[16:01] <sil2100> o/
[16:01] <robru> o_
[16:02] <cyphermox> hullo
[16:02] <tdaitx> hmm, slangasek was out right?
[16:03] <sil2100> Yeah
[16:03] <caribou> 'joru
[16:03] <caribou> 'jour
[16:03] <barry> and no gaughen it looks like.  plus mumble is very lonely
[16:03] <cyphermox> yeah
[16:04] <barry> #endmeeting
[16:04] <sil2100> That was a very fruitful meeting!
[16:04] <barry> the most productive all year!
[16:04] <robru> Yay
[16:04] <sil2100> Yeah, so productive that I need to take a few days off now
[16:04] <sil2100> phew
[16:06] <xnox> please test 16.04.2
[16:10]  * barry -> reboots


[03:27] <jars_> hello all
[03:27] <jars_> i need some help with running a command in the terminal from a java app


[18:54] <teward> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1490824 is rearing its head in all ISOs, is this known?
[18:58] <flocculant> teward: where do you see something to make you say tgar?
[18:58] <flocculant> hah
[18:58] <flocculant> that :p
[18:58] <teward> flocculant: #ubuntu-bugs
[18:58] <teward> also, #lubuntu and #ubuntu
[18:59] <flocculant> oh - so not xenial?
[18:59] <teward> yes xenial
[18:59] <teward> this is a public channel - i'm curbing my 'cursing them out' side today
[18:59] <teward> they're not a QA / ISO tester it seems
[19:00] <teward> so, lack of knowing where to report things is implied
[19:00]  * teward is trying to get ASCII-less logs
[19:00] <teward> s/ASCII/odd-control-character/
[19:01] <flocculant> not had any reports of it
[19:01] <flocculant> s/had/had or seen
[19:02] <teward> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15409526/
[19:02] <teward> flocculant: want me to send them here so you can ask better questions?
[19:02]  * teward prefers triage and Server to ISO testing :P
[19:03] <flocculant> not really - not all that bothered about something like encryption - *we* don't test it - so any issues I'd push elsewhere - certainly not a *xubuntu* issue
[19:03] <teward> :P
[19:04] <flocculant> given final beta is next week - if it's as much as an issue as it is for apparently 3 people - it's going to show up then :)
[19:05] <flocculant> of course you can send them here - if anyone else is interested they can get involved :)
[19:05] <teward> :P
[19:06] <flocculant> not that I'm passing the buick in anyway ofc
[19:07] <flocculant> or the cadillac
[19:07] <teward> :P
[19:24] <Vlado2> hi
[19:24] <Vlado2> i'm trying lubuntu xenial daily build and i found a bug, ubiquity is broken when trying to create encrypted partitions
[19:24] <Vlado2> Bug #1490824


[19:40] <Duncan_> hey guys, is it possible to start upstart services as a non-privileged user *without* adding a line to sudoers/sudoers.d?


[00:20] <exlt> is the ubuntu installer synced from debian-installer regularly?  I'm just not clear about the dev path - if this was a bug introduced by d-i, or u-i, and where I might try to be most helpful
[00:22] <exlt> I don't need to pass any $LANG boot args to squeeze d-i, for instance
[00:23] <exlt> preseed works fine there
[00:44] <exlt> looking at the installer build version 20081029ubuntu80 - does this indicate a d-i fork from 10.29.2008?
[00:46]  * exlt is reading http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Installer/Development..
[01:05] <exlt> cjwatson: 20081029ubuntu79 does not show this particular behavior, if that helps at all
[01:10] <atrus> maybe the wrong place to ask, but I'm trying to follow https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick , but the freshly formatted drive always reports "not enough free space" when I try to write to the usb device. What can I do?
[01:12] <exlt> atrus: what size usb drive?
[01:12] <atrus> 4gig
[01:12] <exlt> hrm..
[01:13] <atrus> i format the thing in usb-creator-gtk, and it immediately says there's zero free space on the thing.
[01:14] <exlt> I don't know much about gui tools
[01:15] <atrus> is there a command-line way to get an ISO onto a usb drive? i know you can dd a .img file...
[01:15] <exlt> I would do it from cli, but don't know if that messes up the gui widget
[01:15] <atrus> i'd gladly do it all from the command line if i could figure out how.
[01:17] <atrus> exlt: how would *you* do it from the cli?
[01:18] <exlt> not sure what it's expecting to have as an end result, but I've done this with debian using syslinux and a netinst iso - looking for the docs foryou
[01:18] <atrus> i really just need a bootable usb rescue img.
[01:18] <atrus> grub's broken on my other machine, and i need a way to get in and fix it.
[01:20] <exlt> yeah, this looks about the same process - http://www.ubuntugeek.com/how-to-install-ubuntu-linux-from-usb-stick.html
[01:21] <exlt> hmm - he doesn't say anything about the syslinux config
[01:21] <exlt> lemme see if I have a usb drive with it on there and take a peek
[01:22] <exlt> oh, he's copying the isolinux dir from the iso image, so that should work
[01:24] <atrus> exlt: so follow that link? it didn't seem to say anything about how to format the usb drive's filesystem...
[01:24] <exlt> fdisk /dev/<wherever_your_usb_drive_is>
[01:25] <exlt> fdisk can be a bit daunting..
[01:25] <exlt> is it already formatted? or is that what was dorked with the gui thing?
[01:25] <atrus> it's been corrupted.
[01:26] <exlt> are there any partitions listed?
[01:26] <atrus> i think i can get through using fdisk though, i just need to know how to format it. vfat, fat32, ext2/3?
[01:26] <exlt> p - will print the partitions
[01:26] <exlt> ah, ok
[01:26] <atrus> yeah, no partitions, it recreated the partition table.
[01:27] <exlt> mkfs.msdos /dev/something1
[01:27] <exlt> uhh, maybe mkfs.vfat
[01:27] <exlt> yeah, that should probably be vfat
[01:28] <atrus> with you so far
[01:30] <atrus> copying everything from the mounted .iso into the usb...
[01:32] <exlt> cjwatson: yep - 20081029ubuntu79 works for me perfectly, however, the current build is kind of a showstopper for pxe booting - did you create a bug that I can follow, or which package would this be against and I can create one
[01:33] <exlt> atrus: not sure the steps said to copy the contents
[01:33] <atrus> er, okay, this is weird. they talk about copying over files in /install, and then running syslinux, and then copying over the iso's files again, overwriting them?
[01:34] <atrus> i'm pretty sure i'm misunderstanding step 1.
[01:34] <exlt> install dir with vmlinux and initrd.gz inside
[01:35] <exlt> there's a little image at the bottom of the entire contents of the root of the usb drive  :)
[01:35] <atrus> right, and then /install gets more stuff from the .iso image afterwards?
[01:36] <exlt> oh - did you follow the links to grab the hd-media kernel and initrd?
[01:36] <exlt> those links are *way* old
[01:36] <exlt> so will need to be adjusted for whatever version you want
[01:36] <exlt> what version are you wanting to install?
[01:37] <atrus> right, trying for karmic. i noticed the out-of-date link now :)
[01:37] <exlt> replace hardy with karmic and they should work a little better
[01:37] <atrus> i originally just assumed the /install directory from the cd would include the neccesary components.
[01:38] <exlt> nah, this is really a bootstrapping to load up the iso image from the usb drive
[01:40] <atrus> ahhh, ok ok.
[01:41] <atrus> i think that's the one piece of information i critically missed when reading this :)
[01:42] <exlt> yeah - it's a kernel and initrd with enough magic to go look for an iso file, mount it on loopback, and install from it like it's a normal CD
[01:43] <atrus> exlt: how does it know what .iso file to load?
[01:44] <atrus> ie, i'm plugging ubuntu-9.10-desktop-i386.iso in there, but it could be -server instead.
[01:45] <exlt> it will load just about any, but the kernel versions need to match, if I recall - I've done that at some point with a newer iso and it complained at me that it didn't match
[01:45] <atrus> yeah, it should match up there.
[01:47] <atrus> thanks a lot, whether this works or not when it's finished copying in. i've learned a bit more about this if nothing else.
[01:48] <exlt> that's half the fun  ;)
[01:48]  * exlt has been playing with linux since ~1997
[01:49] <atrus> ~98 for me. but syslinux and friends has always been something i've never had to dig too much into.
[01:50] <atrus> thankfully :)
[01:50] <exlt> I dropped in here with a frustrating problem that I could not figure out how to "configure" away, and it turns out we found a bug - so I help
[01:51] <exlt> never did find my usb installer - should probably make one..
[01:51] <exlt> real handy for rescues
[02:08] <exlt> cjwatson: as I thought might be the case, I don't need to pass locale or layoutcode as boot args when using auto and priority=critical - they are deferred and used from the preseed
[09:57] <CIA-41> ubiquity: evand * r3715 ubiquity/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
[09:57] <CIA-41> ubiquity: * Move oem-config runtime debconf questions into the oem-config
[09:57] <CIA-41> ubiquity:  package.
[09:57] <CIA-41> ubiquity: * Add oem-config/early_command (run a command just before oem-config
[09:57] <CIA-41> ubiquity:  starts).
[09:59] <ev> Is the lack of oem-config/id in any templates file an oversight?
[10:00] <cjwatson> it didn't need to be there as it was only preseeded and preseeding automatically registers missing templates if it needs to.  It wouldn't hurt to add it for documentation though
[10:12] <ev> ah, I figured as much; just wanted to be sure
[10:12] <cjwatson> ev: did you see my highlight last night about console-setup?
[10:12] <ev> cjwatson: no, I'm still getting the hang of ZNC, or rather trying to get it to actually replay everything.
[10:13]  * ev digs through irclogs.ubuntu.com
[10:13] <ev> ask_debconf> will do
[10:28] <superm1> ev, if you want to glance over https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~superm1/ubiquity/mythbuntu-plugin-enhance again, i've got it to the point now that mythbuntu_ui is now entirely dead.  i'm gonna do some more testing tomorrow to make sure I didn't break gtk_ui (w/o the myth plugins loaded)in the process
[10:28] <ev> superm1: cool, I'll endeavor to fit it in today
[10:29]  * ev continues to fight against the en_GB dictionary that got installed when he reformatted
[11:01] <ara> ev, I got an error with DHCP (OEM mode) while testing hardy point release
[11:01] <ara> ev, bug 512740
[11:11] <ev> ara: looking now
[11:12] <ara> ev, thanks :)
[12:11] <CIA-41> ubiquity: evand * r3716 ubiquity/ (3 files in 2 dirs):
[12:11] <CIA-41> ubiquity: Support installing additional packages at runtime in oem-config, as
[12:11] <CIA-41> ubiquity: specified by oem-config/extra_packages.
[13:18] <CIA-41> ubiquity: evand * r3717 ubiquity/scripts/install.py: Fix missing parameter.
[14:30] <dmarkey> might be the wrong place to ask, but why is openoffice on a server default install
[14:32] <soren> dmarkey: It's not?
[14:33] <dmarkey> it is for me, 9.10
[14:45] <exlt> dmarkey: I found the same thing and dug around the cdrom preseeds and found:
[14:45] <exlt> d-i pkgsel/install-language-support boolean false
[14:46] <soren> dmarkey: What exact packages are being installed that you were not expecting?
[14:46] <exlt> can't remember the exact package, but there was a circular dependency that pulled in a couple openoffice packages
[14:47] <soren> "a couple of openoffice packages" != "openoffice". :)
[14:47] <exlt> well, sure, but any openoffice packages on a server is kind of useless..
[14:55] <dmarkey> exlt: ok so that must cut out a few 100 megs?
[14:56] <dmarkey> soren: openoffice, and java.
[14:56] <soren> dmarkey: There's no package called "openoffice" nor "java".
[14:57] <soren> It's much easier to work out what went wrong if I can get exact data on what the specific problem is.
[14:57] <exlt> I think it was openoffice.org-thesaurus-en-au that you are seeing, and another - they get pulled in by language-support-en, language-support-writing-en.. - that d-i line above kept them from being installed
[14:58] <soren> exlt: /Kept/ them from being installed? I thought you guys were saying this stuff /did/ get installed?
