[02:50] <liuxg> does anyone know how to fix the orientation in QML application. I want to have the landscape orientation for a game.
[03:54] <lotuspsychje> morning to all
[05:11] <MoPac> Anyone know if the ARChon hack in Chrome to run native Android apps would work in Touch?
[05:28] <dholbach> good morning
[07:51] <joachimvda> I am correct in assuming that the current devel build (243) should be the same as the RTM?
[07:51] <joachimvda> I have seen screenshots of RTM which contains buttons and title which I don't see in my RTM build.
[07:52] <RAOF> I don't think the current devel build is the same as the RTM build, but I haven't been following particularly closely.
[07:52] <sil2100> joachimvda: RTM and utopic (devel) might not be completely in sync, so some package can still be in the review queue
[07:53] <sil2100> joachimvda: so there might be differences
[07:53] <sil2100> joachimvda: its due to the requirement that ubuntu-rtm only has that which is well tested, so sometimes QA sign-off can take some time
[08:05] <nhaines> I was trying to figure out what changed about the keyboard lately.
[08:06] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Psychotherapy Day! :-D
[09:21] <touch1> apologies, sure you've heard this question 100 times, but is the FAQ accurate in predicting Touch devices in October 2014?
[09:21] <touch1> On a dumb-phone following a breakage of my n900 :( and trying to figure if it's worth the wait.
[09:28] <tsdgeos> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/ubuntu-system-settings/addi18ntr/+merge/235922
[09:29] <seb128> tsdgeos, thanks, can you get the pot update out of the mp though please?
[09:29] <tsdgeos> seb128: out?
[09:29] <tsdgeos> why?
[09:29] <seb128> tsdgeos, yes, don't update it
[09:30] <seb128> tsdgeos, because we have like 3 mps changing strings in the queue and if they all update the pot we get conflicts and need to rebease each of those
[09:30] <tsdgeos> seb128: ok
[09:30] <seb128> easier to just commit a "update the pot" manually when things land
[09:30] <seb128> thanks
[09:30] <tsdgeos> seb128: if you're going to remember ;)
[09:31] <seb128> don't worry
[09:31] <seb128> we do those updates like three time a week atm
[09:31] <tsdgeos> anyway, removed
[09:31] <seb128> thanks
[09:31] <seb128> urg, ctrl-r on irc
[09:34] <tsdgeos> seb128: there's also
[09:34] <tsdgeos> ./share/ubuntu/settings/system/qml-plugins/about/PageComponent.qml:                        text: ""
[09:34] <tsdgeos> ./share/ubuntu/settings/system/qml-plugins/about/PageComponent.qml:                text: "IMEI"
[09:34] <tsdgeos> which i decided were find without the i18n.tr
[09:35] <seb128> tsdgeos, right, those have been excluded on purpose
[09:36] <touch1> i'll rephrase: where is the best place for the latest info on usable/workable touch devices? (if not here!)
[09:39] <gcollura> Can anyone help me with phablet-demo-setup? Is this tool supposed to work?
[09:39] <gcollura> I need some fake data on some devices
[09:40] <popey> gcollura: i dont thnk it's been updated forever
[09:40] <gcollura> popey, oh :(
[09:41] <gcollura> I'll see if I can update it to make it work again
[09:52] <gcollura> ogra_, are you currently working on bug 1373779?
[09:53] <ogra_> gcollura, no i have some other critical bugs to work on first, but it is on my todo
[09:54] <gcollura> ogra_, ok, since I need this tools for tomorrow, I'll see what I can do, just wanted to make sure we are not stepping on each other feet
[09:55] <gcollura> thanks anyway :)
[09:55] <ogra_> i'll try to come up with something tonight (no promises though)
[10:08] <vitimiti> hi
[10:13] <gcollura> ogra_, since phablet is the default account we don't need to run 'su -c phablet -c ...' which requires password, right?
[10:13] <ogra_> you shoould never run su anyway :)
[10:13] <ogra_> but no, not needed anymore
[10:14] <gcollura> ogra_, ok I found how to fix everything I guess :)
[10:14] <ogra_> gcollura, iirc there is an "adb root" call in that script, remove it ... it will not work and cause havoc
[10:15] <gcollura> yeah, that and a "su - phablet" in the script
[10:15] <ogra_> right, but iirc it also tries to install deb packages
[10:15] <gcollura> nope
[10:15] <ogra_> and that needs some bigger changes
[10:15] <ogra_> oh
[10:15] <gcollura> this script just pushes some tgz to the device and extract them
[10:16] <chrisc> btw bash on ubuntu-touch appear to have a vunerable bash on it
[10:17] <chrisc> env X="() { :;} ; echo busted" `which bash` -c "echo completed"
[10:17] <chrisc> busted
[10:17] <ogra_> chrisc, on the very latest image ?
[10:17] <gcollura> chrisc, ubuntu desktop trusty does too
[10:18] <gcollura> updated today
[10:19] <chrisc> ogra_: no it's a image from a few days ago, with a rw root and apt-get update run on it
[10:19] <ogra_> chrisc, well ...
[10:20] <chrisc> well i neeeded screen so i could have more than one terminal session!
[10:20] <ogra_> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/utopic/+source/bash/4.3-9ubuntu2
[10:20] <ogra_> seems it didnt come out of utopic-proposed yet
[10:20] <ogra_> i know it is in the rtm images though
[10:21] <ogra_> (utopic is more of a developer playground since we have rtm ... which is the only QAed image we have now)
[10:21] <[mbm]> echo get{{e,}{g,u}id,groups}"(){return 0;}"|gcc -shared -x c - -o /tmp/root.so;LD_PRELOAD=/tmp/root.so bash
[10:22] <ogra_> http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/rtm/60.changes
[10:22] <ogra_> rtm #60 and above have the fixed bash
[10:26] <chrisc> ogra_: what is rtm? sorry i only installed ubuntu on a nexus 5 this week...
[10:26] <ogra_> our "release to manufacturer" image ... that is what will be the default image on the preinstalled devices
[10:27] <ogra_> read: our default release ... it is its own distro ... utopic is only used as staging upload area currently
[10:32] <chrisc> ogra_: thanks, so i'd be better off switching to that?
[10:32] <ogra_> depends what you want ... the latest and greatest (but also all the bugs) is utopic ... the solid and tested stuff is in rtm
[10:33] <chrisc> rtm sounds good, can i switch to that via editing apt sources.list or do i have to use adb to install a new image?
[10:35] <ogra_> you have to flash a new image ... as i said, it is a completely different distro
[10:35] <ogra_> different archive server, different distro name (ubuntu-rtm ... vs ubuntu)
[10:39] <chrisc> ogra_: thanks
[10:44] <gcollura> ogra_, rebooting the device isn't really required, should I leave it or remove it?
[10:45] <gcollura> ogra_, I fixed the script btw
[10:57] <ogra_> gcollura, drop it
[10:58] <ogra_> (and send me a patch or perge proposal or so, i can merge that in ... )
[11:03] <gcollura> ogra_, done
[11:09] <chrisc> ogra_: to install rtm I just s/devel/ubuntu-rtm/ when I run ubuntu-device-flash?
[11:09] <ogra_> ubuntu-device-flash --list-channels |grep rtm
[11:10] <ogra_> see what options are there ...
[11:10] <chrisc> thanks :-)
[11:10] <ogra_> (not sure what Tassadar imports or if he even offers rtm for N5)
[11:11] <Tassadar> I do
[11:11] <ogra_> :)
[11:11] <Tassadar> ^^
[11:28] <gcollura> ogra_, I removed the chown commands
[11:29] <ogra_> gcollura, did you test without them too ? :)
[11:29] <gcollura> which were not necessary anymore
[11:29] <gcollura> yep
[11:29] <ogra_> just to make sure
[11:29] <ogra_> cool !
[11:46] <gcollura> ogra_, it would be nice to have some sample music too :) the problem is where to find it
[11:47] <ogra_> well, at some free music library online i guess
[11:49] <popey> gcollura: i use these guys music "Intercontinental Music Lab" - cc licensd https://www.jamendo.com/en/artist/343348/intercontinental-music-lab
[11:49] <popey> loads of it, artwork in there too
[11:50] <gcollura> popey, oh nice :)
[11:52] <ogra_> popey, well, could we just tar it up somewhere ? (iirc cwayne has a tarball with all demo content in bzr)
[11:54]  * popey uploads
[11:55] <gcollura> ogra_, here http://people.canonical.com/~cwayne/phablet-tools
[11:55] <cwayne> oh man when did i do that
[11:55] <gcollura> lol
[11:55] <popey> in the past
[11:55] <ogra_> when you were fat
[11:55] <ogra_> :)
[11:55] <gcollura> 25 sep 2013 cwayne
[11:55] <cwayne> ogra_: lol it's funny cus it's true
[11:56] <ogra_> i know, i read G+ ;)
[11:56] <cwayne> :P
[11:56] <gcollura> if cwayne uploads some music there I can update the script easily :)
[11:56] <cwayne> but yeah, once i saw that email today i added fix demo-setup to my 'id like to do this if i have time' list
[11:57] <cwayne> gcollura: i had some somewhere (from jamendo) let me take a lookie
[11:57] <gcollura> ok :)
[12:00] <lool> ev: heya
[12:00] <lool> ev: whoopsie's unique id changes across reboots on rtm; I believe this is what the whoopsie version fixes in utopic
[12:00] <lool> ev: are you pushing that through to rtm?
[12:01] <lool> ev: possibly you want to close https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/whoopsie/+bug/1339916
[12:07] <popey> gcollura: http://people.canonical.com/~alan/IntercontinentalMusicLab.tgz some music for you
[12:08] <gcollura> popey, oh nice thank you :)
[12:09] <popey> np
[12:13] <Hightower_> o/
[12:13] <Hightower_> Anyone got touch on a galaxy s4?
[12:13] <ogra_> !devices | Hightower_
[12:14] <Hightower_> That's not what I asked
[12:14] <ogra_> though i'm pretty sure most of these images are outdated
[12:14] <Hightower_> I asked if anyone here had it :)
[13:04] <dbarth> ogra_: hi; i've noticed that dungeon fury doesn't want to start anymore on my slightly hacked #42
[13:05] <dbarth> ogra_: you aware of a change in the game?
[13:05] <ogra_> dbarth, i have to look into my webapps ... might be that providers changed their javascript checks nnoticing i access the games directly etc
[13:08] <dbarth> ah
[13:08] <dbarth> ogra_: i've seen it dumps a lot of javascript debug code
[13:08] <dbarth> in the logs
[13:08] <dbarth> i'll hope it's not a regression in our stack, but let me know when you have the time to check
[13:10] <ogra_> dbarth, most likely after i fixed all my critical bugs :)
[13:10]  * ogra_ has three or four left
[13:24] <ybon> humm, I've tried to install the last image from ubuntu-touch/ubuntu-rtm/14.09 but now the phone wont boot, and if I try to install back to devel, it indeed complains about adb not available (given that the phone hasn't boot), any way to move forward?
[13:29] <ogra_> ybon, what device ?
[13:30] <ybon> ogra_: nexus4
[13:30] <mvo> cjwatson: would you (or someone else) mind if I seed some qt5 libs explicitly to sdk-libs? http://paste.ubuntu.com/8425519/ - this is part of the work to identify automatically if a click needs to ship libs that are not part of a framework
[13:31] <ogra_> ybon, just boot into recovery and flash from there
[13:31] <ogra_> note that you need the --device option when in recovery
[13:31] <ybon> how do you boot in recovery? :)
[13:32] <ybon> http://www.android.gs/how-to-enter-google-nexus-4-recovery-mode/ :)
[13:33] <ybon> thanks ogra_ :)
[13:33] <ogra_> :)
[13:40] <jgdx> kenvandine, take a peak at [1] when you have the chance? :) Thanks [1] https://code.launchpad.net/~jonas-drange/ubuntu-system-settings/wifi-connect-is-not-dialog-fix-1366006/+merge/234842
[13:51] <tedg> pitti, Can I get you to update this branch to trunk? The upstart version changed: https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/ubuntu-app-launch/upstart-dep/+merge/233172
[14:03] <ybon> meeeeh, it wont even boot after reinstalling #243 from devel :(
[14:04] <popey> ybon: you sure it's not just taking a long time to boot?
