[17:01] <NoelJB> yofel, yes, but the problem is booting in the first place. I would have to modify my master GRUB partition to do something other than configfile.  I would probably have to configure it to chainload.
[17:01] <Andy80> penguin42: wanna read the output?
[17:01] <ActionParsnip> yofel: its in the repos so you CAN
[17:01]  * tj83 dislikes lilo
[17:01] <penguin42> Andy80: No, I'm no expert on it - but I'd include it in the bug report
[17:01] <yofel> ActionParsnip: yes, but we still need an option that works best for most people
[17:02] <NoelJB> yofel, sda1 == GRUB, sda5-9 == Fedora, Hardy, Intrepid, Jaunty, Karmic.  First boots the menu on GRUB, and then the local GRUB for the selected partition.
[17:02] <yofel> ActionParsnip: I also think that grub2 isn't quite ready for prime time yet, but we still have a month before us
[17:02] <penguin42> Andy80: I suspect it would be best to (if you can) see if there is any commonality between the ones that don't work/do work
[17:02] <Dr_Willis> lets go back to LILO! :)
[17:02] <Dr_Willis> Not....
[17:02] <thiebaude> haha
[17:02] <NoelJB> Dr_Willis, LOL, oh please no.  :-)
[17:02] <Andy80> penguin42: I'll reboot my system for the moment :P
[17:02] <Volkodav> yeah it looks like the worst beta to me I ever tried
[17:02] <Andy80> see ya later
[17:02] <yofel> NoelJB: wow, cool setup ^^, I use VMs for those *g*
[17:02]  * penguin42 toggles boot code in on toggle switches
[17:03] <NoelJB> yofel, eventually, I want to replace GRUB1 with GRUB2 everywhere.  First I need to get there :-)
[17:03] <Volkodav> no sound
[17:03] <NoelJB> yofel, I use VMs, too.  But I also want to work with real hardware.  :-)
[17:03] <Volkodav> even webcam is not recognised which is uvcvideo cam
[17:03] <yofel> true
[17:03] <ActionParsnip> LILO uses BSD license according to wikipedia
[17:03] <ActionParsnip> grub is gpl
[17:03] <thiebaude> am I able to get grub2 i upgraded from 9.04?
[17:03] <NoelJB> yofel, for example, I have a kubuntu VM for testing that, and a Ubuntu 64 bit VM as my build system.  So I do all of my package builds in a VM.
[17:04] <ActionParsnip> thiebaude: install it like you would grub
[17:04] <Dr_Willis> Grub2 tip to rember.. Just like the LILO days.. you MUST rerun update-grub after altering your grub configs...
[17:04] <thiebaude> ActionParsnip, from synaptic?
[17:04] <Dr_Willis> !grub2
[17:04] <Volkodav> it boots in init3 via legacy grub
[17:04] <yofel> NoelJB: really? I just use my real system (I could use a i386 vm though...)
[17:04] <ActionParsnip> Dr_Willis: not if you are hacking --no-floppy out of the grub.conf file after some update adds it (annoying)
[17:05] <NoelJB> yofel, I prefer not to pollute my normal environment with tons of build packages.  Let's me keep a cleaner environment.
[17:05] <yofel> that might be a good point to test vm-builder again *g*
[17:05] <NoelJB> yofel, I use VMware, but yeah.  :-)
[17:05] <Volkodav> I had grub 2 installed in sdb where the legacy grub from jaunty was at install but legacy grub still shows up
[17:06] <yofel> NoelJB: I like kvm best, it's pretty lightweight, fast, but indeed has less features as VMware
[17:06] <bobertdos> !grub2
[17:06] <Volkodav> I added karmic to legacy but it boots in init3 and I have to startx to get X
[17:06] <Volkodav> How do I reinstall grub2 from liveCD
[17:07] <thiebaude> Volkodav, i might just wait on grub2
[17:07] <Dr_Willis> I think that wiki page mentioned above tells you Volkodav
[17:08] <Volkodav> hmm well I am ok with startx system still boots but some many bugs though
[17:08] <NoelJB> yes, but it doesn't tell you what to do when GRUB2 just displays messages about invalid environments entries, won't display a menu, and won't let you boot anymore.
[17:08] <penguin42> Volkodav: Someone was suggesting doing initctl list  when that happens to see what state everything was in
[17:09] <arand> The one thing I dislike about grub is how editing upon boot has become rather complicated, before I used to be able to fiddle about and boot without a menu.lst, now, It's a lit of bits and bobs to keep track of...
[17:10] <Volkodav> This whole new grub2 thing - is it really worth it ? What are ther benefits if any?
[17:10] <NoelJB> arand, but it has more bells, whistles and features!  :-)
[17:10] <lubosz> hi
[17:10] <Volkodav> the old one worked fine and was relatively easy to use edit and config
[17:10] <tgpraveen> Volkodav: well they fixed a few things in the enginneering logic and made it easy to extend with plugins
[17:10] <NoelJB> Volkodav, there are benefits .. but ease of use is lacking ATM.
[17:10] <penguin42> Volkodav: It's more modular so works with efi boot and loads of other things where previously you would have to use something else for efi
[17:10] <lubosz> can i install a persistent karmic on a key drive, without booting the a iso?
[17:10] <lubosz> i dont have any optical drive
[17:10]  * thiebaude installed grub2 time to reboot
[17:11] <Dr_Willis> Volkodav:  read up at te grub homepage.. of course theres benifits.. or else we would all still be using LILO. :)
[17:11] <thiebaude> brb
[17:11] <Volkodav> efi so far sounds as the only benefit to me though
[17:11] <Dr_Willis> lubosz:   what os is on the machine now?
[17:11] <arand> lubosz: usb-creator?
[17:11] <Dr_Willis> lubosz:  you can use unetbootin, or usbcreator to make a bootable flash drive
[17:11] <lubosz> Dr_Willis: win7, osx, jaunty
[17:12] <lubosz> Dr_Willis: yes, but it will contain the live cd afaik, not a persistent os
[17:12] <Dr_Willis> lubosz:  follow the directions at pendrivelinux to make a persistant save file on it
[17:12] <lubosz> i usually just run the ubuntu installer
[17:12] <Dr_Willis> unetbootin does not make a persistant save..  usb-creator or the directions at pendrivelinux can
[17:12] <lubosz> k
[17:12] <Dr_Willis> of course for just an installer flash drive.. you dont really need a persistant save
[17:12] <wekt> What does CouchDB beamer process bring?  I have uninstalled the CPU hungry thing and not noticed loss of functionality.
[17:12] <penguin42> Dr_Willis: Can you actually just partition and do an install on the flash drive?
[17:12] <lubosz> usb-creator makes fat32 partitions, doesnt it?
[17:13] <ajs`> hey has anyone been having wierd ethernet network issues since they upgraded?
[17:13] <arand> But yea, I'm looking for an answer for how to be able to do a _standard_ install to a USB as well, not using any of the liveusb tools... How  can I install karmic from within jaunty?
[17:13] <lubosz> this was the reason i installed jaunty with the real installer on the usb drive, to get ext4
[17:13] <Dr_Willis> penguin42:  you could... but that can cause issues.
[17:13] <lubosz> and much faster boot
[17:13] <shadeslayer> hey with the new upstart mechanism,is there a reduction in boot time? (as compared to alpha 5)
[17:13] <yofel> !details | ajs`
[17:13] <penguin42> ajs`: I had problems where it picked up an ancient /etc/network/interfaces file and switched what it was doing by default
[17:13] <Dr_Willis> Hmm.. hers a neaat way to do network isntalls i saw.. http://www.howtoforge.com/boot-linux-over-http-with-netboot.me
[17:14] <NoelJB> shadeslayer, yes, there should be some.  You might not notice it.  A YMMV item.
[17:14] <ajs`> my network connections seem to lag when first connecting
[17:14] <ajs`> but once data starts transmitting, the speed is fine
[17:14] <arand> Dr_Willis: thing is I don't want to boot the usb stick at all, I want to blast in karmic from a running jaunty...
[17:15] <wekt> wow.  Dr_Willis, you're amazing.  your always here & active.
[17:15] <shadeslayer> NoelJB: oh thanks mate
[17:16] <ActionParsnip> !botsnack | Dr_Willis
[17:16] <NoelJB> arand, it is old, but does  https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/installation-guide/i386/linux-upgrade.html help?
[17:16] <ajs`> also, ive noticed when i do a ping, the xmit time listed is normal (53ms or so) but it takes 2-5 seconds per ping to list
[17:16] <ajs`> and no dropped packets
[17:16] <Dr_Willis> arand:  then you want to look in to 'debootstrap'
[17:16] <vigo> Hello, someone was looking for a Docking app yesterday, there is one in the Software Center and Synaptic and other places now.
[17:16] <Dr_Willis> wekt:  i just had 3 donuts.. :)
[17:16] <tj83> anyone else notice on dual mon, systems the xsplash is displayed on one of two screens? previously they had set to center on combined screen desktop. I was able to modify the /usr/shar/xplash images to achieve logo splash on both screens. anyone have ideas how to achieve this now?
[17:16] <BUGabundo> http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2009/10/02/the-real-firefox/ ;)
[17:17] <penguin42> tj83: Yeh I think I saw that on this mornings boot
[17:17] <Dr_Willis> tj83:  im glad its on one screen and not streatched across both. :) you said youy had it on both like a clone?
[17:17] <penguin42> tj83: I guess it's difficult when the two aren't the same res/size
[17:18] <NoelJB> tj83, I believe that was changed/fixed recently to work as it does now.
[17:18] <tj83> Dr_Willis, i just took the res of each mon, combined to get 3360x1050 create new transparent image with gimp, paste the original images into the new, save as old file name, and then you have on both screens. but this is not the case now
[17:18] <mac_v> BUGabundo: why did you sheer the poor dog ;p
[17:19] <tj83> penguin42, yes i suppose it would be
[17:19]  * BUGabundo points finger to cwillu_
[17:19] <Dr_Willis> tj83:  personally i just remove xsplash. :) but glad you had fun...
[17:19] <vigo> NoelJB: Is it using the iBus path or the SCIM?
[17:19] <arand> Dr_Willis: I tried that, but following https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromLinux#Without%20CD I ended up with something that had no apt-get installed, just a mess really...
[17:19] <NoelJB> vigo, is WHAT using ibus?
[17:20] <vigo> NoelJB: It is a widget for docking stuff, I think, looks very configurable.
[17:20] <thiebaude> i tried to install grub2 but it failed
[17:20] <SirBob1701> Hey guys what nvidia driver do you recommend 180 or 185?  I'm in the root cli trying to figure out because I can't login to gnome...
[17:21] <thiebaude> SirBob1701: i use 185
[17:21] <tj83> using 185 here
[17:21] <ikonia> SirBob1701: it depends which version best supports your card
[17:21] <duffydack> ok, after talking to dtchen lastnight and him telling me my sound issue will never be fixed, he gave me info about a patch for pulseaudio, how do I apply this patch? I did apt-get source pulseaudio and there is a patch called 0090-use-volume-ignore-for-analog-output.patch
[17:21] <SirBob1701> thnks
[17:21] <tj83> hi ikonia long time no see
[17:21] <ikonia> hello there
[17:21] <NoelJB> SirBob1701, 185.16
[17:22] <NoelJB> duffydack, what issue will "never" be fixed?
[17:23] <duffydack> NoelJB, (I should have this in a text file to copy to clipboard) using amplified output... its too loud and also messes up more than 1 channel..
[17:24] <duffydack> I just need to know how to apply the patch
[17:24] <soc> hi
[17:24] <NoelJB> vigo, there are a bunch of docks.  I have no idea which one you're taking about.
[17:24] <soc> i think i just found a bug which could be critical, could anyone look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hplip/+bug/402959
[17:25] <soc> broken dependencies on the live cd
[17:25] <NoelJB> duffydack, I'd have to look at the pulseaudio source package.  do you see a patches/ directory under debian/ ?
[17:25] <yofel> NoelJB: there isn't one
[17:25] <soc> additional libraries needed for fixing that bug: ~7mb
[17:25] <vigo> NoelJB: My hands are still messed up, let me try and find that information for clarity.
[17:25] <duffydack> NoelJB, yes thats where the patch is.
[17:25] <yofel> duffydack: can you pastebin the patch please?
[17:25] <soc> free space on the cd: ~4mb
[17:25] <NoelJB> yofel, why do you say there isn't when duffydack says there is?
[17:25] <penguin42> soc: bzip --99999
[17:26] <penguin42> :-)
[17:26] <duffydack> http://pastebin.com/dda368b7
[17:26] <yofel> NoelJB: my fault, there is one -.-
[17:27] <NoelJB> duffydack, THAT?  That looks like a patch to a config file!   find it in your system, and just make the change locally.  no need to build.
[17:27] <Amaranth> soc: is that compressed or uncompressed size?
[17:28] <Lazy> /usr/share/pulseaudio/alsa-mixer/paths/analog-output.conf.common
[17:29] <Dr_Willis> heres a benifit of grub2 - it can use png or tga for its splash image. :)
[17:29] <Dr_Willis> http://www.howtoforge.com/how-to-add-a-splash-image-to-grub-2-on-ubuntu-9.04
[17:29] <NoelJB> Dr_Willis, Oooo Ahhhh :-p
[17:29] <duffydack> NoelJB, so I find analog-output.conf.common and add what ? everything in this "patch" file?
[17:29] <Ab3L> penguin42, Ian_Corne, do you know how to fill up a bug report for the ati open driver?
[17:29] <Amaranth> soc: confirmed and bumped to medium
[17:29] <volkodav> Hmm - what happened is that it will not overwrite the legacy grub - but i put it on hda and it worked
[17:29] <volkodav> weird
[17:29] <Dr_Willis> odd that they use the default splas of some oddly named landscapw instead of somting nice like /usr/shre/images/grub/grubsplash.png
[17:29]  * Amaranth only does high for compiz stuff and massively duplicated crash bugs
[17:30] <penguin42> Ab3L: As I said before, I suggest ubuntu_bug on xserver-xorg-video-radeon
[17:30] <volkodav> there is no graphics on though
[17:30] <Lazy> duffydack: change line "volume = merge" to "volume = ignore"
[17:30] <penguin42> Ab3L: Or xserver-xorg-video-radeonhd if you have one of the hd cards ?
[17:30] <Dr_Willis> now to test ot. :)
[17:30] <NoelJB> duffydack, according to that patch?  find the file that lazy showed you, find the volume setting, and change it to ignore as shown in the patch
[17:30] <volkodav> same old black and white shit
[17:31] <duffydack> thanks (never had to apply a patch before :) )
[17:32] <soc> Amaranth: thanks
[17:32] <NerveClasp> Hi, there is something wrong with my network manager.. I can't apply changes to my wifi adhoc profile. anybody knows what can be wrong?
[17:32] <yofel> NerveClasp: if you use gnome then yes, nm-applet can't be configured at the moment
[17:32] <NerveClasp> I can't share my lan internet through wireles for other computers
[17:32] <duffydack> Do I have to restart pulse?
[17:33] <NerveClasp> yes, I use gnome
[17:33] <NerveClasp> what can be done?
[17:33] <akgraner> hey BUGabundo ping
[17:33] <yofel> NerveClasp: wait for it to be fixed or edit your gconf profile by hand
[17:33] <BUGabundo> akgraner: pong
[17:33] <BUGabundo> ***
[17:34] <BUGabundo> hi my lovely friend!
[17:34] <BUGabundo> besides mark mention of you
[17:34] <akgraner> BUGabundo, got a sec can I PM you?
[17:34] <BUGabundo> how have the Ubuntu community been threatign you ?
[17:34] <BUGabundo> of course akgraner
[17:34] <BUGabundo> anytime
[17:34] <BUGabundo> no need to ask
[17:34] <akgraner> BUGabundo, awesome as always... I love the community!!!!
