[01:20] <delinquentme> is anyone in here familar with gits workflow ... I need to know if the branching practices in bzr are similar to git ... and perhaps some examples of how they might differ.
[01:22] <bob2> it's the same
[01:25] <delinquentme> bob2, thats waaaayyy too simplistic to be helpful or true
[01:28] <bob2> it's not
[01:28] <bob2> it's the same except that in bzr a branch is another dir
[01:29] <bob2> (possibly colo is good enough to use now, I don't know)
[01:29] <delinquentme> bob2, well now i've talked to a number of people in here and they're telling me that branches AREN"T additional directories
[01:29] <bob2> as above
[01:34] <delinquentme> bob2, sorry I dont follow?  "as above" ?
[01:35] <bob2> 12:29:25 < delinquentme> bob2, well now i've talked to a number of people in here and they're telling me that branches AREN"T additional directories
[01:35] <bob2> 12:29:05 < bob2> (possibly colo is good enough to use now, I don't know)
[01:35] <bob2> colo = making bzr work like git with easy switching of branches in one """checkout"""
[02:07] <delinquentme> bob2, do you have a online source that states definitively that a branch in normal vanilla bzr creates a new directory with every branch?
[02:37] <delinquentme> bob2,
[02:37] <delinquentme> any chance of definitive statement?
[02:44] <spiv> "vanilla" is a bit of an imprecise terms.
[02:44] <spiv> *term
[02:45] <spiv> The bzr user guide explicitly describes multiple ways of working, with the understanding that the "best" way depends on the circumstances
[02:46] <spiv> And the aspects that people care deeply about differ
[02:46] <spiv> Some people strongly care about "feature branches" (one branch per work task)
[02:46] <spiv> Some people strongly care about reusing the same workspace on disk for everything relating to a project.
[02:47] <spiv> (Some people strongly care about both, for that matter.)
[02:48] <spiv> So when you're asking if the branching practices are like git, I think you need to define your meaning a little more clearly (although I appreciate it's hard without having a thorough understanding of both systems).
[02:49] <spiv> Because in the extreme, it can be interpreted as meaning "I can type 'git frob -x ...' when I want to frob my stuff"
[02:50] <spiv> Or maybe you really want support for pushing a group of related branches in a single operation.  Or maybe you really want trivial support for pushing one branch without worrying about how it may be related to other branches you have.  Etc.
[02:51] <spiv> Which is a long-winded way of saying bob2 is right that it's a simplistic question, even if it doesn't feel like one, so you're unlikely to find the definitive statement you're looking for.
[02:51] <spiv> But perhaps you have more specific questions we can help with?
[05:56] <jelmer> moin
[10:50] <delinquentme> Hey all !  I'm looking for a definitive example of a branching workflow.  I'm used to running with Git and I use substantial branching in my own practices ... basically I'm not sure how branches in BZR work ... and if someone would address the long standing question of whether bazaar branches create their own directories .. that would be awesome
[10:53] <AfC> delinquentme: branches work by ... branching
[10:53] <AfC> delinquentme: and yes, bzr branches live in their own directories. That comes from several design decisions, including wanting to give each branch a URL
[10:54] <delinquentme> AfC, I mean an example haha ... 1) branching 2) committing on both A and B branches 3) specifics on how they differ ... and then conflict resolution between the two
[10:54] <delinquentme> AfC, final answer? I'm guessing you're pretty confident in bzr?
[10:54] <AfC> delinquentme: you can certainly replicate Git's change-branch-in-place behaviour, but you need to take a certain amount of care to set things up to behave.
[10:56] <AfC> delinquentme: everything you're describing is just 3rd generation Distributed Version Control. Any of the modern DVCSen have the same building blocks and the same capabilities.
[10:56] <AfC> bzr is, in our opinion, a lot more explicit about the important things, and, once you "get it" a shit load easier to use, but whatever.
[10:57] <AfC> delinquentme: there are any number of tutorials around, but for instance one I wrote is http://java-gnome.sourceforge.net/HACKING.html
[10:57] <delinquentme> example of the important things?
[10:58] <delinquentme> ok so in this line: $ bzr branch mainline/ working/
[10:58] <delinquentme> this is your branching operation
[10:58] <AfC> whole tree commits, explicit identity of branches and thence ease of comparing branches, merge performance, not shooting you in the foot when you try to resolve conflicts
[10:59] <AfC> delinquentme: yes
[10:59] <AfC> delinquentme: (assuming I already have taken some action to get a "branch" of mainline, which is the case there)
[10:59] <AfC> delinquentme: (the other starting point would have been bzr init mainline/ but that's a bit pointless here)
[11:00] <AfC> delinquentme: http://research.operationaldynamics.com/bzr/quill/ ← lots o branches
[11:01] <delinquentme> yeah i'm on about ... the local editing of existing branches
[11:01] <AfC> one of which is mainline and "more special" but only by convention. Branches are peers.
[11:01] <AfC> delinquentme: well, once you've got _commits_ in different branches
[11:01] <AfC> delinquentme: (that have therefore diverged)
[11:01] <delinquentme> yeap
[11:01] <AfC> delinquentme: you can then do things like
[11:01] <AfC> $ bzr missing --line ../other
[11:02] <AfC> which tells you what revisions exist on each
[11:02] <AfC> another stalwart is
[11:02] <AfC> $ bzr diff -r ancestor:../mainline
[11:02] <AfC> which shows you a diff not against the current branch's committed state
[11:02] <AfC> (Whchi is what bzr diff does straight up)
[11:03] <delinquentme> which is essentially is what commits is the current branch lacking from those in mainline
[11:03] <AfC> but instead against whatever the common ancestor is between the two branches. It is, in effect, a merge prediction
[11:03] <AfC> delinquentme: yes, that's `missing`
[11:03] <AfC> and with that, my ferry has landed. Excuse me.
[12:10] <jml> hey
[12:10] <jml> I want a command like lp-propose, but that adds an approval vote with some trivial text (e.g. "rubberstamp") and also sets the approved revision on the status of the merge proposal
[12:11] <jml> this is because we use tarmac for landing branches, and there's a non-trivial class of branches that we wish to land without requiring code review.
[12:11] <jml> it seems pretty straightforward to implement
[12:11] <jml> *but*
[12:11] <jml> I can think of a couple of ways I might do it
[12:11] <jml> a) totally new command
[12:12] <jml> b) a new option to lp-propose ('--vote Approve', maybe?), along with a fix to --approved behaviour to set revid
[12:13] <jml> c) a separate command for reviewing merge proposals
[12:14] <jml> d) change the behaviour of --approved on lp-propose to also add a trivial comment & approve vote (as well as setting revid)
[12:14] <jml> c) is most flexible, I think. d) is most convenient for my use case.
[12:14] <mgz> does it want to be a bzr thing at all?
[12:15] <mgz> with lp-propose you always have the branch you want to make an mp from right there, and it probably needs pushing
[12:15] <mgz> but at best with reviewing you've got a copy of the other person's branch you'rve just run tests on, and the only change you want to make it to launchpad via it's api
[12:15] <mgz> *is to
[12:16] <jml> mgz: remember the use case is to push, propose and rubberstamp my own branch
[12:16] <mgz> we want to encourage that? :)
[12:16] <jml> mgz: so, insofar as lp-propose already partly caters to this use case by having an --approve option
[12:16] <mgz> I'd extend lp-propose then, for that case.
[12:17] <mgz> but not try and do the general case.
