[06:21] <cob-olp> the last linaro with hardware acceleration was 12.03
[06:22] <cob-olp> do you know how long it may take to have it in new versions?
[12:28] <bilboed> jhodapp, hi
[12:28] <bilboed> jhodapp, I realized you also posted on gst-devel
[12:28] <bilboed> jhodapp, yes, you want to use gstreamer 1.0
[12:28] <bilboed> not only is most of the development concentrated there, but you'll also have serious performance gains on embedded platforms
[12:32] <jhodapp> bilboed: excellent, thanks for that feedback
[12:34] <jhodapp> bilboed: I'd read that, and that's really great to know someone with STB-like experience can speak to that
[12:35] <bilboed> I'll give you a simple example : hw-accelerated decoding/encoding/display works out of the box with pandaboards
[12:35] <bilboed> instead of having to butcher/patch gstreamer to make it work correctly
[12:36] <bilboed> and another pro-tip if you are at the early stages : stay away from (gst-)openmax as much as possible
[12:37] <bilboed> best case scenarios : it'll give you headaches. worst case scenario : you won't be able to have 100% accelerated playback/display
[12:43] <jhodapp> bilboed: ok, good tip
[12:43] <jhodapp> bilboed: so what was added to the 1.0 series that makes you say those things work out of the box?
[12:44] <bilboed> becase it just does :) install gstreamer 1.0, install ducati gst plugins, works
[12:44] <bilboed> where gstreamer 1.0 is from upstream (and not a modified version with patches for that specific platform)
[12:45] <bilboed> it would take some time to explain the full details of the changes
[12:46] <jhodapp> well I just mean a summary
[12:48] <bilboed> this is a wip summary : http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/wiki/ZeroPointEleven/FeaturesArticle
[12:48] <bilboed> and a talk by yours truly : http://video.linux.com/videos/gstreamer-10-no-longer-compromise-flexibility-for-performance
[12:49] <jhodapp> cool, thanks
[12:50] <bilboed> and a slightly older one by wim : http://gstconf.ubicast.tv/videos/keynote-gstreamer10/
[19:21] <bobweaver> tgm4883,  you around ?
[19:21] <bobweaver> wanted to talk to you about a scaper and what not for the tv
[19:21] <bobweaver> get rid of xbmc as 1) it takes too much time and does not scan right
[19:22] <bobweaver> wanted to see if you had made or have friends that might have made something like this with tvdb and moviedb
[19:23] <bobweaver> If not I am just going to write a bash script for it
[19:33] <tgm4883> bobweaver, yea
[19:34] <tgm4883> bobweaver, yea we can do that fairly easily, but the results we'll get are XML
[19:34] <tgm4883> so we need UTV to be able to read that data
[19:34] <tgm4883> likely from a DB
[19:36] <tgm4883> bobweaver, I haven't heard much on the UTV front recently, is there work being done to get metadata out of the crappy .nfo files and into something useful?
[19:36] <tgm4883> eg. UTV/Unity needs to not look for .nfo files
[19:38] <jhodapp> tgm4883: the goal is definitely to get rid of .nfo files and replace it with a proper metadata index system
[19:38] <tgm4883> jhodapp, does UTV/Unity support metadata from other sources?
[19:38] <tgm4883> eg. mysql
[19:39] <jhodapp> tgm4883: not today, no
[19:39] <jhodapp> well UTV
[19:39] <tgm4883> jhodapp, is that something bobweaver can work on?
[19:40] <tgm4883> since he's getting familar with the code
[19:41] <tgm4883> jhodapp, or rather, are the plans for that public? eg. If we know it's going to a mysql database, we can work on the stuff needed to get the data into that DB
[19:41] <jhodapp> It's a bit premature for uTV
[19:41] <jhodapp> for Unity there's nothing stopping that since a scope can use anything as a data source
[19:41] <tgm4883> so really, we need to be looking at the videos scope then?
[19:42] <jhodapp> well what are your goals?
[19:42] <tgm4883> I'm guessing bobweaver's goals were to completely remove the requirement for XBMC
[19:43] <tgm4883> since the need for that is completely metadata based
[19:43] <tgm4883> so he pinged me to see how mythtv did it, which we have python scripts to pull the metadata down using the available API's at those websites
[19:44] <tgm4883> but the data is all XML, so if we already would have to do work to get it into the .nfo file, we might as well just get it into whatever the planned destination is and work on the scope to pull it from the right  place
[19:44] <jhodapp> tgm4883: ah, that part I can speak to...our current goal is to use Grilo for this
[19:45]  * tgm4883 sighs
[19:45] <jhodapp> so if someone wants to create some additional Grilo plugins for certain online metadata sources not already created, that work could prove useful
[19:46] <jhodapp> tgm4883: why are you sighing?
[19:46] <tgm4883> jhodapp, this is the first I am hearing of grilo's use here
[19:46] <jhodapp> and...?
[19:46] <tgm4883> am I not subscribed to the right areas for discussion?
[19:47] <tgm4883> I'm always here and subscribed to the UTV mailing list
[19:47] <jhodapp> tgm4883: it has only been discussed between Saviq and I for now
[19:47] <tgm4883> yea, that was what the sigh was for
[19:47] <jhodapp> so you are on the cutting edge
[19:47] <tgm4883> I don't have an issue with grilo (how can I, I don't know anything about it yet), but there doesn't seem to be much direction/leadership in this project
[19:48] <jhodapp> tgm4883: no need to sigh...you're really not missing much of anything yet
[19:48] <tgm4883> and that makes me sigh :/
[19:48] <jhodapp> tgm4883: I understand your frustration...I share it
[19:48] <tgm4883> I'd ask for an update on the Unity 3D move, but I don't think I'd like the response
[19:48] <jhodapp> the project has some issues to work out before we pull all stops out for implementation...for example...I haven't really begun implementing myself yet
[19:49] <jhodapp> tgm4883: though I don't know many details on the move to Unity 3D, that part has the most traction
[19:49] <tgm4883> jhodapp, AFAIK, there still hasn't really been any information on any of the DVR type stuff
[19:50] <tgm4883> which also makes me sad
[19:50] <jhodapp> tgm4883: yes that part is particularly frustrating
[19:50] <tgm4883> jhodapp, so who do I have to buy a drink to get this info?
[19:50] <tgm4883> I haven't seen willcooke here in a while
[19:51] <jhodapp> he pops in, but he hasn't said much in here...you can ping him any time he's online
[19:51] <tgm4883> is he still the project lead?
[19:51] <jhodapp> he's UTC +1
[19:51] <tgm4883> which is like 10PM right now
[19:51] <tgm4883> maybe I'll just shoot him an email
[19:51] <jhodapp> tgm4883: he is the business manager, Saviq is the technical lead
[19:51] <tgm4883> ah, so I need to buy Saviq a drink then :)
[19:52] <Saviq> wassup?
[19:52] <jhodapp> lol
[19:52] <tgm4883> Apparently I need to buy you a drink
[19:52] <Saviq> yes!
[19:52] <Saviq> I was about to tell you that
[19:53] <Saviq> jhodapp, (psst. why?)
