[00:00] <AlanBell> it can get a bit more complicated than that depending on what you are removing and what the interdependencies are
[00:00] <GreenDance> good night everyone
[00:00] <AlanBell> night o/
[00:00] <brobostigon> night o/
[02:56] <kaushal> Hi
[02:58] <kaushal> can someone please suggest me about https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2011-November/254345.html ?
[02:58] <kaushal> how do i run strace dpkg ?
[04:18] <BigRedS> kaushal: the command is strace, you probably want to look at   man strace  to see the ways of invoking it
[07:26] <kaushal> BigRedS: hi again
[07:26] <kaushal> apologies got disconnected
[07:26] <kaushal> Any clue ?
[07:28] <kaushal> BigRedS: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2011-November/254320.html
[07:36] <MartijnVdS> kaushal: what's the actual problem you're having?
[07:37] <MartijnVdS> kaushal: just posting random mailing list posts won't really help...
[07:38] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: yeah sure
[07:38] <kaushal> i am unable to kill dpkg process
[07:39] <MartijnVdS> kaushal: can you post the output of "ps faux" to a pastebin?
[07:39] <kaushal> sure
[07:40] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/743962/
[07:41] <MartijnVdS> the processes are already dead ("Ds")
[07:41] <MartijnVdS> Is there NFS or sshfs or some other remote file system on this machine?
[07:41] <kaushal> nope
[07:41] <kaushal> so sshfs ?
[07:41] <MartijnVdS> is the disk OK?
[07:41] <kaushal> how do i check it ?
[07:42] <kaushal> for sshfs
[07:42] <MartijnVdS> kaushal: "mount"
[07:42] <MartijnVdS> it'll show all mounted file systems and their types
[07:42] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/743965/
[07:43] <MartijnVdS> xfs
[07:43] <MartijnVdS> shouldn't be a problem
[07:43] <kaushal> How do i purge it ?
[07:43] <MartijnVdS> last thing I'd check before just rebooting (Which will fix it 100% sure :)) was dmesg
[07:43] <MartijnVdS> is there anything about the file system being broken in dmesg
[07:43] <kaushal> i do not have option about reboot
[07:44] <kaushal> nothing
[07:45] <MartijnVdS> I think a reboot is the best solution - finding out what dead processes are sleeping .. no idea
[07:45] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: how about strace
[07:45] <MartijnVdS> kaushal: that doesn't work on dead processes
[07:45] <kaushal> ok
[07:45] <kaushal> so dead means zombie ?
[07:45] <kaushal> i mean defunct
[07:46] <MartijnVdS> defunct, yes
[07:46] <kaushal> ok
[07:46] <kaushal> but it will be denoted by Z and not Ds ?
[07:46] <MartijnVdS> it can't be really removed from the process table because it's in uninterruptible sleep
[07:46] <MartijnVdS> the moment that gets fixed, it'll be properly dead
[07:46] <kaushal> as per man ps
[07:47] <kaushal> so zombie process are denoted by Z or Ds ?
[07:47] <kaushal> I mean defunct
[07:48] <MartijnVdS> kaushal: what's the output of "lsof -p x" (with "x" replaced with the dpkg pid(s))
[07:49] <MartijnVdS> kaushal: http://blog.notreally.org/2008/02/10/tricks-to-diagnose-processes-blocked-on-strong-io-in-linux/
[07:50] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/743979/
[07:50] <MartijnVdS> kaushal: I don't see anything strange in those..
[07:51] <MartijnVdS> I think a reboot might be the only option (and a hardware check, these things don't happen normally)
[07:56] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: can you point me to some docs about various Process states in ps table
[07:57] <kaushal> although man page does not help much
[07:59] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: thanks
[08:00] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: can partner repos be integrated with local ubuntu repos ?
[08:00] <kaushal> I am using debmirror
[08:39] <MooDoo> morning all
[09:01] <AlanBell> morning
[09:21] <Myrtti> I'm trying to eat my cupboards empty for some reason, or atleast try to get rid of soon to go out of date stuff
[09:21] <Myrtti> I didn't remember I had hazelnut Options sachets
[09:22] <AlanBell> still a place (possibly 2) for the christmas meal folks
[09:23]  * Myrtti feels sad for not being able to attend
[09:36] <popey> Morning
[10:01] <Seeker`> o/
[10:01] <nigelb> Morning popey!
[10:02] <nigelb> Wait, isn't it evening?
[10:02] <AlanBell> morning nigelb
[10:02] <nigelb> Ah right. I'm slightly easterly than normal :)
[10:02] <nigelb> Its 6 pm here
[10:02] <AlanBell> how is KL?
[10:02] <nigelb> It is amazing!
[10:02] <AlanBell> been up the petronas towers?
[10:02] <nigelb> Mozcamp just got over!
[10:03] <nigelb> I'm going to go tomorrow morning
[10:03] <nigelb> Tonight, we'll just roam around the Towers
[10:03] <nigelb> Tomorrow I'll try to get on the walkway
[10:03] <AlanBell> scary!
[10:04] <Myrtti> keep away from the hanging lights
[10:05] <nigelb> heh
[10:05] <nigelb> ok, its party time. We have about 6 hours of time to party! Laters everyone :)
[10:06] <AlanBell> o/
[10:19] <daubers> Morning
[10:46]  * Seeker` has been on registered on freenode for 5 years today :O
[10:50] <Myrtti> I'll reach my seveth year next month
[10:50] <Myrtti> so much wasted time and effort
[10:55] <dwatkins> There must also be good things about it, though.
[10:57] <Myrtti> true, I should try harder to find good things, today was a first time in a long time there was actual sunshine
[10:59] <dwatkins> we took delivery of a new fridge yesterday, but the landlord screwed-up and ordered one about 2/3rds the required size, but at least we don't have to put up with a noisy fridge any more.
[11:00] <mattt> sun?  there's no sun to be found anywhere around here
[11:01] <Myrtti> expecting first snow next week
[11:01] <dwatkins> We tend to get snow in January in Edinburgh.
[11:02] <dwatkins> I'd best get my parking permit sorted out so I can just take the bus to work each day, then it's someone else's problem to warm and de-ice the vehicle ;)
[11:04] <Myrtti> should I install something special to access my samba shares through nautilus?
[11:06] <dwatkins> Like a christmas metacity theme? ;)
[11:06] <dwatkins> I thought you could just go to a samba:/host/directory style address with it
[11:11] <Myrtti> "Unable to mount location: Failed to retrieve share list from server"
[11:13] <dwatkins> oh, it's smb://delta/mp3
[11:14] <gordonjcp> my landlord reminded me that it's about time to get the boiler serviced
[11:15] <gordonjcp> by the simple method of getting his son (who is a heating engineer) to pop down from the farm with his tools
[11:15] <gordonjcp> and I've got my 100kg of paving slabs ordered for the winter
[11:15] <gordonjcp> since it doesn't look like I'll be getting a front wheel drive van before december is out
[11:16] <dwatkins> shouldn't the landlord just service the boiler and install paving slabs?
[11:16] <mattt> Myrtti: snow?  wait, where?
[11:16] <mattt> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/mi80x/give_me_that_one_command_you_wish_you_knew_years/ <-- disown, what a beauty
[11:17] <gordonjcp> dwatkins: I live in a farm cottage, my landlord is the farmer
[11:17] <dwatkins> mattt: yeah, I was reading that thread, and thought the exact same thing :)
[11:17] <gordonjcp> dwatkins: one of his sons is a heating engineer and takes care of the boiler etc, his other son runs a building supplies place
[11:17] <mattt> dwatkins: ^5 ... love stuff like that :)
[11:17] <gordonjcp> dwatkins: the paving slabs go in a steel crate in the back of my van, strapped down over the rear axle
[11:17] <dwatkins> gordonjcp: oh handy :)
[11:18] <dwatkins> mattt: yeah, reddit is great for all sorts of things, and the fact you can join subreddits is superb
[11:18] <gordonjcp> this means that I can piss past all the bogged 4x4s on the roads
[11:18] <Myrtti> mattt: about 1000 miles from UK
[11:18] <mattt> Myrtti: which way?
[11:19] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[11:19] <gordonjcp> mattt: east, mostly
[11:19] <gordonjcp> I always forget how far north Finland is
[11:20] <gordonjcp> for some reason I keep thinking it's as far south as sweden
[11:21] <mattt> gordonjcp: would love to go up there to see northern lights!
[11:21] <gordonjcp> mattt: I've seen them from my place up north, that's only about 57 degrees
[11:21] <gordonjcp> mattt: you need a more active sun though
[11:22] <gordonjcp> we had a massive burst about a month ago, *all kinds* of aurora
[11:22] <mattt> gordonjcp: up north, as in ... shetland islands?  :)
[11:22] <gordonjcp> hugely overcast here but I was picking up lots of auroral propagation on VHF
[11:22] <gordonjcp> mattt: skye
[11:22] <gordonjcp> shetland is about 58 degrees
[11:23] <mattt> gordonjcp: oh, you're out that way too?
