[13:42] <scott-work> pesia: is it too late for the ubuntu studio blueprint Brian had made?
[13:51] <persia> No.  Do you need it discussed at UDS?
[13:51] <persia> (and which blueprint?)
[14:22] <scott-work> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/multimedia-platform-n-pro-audio-secured
[14:23] <scott-work> persia: i don't know if it *needs* to be discussed at UDS
[14:26] <persia> Oh, it probably ought be discussed.  The "Brian" confused me.
[14:26] <persia> Anyway, seems to be scheduled for UDS.
[14:26] <persia> You probably want to push for the specification to be written :)
[14:27] <persia> And you probably want to try to make the session, if you can (remotely, so IRC+audio stream).
[15:12] <scott-work> persia: sorry for the late reply, work it keeping me busy lately
[15:12] <scott-work> i am woefully inexperience with blueprints, UDS's, and specifications
[15:13] <scott-work> who would nominally work up the specification?
[15:13] <scott-work> are there examples that might be used?
[15:13] <scott-work> where can i find out when this is scheduled so I know how much time is left?
[15:18] <persia> There are three people associated with each blueprint: an Approver, a Drafter, and an Assignee..
[15:19] <persia> The Approver is responsible for determining when a blueprint is Approved: this switches the responsible person from the Drafter to the Assignee.
[15:20] <persia> The typical workflow is that some Registrant files the blueprint, the Drafter writes up a Specification (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecTemplate ), the Approver approves it, and the Assignee coordinates the implementation.
[15:20] <persia> Blueprints may be scheduled for Sprints.  UDS is a Sprint.  You can see UDS schedules at summit.ubuntu.com
[16:15] <scott-work> persia: i found that it is scheduled for Tuesday
[16:16] <scott-work> i also found the ubuntu studio specification: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntustudio
[16:16] <scott-work> i can use that as an example
[16:16] <persia> heh, indeed.
[16:16] <scott-work> normally i would presume that I would be the "approver"?
[16:17] <persia> For stuff that would significantly change how Ubuntu Studio behaves, I'd hope so, or at least that you implicitly trust the approver.
[16:17] <scott-work> but i suggest that i might also be involved in the drafting as well
[16:20] <scott-work> it looks like daniel and luke are subscribed as well to the blueprint
[16:21] <scott-work> and assuming that they both will be at UDS-N then i feel relieve as this probably will not turn out to be completely useless without intervention
[16:21] <persia> The Drafter is responsible for coordinating drafting, and usually does the first draft.  The Specification is intended to be the result of collaboration.
[16:35] <scott-work> persia: i'll take some time from work this afternoon, sequester myself in an unused meeting room with white board, and work something up for a draft
[16:35] <scott-work> hopefully, i can convince others to look over it and improve it over the weekend
[16:36] <scott-work> persia: if there are any key bullet point items you would like to see addressed i would greatly appreciate those
[16:36]  * scott-work has so much going around in his head currently that i can't even begin to formulate a direction or specific concerns currently
[16:37] <persia> Main thing I'd like offthe top of my head is no-thought-required pulse/jack integration
[16:37] <scott-work> that is the only thing that i thought of previously and feared i was missing many other ideas LOL
[16:37] <persia> But I'm planning to attend the session and watch the implementation, and will probably make lots of points (some completely wrongheaded) along the way.
[16:38] <scott-work> but my understanding was that it would take further tinkering by pottering/upstream in pulse audio to properly integrate them
[16:38] <persia> I'm a little uncomfortable with autostart-jack-when-detect-audio-interface-on-the-firewire-network
[16:38] <persia> But that needs more discussion, more than anything else.
[16:38] <scott-work> i hope that i am incorrect and that we have the capacity to further the integration fully
[16:38] <persia> Sure, needs some upstream tinkering, but diwic might be happy to do some of that.
[16:39] <scott-work> who is diwic?
[16:40] <persia> https://launchpad.net/~diwic (the Registrant for the spec)
[16:41] <scott-work> Oh
[16:41]  * scott-work presents an embarassed grin for all to see
[16:41] <scott-work> for some reason i thought "brian" had create the blueprint
[16:42] <persia> Hence my 'The "Brian" confused me' at 13:27 :)
[16:45] <scott-work> yes, i realize that now, at the time it confuses me :P
[16:46] <scott-work> s/confuses/confused
[16:46] <scott-work> my larger concern was that the blueprint wasn't focused and my lack of attention would leave the work at the sprint unfocused and therefore not as productive as it could be
[16:52] <persia> UDS isn't a hackfest: it's just talk.
[16:52] <persia> Having a focused agenda for a spec helps, but unfocused ones happen sometimes, and sometimes end up with good results.
[16:52] <persia> Really depends on the subject and who is present.
[16:53] <persia> My main concern is that the work that diwic clearly wants to do oughtn't adversely affect Ubuntu Studio.
[16:53] <scott-work> heh, my ignorance shines again :P
[16:54] <scott-work> well, that makes me feel better then :)
[16:54] <scott-work> i'll still take some time later today and work on it a little then
[19:05] <astraljava> I'm beginning to like PPAs less and less as days go by. People have genuine trouble interpreting the nature of them vs. official repositories.
[19:06] <persia> I liked PPAs for about 3 months, when they were only available to members of ~ubuntu-dev and didn't actually protect against shooting yourself in the foot (wrong versions were OK, etc.)
[19:07] <persia> Now that they are functional third-party release archives, I have the same feeling about them as I have for e.g. getdeb.
[19:07] <persia> (the main bit being: "Why not work as *part* of Ubuntu?")
[19:08] <astraljava> Yeah. It's bad enough with all different flavours and derivatives and what have you, but now it feels like people are separating _inside_ ubuntu.
[19:09] <persia> I tend to think of flavours as an opportunity to collaborate.
[19:09] <persia> But I dislike most derivatives (the exceptions being Sabily, Ichthux, and gNewSense: all because they have very good reasons to be out-of-archive, and otherwise play well).
[19:10] <persia> And I just don't see the point of folks who have out-of-archive repos that aren't also Ubuntu developers.
[19:10] <persia> Things like the various browser every-browser-release-every-Ubuntu-release-automatic-backports repos make some sense.
[19:11] <persia> As do some of the test-this-weird-feature-before-I-upload ones.
[19:11] <persia> But the vast majority just seem to be invitations to *not* contribute to Ubuntu.
[19:11] <astraljava> I hear ya.
[23:52] <TheMuso> I agree with the above re PPAs. For me, they are only useful for testing/provide daily builds from upstrea for testing. In the Vinux project, we use PPAs because some changes that are made are not yet archive worthy, but hopefully will eventually be.
[23:53] <persia> What is Vinux?
[23:54] <TheMuso> persia: Its an ubuntu derivative focusing on accessibility. It was started by someone else in the community, but I am now using it as a testing ground for new accessibility integration work, so once its ready in vinux, we can then move it to Ubuntu proper.
[23:54] <TheMuso> ...Unfortunately some of the things the community have done with that project are aweful, aweful, aweful hacks.
[23:55] <persia> heh.  It's so sadly that way for derivatives sometimes.
[23:55] <persia> makes me like flavours even more every day.
[23:55] <TheMuso> Yeah, with time though, i intend to fix those hacks.
[23:56] <persia> But it might be worth getting the Vinux folk in touch with the LP folk: there's some work ongoing to make first-class derivatives in certain cases, which should ease merging (in-LP MoM equivalent stuff).
