[01:22] <diddledan> oh, new linuxvoice podcast
[01:22]  * diddledan listens
[03:38] <diddledan> so leap seconds. Is there a project out-there that does the googley smear?
[04:05] <shauno> I think the googley smear actually sounds more dangerous
[04:06] <shauno> it works for google because they dictate the entire chain, and customize at-will
[04:06] <shauno> and have the resources to test, test, and test again at scale
[04:07] <shauno> but like, for you and I running 2 or 3 boxes at home.  we can't (or don't have the resources) make our ntp servers lie like that
[04:08] <shauno> so you get stuff like what behaviour do you expect if the system's been "smearing" all day and then the ntp servers issue a leap indicator
[04:08] <diddledan> we need a smearscan
[04:08] <shauno> or do you expect 3 machines to smear in unison if the ntp server isn't doing it
[04:09] <diddledan> I found this tho: https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/time/utc-sls/
[04:11] <shauno> I suspect it's solving the wrong problem though
[04:11] <shauno> we really should be able to expect stuff to handle the standard without exploding
[04:12] <diddledan> I would suggest that human time be considered separately from computer time and have conversions rather than having the whole computer world rely on inaccurate numbers
[04:13] <shauno> I mean, planes don't drop out of the sky every feb 29th.  the only real difference is that we remember to take one into account, but not the other
[04:13] <diddledan> I like the idea of TAI
[04:14] <shauno> if someone suggested we 'solve' leap years by making most the days in february 25 hours long, you'd laugh them out of the room
[04:14] <diddledan> true
[04:15] <diddledan> TBH I don't really understand why leapseconds are so dangerous
[04:15] <diddledan> as you say, we do it with an entire day in februaru
[04:15] <shauno> it's just much easier to forget they exist
[04:16] <shauno> as far as I can tell it's really that simple.  things that need to take it into account didn't.  and now we don't trust anything to get it right
[04:17] <shauno> almost entirely unrelated, our (physical) access system at work still doesn't grok DST
[04:17] <diddledan> lol
[04:18] <diddledan> how does that effect things?
[04:18] <diddledan> affect*
[04:18] <shauno> I'm allowed in the building after 5:30am.  which means one day a year, I can't let myself in for a 6am shift
[04:18] <diddledan> lol
[04:18] <diddledan> fun
[04:19] <diddledan> time limits on staff seems craycray to me
[04:19] <shauno> so sunday morning security let us in manually, monday morning they just unlock everything at 6am, and sometime monday someone changes the clock on the system, and things go back to normal
[04:19] <diddledan> if you're in the building after the timelock of re-entry does it refuse to let you out?
[04:19] <shauno> no, they can't lock us in
[04:20] <shauno> there's all kinds of fire issues with that :)
[04:20] <diddledan> bah
[04:20] <diddledan> fire shmire
[04:20] <shauno> I just find it an interesting parallel because it's basically the same problem
[04:20] <diddledan> they should make you burn
[04:21] <shauno> DST existed before the system was built, and will likely outlive it.  so this scenario will exist for the product's entire lifecycle
[04:21] <diddledan> that's a good point. twice a year we add and remove stuff
[04:21] <shauno> the fact that it wasn't taken into account is the actual problem
[04:21] <diddledan> so really leapseconds aren't without precedent in other places
[04:22] <shauno> as I understand it they're the primary difference between GMT and UTC
[04:22] <diddledan> we manage it in february. and mostly with DST.
[04:22] <shauno> (that, and a name that offends the french less than GMT does)
[04:22] <diddledan> UTC was invented for the radio time signals (per the link above)
[04:24] <shauno> as I understand it, it would have been UCT in english, or TUC in french.  so UTC was picked so it favoured neither.
[04:25] <diddledan> lol
[04:25] <diddledan> I like CUT
[04:25] <shauno> which would bother me less if the french actually used this timezone
[04:25] <diddledan> one slip and you have a swear
[04:26] <shauno> I like the politically-correct versions of GMT & BST
[04:26] <shauno> or the un-britished versions, at least
[04:26] <shauno> "western european time" and "western european summer time".  so ireland it WET in the winter and WEST in the summer
[04:26] <diddledan> right on both counts
[04:27] <diddledan> ireland is most definitely wet in the winter
[04:27] <shauno> and also bothers me that no-one actually uses these :)
[04:28] <shauno> we have a few systems that call it IST - irish summer time.  which confuses our bangalore developers no end, because they're on Indian Standard Time
[04:28] <diddledan> lol
[04:28] <diddledan> great fun
[04:29] <shauno> and Lotus goes out on a limb and uses GDT for ... greenwich dst time?  greenwich daylight time?
[04:31] <shauno> and of course, being a pedant, I really, really don't like getting meeting invitations for a timezone that doesn't exist
[04:34] <shauno> it's a shame greenland doesn't use GDT, else I'd have a perfectly shaun excuse to show up 3 hours late for meetings
[04:34] <diddledan> lol
[04:34] <diddledan> German International Time
[04:37] <shauno> anyway.  there's a whole lot about timezones that irks me :)
[04:38] <shauno> eg, I think they should be centered on their zero mark, not with one edge on the zero mark
[04:38] <diddledan> to be fair, you usually find something irking in most everything :-p
[04:38] <shauno> 5am will do that to anyone :)
[04:38] <diddledan> I don't get the specific ocean islands' timezone divisions - straight lines? not so much.
[04:39] <shauno> that's usually to make trade easier
[04:39] <shauno> like one island? group? hopped from one side of the international date line to the other, because they trade almost exclusively with the other.  so not having spare days everywhere was a huge boost
[04:40] <shauno> "sorry, office is closed, it's saturday here"
[04:41] <diddledan> maybe times should be "atomic + longitude" rather than zoned
[04:41] <diddledan> so you know that 123+8 is close to 123+9
[04:42] <shauno> you don't think being 4 minutes behind london would bug you?
[04:42] <diddledan> you'd still have a split at 360degrees but you know that 123+360 is close to 124+1
[04:43] <shauno> the 10 o'clock news would be ruined :/
[04:43] <diddledan> lol
[04:43] <diddledan> america seems to cope with that
[04:43] <diddledan> just say "at news at 123+0"
[04:43] <shauno> kinda, but still on round numbers
[04:43] <diddledan> that way you know to adjust by your own position
[04:44] <diddledan> would make mental arithmatic be required but they're supposed to teach that in school
[04:44] <shauno> and an overly peverse knowledge of geography when you want to coordinate something with someone in another town
[04:45] <diddledan> nah, phones have gps - just ask siri what your offset it
[04:45] <diddledan> is*
[04:46] <shauno> wouldn't work here, I jumped on the beta train a little too early, and seem to suffer from the South Atlantic Ocean bug
[04:46] <diddledan> \o/
[04:46] <diddledan> that sounds fun
[04:47] <diddledan> I love that your bike ride burned a LOT of calories
[04:47] <shauno> some things which are meant to default to "the last known position" when I don't have a good gps signal, default to 0,0 instead
[04:47] <diddledan> you should share your route online
[04:47] <diddledan> "kayak to kyoto"
[04:47] <shauno> nah, it seems to use my pulse for calories.  it's just the distance that can be nearly 100km out
[04:48] <shauno> I seem to get a 70,000km detour every time I go around the docks
[04:48] <diddledan> meh
[04:49] <diddledan> we get diversions all the time
[04:49] <shauno> (which, ironically, is a shortcut)
[04:49] <shauno> it's actually the weather that bugs me with it though.  the cycling thing is just funny
[04:51] <shauno> anyway.  where do I file a bug report to get a timezone moved east by 7.5 degrees?
[04:51] <diddledan> erm
[04:52] <diddledan> try alt.time.zones
[04:52] <diddledan> (does anyone use usenet for talking these days?)
[04:53] <diddledan> I figure usenet is purely binary hosting
[04:54] <shauno> it's probably safer to assume that.  the people that do still use it properly are kinda weird
[04:54] <shauno> so, here's my plan
[04:54] <shauno> instead of me being >30 minutes behind solar time
[04:55] <shauno> GMT should be ±7.5 degrees of zero
[04:55] <shauno> so no-one in it is more than 30 minutes from solar
[04:55] <shauno> and we can make a new timezone west of it for ireland and portugal to live in
[04:56] <shauno> it'd also make gmt/utc fit france better, so they can quit pretending that adding 1 to a train timetable is difficult
[05:00] <shauno> CET does properly boggle my mind.  it's geographically centered close to vienna.  so spain using it means they're over an hour off solar time
[05:02] <shauno> if they just make it 15±7.5, central european time would actually cover central europe.  instead of just being a crutch for anyone who needed an excuse for not being able to run their trains on time
[05:16] <diddledan> I might upgrade something to ubuntu 15.10 soon, and then break it. That way I can go into #ubuntu and ask for someone to "fix my wily"
[05:17] <shauno> :(
[05:18] <shauno> surely you'd properly ask in +1 ?
[05:18] <diddledan> good point
[05:18] <diddledan> I forgot about that
[05:19] <shauno> then you'd have the problem where it's likely difficult to come up with a wily joke they haven't heard yet
[05:19] <diddledan> lol
[05:20] <diddledan> how about a "shared wily which doesn't cope with all the people using it"
[05:20] <diddledan> or maybe that should be "abusing"
[05:21] <shauno> that's awkward.  I can only imagine you hovering the mouse over the "Affects me" link with a forveralone.gif face
[05:21] <shauno> http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/26/autos-selfdriving-nearmiss-idINL1N0ZB2UY20150626
[05:22] <shauno> it's a shame they didn't actually collide.  it'd be interesting to see them have to find one at fault
[05:24] <diddledan> sounds like delphi are just blowing their trumpet to say "look at how good our car was at not hitting the dangerous google one"
[05:25] <shauno> no kidding
[05:40] <knightwise> mornin peeps
[05:41] <diddledan> interesting. maybe my bsods are caused by shadow copies
[05:41] <diddledan> I just noticed this bsod was immediately preceeded by my usb3 drive firing up to accept a copy (that's all the drive is used for)
[05:41]  * diddledan unplugs it to see how things go
[05:41] <diddledan> allo knightwise
[05:42] <mapps> ello;]
[05:42] <mapps> tv time..new series of graceland started
[05:43] <diddledan> is that about michael jackson?>
[05:44] <mapps> no:P
[05:44] <diddledan> or was graceland elvis?
[05:44] <diddledan> I forget
[05:52] <mapps> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2393813/
[06:56] <mapps> gibraltar really is an odd one at times
[06:56] <mapps> 'New iPhones from Gibtelecom
[06:56] <mapps> Gibtelecom today announced it will offer iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus, the biggest advancements in iPhone history, beginning from Friday 26th June '
[06:56] <mapps> only been out since september..how exciting
[06:56] <diddledan> there'll be a new one in a month or two
[06:57] <mapps> pop to uk or spain and get it when its launched
[06:57] <mapps> or wait 11months?
[07:03] <diddledan> eh? didn't google get out of the project hosting service? https://cloud.google.com/tools/cloud-repositories/
[07:03] <mapps> hm
[07:04] <diddledan> looks like it's more tied with their paas tho
[07:30] <mapps> urgh
[07:31] <mapps> its so hot
[07:31] <mapps> im sweating loads lying dead still
[07:31] <mapps> cant have my windows open..car park behind
[07:48] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:01] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:02] <davmor2> I'm at the caravan already we'd had enough of yesterday so came here early :)
[08:06] <MooDoo> hello davmor2 :D
[08:06] <MooDoo> where are you at the moment?
[08:07] <davmor2> MooDoo: Ebury Hill shrewsbury we have a seasonal pitch
[08:07] <MooDoo> ooo lovely, long weekend away?
[08:10] <davmor2> MooDoo: I'm at work today so not really
[08:14] <MooDoo> davmor2: ah right, well i'm sure you'll have a lot of fun
[08:18] <davmor2> MooDoo: it's more the relax you get here and go aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[08:19] <MooDoo> davmor2: sounds lovely, i'm off to bakewell again in a few weeks :D
[08:19] <davmor2> MooDoo: nice :)
[08:19] <MooDoo> davmor2: but at the moment, i'm copying data back to my ubuntu storage server 400gb takes for ever :D
[08:28] <diddledan> MooDoo: over the ether?
[08:28] <diddledan> PAYDAY!
[08:31] <popey> \o/ payday
[08:31] <diddledan> popey: I wonder if I'll magic up an mx4 invite today?
[08:32] <davmor2> diddledan: no
[08:33] <diddledan> davmor2: correct
[08:33] <diddledan> davmor2: just had my three tries
[08:34] <MooDoo> diddledan: i converted my storage server from debian back to ubuntu, just copying data back from my nas
[08:35] <diddledan> how come "storage server" doesn't count as nas?
