[11:07] <somethinginteres> is anyone aware of how I could write a script or something to set up a situation whereby each time file.doc is edited a  backup copy of file.doc is made to a specific location (second hard drive)?
[11:22] <elky> somethinginteres, use cron to check an md5 checksum of the file and if it's changed, copy it across?
[11:23] <elky> it won't be precisely at save time, but you can make cron run every few minutes
[11:38] <somethinginteres> elky: OK, well that works fine. Cron jobs. OK I will have to google
[12:08] <thegoodcushion> hello boys and girls
[12:08] <thegoodcushion> Mind if I join?
[12:08] <thegoodcushion> I'm an Aussie Ubuntu user


[17:24] <cmaloney> https://mastodon.social/@kemonine/98901867438008710
[17:24] <cmaloney> also: Good morning (better late than never)
[17:34] <rick_h> afternoon
[17:55] <greg-g> g'morn
[17:56] <greg-g> had a fish die last night (Goldiden, a goldfish obviously)
[17:56] <rick_h> greg-g: bummer, time for the cycle of life lessons
[17:56] <greg-g> (Rowan has his dad's sense in naming. There's also Black Spot, guess why :) )
[17:56] <greg-g> yeah, we talked about burying it near the garden for the soil
[17:57] <rick_h> hah nice
[17:57] <greg-g> it'll turn into some wild fennel, which Rowan loves
[17:57] <greg-g> (he loves to eat, that is)
[18:03] <jrwren> so sad.
[20:03] <cmaloney> greg-g: Sorry to hear that.
[20:17] <greg-g> meh, pretty low on my list of concerns. But I might buy a new fish tank/filter/etc (this one we got for free is one of those round ones that's hard to get things for)
[20:21] <cmaloney> Yeah, those can be a bugger
[20:21] <cmaloney> (says the owner of a 5 gallon hex fish tank that was impossible to get anything for and turned into crap at a moment's notice
[20:22] <cmaloney> need at least 20 gallons of water to properly dispose of fish waste
[20:22] <cmaloney> also: do not get tiger danios ever
[20:24] <greg-g> 20? not even 10?
[20:24] <greg-g> this is a 2.5 :)
[20:25] <cmaloney> 10 is the bare minimum for tropical fish IMO
[20:25] <greg-g> what about fresh water/goldfish
[20:25] <cmaloney> 2.5 is OK for Bettas and mini-carp
[20:25]  * greg-g nods
[20:25] <cmaloney> but need frequent water changes
[20:25] <greg-g> yeah, we didn't do that :)
[20:25] <cmaloney> more frequent than is is good for the fish
[20:25] <cmaloney> 5 is pushing it
[20:25] <greg-g> 'cuz guess who had to end up doing it?
[20:25] <cmaloney> A-yep
[20:25] <greg-g> :)
[20:27]  * cmaloney realizes we have room for a fishtank again.
[20:27] <cmaloney> And a basement in case something goes horribly wrong.
[20:27] <cmaloney> dammit
[20:27] <cmaloney> Did not need that thought right now
[20:31] <greg-g> ? :(
[20:45] <rick_h> lol
[20:45] <rick_h> someone get the fish itch?
[20:46] <rick_h> cmaloney: you can have my gear. I'm supposed to get it out of here but not been able to due to knee
[20:46] <_stink_> there's a cream for that
[20:46] <rick_h> lol, over the counter _stink_ ?
[20:46] <greg-g> more like under the table
[20:47] <greg-g> I can mail you some cannacream :P
[20:56] <_stink_> this sounds like an aqua teen gag
[20:56] <_stink_> fish itch cream
[21:06] <cmaloney> rick_h: I think JoDee would kill me at the moment.
[21:06] <rick_h> cmaloney: well we don't want you dead
[21:06] <cmaloney> Yeah, plus we have Pixel
[21:07] <cmaloney> and she really LOVES fish
[21:07] <rick_h> if you have any close relative or friend you need to "hold a fishtank for" let me know
[21:07] <rick_h> oh, so it'd be for pixel then. That should be easy to approve :)
[21:07] <cmaloney> I don't want her to think it comes in non-pate flavors
[21:07] <rick_h> lol
[21:07] <cmaloney> hah
[21:07] <cmaloney> hardly
[21:07] <cmaloney> Though if Michael needs a 5 gallon hex tank... ;)
[21:08] <rick_h> I'll trade you the 5gal for my 70gal
[21:08] <cmaloney> heh
[21:10] <greg-g> jeebus
[21:10] <rick_h> I was once into planted tanks and such
[21:11] <rick_h> but these days not enough time in the day to keep it up so it's sat like an old building in detroit for a long time
[21:11] <greg-g> yeah, I remember us talking a while ago about it, it's just huge sounding now (more so than before, for some reason)
[21:11] <cmaloney> Yeah, that tends to be what happens with fish tanks
[21:11] <cmaloney> It was beautiful too
[21:11] <greg-g> unless you hire bruce bigelow
[21:12] <cmaloney> Also a marine tank which is a level of difficulty to get right
[22:37] <jrwren> https://golang.org/src/math/atan.go#L76 lol satan is part of Go
[23:00] <greg-g> go satan
[23:52] <cmaloney> heh


[12:45] <dholbach> Packaging Training Session in 15m: Operation Cleansweep and the Patch Reviewers Team!
[13:00] <dholbach> welcome everybody!
[13:00] <dholbach> who do we have here of the training session?
[13:01] <dholbach> come on, don't be shy :)
[13:01] <dholbach> or is the channel +m'ed again?
[13:01] <effie_jayx> me
[13:01] <dholbach> ahhh, here we go :)
[13:01] <SevenMachines_> i was on -chat
[13:01] <effie_jayx> me
[13:01] <dholbach> let's all chat in here - that's totally fine
[13:01] <bobbo> o/
[13:01] <dholbach> yeeehaw!
[13:01]  * dholbach is EXCITED
[13:02] <dholbach> alright… I guess we'll have a few stragglers - we'll just ask them to check out the logs later on :)
[13:02] <dholbach> bobbo and I are going to talk about Operation Cleansweep and the Patch Reviewers Team today
[13:03] <dholbach> as you can see from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OperationCleansweep the goal of this initiative is to clear up the quite big backlog of bugs with patches
[13:03] <dholbach> bobbo: at the moment, we have how many total?
[13:03] <bobbo> We started with 2100
[13:03] <bobbo> but we've hit about 1650 now :D
[13:04] <dholbach> NICE
[13:04] <dholbach> alright, the problem with a lot of these patches is that people didn't know about the "proper process to submit patches" or sometimes added patches we couldn't easily make a decision about
[13:05] <dholbach> so the goal now is to triage those patches, see if they still work, then get them to the authors of the software and debian and get them included in Ubuntu that way
[13:05] <dholbach> so everybody benefits
[13:05] <dholbach> another problem we had was that Launchpad didn't offer something like "patch status"
[13:06] <dholbach> so we always knew there's a huge number of patches, but we didn't know anything about them, because we couldn't query launchpad easily
[13:06] <dholbach> our goal for this cycle is, to check out ALL of them and make sure they get attention
[13:07] <dholbach> we put quite a lot of effort into writing good documentation that explains how to do it and how to make all the decisions regarding patches and where they should go
[13:07] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReviewersTeam/ReviewGuide is the page you should probably bookmark :-D
[13:07] <dholbach> bobbo: care to take us through  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReviewersTeam/ReviewGuide#Workflow ?
[13:07] <bobbo> sure :D
[13:07] <dholbach> awesome
[13:08] <bobbo> Basically, going through that process you first need to find an appropriate bug to look at
[13:08] <bobbo> There's a few links in the wiki, but http://tinyurl.com/2u7kf3b is the bug list we've been working from mostly
[13:08] <bobbo> all of those bugs have patches that need a bit of love
[13:09] <bobbo> The first step in working with a patch is to make sure the bug is still valid
[13:09] <bobbo> there's no point trying to patch a bug that doesn't exist anymore
[13:10] <bobbo> if you can reproduce the bug properly, then you should head on to the next step, if not you can generally set the bug to Incomplete and ask other people to check if it's still an issue for them
[13:11] <txwikinger> o/
[13:11] <bobbo> txwikinger, question?
[13:11]  * txwikinger jusst said hi
[13:11] <bobbo> txwikinger, haha :D
[13:12] <bobbo> once you have a bug you can reproduce, you now need to test the patch, by downloading the packages source code (apt-get source packagename), downloading the patch attached to the bug and attempting to apply it
[13:13] <bobbo> if it fails to apply, you should add the 'patch-needswork' tag to the bug, and add a comment saying it failed to apply (adding some output from patch showing which patch hunk(s) failed is also a great idea)
[13:14] <dholbach> we have some documentation on how to do that at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix and I'll integrate that into the docs in a bit
[13:14] <bobbo> if the patch applies fully, you'll next want to test that it actually fixes the bug (no point applying a patch if it doesn't actually fix anything)
[13:15] <bobbo> you'll probably need to build the package (I'm sure there're docs on the Wiki somewhere to guide you with that, dholbach?)
