[05:47] <pitti> arges: thanks
[07:12] <caribou> pitti: yes ?
[07:14] <pitti> caribou: I meant I had a question for you in bug 1532789
[08:15] <cking> hi there, stress-ng 0.6.04-1 has been stuck in autopkgtest testing for ppc64el for ~4+ days in  the "Test in progress" state (looking at the update_excuses page). I think it needs some kicking
[09:37] <jamespage> pitti, I think its important that we maintain interim Ubuntu release until the end of their life - one reason being that they are actually the primary source for Ubuntu Cloud Archive pockets, so if we stop maintaining Ubuntu two months prior to eol, then I have to start maintain the same packages directly in the UCA for 2 months extra :-)
[09:38] <jamespage> pitti, crmsh is a bit of exception to that rule as its not in the UCA, however ovs and ceph both are...
[09:38] <jamespage> pitti, for UCA updates, we push through the associated ubuntu release first (on the assumption its still supported)
[09:38] <jamespage> so for OpenStack Liberty UCA, Wily is still the point for entry for updates...
[09:39] <pitti> jamespage: wow, we have production stuff running on wily?
[09:39] <jamespage> pitti, that's not quite what I said
[09:39] <jamespage> pitti, we have production stuff running on trusty based on the packages that are in wily
[09:40] <jamespage> pitti, UCA is just one huge backport
[09:40] <jamespage> :-)
[09:41] <pitti> jamespage: ok, fair enough; I just wanted to ask if all that effort was actually useful, and it does seem to be a major risk for users on actual wily
[09:41] <jamespage> pitti, well for crmsh wily users are completely broken atm
[09:41] <pitti> jamespage: right, so for the crmsh case: who will actually care
[09:42] <jamespage> pitti, I was all up for the 'no one is going to actually use wily for production' but then a load of people commented on that bug...
[09:42] <pitti> jamespage: i. e. who will start using wily for crmsh now that xenial is out
[09:42] <jamespage> thats true now, but was not the case two months ago when I did the updates, testing and upload...
[09:46] <jamespage> pitti, tbh i think people where testing on wily in preparation for xenial
[09:47] <pitti> yeah, that seems plausible
[09:47] <jamespage> pitti, from my perspective, most of the work is already done in terms of time, so I'd rather see it through...
[09:47] <pitti> jamespage: so you want ceph, curtin, maas, openvswitch
[09:47] <jamespage> and be happy stating that we did support wily for 9 months
[09:47] <jamespage> pitti, can't comment on maas and curtin, but yes please to ceph and openvswitch
[09:47] <pitti> jamespage: the verification work of this is going to be substantial too, I suppose
[09:48] <pitti> jamespage: ok, and I guess we bury  crmsh?
[09:48] <jamespage> pitti, for crmsh? no the testing is automated - we know its broken (wily-liberty is currently disabled...)
[09:48] <jamespage> infact the testing is automated for ceph and ovs as well
[09:48] <pitti> jamespage: I mean for ceph, curtin, etc.
[09:48] <jamespage> curtin/maas - defer to server team on that front...
[09:48] <pitti> jamespage: we have automated tests that check that an upgrade from a current wily deployment still works?
[09:49] <pitti> as that's what actually matters
[09:49] <pitti> we know that the new versions by themselves are fine (presumably)
[09:49] <pitti> but we are throwing that at existing users of the wily version
[09:49] <jamespage> pitti, yes
[09:49] <jamespage> deploy/test/upgrade/test
[09:49] <jamespage> basically
[09:51] <jamespage> pitti, I stand corrected - that's not fully automated, but is a cycle we go through for SRU's
[09:51] <jamespage> but its still not resource intensive
[11:27] <arges> pitti: i'm trying to understand your comment on the wily SRU review queue. isn't wily supported until july?