[23:57] <TheMuso> Hrm ok, the vinux folk currently use remastersys/whatever else out there to remaster an existing live CD.
[23:58] <TheMuso> SO I wonder in what way LP and official derivitives will solve image creation, if at all.
[23:58] <persia> Won't do a thing for image creation.
[23:58] <TheMuso> Right.
[23:58] <TheMuso> I suspected as much.
[23:58] <persia> Will provide for per-package bug tracking, and remix/derivative distinctions, and archive concentrations, etc.
[23:59] <persia> Depends on how much is in the PPA: getting it out of PPA and into the "Vimux Repository" has brand value, if nothing else.
[23:59] <persia> (course, all this is *well* off-topic here :) )


[00:55]  * bkerensa thinks blueyed might be able to help me sort it or greg-g
[00:55] <bkerensa> :D
[01:49] <cprofitt> I found a bug, but not sure which package it should go against nor how to determine which package... I suspect the calendar component of the panel
[01:50] <cprofitt> the issue is that if I double click a specific date Evolution opens up but goes to 1970 instead of the date clicked
[01:50] <cprofitt> if I say add event it comes up today's date which is normal... so it would appear information is being sent incorrectly from the double-click
[01:50] <cprofitt> any hints on how to narrow that down or report it?
[02:20] <bkerensa> cprofitt: Could run system monitor and see what is running and not idle
[02:20] <bkerensa> to narrow it down
[02:20] <cprofitt> bkerensa: good suggestion
[02:21] <bkerensa> cprofitt: I'm hoping bdmurray might be able to figure out the Boinc bug or pass it upstream...
[02:22] <cprofitt> Boinc?
[02:23] <bkerensa> yeah
[02:23] <bkerensa> distributed computing platform used by 400-500 Team Ubuntu Distributed Computing people
[02:23] <bkerensa> :P
[02:24] <cprofitt> yeah that would be important
[02:26] <bdmurray> bkerensa: do you have any links to the previous fixes for that bug?
[04:39] <bkerensa> bdmurray: Yeah let me grab it
[04:39] <bkerensa> bdmurray: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/boinc/+bug/585547
[04:39] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 585547 in boinc (Ubuntu) "boinc-client bad signature for URL (affects: 9) (heat: 11)" [Medium,Fix released]
[04:39] <bkerensa> Unsure if it is the exact cause but the effect is essentially the same between the two bugs
[04:40] <bkerensa> Boinc is rendered useless in amd64 11.10 while it works just fine in i386
[04:40] <bkerensa> I also reached out to two other people who run the amd64 iso of 11.10 and asked them to test and they experienced the same issue
[06:36] <ulysses> hello
[06:49] <bkerensa> hello ulysses
[06:49] <bkerensa> cyphermox: Do you know about the proxy settings bug?
[06:49] <ulysses> I marked a bug as Invalid, how should I mark that in the wiki?
[06:50] <ulysses> this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/876606
[06:50] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 876606 in ubuntu "kubuntu kmix in oneiric has no PA support (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,Invalid]
[06:59] <ulysses> Ok, I found it, one bug hugged
[10:23] <SwitchDK> Hi all, is it possible to assign a bug to an individual or specific PPA. I have turned a question into a bug report which should be filed against https://launchpad.net/~ondrej/+archive/redmine but not sure how to do it. The bug is bug/878090 (sorry to repeat my question but I haven't received a response yet).
[11:30] <cyphermox> bkerensa: define proxy settings bug? :)
[12:19] <SwitchDK> Hi all, is it possible to assign a bug to an individual or specific PPA. I have turned a question into a bug report which should be filed against https://launchpad.net/~ondrej/+archive/redmine but not sure how to do it. The bug is bug/878090 (sorry to repeat my question but I haven't received a response yet).
[12:37] <pedro_> oh oh today is a bug day
[12:37] <pedro_> time to change the topic
[12:43] <brendand> SwitchDK - The bug 878090 is about the PPA?
[12:43] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 878090 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Upgrade from 11.04 to 11.10 fails when using dpkg-1.16.1~natty+1 (affects: 1) (heat: 139)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878090
[12:45] <SwitchDK> brendand: thanks for replying and looking into it. It was originally a question which had been answered and I determined there is a bug in the specific dpkg that has been released on the Redmine PPA. Since the dpkg is specific to that PPA and doesn't have anything to do the official dpkg I was uncertain how to deal with it
[12:46] <SwitchDK> multiple users were affected, well at least I had received confirmation from 2 other individuals and I was able to reproduce the problem myself
[12:47] <brendand> SwitchDK - Have you read the PPA description?
[12:48] <SwitchDK> yes, that the owner is aware of it being broken?
[12:49] <SwitchDK> brendand: i might of course have missed something
[12:50] <brendand> SwitchDK - There is nothing to fix in code (I guess) so the best you can do is contact the owner, though he seems aware of the problem already
[12:50] <kamusin> king hggdh, are you there?
[12:51] <hggdh> kamusin: unfortunately yes ;-)
[12:51] <SwitchDK> brendand: so should the bug not be logged against that PPA?
[12:52] <hggdh> kamusin: good, but I just started the day -- it is cold(ish), and the bed was really nicier than the office
[12:52] <brendand> SwitchDK - PPAs don't have any way to file bugs against them. In fact I think the general policy on them is that they carry no guarantees
[12:53] <kamusin> I know what you mean heh
[12:53] <SwitchDK> brendand: that makes sense, I was just uncertain about how to report the problem dpkg specifically developed for Redmine as all users who are trying to install packages with the "broken" dpkg will have problems
[12:54] <pedro_> hello kamusin brendand hggdh!
[12:55] <kamusin> hola :)
[12:55] <hggdh> good morning pedro_ kamusin brendand :-)
[12:55] <brendand> SwitchDK - All I can say is contact ondrej directly. PPAs have nothing to do with Ubuntu per se so there's really nothing further to do. PPAs are advertised as 'use at your own risk, take what you're given'
[12:56] <SwitchDK> brendand: ok, thanks, what should be done with the bug report?
[12:57] <brendand> SwitchDK - That particular one? Well, there is no issue in any official package so you can just leave it. The correct status is 'Invalid' but 'Fix Released' doesn't do any harm either (from bug triagers point of view it's closed)
[12:58] <SwitchDK> brendand: ok, many thanks for your help. I will also drop the PPA owner a friendly email with the bug number?
[12:59] <SwitchDK> brendand: sorry that was a question
[12:59] <brendand> SwitchDK - Maybe ondrej has a bug opened or can indicate a project which he would be happy you moving the bug to. That's the best case scenario.
[12:59] <brendand> SwitchDK - As long as it's friendly ;)
[13:00] <SwitchDK> brendand: no need to be differently
[13:00] <brendand> and hi to hggdh, pedro_ and kamusin
[13:00] <brendand> hggdh, pedro_ - shall i be seeing you both next week?
[13:00] <hggdh> well. This is one of the risks on PPAs. But we need to adjust it a bit, how we (do not) deal with them
[13:01] <hggdh> brendand: certainly :-)
[13:03] <brendand> hggdh - i don't know how wise it is to start putting guarantees around PPAs. AFAIK the sole purpose is an easier way than build from source to provide testers access to *pre-release* *unwarranted* software (not that any software is really warranted ;) )
[13:05] <hggdh> brendand: indeed. But given the way folks go (based on my own experience), they tend to forget about having used a PPA, and then disaster happens.