[14:58] <exlt> soren: they did with a simple preseed of:
[14:58] <exlt> tasksel tasksel/first multiselect standard
[14:59] <exlt> (which does not *exclude* install-language-support specifically
[15:00] <exlt> the CD seed files specifically exclude installation of install-language-support
[15:01] <dmarkey> but not the net install?
[15:01] <exlt> correct
[15:02] <exlt> well, I could be wrong there, perhaps - as soon as one specifies a custom preseed, that overrides any default
[15:02] <exlt> so I found that line, added it to my preseed, and no more openoffice packages
[15:02] <cjwatson> this is a bug actually, as of 9.10 this is meant to be handled automatically
[15:03] <cjwatson> I think the bug is that language-selector-common needs to be added to the server-ship seed
[15:03] <cjwatson> without it, we're falling back to old behaviour which was too stupid to work this out for itself
[15:03] <exlt> not sure about 9.10 - I'm working on 10.4
[15:04] <cjwatson> no change in that regard yet
[15:04] <cjwatson> maybe I should just put language-selector-common in standard, since the effect now will be that it's installed for everything regardless
[15:04] <cjwatson> it's tiny
[15:05] <cjwatson> yeah, I'll do that
[15:07] <cjwatson> exlt: hopefully the next daily build of lucid won't require that preseed
[15:10] <dmarkey> cjwatson: thanks
[15:11] <dmarkey> cjwatson: how did your nfsv4 experement go?
[15:11] <cjwatson> partial, I got Kerberos working but haven't quite got NFSv4 up and running yet
[15:11] <dmarkey> for insecure use, nfsv4 doesnt require kerberos
[15:11] <cjwatson> that's nice ... :-)
[15:12] <cjwatson> I want to have the option of using it off my home network
[15:12] <cjwatson> and I'd been meaning to investigate Kerberos for years anyway
[15:19] <dmarkey> yea, and LDAP too?
[15:20] <cjwatson> I'm not that masochistic
[15:20] <ev> haha
[15:21] <dmarkey> oh right, they usually go hand in hand
[15:21] <dmarkey> kerberos/nfsv4/ldap that is
[18:07] <atrus> exlt: for what it's worth, that didn't work in the end. blinking cursor. (shrug) I ended up downloading a debian usb image, since they actually distribute the .imgs without forcing you to make your own out of an iso. (which wouldn't have been a problem if usb-creator worked)
[18:41] <exlt> atrus: I did the same last night on an old 256M stick ;) - zcat boot.img.gz > /dev/sdX


[18:58] <rbasak> o/
[18:59] <kanashiro> o/
[18:59] <seb128> hey
[19:02] <teward> *yawns* give me 1 minute to get more coffee
[19:02] <teward> #AllTheCaffeineRequired
[19:02] <teward> genii: where's my coffee :P   #RunningGag
[19:03] <bdmurray> o/
[19:05] <rbasak> Could someone volunteer to chair?
[19:05] <rbasak> I can do if nobody else is
[19:05] <rbasak> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board
[19:05] <meetingology> Meeting started at 19:05:41 UTC.  The chair is rbasak.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[19:05] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[19:05] <rbasak> #topic Review of previous action items
[19:05] <rbasak>     ddstreet request discussion/voting on ubuntu-support-uploaders continue on ML
[19:05] <genii> !coffee | teward
[19:06] <seb128> I don't feel like I've had enough meetings to do that yet, especially if we have an agenda and need to get going today but I will try to step up in one of the next meetings
[19:06]  * genii wanders back to work
[19:06] <rbasak> I posted on the list on this earlier. Any further discussion items people want to raise?
[19:06] <ddstreet> oh hi
[19:06] <ddstreet> i think i did raise it on the ml
[19:07] <rbasak> Has everyone managed to catch up on the ML?
[19:07] <seb128> I did
[19:07] <rbasak> If so I suppose we can just decide now. If not, then maybe we need to give people an opportunity to catch up first.
[19:08] <kanashiro> I do think we should write down some guidelines on creating packagesets, like have more than one applicant and more than one package for instance
[19:10] <rbasak> Since nobody else answered I assume they haven't had time to catch up?
[19:10] <rbasak> So let's move on?
[19:10] <seb128> teward, bdmurray ?
[19:11] <teward> *has caffeine*
[19:11] <teward> took a while to brew sorry
[19:11] <rbasak> #action continue discussion on ubuntu-support-uploaders packageset request on ML
[19:11] <meetingology> ACTION: continue discussion on ubuntu-support-uploaders packageset request on ML
[19:11] <rbasak> kanashiro: agreed! It's always good to document things we decide on
[19:11] <rbasak> And I also agree it's good to determine a policy on this so we don't have to decide every time individually
[19:11] <rbasak>     teward follow up to get all application process wiki/docs to explain the process to be able to edit wiki pages, for applicants who don't yet have wiki edit access (carried over)
[19:11] <teward> I think we need to review the ML items more in depth, I've been on the fence with regards to sosreport and such
[19:12] <teward> rbasak: carry over
[19:12] <rbasak> #action teward follow up to get all application process wiki/docs to explain the process to be able to edit wiki pages, for applicants who don't yet have wiki edit access (carried over)
[19:12] <meetingology> ACTION: teward follow up to get all application process wiki/docs to explain the process to be able to edit wiki pages, for applicants who don't yet have wiki edit access (carried over)
[19:12] <teward> and by 'review' i mean on our own not in the meeting necessarily
[19:12] <rbasak> sil2100 update application docs and possibly DMB checklist, to make sure candidates have signed CoC before applying and before DMB approves (carried over)
[19:12] <teward> *sips the coffee*
[19:12] <rbasak> He's not here I think?
[19:12] <rbasak> So I'll carry I guess
[19:12] <rbasak> #action sil2100 update application docs and possibly DMB checklist, to make sure candidates have signed CoC before applying and before DMB approves (carried over)
[19:12] <meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 update application docs and possibly DMB checklist, to make sure candidates have signed CoC before applying and before DMB approves (carried over)
[19:12] <rbasak> sil2100 start discussion on process/rules for when to create packageset vs PPU (carried over)
[19:13] <rbasak> I think that thread is effectively in progress. Let's decide it for the current sosreport question and a general policy at the same time.
[19:13] <rbasak> I don't see any applicatoins
[19:13] <rbasak> So
[19:13] <rbasak> #topic Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
[19:13] <rbasak> I don't see any unanswered requests.
[19:13] <rbasak> #info No unanswered requests.
[19:14] <rbasak> #topic Open TB bugs
[19:14] <rbasak> #info No Open TB bugs
[19:14] <rbasak> #topic AOB
[19:14] <rbasak> AOB?
[19:14] <rbasak> There are lots of ML threads in flight at the moment.
[19:14] <teward> yes there are, do any of them need to be discussed here or should they stay on the ML for now?
[19:15] <seb128> right, I would be in favor of using some of the time now to make progress on some discussions we can
[19:15] <rbasak> I suggest people carry on with those. Feel free to prompt for progress in the meetings and call for votes when the discussion is over.
[19:15] <rbasak> Sure
[19:15] <rbasak> Where to start?
[19:15] <seb128> do we have a preference to discuss on list rather than on IRC?
[19:15] <rbasak> I think IRC is useful to draw things to a conclusion.
[19:15] <teward> seb128: not really, there's some things that might be better on ML but the stuff that's in the air is more helpful here
[19:16] <rbasak> For discussion, I don't mind either way, but it's helpful to clear things up in realtime sometimes.
[19:16] <seb128> can we maybe get the private channel topic to a conclusion?
[19:16] <rbasak> Sure
[19:17] <seb128> just to pick one
[19:17] <rbasak> I wrote up a load of reasons why I think we should keep it.
[19:17] <rbasak> So obviously my preference is to keep it.
[19:17] <seb128> I meant to reply but I didn't have time yet
[19:17] <rbasak> I'd just ask that people read my opinion to see what they agree and don't agree with.
[19:17] <seb128> I'm fine keeping it but I would prefer to not have it used for anything important or that is of use to the group
[19:18] <seb128> reason is that I'm more often not on IRC than connected since I don't have a proxy and go to coworking at times
[19:18] <rbasak> Sure. I think the preference should to use public channels where possible.
[19:18] <seb128> and I feel like I'm not going to be able to pick up discussions without some sort of offline logging
[19:18] <sil2100> o/ Sorry for being late everyone
[19:18] <seb128> somewhat a fail due to the fact that ubuntu is stuck on IRC than more modern solution
[19:18] <sil2100> (although I am expired)
[19:18] <rbasak> Although I think it's fine for stuff like "sorry I'll be ten minutes left" where there's no harm in it being private, and just convenient to do.
[19:19] <rbasak> sil2100: you are reinstated!
[19:19] <kanashiro> I agree with what rbasak said in his email, it depends only on us whether we make a good use of the private channel. I am +1 to keep it, it might be useful in some cases
[19:19] <seb128> rbasak, you can also drop that not on #ubuntu-meeting ...
[19:19] <sil2100> Oh oh!
[19:19] <seb128> note
[19:19] <sil2100> \o/
[19:19] <rbasak> THere was a Telegram bridge at one point, for people without persistent IRC
[19:19] <seb128> but as said, I feel like I would miss out from a private channel just because I dont have a proxy and I'm not always online
[19:20] <seb128> so I would prefer for us to use a solution that doesn't exclude me (or others)
[19:20] <seb128> the mailing list is fine for me
[19:20] <rbasak> I don't remember it being used much outside the context and around the time of a specific IRC meeting.
[19:21] <seb128> I think it's fine having a place where we can join for a private discussion if needed
[19:21] <kanashiro> I have not seen any important information flying there
[19:21] <seb128> but I would really prefer for us to discourage people to use it for talking about topic that might be of use to everyone if some are not online at the time of the discussion
[19:22] <rbasak> seb128: would it be OK to flip that around and say that we discourage use of it except around the time of our public meetings?
[19:22] <seb128> I would be fine for that
[19:22] <seb128> around our meeting or in case of 'call for a discussion'
[19:22] <seb128> like you would create an hangout and ask people to join
[19:22] <seb128> but the text based equivalent
[19:22] <rbasak> Thanks. I think that fits our previous usage of it anyway, so there shouldn't be much impact in specifying that.
[19:23] <rbasak> Any other comments from anyone? Is that decided then?
[19:23] <kanashiro> sounds good
[19:23] <seb128> sil2100, bdmurray, teward, ddstreet ^
[19:23] <rbasak> Since it's IRC it might be worth putting that into the channel topic.
[19:24] <teward> we all know ddstreet's opinion - which is to get rid of it.
[19:24] <seb128> sil2100, bdmurray, teward,  ^ :p
[19:24] <teward> i'm on the fence there could be times where it's useful to have the private chat as long as we don't use it as a primary discussion vector
[19:24] <ddstreet> well teward you probably shouldn't speak for me :)
[19:24] <bdmurray> I can see how it would be convenient
[19:24] <sil2100> I don't have a strong opinion, so I would be +1 on that
[19:25] <rbasak> "We will keep the private channel but public discussion is preferred when possible. Use of the private channel is discouraged except around the time of our public meetings, or when a private chat is specifically arranged, to avoid DMB members not online from missing out."
[19:25] <seb128> +1 from me
[19:25] <rbasak> ^ is that agreed then? Anything I missed or should amend?
[19:25] <kanashiro> +1
[19:26] <teward> ddstreet: I don't have to speak for you - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2022-April/001936.html - your emails do that enough.
[19:26] <seb128> I'm going to not autojoin to avoid having people defaulting to the channel
[19:26] <teward> +1 as rbasak says
[19:26] <bdmurray> I don't even know / remember what the channel name is
[19:26] <rbasak> FWIW, I do autojoin, but honestly it doesn't get used much anyway. It's just that on the rare occasion it does get used, it's useful!