[11:28] <pitti> arges: it is, yes
[11:28] <pitti> arges: and we shuold certainly continue to supply major bug fixes
[11:28] <pitti> arges: but I wonder if "update a server package to a major new release" makes sense at this point
[11:28] <pitti> the testing and risk by far outweigh the benefit IMHO
[11:29] <pitti> arges: that said, see backscroll from jamespage a few lines up
[11:29] <arges> pitti: fwiw some of the server packages go into wily then into cloud archive
[11:29] <pitti> yes, he pointed that out
[11:29] <pitti> so accepting these is fine
[11:29] <pitti> arges: but I think we should bury crmsh
[11:29] <arges> oh ok : ) yea i need to increase scrollback on weechat
[11:30] <arges> yea that seems like a bit jump anyway
[13:48] <Odd_Bloke> infinity: I see you've commented again on https://code.launchpad.net/~daniel-thewatkins/livecd-rootfs/enable-backports/+merge/295059; have you had a chance to re-review it fully?
[13:49] <Odd_Bloke> infinity: Oh, I see you're not working; don't worry about it!
[13:49] <infinity> Odd_Bloke: Nah, I'm still off work until tomorrow, that was just a side comment to ogra's comment.
[13:49] <infinity> Odd_Bloke: I'll get you all reviewed and merged tomorrow (or later today if this whole laying around on drugs thing threatens my sanity).
[13:49] <Odd_Bloke> infinity: Cool, thanks!
[13:50] <Odd_Bloke> infinity: Enjoy your stupor!
[13:50] <infinity> Odd_Bloke: Once this is tested and proven, is the intent to backport to xenial for 16.04.1?
[13:50] <infinity> (and maybe trusty too, though meh...)
[13:50] <ogra_> lol
[13:50] <Odd_Bloke> infinity: Yeah, definitely for xenial.
[13:50] <ogra_> 2011 ?
[13:50] <ogra_> woah
[13:51] <infinity> ogra_: Yeah, it's okay, I was as surprised as you.  Old people don't deal well with change.
[13:51] <ogra_> lol, yeah
[13:52] <infinity> Odd_Bloke: Kay.  Let's make sure that ball gets rolling as soon as this is landed in yakkety and a few builds appear to produce sane results.
[13:53] <infinity> Odd_Bloke: For now, I'm high on Oxy and going to movie myself to sleep.
[14:03] <ogra_> "oxi brings movies to your sleep" :)


[22:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4421 Publish failed: Diff missing
[23:02] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4421 Proposed pocket


[07:06] <dholbach> good morning
[07:39] <dholbach> salut davidcalle
[07:40] <dholbach> davidcalle, the import looks like it worked - at least the page security page (jdstrand was referring to it yesterday) is now up to date
[07:40] <dholbach> davidcalle, the only thing is the build-apps landing page (minor issue), how did we resolve that on staging?
[07:40] <dholbach> davidcalle, https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snappy-dev-website/issues/2 is fixed too
[12:01] <davidcalle> dholbach: hey o/
[12:02] <davidcalle> dholbach: as far as I can see, the importer isn't working: https://developer.ubuntu.com/admin/md_importer/importedarticle/ is empty and https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/guides/interfaces is missing the opengl interface
[12:55] <davidcalle> dholbach: do you think the importer is passing the hero tour through the usual md cleanup? eg. eight-col for text, twelve-col for code
[12:55] <davidcalle> Because that could be the issue with the layout being skewed
[12:58] <dholbach> davidcalle, the latter I need to check, it might
[12:58] <dholbach> davidcalle, do we have logs for the importer on production too?
[12:58] <davidcalle> dholbach: I'm writing the rt for getting them
[12:59] <dholbach> davidcalle, do we need an RT for something like that, or can we just ping in #webops?
