[04:35]  * ianorlin is finding that synaptic makes more sense after you have been using apt for a while on the command line
[04:37] <`Fibz> synaptic is my friend. we don't always agree on things but it's been there for me through the good times and the bad  :)
[05:43] <nhaines> I haven't used Synaptic in ages.
[05:52] <rww> I use aptitude.
[06:02] <nhaines> I use apt.
[06:03] <nhaines> Also update-manager.


[01:17] <xjjk> hello, the PPA for Aurora says "publishing disabled" https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/firefox-aurora
[01:17] <xjjk> is that good or bad, and does it means there won't be Aurora builds anymore?
[11:58] <mtu> heyas.  the firefox-stable PPA shows FF8 as built but not published. you probably hear this question all the time, but when is it going to be released?
[12:00] <xjjk> well, 1) you shouldn't need the firefox-stable PPA
[12:01] <xjjk> and 2) there's a bug I think they're working on
[12:01] <xjjk> publishing disabled for beta and aurora as well, bah
[12:04] <xjjk> https://bugs.lauhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/888307 that, afaikchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/888307
[12:04] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 888307 in thunderbird "Bundled Firefox extensions disabled on upgrade to 8.0" [Critical,Fix committed]
[12:04] <xjjk> er https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/888307
[12:05] <mtu> xjjk: i'm on 10.04 because my university says i must be, so for FF8 i think i do need the PPA. or am i mistaken?
[12:05] <xjjk> mtu: I'm unsure for 10.04
[12:06] <xjjk> mtu: for recent versions of Ubuntu, the policy was to update Firefox as part of backports, i.e. no PPA needed
[12:06] <xjjk> Canonical didn't want to support old versions of Firefox
[12:06] <xjjk> I don't know if that retroactively applied to 10.04
[12:08] <mtu> i'm afraid the repos for 10.04 still hold only 3.6
[12:09] <mtu> but all right, now i know where the delay comes from, so i'll check again in abit
[12:10] <xjjk> mtu: did you check backports?
[12:11] <mtu> checking...
[12:13] <xjjk> mmm, I don't see it
[12:13] <mtu> nah. amarok, gdm, irssi, some i18n stuff, but no FF8 in backports
[12:14] <mtu> between you and me, i'd be using ubuntuzilla like on my ancient 9.10 laptop, but this is a 64 bit system...
[12:16] <xjjk> yah doesn't apply to 10.04 I guess
[12:19] <mtu> all right, thanks for the info
[12:19] <mtu> seeyas
[13:51] <chrisccoulson> bhearsum, hah, saw your tweet about the control panel. we even distro-patch extra options in to it in ubuntu!
[13:51] <chrisccoulson> (eg, a simple theme switcher plus extra power options)
[13:51] <chrisccoulson> you're not the first person to comment ;)
[13:51] <bhearsum> wow, so the regular one is even more crippled?
[13:52] <chrisccoulson> bhearsum, yeah. you can't even configure the "lid close" action in the stock one
[13:52] <bhearsum> crickey
[13:52] <bhearsum> so....dare i ask how do i something simple like how to change my display timeout settings?
[13:53] <bhearsum> or more generally, how do i configure all of the things i used to be able to?
[13:53] <chrisccoulson> lol
[13:53] <chrisccoulson> good question ;)
[13:53] <chrisccoulson> i can't remember if it's "Display" or "Screen" that you need. why on earth there are 2 panels is beyond me ;)
[13:53] <bhearsum> Screen!
[13:54] <bhearsum> thank you kind sir
[13:54] <bhearsum> the best part about linux is how everything gets rewritten every few years, once things become difficult
[13:54] <chrisccoulson> lol
[13:59] <bhearsum> how are you doing?
[14:00] <chrisccoulson> bhearsum, yeah, not too bad thanks. how are you?
[14:01] <bhearsum> about as good as can be expected given that 8.0.1 is spinning :)
[14:01] <chrisccoulson> heh
[14:01] <bhearsum> are you guys going to skip 8.0.1?
[14:01] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure. i guess that's up to micahg :)
[14:01] <bhearsum> ahhh
[14:02] <chrisccoulson> it doesn't look like there's anything for us in it
[14:02] <bhearsum> yeah
[14:02] <bhearsum> totally windows and mac vendor crap
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> g'ah - https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ppa/+build/2927491
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> 7 hours!
[14:03] <bhearsum> oh, 7 hours just waiting :(
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> the builds have been broken all weekend, i would like to unbreak them today :)
[14:03] <bhearsum> ah
[14:03] <bhearsum> what happened?
[14:04] <chrisccoulson> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=311007 landed and broke my extension
[14:04] <ubot2> Mozilla bug 311007 in Document Navigation "state change events not fired without a channel" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
[14:07] <bhearsum> ah
[14:07] <chrisccoulson> i'm used to these types of breakages now :)
[14:08] <bhearsum> yeah
[14:09] <bhearsum> did you figure out what you're going to do about the no-global-extensions thing yet?
[14:09] <chrisccoulson> bhearsum, yeah
[14:09] <chrisccoulson> we've disabled the upgrade dialog entirely, after talking to kev last week
[14:09] <chrisccoulson> we found quite a few bugs with it
[14:10] <bhearsum> ah
[14:10] <bhearsum> so you're just disabling the feature entirely?
[14:11] <chrisccoulson> ie, it disables all extensions outside of your profile, but it only appears if you have extensions installed outside of the application directory. so, if you only have extensions inside the application directory, they don't get disabled
[14:11] <chrisccoulson> but if you have extensions in your profile + some in the application directory, the extensions in the application directory will get disabled
[14:11] <chrisccoulson> really inconsistent behaviour ;)
[14:12] <chrisccoulson> bhearsum, yeah, we just set the pref which says that the dialog has been displayed before
[14:12] <bhearsum> ahhhh
[14:12] <chrisccoulson> the upgrade dialog also ignores extensions.autoDisableScopes too (which is the problem we were having)
[14:13] <bhearsum> ahhhh
[14:13] <bhearsum> well good! i'm glad that's all sorted out
[14:13] <bhearsum> i was getting worried there for a bit
[14:13] <chrisccoulson> yeah, me too :)
[14:14] <chrisccoulson> it would be nice if things didn't change quite so late in the beta cycle though :-)
[14:15] <bhearsum> tell me about it
[14:15] <bhearsum> just be thankful all this silent/background update stuff doesn't affect you!