[19:26] <teward> bdmurray: #ubuntu-dmb
[19:26] <seb128> like I will join like I would join an hangout if someone pings me to discuss a topic
[19:27] <sil2100> +1
[19:27] <rbasak> It tends to happen in a middle of a meeting when an application interview isn't going well.
[19:27] <seb128> do we need a formal vote?
[19:27] <rbasak> At that time, it's really helpful for everyone to be there already rather than having to ping around first.
[19:27] <rbasak> But it's up to everyone individually what they want to do about that of course.
[19:27] <seb128> k, let's not discuss those details
[19:27] <rbasak> I see no need for a formal vote. There seems to be enough agreement.
[19:28] <seb128> k
[19:28] <rbasak> #agreed We will keep the private channel but public discussion is preferred when possible. Use of the private channel is discouraged except around the time of our public meetings, or when a private chat is specifically arranged, to avoid DMB members not online from missing out.
[19:28] <meetingology> AGREED: We will keep the private channel but public discussion is preferred when possible. Use of the private channel is discouraged except around the time of our public meetings, or when a private chat is specifically arranged, to avoid DMB members not online from missing out.
[19:28] <rbasak> We have time to discuss another topic if you'd like?
[19:28] <seb128> can we make also progress on the sosreport case?
[19:28] <rbasak> Sure!
[19:28] <kanashiro> rbasak, will you set the channel topic with the message you mentioned?
[19:28] <seb128> what you wrote is sort of what I was trying to get as an answer by my previous questions
[19:29] <teward> I have a question on this case
[19:29] <rbasak> Can I delegate the setting of the channel topic to teward please?
[19:29] <seb128> I think the '1 member = ppu, next request -> packageset' makes sense as a rule
[19:29] <teward> #chairs rbasak teward
[19:29] <teward> !chair rbasak teward
[19:29] <teward> ffs i hate the bot sometimes
[19:29] <teward> #chair rbasak teward
[19:29] <meetingology> Current chairs: rbasak, teward
[19:30] <rbasak> I think it's more than one member AND more than one package
[19:30] <teward> #topic sosreport delegated package set
[19:30] <teward> is the bot dead today?
[19:30] <rbasak> Many people individually having PPU to sosreport wouldn't necessitate it being a packageset.
[19:30] <teward> here's my question on sosreport
[19:30] <teward> how widely a group really needs upload privs on sosreport?
[19:31] <teward> additionall,y if this is a debugging/support group as Robie said it seems it'd encompass more packages than we'd want it to
[19:31] <ddstreet> are you asking me?
[19:31] <teward> it's a general question
[19:31] <teward> i'm asking 'nobody in particular'
[19:31] <teward> Currentlyl from what I can tell, from an ACL perspective, you ddstreet are the only person who would be in the group
[19:31] <rbasak> I think the way to answer the question is to see the actual applications. Whether a PPU or a packageset we'd need the applications anyway. Then we'd understand the situation better and be able to answer the question.
[19:32] <teward> but you're already coredev so it does nothing
[19:32] <teward> i think we need to see the applications *before* we can decide, or decide "not at this time" and handle it later at the first time someone applies.
[19:32] <teward> as well as the full scope of what packages would be in this
[19:32] <teward> (right now, I don't see enough criterion personally to support creating a delegated group for one package)
[19:32] <seb128> I asked that question in the previous meeting, my understand was that ddstreet expect his team members to join this group
[19:32] <seb128> understanding
[19:33] <ddstreet> yes that's right
[19:33] <ddstreet> i'm actually trying to offload this application to team-mate(s)
[19:33] <ddstreet> but it's been slow to find 'volunteers'
[19:33] <teward> define "team mates"
[19:33] <seb128> I think it would have helped to join a list of people who would be interested today to the request
[19:33] <seb128> make it more concrete
[19:33] <teward> even if they work at Canonical they need a greater understanding of the processes, etc. that ascribe to packages
[19:33] <ddstreet> teward i'm on the Canonical Sustaining Engineering team
[19:33] <teward> that's applicable to *everyone* at Canonical
[19:33] <teward> Canonical employment does not mean you get rights to upload
[19:34] <ddstreet> i don't recall saying it did?
[19:34] <seb128> teward, I don't think that was implied there
[19:34] <teward> seb128: it's a general observation that i'm stating that some people think it does
[19:34] <seb128> rather than his team has a bunch of members who do that on a daily basis
[19:34] <teward> i would rather see the extent of the team first
[19:34] <seb128> and probably have the skills to request to join
[19:34] <teward> ^^ correct
[19:35] <ddstreet> teward our LP team is actually private (it was before i joined, i don't know why) so i'm not sure if the team membership list is publicly viewable
[19:35] <ddstreet> but for sure not everyone on the team will apply
[19:35] <seb128> I'm +1 on that, having a list of 'those are the people who would apply today if the set was there" would be nice to decide
[19:35] <teward> ^^
[19:35] <teward> ddstreet: until i see the full extent of the people, -1 from me on the request.  Furhter, the scope needs better define
[19:35] <teward> to quote robie:
[19:35] <ddstreet> as i said, i'm trying to hand this off to people who *would* benefit from being on the team (or have PPU)
[19:36] <teward> > Separately, a description of "packages used for debugging and supporting Ubuntu" would seem to include gdb for example.
[19:36] <ddstreet> teward keep in mind that every person joining the team would need to apply
[19:36] <teward> the scope needs to be better defined because gdb and a ton of other packages would be in this set
[19:36] <teward> and i'd rather not have any non-coredevs mess with gdb because that can break other things.
[19:36] <teward> delegated set or not
[19:36] <ddstreet> to be clear, this isn't asking for anything besides sosreport right now
[19:36] <rbasak> For me, having a list of candidates isn't sufficient. I'd like to actually have a list of people the DMB have agreed _should_ be able to upload the package. IOW, I'd like to see those application succeed, and then we can decide if a packageset is appropriate, or if PPU will do.
[19:37] <teward> +1 for rbasak's statement
[19:37] <ddstreet> i'm happy to carry any response back to the team; as i said i'm handing this off to someone else asap
[19:37] <ddstreet> the result here really makes no difference to me :-)
[19:38] <bdmurray> which "this" is being handed off?
[19:38] <ddstreet> the team/packageset application we're discussing
[19:38] <rbasak> THe important thing is not to block people who are wanting to upload. But whichever way we need the actual applications to consider the actual mechanism to use.
[19:38] <ddstreet> or ppu
[19:38] <kanashiro> maybe we should step back and try to define the requirements to create a packageset as we were discussing, >= 2 people and >= 2 packages?
[19:38] <ddstreet> currently, i am the *only* person in my team who can upload sosreport to devel releases
[19:38] <teward> i'd say this should be PPU for now rather than a packageset
[19:38] <teward> if it's only one package, it doesn't warrant a packageset
[19:39] <ddstreet> so as long as i'm still on the team, there is no blockage
[19:39] <teward> regardless of number of individuals who need to upload for now, until the wider 'do we need other packages?" question is answered
[19:39] <ddstreet> kanashiro yeah as i said i really don't care what the outcome is here, if the >=2 rule already existed i wouldn't have bothered to apply
[19:40] <kanashiro> yes, that's the point, if the rules were defined we wouldn't be discussing that :)
[19:40] <ddstreet> this discussion might be overthinking things :)
[19:40] <ddstreet> indeed
[19:40] <rbasak> If you don't care about the outcome, why are we still discussing it? Can we just consider the request cancelled and move on?
[19:41] <ddstreet> sorry i mean, i don't care about the outcome as in, i'm fine with whatever decision is made
[19:41] <ddstreet> i don't mean that i don't care about it at all
[19:41] <bdmurray> I think there is an opportunity to define when package sets should be used.
[19:41] <ddstreet> if the decision is for individuals to reapply for PPU, that's fine
[19:41] <seb128> rbasak, I would like for us to define those rules if we can
[19:41] <ddstreet> if the decision is to create a pkgset/team, that's fine too
[19:42] <seb128> so we don't get the same unclear situation again next time
[19:42] <rbasak> OK. How about we just say that for a packageset we expect a minimum of two approved uploaders to a set of two related packages before we'll consider it?
[19:42] <rbasak> Exceptions can exist at any time of course.
[19:42] <teward> two or more related packages*
[19:42] <kanashiro> +1
[19:43] <kanashiro> we need a minimum to justify the admin work to create the packageset
[19:44] <seb128> +1
[19:44] <sil2100> +1
[19:44] <bdmurray> +1
[19:44] <sil2100> Sounds like a reasonable compromise
[19:44] <ddstreet> i'm not sure i should even be voting so i'll +0 if that helps :)
[19:45] <rbasak> #agreed We will generally only consider creating a packageset once we have two or more PPU uploaders to two or more related packages.
[19:45] <meetingology> AGREED: We will generally only consider creating a packageset once we have two or more PPU uploaders to two or more related packages.
[19:45] <rbasak> Does someone fancy taking the task to update the documentation on this please?
[19:45] <kanashiro> rbasak, I can do that
[19:45] <rbasak> I think this needs cleaning up between https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers/TeamDelegation and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/KnowledgeBase#Packagesets
[19:45] <rbasak> Thanks!
[19:46] <rbasak> #action kanashiro to update our wiki documentation with respect to our agreed packageset creation criteria
[19:46] <meetingology> ACTION: kanashiro to update our wiki documentation with respect to our agreed packageset creation criteria
[19:47] <rbasak> Any other discussion on this topic?
[19:47] <seb128> not from me
[19:47] <rbasak> Would anyone like to raise any other topics while we still have a few minutes left?
[19:47] <seb128> not me
[19:48] <sil2100> None from me
[19:48] <rbasak> Any other AOB?
[19:48] <bdmurray> What bout the election?
[19:48] <rbasak> I'll start arranging that tomorrow.
[19:48] <rbasak> But that does remind me (thanks)
[19:48] <rbasak> I did have one thing for the DMB in general.
[19:49] <rbasak> The documentation I wrote up when I first ran a DMB election is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/KnowledgeBase#Running_a_DMB_election
[19:49] <rbasak> The call for nominations has these two sentences:
[19:49] <rbasak> Candidates must expect to be able to attend the majority of DMB
[19:49] <rbasak> meetings. Currently these take place on IRC, are scheduled on alternate
[19:49] <rbasak> Mondays with each meeting alternating between 1500 UTC and 1900 UTC, and
[19:49] <rbasak> last around an hour.
[19:49] <rbasak> ddstreet sounded unhappy about the wording here.
[19:50] <ddstreet> i'd prefer the majority of the DMB business to happen on the ML, but that's just my opinion
[19:50] <rbasak> The reason for the wording, which I think dates from 2020 or so, is that we were having a big problem with attendence at IRC meetings
[19:50] <bdmurray> I seem to recall one candidate who wasn't going to run because those times weren't great for them.
[19:50] <ddstreet> i think the DMB relies too heavily on IRC meetings and lets ML threads die
[19:50] <rbasak> And the process had been (and still generally is) that if we're not quorate at an IRC meeting, we often don't consider an application, and so we don't make progress.
[19:51] <seb128> bdmurray, that was me :p
[19:51] <rbasak> If we want to switch to ML interview of applicants, then that's within the DMB's remit to change, but is a whole separate discussion.
[19:51] <seb128> I got convinced people rbasak said we would renegociate the times after election if needed
[19:51] <seb128> but I've a feeling that often people are missing on IRC or busy with other things and not responsive
[19:51] <rbasak> For now, I just want to know what to put in my call for nominations to run this immediate election
[19:51] <bdmurray> seb128: I knew that
[19:51] <rbasak> ...that everyone will be happy with.
[19:51] <seb128> so I do think using more the mailing list might be a positive thing
[19:52] <rbasak> IMHO, right now we still need good attendence at the IRC meetings, as we haven't agreed alternative arrangements.
[19:53] <seb128> rbasak, I'm fine with the wording if that's what is expected, I just fear that 'must expect to be able to attend the majority' is going to exclude people
[19:53] <rbasak> However, we can change the IRC meeting times. We've done that in the past. And my wording in the call for nominations reflects that still I think.