[12:18] <jml> mgz: cool, I'm in favour of that.
[12:19] <jml> phone
[12:59] <jml> mgz: in testtools, there's a check that says if sys.version_info > (3, 3), expect "PermissionError". However, in actual released Python 3.3, it seems to be FileExistsError.
[12:59] <jml> mgz: in t.tests.test_testresult.TestNonAsciiResults.test_os_error
[13:00] <jml> mgz: naively, I'd change this to FileExistsError and remove the PermissionError branch. Do you know of a reason for me keeping a PermissionError branch to the conditional?
[13:03] <mgz> I'll have a quick look and see
[13:04] <jml> mgz: thanks.
[13:05] <mgz> hm, that's a little icky
[13:06] <mgz> it's probably platform dependant
[13:10] <mgz> could make it assertThat(self._as_output(textoutput), MatchesRegex("(?:Permission|FileExists)Error: "))
[13:10] <mgz> I think that will still get the str/unicode stuff right
[14:00] <delinquentme> whats the closest bzr operation to a rebase?
[14:04] <gmarkall> there's a rebase plugin
[14:05] <gmarkall> although, it doesn't do interactive rebase afaik
[14:15] <jml> mgz: thanks. I'll do that.
[14:24] <LeoNerd> There is rebase, and it's just as rude as it is in git
[14:27] <mgz> jml: reviewed, one similar issue noted
[14:27] <jml> mgz: oh, thanks.
[15:05] <lifeless> mgz: btw, lots of testtools discussions also happen in #subunit.
[15:27] <delinquentme> LeoNerd, its just as rude?
[15:36] <LeoNerd> It rewrites history
[15:36] <LeoNerd> It throws away previously-committed revisions and replaces them with other ones
[16:17] <delinquentme> so I thought I've run merges on bzr before and it annotated the differences within a single file?
[16:18] <delinquentme> with <<<<< [16:32] <delinquentme> So I've got a .BASE .OTHER and a .THIS
[16:32] <delinquentme> :P
[16:33] <delinquentme> what all is going on heeere
[16:53] <delinquentme> ok so If i run a $ bzr merge ../some_branch  ... and then im going through the files ...   the conflicts labeled as " TREE " are those which were on the trunk ( being that I merged some_branch INTO trunk ) ... and those labeled as MERGE-SOURCE .. were those bits of code which were in the some_branch
[16:53] <delinquentme> right/
[17:52] <awolf> Hi folks, I'm a maintainer of a daily build of a package, and I use a source recipe on Launchpad, and I super love it and it's great.
[17:52] <awolf> However, I need to make some changes to the recipe, so I'm rebuilding the environment on my local PC so I can test changes locally.
[17:52] <awolf> I am finding that even when I modify the recipe to use bzr repos that are on my harddrive, they're abysmally slow.
[17:53] <awolf> I've got a relatively beefy machine, ssd, and while doing a bzr dailydeb build where the recipe points to bzr repos that are only located on my machine, not lp: or over a network, I'm getting occasional timeouts!
[17:53] <awolf> The timeout aren't happening every time, so I don't think I'm pointing to the wrong place--it geniuinely looks like a timeout.
[17:54] <awolf> Any thoughts?
[18:28] <delinquentme> bzr uncommit -r -3  this backs out to commit revno 3?
[18:28] <delinquentme> or back 3 commits from the most current?
[18:31] <beuno> delinquentme, should undelete the last 3 revnos
[22:24] <delinquentme> hey all .. whats the modification I need to make to $bzr log to only get a few of the last commits ?
[22:25] <mgrandi_> look at bzr help revisionspec
[22:25] <mgrandi_> can limit the amount of commits you are looking through there
[22:31] <delinquentme> mgrandi_, theres no ... just .. argument like a " -4 " I can add??
[22:31] <delinquentme> seems silly/
[22:34] <jelmer> delinquentme: --limit 4 ?
[22:35] <delinquentme> jelmer, bzr log -l 4
[22:35] <delinquentme> awesome
[23:51] <danielbrauer> Hello, I'm running Bazaar on Mac OS, and running into this issue: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-explorer/+bug/926439
[23:51] <danielbrauer> I see that there is a patch there, but I'm not sure what to do with it.
[23:52] <danielbrauer> Having used the disk image to install Bazaar, I'm actually not sure where all of its python files reside.
[23:56] <mgrandi_> one sec
[23:59] <mgrandi_> the directory you want to apply the patch is /Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/bzrlib/plugins/explorer
[23:59] <mgrandi_> the lib file is in there
[23:59] <mgrandi_> err directory
[23:59] <danielbrauer> Thanks, looking now.


[00:32] <MutantTurkey> jedijf: got my laptop ordered.
[00:36] <jedijf> MutantTurkey: tell more
[00:36] <jedijf> which
[00:36] <jedijf> and congrats!
[00:38] <MutantTurkey> x220
[00:38] <MutantTurkey> with the it 2420m
[00:38] <MutantTurkey> i5'
[00:39] <MutantTurkey> I was debating getting the slice battery, but I am got the 9cell
[00:39] <MutantTurkey> jedijf: by the looks of your response it's as if I got a new dog, or wife, or car. not a computer haha
[00:42] <jedijf> dude...i just read a cnet review, it's better than that other stuff you mentioned
[00:42] <jedijf> hands down
[00:42] <MutantTurkey> I know
[00:42] <MutantTurkey> I am psyched
[00:42] <jedijf> i meant dog wife or car
[00:42] <MutantTurkey> that too.
[00:43] <jedijf> and its sooooo thinkpad
[00:43] <MutantTurkey> I know
[00:43] <MutantTurkey> I was thinking the edge, but it's just Meh
[00:43] <jedijf> i excited for you
[00:43] <MutantTurkey> i am excited to run linux on a non-ghetto system
[00:43] <MutantTurkey> I can actually use new features and run Gnome and things!
[00:43] <jedijf> expectations lead to resentments
[00:44] <MutantTurkey> lol
[00:44] <MutantTurkey> I am definitely still doing arch
[00:44] <MutantTurkey> I had a half second though of trying ubuntu... I dunno
[00:44] <MutantTurkey> Unity seems cool though, but I don't know if the workflow is any good.
[00:44] <jedijf> it actually is
[00:44] <MutantTurkey> I was on a Mac all summer and I am finally getting back into a regular workflow
[00:44] <jedijf> once you get used to it
[00:44] <MutantTurkey> I need tiling really badly
[00:45] <jedijf> i am better on unity than gnome3; but that's just because of usage
[00:45] <MutantTurkey> gnome3 is not usable imho
[00:45] <MutantTurkey> and also doesn't have any config (wtf?)
[00:45] <MutantTurkey> every new version the options get dumbed down more and more
[00:45] <jedijf> unity on my pacs netty get used all night; gnome3 is sitting on my arch box in the cave, but rarely use xwin on it
[00:45] <MutantTurkey> I want more options not less!
[00:46] <MutantTurkey> once I get a laptop, this Atom is going to be my file server.
[00:46] <MutantTurkey> debating about dropping my VPS now that I could have a dedicated server.
[00:46] <jedijf> your new one is 12.5?
[00:46] <jedijf> inch
[00:46] <MutantTurkey> yes
[00:46] <jedijf> omg
[00:47] <jedijf> envy
[00:47] <MutantTurkey> you better be envious
[00:47] <MutantTurkey> though I ran me a LOT. like 1117.42
[00:47] <MutantTurkey> but Drexel discount helpeed
[00:47] <jedijf> wow
[00:48] <jedijf> envy disappeared; almost instantly
[00:48] <MutantTurkey> yeah...
