[20:06] <pepee> hi. how could I know if a patch will be merged in saucy? I had this problem:  https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60182#c33 , which has been fixed, and I don't know very well about the release cycle in ubuntu
[20:07] <bryce> pepee, you'd want to have an SRU bug with that fix filed in launchpad, and targeting saucy.
[20:08] <bryce> pepee, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[20:09] <pepee> hmm, I was asking in the #ubuntu+1 : do I have to use ubuntu-bug? I'm using a custom build + lots of PPAs...
[20:10] <bryce> using ubuntu-bug is a good idea but you don't have to.  But if you don't, make sure to manually add the tag 'saucy' to the bug.
[20:10] <pepee> ok, thank you, I will do it manually
[20:11] <bryce> the main thing is you need the SRU Bug Template (sect 3.1), and link to the upstream bug
[20:12] <bryce> if you are skilled at packaging, you can also backport the patch to the package; otherwise you'll need to solicit a maintainer (like maybe tjaalton) to help on that part, if it's needed.
[20:13] <pepee> no, I don't really know how to package things...
[20:14] <pepee> I just followed instructions to apply the patch
[20:15] <bryce> ok no prob, that'll be easy for a maintainer.  The test verification you did, and filling in the lp bug with sru bits will be great help.  they can handle the rest when they get a chance.
[20:25] <pepee_> sorry, I got disconnected :/
[20:25] <bryce> pepee, I just said, ok no prob, that'll be easy for a maintainer.  The test verification you did, and filling in the lp bug with sru bits will be great help.  they can handle the rest when they get a chance.
[20:26] <pepee> ok, thanks
[20:30] <tjaalton> for saucy it'll be easier as it's not released yet
[20:39] <tjaalton> so no need for the sru stuff imo, just file a bug or search for a dupe
[21:05] <pepee> ok, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-ati/+bug/1232557
[21:06] <pepee> should I add/edit something?
[21:14] <bryce> pepee, looks fine.  follow up next week if you don't see progress made
[21:14] <pepee> ok, thank you bryce and tjaalton


[00:06] <mykhyggz> so I want to install this next to my windoze and ubuntu lts. I have free partition sda8. mounted is /dev/sda1 on /boot/efi -- so when I get the option to do "something else" do I just accept boot on /dev/sda and select sda8, then? Overwriting my work install won't be okay... ;-)
[00:25] <mykhyggz> Well, no one to hold my hand. Fair enough, I take my chances, then. Cheers!
[00:44] <mykhyggz> well, I totally chickened out -- I can't see what I'm to do to be sure I'm installing on a free partition and not b0rking my work installations. I have an ext4 ready, /boot exists, swap exists. I shouldn't need to format or partition... :(
[01:07] <mykhyggz> It seems there must be a way to just ensure install writes to a particular partition, so I can boot to studio without touching other OSs.
[01:08] <Eickmeyer> mykhyggz: Using the "something else" is exactly how to ensure it writes to a particular partition.
[01:09] <Eickmeyer> If you need to do partitioning ahead of time, try using gparted.
[01:09]  * Eickmeyer doesn't like ubiquity's built-in partitioner
[01:10] <mykhyggz> That's what it looks like. So highlight that partition -- and go? It is already ready. Yeah, I guess that's what is unnerving me -- I already prepped with gparted.
[01:10] <mykhyggz> But just highlight the partition I want, and click install should work? It will pick up the swap and /boot from what is already there?
[01:10] <Eickmeyer> No, make sure that it is going to use the partition (edit, click Use As), and make sure it assigns root (/) to that partition.
[01:11] <Eickmeyer> No, you'll have to manually assign /boot to that partition if you wish to use the same /boot.
[01:11]  * Eickmeyer recommends against that unless it's /boot/efi
[01:11] <mykhyggz> it is efi, yes.
[01:12] <Eickmeyer> Then yes. Really, it should automatically use the existing /boot/efi and swap partitions. Everything else must be manually assigned from that screen.
[01:12] <mykhyggz> so select three, and assign three partitions for / /boot and swap? Never seen this interface before.
[01:12]  * mykhyggz sez Thanks!
[01:12] <Eickmeyer> You're welcome. Good luck.
[01:13] <mykhyggz> I'll need it. Cheers!
[01:14] <Eickmeyer> mykhyggz: This isn't unique to Ubuntu Studio, so if you don't get a response here in the future, try #ubuntu.
[01:14] <mykhyggz> Thanks, will do.
[02:08] <mykhyggz> Eickmeyer: thanks again, I have new grub entries and still able to boot into my work. Now to go play with my realtime kernel!
[02:10] <Eickmeyer> mykhyggz: Have fun! Just understand that we don't have a realtime kernel, but a lowlatency one with the PREEMPT_RT patch in place.
[02:10] <mykhyggz> Ah, right. It is still an improvement though, from what I saw when testing.
[02:11] <studiobot> Austin Erlandson was added by: Austin Erlandson
[02:12] <Eickmeyer> mykhyggz: Yes. An actual realtime kernel does no good on hardware that doesn't support it, which is very, very limited to OEM application, such as consoles and what-not. Even if a kernel claims to be rt, it's likely only lowlantency and simply has the PREEMPT_RT flag set.
[02:15]  * mykhyggz sees the fog of distant memories clearing a bit. Been a while since patching kernels or the like.
[02:15] <mykhyggz> Thanks again, gonna go play now. ;-)
[02:24] <studiobot> <Austin Erlandson> Hey again, so I'm trying to run the "try Ubuntu Studio from us stick" option in grub but I'm pretty sure it's not setup to work with a 4k panel maybe? I'm seeing some errors in the dbus(?) output when I select that option... … I'm trying to install on an X1 Extreme. Any tips?
 @Austin Erlandson [Hey again, so I'm trying to run the "try Ubuntu Studio from us stick" option in …], Yeah, that stumped me in one fell swoop.
 I'd say get on IRC and check the #xubuntu or #ubuntu channels.
[02:27] <studiobot> <Austin Erlandson> Okay no worries! Thanks for the forward 😊 … I'm a guitarist turn dev so I never know what language to speak when :)
 Yeah. Ubuntu Studio _is_ Ubuntu, so those channels are helpful. Xubuntu when dealing with the UI, and Ubuntu when dealing with the underlying system.
[02:28] <studiobot> <Austin Erlandson> Perfect 👌
[03:08] <mykhyggz> Well, so far, I was running the software update and my screen went blank. Had to power off. I notice there are two boot options, ubuntu "low latency" and plain ubuntu. No doubt the preemption disallowed the screen to wake up? So, better to do maintenance in the "plain" option?
[03:08] <mykhyggz> Anyway, turned of the screen blanking for when I'm on AC power.
[03:09] <mykhyggz> And finishing the updates with no "low-latency" option. Does this make some sense, I wonder? ;-)
[03:10] <mykhyggz> Oh, well, just making a public note then. I'll figure it out eventually.
[03:26] <Eickmeyer> Left before I could respond.
[03:26] <Eickmeyer> (it's the exact same kernel)
 Using 16.04. Duel boot with Windows 7 ( on sepRE physical disk).I am in recovery mode and whatever it has done it hasn't fixed the problem. I have an (initrams) prompt. And it is suggesting I do a manual FSCK. I am not clued up about commands. Any suggestions apart from hard reboot?
 Had similar problem yesterday and recovery appeared to fix booting.
 I had to do a hard reboot earlier yesterday and that seemed to cause the boot to fail after I chose Ubuntu on the Grub menu.
 Just searching online and now using a US DVD disk to check errors.
 I am back into Ubuntu Studio. I used the Live DVD and terminal to do a manual fsck after reading up online using my phone.  … sudo fsck /dev/sdb1 … That appears to have sorted it.  … I will replace 16 04 with 18.10 soon.
 Erich, removing calf-ladspa did not help. Thanks for the suggestion though.
 @Duke [Erich, removing calf-ladspa did not help. Thanks for the suggestion though.], Hey, it was worth a shot. That's the most common problem the Ardour devs tell me about.
 I really think that it is a problem running linux on a Mac.  I had the same problem with Ardour in Manjaro linux. I'm going to test Fedora from a USB flash drive, to see if Ardour in Fedora does the same thing.


 I was typing an email and I kept hitting tab to complete typing referring (I had only typed refer)
[18:19] <RoAkSoAx> itnet7: ping
[18:48] <DammitJim> do you guys know why while I'm doing an rsync the system could be skipping files?
[18:48] <DammitJim> is there a log the rsync creates?
[19:05] <mhall119> DammitJim: did you specify files to be excluded?
[19:05] <mhall119> is it not following symlinks?
[19:06] <mhall119> do you not have read-permissions for those files?
[19:21] <reya276> hey I was reading a couple of articles about Unity. There are some folks whom are saying is unusable. To be this seems weird because I have been using it since last week Friday and it run and works pretty well.
[19:22] <mhall119> reya276: when they say it's unusable, read it as "It's different from what I'm used to and change scares me"
[19:23] <mhall119> people said the same about moving window controls to the left
[19:23] <mhall119> turns out, our brains aren't hard-wired to a specific computer interface, and we can all adapt fairly easily
[19:24] <reya276> then there are those stating that they are going to move away from ubuntu and stuff like that. Seriously I'm starting to get pretty disgusted with some
[19:24] <reya276> of these Linux users, I believe and feel that thus far this has been the best Linux distribution ever.
[19:24] <mhall119> reya276: don't worry too much about it, there are always some people that say that about every change in every cycle
[19:25] <mhall119> honestly though, it shouldn't be a problem that people switch distros, that's the whole point of having multiple distros
[19:25] <DammitJim> mhall119, no, not at all: rsync -rtvx --delete /opt/pics /media/backup/
[19:25] <mhall119> if Fedora fits their needs better, then they should switch.
