[00:55] <jellyf> the last time the topic was set on this channel was 2013?
[00:55] <jellyf> Hmm.
[01:02] <jellyf> Honestly, from what I can piece together, something happened in 2013. The mailing lists stopped then too.


[04:32] <binarycat> Why does this man suddenly touch that woman's ponytail and kiss her hand out of the blue? Context: two Swedes are visiting in Amsterdam in Holland/Netherlands. Her comment is also pretty sexually suggestive... Length: 16 seconds. URL: https://streamable.com/s/dhijh/txmoqh?autoplay=1


[00:07] <jono> cprofitt, yikes, 30 hours
[00:10] <cprofitt> yeah... that is why we ende up with the c-section
[00:11] <cprofitt> she was way to tired to go through normal labor
[00:12] <cprofitt> I was tired too, but did not have to endure the pain she was going through
[00:14] <JanC> jono: papayas should work
[00:14] <jono> JanC, really?
[00:14] <jono> cprofitt, indeed
[00:14] <jono> there is a pizza in our town called the Prego Pizza
[00:14] <jono> she tried that last night
[00:14] <jono> nada baby so far
[00:21] <JanC> jono: actually, papayas might not be a good idea, I'm not an MD (and self-medicating is probably not a good idea)
[00:21] <jono> :-)
[00:23] <JanC> jono: also, the computed "due date" is in the middle of a period that stretches up to 2 weeks to either side, as you probably know  ☺
[00:23] <jono> heading back home from coffee shop
[00:23] <jono> biab
[00:23] <jono> JanC, indeed
[00:23] <jono> our baby is at term so if he comes a little early, that is fine
[00:23] <jono> mom is just getting a bit too uncomfortable
[00:23] <jono> she is a small woman with a big bump :-)
[00:23] <JanC> hehe
[00:23] <jono> thanks, folks
[00:23] <jono> back soon
[02:37] <stochastic> Hi, I've gone ahead and made an Ubuntu network for anyone interested in participating in Movember this year and wanting to do so with other fellow Ubuntu-ites http://ca.movember.com/mospace/network/Ubuntu
[02:37] <stochastic> Please feel free to publicize this great cause
[02:37] <stochastic> and sign up yourselves
[02:37] <stochastic> this community is predominantly male afterall
[07:26] <Tm_T> very good morning everyone
[07:27] <knome> morning sunshine!
[07:27] <knome> had breakfast already?
[07:29] <Tm_T> an hour ago
[07:29] <Tm_T> or so
[07:29] <Tm_T> sunshine (=
[07:29] <knome> haha
[07:29] <knome> ok
[07:30] <knome> i'll go get grab some myself then
[07:30] <knome> see you later
[08:11] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:13] <stochastic> I realize now I posted my announcement (and this is probably the best place for said announce) at a time when everyone at UDS was sleeping.
[08:13] <stochastic> so I'm going to re-post (please forgive me if this is poor taste)
[08:14] <stochastic> Hi, I've gone ahead and made an Ubuntu network for anyone interested in participating in Movember this year and wanting to do so with other fellow Ubuntu-ites http://ca.movember.com/mospace/network/Ubuntu
[08:14] <stochastic> Please feel free to publicize this great cause
[08:14] <stochastic> and sign up yourselves
[08:14] <stochastic> Thanks
[08:14] <czajkowski> stochastic: hy not post it to UDS annouce and loco contacts
[08:14] <czajkowski> *why
[08:14] <stochastic> where do I do that?
[08:16] <czajkowski><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[08:16] <czajkowski><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[08:18] <stochastic> thanks czajkowski will do.
[08:37] <doctormon> Why do I feel like the website rules are disrespectful to the community; it feels like they're based on the premise that we let _anyone_ edit _anything_ because community means _everyone_. The rules seem to lack understanding that the community is not anarchy.
[08:38] <czajkowski> doctormon: I dont  think thats helpful, nor saying it in a channel that isnt all tuned into the session tbh
[08:39] <doctormon> czajkowski: I don't expect to be helpful, I'm typing words and helping myself to some stress relief.
[08:40]  * pleia2 hugs doctormon
[08:43] <dholbach> Can you all try to put in very brief sentences for your blueprints on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-R/Summaries?
[08:44] <knome> urr. :)
[09:52] <AlanBell> doctormon: yeah, I got that impression too from that session
[09:55] <AlanBell> will need to grab the full video of that one I think
[11:53] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-R/Summaries should be a feature of summit
[11:53] <AlanBell> add a summary field to the session and a view of it all that looks just like that page
[14:33] <czajkowski> pleia2: ~lisette-slegers  me and the etherpad are not getting on
[14:34] <cjohnston> AlanBell: it is more of a high level overview, so it doesn't belong on Summit...
[14:34] <pleia2> thank you :)
[14:35] <czajkowski> pleia2: subtle aren';t I
[14:35] <czajkowski> that's 2 more career days :)
[14:39] <AlanBell> cjohnston: ok, I just figured it could almost be generated automatically
[14:41] <cjohnston> It would get too low level if we put notes from each session
[14:46] <AlanBell> yeah, I see what you mean, it kind of needs to reach into the pad or something (plausible, but probably not worth it)
[15:59] <IdleOne> Will the closing plenary be broadcast live?
[15:59] <IdleOne> Why do I ask! all the others were
[16:11] <IdleOne> *clap clap clap* track leads :)
[16:11] <marcoceppi> http://i.imgur.com/mlBWV.gif
[16:12] <IdleOne> lol marcoceppi
[16:13] <czajkowski> whoooo yay dholbach :D
[16:20] <IdleOne> *clap clap clap* Spanish Translators :)
[16:29] <czajkowski> one should not sneeze in plenary!
[16:29] <IdleOne> hehe
[16:38] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/uds-r/actions.html actions \o/
[16:39] <czajkowski> AlanBell: that should keep some smart arses happy!
[16:39] <czajkowski> *mutters*
[16:43] <AlanBell> yeah, it was a script I wrote for last time
[16:43] <AlanBell> and a certain smart arse reminded me to run it again :)
[16:47] <IdleOne> Does that Delorion have Mr. Fusion ?
[16:56] <technoviking> Why no friday for UDS?
[16:56] <AlanBell> more time for partying I think
[16:56] <AlanBell> or some people objected to flying on weekends or something
[16:56] <technoviking> ahh.. so no one will miss Saturday flights, good call
[16:57] <IdleOne> Subliminal messages via song choices?
[21:12] <bkerensa> Hey jono
[21:12] <bkerensa> ashams and I were just talking and he has the Ubuntu Appreciation Day coming up soon
[21:12] <bkerensa> and if I remember right we had discussed the possibility of some swag for that?
[21:14] <ashams> yep, that can help alot
[21:16] <bkerensa> ashams: maybe shoot him an e-mail but yeah we should get ready to promote that
[21:17] <ashams> awesome
[21:17] <ashams> bkerensa, thanks for help :)
[21:31] <jono> hey bkerensa
[21:31] <bkerensa> ashams: you there ^
[21:32] <jono> just drop me an email
[21:32] <bkerensa> cool
[21:32] <jono> thanks
[21:32] <ashams> yep
[21:32] <bkerensa> thank you
[21:32] <ashams> thanks
[23:04] <czajkowski> evening
[23:05] <daker> hi