[14:15] <chrisccoulson> it was made worse for us this cycle as well because the change happened during the week before UDS
[14:16] <bhearsum> yeah
[14:16] <chrisccoulson> and i typically don't get anything done during that week
[14:16] <bhearsum> i'm really sad we're not sticking to our commitment of no feature changes after Nightly
[14:16] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i was hoping that people would be more disciplined about that :)
[14:17] <bhearsum> especially when it comes to this update stuff, there's a lot of pressure coming from user engagement folks and some people from the top
[14:17] <chrisccoulson> yeah, the update stuff is especially scary
[14:18] <bhearsum> yeah
[14:19] <chrisccoulson> we discussed quality in ubuntu quite a bit at UDS
[14:20] <chrisccoulson> which is something we haven't been that great with in recent releases
[14:20] <chrisccoulson> i'm hoping that is going to improve a lot this cycle :)
[16:06] <micahg> bhearsum: chrisccoulson: since I didn't push or build 8.0, I figured I'd push 8.0.1 since 7.0.1 people upstream will get it
[16:10] <micahg> xjjk: 10.04 will jump on the rapid release bandwagon close to the end of life of 3.6 (which is now scheduled for Apr 2012, but subject to change)
[16:10] <micahg> chrisccoulson: is there a reason publishing is still disabled on the PPAs?
[16:10] <chrisccoulson> micahg, which PPA's?
[16:11] <bhearsum> ah
[16:11] <micahg> well, aurora, beta, and stable were disabled (presumably while you were fixing the addons issue)
[16:12] <chrisccoulson> aurora is disabled i've still not had a chance to test the first build yet (which hasn't actually happened, because the bot has been failing to create them)
[16:12] <micahg> ah, I guess you're just waiting for everythign to build
[16:12] <chrisccoulson> beta is disabled until i've got all the 9.0 bits ready
[16:16] <micahg> right, ok, makes sense
[16:17] <micahg> chrisccoulson: the good news is the chrisbot finally got chromium uploaded to the stable PPA :)
[16:17] <chrisccoulson> hah
[16:17] <chrisccoulson> i haven't been keeping much of an eye on that
[16:17] <chrisccoulson> i think the nightlies are still broken aren't they?
[16:19] <micahg> yeah, I'll get to it when I can
[16:19] <micahg> it was a crazy weekend for me
[17:07] <jceajcea> hi
[17:07] <jceajcea> I have ubuntu 10.04 with firefox-stable PPA
[17:07] <jceajcea> I have installer Firefox 7.0.1 (from that PPA)
[17:08] <jceajcea> but it is not offering the new FF 8.0.
[17:08] <jceajcea> Checking the PPA, I dn't see changes since late september, so the firefox-stable PPA seems not to be updated
[17:08] <jceajcea> Any info about this?
[17:10] <bhearsum> micahg was just saying that it's going to get 8.0.1 soon, i think
[17:11] <micahg> jceajcea: no, it'll get 8.0 soon
[17:11] <micahg> we're just waiting for stuff to build there
[17:11] <micahg> natty and oneiric will get 8.0.1
[17:12] <jceajcea> I am with 10.04. Will I get 8.0.1 eventually?
[17:12] <chrisccoulson> no
[17:12] <jceajcea> ubuntu 10.04, that is
[17:12] <chrisccoulson> 8.0.1 only has mac and windows specific fixes in it
[17:13] <jceajcea> SO Ubuntu 10.04 will get 8.0 "soon"?
[17:13] <chrisccoulson> when it's built
[17:13] <jceajcea> ETA?
[17:13]  * jceajcea a btit worried because the week delay so far :-)
[17:14] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that sucks. we had a last minute problem last week and then i was away all weekend since thursday evening, so nothing progressed
[17:15] <chrisccoulson> and now most of the PPA builders are offline
[17:16] <jceajcea> Ok. Understood. I was a bit worried about the delay and because in https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/firefox-stable they say "Publishing has been disabled for this archive.".
[17:16] <jceajcea> I stand corrected and now I know that I only have to wait a "little bit" more
[17:16] <chrisccoulson> that's because of bug 888307
[17:16] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 888307 in thunderbird "Bundled Firefox extensions disabled on upgrade to 8.0" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888307
[17:18] <jceajcea> Cam I do something to speed this up a bit?
[17:18] <jceajcea> can
[17:18] <chrisccoulson> find out where all the PPA builders went? ;)
[17:18] <chrisccoulson> j/k
[17:18] <chrisccoulson> no, there's not really anything you can do, but thanks :)
[17:20] <jceajcea> Crossing fingers to get the update "soon". I cant wait for the "tab load on demand" (500 tabs here, folks .-)
[17:20] <jceajcea> OK. Thanks for your time and attention. Your effort is greatly appreciated.
[17:47] <micahg> chrisccoulson: do the stable branches need you tarball generation fixes or are they for 9+?
[17:47]  * micahg is about to generate 8.01
[17:47] <micahg> err...8.0.1
[18:34] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, is launchpad not working properly?
[18:35] <chrisccoulson> i can't push any bzr branches
[18:48] <micahg> I just pushed 2
[20:50] <cousin_luigi> hello
[20:50] <micahg> hi cousin_luigi
[20:50] <cousin_luigi> any news about ff8 on oneiric?
[20:51] <micahg> yes, builds are going now, will test later today and release either late tonight or early tomorrow
[20:52] <cousin_luigi> oh, good to hear that, thank you
[20:52] <cousin_luigi> bbl
[21:50] <chrisccoulson> w00t, i can drop the SDK from firefox now
[21:50] <chrisccoulson> well, other than npapi headers
[23:59] <micahg> chrisccoulson: is the SDK no more or we just don't need it?
