[06:19] <DanChapman> Good Morning all
[06:29] <DanChapman> nik90_: hey so i started to look at the clock app cmake last night then noticed gang65/Bartosz has a recent branch for it, is that still active and in progress? I don't want to be stepping on anyones toes, so thought i would ask before proceeding
[06:39] <dholbach> good morning
[06:43] <nhaines> dholbach: good morning. :)
[06:50] <dholbach> hi nhaines
[06:52] <justCarakas> good morning all
[06:57] <dpm> morning dholbach
[06:58] <dholbach> hola dpm
[06:58] <dpm> hola hola
[06:58] <dpm> dholbach, do you have a few minutes for a question on packaging?
[06:58] <dholbach> dpm, sure sure
[06:58] <dpm> cool, so quick context first
[06:59] <dpm> I'm trying to build a package that switches the evernote account to use production servers (we're using development so far)
[06:59] <dpm> the change has landed in trunk
[06:59] <dholbach> right
[07:00] <dpm> trunk has got a debian folder where packages are built from
[07:00] <dpm> and that works as expected locally and on a PPA
[07:00] <dholbach> cool
[07:00] <dpm> now I'm trying to get that uploaded to the archive, so I talked to the ci train team, got a silo assigned
[07:01] <dpm> and the package built in a silo's PPA
[07:01] <dpm> however, it inexplicably failed
[07:01] <dholbach> do you have a link to the log?
[07:01] <dpm> but I thing I tracked why
[07:01] <dpm> *think
[07:01] <dpm> yeah, although I didn't mean the build failed, here's what happened:
[07:02] <dpm> the build succeeded
[07:02] <dpm> but the package uses dh-exec to expand ${DEB_HOST_MULTIARCH} in debian/*.install files
[07:03] <dpm> what failed is that the expansion did not happen, so I end up with a .deb that contains files in /usr/lib/${DEB_HOST_MULTIARCH} (unexpanded)
[07:03] <dholbach> do you have a link to the source package?
[07:04] <dpm> dholbach, https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/landing-013
[07:04] <dholbach> thanks
[07:04] <dpm> https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/landing-013/+files/reminders-app_0.4%2B14.10.20140703-0ubuntu1.dsc
[07:04] <dpm> I've tracked it down to the diff.gz file not carrying the +x flag of the .install file
[07:05] <dpm> the .install file must be set as executable for dh-exec to work
[07:05] <dpm> I've been told I should move to source format 3.0
[07:06] <dpm> which generates the diff as a diff.tar.gz
[07:07] <dpm> but there are 2 things I don't understand: why is a diff.gz generated at all, if I've only got a branch with the code? What is the diff against?
[07:07] <dpm> and then what should I use 3.0 (native) or 3.0 (quilt)?
[07:07] <dholbach> dpm, it's a diff against the orig.tar.gz
[07:08] <dholbach> or diff on top of the orig tarball
[07:08] <dholbach> to separate out the packaging
[07:08] <dpm> ah, and the generation of orig.tar.gz effectively removes the debian folder, then?
[07:08] <dholbach> the debian/ dir should not be part of the orig tarball, yes
[07:08] <dpm> ok, gotcha
[07:08] <dholbach> I think for autolanding the rule is to not have debian/source/format
[07:09] <dholbach> let me toy around with it for a bit
[07:09]  * dpm hugs dholbach
[07:10] <dpm> dholbach,  if it helps, this is the branch that contains the code: https://code.launchpad.net/~dpm/reminders-app/account-plugin-evernote-upload/+merge/225581 (it was supposed to be a non-change MP, but I had to change the packaging version and other things as instructed by robru to make the ci-train happy)
[07:12] <dholbach> ok cool - I'll get back to you in a bit
[07:14] <dpm> thank you!
[07:16] <dholbach> dpm, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7745831/
[07:16] <dholbach> dpm, not sure if it's the best way to do it, or the most elegant, but it works :)
[07:18] <dpm> dholbach, what I like on that sentence is the "it works" bit :)
[07:18] <dholbach> thought so ;-)
[07:19] <dpm> dholbach, I'm happy with that, but to understand it: so you would recommend against modifying the debian/source file to migrate to 3.0?
[07:19] <dholbach> dpm, at least AFAIUI for the autolanding to work, you have to keep debian/source/format empty - that's at least how it was last time I checked the docs... so it might even be that this is how you have to do it for now
[07:20] <dholbach> Robert, Timo, Didier, Sébastien and others would know for sure - I can try to dig out the link again
[07:21] <dholbach> ok... found it
[07:21] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DailyRelease/InlinePackaging
[07:21] <dholbach> step 1)
[07:21] <dholbach> $ rm -rf debian/patches debian/source
[07:21] <dholbach> so yes
[07:23] <dholbach> dpm, want to chat a bit on the phone?
[07:23] <dpm> dholbach, sure, thanks. Let me try to push that change to the MP first
[07:23] <dholbach> ok ok
[07:27] <dpm> dholbach, does it look ok to you? -> https://code.launchpad.net/~dpm/reminders-app/account-plugin-evernote-upload/+merge/225581
[07:29] <dpm> dholbach, other than that, then all set for a call
[07:49] <dholbach> dpm, yep, AFAICS it's looking good
[07:49] <dpm> awesome, thanks
[08:14] <dpm> lol, http://www.programmerexcuses.com/
[08:14] <dpm> I should probably start ticking how many of those I've used already
[08:17] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy US Independence Day! :-D
[08:17] <kalikiana> t1mp: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/englishButtons/+merge/225610
[08:26] <dpm> morning mzanetti, would you be able to install account-plugin-evernote from silo 13 and confirm that it works? I've tested it myself, but it'd be good to get an extra +1: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuDk72Lpx8U5dFVHQ3FuMDJGLUZCamJfSjYzbWh3Wnc&pli=1#gid=31
[08:26] <mzanetti> dpm: sure
[08:27] <dpm> awesome, thanks
[08:36] <dpm> popey, could you start preparing a click for reminders' trunk when you've got a minute?
[08:37] <t1mp> kalikiana: is that a pre for your localization branch?
[08:38] <kalikiana> t1mp: no, just staging. which currently for me fails due to localization
[08:38] <kalikiana> as the buttons will say Anrufen
[08:39] <popey> dpm: sure.
[08:39] <dpm> cool cool
[08:40] <t1mp> kalikiana: for now I'll first debug the landing branch before happroving new stuff if you don't mind
[08:40] <popey> click for 172 is built
[08:40] <popey> that what you want, right?
[08:40] <kalikiana> t1mp: that's why I saw it, as it is in landing ;-)
[08:41] <kalikiana> and false positives are rather annoying
[08:41] <t1mp> kalikiana: does that branch fix something in the landing tests that zoltan is running? or only for you?
[08:41] <dpm> popey, indeed. Can you pass it on to me and I'll upload it? We'll have to wait for the account-plugin-evernote archive upload before approving for the store
[08:42] <kalikiana> t1mp: it does fix errors in the landing branch if I run them
[08:45] <popey> dpm: k
[08:49] <JoeyChan> Hello geeks,  I previously using a script to run my c++ project on my Nexus, now it said "QUbuntu: Could not create application instance
[08:49] <JoeyChan> "
[08:50] <JoeyChan> the original script is from reminder-app
[09:13] <fuzzywhirlpool> Hi there.
[09:29] <mzanetti> dpm: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuDk72Lpx8U5dFVHQ3FuMDJGLUZCamJfSjYzbWh3Wnc&pli=1#gid=31
[09:30] <dpm> mzanetti, awesome, let's...
[09:30] <dpm>  ____  _   _ ___ ____    ___ _____ _
[09:30] <dpm> \___ \| |_| || || |_) |  | |  | | | |
[09:30] <dpm>  ___) |  _  || ||  __/   | |  | | |_|
[09:30] <dpm> |____/|_| |_|___|_|     |___| |_| (_)
[09:30] <mzanetti> lol
[09:31] <mzanetti> JoeyChan: hey, the issue is most likely that your .desktop file is not within ApplicationDirPath
[09:31] <mzanetti> JoeyChan: I've reported this yesterday
[09:32] <mzanetti> JoeyChan: for now, change your script to pass one of the .desktop files from /usr/share/applications/ in --desktop_file_hint
[09:33] <JoeyChan> mzanetti: ok  let me see
[09:34] <justCarakas> is google also down for you guys ?
[09:35] <justCarakas> its working again :p got a 500 for 2 min :p
[09:36] <mzanetti> works for me (TM)
[09:39] <mzanetti> t1mp: hey, I have a few issues with the new header, now that I tried to switch over some of my apps. I can't figure how to open a Popover when tapping on an Action and position that correctly
[09:39] <davmor2> dpm: Lets DHIP IT! ;)
[09:39] <mzanetti> t1mp: it opens, but the pointer points to the upper left corner, not to the action
[09:39] <dpm> davmor2, yeah, a bit of a #fail with pasting :)
[09:39] <mzanetti> I've also tried to explicitly set pointerTarget, but doesn't help
[09:41] <mzanetti> dpm: doesn't really look like an S with monospace fonts either :P
[09:41] <JoeyChan> mzanetti:  thx it work  :)
[09:41] <JoeyChan> mzanetti:  but why can't I use my own .desktop file ?
[09:42] <mzanetti> JoeyChan: a bug
[09:42] <mzanetti> JoeyChan: you can use your own if you copy it to /usr/share/applications/ or ~/.local/share/applications/
[09:42] <dpm> mzanetti, I'm very tempted to paste it again, but I don't want to spam again with ASCII art :D
[09:43] <JoeyChan> mzanetti: oh,  let me try
[09:48] <t1mp> mzanetti: there is no support for that. The popover needs an Item to point to (Action is not an Item)
[09:48] <t1mp> mzanetti: you can add a lot of actions to the header, and those that don't fit will automatically be put in popover
[09:49] <mzanetti> t1mp: yeah, I tried making it point to the wrapping ToolbarItem, but doesn't work either
[09:49] <mzanetti> t1mp: but I need a popover menu :/
[09:49] <mzanetti> t1mp: basically I have like 3 icons in there already, and each of them needs to open another popover
[09:49] <mzanetti> t1mp: we're not talking about apps with just 1 feature here :P
[09:50] <JoeyChan> mzanetti:  lol   now works perfectly      thx very much
[09:51] <mzanetti> yw
[09:51] <t1mp> mzanetti: the ToolbarItem is no longer used, that's just there to still support the old toolbar API
[09:51] <mzanetti> t1mp: ah ok... so I could drop that... cool.
[09:51] <t1mp> mzanetti: we are currently trying to land the new header API (old one will still work though) where you can simply give a list of Actions (no more ToolbarItems needed)
[09:51] <mzanetti> +1 on that
[09:51] <t1mp> mzanetti: until we land the new header API you still need to have the ToolbarItem in there
[09:52] <mzanetti> t1mp: still I guess the issue with the Popover in those persists
[09:52] <t1mp> mzanetti: yes
[09:52] <mzanetti> t1mp: any other suggestion what to do?
[09:52] <mzanetti> t1mp: example is: I have an Action called "Power"
[09:52] <mzanetti> t1mp: and the popover would open a menu with "Shutdown", "Suspend", ...
[09:52] <t1mp> mzanetti: design doesn't like multiple popovers from the header, and there is a proposal for new visuals which replaces the popover by something that looks more like it is part of the header
[09:53] <t1mp> mzanetti: it is possible to open a popover, with "null" as its target. The popover will then be centered in the screen with no pointer
[09:53] <mzanetti> t1mp: ok... I don't really care how it looks visually... but I don't really have a place to put the actions
[09:53] <t1mp> mzanetti: another option is a Dialog
[09:53] <mzanetti> yeah... thought about the dialog
[09:53] <t1mp> mzanetti: or you have an action that pushes a new Page on a PageStack which shows Shutdown/Suspend/...