[17:34] <BUGabundo> :)
[17:35] <NerveClasp> yofel: can you tell the exact path to gconf? if gconf is a file=)
[17:36] <yofel> NerveClasp: use gconf-editor , gconf is a database like the windows registry
[17:37] <NerveClasp> I thought so=) thanks))) I'm just not that good in linux for now.. I use it just 9 months or so... I just forgot what gconf is=)
[17:38] <vigo> NoelJB: Disregard anything I stated about iBus, it was the wrong thing.
[17:39] <ripps> Is theier a cli gconf browser, much like gconf-editor?
[17:39] <NerveClasp> yofel: sorry again, but in which section to search and what to configure the wlan profile?
[17:39] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, install gconf-editor.  you'll be happier.
[17:39] <NerveClasp> *how to configure=)
[17:39] <NerveClasp> I have it
[17:39] <yofel> ripps: not really, there is gconftool to edit it from the cli, but I know no ncurses interface
[17:40] <NoelJB> yofel, me, neither.  CLI or GUI but no ncurses.
[17:40] <ripps> thanks, just thought I'd ask
[17:40] <zorael> yofel: Regarding the monitor-won't-dpms question a while ago; are you running the Intel driver from the repos? (Just wondering if I should try downgrading mine, as I'm using the 2.9.0 version from xorg-edgers)
[17:40] <yofel> NerveClasp: I don't know really, I use kde and my gnome knowledge is limited
[17:41] <yofel> zorael: yes, the one from the repos
[17:41] <zorael> yofel: okay, thanks
[17:42] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, what was it you were looking to change?
[17:42] <NerveClasp> NoelJB: wlan ad-hoc profile parameters
[17:43] <NerveClasp> NoelJB: I need my lan conection to be shared through wlan to others
[17:43] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, what happens if you right click on the nm-applet, go to edit connections, go to wireless, select your ad hoc connection, and click edit?
[17:44] <NerveClasp> NoelJB: no parameters can be changed. I mean not "all", but those I need in ipv4 tab
[17:46] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, try using manual, and drop by #nm tomorrow.  asac and dcbw should be there.
[17:46] <NerveClasp> NoelJB: "method: together with other computers" cannot be changed into "automatic DHCP" or "manual"
[17:46] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, I'm not sure why selecting that last entry disables the fields.  I'd have to check the code.
[17:46] <NerveClasp> I tryed manual, but it's the same..
[17:47] <NerveClasp> NoelJB: what do you mean "drop by #nm tomorrow.  asac and dcbw should be there."
[17:47] <NerveClasp> *tried
[17:47] <NoelJB>  issue /join #nm  --- that's the network managers IRC channel
[17:47] <NerveClasp> oh, I see
[17:47] <NerveClasp> thnks
[17:48] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, I'd have to see what they do internally when that sharing mode is selected.  Haven't played with it.
[17:48] <NerveClasp> NoelJB, it' empty=(
[17:49] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, then you typed something wrong  :-)
[17:49] <yofel> NoelJB: I heard that nm-applet doesn't save any config changes right now
[17:50] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, "/join #nm" without the quotes.  or just the "#nm" channel if you're using a GUI
[17:50] <NoelJB> yofel, seems to for me, but if not, easy enough to load up that file.
[17:51] <NerveClasp> NoelJB, in 9.04 I had no problems with rooting my lan internet via wlan. my roommate could use my net. wait, I could do that even earlier in 9.10 till last (or prelast) upgrade
[17:51] <yofel> NerveClasp: yes, it was broken recently
[17:51] <NerveClasp> bummer...
[17:52] <NerveClasp> yofel, can I somehow install previous version? or it will have conflicts with other packages?
[17:53] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, which version do you have?  I'm installed from the NM PPA, myself.
[17:53] <NerveClasp> wait
[17:53] <robin0800> NerveClasp: it was updated yesterday 0.7.996
[17:54] <NerveClasp> yeap, it's 0.7.996
[17:54] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, I work from https://launchpad.net/~network-manager/+archive/trunk/+packages
[17:54] <NoelJB> or source,
[17:54] <yofel> robin0800: where did you get that version from? I have 0.8~a~git.20090923t220421.1ac8ffd-0ubuntu4
[17:54] <NoelJB> although right now it appears that the builds are broken again <<sigh>>
[17:55] <NerveClasp> NoelJB, can I install the one from 9.04?
[17:55] <NoelJB> for the applet?  I have 0.8~a~git.20091002t194214.8515a07-0ubuntu1~nmt1
[17:55] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, NO!  :-)
[17:55] <NerveClasp> NoelJB and what wersion was that if anybody knows?
[17:56] <NerveClasp> drats...
[17:56] <Ab3L> penguin42: where have i to fill the bug report? i am looking for ubuntu_bug as you said, but i am not able to find out where i have to write...
[17:56] <yofel> Ab3L: it's ubuntu-bug, not ubuntu_bug
[17:56] <penguin42> Ab3L: It's a command - ubuntu-bug
[17:57] <Ab3L> in the shell terminal?
[17:57] <NerveClasp> NoelJB, can I do SOMETHING with it? I'm in desperation:-@
[17:57] <penguin42> Ab3L: Yes
[17:57] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, You CAN install the new applet, I believe.  Only the network manager build is broken for x64
[17:58] <NoelJB> FWIW, upstream source control is at http://cgit.freedesktop.org/NetworkManager/NetworkManager/log/ in case you want to see what's been done lately.
[17:59] <NerveClasp> NoelJB, I have x32 arch... stupid q: so I have to uninstall current nm and install some other?
[17:59] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, no.  just add the PPA, run apt-get update and apt-get upgrade.
[18:00] <NerveClasp> NoelJB, thanks.. I'll try it now
[18:00] <NoelJB> NerveClasp, you might want to also grab the ppa-purge tool, so that you can back out ppa stuff in the future.
[18:00] <Jeruvy> I tried to install libdvdcss2, but it states its not available, anyone know what if any replaces it?
[18:01] <NoelJB> unfortunately, ppa-purge is still captive to x-edgers, so I add that PPA, install ppa-purge, and remove the ppa (https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ppa)
[18:01] <janaka> nick
[18:02] <Goktan> selam
[18:02] <yofel> !medibuntu | Jeruvy
[18:12] <Jeruvy> yofel: is there a link to specific karmic packages?  It seems quite flaky atm I can't get the packages link to load
[18:12] <yofel> Jeruvy: try it several times, It's unstable here too :(
[18:12] <mikejet> Is Flash & Firefox going to be much better on 64-bit in 9.10 ?
[18:13] <welcome> mikejet : Didn't notice anything of that sort
[18:13] <mikejet> it was very flakey in 9.4, and I had to go back to 32-bit.
[18:13] <yofel> mikejet: dunno, have you tried the 64bit flash alpha version from adobe yet? It's more stable for me than the official 32bit one
[18:14] <NoelJB> yofel, LOL That's like saying "have you tried concrete? its much more stable than quicksand for me."  ;-)
[18:14] <xguru> anyone get the update manager issue fixeD?  it doesn't ask for a password and bombs out during trying to update?
[18:14] <Martyn> xguru : That's not an issue for me
[18:14] <yofel> NoelJB: rofl, but it's still the truth :P
[18:14] <Martyn> xguru : I'm running 32bit, did a clean install of beta ~6 hours ago
[18:15] <mikejet> yofel : my plan is to try 64-bit again with the new release in a few weeks.  ... unless lots of others have problems too.  there is just too many packages to figure out how or what to install.
[18:15] <xguru> yea same here, only i installed KDE on top off ubuntu
[18:15] <mikejet>   all the goofy names don't help.
[18:15] <Martyn> xguru : Shoudn't matter.
[18:15] <Jeruvy> mikejet: I concur the alpha from adobe directly is very nice, the packages one is choppy.
[18:15] <Martyn> xguru : Although I can test that right now.  Want me to try installing 32bit kbuntu beta?
[18:16] <Martyn> Jeruvy : You mean the one from medibuntu repositories?
[18:16] <xguru> Martyn: let me see what apt-get does
[18:17] <Jeruvy> Martyn: The one from the regular repo's, I'm not sure if its the same as medibuntu, I can't see anything since it won't load atm :)
[18:18] <Martyn> it's not
[18:18] <Martyn> the medibuntu one is up to date
[18:18] <Jeruvy> anyone have a working link?
[18:19] <Martyn> and I reccomend that anyone using media plugins, even with 9.10/beta, add the medibuntu repository
[18:21] <xguru> Martyn: works threw the terminal.  Now i will have to wait till more updates come out to see if it fixed the update manager
[18:22] <soc> hi
[18:22] <soc> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/442408
[18:22] <soc> could someone verify that?
[18:22] <Martyn> I can
[18:22] <soc> that would free up ~3mb of space on the live cd
[18:22] <Martyn> but I'd be surprised if the didn't work .. there hasn't been a huge change to gdm
[18:23] <soc> Martyn: the whole gdm is new?!
[18:23] <Martyn> soc : Sure, but all that means is that the themes need to be refactored to use the new xml theme format
[18:23] <Martyn> the actual themes probably will still work, with modification
[18:23] <soc> the old one is still in the repo, called "gdm-2.20"
[18:24] <soc> Martyn: afaik there is no theming support atm
[18:24] <soc> certainly not for karmic
[18:24] <welcome> How is beta
[18:24] <Martyn> soc : OH!  Yeah, good point.
[18:25] <NoelJB> Martyn, +1  medibuntu is one of the first things I add to a clean install.
[18:25] <yofel> welcome: depending on you, from very good to unusable
[18:25] <soc> look at gdmsetup, nothing to change the theme
[18:25] <Martyn> Yeah, looking now
[18:25] <soc> at least change the package descriptions of these packages so they mention gdm-2.20
[18:25] <Martyn> I think you have a good point
[18:25] <soc> or make them depend on gdm-2.20
[18:25] <Martyn> nod
 : Thanks, I'll definitely try that then.
[18:25] <welcome> yofel : lol , how about the artwork , heard many people say it sucks
[18:26] <soc> ok, just checked, the depend on gdm, this is definately wrong
[18:26] <GodfatherofEire> Anybody else havin problems with Static IP's on Karmic or might it just be that I've only tested it on a live USB?
[18:26] <yofel> welcome: the kubuntu artwork is great, the gnome one is a bit odd though
[18:26] <soc> make them at least  depend on gdm-2.20
[18:26] <Martyn> and they definitely do not work with gdm current
[18:26] <soc> ok, have to go
[18:26] <soc> bye
[18:26] <soc> i'll report later again
[18:27] <DanaG> weird... I wiped and restored from backup, and I found out that my backup needs to have /dev and /sys and /proc  .... but now after creating them, I get "/dev/null: no such file or directory" on boot.
[18:27] <yofel> DanaG: huh? /dev is a tmpfs so a backup doesn't really make sense
[18:28] <NoelJB> DanaG, /dev/null: no such file or directory is already reported.  let me get you the bug
[18:28] <DanaG> yeah, I know... that's why I had it excluded.
[18:28] <Martyn> yofel : you need an entry (directory) for the tmpfs to mount on
[18:28] <DanaG> Yeah, I had to recreate those dirs (empty).
[18:28] <penguin42> DanaG: /dev tmpfs I think gets created by udev or hal during boot; /sys and /proc aren't real they're special - you just need empty directories there
[18:28] <yofel> Martyn: ah, that makes sense ^^
[18:29] <DanaG> ah, dev is not the same as sys and proc?
[18:29] <NoelJB> DanaG, bug 435630
[18:29] <penguin42> DanaG: Not these days
[18:29] <DanaG> weird, for me, it doesn't then become bootable.  It just stops.
[18:29] <NoelJB> DanaG, for me it is just a harmless message.
[18:29] <GodfatherofEire> Only reason I'm askin in here is cause I dont want to file a bug if its already there.
[18:30] <yofel> GodfatherofEire: if you use gnome network manager then there is a configuration issue right now, you could aks in #nm for more info
[18:30] <TDJACR> I tried to upgrade and got http://bayimg.com/haEfNAAcE
[18:30] <DanaG> so if I look at a non-booted karmic root.... dev won't be there, even empty?
[18:30] <Zvezdichko> Hey, do you know who are reffered as euroidiots?
[18:30] <u-foka> Hy! Anyone can help my get the early boot splash working? I have an nvidia card, the livecd boots ok, but after the installation, there is some textual booting before xsplash loads
[18:30] <GodfatherofEire> yofel yeah, that was what I was usin
[18:31] <GodfatherofEire> I'll just wait a while before downloadin Karmic, let em work out the kinks first
[18:31] <NoelJB> GodfatherofEire, there were some fixes recently related to that, but I don't know what got into the beta.  I run from the NM development PPA.
[18:31] <Martyn>  /ignore Zvezdichko
[18:31] <mac_v> u-foka: known issue , file a bug with the list of messages displayed
[18:31] <u-foka> mac_v, thx
[18:32] <NoelJB> mac_v, like bug 435630 ?
[18:32] <GodfatherofEire> NoelJB, ah, well, thanks for the info
[18:32] <u-foka> I'l check it
[18:32] <Zvezdichko> Martyn: you probably know the answer : Lewcki Sofia
[18:33] <mac_v> NoelJB: yup
[18:33] <yofel> !ot | Zvezdichko
[18:33] <ryguy> hey guys
[18:33] <mac_v> !hi | ryguy:
[18:33] <ryguy> I'm trying to install 9.10 beta and when the screen comes up, I select "Install Ubuntu" as opposed to "Try Ubuntu without changing your computer" and The installation takes awhile then it goes into Live anyways. I then open up the "Install 9.10" Icon on the Live desktop andit seems to work, but when it gets to the "Install Ubuntu" phase after I enter all my info, the install program just closes =/ Is there anyway to install it without Liv
[18:33] <ryguy> e running?
[18:33] <tomasv> I just dist-upgraded to Karmic, rebooted, ... no sound anymore, googled, found advice to try another kernel, wanted to do so... but to my surprise grub had been replaced by grub2... so no menu.lst to edit... switching to a different bootloader without asking for confirmation is imho EVIL
[18:34] <TDJACR> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/83954 is a bug, not a question.
[18:34] <tomasv> dont know which package to file a bug: grub(2), apt, update-notifier, ...
[18:34] <TDJACR> Whoops, bold :/
[18:34] <u-foka> NoelJB, no it's not my bug :D i have no error messages, only normal textual boot where the white ubuntu logo should takes place, after a little time xsplash loads and works as expected
[18:34] <Martyn> tomsku : 9.10's bootloader -is- grub2.  There is an announcement on that issue on the main page
[18:34] <Martyn> !grub2
[18:35] <yofel> Martyn: but a dist-upgrade shouldn't change the installed one, or am I wrong?
[18:35] <Martyn> tomsku : It's always important to read the release notes before installing/upgrading :)
[18:35] <NoelJB> Martyn, but tomasv says that it UPGRADED and did it.  I thought that an upgrade left grub1 in place.  did that change in the beta?
[18:35] <Martyn> yofel : Dist-upgrade will replace it now
[18:35] <tomasv> still aconfirmation would be nice...
[18:35] <Martyn> NoelJB : Yep.
[18:36] <Martyn> I just had a peek at the package, and the behavior has changed
[18:36] <yofel> Martyn: o.O... why that? It was a pretty good way if you wanted to keep grub1
[18:36] <DanaG> re-asking:  If I look at a non-booted karmic root.... dev won't be there, even empty?
[18:36] <Martyn> yofel : To be sure that -everyone- running beta is on the same system
[18:36] <Martyn> yofel : It does make sense
[18:36] <NoelJB> Martyn, oiy ... <<sigh>> FORCING grub2 seems such a poor idea, and recipe for broken boots.
[18:36] <tomasv> replacing a boot loader behind the scenes isn't very polite...