[19:53] <tgm4883> Saviq, so I'm hoping you can give some direction. jhodapp answered a bunch of questions, but there are still some unknowns
[19:53] <tgm4883> Saviq, there doesn't seem to be much information coming out regarding this project
[19:54] <tgm4883> I'm not looking for timelines on things, but there are a bunch of people ready to help in their own areas, but we don't know what to do, because there isn't any specification we're working toward
[19:54] <tgm4883> for instance, regarding things like metadata lookup. We just learned that Grilo is going to be used for that
[19:55] <tgm4883> I haven't looked at that much, but it doesn't appear to have any metadata grabbers for TMDB or TTVDB websites, which we could certainly write if we knew we were using Grilo
[19:56] <tgm4883> We don't know the deal with DVR lens/scope. (we've discussed this before, but no conclusions)
[19:56] <jhodapp> tgm4883: personally I think that's a great idea
[19:57] <Saviq> tgm4883, we will definitely try and communicate as much as possible, as soon as we know it
[19:57] <tgm4883> jhodapp, I'm fine with whatever is chosen to do metadata lookups, provided it's not super terrible. I'm even willing to work on plugins to add support. I just need to know what we're doing there ;)
[19:57] <Saviq> tgm4883, which is now much closer than it was even a week ago
[19:57] <bobweaver> heyguys just got back reading ^^
[19:58] <bobweaver> tgm4883> bobweaver, yea we can do that fairly easily, but the results we'll get are XML  << UBTV uses QML which uses Javascript this would tie in nice
[19:59] <tgm4883> Saviq, A very large issue with the way information is being handled right now, is that it can be interpreted one of two ways. 1) Everything is done super secret and when done will be released to the public (see landscape, launchpad)  2) The project is dead
[19:59] <jhodapp> tgm4883: like I said before, Grilo is the likely choice but not 100% yet...you are on the cutting edge
[19:59] <tgm4883> Saviq, neither of those are good things
 eg. UTV/Unity needs to not look for .nfo files   <<   I have fixed that
[19:59] <tgm4883> bobweaver, you'll want to keep reading, as it seems things keep changing
[19:59] <bobweaver> will do
[20:00] <Saviq> tgm4883, there's also a third option - c) we're still in the process of defining all that
[20:00] <Saviq> yes, I know it's been long, and we feel the same
[20:00] <Saviq> too long
[20:00]  * jhodapp agrees
[20:00] <Saviq> the biggest setback was the decision to switch to Nux
[20:00] <tgm4883> Saviq, which is unfortunate, since we're in the second dev cycle since anouncing the project
[20:00] <jhodapp> tgm4883: how long is a cycle to you?
[20:00] <Saviq> jhodapp, half a year
[20:00] <tgm4883> jhodapp, 6 months
[20:00] <Saviq> jhodapp, remember it's Ubuntu
[20:01] <jhodapp> oh right, that's what you mean
[20:01] <Saviq> tgm4883, truth is we're not thinking in Ubuntu cycles that much, at least not yet
 the biggest setback was the decision to switch to Nux    I dont care about that anymore
[20:02] <bobweaver> I tried to do that for a week
[20:02] <tgm4883> Saviq, thats fine, but everyone else is
[20:02] <bobweaver> the lib is not strong and paints things weired for me
[20:02] <bobweaver> well not as strong as qt
[20:02] <Saviq> bobweaver, that should be better every day now
[20:03] <bobweaver> but untill then I want my tv
[20:03] <Saviq> especially since the decision was made to stick with Nux, much more manpower goes into it, especially regarding stability and documentation
[20:03] <bobweaver> so
[20:03] <bobweaver> I have made new stuff for UBTV all QML
[20:04] <bobweaver> if you look at my branch you will see that there is abour 12 new "pages "
[20:04] <bobweaver> pluged in networkmanager
[20:04] <Saviq> bobweaver, yeah, I saw some of that
[20:04] <Saviq> bobweaver, you need to be aware, though, that you're alone with that
[20:04] <Saviq> bobweaver, unity-2d is basically getting decomissioned
[20:04] <bobweaver> made a TV page that is all for youtube watchseries and project free tv which is all have lens
[20:05] <bobweaver> yeah but untill things are stable ....
[20:05] <Saviq> already the lp:ubuntutv code is incompatible with 12.04, it's only going to get worse
[20:05] <bobweaver> that is a shit ton of work porting all that qml to C++
[20:05] <tgm4883> Saviq, as much as I hate blogging, this project needs a weekly update blog
[20:05] <Saviq> tgm4883, don't they all?
[20:06] <tgm4883> Saviq, this project more than others
[20:06] <bobweaver> plus it is harder and longer work to do the NUX route there is no good IDE ect
[20:06] <jhodapp> tgm4883: would you be willing to help me in that effort?
[20:06] <tgm4883> jhodapp, blogging?
[20:06] <Saviq> bobweaver, don't get me wrong, I co-wrote lp:ubuntutv
[20:06] <jhodapp> tgm4883: yes
[20:06] <Saviq> and the decision was a tough one for me as well
[20:06] <tgm4883> jhodapp, what kinda help do you need?
[20:07] <jhodapp> tgm4883: first of all, helping make sure that it happens weekly would be a great start
[20:07] <bobweaver> I also like the idea of nux too. But to port this much code is going to take 6 months
[20:07] <Saviq> only that I didn't really have a say - we needed to choose a single technology, and the choice was Nux
[20:07] <bobweaver> at least
[20:07] <Saviq> bobweaver, it would've taken that much to take the QML stuff production-ready as well
[20:08] <jhodapp> tgm4883: second, you can even help me write blog entries...I'd be happy to have a quick online meeting with you weekly to give a status report of the project
[20:08] <bobweaver> but at least there is framework that is soild
[20:08] <Saviq> it was a proof of concept, sure it went surprisingly well, still it was a long way away from being ready
[20:08] <bobweaver> ehhh.. not a biggie.
[20:08] <bobweaver> so true ^^
[20:08] <bobweaver> Saviq,  that is ^^
[20:09] <Saviq> bobweaver, tgm4883, guys you can be sure we will be communicating as much as possible, as soon as possible
[20:09] <Saviq> we really want to be as public with all that as possible
[20:09] <jhodapp> indeed
[20:09] <bobweaver> I am sure of that but .. there is alot of work to happen
[20:10] <jhodapp> bobweaver: you're telling me :)
[20:10] <tgm4883> jhodapp, let me ping a blogger buddy of mine
[20:10] <bobweaver> and it is good work but. there is no code ....
[20:10] <jhodapp> bobweaver: design comes before code
[20:10] <bobweaver> there is so much to paint and nothing to paint on :)
[20:11] <Saviq> bobweaver, there will be, real soon, we have been nailing things down these past weeks
[20:11] <bobweaver> there are things that I am seeing with my tv that are going to get in the way v.soon
[20:11] <Saviq> and are really trying to get our hands dirty now
[20:11] <bobweaver> like if other's want scopes that are not in the SimpleLauncher
[20:12] <bobweaver> which will be the launcher when C++ comes into play
[20:12] <bobweaver> there needs to be "Landing Pages "  for scopes
[20:12] <bobweaver> like one for TV
[20:12] <bobweaver> One for Music
[20:12] <bobweaver> ect
[20:12] <bobweaver> that way there can be  lens everywhere
[20:13] <bobweaver> but one will not have to choose for 50 lens on the launcher
[20:13] <bobweaver> like in music     pandora scope   local scope    grooveshark scope
[20:14] <tgm4883> jhodapp, pm?
[20:14] <Saviq> bobweaver, of course, the number of lens needs to be limited
[20:14] <Saviq> bobweaver, much more so than on the desktop
[20:14] <bobweaver> Saviq,  let me take a screen shot of what I am talking about
[20:15] <tgm4883> Saviq, I agree, there needs to really be only like 6 lens
[20:15] <tgm4883> maybe less
[20:15] <Saviq> tgm4883, I'd say less
[20:15] <jhodapp> tgm4883: pm?
[20:15] <Saviq> tgm4883, videos, music, photos, tv, maaaaybe contacts
[20:15] <jhodapp> tgm4883: oh sorry, private msg
[20:16] <Saviq> OT: yay, a PR1.3 update for my stillborn phone :D
[20:16] <bobweaver> see here is the thing thou gents to have scopes of this magnitude you need to have lens also
[20:16] <tgm4883> Music, Videos, Pictures, tv
[20:16] <bobweaver> not just one scope per lens
[20:16] <tgm4883> Saviq, heh, we have the same idea's
[20:16] <tgm4883> I'd probably forgo contacts as a lens in TV though
[20:16] <bobweaver> because the lens need to use css to grab stuff
[20:17] <Saviq> bobweaver, of course
[20:17] <Saviq> bobweaver, css?
