[00:23] <ScottK> Now here's a descriptive changelog entry for you: "Bugger off cdbs, may it burn in hell."
[00:24] <mdeslaur> lol
[00:24] <\sh> a good one ;)
[00:25] <slangasek> Closes: all the bugs, without a doubt
[00:40] <robert_ancell> anyone know how to disable make check in dh7?
[00:41] <ion> I’d try “override_dh_auto_test:” first.
[00:42] <slangasek> yes
[00:42] <slangasek> if you want it disabled at the package level
[00:42] <slangasek> if you want to disable it temporarily for a local build, DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nocheck
[00:42] <robert_ancell> thanks
[00:42] <slangasek> but why are you disabling tests? :)
[00:43] <robert_ancell> slangasek, libsecret tests aren't running for some reason when building with debuild, but do work fine when using local build
[00:43] <slangasek> missing build dep?
[00:43] <robert_ancell> no, this is building locally in both cases (one using bzr-buildpacakge, one in git)
[00:44] <robert_ancell> and I think at least one test required $DISPLAY
[00:44] <slangasek> ah
[00:45] <slangasek> ideally 'xvfb-run make test' then
[00:45] <slangasek> er, check
[00:45] <robert_ancell> but too many things are blocking on it now, so really need to get it working
[00:45]  * slangasek nods
[00:45]  * slangasek reads about libsecret.  Why is upstream replacing gnome-keyring? :P
[00:46] <robert_ancell> it's a rewrite and it's no longer gnome specific
[00:46] <robert_ancell> same authors
[00:46] <slangasek> hmm
[00:46] <slangasek> same interfaces? :)
[00:46] <robert_ancell> nope
[00:46] <slangasek> bleh
[00:46] <robert_ancell> I think it's an opportunity to learn from past mistakes
[00:46] <slangasek> well, I guess the set of revdeps is manageable anyway
[00:47] <RAOF> You might also need dbus-test-runner, which someone should get to Debian, too.
[00:47] <robert_ancell> btw, does anyone know the correct way to make GIR files install into /usr/lib/girepository-1.0 when the libraries are multi-arch?  Or should gir files be multiarch too>
[00:47] <robert_ancell> ?
[00:48] <slangasek> ideally they should be in the multiarch dir
[00:48] <slangasek> since they are arch-specific and you may want them for more than one arch at a time
[00:49] <robert_ancell> slangasek, does that work? There don't seem to be any other packages doing that
[00:49] <slangasek> robert_ancell: there's precisely one package doing this currently: gir1.2-guestfs-1.0
[00:49] <slangasek> dunno if it works
[00:49] <slangasek> most don't because of the gir bits being from a different, non-multiarched source package from the C lib
[01:26] <roaksoax> is quantal archive frozen or anything?
[02:06] <ScottK> roaksoax: Not officially.  We're trying to collect a stack of packages to accept all at once for scalability testing.  see cjwatson's mail on freezing to Ubuntu devel.
[02:50] <micahg> benc: BTW, I uploaded the PowerPC fixes for lightning to our staging PPA, I'm waiting on the branch that quantal is using to upload that one
[02:51] <BenC> micahg: I saw it built successfully, glad I could help
[02:51] <micahg> benc: thank you, that means we get coverage across the board 6 weeks early
[02:51] <micahg> well, except for the broken neon on arm*...
[03:08] <infinity> micahg: Which broken neon on arm?
[03:09] <infinity> ScottK: We're not trying to get a stack of packages to do at once, just to do lots of different packages via the CLI tool to see if anything explodes or times out.
[03:09] <micahg> infinity: the thing you fixed in quantal
[03:09] <micahg> just having it enabled at build time
[03:09] <infinity> micahg: Well, sure, but I fixed it, so I was curious about the "still broken" bit.
[03:10] <ScottK> infinity: If we aren't we should.  When I had trouble with the web UI, it was mostly with multiple accepts.  Very rarely was it a single package.
[03:10] <infinity> (Well, "fixed"... With a bit of a large hammer)
[03:10] <micahg> infinity: well, I meant in the stable releases it'll be broken unless we need a respin
[03:10] <micahg> or until th next train
[03:10] <infinity> ScottK: If you have to slim down to a single package here and there, such is life.  At least that's trivial with the CLI (queue info | mangle output | xargs queue accept)
[03:11] <infinity> ScottK: The concern is that there could be single packages that will end our world.
[03:11] <micahg> but otherwise, we have all archs back (well, except for sparc/ia64, but who's running a lucid desktop on that these days anyways)
[03:12] <ScottK> infinity: Yes, but it varies.  If you can accept them in large stacks, the odds you get screwed by one go down as the only times I ever had problems with specific individual packages were also times I was constrained by the number it would do before timeout.
[03:12] <infinity> ScottK: *shrug*
[03:12] <ScottK> And doing them one at a time you never know if you tried one of the 'harder' ones or not.
[03:12] <infinity> ScottK: I'm literally just blindly batch-accepting what's in unapproved occasionally.
[03:12] <ScottK> OK.
[03:14]  * ScottK is trying to kill off Debian RC bugs tonight.  Got 5 so far today.
[03:30] <BenC> infinity: How do orphaned packages get dropped from the archive?
[03:30] <BenC> e.g. kde-runtime no longer creates kde-runtime-dev, but it's still a valid package (although uninstallable)
[03:31] <BenC> at least one thing build-deps on it (plasma-mobile), but of course, it can't be built now (I'm planning on fixing the build-deps after I verify it)
[03:36] <pitti> Good morning
[03:40] <infinity> BenC: I've been waiting on the last merger of plasma-mobile to package up a new upstream snapshot that makes it sane and buildable again.
[03:40] <infinity> BenC: We drop NBS packages when nothing is left depending on them.
[03:41] <BenC> infinity: Ok, then I'll leave plasma-mobile till then
[03:41] <infinity> BenC: Yeah, changing build-deps won't be enough, already been there. ;)
[03:42] <infinity> BenC: Have you met http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html ?
[03:43] <BenC> No, but thanks
[03:43] <BenC> More lengthy than I would have guessed
[03:43] <infinity> It'll start shrinking rapidly, now that Debian autosyncs are off.
[03:46]  * micahg wonders when we'll get our first rebuild
[03:46] <infinity> doko wanted to do one late last week.  He must have forgotten in the excitement of kayaking and bodysurfing.
[03:48] <micahg> great, I'm curious to see what havoc gcc-4.7 and the various new upstream imported have wreaked on the rest of the archive
[03:49] <infinity> gcc-4.7 shouldn't be too bad, in that rebuilds were done already and bugs filed.
[03:49] <infinity> But I'm sure some where missed.
[03:49] <infinity> I think getting the NBS list down before a rebuild is sane anyway.
[03:50] <infinity> Since lots of stuff is FTBFS right now with broken or out-of-date build-deps.
[03:50] <micahg> well, we have --as-needed by default :)
[03:50] <micahg> although, that's old news
[03:50] <infinity> I've not noticed any weird interactions between 4.7 and as-needed... Have you?
[03:50] <infinity> Seems to be business as usual.
[03:50] <micahg> no, not really, which means it's about time for me to go to sleep :)
[03:50] <infinity> Toodles.
[05:07] <pitti> cjwatson: just accepted two pacakges from quantal/unapproved using the local queue tool; great work on this!
[06:59] <infinity> rbelem: Did anything ever come of the plan to update plasma-mobile in quantal with a newer version?
[07:15] <cjwatson> ScottK,infinity: Lots of packages at once will definitely not be a problem with the API client.  The timeout is applied per request, and acceptFromQueue is a method on individual PackageUpload objects, so the client always (has to) accept one at a time regardless of how many you give it on the command line.
[07:16] <cjwatson> ScottK: I know skaet occasionally reported problems with even accepting a single package using the web UI.
[07:17] <cjwatson> But it's true that lots at once greatly increased the odds.
[07:19] <dholbach> pitti, weird - now booting without 'quiet splash' seems to have worked *shrug*
[07:20] <pitti> dholbach: yeah, it always works for me as well
[07:20] <pitti> something weird with the plymouth integration of encrypted swap devices or so
[07:20] <dholbach> but it got stuck 3 times before
[07:20] <dholbach> maybe it's just intermittent
[08:16] <bambee> hi, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1096244/  ^^
[10:27] <seb128> cjwatson, hey, do you know if that ubiquity issue is know,being worked? (that's one of the most reported issues on errors.ubuntu.com)?
[10:27] <seb128> https://errors.ubuntu.com/bucket/?id=/usr/lib/ubiquity/bin/ubiquity:ValueError:watch_debconf_fd_helper:process_input:wait:cleanup:preseed:%3Clambda%3E:command
[10:28] <seb128> cjwatson, I find some similar looking bugs in launchpad bug I'm not sure they are exact matches
[10:32] <seb128> cjwatson, like the title on bug #986804 matches but the bug has hardly any detail
[10:45] <pitti> seb128: do you know what's the yellow bits on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html ?
[10:45] <pitti> that seems to be new, and not documented in the header
[10:46] <Laney> bdmurray explained in #-release
[10:46] <Laney> it means "new comments since v-done" IIRC
[10:47] <seb128> pitti, I was wondering the same thing today
[10:47] <pitti> oh, I see the commit
[10:47] <seb128> "  sru-report: as a first draft change the bug color to yellow if it's date_last_message is later than the publishing date of the package
[10:47] <seb128> "
[10:47] <pitti>   sru-report: as a first draft change the bug color to yellow if it's date_last_message is later than the publishing date of the package
[10:47] <seb128> snap :p
[10:48] <seb128> I like that they are sorted by time in proposed btw
[10:48] <pitti> hm, why would that need date of last message? if someone flips it to v-done, it'd still be yellow?