[08:35] <MooDoo> diddledan: your right, i'm copying data from my NAS device to my 1u server :D
[08:36] <MooDoo> oh you know what i mean :D
[08:40] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:40] <bigcalm> intrbiz: have I returned your serial cable or have I lost my marbles?
[08:40] <diddledan> marbles. definitely the marbles
[08:42] <diddledan> interesting. sophos are going for an IPO?
[08:43] <diddledan> (Rory Cellan-Jones tweeted about it)
[08:46] <popey> Right, so i have put a completely different disk in my desktop and it's giving me io errors again.
[08:46] <popey> I suspect the motherboard is phut now.
[08:46] <popey> After a lot of wasted time faffing about with disks
[08:47] <MooDoo> non faffing if you got your data back :D
[08:50] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:50] <popey> the data was never gone
[08:50] <popey> I have backups
[08:50] <popey> the faffing was swapping disks about to get it to boot and be usable
[08:50] <diddledan> popey: might be a wonkywire?
[08:50] <popey> now I boot it and it throws io errors
[08:50] <popey> tried multiple wires
[08:51] <diddledan> bah
[08:51] <popey> will rip all the wires out and try one by one though, to be sure
[09:00] <MooDoo> stupid computers
[09:01] <MooDoo> i must admit i was getting really fedup with centos on my server last night, I reformatted and put ubuntu on it lol
[09:02]  * TwistedLucidity offers the use of a large axe
[09:02]  * TwistedLucidity makes a note to return neighbour's large axe
[09:03]  * popey adds one to the "moodoo switches distro" counter
[09:03] <diddledan> I like when you offer to loan your neighbour something and they say "oh that's mine"
[09:03] <diddledan> ".. I wondered where that had gone"
[09:05] <diddledan> similar and actual occurance - one xmas my mum gave my brother a nice wooly jumper. it was already his prior to gifting. he'd given it to mum for her to repair. the repair hadn't been done.
[09:06] <SuperMatt> MooDoo: not fedora? :o
[09:06] <SuperMatt> I'm running CentOS on my cloud server and it's damn spiffy
[09:10] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11777629/ hmmm
[09:10] <popey> check out that seek error rate
[09:11] <SuperMatt> yowzers
[09:12]  * popey runs a smart test
[09:18] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: nope not this time
[09:18] <TwistedLucidity> diddledan: LOL! The delay in gettig the axe back is because I haven't had a chance to sharpen it yet.
[09:19] <diddledan> TwistedLucidity: he'll cut himself and comment that he didn't recall it being that sharp before
[09:19] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: fedora/centos have all the same issues, it's just a pain in the neck to get bonding working where as in ubuntu it's a 5 second job
[09:20]  * diddledan gets a whip out to help MooDoo
[09:21] <diddledan> http://www.revk.uk/2015/06/do-they-not-teach-decimal-numbers-in.html?showComment=1435310297269#c7129612416781945849
[09:21] <diddledan> funny me is funny
[09:22] <brobostigon> i just noticed something, with the QI charger on my nexus 4, hits 100% screen off, stops charging, doesnt keep it topped up or anything, seems odd behaviour.
[09:22] <diddledan> brobostigon: you need to keep it awake to charge the sucker?
[09:23] <brobostigon> diddledan: seems so, keeping it awake drain battery. so its defeatest,
[09:23] <brobostigon> it defeats the point*
[09:24] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Chocolate Pudding Day! 😃
[09:24]  * Laney gets paid a suspicious amount
[09:24] <Laney> I think the student loan repayments have stopped already
[09:27] <diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQxLM2u-QY4
[09:29] <popey> welp, that disk looks dead http://paste.ubuntu.com/11777674/
[09:29] <diddledan> :-(
[09:37] <diddledan> grenoble currently in the news over an attack. why must everything like this be "suspected islamist"?!
[09:38] <diddledan> err. https://twitter.com/andysc/status/614357792271507456/photo/1
[09:43]  * bashrc_ is probably a "suspected computationalist"
[09:47] <diddledan> bashrc_: they're the worst!
[09:48] <knightwise> i"m a radical cross-platformist
[09:50] <bashrc_> I guess I'm only partly cross platform. I don't do Apple or Windows
[09:51] <knightwise> I do have to admit i don't have any IOS devices inthe house
[09:51] <bashrc_> sadly, I'm not radical enough to use the Hurd yet
[09:51] <knightwise> just did a podcast episode on the surface pro 3
[09:52] <diddledan> knightwise: is it out?
[09:52] <knightwise> 3 , not the 4
[09:53] <diddledan> knightwise: no I mean the podcast episode
[09:53] <knightwise> yep , just hit the feed
[09:53]  * diddledan fires up itunes
[10:04] <knightwise> :)
[10:04] <knightwise> shoudl be in de feed now
[10:06] <diddledan> teehee http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/06/26/queen-guard-_n_7669556.html?1435312587
[10:13] <knightwise> STEP BACK FROM THE QUEENS GUARD !:p
[10:13] <knightwise> tourists sometimes forget these are trained elite soldiers
[10:14] <diddledan> yeah - they think it's just an act
[10:15] <MooDoo>  brilliant
[10:16] <diddledan> lol @ painted yellow
[10:16]  * diddledan listening to knightwise podcast :-p
[10:17] <knightwise> :)
[10:31] <diddledan> "hey windows.. buttons!"
[10:31] <diddledan> :-D
[10:32] <diddledan> yeah that pen loop I couldn't get on with - it was too tight so I couldn't get the pen into it
[10:33] <diddledan> and trying to do so I kept pulling it off the keyboard meaning the sticky got not sticky
[10:51] <diddledan> stick figures of two girls dancing in business documents ftw!
[10:55] <diddledan> knightwise: I'm liking the music this week
[11:01] <knightwise> diddledan: thanx :)
[11:01] <knightwise> Daniel Messer sources it and I think there will be a download link to the track in the shownotes
[11:02] <diddledan> he's chosen some awesome tunes this season
[11:04] <diddledan> having the podcast use different tunes each ep allows listeners (read: me :-p) to discover things we'd not have come across normally - I prefer that to a standard soundtrack that is repeated every episode (although saying that the ubuntu podcast that popey does has a very well-defined identity with their stock music choice)
[11:07] <knightwise> yeah , i'm really happy with dans work. He finds the most amazing tunes
[11:08] <knightwise> during the last storytime episode he even used one of his self composed tracks as a backing track
[11:08] <diddledan> nice
[11:09] <knightwise> that track was soo cool I have it (and other pieces of his work) on my phone right now
[11:10] <knightwise> and its great to have Keith Murray as a producer
[11:35] <MooDoo> :)
[11:38] <knightwise> he keeps me on my toes to produce in time and stuff
[13:09] <daftykins> aaaah just sliced some cheese and spread some branston pickle on the pieces :>
[13:09] <diddledan> nummy
[13:10] <daftykins> post office has the replacement screen i ordered off ebay for one of these samsung Galaxy S3s :O
[13:14] <knightwise> ha
[13:15] <knightwise> you are gonna fix it yourself diddledan
[13:15] <knightwise> daftykins:
[13:15] <daftykins> knightwise: yep
[13:15] <daftykins> childs play on this one really
[13:15] <daftykins> the S3 has a horrible glass glued to digitiser glued to LCD glued to frame design, so i just got a full substitute for £48
[13:16] <daftykins> i'll transplant the internals like the motherboard and cameras, then it'll be set
[13:25] <knightwise>  so no breaking out the iron
[13:25] <daftykins> don't even own one :>
[13:26] <daftykins> nah, i have two S3s right here and the LCDs are cracked along with the glass in both, so it'd be a waste
[13:27] <daftykins> his mum has one that can do with just the new glass on the front though, so he's going to try it i think
[13:27] <knightwise> i think its criminal how some of these things are built
[13:27] <daftykins> for some reason he owns the most obscure of tools, so he's got a heat gun to do the glue melting
[13:28] <daftykins> yeah it is a bit :/
[13:28] <daftykins> the pursuit of ever thinner devices
[13:28] <knightwise> true
[13:29] <daftykins> trouble with this one is the S3 is 3 years old now, pretty close to being pointless to even fix
[13:29] <daftykins> £48 for a device you can buy for £100
[13:55] <diplo> daftykins: Same issue here, I was given 2
[13:55] <diplo> About £80 for the screens, couldnt be bothered
[13:55] <daftykins> hehe
[13:55] <ujjain> do Irish people in IT make more than in UK? I see that the Irish have a 20% higher income on average http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita
[13:55] <daftykins> just taken apart this one ready, looks like a lot of time to transfer the components really. but ah well
[13:55] <daftykins> diplo: did you sell them?
[13:55] <diplo> Don't know ujjain but they pay a higher tax on their wages afaik
[13:56] <diplo> Nah, both sat in drawers at home
[13:56] <daftykins> S3s as well, or?
[13:56] <ujjain> ah really? my friend said tax was low there, maybe compared to NL, internet didn't show that low tax either
[13:56] <diplo> 2 x S3's and 1 x S2 with bottom buttons broke
[13:56] <ujjain> just for corporations
[13:56] <diplo> Tax on wages was high I thought, tax on companies is low
[13:56] <daftykins> diplo: post me the S3s? :>
[13:56] <diplo> I may be completely wrong
[13:57] <diplo> Didn't you just say you had 2 broke screen ones ?
[13:58] <diddledan> GDP doesn't equate to wages
[13:58] <ujjain> ah I thought that was it
[13:59] <diddledan> GDP is the country's gross income
[13:59] <diddledan> it stands for "Gross Domestic Product"
[14:00] <ujjain> I figured most of it would've been caused by salaries though, but I guess other income like oil, going straight to the state counts
[14:01] <diddledan> no, it's not related to wages at all
[14:01] <diddledan> e.g. apple headquarters in ireland so a lot of european sales are counted against irish GDP
[14:13] <shauno> tax is the catch here.  a cursory google will tell you the low band is 20% - it conveniently ignores that we have a second income tax called 'universal social charge' that adds up (an extra 7% for me)
[14:14] <popey> like national insurance for us?
[14:15] <shauno> it's a "temporary" tax for the austerity crap
[14:15] <popey> ah
[14:17] <shauno> we have the same 20/40 income tax split as the UK, but about 20 ends about 10k lower than in the UK (the split's about about 32k eur, and yours is about 32k gbp lol)
[14:17] <shauno> and then this extra tax to pay off germany, or however that worked
[14:18] <diddledan> germany seems to be single-handedly bankrolling the whole of europe
[14:20] <shauno> it's just something to take into account when you're trying to compare the two.  tech wages do look attractive here, because the sector still thrives on european immigrants
[14:20] <shauno> so it has to look good so that the take-home is still competitive enough to attract continentals to 300 days of rian
[14:20] <shauno> *rain
[14:22] <shauno> or more simply, having half my wage taxed at 47% doesn't make the numbers feel very attractive anymore
[14:31] <Azelphur> http://imgur.com/bAph37z high score on breaking things
[15:03] <ujjain> what is the line called in a stock chart?
[15:03] <ujjain> that shows the central pattern, 1 straight line
[15:04] <knightwise> watching "mr robot" . cool Tv show
[15:04] <ujjain> hmm, I just crashed my Excel,
[15:05] <daftykins> popey: how'd the disk zero go? did those 14 sectors get remap and grow any?
[15:05] <popey> it all went pear shaped
[15:05] <daftykins> *remapped
[15:05] <popey> swapped the disk and cable out
[15:05] <popey> still getting errors
[15:06] <popey> so I dunno, motherboard?
[15:06] <daftykins> ouch, could be the SATA controllers going funky yeah
[15:06] <popey> which is a bummer
[15:06] <popey> not looking forward replacing the entire mobo
[15:07] <TwistedLucidity> Stop, Hammer time!
[15:07] <daftykins> indeed :( always a nasty job
[15:07] <daftykins> i'm just poking in the tiny little PCB with the volume control buttons into this new phone front, haha
[15:07] <daftykins> so ridiculously tiny :>
[15:09] <popey> need to set aside lots of time to go through and figure out what might be up
[15:09] <popey> also, should do a memtest
[15:09] <diddledan> time to make a cuppa - deployment in progress
[15:09] <diddledan> 10 minutes till the backup is complete then to delete then to replace
[15:10]  * bashrc_ deploys cuppa
[15:11] <diddledan> Backing-up remote files... 636 / 4899 [[15:11] <diddledan> I like my scripts
[15:11] <diddledan> script*
[15:11] <diddledan> technically it's not a script tho. it's written in go so I compiled it
[15:12] <zmoylan-pi> rewrite it in perl, tamper proof, even from you :-P
[15:13] <diddledan> err.. no.
[15:13] <daftykins> memtest \o/
[15:18] <ujjain> how have salaries developed in the UK?
[15:18] <ujjain> minimal rise since 2000, right?