[13:15] <nigelbabu> we'll get docs on that stat, 24 hours perhaps.  there are docs, but not geared to reviewers
[13:15] <dholbach> bobbo: yes, that's on HowToFix too
[13:16] <dholbach> I'll make sure to update it after the session
[13:16] <bobbo> once we write some docs and you know how to build packages, build it and go through the steps you went through initially to try to reproduce the bug
[13:17] <dholbach> as bobbo said: if it doesn't work tag it as patch-needswork and it's off the list for now
[13:17] <SevenMachines_> is it best/needed to be a member of the bug control team for this?
[13:17] <dholbach> SevenMachines_: no, not at all
[13:17] <dholbach> SevenMachines_: ubuntu-bugcontrol is only useful if you want to set the bug importance or mark it as won't fix
[13:17] <dholbach> to tag the patch you can do it just like that
[13:18] <bobbo> if the bug is still reproducible, hit up the bug with 'patch-needswork'
[13:18] <bobbo> otherwise, you should send the bug upstream or to Debian, dholbach could you take us through sending a patch upstream?
[13:19] <dholbach> sure
[13:19] <dholbach> if you scroll down on the reviewers guide a bit, down to "Getting patches accepted", you'll find information on how to make a decision where to send the patch
[13:19] <dholbach> in an ideal world, it'd work like this:
[13:19] <dholbach>  - we get a patch in ubuntu
[13:20] <dholbach>  - we send it to the software authors of that piece of software (upstream)
[13:20] <dholbach>  - they like it
[13:20] <dholbach>  - it gets integrated
[13:20] <dholbach>  - the new release makes it into debian
[13:20] <dholbach>  - then we get it
[13:20] <dholbach> sometimes you'll find that it's a patch that has only to do with packaging
[13:20] <dholbach> in that case and if the package is in debian too, you'd just send it to debian
[13:21] <dholbach> if the package is just in ubuntu, we need to integrate it ourselves
[13:21] <dholbach> the good thing about getting in touch with upstream and debian is that we get a few more sets of additional eyes to have a look at the patch
[13:21] <dholbach> and make an informed decision
[13:21] <dholbach> however
[13:22] <dholbach> if it's really an important bug fix, like a crash or when data gets deleted
[13:22] <dholbach> etc
[13:22] <karyo> i'm sorry to interrupt but how do I "apply" a patch? does it need to be dealt with in a case by case basis?
[13:22] <dholbach> we integrate it ourselves first
[13:22] <dholbach> karyo: up until a few days ago it was a "case by case basis"
[13:22] <dholbach> but luckily, we have the ultimate solution to things, which is
[13:22] <dholbach> BOBBO
[13:22] <bobbo> edit-patch?
[13:22] <bobbo> amirite?
[13:22] <dholbach> he extended "edit-patch" which is in ubuntu-dev-tools
[13:23] <dholbach> so you'd just download the patch and the source package
[13:23] <dholbach> then call    edit-patch <patch file>
[13:23] <dholbach> and it'd get applied for you
[13:23] <dholbach> then you can test-build the package
[13:23] <dholbach> as bobbo, nigelbabu and I said: we'll work on getting the docs for that right ASAP
[13:23] <karyo> in general, would you say applying patches would require packaging skills?
[13:23] <karyo> or "just run edit-patch and your done"
[13:23] <bobbo> (the only caveat there is that if the package doesn't have a patchsystem (dpatch/quilt/cdbs), edit-patch wont work)
[13:24] <dholbach> bobbo: we can fix that too
[13:24] <dholbach> bobbo: I'll add it to the TODO list
[13:24] <karyo> do most packages have a patch system?
[13:24] <dholbach> karyo: I'd say so
[13:24] <dholbach> but we'll fix that
[13:25] <bobbo> karyo, a lot do, yeah, but I'll patch edit-patch as soon as we're done here so it works for all packages
[13:25] <dholbach> thanks a bunch already for all your questions and feedback - as you can see you sparked a lot of ideas :-D
[13:25] <dholbach> ok, so let's say you forwarded the patches
[13:25] <dholbach> you'd use patch-forwarded-upstream
[13:26] <dholbach> and/or patch-forwarded-debian
[13:26] <karyo> as tags?
[13:26] <dholbach> If upstream requests patch rework, you'd add the patch-needswork tag
[13:26] <dholbach> karyo: yes
[13:26] <dholbach> if upstream rejects the patch, remove patch-forwarded-upstream tag, and add patch-rejected-upstream (or patch-rejected-debian) tag
[13:27] <karyo> what if I cannot get an answer from upstream?
[13:27] <dholbach> and if the patch is unnecessary or addresses something that does not need to be fixed, add tag patch-rejected, give reason in the comments, and if required close the bug to Won't Fix
[13:27] <dholbach> karyo: that's indeed a problem - in that case we'd need to assess the patch and the bug and decide if we want to carry the difference ourselves
[13:27] <dholbach> it always comes at a maintenance cost
[13:28] <dholbach> (but maybe worthwhile)
[13:28] <karyo> i'll ask you about a specific case about this later. please carry on
[13:28] <dholbach> ok cool
[13:28] <dholbach> as you can see… the tags we use are really self-explaining
[13:29] <dholbach> and apart from the technical details which might require some knowledge (which you can ask for in #ubuntu-reviews), the process itself is pretty straight-forward
[13:30] <dholbach> if upstream accepts the patch, remove patch-forwarded-upstream tag, and add patch-accepted-upstream (or patch-accepted-debian) tag. Indicate the VCS revision and/or expected upstream/debian version/revision that will include the bugfix
[13:30] <dholbach> the only thing left (apart from a juicy example or two) is: how do I get it into Ubuntu if it's urgent enough?
[13:31] <dholbach> there's the sponsors team - they will take patches from people who can't upload themselves yet, where all the patch assessment has happened already
[13:31] <dholbach> you'll just attach an updated patch (if necessary), add a changelog entry (if you can) and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
[13:31] <dholbach> do you have any more questions up until now?
[13:32] <dholbach> bobbo has picked a few nice and juicy examples
[13:33] <dholbach> let's first go through one that was already done
[13:33] <dholbach> and then do a live example
[13:33] <bundo> hayanbom,  Hi !
[13:33] <hayanbom> bundo, hi
[13:33] <effie_jayx> @dholbach there are a few bugs with patches with very specific hardware. what can one do to help get those sorted if one does not have the needed hardware
[13:34] <bobbo> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libpcap/+bug/523349
[13:34] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 523349 in libpcap (Debian) (and 1 other project) "Bad /sys path to text-based usbmon (affects: 2) (dups: 1) (heat: 42)" [Unknown,Fix released]
[13:34] <dholbach> effie_jayx: good question - I'd probably ask in #ubuntu-devel for help with that
[13:34] <karyo> reproducing the patch would be very difficult too
[13:34] <bobbo> This is a bug which had a patch which has gone through the patch-review process
[13:35] <bobbo> Brian Murray confirmed the bug and it was then sent up to Debian  (unfortunately whoever did that forgot to add patch-forwarded-debian tag)
[13:36] <bobbo> it was taken and applied in the Debian package, and was tagged 'patch-accepted-debian'
[13:36] <bobbo> and now we are waiting for the patch to trickle down and hit the Ubuntu archives
[13:36] <bundo> oh karyo good English conversation ^^..
[13:36] <dholbach> also
[13:37] <dholbach> we have it tagged now, so we practically have another "todo list" now
[13:37] <dholbach> we can regularly have a look at the patch-accepted-* bugs and make sure we integrate them one way or another
[13:37] <dholbach> (there's instructions on the review guide for that as well)
[13:37] <karyo> isn't it automatic?
[13:37] <dholbach> karyo: it depends
[13:38] <dholbach> karyo: only if we're in the beginning in the release cycle and the package in ubuntu was not modified, we'll get it automatically
[13:38] <dholbach> karyo: in the other cases we'll have to do this semi-manually
[13:38] <dholbach> like: if we're very close to release and it's a HUGE CHANGE, we probably choose to fix it in the next release instead
[13:38] <dholbach> even if it fixes a bug
[13:39] <dholbach> so it can get more testing, etc.