[11:23] <mattt> gordonjcp: did a nice drive through skye this august, was lovely :D
[11:23] <gordonjcp> mattt: yeah
[11:24] <gordonjcp> mattt: I'm just outside Glasgow at the moment but I grew up on Skye
[11:24] <gordonjcp> going up there later in the week actually
[11:24]  * mattt is jealous
[11:25]  * dwatkins lives in Edinburgh
[11:26] <mattt> krikey, half this channel is scottish :)
[11:26] <MooDoo> aye :)
[11:26] <MooDoo> lol
[11:26] <gordonjcp> funny to think that Copenhagen and Malmö are on the same latitude as Kilmarnock
[11:27] <dwatkins> I assume the Gulf stream makes it "warmer" in Scotland than similar latitudes elsewhere, e.g. Sweden or Canada
[11:28] <gordonjcp> dwatkins: yeah
[11:30] <Myrtti> Tampere is 61.5, 23.766667
[11:32] <Myrtti> I seem to be unable to hack Wolfram Alpha or Google to tell me how many miles/kilometres that is north from John O'Groates
[11:33] <mattt> gordonjcp: do you speak gaelic?
[11:42] <gordonjcp> mattt: a little
[12:01] <dwatkins> [B
[12:01] <dwatkins> oops
[12:06] <mattt> anyone run ubuntu on a macbook?
[12:07] <dwatkins> mattt: not yet, but I plan to - my other half installed Ubuntu on her MBP 15" (late 2009)
[12:09] <mattt> dwatkins: i upgraded to lion and performance has been horrible, figure if i'm reinstalling i may as well try ubuntu :D
[12:09] <dwatkins> mattt: I bootcamped recently to install WinXP, I imagine I'll have to start again for OSX/XP/Ubuntu, and definitely if I want to use Win7 on here.
[12:10] <dwatkins> mattt: does activity monitor not show CPU usage being high or something? What kind of performance issues?
[12:10] <mattt> i've never used bootcamp sadly, always just used os x
[12:10] <mattt> dwatkins: a whole lot of beachballin'
[12:10] <mattt> opening safari, doing anything seems to beach ball
[12:26] <czajkowski> aloha
[12:30] <dwatkins> mattt: I suspect there's another reason for that - I assume you've updated
[12:35] <mattt> dwatkins: yep, hence trying the fresh install
[12:36] <dwatkins> mattt: ah ok, if you've not already installed it, there's a lot you can do to diagnose with top, activity monitor, and dplace
[12:37] <dwatkins> oops, DTrace, I mean: http://www.brendangregg.com/DTrace/dtrace_oneliners.txt
[12:48] <Old-port> HI
[13:09] <jutnux> Any of you guys have a tablet?
[13:09] <jutnux> iPad, Galaxy Tab etc
[13:09] <mfraz74> i have an arnova 10 G2
[13:09] <jutnux> mfraz74: Any good?
[13:10] <jutnux> Looks like the Archos 101 :P
[13:10] <mfraz74> not too bad, using it right now
[13:10] <jutnux> Might get myself an Archos 101
[13:10] <jutnux> same specs as that
[13:11] <jutnux> Have to use ArcTools to get the market though
[13:11] <mfraz74> Maplin are selling it for £150
[13:11] <mfraz74> arctools doesn't work on the Arnova yet
[13:12] <jutnux> Ah right
[13:12] <jutnux> Think I'm going to get the Archos 101
[13:12] <mattt> dwatkins: haven't reinstalled yet, re-downloading lion, will try to diagnose a bit further before reinstalling
[13:13] <mfraz74> what size screen?
[13:13]  * mattt is afk for a bit
[13:13] <dwatkins> mattt: I'd be interested in knowing your results
[13:15] <jutnux> mfraz74: I only really want a tablet for quick browsing and things.
[13:16] <Myrtti> I'm on exopc right now
[13:17] <mfraz74> I 'm using it for browsing, chatting and playing games. beebdroid is a good beeb emulator
[13:19] <Old-port> hi
[13:19] <Old-port> i got this coin
[13:19] <Old-port> i think its english
[13:19] <Old-port> http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8878/dp100423.jpg
[13:19] <Old-port> old coin
[13:20] <Old-port> even though tis latin
[13:20] <Old-port> it says BRITANNIARUM
[13:20] <Old-port> which sorta sounds like britain
[13:21] <Old-port> http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6057/dp100424.jpg
[13:21] <Old-port> thats the back face
[13:21] <Old-port> is that english?
[13:24] <Myrtti> looks like a commemorative coin
[13:24] <Myrtti> and latin
[13:25] <jacobw> george 3
[13:25] <jutnux> George the 3rd
[13:25] <Old-port> is it
[13:25]  * dwatkins notes Myrtti has awesome powers in the ubuntu channel
[13:26] <Old-port> quite an appetite he had that fella
[13:26] <Myrtti> dwatkins: I have awesome powers on a lot of channels
[13:26] <Myrtti> including this :-)
[13:26] <dwatkins> I'm not going to doubt that ;)
[13:27] <Old-port> is this a real english currency??
[13:27] <Myrtti> Old-port: doubt it
[13:27] <Old-port> whys that
[13:27] <Myrtti> currency tends to have something to tell the value of it
[13:27] <Old-port> yea
[13:27] <jutnux> http://netcoins.co.uk/details/475
[13:27] <Old-port> i dunno latin though
[13:27] <Old-port> it might tell the value
[13:27] <Old-port> is it english?
[13:27] <Old-port> at all
[13:28] <Old-port> was this guy your king at somepoint?
[13:28] <Myrtti> yup
[13:28] <jutnux> Yah
[13:28] <Myrtti> well, not mine, but Britons ;-)
[13:28] <Old-port> is he the queens great grandfather?
[13:28] <Old-port> or something like that?
[13:30] <Old-port> i bet its got good value
[13:30] <Old-port> 200 year old
[13:30] <Old-port> i think its gold though im not sure
[13:30] <Myrtti> well it just said on the website someone gave a link to that a good condition one is nearly £700
[13:30] <jutnux> Myrtti: If this is a W Wyon one
[13:31] <jutnux> It'll be worth more
[13:31] <Old-port> what link ?
[13:31] <Myrtti> ah, yes, the reverse is different
[13:31] <Old-port> the one jutnux posted?
[13:31] <Old-port> it doesnt look even remotely similar
[13:31] <Old-port> both faces are completely different
[13:31] <Old-port> those coins are different in every way
[13:32] <jutnux> I can only find a gold one
[13:32] <jutnux> http://www.antique-marks.com/george-iii-silver-crown.html
[13:32] <jutnux> Silver one I mean
[13:32] <jutnux> £10,000 - £15,000 apparently.
[13:32] <Old-port> wheres the picture
[13:32] <jutnux> On the page
[13:32] <jutnux> I think yours might not be real though, don't know.
[13:32] <Old-port> yeah that does look better
[13:32] <Old-port> though the backside is all wrong
[13:33] <Old-port> and this ones definitely silver
[13:33] <jutnux> Oh it looks gold
[13:33] <Myrtti> http://netcoins.co.uk/details/690
[13:34] <Old-port> that does look more like it
[13:34] <Old-port> i really wish they had better quality images though
[13:34] <jutnux> Old-port: Why not take it to a coin specialist? :P
[13:35] <Old-port> Myrtti, this one isnt identical
[13:35] <Old-port> look at the  position of the head
[13:35] <Old-port> different text too
[13:35] <Old-port> jutnux, yeah thats a possibility
[13:36] <jutnux> Mass split, woo
[13:38] <Old-port> lol
[13:39] <Old-port> http://legacy.stacks.com/Lot/ItemDetail/46523
[13:39] <Old-port> oh dear
[13:39] <jutnux> How much does yours weigh?
