[00:00] <daftykins> oh great kadiro is in now :P
[00:01] <Bashing-om> Hummm .. I did not know this was a Friday .
[00:01] <daftykins> :D
[03:04] <Ben64> really, he wanted to argue about root, i  just said "you shouldn't"
[03:04] <Ben64> i'm done with it though
[03:05] <daftykins> those stubborn users really are frustrating
[03:05] <daftykins> hey guys i just got 97% on the Introduction to Linux course on edx.org ! :D
[03:05] <Ben64> it was like step 1 in the diagnostic process and he couldn't understand what i was trying to say
[03:06] <Ben64> i don't get paid enough here to deal with that :D
[03:06] <Ben64> 97 sounds good
[03:07] <daftykins> i dropped one question about shell scripting because i've never done it - and didn't even cover the whole course material ;)
[04:16] <chaos7theory> Is there any indication of how exactly big all the packages under texlive-full takes up?
[04:51] <wafflejock> Ben64: I ended up PMing with The_Yeti, he calmed down, guess what he shouldn't have been running it as root :) I told him you're a very helpful guy and he shouldn't be so dismissive he was just already angry to start, but cooled down once we chatted for a minute and I explained why we don't just tell everyone to install PPAs and run as root if they want
[04:56] <Ben64> cool
[05:08] <daftykins> :)
[06:05] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[06:19] <lotuspsychje> bbl
[08:21] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[08:23] <daftykins> lotuspsychje: heya :) thanks for the backup!
[08:23] <daftykins> angry little fellow there
[08:23] <lotuspsychje> :p
[08:26] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: didnt that akik guy came for issues days ago
[08:26] <daftykins> hmm not sure
[08:26] <lotuspsychje> ive seen him before
[08:27] <daftykins> *adds to ignore*
[08:27] <lotuspsychje> lol
[08:48] <daftykins> lotuspsychje: we need to break in and add this chan to Eric's computer again ;)
[08:48] <lotuspsychje> lol
[08:49] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: i try hard to get em to add to favs, but some are very hard stubborn
[08:49] <lotuspsychje> ioria, monkeydust,eric
[09:02] <lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: morning mate
[09:03] <cfhowlett> greetings.  it's grey, wet, gloomy and 1700 hours here in BJ.  :)
[09:03] <daftykins> \o
[09:03] <daftykins> crikey
[09:03] <daftykins> much the same as over here at 9am!
[09:03] <lotuspsychje> rainy and 10h here
[09:04] <cfhowlett> cool story:  I saw ubuntu in the wild yesterday!  Chinese guy at starbucks was using it.
[09:05] <lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: on what device
[09:05] <lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: did you see the hackatton ubuntu insights?
[09:06] <cfhowlett> lotuspsychje, nope.  link?
[09:06] <daftykins> :D
[09:07] <lotuspsychje> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/11/04/another-wave-of-hacking-in-china-this-time-with-techcrunch/?utm_source=Facebook%2C%20Twitter%2C%20G%2B&utm_medium=Post&
[09:08] <cfhowlett> ah THAT one!
[09:08] <lotuspsychje> :p
[09:09] <cfhowlett> damn. I had to work today, or I might have gone.  VEry close to my present location!
[09:10] <daftykins> :(
[09:18] <daftykins> lotuspsychje: actually what is that system? branded or a custom build?
[09:18] <daftykins> could be a motherboard quirk too
[09:19] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: its my own build, but the wifi card has worked on trusty before
[09:19] <lotuspsychje> thats what so confusing
[09:19] <daftykins> are you on the vivid HWE stack on that system, so 3.19 kernel - or original 3.13?
[09:19] <lotuspsychje> maybe ill cmos reset aswell
[09:20] <lotuspsychje> kernel 4.2 on xenial now i believe
[09:20] <daftykins> oh yeah you updated, silly me
[09:20] <lotuspsychje> but tested the live trusty right after
[09:20] <lotuspsychje> and card didnt show either
[09:20] <daftykins> i've seen bad states get held onto until a PSU's connections have been removed from the motherboard
[09:20] <lotuspsychje> i tought it was a kernel thing too at first
[09:21] <lotuspsychje> ill surely try :p
[09:23] <lotuspsychje> brb im too curious :p
[09:24] <daftykins> :D
[09:24] <daftykins> good man
[09:33] <lotus|xenial> daftykins: you did it mate!!!
[09:33] <lotus|xenial> 00:0c.0 Network controller [0280]: IBM Device [1014:0601]
[09:34] <daftykins> \o/
[09:34] <lotus|xenial> doesnt show proper ralink chip, but at least it show in lcpci now :p
[09:34] <daftykins> did you go for the CMOS reset too, or just the power pull?
[09:34] <daftykins> yeah that's a weird name
[09:34] <lotus|xenial> power pull
[09:34] <lotus|xenial> daftykins: that might be early xenial stuff
[09:34] <daftykins> ja
[09:35] <lotus|xenial> daftykins: tnx mate :p
[09:35] <daftykins> my pleasure :)
[09:36] <daftykins> my hardware love is far above my ubuntu skillset
[09:36] <lotus|xenial> lol
[09:36] <daftykins> so tempted to upgrade to a skylake build by the way :)
[09:36] <daftykins> £500 i figured it would be
[09:36] <lotus|xenial> wow
[09:37] <lotus|xenial> lets hope once my store runs, xenial rocknrolls on i7
[09:38] <daftykins> i don't even think the skylake retail boxed chips come with a heatsink!
[09:41] <lotus|xenial> 50mb of xenial updates
[09:46] <daftykins> lotus|xenial: i'd have to get a new case to get some USB 3 ports built in if i upgrade ;) my choice is: http://www.antec.com/product.php?id=705439&pid=89
[09:47] <lotus|xenial> daftykins: error in link?
[09:47] <daftykins> oh drat
[09:48] <daftykins> how about - http://www.ebuyer.com/312927-antec-p280-case-0-761345-82000-4
[09:49] <lotus|xenial> daftykins: nice1
[09:51] <lotus|xenial> ok reboot for xenial updates
[09:53] <daftykins> aaaah, i love a good puzzle.
[09:54] <lotus|xenial> :p
[09:54] <lotuspsychje> :D
[09:54] <lotus|xenial> lol my gf fooling around again
[09:55] <daftykins> hi Ms.lotus! o/
[09:56] <lotus|xenial> 1 min away from the netbook :p
[09:56] <lotus|xenial> hehe
[09:56] <lotuspsychje> lol and hello there
[09:56] <lotus|xenial> lotuspsychje: be polite and say hi back!
[09:56] <lotuspsychje> too late
[09:56] <lotus|xenial> grrrr
[09:56] <daftykins> muahahaha
[09:58] <lotuspsychje> he is a one..
[09:58] <lotus|xenial> lol
[09:59] <daftykins> no way, us Guernsey folk use that phrase :O
[09:59] <daftykins> or more specifically, "cor you're a one you, eh?"
 Anneli Drecker)" by Röyksopp [Junior]
[11:34] <lotuspsychje> :p
[11:44] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: he starts to make mistakes :p
[11:44] <daftykins> indeed
[11:45] <daftykins> switch to legacy *facepalm*
[11:50] <lotuspsychje> philipballew: hi
[11:51] <daftykins> uuuugh this guy pikapi is such a troll
[11:51] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: leave him be to next mistake
[11:51] <lotuspsychje> he wont be able to resist im sure
[11:54] <daftykins> :)
[11:54] <lotuspsychje> lol chill
[11:55] <lotuspsychje> hi BluesKaj
[11:55] <BluesKaj> 'Morning all
[11:56] <BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje
[11:57] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: daftykins solved my ralink card mystery, had to unplug power from mobo
[11:57] <BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, why would that work?
[11:58] <daftykins> BluesKaj: resets any persistence in the NVRAM of the mobo
[11:58] <daftykins> some kinda quirk in there
[11:59] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: now xenial sees it in lspci -nn with IBM chipset lol
[11:59] <BluesKaj> weird
[12:00] <lotuspsychje> might be little early for wifi card recognition
[12:00] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: helloooooo
[12:00] <lotuspsychje> add to favs mate
[12:01] <lotuspsychje> we start to get crowded here
[12:01] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: <pikapi> he was accusing me personally for no reason
 i was pissed off ;|
 dont msg me, use #ubuntu-offtopic
 tell him to stop saying stupid things
[12:01] <EriC^^> daftykins: i need your expertise on tv and resolution
[12:01] <BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, well 16.04 is still mostly 15.10 so it should see the wifi chip
[12:02] <EriC^^> lotuspsychje: :D
[12:02] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: it sees now, but as a wrong chipset
[12:02] <EriC^^> daftykins: do you think a 32" tv with 1920x1080 resolution is better than a 1366x768 ?
[12:02] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: can we start making bugs in this staqe?
[12:03] <daftykins> EriC^^: oh definitely yeah, a proper 1080 panel is mandatory in 2015 i'd say
[12:03] <daftykins> might only be able to appreciate it sat close though :)
[12:03] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: wich brand are you gonna choose?
[12:03] <EriC^^> i read somewhere that on 32" if you're sitting a little far from it, it won't make a difference
[12:03] <lotuspsychje> MonkeyDustttttttttttt
[12:04] <BluesKaj> EriC^^, I'm using a plasma tv as a monitor and the former works much better than the latter
[12:04] <daftykins> EriC^^: depends a lot on what kind of content you'll have access to, to use on it i'd say
[12:04] <EriC^^> daftykins: what about like the watching normal cable stuff on it? cause it said that it gets scaled down to 1200 or something so does it make a difference if the tv is 1366 or 1920?
[12:04] <daftykins> mmm you'd have to find out what your local TV service broadcasts in
[12:05] <BluesKaj> also the gpu must be able to handle the resolution, EriC^^
[12:05] <daftykins> it would most likely not show up so much
[12:05] <EriC^^> BluesKaj: it's for a tv no pc
[12:05] <daftykins> what was that path that confirms an EFI boot? was it /sys/firmware ?
[12:05] <EriC^^> /sys/firmware/efi
[12:05] <daftykins> ty :)
[12:06] <BluesKaj> well the tv will automatically run the resolution the signal provides
[12:06] <BluesKaj> EriC^^,^
[12:06] <EriC^^> so buying a 32" 1920 isn't ridiculous then?
[12:06] <BluesKaj> nope
[12:07] <EriC^^> yeah, that's what i read online, but i dunno about tv's and 1920 just seems better to me
[12:07] <BluesKaj> it is
[12:07] <daftykins> it's a lovely resolution :)
[12:07] <EriC^^> ok :D
[12:08] <EriC^^> thanks everyone
[12:08] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: whatever you do, buy a samsung :p
[12:08] <EriC^^> noo, lg man here :P
[12:08] <lotuspsychje> noooooo
[12:08] <MonkeyDust> hi
[12:08] <EriC^^> i have an lg plasma, i love it
[12:08] <lotuspsychje> please dont
[12:08] <lotuspsychje> i know a guy that bought a 60" LG
[12:08] <lotuspsychje> and he returned it fast to the store
[12:08] <lotuspsychje> to switch for samsung
[12:09] <EriC^^> you get a bad lemon here and there, happens all the time i guess
[12:09] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: when you play a 1080p mkv and compare youl see big difference
[12:09] <EriC^^> daftykins: do you know about lg and samsung?
[12:10] <daftykins> EriC^^: ihave a samsung smart TV myself, ordereda couple for someone else recently too
[12:10] <daftykins> LG's i know run WebOS for their 'smart' features but i've not really researched their TVs
[12:10] <EriC^^> hmm
[12:10] <daftykins> this space key is terrible XD
[12:11] <EriC^^> lg cost more though
[12:11] <EriC^^> they seem more elegant (?) or advanced? i dunno
[12:11] <BluesKaj> larhe screens aren't always best , depends on the size of the room ,and the rule is the viewing distancew should be 2.5 to 4 times the size of the screen
[12:11] <BluesKaj> large
[12:11] <lotuspsychje> nothing can beat samsungs quality trust me EriC^^
[12:12] <BluesKaj> 2,5 to 3 times rather
[12:14] <lotuspsychje> the guy from my work played his full bluray on the LG and it lagged hard on him
[12:15] <lotuspsychje> got myself a samsung UE8000 + mede8er mediaplayer with full blueray mkv's and rocknrolls
[12:15] <daftykins> just don't buy too old a model or rely on the smart functions, as the manufacturers will definitely abandon them sooner than you hope :(
[12:15] <BluesKaj> most likely the player was causing the lag
[12:16] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: no, it was same mede8er i bought for my friend
[12:16] <daftykins> i'm using Kodi on an Amazon FireTV right now :)
[12:16] <daftykins> £50 box, plays all my full HD bluray stuff over lovely wired LAN
[12:18] <BluesKaj> I just use vlc , don't own a blueray .. i use a vpn and DL them
[12:19] <MonkeyDust> my desk is a mess, any quick and easy way to solve my issue?