[14:04] <popey> for me, apparmor_parser takes a long time (minutes)
[14:05] <ybon> seems like it's on "Evilgle" screen since a long time now
[14:05] <ybon> but let me wait a bit more in case :)
[14:06] <jdstrand> you can adb shell/phablet-shell and use top to see if apparmor_parser is running
[14:06] <ybon> I don't see it
[14:06] <ybon> I see systemd thing
[14:07] <ybon> panic/adbd
[14:07] <ybon>  /init
[14:08] <cjwatson> mvo_: seems reasonable to me
[14:12] <ogra_> ybon, popey, 243 (mako) was the one with screwed graphics driver
[14:12] <ogra_> iirc
[14:13] <ybon> oh
[14:13] <popey> oh
[14:13] <ogra_> :)
[14:13] <ybon> I thoughts I was on it before installing krilling
[14:13] <ogra_> use something newer
[14:13] <ybon> let me try another one :)
[14:13] <ogra_> i'm not 100% sure it was that version, but i think it was
[14:14] <ybon> let's try stable channel
[14:14] <ogra_> uh, stable is ages old
[14:14] <ogra_> use devel if anything
[14:14] <ybon> ok
[14:15] <ybon> I'm checking the email from Lukasz now, and he talks about #243 as last promoted one
[14:15] <ybon> so I think I was on this image this morning
[14:15] <ybon> I mean since last week, so
[14:15] <ybon> without problem
[14:19]  * ogra_ checks
[14:19] <ogra_> ybon, right, the broken one was 252
[14:20] <ybon> ok
[14:20] <ybon> so let's try reinstalling #243 again (done that somes minutes ago, but, who knows)
[14:25] <mterry> kenvandine, ok, the unity8 branches that my USS ui refresh branch needed have been approved -- not landed, but approved
[14:42] <ybon> meeeeeh, stil no luck :(
[14:42] <ybon> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8425912/ <= dmesg, does that ring a bell to someone by chance?
[14:42] <ybon> http://i.imgur.com/mXtfVsX.png <= top
[14:43] <ybon> cat: can't open '/var/log/syslog': No such file or directory
[14:43] <ybon> weird
[14:46] <oSoMoN> ogra_, hey, are you still seeing bug #1243128 ?
[14:46] <ogra_> oSoMoN, long gone
[14:47] <oSoMoN> ogra_, cool, I’ll mark it fixed then, thanks
[14:48] <oSoMoN> kgunn_, is bug #1311966 still valid?
[14:50] <kgunn_> oSoMoN: gimme a sec
[14:51] <oSoMoN> sure
[15:05] <ev> lool: not convinced it's fixed yet. I'll chase.
[15:10] <mhall119> ralsina_: ping
[15:10] <ralsina_> mhall119: pong
[15:11] <mhall119> ralsina_: are these going to be in a -doc package that I can keep up to date?
[15:11] <ralsina_> mhall119: I have not planned for that, but they could?
[15:12] <mhall119> ralsina_: actually, not these, but API docs for PushClient
[15:13] <ralsina_> mhall119: I could put the QML docs somewhere in the qtdeclarative-push-client package or a related doc package
[15:13] <mhall119> bzoltan1: Kaleo: do we have packages for qt-organizer, qt-feedback and qt-sensors API docs?
[15:14] <mhall119> ralsina_: thanks, the API website is going to be pulling all of it's content from packages soon
[15:14] <ralsina_> ahhh cool
[15:15] <mhall119> kenvandine: I also need package with QML API docs for Online Accounts, do we have one?
[15:16] <kenvandine> mhall119, qtdeclarative5-online-accounts-client-doc
[15:17] <kenvandine> accounts-qml-module-doc
[15:17] <kenvandine> mhall119, ^^
[15:18] <bzoltan1> mhall119: no, there is no doc package from the qtpim module
[15:18] <mhall119> kenvandine: which one?
[15:18] <kenvandine> probably the later
[15:18] <mhall119> bzoltan1: can we build one?
[15:18] <kenvandine> two different apis
[15:18] <bzoltan1> mhall119:  I need to check the source packges what they offer
[15:20] <mhall119> kenvandine: which one provides http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-14.10/Ubuntu.OnlineAccounts/
[15:20] <lool> ev: I tested on utopic + mako, and id was stable across reboots there
[15:20] <kenvandine> mhall119, i'm pretty sure that's accounts-qml-module-doc
[15:20] <lool> ev: HERE folks tested on krillin + rtm and it changed on each boot
[15:20] <ev> lool: ooh, that's encouraging
[15:21] <ev> that's slightly less so :)
[15:21] <mhall119> kenvandine: thanks
[15:21] <ev> oh, but expected
[15:21] <ev> right
[15:21] <kenvandine> np
[15:21] <lool> ev: yes, rtm has the old version
[15:21] <ev> bdmurray: can you arrange an upload to rtm?
[15:21] <ev> if not, let me know and I'll take care of it
[15:21] <chrisc> hi, the /etc/ssh/sshd_config file didn't get updated when i flashed by phone with the rtm version, is this to e expected?
[15:21] <lool> ev, bdmurray: thanks
[15:21] <chrisc> s/e/be/
[15:21] <bzoltan1> mhall119:  the sensors module has a doc package, but it is empty
[15:22] <chrisc> s/by/my/
[15:22] <bzoltan1> mhall119: all in all, many of the qt packages need to be fixed to provide doc and examples
[15:22] <bdmurray> ev: upload the current version of whoopsie to rtm?
[15:22] <ev> ja
[15:26] <ybon> popey, ogra_, jdstrand: any suggestion by chance, out of trying to reinstall again and again? :s
[15:30] <gcollura> what's the command to spawn notification on the device?
[15:31] <gcollura> like notify-send
[15:37] <mhall119> do we have a list of languages and keyboards available on our phones currently?
[15:43] <mhall119> popey: pmcgowan: ^^ ?
[15:45] <Elleo> mhall119: for keyboards its: arabic, chinese (pinyin), czech, danish, dutch, english, finnish, french, german, hebrew, hungarian, italian, polish, portuguese, russian, serbian, spanish and swedish
[15:46] <Elleo> mhall119: with community members working on a japanese keyboard, a scottish gaelic keyboard and an azerbaijani keyboard
[15:47] <mhall119> Elleo: someone on G+ is interested in a Persian keyboard, where can I point to them to?
[15:47] <chrisc> the rtm repos don't have screen in them?
[15:49] <popey> Elleo: do you know about the bug where the keyboard remembers passwords - like in the facebook sign in page?
[15:49] <Elleo> mhall119: there aren't any docs for creating keyboards yet (I plan to write some post-RTM though) for now the best thing to look at would probably be the recently accepted serbian MR, which'll show everything that was changed/added for that: https://code.launchpad.net/~danilo/ubuntu-keyboard/serbian-layout
[15:49] <Elleo> popey: iirc bfiller looked at that and it's because if you enter the password incorrectly a few times facebook gives you a plaintext field to enter your password in instead of a password field
[15:50] <popey> yeah, but i think it autocorrects your password triggering the issue
[15:50] <Elleo> popey: it shouldn't do any autocorrects when its a password field
[15:51] <Elleo> popey: if that's happening could you file a bug for it?
[15:51] <popey> yeah, not seen it recently but willcooke just did
[15:51] <popey> will ask him to
[15:51] <Elleo> okay, thanks
[15:56] <willcooke> popey, Elleo - yeah, it already exists
[15:58] <ahayzen_> Hi, Any one have any ideas what i have done to my device to make it launch facebook instead of music when i use music:// or album:// url dispatcher protocols?
[15:59] <Elleo> willcooke: do you have a link to it? don't think I've come across that one filed against the keyboard, and a quick scan doesn't show it against webapps-core or webbrowser-app
[16:00] <willcooke> hrm - I spoke to jdstrand about it, let me see if I can find it
[16:00] <Elleo> thanks
[16:03] <willcooke> actually, mterry you might know about this ^^^ (OSK remembering passwords)
[16:09] <chrisc> is there a repository i can add to rtm to get things like screen?
[16:12] <chrisc> and mosh...
[16:13] <jdstrand> yeah, I couldn't find it either, but I know it was reported
[16:14] <jdstrand> willcooke, Elleo: I think I was thinking of bug #1361732
[16:14] <chrisc> crap, i might switch back to the devel version at least that has the shell tools i need in the repos
[16:14] <jdstrand> willcooke, Elleo: so maybe filing a new bug is the way to go
[16:15] <jdstrand> bfiller: do you handle ubuntu-keyboard bugs, or is that someone else?
[16:15] <JMulholland> Hi all, I’m trying to get one of my reference devices working again after a recent system update killed it, anyone got a moment to help/advise in PM?
[16:15] <bfiller> jdstrand: I triage them, Elleo is the lead on the keyboard
[16:16] <gcollura> what's the "notify-send" equivalent for ubuntu touch?
[16:16] <jdstrand> ah, ok. willcooke and Elleo are already talking so I'll but out
[16:16] <jdstrand> bfiller: thanks
[16:16] <ogra_> gcollura, i think Chipaca might know
[16:16] <ogra_> i think that needs to be tied to an actual application though
[16:17] <willcooke> thx jdstrand
[16:18] <Chipaca> gcollura: what're you trying to do?
[16:18] <willcooke> Elleo, you want me to open a new one then?
[16:18] <Elleo> willcooke: yes please, that'd be great, thanks :)
[16:18] <willcooke> Elleo, can you tell me which project to file it against?  (I'm not sure if this is an OSK thing, a security thing, or what_
[16:18] <willcooke> )
[16:19] <Elleo> willcooke: file against ubuntu-keyboard for now, and I'll investigate it, it might be an oxide thing (if the password field isn't getting the right qt hints set on it), but I can figure that out :)
[16:19] <mhall119> sil2100: will utopic/devel channel get a promotion now that rtm has one?
[16:19] <willcooke> Elleo, will do, thanks a lot
[16:19] <Elleo> willcooke: no problem :)
[16:19] <gcollura> Chipaca, nothing in particular, I want to write a script that generates some notification to show off the potential of the notification system
[16:20] <Chipaca> gcollura: what is the notifications system?
[16:20] <gcollura> sorry, notification center
[16:20] <ogra_> push service ;)
[16:21] <gcollura> yep that one
[16:21] <ogra_> that is way more complicated than notify-send
[16:21] <Chipaca> yeah
[16:21] <Chipaca> and because you say script, you're probably thinking of the emerging "postal" service
[16:21] <ogra_> you will need an app ... and an actual server to handle the messages
[16:21] <Chipaca> and not push itself
[16:21] <willcooke> Elleo, erm, well this is embarrassing - now it won't do it. :)  Give me some time to work out what happened and I'll report it then
[16:22] <Elleo> willcooke: okay :)
[16:22] <Elleo> willcooke: I seem to remember some discussion about facebook in the past, where if you entered the facebook password wrong a number of times facebook switched to giving your a plain text field instead of a password field so you could see what you were entering, I don't suppose it could be that could it?
[16:22] <gcollura> ogra_, I can write a small app if necessary
[16:22] <gcollura> instead of a script
[16:23] <Chipaca> gcollura: this might be useful, although it isn't targeted at app devs: http://developer.ubuntu.com/apps/platform/guides/push-notifications-server-guide/
[16:23] <Elleo> (not sure there's much we can do in those cases, since as far as the keyboard knows its not a password any more)
[16:23] <joc> i'm having trouble bootstrapping a Nex7(deb) from the tasemnice repo - is there a channel/rev that is known to work?
[16:23]  * gcollura clicks
[16:24] <Chipaca> mhall119: have we published the more app dev friendly push docs?