[20:17] <Saviq> tgm4883, I only mean for VoIP
[20:17] <bobweaver> the python code to grab from each site there stuff
[20:17] <bobweaver> brb
[20:17] <Saviq> tgm4883, might be a separate app, though, but would be nicer to have all your contacts aggregated, not split for skype, google chat, jabber etc.
[20:18] <bobweaver> http://imagebin.org/219361
[20:18] <bobweaver> take a look at that
[20:18] <bobweaver> each one is its own lens
[20:19] <bobweaver> that is what I mean by "Landing page "
[20:19] <tgm4883> Saviq, I can see a reason for contacts or applications lenses, but probably not both
[20:19] <tgm4883> Saviq, I'd lean towards applications rather than contacts though
[20:19] <bobweaver> the user should be abl to install whatever lens they like
[20:19] <Saviq> bobweaver, sure, lenses should be apps, basically
[20:19] <bobweaver> yeah
[20:20] <Saviq> tgm4883, I
[20:20] <Saviq> 'd rather get rid of apps in mine
[20:20] <Saviq> but whatever
[20:20] <bobweaver> so if I click on watchseries it loads the lens
[20:20] <bobweaver> I have a altered apps launcher also that I am wprking on
[20:20] <tgm4883> Saviq, I'd agree, but then you might have apps that don't have a reason to be associated with contacts
[20:20] <bobweaver> that wraps the apps in the dash
[20:20] <tgm4883> which is why I went the other way
[20:21] <bobweaver> I think that each "Launcher"  should be to a landing page that has Launding page
[20:21] <bobweaver> Landing *
[20:22] <bobweaver> this way other lens to not get mucky   like the video lens and the video lens and also the other video lens.    aka the Ubuntu tv video lens   the Ubuntu 12.04 video lens   the Youtube Video Lens
[20:23] <bobweaver> launcher==>laundingpage ==> lens ==> dash
[20:24] <bobweaver> there is just to many cool lens  not to do it that way
[20:25] <Saviq> bobweaver, so by "landing page" you mean an intermediate stage
[20:25] <bobweaver> not sure
[20:26] <bobweaver> this is what I did
[20:26] <Saviq> where you select the ~content type, then the lens
[20:26] <bobweaver> I hacked Home.qml
[20:26] <bobweaver> so that lens are only showing up
[20:26] <bobweaver> correct Saviq
[20:27] <Saviq> bobweaver, I'd say that's too much complication, why not just have the scopes bind into the Video lens?
[20:27] <bobweaver> like select Videos "Launcher "   and you get page that can take you too a number of lens
[20:27] <Saviq> then you can select the source via filter s
[20:27] <Saviq> -[ ]
[20:27] <bobweaver> because it will not work that way
[20:27] <Saviq> what won't?
[20:27] <Saviq> and why won't it?
[20:27] <bobweaver> some of the scopes Need there own lens
[20:28] <bobweaver> like the youtube one and watchseries one this would also solve are 12.04 video lens trouble
[20:28] <Saviq> youtube is already included in the 12.04 video lens
[20:28] <bobweaver> rename the Ubuntu tv lens to ublens ect
[20:28] <bobweaver> that  is a joke right ^^
[20:28] <tgm4883> There needs to be a single Videos lens for Ubuntu TV/Desktop/etc
[20:29] <Saviq> +1 ^
[20:29] <tgm4883> bobweaver, youtube works in my 12.04 desktop videos lens
[20:29] <bobweaver> If you go that route you are going to miss out on code that a=is already out there
[20:29] <bobweaver> and re-inventing the wheel
[20:29] <Saviq> bobweaver, it's already there for the video lens, too
[20:30] <bobweaver> the Ubuntu video lens has Nothing on my youtube lens
[20:30] <Saviq> bobweaver, the whole idea behind Unity is aggregation, unification
[20:30] <Saviq> we don't want to have separate lenses for the same content type, unless necessary
[20:30] <bobweaver> sure but that is impossible how can css be read to render to screen from one site and another in one lens
[20:31] <tgm4883> css?
[20:31] <Saviq> bobweaver, not following
[20:31] <tgm4883> why are we rendering websites?
[20:31] <tgm4883> Saviq, oh, I get what he is saying
[20:31] <bobweaver> to get Icons and all sorts of info
[20:31] <tgm4883> Saviq, the questions was, how is it possible to render two different websites in a lens
[20:31] <bobweaver> ok so on the lens that I just made
[20:32] <Saviq> bobweaver, that's what scopes are for, each is specific to a backend, there's a scope for youtube, a scope for vimeo etc.
[20:32] <bobweaver> project free tv
[20:32] <tgm4883> Saviq, which is a misunderstanding of how that works
[20:32] <bobweaver> I know how to make lens guys and scopes
[20:32] <MrChrisDruif> What's with all this activity tonight? =P
[20:33] <Saviq> MrChrisDruif, people having grief with us not telling what we're doing ;)
[20:33] <tgm4883> bobweaver, I'm just not understanding why we need to render any website at all?
[20:33] <MrChrisDruif> I can completely understand
[20:33] <MrChrisDruif> It's like a secret group within a community, making their own decisions
[20:33] <tgm4883> the lens just shows whatever the scope is offering it
[20:34] <tgm4883> the scope takes the data it gets from the website and condenses it down to just the info that the lens needs
[20:34] <tgm4883> no need for css
[20:34] <bobweaver> if a.get('href').startswith("http://http://www.free-tv-video-online.me/internet/"):					if counter % (2):
[20:34] <bobweaver> how to pull the links with out css ?
[20:34] <bobweaver> for a in tree.cssselect('tr td a'):
[20:35] <Saviq> bobweaver, so first thing is: we will never support scopes that do site scraping
[20:35] <Saviq> if only for compliance with terms of service
[20:35] <tgm4883> bobweaver, you're misunderstanding. The css and all that would be handled by the scope, not the lens
[20:35] <bobweaver> but 3rd party ?
[20:35] <bobweaver> tgm4883,  no I am not
[20:36] <tgm4883> bobweaver, which is why you are doing it wrong
[20:36] <Saviq> bobweaver, the scopes are responsible for translating "websites" into: title, description, image
[20:36] <Saviq> bobweaver, the lens only sees those three
[20:36] <bobweaver> you can not have a bunch of scopes calling and scraping it will crash I have tried
[20:36] <Saviq> bobweaver, of course you can
[20:36] <Saviq> bobweaver, that's exactly what they're there for
[20:36] <tgm4883> bobweaver, that is what it does right now
[20:36] <bobweaver> I have tried over and over again and get nothing
[20:36] <Saviq> bobweaver, that means you did something wrong
[20:36] <bobweaver> could be
[20:37] <Saviq> bobweaver, a single lens calls into whatever number of scopes you have installed
[20:37] <bobweaver> I know that
[20:37] <bobweaver> I have wrote lens and scopes
[20:37] <bobweaver> I understand how they work or at least the idea
[20:38] <bobweaver> you can scrap all them sites in one scope then parse to vlc ?
[20:38] <tgm4883> no
[20:38] <bobweaver> sorry one lens
[20:38] <Saviq> bobweaver, no, one scope per site
[20:38] <tgm4883> well, maybe
[20:38] <Saviq> sure you could, but that's not the  idea
[20:38] <tgm4883> one lens references multiple scopes
[20:38] <Saviq> the idea is: one source, one scope
[20:38] <Saviq> one lens, multiple scopes
[20:38] <Saviq> the aggregation happens on the lens level
[20:39] <Saviq> all scopes query in parallel (which should help speed up data flow)
[20:39] <bobweaver> so you are saying that if I take my three scopes youtube watchseries and prokect free tv out in /unity/lens/videos    they will all work with native UBtv video scope ?
[20:39] <Saviq> bobweaver, yes
[20:39] <bobweaver> no workie
[20:39] <Saviq> bobweaver, they should, at least
[20:40] <bobweaver> ok So I just tried to put Ub TV  scope into 12.04 video lens and no workie
[20:40] <Saviq> bobweaver, can't say why, but that's how it should work
[20:40] <bobweaver> renamed dbus also
[20:41] <Saviq> bobweaver, you can see there's a video-remote.scope there
[20:41] <bobweaver> correct
[20:41] <Saviq> bobweaver, did you implement the "source" filter in your scopes?