[12:19] <lotuspsychje> MonkeyDust: whats going on mate?
[12:21] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: good afternoon
[12:21] <OerHeks> Hi lotus
[12:21] <OerHeks> just rebooted due to a new kernel
[12:21] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: wich ubuntu
[12:22] <OerHeks> 15.04
[12:22] <daftykins> sudo apt-get install desk-clean && desk-clean --auto
[12:22] <daftykins> :)
[12:23] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: did something not worj on previous?
[12:23] <BluesKaj> some of the most organized people have messy desks,  I was one of them :-)
[12:27] <daftykins> does any boot wizard fancy taking over kasper's issue? i'm not experienced enough for that one - weirdly his windows 7 + ubuntu appear to be installed as legacy, but his disk is GPT and he's getting bootloader errors from windows when selecting ubuntu at boot time
[12:32] <OerHeks> how did he made space for ubuntu?
[12:33] <daftykins> mmm no idea
[12:33] <daftykins> probably let ubiquity handle it
[12:33] <daftykins> i think he's ruined it by using EasyBCD at some point
[12:33] <daftykins> the disk looks like it's in some kind of EFI + legacy hybrid situation :D
[12:33] <OerHeks> oh pikapi will solve it
[12:34] <lotuspsychje> grrr what a frustrating troll
[12:34] <daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/13111933/ <---
[12:34] <daftykins> OerHeks: lol
[12:38] <daftykins> why *do* we attract these weirdos? i really don't get it.
[12:38] <lotuspsychje> he's gonna make more mistakes soon i feel it :p
[12:38] <OerHeks> I think we are the weirdos.
[12:38] <lotuspsychje> looool
[12:39] <daftykins> edx.org is still giving free chromebooks out if you sign up for a course
[12:40] <daftykins> :O
[12:40] <lotuspsychje> brrrr chromebook :p
[12:40] <lotuspsychje> i wouldnt even touch it if it sat in my kelloggs box for free
[12:41] <daftykins> XD
[12:42] <daftykins> i'm not a huge fan of them either but it's kinda tempting ;)
[12:42] <lotuspsychje> things fro free always :p
[12:44] <daftykins> https://training.linuxfoundation.org/get-a-free-chromebook
[12:45] <daftykins> oh they'reactually crazy money, i didn't realise it said "not" free courses :)
[12:45] <lotuspsychje> 2.100$ for a course yayyyy
[12:46] <daftykins> yeah XD
[12:49] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: wb
[12:50] <daftykins> TJ-: o/ wb!
[12:50] <lotuspsychje> 37 users we have a winner!
[12:51] <daftykins> hahaha
[12:51]  * TJ- walks in looking like Sherlock Holmes :)
[12:51] <daftykins> don't say he gets my allocation of cookies for the day...
[12:53]  * lotuspsychje isnt guilty so stop looking
[12:53] <TJ-> Had some plonkers fly-tipped two builders bags of rubbish at the entrance to 1 of our tracks this morning, I saw them doing it whilst I was out around the fields, but too far away! Found some names/addresses/photos in it and been trying to identify who dun it :)
[12:54] <daftykins> cor, pesky scoundrels
[12:54] <daftykins> TJ-: well it's been all go here too ;) pikapi is one of those bad-advice trolls
[12:55] <TJ-> It's a major problem around here. Folks drive out of the city and dump their rubbish - despite there being free council-operated sites all over
[12:55] <TJ-> pikapi, the 3-a-day Ubuntu kid?
[12:55] <lotuspsychje> lol
[12:56] <TJ-> what? did he broke it already this morning?
[12:56] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: daftykins seen him quote you for solving an issue
[12:56] <TJ-> uhoh! was it bad?
[12:56] <lotuspsychje> and it wasnt even relevant
[12:56] <daftykins> yeah some guy had some package issue and he typed in one of your style commands that was totally unrelated ;)
[12:56] <TJ-> LOL
[12:56] <daftykins> shocking it was
[12:57] <TJ-> Oh, gee, it's great to be f.f.f.famous :D
[12:57] <lotuspsychje> lol
[12:57] <daftykins> all the kids want to be TJ!
[12:57] <lotuspsychje> i wouldnt want pichachu fans
[12:57] <lotuspsychje> loool
[12:57] <TJ-> pikapi is probably our mystery fly tipper, too!
[12:57] <daftykins> i wouldn't put his past him :>
[12:57] <TJ-> The ways the new kids find to stalk you online!
[12:58] <TJ-> I hope you put him right daftykins ... without being banned :D
[12:58] <daftykins> LOL that's my personal challenge
[12:58] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: he's been trolling both of us all day
[12:58] <TJ-> Hmmmm!
[12:58] <TJ-> Have you ever had a 'net stalker?
[12:59] <lotuspsychje> not me
[12:59] <daftykins> TJ-: actually i've got a guy with a really funky hybrid EFI with GPT disk arrangement right now and yet both windows + ubuntu booting in legacy mode that you might enjoy
[12:59] <lotuspsychje> my ip is anonymous! <IP_ADDRESS>!!
[12:59] <TJ-> 'enjoy' isn't quite the word I'd use to describe it :)
[12:59] <lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: wb
[12:59] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: Oh you should get one - they're so much fun to toy with
[13:00] <daftykins> TJ-: d'aww
[13:00] <cfhowlett> :)
[13:00] <daftykins> TJ-: he gets this on picking ubuntu - http://i.imgur.com/DCXZ4FM.jpg yet his disk looks like - http://paste.ubuntu.com/13111933/
[13:00] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: by the way, daftykins solved my mystery ralink wifi card issue, had to disconnect power from mobo
[13:01] <daftykins> TJ-: i've suggested he either ask a boot expert ;) or just reinstall both OSs after wiping the drive :>
[13:01] <daftykins> so far he wants to wipe the drive
[13:02] <TJ-> My partner Eddie and I had one about 3 years ago; was the real thing too - mystery letters, cards, packages through the mail; emails, weird sites being subscribed with Eddie's email address, people turning up at the door expecting a sex hook-up!! Had the cops involved... but we managed to entrap the perp online with a honeypot web-site and from that ID where he was and the cops got him.
[13:02] <daftykins> holy moly, that's nasty
[13:03] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: you mean you never COLD booted it? Aha! That's the one thing I assumed you'd done and never thought to suggest
[13:03] <daftykins> not bright enoughfor a proxy eh?
[13:03] <TJ-> daftykins: thank-fully, not, else it would have been difficult. It lasted about 3 months.
[13:03] <daftykins> :S
[13:04] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: now it has become stranger and lspci shows it as IBM chipset lol
[13:05] <daftykins> :D identity-crisis wifi
[13:05] <lotuspsychje> haha
[13:05] <lotuspsychje> the xerus illness
[13:05] <TJ-> daftykins: re your UEFI user: autoneombr0 is the Easy BCD alternate boot-loader; that ought not to be on there,
[13:06] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: really? are you sure? show me :)
[13:06] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: the entire dmesg and "lspci -nn" please
[13:06] <daftykins> TJ-: yeah he installed it as ubuntu didn't show up as an option apparently, i suggested that broke things
[13:06] <lotuspsychje> wait lemme go upstairs holdon
[13:06]  * daftykins waits for ms.lotus to jump back on lotuspsychje and type :D
[13:08] <TJ-> daftykins: the problem us... the autoneombr0 is for BIOS boots, not UEFI, so the firmware starts in UEFI mode and loads the Windows EFI boot-manager, which then apparently tries to chainload MBR-style that file, which the UEFI calls don't support... well, that's my best reading of out. Anyhow, the problem is that neo'dumb' stuff
[13:09] <daftykins> weird, 'cause that guys windows install claims to be legacy
[13:09] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: #5: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13112219/
[13:09] <daftykins> i smelled a win8 -> 7 conversion leaving a GPT disk
[13:09] <daftykins> anywho, it's ugly but he seems keen to do the full disk wipe and reinstall :)
[13:10] <TJ-> daftykins: OK, but there's apparently an EFI SP on that disk. Did you check if it does have EFI boot files in it?
[13:10] <TJ-> daftykins: /dev/sda2 fat32 boot 105MB
[13:11] <daftykins> nah, i was hoping to pass it onto the resident boot expert after yourself, but he was not active at the time :(
[13:11] <lotus|xenial> ah now it shows in lshw: *-network:0 UNCLAIMED
[13:11] <lotus|xenial>        description: Network controller
[13:11] <lotus|xenial>        product: RT2800 802.11n PCI
[13:12] <TJ-> lotus|xenial: show us "pastebinit <( sudo lspci -vvnnk -s 00:0c.0 )" please
[13:13] <TJ-> daftykins: did the user boot from Live USB? If so, did you confirm it booted UEFI mode?  The device is apparently one supplied to IBM and branded by them
[13:14] <lotus|xenial> yep
[13:15] <lotus|xenial> so it makes sense afterall
[13:16] <MonkeyDust> i'm installing xenial too, in vmware player
[13:16] <daftykins> :D
[13:16] <lotus|xenial> MonkeyDust: nice1
[13:17] <daftykins> lotuspsychje: mind blown that you give a guy a google link and he says it'll save him hours, he hadn't googled already *facepalm*
[13:18] <TJ-> lotus|xenial: do this; it'll show you some other devices along the same lines:
[13:18] <TJ-> lotus|xenial: "awk '/^[0-9A-F]{4,4}/{BRAND=$0} /1737.*006./{print BRAND, $0}' /usr/share/misc/pci.ids "
[13:18] <TJ-> lotus|xenial: did that WiFi device *ever* work on Ubuntu?
[13:19] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: yes, we fixxed it on trusty the other day
[13:19] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: but cant remember how, something with linux-firmware
[13:19] <TJ-> lotus|xenial: hmmm.
[13:19] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13112272/
[13:19] <TJ-> lotus|xenial: did you pastebin the dmesg ?
[13:20] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: on trusty?
[13:20] <TJ-> lotus|xenial: that is weird! awk didn't work correctly for you!
[13:20] <TJ-> lotus|xenial: on what is booted now
[13:20] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: xenial, holdon
[13:21] <TJ-> lotus|xenial: this is what I expected you to see http://paste.ubuntu.com/13112277/
[13:21] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13112279/
[13:22] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: maybe its because its unclaimed right now?
[13:22] <TJ-> No. The file awk is parsing is the text pci.ids list
[13:23] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: its empty on my side
[13:24] <lotus|xenial> daftykins: lol, hope it helps him
[13:24] <daftykins> :)
[13:24] <TJ-> lotus|xenial: the file is empty? it can't be, you got some results out of it!
[13:24] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: no i man empty where it should mention emtec..
[13:24] <lotus|xenial> like your file
[13:25] <OerHeks> 102 is out ! multiboot with uefi http://dl.fullcirclemagazine.org/issue102_en.pdf
[13:26] <TJ-> lotus|xenial: the awk command is (trying to) capture an earlier line and hold on to it in BRAND variable so that when it gets a match on the device ID it can print BRAND and current matching line, so that BRAND capture logic is probably failing because you file is using lower-case hex characters
[13:26] <TJ-> lotus|xenial: Try  "awk '/^[0-9A-Fa-f]{4,4}/{BRAND=$0} /1737.*006./{print BRAND, $0}' /usr/share/misc/pci.ids "
[13:27] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: still empty
[13:28] <TJ-> lotus|xenial: that IS weird! maybe the file format there is different then. Can you "pastebinit <( tail -n 1000 /usr/share/misc/pci.ids )"
[13:29] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13112314/
[13:33] <daftykins> TJ-: looks to me like windows' boot image only; http://termbin.com/0x2p
[13:36] <TJ-> lotus|xenial: weird; the file-format is OK. Must be something about how your system interpets the 'awk' script
[13:36] <daftykins> so i think someone didn't clean up the EFI mess before putting legacy Windows + ubuntu on :O
[13:37] <TJ-> daftykins: looks possible. might be good to get a bootrepair report on that system, unless the user is going to do a reinstall (correctly)
[13:37] <daftykins> *nod*
[13:38] <MonkeyDust> there, xenial installed and working...