[19:53] <kanashiro> I agree with using more the mailing list but for applications review I'd still prefer the IRC meetings
[19:53] <bdmurray> I think you could be more explicit about the times being changeable.
[19:53] <seb128> rbasak, as a non native speaker it didn't reflect that to me
[19:54] <rbasak> Anyway, the point of me raising this here is to give the DMB the opportunity to amend my wording there, or change the sense of it entirely.
[19:54] <rbasak> Suggestions appreciated.
[19:54] <rbasak> But we need consensus for me to change the wording really. Otherwise I'll just be torn in different directions.
[19:55] <seb128> I would add a sentence that times are up to the board and can be regociated at any time if wanted by the members
[19:55] <seb128> just to clarify that it is an option
[19:55] <rbasak> Sure, I can do that.
[19:55] <ddstreet> i'd suggest that we should expect candidates (and members) to *either* attend the meetings *or* perform their duties on the ML; i'm not sure why the timing isn't up to the individual
[19:56] <rbasak> Right now, I don't think it'd be effective for a DMB member to participate only on the ML, since we hold application interview on IRC.
[19:56] <bdmurray> +1 for renegotiation.
[19:57] <ddstreet> personally i think each member should decide how they are best effective
[19:57] <rbasak> If everybody started to do that, then application interviews would stop taking place.
[19:57] <ddstreet> i don't see that as a problem
[19:57] <rbasak> Before we accept ML-only participation, I think we need to agree to change the application process.
[19:57] <ddstreet> but i also don't see continuing to hold irc interviews as a problem for members who prefer that
[19:58] <rbasak> (and FWIW I prefer realtime application interviews and I don't think we should change that)
[19:58] <ddstreet> you can have both, of course
[19:58] <kanashiro> +1 for real time interviews
[19:58] <rbasak> So I think for now, for my immediate question on what to put in the call for nominations, I should add a sentence as seb128 suggested.
[19:59] <rbasak> The discussion of if/how to permit ML-only applications in general is a separate one and if you want to drive that please go ahead, but it's a separate discussion.
[19:59] <rbasak> (I'd also ask that we not be trying to change too many things at once, since it's quite time consuming to deal with all the things)
[19:59] <rbasak> Also we're out of time now.
[19:59] <rbasak> Thank you for the discussion. I'll proceed as seb128 suggested then.
[19:59] <rbasak> Any other comments?
[20:00] <teward> -1 on ddstreet's opinion.  for an application we need to have more discussion with the person, and ml is not enough in my opinion.
[20:00] <seb128> not from me
[20:00] <teward> my own statement because there's more than just an 'email' lets you answer.
[20:00] <teward> nothing more from me.
[20:00] <kanashiro> no, thanks for driving the election rbasak
[20:00] <ddstreet> teward that isn't my opinion at all
[20:00] <teward> thanks rbasak for driving
[20:00] <rbasak> Thanks all!
[20:00] <rbasak> #endmeeting
[20:00] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 20:00:40 UTC.  Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2022/ubuntu-meeting.2022-05-16-19.05.moin.txt
[20:00] <teward> > i think the DMB relies too heavily on IRC meetings and lets ML threads die
[20:00] <teward> you weren't specific enoug then ddstreet :P
[20:01] <ddstreet> teward wow you have some serious animosity toward me dont you?
[20:01] <ddstreet> bye all o/
[20:01] <teward> no, i have animosity towards unclear definitions
[20:01] <teward> and unclear statements
[20:02]  * kanashiro waves
[20:05]  * teward also needs a nap, he's been up since 4AM
[20:06] <seb128> thanks!


[13:04] <PaulePanter> Hi. A user brought a Surface Pro 4, where WPA2 Enterprise stopped working after upgrading to Ubuntu 20.04.1 with Linux 5.4.x.
[13:04] <PaulePanter> Using Linux 4.15.x from the previous release, the WiFi works again.
[13:04] <PaulePanter> I tested the Linux PPA builds, and it does not work in 5.4.68, but works in 5.5-rc1 and further.
[13:05] <PaulePanter> We do not have the resources to bisect this even further, as the user needs the device back.
[13:05] <PaulePanter> What should I do? Run `ubuntu-bug` when running what Linux kernel?
[13:43] <PaulePanter> I submitted https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1897745


[09:50] <hanno> I have uploaded a source package and then found out that my key was missing. A day later, I have uploaded the key now.
[09:50] <hanno> On https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/UploadErrors it says there is a "PPA build status page" but I cannot find it for my ppa.
[09:50] <hanno> dput says the package is already there, but I don't know where to look for the build status.
[09:52] <hanno> Oh, never mind. I think I found the problem.
[11:46] <cjwatson> hanno: If LP rejected your upload due to a missing key, it won't automatically reprocess the upload once the key appears - you'll need to reupload for it.
[11:46] <hanno> Yes, thank you. I fixed it by now.
[11:46] <hanno> Now I'm with a different problem. Is it okay to ask packaging questions here or is there a better channel?
[11:47]  * hanno is fighting with .deb
[11:47] <cjwatson> hanno: I think there's #ubuntu-packaging or some such
[11:47] <cjwatson> It's not dreadful to ask here, but there may be better places.
[11:47] <hanno> ok, thx.
[13:50] <hanno> cjwatson: nobody in ubuntu-packaging. Dead channel?
[13:53] <cjwatson> hanno: I don't know, sorry
[13:53] <cjwatson> I did say "or some such", not remembering exactly
[13:55] <cjwatson> hanno: Feel free to ask, anyway, we can find somewhere to redirect you if it ends up being too much
[14:19] <hanno> What I'm looking for is a good tutorial on how to populate the debian/patches directory.
[14:19] <hanno> I can get a simple package ready by now, but don't know how to patch the original source tree.
[14:25] <cjwatson> hanno: perhaps https://wiki.debian.org/UsingQuilt will help
[14:27] <cjwatson> or https://raphaelhertzog.com/2012/08/08/how-to-use-quilt-to-manage-patches-in-debian-packages/
[14:28] <hanno> thx.
[16:46] <sergio-br2> "source has expired binaries"
[16:46] <sergio-br2> what's this?
[17:18] <cjwatson> sergio-br2: Context is a helpful thing
[17:19] <cjwatson> sergio-br2: But you're probably trying to copy a package that hasn't been published anywhere for a while and so has had its binaries garbage-collected.
[17:19] <sergio-br2> hey cjwatson
[17:20] <sergio-br2> yup, I was trying to copy
[17:20] <sergio-br2> from toolchain PPA
[17:20] <sergio-br2> gcc 4.9.3 from trusty
[17:24] <cjwatson> sergio-br2: I haven't managed to pick out the exact cause, but my bet is that, although most of it is still published, one of the gazillion binaries produced by gcc-4.9 has been superseded by one of the other gcc-* source packages in that same PPA
[17:24] <cjwatson> sergio-br2: and as a result LP no longer has all the binaries from that source and so can't do a copy-with-binaries
[17:24] <cjwatson> sergio-br2: if you need that specific version then the only thing you can do is to copy-without-binaries and rebuild it
[17:25] <sergio-br2> weird, I can see the binaries...
[17:25] <sergio-br2> there's gcc-4.9 and gcc 5.0
[17:25] <sergio-br2> different packages
[17:28] <cjwatson> Right, but one of the many individual binaries probably has the same name in a higher-versioned source package and thus was taken over by it
[17:56] <sergio-br2> ok, let's try to build then
[17:56] <sergio-br2> will take a day heh
[22:41] <sigmavirus24> I'm reading the documentation for https://help.launchpad.net/API/Webhooks and it looks like I cannot use webhooks unless I'm in a special group and the event is a VCS push? Is that still correct?
[22:58] <cjwatson> sigmavirus24: we just lifted the team restriction today - I've edited the docs to remove that bit
[22:58] <cjwatson> sigmavirus24: VCS push and merge proposal changes
[23:02] <sigmavirus24> cjwatson: okay, I was hoping for issue event changes on a project
[23:02] <sigmavirus24> Thanks for the info though cjwatson
[23:02] <cjwatson> sigmavirus24: please do file bugs for specific other use cases you have
[23:03] <cjwatson> sigmavirus24: it's not too difficult for us to extend webhooks to more objects now that we've done the hard work of building the infrastructure for it
[23:06] <sigmavirus24> cjwatson: bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad is the right place for that, correct? (My first time filing a bug against Launchpad)
[23:06] <cjwatson> sigmavirus24: yep
[23:07] <sigmavirus24> thanks cjwatson!


[09:27] <pavlushka> .tell inetpro hi
[09:27] <u-la-la> pavlushka: I'll pass that on when inetpro is around.
[09:29] <pavlushka> inetpro: my bot is working here but not in #ubuntu-bd!
[12:51] <inetpro[m]> \o/
[16:51] <inetpro> wb pavlushka
[17:22] <pavlushka> inetpro: thanks
[17:25] <pavlushka> inetpro:  my bot is working here but not in #ubuntu-bd!
[17:53] <inetpro> pavlushka: why?
[17:53] <inetpro> pavlushka: I think I know why
[17:53] <pavlushka> curious to know your thought
[17:55] <inetpro> pavlushka: your channel mode is probably set to +nrt
[17:55] <inetpro> execure /mode #ubuntu-bd
[17:55] <inetpro> execute as well
[17:56] <inetpro> the +r is necessary to avoid spam
[17:57]  * inetpro removed it here to test matrix integration, but I should set it back
[17:57] <pavlushka> inetpro: no and I haven't set that but it is set as +Cmnt
[17:58] <inetpro> aha
[17:58] <inetpro> I guess then you need to give your bot voice rights
[17:58] <pavlushka> I have set the channel mode with mlock and that is +nt-lk like in this channel
[17:59] <inetpro> let me just add the +r again just for interest sake and then you test again
[18:00] <inetpro> pavlushka: please try again
[18:01] <pavlushka> .tell inetpro hi
[18:01] <u-la-la> pavlushka: I'll pass that on when inetpro is around.
[18:01] <inetpro> u-la-la: hi
[18:01] <u-la-la> inetpro: 2021-05-30 - 09:27:32UTC <pavlushka> tell inetpro hi
[18:01] <u-la-la> inetpro: 2021-05-30 - 09:30:30UTC <pavlushka> tell inetpro hi
[18:01] <u-la-la> inetpro: 2021-05-30 - 09:30:59UTC <pavlushka> tell inetpro hi
[18:01] <u-la-la> inetpro: 2021-05-30 - 10:55:40UTC <pavlushka> tell inetpro hi
[18:01] <u-la-la> Further messages sent privately
[18:01] <inetpro> yikes! :-D
[18:01] <inetpro> hmm, so it's still working
[18:02] <pavlushka> inetpro: have to investigate the +Cm flags
[18:02] <inetpro> let me set those
[18:02] <pavlushka> inetpro: the C flag
[18:04] <inetpro> pavlushka: ok
[18:05] <pavlushka> .tell inetpro hi
[18:05] <u-la-la> pavlushka: I'll pass that on when inetpro is around.
[18:05] <inetpro> still working
[18:06] <inetpro> u-la-la: hi
[18:06] <inetpro> u-la-la: hi
[18:06] <inetpro> hmm...
[18:07] <inetpro> pavlushka: so it's the m flag, but how do we resolve it, that's the big question
[18:08] <inetpro> pavlushka: ^^
[18:10] <inetpro[m]> testing testing 123...
[18:10] <inetpro> inetpro[m]: it works
[18:14] <pavlushka> inetpro: ty, matter solved
[18:14] <inetpro> pavlushka: cool! What did you do?
