[00:32] <qih> Everytime I log out or reboot my Kubuntu 19.10, I have to re-enable my Radeon 3000 HDMI card, using 'pavucontrol-qt'. Is there a way to make this permanent?
[00:35] <qih> Too me sometime to establish this was the issue also. All the testing and checking of configs seemed to indicate there was a viable audio entity onboard.
[00:35] <qih> s/Too/Took
[04:44] <SkweezyJibbz> Hi all. I'm using Kubuntu 18.04.3 in a VM whose purpose it is to edit files on an eMMC card because Win10 cannot recognize the ext4 filesystem. I'm trying to move a folder into a new directory, but when I use 'ls' to confirm the files have been moved, nothing appears. Any idea what's happening here?
[04:48] <SkweezyJibbz> OK upon closer inspection, it looks like when I'm dragging the folder from host to guest, only the top-level directory gets transferred. no sub-folders nor files get moved. is this a kubuntu issue or vm issue
[05:15] <Alabalistic> hi
[05:16] <Alabalistic> SkweezyJibbz, looks like permission problem, you you dont have a read permission on the directory in wich your files are
[05:16] <Alabalistic> then you can't ls it
[05:16] <Alabalistic> you can use chown to change the ownership
[05:18] <Alabalistic> or grant chmod -R 666 to grant read write access for everyone
[05:18] <Alabalistic> you need to sudo it
[05:31] <SkweezyJibbz> Alabalistic: is that fundamentally different than chmod a+rwx?
[06:44] <valorie> !chown
[06:44] <valorie> !chmod
[06:44] <valorie> hmmm
[06:47] <maestromony> chmod - change file/directory permissions mode, chown - change file/directory owner
[06:49] <valorie> my hmmmm was that ubottu didn't respond
[06:49] <valorie> any, info for SkweezyJibbz
[10:31] <Katnip> has anyone had updates in the last week and a half? ive had none
[10:42] <RikMills> Katnip: most canonical staff have been on leave over the holidays. including most of the people who normally process update queues
[10:43] <RikMills> most are due back Monday In think
[10:56] <Katnip> so, i suppose next week we'll get barraged with updates then
[10:58] <Katnip> i was just curious about it, another distro i use in a vm has had daily updates throughout the holidays
[10:58] <Katnip> no problems
[15:28] <IrcsomeBot1> BJPGameVideosITA was added by: BJPGameVideosITA
 Hello everyone 😀
 Is this a right place to ask for help and suggestions from community to Kubuntu-related issues and stuff?
 Or I would be better off going to the official forums or another website?
[15:35] <BluesKaj> BJPGameVideosITA, depends on your issue, so tell us what it is and we'll try to help
 I have a weird audio issue related to the front panel jack (I think) and the only resource I found was an alsa-driver bug from 2012 (#1067434) but from which the video doesn't showcase very well the issue, so I recorded a new video of my settings to illustrate the issue itself. … Would it be okay if I post the video here? will it reach and be playable on IRC (I never used IRC so IDK, sorry)... … (also, sorry for my bad
[15:39] <IrcsomeBot1> english if I made any mistake, I'm actually still learning it, being it my second language)
[15:44] <BluesKaj> BJPGameVideosITA, it would be best if you explained what is or is not happening with your audio issue.
 Summarized, "the active "interface" randomly and briefly switches itself to the front panel "Headphones" when nothing is connected, when instead remains stuck on "Headphones" when the headphones are actually connected in the jack".
[16:01] <BluesKaj> hmm, usually the opposite is true ...it's usually difficult to get the headphone jack to activate. Unfortunately I don't have an answer for your issue.
 Don't worry, maybe in the future someone else will do... … Tho it's a bit strange that the only thing I found on Google related to this thing was a 2012 bug on a driver (something should have been fixed a long while ago)...
[16:05] <BluesKaj> which audio driver ?
[16:07] <BluesKaj> and which kubuntu rlease are you running?
 Kubuntu 19.04 and (how do I check if I am using pulse or alsa or whatever else?)
[16:14] <BluesKaj> alsa and pulseaudio are installed by default, and the audio driver in use can be found with, cat /proc/asound/modules, in the konsole
 drivers: … ``` 0 snd_hda_intel …  1 snd_hda_intel …  2 snd_hda_intel …  3 snd_usb_audio```
[19:26] <kubuntuUser> hello
[19:52] <dimitrije> uwu
[19:52] <dimitrije> hello
[20:23] <TBotNik> All,
[20:23] <TBotNik> Been a while since I've been on here. Tryiing to find solutions for problems I
[20:23] <TBotNik> posted at:
[20:23] <TBotNik> linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-software-2/full-file-sync-4175642356/
[20:23] <TBotNik> linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-software-2/git-merge-file-4175665383/
[20:23] <TBotNik> linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?p=6073555#post6073555
[21:45] <valorie> hmmm, 19.04 is about to go eol I believe
[21:54] <OerHeks> yes, a few parsecs from now
[21:58] <bprompt> valorie:  yeap, thus I run 16.04 LTS which runs smooth :P
[21:58] <bprompt> but I'll get 20.04 :)
 bprompt: sure, and then you don't have updated repos for WineHQ which I use for gaming on Linux so I don't have to use Windows anymore!!
[22:01] <bprompt> well, I do have windows10 btw :), I think the guys at microsoft are terrific btw :), but yes, there are some things in Linux I can do with a one-liner or a three-liner, that in windows it'll take too long or much overhead
 bprompt: sure thing, I have a triple boot to, I also use Windows 7 and 10 but by the way rebooting the PC every time to switch operating systems is quite annoying so I would rather stay on Linux of the more I can...
[22:17] <valorie> @BJPGameVideosITA win10 runs fine in a VM for me
[22:17] <valorie> when I occasionally have to use it for a genealogy program that won't run in wine


[00:03] <dutchie> it's too late to be doing all this
[00:06] <dutchie> I don't think tidying up all my folders was a very good idae
[00:06] <dutchie> idea*
[00:28] <humphreybc> lol
[00:28] <humphreybc> should i separate them
[00:28] <dutchie> it's alright for you, it's not half past midnight where you are
[00:28] <humphreybc> is there a quick way to separate them?
[00:28] <dutchie> humphreybc: probably
[00:29] <dutchie> cut and paste?
[00:29] <humphreybc> heh okay
[00:29] <humphreybc> i'll attempt that :)
[00:29] <humphreybc> get some sleep!
[00:29] <dutchie> good idea
[00:44] <humphreybc> dutchie: you still here?
[02:57] <humphreybc> hey godbyk i've created some new windows and things in quickshot and pushed. The cancel/close buttons actually work now too.
[02:57] <humphreybc> On an unrelated note, have you had a chance to look into including the revision number in the copyright page?
[02:58] <godbyk> cool
[02:58] <godbyk> ah, no, I haven't looked yet.
[02:59] <godbyk> I'll give that a shot in a couple minutes, though.
[03:01] <humphreybc> sweet
[03:07] <godbyk> I think I'm going to irk everyone soon by making them all upgrade to TeX Live 2009.  :-)
[03:21] <godbyk> It seems that bzr doesn't use the normal RCS keywords (like everyone else does).
[03:22] <godbyk> so I'm doing it in a hackier way, but it'll work.
[03:24] <godbyk> humphreybc: Revision info pushed.
[03:27] <humphreybc> godbyk: sweet
[03:33] <humphreybc> godbyk: are you planning on changing to tex live 2009?
[03:33] <humphreybc> perhaps we could look at creating a PPA for the team with everything packaged for ubuntu to make it easy for translators/contributors etc to download
[03:33] <godbyk> It seems that the glossary stuff in 2007 is antiquated (and the packages we want to use aren't in 2007), so we may have to update to 2009 for that.
[03:34] <humphreybc> hmm
[03:34] <humphreybc> okay
[03:34] <godbyk> And since we're using 2009 for the translated stuff, it means I can remove some of the special, just-for-English code that's there and then it's all using the same code regardless of language.
[03:34] <godbyk> So It'll simplify things on that front, too.
[03:35] <godbyk> humphreybc: There is a PPA, but I don't know if it's at all complete: http://www.tug.org/texlive/debian.html
[03:40] <humphreybc> okay
[03:40] <humphreybc> last updated 15/1/2010
[03:40] <humphreybc> that's pretty good
[03:41] <humphreybc> "TeX Live 2009 is now in Debian/unstable, and should transit to testing in a few days (2010-01-15)."
[03:41] <humphreybc> oh no wait
[03:41] <humphreybc> that's not ubuntu :P
[03:41] <humphreybc> https://edge.launchpad.net/~aelmahmoudy/+archive/tl2009
[03:42] <humphreybc> you've already got an install script right? just add a couple of lines that add that PPA and then install the necessary packages... presuming that PPA has everything we need. If you could have it echo some stuff like "Installing PPA..." "Downloading necessary packages..." then that would be cool too so everyone knows what's going on while they wait for 500mb to download...
[03:43] <godbyk> yeah, I saw the PPA, but it seems like it has a lot fewer packages than what's there for 2007.
[03:44] <godbyk> (There are many more than 12 texlive-* packages in the Karmic repositories.)
[03:44] <godbyk> Now, with 2009, you get a tlmgr program that grabs the latest LaTeX packages from the CTAN site.
[03:44] <godbyk> So maybe they're going to rely on that from here on instead of packaging the LaTeX packages themselves.
[03:44] <godbyk> I don't know.
[03:45] <humphreybc> hmm oky
[03:45] <humphreybc> when do we have to switch to 2009?
[03:46] <godbyk> We'll have to switch before we start doing the glossary stuff.
[03:46] <humphreybc> perhaps it's worth contacting "them" to find out what the best way is.... packaging ourselves in our own PPA (eek!) or using their tlmgr thing
[03:46] <godbyk> You can switch now if you want.  It doesn't hurt anything.
[03:46] <godbyk> I don't have time to package all of that myself.
[03:46] <humphreybc> lol i know
[03:46] <godbyk> It's pretty easy to install TL2009 using its own install scripts.
[03:46] <godbyk> (See my previous email with the instructions.)
[03:47] <humphreybc> okay cool
[03:47] <humphreybc> any way we can make that super easy?
[03:47] <humphreybc> (i'm just thinking of people like wendy who haven't used ubuntu before etc)
[03:47] <godbyk> I think the install-tl program is about as easy as it can be.
[03:47] <godbyk> It autodetects everything.
[03:47] <humphreybc> oh gnarly
[03:47] <humphreybc> no problemo then
[03:47] <godbyk> You just tell it 'go' and it goes.
[03:47] <humphreybc> that sounds swell
[03:48] <godbyk> Why don't you give it a try and let me know what part of the instructions could be clearer or elaborated on?
[03:48] <humphreybc> sure
[03:48] <humphreybc> so just from that email?
[03:49] <godbyk> yep
[03:49] <humphreybc> some keywords for me to find it in gmail?
[03:49] <humphreybc> haha
[03:50] <godbyk> search for 'install-tl'
[03:50] <humphreybc> sweet
[03:50] <humphreybc> got it
[03:51] <humphreybc> how big is 2009?
