[05:03] <xsmltx> Hi, tell me please is there any way to use Lubuntu-core minimal to recognize a touch screen tablet? Thank you.
[05:06] <tsimonq2> xsmltx: I don't know if it can be done, please send an email to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and we can help you out. :)
[05:06] <xsmltx> Thank ypu
[05:06] <xsmltx> Thank ypu
[05:07] <xsmltx> Thank you tsimonq2, excuse me...
[05:07] <tsimonq2> it's fine ;)
[05:09] <xsmltx> tsimonq2, tell me please mag
[05:10] <tsimonq2> huh?
[05:10] <xsmltx> tsimonq2, tell me please maybe you know If I can use on Lubuntu-core minimal Virtual box?
[05:11] <xsmltx> My apologizes again, it's very dark in here...
[05:12] <lynorian> xsmltx, virtualbox won't help with the touch screen tablet drivers
[05:12] <tsimonq2> xsmltx: if you install Ubuntu Server, then install the lubuntu-core package, you should be good to go
[05:13] <xsmltx> I would like to be as neat-light-fast-minimal as possible please... :)
[05:14] <xsmltx> lynorian, tell me please I will can't use virtualbox on a touch screen table ?
[05:14] <lynorian> you can use virtualbox
[05:14] <lynorian> or if lubuntu is the base you can also use virt-manager
[05:15] <xsmltx> tsimonq2, than it means I can't use virtualbox or any other virtual machine on lubuntu-core minimal ?
[05:15] <tsimonq2> I'll let you get this lynorian :)
[05:15] <xsmltx> Oh, ok lynorian, than try virt-manager instead of virtualbox ?
[05:16] <lynorian> I think either will work but virt-manager will work if lubuntu is the base what are you running as a guest
[05:18] <xsmltx> And it will work for sure virt-manager on a Lububutu-core minimal pleas and tell me please, do you know what I have to do that the Lubuntu-core minimal recognize the touch screen, or still ask on<EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[05:19] <lynorian> although virtualizatoin like this means lots of ram use
[05:20] <xsmltx> Yes, the tablet has 4 GB, that's why at least the host to be as minimal as possible...
[05:21] <xsmltx> I should still ask on<EMAIL_ADDRESS>about the touch screen, is it right ?
[05:22] <lynorian> yeah virtualbox or virt-manager on 4GB of space will not really work
[05:23] <xsmltx> Even if I will virtualize also only for example Kali Linux light ?
[05:23] <xsmltx> And the host will be with Lubuntu-core minimal ?
[05:24] <lynorian> xsmltx, Well I would get the same pacakages as in kali and then put them on lubuntu minimal
[05:24] <lynorian> or maybe even just a window manager
[05:27] <xsmltx> lynorian, if it would be possible I would like to use those packages if it could be possible in a virtual environment, it could be Lubuntu or Kali...
[05:28] <xsmltx> Do I can use virtualbox from openbox?
[05:28] <lynorian> yes not sure you will have enough free space
[05:29] <xsmltx> Be right back..
[07:03] <HickorySmokedBac> What's wrong with lubuntu's links? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/GetLubuntu
[07:03] <HickorySmokedBac> The requested URL /lubuntu/releases/xenial/release/lubuntu-16.10-desktop-amd64.iso was not found on this server.
[09:01] <ornj> how do I get startx to do all the same stuffs lightdm do?
[09:02] <ornj> or: what do I need to put in .xinitrc (?) to make it work like lightdm/do what I need?
[11:03] <Lisaevb> The German people have  been systematically vilified because they dared to stand up to the world banking cabal in their own country. See this book: "The Myth of German Villainy" by Benton Bradberry. On YT be sure to check out ALL WARS ARE BANKERS' WARS.
[11:04] <ornj> lol ok dude
[11:05] <Lisaevb> ornj, SORRY MOM, I was WRONG about the "HOLOCAUST" - Monika Schaefer, Green Party Politician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0_BZphQ7Qo
[12:12] <ioria> lubuntu 16.10 i386   fails to install  grub on mbr /dev/sda if offline ? anyone knows ?
[12:43] <joedoe47_> ioria: that means your drive must have been disconnected while it was writing to the master boot record, are you sure the connections to the drive are secure?
[12:43] <joedoe47_> it might have wiggled out, otherwise it might be a bug with the installer.
[12:44] <joedoe47_> or the hardware could be failing too.
[12:44] <ioria> joedoe47_, thanx, i tried 3 times, an offline installation ( without eth cable connected) and it fails ... the forth time i connected the cable and selected 'istall updates? and it worked
[12:45] <joedoe47_> oh it might be a bug somewhere then:?
