 nice video showing the results of flashing Halium 9 / UBports GSI  to a Redmi Note 7  https://youtu.be/eGjplOtzSFI
[03:11] <ubptgbot> maxqwars was added by: maxqwars
[04:52] <ubptgbot> hooliganshark was added by: hooliganshark
 @TotalSonic [nice video showing the results of flashing Halium 9 / UBports GSI  to a Redmi No …], Nice
[05:02] <ubptgbot> Silas Santana was added by: Silas Santana
[05:03] <ubptgbot> <Silas Santana> @TotalSonic [nice video showing the results of flashing Halium 9 / UBports GSI  to a Redmi No …], Can I use this gsi for redmi note 8?
[05:03] <ubptgbot> <Silas Santana> Or here have some port for redmi note 8?
 @Silas Santana [Can I use this gsi for redmi note 8?], I don't know - it's not my video - was just sharing it.
 @Flohack [Too.Slooow..Progress... When they are finished with that most devices will be de …], And what do you suggest?
 @AllHafRA [And what do you suggest?], Sadly, not every device is a good porting target. We are now putting gears into getting Android 9 Support done and also Non-Android phones. Android 10 is out, 11 will come soon. We have to skip forward, and so probably its better you try to find a more modern device. Mainllining is nice, but by the ti
[07:15] <ubptgbot> me you are on par with all drivers, if ever, since you wont be able to get all sources you need, the device is irrelevant to consumers. If you want to proliferate the Android dominance, you need masses of users, and they want modern hardware.
 @Flohack [Sadly, not every device is a good porting target. We are now putting gears into …], I absolutely don't want dominance android). I dream that the developers of separate free operating systems will normally unite and create one system that, after ten years of development and ecosystem expansion, will be able to free consumers (wh
[07:23] <ubptgbot> o will no longer be "consumers") at least in the mobile market 😊 … And fiddling with drivers really does require more rational work.
 My "wet" dreams😁
 @AllHafRA [My "wet" dreams😁], True that about dreams. My return is: Even with the best OS in terms of freedom and openness, you need users. If nobody uses it its useless. So, you need so also perceive how users see mobile devices in 2020, 2025 etc. And basically the usage of a mobile device is also bound to certain hardware properties. Y
[07:28] <ubptgbot> ou need to give them a decent hardware with a good OS. That wont work by reverse-engineering ton of old devices. Most users want new hardware. Batter life problems. Broken screeens and switches. 2nd hand devices have a risk.
 only things we can do is wait for UEFI revaled for ARM/RISC-V?
 [Edit] only things we can do is wait for UEFI/BIOS revaled for ARM/RISC-V?
 @twilipi [only things we can do is wait for UEFI/BIOS revaled for ARM/RISC-V?], That would be somethings.
 @twilipi [only things we can do is wait for UEFI/BIOS revaled for ARM/RISC-V?], [Edit] That would be something.
 @twilipi [only things we can do is wait for UEFI/BIOS revaled for ARM/RISC-V?], Hmm mobile SoCs hardly ever have an UEFI BIOS, what are you talking about?
 @Flohack [True that about dreams. My return is: Even with the best OS in terms of freedom …], Well, who doesn't want to do, finds many excuses, right? Breaking into the mobile market against two titans is a difficult task, but achievable - remember what it was like for them in the beginning? They had only freshness platform and unique fe
[07:51] <ubptgbot> atures. How did users find out about them? Advertising. How did users suffer from early version bugs? The developers quickly fixed it - it felt like a serious approach. Confidence and dynamism are what a new mobile OS needs. How can this be ensured? The developer association, which I already mentioned, and sponsors. The app store should already be
[07:51] <ubptgbot> expanding at this stage. It is also useful in marketing to point out to the user the disadvantages of the systems used and the advantages of yours. Do you think choosing an android 10 years ago was the user's choice? Marketing decided for people. You just need to give a little push, and when a person comes here and sees that the system does not wat
[07:51] <ubptgbot> ch him, is less demanding on the hardware, it is free and secure, financially beneficial, and in the center of applications there are the necessary ones - he will remain. In Russia, android smartphones already cost $ 140 - if only they bought these spy probs. As if they were more expensive to produce before ... And the hardware of the iPhone is not
[07:51] <ubptgbot>  worth the huge price tags - a continuous damn market. So why play by these rules?
 @AllHafRA [Well, who doesn't want to do, finds many excuses, right? Breaking into the mobil …], Well thats true for an initial market opening with early adopters etc. But, now so many years later, you have totally different situation. Human beings are strong in comparing things. Compare old vs new, blue vs red etc. The human brain is a hu
[07:54] <ubptgbot> ge neural comparator in fact. All our life decisions are made through comparing advantages vs disadvantages - 24/7 every day all time. Okay not when we sleep lol. … So, if nothing is there, you can easily convince people to buy X. But, and we know this from now 4 years into the project. Peoples questions in this group and many others are primarily:
[07:54] <ubptgbot>  Will this phone be equivalent to my current phone, and allow me to do all things I do now? Thats a question you must answer. People primarily do not want to have a loss in comfort, be it open or closed source. And I am talking about the masses, not a few 1000 tech nerds.
 I also think you're missing the part where Ubuntu Touch doesn't have the same budget as Google and Apple has, @AllHafRA
 You have to aim initially for the question: How will thsi phone convince 100 to 200k people to swap instantly to UT ? Well thats not easy
 And then later, lets say 10k people per day
 And we would still take many years to get into a reasonable market share
 Its a fact you need a modern hardware for this. So better look what we can do with todays hardware than try to stick with 5 year old devices forever
 Okay, what's the problem with changing the strategy a little - to provide an immediate ready-made ecosystem for the end user? But for this you need resources - no more developing dozens of separate operating systems. If you take their app stores and put them together, it will be released on 2 google stores. And in general, it seems to me
[07:59] <ubptgbot>  that it is necessary to transfer the desktop system to a smartphone - this is more promising.
 @Lorxu [I also think you're missing the part where Ubuntu Touch doesn't have the same bu …], No one with a huge budget is born except the children of billionaires.
 @AllHafRA [Okay, what's the problem with changing the strategy a little - to provide an imm …], Well unifying things is hard in open source. People work not for money but for ideals. Now tell them that the App store they developed for 3 years needs to go away for a "better one".
 Thats why we have so many forks. People wont give up what they babysitted
 Except you pay them lol
 Create a system where you can install all these app formats or make someone cry. If nothing has changed, then nothing will change.  The huge disadvantage of an open community is the lack of a leader. As a result, a collective that can fight back is scattered over a vast territory and provides food only to private e
[08:12] <ubptgbot> xploiters.
 @AllHafRA [Create a system where you can install all these app formats or make someone cry. …], Well yes but then again, if you were the leader, what do you do to make people follow you :)
 It hurts me for Linux ...
 The excuse man deserves a monument in the city center.😊
 We will continue to write code for our own pleasure, because "yes, but", "yes, but", etc.
 @AllHafRA [Create a system where you can install all these app formats or make someone cry. …], Its also its strength. Big companies with a leader sometimes follow a bad track because the leader believes in it. Big companies are also very inefficient in general. Only through competition with other companies they can achieve good progress. T
[08:16] <ubptgbot> he Open Source world is mostly vital through its internal competition as well.
 @jonny [Its also its strength. Big companies with a leader sometimes follow a bad track …], Well I disagree. Companies even with low competition are successful if they create a vlaue for the customers. In Opensource there is no pressure for making money, so often things are created that ordinary users dont see the value. Its a fact. Lets
[08:17] <ubptgbot> create value
 Even with a monopoly, if you are the only company for product x, you cant be successful if no one buys your stuff
 @jonny [Its also its strength. Big companies with a leader sometimes follow a bad track …], Microsoft is only one, this role is already taken)
 And I don't really understand what kind of competition exists in the open community, if 1-2% uses about these products (on desktop, for example)
 @AllHafRA [And I don't really understand what kind of competition exists in the open commun …], Yeah as I said its not competition its about fulfilling the wishes of customers. Usability and value
 @Flohack [Yeah as I said its not competition its about fulfilling the wishes of customers. …], But I am quite comfortable in Linux-desktop. I cannot start 1-2 games due to drivers and 2-3 games due to anti-cheat, but this is no longer a Linux problem. All other games and software work great for me, I litter my system myself (and not a co
[08:28] <ubptgbot> rporation that dictates) - is this not happiness on a desktop? This is a very delicate question of human psychology, not software problems. Have you tried implementing Linux in college where everyone was working on Windows? There were such ridiculous questions of elementary computer illiteracy, not related to the comfort of Linux itself - I had to
[08:28] <ubptgbot> teach them what Windows did not try to teach them. It was so funny.
 What is it for? For example, Linux-Desktop needs advertising, it is already quite comfortable. By combining your efforts in the mobile segment and thoroughly engaging in advertising, you can do the same. If the majority is engaged in excuses or programs only for their own pleasure, then of course a leader is needed to promote such an OS.
 The main thing is to prevent the appearance of the second apple. God forbid.
 The user buys a smartphone for $ 130-150 and gets an open system in which there are applications he needs and everything works fine. Oh, I shed a lot of tears ...
 (Sticker, 512x451) https://irc.ubports.com/3u8nRcOa.webp
 @AllHafRA [But I am quite comfortable in Linux-desktop. I cannot start 1-2 games due to dri …], Well you can try to convince people of benefits - thats what Marketing is doing all the time - but you will quickly find out that ordinary users, while finding privacy and openness important, also want to have not too much drawbacks. Good camer
[08:38] <ubptgbot> a, WhatsApp, banking apps - why they should give up this, what works for them for years?
[08:40] <ubptgbot> <Captain Pugwash> My pinephone just auto updated! Awesome!
 What I wrote above assumes the presence of all the applications you listed ...
 You do not have a compelling argument for masses that don´t know and don´t care about technical details. You need to step out of the Nerd basket, and try to answer questions like: Who is taking care of App security?  Who can encrypt a
[08:40] <ubptgbot> device really successfully? Who can recover data from the cloud when you loose your device? Thats all things we are not able to answer right now. Openness creates risk. And risks are scary
 @Captain Pugwash [My pinephone just auto updated! Awesome!], Yes, until we believe in our strength, we rejoice in little things) ...
 Our openess actually makes the devices less secure then even early Android versions.
 [Edit] Our openess actually makes the devices less secure than even early Android versions.
 @Flohack [Well I disagree. Companies even with low competition are successful if they crea …], In my short life I have seen enough activities in companies that didn't provide any value. In contrast, an Open Source project needs to provide value as well or it will just live a sad life without users. Who wants to maintain software without use
[08:42] <ubptgbot> rs?