[23:59] <chrisccoulson> we don't need it


[20:19] <fwereade__> niemeyer, ping
[21:37] <thumper> fwereade__: you are working late
[21:39] <fwereade__> thumper, everybody's asleep :)
[21:39] <thumper> fwereade__: luckily it seems it was just my laptop that was screwed, not all raring
[21:39] <thumper> due to an old staging ppa I had enabled
[21:39] <thumper> which someone broke :(
[21:40] <fwereade__> thumper, good and bad news then ;)
[21:40] <thumper> fwereade__: so I now have a half functioning raring install, and I'm getting my quantal vm up to a state where I can run the go tests
[21:40] <thumper> fwereade__: I am a little confused though...
[21:41] <thumper> fwereade__: last week I was sure I merged one of my branches
[21:41] <thumper> but it doesn't seem to be the case
[21:41] <thumper> perhaps the lbox submit failed and I didn't notice
[21:41] <fwereade__> thumper, huh, strange
[21:42] <thumper> I'm just going to run all the tests again, make sure it has a recent trunk merged, and try again
[21:42] <thumper> the juju-core tests seem to be running fine inside the virtualbox quantal image I have
[21:42] <thumper> albiet slowly
[21:44] <fwereade__> thumper, I definitely can shave a few seconds off the uniter tests, at least, but I still haven't got around to it :(
[21:45]  * thumper shrugs
[21:45] <thumper> it is what it is
[22:01] <thumper> fwereade__: still around?
[22:02] <thumper> fwereade__: https://codereview.appspot.com/7370043/diff/3007/cmd/juju/constraints.go#newcode21
[22:02] <fwereade__> thumper, heyhey
[22:02] <thumper> I think we need [<service> [<constraints> ...]]
[22:02] <thumper> but does that make sense?
[22:02] <thumper> the constraints are for the service
[22:03] <fwereade__> thumper, I still think that environment constraints make sense, and I think the tool handles them..?
[22:04] <thumper> [<service>] [<constraints> ...]
[22:04] <thumper> is what you proposed
[22:04] <thumper> I'm wondering which is more normal?
[22:04] <fwereade__> thumper, wait, *get* constraints is just [<service>]
[22:04] <thumper> fwereade__: for ones where we don't set a service?
[22:04] <thumper> fwereade__: well... I'm pretty sure the command treats the first param as a service name only
[22:04]  * thumper double checks
[22:05]  * fwereade__ looks in bafflement at that code, and is sure it made sense when he wrote it
[22:05] <thumper> yes, it seems that get is just <service>
[22:05] <thumper> I should change that
[22:06] <fwereade__> thumper, incidentally I vaguely recall being a bit wishy-washy in the review -- but I'm very much +1 on init
[22:06] <thumper> fwereade__: yes, get takes zero or one params
[22:06] <thumper> fwereade__: but we should change the params for set to be... different
[22:07] <thumper> ah set requires --service
[22:07] <thumper> fwereade__: which makes me think that we have a mis-fit here
[22:07] <thumper> juju get wordpress
[22:08] <thumper> but juju set --service=wordpress
[22:08] <thumper> add -constraints to that if you like
[22:08] <fwereade__> thumper, yeah, I think you're right
[22:08] <thumper> but.. not for this branch
[22:08] <thumper> I'll fix the help text
[22:08] <thumper> but we should fix at some stage
[22:09] <fwereade__> thumper, the only source of inertia is a vague desire to avoid churn against the python version when it's ...merely icky, as opposed to wrong, if you like
[22:10] <thumper> fwereade__: oh, is this a direct copy of the python version?
[22:10] <thumper> if so, lets just leave it for now
[22:10] <thumper> and perhaps file a bug with a nice tag, like "cli-cleanup" :-)
[22:11]  * fwereade__ knows another bug that could use a tag like that :/
[22:12] <fwereade__> (the hook tools all accept --format, even if they aren't meant to produce output)
[22:12] <thumper> fwereade__: so, I can at least run all the tests in an quantal environment to confirm prior to committing
[22:12] <fwereade__> thumper, great
[22:20] <thumper> fwereade__: with the thought of aiming for constency
[22:20] <thumper> fwereade__: we have the args for "set-constratins" to be [key=[value] ....]
[22:21] <fwereade__> thumper, yep, sgtm
[22:21] <thumper> fwereade__: shoudl we change the args for "set" to be "<service> key=[value] ..." ?
[22:21] <fwereade__> thumper, ah: sorry... yes, I think that makes sense
[22:22] <thumper> kk
[22:32] <thumper> gah
[22:32] <thumper> typed lbox propose instead of submit
[22:32] <thumper> fwereade__: I'm going to try to change the account that lbox is using... to the work one, so email gets through
[22:33] <thumper> otherwise launchpad drops the email on the floow
[22:33] <thumper> floor
[22:36] <fwereade__> thumper, heh, unhelpful :(
[22:37] <thumper> fwereade__: well, launchpad isn't going to trust just anyone :)
[22:37] <fwereade__> thumper, quite so ;)
[22:37] <thumper> how long does the submit normally take?
[22:39] <thumper> fwereade__: it seems to be taking ages...
[22:40] <fwereade__> thumper, I think it still does all the propose work of generating the diff for the final rietveld push
[22:41] <thumper> hmm...
[22:41] <thumper> it has been going for minutes and minutes
[22:41] <thumper> with no feedback after the identification of the rietveld link
[22:41] <thumper> oh just done
[22:41] <thumper> geez
[22:42]  * thumper double checks launchpad to check
[22:42] <thumper> yep, in trunk now...
[22:42] <thumper> ok, back to the next pipe


[00:36] <mup> PR operator#1014 opened: test: add type hinting to test_helpers <type hints> <Created by tonyandrewmeyer> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/1014>
[01:04] <mup> PR operator#1014 closed: test: add type hinting to test_helpers <type hints> <Created by tonyandrewmeyer> <Merged by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/1014>


[07:10] <dholbach> good morning
[21:51] <Noskcaj> I just merged an RC bug fix, can someone review? https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/saucy/i7z/i7z/+merge/180258


[01:53] <pragmaticenigma> Eickmeyer, the fun part is when they fail to read the entire message... kind of a difference between reimage and reinstall... don't you think?
[01:54] <Eickmeyer> pragmaticenigma: Agreed. The problem I'm having is when someone starts prothelatizing their opinion as opposed to providing help or asking for help. That's what that channel is for, not what that person was doing. I didn't appreciate their tone.