[12:45] <ioria> joedoe47_,  i did the usb stick (md5sum confirmed) either with rufus and linupendrive (uui)
[12:46] <ioria> joedoe47_,  i also checked the media for defects
[12:47] <joedoe47_> well I generally trust sha256 of sha512 for sums, md5 is sort of simplistic for my paranoid needs... but uh that is why I say its a bug
[12:48] <ioria> joedoe47_,  i see  yes, maybe a bug (idk)  .... i wonder if anyone else experienced the same issue
[12:50] <joedoe47_> I have before with 14.04, its probably the installer itself or one of the packages. Its no biggie. You might be able to try an offline install again in like a few weeks and it will be fixed. c:
[12:50] <ioria> joedoe47_,  right. thanks
[15:14] <happycamper> hi guys
[15:15] <happycamper> is it worth updating from 16.04 i heard 16.10 is not LTS. untill when is 16.04 supported? help pls im not good with google :P
[16:45] <krakyk89> hi there
[16:45] <krakyk89> just wanted to ask
[16:45] <krakyk89> I have a messed up compaq presario
[16:46] <krakyk89> 1 gb ram, core2duo t6400 2ghz
[16:46] <krakyk89> and 250 gigs of hdd
[16:46] <krakyk89> can i use it for compiling and executing c programs
[16:46] <krakyk89> ?
[17:48] <gde33> hi
[17:48] <gde33> when i do sudo add-apt-repository ppa:xorg-edgers    or   sudo add-apt-repository ppa:xorg-edgers/ppa   it says  "Fout: heeft enkele softwarebron als argument"
[17:49] <gde33> whihc translates to error: single software source as argument
[17:49] <gde33> I'm trying to get the sis video thing working on 14.04.5
[17:52] <gde33> oh ic I typed it from a website like apt-add but it should be add-apt
[17:53] <gde33> now it says "cannot add ppa: ' ppa:xorg.edgers/ppa' please check that the ppa name or format is correct.
[17:54] <Unit193> The exact command should be  sudo add-apt-repository ppa:xorg-edgers/ppa  and as the page says, you shouldn't be using hwe with it.
[17:59] <gde33> Unit193: thanks, what does hwe mean?
[18:00] <Unit193> Hardware enablement stack.
[18:00] <wxl_> !hwe | gde33
[18:00] <Unit193> wxl_: You've got a tail.
[18:02] <gde33> let me explain the issue first, I have some ancient acer travelmate 2310 that has a SiS M661MX video adapter
[18:02] <gde33> when I ran the live usb it seemed reasonable, the resolution was not very high but ok
[18:02] <gde33> now, after install it is 640
[18:03] <gde33> I read some of the sis video things have been fixed in 14.04 even with hardware acceleration
[18:03] <gde33> just not this one
[19:03] <MrFahrenheit> has anyone seen this problem: I install a fresh lubuntu 16.04, install libreoffice, and the main menu is all jumbled up and squished together
[19:03] <MrFahrenheit> https://i.imgur.com/aELF5mx.png
[19:03] <MrFahrenheit> all other applications look fine, and changing the theme fixes it, until I start the application again
[19:12] <MrFahrenheit> this is what is should look like https://i.imgur.com/JQudHL0.png
[19:38] <ornj> yeah
[19:38] <ornj> with serbian/croatian it's hard to tell the difference  :P
[19:39] <MrFahrenheit> same happens in english, I just forgot to change it before taking the screenshot
[19:40] <ornj> i mean, is Datotekalzmijeni one word or six?
[19:40] <ornj> :P
[19:41] <MrFahrenheit> check the second screenshot :P
[19:41] <ornj> i figured it out midway between typing it
[19:42] <ornj> which is why that "l" looked short
[19:42] <ornj> "датотека" is a cool word and makes sense
[19:44] <ornj> is this maybe more of an LXDE problem?
[19:46] <MrFahrenheit> no idea
[19:46] <ornj> me neither  :P
[19:46] <ornj> just suggesting you might have luck asking in that chan as well
[20:09] <newnoob> so quiet here
[20:10] <wxl> newnoob: as the topic said, go to #lubuntu-offtopic if you want to chat. otherwise, support only happens as needed. need something?
[20:13] <ornj> how do I get startx to do all the same stuffs lightdm do?
[20:13] <ornj> or: what do I need to put in .xinitrc (?) to make it work like lightdm/do what I need?
[20:19] <xsmltx> Hi, tell me please which system emulator is more recommendable for using Lubuntu-core minimal under it please?
[20:20] <gde33> +++++++++++++
[20:20] <gde33> cat sorry
[20:21] <ornj> haha
[20:22] <gde33> best was when he held down delete and deleted all my torrents
[20:23] <gde33> but technical queestions, right... why do live usb sticks give me great OS's with wifi and high resolution but the actual install wont?
[20:30] <wxl> ornj: http://askubuntu.com/questions/391489/cant-use-startx-with-lxde#391495
[20:31] <wxl> xsmltx: you want to run lubuntu-core in a virtual machine?
[20:31] <xsmltx> wxl, yes please...
[20:31] <wxl> gde33: grab additional drivers and you should be good to go. if you want more specific help, we need more specific information.
[20:32] <wxl> xsmltx: you can run it in any virtual machine. i like kvm as it's basically built into the default kernel.
[20:32] <wxl> xsmltx: of course, if you have a windows host, that's not very helpful. virtualbox works everywhere.