[13:05] <hggdh> brendand: we could *check* is the install is kosher before upgrading
[13:06] <brendand> hggdh - well, i have to agree with you there. hope mvo has a bug open on update-manager :)
[13:06] <hggdh> PPAs by its nature, are a contract between the maintainer and the user, not with Ubuntu
[13:07] <SwitchDK> hggdh: the problem with this bug is at least three developers didn't associate the Redmine PPA with a dpkg problem and the Redmine PPA has a customised version of the dpkg (which of course is not official)
[13:07] <penguin42> hggdh: I wish you could make them more selective - e.g. only allow certain packages to be installed from a given PPA
[13:08] <SwitchDK> penguin42: like a list of trusted/do NOT Change packages?
[13:08] <penguin42> SwitchDK: Yes; I trust this PPA to have these packages, but if anything else crops up then ask me
[13:08] <SwitchDK>  hggdh:  so yes I agree with you hggdh
[13:09] <hggdh> penguin42: I do understand it but no, there are *NO* limits on what you can put in a PPA. How could you limit?
[13:09] <hggdh> a PPA can be opened by anyone
[13:09] <penguin42> hggdh: Oh I mean when you add a PPA on your client you restrict what you'll let apt get from there
[13:10] <hggdh> penguin42: ah. Yes, this could work
[13:10] <penguin42> hggdh: Taking the initial list when you add it as a starter say
[13:10] <hggdh> penguin42: like pinning everything in there, and you select what you want (unpin)
[13:10] <SwitchDK> penguin42, hggdg: i like that idea
[13:11] <hggdh> this will at least give you a fleeting feeling of control
[13:11] <penguin42> hggdh: Well I might be happy to let the ppa owner upgrade the version, but it's if they add another package that would worry me
[13:11] <brendand> some syntax like this in sources.list would be good:
[13:11] <penguin42> hggdh: Having said that, it doesn't really provide much control - a ppa owner could always change an innocuous package to overwrite a different file
[13:12] <hggdh> penguin42: there you go...
[13:12] <brendand> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ondrej/redmine/ubuntu oneiric main redmine ruby-mocha
[13:12] <hggdh> it is still a contract based on trust, not on knowledge
[13:13] <penguin42> hggdh: Problem is it's getting a bit dangerous - people install a lot of PPAs and I doubt people understand who they are trusting, especially when there are some Ubuntu ppa's (like the edgers etc) and some random people
[13:14] <hggdh> penguin42: I agree, and this is why I would really like some sort of control, at least on upgrades
[13:14] <penguin42> nod
[13:15] <brendand> hggdh - you could say that use of PPAs by Canonical somewhat sends out the wrong message
[13:21] <penguin42> hggdh: Perhaps something could monitor PPAs and just check whether there are any surprising changes in which set of files is included in each package?
[13:21] <SwitchDK> just a general question which is indirectly related to bugs: Some bug reports are rant/vent/complaints and some are kudos/well dones etc. Is there a way to sent kudos on to the Ubuntu/Canonical team
[13:22] <penguin42> ooh I don't think I've seen a well done bug report
[13:22] <SwitchDK> i would be happy to create one :D
[13:23] <arand> Isn't that what testimonials are for, rather?
[13:26] <SwitchDK> arand: most likely, I just hadn't thought about Testimonials. My thought was also more about short quick kudos
[13:29] <penguin42> there is a testimonial mechanism?
[13:30] <arand> from the ubuntu.com page there is..
[13:34] <arand> penguin42: Or, hmm, was...
[13:34] <SwitchDK> arand: i might need new glasses but I can't find any? Would you have a link
[13:35] <arand> SwitchDK: They're just in a forums section atm it seems
[13:35] <SwitchDK> arand: Thanks I found them now on the forum
[13:47]  * penguin42 wonders how to prod bug 877403 at someone - it's security ish
[13:47] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 877403 in upstart (Ubuntu) "crypttab LUKS password shown in cleartext (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877403
[13:50] <iceroot> if it is real, it should be critical
[13:50] <iceroot> that would be a big security issue
[13:51] <jpds> penguin42: I've never had that.
[13:51] <jpds> penguin42: And I've been using that feature for ages.
[13:51] <penguin42> jpds: It's not something I have setup, but it does seem serious if he is getting it
[13:52] <iceroot> i will test it later, i am using a luks setup here
[13:52] <iceroot> untl now its not confirmed
[13:54] <iceroot> let me check the bug if i can reproduce it
[13:56]  * penguin42 suspects it may be only in his no-splash setup
[13:56] <iceroot> guess so too
[13:56] <iceroot> but a check doesnt hurt
[13:56] <penguin42> nod
[13:56] <SwitchDK> is anybody using the hugday tools today?
[13:57] <SwitchDK> I get an AssertionError when using "hugday list"
[14:06] <brendand> SwitchDK - the package one or the source branch?
[14:27] <SwitchDK> brendand: sorry was called away, the one part of "ubuntu-qa-tools" package
[14:28] <pedro_> ah hugday tool doesn't work here ither
[14:28] <pedro_> either even
[14:28] <pedro_> is returning 0 results when doing hugday list
[14:38] <SwitchDK>  brendand: I get the AssertionError with both source branch and package :(
[14:41] <SwitchDK> brendand: it is working now :D All I did was to the "hugday current --remember" command again. Not sure if something has changed on the back end though
[14:42] <SwitchDK> pedro_: does it work for you?
[14:42] <pedro_> nope
[14:42] <pedro_> we should file a bug about it..
[14:42] <SwitchDK> pedro_, indeed ;)
[14:44] <SwitchDK> pedro_, I tried the hugday tools from the branch and they seem to work
[14:52] <pedro_> hggdh, great session :-)
[14:53] <hggdh> pedro_: I lost my bloody notes for it, and had to improvise
[15:27] <bdmurray> jibel: bug 878585
[15:27] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 878585 in update-manager (Ubuntu Natty) (and 1 other project) "update apport package hook in natty (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878585
[15:34] <penguin42> bug 875571 is a mess, it's a bunch of people with different panics
[15:34] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 875571 in linux (Ubuntu) ""Panic occurred, switch back to text console" and freezes - On 11.10 (affects: 6) (heat: 34)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/875571
[15:35]  * penguin42 has just flipped it to linux and put a note in the description asking people to file separate bugs
[17:11] <SwitchDK> is there a BugSquad team meeting today?
[17:21] <bil21al> yes the date is todays. switchDk
[17:22] <SwitchDK> bil21al: thanks, was just wondering if we were starting the meeting or it had been canceled (or I got the time zone conversion wrong)
[17:24] <bil21al> switchDK:  yes  bec i m in asia here the time is too much different  i was also waiting for that somebdy say some thing
[17:25] <bil21al> bdmurray : has the metting held ?
[17:26] <bdmurray> bil21al: no, not yet
[17:27] <bdmurray> I seem to have lost track of the time
[17:28] <bil21al> bdmurry same here
[17:28] <bdmurray> pedro_, hggdh: bug squad meeting?
[17:29] <hggdh> aye
[17:29] <hggdh> bdmurray: -meeting?
[17:30] <bil21al> i think they didnt remember it was metting today
[17:30] <bdmurray> How about here as I don't know what is on the calendar.
[17:32] <pedro_> oh is it today?
[17:32]  * pedro_ blame google calendar
[17:32] <bdmurray> well it was supposed to be last week
[17:33] <bdmurray> so lets have at it?