[00:48] <MutantTurkey> it's well worth it!
[00:48] <MutantTurkey> I mean base config was like 800 bucks, but I need to get all the flashy stuff!
[00:48] <jedijf> i can get 150'ish lappys for that
[00:48] <MutantTurkey> yeah.
[00:48] <MutantTurkey> I figure, 1 good investment is better than 50 crappy
[00:48] <MutantTurkey> I am using this as my new motto.
[00:49] <jedijf> yeah...it is
[00:49] <MutantTurkey> like my guitar, cost 750 bucks, but it will last forever.
[00:50] <MutantTurkey> dooode 14 hour battery lifeee is gonna be awesome
[00:50] <waltman> We've got a Drexel discount?
[00:51] <jedijf> waltman: he used yours :P
[00:51] <MutantTurkey> waltman: yes!
[00:51] <MutantTurkey> we do
[00:51] <MutantTurkey> go on one.drexel.edu
[00:51] <teddy-dbear> can I get a teddy bear discount?
[00:51] <MutantTurkey> regular login -> community link -> bottom right hand
[00:51]  * waltman checks
[00:52] <MutantTurkey> teddy-dbear: are you a member of the linux foundation?
[00:52] <MutantTurkey>  I think they have discounts too..
[00:52] <MutantTurkey> also, I think if you just barrowed the link from someone it works, there is not ID needed past the link
[00:52] <teddy-dbear> I'm a member unto myself :-D
[00:53] <MutantTurkey> indeed
[00:53] <waltman> the community link is all athletics and the triangle
[00:53] <MutantTurkey> uh
[00:53] <MutantTurkey> hold up
[00:54] <MutantTurkey> under drexel
[00:54] <MutantTurkey>  ithink
[00:54] <MutantTurkey> yep
[00:54] <jedijf> uh oh, 1100.00 jock strap?
[00:54] <MutantTurkey> under drexel.
[00:54] <MutantTurkey> 404 jock strap more like.
[00:56] <waltman> Ah, that!
[00:56] <waltman> You don't necessarily need to go through that. I bought my macbook tax-free with a student discount at the apple store at the Christiana Mall in Delaware.
[00:57] <waltman> If you don't want to go that far, you can also go to the computer store in the Penn book store.
[01:03] <MutantTurkey> waltman: schvat?
[01:03] <MutantTurkey> I mean... I ordered it online, drexel gave me a 10% discount, so thats like 120 bucks (and i don't even go to drexel xD)
[01:04] <waltman> schvat? what does that mean?
[01:04] <MutantTurkey> it means what but with an schv
[01:04] <waltman> Drexel didn't make you login?
[01:04] <MutantTurkey> waltman: they did, I was a summer intern - therefore I have access
[01:04] <waltman> I assumed you were a Drexel student :)
[01:04] <waltman> ah
[01:04] <MutantTurkey> :) nope
[01:04] <MutantTurkey> I go to MCCC
[01:10] <ChinnoDog> Someone tell a good joke
[01:10] <jedijf> windows 8
[01:11] <MutantTurkey> windows 8 is awesome
[01:11] <MutantTurkey> I am fully convinced that it will bring flash down completely!
[01:11] <MutantTurkey> lesser of two evils is microsoft
[01:11] <MutantTurkey> :|
[01:11]  * MutantTurkey pokerface
[01:12] <ChinnoDog> ...
[01:16] <MutantTurkey> cmon that is at least one good side of windows 8
[01:16] <rmg51> time will tell
[01:29] <waltman> A pirate walks into a bar...
[01:31] <waltman> ...and he's got a ship's wheel attached to the front of his trousers.  The bartender asks, "What's that ship's wheel doing attached to your trousers?"
[01:31] <waltman> The pirate replies, "I don't know, but it's drivin' me nuts!"
[01:31] <waltman> I'll be here all week.
[01:32] <teddy-dbear> I won't :-/
[01:32] <waltman> Tough crowd.
[01:57] <MutantTurkey> let me give it a shot
[01:58] <MutantTurkey> so MutantTurkey is digging a trench around his house to work on the landscaping,
[01:58] <MutantTurkey> while standing 5 feet in dirt, the neighbor (very annoying) says "wow I see you are doing a lot of work"
[01:58] <MutantTurkey> so i said "well, I am knee deep in S***
[01:58] <MutantTurkey> that is my funny story of the day
[02:00]  * teddy-dbear waits for the funny part
[02:02] <MutantTurkey> ...
[02:02] <MutantTurkey> that was the joke.
[02:03] <MutantTurkey> you know, standing in a hole of dirt.
[02:03] <MutantTurkey> says KNEE deep in s***
[02:03] <MutantTurkey> that was sort of a funny joke
[02:03] <MutantTurkey> anyoe familiar with Sak on linux?
[02:05]  * teddy-dbear wanders off to bed
[02:05] <MutantTurkey> :[
[02:05] <MutantTurkey> I'll be here all night!
[02:11] <MutantTurkey> ...
[02:11] <MutantTurkey> well he's a quitter. that's it.
[02:52] <MutantTurkey> I am a quitter too. 10:52 feels like 4am 0_0
[03:07] <ChinnoDog> quitters
[03:14] <andrew> arr
[03:14] <andrew> avast ye scalywags
[03:41] <ChinnoDog> why did rocket2dmn deactivate himself?
[03:44] <InHisName> I have issues with 11.04 - NONE of the installers work all have crash bug start when trying to use.   So I have choice in 11.04 install disk:   Upgrade 11.04 to 11.04      .....    OR .....     Wipe out 11.04 and install 11.04
[03:45] <jthan> Did you back up your stuff?
[03:50] <InHisName> 72gigs worth Plus list of installs via apt-get saved away.   Should do it all.
[03:52] <InHisName> SOooo, do I try the upgrade or the wipeout and replace ?
[03:57] <InHisName> Sandman's got all of you blottoed for the night?
[03:59] <InHisName> Pumpkin time !
[04:00] <InHisName> ZZZZzzzzzzssssss
[04:10] <pleia2> ChinnoDog: well, he lives in new jersey
[04:10] <pleia2> some people leave teams when they move away ;)
[04:11] <ChinnoDog> oic
[04:55] <pleia2> btw, I'm going to be in Philly on 11.10 release day :)
[04:55] <andrew> when's that again?
[04:55] <pleia2> oct 13
[04:55] <andrew> hmm
[04:55] <pleia2> we should haz party
[04:55] <pleia2> I will be staying downtown
[04:56] <andrew> as long as it's not saturday evening (or sunday morning) unless you want to hold it out where I'll be...
[04:56] <pleia2> the 13th is thursday evening
[04:56] <pleia2> I'll be around saturday though
[08:34] <JonathanD>  morning
[08:58] <rmg51> morning JonathanD
[09:10] <JonathanD> hey rmg51
[09:10] <rmg51> o/
[09:13] <JonathanD> Whats up?
[09:16] <rmg51> just us :-D
[09:16] <rmg51> to early for much to be going on
[09:17] <JonathanD> indeed.
[09:17] <rmg51> just reading the paper and getting ready for work
[09:21] <JonathanD> I could use some coffee.
[09:21] <JonathanD> But the place isn't open yet.
[09:32] <rmg51> you don't know how to make your own?
[09:33] <JonathanD> I don't have any.