[20:33] <xsmltx> Thank you very much wxl, I will have more questions soon.. I appreciate
[20:33] <wxl> xsmltx: no problem.
[20:33] <ornj> wxl>> but, surely, "exec startlxde" alone isn't enough to replicate what lightdm does...?
[20:34] <ornj> like, is there some file I can peek into to see what-all lightdm is doing?
[20:34] <ornj> to replicate in the .xinitrc ?
[20:34] <wxl> ornj: basically what lightdm does, after login, is start up an lxsession. that session includes everything necessary to start lxpanel, openbox, pcmanfm, etc.
[20:34] <wxl> ornj: if you're trying to replicate what lxsession does, that's a whole different story.
[20:34] <Unit193> You may have to  export DESKTOP_SESSION=lubuntu and export XDG_SESSION_DESKTOP=lubuntu
[20:34] <ornj> can i... start up an lxsession with startx ?
[20:35]  * ornj only a little lost
[20:35] <wxl> that's what the answer was about
[20:35] <ornj> wxl>> so startlxde starts up an lxsession.
[20:35] <wxl> ornj: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/xenial/en/man1/startlxde.1.html
[20:36] <ornj> <3
[20:36]  * ornj tips his hat to wxl
[20:38] <wxl> ornj: here's an older version of startlxde http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/wily/lxde-common/wily/view/head:/startlxde.in
[20:38] <wxl> so now you know what it does :)
[20:38] <ornj> so if I `sudo apt-get install xorg-xinit' and add `exec startlxde' to the .xinitrc, that should be enough to replicate the behaviour I want?
[20:38] <wxl> seems like it
[20:39] <wxl> never done it myself so good luck :)
[20:39] <ornj> AH-HA  :D
[20:39] <ornj> haha thx
[20:39] <ornj> i guess worse comes to worse i uncomment + start over
[20:39] <wxl> yuup
[20:39] <wxl> you could run it all in a virtual machine, too
[20:39] <wxl> in order to test it out
[20:40] <ornj> gotta get me one of those
[20:49] <suitefoot29> please tell me how to remove lxde+lubuntu, after installing mate on a lubuntu system
[20:50] <wxl> suitefoot29: i'd check with the mate folks, technically, but removing lubuntu-desktop/core should do the trick.
[20:50] <suitefoot29> it didnt work
[20:50] <suitefoot29> i removed another app and lubuntu-desktop was removed oto
[20:50] <suitefoot29> but nothing else
[20:51] <wxl> then i'd go through the entire list of apps and remove them one at a time
[20:51] <suitefoot29> ...
[20:51] <wxl> what i can tell you is that a normal install of lubuntu is a matter of installing lubuntu-desktop, basically
[20:51] <wxl> if you remove that, it should remove everything except ubuntu-core
[20:51] <suitefoot29> how about this
[20:51] <wxl> however, i have no idea what you did to yours, nor what the implication of installing mate is
[20:51] <Unit193> wxl: Not how metas/tasks work..
[20:52] <suitefoot29> i will go "apt-get install --reinstall lubuntu-desktop"
[20:52] <suitefoot29> get list
[20:52] <suitefoot29> then apt-get remove those things
[20:52] <suitefoot29> ??
[20:52] <suitefoot29> ther is no implication
[20:52] <wxl> seems plausible
[20:52] <suitefoot29> i just have mate now with lightdm
[20:52] <suitefoot29> ok
[20:52] <suitefoot29> i will do it now
[20:53] <suitefoot29> that doesnt work bec it removes core things too
[20:54] <suitefoot29> son of b
[20:54] <wxl> why don't you just do a fresh install of mate, re-using your old /home?
[20:55] <suitefoot29> i dont have time for that
[20:56] <wxl> but you have time to muck around with removing individual packages?
[20:56] <suitefoot29> no, that was ur suggestion
[20:57] <gde33> wxl: I'm trying different oses atm but if you have an idea how to get SiS M661MX video working (acer travelmate 2310) in 1024 resolution rather than 640 I'm all ears. (The live usb works in 1024)
[20:57] <wxl> gde33: need the pci id.
[20:57] <suitefoot29> gde33: what is the graphic chip in it
[20:57] <gde33> I thought that was the sism661mx
[20:58] <gde33> where shall I find further information?
[20:58] <wxl> gde33: lspci -nnk | grep -A 3 VGA
[20:58] <gde33> k
[20:58] <suitefoot29> if it's via, it may only work with debian 7
[20:59] <suitefoot29> i have a laptop like that and anything deb/ubuntu after that wont render
[20:59] <suitefoot29> deb 7 lxde, supported to 2018
[21:06] <gde33> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] 661/741/760 PCI/AGP or 66/761Gx PCIE VGA Display Adapter [1039:6330] Subsystem:Acer Incorporated [ALI] 661/741/760 PCI/AGP or 662/761Gx PCIE VGA Display Adapter [1025:008] Kernel modules:sisfb
[21:08] <wxl> gde33: here's sisfb's docs which may be useful https://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/fb/sisfb.txt
[21:10] <wxl> what version of lubuntu, gde33? (lsb_release -a)
[21:15] <suitefoot29> gde33: that's via. only debian 7 live will work on it. nothing later, in terms of graphic support resolution
[21:15] <gde33> wxl: currently non, which should I try next?