[18:36] <ryguy> I'm trying to install 9.10 beta and when the screen comes up, I select "Install Ubuntu" as opposed to "Try Ubuntu without changing your computer" and The installation takes awhile then it goes into Live anyways. I then open up the "Install 9.10" Icon on the Live desktop andit seems to work, but when it gets to the "Install Ubuntu" phase after I enter all my info, the install program just closes =/ Is there anyway to install it without Liv
[18:36] <ryguy> e running?
[18:36] <NoelJB> Martyn, will that be reverted for the RC and release?
[18:37]  * Martyn shrugs, that's the way the canonical crew decided to go
[18:37]  * yofel has still the same opinion as tomasv
[18:37] <Martyn> NoelJB : AFIK, no
[18:37] <Martyn> I think 9.10's offical bootloader is now grub2
[18:37] <Martyn> and upgrading to it, requires the upgrade
[18:37] <Martyn> To prevent "mixed" systems
[18:38] <tomasv> but anyway... next issue: grub2 only shows my old kernel in the menu
[18:38] <yofel> Martyn: an if you use grub1 to dual boot an older ubuntu version? You'll just break it?
[18:38] <NoelJB> Martyn, I hope that doesn't invoke the law of unintended consequences and slow Karmic adoption because people don't want grub 1
[18:38] <larsemil> i have som problems getting direct rendering for my intel video card
[18:38] <NoelJB> er, grub2
[18:38] <larsemil> larsemil@mamin:~$ glxinfo | grep render
[18:38] <larsemil> direct rendering: Yes
[18:38] <larsemil> OpenGL renderer string: Software Rasterizer
[18:38] <Martyn> Otherwise two completely different kernel upgrade package scripts will have to be maintained, and other grub-config-update critical packages will fail in the final
[18:39] <tomasv> i'm a seasoned linux user, so I got round it, but now I have to manually go into the grub shell on every boot to change the kernel version
[18:39] <tomasv> not very pleasant
[18:39] <ryguy> can anyone help me?
[18:39] <NoelJB> Martyn, perhaps, but unless GRUB2 is the most important package in Karmic, it means that if people stay away from Karmic because of GRUB2, we won't get the testing coverage we want for Lucid.
[18:40] <yofel> tomasv: does 'update-grub' list you new kernel and does the enty in /boot/grub/grub.cfg get generated?
[18:41] <Martyn> NoelJB : If grub2 is the thing that keeps people away ( and it's =not= a huge issue for most poeple ) I'd be surprised
[18:41] <tomasv> yofel: Found kernel: /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31-11-generic
[18:41] <Martyn> NoelJB : This was really, REALLY hashed over at the last UDS
[18:41] <tomasv> so yes... but apparently update-grub didn't run correctly on upgrade
[18:41] <NoelJB> Martyn, I'm sure ...
[18:42] <Martyn> NoelJB : So it shouldn't be a surprise
[18:42] <Martyn> We'll see.
[18:42] <NoelJB> Martyn, But the population who attends the UDS is what fraction of what fraction of what fraction of 1% of the Ubuntu community?
[18:42] <larsemil> noone else using intel driver in karmic?
[18:42] <Martyn> NoelJB : The ones that back, and perform most of the work?
[18:42] <Martyn> NoelJB : No insult intended, but that's what happens.
[18:42] <yofel> Martyn: you can't freely change the description and order for other os'es than karmic in grub2 right now, so my dual-boot pc is still running grub1 and won't see grub2 for quite a while
[18:43] <Martyn> yofel : Yeah, that was a BIG argument at the last UDS
[18:43] <NoelJB> Martyn, and that would be fine of Ubuntu was intended just for them, but when you are targeting a large population of users who are not at UDS (you know, bug #1), you had better adopt a different approach to community decisions than face to face meetings at UDS.
[18:43] <Martyn> yofel: It's a big deal for people who run ubuntu-server for virtualization too
[18:44] <yofel> Martyn: why don't at least include an option in ubiquity to keep grub1 (at least include it in the final)
[18:44] <NoelJB> Martyn, you might not be aware, but I'm VP of the Apache Incubator, and a long time ASF Member.  I do know a little bit about community building.  :-)
[18:44] <Martyn> yofel : mostly due to dealing with kernel upgrades and such
[18:44] <wekt> have others here witnessed lagging in X Windows after upgrading koala in the past 5 days?
[18:44] <Martyn> NoelJB : I know who you are.
[18:45] <tomasv> just a sec...
[18:45] <tomasv> sudo update-grub
[18:45] <penguin42> wekt: Not generally, but there's something with flash erm flashing a bit
[18:45] <tomasv> ...
[18:45] <tomasv> Updating /boot/grub/menu.lst ... done
[18:45] <tomasv> this doesn't seem correct now does it?
[18:45] <Amaranth> wekt: There is a problem with losing intel acceleration randomly
[18:45] <yofel> tomasv: ...
[18:45] <yofel> tomasv: are you SURE that you get grub2 on boot?
[18:45] <wekt> Amaranth, that would fit.  i'm on Intel Video
[18:45] <Martyn> NoelJB : Although using the 'do you know who I am' line is a bit lame :)  ( I'm the guy who designed and built the network and software infrastructure that runs /., freshmeat, and sourceforge... we're all rockstars here.)
[18:45] <Amaranth> wekt: The only answer for it so far is to reboot until it goes away, race condition in module loading
[18:46] <wekt> Amaranth, though it is all 2D that I'm doing.  no compiz.
[18:46] <Amaranth> wekt: Is compiz working?
[18:46]  * Martyn just assumes that everyone who is involved in the beta is a rockstar.  Makes it easer to assume everyone is competent and awesome.
[18:46] <Amaranth> wekt: Can you turn compiz on? If not we've found the problem.
[18:46] <NoelJB> Martyn, wasn't playing the rockstar card.  just establishing that I have *some* basis for understanding open source projects.  LOL
[18:46] <Martyn> heh.
[18:47]  * Amaranth is a rockstar
[18:47] <Martyn> But yeah, I don't disagree with you.  Perhaps you and I can work on a package to add to the PPA to create a grub1 based install?
[18:47] <NoelJB> Amaranth, more like a video star :-)
[18:47] <Amaranth> Video killed the radio star?
[18:47] <tomasv> yofel: the menu seemed kinda strange, so I suppose so, let's reboot and make sure
[18:47] <yofel> tomasv: iirc it should be displayed on top of the screen
[18:47] <NoelJB> Amaranth, <<sigh>> Let's just hope that Gnome 3 doesn't turn you into a radio star.  :-(
[18:47] <slacker_nl> lol
[18:48] <NoelJB> Martyn, was that (grub1) directed at me?
[18:48] <tomasv> back in a sec...
[18:48] <Martyn> NoelJB : It is indeed.
[18:48] <Martyn> NoelJB : I'm sure we could put a modified PPA together pretty quickly.
[18:48] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Either gnome-shell is going to fail or compiz is going to not be usable with GNOME anymore, there is no third option :/
[18:48] <Martyn> cd build with grub1 install and compatibe with the beta.
[18:48] <Amaranth> Martyn: Why do you want grub 1 so badly?
[18:49] <Martyn> to let people like tomasv, you, I, etc install it if they need it
[18:49] <Martyn> Amaranth : I don't.  However, I do keep hearing that people want it .. so, if that's the case, why not make an alternate-install
[18:49] <yofel> Amaranth: grub2 is great, but there still are things that grub1 does much better
[18:49] <NoelJB> Martyn, that would be OK, although I do want to move to GRUB2 at some point for the boot config.
[18:49] <Martyn> one that allows a choice of grub2 and grub1
[18:49] <wekt> Amaranth,  I don't know how to start with compiz.  I'm using netbook remix & have tried with metacity and XFCE, but don't see a compiz option in GDM although compiz is installed.
[18:49] <wekt> Amaranth, is more like  a cereal, if i recall.
[18:49] <Amaranth> Martyn: But _why_ do they want it?
[18:50] <NoelJB> Martyn, at the moment, I don't know if anyone other than cj REALLY knows grub2 well enough.
[18:50] <TDJACR> grub1 and pidgin and a few other things should still be options
[18:50] <yofel> Amaranth: read the backlog from a few minutes ago ;)
[18:50] <Martyn> Amaranth : Multiboot, Multi-OS install is one valid reason.   We haven't yet really brought the tools to the same level of support as we have for grub1 for that.
[18:50] <TDJACR> And the installer should let you pick a theme
[18:50] <Amaranth> Read? Me?
[18:50] <Amaranth> TDJACR: hahahahahaha
[18:50] <TDJACR> Amaranth: What?
[18:50] <yofel> Amaranth: ^^
[18:51]  * Jeruvy grabs a sledgehammer and starts hitting packages.medibuntu.org
[18:51] <Amaranth> TDJACR: We're trying to remove questions from the installer, not add more
[18:51]  * TDJACR did not know that.
[18:51] <yofel> Amaranth: whe do have an advanced tab at the end...
[18:51] <TDJACR> Yeah...
[18:51] <Amaranth> yofel: Sadly, yes.
[18:52] <TDJACR> Maybe a "Would you like to see other personalization options" (Yes/No)
[18:52] <Amaranth> Theme changing in the installer isn't going to happen though
[18:52] <TDJACR> The app store is a failed concept
[18:52] <NoelJB> Amaranth, in my case, because I have sda1 (GRUB boot partition with master menu), sda[5-9] with Fedora, Hardy, Intrepid, Jaunty and Karmic all having their own GRUB.  The master GRUB has a lot of entries of the form configfile (hd0,X)/boot/grub/menu.lst
[18:52] <Amaranth> Just change it after the install if you don't like it
[18:52] <TDJACR> Amaranth: I understand that bit.
[18:52] <TDJACR> Amaranth: But Pidgin and Grub1 should still be present.
[18:52] <webbb821> did anyone els get a big 174 app upgrade last night
[18:52] <Amaranth> TDJACR: pidgin in the installer is also not going to happen
[18:52] <Amaranth> webbb821: Yeah the queue was cleared after the beta
[18:52] <TDJACR> Amaranth: I know.
[18:53] <slacker_nl> TDJACR: pidgin and grub are available in the repo's
[18:53] <Amaranth> NoelJB: But grub2 should find all of these and show them to you
[18:53] <TDJACR> Amaranth: Grub1 and Pidgin have more features, imho compared to their replacements.
[18:53] <arielCo> Hello everyone. Does anyone know for sure which directories use the most space for a distro upgrade? My /var is smallish (280 MB avail), and I already tried relocating /var/cache/apt and /var/tmp.
[18:53] <TDJACR> slacker_nl: I know.
[18:53] <Amaranth> TDJACR: pidgin doesn't let me play online multiplayer with people in my contacts
[18:53] <NoelJB> Amaranth, yes, and I've discussed it with Colin.  When we have mutual time, I'll look at moving to GRUB2.  In the meantime ...
[18:54] <NoelJB> Amaranth, and GRUB2 is still too damned unstable (as evidenced by it crashing and burning on me yesterday).
[18:54] <yofel> slacker_nl: yes, but it's not nice to first break your grub setup and then give you the option to enable it again (and not give support if something goes wrong)
[18:54] <darthanubis> And Empathy does not seem to connect to Yahoo
[18:54] <TDJACR> Amaranth: I do value your opinion, but it does vary from mine.
[18:54] <tomasv> yofel: my bad: it actually is grub, but with a screwed up font, and grub2 is installed, since I now have /etc/grub/..., but still not new kernel in the menu, so something got screwed anyway
[18:54] <TDJACR> Anyway, bugs like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/442416 need to be fixed.
[18:54] <wekt> Koala is not destined to become LTS, is it?  Then it not supporting some scenarios that GRUB1 supported could be acceptable.  If GRUB1 wanters support GRUB1 as an alternative, it should be no problem to have both.  GRUB1 supports dvorak layout.  That is what i would be missing i GRUB2.
[18:54] <slacker_nl> arielCo: /var/cache/apt is the big consumer during dist-upgrades
[18:54] <TDJACR> wekt: No it isn'y
[18:54] <wekt> arielCo, you found the ones that gett bigest during an upgrade.
[18:54] <slacker_nl> yofel: i'm running grub1 on karmic...
[18:55] <Amaranth> karmic is the "shove everything we can in" release
[18:55] <yofel> tomasv: sounds like some grub1/2 hybrid state o.O
[18:55] <tomasv> yofel: my thoughts exactly
[18:55] <TDJACR> Amaranth: which is the principle that I disagreed with :p
[18:55] <slacker_nl> yofel: grub2 is only installed when you freshly install karmic
[18:55] <Amaranth> Because lucid is going to have almost no new stuff
[18:55] <yofel> slacker_nl: me too on my other pc, but Martyn said that an updrade will now force grub2
[18:55] <JoeSomebody> hi , very new to linux (installed 9.04 a week or two ago) , old windoze man here, i was wondering as a new ubuntu user, should i upgrade, so i did it because we always have to in windozeland, and now i have an optical drive issue, can anyone help? can i fix or should i toast it and go clean?
[18:55] <Martyn> Koala is not an LTS, correct
[18:55] <slacker_nl> yofel: mkay..
[18:55] <tomasv> let's try to purge/reinstall the whole shebang
[18:55] <Amaranth> TDJACR: That bug is a dupe, btw
[18:55] <NoelJB> Amaranth, I actually HOPE that Lucid is the Snow Leopard release! :-D
[18:55] <TDJACR> Amaranth: Google let me down :p
[18:56] <darthanubis> ok, I was wrong, sweet!
[18:56] <TDJACR> Sorry about that.
[18:56] <slacker_nl> would need to try that, since that is a new policy afaik, since they said that they wouldn't do the grub1 to 2 upgrade
[18:56] <NoelJB> By which I mean, emphasis on bug fixing, not new features.
[18:56] <Martyn> !ot JoeSomebody
[18:56] <Martyn> !ot
[18:56] <arielCo> slacker_nl: NoelJB told me that, but I relocated it and the upgrade procedure seems to check somewhere else: http://pastebin.com/m14d06777
[18:56] <Jeruvy> JoeSomebody: this is for 9.10, I wouldn't upgrade until it's official (29th) otherwise you should be asking in #ubuntu if you need help with 9.04
[18:56] <Amaranth> NoelJB: afaik the only really big new features planned so far all relate to ubuntuone and software-center
[18:56] <wekt> Amaranth, i guess when you write lucid you don't mean xemacs?
[18:56] <Amaranth> !lucid
[18:57] <tomasv> man, I can only uninstall grub, apt doesn't seem to be aware of grub2 :/
[18:57] <NoelJB> Amaranth, both of which are already in Karmic.
[18:57] <JoeSomebody> is there a log of the install so we can see what went wrong?
[18:57] <Martyn> Lucid Lynx is a good name
[18:57] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Right but they'll be vastly expanded
[18:57] <NoelJB> wekt, LOL No.  Lucid Lynx.  Ubuntu 10.04, "Good Buddy"
[18:57] <yofel> tomasv: you want to install grub-pc for grub2
[18:57] <slacker_nl> JoeSomebody: /var/log/apt iirc /var/log/dpkg
[18:57] <Amaranth> NoelJB: software-center is going to replace every package-related GUI except update-manager, for example
[18:57] <darthanubis> why is Empathy showing myself as a contact?
[18:58] <NoelJB> I wonder if anyone outside of the USA knows how funny 10.4 is?
[18:58] <JoeSomebody> thx
[18:58] <NoelJB> Or anyone IN the USA under the age of, oh, 40?  LOL
[18:58] <Martyn> NoelJB : Explain?
[18:58] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Took me a minute there to realize what you meant :)
[18:58] <tomasv> yofel: frankly, I don't really care, I just want a functional bootloader...
[18:58] <NoelJB> Martyn, CB "10" codes.  :-)
[18:58] <Amaranth> 10-4 means "acknowledged" when talking on CB radio
[18:58] <NoelJB> From the days of the CB radio craze.