[09:54] <mzanetti> hmm... didn't think of that yet
[09:54] <t1mp> mzanetti: let's try to involve someone from the design team
[09:54] <mzanetti> t1mp: I can elaborate a bit more on my use case (providing some screenshots how it works with the deprecatedToolbar)
[09:54] <t1mp> mzanetti: I'm not against adding support for multiple popovers if there are use cases and designs, but perhaps there are better/cleaner ways to do it
[10:02] <t1mp> giorgioventuri: hello
[10:02] <giorgioventuri> t1mp: hi
[10:02] <t1mp> giorgioventuri: currently tabs in the header open a popover on the left, and if there are too many actions, there will be an action overflow button on the right that opens another popover
[10:02] <t1mp> giorgioventuri: personally I think that's good :)
[10:03] <giorgioventuri> t1mp that's correct
[10:03] <t1mp> giorgioventuri: mzanetti has a use case where he likes several buttons in the header that each open a different popover
[10:03] <mzanetti> t1mp: giorgioventuri: here's an example:
[10:03] <t1mp> giorgioventuri: there are alternatives: 1. Open a popover in the center of the screen without a pointer pointing to the header button, 2. A dialog instead of a popover 3. The action opens a new page (pushes the Page on the PageStack) that shows the additional actions there
[10:04] <mzanetti> http://wstaw.org/m/2014/07/04/plasma-desktopRh8061.png
[10:04] <mzanetti> http://wstaw.org/m/2014/07/04/plasma-desktopuv8061.png
[10:04] <mzanetti> i.e. there' 3 items in the toolbar
[10:04] <mzanetti> each one produces a popover with more entries, (depending on how many audio streams, subtitiles etc the movie has)
[10:04] <t1mp> mzanetti: more, subtitle, audio track?
[10:05] <mzanetti> yeah
[10:05] <t1mp> mzanetti: there is a problem with header actions opening a popover. If there are too many actions in the header, some automatically go in the overflow popover, so then you could have an action in the popover opening another popover
[10:06] <mzanetti> yeah... just realized that too
[10:06] <mzanetti> that wouldn't be nive
[10:06] <mzanetti> nice
[10:06] <t1mp> giorgioventuri: are there any design guidelines on how to solve this?
[10:07] <giorgioventuri> in general, we should provide a solid pattern for actions in apps
[10:07] <mzanetti> otoh, if the popover in the header is going away and more looking like the dash departments
[10:07] <mzanetti> then it would work fine
[10:07] <giorgioventuri> the pattern solves 99% of the use cases
[10:07] <t1mp> giorgioventuri: hmm.. an idea, could the header sections help out with this?
[10:07] <giorgioventuri> but if you look at the browser, which has a custom header, it has an action that opens a popover: 'bookmark'
[10:07] <mzanetti> t1mp: if you have a recently flashed device, go to the scopes scope, open the amazon scope and check out the submenu below the header
[10:07] <t1mp> giorgioventuri: if there was only the subtitle or audio track I guess that could go there
[10:08] <mzanetti> t1mp: there can be any number of audio tracks (just having a bad example here)
[10:08] <t1mp> mzanetti: what do you mean bookmark? I see "All departments" and under that a list of departmens and items to buy
[10:09] <mzanetti> t1mp: also, when xbmc plays music, the items change to repeat and shuffle, having 2 or 3 submenus too
[10:09] <mzanetti> t1mp: yeah, that "All departments" menu... you can expand it, navigate to subcategories etc
[10:09] <t1mp> mzanetti: that might be something to put in the bottom-edge swipe?
[10:09] <t1mp> mzanetti: hmm... there is a bottom edge available also when you move stuff to the header
[10:10] <mzanetti> t1mp: hmm... I had other plans for the bottom edge... but I can rethink those
[10:10] <t1mp> giorgioventuri: the browser in the image still has the toolbar at the bottom
[10:10] <giorgioventuri> t1mp: mzanetti: sorry guys, what is the problem we are trying to solve here? the general pattern or this specific app
[10:10] <mzanetti> imo more the general pattern...
[10:11] <mzanetti> as in, right now we can't really have groups of actions
[10:11] <giorgioventuri> ok, the general pattern is that actions don't open popovers
[10:11] <t1mp> mzanetti: I think in general it is good the way we have it now
[10:11] <t1mp> giorgioventuri: and I think that is a good pattern, which doesn't confuse the user
[10:11] <giorgioventuri> but I can see use cases where you want to have custom headers
[10:12] <giorgioventuri> special use cases like image editors for example
[10:12] <mzanetti> ah right... the gallery app seems to have the same issue
[10:12] <giorgioventuri> we need to look at these special use cases
[10:12] <giorgioventuri> mzanetti: is the app you are pointing to in he Ubuntu store?
[10:13] <mzanetti> giorgioventuri: yes. however, you need to install xbmc to be able to get to those screens
[10:13] <mzanetti> giorgioventuri: xbmc on a pc, then connect to it with that app
[10:13] <mzanetti> the app is called xbmcremote
[10:13] <giorgioventuri> I see
[10:13] <giorgioventuri> I have XBMC on my computer at home, not here
[10:14] <mzanetti> giorgioventuri: then its about time you start using the best remote control app for it :P
[10:14] <t1mp> mzanetti: what's the problem with the gallery app?
[10:14] <giorgioventuri> can we hang out and screen share? that might be easier
[10:14] <t1mp> mzanetti: ah gallery-app has a popover for "Edit" and "Share"
[10:14] <mzanetti> yeo
[10:14] <mzanetti> yep
[10:15] <t1mp> I don't know if there is a new design for gallery-app that uses the header instead of toolbar
[10:15] <t1mp> giorgioventuri: ^ do you know?
[10:15] <mzanetti> well, I guess the plan is to eventually get away with the deprecated toolbar, no?
[10:15] <giorgioventuri> t1mp: we haven't touch it yet, it's on our hit list though
[10:16] <t1mp> mzanetti: the easiest for you now is I think to use a popover without a target so there is no pointer
[10:16] <mzanetti> t1mp: yeah, didn't have the idea to try without parent
[10:17] <t1mp> mzanetti: but I don't know if that is the best final solution..
[10:17] <mzanetti> t1mp: but yes, I agree, I'll go with that for now and wait what design people come up with for the gallery app
[10:17] <mzanetti> and then follow that approach
[10:17] <t1mp> mzanetti: its your friday afternoon project?
[10:17] <mzanetti> t1mp: no... its just a spare time app
[10:17] <mzanetti> but I don't want to ping you about such issues on sunday morning... so that's why I'm here now
[10:18] <giorgioventuri> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/gvdlswlhegfs2cken54sobvqfaa
[10:18] <t1mp> mzanetti: there will be an additional way to quickly change options, I'm going to work on adding a list of options to the header divider, where you can swipe it to quickly switch between the options
[10:18] <t1mp> mzanetti: it is fine to ping on sunday morning
[10:18] <t1mp> mzanetti: but probably I won't reply ;) since I'm offline
[10:33] <mzanetti> t1mp: one other thing I noticed: seems the actions don't adjust the icon's color to the title color. known or should I file a bug for it?
[10:34] <t1mp> mzanetti: known, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1317816
[10:35] <t1mp> mzanetti: the bug mentions only the tabs drawer, but I'll update it because it goes for all header icons
[10:35] <mzanetti> yep
[10:47] <giorgioventuri> mzanetti: ping me when you are ready
[10:48] <mzanetti> giorgioventuri: I got it to run now...
[10:48] <mzanetti> if it fits for you, we can have the hangout it now
[10:48] <giorgioventuri> sure
[10:48] <giorgioventuri> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/grndp4li2j5spj3zupnkycmcyia
[10:51] <nik90_> popey: want to go hunting for a cmake person?>
[10:52] <popey> heh.
[10:52] <popey> DanChapman: you still about? ☻
[10:52] <nik90_> popey: btw regarding bug 1333299, we need to wait until 17:00 to check if the recurring alarm went of?
[10:53] <popey> nik90_: no, i had another recurring alarm on another device
[10:53] <popey> 06:46, wakey wakey
[10:53] <nik90_> ah
[10:53] <nik90_> sweet
[10:53] <popey> heard it go off this morning
[10:53] <nik90_> did the alarm sound go well? as in was it in short burts or the normal way?
[10:53] <popey> sounded as normal
[10:53] <popey> image 112 or so i think
[10:54] <nik90_> ok..I guess then bug 1337529 is no longer valid as well
[10:56] <popey> hmm
[10:56] <popey> i have heard that
[10:57]  * popey comments
[10:57]  * popey lunches
[10:58]  * nik90_ is away for 15 mins
[11:40] <dholbach> lool, beuno, does the thread on the appstore list mean that we are generally going to go for some kind of chroot mechanism instead of an API in the store?
[11:43] <beuno> dholbach, I wouldn't be able to implement it before RTM
[11:43] <beuno> so I think it means we'll do API now
[11:43] <beuno> and chroot when we can
[11:43] <dholbach> beuno, it wasn't quite clear to me where this discussion was going
[11:43] <lool> dholbach, beuno: Short-term the appstore json thing is great
[11:44] <lool> basically what beuno said
[11:44] <dholbach> ok
[11:44] <dpm> popey, the new reminders app source package, including the account-plugin-evernote binary package we need for the switch to production was uploaded about 1h ago (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/reminders-app) - do you know if this will make it to the next devel-proposed image?
[11:47] <dholbach> lool, beuno: ok... so while we now have a place where we define the frameworks (even if it's a ~ubuntu-core-dev/+junk branch for now), there's still  info from /usr/share/apparmor/easyprof we read
[11:47] <popey> i dont see it at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/utopic-changes/2014-July/thread.html dpm
[11:48] <dholbach> so it's not a solution yet which we can backport for trusty easily
[11:48] <popey> which means it wont be in the next image
[11:48] <dpm> ahhh, so close....
[11:48] <beuno> dholbach, that's the security policy, right>
[11:48] <beuno> ?
[11:49] <beuno> Jamie said he knew how to fix that and would do so when he returned
[11:49] <dholbach> ok
[11:49] <dpm> popey, so I guess the reminders .click update will have to wait till Monday?
[11:50] <popey> unless it hits the archive over the weekend and an image gets built
[11:51] <popey> what will the app do on older images?
[11:51] <popey> because (for example) my #106 phone wont have that package
[11:51] <popey> we probably need to wait for 1) package in archive, 2) image built, 3) image promotion, 4) put it in the store.
[11:55] <dpm> mzanetti, I'm re-setting the copyright MP to Needs Review simply because I've been told to go through CI I need a MP that's not been merged, but thanks for reviewing
[11:57] <mzanetti> dpm: not following on the reasoning... but ok. fine with me
[11:57] <dpm> popey, indeed, the app will not work on older images. So yeah, essentially 3) is the main milestone we'll need to wait for to continue
[11:58] <dpm> mzanetti, yesterday I requested the account-evernote-plugin landing, and I was told I could not just request it from trunk, so I had to prepare a no-change MP. This time around, I'll use this MP
[11:58] <dpm> so I don't have to prepare another dummy branch +MP
[12:06] <elopio> mardy: I have a couple of branches for review. Can you please take a look?
[12:06] <elopio> https://code.launchpad.net/~elopio/ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts
[12:48] <mihir> balloons: ping !!