[21:15] <suitefoot29> i tried deb 8 and ubuntu and arch on it
[21:16] <suitefoot29> u can try lxde
[21:16] <gde33> suitefoot29: great, yes I was trying lxle but it fails
[21:16] <suitefoot29> the live one off usb, to see if it boots up properly
[21:16] <suitefoot29> or u can install regular one
[21:17] <gde33> the live versions of lubuntu and lxle work just fine
[21:17] <suitefoot29> good job
[21:17] <gde33> with the right resolution
[21:17] <wxl> then grabbing the new drivers should solve the problem
[21:18] <gde33> wxl: just running update and upgrade didn't work, should I perhaps skip the propriatary stuff?
[21:18] <suitefoot29> should
[21:18] <wxl> gde33: not that
[21:18] <wxl> http://askubuntu.com/questions/47506/how-do-i-install-additional-drivers
[21:20] <gde33> I tried finding new drivers from the software center > ppa page via some short cut, would that boil down to the same check?
[21:20] <wxl> nope
[21:20] <wxl> a ppa is, generally, an unsupported mechanism of obtaining software
[21:21] <gde33> ill remake the lubuntu usb, will take a bit
[21:47] <ornj> might I want startlubuntu instead of startlxde ?
[21:47] <wxl> don't believe so
[21:48] <wxl> in precise there was a startlubuntu
[21:48] <ornj> ok
[21:48] <ornj> so startlxde shoudl include all lubuntu theming, etc.?
[21:48] <wxl> not since
[21:48] <wxl> *should*
[21:48] <wxl> but again, you're a bit on your own with the whole thing
[21:48] <ornj> grazie, signiore
[21:49] <ornj> haha great
[21:49] <wxl> well it's just a bit outside of the norm
[21:49] <wxl> i've never done this before and i doubt anyone else has
[21:49] <wxl> it's not like it's one of the goals of the lubuntu project :)
[21:54] <lynorian> Yeah I have never really set this up myself either
[21:56] <ornj> disabling a dm is that uncommon?
[21:56] <ornj> is that what we're referring to?
[21:57] <wxl> yes
[21:57] <lynorian> yes
[21:57] <ornj> oh
[21:58] <ornj> :/
[21:58]  * ornj weird nerd
[23:05] <gde33> lol this is going so fast! I'm already running the installer now :P
[23:05] <gde33> everything imaginable went wrong
[23:07] <gde33> I make an ubuntu 16 live usb which was aweful, the ui doesn't work in 640 resolution at all, no wifi, no way to do driver updates
[23:07] <gde33> now I'm back to installing lubuntu
[23:24] <gde33> wxl: aditional drivers in the latest ubuntu brings up software & updates
[23:24] <gde33> wxl: same in lubuntu


[00:53] <_Sponge> ~Is this happening, in 5 minutes ?
[00:53] <_Sponge> [It's very early here]
[00:57] <_Sponge> 
[01:01] <_Sponge> Where's the bloody Community Q&A ?
[01:04] <_Sponge> mhall119: ping.
[01:04] <_Sponge> balloons: ping
[01:05] <_Sponge> pleia2: ping.
[15:23] <elijah> What is the presenters name here? https://youtu.be/_2lotZ6CyVY
[15:23] <elijah> It should say in the description
[15:24] <elijah> Also, the max resolution when embedded here, http://ubuntuonair.com/, is 480p. If you click through to YouTube, the max is 720p.
[15:24] <elijah> We should get that fixed.


[07:18] <RAOF> Sarvatt: Yes, I have xcb patches*
[07:18] <RAOF> *: However, xcb doesn't have fixesproto v5 yet, and due to some problem somewhere the xcb-generated bindings send a non-empty Devices array, running into the unfinished parts of fixes v5, and so creating a barrier always generates BadImplementation.
[15:32] <FernandoMiguel> guud afternoon
[20:08] <mdeslaur> wow, the nvidia binary driver sure is borked in precise
[20:25] <ricotz> mdeslaur, how?
[20:26] <mdeslaur> ricotz: switching between users gives screen corruption, suspend and resume is flaky, I either get a blank screen with a flashing cursor, or the unity launcher is corrupted, etc.
[20:27] <ricotz> mdeslaur, yeah, it is like switching ttys ;), dont do it
[20:27] <ricotz> :P
[20:27] <mdeslaur> hehe
[22:31] <metasansana> Is it possible to drag windows across separate X screens?
[22:34] <RAOF> It depends on what you mean by separate X screens.
[22:34] <jcristau> if he means separate X screens, then no it's not.
[22:36] <metasansana> I have to separate nvidia gf cards
[22:36] <metasansana> on board and pci
[22:37] <metasansana> I can select Seperate X screen in the NVIDIA X Server settings
[22:37] <RAOF> And, in order to use both, you need to set them up as “Separate X screens”.  I *believe* that this will set up a Xinerama configuration, which will allow you to move windows between your displays.