[03:52] <humphreybc> (don't say "about 52 weeks!"
[03:52] <humphreybc> haha
[03:53] <godbyk> It'll tell you on the menu how much it wants to download.
[03:53] <godbyk> I think for me, it was a couple gigs, 'cause I installed absolutely everything.
[03:53] <humphreybc> oO
[03:53] <humphreybc> that would take forever on our connection
[03:54] <godbyk> Hey, *you're* the one who wanted to switch ISPs! <grin>
[03:55] <humphreybc> lol well we'd be over our cap by now if i hadn't haha
[03:55] <godbyk> You can skip installing the documentation.
[03:55] <godbyk> That'll save a bit of space.
[03:55] <godbyk> (Quite a bit, actually.)
[03:55] <humphreybc> okay, well, i'll see what speed it goes at and if it's less than 20KB/s I'm ringing the ISP
[03:55] <humphreybc> i'll make up some (half true) stuff about it's stopping me from doing my work
[03:55] <godbyk> You *do* need to install the XeTeX/XeLaTeX engine, and you will need to install any languages you want to compile the translations for.
[03:56] <humphreybc> righto
[03:58] <humphreybc> what's this, it's going really fast!
[03:58] <humphreybc> like 700KB/s
[03:58] <humphreybc> WOW
[03:58] <humphreybc> I am amazed
[04:01]  * humphreybc wants a big ubuntu poster or flag for his wall
[04:01] <godbyk> cool
[04:42] <humphreybc> typical, the wireless drops halfway thru latex install
[04:43] <humphreybc> looks like it's going to pick up where it left off though which is good
[05:10] <godbyk> humphreybc: How goes the install?
[05:10] <humphreybc> oO it's done
[05:10] <humphreybc> haven't looked at it till just now
[05:10] <humphreybc> cool
[05:10] <humphreybc> so what's the command to make say, the spanish version?
[05:12] <humphreybc> godbyk: benjamin@benjamin-laptop:~/Manual/ubuntu-manual$ make
[05:12] <humphreybc> bzr version-info > revision.tex
[05:12] <humphreybc> pdflatex main
[05:12] <humphreybc> /bin/bash: pdflatex: command not found
[05:12] <humphreybc> make: *** [main.pdf] Error 127
[05:13] <godbyk> run the install-tl script again and make sure the 'create symlinks' option (last option listed) is checked.
[05:13] <godbyk> (it shouldn't have to install or download anything again)
[05:13] <godbyk> or, alternatively, add the bin dir to your PATH.
[05:14] <humphreybc> what do I put as the "new value for binary directory?"
[05:17] <godbyk> leave the default, probably.
[05:18] <humphreybc> sweet
[05:19] <godbyk> did that work?
[05:19] <godbyk> if so, you can try running "make ubuntu-manual-es.pdf" for instance.
[05:20] <humphreybc> I think it has to download another 2GB
[05:20] <humphreybc> it did say "Disk space required: 2036mb" or something
[05:20] <humphreybc> and it's downloading stuff
[05:21] <godbyk> really?  hmm..
[05:21] <humphreybc> yep
[05:21] <godbyk> it should detect that you've already installed the stuff.
[05:21] <godbyk> well, you could kill it, and make the symlinks yourself, I s'pose.
[05:22] <godbyk> we should add a note to the instructions about telling the installer to create symlinks.
[05:22] <godbyk> were there any other quirks or errors in the install instructions I wrote?
[05:24] <humphreybc> hmm i don't think so
[05:24] <humphreybc> i'll see if this works
[05:26] <godbyk> What's it downloading? Everything?
[05:28] <humphreybc> appears that way
[05:28] <humphreybc> up to 280/2003 things, or mb, it doesn't say
[05:29] <humphreybc> it says "Installing" so maybe it's not downloading but just installing... although it does pause for a bit on larger things
[05:31] <humphreybc> it also has time/total - I guess the total is estimated. It's currently at 12:36/40:2
[05:31] <humphreybc> 40:22*
[05:31] <godbyk> Hmm.. weird.
[05:31] <humphreybc> where did it install it the first time round?
[05:34] <godbyk> In /usr/local/texlive/2009/ probably
[05:35] <godbyk> (that's the default location for all its files)
[05:35] <godbyk> might've been able to create the symlinks via tlmgr, too. I'm not very familiar with it yet.
[05:37] <humphreybc> okay so there's 2.3GB in that directory
[05:37] <humphreybc> and where is it installing stuff to now?
[05:38] <humphreybc> heh i don't know what dutchie is doing with the planet but for some reason it never updates my feed automatically
[05:38] <godbyk> same place, presumably.
[05:45] <humphreybc> that was odd, pidgin just randomly crashed for no reason
[05:47] <humphreybc> and it crashed again
[05:50] <godbyk> nice
[05:51] <godbyk> what irc client are you using?
[05:52] <humphreybc> pidgin
[05:52] <humphreybc> it usually works flawlessly
[05:52] <humphreybc> but maybe i upset it somehow
[05:53] <humphreybc> apparently texlive has 15 minutes left
[05:54] <godbyk> ah, pidgin crashes randomly for me, too
[05:55] <humphreybc> could be worse i guess
[05:59] <humphreybc> could be using windows
[06:43] <humphreybc> godbyk: looks like i'm in business with 2009
[06:43] <humphreybc> how do you make a translated one again?
[06:43] <humphreybc> lost the command after pidgin crashed
[06:47] <godbyk> just run: make ubuntu-manual-LANG.pdf
[06:47] <godbyk> where LANG is the same name as the .po file
[06:47] <godbyk> (try es for spanish, for instance.)
[06:57] <humphreybc> benjamin@benjamin-laptop:~/Manual/ubuntu-manual$ make ubuntu-manual-es.pdf
[06:57] <humphreybc> po4a-translate --master-charset=utf8 -f latex -m main.tex -p po/es.po -l ubuntu-manual-es.tex -k 0
[06:57] <humphreybc> po4a::tex: Can't read from file without having a filename
[06:57] <humphreybc>  at /usr/bin/po4a-translate line 227
[06:57] <humphreybc> make: *** [ubuntu-manual-es.tex] Error 9
[07:05] <godbyk> um..
[07:05] <godbyk> weird
[07:05] <godbyk> hold on
[07:08] <godbyk> nice
[07:08] <godbyk> po4a doesn't like my revision stuff for some reason.
[07:08] <godbyk> lemme see what it's problem is.
[07:11] <godbyk> fixed it.
[07:11] <godbyk> pushed.
[07:11] <godbyk> now I have to fix some typos that others left behind.
[07:11] <godbyk> (I swear no one tries to compile before they commit.)
[07:14] <godbyk> humphreybc: try make ubuntu-manual-lt.pdf
[07:14] <godbyk> es has typos
[07:14] <godbyk> de has typos
[07:14] <godbyk> (different typos, even.)
[07:14] <godbyk> I'm going to write a script to attempt to build all of the translations and whatever and put 'em on my site.
[07:14] <godbyk> will also post errors.
[07:15] <godbyk> is there an API for launchpad to create bugs against our translated manual?
[07:23] <humphreybc> not sure
[07:23] <humphreybc> make ubuntu-manual-lt.pdf throws the same error, 9
[07:25] <humphreybc> oh wait didn't see that you fixed it above
[07:25] <humphreybc> i'll try again
[07:25] <godbyk> yeah, do a pull and try again
[07:25] <godbyk> know of any open source build servers?
[07:25] <humphreybc> this seems to be more successful
[07:25] <godbyk> I'm looking to set one up for our project.
[07:25] <humphreybc> not off hand nope
[07:26] <humphreybc> i get a couple of errors regarding "Gentium Book Basic"
[07:26] <humphreybc> and Aksharyogini
[07:26] <humphreybc> I guess i'm missing fonts
[07:26] <godbyk> Install the ttf-sil-gentium and ttf-sil-gentium-basic packages.
[07:26] <godbyk> right.
[07:26] <humphreybc> also Gautami
[07:26] <godbyk> well, install ttf-*  :-)
[07:27] <humphreybc> i think
[07:27] <humphreybc> haha okay
[07:27] <godbyk> I'm going to restructure that bit of code, soon too.
[07:27] <humphreybc> so they're just in the default repos?
[07:27] <godbyk> yeah, I think all the fonts I'm using so far, are.
[07:27] <godbyk> well, maybe not Gautami.
[07:27] <godbyk> I think that's a MS Windows font.
[07:28] <humphreybc> i'm getting loads of errors
[07:28] <humphreybc> ! \textfont 0 is undefined (character u).
[07:28] <humphreybc> \Url@FormatString ...\Url@String \UrlRight \m@th $
[07:28] <humphreybc> but replace character u with every single character ever
[07:28] <humphreybc> so overall didn't build
[07:29] <humphreybc> i'll try installing fonts
[07:29] <godbyk> yeah, install fonts first, then try it again.
[07:30] <humphreybc> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[07:30] <humphreybc>   ttf-kochi-gothic: Conflicts: ttf-kochi-gothic-naga10
[07:30] <humphreybc>   ttf-kochi-gothic-naga10: Conflicts: ttf-kochi-gothic
[07:30] <humphreybc>   ttf-kochi-mincho: Conflicts: ttf-kochi-mincho-naga10
[07:30] <humphreybc>   ttf-kochi-mincho-naga10: Conflicts: ttf-kochi-mincho
[07:30] <humphreybc> good times all round haha
[07:31] <godbyk> nice.
[07:31] <godbyk> okay, well, look in the ubuntu-manual.cls file
[07:31] <godbyk> there will be a bunch of \setmainfont lines with comments telling you where I got the fonts from.
[07:33] <humphreybc> hmm fun
[07:33] <humphreybc> so i need to go to all these sites and download them?
[07:34] <godbyk> at the moment, yeah.
[07:34] <godbyk> or you can wait 'til I restructure that bit.. then you'll only need those fonts if you want to compile those translations.
[07:35] <humphreybc> okay i'll install the ones i can find in the repos
[07:35] <humphreybc> and other than that just wait i think :)
[07:36] <humphreybc> pretty shattered, been up since about 7am today
[07:36] <humphreybc> my brain has stopped working properly
[07:36] <humphreybc> :)
[07:36] <godbyk> nice
[07:37] <humphreybc> half past 8 and i'm almost falling asleep on my laptop!
[07:37] <humphreybc> a build server would be cool
[07:37] <humphreybc> if you need somewhere to host stuff my server has a bit of space
[07:38] <humphreybc> i'm getting another 500GB HDD for it next week
[07:38] <godbyk> I've got (allegedly) unlimited space and bandwidth.
[07:38] <godbyk> Though I've never pushed it. :-)
[07:38] <humphreybc> oh really? who are you with?
[07:39] <humphreybc> does that cost a lot per month?
[07:39] <godbyk> Dreamhost: http://www.dreamhost.com/
[07:39] <godbyk> Costs ~$8 a month, I think.
[07:40] <humphreybc> wow
[07:40] <humphreybc> that's impressive
[07:40] <humphreybc> what's with the dude on the front page? http://www.dreamhost.com/hosting.html
[07:41] <humphreybc> does he actually run it!?