[13:39] <dholbach> bobbo: please go on - just wanted to quickly interrupt :-)
[13:39] <bobbo> dholbach, awesome :D
[13:39] <karyo> Oh, I thought it only involved work in our part. Not decisions. bobbo go on please
[13:39] <bobbo> okay https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/544242 is another quick example of a patch going through the process
[13:39] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 544242 in empathy (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "[PATCH] Empathy should allow users to toggle auto-away mode on/off (affects: 1) (heat: 45)" [Wishlist,Fix committed]
[13:39] <bobbo> this time a bug was created with a patch attached
[13:40] <bobbo> it was reviewed by Omer Akram who sent it upstream
[13:40] <bobbo> nigelbabu, saw this and marked it -frowarded-upstream
[13:41] <karyo> isn't this a feature rather than a but fix?
[13:41] <bobbo> There was some discussion about the patch upstream with people debating the correct way to implement it before the patch was accepted and tagged patch-accepted-upstream
[13:41] <bobbo> karyo, the process can work for both features and fixeds
[13:42] <bobbo> karyo, in the case of feature requests it's especially important that we talk to the upstream about it and forward patches up to the original authors
[13:42] <dholbach> karyo: it's probably one of those examples for "late in the release, maybe we shouldn't include it right away, even if it has upstream approval"
[13:42] <dholbach> yep
[13:42] <bobbo> dholbach, do you want to take us through a "live" untouched example from the queue?
[13:43] <dholbach> let me check the list
[13:43] <karyo> I understand. btw am I interrupting too much?
[13:43] <dholbach> let me check the list
[13:43] <dholbach> karyo: not at all
[13:43] <dholbach> karyo: it's way more fun if this is a conversation
[13:43] <bobbo> karyo, the more questions you ask, the more we understand where we need to improve our documentation and processes
[13:44] <karyo> that's nice 'cause questions I've plenty
[13:45] <dholbach> karyo: do you have any more questions right now?
[13:46] <dholbach> ok let's see if  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/onboard/+bug/526791  makes any sense for us to work on
[13:46] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 526791 in onboard (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "onboard crashed with SIGSEGV in XkbGetNames() (affects: 19) (dups: 4) (heat: 123)" [Medium,Fix committed]
[13:46] <dholbach> if you have a look at the last comment
[13:47] <dholbach> you see that marmuta said "I've pushed a workaround to onboard and virtkey trunks"
[13:47] <dholbach> that means that the patches were already pushed upstream
[13:47] <dholbach> so it's easy, I'd just add patch-accepted-upstream and it'd be off our list
[13:48] <dholbach> nigelbabu, bobbo: do I remove the 'patch' tag? O:-)
[13:48] <bobbo> dholbach, yes :)
[13:48] <nigelbabu> dholbach: yes
[13:48] <dholbach> oh, it doesn't even have it
[13:48] <karyo> I don't have to reproduce and confirm that the patch is working?
[13:48] <dholbach> alright, another one off the list
[13:48] <nigelbabu> it doesn't have it, because its an older patch that's part of clean sweep
[13:48] <dholbach> karyo: if upstream is totally happy with it, that's good enough for us, of course, if you want you can still test it
[13:48] <dholbach> nigelbabu: gotcha
[13:49] <bobbo> once you start going through the list, you'll find a lot of the bugs can be easily taken off our list as they've already been forwarded or accepted in Upstreams or Debian
[13:49] <bobbo> the majority of bugs I've touched, I haven't had to apply the patch and test it as someone has done that already and sent it to Debian, the bug just hasn't been tagged yet
[13:49] <karyo> so all I have to do is find out if upstream/debian is happy with the patch?
[13:50] <dholbach> karyo: if it wasn't tested first, you'd need to test it though
[13:50] <SevenMachines> is there a cutoff for these patches, ie, do we still try and fix the warty release :)
[13:50] <karyo> how do I know if it was tested?
[13:51] <dholbach> karyo: if it already was forwarded or even accepted, that's easy
[13:51] <dholbach> karyo: in the other cases you'd want to test
[13:51] <karyo> @sevenmachines I believe warthy is no longer supported
[13:51] <dholbach> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openttd/+bug/503725 is another one of those
[13:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 503725 in openttd (Ubuntu) "CVE-2009-4007 (DoS of OpenTTD < 0.7.5) (affects: 2) (heat: 252)" [Low,Confirmed]
[13:51] <bobbo> SevenMachines, often if there's a bug from a long time ago, the patch will have already been applied somewhere, you just have to use your google-fu to check
[13:51] <dholbach> it's about a security issue, directly in the initial comment it says
[13:51] <dholbach> There are two ways to fix this:
[13:51] <dholbach> - update to 0.7.5 (or higher)
[13:51] <dholbach> - apply the patch of 0.6.2-1+lenny1 (from Debian)
[13:52] <SevenMachines> scroogle-fu!
[13:52] <dholbach> so it's been accepted both in upstream and in debian
[13:52] <dholbach> I'll add patch-accepted-debian and patch-accepted-upstream
[13:52] <dholbach> as you can see: a lot of our work is to put those patches into buckets
[13:52] <dholbach> and make it clear what happened to the patches up until now
[13:52] <karyo> is update to 0.7.5 an option?
[13:52] <dholbach> so that further action can be taken easily
[13:53] <dholbach> karyo: sure
[13:53] <karyo> isn't that changing packages?
[13:53] <dholbach> if you have a look at http://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=sourcenames&keywords=openttd
[13:53] <bobbo> SevenMachines, normally if it's been languishing in LP for a long time, it's either not suitable to be applied or there's some other reason. In most cases of really old patches, I've looked around a bit, found the source code has evolved so much that the patch wont even apply any more and just slapped with with a 'patch-rejected' and explained why
[13:53] <dholbach> you can see that it's already in Debian
[13:54] <bundo> hayanbom,  Your happy?
[13:54] <dholbach> another interesting example is https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/file-roller/+bug/354136
[13:54] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 354136 in file-roller (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "unintuitive back and forward (heat: 11)" [Low,Triaged]
[13:54] <dholbach> as you can see the bug was forward to upstream already
[13:54] <dholbach> click on the "gnome-bugs #578837" link
[13:54] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 578837 in blueprint "Proposing a blueprint for a sprint cannot be undone (dup-of: 198982)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/578837
[13:55] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 198982 in blueprint "Can't un-propose a blueprint for a meeting (affects: 1) (dups: 1) (heat: 12)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/198982
[13:55] <dholbach> if you compare the two suggested patches, you'll see they're identical
[13:55] <dholbach> http://bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=132594
[13:55] <dholbach> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/24728371/file-roller-2.24.1_history-fix2.diff
[13:55] <dholbach> the patch didn't get a review upstream though yet
[13:55] <dholbach> so we'd just add a patch-forwarded-upstream
[13:58] <dholbach> alright… let's close the session at this point and move over to #ubuntu-reviews where we can further discuss patches, bugs and the process involved
[13:58] <dholbach> thanks a lot everybody
[13:58] <bobbo> thanks guys :D
[13:58] <dholbach> thanks bobbo for being a great host
[13:58] <dholbach> I'll make sure we get the logs up later on for others who are interested
[13:58] <karyo> thx
[13:58] <SevenMachines> thanks everyone
[13:58] <dholbach> I'll update statistics here: http://daniel.holba.ch/review/report
[13:58] <dholbach> (every week, so we know how we're doing compared to last week)
[13:59] <SevenMachines> sort of related, is there a developer week soon? or did i imagine it
[13:59] <dholbach> SevenMachines: a couple of weeks left still :)
[13:59] <karyo> what do I do when I cannot get an answer from upstream?
[14:01] <dholbach> karyo: I'd try to ask again, on the bug, maybe on their mailing list too
[14:01] <dholbach> karyo: and if it's not possible at all to get a reply, decide if we're willing to carry the load of taking the patch ourselves
[14:02] <SevenMachines> joining ubuntu-reviews crashes my xchat :)
[14:02] <karyo> so then it's : try hard to talk to upstream, and then try talking to the relevant ubuntu team. right?
[14:02] <dholbach> karyo: ubuntu-sponsors
[14:02] <dholbach> and the relevant team
[14:02] <dholbach> be it desktop, server or kubuntu or wherever else :)
[14:03]  * dholbach heads out of here - see you in #ubuntu-reviews
[14:03] <karyo> okay. I think I had enough for the day. It's bedtime here. good bye
[14:03] <dholbach> karyo: sleep tight! :)
[14:03]  * karyo heads out ZZZ
[14:03] <dholbach> it was great to have you around
[14:03] <SevenMachines> bye all
[14:04] <MTecknology> dholbach: I missed it, didn't i?