 @Flohack [Our openess actually makes the devices less secure than even early Android versi …], Doesn't this apply to the Linux kernel? Probably because there is Linus and his "no"?
 @AllHafRA [And I don't really understand what kind of competition exists in the open commun …], Competition does not just start with 700 Mio. users. Competition starts the moment where a handful of users decide between different solutions.
 @jonny [In my short life I have seen enough activities in companies that didn't provide …], Exactly I dont maintain anything for myself ^^
 @AllHafRA [Doesn't this apply to the Linux kernel? Probably because there is Linus and his …], The kernel has nothing to do with it, its about how Android secures the bootloader, the boot images and the unlocking of the device itself with hardware tools. They are proprietary and protected by signing keys from Google and the vendor, to fen
[08:45] <ubptgbot> ce off any tampering attempts. We could only do this if we get our keys into the hardware.
 Currently anybody can get data off a stolen or lost UT phone if he can boot it into recovery and connect a cable.
 Okay, I get you. I'm starting to build a monument)
 (Photo, 1024x768) https://irc.ubports.com/ZlRtnK41.png Something like this:
 @Flohack I've been wondering about the 'openness' problem as well.  it seems all the mobile distros would be more easily compromised than desktop Linux.  Has much thought gone into this or is it mainly focused on 'get it working now and figure out the rest later'?
 @blihp [@Flohack I've been wondering about the 'openness' problem as well.  it seems all …], Desktop Linux is as easily compromised if you dont enable full encryption file system. Which nobody I know does.
 Like any PC. Also Windows.
 @Flohack [Currently anybody can get data off a stolen or lost UT phone if he can boot it i …], I did that to an old Samsung phone once. The screen broke and I managed to unlock the bootloader and scrape off some data. It sounds like full disk encryption would be the way to solve this part.
 Windows now has Bitlocker in place that uses the TPM mobule. Thats quite nice
 speak for yourself ;-)  That's my point though: you can secure desktop Linux.  Mobile Linux seems to be lacking on this front in comparison.
 Full disk encryption is one of our most wanted features. The problem for that is: You need a GUI to unlock it, means certain parts of the OS must be already running. YOu need the touch screen working etc. So full encryption will not be there, probably only user data folders
 So when you encrypt it, you also need a good backup. Its unacceptable that users would loose their data if the device breaks the screen eg.
 I would personally not use a device with that risk in place. Remember what I said before, risks are scary
 Yep.  There's a ton of stuff that mobile Linux won't be able to do anytime soon because there aren't all of the supporting services people take for granted in the iOS and Android world
 I've been dealing with things like how do I deploy/manage/backup these little ARM devices around my house for over a decade now... it's work!
 Why did you even start talking about security on mobile OS? Android users do not care about their security at all - just do memory encryption in your OS and it will be better than the security of the android. Does porting a desktop system to a mobile platform imply porting and security technologies? Make isolated containers, leave import
[08:56] <ubptgbot> ant operations with a strong password, and the openness of applications and OS will provide frequent security patches.
 @AllHafRA [Why did you even start talking about security on mobile OS? Android users do not …], Yes users dont care. Thats why Android comes with enforced security. You cannot opt out. They wanted to make it worry-free for users, they dont need to think about this part of security. Thats what you need to do, fulfil the job for your users,
[08:58] <ubptgbot>  and dont explain to them how they could make it. enforce it, thats the only way how to prevent disasters
 What you are talking about is quite nice, but again, if I get physical access to the device and can boot a recovery or flash my own bootloader its compromised. mem encryption, container all nice. But I download the full flash offlinbe
 And no, making mobile devices should not take over the security from a desktop, it should make it even better. desktops are not lost or stolen that much :D
 Sorry, I find it difficult to continue this topic, because I remember the success stories of companies that wanted to achieve this, and in this case, I believe that the problems are not in the software, but in the people who deal with it (that is, here I can only get personal, and this is already a non-constructive dialogue).
 We can give counter-arguments for a long time while more determined people take over the market. And I think that the time has come when the open community should come together for a common goal, and not cherish its ego in separate projects. And all of the software problems listed above can be solved in a shorter time.
 @AllHafRA [We can give counter-arguments for a long time while more determined people take …], Well human behaviour. The coming-together part will simply not happen unless you pay everybody fulltime equivalent of cash. Same for me, I will not implement anything that I am not convinced its a good thing, or I get paid for it.  If you don´t pay me, I decide what will be the goal. Thats more or less whats happening. And I can understand it, we all need to live, to take care for our families etc. So, if I devote my precious free time for Ubuntu Touch, it should make sense for me
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/rZTYXOKU.png Foto da Cosimo
[11:27] <ubptgbot> Linux was added by: Linux
 Hello, are there any way to block sms from some number or just block every sms not from phonebook?
 Thank you
 To block calls, there is F-Call Pro but it doesn't work for SMS. I believe there is nothing else for the time being.
 Oh... I really need to block sms, so anoying ads 😩. Thank you anyway
 @Linux [Oh... I really need to block sms, so anoying ads 😩. Thank you anyway], Make a feature request into messaging app plz, Lionel is happy to analyze it ^^
 @Flohack [Make a feature request into messaging app plz, Lionel is happy to analyze it ^^], How to do that?
 @Linux [How to do that?], Create an account on Github. Go to here: https://github.com/ubports/messaging-app/issues - press New issue, write.
 Ok, thank you
 lol
 humm that would need some work...
 but blocking contact/number is often requested
 [Edit] hugh not an easy task...
 @lduboeuf [but blocking contact/number is often requested], Yes... please add it. Thank you so much
 well i don't even know where we could put the "spam" contact list.... :)
 [Edit] well i don't even know where we could put the "spam" contact list.... :) ( database or file )
 and i see impact on > 4 components ...
 @lduboeuf [and i see impact on > 4 components ...], Could this filter be applied to push notification server? Just thinking loud.
 @lduboeuf [well i don't even know where we could put the "spam" contact list.... :) ( datab …], Whatever is easiest. 😎
 humm yeah interesting to do, but how would i find enough free time to do it 😢
 @Danfro [Could this filter be applied to push notification server? Just thinking loud.], No, SMS is coming from your local Modem
 the simplest I can think of is just isolating the list of blocked sms in the messaging app but the user will still be  notified about it. I guess this needs to be implemented in ofono?
 Hey everyone! We're looking for someone to translate the PineTab Getting Started guide to French. Results can be sent in this group or to me as a .odt file.
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/B9wL2aBm.odt
 I forward your message to french channel
 @Javacookies [the simplest I can think of is just isolating the list of blocked sms in the mes …], I think there is a component that is called "approver" in telephony-service could be responsible for that
 I see, I'm not really familiar on this so I'm just guessing 😅
 but maybe i'm wrong lol, there are so many layers and services ^^
 so many messages to wake up to
 (Photo, 799x598) https://irc.ubports.com/ZJATkmgQ.png An experimental Ubuntu 18.04 ISO with Lomiri is now available at https://mega.nz/folder/XVZCRQrR#ISFdufta_3ZbacJahEzzFA … You can grab a torrent copy here: https://k-jtan.ca/torrents/distributions/ubuntu-unity/ … It isn't installable, but is a LiveCD for testing purposes. Please note th
[14:35] <ubptgbot> at it is extremely experimental and not stable at all at the moment and most of the apps crash. Lomiri looks awesome! …  I cannot start 1-2 games due to dri …], wasn't going to say anything but your posts really tempt me lol. Really linux's problem isn't "fragmentation" as that just a side effect of the freedom it gives, nothing is "forced" everyone add what they deem valuable. the only thing holding
[15:26] <ubptgbot> it back is like flo said: people comparing it to existing os's and most notoriously; can i run x app. that's all it needs really. those "popular" apps are already coming to the linux desktop slowly and what do we see? the market share steadily increases it was at an all time high this year iirc. … and that's also the case for ubuntu touch, let the
[15:26] <ubptgbot> os mature and run on modern devices and as people come in and enjoy we'll gain support for popular apps as more and more will request it
 @twilipi [a stupid question, is there anyway to add some custom keyboard input method to U …], no, support for traditional input method plug-in stuff never got added afaik
 @twilipi [a stupid question, is there anyway to add some custom keyboard input method to U …], you'll need to modify the keyboard code in keyboard-component to do that
 what method is that if i may ask?
 @Fuseteam [you'll need to modify the keyboard code in keyboard-component to do that], something like this thing, that's one of the 3 major typing method for Chinese society despite of pinyin and chewing https://github.com/Cangjians/ibus-cangjie
 yeah, there's no ibus stuff in lomiri afaik
 @Fuseteam [you'll need to modify the keyboard code in keyboard-component to do that], [Edit] something like this thing, that's one of the 3 major typing method for Chinese society (the other 2 are pinyin and chewing for Mainland China and Taiwan respectfully ) https://github.com/Cangjians/ibus-cangjie
 what would a cangjie keyboard look like on an OSK though?
 android/ios have one?