[07:41] <humphreybc> he must be like 13
[07:42] <humphreybc> they do everything for so cheap... far out... the NZ costs are at least 1000x more expensive
[07:42] <godbyk> heh
[07:42] <humphreybc> I think for $180 a month you get something like 5GB with 10GB of bandwidth or something
[07:42] <humphreybc> http://www.freeparking.co.nz/hosting
[07:42] <humphreybc> correction 250mb of space, 10GB bandwidth for $150 a year
[07:42] <humphreybc> oh it's a year
[07:42] <godbyk> Here's what "unlimited" means: http://www.dreamhost.com/unlimited.html
[07:43] <humphreybc> that's not as bad but still... lol
[07:43] <humphreybc> i still want to know who the kid is
[07:44] <godbyk> Stock photo, I'm guessing.
[07:45] <humphreybc> they're rather informal
[07:45] <humphreybc> "Actually, for you, my dear Legitimate Website Owner, it is unlimited."
[07:45] <humphreybc> "This whole page is just to announce to the <.1% of people who want to try and run free porn affiliate sites or anime video trading forums or host pirated rips of The Dark Knight on DreamHost that we're not having any."
[07:45] <humphreybc> lol
[07:45] <godbyk> Oh, yeah, they have character!
[07:46] <humphreybc> they do
[07:46] <godbyk> You should see the monthly newsletters.
[07:46] <humphreybc> haha
[07:46] <humphreybc> $8 is so cheap
[07:46] <humphreybc> how do they make their money?
[07:46] <godbyk> Volume?
[07:47] <humphreybc> http://www.dreamhost.com/aboutus-profiles.html
[07:47] <humphreybc> they put photos up of them as a kid, what the hell lol
[07:48] <godbyk> ha! nice.
[07:48] <godbyk> So it *is* Mike S.
[07:48] <humphreybc> it is so weird but cool
[07:49] <godbyk> Their blog has more cheekiness: http://blog.dreamhost.com/
[07:49] <humphreybc> LOL read "What's the craziest thing you've ever seen while working at DreamHost?"
[07:49] <humphreybc> http://www.dreamhost.com/profile-dallask.html
[07:50] <humphreybc> http://www.dreamhost.com/profile-jeremyk.html
[07:50] <humphreybc> "What do you do at DreamHost?"
[07:50] <humphreybc> "I make music with the fans of the servers. Ok, not really. But I do try to bring all of the servers into harmony and keep them there!"
[07:50] <godbyk> nice
[07:52] <humphreybc> lol
[07:53] <humphreybc> the ipad giveaway thing
[07:53] <humphreybc> "Okay, it’s going to be 20 of the $499 models (16G wifi-only) given away. Also note: if you don’t live in the US but give us a US mailing address when we contact you after you win, well, how are we going to know the difference?"
[07:53] <humphreybc> lol what: http://blog.dreamhost.com/2010/01/18/happy-new-year-zealand/
[07:53] <humphreybc> oh cool they went to LCA
[07:54] <humphreybc> what an odd company
[07:54] <humphreybc> they're even stranger than google
[07:55] <humphreybc> i wonder how many customers they have
[07:56] <godbyk> I'm not sure, but a ton.
[07:57] <humphreybc> LOL http://techcrunch.com/2008/01/15/dreamhost-overbills-customers-75-million-uses-homer-simpson-to-deliver-apology/
[07:59] <humphreybc> i think that's how i'd run a business
[07:59] <humphreybc> i've always had this grand scheme of my first business modelled after google with cool furniture and crazy staff schemes
[07:59] <humphreybc> these guys are probably all just kids at heart, hence the child photos
[08:01] <humphreybc> but i love their laid back attitude about 7.5 million bucks. just like "whoops."
[08:01] <godbyk> Yeah, they're pretty crazy.  I like 'em.
[08:02] <godbyk> http://www.dreamhost.com/limited-time-sale-going-on-now.html
[08:02] <humphreybc> too bad i don't need their services at the moment, otherwise i'd sign up lol
[08:03] <humphreybc> another great service I use is Weebly
[08:03] <humphreybc> they're really good guys
[08:03] <humphreybc> I use them for my website (no I didn't make it myself, but I could have) because it's reliable, fast, there is no limit on data or bandwidth and it's like $30 a year or something which is perfectly reasonable
[08:03] <humphreybc> plus it's sooo easy to maintain
[08:04] <humphreybc> and their customer support is excellent. I emailed them to suggest a feature and I got the CEO reply and say he'll work on in personally. We had a chat about Ubuntu too because he noticed my signature
[08:05] <godbyk> Cool
[08:06] <humphreybc> I love IT... it's so... different
[08:07] <humphreybc> work from home/crazy companies/tonnes of creativity/usually friendly people
[08:07] <humphreybc> i could never see myself as a lawyer or accountant :O
[08:10] <godbyk> Same here.  I much prefer the relaxed environments.
[08:10] <godbyk> I'm not a fan of wearing ties or suits.
[08:12] <humphreybc> yeah me neither
[08:15] <humphreybc> godbyk: what would be the easiest way for me to see the other windows in quickshot?
[08:15] <humphreybc> just to test out the UI
[08:16] <godbyk> Hmm. Not sure.  Can you call window.show() or something?
[08:16] <godbyk> (where 'window' is the var that points to that window)
[08:16] <humphreybc> well i'm looking in the quickshot python file and i'm a bit lost
[08:16] <humphreybc> i don't know any python at all
[08:17] <humphreybc> i do know a bit of java but i've forgotten most of that
[08:17] <humphreybc> i just want glade to render a window for me, or to call it from the CLI?
[08:18] <godbyk> I haven't done any GUI programming in Python, so I'm not sure.  Sorry.
[08:18] <humphreybc> that's all good
[08:26] <godbyk> I'm setting up buildbot.
[08:37] <humphreybc> oh yes?
[08:37] <godbyk> slowly. :-)
[08:37] <humphreybc> nice, so it's a server based thing that takes latex imports and builds PDFs, right?
[08:43] <godbyk> Well, the buildbot will build anything you tell it how to build.
[08:43] <godbyk> in this case, I'll have it pull our manual out of bzr, then compile each translation, and generate a report about what worked, what failed, etc.
[08:46] <ubuntujenkins> what theme was used to take the quickshot screen shot?
[08:51] <godbyk> That's a question for humphreybc.
[08:53] <humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: it's this: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/02/x-ivi-human-deluxe-proposed-lucid-theme.html
[08:53] <humphreybc> but with lucidity borders
[08:53] <humphreybc> or homosapien borders... i'll check hold up
[08:53] <humphreybc> if you think the windows look nice, check out the menus and panel xD
[08:54] <humphreybc> Lucidity window borders
[08:55] <ubuntujenkins> thanks i will, I am quite happy to test quickshot as and when you need more tester I have a very limited python knowledge so can't help on that front.
[08:57] <humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: sure, well at the moment there is nothing to test but soon there will be :D
[08:58] <ubuntujenkins> I have been having a sneky peak at the bzr branch
[08:59] <ubuntujenkins> It looks good
[08:59] <humphreybc> sure go for it, you want me to add you to the dev team?
[09:00]  * humphreybc buzz has actually been useful - had a person who knows python express interest in helping with quickshot!!
[09:02] <ubuntujenkins> feel free to add me, I shall join the luanchpad group I am going to follow closely so that I can understand how to make a program
[09:02] <humphreybc> what's your launchpad username?
[09:02] <ubuntujenkins> luke jennings
[09:03] <humphreybc> cool
[09:03] <ubuntujenkins> just joined the quickshot lp page
[09:03] <humphreybc> yup i'm just loading the page to confirm you
[09:03] <humphreybc> launchpad is so slow
[09:03] <ubuntujenkins> thanks :)
[09:04] <humphreybc> done
[09:04] <ubuntujenkins> cool
[09:05] <TommyBrunn> Hey humphreybc
[09:05] <humphreybc> gidday!
[09:05] <TommyBrunn> I take it you're Benjamin?
[09:05] <humphreybc> yep
[09:05] <humphreybc> humphreybc is my nick for pretty much everything
[09:05] <TommyBrunn> I see.
[09:05] <humphreybc> ubuntu forums, wiki, launchpad, IRC, skype, msn, gmail etc etc
[09:05] <TommyBrunn> Anyway, I'm going to take a look at Quickshot later today
[09:05] <humphreybc> it's just my last name with my initials :)
[09:06] <humphreybc> awesome, sounds great!
[09:06] <TommyBrunn> I can't promise much though. I'm afraid I'm terribly rusty.
[09:06] <humphreybc> I created it using Quickly, so you'll have to install quickly first to run it - or you could probably just run the python file
[09:06] <TommyBrunn> My uni is forcing me to use horrible languages such as Java and C#, rather than Python.
[09:06] <humphreybc> hehe same at my uni
[09:06] <humphreybc> although I'm doing a python paper this semester
[09:06] <humphreybc> last year I did java
[09:06] <humphreybc> what year are you?
[09:06] <TommyBrunn> First year.
[09:07] <humphreybc> oh cool, i'm going to be second this year
[09:07] <humphreybc> I'm not of much use regarding python at the moment, but I am getting kinda good at Glade
[09:07] <TommyBrunn> I'm thinking about doing the same thing as you did, and switching over to comp sci instead. The program I'm currently in is a complete joke in many aspects.
[09:08] <TommyBrunn> Quickly uses glade and gtkbuilder for the interface, right?
[09:08] <TommyBrunn> I've never used Quickly before, but I do have some experience with Glade.
[09:08] <humphreybc> mmm, well for my uni, the software engineering major had a whole YEAR of commerce papers... dry, boring, commerce papers... so I changed to comp sci, got rid of the boringness, get to do more programming and chop a year off my degree
[09:08] <humphreybc> yep that's correct
[09:08] <humphreybc> quickly basically just creates a project off a template
[09:08] <humphreybc> this is the first time i've used it too, so I'm sort of walking blind if you will
[09:09] <humphreybc> heh... i haven't used quickly, python or glade before... yet the program uses all three tools. O.o
[09:09] <TommyBrunn> Alright. I'll give it a shot in a bit. I'm afraid my brain wonä
[09:09] <TommyBrunn> *won't be of much use until I've had a shower
[09:09] <humphreybc> so basically, if you want to take a look at it, what i'd quite like it to do just for this week is to get the "next" buttons working so they actually go to the next window
[09:09] <humphreybc> that way I can test out the other UI windows that I've created in glade
[09:10] <TommyBrunn> I'll have a look once I get back.
[09:10] <TommyBrunn> bbl
[09:10] <humphreybc> awesome
[09:10] <humphreybc> i may not be here when you get back, it's 10pm here and i have an exam tomorrow so should probably get some shut-eye
[09:18] <ubuntujenkins> good luck with the exam
[09:21] <humphreybc> haha ubuntujenkins, i'll need it, i haven't been to any lectures or anything
[09:21] <humphreybc> i'll need a LOT of luck!