[06:57] <markc> would customizing the desktop on the livecd be as simple as saving a users ./kde/share to /etc/skel ?
[08:03] <markc> well, time to try out another livecd coaster
[04:24] <_admin> wow, it worked... I'm dialed in from a remastered livecd
[04:31] <Riddell> _admin: cool, how did you remaster it?
[06:01] <_admin> Riddell> oh, I've been testing apps on another screen... I didn't think anyone was alive :)
[06:02] <_admin> Riddell> I started with some details from the Ubuntu wiki about customizing and after 2WEEKS!! I finally managed to get thi sfar
[06:03] <_admin> Riddell>  without messing with d-i or udebs, so far
[06:10] <_admin> actually, time to try another coaster and see if I can finally get rid of that stupid sudo stuff once and for all.. and to kill off dhcp altogether because it keeps taking my cable connection down... but for both of these I suspect I'll have to figure out how to rebuild those udebs, once I figure out which ones
[06:30] <uniq> anyone using breezy?
[06:30] <uniq> usb storage-stuff is broken.
[07:07] <crimsun> uniq: hmm?
[07:07] <crimsun> uniq: do you mean "hotplugging a usb thumbdrive (or something similar) doesn't work?"
[07:12] <uniq> yes.
[07:12] <uniq> downgraded hotplug to hoary-version works.
[07:13] <crimsun> for Breezy? ok, I'll look.
[07:14] <crimsun> it's probably not loading sd_mod
[07:14] <uniq> apparently the same problem exists in debian sid.
[07:19] <crimsun> makes sense, Breezy's is a simple resync
[07:25] <uniq> i know.
[07:40] <crimsun> does loading sd_mod work around the issue?
[07:45] <uniq> checking..
[07:46] <uniq> yes, it does.
[07:46] <uniq> for me.. anyway.
[07:48] <crimsun> good. Will look in a bit.
[08:13] <froud> what is standard install footprint of Kubuntu after first boot, in MB
[08:13] <froud> what is standard install footprint after first boot without kde (servermode), in MB
[08:13] <froud> under qemu kubuntu install footprint with kde is 1024 MB. Is this the expected size of  the footprint on fixed media?


[20:39] <mhall119> ahoneybun: btw, our meetup group should be setup under the /pro/ubuntu account again
[20:39] <ahoneybun> nope
[20:39] <ahoneybun> Chris got it
[20:39] <mhall119> he's been refunded, according to our meetup rep
[20:40] <ahoneybun> tbh that was way too close of a call
[20:40] <mhall119> yeah, I know, balls got dropped and critical people were on holidays
[20:41] <ahoneybun> I in no way blame you or anything
[20:41] <ahoneybun> just need to make sure you know
[20:47] <ahoneybun> mhall119: ^


[09:02] <Tinkery> Hi guys.I use ubuntu for over 15 years now and ive a bit experience in python, java, php, css and ofc html. I would like to help the xubuntu development team with some tasks. Also in theming i can do a bit. I was wondering if a newby like me can assist
[09:03] <Tinkery> *newbie
[09:05] <Unit193> Heya!  Sorry I can't answer, it's very late here.  Perhaps someone in another timezone will be around in a couple hours.  ochosi is our theming guy, he's not had too much time recently so I'm sure some help with theming could be useful.
[09:06] <Tinkery> Ah ok, i will watch this chat on daily basis, currently the power prices are high here so i turn off my pc frequently currently
[09:07] <Unit193> Ah, there's certain hosted options that could help, and this is a logged channel too.
[09:08] <Tinkery> Hosted options?
[09:08] <Unit193> irccloud seems to be pretty liked, some zncs, etc?
[09:10] <Tinkery> i go look on irccloud
[09:11] <Unit193> Some things are on github, the Xubuntu tools tend to be python, you can find the greybird theme on https://github.com/shimmerproject if that's more your style?
[09:11] <Tinkery> so ive to ask ochosi for some help?
[09:12] <Tinkery> theme doesnt rly matter for me, only requirement for me is, it must be dark xD
[09:12] <Unit193> Haha, I use the Numix theme for that, but it's terribly unmaintained now. :P
[09:13] <Tinkery> Numix is nice indeed!
[09:14] <Unit193> I darkened it a little, gave it a different tint, and made the spacing a little somaller to suit my needs, but that's not Xubuntu anyway...
[09:18] <Tinkery> Haha true. I will ask ochosi what i can do :)
[11:06] <bluesabre> The flavors are going to be given a more prominent spot on the ubuntu.com website. We've been asked for a short blurb to describe Xubuntu. Here's what I've got (mainly from the website). Any changes?
[11:07] <bluesabre> Xubuntu is built around lightweight software with a lot of consideration for usability. Whether you have a high-end computer or even a moderately older machine, Xubuntu is able to provide you with a smooth and usable desktop experience. Xubuntu has an expansive list of customization options so you can make the desktop your own.
[21:04]  * Tinkery installed server, online 24/7 now
[21:05] <Tinkery> For those who dont know me, im new to this channel and have experience in administrating xubuntu pcs and a little experience with theming and some programming languages.
[23:38] <Unit193> bluesabre: Think ochosi might be around to answer?