[09:34] <rmg51> :'(
[11:37] <jedijf> JonathanD: didn't i leave coffee at fosscon?
[11:37] <jedijf> at least some
[11:55] <jedijf> pleia2: we'll have to do a Center City release party!@!!! and a qmart one too, later, with disks
[11:58] <waltman> qmart!
[12:01] <jedijf> your tractor will rock unity release party
[12:03] <teddy-dbear> morning
[12:03] <jedijf> i'm thinking barcade for the pleia2 release party in cc, if they get open
[12:06] <jedijf> http://www.thefeast.com/philadelphia/restaurants/FEAST-EAT-PHI-Philly-Barcade-Bringing-Beer-BurgerTime-to-Fishtown-128462808.html
[12:17] <JonathanD> jedijf: yes.
[12:17] <JonathanD> jedijf: I forgot about that.
[12:17] <JonathanD> It's in my box-o-foss-stuff.
[12:17] <JonathanD> I think.
[13:07] <jedijf> rabbi fight is now way to start tuesday
[13:07] <jedijf> s/now/no
[13:16] <JonathanD> I need an HDD.
[13:20] <jthan> JonathanD: newegg daily deals
[13:20] <JonathanD> mayhaps.
[13:20] <JonathanD> The low end ones are only $40 anyway on newegg.
[13:21] <jthan> Yeah. I'm pretty picky about my drives.
[13:21] <JonathanD> This is for a T60 I have sitting around.
[13:21] <JonathanD> I'm not even sure what I'll use it for. Don't want to go nuts on it.
[13:21] <jthan> I don't know why. I have mirrored backups now, and it's not like I use windows to worry about using my product key too many times if I had to reinstall :-p
[13:22] <JonathanD> I think in this case cheaper is better.
[13:22] <JonathanD> My money goes into the T61, not the T60
[13:23] <jthan> andrew: you do mirrored backups, right? If so - what method do you use?
[13:24] <jthan> My way is just rigged - I have a bunch of bash scripts that just use rsync to keep folders in sync across drives.
[13:24]  * jthan is going off on a tangent
[13:24] <InHisName> G'mawnin'
[13:24] <JonathanD> I think I'll get more ram for the 61, move it's ram to the 60, and get a cheap disk.
[13:25] <jthan> What kind of disk are you really looking for? If you're really looking for "cheap" there's a whole bunch sitting in my computer room
[13:25] <JonathanD> $149 for the ram.
[13:25] <JonathanD> jthan: well, I wanted to have this thing around as a spare... for the kids to mess on, or for my parents when they go to the shore.
[13:26] <JonathanD> It'll probably have to be a dual boot since they'll want windows. So "big enough" for that, but thats it.
[13:26] <jthan> I think I have a 250GB drive out of a dell sitting right now
[13:26] <jthan> But I'd have to check to verify that
[13:26] <JonathanD> SATA 2.5 inch?
[13:26] <jthan> I do believe, yes.
[13:26] <JonathanD> I think the 60 is sata, anyway.
[13:26] <JonathanD> I had a 160 in my desk but I just fired it up and it looks very broken.
[13:26] <JonathanD> clicky clicky broken.
[13:26] <jthan> Hate when that happens.
[13:27] <jthan> Anyhow, if you can use it and I do indeed have it, you're welcome to it.
[13:27] <jthan> Because obviously I'm not using it.
[13:27] <JonathanD> That would make me happy.
[13:27] <JonathanD> I hate to see a thinkpad not working :P
[13:27] <JonathanD> It was working, mind. When it was given to me it had a 200GB solid state.
[13:28] <JonathanD> But thats in my 61 now.
[13:28] <JonathanD> and the disk from my 61 is acting funny.
[13:28] <jthan> If you think of it, PM me later and remind me to check when I get home tonight. I won't get home til about 10 probably.
[13:28] <InHisName> I have issues with 11.04 on my spare computer  - NONE of the installers work all have crash bug start when trying to use.   So I have choice in 11.04 install disk:   Upgrade 11.04 to 11.04      .....    OR .....     Wipe out 11.04 and install 11.04.   /home backed up and saved list of installed goodies from apt-get.
[13:28] <JonathanD> as in "writing" stuff that can't be read later.
[13:28] <JonathanD> ok.
[13:29] <JonathanD> I'm confused.
[13:29] <JonathanD> YOu have 11.04, but the 11.04 disk doesn't work?
[13:29] <jthan> No - aptitude/apt-get aren't working
[13:29] <InHisName> yes, the 1104 installed has broken.  Needs to be fixed.
[13:29] <JonathanD> ah
[13:29] <JonathanD> that makes more sense.
[13:30] <jthan> InHisName: Where is your /home backed up? If it's on a seperate partition you should be able to keep it in tact when you reinstall.
[13:30] <jthan> If not, you just have to move the files back after your install from wherever your /home is
[13:31] <InHisName> So, I have choice on 11.04 disk:   upgrade 11.04 to 11.04        ---- or    -------   wipeout partition and install fresh new.
[13:31] <jthan> install fresh
[13:35] <InHisName>    /home is backed up to a networked drive on another box.   I have copy of all installed goodies from apt-get saved in file.  I can use that to REinstall everything.      Why skip over the upgrade same to same ?   Any rationale ?
[13:35] <jthan> Doesn't make sense, might not eliminate the problem.
[13:35] <jthan> Why not take the safe road and start fresh?
[13:36] <InHisName> So You take the do it ONCE and for all and be DONE with it!  method.
[13:37] <InHisName> Probably the best justification of them all.
[13:37] <jthan> Yes. That's how I work.
[13:45] <erstazi> has anyone ever seen a DVD that is larger than 6GB? or is DD just running wild?
[13:48] <InHisName> aren't double sided at 9GB ?
[13:49] <erstazi> InHisName: yes, but this is single sided (: I think /bin/dd was running wild!
[13:49] <InHisName> OH,
[13:50] <InHisName> I am trying to reinstall ubuntu.   The partition is lvm.    I've installed in liveCD lvm2.  What else do I need to do to get the partition visible to the installer ?
[13:51] <InHisName> /dev/sda9   needs to be connected into lvm somehow
[13:52] <InHisName> erstazi: I assme it is NOT blu-ray
[13:52] <InHisName> s/ss/ssu/
[13:54] <erstazi> InHisName: nope. just a data DVD. I think /bin/dd was just running wild
[13:55] <InHisName> bettern' girls gone wild ?
[13:55] <erstazi> probably, who knows (:
[14:51] <erstazi> so, this is even more odd, in Win2k3, it says it is 7.54 GB!
[14:52] <ChinnoDog> Standard dual layer single sided DVD is 8.4gb. Why is this surprising?
[14:52] <erstazi> ChinnoDog: this is single layer
[14:53] <erstazi> also, it is a very highly proprietary CD.
[14:53] <ChinnoDog> What is this an install CD for?
[14:54] <erstazi> ChinnoDog: um, let me PM you. Do you mind?
[14:54] <ChinnoDog> np
[15:57] <ChinnoDog> sup lamalex
[18:36] <ChinnoDog> bts3685|vps: Why has thee forsaken us? I'm going to be in Nola next month. Are you living there or what?
[18:37] <jedijf> why did you give him time to pack
[18:37] <ChinnoDog> Should I have hunted him down without telling him? lol
[18:39] <jedijf> facebook him
[18:53] <JonathanD> jthan: would you have use for 2x2GB laptop DDR3?