 ah cangjie
 (Photo, 1200x675) https://irc.ubports.com/1J3rG70G.png something like this
 i suppose a feature request on keyboard-component in order
 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.inputmethod.latin … google's Gboard has implemented as the image
 yeah. i'd suggest making a PR to keyboard-component to add such a keyboard; based from the xenial branch
 @Fuseteam [i suppose a feature request on keyboard-component in order], great
 file the feature request at https://github.com/ubports/keyboard-component
 [Edit] file the feature request at https://github.com/ubports/keyboard-component please
 [Edit] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.inputmethod.latin … google's Gboard has implemented as the image above
 [Edit] i suppose a feature request on keyboard-component is in order
 @Fuseteam [file the feature request at https://github.com/ubports/keyboard-component please], cool I'll post that feature request later
 that looks pretty normal. I think it'll be fairly simple to create such layout
 i think the layout itself is rather easy: replace the qwerty layout with the correct characters
 the challenge is to interpret the characters correctly
 @Fuseteam [the challenge is to interpret the characters correctly], actually the biggest challenge is to port the logic
 @Fuseteam [the challenge is to interpret the characters correctly], [Edit] actually the biggest challenge is to port the inspiring and searching algorithm
 that's what i'm calling the "interpretation"
 @Fuseteam [that's what i'm calling the "interpretation"], I see
 as with cangjie you rarely actually type the character on the label of the key
 [Edit] as with cangjie you rarely actually type the character on the key
 oh yeah, I forgot about that, it's a not a simple entry of each character 😅
 but there are existing similar layouts already so I guess those can be reference
 yeah like zhuyin and korean
 @Fuseteam [as with cangjie you rarely actually type the character on the key], you can but as you say there's tons of combination instead of one, like "一"(one)，just simply type "一" and get the result, or "碼“(code) has 5 combinations of 一口尸手火 … the main mechanic is to use those character's iconic characteristics to search a word
 @Fuseteam [yeah like zhuyin and korean], not like zhuyin(chewing), this is actually like japanese, to describe a tone pattern of a Chinese character
 the history of that is during 1910s people want to reform bulky Chinese character with a much simpler phonic words however it failed, and it revived in Taiwan due to ease of teaching pronunciation, just like pinyin's word Romanization
 [Edit] the history of that is during 1910s' enlightenment movement, people want to reform bulky Chinese character with a much simpler phonic words however it failed, and it revived in Taiwan due to ease of teaching pronunciation, just like pinyin's word Romanization
 [Edit] the history of that is during 1910s, people want to reform bulky Chinese character with a much simpler phonic words however it failed, and it revived in Taiwan(or Republic of China, during this era) due to ease of teaching pronunciation, just like pinyin's word Romanization
 seal script is so nice to look at though
 but cangji is the way of guessing of hand writing pattern, away from zhyyin
 @dohbee [seal script is so nice to look at though], yeah but it's too old even for me isn't really that easy to recognize some of it, lol
 even if i can learn to speak perfect mandarin, i will probably never actually learn to read written chinese
 let alone to write it
 @twilipi [you can but as you say there's tons of combination instead of one, like "一"(one) …], yeah i don't know the details very well yet thanks for the insight
 @twilipi [but cangji is the way of guessing of hand writing pattern, away from zhyyin], yeah we were talking about not directly inputting the character on the key but searching a database/file for the correct one
 @dohbee [even if i can learn to speak perfect mandarin, i will probably never actually le …], that's the truth of learning Chinese (character) as second language, even simplified, you still have to memorize some of the most important characters in order to write, even for me some of the word is still quite un recognizable due to its rare
[16:44] <ubptgbot> usage, mainly remember 1000-3000 words/phrases for daily usage is already a good user though, simply keep use it via experience
 @dohbee [even if i can learn to speak perfect mandarin, i will probably never actually le …], i actually doubt the feasibility to speak "perfect" mandarin but not able to read a single sentence in written form tbh
 @twilipi [that's the truth of learning Chinese (character) as second language, even simpli …], did you learn it as a second language?
 @Fuseteam [i actually doubt the feasibility to speak "perfect" mandarin but not able to rea …], well reading pinyin sure; but actual han characters, maybe a few, but whole novels and scientific papers and phone documentation no way
 for me, even I've learnt Mandrin, the experience difference still give me some challenges to type it easily
 @Fuseteam [did you learn it as a second language?], Chinese as first writting language, but Mandrin is second speaking language, Cantonese is my mother tounge
 at least i can usually audibly tell the difference between mandarin and cantonese
 @dohbee [well reading pinyin sure; but actual han characters, maybe a few, but whole nove …], pinyin can only get you so far really xD but yeah technical jargon and whole novels is way different level lol
 anyway, i think we've gone a bit off topic down the slope, from getting a new keyboard layout :)
 Ti bu tong xD
 @twilipi [Chinese as first writting language, but Mandrin is second speaking language, Can …], ah cool
 @dohbee [anyway, i think we've gone a bit off topic down the slope, from getting a new ke …], true that xD
 i kinda tried learning chinese through donghua in the past, there wasn't enough subbed donghua at the time actually to do that, so i kinda digged into it :p
 anyway that algorithm is the biggest challenge for a possible canjie layout in malliit
 @dohbee [anyway, i think we've gone a bit off topic down the slope, from getting a new ke …], sorry for talking too much offtopic stuff … anyway, I've posted a feature request in the github repo, hope someone will follow up, no rush
 thanks for that o7
 and tis fine even rodney went along down the slope this time lol
 we do have @UBportsOF too fwiw
 [Edit] we also have @UBportsOF fwiw
 @Fuseteam [anyway that algorithm is the biggest challenge for a possible canjie layout in m …], https://github.com/fcitx/fcitx-table-extra/blob/master/tables/cangjie5.txt … fcitx can also give you some handful database for it
 hmm interesting can you add that to the feature request?
 i'm growing more confident in the feasibility of adding it
 simply the main logic for getting a word is to target the most similar code pattern, like word inspiration for english or other languages, but in a specific code
 @Fuseteam [i'm growing more confident in the feasibility of adding it], OK
 yeah but that shouldn't be too different from how zhuyin or japanese reads a database from a certain set of characters if i'm not mistaken
 or how autocorrect works technically :P
 i'll add the fcitx link to the feature request for now
 oh, this is cool: https://twitter.com/ubuntu_unity/status/1285169202232320000?s=20
 @Fuseteam [or how autocorrect works technically :P], AFAIK, base on the fcitx's list, it's a bit hard to give tolerance due to characteristics of finding writting pattern, but in this documentation, there's a way to "autocorrect", is to add a wildcard key (like Z key, a reserved key for cangjie), using a wildcard between first and last ca
[17:16] <ubptgbot> n help inexperienced user to find a correct key
 @Fuseteam [or how autocorrect works technically :P], [Edit] AFAIK, base on the fcitx's list, it's a bit hard to give tolerance due to characteristics of finding writting pattern, but in this documentation, there's a way to "autocorrect", is to add a wildcard key (like Z key, a reserved key for cangjie), using a wildcard between first and
[17:18] <ubptgbot> last(if needed) can help inexperienced user to find a correct key
 and there's a code limit of 5, so it can limit the searching complexity
 https://cangjians.github.io/projects/ibus-cangjie/documentation/
 @mateosalta [oh, this is cool: https://twitter.com/ubuntu_unity/status/1285169202232320000?s= …], That's awesome!
 but for the phrase, there's couple of ways, one is to make custom dictionary once user makes an phrase(combination of characters) after typing … another way is to implement a seperate phrase dictionary, like this: … https://raw.githubusercontent.com/rime/rime-cantonese/master/jyut6ping3.phrase.dict.yaml … https://github.com/rime-aca/dicti
[17:33] <ubptgbot> onaries/blob/master/luna_pinyin.dict/luna_pinyin.extended.dict.yaml
 [Edit] but for the phrase, there's couple of ways, one is to make custom dictionary once user makes an phrase(combination of characters) after typing … another way is to implement a seperate phrase dictionary, like these: … https://raw.githubusercontent.com/rime/rime-cantonese/master/jyut6ping3.phrase.dict.yaml … https://github.com/rime-a
[17:33] <ubptgbot> ca/dictionaries/blob/master/luna_pinyin.dict/luna_pinyin.extended.dict.yaml
 perhaps you'd like to join https://t.me/UBports_devel to discuss possible implementation details with somoene working on the feature @twilipi
 @Fuseteam [yeah but that shouldn't be too different from how zhuyin or japanese reads a dat …], those txt are base on one of the advanced multi-platform open source IME built for Chinese user called RIME, and those are their(one of the) phrase dictionary, in order to implement phrase suggestion
 @dohbee [perhaps you'd like to join https://t.me/UBports_devel to discuss possible implem …], although I'm a IT student, but I have no such development history though
 (Sticker, 440x512) https://irc.ubports.com/TIrodexH.webp
 and please don't use pepe stickers in our community :)
 oh sorry
 @mateosalta [oh, this is cool: https://twitter.com/ubuntu_unity/status/1285169202232320000?s= …], Looking forward to seeing this go stable eventually and trying it out on one of my x86 tablets.
[20:32] <nontrivial> Hello folks. I'm looking to get Ubuntu Touch running on a desktop PC. I managed to find an  ubuntu-touch-mainline-generic-amd64.img file and it starts to boot up but hangs. I've participated in software projects before but I have to admit I don't know where to start on this one.
 it's an image for qemu
 ```qemu-system-x86_64 -hda ubuntu-touch-mainline-generic-amd64.img -vga virtio -display gtk,gl=on -m 2G -enable-kvm```
[20:36] <nontrivial> Is there a repository somewhere I can clone and tinker with?
[20:46] <nontrivial> Hmm, never used qemu before, I'm an application developer not a system developer. I'm running Unity on 18.04 as my daily driver (have been using Ubuntu for over decade) and it doesn't like the display option. Leaving that option of it still hangs in the same spot as when I try to run it in VirtualBox. Is there any documentation I can read on how the image is generated?
 didn't you start a thread on the forum about it?
[20:50] <nontrivial> Yup.
 i don't recall exactly how it gets built, but the CI job where you downloaded the image from will have links to it in the build log i'm sure
 and i'm pretty sure the image can be written to a USB to boot directly on hardware or such
 no you can't make it into an ISO
[20:54] <nontrivial> Believe me, I've been all over that page and there is no information on who or how it was made. But I just figured out what I was doing wrong trying to get it to mount with a loopback, so I guess I'll mess around with the contents and see what I can find. But if I don't know where the source is I can't contribute anything I figure out back to the project.
 there isn't a single source repo for ubuntu touch
 Is there something like a feature list, which stuff is working on which devices like there is for sailfishos or postmarketOS?
 no, we don't have a massive table like that
[21:33] <ubptgbot> <    > @mateosalta [oh, this is cool: https://twitter.com/ubuntu_unity/status/1285169202232320000?s= …], nice !
 @nontrivial [Hello folks. I'm looking to get Ubuntu Touch running on a desktop PC. I managed …], see the twitter post i just linked
 With anbox being a bit spotty what about virtualizing Android on a bit more powerful processor like the rockpro64 that could stay home running the random Android apps like WhatsApp then through VPN run WhatsApp web? Would let me run Ubuntu touch daily driver...?
 anbox doesn't virtualize android
 and well with ARM you can just run straight android on a device if your goal is to keep it running WhatsApp for you to use whatsapp web
 Sorry meant virtualize Android via qemu. Don't want to waste a whole rockpro64 to Android for WhatsApp. So have it running qemu kvm for Android plus other services
 Since it wouldn't be efficient to run qemu or even anbox directly on the phone
 Trying to be creative to get around a few crutches
 why wouldn't it be efficient to run anbox on the phone, assuming it became supported to do so?
 granted, you won't get the full app experience from the android app either way
 I had understood it would be a big battery drain. Basically looking for a "now" stopgap until anbox more possible.
 I know core devs have other priorities so trying to work with the current state of things. Dont need WhatsApp calls just pick up the messages and give an occasional reply and don't want to double carry :-)
 so you already have a phone running whatsapp just to use whatsweb?
 No drop the Android phone RIP. Set up Android virtualization on a mini server not on battery but on mains to run WhatsApp and other Android only services that are linked to the new Ubuntu only phone via VPN. Simple right? :-)
 you don't need to VPN back into the same network where the whatsapp android apps is running, no
 and why not just run it in an android-x86 VM on a PC?