[13:38] <lotus|xenial> MonkeyDust: nice1
[13:38] <TJ-> daftykins: tip, for when getting a listing from an FS/directory you expect not to have many files in its heirachy: "find /mnt -ls"
[13:40] <daftykins> *nod* that makes sense :)
[13:40] <daftykins> was certainly tedious my folder by folder attack
[13:40] <TJ-> I used to get caught by that until I learned to love 'find' :)
[13:40] <TJ-> adding in a -maxdepth X to control it is the other thing I use alot
[13:42] <daftykins> is there an elegant way to use find on / whilst suppressing all the output of paths a standard user isn't permitted to view?
[13:42] <daftykins> and avoid using sudo with it
[13:43] <TJ-> there is the 'don't X file systems' option
[13:44] <TJ-> "-xdev"
[13:45] <TJ-> you could jsut do "find / 2>/dev/null" to 'loose' the warnings about permission denied I think
[13:46] <daftykins> hrmm ok, ty
[13:53] <MonkeyDust> excellent...
[13:54] <daftykins> lol this is going to make pikapi flip out, i think his solution would have worked after all :)
[13:55] <MonkeyDust> don't make him start a discussion...
[13:55] <daftykins> nah i'm hiding now :D
[13:55] <daftykins> it's still a mess, so i don't personally like the 'solution' of changing EFI boot to legacy
[13:57] <TJ-> other way around.... Legacy to UEFI
[13:57] <daftykins> ooh-err
[14:05] <MonkeyDust> to geek or not to geek, that is the question
[14:06] <lotus|xenial> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1513477
[14:06] <lotus|xenial> there we go first xenial bug
[14:06] <daftykins> :)
[14:07] <MonkeyDust> lotus|xenial  support in #ubuntu+1
[14:07] <daftykins> lol
[14:07] <lotus|xenial> hehe
[14:07] <lotus|xenial> i was 'discussing it'
[14:08] <lotus|xenial> with myself
[14:10] <daftykins> quick get your gf back on lotuspsychje :P
[14:10] <lotus|xenial> she's sleeping shhhh
[14:10] <BluesKaj> heh, I have a ralink rt2780 usb dongle ...wonder if it works , haven't tried it in yrs
[14:11] <lotus|xenial> BluesKaj: test for me later?
[14:11] <lotus|xenial> im curious :p
[14:11] <BluesKaj> or is it 2870
[14:11] <lotus|xenial> probably all the same mess
[14:12] <lotus|xenial> im gonna bug whatever feels wrong this time
[14:12] <lotus|xenial> so we have a clean nice xerus
[14:12] <BluesKaj> ok, I'll set it up just for fun
[14:12] <daftykins> :D
[14:12] <daftykins> that's the spirit
[14:13] <lotus|xenial> : )
[14:13]  * daftykins keeps dreaming about new motherboards
[14:14] <daftykins> mmmm - http://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/Z170-PRO/websites/global/products/rNcl9BhUV4NzvQIk/images/mb/mb.png
[14:14] <lotus|xenial> lol
[14:14] <lotus|xenial> wow
[14:14] <lotus|xenial> monsta
[14:15] <lotus|xenial> http://game.msi.com/product/motherboard/z87-gaming
[14:15] <daftykins> has one of those M.2 PCIe v3 x4 SSD slots for a nice NVMe SSD :)
[14:16] <lotus|xenial> cool
[14:16] <TJ-> lotus|xenial: is this the wifi device? http://www.walmart.com/ip/Linksys-WMP600N-IEEE-802.11a-b-g-IEEE-802.11n-Draft-2.0-PCI-Wireless-Adapter-with-Dual-Band-WEP-WPA-WPA2-Personal-WPA-WPA2-Enterprise/12321719
[14:16] <lotus|xenial> ready for 950
[14:16] <daftykins> exactly :D
[14:16] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: yes
[14:16] <lotus|xenial> but i need to go to the bank right now
[14:16] <TJ-> I have one here on my desk
[14:17] <lotus|xenial> TJ-: running ubuntu?
[14:17] <TJ-> WMP600N
[14:17] <lotus|xenial> anyway bbl guys
[14:17] <daftykins> o/
[14:17] <TJ-> It used to be in an Ubuntu wireles router system that had 10 Ethernet interfaces and did dual-band AP using hostapd too
[14:18] <daftykins> ten O_O
[14:22] <TJ-> yeah, it does the job of several different devices: switch, router, gateway (had a DSL PCI modem in), AP, NAS
[14:23] <TJ-> hmmm, time I cleared some outstanding projects. The pile on the workbench has now reached my corner so I have nowhere to work to test things out!
[14:24] <BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, sorry, found the dongle , but the stick is missing
[14:24] <daftykins> TJ-: :D well thanks for the second set of eyes as always, sorry to distract you so much ^_^
[14:25] <TJ-> Trouble is, knowing where to start :s It's going to be revolving chairs :)
[14:34] <TJ-> looks like kasper got lost
[14:34] <daftykins> :D
[14:35] <daftykins> that's the trouble with ghosts
[14:37] <TJ-> :D just found 2 untouched Windows Office XP Pro 2002 sets at the back of a shelf!
[14:39] <daftykins> to ebay! you'll be laughing all the way to the bank
[14:41] <TJ-> no-one would want that old stuff nowadays
[14:43] <daftykins> you'd be amazed :) i have to grin and bear it when a younger lad i know is obsessing over older windows installs
[14:43] <TJ-> really? it's worth the time of listing them?
[14:44] <daftykins> lets have a glance
[14:44] <TJ-> I've got the entire suite of Windows software and packs of licences from the Microsoft Action Pack subscription
[14:46] <daftykins> http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Office-Business-/3768/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=office%20xp%20pro&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684
[14:46] <daftykins> hehe there y'go, some going for £20 worth in the US!
[14:46] <daftykins> those being sold listings if my link works
[14:51] <TJ-> don't look like any UK sellers... which suggests there's not the same market for them here or in the EU
[14:51] <daftykins> d'aww, ah well
[14:52] <daftykins> i get quite heated when i see folk still claiming installing and using XP is ok =|
[14:52] <TJ-> oh, there's one, with 0 bids. Thanks. I'll watch it, see if there are any takers
[14:52] <daftykins> hurrah :D
[14:53] <TJ-> XP is fine for air-gapped PCs; running machinery control software often requires XP; anything later has problems
[14:54] <TJ-> That's one reason I keep the licences and install disks; never know when I may need to run up some legacy installation for recovery or analysis. I have NT 4.0 install disks still
[14:59] <daftykins> :) these are folk installing them on laptops they use online though
[14:59] <daftykins> they keep pushing the registry tweak that makes a system pretend it's XP point of sale / embedded edition, so supported longer
[14:59] <cfhowlett> I beg to differ.  I see WAY too many Chinese machines still running XP
[14:59] <cfhowlett> including POS devices
[15:00] <daftykins> mmm supposed to be a big problem over there
[15:00] <daftykins> and that's POS for both meanings of the initialism ;)
[15:01] <cfhowlett> indeed!
[15:01] <cfhowlett> strangely enough, I have yet to see ubuntu-kylin in use.
[15:03] <TJ-> Nothing wrong with XP; It's how it is used. In all the time I used it, never once was compromised, and never installed A/V either.
[15:06] <daftykins> yeah, same here
[15:06] <daftykins> it was great for the time, i was just glad when it got murdered :)
[15:06] <daftykins> those lengthy installs were etched in my mind :)
[15:38] <TJ-> I'm going to need to convert the Calf Shed into a workshop! Far too many components and bits!
[15:39] <daftykins> but that's a lot of moo-ving
[15:39] <daftykins> :D
[15:39] <TJ-> LOL
[15:40] <TJ-> don't tell me - you'll be here all week?
[15:40] <daftykins> i'd love to but i think i will head to bed shortly :>
[15:42] <TJ-> Is it sleepy time already?
[15:42] <daftykins> yeah, i didn't sleep last night
[15:42] <daftykins> up to my usual tricks ;)
[15:45] <TJ-> Awwww, I know how it feels. I had the same the night before, but slept for about 11 hours last night
[15:45] <TJ-> I can see the workbench now - time for the Dyson!
[15:58] <MonkeyDust> xfce is very 'likable', wasnt aware...
[15:58] <daftykins> yeah ifind it quite comfy :)
[15:59] <daftykins> blast this membrane keyboard's overused space bar :D
[16:00] <TJ-> :)
[16:00] <MonkeyDust> using it for my xenial vm
[16:00] <TJ-> Yes, I like lxfe/lubuntu too. Nice and simple
[16:04] <daftykins> ok i'm gonna head off, laters everyone \o
[16:04] <TJ-> g'night
[19:07] <pauljw> hey lotuspsychje  :)
[19:07] <lotuspsychje> good evening to all
[19:07] <lotuspsychje> hi pauljw
[19:18] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-16-04-lts-with-unity-7-to-support-snappy-packages-495769.shtml
[19:18] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-16-04-lts-to-drop-ubuntu-software-center-for-gnome-software-495760.shtml
[19:19] <lotuspsychje> xenial news
[19:19] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-16-04-drops-brasero-and-empathy-gnome-calendar-to-be-adopted-495782.shtml
[19:20] <pauljw> saw that as well the redhat issue...
[19:22] <lotuspsychje> finally a software center alternative
[19:23] <pauljw> i tend to use synaptic myself
[19:24] <lotuspsychje> terminal here
[19:24] <pauljw> :) been known to do that too, just not always.
[19:26] <pauljw> i still struggle with all the gazzillions of commands in the terminal that i can't remember...  :D
[19:27] <lotuspsychje> pauljw: yeah there's so many to remember :p
[19:31] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: I'm trying to get an old mobo to boot with that WMP600N so I can let you know what linux reports
[19:32] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: cool! tnx mate
[19:32] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: i got a reply from a dev already
[19:32] <TJ-> currently the mobo is refusing to boot from any USB!
[19:32] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: he suggest mainline kernel 4.3
[19:32] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: try 'plop boot manager' to force the usb's, its a nice cdrom to have :p
[19:34] <TJ-> I have, it's not helped so far. Weirdly, I have booted this mobo with this USB diagnostic kit before
[19:34] <TJ-> anyhow, going to dinner now. I'll tackle it later.
[19:34] <lotuspsychje> kk
[19:37] <lotuspsychje> bon apetit
[19:43] <pauljw> biab
[20:26] <lotuspsychje> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Various-16.04-LTS-Updates
[20:27] <lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/11/the-ubuntu-software-centre-is-being-replace-in-16-04-lts
[20:27] <lotuspsychje> its all over the news :p
[20:56] <lotuspsychje> nite nite


[06:12] <mborzecki> morning
[06:21] <mup> PR snapd#7703 closed: cmd/snap: make 'snap list' shorten latest/$RISK to $RISK <Channels 🏷> <Simple 😃> <Created by chipaca> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7703>
[06:24] <mvo> hey mborzecki
[06:26] <mborzecki> mvo: hey
[06:36] <mup> PR snapd#7454 closed: interfaces: extend the fwupd slot to be implicit on classic <Created by jhenstridge> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7454>
[07:06] <zyga> good morning
[07:06] <mborzecki> zyga: hey
[07:06] <zyga> 5 days left
[07:06] <zyga> let's make it count!
[07:18] <mup> PR snapd#7717 closed: tests/docker-smoke: add minimal docker smoke test <Simple 😃> <Created by anonymouse64> <Merged by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7717>
[07:19] <mborzecki> mvo: some conflicts in #7714
[07:19] <mup> PR #7714: overlord: refactor mgrsSuite and extract kernelSuite <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7714>
[07:19] <mborzecki> mvo: i can look into that, unless you've already fixed it
[07:23] <mvo> mborzecki: missed the ping, either way is fine
[07:23] <mvo> hey zyga
[07:24] <mborzecki> mvo: ok, i'll push it
[07:28] <mvo> ta!
[07:30] <mborzecki> mvo: #7715 is based on 7714 isn't it?