[20:26] <pvl1> hello
[20:53] <ChinnoDog> hi pvl1
[20:57] <pvl1> hello
[20:57] <pvl1> whats up
[22:09] <rmg51> flame wars++
[22:09] <SamuraiAlba> Good bacon to all!
[23:03] <GeekyAdam> ...um...
[23:03] <GeekyAdam> why does it say im still logged in as Adom?
[23:25] <Adom> that's better


[14:19] <luna_> https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20230818/mantic-desktop-amd64.iso this iso seems broken https://i.imgur.com/hwvg3lf.png
[14:21] <luna_> got help from jbicha the one from yesterday works


[10:02] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: yo
[10:02] <Mithrandir> dude!
[10:02] <Keybuk> right, so yes
[10:02] <Keybuk> readahead
[10:02] <Mithrandir> so, what's your plans for readahead?
[10:02] <Keybuk> mdz gave me this to overhaul as part of streamlined-boot
[10:03] <Keybuk> so my general problems with it were
[10:03] <Mithrandir> (and what does  mean?)
[10:03] <Keybuk> 1) wayyy out of date lists
[10:03] <Keybuk> 2) insufficient runs
[10:03] <Keybuk> 3) doesn't block-order its lists at the right time
[10:03] <Keybuk> (shutdown is not a point to do important things)
[10:03] <Keybuk> etc.
[10:04] <Keybuk> so my basic design for it was
[10:04] <Keybuk> - each package that includes an init.d script includes a file in /var/lib/readahead or similar listing the files it reads from
[10:04] <Keybuk> - readahead includes an audit tool that you can drop into a script to generate these files (using strace-parent, maps, etc. magic)
[10:04] <Keybuk> - each package also runs update-readahead in postinst
[10:05] <Keybuk> - that looks at rcS.d/rc2.d, picks the files from /var/lib/readahead, joins them together, and orders by block number
[10:05] <Mithrandir> I was thinking just having something in initramfs which uses inotify to record everything which is opened.  List is saved at the end of the boot (or after five minutes) and reused next time.
[10:05] <Keybuk> inotify can't record when files are opened, and how they're opened?
[10:06] <Keybuk> and can only monitor one filesystem at a time
[10:06] <Mithrandir> #define IN_OPEN			0x00000020	/* File was opened */
[10:06] <Mithrandir> huh?  You can monitor as many file systems as you want?
[10:06] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: doesn't say whether it's for reading, writing, etc.
[10:06] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: yes, but then you need to monitor each filesystem as it's mounted
[10:06] <Keybuk> and there's no "filesystem mounted" event
[10:07] <Mithrandir> true, but that's possible to work around.
[10:07] <Mithrandir> the readahead might need to do multiple passes anyway.
[10:08] <Keybuk> yeah, I want to do a "very early" readahead pass
[10:08] <Keybuk> one after /usr is probably mounted
[10:08] <Keybuk> and maybe a final "gdm is up, now what?" push
[10:08] <Keybuk> and it's harder to split results of a single monitor if you do that
[10:09] <Keybuk> also on LiveCD where would you save the lists? :p
[10:09] <Keybuk> and where would you get the initial list?
[10:09] <Mithrandir> boot initially, upload it somewhere and we'd use a sample to decide what to put into the list.
[10:09] <Keybuk> but they won't be in anything like the right order for a real install
[10:09] <Mithrandir> not really, if you have a list of files to be readahead, do readahead on the ones which exist, then wait for some more to come into existence, then readahead those, repeat until all files have been read.
[10:10] <Kamion> I think I prefer Keybuk's approach - less likely to drift over time
[10:10] <Keybuk> which means the first boot (only boot for reviewers) is evily slow
[10:10] <Kamion> stuff that requires us to kick it every so often has a history of bitrotting (e.g., er, readahead)
[10:11] <Mithrandir> you'll end up readahead-ing the entirely wrong files in a lot of cases, though.  Like, if you change your language, the localised files should be read ahead, not the english ones.
[10:11] <Kamion> for init scripts?
[10:11] <Mithrandir> huh?
[10:11] <Kamion> they aren't localised at the moment
[10:11] <Kamion> and what remains sounds like a relatively small number of files
[10:12] <Kamion> if need be, just readahead all the alternatives?
[10:13] <Mithrandir> well, I was going to reuse my hack for faster gnome startup.
[10:13] <Mithrandir> so you just say "record" at the start of the session, then "stop, give me the list of files" at the end
[10:13] <Mithrandir> and then use that list next time aroud.
[10:13] <Mithrandir> around, even
[10:14] <Keybuk> that's what we did to get the current useless lists though
[10:14] <Keybuk> they need more filtering than inotify provides
[10:14] <Keybuk> readinf /var/log/Xorg.0.log is kinda pointless, for example
[10:14] <Keybuk> as with things like the font caches, etc.
[10:17] <Mithrandir> you can see if the file was opened rw or not on close, though..
[10:17] <Keybuk> it's also a bitch to find out _what_ opened it ;)
[10:17] <Mithrandir> why do we care, really?
[10:17] <Mithrandir> about who opened something
[10:17] <Keybuk> if we have multiple readahead phases
[10:19] <Mithrandir> well, I would advocate not having that
[10:19] <Keybuk> why not?
[10:19] <Keybuk> during the boot, we have three useful points where there's no disk I/P
[10:19] <Keybuk> uh, I/O
[10:19] <Keybuk> those seem the best bits to do readahead blips
[10:21] <Mithrandir> if we do readahead right, we should end up with about zero I/O outside readahead anyway, shouldn't we?
[10:23] <Keybuk> not necessarily
[10:23] <Keybuk> e.g. fsck ;)
[10:23] <Mithrandir> true, but that's a no-op in the usual case today.
[10:25] <Mithrandir> (in the usual case that you don't run a full fsck, which you usually don't)
[10:27] <Keybuk> depends on the fs
[10:27] <Keybuk> ext3 seems to use a lot of io to check its journal, for example
[10:28] <Mithrandir> isn't readahead prioritised below other I/O ops anyway?  If not, can we make it?
[10:29] <Keybuk> I still don't like your solution though ;)
[10:29] <Keybuk> it doesn't do anything for LiveCD
[10:30] <Keybuk> because by its very definition, you have nowhere to write the updated lists
[10:30] <Keybuk> and I think it'll actually slow up the ordinary system boot by reading files that aren't necessary
[10:31] <Mithrandir> because it'll readahead Xorg.log?
[10:33] <Keybuk> because it'll readahead things at the wrong times
[10:33] <Keybuk> you can very easily over-readahead
[10:33] <Keybuk> so it takes longer to do that, then it would to read them normally
[10:35] <Mithrandir> I just think maintaining those lists by hand is going to suck and be based on a bunch of guesses more than anything else.
[10:35] <Keybuk> ie. if the time to do the readahead is greater than the benefit of doing so, then you lose
[10:35] <Keybuk> thom and I find when first doing it that you had to write them by hand
[10:35] <Keybuk> because the automatic ones didn't give you much benefit
[10:36] <Keybuk> they just shifted the I/O about
[10:37] <Mithrandir> well, it really is about shifting the I/O about. :-)  You'll always end up reading at least the same amount as before.
[10:40] <Keybuk> another problem I can forsee with your idea is failed boots
[10:40] <Keybuk> the next boot, you'll end up readaheading all the things you used to fix the last boot
[10:40] <Keybuk> etc.