[18:58] <slacker_nl> 10.4 - okish or something right?
[18:58] <darthanubis> with the gtalk/jabber accounts
[18:59] <Martyn> NoelJB : CHORTLE
[18:59] <Martyn> Gods, I never even thought of it ...
[18:59] <yofel> tomasv: i understand that, I just don't understand how you got into that mess, and don't really know a clear way to get out of it
[18:59] <Martyn> "Good Buddy" indeed
[18:59] <webbb821> i got a telepathy gabble update will this fix empathy
[18:59] <Amaranth> webbb821: only if your problem is getting on IRC
[18:59] <webbb821> oh
[19:00] <NoelJB> Amaranth, what else do we have other than software sources and synaptic?
[19:00] <Amaranth> NoelJB: gdebi
[19:00] <arielCo> http://pastebin.com/m5661c86c  << see what I mean
[19:00] <tomasv> yofel: like kubuntu.org told me: update-notifier-kde -d
[19:00] <Amaranth> NoelJB: and for some reason gnome-app-install
[19:01] <yofel> tomasv: ok, correct way, so I guess the update procedure is broken right now...
[19:01] <slacker_nl> arielCo: increase your /var
[19:01] <webbb821> did they fix the gdeb error of not being able to install a deb threw the gdeb installer  only being able to install via terminal
[19:01] <NoelJB> arielCo, <<sigh>> Looks like the check is stupid and stopping because /var doesn't have enough space, even though /var/apt does.  :-(
[19:01] <tomasv> yofel: which one should i install: grub2 or grub-pc ?
[19:01] <yofel> webbb821: yes, it's fixed
[19:01] <slacker_nl> arielCo: or symlink /var/cache/apt to another dir on your / fs so it has enough space
[19:01] <arielCo> slacker_nl: that's the obvious solution, but I'm trying to workaround to it
[19:02] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, that's exactly what arielCo did, but the check is being dumb about where it needs the space, and just checking the FS root.
[19:02] <arielCo> slacker_nl: /var/cache/apt is already on /, which has 2.2 GB available
[19:02] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: ahh, k, didn't know that
[19:02] <arielCo> yup, maybe it should do the check only where it's going to write
[19:02] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, neither did we, when we all told arielCo to make the symlink
[19:02] <NoelJB> arielCo, please open a bug report on that, so it can be fixed for the future.
[19:03] <NoelJB> arielCo, and feel free to subscribe me, as I'll want to track it.
[19:04] <arielCo> NoelJB: my python skills are still weak, so don't expect any patches ;)
[19:04] <yofel> arielCo: please give me the bug number too, as I'm interested too
[19:04] <arielCo> going
[19:04] <arielCo> launchpad, I guess?
[19:04] <slacker_nl> yes
[19:04] <wekt> yeah, verily.  Intel is using software rendering according to glxinfo: OpenGL renderer string: Software Rasterizer .  Though i would think that would not make 2D lag.  The 2D gets drawn fast enough when it draws, just pauses between events.  I'll try & figure out how to get back to non-software 3D though & see whether that helps.
[19:05] <slacker_nl> arielCo: you can use ubuntu-bugs update-manager to create the bug report
[19:06] <arielCo> NoelJB & slacker_nl: damn, something's screwed after symlinking. Now apt-file search do-dist-upgrade (to locate the pertaining package) yells "shell-init: error retrieving current directory: getcwd: cannot access parent directories: No such file or directory". Guess it's rollback time :)
[19:06] <yofel> arielCo: actually you *should* use ubuntu-bug
[19:07] <NoelJB> arielCo, <<sigh>> lovely.  I wonder if a bind mount would work.
[19:07] <JoeSomebody> the issue with the beta, so far , is that i cannot open my dvdrw after doing an unmount on a blank, anyone know what that might be about , and how to fix it? open button is dead
[19:07] <slacker_nl> yofel: why the should?
[19:07] <arielCo> well, meanwhile I'll undo the relocation
[19:09] <yofel> slacker_nl: we are trying to get as may bug reports reported with apport so that the apport-hooks add additional information to the report. Triaging incomplete bug reports is a huge resource bucket.
[19:09] <slacker_nl> k
[19:10] <raw__> Hey guys.. anyone here can help me get my nvidia card working in studio?
[19:10] <yofel> slacker_nl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/IncreaseApportAdoption if you're interested
[19:10] <Jeruvy> JoeSomebody: same problem here, apport won't report it.  And I can't get dvd playback working, seem to be missing some plugins I cannot get.
[19:10] <yofel> raw__: what's the problem? Driver won't work after installing in hardware drivers?
[19:11] <slacker_nl> yofel: click
[19:11] <SJr> How is Kubuntu doing, should I try upgrading?
[19:12] <yofel> SJr: depending on you, from 'very good' to 'unusable' - decide yourself ;)
[19:12] <arielCo> NoelJB: cancel the getcwd complaint: I was running the apt-file commands standing at /var/cache/apt/, in a terminal I opened *before* symlinking (duh). The original bug stands, though.
[19:12] <slacker_nl> yofel: there is one thing I don't like about apport bug reporting, specificly when it reports a bug due to a crash
[19:12] <raw__> Ok classic thing.. when i ask for help the problem automaticly fixes itself =P
[19:13] <SJr> If my decision to upgrade is dependant upon how stable I think it is, then the only decision I could make is whether to regret it or not
[19:13] <yofel> SJr: you should definitely try a live disk first to see if if works for you
[19:13] <slacker_nl> yofel: and that is that the search for dupe bugs is incorrect, most of my crash reports have been duplicates
[19:13] <yofel> SJr: I'm running kubuntu 32 and 64 bit just fine here
[19:13] <tomasv> ok, uninstalled grub, installed grub2, now: "File not found...", Am I lucky grub2 is only chainloaded and not installed over old grub!
[19:13] <JoeSomebody> i can live with no optical , or optical related bugs, for now, i like the changes i have found so far (real fed up with ms and windoze)
[19:14] <slacker_nl> arielCo: what is the bugnumber?
[19:14] <Armageddon> how's karmic going guys ?
[19:14] <arielCo> slacker_nl: just a minute
[19:15] <JoeSomebody> will there be updates for this beta in between the release date? i am new please bear with my dumb questions
[19:15] <tomasv> back to good old manual edit of menu.lst :/
[19:15] <NoelJB> arielCo, understood.  perhaps we can find the specific bit of code, somewhere in update-manager-core, that does the check, and you can disable it.
[19:16] <virtuald> empathy says network error when it can't connect. wtf does that mean? something a little more helpful would be nice...
[19:16] <NoelJB> JoeSomebody, there have been updates today, yesterday, and pretty much every day.  :-)
[19:16] <JoeSomebody> i see, thx
[19:16] <JoeSomebody> i assume i just go in update manager like before?
[19:16] <Martyn> JoeSomebody : All of us are working hard as dogs right now
[19:16] <Martyn> so there will be near constant software updates, some of which may break things badly if we fsck up
[19:16] <NoelJB> Armageddon, well enough.  Not the end of the world.
[19:17] <JoeSomebody> :)
[19:17] <dbristow> ubuntu-9.10-beta-desktop-armel+dove.img and ubuntu-9.10-beta-desktop-armel+imx51.img.  Can someone tell me what these are for?
[19:17] <Armageddon> NoelJB: last stage karmic didn't boot !
[19:17] <Martyn> JoeSomebody : Let me put it this way -- don't trust a production machine, or anything else you love, to 9.10 until after the release
[19:17] <ActionParsnip> yo yo yo
[19:17] <Martyn> dbristow : I'd lov eot
[19:18] <JoeSomebody> i have replaceable stuff on that machine
[19:18] <Martyn> dbristow : Those are ARM based images, for ARM machines.  the dove is one made by Marvell, the i.mx51 is one made by freescale
[19:18] <Martyn> I'm working on yet another platform, called smooth-stone
[19:18] <dbristow> ARM, ahh.
[19:18] <Martyn> all of them are very low power architectures.  The i.mx51 is focused on netbooks
[19:18] <Martyn> smooth-stone is focused on servers
[19:19] <Martyn> dove is a Marvell test board, one you'll likely never see
[19:21] <virtuald> will cortex 9 be for netbooks?
[19:22] <JoeSomebody> i hope to become a ubuntu power user fast, and help others in my area, see ya later windows and all the viri, bugs etc , that will NEVER get fixed, i been in computers since 88, i am way overdue to become a linux guy
[19:22] <Martyn> virtuald : Someday
[19:22] <virtuald> <:
[19:22] <Martyn> virtuald : For now, most netbooks will be cortex A8
[19:22] <Martyn> (like the iphone is)
[19:22] <virtuald> ok
[19:23] <penguin42> Martyn: It might be interesting - which ARM boards do people expect Karmic to be used on? (or will that be more likely to be found out at release?)
[19:23] <Martyn> penguin42 : Mostly not
[19:23] <Martyn> penguin42 : No support for beagle and whatnot
[19:23] <Martyn> penguin42 : We're using karmic (and used jaunty) to learn what's needed
[19:24] <penguin42> Martyn: Ah right; what about OpenRD ?
[19:24] <Martyn> no comment
[19:24] <penguin42> ah cool :-)
[19:24] <JoeSomebody> the more i learn about linux, ubuntu, the community, you guys, etc. the more i am impressed, thank you all :)
[19:25] <Quarth> Hi people.
[19:25] <Quarth> I have a little problem: desktop not showing any icons since few weeks. Starting gnome in safe mode shows icons. I've checked show-desktop values in gconf-edit nautilus preferences. Any idea? Should I ask somewhere else? Thanks!
[19:25] <penguin42> Quarth: They've been turned off as a design decision
[19:25] <Martyn> yep
[19:25]  * penguin42 looks for the bug
[19:25] <Quarth> Oh! :D
[19:26] <NoelJB> Quarth, UPSTREAM decision.  The gnome folks.
[19:26] <penguin42> #407621
[19:26] <Quarth> It looks a 'funny' decision lol
[19:26] <DanaG> weird... since livecd no longer has Pidgin.... there's no IRC client!
[19:26] <NoelJB> bug #407621
[19:26] <DanaG> At least, Empathy didn't seem to offer IRC.
[19:26] <penguin42> Quarth: You can turn the menu ones back on via system->preferences->appearance->something
[19:26] <wekt> Quarth, i didn't know gnome did it.  KDE4 did it.
[19:27] <Amaranth> No, he is talking about a different problem
[19:27] <virtuald> isn't here going to be something in karmic like the fast user switch applet in jaunty?
[19:27] <Quarth> tx guys, I'll take a look
[19:27] <Amaranth> You guys are talking about icons missing from menus, he is talking about not having desktop icons
[19:27] <Amaranth> virtuald: there already is
[19:27] <penguin42> oh? Desktop icons should stil be there
[19:27] <yofel> JoeSomebody: you're always welcome to help, more people are always needed (and join the bugsquad if you don't hava anything else to do, we really need more people :P)
[19:27] <virtuald> amaranth: where?
[19:27] <Amaranth> virtuald: up by your click, it says your username
[19:27] <Amaranth> err, clock
[19:27] <virtuald> no
[19:28] <virtuald> i don't have it
[19:28] <drs305> Quarth: Do you have both "show desktop" AND "volumes visible" enabled?
[19:28] <Amaranth> virtuald: ok, right click, add to panel, indicator session applet
[19:28] <Amaranth> (it's there in a default install)
[19:28] <Quarth> wait, it's not related to menu, are desktop icons.
[19:28] <Quarth> Oh, I see you realized.
[19:28] <NoelJB> Quarth, which desktop icons don'
[19:28] <virtuald> heh what a name
[19:28] <NoelJB> t appear?
[19:28] <Quarth> drs305, yep.
[19:28] <virtuald> i would have never guessed
[19:28] <Quarth> No desktop icon.
[19:29] <Quarth> I see menu bar and status bar, but desktop is clear. I have docs and so in my /desktop folder.
[19:29] <JoeSomebody> •yofel• when i get my chops i'll be happy to help, i have lots of time normally
[19:30] <Quarth> If I login in gnome-safemode icons are shown
[19:30] <virtuald> amaranth: on what side of the clock should it be? and it doesn't say my username, it shows a barely visible envelope
[19:30] <NoelJB> Quarth, Oh ... hmmm ... so it is as if your ~/Desktop folder isn't being shown at all?
[19:30] <Amaranth> Quarth: gconftool --set --type bool /apps/nautilus/preferences/show_desktop true
[19:31] <Amaranth> virtuald: you added the indicator applet, not the indicator session applet
[19:31] <arielCo> slacker_nl, NoelJB: Bug #442456, both are subscribed
[19:31] <virtuald> ok
[19:31] <Quarth> NoelJB, that's it, no file/doc/folder is shown.
[19:31] <JoeSomebody> i am reading wiley ubuntu secrets 2009 to make sure i have a basic understanding
[19:31] <ajs`> so, i am having trouble mounting removable media after the upgrade, gives me a "Unable to mount location, not Authotized" error.  any idea whats not working?
[19:31] <NoelJB> Quarth, and you have ~/Desktop?  Note: Desktop, *NOT* desktop
[19:31] <DanaG> weird... IRC isn't available in the first-run wizard of Empathy!
[19:31] <DanaG> That's a bug... it'll make it awfully hard for people to get IRC support.
[19:32] <DanaG> It would be good for the livecd to have an account already set up!
[19:32] <Quarth> Amaranth, that setting is already true.
[19:32] <NoelJB> yofel, I believe that you had also expressed interest in bug 442456
[19:32] <Amaranth> Quarth: is nautilus running?
[19:33] <yofel> NoelJB: thx
[19:33] <NoelJB> yofel, self: subscribe, but there's the link
[19:33] <slacker_nl> arielCo: it did download karmic.tgz?
[19:33] <yofel> NoelJB: already done ;)
[19:33] <slacker_nl> arielCo: never mind..
[19:34] <arielCo> slacker_nl: hmm... nope
[19:34] <Jeruvy> ok got libdvdcss2 installed (finally) but totem refuses (permission and plugin issues) and vlc crashes.
[19:34] <Jaymac> does the empathy shipped with the beta not support file transfer over msn?
[19:34] <Quarth> Amaranth, you hit the point!
[19:35] <Quarth> It was not running! :O
[19:35] <arielCo> slacker_nl: oh, log says it did - perhaps it removed it
[19:35] <Quarth> So the problem now is...why it wasn't running? :/
[19:35] <duffydack> NoelJB, I gave up on karmic btw.  the patch didnt change anything.  I guess im staying with jaunty..  "great for older hardware" no longer applies in my case :)
[19:35] <Jeruvy> vlc apport sent.
[19:35] <slacker_nl> arielCo: no, i had an idea, but soon realised it wouldn't work
[19:35] <Amaranth> Quarth: gconftool -g /desktop/gnome/session/required_components_list
[19:36] <Amaranth> Quarth: does that say filemanager?
[19:36] <NoelJB> duffydack, file a bug report.
[19:36] <wekt> Jaymac, I thought empathy didn't support MSN at all.
[19:37] <Quarth> Amaranth, no: [windowmanager,panel]. It seems filemanager was eliminated someway
[19:37] <arielCo> slacker_nl: Here's a thought: relocating /var while GNOME is running would be dangerous, but I guess I could do it in runlevel 3, then come back and try again
[19:37] <NoelJB> mine has [windowmanager,panel,filemanager]
[19:37] <Jaymac> wekt, well it supports chat via the libpurple library
[19:37] <Jaymac> but i don't seem to be able to use file transfer
[19:38] <Quarth> Amaranth, but cheking gconf-editor entry it shows 'filemanager nautilus'
[19:38] <kiwnix> hello, is there any problem reported with 9.10 beta and swt (eclipse 3.5.1 downloaded from www.eclipse.org)?, i'm having problems with buttons not working ok, and widgets not showing correctly
[19:38] <Amaranth> Quarth: ok so in gconf-editor add filemanager to that list
[19:39] <penguin42> kiwnix: Not tried it myself but I thought someone said similar earlier
[19:39] <slacker_nl> arielCo: i would not relocate /var on a running system, /var/run and /var/lock entries will not like that :)
[19:39] <Quarth> Amaranth, weird, filemanager entry is already there.
