[00:03] <cjwatson> Yeah
[00:03] <cjwatson> Are you doing d-i then?  I should probably make lunchboxes for tomorrow.
[00:04] <infinity> cjwatson: I am.  Go do family stuff, crazy man.
[00:05]  * infinity looks sideways at the seeds that still say 3.4.0-5
[00:09] <infinity> ... because typing 'bzr up' is hard.
[00:10] <infinity> Evidently, my seed fetching cronjob failed.
[00:29]  * skaet back
[00:38] <infinity> skaet: I pulled the studio fixes in from -proposed with the kernel.
[00:38] <infinity> skaet: (It's all publishing right now, and then I'll upload d-i)
[00:38] <skaet> infinity, thanks for the update.   was just working through the back scroll and wondering
[00:38] <skaet> :)
[00:39] <cjwatson> I suggest uploading d-i directly to quantal
[00:39] <cjwatson> Otherwise you'll have to mess about copying files around by hand (for the last time ever)
[00:40] <skaet> +1
[00:40] <infinity> cjwatson: That was the plan.
[00:41] <infinity> cjwatson: Hence why I'm waiting for the proposed->updates publishing run.
[00:41] <cjwatson> Oh, I wonder if d-i needs munging for -updates still
[00:41] <infinity> Err, proposed->release.
[00:41] <infinity> La la la.
[00:41] <cjwatson> Ah yes
[00:41] <cjwatson> In that case that does make things simpler
[00:42] <cjwatson> Otherwise you have to hack about with "USE_UDEBS_FROM_EXTRA ?= quantal-updates" or something
[00:42] <infinity> Yeah.  We'll end up making that the default (well, s/updates/proposed/) in devel releases soon enough anyway.
[00:43] <infinity> But not today.
[00:44] <infinity> cjwatson: So, cute side-effect of doing a development in proposed and then moving things in batches.  The publisher sure is fast when it only has to touch leaf pockets.
[00:44] <infinity> (I saw it finish around :15, and thought it had wrapped around, until I realised it was just that nothing had been published to -release in that round)
[00:44] <cjwatson> Hah, yeah
[00:59] <skaet> hmm... just checked crontab and it was still on,  ... fixed it now to be commented out.
[01:00] <cjwatson> No, it was fine.
[01:01] <cjwatson> It doesn't need to be changed in bzr.
[01:01] <cjwatson> It was commented out in the live version.
[01:01] <skaet> it wasn't comment out in live version - just checked, and then did it.
[01:01] <cjwatson> Yes it was.
[01:02] <skaet> *blink*
[01:02] <infinity> skaet: The actual crontab was.  etc/crontab doesn't mean anything.
[01:02] <cjwatson> Youo changed cetc/crontab, which isn't the lilve version.  The live version is printed by 'crontab -l'.
[01:02] <infinity> (Except as a reference for what should be in crontab -l)
[01:02] <cjwatson> (Sorry, lag)
[01:02] <cjwatson> I checked earlier for something else.
[01:03] <skaet> infinity, cjwatson,  crontab -l showed that it wasn't commented.   I did crontab -e and added comments to quantal bits.
[01:03]  * skaet figures something weird is going on.
[01:03] <cjwatson> I'm sorry, but you must have checked wrongly; I checked crontab -l literally 30 minutes ago.
[01:04] <highvoltage> hi skaet
[01:04] <cjwatson> (When I was doing PROPOSED=1 for precise builds)
[01:05] <cjwatson> Well, maybe more like two hours ago, looking at it
[01:06] <cjwatson> Anyway, whatever.  It's commented out everywhere it can plausibly be commented out now ;-)
[01:06] <skaet> cjwatson, as long as its commented now, that's the main thing.
[01:13] <skaet> highvoltage,  up late?
[01:17] <highvoltage> skaet: well it's 21:17 here :)
[01:18] <highvoltage> skaet: I was just wondering... as release manager, do you have the super powers to just create 2 weeks and insert it right here?
[01:18] <highvoltage> skaet: like, today is the 26th of July, then there's a magic two weeks to do stuff in, and then it's 27th June?
[01:19] <skaet> highvoltage,  :)  ok,  had you pegged in wrong time zone.   sorry.   and no I don't have the ability to create a time bubble and add it to the schedule (I wish!)
[01:19] <skaet> :)
[01:20] <highvoltage> aw :)
[01:20] <cjwatson> Actually I'm very sorry, you're quite right
[01:20] <cjwatson> I just looked back through my screen history and I was reading a diff backwards - it was indeed only commented in etc/crontab, not the live version
[01:21] <cjwatson> skaet: So my apologies, I should have double-checked first before saying you were wrong
[01:21] <skaet> cjwatson, no worries.   Thanks.
[01:21] <cjwatson> (And my Internet went down at just the time I was trying to say that; obviously cursed)
[01:27] <cjwatson> Would anyone care if I renamed some of the *.py scripts in ubuntu-archive-tools to names without *.py?
[01:27] <cjwatson> I'll be careful about backreferences from the wiki and other scripts and suchlike, of course
[01:27] <cjwatson> And I'll probably reluctantly leave edit_acl.py alone because other folks are used to it
[01:29] <infinity> Kicking off preinstalled and live.  alternates waiting on d-i to be done building.
[01:30] <infinity> cjwatson: Please ditch all the .pys, please and thankyou.
[01:30] <cjwatson> s'what I thought.
[01:30] <infinity> cjwatson: And if edit_acl.py has become an interface people script to, symlink it? :P
[01:30] <infinity> (Though that breaks adding a space after tab completion..)
[01:31] <cjwatson> Thought about it but don't really want to clutter the directory further
[01:31] <infinity> cjwatson: Oh, before I start the desktop/DVD run (oh hi, cron, still having one in the pipe...)
[01:32] <infinity> cjwatson: Do we still have any hybrids (ie: do I need to wait for d-i before I do those), or are they all live-only now?
[01:32] <skaet> infinity, yeah.
[01:32] <skaet> infinity,  was going to do the image kicking, but if you've got it covered,  thanks.
[01:32] <cjwatson> I think they're all one or the other, but I also think that desktop images actually pick up their kernel from the d-i output still
[01:32] <cjwatson> So it's best to wait
[01:33] <skaet> infinity,  when I was cross checking https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/initramfs-tools/0.103ubuntu0.1 - looks like no powerpc - expected?
[01:33] <infinity> And am I blind, or is ubuntustudio not in the magical pipe?
[01:33] <cjwatson> powerpc got a bit clogged earlier due to gcc-snapshot
[01:33] <infinity> Yeah, I killed that snapshot build. :/
[01:33] <skaet> infinity,  it needs to be added.
[01:34] <infinity> skaet: No, not entirely expected, scored it up.
[01:34] <skaet> it wasn't in A1,  so guess it got missed in the cross check earlier.
[01:34] <skaet> s/it/ubuntu studio/
[01:34] <cjwatson> Actually, screw it, I will rename edit_acl.py (to edit-acl) and symlink.  I'm sure people will get used to it.
[01:35] <infinity> cjwatson: I'm used to it already.
[01:38] <skaet> infinity,  save the logs with start and end timings for me please,  and paste bin the info.
[01:38] <infinity> skaet: Sure.
[01:38] <skaet> Thanks! :)
[01:38] <infinity> cjwatson: Oh, hrm.  When you disabled powerpc all over, was that because royal was down, or broken somehow?
[01:39]  * infinity just realised that it's still disabled, and royal seems up.
[01:39] <cjwatson> It was down.
[01:39] <infinity> Kay.  Looks alive now.
[01:39] <infinity> Will revert that commit.
[01:39] <cjwatson> I mean, it was also just hanging, but IS told me it would be down until it was recovered.
[01:39] <cjwatson> Sounds sensible, thanks.  We can put it back if it hangs again.
[01:40] <infinity> Well, maybe I'll do a quick test with core first, if there's a danger of it being sad.
[01:40] <cjwatson> Worth checking.
[01:42] <infinity> Except that powerpc doesn't normally build core.  Whatever.  It gets one today.
[01:42] <infinity> (I still thikn it should be added anyway)
[01:49] <skaet> infinity,  have added ubuntustudio to the pad,  please cross check and fix if needed. ;)
[02:40] <micahg> I need unity-2d in the same publisher run or before the other 3 ^^^
[02:44] <micahg> RAOF: can you let these out ^^
[02:47] <RAOF> micahg: Sure. Is that a source+binary sync, or just a source sync; should I accept unity-2d first and wait for it to publish?
[02:48] <infinity> RAOF: All together.
[02:48] <infinity> RAOF: So, start at :04 ;)
[02:48] <infinity> (or do it all right now)
[02:49] <RAOF> Or let you flick the switch, as you're a real AA? :)
[02:49] <infinity> RAOF: And they're source+binaries.
[02:49] <infinity> Sure.
[02:49] <RAOF> (And knows things like when the publisher actually runs and such)
[02:50] <infinity> Oh, it's just accepting syncs, you can do that fairly atomicly. :P
[02:51] <infinity> micahg: ^-- Should hitch a ride on a 4:03 train our of London.
[02:51] <infinity> s/our/out/
[02:59] <cjwatson> Hmm, ubiquity failed autopkgtest
[02:59] <micahg> infinity: much thanks
[03:00] <micahg> my notifications failed apparently
[03:10] <infinity> cjwatson: And in code that was recently changed, no less.
[03:10] <infinity> cjwatson: (Is it wrong to be shocked by a testsuite that appears to actually trip on introduced bugs?)
[03:17] <cjwatson> Mm, not changed since 2.11.5 though
[03:18] <cjwatson> I'm suspicious, doesn't seem to correspond to an obvious code bug; will need to reproduce locally I guess, or hope somebody else does it first :)
[03:31] <skaet> infinity,  Hmm,  looks like the powerpc builds for core & ubuntu are failing.  "The following packages have unmet dependencies: evolution-data-server : Breaks: libebook-1.2-12 (< 3.4) but 3.2.3-0ubuntu7 is to be installed. "
[03:33] <infinity> core wouldn't fail that way.
[03:33] <infinity> (core failed earlier on initramfs-tools but was fine later)
[03:33] <infinity> But if e-d-s is out of date on PPC, lame.
[03:34] <infinity> It shouldn't be..
[03:34] <jbicha> well, thunderbird (thunderbird-gnome-support) hasn't built in a while on PPC
[03:34] <infinity> jbicha: Oh, right.  Yeah.
[03:34] <jbicha> but armel has that same problem
[03:34] <infinity> So, any desktop that includes tbird will be toast.
[03:34] <infinity> jbicha: We don't build armel images.
[03:35] <jbicha> oh
[03:35] <infinity> skaet: Yeah, known issue, not going to worry about it.
[03:35] <skaet> infinity,  ok.
[03:35] <skaet> release note time.
[03:35] <micahg> hrm, I'll talk to chrisccoulson about thunderbird, I thought we got a patch from BenC
[03:35] <infinity> If we have a product that doesn't ship thunderbird, and does build PPC, that one will work. :P
[03:36] <infinity> micahg: Yeah, I'm looking for the round tuits to fix armel.
[03:36] <infinity> micahg: PPC looked more involved, though.  So, if Ben found the time, yay.
[03:36] <micahg> jbicha: tell upstream to make their libraries properly co-installable :P
[03:37] <skaet> infinity,  have the buildlive's  started off?  not spotting them in ps aux, but there seems to be a fair bit of stuff in flight, so may be missing them.
[03:37] <infinity> skaet: It's all running.
[03:37] <skaet> infinity,  coolio.    And stuff works.  And then I see, in the next release. "This isn't ported to your platform, lolz."
[03:40] <infinity> Like, really?  What?
[03:40] <micahg> infinity: well, it wasn't properly fixed until 15 IIRC
[03:40] <jbicha> micahg: http://packages.qa.debian.org/e/evolution-data-server/news/20120619T171733Z.html
[03:40] <jbicha> I don't understand their reasoning
[03:41] <infinity> micahg: AIUI, the e-d-s and libe* problem is that the libraries need to talk to the server, and the server can only exist in one version.
[03:41] <skaet> infinity, yeah, but since armhf is buildlive'ing now it wasn't conclusive.  ps aux | grep BuildLiveCD
[03:41] <micahg> infinity: right, well, that can go back to what we were talking about in -devel before...
[03:41] <infinity> micahg: So, while one could make the libraries coinstallable (they're properly SOVERed and all), there's no point, cause either the old or new would be broken.
[03:42] <micahg> infinity: they don't have to break their client -> server interface every release
[03:42] <infinity> micahg: But they have so much fun doing it.
[03:43] <skaet> however, if you say you've started it,  that's conclusive.  :)
[03:43] <micahg> as much fun as webkitgtk has revving glib deps
[03:43] <infinity> micahg: Besides, this is from the people who brought you such stellar thinking as "hey, I bet copying the Outlook UI would be a really efficient way to not have users".