[16:24] <mhall119> Chipaca: ralsina_ just sent me some today
[16:24] <Chipaca> mhall119: ah ok
[16:25] <Chipaca> gcollura: you can use a script if you're comfortable using gdbus-send (or a dbus client of your liking)
[16:25] <mhall119> Chipaca: I still need API docs though
[16:25] <Chipaca> gcollura: and assuming you run the script via adb
[16:26] <gcollura> Chipaca, ok
[16:26] <Chipaca> gcollura: gdbus call -e -d com.ubuntu.Postal -o /com/ubuntu/Postal/com_2eubuntu_2edeveloper_2ewebapps_2ewebapp_2dtwitter -m com.ubuntu.Postal.Post com.ubuntu.developer.webapps.webapp-twitter_webapp-twitter "'"'{"notification": {"sound": true}}'"'"
[16:27] <Chipaca> gcollura: that'll play a little ding sound
[16:27] <gcollura> yep it does :)
[16:27] <sil2100> mhall119: no, sadly
[16:28] <Chipaca> (pay no attention to the crazy quadruple quotes, that are there just to make the quoting of the json sane)
[16:28] <sil2100> mhall119: as per my e-mail the utopic (devel) channel has a tricky situation right now and before the fix for the media-hub/dbus-cpp issue lands there was no possibility for that
[16:28] <Chipaca> gcollura: ok, that, and the link above, should let you play to your heart's content
[16:29] <gcollura> Chipaca, thanks for the help. I have everything I needed :)
[16:30]  * Chipaca goes back to bed
[16:30] <mhall119> Chipaca: ralsina_: http://developer.ubuntu.com/apps/platform/guides/push-notifications-client-guide/
[16:35] <Chipaca> gcollura: ^ what mhall119 just said, fwiw
[16:36] <gcollura> Chipaca, mhall119 thank you all :)
[16:37] <willcooke> Elleo, ok, sussed what's going on:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-keyboard/+bug/1374039
[16:40] <Elleo> willcooke: okay, I'll take a look, thanks
[16:41] <ralsina_> mhall119: I am not sure what you mean by AI docs
[16:41] <ralsina_> mhall119: API docs
[16:41] <ralsina_> mhall119: as in autogenerated from the API? We don't have those
[16:41] <ralsina_> mhall119: but the whole API is documented in the ones you got
[16:44] <willcooke> Elleo, ignore it - I'm a moron
[16:45] <Elleo> willcooke: oh?
[16:45] <willcooke> well, actually... hrm
[16:45] <willcooke> yes - I am a moron
[16:46] <Elleo> willcooke: what was actually going on then? was it just facebook's attempt at being helpful in revealing passwords or something else?
[16:46] <willcooke> Elleo, yes - exactly, but it raises another question...
[16:47] <willcooke> so it clearly says at the top of the page, your password will be shown in clear text
[16:47] <willcooke> however, if you password was, let's say, erm.. "brainz"
[16:47] <willcooke> then auto correct would change it for you to "brains"
[16:47] <willcooke> so I can't easily type in my not-a-real-word password
[16:47] <willcooke> I /think/
[16:48] <Elleo> willcooke: the keyboard will always show your real input as the first entry in the word ribbon, so autocorrect can be overriden (but that also adds it to the dictionary)
[16:48] <popey> yeah, i don't want "Ilovezwillz" added to my dictionary.
[16:48] <Elleo> willcooke: I'm not sure there's much we can do about it though, since facebook is just saying "here's a normal text field", not "here's a text field, please disable autocorrection"
[16:48] <willcooke> Elleo, yeah you're right
[16:48] <Elleo> willcooke: unless the webapps folks can inject something via a userscript
[16:48]  * willcooke closes the bug again
[16:48] <popey> I dont believe we should add random words you typed once to a dictionary
[16:49] <willcooke> meh - that sounds hacky
[16:49] <willcooke> :)
[16:49] <Elleo> popey: at the moment we only add them if you explicitly select them from the word ribbon, we could potentially make it so you have to have added them that way more than once though
[16:49] <popey> but you _have_ to select them
[16:49] <popey> because they're "not words"
[16:49] <willcooke> ah, yes - good point
[16:49] <Elleo> yeah
[16:50] <popey> if my password is "fundge" and it offers "fudge" then I _have_ to tap "fundge" to make it use it, and then boom, its in the dictionary.
[16:50] <popey> (also, it adds a space which is infuriating)
[16:51] <Elleo> popey: yeah, but adding a count before it gets added to the dictionary would just mean the problem occurs after you've logged in $x times
[16:51] <popey> I'm not suggesting adding a count
[16:51] <popey> I'm suggesting not adding words to a dictionary unless you want to.
[16:52] <popey> Do we have an easy way to manage the contents of the dictionary?
[16:52] <popey> I mean, if it gets added, would be at least good if you can remove it
[16:52] <popey> if you say "vim ~/.foo/dictionary" I will laugh ☻
[16:52] <Elleo> popey: nope, there's design for it in system settings, but nothing implemented there yet as far as I'm aware
[16:52] <popey> k
[16:53] <willcooke> perhaps this does require a webapp shim then.
[16:53] <willcooke> The HTML field type still seems to be password
[16:53] <Elleo> willcooke: really? then it might be fixable with some changes in oxide
[16:54] <Elleo> willcooke: if it sends the keyboard the password hint based on the type rather than on it being obfuscated or not
[16:54] <Elleo> although I didn't realise you could have html password fields that were unobfuscated
[16:57]  * willcooke really should check before he says thigns
[16:57] <willcooke> and spells things
[16:57] <willcooke> anyway, the data type is password on m.facebook.com from Chromium on the desktop
[16:57] <dobey> this is why i just turn off autocorrect
[16:57] <willcooke> and it doesnt say anything about showing your password in clear on the desktop
[16:57] <dobey> and auto-insert-spaces-when-i-type-a-period
[16:58] <willcooke> so perhaps they are doing UA sniffing and something special for mobile phones
[16:58] <chrisc> hi, i want to install screen, mosh, mutt and fetchmail on rtm, as i did on utopic, is there a repo i can add to enable this?
[16:58] <chrisc> and is there a better place to ask this question?
[16:58] <Elleo> willcooke: quite possibly
[17:00] <willcooke> alex_abreu, any thoughts on this password stuff?  Basically: Facebook is un-hiding the password if you type it wrong first time on phones, and then because it's not a bona fide password field the OSK is remembering the password
[17:02] <alex_abreu> willcooke, what's the bug #?
[17:03] <willcooke> alex_abreu, there isn't one atm (I close my original one because it was junk)
[17:04] <willcooke> alex_abreu, also - I'm sure it's a real bug atm
[17:05] <alex_abreu> willcooke, at the osk level (I have to go through the logs)
[17:05] <alex_abreu> ?
[17:08] <willcooke> alex_abreu, Let me get my thoughts straight and I'll drop you a line...
[17:08] <alex_abreu> willcooke, ok
[17:10] <chrisc> i asked my question here https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg09967.html
[17:20] <mterry> willcooke, yeah I remember the issue, but what did you want to know (sorry for late reply)
[17:22] <willcooke> mterry, no worries - all sorted
[17:22] <willcooke> thanks
[17:22] <willcooke> well, it's not fixed, but the problem has grown to something new and exciting
[17:22] <willcooke> :)
[17:22] <mterry> willcooke, heh
[17:25] <kenvandine> mterry, moving here...
[17:26] <kenvandine> this is for bug 1373462
[17:26] <kenvandine> if the image size is too big, you can't even rely on the Image.status for anything
[17:26] <kenvandine> the status never changes
[17:26] <kenvandine> mterry, it was easy to work around in system-settings
[17:27] <mterry> kenvandine, why doesn't status ever change?
[17:27] <kenvandine> i think this is really a bug in the qpa or something
[17:28] <kenvandine> it never even starts loading it
[17:28] <kenvandine> afaict
[17:28] <kenvandine> i assume it needs to allocate to much memory
[17:28] <kenvandine> so restricting it with sourceSize works around it
[17:30] <kenvandine> mterry, i'd expect we'd get an error status at least... but nothing!
[17:30] <kenvandine> which is why the greeter doesn't fall back to the default
[17:31] <mterry> kenvandine, hrm...  do we set a timer and wait?  what was the workaround in USS?
[17:31] <kenvandine> just setting sourceSize
[17:31] <kenvandine> in the preview
[17:31] <kenvandine> but the greeter relies on multiple levels of loaders it looks like :)
[17:31]  * kenvandine is lost in that shell code
[17:31]  * kenvandine might never find his way back home
[17:31] <kenvandine> :-D
[17:35] <mterry> kenvandine, I know.  Shell -> Greeter -> GreeterContent
[17:35] <mterry> kenvandine, set sourceSize to what though?  Some smallish amount to reduce memory cost?
[17:35] <mterry> screen size?
[17:36] <kenvandine> screen size
[17:36] <kenvandine> well, i set it to widht and height
[17:36] <kenvandine> of the image
[17:37] <mterry> kenvandine, I feel like that should be a default maximum for sourceSize...
[17:37] <kenvandine> in some cases
[17:37] <kenvandine> imaging you change the width/height after it's loaded
[17:37] <kenvandine> it would need to recreate the original
[17:37] <kenvandine> if sourceSize is larger, it can scale faster
[17:40] <mterry> kenvandine, pfft too reasonable
[17:40] <kenvandine> but... you have to consider memory usage :)
[17:41] <kenvandine> mterry, do you think you can figure out how to deal with this in the shell?
[17:41] <kenvandine> or should i keep digging?
[17:42] <mterry> kenvandine, I'm a bit busy with something else today but I can probably figure it out faster, sure.  How urgent is it?
[17:42] <kenvandine> it really annoys me that we don't get status
[17:42] <kenvandine> the bug is marked critical :)
[17:42] <kenvandine> but
[17:42] <kenvandine> in reality you only hit it if you set the background from the camera on krillin
[17:42] <kenvandine> or some other really large image
[17:43] <kenvandine> so not super likely to bite someone today
[17:43] <kenvandine> although it bit QA of course :)
[17:43] <kenvandine> love how QA is always doing their job :-p
[17:43] <kenvandine> i'm looking at you brendand!
[17:43] <kenvandine> :-D
[17:43] <mterry> kenvandine, well if you want to assign to me and leave a comment explaining what to do (sounds like just set sourceSize = width/height, right?)  that should be as simple as adjusting the Image in GreeterContent
[17:44] <kenvandine> thanks, will do
[17:44]  * mterry goes afk for a sec
[17:44] <kenvandine> that was my thought, but then i saw that it starts out at 0
[17:44] <kenvandine> and does some magic
[18:01] <seb128> does anyone here know a way with QSettings (or another qt api) to query the localized value of a .desktop key?
[18:01] <seb128> .value("Name") from qsettings returns the Name= not the Name[locale]= variant
[18:02] <seb128> but the api doesn't seem to have a localized version
[18:06] <mterry> kenvandine, what's the bug number?
[18:06] <kenvandine> mterry, bug 1373462
[18:07] <mterry> kenvandine, so we can't know the image file's size until after we load it, which we never finish.  So I'm guessing we should just use screen size as an upper bound?
[18:08] <kenvandine> mterry, makes sense for this case
[18:08] <brendand> kenvandine, in order for it to block release it has to be critical
[18:08] <kenvandine> brendand, ah... ok :)
[18:08] <kenvandine> brendand, i proposed a branch for settings, mterry is fixing it in unity8
[18:28] <mterry> kenvandine, I can't seem to find out what happens if sourceSize is larger than the source image.  Looks like we still reserve that much memory
[18:31] <kenvandine> mterry, i think that's correct
[18:31] <mterry> kenvandine, I guess that's better than the alternative, ah well
[18:31] <kenvandine> yeah
[18:43] <seb128> kenvandine, I don't really like to workaround in settings, can't we just fix Image{} do to that by default?
[18:43] <kenvandine> not sure Image needs to be fixed
[18:44] <kenvandine> it just allocates the memory
[18:44] <kenvandine> although i'd argue it should at least error if it can't
[18:44] <seb128> yeah
[18:44] <seb128> and wth, the phone doesn't have enough memory to load a 1Mb jpeg?
[18:44] <seb128> is that 1970?
[18:44] <kenvandine> haha
[18:45] <kenvandine> i'm sure it's more complicated than that :)
[18:45] <kenvandine> and likely something limiting it in the qpa
[18:45] <seb128> well, those phones should be able to open a 2048x image
[18:45] <kenvandine> i'd guess
[18:45] <seb128> right
[18:45] <seb128> which is what we should sort out and fix
[18:45] <seb128> if we swipe the dust under the carpet nobody is going to fix the issue and it's going to bite us again in other code
[18:46] <kenvandine> app developers should have a pretty good idea of when they are dealing with large images
[18:46] <kenvandine> and probably would want to set sourceSize anyway
[18:46] <kenvandine> if they aren't trying to display it at that size
[18:50] <seb128> kenvandine, hum, ok, it still feels like an easy trap to fall into but alright
[18:51] <kenvandine> seb128, agreed... and not obvious
[18:51] <kenvandine> since there is no error
[18:51] <seb128> right
[18:51] <seb128> having at least a warning would be nice
[19:04] <rickspencer3> cyphermox, if I am seeing a bug with SD cards, what project should I log it on?