[09:22] <humphreybc> godbyk: sorry for late reply, that sounds awesome
[09:22] <ubuntujenkins> have a LOT of luck
[09:22] <humphreybc> haha
[09:22] <humphreybc> TommyBrunn: let me know how you go with Quickshot, email me<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:23] <humphreybc> TommyBrunn: I'll check my emails tomorrow sometime before I head away on holiday and answer any questions you have - other than that, just go nuts! The specification and workflow layout is on the wiki for Quickshot: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/quickshot
[09:42] <TommyBrunn> humphreybc: In case you're still here, maybe you should add me to the launchpad dev team.
[09:45] <humphreybc> yep i am here
[09:45] <humphreybc> what's your lp username?
[09:45] <humphreybc> omg dutchie
[09:45] <humphreybc> are you just waking up and i'm still here?
[09:53] <TommyBrunn> humphreybc: My lp username is reklamnevon, I believe.
[09:53] <humphreybc> cool
[09:55] <humphreybc> i think you're just tommy brunn
[09:55] <humphreybc> i added you
[09:57] <TommyBrunn> Oh yeah, would you look at that. Three new fancy icons on my profile.
[09:58] <TommyBrunn> If I go ahead and make something awesome of this, how would I commit those changes back to trunk? Do I make a new branch and then let you merge that into trunk, or do I just push it there myself?
[10:02] <humphreybc> nope just push to the main one
[10:02] <humphreybc> not enough people to bother with merges at the moment
[10:02] <humphreybc> just bzr add, bzr diff, bzr commit -m "Your changes", bzr push lp:quickshot
[10:02] <humphreybc> (in that order)
[10:02] <humphreybc> oh and don't forget to pull first in case I have made changes
[10:17] <humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: if you've got some time, it would be really helpful if you could go through your chapter and put in the /screenshotTODO{text} commands wherever you want a screenshot
[10:19] <ubuntujenkins> I will do in the bits I have written not I will have thought about what screen shots are needed
[10:20] <humphreybc> awesome thanks
[10:20] <humphreybc> I just emailed the ML with some more info
[10:20] <ubuntujenkins> ignore the "not" that has got to be the worst sentence Ever written! I will see where I would like them
[10:21] <ubuntujenkins> just got it :)
[10:24] <TommyBrunn> humphreybc: Your friendly neighborhood Python coder has gotten the basic next buttons to work. [party]
[10:24] <humphreybc> TommyBrunn: awesome!
[10:24] <humphreybc> push push and i'll have a look :D
[10:24] <TommyBrunn> Alright. Will do.
[10:24]  * ubuntujenkins gets ready to pull
[10:26] <TommyBrunn> Should be pushed now
[10:26] <TommyBrunn> Note that when you click next it'll just run through a lot of the windows really quickly, as it doesn't actually do anything yet.
[10:26] <TommyBrunn> Normally content would be downloaded, user accounts would be created, and stuff like that.
[10:26] <humphreybc> cool
[10:26] <TommyBrunn> For now it just prints something to the terminal.
[10:28] <ubuntujenkins> cool TommyBrunn which file is that funtionality of that done in?
[10:28] <TommyBrunn> quickshot/bin/quickshot
[10:28] <TommyBrunn> The method called on_next_1_clicked() is the callback from the first next button.
[10:28] <TommyBrunn> Anything in that method is run when the button is clicked.
[10:30] <ubuntujenkins> ok cool I think it might be over my head might need to know more python. :)
[10:31] <TommyBrunn> It took me some time to get back into this whole signal-callback thing. I haven't been coding Python for over 6 months, and the only graphical thing I've done in that time is some Lua scripting and some Java swing development.
[10:31] <TommyBrunn> But it's not that complicated once you get into it.
[10:32] <TommyBrunn> Coffee helps.
[10:32] <TommyBrunn> Which is why I'm going to go fetch a cup right now.
[10:32] <ubuntujenkins> I can do bits of bash/shell and matlab I started learning python a while ago and ran out of time due to my course . but I have no work at the moment so free time!
[10:33] <humphreybc> wicked, yeah i can do java and html and stuff but python is new to me. soon i will be a python whizz though, i bought a python book and am doing a python paper this semester at uni.. plus writing a python program! woo! python!
[10:34] <ubuntujenkins> is the book any good? which one is it
[10:35] <TommyBrunn> I would recommend Beginning Python by Magnus Lie Hetland. It has a lot of practical examples in it. The only bad thing I can say about it is that it doesn't use gtkbuilder for any of its graphical parts.
[10:35] <TommyBrunn> I think it uses Tkinter.
[10:35] <humphreybc> TommyBrunn: could you make it so that it goes from window to window in this order: main > usersetup > login > newuserwelcome > screenshotinfo > capture?
[10:36] <humphreybc> I've got the "Python visual quickstart guide second edition" by Toby Donaldson
[10:36] <TommyBrunn> It does. It's just that it doesn't do anything, so you never see the windows because they appear and disappear so fast.
[10:36] <humphreybc> ah okay
[10:37] <humphreybc> could you make it so that it goes so that we can actually see the other windows, or perhaps even just a delay of 10 seconds on the windows without buttons
[10:37] <humphreybc> just so i can test the UI
[10:37] <TommyBrunn> Sure.
[10:37] <humphreybc> awesome :)
[10:37] <humphreybc> would you know how to have the content in the same window?
[10:37] <humphreybc> instead of spawning new ones
[10:37] <humphreybc> so main > usersetup > login should all be in one window instance
[10:37] <humphreybc> like a real program
[10:37] <ubuntujenkins> my library doesn't have it :(
[10:38] <humphreybc> and then newuserwelcome would spawn a new window
[10:38] <humphreybc> (because the app starts up again in the other user account)
[10:38] <humphreybc> and then from then on it's all in one window too
[10:38] <ubuntujenkins> I have a heat transfer lab to go to night humphrey
[10:38] <humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: it's fairly new, written last year i think
[10:38] <humphreybc> okay night
[10:39] <ubuntujenkins> by TommyBrunn thanks
[10:39] <ubuntujenkins> *bye
[10:39] <TommyBrunn> Hmm... I'm having some problems here with the sleep command. It's sleeping alright, but after it has slept it spawns all the windows at once. Not quite what i had in mind...
[10:40] <humphreybc> haha
[10:40] <humphreybc> you can ask for help in #ubuntu-app-devel if you want
[10:40] <TommyBrunn> I believe that in order to have the stuff in the same window, you would need to have a single window and then substitute the content in the program. Though I'm not sure, as I haven't used glade that much.
[10:40] <humphreybc> or #pygtk on irc.gnome.org
[10:41] <humphreybc> yeah i think that's what martin says
[10:41] <humphreybc> well feel free to leave me a list of stuff to do
[10:41] <humphreybc> and i'll try my best to work it out and do it for you :)
[10:43] <TommyBrunn> Honestly though, I think that at this point it would probably be easier and faster for us to have each "view" be a different window - even if it isn't quite as pretty.
[10:43] <humphreybc> righto
[10:43] <humphreybc> that's cool
[10:43] <humphreybc> dutchie godbyk: http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2010/02/15/groundcontrol-1-5-–-custom-scripts-and-bug-fixes/
[10:44] <humphreybc> dutchie godbyk: we want to take advantage of these "buttons" that martin talks about. (It's actually something that I suggested) and so basically we want make release to build the PDF. All it has to do is run make show
[10:44] <humphreybc> actually
[10:44] <humphreybc> i'll do that now
[10:46] <TommyBrunn> Got it working now. You need to press a button in the terminal you're running it from, in order to proceed to the next window.
[10:47] <TommyBrunn> I just realized, however, that I missed a tiny thingy. I'll push once I've got that sorted.
[10:48] <humphreybc> awesome
[10:50] <TommyBrunn> Pushed.
[10:52] <TommyBrunn> However, something struck me as odd, or quite possibly impossible. Once the user account has been created, it wouldn't really be possible to switch sessions and still have Quickshot running in the same state in the new session.
[10:53] <TommyBrunn> What I suppose you could do is to instruct the user to start quickshot from that other session, and have the program check the user account to see if it's called quickshot - and if so, skip the whole creation of a user account, and just skip ahead to the screenshot part.
[10:53] <humphreybc> no i know, we have to start quickshot again
[10:53] <humphreybc> yeah
[10:54] <humphreybc> or just set it up so that when it creates the user "quickshot" it also creates a startup entry for quickshot
[10:54] <TommyBrunn> But can an application be installed globally?
[10:54] <humphreybc> i think it should be installed globally.
[10:54] <humphreybc> if not, we can install it on the new user as well :)
[10:54] <humphreybc> all of that will happen when it sets up the new user
[10:54] <TommyBrunn> Yeah, I guess so.
[10:55] <humphreybc> it might be a bit hackish
[10:55] <humphreybc> but it should work
[10:55] <TommyBrunn> Hackish is how I roll. :P
[10:55] <humphreybc> it's not often that programs are actually required to make a new user :D
[10:55] <TommyBrunn> What would be very helpful, if you have the time, would be to create a branch for the screenshots, so I can see if I can get the downloading and parsing of that set up.
[10:56] <humphreybc> dutchie godbyk i've created a .gcfunctions file that points towards two new scripts i've made, make_pdf.sh and make_clean.sh that just run those commands. Ground Control 1.5 should see the .gcfunctions file and create the buttons, but I haven't tested it yet because I'm still waiting for Martin to package 1.5 for karmic.
[10:56] <humphreybc> yep
[10:56] <humphreybc> i'll do that tomorrow
[10:56] <TommyBrunn> Alright.
[10:57] <humphreybc> if i have time :)
[10:57] <godbyk> gotcha
[10:57] <TommyBrunn> Anything else I can do today, other than small UI fixes?
[10:57] <humphreybc> not really, just go ahead and have a play
[10:57] <humphreybc> small UI fixes could be good :)
[10:57] <TommyBrunn> (I always get really exited when I first become involved with a project. Expect my level of commitment to gradually decrease with time. :P)
[10:57] <humphreybc> haha
[10:57] <humphreybc> that's oaky
[10:57] <humphreybc> okay*
[10:58] <godbyk> humphreybc: Can't you just have it run 'make' without the shell script?
[10:58] <humphreybc> i don't think so because ground control creates the buttons that point to a script
[10:58] <humphreybc> i'm just going to test it now
[10:59] <humphreybc> this is quite cool because it means contributors don't have to use the CLI for anything for our project
[10:59] <humphreybc> unless they want to do some fancy shit
[11:01] <humphreybc> so much for my early night :D
[11:01] <komsas> godbyk: I get error that I don't have AksharYogini font, do you know package which can solve this?
[11:01] <komsas> http://paste.ubuntu.com/377507/
[11:01] <godbyk> does it say in the ubuntu-manual.cls file?
[11:03] <komsas> yes, there is one line "\newfontfamily\devanagarifont[]{Aksharyogini}% from ttf-FIXME"
[11:03] <godbyk> humphreybc: Try ttf-devanagari-fonts
[11:04] <godbyk> Er, sorry, komsas: apt-get install ttf-devanagari-fonts
[11:04] <godbyk> (humphreybc was asking about it earlier, too.)