[15:21] <ujjain> http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/files/2015/03/regjohnsonchart3.jpg - seems to show 90's great, since then minimal yeah
[15:27] <davmor2> ujjain: depends on the company, some are less some are based on inflation and some are higher
[15:27] <davmor2> ujjain: why the fascination with wages
[15:28] <ujjain> I just wonder, I live in London and pay much rent, my mate lives in Dublin, we were talking about it.
[15:28] <ujjain> Just wondering about things. I read in some countries marriage also has a lot of tax benefits.
[15:30] <davmor2> ujjain: That's because you live in London!  It is one of the worlds most expensive capitals anywhere will seem cheaper, but then you also have to remember that you get london wages too due to the additional expense of living there
[15:31] <ujjain> well, I think 40k outside of London would be better than 50k in London.
[15:31] <ujjain> but I'm happy here, for a few years will be fun.
[15:33] <davmor2> ujjain: I know there are people who commute from Wolverhampton and Coventry to London every day, That's so they get the cheap rent and the better salary.  I only know this because everytime I goto the office I see the same people on the platforms :)
[15:34] <diplo> My friend comes from Bristol on train on a monday and comes back Thursday night
[15:34] <diplo> Stays in hotels, works for him
[15:34] <daftykins> alright if you're single perhaps?
[15:34] <ujjain> but then you work 20% more... I count travel time as well
[15:35] <diplo> He's not single, just got married and about to start a family
[15:35] <ujjain> seems a contractor life, but staying in hotels isn't a cheap option.
[15:35] <diplo> About a 1/4 of the staff do what he does
[15:35] <diplo> It's cheaper than renting a place down there ujjain
[15:35] <diplo> Well he worked it out to be
[15:35] <ujjain> meh, might actually be similar pricing in London yeah :P
[15:36] <ujjain> yeah, fair enough
[15:36] <diplo> He does search around a lot for the best deals though
[15:36] <diplo> Quite often stays in uni digs etc
[15:36] <diplo> Uni Halls*
[15:37] <ujjain> sleeping with other people on the room?
[15:39] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/222k7jecohmd13b/AABqemkMg4icFEf0Jzjbaj2Ta?dl=0
[15:39] <daftykins> well that was fun, all working perfectly
[15:40] <popey> when I worked in Uxbridge we rented out a flat for 4 members of staff, they lived in it during the week
[15:40] <popey> was way more financially sane than hotels
[15:40] <daftykins> that's what the banks do over here a lot
[15:44] <diplo> popey: Nah just get a room each, his boss does the same
[15:44] <diplo> Quite often empty rooms, the uni rent them out fro more income
[15:44]  * popey fondly remembers before Y2K when you could expense lavish hotels every week :)
[15:46] <davmor2> popey: that bug has a lot to answer for ;)
[15:47] <SuperMatt> I remember when I had dreams of actually owning a house!
[15:48] <diplo> :)
[15:48] <popey> I'm never moving
[15:48] <popey> famous last words
[15:48] <popey> Can't be doing with that.
[15:49] <diplo> I want a nicer house, but going to wait till I settle down again
[15:50] <ujjain> popey, you think such a time could come back? or you think it was just part of the IT bubble?
[15:51] <popey> yeah, those times will return imo
[15:51] <popey> it goes in cycles, always does
[15:52] <popey> we'll all move back to local computing again when the cloud bursts :)
[15:52] <popey> dunno when that will be though
[15:52] <ujjain> seems '90's was extreme though, and it's been down a long time, although stock has been up since
[15:52] <SuperMatt> I don't know, local computing just gives the unthinking too much control over their data
[15:52] <ujjain> docker / on-metal seems popopular
[15:53] <SuperMatt> Only the initiated should be allowed to do anything locally
[15:53] <ujjain> I like how you can do so much via API's and modules with the cloud, but it's very expensive.
[15:54] <popey> SuperMatt: exactly my point, something new will come along
[15:54] <popey> people will be empowered or motivated by something new I can't predict
[15:54] <SuperMatt> ujjain: are you talking about cloud computing? because it's only expensive if you greatly over estimate your requirements
[15:54] <popey> convergence maybe :)
[15:54] <ujjain> SuperMatt, we pay 3 million a year
[15:54] <popey> privacy.. war.. who knows
[15:54] <ujjain> we are not very good at picking sizes, and pay on-demand for reserved, etc, but still
[15:54] <popey> Maybe some startup pays people to compute at home or something
[15:55] <SuperMatt> hmmm, convergence may do it, but it means relying on small form factor devices with little space
[15:55] <SuperMatt> ujjain: who are you with?
[15:55] <ujjain> AWS
[15:55] <SuperMatt> ah ok
[15:55] <SuperMatt> I'm at Rackspace
[15:55] <SuperMatt> I would have looked up your account if I could
[15:55] <intrbiz_cr> if you compare the cost of the resources provided, cloud is always more expensive than physical kit in a DC
[15:56] <intrbiz_cr> that is excluding staffing costs etc
[15:56] <ujjain> ah, I worked at Rackspace :P
[15:56] <popey> Some new tool may come along which does secure p2p workloads
[15:56] <ujjain> very nice people, going out with the guys this evening
[15:56] <SuperMatt> oh yeah? where are you going?
[15:56] <popey> people could leverage the power of their phone / laptop / desktop / IoT device
[15:56] <ujjain> Shoreditch probably, some guys going to Camden.
[15:57] <SuperMatt> ah righty
[15:57] <intrbiz_cr> popey: transputer like
[15:57] <popey> yeah, just speculating
[15:57] <SuperMatt> I like what you're saying there popey
[15:57] <popey> we went from single computers to mainframes with terminals to PCs and then client/server and now cloud
[15:57] <popey> it flip/flops every few years
[15:58] <popey> and there's always some major driver for it, whether its security or performance..
[15:58] <popey> or faster bandwidth, or better local display
[15:58] <popey> who knows.
[15:58] <SuperMatt> the real breakthrough is when I have wireless coverage everywhere, and no matter if I'm on my home wifi/work wifi/3G and I can use my phone as web server
[15:58] <SuperMatt> oops, I meant to say that I have a static address
[15:58] <daftykins> and be hacked on them all!
[15:59] <SuperMatt> possibly, if you decide to run wordpress on it ;)
[15:59] <daftykins> that doesn't seem like a given
[15:59] <SuperMatt> I see too many insecure wordpress installs every day
[15:59] <daftykins> too many don't update them i guess
[15:59] <daftykins> is it mostly the core, or a plugin?
[16:00] <bashrc_> wordpress does seem especially vulnerable
[16:00] <SuperMatt> they don't update, install dodgy plugins, make the whole folder tree writable by www-data, etc
[16:00] <daftykins> :)
[16:01] <SuperMatt> what's worse is that a lot of businesses that rely on a web presence don't have any sysadmins
[16:01] <SuperMatt> I know we sell fanatical support, but there needs to be someone in the company who can see the whole picture
[16:02] <bashrc_> fanatical support?
[16:02] <SuperMatt> yeah, so unlike AWS, we'll log in to the server and make changes
[16:03] <SuperMatt> but some companies rely entirely on us as their sysadmins, which means that their business critical stuff is actions really slowly
[16:04] <SuperMatt> it also means they don't have someone testing their backups once a week
[16:04] <SuperMatt> so they get in to a lot of touble
[16:04] <SuperMatt> *trouble
[16:05] <bashrc_> outsourcing of sysadmin functions seems like a bad idea. You would be putting a lot of trust into some other person/organisation who may not care much
[16:05] <SuperMatt> but they don't see it that way
[16:05] <SuperMatt> I'm very happy to configure the backups using our backup system, but if I miss something which I couldn't have been aware of then they are going to be screwed
[16:06] <SuperMatt> basically what we're here for is if your sysads can't figure something out, or want some help with our product set
[16:07] <bashrc_> it's possible that bad systems admin could bring down a company
[16:07] <SuperMatt> oh yes, for sure, but then you have legal recourse
[16:07] <SuperMatt> but with us, you jump through so many contracts that it's unlikely you can blame us for much
[16:08] <bashrc_> I guess so, but by then it's too late
[16:08] <SuperMatt> yup!
[16:08] <SuperMatt> basically, if you do ecommerce, get a damn sysad or just use etsy/ebay
[17:07] <popey> right, wondering where to start my friday evening fixing this desktop
[17:07] <daftykins> :D
[17:07] <popey> rip all sata cables out and put one in.. and go through each controller port
[17:07] <daftykins> any chance i can take a glance at that smartctl -a post-dd zero?
[17:07] <daftykins> curious how it went
[17:10] <popey> lost in the mists of time
[17:10] <daftykins> well just a fresh one i mean :)
[17:10] <daftykins> i remember what the original was like
[17:11] <daftykins> 14 pending remap
[17:12] <popey> that would mean plugging it back in and booting off usb
[17:13] <popey> i am less interested in that specific disk
[17:13] <popey> and more interesting in why _every_ disk that goes in this machine gives errors
[17:13] <daftykins> ah ok
[17:14] <daftykins> you don't have any seagates in there do you?
[17:14] <daftykins> they're really annoying when it comes to SMART data, because they increment 'error' value fields even when they're totally fine
[17:15] <popey> thats been one of the disks
[17:15] <popey> but again, it's not just one disk
[17:15] <daftykins> *nod* just thought i'd throw that gotcha in there
[17:15] <popey> which is what's been flummuxing me
[17:18] <daftykins> pull all disks and play with a single on on every port from a live session with a known-good cable perhaps?
[17:19] <popey> "known good cable" :)
[17:20] <Azelphur> Anyone have any recommendations/tips on building a RAID array with 3 drives? (Probably raid5)
[17:21] <popey> 1. buy a hardware raid card, set it up and forget about it
[17:21] <popey> 2. use md raid
[17:21] <Azelphur> was planning on doing mdadm?
[17:21] <popey> those are my options in order of preference
[17:22] <daftykins> how much do you value your time, Azelphur? ;)
[17:22] <daftykins> actually i can't talk, not touched mdadm... but i love my hardware RAID cards
[17:22] <Azelphur> daftykins: *shrug* reasonably, why?
[17:22] <Azelphur> my time is lost by waiting for a raid card in the post anyway, wanna get this going.
[17:23] <daftykins> well it's about maintenance really at the end of the day
[17:23] <Azelphur> why would it need maintenance? o.O
[17:23] <daftykins> when the task of first setting one came up, i had the choice between getting a proper card and foreseeing spending lots of time buried in logs in messy situations trying to get something back together :)
[17:23] <daftykins> 'cause disks die.
[17:24] <Azelphur> heh
[17:24] <Azelphur> so you just buy a new one and rebuild the array no?
[17:24] <daftykins> https://carpenterbrut.bandcamp.com/track/le-perv-2 - ah so good
[17:25] <daftykins> yeah, i think the management is just easier though with hardware cards
[17:25] <popey> I used mdadm for years, and I know plenty of people who do
[17:25] <popey> its fine
[17:26] <daftykins> i managed to come away from an 8 disk RAID6 having 3 or 4 disks fail at once, with only ~640KB lost
[17:26] <daftykins> no idea whereabouts that 640KB was relative to the data mind :D
[17:27] <daftykins> it's amusing how much calmer and level headed you can be about those situations when the data isn't yours :D
[17:28] <Azelphur> lol
[17:28] <popey> right, daftykins http://paste.ubuntu.com/11779612/
[17:29] <daftykins> is this a new one i've not seen before?
[17:29] <Azelphur> So for these drives, what about partitions and such?
[17:29] <popey> nope
[17:29] <popey> its the original one http://paste.ubuntu.com/11747962/
[17:29] <Azelphur> they aren't identical drives, but they are all 5TB
[17:30] <daftykins> popey: oh wow, so it's cleaned up those iffy sectors and hasn't even increased the reallocated value on ID# 5
[17:30] <popey> yeah
[17:30] <popey> so I am inclined to think the disk is fine
[17:31] <popey> was going to do a long test but that'll take hours, so running a short one now
[17:32] <daftykins> looks pretty good, though i don't recall what your final position is with Amazon given its' iffy warranty status with WD
[17:33] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11779628/ after running the short test
[17:34] <popey> might install windows on this
[17:34] <daftykins> probably not enough LBAs hit to cause ID #1 to increase further
[17:34] <popey> if i can find the media
[17:35] <daftykins> WD has a bootable ISO tool called DLG, with tests both short and long. it'd be interesting to see if it throws any further errors at the bottom or those values climbed again both on that system and another if available
[17:35] <daftykins> probably not far off smartctl's mind
[17:36] <daftykins> http://support.wdc.com/product/download.asp?groupid=619&sid=2&lang=en
[17:36] <daftykins> ah no, not an ISO but a zip with a DOS exe
[17:38] <zmoylan-pi> freedos \o/
[17:39] <zmoylan-pi> the cobol of operating systems :-)
[17:41]  * popey inserts windows dvd and does that
[17:42] <daftykins> 86% humidity here today :S
[17:42]  * daftykins gasps
[17:43] <popey> only dvd I have is home premium
[17:43] <popey> I bought an upgrade to whatever the better one was, ages ago
[17:43] <popey> wonder if that's still valid somehow
[17:43] <zmoylan-pi> not too bad here.  hot and icky but could be worse... [Dublin, DUB, Ireland] Condition: Partly Cloudy | Temp: 20C/68F/293K/527R | Humidity: 49% | Wind Speed 18mph/29kmph
[17:45] <daftykins> it's sad that MS pulled their windows 7 ISOs from digital river, else i could've linked you to a nice fast ultimate to mooch!