[03:43] <infinity> micahg: And they were right.
[03:44] <infinity> (Then again, Thunderbird's UI is a copy of the Exchange4/5 client, pre-Outlook, but hey, that one wasn't cluttered unusable mess...)
[03:44] <infinity> s/wasn't/wasn't a/
[04:12] <skaet> ok,  will clean up the specifics (20120627 vs 20120627.1) tomorrow on the upgrades, but they're on the tracker now at least
[04:14] <skaet> infinity,  I can't think of anything else to double check, and since you've got the images a going,  I'll head to zzz now.   Thanks for your help this evening.
[04:14]  * skaet --> zzz
[04:49] <jbicha> infinity: do you want to promote libgxps now? I've uploaded a new evince that depends on it
[04:58] <micahg> jbicha: robert_ancell just blew away your upload
[05:00] <jbicha> oh, that's pretty cool
[05:02] <micahg> jbicha: either you didn't push before upload or he overwrote it in bzr
[05:16] <jbicha> the first, but it should be better now
[05:21] <infinity> jbicha: Will do.
[07:42] <jibel> wubi images have not been rebuilt to include the new kernel ?
[07:42]  * Daviey checks in
[09:20] <Riddell> could I get some more recent kubuntu arm images spun up?
[09:28] <ogra_> Riddell, we switched ubuntu to live images, do you want live instead of preinstalled as well ?
[09:30] <Riddell> ogra_: hum interesting
[09:30] <Riddell> ogra_: why the change?
[09:30] <ogra_> Riddell, to default to USB disk installs
[09:31] <Riddell> ogra_: isn't that what it always was?
[09:31] <ogra_> the preinstalled images, while awesome in the install process (unlkess you run into HW probs like you did) are simply having a horrid I/O
[09:31] <ogra_> they dont really reflect the potential of an ubuntu desktop on the panda
[09:32] <Riddell> ogra_: so what's the difference to the user?  you have to run a ubiquity install now?
[09:33] <ogra_> Riddell, right, and it defaults to install to a USB disk
[09:33] <ogra_> (you still need the SD as "bootfloppy", but it boots and runs a lot faster due to the better I/O on USB)
[09:34] <Riddell> interesting
[09:35] <Riddell> ogra_: well yes I think we want that for kubuntu too
[09:35] <Riddell> any idea how we go about it?
[09:36] <ogra_> Riddell, changing etc/default-arches in debian-cd on nusakan should suffice
[09:37] <Riddell> mm, a machine I don't have access to
[09:37] <ogra_> you are in cdimage, no ?
[09:38] <Riddell> no
[09:38] <ogra_> oh, i thought you were
[09:41] <Riddell> ogra_: can you do it?
[09:42] <ogra_> Riddell, yes, looking into it
[09:49] <Daviey> cjwatson: slangasek seems to be the contact for Ubuntu Core.. Do you know who is tasked to work on it?
[09:49] <cjwatson> Daviey: Generally infinity
[09:50] <cjwatson> Daviey: But Ubuntu Core is basically just a tarball of the base system; it requires almost no specific work of its own
[09:50] <Daviey> cjwatson: Gah, it's been broken for the last week.
[09:50] <cjwatson> ?
[09:50] <cjwatson> Ref?
[09:50] <Daviey> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Quantal/view/ISO%20Testing%20Dashboard/job/quantal-core-armhf/17/console
[09:51] <cjwatson> So that looks like a jenkins bug to me; I wonder where I can find the script it's running
[09:51] <cjwatson> W: Failed to fetch http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/quantal/Release  Unable to find expected entry 'main/binary---add-architecture'/Packages' in Release file (Wrong sources.list entry or malformed file)
[09:51] <cjwatson> suspicious
[09:51] <cjwatson> I bet it needs updating for new dpkg world
[09:51] <Daviey> Ah.. might be https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017862
[09:51] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1017862 in lxc "Migrate to dpkg --add-architecture to track foreign architecture in template lxc-ubuntu" [Undecided,Fix committed]
[09:52] <Daviey> cjwatson: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server-iso-testing-dev/+junk/ubuntu-core/changes
[09:53] <Daviey> jibel: You are tracking this issue, i assume?  Based on your last commit?
[09:54] <Daviey> jibel: if so, can you retest based on your change being after the last failed job?
[09:54] <cjwatson> Seems like a possibility, at least
[09:54] <jibel> Daviey, it was introduced by the change in dpkg 1.16.2 and the new option --add-architecture
[09:55] <jibel> I fixed it, but the result is not published obviously
[09:57] <Daviey> jibel: can you not make jenkins retest it?
[09:57] <ogra_> cjwatson, a quick review ? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1062293/ (switching kubuntu to live)
[09:58] <Daviey> jibel: It would be good to check your change gives a green light, before investigating why we don't have a newer core image.
[09:58] <jibel> Daviey, the test ran and is green but for some reason, it doesn't publish results to the public instance. I retried a publication, it says it's ok but the results are still not there
[09:58] <jibel> Daviey, I must wait for the US to wake up, I don't have access to the public jenkins
[09:58] <Daviey> jibel: how odd.. ok, if it's green on the backend jenkins, i am happy ;)
[09:58] <Daviey> thanks jibel
[10:01] <jibel> Daviey, https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Quantal/view/ISO%20Testing%20Dashboard/job/quantal-core-armhf_default/
[10:03] <Daviey> jibel: ah, someone appended _default ?
[10:03] <Daviey> jibel: Do you have ACL to hide the old one, the red dot will cause confusion
[10:04] <cjwatson> ogra_: please sort architectures, and we need to keep the old kubuntu line as "maverick-precise"
[10:04] <jibel> Daviey, yes, I filed an RT and asked for removal
[10:04] <ogra_> oops, sorting, sorry
[10:04] <cjwatson> ogra_: Otherwise that's OK
[10:04] <cjwatson> Daviey: that seems kind of backwards, we need a current image to feed into jenkins surely?
[10:05] <Daviey> cjwatson: Yes.. we seemed to think it was a testing issue, rather than an image issue, right?
[10:05] <cjwatson> Anyhow, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/daily/current/ all looks up to date to me
[10:05] <cjwatson> Right, I was just confused by:  10:58 <Daviey> jibel: It would be good to check your change gives a green light, before investigating why we don't have a newer core image.
[10:05] <Daviey> Which means, that re-testing the old image, should make it turn greem
[10:05] <Daviey> green*
[10:05] <Daviey> seems reasonable to re-test the old image to validate that theory
[10:06] <Daviey> cjwatson: And the reason there wasn't a newer image in jenkins, is because ()just discovered) that _default was appended to the name
[10:06] <cjwatson> *shrug* If you like.  Foundations isn't terribly bothered about any of this on the grounds that if anything else at all works then Ubuntu Core clearly works.
[10:06] <Daviey> so it caused a new entry in jenkins.
[10:07] <cjwatson> The jenkins stuff in question seems to be exercising multiarch more than specifically core, which is a good thing to do
[10:07] <cjwatson> old image> how old?
[10:08] <Daviey> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Quantal/view/ISO%20Testing%20Dashboard/job/quantal-core-armhf/ .. renamed to https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Quantal/view/ISO%20Testing%20Dashboard/job/quantal-core-armhf_default/?
[10:08] <Daviey> And that tested the most current image on cdimage.
[10:10] <ogra_> Riddell, done ...
[10:10] <cjwatson> I guess I don't understand why to retest - isn't quantal-core-armhf_default a current test, then?
[10:10] <Riddell> ogra_: thanks!
[10:10] <ogra_> someone should trigger a build for kubuntu now :)
[10:10] <ogra_> (arm only livbe that is)
[10:10] <ogra_> *live
[10:10] <Riddell> yes please
[10:11] <ogra_> (someone from the release team if possible :) )
[10:12] <Daviey> cjwatson: I didn't know _default was the new test.. So i saw failure on the original.. Now the world is good, pending jibel's RT to get the orginal test noise removed.
[10:12] <cjwatson> Daviey: righto, cool
[10:12] <cjwatson> ogra_: Daviey's doing releng this release so ideally him.  It'll have to wait for the current precise build to finish though
[10:13] <Daviey> sure
[10:13] <ogra_> oh, there is an arm build going on ?
[10:13] <ogra_> (note thats an arm only build kubuntu needs)
[10:13] <cjwatson> precise builds are still cronned
[10:13] <ogra_> ah, k
[10:13] <Daviey> cjwatson: it's not locksafe?
[10:14] <cjwatson> it is, but it will queue
[10:14] <Daviey> right
[10:14] <Daviey> So i won't cause damage if i trigger it now?
[10:14] <cjwatson> you only get one livefs build per backend builder at any given time
[10:14] <cjwatson> no
[10:14] <Daviey> groovy.
[10:14] <cjwatson> use ARCHES= to build only for armhf+whatever
[10:15] <Daviey> ogra_: Can you justify on http://pad.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-release please?
[10:17] <ogra_> Daviey, does that suffice ?
[10:19] <Daviey> ogra_: thanks
[10:40] <xnox> is mythbuntu participating in alpha2?
[10:53]  * ogra_ wonders why there are no armhf+mx5 images
[10:54] <ogra_> infinity, did you miss armhf+mx5 in your ARCHES list when firing off the build ?
[10:54] <ogra_> i dont see a live image for it
[10:55] <ogra_> hmm, and somehow the old preinstalleds arent removed
[10:55] <ogra_> there are images from the 24th for omap and omap4 in daily-preinstalled
[11:07] <apw> i assume we know that the slide show still says 12.04LTS and we don't care ?
[11:08] <ogra_> it also still shows a pangolin at the wallpaper
[11:09] <cjwatson> apw: There isn't a specific bug that I can find, but it generally takes a while to be updated for a new release and is known.
[11:10] <apw> cjwatson, we so should make fake ones for the A1/A2s with pictures contributed "Hello Mum" etc
[11:10] <ogra_> we had a dancing circle of developers once
[11:10] <ogra_> people didnt like it
[11:11] <apw> heh ..
[11:11] <xnox> apw: well you can tweet fun crap and it will show up in the feed =) e.g. yesterday it was still looping that I joined core-dev team ;-)
[11:12] <xnox> apw: I thought artwork is dropped at the UI freeze
[11:12] <ogra_> heh, is it really recent ?
[11:12] <ogra_> i.e. could you send messages to yourself while waiting ?
[11:12] <apw> xnox, still is
[11:12] <xnox> ogra_: it does pull it off the internet so yeah it should be live ;-)
[11:12] <ogra_> heh, cool
[11:13] <cjwatson> ogra_: That was an April Fool wasn't it?
[11:13] <ogra_> now i'm finally considering a twitter account ...
[11:13] <cjwatson> I vaguely remember the ruckus
[11:13] <ogra_> finally a proper usecase !
[11:13] <ogra_> cjwatson, yeah, with elmo sabdfl and mdz iirc
[11:13] <xnox> ogra_: "spending time on twitter for cd testing"
[11:13] <ogra_> heh
[11:13] <cjwatson> God, that was like 2005
[11:14] <ogra_> yeah, when we were young and innocent :)
[11:14] <cjwatson> Young, anyway
[11:14] <ogra_> haha
[11:15] <Daviey> xnox: mythbuntu is not doing Quantal.. it's being built, but not released
[11:15] <xnox> interesting
[11:16] <apw> Daviey, for A2 or ever
[11:16] <Daviey> apw: Ever
[11:16] <xnox> given that CD are >700MB should we start thinking about bug 947546
[11:16] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 947546 in usb-creator "booting from usb-creator live usb image fails self-test boot option" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/947546
[11:16] <cjwatson> Mythbuntu has gone to LTS-only
[11:16] <Daviey> More effort is being put into precise overlay PPA's.
[11:16] <Daviey> Not that i can really comment, i don't exactly pull my weight in that project anymore.
[11:17] <xnox> what package needs teaching self-test off usb-stick?
[11:18] <cjwatson> Um, not sure where that is.  Somewhere between usb-creator and lp:~ubuntu-cdimage/debian-cd/ubuntu probably
[11:19] <cjwatson> The self-test option is presumably in usb-creator
[11:20] <apw> man ... s/w center is 2.5m of my install
[12:46] <Riddell> skaet: what was that bug page you showed at the release team meeting last week?
[12:47] <skaet> Riddell, do you mean: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html?
[12:48] <skaet> minutes can be found on the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-06-22 page.
[12:49] <Riddell> skaet: aye that's the one, how does a bug end up on there?
[12:49] <skaet> Riddell, when its targetted to the quantal series, it shows up there.
[12:49] <Riddell> ah hah
[12:50] <hyperair> how does the software centre handle arch:all packages that depend upon an arch:i386 package on architectures that don't support i386?
[12:51] <hyperair> oops, wrong channel
[12:51] <skaet> Riddell, those without access to accepting series, should use the "rls-q-incoming" tag to flag to the team's attention.