[19:25] <reya276> Also here is a Guy(Mark) whom is pretty much putting up the cash for all of this, while creating jobs and bringing people together in the process and all people
[19:25] <reya276> can do is complaint and be selfish
[19:26] <mhall119> DammitJim: I'm not sure then, rsync isn't my strong suit
[19:26] <mhall119> reya276: like I said, don't worry too much about it
[19:27] <mhall119> some people will leave for other distros, others will came into Ubuntu because of Unity.  Distro usage is and should be fluid
[19:27] <reya276> oh I'm not worried its more of me being angry about it.   The best we can do is not let that kind of thing side-track us from making Ubuntu what we want it to be
[19:30] <reya276> what I don't understand is what part of Unity is not usable? I mean they don't give any specifics
[19:31] <mhall119> reya276: like I said, it's just that it's different
[19:31] <reya276> so the damn thing does not run on a P4 and you need a good graphics card so what
[19:31] <mhall119> it probably will run on a P4, and all you need is something with an OpenGL capable chipset
[19:32] <mhall119> my EeePC 701, with it's 900MHz Celeron can run Unity, though it can be slow at times
[19:33] <reya276> well I see it like this if it is going to attract more people and get more products/drivers and mainstream software to be available for Ubuntu/Linux then I'm all for it.
[19:34] <govatent> i just loaded ubuntu on a 2ghz celeron with 512 mb of ddr1 ram. runs ok. nvidia 32 mb geforce 440 agp gpu
[19:35] <reya276> well but for something like that it would be better to use Elementary OS or Mint and it is still Debian/Ubuntu based
[19:35] <mhall119> Unity isn't really heavy, and offloading more to the GPU frees the CPU for better uses
[19:36] <mhall119> remember, Unity is just an extra Compiz plugin
[19:36] <reya276> really?
[19:37] <mhall119> pretty much
[19:37] <reya276> wow
[19:37] <mhall119> it's a pretty complex and powerful compiz plugin
[19:37] <mhall119> but it's not like it's a whole new desktop UI
[19:37] <mhall119> it's still mostly Gnome
[19:37] <crashsystems> yeah, doing it all in compiz seemed kinda weird, but I'm liking the results
[19:37] <reya276> so what happens if compiz stops working then the entire system goes?
[19:38] <crashsystems> reya276: compiz restarts
[19:38] <mhall119> reya276: I think, for 11.04 anyway, you fall back to the "classic" gnome desktop if Compiz won't run
[19:38] <reya276> ah ok
[19:38] <mhall119> right, what crashsystems said, compiz will restart if it's just a crash
[19:38] <reya276> I have it on my laptop now and it runs fairly well
[19:38] <mhall119> in 11.10, Unity 2D will be the fallback if you can't run Compiz
[19:39] <reya276> well it actually runs great
[19:40] <reya276> is 11.04 an LTS version?
[19:40] <crashsystems> I think 12.04 will be lts
[19:41] <crashsystems> they probably would not put a brand new gnome shell on an LTS
[19:42] <reya276> oh so 10.04 is going to last until 12.04 is released then
[19:42] <reya276> because that is what I'm running on all of our servers here
[19:43] <reya276> except for our email server which is at 8.04
[19:43] <crashsystems> IIRC there is some overlap with LTSes so you don't have to switch the moment a new one comes out. Also, server LTS lasts longer than desktop LTS
[19:44] <reya276> yeah, I'm not using the actual server versions, my boss wants the damn desktop on them
[19:45] <crashsystems> o_O
[19:45] <crashsystems> well you could install the server version and then apt-get install a gnome desktop
[19:46] <crashsystems> I think there is a meta package for a minimal gnome install, so you don't waste space on things like openoffice etc
[19:46] <reya276> so that non-savvy linux users can use it just like if they were using windows, which I think it sucks, I told him we can use Lanscape or Webmin to manage them but it fell on death ears
[19:46] <crashsystems> that way could could have a gui and a longer support lts, plus server kernel
[19:47] <reya276> gnome or Ubuntu desktop?
[19:47] <crashsystems> gnome. the ubuntu-desktop package will install gnome and all the stuff that comes on the default desktop cd
[19:47] <crashsystems> gnome will just give you X and a basic gnome desktop
[19:48] <reya276> yeah I had no idea you could do that, but its all the same thing with the exception of not having the cloud services
[19:48] <crashsystems> then you selectively install the things you need
[19:49] <crashsystems> well, the server kernel is different from the desktop kernel, and a desktop install has lots of stuff you don't need, even if you do need a gui
[19:49] <reya276> ah ok, that is what I will do then in the future
[19:49] <crashsystems> I think the package is gnome-minimal or some such, but I don't have ubuntu in front of me ATM
[19:50] <reya276> well me personally I have gotten used to using webmin to do everything or CLI
[19:52] <reya276> the one thing I have noticed about the desktop version as opposed to the server version is that for example if you want to add multiple IP addresses to your network connection it is easier to do it in the desktop version
[19:53] <reya276> since all you got to do is right-click and modify the connection and just add IPs as oppose to finding the network config file and all that
[19:54] <crashsystems> now that I'm in web security and have played with webmin a bit, I cringe to think of all the vulnerabilities webmin likely has.
[19:54] <reya276> so if you have windows admins whom have never touched a Linux server that would be the best way to introduced them to it
[19:55] <reya276> right but webmin is never used on external IP addresses
[19:56] <crashsystems> having it internal only helps, but it does not solve the problem
[19:57] <crashsystems> internal only IP would not prevent XSS or CSRF
[20:06] <reya276> yes that is true
[20:07] <reya276> I wonder what is the difference between landscape and webmin
[20:08] <crashsystems> my job has made me much more paranoid about the internet
[20:09] <crashsystems> IIRC landscape focuses on clustered package management and reporting, plus is ubuntu spcific, while webmin is more generalized, multi-distro and is not focused on clustering.
[20:10] <reya276> well but we have configured webmin in a clustered enviornment
[20:10] <reya276> as it has the capability of doing so
[20:11] <crashsystems> it has some clustering capabilities, but thats not its strong point, and it wouldn't scale very well


[07:10] <MrNumber3isme> Hello room
[07:12] <MrNumber3isme> I was hoping this would be a good place to ask for help. I Have a fresh install of Xubuntu 16.04, and I'm trying to get my broadcom chip working.
[07:13] <MrNumber3isme> after following various guides I found on Google, I think I may have screwed up.
[07:15] <MrNumber3isme> Another problem I face is that since I can't get my computer's internet to work, I'm in this chat on my phone, so I can't copy command outputs.
[08:22] <HappyHobo> I realize you can't support other derivatives of ubuntu that use xfce as their choice of DE.  I just want some input.  I want to know why I should use xubuntu over those derivativesl  One thing I do know is community support.  I want other things like features, bells and whistles.
[08:23] <HappyHobo> It's easy to tell me how wonderful something is.  I want to be shown why it is so wondermous.
[08:27] <HappyHobo> I'm not trolling.  I just want to know some bells and whistles.  I want to see its wow factor, its character, its joie de vive.  I'm a former ubuntu mate use and it was functional and sturdy.  There was nothing to ooh and ahh about it.
[08:28] <HappyHobo> You have to confess Chalet has a lot of oooh and ahh.
[08:29] <HappyHobo> Does it have a style changer?  Does it offer classic and modern versions of styles and themes?  How many backgrounds does it come with?
[08:30] <xncn> Well, what are you looking for specifically? One of the big things that attracts a lot of users, including myself, is that it's a very lightweight distro and it's no challenge to get up and running without throwing a ton of extras at you.
[08:30] <xncn> But yes, you can theme it and change styles.
[08:31] <xncn> That's what's nice about it, as far as xfce and ubuntu goes.
[08:33] <HappyHobo> Does it have anything other than simple just adequate appearance setting gui?
[08:35] <HappyHobo> How many different backgrounds does it have?  Others have ubuntu too as an excellent solid base.  It's funny though that I say that because at one time I thought ubuntu destroyed Mepis when Mepis switched from Debian to ubuntu.  I was wrong.
[08:36] <xncn> As far as "out of the box" goes, you're going to be looking at a built in theme manager, which includes what you would expect; fonts, window/panel themes, icons, all that good stuff. Nothing over the top compared to other distros, like I said, it's made to be efficient and lightweight.
[08:36] <xncn> iirc ~20 "default" backdrops but you can easily add more, it actually has quite a bit off the get go as far as changing things to your likings
[08:37] <xncn> obviously this includes setting up panel bars, getting a dock going, etc.
[08:38] <xncn> I'm honestly not a big fan of straight ubuntu, which is why I use this distro. Gives you the xfce lightweighted-ness.
[08:38] <HappyHobo> http://i.imgur.com/7BmJgBZ.png  I'm not trying to troll, provoke or otherwise advertise another distribution in y'all's channel.  I simply want to see if there is anything like this.
[08:40] <xncn> Not stock, no, but you can configure it to look like that. There's pretty active themes for the xfce environment.
[08:40] <HappyHobo> The problem is Chalet at this point has no p2p support and it downloads from sourceforge which takes a fortnight.
[08:41] <HappyHobo> I had to shave twice waiting for it to download.  I went through two pots of coffee sitting up and restarting the downlod when it failed.
[08:41] <xncn> Like I asked earlier, are you just looking for something that looks nice and clean? What are you running it on, etc. What will you be doing?
[08:41] <xncn> I actually was considering Chalet, I'm surprised there isn't p2p support for it.
[08:42] <HappyHobo> I'm running it on an Acer Asprire One A000532H with an atom n450 processor, 1 gig of ram, a 10 inch screen and a 160 gig harddrive.
[08:42] <xncn> Ah okay, that would make sense looking into Xubuntu then.
[08:43] <xncn> Honestly I was going to say Mint but I'm not a huge fan.
[08:43] <xncn> It's great stock, but there's other issues with it that make it not worth it imo.
[08:43] <HappyHobo> Pidgin calls these channels rooms.  I went into their room and I was the only one there.  The echo was absolutely incredible.
[08:43] <xncn> Mint's?
[08:44] <HappyHobo> You know which distribution brought me to enjoy xfce and not feel that it was a cheap gnome knockoff.  No, Chalet's room on irc.freenode.net
[08:44] <xncn> That's surprising
[08:45] <HappyHobo> MX15 had this incredible easy to use intuitive easy to use vertical setup.  I never used xfce before because it was so similar to gnome.  I was blown away.  I think everyone should go vertical.