[12:52] <daker> bzoltan: hi, can you please take a look at those MRs ? https://code.launchpad.net/~daker/qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu/webapps-valid-json & https://code.launchpad.net/~daker/qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu/fix.1327761
[12:52] <bzoltan> zbenjamin: ^
[12:53]  * zbenjamin looks
[13:03] <popey> nik90_: getting the choppy audio, phablet-shell'ed in, system-settings is eating 100% cpu
[13:03] <popey>   PID USER      PR  NI    VIRT    RES    SHR S  %CPU %MEM     TIME+ COMMAND
[13:03] <popey> 16022 phablet   20   0  322836  88952  31948 R  94.9  4.7   7:44.67 system-settings
[13:03] <popey>   729 message+  20   0   61540  58848    748 S  13.1  3.1   6:29.99 dbus-daemon
[13:03] <popey> that is probably why
[13:07] <daker> zbenjamin: and this please https://code.launchpad.net/~daker/qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu/fix.1335692/+merge/225657
[13:07] <nik90_> popey: ah weird
[13:07] <nik90_> popey: I dont get it though..what is system-setting doing anything with alarms
[13:08] <nik90_> popey: the least i would expect either EDS or indicator-datetime to do that
[13:10] <popey> nik90_: i dont think it is, i think its just that the phone is busy, so audio is choppy
[13:10] <popey> byproduct of a busy cpu
[13:10] <nik90_> popey: ah...so would that also affect call audio ringtone?
[13:12] <popey> possibly.
[13:12] <popey> i mean, if the cpu is pegged at 100% I expect all kinds of odd things
[13:12] <nik90_> DanChapman: hey regarding Dekko, I have an idea..You might want to consider using the Ubuntu Listview to display the emails in the inbox to make use of the pulltorefresh feature.
[13:12] <nik90_> DanChapman: this way one can just pull down to automatically refresh the list instead of a dedicated refresh button in the header
[13:12] <DanChapman> nik90_: has that landed now? last I looked it was in staging
[13:13] <nik90_> DanChapman: oh..let me check
[13:13] <nik90_> DanChapman: it hasn't landed :/
[13:13] <nik90_> popey: who should I bring this up with since it is not a clock app bug
[13:15] <nik90_> DanChapman: and I need your help with the clock app cmake file
[13:15] <popey> nik90_: i already have a bug open for system settings
[13:15] <popey> bug 1337200
[13:16] <nik90_> popey: ok..I will close the clock app bug and redirect the user to your bug
[13:16] <popey> k
[13:16] <popey> nik90_: see the mail ?
[13:17]  * nik90_ checks now
[13:18] <zbenjamin> bzoltan: the MRs from daker are already approved by the HTML team so i would say they are fine
[13:19] <bzoltan> zbenjamin:  OK, let's include them in the next landing
[13:20] <daker> bzoltan: zbenjamin thanks!
[13:22] <bzoltan> zbenjamin:  I am fine with even including them in the ongoing landing as we need to fix there the conflict anyway
[13:26] <DanChapman> nik90_: sure, i'll give you a ping after the trojita meeting
[13:35] <nik90_> t1mp: any idea when zsombor will be back?
[13:37] <popey> rschroll: happy 4th july
[13:39] <rschroll> popey: thanks :)
[13:41]  * nik90_ is admiring the new suru icons on the phone...they look gorgeous
[13:43] <t1mp> nik90_: not very soon
[13:43] <nik90_> t1mp: oh :/
[13:44] <popey> those crazy Finnish off in the mountains with their birch twigs, saunas and snow for months
[13:44] <t1mp> nik90_: I can't find it now.. I think for 2 weeks at least
[13:44] <popey>  -!- bzoltan<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has quit [TO THE MOUNTAINS]
[13:44] <nik90_> popey: lol
[13:45] <nik90_> t1mp: hmm I will have to redirect all the alarm bugs to kalikiana then :P
[13:45] <popey> +1
[13:48] <nik90_> popey: btw I cannot find my app flashback in the Sound and Video section. I checked developer.ubuntu.com to confirm the category.
[13:48] <nik90_> I noticed some other apps also missing like your podcast app
[13:48] <DanChapman> nik90_: dekko doesn't come up in Internet>Mail either
[13:48] <nik90_> DanChapman: +1
[13:50]  * popey looks
[13:51] <popey> looks broken
[13:51] <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-scope-click/+filebug?no_redirect
[13:51] <popey> ☻
[13:51] <nik90_> :)
[13:55] <nik90_> bug 1337864 reported
[14:20] <t1mp> popey: we have an issue with the qt icon themes not checking parent themes for icons
[14:20] <t1mp> popey: as a result, since switching to the suru-icon-theme, icons may be missing from apps
[14:21] <t1mp> popey: I found this in calendar-app: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7747258/
[14:21] <t1mp> popey: new-event and dropdown-menu icons are missing
[14:21] <t1mp> popey: dropdown-menu is fixed after the next UITK landing, but I think new-event must be changed to appointment-new
[14:25] <t1mp> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-calendar-app/+bug/1337879
[14:25]  * t1mp afk now, bbl
[14:34] <azkaban> hai
[14:36] <dpm> hi bfiller, is it now possible to use the camera app as a content source? I.e. other apps choosing camera in a content picker to take a pic and import it
[14:37] <azkaban> ehmmm
[14:51] <bfiller> dpm: not yet
[14:52] <dpm> bfiller, ah, ok, no worries. Just wondering, I thought I'd understood it from your apps update e-mail. Is this something that's planned for RTM?
[14:53] <bfiller> dpm: you can share from the photo roll in the camera which is a new feature. making it a content source is a might do for rtm if we have time
[14:55] <dpm> bfiller, ah, ok, thanks. I need to look at the translations for the new camera too. Is the project still the same in LP?
[14:55] <bfiller> dpm: yes
[14:56] <dpm> ah, seems like the translations template is already up-to-date, cool
[14:56] <bfiller> dpm: that's good, we just used the existing branch and modified the UI so I expect it should be all set
[15:00] <bfiller> popey: is there a way yet to create a calendar event and specify it for google calendar not local calendar?
[15:02] <DanChapman> nik90_: pulling clock reboot now. So what issues are you hitting with cmake? Looking at it I see it's only configured for click's is that correct and you don't need debian style desktop install or is that also needed?
[15:02] <nik90_> DanChapman: we need debian packaging as well
[15:03] <nik90_> DanChapman: check https://code.launchpad.net/~jpakkane/ubuntu-clock-app/utopiccmake
[15:03] <nik90_> DanChapman: jussi and sergio from canonical started working on it as well
[15:03] <nik90_> DanChapman: may be you can take a look there and see what still needs to be done
[15:08] <DanChapman> nik90_: ok cool i'll take a look at that then
[15:09] <dpm> bfiller, would it be possible to get bug 1320437 assigned for dialer and messaging? I'm not worried too much about notes, but it shouldn't take more than a few minutes to update translations, and translators need them to be exposed to finish their work before August. Thanks!
[15:11] <bfiller> dpm: yes, thought we had done that already
[15:11]  * DanChapman wonders what this magic cmake variable UBUNTU_PROJECT_TYPE does to QtCreator....... *goes to find out*
[15:12] <dpm> bfiller, from what I've seen, all other apps are up-to-date, it's only dialer and messaging
[15:12] <bfiller> dpm: I'll make sure we take care of it
[15:14] <dpm> awesome, thanks bfiller
[15:29] <popey> bfiller: sorry, was on a call...
[15:29] <popey> bfiller: there's a merge in flight to do that
[15:29] <popey> bfiller: https://code.launchpad.net/~pkunal-parmar/ubuntu-calendar-app/CalMan-NewEvent/+merge/224910
[15:30] <popey> balloons: can you help us fix up that test ^ ?
[15:30] <popey> then we can land it i think.
[15:31] <popey> oh, balloons will be on vacation i suspect, elopio can you help with that ^ ?
[15:32] <elopio> popey: yes, I'll check it.
[15:32] <popey> thanks elopio
[15:32] <elopio> popey: can you help getting this one reviewed?
[15:32] <elopio> https://code.launchpad.net/~elopio/ubuntu-rssreader-app/no_swipe_to_delete_direction/+merge/225686
[15:32] <popey> sure
[15:34] <popey> done
[15:36] <DanChapman> nik90_: the only issue I see in jussi's branch is the desktop file name in manifest.json is wrong, see https://code.launchpad.net/~dpniel/ubuntu-clock-app/manifest_fix it's creating click's fine and run on device is working and seems to be all working as should, do you want that fix proposed against jussi's branch?
[15:40] <elopio> popey: that fails because no event is created.
[15:41] <elopio> the test is correct.
[15:42] <elopio> Fail to create items: Cannot create calendar object: Permission denied
[15:42] <elopio> maybe that?
[15:42] <popey> could be
[15:43] <elopio> popey: yes, reproduced manually. +1 of karma to the nice gentlemen who wrote the test :D
[15:44] <popey> :D
[15:46] <popey> so, elopio it's a bug in the code? or the fact that it runs on the desktop without syncmonitor?
[15:46] <popey> i dont understand
[15:46] <elopio> ah, that goes beyond my powers. I have no idea what's syncmonitor.
[15:46] <elopio> I would have to go deeper, but for that I don't have time atm.
[15:47] <popey> its the thing that syncs google calendars
[15:47] <popey> which obviously wont be setup during the test run
[15:49] <elopio> popey: it's saving the event to a calendar called Birthdays & Anniversaires
[15:49] <elopio> why would it try to sync it with google?
[15:50] <popey> ah okay, so it's one of the local calendars its failing to save in
[15:54] <rschroll> I've created a few bugs against the QML toolkit (#1337555, #1337556, #1337694, #1337694).  I'd appreciate it if someone could confirm them and/or tell me what I'm doing wrong.
[16:05] <popey> thanks rschroll
[16:15] <davmor2> popey: DanChapman: why is dekko not under Internet/mail as a category?
[16:20] <popey> davmor2: file a bug
[16:21] <popey> most apps aren't in the right place it seems
[16:38] <zbenjamin> nik90_: did you see dpm's mail about QtC 3.1.1?
[16:52] <nik90_> zbenjamin: just saw it
[16:52] <nik90_> zbenjamin: Is there anything specific you would like me to test?
[16:53] <zbenjamin> nik90_: nothing specific, just check if it works for you
[16:54] <nik90_> zbenjamin: will do
[16:55] <zbenjamin> nik90_: awesome :)
[16:56] <nik90_> DanChapman: thnx mate for looking through it
[16:56] <zbenjamin> nik90_: bzoltan will push a new version to that ppa later, so maybe try to upgrade tomorrow to get all the new goodies ;)
[16:56] <nik90_> DanChapman: since it is a one line fix, I will comment in the original mp
[16:56] <nik90_> zbenjamin: ok
[16:57] <bzoltan> zbenjamin: nik90_: I am dputing in a minute
[16:57] <DanChapman> nik90_: np :-) sounds good to me, i'll drop that branch then
[16:59] <davmor2> popey: DanChapman: https://bugs.launchpad.net/dekko/+bug/1337924   figured out why I couldn't send mail.  In the account setup you don't get the Identities page so the address from is blank effectively
[17:01] <davmor2> popey: let me know if you get that mail please
[17:03] <bzoltan> zbenjamin: nik90_: the latest (5 minutes old) utopic release of the QtC plugin is flying up to the PPA, expect the fresh release in 20 minutes
[17:04] <davmor2> DanChapman: https://bugs.launchpad.net/dekko/+bug/1337931
[17:04] <zbenjamin> bzoltan: awesome :)
[17:05] <nik90_> bzoltan: thnx
[17:08] <davmor2> DanChapman: does dekko only read in on opening?  If so that would explain why the sig is wrong on restarting the app the updated sig is pulled in.