[18:15] <pavlushka> inetpro: I removed the extra flags
[18:15] <inetpro> makes sense
[18:16] <inetpro> we can always introduce extra flags later as needed
[18:17] <pavlushka> inetpro: also r is a big flag for our channel, no one usually comes, even unregistered peeks are rare
[18:20] <inetpro> pavlushka: true, it used to stop a lot of trouble on Freenode back when we had so many netsplits
[18:23] <pavlushka> inetpro: plus sometimes I show my students a demo of irc and allowing unregistered nicks makes the world a little easy
[18:23] <pavlushka> *work
[18:26] <inetpro> pavlushka: nice to hear that some people still get IRC training
[18:27] <pavlushka> but failed to attract anyone so far but I didn't give up
[18:29] <pavlushka> Its just that I find it interesting where a typo is not editable
[18:30] <inetpro> something that I stuggle with as well
[18:30] <pavlushka> also the bots are very modular here
[19:20] <pavlushka> night night
[20:53] <GadgeteerZA> Something worth thinking about is embedding the channel in a website otherwise if you want it to have more visibility - something like this or similar - https://www.instructables.com/Add-an-IRC-Chat-room-to-your-website/


[07:22] <ventrical> Hi k_alam, 2:30 am here :)
[07:23] <ventrical> my clock 8 minutes fast
[14:39] <ventrical> test
[19:51] <ventrical> hi mark
[19:52] <mdeslaur> hi
[20:00] <mdeslaur> stgraber: meeting?
[20:00] <ventrical> just wondering the same
[20:00] <stgraber> mdeslaur: I'm around
[20:00] <stgraber> mdeslaur: Am I the chair? (kinda lost track)
[20:00] <mdeslaur> stgraber: congratulations :)
[20:01] <stgraber> yay
[20:01] <slangasek> hello
[20:01] <stgraber> oh, we actually have stuff on the agenda too, fun
[20:01]  * om26er will watch silently.
[20:01] <slangasek> yes, which is why I posted to the mailing list 5 minutes ago ;-)
[20:02] <stgraber> #startmeeting
[20:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Dec  5 20:02:40 2017 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[20:02] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[20:02] <stgraber> #topic Apologies
[20:03] <stgraber> none received that I can see but we're missing kees and infinity
[20:03] <stgraber> #topic Action review
[20:03] <mdeslaur> slackers
[20:03] <stgraber> ACTION: slangasek to investigate getting tagged ubuntu-community bugs automatically forwarded to technical-board, and if not feasible, fall back to DMB sending signed emails to list for ACL requests
[20:03] <stgraber> (skipping the two assigned to infinity since he's not around)
[20:03] <slangasek> carry-over
[20:03] <stgraber> alright
[20:04] <slangasek> (I continue to do penance by jumping on rbasak's requests when they come in)
[20:04] <stgraber> #topic Ubuntu Unity
[20:04] <stgraber> Ubuntu Unity dale-f-beaudoin, khurshid-alam of unity7 maintainers team requesting ubuntu-unity (unity7) to have official flavor status.
[20:04] <slangasek> ventrical: hello
[20:04] <ventrical> yes .. i am here
[20:04] <k_alam> I am here
[20:05] <stgraber> reading slangasek's e-mail now
[20:05] <ventrical> I sort of got a late list of questions  in e-mail
[20:05] <ventrical> sabdfl was invited but can't make meeting .. he hopes it runs "smoothly"
[20:06] <slangasek> these always run smoothly
[20:06] <slangasek> downhill, as gravity demands
[20:06] <ventrical> :)
[20:07] <slangasek> ventrical, k_alam: have you seen my reply email just now? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2017-December/002333.html
[20:07] <ventrical> yes...  I just got them now ..
[20:07] <ventrical> can I have a min to review?
[20:07] <slangasek> in essence, the main concern (which was shared by infinity and myself during the last TB meeting) is that we don't want to bless a flavor when it's unknown whether there is actually functional upstream maintenance
[20:08] <slangasek> certainly
[20:08] <stgraber> I don't have a problem with any of this in principle but echo slangasek's comment about getting a list of source packages (and any related packages that'd need to carry patches for this), it'd then make sense to reach out to the DMB to get a package set created for the unity7 desktop, get uploaders added there and get things in a good state in the archive.
[20:08] <stgraber> Once the archive is in good shape with the packages you need, we can start building images from those packages
[20:08] <cyphermox> from the DMB here o/
[20:09] <slangasek> what I specifically don't want is to sign off on a flavor on the basis that the software has not /yet/ bitrotted, only to find that there is no one on the team with time+skill to keep the packages up to date when maintenance is needed in a few months
[20:09] <mdeslaur> I share the same concern. I would love to see a unity flavour, but need to know someone is going to take over upstream maintenance.
[20:09] <k_alam> I haven't read the mail....reading it now
[20:10] <tsimonq2> I would just like to note that I have volunteered to sponsor any necessary packages until someone with more knowledge of the codebase gets PPU or similar.
[20:11] <ventrical> I would have to stand by the names , on persons who have joined the unity7maitainers team
[20:11] <ventrical> omar akram is also willing to help in this matter.
[20:11] <om26er> that is me ^
[20:12] <tsimonq2> I was linked to a PPA earlier with the source packages they wanted reviewed, and if the Board finds it relevant, ppa:unity7maintainers/unity7-desktop
[20:12] <tsimonq2> Note that I have not gotten to reviewing but on a preliminary look, things seem correct.
[20:12] <slangasek> tsimonq2: thanks; sponsorship is very useful here to make sure we don't founder on process
[20:13] <tsimonq2> slangasek: Agreed.
[20:13] <cyphermox> ventrical: k_alam: I echo tsimonq2's offer, feel free to ask for sponsoring.
[20:13] <ventrical> I am curren team leader of Ubuntu Development Version
[20:14] <slangasek> ventrical: right, so as I said in the email, I don't think we can assume that someone having their name in a team of 40+ people means they are, individually, making any certain level of time committment to the maintenance
[20:14] <ventrical> yes .. we have asked .. jbicha and several have been guiding  me on several things..
[20:15] <slangasek> ventrical: perhaps a good next step would be for the team leads to circle around with the members of the team who do have experience with the code base, and poll them regarding their level of committment?
[20:15] <ventrical> Well I am certainly commited and muy track record at ubuntu Forums proves it.
[20:15] <jbicha> I think my guidance has been mostly pointing out some bugs and helping with uploading fixes to those bugs, I'm not really involved in maintaining Unity myself
[20:15] <slangasek> ventrical: do you write C++ code?
[20:15] <k_alam> Alright, I will subscribe ubuntu-sponsors on the bug report.
[20:16] <tsimonq2> I have also seen progress from k_alam on working with upstream bugs, specifically the non-defaults wiki page, but my personal stance is that while I totally believe this can happen and support it, I echo the comments made about it maybe being a bit early to apply for flavor status. (Just my 2¢ as an outsider here)
[20:16] <ventrical> yes .. I used to .. turing on unix .. but I admit I need brush ups. I am a good trouble shooter and tester..
[20:17] <stgraber> my understanding is that to maintain unity7 going forward, you're going to need someone with a good understanding of compiz, gtk, nux and all the other random bits that made the unity desktop. Some of those technologies are now deprecated or may soon be, so you're going to need to rewrite/port part of the code to newer technologies as the older dependencies slowly get removed from the archive.
[20:17] <ventrical> khurshid?
[20:17] <slangasek> ventrical: OK.  again, it's a question of time+skill.  I don't know most of the people on that team (yourself included) and don't know their skillset - so it's hard to gauge how effective this team is going to be before we've seen some work
[20:18] <slangasek> OTOH you do have that Hannibal Lecter guy on your team, and his skills are reknowned
[20:18] <stgraber> I'm much less concerned about the packaging and iso building aspect of this than I am about the massive amount of technical debt that comes with the unity codebase itself. We don't want to have to keep outdated libraries in the archive indefinitely to allow running unity7, so unity7 itself needs to be actively developed and updated to keep up.
[20:18] <ventrical> My time is there as well as my skill as a tester
[20:18] <slangasek> right - testing alone does not make for a healthy upstream
[20:19] <k_alam> I can handle integration with the gnome side, gtk, indicators, zeitgeist......For unity and libunity I need some help...I only have studied the code recently....
[20:19] <om26er> I committed myself to bug management of unity and related packages and if need be, will be able to fix build failures. I write Java and Python on my full-time job. Though my c++ skills are limited for now.
[20:19] <ventrical> well the conventional wisdom is that i fwe get offical staus that it will bring in a lot of commitment.. it is not like I was not commited to testing unity-session during 17.10
[20:19] <slangasek> ventrical, k_alam: do you feel like you have a handle on what the TB is asking from you here, and would the next steps be clear?
[20:20] <ventrical> yes I do.. I have the time .. I can commit a 4 hour spread  5 days a week.
[20:20] <slangasek> ventrical: I don't think the TB recognizes that as conventional wisdom :)  Official status might generate enthusiasm, but it's no guarantee that the enthusiasm is paired with the necessary coding skills
[20:21] <mdeslaur> I would like to see someone start making commits to the unity codebase
[20:21] <stgraber> yeah, my experience of running an official flavor is quite the opposite as what you'd expect
[20:21] <stgraber> official status means you'll get a lot more interested users and a lot more bug reports and support questions
[20:21] <stgraber> but not new contributors or developers
[20:22] <stgraber> (this is what ultimately killed Edubuntu as an official flavor and in our case we didn't also have to be the upstream for a full desktop environment)
[20:22] <ventrical> we are a feldgling group with a lot of pratical talent and good will.. it would behoove ubuntu to grant unity offical status..
[20:23] <ventrical> I recall Edubuntu . I tested it vigorously .
[20:23] <slangasek> ventrical: sorry, I'm not looking for an answer from you here and now regarding committment.  I am looking for you as leads to be able to demonstrate that you have a team that is a credible upstream for these packages and committed to their maintenance.  I have patched the unity7 codebase myself; it is not something that I think anyone on your team should be making a committment around before
[20:23] <slangasek> they've worked on the code
[20:23] <ventrical> I do appreaciate your commentary on that
[20:24] <slangasek> kees: do you have any additional comments on this subject?
[20:26] <slangasek> (guess not)
[20:27] <ventrical> I ask that the  before the board make a decison to look at my record and commitment as a tester at www.ubuntuforums.org . A distribution is only as good as the people who are testing it, and I do not think it unreasonable to have some faith that we can pull this together .
[20:27] <stgraber> ok, so I feel it's best for us to continue this discussion on the mailing-list. Personally I'd like to see a list of all source packages that the unity flavor would be responsible for as well as a description of what they are and their current state in the archive.
[20:28] <stgraber> that would be a good first step to see the scope of the project and then identify who on the unity flavor team has the knowledge to act as upstream for those various pieces
[20:28] <slangasek> ventrical, k_alam: so from the members of the TB that have spoken, there is unanimity that we would like to see more here.  You do have folks on that team who have development experience with unity7; if as you say it's obvious that being an official flavor will bring in the volunteers, it should be straightforward for you to talk to them and get them to agree to be responsible for the upstream
[20:29] <slangasek> maintenance in the interim until the team grows
[20:29] <slangasek> stgraber: agreed
[20:29] <cyphermox> stgraber: I agree, a package list makes it easy afterwards to take further steps
[20:30] <slangasek> ventrical: will you gather the answers to those questions on the mailing list, and we can revisit by email once we have more information?
[20:31] <k_alam> We are talking about maintaining Unity, I believe we don't need full scale development right away.....We will keep it compilable, make things work as it used to...then we can think of porting it to modern components.....Unity is all xorg atm....Also note same components are being shared among other projects...Mate uses unity-gtk-module, indicators etc...that makes things easier for us.
[20:31] <ventrical> so you are not validating our request for offical falvor?
[20:31] <ventrical> yes I will
[20:31] <slangasek> ventrical: thank you
[20:31] <slangasek> stgraber: (want to AGREE that for the minutes?)
[20:31] <ventrical> can I make a personal comment?
[20:32] <slangasek> certainly
[20:32] <jbicha> k_alam: MATE doesn't use unity-gtk-modules and indicators quite yet (I understand it's being worked on this cycle though)
[20:33] <ventrical> I feel , that since the question came  so quick , just aqs the meeting was starting , that somehow the goalpost were moved. is this the experience the rest of the teams have to go through?