[01:18] <lifeless> smoser: around ?
[01:19] <lifeless> smoser: I'm curious, in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~smoser/maas/maas-pkg-test/view/head:/maas-ephemeral-test-quantal.txt , why you're using libvirt, which will run dnsmasq, when you want maas to be managing dhcp and dns
[06:39] <jtv> jam, jelmer: you're not experts on “bzr builddeb” by any chance, are you?
[06:40] <bigjools> heh
[06:40] <jam> jtv: jelmer is, I am not. I don't think he's online for another hour, though
[06:40] <jtv> Any idea who might be?
[06:41] <jtv> (And don't say William, because he said to ask former bzr people!)
[06:42] <jtv> This failure looks similar<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:44] <jtv> Hi rvba
[06:44] <rvba> Hi jtv.
[06:45] <jtv> rvba: could you help me with an experiment?
[06:45] <rvba> jtv: sure
[06:45] <jtv> The package build seems to have broken.
[06:45] <jtv> So please, _don't_ update your packaging branch just yet,
[06:45] <jtv> go into your packaging branch,
[06:45] <jtv> and type:
[06:46] <jtv> bzr bd -- -k<your-gpg-key-email-address>
[06:46] <jtv> Or first, install your build-deps:
[06:46] <jtv> sudo apt-get builddep maas
[06:46] <jtv> *build-dep
[06:47] <jtv> That may install some packages that might be missing.
[06:47] <jtv> And after that, the “bzr bd” command line _should_ build a package — but currently doesn't.
[06:47] <rvba> I don't like installing the maas package on my dev machine but I guess I'll just purge it after the experiment :)
[06:48] <jtv> No need to install it.
[06:48] <jtv> Just the build dependencies.
[06:48] <rvba> Ah right.
[06:49] <rvba> jtv: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1214273/
[06:52] <jtv> rvba: then I guess that's a failed experiment...  means you don't have the required bzr plugin.  :(
[06:52] <jtv> Nobody seems able to help with this at the moment, so I'll just start bisecting.
[06:52] <jtv> Well, I _have_ started bisecting.
[06:52] <jtv> Thanks for trying though — it was worth a shot.
[06:52] <rvba> I can install the right plugin :)
[06:53] <jtv> It's called builddeb.
[06:57] <rvba> jtv: looks like I need to install quilt (http://paste.ubuntu.com/1214283/)
[06:58] <jtv> Ah yes, that too.
[07:03] <rvba> jtv: no error it seems: (that's the end of the output) http://paste.ubuntu.com/1214288/
[07:03] <jtv> !
[07:04] <jtv> What revision is your packaging branch on?
[07:04] <jtv> 971?
[07:04] <jtv> No, that's got to be the trunk revision.
[07:05] <rvba> More like 78.
[07:05] <jtv> That one's failing for me, I think.
[07:05] <rvba> What's the error?
[07:06] <jtv> No wait, I was looking at 87.  :)
[07:06] <jtv> The patching of the network settings maas_local_settings.py fails.
[07:06] <rvba> Ok, let me try with that revision.
[07:06] <jtv> Quilt calls patch, patch says it can't find the file it should patch.
[07:07] <jtv> Then it gives you the impression that it continues regardless, but the return value is 3, not 0.
[07:07] <lifeless> bigjools was having that
[07:07] <lifeless> I think
[07:07] <jtv> Yes.
[07:07] <bigjools> yes
[07:07] <bigjools> I take it the taxi didn't take too long then lifeless
[07:07] <lifeless> bigjools: apparently not
[07:07] <lifeless> bigjools: was at the airport at 25 to
[07:08] <bigjools> nic
[07:08] <bigjools> e
[07:08] <lifeless> bigjools: thanks again for the power adapter. SHEESE.
[07:08] <bigjools> did you go in the tunnel?
[07:08] <bigjools> lifeless: I saw it an thought I'd better dig up your number, yes :)
[07:08] <lifeless> there was a tunnel yes
[07:08] <lifeless> Dunno if its 'the' tunnel
[07:09]  * jtv forgets what power plugs NZ uses… not the Australian kind then I take it?
[07:09] <lifeless> Same
[07:09] <lifeless> just wouldn't be useful to me if I was in NZ and it was in Julians house.
[07:09] <jtv> I was lucky to find a converter for that in Buenos Aires… just prior to getting stuck at the airport for 5 hours or so with only Australian-style sockets for some reason.
[07:09] <jtv> Ah!
[07:10] <jtv> Now, _why_ would dh say “unknown sequence get-packaged-orig-source”?
[07:10] <jtv> lifeless, any ideas?
[07:11] <lifeless> jtv: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets#Australian_standard_AS.2FNZS_3112_.28Australasian_10.C2.A0A.2F240.C2.A0V.29 specifically :P
[07:11] <rvba> jtv: same problem here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1214295/
[07:11] <lifeless> jtv: I've no idea, I haven't, and don't plan on, used/using bzr-builddeb that way :)
[07:11] <jtv> rvba: thanks — that puts it somewhere between r78 and now.
[07:11] <lifeless> jtv: I'm fairly sure thats not a standard target
[07:12] <jtv> Clearly it isn't.
[07:12] <jtv> But then who invokes it and why?
[07:14] <jtv> Looks like r81 is OK.
[07:14] <lifeless> check your rules file
[07:15] <jtv> There is a target of that name there.
[07:15] <jtv> What am I looking for?
[07:15] <jtv> r81 is OK, r85 is broken.
[07:16] <lifeless> jtv: so - http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html - no mention of your custom target.
[07:17] <jtv> Is it a custom target?
[07:17] <lifeless> to find what invokes it, you probably need to grep around and follow every possible lead
[07:17] <lifeless> yes, its not part of the stock debian toolchain
[07:17] <bigjools> it's a builddeb target
[07:18] <jtv> That's strange.  William/Steve mentioned the question of whether the package supported get-packaged-orig-source, and having the target in the rules file was more or less the definition of support.
[07:18] <lifeless> it looks like a builddeb special
[07:18] <lifeless> https://code.launchpad.net/~jelmer/bzr-builddeb/get-packaged-orig-source/+merge/83980
[07:22] <jtv> Looks as if the addition of tests broke things: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~maas-maintainers/maas/packaging/revision/82
[07:24] <jtv> I need to afk for a bit.  But r82 of the packaging branch seems to be the problem.  It doesn't help that I reviewed it.  :)
[07:25] <jam> bigjools: so do we need to teach the launchpad email parser about pirate speak? merge: be approved
[07:27] <jam> rejected could be: "merge: to davy Jones' Locker wit ye"
[07:54] <bigjools> jam: your MP is going to walk the plank, arrrr
[08:13] <jtv> jam: what bigjools said.  And likewise if you extend bzr's revision specs to accept “arrrr931”
[08:25] <jam> :)
[08:27] <bigjools> the "bring out your dead" van is going down the street
[10:52] <jam> jtv: there is a rule for 'get-orig-source' vs 'get-orig-packaged-source' I wonder if they could be combined somehow?
[10:53] <jtv> jam: I have absolutely no idea.
[10:53] <jam> I wonder if builddeb is thinking it can pass a rule down to 'dh' and it will run the equivalent of make -f debian/rules $RULE
[10:53] <jam> I would guess offhand that builddeb is ignoring that failure as not supported
[10:54] <jam> unfortunately our master jelmer is still feeling quite ill today
[10:56] <jam> jtv: I do see this in the builddeb code: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1214596/
[10:56] <jtv> Yes, I get that in the output.
[10:57] <jtv> Maybe it's a simple matter of disabling get-orig-source?
[10:57] <jam> however, I see no such thing in http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html
[10:57] <jam> which seems to say 'get-orig-source' is the right thing to do.
[10:57] <jam> jtv: looking at the bzr-builddeb code, it would be as simple as doing:
[10:58] <jam> get-packaged-orig-source: get-orig-source
[10:58] <jam> so the 'make -f debian/rules' will be happy
[10:58] <jtv> Unfortunately I'm running out of time for experimenting with this… do you get the failure too?
[10:59] <jam> jtv: I'm not sure how to 'build the package' where are you running 'bzr builddeb' ?
[10:59] <jam> and not (bzr builddeb -S or whatever those things are)
[11:00] <jam> jtv: I don't see the dh failures, I see 'Trying to run get-packaged-orig-source' which then cleanly falls back to 'get-orig-source'.
[11:00] <jtv> cd into a packaging branch and run “bzr builddeb -- -k<your-gpg-key-email-address>”
[11:00] <jam> I'll see if I can trigger the failure you're seeing
[11:00] <jam> right now it is still exporting
[11:00] <jam> and doing it from lp:maas even though I have a local copy :(
[11:00] <jtv> Be sure to try this on r82 or higher.
[11:01] <jtv> Yeah, it sure likes slow downloads.
[11:01] <jam> I'm on 87
[11:01] <jam> yeah, it is re-downloading all of maas
[11:01] <jam> because that is what 'make get-orig-source'  says to do
[12:04] <jam> It looks like I broke Jenkins, but I can't get the <IP_ADDRESS> to load