[10:48] <seb128> pitti, no, v-done are green
[10:48] <pitti> ah, so that means "a bug which should be inspected by the SRU team"
[10:48] <pitti> perhaps as a replacement for reading bug mail
[10:48] <seb128> pitti, it's to see which ones might need an update, i.e are still verification-needed but got comments
[10:49] <seb128> it might be that a commenter verified or reported a regression but didn't know to tg
[10:49] <seb128> tag
[10:49] <seb128> pitti, I guess so
[11:22] <Riddell> Laney: I'm getting a curious build error when compiling against libxml2
[11:22] <Riddell> http://paste.kde.org/518930/
[11:22] <Riddell> Laney: if I rebuild libxml2 it goes away
[11:23] <Riddell> do you recon it would work if I just rebuilt it in the archive?
[11:23] <Laney> erm
[11:23] <Laney> did zlib break abi?
[11:26] <Riddell> Laney: it has had multiarch things going on
[11:29] <Laney> hmm
[11:29] <Laney> libxml2 was uploaded after zlib
[11:34] <Laney> Riddell: is your chroot fully updated?
[11:36] <Riddell> Laney: should be but let me try again
[11:38] <Laney> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=673297
[12:38] <Riddell> Laney: that fixes it, thanks :)
[12:38] <Laney> ;-)
[12:41] <ogra_> pitti, pingaling
[12:41] <ogra_> pitti, i'm testing ac100 images atm, while running "ubuntu-drivers list" gets me the proper return value (nvidiy-tegra), i dont get anything in the drivers gui
[12:41] <pitti> ogra_: pongedidong
[12:42] <ogra_> any hint where i should look ?
[12:42] <pitti> ogra_: we don't have a drivers guy yet, it's still in a branch of didrocks'/cyphermox'
[12:42] <ogra_> oh, so what i see it the old jockey
[12:42] <pitti> yes, that'll go away
[12:42] <ogra_> k, that explains also why it works on the pandaboard :)
[12:43] <pitti> ogra_: "drivers guy" argh, "driver GUI"
[12:43] <ogra_> (we didnt have a jockey hook for ac100, but for omap4)
[12:43] <ogra_> pitti, thanks a lot
[12:43] <pitti> I'm currently working on the backend API, then didrocks will have it finished in no time, I'm sure
[12:43] <pitti> I hope we can land it for a3
[12:43] <ogra_> yeah, yesterday ...
[12:43] <ogra_> he is did*ROCKS* after all :)
[12:44] <pitti> +1
[12:44] <didrocks> ogra_: pitti is doing all the hard work, don't trust this free ad ;)
[12:45] <ogra_> didrocks, verbally bluching wont help, you still rock ;)
[12:45] <ogra_> *blushing
[12:45] <didrocks> heh :-)
[12:45] <pitti> didrocks: system_device_drivers() just pushed; feel free to use from git (just set PYTHONPATH) if you want to play with it already
[12:46] <didrocks> pitti: \o/ thanks a lot!
[12:46]  * didrocks pulls
[12:46] <pitti> didrocks: I'll add a new mode to ubuntu-drivers ("by-device") so that you can use it in textual form
[12:46] <didrocks> pitti: that will be really handy :)
[12:47] <ogra_> btw, since i just built a new machine here and added two graphics adapters ... if someone would be insane enough to add radeon and nvidia cards at the same time to the same machine, can we finally handle that case ?
[12:48] <ogra_> (iirc there were issues with the GL libs, i was wondering if multiarch saves us from that)
[12:48] <pitti> ogra_: /usr/share/ubuntu-drivers-common/fake-devices-wrapper <command> (e. g. ubuntu-drivers or didrocks' GUI), and you'll have both of them :)
[12:48] <ogra_> well, would they also *run* ?
[12:48] <pitti> but yes, nvidia still replaces the system's GL libray; I woudl have thought that tseliot's alternatives handling might save us here, though
[12:49] <ogra_> ah, yeah
[12:49] <pitti> you can't run them both at the same time, I'd guess
[12:49] <pitti> but at least switch between the two without changing packages
[12:49] <ogra_> yup
[12:52] <didrocks> pitti: ah, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1096566/ using the wrapper
[12:52] <pitti> didrocks: in case you pulled already, please pull -f
[12:53] <pitti> didrocks: yup, that's what I just fixed, sorry about that
[12:53] <didrocks> no worry :)
[12:53] <pitti> didrocks: fglrx isn't being tested in the test suite, bad me :/
[12:53] <didrocks> pitti: you rewrote history, how dare you! (j/k)
[12:53] <pitti> didrocks: but presumably I just did the very thing you tried
[12:53] <didrocks> heh, seems so :)
[12:53] <pitti> yeah, I prefer consistent commits, as long as the previous push hasn't been too long ago
[12:53] <didrocks> pitti: was just kidding :)
[12:54]  * pitti hugs didrocks
[12:54]  * didrocks hugs pitti. Thanks for your good work!
[12:58] <didrocks> pitti: looks perfect to me, but yeah, some case in the wrapper where you create a fake "manual_install" one will be good. Will fake that into the my system answer for now
[13:08] <pitti> didrocks: any suggestions? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1096582/
[13:12] <didrocks> pitti: you don't have an example from not comming from distro as far as I can see (but this is linked to the manual_install discussion we had I guess). Otherwise, the needed info seems there! Great :)
[13:12] <didrocks> pitti: no ascii orders for attributes?
[13:12] <pitti> right, no support for the manual flag yet
[13:12] <pitti> didrocks: sorry, ascii orders?
[13:13] <didrocks> pitti: like "builtin distro free" instead of "distro free builtin"
[13:14] <pitti> didrocks: it's a pretty arbitrary order, but I can change it around if you want; but it's just a debugging tool anyway
[13:15] <didrocks> pitti: right, I was wondering if later we want to do some platform tests using it
[13:15] <pitti> didrocks: oh, it's a predictable (i. e. stable) order
[13:15] <pitti> so you can string-match it if you want
[13:16] <didrocks> ok, as long as we have examples on the order, that's fine :)
[13:19] <brendand> why is user /usr/bin/python still pointing to 2.7 in quantal? i thought that was fixed?
[13:19] <tseliot> ogra_, pitti: you can do that as long as you use open drivers for both cards ;)
[13:20] <pitti> brendand: fixed how? "python" will always be python 2.x
[13:20] <pitti> python3 is 3.x
[13:20] <ogra_> tseliot, lol, well, then i wouldnt use ubuntu-drivers i guess
[13:21] <brendand> pitti - ok. maybe a different issue then. but apport-cli points to python so is not running on quantal
[13:22] <pitti> brendand: oh, bug
[13:23] <brendand> pitti, right. so the approach is that the applications need to change their shebang, rather than point /usr/bin/python at 3.2?
[13:23] <pitti> yes, as soon as they got ported to py3
[13:23] <pitti> brendand: I made a note to fix the shebang of apport-cli
[13:26] <ScottK> stgraber: FYI, the partman-target piece of Bug #992241 is done (in -updates) and I copied the pending Ubiquity SRU as well, so the path is clear to do the Ubiquity part of that one.
[13:39] <stgraber> ScottK: thanks. I'll prepare an ubiquity upload today.
[13:47] <bdrung> dholbach: sponsors-queue crashes on my system with: lazr.restfulclient.errors.ServerError: HTTP Error 503: Service Unavailable
[13:47] <bdrung> dholbach: does it work on your system?
[13:48] <dholbach> let me see
[13:52] <dholbach> bdrung, still running
[13:56] <dholbach> bdrung, it works
[13:57] <LambdaDusk> hi, I am trying to develop some graphics app, and somehow I get errors when trying to open a window with GLFW and GLUT... GLFW tells me nothing, but GLUT says something about a framebuffer missing
[14:03] <bdrung> dholbach: it's reproducable here: http://paste.debian.net/179474/
[14:03] <dholbach> bdrung, I won't have the time to look into it, I'm afraid
[14:29] <Debolaz> LambdaDusk: It seems #ubuntu-app-devel might be a better place to ask.
[15:13] <BenC> Laney: Any idea when ghc-7.4.2 is coming?
[15:13] <Laney> 17/07 12:28:02 <erikde> oh, ok. will do.
[15:13] <Laney> 17/07 12:28:37 <erikde> maybe not today, bit busy. should be over the next couple of days.
[15:13] <BenC> It appears to fix a test suite failure in cryptocipher on ppc
[15:14] <BenC> Ok, thanks
[15:30] <xnox> any idea or bug # when theming aka square radio buttons will be fixed?
[15:30] <xnox> seb128: or somebody else? ^^^
[15:31] <seb128> xnox, no idea, I didn't even know they were broken
[15:31] <seb128> kenvandine, ^
[15:31] <xnox> seb128: are you using quantal? =)))
[15:31] <kenvandine> they are a little ugly, not sure if there is a bug filed for it
[15:31] <seb128> xnox, no, I'm on the 12.04.1 team
[15:31] <mterry> sladen, you have some unpushed changes in ubuntu-mono.  Is trunk  OK to push to quantal?  (I have a imagemagick4->5 transition that I wanted to push)
[15:32] <kenvandine> the theme needs quite a bit of love, which hopefully will happen real soon
[15:32] <kenvandine> xnox, wouldn't hurt to file a bug
[15:32]  * ogra_ has seen this being discussed here several times
[15:32] <ogra_> would be surprising if there wasnt a bug already
[15:33] <xnox> kenvandine: it looks as if, it's the fallout from theming brake upstream
[15:33] <kenvandine> xnox, yeah
[15:33] <xnox> ogra_: kenvandine: it's just I want to subscribe to know when it will be fixed "for real"
[15:33] <kenvandine> there are quite a few things broken because of upstream changes and our theme not keeping up
[15:33] <stgraber> yeah, highvoltage mentioned it once and mpt tracked it down to a gtk regression IIRC, I seem to remember an LP bug being mentioned
[15:34] <mpt> iz gtk boog
[15:34] <xnox> stgraber: was it something like "invalid network-manager & ubiquity, fix-release light-themes?"