[20:34] <stgraber> #agreed unity flavor team to send a list of source packages related to the unity flavor and gather agreement from team members to be responsible for maintaining those codebase upstream and in Ubuntu
[20:35] <mdeslaur> The situation with the unity flavour is a bit different, as unity currently has no active upstream developers.
[20:35] <slangasek> ventrical: it's often the case that volunteer boards are unable to deliver a frustration-free experience, and regrettably we're no exception.  If you came in with the assumption that this would be a rubber stamp approval, however, I'm sorry to say that was never likely to be the case
[20:35] <jbicha> k_alam: never mind, I guess Ubuntu MATE does, but it's important to explain in your proposal which source packages are co-maintained
[20:36] <tsimonq2> mdeslaur: For the sake of clarity, the developers doing bugfix work for 16.04 aren't from upstream but rather downstream patches?
[20:36] <fossfreedom> ventrical, I'm the project lead of Ubuntu Budgie - happy to chat with you to help you and your team through the process.  I've been through this before and am happy to help with what we have learned along the way.
[20:36] <stgraber> ventrical: getting a new flavor in Ubuntu is a process which usually takes months/years, there will be quite a few discussions both on IRC and e-mail about it. Since you were around it felt appropriate to keep this on the agenda rather than postpone it to another meeting so we could get some of that discussion done now.
[20:37] <ventrical> very well .. much appreciated.. we did out best but must do better:)
[20:38] <ventrical> no .. never expected rubber stamp...
[20:38] <ventrical> :)
[20:38] <mdeslaur> tsimonq2: yes, there are a few bugfixes being made for 16.04, but that doesn't mean it's being actively developed.
[20:38] <k_alam> slangasek: Yes atm, we are little short on manpower...some people who had experience with unity joined late in the team....Honestly I was expecting few more here :)
[20:39] <slangasek> ventrical: if there was any failure here, it was certainly on our side for not formulating those questions sooner - questions which those of us on the TB knew needed to be asked
[20:39] <tsimonq2> mdeslaur: Right, ok. Fair.
[20:39] <k_alam> jbicha: How can we do that? Announce on the mailing list?
[20:39] <mdeslaur> tsimonq2: if any of those developers step up and commit to maintaining unity, it would certainly help the cause
[20:40] <tsimonq2> k_alam: I'd chat with flexiondotorg (hi) and see where you guys can share work if you guys are sharing packages.
[20:40] <ventrical> well .there are no sour grapes here. You have all done a fine job.. obviously I came ill prepared, got blindsided so to speak :)
[20:40] <stgraber> moving on to our next topic so we keep this meeting within the one hour slot
[20:40] <jbicha> k_alam: I'm guessing you'd want to come up with a wiki page or other web page (since I expect it to be a big list) and mention that in your email follow up to the TB
[20:41] <tsimonq2> mdeslaur: Right, and it would be a great boon to the project if th
[20:41] <stgraber> #topic Ubuntu Budgie LTS status for 18.04
[20:41] <stgraber> bashfulrobot: around?
[20:41] <ventrical> there are a lot of devs with privilidges who are working behind the scenes.. a lot of no shows also..
[20:41] <tsimonq2> s/th/those individuals did so/
[20:41] <ventrical> fossfreedom.. thanks
[20:41] <k_alam> Jbicha: Alright.
[20:42] <bashfulrobot> I am here stgraber
[20:42] <bashfulrobot> Thank you for the time
[20:42] <stgraber> bashfulrobot: hi, is there some kind of e-mail about that request which I missed? :)
[20:43] <bashfulrobot> I had posted in the community hub to getting more information
[20:43] <jbicha> (I'm not on the TB, just interested in today's discussion)
[20:43] <bashfulrobot> It was suggested that I put myself on the agenda to discuss here.
[20:43] <stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecognizedFlavors is the documented process
[20:43] <ventrical> slangasek jbicah had a list he sent us  about a week ago. We were preapred for that
[20:43] <stgraber> specifically the last part of the page which lists TB requirements for LTS status of flavors
[20:43] <bashfulrobot> Ok, that is exactly what I was looking for.
[20:43] <ventrical> but you cuaght us right off guard.. maybe a good thing after all..
[20:44] <bashfulrobot> My real question was now along the lines of "where is the doc".
[20:44] <jbicha> stgraber: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2017-November/004243.html
[20:44] <bashfulrobot> Stgraber - that actually answers exactly what we needed.
[20:44] <stgraber> jbicha: thanks
[20:45] <bashfulrobot> I'll read that over and get the process into motion
[20:46] <bashfulrobot> Thank you stgraber
[20:46] <bashfulrobot> Fossfreedom we can discuss offline
[20:47] <stgraber> bashfulrobot: since it's your first LTS, I'd recommend going with 3 years, so we'll mostly want a list of the packages that you'll have to maintain for those 3 years, ideally a blurb on the upstream support for older releases and who on your side will have the time to do the SRU work and testing of stable images when we do point releases
[20:47] <bashfulrobot> Stgraber yes we agree. Our team had agreed on the three-year term as well.
[20:48] <stgraber> bashfulrobot: send that to the TB mailing-list and assuming everything looks good, we'll do a quick check for disk space with IS (not that it should matter that much as flavors are on cdimage.u.c, not releases.u.c so no mirror involved)
[20:48] <bashfulrobot> Stgraber sounds good
[20:48] <stgraber> #topic Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed (standing item)
[20:49] <stgraber> nothing that wasn't brought up here already or handled by a TB member already (thanks mdeslaur for flatpak)
[20:49] <stgraber> #topic Check up on community bugs (standing item)
[20:49] <stgraber> looks like slangasek took care of those :)
[20:50] <stgraber> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting (next from https://launchpad.net/~techboard/+members)
[20:50] <stgraber> infinity, backup kees
[20:50] <stgraber> #topic AOB
[20:50] <stgraber> anything?
[20:50] <slangasek> nothing here
[20:50] <mdeslaur> nothing from me
[20:50] <stgraber> kees?
[20:51] <tsimonq2> Mind if I jump in real quick with a quick question? :)
[20:51] <stgraber> tsimonq2: go ahead
[20:52] <tsimonq2> If Lubuntu wanted to release Lubuntu Next as a separate image alongside 18.04 but as a non-LTS, is that 1) Something the TB will let us do? 2) Something the TB needs approval for?
[20:52] <tsimonq2> (Probably better as 1 question but you get it.)
[20:52] <ventrical> I will inform Will Cooke of this as it was his original suggestion that we request official satus and that , pending , we need more information. Thanks and regards..
[20:52] <tsimonq2> s/TB needs approval/we need approval from the TB/
[20:52] <stgraber> I think it's fine, you're just going to have to be careful with your release announcement not to confuse people :)
[20:53] <tsimonq2> stgraber: Sure, alright, just covering my bases here. :)
[20:53] <tsimonq2> Thanks all!
[20:53] <stgraber> it's a product we've released in the past (17.10) so by default we'd release it again for 18.04 and unless LTS status was requested (which you haven't), it'd default to the usual 9 months
[20:53] <stgraber> so no action needed ;)
[20:54] <tsimonq2> stgraber: We didn't "release" it for 17.10 but in a previous TB meeting when I asked about something similar I think it was generally approved
[20:55] <stgraber> oh, oops, I saw a directory on cdimage but didn't check the content :)
[20:55] <stgraber> you do have a releases/17.10 but nothing in there :)
[20:55] <tsimonq2> Right :)
[20:55] <stgraber> right, so technically new released product but still should be fine and not need anything from the TB
[20:55] <tsimonq2> Alright excellent
[20:56] <tsimonq2> Thanks again everyone :)
[20:56] <stgraber> reminds me (but more of a release-team thing) that we need to poke all the flavors and ask about LTS plans for 18.04
[20:57] <stgraber> anyway, that's it for today, see you in two weeks
[20:57] <stgraber> #endmeeting
[20:57] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Dec  5 20:57:11 2017 UTC.
[20:57] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting-2/2017/ubuntu-meeting-2.2017-12-05-20.02.moin.txt
[20:57] <mdeslaur> thanks everyone
[20:57] <slangasek> thanks!
[20:58] <slangasek> and thanks to all our attendees for a rarely contentful meeting ;)
[21:00] <bashfulrobot> Thjanks all!


 Hello. I installed Lubuntu 18.10 on a laptop with UEFI. After the installation, should I leave it alone in UEFI mode or should I also enable Legacy mode?
[04:24] <wxl> @JyotiGomes UEFI
 @wxl [<wxl> @JyotiGomes UEFI], just UEFI without enabling legacy?
[04:50] <wxl> yep
 @wxl [<wxl> yep], And after I already installed Lubuntu 18.10 should I re-enable "secure boot" in BIOS or leave it disabled?
[04:52] <wxl> i'd try it enabled first, but not sure
 @wxl [<wxl> i'd try it enabled first, but not sure], Ok. Thanks for your help and patience :-)
[07:22] <Mead> I've got a lubuntu install that freezes up occationally while running Kodi, how can I diagnose the problem?
[07:23] <hateball> Mead: check the usual log-files, ~/.xsession-errors, /var/log/Xorg.log, /var/log/messages and so on
[07:24] <Mead> right, I'm gonna need a little more hand holding than that...  what do I use to check those logs?
[07:24] <hateball> Mead: oh :)
[07:25] <hateball> Mead: Any text editor of choice is fine
[07:25] <hateball> or just "cat ~/.xsession-errors" in a terminal for instance
[07:25] <hateball> I don't know if KODI itself logs anywhere as well
[07:27] <Mead> alright as soon as this update does it's thing I'll start checking the logs, I swear I see more updates pushed to this lubuntu system than my win10 systems
[07:30] <hateball> Would you rather things not be fixed? :)
[07:31] <Mead> I'm fully aware that updates are better than no updates, but not needing updates or not needing as many updates is even better
[07:31] <hateball> Yes, sadly no software is perfect
[07:32] <Mead> not anymore, back when I first started using computers prior to the internet, some software seemed to just work because it was much simpler
[07:39] <Mead> hateball: what are those regular logs I should look at again?
[07:40] <hateball> Mead: /var/log/messages
[07:41] <hateball> sorry I am stuck in the past
[07:41] <hateball> you can look at /var/log/dmesg
[07:42] <hateball> you can also run "journalctl -x" and look for errors
[07:42] <hateball> Mead: as well as ~/.xsession-errors
[07:42] <Mead> I got that one to work
[07:42] <Mead> nothing about the output grabs my eye saying crash
[07:43] <hateball> Mead: seems KODI logs to ~/.kodi/temp/kodi.log by default
[07:43] <hateball> so maybe check that too
[07:43] <hateball> Mead: see https://kodi.wiki/view/Log_file/Advanced#Location
[07:46] <Mead> ok I found that and got a bunch of out put in my terminal,  got a clue what to look for now?
[07:47] <hateball> not really, I havent had the need to troubleshoot KODI myself. Any lines looking like errors I guess :p
[07:47] <hateball> Mead: also, is it just KODI freezing, or is it the entire desktop?
[07:47] <Mead> entire system,  caps lock/scroll lock no longer turning on and off
[07:48] <Mead> no imput from KB or mouse can recover it, fan runs 100%, and requires a hard reboot with the power button
[07:48] <Mead> err input
[07:55] <hateball> hmmm
[07:57] <hateball> might be hard to troubleshoot that, perhaps nothing will even be logged as the system freezes
[07:57] <Mead> exactly
[08:05] <Mead> what are those log files in lubuntu log files I could look at?
 Hi! Is it a good idea tho have TLP installed in Lubuntu 18.10?
 I ask thath because... After installing the Lubuntu 18.10, the battery life has decreased dramatically. Is it normal to happen?
[14:02] <mariojug> Hello
[14:03] <mariojug> can anyone help me out with  wake on lan with lubuntu?
[14:07] <hateball> !details | mariojug
[14:13] <mariojug> Can I have an example of the format you wamt me to display  my issue
[14:13] <mariojug> ?