[12:51] <ogra_> could someone fix the tracker to not point to preinstaleld arm images anymore ?
[12:52] <ogra_> *preinstalled
[12:53] <jibel> skaet, we need a new product on the tracker to track arm live
[12:53] <skaet> jibel,  so it appears.
[12:53] <skaet> ogra_ path to new images?
[12:54]  * skaet figures ogra_ gets to write a nice long paragraph in the Technical Overview on this ;)
[12:54] <ogra_> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20120627/quantal-desktop-armhf+omap.img
[12:54] <ogra_> etc
[12:54] <ogra_> for omap, omap4 and mx5 please
[12:54] <ogra_> ac100 stays preinstalled
[12:54] <ogra_> skaet, yeah, planning to, still busy fiddling with the tests atm :)
[12:55] <skaet> :)
[12:55] <ogra_> note that this is currently only for desktop, server stays as is until the squashfs stuff is in x86 server
[13:02] <skaet> ogra_ do you have the new test cases that need to go along with the arm live images?
[13:03] <ogra_> nope
[13:03] <ogra_> there are no arm specific tests to do
[13:03] <ogra_> thats the purpose of switching to live image
[13:03] <ogra_> (or one of them)
[13:03] <ogra_> all general putrpose tests we do on x86 apply now
[13:04] <ogra_> *purpose
[13:05] <pgraner> skaet, ogra_:  I'll migrate the x86 tests over to arm and validate them this AM
[13:05] <ogra_> pgraner, awesome !
[13:05]  * pgraner digs out panda boards
[13:06] <ogra_> note that there is a kernel issue ... works atm only on selected monitors
[13:06] <ogra_> (now dont ask which ones :P ppsati seems the only person with fully working output)
[13:06] <pgraner> ogra_, oh sweet
[13:07] <ogra_> bug 1010009 has some info
[13:07] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1010009 in linux-ti-omap4 "omapdss fails to properly detect some monitors in quantal" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1010009
[13:07] <pgraner> ogra_, I've got 4 different brands/makes of hdmi monitors so hopefully one will work
[13:07] <ogra_> (and workarounds that work for me but i.e. not for apw)
[13:10] <apw> ogra_, remember i am testing the _wrong_ image cause the iso tracker tells you to test the wrong image, i'll repro with the right one
[13:10] <apw> (once it has downloaded, yawn)
[13:10] <ogra_> apw, i dont think the kernel changed between the two
[13:11] <apw> ogra_, no i am sure the testing will end up with the same result, but its not valid to infer it sadly
[13:11] <ogra_> right, just test it
[13:12] <apw> ETA 3:04
[13:32]  * stgraber grabs Edubuntu
[13:33]  * highvoltage too
[13:34] <skaet> Daviey,  can you update the iso tracker to remove those server images you don't want tested please.
[13:36] <Riddell> alternate images are broken for me, they just show a blank screen after "loading additional components"
[13:38] <cjwatson> Riddell: I'll have a look once they've downloaded
[13:38] <cjwatson> Riddell: Kubuntu or Ubuntu?
[13:38] <Riddell> cjwatson: both
[13:39] <cjwatson> OK, I'll use Ubuntu since that'll be quicker for me to update
[13:42] <highvoltage> stgraber: do we want an ARM alpha2 or are we going to keep that for alpha3?
[13:44] <stgraber> highvoltage: no arm for a2, as I said, I don't want people to think we'll release for omap4
[13:44] <highvoltage> ok
[13:45] <Daviey> skaet: hmm, well.. Ubuntu Server amd64+mac .. has never been a release deliverable, but has always been there.
[13:45] <Daviey> Should that go?
[13:45] <skaet> Daviey,  if there isn't someone prepared to test it, yes
[13:46] <Daviey> skaet: is having an empty entry worse than a disabled target?
[13:46] <Daviey> I mean, if someone happens to test it, would be nice to have somewhere to capture it?
[13:47] <skaet> Daviey,  "if someone" is not a plan.   Was it tested on any of the dailies or prior images?
[13:49] <Daviey> skaet: I'm just stating that Canonical Server team will not be testing them, but i don't know what opportunistic testers will do.
[13:50] <skaet> balloons, ^ is there anyone planning on testing the Ubuntu Server amd64+mac images that you're aware of?
[13:50] <Daviey> skaet: James Page put out a call for testing this morning.. https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2012-June/006340.html
[13:52] <Daviey> ogra_: Preinstalled armhf+ac100 .. is correct.. right?
[13:52] <ogra_> Daviey, yep
[13:53] <ogra_> looks perfect apart from missing mx5
[13:54] <Daviey> ogra_: i've not got a cmd prompt back yet.. so it is probably still on the way
[13:54] <ogra_> yep
[13:55] <ogra_> its not a big loss to not have it though
[13:55] <ogra_> we only have two people in the company with that HW and i dont know any community testers
[14:04] <cjwatson> Riddell: Can't reproduce with Ubuntu alternate i386
[14:04] <Riddell> drat
[14:05] <cjwatson> Riddell: Was your test on i386?
[14:05] <cjwatson> Riddell: And can you switch to tty4 and have a look at syslog there?
[14:05] <cjwatson> (or tty2 for a shell)
[14:06] <Riddell> yep
[14:08] <cjwatson> Owt interesting?
[14:10] <highvoltage> is there a bug open for the ubiquity radio boxes that look like tickboxes?
[14:10] <highvoltage> (I'm adding it to the == Boot, installation and post-install == section)
[14:13] <cjwatson> It's not ubiquity-specific; it came up on #-devel a few days ago
[14:13] <cjwatson> I believe mpt said it'd take a couple of weeks to sort out
[14:20] <stgraber> highvoltage: IIRC you're actually the one who started that discussion in #-devel a few days ago ;) mpt said it was a gtk3 bug/feature that broke it
[14:20] <xnox> upstream made certain theming options private, which broke the theme. the workaround was applied to not use now hidden properties, but the real fix of bringing the theme back to normal is work in progress
[14:21] <highvoltage> stgraber: yeah I remember, I understood that it was a css/gtk bug that only affects ubiquity... (at least as far as we can typically see in Ubuntu), but I'll test it in apps in an installed system as well on todays image
[14:22] <highvoltage> stgraber: I just think it's worth mentioning that it's a bug, before people get enraged at a design team :)
[14:28] <ogra_> pgraner, thnaks for the test cases on omap4, can we drop "live session" from the list ? we boot with only-ubiquity on the cmdline on these images so we go stright into the installer
[14:29] <ogra_> geez, need to work on my typing today
[14:29] <pgraner> ogra_, sure, I'm woking my way thru them now, I have to add bits and links on "how to boot"
[14:35] <Riddell> cjwatson: tty4 says "ext3-fs (sda1) error: couldn't mount because of unsupported optional features (240)" followed by "ext4-fs (sda1): mounted filesystem with ordered data mode"
[14:35] <Riddell> otherwise nothing unusual
[14:37] <cjwatson> Doesn't seem related, unless you're booting off ext3/4
[14:38] <cjwatson> (the installer that is)
[14:43] <pgraner> ogra_, ok, no working monitors... I'm dead in the water atm
[14:43] <ogra_> did you try one of the workarounds i mentioned on the bug ?
[14:44] <balloons> skaet, amd64+mac server hmm.. no, not to my knowledge. That's a hard one to get, since mac testing is already so notorious
[14:44] <balloons> I'll mention it
[14:45] <Daviey> balloons: did you see the mail from James you were CC'd on.
[14:45] <balloons> Daviey, yes I did
[14:45] <Daviey> balloons: amd64+mac isn't a deliverable image.. but i'm hesitant to suggest it's removed from the tracker, as it's perfectly valid for people to want to test it and report failure.
[14:46] <skaet> balloons, Daviey:    if no test results (or indications someone wants to test it),  I'll prune it from the list at 2100
[14:46] <skaet> UTC
[14:46] <balloons> Daviey, ahh.. It was a curveball to see it there
[14:46] <Daviey> The benefit to removing it is that it creates 'less noise'.. and gives the ability to brag higher report coverage if it's removed.
[14:46] <balloons> right, amd64 is the ONLY server image
[14:46]  * skaet is quite willing to remove it earlier
[14:47] <Riddell> cjwatson: install proceeding fine on my other machine
[14:47] <Daviey> skaet: why so keen to remove it?
[14:47] <Daviey> Why hasn't this been an issue in prior releases?
[14:48] <infinity> ogra_: I didn't use ARCHES when building, so mx5 should have been included.
[14:48] <infinity> ogra_: ubuntu-armhf-mx5 on celbalrai.buildd finished at 2012-06-27 04:48:35 (success)
[14:48] <skaet> Daviey, this cycle the push is to reduce the images down to those most useful.   Trying to get focus of people willing to help test on the ones that will be most beneficial from bigger picture, and find the gaps that are important.
[14:49] <ogra_> infinity, strange, i dont see it in daily-live
[14:51] <infinity> ogra_: Hrm.  Curious.
[14:51] <infinity> ogra_: Not awake enough yet to be REALLY curious.
[14:51] <ogra_> the others are there
[14:51] <ogra_> well, no hurry i guess
[14:51] <ogra_> its just mx5
[14:52]  * ogra_ is more eager to get the omaps working
[14:52] <balloons> skaet, Daviey yes I agree.. It's hard to ask someone to test something we have no plans on using
[14:53] <ogra_> omap3 gives me a hard time atm
[14:53] <ogra_> squashfs errors all over the place
[14:53]  * ogra_ tries another SD
[14:56] <infinity> ogra_: I'd help test, but I think booting a live session on my beagle will end in someone getting hurt.
[14:57]  * infinity grumbles about 256M of RAM.
[14:57] <ogra_> heh, well, i'm trying my other microSD now
[14:57] <ogra_> get an XM !
[14:57] <infinity> Those cost money!
[14:57] <infinity> Would cut into my precious beer and shawarma budget.
[14:58] <ogra_> heh
[14:58] <ogra_> ask your manager !
[14:58] <infinity> He's the one who gave me the crappy beagle. ;)
[15:03] <ogra_> heh
[15:05] <smoser> hi.. stgraber or anyone able to populate iso.qa.ubuntu.co tracker for alpha-2 cloud images ?
[15:05] <smoser> from https://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/quantal/20120627/
[15:05] <smoser> https://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/quantal/20120627/published-ec2-daily.txt
[15:06] <stgraber> smoser: I can do that
[15:06] <stgraber> thanks for linking the .txt, I usually have to spend a few extra seconds finding it ;)
[15:07] <stgraber> running
[15:26] <Riddell> who's on duty now?  Daviey? infinity?
[15:26] <Riddell> two issues
[15:26] <Riddell> [8]...https://launchpad.net/bugs/1018448 meta-kde-telepathy not installing needs kubuntu alternates respun
[15:26] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1018448 in meta-kde-telepathy "0.4.0ubuntu2 can not install" [Undecided,Fix released]
[15:26] <Riddell> [9] arm kubuntu live not existing, alternates made instead?
[15:30] <skaet> Daviey, ^
[15:31]  * ogra_ thinks these builds are still running
[15:31] <ogra_> Daviey gave me his cmdline and apparently that starts with an alternated buiold fo all arm images, sorry, i only saw that now
[15:32] <ogra_> *alternate
[15:32] <ogra_> ARCHES='armhf+ac100 armhf+mx5 armhf+omap armhf+omap4' for-project kubuntu cron.daily; ARCHES='armhf+ac100 armhf+mx5 armhf+omap armhf+omap4' buildlive kubuntu daily-live && ARCHES='armhf+ac100 armhf+mx5 armhf+omap armhf+omap4' for-project kubuntu cron.daily-live
[15:32] <Riddell> mm yeah that could explain it
[15:32] <ogra_> that should only have been: ARCHES='armhf+omap armhf+omap4' buildlive kubuntu daily-live && ARCHES='armhf+omap armhf+omap4'  for-project kubuntu cron.daily-live
[15:33] <ogra_> so it might take several more hours
[15:33] <ogra_> (one livefs build per subarch, 90min per build)
[15:33] <ogra_> (serialized since we are waiting for buildd HW)
[15:34] <ogra_> (i guess that measn the buildds are busy for another 6h or so)
[15:34] <infinity> Speaking of...
[15:35] <infinity> pgraner: Do you know what happened to that Mandabox that was meant to land in the DC and do magical things for me?
[15:35] <pgraner> infinity, its with elmo
[15:35] <ogra_> tell him to not take it out for shopping all the time then :)
[15:36] <infinity> pgraner: Kay.  Is there a ticket for it that I can hound and/or add notes to?
[15:36] <pgraner> infinity, no he was just supposed to "do it"
[15:36] <pgraner> elmo, sup with the Mandabox?
[15:37] <pgraner> ogra_, live test case removed
[15:37] <ogra_> pgraner, thx !
