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 That's crazy.
 I hope my banner is picked though lol.
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 valorie: that just got fixed a few days ago, in fact
 I think Rik was considering backporting it to Bionic
 BTW why did you switch to Desktop, out of curiosity? I've always wondered what the use case for it is
[03:02] <valorie> @nggraham I like a slow slideshow of astronomy photos from the space telescope
[03:02] <valorie> a new slide per hour or so
[03:03] <valorie> I see no reason to have folders on the desktop
[03:03] <valorie> I have dolphin pinned
 you can do that with Folder View too and there's no visual difference if you remove all the folders
[03:03] <valorie> and I use krunner all the time
[03:03] <valorie> so why do we have both available?
 Because we're KDE, and removing old stuff is hard :)
[03:04] <valorie> I love having lots of options, but if there is no difference....
[03:04] <valorie> simplify, simplify
 BTW before Qt 5.9.5, using an image slideshow anywhere will eventually eat up all your RAM
 See https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/+source/qtdeclarative-opensource-src/+bug/1761016
[03:05] <valorie> it hasn't been working quite right for awhile
[03:05] <valorie> for instance, it didn't fully remember my options on restart
[03:05] <valorie> which is odd
[03:06] <valorie> until I said 'configure desktop' and then say OK
[03:06] <valorie> I need to check on a clean install and see if that's still true before filing a BR
[03:54] <mamarley> Can someone please ban keith20ak?  He/she/it is sending PM SPAM.
[03:57] <valorie> mamarley: I was just gonna say the right place to ask that is to freenode admins
[03:58] <valorie> ops here can't really ban someone who isn't acting up in the chan
[03:59] <mamarley> I think it was a bot and was harvesting nicks from this channel, since I got the message right after I joined.
[04:16] <valorie> all the more reason to message the freenode staff
[04:16] <valorie> nasty bots
[07:31] <Tm_T> sooo I started 16.04 -> 18.04 upgrade
[08:45] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » linode-01 build #2171: SUCCESS in 53 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=linode-01/2171/
[08:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » master build #2171: SUCCESS in 1 min 20 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=master/2171/
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 Good morning everyone
 Today, if I don't have unexpected issues I'm changing the cooling system of area51
[09:58] <Tm_T> so, uh, I don't have "global shortcud daemon" anymore (:
[09:58] <Tm_T> shortcut even
[10:06] <BluesKaj> Hi Folks
 @BluesKaj, Rik, the SDDM updates yesterday did not fix my SDDM blank screen issue.  So hopefully the pending NVidia patch will come to the rescue.
[13:33] <BluesKaj> DarinMiller, which pending Nvidia patch? :-)
[13:35] <BluesKaj> I have a lower end Nvidia geforce GT520 and haven't had any graphics problems...so far (knocks on wood)
 @DarinMiller, Should be landing in -release shortly
 It's for multiple GPUs though, so don't know if that is you
 @BluesKaj, I only notiiced the issue when I attempted to assist someone with a newer NVidia laptop and discovered SDDM displays a blank screen when autologin is disabled and the NVidia driver is enabled: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sddm/+bug/1762885
 what about without autologin?
[13:45] <BluesKaj> or with autologin
 within NVida and autolign, desktop starts up but plasma and krunner displays are skewed.  Restarting both fixes the display issues. With NVidia and autologin disabled, SDDM stops at a black screen.  Entering a passwrod at the blank screen continues the login process (plasma and krunner are stilll messed up).  With Intel driver, everythig works perfectly in with or without autologin.
 @DarinMiller are you able to test anything at the moment?
 Rik, I can test non-nviia related stuff.
 This was Nvidia. maybe later
[15:13] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_docker » linode-01 build #2172: SUCCESS in 46 sec: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_docker/label=linode-01/2172/
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 (Photo, 1024x264) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/hWzE2VKb/file_5722.jpg
 Final that I will make I think.
 Oooooh
 I love it!
 If only that beaver didn't have all of those distracting circles around its head...
 not your fault though, I know
 (Photo, 960x1280) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/1qP9Xdia/file_5723.jpg
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/TL0uTou2/file_5724.jpg
 Done
 all go?
 I'm going to test rebuild fw with autopkgtests depends bumping
 It's so much cooler and silent now (just see the diff between the old cooling and the new one)
 So I have the cpu ready for multiple buildds; I might add more RAM and hard disks in the next months
 becoming a bit of a beast by the sound of it!
 Yep, it could end up having 32gb of ram and 7 hard disks. Right now it has already 12 gb and 5 disks.
 (Photo, 1024x264) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/IQNIn0Wo/file_5726.jpg
 @nggraham
 @acheronuk don't like the shaved beaver ?
 he looks chilly
[19:06] <valorie> ahoneybun: lol
[19:07] <valorie> the distracting lines -- I'm starting to like them
[19:07] <valorie> they give him sort of a da Vinci feel
[20:12] <genii> That was a pretty fast response time on the kubuntu-users list for the redhat guy
[20:13] <acheronuk> whatever it was, I missed it
[20:21] <valorie> on the -users list
 I like the shaved beaver, but it won't be the worst thing in the world if we ship with the hairy beaver
 oh christ, that sounded dirty
 "Beaver" is not the animal I would have chosen for this B cycle...
[20:24] <wxl> i'll have you know that the beaver is a very industrious and respectable animal
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/C8W6WPlC/file_5727.webp
[20:29] <genii> Beavers flood a *lot* of farmland :(
[20:34] <valorie> @nggraham -- just be privately amused
[20:34] <valorie> and try to hold the double entendre to a minimum
[20:34] <valorie> as I am
[20:34] <valorie> lolol
 Perhaps in the C cycle they can choose Cock. A perfectly sensible animal, right!?
[20:35] <valorie> and proud!
[20:36] <valorie> actually they are not sensible at all in real life
 that is true
[20:37] <valorie> they make trouble and lay zero eggs
 they're pretty vicious little things
[20:37] <valorie> however, in soup stock.....
 for that matter, hens are pretty mean too
[20:37] <acheronuk> Canonical Cock?
[20:37] <valorie> they can be yes
[20:37] <valorie> as long as it isn't copulating cock we'll be fine
 😂
[20:38] <wxl> XD
[20:39] <valorie> :-)
 I'm hoping for Calculating Camel
 +1 for Camel
 the logo for it should look distinctly grumpy
 Because... It has humps...  XD
[20:52] <acheronuk> crazy camel
[20:52] <acheronuk> carzy would be good on changelogs
[20:53] <acheronuk> or maybe not, as I just failed to type it!
 Hah
[23:07] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project bionic_unstable_kdegraphics-mobipocket build #110: FAILURE in 25 min: https://kci.pangea.pub/job/bionic_unstable_kdegraphics-mobipocket/110/
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[12:06] <thierry> thanks it worked fine my patch is posted now
[12:15] <Mez> can someone tell me what wer the libglu changes?
[12:15] <Mez> lamont explained ewarlier but I forgot
[12:16] <tseng> so scroll up
[12:17] <Mez> It was a while back and I've rebooted a few times
[12:17] <Mez> pulling up logs and scanning is a pain in the ass
[12:17] <tseng> 08:15 < lamont> I'd probably just use libglu-dev-xorg. :-)
[12:17] <tseng> like this?
[12:20] <Mez> yeah
[02:07] <tiglionabbit> hey guys, I have a user interface improvement to propose
[02:08] <tiglionabbit> in synaptic, remove that checkbox that determines whether disabled repositories are shown or not, and make it always true.  It just makes things more confusing for people
[04:50] <daniels> lamont: !!
[05:29] <davyd> daniels: where is xorg -35 ?
[05:32] <daniels> davyd: it's with the beer you bought me
[05:32] <daniels> hey, wait, you haven't bought me any beer ...