[12:04] <jam> to find out any actual details
[12:04] <jam> and the public one just says "No Changes"
[12:33] <smoser> lifeless, i do not have libvirt running dnsmasq in that. at least if i did then i had meant to disable that.
[12:34] <smoser> i chose to use libvirt becaues it fairly simply a.) sets up nat b.) sets up bridges c.) starts the stuff on boot
[12:34] <lifeless> smoser: it seems highly likely that your emulated network is the cause of the fault, is all.
[12:34] <smoser> d.) will eventually allow me to plug in virsh power control for a set of systems  (similar to how vdenv does it) and let maas power on and off systems.
[12:35] <smoser> lifeless, why would you say that?
[12:35] <lifeless> IIRC the symptoms you had were being unable to reach the tftp server, which is a networking issue, if the tftp server service is running.
[12:35] <smoser> well, no
[12:36] <smoser> see the last comment there
[12:36] <smoser> https://bugs.launchpad.net/maas/+bug/1051626
[12:36] <smoser> its strange. the tftp *does* work. it *does* get pxelinux.0 in both cases.
[12:37] <smoser> the only thing i could guess was that pxelinux was making a decision based on the netmask of its IP adn the address of the server.
[12:37] <smoser> and chaning its behavior.
[12:40] <smoser> lifeless, does that make any sense to you?
[12:40] <smoser> because it didn't make any sense to me.
[12:40] <smoser> and all i could really think was, same as you, it didn't really get the pxelinux.0 file
[12:40] <smoser> but it says it did.
[12:43] <lifeless> smoser: sorry, its nearly 1am and I just got off a plane, I'll follow up tomorrow
[12:46] <smoser> sure.
[12:46] <smoser> i notcie that i am running a dnsmasq for dns
[12:46] <smoser> but it is not running dhcp
[12:46] <smoser> so that is not the issue
[13:24] <smoser> anyone want to pick this off really quick:
[13:24] <smoser> https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/maas/trunk.enlist_minor/+merge/125199
[13:24] <roaksoax> jtv: maybe it is becuase you issue bzr debbuild instead ob bzr builddeb (or bzr bd)
[13:24] <smoser> roaksoax,
[13:25] <roaksoax> smoser: lookin
[13:25] <roaksoax> looking*
[13:26]  * roaksoax has a crappy netework connection today :(
[13:27] <roaksoax> smoser: done
[14:28] <rvba> roaksoax: Hi there.  jam approved your branches but some tests are still missing.  I'm working on it right now.
[14:32] <roaksoax> rvba: yeah I saw and got them approved and they got merged
[14:34] <rvba> roaksoax: all right.  That's you unblocked then.  Gavin and I will work on adding a few tests.
[14:34] <roaksoax> rvba: awesome thanks
[14:35] <roaksoax> rvba: now, I've been thinking on getting the available releases vs dynamically adding new ones. I just realized that enums.js is created on packagebuild so if any release is not available during build time, it won't be shown on the UI at all if it becomes available later on, right?
[14:36] <rvba> roaksoax: indeed.
[14:37] <rvba> roaksoax: we could add an API method to get the available release and use that method in the UI.
[14:37] <rvba> releases*
[14:39] <roaksoax> rvba: yeah I think something like that would be necessary. I have a few improvements ideas too related to maas-import-pxe-files too so i'm trying to write them down and i'll send an email
[14:39] <rvba> roaksoax: cool
[15:26] <rvba> roaksoax: now it's my turn, I need your help with a change I need to make in the packaging.  It's related to bug 1050492.  I've created the following MP: https://code.launchpad.net/~rvb/maas/packaging.set-rabbitmq-creds/+merge/125248.
[15:26]  * roaksoax looks
[15:27] <roaksoax> rvba: so that password is only on maas_local_settings.py?
[15:28] <rvba> roaksoax: yes.  And then every cluster that will be accepted in the region controller will get these credentials.
[15:29] <roaksoax> rvba: ok so you want me to generate a password and set it on maas_local_settings.py?
[15:29] <rvba> roaksoax: that's what I tried to do in that branch yes.  Generate a password, create the rabbitmq user, and then set BROKER_URL in maas_local_settings.py.
[15:30] <rvba> roaksoax: configure_maas_workers_rabbitmq_user is very similar to configure_maas_txlongpoll_rabbitmq_user.
[15:31] <roaksoax> rvba: where's the branch?
[15:31] <rvba> roaksoax: see the MP address I pasted above.
[15:31] <rvba> https://code.launchpad.net/~rvb/maas/packaging.set-rabbitmq-creds/+merge/125248
[15:33] <roaksoax> rvba: alright, i'll review it and merge it right after I finish something :)
[15:33] <rvba> roaksoax: cool, thanks a lot.  I've got a few questions but let me know when you'll be available.
[15:34] <roaksoax> rvba: give me say 20 mins
[15:34] <rvba> Sure, no problem.
[15:40] <rvba> roaksoax: I just realized that if we land this now it will break the package because the cluster controller still relies on the fact that we're using the default credentials to connect to RabbitMQ.  My change needs to be landed when we will have a separate maas-cluster package.
[15:41] <roaksoax> rvba: ok, so that just made me think something. So cluster controller is the master MAAS, and what are you calling the client MAAS?
[15:42] <roaksoax> how will the client MAAS know the password to connecto to RabbitMQ?
[15:42] <rvba> The region controller is the master MAAS.
[15:42] <rvba> So the plan is this:
[15:43] <rvba> When a cluster controller is installed, a debconf question asks for the address of the Region controller.
[15:43] <rvba> Then a script connect to the API of the region controller and says: I'm the cluster controller with UUID=1234.
[15:44] <rvba> The on the region controller, an admin has to accept that cluster controller.
[15:44] <rvba> The cluster controller then polls the region controller, waiting for an admin to accept the cluster controller.
[15:45] <rvba> So the answer of the region controller to the cluster controller is: "hold on, an admin need to accept you"
[15:45] <rvba> When an admin accepts the cluster controller, then the answer changes (remember the cluster controller is still polling).
[15:46] <rvba> The answer now contains the credentials so that the cluster controller can now connect to RabbitMQ.
[15:46] <roaksoax> rvba: right, the anwer that contains the credentials, need to be written on maas_local_settings?
[15:47] <rvba> The cluster controller will do that each time the service is started, but, in my example, next time the cluster controller starts, it will already be accepted in the region controller so the credentials will be sent right away.
[15:47] <roaksoax> rvba: right, but when it has the response with the credentials, does it have to write them somewhere? i.e. maas_local_settings?
[15:48] <rvba> roaksoax: well, yes. For two reasons: a) the region controller need to be able to send tasks via RabbitMQ and b) the region controller need to be able to send the credentials to the cluster controllers.
[15:48] <roaksoax> rvba: ok, so that process or writing into maas_local_settings will be done wher? upstart?
[15:48] <roaksoax> or within the django code?
[15:48] <roaksoax> cause note that packaging cannot do that in that particular case
[15:48] <rvba> roaksoax: no, the cluster controller will use the credentials to start celeryd: celeryd -borker-url=123
[15:49] <rvba> broker-url*
[15:50] <roaksoax> right
[15:50] <roaksoax> so the package will only install the cluster controller
[15:50] <roaksoax> and after installation has finished
[15:50] <roaksoax> then the cluster controller will modify maas_local_settings.py
[15:51] <rvba> There is no maas_local_settings.py on the cluster side.
[15:51] <roaksoax> oh ok, but where is this information stored then?
[15:52] <rvba> It does not need to be stored: the upstart script of the cluster will contact the API of the region controller to get the credentials every time it starts.
[15:52] <roaksoax> ah!! I see
[15:59] <rvba> roaksoax: ok, I've added a card on our kb board.  This MP is on hold for now.  We need a separate cluster controller package with all the polling logic in place before we can land this.
[16:04] <roaksoax> rvba: ok, cool. So now, we need to start figuring out what part of the software is that we want on the region, and what on the cluster
[16:04] <roaksoax> rvba: so, what does the region does not do in comparison to the current package we have. What does the cluster controller do?
[16:05] <rvba> roaksoax: indeed.  But that's pretty well defined already.  The cluster contains pserv, the dhcp stuff and celery.