[10:40] <Mithrandir> possibly, yes.
[10:40] <Keybuk> or switching between kernels will have similar issues
[10:40] <Mithrandir> it reduces the stability of the boot lenght.
[10:40] <Mithrandir> length, even
[10:40] <Keybuk> to me, this really does cry out to be a package-level thing ;)
[10:41] <Keybuk> here's my (automatically generated and manually weeded) list of things I cause to be read in each package
[10:41] <Keybuk> lang packs would include those too
[12:53] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: we can try with your method, I guess.  When will you have it ready? :-)
[05:36] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: been playing all afternoon so far <g>
[05:37] <Keybuk> I like yours now, much easier to code than mine
[05:37] <Keybuk> in fact, I have a cunning idea for a "profile" command-line option that enables both readahead profiling and boot charting
[05:37] <Keybuk> so we could ship bootchart by default <g>
[05:59] <Mithrandir> you do know that bootchart doesn't do anything by default now?
[05:59] <Keybuk> this might explain something
[06:00] <Keybuk> you know we have a mailing list?  ubuntu-devel-announce
[06:00] <Keybuk> for when you change that kind of thing <g>
[06:00] <Keybuk> users have been complaining at me for the last few days that bootchart stopped working, haven't got around to investigating yet
[06:00] <Keybuk> you could've had a small nuke thrown at you :p
[06:00] <Mithrandir> you know, it's in the bloody changelog.
[06:00] <Keybuk> who reads those?! :p
[06:00] <Mithrandir> I, at least.
[06:01] <Mithrandir> especially if I wonder why something changes.
[06:01] <Keybuk> meh, any particular reason you disabled it?
[06:01] <Mithrandir> yes, it's on the live cd.
[06:01] <Keybuk> why always?
[06:01] <Mithrandir> because there's no way to know you're on a live cd when bootchart runs.
[06:01] <Mithrandir> it's just adding a small bootchart=enable to run it.
[06:02] <Keybuk> oh, of course, you can't add it to the live cd
[06:02] <Keybuk> lol
[06:02] <Mithrandir> or bootchart=upload to upload the graph.
[06:02] <Keybuk> upload the graph where? :p
[06:02] <Mithrandir> bootchart.err.no
[06:02] <Mithrandir> _that_ on the other hand, should probably have gone to u-d-a. :-P
[06:02] <Keybuk> heh, given the amount of stuff I'm doing with boot charting right now ....
[06:02] <Keybuk> it would've been nice if you'd at least told _me_ about that :p
[06:02] <Keybuk> but yes, that should go to u-d-a
[06:02] <Keybuk> could you mail it? :p
[06:02] <Mithrandir> I did this change a month or so ago.
[06:02] <Mithrandir> sure
[06:03] <Keybuk> I guess they can't be tagged distro/not-distro ?
[06:03] <Keybuk> err
[06:03] <Keybuk> live/real
[06:03] <Mithrandir> sure
[06:03] <Keybuk> otherwise it's hard to keep track
[06:03] <Mithrandir> bootchart=enable,$tag
[06:03] <Mithrandir> iirc
[06:03] <Mithrandir> sorry, upload,$tag
[06:04] <Keybuk> :)
[06:04] <Keybuk> now, send that mail, bitch :D
[06:06] <Mithrandir> bootchart (0.9-0ubuntu5) dapper; urgency=low
[06:06] <Mithrandir>   * Add bootchart=disabled and bootchart=upload,$type arguments which will
[06:06] <Mithrandir>     respectively disable bootcharting and upload charts to
[06:06] <Mithrandir>     bootchart.err.no.
[06:06] <Mithrandir>  -- Tollef Fog Heen<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:52:35 +0100
[06:06] <Mithrandir> so, about a month ago wasn't that bad.
[06:06] <Mithrandir> you haven't touched bootchart since Nov 30th. :-P
[06:06] <Mithrandir> but sure, I'll send da mail
[06:08] <Keybuk> I haven't updated my laptop properly since before xmas, no
[06:08] <Keybuk> so hadn't picked up that new version yet
[06:09] <Keybuk> is it enabled or disabled by default?
[06:09] <Mithrandir> hmm
[06:09] <Mithrandir> it's enabled by default
[06:09] <Mithrandir> grep -q "bootchart=disable" /proc/cmdline && exit 0
[06:10] <Mithrandir> so it's not my fault. :-P
[06:10] <Mithrandir> doko's probably broken gcj or something
[06:10] <Keybuk> you're so going in the dry dock <g>
[06:10] <Mithrandir> I can't remember random changes I did a month ago
[06:10] <Mithrandir> (without looking at changelogs, etc)
[06:11] <Keybuk> I do, perhaps, think that holding a distro team sprint in an area with amble bodies of still water is a *bad* idea
[06:11] <Mithrandir> why? :-)
[06:19] <Keybuk> amble opportunity for solving grudges <g>
[06:19] <Keybuk> you did *what* to initramfs?! *splash*
[06:20] <Mithrandir> well, I did suggest paintball.
[06:20] <Mithrandir> I'm sure there are shops in London renting out gear.
[06:21] <Keybuk> that'd rock
[10:34] <mc76> hi, I am trying to install breezy in a Dell Dimension 3100 and the installer hangs right after launching syslogd kdlogd. Has anyone seen this before or know how to get pass this? I already tried all the boot options in the disk and searched google for it (other people report the same issue but none report a fix) any suggestions where I can look for more info?


[08:13] <tallis> hi 2 all
[08:15] <tallis> does anybody have any experience with thin-clients and network boot?
[14:57] <j_baer> John from the Artwork Team, I have a quick question if anyone has time.
[16:52] <dekstronic> Hi all , i have problem with logging into edubuntu web live ... when i wrote my names and password and i started connect , then i have a message "Authentication failed" can someone help me
[17:01] <bdoin> which login are you talking about, at what stage are you ?


[00:48] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: ack
[16:21] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I'm leaning toward invalidating bug 1841746 since it very much seems like a support request, and it's nearly impossible for a metapackage to have a bug like that being described. Basically, it needs to be narrowed-down, since the meta is too broad.
[16:22] <Eickmeyer> As for bug 1839182, perhaps that's a bug in tk/tcl?
 > division by zero
 can we somehow blame Simon for this 😜
[17:04] <Eickmeyer> @teward001 Absolutely. Only tsimonq2 can cause the universe to implode like that.
[17:06] <OvenWerks> yup bug... three of them actually.
[17:07] <OvenWerks> well maybe only two
[17:12] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: So, what are we looking at for 1841746?
[17:14] <OvenWerks> I have asked for more information
[17:15] <OvenWerks> until the user answers I don't know
[17:15] <Eickmeyer> And for 1839182, should we reassign to tk/tcl or is it definitely an issue with -installer?
[17:16] <OvenWerks> he did say that the fix button wasn't available meaning jack was correctly installed.
[17:18] <OvenWerks> 182 is an installer problem. the possibility of that being zero should be checked for. both in the place listed and a few lines up? (or is that down?)
[17:18] <OvenWerks> anyway there are two of them
[17:19] <OvenWerks> I have to first figgure out what they are doing because they down't look right logically either... but because they work I probably just don't know what they are trying to do. The problem would likely be there no matter of it was tcl, python, perl or c++
[17:20] <Eickmeyer> Ok, so definitely a bug in -installler. Then I'll leave it as-is.