 But need to be on the same lan when not at home to use WhatsApp web.
 no
 ?? WhatsApp web is saying keep device active assumed talked over lan maybe not that helps.
 Yeah could run Android x86 but I drank the pine64 Kool aid for home server :-)
 no. you just have to keep the whatsapp android app running
 If don't need VPN that makes it easier
 Could keep the server running 24/7 this way and still be connected when not home? Cool!
 yes
 until you get logged out or whatever and have to scan the QR code again with the android app
 So Android on aarch64 host a bit more questionable? Or not possible?
 I'll be testing this I almost have WhatsApp anbox running on the server....
 well anbox can run, i don't know if there's any VM images made for running android in a VM on ARM though
 So could go that way too possibly
 Yeah that is where is am stuck do sing Android qemu image...
 Ok TKS I'll stop filling the list. Point is I think there are many unable to full-time Ubuntu touch due to a few Android dependencies
 So if it were known may help others make the jump
 Do you know if anbox more possible on armhf vs aarch64?
 Aarch64 it says not supported even though I almost have it running :-)
 i don't think snaps exist for ARM yet, and maybe no "official" anbox image. alpine has anbox and android image for ARM though if you're using that
 or otherwise go ask for help in the anbox group i guess
 Anbox telegram group or forum?


[01:12] <leftyfb> ^
[01:28] <tripelb> How do I find my IP address on my ethernet connected 20.04 machine?   I have followed all kinds of instructions  from Google fails or is unbelievably complicated so I won't bother trying it cuz I know it's a simple thing.
[01:28] <sarnold> ip a
[01:29] <tripelb> Thanks sarnold.
[01:29] <sarnold> there's also hostname -I -- I don't know how it works, but it is much more readable and concise :)
[01:30] <tripelb> I get a lot of output but I don't know what it means in which numbers to pick out of the many numbers that I get
[01:30] <tripelb> I'm still on the same thing of trying to find out what happens just before my computer freezes
[01:31] <tripelb> You were helping me with that in the past. (I used Firefox and it held okay for a week. But then when I went to look after it froze I had rebooted my phone and lost the terminal response. Terminal on my phone)
[01:32] <tripelb>  There's no tab keys or up arrow keys on my phone so I don't know how to ask terminal what my previous commands were
[01:32] <sarnold> 'history' may do it
[01:32] <sarnold> history | more    or history | less are also good
[01:34] <tripelb> Ah ha sarnold i am going to install "hackers keyboard"
[01:34] <tripelb> Ok will try
[01:35] <tripelb>  when my phone was rebooted The history didn't persist
[01:35] <sarnold> bummer
[01:35] <sarnold> you can configure bash to write history more frequently, but perhaps it comes configured that way to avoid writing to the flash too much
[01:36] <tripelb> Could this work 127.0.0 1/8
[01:37] <tripelb> thinkofher7e rest are all inet6
[01:37] <tripelb> Gotta catch a bus.. away for a bit.
[01:40] <sarnold> tripelb: <IP_ADDRESS>/8 is the localhost 'loopback' address range; every linux system will have those, and they all mean the local system
[01:40] <sarnold> tripelb2: if you're trying to cross a network, those won't work :)
[01:48] <Hash> Hi
[01:48] <Hash> How do you convert .fsb audio file to something else? What in ubuntu reads fsb audio file?
[01:52] <leftyfb> Hash: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/focal/man1/gh_fsb_decrypt.1.html
[01:52] <Hash> https://github.com/gdawg/fsbext ok I compiled this. I can get a wav out now.
[02:02] <greg> How can I fix: clang : Depends: clang-10 (>= 10~) but it is not going to be installed. I'm on ubuntu focal and I have run apt-get update
[02:03] <leftyfb> greg: apt-cache policy clang | nc termbin.com 9999
[02:04] <greg> leftyfb, im running this on travis-ci so will take sec
[02:06] <sarnold> leftyfb: is that apt-cache policy clang or apt-cache policy clang-10 ?
[02:07] <greg> leftyfb, https://termbin.com/8k8j
[02:07] <leftyfb> oh right, that would make more sense
[02:07] <leftyfb> greg: apt-cache policy clang-10 | nc termbin.com 9999
[02:09] <greg> ok gimme minute again
[02:10] <greg> leftyfb, https://termbin.com/1m3q
[02:17] <tomreyn> greg: this looks like it should have worked. maybe these will explain why it didn't:
[02:17] <tomreyn> greg: grep -hEv '^([ ]*#.*)?$' /etc/apt/sources.list{,.d/*.list} | nc termbin.com 9999; apt-cache policy | nc termbin.com 9999 ; cat /etc/apt/preferences{,.d/*} | nc termbin.com 9999
[02:21] <greg> tomreyn, https://termbin.com/bnyz https://termbin.com/j4n7 cat: /etc/apt/preferences: No such file or directory
[02:21] <greg> cat: '/etc/apt/preferences.d/*': No such file or directory
[02:22] <sarnold> it's a *guess* but that bionic mongo repo stands out to me
[02:23] <sarnold> mixing and matching releases tends to lead to funny things like this
[02:23] <greg> i don't add any repos this is travis-ci's image
[02:24] <greg> if theres some command to default the apt file i can run that
[02:25] <sarnold> oh weird, I'm also just now noticing that POWER repo is ... amd64. hah.
[02:26] <sarnold> greg: I really only know how to solve these things interactively -- apt install clang-10 and see what errors apt throws back; usually apt install clang-10 <something reported from the previous command> ... iterate that process until you get to the *cause* of the problem
[02:27] <greg> sarnold, well this is in a container that runs a script fresh. I can't really interact with it on the fly
[02:28] <greg> I can put whatever in the script though
[02:28] <sarnold> greg: yeah.. that's why I was really hoping leftyfb or tomreyn would have magic insights :) hehe
[02:30] <tomreyn> not really, no. there are some Debug:: options you can pass to apt, which can maybe help
[02:30] <tomreyn> see apt.conf(5)
[02:30] <tomreyn> apt-config dump    may also help
[02:30] <tomreyn> in the past, travis-ci's containers had been modified a lot, i assume this may still be so.
[02:31] <tomreyn> but things seems to have changed quite a bit since i last read the past equivalent to https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/reference/overview/
[02:34] <tripelb> Sarnold  hostname -I   .. will try this when I get home again.
[02:34] <sarnold> tripelb: I think you'll prefer it :)
[02:35] <greg> tomreyn, is the defult apt.conf somewhere i can just overwrite it with?
[02:35] <tomreyn> greg: i wouldn't recommend this. rather get support from travis for this system
[02:41] <tomreyn> greg: maybe give this a try:   apt-get -y -o Debug::pkgProblemResolver=yes install clang &> /tmp/aptlog; cat /tmp/aptlog | nc termbin.com 9999
[02:42] <sarnold> (probably clang-10)
[02:44] <tomreyn> the original message was "clang : Depends: clang-10 (>= 10~) but it is not going to be installed.", which was probably (we weren't told) the result of running "apt install clang".
[02:44] <greg> hrmmn i didnt get a link from that cmd
[02:45] <tomreyn> this means the resolver did consider installing clang-10, but chose not to. the above command should tell us why it chose not to install it.
[02:45] <tomreyn> greg: you'll need sudo for apt-get
[02:46] <greg> oh ok
[02:48] <arther181> Hello everyone! Anyone used network in initramfs? then please share any doc
[02:50] <greg> tomreyn, im still not seeing anything from that cmd
[02:52] <tomreyn> greg: hmm, maybe your /tmp is not writable. the problem there is that you will likely need to write the output to a file first, because apt-get will likely run longer than the one or two seconds the termbin.com server is happy to wait for input.
[02:52] <tomreyn> you can try pastebinit instead
[02:52] <greg> I know I can write to /tmp
[02:53] <tomreyn> sudo apt-get -y -o Debug::pkgProblemResolver=yes install clang 2>&1 | pastebinit
[02:53] <tomreyn> but pastebinit may not be installed, yet
[02:54] <tomreyn> another option:   sudo apt-get -y -o Debug::pkgProblemResolver=yes install clang 2>&1 | curl -F 'f:1=<-' ix.io
[02:58] <greg> tomreyn, http://ix.io/3lsk
[03:01] <tomreyn> does    apt-mark showhold     output anything? wehat about    apt list --installed | grep ',local\]$'
[03:01] <tomreyn> i think the above output describes whatthe problem is, but i'm too tired to interpret it properly
[03:02] <greg> i dont need sudo?
[03:02] <tomreyn> not for these
[03:05] <tomreyn> the output looks to me like you have broken packages already before starting to install.    sudo apt-get -f -y -o Debug::pkgProblemResolver=yes install    may fix those, or discuss what the problem is.
[03:05] <greg> tomreyn, https://travis-ci.org/github/enigma-dev/enigma-dev/jobs/769100424
[03:12] <tomreyn> greg: what do i see there exactly?
[03:12] <greg> tomreyn, well i run your cmd after update
[03:12] <greg> soo w/e u looking for idk
[03:13] <tomreyn> apparently lines 271 to 291 are output of    apt list --installed | grep ',local\]$'
[03:13] <greg> ~line 270
[03:14] <tomreyn> apparently, this libc6 package version doesn't exist on mirror at this time.
[03:14] <tomreyn> 2.31-0ubuntu9.3 is in -proposed
[03:14] <greg> it existed last week
[03:16] <tomreyn> that's the same problem jochensp reported here and later in #ubuntu-devel yesterday
[03:16] <greg> is there a bug report?
[03:17] <tomreyn> bug 1912652
[03:18] <arther181> I am trying to configure network in initramfs. I got some error. logs ----> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/z4J4hSdnyV/
[03:19] <greg> tomreyn, guess i can just wait then
[03:20] <tomreyn> greg: you could also try enabling -proposed with low priority
[03:22] <greg> not sure what that means
[03:22] <greg> but sounds like itll cause ma another issue in 2weeks :P
[03:27] <tomreyn> greg: untested, but i guess it can work:    echo -e "Package: *\nPin: release a=*-proposed\nPin-Priority: 400" | sudo tee /etc/apt/preferences.d/proposed >/dev/null; sudo add-apt-repository -y -u 'deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal-proposed main universe multiverse';
[03:28] <tomreyn> more info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/EnableProposed
[03:30] <tomreyn> i'm assuming you'll start each build with a "fresh" build VM, so activating focal-proposed now should not be something you'll actually need to revert on the system later (i.e. you'd just need to remove the above oneliner off your travis-ci.yml)
[03:34] <greg> tomreyn, well that line didnt seem to help
[03:36] <tomreyn> maybe this would in combo with the above line    sudo apt install -t focal-proposed clang-10
[03:36] <tomreyn> but this bug should never have crept into the latest LTS release in the first place. :-(
[03:36] <greg> bugs happen
[03:37] <greg> lot of moving parts
[03:37] <greg> tomreyn, sudo apt-get -y install clang lldb lld libc++abi-dev libc++-dev do i replace thar?