[01:54] <Eickmeyer> Ubuntu is supposed to be friendly, and their attitude flies in the face of that.
[03:05] <lotuspsychje> good morning


[00:41] <beuno> Rinchen, pong
[08:54] <beuno> Rinchen, I'll be hoping around prague today, but I'll be in Madrid by midnight, and should be online regularly again. I'll be in and out today, so ping me again or drop me an email  :)
[13:08] <Rinchen> beuno, ping back :-)
[13:17] <beuno> Rinchen, pong back
[13:17] <Rinchen> howdy
[13:17] <beuno> hey!
[15:33] <DarkRaven> ..


[01:22] <basketball> hey you should add dropbox to ubottu factoids
[01:22] <basketball> and have it say Dropbox is a free service that lets you bring your photos, docs, and videos anywhere and share them easily.
[01:22] <basketball> and then how to install it
[01:27] <rww> I don't think that comes up often enough to be worth it, and https://www.dropbox.com/install?os=lnx is rather self-explanatory (linked from dropbox's front page)
[01:29] <Unit193> Just install nautilus-dropbox, that'll install the daemon.
[14:42] <k1l> !test
[14:45] <k1l> !guidelines > kyfella
[14:52] <k1l> is it the bot, me or the network?
[14:52] <AlanBell> k1l: what is wrong?
[14:52] <k1l> ok, its the network :)
[14:53] <bazhang> ubottu lag
[14:53] <bazhang> network
[14:53] <k1l> some heavy delay in botmessages. but its some network fault
[15:22] <phunyguy> I have a lag.
[15:57] <hggdh> I have a lager
[16:00] <k1l> @mark #ubuntu nohazmony insulting in spanish
[16:12] <k1l> hi cantstanya how can we help you?
[16:12] <cantstanya> Hi, ikonia, two things:
[16:12] <cantstanya> Can you just ban me from the umbongo channel and get it over with. Muting me is just wrong and disrespectful.
[16:12] <cantstanya> And do it right: "/mode #ubuntu +b *!*@unaffiliated/cantstanya". Last time they muted me by my nick (really stupid) and on that last ddos causing a shower of netsplits, I rejoined as my alt and moronic chanops thought I was evading. Seriously. How stupid.
[16:13] <k1l> cantstanya: if you dont want to be in the channels then take out the autojoin.
[16:13] <cantstanya> uh no?
[16:14] <cantstanya> I don't want to be muted, but if I must be muted, just shun me instead.
[16:15] <k1l> well, you could ask in here to remove the mute and show that you will follow the guidelines in future.
[16:16] <k1l> but seeing how you behave right now i dont think that sticking to the guidelines is your intention at all
[16:17] <cantstanya> While I am capable of adhering to whatever guidelines, whether or not I am/do is way too subjective to say for sure.
[16:17] <phunyguy> *nod*, but you can make an effort.
[16:17] <cantstanya> hi phunyguy
[16:17] <phunyguy> hi.
[16:18] <cantstanya> Well I'm proposing a solution that's quite possibly in the best interest of everyone though.
[16:18] <cantstanya> can't beat that, here we go again, me solving problems, taking names, and busting crime.
[16:19] <phunyguy> I am not sure I agree there.  It takes time for someone to set the ban, log the entries, etc, only for you to come back later and want it removed.
[16:19] <cantstanya> Nah, I doubt I'd want it removed. And it's just "/mode #ubuntu +b *!*@unaffiliated/cantstanya"
[16:19] <phunyguy> we are aware on how to set a ban.
[16:20] <cantstanya> I made it SO simple to copypasta.
[16:20] <cantstanya> I doubt that
[16:20] <phunyguy> However I am not an op in that channel.
[16:20] <cantstanya> See the example above.
[16:20] <cantstanya> Of "idiots banning by nick".
[16:20] <k1l> cantstanya: again: just stay away from the channel if you dont want to be there
[16:20] <phunyguy> you could always just not join the channel. Simple resolution.   Is there anything else we can help you with?
[16:21] <k1l> cantstanya: and insulting is not the way to go at all
[16:21] <cantstanya> k1l: I'm sorry but if chanops are banning by nick, and netsplits are occurring, then they immediately jump to the conclusion of "he evaded", that's stupid.
[16:22] <k1l> cantstanya: that is no reason to act as you did while the ban didnt work.
[16:22] <cantstanya> Hrm what I was banned for, in most situations, were the results of act of jealously really.
[16:22] <cantstanya> s/act/&s/
[16:22] <cantstanya> But that's neither here nor there.
[16:22] <k1l> cantstanya: we are not tryining to get a "most bans" highscore. so if you dont want to be in the channel just stay away. thats it
[16:23] <cantstanya> Like I said, I would like not to be muted, but being muted feels disrespectful. Ergo, me asking for a outright ban.
[16:24] <chu> It does in fact clog the system and we have to remove bans each month, so "in the best interest of everyone", if you don't like it, just stay away.
[16:24] <cantstanya> So mutes don't follow that same issue? preposterous.
[16:25] <cantstanya> Lying to my face isn't very becoming.
[16:25] <chu> We don't mute as many people :)
[16:25] <cantstanya> Let's see if that's indeed accurate.
[16:25] <k1l> cantstanya: since you dont want to stick to the guidelines just stay away. no need to make extra drama out of it.
[16:26] <phunyguy> cantstanya: the mute issue is probably a misunderstanding.   Even myself, the mute is set to nick*!*@*, because they are generally temporary and due to someone timing out over and over for me.   So being accused of evading is probably part of the same misunderstanding.
[16:26] <phunyguy> the mute alias I have*
[16:26] <phunyguy> err sorry, got aliases confused, I meant apste
[16:26] <cantstanya> I believe it's pure ignorance, that's just my opinion.
[16:26] <phunyguy> paste*
[16:26] <phunyguy> for flooding.
[16:27] <cantstanya> but chu is right, there are much more bans than mutes.
[16:27] <cantstanya> some of these bans are redundant too.
[16:27] <cantstanya> I am laughing.
[16:27] <phunyguy> but yes, pure misunderstanding.   We can agree to disagree if you want, and if you want to be an op, you may apply.  We could always use the help.