[22:37] <metasansana> RAOF: they just mirror each other
[22:37] <RAOF> Then set them to not mirror.
[22:37] <metasansana> I tried setting Clone "0" but in the ServerLayout but they still mirror
[22:37] <RAOF> Unless that's what you want, of course :)
[22:38] <metasansana> Its definitely not what I want
[22:39] <RAOF> nvidia-settings should be able to set it up how you want, but I've not played with those settings.
[22:40] <metasansana> :(
[22:46] <metasansana> thanks RAOF
[22:47] <RAOF> It *should* be possible to do what you want, but I've not done it myself.
[22:48] <metasansana> I found some more info on nvidia's website


[06:05] <aamir_> hi, any one can tell me the ONLINE MEETING SOLUTION, teamviewer hangs a lot, and screen sharing stop working.  I am on 12.04
[10:57] <BluesKaj> Hey all
[11:02] <Ravior> Anyone else gets this error when you check for updates?
[11:02] <Ravior> http://pastebin.com/2e5k7m16
[11:03] <ikonia> Ravior: well, you have a PPA there that the key has changed on
[11:04] <ikonia> you also have both 32 and 64bit repos enabled
[11:04] <ikonia> looks a bit of a mess
[11:04] <Ravior> It is.
[11:04] <ikonia> why is your machine in this mess ?
[11:04] <ikonia> and you're running a pre-releae build.
[11:04] <ikonia> doesn't seem like a good idea
[11:04] <Ravior> I upgraded my OS since 11.04 till now
[11:05] <ikonia> Ravior: upgrading your OS won't enable PPA's and enable 32 AND 64bit repos
[11:05] <ikonia> that's something you will have had to do
[11:05] <ikonia> it doesn't just happen
[11:05] <ikonia> I'd also suggest you may have a networking/dns issue
[11:05] <ikonia> but that's only a guess
[11:05] <Ravior> My network works fine
[11:06] <ikonia> well, your machine certainly doesn't
[11:06] <ikonia> I'd do a clean 12.10 install if you want to test 12.10 as it's current repo list suggests it will be a bomb
[11:06] <ikonia> the extras repo shouldn't be a concern for 12.10 though as that doesn't exist on that URL
[11:24] <BluesKaj> had to put unity DE on my pc ...kde is totally borked ...might have to reinstall the OS to /
[11:25] <ikonia> BluesKaj: due to an update or just a problem with the current packge ?
[11:25] <BluesKaj> update did it in , ikonia
[11:26] <BluesKaj> I shouldn't have dist-upgraded
[11:26] <ikonia> well, these things happen at this stage in the cycle
[11:29] <BluesKaj> yup ... thought i'd mention it tho ...it's a kubuntu multimedia-kio-(something).dependency error ..forgotten the string
[11:30] <BluesKaj> don't feel like rebooting to reproduce the error ,atm
[11:32] <BluesKaj> too early here and I'm still enjoying my morning coffee :)
[11:37] <BluesKaj> I can live with unity for a while ...kind of cool how the panel integrates with whatever app is being used, especially browsers
[11:39] <BluesKaj> not crazy about the side panel launchers tho
[16:27] <BluesKaj> the terminal prompt insists on opening at ~/Documents
[16:28] <BluesKaj> also having a dependency prob in 4.8.80, ffmpeg and libav-tools depends are in the vicious cycle = dependency hell :/
[16:29] <BluesKaj> kde 4.8.80 that is'
[16:29] <BluesKaj> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1037423/
[18:09] <wilee-nilee> So anyone having the return to a desktop from the top left corner in gnome 3 option not happening. I can do a alt-f2-r restart of gnome 3 to get it back is all
[19:12] <FernandoMiguel> hi
[20:52] <BluesKaj> hey what's with the default terminal prompt ? "userj@ubuntu-pc:~/Documents$ ".....what's with it opening in ~/Documents ?
[22:40] <imnichol> Does running "update-manager -d" work yet to upgrade to quantal?
[22:42] <Daekdroom> I believe it does because Alpha 1 has been released already.
[22:44] <Daekdroom> Although it won't tell you there's a development version if it's set to only upgrade to LTS releases in software-properties-gtk
[22:54] <imnichol> Daekdroom, thanks, that was it.
[22:55] <paulo_gomes> is there something like jupiter for 12.10?


[15:17] <sadmac2> Keybuk: had a question about dependency behavior
[15:18] <Keybuk> sure
[15:18] <sadmac2> Keybuk: ok, so we want to start all possible services for a given set of states.
[15:18] <sadmac2> if service X depends on session, we start one per session
[15:19] <sadmac2> this is good
[15:19] <sadmac2> the easy way to do this is to scan the list of active states for each dependency of a state, and then take each combination of the results and make sure there's a service running for it
[15:20] <sadmac2> now, suppose we have a Session state, and a service G which depends solely on the Session state and auto-starts
[15:20] <sadmac2> so if we have user A and B logged in, they each have a service G
[15:21] <sadmac2> now, what if we start up a service C that depends on the Session state and on service G?