[13:01] <davidcalle> dholbach: I've pinged, but I'll get a rt ready to send just in case :)
[13:02] <dholbach> ok
[13:02] <dholbach> thanks a lot davidcalle
[13:25] <davidcalle> "There is no South database module 'south.db.postgresql_psycopg2' for your database. Please either choose a supported database, check for SOUTH_DATABASE_ADAPTER[S] settings, or remove South from INSTALLED_APPS." is the only things in logs for the md importer and the gadget list importer
[13:25] <davidcalle> o_O
[13:25] <davidcalle> dholbach: ^
[13:26] <dholbach> is that a recent entry?
[13:26] <davidcalle> Today
[13:26] <dholbach> or is it back from when we moved to a new django?
[13:26] <dholbach> bizarre
[13:27] <dholbach> because we shouldn't be using South any more
[13:27] <davidcalle> Yeah, and it's not in settings.py on prod, just checked
[13:29] <dholbach> and they don't have another local settings.py or something?
[13:29] <dholbach> oh... South is still in the dependencies branch
[13:30] <dholbach> maybe it gets loaded somehow
[13:30] <dholbach> or there's still a .pyc lying around?
[13:32] <davidcalle> dholbach: the charm overrides some values of settings.py, but nothing related to installed apps. Maybe a .pyc around, yes.
[13:33] <dholbach> shall I update the dep branch to remove South?
[13:34] <dholbach> I know that moving from south to django migrations (as part of 1.7 or whatever it was), you had to remove all migrations/*.pyc files
[13:34] <dholbach> I'm wondering if it's something similar
[13:38] <davidcalle> dholbach: yeah, look at #webops for where we stand, I've asked for the removal of these, but I'm not sure how to restart the site after. Spads is looking into it.
[13:39] <dholbach> cool
[13:40] <dholbach> I don't know for sure either :-/
[14:05] <davidcalle> dholbach: ok, so not a pyc issue, looks like you were right: just having south installed can cause issues (http://stackoverflow.com/questions/29647602/there-is-no-south-database-module-south-db-postgresql-psycopg2-for-your-databa).
[14:05] <dholbach> wow
[14:05] <dholbach> ok, let's delete it then! :)
[14:05]  * davidcalle underlines the already existing mental note in red: "Always listen to dholbach"
[14:06] <davidcalle> dholbach: Spads is removing it from prod to test
[14:06] <dholbach> http://herbookthoughts.reads-it.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/d6a1143f571184db25f94613edd43b40af6d3a629221aba00d9efdcfef5efd84.jpg
[14:06] <dholbach> I'll update the deps branch
[14:51] <davidcalle> dholbach: I'll start with snappy guides/
[14:52] <dholbach> ok, I'll do build-apps
[14:52] <dholbach> and turn off the automatic improts
[14:52] <dholbach> imports
[14:54] <dholbach> the nice thing is, you can copy over stuff from a local import :)
[14:54] <dholbach> and upstream says about running 'cms' 'fix-tree' after an import:
 dholbach: depends how confident/suspicious you are!
 one would hope these trees can manage themselves properly
[14:56] <davidcalle> dholbach: oh wait, looks like pages are just not published!
[14:56] <dholbach> what what(?)
[14:57] <dholbach> maybe we would have just needed for the command to pass?
[14:59] <dholbach> davidcalle, are you publishing them all now?
[14:59] <davidcalle> dholbach: hmm, maybe I was wrong, I can see some of them, eg. the guides landing page
[15:00] <dholbach> so maybe it was in the middle of some operation
[15:00] <dholbach> davidcalle, do you think it makes sense to run the script again with a crazy huge timeout?
[15:02] <davidcalle> dholbach: maybe, but let's plan this with a RT, so we ask for a backup, a page check, then for the backup to be injected in cas of failure
[15:03] <davidcalle> dholbach: I would request it today, does it work for you?