[17:10] <DanChapman> davmor2: \o/ it's not completely busted then :-D . right ok I see the problem there. If no identity is given it should be defaulting back to smtp username so you wouldn't have the fancy "Dan Chapman<EMAIL_ADDRESS>style address but that seems to not be the case. I will also add the identity page to the initial setup
[17:15] <bzoltan> daker: mvo: I start the next landing right away for the QtC. Should I add these MRs? https://code.launchpad.net/~daker/qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu/fix.1335692/+merge/225657 https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu/webapp-template-with-doc/+merge/224759
[17:17] <daker> bzoltan: yes
[17:18] <daker> thanks!
[17:19] <bzoltan> daker: I have had today 3 MRs that could land only in a sequence :) So I can use the opportunity to push in other stuff and test them.
[17:19] <DanChapman> davmor2: no it 'should' be accessible straight after adding a new sig. The sender identity is stored in a U1db doc. Just going to test that out now,
[17:38] <rschroll> Is it recommended to use the UbuntuWebView 0.2, or is it still under development?
[17:49] <daker> rschroll: yes use 0.2, 0.1 will be deprecated soon
[17:51] <rschroll> daker: Does / will it have an equivalent for WebView.experimental.evaluateJavascript?
[17:51] <daker> 0.2 uses oxide while 0.1 uses qtwebkit and it will be removed from the plateform
[17:51] <rschroll> Which is why
[17:52] <rschroll> I'm asking for an equivalent
[17:52] <rschroll> I can't find the API for it anywhere
[17:53] <daker> rschroll: if it doesn't, just report bug against lp:oxide
[17:55] <rschroll> OK.  Is it API documented somewhere, or do I have to introspect it to find out what it has?
[17:59] <daker> rschroll: no but i made this http://daker.me/2014/05/how-to-use-oxide-in-your-ubuntu-qml-application.html
[18:05] <rschroll> Ah - the message API should work for me.
[18:05] <rschroll> Thanks for the help!
[18:11] <daker> rschroll: ok :)
[18:18] <daker> davmor2: hi, when you use the front camera, and start switching btwn photo/video mode
[18:18] <bzoltan> daker: would you please give me a hand and verify that the landing silo has the changes in a way you expect? ppa:ci-train-ppa-service/landing-001 If yes then I can land it still today (before the :) soccer match)
[18:19] <daker> bzoltan: one sec
[18:22] <daker> davmor2: will be back to you
[18:23] <daker> bzoltan: how can i check that ? i am not familliar with that
[18:25] <daker> bzoltan: i am not seeing the first two MRs in the diff
[18:26] <daker> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/179305578/qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu_3.1.1%2B14.10.20140704-0ubuntu1_3.1.1%2B14.10.20140704.1-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
[18:47] <bzoltan> daker: you had three MRs, all three are there.. strange that two of them by [ daker ] and one by [ Adnane Belmadiaf ]
[18:49] <daker> bzoltan: the two MRs by daker are not included in the diff
[18:50] <daker> one touches the desktop file and one the apparmor file
[18:51] <bzoltan> daker:  hmm... let me check what the package contains
[18:51] <daker> ok
[19:00] <bzoltan> daker:  This MR https://code.launchpad.net/~daker/qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu/webapps-valid-json/+merge/222433 has a single -"," diff and that  is correct in the package
[19:00] <bzoltan> daker:  this MR https://code.launchpad.net/~daker/qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu/fix.1327761/+merge/222456 says that there is a single line diff, but I do not see the difference
[19:03] <daker> bzoltan: their is a "-" btwn session & cookies
[19:03] <bzoltan> daker:  ahh...
[19:04] <bzoltan> daker: that is too correct in the package
[19:04] <daker> bzoltan: ok
[19:04] <daker> wirred :)
[19:05] <bzoltan> daker: I do not understand the package diff
[19:06] <daker> if it's in the package then we are ok
[19:07] <bzoltan> daker:  that is what I think too... what is possible that these changes were in the package already. Not impossible that mvo has pushed manually these fixes to the archive, but not to the project trunk.
[19:08] <daker> ok
[19:08] <bzoltan> daker:  yeps... that is exactly the case. The Utopic archive has a package what was released outside of the CI and it has those fixes. From now these fixes will be in the project source too and so will be backported to the LTS. Thanks for your help :)
[19:09] <daker> yw :)
[23:30] <elijh> I am not too ashamed to ask what is probably the most ridiculous question ever: where is the qtcreator menu bar?
[23:31] <elijh> many tutorials, like this one
[23:31] <elijh> http://developer.ubuntu.com/apps/sdk/tutorials/creating-an-sdk-app-project/
[23:32] <elijh> instruct you to open a menu item. when i run qtcreator, i get no menu at all (holds true regardless of setting to put app menu in window title or menu bar)
[23:32] <elijh> i don't have this problem with any other applications (running 14.04). is there something really obvious I am missing?


[04:45] <donofrio> EEK!!! "Errors were encountered while processing: /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-wETfEC/111-ebtables_<IP_ADDRESS>-3.5ubuntu2_amd64.deb E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[04:45] <donofrio> was going from 17.04 to 18.04 using the sources.list change then dist-upgrading
[05:00] <valorie> oh my
[05:01] <valorie> donofrio: have you tried sudo apt install -f ?
[05:03] <valorie> and sudo dpkg-reconfigure -a
[05:03] <donofrio> No I'll try that now
[05:03] <valorie> sometimes one, then the other
[05:03] <valorie> especially install -f
[05:05] <valorie> I made a jump like that that I knew might /maybe wouldn't work
[05:05] <donofrio> its doing the "sudo apt install -f" now
[05:05] <donofrio> I'll report when complete
[05:05] <valorie> and made it work after multiple use of those
[05:06] <CoJaBo> Any other ideas for at least getting a taskbar on a 32-bit install? <_<
[05:06] <donofrio> k taking my daily driver work desktops to 18.04 (http://www.tinyurl.com/donofrioworkdesk)
[05:07] <valorie> yowza
[05:09] <donofrio> stalled'ish at 70% on the man page database.....
[05:09] <donofrio> and now its going lol
[05:14] <donofrio> help stuck - https://apaste.info/xc8m
[05:30] <valorie> donofrio: wow
[05:30] <valorie> I guess you could just copy paste that list of "held back" and hope for the best
[05:31] <valorie> I don't use apt-get anymore
[05:31] <valorie> just apt
[05:31] <valorie> also, I would remove those PPAs
[05:31] <valorie> with ppa-purge probably
[05:32] <valorie> once you are up and running, you can see if they have bionic versions available
[05:32] <valorie> that would have saved you quite a bit of trouble I'm thinking
[05:36] <donofrio> I'm ok I have a backup sorta (untested)
[05:37] <donofrio> would love to run some command to try to heal it, apt/dpkg I'm ready try anything to "help out"
[05:42] <lotuspsychje> donofrio: best way to help testing is on a vanilla bionic
[05:46] <donofrio> I'll set one up do you have the powerpc iso ;)
[05:47] <valorie> well, the way I healed mine was apt install -f and dpkg-reconfigure -a in a cycle
[06:00] <donofrio> valorie, I'm getting this one second pass - https://apaste.info/N7tk
[06:01] <valorie> ugh, I guess i'd use --force
[06:01] <valorie> then
[06:02] <valorie> or.... try --all
[06:02] <valorie> that's what a used to do
[06:04] <donofrio> I must e doing some wrongcause the force asks for a package and the all seems to be invalid?
[06:06] <donofrio> I believe its this "dpkg: warning: old ebtables package pre-removal script subprocess returned error exit status 1"
[06:10] <valorie> well then, how about dpkg-reconfigure ebtables ?
[06:11] <valorie> I know it's fun to fix a bad install, but it's good to know you have a backup
[06:11] <valorie> at some point you will probably want to do a fresh install
[06:34] <williamlin_> Will the gnome in ubuntu 18.04 have the global menu?
[06:34] <donofrio> trying that now..
[06:35] <lotuspsychje> williamlin_: gnome3 has activities & the icon start button with all programs
[06:35] <donofrio> moreover how do I put that package in blacklist (or to inhibit it's installation?)
[06:39] <williamlin_> I talk about that global App menu which will always be in the top bar, like designed in unity7 or mac osx.
[06:43] <williamlin_> Because the global menu will save vertical space in screen, which is a good design especially for laptop.
[06:53] <donofrio> I'm back robocopy saved the day and got my build working again, keep in context I'm a WSL user (http://www.tinyurl.com/donofrioworkdesk) and this was a test on my right side desktop, it almost worked except it got upset that last package
[06:54] <valorie> good to hear, donofrio
[06:54] <donofrio> sorta was told 17.04 is going out of support so I'll need to get to 18.04 soon'ish
[06:55] <valorie> it is eol right now, yes
[06:55] <valorie> 17.10 is supported for another 6 months or so
[06:55] <donofrio> so what can I do to see if I can blacklist that package from upgrade or what?
[06:55] <valorie> what package?
[06:56] <valorie> you can pin
[06:56] <valorie> !pin
[06:56] <donofrio> ebtables
[06:56] <valorie> pretty fiddly
[06:59] <donofrio> well if you can think of I'm thing I'm all ears and will try anything to get to 18.04 within WSL ;)
[07:00] <donofrio> is there a core server uimage of bionic as of yet (can we have powerpc back please)
[07:01] <donofrio> cause I'm stuck currently at 4.4.0-109-powerpc64-smp ppc64 on my powerpc boxes
[07:02] <valorie> what is WSL?
[07:02] <donofrio> Windows Subsystem for Linux
[07:03] <donofrio> its in my powerpoint ;)
[07:03] <valorie> ok
[07:03] <donofrio> stuff about pico drivers and the like
[07:03] <valorie> the less I have to do with windows, the happier I am
[07:03] <donofrio> its how windows can run native ELF64 execuctables
[07:03] <valorie> right
[07:04] <valorie> we have wine, "they" have WSL
[07:04] <donofrio> if I had a v,ware mdm/airwatch client I'd be able to stay with native ubuntu
[07:04] <valorie> I guess
[07:04] <donofrio> vmware I meant
[07:04] <donofrio> right now as far as I know one doesn't exist yet
[07:04] <donofrio> so I'm using windows 10 as a 15gb bootloader
[07:05] <donofrio> it's been a great ride so far (check out the 1drv links (ignore login jazz) and you can see how I use it daily to get to ubuntu goodness
[07:09] <valorie> is this just a lark, or is there some reason not to just dual boot
[07:09] <donofrio> no I cannot faul boot with corp work desktop ther is no vmware mdm/client/agent for linux only windows and android/iphone
[07:10] <donofrio> so i'm stuck with windows 01 and wsk to get ubuntu 17.04/18/04 running for daily middleware work
[07:13] <valorie> hmmm, I think I would run win then and use vmware or whatever to run kubuntu I mean ubuntu
[07:13] <valorie> but you know your own situation best
[07:17] <donofrio> I'm still here for when someone thinks of what I can do to get dist upgrade past the ebtables issue, it worked this way fine when I went from 16.04 to 17.04 on my left and right desktops but now right gets broken on that package, but I lurk and let me know I'm here ;)
[07:20] <valorie> did you try pinning it?
[07:20] <valorie> and honestly, apt full-upgrade seems better than dist-upgrade was
[07:21] <valorie> but maybe I just prefer the minimal simple APT
[13:32] <donofrio> valorie, the file exists https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/ebtables (http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu/pool/main/e/ebtables/ebtables_<IP_ADDRESS>-3.5ubuntu2_amd64.deb) just do not know why this one package would have an issue with 500+ upgraded fine to bionic
[13:32] <donofrio> anyone else want powerpc64 arch back (I know I do)
[14:43] <donofrio> looks like my left machine took bionic upgrade well...checking now...(starting xfce4 on my wsl windows10 install ;)
[14:45] <donofrio> still says its 17.04??