[05:33] <davyd> heh, you haven't made it work yet ;)
[05:36] <schweeb> feel free to send some beer my way too :)
[06:03] <rob^> does anyone know what the release after breezy will be called?
[06:05] <schweeb> don't think that's really decided upon until closer to the release of breezy
[06:05] <schweeb> there is going to be grumpy, which is going to be a highly unstable branch, I believe
[06:06] <tiglionabbit> Grumpy what?  Giraffe?
[06:06] <rob^> ah ok. thanks.
[06:06] <schweeb> groundhog
[06:06] <tiglionabbit> hehe
[06:09] <wasabi> So... when upgrading from one package version to another, how does dpkg handle it? Does it extract the new one on top of the old, or clean the old files out of the way first?
[08:29] <infinity> wasabi : policy has a description of how unpack works, but essentially, the new package is unpacked, then any old files that exist in A but not B are removed.  This leads to some rather interesting effects, if you're tying to do crazy things.
[08:30] <Saba_Z> whois Saba
[10:22] <dholbach> hi
[10:23] <Treenaks> hi dholbach
[10:26] <dholbach> does anybody know why wxwidgets2.5 packages show up on http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/w/wxwidgets2.5/ but are not accessible via apt?
[10:28] <Treenaks> dholbach: when were they compiled?
[10:29] <dholbach> argl: 29-Mar-2005 - that's hoary
[10:29] <jsgotangco> dholbach!
[10:30] <dholbach> hey jerome!
[10:31] <jsgotangco> what are you doing this fine sunday morning on irc?
[10:31] <dholbach> i was asking if somebody knew the state of wxwidgets
[10:31] <dholbach> but i need to get back to some thesis hacking :)
[10:31] <dholbach> (and dog walking)
[10:31] <dholbach> how are you?
[10:31] <jsgotangco> ahh
[10:32] <jsgotangco> oh i finally got my laptop back and just finished rebuilding my system
[10:32] <dholbach> you have it all working?
[10:32] <jsgotangco> oh yeah good thing i made a backup last friday
[10:33] <jsgotangco> other than that, i'm with daughter watching this crazy kiddie vcd we bought yesterday
[10:33] <dholbach> hehe
[10:33] <dholbach> sounds like you're having fun
[10:34] <jsgotangco> its claymation
[10:34] <jsgotangco> and it also has a Penguin for a character
[10:34] <dholbach> *snigger* :)
[10:35] <jsgotangco> its called "Pingu"
[10:35] <jsgotangco> i even used it as my hostname heh
[10:35] <dholbach> :)
[10:37] <dholbach> *dog walking*
[10:39] <jsgotangco> i'll brb as well
[10:42] <tiglionabbit> I'm having a really weird problem with Totem
[10:57] <siretart> does anyone know what could be the problem why NMU's in Debian are not autosync'd?
[10:57] <tseng> nothing is being autosynced at this poing
[10:57] <tseng> point
[10:57] <siretart> tseng: the NMU was pre sarge, but has not shown up in breezy
[10:58] <tseng> is there an ubuntu version?
[10:58] <tseng> XubuntuY
[10:59] <siretart> no, there isnt
[10:59] <siretart> it's "wmaker"
[10:59] <siretart> breezy has 0.91.0-7, debian sarge has 0.91.0-7.2
[11:00] <daniels> tseng: hm, I thought mom was active
[11:00] <tseng> beats me
[11:00] <tseng> daniels: uvh was days ago, id imagine not
[11:00] <siretart> according to http://changelog.debian.net/wmaker, I think we should import the debian version
[11:00] <tseng> siretart: you need elmo, then
[11:00] <siretart> ok
[11:00] <tseng> and possibly freeze approval
[11:01] <daniels> tseng: er, good point.  but it would've been active before then ...
[11:01] <tseng> (thumbs up from mdz)
[11:01] <daniels> well, mdz or kamion
[11:03] <siretart> btw for bugfixing/merging, #12329 is about merges in package diveintopython, I had a look at it, no real changes necessary, package at http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=97, if anyone cares to upload... ;)
[11:03] <siretart> and, ah, diveintopython is main
[11:03] <tiglionabbit> hey guys.  I have a very bizarre problem with totem, and I was wondering if any of you could help me sort it out
[11:04] <tiglionabbit> or at least help me understand why this happens
[11:07] <tiglionabbit> When I run totem, the video appears very bright and low quality.  Then, any media player I launch after that (gxine, xine-ui, mplayer, vlc) gets the same problem, until I kill my X session and log in again.  Firefox+mozilla-mplayer is not affected by this problem
[11:22] <sivang> hey all
[11:22] <siretart> hi sivang
[11:22] <sivang> hey siretart , I eventually succeded setting up my pbuilder
[11:23] <siretart> sivang: cool! :)
[11:23] <sivang> siretart: now to roll on with the xorg transaction, should I just attemp to install apps and see if they breaks to the lib change?
[11:24] <siretart> sivang: I think this would be best.. ye
[11:24] <siretart> s
[11:24] <sivang> siretart: but a stupid question :-) how do I know which packages supposed to fail?
[11:27] <siretart> sivang: I not sure, either. I would try with dctrl-grep searching for packages build depending on the old mesa packages and then checking lamont's buildlogs
[11:27] <tiglionabbit> can anyone figure out or explain to me what could be happening with totem?  Sorry to bother the devs with this..
[11:27] <siretart> sivang: but lets move to #ubuntu-motu
[11:31] <sivang> siretart: sure :-)
[11:44] <dholbach> siretart: you won't need freeze approval for a universe package
[11:45] <dholbach> hey tseng, daniels, sivang, siretart :)
[11:45] <siretart> huhu dholbach
[11:45] <siretart> dholbach: perhaps you can help us out, do you know what should the build dependencies look like for opengl applications?
[11:46] <dholbach> siretart: what's the build error message?
[11:47] <siretart> dholbach: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/b/bzflag/<IP_ADDRESS>50318ubuntu1/
[11:47] <siretart> as an example
[11:47] <siretart> it builds with build depending on libglu-dev-xorg, but this seems to me a bit too strict
[11:48] <siretart> looking at other packages "xlibmesa-gl-dev | libgl-dev, libglu-dev-xorg | libglu-dev" seems to be a safe bet
[11:48] <siretart> hi Mez
[11:49] <Mez> hey siretart
[11:49] <siretart> Mez: I just tried frozen-bubble, it works without any rebuild
[11:49] <Mez> does it /
[11:49] <siretart> for me, in my breezy chroot
[11:49] <Mez> must have just been what would have been a deopwait then
[11:50] <dholbach> xlibmesa-gl-dev and xlibmesa-glu-dev are of different version and source packages - they conflict
[11:51] <dholbach> at least that's what i see on first glance
[11:51] <siretart> there seems to be quite a big confusion about these dependencies
[11:51] <dholbach> siretart: try removing the gl crack, wait for the build error message and add a new build-depends based on that (missing headers or linking error) ;-)
[11:52] <siretart> dholbach: I already uploaded sdlperl with only build depending on libglu-dev-xorg and no alternatives
[11:52] <siretart> hi Kamion
[11:52] <dholbach> Mez: it was libsdl-perl - frozen-bubble didn't need a rebuild
[11:52] <siretart> dholbach: this works, but I'm not sure if thats not too strict
[11:53] <dholbach> i guess it depends on the package
[11:55] <vedran> anyone care to help a packaging newbie :)
[11:55] <dholbach> vedran: #ubuntu-motu is the place you want to be :)
[11:55] <ogra> hey vedran
[11:55] <vedran> ok tnx
[11:56] <dholbach> hey ogra
[11:56] <ogra> hi dholbach
[12:04] <mpt> tiglionabbit: thanks for the synaptic suggestion
[12:04] <mpt> siretart: does frozen-bubble have sound in Breezy?