[15:03] <davidcalle> dholbach: I don't want the doc to be offline for too long
[15:04] <dholbach> sure
[15:05] <dholbach> davidcalle, we're in the team call already, chatting
[15:05] <davidcalle> dholbach: joining in a sec
[15:06] <dholbach> cool
[15:39] <dholbach> davidcalle, https://code.launchpad.net/~dholbach/developer-ubuntu-com/more-and-faster-imports/+merge/293137 ready for staging
[15:39] <dholbach> test suite is still running with the changes of the branch, but from my gut feeling it should be fine
[15:39] <davidcalle> Done with /guides
[15:40] <dholbach> I lost track somewhat
[15:40] <dholbach> let me resume my work there :)
[15:48] <dholbach> davidcalle, I'll fix snappy/build-apps* before I EOD
[15:48] <dholbach> working on it now
[15:48] <davidcalle> dholbach: if you need to run, I can pick it up
[15:49] <dholbach> no worries
[15:49] <dholbach> I'll do it
[15:51] <davidcalle> ack
[15:55] <davidcalle> dholbach: the vpn is giving me trouble to log in, I'll push your branch on staging when I'm home
[15:55] <dholbach> no worries
[15:55] <dholbach> and thanks a lot
[15:58] <dholbach> davidcalle, done
[15:58] <dholbach> I'm calling it a day now
[15:59] <davidcalle> dholbach: thanks! Enjoy the evening :)
[15:59] <dholbach> you too! :)
[15:59] <dholbach> and thanks for all your help!
[16:00] <davidcalle> np!


[09:35] <LarsErikP> coreycb: ref https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-archive/+bug/1866361 am I doing something wrong? I fail to find 0.27.0 in stein-proposed..
[11:59] <coreycb> LarsErikP: thanks for letting me know. there was a build issue. I'm retrying now.
[12:00] <LarsErikP> coreycb: \o/
[14:13] <LarsErikP> coreycb: tested now. it works :)
[14:14] <coreycb> LarsErikP: great, thanks. we'll get regression testing done soon on our end. can you update the bug to mention it's fixed for you? fyi it needs to remain there for min 7 days before promotion
[14:15] <LarsErikP> coreycb: already done :)
[14:15] <coreycb> LarsErikP: thanks :)
[14:16] <LarsErikP> thanks for handling this so quickly, and being so helpful :) I really appreciate it!
[14:26] <halvors> I need a hids for my ubuntu servers, seems aide is pretty minimalistic as a hids, but maybe in combination with chkrootkit and another utility that looks at logs?
[14:26] <halvors> Any ideas on a utility for that?
[14:28] <sdeziel> halvors: there is auditd that you might want to look into
[14:28] <sdeziel> for log monitoring I use logcheck but be ready to write a lot of regexes to silence all the unimportant noise you'll get
[14:45] <halvors> sdeziel: thanks
[15:03] <halvors> auditd vs logcheck what is the difference between them?
[15:04] <sdeziel> they are very different, logcheck is going over your logs and removing the noise (what matches regexes of unimportant log entries)
[15:04] <sdeziel> logcheck then extract the "signal" which is everything that was not silenced by the regexes of unimportant stuff
[15:05] <sdeziel> that signal can be noisy because the base ruleset shipped by logcheck is not very up to date which is why you will need to write a lot of regexes to build a ruleset that matches your environment
[15:06] <sdeziel> once done, you'll get a good signal from logcheck
[15:06] <halvors> what does auditd do compared to logcheck then? is it not the same?
[15:07] <sdeziel> logcheck runs on reboots and every hours and send you an email with the important logs that happened since the last notification
[15:07] <sdeziel> auditd is like a blackbox recorder of a plane
[15:08] <sdeziel> it can be configured to record/log every syscal ran, their args, who ran them, etc
[15:08] <sdeziel> this allows you to track most actions taking place on your machine
[15:08] <halvors> i see, so auditd is more to investigate a breach?
[15:09] <sdeziel> you could use it for that or also to catch anomalies
[15:09] <sdeziel> (logcheck is also good to catch anomalies but only when they show up in logs it checks..)
[15:12] <halvors> sdeziel: thanks, i have another question as well, is there a good solution for active response rules, or is this a job for fail2ban?