[17:51] <popey> woohoo, found the upgrade key
[18:18] <popey> oh gawd
[18:18] <popey> i forgot how painful windows installing is
[18:21] <daftykins> :)
[18:22] <daftykins> very keen for 10, nice fresh start... but there'll no doubt be tonnes of release day patches XD
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> popey: you're doing it as well?
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> I'm installing Win10 on an older laptop (win7 era but still)
[18:23] <popey> heh
[18:24] <daftykins> it's lighter than 7 so it should do well as long as the spec is decent
[18:24] <daftykins> on the RAM and disk front
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> at the same time, I'm ordering an XPS13 :)
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: 256G SSD, 8G RAM, i3 from '09
[18:25] <daftykins> oh nice, is that first gen i3?
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> second I think
[18:25] <daftykins> ah so sandybridge
[18:25] <daftykins> vewy gewd
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> nope Westmere
[18:26] <MartijnVdS> so first gen
[18:26] <daftykins> ah har
[18:26] <daftykins> probably quite useful still :)
[18:26] <MartijnVdS> (intel ironlake graphics too; expecting lag)
[18:26] <daftykins> SSDs seem to polish up so much
[18:26] <daftykins> come to think of it i should investigate a classic theme on 10!
[18:28] <MartijnVdS> ooh it's doing its firstboot thing now
[18:28] <MartijnVdS> "Getting ready"
[18:29] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: only another 6 hours then
[18:31] <ball> So... what's Unity all about?
[18:31] <daftykins> the desktop environment?
[18:32] <ball> Is the intention to make it work on desktops, tablets and phones?
[18:32] <ball> daftykins: Yes.
[18:32] <davmor2> ball: yes
[18:33] <ball> We've been trying Ubuntu for a few months on my daughter's desktop PC.
[18:33] <daftykins> it's a very polarising DE that's for sure - Marmite experience :)
[18:33] <ball> It's better than I remember but I have some reservations about the desktop U.I.
[18:34] <davmor2> ball: there is unity7 in the desktop image currently this is the basis for unity8 which is planned to be the version that runs on phone/tablets/desktops/tv etc
[18:35] <popey> \o/ anytime upgrade worked
[18:35] <ball> brb
[18:35] <popey> I forgot that Windows has to be installed on a <2TB partition
[18:35] <popey> that's annoying
[18:36] <daftykins> if you're legacy booting?
[18:36] <davmor2> popey: only the 32bit version right ;)
[18:37] <popey> its not an efi system
[18:37] <popey> and this is 64-bit
[18:37] <daftykins> ah ok
[18:37] <popey> its a bit ye olde
[18:37] <daftykins> :D i'm on my core 2 quad desktop with DDR2, i know it :>
[18:38] <daftykins> my sandybridge i5 laptop does EFI but i'm getting so tired of the cheap TN panel on that thing
[18:38] <daftykins> horrid picture
[18:38] <popey> oh, apparently I bought this in 2011
[18:38] <popey> so not _that_ old
[18:39] <daftykins> :D
[18:39] <popey> Item: Zoostorm Advanced Media PC, Core i7-2600 3.4GHz, 8GB RAM, 1TB HDD, DVDRW, Windows 7 Professional
[19:04] <daftykins> hmm super budget edition
[19:07] <daftykins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/H61M-F-Motherboard-Intel-S-ATA-Express/dp/B00H2GQQQM/ £34.48 direct from amazon themselves :O
[19:08] <daftykins> 2 RAM slots and 4 SATA though :(
[19:10] <daftykins> not that i mean to rush ahead and assume the worst...
[19:14] <diddledan> yawn
[19:14] <diddledan> little nap
[19:14] <daftykins> :)
[19:14] <diddledan> awake again now
[19:14] <daftykins> evening sir
[19:14] <diddledan> allo
[19:15]  * directhex is back on SteamOS dev
[19:15] <foobarry> lots of traffic here tonight
[19:15] <diddledan> directhex: v2?
[19:15] <directhex> diddledan: indeed
[19:16] <directhex> diddledan: have now run into 2 blocking bugs, so looks like a weekend on the xbox :p
[19:16] <daftykins> xbox \o/
[19:16] <diddledan> hehe
[19:16] <daftykins> i just had a text about GTA 5 heisting
[19:17] <daftykins> but arranging 4 friends online at the same time, tough
[19:29] <popey> arranging four married with kids friends online is easy
[19:29] <popey> friday night, okay!
[19:29] <diddledan> :-)
[19:30] <diddledan> friday night is a great time to chillout. none of this clubbing nonsense
[19:30] <popey> also a great time to install windowzzzzzzzzzzz
[19:30] <popey> so far, windows, upgrade, windows update, chrome, mse..
[19:30] <popey> oh, and ethernet driver on a usb stick because it didn't come with one
[19:31] <daftykins> :>
[19:34] <directhex> popey: i find it lultastic than windows 10 does not support my gamer network chip out of the box, but older linux kernels do
[19:35] <directhex> so i had to usb-stick it too
[19:35] <popey> right, what's next, steam I guess :)
[19:35] <directhex> vlc!
[19:36] <daftykins> ugh VLC :P
[19:36] <popey> "Install Steam Now"
[19:36] <popey> "Free 1.5MB download"]
[19:36] <popey> lulz
[19:36] <popey> 1TB later...
[19:36] <daftykins> too right
[19:37] <popey> is it possible to resize up the windows boot disk from 2TB post install?
[19:37] <daftykins> popey: throw this sucker up in the background and see if those SMART error IDs increment as things go on? http://crystalmark.info/redirect.php?product=CrystalDiskInfo
[19:37] <daftykins> yep
[19:37] <directhex> popey: yes, you can resize down on modern windows
[19:37] <daftykins> run diskmgmt.msc then right click the partition and shrink
[19:37] <popey> no, up, not down
[19:37] <daftykins> er or extend too
[19:37] <daftykins> :>
[19:37] <popey> yay
[19:37] <directhex> popey: why is it 2?
[19:37] <popey> will do that later
[19:38] <popey> windows 7 install default
[19:38] <popey> AIUI
[19:38] <directhex> you can't have a windows boot volume >2T on BIOS
[19:38] <popey> bummer
[19:38] <popey> so I will always have to have a 2TB C: and 1.9TB D:?
[19:38] <popey> sadface
[19:38] <directhex> MBR cannot exceed 2T for a drive
[19:38] <daftykins> thing is on a mechanical you want to keep Windows separate from Games anywho
[19:38] <diddledan> efi
[19:38] <daftykins> so i'd make C: 100GB tops then have D: as everything else?
[19:39] <daftykins> will keep Windows faster by keeping the OS data segregated too
[19:39] <directhex> MBR has a 2T upper size limit
[19:39] <popey> i ran out of space with 120GB C:
[19:39] <daftykins> D:
[19:39] <popey> ok, will resize c down and d up
[19:39] <popey> thanks chaps
[19:39] <directhex> if you have a >2T drive, and install windows to it in BIOS mode, you cannot use the space beyond the 2T barrier
[19:39] <directhex> you don't get to have multiple 2T partitions on the same drive
[19:40] <directhex> 2T is your lot.
[19:40] <directhex> windows only supports MBR boot, on BIOS (linux can boot from GPT on BIOS, windows cannot)
[19:41] <daftykins> *tips hat*
[19:41] <daftykins> think of the youngsters growing up now that won't have to learn or deal with all this fun ;)
[19:41] <directhex> BIOS Windows can use GPT drives, but not boot from them
[19:41] <popey> can the second part be bigger than 2TB?
[19:41] <directhex> so you need e.g. an SSD for windows to boot from, then can use the full capacity of a >2T drive
[19:42] <popey> oh, _every_ part has to be <2TB?
[19:42] <popey> thats what I did have previously.
[19:42] <directhex> popey: there is no second part. if you BIOS-install, you  have a DRIVE limit of 2T
[19:42] <popey> wat
[19:42] <directhex> MBR cannot address numbers >2T
[19:43] <directhex> windows doesn't support any kind of hybrid partition table
[19:43] <popey> well balls
[19:43] <popey> that was a waste of time then
[19:43] <directhex> if you want to boot from a >2T drive, you need EFI boot
[19:43] <directhex> (or linux)
[19:45] <popey> hmm, i have a spare 64GB SSD
[19:45] <popey> wonder if that'll be big enough?
[19:45] <directhex> juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust about
[19:46] <popey> i can always move it to another one later
[19:46] <daftykins> i wouldn't recommend it :(
[19:46] <daftykins> true, that
[19:46] <daftykins> <3 clonezilla
[19:46] <popey> ooh, a 115GB one here
[19:46] <popey> that's more breathing room
[19:46] <directhex> getting better!
[19:46] <diddledan> https://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/Seth-Juarez/Deploying-an-F-Web-Application-with-Suave <-- why do I know the name tomas petricek?
[19:47] <popey> time to do the windows 7 install dance again! :D
[19:47] <diddledan> \o/
[19:47] <popey> or... dd it over :)
[19:47] <daftykins> naaah just resize it down and clone it over
[19:47] <popey> yeah
[19:47] <popey> thats way more fun
[19:47] <daftykins> \o/
[19:49] <popey> this shrink dialog makes no sense
[19:49] <daftykins> pretty confusingly worded, ja
[19:50] <daftykins> essentially you're keying in a value to deduct iirc
[19:50] <popey> screw this, I'm using gparted
[19:50] <popey> this is utter nonsense
[19:51] <daftykins> :)
[19:51] <daftykins> wfm
[19:51] <popey> I need to boot to lunix anyway to do the copy
[19:51] <daftykins> i prefer clonezilla since it can skip the empty parts
[19:52] <daftykins> gotta minimise them writes to the SSDs
[19:52] <popey> so does gparted
[19:52] <daftykins> oh it has cloning in?
[19:52] <popey> yeah
[19:52] <daftykins> did not know :O
[19:52] <popey> copy/paste
[20:02]  * popey resizificates from 2TB to 76GB
[20:03] <popey> \o/ success
[20:04] <daftykins> huzzah!
[20:05] <popey> \o/ chkdsk
[20:05] <popey> those were simpler times
[20:05] <daftykins> time to buy another replacement screen for this second S3 :D
[20:08] <popey> \o/ windows still boots, ok, time to move it
[20:44] <popey> \o/ I can haz windows on ssd
[20:45] <popey> \o/ I can haz 4TB GPT disk
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> popey: 4TB SSD?!
[20:50] <popey> heh, i wish
[20:50] <popey> one day
[20:51] <ball> Well, I just installed Xubuntu on a desktop at work.
[20:55] <zmoylan-pi> and when there's a 4tb ssd the os will take 2-3tb of it :-)
[21:04] <directhex> popey: all sorted? :)
[21:20] <popey> directhex: yes, happy days. Thanks chaps!
[21:21] <popey> steam -> gta5, while that downloads, grab latest nvidia driver, minecraft, etc :)
[21:22] <diddledan> I think I've discovered the source of my win10 BSODs
[21:25] <ball> diddledan: Driver issue?
[21:25] <diddledan> ball: possibly
[21:26] <diddledan> ball: it seems related to having my external monitor connected
[21:26] <ball> diddledan: Does that work well when you're running Ubuntu?
[21:26] <diddledan> I've not got ubuntu on here
[21:28] <ball> How about if you boot it from a live DVD?
[21:28] <diddledan> I'd need to run it for over a day of normal use to ensure it's working - the bsods are random
[21:29] <ball> Ah, that's inconvenient.
[21:29] <diddledan> yeah
[21:29] <ball> Is it a laptop?
[21:29] <diddledan> surface pro 3
[21:29] <diddledan> intel gfx
[21:29] <ball> Oh! Are you using a dock or adaptor cable?
[21:29] <diddledan> I've tried both
[21:31] <ball> Have you tried upgrading the video driver?
[21:32] <diddledan> or rather, I've tried the same adapter (microsoft's official dp2hdmi thingy) in the dock display port and also in the inbuilt display port with the dock disconnected entirely - both ways still bsod
[21:32]  * ball nods
[21:33] <ball> Might be worth asking in ##windows.