[16:05] <rvba> roaksoax: Julian started working on that.  He wants to touch base with you guys about it.
[16:06] <roaksoax> rvba: righjt, but we need to figure out what's common code, and what pieces of the code we need. then we need to split up postinst
[16:07] <roaksoax> rvba: so for example, maas package should now pull both region and cluster controllers and have everything running in one machine
[16:07] <rvba> roaksoax: right.
[16:07] <roaksoax> the maas-region only the region code
[16:07] <roaksoax> and etc et
[16:07] <roaksoax> rvba: which means that, do they all have to install src/maasserver? do they all have to install src/provisioningserver? etc etc
[16:08] <rvba> roaksoax: the region needs all the code.  The cluster needs src/provisioningserver.
[16:08] <roaksoax> rvba: so region *also* needs src/provisioning server then?
[16:08] <rvba> roaksoax: yes.
[16:09] <rvba> roaksoax: that's because of celery.  The signature of the tasks are defined in src/provisioningserver.
[16:09] <rvba> roaksoax: but maybe we could have a maas-common package with all the code and then maas-region and maas-cluster could contain only the upstart scripts.
[16:09] <rvba> That's just an idea for now.
[16:09] <rvba> Julian is the packaging expert on our side :).
[16:12] <roaksoax> rvba: yeah, well let's see what julian says
[16:13] <rvba> roaksoax: yep.  I hope he will be able to make progress on this front soon as this is a fairly large change which will require a lot of testing.  Plus it's blocking some work that needs to be done.
[16:14] <roaksoax> right, this is not gonna be an easy thing though :)
[16:14] <rvba> It should.
[16:14] <rvba> roaksoax: you don't overlap much with Julian do you?
[16:15] <roaksoax> rvba: no I don't unfortunately
[16:15] <roaksoax> rvba: i don't at all TBH
[16:15] <roaksoax> rvba: do we also need metadaserver on the cluster I guess?
[16:16] <rvba> roaksoax: no, that's on the region too.
[16:17] <roaksoax> rvba: so machines deploying will contact the region instead of the cluster controller to get the meta-data they need, say commissioning?
[16:17] <rvba> roaksoax: yes.
[16:18] <roaksoax> rvba: ok, but what if you put the cluster to deploy nmodes on a particular network that you dont want to access the region?
[16:19] <rvba> roaksoax: I guess we will need to add some sort of proxy in that case.
[16:19] <roaksoax> rvba: would provisioningserver still be considered django code?
[16:19] <roaksoax> no right?
[16:20] <rvba> That's celery code really.
[16:20] <rvba> It simply contains celery tasks.
[16:20] <roaksoax> rvba: pr im othjer words, what's considered django code? maasserver metadaserver?
[16:20] <rvba> Yes, these two.
[16:21] <rvba> And it's not considered django code, it *is* django code :).
[16:21] <rvba> Well, python code based on Django.
[16:21] <mgz> what will the clusters use for storage initially, just the filesystem?
[16:22] <roaksoax> rvba: so the cluster controller does not need src/maas right?
[16:22] <rvba> roaksoax: no.
[16:22] <mgz> I'm not sure what things are going to look like after the first pass of multi-cluster support either really...
[16:22] <rvba> mgz: I guess so for now, since mongodb has been ruled out.
[16:23] <mgz> but they run some kind of server that exposes an api?
[16:23] <rvba> No.
[16:23] <rvba> They are just celery nodes.
[16:23] <mgz> so nodes on commissioning will post directly to the region controller?
[16:24] <rvba> Yes.
[16:24] <rvba> There is no way around that right now.
[16:24] <mgz> okay, thanks, that clarifies the scope of what I need to do right now quite a bit.
[16:25] <roaksoax> rvba: so this is what I'm thinking: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1215097/
[16:27]  * roaksoax bbl
[16:28] <rvba> roaksoax: looks good to me.  There is something else: we need a special controller called the master which is in charge of dealing with master tasks like setting up the DNS.
[16:29] <rvba> roaksoax: Julian mentioned we could use a virtual package for that.  That package would basically be a cluster controller package but configured slightly differently (instead of generating a UUID to send to the region controller, that cluster would be called… wait for it… 'master').
[16:30] <roaksoax> right
[16:30] <roaksoax> yeah that'
[16:30] <roaksoax> s easy to add
[16:30] <roaksoax> I think i'd need to catch up with him
[16:30] <roaksoax> anyways
[16:30] <roaksoax> i'll be back later
[16:53] <allenap> roaksoax: Hello!
[16:53] <allenap> roaksoax: How do you feel about creating a new binary package for the cli?
[16:54] <allenap> roaksoax: I see you're away. I'll email you about it.
[16:56] <roaksoax> allenap will be available in 10 mins
[16:56] <allenap> roaksoax: I'll be away in 10 minutes, and there's enough detail that it's worth emailing anyway.
[17:06] <roaksoax> allenap: k
[17:13] <roaksoax> allenap: if you happen to see this, tell me where's your CLI and what does it need and I'll create a new package. it is simple enough to do
[17:37] <roaksoax> smoser: around?
[17:38] <smoser> roaksoax, here.
[17:38] <roaksoax> smoser: could you please approve this: https://code.launchpad.net/~andreserl/maas/maas_correct_paths/+merge/125286
[17:41] <smoser> roaksoax, this grades on me.
[17:41] <smoser> the right fix to that problem is NOT TO SPECIFY FULL PATHS!
[17:42] <smoser> why do people do that?
[17:42] <smoser> why do they want their code to break because a program changes path?
[17:43] <roaksoax> smoser: i agree we should not need to specify paths, but well... we shoudl raise that upstream
[17:43] <smoser> why do they not want me to be able to put preferred versions of a program in /opt/bin and do the right thing?
[17:45] <roaksoax> heh
[17:53] <smoser> https://bugs.launchpad.net/maas/+bug/1053025
[19:03] <roaksoax> smoser: i think you are gonna like this:
[19:03] <roaksoax> smoser: https://code.launchpad.net/~andreserl/maas/maas_packaging_fixe_bzr1030/+merge/125313
[19:23] <roaksoax> smoser: thanks!!
[20:47]  * roaksoax lunch
[23:09] <wkharold> juju issue after successful maas install:
[23:09] <wkharold> 2012-09-19 18:08:22,490 DEBUG Initializing juju status runtime
[23:09] <wkharold> 2012-09-19 18:08:22,503 INFO Connecting to environment...
[23:09] <wkharold> 2012-09-19 18:08:22,783 DEBUG Connecting to environment using maas07...
[23:09] <wkharold> 2012-09-19 18:08:22,784 DEBUG Spawning SSH process with remote_user="ubuntu" remote_host="maas07" remote_port="2181" local_port="59813".
[23:09] <wkharold> 2012-09-19 18:08:23,334:3276(0x7f39ca8ec700):ZOO_INFO@log_env@658: Client environment:zookeeper.version=zookeeper C client 3.3.5
[23:09] <wkharold> 2012-09-19 18:08:23,335:3276(0x7f39ca8ec700):ZOO_INFO@log_env@662: Client environment:host.name=maasctrl
[23:09] <wkharold> 2012-09-19 18:08:23,335:3276(0x7f39ca8ec700):ZOO_INFO@log_env@669: Client environment:os.name=Linux
[23:09] <wkharold> 2012-09-19 18:08:23,335:3276(0x7f39ca8ec700):ZOO_INFO@log_env@670: Client environment:os.arch=3.2.0-30-generic
[23:09] <wkharold> 2012-09-19 18:08:23,336:3276(0x7f39ca8ec700):ZOO_INFO@log_env@671: Client environment:os.version=#48-Ubuntu SMP Fri Aug 24 16:52:48 UTC 2012
[23:09] <wkharold> 2012-09-19 18:08:23,338:3276(0x7f39ca8ec700):ZOO_INFO@log_env@679: Client environment:user.name=ubuntu
[23:09] <wkharold> 2012-09-19 18:08:23,341:3276(0x7f39ca8ec700):ZOO_INFO@log_env@687: Client environment:user.home=/home/ubuntu
[23:09] <wkharold> 2012-09-19 18:08:23,341:3276(0x7f39ca8ec700):ZOO_INFO@log_env@699: Client environment:user.dir=/var/lib/maas/media/storage
[23:09] <wkharold> 2012-09-19 18:08:23,341:3276(0x7f39ca8ec700):ZOO_INFO@zookeeper_init@727: Initiating client connection, host=localhost:59813 sessionTimeout=10000 watcher=0x7f39c88906b0 sessionId=0 sessionPasswd=<null> context=0x30f5910 flags=0
[23:09] <wkharold> 2012-09-19 18:08:23,343:3276(0x7f39c55ea700):ZOO_INFO@check_events@1585: initiated connection to server [<IP_ADDRESS>:59813]
[23:09] <wkharold> 2012-09-19 18:08:24,250:3276(0x7f39c55ea700):ZOO_ERROR@handle_socket_error_msg@1603: Socket [<IP_ADDRESS>:59813] zk retcode=-4, errno=112(Host is down): failed while receiving a server response
[23:09] <wkharold> 2012-09-19 18:08:27,587:3276(0x7f39c55ea700):ZOO_WARN@zookeeper_interest@1461: Exceeded deadline by 911ms
[23:09] <wkharold> 2012-09-19 18:08:27,588:3276(0x7f39c55ea700):ZOO_ERROR@handle_socket_error_msg@1579: Socket [<IP_ADDRESS>:59813] zk retcode=-4, errno=111(Connection refused): server refused to accept the client
[23:09] <wkharold> oops, that's from juju -vvv status after an uneventful juju bootstrap