[15:12] <halvors> Are there other solutions like fail2ban that is better?
[15:13] <sdeziel> halvors: suricata and snort can run in IPS mode where they typically inject firewall rules whenever a condition matches
[15:14] <halvors> sdeziel: On the host itself not the firewall?
[15:14] <sdeziel> halvors: the host itself has firewalling capabilities
[15:14] <halvors> yes
[15:15] <sdeziel> a bit like what fail2ban does
[15:15] <halvors> thanks :) fail2ban is more to make it harder to gain access in the first place?
[15:16] <sdeziel> halvors: fail2ban can protect many services, which one do you want to protect in your case?
[15:17] <halvors> sdeziel: it's basically a task assignment at school, they recommend ossec but i like to go more into detail and provide the same functionality by using more simple but multiplie tools that is easier to understand and maintain.
[15:20] <sdeziel> halvors: I've heard about ossec but know very little about it so I can't make recommendations on simpler alternatives :/
[15:20] <halvors> sdeziel: i see, ossec seems bloated to me (there is windows rule definitions on the linux version)
[15:52] <lordcirth> I have an LXC container which seems hung - lxc-ls and lxc-attach hang. No errors in dmesg. Any debugging tips?
[15:52] <lordcirth> 16.04 guest and host
[21:37] <halvors> How to exclude directories (and their subdirectories and files) from being include in aide scan?
[21:45] <sdeziel> halvors: IIRC, it was with a rule like that: !/path/to/my/dir
[22:18] <halvors> thx


[13:57] <dan01> hi
[13:57] <dan01> If I install 21.10 on my laptop and keep updating it
[13:57] <dan01> will I end with the final release?
[13:57] <Mekaneck> yes
[13:57] <dan01> thanks
[13:57] <dan01> Mekaneck: Is ZFS recommended for SSD?
[13:58] <Mekaneck> that i don't know


[00:04] <casey__> Hi, all. I have an issue with Discover taking an absurdly long time to load up when I launch it. The window is unresponsive for about 2 minutes when it opens.
[05:10] <aiena> I have a problem. I just added "Arabic" as a language in the KDE "Language" settings. Now if I run "apt-get update" it runs in arabic
[05:10] <aiena> some env var changed how to fix?
[05:11] <aiena> I think LANGUAGE=en_US:ar was set and "ar" is used as it is second language
[05:12] <aiena> actually let me try something brb
[06:11] <lordievader> Good morning
[11:01] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[12:18] <kyogre> hello
[12:18] <diogenes_> hello
[14:30] <Paddy_NI> Hello I have Kubuntu 18.04 installed using the "minimal" install option.  I am trying to have my google contacts sync using kaddressbook, so far I have installed kmail, kaddressbook and for good measure I installed Kontact.  I still have no option to add the akonadi Google resource. Would anyone know what I am missing?
[14:32] <Paddy_NI> I also added my Google Account to "Online Accounts" which gave me Google Drive access and "Youtube" which I have no idea about what it actually provides.  The google drive integration is very nice however :-)
[14:51] <TomTom> Paddy_NI: here "akonadi_googlecontacts_resource" is part of kdepim-runtime
[15:04] <Paddy_NI> TomTom: Oh cool I'll give that a go :-)
[15:04] <Paddy_NI> Thank you
[15:05] <Paddy_NI> Already the newest version apparently
[15:05] <Paddy_NI> :-(
[15:07] <Paddy_NI> TomTom: I think I got it, via Akonadi-Console
[15:12] <TomTom> Paddy_NI: when i say "add new addressbook" i get  a list of different sources and one of them is google contacts
[15:21] <Paddy_NI> I don't,  I had to use akonadi console. it's working now though :-)
[16:43] <pseudochaos> This place is always going.  I'm surprised at the lurker ratio.
[16:43] <pseudochaos> Or is this the control channel for a botnet or something?
[16:43] <pseudochaos> ya'll better not DDoS fox news!  That would be terrible.