[07:30] <mup> PR #7715: overlord: add base->base remodel undo tests and fixes <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7715>
[07:31] <mvo> mborzecki: correct
[07:32] <mborzecki> mvo: ok, i'll update that one too then
[07:32] <mvo> ok
[07:32] <mvo> mborzecki: it also needs a review and some more things (that samuele pointed out) but lets do the mechanical bits first
[07:33] <mvo> mborzecki: hm, looks like 7665 is in some strange state, says its waiting for CI for me, mabe we ned to push master to it
[07:34] <mborzecki> mvo: yeah, i'll be addressing your comments and will push there
[07:34] <mvo> ta
[07:48] <zyga> brb
[07:56] <mvo> mborzecki: are you working on the remodel-kernel-undo-tests PR? it has no conflicts so I could just address the feedback and push and ask you to review :) ?
[07:58] <mborzecki> mvo: no, i just pushed a little patch to 7714 and gave it +1
[07:58] <mvo> mborzecki: cool, I will just address samuele points in 7682 then and push and then you can review that too,
[07:58] <mborzecki> mvo: i think we can land 7714 and then update 7715, otherwise i'll get messy i think
[07:58] <mvo> mborzecki: its a subset so review should be trivial
[07:59] <mvo> mborzecki: aha, even better
[07:59] <mvo> mborzecki: one small issue is that 7714 includes 7682
[08:00] <mvo> mborzecki: so I need to make this one ok first ./
[08:00] <mvo> mborzecki: sorry, I should have done the refactor indepedantly
[08:00] <mborzecki> haha
[08:06] <zyga> re
[08:11] <pstolowski> morning
[08:12] <zyga> hey pawel
[08:21] <mborzecki> pstolowski: hey
[08:38] <pstolowski> o/
[08:47] <zyga> mborzecki: trying to fix the name=snapd branch now
[08:48] <zyga> mborzecki: made it conditional on v1/v2 mode, to use different directories
[08:48] <zyga> hoping /sys/fs/cgroup/snapd survives into lxd
[08:48] <zyga> and permissions there are sufficient
[08:48] <mborzecki> zyga: you likely need to merge master, paralle instances landed on friday
[08:48] <zyga> mborzecki: I know, I plan to soon
[08:49] <mborzecki> mvo: left a comment about retry-tool in place of the while loop, feels a bit awkward bc of grep
[08:49] <mborzecki> mvo: so i'll skip this one, and the mockSuccessfulReboot(), actually that second one is mroe interesting, it assumes snap_mode = try, but we don't switch the gadget snap during reboot, only base/kernel
[08:55] <zyga> brb
[08:57] <mvo> mborzecki: aha, right - good point
[08:57] <mvo> mborzecki: sorry, I missed that
[08:58] <mborzecki> mvo: no worries, i think we could make mockSuccessfulReboot work with some tweaking to catch unintended test cases
[08:58] <mvo> mborzecki: *nod*
[09:02] <zyga> chrome said to restart
[09:02] <zyga> mvo: ^
[09:55] <Chipaca> mborzecki: mo'in. Does your +1 to #7669 apply to #7670? :)
[09:55] <mup> PR #7669: snap, cmd/snap: support (but warn) deprecated multi-slash channel <Channels 🏷> <Needs Samuele review> <Created by chipaca> <Closed by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7669>
[09:55] <mup> PR #7670: cmd/snap: support (but warn) using deprecated multi-slash channel <Channels 🏷> <Needs Samuele review> <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7670>
[09:56] <mborzecki> Chipaca: let me take a look
[09:58] <mborzecki> Chipaca: idk, the suffering strings are gone ;)
[09:58] <Chipaca> mborzecki: ikr
[09:58] <Chipaca> mborzecki: OTOH valid value + error is a weird flex
[10:01] <Chipaca> mborzecki: how did you make a comment on an error message that is no longer there?
[10:02] <mborzecki> haha
[10:02] <mborzecki> yeah
[10:04] <mborzecki> Chipaca: btw. do we use the british or us spelling in the messages?
[10:11] <Chipaca> mborzecki: us :-/
[10:14] <zyga> another test pass,
[10:19] <zyga> test passed
[10:19] <zyga> that's very promising
[10:19] <zyga> running more challenging test
[10:40] <Chipaca> mvo: #7714 has two +1s but it includes #7682 which has some nits pointed out by pedronis
[10:40] <Chipaca> mvo: up to you whether to merge it and then followup or what
[10:40] <mup> PR #7714: overlord: refactor mgrsSuite and extract kernelSuite <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7714>
[10:40] <mup> PR #7682: overlord: add kernel remodel undo tests and fix undo <Priority :racehorse:> <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7682>
[10:40] <Chipaca> grr
[10:41] <Chipaca> #7682
[10:41] <mup> PR #7682: overlord: add kernel remodel undo tests and fix undo <Priority 🏇> <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7682>
[10:41] <Chipaca> better :)
[10:53] <mvo> Chipaca: I'm just finishing the unit test asked for in 7682, should be ready in some minutes
[10:54] <zyga> making progress, next up is the lxd test
[11:11] <mvo> Chipaca, mborzecki  7682 should be ready now, I addressed the comments from samuele
[11:14] <zyga> updated cgroup dir based on v1 / v2 mode in snapd side, resuming tests
[11:15] <mvo> Chipaca, mborzecki actually, yeah, probably/possible easier if I merge 7714 and do my other bits as a followup, up to you if you feel this is easier to review
[11:16] <zyga> mborzecki: the changes are not too terrible, not great
[11:16] <Chipaca> mvo: sgtm
[11:16] <zyga> mborzecki: we should do runc-like change later on
[11:16] <mborzecki> mvo: landing 7714 sgtm
[11:16] <mup> PR snapd#7714 closed: overlord: refactor mgrsSuite and extract kernelSuite <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7714>
[11:19] <mvo> mborzecki: 7665 now has conflicts, let me know if I should help. and a strange spread failure
[11:20] <mvo> Chipaca, mborzecki 7682 should be much simpler to review now :)
[11:20] <Chipaca> \o/
[11:20] <zyga> tests passed
[11:20] <zyga> good
[11:20] <zyga> moving on
[11:20] <mborzecki> mvo: that failure in 7665 looks like something raised in the forums during the weekend
[11:20] <zyga> running the lxd test now
[11:21] <mborzecki> mvo:  https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/snap-remove-fails-because-of-user-data/13990
[11:21] <Chipaca> mborzecki: saw that one, still puzzled by it
[11:22]  * Chipaca replies with as much
[11:28] <mvo> mborzecki: ok, feel free to restart the test if its unrelated
[11:30] <pstolowski> zyga: i've responded to #7675
[11:30] <mup> PR #7675: release: preseed mode flag <Prebaking 🍞> <Simple 😃> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7675>
[11:30] <zyga> pstolowski: thank you, looking now
[11:32] <zyga> pstolowski: replied
[11:32] <zyga> mvo: lxd test has passed with the new feature enabled *outside*
[11:33] <pstolowski> zyga: thanks
[11:33] <zyga> mvo: this is promising, looking at making the inside case now
[11:34] <zyga> mvo: the other case is just test adjustment which will later on become a change to lxd
[11:35] <zyga> mvo: this is really promising, I think it will work
[11:35] <mvo> zyga: cool
[11:46] <mborzecki> Chipaca: hmm regarding snap download, there's some code in image/helpers.go that just calls os.Exit(1) on sigint ;)
[11:46] <Chipaca> mborzecki: does it also Finalize the progress bar?
[11:47] <Chipaca> (also, yes, exit 1 would probably be the right thing to do)
[11:47] <Chipaca> (but after finalizing the progress bar)
[11:47] <mborzecki> it's Finished() followed by os.Exit()
[11:47] <Chipaca> perfect :)
[11:47] <Chipaca> Finished, Finalize, Fwhatever
[11:47] <mborzecki> hm also, snap download --remote leaves a *.partial file behind, but one that goes via snapd does not?
[11:47] <Chipaca> make-the-terminal-usable-again
[11:48] <Chipaca> mborzecki: --direct doesn't leave a .partial when interrupted?
[11:48] <Chipaca> that'd be a(nother) regression
[11:49] <mborzecki> Chipaca: --direct does leave *.partial, the non-direct one does not
[11:49]  * mborzecki tries to parse what he just wrote
[11:50] <Chipaca> mborzecki: ah, that's a known regression
[11:50] <Chipaca> mborzecki: non-direct does not know how to resume
[11:50] <Chipaca> and indeed it'll take a refactor of the download endpoint to do it
[11:57] <mvo> Chipaca: yeah, I think we need to talk what to do - I think I will give your idea of "snap download --indirect" a shoot and then we can iterate on this without regressions
[11:57] <mvo> mborzecki: thanks for looking at this so carefully!
[11:58] <Chipaca> mvo: my biggest concern is that i don't see how to get resume without a rest api refactor
[12:00] <Chipaca> actually thinking a bit more, it's a minor refactor, a change to which things are obligatory i guess
[12:00] <Chipaca> and a change to how it's used for sure
[12:00] <Chipaca> that's my brain coming back to me with this that i'd been mulling over the weekend
[12:01] <Chipaca> mvo: for snap download, what you want to do is first do an exact search by name, and take the info you get back to (1) check whether you have that file already, (2) check if you have a partial, (3) download exactly that revision, maybe with a resume in it
[12:02] <Chipaca> so the refactor for download is (a) always take the revision, and (b) optioanlly take a resume position
[12:02] <Chipaca> that's at the api level; internally it's a bit bigger of a change because snap download itself shouldn't be doing the two requests, i guess? in that maybe there's a way to not have to hit info again server-side
[12:02] <Chipaca> in the fast case at least
[12:03] <Chipaca> but that can be a later optimization
[12:03] <Chipaca> or
[12:03] <Chipaca> OR!
[12:04] <Chipaca> we could make snap download take the snap id, and then reconstructing the download irl is easier?
[12:09] <zyga> mvo: I'm working on the denial, no idea what is it yet
[12:11] <zyga> mvo: I've simplified the test and will iterate interactively on the next shell
[12:12] <mborzecki> Chipaca: for starters we could just write the data to *.partial file and rename, seeing *.snap that isn't really complete is bit confusing
[12:13] <mborzecki> cachio: did you have a patched version of spread that can run tests in a specific order?
[12:13] <cachio> mborzecki, yes
[12:14] <mborzecki> can you point me to it?
[12:14] <zyga> currently stuck on one denial:
[12:14] <zyga> cannot remount /sys/fs/cgroup read-write: Permission denied
[12:14] <zyga> Nov 04 12:13:45 nov041205-146458 audit[28564]: AVC apparmor="DENIED" operation="mount" info="failed flags match" error=-13 profile="lxd-my-ubuntu_</var/snap/lxd/common/lxd>" name="/sys/fs/cgroup/" pid=28564 comm="snap-confine" flags="rw, remount"
[12:14] <cachio> mborzecki, sure
[12:15] <zyga> I changed the apparmor profile of lxd to contain
[12:15] <zyga>   mount options=(remount, rw) /sys/fs/cgroup/,
[12:15] <cachio> mborzecki,  https://cachio.s3.amazonaws.com/spread/spread2
[12:15] <zyga> but perhaps I misunderstand, need to check what those paths map to in practice
[12:15] <mborzecki> zyga: isn't that a profile that lxd created for the container?
[12:15] <zyga> mborzecki: yes
[12:15] <mborzecki> cachio: thanks!
[12:15] <zyga> mborzecki: the denial is for the profile from lxd
[12:15] <cachio> mborzecki, np
[12:15] <zyga> mborzecki: that is what I am changing
[12:16] <zyga> mborzecki: inside the test I patch and reload that profile
[12:16] <zyga> mborzecki: on the container host
[12:16] <mborzecki> ah ok
[12:16] <cachio> just use: -order -workers 1
[12:16] <cachio> mborzecki, this will use 1 instance for all the tests
[12:17] <cachio> and run the tests in the order you add them in the command line
[12:18] <mvo> Chipaca: thank you, yeah, in some sense its an optimization
[12:18] <zyga> mborzecki: interesting, I can switch all of the apparmor for lxd into complain mode
[12:18] <mborzecki> cachio: ok, running it now
[12:18] <zyga> and it doesn't help
[12:19] <zyga> I probably don't understand what is really going on
[12:21] <mvo> mborzecki: 7665 has now conflicts :/
[12:21] <mborzecki> mvo: mhm, first trying to catch the problem with removal of /var/snap/
[12:24] <mvo> mborzecki: no worries, I can fix the conflicts
[12:26]  * pstolowski lunch
[12:29] <mborzecki> mvo: thanks for merging master to the remodel branch!