[16:28] <cantstanya> Oh no, that's responsibility.
[16:28] <cantstanya> I refrain from such things.
[16:28] <phunyguy> then please stop complaining and creating drama.
[16:28] <phunyguy> because that clearly takes mroe effort.
[16:29] <cantstanya> oh ikonia isn't even here :<
[16:29] <cantstanya> I thought he was
[16:29] <phunyguy> yep, wasted effort.
[16:29] <cantstanya> ;(
[16:29] <cantstanya> oh well IdleOne http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-02-27/irc-support-sig.2014-02-27-18.00.log.html
[16:29] <cantstanya> feel free to remove me, just as the chanops are too lazy to ban properly, I am too lazy to /part.
[16:30] <cantstanya> bye bye
[16:30] <cantstanya> nap time
[17:59] <basketball> i sent my request of an added factoid to ubottu
[18:21] <Jordan_U> basketball: I don't personally like advertising proprietary applications / services via ubottu. (And yes, that makes me already conflicted on Ubuntu One).
[18:22] <basketball> isnt ubuntu one though
[18:22] <basketball> and so i gimp
[18:22] <phunyguy> yeah that is one big ad.
[18:23] <basketball> do you want me to shrink it down
[18:23] <Jordan_U> basketball: GIMP is Free software.
[18:23] <phunyguy> I thought only the server side of ubuntu one was proprietary/closed source?
[18:24] <chu> Still proprietary.
[18:24] <Jordan_U> phunyguy: Indeed, it's a little better than dropbox in that respect, though I still would personally prefer that be opened.
[18:24] <basketball> is that better
[18:27] <Jordan_U> basketball: "!dropbox is <reply> To install Dropbox in Ubuntu follow <link to trusted guide here>" would make me happier. Such a factoid should be used as a response to someone asking how to install Dropbox, i.e. not advertising the service, but instead just explaining how to install it in Ubuntu.
[18:32] <Jordan_U> basketball: That page, while giving links to .deb files, has as the only explicit instructions downloading a tar.gz file and extracting it as "installation". That makes it a poor guide.
[18:32] <basketball> ok i am signing the ubuntu code of conduct i will find a better one
[18:35] <chu> Thanks basketball :)
[18:35] <basketball> for what
[18:36] <basketball> i am following this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/OperatorRequirements
[18:36] <phunyguy> I thought it was in the repos already
[18:36] <chu> Updating the dropbox factoid.
[18:36] <phunyguy> nautilus-dropbox or something
[18:36] <basketball> chu:  how do i get a fingerprint for the code of conduct
[18:37] <hggdh> phunyguy: nautilus-dropbox is
[18:37] <phunyguy> so why is that not the recommended way?
[18:38] <hggdh> IDK. Capabilities, perhaps?
[18:39] <phunyguy> let me try it
[18:40] <phunyguy> yep, it is downloading dropbox from the site
[18:40] <phunyguy> This probably won't be a useful factoid if it is a simple package install.  However I have not tried on 12.04
[18:42] <phunyguy> !info nautilus-dropbox precise
[18:43] <phunyguy> yep.
[18:45] <basketball> what are the chances of being accepted as an op
[18:45] <phunyguy> If they let me in, you may have a good shot.  :)
[18:46] <phunyguy> but seriously, I really don't know.  Have you read the requirements?
[18:46] <basketball> yea i am doing them now
[18:46] <basketball> i am signint the code of conduct
[18:47] <basketball> phunyguy:  it says to Apply to join the appropriate operator team(s) on Launchpad.   what is that for ubuntu
[18:50] <phunyguy> find the ubuntu ops team launchpad page
[18:51] <basketball> is this it https://launchpad.net/~irc-ubuntu-ops-ops
[18:51] <phunyguy> no that is this channel
[18:51] <phunyguy> take off the second -ops
[19:01] <IdleOne> basketball: Please part this channel, if you have any more questions about becoming an op in the ubuntu channels you can ask in #ubuntu-irc.
[19:02] <Unit193> !canibeanop
[19:02] <basketball> thanks k1l_
[19:03] <basketball> ok IdleOne  peace
[19:20] <rww> How many legitimate users matching *!~ircap@* do we get in #ubuntu? It seems like there
[19:20] <rww> 's a spam wave happening these days with that profile.
[19:20] <rww> ircap, as far as I can tell, is a non-English mIRC script thing, so I don't imagine too many...
[19:21] <k1l_> i banned<EMAIL_ADDRESS>due to alot of spam from there
[20:09] <DJones> rww: I checked yesterday when there was a lot of spam, and it was the only user from ircap
[20:22] <Pricey> How does this spam manifest? I haven't been able to receive any of it.
[20:25] <k1l_> several users reporting independently
[20:30] <Pricey> Spam to /msg ? Any obvious trigger or random?
[20:31] <DJones> Pricey: If its the one I think, Ban 60032 is a typical example, its pm spam, if you comment/reply to something in #u you get spammed with a webcam link to a .es website
[20:33] <k1l_> active users in #u. but seems to filter ops or cloaks. ircap as ident and spanish language spanish/southamerican ip
[20:34] <DJones> Pricey: The ban number I mentioned includes a copy of the spam
[20:34] <Pricey> k1l_: DJones: Thanks muchly, I see.
[20:34] <phunyguy> these spammers are pretty clever
[20:42] <Jordan_U> k1l_: I recieved the spam, and I can op myself in #ubuntu (I assume you meant that it looks at the access list rather than people actively opped).
[22:03] <k1l_> again<EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[22:03] <k1l_> did we have a single user with ircap that didnt spam?
[22:04] <IdleOne> don't know
[22:51] <teward> can an op ban Hal_Jay?


[00:32] <Guest52> hello
[00:32] <Guest52> i just installed kubuntu on an old laptop, my system sometimes freezes and idk why, can anyone help?
[02:31] <user|17> I have installed kubuntu 23.10  twice now. In both cases from the net and from a download disk. both times the desktop for firefox in totally un:] readable and pixulated. Is there a fix for this coming.
[04:30] <tomreyn> user|17: the entire desktop is showing badly, or just firefox?