[11:05] <komsas> he
[11:05] <humphreybc> hmm godbyk i'm just pushing through the changes that should make ground control work with the buttons but it hasn't
[11:05] <komsas> I'm not only one with problems :)
[11:05] <godbyk> komsas: Yeah, I'm still playing with a ton of fonts, so that bit is in flux.
[11:13] <komsas> "\button{forward}" - I don't have experience with latex, can I translate word "forward"?
[11:17] <humphreybc> nope
[11:18] <humphreybc> anything in braces or in front of a backslash is a command and doesn't need to be translated
[11:19] <godbyk> komsas: Don't translate button, but do translate forward.
[11:19] <godbyk> The translation should match whatever the label of the forward button is in that situation.
[11:21] <humphreybc> oh yeah of course
[11:21] <humphreybc> oops
[11:21] <humphreybc> i think i need some sleep
[11:21] <humphreybc> lol
[11:22] <godbyk> humphreybc: no problem.
[11:22] <godbyk> I think I'm going to head to bed myself.
[11:22] <godbyk> It's 5:22 a.m. here.
[11:22] <humphreybc> what time is it at yours?
[11:22] <humphreybc> eeek!
[11:22] <godbyk> (I'm on a weird schedule where I go to sleep early in the morning and wake up early/mid afternoon.)
[11:23] <humphreybc> lol
[11:23] <humphreybc> suits my timezone which is good
[11:23] <godbyk> (One of the perks to being unemployed, I s'pose.)
[11:23] <humphreybc> haha
[11:23] <humphreybc> if you could just remind everyone when you see each person to do two things
[11:23] <TommyBrunn> I'm making some serious progress here. I've already been able to check for an existing user account, and if it doesn't exist, make one.
[11:23] <humphreybc> 1) confirm 48 hour times ASAP
[11:23] <humphreybc> 2) insert screenshot TODOs all over the place
[11:23] <humphreybc> TommyBrunn: that's awesome!
[11:24] <humphreybc> Ground Control is actually quite usable now btw guys
[11:24] <humphreybc> it's not crashing nautilus as much and it's a lot quicker
[11:25] <godbyk> Where can we snag the latest version?
[11:25] <humphreybc> btw, the Lucid universe freeze is tomorrow
[11:25] <humphreybc> godbyk: one sec i'll find the ppa
[11:25] <humphreybc> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:doctormo/groundcontrol
[11:25] <humphreybc> sudo apt-get install groundcontrol
[11:25] <humphreybc> that's ppa: doctormo/groundcontrol
[11:26] <humphreybc> with no space
[11:26] <humphreybc> otherwise it activates a smiley face
[11:26] <humphreybc> https://edge.launchpad.net/groundcontrol
[11:26] <humphreybc> :D
[11:26] <humphreybc> test it out on our branch, in theory the buttons should be working but they're not
[11:27] <humphreybc> godbyk: in case you haven't already figured it out, I want our project to be as accessible to contributors as possible... so I want to get all new people using Ground Control and I want these buttons working to make the pdf and also make clean
[11:28] <humphreybc> that way we attract a whole new base of potential contributors who don't like the command line :D
[11:28] <humphreybc> even though it is only running a couple of commands
[11:29] <godbyk> does the latest repository version of groundcontrol support the buttons? or is it not in the repos yet?
[11:31] <humphreybc> yep it does
[11:32] <humphreybc> it should do
[11:32] <humphreybc> see martin's post that i linked to earlier
[11:32] <humphreybc> i'm pretty sure i've done everything right
[11:32] <humphreybc> but just have a look to make sure
[11:33] <godbyk> there's code in there that references the .gcfunctions file
[11:33] <godbyk> trying to see where I can find logs of errors/warnings from gc
[11:33] <TommyBrunn> What's the "Help me figure this out or I will shoot myself" Python IRC channel?
[11:34] <humphreybc> #ubuntu-app-devel on irc.freenode.net or #pygtk on irc.gnome.org
[11:34] <humphreybc> or ubuntu forums :)
[11:34] <godbyk> TommyBrunn: I think you just add 'import writeitforme' and you're done
[11:34] <TommyBrunn> Oh, so that's why it wasn't working!
[11:34] <TommyBrunn> I'll give that module a shot.
[11:35] <humphreybc> TommyBrunn: before you push remember to pull, i've committed two revisions since you last pulled
[11:35] <humphreybc> (for quickshot)
[11:35] <TommyBrunn> Will do.
[11:35] <humphreybc> i wonder if we need another IRC channel for quickshot....
[11:35] <humphreybc> lol
[11:36] <TommyBrunn> I have a feeling that it would be a quite empty channel.
[11:36] <godbyk> no warnings in the log file about the buttons.
[11:36] <godbyk> I'll be right back.
[11:36] <humphreybc> TommyBrunn: you'd be right haha
[11:36] <humphreybc> right i'm going to sleep, night all!
[11:36] <TommyBrunn> Night!
[11:36] <humphreybc> have fun with quickshot xD
[11:39] <thorwil> does inkscape embed fonts in PDF exports?
[11:42] <thorwil> seems like it doesn't. https://answers.launchpad.net/inkscape/+question/37620
[11:44] <TommyBrunn> Too bad Benjamin went to bed just now. Some guy over at ubuntu-app-devel had a great idea, that would be our job about a gazillion times easier.
[11:45] <TommyBrunn> Instead of creating a new user account, why not just have the user log in to a guest account and run quickshot from there.
[12:03] <dutchie> that was me
[12:05] <godbyk> back
[12:06] <godbyk> TommyBrunn: I brought that up with humphreybc earlier, and he shot it down.  I can't remember why.  I think because the guest account doesn't have enough permissions or something.
[12:06] <TommyBrunn> Alright. Oh well, I've already gotten the user account creation working, so it should be fine.
[12:07] <TommyBrunn> I had forgotten how awesome Python is.
[12:12] <godbyk> Frakking groundcontrol.
[12:12] <godbyk> Didn't do what I told it to.
[12:12] <godbyk> I told it to ignore the 'new' files it say, but oh no.. it decided to commit them anyway.
[12:15] <godbyk> fixed now.
[12:22] <thorwil> so i found out the hard way that converting text to path in inkscape before saving to pdf is safer than just checking the convert checkbox on export
[12:39] <godbyk> thorwil: Nice!
[12:39] <godbyk> Do the transparent bits look nicer now?
[12:40] <godbyk> Sorry.. should've phrased that differently:
[12:40] <godbyk> Did you also figure out how to make the semi-transparent bits look nice during conversion to PDF?
[12:40] <TommyBrunn> It just occurred to me that it's probably not a very good idea to have a default password on the created account. Seems like quite a security issue, if you ask me. Wouldn't it be better to ask the user for a password?
[12:41] <godbyk> TommyBrunn: If you wanted to be somewhat sneaky, you could copy the user's hashed password and use their same password for the new account.
[12:41] <godbyk> But that opens a small security risk in that there are two accounts using the same password.
[12:42] <TommyBrunn> Yes. I think that if the user is intent on using the same password, he or she would just have to enter the same password. Either way, it's better than having a password that is known to the world.
[12:42] <godbyk> So instead of having to guess your username *and* password, I can (perhaps, if the program is super popular) assume that there's a quickshot user and then just test against the passwords.
[12:42] <godbyk> Agreed.
[12:42] <thorwil> godbyk: nope, all about fonts. check http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Et-w-/%2Bjunk/ubuntu_manual_cover/download/head%3A/font_test_sans_conve-20100216121920-clj4bpv5zzzqe172-1/font_test_sans_converted.pdf
[12:42] <godbyk> 'kay.
[12:43] <godbyk> thorwil: When you get some more of that spare time, do you want to try to get inkscape to deal with the transparency or gradients or whatever its problem is with the cover page?  (See the lynx's nose, for instance.)
[12:44] <thorwil> godbyk: i'll deal with it once the same problems arive with a design that might be the final
[12:45] <godbyk> thorwil: Fair enough.
[12:46] <godbyk> Okay, I'm off to bed.  (It's 7 a.m. here.)
[13:12]  * dutchie wonders what the ebong latex package does
[13:14] <ubuntujenkins> its a strange game of pong :P
[18:07] <dutchie> \o/ TL 2009 is installed
[18:08] <ubuntujenkins> does it work though?
[18:09] <dutchie> yep
[18:10] <ubuntujenkins> cool I might have to have a go just want to see what it looks like in other languages
[18:10] <dutchie> it takes a while
[18:10] <dutchie> it's about a 2.5G download
[18:11] <ubuntujenkins> thats fine about half an hour
[18:11] <ubuntujenkins> unistall everything in synaptic right?
[18:11] <dutchie> yep
[18:12] <ubuntujenkins> I have the 2009 set in lucid, I think I will as god bk before I start though
[18:13] <dutchie> if you've got it in lucid, surely just installing texlive-full should do the trick
[18:14]  * ubuntujenkins tries
[18:26]  * dutchie tries building a localised version
[18:35] <dutchie> godbyk: ping
[18:35] <ubuntujenkins> dutchie I get an error that looks similar to ko msas had yesterday.
[18:35] <dutchie> fonts?
[18:35] <ubuntujenkins> yes
[18:35] <dutchie> same here
[18:36] <ubuntujenkins> I am reading yesterdays logs
[18:39] <TommyBrunn> Anyone have Benjamin's email address? He gave it to me, but I promptly forgot it, as always.
[18:40] <TommyBrunn> Nevermind, found it on Launchpad.
[18:47] <ubuntujenkins> komsas did you fix your problem yesterday? dut chie and I are trying to compile it in other languages
[18:48] <komsas> yes, but now I need more fonts.
[18:49] <ubuntujenkins> I have a font error as well we shall have to ask god byk
[18:51] <komsas> what kind of font u need?
[18:52] <ubuntujenkins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/377806/ is the error
[18:52] <cjohnston> Has the schedule for the 48 hours thing been finalized?
[18:53] <dutchie> not yet
[18:53] <dutchie> am I being poked to do so?
[18:53] <cjohnston> I'm wanting to add it to the calendar.. so the sooner the better
[18:53] <dutchie> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/48hours is what we have so far
[18:54] <komsas> ubuntujenkins: my error like yours
[18:55] <cjohnston> dutchie: when you do get it finalized, ping me and ill put it on the calendar
[18:55] <ubuntujenkins> I couldn't find your error to compare
[18:55] <dutchie> cjohnston: sure
[18:55] <cjohnston> ty
[18:56] <komsas> http://paste.ubuntu.com/377810/ ubuntujenkins
[18:57] <ubuntujenkins> thanks komas I think I might have found the package to fix it
[19:01] <ubuntujenkins> nope no luck
[19:19] <komsas> I don't think that we need Gautami font, http://www.microsoft.com/typography/Fonts/family.aspx?FID=238 I commened that lines where is it.
[22:09] <ubuntujenkins> komsas did commenting that line mean that iti compiles?