[20:00] <robert_ancell> cyphermox, what is the method to add a PPA to the installer?
[20:40] <cyphermox> robert_ancell: ubiquity?
[20:41] <robert_ancell> cyphermox, I think you said there was a method to get the installer to download updates from a PPA so you can test new packages. I would need to update ubiquity and partman-crypto etc
[20:41] <cyphermox> for ubiquity I'd stop it early enough to add the ppa to sources.list, and if it's not for a package that ubiquity has a copy of (d-i sources like partman-*), should work
[20:41] <cyphermox> robert_ancell: for that I'd build ubiquity in a PPA, along with partman, and install them manually just before X comes up
[20:42] <cyphermox> I'm not sure a PPA would cut it
[20:42] <cyphermox> ie. adding a PPA in the installer environment won't update the version of ubiquity you're using
[20:43] <robert_ancell> cyphermox, ah, so how do you stop it and update?
[20:43] <robert_ancell> Or is just building new images the best method
[20:44] <robert_ancell> I was looking at uck - is that the easiest method?
[20:44] <cyphermox> so, you could start an iso with break=bottom added to the parameters, so you get thrown into a shell at the end of the initrd, then chroot into /root, get online (dhclient eth0 or something), and possibly do  add-apt-repository (but I haven't tried) or add it manually to /etc/apt/sources.list to update ubiquity and any other packages
[20:44] <cyphermox> rolling your own custom iso is kind of tricky, and I haven't had much success with uck
[20:45] <cyphermox> do you already have things built in a PPA?
[20:47] <robert_ancell> No, I'm just testing debconf stuff on my test machine but I'm trying to work out the next step when it's more complete and I need to check it actually works on an install
[20:47] <cyphermox> ok
[20:48] <cyphermox> so, my opinion is that it would probably be easier to start a standard iso, use break=bottom and change what you need to test the new packages
[20:50] <robert_ancell> cyphermox, ok, thanks
[20:53] <cyphermox> robert_ancell: there is also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubiquity/Testing
[20:58] <CarlFK> robert_ancell: what PPA do you want to add (I am not sure what debconf stuff is so maybe just addding a PPA to preseed:  d-i apt-setup/local0/repository string http://ppa.launchpad.net/carlfk/ppa/ubuntu oneiric main
[20:58]  * CarlFK runs off to get lunch
[21:03] <robert_ancell> cyphermox, was what CarlFK is saying the thing you suggested the other day?
[21:09] <cyphermox> robert_ancell: no, that would happen too late, that's meant for the installed system, not the installer environment
[21:09] <robert_ancell> OK
[21:49] <cyphermox> robert_ancell: ah, got the list of the commands to customize the iso without uck
[21:49] <cyphermox> robert_ancell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10531611/
[21:50] <robert_ancell> cyphermox, awesome, thanks!
[21:50] <cyphermox> that should let you modify the squashfs, and rebuild the iso to get a new one, with as close as I could get to the exact parameters used by debian-cd/livecd-rootfs
[21:51] <cyphermox> but yeah, if you just boot an iso and pass break=bottom to the kernel command line, you can then chroot /root and get the same kind of chroot to be able to make last-minute changes