[03:37] <greg> or just put yours above
[03:38] <tomreyn> so that's the command you were running before you asked for help here?
[03:38] <greg> yes
[03:38] <tomreyn> ah, good that you're actually telling us
[03:38] <tomreyn> maybe try making is less complex for starts, this can help with debugging
[03:39] <tomreyn> remove everything but clang
[03:40] <tomreyn> then install the others one by one, and see which one actually causes the problems
[03:40] <tomreyn> if clang still won't install, add     -t focal-proposed
[03:41] <tomreyn> i should catch some sleep, good luck!
[03:41] <greg> ya it still failed
[03:41] <greg> ill try -t
[03:46] <greg> tomreyn, that seemed to do it it. thanks for all the help
[03:46] <greg> gnight
[06:48] <gnask> Good morning
[06:48] <matsaman> mornin'
[07:09] <TaZeR> mornin cheetos
[07:54] <[VMGuy23]> Mornong
[07:55] <[VMGuy23]> *morning
[07:57] <gnask> Hi, can someone guide me in the right direction to resolve this error?
[07:57] <gnask> Enter password:
[07:57] <gnask> ERROR 2013 (HY000): Lost connection to MySQL server at 'reading initial communication packet', system error: 104
[07:58] <gnask> When trying to " sudo mysql -u mysql -p "
[08:14] <[VMGuy23]> It looks like the server is not running or is unreachable
[08:14] <[VMGuy23]> Or you haven't selected a server
[10:11] <baconology> i am sitting at an ubuntu 20 server login screen tty1 being prompted for login, i type my username, hit enter, it immediately re-prompts for login.   I am able to SSH in no problem, but not at the terminal.  This is running in vmware workstation.  I did notice a .list file was corrupted earlier during package updates.  Suspect corruption.  fsck comes back OK.  Any thoughts?  Even tried different
[10:11] <baconology> keyboard.
[10:13] <TJ-> baconology: check "journalctl -n 100 -u systemd-logind" (from ssh of course) for clues. Also look at the end of "/var/log/auth.log"
[10:16] <baconology> starting login service, new seat seat0, watching system buttons, new session 1 of user baconology
[10:16] <baconology> i assume that's the SSH
[10:16] <baconology> i dont even get prompted for password at the terminal, immediate reprompt for login, doesn't appear as if there are entries generated in journal
[10:16] <baconology> thanks for the tip though
[10:17] <Foxfir3_> sudoers and sshd. should I use the .d folder to preserve setting during updates?
[10:17] <Foxfir3_> ubuntu 20.04 server
[10:20] <baconology> seeing entries in multipathd (sda: add missing path, failed to get udev uid, failed to get sysfs uid, failed to get sgio uid (invalid argument)
[10:21] <baconology> (in journal)
[10:21] <TJ-> baconology: hmmm, I wonder if you've made changes to the PAM config (/etc/pam.d/)
[10:21] <baconology> oh my, login: segfault at 8 ip ________ error 4 in ld-2.31.so
[10:21] <TJ-> baconology: those may be something else but will also need resolving or ignoring, but I don't think they're related to a login attempt
[10:22] <TJ-> baconology: AHA!
[10:22] <baconology> the poor kernel
[10:22] <baconology> im leaning towards corruption of my vm filesystem given the earlier .list file corruption today
[10:23] <baconology> funny that i can login via ssh
[10:24] <[VMGuy23]> I have a Wayland issue: On 21.04, the Ubuntu Dock takes a while to update whats on there or not. It's on time when something opens or closes but takes about 30 seconds to show if an opened app is not pinned, and the icon stays for 30 seconds after closing. The dot indicators are on time.
[10:48] <TJ-> baconology: because sshd does the login, not logind
[10:54] <baconology> got it
[10:54] <baconology> gonna wipe and reinstall
[10:55] <baconology> i blame vmware or windows updates random reboots
[11:02] <shimbles> i am running gnome and accessing it over VNC. how come I can't create desktop shortcuts?
[11:02] <shimbles> i have an 'Activities' button on the upper left that allows me to open applictions; why can't i put those on my desktop
[11:07] <shimbles> i am using tightvnc with gnome, how can I create desktop shortcuts?
[11:13] <tmm88> how can i set my system to automatically disconnect from the internet within the context of innactivity
[11:13] <tmm88> ?
[11:14] <TJ-> shimbles: I haven't used Gnome in over a decade, but as I understand it, there was a deliberate decision to remove the ability to have launchers on the 'desktop' (which used to be provided by the file-manager but the code was brittle apparently)
[11:14] <TJ-> tmm88: how does it connect to the Internet? via a local WiFi service, or directly via a cellular modem?
[11:19] <shimbles> TJ- i was able to fix it with gnome-tweaks
[11:20] <shimbles> im not sure why gnome went full retard
[11:23] <shimbles> as i understood it, the point of gnome was to offer a finer (less advanced) selection of options; not to remove options that you definitely need
[11:26] <tmm88> TJ-: via wifi
[11:28] <TJ-> shimbles: removing 'stuff' has been the general theme of Gnome for a long time, according to its disgruntled users at least
[11:29] <TJ-> tmm88: so do you want to retain the Wifi connection to other local devices but prevent routing out to the Internet, or simply disconnect wifi?
[11:40] <mrkubax10> Ubuntu Server 16.04 updated to Ubuntu Server 18.04 without issues for first time :)
[11:42] <lotuspsychje> !yay | mrkubax10
[11:43] <lotuspsychje> mrkubax10: checkout the !18.04 releasenotes anyway for known transitions on -server
[12:13] <CyL> So, I'm installing Lubuntu on this laptop which doesn't have an ether interface, and the wifi drivers doesn't get automatically recognized during install. I need to offline install them, I tried a lot of different articles on the internet.
[12:13] <CyL> In the end most of the articles seem to be very outdated, and I run into dependency problems. The closest I got was having fwcutter trying to connect to an online service, probably to download some blobs, but since I do not have another connection, this is a no go.
[12:15] <baconology> usb ethernet card?
[12:16] <CyL> baconology: I don't have any, and buying one is not a reasonable option in the short term.
[12:19] <tomreyn> CyL: do you have a "smart hpone"?
[12:19] <tomreyn> *phone
[12:20] <CyL> tomreyn: Yes I do, I mean, I guess an Android phone count as that
[12:20] <tomreyn> right, connect it to the computer using a usb cable
[12:20] <tomreyn> then enable tethering on the android device.
[12:21] <CyL> Hmmm, are all the default drivers for tethering installed on a fresh install?
[12:21] <tomreyn> yes
[12:21] <CyL> I'm reinstalling Lubuntu right now, I messed up so much with it yesterday that I'm probably in a very inconsistent state with apt
[12:23] <CyL> I appreciate a lot you advice, but still it's hard to grasp Ubuntu developer's wouldn't have provided a more reasonable solution to this kind of chicken and egg problem.
[12:28] <tomreyn> CyL: there's apt-offline also. but i think the solution i provided is the most simple one, other than acquiring hardware which is well supported out of the box.
[12:29] <CyL> tomreyn: I did try apt-offline, but it has depency problems, and sorting that out on a fresh install is hard. Also, I'm not sure why, but many, many packages failed to download yesterday
[12:29] <tomreyn> CyL: running    lspci -nn | grep Network   should return some [0123:4567] like output to the end of the lines. this identifies your network device chipsets, and should help identifying the needed driver.
[12:29] <CyL> TBH it's because of apt-offline I'm a little scared of my current apt state
[12:30] <tomreyn> personally, i'd always prefer the smartphone / tab / other computer / usb-ethernet/wireless dongle approach
[12:33] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[12:33] <summonner> oh no not BluesKaj
[12:33] <CyL> tomreyn: yeah, it is simpler and more effective where available
[12:33] <summonner> ;)
[12:34] <BluesKaj> greetings summonner :-)
[12:36] <summonner> CyL, have you looked into the "proprietary drivers" window? is the hardware listed there?
[12:36] <CyL> summonner: No I have not, I was used to Ubuntu prompting me to install proprietary drivers
[12:37] <kristian_on_linu> cheers
[12:39] <CyL> summonner: can I have Lubuntu live session load proprietary drivers before proceeding with installations? This would be a life saver
[12:40] <shailangsa> can anybody recommend a good laptop to run ubuntu on?
[12:41] <summonner> CyL, that would be the same as doing it on a standard installation, the diff b/n live and install is you have it on a disk and not an unpacked ram drive and "mounted iso" (not 100% correct)
[12:42] <jason234> hello
[12:43] <jason234> ubuntu starts but fails to start, [ok] reached target Timers. it is frozen. what can it be? it is ubuntu groovy
[12:43] <tomreyn> shailangsa: one with a cpu, ram and a storage device. for more concrete recomendations, please /join #ubuntu-discuss and provide more details.
[12:43] <tomreyn> jason234: did it work previously?
[12:44] <jason234> never
[12:44] <tomreyn> jason234: so this is a fresh 20.10 installation?
[12:45] <summonner> CyL, install the driver, then follow the instructions here to load it   https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Loadable_Modules
[12:46] <summonner> CyL, that way you can test it, ... but I thought you already had it working? (from reading the scrollback?) is the card supported?
[12:54] <Forza> Is there a way to prevent systemd from unmounting a filesystem before stopping a service?
[12:59] <summonner> Forza, if you look into the systemd configs, you can see the answers. you're looking for things similar to "start before" "stop after"
[14:05] <NoCode> Why doesn't the hexchat and notification plugin go into the notifications area? Instead it is outside of the theme's shaded area where it would look better.
[14:07] <lotuspsychje> NoCode: did you try hexchat-indicator
[14:09] <NoCode> Pretty sure that's what I use.
[14:11] <lotuspsychje> NoCode: i didnt try myself yet, but you could try installing the indicator, and disable gnomes hexchat notify, then set highlights in hexchat on your nick, see what it does
[14:33] <DJAnonimo> hello, which Network manager version has ubuntu 16.04?
[14:34] <EriC^^> !info network-manager focal
[14:34] <EriC^^> DJAnonimo: ^
[14:34] <lotuspsychje> !info network-manager xenial
[14:35] <EriC^^> DJAnonimo: my bad it's actually the one right above ^ , thanks lotuspsychje
[14:35] <DJAnonimo> wow. nice bot. thank you
[15:13] <ferz> Hi
[15:13] <floogy> Hi, I giot issues on upgrading bionic to focal.
