  Happy Mon^WTuesday, and happy Macaroon Day! 😃
[08:50] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:51] <SuperMatt> Today is a good day for listening to Genesis
[08:52] <foobarry> try this instead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PkdLMIz-Ys
[08:52]  * brobostigon agrees with SuperMatt
[08:53]  * zmoylan-pi prepares to hunt macaroons today... http://chocolatewarehouse.ie/products/caffreys-products/caffreys-macaroon-bars-56-pack/
[09:07] <davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08eKINR5TKA got you covered thanks to the late great victoria wood
[10:52] <DJones> Has anybody tried freedompop for mobile sim cards? Just been looking at their plans, 200 minutes, 200 texts and 200Mb of data per month for £0.00, thinking about ordering one formy wifes spare phone
[10:53] <zmoylan-pi> can't go wrong at those prices :-)
[10:54] <DJones> Even £6.99 for unlimited talk, texts and 2,250Mb of data per month is a decent price
[10:59] <SuperMatt> I'm on giffgaff and with my new commute being mostly above ground, I'm paying for the unlimited bundle
[11:00] <popey> reminds me, need to get a second 3 card for wifey, for when we are out of the country
[11:00] <popey> the whole 3 unlimited internet in other countries is soooo nice
[11:00]  * brobostigon agrees.
[11:18] <sebThreeM10white> hi
[11:21] <MooDoo> hello
[11:21] <zmoylan-pi> o/
[11:23] <sebThreeM10white> MooDoo: zmoylan-pi hi
[11:23] <sebThreeM10white> popey: ping
[11:24] <popey> pong
[11:25] <davmor2> sebThreeM10white: classic comedy nick like it ;)
[11:25] <davmor2> sebThreeM10white: I wonder if I can guess what device you are on..........Samsung Galaxy Tab right?
[11:26] <davmor2> sebThreeM10white: on a serious note how are you finding it?
[11:26] <sebThreeM10white> popey: saw your pro 5 youtube videos last night ;d.  seems you got the k480 keyboard like me, but which bluteooth mouse and speakers?  I bought a cheap toner mouse hoping that would work with the m10, but nope
[11:26] <sebThreeM10white> davmor2:  how is it a classic comedy nick I don't understand?
[11:27] <popey> sebThreeM10white: the mouse is linked in the video
[11:27] <davmor2> sebThreeM10white: sebthree instead of sebsebseb :)
[11:27] <MooDoo> sebThreeM10white: ignore davmor2 he's old and cranky ;)
[11:27] <sebThreeM10white> davmor2: uhmm  IRC, checking, emails, and llistening to music,  I don't need a big clunky lap top for that,  especially with this bluetooth keyboard and well y o2g over usb mouse that I like even
[11:28] <sebThreeM10white> davmor2: the three is really in there, since it was too long with the three seb's
[11:28] <popey> one character longer
[11:29] <davmor2> then it would of been even funnier with M10whit :D
[11:29] <sebThreeM10white> plus I want to have the white in full as white, and  yes saying white, not hd :D as in the cheaper of the two :d he heh.  main difference you acstauly see is one is white and hte other is black I guess :d.  well I'll tell you when I see a FHD one if that's really true or not h eh
[11:29] <popey> not entirely convinced other irc users need to know the colour of your computing device :)
[11:29] <davmor2> popey: I assume sebThreeM10white goal was to keep the m10white bit in :)
[11:30] <sebThreeM10white> popey: maybe not, but  for now name why not ;d.  plus my password is set up on my computer for the real name, and I don't know what it is
[11:30] <davmor2> sebThreeM10white: I think sebsebsebM10 would be enough :)
[11:30] <popey> Translate
[11:30] <popey> white
[11:30] <popey> bah
[11:30] <MooDoo> type you're password in so you can see it, in IRC when you type in passwords we all see them as ******** ;) lol
[11:31] <popey> hunter2!
[11:31] <foobarry> bees.gif
[11:31] <sebThreeM10white> davmor2 maybe but there's a difference between the two devices and probably enough of one to justify this :d,  plus  I don't have the one that most of the fan boys etc have
[11:31] <MooDoo> popey: now that was quick
[11:31] <popey>  /join #ubuntu-fanboys
[11:31] <sebThreeM10white> popey: he h is there really a channel?
[11:31] <davmor2> sebThreeM10white: yeap but you are the only one that will care about it :)
[11:32] <sebThreeM10white> davmor2: to be honest I would rather have white tech in genral now, black is so boring and common and standard
[11:32]  * sebThreeM10white feels he has enough black tech as it is already :d
[11:32] <MooDoo> davmor2: got myself a new server that I'm going to play about with Maas I think see what happens
[11:33] <davmor2> MooDoo: woohoo! let me know I haven't played with that :)
[11:33] <sebThreeM10white> plus why not say that got one, nice devices,  they are still speccal really not so common etc
[11:34]  * popey hugs his white bq e4.5
[11:34]  * sebThreeM10white hopes BQ puts the BQ  EF HD back in stock,  but if not  ah well Meizu phones are better
[11:34] <sebThreeM10white> popey:  h e h, and oh it was white for that?  yes the insiders got a differnet colour?
[11:35] <popey> the white one I have was a pre-release android one
[11:35] <popey> black one is ubuntu edition
[11:35] <sebThreeM10white> popey: for the  MX 4 some got black or was that well linuuxvoice
[11:35] <popey> dunno
[11:36] <popey> mine is silver
[11:36] <sebThreeM10white> davmor2: I  haven't run the hack script yet to run more stuff in Xmir VLC and Inkscape and what not, something I want to do, but that hack script wont be needed at all soon it  seems for more programs :D
[11:36] <sebThreeM10white> popey: do you notice on the m10 that if you,  go off  say firefox and you got music on, you don't hear it anymore
[11:37] <popey> that's not surprising
[11:37] <popey> but not tried that
[11:37] <sebThreeM10white> popey: and also at times that the sound gets adjusted on things and becomes really loud,  that's on both  native browser and  firefox?
[11:37] <sebThreeM10white> popey: also yes Flash sucks, but anyway we could actsaully have it? I mean some sites still use it stil such as BBC News
[11:40] <davmor2> sebThreeM10white: there is no flash, and as for ff and music are you using the device in desktop mode or tablet mode?
[11:40] <sebThreeM10white> davmor2: I think in both modes the music thing will happen.  at the moment a bluetooth keyboard being used, but no mouse
[11:41] <sebThreeM10white> as I put  I think happens with libre.fm to same kind of thing and with the native brwoser
[11:41] <sebThreeM10white> music being libre.fm
[11:41] <sebThreeM10white> maybe a bug,  I mean should be able to minimise or whatever go off to another program/app  right whilst having that still on I was thinking
[11:42] <davmor2> sebThreeM10white: no in desktop mode the app isn't in the background so in theory should continue to play, if you drop down the cog indicator you can flip it to desktop mode
[11:43] <davmor2> hence asking which mode you were in :)
[11:44] <sebThreeM10white> davmor2: ok nice thanks :) that seemd to solve it,  putting it into desktop mode
[11:44] <sebThreeM10white> I then minimzed and yep it's ok
[11:44] <sebThreeM10white> in tablet mode why does it get effectd though? since other apps could have sound to/
[11:44] <sebThreeM10white> ?
[11:45] <davmor2> sebThreeM10white: because libertine isn't using media-hub which is the service that plays audio in the background so once the app in the background it kills the audio.
[11:46] <sebThreeM10white> popey: you should make more apps really for touch I think seriosly :), I love stallboard by the way :)
[11:47] <sebThreeM10white> Davmor2 oh ok that explains it?  oh and so you got a tablet or phone?  maybe a dev?
[11:47] <sebThreeM10white> no question for the first bit question mark none
[11:48] <sebThreeM10white> davmor2: think I seen you a few times in touch channel as well maybe not, hence my question
[11:48] <davmor2> sebThreeM10white: I'm in QA at canonical my job is breaking the devices :)
[11:49] <sebThreeM10white> davmor2: oh didn't reolise you worked for Canonical
[11:50] <popey> hah
[11:50] <popey> sebThreeM10white: maybe, what apps are you missing?
[11:51] <sebThreeM10white> popey: not just me in general, but I was thinking there should be more fun native apps in general at least :)
[11:51] <sebThreeM10white> by they somethin basic like stallboard or something more complex
[11:52]  * sebThreeM10white wonders what happended to that Fireworks app that someone made by the way
[11:52] <sebThreeM10white> davmor2: do Canonical give you FREE Ubuntu devices to test/break and use then :d ?
[11:53] <davmor2> sebThreeM10white: no canonical own devices they send me to break and test on :)
[11:54] <sebThreeM10white> davmor2: well borrowing them from Canonical is similar to being given in that context I guess.  is popey on the wrong team he h for that, so he has to buy them him self or usually? :d
[11:56] <popey> I have some from Canonical and I choose to buy my own too
[11:56] <davmor2> sebThreeM10white: no not really, he's just a magpie he sees shiny and has to have it ;)
[11:56] <popey> that too :)
[11:57] <davmor2> popey: :D
[11:58] <sebThreeM10white> popey: which ones did Canonical give you? why buy own as well :D ?
[11:59] <popey> lots of reasons
[11:59] <popey> I wanted a newer / faster device
[12:00] <popey> It's a waste of money for lots of people in canonical to get devices
[12:00] <sebThreeM10white> so uhmm I read somethine earluer about steam os  being dead or not really, may become big in a few years,  new platforms take time etc article yeah yeah.  and I was thinking hmm that could read as  Ubuntu touch even.   maybe in a few years it will be well a bit like desktop ubuntu now at least when it comes to the amount of users? what anyone think
[12:00] <sebThreeM10white> ?