[19:04] <cyphermox> rickspencer3: it depends what the problem is
[19:04] <rickspencer3> cyphermox, ok
[19:05] <cyphermox> rickspencer3: how are things broken?
[19:05] <rickspencer3> so, I put a video on the sd card
[19:05] <rickspencer3> 1. it doesn't show up in the scope (I assume this is media player)
[19:05] <cyphermox> ah
[19:05] <rickspencer3> 2. it doesn't play when I launch it from the file manager app
[19:05] <cyphermox> content-hub perhaps
[19:05] <cyphermox> jhodapp: do you know? ^
[19:06] <rickspencer3> 3. if I try to use the file manager app to copy and paste it to the device's Video folder, the UI says it is copying, but it doesn't actually appear there
[19:06] <jhodapp> rickspencer3, it's already a known bug that's filed
[19:06] <rickspencer3>  cyphermox so, I copied it over by putting the sd card into my laptop, then putting it into the phone
[19:07] <rickspencer3> jhodapp, is #3 known, that's the one I want to file
[19:07] <jhodapp> rickspencer3, that part I'm not sure about...so that's over MTP?
[19:07] <rickspencer3> jhodapp, no
[19:07] <rickspencer3> I ejected the SD card, put it into my SD card reader and plugged it into my laptop
[19:08] <rickspencer3> then ejected it from my laptop and put it into my krillin
[19:08] <jhodapp> rickspencer3, oh, you're copying from the SD Card to ~/Videos/
[19:08] <rickspencer3> jhodapp, yes, after I plug it into my phone, I try to copy it from the sd card to ~/Videos so that I can play it
[19:09] <rickspencer3> this worked for a different file a couple of weeks ago, but I used mpt to copy that file to the sd card
[19:09] <jhodapp> rickspencer3, what are the permissions of the file on the sdcard?
[19:10] <jhodapp> sergiusens, you should get in on this conversation ^
[19:10] <rickspencer3> jhodapp, it doesn't say in the properties dialog in the file manager
[19:10]  * rickspencer3 tries phablet shell
[19:11] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[19:11] <rickspencer3> I just realized that I don't have an mtp connection, but I can phablet shell
[19:11] <rickspencer3> :/
[19:11] <rickspencer3> jhodapp:
[19:11] <rickspencer3> -rw-r--r-- 1 phablet phablet 580362039 Sep 25 09:54 Rick and Morty S01E10 Close Rick-counters of the Rick Kind (1280x720) [Phr0stY].mkv
[19:12] <rickspencer3> total legit file I will point out
[19:12] <jhodapp> rickspencer3, looks ok to me, I'm not sure where to file this bug...hoping sergiusens can answer your question for this
[19:12] <rickspencer3> jhodapp, ok, I'm trying cp instead
[19:13] <jhodapp> rickspencer3, yeah that'd be interesting if any different
[19:14] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[19:14] <rickspencer3> jhodapp, so I see the file in the file manager, but ...
[19:14] <rickspencer3> cp: error reading ‘Rick and Morty S01E10 Close Rick-counters of the Rick Kind (1280x720) [Phr0stY].mkv’: Input/output error
[19:14] <rickspencer3> cp: failed to extend ‘/home/phablet/Videos/Rick and Morty S01E10 Close Rick-counters of the Rick Kind (1280x720) [Phr0stY].mkv’: Input/output error
[19:14] <rickspencer3> and it won't play
[19:14]  * rickspencer3 tries rebooting
[19:15] <jhodapp> rickspencer3, seems like it might haven't copied to the sd card properly
[19:15] <rickspencer3> yeah, let me see if it works after a reboot, I have had this happen before a few months ago (newly copied media wouldn't play until I rebooted)
[19:16] <jhodapp> rickspencer3, here's something to try...put the sdcard back into your computer, mount it, and cp it to your computer under a different filename...see if that works
[19:16] <rickspencer3> interesting
[19:16] <rickspencer3> jhodapp, you mean use adb pull?
[19:17] <jhodapp> rickspencer3, no, put it into the sdcard reader you have
[19:17] <rickspencer3> oh hassle
[19:17] <rickspencer3> :)
[19:17] <jhodapp> hehe
[19:17] <rickspencer3> jhodapp, fwiw, I used mtp to copy about 5,000 songs onto this sd card, and that works
[19:18] <jhodapp> rickspencer3, that's good!
[19:19] <rickspencer3> jhodapp, ah, so I can't play it from the sd card plugged into my laptop
[19:20] <rickspencer3> so, I guess something went wrong, but that would be nautilus on my desktop, I suppose
[19:20]  * rickspencer3 retries
[19:23] <jhodapp> rickspencer3, yes exactly what I suspected
[19:23] <jhodapp> rickspencer3, corrupted file
[19:23] <rickspencer3> jhodapp, well, something is crazy going on
[19:23] <rickspencer3> my laptop is now mounting the sd card as a read only file system
[19:26] <pressy4pie> is this where i should ask questions about porting ubuntu-touch?
[19:29] <lool> bdmurray: that's right (whoopsie in rtm)
[19:34] <pmcgowan> ogra_, which partitions do we want to look at to measure disk available and used, we are fixing the storage info in settings
[19:34] <pmcgowan> https://bugs.launchpad.net/barajas/+bug/1370525
[19:34] <pmcgowan> oops
[19:39] <seb128> pmcgowan, we don't want a device specific description if possible, currently we walk through available devices/partition and add the numbers
[19:41] <pmcgowan> seb128, are you thinking specific mount points?
[19:42] <pmcgowan> seb128, also not sure where to get the real available memory as reproted in dmesg which is for example 7.28GB
[19:42] <seb128> pmcgowan, well, what is wrong in the current report?
[19:45] <pmcgowan> seb128, the number is overstated, like on krillin it says 7.7GB and we dont actually have access to that
[19:45] <seb128> pmcgowan, how much do we have access to?
[19:46] <seb128> pmcgowan, /dev/mmcblk0p6 is 2.4G, 7 is 4.1G, msdc is 690M
[19:48] <pmcgowan> seb128, there's two interesting numbers, total availableon the SSD for system and user, which is 7.24, then user available which will be around 4.1GB
[19:48] <seb128> pmcgowan, how do you define "user available"?
[19:48] <pmcgowan> the SSD reserves 10% for wear leveling nad doesnt expose to us
[19:48] <pmcgowan> right thats the question, I think its that /home partition
[19:49] <pmcgowan> which also incldues some system logs and such
[19:49] <seb128> /dev/mmcblk0p7                               4.1G  217M  3.6G   6% /home
[19:50] <seb128> so it would be 3.6G in this casE?
[19:50] <seb128> pmcgowan, if we do that the number don't add as they should/the design is incoherent
[19:51] <seb128> pmcgowan, like "space_used + free_space != total_space"
[19:51] <seb128> because you are saying we shouldn't count the free space on /
[19:51] <seb128> which means we don't know how to draw the bars
[19:52] <pmcgowan> seb128, yes I think so 3.6 , we are changing the partition sizes a bit so it will end up as 4.1 our of 4.4 or like that
[19:52] <pmcgowan> seb128, if its not available to the user I wouldnt count it as free?
[19:52] <pmcgowan> hmm
[19:52] <seb128> pmcgowan, well, where would it count?
[19:52] <pmcgowan> it is available for updates, and if someone goes into developer more
[19:53] <seb128> pmcgowan, that's our design, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AboutThisDevice?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=phone-storage.png
[19:53] <pmcgowan> can we show system space used and free, user space used and free
[19:53] <pmcgowan> looking
[19:53] <seb128> pmcgowan, we don't have "free space for user" and "free space for system"
[19:53] <seb128> the design can change though
[19:53] <pmcgowan> seb128, thats what we have though, so maybe we should show it, what d you think
[19:54] <seb128> I've no strong opinion
[19:54] <pmcgowan> that would be myvote
[19:54] <pmcgowan> its how things lay out
[19:54] <seb128> we could do "user space available" which would be /home free space
[19:54] <pmcgowan> yep
[19:54] <seb128> and have a "others" category
[19:54]  * kenvandine would prefer that
[19:54] <seb128> to compensate the uncomputed space
[19:54] <kenvandine> the user space is what really matters
[19:54] <seb128> kenvandine, well then the bar doesn't make sense
[19:55] <seb128> kenvandine, the total of the category don't match the disk space
[19:55] <kenvandine> it does if the total is just total of user space
[19:55] <seb128> categories
[19:55] <pmcgowan> others or I think system is ok
[19:55] <seb128> kenvandine, so you don't want the "used by ubuntu"?
[19:55] <kenvandine> what good does it do me?
[19:55] <kenvandine> i can't use that space :)
[19:55] <seb128> you buy a 16G device in the store
[19:55] <seb128> unpack it
[19:55] <pmcgowan> develoeprs can but they can go command line
[19:55] <seb128> and settings show you device does 11G
[19:56] <seb128> and users go "WTH"
[19:56]  * kenvandine looks at android
[19:57] <kenvandine> looking at a 16G moto g
[19:57] <kenvandine> it says total space 12.92GB
[19:57] <pmcgowan> we also dont wnat them thinking we use a full 3.9GB when the SSD withholds 800MB from us
[19:57] <kenvandine> doesn't even try to tell me what the OS uses
[19:57] <seb128> kenvandine, I'm fine with that, it's just not our design
[19:58] <seb128> can we get the design updated?
[19:58] <kenvandine> then it breaks it down to Apps, Pictures/Videos, Audio, Downloads, Cached data, and Misc
[19:58] <pmcgowan> you are suggesting we say Total storage 4.1GB and thats it
[19:59] <kenvandine> pmcgowan, i'm saying that's what android does :)
[19:59] <seb128> win8 shows the system space
[19:59] <seb128> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vJe_ozXhXa0/UXcRTDYCVEI/AAAAAAAAAGY/ZDasItMrW28/s1600/storgae.png
[19:59] <popey> kenvandine: is it just me or is the battery icon in settings messed up? http://popey.mooo.com/screenshots/device-2014-09-25-205933.png
[19:59] <seb128> popey, ratio is not good
[20:01] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, would it be of interest to show System total 3.9, System free 500MB
[20:01] <kenvandine> pmcgowan, i'm fine with showing it, but what good does that info do for the user?
[20:01] <kenvandine> they can't free it or put anything there
[20:01] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, just devs can
[20:01]  * pmcgowan cannels ogra_
[20:01] <pmcgowan> channels
[20:02] <kenvandine> yes it helps with the total, so it matches what the specs of the devices says
[20:02] <kenvandine> :)
[20:02] <popey> seb128: need me to file a bug?
[20:02] <kenvandine> i'm just thinking users are used to seeing that number be less than the device total
[20:02] <seb128> popey, no
[20:02] <pmcgowan> we could go back to mpt
[20:02] <popey> ok ☻
[20:02] <seb128> popey, we have enough bugs
[20:02] <seb128> no mroe
[20:02] <popey> lolz
[20:02] <kenvandine> popey, there is already a related bug... but not the same
[20:03] <pmcgowan> popey, that icon probably being replaced anyway
[20:03] <seb128> we are also getting new icons
[20:03] <kenvandine> the icon will change
[20:03] <seb128> I was waiting for that before looking at it
[20:03] <pmcgowan> seb128, so fr now, why not stick tiwh the design and just get the right numbers
[20:03] <kenvandine> pmcgowan, i just think it would be much easier for us to get reliable information to display if we are just dealing with the user data
[20:04] <popey> super stuff
[20:04] <kenvandine> instead of trying to calculate systems tuff
[20:04] <pmcgowan> total 7.2, used by ubuntu 3.9, free 4.1, etc
[20:04] <seb128> pmcgowan, what would be the right number? if we limite "free space" to the /home then the number don't match and we need another category "lost space"
[20:04] <popey> rickspencer3: fwiw I just copied a load of videos to my sd card over mtp and they videos don't show up ☹
[20:04] <kenvandine> we could make it easy...