[08:46] <HappyHobo> http://postimg.org/image/54f7iatwb/  This is my chalet setup.
[08:47] <HappyHobo> Oh it's sfw, landscape background.
[08:47] <xncn> Nice. You could actually get something like that going pretty easily, honestly.
[08:49] <xncn> Not a fan of vertical myself, been on OSX too long haha
[08:49] <HappyHobo> Yep, flip it, use the move feature of preferences and take everything from the top and put it at the bottom order in your idea of logical placement.  Use the traditional paradigm and place the clock at the opposite end of the panel.  Remove the labels from the window buttons.  Increase the panel to 40 to 50 pixels wide.  Bam you've gone vertical.  Do a happy dance.  Get used to it and enjoy.
[08:49] <HappyHobo> I
[08:49] <HappyHobo>  Is OSX vertical?
[08:50] <xncn> It isn't. I mean, you can set it up to be that way but everything is still based top side.
[08:50] <xncn> Ultimately, which you can't change. Pretty annoying.
[08:51] <xncn> And then they auto-change the transparency on you and all that junk, can't change it.
[08:51] <xncn> Can't stand gnome either. Otherwise I'd be on debian.
[08:52] <HappyHobo> I like MATE and the older XFCE paradigm over the traditional more windows like paradigm but this, this is incredible, I spent days setting up Afterstep2 but it wasn't as awesome.  I have this so it alphas when the mouse isn't over it and opaque when the mouse hovers over it.
[08:52] <HappyHobo> Remember KDE 3 series?
[08:52] <xncn> I do
[08:52] <HappyHobo> I thought I was using windows 98SE.  LOL
[08:53] <xncn> Don't remind me..
[08:53] <HappyHobo> Heh.
[08:53] <xncn> Some of the stuff is god awful
[08:53] <HappyHobo> Default ChaletOS reminds me of XP.  LOL
[08:54] <xncn> Honestly even now, there's some pretty dated looking stuff, drives me nuts. Guess it's whatever you're going for though.
[08:56] <HappyHobo> I am so happy that this distribution and I suppose Xubuntu too no longer links and intertwines QT with KDE.  I was surprised after I installed it that clementine was QT because I didn't get hit with a 200MB download of KDE.  Talk about ooh, ahh, wow.
[08:56] <pencilandpaper> xncn, you can get debian with Xfce. There is even a iso for it. Its what I use.
[08:57] <xncn> Oh wow I completely forgot about that. I was looking into it briefly but never tried it out.
[08:57] <HappyHobo> It used to be you received QT you got KDE whether you liked it or not.  It got better from that point you removed KDE and you got a dozen dependency issues damaging everything.
[08:58] <pencilandpaper> Yeah, since all that I use is Xfce unless using Puppy Linux..I had to look for it xncn .
[08:58] <HappyHobo> Before bases like debian, mandrake, ubuntu one had to consider whether they were going gtk and qt.
[08:58] <xncn> Thanks for the reminder, I'm going to be checking it out.
[08:58] <pencilandpaper> Yw xncn .
[08:59] <HappyHobo> At one point I said firetruck it and went straight X11 so everything worked.  Gtk distributios truly hated QT apps.  Y'all remember that?
[09:00] <HappyHobo> QT distributions were a little more forgiving when it came to blending in GTK apps back then but you had to run KDE as a DE to do that and I hate KDE.
[09:00] <xncn> Yeah, that's what really steered me away initially.
[09:00] <xncn> Big PITA.
[09:03] <HappyHobo> Heh I was insane when I started out.  I used Mandrake but it wasn't functional on my former laptop because I couldn't get the modem to work.  I love Gnome 2 so much though.  I got a disk for Mepis which ran my modem and did all kinds of cool things.  From that point it went straight to lunacy install gnome 2 on a KDE 3centric distribution.  I had more dependency issues than a heroin clinic.
[09:03] <HappyHobo> QT apps being run in xfce even look like gtk they don't look strange at all.
[09:04] <HappyHobo> pencilandpaper:  does plasma have its on variant of QT?
[09:05] <HappyHobo> Will xubuntu handle that well?
[09:06] <pencilandpaper> I think so HappyHobo , I believe that when using KDE you can ofcourse use the gtk engines to run your gtk apps with the gtk appearances, and there is also a qt engine to do the same thing.
[09:07] <pencilandpaper> With Xubuntu, I'm not sure how that works since I don't really run any QT apps, I know that qupzilla looked nice when I checked it out..and I do use Kopete messenger and it has some small appearance issues, but the majority of its gui looks alright.
[09:07] <HappyHobo> At one time the engines didn't function well together in the same distribution.\
[09:08] <pencilandpaper> I know right, they have gotten better with that.
[09:08] <HappyHobo> I remember running something and got everything but the Ksink.
[09:09] <pencilandpaper> I know right, thats one thing about the KDE apps, they pull in quite a bit of depends along with them.
[09:09] <pencilandpaper> My main distro of choice as wild as this may sound to most is Puppy Linux. I just prefer it.
[09:10] <HappyHobo> You got something like apt-get install clementine expecting 4 or 5 packages and bam here comes two screen fulls of "necessary" applications.  All you could do if you wanted to continue was bang your head on the desk, scream really and hit yes.
[09:10] <pencilandpaper> I just happen to use Xubuntu and Devuan (debian without systemd and using sysvinit) as well.
[09:10] <pencilandpaper> I know right. lol
[09:11] <HappyHobo> I like Chalet because of the style dhanger and the backgrounds.  It's also quite fast even running 32 bit.
[09:11] <HappyHobo> MX15 changed everything with its vertical setup bam wow.]
[09:12] <pencilandpaper> A friend of mine runs Chalet OS.
[09:13] <pencilandpaper> MX15 is one that I haven't checked out..but I know someone that used it for a while. I'm not sure if they are still using it.
[09:13] <HappyHobo> It's awesome, there is no irc or otherwise p2p for it.
[09:13] <pencilandpaper> MX15?
[09:13] <HappyHobo> Chalet
[09:14] <pencilandpaper> O ok cool..
[09:14] <HappyHobo> For me name means something.  Chalet is plain neat.  Gates gave me windows, Chalet gives me the entire house sure it's a Swiss house but hey it's a house.  LOL
[09:15] <pencilandpaper> I created a xfce 4.10.pet for my Tahrpup install so that I could run 4.10 instead of 4.12 since I prefer the window snapping in xfce 4.10 to how it works in 4.12.
[09:15] <pencilandpaper> Thats cool. Are you running Chalet right now?
[09:17] <HappyHobo> Yep.  want to see something tacky?
[09:17] <pencilandpaper> Sure.
[09:19] <HappyHobo> http://i.imgur.com/fDR7pzz.png   Heh the orange will cross your eyes.
[09:19] <HappyHobo> There's  purple that would make Prince proud.
[09:20] <HappyHobo> Digging the pink?
[09:20] <pencilandpaper> Thats dope. :)
[09:20] <pencilandpaper> Brb, let me switch up real quick man, I want to share a screenshot with you as well.
[09:25] <HappyHobo> Whatcha got for me?
[09:26] <pencilandpaper> Ok back, thanks. :)
[09:27] <pencilandpaper> Ok, let me go ahead and get a screenshot real quick.
[09:27] <pencilandpaper> This is the default JWM desktop, and I have added compton as a compositor and tilda as a drop-down terminal. Changed gtk themes, desktop icons, things like that..and added conky.
[09:28] <pencilandpaper> I covered up a few things in conky.
[09:29] <HappyHobo> Some of the windows themes like elegant redmond classic are actually quite sweet.  http://i.imgur.com/1Pz34q1.png  There is a background that works every style but there is some lack of functionality with the style changer.  It won't make a simple background with the style color.  It's supposed to just match an xfce background with the color heh it doesn't.  You put  a serious amount of work into your GUI.  I have friends that are d
[09:30] <HappyHobo> GUI is and has been the future.  Most folks are truly WYSIWYG.  Most folks don't see a screen of ASCII and binary and go oooh and ahhhh.
[09:32] <pencilandpaper> I know right..
[09:32] <HappyHobo> Isn't the elegant redmond classic sweet?\
[09:32] <pencilandpaper> Well one thing about Puppy is that its so customizable that its ridiculous and in all ways
[09:32] <pencilandpaper> Yeah, it is nice.
[09:32] <pencilandpaper> It has that windows appearance to it.
[09:33] <HappyHobo> You want customizable and configurable try AS2 or FVWM there isn't anything it can't do.
[09:34] <pencilandpaper> http://picpaste.com/image-3-AOGxzXuY.png <----- Check it out. :)
[09:34] <pencilandpaper> I feel you. Thats about what I am dealing with over here once you get in to it.
[09:35] <pencilandpaper> As you can see I am only using 168mb of ram or something like that, and thats almost heavy. Another thing that I like a lot about this distro.
[09:36] <HappyHobo> Not a jwm fan but that is sweet.
[09:37] <pencilandpaper> Thanks, I appreciate it. I also have Xfce installed on here too..that I use when I want to.
[09:38] <HappyHobo> Problem with fvwm and as2 is it is all xml and html files to edit to get what you want but it's awesome.  I would choose AS2 over FWM because it has multiple files to work with whereas FVWM has one huge file.
[09:39] <HappyHobo> I like the redmonds and the chaletos styles they are like security blankets for newbies.
[09:40] <pencilandpaper> Right, I know what you mean. With JWM you have a bunch of files for each part of the desktop that you want to customize. It comes set up sparsely for you though. With a bottom panel with a clock, a theme so that you can see your apps in a window, and thats about it. O and your application menu is roughly there for you.
[09:40] <pencilandpaper> But as far as the rest you have to set it up. One thing about Puppy is that its already completely customized for you, and provides its own apps that you can't find anywhere else for customization through the gui..so its very nice and user friendly.
[09:41] <pencilandpaper> I know exactly what you mean. I was checking it out yesterday online when my friend mentioned that he was using it. It does have a lot of customizations to it.
[09:41] <pencilandpaper> Pretty innovative.