[12:00] <popey> better for developers and qa people to have them
[12:00] <zmoylan-pi> but not a slimmer device... guess all those marketing departments are wrong... :-P
[12:01] <sebThreeM10white> popey: developers, qa, and early adopters yes
[12:01] <sebThreeM10white> true if not going to use it enough,  then it's probably a waste of money realy, if you mean like that
[12:02] <popey> yes
[12:05] <sebThreeM10white> he eh, in a few years maybe,  when it comes to market share and quite a lot of users,  1. Iphone/Android 2.  Iphone/Android  3.  Ubuntu   possible reality or a Canonical etc dream?
[12:07] <davmor2> sebThreeM10white: 1. Android 2. Iphone 3. everyone else
[12:08] <zmoylan-pi> well windows phone seems intent on shooting off both feet every time they do something new, firefox phone was killed before it took it's first steps by mozilla
[12:09] <sebThreeM10white> davmor2: here's one you may be able to help me with Canonical devices etc  QA :d
[12:10] <zmoylan-pi> samsung still has tizen but seems to be going nowhere with it.  there are now 3 nokias, ms nokia, nokia-nokia and hmd-nokia
[12:10] <sebThreeM10white> Dave: so I lost the files view etc normal top Firefox menu, don't know why, tried to bring back.  just now as I thought my bluetooth keyboare was going wrong or something, coudn't seem to type.  I pressed something not sure what,  d?  I guess some sort of keyboard combo by mistak to bring it up? but then it went  again
[12:10] <sebThreeM10white> davmor2:  ^^^6
[12:13] <sebThreeM10white> zymoyian-pi what's hmd nokia?  tizen yeah well can buY the r3 phone on Amazon from India, or the r1 and r3 on ebaby from India,  but yeah needs to target more than just india or marketshare wise it isn't going to go anywhere much.   I also think Firefox as a phone OS began  in the wrong direction only really targetting Africa
[12:15] <zmoylan-pi> sebThreeM10white: ms sold the dumbphone nokia off to a bunch of ex nokia employees who will sell under hmd brand so that's hmd nokia http://www.cio-today.com/article/index.php?story_id=102003A95OVU
[12:15] <sebThreeM10white> if Mozilla  had at least targetted Europe for example fro the begining to, it may have been a differerent story
[12:15] <zmoylan-pi> they eventually intend to flog an android variant
[12:15] <sebThreeM10white> oh the dumb phone thing yeah I read something about that the other day
[12:16] <zmoylan-pi> i still use a dumbphone nokia as none of the current crop of smartphones gives me what i want... battery life
[12:16] <sebThreeM10white> seems the dumb phone is just a basic os
[12:16] <sebThreeM10white> basic phone with a basic os
[12:17] <sebThreeM10white> and WIndos phones seem a bit eh really,  unless an expensive one that can do contium, but then need a sepreate device for cnonitum to uh
[12:17] <zmoylan-pi> it runs java apps which allows a lot.  my nokia asha 302 does wifi, web, email, irc, mp3s, fm radio, ebook, games, camera...
[12:18] <popey> zmoylan-pi: Samsung have said all new wearables will be Tizen, not Android Wear
[12:18] <zmoylan-pi> probably as they have more control they can make it use less power
[12:18] <popey> Tizen seems bigger in non-phone devices like cars and watches
[12:18] <sebThreeM10white> but the watches are meant to go with a phone really or appranatly
[12:18] <sebThreeM10white> plus no UBuntu watch any time soon it seems
[12:18] <popey> we dont need a watch
[12:18] <sebThreeM10white> that's what mark said in his  q and a video
[12:19] <sebThreeM10white> don't need a watch why?
[12:19] <popey> we have enough to do
[12:19] <sebThreeM10white> such as? h eh h, jokingly. yes let's see  xmir :d libertine :D  keeping desktop ubuntu inteersing enough to, unity, etc etc
[12:20] <sebThreeM10white> yeah  in a waythat's good these smart watches  haven't taken off I think
[12:21] <sebThreeM10white> yet another device someone could spy on you with h e h
[12:21] <popey> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-2-time-2-and-core-an-entirely-new-3g-ultra is impressive
[12:21] <popey> ~10x their target
[12:22] <sebThreeM10white> oh quite cheap by the looks of it to
[12:22] <sebThreeM10white> have you backe that?
[12:22] <sebThreeM10white> or cheap untill customs and  shipping maybe
[12:22] <popey> yes
[12:23] <sebThreeM10white> seems getting the nex dock sent here is going to cost about the same as what I actually bought it for
[12:23] <sebThreeM10white> apparnantly it's like 71 dollars as an example to send from Singapore to USA,  so probably about the same for UK,  plus customs I guess
[12:23] <popey> ouch
[12:24] <sebThreeM10white> but it is a 14 inch lap top like thing
[12:24] <sebThreeM10white> with the battery etc
[12:24] <zmoylan-1i> donate an ubuntuphone or two to pebble watch people and hope they write a client for ubuntu phone...
[12:24] <sebThreeM10white> the battery aprpanly means can only be shipped with certain ones to,  but it came up as like fed ex and dhl anyway I think, so that's fine and standard
[12:24] <popey> zmoylan-pi: there already is one
[12:24] <zmoylan-1i> neat
[12:24] <sebThreeM10white> a client for UBuntu and peble watch?
[12:25] <popey> yes
[12:25] <popey> RockWork
[12:25] <zmoylan-1i> then there is a smart watch for ubuntu phone
[12:25] <popey> :)
[12:26] <sebThreeM10white> popey: right I am putting  something I might still fund even lower down on my list it seems, since not the best time to spend like 225 pounds on  something like that, it's in the indiego go demand stage I can probably still buy at the end of next month for example
[12:26] <sebThreeM10white> still a bit on the fence about that one though
[12:26] <sebThreeM10white> since the ssd card  seems like it's not so big really, once doing things
[12:27] <sebThreeM10white> popey: I saw something on indiegogo the other week simlar to the chip  to I think, but I am getting that soon
[12:27] <popey> oh, reminds me, arduboy ships soon
[12:27] <sebThreeM10white> yes mine is aparnatly coming
[12:28] <sebThreeM10white> I didn't check update my address, but I hadn't changed since putting in on kickstarter anyway, so should be fine
[12:28] <sebThreeM10white> nexdock and chip want me to confirm my address before shipping anything
[12:28] <sebThreeM10white> and gpd xd 128gb limited edition
[12:29] <sebThreeM10white> the gpd win is the one I am hmm to,  seems a bit to pricey for what would actsaully get really.  plus there isn't much space to dual boot with Linux anyway sdd space
[12:29] <sebThreeM10white> and there's the for even more money, the open pandora update the whatever it was called
[12:30] <sebThreeM10white> popey:  would you import something from India? or would you think hmm?  I mean like the tIzen R3 phone for example
[12:32] <sebThreeM10white> very very very very low on the things I may want to buy that are tech mind list,  but  yes might be something having one of those
[12:32] <sebThreeM10white> I mean as someone who likes playing around with differnet oses :)
[12:33] <popey> sebThreeM10white: sure, why not
[12:35] <popey> here you go, on the subject of tizen and apps.. top 20 apps in the tizen store in April 2016  http://imgur.com/OHlThlQ
[12:35] <popey> #1 unsurprisingly whatsapp
[12:36] <zmoylan-pi> 20billion well spent by facebook
[12:36] <popey> this is the #2 app http://www.downloadtizenapps.com/2016/04/bus-race-3d-for-tizen-phone-realistic-bus-racing-simulation.html
[12:36] <zmoylan-pi> i do worry for opera browser now that a chinese company has bought it
[12:37] <SuperMatt> just switch to vivaldi
[12:37] <zmoylan-pi> vivaldi won't run on my nokia phone :-)
[12:38] <popey> that shareit app icon looks familiar :)
[12:42] <sebThreeM10white> zmoylan-pi: oh I haven't seen that, what's happended to  Opera who bought it? got a link?
[12:42] <sebThreeM10white> popey: which Pebel perk did you do and not do and why?
[12:43] <zmoylan-pi> https://www.techinasia.com/chinese-tech-companies-bought-opera
[12:48] <popey> sebThreeM10white: the new pebble 2 because it has a better screen, smaller bezel etc
[12:48] <popey> and i really like my pebble
[12:49] <zmoylan-pi> i keep looking at pebbles in shops but it would be a little sad to have a watch with a better processor than my phone :-) i'd have to sync with an old tablet so only under wifi coverage notifications
[12:49]  * brobostigon hugs his pebble.
[12:51] <brobostigon> although my partner forces me to wear my g watch when we go out, as she thinks it looks smarter.
[12:51] <zmoylan-pi> you could wear the pebble on your ankle and check it when she's not looking... :-P
[12:52] <brobostigon> hehe :D
[12:53] <sebThreeM10white> popey: oh you already got a pebele. and what's the point of them really,  seems it's for seeing progress in the gym or from running and that's about it really these smart watches, going by that kick starter page
[12:54] <popey> I have a pebble time, yes
[12:54] <sebThreeM10white> what do you ise ti for?
[12:54] <sebThreeM10white> use
[12:54] <sebThreeM10white> what do you use it for?
[12:55]  * brobostigon uses it as a watch, it tells the time dont you know.
[12:55] <sebThreeM10white> brobostigon: well sure an expensive  watch, to tell time, but what else, and I was asking popey
[12:56] <brobostigon> sebThreeM10white: notifications are handy, so i dont mis calls etc, when i am away from my phone doing jobs etc. and also a nice programming challange, building apps watchfaces etc.
[12:56] <sebThreeM10white> hmm
[12:57] <sebThreeM10white> why should I maybe have a smart watch seriously?
[12:57] <popey> that's only something you can answer :)
[12:57] <brobostigon> :)
[12:57]  * sebThreeM10white saw someone with the Tizen Samsung S2 or whatever  and  yeah
[12:57] <sebThreeM10white> saw whatever at FOSDEM to
[12:57] <sebThreeM10white> tizezen ones
[12:58] <sebThreeM10white> but wha's wrong with well a standard old styled digital watch :d ?