[19:40] <NoelJB> Quarth, no ... let me explain
[19:40] <BUGabundo> mac_v: so you saw your ears pulled by seb??
[19:40] <Amaranth> Quarth: in /desktop/gnome/session/required_components it is but you need to click on /desktop/gnome/session and edit required_components_list
[19:40] <NoelJB> Quarth, you are looking at the desktop/gnome/session/required_components "directory", but one level up is the KEY that you need to change.
[19:40] <kiwnix> penguin42, thankyou i will search launchpad for hints :)
[19:40] <mac_v> BUGabundo: hmm? i dint understand
[19:41] <NoelJB> click on the desktop/gnome/session and look in the right hand panel.  THERE is the key.  select it and click to edit.
[19:41] <arielCo> slacker_nl: true that. Then it's a job for a live CD. Thanks a bunch.
[19:41] <NoelJB> Quarth, right-click to edit, then click the Add button
[19:41] <BUGabundo> mac_v: humm the bug where he _asked_ you to stay put
[19:42] <BUGabundo> :)
[19:42] <Quarth> Ops! Sorry, now I get it -_-
[19:42] <NoelJB> Quarth, :-D
[19:42] <mac_v> BUGabundo: which?
[19:42] <BUGabundo> lol
[19:42] <BUGabundo> id ont  know
[19:42] <BUGabundo> I've read 150 other bugs
[19:42] <BUGabundo> :D
[19:42] <BUGabundo> don't you read bug mail ?
[19:42] <BUGabundo> ahah
[19:43] <mac_v> BUGabundo: you mean the panel bug? that was not for me ;p
[19:43] <mac_v> notification area*
[19:43] <BUGabundo> no idea , really
[19:43] <BUGabundo> I just saw both your emails on a follow up
[19:43] <Quarth> Great! Done, I'm going to restart the session now to chekc.
[19:44] <Quarth> Tx guys! I'll be back again in few seconds.
[19:44] <mac_v> BUGabundo: i assigned it to a package , then seb changed it  , and someone after me assigned it again to the same package i had assigned ;p
[19:44] <rumpel2> do i something wrong or do make most of the grub2-splashscreens the grubmenu hard to read? o.O
[19:45] <Andy80> I'm connecting to a VPN using NetworkManager on Ubuntu Karmic Beta. I can connect to it, but during connection all other connections are disconnected (I'm connected to my router using an ethernet cable): I see Skype reconnecting, Pidgin reconnecting ecc.... is there any way to avoid this? Is this a bug?
[19:45] <kiwnix> penguin42, looks like the problem is #442078 :(
[19:45] <BUGabundo> mac_v: Bug 294523
[19:45] <BUGabundo> its was colin, sorry
[19:45] <mac_v> BUGabundo: oh.. that , ;0
[19:45] <BUGabundo> eeh
[19:46] <yofel> rumpel2: you can modify the text color too
[19:46] <penguin42> kiwnix: Probably worth confirming it and subscribing then
[19:46] <mac_v> BUGabundo: hehe ,if you see , i clearly say , anyone can revert it back from a dup ... how can a Colin be not sure , if it is a dup and say , i know the code well ;p
[19:46] <kiwnix> i should register first, a long time away from ubuntu, returning now :D
[19:47] <BUGabundo> mac_v: I agree
[19:47] <Jeruvy> ok bug report linked to 439969, hopefully thats the right one.  seems to be a few duplicates
[19:47] <BUGabundo> I've seen many times bugs in apps, where ppl would say it did not exist in the code
[19:47] <NoelJB> bug #439969
[19:49] <andresmh> I installed libdvdcss2 but I am still getting this error when trying to play a DVD on VLC: "VLC cannot set the DVD's title. It possibly cannot decrypt the entire disc"
[19:50] <andresmh> any ideas?
[19:51] <Jeruvy> andresmh: you're one step further than I ;(  still researching.
[19:51] <andresmh> strange. I remember being able to play encrypted DVDs on Karmic before
[19:51] <Quarth> Great! Icons are back. I'm a bit idiot today, first I looked at the wrong place, after I wrote 'filemanger', and after 'fileanager' LOL
[19:51] <Quarth> Thanks!
[19:51] <andresmh> Jeruvy, what error are you getting Jeruvy ?
[19:51] <hosoka> Using laptop Compaq Presario CQ50 and there was at first 9.04 working great en hereafter upgraded to 9.10 which after reboot and the Grub keeps flashing and stops till the login. This keeps ongoing this flashing. Anyone reported this before ?
[19:52] <slacker_nl> arielCo: there is a way to override free disk space check
[19:53] <hosoka> Using laptop Compaq Presario CQ50 and there was at first 9.04 working great en hereafter upgraded to 9.10 which after reboot and the Grub keeps flashing and stops till the login. This keeps ongoing this flashing. Anyone reported this before ?
[19:53] <slacker_nl> arielCo: http://pb.opperschaap.net/51
[19:53] <arielCo> slacker_nl: going
[19:53] <ActionParsnip> hosoka: use the livecd to reinstall grub
[19:53] <rumpel2> yofel, i really miss some really nice splashscreens, which try to adapt to the grub-menu...  e.g. simply a nice frame for the menu... guess, i have to gimp a nice one by myself :)
[19:53] <ActionParsnip> !repeat | hosoka
[19:54] <Jeruvy> andersk: see bug above..
[19:54] <hosoka> ActionParship: Using laptop Compaq Presario CQ50 and there was at first 9.04 working great en hereafter upgraded to 9.10 which after reboot and the Grub keeps flashing and stops till the login. This keeps ongoing this flashing. Anyone reported this before ?
[19:54] <contrast> Greets, everyone...
[19:54] <hosoka> ubottu: thanks for the headsup
[19:54] <Jeruvy> andresmh: rather, see bug above
[19:54] <yofel> ActionParsnip: several hours ago counts as 'quickly'? o.O
[19:54] <contrast> Anyone know if/when the final release of Amarok 2.2 will be hitting the official repos, or if I'm gonna need to add a PPA for it?
[19:54] <yofel> !me | hosoka
[19:55] <hosoka> ActionParship: does this means that this issue is known when upgrading from 9.04 ?
[19:55] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, nice going :-)
[19:55] <hosoka> yofel: hi, it's me again. Coming back as I didn't got a satisfied answer earlier.
[19:56] <yofel> contrast: it's in the repos but a part of it is constantly failing to build, so just be patient
[19:56] <Jeruvy> w64codecs are working great :)  playing .ram
[19:56] <yofel> contrast: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/amarok/2:2.2.0-0ubuntu1 if you want to follow it.
[19:57] <slacker_nl> arielCo: http://pb.opperschaap.net/52
[19:57] <contrast> yofel: Cool, thanks for the info... I was only curious since the RC showed up so quickly.
[19:57] <arielCo> that's DistUpgradeController.py or DistUpgradeController.py?
[19:57] <arielCo> ok, going
[19:57] <DeMus> How are the chances that the beta version of KK 9.10 will crash?
[19:57] <penguin42> DeMus: It happens - it's a beta
[19:57] <mac_v> BUGabundo: i would have responded on the bug , saying that and calling out Colin, but thought not worth it :) /me was too busy now fixing stuff with Humanity ;p
[19:57] <DeMus> I mean one month before d-day it should be almost okay, wouldn't it?
[19:57] <yofel> DeMus: depends on your hardware, test the beta on a live disk if you want to make sure
[19:58] <Freeaqingme> DeMus, I upgraded and it didn't want to boot at all. (did a fresh install and all worked fine though)
[19:58] <slacker_nl> arielCo: find /tmp -name karmic, then you will see some tmp<randomstring> and apply the patch, then run ./karmic and see what happens
[19:58] <hosoka> ActionParship: is the livecd the only solution to fix this issue ? Is there no other commands to solve the upgrade instead or will be more updates coming up to fix this.
[19:58] <hosoka> Using laptop Compaq Presario CQ50 and there was at first 9.04 working great en hereafter upgraded to 9.10 which after reboot and the Grub keeps flashing and stops till the login. This keeps ongoing this flashing. Anyone reported this before ?
[19:58] <DeMus> Well, I'm not into upgrading at all, when I chance to KK I will do a full install to get a nice fresh installation
[19:59] <Jeruvy> hosoka: using a cg60 fine, try a fresh install.
[19:59] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, yofel, arielCo  bug #106804
[20:00] <NoelJB> see also: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/106804/comments/6
[20:00] <yofel> NoelJB: interesting, thx
[20:00] <hosoka> Jeruvy: thanks, this means that I do need a clean install. I also noticed that most of recommendations was to use the Live CD.
[20:01] <slacker_nl> click
[20:01] <hosoka> oh well, there is nothing up to it then I believe.
[20:01] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: good find
[20:01] <wekt> DeMus, what graphics card do you have?
[20:01] <NoelJB> I don't know if I should mark the new one as a dup and re-open the bug, or just make a note.
[20:02] <DeMus> nVidia 8500 GT
[20:02] <DeMus> Why?
[20:02] <arielCo> NoelJB: that's the one. Guess mine's a duplicate?
[20:02] <Jeruvy> hosoka: My upgrade went badly also..fresh was fine.  Now all I need fixed is dvd playback and I'm calling this a win :)
[20:02] <NoelJB> arielCo, except that it SHOULD have been fixed.
[20:03] <NoelJB> I just looked at Michael's patch, which should have done it.
[20:03] <hulio> Hello! Been having popping sounds coming from my Audigy2. Anyone else having popping sounds?
[20:03] <wekt> DeMus, because mostly intel is good, but right now there is bug 343528 crashing.  & intel slowness.
[20:03] <arielCo> NoelJB: yeah, the patch is 2 yr old but didn't make it into any release. Good grief.
[20:03] <DeMus> wekt: why you asked?
[20:04] <DeMus> Okay, yes I heard about it
[20:04] <arielCo> slacker_nl: I found a tiny script named 'karmic' under /tmp, but it's a trivial "from DistUpgradeMain import main"
[20:04] <hosoka> Jeruvy: I am gona try it also. Realy sad that it needs a clean install. Hoping upgrade would be ok as I didn't got bad experience with upgrading to previous 9.10 alfa releases.
[20:04] <slacker_nl> arielCo: yes, cd into that dir
[20:04] <arielCo> slacker_nl: !!
[20:04] <slacker_nl> then apply the patch i gave yo
[20:05] <NoelJB> arielCo, if it is marked as Fix Released, it is SUPPOSED to actually be IN a release.  Fix Committed is for when it is only in source control somewhere.
[20:05] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: it is in the sources, but it doesn't work
[20:05] <slacker_nl> what I don't get is why /var is mentioned and not /var/cache/apt
[20:05] <DeMus> I saw KK will have kernel 2.6.31, I had problems with that one so I returned to 2.6.30 in Jaunty. In 2.6.31 my sensors were not detected
[20:05] <yofel> hulio: popping after about 10s?
[20:05] <hulio> Yes, yofel. And before music programs start to play the song.\
[20:06] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, I'll let Michael look at it, for now.
[20:06] <DeMus> Will KK also work with 2.6.30 just incase?
[20:06] <slacker_nl> DeMus: yes
[20:06] <DeMus> That's good to know
[20:07] <TDJACR> NetworkManager doesn't get an IP (I need to use dhclient) and I have tons of messages before the graphic boot kicks in.
[20:07] <yofel> hulio: that's cause in karmic the sound card get's turned on and off instead of being suspended. In this case you should file a bug on launchpad with 'ubuntu-bug linux' if I'm not mistaken
[20:07] <TDJACR> Oh, wlan fails too
[20:07] <TDJACR> But it looks Okay
[20:07] <arielCo> NoelJB: I'm not sure I understand - "Fix Released" is incorrect for this bug?
[20:07] <DanaG> argh, for some reason, my Karmic now just hangs after trying to start apparmor.
[20:07] <hulio> yofel, I'm a launchpad newbie....so do I go to Karmic's page on Launchpad then file it?
[20:07] <DanaG> Mysteriously hangs.
[20:09] <yofel> hulio: no, please open a terminal (Applications->Accessories->Terminal) and type 'ubuntu-bug linux' in there. You'll need a lauchpad account for that though.
[20:10] <hulio> Thank you!
[20:10] <hulio> yofel, :-)
[20:10] <yofel> hulio: np
[20:10] <NoelJB> arielCo, Fix Released means that it is actually in the Ubuntu released packages.  Apparently not for you.  I'm going to look at the code I have here, and at Michael's patch, to see.
[20:13] <TDJACR> Any idea why my touchpad can't two-finger scroll anymore?
[20:13] <mac_v> NoelJB , arielCo: which bug are you guys talking about?
[20:14] <TDJACR> Or why my system hangs randomly :p
[20:14] <mac_v> TDJACR: its now either 2finger or edge scrolling
[20:14] <NoelJB> mac_v, bug 442456 and bug 106804.  The latter has a patch.  I wonder if it failed because the patch has a typo in the file name?
[20:14] <DanaG> ugh, I can't figure out why my restored-from-backup Karmic is hanging on boot.
[20:14] <NoelJB> mac_v, two 'l's in Controller :-)
[20:14] <NoelJB> the patch has 1
[20:14] <DanaG> It goes through apparmor loading, then two lines like this, then hangs:
[20:14] <DanaG> Done.
[20:14] <DanaG> Done.
[20:14] <hulio> yofel, so this popping sound is a known problem?

[20:15]  * mac_v checks
[20:15] <yofel> hulio: yes, dtchen would know more about it
[20:16] <hulio> dtchen, Do you know any information about SoundCards popping on & off in Karmic?
[20:16] <NoelJB> interesting ... $  dpkg -L update-manager-core | grep -F DistUpgradeController.py
[20:16] <NoelJB> /usr/share/pyshared/DistUpgrade/DistUpgradeController.py
[20:16] <NoelJB> /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/DistUpgrade/DistUpgradeController.py
[20:16] <NoelJB> /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/DistUpgrade/DistUpgradeController.py
[20:16] <NoelJB> now to see about the patch ...
[20:16] <mac_v> arielCo , NoelJB : lol  , sometimes bugs happen again... the initial bug was ages ago ;p
[20:16] <NoelJB> mac_v, but the bug is (still|again) present :-)
[20:17] <NoelJB> mac_v, looking at the live code to check.
[20:17] <mac_v> yeah , as i said , it might have started again :)
[20:17] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: the patch should be applied to the sources delivered by karmic.tgz
[20:18] <Moc> I never had soo much force close windows popup in linux than in this beta hehe
[20:19] <NoelJB> OK, there's only one file.  The other two are symlinks ...
[20:19] <mac_v> NoelJB: you could tag the bug , regression-potential , that would give it more prominence
[20:20] <NoelJB> mac_v, done, thanks.
[20:21] <TDJACR> mac_v: Thank you
[20:21] <mac_v> np :)
[20:21] <NoelJB> mac_v, ok the code appears to be totally different from two years ago.  nothing in common, unless I've found the wrong place to look.
[20:22] <TDJACR> Pidgin still seems nicer
[20:23] <TDJACR> !grub2
[20:23] <DanaG> ugh, stupid boot hang.
[20:23] <NoelJB> OK, seems to be DistUpgradeCache.py --- that's the only place that checks freespace
[20:24] <TDJACR> When I boot I get i8042.c: No controller found:
[20:24] <arielCo> slacker_nl: patched, relocated /var/cache/apt/archives again, ran sudo ./karmic (this one uses a dialog), bombed again. Should I delete the .pyc?