[12:04] <tiglionabbit> oo yay, thanks for reading that.  I said that ages ago though
[12:04] <mpt> tiglionabbit: I'm slow.
[12:04] <siretart> mpt: for me, yes. I tried it half an hour ago
[12:05] <tiglionabbit> ages meaning 12 hours
[12:05] <mpt> siretart: Awesome, that's the killer reason for me to upgrade
[12:05] <tiglionabbit> anyway, can anyone help me understand why totem is screwing up my video players?
[12:06] <ogra> mpt LOL
[12:06] <tiglionabbit> frozen bubble has sound for me right now
[12:06] <HiddenWolf> mpt, LOL
[12:06] <siretart> mpt: I started it in a chroot, though!
[12:08] <tiglionabbit> would anyone like to hear about it?
[12:09] <dholbach> tiglionabbit: why don't you write it to the mailing list? nobody here seems to have an idea
[12:09] <tiglionabbit> I put something on the forums
[12:10] <tiglionabbit> which mailing list?
[12:10] <thom> anyone know how to make ant use gcj as the compiler?
[12:10] <dholbach> thom: wasabi or doko will know for sure
[12:10] <dholbach> tiglionabbit<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:10] <thom> dholbach: nod; but wrong time for wasabi and i've not seen doko yet today
[12:10] <dholbach> thom: jbailey maybe?
[12:11] <ogra> thom, he's around occasionally...
[12:11] <ogra> (doko)
[12:12] <thom> ogra: he's also at debconf; when i say "haven't seen him", i mean it literally ;-)
[12:12] <dholbach> hehe
[12:12] <Kamion> siretart: morning
[12:12] <dholbach> Kamion: hi Colin
[12:12] <Kamion> hey
[12:13] <siretart> huhu
[12:21] <rubenv> say, euh, are the daily cd images for breezy broken?
[12:21] <rubenv> looks like only powerpc got generated
[12:23] <Kamion> entirely possible, I'll look
[12:23] <Kamion> it happens
[12:24] <ogra> thom, heh
[12:25] <Kamion> huh, it *looks* OK ...
[12:26] <Kamion> oh, I know, I think two CD builds collided
[12:26] <ogra> Kamion, vedran is working for us on the lightweight desktop side, he wants to make it possible to run a minimal ubuntu on pI 133/32MB, any chances for a lighweight installer that makes this possible ?
[12:26] <Kamion> ogra: more details required
[12:26] <ogra> Kamion, up to vedran ;)
[12:26] <Kamion> ogra: may be able to do lowmem tweaks, sure
[12:26] <ogra> Kamion, i just wanted to get you two in connection....
[12:27] <ogra> vedran, ?
[12:27] <Kamion> 32MB isn't considered lowmem by Debian, but 2.4 is a bit lighter on memory consumption
[12:27] <Kamion> I think I tried to get 32MB working on Ubuntu a while back and failed
[12:27] <ogra> yes, but we dont ship 2.4
[12:27] <Kamion> but I didn't spend much time on it
[12:27] <Kamion> ogra: dude, I know that :)
[12:27] <ogra> heh
[12:27] <dholbach> :)
[12:29] <Kamion> rubenv: I've kicked off a new build, thanks for the note
[12:29] <Kamion> the live build before that spent overly long trying to fetch filesystem images
[12:30] <Kamion> I'm shunting it back half an hour in the crontab
[12:30] <rubenv> Kamion: great, thanks :-)
[12:30] <ivoks> ubuntu works on 40MB, but it's not possible to install it
[12:31] <Kamion> vedran: there are probably a few memory leaks in the installer that can be fixed to help with that
[12:31] <vedran> Kamion: ok what do you suggest?
[12:31] <Kamion> I spotted another one in cdebconf recently, I think
[12:31] <vedran> I'm now trying to acquire a 32 MB machine to test
[12:31] <Kamion> boot with mem=32M
[12:31] <Kamion> or something along those lines ...
[12:31] <vedran> ok...
[12:31] <Lathiat> yeh thats right
[12:31] <Lathiat> or use qemu or vmware
[12:32] <Kamion> waste of time for installer testing IMHO, if you have a spare machine
[12:32] <Kamion> if you don't have a spare machine, sure
[12:33] <Kamion> vedran: have a poke about in the lowmem source package
[12:33] <vedran> qemu might help us with memleaks, but i didn't work with it
[12:33] <Kamion> cdebconf can be run on the host system, so you can use valgrind
[12:34] <Lathiat> well, qemu is an easy way to test 32M
[12:34] <Lathiat> is my point
[12:34] <Kamion> there are only a few places in the installer where memory leaks matter, because there are only a few processes that run for long enough
[12:34] <Kamion> Lathiat: I find it too painfully slow to work with; YMMV of course
[12:34] <Lathiat> Kamion: right, i didnt find it overly painful
[12:34] <Lathiat> Kamion: vmware is good
[12:34] <Lathiat> Kamion: also qemu with the accelerator is nice
[12:34] <Kamion> yeah, not really an option when one is on powerpc though ;)
[12:35] <Lathiat> haha
[12:35] <Kamion> I used to use vmware but don't use it any more on principle
[12:35] <Kamion> I have enough real hardware that I don't need to ...
[12:35] <vedran> Kamion: but what about pcs with no cdrom? (like the laptop i own)
[12:35] <Kamion> vedran: netboot
[12:35] <Kamion> or smart boot manager
[12:36] <Kamion> or USB boot
[12:36] <vedran> i was thinking more in line of: gzipped image of partition
[12:36] <Kamion> ?
[12:36] <ogra> initrd ?
[12:36] <vedran> with a first-time wizard
[12:36] <Kamion> that's UbuntuExpress
[12:36] <Kamion> but the live CD will not run on the kinds of hardware you're talking about
[12:37] <Kamion> it's not a memory win
[12:37] <vedran> yeah...
[12:37] <vedran> perhaps its easier to fix the livecd
[12:37] <Kamion> make GNOME run in 32MB? :-)
[12:37] <Kamion> not easy
[12:37] <vedran> ;)
[12:37] <ogra> Kamion, lightweight desktop is the target ;)
[12:37] <Kamion> ogra: please stop telling me things I already know :P
[12:37] <vedran> we put icewm instead of gnome
[12:37] <ogra> heh
[12:38] <vedran> that is the easy part
[12:38] <vedran> the hard part is unbreaking the system once installed ;)
[12:38] <Kamion> unbreaking?
[12:38] <vedran> well
[12:38] <Kamion> oh, undoing live CD customisations you mean?
[12:38] <vedran> yes
[12:38] <Kamion> s'easy, UbuntuExpress does that
[12:38] <Kamion> only a prototype as yet, but ...
[12:38] <ivoks> bye all
[12:39] <Kamion> I do think a traditional installer will be better for low-memory systems
[12:39] <Kamion> it's just fundamentally running less stuff
[12:39] <vedran> could we write a small shell script
[12:40] <vedran> that just unpacks the ubuntuexpress iso image
[12:40] <Kamion> since a live CD needs working space somewhere, it's either got to use memory, or it's got to use swap
[12:40] <vedran> onto hard disk partition?
[12:40] <Kamion> no
[12:40] <Kamion> not maintainably anyway
[12:40] <Lathiat> installing off a livecd is unclean anyway :)
[12:40] <ogra> Lathiat, its the future
[12:40] <Kamion> debootstrap is not the part that takes memory
[12:40] <Kamion> the peak of memory use in the installer is during partitioning
[12:41] <Kamion> (which suggests cdebconf improvements, since that's pretty UI-heavy)
[12:41] <vedran> Kamion: "not maintainably anyway" - why do you think?