[12:58] <brobostigon> i got my pebble, because my previous mechanical watch died, and it seemed a good replacement with additional benefits.
[12:58] <zmoylan-pi> 1) if you want to cut down on the amount of times you check your phone in polite company as notifications are on your wrist 2) health monitor facilities 3) pure unadulterated geekiness
[12:58]  * sebThreeM10white doesn't really use watches anymore since smart phones
[12:59]  * sebThreeM10white
[12:59]  * sebThreeM10white was never particuarly good at running hmm
[13:00]  * sebThreeM10white should maybe go to the gym again,  but got quite skinny because of certain reasons
[13:00] <popey> i rarely wore a watch before I got a pebble
[13:00] <sebThreeM10white> in other words I am not so sure the health app would be used much if at all really
[13:01] <brobostigon> its no substitude in my mind, taking your phone out all the time just to check the time has several disadvantages, takes longer to check the time, is not perticularly polite and causes uneccesery extra drain on your phone battery when not needed.
[13:01] <brobostigon> ie, more screen on time.
[13:01] <sebThreeM10white> well peble hmm  something to think about I guess
[13:01] <zmoylan-pi> also increases risk of dropping it as we often put them in pockets not optimally placed when sitting
[13:02] <sebThreeM10white> and popey said there is an app already for UBuntgu touch? for it?
[13:02] <brobostigon> yep.
[13:02] <brobostigon> to both.
[13:03] <sebThreeM10white> annoying thing with kickstarer and indiego is to you pay the money pretty much there and then
[13:03] <sebThreeM10white> when you fund it
[13:03] <zmoylan-pi> better that way so you will only risk money that you won't miss
[13:04] <sebThreeM10white> zmoylan-pi:  yeah but still need to have the money at the time in the first place
[13:04] <sebThreeM10white> zmoylan-pi: unless I guess maybe putting the bill on a credit card instead of a debit card?
[13:07] <sebThreeM10white> zmoylan-pi: money that won't miss... but you may do a bit, once someone goes off with it instead, and you get nothing, that already happended to me with one
[13:07] <sebThreeM10white> so I am more careful now when it comes to crowd funding
[13:23] <Myrtti> I can't live without my watch, and upgrade from a Casio LA670WEA to a Moto360v2 was welcome upgrade for me
[13:24] <diddledan> oh, awesome! dnsmasq is removed from yakkety!
[13:24] <diddledan> \o/
[13:24] <diddledan> etc/resolve.conf will have the correct nameservers again
[13:25] <diddledan> ref: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2016-May/039350.html
[13:34] <zmoylan-pi> an end of an era... no more cz tab
[13:34] <diddledan> :-o
[13:34] <diddledan> nooooooo
[13:35]  * diddledan rocks gently in the corner as the world changes around him
[13:35] <sebThreeM10white> popey: brobostigon looks like could even get all three on there for a reasonable price, but why are they crowd funding if they are already established company?
[13:35] <popey> ask them
[13:35]  * zmoylan-pi breaks out the chocolate hobnobs and coaxs diddledan out of the corner...
[13:36] <diddledan> nobnobs!
[13:36] <sebThreeM10white> popey: brobostigon if the 337 was pounds that would  be a bit uh, but 230 pounds seems reasonable for all three
[13:37] <diddledan> my precious
[13:37] <brobostigon> lol.
[13:37] <LauraFautley> Aloha :)
[13:37] <diddledan> allo LauraFautley
[13:37]  * brobostigon watches diddledan turn.
[13:37] <sebThreeM10white> LauraFautley: hi
[13:38] <sebThreeM10white> popey: I just tried to search for a pebble app in the ubuntu store, didn't  get that far, you sure there is  one? :d
[13:38] <sebThreeM10white> on the tablet I searched
[13:43] <sebThreeM10white> popey: brobostigon that peble offer seems like quite a good one, when comparing the price to what the Samsung Gear S2 with Tizen would sell for
[13:44] <sebThreeM10white> so get three for the price of one of those basically
[13:44] <sebThreeM10white> three pebles for the price of one s2 basically
[13:44] <brobostigon> sebThreeM10white: you dont need to highlight me for every question, i will answer if i can.
[13:48] <sebThreeM10white> altough there would be some vat and customs as well I guess
[13:49] <brobostigon> import tax, and vat, yes.
[13:49] <sebThreeM10white> which would be rougly how much
[13:49] <sebThreeM10white> 30 pounds?
[13:50] <brobostigon> vat is 20%, as a watch is jewellery.
[13:50] <sebThreeM10white> hmm so quite high?
[13:51] <brobostigon> having to pay 205 extra depending on amound can make a big differenc.
[13:51] <brobostigon> 20%
[13:51] <popey> sebThreeM10white: it's called rockwork, and it's in the open store, not the default one
[13:52] <sebThreeM10white> well 337 is the peble all three perk for  example.  and one watch would come first, then the next later, and then the last later
[13:52] <sebThreeM10white> 337 dollars that is
[13:52] <sebThreeM10white> popey: oh ok that explaisn why I coudn't find, why not in the default store
[13:53] <sebThreeM10white> but don't have to worry about vat and customs untill something actsaully comes I guess anyway :d
[13:54] <sebThreeM10white> how is the peble better than the  tizen s2?  or isn't it really or both about the same?
[13:55] <brobostigon> thats for you to decide, dpending on many different factors, which fits and works better for you.
[13:56] <brobostigon> research, :)
[13:58] <sebThreeM10white> hmm right
[16:20] <sebthreeM10HD> hi
[16:20] <tt>
[16:21] <sebthreeM10HD> better nick?
[16:21] <sebthreeM10HD> oh the..
[16:23] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ok
[18:19] <Switches> Evening
[18:20] <daftykins> o/
[18:20] <daftykins> happy end of May!
[18:20] <Switches> lol yeah
[18:22] <zmoylan-pi> roll on june, kids off school, traffic eases up
[18:23] <Switches> lol guess that's one way to see it
[18:24] <Switches> I came to a big revelation today..
[18:25] <daftykins> ooh?
[18:25] <zmoylan-pi> when the sun shines it's very warm? :-)
[18:25] <Switches> I hate ubuntu for being such a great distro.. Every time I find something I think I can switch to I begin to miss ppas/snaps/forums/easy driver installs and everything just working without fuss xD
[18:25] <daftykins> haha
[18:27] <Switches> Was trying Devuan, Calculate Linux, FreeBSD they all are great but each on just misses the mark with something or other..
[18:28] <SebthreeBQM10HD> zmoylan-pi, yes half term
[18:28] <Switches> Was hoping to move away from systemd, but tbh I would rather trust Ubuntu and Canonical to keep it in line within Ubuntu than any of the ones without it >.>
[18:29] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, SystemD is fine :d
[18:29] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, so what what it uses for boot up and such if it works :)
[18:29] <Switches> systemd is a "virus" even the creator calls it an "operating system as a virus" :p
[18:30] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, got a link for that?
[18:30] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, and I seen him do a talk and he didn't call it that :)
[18:30] <SebthreeBQM10HD> that was like two years or so ago now
[18:30] <SebthreeBQM10HD> or about
[18:30] <Switches> yeah gimme a sec its on poeterings blog
[18:30] <SebthreeBQM10HD> it's a bit like Unity
[18:30] <SebthreeBQM10HD> and
[18:30] <SebthreeBQM10HD> other distros in that context let me explain :d
[18:30] <SebthreeBQM10HD> for other distros it's like Uh Unity!
[18:31] <SebthreeBQM10HD> all other distros :d
[18:31] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ok maybe not the best comparion thing but if you get me, it makes sense :d
[18:31] <Switches> http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html on there somewhere
[18:31] <SebthreeBQM10HD> even the Ubuntu based distros don't just want to use Unity as well! most or all of them
[18:32] <Switches> Well I find unity fine tbh but then thats me
[18:32] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, SystemD is no big deal :)  I used one of the very first distros to go SystemD just well fine with SystemD and that distro was Mageia :)
[18:32] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, I quite like Unity 8
[18:33] <Switches> Hey I got a strong dislike for a big "money making" firm being behind anything :p
[18:33] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, I woudn't have more than one Ubuntu device if I didn't like Unity  8 I guess :d
[18:33] <SebthreeBQM10HD> or woudn't just have
[18:33] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, right but I Have already thought about that, there used to be Xandros and Lindows/Linspire trying to make  money like Canonical has but only from the desktop for those two
[18:33] <SebthreeBQM10HD> there used to be Mandrake/Mandriva trying to make money like that to
[18:34] <SebthreeBQM10HD> those all died out
[18:34] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I guess there just has to be one, that's commerical and really popular, and that's now Ubuntu and has been for quite a lot of years already
[18:34] <SebthreeBQM10HD> oh and Canonical is finally doing some proper inovating as well really!  yes Unity 8 Mir, Ubuntu tablets phones, that kind of stuff
[18:34] <zmoylan-pi> a few days too late for international towel day... an electronic monk \o/ http://boingboing.net/2016/05/31/meet-the-robot-buddhist-monk.html
[18:35] <daftykins> niiiice
[18:35] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, I remember when Ubuntu was uh, since they patched GNOME 2, and changed the theme to something that I thought was horrible in 10.04,  and to be honest at that time, it seemd that's about all Canonical really did
[18:36] <SebthreeBQM10HD> oh yeah and the year before they had made Ubuntu Sofware Centre, and I think Ubuntu One as well
[18:37] <Switches> I been with ubuntu since the start, I've seen the projects they have done, Upstart, Launchpad, Bazaar among them, Upstart was great and was even in Fedora until RedHat decided it wanted its own systemd to be the "flag bearer" and thats what worries me
[18:37] <SebthreeBQM10HD> and around that time a nice netbook remix interface, but  it seemed that Canonical didn't really do much back then,  trying to invoate change the Linux desktop etc and properly, from the other ones,  but now years later can see the direction of where things  have been heading, and are wel heading now.  yes shows nicely that with Ubuntu Phones nad tablet,s unity 8 etc
[18:37]  * daftykins emits some expletives regarding netbooks
[18:37] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, the start so 14.10 ?