[14:45] <donofrio> weird...
[14:46] <donofrio> so what'd I do wrong? https://apaste.info/yQHl
[15:09] <donofrio> anyone got time to help guide me in an upgrade to 18.04 (bionic) I tried but its not working? https://apaste.info/yQHl
[15:13] <albert23> donofrio: I don't think you can upgrade directly from 17.04 to 18.04. You need to go via 17.10
[15:14] <SwedeMike> ubuntu only supports upgrading one version at a time, or between LTS versions.
[15:28] <donofrio> I went from 16.04 to 17.04 safely this way, done many like perhaps 50 install/upgrades like this......only had issues with ebtables and now this weird done updating but no packages new seen issue today....
[15:41] <donofrio> I'm here to try anything you good folks think of....I know this process works just do not know why it hung on my right desktop at ebtables was upset and now I do not know why left desktop seems to be in the middle of 17.04 and 18.04 after upgraded finished it's still 17.04 (my setup fwiw - http://www.tinyurl.com/donofrioworkdesk - skip any onedrive logins)
[15:43] <CoJaBo> Doesn't look like Kubuntu has any hope of running on 32-bit :/  wonder what my odds are for trying Lubuntu
[15:44] <donofrio> CoJaBo, 32 bit is dead (at least for me it is)
[15:44] <CoJaBo> Firefox still supports it, which is the main thing I need. Just wish I could find an OS that'll remain supported for a while to go with it <_<
[15:45] <CoJaBo> Not even Lxqt runs
[16:49] <hggdh> donofrio: the *ONLY* way to upgrade from 17.04 to 18.04 is 17.04->17.10, 17.10->18.04
[16:49] <hggdh> if you change your repositories by hand, you are on your own
[16:54] <dax> and, to be clear, it will usually work. and when it doesn't work, you get to keep both pieces.
[16:55] <dax> (which is why "but i always do this" is not a particularly good response to us pointing out that it isn't supported)
[16:56] <hggdh> and, to be even clearer, it is like walking across a road with your eyes closed. It will work. But, if a car hits you, things go bad.
[16:56] <nacc> lol
[17:07] <TJ-> Are we sure about that? I'd swear I read about support for it being added/planned on the -devel  mailing-list or in -devel channel some time ago
[17:08] <dax> not that i know of. would be nice if so, though, i've always found the idea of do-release-upgrade to be a bit silly
[17:08] <dax> what with Grandpa Debian not needing it and all
[17:10] <nacc> TJ-: support for which?
[17:13] <TJ-> I was right, there's an email from Brian (Murray) dated 19/07/17 "Changes to do-release-upgrade and meta-release files" ... in which he says "...One change implemented some time ago was for the release upgrade process to skip unsupported releases if you are running a supported release." He goes on to give an example of 16.04 > 17.04 if 16.10 had EOLed, and 16.04 > 17.10 when 17.04 had EOLed
[17:13] <nacc> yes
[17:13] <nacc> that will work
[17:13] <nacc> but 17.04 is eol :)
[17:14] <TJ-> but if you run d-r-u on 17.04 it'll fetch the upgrader files for 17.10 won't it?
[17:14] <dax> oh, that's different from what i thought. oh well.
[17:15] <TJ-> sorry, 17.10/18.04 (once 18.04 is released)
[17:15] <dax> (i already knew about skipping EOL releases)
[17:15] <nacc> TJ-: right, it *might*; but the supported path is only starting at a supported release
[17:16] <nacc> so i'm not sure if it's ever tested :)
[17:16] <dax> and it isn't using sources.list and dist-upgrade
[17:16] <hggdh> oh, the plot thickens
[17:16] <dax> and the current situation doesn't skip any unsupported releases
[17:17] <nacc> fun :)
[17:18] <TJ-> nacc: Seeing as d-r-u actually downloads the updater code *from a supported release* which does the upgrade, it's arguable the upgrade from an EOL /should/ be supported
[17:18] <nacc> TJ-: right, I agree it could be; but it'd add to the test matrix
[17:19] <nacc> which is already arguably not 100% covered :)
[17:21] <TJ-> Well, the only assumption d-r-u makes is that the /currently running/ release has all packages up-to-date. So it could automically change sources.list to use old-releases to assure that state, before kicking off the actual d-r-u, which would be identical state if the /currently running/ release were not EOL. Otherwise the argument is only about a time - 1 minute before midnight = not EOL = works/supported,
[17:21] <TJ-> 1 minute after midnight = EOL - not supported
[17:33] <donofrio> hggdh, so how do I upgrade from 17.04 to 17.10 then 17.10 to 18.04?
[17:39] <nacc> !eolupgrade | donofrio
[17:39] <nacc> first part; then d-r-u -d presuambly
[17:39] <donofrio> yes 17.04 is EOL
[17:39] <donofrio> drud?
[17:39] <nacc> donofrio: do-release-upgrade -d
[17:39] <nacc> donofrio: so you EOL upgrade then devel release upgrade
[17:40] <donofrio> do-release-upgrade doesn't seem to work all the time that is why I went for the sources.list all the time
[17:40] <nacc> donofrio: did you read what i wrote?
[17:40] <donofrio> but I'll try it now and see
[17:40] <donofrio> yes I read it
[17:41] <donofrio> nacc, it returned "Upgrades to the development release are only available from the latest supported release."
[17:41] <nacc> donofrio: what release are you on?
[17:42] <donofrio> 17.04
[17:42] <nacc> donofrio: right
[17:42] <nacc> donofrio: so... you didn't read what i wrote?
[17:42] <nacc> donofrio: first, upgrade to 17.10
[17:42] <donofrio> I read that
[17:42] <nacc> donofrio: then d-r-u to 18.04
[17:42] <donofrio> I'm asking how
[17:42] <nacc> donofrio: follow the eol upgrade wiki page
[17:43] <nacc> do you see why i might think you didn't read what i wrote?
[17:43] <donofrio> this is ubuntu+1 so I fiogured you folks would be able to help get me to the next version
[17:43] <nacc> alright, good luck to you donofrio; we have helped, afaict.
[17:45] <donofrio> nacc, it's intresting you say I've not read "and good luck to me" and that I shouldn't edit sources list when the send step in the EOL guide you linked states "update your sources.list with "CODENAME: reupdate your sources.list with "CODENAME: release" and that is what I've been doing all along....
[17:45] <donofrio> nacc, and the EOL guide states most recent version is 12.04 lol
[17:46] <donofrio> you see now why I ask for help.....the info is not even currenty
[17:46] <nacc> donofrio: edit it *to* old-releases
[17:46] <nacc> donofrio: not edit it to the next release
[17:46] <nacc> donofrio: so ... when i mean read, i mean read correctly?
[17:47] <nacc> donofrio: and i see one mention of 12.04 on the page, which does not say 'most recent version'
[17:47] <nacc> donofrio: it has specific upgrade guidance, but since 12.04, the steps work without specific guidance.
[17:48] <donofrio> I'm just wondering why do I need to go from TLS to non-tls when I'm already out of TLS and want to jump one build to 18.04....
[17:50] <donofrio> what do I do with security.ubuuntu do I change it to "http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/" as well?
[17:50] <donofrio> in the sources.list
[17:50] <donofrio> I put it back to zesty
[17:50] <donofrio> fwiw
[17:55] <nacc> donofrio: zesty-security
[17:55] <nacc> donofrio: what? (to your question)
[17:55] <donofrio> yah already edited it...hope this all works
[17:55] <nacc> "why do i need to go from LTS (sic) to non-lts (sic)"
[17:55] <donofrio> nothing right now cause I'm following the steps...as outlined
[17:55] <nacc> you are not starting at a LTS, so I'm not sure what you're asking
[17:57] <donofrio> it's ok I'm just doing what you wanted me to do....I'll let you know if/where I trip up...
[18:04] <donofrio> nacc, well my forehead hit the floor just now (aka I tripped) https://apaste.info/I5qJ
[18:05] <nacc> donofrio: are you on a server or desktop?
[18:12] <donofrio> workstation (http://www.tinyurl.com/donofrioworkdesk - on the left desktop now)
[18:12] <nacc> donofrio: no, i mean are you running ubuntu server or desktop?
[18:13] <donofrio> oh the base is ubuntu cloud server that I added 600+ packages to get my current desktop
[18:13] <nacc> donofrio: do you have a GUI?
[18:14] <donofrio> yes, you've not seen any of the photo's i'm guessing.....turn your graphics back on....lol
[18:14] <nacc> donofrio: you can just answer my questions
[18:14] <nacc> i don't really care about the photots
[18:15] <donofrio> that is the point, I mean if I did the inverse and said I do not care about words just photo's you'd still be telling me to follow the guide and good day, here I'm giving all the details on how my box is built and your like I don't care about photo's...so yah weird...
[18:15] <nacc> in theory, you can resolve the apt issue above with `sudo apt-get install update-manager-core update-manager python3-aptdaemon.gtk3widgets gir1.2-gtk-3.0 ubuntu-release-upgrade-gtk update-notifier` but are you running gnome?
[18:16] <donofrio> trying upgrade without -d
[18:16] <nacc> donofrio: the physical layout of your box is irrelevant
[18:16] <donofrio> it's working on artful updates now
[18:16] <donofrio> it shows that yes I run xfce4
[18:16] <nacc> donofrio: ah that's the issue, i think
[18:16] <nacc> donofrio: probably gtk itself isn't installed, and so it is missing the deps
[18:16] <nacc> not 100%
[18:17] <nacc> TJ-: dax: not sure here, but i think in post-16.04, update-manager itself my not be required nymore (update-manager-core might be sufficient)
[18:18] <donofrio> not looking for quick answers to things just answers to how do I get to 18.04 without much issues...even now I don't think its working but I cannot snip it for you cause update-manager doesn't allow scroolback?
[18:20] <nacc> donofrio: well the simplest answer is reinstall; if you want to upgrade, then don't let your release go EOL; if you already did, then you have to follow the above guide, which works for most people
[18:22] <TJ-> nacc: u-m-c - yes, I think that's the but that talks to changelogs.u.c.
[18:22] <nacc> TJ-: yeah that's my recollection too
[18:24] <donofrio> nacc, you folks say that I waited too long and the #ubuntu folks are like 18.04 is not even out your fine at 17.04 lol
[18:24] <nacc> donofrio: who said that in #ubuntu?
[18:24] <donofrio> uh I'll see ifI can find it....
[18:24] <nacc> donofrio: also, don't rely on anyone on IRC; read the release notes, know your support timmelines, read the EOL announcements, etc.
[18:26] <donofrio> k
[18:26] <nacc> all of the above is public and well-established (even if the dates aren't specific, the month is pretty consistent)
[18:30] <TJ-> nacc: I reported a bug for changelogs.u.c last week; no GPG signing of meta-release, no HTTPS. Was talking to mdeslaur about EOLs too and we wondered if adding a new field to meta-release stanzas could help here. "EOLdate: YYYY-MM-DD" and then update-manager could be taught to warn users early (say starting a month before, then weekly, then last 7 days)
[18:30] <nacc> TJ-: seems worthwhile
[18:31] <TJ-> bug #1744318
[19:19] <donofrio> nacc, ok I put back my backup into place then started again on the guide provided, I'm getting ok once I apt-get update but when I try to apt-get install update-manager it selects like 94 packages to be installed as well then I got this error after like 10 min of installing "Unpacking libc6-dbg:amd64 (2.24-9ubuntu2.2) ...Errors were encountered while processing:  /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-1NE9EU/69-packagekit_1.1.5-2ubuntu1_amd64.deb
[19:19] <donofrio> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)root@WSAL0013:~#"
[19:21] <nacc> it didn't emit the error code, donofrio
[19:21] <nacc> ?