[12:31] <mvo> mborzecki: no worries, I want to see it merged :)
[12:36] <Chipaca> mvo: is there an IRL bug that triggered #7682?
[12:36] <mup> PR #7682: overlord: add kernel remodel undo tests and fix undo <Priority 🏇> <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7682>
[12:36] <cachio> zyga, hey
[12:36] <mvo> Chipaca: no real life bug
[12:37] <cachio> did you see something like this: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/6NYyBbjtMW/
[12:37] <Chipaca> mvo: phew
[12:37] <mvo> Chipaca: it was just the result of missing undo testing in the handlers code
[12:37] <mvo> Chipaca: yeah
[12:37] <cachio> it is failing on ubunto-core-18 tests on pi3 for edge cahnnel
[12:37]  * mvo gets some lunch
[12:38] <zyga> making some more progress
[12:38] <zyga> hey cachio
[12:38] <zyga> I realized lxd start / stop rewrites the container profile
[12:38] <zyga> so my changes are not effective
[12:38] <zyga> I started the container
[12:39] <zyga> and use apparmor parser to switch it to complain mode after taht
[12:39] <zyga> I used aa-status to check what the outcome is after taht
[12:39] <zyga> and see that some of the chagnes are applied, there are a number of processes with complain profiles
[12:40] <zyga> but I can see that the bulk of the container is confined
[12:40] <zyga> I'm exploring why
[12:40] <zyga> the output of aa-status is
[12:40] <zyga> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/3m0f3aYx/
[12:40] <zyga> in case someone figures out why
[12:46] <cachio> zyga, all this is related to the mount namespaces error?
[12:47] <zyga> cachio: no, this is ongoing work on new cgroup
[12:48] <cachio> ahh, ok
[12:54] <zyga> I managed to switch snap-confine profile into complain mode
[12:55] <zyga> it seems there's no propagation of any kind
[12:55] <zyga> so changing the profile on the host doesn't impact profiles derived from it in any way
[12:55] <zyga> but that's fine
[12:55] <zyga> so
[12:55] <zyga> progress:
[12:55] <zyga> snap-confine inside is in complain mode but I still get a denial
[12:55] <zyga> looking at why now :)
[12:55] <zyga> perhaps I just put the wrong one in complain mode
[12:55] <zyga> it's not re-execing
[12:55] <zyga> checking
[12:56] <zyga> more profiles in complain mode https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/cwRZuduL/
[12:58] <zyga> mvo: in the meantime I'm running all tests to see if anything is impacted , 50% there, I'll know soon
[12:58] <mborzecki> google:ubuntu-core-18-64 .../tests/main/remodel-gadget# ls /var/snap/pc
[12:58] <mborzecki> 1001  1002
[12:58] <mborzecki> heh, wtf??
[12:59]  * diddledan sees zyga wants complaints so moans that it's not bed time yet
[13:06] <zyga> _weird_
[13:06] <zyga> improvement
[13:06] <zyga> I got ALLOWED messages
[13:06] <zyga> so it did switch to complain mode
[13:06] <zyga> and the things mentioned were really about what is new in the code
[13:07] <zyga> but I got the error still
[13:07] <zyga> but even though i still got an error from ount
[13:07] <zyga> checking why
[13:08] <zyga> the error in case anyone sees error in my logic https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/9JmCN4RA/
[13:08]  * Chipaca wanders off mumbling something about lunch
[13:08] <zyga> Chipaca: good idea
[13:08] <zyga> I'll update the test to do what I did manually
[13:08] <zyga> and wrap up for lunch
[13:11] <zyga> test modified, restarted clean
[13:11] <zyga> I think it is better
[13:11] <zyga> I'll double check the code, maybe there is something silly in my patch
[13:13] <zyga> mvo: we are all doomed ;-)
[13:13] <zyga> https://m.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/experten-warnten-schon-2017-it-katastrophe-am-berliner-kammergericht-kam-mit-ansage/25163810.html
[13:14] <zyga> I want more of https://mspoweruser.com/microsoft-4-day-workweek/ though ;)
[13:15] <zyga> but first, let's ship it for vancouver
[13:15] <zyga> mvo: regular tests are move than 90% complete now
[13:15] <zyga> mvo: if anything exploded I'll know soon
[13:26] <mup> PR snapd#7718 opened: sandbox/seccomp: accept build ID generated by Go toolchain <Simple 😃> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7718>
[13:26] <mborzecki> mvo: zyga: it'd be nice to get it for 2.43
[13:26] <mborzecki> also pinged jdstrand for a review though the bit is trivial
[13:34] <cachio> mborzecki, hey, this error is hapenning when updating the arch image https://travis-ci.org/snapcore/spread-cron/builds/607000141#L2056
[13:35] <cachio> any idea ?
[13:37] <mborzecki> cachio: yeah, looks like the package needs an update
[13:37] <mborzecki> let me see if there's anything i can do about it
[13:39]  * zyga is afk for lunch now
[13:39] <zyga> only lxd and mount-ns tests failed, so good and expected
[13:40] <cachio> mborzecki, nice thanks
[13:43] <mborzecki> cachio: pinged the guy who maintains the package with a patch that should fix it, let's see if it lands today/tomorrow, if not i can fork the package, put it on github and we can pull it from that location
[13:45] <cachio> mborzecki, nice thanks!!
[13:53] <zyga> hmmm
[13:53] <zyga> stgraber: hello, can you please help me how lxd uses apparmor profiles
[13:54] <zyga> stgraber: I'm trying to understand how to switch the entire container into complain mode
[13:54] <zyga> stgraber: I tried running apparmor_parser -r --complain /var/snap/lxd/common/lxd/security/...
[13:54] <zyga> stgraber: using aa-status on the host I can see some changes but I still see a number of confined profiles
[13:54] <zyga> er, enforcing profiles
[13:55] <zyga> e.g. the output of aa-status from the container host is
[13:55] <zyga> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/08Gl52Z9/
[13:55] <zyga> I would appreciate if you can shed some light on this
[13:55] <stgraber> LXD regenerates and reload the container profile on container startup, files are mostly there to inspect but changes won't persist
[14:07] <zyga> stgraber: right, but is there more than one file to change?
[14:07] <zyga> stgraber: I'm getting things I don't quite understand, after a lot of hand-called apparmor_parser --complian --reload I get some ALLOW but still some EPERM and nothing logged with DENIED
[14:08] <zyga> stgraber: is it safe to change any profiles after the container is started?
[14:09] <zyga> stgraber: note that I suspect that "deny" rules silence logging
[14:09] <zyga> stgraber: so perhaps what I'm hitting is a deny somewhere
[14:10] <zyga> stgraber: alternatively
[14:10] <zyga> stgraber: is there a knob on lxd that would allow me to run a container with complain more apparmor?
[14:23] <zyga> 15 minute break
[14:23] <zyga> stgraber: I'm all ears if you have some ideas
[14:23] <zyga> stgraber: but I'll be sending patches to lxd to help with this case, it's a one-liner *I believe* for now
[14:25] <stgraber> zyga: what'
[14:25] <stgraber> zyga: what's the one liner?
[14:25] <zyga> stgraber: to remount /sys/fs/cgroup rw
[14:25] <zyga> all I need is
[14:25] <zyga> mount -o remount,rw /sys/fs/cgroup
[14:25] <zyga> mkdir /sys/fs/cgroup/snapd
[14:25] <zyga> mount -o remount,ro /sys/fs/cgroup
[14:26] <zyga> mount -t cgroup cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/snapd -o none,name=snapd
[14:26] <zyga> that's all
[14:26] <zyga> I believe all but the rw remount are permitted
[14:26] <stgraber> zyga: I'm reasonably sure that we cannot allow that without causing a big security issue
[14:26] <zyga> hmmm
[14:26] <zyga> because of remount or because of something else
[14:27] <zyga> please tell me what you think, it's important in our design
[14:27] <stgraber> because of the apparmor rule generator being broken
[14:28] <zyga> stgraber: is there anything we can do?
[14:28] <stgraber> if rw,remount hits the parser bug, no
[14:28] <zyga> aha
[14:28] <stgraber> adding such a rule would allow every single mounts to succeed
[14:29] <stgraber> zyga: why are you trying to mount your own v1 hierarchy anyway?
[14:29] <zyga> stgraber: can we do something else to avoid the need to mkdir, can we mkdir early in systemd somewhere?
[14:30] <zyga> stgraber: for tracking processes correctly, it's the only way we found that works well in v1 and v2 mode
[14:30] <stgraber> zyga: how do you do it in v2 where /sys/fs/cgroup is a cgroup2 mount?
[14:30] <zyga> stgraber: in /run/snapd/cgroup
[14:30] <stgraber> ah so you're assuming that a cgroup2 system will still have cgroup1 enabled in the kernel?
[14:31] <zyga> stgraber: I wanted it to be in /run/snapd/cgroup now but this is more complex to do so that it works in lxd correctly
[14:31] <zyga> stgraber: yes, for now yes
[14:31] <zyga> stgraber: we need to work on extending cgroup2 usage in systemd
[14:31] <stgraber> zyga: why would /run/snapd/cgroup be harder in LXD?
[14:31] <stgraber> zyga: that should actually be easier. Obviously you'll have the problem that this will fail on any system which doesn't have LXD on the host
[14:32] <zyga> stgraber: because /run is changed by lxd and we need to change it so that it is not necessary to have that mount inside the per-snap mount namespace
[14:32] <mup> PR snapd#7670 closed: cmd/snap: support (but warn) using deprecated multi-slash channel <Channels 🏷> <Needs Samuele review> <Created by chipaca> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7670>
[14:32] <stgraber> zyga: so you're going to break a LOT of systems, but that's going to happen regardless so long as you want your own named controller
[14:32] <zyga> stgraber: can you explain how we will break things?
[14:32] <stgraber> zyga: unprivileged users are only allowed to mount existing controllers
[14:32] <stgraber> zyga: if your host doesn't have a name=snapd controller, no container will be allowed to mount it
[14:32] <zyga> aha
[14:32] <zyga> the host will have it
[14:33] <stgraber> no it won't
[14:33] <zyga> perhaps I misunderstand
[14:33] <stgraber> not for anyone who's not using the snap
[14:33] <zyga> and are there people who are not using lxd as a snap that will run into this?
[14:33] <stgraber> so you'll break all chromebooks, all gentoo users, all alpine users, most arch users, ...
[14:33] <zyga> I see
[14:33] <zyga> that's bad news indeed
[14:33] <zyga> I wonder if we have some ideas as a way out then
[14:34] <zyga> stgraber: can you tell me more about the rule
[14:34] <stgraber> we actually ran into that very same problem when systemd introduced name=systemd in the first place
[14:34] <zyga> stgraber: about what makes the cgroup mount fail if it doesn't exist on the host
[14:34] <stgraber> any distro which wasn't using systemd was unable to run systemd containers because of it
[14:34] <zyga> stgraber: note that the feature is still not on by default, or merged for that matter
[14:34] <mborzecki> mvo: got a fix for the test failure that occurred in #7665, i'll propse it separately unless the travis job that's currently running fails
[14:34] <zyga> stgraber: we just need _a_ way to track processes reliably
[14:34] <mup> PR #7665:  devicestate: add support for gadget->gadget remodel  <Priority 🏇> <Remodel 🚋> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7665>
[14:34] <zyga> stgraber: and we have found none better than this
[14:35] <stgraber> zyga: the kernel effectively looks at all existing controllers (same list you'd see in /proc/self/cgroups) and anything that's not in that list, you can't mount unless you're real root outside of a cgroup namespace
[14:35] <zyga> I see
[14:35] <zyga> and it treats the name=... thing as a controller in this sense?