[12:41] <Kamion> vedran: well, not in breezy timeframe
[12:41] <vedran> with Knoppix it works :)
[12:41] <vedran> the loopback file is just compressed image of hard disk
[12:41] <Kamion> remember you have to do partitioning too
[12:42] <Kamion> ah, so it works only on one type of computer ...
[12:42] <vedran> nope - you get all the knopix hardware detection and stuff
[12:42] <Kamion> consider powerpc
[12:42] <vedran> basically like running the cd from your hard disk
[12:42] <Kamion> the partition table layout is not even the same between different machines
[12:42] <vedran> the installer should include qtparted
[12:42] <Kamion> !
[12:42] <Kamion> talk about memory use!
[12:43] <vedran> ok then cfdisk :)
[12:43] <Kamion> how about just the traditional installer?
[12:43] <vedran> ok its definitely better
[12:43] <Lathiat> really?
[12:43] <vedran> but we need to hunt memleaks... which is the second most boring thing
[12:44] <Kamion> I quite enjoy that kind of thing
[12:44] <Kamion> just a matter of available time
[12:44] <Lathiat> cant be that big a peak
[12:44] <vedran> also: i once installed linux on a computer with nothing but floppy or serial port
[12:44] <vedran> no cdrom no network
[12:45] <vedran> s/or/and/
[12:45] <Lathiat> need ssh mdoe over slip :)
[12:45] <Lathiat> how do you start up that ssh mode?
[12:45] <vedran> no it was much easier
[12:45] <Kamion> mm, we have a problem at the moment because 2.6 is too fat to let us get enough stuff onto one floppy to know how to get more stuff off the next floppy
[12:45] <vedran> there was a zip file that you unpack in C:/LINUX under windows
[12:46] <vedran> and use loadlin.exe :)
[12:46] <Kamion> being worked on upstream with initramfs
[12:46] <Lathiat> heh
[12:46] <vedran> well obviously not applicable to ubuntu,
[12:46] <vedran> but my proposed shell script would be easily portable to dos
[12:46] <Lathiat> well, it can be
[12:47] <vedran> Kamion: or to 2.4 kernel :)
[12:47] <Kamion> we don't intend to support 2.4
[12:47] <Kamion> we did consider it
[12:47] <vedran> Kamion: no just boostrap installer from 2.4 then switch to 2.6
[12:47] <dholbach> i'm away again... :/
[12:47] <vedran> but i'm having wet dreams now so please stop me ;)
[12:48] <Kamion> that would require supporting 2.4
[12:48] <Kamion> and brings in very complex hardware detection issues
[12:48] <Kamion> because devices have different modules, interface names, etc. in 2.4 vs. 2.6
[12:48] <vedran> you're right...
[12:50] <Kamion> vedran: (also, ubuntu-express is being written in python - to be maintainable, one would have to share code with it, and thus be in the same language)
[12:50] <Lathiat> whats the model ubuntu express works in
[12:51] <Lathiat> does it largely just copy the livecd contents to / ?
[12:51] <Kamion> yes, plus tweaks; see the wiki design doc
[12:51] <Lathiat> like i said, largely
[12:51] <Kamion> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuExpress
[12:51] <Lathiat> are we going to continue to have a normal installer?
[12:51] <Kamion> yes
[12:51] <ogra> yes
[12:51] <Lathiat> good :)
[12:52] <Kamion> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/GraphicalInstaller
[12:52] <ogra> Lathiat, but probably not shipped anymore
[12:52] <ogra> i.e. only as iso download....
[12:52] <Kamion> not shipped in shipit, you mean
[12:52] <ogra> yep
[12:52] <Kamion> I still regard it as "shipped"
[12:52] <vedran> i've read some very convincing articles that all distros should switch to livecd
[12:52] <rubenv> Can I request a resync on trac (universe)? The current breezy version is highly broken, but appears to be fixed in debian.
[12:52] <vedran> as an installer
[12:52] <Kamion> vedran: it's not feasible for big deployments
[12:52] <rubenv> or should I send that to the mailing list?
[12:52] <ogra> rubenv, we have a bug about it
[12:53] <Kamion> those articles are just propaganda I'm afraid
[12:53] <rubenv> ogra: great, i'll check it out
[12:53] <ogra> rubenv, i'm waiting for elmo to finish his moving and show up again to request it...
[12:53] <ogra> rubenv, so just be patient :)
[12:53] <Kamion> I'm very unimpressed with articles that only consider one installation use case
[12:54] <vedran> Kamion: yeah but it's cool to "try before buy" (repartition hard disk)
[12:54] <rubenv> ogra: no problem, I have to deploy it tomorrow, but I could as well go with hoary
[12:54] <Kamion> vedran: that's one case - now try deploying 2000 desktops armed with a bunch of live CDs, and watch the guy who's doing automatic installations over netboot get the job done in a tenth of the time and go down the pub :)
[12:54] <Kamion> both are valuable
[12:54] <Lathiat> hrm, im not sure "Computer Activity Logger" is the best description of syslog
[12:55] <vedran> Kamion: knoppix has netboot with two clicks
[12:55] <ogra> rubenv, you deploy breezy ?
[12:55] <rubenv> ogra: on the development server
[12:55] <ogra> ah, ok
[12:55] <rubenv> no, I'm not completely braindead ;-)
[12:56] <ogra> heh....
[12:56] <Kamion> shipping a live CD's fine, using it by default even is fine, but the traditional installer won't go away
[12:56] <vedran> Kamion: i'm with you on that one... i once tried netboot deployment of knoppix
[12:57] <vedran> Kamion: 20 users lost their work because one cd was scratched :s
[12:57] <Kamion> ah yes, that's where it was, confmodule_communicate() doesn't bother freeing 'in'
[01:01] <Kamion> though I suppose that isn't a huge issue actually, oh well
[01:12] <sivang> has anyone seen jamesh online lately?
[01:13] <sivang> or, responsive for that matter :-)
[01:28] <Treenaks> sivang: he made blog posts
[01:29] <Nafallo> someone at debconf should film Mithrandir's speech :-)
[01:29] <bob2> yes!
[01:29] <dholbach> what is he going to talk about?
[01:29] <ogra> stream it.... where is fluendo nowadays ?
[01:30] <Nafallo> dholbach: multi-arch iirc :-)
[01:31] <dholbach> ah :)
[01:31] <davyd> is Matt Garrett around?
[01:31] <davyd> I want to share complaints about ACPI with him
[01:33] <davyd> good point
[01:35] <ogra> davyd, but if you urgently need to share your experience, just shout at the channel ;)
[01:35] <ogra> ...if that helps :)
[01:36] <Treenaks> davyd: why not shout at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[01:45] <dilinger> anyone know if fabbione's going to be around soon?
[01:59] <\sh> hmmm..is anybody working with vmware on breezy?
[02:00] <davyd> I need to buy a new license first
[02:00] <\sh> i have a trial one first..if it's not running with breezy right now, I will forget it
[02:01] <davyd> there is no reason it shouldn't work
[02:01] <davyd> the application starts for me, I just don't have a license
[02:01] <\sh> actually it is...compiling the modules for 2.6.12-3-i386
[02:02] <\sh> with gcc-3.4 works fine
[02:02] <davyd> yeah, the installer shell is quite useful
[02:02] <davyd> all kernel things have to be built with gcc-3.4
[02:02] <davyd> else they won't link into your running kernel
[02:03] <\sh> yeah...but vmware is not starting, says it's not configured properly
[02:03] <davyd> have you run the vmware-config perl script?