[18:38] <SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, what was that?
[18:38] <Switches> rofl
[18:38] <Switches> try Warty Warthog was my first ubuntu :D
[18:38] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, I Typed wrong number by mistake
[18:38] <daftykins> back in the brown days, or was that pre brown?
[18:38] <Switches> it's 4.07 was the very first
[18:38] <Switches> (i think)
[18:38] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, I meant  04.10 ????  whatever the number is for warty
[18:38] <SebthreeBQM10HD> !warty
[18:38] <Switches> Ohh it was brown...
[18:39] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ok 4.10 yeah that's it
[18:39] <Switches> Well I was actually testing it when it went up on the blueyonder servers back then :p
[18:39] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, I started with 5.04  BUT Ubuntu wasn't my first distro FEdora Core 2 and 4 were, but offline useage I coudn't get wireless to work
[18:39] <daftykins> blueyonder, now there's a name that rings a bell o0
[18:39] <Switches> :p
[18:40] <SebthreeBQM10HD> then Ubuntu seemed fine for years
[18:40] <daftykins> i find it amazing to think of the hours i spent in front of a computer that was offline, now
[18:40] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ,but then
[18:40] <Switches> Debian and Slackware were my first "Linux"s
[18:40] <SebthreeBQM10HD> they started doing some things in 2009 that I Didn't like so much to GNOME no big deal, but when 10.04 came out I was like uh!  I was quite a bit younger then to so :d
[18:40] <SebthreeBQM10HD> 10.04 I didn't like even after changing some stuff etc back
[18:41] <SebthreeBQM10HD> didn't just leave UBuntu though, but started going in a diffenret direction around then
[18:41] <SebthreeBQM10HD> when Unity  7 got made well was ok ish sure for what it was, but I Preferd GNOME 3 GNOME Shell :)
[18:41] <Switches> Tbh Gnome made changes (3.0)and did that aswell and still are :p
[18:41] <SebthreeBQM10HD> even my old test version developers test versison that I had from repos in Mandriva 2010 series
[18:41] <SebthreeBQM10HD> that went on top of GNOME 2
[18:42] <SebthreeBQM10HD> still got that on my old net book :d
[18:42] <SebthreeBQM10HD> old ish
[18:42] <Switches> Well even Unity uses gnome libraries
[18:42] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, Unitty 7 yeah
[18:42] <SebthreeBQM10HD> 8 is diffenret though
[18:42] <SebthreeBQM10HD> different
[18:43] <Switches> Yeah I know, I been testing it out a bit
[18:43] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, on the desktop?
[18:43] <user2635> Hi all :)
[18:43] <Switches> Yep
[18:43] <SebthreeBQM10HD> user2635, yeah
[18:43] <SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
[18:43] <SebthreeBQM10HD> just hi for you yeah was for Switches
[18:43] <user2635> i'm havin' a go at switching to linux
[18:43] <user2635> i'm using ubuntu now
[18:43] <Switches> It was a little broken last time I checked :p but you can def see the direction they are going
[18:43] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, I installed from the repos into upgraded 15.10 to 16.04  and it worked sure, but then I did stuff with the ppa after that etc and things went wrong :d
[18:44] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, it works rather nicely on the Ubuntu Phones and tablets :)
[18:44] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, 16.10 should be interesting for that, since Unity 8 with libertine I guess as well by default :d
[18:45] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I mean as a default opioton form the screen
[18:45] <Switches> Well Unity 8 isn't the default desktop but libertine does seem bloody interesting I will admit
[18:45] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, also Ubuntu Touch won't have a version based on 16.10 it seems, but one on 16.04 probably, so I guess the focus will be mostly the desktop for 16.10 then
[18:46] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, using libertine right now on my tablet :d
[18:46] <SebthreeBQM10HD> or uh purtine even which is the like tablet demo of some apps  pre installed for the tablet with liberitne
[18:47] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, Unity  8 runs well Ubuntu phone/table store apps,  or  other things via libertine that's the idea
[18:48] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, libertine for xmir
[18:50] <Switches> Damn kids!
[18:50] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, oh?
[18:50] <Switches> Yeah I know mate, it sounds like its going to be fun X11 apps in a kind of container for unity 8
[18:51] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, yep fun :d
[18:51] <Switches> Daughter asking me to go downstairs and then says she doesn't want anything
[18:51] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, find out what works or not etc
[18:51] <SebthreeBQM10HD> or how well it works or not etc
[18:51] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, I could run more stuff on this tablet if I Had done the hack not treid yet, but something is coming in a over the air update soon I think so hack won't be needed then
[18:51] <SebthreeBQM10HD> swithces how old is she?
[18:52] <Switches> Well looking at it from the outside, I think Canonical got a little bit of experience with "container" like apps, being they are the biggest in the cloud so far :p
[18:52] <Switches> 17
[18:52] <SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah they got on some cloud things true
[18:54] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, Ubuntu is not liked by many
[18:54] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, also a lot of this "inovation" is really happening since they are commerical and trying to set things up, so they can make some actsaul future money
[18:54] <SebthreeBQM10HD> profit
[18:55] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, I can't see how most distros would even try and target the phone and tablet, too much work etc
[18:55] <SebthreeBQM10HD> for little gain
[18:55] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but not in Canoica's case if it works out enough, profit profit profit
[18:56] <Switches> Well that's not really how I see it, being that not one of the competitors as it were have a "desktop" focused version like ubuntu does :p
[18:56] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, what do you mean by that exactly?
[18:57] <SebthreeBQM10HD> most other distros use upsteram project so GNOME KDE etc, and do branding changes and what not, but they are dfiently desktop focused most other distros :).  Fedora, Open Suse, Mageia, PC Linux OS, etc etc, thousands of them
[18:57] <Switches> RedHat doesn't have a "desktop" version anymore, openSUSE hasn't got a desktop version the rest are pretty niche
[18:57] <Switches> They are not focused on the general "desktop" user and never have been, if they were they would be a little more like how the kernel works and stop breaking stuff :p
[18:58] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, Redhat has a desktop version what are you on about it's called Fedora. there's also Red hat enterpise LInux for work station desktops,  you know what there's  cent os as well for desktops.  SUSE has a desktop version it's called OpenSuse
[18:58] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, I disagree enterigly
[18:58] <Switches> Fedora has a Workstation and a Server, not a desktop version
[18:58] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, Mageia, Fedora, Open SUse, most distros are difneitn yfocussed at desktop users
[18:59] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, so if a distro is llow down on distrowatch you think it's niche he h?
[18:59] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I mean in the top 10
[18:59] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but low down
[19:00] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, also Fedora's workstation version is the desktop PC and lap tops versibion
[19:00] <Switches> They are not aimed at desktop users, they are aimed at Devs.. that's why they never made an inroads on desktops, the same reason they fell behind on Canonical in the Cloud
[19:00] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, that is not true at all of say Mageia :)
[19:01] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, that's one of hte distros that keeps the old Mandriva/Mandrake living on and that's definetly focussed at normal users anyone who wants to run it and for destkops :)
[19:01] <Switches> Fedora's Workstation is not for a desktop if it was you wouldn't need Copr or the Fedora Tweak tool
[19:01] <SebthreeBQM10HD> before Ubuntu
[19:01] <SebthreeBQM10HD> there was a time when Mandrake the old name for Mandriva was the like most popular desktop distro as well
[19:02] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, Fedora is for desktop pcs but it's generally aimed at sioghtly more expereinced users
[19:02] <Switches> Mandrake had one good thing Dracut and even that wasn't all theirs it was partly suse
[19:02] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, the control centre in Mageia,  PC Linux OS, and anything linked to the old Mandriva/Mandrake is difnetlty for the desktop :)
[19:02] <Switches> How can you say its for desktops... It's rules are to strict for any desktop user
[19:03] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, Mageia is dfienetly for the desktops :)
[19:03] <Switches> No its not
[19:03] <SebthreeBQM10HD> not on the council for that anymore, but  I am going to be in the meeting for that now :)
[19:03] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, yes it is and I know as someone who got invovled with that distro :)
[19:03] <Switches> any distro that uses RPM and has to change it to URPM is not a "Desktop" focused distro
[19:03] <SebthreeBQM10HD> it's still RPM,  just the commands aren't yast
[19:04] <SebthreeBQM10HD> it's urpmi from the old Mandriva days
[19:04] <SebthreeBQM10HD> so Mageia itself has never changed any of that
[19:04] <Switches> Mageia is a community driven project..
[19:05] <Switches> I don't see that as a "Desktop" focused distro, its a community distro which Ive seen hundreds come and go over the years
[19:05] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, a community driven project mostly aimed at people who want to run it on normal PC's and lap tops yes
[19:06] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, a community driven project mostly aimed at people who want to run it on normal PC's and lap tops yes
[19:07] <Switches> Well each to their own I guess
[19:07] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, most desktop LInux distros use GNOME, KDE,  and things like that, Mate these days even Cinnamon as optoins etc,  upstream projects
[19:08] <Switches> Cinnamon is not an upstream project... its a fork
[19:08] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, but since Ubuntu has a commercial company behind it and a community, they can become upstrema for there own thing Unity
[19:08] <SebthreeBQM10HD> and be differnet form all the other distros
[19:08] <user2635> Anyone use KeePass? I don't know if I can ask here..