[15:49] <Daviey> Riddell: hey
[15:49] <Riddell> Daviey: arm images in progress says ogra, but new alternates needed for kubuntu
[15:50] <Daviey> ok
[15:50] <ogra_> well, i was guessing they still build for the next few hours
[15:51] <Daviey> ogra_: it is still in progress, yes
[15:51] <ogra_> right
[15:52] <Daviey> Hmm.. alt should be included as part of that, no?
[15:52] <ogra_> yes, your call did build them before
[15:52] <ogra_> for all arm arches ...
[15:52] <ogra_> not that we support this though
[15:53] <infinity> Daviey: We don't build ARM alternates.
[15:53] <ogra_> infinity, we just did :P
[15:53] <infinity> Daviey: Well, you do, apparently.
[15:53] <Daviey> I like options.
[16:03] <ogra_> sigh, live install on a beagle isnt fun
[16:08] <infinity> ogra_: I think this move to live is probably also the sane time to discuss dropping beagle images and just keeping the d-i netbootish option for omap.
[16:09] <ogra_> yeah, probably
[16:09] <infinity> ogra_: I'd like to do the same for mx5, except that the mx5 kernel is in universe.  And wouldn't have a hope of being in main.
[16:09] <ogra_> currently the omap image is the only one fully working though
[16:09] <infinity> ogra_: Sure, but we'll fix omap4.
[16:10] <ogra_> panda has the display issue, mx5 is nonexisting
[16:10] <infinity> ogra_: I honestly want to cut things down so we only have one ARM desktop image as a shiny tech show-off.
[16:10] <ogra_> and i didnt get around to even remotely think about testing ac100 yet
[16:10] <infinity> ogra_: (Though, two images, since there's no sane way to do d-i on an ac100, but let's just pretend ac100 doesn't factor into this)
[16:10] <ogra_> yeah, though for mx5 you probably want to keep preinstalled
[16:10] <infinity> ogra_: Why?
[16:11] <ogra_> because you cant build d-i
[16:11] <ogra_> or would you want to drop it ?
[16:11] <infinity> ogra_: Oh, sure.  Yeah, I mentioned the "if the kernel wasn't in universe" problem for mx5. :/
[16:11] <ogra_> right, so lets keep ac100 and mx5 preinstalled
[16:11] <infinity> ogra_: It might be time to sort out how to do a d-i-universe build (y'know, before archive reorg fixes all this).
[16:11] <ogra_> mx5 probably just server
[16:12] <ogra_> and omap just d-i
[16:12] <infinity> ogra_: Cause scaling d-i netboot images to N targets is so much saner than doing a desktop image for lots.
[16:12] <ogra_> though i would expect more community images soon
[16:12] <infinity> ogra_: Sure, but I bet most community hacker types would be more than happy with d-i.
[16:12] <ogra_> there are a ton of allwinner A10 devices swamping the market recently
[16:12] <infinity> ogra_: They seem to be in the Debian world.
[16:13] <ogra_> i doubt the edubuntu guys would like a d-i install for the upcoming edubuntu tablet
[16:13] <ogra_> and i think especially comminuty images are rather for endusers than devs
[16:13] <cjwatson> As we discussed the last time this came up, there's nothing aside from policy preventing d-i from building against universe, and either having the ac100 kernel artificially in main or building a d-i ac100 target against universe is better than duplicating the d-i build system
[16:14] <ogra_> s/ac100/mx5/
[16:14] <cjwatson> or s/ac100/mx5/ or whatever
[16:14] <ogra_> :)
[16:15] <infinity> cjwatson: Oh, I suppose given that it's not using the host's sources.list (except to magically determine the mirror to use), we could build universe-depending images easily enough, sure.
[16:15] <infinity> cjwatson: And I think that's probably the way forward for all these unsupported community boards.
[16:15] <infinity> d-i images take very little time, space, or effort to test.
[16:15] <infinity> live desktop images for every weird board don't scale at all.
[16:15] <Riddell> cjwatson: kubuntu problems, the ubiquity "try/install" screen doesn't show up and it just goes straight to a full desktop, also the oem-config tool doesn't run, could this be realated to adding lightdm to the images?
[16:15] <cjwatson> Right, all it needs is for any specialised tools it needs to be in main.
[16:16] <cjwatson> Riddell: No idea I'm afraid
[16:16] <infinity> cjwatson: In the mx5 case, the only thing in universe is the kernel.
[16:16] <cjwatson> Riddell: ubiquity's supposed to use its own display manager
[16:16] <infinity> cjwatson: That will likely be true of any subarch we spin.
[16:17] <cjwatson> Riddell: So I guess check whether ubiquity-dm is there and not broken somehow, maybe /var/log/installer/dm, maybe boot with --verbose to see what init thinks it's doing
[16:18] <ogra_> so omap doesnt look good
[16:18] <ogra_> i would appreciate if someone else could do a test install to rule out my HW
[16:18] <infinity> ogra_: Right, so, in light of the above, I'm picturing: "only omap4" for any actual "images" (server, *-desktop, etc), and d-i for everything else, with the exception of also spinning an ubuntu-preinstalled for ac100, because that's the only sane way we have to install on an ac100.
[16:18] <ogra_> right
[16:19] <infinity> ogra_: What level of "not look good" is it?
[16:19] <ogra_> well, and keep preinstalled as an option for community images
[16:19] <infinity> ogra_: I'd rather not.
[16:19] <ogra_> infinity, with the first three attempts i had constant squashfs errors
[16:20] <infinity> ogra_: Heck, we should be able to do d-i on the ac100 too, someone just needs to figure out a sane way first.
[16:20] <ogra_> after changing to my other microSD these are gone but it dies during copying ... and i get an oops and page allocation failure for ubiquity
[16:20] <ogra_> and i also see kevent drop messages for eth0 in dmesg
[16:20] <infinity> ogra_: Well, squash and paging errors pretty much sound like either bad media or bad hardware.
[16:20] <ogra_> infinity, debian does, but its super user unfriendly
[16:21] <ogra_> infinity, thats the reason i want someone else to test it too
[16:21] <ogra_> but will need an XM
[16:21] <infinity> ogra_: I'm not wildly concerned about user-friendly for community ports.    But community ports tend to be for people who like hacking and fiddling anyway.  If we wanted it to be for the mythical "Aunt Tilly", we'd have to put real QA effort behind it.
[16:22] <ogra_> i will go on caring for ac100
[16:22] <ogra_> and will keep preinstalled
[16:22] <ogra_> *keep them
[16:22] <ogra_> if you feel like also doing a d-i image, feel free, bit for ac100 i wont drop preinstalled
[16:22] <infinity> Sure.  Just saying that we probably don't want to do any new preinstalled things.
[16:23] <Daviey> Riddell: Are these issues things you want to drive to a fix for A2?
[16:23] <ogra_> well, its likely the best for a tablet install
[16:23] <Riddell> Daviey: no we'll release note them
[16:23] <ogra_> or for other predefined HW
[16:23] <Riddell> Daviey: won't be able to fix for A2
[16:23] <ogra_> where you are bound to android partitioning etc
[16:23] <infinity> ogra_: The ac100-style tarball installer may well be the best option for a tablet type thing.  Who knows.  If we ever end up supporting one.
[16:23] <Daviey> Riddell: okay, so the ones coming off the press are close to being signed off for A2?
[16:23] <ogra_> infinity, edubuntu will ... this cycle
[16:24] <Daviey> balloons: Are you tracking anything else which is concerning for A2?
[16:24] <infinity> ogra_: Though d-i would work just fine too.
[16:24] <ogra_> infinity, and i think kubuntu too
[16:24] <ogra_> (given the kubuntu guys work on the kernel for the edubuntu team)
[16:24] <infinity> ogra_: And, in fact, one could duplicate the tarball-installer behaviour exactly (from the end-user perspective) with d-i netboot and a preseed.
[16:24] <ogra_> yep, iirc that was the plan long ago
[16:24] <balloons> Daviey, just messing about with a weird kernel regression.. nothing that would hold or impact alpha 2
[16:25] <ogra_> we just didnt do it ...
[16:25] <infinity> ogra_: Heh.  Yeah.
[16:25] <ogra_> but i dont plan to do any new work on the ac100 bits beyond occasionally uploading a driver or kernel package
[16:25] <infinity> ogra_: Anyhow, longterm versus shortterm and all that.  In the (very) short term, I think we should drop everything but omap4 and ac100 from our manifests and stop killing celbalrai for no good reason.
[16:25] <ogra_> (and changing cmdline options if needded=
[16:25] <Daviey> jamespage: you kicked off a full ec2 test, right?
[16:26] <ogra_> infinity, at least until we get the mandacluster
[16:26] <infinity> ogra_: In fact, I might go edit default-arches after breakfast.
[16:26] <infinity> ogra_: Even with the Mandabox, I'm not sure the QA time is worth it.
[16:26] <ogra_> well, keep omap for A2 ... if its really the only usable image
[16:26] <ogra_> QA only looks at omap4 traditionally
[16:27] <infinity> Yes, but "someone" needs to QA the others.
[16:27] <ogra_> right, since tobin is gone thats usually me
[16:27] <infinity> I did a lot of them for precise release.
[16:27] <infinity> So, yes.  You and I. :P
[16:27] <ogra_> right
[16:29] <Riddell> Daviey: well lots of testing to go yet but yes
[16:29] <Daviey> super.
[16:37] <Riddell> ooh goody just what I wanted
[17:10]  * Daviey goes afk, will be back later.
[17:27] <infinity> ^-- Wrong pocket, rejecting and reuploading.
[17:33] <stgraber> ^ (epoptes) is a new upstream micro release fixing a bunch of bugs and refreshing translations. All the changes are linked to bugs (though one is linked to a dupe of a fixed bug, sorry for the weirdness) but if whoever reviews it feels like we should have an MRE, I'll be happy to discuss it (and likely put my TB hat on).
[17:34] <infinity> stgraber: An MRE isn't required, per se, it's just that without one, we require more rigorous review of the diff.
[17:34] <infinity> stgraber: Is it actually reviewable? ;)
[17:34] <stgraber> infinity: yeah, if you ignore the translations, it's very easy to review
[17:34] <infinity> stgraber: Kay, then I see no reason for an MRE.
[17:35] <infinity> stgraber: Micro-releases aren't de-facto "bad", just when the changeset is so enormous that no one wants to waste their time figuring out WTF it all does (I'm looking at you, Firefox)
[17:35] <infinity> Well, FFox doesn't do "micro" anymore.  At least they've given up the fiction.
[17:36] <infinity> s/Firefox/Libreoffice/ and the above whine stands. :P
[17:37] <utlemming> skaet: ready to release Alpha-2 cloud images whenever your ready
[17:37] <stgraber> ;) yeah, I think firefox/thunderbird/.. have an MRE where the M stands for Major instead of Micro ;)
[17:37] <infinity> stgraber: Ffox/Tbird are more of a "head in the sand" exception.
[17:38] <infinity> stgraber: I wasted months of my life backporting security fixes to mozilla codebases in the earlier days of Ubuntu before we just said "this is ridiculous".
[17:38] <infinity> stgraber: Because half of their security fixes were complete rewrites of subsystems.  So, you'd have to sort out how to represent the whole mess with static functions, or backport the whole rewrite.  And die a little inside each time.
[17:39] <stgraber> ;)
[17:44] <skaet> utlemming, :)  good to know the images are ready, thanks.
[18:00] <Daviey> utlemming: fancy validating http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/222/builds/17913/testcases/499/results before declaring them release ready? :)
[18:03] <utlemming> Daviey: that failure in the test result is consistant with others that we've seen....I'm digging deeper just to be absolutely sure
[18:05] <Daviey> utlemming: Okay, if it's either known, or expected.. can there be a bug or something to reference?
[18:05] <Daviey> Even if the bug ends up being invalid, would be nice to be able track it.
[18:07] <utlemming> Daviey: sure, I'll file the bug now
[18:08] <Daviey> utlemming: thanks :)
[18:17] <pgraner> ogra_, what the mkimage cmd line for the workaround in bug #1010009
[18:17] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1010009 in linux-ti-omap4 "omapdss fails to properly detect some monitors in quantal" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1010009
[18:19] <slangasek> ogra_: hey, so what's the display issue you mentioned on panda?  is that bug #1010009?
[18:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1010009 in linux-ti-omap4 "omapdss fails to properly detect some monitors in quantal" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1010009
[18:19] <pgraner> slangasek, yep thats it
[18:19] <slangasek> ok
[18:20] <ogra_> pgraner, mount SD to /mnt; cp /mnt/boot.scr ~/boot.script; .... drop the binary header from teh first line; make your edits; sudo mkimage -A arm -O linux -T script -n 'Ubuntu Boot Script' -d boot.script /mnt/boot.scr; unmount /mnt
[18:22] <ogra_> (i think we have at least three different wikipages about this though)
[18:22] <slangasek> ogra_, pgraner: I don't grok how this bug makes the omap4 image "unusable" though; surely it's still the correct testing target, even if the graphics come up at the wrong resolution by default?