[02:03] <\sh> 5 times now
[02:03] <davyd> ok
[02:03] <davyd> do the modules load?
[02:04] <\sh> actually the drivers are loading and bridging failed
[02:04] <\sh> and I can't sudo anything anymore :(
[02:05] <\sh> and now I have to reboot again damn
[02:05] <\sh> brb
[02:14] <\sh> grmpf
[02:21] <\sh> ok...vmware is not working as expected :(
[02:22] <davyd> no?
[02:22] <Treenaks> \sh: try qemu ;0
[02:22] <Treenaks> ;)
[02:23] <\sh> treenaks: I know qemu is working
[02:24] <\sh> I just removed networking from the vmware-config stuff, and now it's starting
[02:24] <\sh> *wonder*
[02:27] <sivang> \sh: qemu has a new kernel module , so it's even faster now then in the past
[02:27] <\sh> sivang: yeah...but I want to know if vmware is working...so I can order a license for the office
[02:28] <sivang> \sh: I'm using it under hoary, works fine
[02:28] <davyd> sivang: it works nicely on hoary
[02:28] <davyd> err, \sh
[02:28] <sivang> :-)
[02:28] <davyd> \sh, it might be a 2.6.12 thing
[02:28] <davyd> in which case, there might be an update in the works
[02:29] <Lathiat> yeh its a 2.6.12 thing
[02:29] <Lathiat> theres an update somewhere
[02:29] <Lathiat> altho, the stock ones work for me
[02:29] <Lathiat> i just had it do soe weird shit once
[02:29] <Lathiat> rbeooted and worked ok
[02:29] <sivang> Lathiat: I'm acutally having problem with 2.6.12 wrt LVM
[02:30] <sivang> Lathiat: it can't find the lvm devices , for some reason
[02:30] <sivang> Lathiat: any idea?
[02:30] <Lathiat> haha that sucks
[02:30] <Lathiat> nope
[02:30] <sivang> Lathiat: so I revert each time to 2.6.10-5
[02:34] <Treenaks> what should "md5sum -v" do?
[02:34] <Treenaks> I have a package that doesn't build because my md5sum doesn't understand -v
[02:36] <rubenv> be verbose?
[02:41] <eruin> I think my 2.6.12 is having issues with hotplug/ipw2200
[02:41] <Lathiat> works for me
[02:41] <Lathiat> i heard some people had some issues tho
[02:41] <Lathiat> it was being worked on
[02:41] <Lathiat> have you updated recently?
[02:42] <eruin> staying current every day
[02:42] <eruin> my poor laptop just powers down at or rather just after hotplug gets started... havent gotten any further in debugging it
[02:42] <Treenaks> rubenv: yes, well, my md5sum doesn't understand it
[02:42] <Lathiat> ouch that sucks
[02:42] <eruin> yeah
[02:43] <eruin> good thing I had 2.6.10 around :)
[02:43] <Treenaks> "Hey you hotplugged a power button.. you must have pressed it"
[02:44] <eruin> got any info on the update?
[02:44] <Lathiat> nope
[02:47] <eruin> I wonder where the run dialog went to
[02:48] <Lathiat> eruin: alt+f2
[02:51] <eruin> aaaah
[02:51] <eruin> thanks ;)
[03:06] <\sh> ah...found an update
[03:11] <jsgotangco> salut
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[03:37] <\sh> vmware is running ... just found the solution
[03:43] <Lathiat> \sh: which was?
[03:45] <tvo> what's the use of fam in ubuntu? since apt wants to remove kde and gnome and all graphical apps before installing it?
[03:45] <\sh> Lathiat: http://knihovny.cvut.cz/ftp/pub/vmware/ there is vmware-any-any-update92
[03:45] <Lathiat> \sh: ah yes,
[03:45] <Lathiat> \sh: thats what i thought
[03:45] <\sh> Lathiat: this helped for the network driver
[03:46] <davyd> tvo: probably because fam conflicts with gamin
[03:46] <davyd> and gnome-vfs and such depend on gamin
[03:46] <davyd> just a guess
[03:46] <\sh> and strange thing is...windows xp runs faster then a native install
[03:46] <Lathiat> \sh: i found that
[03:47] <Lathiat> \sh: i think its to do with disk caching
[03:47] <tvo> davyd: yeah probably. for breezy, is gamin going to be used again?
[03:49] <\sh> lathiat: I have my virt hd now on an usb2.0 hd...incredible :) and even fullscreen with 1024x768 is working out of the box with the vmware tools
[03:49] <Lathiat> neat
[03:50] <tvo> nm same api
[03:50] <\sh> and now my upstream provider will kill me with the daily iso image download story ,-)
[03:50] <Lathiat> whats that?
[03:51] <bob2> rsync.
[03:51] <\sh> ubuntu daily iso snapshots :) download, try to install, writing bugzilla notes
[04:36] <HiddenWolf> who is in charge of irc / #ubuntu?
[04:38] <Simira> the community council, or something?
[04:41] <HiddenWolf> Simira, :(
[04:44] <Simira> HiddenWolf : which?
[04:44] <HiddenWolf> uboto
[04:45] <Simira> I think it's an official Ubuntu bot, why?
[04:45] <HiddenWolf> Because, quite frankly, I find it disrespectful to newbs to serve their run-of-the-mill awnser with a bot.
[04:46] <HiddenWolf> And I see it as the first step of the attitude that is now gripping #debian, and their RTFM-approach
[04:46] <Simira> hm
[04:47] <HiddenWolf> How much harder is it to write "please google for that" as opposed to "bot, tell $user of sudo"
[04:48] <LinuxJones> Can someone please pop into #ubuntu and deal with dabaR, he's being rude && annoying
[04:48] <HiddenWolf> If you piont them in the direction of a wiki, google, forum, mailing list, whatever, that is fine. But to not even acknowledge the person, and just have the awnser served by a bot, I'd say is distasteful
[04:53] <HiddenWolf> Simira, do I have a piont, or not?
[04:54] <jdub> HiddenWolf: we certainly haven't encouraged bots
[04:54] <jdub> oddly enough, the owner is an aussie
[04:54] <HiddenWolf> jdub, why is that odd? :)
[04:56] <jdub> 'cos i tend to know the aussies who get involved
[04:59] <HiddenWolf> ahuman01, right
[04:59] <HiddenWolf> jdub, ah, right
[04:59] <Lathiat> Bots however, are usefull
[04:59] <Lathiat> because they can provide good responses
[04:59] <HiddenWolf> Yeah, but at a cost.
[04:59] <Lathiat> rather than $random person spewing up something
[04:59] <Lathiat> and lots of people oftne go unanswered
[05:00] <Lathiat> being helped by a unpersonal repsonse by a bot
[05:00] <Lathiat> beats not being helped at all
[05:00] <HiddenWolf> True, but being pionted to a wiki by a person beats a bot any time
[05:00] <Lathiat> sure but that person has to keep a list of wiki links
[05:00] <Lathiat> where that can be kept in a bot database
[05:00] <Lathiat> i actually quite liked the #debian bots
[05:00] <Lathiat> i could even ask it questions myself
[05:01] <HiddenWolf> Lathiat, I have no problem with a newb asking a question of the bot. I have a problem with people serving newbs with botted anwsers, because it is unfriendly
[05:02] <Lathiat> i stopped joining #ubuntu cus three hours later im still there
[05:02] <Lathiat> HiddenWolf: I disagree, because I think its more likely to result in more people getting helped with better answers
[05:02] <Lathiat> you have a collectiction of knowledge, rather than 1 person
[05:03] <Lathiat> if we had enogh people to help everyone
[05:03] <Lathiat> who knew everything
[05:03] <Lathiat> sure, it would be more friendly to help them personally
[05:03] <Lathiat> but like, i dont have time to sit here looking up specific wiki urls all the time
[05:03] <Lathiat> i just remember what i can
[05:04] <HiddenWolf> While we're at it, why don't we have a bot send a /msg to every join in #ubuntu. "Hi, I'm the automated helping system, if your question goes unawnsered, maybe I can be of service"
[05:04] <jdub> 'cos that's even more annoying that a bot in channel :)
[05:06] <HiddenWolf> ofcourse it is
[05:06] <HiddenWolf> well, nm then.