[15:34] <xnox> mpt: lolz =)
[15:34] <xnox> mpt: do you have a bug number on a square post-it note at your desk by any chance? =)
[15:34] <mpt> xnox, if anyone knows, it's Cimi
[15:35] <mpt> I just asked him and he waved his hand jedi-like and said "everything will be fixed"
[15:35] <highvoltage> xnox ftw [ funny ]
[15:35] <xnox> bug 1015497
[15:36] <xnox> is the closest I can find
[15:37] <smoser> kenvandine, can you sort out https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/762167
[15:37] <sladen> mterry: to the best of my knowledge, yes
[15:37] <xnox> bug 1024099
[15:37] <mterry> sladen, cool, thanks
[15:37] <sladen> mterry: try it and see, and if not, poke me again and I'll do some more investigation about what it/was
[15:38] <kenvandine> smoser, again...
[15:38] <mterry> :)
[15:39] <kenvandine> smoser, yes.,.. i will
[15:39] <smoser> kenvandine, i dont think you ever uploaded. i pinged you once after you uploaded without the fix, but i'm sure it just got lost in the hussle.
[15:39] <smoser> its partially my fault for not just doing an upload, but pushing to lp:ubuntu/ branch
[15:39] <kenvandine> smoser, no i am sure i did upload it
[15:40] <smoser> hm..
[15:40] <smoser> ah.
[15:40] <smoser> then the bug is just probalby in the wrong state.
[15:40] <kenvandine> but the packaging branch got moved around a couple times
[15:40] <smoser> (i see it just got moved from fix released to triaged)
[15:40] <kenvandine> so it might have gotten accidentally reverted
[15:42] <kenvandine> smoser, oh... we fixed it by not needing it
[15:42] <kenvandine>     - Remove the need for gtk2-engines-pixbuf in the gtk2 theme,
[15:42] <kenvandine>       saves some CD space
[15:47] <kenvandine> smoser, so if it is still actually needed, it is a bug in the theme
[15:48] <smoser> kenvandine, ok. good enough. then i think the users of that bug are generally just confused.
[15:48] <smoser> so do you believe this to be fixed in precise?
[15:48] <kenvandine> yes
[15:48] <kenvandine> that version was in april
[15:48] <smoser> if so, can you please comment on that in the bug.
[15:48] <kenvandine> i just did
[15:48] <smoser> great. thank you sir.
[15:48] <kenvandine> np
[15:48] <smoser> sorry for the fire drill
[15:48] <kenvandine> no worries
[15:48] <kenvandine> :)
[15:49] <kenvandine> if it is still printing the warnings then the theme needs fixing
[15:56] <kees> jodh: any plans to add seccomp-bpf to upstart? :)
[16:06] <zul> can an archive admin review python-cliff, python-django-compressor, python-django-appconf, and python-tablib please
[16:14] <jodh> kees: no plans this cycle. I wasn't even aware of this feature: although the kernel supports it, the include files and man pages don't appear to cover it yet.
[16:17] <kees> jodh: it's in 12.04 via a backport. it's all in 3.5.
[16:53] <maxLimit> Good evening
[17:05] <nandersson> didrocks, hi, I am having a look at your project session-migration. Is there  a way to try that out in Ubuntu 12.04?
[17:06] <nandersson> didrocks, I guess I could compile it and package it?
[17:06] <didrocks> nandersson: just retake the same packaging, it should work
[17:07] <nandersson> didrocks, Ok, thanks!
[17:07] <didrocks> yw :)
[17:09] <maxLimit> i tried to import totem source code to eclipse but i get an error message:
[17:09] <maxLimit> make: *** No rule to make target `all'.  Stop.
[17:09] <maxLimit> the message appears after building in eclipse
[17:28] <hippiehacker> I'm off and on, I sent you an email 8)
[17:32] <highvoltage> ogra_: hey ogra_, so you're officially ogra underscore now? :)
[17:37] <ogra_> highvoltage, i'm ogra underscore since hmm, three years now ...
[17:37]  * highvoltage takes long to adjust to these things
[17:37] <ogra_> since i started using a proxy and got to lazy to fight with nickserv
[17:49] <infinity> ogra_: Three year is some serious lazy.
[17:49] <infinity> ogra_: Maybe you should just fix it? :)
[17:51] <alazare619> how do you add a ppa to a chroot build phase with livecd-rootfs?
[17:52] <ogra_> infinity, i will if i switch to a better proxy :)
[17:54] <barry> @pilot in
[18:22] <scientes> indirect linking isn't working for me with multiarch cross-building http://paste.debian.net/179495/
[18:23] <jtaylor> scientes: kytokabinet is underlinked, either link it correctly or disable as-needed
[18:23] <scientes> oh ok
[18:24] <scientes> why does it work natively then?
[18:24] <jtaylor> is kyotocabinet also not linked against lzma natively?
[18:24] <scientes> it is
[18:24] <scientes> i mean, it is linked against lzma
[18:25] <scientes> although ldd doesn't work cause the binary is foreign
[18:25] <jtaylor> you need to do the same for the cross build
[18:25] <infinity> That's easily fixable.
[18:25] <scientes> but i copied it to a armel host, and ldd worked
[18:25] <scientes> yeah it seemed like something that the multi-arch stuf should handle
[18:25] <scientes> infinity, what is easily fixable?
[18:26] <infinity> scientes: The ldd thing is on my TODO.  I had hoped to sort it for wheezy (and maybe I'll still try to squeeze it in)
[18:26] <scientes> do i just need to link against everything, even that which is indirect?
[18:26] <scientes> ok, and when ldd gets fixed it should work?
[18:26] <infinity> scientes: As for your linking issue, it shouldn't relate to the ldd thing, no.
[18:26] <jtaylor> scientes: you also need to disable as-needed
[18:26] <infinity> scientes: Could just be that the cross toolchain is lacking sane -Ls?
[18:27] <scientes> infinity, is that in LDFLAGS, cause if tou see the paste i tried adding those
[18:29] <infinity> scientes: I see a shocking lack of whitespace in -D_KC_APPLIBS="\"-L/usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabi
[18:29] <infinity> In fact, I'm not sure what that's meant to do. :P
[18:30] <infinity> Oh, I see.  That's a big long list with the -lfoo as well.
[18:30] <infinity> I'm misreading that bit.
[18:30] <scientes> that first one works
[18:30] <infinity> Misreading it as something that makes sense to pass to a compiler.
[18:30] <infinity> Which that doesn't.
[18:30] <scientes> its when its indirectly linked it doesn't
[18:31] <jtaylor> thats because it isn't, kyto is not linked against lzma
[18:31] <scientes> jtaylor, but it IS
[18:31] <jtaylor> oh
[18:31] <scientes> i copied to a a armel host and checked with ldd
[18:32] <infinity> scientes: Does the exact same command line also work on armel?
[18:32] <jtaylor> I misunderstood you before then
[18:32] <scientes> infinity, good question
[18:32] <jtaylor> ldd -r shows no undefined references?
[18:33] <scientes> http://paste.debian.net/179516/
[18:34] <scientes> infinity, yes it does work on arm, and creates the kcutiltest binary, which works
[18:36] <infinity> Curious.
[18:36] <infinity> I'm inclined to blame the crosss toolchain, but not entirely sure what to blame it for doing off the top of my head.
[18:36] <scientes> with g++-4.7 too
[18:37] <scientes> i had this problem with the emdebian squeeze g++-4.4
[18:37] <scientes> then compiled it according to instructions here: http://gsoc.sitedethib.com/posts/apt-get_install_gcc-4.7-arm-linux-gnueabihf/
[18:37] <scientes> and had the exact same problem
[18:37] <infinity> At least it's consistent. ;)
[18:37] <scientes> and i subbed armel and eabi, for armhf stuff
[18:38] <infinity> Is this a source package I can test?  I suppose I could just do a minimal testcase, but that sounds like effort.
[18:40] <scientes> if you do DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nocheck the kyotocabinet from unstable/quntal will work
[18:40] <scientes> but it doesn't even get that far, so it doesn't really matter
[18:40] <jtaylor> have you tried without as-needed?
[18:49] <scientes> Steve Langasek on #multiarch on OFTC says its a known bug with ld
[18:49] <infinity> Mmkay.
[18:50] <slangasek> https://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/DevPlatform/CrossCompile/UsingMultiArch, search on "DEB_LDFLAGS_APPEND"
[18:50] <slangasek> in particular, -Wl,-rpath-link=/usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabi:/lib/arm-linux-gnueabi:/usr/lib is used to work around this wrong default in the cross-binutils package
[18:51] <infinity> This seems easily fixable in the cross toolchain...
[18:51] <slangasek> nothing ever seems easily fixable in the cross toolchain, AFAICT :)
[19:28] <smoser> SpamapS, around?
[19:29] <smoser>  /etc/init/cloud-init-local.conf is: start on mounted MOUNTPOINT=/
[19:29] <smoser> is that guaranteed to have /run or /dev/shm? access?
[19:29] <SpamapS> no
[19:30] <SpamapS> smoser: virtual-filesystems would guarantee that, I think.
[19:30] <SpamapS> but does not block
[19:30] <smoser> virtual-filesystems definitely would guarantee that.
[19:30] <SpamapS> I haven't looked in a while when MOUNTPOINT=/ is emitted
[19:31] <smoser> i think its not guaranteed.
[20:10] <ScottK> Would someone who understands something about Java look at Bug 937710?  It appears that the SRU we just copied to -updates might not have fully resolved the bug.
[21:26] <dylan-m> Thanks for the detailed code review, barry! I'll be able to jump into that later this week, I hope :) Mpt filed a bug report about the height of the updates list earlier today: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1025674
[21:26] <dylan-m> Fixing it should be pretty painless. Just needs different defaults in dconf to start with. (Though some fancier design-related updates might lead to good places, too).
[21:28] <barry> dylan-m: sure thing!  thanks very much for the branch.  since there's a separate bug on the details height, don't feel obligated to fix that in your branch.  i.e. it could be fixed in a separate branch, but if the fix is easy and you want to include it in your updated branch, feel free to do so!  please do link your branch to that bug if you do though.