[20:42] <bobweaver> this is where if you add libunity picks up on dbus path
[20:42] <bobweaver> correct ^^
[20:42] <bobweaver> I did
[20:42] <Saviq> bobweaver, can't really say what happened, but that's exactly the path you should take
[20:42] <Saviq> if it didn't work, there's something wrong, but not the general approach
[20:43] <bobweaver> I fought with that for a month
[20:43] <bobweaver> to get both 12.04 video and also Ubuntu tv video to go togeather
[20:44] <bobweaver> no workie maybe me but the minute I make new lens Name and rename things both scopes work
[20:44] <Saviq> bobweaver, so the ubuntutv video is different in the sense it implements both the lens _and_ the scope in the same process
[20:44] <Saviq> mostly because it's a quick hack-up of a lens
[20:44] <bobweaver> ahh
[20:45] <Saviq> bobweaver, so you would need to chuck the lens parts of it out, and make it a proper scope
[20:45] <bobweaver> I hade to rename everything in Ubuntu tv scope and now both work for 12.04
[20:45] <bobweaver> correct one that ties to the video scope
[20:45] <bobweaver> just write into that scope
[20:46] <bobweaver> This was my thought 1 month ago
[20:46] <bobweaver> it is hard to do
[20:46] <bobweaver> maybe I am not skilled enough
[20:47] <tgm4883> http://imagebin.org/219365
[20:47] <tgm4883> bam
[20:47] <tgm4883> that is how it works right now with the videos scope, only there are a lot more videos scopes in use by default
[20:47] <bobweaver> tgm but local on both scopes do not like ech other
[20:48] <tgm4883> bobweaver, so make the scopes not local?
[20:48] <bobweaver> I have looked at that code over and over again but get no where
[20:48] <tgm4883> bobweaver, I'm no expert on it, but the mythtv scope is a separate scope from the videos lens
[20:48] <bobweaver> tgm4883,  I am talkingabout taking the scope from Ubuntu tv and implanting into that I tried for a month
[20:48] <tgm4883> no expert on scopes, I'm an expert on the mythtv scope ;)
[20:48] <bobweaver> it is not as easy as it seems
[20:49] <Saviq> bobweaver, you know http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/technologies/lenses-and-scopes/ I presume?
[20:49] <bobweaver> yes
[20:50] <tgm4883> bobweaver, for the mythtv scope, I actually had to write a third utility to query the API
[20:50] <tgm4883> not 100% that was necessary, but it's doable
[20:50] <Saviq> bobweaver, afraid there's no better source, but maybe you should go through that again focusing on the "remote scope" approach
[20:50] <tgm4883> IIRC, to do the mythtv scope, I basically just learned from the youtube scope
[20:51] <bobweaver> Yeah it might just be me. But at any rate I have both of them running just as 2 lens and not one
[20:52] <tgm4883> hmm, apparently lunch was 2 hours ago
[20:52] <bobweaver> lol
[20:52] <tgm4883> I blame Saviq for showing up and answering all these questions :P
[20:52] <Saviq> I apologize, will now go away and not show up again during lunch time ;P
[20:53] <bobweaver> I do say the minute that there is Nux code I am all ready to paint but until then I am going to keep on making qml pages
[20:53] <Saviq> it's actually 11pm here, so I've to go
[20:53] <bobweaver> no need for me to waste more time
[20:53] <Saviq> bobweaver, if you need help with the scope, don't hesitate to ask, if not me, I'll try and find someone who can help
[20:53] <bobweaver> all I want is a good looking projector :)
[20:54] <bobweaver> thanks Saviq
[20:55] <bobweaver> so there is one other thing that I would like to say about the tv
[20:55] <bobweaver> the Video Preview
[20:56] <bobweaver> this should have "dialog" pop ups that show the movie actors fan-art in background and also the nfo files that javascript is reading need to be placed in a background image with a scollbar
[20:56] <bobweaver> it runs of the page :)
[20:56] <bobweaver> that is all I ahve to say thanks guys
[21:01] <tgm4883> bobweaver, so to answer your initial question, it looks like we need to create grabbers for grilo to get metadata from the right sites
[21:03] <jhodapp> yes that's right
[21:08] <bobweaver> eye-yia-yai
[21:08] <bobweaver> what is wrong with moviedb and tvdb I am looking at grilo now
[21:09] <tgm4883> bobweaver, grilo is a framework for pulling metadata (among other things)
[21:10] <tgm4883> it seems similiar to Ubuntu TV
[21:10] <tgm4883> you query for metadata for a piece of content, and it queries a bunch of places
[21:11] <bobweaver> tgm4883,  you are right about a weekly blog
[21:11] <bobweaver> lol
[21:11] <tgm4883> bobweaver, it's going to be done
[21:11] <tgm4883> starting this friday
[21:11] <bobweaver> I just spent two days reading up on tvdb and moviedb
[21:12] <bobweaver> bleeding edge = not working for everyone
[21:13] <bobweaver> Meaning I do not see the 2 most imporant places that meta data has to be hade
[21:13] <bobweaver> moviedb and tvdb
[21:14] <tgm4883> bobweaver, currently those plugins for grilo don't exist
[21:14] <bobweaver> so this means altering gnomes code which means reinventing the wheel again
[21:14] <tgm4883> so we'd have to write them
[21:14] <tgm4883> bobweaver, grilo works with plugins
[21:14] <bobweaver> you mean re-write
[21:14] <tgm4883> no
[21:14] <tgm4883> I mean plugin
[21:14] <bobweaver> a plugin that is already there in other programs ?
[21:15] <tgm4883> yea
[21:15] <bobweaver> I mean why girlo I should say
[21:15] <tgm4883> because this.....
[21:15] <tgm4883> If you use grilo, then when you write ubuntu TV code and you need to get metadata, you code "ask grilo"
[21:16] <tgm4883> if you don't, then when you write ubuntu TV code and you need to get metadata, you code "ask ttvdb", "ask tmdb", "ask apple movie trailers", etc
[21:17] <bobweaver> er
[21:17] <bobweaver> 15 ago  (make new grilo code so that 20 apis will be one )    15 minutes later  there is now 21 apis
[21:18] <tgm4883> no, from the Ubuntu TV perspective, there is 1 API
[21:19] <bobweaver> so that is the plan then ?
[21:19] <tgm4883> apparently so
[21:19] <bobweaver> make new plugins for grilo for moviedb adn tvdb
[21:19] <bobweaver> any other  ?
[21:20] <tgm4883> IDK, I only care about metadata at this point and I don't know of any better sites for metadata
[21:21] <bobweaver> https://live.gnome.org/Grilo/PlannedFeatures
[21:22] <bobweaver> lookslike there are plans already
[21:22] <tgm4883> yea I saw that
[21:22] <bobweaver> but no one taking the leep
[21:22] <tgm4883> bobweaver, well, it's been suggested
[21:22] <tgm4883> exactly
[21:22] <bobweaver> Girlo is NOT Async
[21:22] <tgm4883> my biggest issue with it is it doesn't support python plugins :/
[21:23] <bobweaver> Grilo can be used directly from Qt applications already, however, having Qt bindings available would make it even more natural for Qt developers to use Grilo.
[21:23] <bobweaver> there is vala support
[21:24] <bobweaver> there is also no Daemon
[21:24] <bobweaver> :(
[21:25] <tgm4883> it needs a bit of work
[21:25] <tgm4883> but I'm not sure what could be used that wouldn't need work
[21:28] <bobweaver> it seems to me like there is a hat somewhere with pieces of paper in this hat and each piece has something wrote on it like "NUX" "QT" "Girlo"   ect
[21:28] <bobweaver> now who is picking from this hat
[21:28] <bobweaver> and how do I get a list of this pieces of paper :)
[21:30] <bobweaver> I am adding girlo repo now to see how this all works and how this i going to come together
[21:30] <bobweaver> if at all
[21:32] <bobweaver> stupid auto tools making things more complcated then they need to be
[21:35] <bobweaver> This is awesome the grilo packages are all effed up
[21:36] <bobweaver> dependency issues left and right
[21:49] <bobweaver> IDK guys this seems almost like it does not work
[21:49] <bobweaver> like it needs a year or 2 before it is even stable
[21:53] <bobweaver> It is like you guys are choosing stuff that has no documentation at all.