[05:07] <jdub> i tend to think the only polite way of having a bot on the channel is to call it something really obvious
[05:07] <jdub> HelpBot
[05:07] <jdub> :-)
[05:07] <jdub> like
[05:08] <HiddenWolf> yeah, and make sure it's response is civil
[05:08] <Lathiat> yeh, that would help i guess
[05:08] <HiddenWolf> Not $user wants to you to know: $bla
[05:09] <HiddenWolf> if you can't tell, that debian bot always annoyed me.
[05:10] <HiddenWolf> and the day i'll see something like "dpkg /topic /topic /topic /topic /topic /topic *READ IT*READ IT* /topic /topic /topic /topic /topic /topic /topic *a shaaame it's a shaaame that Leon_ didn't read the* /topic /topic /topic /topic..." in #ubuntu, I'll switch distro
[05:11] <Lathiat> Thats nice
[05:12] <HiddenWolf> that's the dpkg bot in #debian, fyi
[05:12] <HiddenWolf> "* dpkg runs jeffro. over with a steamroller and shoves the corpse off the fire escape."
[05:12] <Lathiat> HiddenWolf: yes, you see, thats the dpkg lart command
[05:16] <HiddenWolf> if a bot could be a troll, that'd be it's role-model
[05:23] <ivoks> guys...
[05:23] <ivoks> problems in #ubuntu
[05:23] <HiddenWolf> Someone ban that guy
[05:25] <LinuxJones> argh jackk is a spammer
[05:25] <HiddenWolf> LinuxJones, powerful observation, that
[05:25] <wasabi> morning
[05:25] <LinuxJones> HiddenWolf, thank you for that
[05:29] <HiddenWolf> LinuxJones, my pleasure
[05:32] <eruin> fabbione, can I get info on the upcoming kernel update I keep hearing about?
[05:41] <eruin> scrool needs a ban in #ubuntu
[05:42] <eruin> and fast
[05:42] <eruin> and krall
[05:43] <fabbione> eruin: uh what do you mean?
[05:43] <fabbione> eruin: (about the kernel update)
[05:44] <eruin> someone told me an update is imminent, and I was wondering what exactly is going to get updated (ie if anything related to my complete inablility to boot with it atm)
[05:45] <eruin> I think mine might be related to hotplug or the ipw2200 module, though not at all certain
[06:38] <trulux> bonjour
[06:42] <Panzerboy> bonsoir :)
[07:01] <pitti> Hi folks
[07:02] <trulux> hey pitti
[07:02] <trulux> pitti: howya!!?
[07:02] <pitti> trulux: had a nice long weekend in Prague, wonderful
[07:02] <trulux> pitti: I'm ready for the bounty thing, going to prepare the proposal
[07:03] <trulux> pitti: ah, Prague is a nice place.
[07:03] <trulux> I'm just abck from France
[07:03] <trulux> LSM 2005
[07:03] <pitti> trulux: cool; I'll be at debconf5 the next week, I should be online fairly often
[07:03] <trulux> what a nice event...
[07:03] <trulux> pitti: ah, where's it?
[07:03] <pitti> trulux: Helsinki
[07:04] <trulux> pitti: nice place
[07:04] <trulux> pitti: I didn't meet a lot of people at LSM 2005
[07:04] <trulux> ;(
[08:15] <mxpxpod> ok, for some reason, network-manager thinks my wlan-ng usb card is a wired connection... does anyone know why?
[08:25] <mxpxpod> thom: ping
[08:31] <monk> i think there may be a bug in kino
[08:33] <monk> when i launch it, I get the following errors:
[08:33] <monk> >>> Registering plugin /usr/lib/kino-gtk2/libkinoplus.so
[08:33] <monk> >>> Image Filter: DV Titler 0.1.1
[08:33] <monk> (kino:4260): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_set_qdata_full: assertion `quark > 0' failed
[08:33] <monk> (kino:4260): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_set_qdata_full: assertion `quark > 0' failed
[08:33] <monk> (kino:4260): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_set_qdata_full: assertion `quark > 0' failed
[08:33] <monk> (kino:4260): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_set_qdata_full: assertion `quark > 0' failed
[08:33] <monk> >>> Image Filter: Color Hold
[08:33] <monk> >>> Image Filter: Blur
[08:34] <monk> i think the problem is with either the kino-dvdtitler package or the kinoplus package...
[08:34] <monk> probably the former
[09:47] <siretart> infinity: ping
[11:52] <wasabi> This totem browser plugin is pissing me off
[11:53] <wasabi> Last thing I want when I click on an AVI link is for it to open in a new browser window full screen and play. I want it to open totem. =/


 Gentle ping on this. (re @tsimonq2: Ack, will do. Thanks!)
 Ah, yes, thanks (re @mitya57: Gentle ping on this.)
 (You're okay to nag me more frequently these days if I forget something, $dayjob is now open source stuff so I'll be around more, just not as organized as I'd like to be yet...)
 > $dayjob is now open source stuff
 You are lucky!
 Incredibly blessed :)
 Anyway, yes, I can try to remember to look this weekend
 Thank you!
 Of course :)
 Oh, now it FTBFS even with these changes 🥲
 CMake Error at /usr/share/cmake-3.24/Modules/FindPackageHandleStandardArgs.cmake:230 (message):
   Could NOT find GLIB (missing: GLIB_GIO_UNIX_INCLUDE_DIR) (found suitable
   version "2.73.3", minimum required is "2.50.0")
 Call Stack (most recent call first):
   /usr/share/cmake-3.24/Modules/FindPackageHandleStandardArgs.cmake:594 (_FPHSA_FAILURE_MESSAGE)
   /usr/share/cmake/lxqt-build-tools/find-modules/FindGLIB.cmake:113 (FIND_PACKAGE_HANDLE_STANDARD_ARGS)
   CMakeLists.txt:39 (find_package)
 It's because gunixfdlist.h moved from gio-unix to gio, so we need to update lxqt-build-tools again. I will make a PR for it both upstream and in Debian.
 Sounds good, thank you!
 Oh, it's already fixed in Debian, so I should just sync.


[01:43] <thumper> jml: CannotUploadToPocket doesn't inherit from exception
[01:43] <jml> thumper, am I raising it?
[01:44] <jml> thumper, ahh, I'll fix the docstring
[01:44] <thumper> ta
[01:44] <jml> thumper, this code doesn't use exceptions -- I lost an argument.
[01:44]  * thumper frowns
[01:44] <thumper> with who?
[01:45] <jml> thumper, the reviewer of my previous patch in this area :)
[01:46] <thumper> # XXX: Tests
[01:49] <jml> yes
[01:50] <thumper> either fix the XXX style, or remove it
[01:50] <thumper> also julians XXX date is off by 2 years
[01:50] <jml> I could add "icle" to the line :)
[01:51] <jml> thumper, it's not off, it's moved from old code.
[01:51] <thumper> :(
[01:52] <jml> I've deleted the XXX: Tests.
[01:53] <thumper> is there a nicer way to do this? getUtility(IComponentSet)['partner']
[01:53] <jml> thumper, how do you mean "nicer"?
[01:53] <thumper> __get_item__ on a utility class seems icky
[01:54] <thumper> unclean almost
[01:54] <jml> I'm fairly sure it's the only way right now.