[21:28] <barry> dylan-m: and feel free to ping me if you have any questions or just disagree with me. :)
[22:50] <YokoZar> Is there a way to get the slightly older firefox 13 source packages off launchpad anywhere?  I want to put them in a PPA
[22:51] <scientes> YokoZar, debian has esr releases in wheezy, you could just rebuild those
[22:51] <scientes> which is firefox 10
[22:51] <scientes> otherwise you shouldn't run older versions of firefox, except for regression testing
[22:52] <scientes> *bisecting
[22:52] <YokoZar> scientes: right, that's what I want to do
[22:52] <micahg> YokoZar: why ,that's not recommended
[22:52] <scientes> YokoZar, just use mozregressions
[22:52] <scientes> its super awesome and downloads the daily builds from ftp.mozilla.org
[22:52] <YokoZar> micahg: I have an environment where we have to do a good chunk of manual work to support each new firefox release
[22:52] <scientes> and they have them back for years
[22:53] <micahg> YokoZar: you want the ESR then
[22:53] <YokoZar> micahg: the proper solution to this is to grab packages from our own repository and update it when firefox updates
[22:53] <scientes> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^+1 for esr
[22:53] <cjwatson> YokoZar: aside from whether it's a good idea or not, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<source package name>/+publishinghistory for any source package has everything
[22:53] <scientes> YokoZar, precise runs firefox esr
[22:53] <YokoZar> cjwatson: ahh yes I was hoping for that :)
[22:53] <scientes> AFAIK
[22:53] <micahg> scientes: hrm? we just pushed out 14
[22:53] <scientes> oh yah
[22:53] <scientes> whoops
[22:53] <cjwatson> though it might time out for a big package like firefox.  you can use https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<source package name>/<source package version> directly
[22:53] <scientes> micahg, you should also package esr
[22:54] <cjwatson> well s/big/old/ I guess
[22:54] <scientes> oh wow, you push out ff14 to even lucid
[22:54] <micahg> YokoZar: as long as you're updating your own packaging to the latest release, or staying on the ESR, you're fine, otherwise, you're open to security issues (and even the ESR might have some, but hopefully not critical ones)
[22:55] <micahg> scientes: have you read http://www.chriscoulson.me.uk/blog/?p=111
[22:56] <scientes> micahg, so that is the real reaon you do not build libxul as a shared library anymore?
[22:56] <YokoZar> micahg: Yes, I know, keeping up to date is a good thing :D  But the immediate impact is it will break some very custom-specific scripts here until I can forward-port the changes
[22:56] <scientes> YokoZar, that is why you should run esr
[22:56] <micahg> YokoZar: we have builds available in PPAs for you to adjust your stuff in advance
[22:56] <scientes> micahg, i run ff nightly ;), if you put a sym link to it from ~/bin/firefox then even the .desktop files work
[22:58] <YokoZar> scientes: I will migrate at the next ESR, at the moment I need some 12+ specific features
[22:59] <micahg> YokoZar: 12 weeks notice here: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/firefox-aurora, 6 here https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/firefox-next/+packages if you grab the build after the migration (which happens shortly after release)
[23:00] <StevenK> RAOF: 'ubuntu-bug nvidia' no worky
[23:01] <YokoZar> Noted micahg :)
[23:05] <RAOF> StevenK: That's because there's no “nvidia” package; “ubuntu-bug nvidia-current” works, right?
[23:06] <StevenK> RAOF: Right, that does.
[23:11] <StevenK> RAOF: I've restarted X and removed the module, so I'm not sure filing a bug now is the right thing to do. :-)
[23:11] <RAOF> Heh.


[00:09] <sayd> any sneak preview pics?
[00:10] <IdleOne> probably not till the countdown is up
[13:02] <ubuntubhoy> with under 3 hours on the clock, I thought it might have been busier in here
[13:03] <smartboyhw> lol
[13:04] <ubuntubhoy> need to get in early to get the best seats
[13:04] <smartboyhw> ubuntubhoy, there aren't any *seats*
[13:04] <ubuntubhoy> In my imagination there are
[13:04] <ubuntubhoy> big comfy ones down at the front
[15:09] <GuidoPallemans> less than one hour to go...
[15:09] <mcmullins> are they going to have a google hangout, or anything like that again?
[15:24] <nOStahl> its going to be a 20 dollar tablet with dual core and 2 gigs of ram with ubuntu on it
[15:25] <IdleOne> heh, wishful thinking?
[15:26] <nOStahl> with HTC subsidizing
[15:26] <smartboyhw> LOL
[15:27] <mainerror> This list seems to be outdated, eh? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/TabletList
[15:28] <wdnz> gah. I can't wait another 30 minutes to find out.
[15:29] <IdleOne> you waited 23.5 hrs, you're going to give up now when you can see the finish line?
[15:30] <mcmullins> Don't worry, once you find out, you'll have to wait another year before you can buy it :P
[15:30] <nOStahl> leave him IdleOne he's down and out!
[15:31]  * genii-around makes a pot of coffee and hands out the mugs
[15:31] <wdnz> cheers
[15:31]  * mcmullins cheers
[15:31] <nOStahl> speaking of that… I better go make myself an Americano before I get a headache from lack of caffeine
[15:34] <mainerror> Tick, tock. :D
[15:35] <mainerror> Soon.
[15:39] <genii-around> I imagine it will have Ubuntu for Mobile
[15:43] <nOStahl> uTouch :P
[15:44] <mcmullins> genii-around, I hope it has the mobile version
[15:44] <DJones> When I left home this morning, HTC.com and Ubuntu.com's countdown timers where matching, now htc's is 3 minutes faster, I guess they're going for an early unveiling
[15:44] <mcmullins> I'd rather have a complete rethink of the unity interface, than have 3 different Unities that we have to try to smash together
[15:47] <genii-around> I figure it will be a 10" version of the Flyer, with probably a quad core
[15:48] <nOStahl> the timers match up perfectly DJones
[15:48] <IdleOne> depends who's looking at the clock
[15:49] <DJones> nOStahl: I see a 3 minute difference
[15:49] <nOStahl> what part of the world
[15:49] <IdleOne> 1 minute diff here
[15:50] <wdnz> 0.2 milisecond diff here.
[15:50] <genii-around> From here the timers sync up, HTC 1 minute fast
[15:50] <nOStahl> are they going to announce anything in here too?
[15:52] <IdleOne> probably/maybe
[15:54] <guest1__> what i thought the htc timer was for the htc one ...
[15:54] <AlanBell> HTC have done their bit already, nothing to do with us
[15:54]  * vibhav bites nails
[15:54] <nOStahl> 5 min!
[15:54] <vibhav> Time is going slow.
[15:55] <vibhav> Very slow.
[15:57] <nOStahl> and everyone's quiet now lol starting to stare at their screens
[15:57] <blow> 2 min
[15:59] <nOStahl> !! it ended and said just kidding!
[15:59] <blow> does anyone want to talk about mickey mouse while we wait?
[15:59] <blow> 30 seconds
[15:59] <blow> 20
[15:59] <blow> 15
[15:59] <blow> 10
[15:59] <wdnz> 10
[15:59] <blow> 5
[15:59] <blow> 4
[15:59] <blow> 3
[16:00] <blow> 2
[16:00] <blow> 7
[16:00] <blow> 1
[16:00] <blow> k=lol
[16:00] <mainerror> nice
[16:00] <wdnz> loadddinnnggg
[16:00] <vibhav> It's spinning
[16:00] <mainerror> Of course the servers are going down.
[16:00] <blow> and then it hangs...
[16:00] <mcmullins> aaaaand server crash
[16:00] <mcmullins> 503
[16:00] <blow> and then it hangs...
[16:00] <blow> and hangs...
[16:00] <vibhav> And it's down
[16:01] <netcurli> impossible.. ubuntu server doesn't crash :P
[16:01] <vibhav> Wait, it's up
[16:01] <genii-around> Hehe
[16:01] <mainerror> netcurli: Ubuntu didn't crash but the webserver. :)
[16:01] <mcmullins> you think they would have expected this from the Phone announcement >_<
[16:01] <blow> should i reload the page?
[16:01] <AlanBell> if you left the timer spinning it would do a refresh after 30 seconds
[16:01] <blow> hmm maybe i should wait...
[16:01] <genii-around> blow: Probably not
[16:01] <wdnz> s..should I refresh?
[16:02] <blow> wdnz i have just done that...
[16:02] <IdleOne> htc.com didn't crash
[16:02] <vibhav> Heh
[16:02] <mcmullins> push F5 as quick as you can
[16:02] <nOStahl> hah i got a 503 error
[16:02] <mcmullins> acutally scratch that
[16:02] <charis> The HTC media event has passed without mention of anything Ubuntu. This rumour is therefore squashed.
[16:02] <mcmullins> loop a curl
[16:02] <vibhav> Indeed
[16:02] <netcurli> http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/19/4004336/ubuntu-touch-developer-preview-download-nexus-tablets
[16:02] <genii-around> The servers are probably being hammered already, refreshing it just will make it worse
[16:03] <mosimo> http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/tablet
[16:04] <mosimo> working, but slow
[16:04] <vibhav> 503 :(
[16:04] <mosimo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h384z7Ph0gU&hd=1
[16:04] <mosimo> that just hityoutube too
[16:04] <nOStahl> I got video of it crashing to 503 error heh
[16:05] <blow> www.ubuntu.com/devices/tablets
[16:05] <blow> no s
[16:05] <blow> www.ubuntu.com/devices/tablet
[16:06] <nOStahl> lol i don't think ubuntu has experienced this much traffic before lol
[16:06] <blow> haha
[16:06] <mosimo> and this isnt even the release for it
[16:06] <blow> nOStahl well, its the biggest channel here at freenode
[16:06] <mosimo> just the announcement
[16:06] <IdleOne> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h384z7Ph0gU&hd=1
[16:06] <mosimo> Find out when it’s here
[16:06] <mosimo> If you’re not in the mobile industry, but you’re as excited as we are about Ubuntu on tablets, we can alert you by email when the first device is released.