[09:42] <pencilandpaper> When Xenialpup goes stable, the Puppy that is based on 16.04 I will have it installed and be using it. This one is Tahrpup which is based on 14.04.
[09:42] <HappyHobo> fvwm is the oldest wm from what I understand and so many DE/WM stem from it.  From what I under
[09:42] <HappyHobo> stand xfce has its basis there too.\
[09:43] <HappyHobo> If you want to do it fvwm will I've always heard.
[09:43] <pencilandpaper> Right now Xenialpup is pre-beta. I have it installed, but its still buggy..so its not for everyday use..I just wanted a first look.
[09:43] <pencilandpaper> Yeah, I have read that Xfce stems from it as well I think.
[09:43] <HappyHobo> I love Chalet but I'm considering switcching to xubuntu for the p2p.
[09:44] <pencilandpaper> Well thats up to you. You can always do a dual boot as well HappyHobo ..so that you can use what you want to use..as well as have Xubuntu installed for when you need it.
[09:44] <pencilandpaper> What do you mean by p2p if you don't mind me asking?
[09:45] <HappyHobo> fvwm is x11 the true renderer, the true engine, the big dog that gtk and qt come from and work with.  If you make an all x11 system you will have blinding speed even on older systems.  I basically did that at one time but can't rememberhow.
[09:46] <pencilandpaper> Yeah, thats true.
[09:46] <HappyHobo> person to person, irc and such, there are forums but I prefer IRC
[09:46] <pencilandpaper> O ok, I understand. I would stick with what you enjoy using HappyHobo ..and hang out where you want to no matter what you use. ;)
[09:47] <pencilandpaper> Thats what I do. You can catch me across quite a few different networks and channels all while riding Puppy Linux until it stops.
[09:47] <HappyHobo> I'm still frustrated with the html issue with the style changer even though I would never keep the background.
[09:47] <pencilandpaper> I do have Xubuntu and Debian/Devuan installed at all times as well though so.
[09:48] <HappyHobo> I have MX15 and Chalet
[09:48] <pencilandpaper> That could be something that is worked out with time though. Its still a fairly new distro..and I am sure that has been posted as a bug report.
[09:48] <pencilandpaper> Nice.
[09:48] <HappyHobo> BRB I'm going to see what MX15 does or if it even works since I'm sharing the home.
[09:49] <pencilandpaper> Ok cool, go for it.
[09:53] <HappyHobo> Heh pencilandpaper mx15 64 bit with it switched from mx15 and jessie repositories to stretch repositories is so fast but damn compared to Chalet its hideous.
[09:55] <pencilandpaper> lol
[09:55] <pencilandpaper> Doesn't it use fluxbox as its DE?
[09:56] <HappyHobo> No it uses xfce gone vertical and simple
[09:56] <pencilandpaper> One reason that I stuck with Jessie is to be able to stick with Xfce 4.10 instead of 4.12..or else I would upgrade to stretch.
[09:56] <pencilandpaper> Ok cool..
[09:57] <HappyHobo> I just found new backgrounds on mx15 and I don't know where to find them to use them in Chalet.  Oh my golly goodness I just got wowed.  I need them.  Where do I find them?
[09:58] <pencilandpaper> In /usr/share/backgrounds   /usr/share/image?
[09:58] <HappyHobo> There are dozens of them.
[09:59] <pencilandpaper> If not there, then I will have to take a look in my filesystem for some hints. lol
[09:59] <HappyHobo> HOLY SPIT!
[09:59] <pencilandpaper> lol
[10:00] <HappyHobo> I love pretty backdrops that I don't have to fight to get it.  I like being given things cool things neat things.  These are both.  I want them on both my distributions.  I must find the gimmes.
[10:02] <HappyHobo> gimme gimme gimme gimme
[10:02] <HappyHobo> now if I just get this stupid thing to give me the style changer
[10:02] <HappyHobo> muahahahahahahahaha
[10:03] <HappyHobo> I bet if I add chalet's repo I could get style changer on MX15
[10:03] <HappyHobo> then there would be no point in having Chalet.  muahahahahah
[10:07] <HappyHobo> Howdy.
[10:08] <HappyHobo> http://i.imgur.com/SOwj7Ya.png
[10:09] <HappyHobo> I want it, I want it, I want it for chalet.
[10:10] <pencilandpaper> Whats up man.  I saw that one before on there.
[10:10] <pencilandpaper> lol
[10:11] <pencilandpaper> No, I think that too many things were running at once or something.
[10:11] <HappyHobo> There are  dozen gooedies.
[10:11] <knome> HappyHobo, pencilandpaper: we have #xubuntu-offtopic for the non-support discussion :)
[10:12] <pencilandpaper> Ok knome, sorry. :)
[10:12] <pencilandpaper> HappyHobo: Lets move over there man.
[10:12] <HappyHobo> Oh Lord you're awake.
[10:54] <xubuntu06w> Hi, wanted to add a startupt scritp at startup. Doesn't work.
[10:54] <xubuntu06w> I used the suggestions in the top answer at this thread: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12973777/how-to-run-a-shell-script-at-startup
[10:54] <xubuntu06w> I'm using Xubuntu 12.04
[11:05] <xubuntu06w> !ping ?
[11:06] <xubuntu06w> !bump
[11:09] <xubuntu06w> *logging out*
[19:51] <FoolishDave_> so whenever I try and log into steam or install cutorch through luarocks, my comp locks up entirely and I have to force shutdown. How do I even try and start fixing this?
[20:51]  * JeZxLee wonders when AMD will fix Radeon driver on 16.04


[00:00] <daftykins> in she goes - with 10 mins on the clock
[00:00] <TJ-> :) right on midnight too
[00:01] <TJ-> so technically been in there a day already :d
[00:15] <daftykins> mmm, i don't think anything felt particularly cold
[00:15] <daftykins> definitely fridge and not freezer? :D
[00:15] <daftykins> no change :S
[00:18] <TJ-> could try it longer. The freezer might cause condensation and/or physical stress
[00:22] <daftykins> i think i'll have to call it a night there, i'm fried :)
[00:22] <daftykins> i'll give it its' morning test and see if it spurs into life
[00:22] <TJ-> blimey I'm getting dafter... wondering why this qemu VM guest was running so slow... forgot to add -enable-kvm so it was complete software emulation! I'm so used to using the old /usr/bin/kvm binary that now we only have qemu-system-x86_64 I forget to add the option
[00:23] <daftykins> oops :D
[00:24] <TJ-> oh, and 15.10 does have a simple shell script doing just that at /usr/bin/kvm!
[00:25]  * TJ- decides to run away with Pepper to a deserted islan :)
[00:25] <daftykins> i do like the simple ones :D
[00:25] <Bashing-om> The things one sees in just reading the code !
[00:27] <TJ-> hmmm, and this 14.04.3 i386 image, it offers me a login! I try ubuntu/ubuntu and it tries to log-in and comes back to the greeter
[00:29] <daftykins> o0
[00:32] <TJ-> trying again
[00:32] <TJ-> (ISO MD5 is correct)
[00:33] <daftykins> time for bed then i think!
[00:33] <daftykins> TJ-: thanks again :)
[00:34] <daftykins> many virtual cookies are owed i feel
[00:36] <TJ-> I think I'll keep Pepper in the bedroom tonight in case she decides to open a window !
[00:36] <daftykins> hahaha, a regular Houdini there
[00:39]  * daftykins wishes to all a good night \o
[00:39] <TJ-> night night
[00:40] <Bashing-om> daftykins: Good nite til the next time we meet .
[00:42] <pauljw> gnite daftykins
[01:02] <Bashing-om> TJ-: How big of a bottle do you have to contain all that patience ?
[01:06] <TJ-> ha! I don't, I'm doing other things so I just ignore the 'noise' most of the time
[01:10] <TJ-> I'm escaping to bed whilst the going's good.
[01:13] <Bashing-om> The great escape !
[02:24] <pauljw> gnite all
[02:51] <WEB6BER66> Hi guys!
[02:53] <Bashing-om> WEB6BER66: Got your tine hat on ? to enter here that is the safest .
[03:20] <WEB6BER66> Ubuntu MATE or Linux Mint MATE?
[03:20] <WEB6BER66> And why?
[03:25] <Bashing-om> WEB6BER66: Best is what you make for your own .  Have re-installed the graphics driver(nvidia)  and have confirmed he does own /home and has authority .
[04:18] <Bashing-om> WEB6BER66: Yep it is a keeper .
[04:18] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: you know on wich driver version?
[04:19] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Awaiting the results of my last request . see what 'autoinstall' did for him .
[04:20] <WEB6BER66> Bashing-om: Are you familiar with the lead coders behind Ubuntu MATE?
[04:20] <lotuspsychje> WEB6BER66: you can join the #ubuntu-mate channel
[04:22] <Bashing-om> WEB6BER66: No, I never met them dudes and dudetts .
[04:48] <WEB6BER66> Anyone know if Ubuntu MATE is here to stay?
[04:48] <lotuspsychje> ?
[04:51] <WEB6BER66> If it's going to be kept current 10 yrs from now.
[04:51] <lotuspsychje> !lts | WEB6BER66
[04:52] <WEB6BER66> I meant the MATE version.
[04:52] <WEB6BER66> It's a niche flavor.
[04:52] <lotuspsychje> WEB6BER66: you need to read up a little
[04:52] <lotuspsychje> WEB6BER66: mate can be LTS or non-lts also
[04:54] <Bashing-om> nite guys I am out of here , later .
[04:54] <lotuspsychje> nite Bashing-om
[08:01] <lotuspsychje> hey nicomachus
[08:01] <lotuspsychje> add to favs if you like
[08:02] <lotuspsychje> nicomachus: the idea is, we always do support, but never have a chance to talk
[08:02] <lotuspsychje> so here we are :p
[08:02] <nicomachus> heh, I only *attempt* support when I'm truly bored. I still consider myself a linux noob, so I impress myself when I can actually help someone fix something...
[08:03] <lotuspsychje> nicomachus: we all here to learn mate
[08:03] <nicomachus> 90% of the time I go into #ubuntu to get help myself...