[19:08] <SebthreeBQM10HD> who won't just use Unity
[19:08] <daftykins> "if you can ask" ? what
[19:08] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, forks  then become upstream projectd to
[19:08] <user2635> its more of a 'transitioning from windows' question
[19:09] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, can take an already existing program and make a new one, and then be a upstream of the new project
[19:09] <Switches> No they don't a fork is a fork.. no matter how you split it
[19:09] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, upstream usually means that some other project wants to use your project though
[19:09] <user2635> in Keepass you can use the global hotkeys and I normally use lock workspace
[19:09] <user2635> but in Ubuntu, I can't do that
[19:09] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, a fork is something living on or living on in a diffent way
[19:09] <Switches> ...
[19:10] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, most distros have forked off some other distro that already existed as well, or got based on it
[19:10] <Switches> Cinnamon is a fork of Gnome3 it makes no changes apart from shell..
[19:10] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, Linux Mint is a fork of Ubuntu really
[19:10] <SebthreeBQM10HD> PC LInux OS was a fork of Mandrake back in 2003 but now is  quite diffenret from   when it forked
[19:11] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Mate is a fork of GNOME 2, but is now it's own project Mate, and so anything that uses Mate will use the upstream Mate
[19:11] <SebthreeBQM10HD> upstream being where a program comes from in this context
[19:11] <SebthreeBQM10HD> be that an orignally made program, or a fork of some program that already existed
[19:11]  * daftykins yawns
[19:11] <Switches> Ok you see it that way..
[19:14] <SebthreeBQM10HD> if you base a distro on a fork ,  you could say your upstream is the forked distro
[19:14] <SebthreeBQM10HD> if it takes loads of things from it
[19:14] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Ubuntu is also a fork of Debian in that context then
[19:15] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Switches, UBuntu is a fork!
[19:15] <Switches> If you think that I suggest you go and look what a "fork" and "derivative" is
[19:16] <daftykins> :)
[19:20] <user2635> For the KeePass users, I'm coming from Windows and I used to use the easy CTRL-ALT-K to unlock workspace. How do I turn this on for linux?
[19:24] <Switches> Hmm closest Ubuntu has to that is probably its screenlock, although I don't use it, so can't really help much more than that.
[19:25] <Switches> I know it had some shortcut for it, should be in system settings/keyboard I would guess
[19:26] <user2635> screenlock? is that a password manager?
[19:26] <user2635> i'm confused
[19:27] <user2635> alternatively, what password managers do you guys use on linux
[19:28] <Switches> Well we have seahorse which is a password mananger, if you go to dash and type passwords it will find it
[19:30] <Switches> Icon is a set of keys. Not sure if that's what you're looking for though.. I never really use "password" managers other than for "gpg" stuff tbh (Thunderbird Enigmail as an example)
[19:31] <Switches> Also if it helps there may be a download on http://keepass.info/
[19:31] <hazrpg> Hey all \o
[19:32] <Switches> heya
[19:33] <hazrpg> Just wondering, but is anyone else having trouble with nvidia drivers on Ubuntu 16.04? I get a blank screen after the splash whenever I run `prime-select nvidia`
[19:33] <hazrpg> Running on intel works fine, but once I switch to nvidia it breaks.
[19:34] <daftykins> check you've got no mixed version components?
[19:34] <daftykins> dpkg -l | grep nvidia*
[19:34] <daftykins> er no *
[19:35] <hazrpg> daftykins: I don't think I have: paste.ubuntu.com/16874188
[19:37] <hazrpg> oh wait, nvidia-settings has `ubuntu1` and the rest have `ubuntu2` at the end...
[19:40] <hazrpg> Just thought I'd mention, I tripple boot - so I have ubuntu twice (one for testing the latest version)... the second one (that I use for testing) I managed to solve the issue there, but I can't replicate the same solution on my main install - the only difference is that I upgrade the main one from 14.04 to 16.04, and the other one was from 15.10 to 16.04.
[19:40] <hazrpg> upgraded*
[19:41] <hazrpg> I mounted the second install and tried diffing `/etc/X11/xorg.conf` between the two and they are idential
[19:41] <hazrpg> I was wondering if anyone knew any other files I could possibly try diffing
[19:42] <user2635> Switches, seahorse??
[19:42] <user2635> !info seahorse
[19:43] <user2635> oh right.. this is more for emails and signing off.. not a password manager
[19:43] <Switches> Yeah, I did find a http://keepass.info/ site that may help, was just looking it has a download for Ubuntu and Deb
[19:43] <Switches> found*
[19:44] <user2635> actually i already use KeePass
[19:44] <user2635> it was just a specific question for those who used it
[19:45] <Switches> Ahh sorry
[19:45] <user2635> but i've solved it for now :)
[19:45] <Switches> Great!
[19:46] <user2635> there's a lot for me to learn still to get used to linux
[19:46] <user2635> i've learned that I have to think of everything in packages now..
[19:46] <user2635> even drivers and stuff like that
[19:46] <Switches> You'll never stop learning :), it's one of the great things about Linux in general :)
[19:46] <user2635> i'm not even technical
[19:46] <user2635> so its a bit harder for me
[19:46] <user2635> I know how to use basic commands like cd ls sudo apt-get but I don't know how useful it will be for me
[19:47] <Switches> Just take you're time, if you get stuck ask in #ubuntu (patience needed) or post on the forums.
[19:47] <user2635> I only use it in tutorials, not like I have actually used it by myself (with no browser window open)
[19:47] <hazrpg> user2635: We were all in your possition once, trust me it gets easier... and the more you learn, the less likely you are to go back!
[19:47] <user2635> Switches, agreed, doesn't always work as I'm impatient! :)
[19:47] <Switches> lol
[19:47] <user2635> hazrpg, I still dual boot in case. besides windows is still the platform for gaming
[19:48] <user2635> but I'm trying to be more secure through linux as a primary os
[19:48] <Switches> well sometimes the forums are faster tbh, but just remember "There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers" it really is true in Linux
[19:49] <user2635> is there anything you guys wished you learned earlier?
[19:49] <user2635> pertaining to day-to-day pc usage through linux
[19:49] <Switches> Hmm for me would probably have been vi/vim, never got the hang of them to their full extent
[19:50] <user2635> ohhh
[19:50] <user2635> i only know nano..
[19:50] <Switches> Same pretty much nano/pico are my main ones xD
[19:51] <hazrpg> user2635: I use to think that too, don't get me wrong I triple boot (Windows being one of them), but I honestly can't remember the last time I used Windows. I did a full blown switch back in 2010 (literally no Windows at all!), and since I've learned that there is more you can do in Linux with a bit of patience - even gaming! I only triple booted over the last year or so because a client handed me a file
[19:51] <hazrpg>  that could only be opened with a windows app that I couldn't get to work through Wine - haven't used it since.
[19:52] <user2635> hazrpg, you're crazy, I don't know if I can get that crazy yet
[19:52] <user2635> hazrpg, there are lots of stories like yours though, I'm aware
[19:52] <user2635> main thing i'm worried about is opening word docs
[19:53] <hazrpg> Haha, I have Word running through wine ;)
[19:53] <user2635> the compatibility is not 100% so there can be format differences through libreoffice
[19:53] <Switches> Well I switched from Windows while I was actually still and OEM for Microsoft.. I've not actually used Windows at home for the past 15 years or so lol
[19:53] <user2635> hazrpg, I see, thats on my to do list to work out later on
[19:53] <daftykins> now now, it may be getting better but you can't game *MORE* in Linux :P
[19:53] <hazrpg> Its rare that LibreOffice won't open them without problems, but in those situations... wine works well with Word :)
[19:54] <hazrpg> daftykins: For everything else, I have my PS4 ;)
[19:54] <Switches> I don't know daftykins, there are certain "genres" that seem to be around a lot more for Linux than Windows, small little childrens games imo are better on Linux than anywhere else (like the teaching ones)
[19:55] <user2635> I've got to say, i don't know any nontechs using linux (even the techies I know don't use linux!)
[19:55] <Switches> lol
[19:55] <user2635> so its pretty hard to meet someone to learn from other than irc
[19:55] <Switches> Well techies can be a weird breed :p
[19:55] <hazrpg> daftykins: Although, don't get me wrong, I can't play StarCraft 2 on my PS4... but that works in Wine no problem (although I should point out, that paying for CrossOver helped sooooooooooooo much when I started getting lazy)
[19:55] <daftykins> can't say i touch small children games!
[19:55] <zmoylan-pi> i don't know any technical people _NOT_ using linux
[19:55] <user2635> zmoylan-pi, good for you!
[19:56] <daftykins> i count if you are referring to desktop OS :P
[19:56] <Switches> I used to have quite a bit to do with them when I was teaching IT, but outside of that I don't use them at home :p
[19:56] <hazrpg> Switches: part of me wonders if that's because die-hard linux nerds are also programmers that have kids though ;)
[19:56] <zmoylan-pi> most techs i know use linux for desktop os
[19:56] <Switches> hazrpg: That's sometimes the case :D
[19:57] <Switches> zmoylan-pi: Is a secret MS fan mind, He has it installed on a small box in the basement :p
[19:57] <user2635> I'm not a programmer, not clever enough
[19:57] <zmoylan-pi> where i can administer punishment beatings that it deserves...
[19:57] <Switches> lol
[19:57] <user2635> It might be an alternate career otherwise
[19:58] <Switches> user2635: You can pick up a lot using Linux, even parts of coding.
[19:58] <hazrpg> user2635: Programming isn't really that hard - getting the skills needed for a career just takes practice. :)
[19:59] <hazrpg> I'm going to sound old here, but I remember when computers came with manuals that thought you to programme using the build-in (or provided) programming language
[19:59] <hazrpg> taught* not thought
[19:59] <user2635> hazrpg, You do sound old. LOL
[19:59] <Switches> lol BBC Micro times then :p
[19:59] <user2635> Switches, hazrpg thanks guys
[19:59]  * zmoylan-pi loved the zx spectrum manual.  taught you everything
[19:59] <hazrpg> XD - I'm not that old! :P
[19:59] <user2635> Where is everyone based?