[17:34] <pedro_> sure
[17:34] <bdmurray> The Agenda can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meeting
[17:34] <bdmurray> There were some actions from the previous meeting
[17:34] <bdmurray> bdmurray tag bugs with 'TEST CASE' in description testcase: IN PROGRESS
[17:35] <bdmurray> I started to do this but noticed some complaints in ubuntu-devel so I am doing it as I, or my bugbot, see bugs matching this criteria
[17:35] <bdmurray> so the actions are batched together
[17:36] <bdmurray> Please help using the testcase tag though - if you see a bug with a test case in the description
[17:36] <bdmurray> bdmurray make 'testcase' an official bug tag: DONE
[17:36] <bdmurray> that was completed
[17:36] <bdmurray> bdmurray recommend people modify description with 'TEST CASE' words if steps to reproduce exist in bug description or in comments: DONE
[17:36] <bdmurray> and so was that
[17:36] <bdmurray> hggdh to review all bug workflows that result with an "Invalid" status and see if using "Incomplete" makes more sense and email bugsquad regarding results
[17:36] <pedro_> is that still there? :-P
[17:36] <bdmurray> hggdh: how is that? I seem to recall a wiki notification email about it
[17:36] <hggdh> done; I could not find any such instance
[17:37] <bdmurray> great!
[17:37] <bdmurray> hggdh to email mentorship group alpha with questions regarding value of the program and what mentees are looking for: DONE
[17:37] <bdmurray> hggdh: could you remind us of the results of that?
[17:37] <hggdh> done; we do havce to review the current status
[17:37] <hggdh> right now we are not providing what mentees expect -- hand-holding, basically
[17:38] <hggdh> I emailed -control, -bugsquad, and the mentorship-alpha with what I found
[17:39] <bdmurray> So it seems there is a disconnect between what mentees want and what mentors want to do or were doing?
[17:39] <hggdh> I think so. We expected them to be more open -- and active -- with an exclusive ML, and such; they seem to expect us to be more hand-holding
[17:40] <hggdh> they, generically, are not active
[17:40] <SwitchDK> sorry ML?
[17:40] <hggdh> Mailing List
[17:40] <bdmurray> right so we expect mentees to ask questions
[17:41] <bdmurray> and they want to be told what to do?
[17:41] <hggdh> yep. One of our expectations was that mentors would be, ah, 'switchable': any available mentor could do the trick
[17:41] <hggdh> this seems not to have happened: mentees, pretty much, do nothing if not helped to it
[17:41] <bdmurray> okay so this leads into the next item
[17:42] <bdmurray> bdmurray to create spec for UDS P regarding mentorship program
[17:42] <hggdh> the only exceptions are these that are active in the #ubuntu-bugs channel
[17:42] <bdmurray> I've not done this but it still seems like a useful discussion to have.  Agreed?
[17:42] <hggdh> which, again, reinforces the feeling that mentees *MUST* be present here
[17:42] <hggdh> +1
[17:42] <pedro_> oh yes
[17:42] <pedro_> ++1
[17:43] <hggdh> pedro_: +2?
[17:43] <pedro_> according to my crazy keyboard, yes haha
[17:43] <SwitchDK> <---- newbie, what does UDS P mean?
[17:43] <bdmurray> okay so I'll write something and get it scheduled
[17:43] <hggdh> SwitchDK: Ubuntu Development Summit, Precise
[17:44] <hggdh> SwitchDK: the new Ubuntu version
[17:44] <hggdh> bdmurray: please mark me as required
[17:44] <SwitchDK> hggdh: thanks trying to keep up with the acronyms
[17:44] <bdmurray> hggdh: okay
[17:44] <bdmurray> so that's it for action items
[17:44] <bil21al> who are able to set the importance of the bug and why  in my launchpad account there us no options of triaged and wont fix??
[17:44] <bdmurray> and I think we can skip any mentorship discussion for UDS
[17:44] <hggdh> yes
[17:45] <bdmurray> There are no recent new bug control members so skipping that
[17:45] <bdmurray> which leads to open discussions
[17:45] <bdmurray> where we can answer bil21al's question
[17:45] <hggdh> \o
[17:45] <bdmurray> bil21al: you need to be a member of ubuntu bug control to set those statuses and the importance for Ubuntu bug tasks
[17:45] <SwitchDK> I also have a couple of things I would like to bring up in the Open Discussion section
[17:46] <bdmurray> bil21al: see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl
[17:46] <bil21al> hmm so i need to be more perfect bdmurry
[17:46] <bdmurray> hggdh: did you have something?
[17:46] <hggdh> yes
[17:46] <bdmurray> bil21al: yes and you could start by putting an 'a' in my nick. ;-)
[17:46] <bdmurray> hggdh: go ahead
[17:47] <hggdh> just a comment -- I am doing a clean-up on requests to join Bug Control
[17:47] <bil21al> ok ok bdmurray no nice??
[17:47] <bil21al> now nice
[17:47] <bil21al> ?
[17:47] <hggdh> and I will, from now, on, summarily reject applications without the submission to the mailing list
[17:48] <bdmurray> bil21al: yes, thanks
[17:48] <bil21al> bdmurray its my pleasue you are my ceniour
[17:48] <bdmurray> hggdh: you'll give them a wee bit of time though between applying and receiving the application?
[17:49] <bdmurray> hggdh: actually I wonder if we should just make it a closed team
[17:50] <bdmurray> I mean we just manually add people anyway
[17:50] <bil21al> one thing i want to disscuss that which are the people who accept the membership request  and suggest the members?
[17:50] <pedro_> bdmurray, the only diff between moderated and closed is the way people gets added to the team?
[17:51] <bdmurray> I'm pretty sure
[17:51] <bil21al> is there any special team for it?
[17:51] <hggdh> bdmurray: I do, usually a week
[17:51] <bdmurray> Why don't we create an action of researching launchpad team types and closing team if possible.
[17:51] <hggdh> +1
[17:52] <bdmurray> bil21al: we'll get to you after SwitchDK
[17:52] <pedro_> https://launchpad.net/+help/team-subscription-policy.html <- found the policy for teams
[17:52] <hggdh> bil21al: any current -control member can vote on an application
[17:52] <bdmurray> well there half way done
[17:52] <pedro_> we need to test it though, so we don't have any surprise
[17:52] <bdmurray> I say make it restricted as it'll save work
[17:52] <bil21al> hggdh ok
[17:54] <bdmurray> pedro_: I think if the dev teams use restricted ones it'll be fine
[17:55] <bdmurray> SwitchDK: Did you have something to discuss?
[17:55] <pedro_> bdmurray, oh right, then sure
[17:55] <SwitchDK> thanks, as I very new member to the BugSquad I was hoping/waiting for a mentor
[17:55] <pedro_> i didn't remember they're using that
[17:55] <SwitchDK> but it seems the team is "less" functional
[17:56] <SwitchDK> so you mentioned before that new members should just ask questions in this chat instead
[17:56] <bdmurray> or on the bug squad mailing list if nobody happens to be around yes
[17:56] <SwitchDK> and that is fine with me (once I am getting used to it), but wouldn't it be worthwhile to update the Wiki pages accordingly
[17:57] <SwitchDK> currently the wiki pages say that new members should/can apply for a mentor
[17:57] <hggdh> yes -- but we will discuss mentorship during UDS (again)
[17:57] <bdmurray> well we plan to discuss the future of the mentorship program the week of the 31st
[17:57] <bdmurray> SwitchDK: do you have specific change in mind that would help though?  If so feel free to just make that change
[17:57] <SwitchDK> ok, sure, sorry I'm still trying to understand the lingo
[17:58] <SwitchDK> if it is decided that references to mentors should be removed I would be happy to help out.