[08:03] <lotuspsychje> lol thats the best
[08:03] <lotuspsychje> nicomachus: feel free to dile here
[08:03] <lotuspsychje> idle
[08:04] <lotuspsychje> and welcome
[08:04] <nicomachus> thanks.
[08:05] <lotuspsychje> bbl
[08:38] <QVIKti455> Hello ~~~~~~~~~~~~
[10:02] <lordievader> Good morning.
[12:11] <BluesKaj> Howdy all
[12:36] <MonkeyDust> what's it called again, if you want to use the vivid kernel in trusty?
[12:36] <OerHeks> i call it funny, but it is called HWE
[12:36] <MonkeyDust> !hwe
[12:37] <MonkeyDust> tnx
[12:37] <OerHeks> :-D
[12:37] <MonkeyDust> note to self: backup first!
[12:55] <daftykins> :)
[12:55] <daftykins> afternoon all o/
[12:59] <BluesKaj> hey daftykins
[12:59] <MonkeyDust> there there
[13:00] <MonkeyDust> donald trump wants to ask bill gates to shut down the internet
[13:01] <daftykins> oh dear
[13:04] <MonkeyDust> brb, HWE
[13:04] <BluesKaj>  Donald Trump is merely having fun riding the wave of fear and hatred, spewing anything at all that he thinks will keep the attention on him, and I don't think he beleives he can actually win, hence the behaviour
[13:05] <OerHeks> I think he is a decoy, for Hillary C.
[13:05] <OerHeks> and she'll pay him later, with billions in gov contracts :-D
[13:06] <BluesKaj> seems to be working out that way, OerHeks
[13:08] <MonkeyDust> !hwe
[13:10] <MonkeyDust> let's see
[13:13] <daftykins> shouldn't be too long before the Wily stack is out? then it'll be ubuntu 14.04.4 :)
[13:30] <MonkeyDust> videos go to fullscreen without lag, now... that's one improvement
[13:32] <MonkeyDust> but online reader's comments on news items are still as silly as before
[13:56] <daftykins> MonkeyDust: what's that with, intel on-die graphics?
[13:57] <MonkeyDust> daftykins  i'm not familiar with that
[13:57] <BluesKaj> intel doesn't have pci gpus, only onboards
[13:58] <daftykins> yep, but the older generations were on the motherboard chipset and not on-die
[13:58] <daftykins> so i tend to make the distinction to gauge age, at the same time
[14:08] <daftykins> BluesKaj: do you think since i left it days, a quick dry wipe on that DVD lens would help still, or should i start with the IPA again first?
[14:08] <daftykins> TJ-: afternoon o/
[14:10] <TJ-> hallo
[14:10] <daftykins> TJ-: someone i've had solder work done by before has been recommended for helping with the sub :D hopefully i can get his number
[14:10] <TJ-> Did you manage to freeze that amp? :)
[14:11] <daftykins> hehe, i've not touched it today as it goes... i thought i would pop down there in a minute and make a video of how it behaves on an initial power on... then see if it fails instantly after the first switch to standby
[14:11] <TJ-> Oh, good.
[14:11] <TJ-> yes, that'd be instructive
[14:11] <daftykins> i know a song that reliably engages the sub at the 24 second mark
[14:12] <daftykins> just had that 27" LCD and cheap laptop with the first SSD in it picked up :)
[14:12] <TJ-> it does sound like the auto-detection level is set too high. I wonder if tha variable resistor on the audio PCB controls that?
[14:13] <daftykins> it just varies the strength of the sub that little dial that's on the reverse
[14:14] <daftykins> the AVR of course has a crossover level with a Hz value to set, but it doesn't seem to have any impact
[14:14] <TJ-> No; on the audio PCB there's a minature 'pot' (potentiometer) I did wonder about, but I don't like recommending random adjustments. It would make sense though, since I can't think why the circuit would need a pot otherwise, and vibration could have caused it to alter its position
[14:15] <daftykins> ah was that the little orange topped one which had a philips screw head?
[14:15] <TJ-> it is on the left side as you look at the power transistors
[14:15] <TJ-> Yes
[14:15] <daftykins> ah har
[14:16] <TJ-> if you can mark its current position accurately so as to be able to return to it, you could try rotating that 1mm at a time
[14:16] <daftykins> i got charged about £40 last time to resolder a blown MOSFET on a laptop motherboard via an intermediary company that subcontracted the job to this guy, so hopefully it'd be a cheap one
[14:18] <daftykins> right i think i'll go and make my little video :D
[14:21] <BluesKaj> daftykins, sorry i away for a few mins, usually mist alcohols will completely evaporate in less the 15-30 mins ..so no need to wipe now, unless you had it exposed to ambient air.
[14:30] <daftykins> BluesKaj: no problem :) well i just opened up the drive, swabbed it and then threw it back together and plugged it in
[14:31] <daftykins> TJ-: sub has totally given up now!
[14:32] <daftykins> 56MB video: http://techblo.gg/stuff/subwoofer.mp4
[14:32] <TJ-> any sign of power/stand-by ?
[14:33] <daftykins> yeah the exact 24 second marker in this song i know flicks it on, you can make out the click but no more *thud* of the speaker engaging
[14:35] <TJ-> did the sub activate on initial power-up ?
[14:36] <daftykins> nah, when you flick the standby rocker it just sits idle, so that video shows its' very first attempt of the day
[14:36] <daftykins> pauljw: o/
[14:36] <pauljw> hey daftykins :)
[14:37] <pauljw> everyone..
[14:38] <daftykins> oof nearly 3, i should get lunch on ;)
[14:40]  * OerHeks got attacked by 3 turkey-subs, but won!
[14:40] <daftykins> hahaha
[14:40] <daftykins> is that your mums doing? :)
[14:40] <OerHeks> Drabber wanted to help me too
[14:41] <OerHeks> no, mom is going to come later, sunday diner.
[14:41] <daftykins> ah :D
[14:42] <daftykins> oof yeah my cat Mischief is always sniffing around now when i crack open the bacon :D
[14:52] <lotuspsychje> afternoon to all
[14:53] <TJ-> heya :)
[14:53] <lotuspsychje> hey TJ-
[14:53] <pauljw> hi lotuspsychje , TJ-
[14:53] <lotuspsychje> hey pauljw
[14:53] <lotuspsychje> crowdy sunday support oO
[14:54] <lotuspsychje> hi OerHeks and daftykins
[14:54] <OerHeks> lotus :-D
[14:54]  * TJ- sobs  ... but... but... but... no-one can support me
[14:54] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: your issues are always so complicated :p
[14:54] <daftykins> heya \o
[14:55] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: what are you strugling with this time ... :p
[14:55] <lotuspsychje> derheks lol
[14:56] <TJ-> complicated? no way! It's just the 14.04.3 i386 desktop installer 'Try Ubuntu' always going to a log-in prompt
[14:57] <TJ-> And yes I've confirmed the ISO hash, and done 'check disc'
[14:57] <OerHeks> that happens a lot, lotuspsychje, derheks DerHeks
[14:57] <OerHeks> sounds like an old german tv crime serie
[14:57] <lotuspsychje> hahaha
[14:58] <lotuspsychje> derflick
[14:58] <TJ-> does anyone else have that same ISO and can test it in a VM too?
[14:58] <TJ-> my command-line is:
[14:58] <TJ-> kvm -m 1024 -smp cpus=2 -vga std -drive media=cdrom,file=/mnt/target/var/lib/libvirt/images/iso/ubuntu-14.04.3-desktop-i386.iso -drive media=disk,format=raw,file=/dev/VG_DATA/test -net nic -chardev stdio,id=con
[14:58] <daftykins> TJ-: sure let me grab it, is a comparison to vmware ok?
[14:59] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: i recently installed trusty 32bit on a box and had no issues myself
[15:00] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: but we do have alot of users with loginloops lately
[15:00] <lotuspsychje> mostly grafix issues
[15:00] <TJ-> daftykins: not sure; this could be an issue caused by Qemu. You just need qemu-system-x86 installed to duplicate my usage exactly
[15:01] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: this is a werid one since the desktop live should auto-login to the desktop
[15:01] <daftykins> ok, i can give both a whirl if i grab the sony from downstairs
[15:01] <TJ-> It doesn't, and when I type the username "ubuntu" and press Enter for the password it appears to be trying to log-in then returns to the greeter
[15:02] <TJ-> the VG_DATA/test is just an 8GiB LV, strictly that's not even needed to test this log-in issue
[15:02] <TJ-> the simpliest command line would be
[15:03] <TJ-> kvm -m 1024 -smp cpus=2 -vga std -drive media=cdrom,file=buntu-14.04.3-desktop-i386.iso
[15:03] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: did you install a box with that usb before?
[15:03] <TJ-> well, '=ubuntu-' not '=buntu-' !
[15:03] <daftykins> i think he's virtualising direct from a downloaded ISO on disk
[15:03] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: it isn't a USB, it's the ISO
[15:03] <lotuspsychje> ah
[15:04] <TJ-> I'm not seeing the issue with older ISOs so beginning to suspect a problem in the .3 i386 installer
[15:04] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: was just thinking the usb stick remembers previous login:pass of a previous install
[15:04] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: that's impossible for the live env :)
[15:04] <lotuspsychje> indeed :p
[15:05] <daftykins> TJ-: how important will this be? i'm under the impression 14.04.4 with the wily HWE is around the corner?
[15:05] <TJ-> daftykins: well, if there is a bug, it doesn't want to continue into .4, it needs identifying and fixing
[15:05] <daftykins> i think someone claimed the .4 is in beta right now
[15:06] <TJ-> this might be a regression specific to running of i386 on a 64-bit host
[15:08] <daftykins> 0bc058cdc75fb75d4922c7c74c4cd6b1 my hash, checked out ok from http://releases.ubuntu.com/trusty/
[15:08] <daftykins> booting to 'try' mode with vmware to start with to see
[15:08] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: is this usefull? http://askubuntu.com/questions/103896/live-cd-asks-for-a-username-and-password
[15:09] <TJ-> I'm going to test the current trusty daily as well
[15:09] <daftykins> works in vmware, albeit the shocking resolution :D
[15:10] <TJ-> It could be a qemu issue I suppose, though hard to imagine what would cause a userspace issue like this
[15:10] <daftykins> i'll grab my sony, though i have 32-bit xubuntu on there - would that be a problem?