[14:14] <hateball> mariojug: I mean, what are you trying to do, and what is not working for you?
[14:17] <mariojug> I am trying to  enable  wake on lan for my lubuntu machine   Every guide I use tend to be for normal ubuntu  and  it doesn't work when I implement it.
[14:22] <hateball> mariojug: there's not much to enable, typically it "just works". What output do you get from "sudo ethtool eth0|grep Wake" ? where eth0 is your NIC
[14:25] <mariojug> It's enp2s3 for me
[14:25] <hateball> if it says Wake-on: g, then it should be enabled
[14:27] <mariojug> It says "wake on  d" it can be turned on  but it doesn't persist.
[14:42] <hateball> mariojug: then you need to make it permanent in your network configuration
[14:45] <hateball> mariojug: and this depends a bit on how you configure your interfaces, if it is  with network-manager or netplan etc
[14:45] <hateball> but you want to have the g option set on ifup
[14:53] <mariojug> the file?
[15:18] <mariojug> Also it's  netplan
[15:23] <mariojug> https://pastebin.com/B6x8GZ9x
[15:23] <mariojug> This is the status it game me
 Hi! is it a good idea tho have TLP installed in Lubuntu 18.10? I installed Lubuntu 18.10 and TLP and the battery dies very fast...
[16:03] <mariojug> brb
[16:17] <mariojug> Back
[18:01] <jius> knock knock
[18:03] <apt-ghetto> on heaven's door?
[18:04] <jius> yeah :)
[18:05] <jius> has anyone switched from <18.04 to 18.10 and managed to get the winKey + Arrows to move and resize windows like you could easily do in LXDE?
[18:07] <wxl> disable the super key to open the menu in lxqt-globalkeys
[18:08] <wxl> more on the subject and what direction we're taking for the ultimate fix: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T154
[18:10] <jius> I'll have a read through that url. thing I loved about non-qt release was that I could have two windows in 1/2 screen split  either side in two key comb clicks
[18:11] <wxl> you should use a tiling window manager instead
[18:11] <wxl> it's way more flexible and doesn't require "maintenence" to keep it arranged the way you want while you add/move things around
[18:11] <wxl> that said, we'll probably not get rid of them, but they'll likely be mapped to different characters
[18:17] <jius> It was mainly a basic re-size two windows for side-by-side I used. So firefox was winkey+ arrow right and I was all set. So didn't use much tiling. As "built-in" to basic build it required no further tools
[18:47] <lynorian> wxl the built in fake tiling works well enough if you want to say document lxqt
 Hi! If this will be not very difficult, please, in the future, try to centralize the plymouth points that appear underneath the word "Lubuntu" during boot ... Not very important, but it would look more accurate and precise ... maybe changing the position of the image or increasing/ cuting some side... ... 😊
[20:57] <wxl> @JyotiGomes the dots are centered by default. the image itself is centered across the whole screen, but i believe if you ignore the hummingbird, it looks off relative to the letters
 I was told that Ubuntu Kylin has a really nice Plymouth screen though
 @wxl [<wxl> @JyotiGomes the dots are centered by default. the image itself is centered …], I know that the image is centred across the whole screen, some time ago i buil a "distro" based in Lubuntu just for fun (and as a complete ignorant of programming, using just the Pinguybuilder and some basic scripts) and i used to do this par
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://i.imgur.com/etq6dAd.jpg
 but, as i said, this is not important, is just an idea
[23:03] <Tr4sh> there are a bug with .py files, after I create a .py file does not recognized the file type but I need to write a letter in the files. Anyone have the same problem?
[23:05] <wxl> which version? in what component are ylou having this problem? what is this "letter?"
[23:07] <Tr4sh> wxl: 18.10. Any letter for example i need to open the file write "a" and save
[23:07] <wxl> Tr4sh: so you're creating a blank file that ends in .py and you expect it to be recognized as a particular file type?
[23:09] <Tr4sh> wxl: yes, if i create a .c file is recognized as .c file (with icon) and it open with vim if i create .py file is recognized as text file and it open with leafpad (instead vim). I don't know if is system bug or it is only my problem
[23:11] <wxl> Tr4sh: and when you write a letter in it, it's recognized as a python file and opens in vim?
[23:11] <Tr4sh> yes
[23:12] <wxl> in pcmanfm-qt, i have the same experience with c files
[23:14] <wxl> as far as i can tell, it's functioning as intended
[23:14] <wxl> generally associated applications are based more on the content of the file than the extension.. that's kind of windows thinking
[23:15] <wxl> that said, you're welcome to file an upstream issue with lxqt and see if they have any interest in changing it
[23:15] <wxl> if it were me, i'd open up my editor and start editing..... and then save the file.
[23:16] <Tr4sh> so i need to open an issue to lxqt and not in lubuntu repo?
[23:16] <wxl> yep
[23:16] <wxl> i wouldn't call it a bug so much as a feature request
[23:19] <Tr4sh> ok, thank you
[23:25] <jrshaul> Can anyone suggest a viable way to make a Lubuntu persistent USB stick install from Windows? Unetbootin crashes with persistent storage enabled and Linux Live USB creator doesn't work at all.
[23:27] <Tr4sh> jrshaul: try with etcher
[23:32] <jrshaul> Thanks!


[00:10] <CuriousGeorge> heylo has anyone used kubuntu mobile on the N900 yet?
[00:11] <CuriousGeorge> i just found out about it's release and wanna know more about it.
[00:11] <CuriousGeorge> loling
[00:12] <CuriousGeorge> seriously though. it looks really nice.
[00:13] <CuriousGeorge> anybody out there?
[00:16] <CuriousGeorge> has anybody tried kubuntu-mobile on the N900 yet?
[00:17] <CuriousGeorge> ello???
[00:18] <CuriousGeorge> has anybody tried kubuntu-mobile on the N900 yet?
[00:24] <CuriousGeorge> hello has anybody tried kubuntu-mobile on the N900 yet? i am thinking of trying it out. would like to hear peoples encounters.
[00:37] <corvus_> Will Kubuntu run ok on a P4 2.6 ghz 1 gb ram system?
[00:38] <kay-inge_> kubuntu runs on a sempron 3000+ 768MB ram system by me at work, not very fast, but it runs and its usable
[00:39] <corvus_> Does it tend to hang a lot?
[00:42] <kay-inge_> you need some patience and have to deactivate the desktop effects, but when the programs are loaded, it runs smooth
[00:42] <corvus_> Ah, ok. Thanks!
[00:44] <kay-inge_> at work, i got dolphin, firefox, thunderbird, libreoffice always open
[00:44] <kay-inge_> not very fast, but usable
[00:44] <corvus_> What's your remaining memory with those programs open?
[00:45] <kay-inge_> i couldn't say that, don't know at this time
[00:51] <CuriousGeorge> wow. i am installing it on a core2duo with 3.1 ghz and 5 gig ram:)
[00:52] <CuriousGeorge> i think it should run just fine for me;)
[00:52] <CuriousGeorge> i wanna try it out on my moms quadcore though..hehe
[00:53] <CuriousGeorge> i only hope i set up dual-booting corrwectly..hehe.
[00:55] <CuriousGeorge> sweet i installed the GRUB correctly:):)
[00:56] <CuriousGeorge> loling
[00:57] <CuriousGeorge> loling
[00:58] <CuriousGeorge> hmm i am already liking kubuntu..
[00:58] <CuriousGeorge> a nice KDE desktop and runs very smooth..:)
[01:00] <CuriousGeorge> yes.. i already like kubuntu better than ubuntu:):) no stupid Unity plug-ins:):):)
[01:40] <jschall> kde is turning my laptop's screen off after a period of inactivity (even while VLC is running) regardless of settings in the power management profiles. any help?
[02:19] <shadesandcolour> i seem to be having a problem getting the latest release to boot live
[02:20] <shadesandcolour> i've made sure to download the mac specific image
[02:21] <shadesandcolour> but when i try to boot i eventually get an error that a live file system can't be found
[02:27] <deer3212> try in a virtual machine....mount the iso as a optic drive
[02:33] <pangolin> anybody who can recommend a webcam that works OTB in Kubuntu 11.10?
[02:40] <Guest82073> Can anyone tell me what the panel widget name is that shows open windows?   I 'm used to gnome and that widget was called window something or other. it at least have the name window in it.
[03:07] <psykatog> I've just installed and configured my KDE desktop (kubuntu 11.10) - Is there a way to save my configuration before experimenting with a few widgets?
[03:11] <psykatog> Hello?  How to save a backup of KDE configurations?
[03:35] <akaruna> hello folks
[03:35] <akaruna> im new here and looking to learn more abount linux and loving the KDE look and feel
[03:37] <akaruna> about*
[05:49] <psykatog> Has anyone here used Kpart for partitioning before?
[07:30] <jayjay_> list
[09:05] <Ripp__> Hi. I want to prevent my Kubuntu laptop from hibernating or going into sleep mode (I'm running some simulations which I'd like to leave overnight.) What is the easiest way to do this?
[09:06] <Ripp__> Kubuntu 11.10, btw
[09:07] <Ripp__> nm found it
[10:22] <Amokrun> Anyone with experience on the migration to kmail2 around?
[11:22] <reisi> Amokrun: i remember it failing completly with kubuntu upgrade (known issue back then), had to do it manually (there must had been a howto, probably linked from the known issues)
[11:23] <denys_z> Hi, sorry for second message, but i think my first one didn't get posted: I am having big trouble with KDE after KDE monitor failing - one of the monitors isn't enabled (and I can't enable it back), panels aren't showing and KDE crushes when I try to add a new panel. Could someone help me with this?
[11:24] <denys_z> is there a way to repair KDE settings/installation?
[11:24] <reisi> denys_z: so is your second monitor still "connected"? as in, can you move your mouse over there?
[11:26] <denys_z> sorry, it was "KDE monitor daemon failing", but my second monitor is physically connected but not working (mouse won't go over it)
[11:26] <denys_z> I did reboot the system - didn't help
[11:28] <reisi> denys_z: hmmm so you end up with one monitor which displays nothing (perhaps background) and you cannot get your mouse over there?
[11:29] <reisi> denys_z: is this when you are logged in or can't you get into the login screen either?
[11:29] <denys_z> not really, it is not even detected by the system so it si in stand-by mode, however it is not the biggest problem - the problem is that KDE won't show any panels and windows - they flick when I alt-tab but never get displayed
[11:30] <denys_z> it is when i am logged on
[11:31] <denys_z> I suspect it could be ATI drivers - is there a way to disable a particular driver?
[11:31] <denys_z> from console - cuz UI won't behave at all
[11:32] <reisi> denys_z: hmm perhaps, but if you are already logged into the console, try "DISPLAY=:0 xrandr"
[11:35] <reisi> denys_z: you can even do this over ssh; can you get any output?
[11:36] <denys_z> yep
[11:36] <denys_z> it says that only one monitor is connected
[11:37] <denys_z> DFP1 connected, DFP2 disconnected, CRT1/2 disconnected
[11:40] <Amokrun> reisi: For some reason, kmail2 is behaving really wrong for me.
[11:40] <Amokrun> The migrations of course failed.
[11:40] <Amokrun> After doing it manually, it worked for a few days and then stopped sending any mail.
[11:40] <Amokrun> That got sort of fixed with purge of akonadi files.
[11:40] <Amokrun> But now it moved to the most interesting phase of deleting any mail you view from both local and remote storage.
[11:41] <Amokrun> So the moment I click a mail, it's permanently gone.
[11:41] <Amokrun> During all the years I've used e-mail, I can't recall a single case where e-mail client managed to destroy mail permanently.
[11:43] <sundar> hi, i have a problem with pthread. i keep getting this error __pthread_mutex_cond_lock: Assertion `mutex->__data.__owner == 0' failed (not that often)
[11:43] <reisi> denys_z: hmm oki
[11:43] <sundar> i have 2 threads in my app. one to receive packets from network, signal the other thread to process it
[11:43] <reisi> denys_z: is the resolution et al ok for the DFP1
[11:44] <sundar> i am taking care of locking/unlocking the mutex my the respective thread. still am getting this issue
[11:44] <sundar> any idea what could be the problem?