[21:33] <diddledan> I tried using the intel driver from intel.com but it says that I need to use windows update-releases
[21:33] <ball> Do you have tech support from Microsoft?
[21:33] <diddledan> as in updates from windows update
[21:33] <ball> (I don't know what their equivalent of AppleCare would be)
[21:33] <diddledan> it's still in warranty but as it's win10 (pre-release) I've been providing feedback via the insider program
[21:34] <ball> Ah, that might be your issue then.
[21:34] <diddledan> I'm wondering if the bsod memory dumps are automatically shipped to microsoft devs
[21:34] <ball> Any way to roll back to 8.1?
[21:34] <diddledan> if they are then good
[21:35] <diddledan> yeah reinstalling 8.1 is easy
[21:35] <diddledan> but I want to ensure that it gets fixed rather than mask it by running 8.1.
[21:36] <diddledan> it's a shame the insider program doesn't have direct-contact for blocking issues
[21:36] <ball> That's fair enough but I'm wondering whether it's a hardware issue, in which case it might be in 8.1 too or just a pre-release bug.
[21:50] <diddledan> ok, I've just submitted a detailed analysis to the windows-feedback app
[21:50] <diddledan> it includes everything I've tried so-far and the outcomes
[21:50]  * daftykins glances
[21:50]  * diddledan pokes daftykins
[21:50] <daftykins> just reading up
[21:52] <daftykins> diddledan: do you have much on there that'd be a hassle to throw on? i guess it's your daily driver eh? getting a bit late now but a clean install of the latest build ISO could've been interesting
[21:55] <ball> I have to go, anyway.
[22:23] <Azelphur> Things that take long: Moving 3TB of TV shows.
[22:24] <diddledan> ouch
[22:24] <Azelphur> (Onto a RAID array that is in the process of rebuilding)
[22:24] <diddledan> more ouch
[22:24] <Azelphur> yea
[22:24] <Azelphur> the array says it's gonna take 41 days to rebuild haha
[22:25] <daftykins> XD
[22:25] <diddledan> I like my ZFS freenas system
[22:25] <daftykins> speaking of which i should get the automated emails re: a couple of RAIDs in 30 mins
[22:26] <daftykins> really need to move that to another day, discovering someones RAID has gone funky and being able to do exactly nothing until Monday preys on my mind greatly
[22:26] <diddledan> \o/
[22:26] <Azelphur> diddledan: I am building something kinda cool, I found a nice HP Microserver-like case that takes 10 3.5" + 2 2.5", got an i3 4370 and 16GB RAM.
[22:26] <diddledan> wow
[22:27] <Azelphur> It'll run Emby, Sonarr, CouchPotato, Monit, ownCloud, etc.
[22:27] <diddledan> that's a beast of disk-mounts
[22:27] <Azelphur> on a 3x5TB array
[22:27] <diddledan> one thing I really don't like about ZFS is it's inability to mutate an array
[22:28] <diddledan> i.e. once you've built a RAIDZ1 with 4 disks you can't add another disk later-on without destroying the array
[22:28] <daftykins> i think you don't tend to ever have need to do that if you plan well?
[22:28] <Azelphur> amusingly I designed my raid array with expansion in mind.
[22:28] <Azelphur> that's why I have 10 bays and 3 drives, as I run outta space I'll buy more drives.
[22:28] <diddledan> Azelphur: yeah I'd like to be able to do that
[22:29] <Azelphur> http://www.fractal-design.com/media/7b64ee99-0451-40da-9dc4-cca9aede436a more drive bays than you can shake a stick at :P
[22:29] <diddledan> wow
[22:29]  * diddledan want
[22:29] <diddledan> is it full atx?
[22:29] <Azelphur> micro
[22:29] <diddledan> aah
[22:31] <Azelphur> diddledan: you can go pretty far with it, though http://www.overclockers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=149038&stc=1&d=1409644444
[22:31] <diddledan> jeebers
[22:32] <Azelphur> but yea, the i3 will cope with media transcoding, access to my media library on any device, streamed, while mobile, is awesome :P
[22:47] <diddledan> http://www.inquisitr.com/2201984/miux-by-microsoft-why-windows-10-maker-may-release-its-own-linux-os-distro-soon/
[22:47]  * daftykins checks the calendar
[22:54] <diddledan> yeah it's a repost of an april fool
[22:54] <diddledan> there's a link in there to: http://itsfoss.com/microsoft-announces-linux-os/
[22:54] <diddledan> note the date
[22:55] <daftykins> :>
[22:55] <daftykins> was just eating at the desk so couldn't apply brain
[22:55] <daftykins> assuming it's even present this eve...
[22:55] <diddledan> but the inquisitr seems to have completely missed the joke and posted their discovery today
[22:59] <popey> hah, just tried to run agame from steam, it spawns the dx9 installer - fair enough - which then spins through downloading components from 2005, 2006, 2007 etc
[22:59] <diddledan> 200GB MicroSD?!
[22:59] <popey> why can't it just you know, download the latest one
[22:59] <diddledan> sandisk..
[22:59] <Azelphur> Question, if I'm rebuilding a RAID array and also want to copy lots of data onto the array, which is faster? Both at the same time, or wait for one to complete then do the other?
[23:00] <popey> benchmark it and find out
[23:00] <Azelphur> um, well in order to do that I'd need to pick one or the other, and by then I'd already have done it and not care
[23:00] <popey> exactly my point
[23:00] <popey> this is the conundorum everyone has
[23:01] <daftykins> Azelphur: i always let operations complete prior to dealing with data
[23:01] <Azelphur> I see
[23:01] <daftykins> after all, if something tripped up a build/rebuild/verify - putting data on is pointless :)
[23:01] <popey> i lob data at it while it's syncing and walk away
[23:01] <diddledan> Azelphur: I would expect both processes to be linear writes but doing both together will be exponentially slow due to the writes now being random
[23:01] <Azelphur> diddledan: yea that was my thinking
[23:02] <diddledan> note, IANAL
[23:05] <diddledan> http://www.stuff.tv/news/load-now-you-can-grab-sandisks-200gb-microsd-card
[23:06] <daftykins> so _that_ is why devices keep saying they support 200GB
[23:06] <diddledan> that's hooge
[23:06] <diddledan> it's bigger than my inbuilt ssd
[23:07] <daftykins> diddledan: how much data do you think you can fit in your mouth?
[23:07] <daftykins> :D
[23:07] <diddledan> daftykins: I swallow
[23:12] <diddledan> twitter is awash with everyone posting LGBTQ Pride logos and flags
[23:15] <daftykins> i didn't even know what was going on
[23:17] <diddledan> apparently it's legal to be gay in america now
[23:18] <daftykins> isn't freedom wonderful?
[23:23] <diddledan> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jun/18/google-image-recognition-neural-network-androids-dream-electric-sheep
[23:28] <diddledan> this is beautiful: http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-1920/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/6/18/1434625766484/be8093f0-3cfd-4aa0-a7cb-7cba9abeeb2f-2060x1236.jpeg


[02:21] <Viper550> troy_s: if you wanna help us, #gnewsense
[10:41] <lapo> yo
[11:30] <klepas> moin
[03:53] <zoetrope666> hi :)
[03:55] <zoetrope666> i've recently been uploading some images on art.ubuntu.com and wonder if this is OK to do - i've been reading the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/GetInvolved page and it seems like submitted artwork should abide by certain specifications? im just not sure if im supposed to/allowed to post artwork there, or whether its more for pros?


[02:26] <akgraner> email sent to the list :-)
[02:26] <akgraner> (grrrr enter key)
[02:27] <akgraner> email sent to the list re the winners of the World Play Day Competition
[02:35] <pleia2> yay! :)
[04:07] <elky> http://elkbuntu.net/ubuntuwomen/result.php
[06:48] <MarkDude> That Play Day picture winner is great. Pretty much ALL of them were really cool :)
[08:41] <vish> Pendulum: hi , could you review Bug #25977 [when possible], it seems to be an accessibility issue , but I'm not convinced adding more items to the panel menu is fixing the problem here
[08:41] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 25977 in gnome-panel (Baltix) (and 3 other projects) "places menu should include the trash as a place (affects: 4) (dups: 1) (heat: 38)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/25977
[08:42] <vish> to the default* panel
[08:42] <Marilow> Hello?
[08:43] <Marilow> i was considering moving from windows to ubuntu or another OS
[08:43] <Marilow> people has recomended me ubunto (and sorry for my limited english)
[08:43] <Marilow> ubuntu*
[08:43] <Marilow> (im not a native speaker, i can read it fine though)
[08:44] <Marilow> also, what it makes it diferent from Dos?
[08:47]  * vish didnt realize we had the -accessibility channel , moves discussion there
[08:47] <Marilow> Uhm... hello'
[08:47] <Marilow> ?
[08:47] <janc_lgm> Marilow: I think it's more useful to compare it to Windows then?
[08:47] <vish> Marilow: hi , wasnt referring to you :)
[08:48] <Marilow> Oh.. okay
[08:48] <Marilow> i have been using windows XP
[08:48] <czajkowski> oh results are in for the competition
[08:48] <Marilow> but im tired of it
[08:48] <Marilow> and if im going to change well, i want to see options
[08:49] <Marilow> i dont know that much about SO, some people has recomended me things but not explained me that much about it
[08:49] <svaksha> Marilow: do you have an ubuntu cd?
[08:49] <Marilow> i hear ubunto was like linux, and that linux wsa like DOS
[08:49] <Marilow> no, i need to purchase one?
[08:49] <svaksha> insert it in your cd drive and follow the installation instructions
[08:50] <Marilow> Oh... where i can get one? im in México :/
[08:50] <czajkowski> Marilow: you can download a copy from ubuntu.com
[08:50] <svaksha> shipit.ubuntu.com <-- ask for one
[08:50] <janc_lgm> or even better, just try the live-cd first
[08:50] <Marilow> Oh let me check out
[08:51] <svaksha> shipit sends it free of cost soask for just one or two
[08:51] <rww> the people in #ubuntu-mx might be able to get you one, also
[08:51] <Marilow> Oh
[08:51] <Marilow> ok
[08:52] <janc_lgm> they might also be able to help you installing, etc.
[08:52] <Marilow> Well i think i download it
[08:52] <Marilow> since i dont think waiting 10 weeks is a good idea
[08:52] <svaksha> it takes a few weeks and if you dont want to wait you can burn an iso via windows and install it too
[08:52] <janc_lgm> if you need help that is
[08:52] <svaksha> ah
[08:53] <Marilow> sounds better, yes
[08:53] <Marilow> i need to format my pc to instalt it though?
[08:53] <svaksha> no
[08:53] <Marilow> so, i should do a back up first?
[08:53] <czajkowski> oh the winner ws from the Irish team :D
[08:53] <svaksha> partition it
[08:53] <czajkowski> yay!!
[08:53] <janc_lgm> backup is always a good idea
[08:53]  * svaksha nods
[08:54] <rww> you can try it out by booting from the CD. it'll start a live environment running off the CD that you can play with
[08:54] <Marilow> Oh... okay ?
[08:55] <svaksha> iirc, you can partition your disk to install a maximum of 4 distros
[08:55] <Marilow> okay
[08:55] <janc_lgm> if you are experienced you can partition it to install >100 distros  ;-)
[08:55] <svaksha> heh
[08:56] <AlanBell> svaksha: there isn't really a limit, I think you are thinking of the physical partition limit, which is why logical partitions were made
[08:56] <valorie> 4 distros, LOL
[08:56] <valorie> I'll bet akk has that many
[08:56]  * svaksha only tried 4 :)
[08:56] <AlanBell> Marilow: where are you from, we can put you in touch with your local team if you like
[08:56] <Marilow> heh
[08:56] <rww> AlanBell: Mexico, hence me pointing at #ubuntu-mx
[08:56] <valorie> I've tried 7
[08:56] <valorie> but not at a time!
[08:56] <Marilow> yeah
[08:56] <Marilow> im already in #ubuntu-mx
[08:57] <AlanBell> ah, ok, didn't spot that rww
[08:57] <Marilow> i ask them later though
[08:57] <Marilow> is kinda late here
[08:57] <Marilow> 3 am
[08:57] <svaksha> valorie: you must have a large hdd :)
[08:57] <AlanBell> breakfast time here
[08:57] <Marilow> i hope this isn't too much like that comic xkcd because that comic is... i dont like it that much
[08:57] <svaksha> no music files to clog the disk
[08:58] <janc_lgm> and here, 1st talk at LGM today starts in 5 minutes or so
[08:59] <janc_lgm> drinking tea...
[08:59] <Marilow> by the way... ubuntu is like mac? that not all the programs work in it? a friend of mine is a designer and not all his programs work in his mac
[09:01] <Marilow> my brother could play his games?