[15:10] <daftykins> i've never used KVM before
[15:10] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: no, that's just dealing with the symptom but doesn't talk about the cause - the live desktop shouldn't be asking for a login at all
[15:11] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: this french thread mentions also an architecture issue (last post): https://forum.ubuntu-fr.org/viewtopic.php?id=1901321
[15:11] <TJ-> daftykins: kvm is a script that calls qemu-system-x86_64 and uses hardware acceleration by default
[15:12] <daftykins> i'm not sure laptop even has VT
[15:12] <TJ-> daftykins: "kvm-ok"
[15:12] <TJ-> INFO: /dev/kvm exists
[15:13] <TJ-> KVM acceleration can be used
[15:18] <daftykins> it claims the BIOS is blocking - and the BIOS on this Sony doesn't have the option
[15:18] <daftykins> intel core 2 U7600 in there which does support VT-x apparently
[15:18] <daftykins> would software emulation invalidate a test?
[15:19] <TJ-> Right, Sony disable it on many systems. I had to hack the BIOS's NV-RAM for the VGN-FE41Z to enable it
[15:19] <TJ-> it'd make it painfully slow... probably get there about midnight :)
[15:20] <daftykins> XD
[15:20] <lotuspsychje> oops that was for here daftykins
[15:20] <TJ-> I'm inside the guest now, with a console terminal, and it looks suspiciously like Unity failing because there's no accelerated GPU
[15:20] <daftykins> lotuspsychje: yep at last, all paid up and taken it home :) he's asked about a graphics card for the office PC to be able to drive that 27" screen now too
[15:20] <TJ-> If so, that is a MAJOR problem for users wanting to test it
[15:21] <daftykins> TJ-: i wouldn't be surprised if that's what it is, do any lightdm logs give a clue?
[15:21] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: nice
[15:21] <TJ-> in /home/ubuntu/.xsession-errors theres "init: gnome-session (Unity) main process (2379) terminated with status 1"
[15:21] <daftykins> he didn't seem bothered about the 1TB disk, so it's sat in a bag on my spare desk right now
[15:21] <TJ-> looking now
[15:22] <lotuspsychje> maybe lordievader knows some about that kvm issue?
[15:23] <TJ-> there's a /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old ... and it has amongst other (EE) "AIGLX: reverting to software rendering" and "open /dev/dri/card0: No such file or directory"
[15:23] <TJ-> so, it looks like without a simulated hardware accelerated GPU inside the VM, the standard Ubuntu desktop ISO will no longer work
[15:24] <lordievader> lotuspsychje: ?
[15:24] <daftykins> think i found a guide for modifying the BIOS on this model Sony
[15:24] <TJ-> typical Unity crap
[15:24] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: solved?
[15:24] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: not so far, i'm looking at possibly using the spice protocol qith qemu to bring the GPU outside the guest
[15:24] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: TJ- had an issue on trusty 32bit on kvm, asking username/pass
[15:25] <TJ-> daftykins: haha, that guide probably stems from my work
[15:25] <daftykins> TJ-: http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/how-to-enable-intel-vt-and-ahci-on-a-napa-santa-rosa-platform-phoenix-bios-vaio-laptop.189228/ :)
[15:25] <daftykins> i would imagine me doing that on this machine would be too much of a distraction from your goal, but i'd happily give it a go
[15:26] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: on the livemode
[15:26] <TJ-> daftykins: it's fine thanks now, I think we've pinpointed the cause
[15:26] <daftykins> *nod*
[15:26] <lordievader> Don't think that has anything to do with KVM itself.
[15:26] <TJ-> daftykins: basically it fails to start the user session but as the screen doesn't flicker at that point its not obvious it tried and failed
[15:26] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: he tested 14.04.2 and running fine
[15:27] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: I'm not sure about that right now, I think I may have done things slightly differently. Don't quote me as yet, because I used libvirt/virt-manager to run the previous ISO and it may have used 'spice'
[15:28] <daftykins> i kinda want to enable VT now just for fun XD
[15:29] <TJ-> daftykins: here's my work on that from 2007: http://tjworld.net/wiki/Sony/Vaio/FE41Z/HackingBiosNvram
[15:29] <daftykins> thanks :)
[15:29] <TJ-> daftykins: it starts as my having copied my original posts in a long thread on a forum, in case it went missing, so there's some implied answers to another user's questions and observations as we swapped experiences
[15:32] <TJ-> daftykins: all you really want is to identify the correct index of the NVRAM variable used in that PC, and use a DOS boot disk and the 'SymCMOS.exe' program to change its value. There are now several sites that list the correct value for many different Sony models. If you tell me the exact model I can probably check if the value exists and is trustable. Best thing to do is show me "dmesg | grep DMI"
[15:32] <TJ-> from the Sony laptop
[15:34] <daftykins> TJ-: VGN-TZ31WN/B - currently on BIOS R0091N7 (can't find any updates)
[15:34] <TJ-> OK, the BIOS version is the thing the Tokens are tied to, so I'll search on that
[15:37] <TJ-> here's the list https://communities.vmware.com/message/1377164#1377164
[15:37] <TJ-> and yours is Token value 0363
[15:38] <daftykins> ooh nifty
[15:38] <daftykins> ok lets see what i can do :)
[15:38] <TJ-> Do you have an (external USB) floppy to boot that PC with, or does it only have CDROM?
[15:39] <daftykins> only CD, though i do have a flash drive with kind of win98 boot files on it that can boot to a DOS style
[15:39] <TJ-> I can send you the symcmos bootable floppy image immediately, but I'd have to build/test a CD image
[15:39] <TJ-> really? OK, let me package just the symcmos stuff for you
[15:40] <daftykins> i'll test if it boots on that machine
[15:41] <daftykins> yep good ol' win98 boot logo then command.com :>
[15:43] <TJ-> 160KB: https://iam.tj/projects/misc/symcmos.tar.bz2
[15:43] <TJ-> as far as I recall you only need symcmos.exe on the floppy
[15:44] <daftykins> ah well, thrown the whole folder on :)
[15:45] <daftykins> yep the .exe works ok on there
[15:46] <TJ-> right. once it has booted the first thing you do is capture to file the current settings by runnin "symcmos -v2 -lmvram.txt
[15:47] <daftykins> yep file written
[15:47] <TJ-> then, you need to move the USB to another system, mount it, clone that file to vt-enable.txt (still in the same directory on the USB) and then text-edit the vt-enable.txt
[15:48] <TJ-> in vt-enable.txt look for that token that represents the VT flags (0363)
[15:48] <TJ-> the value alongside it should currently show 0000; change it to 0001. Save the file, return the USB to the Sony
[15:49] <TJ-> run "symcmos -v2 -uvt-enable.txt"
[15:49] <TJ-> assuming no errors, cold boot the Sony and linux's "kvm-ok" should report  "KVM acceleration can be used"
[15:50] <daftykins> shall follow those steps now :) thanks!
[15:55] <daftykins> TJ-: success :)
[15:57] <daftykins> i'll try a KVM boot of that ISO now just for fun ;)
[15:57] <TJ-> Yay!
[15:58] <TJ-> Figuring those instructions out originally took me 3 weeks of reverse-engineering
[15:58] <daftykins> crikey!
[15:59] <TJ-> But I was so mad at Sony because I'd chosen that model specifically for the CPU having VT, to use VM acceleration, that I wasn't going to be beat :)
[16:00] <daftykins> mmm i find them really stupid for that
[16:00] <daftykins> this model is one of my main clients' old travelling machines
[16:02] <lotuspsychje> bbl movies :p
[16:04] <daftykins> TJ-: to copy your command from earlier i don't have a /dev/VG_DATA/test ; do i need to 'touch' a file in any path to create a blank image to work with?
[16:06] <MonkeyDust> my mind is slow today ... any way to increase speed?
[16:06] <TJ-> no, that's an 8GiB logical volume I created to test install into. You don't even need that, just try booting the image
[16:07] <TJ-> kvm -m 1024 -smp cpus=2 -vga std -drive media=cdrom,file=ubuntu-14.04.3-desktop-i386.iso
[16:08] <daftykins> SDL init error, i take it i need to do this from inside X?
[16:10] <TJ-> hmm, SDL libraries should be available
[16:11] <TJ-> It could be, yes, it's so long since I ran a GUI VM guest from raw console I forget
[16:11] <daftykins> yeah it just can't launch on that PuTTY session :>
[16:12] <daftykins> http://techblo.gg/stuff/kvm.png
[16:12] <daftykins> well what do you know! that's on a 32-bit host
[16:14] <TJ-> Yay, reproduced!
[16:14] <TJ-> Thanks a lot :D
[16:15] <daftykins> ^_^ communal back scratching!
[16:17] <daftykins> glad to help in return for once :D
[17:06] <MonkeyDust> BluesKaj  "Konversation"? are you using kubuntu?
[17:07] <daftykins> busted for KDE use indeed ;)
[17:11] <BluesKaj> MonkeyDust, yes 16.04
[17:12] <BluesKaj> been a KDE guy for 10yrs :-)
[17:15] <MonkeyDust> BluesKaj  16.04 as VM, or in production? i have it in vmware player
[17:17] <BluesKaj> MonkeyDust, on a partition, beside my 14.04 install
[17:19] <MonkeyDust> pink font on dark green background ... <3 my Terminal in 16.04
[17:19] <BluesKaj> VMs are ok , but I've never been able to get one to work to my satisfaction, maybe because the guest is always windows:-)
[17:20] <BluesKaj> plasma 5.4.3 desktop here
[17:22] <BluesKaj> white on black terminal for me ...easier on these old eyes
[17:22] <nicomachus> I have a very light blue on a slate-grey. pretty easy on the eyes as well
[17:23] <TJ-> yes, there's far too much of the glaring white backgrounds I find
[17:24] <TJ-> also, choosing an inverted theme really reveals the GUI bugs. I find KDE is terrible, some file choosers are unusable because they ignore the theme and use hard-coded values
[17:25] <TJ-> So I find entries drawn light-grey text on white background; takes some fine squinting to read those
[17:27] <MonkeyDust> i find kde/plasmea 'too much of too much' you can modify
[17:28] <TJ-> That's why I like it; I'm in control, not the developers
[17:30] <MonkeyDust> i mean, the GUI
[17:30] <MonkeyDust> another menu here, another option there
[17:30] <nicomachus> MonkeyDust: I take it you haven't tried any tiling WMs then?