[22:10] <ubuntujenkins> *it
[22:13] <komsas> no, it means that make will skip that line.
[22:15] <ubuntujenkins> does that create another error then? I can't solve it, there are so many packages that it could be.
[22:24] <komsas> yes I get another errors, but I commented that lines with unnecessary fonts. Now make works smoothly.
[22:24] <godbyk> dutchie: pong
[22:24] <godbyk> (Haven't read the backlog yet, though)
[22:27] <dutchie> godbyk: fonts are b0rk3d
[22:27] <dutchie> for me, komsas and ubuntujenkins
[22:27] <dutchie> all on 2009
[22:27] <ubuntujenkins> I am using lucid so have 2009 by  already
[22:28] <godbyk> dutchie: fonts aren't borked, you just don't have all of 'em installed. :-)
[22:28] <dutchie> well, yeah
[22:28] <godbyk> for the time being, you can play around by commenting out all the fonts that aren't required for the specific language you're compiling.
[22:29] <godbyk> I'm going to restructure that code a bit so that you don't have to have *all* the fonts installed -- just the ones needed for the language you're compiling.
[22:29] <godbyk> Until then, you'll have to comment them out (or install the fonts).
[22:30] <ubuntujenkins> can you give a list of the fonts? If you can't it doesn't matter I am just doing it to see what my writing looks like in other languages.
[22:31] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: The fonts are listed in the ubuntu-manual.cls file.  See the lines starting with \newfontfamily.
[22:32] <godbyk> It also tells you where I found each of the fonts (what package or website).
[22:32] <godbyk> To further make your lives difficult, I haven't settled on any of the fonts yet either. :-)
[22:32] <ubuntujenkins> ok thanks godbyk I will have a look
[22:49] <ubuntujenkins> night
[22:55] <godbyk> hey, dutchie..  am I allowed to directly edit the po/*.po files?
[22:55] <godbyk> some of them have typos that prevent latex from compiling the doc.
[22:56] <dutchie> godbyk: if you avoid breaking them and angering the translators
[22:56] <godbyk> dutchie: heh.. I'll try.
[22:57] <godbyk> ah, man.  we should've had these training sessions before people started translating..
[22:58] <godbyk> some of them have translated the LaTeX commands (like \button, \application, etc.)
[22:58] <dutchie> do you want me to cover that?
[22:58] <dutchie> I hadn't been expecting to tbh
[22:58] <dutchie> I was going to go fairly nuts-and-bolts
[23:00] <godbyk> Well, I'm wondering what you, Ilya, and Jamin are going to be covering (and what I'm going to be left with).
[23:01] <godbyk> Basically, I need someone to let me know what they want me to cover and what others will be covering. :-)
[23:01] <dutchie> personally, I was going to say this is a .pot file, this a .po file, this is how you translate, and this is how I integrate it
[23:01] <dutchie> hi humphreybc
[23:02] <godbyk> dutchie: gotcha.
[23:02] <godbyk> I was going to cover what latex code looks like and the specific commands we have for our manual.
[23:02] <humphreybc> hey dutchie
[23:02] <dutchie> should be able to stretch that out over an hour
[23:03] <humphreybc> just checking in real quickly before i catch my flight
[23:03] <godbyk> and make some notes for translators -- what to translate, what to leave as-is.
[23:04] <dutchie> humphreybc: now sign off and chill out
[23:06] <dutchie> humphreybc: I hope you left your laptop at home
[23:07] <humphreybc> dutchie: i'm taking it with me, but only because i'll be at home after i go on holiday
[23:07] <humphreybc> so inadvertantly... i'll try not to use it xD
[23:08] <humphreybc> dutchie godbyk and Ilya, you guys are in charge, have fun!
[23:08] <dutchie> oh no, responsibility
[23:08] <dutchie> :(
[23:08] <dutchie> I think I should go to bed
[23:08] <godbyk> w00t!  party time!
[23:08] <humphreybc> haha
[23:08] <humphreybc> also when the times are confirmed, someone tell #ubuntu-classroom-backstage
[23:08] <humphreybc> and email the learning team ML
[23:09] <humphreybc> laters!
[23:17] <dutchie> night
[23:18] <godbyk> dutchie: night.


[00:09] <doctormo> BiosElement: Hey there
[00:09] <doctormo> BiosElement: I've looked over your branch, shall we talk?
[00:10] <pleia2> I made a pretty picture!
[00:10] <pleia2> BiosElement: you're welcome to share with doctormo
[00:16] <doctormo> pleia2: Hey, my connection is spotty, can you read this?
[00:16] <pleia2> doctormo: yeah
[00:17] <doctormo> pleia2: Great, so you made a picture?
[00:17] <pleia2> http://princessleia.com/ul/asciidocs.txt
[00:17] <pleia2> compares current two asciidoc proposals
[00:19] <BiosElement> Ahh, hey there doctormo. Didn't notice you come in
[00:20] <doctormo> pleia2: The first is doctormo's, nigel is only working off my example.
[00:20] <pleia2> oh yeah
[00:20] <doctormo> (don't want to drag him in unless he wants to)
[00:20] <BiosElement> We were more refering to just examples of the course.
[00:20]  * pleia2 fixes
[00:20] <doctormo> Ah ok,
[00:21] <BiosElement> pleia2: Fix supplime while you're at it pretty please >.>
[00:21] <pleia2> but the word is too long!
[00:21] <pleia2> okok :)
[00:21] <doctormo> BiosElement: So I get the view that in your example we have /$CLASS/content.txt
[00:21] <BiosElement> haha, I know it is.
[00:21] <BiosElement> doctormo: We have Category/$CLASS/content.txt yes
[00:22]  * pleia2 fixed
[00:22] <BiosElement> Just like your format does
[00:22] <doctormo> BiosElement: And in mine we have /$SECTION/$CLASS/sections/$X/...
[00:22] <BiosElement> Aye.
[00:22] <doctormo> BiosElement: Your branch I just looked at didn't have sections (categories)
[00:22] <doctormo> So I guess the main point to talk about
[00:22] <BiosElement> doctormo: True. It was added as a recent suggestion by pleia2.
[00:23] <doctormo> is why I think the juxterposition of the section content is required
[00:24] <BiosElement> Sounds right.
[00:26] <doctormo> Basically we have a view that says that the content we serve to users who are learning by themselves is different from the content that is lead by the teachers.
[00:27] <doctormo> I believe that by splitting up each section into 4 parts, we can use auto generated content.txt files to compile them into the 2 or 3 flavours which will serve each of these targets.
[00:27] <doctormo> Without having to rewrite every course for online, offline and teacher lead sessions.
[00:27] <doctormo> (which is the problem dinda has, and why she's not keen on being involved any more)
[00:29] <BiosElement> I think the purpose of my content/supplemental folders have confused you. They're not meant to be re-writing the entire course, just the supplemental "book" will have more information for teachers. for example, what to demo, tips on explaining it, faq's and so forth. THings that may not be very useful to someone learning on their own.
[00:29] <doctormo> I don't want to write books.
[00:29] <BiosElement> "book" for lack of a better term.
[00:29] <doctormo> document?
[00:29] <BiosElement> Aye, document.
[00:30] <doctormo> The problem with this view is that it assumes that the _form_ the student content takes is the same regardless of target, it assumes that only supplimental teacher information is required.
[00:30] <doctormo> I don't believe that's the case.
[00:32] <BiosElement> Not sure I entirely follow you. I gather you mean making different 'flavors' of the document. It seems a little overly complex but then again I don't understand what gain there would be.
[00:32] <cprofitt> doctormo -- pedagogy is different for the mediums.
[00:33] <doctormo> cprofitt: So I'm lead to believe, text, way it's written, even the kinds of words used.
[00:34] <cprofitt> I also agree with BiosElement that we need to have a 'teachers guide' in addition to any 'student' material for teacher lead courses
[00:34] <doctormo> cprofitt: That's agreeing with me
[00:35] <cprofitt> asynchronous and synchronous learning also requires different strategies
[00:35] <BiosElement> cprofitt: Well that is quite true. But I disagree that it's needed. There is no reason a teacher cannot effectively teach from a document aimed at someone learning themselves. Heck, schools do it all the time. Not to say that it's the best example. Again my point may be wrong but I don't seem to be alone in sharing it.
[00:35] <cprofitt> BiosElement: actually the schools I work in do not... there is always a teachers manual unless the teacher developed the curriculum themselves
[00:36] <doctormo> BiosElement: I disagree, I've taught classes and while I'm not an experenced teacher, it's easier to teach along a lesson plan, than a book.
[00:36] <BiosElement> cprofitt: Teachers manual, yes. But even then not always.
[00:36] <BiosElement> Ok...perhaps I've confused you...the format I'm working on does have a teacher doc...
[00:36] <BiosElement> And it's had one from day one.
[00:37] <doctormo> BiosElement: I know, I just don't think it buds at the right place, it forces forking at really low levels, reuse of sections will be hard, even with different descriptive texts.
[00:39] <BiosElement> But wouldn't it be useful to have a teacher doc with "teachers notes" along with the "students document"? Because that's not a problem with either format. I don't see why "reuse" would be difficult.
[00:39] <cprofitt> BiosElement: I do not know ascii doc well enough but I would think having both would be a good thing
[00:40] <BiosElement> cprofitt: It's easily possible.
[00:42] <doctormo> BiosElement: Aye, but in my design the course writer is forced to consider writing notes for every section, when new sections are added, the teachers doc can not be forgotten. In a system where the teachers doc is very seperate, it'll cause them to get out of sync.
[00:42] <pleia2> doctormo: are you seeing this as a workflow issue?
[00:42] <pleia2> having to change to a different directory to put in your teachers doc too, easy to forget...
[00:44] <BiosElement> Another arguement could be that the main document shouldn't be overly relient on the teachers docs. Note that this is not to say they should be neglected. Another thought is that I don't think it would always be wise to write the docs at the same time regardless. And even if someone wanted too, would it be too hard to have two folders open? >.>
[00:44] <doctormo> pleia2: I can't tell if your being critical of structure 2 or misunderstanding structure 1.
[00:44] <pleia2> doctormo: I am misunderstanding all of this, apparently :)
[00:45] <BiosElement> pleia2: I think we're all misunderstanding things today >.>
[00:45] <pleia2> I was being critical of structure 2 though
[00:45] <doctormo> BiosElement: What I'm trying to breed is a sense that each section in a class-subject is treated as it's own whole little part, modular, put together they can form a class.
[00:46] <pleia2> (sorry BiosElement)
[00:46] <doctormo> This means that a writer can go in, write or rewrite one tiny section and not have to worry about the rest of the course/class/etc
[00:46] <pleia2> also means they can bzr checkout just that tiny bit
[00:47] <pleia2> no worries about conflict if someone is working on 04/ and you're working on 07/
[00:47] <pleia2> right?
[00:47] <doctormo> pleia2: correct,
[00:47] <doctormo> pleia2: It means that merging is less of a problem
[00:48] <BiosElement> doctormo: While I strongly agree that keeping things modular is good, I think it's a little much to focus on it so much. I don't see a huge need to mix/match when for the most part only the very basics will be shared between courses. Although again I note that I may be mistaken.