[13:40] <Old-port> no idea
[13:40] <Old-port> its got some weigh onto it
[13:40] <jutnux> You can only hope ;)
[13:40] <Old-port> they look identical in every way
[13:41] <jutnux> I found a stopwatch
[13:41] <jutnux> and it was worth £85,000 if it was real
[13:41] <jutnux> but it was copper coated in gold :(
[13:41] <jutnux> £4.60
[13:41] <jutnux> :'(
[13:41] <Old-port> mine actually looks better than this
[13:41] <Old-port> i need a weight
[13:41] <Old-port> and i need one of those gold test kits
[13:42] <Old-port> one of 7 known
[13:42] <Old-port> lol
[13:42] <Old-port> one of 8 lets hope
[13:42] <Old-port> Proof 63 Ultra Cameo
[13:42] <Old-port> thats some kind of grading i presume
[13:43] <Old-port> wow
[13:43] <Old-port> this is unbelievable
[13:44] <Old-port> mine looks so much better than theirs  i gotta tell you
[13:44] <Old-port> maybe its the camera
[13:45] <jutnux> Probably :p
[13:45] <jutnux> If you get rich, loan me £300 ;)
[13:50] <Old-port> lol
[14:00] <Myrtti> well that was a nice sunshine
[14:00] <gordonjcp> it's pissing down now
[14:00] <Myrtti> yeah, and I'm talking in past tense
[14:00] <Myrtti> sun just went down
[14:01] <gordonjcp> this is going to make barbecueing awkward
[14:01] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: yeah, not sunset for another hour here, not that you'd notice
[14:03] <Myrtti> apparently it went down half an hour ago
[14:03] <gordonjcp> it's been sunny all weekend
[14:03] <gordonjcp> I bet it'll be sunny next week too
[14:04] <Myrtti> gordonjcp: wolfram alpha claims the sun goes down in two hours and twenty odd minutes :-P
[14:04] <Myrtti> still plenty of time
[14:05] <gordonjcp> man, the barbecue is filling with water
[14:05] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: I guess it depends on local terrain
[14:05] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: if you had it totally flat to sea level to the west you might have the sun for another two hours
[14:06] <jutnux> gordonjcp: I tried to cook a pizza on a bbq before, rest assured it ended up nearly burning the house down.
[14:06] <jutnux> The oven was broken.
[14:06] <jutnux> Burning the shed down even.
[14:06] <gordonjcp> jutnux: I thought about decamping to one of the farm sheds
[14:06] <gordonjcp> maybe I'll go to B&Q and get a tarpaulin
[14:06] <jutnux> Good idea.
[14:11] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Dan Fish] Recycle, Recycle, Recycle - http://www.ossmedicine.org/uncategorized/11/recycle-recycle-recycle/
[14:16] <popey> jutnux: you asked if anyone has a tablet, i have an ipad and an asus transformer on the way
[14:17] <MooDoo> afternoon all
[14:17] <popey> yo
[14:20] <mfraz74> afternoon popey
[14:32] <jutnux> popey: Is the transformer any good?
[14:33] <jutnux> Never mind, you don't have it.
[14:33] <jutnux> Hahaha.
[14:35] <popey> dunno, ask me in two days ☺
[14:35] <jutnux> I shall.
[14:35] <jutnux> I'm getting an Archos 101.
[14:40] <jutnux> Toast sandwich is calling me, brb.
[14:48] <jutnux> Back
[14:55] <jutnux> Nom.
[15:04] <Myrtti> how do I know if I'm using 802.11n or something else?
[15:04] <Myrtti> from the Bit Rate iwconfig gives?
[15:08] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: "iw wlan0 link" will tell you I think
[15:09] <jacobw> when is usc going to price in gbp?
[15:13] <Myrtti> MartijnVdS: I get the same information I got from iwconfig
[15:14]  * Myrtti checks wikipedia
[15:14] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: I don't think there's really a "connection is 802.11n" flag then -- it's just all implicit based on connection speeds (and modulations)
[15:14] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: but I've been known to be wrong in matters of wifi :)
[16:19] <MooDoo> yo!
[17:49] <mattt> alright, putting ubuntu on my macbook pro looks like too much work :/
[17:54] <popey> insert cd, boot from cd, do install
[17:54] <popey> thats what I did
[18:05] <mattt> popey: when critical things like wireless don't work, i wonder if it's worth the effort :P
[18:05] <popey> which mbp?
[18:06] <mattt> 8,1
[18:06] <popey> what wifi card does it have?
[18:06] <popey> broadcom ?
[18:06] <mattt> checking
[18:06] <mattt> BCM43xx (broadcom)
[18:06] <popey> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro8-1/Natty#Wireless
[18:06] <popey> yeah, looks annoying
[18:07] <mattt> will have a look, but afk for the minute
[18:07] <mattt> thanks popey
[18:07] <popey> np
[18:10] <Myrtti> huu
[18:11] <Myrtti> meh
[18:11] <Myrtti> I'm a bit annoyed with 11.10 having 3.0 kernel :-<
[18:11] <Myrtti> all the instructions to get the tablet working as it should are for 11.04 or 2.x kernels
[18:15] <Myrtti> don't know should I do something with http://www.broadcom.com/support/crystal_hd/ or not
[18:24] <Myrtti> hm
[18:25] <Myrtti> linux-firmware-nonfree seems to have it already
[18:26] <popey> Myrtti: which tablet? exopc?
[18:29] <gord> not much supports crystal HD though, i think xbmc had work done for it
[19:14] <Myrtti> gord: confusing information: freedesktop.org claims vaapi supports it, and that several players support vaapi
[19:15] <Myrtti> AND WHY DOESN'T ANY VIDEOLAN'S WEBPAGE WORK
[19:15] <Myrtti> garrrhghghghghg
[19:18] <gord> ack that is confusing, well maybe things will work great :)
[19:19] <Myrtti> thank deity for text-only google cache
[19:19] <Myrtti> ♥
[19:19] <brobostigon> google.com/latitude is 404'ing here, :(
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: didn't they replace that with Plus?
[19:20] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: it worked yesterday. and i havent heard anything of that happening, if so, how do i access it?
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> They might just have messed something up
[19:21] <brobostigon> more than likely.
[19:22] <Myrtti> ok, what's the difference between libva-glx1, libva-tpi1 and libva-x11-1?
[19:23] <dwatkins> I imagine the glx one is for accelerated environments and the x11 one doesn't depend on anything more than a "2D capable" graphics card, Myrtti.
[19:24] <brobostigon> works now, much better.
[19:24] <dwatkins> brobostigon: ah cool, I just tested and it works for me now too
[19:24] <Myrtti> dwatkins: if you could see my face right now, you could be greeted by a blank stare
[19:24] <brobostigon> dwatkins: who knows what happened, maybe dns update issue?
[19:25] <Myrtti> so if I've got Unity running just fine and compositing works etc, I could run, say, the glx one?
[19:25] <popey> Myrtti: apparently the payware fluendo codec pack supports vaapi
[19:25] <dwatkins> Myrtti: I suspect so, yes, especially if you have nvidia or ati drivers installed
[19:25] <Myrtti> popey: I know
[19:26] <Myrtti> I'm not ready to part for the amount of money they are asking just to get HD video if I can try other tricks first
[19:27] <dwatkins> HD video is the same resolution my monitor has ten years ago.
[19:27] <dwatkins> Granted my computer couldn't play fullscreen video at that rate back then, but still.
[19:28] <AlanBell> evening all
[19:28] <brobostigon> good evening AlanBell
[19:31] <popey> Good evening AlanBell
[19:31] <popey> Myrtti: got a link to tech specs of that tablet?
[19:32] <Myrtti> hohum.
[19:32] <Myrtti> I give up
[19:32] <Myrtti> popey: sure, I'll find a link.
[19:33] <Myrtti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ExoPC%20-or-%20WeTab%20multi-touch%20tablets
[19:33] <mgdm>   evening all
[19:33] <Myrtti> the irony of the location of that list doesn't escape me
[19:34] <Myrtti> supports 64-bit... ho hum
[19:34] <Myrtti> oh well, I was going to reinstall sometime soonish anyway
[19:35] <popey> oh, its the wetab
[19:35]  * mgdm is reading http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/mi80x/give_me_that_one_command_you_wish_you_knew_years/
[19:35] <mgdm> lots of nice bash/zsh trickery
[19:36] <Myrtti> popey: wetab with the CrystalHD and 64GB SSD
[19:40] <Myrtti> just asking a friend who works for Canonical if he'd be able to do anything if I can somehow get him one
[19:40] <Myrtti> Tampere has a high frequency of these things after Intel AppUp event in April
[19:43] <popey> wow, they're hideous inside
[19:47] <AlanBell> dear banshee, if you take 349% of my CPU and stay there you will be killed. http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/fear%20the%20banshee.png
[19:48] <popey> mattt: https://plus.google.com/u/1/100568396676405064966/posts/2yqi7hQiH8H
[19:48] <popey> timing ☺
[19:49] <bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
[19:51] <popey> pip pip
[19:51] <bigcalm> Afternoon naps are a great
[19:51] <bigcalm> Am I getting old?
[19:58]  * AlanBell is done with banshee and tangerine
[19:59] <AlanBell> forked-daapd and rhythmbox work fine
[20:00] <mgdm> Rhythmbox \o/
[20:03] <bigcalm> Spotify \o/
[20:03] <popey> \o/ Spotify
[20:03] <Myrtti> updating xserver from edgers... mmmmmm feeling a bit scared of "Do you want to continue [Y/n]
[20:04] <Myrtti> I don't know if I do
[20:04] <bigcalm> It would be interesting if apt-get were to say "I'm feeling a bit scared about this. Do you want to continue [Y/n]"
[20:05] <mgdm> Or just "I'm sorry, I can't do that, Dave."