[19:22] <donofrio> it did error code (1)
[19:22] <donofrio> as root
[19:23] <nacc> donofrio: oh sorry, it was wrapped here, i didn't notice
[19:23] <nacc> can you pastebin the full log? it should be in /var/log/dpkg.log and /var/log/apt/term.log
[19:24] <donofrio> sure thing
[19:26] <donofrio> dpkg log http://paste.ubuntu.com/26439436/
[19:27] <donofrio> terl-log at http://paste.ubuntu.com/26439441/
[19:27] <nacc> dpkg: error processing archive /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-1NE9EU/69-packagekit_1.1.5-2ubuntu1_amd64.deb (--unpack):
[19:27] <nacc>  unable to stat './var/lib/polkit-1' (which I was about to install): Input/output error
[19:27] <nacc> hrm
[19:27] <nacc> i don't know why it was doing a relative path
[19:28] <nacc> can you run `apt-get -f install` ?
[19:28] <donofrio> sure thing
[19:29] <donofrio> ;( https://apaste.info/m0WA
[19:31] <hggdh> sounds like the package is hosed
[19:31] <hggdh> re-download?
[19:31] <nacc> yeah that's a weird error (unfamiliar to me)
[19:32] <donofrio> how do redo?
[19:32] <donofrio> hggdh, I'm pulling from "old-releases" fwiw
[19:35] <TJ-> did the system run out of space?
[19:36] <donofrio> TJ-, http://paste.ubuntu.com/26439526/
[19:42] <hggdh> donofrio: that's OK. But dpkg could not stat a file that *should* be in the package. A chance is download failure (what whatever reason)
[19:42] <TJ-> donofrio: what the hell!?!?!
[19:43] <TJ-> nacc: seen that df !!?
[19:43] <donofrio> how do I restart the download process?
[19:43] <nacc> TJ-: yeah, i assume it's a container or vm
[19:43] <nacc> with one disk bind mounted all over
[19:43] <TJ-> donofrio: is this bare-metal, VM, or container?
[19:43] <donofrio> its windows 10 w/WSL (www.tinyurl.com/donofrioworkdesk - it outlines my setup and steps I used to build it)
[19:43] <nacc> right
[19:43] <donofrio> currently at 17.04 with xfce
[19:43] <nacc> donofrio: you do this every time
[19:43] <nacc> donofrio: WSL is *not* ubuntu
[19:44] <donofrio> I know that it's the pico drivers that allow ubuntu to run as a userspace setup
[19:44] <nacc> (by every, i mean in #ubuntu)
[19:44] <donofrio> yes I use windows 10 as a 15gb bootloader to get to ubuntu for my daily use)
[19:44] <donofrio> been this way for over 9 months now ;)
[19:44] <donofrio> figured itover 9 months now ;)
[19:45] <nacc> donofrio: and did you upgrade from 16.10 to 17.04?
[19:45] <donofrio> f'igured its time to upgrade...now I'm way lost lol
[19:45] <donofrio> yes
[19:45] <donofrio> 16.10 is tls and that is what M$ supports
[19:45] <nacc> 16.04 is lts.
[19:45] <nacc> not 16.10
[19:45] <donofrio> yah my bad
[19:45] <nacc> and again, lts
[19:46] <nacc> tls is somethig altogether differnt
[19:46] <hggdh> oh this is WSL, not a real install
[19:46] <nacc> donofrio: right, so neither ubuntu (because WSL) or Microsoft (because not supported) support you
[19:46] <nacc> please stop using up volunteers time to support unsupported (as you well know) installations
[19:46] <nacc> super annoying
[19:46] <donofrio> 16.04 to 17.04 using sources.list method it was like butter 700+ packages downloaded and poof it all works great) now that I'm trying to go from 17.04 to 18.04 I'm being told to goto 17.10 first then to 18.04 so nI'm trying that but do not know how to recover/restart the update process
[19:47] <donofrio> nacc is in the creators (sp2) update so its supported (just not the GUI work that I use daily)
[19:47] <nacc> donofrio: *by microsoft*
[19:47] <nacc> not by ubuntu
[19:48] <hggdh> I only used WSL once, when released -- I had, at the time, a Windows machine available.
[19:48] <hggdh> But at the time we had Ubuntu *core* on WSL, not a full Ubuntu DE
[19:48] <donofrio> the only reason (well there are a few others like dynamic domain name updates and the like) I went to windows10 was because ubuntu doesn't have a vmware airwatch client
[19:49] <donofrio> so I'm stuck with windows....
[19:49] <nacc> donofrio: the reason you are on windows is irrelevant. You know what is supported where and by whom.
[19:49] <hggdh> What I mean is I am not even sure if this is doable. Perhaps the best change would be #windows? What are the channels for WSL?
[19:50] <nacc> !ubuwin
[19:50] <donofrio> hu?  yes I goto #ubuntu-on-windows when I have to...#windows says goto ubuntu or ubuntu-on-windows channels
[19:50] <donofrio> that is what I typed lol
[19:50] <nacc> hggdh: i've said this to donofrio many times, so i know they know
[19:50] <donofrio> 'faster than a macro' lol
[19:50] <nacc> donofrio: right, so you know not to ask in #ubuntu
[19:50] <donofrio> no I ask there too
[19:51] <donofrio> many people are using WSL these days (abet bash only) but they are growing each day - cannot stick head in sand forever folks....
[19:52] <donofrio> I'm just trying to get 17.04 install to 18.04 and I guess I need to rerun update to forcde it to redownload?
[19:52] <nacc> donofrio: ... yes we can
[19:52] <nacc> donofrio: becuase it is not supported by ubuntu!
[19:52] <hggdh> donofrio: what you are trying to do is new, (at least for me) unexpected, and potentially dangerous
[19:53] <hggdh> WSL *may* need specific thingies; WSL was supposed to be pure terminal (it used Ubuntu *CORE*, which has no DE)
[19:55] <donofrio> hggdh, I install about 700+ packages xfce* and all dependencies and it's been working great for over 9 months now, I was late to the start when I found about this last june others have been using it for over a year tback then....
[19:55] <CoJaBo> What do I need to install to get just the Lubuntu taskbar/panel? Trying to get, ideally, some of Kubuntu Bionic running on an old (32-bit) machine
[19:56]  * CoJaBo might just reinstall to fully Lubuntu anyway, but I want to make sure the taskbar actually works first >_>
[19:56] <donofrio> anyways nacc or others when your ubuntu does that error "Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/packagekit_1.1.5-2ubuntu1_amd64.deb" but I do not know how to restart the download (do I clear a package prestage directory?)
[19:56] <hggdh> donofrio: as I said, I do not use WSL anymore (no WIndows available). I cannot answer if this is kosher or not.
[19:56] <donofrio> hggdh, proceed as that this WSL and a physical install are they same
[19:56] <hggdh> donofrio: your option now is to delete the downloaded offending package, and retry.
[19:56] <hggdh> donofrio: ... no, it is not. But, anyways.
[19:57] <donofrio> thatis what I'm wondering what directory are they all stored in?
[19:57] <hggdh> usually packages are downloaded under /var/apt/archive
[19:57] <nacc> donofrio: ... it gives you the path?
[19:57] <donofrio> k
[19:58] <donofrio> hggdh, no apt under /var as root ;(
[19:58] <nacc> donofrio: read the message from the error
[19:58] <nacc> donofrio: it gives you the exact path
[19:58] <donofrio> ;( http://paste.ubuntu.com/26439656/
[19:59] <donofrio> cache ok thanks you I canread after all lol
[19:59] <nacc> donofrio: ... not sure what that paste was for?
[20:01] <donofrio> just shows that a directory was missed it's in /var/cache/apt is all
[20:02] <hggdh> yes,my bad, sorry, gave you the wrong directory
[20:03] <donofrio> hggdh, it's cool, just threw me....
[20:07] <donofrio> rerunning do-release-upgrade again
[20:07] <donofrio> seems to be fetching the files now...
[20:09] <donofrio> do any of you good folks run debian-noroot from playstore on android note 5 (or equalablity to run userspace on android would rock)
[20:10] <nacc> donofrio: that seems rather offtopic
[20:12] <donofrio> sorta, I mean ubuntu came from debian, but yes somewhat OT just didn't know if anyone here kept ubuntu running in there pocket (on the node 5 orother devices)
[20:15] <nacc> donofrio: this isn't the ubuntu support channel, this is the pre-release support channel for ubuntu (e.g, 18.04 only)
[20:15] <nacc> donofrio: but further, phone is not supported here
[20:20] <donofrio> ok so lets see how the upgrade is going (after all I'm only here cause #ubuntu wouldn't talk about 18.04 and that is what I believe I need) can we please get back powerpc (just sayin)
[20:20] <nacc> donofrio: uh, what?
[20:21] <donofrio> yah powerpc some of us still have imac's and G5's and G4 TiBooks and the like....now they all anguish at 16.04 ;(
[20:22] <nacc> donofrio: how is that ontopic?
[20:22] <donofrio> looking for 18.04 for powerpc I guess.....
[20:22] <donofrio> :)
[20:22] <nacc> donofrio: also you have support on 16.04 until 2021
[20:22] <hggdh> not here, please
[20:22] <nacc> donofrio: so ... no, not ontopic
[20:22] <donofrio> nacc, oh reall kewl
[20:23] <nacc> donofrio: really? i honestly cannot tell if you're trying to troll the channel or not
[20:23] <donofrio> no not trolling at all.....
[20:23] <donofrio> just have a lot of thoughts in my head....
[20:23] <hggdh> then please -- please -- stay on topic
[20:23] <donofrio> k
[20:27] <donofrio> guess I'll just stay 16.04 :( https://apaste.info/W3yr
[20:29] <hggdh> donofrio: or,perhaps, check with the real sources of WSL?
[20:29] <donofrio> real sources?
[20:29] <donofrio> uservoice would say talk to you folks....
[20:30] <hggdh> "Linux" runs under Windows because Microsoft programmed an interface. It woul stand to reason that Microsoft would be the best bet on what can be done
[20:30] <nacc> donofrio: for the last time, WSL is not ubuntu, and is not supported here or in #ubuntu
[20:31] <donofrio> hggdh, nah they would just defferr because this is a program/script issue and not anything related to pico or it's drivers
[20:31] <hggdh> ...


[01:46] <AvilanceStudios> Hey guys :)
[04:03] <dmac> Hi
[04:04] <dmac> somebody can help me with the suspend action after critical battery status, isn't working
[04:05] <dmac> always shutdown instead suspend
[05:46] <anto79> ciao a tutti
[05:46] <anto79> !list
[05:46] <anto79> sorry
[05:51] <hateball> xD
[06:00] <lordievader> Good morning
[06:46] <_Wens_> Hi! How to enable full disk encryption during installation kubuntu 18.04.1? I need volumes: boot(not encrypted),swap, / and home.
[06:57] <_Wens_> checkbox "Use entire disk and set up LVM" create / and swap volumes only :(
[06:59] <_Wens_> sorry checkbox "Use entire disk and set up encrypted LVM" of course
[07:16] <lordievader> Encryption and normal partitioning ain't an option anymore?
[07:26] <_Wens_> lordievader I am not find encryption option in manual disk setup
[07:30] <lordievader> It used to be an option IIRC.
[10:34] <jozo> hi
[10:34] <jozo> search & replace is not working in kate
[10:34] <jozo> is it known bug ?
[10:35] <jozo> is it due to localisation ?