[14:04] <nigelbabu> MTecknology: yes you did
[14:04] <dholbach> MTecknology: yep, I'll put up logs in a bit
[14:04] <MTecknology> dholbach: gosh darned you people that don't all use my timezone :P - I'm just waking up


[20:00] <wachin> Hi again all ubuntu studio support
[20:01] <wachin> I install the new 17.04 x386
[20:02] <wachin> but have a bug, the velocity of the cursor is not possible change, is very slow, how to can speed up the mouse cursor, please help


[20:46] <airurando> evening
[20:56] <zmoylan> hi
[21:01] <airurando> hi zmoylan
[21:01] <airurando> how is the hip?
[21:01] <zmoylan> much better, down to one crutch.  trying to wean myself off it. yourself?
[21:02] <airurando> all good here
[21:02] <airurando> and glad to hear it
[21:02] <zmoylan> going to have a look at the tall ships thing that is on this week?
[21:02] <airurando> nah, working this weekend
[21:02] <airurando> recover mon tue
[21:03] <airurando> work again weds thur
[21:03] <airurando> limerick next weekend for sisters 40th
[21:03] <zmoylan> horrible shifts you are on
[21:03] <airurando> its not all bad
[21:03] <airurando> every second weekend is a pain
[21:03] <zmoylan> it's a job.  few enough of those around at the mo.
[21:04] <airurando> ins
[21:04] <airurando> indeed
[21:04] <airurando> any chance you'll make it down to Limerick for skycon12?
[21:05] <zmoylan> not likely.  was at one a few years back.  good fun
[21:05] <airurando> did you see the line up for this one?
[21:06] <zmoylan> xkcd author randall munroe i think was the big name that registered with me
[21:08] <airurando> you is a hard man to impress
[21:08] <airurando> I'm curious,
[21:09] <airurando> what are your thoughts re Ubuntu Ireland.
[21:09] <airurando> don't be too cynical :-)
[21:10] <zmoylan> ubuntu ireland is a distro.  like a lot of distros it has it's ups and downs.  right now it's going through a down due to unity which is most badly named piece of technology to my mind. uefi may undo all the wrongs with the launch of win8.
[21:11] <airurando> very fair point
[21:12] <zmoylan> it will survive simply by having the distro continue.  even if 1-2 folk turn up not at ubuntu meetups but more general linux potd it will survice.
[21:13] <zmoylan> *survive
[21:13] <airurando> I just fear that thos down or period of dormancy will kill approved status.  Whether that is important or not is another question.
[21:13] <zmoylan> there is that.  and czajkowski would killl us if that were to happen! :-)
[21:14] <airurando> :-)
[21:14] <airurando> in real danger I fear
[21:18] <zmoylan> but even if we cut back efforts to one meetup every 3 months. it might concentrate those that are interested to be there when that happens.  even if one the same 2-3 folk turn up they'd have more to talk about.
[21:23] <airurando> aye
[21:23] <airurando> wpuld you propose that on the mailing list?
[21:24] <airurando> my efforts to get a discussion going on the mailing list have thus far failed :-(
[21:24] <zmoylan> let me think about the wording and if i haven't emailed it in the next week poke me till i do it.  memory and fatigue might make me forget.
[21:24] <zmoylan> not much interest about at the mo.  summer holidays is always quiet online
[21:24] <airurando> thanks
[21:24] <zmoylan> no rpg games this month as everybody is on hols
[21:25] <zmoylan> or at concerts
[21:25] <airurando> indeed
[21:26] <zmoylan> just as we're about to enter final dungeon.  after which we all should level up and gain more powerful characters.  and when bribery like that fails you know that people are busy.
[21:27] <airurando> ha
[21:29] <zmoylan> some of us have bought new nerf guns (we use them to solve disputes much quicker than normal arguments) and wanted to give them a shot (pardon the pun)
[21:29] <zmoylan> :-)
[21:30] <airurando> as the father of a 6.75 year old boy I am familiar with the world of nerf
[21:31] <zmoylan> good fun.  hard to hurt someone with foam darts.  not through lack of trying mind you.
[21:31] <airurando> :)
[21:35] <airurando> nn zmoylan, good talking to you, I need to catch some zzzzzzzzzzzzzssssssssssss


[06:09] <pleia2> AlanBell: thanks for looking through those bugs, I'll try to wrap things up this week


[18:21] <MajB> Is there any particular reason why the Ubuntu-Arizona LoCo Team has lost its approval status?
[18:28] <pleia2> it needs to be renewed every 2 years, did it expire?
[18:31] <svij> MajB: yes, it's approval status ended this morning/night. There's a re-verification due, but we're also restaffing the loco council
[18:32] <pleia2> I think California is in a similar state, we expired from verification as well
[18:36] <svij> pleia2: yep on the 5th november
[18:36] <svij> ubuntu-co expired today aswell
[18:36] <svij> (and a lot of other locos too)
[18:37] <svij> the re-election of the loco council will hopefully lead to more active locos.
[18:37] <pleia2> ours is active ;)
[18:38] <svij> I should say "active and verified" (and verifiable with an existing loco council) :)
[19:04] <MajB> We got on the LoCo Council agenda for the  12 September meeting but only one Council member was present (wxl) so there was no quorum.  wxl assured our team leader that we would verified.  Our application is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArizonaTeam/Re-validationApplication2017.  Now what do we do?  Wait for the Council to act?
[19:05] <MajB> AZLOCO is pretty active as well
[19:05] <wxl> MajB: i just replied to an email from rex. should be resolved within the week
[19:05] <wxl> oh
[19:05] <wxl> that's you XD
[19:08] <MajB> Thanks wxl.  This happened right at the change over, new members to the council replacing the old.  Yep that's me.
[19:08] <wxl> MajB: no problem. thanks again for your understanding and again, sorry. :(
[20:57] <wxl> https://community.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-loco-council-election-results/1948?u=wxl


[01:29] <ochosi> hi everyone, when i try to dput my source.changes to my ppa, i get Unable to import paramiko (required for sftp support): No module named paramiko
[01:29] <ochosi> does that mean that sftp doesn't work anymore in general with launchpad?
[01:29] <ochosi> or am i missing something?
[01:31] <TheEvilPhoenix> that seems to be on your end
[01:31] <TheEvilPhoenix> not sure what causes that though
[01:31]  * TheEvilPhoenix uses sftp to upload to ppas still
[01:31] <ochosi> strange. i used exactly the same setup in natty and it worked fine
[01:32] <ochosi> here's my dput.cf: http://pastebin.com/Y0hLPAm9
[01:33] <ochosi> TheEvilPhoenix: would you mind comparing that ^ to your dput.cf?
[01:33] <TheEvilPhoenix> actually i would mind
[01:33] <TheEvilPhoenix> because this system i'm on is Windows
[01:33] <ochosi> oh, i see :)
[01:33]  * TheEvilPhoenix doesnt have his dput.cf  in front of him
[01:33] <wgrant> ochosi: Sounds like python-paramiko isn't installed.
[01:33] <TheEvilPhoenix> the onyl reason i'm here is because of my ZNC :P
[01:33] <TheEvilPhoenix> but listen to wgrant
[01:33] <TheEvilPhoenix> he knows his things  ;P
[01:34] <ochosi> wgrant: ah, is that a new dependency for dput to work with sftp?
[01:34] <ochosi> now it works, thanks a bunch!
[01:36] <wgrant> ochosi: No, it's been the case since sftp was introduced in dput.
[01:36] <ochosi> wgrant: i see, guess i missed it when doing my clean install of oneiric
[01:39] <ochosi> anyway, thanks again and sorry to bother you with trivial stuff like this
[04:07] <odin_> is there allowed/disallowed branching names ?  ~user/<what1>/<what2>/<project>/<branch> ?
[04:08] <odin_> I can't seem to make arbitrary names  like ~user/<project>/<branch>/<branch1>/<branch2>
[04:09] <wgrant> odin_: ~USER/+junk/BRANCH, ~USER/PROJECT/BRANCH or ~USER/DISTRIBUTION/DISTROSERIES/SOURCEPACKAGE/BRANCH
[04:09] <odin_> what is the relation between PROJECT and SOURCEPACKAGE ?
[04:10] <wgrant> The last is for branches for a distribution.
[04:10] <odin_> ~user/ubuntu/natty/<project>/<branch>  is fine to use, but how does <project> relate to <SOURCEPACKAGE>
[04:11] <odin_> the debian/control  Source: line ?
[04:11] <wgrant> No, <project> is wrong. It's a source package name there, not a project name.
[04:11] <wgrant> Right.
[04:12] <odin_> so I have a dailydeb that works (i.e. I can build a source package on launchpad), how is the SOURCEPACKAGE resolved to my one ?
[04:14] <odin_> and how do I make a generic   DISTRIBUTION/DISTROSERIES   ubuntu/*/<project>/<branch>
[04:14] <wgrant> No relationship is enforced. Normally it will match the Source field in debian/control, however.