[09:01] <valorie> svaksha: no, I started years ago with a Coleco ADAM
[09:01] <valorie> had a Mac
[09:01] <valorie> etc.
[09:02] <valorie> have never done more than dual boot
[09:02] <valorie> but even then, I've pretty much ignored the win partition
[09:02] <valorie> I just have no use for it
[09:02] <svaksha> coleco adam?
[09:02] <janc_lgm> Marilow: maybe not on Ubuntu, but if you choose the dual boot option during installation, he can use Windows to play games
[09:02] <valorie> Marilow: any OS usually only runs programs for it
[09:03] <valorie> so windows only runs windows programs
[09:03] <valorie> won't run Mac or Linux
[09:03] <valorie> etc.
[09:03] <svaksha> Marilow: not exactly. ubuntu==linux, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux
[09:03] <AlanBell> Marilow: yes, it is another operating system, like Mac OS X. There are loads of Ubuntu applications, some of which won't run on Windows or Mac OS X
[09:03] <valorie> but one can run most windows programs in WINE
[09:03] <Marilow> Oh
[09:03] <Marilow> Okay i understand
[09:03] <svaksha> generic app extensions like .odt, pdf, doc, etc will work
[09:03] <Marilow> so i better have both installed then
[09:04] <Marilow> i dont need to buy again office right?
[09:04] <svaksha> Marilow: you will need to log into windows to play games (you cant do it via ubuntu, if that is what you meant)
[09:04] <valorie> heh
[09:05] <svaksha> no, you have openoffice installed by default in the ubuntu cd
[09:05] <Marilow> yeah, but for office? to use word
[09:05] <Marilow> oh
[09:05] <Marilow> i see
[09:05] <Marilow> thats nice
[09:05] <valorie> if you want to dual boot, you'll still have windows
[09:05] <svaksha> remember to save with the correct extension ;)
[09:05] <valorie> so you won't lose office, if you prefer that
[09:05] <valorie> I've always preferred open office
[09:06] <Marilow> its diferent?
[09:06] <AlanBell> Marilow: OpenOffice.org is installed by default and works great. Ubuntu also has an application called the Software Centre which is like an appstore, but all the thousands and thousands of apps it contains are free
[09:08] <Marilow> Oh
[09:08] <Marilow> i will check it out when i install it
[09:09] <svaksha> valorie: i also figured after trying out 4 os's that i need to stick to what i liked. rh/fedora reminded me of windows
[09:10] <valorie> well, I loved my ADAM, and my Mac
[09:10] <svaksha> and at some point i wanted to get away from the start button in the bottom-left interface
[09:10] <valorie> not so much Windows, until Win2Kpro
[09:10] <valorie> which was fine
[09:10]  * svaksha is still wondering what is ADAM
[09:10] <alinefr> LOOK MR BUBBLES
[09:10] <alinefr> ADAM
[09:11] <valorie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleco_Adam
[09:11] <valorie> our first puter
[09:11]  * alinefr loves bioshock
[09:11] <valorie> cost us $500, as I recall
[09:11] <valorie> and it played the coleco and nintendo games both
[09:11]  * svaksha never had a mac <--refuse to buy closed h/w unless someone gits me one ;)
[09:11] <valorie> we had many of them, actually
[09:12] <valorie> well, my Mac was an SE 20
[09:12] <svaksha> s/gits/gifts
[09:12] <valorie> 20 megabyte HD!
[09:12] <valorie> sssssssssssssuper!
[09:12] <Marilow> i dont like the mac :/
[09:12] <valorie> gosh I loved that little baby
[09:12] <Marilow> looks nice but something doesnt appealk me
[09:12] <valorie> but it was too slow to really use the internet
[09:13] <valorie> and that was starting to become available
[09:13] <valorie> not the web, yet
[09:13] <valorie> just text
[09:13] <valorie> mostly email and newsgroups
[09:13] <svaksha> my second desktop i helped assemble it so i always look for that freedom. wish i could assemble a laptop too
[09:13] <valorie> it was much too slow to run a browser
[09:13]  * svaksha goes for lunch
[09:14] <valorie> there was no freedom yet, svaksha
[09:14] <valorie> linux hadn't been invented
[09:14] <valorie> or at least, it was still only a kernel
[09:14]  * svaksha didnt have a pc at that time :)
[09:14]  * valorie is OLD
[09:14] <valorie> lol
[09:14] <valorie> my first modem was 200 baud
[09:14] <svaksha> heh,
[09:15] <Marilow> hah
[09:15] <valorie> and cost me $100
[09:15] <Marilow> whats your age? o.o
[09:15] <valorie> and I waited a year for it
[09:15] <Marilow> im just 20
[09:15] <Marilow> :/
[09:15] <janc_lgm> my first was a Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K, which costed about 8000 BEF (~200 EUR)
[09:15] <valorie> just turned 57
[09:15] <janc_lgm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZX_Spectrum#ZX_Spectrum_16K.2F48K
[09:15] <valorie> my youngest is 21
[09:16] <valorie> I remember the sinclairs
[09:16] <valorie> but I never used one
[09:17] <valorie> coleco had its own OS, but it would also boot into CP/M
[09:17] <valorie> which I learned to use
[09:17] <valorie> a lot like the later DOS
[09:17] <valorie> which was sort of a ripoff of CP/M
[09:17] <Marilow> oh, i see.
[09:18] <valorie> The name "Linux" comes from the Linux kernel, originally written in 1991 by Linus Torvalds
[09:18] <valorie> I was using computers for years before that
[09:18] <Marilow> amazing
[09:19] <Marilow> you are a programer too?
[09:19] <valorie> my mac: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_SE/30
[09:19] <valorie> nope
[09:19] <valorie> can't program my way out of a paper bag
[09:19] <valorie> just a user
[09:20] <Marilow> Oh... ok
[09:20] <Marilow> anyone here is a programer? O.o
[09:20] <valorie> I can debug BASIC
[09:20] <valorie> lol
[09:21] <valorie> sure, I think there are lots
[09:21] <valorie> but most are asleep
[09:21] <Marilow> Oh.. most people here is american or european? or mixed?
[09:21] <valorie> very mixed
[09:21] <janc_lgm> mixed, also asian, australian, etc.
[09:21] <valorie> Indian, Aussie, NZ, all over Europe, Canada, the US
[09:21] <Marilow> nice
[09:21] <valorie> sometimes Brazil, Paraguay
[09:22] <valorie> Argentina, I think
[09:22] <rww> according to LP, we have people in 17 timezones
[09:22] <valorie> we have a big empty spot in China and Russia
[09:22] <janc_lgm> brazil too sometimes
[09:23] <Marilow> thats amazing
[09:23] <valorie> IRC is great that way
[09:23] <janc_lgm> valorie: Russian here too sometimes, but not now
[09:24] <valorie> people tend to not come to the English speaking chans if they aren't good in written English
[09:24] <valorie> unfortunately
[09:24] <Marilow> well i dont have problems reading, just my grammar is somewhat bad
[09:25] <valorie> I have a french friend who taught himself English in IRC
[09:25] <valorie> and got a good job where he has to use English
[09:26] <valorie> we welcome everyone here
[09:26] <valorie> but we do speak English
[09:28] <Marilow> oh
[09:28] <Marilow> yeah i dont have problems with it
[09:28] <Marilow> im self thaugh
[09:29] <Marilow> how is spell?
[09:29] <valorie> taught
[09:29] <Marilow> Well, i learn by myself with movies, reading, etc. mostly
[09:29] <valorie> very adventurous!
[09:29] <Marilow> since english in school here is... well
[09:29] <Marilow> very limited
[09:29] <elky> valorie, big empty spots in china and russia can pretty much be expected because afaik, there are big empty spots :)
[09:30] <Marilow> Hello Marilow
[09:30] <Marilow> oh i tried to say "marshall", he left and i didnt noticed
[09:30] <Marilow> heh
[09:30] <valorie> true, elky, but there are lots of people in china
[09:30] <valorie> I don't know that they use IRC
[09:30] <valorie> or can get across the great wall
[09:31] <elky> valorie, they tend to be... somewhat segregated
[09:31] <valorie> it's sad
[09:31] <elky> yeah. also, a lot of places that aren't terribly technical. there's a lot of land to lay internets across
[09:31] <elky> (australia has a similar problem, really)
[09:31] <valorie> I had friends in HongKong who even were constrained in what they could say
[09:32] <valorie> since one man was in HK, while his partner taught on the mainland
[09:32] <valorie> and they knew they could be kept apart
[09:32] <elky> It is sad, yeah
[09:32] <valorie> I was very much hoping that one of the satellite schemes would take off and make money
[09:33] <valorie> but we're not to universal access yet
[09:33] <valorie> by a long shot
[09:34] <elky> satellite internets seems to favour those with enough money to make a pile of bills tall enough to reach the satellites. I hear that's how the data gets up there :P
[09:34] <elky> At least here it's that expensive.
[09:34] <valorie> yes indeed
[09:35] <valorie> but the schemes were supposed to cover the whole planet, and be cheap to access
[09:35] <valorie> cell, internet, voice, etc.
[09:35] <svaksha> .ru and .cn have strong local languages
[09:35] <elky> yeah, in the right hands they would be
[09:35] <janc_lgm> bandwidth is limited for satellite...
[09:35] <valorie> of course, back then traffic was much more limited
[09:35] <svaksha> where ever people are more comfortable in their mother tongue they prefer that over english
[09:35] <valorie> I don't know if satellites are practical
[09:35] <elky> 64kb ought to be enough for anyone :)
[09:35] <valorie> lol
[09:36] <valorie> my ADAM was 80k!
[09:36] <valorie> 16k for graphics
[09:36] <valorie> :-)
[09:36] <elky> heh
[09:44] <svaksha> is #uw invite only?
[09:45] <janc_lgm> apparently
[09:45] <valorie> yes, because there was a whole raft of spammers
[09:45] <valorie> I suppose they are gone now
[09:49] <svaksha> can someone add my nick to the list
[09:51] <janc_lgm> maybe somebody can whitelist the LGM venue's router's public IP too  :)
[09:56] <elky> janc_lgm, did nobody from the conference talk to staff?
[09:58] <janc_lgm> no (and I doubt they have time for that now)
[09:58] <janc_lgm> a thing to remember for a next time I assume
[09:59]  * janc_lgm has to go now
[09:59] <elky> janc_lgm, how much longer is the conf going for?
[09:59] <Marilow> there is no one in #uw
[10:00] <Marilow> (?)
[10:01] <valorie> oh, uw is shorthand for #ubuntu-women
[10:01] <valorie> sorry, I was flummoxed for a minute
[10:02] <svaksha> Marilow: oops:)
[10:03] <Marilow> hehe
[10:03] <Marilow> oh ok
[10:03] <Marilow> Wow this is more full than this one
[10:03] <Marilow> there is a diference? aside frm the name
[10:03] <AlanBell> Marilow: there is more information about the project here http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/
[10:04] <Marilow> ok
[10:04] <Marilow> faved :3
[10:04] <AlanBell> there are two IRC channels, this one which is logged and has all the project related business in it and the other one without -project on the end which is unlogged and for general chatting
[10:05] <Marilow> Oh nice
[10:11] <Marilow> Uhm its me or people is fighting over the other channel?
[10:12] <elky> Marilow, i'm trying to make sure people aren't waiting for the promises of the spam
[10:13] <Tm_T> nor stay around just for fun
[10:14] <Marilow> what promise of the spam? what that means?
[10:14] <Marilow> im not sure if i understand that phrase, though
[10:14] <Marilow> or maybe im out of context
[10:14] <AlanBell> Marilow: unfortunately various idiots try to be disruptive on IRC sometimes
[10:15] <AlanBell> for some reason they don't come here, possibly because it is logged, possibly because it has -project in the name and sounds less like a chatroom
[10:15]  * svaksha thinks because its logged
[10:16] <svaksha> ive noticed that people have less courage to harass and stalk when stuff is archived
[10:17] <elky> svaksha, people also have less courage to discuss their issues when stuff is archived too.
[10:17] <svaksha> yep, that too
[10:18] <Tm_T> ...and people wonders why we are sometimes bit edgy around there
[10:18] <Marilow> Archived in what way?
[10:18] <svaksha> archive lists or logged channels
[10:19] <svaksha> archived*
[10:19] <Tm_T> archived in any public way
[10:19] <svaksha> typos, gah
[10:19] <Marilow> heh
[10:19] <Marilow> oh well... and that channel still has problems with this people?