[16:07] <ptl> hi
[16:07] <ptl> will the new tablet interface be available to the nexus 7?
[16:07] <mosimo> probably yea
[16:08] <k1l> is there something like the code released? or is it just an announcment? (like for the -phone)
[16:08] <waspinator> lol video looks like apple ad
[16:08] <mosimo> just annoucement
[16:08] <mosimo> phone source is in 2 days
[16:08] <mosimo> probably tablet later on
[16:09] <mainerror> You know, that's quite impressive.
[16:11] <genii-around> Meh. That was... anti-climactic
[16:11] <IdleOne> isn't it always
[16:11] <vibhav> Okay
[16:12] <waspinator> side stage? looks like windows snap
[16:12] <ptl> phone source is in 2 days -> just ordered a nexus 4 :D
[16:12] <ptl> just for that
[16:12] <vibhav> This is gorgeous
[16:15] <AlanBell> so is this a good excuse to get a nexus 10?
[16:15] <nOStahl> did you guys see that at end of video! the phone dock into a laptop shell
[16:15] <nOStahl> err a tablet shell
[16:16] <nOStahl> !!!
[16:16] <nOStahl> just want i've been wanting
[16:16] <waspinator> that's just a possibility. nexus 4/10 doesn't do that
[16:16] <mosimo> asus padfone thingy does though
[16:16] <Kroach> what the hell was a Windows window doing on Ubuntu in the end part of the tablet video?
[16:16] <mosimo> thin client
[16:17] <not_technical> glad i just got a nexus 7.  will definitely try this out, before getting attached to android... :)
[16:18] <mosimo> well you're going to be waiting a bit for the tablet version
[16:18] <AlanBell> is it me, or are all the pictures and videos showing the tablet in landscape orientation?
[16:18] <waspinator> thin client isn't ready yet for regular users is it?
[16:18] <AlanBell> and all the phone stuff in portrait?
[16:19] <AlanBell> waspinator: thin client is fine if you like that sort of thing
[16:19] <AlanBell> rdp is mostly a solved problem
[16:19] <mosimo> http://www.ubuntu.com/static/u/img/devices/tablet-home-portrait.jpg
[16:19] <mosimo> portrait tablet :P
[16:19] <AlanBell> thanks mosimo
[16:19] <waspinator> but I mean there is no GUI to say do: "connect to my windows computer and integrate all its apps into ubuntu"
[16:19] <flintser> ubuntu tablet and phone, musthave(tm)
[16:20] <AlanBell> also a portrait welcome screen on the ubuntu.com homepage
[16:20] <waspinator> you still need a sysadmin to do it for you right?
[16:20] <AlanBell> waspinator: if your windows computer is running the rdp server stuff then you can use remmina to view them
[16:21] <waspinator> ya but that looks ugly. I mean having word in the unity launcher
[16:21] <AlanBell> I think you need special stuff on the windows side to do individual application remoting
[16:21] <waspinator> make it seamless
[16:21] <waspinator> so it's not ready for end users yet... too bad
[16:21] <AlanBell> yeah, windows is not ready for end users
[16:22] <AlanBell> ;)
[16:22] <nOStahl> with all this, theres going to be a hipster movement away from apple to using ubuntu I fear :P
[16:22] <AlanBell> they will get there one day perhaps
[16:22] <mainerror> I think there's something I don't understand about YouTube. That video was viewed 301 times but it got 565 thumbs-up and 5 thumbs-down. How's that even possible? :D
[16:23] <AlanBell> mainerror: youtube bug, all videos stop at 301 for ages
[16:23] <waspinator> lol. well windows runs word pretty well. ideally I would swtich all my pcs to ubuntu and just have a windows 'server' running somewhere hosting the apps I still need.
[16:23] <mainerror> AlanBell: for real?
[16:23] <auc> youtube caches some of that data :) it will be updated eventually
[16:23] <AlanBell> mainerror: http://www.seroundtable.com/youtube-301-views-15347.html
[16:23] <rewarp> mainerror: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIkhgagvrjI
[16:23] <mainerror> wow, I'm slow on those things ._.
[16:24] <rewarp> I only know because I follow the numberphile channel on YouTube.
[16:24] <mosimo> its not a bug. its intentional
[16:24] <waspinator> I think it's kinda false advertising to show word running so seamlessly on the tablet though. since it's such a promoted feature they should get that to work asap
[16:24] <mosimo> they do it and manually check videos to make sure the views are legit
[16:24] <mosimo> when they are the counter continues
[16:24] <mosimo> when approved rather*
[16:25] <AlanBell> waspinator: it will work fine like that, the tablet side shouldn't have a problem with it, you just have to run citrix terminal server on the windows side
[16:25] <mosimo> run xenapp to have application only instead of fulldesktop like in the video too
[16:25] <mosimo> or similar
[16:26] <waspinator> at prohibitive costs I'm sue
[16:26] <AlanBell> waspinator: sure, but it will be standard when Windows is ready for end users
[16:27] <waspinator> right ok. I'm not sure windows is going to be eager to put itself out of business
[16:27] <mosimo> microsoft aren't the ones doing the only programs to allow you to do it
[16:28] <mosimo> citrix, vmware
[16:28] <waspinator> ya but that's the only way it'll become standard
[16:28] <flintser> AlanBell: citrix costs, i bet noone wants to run paid software to get word on ubuntu :)
[16:28] <nOStahl> why do you need word btw
[16:28] <waspinator> word is just an example
[16:29] <nOStahl> I have several offices all setup with libreoffice and they get along just fine
[16:29] <waspinator> mine would kill me
[16:29] <AlanBell> I have no idea why you would want to do it either
[16:29] <waspinator> mark thinks its a good idea
[16:29] <AlanBell> in the demo Excel does not appear in the launcher
[16:29] <mosimo> i'd like it
[16:29] <mosimo> protip: video isnt a live demo
[16:30] <AlanBell> yeah, I know
[16:31] <mosimo> i've got many windows apps that i'd like to be running on it
[16:31] <mosimo> so running it thin client style would be nice for me
[16:31] <mosimo> im the sole it guy at my work and always carrying round my nexus 7 with my
[16:32] <AlanBell> I like the side shelf thing
[16:32] <ubuntubhoy> I think it looks fantastic
[16:32] <mosimo> have been considering getting a microsoft surface pro
[16:32]  * AlanBell ponders buying a nexus 10
[16:32] <waspinator> looks like a copy of windows snap
[16:32] <ubuntubhoy> I also want it on my netbook over a desktop install if thats possible
[16:32] <z2s8> Where can we download it please?
[16:32] <mosimo> cant yet
[16:32] <AlanBell> z2s8: thursday
[16:32] <z2s8> Thx
[16:33] <mosimo> that's phone source
[16:34] <netcurli> according to theverge, the Touch Developer Preview will also include the tablet interface
[16:34] <AlanBell> I would be inclined to believe that as it is an embargoed article and not a rushed one after the announcement
[16:35] <waspinator> magic edges are similar to windows too
[16:36] <waspinator> I wonder what service they'll use for voice recognition
[16:37] <waspinator> anyone think that QML will be what ubuntu desktop is built on soon?
[16:39] <mosimo> ill still run xfce on my laptop
[16:39] <qengho> Good to know!
[16:41] <AlanBell> waspinator: I would think that is very probable
[16:41] <mosimo> it wouldnt suprise me if they did
[16:41] <waspinator> is that what gives the fluidity? I'd love my desktop to be that fluid
[16:42] <mosimo> would need a lot of tweaking to adapt it for desktop with proper multitasking
[16:44] <M4rtinK> so no hardware ? :)
[16:44] <waspinator> nexus 4/7/10 for now
[16:44] <M4rtinK> let me paraphrase an internet meme: "HW or it didn't happen" :)
[16:45] <M4rtinK> there are quite a lot of more or less working tablet UIs (Nemo, Cordia, Plasma Active, Ubuntu Tablet, ...)
[16:46] <M4rtinK> but no device you can order online with one of those installed
[16:46] <waspinator> same could be said for pretty much anything linux
[16:46] <waspinator> besides android
[16:47] <M4rtinK> well, it is much easier to install a Linux distro on a PC
[16:48] <M4rtinK> quite a bit harder on embedded devices with the lack of standardization & many binary blobs
[16:48] <waspinator> maybe that's the problem. make linux easy to install on phones and tablets
[16:48] <M4rtinK> yep, that's also a solution
[16:49] <M4rtinK> but the announcement seems to be (again!) targeted on manufacturers
[16:50] <M4rtinK> or are there already some images one can install on some COTS tablet ?
[16:51] <waspinator> images will come out for the nexus line on the 21st
[16:51] <AlanBell> it was a countdown to a press release, the real stuff is on the 21st
[16:52] <M4rtinK> waspinator: did they confirm they will also release tablet images ?
[16:53] <M4rtinK> well, probably yes :)
[16:53] <M4rtinK> it doesn't seem to be that different
[16:54] <waspinator> not sure, but OMG says so
[16:55] <M4rtinK> I really hope they don't make some fundamental OS-level design mistake
[16:56] <Abhijit> hello
[16:56] <Abhijit> congrats to canonical team and ubuntu team for such nice work.
[16:56] <Abhijit> :-)
[16:56] <Abhijit> looking forward to hear product launch.
[16:56] <M4rtinK> which unfortunately happens quite often for mobile OSes
[16:57] <Abhijit> i am talking about ubuntu\
[16:57] <Abhijit> not all mobile ossssss
[16:59] <M4rtinK> I was reffering to: 17:55 <M4rtinK> I really hope they don't make some fundamental OS-level design mistake
[17:00] <Abhijit> ok
[17:04] <humanbeing> So why did they design the desktop-Unity like a touch-interface?
[17:07] <waspinator> desktop unity is probably just a stopgap before they move everything to qml
[17:08] <AlanBell> wonder what the side shelf looks like in portrait mode
[17:08] <Abhijit> is ubuntu sdk available for other linux distro?