[03:22] <elky> was the jackcom stuff earlier bordering on asking how to hack a router?
[03:24] <elky> was asking about nmap earlier too
[03:28] <elky> DalekSec^
[03:28] <Unit193> Hi.
[03:28] <elky> hi. i get the feeling jackcom might be trying to hack someone
[03:43] <DalekSec> Looks like a long way for him to go either way.
 what is awk?
[10:43] <Unit193> john0123<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has left #ubuntu ("GAS THE KIKES") || john0123<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has left #ubuntu ("NIGGER")
[10:50] <k1l_> forwarded him here.
[15:32] <k1l_> second time now evading a mute/ban.


[01:55] <boredandblogging> jpds: so its ok if we pursue our own logging solution?
[09:32] <jpds> boredandblogging: I'd try poking the folks in #ubuntu-eu.


[14:28] <zniavre> a friend leaves his mac OSX at home, it's quite nice it's my first experience with OSX


[00:03] <cmars> hi there, can i get a review of https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/7228 ?
[00:30] <wallyworld> cmars: looking
[00:38] <wallyworld> cmars: reviewed with a wish to count unknown OS type also
[02:40] <cmars> wallyworld, excellent suggestions, updated 7228, ptal
[02:40] <wallyworld> cmars: looking
[02:41] <cmars> bah
[02:41] <cmars> i could collapse that increment
[02:41] <cmars> one sec
[02:41] <wallyworld> cmars: yeh, lgtm, feel free to land
[02:42] <cmars> wallyworld, all right, thanks!
[04:45] <anastasiamac> wallyworld: axw: jam: thumper: menn0: here is another re-occurence of wrong upgrade to devel version when a released is out: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1681853
[04:45] <mup> Bug #1681853: Juju Tools Upgrade from 2.0.2 to 2.1.2 fails: ERROR no matching tools available <juju:Incomplete> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1681853>
[04:46] <wallyworld> anastasiamac: that's a x-stream issue
[04:49] <anastasiamac> wallyworld: my wording is poor - from 2.0.2 to <IP_ADDRESS> when 2.1.2 is expected
[05:05] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: wanna talk about networking stuff?
[05:06] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: sure, just in meeting, will finish real soon
[05:06] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: okies
[05:16] <axw> wallyworld: FYI on vsphere, apt update/dist-upgrade are being run
[05:16] <wallyworld> axw: on xenial?
[05:16] <axw> wallyworld: yes
[05:16] <wallyworld> ok, tahnks. i'll test on aws also
[05:17] <wallyworld> might just be joyent
[05:20] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: now?
[05:20] <wallyworld> standup HO?
[05:20] <babbageclunk> yup
[05:24] <thumper> this bug is turning into a world of hurt
[05:24]  * thumper is done for today
[05:39] <menn0> jam: this PR puts the beings docs on a diet: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/7230
[05:41] <jam> menn0: looking
[05:44] <jam> menn0: reviewed
[05:45] <menn0> jam: thanks
[05:45] <menn0> jam: I agree that iter is better. will change
[05:46] <menn0> jam: and yes the proposed upgrade step and/or pruning logic will take care of old data
[05:47] <menn0> jam: regarding the upgrade step, I'm not sure if we can safely do it as API connections are already up when the upgrade-steps worker runs.
[05:48] <jam> menn0: we have db migration steps that sync between the controllers, don't we?
[05:48] <jam> menn0: ISTR there was a place that triggered really early because of stuff like that
[05:53] <menn0> jam: we do but the worker doesn't come up until there's an API connection
[05:54] <menn0> jam: the state upgrade steps are now defined and run separately from the rest but still within the one worker
[05:54] <menn0> jam: really we need 2 upgrade-steps workers
[05:54] <jam> menn0: sounds like we do
[05:54] <jam> pre-api, and post-api
[05:54] <menn0> yep
[05:54] <menn0> sigh
[05:54] <menn0> I can't really spend much more time on this
[05:55] <menn0> jam: maybe we just get the presence pruning done, negating the need for the nuke-from-orbit upgrade step
[05:55] <menn0> although a "compact" call after that first big prune wouldn't go astray
[05:55] <menn0> jam: ^^
[06:00] <jam> menn0: presence pruning is generally useful, and I guess it would push out all the old data pretty quickly since everything would be new after an upgrade
[06:53] <axw> anastasiamac: would you please review? https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/7231
[06:57] <axw> or jam, wallyworld ^^
[06:58] <jam> axw: lgtm
[06:58] <axw> jam: ta
[07:45] <wallyworld> axw: sorry, was out talking to anastasia
[07:45] <axw> wallyworld: all good
[11:51] <wpk> quick one: https://github.com/juju/utils/pull/271
[21:20] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: any chance i can arm twist you for a review on that PR?
[21:20] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: looking at it right now, sorry!
[21:21] <wallyworld> np
[21:21] <wallyworld> hml: your test skip pr is good to land
[21:22] <hml> wallyworld: cool, tx
[21:26] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: LGTM. What's JEM?
[21:26] <babbageclunk> (I had thought you were saying JUMM in Strine.)
[21:26] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: Juju Environment Manager (from memory)
[21:26] <wallyworld> it's the controller proxy
[21:27] <babbageclunk> Thanks - what does JIMM stand for again?
[21:28] <wallyworld> can't recall exactly right now!
[21:54] <wallyworld> thumper: got 30 seconds to jump back into release HO?
[23:55] <thumper> first part: https://github.com/juju/cmd/pull/51


[17:29] <eventingmonkey> Hello, I am looking for information about the loco team in Austin. Is it still a thing? I looked through the wiki (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AustinTeam), but it looks out of date.


[02:27] <hendry> have there been any linux-image/grub issues of late?
[06:23] <xwing> I need to persis settings i made with ethtool/mii-tool to persist across reboots. Could someone help out a noob?
[06:24] <xwing> i need to set the link rate to 10mbps but i have to make the setting every time i boot up
[06:24] <xwing> using dapper flight 6


[11:46] <leppeK> Hi, any way to configure a multipath route via netplan?
[11:46] <leppeK> for example i want to add a route like:
[11:46] <leppeK> ip route delete default
[11:46] <leppeK> ip route add default scope global nexthop dev ens192 via <IP_ADDRESS> weight 1 nexthop dev ens224 via <IP_ADDRESS> weight 1
[11:46] <leppeK> i am aware of asynchronous routing but it is not an issue in this setup.
[11:56] <slyon> leppeK: No that's not possible via netplan
[12:01] <leppeK> I've currently fixed it via networkd-dispatcher. any plans to add such features in the future?
[12:05] <slyon> We do have a feature request for ECMP: https://bugs.launchpad.net/netplan/+bug/1923190 but implementation is not scheduled on the immediate roadmap
[12:10] <leppeK> Alright, thanks slyon
[16:21] <xMopx> i'm noticing that, on 22.04, i need to specify the MAC address of bridge interfaces in netplan configs. Here's my config with the line in question highlighted: https://pastebin.com/raw/0TWQHVvQ
[16:22] <xMopx> on 20.04 (netplan package version 0.103-0ubuntu5~20.04.5), the bridge interface seemed to automatically clone the mac address of (in my case) eno1. But on 22.04 (0.104-0ubuntu2), eno1 comes up with a random mac
[16:22] <xMopx> is this expected? A bug? I didn't see anything clearly related to this in the changelog but i could have missed it