[17:20] <OvenWerks> From a first glance it looks like the progress bar should be going down instead of up :P
[17:21] <Eickmeyer> He did respond in 1841746, and I reiterated the question you asked about running ubuntustudio-controls again. No response so far to that.
[17:22] <OvenWerks> So obviously I don't know what the numbers are. I thought they were *% numbers but that doesn't make sense
[17:23] <OvenWerks> yes but he had answered or at least given me the information I had hoped to get the questions I asked
[17:28] <OvenWerks> There was no "fix" button to press, so it did not need it.
[17:37] <Eickmeyer> Ok
[17:39] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: do you remember when running installer if the process bar stops after downloading and then jumps when it start setting the packages up and then sits till the end?
[17:39] <Eickmeyer> I don't remember that clearly. I'd have to play with it.
[17:39] <OvenWerks> (thats what the code looks like)
[19:22] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: With your latest comment on bug 1841746, I'm guessing that bug is a support request more than anything else. Agree?
[19:50] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: if there is one of our packages either by installing or by running that causes this problem, it is a bug.
[19:51] <OvenWerks> IE if installing ubuntustudio-performance-tweaks without lowlatency causes a problem then depends needs to change
[19:52] <OvenWerks> if running jack, zita-ajbridge, etc. causes the DE to stall or not start we need to know.
[20:03] <Eickmeyer> Here's the seed for -audio: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/gXJGrVtk85/
[20:03] <Eickmeyer> There is absolutely nothing there that can cause this.
[20:06] <Eickmeyer> The only thing in -performance-tweaks could be the timer perms.
[20:07] <OvenWerks> Oh, the actual package the bug belongs to is not yet established
[20:07] <OvenWerks> it could also be the extra codecs from audio-core for all I know (or their lack?)
[20:08] <OvenWerks> none of those things are running at session start
[20:08] <OvenWerks> and things in */autostart should not be starting till after the DE has already started
[20:09] <OvenWerks> Normally if the DE has started and then part of it dies, the crash box comes up and asks if you want to send a bug
[20:10] <OvenWerks> if that doesn't happen, it would seem it should be the WM that didn't start
[20:11] <OvenWerks> if the WM doesn't start, I would expect the user to end up back in the login screen
[20:11] <OvenWerks> unless... systemd changes this
[20:11] <Eickmeyer> No, systemd doesn't manage that at all. That's all the DM.
[20:20] <OvenWerks> So we have the problem, we need the relevent logfiles from a prooer bug report but the user can't provide such a bug report because the system hangs
[20:20] <OvenWerks> So we have to trouble shoot the old fashioned way :P
[20:42] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yes, we need to get them into the proper support channel. Problem is, this is not a bug until it is determined to actually be a bug, whether perceived or not. Right now, the bug report is invalid since he didn't even have -performance-tweaks installed.
[20:44] <Eickmeyer> It's a support request until it's determined to be a bug, which is not how Launchpad works. Bug reports should only be bug reports once they are determined to actually be a bug.
[20:46] <Eickmeyer> So, after all the troubleshooting steps have been done and the bug is found, then it needs to be a bug report, not before.
[20:48] <Eickmeyer> Also, considering the thousands of people running Ubuntu (and our metas) on Dell XPS 13s without issue, I'm inclined to believe this is a home directory configuration problem.
[21:26] <OvenWerks> Ga, the math is all wrong in installer. What was I thinking?
[21:29] <Eickmeyer> At least we're at a good time in the cycle for bug fixes.
[21:44] <OvenWerks> It is uploaded but I can't test it without first installing another flavour to test it on :)
[21:44] <OvenWerks> so don't release it till I test.
[21:45] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ^
[21:45] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: ack
[21:46]  * OvenWerks is zsyncing kubuntu...
[21:47] <OvenWerks> 74.4% :P
[21:56] <Eickmeyer> I've seen worse (had 50% the other day on the seed file).
[22:00]  * tsimonq2 salts Eickmeyer
[22:37]  * Eickmeyer peppers tsimonq2


[00:25] <knome> ScottL, what's the status on the ubuntu studio website update? we're just getting the new xubuntu website theme reviewed and after that, hopefully before oneiric release, getting that into production...
[00:26] <knome> ScottL, i was wondering if you need some help, or some more
[00:26] <astraljava> gnome rocks! err... wait, no, knome does.
[00:27] <knome> xfce ftw
[00:28] <astraljava> True.
[12:27] <falktx> hey there
[12:27] <falktx> ScottL: oin
[12:27] <falktx> ping
[12:30] <astraljava> oink oink to you too, Filipe. :)
[12:31] <knome> i thought i didn't join #stall
[12:32] <astraljava> I sneaked you in.
[12:33] <knome> i shoudl've guessed that
[12:33] <knome> bah
[12:33] <shnatsel> falktx: pong
[12:35] <falktx> shnatsel: someone mailed me about the new gimpstudio packages
[12:35] <falktx> basically he wants to copy them but doesn't want to fix it
[12:35] <shnatsel> falktx: fwd?
[12:35] <falktx> shnatsel: what's your mail?
[12:35] <shnatsel> falktx<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:35] <astraljava> Hi shnatsel, falktx, did you manage to come to conclusion about the app selection for the seeds? I could update them tonight.
[12:36] <falktx> shnatsel: err, this is a logged channel...
[12:36] <shnatsel> falktx: it's OK
[12:36] <shnatsel> falktx: my mail shows up in so many places
[12:36] <shnatsel> falktx: and it's googlable anyway
[12:37] <falktx> gmail is good enough to handle spam
[12:37] <astraljava> And imagine that, now you two can be googled by one search?
[12:37] <astraljava> ? == !, of course. :)
[12:37] <falktx> astraljava: my boss found my mail by googling my nickname
[12:38] <falktx> astraljava: that's how we first talked
[12:38] <shnatsel> astraljava: hi, I've just updated some workflows and proposed even less packages to include/replace in the mailing list, I have no idea who's responsible for accepting/rejecting those changes
[12:40] <astraljava> shnatsel: The team collectively, but I have taken that task on my responsibility. Anyone in the -dev team can push, though. Which reminds me, have you applied already?
[12:40] <shnatsel> falktx: that's rly weird - I have tested that use case thoroughly and even shipped the packages in my own distro, it worked fine with no users
[12:40] <shnatsel> astraljava: nope, should I?
[12:42] <falktx3> astraljava: did pulseaudio got cutoff? if not pulseaudio-module-jack should be there
[12:42] <astraljava> shnatsel: I dunno, do you wanna? :)
[12:43] <shnatsel> astraljava: no idea tbh
[12:43] <astraljava> falktx3: I think the discussion went to the direction where we agreed not to try to drop it at this point. It's a pain to keep away, really, at the moment.
[12:43] <astraljava> Luke said he's willing to make changes for the coming cycle, though, if enough derivates don't want to use it.
[12:43] <falktx3> astraljava: so *-jack there is there, right?
[12:44] <astraljava> falktx3: Let me check.
[12:44]  * falktx3 plans to do a unity-2d fork
[12:45] <astraljava> Yep, it's there.
[12:46] <falktx3> nice
[12:48] <falktx3> heh, this is kinda misinformation
[12:48] <astraljava> shnatsel: Well, thanks for your efforts on the app selection, anyway! I'll read through that thread tonight, and incorporate the changes to the seeds unless there's some controversy in the selection.
[12:48] <falktx3> "PulseAudio with jack detection"
[12:48] <astraljava> Hehe, where'd you find that?