[04:17] <odin_> is there a defacto default name for the branch which contains only debian/** files ?
[04:17] <odin_> "packaging" or "debian" ?
[04:17] <odin_> I use recipe, that pulls in launchpad git=>bzr mirror of main project tree
[04:18] <odin_> then I "nest debian lp:~owner/project/branch debian" to overlay debian/** tree
[04:19] <odin_> the bzr branch at lp:~owner/project/branch is not the main tree, just the debian/** files
[04:20] <odin_> so do I call this: lp:~owner/project/packaging  or lp:~owner/project/debian  or lp:~owner/project  (is this possible?)  or lp:~owner/project/?????
[04:20] <wgrant> packaging and debian are both fairly common.
[06:53] <Crypticfortune> Hi, I'm trying to upload a package into a PPA (first time), and it came back with "Unable to find distroseries: unstable" what does does this mean and how do I specify something other than "unstable?" (the only place I know of that I specified "unstable" is in debian/changelog)
[06:55] <Crypticfortune> Oh, this may be relevant, if complicating... https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/169630
[06:58] <Crypticfortune> Oh, it actually it seems to pull the distro out of the changelog...that's weird... the debian/changelog out of 'apt-get source samtools' uses "unstable" in the distro field and gets away with it...
[06:58] <Crypticfortune> I guess because they don't use launchpad =P
[06:59] <wgrant> Crypticfortune: Packages like that are copied straight from Debian. They don't go through the normal upload process, so the series in the changelog doesn't matter.
[07:00] <Crypticfortune> wgrant: Ya, I originally made my package for debian, but it works in Ubuntu unmodified so I was trying to make it available in a convenient way for Ubuntu users...
[07:01] <Crypticfortune> Any recommendations for a better way to do that (short of a search and replace before uploading to Launchpad)?
[07:02] <wgrant> Crypticfortune: "works in Ubuntu unmodified" <- the source or binaries?
[07:04] <Crypticfortune> wgrant: I meant source
[07:05] <wgrant> Crypticfortune: Can you reuse the binaries between versions? eg. build on lucid, reuse the binaries on maverick/natty/oneiric/precise?
[07:07] <Crypticfortune> wgrant: not sure, but that seems unlikely, because it depends on boost libraries (which include the version number in the name, like libboost_iostreams.so.1.42.0)
[07:07] <wgrant> Crypticfortune: Ah.
[07:07] <wgrant> So, in that case you'll need to upload a separate version for each Ubuntu release that you want to support.
[07:07] <wgrant> The convention is to append something like ~lucid1 to the version.;
[07:11] <Crypticfortune> Hmm... well, I don't see much of a need to support multiple Ubuntu releases... maybe I'll just automate retagging changelog for Ubuntu releases...
[11:33] <RunePhilosof> I'm trying to run the rocketfuel-setup script and I get this error:
[11:33] <RunePhilosof> Making local branch of Launchpad trunk, this may take a while...
[11:33] <RunePhilosof> Permission denied (publickey).
[11:33] <RunePhilosof> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: Unexpected end of message. Please check connectivity and permissions, and report a bug if problems persist.
[11:33] <RunePhilosof> ERROR: Unable to create local copy of Rocketfuel trunk
[11:40] <jelmer> RunePhilosof: are you logged into launchpad on your local system?
[11:40] <RunePhilosof> no
[11:41] <jelmer> RunePhilosof: I think rocketfuel-setup assumes you are
[11:41] <jelmer> RunePhilosof: IIRC it also prompts for your launchpad username
[11:41] <RunePhilosof> the Launchpad.net login is not ## strictly necessary, and you can just hit Return there if you ## want; see below for an explanation.
[11:41] <RunePhilosof> Maybe that text should be clarified then
[11:42] <RunePhilosof> https://dev.launchpad.net/Getting
[11:42] <jelmer> yeah, that seems wrong.. as by default I think it uses $LOGNAME rather than not logging in at all
[11:45] <RunePhilosof> I loaded a ssh agent with my cert and now it runs properly
[11:47] <lifeless> it doesn't assume you are logged in
[11:47] <lifeless> but it assumes if you are, that your ssh setup is correct
[11:47] <lifeless> I thin thats a rasonable assumpton :)
[11:48] <wgrant> No.
[11:48] <wgrant> printf "What is your Launchpad username? [$whoami] "
[11:48] <wgrant> read lpusername
[11:48] <wgrant> if [ -z ${lpusername} ]; then lpusername=${whoami}
[11:48] <wgrant> fi
[11:48] <wgrant> bzr launchpad-login $lpusername
[11:49] <lifeless> garh
[11:49] <wgrant> Yes.
[11:49] <lifeless> okies diaf
[15:23] <danhg> Hey everyone at UDS, I'm Dan, the new Usability & Communications Specialist at Launchpad. I'm going to be doing lots of usability testing today, so please ping me if you're around, and would like to get involved!
[15:27] <danhg> All week actually - so let me know when you're free guys!
[16:21] <czajkowski> mrevell: danhg let me know when you want to get some feedback
[16:21] <czajkowski> :D
[16:26] <matsubara> czajkowski, mrevell's computer is locked up and can't reply to you
[16:27] <czajkowski> probably running some dodgey OS :)
[17:23] <buzz_> are i386 builders due back for ppa building soonish or ?
[18:13] <Ursinha> quick question: if I'm a member of a team and subscribe the team to a bug, any other members of the same team can unsubscribe it or only me?
[18:14] <tumbleweed> they can
[18:15] <Daviey> Ursinha: are you talking about a speicifc bug subscription, or a package subscription?
[18:15] <Ursinha> Daviey: specific bug subscription
[18:16] <Daviey> ah, ok
[18:31] <odin_> Syncing the system clock with the buildd NTP service....  4 Nov 15:01:52 ntpdate[3408]: step time server <IP_ADDRESS> offset -334888.07611 sec ?
[18:31] <odin_> what is the weather like there ?  on the 4th
[18:34] <odin_> maybe run /usr/sbin/ntpdc  "peers" and "sysinfo" on the buildd NTP service system at <IP_ADDRESS> ?
[18:43] <odin_> can I configure a requirement for at least XYZ ram and XYZ total virtual memory, to build my package  (512Mb / 1536Mb) ?
[18:44] <odin_> any idea what those params are for "lakoocha.ppa - Intel 386 (virtual)"  and "hassium.ppa - Intel 386 (virtual)" might be ?
[18:49] <shnatsel> hi everyone
[18:49] <shnatsel> I have a problem with recipes
[18:49] <shnatsel> looks like one of the builds has hung up
[18:49] <shnatsel> https://code.launchpad.net/~elementary-os/+recipe/beat-box-daily
[18:50] <shnatsel> there's no progress in days, while other recipes build fine
[18:50] <shnatsel> and I can't cancel it or request a new build
[18:50] <shnatsel> what shall I do?
[18:52] <odin_> maybe I make a pseudo-package which has pre/init scripts, that checks ram and virtual memory and reports and aborts
[18:53] <odin_> shnatsel, your control file?  has a blank line at an odd place ?
[18:53] <odin_> shnatsel, line 13 should be between line 15 and 16 ?
[18:54] <odin_> shnatsel, line 13 isn't actually blank, so it all looks like one block
[18:55] <shnatsel> odin_: looks like libgtk-3-dev has the line break at the wrong place
[18:56] <odin_> shnatsel, yeah I would not do that either, you can put 1 per line like " libfoo-dev (>= 1.0),"  with a leading space, but no blank line at the end before Standards-Version
[18:57] <shnatsel> odin_: OK, thanks, I'll fix this. Any suggestions about canceling the build or requesting a new one after I fix the packaging?
[18:57] <odin_> shnatsel, then a blank line before "Package: beatbox", since that is the binary package right ?  and separate, I am not 100% if you must have this blank line, but it seems right to me
[18:57] <odin_> shnatsel, apparently you can not cancel builds
[19:02] <geser> shnatsel: to cancel a hung build you need an LP admin. perhaps the current help contact (benji) can help to get in contact with an LP admin.
[19:03] <lifeless> if its a recipe build, it may be in swap death - will recover.
[19:03] <lifeless> unless its on the binary package build already
[19:04] <shnatsel> it's been there since the 26th
[19:04] <czajkowski> aloha
[19:04] <shnatsel> so... I doubt it somehow.