[20:05] <mgdm> which you could then override by running with sudo...
[20:05] <Myrtti> "Daisy, Daisy"
[20:06] <Myrtti> "Give me your answer do..."
[20:07] <Myrtti> ahahhahah "Apple's iPhone assistant, Siri, repeats part of the chorus when prompted to sing a song."
[20:08] <mattt> popey: 10-4 on the link, thank you
[20:18] <AlanBell> bigcalm: popey so are you running spotify under wine?
[20:18] <AlanBell> or the premium version for Linux?
[20:19]  * BigRedS votes for spotify in rhythmbox
[20:23] <buzz_> AlanBell, the linux native version now works with free accounts
[20:23] <AlanBell> oh, I had a look yesterday and it didn't seem to, said they couldn't reliably play adverts in it or something
[20:23] <buzz_> im still running it under wine though on jolios
[20:24] <buzz_> oh. well ive not tried it. i read it did just recently
[20:24] <AlanBell> I think I am fine with just my CDs
[20:24] <AlanBell> I haven't listened to any of them for about 10 years
[20:27] <ivanka> hello!
[20:28] <AlanBell> ivanka: \o/
[20:28] <AlanBell> how is the bike going?
[20:28] <ivanka> hello AlanBell!
[20:28] <ivanka> Brilliant - am in Panama
[20:28] <AlanBell> got a hat?
[20:28] <ivanka> finally finally managed to get a stable enough connection to upgrade :-)
[20:28] <ivanka> no hat :(
[20:28] <AlanBell> seen the canal?
[20:28] <ivanka> yup - very very interesting
[20:28]  * AlanBell has now fully run out of panama knowledge
[20:29] <czajkowski> http://fosdem.org/2012/  75 days to FOSDEM
[20:29] <ivanka> AlanBell: don't worry, I think that is all there is to it
[20:29] <czajkowski> ivanka: you're back
[20:29] <ivanka> AlanBell: apart from lovely nature and tropical type stuff
[20:29]  * czajkowski hugs ivanka
[20:29] <ivanka> czajkowski: not back - in Panama - but online :-)
[20:29] <czajkowski> tease!
[20:30] <ivanka> Wanting some help though, my webcam has stopped working and I can't find anything in the forums that looks useful - who is good to ask?
[20:30] <ivanka> czajkowski: sorry to be a tease
[20:32] <czajkowski> ivanka: asked in -desktop for some help, but tis the weekend so not many alive
[20:32] <AlanBell> what webcam?
[20:32] <ivanka> czajkowski: ok - will add - but just noticed that it started working...
[20:32]  * ivanka hangs head in an embarrassed way
[20:33] <czajkowski> meh happens to us all
[20:33] <czajkowski> at least it's working
[20:33] <ivanka> czajkowski: yeah
[20:33] <ivanka> best go and try my mum again :-)
[20:33] <czajkowski> cool
[20:33] <czajkowski> take care remember to blog :)
[20:34] <ivanka> czajkowski: you not checking bootsboatsandbikes.co.uk?
[20:34] <ivanka> czajkowski: hang on - going to reboot
[20:36] <czajkowski> eh no
[20:36] <czajkowski> feck was checking your blog
[20:36] <bigcalm> AlanBell: I have the expensive account and run the native client. Didn't know it didn't work for free accounts
[20:37] <czajkowski> ohhhh lotta reading to catch up on
[20:42] <AlanBell> not sure if I get on well enough with music any more to pay for it
[20:43] <Myrtti> AlanBell: since you're there
[20:43] <Myrtti> would you happen to know a trick to reset the location of onboard?
[20:43] <AlanBell> oh dear, it isn't off screen to the right is it?
[20:43] <Myrtti> oh yeah.
[20:44] <AlanBell> :(
[20:45] <Myrtti> can't see 0 or z :-(
[20:46] <AlanBell> bug 885608
[20:46] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 885608 in onboard (Ubuntu) "if you manage to get onboard move button offscreen you can't get it back" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/885608
[20:46] <AlanBell> turn off force to top
[20:47] <AlanBell> if that doesn't work I can give you a hack to the SVG layout to make one of the buttons on the left into a move button
[20:48] <Myrtti> phew
[20:48] <AlanBell> Myrtti: did you see the model m layout got merged in?
[20:48] <Myrtti> that was a relief
[20:48] <Myrtti> AlanBell: I did, and I had a hearty laugh
[20:48] <AlanBell> and the typist layout I did
[20:52] <AlanBell> ooh it now has an option to autohide when not editing text
[20:53] <AlanBell> which works
[21:07] <DJones> Anybody having problems with twitter tonight?#
[21:07] <ubuntubhoy> nope, but I use tweetdeck rather than twitter page
[21:08] <DJones> Seems a bit flaky at the minute, website timing out, gwibber & polly losing connection
[21:10] <ubuntubhoy> dont like gwibber either
[21:17] <AlanBell> !ping | AlanBell
[21:17] <lubotu3`> AlanBell, please see my private message
[21:18] <bigcalm> Ding dong
[21:18] <AlanBell> bit of irssi fixing
[21:19] <AlanBell> hilight window had got all messed up and some lines at the bottom of the screen were not working right, really odd
[21:22] <DJones> AlanBell: Did you join a new channel while you where in your hilight window?
[21:22] <AlanBell> don't think so, it seemed stranger than when that happens
[21:48] <bigcalm> This is making me want to play Zelda http://open.spotify.com/track/6sZmgTsyiF9ObnEniMISIc
[22:12] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Appreciation Day - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/20/ubuntu-appreciation-day/
[22:16] <Azelphur> bought a laptop off a company in London, the touch screen was DOA so I sent it back, it's been 3 months and they havn't returned the laptop or my money. Any suggestions on what the next move is? :(
[22:17] <Azelphur> they keep making excuses, first it was "The touch screen is an optional extra" then it was "Our suppliers shipment is held up" then it was "The manager has gone on Holiday to get married and nobody has authority to order parts" then "The manager extended his holiday" -.-
[22:18] <mgdm> start quoting regulations
[22:18] <mgdm> Distance Selling Act might be relevant
[22:19] <Azelphur> somehow I don't think quoting regulations will help, they arn't disputing that they need to do it, they are just making excuses as to why they can't do it
[22:19] <mgdm> that doesn't change the law
[22:20] <tonytiger> Trading Standards too
[22:20] <mgdm> a failure of their organisational skills shouldn't require that you're left otu of pocket
[22:20] <tonytiger> Tell them you want it fixed and returned within X days or a full refund
[22:23] <Azelphur> what's a good X, 7?
[22:23] <mgdm> sounds fair
[22:29] <bigcalm> Working days?
[22:30] <bigcalm> Oh, good evening peeoples
[22:31] <dwatkins> Azelphur: tell the manufacturer?I bought an ASUS laptop which has some dead pixels on the display, I sent it back to the company I bought it from and they refused to do anything, so I sent it to the manufacturer - they replaced the screen (or at least the panel) and gave me a hair trapped just under the camera
[22:31] <dwatkins> I'd ask them to just send it back so you can send it on to the manufacturer, Azelphur.
[22:31] <Azelphur> dwatkins: it's a refurb
[22:32] <dwatkins> ah


[05:03] <pitti> Good morning
[05:11] <TheMuso> Morning pitti.
[05:15] <pitti> hey TheMuso, how are you?
[05:15] <TheMuso> pitti: Not too bad thanks, yourself?
[05:15] <pitti> pretty good, looking forward to releasing A1 today
[05:16] <pitti> TheMuso: do you have a sec for some bug questions?
[05:16] <TheMuso> pitti: Sure.
[05:16] <pitti> TheMuso: so it seems bug 790240 made some progress, there's just one package left
[05:16] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 790240 in java-access-bridge "at-spi needs demotion for precise (at-spi2-core in main)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/790240
[05:16] <pitti> java-access-bridge
[05:16] <pitti> do you know the status of getting that to at-spi2?
[05:16] <TheMuso> pitti: java-atk-wrapper replaces java-access-bridge.
[05:17] <pitti> ah, so we need to MIR that
[05:17] <TheMuso> I filed an MIR< and it was approved.
[05:17] <pitti> nice
[05:17] <TheMuso> It just needs something to depend on it, i.e openjdk.
[05:17] <pitti> TheMuso: can openjdk-6-jre be changed to use that then?
[05:17] <pitti> it currently depends on libaccess-bridge-java-jni
[05:17] <pitti> and so does openjdk-7-jre
[05:18] <TheMuso> So far as I understand, yes. I'd need to find some java app that works via accessibility to be sure.
[05:18] <TheMuso> pitti: Yeah I believe that java-atk-wrapper is a drop-in replacement.
[05:18] <pitti> TheMuso: nice! are you on this and coordinating with doko?
[05:19] <TheMuso> pitti: I've talked to doko about it, but no actino has been made on this yet.