[17:08] <ubuntubhoy> AlanBell: probably crap - also does it switch to portrait ?
[17:09] <waspinator> maybe it moves to the bottom and makes the phone bit landscape
[17:09] <AlanBell> dunno, there are some shots of it portrait
[17:10] <AlanBell> as far as I am aware nobody has seen the phone change orientation, it is all portrait
[17:10] <humanbeing> waspinator: this would be cool. You could easily develope one programm for all platforms
[17:11] <humanbeing> *devices
[17:12] <waspinator> I think that's their plan
[17:26]  * wdnz is away (leaving)
[17:34] <mcmullins> So.. anyone else surprised by mono-develop?
[17:34] <mosimo> what about it?
[17:35] <mcmullins> It's interesting that Ubuntu is attempting to support native windows code
[17:35] <mosimo> what's monodevelop got to do with ubuntu?
[17:35] <waspinator> wait is mono-develop part of the SDK?
[17:35] <mcmullins> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/monodevelop/
[17:36] <mosimo> oh
[17:36] <mosimo> nothing wrong with that
[17:36] <mosimo> its just another language
[17:36] <waspinator> oh I thought they were building their own VS/xcode using mono-develop
[17:36] <mcmullins> 2 languages
[17:37] <waspinator> they really should build their own IDE
[17:38] <mcmullins> Seems like they're relying a lot on QtCreator
[17:38] <waspinator> ya maybe they should tweak it and rebrand it as ubuntu development studio or something
[17:39] <waspinator> like so many companies do with eclipse
[17:46] <nOStahl> wish eclipse had git-flow plugin
[17:47] <nOStahl> i use Aptana Studio 3 (web development tweaked version of eclipse)
[17:48] <PTAlisPT__> Hello! Could someone tell me what exacty is needed to run ubuntu on a tablet?
[17:49] <waspinator> a nexus 7/10
[17:49] <PTAlisPT__> I mean, not an Asus one
[17:49] <PTAlisPT__> Yeah, but those are not that cheap
[17:49] <PTAlisPT__> And their hardware could be better
[17:49] <waspinator> they have a pretty good price-perfomance ratio
[17:49] <PTAlisPT__> I've seen some quad core tablets with 2 gb of ram for 200eur
[17:50] <PTAlisPT__> And that is what really makes the thing interesting
[17:50] <waspinator> wait for the nexus 7v2 in may
[17:50] <Tm_T> PTAlisPT__: like which one?
[17:50] <waspinator> should be that price range
[17:50] <PTAlisPT__> Like these Onda v972 Quad Ramos w30 Quad Nova 10 Quad FreeLander PD80 Vogue Quad ICOO ICOU10GT Quad PiPO MAX M9 Quad
[17:50] <PTAlisPT__> The Quad part is not needed
[17:50] <PTAlisPT__> That was a list I made
[17:51] <PTAlisPT__> I think the PiPo has great quality
[17:51] <PTAlisPT__> But it is only on presale
[17:51] <PTAlisPT__> The ramos is very high quality too
[17:52] <PTAlisPT__> Some of them look suspicious, I mean, they may bee a piece of chineese crap
[17:52] <waspinator> nexus 7 is only $200USD
[17:52] <PTAlisPT__> But some are really damn good!
[17:52] <waspinator> thats less than 200E
[17:52] <PTAlisPT__> But it is only 7"
[17:52] <PTAlisPT__> I would like to have a 10"
[17:53] <PTAlisPT__> And 2gb of ram our more, quad core processor and Gpu 2d/3d acceleration
[17:53] <waspinator> probably going to have to wait for a while longer
[17:53] <PTAlisPT__> (For the mali-400 MP4 or the powervr sg)
[17:53] <PTAlisPT__> :-(
[17:53] <PTAlisPT__> *sgx
[17:53] <PTAlisPT__> sgx 540 I think
[17:53] <waspinator> or save up for the nexus10
[17:53] <PTAlisPT__> That's really sad
[17:53] <PTAlisPT__> Yeah
[17:54] <PTAlisPT__> Does the nexus 7 have 3d acceleration»?
[17:54] <waspinator> yes. nvidia tegra
[17:54] <PTAlisPT__> Oh, good
[17:54] <PTAlisPT__> When running ubuntu, of course
[17:54] <waspinator> yes
[17:54] <PTAlisPT__> But it's still 7"...
[17:55] <PTAlisPT__> I think the ubuntu is really good and gives support to a LOT of things...
[17:55] <PTAlisPT__> If this would be one of those things...
[19:06] <blitz> is there a faq
[19:07] <Paddy_NI> Is Ubuntu For Phone/Tablet in any way the "Linux for Tablets" that I have been waiting for...
[19:08] <Paddy_NI> Can I fire up a terminal and apt-get install whatever
[19:10] <Paddy_NI> I have also been wondering where the "Ubuntu Image for Nexus 7" fits in with all this?
[19:13] <AlanBell> blitz: there are frequently asked questions, but no frequently answered ones yet, probably a bit more info on thursday
[19:13] <AlanBell> Paddy_NI: I guess if it flips from phone to tablet to pc then yes, stuff will be apt-gettable
[19:14] <AlanBell> the side shelf stuff running phone code is probably what they need a different display server for
[19:14] <Paddy_NI> awesome.. I want this stuff so badly
[20:00] <jelatta> if Ubuntu Touch uses android device drivers, will it be fairly simple to port to other tablets, I own a Transformer Pad TF300
[20:02] <NullVoxPopuli> so excited for ubuntu on tablets :-)
[20:02] <Paddy_NI> :-D
[20:02] <NullVoxPopuli> I'm gonna get the next version of the nexus 10 when it comes out in like... forever from now
[20:02] <NullVoxPopuli> >_<
[20:02] <bkc_> jelatta: TF300 already runs ubuntu desktop iirc
[20:03] <jelatta> ubuntu desktop yes, I want to get my hands on ubuntu for tablets :)
[20:03] <Paddy_NI> Is Ubuntu For Tablets both ARM and Intel x86_64?
[20:03] <bkc_> yes
[20:04] <Paddy_NI> Cool
[20:04] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I see the place is booming :)
[20:04] <Akiva-Thinkpad> is an image ready for download yet?
[20:04] <bkc_> nope
[20:04] <AlanBell> no, thursday maybe
[20:04] <Paddy_NI> Thursday
[20:04] <bkc_> release is 25-28th
[20:04] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I want to throw this on my thinkpad convertable tablet.
[20:04] <Akiva-Thinkpad> if you say its x86 ready :P
[20:05] <AlanBell> Mobile World Congress is 25-28th
[20:05] <AlanBell> release of some source is 21st
[20:05] <Paddy_NI> I wonder where the Ubuntu Desktop image for Nexus 7 fits in with all this.. and if the Nexus 7 will have Ubuntu for Tablets
[20:05] <AlanBell> my guess is that it won't be x86 from day 1
[20:06] <AlanBell> huh, they had a conference call about it today
[20:07] <Akiva-Thinkpad> is there a tube of any of this up?
[20:07] <Akiva-Thinkpad> of good ol shuttles promoting the thing?
[20:08] <Paddy_NI> yes
[20:08] <Paddy_NI> Visit ubuntu.com :-)
[20:08] <waspinator> any idea if ubuntu will support stylus ala galaxy note or windows?
[20:09] <Paddy_NI> waspinator: I don't see why it would not really
[20:09] <waspinator> i hope so
[20:09] <waspinator> right now my x86 tablet pc has horrible pen support in ubuntu 12.10
[20:10] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Paddy_NI: It does not to the extent it does not have a image program that works with pressure points
[20:10] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I am not even sure if Gimp has that capability.
[20:10] <Paddy_NI> Akiva-Thinkpad: Well gimp supports pressure points
[20:10] <Paddy_NI> it does
[20:10] <Paddy_NI> as does inkscape
[20:10] <Akiva-Thinkpad> plugin though, I am sure
[20:10] <Paddy_NI> Yes
[20:10] <waspinator> it doesn't even rotate pen input when I rotate my display screen
[20:11] <waspinator> there are very basic bits that aren't supported before apps can be written for it
[20:11] <Akiva-Thinkpad> speaking of which, are images for tablet going to be limited to the 700 mb of a cd?
[20:11] <Paddy_NI> waspinator: Have you tried installing some raw minced beef into the usb ports?
[20:11] <Akiva-Thinkpad> or will they dare make 1-2 gigabyte images?
[20:11] <waspinator> hmm, no. would that help?
[20:12] <Akiva-Thinkpad> waspinator: Oh you have to write a script for tha
[20:12] <Akiva-Thinkpad> that
[20:12] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I saw a video on the thinkpad tablet with ubuntu, same problem
[20:12] <Paddy_NI> waspinator: Well it would not hurt :-)
[20:12] <Paddy_NI> Sorry I have a problem :-(
[20:12] <Akiva-Thinkpad> when you rotate, mouse still stays the same, and gives you mirror touch
[20:12] <waspinator> that's the kind of stuff I would expect my OS to handle
[20:12] <waspinator> without me writing scripts
[20:12] <Akiva-Thinkpad> waspinator: Well, I feel your pain
[20:13] <Akiva-Thinkpad> waspinator: I could say though, you get what you pay for
[20:13] <waspinator> I just use windows when I need the tablet bits of my computer
[20:13] <waspinator> ya I guess you do
[20:13] <waspinator> windows 8 is great for it actually
[20:13]  * Paddy_NI shivers
[20:13] <waspinator> and it only cost me $15 though
[20:13] <Akiva-Thinkpad> waspinator: The script is simple enough; perhaps you and I could work on implimenting this into the distro?
[20:13] <waspinator> so not much more than ubuntu
[20:14] <waspinator> I doubt canonical would include something written by unknowns
[20:15] <Akiva-Thinkpad> waspinator: Rubbish.