[20:25] <arielCo> df -h /var/cache/apt/archives/: Avail = 2.2 GB
[20:27] <kulight> is there a way to automatically recreate the files that makes the boot menu in grub 2 ?
[20:27] <arielCo> slacker_nl: should I also use http://pb.opperschaap.net/51 ?
[20:28] <yofel> kulight: 'sudo update-grub'
[20:28] <yofel> !grub2 | kulight
[20:28] <yofel> kulight: or do you mean to complete /boot/grub/ folder?
[20:29] <kulight> yofel: this only reads the files that are already there and create the menu in my case the file for mem test is gone and i want to recreate the file
[20:30] <slacker_nl> arielCo: no, no need to remove the .pyc, if the .py has changed python knows it needs to recompile the stuff and will not use the .pyc file and 51 is not needed
[20:30] <basso> :3
[20:30] <basso> How do i fix the ATI maximize lag?
[20:30] <slacker_nl> arielCo: you still get the warning?
[20:30] <basso> hear rumors on X-server no backfill thingi
[20:31] <yofel> kulight: you mean you are missing /boot/mentest86+.bin ?
[20:31] <arielCo> slacker_nl: now I see it recompiled and I see that you just changed the path from /var to /var/cache..., but I'm not sure I patched the file in the right path
[20:31] <arielCo> yes, I still get it
[20:31] <slacker_nl> arielCo: cd /tmp/tmp<randomstring> ; patch < thepatch.patch
[20:31] <kulight> yofel: mentest86 is installed but not showing in the grub menu
[20:32] <arielCo> right that - then I ran "sudo ./karmic"
[20:32] <yofel> kulight: in that case 'sudo apt-get install --reinstall memtest86+'
[20:32] <yofel> kulight: what I meant was if you have the mentest .bin file
[20:32] <slacker_nl> arielCo: mkay
[20:32] <slacker_nl> we need a different solution then
[20:32] <arielCo> oh, I see
[20:33] <arielCo> you check /var/cache/apt and I symlinked ./archives  :)
[20:33] <arielCo> will try again
[20:33] <slacker_nl> lol
[20:33] <kulight> yofel: iv'e tried that one but no luck ill try again
[20:33] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, what are you telling arielCo to change?  what's the patch, again?
[20:33] <yofel> kulight: please tell me if you have /boot/memtest86+.bin - all I want to know is if you have that file
[20:33] <arielCo> should I change the path in the script, or relocate again?
[20:33] <arielCo> noeljb: http://pb.opperschaap.net/51
[20:34] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: pb.opperschaap.net/52
[20:34] <arielCo> noeljb: my bad, http://pb.opperschaap.net/52
[20:34] <kulight> yofel: yes its there
[20:35] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: i've asked him to patch the files in /tmp/tmp<randomstring> where do-release-upgrade stores all the files it will use to do th eupgrade
[20:35] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, are you sure that will even help?  the /var does not appear to be checked.  the archivedir is what matters.
[20:35] <yofel> kulight: ok, do you have /etc/grub.d/20_memtest86+ and is the script executable?
[20:35] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: not 100% sure
[20:35] <TDJACR> mac_v: I have no sound now :O
[20:36] <mac_v> TDJACR: there you go ... welcome to karmic and the amazing pulseaudio ;p
[20:36] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, that loop only CHECKS free space.  Go down to line 1054.  That's where free space is CHECKED.
[20:36] <TDJACR> mac_v: I had to compile it on Jaunty
[20:36] <TDJACR> mac_v: Alsa, that is
[20:36] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: lemme see
[20:36] <NoelJB> sorry.  it is computed where you said, and CHECKED starting at 1054
[20:36] <kulight> yofel: /etc/grub.d/20_memtest86+.dpkg-dist is executable
[20:36] <TDJACR> mac_v: MBP 5,3?
[20:37] <basso> anyone running 9.10 on ati gfx?
[20:38] <yofel> kulight: ok... the .dpkg-dist part shouldn't be there
[20:38] <yofel> kulight: can you try to rename the file?
[20:38] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, ooo I think I see a possibility.  REMOVE /var from the first loop.
[20:38] <kulight> yofel: is there a way to recreate the files in this folder /etc/grub.d/?
[20:38] <kulight> yofel: yes sure im on it
[20:39] <yofel> kulight: well, the 20_memtest86+ script is part of the memtest86+ package so the reinstall from before *should* have re-created it...
[20:40] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: it loops through fsfree, which is a dictionary which is filled by that first loop, and then it checks wheter the space is enough
[20:40] <mac_v> TDJACR: sound is a mess i know not much of ;)
[20:40] <kulight> yofel: renaming worked that you
[20:40] <yofel> kulight: I don't get though why the file had the wrong name o.O
[20:41] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: I think it might just work with /var/cache/apt, but removing /var could also do the trick
[20:41] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, yes.  there are actually three (3) loops, starting at 992 (figure out what free space we have), 1040 (figure out what we need), 1054 (figure out what failed).
[20:41] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: jep
[20:42] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, and do you see the 1040 loop do anything with /var?
[20:42] <kulight> yofel: i have installed windows after i have installed Ubuntu it messed things up a bit i also had to manually create the windows file
[20:43] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: if archivedir is /var/apt/cache yes
[20:43] <virtuald> will ubuntu ever go as insane as fedora and removing /dev/dsp?
[20:43] <slacker_nl> /var/cache/apt i mean
[20:43] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, that's a separate entry, no?
[20:43] <arielCo> slacker_nl, NoelJB: apparently it worked :) "Getting new packages"
[20:43] <NoelJB> arielCo, what worked?  what change did you make?
[20:44] <yofel> virtuald: thankfully not /yet/
[20:44] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: /var/apt/cache is a seperate entry yes
[20:44] <virtuald> i hope they don't do it for lucid
[20:44] <arielCo> slacker_nl, NoelJB: /var/cache/apt -> /var/cache/apt/archives. On top of Slacker's patch
[20:45] <TDJACR> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro5-3/Karmic is wrong, .32 isn't out.
[20:45] <TDJACR> And sound doesn't wotk
[20:45] <NoelJB> that probably made that entry redundant with the archivedir entry
[20:45] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: jep
[20:46] <volkodav> Anybody has this problem with nvidia-settings when I add set up the twin view and try to save X to config it saus can not parse the file and crashes
[20:46] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: removing the /var entry would be enough
[20:46] <volkodav> every reboot I have to do it all over again?
[20:46] <yofel> volkodav: you're the second today with that problem, iirc moving the original xorg.conf fixed it
[20:47] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: or would do the same in this case
[20:47] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: it should check diskspace for /var but for /var/cache/apt of whatever the location is of the archivedir
[20:47] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: s/should/should not/
[20:47] <volkodav> moving meanin renaming or what ?
[20:48] <arielCo> slacker_nl, NoelJB: yup, in short, that's what slacker's patch does. /var -> /var/cache/apt/archives
[20:48] <yofel> volkodav: that would work too
[20:48] <volkodav> hmm let's see
[20:49] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, see the comment I made in the bug report.
[20:50] <NoelJB> I can't mark it triaged, but hopefully mvo will see it and make the fix quickly.
[20:51] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: i agree with the comment you made in the bug report
[20:52] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, feel free to comment.
[20:52] <NoelJB> I'm going to prep a quick patch if someone wants to try it.
[20:52] <volkodav> yofel: thanks it worked
[20:55] <TDJACR> Anyone have any solution for sound on a Macbook Pro 5,3 and backlight on the same model
[20:55] <Martyn> TDJACR: I'm working on sound
[20:55] <TDJACR> Martyn: Cool
[20:55] <Martyn> TDJACR : but I don't think we'll have a backlight solution for a while.
[20:55] <Martyn> TDJACR : It turns out the sound chip is the same as the one I'm using on a different platform, so it's a side-effect of my solution
[20:56] <TDJACR> Martyn: It worked in Jaunty.
[20:56] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, arielCo, yofel see the patch I put on bug 442456
[20:56] <TDJACR> Both did, sound took some extra effort
[20:57] <Martyn> TDJACR : Yes, but the driver now has to work with pulse
[20:57] <Martyn> which has changed fundamentally .. like I said, it -will- work, but I'll need to work on it for a bit
[20:57] <TDJACR> Martyn: Okay, cool.
[20:57] <TDJACR> Martyn: How long do you think this'll take?
[20:58] <Martyn> week
[20:58] <NoelJB> TDJACR, I like Ubuntu, but out of curiosity, why buy a Mac, paying premium and getting Mac OS X, and then install linux?  answer privately if you wish.
[20:58] <Martyn> Mac isn't my primary focus .. it's a MID/Media Player that I work on that has the same hardware
[20:58] <Martyn> NoelJB : Um .. I do the same thing :)
[20:59] <arielCo> slacker_nl, NoelJB: looks even better - I didn't know the path is variable
[20:59] <Martyn> NoelJB : Triple booting Windows 7 (Work requirement for developer tools on ARM), OS X (I like OS X), and 9.10 (duh, cause I work on that too)
[21:00] <TDJACR> Martyn: Please PM me when done if possible
[21:01] <Martyn> TDJACR : Keep your eye on launchpad
[21:01] <Martyn> and subscribe to the bug
[21:01] <Martyn> I can't remember everyone who is affected, after all :)
[21:01] <TDJACR> NoelJB: It was purchased for me, as a gift from a conglomerate of friends.
[21:01] <NoelJB> TDJACR, nice friends :-D
[21:01] <TDJACR> Martyn: Okay, no problem, thanks. Would you happen to have the bug link?
[21:01] <TDJACR> NoelJB: Yeah, lots of them.
[21:02] <TDJACR> NoelJB: But I got the 5,3 from apple because the original one was defective.
[21:02] <TDJACR> It was a 3,1
[21:02] <Martyn> TDJACR :Not offhand.  I'll look it up
[21:03] <Freeaqingme> Is it worth to report that the installer damaged 25% of my files while resizing an ext3 partition?
[21:03] <slacker_nl> NoelJB, arielCo: I think we resolved a bug today ;)
[21:04] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, would be nice :-)
[21:04] <TDJACR> Martyn: Thank you
[21:04] <Martyn> Freeaqingme: If there is no current bug reported, yes.
[21:04] <Martyn> that would be a very good idea to report it, and how to reproduce too
[21:04] <slacker_nl> does anyone know how long it takes before a changelog is put on changelogs.u.c?
[21:04] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, and it is nice when a bug can be fixed by REMOVING code :-)
[21:05] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: very true :)
[21:05] <Freeaqingme> Martyn, I love my data too much to even try to reproduce :P
[21:05] <arielCo> slacker_nl, NoelJB: yeah, will it make it into karmic?
[21:05] <slacker_nl> arielCo: i do think so, if it will not make the initial release it should be in -updates
[21:05] <NoelJB> arielCo, that's up to whomever has commit rights.  if it were NetworkManager or ModemManager, I'd have a better chance of saying.
[21:06] <NoelJB> Since I've already made fixes to those packages and had them included.
[21:06] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: networkmanager you say :)
[21:06]  * NoelJB looks around for an exit.
[21:06] <slacker_nl> haha
[21:06] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, LOL yeah.  Dare I ask why you ask?
[21:08] <arielCo> slacker_nl, NoelJB: haha, I get it. I do believe in taking care of small things; one bug down, couple of thousands to go ;)
[21:08] <TDJACR> Since the backlight isn't a package, how do I file the proper bug?
[21:08] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: i have some issues with network manager which does not respect the mapping stanza
[21:09] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: it is reported upstream, but i've seen no action..
[21:09] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: bug 413622
[21:09] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, I haven't looked at that code at all.  I've worked on some issues with modems (udev related stuff) and a few other things in NM.
[21:10] <TDJACR> I also get USB_id[453]: Unable to access /devices/pci...... on boot
[21:10] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: k, the fix is pretty easy, just disable the startup scripts :)
[21:10] <michaelj> Karmic Koala - intel 915 graphics driver,  in Alpha 6 Kernel Mode Setting enabled, in 9.10 Beta, Kernel setting mode no longer enabled
[21:11] <slacker_nl> although now with upstart..
[21:11] <michaelj> :(
[21:11] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, have you tried the PPA code?  I know that there have been some fixes in that area.  I had similar problems.
[21:11] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: nope, what is the PPA?
[21:11] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, https://launchpad.net/~network-manager/+archive/trunk/+packages
[21:11] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: I removed NM, don't use it.. :)
[21:12] <michaelj> i was able to set it up again in /etc/initramfs - but i'm unsure if this is because i'm upgrading from the alpha, or if it's actually regressed in teh Beta
[21:12] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, and #nm is where those of us who pretend to play with the code hang out.
[21:13] <NoelJB> Amaranth, that Intel KMS issue anything you'd know about?
[21:13] <Amaranth> NoelJB: yeah, intel_agp is loading after i915
[21:13] <Amaranth> NoelJB: There is a workaround but it doesn't work 100%
[21:13] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, well, if you want help, you need to reinstall it so that we can reproduce and fix.  :-)
[21:13] <NoelJB> Amaranth, have something we can point michaelj at?
[21:14] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Not really, even with the workaround you end up having to reboot a couple times to fix it
[21:14] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: will do that, it has been reproduced already btw (dunno if you looked at bug report)
[21:14] <Amaranth> bug 430694
[21:14] <NoelJB> michaelj, see above ^^^^
[21:14] <slacker_nl> anywayz, reboot time, see if guessnet upgrade fixes a bug i reported today
[21:15] <michaelj> Amaranth, NoelJB, thanks guys
[21:15] <TDJACR> Martyn: Was that url ever posted?
[21:15] <michaelj> Amaranth, NoelJB, i managed to figure out that workaround, was checking if it was filed
[21:16] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, FWIW: 20090804t185522.4bab334-0ubuntu1 -- I am really sure that there were fixes after that.  :-)
[21:16] <michaelj> Amaranth, NoelJB job done :)
[21:16] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, as I said, I had very similar issues.
[21:19] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: that is from the PPA?
[21:19] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, that was the version you reported to have.  Mine is 0.8~a~git.20090930t162132.866d48b-0ubuntu1~nmt1
[21:20] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: k
[21:20] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, changelog at http://cgit.freedesktop.org/NetworkManager/NetworkManager/log/
[21:20] <TDJACR> Now I'm split once again between Arch and Ubuntu
[21:20] <slacker_nl> click
[21:21] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, I believe that the fixes on Sept 4 are what you want.  I spent a lot of time with dan and asac in the IRC doing testing.
[21:24] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: looks like it, to bad the keyserver is slow again..
[21:24] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: that change hasn't made it into karmic yet?
[21:25] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, should have.  Not sure what is in the beta.
[21:25] <cybersplice> Anyone having problems with nzb exploding when you try and do.. .well anything?
[21:25] <AlienX> anyone seeing an issue where they get a blue/aqua hue on videos?
[21:25] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: should be in there i guess 0.8~a~git.20090923t064445.b20cef2-0ubuntu2
[21:25] <NoelJB> looks like the beta is 0.8~a~git.20090923t064445.b20cef2-0ubuntu2
[21:25] <ikt> have there been any updates recently?
[21:26] <AlienX> ikt, yeah, daily lol
[21:26] <slacker_nl> ikt: it is a development release, there are daily updates :)
[21:26] <ikt> hrmm
[21:26] <NoelJB> ikt, define lately.  200+ since thursday.
[21:26] <ikt> I think I might have something wrong
[21:26] <ikt> I haven't had any updates for about a week
[21:26] <ikt> think my local mirror isn't updating, cheers  :)
[21:26] <slacker_nl> ikt: i had the same thing, then I remembered I pinned all my packages :D
[21:27] <ikt> pinned?