[18:23] <pgraner> ogra_, should have been in the bug, would really help out the testers
[18:23] <ogra_> slangasek, it comes up with a non working framebuffer by default (black screen) and the workaround doesnt seem to work for everyone
[18:23] <pgraner> slangasek, graphics won't come up unless you a) hack boot.scr or 2) boot wait for X to come up and hope it likes you monitor
[18:23] <slangasek> ah
[18:23] <ogra_> well, X was just a milestone i picked :)
[18:24] <slangasek> right, ok - that's much worse than what I gleaned from the bug description, sorry
[18:24] <ogra_> if you are through most of the boot process i would say
[18:24] <balloons> Is missing fonts in the installer a known issue? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1018524
[18:24] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1018524 in ubiquity "Ubiquity installer doesn't properly display languages" [Undecided,New]
[18:24] <ogra_> slangasek, well, beyond that the image is golden, its just that small wart :P
[18:25] <ogra_> pgraner, yes, there wasnt much interaction on that bug at all, i was actually expecting us to have a completely new kernel from linaro for A2, else i would have worked more on it
[18:26] <jibel> balloons, yes it is
[18:26] <balloons> jibel, thanks.. feel free to dupe my bug :-)
[18:26] <jibel> balloons, bug 1015483
[18:26] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1015483 in ubiquity "ubiquity-dm: 2 language names wrongly displayed (missing font?)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1015483
[18:26] <pgraner> ogra_, what version of panda board are you working on?
[18:27] <ogra_> pgraner, i have an ES and an older one, currently using the ES
[18:28] <ogra_> (the other one is busy with testbuilds)
[18:29] <ogra_> pgraner, added the above instructions to the bug
[18:30] <pgraner> ogra_, the workaround is not working on two of my 4 monitors
[18:30] <ogra_> well, i dont know what to say, it works on three of my monitors
[18:31] <ogra_> (and we used that workaround in the past before ... on omap as well as on omap4, its not the first time we have display issues on these platforms)
[18:31] <ogra_> pgraner, i use a HDMI->DVI cable plugged into the HDMI port on the panda and into DVI on the monitor
[18:32] <pgraner> ogra_, trying on a A1 now
[18:32] <ogra_> oh, and i verified that it all works fine with the precise kernel indeed
[18:33] <pgraner> ogra_, nothing on the A1 either, and the monitors work with precise just tried and SD card with that on it :(
[18:33] <ogra_> right
[18:33] <ogra_> probably i'm justlucky to have this monitor
[18:33] <ogra_> apw said it didnt work for him either
[18:34] <ogra_> pgraner, so would you prefer to skip A2 ?
[18:34] <ogra_> (which is a shame, i woked my ass off to get the live images into perfect shape, but seeing that i and paolo seem to be the only ones with usable displays i would actually vote for that)
[18:35] <pgraner> ogra_, we won't get decent community testing but balloons can comment more
[18:35] <ogra_> and the funny part is that paolo doesnt see it at all
[18:36] <pgraner> slangasek, thoughts?
[18:37] <slangasek> pgraner: what's the question?  whether to release it?
[18:37] <ogra_> yes
[18:37] <slangasek> I think having an image that works on some board/monitor combos is better than not having one
[18:38] <ogra_> for me its good, for paolo as well, but for everyone with a non working monitor its completely unusable
[18:38] <ogra_> k
[18:38] <slangasek> and between now and tomorrow we can try to refine our understanding of what's actually affected, and release note it
[18:38]  * ogra_ rephrased the bug title to "omapdss only works on some monitors in quantal " ;)
[18:38] <pgraner> slangasek, ok I'm dumping all my info in the bug now
[18:38] <slangasek> sounds good
[18:39] <slangasek> I suppose I should get mine out and test it
[18:39] <ogra_> slangasek, we know whats broken and we know we wont fix it
[18:39] <ogra_> since we will switch to a complete new graphics stack with 3.5
[18:39] <slangasek> right, it's clear that this isn't going to be fixed for A2
[18:39] <ogra_> no, i mean its abandoned code we use in the current 3.4 kernel
[18:39] <skaet> slangasek,  pgraner,  there's a release note in the TechnicalOverview for it now, but we can refine it as more data comes in.
[18:40] <ogra_> omapdss vs omapdrm
[18:40] <slangasek> so the point of release noting it is to let community folks know what's going on so they don't spin their wheels
[18:40] <ogra_> right, there is a note
[18:40] <slangasek> or waste time starting a test that they can predict will fail
[18:40] <skaet> There is also a note pointing to the bug on the iso tracker.
[18:41] <ogra_> you guys are behaving as if we would have to expect 100s of testers ... are we actually ?
[18:41] <ogra_> (normally the arm images see at most one or two test results on the tracker, do we actually suddenly have such a big interested tester community that also has the HW ?)
[18:42] <skaet> ogra_,  we'd like to get to the state of information where we can have 100's of testers.
[18:42] <slangasek> ogra_: no, but we want community testing of our images, including ARM.  If we have three people try to test for A2, two of them hit this bug and one gets frustrated and doesn't come back, that's not good
[18:42] <ogra_> skaet, yes, i know what we would like to :)
[18:42] <slangasek> it's not that we *have* a large tester community, it's that we *need* to have a tester community and should make sure we're doing the right things to foster that
[18:43] <ogra_> slangasek, yes, indeed, thats why there is a note, still all this discussion sounds like we would have a massive tester community
[18:43] <ogra_> i totally agree
[18:43] <slangasek> ogra_: nope - just that we should treat the ARM images in a manner that's appropriate for something that's going to be widely used by the community.  ARM isn't a second-class architecture
[18:44] <ogra_> its just that in the last 3 years i work with arm nobody cared, i have to get used to the new reality ;)
[18:44] <slangasek> you're in the big leagues now ;)
[18:44] <ogra_> haha
[18:45] <Daviey> I've heard of ARM, will be nice to see some hardware. :)
[18:46] <slangasek> isn't your house full of ARM chips like mine is?
[18:48] <slangasek> pgraner: does the video bug impact our ability to do test case validation?
[18:48] <slangasek> I guess the automated stuff doesn't care, and the manual testing can be done by those whose setups happen to not be affected?
[18:48] <pgraner> slangasek, if you hit it you can't do much at all
[18:49] <slangasek> right, but not everyone hits it, so those not affected can still be validating the rest of the stack, no?
[18:50] <ogra_> right
[18:51] <ogra_> but you need to find these poor souls :)
[18:53] <pgraner> slangasek, yea, I'm a bit discouraged with 4 monitors I can get it to work, workaround included :(
[18:53]  * slangasek nods
[18:54] <pgraner> slangasek, I'm just worried of a bad testing experience for a new tester who might not read the techoverview etc...
[18:54] <slangasek> hmm
[18:55] <slangasek> I agree we should be concerned about making sure testers have a good experience, but I think the release notes for the milestone should *always* be required reading
[18:55]  * pgraner would agree... then there is reality *sigh*
[18:56] <ogra_> hey, its just an alpha
[18:56] <slangasek> well, particularly when we're talking about pre-release milestones
[18:56] <ogra_> will be better next milestone
[18:56] <slangasek> testers who aren't reading the release notes... are also probably not helping us improve the release
[18:56] <slangasek> in general
[18:56] <pgraner> ogra_, daily quality... never should we have a broken image like this....
[18:57] <ogra_> hahahaha
[18:57] <pgraner> balloons, are you directing your community testers to read the release/tech notes
[18:57] <ogra_> to quote a colleague of mine:
[18:57] <ogra_> ... then there is reality *sigh*
[18:58] <pgraner> ogra_, that is the goal, if we don't find a fix soon then we should revert that image back to a working kernel until its fixed
[18:58] <infinity> Daily quality is obviously the ultimate goal (and ARM shouldn't get a free pass there, not even a little bit), but I think that "completely changing the image format" might get some slack.
[18:58] <balloons> pgraner, hmm.. I don't know that I've called specific attention to it. but they read that stuff :-) they scour for info anywhere they can get it
[18:58] <skaet> we do mention it at the notice board on the iso tester....  for this bug.
[18:58] <pgraner> balloons, prob should make it a "requirement" if at all possible
[18:59] <skaet> which is where we're asking them to look for what's changed.   per their request for more info.
[18:59] <pgraner> skaet, it prob should be on the notice board "Before testing read the Release Notes/Tech Overview <links>
[18:59] <ogra_> pgraner, that will cause double the work than just leaving it dangling for a week until we have the new kernel
[18:59] <skaet> pgraner,  we can do that.
[18:59] <pgraner> ogra_, so your telling me we get to miss a week of testing?
[18:59] <balloons> pgraner, sounds good. I'll feature the notes and call attention to outcomes as part of wrapping up the milestones
[19:00] <balloons> not a bad idea
[19:00] <balloons> I like the linking to release notes on the notice board
[19:00] <skaet> (and I like the fact it will motivate people to add things there as we go, rather than waiting until the last minute ;) )
[19:01] <ogra_> pgraner, well, as opposed to testing one release old crap and wasting a manweek to fixing a dead horse ...
[19:01] <pgraner> ogra_, its not old crap... any testing we get is good, the daily will keep moving the only static bit is the kernel
[19:04] <ogra_> pgraner, well, paolo has a 3.5 kernel in the drawer already ... its missing PM and frequency scaling etc, but has omapdrm working
[19:04] <rickspencer3> ogra_, seriously, we should not have broken images out
[19:04] <ogra_> i would rather like to see him working on it for two days more than waste his time on having him build a quantal package from a precise kernel
[19:05] <ogra_> rickspencer3, thats a dream. ecpecially on arm wehere you have to wait months for a vendor fix etc
[19:05] <rickspencer3> ogra_, it's not a dream, it's an expectation
[19:05] <infinity> ogra_: If were waiting for a fix, we can revert.  That's the point being made.
[19:06] <ogra_> infinity, if we can revert with a fingesnip i agree, if it takes a manweek to do so while we can have a fix in less than a week we should really not care
[19:06] <ogra_> but i know i'm speaking to deaf ears with that
[19:06] <infinity> ogra_: It doesn't take that long.  Upload old kernel with new ABI, change seeds and d-i.
[19:07] <infinity> ogra_: If the fix were today, I'd agree.  But "in a week" often becomes "in a couple of weeks".
[19:07] <ogra_> test if the kernel works at all with new userspace, find a bug, fix, test again blah
[19:07] <infinity> If it doesn't work at all with new userspace, we have some upgrade issues to ponder. :P
[19:08] <ogra_> well, i'm not the kernel team lead, i dont have anything to say about paolos time anyway :)
[19:09] <ogra_> and i was actually planning to end my day 3h ago ... which i will do now
[19:09] <highvoltage> have a good evening ogra_
[19:09] <ogra_> (i just see that plan as a massive waste of developer resources)
[19:10] <ogra_> highvoltage, ciao ...
[19:14] <utlemming> Daviey: smoser and I just deep-dived on that particiliar failure and concluded it is transient. I've filed a bug against the test suite. The short story is that this looks like a transient failure, the longer story is that we can't definitively know since the test doesn't capture enough information to determine  the failure mode.
[19:15] <skaet> ogra_, infinity, slangasek - given the controversy going on right now its probably better if we hold off on these images as part of the milestone.  We'll continue to document them, and point folks to the daily.
[19:15] <skaet> s/these/ARM Desktop/
[19:17] <slangasek> skaet: I think the root question remains whether the images as-is are usable enough to warrant releasing as an alpha.  I feel that they are, but I think pgraner and rickspencer3 disagree
[19:18] <slangasek> regardless of whether we release the alpha, I agree that the video bug is severe enough that we ought to be worrying about how to get a kernel fix ASAP, rather than whenever-3.5-lands
[19:18] <slangasek> ogasawara: is bug #1010009 on your radar currently?
[19:18] <skaet> slangasek, yes,  getting the video bug fixed is the priority.
[19:18] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1010009 in linux-ti-omap4 "omapdss only works on some monitors in quantal" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1010009
[19:19] <skaet> slangasek,  the images will be available in the dailies right after, so those who are most interested in helping sort it and test can continue.
[19:19] <rickspencer3> slangasek, I don't disagree
[19:20] <rickspencer3> I don't know
[19:20] <ogasawara> slangasek: it tis and ppisati was looking at it
[19:20] <slangasek> ogasawara: ok
[19:20] <rickspencer3> I just disagree that it's acceptable to let the quality for ARM images have a "free pass" from daily quality because it's "hard"
[19:20] <skaet> +1
[19:20] <slangasek> rickspencer3: yep, right with you on that one
[19:21] <rickspencer3> I have no opinion on the releasability of the images as the stand today
[19:21] <rickspencer3> tomorrow we should talk about what support the engineers working on ARM need to meet daily quality
[19:22] <slangasek> releasability - that part's hard to judge because we don't have enough data yet on how many users are affected by the bug
[19:22] <rickspencer3> you that in my opinion the alphas don't matter much
[19:22] <Daviey> utlemming: ok, thanks for looking into it.  I wonder if you can reach out to Mr Page and see if we can include more data?