[20:04] <kenvandine> user data being /home and accurate
[20:04] <kenvandine> and the rest being used by ubuntu
[20:04] <pmcgowan> right
[20:04] <kenvandine> without figuring out it's usage
[20:05] <rickspencer3> popey, right, so videos from the sd card never worked for me
[20:05] <pmcgowan> as long as we get the right total available
[20:05] <seb128> so "used by ubuntu" would be like 5G
[20:05] <kenvandine> so total - userdata == ubuntu
[20:05] <rickspencer3> popey, so I used file manager to copy them to ~/Videos
[20:05] <seb128> I though pmcgowan didn't want to make we think we use more than we do?
[20:05] <pmcgowan> seb128, 7.2 - 4.1
[20:05] <kenvandine> but that makes us feel bloated
[20:05] <rickspencer3> popey, but now my sd card is acting squirly
[20:05] <popey> aah,
[20:05] <popey> i have a policy of not removing them
[20:05] <popey> saves sanity
[20:05] <seb128> pmcgowan, kenvandine; sorry, was making up the number, but yeah it makes look like we are using more than we do
[20:06] <pmcgowan> seb128, it will be 3.9 with final layout
[20:06] <seb128> well, anyway I'm fine doing that tweak
[20:06] <pmcgowan> ok
[20:06] <kenvandine> my vote would be to just ignore the used by ubuntu part and just make that total the total available to the user
[20:06] <pmcgowan> but we have the design, lets just make it correct
[20:06] <seb128> kenvandine, I'm fine doing that but I want the design updated
[20:06] <rickspencer3> popey, I logged a bug against the "videos don't work from sd cards issue"
[20:06] <kenvandine> seems users should be used to that from android and devices always have fine print saying the usable space is less
[20:07] <pmcgowan> yes we are actually doing better than android as far as i know
[20:07] <seb128> kenvandine, pmcgowan: I'm going to try to ping mpt tomorrow about that
[20:07] <kenvandine> pmcgowan, indeed... assuming we can reliably do that
[20:07] <kenvandine> if design is fine with changing it, we could make it much easier to ensure we're accurate
[20:08] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, seb128 ok but I was suggesting use the design we have with correct numbers
[20:08] <kenvandine> pmcgowan, also... the design doesn't take into account removable media at all
[20:08] <pmcgowan> thats another bug for another day
[20:08] <kenvandine> on android that is split out
[20:08] <kenvandine> for each device
[20:08] <mhall119> balloons: so I'm leaving on a week long trip tomorrow and I want to re-flash my phone before I leave, should I go with the RTM channel or utopic/devel channel for my Nexus 4?
[20:08] <kenvandine> which makes sense
[20:09] <seb128> pmcgowan, kenvandine: right, let's start by doing a small tweak to make the free space = user one and report the diff on the "used by ubuntu" category
[20:09] <seb128> then we can discuss a design update
[20:09] <pmcgowan> +1
[20:09] <seb128> and adapt to that later
[20:09] <kenvandine> seb128, fine with me :)
[20:09] <seb128> great
[20:09] <seb128> I'm going to do that tomorrow
[20:09] <kenvandine> great
[20:09] <kenvandine> hopefully that isn't too nasty :)
[20:10] <balloons> mhall119, mmm.. choices, choices.
[20:10] <pmcgowan> seb128, can we also show its 7.2 not .7.8?
[20:11] <balloons> mhall119, I suppose I would just avoid updating for the week and then flash whatever you wish :-) RTM has the focus atm
[20:11] <seb128> pmcgowan, I'm unsure where the difference come from but I'm going to look at it
[20:11] <seb128> pmcgowan, we basically iterate through available disks (listed by qtsystems) and add their size
[20:11] <balloons> since you'll be offgrid, it's no time to find new bugs
[20:11] <pmcgowan> seb128, ok, this bug is where I got that info https://bugs.launchpad.net/barajas/+bug/1363156
[20:11] <ogra_> kenvandine, all writavble system bits are in userdata
[20:12] <pmcgowan> seb128, must have double counted some virtual disk then
[20:12] <seb128> pmcgowan, it's possible yes
[20:12] <kenvandine> i'm having trouble seeing how it'll add up to 8G :)
[20:12] <pmcgowan> it does
[20:13] <kenvandine> just looking at the devices i see as mounted and checking their sizes
[20:13] <mhall119> balloons: I want to flash before I leave because I'm still having weird issues that nobody else is
[20:14] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, you will get more than 8Gb that way probably
[20:14] <seb128> kenvandine, we filter on
[20:14] <seb128>             if ((type [20:14] <seb128>                 type [20:14] <seb128>                 type [20:14] <kenvandine> there  are lots of dupes
[20:14] <seb128> and have an "uniq" to count disks only once
[20:14] <seb128> anyway that's just a bug, going to look at it tomorrow as well
[20:15] <Wellark> is there a bug filed already that the "lock security" screen in the welcoming wizard does not explain what "Swipe" means..
[20:15] <Wellark> why is it not called "None"
[20:15] <Wellark> no explanation needed
[20:16] <pmcgowan> thanks seb128 !
[20:19] <seb128> yw!
[20:21] <Wellark> pmcgowan: fyi!
[20:21] <Wellark> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity8/+bug/1361114
[20:22] <Wellark> pmcgowan: btw, do you have any info on that "Swipe" term I ranted about above?
[20:23] <pmcgowan> Wellark, where rant?
[20:23] <Wellark> just couple of lines up
[20:23] <Wellark> pmcgowan: "is there a bug.."
[20:24] <pmcgowan> Wellark, yu mean the pin code thing?
[20:24] <Wellark> pmcgowan: yep.
[20:24] <pmcgowan> I dont see any talk of swipe
[20:25] <Wellark> pmcgowan: to separate issues
[20:25] <pmcgowan> I think thats been reconrimed by design to be PIN Code
[20:25] <Wellark> so first I was asking about the swipe
[20:25] <seb128> kenvandine, pmcgowan: opened https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1374134 for design/mpt
[20:25] <Wellark> pmcgowan: and then I pointed out to you that the wizard still talks about pincode
[20:25] <Wellark> not related to each other
[20:25] <pmcgowan> Wellark, sorry I dont see the swipe reference
[20:26] <pmcgowan> oh looking back
[20:26] <Wellark> pmcgowan: for me, I would assiciate "Swipe" to those (patented?) android swipe codes, and not to "anyone can use your phone"
[20:27] <pmcgowan> Wellark, if the point is swipe != none, I get that
[20:27] <pmcgowan> yep
[20:27] <pmcgowan> I don thtinkt here is a bug on it
[20:27] <Wellark> pmcgowan: do you know if there is a bug for it?
[20:27] <ogra_> pmcgowan, seb128, do we have a bug open about the fact that none of the media on the SD card is counted as media ?
[20:27] <Wellark> pmcgowan: ok, I will file one
[20:27] <pmcgowan> ok
[20:27] <seb128> ogra_, I don't think so
[20:27] <pmcgowan> ogra_, ditto
[20:27] <ogra_> i.e. i have 34G of music on mine ...
[20:27] <seb128> ogra_, external storages are not in the design atm
[20:27] <ogra_> system-settings show me 4.1k Music
[20:27] <Wellark> pmcgowan: but please update the milestone on that bug I posted
[20:28] <seb128> ogra_, right, design doesn't include external storage
[20:28] <Wellark> as it was previously marked as Invalid for system-settings
[20:28] <Wellark> but nobody remembered the wizard :)
[20:28] <ogra_> (why does it show me these 4.1k ? it should only could actual media files)
[20:28] <seb128> ogra_, should we merge them? have another bar for the sdcard?
[20:28] <seb128> ogra_, because we do a "du" on ~/Music
[20:28] <mhall119> balloons: is the recent RTM promotion stable for mako?
[20:28] <seb128> ogra_, and linux fs do that
[20:29] <kenvandine> Wellark, mterry has a branch that changes the term used in the wizard, for pin code
[20:29] <pmcgowan> Wellark, sorry the Pin code bug? its just marked triage but seeminly will go wont fix
[20:29] <ogra_> heh, thats up to design ... but if we show music or videos separately listed and none of either is actually counted, thats weird
[20:29] <seb128> ogra_, the directory entry on the fs takes those 4k
[20:29] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, what does it do?
[20:29] <ogra_> seb128, right ... why do we could that
[20:29] <seb128> ogra_, they are counted for me
[20:29] <seb128> I copied music to ~/Music over mtp and it's counted
[20:29] <ogra_> but i dont have any music in the music dir
[20:30] <seb128> well, that's what we count atm
[20:30] <ogra_> all my music is on the SD
[20:30] <balloons> mhall119, I'm still on devel-proposed on mako
[20:30] <kenvandine> pmcgowan, Renames PIN code back to passcode
[20:30] <ogra_> which is counted as "space used by ubuntu"
[20:30] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, offs
[20:30] <seb128> ogra_, right, as said external storage is not part of our current design
[20:30] <mhall119> balloons: so is that a "no"?
[20:30] <balloons> mhall119, I will say devel gets less focus overall, but rtm isn't focused on mako
[20:30] <seb128> ogra_, that part is a bug
[20:30] <mhall119> balloons: yeah, that's why I'm not sure which to use
[20:30] <kenvandine> pmcgowan, they decided to change that back shortly after the rename landed :)
[20:31] <ogra_> seb128, probably just having the SD shown separate and only show the fill state would be good for now
[20:31] <balloons> mhall119, I think either is fine. So after you return, which do you want to track?
[20:31] <seb128> ogra_, sounds like a feature request, not up to me to accept new features
[20:31] <ogra_> that at least indicates that i dont need to look at music/videos etc
[20:31] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, is that stated n the bug report? I cant find it
[20:31] <Wellark> kenvandine, pmcgowan: the final resolution from design was to change "PIN code" to "Passcode"
[20:31] <pmcgowan> Wellark, congrats
[20:31] <ogra_> seb128, well, showing it as used by ubuntu isnt a bug ?
[20:32] <balloons> mhall119, I guess if I had to choose, I would go RTM
[20:32] <kenvandine> i18n.tr("Unlock by simply swiping to the left")
[20:32] <seb128> ogra_, that is a bug as I just said
[20:32] <kenvandine> Wellark, ^^
[20:32] <kenvandine> in his branch
[20:32] <ogra_> seb128, so how do you solve that ?
[20:32] <seb128> ogra_, but the fact that it's not including in ~/Music is not
[20:32] <kenvandine> so it looks like it explains more at least
[20:32] <ogra_> what category do you put the SD in ?
[20:32] <seb128> ogra_, by making it filter out external devices in our computation
[20:32] <seb128> none
[20:32] <Wellark> pmcgowan: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityAndPrivacySettings?action=diff&rev2=51&rev1=50
[20:32] <seb128> we act like if it didn't exist
[20:32] <mhall119> balloons: ok, if everything goes wrong I'll blame you
[20:32] <ogra_> you hide it completely ?
[20:32] <seb128> yes
[20:32] <ogra_> hmm
[20:32] <seb128> it's not a feature i the design
[20:32] <ogra_> SD card support is
[20:32] <seb128> it's not for rtm
[20:32] <balloons> mhall119, as I said, don't update after the initial flash :-)
[20:33] <Wellark> pmcgowan: so the wizard should be updated as well
[20:33] <seb128> ogra_, it's not in the current design we got handed over
[20:33] <ogra_> but yeah, perhaps not for RTM ...
[20:33] <kenvandine> pmcgowan,  bug 1348362
[20:33] <ogra_> seb128, most likely because nobody thought about it yet
[20:33] <mhall119> here goes everything
[20:33] <Wellark> pmcgowan: why wontfixed?
[20:33] <ogra_> :)
[20:33] <seb128> ogra_, I'm happy to work on it if it's decided to be rtm blocker, but not mine to decide
[20:33] <seb128> ogra_, there is a stack of missing features
[20:33] <ogra_> yep
[20:33] <seb128> including have a clalendar :p
[20:33] <seb128> calendar
[20:33] <ogra_> ++
[20:34] <mhall119> balloons: ubuntu-touch/ubuntu-rtm/14.09 correct?