[12:48] <falktx3> ^ jack detection, has in jack hw thing that phones have, not jack audio system
[12:48] <falktx3> astraljava: ^
[12:49] <falktx3> http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2011/09/06/pulseaudio-with-jack-detection/
[12:49] <astraljava> Oh the module?!
[12:51] <astraljava> Oh, you're talking about that blog. I'll read it later, thanks.
[12:51] <shnatsel> 'jackd modules for PulseAudio sound server' = pulseaudio-module-jack
[12:54] <astraljava> falktx3: Okay, the statement intrigued me. Why do you say it's misinformation?
[12:55] <falktx3> jack hw != jack audio
[12:55] <astraljava> Hmm... yes, but he's the Canonical audio guy. I don't think he's talking about JACK, but jack, as in what you already mentioned.
[12:56] <falktx3> yep
[12:56] <astraljava> Then again, I might not understand it correctly.
[12:56] <astraljava> I'm a little tired, and going to have a nap now. See ya later this evening.
[12:57] <falktx3> time for work
[20:10] <scott-work> knome: sorry for not responding sooner, yes we need help
[20:10] <knome> no problemos! :)
[20:10] <knome> do you need an artist and/or a developer?
[20:10] <scott-work> probably a little of both
[20:10] <scott-work> let me find a link....
[20:10] <knome> sure
[20:11] <scott-work> this is the new website...http://www.myhaiku.org/
[20:11] <scott-work> it lacks any real content but also only has a few pages
[20:11] <scott-work> i've never updated our current website so i'm unsure if i can even add pages using the canonical hosting
[20:12] <scott-work> i'm also unfamiliar with how to change the website design through launchpad
[20:12] <scott-work> note: if you click the words "audio", "video", or "graphic" the view changes
[20:26] <knome> scott-work, okay...
[20:27] <knome> that's quite a flashy effect
[20:27] <knome> the site is not too bad
[20:27] <knome> i suppose that you'd just need some of the canonical IS guys set up the new theme
[20:28] <knome> that's drupal? :(
[20:28] <knome> anyway, what we've done with the new xubuntu site is here: http://xubuntu.princessleia.com/
[20:32] <scott-work> knome: we felt that for lengevity we should stick with canonical hosting, and yes, that is drupal
[20:32] <knome> yup, we're on canonical hosting too, but we're switching to wordpress with the new site
[20:35] <knome> what is exactly what you need help with?
[21:36] <scott-work> sorry, got busy at work
[21:36] <scott-work> knome: any artistic input would be great
[21:37] <scott-work> knome: but also help understanding how the process works for hosting some of the website in launchpad and then getting it working on the hosting would be helpful too
[21:38] <scott-work> we considered moving to wordpress as well, but again felt that since there are very few people involved that we should stay with drupal for the long term
[21:38] <knome> i can give artistic input, but i know quite little about the process for canonical hosted stuff
[21:38] <knome> wordpress is actually easier in the long run
[21:39] <knome> so you prefer feedback by email or in irc?
[21:39] <scott-work> which ever is the better medium for you knome
[21:40] <scott-work> i will be leaving shortly but my laptop (ScottL) is almost always on though
[21:40] <knome> okay
[21:40] <knome> i could send an email for starters, then we can continue discussion in irc
[21:41] <knome> paste your address to PM (or chan if you don't mind) and i'll get back to you asap
[21:42] <scott-work> knome<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:43] <knome> ta
[21:43] <scott-work> knome:  this is asking a lot, but if you were interested in helping us to migrate to wordpress then we would certainly do so
[21:43] <knome> i'd love to help you on that
[21:43] <scott-work> we just chose to stay with drupal because of those involved and their limited ability and availability
[21:43] <knome> yeah, i understand
[21:43] <scott-work> knome: that would be awesome
[21:56] <scott-work> leaving work :)
[21:56] <knome> okay, see you later
[23:22] <ScottL> knome, do you think it is possible to migrate the http://www.myhaiku.org/ site to wordpress?
[23:23] <ScottL> or similar?  i ask because many people have already commented on how much they like this site
[23:25] <falktx_> ScottL: hey
[23:26] <falktx_> ScottL: I'm willing to work on that site
[23:26] <falktx_> I said it before
[23:26] <falktx_> ScottL: any way to get the entire sources of it?
[23:26] <falktx_> maybe you have jorge's mail?
[23:29] <ScottL> falktx_, http://imagebin.org/171330
[23:29] <ScottL> astraljava, also
[23:29] <ScottL> from the QA image that we tested and then i made the menu use the studio menu and changed the theme to the ubuntu studio theme
[23:30] <falktx_> ScottL: looking good
[23:30] <falktx_> don't like the decoration though
[23:30] <ScottL> it's certainly better
[23:30] <falktx_> desktop text is not very visible
[23:30] <ScottL> i'm not a theming genius i'm hoping others are able to figure this out ;)
[23:31] <falktx_> ScottL: there are lots of deco themes in xfce, we just need to pick a better one
[23:31] <ScottL> falktx_, i do have his email and the source for the myhaiku site
[23:31] <falktx_> ScottL: oh, great
[23:31] <falktx_> ScottL: what exactly do you think the website needs?
[23:31] <falktx_> besides working correctly
[23:32] <ScottL> hold on, cooking, brb in 2 mins
[23:34] <falktx_> btw, ScottL, I'm working on this now - http://distrho.sourceforge.net/gallery.html
[23:34] <falktx_> oops
[23:34] <falktx_> correct link - http://distrho.sourceforge.net/
[23:35] <ScottL> cooking for the kids
[23:35] <ScottL> back now
[23:36] <ScottL> that looks cool falktx_
[23:36] <ScottL> tell you what, you are part of the team and have access to the code
[23:36] <ScottL> would you work with knome to make this happen if write up a decent spec and blueprint?
[23:37] <ScottL> i'm not particular to whether it is in wordpress or drupal or what particular graphics are used
[23:38] <ScottL> but i think i can (or already have) develop a good framework description of what it should accomplish and it's goals
[23:38] <falktx_> who's knome
[23:38] <falktx_> ?
[23:38] <falktx_> knome: oh, hey there
[23:40] <falktx_> ScottL: so, knome already offered to work no the site, is that right?
[23:40] <falktx_> s/no/on
[23:41] <ScottL> yes he did
[23:43] <falktx_> ScottL: what can he do?
[23:43] <falktx_> I never noticed him around here...
[23:44] <ScottL> sorry, getting kids their dinner
[23:44] <ScottL> falktx_, he said he did this for xubuntu:  http://xubuntu.princessleia.com/
[23:44] <ScottL> and they are working on migrating it to the ubuntu website
[23:44] <falktx_> wow, no match for my skills!
[23:44] <falktx_> I mean, he's way better than me
[23:45] <ScottL> i don't know about that, that sourceforge site looked pretty darn good to me :)
[23:45] <falktx_> ScottL: it's a html5 template I downloaded
[23:45] <falktx_> not done by me
[23:45] <falktx_> "Website template designed by TemplateMonster.com"
[23:47] <ScottL> ah, it look really good
[23:47] <ScottL> did you ever see the ones i mocked up with inkscape?  the first one was really scary looking
[23:50] <falktx_> no, please give me a link
[23:50] <falktx_> how scary is it?
[23:51] <ScottL> hahaha, not happening my friend :P
[23:51] <ScottL> it also got erased when my server got screwed up anyways
[23:52] <ScottL> hosting had a problem with their raid which got corrupted and synced garbage onto my server