[19:59] <user2635> I'm b'ham
[19:59] <hazrpg> Still haven't hit 30 yet
[20:00]  * hamitron has concluded linux is bad for productivity... entertaining IRC channels are too distracting
[20:00] <zmoylan-pi> dublin, ireland o/
[20:00] <Switches> No worries :D
[20:00] <Switches> Ahh you're still a young'un then hazrpg
[20:00] <Switches> Bristol here
[20:00] <user2635> zmoylan-pi, coolios
[20:00] <user2635> hamitron, IRC is very distracting!
[20:01] <user2635> I'll tell you all though, if there's one thing I love, its tab completion.
[20:01] <hazrpg> user2635: to your earlier comment, it depends on the circles you follow... I once didn't know anyone that didn't use Linux at all, now all the people I know do. You tend to find you influence people, if you become knowledgable in something - especially when you can give them a good reason to switch ;)
[20:01] <hazrpg> user2635: Cumbria
[20:01] <Switches> Well we even have the one and only popey! here the voice of Mycroft ofc it's distracting lol
[20:02] <user2635> hazrpg, I didn't even know about Cumbria.. until now
[20:02] <user2635> lol
[20:02] <hazrpg> zmoylan-pi: Didn't personally have a ZX, but I did see the manual, amazing! I had a Sharp MZ-700 handed down from my dad.
[20:03] <popey> heh
[20:03] <Switches> For some people Windows is what they need (even for it's problems) for anyone who has any interest in IT, Linux is a great place to start
[20:03] <hazrpg> zmoylan-pi: My friends were rocking ZX's and C64's... I had the ancient MZ-700 :/ - still fun though :)
[20:03] <user2635> Switches, yeah.. i'm interested, Linux is a great place to start and yet I have no idea where exactly to start.. lol
[20:04] <Switches> hazrpg: rofl the MZ-700 was a good system, but was a bit of a brick..
[20:04] <hazrpg> Switches: young, yes, but lets be honest - every day still feels like a school day
[20:04] <Switches> Well you're already using it user2635, so you have started :)
[20:04] <zmoylan-pi> you can tell real linux users when they fire up their windows systems that hasn't been updated in 6 months and it takes forever to do updates... :-)
[20:04] <user2635> So what DEs are you guys using?
[20:04] <user2635> yeah i agree windows is so dam slow
[20:05] <user2635> I'm Unity, since i'm a beginner
[20:05] <Switches> For me it's Ubuntu Unity, also use Gnome and KDE when I have to
[20:05] <user2635> I know about i3, which is very hardcore
[20:05] <Switches> i3 is a terminal junkies wonderland
[20:05] <zmoylan-pi> i use xfce on xubuntu as i don't like unity
[20:06] <hazrpg> zmoylan-pi: XD I dread opening mine for that reason along!
[20:06] <user2635> tbh, I like whatever DE allows me to press super, search a program to start it
[20:06] <user2635> I believe in xfce you can press alt f2
[20:06] <Switches> :)
[20:06]  * hazrpg opens windows, shutdown... please wait while we install updates before you can continue with your shutdown...
[20:06] <user2635> zmoylan-pi, is that right?
[20:07] <daftykins> hazrpg: that's only if you don't know how to run Windows.
[20:07] <Switches> A lot of the DE have that ability now user2635, there isn't a great difference between any of them at the base, its more aesthetic
[20:07] <hazrpg> Switches: MZ-700 was a brick! Still have it, tried for years to get my hands on the printer upgrade... still haven't found one! I just had the tape drive, and some classic games.
[20:07] <Switches> :D
[20:07] <user2635> Switches, I see, I think Unity is still better for email integration and playing music. Feels more like a notification tray to me like windows
[20:07] <zmoylan-pi> never tried it. i just have a bunch of shortcuts i can start a few keystokes
[20:07] <Switches> Classic tech ftw
[20:08] <Switches> user2635: Yeah, Unity is a little weird to get used to for certain things, but once you get used to it, it becomes a real joy
[20:09] <Switches> Like the ability to hold the "Windows" key and bring up shortcuts or open the programs in the Launcher on the left by just hitting the number
[20:09] <hazrpg> daftykins: heh, it was an over exaggerating.
[20:09] <user2635> Switches, thats very important for me.. I like learning shortcuts
[20:10] <daftykins> just annoys me the stuff Linux folk say :P
[20:10] <Switches> lol
[20:10] <Switches> The worst "Linux Folk" are the actual ones that know about it :p
[20:11] <hazrpg> daftykins: I can understand that. :P
[20:11] <Switches> We tend to get very strong and passionate opinions...
[20:11] <hazrpg> I can indeed agree to that!
[20:11] <zmoylan-pi> as long as everyone agrees vim is best we all get along :-P
[20:11] <Switches> lol
[20:12] <hazrpg> lol
[20:12] <Switches> emacs!
[20:12] <user2635> I can see myself getting irc addicted
[20:12] <user2635> its going to make me antisocial
[20:12] <user2635> i better keep it to only asking questions lol
[20:12] <daftykins> depends if said passionate nature is enlightened enough to accept that nothing is without fault
[20:12] <hazrpg> user2635: or... VERY social ;) (just not irl social :P)
[20:12] <zmoylan-pi> well irc is the anti social media...
[20:13] <Switches> hmm zmoylan-pi I think you're right
[20:13] <Switches> IRC is actually the anti everything media
[20:14] <hazrpg> Then why are you all here! :o
[20:14] <Switches> That was even more true when Quakenet used to be a "big" thing cause of Gamespy :p
[20:14] <Switches> Because were all anti-social
[20:15] <user2635> Gamespy, haven't heard that word in ages
[20:15] <Switches> They think sticking all the "anti social" elements in on place called IRC was a good idea...
[20:16] <hazrpg> Is it bad that I remember Quakenet? My friends thought I was some weird kind of computer wizard just because I knew how to play quake with people at any time of the day - and they couldn't even get local multi-play to work >_<
[20:16] <user2635> I used to go on AA (America's Army)
[20:16] <Switches> lol
[20:16] <Switches> AA was a damn good game
[20:16] <Switches> Played it for years
[20:16] <Switches> I used to play a lot of quake..
[20:16] <user2635> I cheated at one point
[20:17] <user2635> what was the specific term for it
[20:17] <user2635> seeing through stuff
[20:17] <user2635> to see enemies
[20:17] <Switches> Wallhacking
[20:17] <hazrpg> Switches: I think most people did - at our school, quake was installed on all the computers by the teacher!
[20:17] <user2635> yeah.. that, I feel bad for appearing like I had super reflexes
[20:17] <user2635> lol
[20:17] <Switches> hazrpg: My kind of teacher :D
[20:17] <user2635> I never went on quake, i think i'm one of the younger ones here
[20:18] <hazrpg> Switches: She was a legend!
[20:18] <Switches> quake was a bit of a phenomenon tbh, it was the spark that started the online FPS pretty much
[20:19] <hazrpg> I felt bad for the kids who didn't learn because of it though... I think I was the only one that passed her IT lessons with high marks.
[20:19] <Switches> hehe, yeah playing quake can have an adverse effect on learning anything
[20:20] <hazrpg> Indeed it can!
[20:20] <Switches> Apart from learning how to "Rocket Jump" to reach the quad damage...
[20:20] <hazrpg> That was super important though!
[20:20] <user2635> Part of my backup failed on dejadup, it said that it couldn't backup /home/user/.cache/dconf
[20:20] <user2635> what is stored there anyway?
[20:21] <user2635> is it to worry about?
[20:21] <hazrpg> user2635: Generally speaking, anything that's cached doesn't really need to be backed up.
[20:21] <user2635> hazrpg, thanks
[20:22] <Switches> Nothing to worry about I don't think.. just watch for sparks and flames and you'll be fine! :p
[20:23] <Switches> Being honest though I don't know why its trying to back up a .cache folder anyways, those are normally not monitored
[20:24] <hazrpg> user2635: cached stuff only just speeds up operations - and dconf, in some ways, is kinda like the registery in windows (regedit)... but has much less stuff then in Windows.
[20:25] <Switches> If it fails on it again, open up the "backup" program and on the ignore folders part just add it to that
[20:26] <hazrpg> general rule, if its cache it will be rebuilt if they aren't there
[20:26] <user2635> ok I'll put it in ignore now
[20:26] <hazrpg> it just takes longer if the cache isn't there the very first time something is opened
[20:27] <user2635> good! added
[20:27] <hazrpg> (btw, that's a cool trick if something isn't working properly - sometimes clearing the cache helps!)
[20:28] <hazrpg> bah, still can't work out why nvidia isn't working right :/
[20:28] <Switches> What's it doing?
[20:29] <daftykins> logs? :>
[20:29] <daftykins> hybrid is a mess on Linux
[20:29] <hazrpg> Switches: blank screen after the splash
[20:29] <Switches> ohh it's a prime?
[20:29] <hazrpg> yup, laptop too... and I can't disable secure boot
[20:29] <user2635> hazrpg, you mean just doing a rm -r .cache? :)
[20:30] <daftykins> see if you can SSH in if it's really running but blank?
[20:30] <hazrpg> user2635: only if you want to truly be distructive! :P I meant more at an application level rm -r .cache/some-app
[20:31] <user2635> hazrpg, ohhh ok
[20:31] <hazrpg> daftykins: using it right now! I'm on irssi
[20:31] <daftykins> oh
[20:31] <hazrpg> user2635: clearing out .cache won't really cause any harm - just take longer to load anything after the fact
[20:31] <Switches> hazrpg: You took a look at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2263209?