[01:54] <jml> I think they want to make it an enum.
[01:56] <jml> yeah, it's the only method with those semantics.
[01:56] <thumper> omg - makeSourcePackagePublishingHistory
[01:57] <jml> yeah, neat huh?
[01:58] <thumper> jml: so where does can_upload_to_archive get used for branches?
[01:59] <jml> thumper, canonical.launchpad.security.EditBranch calls it, via can_upload_linked_package(person, branch)
[02:01] <thumper> InvalidPocketForPartnerArchive docstring needs fixing
[02:02] <stub> If anyone wants staging database updates back, they can help by reviewing https://code.launchpad.net/~stub/launchpad/replication/+merge/14738
[02:02] <stub> Most of it is a SQL dump of bits of production and can be ignored.
[02:03] <stub> The rest is trivial
[02:04] <thumper> stub: done
[02:06] <jml> thumper, thanks.
[02:06] <thumper> jml: done the InvalidPocketForPartnerArchive change?
[02:06] <thumper> jml: if so r=me
[02:07] <thumper> jml: and I'll update the mp
[02:07] <jml> thumper, fixed.
[02:46] <stub> Huh. https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~stub/launchpad/replication/+merge/14738 has approved code reviews but ec2 land doesn't agree
[02:47] <mwhudson> stub: it checks the merge proposal status
[02:47] <mwhudson> stub: is it still "needs review" ?
[02:50] <stub> nup
[02:58] <thumper> I've had that before too
[02:58] <thumper> local object cache?
[02:58] <mwhudson> replication lag?
[02:59] <mwhudson> (no)
[02:59] <stub> Only a few seconds lag - normal.
[03:00] <stub> Where does my cache live?
[03:00]  * stub finds and nukes his cache
[03:02] <stub> Now it just fails :-P
[03:02] <stub> AttributeError: 'Launchpad' object has no attribute 'credentials'
[03:07] <mwhudson> i think that's code for "the wrong version of launchpadlib"
[03:21] <stub> Still telling me its unapproved ;-P
[03:23] <thumper> stub: land manually like the old days :)
[03:25]  * thumper queues up a couple waiting hopefully
[04:45] <thumper> jml: as you were an original author, would you care to look at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~thumper/launchpad/lp-distroseries/+merge/14777 ?
[04:46] <jml> thumper, sure.
[04:49] <thumper> jml: thanks
[04:49] <thumper> jml: I'm away making dinner though
[04:50] <thumper> jml: I'll be back later
[04:50] <jml> thumper, ok. I'll do the review on the web.
[04:53] <jml> actually, blocked now because of structured time
[12:31] <adeuring> Moin al-maisan_, could you please review this mp: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~adeuring/launchpad/bug-479331/+merge/14783 ?
[12:40] <al-maisan_> adeuring: I am very sorry, but I won't be able to review today as announced in the email I sent yesterday.
[12:40] <adeuring> al-maisan_: np, missed that mail
[12:40] <al-maisan_> adeuring: thanks for your understanding!
[17:11] <leonardr> anyone want to review a lazr.restful branch?
[17:11] <leonardr> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~leonardr/lazr.restful/latest-version/+merge/14791
[17:18] <leonardr> flacoste, maybe you want to review my branch, see if the versioning project is getting off to a good start?
[17:18] <leonardr> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~leonardr/lazr.restful/latest-version/+merge/14791
[17:19] <flacoste> leonardr: i'm not really available to review that until next Monday
[17:19] <leonardr> ok, np, just looking for someone to look at it
[17:19] <flacoste> leonardr: i can do a post-merge review though if you find another reviewer
[18:58] <jtv> barry: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jtv/lazr-js/bug-480986/+merge/14801
[20:17]  * thumper looks for reviewers
[20:41] <jtv> barry: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jtv/lazr-js/bug-480986
[20:41] <jtv> oops, that's the bug.
[20:41] <jtv> hang on, digging up mp
[20:41] <jtv> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jtv/lazr-js/bug-480986/+merge/14801
[20:47] <thumper> jtv: hi
[20:47] <jtv> hey thumper
[20:47] <thumper> jtv: are you at the lazr-js thing too
[20:48]  * jtv looks around
[20:48]  * thumper is alone with no reviewers
[20:48] <jtv> yup, that's what it looks like
[20:48]  * jtv looks sympatethetic
[20:48] <jtv> okay, I mis-typed that.  What do you need?
[20:49] <thumper> jtv: three reviews :)
[20:50] <jtv> thumper: I may meet you somewhere in the middle :)
[20:50] <thumper> jtv: how about just the oops bug fix then
[20:50] <thumper> jtv: it is easy
[20:50] <jtv> gimme
[20:50] <thumper> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~thumper/launchpad/branch-email-subject-oops/+merge/14780
[20:50] <thumper> jtv: and short
[20:50] <jtv> ok
[20:51] <jtv> it also happens to be yours
[20:52] <jtv> I thought you were asking help reviewing stuff :)
[20:52] <thumper> heh
[20:52] <thumper> no, I need reviews
[20:55] <jtv> thumper: on the _getSubject in branch.py, what you put in the docstring really belongs in a comment.
[20:56] <thumper> ok
[20:56] <thumper> jtv: how about the comment part of the docstring?
[20:56] <jtv> (And that comment would just rephrase the code, so I'd replace it with a reference to how things go differently in the other implementation)
[20:58] <jtv> thumper: yes, that'd probably do it...  but where are the invocations?  And is this method in a common base class or something?
[20:59] <thumper> yes
[20:59] <thumper> and I found the BranchMailer is a base class for BMPMailer
[20:59] <thumper> which I had to reinstate base class behaviour in
[21:00] <jtv> Then the appropriate first line for the docstring might be a "See `BaseClass`."
[21:01] <thumper> sure
[21:04] <jtv> o-kayyy.... I don't see any invocations of _getSubject in trunk either.  Is it outside the Code tree or something?
[21:05] <jtv> ah, things are falling into place now.
[21:08] <jtv> thumper: I don't think this is the right solution.
[21:09] <thumper> jtv: why
[21:09] <thumper> jtv: test proves it :)
[21:09] <thumper> jtv: lp.services.mail.basemailer
[21:09] <jtv> Painful as it is, the "subject" argument for BaseMailer is specified as a string for interpolation, not a raw subject line.
[21:10] <jtv> So if you want a "non-%-safe" string in there, seems to me the proper way of doing it is to insert that string using interpolation into the subject template.
[21:11] <thumper> jtv: actually I think you may be right :)
[21:11]  * thumper tweaks
[21:11] <jtv> well, you asked for a review, not a rubber stamp.  :-P
[21:12] <jtv> The moral of this story is "pre-imp calls are hard to come by when everyone else but your cat is on sprint."
[21:19] <rockstar> thumper, what jtv is pointing out as an issue plagues us in other places of the mailer as well.
[21:20] <rockstar> At least, I have my suspicions.
[21:36] <jtv1> rockstar: sprints?
[21:38] <rockstar> jtv, no, the string interpolation issue.
[21:39] <jtv> ohhhh, _that_
[21:43] <thumper> jtv: diff updaetd
[21:43]  * jtv looks anew
[21:48] <jtv> thumper: looks good, thanks for sticking with me
[21:49] <thumper> jtv: thanks for taking the time to review
[21:49] <jtv> I already fixed a JS bug for today, and was working on one I didn't particularly like.  :)
[21:51] <jtv> thumper: I gave it a review type of "code," so you can "ec2 land" this one
[21:52] <thumper> w00t
[21:52] <thumper> have sip working
[21:52] <thumper> jtv: thanks
[22:11] <jtv> thumper: just having a quick look at your diffoverlay branch...  your windmill test has an old-style copyright notice at the top, without the "affero" part.