[21:55] <bobweaver> and to top it all of this is not going to work. ATM.
[21:55] <bobweaver> At this point I have no choice but to branch this off into something else
[21:56] <bobweaver> good luck with everything and I hope that you can push the TV sometime in the next 5 years.


[00:59] <psusi> how do you reassign a bug via email?  wasn't there an unaffects command or something?
[01:10] <dobey> i'm not sure it's possible to mark something as no longer affected in a bug, via e-mail. i think you need to hit the red (-) icon on the web site.
[01:15] <psusi> I could have sworn there was a way to reassign a bug to another package via email... hrm...
[01:16] <psusi> say... can someone help me sort out launchpad with my gpg key?  I made a new subkey last night since the old pair are about to expire, and pushed them to keyserver.ubuntu.com, and they show up when I search there, but lp is still saying it can't verify signatures made with the new key
[01:29] <psusi> ugh.. nevermind, it's just thunderbird being stupid with line wrapping and enigmail
[02:13] <psusi> nope, I am going to need some help debugging this because it's really fscked up
[02:14] <psusi> launchpad keeps saying it can't verify the signature... I thought it was thunderbird's fault because when I opened the source, copied it, and pasted it into a gpg -v, it also said bad signature... but when I save the message and run gpg on the saved file, it says the signature is good
[02:15] <psusi> I noticed that when I copy/paste, an extra space gets inserted into the message at a certain point so something is causing tbird to corrupt the data when it copies it... don't know if it is related or not to why lp doesn't like it
[04:38] <sergio-br2> getting segfault in qemu...
[04:38] <sergio-br2> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/188661519/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-armhf.libretro-picodrive_1.91%2Br5~ubuntu14.04.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[04:38] <sergio-br2> qemu: uncaught target signal 11 (Segmentation fault) - core dumped
[04:39] <wgrant> sergio-br2: Have you tried building it on armhf yourself? It could be a qemu bug, or potentially a bug in your software when built on armhf.
[04:40] <sergio-br2> i don't have arm board yet...
[10:11] <delcypher> I'm having an issue reuploading a package to my PPA. I made a mistake in the original version I uploaded which caused the build to fail. I deleted the package from the web interface but when I try to repupload using dput I get an e-mail saying "Rejected: File z3_4.3.1-0ubuntu1~trusty1.debian.tar.gz already exists"
[10:12] <delcypher> I should say that the reuploaded package source is modified. I don't understand why launchpad is keeping the *.debian.tar.gz file after I removed my broken package from the PPA
[10:13] <geser> because you can't reuse package versions once they got accepted
[10:15] <delcypher> That would make sense if I hadn't deleted the broken package from my PPA but I've deleted it so surely the *.debian.tar.gz should be deleted too no?
[10:15] <wgrant> They are remembered forever to avoid confusion.
[10:16] <wgrant> If you change the package, you must change the version.
[10:16] <delcypher> wgrant: Okay I'll change the version then
[10:18] <delcypher> by the way should I be using the "ubuntu1" inside my version? I haven't made any ubuntu specific changes to my package so maybe it should not be part of the package version.
[10:22] <cjwatson> delcypher: Versioning in your own PPA is essentially up to you, except for a few fixed constraints like can't-reuse, and if your package derives from a version somewhere else or might later be incorporated into other archives then there are some considerations there.  https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/BuildingASourcePackage#versioning has some general advice.
[10:30] <delcypher> cjwatson: Thanks
[10:32] <delcypher> Is it possible to have a PPA contained multiple versions of a package e.g. 4.3.1 and 4.3.2 ? I originally uploaded version 4.3.2 of a package but I discovered that I needed 4.3.1 too. I tried uploading 4.3.1 put launchpad refused to accept an older package so I found I had to delete 4.3.2 from my PPA first.
[10:33] <maxb> No, uploading a newer package automatically supersedes older versions
[10:33] <cjwatson> Not in a single series.
[10:33] <cjwatson> But you can trivially have multiple PPAs.
[10:34] <delcypher> Okay. I now have version 4.3.1 in my PPA so if I upload 4.3.2 to my PPA 4.3.1 will no longer be available (even if someone does apt-get install mypackage==4.3.1)?
[10:34] <maxb> What you choose to do depends mostly on whether the multiple versions are supposed to be installable side by side on a single system or not. Is that the case here?
[10:35] <maxb> (installed simultaneously, that is)
[10:36] <delcypher> maxb: The packages are not intended to be installed side by side but it would be nice is multiple versions of the package were available from the same PPA. If that is not possible I guess multiple PPAs are an option.
[10:37] <maxb> Multiple PPAs are the easy way for you. Doing it in one PPA would require using distinct package names for each release series. i.e. mypackage-4.3.1 version 4.3.1-1
[10:38] <maxb> Which is entirely possible but more work to vary the package build files
[10:39] <maxb> You can see a similar approach used in Debian/Ubuntu for the python packages
[10:39] <delcypher> maxb: Sorry for my ignorance but aren't the package names already distinct? I would have mypackage-4.3.1 and mypackage-4.3.2 so those are distinct right?
[10:40] <delcypher> maxb: or is the part after "mypackage-" not considered part of the name?
[10:41] <maxb> When I say name, I'm referring literally to just the name, not the version. So the package file on disk would be mypackage-4.3.1_4.3.1-1_amd64.deb
[10:42] <maxb> (Debian/Ubuntu use _ for the component separator)
[10:49] <delcypher> maxb: Okay that makes sense. It's a little more work as I would need to add "Conflicts" to my control file but the package I'm building does not make frequent releases so this probably acceptable.
[10:50] <cjwatson> It is not currently possible to have multiple versions of a single package name available in a single series from the same PPA.  It's true that apt supports this, but we don't want PPAs to be growing without bound as people upload more and more superseded versions, so this would need to be off by default with some kind of management interface, which would be a fair amount of work to design and implement.
[10:51] <delcypher> cjwatson: Fair enough.
[10:51] <delcypher> Okay thanks for the help :)
[10:55] <lifeless> cjwatson: wouldn't quotas take care of the bounds thing?
[10:59] <cjwatson> lifeless: It would still be cumbersome to maintain without a fair bit of extra work.
[10:59] <wgrant> And it's useful in very few scenarios.
[10:59] <cjwatson> And it wouldn't be ideal to have a bunch of what would normally be 100MB archives all bumping up against quotas due to unpruned binaries that nobody actually cares about, either.
[11:00] <lifeless> fair enough
[11:00] <cjwatson> But, true, "without bound" was sloppy phrasing.
[11:01] <lifeless> I just think LP sometimes overthinks things
[11:01] <lifeless> and was wondering whether the low-key approach might work
[11:01] <cjwatson> True to some extent, but unpruned binaries really would be a very common case if we never dominated PPAs ...
[11:02] <cjwatson> Even the relatively rare case of unpruned NBS kernel binaries is fairly awkward to deal with right now, IIRC
[11:02] <lifeless> right, midnight. I must off.
[22:21] <nickoe> Is there any way to mark already fix committed   bugs with fix released without spamming people?
[22:48] <dobey> nickoe: anyone subscribed to the bug will get an email with the change notice.
[22:57] <nickoe> dobey: yeah, and that means a lot of mails.
[22:57] <nickoe> dobey: hundreds of mails, if there are hundreds of bugs marked with fix committed.
[23:01] <dobey> yes, well
[23:01] <dobey> i guess people might want to know if the bug was fixed, that's why they subscribed to it
[23:05] <nickoe> dobey: Is there an easy way to mark all fix commited bugs as fix released?