[20:32] <Switches> There's a guy at the bottom that seems to have a "workaround" for some of it
[20:34] <hazrpg> Switches: Not sure, I'll check on my tablet. I mainly tried the stuff on askubuntu.com
[20:35] <Switches> Well seems to be the last post, so I'm guessing it has solved it for some people.
[20:36] <user2635> What difficulties did you guys have transitioning to linux?
[20:37] <Switches> I didn't really have any tbh, but then my background was with Unix and Sun Solaris systems so it wasn't as huge a jump as it is now from Windows
[20:38] <hazrpg> Switches: The second workaround won't work because I don't have that indicator installed (use to, but it caused more problems than it was worth). I'm going to try the first to see if that works, but from what I can tell prime-select is working, nvidia just doesn't seem to be "showing" anything even though I can hear the Ubuntu noise at boot... but I'll give it a go :)
[20:38] <Switches> Only real issue I had was being able to do some things without a terminal :p
[20:39] <Switches> hazrpg: Hope it works!
[20:39] <hazrpg> Switches: file changed, fingers crossed!
[20:42] <user2635> ok i'm gonna call it goodnight
[20:42] <Switches> night mate
[20:42] <user2635> it was great meeting you all hazrpg Switches
[20:42] <user2635> zmoylan-pi,
[20:42] <Switches> Same :)
[20:42] <user2635> thank you for all your guys help
[20:42] <Switches> No worries, anytime
[20:42] <zmoylan-pi> o/
[20:47] <hazrpg> Switches: *sigh* didn't work
[20:48] <Switches> :(
[21:07] <hazrpg> hmmm one thing i didnt consider is screen brightness!
[21:09] <hazrpg> going to see if that fixes it when i get back... currently picking up my wife from work
[21:10] <hazrpg> I'm going to be annoyed with myself if thats the reason its blank when using nvidia over intel
[21:22] <hazrpg> ...maybe not
[23:30] <diddledan> m00
[23:32] <zmoylan-pi> *bark* *bark*
[23:33] <diddledan> baaa
[23:33] <diddledan> omg, welsh!
[23:40] <daftykins> here's a blast from the past https://www.dropbox.com/sh/w7z0xa2pkrfwvg1/AACCM4flIZ0qHpjxxZnAXNMCa?dl=0
[23:40] <daftykins> thing still works!
[23:43] <diddledan> erhmagherd
[23:44] <daftykins> optical media O_O
[23:44] <diddledan> optics?! :-o
[23:44] <diddledan> nobody uses those
[23:44] <daftykins> i was gonna FTP the game on, but i couldn't read the ISO so it had to get burnt
[23:44] <diddledan> \o/
[23:46] <Switches> Clever gits! http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Wine-Staging-1.9.11
[23:47] <Switches> And wtf.. there are rumors on there that the AMD announcement is going to have a R480 at $199..
[23:48] <daftykins> *nod* not R480 though, RX 480
[23:48] <daftykins> the live event is at 3am allegedly
[23:48] <Switches> Still Polaris for that cheap is kind of a big deal
[23:49] <Switches> Yeah hopefully they got some details on the GPUs aswell as the APU
[23:52] <daftykins> only fussed about the graphics cards myself :) itching for an upgrade, mines so ancient
[23:55] <Switches> Well same here, but tbh the new APU has me a little interested for a HTPC/NAS build
[23:58] <daftykins> o0
[23:58] <daftykins> storage in the same place as playback ;_;
[23:59] <Switches> Well kind of, I have 4 other systems in the house and loads of tablets and phones xD


[00:16] <thumper> wallyworld_: ack, lemmie get something to eat
[00:16] <wallyworld_> ok, no rush
[00:18] <davecheney> thumper: which pocket is Juju going to ship in 14.04 ?
[00:18] <davecheney> thumper: was there any resoltuion on that discussion in SF that juju core developers should be using P
[00:20] <thumper> davecheney: well, there was the plan that the devs came up with, but that was overruled
[00:21] <thumper> davecheney: I hear that we will be in main with a dependency on juju-db not mongodb-server
[00:22] <davecheney> thumper: so, devs will not be fixed to a certain series ?
[00:22] <davecheney> thumper: wrt juju-core in main
[00:22] <davecheney> if we need to use gccgo to compile for arm (for example) that would also need to be in main ?
[00:28]  * thumper shrugs
[00:28] <thumper> probably
[00:34] <thumper> wallyworld_: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpi4lte1uucmppj5b94beve4?hl=en
[00:40] <davecheney> thumper: right, thanks for confirming
[01:05] <axw> hey thumper, was the 14.04 planning/schedule doc finalised and sent out?   ACK :)
[02:42] <thumper> bigjools: if I wanted work calls I'd go back to engineering manager
[02:42] <davecheney> axw: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6374105/
[02:42] <davecheney> any idea what happened ehre ?
[02:42] <axw> looking
[02:42] <davecheney> machine 1 is not goundf
[02:42] <davecheney> because I just deployed the first service
[02:44] <axw> sorry, no idea davecheney
[02:45] <axw> davecheney: what's going wrong exactly?
[02:46] <davecheney> juju deploy
[02:46] <davecheney> machine never comes up
[02:46] <davecheney> also, 2013-11-07 02:45:15 INFO juju password.go:94 setting password for "unit-gccgo1-0"
[02:46] <davecheney> 2013-11-07 02:45:16 INFO juju password.go:94 setting password for "unit-gccgo1-0"
[02:46] <davecheney> ^ why does it set the password twice ?
[02:47] <axw> I haven't looked at most of the provisioner code I'm afraid
[02:48] <davecheney> fair enough
[02:49] <davecheney> (not) awesome
[02:49] <davecheney> restarting the provisioner picked up the missing machine
[02:49] <davecheney> and provisioned it
[02:49] <davecheney> yay timing issues !
[02:50] <axw> I'm guessing the machine status isn't added in the same transaction
[02:52] <davecheney> my god the agents query tools a lot
[02:52] <davecheney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1248800
[02:52] <_mup_> Bug #1248800: worker/provisioner missed signal to start new machine <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1248800>
[02:55] <sinzui> davecheney, surely you can take a guess at the importance. I think we want to commit to fix that bug in the next 6 months....High
[02:55] <sinzui> davecheney, I think we have a bug already about the redundant queries
[02:57] <davecheney> sinzui: i was told not to triage bugs anymore
[02:57] <davecheney> well, not to screw with their priority
[02:57] <sinzui> oh lovely. I get to guess at all the importances
[03:10] <wallyworld_> axw: with the api design and errors, here's another example that uses the pattern - apiserver/provisioner/provisioner.go func (p *ProvisionerAPI) Status() . In this case, the Status() method can return an error preparing to execute the bulk operations, but the bulk calls themselves do not return an error, but instead record it in the result object
[03:11] <axw> wallyworld_: hmm yeah fair enough. it allows you to distinguish an error relating to the individual calls from initial setup
[03:11] <wallyworld_> yeah
[03:12] <axw> just throws me a little, because if I see no error returned, I expect that everything is fine
[03:12] <wallyworld_> i can understand that
[03:13] <wallyworld_> i depends how the api defines "fine"
[03:13] <axw> true :)
[03:33] <axw> wallyworld_: is it intentional that you can't delete environ-config attrs from state? (I guess not, but before I go changing it...)
[03:33] <axw> SetEnvironConfig updates keys that are there, but never deletes things you remove from the config
[03:34] <wallyworld_> axw: i'm not sure tbh
[03:34] <axw> ok. I'll create a bug and let someone shoot it down if needed
[03:35] <wallyworld_> axw: be warned, the config stuff has been a source of way too much bikshedding
[03:35] <axw> ok :)
[03:35] <wallyworld_> the scars run deep from what i've been told
[03:35] <axw> wallyworld_: I wouldn't care, but it actually is preventing me from testing something
[03:36] <wallyworld_> william is probably the best person to ask
[03:36] <axw> thanks, I'll run it by him later
[03:40] <axw> fwereade: when you're awake, please take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1248809
[03:40] <_mup_> Bug #1248809: state.State.SetEnvironConfig never forgets <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1248809>
[03:40] <davecheney> wallyworld_: oh yes
[03:40] <davecheney> lets not start a second land war in asia
[04:05]  * thumper going to make dinner, back later tonight for the meeting
[07:05] <fwereade> axw, got to go out to the bank -- but, yes, SetEnvironConfig hardly works at all
[07:05] <fwereade> axw, saying it was "designed" is very charitable
[07:09] <axw> fwereade: hah :)
[07:09] <axw> ok
[07:09] <axw> I saw in a comment to dimitern a bug regarding passing old/new to SetEnvironConfig
[07:09] <axw> probably they could be tackled at the same time
[07:10] <axw> fwereade: however... the new EnvironmentSet API call assumes a config subset
[07:11] <axw> so, either that would need to change, or a new API would be needed for deleting, or the current behaviour remains
[07:11] <axw> anyway, ttyl
[07:19] <axw> jam: I implemented an alternative to PushEnvironmentSecrets: https://codereview.appspot.com/22720043/
[07:19] <axw> does the same as what we do now, under the assumption the code is going to be deleted
[07:21] <jam> axw: where are you calling updateSecrets? In NewAPIConn ?