[16:44] <pseudochaos> ;-)
[16:44] <mpmc> pseudochaos: Instructions received, initialising DDoS..
[16:47] <hateball> :o
[17:28] <pseudochaos> Fox news is down!  holy crap!
[17:28] <pseudochaos> lol  j/k
[17:29] <pseudochaos> What do you guys (and gals?) think about One American News?  Which side do they belong to?
[17:31] <genii> That's not a Kubuntu support question
[17:33] <phoenix_firebrd> pseudochaos: Fox news is up in #kubuntu-offtopic, check it out
[17:35] <pseudochaos> lol  whoops
[17:35] <pseudochaos> Which distrobution of wine works the best for emulated windows gaming?
[17:36] <phoenix_firebrd> pseudochaos: crossover
[17:36] <phoenix_firebrd> pseudochaos: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CrossOver_(software)
[17:38] <pseudochaos> Much obliged  :-)
[17:40] <pseudochaos> Wait, if I'm reading this right, CrossOver is a whole new flavor of linux.  I'm looking for something compatible with Kubuntu.
[17:41] <pseudochaos> I'm gonna try PlayOnLinux
[17:42] <phoenix_firebrd> pseudochaos: ok
[17:58] <genii> !yahoo
[18:03] <phoenix_firebrd> nice
[18:03] <phoenix_firebrd> genii: is empathy a gtk application?
[18:04] <genii> I believe so
[18:05] <phoenix_firebrd> genii: do you have gnome account to report bug?
[18:06] <genii> Yahoo Messenger shutting down is a bug now? ;)
[18:07] <phoenix_firebrd> ya :)
[18:08] <phoenix_firebrd> genii: it might create unrest if left enabled
[18:15] <genii> Dammit
[18:15] <genii> wrong url
[18:15] <genii> That's my ec-gf's cat
[18:17] <phoenix_firebrd> :'D
[18:24] <genii> phoenix_firebrd: Just used my Google login to report the issue. https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/empathy/issues/911
[18:25] <phoenix_firebrd> genii: thank you so much
[18:25] <phoenix_firebrd> I never knew that they allow signing in using a google account
[18:26] <genii> There are a bunch of other IM apps but in *buntu mostly Empathy and Telepathy.
[18:28] <phoenix_firebrd> ya
[18:29] <phoenix_firebrd> These are the major ones that I have used
[19:09] <Mrokii> I have a problem with a usb-stick. There are three partitions on it and I tried to delete one of the partitions with KDE manager. It tells me that the operation was applied successfully, but the usb stick doesn't seem to be changed. The "deleted" partition is still there when I plug the stick back in.
[19:09] <Mrokii> Any thoughts what could go wrong?
[19:13] <Mrokii> I think I just found the solution. I forgot to unmount the affected partition first. That seemed to do the trick
[19:17] <Mrokii> *sigh* Or not...
[19:22] <Mrokii> J
[19:29] <seru> I've had a weird bug since yesterday, neither the password to my user account nor the root password work anymore (I didn't change them). It's most likely due to a package update I think but I am just guessing because I'm a noob. Can someone help me? I don't know how passwords would just change themselves. I'm the only one using this computer so the odds of someone changing it is basically zero.
[19:29] <seru> Unless I'm hacked
[19:29] <m29111963> como hago para instalar algo bajo windows
[19:30] <m29111963> un explorador
[19:32] <m29111963> no  se linux
[20:45] <viktor> Hey, I'm trying to update to plasma 5.13 but after adding the backports repo I only managed to update to 5.12.5 (from 5.12.4)
[20:45] <viktor> I'm running kubuntu 18.04
[20:48] <acheronuk> viktor: it requires new Qt backported from 18.10 (which hasn't got it yet), so it may be a while
[20:49] <viktor> okay, will try again in couple of days, thanks ^_^


[08:38] <airurando> mornin'
[08:49] <AndrewMcC> morning!