[21:27] <slacker_nl> ikt: a way to make sure you don't upgrade certain packages
[21:27] <ikt> ah ok
[21:27] <slacker_nl> google apt pinning if you want to know more about it
[21:28] <ikt> done and done :)
[21:29] <NoelJB> ikt, My dpkg log has 361 installs since 9/30
[21:30] <BUGabundo> that's all?
[21:30] <BUGabundo> lol
[21:31] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, LOL that's just a grep in the file.  I didn
[21:31] <NoelJB> t check the even bigger one right before.
[21:31] <NoelJB> ikt, what happens if you go to a command line and enter sudo apt-get update; sudo aptitude safe-upgrade ?
[21:31] <BUGabundo> eheh
[21:32] <BUGabundo> I do that every day
[21:32] <BUGabundo> better yet
[21:32] <BUGabundo> aptitude
[21:32] <BUGabundo> $ sudo aptitude update ; sudo aptitude safe-upgrade ; sudo aptitude full-upgrade
[21:32] <BUGabundo> once or twice daily
[21:32] <slacker_nl> i hardly do the full-upgrade
[21:32] <slacker_nl> as in never actually
[21:32] <BUGabundo> me neither
[21:32] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, but only 4000 installs since sept 1.
[21:32] <ikt> 0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[21:32] <BUGabundo> I just check to see if something is jammed
[21:33]  * BUGabundo updates
[21:33] <BUGabundo> I just upgrade 1h ago
[21:33] <BUGabundo> its weekend so should be calm
[21:33] <slacker_nl> if I do a full upgrade now, it will upgrade libc6 and that upgrade means b0rkage
[21:33] <NoelJB> language pack appears upgraded
[21:34] <NoelJB> and the new modemmanager in the PPA is ready to install
[21:35] <NoelJB> ikt, what did the apt-get update show?  you should have seen it try to download files.
[21:35] <ikt> http://mirror.internode.on.net/pub/ubuntu/ubuntu/
[21:36] <ikt> wp[s
[21:36] <ikt> opps*
[21:36] <ikt> it went through the usual, and then said no updates
[21:37] <BUGabundo> Current status: 7 updates [+7], 1876 new [+1].
[21:37] <BUGabundo>   language-pack-en language-pack-en-base language-pack-gnome-en language-pack-gnome-en-base language-pack-kde-en   language-pack-kde-en-base modemmanager
[21:37] <ikt> http://pastebin.com/m16b346ab
[21:37] <BUGabundo> there goes my net :D
[21:37] <ikt> I don't think the mirror is updating
[21:39] <NoelJB> ikt, are you hard-coded to a mirror?  My list looks totally different: http://pastebin.com/m1f54bc6a
[21:39] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: nope, nm still bugs me
[21:39] <ikt> yeah
[21:39] <ikt> I've got internode (my isp) as my mirror
[21:39] <NoelJB> ikt, try going back to the "normal" way
[21:39] <ikt> that way updates aren't counted towards my usage (yay)
[21:39] <NoelJB> ikt, ah, but ...
[21:40] <BUGabundo> NoelJB: you have WAY too many pockets
[21:40] <BUGabundo> you don't need security or updates
[21:40] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, I will
[21:40] <BUGabundo> during devel cicles
[21:40] <yofel> meh, amarok ketting kept back is starting to get annyoing
[21:40] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, I know.
[21:41] <ikt> ok yep, changing back 277MB worth of update
[21:41] <ikt> so mirror is not updating, cheers all :)
[21:43] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, oddly ... someone commented yesterday about 2.6.32 being in karmic backports, but I don't see anything in there when I look.
[21:44] <BUGabundo> let me check LP
[21:44] <BUGabundo> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/
[21:45] <BUGabundo> humm
[21:45] <BUGabundo> is it me or aint that link opening ??
[21:45] <BUGabundo> LP down?
[21:46] <yofel> BUGabundo: wfm
[21:47] <BUGabundo> :(
[21:47] <BUGabundo> not here
[21:47] <BUGabundo> well then, yofel can you check what NoelJB said?
[21:47] <ikt> lp is sooo slow
[21:48] <NoelJB> opened for me, BUGabundo .  but I don't see anything about ANYTHING being in karmic backports anywhere.
[21:48] <NoelJB> so I have no idea to what that person was referring.
[21:48] <BUGabundo> yeah I would thoutg so too
[21:48] <BUGabundo> only chance would we have something on Security
[21:48] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: i responded to your reproduce error, attached daemon.log and apt-cache policy info
[21:48] <BUGabundo> but TOOO soon for that
[21:48] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, :-)
[21:48] <BUGabundo> only after RC
[21:49] <BUGabundo> NoelJB: could it be jaunty by mistake?
[21:49] <slacker_nl> greee
[21:49] <slacker_nl> where is my comment?!?
[21:50] <slacker_nl> there it is.. pffff
[21:50] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, 2.6.32 in jaunty?  no clue.  haven't looked.  could reboot and try.  nothing could make jaunty worse than it is.
[21:50] <mm_202> Anyone else have an issue with the 9.10 x64 DVD not showing the plasma desktop (ran as the LiveCD)?
[21:51] <NoelJB> (for me)
[21:51] <BUGabundo> NoelJB: of course not
[21:51] <BUGabundo> maybe s/he made a version mistake
[21:52] <slacker_nl> cheers all
[21:52] <slacker_nl> i'm going to bed
[21:52] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: nice meeting you
[21:52] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, well, since for me, jaunty kernel traps regularly, it is basically a playpen until I purge it.  I'll do a clean install of karmic over it, and after I make sure that everything from my current karmic is taken care of, I'll reuse my current karmic for lucid.
[21:52] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, same.  by the way, does the _nl imply netherlands?
[21:52] <slacker_nl> NoelJB: yes :)
[21:53] <NoelJB> slacker_nl, where?
[21:53] <slacker_nl> amsterdam
[21:53] <zmjjmz> so is there any reason why the Broadcom STA driver won't activate?
[21:53] <NoelJB> ah, lovely place.  Been there every year for the past 5 or so.
[21:53] <slacker_nl> that is nice :)
[21:54] <BUGabundo> NoelJB: I just pile alpha version on top of my running alpha version
[21:54] <BUGabundo> can't wait for tool chaing to open
[21:54] <BUGabundo> will miss all of you guyes
[21:54] <BUGabundo> after #releaseparty :(
[21:55] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, why miss us?
[21:55] <BUGabundo> I like you guys
[21:55] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, so where are you or we going?
[21:55] <BUGabundo> I've been on this # for the last 3 yearss
[21:55] <BUGabundo> we get attached
[21:55] <BUGabundo> NoelJB: you don't know??
[21:55] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, nope.  what?
[21:55] <BUGabundo> this # gets closed a few days after release!
[21:55] <BUGabundo> and then reopens only after toolchain
[21:56] <BUGabundo> which mean at least 2 weeks without our bonding
[21:56] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, oh, I never noticed.  Well, I'll be back as soon as it opens, too.
[21:56] <BUGabundo> not that I've been much active here lattely
[21:56] <BUGabundo> but new job takes most of my time
[21:56] <NoelJB> BUGabundo, and I find that it helps to do a clean install every once in a while.  I have, for example, two karmic installs.  one from scratch, one from jaunty.  they actually behave differently.
[21:57] <BUGabundo> my last system run from 6.10 beta till karmic A2 :)
[21:57] <BUGabundo> only recently I did a clean install :)
[21:58] <BUGabundo> I remember reading Charlie-tca he still had a 4.10 upgraded up to jaunty :D
[21:59] <cyberix> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mesa-utils/+bug/442574
[22:00] <Ian_Corne> we couild create ubuntu+1.01 !
[22:00] <BUGabundo> hen?
[22:01] <BUGabundo> it does?
[22:01]  * BUGabundo goes testing
[22:01] <BUGabundo> 8928 frames in 5.0 seconds
[22:01] <BUGabundo> runs well in here
[22:01] <BUGabundo> with nvidia
[22:02] <Ian_Corne> runs good here too
[22:02] <Ian_Corne> with fglrx
[22:03] <cyberix> it must be something related to my video card
[22:03] <minimec> glxgears working here with ATI X1250
[22:04] <cyberix> Could someone take a look at the xorg log I attached?
[22:05] <test34> glxgears works fine here too
[22:06] <cyberix> (EE) Failed to load module "i810" (module does not exist, 0)
[22:06] <cyberix> is this a problem
[22:06] <cyberix> or is it just trying to load stuff by trial and error?
[22:07] <cyberix> There is also a "(EE) GLX error: Can not get required symbols." later
[22:07] <cyberix> but I have no idea what that means
[22:07] <Ian_Corne> how long ago did you update cyberix ?
[22:07] <Ian_Corne> i had that error before
[22:08] <ArkoldThos> heya, I just upgraded to Kubuntu Karmic (beta 1) and it just doesnt boots
[22:08] <ArkoldThos> takes forever on the first screen, then the display goes black
[22:09] <DanaG> grr, danged upstart is such a pain to debug.
[22:09] <DanaG> When things fail to mount, mountall just plain hangs.
[22:09] <yofel> DanaG: +1
[22:10] <ArkoldThos> anyone got the same problem than me? :(
[22:10] <DanaG> I've been wrangling with that for the past 4 or so hours.
[22:10] <DanaG> Failure to boot... just hangs after apparmor, apparently at mountall.
[22:10] <yofel> I missed a number in my /home uuid 2 days ago an couldn't even get into repair mode *-.-
[22:10] <test34> ArkoldThos, maybe look at bugs 431812 & 428920
[22:10] <DanaG> I finally figured out that alt-sysrq-E terminates stuff without causing a panic.
[22:10] <test34> 428920
[22:10] <DanaG> And now, gdm doesn't start automatically.
[22:10] <ArkoldThos> thanks test34
[22:11] <yofel> DanaG: what? you now too? That makes at least more than 5 here with that issue, kdm still starts fine here
[22:11] <test34> I guess the bot only parses the first bug number he sees
[22:12] <DanaG> ... and that's when it even manages to boot.
[22:12] <yofel> DanaG: does 'initctl list' give any clue as to why it doesn't start?
[22:12] <DanaG> oh, and I found out that not backing up things with "tmp" and "cache" as parts of the path, breaks stuff.
[22:13] <DanaG> http://pastebin.com/f74a8471d
[22:15] <yofel> DanaG: hm... as I undestand upstart gdm should start once mountall and hal finish loading...
[22:15] <DanaG> mountall seems to not finish; that's part of it.
[22:15] <DanaG> and hal is ignoring my fdi files, for some reason.
[22:16] <yang_> Hey, is there a reason I cant hard set DNS in Karmic for my own local server?
[22:17] <yofel> yang_: you mean you can't set a dns in nm-applet?
[22:17] <yang_> while actually from the /etc/resolv.conf file
[22:17] <yang_> changed the contents entirely to nameserver <IP_ADDRESS>
[22:17] <yofel> not sure about that, but nm-applet is having configuration issues at the moment
[22:17] <yang_> O, okay.
[22:18] <yang_> KDE Knetworkmanger is worse.
[22:18] <cyberix> Ian_Corne, I checked. I was lacking two updates to libffi
[22:18] <yang_> i cant even get that to connect to hidden wpa network
[22:18] <peol> Uh, quick question, is there any answer to why the option to set individual sound effects has been removed in Karmic, e.g. set mail notification sound etc.?
[22:18] <cyberix> Ian_Corne, I hope that doesn't affect this problem :-D
[22:18] <DanaG> damnit, hal, stop ignoring me, or I'll start pulling your circuit boards out.
[22:18] <DanaG> =þ
[22:19] <yofel> ^^
[22:21] <DanaG> fdi cache regeneration failed!
[22:21] <DanaG> that's what it says.
[22:26] <Jeruvy> seems I'm missing a plugin for dvd playback, "gstreamer element dvdspu"  anyone have a idea where I can find it?
[22:26] <Freeaqingme> ubuntu-restricted-extras ?
[22:26] <volkodav> I don't get the reason they switched to this half done empathy from pidgin ?
[22:29] <peol> volkodav: Me neither to be honest, I wiped it out and installed Pidgin again, Empathy is nowhere near to be default IM functionality-wise.
[22:29] <Jeruvy> Freeaqingme: thought I had that one, but I didn't.  thanks.
[22:29] <volkodav> true peol
[22:29] <volkodav> no plugins
[22:29] <volkodav> poor thing
[22:34] <volkodav> I want to uncheck flash plugin and thw wrapper from ubuntu-restricted-extras
[22:34] <volkodav> and can't seem to find the way in this new Software center
[22:34] <volkodav> will do cli
[22:35] <NoelJB> ah, they just released a fix for one of the grub 2 self-destruct bugs: bug 439784
[22:35] <NoelJB> that's the one that bit me yesterday.
[22:36] <nlogax> hello! i just installed the 9.10 beta on my imac. most things seem to be working. sound, however, always comes from the crappy internal speakers, even when something else is plugged into the output jack.
[22:36] <nlogax> dunno if it's a beta issue or not, since i (foolishly?) installed the beta on my first attempt.
[22:36] <DanaG> ugh, now it's giving "invalid environment block" at grub.
[22:36] <nlogax> anyone know anything about it?
[22:39] <NoelJB> Martyn, is the iMac audio the same as the audio you're working on?
[22:39] <NoelJB> DanaG, it is?  see bug 439784 (above).  They just released the fix, and the bug report describes work-a-around.
[22:40] <DanaG> ah yeah, I booted  by removing the lines.
[22:40] <NoelJB> DanaG, I believe that colin has been really frustrated with that, wanting to know why the file keeps getting corrupted.
[22:40] <DanaG> anyway, gdm still didn't start, and last time it tried, I got a crashdump.
[22:43] <ArkoldThos> now when I click on other partition (NTFS) returns me: org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.Volume.InvalidMountOption
[22:43] <ArkoldThos> :|
[22:45] <peol> Is there any answer to why the option to set individual sound effects has been removed in Karmic, e.g. set mail notification sound etc.?
[22:46] <digitaloktay> hi people
[22:46] <digitaloktay> has  karmic new x-server??
[22:48] <RPG_Master> Am I the only one who can't interact with stuff using flash, but only in Firefox?
[22:48] <RPG_Master> Like, flash work fine in Epiphany
[22:48] <RPG_Master> *works
[22:50] <funkyHat> Anyone else using inkscape and finding it really slow in Karmic? :(
[22:50] <yofel> RPG_Master: others reported the same issue
[22:50] <RPG_Master> funkyHat: Let me check
[22:51] <yofel> digitaloktay: apt-cache policy xserver-xorg-core gives me 2:1.6.3-1ubuntu7
[22:51] <yofel> digitaloktay: so it's still Xorg 7.4
[22:51] <RPG_Master> funkyHat: work fine for me :(
[22:52] <funkyHat> RPG_Master: ok, it is probably just something I'm doing wrong then :(
[22:52] <funkyHat> blahh
[22:52] <RPG_Master> yofel: Do they know why?
[22:53] <yofel> RPG_Master: no idea, I just heard the other folks talking about it, flash works fine here
[22:53] <NoelJB> same here (re: Flash)
[22:53] <RPG_Master> yofel: :(
[22:53] <RPG_Master> NoelJB: But does it work in other browsers?
[22:53] <RPG_Master> Like epiphany
[22:53] <NoelJB> RPG_Master, there are other browsers than Firefox?  ;-)
[22:53] <yang_> Hey anybody here run their own dns server?
[22:53] <NoelJB> RPG_Master, sorry, haven't tried.
[22:53] <ArkoldThos> someone having problems while mounting NTFS partitions on Kubuntu Karmic Koala?
[22:54] <yang_> I can mount ntfs fine
[22:54] <digitaloktay> yofel, i think 10.04 the new xserver ;)
[22:54] <ArkoldThos> yang_, from Dolphin? it is returning org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.Volume.InvalidMountOption
[22:55] <yang_> I got those to sorry
[22:55] <yang_> utf 8. invalid
[22:55] <yang_> i mounted them by han
[22:55] <ArkoldThos> okay :)
[22:56] <yang_> after you mount them by hand you should be able to get them in doplhin fine
[22:56] <yang_> if the permant maybe add to /etc/fstab?