[23:05] <dobey> nickoe: a python script using the API
[23:06] <nickoe> ok
[23:06] <nickoe> dobey: Do launchpad have a playground for playing around with api, not to change anything live or the ned for creating a sandbox project?
[23:07] <dobey> nickoe: staging.api.launchpad.net server
[23:07] <dobey> or api.staging.launchpad.net
[23:07] <dobey> it's one of those two
[23:07] <nickoe> Ok, thank you.
[23:09]  * nickoe thinks it is annoying that there is no option in lp to auto subscribe to a bug that I have written or changed anything in.
[23:12] <dobey> file a bug :)
[23:12] <nickoe> dobey: Does that staging copy the data from the real once in a while or?
[23:13] <nickoe> dobey: It was there last time I searched, and it was like five years old.
[23:13] <dobey> nickoe: i don't think so
[23:13] <nickoe> seems to be copied at least from 2014-07-03
[23:14] <dobey> maybe it is. i don't recall
[23:14] <dobey> but you can create a set of bugs (and milestone, etc if needed) with the same structure, and test with those
[23:19] <nickoe> ok


[11:11] <sharky^ger> hello, i am affected to this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1014490 is there anything i can do to solve the issue?
[11:11] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1014490 in linux (Ubuntu) "8086:1503 Ubuntu 12.04LTS server doesn't detect Intel 82579V on Supermicro X9SCL-F" [Medium,Confirmed]
[22:56] <melkor> Seasons greetings, I have found an error while building something that depends on the kernel headers when I use the 3.7.1 kernel in the mainline ppa.
[22:57] <melkor> I am building a dell touchpad driver and it works fine for 3.6.x but will not compile when using 3.7.x. I'm not sure who to contact about this. It appears to be a regression in the kernel but I'm not sure.
[23:06] <mjg59> melkor: A kernel driver?
[23:06] <mjg59> melkor: Drivers often need to be updated to build against newer versions of the kernel
[23:06] <mjg59> Only the userspace ABI is stable, not the kernelspace one
[23:10] <melkor> mjg59: I am not to knowledgable in this area so here is what I found. I am using a mouse driver that I build against the kernel, whenever I update I have to rebuild.
[23:11] <melkor> In the 3.7 kernel the function input_mt_slots takes 3 arguments, in the 3.6 kernel the function only takes 2 arguments.
[23:13] <melkor> This function is found in the mt.h, I don't know if this is userspace ABI or kernelspace. If it is kernel space I suppose Ill contact the maker of the driver.
[23:59] <melkor> sorry, I dropped my x session. If anybody responded I missed it.


[07:00] <dholbach> good morning
[07:03] <ajmitch> morning dholbach
[07:03] <dholbach> hey ajmitch
[07:25] <shadeslayer> hey dholbach :)
[07:25] <dholbach> hi shadeslayer :)
[07:44] <shadeslayer> has anyone seen a error like this? http://paste.kde.org/122137/ , i think its because of multiarch ...
[08:27] <geser> is -lQt4::QtWebKit a valid library name at all?
[09:40] <hakermania> Hello :) How came wallch was successfully built in armel? Any news?
[09:43] <Laney> we rebuilt opencv to pick up the missing symbols
[10:11] <shadeslayer> geser: found the issue, its not valid, but since i installed the deps after the build had failed, the cmake files were not fixed
[10:11] <shadeslayer> btw, anyone around who could sponsor a upload of syncevolution? It's a bug fix release
[11:57] <shadeslayer> nvm that syncevolution request, needs a sync of another package first
[12:20] <hakermania> Laney, thanks :D
[13:31] <tumbleweed> Laney: any chance you can make tonight's release team meeting? /me has a crazy busy week
[14:05] <Laney> tumbleweed: erm
[14:06] <Laney> what happens there?
[14:10] <tumbleweed> Laney: give a one-minute overview of the state of the universe, when your turn comes, at ~16h00 UTC
[14:10] <Laney> how do you know what the state is?
[14:10] <Laney> "bad"
[14:10] <Laney> :P
[14:10] <nigelb> "terrible"
[14:10] <nigelb> ;)
[14:11] <ScottK> "Not so horrible we shouldn't release"
[14:12] <Laney> well, those ftbfs bugs are well down
[14:12] <Laney> so that's encouraging
[14:13] <nigelb> If you get to say "Better than main"...
[14:13] <tumbleweed> Laney: it's still rediculously high, but better
[14:13] <tumbleweed> cjwatson's call for help seems to have worked :)
[14:13] <Laney> do we have any historical data?
[14:14] <Laney> looking at failed build records in production doesn't give you the full picture
[14:14] <tumbleweed> yeah, that's all I have
[14:14]  * Laney hopes the rebuilds become a regular thing
[14:46] <lenios> i'd like to get likewise-open ubuntu package to be available on debian, what should i do? ask the ubuntu maintainer, report the package as ITP in debian?
[14:47] <lenios> looks like maintainer is zul
[14:49] <ScottK> We have historical data for failed to build records in production.
[14:50] <ScottK> Laney and tumbleweed: http://skitterman.wordpress.com/2010/10/09/ftbfs-final-score/ <- That's all I know of (and obviously not idea).
[14:50] <lenios> i just tried to build oneiric version on latest unstable and it works
[14:51] <tumbleweed> I'm trying to organise better stats. If I get my act together and get my historical data patch merged into the qa-ftbfs tool, then we should have much better data
[14:53] <ScottK> Great.
[18:44] <alkisg> Hi, how can I get the version number from debian/changelog and show it in a gtk dialog, i.e. put it in a .glade or .py file? If someone can give me a hint about a debhelper package that does that..
[18:46] <tumbleweed> alkisg: python-debian can read changelogs
[18:48] <alkisg> Ah sorry I probably didn't express myself correctly, let me rephrase
[18:48] <alkisg> I want to do that as part of debian/rules
[18:48] <tumbleweed> dpkg-parsechangelog?
[18:48] <alkisg> So, when I run e.g. debuild to build a package, debian/rules reads the changelog, and puts it in the .glade file
[18:49] <tumbleweed> take the output of dpkg-parsechangelog, run it through sed / awk to get the Version out, and feed it into the .glade file with sed :)
[18:49] <alkisg> I've found dpkg-parsechangelog, or I can also just use sed to read the version from debian/changelog, but I don't know how to apply it in the source tree, without causing vcs diffs
[18:50] <alkisg> Maybe that would be done after the dh_install part? in the temporary tree?
[18:50] <tumbleweed> sounds sane
[18:51] <alkisg> Thank you, I'll try that - but if someone knows of a package that does something similar, I could reuse the snippets from there :)
[18:53] <micahg> ooh, netbeans is about to enter unstable
[23:04] <ScottSanbar> Question:  I am getting an error when I do debuild on my build environment.  I do not know why this is happening.  See the pasted debuild output here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/691118/
[23:04] <ScottSanbar> names
[23:07] <ScottSanbar> ping
[23:15] <ScottK> ScottSanbar: Line 2.  You have AUTHORS listed twice which is why it's complaining about trying to overwrite it.
[23:24] <ScottSanbar> ScottK: Thanks! In retrospect, that should have been blatently obvious, but live and learn ...
[23:24] <ScottSanbar> ScottK: BTW, it works now.  Thanks again.
[23:28] <ScottSanbar> ScottK:  Could you help me with the following lintian output?  I undestnad the .ex stuff, but not the rest:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/691128/


[00:57] <jyo> jtatum: Yeah. Caught him on Gchat yesterday. Email him?
[00:59] <philipballew> gnomememes.tumblr.com
[00:59] <philipballew> slightly funny ^
[01:58] <philipballew> Time for some more Mineral Water!
[04:47] <philipballew> Third Mineral water today!
[05:04] <greg-g> I should get something good to drink, I've only had 2 beers since lunch time
[06:37] <philipballew> bkerensa, so were you givin any information about these hp cloud servers they gave you?