[08:50] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:50] <czajkowski> hows folks?
[08:51] <AndrewMcC> A little cold, but otherwise good.
[08:51] <AndrewMcC> You?
[08:57] <airurando> the fire has been set by my wonderful wife and the coal is in.
[08:58] <airurando> the house at least should stay above freezing.
[08:58] <czajkowski> awwwww nice
[08:58] <czajkowski> we have sunshine today
[08:58] <czajkowski> no snow as of yet
[08:58] <czajkowski> but a bitter bitter evil cold chill
[08:59] <airurando> exactly the same here
[08:59] <airurando> wierd
[09:00] <airurando> would love the clouds to stay away so that we might see the commet tonight.
[09:00] <zmoylan> it should be visible next week as well so it increases the chances
[09:01] <airurando> *weird and *comet
[09:01] <airurando> I thought best viewing was over the next couple of days.
[09:10] <zmoylan> http://earthsky.org/space/comet-panstarrs-possibly-visible-to-eye-in-march-2013
[09:11] <zmoylan> the moon will interfere with the view but it may still be visible
[09:11] <czajkowski> oh interesting
[09:12] <zmoylan> so break out the binoculars and give it a watch.  and never use them any where near the sun!
[09:14] <airurando> and of course if you can go somewhere with low levels of light polution in would help.
[09:16] <slashbel> aye, we're planning a ride out to wicklow gap armed with ebel's telescope on a clear summer's day
[09:17] <zmoylan> the current comet won't be visible then slashbel
[09:18] <zmoylan> though there is another later in the year
[09:19] <slashbel> aye, but it's too cold to head to wicklow gap
[09:19] <zmoylan> that's why thermos flasks were invented! :-)
[09:19] <slashbel> the roads may be impassable
[09:19] <slashbel> tis part of the point, getting away from civilisation
[09:20] <zmoylan> welcome to ireland were civilisation is only a thin veneer :-)
[09:22] <slashbel> well if you will travel outside the pale…
[09:23] <zmoylan> muck savages all! :-D
[09:23] <airurando> how far out does the pale go?
[09:24] <zmoylan> depends on the year.  at it's smallest dalkey in the south iirc
[09:24] <zmoylan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pale
[09:25] <zmoylan> we'd clawed most of the land back pre queen elisabeth the first
[09:26] <zmoylan> or the invaders had gone native.  more irish than the irish themselves.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statutes_of_Kilkenny
[09:31] <slashbel> although during Elisabeth I reign all the island was under English control (as opposed to British control)
[09:32] <zmoylan> tell that the pirate queen who popped into see qe i.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_O'Malley
[09:33] <slashbel> she went to London to meet Elizabeth I
[09:33] <slashbel> there became an understanding between them
[09:33] <slashbel> we went to see one of her castles near achill, it's tiny and remote
[09:36] <zmoylan> and while it also the time of the flight of the earls there victories gave rise to an expression in england.  can't remember the phrase the storyteller told me but something along the lines of 'better to be hanged as a deserter in england than die like a dog in ireland'
[09:38] <slashbel> describing it as a 'flight' is always a bit unfair, the intention as i understand was to raise an invasion force from the mainland
[09:39] <slashbel> but for political reason that didn't happen
[09:40] <zmoylan> it was the end of brehon law in ireland.  the end of celtic rule.
[09:40] <slashbel> aye
[10:07] <airurando> Is there any thoughts in here on whether or not holding a team irc meeting on a weekend evening would be better than a weekday evening.
[10:07] <airurando> I ask because I got some feedback indicating that a weekend meeting would be better.
[10:08] <zmoylan> i would suspect people would have more plans for the weekend.  though i could be wrong
[10:08] <airurando> zmoylan I agree
[10:08] <airurando> I was surprised to get that feedback
[10:08] <airurando> but thought it better to discuss it further
[10:08] <zmoylan> weddings, mini holidays random events and groups
[10:08] <airurando> pub!!