[10:19] <Marilow> or they are already solved
[10:20] <Marilow> i see you are discussing it, so i guess is not all that over yet
[10:20] <AlanBell> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/05/29/%23ubuntu-women-project.html
[10:20] <Tm_T> ..wrong channel: there's always problems, I'm afraid
[10:20] <Marilow> nice
[10:21] <AlanBell> Marilow: the two channels have a lot of the same people in them and are both part of the same Ubuntu Women project, they just have a slightly different focus
[10:21] <Marilow> i understand
[10:21] <elky> we like to be about to counsel each other without it all being archived by google forever :)
[11:30] <janc_lgm> elky: until Sunday noon (it's Saturday noon now)
[11:30] <elky> janc_lgm, still worth it then. go ask in freenode, they'll help you fix it for the next day


[00:42] <tucemiux> hello?
[02:53] <tucemiux> join #opensourcemusicians
[20:19] <funkyHat> OUCH ⢁(
[20:19] <funkyHat> I just managed to get rosegarden to make a noise using the "calf filterclavier DSSI" synth plugin, but it was really loud
[20:20] <funkyHat> And didn't sound much like any instrument...
[20:24] <funkyHat> Ah, I switched to the xsynth plugin and it works now ⡈)
[20:24] <funkyHat> Can't get fluidsynth to work though
[21:26] <holstein> funkyHat: you have sound fond files?
[21:27] <holstein> fluidsynth doesnt do anything on its woen
[21:27] <holstein> own*
[21:27] <holstein> it needs soundfont files
[21:28] <funkyHat> holstein: yeah I have fluid-soundfont-g{m,s} installed
[21:29] <funkyHat> I selected -gm
[21:29] <funkyHat> I get this error when I select the fluidsynth plugin "fluidsynth-dssi: error: unrecognized configure key"
[21:29] <holstein> funkyHat: and no luck?
[21:30] <holstein> hmm
[21:32] <funkyHat> holstein: Oh, it's working now
[21:32] <holstein> awesome
[21:32] <holstein> i do very little MIDI
[21:32] <funkyHat> Perhaps I didn't close rosegarden properly after installing fluidsynth
[21:32] <holstein> i was scratching my head as to who could be helpful ;)
[21:33] <funkyHat> I don't really do much myself, I'm trying it out for a friend, though rosegarden looks quite good so I may play some more
[21:33] <funkyHat> Thanks ⢁)


[06:56] <mlankhorst> arges: hey
[07:02] <smb> mlankhorst, Hope you don't expect him to be around at this time of day. :)
[07:51] <infinity> zequence: I see fresh lowlatency rebases in your PPA.  Are those good and ready to be copied?
[07:52]  * infinity assumes "yes" and copies away.
[07:58] <infinity> pkern: Can we assume from your comments on bug 1300739 that it's also working for you for lts-trusty?
[09:36] <pkern> infinity: I tried the trusty kernel on precise and I tried the lts-trusty kernel on precise. Both worked fine.
[09:37] <pkern> infinity: Somewhat annoyed that the audit fix didn't make it into -30, though.
[09:38] <apw> pkern, last i looked they hadn't settled on a sane fix for that, a lot of "this doesn't fix blah and i don't care" going on
[09:41] <pkern> apw: Tempting to just divert the x32 ld-linux away.
[09:41] <pkern> I think my initial fix was pretty close to fixing stuff. One could've switcheroo'ed the arch designation, but meh.
[09:42] <trippeh_> x32, ugh
[09:42] <apw> pkern, yeah i asume the issue here is there is noone stepping up to care about x32 upstream
[09:42] <trippeh_> buggy POS ;)
[09:43] <trippeh_> and security hazard
[09:52] <infinity> trippeh_: Security hazard how?  Because one security bug was found in it?
[09:52] <infinity> pkern: Seems odd that production machines would have libc6-x32 installed in the first place.
[09:52] <trippeh_> because it is messy and is bitrotting, as far as I understood the discussions on lkml some time ago
[09:53] <trippeh_> they besicly regretted merging it
[09:53] <infinity> trippeh_: Upstream regrests merging nearly everything, I think I'd take that with a grain of salt unless I read the thread in question and put it in context.
[09:54] <trippeh_> ok, I think the wording was something like "horrible mess"
[09:54] <trippeh_> ;)
[09:57] <trippeh_> its a while ago, but I doubt much has changed
[10:05] <pkern> infinity: gcc-multilib
[10:05] <pkern> infinity: Because engineering.
[10:06] <infinity> pkern: Fair enough.  What was the bug again?  As much as we're fans of "upstream first", I vaguely recall your patch being trivial enough that maybe we should JFDI as Ubuntu saucy for the next cycle.
[10:06] <infinity> apw: Opinions?
[10:06] <infinity> s/saucy/sauce/
[10:06] <infinity> Stupid release names breaking my ability to type.
[10:06] <apw> infinity, i think the issue was it fixed the bit in question but broke auditing or something, and upsteam instrad of helping went all postal on auditing
[10:07] <pkern> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eglibc/+bug/1302605
[10:07] <pkern> apw: Ack.
[10:07] <pkern> It was a bit inconsistent to have two syscall paths both yield to auditing, one with arch=i386 and one with arch=amd64.  But it's not my choice to make.
[10:10] <apw> no indeed, helping make it less crap and work mostly would have been nice
[14:34] <marvin24> hi and maybe silly question
[14:34] <marvin24> which modules belong to debian.master/d-i/modules/kernel-image
[14:35] <marvin24> ?
[15:17] <apw> marvin24, that is the d-i module kernel-image which contains the kernel
[19:12] <marvin24> apw: ok, so this affects only debian installer (not the kernel in a installed system)
[20:05] <apw> marvin24, it defines a grouping of files for installation into the image which becomes the CDs yes
[20:07] <marvin24> apw: the reason I'm asking is that I want to get the utopic kernel booting on my tegra2 netbook
[20:07] <marvin24> it seems that srwarren (from nv) added a lots of tegra specific drivers to kernel-image
[20:08] <apw> hmmm, that sounds like it owuld be odne if they wern't already in the right places
[20:08] <marvin24> in fact, the generic kernel already boots fine, but misses the tegra-drm module
[20:09] <apw> and likely that should be in the appropriate other d-i module for arm
[20:09] <marvin24> I can submit a patch to fix this, but I wonder if I should also add it to kernel-image
[20:09] <marvin24> yes, maybe some video module
[20:10] <marvin24> on the other hand, some modules are necessary to get the system to some useful state, e.g. regulators, i2c
[20:11] <marvin24> so kernel-image should be ok
[20:11] <marvin24> but I'm not an d-i expert
[20:14] <apw> likely things like that would be in kernel, not 100% sure myself, i'd say make the patch send it to kernel-team@ list, and i can talk it through with the d-i folk to make sure it is appropriate
[20:20] <marvin24> apw: yes, the real problem is that everything is a module, but I guess that won't change
[22:19] <hans109h> apw, any progress?


[01:15] <teward[m]> Fallen ilvipero  did you both get my forwarded email?
 "Fallen ilvipero  did you both..." <- I got your email
[04:34] <teward[m]> cool just making sure it got sent
[04:34] <teward[m]> 'cause right after i had about a dozen things asplode sending outbound
[04:38] <ilvipero> teward @teward:matrix.thomas-ward.net: no worries. Appreciate your help.
[04:38] <teward[m]> yep, but also wanted to keep you guys apprised
[04:39] <teward[m]> for obvious reasons :p
[04:40] <ilvipero> Yeah, If there is anything I can do, reach out to me.
[04:40] <ilvipero> And of course enjoy your weekend!
[04:40] <teward[m]> yep i intend to.  *goes right to bed because tired*


[00:57] <Bashing-om> guiverc_w: Wow, you do 4 summaries to my one ! I see if I can do the Hub later tonight and we have Sat/Sun to flesh out and polish what we have .
[01:00] <guiverc> probably practice...  i've written summaries for ~90 published issues...
[01:01] <guiverc> (also you spend more energy/thought on how to write; I can't write well so just spit it out with regard only for syntax..)
[01:07] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Well, I have to read 3 times for comprehension - then compare what I have wrote that it menas what the originator wrote :)
[01:07] <Bashing-om> means* - my dyslexia gets me again .
[01:11] <guiverc> some articles do require many many reads i find too...  however i think i've got to know the way common writers (marius, joey, ..) write and thus can quickly scan & comprehend.... though my results are bot-like, especially if compared with what you achieve..
[01:23] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Thanks, but our "editor at large" has a difference of opinion :)
[06:15] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: Mystery Donation Lets Elementary Hire Full-Time Staff @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/?p=134005 (by Joey Sneddon)
[10:59] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Valorie Zimmerman: Life in Deventer @ http://linuxgrandma.blogspot.com/2018/08/life-in-deventer.html (by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>(Valorie Zimmerman))


[00:11] <korn788> hello
[00:13] <korn788> ok so ive been using windows media center for watching tv and ive tried mythtv before but i have a set top box and couldn't figure out how to get mythubuntu working with my set top box
[00:14] <korn788> is there anyone that has verzion fios and mythubuntu that can help get it work
[00:48] <korn788>  ok so ive been using windows media center for watching tv and ive tried mythtv before but i have a set top box and couldn't figure out how to get mythubuntu working with my set top box
[00:49] <korn788> is there anyone that has verzion fios and mythubuntu that can help get it work
[20:06] <qwebirc70882> does anyone have advice on cpu/mobo for a backend? preferably mitx with a pci slot so i can use my existing tv card
[20:17] <Korny> I use a i3 with a generic micro atx board, with 6 sata slots
[20:18] <Korny> that also acts as a frontend for my livingroom and has a passively cooled nvidia card, draws 40 watts at idle and 50-55 with 7 recordings going and watching a show on the frontend
[23:19] <NewBuntu81-2> Does anyone know if you can connect a frontend with mythtv 0.25 to a backend with 0.24?  I don't want to upgrade my backend.  But the updates in Mythbuntu 12.04 kernel are favorable to my hardware.
[23:58] <Shadow__X> NewBuntu81-2 the versions need to match


[00:14] <darkxst> Noskcaj, there was a reason devhelp was stuck on 3.8
[01:16] <Noskcaj> darkxst, and that was?
[01:46] <darkxst> Noskcaj, not entirely sure, maybe buggy UI
[01:47] <darkxst> check with seb
[02:46] <Noskcaj> ok
[02:46] <Noskcaj> ANy idea why the libgweather merge has been ignored?
[02:53] <darkxst> Noskcaj, its not showing in the queue (and I can't upload it)
[02:55] <Noskcaj> it's an ubuntu-desktop package, but sponsors should be subscribed
[02:56] <darkxst> it would be in the sponsor queue if sponsors was subscribed!
[03:01] <darkxst> Noskcaj, and it will likely go unnoticed if not in the queue ;)
[03:22]  * darkxst should really get around to applying for -desktop
[03:30] <darkxst> ahoneybun, hey
[03:31] <darkxst> ahoneybun, oh dear, did you forget just about everything!
[03:31] <ahoneybun> ...maybe
[03:32] <darkxst> anyway keep playing around, read the man pages for commands you don't understand! I am sure it will all come back pretty quickly!
[03:32]  * ahoneybun is a bit discourged
[03:33] <ahoneybun> btw gnome-control-center 3.12 fixed the issue I had
[03:33] <darkxst> ahoneybun, first call when a command fails, is `man <command>`
[03:33] <ahoneybun> yea
[03:34] <ahoneybun> I have 14.04 on my powerful/gaming/class notebook and 14.10 on my spare macbook
[03:35]  * darkxst only has 14.04 in VM's
[03:36] <darkxst> my sources.list files on real hardware track 'devel'
[03:39] <darkxst> ahoneybun, btw once you understand the half dozen or so commands, packaging itself it fairly straight forward
[03:39] <ahoneybun> nice
[03:39]  * ahoneybun does not believe that
[03:39] <darkxst> its the patching/bug fixing that is far more involved
[03:40] <darkxst> ahoneybun, ask Noskcaj!
[03:40] <ahoneybun> darkxst: seems that most have patches
[03:40] <ahoneybun> I think ricoz is tired of me lol
[03:41] <ahoneybun> I have my notebook, macbook and a spare monitor on one keyboard and one mouse
[03:41] <darkxst> I think ricotz was annoyed you asking questions, that could have easily be answered by a quick google
[03:42] <darkxst> ahoneybun, synergy?
[03:42] <ahoneybun> yep
[03:42] <darkxst> I used to use that, but now just have 3 monitors on my desktop ;)
[03:43] <ahoneybun> yea but I have 2 machines
[03:43] <ahoneybun> so
[03:44] <ahoneybun> gnome shell is like flying when it comes to multi tasking
[03:47] <darkxst> ahoneybun, how many machines do you think I have?
[03:47] <ahoneybun> who knows
[03:48] <darkxst> try guess!
[03:49] <ahoneybun> 3?
[03:50] <darkxst> ahoneybun, desktop, 2 headless servers, laptop, vps and direct access to dedi server when I need it
[03:51] <darkxst> thats a little more than 3!