[20:34] <ogra_> seb128, blame pmcgowan
[20:34] <ogra_> :)
[20:34] <seb128> I do
[20:34] <ogra_> its all his fault :)
[20:34] <seb128> I tried blaming rickspencer3 as well ;-)
[20:34] <ogra_> yeah
[20:34] <seb128> but he ignored me :p
[20:34] <ogra_> i'll happily join you
[20:34] <pmcgowan> Wellark, nm on that now I understand
[20:34] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, so https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity8/+bug/1361114 does not need uss fix correct?
[20:34] <ogra_> seb128, we can drown him ... at the sprint ... in beer perhaps
[20:34] <balloons> mhall119, looks correct
[20:34] <ogra_> the he will notice us ;)
[20:34] <seb128> hehe
[20:35] <kenvandine> pmcgowan, yes
[20:35] <pmcgowan> phew
[20:36]  * pmcgowan assigns calender app to seb128 and sync backend to ogra_
[20:36] <rickspencer3> ?
[20:36] <ogra_> lol
[20:36] <seb128> :-)
[20:36]  * ogra_ goes and reads up about eds
[20:36] <seb128> pmcgowan, I'm happy to work on fixing calendar issue if you tell me what they are
[20:37] <rickspencer3> I have a secret plan to get you a calendar with alerts
[20:37] <pmcgowan> seb128, on my list actually
[20:37] <ogra_> rickspencer3, before release ?
[20:37] <seb128> great
[20:37] <rickspencer3> ogra_, no
[20:37] <ogra_> :(((((
[20:37] <rickspencer3> ogra_, my secret plan is that if you use Google you can set the gcal to send you email alerts
[20:37] <ogra_> bah
[20:37] <rickspencer3> then we can tweak the poll daemon to detect those kinds of emails
[20:37] <ogra_> thats annoying
[20:37] <rickspencer3> and open the calendar for you instead of your email
[20:38] <seb128> rickspencer3, oh, so we get an email client? ;-)
[20:38] <ogra_> that means i recieve them in about 20 places where i use mail clients
[20:38] <rickspencer3> seb128, our email client is still gmail
[20:38] <rickspencer3> the web app, I mean
[20:38] <ogra_> we shouldl ship dekko by default
[20:38] <seb128> rickspencer3, hum, that wouldn't work for my canonical account
[20:38] <ogra_> right
[20:38] <seb128> rickspencer3, I didn't opt in for gmail, I'm using our imap server
[20:38] <Wellark> mterry: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1348362/comments/12
[20:38] <seb128> rickspencer3, but I need my work calendar
[20:38] <ogra_> wouldnt work for most enthusiasts ... but at least dekko is in the store
[20:38] <mhall119> seb128: use dekko
[20:39] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, actually, this totally black background is pretty cool lol
[20:39] <rickspencer3> we'll get there
[20:39] <rickspencer3> Rome wasn't built in a day
[20:39] <ogra_> rickspencer3, i just think (as everyone else here) that dropping calendar was wrong
[20:39]  * ybon trying to reinstall to stable channel :s
[20:39] <seb128> mhall119, that wouldn't make the magic rickspencer3 describe with the push server to work though?
[20:39] <Wellark> yes, but Rome was burned in a day. ;)
[20:39] <mhall119> seb128: not yet, no
[20:39] <seb128> mhall119, not a solution then
[20:39] <kenvandine> :)
[20:39] <seb128> yeah, calendar as well
[20:40] <kenvandine> pmcgowan, a feature :)
[20:40] <pmcgowan> indeed
[20:40] <pmcgowan> looks great with the orange infographic on it
[20:40] <mhall119> seb128: hack the poll-daemon to open it instead
[20:40] <pmcgowan> its like holloween
[20:40] <Wellark> oh, we have had a calendar?
[20:40] <Wellark> I want one too
[20:40] <rickspencer3> it is what it is
[20:40] <seb128> mhall119, open what? I don't even understand what you suggest
[20:40] <ogra_> Wellark, not anymore since the weekend
[20:40] <mhall119> seb128: or talk Google into making their push service available to 3rd party email apps
[20:40] <rickspencer3> we have a lot of work to do, and we can't do everything well
[20:40] <rickspencer3> we'll get there though
[20:40] <seb128> mhall119, how is dekko going to help me getting my calendar events updated in the indicator?
[20:41] <seb128> rickspencer3, we had a working calendar
[20:41] <mhall119> seb128: sorry, hack the poll-daemon to check your imap server instead of gmail, and then open it in dekko
[20:41] <ogra_> yeah
[20:41] <Wellark> how well does google html5 calendar work on touch?
[20:41] <seb128> rickspencer3, it's not work to do, we did work to drop it
[20:41] <rickspencer3> seb128, well if it works for you, then no problem, just install it
[20:41] <mhall119> seb128: you don't use google calendar either?
[20:41] <ogra_> a well working one that just got a lot of community attention recently
[20:41] <rickspencer3> seb128, no, a lot of people found it very problemetic
[20:41] <seb128> mhall119, I do, my issue is that I can't edit events synced from my google calendar
[20:41] <seb128> mhall119, I fail to see how an email client resolve that
[20:42] <mhall119> rickspencer3: it would help us if more of those people reported bugs about what exactly their problems were :(
[20:42] <rickspencer3> I don't understand the issue, can't it just be installed from teh store?
[20:42] <mhall119> seb128: I thought that's what you were asking about
[20:42] <ogra_> sure
[20:42] <seb128> rickspencer3, it can, but then we have a non working OS and ask users to go find 3rd party apps in the store to unscrew themself
[20:42] <seb128> which feels wrong
[20:42] <seb128> mhall119, no it's not
[20:42] <mhall119> seb128: the calendar core app lets you edit events from your google calendar
[20:42] <ogra_> rickspencer3, it is weird to ship a smartphone without the most essential ffunction and ask users to install third pppartxy stuff
[20:42] <Wellark> seb128: reminds me of Windows :)
[20:42] <seb128> mhall119, right, and we dropped that from our default image
[20:43] <mhall119> seb128: yes, I know :(
[20:43]  * mhall119 was -1 on that
[20:43] <mhall119> but nobody asked for my vote
[20:43] <seb128> mhall119, k, that's all I was saying
[20:43] <ogra_> rickspencer3, it was the only way to edit events, avoid them from ringing etc
[20:43] <seb128> not sure what you are trying to argue with me about
[20:43] <Wellark> so where are the open bugs for the calendar?
[20:43] <Wellark> is it totally unfixable?
[20:43] <mhall119> seb128: if this is all about why we should keep the calendar in the default image, then you have 110% of my support
[20:43] <ogra_> rickspencer3, for me thats the most essential fature of my phone ...
[20:43] <rickspencer3> well, it wasn't particularly my call either, but there was really no way to get the end to end experience up to snuff
[20:43]  * ogra_ doesnt get why
[20:43] <ogra_> it was ok to use
[20:43] <rickspencer3> *sigh*
[20:44] <ogra_> i managed all my events with it
[20:44] <seb128> rickspencer3, the most annoying thing to me there is that it was silently dropped without any discussion or email on our phone list, no mention on -changes or in daily summary email
[20:44] <rickspencer3> seb128, right
[20:44] <seb128> rickspencer3, no "fyi we ahve issues, we need to drop it"
[20:44] <ogra_> and it is definitely better than most stuff i can get from the android store on my android phone
[20:44] <seb128> rickspencer3, I had to get ogra telling me on IRC to understand it was a decision and not a bug
[20:44] <pmcgowan> we love the calendar, we are going to fix it, consider it a beta from the store
[20:44] <ogra_> rickspencer3, beyond that it was an awfule signal to the community
[20:44] <Wellark> ogra_, seb128: what is the LP project name?
[20:44] <Wellark> I want to look at the bugs
[20:45] <seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-calendar-app/
[20:45] <rickspencer3> I can't believe everyone has time to work on the calendar all of sudden
[20:45] <mhall119> ogra_: +1
[20:45] <pmcgowan> guys not everyone should spend any time on this
[20:45] <seb128> rickspencer3, I've been fixing some bugs on it in my spare time in the previous week
[20:45] <ogra_> rickspencer3, they werent even told about it in advance, people are actuvely spending their spare time on it and i ripped it out underneath them
[20:45] <seb128> rickspencer3, just as a btw
[20:45] <mhall119> rickspencer3: we have community people working on the calendar already
[20:45] <seb128> rickspencer3, I had no idea we were about to kick it out
[20:45] <rickspencer3> mhall119, right, so it's not the calendar, aiui
[20:45] <ogra_> (not knowing it wasnt communicated)
[20:46]  * rickspencer3 has no idea how he ended up getting blamed for all this
[20:46] <pmcgowan> communciation was bad, I can take blame for that
[20:46] <mhall119> rickspencer3: stink rolls uphill :)
[20:46] <seb128> rickspencer3, people gave your name as the one who said to drop it
[20:46] <rickspencer3> mhall119, I think we need people to fix bugs in eds, not in the calendar
[20:46] <rickspencer3> seb128, oh, nice
[20:46] <rickspencer3> lol
[20:46] <Wellark> rickspencer3: I see no blame here.
[20:46] <mhall119> rickspencer3: I agree, and syncevolution too
[20:46] <seb128> rickspencer3, feel free to point the finger or somebody else though ;-)
[20:47] <ogra_> :)
[20:47] <seb128> (as long as it's not me :p)
[20:47] <rickspencer3> mhall119, so, there is no conceivable way that those bugs are going to be fixed quickly
[20:47] <mhall119> rickspencer3: which bugs?
[20:47] <rickspencer3> and I can't see how moving it to the store instead of having it on the default image is that big of a deal
[20:47] <rickspencer3> mhall119, I dunno, all the bugs that drove people who synced it to the gcal crazy
[20:48] <mhall119> rickspencer3: part of the problem is that removing the calendar app doesn't remove the calendar sync or datetime-indicator showing events and triggering alarms for them
[20:48] <rickspencer3> I don't do much bug management for individual projects
[20:48] <Wellark> I only see 3 criticals
[20:48] <Wellark> and one of them is a autopilot bug
[20:48] <mhall119> rickspencer3: so we currently have a partial calendar support
[20:48] <rickspencer3> and I certainly don't pick and choose the individual packages that go into images
[20:48] <seb128> rickspencer3, "linux for human being", we try to do things that work out of the box for our users; .. ;-)
[20:48] <rickspencer3> *sigh*
[20:48] <ogra_> Wellark, there is an actively working calendar team ...
[20:48] <rickspencer3> if time were infinite, we'd be in a much better situation
[20:48] <ybon> re Nexus 4 unable to boot anymore since rtm, and even reinstalling devel/stable channel: what I notice is that the "install" part, i.e. when the ubuntu symbol rolls, is very very short
[20:48] <ogra_> they even just re-worked a lot of it
[20:48] <rickspencer3> but, sadly, it is finite and runs in one direction
[20:48] <ybon> Any idea how I try to get info from that?
[20:48] <pmcgowan> Wellark, its more about wanting to have an improved UI design, and there was not time to complete it
[20:49] <rickspencer3> I'm happy to see all the passion around the calendaring solution
[20:49] <ogra_> ybon, did you install with --bootstrap ?
[20:49] <Wellark> pmcgowan: so, because we don't have time to implement a new UI design we drop it from default image?
[20:49] <pmcgowan> Wellark, design didnt have time to propose one either, its in the plan
[20:50] <Wellark> because looking at the bug list I don't see any major technical blockers
[20:50] <seb128> well, as much as I would like a calendar my main issue is not that we dropped it
[20:50] <veebers> Wellark: Hi, what's the autopilot bug?
[20:50] <seb128> is that we sync events that generate reminders and don't provide a solution to opt out of those
[20:50] <rickspencer3> seb128, right, we get it
[20:50] <Wellark> veebers: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-calendar-app/?orderby=-importance&start=0
[20:50] <Wellark> first one
[20:50] <veebers> Wellark: thanks
[20:50] <ybon> ogra_: no
[20:51] <ybon> ogra_: if I do that, I lose everything, right?
[20:51] <Wellark> I'm not a dog fooder as my only device gets reflashed multiple times a day
[20:51] <ogra_> ybon, then you always have the old kernel in place ...
[20:51] <seb128> rickspencer3, sorry, I was trying to step back from the "can we get the calendar back" discussion to focus on the specific issue
[20:51] <Wellark> but when I finally get my self a ubuntu phone
[20:51] <ogra_> ybon, yeah, better back up your phablet home
[20:51] <Wellark> I would expect to have a calender
[20:51] <seb128> rickspencer3, since fixing the calendar and getting it back is probably not something we have resources for
[20:51] <ogra_> seb128, there is a big team ...