[00:48] <BiosElement> And as for merging...how is folder 04 different then sec04.txt >.< For that at least, it's neutral ground.
[00:49] <doctormo> BiosElement: Agreed
[00:49] <pleia2> BiosElement: well you'd have examples/sec04.txt and content/section04.txt
[00:49] <pleia2> you can't just check out content/04/
[00:49] <pleia2> I mean, in yours
[00:49] <BiosElement> pleia2: bazaar shouldn't care either way. And why would you want to...It seems kinda pointless.
[00:50] <pleia2> BiosElement: for the leadership document, for example, I could see members of the community running that only checking out the chapters they're assigned to
[00:51] <pleia2> rather than the whole /$SECTION/$CLASS/
[00:52] <BiosElement> Um...perhaps I've missed something but why would be assign people chapters? And regardless, you couldn't test compiles very well without the rest of the chapters.
[00:53] <pleia2> not every course has to be written by one person
[00:53] <doctormo> pleia2: The best way to map it is that in structure 1 you have $section/$class/sections/$x/description.txt and in structure 2 you have $section/$class/description/$x.txt
[00:54] <doctormo> I could remove the sections directory from structure 1 and leave only the sort of the data as the remaining issue.
[00:54] <BiosElement> pleia2: Of course not
[00:54] <pleia2> BiosElement: so that's why different people would work on different chapters
[00:54] <pleia2> my brain hurts :)
[00:55] <BiosElement> It's important people test it before uploading. But if that wasn't important I would admit there was an advantage.
[00:55] <pleia2> and I don't think I'm helping here, can I leave it to you two to hash this out?
[00:56] <BiosElement> Sure, get feeling better pleia2.
[00:56] <pleia2> I don't care which we end up with, as long as it's documented :)
[00:56] <doctormo> pleia2: I think your helping :-)
[00:56] <BiosElement> haha, Well you are helping but you gotta get feeling better to help later >.>
[00:56] <doctormo> pleia2: Your sick?
[00:56] <pleia2> doctormo: yeah, terrible cold, now on antibiotics which are destroying my stomach
[00:56] <pleia2> it's been a terrible week!
[00:57]  * pleia2 is very glad she works from home
[00:58] <pleia2> going to go relax a bit, I'm glad this discussion is happening, thanks guys :)
[00:58]  * pleia2 hugs all around!
[00:58]  * doctormo hugs pleia2
[00:58]  * BiosElement hugs pleia2 also
[00:59] <doctormo> BiosElement: OK, how does this sound, I scrap the sections directory, move all $x dirs into the $class dir, remove all the parent asciidocs and replace them with auto generating files upon build.
[01:00] <doctormo> It'll reduce the number of files to edit, simplify it all round and the scripts should be trival.
[01:01] <doctormo> I'll keep the presentations dir, we'll sort that out later.
[01:02] <doctormo> resources dir just contains any files that aren't built, just copied in, things like example script files, pdfs that we didn't make etc.
[01:02] <BiosElement> It sounds good, but here's a question: would it be easier just to dump the supplemental folders from my layout and do the numbered section folders inside content? Just thinking it migh be less work
[01:03] <BiosElement> Because overall I do like that style, as long as sections are not micro-sized. >.>
[01:03] <doctormo> You end up with the same thing, same work, the only difference is that you end up with the join at a slightly higher pivit which can be used better for scripting and for modular control.
[01:04] <doctormo> The other thing to consider, is that what ever ideas you try out in your branch, I'll be applying them to trunk, think about how to modify trunk to apply your ideas, not just dropping it.
[01:04] <BiosElement> dropping what? trunk? Of course not. >.< Everything can be ported over easily enough
[01:05] <doctormo> Other than that, we're talking about bringing them into the same structure from two different angles.
[01:05] <doctormo> BiosElement: no porting, modification of existing trunk, not wiping out directories and porting your branch into it, that's exactly the same.
[01:06] <doctormo> So intructions to modify existing stuff, a) do this, b) move that c) etc.
[01:06] <BiosElement> Ahh, I think I understand. haha. Well I just made a final commit "backup" per-say. so I'm going to start reformatting my course template now. I'll then toss it over to you and see what changes need made.
[01:07] <BiosElement> I'm the one who pushed for it anyway, so I'm more then happy to do the work. haha
[01:08] <doctormo> Aye aye, well at least I'm confident that all this talk is producing real results :-)
[01:08] <BiosElement> It is. We just have somewhat different styles. haha
[01:11] <doctormo> BiosElement: That's good, we're able to combine them :-D
[01:11] <BiosElement> haha, quite true
[01:11] <doctormo> I have to sleep now, got a train to cach in the morning
[01:11] <BiosElement> Aight, Night doctormo
[01:11] <doctormo> But I'll work on build-get scripts on the train and tomorrow, try and get something interesting.
[01:11] <BiosElement> haha, Sounds good
[01:15] <cprofitt> sorry -- I got distracted guys
[01:17] <BiosElement> cprofitt: Not a problem.
[01:18] <BiosElement> I just pushed the recent update, based on the discussion, to launchpad. As soon as it's done updating I'll post the link.
[01:19] <cprofitt> I read back... it does sound like we made progress...
[01:19] <BiosElement> cprofitt doctormo pleia2: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~williamchambers/ubuntu-learning-materials/asciidoc_format-v2/revision/14
[01:19] <BiosElement> We did.
[01:19] <cprofitt> I am not very familiar with Bzr or Asciidoc so I can't truly appreciate the technical details.
[01:20] <cprofitt> Python... that will help
[01:21] <cprofitt> does asciidoc allow for 'sections' in the text that can be 'excluded' or 'included' in producing the output based on arguments?
[01:24] <cprofitt> the bzr is looking rather self-explanatory
[01:24] <doctormo> cprofitt: that's good, it means it's working.
[01:25] <doctormo> BiosElement: Do you know if sections can be included or exluded? atm I'm going to do this via scripting of the combination of each part into the whole document.
[01:26] <BiosElement> cprofitt doctormo: Yes
[01:26] <BiosElement> In fact I'm including them manually from the core/content.txt file
[01:27] <BiosElement> doctormo: One thing to note with the include statement is you MUST have a blank line between each include statement.
[01:27] <doctormo> BiosElement: If you can show me how to pull that off, email the mailing list with an example or something, then i can work that mechanism in.
[01:28] <BiosElement> doctormo: It already exists.http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Ewilliamchambers/ubuntu-learning-materials/asciidoc_format-v2/annotate/head%3A/Contributing/UCLP/content.txt
[01:28] <BiosElement> It shouldn't be hard to scriptit.
[01:29] <cprofitt> so we can have a document -- single -- with both teacher notes and student content
[01:29] <doctormo> BiosElement: Wait, the ability to include or exclude sections is using the "include" statement, same as I'm already doing?
[01:29] <cprofitt> by splitting them in to sections we can control what is 'compiled' in to the 'output'?
[01:29] <doctormo> cprofitt: We should end up with one publication which includes everything all in one, and another with it spread out between files.
[01:29] <BiosElement> doctormo: Aye. It's kinda a workaround but I've just been manually including them. asciidoc by default only works one file at a time.
[01:30] <cprofitt> and you have a single text file that controls that?
[01:30] <doctormo> BiosElement: Then I'm already using the best way to do this :-) good good.
[01:30] <cprofitt> sounds like a working plan
[01:30] <doctormo> cprofitt: That single file would basically be generated by scripts from a template.
[01:30] <BiosElement> cprofitt: Yes
[01:30] <doctormo> At build time
[01:31] <BiosElement> doctormo: Whenever you get a chance lookover the edit I did to the new class template too. I doubt I got all the changes made the first time around. But I've gotta get going and you need sleep >.<
[01:31] <doctormo> Yes, good, email me!
[03:25] <nigel_nb> hello guys
[03:34] <b_wilson> nigel_nb: 'lo
[05:09] <nigel_nb> pleia2: are you around?
[19:42] <nigel_nb> hello everyone
[19:44] <nigel_nb> pleia2: did u get time to review my branch?
[19:45] <pleia2> nigel_nb: yeah, no tech review so far though
[19:46] <pleia2> doctormo and bioselement are discussing format some
[19:46] <nigel_nb> writing style and language?
[19:46] <nigel_nb> I just did a guesswork of a format
[19:46] <nigel_nb> since I'm the official guinea pig :P, I hope they straight it out with this branch
[19:47] <nigel_nb> I checked my logs, doctormo told me to leave the format alone since it has to be straightened out when they convert this branch
[19:48] <pleia2> seems fine, but I think there are too many sections
[19:48] <pleia2> I think some of the basic bzr stuff could all be put into one section, instead of split up so much since they can't really stand alone
[19:49] <nigel_nb> but the practical and demonstration might be a bit too long
[19:50] <nigel_nb> I sorta took an example from doctormo's command-line basics
[19:50] <nigel_nb> most of it is practical based, one step at a time
[19:54] <nigel_nb> pleia2: btw, I'm going to merge intro to launchpad and working with launchpad into one section
[19:54] <nigel_nb> so it'll be down to 8
[19:55]  * pleia2 nods
[19:55] <nigel_nb> i did the intro
[19:56] <nigel_nb> and didn't find anything to put in working :P
[20:03] <nigel_nb> I'll try to finish everything before the meeting
[20:03] <nigel_nb> so, it will give sometime to review everytinh
[20:07] <pleia2> great :)
[20:08] <nigel_nb> I'm off 2morrow nite
[20:08] <nigel_nb> so, my social life on sunday night will be on IRC
[20:10] <pleia2> oh! I mailed your card today
[20:10] <pleia2> hopefully it'll get there :)
[20:11] <nigel_nb> oh
[20:11] <nigel_nb> I should get around to doing it on monday
[20:13] <nigel_nb> pleia2: just curious, how many cards did u send out?
[20:13] <pleia2> nigel_nb: probably about 35
[20:14] <pleia2> 6 international
[20:14] <nigel_nb> wow!
[20:15] <pleia2> that's pretty normal :)
[21:48] <nigel_nb> pleia2: just saw the logs of the discussion, do u have any idea what was decided on format?
[21:54] <nigel_nb> doctormo: ping
[21:54] <doctormo> nigel_nb: pong
[21:54] <nigel_nb> just saw logs from last night
[21:54] <nigel_nb> what did u guys decide about format?
[21:55] <doctormo> nigel_nb: It's still very close to what you have, but sections are moved into parent folder.
[21:55] <nigel_nb> no sub folder for sections
[21:55] <nigel_nb> and each file gets numbered indendently?
[21:58] <doctormo> nigel_nb: Each file still goes in a directory number
[21:58] <nigel_nb> i'm still confused
[21:59] <doctormo> so instead of sections/01/description.txt it's just 01/description.txt
[21:59] <nigel_nb> thats messy
[21:59] <doctormo> nigel_nb: Not really, some of the other files are being removed and will be auto generated instead.
[22:00] <nigel_nb> like?