[15:13] <floogy> udevd doesn't upgrade and no longer works.
[15:14] <ferz> How can I disable colors in terminal?  I'm using Mate.  export TERM=xterm-mono doesn't work.
[15:14] <ferz> I hate colors in my shells
[15:14] <floogy> systemd-udevd.service: Cannot add dependency job, ignoring: Unit systemd-udevd.service is not loaded properly: Exec format error
[15:14] <floogy> /lib/systemd/system/systemd-udevd.service:26: Executable path is not absolute: udevadm control --reload --timeout 0
[15:17] <floogy> When I change ExecStart=udevadm to ExecStart=/bin/udevadm then it changes back instantly to ExecStart=udevadm in
[15:17] <floogy>  /lib/systemd/system/systemd-udevd.service:26
[15:17] <floogy> Where should I fix this? Unfortunately I'm not very familiar with systemd.
[15:37] <ioria> floogy, the exec line for that unit file is  : ExecStart=/lib/systemd/systemd-udevd
[15:50] <TJ-> floogy: firstly, how are you making the change? using "systemctl edit systemd-udevd.service" ?
[15:52] <naftilos76> Hi, has anybody heard of any tool that can change the pwm frequency of the lcd's backlight in linux?
[15:52] <TJ-> edits to systemd unit files using systemctl create override files at /etc/systemd/system/<unit-name>.d/override.conf
[16:00] <ioria> naftilos76, intel ?
[16:01] <naftilos76> ioria: ryzen 5 2400
[16:01] <ioria> ah
[16:22] <somethingspicey> ubuntu rocks! <3
[16:27] <Pseudo-Coffee> AAAAAAAABBBBBBBCCCCCDDDDDDDD
[16:30] <catalin> Hello! I have this laptop: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-IdeaPad-Creator-15-6-Laptop/dp/B08BJ8TFPQ (No advertising intended, just showing the full specifications list) and I cannot make the brightness control to work. I am using Ubuntu 20.04.
[16:30] <catalin> Can anyone help me please?
[16:41] <VvdBergh> @catalin I guess you already tried the Fn key in combination with F8/ F9 to change the brightness?
[16:43] <tomreyn> you did not succeed at responding with the 3 minutes catalin persisted
[16:43] <tomreyn> *within
[16:45] <VvdBergh> @tomreyn we are all volunteers and users here, not a professional helpdesk as far as I know. If he pays me I will respond sooner
[16:46] <Maik> pointless to respond when they left VvdBergh
[16:46] <tomreyn> VvdBergh: yes, sorry, i didn't mean to blame you, just to point out that catalin's gone.
[16:49] <VvdBergh> I know. I am actually surprised people actually think they can get an answer here within 1 minute after asking a question
[16:50] <VvdBergh> I leave irc open in the background so I can look back and see if there was an answer or I look back in the logs as this channel is logged
[17:07] <jfcaron> Noob mistake: I have auto-login when I boot up my computer, but I forgot the actual password, so I can't change it or do anything with sudo.  What are my options for changing/retrieving the password?  How does the autologin do it?
[17:14] <VvdBergh> @jfcaron try this https://itsfoss.com/how-to-hack-ubuntu-password/
[17:19] <[VMGuy23]> Hello, why does the dock take a long time to update which icons are visible? The open indicator is fine, it's just that closed apps' icons stay for 30 seconds and icons take 30 seconds to appear.
[17:19] <[VMGuy23]> Only on Wayland™
[17:20] <Maik> you gotta love wayland
[17:21] <jfcaron> Loving Wayland is Mandatory
[17:21] <[VMGuy23]> 21.04
[17:22] <jfcaron> THanks VvdBergh, I ended up being able to guess the password after all.
[17:22] <jfcaron> Just took about 10 tries
[17:23] <lotuspsychje> [VMGuy23]: what kind of specs do you encounter those slow animations?
[17:23] <VvdBergh> First thing to do now is disable autologin @jfcaron I have it off for just this reason (besides the fact I work in an office where my co workers tend to do pranks with each others computers)
[17:24] <[VMGuy23]> its not slow animations, its the dock icons taking time to appear/disappear
[17:26] <lotuspsychje> [VMGuy23]: ok, and your specs?
[17:28] <[VMGuy23]> AMD Ryzen 3 3200U with Radeon Vega Mobile GFX
[17:28] <[VMGuy23]> AMD® Radeon(tm) vega 3 graphics
[17:29] <[VMGuy23]> Copied from About menu in settings
[17:29] <lotuspsychje> [VMGuy23]: lets have a look inside your dmesg please? maybe volunteers find something useful
[17:29] <floogy> ioria, TJ, thank you a lot! I think this will be helpfull, because I noticed those ... .d folders under /lib/systemd/system/ e.g. like<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and already wondering, if that would also override those wrong entries!
[17:30] <[VMGuy23]> lotuspsychje: All of it? I can send easily
[17:30] <floogy> ~$ for service in {systemd-udevd.service,systemd-hwdb-update.service,systemd-udev-trigger.service,systemd-udev-settle.service}; do cat -n /lib/systemd/system/"$service" | egrep '26|25|22|27' | egrep -i 'exec' ; done
[17:30] <floogy>     25  ExecStart=/lib/systemd/systemd-udevd
[17:30] <floogy>     26  ExecReload=udevadm control --reload --timeout 0
[17:30] <floogy>     25  ExecStart=systemd-hwdb update
[17:30] <floogy>     22  ExecStart=udevadm trigger --type=subsystems --action=add
[17:30] <floogy>     27  ExecStart=udevadm settle
[17:31] <[VMGuy23]> lotuspsychje: https://termbin.com/i29q
[17:32] <lotuspsychje> [VMGuy23]: your secureboot is enabled, did you try comparing yet with secureboot off?
[17:32] <floogy> So I haveto edit those 4 entries by `systemctl edit <service>` instead of using vi on the physical file, to create those overrides under the .d folders.
[17:33] <[VMGuy23]> I don't think it's secure boot related, and I remember secure boot being off...
[17:33] <[VMGuy23]> But I'll go check now
[17:33] <[VMGuy23]> Just restarting
[17:33] <tomreyn> !paste | floogy
[17:34] <floogy> Ok, I thought limiting on six lines might be sufficiant, sorry
[17:35] <[VMGuy23]> wait how did secure boot disabling fix the issue
[17:35] <[VMGuy23]> it seemed unrelated
[17:36] <[VMGuy23]> nevermind it didnt fix the issue
[17:36] <lotuspsychje> [VMGuy23]: can we see a sudo lshw -C video plz
[17:37] <[VMGuy23]> Or at least, it seems to have slightly reduced the issue
[17:38] <floogy> TJ-, ioria, after ExecStart appears  the line ExecReload=udevadm control --reload --timeout 0
[17:38] <[VMGuy23]> https://termbin.com/2c5ft
[17:38] <Acts10-13> hey I was on kubuntu and was asking to upgrade. Mid upgrade before installation was happening, someone told me to stop because of a major bug. So I did, and now my sources are now all stuck on hirsute.
[17:39] <Acts10-13> How do I make my sources go back to groovy?
[17:39] <[VMGuy23]> Acts10-13: Check your EFI version. If it's 2.0 or higher then you should be fine installing Hirsute.
[17:40] <ioria> Acts10-13, check your /etc/apt/ directory; you should have a sources.list.save or something in there
[17:40] <Acts10-13> [VMGuy23]: okay
[17:40] <lotuspsychje> [VMGuy23]: that looks good, driver loaded
[17:40] <[VMGuy23]> The bug is for EFI 1.20 or something
[17:40] <TJ-> floogy: well --reload makes sense
[17:40] <[VMGuy23]> lotuspsychje: yeah I reinstalled 21.04 just to get those
[17:41] <lotuspsychje> [VMGuy23]: did you test other ubuntu releases on wayland to compare that?
[17:41] <[VMGuy23]> Did not happen with 20.10 on Wayland iirc
[17:43] <lotuspsychje> [VMGuy23]: so with secureboot off, how many secs do they appear/dissapear now?
[17:44] <[VMGuy23]> After a few minutes, instantly
[17:45] <lotuspsychje> [VMGuy23]: so you are saying, wayland is kinda stuttering until desktop has loaded and then starts working better?
[17:46] <[VMGuy23]> No, perfectly smooth, they just don't appear for a bit. They then appear/disappear normally after that time has passed
[17:48] <lotuspsychje> [VMGuy23]: check my bug #1922437
[17:49] <floogy> TJ, I created by edit --force a override.conf file, but it throws still the same error
[17:49] <lotuspsychje> im getting also a waiting time before able to work properly
[17:49] <[VMGuy23]> lotuspsychje
[17:49] <[VMGuy23]> mine different
[17:51] <lotuspsychje> [VMGuy23]: you got a spinner or ssd?
[17:51] <floogy> TJ-, ~$ cat /etc/systemd/system/systemd-udevd.service.d/override.conf
[17:51] <floogy> ExecReload=/bin/udevadm  control --reload --timeout 0
[17:51] <[VMGuy23]> SSD
[17:51] <[VMGuy23]> 512GB NVMe SSD with 16GB dual-bank ram
[17:52] <[VMGuy23]> i think
[17:52] <[VMGuy23]> i mean, 2 8gb sticks
[17:52] <TJ-> floogy: what's the error reported?
[17:53] <floogy> TJ-, the same as before. /lib/systemd/system/systemd-udevd.service:26: Executable path is not absolute: udevadm control --reload --timeout 0
[17:53] <floogy> So the override is not in action
[17:53] <TJ-> floogy: which is correct! you've not given a path to udevadm. should be /usr/bin/udevadm
[17:54] <floogy> ~$ which udevadm
[17:54] <floogy> /bin/udevadm
[17:54] <lotuspsychje> [VMGuy23]: ok well, maybe you should file a new bug for this
[17:54] <TJ-> floogy: units do not use a shell so there is no PATH search, you need to specify the full path to an executable always
[17:54] <TJ-> floogy: /bin/ is a symbolic link to /usr/bin/, see "ls -ld /bin"
[17:55] <floogy> TJ-, here ist a directory
[17:55] <floogy> ot's
[17:55] <lotuspsychje> [VMGuy23]: or check the existing ones first; https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock/+bugs?orderby=importance&start=0
[17:56] <floogy> ~$ ls -ld /bin
[17:56] <floogy> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 12288 Mai  1 19:46 /bin
[17:56] <TJ-> floogy: ahh, you said earlier this is a 16.04 > 18.04 upgrade
[17:56] <TJ-> floogy: in new installs /bin/ became a symlink to /usr/bin/
[17:56] <floogy> No, 18.04 to 20.04, butt began with hoary
[17:57] <floogy> ;)
[17:57] <TJ-> floogy: ha! I'm on 20.04 but had forgotten its codename
[17:57] <floogy> focal
 TJ-, ~$ cat /etc/systemd/system/systemd-udevd.service.d/override.conf
 ExecReload=/bin/udevadm  control --reload --timeout 0
[17:57] <TJ-> floogy: yes
[17:58] <floogy> But it's not active. Ithrows still the former error
[17:58] <TJ-> floogy: did you do "systemctl daemon-reload" ?