[14:36] <zyga> note that our hierarchy has no controllers at all
[14:36] <zyga> but I'm sure you know that, just checking if I understand right
[14:36] <stgraber> zyga: given that your current plan will not work on any distro which has fully transitioned to cgroup2 (no more cgroup1 in kernel) and will break for a lot of container users, it doesn't seem to me like a particularly good plan :)
[14:36] <stgraber> zyga: yes
[14:36] <zyga> stgraber: there are no better plans yet
[14:36] <stgraber> zyga: you wouldn't want an unprivileged container being able to mount thousands of those, allocating global kernel structs
[14:36] <zyga> stgraber: pure v2 doesn't let us track processes because we'll interfere with systemd
[14:37] <stgraber> zyga: can't you just keep snap-confine as the parent of the processes in the snap and make it a subreaper?
[14:38] <mborzecki> zyga: stgraber: tbh we don't seem to have a reliable, race free way of tracking processes in v2 world without complicating things
[14:38] <zyga> stgraber: if we do that, we know if a process dies
[14:38] <zyga> stgraber: but not if there are any left
[14:38] <stgraber> zyga: but you know that when you die all subprocesses will too
[14:38] <zyga> stgraber: we'd need to match fork and exit reliably but that's not what subreaper can do
[14:39] <zyga> stgraber: I'm not sure I follow, are you saying that we can then kill snap-confine tracking process to kill all the children?
[14:39] <stgraber> zyga: yes
[14:39] <zyga> stgraber: that's not what we are trying to do
[14:40] <zyga> stgraber: the goal is to know when it's safe to refresh
[14:40] <zyga> stgraber: when no apps are running
[14:40] <zyga> stgraber: in a zygote-like mode when snap-confine sticks around and watches processes die
[14:41] <zyga> stgraber: we could perhaps know something useful but I don't believe we can do what we want to with just that
[14:43] <zyga> mborzecki, mvo: I think we need to abort and come up with another idea
[14:43] <zyga> based on what stgraber said above I don't believe this is something we can salvage unfortunately
[14:44] <zyga> this still leaves us with no tracking, let alone notification past v1
[14:45] <zyga> stgraber: how did you fix the issue affecting systemd needing to mount name=systemd
[14:46] <stgraber> zyga: most distros switched to systemd, the rest are mounting the systemd controller on the host anyway
[14:46] <zyga> stgraber: I see
[14:47] <mvo> mborzecki: thank you
[14:48] <zyga> mvo, mborzecki: can we meet later today
[14:48] <stgraber> zyga: so sadly there's no nice way that I know for you to get notified when a namespace goes away, otherwise you could use something like a uts namespace
[14:48] <zyga> I have an idea
[14:49] <zyga> stgraber: I planned to use release agent on the name=snapd hierarchy
[14:49] <zyga> but thinking about it now
[14:49] <zyga> how to work without any cgroups
[14:49] <stgraber> zyga: have one namespace per snap, dump all new processes in there, then when you want to know if the snap is safe to refresh, check if any process uses it
[14:49] <zyga> stgraber: one uts namespace?
[14:49] <zyga> stgraber: and in v2 mode?
[14:49] <zyga> stgraber: in v1 we can use the freezer for that
[14:50] <zyga> stgraber: (note that we need to have per-app understanding in our current model but perhaps we could drop that)
[14:50] <zyga> stgraber: but what the name=snapd idea was about is something that works both in v1 and v2 mode
[14:50] <stgraber> zyga: doesn't matter v1/v2, this wouldn't use cgroups at all
[14:50] <zyga> ah
[14:50] <zyga> sorry
[14:50] <zyga> I didn't understand
[14:50] <zyga> uts namespace
[14:50] <zyga> so iterate over process
[14:51] <zyga> and check which uts namespace is used by each?
[14:51] <zyga> and check if any of those match that of our snap processes?
[14:51] <stgraber> yeah, that's the part that's not amazing, having to iterate but otherwise should work fine
[14:51] <zyga> yes
[14:51] <zyga> that might w
[14:51] <zyga> that might work
[14:51] <zyga> I was thinking to use the existing mount namespace
[14:51] <zyga> given that we already create one for strict snaps
[14:51] <zyga> and are about to for classic snaps
[14:52] <stgraber> yeah but your mntns are per snap + per user or something so that wouldn't work so well
[14:52] <mup> PR snapd#7682 closed: overlord: add kernel remodel undo tests and fix undo <Priority 🏇> <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7682>
[14:52] <zyga> stgraber: yes
[14:52] <zyga> stgraber: so you are saying we could create and save one for each pkg.app pair
[14:53] <stgraber> the tracking with a uts namespace would still be bypassable by any snap allowed to do fancy clone/unshare, but that's unlikely to really matter, you're not building security on this, if a snap wants to make itself break on refresh, whatever :)
[14:54] <zyga> stgraber: correct but the kind of snaps that would be hurt by this (think things like docker) really would as they would get unexpected refresh semantics
[14:54] <zyga> stgraber: but thank you for the idea, I think this is workable
[14:54] <stgraber> zyga: yeah, on initial startup, you'd unshare the uts namespace, bind-mount its inode somewhere in /run/snap as you do for mntns, then any new process gets added using setns and to see if it's safe, you iterate through /proc for anything that has a matching inode on ns/uts
[14:55] <zyga> stgraber: correct
[14:55] <zyga> stgraber: I agree this would work
[14:55] <stgraber> you could even make actual use of the uts namespace and give each snap a unique hostname
[14:55] <zyga> stgraber: I think that will break snaps
[14:55] <zyga> stgraber: especially it would be unexpected for snap with classic confinement
[14:56] <stgraber> indeed :)
[14:56] <zyga> stgraber: or maybe the time namespace
[14:56] <zyga> ;-)
[14:56] <stgraber> one thing to keep in mind is that if the hostname changes on the host, it won't in the snap
[14:56] <zyga> stgraber: yeah, I think it's a good route but we need to plan which namespace to use
[14:56] <zyga> uts doesn't feel like it
[14:56] <stgraber> you certainly don't want to use ipc, mnt, net, pid or user
[14:56] <zyga> I would ideally do it via mount namespace and just save those with finer granularity
[14:56] <stgraber> so you have two options really
[14:57] <mborzecki> feels like it's the same borderline use as the pids controller right now
[14:57] <zyga> I think mount is indeed unworkable on second thought
[14:57] <stgraber> mount is the most used namespace, a lot of software mess with it and snapd already has more than one mntns per snap, so seems pretty hard to track
[14:58] <stgraber> cgroup and uts are the two easy ones, cgroup may actually be a better option
[14:58] <stgraber> hmm, though it may seem weird
[14:58] <stgraber> yeah, no, don't use cgroup, you'll break lxd :)
[14:59] <stgraber> uts won't break us though, the only issue with it is the hostname changes not getting propagated until a snap restart, but I don't think anyone will really notice/care
[15:00] <stgraber> zyga: we could probably do something with pidfds though, but that's likely to be an issue due to lack of kernel support right now and it still being in very active development (by us)
[15:00] <zyga> stgraber: how about netlink
[15:00] <zyga> and observing all process activity
[15:00]  * cachio lunch
[15:00] <zyga> so match fork/exec/exit
[15:01] <stgraber> zyga: I didn't think we had a reliable API for that in netlink, short of having to ptrace stuff
[15:01] <zyga> stgraber: I think there's something, not ptrace, there's a program that shows that (fork exec across all system) using netlink
[15:01] <stgraber> zyga: also, that'll break when snapd restarts as you'll miss all those events
[15:01] <zyga> but yeah, I don't know how that works yet
[15:01] <zyga> stgraber: yes, it'd have to be a special process that's never quitting
[15:01] <stgraber> and if it's relying on tracing, then it won't work in containers
[15:01] <zyga> zygote like per snap
[15:02] <zyga> AFAIK it is pure netlink
[15:02] <mborzecki> stgraber: alternative we considered before was putting the process in a well-known cgroup name eg. snap.app under the cgroup created for it by systemd (just one level deeper), but that'd involve walking /proc/*/cgroup
[15:02] <mborzecki> and walking /proc/*/cgroup feels like a bad idea
[15:03] <zyga> in v2 everything is somewhere in a hierarchy somewhere
[15:04] <stgraber> zyga: forkstat/netlink connector requires real root
[15:04] <zyga> stgraber: I see
[15:04] <zyga> stgraber: thank you for checking
[15:05] <stgraber> zyga: it's also apparently lossy, under load there's no delivery guarantee
[15:06] <zyga> stgraber: thank you, this is even more relevant
[15:07] <zyga> stgraber: anything we could use to tag a process with
[15:07] <zyga> stgraber: I don't mind enumeration
[15:07] <zyga> it won't be done all the time
[15:07] <zyga> just in special moments
[15:07] <zyga> I just want to see if we can identify a process as belonging to a snap
[15:08] <zyga> even weird things like containers
[15:08] <zyga> stgraber: thank you for all the input, it was invaluable,
[15:08] <zyga> I think we need to rethink the idea
[15:09] <stgraber> zyga: there have been discussions about ptags in the past but nothing ever got merged
[15:09] <mup> PR snapd#7719 opened: tests/main/gadget-update-pc: cleanup per-revision directories <Simple 😃> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7719>
[15:10] <mborzecki> mvo: this addresses the failures due to /var/snap/pc/<rev> directories being left behind in the tests
[15:10] <mborzecki> mvo: ^^
[15:10] <stgraber> zyga: effectively arbitrary process tags which would be inherited and could even be marked immutable in some cases, it was one of the ideas put forth to solve the audit id issue for containers but after years of bikeshedding, nothing really happened
[15:11] <mvo> mborzecki: nice, *thank you*
[15:13] <zyga> stgraber: utterly crazy idea, set timerclask_ns to a unique value, use that
[15:13] <zyga> timerslack_ns
[15:14] <diddledan> I prefer timertelegram_ns :-p
[15:14] <diddledan> slack is second place :-D
[15:16] <mvo> mborzecki: but in a meeting right now so will look in a bit
[15:36] <mup> PR snapd#7719 closed: tests/main/gadget-update-pc: cleanup per-revision directories <Simple 😃> <Created by bboozzoo> <Closed by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7719>
[15:48] <zyga> mvo: do you have time today?
[15:48] <zyga> mvo: for a 10 minute call?
[15:49] <zyga> mborzecki: do you have any technical ideas?
[15:49] <zyga> mborzecki: or can we exchange ideas before your EOD
[15:49] <zyga> mborzecki: it's fine to say no, perhaps at this stage having some rest would help
[15:49] <zyga> mborzecki: I don't see a way to solve this issue now
[15:50] <mborzecki> zyga: tomorrow morning, i'm taking kids to some extra classes in 10
[15:50] <zyga> ok
[15:50] <zyga> thank you
[15:59] <xnox> stgraber:  can snapd run inside lxd, on travis, on arm64? https://travis-ci.org/snapcore/core20/jobs/600808794?utm_medium=notification&utm_source=github_status
[15:59] <xnox> stoopkid:  i see that core snap fails to setup security profiles?
[15:59] <xnox> stoopkid:  unping
[15:59] <xnox> stoopkid:  i see that core snap fails to setup security profiles, and i'm trying to get arm64 ci going with travis.
[16:00] <zyga> it seems udevadm failed
[16:00] <zyga> exit code 2
[16:01] <xnox> i'll restart the build to see if things got any better
[16:06] <mup> PR snapd#7680 closed: daemon: parse and reject invalid channels in snap ops <Channels 🏷> <Simple 😃> <Created by chipaca> <Merged by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7680>
[16:07] <stgraber> xnox: just try to run the snap install twice
[16:07] <stgraber> xnox: that's usually enough for those
[16:07] <Chipaca> #7671 needs two (2!) reviews, and it's the last chunk of the channels preparatory work
[16:07] <mup> PR #7671: overlord/patch: normalize tracking channel in state <Channels 🏷> <Needs Samuele review> <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7671>
[16:08] <zyga> Chipaca: is it okay if I call it quits now, sorry, if it was one review I'd jump in
[16:08] <zyga> but I need to break, think and move a little
[16:08] <Chipaca> zyga: you can call it quits any time you need to
[16:08] <Chipaca> zyga: also: stepping away from the keyboard to think is not quitting
[16:08] <zyga> and all my work is essentially down the drain today
[16:08] <zyga> so need to think if anything can save it
[16:08]  * Chipaca hugs zyga
[16:08]  * diddledan hugs too
[16:08]  * zyga hugs Chipaca
[16:08] <zyga> thank you guys!