[10:36] <hateball> jozo: what version of kubuntu is this?
[10:36] <hateball> search and replace certainly works for me on 18.04 at least, and I cant recall it not working on 16.04 either
[10:36] <jozo> it is 18.04 with latest updates
[10:37] <jozo> i have krusader also
[10:37] <jozo> and in krusader editor it is working
[10:37] <jozo> but in kate it is not - it says 159 replacements but text in editor is not changed
[11:38] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[11:46] <jozo> ok found issue
[11:46] <jozo> file is opened in kate as utf-8
[11:47] <jozo> and containss some invalid characters
[11:47] <jozo> then kate refuse text replacement
[11:47] <jozo> can be this ignored ?
[12:12] <Dragnslcr> jozo- under the Tools menu, there should be a checkbox for Read Only
[12:14] <Dragnslcr> jozo- as the warning message says, though, keep in mind that saving the file might change it in ways that you didn't want to
[12:25] <aniket> heyy
[12:26] <aniket> is someone online here??
[12:29] <BluesKaj> !ask | aniket
[12:32] <aniket> may i dm someone?
[12:33] <BluesKaj> just ask your question here, so we can all see your issue, better chance of proper support that way
[12:33] <BluesKaj> aniket,^
[12:34] <aniket> ok.. How do i connect to another channel. when i do ctrl+j, after that
[12:34] <aniket> should i type any random name with #? like #example
[12:35] <hateball> aniket: that all depends on your client
[12:35] <hateball> aniket: typically you type: /join #somechannel
[12:46] <jozo> why KDE is not able to set up correctly kmz icon theme ?
[12:46] <jozo> in ubuntu it works
[13:50] <piterke> witam jest moze ktos z polski
[13:59] <mparillo_> !pl
[16:19] <user|89313> Hello, I got one wifi password dialogue after the other, to fill in - slightly different lay-out. Can anyone explain?
[16:21] <user|89313> ...how is that NOT most likely a spoof to capture a password?
[16:24] <user|89313> wake me up if i fall asleep
 user|89313: are you using Kubuntu 18.04, or an earlier version?
[17:45] <user1080> hi
[17:52] <N3X15> What's the recommended VNC server to use with Kubuntu 18.04.1 (bionic)?  TightVNC just crashes on startup.
[18:06] <Billy_Greece> I boot from Kubuntu_18.04_Live (flash) . The target disk (for installing Kubuntu) has some files i need to take but it seems that i don't have the privillages ..  1st ) may i copy and use the data from the mozilla on 16.04 to the "new" on 18.04  ??  ( passwords , history , etc ) ??    2nd ) when i try to access (from the 18.04 Live ) thn hidden fol
[18:06] <Billy_Greece> der .mozilla i get the message " Could not enter folder /media/kubuntu/f58b9b5d-572e-4070-8c1c-350be6bd9c4f/home/vasileios/.mozilla.    " ( How do i upgrade my privillages , IF this is the problem )  ?? Thunks ;)
[18:16] <N3X15> OK, so Krfb works.
[18:16] <N3X15> Ignore my prior question.
[22:39] <madLyfe> are these options mounting all devices at boot or login? https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/VIHqp81n/image.png


  Mon français est mauvais.
[15:19] <fader_> All I can do is quote song lyrics :P
[15:20] <fagan> Hah
[15:20] <fagan> It means ham or arm
[15:21] <fagan> Depending on context
[15:21]  * fagan trys to get in with the IRC greetings lingo
[15:23] <fader_> fagan: It's all about the foux da fa fa :)
[15:25] <fagan> :)
[15:26] <fagan> Its actually a good song IMO
[15:32] <fagan> Oh fader_ I saw this http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current why cant we have that for hwdb.ubuntu.com?
[15:33]  * fagan really wants a public access hwdb from the checkbox results
[15:34] <fagan> But I presume the computers on your list went through harder tests
[15:36] <fader_> fagan: It's a combination of a lot of things that makes it difficult to report on the hwdb :(
[15:36] <fader_> We don't have the same machines being tested on a daily basis, so it's difficult to establish a baseline
[15:37] <fader_> We can run more intensive and/or destructive tests in the lab
[15:37] <fader_> There's a lot of possibility for human error in more widespread testing
[15:37] <fagan> Ah
[15:37] <fader_> And unfortunately there's not a great way of extracting the result data in aggregate from hwdb at the moment
[15:37] <fagan> Well thats always the risk with community submissions
[15:38] <fader_> The good news is that we all want this data to be more useful and more visible, and cr3 has been on a holy quest to figure a lot of this out :)
[15:38] <fader_> (Not that I'm promising anything on his behalf; just saying that people are thinking about it and working on it :) )
[15:39] <fagan> Well good
[15:39]  * fagan wants to be able to broadcast the fact his computer is working fine
[16:23] <cr3> sbeattie: hey dude, got a minute to discuss qa-regression-testing in mainstream checkbox?
[16:25] <sbeattie> sure
[16:26]  * sbeattie is still a bit under-caffienated, so may not be entirely coherent
[16:26] <cr3> sbeattie: I'd like to push the qrt integration into main, but I'm not sure how this should be presented to the community
[16:26] <cr3> sbeattie: qrt has a couple major implications: 500Mb download and destructive
[16:27] <sbeattie> by "pushed into main" what do you main?
[16:27] <cr3> sbeattie: so that when you install lucid, you can potentially run the qrt yourself
[16:28] <sbeattie> I think the security team has some objections to having it packaged in the regular archive; a daily build style ppa may make more sense.
[16:28] <jdstrand> jeez no
[16:28] <sbeattie> (packages in the archive get stale and are unchanging)
[16:29] <jdstrand> it's huge, not audited and will be hard to maintain
[16:29] <sbeattie> see the ubuntu-qa-tools package for a package example that's *way* behind the current bzr tree.
[16:29] <jdstrand> maybe a script that pulls down the bzr branch would be ok...
[16:30] <cr3> sbeattie: if you recall, the integration of qrt branches it so there's no packaging implications
[16:30] <cr3> sbeattie: have a look at my branch: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~cr3/checkbox/qrt
[16:31] <cr3> sbeattie: the integration just consists of suites/qa_regression.txt.in and scripts/qa_regression_suite
[16:31] <sbeattie> ah!
[16:31] <cr3> sbeattie: so, the concern is strictly user experience related, ie how should we prevent users from shooting themselves in the foot (or head) by accidentally running the qrt
[16:33] <cr3> sbeattie: I would propose a couple options which can easily be implemented:
[16:33] <cr3> 1. have the qrt suite unselected by default when listing all the suites in checkbox;
[16:34] <cr3> 2. have the qrt suite not appear at all in the list of suites, checkbox would need to pass a command line parameter to present the qrt suite in that list
[16:35] <cr3> personally, since qrt seems to be targetted to a small audience considering its destructive nature, I'd be inclined towards option #2.
[16:35] <cr3> what do you think?
[16:35] <sbeattie> cr3: do you ship with other suites that are disabled by default?
[16:35] <cr3> sbeattie: nope, this is a first :)
[16:35] <cr3> sbeattie: typically, those other suites are internal but I see no reason to keep qrt internal
[16:36] <cr3> but I do see a reason to keep it disabled by default for obvious reasons
[16:36] <cr3> sbeattie: what would you say if I added the option --we-love-sbeattie to enable the qrt suite?
[16:37] <sbeattie> something like that (--danger-will-robinson-danger) would be fine.
[16:38] <sbeattie> mago is packaged independently, correct?
[16:38] <cr3> sbeattie: nah, I do the same as for qrt: the script branches the latest code. except that I only use mago internally
[16:39] <cr3> sbeattie: typically, I appreciate how test suites don't necessarily benefit from being packaged in order to always use the latest code. so, I privilege referring to the rcs repositories
[16:40] <cr3> sbeattie: that's also what I do with autotest (even though it's been packaged for RH) and ltp (some of which has been packaged)
[16:40] <kees> cr3: qrt is not appropriate to be packaged -- it changes frequently and is highly destructive to a system.
[16:40]  * sbeattie assumes that if mago isn't destructive now, it will be someday; changing configs, putting windows in odd states (e.g. --geometry 6000x100), etc.)
[16:40] <kees> whenever qrt changes, all prior releases would need to be SRU'd.  it'd be crazy
[16:40] <cr3> kees: you can package it as "autodestruct-button"
[16:41] <sbeattie> kees: yep, we're all agreed on that.
[16:41] <kees> cr3: just download it from bzr, and use the bzr revision for tracking.
[16:41] <jdstrand> what's wrong with providing a script to download it?
[16:41] <cr3> kees: done already
[16:41] <kees> which is done already?
[16:41] <jdstrand> and have checkbox use that
[16:41] <cr3> kees: the concern is not that, it's how this is presented to an enduser
[16:41] <sbeattie> kees: the script for downloading.
[16:41] <cr3> kees: qrt is already integrated by branching
[16:42] <kees> qrt doesn't make sense for enduers.  it is not a _system_ testing tree (you want system tests to go to users).  it is a _software_ testing tree, used by the distro to prove out the software before we release.
[16:42] <cr3> sbeattie: man, kees and jdstrand are lagging on our conversation :)
[16:42] <jdstrand> heh
[16:42] <jdstrand> sorry, this comment was a bit scary:
[16:42] <jdstrand> 10:26 < cr3> sbeattie: I'd like to push the qrt integration into main
[16:45] <cr3> so, what would you guys think about this: qrt is integrated in checkbox by having a script that branches qrt and runs all those tests which can be automated. however, the qrt suite is blacklisted by default and endusers are never exposed to it. so, in order to run the suite, you need to remove the blacklist either in the configuration file or at the command line.
[16:46] <jdstrand> that sounds sane. as long as it isn't discoverable via the gui and appropriate warnings are in place around the config option or in the man page/help
[16:46] <kees> sure.  as long as the internal testing uses qrt
[16:46] <cr3> another option would be to provide a separate package, such as checkbox-qrt, which just provides the qrt integration scripts which would branch as described above. my concern is that it would seem overkill to just create a package for that
[16:46] <cr3> jdstrand: agreed
[16:47] <cr3> kees: yep, the blacklist would simply be overridden when performing internal testing
[16:47] <cr3> kees: the advantage is that if there's any doubt about the internal testing, then all the tools available to reproduce the tests being done internally are readily available to everyone
[16:48] <cr3> sbeattie: based on the above, would you mind being my sounding board to validate that the constraints agreed upon are implemented properly?
[16:49] <cr3> s/constraints/requirements/
[16:50] <sbeattie> cr3: that all sounds sensible to me, and I'd be happy to be the sounding board.
[16:50] <cr3> sbeattie: cool, I'll get this done shortly so that we can get the package reviewed today
[16:51] <sbeattie> cr3: awesome!
[16:52] <cr3> sbeattie: this should also make your life easier when integrating additional tests from qrt: you will only have to work on checkbox rather than an internal client which depends on checkbox, ie fewer levels of indirection
[19:06] <cr3> sbeattie: I have a ppa building checkbox with qrt integration which should be ready soon: https://edge.launchpad.net/~cr3/+archive/ppa/+packages
[19:06] <cr3> sbeattie: in order to enable the qrt suite, either change /etc/checkbox.d/checkbox.ini (which can be preseeded) or start checkbox-gtk with the option --config='checkbox/plugins/suites_prompt/blacklist='
[19:06] <sbeattie> cr3: okay, thanks.
[20:32] <cr3> ogasawara: hi there, do you happen to know of a script that sets the acpi wakealarm stuff?
[20:33] <cr3> sbeattie: I'm sorry for the delay in building the qrt checkbox package, it seems like ppa building is really slow today
[20:34] <sbeattie> no worries.