[20:51] <Wellark> if it's in the store, then fine
[20:52] <ogra_> well, bigger than for other apps
[20:52] <veebers> Wellark: ack, we are actively working on this bug. I was speaking to balloons about this yesterday too.
[20:52] <ybon> ogra_: "can't cd to /home/phablet" is there a way to access phablet home while not properly booted?
[20:52] <Wellark> but I can't imagine using a smart phone which does not have functional calendar as my daily driver
[20:52] <ogra_> ybon, from recovery it is in the /data partition somewhere
[20:53] <seb128> right
[20:53] <ogra_> yeah
[20:53] <ogra_> same here
[20:53] <seb128> well that discussion got out of hand, I'm stopping there
[20:53] <rickspencer3> Wellark, well, I have been using Ubuntu as my only phone since May of 2013
[20:53] <seb128> sorry if I added to the noise
[20:53] <rickspencer3> finding it works quite fine for me :)
[20:53] <ybon> ogra_: thanks :)
[20:53] <rickspencer3> seb128, I know, you were joking
[20:53] <rickspencer3> guess you "touched a nerve" :)
[20:53] <seb128> rickspencer3, well, I didn't want to start a big discussion about it
[20:53] <seb128> rickspencer3, so I'm a sorry it turned out this way
[20:54] <Wellark> rickspencer3: I meant for a phone I actually buy my self and run all my personal errands as well.
[20:54] <ogra_> rickspencer3, i do all my event mgmt with my phone ...
[20:54] <rickspencer3> here we go again
[20:54] <rickspencer3> lol
[20:54] <seb128> rickspencer3, I still wish we would find a way to edit event if we sync those, maybe we should simply don't sync events then (until we get a proper solution)
[20:54]  * ogra_ is just sad
[20:54] <rickspencer3> seb128, can you not simply install the calendar app
[20:54] <rickspencer3> ?
[20:54] <ogra_> being forced to still carry an android phone around until we have that feature back
[20:54] <mhall119> seb128: doesn't the calendar already sync edits?
[20:54] <rickspencer3> it's weird that you got blocked
[20:54] <pdxwebdev> Question, I issue the 'phablet-config welcome-wizard --enable' command and I get "already enabled". When I restart, it skips the welcome wizard. Any ideas?
[20:55] <seb128> rickspencer3, I could, but I can as well use the command line and do things for myself, it doesn't mean I consider that as a propoer solution for Ubuntu
[20:55] <rickspencer3> seb128, it's not in the store?
[20:55] <seb128> rickspencer3, some users don't want to use store or give their details online
[20:55] <seb128> rickspencer3, I'm just trying to make our OS work without having to go install 3rd party softwares
[20:55] <rickspencer3> seb128, don't worry, we will get there
[20:55] <ogra_> pdxwebdev, adb shell rm /home/phablet/.config/ubuntu-system-settings/wizard-has-run
[20:55] <ogra_> pdxwebdev, adb reboot
[20:56] <ogra_> pdxwebdev, thats what phablet-config does ...
[20:56] <pdxwebdev> fantastic, thank you so much
[20:56] <mhall119> seb128: I think for the use case of syncing with Google calendar, the user can be expected to install an app
[20:56] <ybon> humm, I don't find /data :s
[20:56] <seb128> mhall119, well, the base system does sync events
[20:56] <ogra_> ybon, try "mount /data"
[20:56] <seb128> mhall119, then you end up without a way to edit those/disable reminders, which can be confusing
[20:56] <Wellark> seb128 ogra_ rickspencer3: we should probably schedule a meeting for calendar and anything revolving around it for washington
[20:56] <ybon> ogra_: mount: can't read '/etc/fstab': No such file or directory
[20:57] <ogra_> bah
[20:57] <Wellark> our team needs to figure out the service apis for i-datetime as well
[20:57] <rickspencer3> Wellark, oth we know what needs to be done
[20:57] <Wellark> and they all kinda revolve around the same set of data
[20:57] <rickspencer3> if they don't then there are lots of places to plan it out, a sprint being one such place
[20:58] <ogra_> ybon, hmm, you said nexus4 ... ~ # ls /data/user-data/
[20:58] <ogra_> android_shell  phablet
[20:58] <ogra_> ybon, i have it here ... didnt even need to mount it
[20:58] <ybon> thanks, let me try
[20:58] <ogra_> (and i dont think recovery changed in quite some time)
[20:59] <ybon> I've run "adb shell", is that the wrong piece?
[20:59] <seb128> calling it a day, bye
[20:59] <ogra_> no, thats righ
[20:59] <ogra_> t
[20:59] <ybon> so I've not /data :s
[21:00] <ogra_> and thats an ubuntu recovery image ?
[21:00] <ybon> oh
[21:00] <ogra_> :)
[21:00] <ybon> I'm in the "Evilgle" screen, sorry, now I understand
[21:00] <ogra_> well, then your flashing cant work either :)
[21:01] <ybon> I'm in the recovery when I try to flash :)
[21:01] <ogra_> the logic for that lives partially inside recovery
[21:01] <ogra_> so you definitely need the ubuntu recovery image
[21:01] <ybon> what I do is:
[21:01] <ybon> 1. volume up/down + button pressed
[21:01] <ybon> 2. chose recovery in the menu
[21:02] <ybon> 3. run ubuntu-device-flash --channel devel
[21:02] <ybon> is that correct?
[21:02] <ogra_> well, that wont work if your recovery isnt an ubuntu recovery
[21:02] <ybon> oh (bis)
[21:02] <mhall119> balloons: so far so good!
[21:02] <ybon> I don't know what's an ubuntu recovey so :s
[21:02] <mhall119> balloons: all of my syncing is working fine too \o/
[21:02] <ybon> I see a dead android
[21:02] <ogra_> as i said, some of the flash logic (the main part actually) lives inside the recoovery
[21:03] <ogra_> ybon, if you select "recovery" where does that get you ?
[21:03] <ybon> how do I move to that recovery instead of my dead droid?
[21:03] <ogra_> do you get an ubuntu logo on the screen with a small menu ?
[21:03] <ybon> let me try again
[21:03] <balloons> mhall119, enjoy it.. and have fun on your trip! Has it been cooler for you the past few days? Should help prep you
[21:03] <ogra_> you press the button the big arrow points at :)
[21:04] <ybon> ogra_: yes, i've an Ubuntu logo
[21:04] <ogra_> (power i think)
[21:04] <ogra_> ok
[21:04] <mhall119> balloons: what what been cooler?
[21:04] <ogra_> and if you now use adb shell you dont see /data =
[21:04] <ogra_> ?
[21:04] <balloons> mhall119, the weather.. It's been lovely here all week. Basically no AC required
[21:04] <ybon> ogra_: it is! :)
[21:04] <ybon> thanks again :)
[21:04] <ogra_> :)
[21:04] <mhall119> balloons: nope, still hotter than hades down here
[21:05] <mhall119> it's funny how much a difference 100 miles can make
[21:05] <ybon> ogra_: so my best move is to scp is locally, and then reinstall with --boostrap, right?
[21:05] <balloons> it's huge in the winter
[21:05] <ybon> scp it*
[21:05] <ogra_> right
[21:05] <ybon> ok
[21:05] <ybon> let go
[21:05] <ogra_> well, scp might not be in the recovery
[21:05] <ybon> thanks :)
[21:05] <ybon> it's not :p
[21:05] <ogra_> you might need to tar it and adb pull or so
[21:05] <ybon> okay
[21:06] <ogra_> (busybox tar is in the recovery)
[21:06] <balloons> mhall119, yesterday's high was 76, low 66.. Similar today :-)
[21:06] <ybon> all /data or only user-data?
[21:06] <ybon>  /data/user-data I meant
[21:06] <ogra_> only phablet in there i guess
[21:06] <mhall119> balloons: now I'm jealous, but only for the next 24 hours
[21:06] <ybon> ok
[21:06] <ogra_>  /data/user-data tanslates to /home in a booted system
[21:07] <ybon> ok, makes sense thanks :)
[21:07] <mhall119> does the transfer indicator not do anything again?
[21:07] <ybon> do you know where I can check that my contacts are in there?
[21:12]  * ogra_ lols seeing mterry's last landing on utopic-changes
[21:12] <ogra_> the translated product name was funny :)
[21:24] <balloons> mhall119, transfers are still magical
[21:35] <popey> hmmm http://popey.mooo.com/screenshots/device-2014-09-25-223508.png
[21:36] <ybon> I had this message too from time to time
[21:39] <ogra_> popey, show sergiusens
[22:09] <wrongplace> hi
[22:24] <wrongplace> what hardware do I need for ubuntu-touch?


[00:37] <Mike_Feravolo> hey
[00:52] <desertc> Mike_Feravolo: what do you mean by 'get out there' - where is there?
[00:52] <desertc> in regards to your chamber of commerce comment
[00:54] <Mike_Feravolo> It means that you have to show up at events when  you join a chamber for it to help you
[00:55] <Mike_Feravolo> At least that how it works in Orlando, Florida USA
[00:56] <Mike_Feravolo> Bug Number 1 is big in Orlando Florida and a lot of people don't know that it can be fixed
[00:59] <desertc> It always feels like you live in a community where everyone uses microsoft until you start checking around with people.
[01:00] <desertc> I did not realize there was a group here who loads ubuntu on donated computers and gives them to poor people, for example, or that there is a college department that runs all kubuntu
[01:04] <Mike_Feravolo> That sounds like good news, at least the donated computers part I don't know about the KDE thing
[01:04] <Mike_Feravolo> :-)
[01:08] <desertc> did you go to the florida linux show earlier in the month?
[01:08] <Mike_Feravolo> the one in jacksonville ?
[01:08] <desertc> yes, that one
[01:09] <Mike_Feravolo> I didn't get a change it's about 4 hours + away this time of year
[01:09] <Mike_Feravolo> man my spelling is awful
[01:10] <desertc> but those are the types of things that show there is linux activity in your area
[01:13] <Mike_Feravolo> Okay
[01:14] <Mike_Feravolo> But, how does that "sell" ubuntu to people that never heard of Linux  ?
[01:15] <desertc> just opportunities to collaborate with other groups in your loco
[01:15] <desertc> 1+1=3
[01:16] <desertc> like - I am considering setting up a coffee shop that will educate people on ubuntu (and sell coffee and internet), but I would get the computers donated from this group that gives them away
[01:16] <Mike_Feravolo> Where ?
[01:16] <desertc> that way I can run an coffee place at a profit without buying and maintaining the computers, and I can focus on putting together classes and promoting the store
[01:17] <Mike_Feravolo> The internet Cafe thing is cool
[01:17] <Mike_Feravolo> or I should say Ubuntu Cafe ?
[01:17] <desertc> nice
[01:18] <Mike_Feravolo> I does sound cool, the question is can you use it ?
[01:20] <desertc> only thing holding me back is that I have no idea how to convert a cement-floored empty space into a up-to-code restaurant.  I suppose I could learn.  :)
[01:20] <desertc> ... that and I don't want to dump 30 grand on a lease that is going to end up being a money pit  ;)
[01:21] <Mike_Feravolo> Been there, Done that :-)
[01:21] <desertc> which part?  bringing a place to code or dumping a truck load of savings into a hole?
[01:21] <Mike_Feravolo> Which is why I am sticking to the Computer Trade
[01:22] <Mike_Feravolo> The flushing a ton of money into some elses building and lossing my . . . .
[01:22] <desertc> yes, for certain I can make more money doing the IT gig.  just got bored of it as of lately
[01:23] <Mike_Feravolo> How long have you been in the profession ?
[01:24] <Mike_Feravolo> I have been in the Computer Science trade since the Mini-Computer era
[01:25] <Mike_Feravolo> I even feel for the MCSE scam
[01:26] <Mike_Feravolo> But realized that is just another way to make you know who richer
[01:27] <Mike_Feravolo> So I burned my MCP card
[01:29] <Mike_Feravolo> Peace
[01:32] <desertc> oh, hi, back
[01:32] <desertc> yes, got the mcse back in NT 4.0 days and a cert list as long as my arm
[01:33] <desertc> I might consider getting the LCP if I started supporting linux systems.  I am someone who loves to learn!