[22:00] <doctormo> nigel_nb: All the root text files, class.txt etc
[22:00] <nigel_nb> whoa
[22:00] <nigel_nb> how does that happen?
[22:02] <doctormo> nigel_nb: scripts
[22:03] <nigel_nb> they're ready?
[22:03] <doctormo> nigel_nb: I worked on them all day
[22:03] <doctormo> but no, I got sick
[22:04] <nigel_nb> oh no!
[22:04] <nigel_nb> you too
[22:07] <nigel_nb> doctormo: do we guys get to see the scripts to test our modules?
[22:07] <doctormo> nigel_nb: yes
[22:08] <nigel_nb> ooooo
[22:08] <nigel_nb> when?
[22:09] <doctormo> pushing now
[22:09] <doctormo> pushed rev 12 in trunk, check it out
[22:09] <nigel_nb> aw heck
[22:09] <nigel_nb> at work
[22:09] <nigel_nb> have to check it out from lp directly
[22:09] <doctormo> in your own time
[22:10] <nigel_nb> I wanna see it now! ;)
[22:10] <nigel_nb> otherwise, i can see it only tonight
[22:10] <nigel_nb> thats like 12 hours away
[22:10] <doctormo> lol, you know how to do it in "your own time" ;-)
[22:11] <nigel_nb> hehe
[22:13] <nigel_nb> doctormo: the builder folder?
[22:16] <nigel_nb> doctormo: looking good, I'll explore tonight
[22:17] <nigel_nb> you'll need to update me on what all changes I have to make


[10:24] <bryce_> jcristau, tjaalton:  I just got a response from intel that they're no longer going to support 81x any longer
[10:24] <bryce_> http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16729
[10:42] <tseliot> bryce: what is the file that does the hardware detection when no driver is specified in the Device section of the xorg.conf?
[10:45] <tseliot>  bryce:  if no driver is specified I should detect which driver is loaded for the xorg-options editor
[10:46] <bryce_> you'll need to parse that from the Xorg.0.log
[10:46] <bryce_> I don't know of any reliable way to determine that otherwise
[10:47] <bryce_> hm, or maybe you could look up the pci id in /usr/share/xserver-xorg/pci/
[10:57] <tseliot> bryce_: ok, thanks I'll look up the pci id then
[11:16] <tjaalton> bryce_: bah, thypical
[11:16] <tjaalton> -h
[11:21] <bryce_> heya tjaalton
[11:32] <tseliot> bryce_: hardware detection works well now ;)
[11:33] <bryce_> tseliot: nice
[11:33] <jcristau> looking in /usr/share/xserver-xorg/pci/ is probably not future proof
[11:34] <bryce_> tseliot: btw, I added a brief blurb about the status of -nvidia to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Drivers .  When you get a chance it would be nice if you could flesh it out a bit more (not too detailed, but a paragraph or two would be sufficient, and links to more info would be great)
[11:34] <tseliot> bryce_: ok, I'll do it
[11:35] <tseliot> jcristau: what do you suggest then?
[11:35] <jcristau> i don't know why you need that info for
[11:36] <jcristau> also, what's with the BOMs
[11:37] <tseliot> jcristau: I'm writing xorg-options-editor and if no device section is available (or if the device section is available but the driver is not specified) I have to rely on xorg's autodetection
[11:37] <jcristau> right
[11:38] <tseliot> BOMs???
[11:38] <tseliot> and why isn't it future-proof?
[11:39] <jcristau> yes, U+FEFF. there's one at the beginning of every one of your lines.
[11:39] <jcristau> or, almost every one
[11:39] <jcristau> it's not future proof because it'll probably go away at some point
[11:40] <tseliot> jcristau: U+FEFF??? I'm a bit confused by acronyms
[11:41] <jcristau> it's an unicode codepoint
[11:41] <jcristau> so whatever you use for irc is broken and puts that everywhere
[11:42] <tseliot> I can't notice the problem here, using pidgin on Hardy
[11:42] <tseliot> tjaalton reported a similar problem though
[12:33] <tseliot> bryce_: I have updated the wiki. I might do something more later
[12:44] <bryce_> tseliot: excellent thanks
[13:33] <bryce_> tseliot: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=xorg_driver_persistent&num=1
[14:04] <tseliot> bryce_: yes, I had also read the discussion in the X mailing list. When (or "if") they come to an agreement I can modify xorg-options-editor accordingly
[14:05] <jcristau> err. maybe we haven't read the same discussion then. what more agreement do you need?
[14:07] <tseliot> "To make it persistent, Dan Nicholson had chimed in asking whether GConf or HAL fdi should be used for storing these device property values."
[14:08] <jcristau> and the answer was hal for system-wide defaults, gconf for user-specific, iirc?
[14:09] <bryce_> tseliot: great, sounds good.  Since it sounds like an xserver 1.6 thing, I guess we can look into that for Intrepid+1
[14:12] <tseliot> bryce_: ok, I'll think about it when it's (almost) ready then
[18:35] <BUGabundo> his Alberto Milone arround?
[18:37] <BUGabundo> his = is lol
[19:58] <mario_limonciell> tseliot, other than the fact that "debian has it", is there a reason that we have an init script for /etc/init.d/nvidia-kernel?
[19:58] <mario_limonciell> i'm very surprised that something like this wouldn't be handled directly by the kernel module when loaded
[19:59] <mario_limonciell> yeah actually it looks like it is done by the kernel module.  try stopping X, then "rm /dev/nvidia*" and then sudo X
[19:59] <mario_limonciell> you'll see that those modules are created for you
[19:59] <mario_limonciell> or devnodes i should say
[20:04] <mario_limonciell> well i filed a bug for now, bug 249565
[20:30] <tseliot> mario_limonciell: thanks, I'll have a look at it later
[20:30] <mario_limonciell> tseliot, i filed another bug about the init script for nvidia-glx too
[20:30] <tseliot> link?
[20:30] <mario_limonciell> tseliot, and it's existence makes me uneasy (in addition to the bug) since it just goes mucking around /usr/ like that
[20:30] <mario_limonciell> but that's not what i filed the bug about
[20:31] <mario_limonciell> sec
[20:31] <mario_limonciell> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-173/+bug/249566
[20:32] <mario_limonciell> the reason i'm uneasy about that second init script existing, what if someone mounts /usr over NFS read only?  You can't assume that you are able to go and change things in there
[20:35] <tseliot> mario_limonciell: whatever it is (my connection seems to have some problem now) I will fix it. Don't worry ;)
[20:42] <tseliot> mario_limonciell: what version and revision of the driver are you using?
[20:42] <tseliot> I removed /etc/init.d/nvidia-glx a few releases ago
[20:43] <mario_limonciell> tseliot, then it must have come from dist-upgrading then
[20:43] <mario_limonciell> let me purge all versions and do a fresher install
[20:43] <tseliot> mario_limonciell: ok
[20:44] <mario_limonciell> tseliot, it wasn't around in hardy right?  so people who do hardy_>intrepid jump won't end up with it
[20:44] <mario_limonciell> i probably just have it from an earlier use of your packages updated to a newer version
[20:46] <mario_limonciell> tseliot, ah yeah neither of those appear to be present in the final ones :)
[20:47] <mario_limonciell> you don't need /etc/default/nvidia-glx-### though anymore then either
[20:47] <mario_limonciell> which is still present after i purged and reinstalled
[20:47] <tseliot> /etc/default/nvidia-glx-### ???
[20:48] <tseliot> it's not in my packages
[20:48] <mario_limonciell> i have an /etc/default/nvidia-glx-177 somehow?
[20:48] <mario_limonciell> i purged all nvidia-* and reinstalled and saw it there
[20:48] <mario_limonciell> i'll purge once more to ensure though
[20:49] <tseliot> remove it manually
[20:49] <tseliot> that was from TLS
[20:49] <tseliot> which I removed
[20:50] <mario_limonciell> no it definitely came in from nvidia-glx-177
[20:50] <mario_limonciell> when i installed that
[20:50] <mario_limonciell> it's in it's package listing (dpkg -L nvidia-glx-177)
[20:51] <tseliot> which revision?
[20:51] <tseliot> ubuntu5?
[20:53] <mario_limonciell> ubuntu6
[20:58] <tseliot> mario_limonciell: do a "dpkg --contents name_of_the_package" please
[20:58] <tseliot> don't rely too much on dpkg -L
[21:00] <mario_limonciell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/28113/
[21:00] <mario_limonciell> yeah it's in there
[21:02] <tseliot> mario_limonciell: 173 is not affected though. Weird. Let me check the code
[21:11] <tseliot> mario_limonciell: there's no trace of such files in the rules, however I have noticed that I had left nvidia-glx-VER.default files in the debian folder of each driver apart from 173. I have removed such files and I'm rebuilding the packages
[21:12] <mario_limonciell> ah
[21:12] <mario_limonciell> yeah that's most likely how it ended up there
[21:13] <mario_limonciell> tseliot, i was thinking of something useful that you might consider putting into EnvyNG at some point
[21:13] <tseliot> shoot
[21:13] <mario_limonciell> the ability to grab the source of the nvidia-drivers-$LATEST, and for the user to provide the .run file from the nvidia website
[21:13] <mario_limonciell> and let it spit out a package in case they aren't out and ready yet in backports etc
[21:14] <mario_limonciell> so really it would just craft the orig.tar.gz from the run file and then bump the changelog and version inside the debian packaging temporarily
[21:16] <tseliot> mario_limonciell: I could do that but I don't think the other devs/motus would be extremely happy about this
[21:17] <tseliot> since they wanted EnvyNG to install only packages from the official repos
[21:17] <mario_limonciell> well i mean as long as it always used the source from the archive to build these newer packages
[21:17] <mario_limonciell> it could be a temporarily solution
[21:17] <mario_limonciell> think of it as the same model that is in the AMD drivers now
[21:17] <mario_limonciell> that the source of the debian/ directory is contained and you get the same drivers if you install from AMD's website as you do if you install from the archive
[21:18] <mario_limonciell> just since NVIDIA doesn't provide such a system, you fill the gap with envyng
[21:19] <mario_limonciell> it's just an idea to think about at least
[21:23] <tseliot> mario_limonciell: I'm not saying that it's a bad idea. I would like to keep both users and devs happy, that's all.
[21:23] <tseliot> I'll think about it
[21:23] <mario_limonciell> tseliot, remember too that you'll never make all the devs happy.  it's a closed driver ;)
[21:25] <tseliot> heh
[21:26] <tseliot> mario_limonciell: it is also true that if a firm such as Dell needed this feature, I would give it more than a thought :-P
[21:26] <mario_limonciell> haha
[21:26] <mario_limonciell> well when we receive beta drivers from nvidia, it's easy enough to manually do these sorts of things
[21:27] <tseliot> too bad ;)
[21:40] <tseliot> mario_limonciell: ok, problem solved with the packages. The files in /etc/default couldn't do anything bad but there was no need to keep them there.
[21:41] <mario_limonciell> yeah
[21:41] <mario_limonciell> well they were doing bad when i had init scripts sitting around still
[21:42] <mario_limonciell> but since those are gone, they didn't do anything anymore