[17:58] <floogy> No, thank you. As I said I don't have any clue on systemd
[17:58] <TJ-> floogy: that ought not to be needed when you use "systemctl edit ..." but maybe
[18:00] <[VMGuy23]> lotuspsychje: found this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock/+bug/1890891
[18:01] <floogy> TJ-, unfortunately that doesn't work.
[18:01] <TJ-> floogy: mmm, can you show us "pastebinit <( systemctl cat systemd-udevd.service )"
[18:02] <floogy> still the same error. /etc/systemd/system/systemd-udevd.service.d/override.conf still not noticed by systemd
[18:03] <floogy> TJ-, it's empty
[18:03] <floogy> No files found for systemd-udevd.service
[18:04] <floogy> TJ-, -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 55 Mai  1 19:50 /etc/systemd/system/systemd-udevd.service.d/override.conf: ExecReload=/bin/udevadm  control --reload --timeout 0
[18:05] <TJ-> floogy: if there were no files found that suggests the main .service file is missing or broken completely
[18:05] <floogy> Or does it need udev to read it in?
[18:05] <floogy> Okay, yes it's disappeared
[18:06] <TJ-> floogy: what does this report? "pastebinit <( find /lib/systemd/system/ /etc/systemd/system /run/systemd/system -name 'systemd-udev*' -ls ")
[18:06] <TJ-> grrr typo
[18:06] <TJ-> floogy: what does this report? "pastebinit <( find /lib/systemd/system/ /etc/systemd/system /run/systemd/system -name 'systemd-udev*' -ls )  "
[18:07] <floogy> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/dSTNJmwBQt/
[18:07] <floogy> Your command: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Wrx3MtMqwR/
[18:09] <floogy> Ouch. it was /etc instead of /lib
[18:10] <TJ-> floogy: thanks. one more: " pastebinit <( dpkg --print-architecture; which -a udevadm; file $(which udevadm) ) "
[18:10] <TJ-> floogy: overrides are ALWAYS in /etc/systemd/....
[18:10] <floogy> okay
[18:10] <floogy> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/n3PKy7DNvZ/
[18:10] <TJ-> floogy: files in /lib/systemd/system/ are installed by the packages
[18:11] <TJ-> floogy: let's see what is being reported: " pastebinit <( journalctl -n 50 -u systemd-udevd.service  ) "
[18:12] <floogy> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/ndnSGmbQ8r/
[18:14] <floogy> ~$ ls -l /etc/systemd/system/systemd-udevd.servic*  GIVES -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 55 Mai  1 19:50 override.conf
[18:15] <TJ-> floogy: I think "Cannot add dependency job, ignoring: Unit systemd-udevd.service is not loaded properly: Exec format error" may relate to a stray control code in the .service file, not something to do with the ExecXXXX= lines
[18:15] <floogy> Maybe, uit's the ol18.04 running kernel?
[18:16] <floogy> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/dSTNJmwBQt/
[18:16] <TJ-> floogy: I have to go to dinner now, but I wonder what program you used (before systemctl edit) to alter those files? I think it's inserted an unexpected, possibly invisible, control character
[18:16] <floogy> vi
[18:17] <floogy> But it has reverted all changes instantly
[18:17] <TJ-> floogy: hmmm
[18:17] <floogy> okay have a nice dinner. Thank you
[18:17] <TJ-> let me look at the systemd source-code, see why it reports that error
[18:18] <floogy> The last Paste is the content
[18:21] <floogy> TJ-,  Maybe this is important: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/M3GfqwdrsW/
[18:23] <TJ-> floogy: no, that is expected and normal
[18:23] <TJ-> floogy: can you manually start the service ?
[18:27] <TJ-> floogy: collect some debug logging from systemd itself so we can see what it is doing when reloading the unit. "sudo kill -SIGRTMIN+22 1" (that enables log_level=debug). Then reload: "sudo systemctl daemon-reload",  then relax log_level "sudo kill -SIGRTMIN+23 1" and finally, check the log: "journalctl -b 0 -n 1000" to get last 1000 reports
[18:28] <TJ-> floogy: if you're lucky, somewhere in that log, will be a clue to some syntax error in some unit file, hopefully the systemd-udevd.service but could be a related file
[18:44] <floogy> TJ-,  https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Zd3Kscx4XN/
[18:52] <TJ-> floogy: back. so, all the jobs you mentioned earlier related to udevd are reporting Exec format errors. That comes from the kernel, so I'm suspecting you've got some 32-bit executables mixed up in the 64-bit install if it isn't a control code issue in the .service files themselves
[18:53] <TJ-> floogy: what does this report? "systemd --version"
[18:54] <floogy> That might be. How can I figzure out which packages are in the wrong format?
[18:54] <TJ-> floogy: as I'm on 20.04 amd64 too, and not seeing the errors you're seeing, it seems pretty clear something on your system didn't get upgraded correctly, or some change you made manually is causing this
[18:55] <floogy> As I said before(?) I upgraded this installation from hoary, and also upgraded it from 32bit to amd64 with a helper script. Okay. That's not the standard way. I didn't thought that kind of exec format could be meant.
[18:55] <floogy> apt-show-versions might help out, then
[18:56] <floogy> Also this happened at ~ 10% upgrade procedure to 20.04
[18:57] <floogy> systemd 237
[18:57] <floogy> +PAM +AUDIT +SELINUX +IMA +APPARMOR +SMACK +SYSVINIT +UTMP +LIBCRYPTSETUP +GCRYPT +GNUTLS +ACL +XZ +LZ4 +SECCOMP +BLKID +ELFUTILS +KMOD -IDN2 +IDN -PCRE2 default-hierarchy=hybrid
[18:59] <TJ-> floogy: AHA! that isn't 20.04. 20.04 has "systemd 245 (245.4-4ubuntu3.6)"
[18:59] <TJ-> !info systemd 18.04
[19:00] <TJ-> !info systemd bionic
[19:01] <TJ-> floogy: what does this show? " pastebinit <( uname -a; lsb_release -a ) "
[19:03] <floogy> Some apt-show-versions output https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/XsZ6SB3gCR/
[19:04] <TJ-> floogy: "libsystemd0:amd64/focal-updates 237-3ubuntu10.46 upgradeable to 245.4-4ubuntu3.6"
[19:04] <floogy> No LSB modules are available.
[19:04] <floogy> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/MTmBgdwNdg/
[19:04] <TJ-> floogy: so the release-upgrade from 18.04 to 20.04 has not completed
[19:05] <floogy> Yes. It stoped with the systemd/udev error
[19:05] <floogy> at ~10-12%
[19:05] <TJ-> floogy: right, so that is complicating the issue of fixing it. I had missed that part earlier (been in and out of the channel)
[19:06] <compdoc> I think I had the same issue. found a website that said to remove two LSB packages
[19:06] <TJ-> floogy: try the obvious fix for packages. "sudo apt -f install && sudo apt upgrade"
[19:06] <TJ-> compdoc: can you recall which?
[19:07] <floogy> Yes. I see. I also got a german thread in ubuntuusers with some additional info (sorry for that sort of crossposting) https://forum.ubuntuusers.de/topic/upgrade-bionic2focal-scheitert-an-systemd-udev/#post-9249505
[19:08] <floogy> compdoc, unfortunately I didn't found such site with hints how to solve the issue.
[19:08] <compdoc> Im looking
[19:09] <TJ-> Exec format... I wonder if it is related to the binfmt-support (shouldn't be but who knows!?)
[19:10] <floogy> I found some stuff with the same error, but on bash scripts for systemd without a shebang
[19:10] <floogy> Therefor I thought, it doesn't have to do with the arch i386/amd64
[19:11] <compdoc> I have to go turn on the server that I upgraded a few days ago, to look at the lastlog
[19:12] <TJ-> floogy: I have the glimmering of an explanation now :) systemd v237 may not have supported ExecXXX= without absolute paths (as we see in the errors about absolute paths). But later systemd (v245) does. your system is currently running the old v237 systemd but has the latest udevd files. I need to check if the 18.04 udevd.server used absolute paths
[19:12] <floogy> Okay, thank you very much.
[19:13] <TJ-> floogy: ok, looking in a local 18.04 container, the systemd-udevd.service doesn't even have a ExecReload= command and no non-absolute paths
[19:13] <floogy> Yes, that seems to be a good explanation, if it's accurate.
[19:14] <floogy> Yes, so that seems to be the case. Isn't systemd the default in 18.04? Ah, maybe leftovers from way older releases?
[19:14] <TJ-> floogy: so, one solution here may be to forcefully downgrade systemd-udevd temporarily (if there's still a 18.04 package in the local /var/cache/apt/archive/ (unlikely ) or fetch the package manually and install it using dpkg --install
[19:14] <TJ-> floogy: I think what happened is udevd upgraded before systemd which broke things
[19:15] <TJ-> since its .service file now contains 'stuff' that systemd v237 can't handle
[19:15] <floogy> sudo dpkg --force-all -i /var/cache/apt/archives/udev_245.4-4ubuntu3.6_amd64.deb postrm tries to restart systemd-udevd.service
[19:16] <floogy> and fails
[19:16] <compdoc> floogy, sorry, it was a poblem with lxd and lxd-client.
[19:16] <floogy> compdoc, thank you. So I guess it's not related?
[19:16] <TJ-> !info udev bionic-updates
[19:16] <compdoc> Seems not
[19:17] <TJ-> !info udev bionic
[19:18] <floogy> But why does it omit the overwrite.conf?
[19:18] <TJ-> floogy: I can give you the commands to fetch and install the bionic-updates version of udev and libudev1 if you want to try this?
[19:18] <floogy> I edited it the way, that it has got the absolute path
[19:19] <TJ-> floogy: possibly because the .service file is broken it never tries to find an override
[19:19] <floogy> Ah, ok.
[19:20] <TJ-> floogy: and as the main .service file contains the broken line... chicken and egg problem
[19:20] <TJ-> so you cannot override it because override isn't read because original line stops the parsing of the unit
[19:20] <floogy> Do you think I should pin it at the bionic udev version and try to solve the issue after the upgrade was succeeded?