[05:20] <pitti> TheMuso: we just need to swap the dependency?
[05:20] <TheMuso> pitti: Yes.
[05:21] <pitti> TheMuso: ok, thanks
[05:21] <TheMuso> np
[05:27] <pitti> TheMuso: my other question is about bug 810721
[05:27] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 810721 in at-spi "at-spi-registryd crashed with SIGSEGV in gconf_client_get_default()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/810721
[05:27] <pitti> this is apparently fixed in at-spi2
[05:27] <pitti> but it sounded like the fix could be adapted to at-spi as well
[05:28] <pitti> it's probably not that important for precise any more, though?
[06:26] <didrocks> good morning
[06:30] <pitti> hey didrocks
[06:31] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti, how are you?
[06:31] <pitti> I'm quite fine, thanks! how about you?
[06:31] <pitti> looking forward to releasing A1
[06:34] <didrocks> I'm fine, thanks! I think I finally almost got over the flu. Was quite sticky this time :)
[06:40] <pitti> eek, that took a looong time!
[06:43] <didrocks> indeed, I guess all this busy week-end didn't help to cure
[06:43] <didrocks> but since the week before UDS, I will have my first real week-end now :)
[06:51] <pitti> eek, that took a looong time!
[06:51] <pitti> oops, -EFOCUS
[08:40] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[08:46] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[08:46] <chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
[08:46] <pitti> quite fine, thanks!
[08:50] <didrocks> good morning chrisccoulson!
[08:50] <didrocks> how are you?
[08:50] <chrisccoulson> hi didrocks
[08:51] <chrisccoulson> i'm good thanks, how are you?
[08:51] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm fine thanks :)
[08:51] <chrisccoulson> ooh, todays firefox daily is built already. time to upgrade and hopefully it's usable again :)
[08:53] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: btw, I see a lot of changes in thunderbird theme right now
[08:53] <didrocks> like, the left treeview is grey now
[08:53] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, that's intentional
[08:53] <chrisccoulson> there aren't any other changes are there?
[08:53] <didrocks> ok, just to ensure :)
[08:54] <didrocks> well, thread with new messages are underlined
[08:54] <didrocks> instead of being bold
[08:54] <didrocks> I think this is a new thunerbird feature
[08:54] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i noticed that too. i can't remember whether that was the case before though :)
[08:54] <chrisccoulson> i thought that something looked different in the thread pane
[08:54] <didrocks> it wasn't I guess
[08:54] <didrocks> as I've been shocked as well :)
[08:55] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, you're on precise now aren't you?
[08:55] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: indeed
[08:55] <chrisccoulson> ok, so you're running the same version as me :)
[08:56] <chrisccoulson> i keep thinking about running thunderbird daily builds, but i'm not sure i'm brave enough yet
[08:56] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: not on precise yet? :)
[08:56] <didrocks> heh
[09:07] <TheMuso> pitti: Not for precise, no.
[09:09] <seb128> hey
[09:09] <pitti> hey seb128
[09:10] <seb128> pitti, howdy, how are you?
[09:11] <pitti> seb128: I'm great, thanks!
[09:14] <chrisccoulson> when can i start uploading again? :)
[09:14] <chrisccoulson> i've got new firefox and thunderbird beta releases to do
[09:15] <pitti> waiting for a kubuntu alternate result, but will time out for that RSN
[09:16] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I think I'll do a cut in two hours and lift the freeze
[09:16] <chrisccoulson> pitti - cool, thanks
[09:18] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
[09:18] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128. yeah, i'm good thanks, how are you?
[09:19] <seb128> I'm good thanks!
[09:22] <TheMuso> pitti, seb128, is the GTK 3.3/3.4 API anywhere close to being frozen yet? I think I may need to propose an extension to the GtkMenuItem API to help with some dbusmenu a11y work I'm doing.
[09:23] <seb128> TheMuso, no quite close
[09:23] <seb128> TheMuso, you should talk to desrt, he's working on landing the gmenu stuff upstream and make it used in gtk
[09:24] <TheMuso> seb128: Right, will catch him in the morning then.
[09:24] <seb128> TheMuso, which is going to be used then in dbusmenu (but probably not for the lts)
[09:24] <TheMuso> Right.
[09:25] <seb128> pitti, did you look at,fix the retracers?
[09:25] <pitti> seb128: oh, are they broken again? I didn't get amil
[09:25] <pitti> mail
[09:26] <seb128> pitti, they don't seem so but I'm looking at a i386 apport bug opened 8 hours ago which is not retraced yet and I was wondering why
[09:26] <seb128> pitti, do we retrace precise yet?
[09:26] <pitti> ah, I think I know why
[09:26] <pitti> ERROR: KernelCrash processing not implemented yet
[09:27] <pitti> 12/01/11 09:17:07: retracing #897539 failed with status: 99
[09:27] <pitti> seb128: yes, since day 1 :)
[09:27] <seb128> retrace pool now: set([897539, 898501, 898207, 898155, 898412, 898171, 897747, 898423, 898456, 898043, 898431])
[09:27] <seb128> pitti, it doesn't go to the next one? just bail out on the kernel one?
[09:27] <pitti> apparently so
[09:28] <seb128> pitti, ok, so I've my reply ;-)
[09:28] <seb128> pitti, should I just untag that or do you want to properly look at the "bug" to make it skip the kernel bug and continue with the next one rather than bailing out?
[09:28] <pitti> seb128: already at it
[09:28] <seb128> pitti, thanks!
[09:28] <pitti> aaaand committed
[09:28] <seb128> lol
[09:29] <seb128> that's efficient ;-)
[09:29] <pitti> and pulled
[09:29] <pitti> next run should be good
[09:29] <seb128> pitti: "made of awesome" ;-)
[09:29] <pitti> "no time like the present" :)
[09:29] <pitti> seb128: fortunately a1 looks pretty good, so I'm currently working on stable+1 stuff
[09:29] <pitti> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/main-promotions.svg FYI
[09:29] <seb128> pitti, oh, right, you start your rotation today
[09:29] <seb128> enjoy!
[09:30] <pitti> to make http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt easier to read
[09:30] <pitti> seb128: thanks!
[09:30] <seb128> pitti, nice one ;-)
[09:31] <seb128> pitti, that could probably be ueful for pedro as well, he's working on a dashboard for the desktop team, I suggested that he could include the packages not building and the components mismatch for desktopish packages on it
[09:53] <glatzor> hello seb128 pitti and mvo
[09:54] <glatzor> mvo: I prepared a patch for the akward aptdaemon dialog sizes https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aptdaemon/+bug/892607
[09:54] <pitti> hey glatzor, how are you?
[09:54] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 892607 in aptdaemon "Details window poorly resizes on expanded details" [High,Confirmed]
[09:54] <glatzor> pitti, Having a cold. but otherwise fine! yourself?
[09:54] <pitti> glatzor: I'm great
[09:54] <pitti> thanks
[10:05] <mvo> glatzor: awsome, thanks! I take care of this now
[10:08] <seb128> hey glatzor, mvo
[10:08] <mvo> glatzor: precise upload will have to wait for alpha1, but oneiric is fine for a SRU
[10:10] <mvo> glatzor: hm, does not seem to apply cleanly against the oneiric version, lets see
[12:30] <pitti> @ALL: soft freeze lifted, upload away
[12:30] <pitti> mvo, seb128 ^
[12:30] <seb128> pitti, danke!
[12:30] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ^
[12:30] <didrocks> go go go :)
[12:31] <chrisccoulson> pitti, excellent, thanks
[12:31] <mvo> cool! thanks!
[12:43] <nessita> hello everyone!
[12:43] <mpt> mvo, hi, do you think <https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-improve-upgrade-experience> should be targeted for P?
[12:43] <pitti> hey nessita, how are you?
[12:43] <nessita> pitti: pretty good! you? :-)
[12:43] <pitti> nessita: I'm fine, thanks!
[12:44]  * mpt waves to nessita
[12:44] <nessita> hi mpt!
[12:48] <mvo> mpt: yes, but someone from the desktop team should approve it if its a desktop spec
[12:49] <mvo> mpt: should be all really reasonable
[12:49] <mpt> mvo, as in jasoncwarner_?
[12:49] <mvo> mpt: yeah, jason or maybe pitti
[12:50] <mpt> pitti has the advantage of being here now :-)
[12:53] <pitti> mvo: accepted for precise, set myself as approver (I generally approve desktop-* stuff); once you are happy with it, please set it to "review" or "pending approval"
[12:54] <seb128> well, approving is one thing, having somebody working on it is another... mvo? ;-)
[12:54] <pitti> yes, the WIs are between mvo and mpt
[12:54] <pitti> mvo: NB that there is a rather invalidly looking Work item "- If the OS is no longer supported, "Don't Upgrade" does the same thing as..."