[15:21] <sadmac2> We get 4 copies of service C
[15:21] <sadmac2> One for your session/your service G, one for your neighbor's session and service G
[15:21] <sadmac2> one for your session and your neighbor's service G, and one for your service G and your neigbor's session'
[15:22] <sadmac2> Keybuk: I can fix this behavior a couple ways. what's the right way to behave though?
[15:41] <ssalevan> ahh, greetings, sirs
[15:42] <sadmac2> Steve-O!
[15:42] <ssalevan> it is I.  what is up?
[15:43] <sadmac2> we were discussing some depsolving behaviors
[15:43] <ssalevan> related to depsolving dependent services?
[15:43] <Keybuk> sadmac2: sounds like some intelligence required there
[15:44] <sadmac2> ssalevan: yes
[15:44] <Keybuk> since neighbour's service G and our session are theoretically not compatible
[15:44] <sadmac2> Keybuk: well, the dumb solution is to match the parameter out of G. so you say when session and G($session_id)
[15:45] <sadmac2> Keybuk: but why bug the user with that when the typical behavior is probably never right?
[15:45] <Keybuk> it should do the right thing
[15:46] <sadmac2> Keybuk: what I have now is this "rooting" check. Basically any set of dependencies of any state cannot depend on anything outside that set iff something inside the set will meet the same dep
[15:46] <Keybuk> that sounds like it would dtrt
[15:46] <sadmac2> yeah, that's what I thought


[08:55] <sirriffsalot> Does the microKORG have any software-support in ubuntustudio?
[11:18] <sakrecoer> sirriffsalot: not that i know, except for midi of course... the new ones have usb?
[11:18] <sirriffsalot> sakrecoer, sure do
[11:20] <sakrecoer> sirriffsalot: i'd be disapointed if it wasn't wasn't recognized as a midi-device.
[11:21] <sakrecoer> if you are looking for a specific editor to run under GNU/Linux, you should write to korg. they have shown to be rather linux friendly in the past :)
[11:22] <sakrecoer> sirriffsalot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korg_OASYS
[11:27] <sirriffsalot> sakrecoer, if I have to write to them that'd be ages until one surfaced anyway
[11:28] <sirriffsalot> Huh
[11:28] <sirriffsalot> sakrecoer, interesting
[11:28] <sirriffsalot> But I can't really invest in another synth :P
[11:29] <sirriffsalot> http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Autism honestly this is some of the funniest stuff I've read in a long time
[11:29] <sakrecoer> sirriffsalot: that was just to illustrate their interest. That synths linux part is realy just a built in DAW running in a custom linux.
[11:30] <sirriffsalot> Yeah, I got it :) Pretty neat
[11:31] <sakrecoer> sirriffsalot: are you planning on buying a microkorg?
[11:31] <sirriffsalot> sakrecoer, already did, haha
[11:32] <sirriffsalot> sakrecoer, I got 500e for free from a "free-fund" foundation here in Norway
[11:32] <sakrecoer> sirriffsalot: what os are you running?
[11:32] <sakrecoer> i mean linux distro
[11:32] <sirriffsalot> We felt we needed a synth, so now I'm tweaking away
[11:32] <sirriffsalot> Ubuntustudio mostly
[11:32] <sakrecoer> well... why don't you plug it in and check?
[11:33] <sakrecoer> i am assuming the usb-port can be used for audio aswell? i for one would be happy to know if it is recognized...
[11:33] <sakrecoer> ^sirriffsalot
[11:34] <sirriffsalot> sakrecoer, I'll try later, but what I wanted to know whas if the software for the korg has any linux support
[11:34] <sirriffsalot> The editors and all that
[11:34] <sakrecoer> hehe, you lazy sirriffsalot you :p
[11:37] <sakrecoer> sirriffsalot: https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=28417
[11:41] <sirriffsalot> sakrecoer, ooh
[11:41] <sirriffsalot> sakrecoer, I guess wine covers everything then..
[11:44] <sakrecoer> sirriffsalot: i'd be disapointed if the korgs physical interface didn't cover everything aswell. if it didn't, i'd be inclined to hook a physical midicontroler to it, or just use a software synth/vocoder
[11:44] <sakrecoer> i'm a bit distrubed by the hardware makers taste for hybrid sillutions...
[11:45] <sirriffsalot> sakrecoer, what do you mean?
[11:46] <sakrecoer> i feel its a hype thing. and it maks hardware synths prone to early obsolecence: what if they stopp updating the drivers or the necessary editor? what if they go bankrupt and a new version of OS wont accept the old driver?
[11:47] <sakrecoer> basicaly, by doing that, they can force you to buy the latest rebranding of their hardware synth, by simply stopping to update drivers for it.
[11:47] <sakrecoer> of course, it wouldn't be the case if they provided opensource stuff, but they mostly don't
[11:47] <sakrecoer> ^ sirriffsalot
[11:48] <sakrecoer> in the particular case of the microkorg, it works perfectly without a computer, so you are safe...