[17:58] <hggdh> SwitchDK: no problem, we all started not knowing :-)
[17:58] <SwitchDK> right now I just find it confusing since I was waiting for a mentor to be assigned before attempting traiging
[17:59] <SwitchDK> but then asking in this channel it was clarified that I shouldn't wait
[17:59] <SwitchDK> so once you have a decision on the topic from your meeting on UDS it would be great if it could be circulated
[18:00] <SwitchDK> that was my only question
[18:00] <bdmurray> hggdh: I removed the bannder in ~ubuntu-bugcontrol changed the team to restricted and set it so people can renew their own memberships
[18:00] <hggdh> it certainly will; additionally, the UDS sessions have live audio, and IRC channels available for remote users
[18:00] <hggdh> bdmurray: perfect, thank you
[18:01] <SwitchDK> hggdh oh ok, didn't know that, thank you
[18:01] <bdmurray> SwitchDK: yes, we will definitely update documentation and email the bugsquad mailing list with results of our discussion
[18:01] <bdmurray> Okay are there any more questions / topics for discussion?
[18:01] <SwitchDK> bdmurray thank you that would be great and as I said I would be happy to help with wiki updates
[18:02] <SwitchDK> not from me, thank you
[18:03] <bdmurray> Okay, thanks everyone and sorry for the delay in getting the meeting going.
[18:03] <SwitchDK> no problem
[18:04] <SwitchDK> back to hugging a bug :P
[18:04] <hggdh> bdmurray: thank you
[18:04] <pedro_> thanks all
[18:04] <bil21al> ok bdmurray see you and really switchdk reminds us about the metting
[18:04] <bdmurray> SwitchDK: if you have any questions please let us know, or if you are looking for something to work on we might find something for you
[18:05] <bil21al> thanks for your time bdmurray, pedro_ and hggdh
[18:05] <SwitchDK> bdmurray thank you very kind, i am trying to do a bug on the list pedro_ sent out
[18:05] <SwitchDK> bdmurray so i will probably ask once I get more stuck than I already am
[18:08] <pedro_> SwitchDK, if you have questions just ask here in teh channel :-)
[18:08] <SwitchDK> will do, thanks pedro_
[18:09] <bil21al> pedro_ give me some thing too i m free  bro
[18:10] <pedro_> bil21al, check at the bug day page there's plenty of bugs there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20111020
[18:11] <bil21al> ok thanks i will check
[18:12] <hggdh> and I just updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl taking out the references to request membership
[18:13] <yofel> hm, what's the current way of using the hugday tools? I'm getting: RuntimeError: Error while parsing 'https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20111020'
[18:17] <SwitchDK> yofel, i had problems with the tool but it seems to work if you use the one from the branch
[18:17] <yofel> that *is* from lp:ubuntu-qa-tools
[18:18] <SwitchDK> yofel: try lp:hugday-tools instead
[18:18] <yofel> same error
[18:19] <SwitchDK> yofel, is that when you use "./hugday-tools current" ?
[18:19] <yofel> no, hugday close is what doesn't work
[18:19] <yofel> current works fine
[18:20] <SwitchDK> yofel, ok I haven't made it that far yet so don't know if it works for me
[18:24] <SwitchDK> bil21al are you working on bug 875061
[18:24] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 875061 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "11.10 doesn't remember screen brightness setting after every reboot (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/875061
[18:25] <bil21al> yes
[18:25] <SwitchDK> bil21al i just updated it a moment ago
[18:25] <SwitchDK> bil21al so refresh your screen before continuing
[18:25] <bil21al> yes yes i am watching
[18:25] <bil21al> ok
[18:25] <bil21al> u carry on
[18:25] <SwitchDK> bil21al i wasn't able to reproduce the problem on my machine unfortunately
[18:26] <bil21al> ohh man i have seen this many times
[18:26] <bil21al> when every i start my system
[18:26] <SwitchDK> bil21al could you then please update the bug with some more technical details please
[18:27] <bil21al> k
[18:30] <SwitchDK> pedro_ bdmurray once a incomplete bug has been updated on the BugDay list should I mark it as done on the BugDay list?
[18:35] <bdmurray> SwitchDK: which bug?
[18:37] <SwitchDK> bdmurray 875061
[18:38] <SwitchDK> bdmurray i have asked for more information
[18:38] <hggdh> bug 875061
[18:38] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 875061 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "11.10 doesn't remember screen brightness setting after every reboot (affects: 3) (heat: 16)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/875061
[18:39] <bdmurray> If the bug needs more information it should be incomplete
[18:39] <SwitchDK> hggdh ah you have to put "bug" in front of it
[18:39] <bdmurray> I find it a bit strange that the package is gnome-control-center but you mention debugging instructions for gnome-power-manager
[18:40] <SwitchDK> bdmurray missed the "incomplete" part, it has been updated
[18:41] <bdmurray> SwitchDK: great, thanks
[18:41] <SwitchDK> bdmurray you are right but the power manager information is useful for trouble shooting this
[18:41] <SwitchDK> bdmurray and not sure where else to go with "dim" trouble shooting
[18:41] <SwitchDK> bdmurray since it has changed in Unity (well at least I think it has)
[18:43] <SwitchDK> bdmurray would it be better to change the package to gnome-power-manager?
[18:44] <bdmurray> SwitchDK: I would think so yes
[18:45] <SwitchDK> bdmurray thank you I will update it now.
[18:50] <SwitchDK> bdmurray based on changing that information should it then be marked completed on the BugDay list? althought it is not complete yet
[18:50] <bkerensa> bdmurray: Do you know any way I might workaround this bug
[18:50] <bkerensa> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/boinc/+bug/878571
[18:50] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 878571 in boinc (Ubuntu) "boinc-client bad signature for URL (affects: 1) (heat: 14)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[18:54] <bdmurray> SwitchDK: the bug day list is just recording that an action took place
[18:55] <bdmurray> SwitchDK: and you acted on that bug and no one else needs to yet so yes it can be marked done
[18:57] <bdmurray> bkerensa: I wonder if installing the i386 version on the package on amd64 would work around it
[18:58] <bkerensa> bdmurray: Yeah but I tried doing that and am getting some error with the i386 package even though I was running it on 32bit fine
[18:58] <bkerensa> idk something is broke
[18:59] <bdmurray> "This seems to indicate that the XML received by the RPC was corrupted somehow. As you can see in the XML you PM-ed me, there is no value host_uhntiiccaator in it."
[19:00] <seb128> bdmurray, SwitchDK, pedro_: gnome-power-manager is deprecated in oneiric, the instruction for debugging should be updated
[19:00] <bdmurray> bkerensa: didn't you say something about having a web proxy?
[19:00] <bkerensa> bdmurray: Yeah proxy settings on 11.10 are broke
[19:00] <seb128> it only ships the statistics ui
[19:00] <bkerensa> cant set a proxy
[19:00] <bkerensa> 11.10 ignores settings :(
[19:00] <seb128> the other features got moved to gnome-settings-daemon and gnome-power-manager
[19:00] <bdmurray> bkerensa: right isn't it possible your network is screwing up the boinc traffic?