[19:05] <lifeless> shnatsel: thats in needs-build, not actually building
[19:05] <lifeless> shnatsel: I will confer with a developer that knows the innards of this part of the system; we have some buildd-manager bugs that create inconsistent state
[19:05] <lifeless> this may be an example of that
[19:05] <lifeless> StevenK: wgrant: ^
[19:06] <lifeless> https://code.launchpad.net/~elementary-os/+archive/daily/+recipebuild/107056
[19:14] <shnatsel> Oh, looks like I have one more mysterious thing for you to look into
[19:14] <shnatsel> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/84139675/buildlog.txt.gz
[19:14] <shnatsel> Building recipe:
[19:14] <shnatsel> # bzr-builder format 0.3 deb-version {debupstream}-0~{revno}
[19:14] <shnatsel> lp:egtk
[19:14] <shnatsel> merge packaging lp:~elementary-os/egtk/deb-packaging
[19:14] <shnatsel> bzr: ERROR: unknown command "dailydeb"
[19:15] <shnatsel> failed just now.
[19:17] <afranke> Hi. Can an admin of a moderated team change the status of an approved member to admin?
[19:19] <madnick> hehe, topic solved my question :)
[19:22] <shnatsel> afranke: yes. Click "all members" on the team page. You'll get a list of people in the team, with "edit" icon next to each of them. Click it and there will be the permissions setting.
[19:23] <afranke> shnatsel, that's the page where you change subscription date, right?
[19:24] <shnatsel> afranke: expiry date you mean?
[19:24] <afranke> Yes, sorry, that's what I meant.
[19:24] <shnatsel> afranke: yes
[19:24] <afranke> Ok… well I can't change the admin status.
[19:25] <shnatsel> afranke: there's an "Admin: (*) yes ( ) no" switcher
[19:25] <afranke> I have "Administrator:	No"
[19:25] <afranke> But that's just text.
[19:26] <shnatsel> afranke: hmm... no idea, I have it working for me. I'm not the team owner, just an admin, and I can change status of other people.
[19:28] <lifeless> afranke: what team, and whats your lp username ?
[19:28] <afranke> I'm the only admin of ubuntu-l10n-fr and my membership expires in 4 hours. I can't change it and the owner (seb128) is usually inactive (and even more now that he's at UDS). I contacted him one week ago to change my expiration date, but no news.
[19:29] <afranke> I'm afranke (Alexandre Franke).
[19:29] <lifeless> afranke: which user were you trying to promote to admin?
[19:30] <afranke> paroz
[19:30] <afranke> Claude Paroz
[19:31] <lifeless> shnatsel: I think you are the team owner
[19:31] <shnatsel> lifeless: no, I am not.
[19:31] <lifeless> afranke: please open a ticket on answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
[19:31] <lifeless> shnatsel: which team ?
[19:31] <shnatsel> lifeless: I used to be one for 2 hours
[19:31] <shnatsel> lifeless: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-os
[19:31] <lifeless> shnatsel: this could be a fun bug :)
[19:32] <shnatsel> lifeless: It's raining cats and bugs XD
[19:32] <afranke> lifeless, what should I open the ticket for? Not being able to promote, idle owner and my membership expiring, both, something else?
[19:33] <lifeless> shnatsel: and when you click on the edit link beside (say) cody, it will let you toggle the admin flag ?
[19:33] <lifeless> afranke: your membership I'd suggest
[19:33] <afranke> lifeless, ok.
[19:33] <lifeless> afranke: and admin can probably extend it without any issue, for a couple months
[19:33] <shnatsel> lifeless: yes
[19:33] <lifeless> shnatsel: weird
[19:33] <shnatsel> lifeless: never tried, but the switcher is active.
[19:34] <lifeless> shnatsel: that means the form thinks you can,
[19:34] <afranke> lifeless, how does ownership transfer work? Does the owner do it himself or does he ask someone else to do it?
[19:34] <lifeless> afranke: vastly prefer them to do it themselves
[19:34] <lifeless> afranke: which they can do
[19:34] <afranke> Ok.
[19:35] <lifeless> afranke: if they are nonresponsive and the person to whom the transfer should go is in good standing and there is some evidence that its appropriate, then we can do it, but thats the exception.
[19:36] <afranke> lifeless, I guess seb128 is still active enough to handle that.
[19:36] <shnatsel> afranke: the funny thing is that after I made an admin a commoner, I can't toggle it back.
[19:36] <lifeless> shnatsel: heh you tested on prod data did you?
[19:36] <shnatsel> lifeless: exactly.
[19:37] <shnatsel> lifeless: totally forgot about staging.
[19:37] <lifeless> :)
[19:37] <sinzui> lifeless, shnatsel I do not follow the conversation: I see ~seb128 is the owner of  ubuntu-l10n-fr andonlu he can appoint admins
[19:37] <shnatsel> lifeless: the funny thing is I'm developing a staging environment for desktop apps XD
[19:37] <lifeless> sinzui: shnatsel, admin not owner of another team, can promote other members to admin.
[19:38] <sinzui> admins cannot promote.
[19:38] <lifeless> sinzui: afranke, admin not owner of u-*fr cannot promote other members to admin.
[19:38] <shnatsel> yeah they can only defrock
[19:38] <lifeless> shnatsel: *oh* - you were looking at an admin were you ?
[19:39] <lifeless> sinzui: now I get it; admins can unadmin other admins, but not the reverse ?
[19:39] <sinzui> right
[19:39] <lifeless> shnatsel: I thought you were looking at a member
[19:39] <sinzui> and they cannot extend th membership either
[19:39] <lifeless> sinzui: sorry for the distraction then!
[19:39] <lifeless> sinzui: perhaps they should be able to do some of this ?
[19:40] <lifeless> sinzui: I'm thinking owner-is-not-in-team scenarios
[19:40] <sinzui> bug 206058 and bug 4744
[19:40] <sinzui> and bug 102180
[19:41] <afranke> question 177021
[19:41] <lifeless> sinzui: legend
[19:41] <lifeless> sinzui: ah, admins are only prohibited from changing their *own* date ?
[19:41] <afranke> ubot5, I wonder what keyword triggers "answers" links… :)
[19:43] <afranke> answer 177021
[19:43] <afranke> Anyway… https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/177021
[19:43] <lifeless> if benji is still around, he'll look at it I'm sure, otherwise someone else will fairly soon
[19:43] <sinzui> lifeless, yes I think that is the case, but we have a few other bugs where users are blocked renewing and I suspect there are cases where the admin is blocked
[19:44] <afranke> Thank you all for your help.
[19:47] <benji> yep, I'm just off a phone call and about to do a CHR run
[19:50] <afranke> I have to go, see you!
[19:52]  * czajkowski hugs mrevell
[19:52] <Pendulum> danhg: hey, I'm at UDS and would be more than happy to do some testing for you (I'm the woman in the wheelchair so pretty easy to spot ;) )
[19:53] <odin_> Syncing the system clock with the buildd NTP service....  4 Nov 15:01:52 ntpdate[3408]: step time server <IP_ADDRESS> offset -334888.07611 sec ?  maybe run /usr/sbin/ntpdc  "peers" and "sysinfo" on the buildd NTP service system at <IP_ADDRESS> ?
[20:03] <odin_> can I use pbuilder to build but then not cleanup, so I can --login and try commands myself ?
[20:05] <odin_> try --debug
[20:14] <geser> e.g. when a build failed to examine why it failed?
[20:15] <odin_> bzr: ERROR: unknown command "dailydeb", is this correct thing to see from a build worker ?
[20:16] <geser> sorry I've no experience with the recipe builds
[20:17] <tumbleweed> that sounds likea a problem with the daily build chroots, (assiming you are pasting that from a launchpad build log, not something local)
[20:17] <odin_> yup but its lucid, maybe it did not come with bzr-builder by default ?
[20:18] <lifeless> hats the build url
[20:19] <odin_> 84143266 (sorry different machine no c'n'p)
[20:19] <tumbleweed> no ubuntu release comes with bzr-builder by default
[20:19] <odin_> so I add to Build-Depends
[20:20] <lifeless> odin_: well, I suspect you've got something odd going on
[20:20] <odin_> can I run pbuilder locally (on oneiric, but not have it delete anything on failure)
[20:20] <lifeless> odin_: your build rules shouldn't be calling bzr dailydeb or anything like that
[20:20] <odin_> I think it picks it up from the recipe  "# bzr-builder ...."
[20:21] <lifeless> recipe builds are special, they run in an environment with bzr and bzr builder installed.
[20:21] <lifeless> your build deps won't affect recipe builds at all.