[19:23]  * slangasek ndos
[19:23]  * slangasek nods
[19:23] <rickspencer3> my guidance would be to skip Alpha 2 and just focus on getting to a good quality daily asap
[19:23] <rickspencer3> but it's not my call ;)
[19:23] <balloons> this goes back to the alpha/beta discussion
[19:23]  * balloons ducks
[19:25] <Daviey> Perhaps i have missed the severity of this issue, but it doesn't seem to be an Alpha 2 milestone blocker in my mind.  It's a release note thing.
[19:25] <balloons> I will say having more people on more hardware will help with this stuff -- this bug likely could have been found last week and fixed in time if we had folks messing with the images on a daily bassis
[19:26] <Daviey> pgraner / ogra_ : Have you managed to identify when it 'last worked'?
[19:26] <apw> pgraner, yes i have not been able to get a quantal A2 to show video on my panda, this is infinity's old one so he may know better what it is
[19:26] <pgraner> apw: its most likey https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ti-omap4/+bug/1010009
[19:26] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1010009 in linux-ti-omap4 "omapdss only works on some monitors in quantal" [High,Confirmed]
[19:26] <apw> pgraner, yep ... whatever that is
[19:27] <apw> how do i tell which panda i have ?
[19:27] <pgraner> apw, its on a sticker on the bottom of the board
[19:27] <infinity> apw: Sticker.
[19:27] <infinity> apw: I think it was an A2.
[19:27] <knome> if it hits you with the bamboo, he's the bad panda.
[19:28] <apw> infinity, A1 it seems
[19:29] <balloons> knome, +1
[19:30] <infinity> apw: Or that.  Sure.
[19:30] <infinity> apw: I dunno, it's never actually mattered what version they were before.
[19:31] <apw> infinity, indeed, its not clear what if any difference it makes normally, not sure it does here either, i think its a monitor capability thing thats the issue
[19:31] <infinity> apw: (And I suspect it still doesn't, this bug seems to hit every Panda, and the only thing that matters is what monitor you're (un)lucky enough to own.)
[19:31] <stgraber> when was that bug introduced? I ran a daily build of last week on my panda and it worked fine here (might just be lucky :))
[19:32] <infinity> stgraber: I get the impression it's been broken for the entire 3.4.0-2xx ABI.
[19:32] <infinity> If that's NOT true, and it was recently introduced, backing it out should be cake.
[19:32] <infinity> One would think.
[19:32] <Daviey> Alpha 1 had the bug.
[19:32] <infinity> Certainly less hassle than moving back to 3.2 temporarily.
[19:33] <stgraber> infinity: ok, well, the setup I have here, definitely worked with 3.4.0-201.6 as that's what I used to test the Edubuntu build last week
[19:33] <infinity> Daviey: Kay, good to know.  Then I'll stick with the assumption that it's just 3.4 in general.
[19:34] <Daviey> infinity: although, oddly - hggdh and pgraner didn't see the bug in Alpha 1...  So it might not have complete failure across all setup.
[19:34] <stgraber> infinity: if we need more tests, I'm happy to run an install test with that setup, though you'll loose access to your natty build machine while I do that :)
[19:35] <apw> infinity, any idea how i'd test the framebuffer from a precise server install
[19:35] <Daviey> pgraner is seeing it now, but didn't see it in Alpha 1.  ogra_ has seen it consistently?
[19:35] <apw> (on that board)
[19:35] <ogra_> rickspencer3, i said nothing about "hard" is said its a waste of manpower
[19:35] <Daviey> which means that it might be different issues?
[19:35] <ogra_> s/is/i/
[19:35] <pgraner> infinity, I'm digging thru the images we have in the QA lab and see if I can find the image it breaks on
[19:35] <slangasek> skaet: so how would you like to proceed with the ARM desktop images?  I think it's fine to not ship them for A2 if you think this makes them too broken to put out there
[19:36] <slangasek> skaet: my only concern is to make sure we're still getting as much testing data as we can given the bugs we're living with
[19:36] <ogra_> pgraner, we will need a precise kernel i think
[19:37] <infinity> stgraber: I'm done with my natty build machine for now, if you want to do other things with your Panda.
[19:37] <ogra_> pgraner, we havent tested any images before A1 (they werent installable or didnt build before that) and i logged that bug for A1
[19:37] <pgraner> ogra_, ok, I'll dig back anyway to the start of A1 and go from there
[19:38] <stgraber> ok, will download today's armhf+omap4 then and give it a go. Hopefully I'm one of the lucky ones where the display just works ;)
[19:38] <skaet> slangasek,  They won't go out with A2.   I was marking them as not part of it,  but I'll undo it, so more results can be gathered.
[19:38] <slangasek> skaet: ok, sounds good
[19:38] <Daviey> pgraner: Can you retest http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/221/builds/16974/testcases/1169/results .. as ogra_ first saw it there.. but was clear for you and hggdh.. So a good watertest to see if something else has changed.
[19:39] <stgraber> skaet: you noticed that you now have the "ready" flag on the tracker right?
[19:39] <ogra_> oh, intresting !
[19:39] <skaet> I agree that getting as much data as we can right now, and getting the images in a better state for the dailies should be the priority.
[19:39] <pgraner> Daviey, yep, looking for the image now
[19:39]  * ogra_ hadnt noticed that it worked for pgraner back then
[19:39] <Daviey> pgraner: http://releases.ubuntulinux.jp/ubuntu-full/12.10/alpha-1/quantal-preinstalled-desktop-armhf+omap4.img.gz ?
[19:39] <Daviey> what a crappy url
[19:39] <stgraber> if we're lucky, my test install will fail, then we'll have just one week of changes to go through :)
[19:40] <pgraner> Daviey, we keep em archived in the lab
[19:40] <Daviey> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/12.10/alpha-1/quantal-preinstalled-desktop-armhf+omap4.img.gz better.
[19:40] <ogra_> skaet, as i said, paolo has a 3.5 kernel that has not all features yet ... would just be a matter of uploading that and living with some regressions until that kernel is fixed, but seems rickspencer3 doesnt like that
[19:40] <ogra_> i think that upload could happen tomorrow so that fridays images would be usable again
[19:42] <skaet> ogra_ if we can get the daily usable on Friday that would be good.
[19:43] <ogra_> skaet, well, not if he has to roll a kernel package from scratch tomorrow
[19:43] <ogra_> thats my point
[19:46] <skaet> ogra_,  I suspect this will be a motivating factor for improving the arm desktop story overall,  best path to how is going to be determined by foundations and kernel team.
[19:47] <skaet> and getting arm dailies up to the same level we have for i386/amd64 can only be a good thing in the big picture.
[19:48] <slangasek> ogra_: hmm, I don't think rickspencer3 said anything one way or the other about a 3.5 kernel that doesn't have all features
[19:48] <slangasek> I guess one of us has misunderstood him :)
[19:49] <infinity> Granted, shipping an omap4 kernel without power management enabled means PandESes need heatsinks.  Or they die.
[19:49] <slangasek> I think the point is that the video bug shouldn't be allowed to linger unfixed for weeks, because that's incompatible with the goal of daily quality
[19:49] <infinity> Just FYI.
[19:49] <slangasek> ah
[19:49] <slangasek> right, that's probably not a good thing then either
[19:49] <slangasek> (I assumed new PM)
[19:52]  * skaet --> dr. appt.  biab.
[19:52] <stgraber> so, I seem to be one of the lucky ones, 20120627 boots fine here (kernel boot messages => upstart => ubiquity)
[19:59] <infinity> stgraber: Or an unlucky one, from the POV of a software developer who likes to reproduce bugs.
[20:00] <stgraber> infinity: well, at least we know that A2+samsung-tv seems to work ;)
[20:02] <infinity> stgraber: AIUI, any monitor that isn't (and I quote) "broken" works fine.  The problem is that people may have underestimated how many modern monitors still qualify as that. :P
[20:03] <stgraber> infinity: well, apparently pgraner is good at finding "broken" monitors ;)
[20:03] <pgraner> stgraber, not finding... buying
[20:04] <stgraber> even worse ;)
[20:10] <cjwatson> ubiquity missing fonts for two languages - damnit, I'm sure I fixed that
[20:10] <cjwatson> maybe it's pending an upload of something - I'll look later
[20:11] <cjwatson> (I expect it's Tibetan and whatever the other new one is - i.e. not a regression in that sense, these are languages not previously offered for installation
[20:11] <cjwatson> )
[20:14] <Daviey> infinity / stgraber: FWIW, my HDMI 'monitor' has HDMI standard 1.1 , and the pandaboard support wants newer version than that.
[20:14] <Daviey> Ie, sound over HDMI doesn't work with my monitor
[20:14] <Daviey> It can't parse the table.. I raised a bug on it.
[20:15] <balloons> ev, what is with the accessibility profile in wubi?
[20:15] <balloons> It has several radio buttons for visibility and mobility aids, but they are generically named like. Visibility1, etc
[20:16] <stgraber> Daviey: right, I think I've got at least 1.3 on all my monitors here, some might even be 1.4
[20:18] <pgraner> Daviey, is there an easy way to tell from the monitor itself?
[20:19] <Daviey> pgraner: no, there is a command to run
[20:19] <Daviey> one moment
[20:20] <Daviey> pgraner: parse-edid
[20:21] <Daviey> sudo apt-get install read-edid
[20:21] <Daviey> cat /sys/devices/omapdss/display0/edid | parse-edid
[20:22] <Daviey> I'm not able to get native resolution, which the board supports, as it fails to parse the table.. bug 953491
[20:22] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 953491 in linux-linaro "PB - Fails to display 1360x768, which is monitors native" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/953491
[20:22] <slangasek> cjwatson: Amharic and Sinhala, from the screenshots
[20:38] <cjwatson> slangasek: huh, not new then
[20:49] <stgraber> right, so queuebot doesn't know about status=4 :)
[20:50] <stgraber> but it does now :)
[20:52] <skaet> :)
[20:57] <skaet> Daviey,  have started using the ready button to indicate which images are good to release.
[20:57] <Daviey> skaet: satisfying to push?
[20:58] <skaet> Daviey, yes.  We'll continue to gather results until tomorrow
[20:58] <skaet> let me know if you disagree with any I've marked as ready
[20:58] <Daviey> skaet: no, initial coverage seems to be pretty good.
[20:58] <skaet> note:  I've not marked Ubuntu Server i386 as ready,  since you don't want to release it.
[20:58] <Daviey> Can people still add results to 'ready' images?
[20:58] <skaet> Daviey,  yes.   :)
[20:59] <stgraber> skaet: oh, I supposed I should change publish-image-set.py to look for the new ready state as the list of things we want to publish
[20:59] <Daviey> Then we can un-ready something if it goes bad. :)
[20:59] <stgraber> *suppose
[20:59] <skaet> Daviey,  yes,  mark it testing and it will "unready" it.
[20:59]  * skaet just the tutorial from stgraber ;)
[21:00] <stgraber> Daviey: that's the idea ;) it's going to lead to some new interesting release vocabulary for sure ;)
[21:00] <skaet> stgraber,  yes,  having publish-image-set.py pull from the ready list would be logical.   :)
[21:01] <Daviey> \o/
[21:01] <skaet> Daviey,   we'll need to keep a close eye on this,  but am excited about this capacity coming on line.  :)
[21:01] <skaet> thanks stgraber!  :)
[21:02] <Daviey> hmm, why is queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Netboot amd64 [Quantal Alpha 2] has been updated (20101020ubuntu150) just shown
[21:02] <balloons> skaet, I was still finishing my wubi testing! My result felt so meaningless when you marked it as ready
[21:02] <balloons> heh, /sarcasm
[21:03] <Daviey> infinity just did a d-i upload, ok
[21:03] <infinity> Daviey: "just"?
[21:03] <skaet> hold it,  why was there a d-i upload when we're in soft-freeze?
[21:03] <Daviey> oh wait
[21:03] <infinity> That was 20 hours ago. :P
[21:04] <infinity> queubot's just having a spaz.
[21:04] <Daviey>  -- Adam Conrad<EMAIL_ADDRESS> Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:52:08 -0600 .. confused me
[21:04] <Daviey> Wed, June 15:52:08 -0600
[21:04]  * skaet breathes again.
[21:04] <Daviey> the numeral date is irrelevant
[21:04]  * Daviey does wonder if infinity's clock is 7 days out?
[21:05] <infinity> Daviey: No, I just didn't change the line in bzr from my previous revision.