[19:01] <seb128> the other features got moved to gnome-settings-daemon and *gnome-control-center*
[19:03] <pedro_> seb128, bdmurray SwitchDK i'll update those debugging instructions
[19:03] <seb128> pedro_, thanks
[19:03] <pedro_> you're welcome
[19:04] <seb128> pedro_, you can probably drop all the "before 9.04 instructions" while you are at it, it's just confusing nowadays
[19:04] <seb128> we are not interested to get bug about those versions ;-)
[19:09] <bkerensa> bdmurray: I have no proxies set right now
[19:09] <bkerensa> bdmurray: and I have had other people who run 64bit Ubuntu confirm this bug
[19:16] <bil21al> has any body seen this bug or having this ?? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/874348
[19:16] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 874348 in unity (Ubuntu) "when we change the theme some icons from the launcher vanished (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[19:22] <hjd> Evening all. I've seen some bug reports requesting newer versions of programs which since the report was filed has been included in Ubuntu. Would it be ok to close these as fix released and leave a comment like "version x is in ubuntu release foo" or should I add some more information?
[19:24] <jtaylor> you can use one of these responses: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#Fixed_in_Development_release_while_still_existing_in_a_previous_release
[19:28] <hjd> jtaylor: ok. thanks :)
[19:43] <bil21al> pedro_
[19:44] <bil21al> if the bug is to much older like some people says that boot is failed in ubuntu and talks about alpha or beta 1 version so can we invaid it?
[19:47] <bil21al> any other bdmurray:
[19:48] <penguin42> bil21al: I would mark it incomplete and ask them to check it in the release
[19:48] <bil21al> ok
[19:49] <penguin42> bil21al: But don't be too hasty on things  - there are some bugs that are years old; the fact they are old doesn't necessarily mean they are invalid!
[19:50] <bil21al> yes yes ok i understand.
[19:56] <SwitchDK> seb128 pedro_ thanks for letting me know about the changes to debug info. Would you recommend I change the associated package to "gnome-control-center"
[19:57] <SwitchDK> seb128 predr_ sorry I should clarify that I am referring to bug 875061
[19:57] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 875061 in gnome-power-manager (Ubuntu) "11.10 doesn't remember screen brightness setting after every reboot (affects: 3) (heat: 16)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/875061
[19:58] <pedro_> SwitchDK, i think i've seen that bug before
[19:59] <pedro_> one sec
[19:59] <SwitchDK> yofel did you manage to fix the runtimeerror problem when closing a bug on the bugday list
[19:59] <yofel_> nope
[19:59] <pedro_> SwitchDK, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=661586
[19:59] <ubot4> Gnome bug 661586 in Other Preferences "[screen] Remember brightness level across reboots" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
[19:59] <SwitchDK> yofel_ :(
[19:59] <pedro_> which is bug 870805 on lp
[19:59] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 870805 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Screen dialog won't remember brightness setting (affects: 1) (heat: 54)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/870805
[20:00] <pedro_> SwitchDK, feel free to mark it as a duplicate
[20:00] <SwitchDK> pedro_ wow how to you remember that, i will update to mark it as duplicate
[20:00] <SwitchDK> pedro_ thanks
[20:00] <pedro_> you're welcome
[20:02] <SwitchDK> pedro_ how would I mark a bug "completed" on the BugDay list when the hugday tool won't allow me to?
[20:02] <yofel> edit the wiki page by hand
[20:03] <pedro_> edit the wiki
[20:03] <pedro_> yeah as yofel said
[20:03] <bil21al> some people assign their bug to themselves even they are not a programmer so what to do with that??
[20:03] <SwitchDK> yofel_ yofel pedro_ ok that simple I thought there was something more complicated
[20:05] <phil93> Could a control member please mark bug #879038 as triaged? It's a simple documentation issue and I believe all of the necessary information is there for an ubuntu-docs team member to work on it.
[20:05] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 879038 in ubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "help.ubuntu.com lists 11.04 as Natty and as Oneiric. (affects: 2) (dups: 1) (heat: 16)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/879038
[20:06] <yofel> I *think* that should be filed agains the ubuntu-website project
[20:06] <yofel> it's certainly not the docs package in the archive
[20:06] <yofel> *against
[20:07] <bil21al> pedro_ some people assign bug to them selves even they are not a programer than what to do ??
[20:07] <bil21al> i assign my self and than un assign do i roght ??
[20:07] <bil21al> right
[20:07] <bil21al> ?
[20:08] <bil21al> any body tell me plz
[20:08] <pedro_> bil21al, Do not assign bugs to yourself unless you're planning to fix the issue
[20:08] <pedro_> if you want to receive emails when the reporter replies to you , then subscribe to the email
[20:08] <phil93> yofel: Hmm, thats a good point. But Bug 590932 described something similar and its packaging seemed correct.
[20:08] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 590932 in ubuntu-docs (Ubuntu Natty) (and 3 other projects) "broken link to ubuntu licensing page (affects: 1) (heat: 1)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/590932
[20:09] <pedro_> s/email/bug
[20:09] <bil21al> pedro_ yes i know that but some people who dnt knw about that assign to themselves than what to do with that before marking incomplete??
[20:10] <yofel> phil93: true, then I have no idea, sorry
[20:10] <pedro_> bil21al, unassign if you sure that they're not planning to work on the issue
[20:11] <pedro_> bil21al,  if unsure ask with the bug number here in the channel
[20:11] <bil21al> pedro_ : ok sir
[20:11] <phil93> yofel: Alright, I'll assign ubuntu-website anyway and wait for someone to get around to it. Thanks.
[20:19] <yofel> phil93: actually switch that to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-docs
[20:20] <yofel> so it seems filing it against the package is fine too
[20:22] <yofel> ah, already duped
[20:22] <phil93> yofel: Yeah, I noticed that its a dupe as well
[20:35] <hggdh> generically, it is a good idea to *subscribe* to the bugs you are triaging. Nothing is worse than a fire-and-forget (add a comment asking for something, and never return)
[20:36] <SwitchDK> good night all, thanks for all the help. It has been fun
[20:37] <hggdh> SwitchDK: welcome :-)
[20:43] <sroecker> bug 876787
[20:43] <ubot4> sroecker: Error: Bug #876787 not found.
[20:54] <penguin42> is there a way to teach apport-collect to collect the Xorg and kernel logs for xserver-xorg-input-evdev?
[20:58] <hggdh> penguin42: yes, by patching /usr/share/apport/package-hooks/source_xserver-xorg-input-evdev.py
[20:58] <yofel> penguin42: by apport hook
[20:58] <hggdh> penguin42: this file belongs to xdiagonse
[20:58] <hggdh> xdiagnose
[20:59] <yofel> and is a symlink to /usr/share/apport/package-hooks/source_xorg.py
[21:00] <penguin42> oh - so this is the reason that asking people to apport-collect on x packages is doing nowt?
[21:00] <bkerensa> :(
[21:00] <hggdh> penguin42: I would guess yes (but have not looked at the source)
[21:00] <yofel> penguin42: if xdiagnose isn't installed, apport-collect won't do anything useful
[21:00] <penguin42> hggdh: Well, it's not installed so it's not going to help!