[12:58] <pitti> Sweetshark: you said that you had a precise libo for sponsoring? I don't see it in ~bjoern/
[12:58] <pitti> Sweetshark: freeze is lifted now, so we can upload
[12:58]  * pitti -> lunch
[13:05]  * rodrigo_ lunch
[13:11] <GunnarHj> seb128, pitti: Hi guys! Any news about accountsservice, region property and GNOME?
[13:12] <seb128> hey GunnarHj, hum, no, but good that you are there earlier than the other days ;-)
[13:12] <seb128> we can probably catch pitti when he's back from lunch and then mclasen
[13:14] <GunnarHj> seb128: Ok. I haven't much time today, though, just half an hour or so.
[13:15] <seb128> GunnarHj, well, thanks for the reminder, pitti just went for lunch but I will talk to him about that when he's back
[13:15] <GunnarHj> seb128: Great. Can you please ping me then?
[13:15] <seb128> GunnarHj, will do
[13:25] <Sweetshark> pitti: uploading
[14:03] <pitti> re
[14:07] <pitti> chrisccoulson: mozjs going to universe is ok?
[14:08] <chrisccoulson> pitti, yeah, that's fine by me :)
[14:11] <nessita> is mterry coming today?
[14:12]  * nessita is desperately chasing patch pilots
[14:18] <Sweetshark> pitti: upload finished
[14:18] <pitti> Sweetshark: thanks! (BTW, you don't need the orig.tar, they are already in the archive)
[14:21] <dobey> what's with all these mails on devel-discuss about unity and classic?
[14:21] <dobey> nessita: what do you need a sponsor for?
[14:22] <nessita> dobey: the qt4reactor initual packaging branch
[14:23] <dobey> oh
[14:24] <seb128> nessita, hey, you managed to summon him it seems :p
[14:24] <dobey> hehe
[14:24] <nessita> seb128: pathc pilots run away from me :-.
[14:24] <nessita> :-/
[14:25] <dobey> pitti: can you push the libubuntuone in oneiric-proposed to oneiric-updates? it's been sitting in proposed for 5 weeks, apparently due some confusion on the bug between it and banshee, as the fix is 2-part :(
[14:25] <seb128> nessita, did you hear back from skaet or mdeslaur yesterday about the license issue?
[14:26] <nessita> seb128: nopes, last thing was that skaet was gonna check, but no news on that front
[14:26] <pitti> Sweetshark: thanks, uploaded
[14:26] <seb128> nessita, check with skaet maybe then before chasing a sponsor, that license issue needs to be sorted first
[14:27] <nessita> seb128: right
[14:27] <dobey> what is the license issue?
[14:27] <pitti> dobey: bug 851044 hasn't been formally verified, but I guess it's been tested enough now, and the other bug is; moving
[14:27] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 851044 in libubuntuone "Banshee.exe crashed with SIGABRT in g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__VOID() / while using Ubuntu 1 Store." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851044
[14:28] <dobey> pitti: ah, that bug was also fixed in webkit; but i also changed libubuntuone to not crash, when the webkit fix isn't present
[14:29] <dobey> and i had forgotten that bug was also linked to the update; i got pinged about the other bug yesterday, and didn't realize it was still sitting in proposed :(
[14:30] <mdeslaur> dobey: twisted is MIT, qt4reactor is MIT, but pyqt is GPL
[14:30] <mdeslaur> dobey: twisted doesn't ship qt4reactor because they say it's a licensing issue
[14:30] <dobey> oh
[14:31] <dobey> so qt4reactor needs to be GPL; and either way twisted can't ship it
[14:31] <seb128> mterry, welcome back!
[14:31] <dobey> which is odd
[14:32] <mterry> seb128, :)  Don't load me up yet though, I'm on pilot duty today
[14:32] <mdeslaur> dobey: it's complicated because it's python, but a library, and can be a "derivative work", etc.
[14:32] <pitti> mvo: can you please change software-center's depends for python-gobject -> python-gi? (upload isn't urgent at all, storing to bzr is fine)
[14:32] <seb128> mterry, yeah don't worry, feel free to ping if you need or want work though, I've plenty of small things and bugs, I'm sure you can like some of those ;-)
[14:33] <cyphermox> howdy
[14:33] <dobey> mdeslaur: right, though i think the GPL is clear in it's viral nature; if pyqt changed to LGPL, it wouldn't be a problem though
[14:34] <cyphermox> seb128: same thing, any small things/small bugs you want me to look at before I dive into NM to start my work items?
[14:34] <mterry> seb128, I need to also catch up on my own work items from being a month away.  I probably will not pursue extra work for a bit.  But I can gladly grab things for you if you have an excess
[14:34] <dobey> pitti: i take it that's a debian change, not an upstream package renaming?
[14:34] <nessita> dobey: why qt4reactor needs to be GPL? it import pyqt on a try-except, and it defaults to pyside if pyqt is not present
[14:34] <mdeslaur> dobey: yep, but pyqt isn't going to do that :) that's why there's pyside
[14:34] <pitti> dobey: right; it only ships the "gi" module now, so it's more appropriate and actually adheres to the python policy
[14:34] <seb128> cyphermox, hey, I didn't even notice you were in +1 until yesterday when pitti said you were coming back ;-)
[14:35] <dobey> mdeslaur: right
[14:35] <cyphermox> I know...
[14:35] <pitti> dobey: also, this will actually allow us to see which packages still need GI migration
[14:35] <cyphermox> but then is that good or bad? ;)
[14:35] <dobey> nessita: because pyqt is GPL; try/except doesn't really matter
[14:35] <seb128> cyphermox, mterry: you guys should do an after +1 blog post of summary or something, I would be interested to know what +1 did during its first month ;-)
[14:35] <pitti> seb128: cjwatson sent a summary, but only to some people in private; perhaps he should re-send that to u-devel@
[14:35] <pitti> it was really interesting, but of course I don't want to send it on his behalf
[14:36] <dobey> pitti: yeah; would be nice if GI actually provided all the API though. and if upstream weren't so obnoxious
[14:36] <pitti> heh
[14:36] <seb128> pitti, ok, thanks, I would be really interested to see what people are doing then, I guess it would be useful as well for other who consider doing a rotation there ;-)
[14:36] <seb128> cjwatson, ^
[14:37] <nessita> dobey: ok, so I'm lost. The qt4reactor code itself is MIT, so we can't change it to GPL. You mean the packaging code I'm adding should be GPL?
[14:37] <dobey> nessita: i mean upstream needs to fix the licensing problem
[14:38] <dobey> nessita: and technically, we can actually release it as GPL; but it really should be done as an upstream change
[14:38] <dobey> nessita: or well, it can just drop pyqt and only use pyside, but i'm sure you wouldn't like that :)
[14:38] <mdeslaur> dobey: but then it's used by twisted, which is MIT, so you just move the problem to twisted
[14:39] <nessita> dobey: I still don't see the licensing issue to escalate it to upstream, they need the reactor code (which they write) to be compatible with twisted
[14:39] <nessita> dobey: they just import pyqt, and handle it not being there
[14:39] <nessita> so pyqt is not strictly a dependency
[14:39] <nessita> dobey: so, for example, our code that uses both, is GPL, which is correct
[14:40] <nessita> because MIT + GPL => GPL
[14:40] <dobey> mdeslaur: not quite; at that point it's a plug-in; it's still hairy but apps using qtreactor would need to be GPL, though twisted wouldn't necessarily.
[14:40] <mdeslaur> nessita: pyqt is probably considered to be "bindings" by the GPL FAQ
[14:40] <mterry> seb128, I feel like cjwatson did some interesting infrastructure stuff.  But I mostly just fought with various ftbfs  :)  not glamorous enough for a post I think
[14:40] <dobey> nessita: it doesn't matter if they handle it not being there with the try/except or not
[14:40] <nessita> dobey: apps using qt4reactor and pyside do not need to be GPL
[14:40] <nessita> mdeslaur: ^
[14:40] <dobey> nessita: yes it's annoying, and yes it's hairy
[14:41] <mdeslaur> nessita: so, if you patch the pyqt4 import out of qt4reactor, problem is solved
[14:41] <mdeslaur> nessita: but I suspect that's not what you want to do
[14:41] <dobey> no, we use pyqt
[14:41] <nessita> mdeslaur: not at all, since we use that :-)
[14:41] <dobey> so that doesn't help :)
[14:41] <nessita> mdeslaur: and we're GPL, which is fine
[14:41] <nessita> we == Ubuntu Onre
[14:41] <nessita> One*
[14:42] <mvo> pitti: sure, fixed in bzr
[14:42] <pitti> mvo: danke
[14:42] <pitti> I've done the same for a few other packages, but don't upload anything except computer-janitor (as there I might just forget to upload it later)
[14:43] <dobey> nessita: basically, it seems upstream needs to change the license to GPL, or drop pyqt support
[14:44] <nessita> dobey: I know I'm not a licensing expert, but I think that too strict. I still don't see why qt4reactor has to deal with the gpl-ity pf pyqt
[14:44] <nessita> is a responsibility of the users os qt4reactor
[14:44] <nessita> of*
[14:44] <dobey> nessita: because they use it
[14:44] <nessita> dobey: they don't use it necessarily
[14:44] <nessita> dobey: the code can work without it, using pyside
[14:44] <dobey> nessita: it's not a plug-in.