[06:54] <epikvision> hey guy
[06:54] <epikvision> s
[06:54] <philipballew> epikvision, hello!
[06:55] <epikvision> hey philipballew
[06:55] <epikvision> grantbow, are you present?
[06:55] <philipballew> so if you want to install linux desktops in school there are many benifits, but you just have to convince the admins to see them
[06:55] <philipballew> epikvision, I assume people are gone as its midnight
[06:56] <epikvision> sigh
[06:56] <epikvision> i should've brought this up earlier
[06:56] <philipballew> I said ask him, because he gave the talk you saw at uds. however he is not here now most likely
[06:58] <pleia2> philipballew: I don't know context in this case, but it's not just about "the admins"
[06:58] <philipballew> why the rush?
[06:58] <philipballew> haha, well good luck dude
[06:58] <pleia2> there are a lot of funding, district-level stuff and other complications in public schools which are pretty much impossible to get around
[06:59] <epikvision> impossible?
[06:59] <epikvision> :(
[06:59] <philipballew> yeah epikvision
[06:59] <pleia2> partimus only works in public charter schools
[06:59] <epikvision> charter schools, ahh
[06:59] <pleia2> we're in the library of one unified school district school, but they literally sneak us in the back door
[06:59] <philipballew> thats true
[07:00] <pleia2> I spoke to several people at SCALE who were putting linux in schools, their experiences mirrored that of Partimus - even people who have worked for public schools
[07:00] <philipballew> probably in the middle of the night and you wear all black
[07:00] <pleia2> they all either moved to charter schools, or only target charter schools (like we do), to succeed
[07:01] <epikvision> pleia2: can you tell me about Partimus?
[07:01] <epikvision> what is it exactly
[07:01] <pleia2> it's a non-profit which takes in hardware donations and coordinates volunteers to take the hardware donations and build and maintain labs in a few bay area schools
[07:01] <philipballew> yeah, linux is not established on the desktop
[07:02] <pleia2> philipballew: it's more complicated than that :(
[07:02] <pleia2> there are funding things tied to technology (they need to spend their tech budget or they lose it), approvals for software, requirements for software and what needs to be supported
[07:02] <philipballew> I know pleia2 . I was just trying to simplify it down. Its near impossible to do so.
[07:02] <epikvision> yeah
[07:02] <epikvision> but at least i'm getting it
[07:03] <pleia2> even if it was established on the desktop it would be a hard sell (it took a decade or longer for Windows to make it in to schools after Apple took over, in some schools Apple still dominates)
[07:03] <pleia2> once Windows was a success in the consumer market
[07:04] <epikvision> now, it's a hag in the school market
[07:04] <pleia2> well, they are making progress again with the ipads in schools (shudder)
[07:04] <epikvision> oh my
[07:05] <pleia2> did you see bug 1000000? :)
[07:05] <epikvision> does ubuntu have its own gradepro softwre?
[07:05] <philipballew> windows desktops are used 100 at my school, yet about 70 percent of students use osx
[07:05] <pleia2> gradepro?
[07:05] <philipballew> I thiught that was a good bug pleia2
[07:05] <epikvision> grade inputting app
[07:06] <epikvision> application for teachers
[07:06] <pleia2> there is very little consumer-level software released for linux
[07:06] <epikvision> mmm
[07:06] <pleia2> there may be some you can get working on ubuntu, particularly if it's web-based
[07:07] <philipballew> weve seen that lately
[07:07] <epikvision> sounds nice
[07:07] <scientes> philipballew, "70 percent of students use osx"
[07:07] <pleia2> yeah, the partimus schools all use a lot of web software, so we need to make sure their java and flash packages work well
[07:07] <scientes> rich kid school?
[07:08] <scientes> pleia2, i havn't used java for years
[07:08] <pleia2> scientes: neither have I, but a lot of web-based games and educational tools still do (we're talking elementary to middle)
[07:08] <scientes> well, scratch that, usgs has a "earth now" applet that is pretty cool--live streams of landsats---but that works fine with the openjdk applet
[07:08] <pleia2> I don't have it installed anywhere
[07:09] <epikvision> maybe, I'm too ambitious.
[07:09] <scientes> pleia2, http://earthnow.usgs.gov/
[07:09] <epikvision> but i don't think it hurts to give it a shot
[07:09] <pleia2> epikvision: what are you trying to do?
[07:09] <epikvision> ahh
[07:09] <scientes> anyways i'm going to go to sleep, pleia2 where is this edu project mailing list?
[07:10] <pleia2> scientes: for partimus? or ubuntu in education in general? or edubuntu dev?
[07:10] <scientes> partimus i believe
[07:10] <philipballew> scientes, around there. might be 60. It definitely is. I have a scholership so I hang out with rich OC kids all day. Really interesting to see the socio-political differences between a rich socal kid and a poor norcal kid
[07:10] <epikvision> pleia2: i'm planning to raise school attention to make Linux the main os
[07:10] <epikvision> xp has been around too long.
[07:11] <pleia2> epikvision: ah, awareness is always good :)
[07:11] <scientes> epikvision, except that vista, and vista 7  suck
[07:11] <pleia2> if you make progress in a california public school I'd be interested to hear about it
[07:11] <epikvision> alright!
[07:11] <scientes> !!
[07:11] <epikvision> I'm pretty revved u
[07:11] <epikvision> up
[07:11] <philipballew> Spread the loco epikvision !
[07:12] <philipballew> a ubuntu high?
[07:12]  * epikvision nods in earnest
[07:12] <epikvision> sleep deprivation won't stop me now!  woot
[07:12]  * epikvision was just kidding
[07:12] <philipballew> that speach my jono at uds really reved you up at the end?
[07:12] <epikvision> yeah
[07:12] <epikvision> it was magnifique
[07:13]  * philipballew wore jono's shirt yesterday
[07:13] <pleia2> me too actually (to a balug meeting)
[07:13]  * epikvision feels jealous
[07:13] <pleia2> I hope you washed it first :)
[07:13] <philipballew> Why would I wash it?
[07:14] <pleia2> hahah
[07:14] <epikvision> pleia2: before I leave, can you suggest some good arguments to present?
[07:14] <epikvision> about adopting open source?
[07:14] <philipballew> Yeah, Made sure to make it not smell like  old spice
[07:14] <pleia2> epikvision: don't talk about cost, it doesn't matter
[07:15] <pleia2> epikvision: talk about freedom in the sense of open data and the free availability of the source code to make changes to the software without paying huge expensive fees to a vendor who locks you in
[07:15] <philipballew> people dont really care about open source, only that it works
[07:15] <epikvision> gotcha, i need to fill up some gaps.
[07:15] <scientes> and teaching kids to be self-suficient
[07:15] <scientes> cause only with free software can they learn about the system
[07:15] <pleia2> philipballew: vendor lock-in is a serious problem :(
[07:16] <philipballew> pleia2, How so?
[07:16] <epikvision> what's vendor lockin
[07:16] <pleia2> schools, companies, government organizations, everyone gets locked into a format and all their data is trapped, they have to keep paying the vendor forever
[07:16] <philipballew> I see many people happly buy the software and love the propitery companies?
[07:16] <scientes> philipballew, open your eyes, half of your technical problems are caused by market pie cutting for mega-conglomerates
[07:16] <pleia2> if the vendor goes out of business, they're in trouble, if they want to leave, they pay mega expensive migration costs
[07:17] <scientes> epikvision, vendor treadmill
[07:17] <pleia2> with open source at least you have the option of figuring out how your data went in, so if there is no easy export tool you can typically get it out without too much trouble
[07:17] <pleia2> still may not be cheap, but at least you're not at the mercy of a black box vendor holding you hostage
[07:17] <philipballew> I know scientes I just dont always think others see i.
[07:17] <philipballew> my college I go to has to have windows 2000 servers running still that controll the locks for the doors
[07:19] <scientes> wtf there is a ubuntu icon character!!!!