[11:48] <sakrecoer> but some newer HW synth have half their USP in the box..
[11:48] <sirriffsalot> sakrecoer, yeah, I was kinda wondering how this made sense in my case :P But I see your point
[11:49] <sirriffsalot> sakrecoer, are there not certain rules within law as to what extent they can project planned obselesence into their products?
[11:49] <sirriffsalot> Either physical wear-down or software-osbolesence
[11:50] <sakrecoer> sirriffsalot: sure, but its impossible to stipulate regulation that would make consumers fully safe from that. to stop produceing drivers isn't building in planed obsolecence..
[11:50] <sirriffsalot> sakrecoer, no, but that was kinda my point. surely with all the ridiculous solicitor-work that gets done these days, there should be some regulation on such an obvious cash-grab
[11:51] <zequence> Only problem with wine is no usb support (at least last time I checked)
[11:51] <zequence> Midi units need to be controlled with midi
[11:52] <sakrecoer> sirriffsalot: maybe... i'd be happy to read legal code covering that :) i read such texts like others do sudoku :D
[11:52] <zequence> I have a Roland xv-5050 and I can use the editor with it, if I use midi I/O. The midi port works with ALSA midi, but not with wine
[11:53] <sakrecoer> zequence: i have more problems with wine than that :D but i'm done ranting for the day :D
[11:53] <zequence> Sure, there are many other problems with wine, like Java support, etc
[11:54] <zequence> Most things can be fixed by simply adding dll's. I like to use PlayOnLinux to create wine environments
[11:54] <sakrecoer> hehe... i haven't ever tried it. i'd rather install a pirate copy of XP :D
[11:54] <zequence> Why?
[11:54] <zequence> wine is all free software, after all
[11:55] <zequence> Well, not the dll's you add. Those are just "for free", many of them
[11:55] <sakrecoer> is the software you run with wine freesoftware?
[11:55] <sakrecoer> exactly,
[11:55] <zequence> sakrecoer: Yes, but those are not a part of wine
[11:55] <zequence> Those you add, if you have to
[11:55] <sirriffsalot> sakrecoer, please do... keep me posted :D
[11:55] <sakrecoer> thats my point: i don't have to! others may do as they please of course :D
[11:56] <zequence> Anyway, PlayOnLinux is by far the easiest way to manage Windows applications in Linux
[11:56] <zequence> sakrecoer: You only have to, if you want to run an application and it requires a dll that isn't a part of the core wine
[11:56] <zequence> And, not all the dll's you add are non-free
[11:57] <sakrecoer> zequence: yes, and that wont be happening, like, ever, here in fraglerock :D
[11:57] <sakrecoer> fraglerock *studios Uncorporated that is :D
[11:57] <zequence> sakrecoer: You do use non-free drivers on your Linux though. Not much different
[11:58] <zequence> Just different names
[11:58] <sakrecoer> i know, hence i don't need to add to it :D
[11:58] <zequence> There are free applications that will only work in Linux with wine
[11:59] <zequence> It's not one-dimensional, you know
[12:00] <sakrecoer> i know, like i said: anyone is free to do like they want. me personaly, i haven't ever ran in a situation where i couldn't find a FOSS alternative for my music production.
[12:00] <sakrecoer> hence, i never needed to use wine. I'd rather write a motivational email to some free-VST dev to port to linux, then install wine.
[12:00] <zequence> Well, pretty common problem with synth editors (which don't include free software, btw)
[12:01] <zequence> I mean, the synths are neither free software or hardware
[12:01] <sakrecoer> yes, that is what i was telling sirriffsalot above
[12:01] <sakrecoer> its problematic to me, especially since newer hardware are more and more computer dependent.
[12:03] <sakrecoer> zequence: my sollution to it is informed buying, and simply not even considering stuff that won't at least provide a linux version of the editor if the editor is part of the machines USP
[12:04] <sakrecoer> but i regularily send emails to constructors too. :D
[12:05] <sakrecoer> i wish my computer was free hardware too :) so do i wish for my hardware synths. at least, the music i make with them is libre.
[12:17] <zequence> It's a slimy sea, and we are all swimming in it
[12:19] <sakrecoer> :)
[12:20] <zequence> I mean, just try to work with people and now use mp3's, for example
[12:20] <zequence> not*
[12:20] <zequence> That's not free either
[12:21] <zequence> And, to just deepen the discussion. These terms, licenses, etc. It's not like trees grow around them. They are all artificial.
[12:22] <zequence> So, it's all bit loose, no matter which foot you stand on
[12:23] <sakrecoer> i don't understand what you are saying zequence ? what is artificial? and how doesa tree grow around a license?
[12:23] <zequence> Artificial is opposite of natural, right?
[12:23] <zequence> Trees don't know about licenses
[12:23] <zequence> It's all in our heads
[12:24] <zequence> I was being less than literal
[12:24] <sirriffsalot> sakrecoer, I do think the distinction between the artificial from the natural is a very artificial distinction
[12:24] <sakrecoer> oh, right. yeah sure. right is a construct.