[03:51] <ahoneybun> well
[03:51] <ahoneybun> I have 1 server lol
[03:51]  * darkxst would love to add a jetson tk1 to that list, but they are hard to get in Aus
[03:52] <Noskcaj> I've got laptop, gaming pc, and 3 not finished testing pcs
[03:52] <darkxst> or impossible even
[03:53] <darkxst> Noskcaj, you would be far more productive if you didnt have a gaming pc ;)
[03:53] <Noskcaj> true. but dota
[03:54] <ahoneybun> Noskcaj: windows or linux?
[03:55] <Noskcaj> windows on the gaming pc (dota on linux is always broken)
[03:55] <Noskcaj> xubuntu 14.10 on the laptop
[03:55] <darkxst> lol, I have free valve the ubuntu/debian dev steam thing, but have only played max 10mins!
[03:55] <ahoneybun> I have a ps3 for most things
[03:55] <ahoneybun> steam machine?
[03:55] <darkxst> ahoneybun, valve give free subscriptions to debian/ubuntu debs
[03:55] <darkxst> devs
[03:56] <ahoneybun> devs?
[03:56] <darkxst> for all valve games
[03:56] <darkxst> yes devs
[03:56] <ahoneybun> oh did not see that last part
[03:56] <darkxst> (i.e anyone with upload rights to the main archives)
[03:56] <Noskcaj> darkxst, I'll have to get ubuntu hats made that we can get too
[03:56] <Noskcaj> becuase valve
[03:57] <darkxst> Noskcaj, you mean Ubuntu GNOME hats :)
[03:58] <Noskcaj> :)
[04:07] <Noskcaj> why does gnome weather need a thousand new b-deps for one test?
[04:11] <darkxst> no idea
[04:12] <darkxst> though I doubt its really a thousand!
[04:15] <darkxst> in fact, I don't see any new build-deps
[04:16] <darkxst> (coverage and dogtail can be disabled)
[07:13] <DefragDoll> Hey, can someone help me out? I've got an Nvidia card (either a gtx 680 or gt 680 I can't recall the details, I'm a noob) and an EVGA x58 FTW3 Motherboard, and I can't seem to get HDMI audio working under Trusty, when the vanilla Ubuntu release seems to have HDMI audio for this card working prety much "out of the box" so to speak. So I'm trying to figure what is different between the Ubuntu release and the Ubuntu GNOME re
[07:13] <DefragDoll> lease that is keeping me from getting my HDMI sound working. Any help would be appreciated and I hope I haven't been too vague.
[07:17] <DefragDoll> b4el: Hey, can you help me out? I've got an Nvidia gtx 680 and an EVGA x58 FTW3 Motherboard, and I can't seem to get HDMI audio working under Trusty, when the vanilla Ubuntu release seems to have HDMI audio for this card working prety much "out of the box" so to speak. So I'm trying to figure what is different between the Ubuntu release and the Ubuntu GNOME release that is keeping me from getting my HDMI sound working. An
[07:17] <DefragDoll> y help would be appreciated.
[07:17] <darkxst> DefragDoll, I don't think there is any really difference
[07:18] <darkxst> between vanilla ubuntu and ubuntu GNOME when it comes to audio]
[07:18] <DefragDoll> yeah but there obviously is, or else there would be no difference in the functioning
[07:18] <darkxst> are you using the nvidia blobs?
[07:18] <DefragDoll> blobs?
[07:18] <darkxst> proprietry drivers
[07:19] <DefragDoll> I tried the xorg driver and it doesn't work, so thein I tried the the Nvidia driver that said "tested" and it didnt seem to either but also crashed my x session on me atone point too
[07:19] <darkxst> hdmi audio is working fine here, although I am on 14.10 + gnome3-staging ppa
[07:20] <darkxst> I have heard lots of reports of issues with hdmi audio on noveau
[07:20] <DefragDoll> ok, hmm, let me try the NVIDA blogs again
[07:20] <darkxst> *blobs*!
[07:22] <darkxst> try with nvidia-331
[07:23] <DefragDoll> yeah I'm a bit of a bad typist
[07:23] <DefragDoll> I meant blobs hehe
[07:26] <DefragDoll> Should I reboot after changing drivers? My brain tells me that's MSWin logic speaking, but do you think it would be helpful anyway?
[07:26] <darkxst> DefragDoll, you need to alteast restart X, but reboot is probably easiest!
[07:27] <DefragDoll> Ok, I'll be back in just a few.
[07:27] <DefragDoll> Thanks.
[07:32] <DefragDoll> darkxst: DERP! That was all I needed was a flippin restart. I don't think I've ever felt like such a noob in my life! XD
[07:32] <DefragDoll> darkxst: LOL thanks.
[07:34] <darkxst> p
[07:35] <darkxst> np
[07:37] <DefragDoll> Guess that's what happens when you try to troubleshoot in the midst of a migraine, the simplest things can run right past ya.
[07:44] <darkxst> DefragDoll, don't worry I usually get a migraine when I have to use MS crap
[07:47] <DefragDoll> Haha ya I hear ya
[07:59] <Noskcaj> I'm slowly working on the list of other packages
[08:39] <darkxst> Noskcaj, ok, thanks!
[08:40] <Noskcaj> Still no replys from sugar and kde though
[08:40] <darkxst> upstream or debian?
[08:41] <Noskcaj> debian and upstream for sugar, ubuntu for kde
[08:41] <darkxst> I though I saw kde patches floating around?
[08:43] <darkxst> and sugar is more often than not just a pita
[08:47] <Noskcaj> kde has probably done it
[08:47] <Noskcaj> i just don't know their exact needs
[09:07] <darkxst> Noskcaj, I don't care much for Kubuntu, I think their attacks on MIR were childish at best
[10:16] <framac_> Hi I've just installed ubuntu-gnome 14.04 and installed the gnome ppas. When I go to gnome extensions website it doens't detect it, any suggestions?
[10:18] <darkxst> framac, what browser?
[10:18] <framac> chrome
[10:22] <darkxst> framac, latest chrome is broken, use firefox
[10:22] <darkxst> (chrome dropped npapi, which is required for the extension plugin that makes things work)
[10:26] <framac> darkxst: thks just tested with firefox and it's working just fine.
[10:27] <darkxst> framac, there is an upstream bug for chrome support
[10:27] <darkxst> no idea, if they consider it important enough to port the pluging over to ppapi
[10:31] <framac> darkxst: I'm using the gnome-staging ppa. Do you think it's stable enough for daily use
[10:31] <darkxst> framac, yes
[10:32] <darkxst> atleast while it is at 3.12
[10:32] <framac> darkxst: sometimes the system feel to hang just a little bit.
[10:33] <darkxst> there will be probably be a couple of rough bumps once we transition to 3.13 on utopic
[10:33] <framac> darkxst: are there any plans for backporting gnome 3.14 to 14.04?
[10:33] <darkxst> framac, that is about the most useless comment anyone could make!
[10:33] <darkxst> framac, and nope, that won't happen
[10:34] <framac> darkxst: I'm also having some problem with external monitors setup. To which package should a file a bug. I'm using the nouveau driver.
[10:35] <darkxst> framac, try with the nvidia drivers, if its still an issue there, just file againt gnome-shell
[10:35] <darkxst> actually just file against gnome-shell'
[10:36] <framac> well , with nvidia drivers. I can't even pass the login screen
[17:41] <allstarsnorks2> Hi guys. I'm currently remastering Ubuntu GNOME. How do I make sure the GNOME Extensions that I installed launch when I boot into my remastered Ubuntu GNOME?
[22:31] <mkdmz> Can someone help me with creating a mimetype for my applications custom docuements?  I want the applcation icon to show up for my custom documents.  I have a question here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/483396/how-do-i-set-up-a-custom-icons-for-my-pygi-app-documents
[22:59] <darkxst> mkdmz icon come from .desktop files
[23:00] <mkdmz> ok, can you tell me in that link, where I am going wrong?
[23:00] <mkdmz> My application creates new documents, so I want a special icon to show up for those documents.
[23:04] <darkxst> mkdmz, does you desktop file work? ie does you app show up in shell overview apps?
[23:04] <mkdmz> The desktop file works.  I it shows my icon.  I launches my app.  But that's not my question.
[23:05] <mkdmz> My app creates files, those files a json text files.  They can only be opened by my app.  They have an extesion.  I want the file manager to show a custom icon for those extensions.
[23:07] <mkdmz> My extesion does not exist on the system, so I followed online wikis and Official Ubuntu documentation, but they don't work.
[23:10] <darkxst> mkdmz, I don't really know
[23:10] <mkdmz> That's too bad, we are the majority.  Where is the community?
[23:10] <darkxst> however try dropping the magic tags from your xml file (or update the search value to something that really exists in your file?)
[23:12] <mkdmz> I'm following some scatter advice, I have no idea if any one of these people really know what the hell is going on.
[23:12] <darkxst> delete "<magic priority="50">
[23:12] <darkxst>        <match value="search-string" type="string" offset="10:140"/>
[23:12] <darkxst>      </magic>"
[23:13] <darkxst> you only need the glob if you are just doing extension matching
[23:13] <mkdmz> Ok, I'll take out that property
[23:13] <mkdmz> Yeah, but would this magic interfere?  Should glob just work ?
[23:14] <mkdmz> If magic doesn't find anything, but glob does, it seems like the icon should appear for my docs?
[23:15] <darkxst> mkdmz, I suspect it may want to match both
[23:15] <mkdmz> I could put a magic number in there for the json file.
[23:15] <mkdmz> You think so?  Ok,  I'll give that a shot.
[23:15] <darkxst> no you really don't want to use magic, it is slow!
[23:17] <mkdmz> I just copied that,  I didn't think about.  So, that must be how it can find a file type that has no ext?
[23:20] <darkxst> mkdmz, this is half the problem, people just cut+paste any old thing from the internet!
[23:20] <darkxst> without thinking or understanding!
[23:21] <darkxst> mkdmz, also the filename of the xml file, should probably match your mime-type
[23:21] <darkxst> i.e. x-story.xml
[23:22] <mkdmz> what is the x for , I'm assuming execute
[23:22] <mkdmz> But, my extension is ".story"
[23:23] <darkxst> mkdmz, your mimetype is "x-story"
[23:23] <mkdmz> so x means extension then?
[23:24] <darkxst> mkdmz, its probably just arbitrary, maybe related to X11 ;)
[23:25] <mkdmz> I've noticed that in some places there is an x with an extension name, then in some cases there isn't.  I haven't figured out the pattern or no why, part of why I don't know what is going on wit the x.
[23:26] <mkdmz> Where I need it, where I don't, just doesn't make sense.
[23:26] <darkxst> it will be nothing more than a naming convention
[23:26] <darkxst> just make sure things all match up!
[23:28] <mkdmz> I removed the magic property from the xml file.  I log out/in.  Doesn't have the icon.  Doesn't launch my app when I click on it.  I updated the icon cache and mime data base as well.
[23:32] <darkxst> http://pastebin.com/6eX3ukqe
[23:41] <mkdmz> ok, I'm am trying text/x-story now.  Although.  I'm wondering if application is the problem.
[23:46] <ahoneybun> darkxst: I see nvidia driver for dual graphic laptops are not working
[23:46] <mkdmz> darkxst: Have you tried just created a document like document.myExt and going through this process?  Are you using ubunutu gnome?  It doesn't take that long, it just taking me so long because I have to try every million como's.
[23:46] <mkdmz> combos
[23:47] <darkxst> ahoneybun, it should be working in utopic, needs to be backported to trusty though
[23:47] <ahoneybun> darkxst: I see
[23:47] <ahoneybun> I say you in a bug report talking about it
[23:47] <ahoneybun> *saw
[23:48] <darkxst> ahoneybun, ppa:darkxst/gdm-prime
[23:48] <ahoneybun> does that hold the nvidia stuff for trusty?
[23:49] <darkxst> yes
[23:50] <ahoneybun> seems the only reason I cared about it (a game not working with the free nvidia driver) is kinda working in Ubuntu GNOME with it
[23:50] <ahoneybun> weird did not work in kubuntu with the free nvidia driver
[23:50] <darkxst> ahoneybun, kdm has not been patched afaik
[23:51] <ahoneybun> kdm was not the problem because kubuntu uses lightdm
[23:51] <ahoneybun> it worked fine just me a message about dvms not loading or something but I hit okay and it worked fine
[23:52] <ahoneybun> now that ppa has drivers and gdm
[23:53] <ahoneybun> but I think that is a older version of gdm I have the gnome3 and staging ppas on
[23:54]  * ahoneybun kinda wanted to try out fedora 20
[23:55] <ahoneybun> darkxst: now if I installed the nonfree nvidia driver with the add driver app it will not get stuck at the loading screen?
[23:56] <darkxst> gdm on -staging might not have the fix, not sure
[23:57] <ahoneybun> sounds like fin
[23:57] <ahoneybun> *fun