[16:09]  * zyga hugs diddledan too :)
[16:09] <zyga> anything, as crazy as possible, that technically works, is good
[16:09] <zyga> I'll grab my bike and go for a ride
[16:14] <mvo> zyga: was in meetings, sorry
[16:33] <oSoMoN> jdstrand, when do you plan on making a release of review-tools that includes https://git.launchpad.net/review-tools/commit/?id=31c894178a8fd110b9f65f0ee532b7e11384f8b8 ?
[16:41] <jdstrand> oSoMoN: let me prepare a release now
[16:41] <oSoMoN> perfect, thanks!
[16:46] <jdstrand> roadmr: hi! would you mind pulling 20191104-1644UTC?
[16:47] <roadmr> jdstrand: sure
[16:49] <jdstrand> roadmr: thanks :)
[16:49] <jdstrand> oSoMoN: fyi ^ (will be a bit before in production)
[16:50] <oSoMoN> cheers
[16:58] <zyga> jdstrand: no name=snapd for now
[16:59] <zyga> jdstrand: if you want to know more I can summarize
[16:59] <zyga> jdstrand: if not we're going to discuss more tomorrow to see if we have other options
[16:59] <jdstrand> zyga: I read backscroll
[16:59] <jdstrand> zyga: it's too bad cause it seemed really elegant. guess it was too elegant, but good thing we got stgraber in the loop
[17:00] <zyga> yes, the lesson I learned is to ask more experts early
[17:00] <zyga> I wasn't aware of the extra limitations on rootless containers
[17:00] <zyga> actually
[17:01] <zyga> one idea
[17:01] <xnox> stgraber:  har har har
[17:01] <zyga> stgraber: can you answer one more question please
[17:01] <zyga> stgraber: if we set a subreaper per snaps
[17:01] <zyga> *per snap*
[17:01] <zyga> stgraber: will we be able to follow that chain reliably
[17:01] <zyga> from random process, to their parent pid, to the subreaper
[17:01] <zyga> so that effectively, as long as the "watcher" subreapers are alive
[17:01] <zyga> we can reliably trace lineage?
[17:02] <zyga> so the idea is that instead of killing the watchers to kill the "container"
[17:03] <zyga> we can just scan all processes and try to match them to the reaper
[17:04] <zyga> hmmm, reading the man page it seems not useful
[17:04] <zyga> because it is not preserved across fork/clone
[17:04] <zyga> but is across exec
[17:04] <zyga> so we could watch our immediately forked process die
[17:05] <zyga> and if they had any children processes, we could watch them die if their parent (that we started) did quit
[17:05] <zyga> but I don't see anything in the man page linking the descendants to the reaper in a way that can be read
[17:06]  * zyga goes to experiment
[17:06] <zyga> maybe it's not too bad actually
[17:43] <mup> PR snapcraft#2783 closed: cli: run review tools before pushing to the store if available <Created by sergiusens> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2783>
[17:45] <zyga> stgraber ^ this works
[17:45] <zyga> jdstrand: ^ this works
[17:45] <zyga> we can track all children existence
[17:45] <zyga> it's even better because the reaper can quit when they all all gone
[17:46] <zyga> so all we need to do is to unlink a "this snap is busy" file then
[17:46] <zyga> stgraber: ^
[17:46] <mup> PR snapcraft#2785 closed: remote-build: add initial command unit tests <Created by cjp256> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2785>
[17:49] <zyga> a super-simple interactive reaper
[17:49] <zyga> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/kYqhmWGtn3/
[17:49] <zyga> I don't know if this can be made to work with proper pid tracking (e.g. how would this ever work for services)
[17:49] <zyga> but it's *something*
[17:49] <zyga> need to ponder on it more
[18:08] <ondra> sergiusens did we change way SNAPCRAFT_PROJECT_DIR behaves? I'm getting empty string there
[18:08] <ondra> sergiusens SNAPCRAFT_PROJECT_NAME and SNAPCRAFT_PROJECT_GRADE seems to work fine
[18:14] <sergiusens> ondra: no we did not change it
[18:15] <ondra> sergiusens then there is regression, as suddenly I'm getting empty string
[18:22] <sergiusens> ondra: on stable?
[18:22] <ondra> sergiusens stable and candidate
[18:22] <ondra> sergiusens at least what I tested
[18:23] <sergiusens> ondra: well stable has not changed for the pass 2 months
[18:23] <ondra> sergiusens hmm, then it must be this particular snap triggering it
[18:31] <ondra> sergiusens defo happening also with stable
[21:33] <litheum> it seems like snap is doing something terribly wrong with apparmor on lubuntu 18.04. i've installed both snap-store and vlc and both of them just throw tons of apparmor errors when i try to start them.
[21:49] <Chipaca> litheum: could you open a topic about this in the forum?
[21:49] <Chipaca> litheum: it should just work :-) if it doesn't we want to fix it
[21:49] <Chipaca> but I, personally, don't want to even think about fixing it at this time
[21:50] <Chipaca> :-) 'm off to bed
[23:23] <mup> PR snapcraft#2791 opened: introduce bind-ssh support <Created by cjp256> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2791>


[03:16] <lwizardl> Hello
[03:16] <lwizardl> any video editors here tonight ?
[03:46] <ScottL> lwizardl, sure
[03:46] <ScottL> lwizardl, but i use blender for editing, not many use it though
[04:16] <lwizardl> ScottL, ok what i'm looking to do is setup a Ubuntu Studio to mimic a similar setup to an AVID video editor system
[04:43] <ScottL> sorry lwizardl , i don't know anything about the avid system
[04:43] <lwizardl> ok basically it is ProTools etc
[04:44] <lwizardl> using the external console control boards
[04:44] <ScottL> if you can describe the workflow maybe we can find you an alternative workflow within linux
[04:46] <ScottL> although i need to log off for a while so i can upgrade my system
[05:15] <nevyn> note alternative not equivilent sometimes people get confused about this.
[05:31] <Blank__> cinelerra and ardour are probably the closest you'll get
[06:52] <lwizardl> yeah I wall looking at ardour
[06:52] <lwizardl> and seem similar
[06:53] <lwizardl> but wasn't sure if it would support the USB controllers for audio mixing
[06:54] <nevyn> lwizardl: are they midi control surfaces?
[06:54] <nevyn> or something more exotic.
[06:54] <nevyn> like the ethernet connected transportMSP controls are unlikely to work
[06:54] <nevyn> standard midi controls should justwork.
[06:55] <lwizardl> from my understanding they are just controllers that simulate having real mixing boards and are design to function within the ProTools software
[06:55] <nevyn> lwizardl: which ones do you have?
[06:55] <lwizardl> I don't have any yet
[06:56]  * nevyn has a bcf2000 which is a 8 ch fader control surface that works with ardour quite happily
[06:56] <lwizardl> I plan to only use linux tools and only wanted to buy them if they work for linux
[06:58] <nevyn> well a bcf2000 is cheap but the motorised faders are kinda noisy
[06:58] <nevyn> I don't have experience with anything else but control surfaces can get mighty expensive.
[06:59] <lwizardl> yeah I think these are like $200+ each
[07:00] <nevyn> a bcf2000 is more than 200 new
[07:00] <lwizardl> I plan to setup a small studio for doing video editing and audio recording for me, family, etc and I know I can do everything with just the mouse
[07:01] <nevyn> a MCU with 16 channels could be 1-2 grand
[07:01] <lwizardl> but for quicker access these might help
[07:03] <nevyn> right so a base mcu is like 1200 bucks and a 8 ch expansion is like 800
[07:04] <lwizardl> damn ok pass on the control surfaces seems they are like 9k each at guitar center
[07:04] <nevyn> right but a cheap control surface like the BCF2000 is about $300 or so
[07:05] <lwizardl> ah ok
[07:05] <lwizardl> and those are linux compatible for studio ?
[07:05] <nevyn> but it's made in china by behringer and theres stigma associated with that.
[07:06] <nevyn> and the faders are noisier than the good mackie/a&h stuff
[07:06] <nevyn> but it's about a 5th of the price
[07:06] <nevyn> they work with ardour yes.
[07:07] <lwizardl> cool
[07:08] <lwizardl> this is it ? http://www.synthtopia.com/synth_review/Behringer/Behringer-BCF2000.html
[07:08] <nevyn> what's your budget? what do you need are you planning to do music or just happy clips
[07:08] <nevyn> yep that looks like mine
[07:09] <nevyn> I got mine for $140 at the local thrift store because someone screwed up the firmware.
[07:09] <nevyn> loaded firmware and it's good as gold.
[07:09] <nevyn> thats $140 australian not us (tho they're roughly equivilent currently)
[07:10] <lwizardl> well the goal for now is to be able to edit my videos I shoot and then edit the audio as needed to fix any distortions, and also I would like to be able to record my own voice for voice overs, and such
[07:11] <nevyn> so you're not after ultra fidelity 96/24 but you need a reasonable voice mic and a way to interface it to the pc.
[07:12] <nevyn> you're not planning to record any live music? or a band.
[07:13] <lwizardl> yeah exactly
[07:13] <lwizardl> I was thinking about getting the M-Box to do the interface
[07:14] <nevyn> umm be careful with usb interfaces.
[07:14] <nevyn> which M-Box were you considering?
[07:15] <nevyn> what's your total budget and what pieces are you missing?
[07:16] <lwizardl> mini 2 was the one i was looking at http://www.guitarcenter.com/Digidesign-MBox-2-Mini-Educational-2009-106071921-i1452802.gc
[07:16] <lwizardl> so far all i have is the computer
[07:16] <nevyn> camera?
[07:16] <nevyn> microphone[s]
[07:16] <lwizardl> dual core 2.9ghz, 4 gb ram, 1tb hdd
[07:16] <nevyn> capture interfaces?
[07:17] <lwizardl> camera i just have this generic bestbuy 720p thing
[07:17] <nevyn> that's cool
[07:17] <lwizardl> nope nothing else
[07:22] <nevyn> I've got to go home.
[07:23] <lwizardl> ok I was just looking at what all i will need
[12:23] <composingmotion> hey, I recently installed ubuntu studio audio package on my kde install, which had the effect of killing my audio where should I start?
[12:24] <Blank__> no idea... but if you don't mind a reformat, check out KXStudio - KDE based studio distro that i'd say is even better than ubuntu studio
[12:24] <persia> When you say "killing my audio", what do you mean, in detail?
[12:24] <Blank__> (but that's just me)
[12:24] <composingmotion> well I have no sound now
[12:24] <persia> None?  Not even from aplay?
[12:25] <composingmotion> aplay? no system sounds, no music, no flash audio...
[12:25] <persia> OK.  Find a WAV file.  run `aplay foo.wav`.  See if that works.
[12:26]  * persia is starting at a low level
[12:30] <composingmotion> no luck
[12:31] <persia> No audio, or no luck finding a wav?
[12:31] <composingmotion> aplay seems to be working, no sound though "Playing WAVE 'airplane.wav' : Unsigned 8 bit, Rate 11025 Hz, Mono"
[12:36] <persia> OK.  If you run `alsamixer` do you see any muted channels?  ('Esc' quits)
[12:39] <composingmotion> its only showing two,'Master,Capture" neither are muted. I even muted them and unmuted them just to make sure.
[12:39] <composingmotion> there were more.. than two before
[12:40] <composingmotion> thank you for your help. btw
[12:40] <persia> And you have no USB or Firewire audio connections, right?
[12:41] <composingmotion> yeah, nothing is plugged into either usb or firewire
[12:43] <persia> And this was just `apt-get install ubuntustudio-audio`?
[12:45] <composingmotion> I used synaptic, it was ubuntustudio-audio and ubuntustudio-audio-plugins
[12:47] <persia> synaptic vs. apt-get oughtn't matter in the least.
[12:48] <persia> And the plugins ought mostly be innocuous
[12:49] <persia> Hrm.  Sorry, I've just looked through a list of packages I'd expect you to have installed, and at some of the relevant scripts that would run during installation, and I'm not sure why you'd end up not showing your mixers for ALSA.
[12:49] <persia> have you rebooted since the install?
[12:49] <composingmotion> yes
[12:50] <composingmotion> my alsa mixer, jack, ardour were all working before.. I just wanted to get the few extra packages..
[12:51] <persia> You were using JACK *successfully* before, and now you can't.  Ugh.
[12:51] <persia> I'm sorry.  Your issue is lower-level than I understand.
[12:52] <persia> Something went very wrong, but it's unclear what.