[04:31] <tomreyn> can you show a screenshot? (upload it to imgur.com or a similar site and link it here)
[04:32] <tomreyn> also, what does this print?   lspci -nnd ::0300
[07:48] <user|63> Hello, I still cannot play most video files - speifically.mp4. but also some other types. I have installed Kubuntu Extras and other recommended updates, but still cannot play those files.
[07:48] <user|63> What do you recoomend?
[07:49] <user|63> I meant to write retsricted-extras
[07:49] <user|63> restricted extras
[08:15] <Guest15> Hello... I am still cannot play most video files (like .mp4) in Kubuntu 23.04, even after installing Kubuntu-restriced-extras. Any ideas?
[08:16] <diogenes_Vx15> Guest15, what player?
[08:17] <Guest15> Any of the players - VLC, Mplayer...
[08:17] <diogenes_Vx15> Guest15, was it playing before?
[08:19] <Guest15> tried Dragon Player, haruna, celluloid, mpv - nothing
[08:19] <Guest15> Previous version of Kubuntu - yes, it was playing... but with 23.04 - nothing
[08:20] <diogenes_Vx15> Guest15, is this a new install/upgrade or what?
[08:20] <Guest15> I should mention that some older videos I have .mkv, play
[08:20] <Guest15> Kubuntu 23.04 is a new install
[08:23] <diogenes_Vx15> Guest15, after installing Kubuntu did you do: sudo apt update && sudo apt full-upgrade
[08:23] <Guest15> I did sudo apt update, but not sudo apt upgrade
[08:24] <diogenes_Vx15> then first upgrade, reboot and come back.
[08:24] <Guest15> Do I need to do upgrade? It is a brand new install of 23.04
[08:24] <diogenes_Vx15> if there are any updates then of course you have to upgrade.
[08:25] <Guest15> Hmmm... did not know that... OK. I will do the sudo apt upgrade...
[08:27] <Guest15> I am going to do the upgrade command now... since it is the machine on which I am chatting here, I will lose you guys for a while... I hope the machine still boots OK after that
[08:29] <diogenes_Vx15> Guest15, you can join us from your phone.
[08:32] <Guest15> OK, I ran the command diogenes recommended. I should mention that it did a lot of stuff, but also returnedan error code of 1 - I think it has to do with the bluetooth process which is not working
[08:33] <Guest15> So now I will reboot and see if things have improved. I will wait a minute in case any of you guys have additional comments
[08:33] <diogenes_Vx15> wait
[08:33] <diogenes_Vx15> Guest15, don't reboot.
[08:33] <diogenes_Vx15> it should not return any errors.
[08:34] <diogenes_Vx15> pastebin the error and let's see what is going on.
[08:34] <Guest15> It has to do with bluetooth...
[08:34] <diogenes_Vx15> !pastebin
[08:34] <diogenes_Vx15> doesn't matter bluetooth or something else, there must not be any errors.
[08:37] <Guest15> Hold on... trying to give you the error ... here is what it gave at the end:
[08:37] <Guest15>  bluez
[08:37] <Guest15>  pulseaudio-module-bluetooth
[08:37] <Guest15>  bluedevil
[08:37] <Guest15>  bluetooth
[08:37] <Guest15>  blueman
[08:38] <diogenes_Vx15> Guest15, don't paste the output in the chat.
[08:38] <diogenes_Vx15> !pastebin
[08:40] <Guest15> I am not sure what I am doing wrong
[08:40] <Guest15> I used dpaste...
[08:40] <diogenes_Vx15> then share the link the url.
[08:40] <diogenes_Vx15> paste the url in the chat here.
[08:41] <Guest15> https://dpaste.com/GJ97JE4HT
[08:41] <Guest15> Like this?
[08:42] <Guest15> There was all the stuff from the original command, but it was OK - no error
[08:43] <diogenes_Vx15> ok like that but run: sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade
[08:43] <diogenes_Vx15> pne more time and paste the entire output.
[08:44] <Guest15> OK... hang on
[08:48] <Guest15> https://dpaste.com/82DVLQVM6
[08:53] <diogenes_Vx15> run: sudo apt purge bluez
[08:56] <Guest15> Done, here is the output: https://dpaste.com/GRH2EEBCJ
[08:58] <diogenes_Vx15> nasty errors, let's see your sources, run: apt-cache policy | nc termbin.com 9999
[08:58] <diogenes_Vx15> you will get an url in the terminal, paste it here.
[09:00] <Guest15> https://termbin.com/j0st
[09:04] <diogenes_Vx15> Guest15, run: sudo systemctl restart bluetooth
[09:04] <diogenes_Vx15> and see if you get any errors.
[09:07] <Guest15> https://dpaste.com/C5Z6J84KP
[09:08] <diogenes_Vx15> Guest15, ok let's hope the reboot can fix this, if not then we will see.
[09:09] <Guest15> And I ran the command it recommends and got this: https://dpaste.com/5Q5YLRWT6
[09:09] <Guest15> So, reboot now?
[09:09] <diogenes_Vx15> yes reboot.
[09:13] <Guest15> I am back...
[09:15] <diogenes_Vx15> let's see again: systemctl status bluetooth
[09:17] <Guest15> https://dpaste.com/5FUF6DN8A
[09:20] <diogenes_Vx15> Guest15, ok run: sudo dpkg -r --force-all bluez
[09:23] <Guest15> Diogenes - did that command. Here is the output: https://dpaste.com/8M56A97GR
[09:32] <diogenes_Vx15> Guest15, run: snap list bluez
[09:32] <diogenes_Vx15> does it show anything?
[09:33] <Guest15> Yes:
[09:33] <Guest15> greg@HTPC-Kata:~$ snap list bluez
[09:34] <Guest15> Name   Version  Rev  Tracking   Publisher   Notes
[09:34] <Guest15> bluez  5.64-4   356  22/stable  canonical✓  -
[09:34] <diogenes_Vx15> oh damn
[09:34] <diogenes_Vx15> run: sudo snap remove bluez
[09:35] <Guest15> Oh-oh... does not sound good
[09:35] <diogenes_Vx15> this snap madness is just crazy.
[09:36] <Guest15> Here is the result:
[09:36] <Guest15> bluez removed
[09:36] <diogenes_Vx15> now: sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade
[09:37] <Guest15> This time no errors. You want to see the whole output?