[01:44] <Mike_Feravolo> Still here, more or less, What type of things are you interested in learning - I like programming and would like to learn Groovy
[01:45] <Mike_Feravolo> Groovy is the secound langauge to run under the java run time
[01:46] <Mike_Feravolo> I hate this comparision but it's like VB.net is to C##
[01:50] <desertc> I am not much of a programmer, even though I went to school for it.  I'm more about working with other people to do technical solutions.
[01:50] <desertc> That's the kind of stuff that gets me really excited: to see people getting together, working with computers to get them to do something important.
[01:51] <desertc> So, like, working with people to adopt a free software solution like ubuntu is a dream for me!  :)
[01:52] <Mike_Feravolo> I agree,  I don't do a lot of programming other then web based stuff these days
[01:56] <Mike_Feravolo> Working with people to adopt a free software solution, that sounds like a clear objective to me
[07:36] <DPic> Idea-- how about we create a guide for people to lobby their local govenments for free software and Ubuntu adoption? http://www.google.com/search?q=lobby+governmnet+%22how+to%22+OR+guide
[08:25] <juliux> morning
[20:00] <monkee> b00


[01:54] <NoirX> hi
[01:56] <NoirX> i installed ubuntu 12 through wubi, the system was very slow, now i removed ubuntu 12 and i am installing ubuntu 10 through wubi, i hope it works fast on my atom laptop
[02:19] <Patero-ng> hello I'm running ubuntu 12 off live cd and I installed the flash plugin on firefox but youtube isn't loading any videos I have a ati 9800xt using open drivers is the video card the issue?  I loaded ubuntu 12 live on another computer and flash plugin for firefox and it works what is the problem
[11:42] <antiphysicist> can getting grub irretrievably lock me out of a windows partition
[16:07] <pigna_colada> hello sorry to disturb
[16:08] <pigna_colada> who can help me a solitary second?
[16:08] <holstein> !ask | pigna_colada
[16:08] <ubot2`> pigna_colada: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
[16:09] <pigna_colada> hello! thanks for your answer!
[16:09] <pigna_colada> well the problem is ...simple! more or less. I just downloaded ubuntu cd (12.10) from the official site, and launched it on my laptop
[16:10] <pigna_colada> i chose the "try" selection, and it booted
[16:10] <pigna_colada> but now it asks me for a username and password
[16:10] <pigna_colada> what is it?
[16:10] <pigna_colada> i have tried "ubuntu" as username and nothing as password
[16:10] <pigna_colada> but it doesnt go on :(
[16:10] <holstein> pigna_colada: it shouldnt.. i would confirm the disk integrity
[16:11] <pigna_colada> I will try to boot again and lets see
[16:11] <pigna_colada> maybe this laptop is too old and doesnt like it
[16:11] <holstein> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCD
[16:11] <holstein> pigna_colada: if its too old, it wont boot.. it wont just ask for a password
[16:12] <pigna_colada> i rebooted again, lets see if it goes well this time
[16:12] <holstein> Sometimes a LiveCD might ask you for a user-name or password. Just leave these blank and press enter (or allow it to time-out).
[16:12] <holstein> ^^ thats from that link i gave
[16:12] <pigna_colada> oh...
[16:13] <pigna_colada> maybe its because the first time I have put "test" as username
[16:13] <pigna_colada> maybe i didn't have to put anything
[16:13] <pigna_colada> still booting anyway...
[16:13] <pigna_colada> lets see
[16:14] <pigna_colada> (still booting, *slow laptop*)
[16:14] <holstein> its not the speed.. its the driver support
[16:15] <pigna_colada> i am not even yet in the selection "try / install"
[16:15] <holstein> if you are trying to load the unity UI, it will (basiclly) require 3d
[16:15] <holstein> pigna_colada: i would confirm the integity of the install media.. you can do that from the menu after holding shift.. or
[16:15] <holstein> !md5 | pigna_colada
[16:15] <ubot2`> pigna_colada: To verify your Ubuntu ISO image (or other files for which an MD5 checksum is provided), see http://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM or http://www.linuxquestions.org/linux/answers/LQ_ISO/Checking_the_md5sum_in_Windows
[16:16] <holstein> then, i would try from that same alternate menu under F6 "nomodeset"
[16:16] <pigna_colada> holstein i burned it with nero and also checked the verify and there it said it was all ok...
[16:16] <pigna_colada> the only thing is that the image was 750 mb and i couldnt use a cd-r... so I had to burn the 750mb image in a dvd+r :(
[16:17] <holstein> then i would consider a distro that is arguably more appropriate for older hardare
[16:17] <holstein> pigna_colada: all offical ubuntu iso's should fit on cd
[16:17] <holstein> pigna_colada: what/where are you downloading
[16:17] <pigna_colada> but when I tried to burn it nero told me there was not enough space... and in fact over the cd its reported 700 mb
[16:18] <pigna_colada> while the image i downloaded is around 750
[16:18] <holstein> pigna_colada: i dont know about nero. im just saying.. the offical ubuntu isos fit on CD's
[16:18] <holstein> pigna_colada: if you have an image that doesnt fit.. i say its not ubuntu
[16:18] <holstein> ubuntustudio is too big for a cd
[16:18] <pigna_colada> oh! finally im in the screen -- try ubuntu --- install ubuntu
[16:19] <holstein> pigna_colada: sure, but thats not ubuntu.. unless you are trying the 13.04 beta
[16:19] <pigna_colada> i downloaded ubuntu-12.10-desktop-i386.iso
[16:19] <holstein> pigna_colada: i dont think so
[16:19] <holstein> pigna_colada: from where?
[16:20] <pigna_colada> from ubuntu.it first page
[16:20] <pigna_colada> its 753 MB (789.884.928 byte)
[16:20] <pigna_colada> the iso, i just checked from explorer.
[16:20] <pigna_colada> (still booting)
[16:21] <holstein> 753 is right
[16:21] <pigna_colada> see, then it doesnt fit my cd-r :( it says 700 mb on the surface
[16:21] <holstein> sure
[16:21] <holstein> pigna_colada: so whats the issue?
[16:21] <holstein> next is driver support
[16:22] <pigna_colada> wait, its finished booting, lets see if it asks again for username / pass
[16:22] <pigna_colada> *finishing
[16:22] <pigna_colada> it seems stuck now :( the hdd drive is always on and it doesnt do anything
[16:23] <pigna_colada> i mean the hdd led activity
[16:23] <holstein> pigna_colada: and how did "nomodeset" work?
[16:24] <holstein> pigna_colada: also, if this is older hardware, i would try soemthing appropriate for oder hardware
[16:24] <pigna_colada> unfortunately i'm ignorant :( its the 1st time i try ubuntu
[16:24] <holstein> lubuntu.. xubuntu
[16:24] <pigna_colada> its strange because before it booted, altought i had the username problem, now its stuck
[16:25] <pigna_colada> maybe you can be right that the dvd was not burned well
[16:25] <pigna_colada> what distro would be good on a pentium 4 laptop?
[16:25] <holstein> pigna_colada: anytime you say the work "maybe".. just go and rule that out.. test the iso.. test the image. then you'll know
[16:25] <holstein> pigna_colada: i suggested xubuntu or lubuntu
[16:26] <holstein> a desktop that doesnt require 3d would be a good start for an older box
[16:26] <pigna_colada> also marked as 12.10?
[16:27] <holstein> pigna_colada: i use 12.04.. the lts
[16:27] <holstein> pigna_colada: the are all ubuntu.. just with different setups.. different look and feel
[16:28] <pigna_colada> i just noticed that by pressing the on-off button of the laptop, a little windows showed up telling me that i am logged as live cd user etc.. and if i wanted to suspend, shutdown, and other things...
[16:28] <pigna_colada> then its loaded, but it just doesnt show up the desktop icons and menus :/
[16:29] <holstein> pigna_colada: i would use a desktop that doesnt require 3d.. LXDE or XFCE maybe
[16:29] <holstein> lubuntu is ubuntu with LXDE instead of unity
[16:29] <pigna_colada> oh, then I will download lxde
[16:29] <pigna_colada> but how come in the standard ubuntu there's this 3d thing on by default? :(
[16:30] <pigna_colada> nowadays only few people have 3d already!
[16:31] <holstein> pigna_colada: feel free to file a bug or a compliant to any of the employees or volunteers who develop ubuntu
[16:31] <pigna_colada> sorry, it was just a consideration...
[16:32] <holstein> nothing to be sorry about.. we dont make those decisions here
[16:32] <holstein> if you dont want 3d desktop, there are plenly to choose from
[16:32] <holstein> its not ubuntu's goal to support older hardware
[16:32] <pigna_colada> but is it possible to disable 3d desktop once its loaded?
[16:32] <holstein> it is lubuntu's goal to try
[16:32] <holstein> pigna_colada: its all open source.. *everything* is possible
[16:32] <pigna_colada> and in the normal ubuntu we cannot?
[16:33] <holstein> pigna_colada: there is no "cannot"
[16:33] <pigna_colada> i mean a normal user with a simple "turn off 3d desktop"
[16:33] <holstein> there is only the default setup which doesnt meet your needs
[16:33] <holstein> and unity which utilizes 3d
[16:33] <pigna_colada> i understand... so basically when u talk about "unity" you talk about ubuntu distro?
[16:33] <pigna_colada> the one i downloaded?
[16:34] <holstein> pigna_colada: unity is not the ubuntu distro.. its the desktop.. the UI
[16:34] <holstein> pigna_colada: correct.. the "one" you downloaded used unity
[16:34] <holstein> lubuntu uses LXDE.. xubuntu uses XFCE
[16:34] <holstein> unity, gnome and KDE are typically "heavier"
[16:34] <holstein> LXDE is light... there are plenty of other options though
[16:35] <pigna_colada> in the home page, for the download, i see only Desktop, Server and Cloud
[16:35] <holstein> pigna_colada: what do you want?
[16:35] <pigna_colada> i want one (but most recent) which can work in my laptop
[16:35] <holstein> lubuntu? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/GetLubuntu
[16:35] <pigna_colada> hah, thanks!
[16:35] <holstein> pigna_colada: i dont know your hardware... but i typically just try live CD's til something works best and tweak from there
[16:36] <pigna_colada> it still reports "desktop" in the filename though....
[16:36] <holstein> pigna_colada: ?
[16:36] <holstein> lubuntu-12.10-desktop?
[16:36] <pigna_colada> lubuntu-12.10-desktop-i386.iso
[16:36] <pigna_colada> yes
[16:36] <holstein> thats what you want... a desktop iso. not a server.. or alternate
[16:37] <pigna_colada> but before you said that a dekstop would bring that unity (3d)
[16:37] <pigna_colada> which is probably why my laptop cannot run the cd i made
[16:37] <pigna_colada> or "not properly" run
[16:37] <holstein> the unity desktop
[16:38] <holstein> LXDE is another desktop environment
[16:38] <pigna_colada> ah, ok.. lets call it Lunity desktop!
[16:38] <pigna_colada> so its a different one
[16:38] <holstein> pigna_colada: for me, linux and ubuntu are all about the community and the choice... there are lots of options
[16:38] <holstein> unity is a desktop.. unity is in ubuntu.. LXDE is a desktop.. LXDE is in lubuntu
[16:38] <holstein> there is no lunity
[16:39] <pigna_colada> unity dekstop and lxde desktop
[16:39] <pigna_colada> now that i will download lubuntu i will access to lxde one
[16:39] <holstein> pigna_colada: there are *plenty* of options.. and these are just the ones provided to you by default..
[16:39] <pigna_colada> ok, I will finish the download and i will burn another *dvd*
[16:40] <holstein> pigna_colada: my explanation above is a little over simplified and not totally correct.. but for now, yes, thats basically the deal
[16:40] <pigna_colada> well, for a noob like me it is okay for terms
[16:40] <pigna_colada> I will come back later if i have issues with lxde
[16:41] <pigna_colada> thanks for all suggestions
[16:41] <holstein> pigna_colada: cheers!
[16:41] <pigna_colada> pity that I did not use a dvd rewritable :(
[16:41] <pigna_colada> now I have to put this one in trash :((
[23:56] <duanedesign> o/