[07:22] <axw> yup
[07:22] <jam> axw: lgtm
[07:23] <axw> cool. the other way would make sense if it were to stick around, but I don't think we'll need it at all
[07:23] <axw> we should be able to start the agent up with full environment config initially with synchronous bootstrap
[07:54] <jamespage_ods> sinzui: when you start I've pushed juju-core 1.16.3 to trusty and all of the backport packages have built in the packaging PPA's
[08:07] <rogpeppe> mornin' all
[08:16] <TheMue> rogpeppe: morning
[08:16] <rogpeppe> TheMue: hiya
[09:01] <axw> fwereade: when you're back- since you started reviewing the other one, could you take a look here before I land: https://codereview.appspot.com/22720043/
[09:01]  * fwereade is backand looking at axw's branch
[09:01] <axw> ta
[09:43] <axw> sorry rogpeppe, I meant to ask about that comment - already merged
[09:43] <axw> will delete it when I touch the file next
[09:43] <rogpeppe> axw: np
[09:54] <axw> jam: I don't know the upstart config off hand, but env vars were being pushed thru there before for provider type, and I think LXC bridge type
[09:55] <axw> we moved *away* from setting env vars to simplify upgrading
[10:02] <thumper> jam, mgz: meeting time
[10:03] <thumper> fwereade: meeting
[10:03] <rogpeppe> fwereade: meeting?
[10:04] <rogpeppe> mgz: meeting?
[10:48] <thumper> night all
[11:15] <jpds> Guys, is it 'juju sync-tools --source=. --debug' to sync locally from tools/releases ?
[11:27] <jpds> Because neither --source=. or --source=tools/releases/ is working here.
[12:45] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i've just updated https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1246343
[12:45] <_mup_> Bug #1246343: destroy-environment no longer removes .jenv <charmers> <destroy-environment> <landscape> <juju-core:Triaged by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1246343>
[13:56] <rogpeppe> jam: wow, 34810 running goroutines; that's quite something.
[13:56] <jam> rogpeppe: well the go claims that there you can cheaply spawn 100,000s of them, right? :)
[13:56] <rogpeppe> jam: indeed - it's just more than i expected
[13:57] <jam> rogpeppe: yeah, with 7k agents that means almost 5 per agent
[14:02] <rogpeppe> jam: you might be interested in this - it's a characterisation of all the stack traces by set of called functions; the count is the number of goroutines with that stack trace: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6376480/
[14:04] <rogpeppe> jam: looks like everything's blocked on mongo
[14:06] <jam> rogpeppe: could be, though mongo itself was at 0% cpu during this time
[14:21] <rogpeppe> jam: goroutine 216906 seems to be the one with the lock (the write lock at any rate)
[14:27] <jcsackett> sinzui: after standup, can you look at https://code.launchpad.net/~jcsackett/charmworld/multiple-appflowers/+merge/194241 for me?
[14:27] <rogpeppe> jam: wonder if it would be useful to instrument mgo with some stats (github.com/GaryBoone/GoStats might provide an easy way to get some more useful stats without making enormous log files)
[14:32] <rogpeppe> jam: actually i may have been thinking of github.com/rcrowley/go-metrics
[15:46] <rogpeppe> natefinch: ping
[15:47] <natefinch> rogpeppe: yo
[15:48] <rogpeppe> natefinch: i've been trying to think through the failover stuff, and hit a tricky issue
[15:48] <rogpeppe> natefinch: i wondered if you wouldn't mind a chat about it to try to get my thoughts straight
[15:49] <rogpeppe> natefinch: np if inconvenient
[15:49] <natefinch> rogpeppe: sure thing
[15:50] <rogpeppe> natefinch: usual hangout?
[15:50] <natefinch> sure
[15:50] <rogpeppe> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/calendar/am9obi5tZWluZWxAY2Fub25pY2FsLmNvbQ.mf0d8r5pfb44m16v9b2n5i29ig?authuser=1
[16:10] <rogpeppe> fwereade: any chance you could join us?
[16:20] <jcastro> hey sinzui, is bug #1238934 something we can backport to saucy/precise?
[16:20] <_mup_> Bug #1238934: manual provider doesn't install mongo from the cloud archive <cloud-archive> <ssh-provider> <juju-core:Fix Committed by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1238934>
[16:20] <jcastro> or should we just have it in 1.18 as a whole and tell people to use the PPA for manual provisioning?
[16:22] <sinzui> sigh
[16:23] <sinzui> jcastro, we can, but we can do one release a week. so if it do, we delay 17 and 18
[16:23] <jcastro> sorry I didn't mean to depress you!
[16:23] <sinzui> I would like 17 next week and 18 the following week
[16:23] <jcastro> are there plans to bring 18 to precise/saucy?
[16:24] <sinzui> jcastro, all stable releases go to all supported series
[16:24] <jcastro> oh ok
[16:24] <sinzui> We always do that
[16:24] <jcastro> so waiting 2 weeks is the smart thing to do
[16:24] <sinzui> 1.16.3 will be in the archives in a few hours BTW
[16:24] <jcastro> ok I wasn't aware of the backport treadmill -- that works out for me!
[16:25] <sinzui> jcastro, I hope that with more automation, we can entertain a stable and devel release in the same week
[16:26] <jcastro> yeah I'm just trying to sync the manual provisioning docs with 1.18, but I have two weeks to figure that out, heh
[17:12] <rogpeppe> interesting: http://www.packer.io/intro
[19:01] <natefinch> rogpeppe: I saw that packer thing. Kinda neat, but not sure the real-world utility.  Sure you can take a machine and make an image for EC2 or virtualbox or whatever. You still have to make the original correctly, though, and that seems like the more interesting challenge (and the one we're tackling).
[19:02] <rogpeppe> natefinch: yeah, i haven't read it properly - just thought it looked interesting
[19:04] <natefinch> rogpeppe: yep
[19:24] <rogpeppe> natefinch: trying to work out what's going on with jam's enormous stack trace, i quickly hacked up this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6377995/
[19:24] <rogpeppe> natefinch: it analyses a stack trace and produces an SVG call graph summary
[19:25] <rogpeppe> natefinch: if you get his stack trace with: curl http://ubuntuone.com/6vKrM07H7BTHUa9Xqvy16V | ungz > /tmp/stacktrace
[19:25] <natefinch> rogpeppe: damn, roger.  Quickly hacked up.... I hope we're paying you enough :)
[19:26] <rogpeppe> natefinch: and then run the above program on it: go run stacktrace.go < /tmp/stacktrace > /tmp/x.svg
[19:26] <rogpeppe> natefinch: and open your browser on file:///tmp/x.svg
[19:26] <rogpeppe> natefinch: i stole all the interesting bits from the pprof perl script
[19:26] <rogpeppe> natefinch: (first time i've ever translated perl to Go!)
[19:27] <rogpeppe> natefinch: (first time i've ever read any perl actually :-])
[19:27]  * natefinch shudders
[19:27] <rogpeppe> natefinch: it's not too bad in that particular case
[19:28] <rogpeppe> ha!
[19:28] <rogpeppe> natefinch: i've got the arrows all backwards!
[19:28] <natefinch> heh
[19:31] <natefinch> rogpeppe: tar -xz is saying it's not in gzip format
[19:31] <rogpeppe> natefinch: sorry, i said ungz; i meant unxz
[19:31] <rogpeppe> natefinch: it's not a tar file
[19:32] <natefinch> rogpeppe: ahh right, because it's just one file. Stupid linux and it's stupid 10 different ways to pack files :/
[19:32] <rogpeppe> natefinch: this version puts the arrows in the right direction: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6378028/
[19:32] <natefinch> back in my day we only had .zip and we liked it :/
[19:33] <rogpeppe> natefinch: back in my day we only have .Z and we liked it :-)
[19:33] <rogpeppe> s/have/had/
[19:33]  * thumper is going to be taking daughter to the dentist, so not really around until later
[19:41] <natefinch> rogpeppe: took me a while, but I got there.  Pretty cool
[19:41] <rogpeppe> natefinch: cool
[20:01] <rogpeppe> right, that's me done and dusted
[20:02] <rogpeppe> natefinch: g'night
[20:02] <natefinch> rogpeppe: g'night
[20:27] <sinzui> natefinch, do you have time to build a win installer for 1.16.3 and request a signing?
[20:28] <natefinch> sinzui: sure
[20:29] <sinzui> thank natefinch
[20:29] <sinzui> ^ yoy
[20:29] <sinzui> ^ you
[20:30] <sinzui> I give up. My head hurts, I two ways of packing perfect packages, yet neither method is perfect in itself
[20:30]  * sinzui ponders the consequences to drinking and retrieving children from school
[20:36] <natefinch> sinzui: I think it's funny we're releasing a new windows client that includes a fix for the local provider.... that can't run on windows anyway :)
[20:37] <sinzui> ha ha
[20:37] <sinzui> I know
[20:37] <sinzui> natefinch, I am happy for you to say no, it is just busy work
[20:38] <natefinch> sinzui: it's super quick, no problem.  Just amusing is all.
[20:39] <sinzui> we did an ubuntu release for 1.14.1 that had no changes for ubuntu. It was just to acknowledge that windows got a different version
[21:24] <sinzui> sorry juju-gui, you got spam from me
[21:24] <sinzui> you don't want to use my devel packages
[21:26]  * thumper goes to hack on kvm stuff
[21:26] <thumper> and will effectively disconnect
[22:36] <rick_h_> thumper-hacking: yay for my lxc environment being back to being useful. Tested the updated gui with bundle super powers in it and so much nicer/faster than ec2


[03:12] <astroo-> Kaspersky Lab Uncovers “The Mask”: One of the Most Advanced Global Cyber-espionage Operations to Date Due to the Complexity of the Toolset Used by the Attackers   http://usa.kaspersky.com/about-us/press-center/press-releases/kaspersky-lab-uncovers-%E2%80%9C-mask%E2%80%9D-one-most-advanced-global-cyber-e
[03:58] <astroo-> ciao pessoal
[23:09] <astroo-> ola pessoal


[00:29] <khalid> hello. can i use lazarus to develop app for ubuntu?
[00:30] <khalid> i come from delphi background and i find lazarus is very similar to delphi
[01:13] <aw1231> hello
[01:14] <aw1231> I was wondering where I could find out where my application is in the pending review queue.