[09:38] <diogenes_Vx15> no no, if no errors then fine.
[09:38] <Guest15> OK, so now reboot again?
[09:38] <diogenes_Vx15> now run: snap list | nc termbin.com 9999
[09:38] <diogenes_Vx15> share the url.
[09:39] <Guest15> Here is the output:
[09:39] <Guest15> https://termbin.com/adhm
[09:41] <diogenes_Vx15> now run: dpkg -l | grep -i extras | nc termbin.com 9999
[09:43] <Guest15> Output:
[09:43] <Guest15> https://termbin.com/5uvw5
[09:43] <diogenes_Vx15> run: sudo apt purge kubuntu-restricted-extras
[09:45] <Guest15> It said it removed the restricted-extras.
[09:45] <Guest15> I should mention that in my attempts to get this working, I may have installed Ubuntu-restricted-extras as well...Should that be removed also?
[09:46] <diogenes_Vx15> that is not installed.
[09:46] <diogenes_Vx15> now run: sudo apt autoremove ubuntu-restricted-extras --purge
[09:46] <diogenes_Vx15> after that: sudo apt autoremove kubuntu-restricted-extras --purge
[09:47] <Guest15> Ah... you saw that from one of the outputs..
[09:48] <Guest15> OK done both commands
[09:48] <utkojhamela> I was thinking it was simething about releated to snap the whole time but wasn't sure :|
[09:49] <Guest15> First I heard of snap in the latest release
[09:50] <diogenes_Vx15> Guest15, ok now run: sudo apt autoremove && sudo apt autoclean
[09:50] <Guest15> Done
[09:51] <diogenes_Vx15> let's reboot.
[09:51] <Guest15> OK....
[09:53] <Guest15> I am back....
[09:54] <diogenes_Vx15> try to open some files in VLC.
[09:56] <Guest15> Not playiing...
[09:56] <Guest15> But don't I need to now install restricted-extras?
[09:56] <diogenes_Vx15> yes now run: sudo apt install ubuntu-restricted-extras
[09:57] <Guest15> Ubuntu?
[09:57] <Guest15> Not Kubuntu?
[09:58] <diogenes_Vx15> yes ubuntu.
[09:59] <Guest15> Done... no errors
[09:59] <Guest15> Reboot?
[10:00] <diogenes_Vx15> no, try to open with MPV.
[10:01] <Guest15> Tried, but I think mpv crashes... no message... just nothing happens
[10:01] <Guest15> Shall I try another player?
[10:02] <Guest15> ... or reboot?
[10:03] <diogenes_Vx15> no, try in termina: mpv /path/to/file.mp4
[10:03] <diogenes_Vx15> and let's see what error it shows.
[10:03] <Guest15> OK
[10:05] <diogenes_Vx15> Guest15, btw is this a virtual machine by any chance?
[10:07] <Guest15> Failed to recognize file format.
[10:07] <Guest15> Exiting... (Errors when loading file)
[10:08] <Guest15> Not virtual machine...
[10:12] <diogenes_Vx15> Guest15, open this in the browser and see if those videos play: https://samplelib.com/sample-mp4.html
[10:14] <Guest15> At least the first 3 videos play... Shall I try more of the videos on the page?
[10:16] <diogenes_Vx15> Guest15, no, download any sample video from here and play it with mpv: https://file-examples.com/index.php/sample-video-files/sample-mp4-files/
[10:20] <Guest15> Did... mpvv plays it locally
[10:21] <Guest15> mpv
[10:21] <diogenes_Vx15> Guest15, voilla, everything works, those files that don't play are just corrupted and that's why they don't play.
[10:22] <Guest15> I was afraid you were going to say that... when I saw it work, I thought that too
[10:22] <Guest15> Is there any way to fix the files
[10:23] <Guest15> And Thank you very much Diogenes and your coworkers who helped
[10:24] <diogenes_Vx15> Guest15, maybe try to open them in a video editor and see if it opens them and allows you to do any manipulations, try first Kdenlive.
[10:24] <Guest15> Thanks again Diogenes
[10:25] <diogenes_Vx15> no problem.
[10:25] <Guest15> Thank you. thank you, Thank you
[10:25] <diogenes_Vx15> :) you're very welcome.
[11:58] <stuffandthings> On 23.10, is anyone else having dolphin crash just about every time you copy a file to overwrite another?, happens to me on install/live dvd/vmware? 23.04 works just fine.
[12:03] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:04] <stuffandthings> Yo
[12:04] <BluesKaj> yoyo
[12:05] <stuffandthings> Whats up with whats going down?
[12:08] <BluesKaj> !chat
[12:09] <stuffandthings> right, right
[12:09] <stuffandthings> are you on 23.10?
[12:10] <BluesKaj> just ask your question if you have an issue
[12:11] <stuffandthings> I just did but it was right before you came on and no one else seems to be active. Every time I copy a file to overwrite another, it crashes dolphin, weather kubuntu is installed/running off live iso/running on vmware. 23.04 works fine.
[12:12] <stuffandthings> confirmed that the iso hash is fine
[12:14] <BluesKaj> you can't overwrite a file on a live session
[12:14] <stuffandthings> you can if its something you just downloaded onto a user folder like the desktop
[12:14] <stuffandthings> its running in memory, its not read only
[12:15] <stuffandthings> but besides that, it happens when installed too
[12:15] <BluesKaj> it'll be temporary afaik
[12:15] <BluesKaj> pw protected maybe
[12:16] <stuffandthings> but forgetting for a sec the live session, when running on an installed 23.10, even, i cannot overwrite on copy
[12:16] <stuffandthings> only move
[12:16] <stuffandthings> copy crashes dolphin
[12:16] <BluesKaj> what kind of file?
[12:16] <stuffandthings> anything
[12:17] <stuffandthings> make a new text file, make another somewhere else, copy it over the first one, crash
[12:17] <BluesKaj> have you updated and upgraded lately? I have to ask
[12:18] <stuffandthings> yep, its current
[12:18] <stuffandthings> i apt update more that i should, lol
[12:18] <BluesKaj> checked your logs for errors?