[19:21] <TJ-> floogy: OK, let's try this. as your regular user: "cd ~/Downloads; wget http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/s/systemd/udev_237-3ubuntu10.46_amd64.deb ; wget http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/s/systemd/libudev1_237-3ubuntu10.46_amd64.deb; sudo dpkg -i libudev1_237-3ubuntu10.46_amd64.deb udev_237-3ubuntu10.46_amd64.deb "
[19:22] <floogy> Hm, but a bunch of packages will not upgrade, if I'll stick with the older udev.
[19:22] <TJ-> floogy: if we get those installed, next we can pin those so they do not upgrade
[19:23] <floogy> I guess tghey are still under /var/cache/apt/archives
[19:23] <TJ-> floogy: if with a pin we then do "apt -f install" we should see what the situation now is, without ending back where we started. Then after seeing that we can remove the ping and upgrade systemd first
[19:23] <TJ-> remove the pin*
[19:25] <TJ-> to enable the pin: "sudo apt-mark hold libudev1 udev"
[19:26] <floogy> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/pYm2txH4Z3/
[19:27] <floogy> I only use the amd64 ones, right?
[19:28] <TJ-> floogy: yes. if they're already there then you can do "apt install libudev1=237-3ubuntu10.46 udev=237-3ubuntu10.46 "
[19:29] <floogy> It seems I must also install (downgrade the i386)
[19:29] <floogy> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/SwP5q3Rccy/
[19:29] <TJ-> you can limit at to the main arch
[19:29] <floogy> How that? :amd64?
[19:29] <tripelb> Sarnold  is nott here so I will announce to all. -- THIS Page explains about internal IP addresses and external AND gives you your external IP address - It's just there automatically on the page, nothing to fill out no special requests. (This is so good Maybe it should be on ubottu.)
[19:29] <TJ-> floogy: insert "-a amd64" into the command line
[19:30] <jrg> seems like ubuntu touch is probably the best candidate for this pinephone
[19:30] <TJ-> floogy: actually "-a=amd64"
[19:31] <floogy> dpkg: error: -a option does not take a value
[19:31] <TJ-> floogy: ahh, so limiting the arch isn't going to help, you need to install the i386 too
[19:31] <TJ-> floogy: the -a= is for 'apt' not dpkg
[19:31] <TJ-> floogy: ... "apt install libudev1=237-3ubuntu10.46 udev=237-3ubuntu10.46 "
[19:32] <TJ-> floogy: but the -a won't help since the amd64 package depends on the i386 package
[19:32] <floogy> That worked
[19:34] <TJ-> floogy: right, now lets try to get systemd to upgrade manually: "sudo apt install systemd"
[19:34] <floogy> success: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Vwz4Y2w2Wc/
[19:34] <floogy> Device Notifier popped up
[19:37] <floogy> from the journal https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/zBQv43PbNP/
[19:38] <floogy> Now it also tries to read the override /etc/systemd/system/systemd-udevd.service.d/override.conf:1: Assignment outside of section. Ignoring.
[19:44] <floogy> TJ-, Other issues: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Gq7pQ3Yx75/
[19:45] <TJ-> floogy: looks as if the --fix-broken is repairing?
[19:51] <floogy> Yes. It seems to be successfully: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/BsPwhs6nz9/
[19:51] <floogy> ~$ systemd --version
[19:51] <floogy> systemd 245 (245.4-4ubuntu3.6)
[19:51] <floogy> +PAM +AUDIT +SELINUX +IMA +APPARMOR +SMACK +SYSVINIT +UTMP +LIBCRYPTSETUP +GCRYPT +GNUTLS +ACL +XZ +LZ4 +SECCOMP +BLKID +ELFUTILS +KMOD +IDN2 -IDN +PCRE2 default-hierarchy=hybrid
[19:53] <TJ-> floogy: lets hope you can finally fix it all up now
[19:54] <floogy> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/fr9zkfQwwz/
[19:54] <floogy> Unfortunately it's a huge upgrade ...
[19:55] <floogy> Hopefully, it will go fine from now on.
[19:55] <TJ-> floogy: looks like a typical release upgrade
[19:57] <TJ-> floogy: if you want to it in stages you could use "apt full-upgrade --download-only" to initially fetch the packages" ( this can help if you need the package local to then selective install packages in an order you determine, to fix breakages when the system may have lost network connectivity)
[19:57] <super_koza> Hi!
[19:58] <super_koza> I installed Cuda from Ubuntu repos with apt install nvidia-cuda-toolkit
[19:58] <super_koza> NVCC is working, it reports cuda version 10.1
[19:58] <super_koza> there is no folder /usr/local/cuda/
[19:58] <super_koza> What might be going on?
[20:00] <floogy> TJ-, thanks a lot! Seems, I'm back on the right track ...
[20:01] <TJ-> floogy: phew!! thankfully
[20:02] <TJ-> super_koza: "dpkg -L nvidia-cuda-toolkit"
[20:02] <floogy> TJ-, that was a hard one
[20:02] <TJ-> floogy: we're solved worse :D
[20:02] <TJ-> floogy: we lost time in not realising the different version of systemd
[20:03] <floogy> Okay, yes. That was a bit unclear info from my side, sorry.
[20:04] <TJ-> not your fault; it always reminds me of what I tell my people. detail detail detail!
[20:04] <TJ-> never make assumptions; confirm them else be bitten by them
[20:05] <foist> I'm having trouble installing python3-pip on a new Ubuntu 20.04 install. I'm getting this error: vhttps://bpa.st/CTGQ
[20:05] <foist> sorry, https://bpa.st/CTGQ
[20:05] <floogy> For my side I'm lacking the overview of the system especially systemd. But your explanation of the changes in udev and systemd made sense to me.
[20:06] <TJ-> !info python3-distutils focal
[20:07] <TJ-> floogy: the one thing I hadn't realised in your editing the override file, which I did at the very end when it no longer mattered is, you'd not put a [Service] section header before the ExecReload= line
[20:07] <TJ-> floogy: that was what the later report about the override being ignored was meaning
[20:07] <TJ-> floogy: and of course now you can delete that override file!
[20:10] <floogy> TJ-, right, okay. Next time hopefully I think on the [headers] ...
[20:11] <foist> TJ-: was that for me? not sure how that distutils info might help me
[20:11] <TJ-> foist: I was checking it existed!
[20:11] <TJ-> foist: will a "sudo apt -f install" fix it?
[20:12] <foist> TJ-: I've tried that, no luck.
[20:12] <TJ-> foist: does that command return any errors, or is that what you showed in the paste?
[20:15] <foist> TJ-: no errors
[20:16] <TJ-> foist: show us some info: " pastebinit <( lsb_release -a; apt-cache policy python3-distutils ) "
[20:19] <foist> TJ-: https://bpa.st/2RAQ
[20:22] <TJ-> foist: there's your problem; looks like you've broken apt's /etc/apt/sources.list
[20:22] <foist> How do I tell which ones are broken?
[20:22] <TJ-> foist: show us " pastebinit <( cat /etc/apt/sources.list{,.d/*} ) "
[20:24] <foist> TJ-: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/TXTxV4Z6ng/
[20:26] <TJ-> foist: aha! you've entries from old-releases there. not sure how the system has that and you have 20.04 on it though!
[20:26] <foist> TJ-: I'm actually helping my 11yo nephew remotely :P he probably played around with his system a bit recently
[20:27] <TJ-> foist: oh crikey!!! I'm struggling to think how a system could upgrade from utopic to focal without adding the correct sources.list
[20:28] <foist> TJ-: I don't think he ever upgraded, pretty sure he started with 20.04 which is focal.
[20:28] <foist> I might be mistaken.
[20:29] <TJ-> foist: in theory, that file needs correcting but it may just be one small part of much bigger problems, so I'd recommend first finding out precisely what's been going on! examining /var/log/auth.log for commands run by sudo, and looking at the package history logs under /var/log/apt/ would be my starting point, before I changed anything
[20:29] <foist> TJ-: I mean, maybe an Ubuntu reinstall would just be easier? I don't think there's much critical there that can't be backed up.
[20:33] <TJ-> foist: here's mine (set to use GB/UK servers) https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/n8df4GxHkP/
[20:35] <TJ-> foist: and edited to remove the gb. part so you can use it directly https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/RNMcx2ZFZR/
[20:35] <foist> TJ-: you think I should just try replacing my file contents first and seeing if it fixes the problem(s)?
[20:36] <TJ-> foist: yes - use the last pastebin I provided, replace the current /etc/apt/sources.list with that, then do "sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade"
[20:38] <foist> TJ-: trying
[20:56] <zen_coder> is it possible to start a systemd service without sudo?
[20:56] <TJ-> zen_coder: only --user services
[20:57] <zen_coder> what is a --user service?
[20:57] <zen_coder> I put the service under /etc/systemd/system
[20:58] <zen_coder> TJ-: I am playing around with the sudoers file, but it seems to be ignoring my input
[21:17] <foist> TJ-: thanks for the help earlier. My nephew signed off before I got the result but I'm sure it helped in the right direction.
[22:39] <Richie086> hey all, I am using Ubuntu 20.04 and I am having issues connecting to a samba share on my NAS.   I can browse the NAS shared folders without issue when i open the file manager go to other locations select my NAS.   I see a list of shared folders on my NAS, but when I go to open ANY of the folders (I do not have any permissions set to not allow access) I am getting the following error
[22:39] <Richie086> https://ibb.co/kh1H9tq
[22:40] <Richie086> never had any issues doing this before and I have been a linux user for 10+ years.   I do not see anything relevant in /var/log/samba related to errors while attempting to browse
[22:41] <Richie086> I can access any of these folders from a windows pc without any issues
[22:43] <matsaman> Richie086: you'll probably get a more useful error from a terminal
[22:44] <matsaman> for an easy test you could try from Ubuntu 19 or some other older version; if it works that might be an indication your NAS software is now outdated
[22:44] <Richie086> using a tool like smbclient?
[22:45] <matsaman> FWIW, I never quite saw the point of a purpose-built 'NAS' when you can take some SBC like an rpi, put a Unix system on it, hook it up to a bunch of USB drives, and call it a day
[22:46] <Richie086> i purchased it years ago, no reason to not go that route its just what i have available to store 10+tb of data
[22:46] <matsaman> https://askubuntu.com/questions/101029/how-do-i-mount-a-cifs-share
[22:46] <matsaman> does it get updates?
[23:52] <mort> I've noticed a whole bunch of software in ubuntu software is listed as "updated: never" and "license: proprietary"
[23:52] <mort> that isn't a great look
[23:53] <wyoung> :)
[23:53] <mort> for example, the virtualbox package is version 6.1.18 (which was released in january, certainly not "never updated") and virtualbox is under the GNU GPL v2, certainly not proprietary