[20:23] <odin_> well I have one battle that some peoples VMs are too small, and initializing Java JDK errors, would be nice to configure minimum ram/virtual size hints into debian/control and/or blacklist some workers by name
[20:24] <lifeless> the intel VM's all have 2G, if you can't build in that I think its your software needs the fix :)
[20:24] <odin_> I have seen VMs with 512Mb RAM
[20:25] <odin_> unfortunately it is not my software/package that needs fixing, the install for a build dependency needs fixing and that is beyond my control
[20:25] <odin_> I'm not going to fork and maintain it just for that
[20:27] <odin_> the packages I have seen fail (due to lack of Java heap, is openjdk-6-jre-headless and ca-certificates-java both run the JVM, I guess without using -Xmx256 to place a heap restriction on it), but I don't know the real cause and I don't maintain those packages
[20:28] <odin_> the option -Xmx256M would restrict the max heap to 256Mb and would probably fix the problem if the pre/post/install/configure scripts were fixed
[20:29] <jelmer> lamont: ping
[20:29] <lamont> morning
[20:29] <jelmer> hi
[20:30] <jelmer> it seems like some builders now no longer have the dailydeb command (from bzr-builder) available
[20:30] <lamont> and how are you today?
[20:30] <lamont> jelmer: sorted.  see also bug 616878
[20:30] <jelmer> lamont: did you see my last comment on that bug?
[20:31] <jelmer> lamont: great, so the bzr-builder issue should now be fixed? was that just recently?
[20:32] <lamont> jelmer: read it now, and I suspect that the answer is "not yet" - the commit is occurring at the tail end of the late_command in debian-installer, before the reboot
[20:32] <lamont> the current user is root
[20:32] <lamont> if we really think it's limited to the d-i world, that'd be cool
[20:33] <jelmer> lamont: I don't think there is a regression of bug 616878, but this a situation we just didn't try to cover in our fix
[20:34] <lamont> jelmer: /etc/mailname was not present on the machine at the time of the commit
[20:34] <lamont>  cat /etc/mailname
[20:34] <lamont> cat: /etc/mailname: No such file or directory
[20:34] <lamont> yep.  definitely wasn't there at install time... it still isn't
[20:35] <jelmer> ok
[20:36] <lamont> and yeah, new case
[20:36] <lamont> sorry for not getting that one in initially
[20:36] <lamont> the ticket has a bit of my grumbling, fwiw
[20:42] <odin_> how do I stop pbuilder from deleting /var/cache/pbuilder/build/** on error ?
[20:43] <jelmer> lamont: Thanks I'll try to put as much info as I can in a new bug report
[20:44]  * jelmer spits out a comma
[20:45] <jelmer> odin_: #ubuntu-packaging is perhaps a better place for that sort of question
[20:45] <shnatsel> I have more of those recipe errors
[20:45] <shnatsel> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/84145718/buildlog.txt.gz
[20:47] <jelmer> lamont: ^
[20:47] <jelmer> lamont: I'm also still getting command not found errors
[20:47] <jelmer> most recently on dubnium
[20:48] <lamont> it would be good if you did a dpkg -l bzr-builder in there... maybe you already do
[20:49] <jelmer> lamont: I had the same though, I filed a bug against Launchpad about doing exactly that this morning.
[20:50] <lamont> ii  bzr            2.4.0-0ubuntu2 easy to use distributed version control syst
[20:50] <lamont> ii  bzr-builder    0.7.1-0ubuntu1 construct a bzr branch from a recipe
[20:50] <lamont> (dubnium)root@dubnium:~#
[20:50] <lamont> looks current to me...
[20:50] <shnatsel> jeblair: bug number?
[20:50] <lamont> machine has been up for 2:30
[20:50] <lamont> 150 minutes
[20:51] <jelmer> lamont: does 'bzr plugins' list 'builder' as one of the entries/
[20:51] <jelmer> ?
[20:52] <lamont> nope
[20:52] <lamont> http://paste.ubuntu.com/724693/
[20:53] <jelmer> lamont: those version numbers suggest it's not running one of the backports - is it using post-lucid, or did the version numbers change after the upload to the cat archive?
[20:53] <lamont> hrmpf
[20:54] <lamont> ii  bzr                                          2.4.0-0ubuntu2~11.IS.8.04                    easy to use distributed version control system
[20:54] <lamont> ii  bzr-builder                                  0.7.1-0ubuntu1~6.IS.8.04                     construct a bzr branch from a recipe
[20:54] <lamont> helps if dpkg -l doesn't make it fit
[20:54] <lamont> amusing place it chose to truncate the version at though
[20:55] <jelmer> ah, heh
[20:59] <jelmer> oh fuck. the hardy-cat bzr-builder package has a python namespace issue because it's using python-support rather than python-central
[21:00] <jelmer> so the plugin doesn't get picked up by bzr
[21:01] <lamont> jelmer: wonderful. :(
[21:02] <lamont> jelmer: I'll see if I can corner someone who might have a better answer than "sucks to be you".  meanwhile, wanna work on that python-central version?
[21:02] <jelmer> lamont: already on it
[21:06] <lamont> jelmer: the definitive answer is "use the same one as the distro does for namespace packages".  IOW, sucks to be you
[21:12] <jelmer> lamont: thanks, that does indeed mean switching bzr-builder to -central
[21:13] <jelmer> lamont: I wonder how this ever worked in QA though, or was that perhaps with an old version of the packages as well?
[21:14] <lamont> quite possibly.  dunno
[21:45] <odin_> when does the dailydeb fix go live across the workers ?
[21:54] <jelmer> lamont: still there?
[21:57] <lamont> sure
[22:10] <jelmer> lamont: see privmsg
[22:20] <jelmer> lamont: to summarize - there is a package with pycentral in the PPA, would it be possible to deploy that soon?
[23:07] <jelmer> lamont: ping?
[23:15] <wgrant> lifeless: Ah, that's from the build farm vs. dogfood incident last week.
[23:15] <wgrant> lifeless: We fixed binary builds, but not recipes.
[23:18] <lifeless> wgrant: thanks
[23:26] <lamont> jelmer: ack


[00:40] <derek_> This is just a test.
[08:29] <PK> I'm running the subiquety installer of 24.04 beta on a Raspberry 4b and it crashes on the selection of the time region map. Then a desktop session starts but I have to know a username and password there and in don't... Is there a way out?
[11:55] <doko> please could somebody look at "tests in progress" which are not running, like sqlsmith/arm64 with an empty arm64 queue?
[12:10] <Skia> doko: looking
[12:15] <Skia> doko: what test are you talking about? I don't see any arm64 tests for sqlsmith, only amd64 and s390x, and those queues are not empty at all
[12:17] <doko> sqlsmith (1.4-1build1 to 1.4-1build2)
[12:17] <doko> Migration status for sqlsmith (1.4-1build1 to 1.4-1build2): Waiting for test results, another package or too young (no action required now - check later)
[12:17] <doko> Issues preventing migration:
[12:17] <doko> autopkgtest for sqlsmith/1.4-1build2: amd64: Pass, arm64: Test in progress, armhf: Pass, ppc64el: Pass, s390x: Test in progress
[12:17] <doko> Skia:
[12:19] <doko> searching for "arm64: Test in progress" shows 3879 items. ouch
[12:20] <doko> same for ppc64el: Test in progress,
[12:27] <Skia> doko: that's strange, I can't find that test anywhere in the infra, just as if it had never been queued
[12:28] <doko> there should be cron'd check looking for these oddities
[12:31] <Skia> maybe. What I see is that the queues have had some big cleaning Saturday evening, in the range of 4k items dropped for all arches except amd64 and i386. That doesn't look like the usual cleaning we sometimes run, that generally affects all architectures.
[12:32] <doko> ok, asking steve
[12:36] <Skia> ack, thanks for reporting. bdmurray may also know something about this situation.


[01:10] <nomic> pi3 is losing date time
[01:10] <nomic> mate
[01:10] <nomic> dunno why
[01:12] <nomic> "pi3 lacks hardware clock"
[01:12] <nomic> in that it doesn't have battery clock
[01:14] <nomic> "ntpdate" .. you have to install .. sets time when network up
[02:04] <Guest9387> Hello!
[02:08] <criss969> oh dang son
[02:09] <Jack_Sparrow> Aloha
[08:45] <neeraj> Hi everyone
[08:46] <neeraj> I need help to install wine in ubuntu mate...
[13:29] <wang> any body here?
[13:38] <mate_> Hello
[13:41] <mate_> Question regarding grub screen on startup. Upon bootup I get a grub screen where I have to enter "exit" twice before the boot will continue. Is there a way to get rid of that? To be clear, this is the second install of 16 04. The first time I installed it I did not get the grub screen. Thanks
[13:54] <Guest26899> how do i turn off Orca Screen Reader
[13:55] <Guest26899> I don't have a insert key on my keyboard
[13:58] <Guest26899> you should think about removing it till the interface is worked out
[14:07] <adam__> Hi. I have a fresh installation of Ubuntu-MATE 17.04. Does anyone know how to prevent focus-stealing? I have searched the web but not found anything recent (just things applicable to other window managers).