[21:05]  * infinity hates when every changelog commit changes the signature line.
[21:05] <stgraber> infinity: nope, my script is just stupid and considers "ready" as missing from the tracker, so it reset the ready flag ;)
[21:05]  * stgraber fixes
[21:10] <stgraber> ok, it's clever now, won't mess with something that's already on the tracker
[21:10] <skaet> :)
[21:14] <stgraber> skaet: sent a merge proposal for ubuntu-archive-tools, just need to get an AA to review and merge
[21:14] <balloons> skaet, ok, so other than ARM, what are we waiting/hoping for?
[21:14] <skaet> Daviey, ^ since you're now trained....
[21:14] <skaet> and have a vested interest in it working tomorrow ;)
[21:14] <infinity> stgraber: Linky?
[21:14] <stgraber> https://code.launchpad.net/~stgraber/ubuntu-archive-tools/pkgsets-improvements/+merge/112435 (diff still building)
[21:15] <stgraber> diff is: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1063260/
[21:15] <skaet> balloons,  waiting for results from the flavors to come in.
[21:15] <infinity> stgraber: Your branch name seems a bit misleading. :P
[21:15] <stgraber> infinity: oops
[21:15] <stgraber> infinity: yeah
[21:15] <skaet> balloons,  we're still missing the upgrade testing.
[21:15]  * stgraber blames bzr
[21:15] <balloons> skaet, yes, I asked for some results on that :-(
[21:15] <Daviey> skaet: I'm yet to get my boy scout badge proving that i am trained.
[21:16] <stgraber> infinity: let me get lp-propose-merge to actually propose the right branch...
[21:16] <balloons> i like "real" upgrades during the testing to happen
[21:16] <balloons> but we can always test Vm'd upgrades
[21:16] <balloons> it's just default install stuff, so not as exciting
[21:16] <infinity> stgraber: Whatever, I can fakemerge your 2-line patch. :P
[21:16] <Daviey> stgraber: the diff is lacking tests.. maybe it's still generating? :)
[21:16] <skaet> for A2,  knowing the default install stuff is working,  is good.
[21:17] <stgraber> infinity: https://code.launchpad.net/~stgraber/ubuntu-archive-tools/add-ready-state/+merge/112437
[21:18] <stgraber> slangasek: what was that option you wanted to add to lp-propose-merge? --with-my-fist? :)
[21:18] <slangasek> stgraber: heh, pretty sure that was never a serious suggestion from me ;)
[21:20] <stgraber> slangasek: it's on /Quotes, it must be serious :)
[21:21] <infinity> stgraber: Appears to DTRT, committing.
[21:22] <Daviey> gah, bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged.  See "bzr help diverged-branches" for more information.
[21:23] <Daviey> infinity: i hate you.
[21:23] <infinity> Daviey: I'm blushing.
[21:25] <infinity> I'm also hungry.
[21:25] <infinity> Possibly related.
[21:39] <slangasek> ok, I don't understand how mvo even managed to upload the update-manager SRU that's sitting in the queue
[21:39] <Daviey> Okay, i'm mostly signing off.. I'll be back later to check scrollback
[21:39] <slangasek> because I'm trying to re-export it from bzr to fix up a bug ref
[21:39] <slangasek> and the source export consistently fails
[21:42] <pgraner> slangasek, ogra_, Daviey: just had vanhoof try and it failed for him on A2 :(
[21:42] <slangasek> hmm, ok
[21:43] <skaet> good night Daviey
[21:44] <Riddell> hmm any new kubuntu alternates on the way?
[21:45] <Daviey> Riddell: i thought everything was good now?
[21:45] <Daviey> Riddell: what images are you after?
[21:46] <Riddell> Daviey: new alternates for kubuntu
[21:46] <Riddell> [8]...https://launchpad.net/bugs/1018448 meta-kde-telepathy not installing needs kubuntu alternates respun
[21:46] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1018448 in meta-kde-telepathy "0.4.0ubuntu2 can not install" [Undecided,Fix released]
[21:47] <astraljava> Hi gang, Studio's i386 wasn't apparently re-spun(?) after the kernel fix. Is it too late now to request it, still?
[21:47] <skaet> astraljava,  no,  we can respin.
[21:47] <infinity> astraljava: Hrm, I did respin it.
[21:47] <Daviey> astraljava: on it.
[21:47] <skaet> Daviey, you handling respinning Kubuntu alternate too?
[21:48] <Daviey> yeah
[21:48]  * skaet goes back to sorting bugs
[21:48] <astraljava> infinity: But I'm not seeing it in the current, but I also didn't see an email from cdimage about a failure.
[21:48] <infinity> astraljava: 20120627 should have had the kernel fixes.
[21:48] <infinity> Daviey: There shouldn't be reason to respin studio, unless 20120627 is broken somehow.
[21:48] <infinity> Daviey: And if it is, I'd like to know how.
[21:48] <astraljava> It's marked as ready.
[21:49] <infinity> Oh, but 20120627 only has amd64...
[21:49]  * infinity blinks.
[21:49] <astraljava> Yep, something's off.
[21:49] <astraljava> In the QA tracker, i386 is marked (ready).
[21:49] <skaet> infinity when you did the rebuilds last night, did you have an old version from the pad of the rebuild scripts?
[21:49] <infinity> ubuntustudio-dvd-i386 on cardamom.buildd finished at 2012-06-27 09:16:50 (success)
[21:49] <infinity> skaet: No.
[21:50] <infinity> skaet: If I had, neither arch would have shown up.
[21:50] <skaet> infinity, yeah that timestamp is definitive.
[21:50]  * skaet still wanting her pastebin of the times if its handy....
[21:51] <infinity> Oh well, I don't have the inclination right now to sort out WTF.
[21:51] <infinity> Daviey: If you wanna respin studio, go nuts.
[21:51] <Daviey> k
[21:51] <astraljava> Thanks guys!
[21:51] <infinity> skaet: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1063303/ <-- Not really all that interesting except for "arm being on one machine sucks and we need to fix that (again)"
[21:52] <skaet> thanks infinity.  :)
[21:52] <cjwatson> skaet: is it not possible to (scriptably) work out all the timings from the existing log files?
[21:52] <cjwatson> 'cos if it isn't, we should fix that, and then people wouldn't have to toss pastes around
[21:53] <cjwatson> (then you could get historical information from cronned daily builds over time, etc.)
[21:54] <skaet> cjwatson,  there were some bits missing before in terms of total time through,  but I agree that is the better approach.
[21:54] <cjwatson> if you could have another go and find out exactly what's missing for you, I'd be happy to fix that
[21:55] <skaet> cjwatson,  will study my notes in the next quiet time, and take you up on that offer.  ;)
[21:55] <skaet> thanks!
[21:56] <stgraber> yay, we now have two test results for amrhf+omap4 ;)
[22:04]  * skaet thinking a lot more than 2 have run it this afternoon....  and should be recording their results.  :P
[22:04] <slangasek> bdmurray: have you seen this update-manager test suite failure in test_html_uri_real ? sounds kinda like something you'd mentioned before
[22:05] <slangasek> bdmurray: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1063315/
[22:07] <bdmurray> slangasek: right I futzed with /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades
[22:07] <bdmurray> slangasek: or that's what I recall
[22:10] <slangasek> bdmurray: hrm; I'm building in a chroot that doesn't have that file
[22:11] <slangasek> so perhaps that's the problem
[22:12] <slangasek> aha; prompt=lts there fixes it
[22:12] <bdmurray> right
[22:12] <bdmurray> MetaRelease.py doesn't set a default for that I think
[22:12] <bdmurray> but it does for the stuff in /etc/update-manager/meta-release
[22:13] <bdmurray> so maybe sorting that out would help
[22:13] <slangasek> sounds like it
[22:13] <slangasek> not for this upload though, where I'm just trying to do a changelog tweak and reupload :/
[22:35] <Daviey> So... Ubuntu Studio i386 still didn't show up
[22:35] <infinity> Daviey: Depite it building, right?
[22:36] <Daviey> correct
[22:36]  * stgraber looks
[22:36] <Daviey> ubuntustudio-dvd-i386 on cardamom.buildd starting at 2012-06-27 21:54:28 .. and relevant Success
[22:37] <infinity> Yeah, and it's right there on the buildd.
[22:37]  * infinity checks the cdimage log.
[22:37] <stgraber> mv: cannot stat `/srv/cdimage.ubuntu.com/scratch/ubuntustudio/dvd/tmp/quantal-i386/CD1/casper/filesystem.kernel-lowlatency-pae': No such file or directory
[22:37] <stgraber> make: *** [/srv/cdimage.ubuntu.com/scratch/ubuntustudio/dvd/tmp/quantal-i386/bootable-stamp] Error 1
[22:37]  * stgraber reads some more
[22:37] <infinity> stgraber: Bah, did I miss a spot?
[22:38] <stgraber> infinity: tail on /srv/cdimage.ubuntu.com/log/ubuntustudio/quantaldvd-20120627.1.log :)
[22:38] <infinity> Balls.
[22:38] <stgraber> right, the rest looks clean, so it's just one more spot to update for the kernel stuff :)
[22:38] <infinity> Daviey: fixed.
[22:38] <infinity> stgraber: I'd fixed it in cdimage and debian-cd, but only pulled the former, not the latter.
[22:39] <stgraber> hehe
[22:39] <infinity> Daviey: Actually, don't try again.  I'll do it.
[22:39] <stgraber> well, at least Daviey should be able to just rebuilt the .iso without the livefs, should be quite quick
[22:39] <stgraber> or you
[22:39] <Daviey> For those following at home, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntustudio/quantal/dvd-20120627.1.log
[22:40] <infinity> This one should work just dandily.
[22:40] <infinity> Because I'm SMRT.
[22:40] <Daviey> infinity: are you doing it?
[22:40] <infinity> Daviey: Already building.
[22:40] <Daviey> k
[22:42]  * infinity grabs a smoke while that finishes.
[22:43] <infinity> astraljava: Sorry about the confusion there.  I forgot to pull a revision from bzr last night for your kernel changes.
[22:43] <astraljava> infinity: No worries, thanks for doing it now! :)
[22:47]  * Daviey heads to bed
[22:52] <infinity> astraljava: ^
[22:52] <astraljava> Whee! You guys are super! :) A gazillion thanks!
[23:05] <balloons> woot! a ubuntu studio image built!
[23:06] <knome> oh my
[23:06] <infinity> balloons: Well, amd64 was already built.  I just kinda effed up i386 last night, and fixed it today. :P
[23:06] <balloons> haha -- don't have too much fun
[23:06] <balloons> I'll see you all again in the morning
[23:06] <knome> night balloons


[11:56] <muessigb> hello
[11:56] <muessigb> can anybody help me, crosscompiling for xscale (armv5te) on ubuntu / debian (with uclibc)
[11:57] <muessigb> i mean c++ crosscompiling


[00:36] <hamitron> is there a way to change the order of icons on the left bar in unity?
[00:57] <hamitron> found it
[00:58] <hamitron> drag the side bit of the icon does it
[05:12] <AlanBell> morning all
[05:12] <MartijnVdS> \o
[05:40] <Azelphur> morning :p
[05:40] <Azelphur> someone needs to make it not be so hot
[06:05] <Azelphur> http://gprime.net/video.php/kill9 :D
[06:23] <popey> morning
[06:24] <Azelphur> morning :)
[06:31] <popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/135818/the-size-of-apt-get-update-lists-is-too-big is interesting
[06:31] <popey> for me an apt-get update is ~20MB
[06:55] <MartijnVdS> Debian uses diffs to make updates smaller
[07:00] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: do they do it for packages too or just the lists?
[07:02] <MartijnVdS> just the lists
[07:03] <Azelphur> I see
[07:10] <MartijnVdS> Woo
[07:10] <MartijnVdS> $isp now gives me a free upgrade to Spotify Premium
[07:12] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: nice
[07:12] <MartijnVdS> now to find some music I don't already have :P
[07:23] <popey> i wrote a script to save spoify tracks as wav files on my local machine whilst I'm listening to them. Handy when I want to play them when on machines that don't have that app
[07:24]  * popey boggles at http://www.cityinkexpress.co.uk (via Dave2)
[07:25] <popey> i had no idea you could do such a thing let alone people sell them for most printers
[07:25] <popey> good if you print a lot of pictures I guess
[07:26] <Azelphur> ah yea I saw these a while ago, my dad always used to manually refill his cartridges with bottles of ink
[07:26] <MartijnVdS> popey: at-home refill kits, you mean?