[07:19] <scientes> http://www.jorgecastro.org/images/column80.png
[07:19] <pleia2> epikvision: even if you don't succeed, getting people to start thinking about these things, or remembering pains in the past (I assure you many have had trouble with vendor lock in), they may be more open in the future
[07:19] <philipballew> i agree that cost is not an issue, people always bring up that point, but its not that big of a deal to get a giant reuseable windows licance key
[07:20] <scientes> philipballew, and the first thing microsoft does is offer them a DRASTICALLY reduced license to keep ppl from switching
[07:20] <pleia2> philipballew: schools tend to get pretty deep discounts from microsoft
[07:20] <philipballew> I have one for work that I never use
[07:20]  * epikvision chuckles
[07:20] <epikvision> why not just install ubuntu there as well?
[07:21] <philipballew> +1
[07:21] <scientes> http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1998/07/20/245683/index.htm
[07:21] <scientes> Bill Gates: "Although about three million computers get sold every year in China, people don't pay for the software. Someday they will, though. And as long as they're going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade. "
[07:21] <pleia2> epikvision: you're local to the bay area, right?
[07:21] <epikvision> no
[07:21] <epikvision> unfortunately
[07:21] <pleia2> doh
[07:21] <pleia2> how'd you get to UDS? :)
[07:21] <philipballew> i get free coppies if I want as I am a computer informations student
[07:22] <epikvision> I live in Los Angeles
[07:22] <pleia2> ah
[07:22] <epikvision> XD my dad was really nice to bring me there
[07:22] <pleia2> your dad rocks :)
[07:22] <philipballew> hi five for dad
[07:22] <scientes> philipballew, I get free copies of Ubuntu , on nice pressed CDs, at UDS :))
[07:22] <epikvision> thanks!  And I sacrificed ap week to check out the Ubuntu community
[07:22] <epikvision> now, from my dormancy, I arose with newfound purpose.
[07:22] <pleia2> epikvision: might want to check out http://www.komputers4rkids.com/
[07:23] <philipballew> scientes, as did I. I took like 50 of them!
[07:23] <pleia2> epikvision: if you get even a single teacher interested who can put a computer in their classroom, k4rk can probably hook you up
[07:23] <philipballew> epikvision, you know dave (iheartubuntu) has a small buissness he runs where he installs ubuntu on desktops
[07:24] <epikvision> really?!
[07:24] <epikvision> funny, I don't see him at ubuntu hour at pasadena often
[07:24] <pleia2> he's been mega busy lately :\
[07:24] <philipballew> I think so, he used to. he has a lot of small business that he actually never does anything with but still owns them
[07:25] <philipballew> I talked stalks with him for a good hour today
[07:25] <philipballew> *stocks
[07:26] <philipballew> pleia2, He was able to run those open weel sessions though
[07:26] <philipballew> *week
[07:26] <pleia2> yeah, can do those from home :)
[07:27] <pleia2> he wasn't able to make it out to scale this year, was sad
[07:27] <philipballew> true. i was hoping to see him as uds. but only richard came
[07:27] <pleia2> and he was only around for a couple days
[07:27] <philipballew> I was sad I wanted to see him there
[07:28] <philipballew> yeah, had to go back to la. hes a professional dev for his own small company
[07:28]  * pleia2 nods
[07:28] <philipballew> he is going to be working this year writting docs for peoople porting apps to ubuntu iirc
[07:28] <pleia2> yeah, and trying to get app dev stuff out to the broader programming communities
[07:29] <pleia2> we're very good at talking to our choir ;)
[07:29] <philipballew> exactly. the problem is that the people who write the app portal only know ubuntu, so windows devs have a hard time coming to join.
[07:30] <epikvision> we need people with the best of both worlds, huh
[07:30] <philipballew> im a horrible programmer
[07:30] <scientes> as are most windows programmers ;)
[07:31] <pleia2> hehe
[07:31] <philipballew> the only thing I have close to a windows install around me is a reactos vm
[07:31] <scientes> ugggghhhh
[07:32] <scientes> I guess they help wine
[07:32] <epikvision> hahah
[07:32] <philipballew> maybe that counts
[07:33] <philipballew> its open source
[07:34] <philipballew> scientes, whats wrong with reactos?
[07:36] <pleia2> it's kind of a joke ;)
[07:37] <pleia2> even if it ran well, it can never be a serious OS, Microsoft would shut them down (and be well within their intellectual property rights to do so)
[07:39] <epikvision> pleia2: thanks very much for helping me out
[07:40] <epikvision> i've teamed up with another senior from my school who's into this cause as well
[07:40] <scientes> pleia2, "IP" as a word only causes confusion
[07:40] <pleia2> you're welcome :) feel free to nudge if you have other questions, particularly about the technologies we use and such, I'm happy to help
[07:42] <epikvision> pleia2: alright, have a good night!  tomorrow's the last day of standard testing.
[07:43] <epikvision> you too scientes
[07:43] <pleia2> epikvision: night, good luck!
[07:48]  * pleia2 sleep &
[07:53] <scientes> sleep[1]: terminated
[22:41] <jyo> jtatum: ping
[22:58] <jtatum> hi jyo


[00:00] <guiverc> to me it just looks like an effort made before.. will it last?  (this time)
[00:01] <Bashing-om> It would ne a very sad day to see our community Newsletter fall by the wayside :(
[00:03] <Bashing-om> guiverc: krytarik: I could ask SABDFL what his take is on a competing blog ? Appropriate ?
[00:04] <guiverc> I wouldn't..   Canonical have to do whatever they consider in their best interest.. It's nice if we're told, but I'm not sure we should stick our noses into their business
[00:06] <Bashing-om> Patience is a virtue - OK, we see what happens - In the mean time "press on" .
[00:08] <Bashing-om> I do not want that we blow someone else's horn - but should we alert our readers that there is an alternative newsletter ?
[00:12] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Back now to working the day's Gdoc - I shall return to IRC when I take a break.
[00:13] <guiverc> I think that would be neighbourly (ie. a good thing)
[00:14] <guiverc> we just could list as item in canonical section
[00:16] <krytarik> Yeah, I agree with guiverc that the UWN is more broad, includes more than just news items, and we also have the liberty to look at things another way than Canonical do.  Plus it might also be true that our perseverance (or the one of you two really) can easily outdo Canonical's.
[00:25] <Bashing-om> Well. we do try - and continue to try is what we will do :P
[00:27] <Bashing-om> guiverc: "we just could list as item in canonical section" As last week was the blog's 1st appearance, edit it in UWN670 ?
[00:29] <guiverc> yep.   I've done it before I'm sure (long ago)   as it was missed; I don't see it as critical, but I think it's better if we add stuff we missed when we can  (I'd only do it to the wiki, not further, forum post is complete too but up to you)
[00:31] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Agreed that we should edit last week - I do the WIKI and the Forum - no biggy. Lemme make sure I can pull up the blog's issue #1.
[00:32] <guiverc> ps:  I see fridge as official too, but as it's in Canonical News - that's the only link of fridge :)
[00:34] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Alan Pope: All Ahead Stop @ https://popey.com/blog/2021/02/all-ahead-stop/
[00:56] <Bashing-om> Found last weeks - and proceeding to edit our last week's issue. I go with "canonical section" .
[01:10] <Bashing-om> UWN: "Ubuntu in the wild" edits completed for the WIKI and the Forum post.
[03:12] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: ‘Spot’ is a Native Spotify App for Linux, Built in GTK & Rust @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2021/02/spot-gtk-spotify-client-for-linux (by Joey Sneddon)
[15:31] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: Canonical’s Partner Program Gets Industry Recognition for its Growth and Depth of Port... @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/canonical-partner-program-gets-industry-recognition
[15:50] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Alan Pope: Migrating Two Factor Auth @ https://popey.com/blog/2021/02/migrating-two-factor-auth/
[16:04] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: A Redesigned GNOME Software is in the Works – and it Looks Great! @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2021/02/gnome-software-40-ui-refresh-mockups (by Joey Sneddon)