[22:11] <thumper> jtv: ah
[22:12] <jtv> Sorry, not the windmill test (some distractions here), the js source
[22:12] <thumper> jtv: was copied from somewhere else
[22:12] <jtv> evidently :)
[22:12] <thumper> :)
[22:12] <thumper> will fix
[22:15] <jtv> thumper: also in the JS file, the spinner diff probably doesn't need any text besides the spinner.  The "loading..." might make more sense as an alt text for the spinner image.
[22:15] <thumper> jtv: ok
[22:17] <jtv> There's a comment "barr" in there... probably to say "ouch, I'll just have to pray for inspiration for handling this case."
[22:17] <jtv> (There's some work going on here for unifying lazr-js error handling a bit more, I believe)
[22:18] <jtv> You'll want to display the error text somewhere, and probably splash a bit of red across the page.
[22:18]  * jtv goes for coffee
[22:18] <jtv> (not far)
[22:22] <jtv> thumper: in line 64 of that diff, I think "make lint" will complain about a missing semicolon.
[22:22] <jtv> Or maybe line 63, which is where a human (as opposed to "make lint") would expect it.
[22:23] <jtv> Near the top of that file some blank lines would be nice too
[22:25] <thumper> jtv: trailing commas are not good in js object defs are they?
[22:25] <jtv> thumper: no, they're not, and IE will seize each and any instance of them as an excuse to stop working for you
[22:26] <jtv> "make lint" should catch them though
[22:26]  * thumper makes lint
[22:29] <jtv> thumper: a few notes about get_mp_class...
[22:29] <jtv> I think this is perfectly valid use of classes, but of course it's not particularly well-supported by YUI.
[22:29]  * thumper pushed lint cleanup
[22:30]  * thumper reminds himself about that method
[22:30] <jtv> It'd be useful to have a small comment above get_mp_class explaining what it does & why
[22:30] <thumper> ah
[22:30] <thumper> yes
[22:30] <jtv> Also, constructing regexes is apparently costly, so please hoist that out of the loop.
[22:31] <jtv> With a comment for the function, the comment for its final line can go afaic
[22:32] <jtv> thumper: just checked: 2 blank lines between top-level functions, same as we do in python.
[22:34] <thumper> ok
[22:34] <rockstar> thumper, so I'm looking at popupdiff, and just FYI, I'm about to put together a branch that organizes our YUI/lazr-js namespaces, because they are a super crazy.
[22:34] <thumper> rockstar: what is the personal impact of that with me?
[22:35]  * jtv bows out so rockstar and thumper can work on this one
[22:35] <thumper> jtv: thanks for the input
[22:36] <jtv> mp np
[22:36] <rockstar> thumper, it's just FYI right now, unless you take forever to land this branch, and then you're going to screw me and, I will go crazy.
[22:36] <thumper> heh
[22:36] <thumper> rockstar: btw, i have sip working with twinkle and did a conf call with kfogel and mrjazzcat and it was clear with no delay
[22:37] <rockstar> Er, screw me UP.  I need to remember to add that.
[22:37] <rockstar> thumper, great.  I'll see if I can get it configured tonight.
[22:37] <thumper> rockstar: the instructions are on the wiki
[22:38] <rockstar> thumper, you don't need a DiffOverlay.bindUI function.
[22:39] <rockstar> thumper, and you never need to make sure to call the superclass bindUI, because it's already called.
[22:39] <thumper> rockstar: I followed the instructions on the PrettyOverlay page
[22:39] <rockstar> So lines 20-25 can be deleted.
[22:39] <thumper> rockstar: it said I had to
[22:40] <rockstar> thumper, yes, they are out of date.
[22:40]  * thumper sighs
[22:40] <rockstar> thumper, the "out of date" is a known issue that we are currently fixing.
[22:40]  * thumper removes them
[22:40]  * thumper confirms it still works
[22:41] <rockstar> thumper, we should also probably remove the calls to Y.log.
[22:42] <rockstar> What's the comment on line 58?  A placeholder, or an incomplete comment.
[22:42]  * thumper frowns
[22:42] <thumper> rockstar: it does need the bindUI
[22:42] <thumper> rockstar: if I take it out it fails to work
[22:43] <thumper> rockstar: probably a placeholder originally
[22:44]  * thumper removed all the Y.log links
[22:47] <rockstar> thumper, I almost think you should wait on landing this until after yui 3.0 lands.
[22:47] <thumper> rockstar: diff has updated
[22:48] <thumper> rockstar: why?
[22:48] <thumper> rockstar: and when will that be?
[22:48] <rockstar> thumper, today if flacoste doesn't get distracted...
[22:48] <thumper> rockstar: well, then it'll have to be after yui 3
[22:48] <thumper> flacoste: don't get distracted
[22:48] <thumper> flacoste: I'd love our code to match the online docs :)
[22:49] <rockstar> thumper, in his defense, it's a 4,000 line diff.
[22:49] <thumper> rockstar: you should have been around in the early days
[22:49] <thumper> rockstar: that wasn't too unusual
[22:49] <rockstar> thumper, did you walk to school in the snow uphill both ways?
[22:49] <rockstar> :)
[22:49] <thumper> rockstar: barefoot over broken glass
[22:50] <rockstar> thumper, I don't think the diff overlay should be created at all if the diff can't be loaded.
[22:50] <thumper> rockstar: we don't know we can't load it until after we have given them some feedback that the click is doing something
[22:50] <rockstar> A popup that says "The diff can't be loaded" is probably not an ideal story.
[22:50] <thumper> we need to give some immediate feedback to the user
[22:51] <thumper> rockstar: you are right
[22:51] <thumper> it isn't ideal
[22:51] <rockstar> Well, yes, we always need to provide feedback.  A spinner is probably better.
[22:51] <thumper> I'm waiting on good error handling from you guys
[22:52] <rockstar> I just talked to Bjorn, and we were thinking you should add "spec=lazr-error-handling" in a comment around it, but then I saw how the error handling works, and it'd probably be better to use a spinner.
[22:53] <rockstar> thumper, ^^
[22:53] <thumper> rockstar: what do you mean?
[22:53] <thumper> rockstar: it has a spinner
[22:54] <thumper> rockstar: I'll add the comment though
[22:54] <deryck> rockstar, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~deryck/lazr-js/multiline-fixed-width-412574/+merge/14808
[22:54] <deryck> rockstar, and thanks :)
[22:55] <rockstar> thumper, so, the story should be "click the diff link, get a spinner next to where you clicked (or replacing the icon), get the diff, make an overlay and populate it with the diff, show the diff"
[22:55] <thumper> rockstar: ok, there is no icon to replace
[22:56] <thumper> rockstar: and how do you show failure?
[22:56] <thumper> rockstar: perhaps when we have a good error handling story I'll agree with you
[22:58] <rockstar> thumper, yes, in this case, there is no icon to replace, but you can put a spinner in there, and then, if there's an error, you can redirect to where the diff is without javascript.
[22:58] <rockstar> Then you have a graceful degradation story as well.
[22:58] <thumper> hmm..
[22:59]  * thumper thinks for a while
[22:59] <rockstar> Our error handling story is atrocious, this we can agree on.  However, we shouldn't be making it any worse.
[23:02] <thumper> rockstar: I'll look at changing this after lunch
[23:04] <rockstar> thumper, okay.
[23:49] <thumper> rockstar: changed
[23:49] <thumper> rockstar: pushed, and waiting for the diff to change
[23:52] <jtv> thumper: we're talking to Virtual Maris
[23:52] <rockstar> thumper, okay.  I'm not sure if I'll be able to get to it today.