[21:00] <hggdh> heh
 Ok, so we should ask people to install xdiagnose and then run apport-collect
[21:01] <yofel> hm... ubuntu-desktop depends on it
[21:02] <yofel> and kubuntu-full o.O
[21:02]  * penguin42 didn't have it installed
[21:02] <penguin42> hmm but I do on <--- machine
[21:03] <yofel> well, I didn't have it installed either. As only *ubuntu*-desktop depends on it
[21:04] <hggdh> this warrants a bug, I guess. xdiagnose should be a dependency of all supported flavours
[21:06] <penguin42> there needs to be a hook hook, so that apport can ask for something to be installed
[21:07] <yofel> that would probably need apt-file - or a generated DB of hooks
[21:07]  * bkerensa really needs this bug to be fixed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/boinc/+bug/878571
[21:07] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 878571 in boinc (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "boinc-client bad signature for URL (affects: 1) (heat: 14)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[21:07]  * bkerensa is likely going to have to downgrade to 32bit otherwise
[21:10] <yofel> bkerensa: poking here won't help though - we don't fix bugs here
[21:10] <bkerensa> yofel: I realize
[21:10] <bkerensa> although the maintainers are in this channel
[21:10] <bkerensa> but afkish
[21:14] <hggdh> bkerensa: AFAIK the maintainers for boinc are at boinc.berkeley.edu
[21:14] <hggdh> bkerensa: and if you go  to http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php you may find a version that works
[21:16] <bkerensa> hggdh: I am unable to install anything other than the amd64
[21:16] <bkerensa> and the amd64 .deb is broken
[21:16] <bkerensa> I tried installing the i386 but it wont let me even with force
[21:16] <hggdh> bkerensa: I know, I saw your bug.
[21:16] <hggdh> bkerensa: what happens if you try to install the i386 version?
[21:18] <bkerensa> hggdh: http://pastebin.com/gKuPpvq8
[21:18] <bkerensa> that happens
[21:19] <hggdh> well, you are using dpkg... and asking to install a single package. dpkg will not do dependency resolution
[21:19] <hggdh> you could try 'apt-get install boinc-client:i386'
[21:24] <hggdh> additionally, --force-<whatever> is potentially dangerous ;-)
[21:28] <bkerensa> hggdh: that caused this:
[21:28] <bkerensa> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[21:28] <bkerensa>  boinc-client:i386 : Depends: python:i386 (>= 2.3) but it is not installable
[21:28] <bkerensa>                      Depends: adduser:i386 but it is not installable
[21:28] <bkerensa> E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
[21:29] <hggdh> bkerensa: the last line suggests your system is already broken -- 'you have help broken packages'. First of all, clean it up (run synaptic, for example)
[21:29] <hggdh> s/help/held/
[21:30] <hggdh> or run apt-get check
[21:35] <bkerensa> hggdh: I sorted that but then when I tried to install again it wanted to remove my power-manager and network stuffs
[21:35] <bkerensa> =o
[21:39] <hggdh> ah well
[21:41] <bkerensa> hggdh: Yeah and the boinc people seem to think it has to do with Ubuntu and not their package
[21:41] <bkerensa> so idk
[21:42] <hggdh> bkerensa: boinc-client is in Universe. Perhap you will have more luck on the #ubuntu-motu channel
[21:52] <hggdh> bkerensa: lastly, I have boinc running on a server (oneiric), AMD64, no problems
[21:52] <bkerensa> hggdh: Odd well how would I troubleshoot because I had two other people check on amd64 11.10
[21:52] <bkerensa> and they had the same error and it has happened in the past and had to be fixed
[21:53] <hggdh> IDK, I never looked at the boinc source. But I *did* see some HTTP errors, but boinc recovered and finished the downloads
[21:55] <bkerensa> hggdh: Well in my logs it wont even attach
[21:56] <bkerensa> so nothing gets downloaded at all
[21:56] <bkerensa> =/
[21:56] <bkerensa> when I was running i386 iso boinc worked fine
[22:18] <Nukeador> Hi there
[22:18] <Nukeador> Could someone ping Ubuntu QA to get attention on this critical Libreoffice Calc bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/873702
[22:18] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 873702 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "some function names in Calc appear in english others in local language (mixed up) (affects: 7) (dups: 1) (heat: 48)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[22:19] <penguin42> Nukeador: Why is it critical?
[22:19] <Nukeador> You can't use functions!
[22:20] <Nukeador> You can if you use English ones
[22:20] <Nukeador> but all documents use the localized ones
[22:20] <Nukeador> So nobody can use their previously work using libreoffice localized versions
[22:20] <Nukeador> :S
[22:21] <penguin42> Nukeador: OK, just do me a favour - explain how translated function names work - I've only used English
[22:21] <penguin42> Nukeador: So if I say average() does it store the text of that in the file so that a file in one language doesn't work in others?!
[22:21] <Nukeador> Ok, instead of UPPER() in Spanish you have MAYUSC()
[22:21] <penguin42> Nukeador: OK, and that gets stored in the file like that?!
[22:22] <Nukeador> yes
[22:22] <Nukeador> Same on OO and MS Office
[22:22] <Nukeador> And now, they don't work
[22:22] <Nukeador> So imagine the disaster
[22:22] <penguin42> Nukeador: Yuch - it seems mad to me that the file format doesn't store a token that works in all of them
[22:23] <penguin42> but OK
[22:23] <Nukeador> For some reason Libreoffice stop understanding localized functions
[22:24] <Nukeador> So people are complaining about not being able to use the localized ones and not being able to use their previously saved files
[22:24] <penguin42> nod
[22:25] <penguin42> Nukeador: OK, marked as 'High' which seems to be the right marking as far as the Ubuntu bug hierarchy goes
[22:25] <Nukeador> ok
[22:25] <Nukeador> thanks
[22:26] <penguin42> Nukeador: No problem - but out of curiousity, explain to me - does that mean a German writing a spreadsheet can't hand it to a Spaniard ?
[22:26] <Nukeador> Don't know, maybe if you have the l10n package
[22:27] <penguin42> oh also, this all worked in 11.04 ?
[22:27] <Nukeador> yes
[22:27] <Nukeador> this problem was after updating to 11.10
[22:27] <penguin42> ok, I've tagged it as a regression
[22:27] <Nukeador> In 11.04 I was able to use Spanish and English functions
[22:28] <Nukeador> But the app suggest you always a list in Spanish
[22:28] <Nukeador> so everyone was using the localized ones
[22:28] <Nukeador> It's the same in OO and MS Office localized versions
[22:28] <penguin42> it must make it really hard when swapping stuff between people in different countries - I only know English so never have the problem :-)
[22:29] <Nukeador> Maybe internally the app is able to understand the functions in all languages
[22:29] <Nukeador> No idea
[22:30] <hggdh> personally, it sounds like it is a presentation issue -- otherwise we would not be able to use spreadsheets from other languages, which would be really dumb
[22:30] <hggdh> but, as penguin42, I only use English
[22:30] <Nukeador> What it really surprised me was that nobody had detected this bug in beta versions
[22:31] <penguin42> Nukeador: Sometimes it happens, sometimes people don't report it, and sometimes it breaks after the beta
[22:31] <Nukeador> Yeah, I know
[22:31] <hggdh> Nukeador: well, for something like this to be caught, there has to be volunteers testing it. So this begs the question -- did you?
[22:31] <Nukeador> For the record, when you use a localized function now you get a #NAME error
[22:32] <Nukeador> No, I didn't have time to test the betas
[22:32] <Nukeador> Do you know if there is a QA team for each locale?
[22:32] <hggdh> I do know. There is not
[22:33] <Nukeador> So officially Canonical only QA the English versions and relay the rest locales to the community right?