[11:44] <sundar> gcc is 4.5.2
[11:45] <reisi> sundar: you might want to take it over to #c++ or #linux, or just google, i guess someone else have had that assertion come up; there's mainly kubuntu user questions in this channel
[11:45] <sundar> reisi, ok thanks ill try in #linux
[11:45] <reisi> sundar: though, i'd check which call causes that assertion, and compare it to the other thread
[11:46] <reisi> Amokrun: put a message out in to the mailinglist
[11:47] <reisi> Amokrun: use that mozilla email client, i wouldn't go opening the kmail anymore
[11:47] <Amokrun> reisi: Yeah, I already killed any references to the mail box in both akonadi and kmail.
[11:47] <Amokrun> reisi: Don't feel like losing any more mail randomly or seeing what the next stage of kmail2 is.
[11:47] <reisi> i so hate akonadi, it's like dbus; yet another single point of failure, if it doesn't work nothing just doesn't seem to work either
[11:48] <Amokrun> I find it interesting that these almost-out-of-beta technologies keep appearing in KDE.
[11:48] <denys_z> reisi: sorry, I was an idiot - my second monitor's DVI cable was loose. now it is working
[11:48] <Amokrun> I like KDE but for whatever reason, they keep finding these broken components from somewhere.
[11:49] <reisi> lately i've noticed that even when indexing is turned off there is still some indexing related process hoggin very much memory, though it's safe to kill it
[11:49] <Amokrun> Back in the 3.X days it was Arts that did whatever it felt like.
[11:49] <denys_z> it was a strange behaviour though  - KDE was totally going mad and couldn't display any windows or panels
[11:49] <reisi> Amokrun: well i understand their ambitions with akonadi; and i understand the need to push new software, otherwise it'd never get used
[11:50] <Amokrun> Certainly. I don't mind the theory behind this.
[11:50] <reisi> i really wouldn't want to go back to the time with ARTS :D i ended up going around it in most cases any ways
[11:51] <Amokrun> It's just that you don't want to end up deleting mail randomly. That's about the worst thing you can do.
[11:51] <reisi> denys_z: yeah well.. i guess i should have asked if the cable is infact plugged in :)
[11:51] <Amokrun> I can deal with broken software if it fails gracefully.
[11:51] <reisi> Amokrun: hard to understand what would have made it to do that.. well they are going to be interested when you file the report
[11:53] <Amokrun> Humdidum... I think I have a clue now.
[11:53] <Amokrun> It turns out that Akonadi has screwed up all the paths for mail boxes.
[11:53] <Amokrun> Local, that is.
[11:53] <Amokrun> Now that I have saved-messages pointing somewhere again, it kinda works.
[11:54] <Amokrun> It still deletes the mails but it moves them to saved-messags.
[11:54] <Amokrun> Though it never did this before.
[11:54] <Amokrun> So they disappear from inbox but with refresh appear there again.
[11:54] <Amokrun> Only grey this time.
[11:54] <Amokrun> So apparently someone decided to change the way this works by default.
[11:54] <Amokrun> But since the defauls are broken after migration, it ends up dropping the messages on the floor.
[11:55] <Amokrun> Or that's my guess at this point.
[11:57] <Amokrun> Though in any case, dropping the mail on the floor if the folder doesn't exist is still scary.
[12:09] <Exilant> hi, does vlc or any other program in kubuntu act as a upnp/dlna client?
[12:10] <Exilant> found some posts claiming vlc should be one, but all from before 2008
[12:16] <Peace-> Exilant: ffmpeg ?
[12:16] <Peace-> dunno
[12:25] <Amokrun> Okay, this is truly puzzling.
[12:25] <Amokrun> After randomly messing with the folders, re-creating them a couple of times etc. it now looks like it works.
[12:25] <Amokrun> Only problem is, I don't know if it'll actually work or if it'll start doing something weird again.
[12:26] <osinclair> amokrun_: u still online?
[12:27] <osinclair> amokrun_: I ended up moving .kde folder and .local folder and then install KDEPIM fresh
[12:28] <osinclair> then I reimported mail, recreated accounts, filters etc. Now have it back to where it was
[12:28] <Amokrun> I did something similar.
[12:28] <Amokrun> However, my mail is on IMAP.
[12:29] <Amokrun> The only thing I cannot explain is why it deletes e-mail randomly.
[12:29] <Amokrun> I can't figure out what would cause kmail to delete a message that you are trying to view.
[12:29] <osinclair> amokrun_: I understand IMAP is a headache, only use pop3 myself
[12:29] <osinclair> agree on that one - the mail deleting that is
[12:29] <Amokrun> I verified that it actually does go and delete the message from remote host.
[12:30] <Amokrun> So it clearly tries to do something clever there.
[12:30] <osinclair> and do install akonadiconsole.. if your "akonadi sender" goes offline you can toggle it back online
[12:30] <Amokrun> Did already, that tool is the only way akonadi is reasonably useful.
[12:30] <Amokrun> At least you know when it melts.
[12:30] <osinclair> Amokrun_: can not heå much on imap - you tried kdepim mailing list?
[12:32] <Amokrun> I think I have this sort of working now.
[12:32] <Amokrun> I'll post something once I figure out which forum is appropriate.
[12:32] <Amokrun> I think the bit that is most broken here is that you can end up in a situation where mail is silently destroyed.
[12:32] <osinclair> Amokrun_: I got help via kdepim mailing list or kubuntu mailing list
[12:32] <Amokrun> All the rest has to do with the migration being broken.
[12:33] <osinclair> and I would seriously hate losing mail...
[12:33] <osinclair> Amokrun_: however kubuntu packagers did advice to reinstall rahter than migrate
[12:34] <Amokrun> Well, given that the migrate box is what jumps out when you do the installation... :-)
[12:35] <osinclair> Amokrun_: yes.. I know. I ended up doing a reinstall of Kubuntu
[12:36] <Amokrun> I wonder why everyone includes that migration tool since it seems to be busted. I read several discussions from Arch users with similar issues six months ago.
[12:36] <Amokrun> Apparently the same migration tool was equally busted and broke all sorts of stuff.
[12:36] <Amokrun> Oh, by the way. Anyone having issues with the taskbar crashing?
[12:36] <Amokrun> Or just me?
[12:36] <Amokrun> It was reasonably stable in last release.
[12:37] <osinclair> Amokrun_: Arch was the first release to include KDEPIM 2, hence the problems
[12:38] <Quintasan> We can't really drop pim2
[12:38] <osinclair> Amokrun_: and kubuntu packagers held back and kept it in experimental. Wisely. I tried already then but gave up
[12:39] <osinclair> amokrun_: taskbar fine for me, Kontact crash when I close it
[12:39] <Quintasan> The only thing developers and users can do is to get as much debug info as possible and send them to kdepim team
[12:39]  * Quintasan stopped using KMail for the very same reasons
[12:39] <Amokrun> Okay. My taskbar is almost quaranteed to crash on shutdown and crashes randomly otherwise.
[12:40] <Amokrun> Goes down almost randomly sometimes without any activity.
[12:40] <Amokrun> Did the same with the KDE beta release earlier but much less frequently.
[12:42] <osinclair> amokrun_:you don't mean plasma desktop, I get the odd crash there?
[12:42] <Amokrun> Yes, that might be it. The only visible issue is that the taskbar goes down for a moment,.
[12:43] <osinclair> Amokrun_: that is plasma desktop and I suspect Kubuntu to be honest
[12:44] <osinclair> amokrun_: you upgraded to 4.7.4? It seems more stable to me
[12:44] <Amokrun> Not yet, although I might do that.
[12:44] <Amokrun> This release seems to be hit and miss with some things.
[12:45] <Amokrun> I was already thinking of moving back to 3.X releases. The 4.X doesn't really bring anything to the table that I need.
[12:46] <osinclair> amokrun_: search for trinitydesktop project then. But 4.7.4 is more stable then 4.7.3
[12:46] <Amokrun> Yeah, already have everything ready for that.
[12:46] <Amokrun> Got to test it in a virtual install first.
[12:47] <osinclair> http://www.trinitydesktop.org - I run it on some old desktops
[12:48] <osinclair> amokrun_: it is more or less a 1-man project though
[13:13] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[13:14]  * jussi waves to BluesKaj
[13:18]  * BluesKaj waves back at jussi :)
[13:27] <marc_> hello
[14:19] <babalu> hey, i tried upgrading yesterday my kubuntu from 10.10 to 11.04, but now when i try to boot my computer, it's all black and i can't do anything; any help on that please?
[14:30] <Peace-> babalu: ?? have you started kernel recovery ?
[15:08] <rosco_y> adf
[15:26] <scherenhaenden> hi everybody, how could i install or uprade my kubuntu to ubuntu studio
[15:31] <scherenhaenden> id like to install that low latency kernel too
[15:34] <krise> Hello, i still dont understand how can i install icon files, how can log in as root or something to copy icon files to icons folder
[15:35] <krise> impossible to install themes via system settings window
[15:37] <krise> its almost year 2012 and its still pain
[15:39] <kbroulik> why was Kontact removed by upgrading to 4.8 RC 1 in Kubuntu?
[15:48] <scherenhaenden> what is the name of the package for real time kernel.?
[16:06] <daviddoria> The updater froze in the middle of an update. Now when I boot I can't get past the splash screen. I tried to pass some options to grub, but when I press 'e' the options do not appear, simply nothing happens. Any idea what to do about that?
[16:58] <DarthFrog> daviddoria:  Try booting from a LiveCD, mount your Linux partition somewhere and bind mount /dev, /proc & /sys into it (http://fermilinux.fnal.gov/documentation/tips/mount-bind-chroot), then chroot into your mounted partition.  You can then fix it.
[17:33] <zpr0od> hey.
[20:05]  * coolstar-pc is seeing if he can speak
[20:05] <coolstar-pc> Ok
[20:10] <Drakmor> Hey, anyone able to give me a hand with my .asoundrc setup?
[20:22] <doriad_> is there a way to start a second desktop session?
[20:23] <SunTsu> doriad_: sure, at the logout part of the KDE menu, new user session
[20:24] <doriad_> SunTsu, can I use the same user twice?
[20:24] <doriad_> The only thing I see is the "switch user" button
[20:24] <SunTsu> doriad_: yes, but that can kill your config files
[20:32] <doriad_> SunTsu, what do you mean it "can" do that? Is there something I can do to prevent it? I would really like to be the same user in both environments
[20:34] <SunTsu> doriad_: well, you might have processes writing to the same config at the same time, which might end up in corruption of those files
[21:47] <MarcosBox_> sera
[21:51] <rork> ciao MarcosBox_
[21:51] <rork> !it
[22:31] <psykatog> Is it possible to make a folder hidden in dolphin?  Ie, the amazon kindle app creates a folder in the home directory titled "My Kindle Content" - Since moving the folder creates problems, is there a way to make it stay hidden?
[23:08] <randomatix> Hi, Dolphin has developed some weird behavior.  When sorting by Date and clicking to expand a directory name, the files in the directory appear ABOVE the dir name, or perhaps at the top of the window.
[23:09] <randomatix> Also, Dolphin does not seem to always notice directory/file name changes without a refresh.  Any ideas?
[23:27] <rosco_y> How do I set ubuntu to automatically open my kalarm software when I log in?
[23:35] <randomatix> Is anyone else running Dolphin  4.7.90 from the ppa?
[23:46] <ussher__> after an upgrade my kubuntu stopped getting all the way to the KDE login screen at boot.  In order to get to the graphical boot screen i need to do ctrl+alt+F6, login, then do 'sudo start kdm'  which starts it just fine.  Im not sure where to start looking for the cause of the issue, any ideas on a useful google term for this situation?
[23:53] <wilhart> hi, where do i see graphic card memory ?
[23:56] <ussher__> wilhart: do you have 'kinfocenter' under your 'systems' menu