[12:24] <sakrecoer> good pont sirriffsalot :D
[12:25] <zequence> People follow rules, if they want to. It's not like rules rule the world, after all.
[12:25] <sakrecoer> very true.
[12:26] <sirriffsalot> sakrecoer, I do so wish it were practical to be totally free software, but as you see even the free software people have polluted it with "open source", to the great despair of stallman himself. Working with other musicians without using mp3 or whatever is just impossible.. you become a whackjob still. Picking one's battles is always the best bet you have
[12:26] <sirriffsalot> sakrecoer, I'm just glad we have the smarter segment of the population working on our stuff, not the other way round ;)
[12:27] <zequence> I think what people who like FLOSS really want is distribution of power, but so often you get a bit of tunnel vision, especially if you're involved in different projects.
[12:27] <sakrecoer> :)
[12:27] <zequence> Non free licenses are a form of oppression
[12:27] <zequence> But, so are many free licenses, in some way
[12:28] <zequence> At least, a bit
[12:29] <zequence> Since software becomes more and more important, it makes sense to do battles on that front, for sure
[12:29] <sakrecoer> of course, the purpose of a licenses is to limit freedom. but it is obviously an necessity in the world we live atm...
[12:29] <zequence> There are couple of licenses that pretty much don't limit anything
[12:29] <zequence> Which means you can put that code in your closed source, and not share
[12:29] <sakrecoer> like sirriffsalot oxymoronic point about artificial/natural... a free license is limiting you from the freedom of making it non-free :D
[12:30] <sakrecoer> haha! yeah, the DWTFYW license :D
[12:30] <sakrecoer> wtfpl :D
[12:30] <sakrecoer> http://www.wtfpl.net/
[12:31] <zequence> The MIT license is pretty permissive too
[12:31] <zequence> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_License
[12:38] <zequence> sirriffsalot: Done any more metal recordings since last time
[12:38] <zequence> ?
[12:42] <sirriffsalot> zequence, kinda, yeah
[12:42] <sirriffsalot> zequence, not as much as working on my calmer stuff though, as the band I'm working in now don
[12:42] <sirriffsalot> don't prefer it that much
[12:42] <sirriffsalot> zequence, how's that album coming along??
[12:44] <zequence> sirriffsalot: I'm working on a new project before I start with that one. Started a blog on it http://zequence.net/preparing-for-the-renegade-project/
[12:45] <zequence> Will post some videos too, and the music will be released with a free license. Also, the ardour project, and all channels will be available as wav files as well
[12:46] <zequence> Kind of dry reading, probably, but I'm not too worried about any audience at this point. Just documenting what I'm doing, basically
[12:46] <zequence> Learned some new important things about compression lately
[12:47] <zequence> sirriffsalot: Try using the Calf mono compressor. It has 4 saved settings. 2 for snare, and 2 for vocals
[12:48] <zequence> I've never seen anyone do it that way, or explain why. And, whenever I've tried quick release, I haven't liked it. But, now, it just makes a lot more sense
[12:48] <zequence> The compressor becomes more like a limiter, really
[12:48] <zequence> And, it changes the way the snare and the kick sounds quite a lot
[12:48] <zequence> So, a good tip there
[12:50] <sirriffsalot> zequence, Getting way ahead of myself there, but I'll keep it in mind :)
[12:50] <zequence> Converting mp3p's to wav atm, btw
[12:51] <sirriffsalot> zequence, what a curse... :P
[12:52] <zequence> Can't import them to ardour otherwise
[12:52] <zequence> audacity chain. Nice tool they have there
[12:54] <sirriffsalot> zequence, yeah it sucks, I wish my sony recorder for rehearsals and jams recorded in ogg or something lol
[12:54] <sirriffsalot> converting hours of mp3... ugh
[12:55] <zequence> another time waster, yes
[13:07] <sirriffsalot> zequence, gonna check it out in my breaks by the way
[13:07] <sirriffsalot> zequence, if you're itching to put drums on something I'd have a ready song for it, not heavy though ^^
[13:22] <sirriffsalot> Can a vocoder be set so you can sing in to the microphone with the normal voice sound while another synth is being used?
[13:22] <sirriffsalot> Be a might shame if it's not possible =(
[13:22] <sirriffsalot> mighty*
[13:36] <zequence> sirriffsalot: YOu mean control the vocals with the synth?
[13:37] <zequence> Or a midi keyboard, is what I mean
[13:40] <sirriffsalot> zequence, nono, I can use the vocoder function already
[13:40] <sirriffsalot> I just wish I could sing with a plain vocal sound with the built-in microphone function WHILE playing another synth
[13:41] <sirriffsalot> I can get a clean normal sound, but it has to be set to that specific function... which strikes me as odd
[13:42] <zequence> If you're talking about a hardware device that you own, I have no idea
[13:45] <sirriffsalot> zequence, hehe ok. The microKORG case you were curious
[15:31] <sirriffsalot> zequence, did you recently boot this website?
[16:54] <zequence> zequence: No, but I haven't used it at all for about 3 years
[18:07] <sirriffsalot> zequence, aha. Later all!