[20:34] <cr3> what does "pm" mean in "pm-suspend" for example?
[20:35] <fagan_> power manager
[20:35] <fagan_> :)
[20:36] <cr3> fagan_: man, now I feel like quite the idiot :)
[20:38]  * fagan_ is a super hero his power knowing random facts to pull out of the hat when needed
[20:39] <fader_> cr3: /usr/share/checkbox/scripts/suspend_test references wakealarm
[20:40] <fader_> No checkbox test currently uses it but I believe the script supports it
[20:43] <cr3> fader_: ok, looking over some of the additiona-tests branches: some tests were broken and others could use a cleanup
[20:45] <cr3> if I can have the pm.py script in checkbox-oem use the existing suspend_test, I think that'd be a win
[20:45] <fader_> cr3: Yeah, the suspend_test script has a lot of sexy features and I believe it is pretty well tested
[20:47] <sbeattie> doesn't it also have issues due to buggy system acpi implementations?
[20:49]  * sbeattie has a vague recollection of complaints that post running the wakealarm tests, some laptops would spuriously wake up during non-testing suspend events)
[20:50] <cr3> sbeattie: it also seems that suspend_test is implicitly interactive
[20:50] <cr3> oh wait, there's an --auto flag!
[21:41] <ogasawara> cr3: I checked in a wakealarm test script in my checkbox-certification branch
[21:41] <ogasawara> cr3: just need that branch reviewed (sent you email)
[21:42] <cr3> ogasawara: cool, any particular reason why there's a new script instead of reusing suspend_test script?
[21:45] <ogasawara> cr3: I saw it as suspend_test should depend on the wakealarm script passing first
[21:45] <ogasawara> cr3: but you could just run suspend_test too
[21:46] <cr3> ogasawara: ah, so if the hardware doesn't support wakealarm, don't even bother to run the suspend_test, right?
[21:48] <ogasawara> cr3: right
[21:49] <cr3> ogasawara: would it make sense to fold that logic into the suspend_test itself?
[21:49] <cr3> instead of having to maintain two scripts?
[21:50] <cr3> I would imagine that the same logic could be reused by the suspend_test to barf if wakealarm is not supported by the hardware
[21:50] <ogasawara> cr3: yup, that would work too
[22:00] <moustafa> fader_, cr3, I'm off for the week-end
[22:00] <moustafa> take care!
[22:00] <fader_> moustafa: Ciao!
[22:07]  * fader_ is off for the weekend.
[22:08] <fader_> Take it easy everybody.


[12:17] <jamesh> WebMaven: there is a Canonical company conference this week
[12:18] <WebMaven> jamesh: Ah. I see.
[03:09] <jamesh> ddaa: make check-python TESTFILTER=testFeatureRlogPathRevision
[04:30] <Sp4rKy> hi there
[04:31] <Sp4rKy> raphink: ping
[04:31] <Sp4rKy> raphink: i would know if it's possible to add a new disto on LP
[04:31] <Sp4rKy> an ubuntu based distro
[04:31] <Sp4rKy> Ebuntu :)
[09:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #71960 in launchpad "Support unicode string in testbrowser" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71960
[10:37] <Sp4rKy> hi


[00:55] <micahg> nigelb: wow, you're on planet mozilla before me...not surprising, I'm not on planet ubuntu yet
[04:44] <nigelb> micahg: :)
[13:00] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: #thunderbird-unity?
[13:20] <MissDjax> hello !
[13:20] <MissDjax> :)
[13:21] <MissDjax> I am new to Thunderbird... I installed it from synaptic (ubuntu natty), version 3.1.13, according to the web, the latest stable version is 6.*, I am a bit confused about that
[13:21] <MissDjax> could someone explain ?
[13:28] <MissDjax> oh well, fuck off
[13:34] <chrisccoulson> oh, lovely, polite person :)
[13:34] <chrisccoulson> doesn't realize that we don't spend every waking minute staring at IRC channels ;)
[13:55] <bhearsum> hehe
[14:08] <knome> chrisccoulson, wait, what, you don't?!
[14:15] <chrisccoulson> knome, i don't ;)
[14:18] <chrisccoulson> micahg, now i've got an environment in the datacenter that can create our source packages, i might write a cron job which monitors the upstream repo's and automatically builds and publishes a new tarball on p.c.c/~chrisccoulson every time a new tag is added ;)
[14:35] <micahg> chrisccoulson: wow, that's an interesting proposition
[14:35] <chrisccoulson> it should be pretty easy to do
[14:35] <micahg> I still feel better about manually generating them though
[14:36] <chrisccoulson> and the package already contains everything we need to automatically get the correct translations
[14:36] <micahg> chrisccoulson: unless we'll be able to verify against an upstream hash
[14:36] <chrisccoulson> there already automatically created though. the cron job would just run the same command as i do manually to create the tarball
[14:38] <micahg> chrisccoulson: right, I guess I'm just paranoid about stuff :)
[15:07] <joelesko> micahg: I just looked at the firefox packaging and I didn't realize how much it changed.
[15:08] <joelesko> chrisccoulson: The new packaging system looks really nice and it has the information I needed to build seamonkey for lucid
[15:11] <joelesko> I will  convert seamonkey to the firefox packaging method. It looks very clean.
[15:13] <micahg> joelesko: great, if you can start from the packaging we have and prepare a merge I'd be happy to review next week
[15:13] <micahg> joelesko: please use one bzr commit for each groups of changes
[15:18] <chrisccoulson> hi joelesko
[15:18] <chrisccoulson> which firefox branch did you look at btw?
[15:23] <joelesko> I looked at ~mozillateam/firefox/firefox-trunk.head
[15:23] <joelesko> I hope that is the right one.
[15:24] <chrisccoulson> joelesko, yeah, that's the right one
[15:25] <chrisccoulson> does that mean seamonkey will get language packs? :)
[15:25] <joelesko> Very easy to read, I like the formatting.
[15:26] <joelesko> If it's in the firefox package, I'll see what I can do. Since seamonkey, firefox, thunderbird are all based on the same code, it should.
[15:27] <joelesko> I'm sure I'll need your help when I get there.
[15:27] <joelesko> micahg: Can you define 'group of changes'. This is going to be a big change from what is out there now for seamonkey
[15:28] <joelesko> I checked out the current seamonkey branch and was going to work from there.
[15:30] <joelesko> I was planning on modifing the firefox files and then after a local build works, check it in.
[15:30] <joelesko> Is that what you were thinking?
[15:39] <micahg> joelesko: basically something that would be one changelog entry
[15:40] <joelesko> That makes sense. Thanks
[15:41] <micahg> joelesko: thank you!  2.3.3 is out, so we can go with that
[15:42] <joelesko> Yeah. I packaged it for lucid, maverick, natty and oniric and that what I wanted to go with.
[15:42] <micahg> joelesko: once we get caught up, if we can get someone to do the testing/packaging prep, I'm happy to upload seamonkey with everything else and push it out on release day
[15:43] <joelesko> That would be awesome. You would want it for the releases as well, right?
[15:44] <joelesko> There was a problem with yasm in lucid becaused of the accelerated jpeg processor, but there is a flag in the config to disable it for lucid
[15:44] <joelesko> The rules file in firefox showed me how you do that.
[15:45] <micahg> joelesko: yes, lucid-oneiric would be great
[15:45] <micahg> joelesko: we might be able to push a yasm-1.1.0 package to lucid, but I'd have to look into that next week
[15:46] <chrisccoulson> yes, we need the latest yasm for firefox at some point
[15:46] <chrisccoulson> joelesko, you can use this patch in seamonkey - http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox-beta.lucid/view/head:/debian/patches/use-new-yasm-in-lucid.patch
[15:46] <chrisccoulson> and the versioned yasm package from the firefox-next PPA is what we'll push to lucid (which is co-installable with the current version in lucid)
[15:47] <micahg> chrisccoulson: there's no need to version the binary since it's a build time dependency
[15:48] <chrisccoulson> micahg, right, but upgrading the current version might make something else in lucid unbuildable in the future
[15:48] <chrisccoulson> should you need to rebuild something else which uses it
[15:48] <chrisccoulson> which is why i created a co-installable version
[15:48] <micahg> chrisccoulson: I'd just push a new source and change the binary package name, not the yasm binary
[15:48] <chrisccoulson> micahg, then they wouldn't be co-installable
[15:49] <chrisccoulson> they would conflict with each other
[15:49] <micahg> they don't have to be and that's fine
[15:49] <micahg> I need to finish with NSS right now, happy to debate this later
[15:53] <chrisccoulson> ok, i need to disappear for a bit and do some exercise before dinner
[15:54] <chrisccoulson> woohoo - fully automatic, without touching my connection at all - https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ppa/ :)
[15:54] <micahg> awesome!
[17:15] <bhearsum> chrisccoulson: wait, the normal course of action is to require someone to push a button to generate builds?
[17:17] <chrisccoulson> bhearsum, yeah, that person is currently me. i've been turning the handle manually on daily builds because i need to sign the uploads
[17:18] <bhearsum> ah
[17:18] <bhearsum> right, i forgot about the signing stuff
[17:18] <chrisccoulson> bhearsum, i still need to sign them, but i've created a separate account (https://launchpad.net/~chrisbot) with its own key, which can't upload to our primary archive
[17:19] <chrisccoulson> so i can have a passwordless key, which is hosted in our datacenter
[17:19] <bhearsum> ah
[17:20] <chrisccoulson> i wouldn't do that any of my other keys though :)
[17:22] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, i've got to wait a whole week for my new laptop :(
[17:23] <chrisccoulson> lets hope my current one doesn't die completely before then
[17:29] <debfx> m_conley: what do you think about my patch on bug #817598? it would make the messaging menu work on kde
[17:29] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 817598 in messagingmenu-extension "Doesn't work when libunity isn't installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/817598
[17:29]  * m_conley looks
[17:31] <m_conley> debfx: i think your patch might be slightly out of date - can you rebase it, and do a review request on lp:messagingmenu-extension?
[17:33] <debfx> ok, will do
[17:35] <chrisccoulson> what's wrong with installing libunity on KDE? it's not like it pulls in unity, and it's, like 350kB
[17:36] <knome> i suppose the "wrong" in that is kde
[17:36]  * knome hides
[17:36] <chrisccoulson> KDE already gives us enough pain, especially with that monstrous patch we have in firefox which breaks every couple of days ;)
[17:39] <knome> eww
[17:41] <debfx> chrisccoulson: more like 1MB due its dependencies
[18:01] <debfx> m_conley: https://code.launchpad.net/~debfx/messagingmenu-extension/lp817598/+merge/74489
[18:02] <m_conley> debfx: thanks
[19:05] <micahg> bhearsum: launchpad also supports automatic daily builds, but they require a vcs hosted on LP which doesn't import from hg yet
[19:05] <bhearsum> ah
[19:06] <micahg> I'm considering that for chromium which is hosted in svn
[19:06] <bhearsum> ok, so it's saner than it sounded earlier :)
[19:16] <chrisccoulson> micahg, that wouldn't work for thunderbird anyway, as the thunderbird source comes from multiple repo's, and i think the launchpad recipes can only come from one source branch
[19:17] <chrisccoulson> i don't think that chromium is hosted in a single repo is it?
[19:17] <micahg> chrisccoulson: I think so, not sure
[19:18] <chrisccoulson> micahg, yeah, the chromium source is hosted in multiple repo's, like thunderbird is
[19:18] <chrisccoulson> so launchpad recipe's are pretty much a non-starter for that
[19:19] <micahg> chrisccoulson: well, I'll figure that out later
[20:40] <FernandoMiguel> evening