[07:26] <Azelphur> yea
[07:27] <popey> no
[07:27] <popey> these have pipes that run to the cartidges
[07:27] <popey> from an external resovior
[07:27] <Azelphur> yea, the thing popey linked will run your printer forever and you just drop in new bottles of ink
[07:27] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=M7-qzb6kFBg
[07:27] <Azelphur> probably the way it should be in all printers by default, really :)
[07:28] <MartijnVdS> It sounds like something for rich people
[07:28] <popey> looks like a little bit of faff to install it, but once done you're sorted
[07:28] <MartijnVdS> with the prices of ink being what they are
[07:28] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: opposite, bottles of ink are cheap, cartridges are expensive
[07:29] <popey> nah, they're stupid cheap
[07:29] <popey> and you transfer the chip from an existing cartidge so they dont commit suicide like normal ones do
[07:29] <popey> or something ☺
[07:30] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QP_RnOYhGw&list=UUdeWZ--ehN5ogld7cJaYhEw&index=3&feature=plcp shows moving the chip
[07:44] <MartijnVdS> glad I have a laser printer :P
[07:44] <MartijnVdS> Toner cartridges last ages
[08:31] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[08:48] <jacobw> guten morgen brobostigon
[08:48] <brobostigon> moin jacobw
[09:09]  * MartijnVdS plays the Doctor Who PS3 game
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> it's a puzzle/platform game
[09:09] <brobostigon> :)
[09:09] <dwatkins> is it any good, MartijnVdS?
[09:16] <MartijnVdS> it's punny, at least ;)
[09:16] <MartijnVdS> I haven't played enough to get the story started
[09:19] <MartijnVdS> ooh cybermen
[09:21] <MartijnVdS> and collectible hats 8-)
[09:36] <dwatkins> that reminds me, I need a fez
[09:38] <SuperEngineer> Raspberry Pi on TV ch4 now
[09:40] <dwatkins> cheers SuperEngineer
[09:40] <SuperEngineer> :)
[09:46] <directhex> fez is okay
[09:46] <directhex> but in the recent digital download game stakes, it's not in the same league as journey on ps3
[09:48] <dwatkins> yeah, journey is next on my list
[10:04] <bigcalm> Good morning peepies :)
[10:04] <brobostigon> good morning bigcalm :)
[10:05] <bigcalm> How's brobostigon this sunny Sunday?
[10:06] <MartijnVdS> oooh
[10:06] <MartijnVdS> f1 in an hour
[10:06] <brobostigon> bigcalm: could be better, this heat is affecting my eczema. and you?
[10:07] <bigcalm> Mine seems to be behaving right now :)
[10:09] <brobostigon> bigcalm: :)
[10:10] <bigcalm> I really should be packing for our holiday that starts in 6 hours :S
[11:09] <SuperEngineer> bfn folkies... I'm off to [virtual] Monaco --- it's Grand Prix time [Live coverage 1205-1530, BBC1]
[11:10] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[11:15]  * penguin42 yaaawwwnnns
[12:07] <jacobw> utc is better than bst and cest
[12:33] <directhex> jacobw, Swatch Beat Time is better than UTC!
[13:25] <jacobw> interestage
[13:52] <popey> Afternoon all, lovely day.
[13:53] <Azelphur> too hot D:
[13:59] <DJones> Azelphur: It can never be too hot
[13:59] <Azelphur> DJones: it can be for bitcoin miners :(
[14:00] <DJones> Heh, you'll have to put some of your gains to work with an air con unit
[14:00] <Azelphur> got one, it's running flat out today
[14:00] <DJones> :)
[14:01] <Azelphur> unfortunately the rig heats the walls up which in turn heats my room up, where there is no AC D:
[14:01] <DJones> I just took the dog for a walk, decided to take him out in the woods so we'd be in the shade for most of it
[14:01] <ali1234> t's only 27C today, yesterday it was 29C
[14:02] <ali1234> there's a breeze too
[14:03] <DJones> We had a breeze yesterday as well, it was quite comfortable sitting outside with a beer and a BBQ
[14:04] <ali1234> my neighbours are finally cutting their 2 foot tall grass
[14:05] <DJones> Our neighbours are like that, we've been in the house 9 years, I've only seen them cut the grass twice in that time and despite having 2 children, they never use the garden, they've never sat out in it, had a bbq, played in it, seems a bit of a waste
[14:06] <directhex> bitcoin is still profitable?
[14:07] <Azelphur> directhex: hell yes :)
[15:02] <Azelphur> \o/ found a bug in google http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/May/est%20time%20-%20Google%20Search-153638.png
[15:06] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: lies! :)
[16:50] <MartijnVdS> \o/ PI!
[17:02] <funkyHat> π?
[17:02] <MartijnVdS> raspberry!
[17:03] <funkyHat> I got an email on Thursday saying mine has been shipped!
[17:03] <MartijnVdS> I got my "shipped" mail on tuesday
[17:03] <MartijnVdS> but no tracking code
[17:03]  * brobostigon blows raspberry's at everyone.
[17:03] <MartijnVdS> but I still got it!
[17:03] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: evening :)
[17:03] <funkyHat> Only problem is I had them deliver it to my parents' house, but I'm going back to my house in London tonight -_-
[17:04] <funkyHat> MartijnVdS: you got it today?
[17:04] <MartijnVdS> funkyHat: yesterday actually
[17:04] <MartijnVdS> but I hadn't bothered to check my mailbox yet
[17:04] <funkyHat> Nice, so mine should arrive in a couple of days
[17:04] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: evening :)
[17:04] <MartijnVdS> funkyHat: I'm in .nl, that might skew the delivery time :)
[17:04] <funkyHat> Ah right
[17:05] <MartijnVdS> but it seems to have been shipped from the UK (Royal Mail, Farnell)
[17:05] <funkyHat> WHY ISN'T MINE HERE ALREADY THEN. UNFAIR
[17:05] <MartijnVdS> funkyHat: are you far up north maybe?
[17:05] <funkyHat> MartijnVdS: no, Northampton
[17:05] <MartijnVdS> where it's harsh and unforgiving, and mail trucks only come once a fortnight
[17:06] <MartijnVdS> funkyHat: so you're a bit north :P
[17:06] <MartijnVdS> well mid
[17:07] <funkyHat> I'm told that "north" is anything north of the Watford Gap. So Northampton is not north, but only just
[17:08] <MartijnVdS> funkyHat: Google Maps brings me to the same location for Northampton and Watford Gap
[17:09] <funkyHat> ⢁D
[17:16] <funkyHat> MartijnVdS: did you get a tshirt?
[17:18] <jacobw> i've met americans who consider birmingham to be in the north
[17:18] <jacobw> it's crazy
[17:20] <funkyHat> s/americans/londoners/
[17:22] <MartijnVdS> funkyHat: no
[17:33] <directhex> anything north of birmingham is scotland.
[17:34] <directhex> except for the bits north of leeds, which are scandinavia
[17:34] <MartijnVdS> directhex: and then there's Shetland
[17:34] <DJones> hmmh, that makes me scottish then
[17:34] <directhex> isn't that an arctic ice floe?
[17:35] <MartijnVdS> directhex: Faroe
[17:35] <directhex> isn't that an arctic ice floe?
[17:37]  * penguin42 puts on his finest Mancunian-Scottish accent for directhex
[18:42] <bigcalm_laptop> Cooiee
[19:08] <jacobw> hi
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> \o
[19:38] <michael__> Hello all - could someone please help with VPN?  Ive set one up to connect to where I work, used the same settings as those on my works laptop (which uses windows xp) though cant seem to find 'how' to connect to the VPN - its not listed under places >  Network.  Am I doing something wrong?
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> michael__: what kind of vpn is it?
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> michael__: openvpn? Cisco? ...?
[19:41] <michael__> Oh Ive no idea
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> then how did you set it up?
[19:42] <michael__> just went to where my wifi bars sit on the top of the screen, clicked it, went down to vpn connections and selected 'configure vpn'
[19:42] <michael__> (im using ubuntu 11.04 by the way)
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> michael__: if you do "apt-cache search network manager vpn gnome" in a terminal, it'll show you all VPN clients/technologies supported by the GUI (install the relevant package)
[19:42] <dwatkins> you probably need to know the hostname of the end-point, michael__ - you may also have to authorise the client machine
[19:43] <MartijnVdS> it'll be added to the list of VPN technologies you get when you click "Add" in the networks dialog
[19:44] <michael__> Openvpm is in that list of stuff I just got listed
[19:45] <michael__> openvpn-gnome to be precise
[19:45] <michael__> but nothing else I recognise
[19:46] <michael__> just get this (sorry, should use paste bin I know but its only a small bit...) network-manager-pptp-gnome - network management framework (PPTP plugin, GNOME UI)
[19:46] <michael__> network-manager-openconnect-gnome - network management framework (Openconnect plugin, GNOME UI)
[19:46] <michael__> network-manager-openvpn-gnome - network management framework (OpenVPN plugin, GNOME UI)
[19:46] <michael__> network-manager-vpnc-gnome - network management framework (VPNC plugin, GNOME UI)
[19:47] <MartijnVdS> yes
[19:47] <MartijnVdS> if you're connecting to a Cisco VPN network, install network-manager-vpnc-gnome
[19:47] <MartijnVdS> if it's openvpn, use network-manager-openvpn-gnome
[19:47] <MartijnVdS> etc.
[19:47] <michael__> its our work systems and I think they're all just Microsoft stuff
[19:48] <michael__> The reason Im going this is I have a VPN system on my windows XP works laptop - that laptop has decided its going to be a pain in the backside tonight so I thought id just set the same VPN thingy up on my Ubuntu laptop
[19:48] <michael__> Ive already got my work emails on here
[20:00] <popey> Evening all
[20:00] <brobostigon> evening popey
[20:07] <bigcalm_laptop> Ello popey :)
[20:07] <michael__> evening
[20:07] <popey> haha
[20:07] <popey> bigcalm_laptop: have you left yet?
[20:08] <bigcalm_laptop> popey: if I were still at home, I would be using bigcalm via my proxy :)
[20:08]  * StevenR_ wonders if laptop plus cables plus rucksack plus 2 shirts plus filofax plus washkit will exceed his baggage allowance for hand baggage
[20:08] <bigcalm_laptop> If you ever seem me with this nick, it means that I'm away from home
[20:09] <bigcalm_laptop> We're staying at Hayley's parents' for the evening then off for the coach tomorrow morning
[20:09] <popey> ahh, nice
[20:10] <bigcalm_laptop> Oh, and because there is no client attached to my irssi proxy, I get an email everytime my nick it highlighted
[20:10] <bigcalm_laptop> Handy, but only when I'm not here on my laptop :D
[20:10] <popey> bigcalm oh really
[20:10] <popey> bigcalm that must be annoying
[20:10]  * bigcalm_laptop kippers popey
[20:11] <bigcalm_laptop> I'll get 1 email with a few lines afterwards in a set time window
[20:13] <gord> bigcalm_laptop, sooo why not connect to the proxy from the laptop?
[20:14] <bigcalm_laptop> gord: haven't opened the ports on my router to do so
[20:14] <gord> oh right, fairy nuff
[20:14] <bigcalm_laptop> But I could do so at some point I guess :)
[20:14] <michael__> ooo do either you bigcalm or gord know how to replicate my windows xp VPN onto my Ubuntu machine?
[20:14] <gord> not me
[20:15] <bigcalm_laptop> michael__: pptp?
[20:15] <czajkowski> bigcalm_laptop: arent you on holidays ?
[20:15] <popey> 21:09:03 < bigcalm_laptop> We're staying at Hayley's parents' for the evening then off for the coach tomorrow morning
[20:15] <bigcalm_laptop> czajkowski: technically that's from tomorrow
[20:15] <czajkowski> bigcalm_laptop: ah cool, happy holidaying :)
[20:15] <czajkowski> tyring to plan mine now
[20:15] <michael__> you have to go easy on the jargon bigcalm as im not down with it.  Ive just written all the settings down from my windows machine, and punched them into the vpn settings box onmy ubuntu machine.  Pretty much as far as ive got so far
[20:16] <czajkowski> heading to ireland for 10 days but thats not a holiday as still working
[20:16] <bigcalm_laptop> czajkowski: I've managed to get a few things done this evening which will make my holiday a little more relaxing
[20:16] <bigcalm_laptop> michael__: not a clue then sorry
[20:16] <czajkowski> bigcalm_laptop: cool
[20:17] <bigcalm_laptop> Amused that my boss commented on my facebook status
[20:17] <bigcalm_laptop> Everybody telling me no
[20:22] <czajkowski> bigcalm_laptop: subtle :)
[20:27] <bigcalm_laptop> :O
[20:27] <bigcalm_laptop> No IRC?!
[20:27] <bigcalm_laptop> Even in a non-worky way?
[20:32] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Lots of Pink Floyd on BBC4 tonight
[20:32] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yep, all marked, :). and get_iplayer set to record.
[20:32] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: \o/
[20:33] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
[21:44] <bigcalm_laptop> Sleeeeeeep
[21:44] <bigcalm_laptop> See you kids in a week :)