[17:31] <MonkeyDust> nicomachus  you mean 'awesome'?
[17:31] <nicomachus> yea, or i3 or bwspm or the like. the config options are endless, and they almost never look good without at least a few hours of config work
[17:33] <MonkeyDust> i'm happy with unity
[17:33] <MonkeyDust> lxde for my vm's
[17:33] <nicomachus> yea, that's the decision I came to after trying a few different WM's.
[17:34] <MonkeyDust> did i just say that i'm happy?
[17:37] <daftykins> i think some folk just want to use their computers and get things done ;)
[17:39] <TJ-> yeah, which is why I avoid Unity!
[17:39] <MonkeyDust> TJ-  cynic
[17:39] <MonkeyDust> ;)
[17:40] <TJ-> not at all, it is completely unusable for me
[17:40] <TJ-> tries to force a workflow that is designed for a tablet onto something entirely NOT a tablet
[17:41] <TJ-> it's designed for media 'consumers' rather than engineers
[17:41] <MonkeyDust> true
[17:42] <MonkeyDust> and i'm not an engineer
[17:42] <TJ-> I have 6 1920x1200 screens, Unity is like something the dog brought up on that
[17:42] <daftykins> i was thinking about the mention of hours to make a tiling WM workable, but i'm hesitant to highlight nicomachus since he ragequits whenever i disagree :(
[17:45] <MonkeyDust> TJ-  your screens, what size are they?
[17:45] <nicomachus> daftykins: I'm sorry, you caught me on a really bad night. I am sorry about that.
[17:45] <TJ-> that Bassem is frustrating; seems to need everything repeating many times and it still doesn't stick
[17:45] <TJ-> MonkeyDust: 24" I think
[17:46] <TJ-> the laptop is 15"
[17:46] <MonkeyDust> *drool*
[17:46] <TJ-> MonkeyDust: see https://iam.tj/photos/Study-workstation.jpg
[17:47] <TJ-> That was with a regular theme, back on white, you see what I mean about glare
[17:47] <TJ-> s/back/black/
[17:48] <nicomachus> 'tis bright
[17:48] <TJ-> And hot after a while, feels like I'm getting a tan :)
[17:48] <nicomachus> not a bad side-effect for the middle of winter ;)
[17:48] <TJ-> if only it were so :D
[18:02] <TJ-> I'm escaping Bassem and going for dinner. Someone help with the nvidia black-screen Legacy/BIOS mode 14.04 desktop installer boot please. Looks like a recent GPU is the issue, but not 100% sure
[18:07] <pauljw> bbl
[18:27] <BluesKaj> hmm, Bassem seems to be back to where we started with him yesterday
[18:28] <daftykins> perhaps it's groundhog day over there? :)
[18:30] <BluesKaj> not much winter in Cairo :-)
[18:33] <BluesKaj> I was about to suggest he wipe his hdd completely and run in legacy mode making an ubuntu install easy.
[18:37] <TJ-> Yesterday there was no problem with black-screen whilst I was helping, the problem then was simply configuring sda2 to be LVM
[18:43] <BluesKaj> dunno why he needs lvm if he can barely edit ordinary parttitons
[18:44] <TJ-> I suggested it; the whole point is to avoid editing the partitions to prevent any damaged to the Windows install.
[18:45] <TJ-> There is a single 200GB sda2 empty/unused, so assign it for LVM and theb the installer can put the rootfs, swap, and home in their without messing about at all
[18:46] <TJ-> the bug is the GUI installer does not offer to create the LVM, it'll only do encryption+LVM (terrible oversight there)
[22:51] <Dylan____> Hello all
[22:52] <daftykins> ruh roh
[23:06] <daftykins> wow the guy removed the nvidia card rather than boot with nomodeset, ouch
[23:09] <TJ-> Earlier I thought he'd tried nomodeset, at least, I told him to do so. I acutally prefer the 'remove the stupid hardware' approach though :)
[23:10] <daftykins> :D
[23:10] <daftykins> would it not be more appropriate to say nouveau is stupid for having issues on maxwell hardware? (that generation card)
[23:10] <TJ-> I think I've fallen in love, at least it's fatal attraction
[23:11] <TJ-> I've just bought a 3rd one of those talking Asus mobos!
[23:11] <daftykins> :O
[23:11] <daftykins> aren't they an ancient model? :)
[23:12] <TJ-> Yeah, but they have a sound chip that talks to you even when no CPU is plugged in
[23:13] <TJ-> I'm setting up a prank for novice engineers, to teach them to not make assumptions
[23:13] <daftykins> POST reporter \o/ i remember it well
[23:13] <TJ-> Yes!
[23:13] <TJ-> it's caught my fancy terribly, I can't stop giggling when it talks
[23:13] <daftykins> :D
[23:13] <TJ-> I'm going to program custom messages into the eeprom
[23:13] <daftykins> are you going to fix a heatsink on and make them figure out there's no CPU?
[23:14] <TJ-> Then I'm going to challenge those novices to find the CPU and OS that is doing the talking
[23:14] <TJ-> You've got the idea - you're as wicked as me :D
[23:14] <daftykins> XD
[23:14] <daftykins> yeah i taught hardware to teens for a calendar year when my old College was low on staff
[23:15] <daftykins> we'd get donated a lot of old systems from banks locally, since finance is huge in the channel islands
[23:15] <TJ-> they're actually quite decent mobos from a data-recovery/forensics point of view. I keep a stock of older boards around for unusual data recovery controller requirements, so having multiple solutions on 1 mobo keeps the real estate under control
[23:16] <daftykins> ah yeah, like earlier SATA and a JMicron PATA controller on etc?
[23:16] <TJ-> Although I do think the sound should be coming from an onboard speaker, not the audio out port, that confused even me for a while
[23:17] <TJ-> and a separate promise RAID controller
[23:21] <TJ-> I found a schematic for the 2 types of sound output for the Winbond sound chip in its data sheet, so I could make a modification to the boards to enable the use of a beeper/speaker (which I'd also need to fit)
[23:21] <TJ-> Plug in one of those 12V ATX battery supplies directly on the ATX power header, and it'd be self-contained
[23:22] <TJ-> I already use those for lower-powered boards, and without an Athlon drawing power it'd support the mobo power draw
[23:24] <daftykins> :D
[23:25] <daftykins> oh crikey we're talking Socket A/462 ? i didn't think we had to go that far back in history for those boards
[23:25] <TJ-> "Hi, can you fix my new 'laptop' ? "
[23:25] <TJ-> Socket 754
[23:25] <daftykins> ah Athlon64
[23:26] <TJ-> Yes, got some Athlon64 3400+ sitting around so it'll give them something to do if necessary
[23:27] <daftykins> our students had to set each other hardware or software faults to maintain a 'fault log' as support-staff-to-be, the ones that flicked the PSU rockers on those old compaqs/HPs to 110V were a lot more costly than others ;)
[23:29] <TJ-> Ouch!
[23:29] <nicomachus> daftykins: so do you teach CS?
[23:30] <nicomachus> and TJ-?
[23:30] <TJ-> I teach CS
[23:30] <daftykins> nah it was a temporary role at the equivalent of 'A-Level' level, at a local College of further education
[23:31] <nicomachus> ah I see
[23:31] <daftykins> i was a student myself there on my route to University, went back as both IT support and then lectured too
[23:31] <nicomachus> not a bad gig.
[23:31] <TJ-> Well, sort-of. I was at my partner's uni open-day when he was checking out the uni 3 years ago, got talking to what turned out to be the head of compSci, and she asked me to become a visting professor, so I do on-the-side special stuff for those students with real veal
[23:32] <daftykins> ah nice :D
[23:32] <daftykins> that's ideal, then you can operate outside of the bureaucratic paper pushing side of education which imo ruins it all
[23:32] <nicomachus> ^
[23:32] <TJ-> You can probably imagine how hard I am on them about perfection.. my mantra - which drives them mad - is "immersion, immersion, immersion" in the context of the only way to learn something effectively
[23:32] <nicomachus> it's bad enough dealing with that as a student, I can't imagine being on the other side and trying to get stuff done while wading through it.
[23:33] <TJ-> Yes, but I do ruffle feathers!
[23:33] <daftykins> :D
[23:33] <daftykins> best way :)
[23:33] <daftykins> i had sessions where i'd tell them that they should quite IT now if they refused to touch the command line
[23:33] <daftykins> *quit
[23:34] <nicomachus> wat. how can you want to pursue any CS career and refuse to touch the command line?
[23:34] <daftykins> well it wasn't comp sci specific, it was an ICT role in general, so could encompass many areas
[23:34] <daftykins> i taught the 'units' that were networking or hardware related, as that's more my scene
[23:34] <TJ-> Yes, this uni does a lot with Windows so you can imagine I get quite hot-under-the-collar with profs and students attitudes sometimes
[23:35] <daftykins> TJ-: but computers are all just "next,next,next,finish" ;)
[23:35] <TJ-> They're also very big in the Games development industry so my background helps there, too
[23:35] <TJ-> GOTO 1
[23:35] <daftykins> ooh :D
[23:36] <TJ-> The funny part has been I've been doing the work Eddie gets about 3 months ahead of him just so when he comes to me for help I'm not having to try to get instantly up-to-speed :D
[23:36] <daftykins> i remember inspiring some kid so much with a little 'security' lesson which involved nmap usage etc that he's now a pen tester in London
[23:37] <TJ-> Yes, that's the bit that is VERY rewarding, inspiring some genuine talent
[23:37] <nicomachus> networking is something that I'd really like to learn more in-depth...