[14:45] <nessita> dobey: let's make it be a plugin
[14:45] <dobey> nessita: if it was a plug-in system with the pyqt support being another package, that might be fine
[14:45] <nessita> dobey: let's split that then, should be fair simple, no?
[14:45] <dobey> i suspect not, no
[14:45] <nessita> dobey: why not?
[14:46] <nessita> mdeslaur: would you please link me to what you mentioned re: bindings?
[14:46] <mdeslaur> nessita: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#IfInterpreterIsGPL
[14:46] <nessita> mdeslaur: I'm reading the FAQ and what I found about bindings is related to running programs on GPL interpreters
[14:47] <nessita> mdeslaur: right, I'm reading that, and I don't think that applies to this case, no?
[14:47] <nessita> our interpreter is not GPL
[14:48] <dobey> nessita: the interpreter (python) license is irrelevant in that statement about bindings
[14:48] <mdeslaur> the interpreter is python, pyqt is the binding between python and QT. Since pyqt is GPL, apps that use pyqt need to be GPL also.
[14:48] <dobey> nessita: the bindings statement is purely about what is being interpreted
[14:48] <nessita> mdeslaur: agreed, so Ubuntu One is GPL. But qt4reactor does not necessarily uses pyqt...
[14:49] <mdeslaur> but, I'm not the one that is knowledgeable about these things. All I wanted to do yesterday was figure out who in Ubuntu gets to make the licensing decision.
[14:49] <nessita> mdeslaur: right, so skaet is the person to ask details about this, then?
[14:49] <dobey> what does the DFSG say?
[14:50] <nessita> dobey: can you please check?
[14:51]  * dobey prefers to just assume the world will end in 386 days anyway, so it probably doesn't really matter
[14:52] <mdeslaur> hehe
[14:53] <nessita> mdeslaur: so, shall we re-ask someone in ubuntu-release or shall we ping someone in particular?
[14:54] <mdeslaur> nessita: wait a bit, skaet just arrived, let's see what she says.
[14:55] <nessita> mdeslaur: right :-)
[14:57] <dobey> nessita: a simple solution would be to just have upstream dual-license it
[14:58] <nessita> dobey: how does double licensing work? I mean, what they need to do?
[14:58] <mdeslaur> dobey: well, MIT is GPL compatible...it doesn't need to be specifically GPL licensed I don't think
[15:00] <mdeslaur> not that I know anything about this :P
[15:00] <dobey> mdeslaur: it's GPL compatible (GPL apps can use MIT code), but it doesn't work the same the other way 'round. MIT apps can't use GPL code (since GPL requires anything linked to GPL to be GPL, save the system lib clause, which pyqt doesn't fall under)
[15:00] <mdeslaur> dobey: ah! that makes sense
[15:01] <dobey> but a dual license here would help (if you use pyqt it's GPL, if you use pyside it's MIT); though i don't know if upstream is willing to do it
[15:02]  * mdeslaur nods
[15:03] <dobey> if not, the next best solution might be to just ship it as GPL, which i think is perfectly fine legally so long as we maintain (c) notice in the code
[15:16] <jincreator> pitti: Hi. Do you remember my bug report about ttf-nanum?
[15:16] <pitti> hey jincreator; sure
[15:16] <pitti> or fonts-nanum as it is called these days
[15:17] <jincreator> pitti: Yes, Package name is changed.
[15:19] <jincreator> pitti: And also fonts-nanum-coding include fontconfig setting. But both fontconfig snippet is not working at Ubuntu in my test.
[15:21] <jincreator> So, I was thinking about remove 69-language-selector-ko-kor.conf and patch fontconfig-config package.
[15:23] <jincreator> But if Japanese and Chinese users are agree and help, I think we can remove entire fontconfig hack for CJK users in language-selector by modify fontconfig-config. What do you think about it?
[15:23] <pitti> jincreator: is that known to not work in Debian as well?
[15:23] <pitti> jincreator: I wonder if language-selector's hacks destroyed the package's fontconfig file somehow
[15:23] <jincreator> pitti: In my test, it is working well in Debian.
[15:23] <pitti> so I guess we need to remove the hacks from language-selector then?
[15:24] <jincreator> pitti: I think "lang" option in fontconfig is not working at Ubuntu.
[15:27] <pitti> jincreator: strange, we have the same fontconfig version as in Debian
[15:28] <pitti> jincreator: so you already ruled out that language-selector installs an extra hack which breaks this?
[15:30] <jincreator> pitti: No, I don't mean language-selector destroy another package's fontconfig file.
[15:31] <jincreator> pitti: I don't know why it happen at only Ubuntu even it use same fontconfig version with Debian. And I didn't see bug report about it. But, bug 884645 looks like it is happening to ja locale.
[15:31] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 884645 in language-selector "Improvement for ja-jp conf (69-language-selector-ja-jp.conf): measure for ttf-unfonts-core side-effects" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/884645
[15:32] <pitti> jincreator: hm, I'm afraid I'm useless there as well; fontconfig is a mystery to me :(
[15:36] <jincreator> pitti: fonts-nanum's fontconfig snippet is only work when locale is "ko". But it looks this function is not working in Ubuntu. So I'm trying to remove this snippet and use another fontconfig(i.e fontconfig-config, language-selector, ...).
[15:36] <pitti> jincreator: so it seems we should really fix that function then
[15:37] <jincreator> pitti: Yes.
[15:37] <pitti> instead of moving around the conffiles and permanently diverging from debian
[15:37] <pitti> jincreator: note that we want to get rid of the l-s fontconfig hacks entirely
[15:37] <pitti> as we move to gnome-control-center
[15:39] <jincreator> Well, I think 69-language-selector-ko-kr.conf is no more needs anymore. Because I didn't see any Korean Ubuntu users notice bug 879069.
[15:39] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 879069 in ubiquity "language-selector doesn't automatically link fontconfig files for CJK users" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/879069
[15:40] <jincreator> And actually fontconfig-config has almost same settings. So I think we can remove this file. But, I'm not sure about Chinese and Japanese fontconfig hack.
[15:43] <pitti> jincreator: ok, thanks; is there a bug for the non-working locale selection with a fool-proof description how to test this?
[15:44] <kenvandine> mterry, do you have time for another easy MIR review?  another requirement for empathy, bug 898693
[15:44] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 898693 in telepathy-farstream "[MIR telepathy-farstream" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/898693
[15:45] <mterry> kenvandine, sure
[15:45] <pitti> jincreator: please feel free to subscribe me to that (sorry, need to run now)
[15:45] <kenvandine> mterry, thx :)
[15:46] <jincreator> pitti: Sorry, I didn't see any more bug report about it at now. But if I find, I will subscribe you.
[15:46] <pitti> jincreator: thanks; or just create one, we can dupe it later
[15:46] <pitti> so, good night everyone!
[15:46] <kenvandine> pitti, can you look at the gnome-keyring SRU again?
[15:46] <kenvandine> pitti, nevermind :)
[15:46] <kenvandine> good night!
[15:46] <jincreator> pitti: Good night!
[15:50] <cyphermox> seb128: bkerensa expressed interest in desktop work, I don't know if he has shown up in here before, but I suggested he did
[15:51] <seb128> cyphermox, I don't think he did, or not while I was around
[15:51] <cyphermox> aye
[15:51] <seb128> 'night pitti
[15:52] <seb128> cyphermox, re. small things to work on, do you want to get some bugs assigned or do you prefer to focus on NM to get the workitems cleaned earlier in the cycle and do bugs later in the cycle?
[15:53] <seb128> cyphermox, we have nothing urgent but enough bugs to keep busy (and help on merges is welcome as well)
[15:53] <seb128> mterry, ^ same for you, help on merging,upgrading stuff on versions which are not green is welcome
[15:53] <cyphermox> guess I'll sprint on my WIs, it's all small ones so with some luck I can have a good head start in a week
[15:55] <cyphermox> also, updating NM and nm-applet in precise will already get rid of two red items ;)
[15:56] <seb128> cyphermox, seems like a plan, if you get bored or want to do something easy on the side do a few merges on free slots and that should already be good help for us ;-)
[15:56] <cyphermox> sure
[15:57] <seb128> cyphermox, speaking of n-m do you know what are the upstream plans for this cycle? do you plan to track a new version or to stay behind as we do for GNOME?
[15:57] <cyphermox> tonight is ubuntu hour, if nobody shows up I'll have plenty of time for merges
[15:57] <cyphermox> plan is to stay on 0.9, but I think upstream isn't going all that aggressively either
[15:58] <cyphermox> but there's so many goodies I'd like to have in.. zone support (firewalls, etc.), vlan, bonding, etc.