[12:52] <persia> Please file a bug with `ubuntu-bug audio`: it ends up looking like a kernel bug, but that's OK: the audio team will do the right thing.
[12:53] <persia> What you have experienced should never happen, and it would be good to get a snapshot of the state of your audio to the relevant developers.
[12:53] <composingmotion> ok, how do I take said snapshot?
[12:54] <persia> I *think* `ubuntu-bug audio` will collect all the right logs, etc.
[12:54] <persia> It might be something silly like needing to reset asound.state or some odd messiness from some settings package.
[12:54] <persia> Unfortunately, I'd be shooting blind if I suggested any specific thing to do.
[12:56] <composingmotion> ok thanks for your help,really. I will go ahead and submit the relevant logs after i run ubuntu bug audio
[12:56] <persia> Thanks.  Sorry I couldn't figure it out.
[14:29] <mr_boo> hi
[14:29] <mr_boo> does the current release of ubuntu studio use the -generic kernel?
[14:30] <poine> mr_boo, yes
[14:31] <mr_boo> my experiency says that the Jack application doesn't run well under the generic kernel
[14:32] <mr_boo> would this suggest that ubuntu studio Lucid is way better idea than Meerkat?
[14:34] <mr_boo> do you use the Meerkat version poine ?
[14:37] <poine> mister boo, I do and I can't use my soundcard since I upgraded
[14:42] <mr_boo> lol
[14:43] <mr_boo> wonder why on earth the meerkat version of ubuntustudio even exists
[17:41] <armitage> hi
[17:41] <armitage> all
[17:41] <armitage> can i ask a question
[17:41] <armitage> ?
[18:21] <ScottL> poine, if you are interested in a realtime kernel you might speak with abogani when he is on IRC
[18:22] <ScottL> he may be able to assist you to create a realtime kernel
[18:22] <ScottL> operative word is "may"
[18:22] <poine> ScottL, willdo
[18:22] <ScottL> and you would expect to do the work, not him, but he may be willing to explain the process
[18:23] <poine> but I don't really have time to devote to this. I devote all my time to another free software project. Music is just.. a hobby
[18:23] <ScottL> poine, just so you know, abogani was building all of our kernels but doesn't have the time or energy to maintain them all
[18:23] <ScottL> the reason he dropped them was because of lack of support from users (who did a lot of complaining mind you)
[18:24] <poine> i know that - I'm very grateful for that - until now I hav always used his kernels, with great success
[18:30] <poine> and as a free software programmer, I know the bitter feeling of getting only complaints as reward for your hard work
[20:53] <ScottL> poine, what do you work on as a free software programmer?
[21:52] <poine> Scottl  : http://www.paparazzi.enac.fr
[21:52] <poine> mmmm
[21:52] <poine> http://paparazzi.enac.fr
[22:02] <poine> recently we've added linux-boards to the supported hardware - and I've discovered what a nightmare it is to package and distribute a linux distro and associated cross compilation toolchain. openembedded in this case


 i think ubuntu is not suitable for matrix hacking. it wouldn't be cool to hack matrix with adware
[02:16] <bazhang>  18mil terabytpe
[02:16] <bazhang> 18 million terabyte drive?
[02:16] <bazhang> is he from the future?
[02:43] <zykotick9> bazhang: you are a great OP in #ubuntu, but why suggest pastebin.com when paste.ubuntu.com exists?  that is all.
[03:23] <chu> bazhang: :)
[03:27] <Unit193> Because one paste service is better than the other?  Or easier to remember.
[03:52] <elky> because pastes in paste.ubuntu.com live forever, pastebin.com gets purged, and users put stupid things in pastebins
[03:53] <elky> i'd actually be suggesting something that doesn't get indexed, like privatepaste.com
[04:03] <chu> So, the recent email regarding #ubuntu-discuss, if #ubuntu-offtopic *isn't* the place for it, should we set something in the topic for #ubuntu-offtopic (such as: "Want to discuss Ubuntu ideas? Consider #ubuntu-discuss!" or something) as a way of advertising it and promoting it?
[04:04] <Tm_T> chu: yes
[04:04] <chu> I must admit, I don't entirely *know* what #ubuntu-discuss is for (beyond literally just the channel name, but that seems quite general and applicable in #ubuntu-offtopic), so I don't really know what sort of advertisement/promotion would be appropriate.
[04:05] <Tm_T> ...and many other actions to make it really part of our channel landscape
[04:08] <Tm_T> chu: the idea has been that the channel is for anything that is ubuntu discussion but doesn't fall under user support
[04:09] <Tm_T> chu: for example not-yet-released products
[04:09] <chu> Is it strictly Ubuntu, or Canonical aswell?
[04:09] <Tm_T> both
[04:10] <elky> chu, to me, it's main appeal is that all the tiny niche areas which have their own deserted channels can redirect to there and have more audience to discuss with
[04:10] <elky> its*
[04:10] <Tm_T> we don't want to have canonical saying "we have this new hot product coming at some point, if any questions go to #ubuntu!" ...
[04:11] <elky> sadly, #ubuntu-marketing is still not redirected there :(
[04:11] <Tm_T> elky: good point
[04:11] <elky> and people come in and ask the crickets things and go away sad and ignored
[04:12] <elky> Tm_T, yeaaah, and not sending those people into an -ot regular's blathering is ideal.
[04:12] <Tm_T> -ot is totally wrong place too
[04:12] <elky> yeah
[04:12] <elky> on so many levels
[04:12] <Tm_T> I still don't like this "yet another channel" syndrome, but now it looks as the only sane solution
[04:14] <elky> well, i only put my support behind it if it was going to be used to consolidate "other channels"
[04:14] <elky> i don't think that's happened yet, which doesn't impress me at all
[04:16] <chu> I will try and promote it more - there has been some people coming into #ubuntu-offtopic in recent times (being the past few months) who have had questions which are probably more related to #ubuntu-discuss, and I will do my best to direct them there from now on.
[04:16] <Tm_T> I'd say we haven't even put an effort to use -discuss yet
[04:17] <Tm_T> neither has canonical, yet (;
[04:22] <elky> well, all it needs is a mail to the marketing list saying "Due to its nature, low traffic and non-existant management, we are going to redirect #channel to #ubuntu-discuss in $timeframe. Speak now or forever hold your peace."
[04:22] <elky> and then a week later making it so
[04:22] <elky> or whtever $timeframe is
[04:23] <elky> nobody's done that yet
[04:23] <elky> and s/marketing/relevant/
[04:25] <chu> Is that saying that #ubuntu-[relevant] will be retired in favour of #ubuntu-discuss?
[04:32] <Tm_T> allright, I suppose it's time to move this corpse toward the office
[04:48] <elky> chu, essentially, but defines what "retire" means
[04:50] <chu> Ahh, I guess "closed" after $timeframe? There's probably a better way of saying it, but hopefully that gets the point. Sorry, I'm very slow at the moment
[04:50] <elky> go to sleep you silly man
[04:51] <chu> I can't now though, 4 hours ok *maybe*, but now it's too late and I need to wrap around
[04:52] <elky> well, you just need to last another 2hrs actually, then sleeping 6 to 6 would be "sensible"
[04:53] <elky> depending how long you think you'd last for
[04:53] <elky> (sleeping)
[04:54] <chu> It'll be a while I imagine
[07:04] <HiggsPossum> uh oh
[07:25] <Tm_T> Jordan_U: I'm not slow!
[07:25]  * Tm_T hides
[07:25] <Jordan_U> :)
[07:26] <bkerensa> =s
[07:26] <bkerensa> crassus is blowing my PM
[07:27] <bkerensa> blowing up*
[16:24] <bazhang> troll detected
[16:25] <gnomefreak> loke == troll?
[16:27] <bazhang> lukecarrier in #ubuntu
[16:28] <gnomefreak> ah
[17:22] <bazhang> may as well just allow /amsg across all Ubuntu channels at this point
[17:23] <IdleOne> ?
[17:24] <bazhang> simplew / O_comprido constantly crossposting +1 issues in #ubuntu
[17:24] <bazhang> after repeated warnings
[17:24] <IdleOne> let me try explaining it to them one more time in +1
[17:26] <bazhang> he did not even wait FIVE seconds before crossposting
[17:27] <IdleOne> wether he waited 5 seconds or 5 hours makes no difference really. +1 is not supported in #ubuntu.
[17:29] <mneptok> that user was first told that a long time ago. i think they are x-posting to try to get ActionParsnip's help.
[17:29] <bazhang> and the story changes each time
[17:30] <bazhang> mneptok, yep. he asked actionparsnip for help in #ubuntu then asked him to /join +1
[17:30] <mneptok> see? i pay attention.
[17:31] <bazhang> heh
[17:31] <bazhang> I NEVER doubted that
[17:31] <mneptok> well, i wasn't sure if you did. because i so infrequently pay attention.
[17:31] <bazhang> you are just more ninja about it all
[17:31] <bazhang> haha
[17:32] <mneptok> O:)
[17:34] <IdleOne> bazhang: he has been warned. feel free to deal with them as you see fit in #ubuntu :)
[17:34] <IdleOne> So now he is just going to lie and say he is running quantal :/
[17:36] <bazhang> IdleOne, yep. thanks


[01:50] <UBuxuBU> made mistake using plank-made it invisible-once i did that i cannot see the very edge of the plank to be able to click on it to get into preferences now i do not want it invisible anymore but i cannot change back
[02:39] <UBuxuBU> peace
[03:23] <grunt22fox> Eyyy
[03:23] <grunt22fox> I need some help
[03:23] <rud0lf> rather tell your problem then look for a person
[03:24] <grunt22fox> I installed Discord through a deb file and I can't find it anywhere to uninstall
[03:24] <grunt22fox> Tried software, and tried an archive manager
[03:25] <rud0lf> apt remove discord
[03:25] <rud0lf> maybe
[03:25] <rud0lf> try apt remove dis
[03:25] <rud0lf> and press tab
[03:25] <rud0lf> it should autocomplete
[03:26] <grunt22fox> nope
[03:26] <grunt22fox> It didn't work
[03:26] <grunt22fox> It's just sitting there in my menu
[03:26] <rud0lf> hm
[03:27] <grunt22fox> If I look in edit launcher it brings up env BAMF_DESKTOP_FILE_HINT=/var/lib/snapd/desktop/applications/discord_discord.desktop /snap/bin/discord %U
[03:27] <grunt22fox> That was the command
[03:30] <grunt22fox> So basically heres what happened
[03:30] <grunt22fox> I installed Discord through deb
[03:31] <grunt22fox> then I installed it through Software\
[03:32] <grunt22fox> so yeah its pretty annoying
[03:32] <grunt22fox> If you find anything I would love to know
[03:45] <grunt22fox> just gonna reinstall xubuntu
[16:52] <diogenes_> Happy Halloween!
[16:58] <xubuntu16i> join
[16:59] <xubuntu16i> hello evereboy
[17:00] <Spass> hello xubuntu16i
[17:06] <kumool> anyway to start a terminal in a certain workspace?
[17:07] <kumool> or anything really=
[17:09] <GridCube> !info wmctrl
[17:10] <GridCube> https://linux.die.net/man/1/wmctrl
[17:10] <kumool> thanks GridCube
[17:10] <Spass> Devil's Pie with "set_workspace" should also work
[17:11] <Spass> (but I don't use it, so I don't really know)
[17:12] <GridCube> i don't really know much of any of those options anyway
[17:12] <GridCube> i always disable all workspaces but one
[17:13] <kumool> I would also do the same thing except i tend to use 2 terminals linked as one, I probably should use a vertical pane and not have to use workspaces but...
[19:50] <UBuxuBU> i still have not solved my issue: the controls in xubuntu and my Fn keys will not lighten or darken my display screen. it appears the devs simply turned it off somewhere in the OS, i need help turning it on or making it work.
[21:07] <UBuxuBU> why am i power mgr acces denied error
[21:13] <brainwash> UBuxuBU: what does that mean?
[21:14] <UBuxuBU> i went to kitchen put laptop lid down and when i openeded it saw the error on the upper right of screen
[21:14] <UBuxuBU> where the notifications are
[21:14] <UBuxuBU> then it went away
[21:15] <UBuxuBU> seems meaningless
[21:16] <brainwash> bug 1768038
[21:50] <UBuxuBU> http://i.imgur.com/EpwKzN6.png