[23:37] <daftykins> :)
[23:38] <nicomachus> my dad's been a network admin for as long as I can remember, but I never really probed him much about it growing up.
[23:38] <TJ-> networking is the easiest onion I think - as in well-defined layers, easy to peel and reveal to students as you go deeper
[23:38] <daftykins> *nod*
[23:38] <TJ-> CompSci and the applied programming side can be a nightmare because you've got to shield them from the complexity of the tooling to start with, but not have them think a GUI IDE is the only way
[23:39] <TJ-> And when you start mixing in so-called DevOps so you've got to do system admin too, it needs a lot of experience to put together something easy to follow but still deep enough
[23:41] <TJ-> We should start an online IRC university :)
[23:41] <TJ-> squoo.sh.edu
[23:41] <nicomachus> that... would be interesting.
[23:42] <daftykins> :D
[23:43] <TJ-> Hmmm, an A.I. prof-bot
[23:43] <daftykins> can the grading be in virtual cookies?
[23:43] <TJ-> LOL
[23:44] <TJ-> I always thought a really cool uni would be one where from day one the students are working on actual live systems that the uni and students depend on. Really hold their feet to the flames sort of thing so they have to be serious
[23:44] <daftykins> :D
[23:45] <daftykins> we toyed with that idea where i taught, apparently before i started as a student they used to run the IT department separate to the rest of the entire College... so the students had to run their own machines
[23:45] <nicomachus> trial by fire... you either soar or burn
[23:45] <daftykins> the way it ran later was we had to keep swapping out the College systems for the 'training LAN' ones
[23:46] <daftykins> now, i believe they have proper shelves built so they can hook up each one a lot more easily
[23:46] <daftykins> maybe even use both at once
[23:47] <TJ-> Yes, having a decent lab environment with roll-back and duplicates makes a lot of sense, just need to flip a switch port over
[23:48] <daftykins> used to get a broadcast storm loop on the College side at least once a year from it ;)
[23:48] <daftykins> the College depended on using the software from Research Machines (RM) though to manage a Windows AD network, horrible stuff
[23:49] <TJ-> Yes, RM really cornered the education systems in the UK
[23:49] <daftykins> i could understand their position, 3 staff to handle 3 sites with hundreds of students
[23:50] <TJ-> nicomachus: its not so much the burn, although the occassional mistake can do wonders, but its the art of training the person to consider every step and think ahead as to what-ifs rather than blindly going ahead with something without understanding it
[23:50] <TJ-> education has always been under-served on the IT side
[23:51] <daftykins> mmm not enough process orientated education over result based
[23:51] <daftykins> the conclusion some folk jump to with support issues are insane :)
[23:51] <daftykins> *conclusions
[23:52] <nicomachus> "oh, my sound doesn't work. better nuke the whole OS"
[23:52]  * TJ- nods and shudders
[23:52] <nicomachus> like that?
[23:52] <daftykins> pretty much :)
[23:52] <TJ-> This is yet another of the infinite list of reasons for loving free/open-source and Linux
[23:53] <daftykins> that guy earlier reinstalled because his laptop wasn't charging XD
[23:53] <TJ-> At no point below chipset masks is there a place the student cannot dig if they choose to
[23:53] <OerHeks> daftykins, wait, he later admitted he cancelled the upgrade to 15.10 ..
[23:53] <OerHeks> :-D
[23:53] <daftykins> LOL
[23:54] <daftykins> "hey that thing that was not working, i'm gonna go straight back there"
[23:54] <OerHeks> is there still an echo in ubuntu14?
[23:54] <OerHeks> *hips*
[23:54] <TJ-> Microsoft Windows mentality has so much to answer for
[23:54] <daftykins> to be honest kids that claim to know Windows don't even know Windows
[23:55] <TJ-> Mostly they know how to point, click, and burrow through menus
[23:55] <daftykins> that reminds me of another one actually, kids would be all smug about thinking they know how to install Windows as if they know it like it's the back of their hand; i used one as an example by pointing out quite rudely and sharply that he'd failed to even switch the keyboard language to UK from US
[23:56] <daftykins> i think this was back on XP
[23:57] <nicomachus> huh. is there really any difference between US and UK keyboard language?
[23:57] <nicomachus> I've never even thought about that
[23:57] <TJ-> It still horrifies me that I can talk people through the Windows registry blind to fix issues; that really shows how much time I spent in it. I stopped using windows entirely in 2004!
[23:57] <daftykins> yep, plenty
[23:57] <TJ-> nicomachus: yes, a lot.
[23:57] <daftykins> " and @ are swapped for one ;)
[23:57] <TJ-> |\, ~#, $£#
[23:57] <daftykins> i should've said keyboard layout really
[23:58] <nicomachus> yea, looking at a pic now. weird.
[23:58] <daftykins> i can't stand the US layout with | and \ not by the left shift
[23:58] <TJ-> well there's the language too - the yanks always forget to type their "u" in colour, favourite etc
[23:58] <daftykins> above the enter key is just... wat :D
[23:58] <daftykins> TJ-: ;)
[23:59] <nicomachus> what even is that above you `?
[23:59] <nicomachus> s/you/your/


 "Actually, try it with --no-..." <- This makes it run!
[08:36] <BrianHechinger[m> opening meetings from links is still broken, however.
[08:37] <BrianHechinger[m> ```zoommtg://us02web.zoom.us/join?action=join&confno=8890756&pwd=Z0UxOS9kdUlObjUE1VUT09&confid=dXiNDExNjlkMw%3D%3D&browser=chrome```
[08:37] <BrianHechinger[m> in a window that is tltled `Error -- KIO Client`
[14:21] <BrianHechinger[m> OvenWerks: Is there a way to over-ride the settings for studio-controls? I'm being asked to set my buffer size to 48 or 96 by one of the FFADO lads.
[14:27] <Eickmeyer> BrianHechinger[m: You might have to edit the zoom .desktop file in /usr/share/applications to get meeting links to work.
[14:31] <BrianHechinger[m> Well, I managed to make it worse somehow. :-D
[14:54] <Eickmeyer> All you had to do was add "--no-sandbox" to the "Exec:" line, what happened?
[14:55] <BrianHechinger[m> I did that and that made it work
[14:55] <BrianHechinger[m> but in screwing with getting it to launch meetings from a web link now it doesn't do anything at all
[14:55] <BrianHechinger[m> from the web link
[14:55] <BrianHechinger[m> I can still run zoom directly
[14:56] <Eickmeyer> Ohhhhh
[14:56] <Eickmeyer> Weird.
[14:56] <Eickmeyer> Your mimetypes probably got messed up.
[14:56] <BrianHechinger[m> zoommtg is set to always ask in firefox
[14:57] <BrianHechinger[m> but it doesn't matter what I point it at, now nothing at all happens
[14:57] <BrianHechinger[m> I don't even get that error
[14:58] <Eickmeyer> Zoom needs to fix their stuff. *facepalm*
[15:04] <tomreyn> see what the web developer console has to say about it
[15:08] <BrianHechinger[m> Not sure where to look there
[15:08] <BrianHechinger[m> If I choose "use system hander" it pops up the Open with... box
[15:08] <BrianHechinger[m> if I choose zoom from there it behaves like it doesn't have --no-sandbox set
[15:11] <BrianHechinger[m> ok, I have two desktop items, I uninstalled zoom and deleted the one that didn't get removed
[15:12] <BrianHechinger[m> Ok, slightly new behaviort
[15:12] <BrianHechinger[m> s/behaviort/behavior/
[15:13] <BrianHechinger[m> Now I choose system handler, it doesn't ask me to pick one
[15:13] <BrianHechinger[m> but it still acts like it doesn't have --no-sandbox
[15:13] <BrianHechinger[m> I can launch zoom from the start menu whatever that's called in kde
[15:18] <BrianHechinger[m> Ok, I have nuked everything that has anything to do with zoom from my system completely
[15:19] <BrianHechinger[m> now let's install
[15:23] <BrianHechinger[m> It doesn't matter what I do I can't make firefox launch a zoom meeting
[15:37] <OvenWerks> BrianHechinger[m: the only way to do that is to manually edit the config file, in the jack section. I guess studio-controls could also be editted... but I would have to think about where... and any line numbers I gave to you would be out by some hundreds of lines
[15:51] <OvenWerks> BrianHechinger[m: in studio-controls you can search for 'frames =' and add those two values the one that matters should in the def refresh_dropdowns() section, about 60 lines down
[15:59] <BrianHechinger[m> Ok, now it's freezing. Sometimes the entire desktop.
[16:04] <BrianHechinger[m> I reverted the changes and it's still doing it. Time for a reboot i guess.
[16:19] <BrianHechinger[m> reboot helped. don't know what was going on there.
[16:20] <BrianHechinger[m> it really doesn't like 48 or 96
[16:20] <BrianHechinger[m> 48 doesn't even really start
[16:20] <BrianHechinger[m> and 96 starts but ardour just kinda hangs
[16:20] <BrianHechinger[m> oh, just needed to kick it
[17:01] <BrianHechinger[m> Ok, I didn't think that would help, but had to try it anyway because I was asked to.
[17:43] <OvenWerks> BrianHechinger[m: 48/2 is kind of like 32/3 and 96/2 is kind of like 64/3
[17:44] <BrianHechinger[m> This is what he said:... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/e1799912e54e1f67037b0f3f33c82e171b49ea6e)
[17:44] <BrianHechinger[m> I don't know that it really matters or not, but I had to at least try.
[17:47] <OvenWerks> I fully expected to have to use 16/3 with mine (buffer/latency 48) but 16/2 has worked fine. I have sometimes been able run at 16/2 for 3 days with no xruns
[17:48] <OvenWerks> I do know that a lot of jack clients will fail with anything not evenly binary
[17:48] <OvenWerks> zita-* for example
[18:27] <BrianHechinger[m> I just wish I could figure out why this crashes. xruns I can handle. The entire firewire stack falling over I'm completely stumped about.