[20:15] <bkc_> waspinator: xrandr keeps track of the screen, while xwacom manages the tablet-part, so that's why the mouse isn't rotated when you change the rotation of the screen :)
[20:15] <Akiva-Thinkpad> waspinator: its already written for that matter.
[20:15] <bkc_> Akiva-Thinkpad: and it's in the repo
[20:15] <waspinator> and no one thought it would be a good idea to sync them>
[20:16] <waspinator> at least no one at canonical
[20:16] <Akiva-Thinkpad> waspinator: I think if people come with your attitude; "Why should I do it?" then, its not surprising :P
[20:16] <bkc_> waspinator: no, because that would require them to check each time whether wacom was installed or not. OR slap on even more unnecessary dependencies...
[20:17] <bkc_> and syncing them is easy, the daemon is just an apt-get away :)
[20:17] <bkc_> or SoftwareCenter if you feel like shooting yourself in the foot ;)
[20:17] <waspinator> if its so easy to install, why wouldn't it be an option in additional drivers?
[20:18] <waspinator> or better yet just installed automatically if detected during a system update
[20:18] <waspinator> I'll try it though
[20:18] <waspinator> but it shouldn't require user intervention
[20:19] <Hourd> why not?
[20:19] <bkc_> 1) because the daemon isn't a driver, 2) because not everyone actually changes the orientation of their screens :)
[20:19] <Hourd> its fairly specialist and easy to add
[20:19] <waspinator> whats the daemon's name?
[20:19] <waspinator> all tablets change orientation
[20:20] <waspinator> or at least they should have the option to
[20:20] <bkc_> for the thinkpad tablet there's also a script for automagically change the orientation of both tablet and screen depending on the physical orientation :)'
[20:20] <bkc_> uhm, no?
[20:20] <bkc_> I have a tablet for my desktop... see the problem? :)
[20:21] <waspinator> no ... why would I buy a tablet for my computer?
[20:21] <waspinator> it's already a computer
[20:21] <waspinator> of course I don't want my desktop to switch orientations when I rotate my tablet
[20:21] <Hourd> i also have a tablet for my desktop... which i never change screen orientation
[20:22] <waspinator> I'm not talking about graphics tablets btw
[20:22] <bkc_> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Wacom_Bamboo_Capture_tablet_and_pen.jpg <-- tablet...
[20:22] <bkc_> no, but it's the same concept...
[20:22] <bkc_> it's actually the same thing...
[20:22] <waspinator> uh no. when you say tablet, especially in ubuntu-tablet you aren't talking about graphics tablet periperals
[20:23] <waspinator> the ones I'm talking about have a screen and a computer attached behind it
[20:23] <waspinator> surely ubuntu can see the difference
[20:23] <waspinator> I know windows can
[20:23] <bkc_> no and no
[20:24] <waspinator> that's unfortunate
[20:24] <bkc_> the input-device and driver is the same for external drawing-tablets and mobile tablets
[20:24] <bkc_> for both windows and linux
[20:24] <waspinator> I guess I'm stuck with windows then
[20:24] <waspinator> right, but windows doesn't rotate my screen when I rotate a graphics tablet.
[20:24] <waspinator> it does when I rotate a graphics tablet screen combo
[20:25] <bkc_> no, that's because the graphics tablet doesn't have a gyroscope/accelerometer built in...
[20:25] <waspinator> oh ok, so adding this functaionlity in wouldn't do any harm to your use case then
[20:26] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Wow, mark, way to knock my socks off
[20:26] <Akiva-Thinkpad> All I care though, as beautiful as that phone and tablet and everything else is, is I want my terminal
[20:26] <bkc_> no, but unnecessary in about 99% of the cases, BUT for ubuntu-tablet I'm sure this functionality will exist...
[20:26] <Akiva-Thinkpad> just so it still feels like linux :)
[20:26] <Hourd> Akiva-Thinkpad: same
[20:26] <waspinator> that's all I ask
[20:27] <bkc_> waspinator: but you where talking about regular ubuntu (as it is now, since the tablet version isn't released) so that's the answer you got :)
[20:28] <Akiva-Thinkpad> waspinator: Solution - Apply script, and call yourself a hacker.
[20:28] <Akiva-Thinkpad> ubuntu tablets to run on ipads?
[20:28] <Akiva-Thinkpad> or is this gonna be a hacking project?
[20:29] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I don't know if ipad images are flashed to roms or not so...
[20:29] <bkc_> google iDroid to see if the bootloader is even available for iPad :)
[20:29] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Pah, droid
[20:30] <bkc_> iPad images works just like iPhone images, so they are flashed to the internal disk
[20:30] <Akiva-Thinkpad> "Lets run a java machine on it!"
[20:30] <Akiva-Thinkpad> interesting
[20:31] <bkc_> well, the bootloader is the same, and since "regular" linux wasn't really an option for phones up until now, Android was the "best choise"
[20:42] <Walther> Hm. Is the device going to be released through OEMs or will there be a public image / sources available for e.g. Nexus 7?
[20:43] <no_gravity> Good Evening! Will ubuntu for tablets provide root access by default?
[20:44] <Akiva-Thinkpad> no_gravity: No, they are getting rid of the terminal
[20:44] <no_gravity> Akiva-Thinkpad: how do you know?
[20:44] <bkc_> lol, there's no info on that :P
[20:44] <Akiva-Thinkpad> no_gravity: I'm just trying to shock you :P
[20:45] <no_gravity> root access would be the only differentiating factor for me.
[20:45] <Akiva-Thinkpad> no_gravity: you mean root accout, or sudo capabilities??
[20:45] <Akiva-Thinkpad> because root account... how long ago with that? 6.04?
[20:45] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I don't think they had it even then :P
[20:46] <bkc_> ...
[20:46] <no_gravity> Akiva-Thinkpad: thats why i said root access
[20:46] <bkc_> root still exists...
[20:47] <Akiva-Thinkpad> no_gravity: does ubuntu-tv have it? I would assume it does.
[20:48] <no_gravity> for example, i hate it that i cannot edit /etc/hosts on my iOS devices.
[20:48] <no_gravity> didnt try on my android devices but would guess its unavailable as well.
[20:49] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Anyways, its good my project is still in planning stages. Looks like an ubuntu-tablet version will need to be made :P
[20:49] <Akiva-Thinkpad> no_gravity: Yah I hate that too. If that happened here at least, the community would find a hack, and no one would bite your head off for being disloyal to the logo.
[20:50] <Walther> But yeah, any info on possible images / sources?
[20:50] <Walther> I want to get this thing on my Nexus 7 *now*
[20:50] <Walther> or if not now, as soon as possible
[20:53] <nOStahl> gotta wait like everyone else Walther lol
[20:53] <Walther> of course. But like I asked earlier, the main question is: will it be OEM only, or will the sources and/or images become available
[20:54] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I swear the apple developers were inspired by Rousseau, "Sire, the apple users are complaining that their 1 year old machines are not compatible with the new software." "Let them eat cake~"
[20:54] <nOStahl> its open source
[20:54] <Walther> as in, neither the phone nor the tv project images / sources have been released
[20:54] <Walther> Akiva-Thinkpad: :D
[20:56] <nOStahl> the ubuntu tv will be fun
[20:57] <waspinator> announced almost a year ago
[20:58] <waspinator> I hope phone/tablet don't take so long to come to market
[20:59] <nOStahl> someone said they heard there would be no ubuntu carriers till october
[21:00] <Walther> but yeah, taking the TV as an example, the project was released/annoucned a year ago or so, still no images / no sources
[21:00] <Walther> i seriously hope the same won't happen with phone and tablet
[21:01] <nOStahl> just setup a factory to produce devices and become an ubuntu distributor partner :P
[21:01] <nOStahl> then you get the imagees
[21:16] <colonelqubit> The Ubuntu tablet announcement mentions support for Skype. Will there be support for Jabber/Jingle and WebRTC video chat as well?
[21:16]  * AlanBell wants support for AIX and SIP
[21:16] <IdleOne> We can't make money selling you free options!
[21:17] <colonelqubit> Do you think Skype support is netting Ubuntu $$?
[21:17] <IdleOne> no
[21:19] <IdleOne> it is supposed to run a full desktop when docked to a keyboard and mouse. I assume that means it will run whatever is in the repos.
[21:19] <Walther> pfft. Seriously guys, stop trolling / "joke answering"
[21:19] <IdleOne> Walther: We only know as much info as is provided in the links in the topic.
[21:19] <Walther> The thing is too hot at the moment for joke answers or trolling. There are way too many actual questions.
[21:20] <Walther> IdleOne: Yes, but trolling / joke answering will just cause additional chaos and confusion
[21:20] <IdleOne> So, if you read that info you know as much as anybody else knows.
[21:20] <Walther> which isn't helpful
[21:20] <IdleOne> my answer was sarcastic but not completely inaccurate from the direction I see Canonical headed in.
[21:24] <IdleOne> Walther: You do make a good point though and I apologise. I'll try harder from now on not to make jokes or at least be clear when I am joking.
[21:25] <Walther> no problem :P I'm not a dev or anything
[21:25] <IdleOne> neither am I but you reminded me what being Ubuntu is. I had forgot for a moment :)
[21:25]  * colonelqubit was on board for the joke...just wanted to confirm whether canonical was partnering with MS on skype or something
[21:26] <colonelqubit> So to make some guesses: Tablet will probably run whatever's in the repos
[21:27] <bkc_> AlanBell: SIP-support is available in the repos, no idea about integration in tablet-version though
[21:27] <colonelqubit> however, we don't know what will be in the repos, especially for an ARM device.
[21:27] <IdleOne> colonelqubit: No idea but it wouldn't be a bad idea for them to do so to generate funds. Although it would cause a lot of ugliness in the greater FOSS community.