[22:57] <gregsp___> hi guys - if i want to upgrade from jaunty to karmic - what do i bang in the command line?
[22:57] <rsk> gregsp___: sudo update-manger -d
[22:57] <rsk> and voila
[22:57] <gregsp___> i got a command line only system installed.... no gnome or nothing
[22:57] <yang_> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
[22:58] <gregsp___> do i have to install the full desktop?
[22:58] <yofel_> ArkoldThos: see bug 395079
[22:58] <gregsp___> really want to keep this as small as possible...
[22:58] <yang_> that i dont know
[22:58] <Pici> gregsp___: sudo do-release-upgrade -d
[22:58] <Pici> gregsp___: Please check the beta release notes in the topic for more information
[22:59] <gregsp___> ya beauty!! pici thanks
[22:59] <acicula> when i activate openvpn it creates the right tap device, but my wireless wont respond anymore to arp requests for it's ip, so my connection dies after 10 seconds or so, anyone know a way around that?(i'm on wireless ap that plugs into a rouer
[22:59] <xcvsdfgh> My system just hard crashed. :(
[22:59] <xcvsdfgh> I hate how unstable Karmic is.
[23:00] <xcvsdfgh> It's seriously getting in the way of my work.
[23:00] <rsk> dont use karmic on a production system...
[23:00] <yang_> it is a beta. and runs pretty stable here
[23:00] <ArkoldThos> yofel, okay, thanks
[23:00] <xcvsdfgh> yang_: It just hard crashed...
[23:00] <yang_> I had that happend to me in the aplha stages with my wireless drivers
[23:00] <ArkoldThos> i used debian sid for a year or two and was always stable D:
[23:00] <NoelJB> xcvsdfgh, it is a beta (and only just beta).  hardy, intrepid or (if it works for you) jaunty, would be better choices for production.
[23:01] <xcvsdfgh> NoelJB: Jaunty doesn't like my Wi-Fi card.
[23:02] <NoelJB> xcvsdfgh, which card?
[23:02] <xcvsdfgh> NoelJB: Netgear MA311 or something like that.
[23:02] <NoelJB> xcvsdfgh, and does Intrepid?
[23:02] <xcvsdfgh> NoelJB: Intrepid doesn't have encrypted home directory support
[23:04] <NoelJB> xcvsdfgh, well, its always something.  intrepid does do encrypted home, jaunty doesn't like the wifi, and karmic isn't stable enough for you.  hopefully, you'll be OK in another few weeks.
[23:04] <NoelJB> s/does/doesn't/
[23:05] <xcvsdfgh> NoelJB: I don't remember any option to encrypt my home directory in the installation.
[23:05] <vinoman> trying to install BW43 driver for wifi on live CD. what is root password for live CD?
[23:05] <xcvsdfgh> NoelJB: Hopefully I'll be okay in a few weeks. :)
[23:05] <ActionParsnip> hey guys
[23:05] <xcvsdfgh> vinoman: Don't you get automatically logged in as root?
[23:05] <xcvsdfgh> ActionParsnip: Hi.
[23:05] <ActionParsnip> is erlang necessary?
[23:06] <ActionParsnip> xcvsdfgh: i hope not
[23:06] <NoelJB> xcvsdfgh, FWIW, I see several MA311 related bugs closed as invalid because people didn't want to work with the development team on them.
[23:06] <ActionParsnip> xcvsdfgh: (logging on as root etc)
[23:06] <xcvsdfgh> NoelJB: It's a 2.6.28 kernel problem.
[23:07] <xcvsdfgh> NoelJB: So I figured changing the kernel is easier than messing around with bug reports.
[23:07] <xcvsdfgh> ActionParsnip: What's erlang?
[23:07] <ArkoldThos> pfffffft :( unmet dependencies with amarok
[23:07] <NoelJB> xcvsdfgh, OK.  :-)  I know of other kernel problems in 2.6.31.  On one case, we put code in modem manager to work around one of them.
[23:08] <NoelJB> erlang is used with couchdb
[23:08] <NoelJB> www.erlang.org/
[23:08] <yofel> ArkoldThos: the build of amarok-common failed, you'll have to wait for it to get fixed
[23:08] <ActionParsnip> xcvsdfgh: seems to be something to do with couchdb (whatever that is)
[23:09] <ArkoldThos> yeh, lets hope until the devs uplodad the new amarok-common :)
[23:09] <xcvsdfgh> OMG pornview I sooooooooooooo cool
[23:09] <ActionParsnip> NoelJB: what is couchdb dude?
[23:09] <xcvsdfgh> s/I/is/
[23:09] <vinoman> I just pressed enter and it starts to install but does not. can't you install as live cd?
[23:09] <vinoman> wifi worked well in ver. 9.04. I hope this isn't a step for Ubuntu
[23:09] <vinoman> a step backward for Ubuntu
[23:09] <ArkoldThos> xcvsdfgh, what is pornview?
[23:09] <ActionParsnip> vinoman: just gotta reconfigure it for the new kernel
[23:09] <yofel> ArkoldThos: well, the build failed due to a broken mysql client that some package needed, so you could build amarok yourself (works, I tried it)
[23:10] <vinoman> trying Broadcom STA driver this time...
[23:10] <NoelJB> ActionParsnip, really?  the new database that is part of Ubuntu?
[23:10] <vinoman> how do you do that?
[23:10] <xcvsdfgh> ArkoldThos: PornView is an image and movie viewer/manager with thumbnail previews. Additional features includes thumbnail caching, directory tree views, adjustable zoom, and fullscreen view. Slideshows allow for unattended presentation of images for hands-free viewing. Pornview is written using GTK+.
[23:10] <ActionParsnip> NoelJB: database for what?
[23:10] <ArkoldThos> yofel, I prefer to wait sooner or later they will upload the newest since is a default package of kubuntu :D
[23:11] <yofel> kk
[23:11] <xcvsdfgh> ArkoldThos: I have to use both my hands on something else whilst using it.
[23:11] <xcvsdfgh> ArkoldThos: The first command I run on any computer I install Ubuntu on is 'sudo apt-get install pornview'
[23:12] <vinoman> STA did install. then it wants me to restart... won't that remove the driver? maybe I can't run wifi from live CD
[23:12] <ActionParsnip> !info pornview
[23:12] <joejc> what does speech-dispatcher do and do i need it to auto start?
[23:12] <ArkoldThos> i don't like gtk+ apps and i don't have many photos but thanks for explain what it is :D
[23:12] <NoelJB> ActionParsnip, apt-cache rdepends --recurse couchdb
[23:13] <xcvsdfgh> ArkoldThos: "hands-free" viewing. :)
[23:13] <ArkoldThos> hahaha
[23:13] <ArkoldThos> xd
[23:13] <xcvsdfgh> ArkoldThos: Because I have a massive penis and need to use both hands.
[23:13] <NoelJB> !ohmy
[23:14] <ActionParsnip> NoelJB: ok, I web browse and chat. Do I really need this thing?
[23:14] <Amaranth> bug 410407 is going to be fun
[23:14] <ActionParsnip> NoelJB: oh and play frets on fire
[23:14] <joejc> if you cant talk about an app why is it in the repos?
[23:14] <BUGabundo> thanks Pici
[23:14] <Pici> He was evading a ban.
[23:14] <BUGabundo> ha great :(
[23:14] <BUGabundo> douchbags
[23:14] <Amaranth> BUGabundo: ...
[23:15] <Pici> BUGabundo: Excuse me?
[23:15] <BUGabundo> Pici: for him to be evading bans
[23:15] <BUGabundo> some ppl really like to pull the fence
[23:15] <joejc> anyone know what speech-dispatcher does and if i need it to auto start?
[23:15] <NoelJB> ActionParsnip, at the least, it seems to be pulled in by evolution, which is standard.  but I believe it is used by more.
[23:16] <ActionParsnip> NoelJB: oh i see, i use that one
[23:16] <vinoman> also noticed that the touchpad doesn't work by tapping the pad. have to click the button. that also worked in 9.04
[23:16] <ActionParsnip> NoelJB: just trying to shrink my install :D
[23:16] <Amaranth> ActionParsnip: couchdb is used in evolution to sync with ubuntuone
[23:16] <joejc> !info speech-dispatcher
[23:17] <joejc> why does it auto start?
[23:17] <NoelJB> Amaranth, ah ... so *that's* the connection.  I was wondering why that hammer appeared in the dependency tree.
[23:17] <ActionParsnip> Amaranth: i dont use ubuntuone
[23:17] <joejc> anybody know?
[23:17] <Amaranth> ActionParsnip: so remove it :P
[23:18] <ActionParsnip> Amaranth: sweet, thanks
[23:18] <Amaranth> couchdb is also used for syncing firefox bookmarks with ubuntuone
[23:18] <Amaranth> There is a theme here :)
[23:18] <joejc> anybody have a guess?
[23:19] <Amaranth> joejc: you have accessibility enabled?
[23:19] <joejc> no
[23:19]  * Amaranth goes back to writing a new compiz decorator
[23:19] <NoelJB> Amaranth, mind you ubuntu-desktop depends on ubuntu one, and therefore on couchdb :-)
[23:20] <NoelJB> Amaranth, what kind of decorator?
[23:20] <Amaranth> NoelJB: But as we went over so throughly last night, you don't need ubuntu-desktop :)
[23:20] <Amaranth> NoelJB: just porting kde4-window-decorator to replace gtk-window-decorator for now
[23:20] <Amaranth> gtk-window-decorator is a mess
[23:21] <NoelJB> when will this new code appear?
[23:21] <Amaranth> Considering my track record so for with such things... 2020 or so
[23:22] <NoelJB> LOL
[23:22] <Amaranth> I want to do an SVG decorator too but getting the shadows and such right will be hard
[23:22] <Amaranth> shadows have to be straight lines
[23:26] <vinoman> I hope they fix the wifi by the final version...
[23:26] <joshposh> Does couchdb work for you with evolution? I just tried it and all Address Books with CouchDB seem to be taken from the same database.
[23:26] <NoelJB> vinoman: WIFI?
[23:27] <IDWMaster> US and Main archives are still slow. Is it at my end; or are the servers just full today?
[23:27] <joshposh> What is even more confusing: Nothing is written to the "Ubuntu One" directory.
[23:28] <ActionParsnip> wow I just found the most pointless package ever:
[23:28] <ActionParsnip> !info mobile-broadband-provider-info
[23:28] <Amaranth> ActionParsnip: not pointless
[23:28] <ActionParsnip> why?
[23:28] <Amaranth> ActionParsnip: Most people don't know their APN and such for GSM tethering
[23:29] <Amaranth> ActionParsnip: With that package you just have to choose a mobile provider and it fills it in for you
[23:29] <ActionParsnip> isnt it jsut a list of providers and ratings, how can I access this glorious list please?
[23:29] <ActionParsnip> oh i see
[23:29] <ActionParsnip> hmm, well thats going
[23:30] <NoelJB> Amaranth, do you know of any 30" display laptops?  (snarky reference to http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/AppBrowsingAlternative02)
[23:30] <ikt> what is with the boot splash
[23:30] <ikt> on small display it looks fine but anything above 20" and it looks horrible :/
[23:30] <ActionParsnip> wow and if you remove it it cripples network manager too
[23:31] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Interesting to see how they plan to integrate zeitgeist though. It didn't make sense to me before.
[23:32] <NoelJB> I wonder when this will drop into the Lucid alphas.
[23:32] <Amaranth> NoelJB: In universe, you mean?
[23:33] <perlsyntax_> where can i find the ubuntu 9.10 beta gnome dvd iso?
[23:33] <cmwslw> besides ext4, what new features will i not be able to have if i upgrade instead of reinstall?
[23:33] <Amaranth> There is no way we're using it in lucid
[23:33] <Amaranth> cmwslw: that's it
[23:33] <maco> perlsyntax_: cdimage.ubuntu.com like i just said in #ubuntu
[23:33] <NoelJB> Amaranth, oh right, Mark DID say that Lucid would be the best of Gnome *2*.
[23:33] <NoelJB> nevermind
[23:33] <Amaranth> NoelJB: Even worse, 2.0 :P
[23:33] <NoelJB> LOL
[23:33] <Amaranth> Which is probably why people thought he said 3.0
[23:33] <perlsyntax_> i know i just see it
[23:34] <perlsyntax_> Do they have perl 5.10.1 in it?
[23:34] <cmwslw> Aramanth: i thought stuff like pidgin would be kept instead of being upgraded to empathy
[23:35] <perlsyntax_> i like pidgin
[23:35] <NoelJB> Amaranth, gnome-shell is already in karmic universe
[23:35] <Amaranth> NoelJB: I know
[23:36] <Amaranth> !info perl
[23:36] <NoelJB> I might clone my karmic VM and install it just to see what it looks like.
[23:36] <Amaranth> perlsyntax_: Looks like 5.10.0
[23:36]  * BUGabundo likes pidgin more
[23:37] <perlsyntax_> it has python 2.6.2 or 2.6.3?
[23:37] <perlsyntax_> me to pidgin better
[23:37] <Amaranth> !info pidgin
[23:37] <Amaranth> 2.6.2 it is
[23:37] <perlsyntax_> i see
[23:37] <perlsyntax_> what for the gcc?
[23:37] <Amaranth> *facepalm*
[23:38] <Amaranth> perlsyntax_: http://packages.ubuntu.com
[23:39] <BUGabundo> Amaranth: python =! pidgin :)=
[23:40] <perlsyntax_> i think ubuntu got more package for python then sabayon linux
[23:40] <Amaranth> BUGabundo: No one has said python
[23:40] <Amaranth> oh, whoops
[23:40] <BUGabundo> LULZ
[23:40] <BUGabundo> (11:37:01 PM) perlsyntax_: it has python 2.6.2 or 2.6.3?
[23:41] <perlsyntax_> really
[23:41]  * Amaranth blames BUGabundo
[23:41] <mercutio22> About the lack of sound or text notification upon new message received in empathy, is there a workaround for the moment?
[23:41] <perlsyntax_> i want the pyton 2.6.3
[23:41] <perlsyntax_> python
[23:41] <perlsyntax_> i think it just a update
[23:41] <BUGabundo> I have 3.0
[23:41] <BUGabundo> :=)
[23:41] <perlsyntax_> cool
[23:41] <perlsyntax_> is python 3.0 slow?
[23:42] <perlsyntax_> that what i hear.
[23:42] <Amaranth> Technically every version of python is slow
[23:42] <BUGabundo> lolololol
[23:43] <perlsyntax_> i see
[23:43] <Pici> Python 3 is not fully backwards compatible with 2.x
[23:43] <Amaranth> s/fully/at all/
[23:44] <perlsyntax_> maybe i should try it out
[23:45] <BUGabundo> its not
[23:45] <perlsyntax_> i use netbeans for my python.
[23:47] <perlsyntax_> BUGabundo, you try out python 2.6.3?
[23:47] <BUGabundo> nope
[23:47] <BUGabundo> I just have it install
[23:47] <BUGabundo> just because I can :p
[23:47] <perlsyntax_> it that the stable one?
[23:47] <perlsyntax_> lol ok
[23:49] <perlsyntax_> man alot of people are download it.
[23:50] <perlsyntax_> what are the new tools on ubuntu 9.10
[23:52] <Pici> perlsyntax_: The beta link in the channel topic explains some of the new features
[23:53] <coz_> hey guys just installed karmic and noticed that constrain Y in compiz  disables itself...anyone else test this?
[23:56] <coz_> also notice that under Places, the Connect to server...Search for files..and Recent documents have no icons
[23:58] <TDJACR> Today's date and the next ubuntu version correspond.