[15:47] <g1ng3k1k3l> wew
[16:50] <Jack_Sparrow> !find maya
[16:51] <Jack_Sparrow> !info maya
[17:47] <subrag> Question regarding grub screen on startup. Upon bootup I get a grub screen where I have to enter "exit" twice before the boot will continue. Is there a way to get rid of that? To be clear, this is the second install of 16 04. The first time I installed it I did not get the grub screen. Thanks
[17:52] <guest-uiBetC> hi guys
[18:31] <jimsio> right-click doesn't work at first. clicking shows the menu for a split second. clicking several times helps. any idea what's wrong?
[18:49] <b4udv8> ubuntu MATE is gr8! - i've tried others, but ALWAYS come back!
[19:00] <mari> hi guys im new with linuc
[19:00] <mari> linux
[19:01] <Akuli> hi :)
[19:02] <Guest36705> how to update the distro with the terminal?
[19:02] <Guest36705> hi
[19:05] <KTrad> sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade
[19:05] <Guest36705> ah ok what does the && mean?
[19:05] <Guest36705> thanks
[19:06] <KTrad> just lets you run both without having to type out the second part on the next prompt
[19:06] <Guest36705> i see ^^ i try to learn terminal commands
[19:07] <Guest36705> it wouldnt work if i would only use one & right?
[19:07] <KTrad> nope don't think so. Though honestly have never tried
[19:09] <Guest36705> anyone is familiar with Playonlinux?
[19:09] <Guest36705> here*
[19:10] <KTrad> I know of it haven't use it in years as I haven't had a need
[19:10] <KTrad> used*
[19:10] <Guest36705> well i d like to use ms office
[19:11] <Guest36705> it is pretty good for german users
[19:11] <KTrad> many of the newer versions of office don't run to well in wine/PoL if I recall correctly
[19:11] <KTrad> too*
[19:12] <Guest36705> yeah i ve read that. It works until 2010
[19:13] <KTrad> why not run a VM with windows just for when you need to use office? unless you're planning on using the older versions of office.
[19:13] <KTrad> haven't tried since office 2000
[19:15] <Guest36705> i must say i tried many distros, but mate is working pretty well
[19:15] <Guest36705> actually the only that worked
[19:15] <Guest36705> i tried 5 atleast
[19:15] <Guest36705> that uefi stuff is annoying
[19:15] <Guest36705> and secure boot
[19:16] <KTrad> you can turn secure boot off and enable legacy booting
[19:16] <Guest36705> yeah i always turned it off but
[19:16] <Guest36705> i never turned legacy on
[19:17] <KTrad> ahh
[19:17] <Guest36705> i meant to say.. i turned the secure boot off, but not legacy, that was my problem
[19:18] <KTrad> yea, I know openSUSE, and CentOS 7 work just fine with UEFI and so do all of the Ubuntu distros in my experience.
[19:19] <KTrad> but that is with multiple thinkpads not sure about other vendors
[19:54] <hoopotus> I find it impossible to install Ubuntu Mate in Legacy mode. It will not boot. That's why I've been forced to use Uefi mode. Tried Acet and Lenovo laptops
[20:08] <Akuli> hoopotus, are you from finland?
[20:08] <Akuli> moi :D
[20:09] <OMGNMN> i
[20:09] <OMGNMN> but i just installed ubuntu mate in Legacy mode
[20:10] <OMGNMN> it was the only way i could boot the distro
[21:52] <frank_> hello
[21:52] <frank_> New user to Ubuntu MATE running from windows vista what can I expect
[21:53] <frank_> hello?
[23:40] <margarito> dir
[23:40] <margarito> help
[23:40] <margarito> dir


[08:20] <dholbach> good morning
[08:46] <davidcalle> Morning o/
[08:46] <popey> morning
[08:46] <popey> feeling better dholbach ?
[08:47] <popey> i had some orange juice for breakfast today and pretended it cost me $5
[08:47] <popey> was delicious
[09:18] <czajkowski> lol
[10:03] <popey> Also, I make better poached eggs than the hotel.
[10:03] <popey> nom nom nom
[10:58] <davidcalle> popey: yes, but do they cost $30?
[13:47] <dpm> dholbach, have you happened to test the unity 8 session on xenial?
[13:48] <dholbach> dpm: I haven't tried it for a longer while
[13:48] <dholbach> dpm: what is it like?
[13:49] <dpm> dholbach, it didn't work for me, but then I had an old installation of the unity8-lxc session, and I'm thinking they might be conflicting
[13:49] <dholbach> I'm curious now :)
[13:49] <dholbach> brb :)
[13:49] <dpm> popey, davidcalle_3g, have you happened to test the xenial unity 8 session? ^
[13:50] <popey> not recently
[13:50] <popey> My only xenial machine runs an nvidia card, so it's a pain to test
[13:50] <dpm> let's ask dholbach when he's back
[13:51] <dpm> I'm still on 15.10 on my laptop, but I switched to xenial on my desktop pc after coming back from Ubucon
[13:51] <dpm> so far it seems to have improved on the department of 15.10 having X crashes all of the time
[13:52] <dpm> next thing I'd like to try is the unity 8 session, as we get lots of questions about unity 8 on the desktop
[13:52] <dpm> but I think my old unity8-lxc install broke what we ship in xenial
[13:57] <popey> 14.04 laptop and 16.04 desktop here
[13:58] <popey> \o/ late lunch
[13:59] <dpm> talking to willcooke it seems it's not installed by default. Will try to install unity8-desktop-session-mir and give it a go
[14:07] <dholbach> hum... I couldn't login
[14:10] <willcooke> dpm, saw your question, but I got kicked off the Canonical IRC server and now I'm getting auth failures
[14:10] <dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1539614
[14:13] <dpm> willcooke, np, I was asking about the plan for the unity 8 session
[14:13] <dpm> dholbach, seems that bug is private?
[14:13] <dpm> dholbach, Will mentioned that the unity 8 session is not installed by default yet
[14:14] <dholbach> dpm: it's a crasher bug
[14:14] <dholbach> they always start as private until they're retraced
[14:14] <dholbach> dpm: right, I installed it manually
[14:22] <dpm> dholbach, so you installed unity8-desktop-session-mir and it resulted in a crash when you logged in?
[14:23] <dholbach> yes, I installed some additional unity8* packages too, but I can't remember since it was a long time ago already
[14:24]  * dpm tries installing the *session-mir package
[14:31] <dpm> dholbach, so yeah, it crashed here too
[14:43] <willcooke> wfm
[14:43] <willcooke> \o/
[14:53] <dholbach> dpm: is it also unity8-dash which crashes for you?
[14:53] <dholbach> dpm: does the crash look similar to https://launchpadlibrarian.net/235660153/ThreadStacktrace.txt?
[14:53] <dpm> dholbach, I managed to get it working after trial and error, or rather trial and lottery :)
[14:54] <dholbach> oh... so you just tried over and over again?
[14:54] <dholbach> dpm: can you maybe look in /var/crash anyway and see if there's anything recent in there?
[14:54] <dpm> After deleting the contents of ~/.cache/upstart and rebooting, I could get into the session
[14:54] <dholbach> oh ok
[14:54] <dholbach> let me try that
[14:54] <dholbach> br
[14:54] <dpm> I have two crash reports there, for unity and the dash
[14:54] <dholbach> brb
[14:54] <dpm> dholbach,
[14:54] <dholbach> ok
[14:54] <dpm> a caveat:
[14:55] <dpm> even after logging into the session, it seems apps don't start
[14:55] <dholbach> can you report them by just running ubuntu-bug on them? maybe they're the same as the crash I saw earlier
[14:55] <dpm> not sure
[14:55] <dpm> ah
[14:55] <dholbach> all right, brb
[14:55] <dpm> the crash logs
[14:55] <dpm> sure
[14:55] <dholbach> the .crash files
[14:55] <dholbach> cool
[14:55] <dholbach> :)
[15:02] <dholbach> no, didn't work for me either
[15:02] <dholbach> moving .cache/upstart made X crash and I couldn't login in either session
[15:04] <dpm> dholbach, ah, I didn't move the folder, I deleted its contents
[15:04] <dholbach> it looks like the directory is created if it's not there
[15:04] <dpm> in any case, it seems ubuntu-bug doesn't let me report the bug, as I've got some unrelated upgradable packages (which can't be upgraded)
[15:08] <dholbach> ugh
[16:36] <dholbach> all right my friends - I call it a day - see you all on Monday again - have a great weekend! :)
[16:54] <popey> Kids home from school, be afk for a little bit.
[16:54] <popey> oh, meetings, maybe not