[21:27] <bkc_> IdleOne: Ubuntu is already a black sheep in the FOSS community so no worries there :)
[21:27] <IdleOne> heh
[21:28] <colonelqubit> IdleOne: Canonical doesn't always play nicely with the larger FLOSS community
[21:28] <colonelqubit> (what bkc_ said)
[21:29] <colonelqubit> I'll try to ping an early-reviewer of the device and see if they can confirm suppor
[21:29] <colonelqubit> support
[21:29]  * genii-around sips coffee
[21:29] <bkc_> the fact that they encourages users to install driver-blobs is a major thorn in the FOSS-devs eyes ^.^
[21:29] <colonelqubit> bkc_:  yeah, it sucks, but I'd rather have people using a 95%-open system than none at all
[21:30] <colonelqubit> the rub comes when we get complacent with that 5%
[21:30] <AlanBell> I don't think the firmware blobs are a major point of contention really
[21:30] <colonelqubit> It's a tricky line to walk, especially for the companies in this game
[21:30] <bkc_> yes, I'm all for FOSS, but I still use NV-blobs on my desktop because I need it for work
[21:31] <bkc_> AlanBell: actually it is :/
[21:31] <AlanBell> more the gnome interactions these days
[21:31] <colonelqubit> AlanBell: Especially on mobile devices
[21:32] <AlanBell> other derivatives have shipped flash and codecs by default
[21:32] <bkc_> blobs in general have always been taboo in the FOSS community.
[21:33] <colonelqubit> AlanBell: Hmmm... which derivatives?  I know that debian has some stuff in non-free, but I can't think of a distro that ships with that stuff enabled
[21:34] <AlanBell> doesn't mint do that? maybe they stopped (or maybe I am wrong)
[21:36] <AlanBell> heh, flash, closed java, mp3 encoding, dvd decss playback
[21:36] <colonelqubit> in Mint?
[21:36] <colonelqubit> must not have servers anywhere near the US...
[21:37] <AlanBell> anyhow, that is a bit off topic for this channel
[21:37] <colonelqubit> true
[21:38] <AlanBell> I should think the tablet will have somewhat closed graphics drivers, probably using the android drivers at some level
[21:38] <colonelqubit> but to bring it back on topic, I assume that only OEMs will ship Skype. Default builds will probably not
[21:39] <AlanBell> well I don't know really. The OEM might want to ship skype, but the carrier will not. It sounds like Canonical want to give the carriers a great big hug at the moment.
[21:39] <colonelqubit> That's a dangerous move for canonical
[21:39] <colonelqubit> could cost them a lot in the community
[21:40] <colonelqubit> well, actually both communities: the FOSS community, and any community they want to create around a potential product
[21:40] <AlanBell> a brave and possibly even courageous move
[21:40] <AlanBell> perhaps even foolhardy
[21:40] <user82_> am i correct that ubuntu tablet is not compatible with android apps?
[21:40] <bkc_> skype will be in the repo though (taken from the images canonical has released)
[21:40] <bkc_> so it's only a click away :)
[21:40] <colonelqubit> bkc_: interesting
[21:41] <AlanBell> user82_: you are correct (unless someone does an interesting dalvik hack)
[21:41] <user82_> thanks AlanBell
[21:42] <colonelqubit> what's the status of Android compat layers? I heard some rumble about it a while back
[21:42] <AlanBell> bkc_: I wonder if the carriers will let it point at the repos or whether they will want to control their own repos
[21:42] <AlanBell> colonelqubit: google don't want you to do it
[21:43] <colonelqubit> AlanBell: sure, but I don't think there's much they can do to stop you
[21:43] <bkc_> AlanBell: are you sure there'll even be carrier-controlled versions? :)
[21:43] <colonelqubit> they might be able to talk Canonical out of putting it in the repo, though
[21:43] <bkc_> that's kind of anti-linux :P
[21:43] <colonelqubit> bkc_: all kinds of stuff runs on liux
[21:43] <colonelqubit> linux
[21:44] <bkc_> yeah, sure, but "real" linux :/
[21:44] <colonelqubit> The carriers just see this as a toaster
[21:44] <bkc_> ^.^
[21:44] <bkc_> true that :P
[21:44] <AlanBell> bkc_: dunno, but that seems to be what they are aiming for at the moment, they are telling carriers they can have this and lock it down
[21:44] <colonelqubit> indeed
[21:45] <GuidoPallemans> Has gimp really already been morphed to qml?
[21:45] <colonelqubit> the big question is whether we'll see locked-down ubuntu tablets
[21:47] <colonelqubit> I guess two methods there (1) locked-down UI/repos, (2) locked-down at the hardware level
[21:48] <bkc_> AlanBell: seriously? any source on that one? because that sounds retarded beyond canonical-level :P
[21:48] <bkc_> from a FOSS POV that is :)
[21:48] <AlanBell> http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/19/4005514/ubuntu-phones-2014-might-be-locked-down-by-mobile
[21:51] <bkc_> "We've had fairly substantial conversations... none of [the carriers or OEMs] have expressed a desire to recreate the fragmentation of the Android operating system," <-- from that link :/
[21:55] <GuidoPallemans> Has gimp really already been morphed to qml?
[21:58] <AlanBell> doubt it
[21:59] <AlanBell> seeing as GTK stands for Gimp Tool Kit (or did originally)
[21:59] <bkc_> ...
[21:59] <bkc_> Gnome Image Manipulation Program
[22:00] <AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GTK%2B
[22:00] <bkc_> yes, the almighty wikipedia that has never been wrong ;)
[22:00] <AlanBell> heh, well it certainly isn't wrong in this instance
[22:01] <waspinator> GNU Image Manipulation Program
[22:01] <AlanBell> GIMP stands for GNU Image Manipulation Program
[22:01] <waspinator> you're both wrong
[22:01] <bkc_> o.O
[22:01]  * AlanBell isn't wrong
[22:02] <bkc_> waspinator: right, my bad on that one...
[22:02] <waspinator> oh nvm. read it wrong
[22:02] <bkc_> huh, actually it's right there in the first line on GTK's frontpage o.O
[22:02] <popey> \o/ xkcd 386
[22:03] <bkc_> TIL
[22:03] <bkc_> popey: ;)
[22:23] <AlanBell> http://www.ubuntu.com/2013/02/press-pack-ubuntu-tablet/faq
[22:27] <genii-around> Hm
[22:28] <colonelqubit> "The OS is exactly the same in all cases – Ubuntu running on tablets is the same Ubuntu which runs on the PC, phone and TV"
[22:28] <colonelqubit> ...unclear what that means about app availability
[22:28] <colonelqubit> Of course, it would be hard to make that statement with a straight face and then neuter apt-get
[22:28] <genii-around> If an app is available for a cpu you have in whatvever your device is
[22:29] <genii-around> arm, x86, etc
[22:29] <colonelqubit> right, but AlanBell (and others) have commented that the devices could be locked down
[22:30] <colonelqubit> locked-down repo + ubuntu underpinnings + Unity is not "the same Ubuntu which runs on the PC"
[22:30] <ubuntubhoy> Is the talk not that the OEM's might want the devices locked
[22:30] <ubuntubhoy> rather than Canonical
[22:30] <ubuntubhoy> so it's just guessing right now
[22:31] <colonelqubit> Sure. But Ubuntu has already made this statement in public
[22:31] <colonelqubit> Now we get to see if they keep it or waffle on it...
[22:33] <AlanBell> well worth digging through the press pack information
[22:38]  * genii-around goeas all archeologist
[22:41]  * colonelqubit hands genii-around a fedora and a bullwhip
[22:54] <ubuntubhoy> reading it now AlanBell
[23:01] <bkc_> colonelqubit: but the carriers have said to Canonical that they aren't interested in doing stupid things like that, so the probability that they do it is slim, but it still exists :)
[23:01] <bkc_> on the lock-down note :)
[23:02]  * colonelqubit reading
[23:03] <colonelqubit> hmm... ah, okay. I interpreted the "nobody wants fragmentation" as an argument in FAVOR of lockdown, not against it
[23:03] <colonelqubit> ala Apple
[23:04] <colonelqubit> I think the biggest "tool" that Ubuntu has to prevent incompatibilities is their voice
[23:04] <bkc_> well, fragmentation is more UI and App-availability related than locking it down :)
[23:04] <colonelqubit> kind of
[23:05] <colonelqubit> if a user always has an option to upgrade their ubuntu+oem-stuff to a stock ubuntu build, then they can escape from whatever backwater they're stuck in
[23:05] <colonelqubit> and get to a modern build of Ubuntu
[23:06] <colonelqubit> kind of like going from whatever Android build your phone came with to Cyanogenmod
[23:06] <colonelqubit> (cm isn't "upstream", but it's basically close enough)
[23:07] <colonelqubit> Anyhow, as long as it's easy for the user to select that 'upgrade' path, then I think we'll all be in good shape
[23:08] <colonelqubit> But I don't see OEMs or Carriers agreeing to that
[23:27] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Any idea what the default webbrowser will be?
[23:27] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I have tried firefox mobile; wasn't impressed
[23:27] <Akiva-Thinkpad> opera mobile on the other hand is fantastic.
[23:29] <GuidoPallemans> probably a self-made one, relying on qt-qml's qwebkit viewer
[23:31] <genii-around> I wonder what the user agent would be
[23:49] <bkc_> I'm guessing webkit
[23:52] <bkc_> or perhaps gecko, but webkit is already on ARM so there's less porting/optimization to do (unless gecko is also on ARM, then they're equal)
[23:59] <Akiva-Thinkpad> hmmm


[21:11] <meena> 2024-04-16 21:09:39,991 - util.py[DEBUG]: resize_devices took 0.197 seconds
[21:11] <meena> 2024-04-16 21:09:39,991 - cc_growpart.py[INFO]: '/' resized: changed (zroot/ROOT/default) from<PHONE_NUMBER> to<PHONE_NUMBER>2
[21:11] <meena> 2024-04-16 21:09:39,991 - handlers.py[DEBUG]: finish: init-network/config-growpart: SUCCESS: config-growpart ran successfully
[21:11] <meena> that's a success.
[21:11] <meena> Now to fix the unit tests
[22:00] <meena> well, down to three failures, and then I need to add a zfs test
[22:00] <meena> but, not tonight, too tired.