[15:58] <seb128> cyphermox, ok, I was mostly mentioning it to make sure you know that we will default to stay on GNOME 3.2, in case you planed to track a new n-m which might try to force us to pull new GNOME components we didn't plan to update
[15:59] <seb128> cyphermox, we will update the platform, i.e glib, gtk probably (we need to sort some details for gtk)
[15:59] <cyphermox> modemmanager will probably also get updating to the latest crack, but since nothing but NM touches it, it's safe
[15:59] <cyphermox> ok, I'll keep that in mind
[15:59] <cyphermox> so generally, gnome-control-center is the most sensitive I think
[16:00] <seb128> yeah, and one of the most annoying one as well, I think we will default to backport what we need from 3.4 for it
[16:00] <cyphermox> I also already fixed up daily builds, so I can know in advance
[16:03] <seb128> great
[16:03] <seb128> lool, hey
[16:04] <seb128> lool, do you know about dh-autoreconf?
[16:04] <seb128> lool, we moved from autoreconf patches to that for ~ 1.5 years ;-)
[16:05] <seb128> lool, I'm just mentioning it, in case you didn't know, it has dh and a cdbs integration, so it's usually one rules like to change,add and a build-depends on dh-autoreconf (and often one on gnome-common as well for GNOME stuff)
[17:09] <seb128> tedg, hi, do you know if bug #785852 is a bug in indicator-application or libappindicator?
[17:09] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 785852 in indicator-application "Menu reordering does not work" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/785852
[17:10] <tedg> seb128, I'd be surprised that doesn't work.... but, if so, it's a bug in dbusmenu-gtk
[17:11] <seb128> tedg, well I can confirm that the example from the bug has the issue
[17:11] <seb128> tedg, i.e https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-application/+bug/785852/+attachment/2136524/+files/bugtest.cpp
[17:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 785852 in indicator-application "Menu reordering does not work" [Low,New]
[17:11] <seb128> but maybe gtk_menu_reorder_child () is a weird way to do it :p
[17:12] <seb128> tedg, ok, reassigning there then
[17:13] <tedg> seb128, Hmm, it should work... I'm confused why it wouldn't.  A signal must be getting compressed somewhere.
[17:13] <tedg> It sends a remove and an add on reorder.
[17:15] <seb128> tedg, thanks, it seems like a good bug for mterry to look at if he's getting bored after his sponsoring today ;-)
[17:16] <seb128> mterry, ^ do you want to take on this one? dbusmenu issue, menu not getting the right order in the indicator after a reorder()
[17:16] <tedg> Heh, I loose sleep at night worrying that mterry might get bored ;-)
[17:16] <seb128> lol
[17:18] <mterry> seb128, i can look a bit today yeah
[17:19] <seb128> mterry, no need to be today, I will assign it to you, thanks ;-)
[17:19] <mterry> tedg, seb128: guys, you are thinking about this too much.  I've got aisleriot, I'm fine, really
[17:19] <seb128> lol
[17:20] <seb128> just give a deck of cards to mterry, that's all he needs to be happy ;-)
[17:21]  * desrt notes GNOME copying papercuts
[17:24] <kenvandine> papercuts was a good idea
[17:24] <desrt> indeed
[17:24] <desrt> good ideas deserve copying :)
[17:24] <desrt> (and refinement)
[17:24] <seb128> desrt, sure, GNOME always copy Ubuntu after a few years ;-)
[17:24] <desrt> seb128: papercuts was obviously a copy of gnome-love :p
[17:25] <desrt> mfisch: hey
[17:25] <HOHOHaney> where is the current list of gnome external dependencies?
[17:25] <seb128> desrt, virtuous cycle? ;-)
[17:25] <HOHOHaney> is libproxy on it?
[17:25] <mfisch> desrt: hey
[17:25] <desrt> seb128: i like to think so
[17:25] <desrt> mfisch: what are you doing around these parts?
[17:26] <desrt> oh god.  do you work for canonical now?
[17:26] <mfisch> desrt: well I work for canonical now and do some ubuntu on the side
[17:26] <mfisch> desrt: but
[17:26] <mfisch> desrt: I have no idea who you are ;)
[17:26] <desrt> ya.  you're a different mfisch than i thought you were :)
[17:27] <mfisch> desrt: well, nice to meet you anyway
[17:27]  * desrt knows a matthew fisch who is 'mfisch' on efnet
[17:27] <desrt> nice to meet you too :)
[17:28] <seb128> HOHOHaney, good question, glib-networking is using it so I guess it's on the external dependencies list
[17:28] <seb128> not sure where they keep that list nowadays though
[17:29] <seb128> desrt might know
[17:29] <desrt> jjardon is more likely to know
[17:29]  * desrt isn't really a GNOME guy
[17:32] <seb128> HOHOHaney, desrt: there is a "meebey" who just asked the same question on #gnome-hackers
[17:32] <seb128> so let's see if somebody reply there ;-)
[17:40] <jjardon> seb128: HOHOHaney yeah, Its a external dep
[17:41] <jjardon> http://git.gnome.org/browse/jhbuild/tree/modulesets/gnome-suites-core-deps-3.4.modules#n869
[18:08] <didrocks> ok, time for dinner and some rest!
[18:08] <didrocks> see you tomorrow (and on Monday seb128)
[21:17] <kenvandine> tedg, did you know that dbusmenu-bench is broken?
[21:17] <kenvandine> looks like it missed getting updated when there was an API change
[21:18]  * kenvandine guesses people don't actually use it :)
[21:42] <lool> seb128: dh-autoreconf > I've seen it around, but didn't actually trust it TDTRT  :-)
[21:42] <lool> seb128: I had recently a case once where it seemed to break the build unless I avoided certain things, but anyway, I should give it a try; thanks for the pointer
[21:42] <seb128> lool, we use it pretty much across the board for desktop for over a year if that brings any extra confidence
[21:43] <lool> Ok
[21:43] <desrt> seb128: how does dh-autoreconf interact with maintainer mode?
[21:43] <desrt> makes it irrelevent i guess?
[21:43] <seb128> yeah, pretty much
[21:43] <desrt> i like it!
[21:44] <seb128> lol
[21:44] <lool> :-)
[21:44] <seb128> you rather hate maintainer mode
[21:44] <seb128> that's different ;-)
[21:44] <desrt> i hate distros telling me to set it one way or another :p
[21:44] <desrt> so anything that allows distros not to care is a friend to me
[21:45] <lool> sadly, needing all the autotools at build time kind of makes the whole design useless :-/
[21:45] <desrt> would also be really extra cool if i could remove 1MB of shell from the glib tarball
[21:46]  * desrt replaces ./configure with a script that echos "autotools muckerfucker.  do you have it?"
[21:46] <TheMuso> desrt: You may have seen my conversation earlier with seb128 about GTK 3.4, and possibly needing to extend the MenuItem API to help with some a11y dbusmenu work I'm doing. Do you have a few minutes to talk about it? THis extension would also benefit a11y for upstream network-manager applet for one.
[21:46] <lool> plus all the Makefile.ins
[21:46] <TheMuso> c/
[21:47] <desrt> TheMuso: thanks for mentioning about 4 things that i'm interested in within a single sentence
[21:47] <desrt> TheMuso: does this have to do with the 'accessibility role' attribute that gets set differently depending on which menuitem subclass you have?
[21:48] <TheMuso> desrt: No, it has to do with setting an alternative accessible name if there is extra informatino that the menu item icon is conveying to the user, the network-manager network list being a prime usecase.
[21:48] <TheMuso> I.e network name as the menu item label, icon as signal strength/security.
[21:48] <TheMuso> We need a way to convey that textually to Orca users etc.
[21:48] <desrt> it strikes me that this doesn't have a whole lot to do with dbusmenu
[21:49] <TheMuso> No it doesn't, but I need to extend Dbusmenu's API to work with whatever the final solution is in any case.
[21:49] <desrt> understood
[21:49] <desrt> do you have a proposal?
[21:49] <desrt> "dlink [Insecure, 91% signal]" sort of thing?
[21:50] <TheMuso> That is what the desired end result is, yes.
[21:50] <desrt> sounds like you want an alt="" tag for the image
[21:50] <TheMuso> Is that possible with a menu item icon?
[21:51] <desrt> no
[21:51] <desrt> not for any particular reason -- we just didn't think about it
[21:51] <TheMuso> Didn't think so, which is essnetially what I'm getting at with needing to extend GtkMenuItem.
[21:51] <desrt> why not open a bug against gtk about it?
[21:51] <TheMuso> Ok will do.
[21:52] <desrt> TheMuso: you could also pop into #gtk+ to discuss it
[21:53] <TheMuso> Actually, I'm on gimpnet, I might do that.