[00:35] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_stable_kalgebra build #36: FAILURE in 19 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_stable_kalgebra/36/
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 Alt+space is just wired into my brain now.
[01:10] <valorie> me too
[01:11] <valorie> I would never use alt+f3
 @ahoneybun, for which thing?
 @valorie, exactly all the alt+f# shortcuts in Plasma are terrible only one makes sense
[01:12] <valorie> I mean I would never use that menu
 why not?
[01:13] <valorie> what's the point?
[01:13] <valorie> use the keyboard to open a menu and then have to mouse over to the menu?
[01:13] <valorie> and I don't use a mouse, just a touchpad
 huh? you can use the arrow keys to navigate the menu
[01:14] <valorie> ok
[01:14] <valorie> just have never worked that way
 that menu makes it fast to move windows to different desktops, monitors, and easily remove the borders on a window . . . all kinds of stuff
[01:15] <valorie> that's the problem -- everyone has a different workflow
 it also works with keyboard sequence shortcuts
[01:15] <valorie> and it's hard to understand the needs of someone who works differently
 thats not a problem, people can ignore it forever and it not affect them.
[01:15] <valorie> right
 for those who dont use it, it doesnt matter what the shortcut is
 however the massive amount of people who do use it, they expect a specific shortcut because it is a standard across Windows and every other Linux DE. Plasma always fighting standards is painful to me
[01:17] <valorie> I guess discuss it with Nate
 that will happen as well
[01:19] <valorie> he's willing to fight for reasonable changes
[01:19] <valorie> and since I have no skin in this game, I'm not
 I dont care what KDE Plasma does. I care what Kubuntu does.  Hence why I contribute to Kubuntu. At least one group can prove to the Plasma team that sometimes their ideas arent gold
[01:25] <valorie> Kubuntu has often been a "test kitchen" for Plasma and apps
[01:25] <valorie> Neon is the "testing release" sort of, but vanilla
[01:26] <valorie> and our changes have sometimes made it back into Plasma
[01:27] <valorie> sorry to hear that you have a rocky relationships with the Plasma devs
 I always recommend Kubuntu over Neon these days because Plasma has some very awful defaults. Kubuntu has those fixed. :D I hope the Plasma team realizes their mistake and embraces the fixes but considering they argued with me for over 3 weeks about a topic that NO ONE had any valid points that negated the suggestion. I gave up because they didn't care about logic, they cared only about keeping their awful decisions.
 I dont have any negative relationship as a whole. I dont have anything against them individually but the way they handle input is silly because even if what they have is bad, they dont care because it was their decision and at that point it is just a waste of time
[01:29] <valorie> so bad process is what you are saying
[01:29] <valorie> there are certainly some stubborn germans in there
[01:30] <valorie> :-)
 bad process and no one interested in fixing user experience. There was even a case where someone argued against my suggestion with "but traditions" . . .
[01:31] <valorie> Nate is certainly interested in fixing UX
[01:31] <valorie> in all kinds of ways
 going back to the commit that made the dumb change it just said "lets try this" and that was the debate they had with doing it then and now its so painful to change stuff
[01:31] <valorie> including defaults
 Nate and I have discussed many things in this area. Unfortunately, he accepted their terrible logic as also not worth the battle. I understand his viewpoint but I will continue to mock Plasma for their terrible defaults.
[01:32] <valorie> which is why he contributes to Kubuntu for similar reasons to you
 I typically say that I love Plasma for what it offers but the defaults are trash
[01:33] <valorie> I don't like using emotionally-laden language like that because it just locks people into a position
[01:34] <valorie> rather than an problem-solving attitude
 I only do it because they dont want to solve the problem . . . so since its already locked out meh
[01:35] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project cosmic_stable_kdeconnect-kde build #13: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 19 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/cosmic_stable_kdeconnect-kde/13/
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[01:35] <valorie> change is the only constant
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[01:35] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_stable_konversation build #26: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 20 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_stable_konversation/26/
 fair point
[01:36] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project cosmic_stable_calligra build #116: STILL FAILING in 1 min 20 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/cosmic_stable_calligra/116/
[01:37]  * valorie goes off to fold clothes
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 @MichaelTunnell, Krunner
 does that change your opinion on what should or should not be default?
 I think it's fine. It's so quick to hit those two keys next to each other.
 do you think Super+Space is not a good option?
[02:10] <valorie> it's fine
[02:10] <valorie> imo
[02:10] <valorie> just used to alt+space by now
[02:10] <valorie> was used to alt+f4 before
 alt+f3, f4 kills apps
[02:11] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_stable_k3b build #34: STILL UNSTABLE in 36 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_stable_k3b/34/
[02:11] <valorie> whatever it is, doesn't work for krunner anymore it seems
[02:12] <valorie> and I use krunner *all* the time
[02:12] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project cosmic_stable_k3b build #138: STILL UNSTABLE in 37 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/cosmic_stable_k3b/138/
 alt+space = standard function people expect for window context menu. … is this shortcut more important than adhering to a standard? … or better yet, more important than just changing it for your preference rather than forcing people to learn the other arbitrary shortcut for the function they were expecting?
[02:12] <valorie> no, I change with the times
 super+space is used by nothing on basically no system so it is primed for krunner usage. Alt+Space is used on everything else.
 do you know why Alt+Space was chosen in the first place?
[02:13] <valorie> nope
[02:14] <valorie> I don't think back then I was even in #plasma
 someone thought that KDE Plasma . . . you know the DE that has a Windows familiarity on purpose to be nicer to new users . . . should use a freaking keyboard shortcut from MacOS
 @valorie, Alt+Space is very very new
 for Plasma its new I mean
[02:15] <valorie> ok
 maybe 2 years
 MacOS doesnt even have an alt key. The reason was because the location of Alt is the same as the location of Command for Mac. This kind of logic is why KDE hurts
 there is no negative for it being Super+Space as the default. People who like the alt+space because they are used to it, they can just change it back. … Alt+Space would be put to that context menu will be abl
[02:23] <Eickmeyer> ^Deleted in TG, ignore
 Just trying to help. :)
 it was prematurely posted so I deleted, rewriting
 Figured.
 Super+Space being KRunner = no negative conflict. … Alt+Space being KRunner = is a negative conflict. … Those who want Alt+Space can just change it back to Alt+Space. … Making Alt+Space the default for the context menu makes it transitionable for new users who expect it to be there. … There is basically no negative to making this change other than people who are already used to it. However, if things aren't change
[02:36] <valorie> hey claydoh, ltns
[02:36] <valorie> oops
[02:50] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_stable_kwin build #43: STILL UNSTABLE in 38 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_stable_kwin/43/
 plasma-workspace-wayland/disco 4:5.15.4-0ubuntu1 i386 <— not avaible for 64?
[03:46] <valorie> that's weird
[03:46] <valorie> we don't do i386 anymore
 I forgot to highlight before since I’m not often using wayland but put it as option menu list at gdm3 @ sddm
[03:59] <valorie> I should try wayland on my travel lappy
[04:00] <valorie> since it has no nvidia
[04:00] <valorie> I think this one will be awhile getting to wayland
[04:00] <valorie> b/c nvidia
 👍🏻
 wayland works on NVIDIA to a degree.
 Ian at work is using it.
[04:54] <valorie> interesting
 I recently got amd gpu so I should do some Wayland testing
[04:56] <ahoneybun> I often use Wayland with GNOME on my Galago Pro.
[08:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » linode-01 build #2885: SUCCESS in 1 min 8 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=linode-01/2885/
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[12:44] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
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[16:55] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[16:55] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_stable_cantor build #39: FIXED in 19 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_stable_cantor/39/
[16:56] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[16:56] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_stable_kalgebra build #37: FIXED in 19 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_stable_kalgebra/37/
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[23:15] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_sink build #11: FAILURE in 17 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_sink/11/
[23:33] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[23:33] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_breeze build #39: FIXED in 24 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_breeze/39/
[23:33] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_kfilemetadata build #40: STILL UNSTABLE in 34 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_kfilemetadata/40/
[23:34] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_libkeduvocdocument build #38: STILL FAILING in 36 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_libkeduvocdocument/38/
[23:35] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[23:35] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_purpose build #46: FIXED in 37 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_purpose/46/
[23:38] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_baloo build #42: FAILURE in 5 min 12 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_baloo/42/
[23:53] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_kcontacts build #34: STILL FAILING in 38 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_kcontacts/34/
[23:53] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_kalzium build #27: STILL UNSTABLE in 20 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_kalzium/27/
[23:53] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_kcalcore build #28: FAILURE in 38 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_kcalcore/28/
[23:53] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_akonadi build #47: STILL FAILING in 45 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_akonadi/47/
[23:54] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_kio-extras build #42: STILL UNSTABLE in 21 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_kio-extras/42/
[23:57] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project disco_unstable_kcalutils build #42: FAILURE in 4 min 9 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/disco_unstable_kcalutils/42/