm1> i'll speak more later on
[08:55] <superm1> DaveMorris, glad to have you jumping onboard
[08:55] <Daviey> superm1, had a word with juski earlier.  He is doing a presentation at 'Lug Radio Live' - he's going to plug us :)
[08:56] <superm1> hell yea :)
[08:56] <Daviey> catch you later superm1
[09:28] <Andyman53> Hey all
[09:28] <Andyman53> i have a quick question....my guide data doesn't match up to my channels....the guide data is two channels off from the actual channels
[09:28] <Andyman53> what do i do about that?
[09:30] <DaveMorris> #mythtv-users might be more helpful
[09:30] <Andyman53> heh
[09:30] <Andyman53> didn't see that chan
[09:30] <Andyman53> thx a mill
[09:30] <DaveMorris> I think its hidden