[22:34] <penguin42> But I'm fairly sure a lot of the Canonical guys aren't just English, so I'd expect them to be testing stuff in other languages
[22:34] <Nukeador> Maybe the people who is localizing the apps is also testing them
[22:35] <Nukeador> Well, but in this case I suppose Ubuntu is using the mainstream localization
[22:35] <penguin42> possibly, it's also possible that the level of testing for localisation is less - e.g. I guess they start each part up and check it displays in the right language, but maybe they haven't got a test file created in each language or something like that
[22:35] <Nukeador> As it does for Firefox
[22:36] <Nukeador> So it's more complicated to have a Libreoffice localized that use Ubuntu and Libreoffice Ubuntu package
[22:49] <hggdh> Nukeador: just a correction -- this is not Canonical's resposibility; this is Ubuntu
[22:50] <hggdh> and Ubuntu is a community effort
[22:51] <hggdh> for localisation tests we need people running these languages; it happens that I could test English, French, Portuguese, but my systems are all English-based
[22:56] <Nukeador> hggdh, I know I know, but it would be cool if Canonical has a group to test localizations too
[22:58] <hggdh> it would. How many languages would Canonical need? All? some?
[22:58] <hggdh> hum
[22:58] <Nukeador> At least the most used
[22:59] <Nukeador> I'm speaking from my ignorance about how Canonical works internally
[22:59] <penguin42> hggdh: It would seem appropriate to test some i18n stuff officially
[22:59] <hggdh> penguin42: as far as I understand, this is done
[23:00] <hggdh> most of Canonical's people run the systems in their native language
[23:00] <hggdh> and there are *many* French- and Spanish speaking folks
[23:01] <hggdh> interesting that libreoffice in French shows a melange of English and French for the functions names
[23:02] <hggdh> I wonder if this is not a localised issue
[23:02] <hggdh> no matter what, seems bad
[23:02] <Nukeador> I think it's the same for Spanish
[23:02] <Nukeador> Some are in Spanish, some in English
[23:02] <Nukeador> the most used ones in English
[23:04] <hggdh> I wonder if 'critical' would apply here
[23:07] <penguin42> hggdh: It might but it doesn't seem to fit the bugs/Importance rule - how do we raise a LibreOffice person to see what they think?
[23:08] <hggdh> pinging #ubuntu-desktop...
[23:12] <hggdh> I am assigning the bug to the ubuntu-desktop team
[23:14] <hggdh> Nukeador: thank you for bringing this to our attention; can you please ping me tomorrow, so that I do not forget to talk with the folks from the desktop team?
[23:17] <Nukeador> OK, I'll try to remember leaving this channel open ;)
[23:17] <Nukeador> I have to go
[23:17] <Nukeador> See you guys, and thanks
[23:20] <hggdh> welcome
[23:21] <hggdh> why don't we have something like a babel fish?
[23:22]  * penguin42 eat it
[23:34] <hggdh> heh
[23:34] <penguin42> don't suppose you know if there is a way to list all .i386 packages installed?
[23:35] <penguin42> hmm, dpkg -l | grep :i386 works, hmm
[23:36] <hggdh> so I will not answer ;-)
[23:37]  * penguin42 is trying to clean up the mess left by trying to install DART


[20:19] <DrZ> Hi everyone. I'm trying to start using my Bazaar again.
[20:20] <DrZ> I think Ive an issue with ssh because I got this error
[20:20] <DrZ> Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir()
[20:20] <DrZ> So I generated a new SSH key
[20:20] <DrZ> uploaded to launchpad.net the public part
[20:20] <DrZ> I still get the error
[20:21] <DrZ> Is this all im missing ?  IdentityFile  /home/me/.ssh/id_rsa_launchpad
[20:21] <DrZ> Seems to make no difference
[20:21] <Peng> DrZ: bzr help launchpad-login
[20:22] <Peng> DrZ: If you haven't configured your LP username, "lp:" URIs will use HTTP, not SSH.
[20:23] <DrZ> So this was outputted
[20:23] <DrZ> Setting ssh/sftp usernames for launchpad.net.
[20:24] <DrZ> Still same error when I try commit
[20:24] <DrZ> I don't get it
[20:25] <DrZ> I configured my name earlier
[20:25] <fullermd> You'll have to change the push (or maybe bound, by your ref to commit) location of the branch to the writable transport.
[20:25] <Peng> "bzr info" on the branch?
[20:25] <Peng> ^
[20:27] <DrZ> So I ran bzr info and I got a popup for my SSH password. Entered that.
[20:27] <DrZ> Seems to return the repo info now
[20:28] <DrZ> Added to list of known hosts
[20:29] <DrZ> Same error though when I try commit
[20:31] <DrZ> I havent used the repo in a long while. Would that cause any issues?
[20:35] <fullermd> You still need to change the saved locations.  Doing a lp-login doesn't change what's in existing branches.  See the info output.
[20:39] <DrZ> Do I put something into locations.conf in the .bazaar folder ?
[20:40] <DrZ> Location:
[20:40] <DrZ> shared repository: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/photofiltre-lx/
[20:40] <DrZ> repository branch: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/photofiltre-lx/
[20:41] <DrZ> I ran this - bzr info lp:photofiltre-lx
[20:41] <Peng> Run "bzr info" with no arguments in your *local* copy of the thing.
[20:41] <Peng> (or run "bzr info path/to/your/local/thing"
[20:41] <DrZ> Ohhhhh XD
[20:41] <DrZ> Sry completely misunderstood.
[20:42] <Peng> See, this is the problem with DVCSes. I say "The Branch" and it's ambiguous what i mean. ;P
[20:42] <DrZ> Hehe :)
[20:43] <Peng> If we all used Subversion... :D
[20:43] <DrZ> checkout of branch: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~photofiltrelx/photofiltre-lx/main/
[20:43] <DrZ> That is the location output
[20:44] <DrZ> Eww, Subversion just reminds me of every coding job I've had thus far. :D
[20:44] <DrZ> Companies love SVN o_O
[20:44] <fullermd> Not all companies.  Some love VSS.
[20:45] <Peng> Perfoooooooorce
[20:45] <fullermd> To say nothing of Clearcase...
[20:45] <Peng> The way to change the checkout to bzr+ssh is with 'bzr reconfigure --bind-to lp:~photofiltrelx/photofiltre-lx/main' I think?
[20:46] <fullermd> I was gonna say just 'bzr bind lp:photofiltre-lx'
[20:46] <Peng> ah
[20:46] <fullermd> (assuming that's the lp:whatever you originaly co'd it with)
[20:46] <fullermd> Maybe bind doesn't just reset by itself?
[20:46] <Peng> Or get out a text editor and go digging in .bzr/checkout ;D
[20:47] <Peng> fullermd: I dunno
[20:47] <fullermd> It'd be in .bzr/branch   :p
[20:47] <fullermd> Well, if it doesn't, you can just unbind and then bind lp:foo I guess.
[20:47] <DrZ> Hum.. Will I try the bind command?
[20:48] <DrZ> SweeEEEeeeEEeeeEEEeeeTTTTT!!! xD
[20:49] <DrZ> Why didn't ye just say that in the first place ;) :D
[20:49] <DrZ> Thanks guys!
[20:49] <DrZ> Commit went though
[20:52] <DrZ> Anyone have experience with Git import into Bazaar?
[20:57] <fullermd> Not really.  I'd guess the fast-import route would be the best bet?
[21:04] <DrZ> Cool. Thanks!


[14:51] <tkc_> Hi, is there any interest in supporting Wi-Fi but in AP mode i.e., running hostapd instead of wpa_supplicant? This is useful if Ubuntu is used in a router, and managing this through netplan makes life easier like OpenWRT.
[14:54] <tkc_> This would also need support for DHCP server and managing IPv4/6 forwarding (router).
[16:22] <tkc17> If there is interest, I can start on extending the Wi-Fi part to support AP mode.