[12:18] <Elliria> Hey there. Does anyone know why Konqueror Gestures are enabled in System Settings --> Shortcuts --> Custom Shortcuts since Konqueror isn't installed by default?
[12:19] <stuffandthings> which log would i check, btw, its only dolphin and the desktop, i installed pcmanfm-qt and it works fine when using that
[12:20] <BluesKaj>  /var/log
[12:24] <stuffandthings> which file in /var/log?
[12:26] <stuffandthings> fwiw, only the instance of dolphin that im copying to dies, not any others that are open
[12:27] <BluesKaj> syslog
[12:31] <stuffandthings> wow, i just caused another crash, right after the minute turned over to 8:30 and there is a lot of stuff for that minute there...
[12:32] <stuffandthings> ok found it
[12:33] <stuffandthings> its a decent amount of lines, where should i paste it?
[12:34] <stuffandthings> i wont want to paste a huge dump here
[12:34] <stuffandthings> *dont
[12:34] <stuffandthings> atleast 25 lines
[12:41] <BluesKaj> !paste
[12:45] <stuffandthings> https://dpaste.com/8BYEHPWKQ
[12:45] <stuffandthings> thanks a lot for taking the time to help, by the way
[12:49] <stuffandthings> "Did the X11 server die?"  it says. No, it did not. just the Dolphin window died.
[12:54] <BluesKaj> the transition to wayland on KDE is more complex than gnome so we have to wait a bit longer til KDE is ready for wayland
[12:55] <stuffandthings> wait, was i on wayland? i never thought of checking, one sec...
[12:55] <stuffandthings> ive just been using the default display server
[12:56] <stuffandthings> nope, its x11
[12:56] <stuffandthings> might as well try on wayland and see if that works though
[12:57] <stuffandthings> its no different, crashes all the same
[12:58] <stuffandthings> i dont think this is a display serve bug at all
[13:00] <stuffandthings> *server
[13:01] <BluesKaj> that's beyond my scope ... I'm no expert on these strange errors. I try to help when I caqn but this one is beyond me
[13:02] <stuffandthings> its cool, thanks for taking the time
[13:04] <Elliria> Hey there. Does anyone know why Konqueror Gestures are enabled in System Settings --> Shortcuts --> Custom Shortcuts since Konqueror isn't installed by default in Kubuntu 22.04 LTS?
[13:09] <stuffandthings> Elliria: did you ever have konqueror installed?
[13:09] <Elliria> No.
[13:10] <Elliria> And I was just poking around in settings just now to try to change the sound effect of my caps-lock key and happened to notice those Konqueror gestures and wondered why they're enabled.
[13:10] <stuffandthings> i dont have 22.04 handy at the moment, its not there on 23.10, i wonder if its possible you installed something that depends on a konqueror item perhaps?
[13:10] <Elliria> Maybe, but you'd think I'd have Konqueror installed as a result, wouldn't I?
[13:11] <stuffandthings> not certain, but i figure something could depend on a lib or something like that, without needing to install the whole konqueror
[13:12] <Elliria> Ah, I suppose that's possible.
[13:12] <stuffandthings> either that or you stumbled on a 22.04 bug
[13:13] <stuffandthings> is libkf5konq6 installed?
[14:38] <Elliria> Nope.
[14:38] <Elliria> I also did a search for konq in Muon and none of the packages that show up are installed.
[14:44] <stuffandthings> huh, i wonder if its a bug in 20.04
[15:06] <stuffandthings> im gonna get 20.04 and see if its like that off the bat
[15:13] <stuffandthings> *22.04
[15:14] <stuffandthings> Elliria: is your 22.04 up to date?
[15:14] <Elliria> Yep.
[15:15] <stuffandthings> ok, ill spin it up on a vm and see if its like that on my end.
[15:16] <Elliria> Good idea. I've got a VM, too. I'll look there as well.
[15:17] <Elliria> Yep. It's that way in my VM, too, and I haven't installed any software on that. It's a vanilla Kubuntu 22.04 LTS installation.
[15:17] <Elliria> That's just strange.
[15:18] <stuffandthings> interesting
[15:18] <stuffandthings> im going to still try here
[15:18] <Elliria> Thanks. I appreciate it.
[15:18] <stuffandthings> say, what vm are you using?
[15:18] <Elliria> All I can think is that they put it there in case you install Konqueror.
[15:18] <Elliria> VirtualBox.
[15:19] <stuffandthings> that sounds plausible
[15:19] <stuffandthings> ah ok, im on vmw ws and have been experiencing some bugs
[15:19] <stuffandthings> i was going to ask if you did too, on the off chance you were using vmw
[15:19] <Elliria> But no other software is like that. If you install something, you often have to configure it, so you'd think they'd leave it to us to configure it if we were to install it instead of having that stuff enabled by default.
[15:20] <Elliria> The only VM software I've ever used is VirtualBox, because when I first discovered that software like that existed, it was the only one I could figure out. Heh.
[15:20] <stuffandthings> true, but once appon a time, konqueror was the default file/web prog
[15:21] <stuffandthings> vmw vs is very similar to set up
[15:21] <Elliria> Yeah, but that's been many years ago, hasn't it? Dolphin has been in use for years now.
[15:21] <Elliria> I may have to give that a try some time.
[15:21] <stuffandthings> yeahm dolphin came with kde 4
[15:21] <stuffandthings> between vmw and vb, both have strengths and weaknesses
[15:22] <Elliria> As is probably true of everything. Heh.
[15:22] <stuffandthings> mostly
[15:22] <stuffandthings> the nice thing is that with both, its now possible to get 3d accel on win98
[15:22] <Elliria> My one irritation with VB is that you have to get it directly from them instead of from the Ubuntu repositories.
[15:23] <Elliria> Interesting. I don't have a copy of Win98, but I've got WinXP, WinME, and Windows10. I've never tried to run them in a VM, though.
[15:24] <stuffandthings> xp can do 3d on both but i think vb might not do it on the current version
[15:24] <stuffandthings> for 98, you need a 3rd party driver
[15:24] <stuffandthings> from https://github.com/JHRobotics
[15:24] <Elliria> I mainly use the VM for trying out stuff in Kubuntu 22.04 LTS before using it in my production machine. I'll also use it for trying out things like Debian or Ubuntu, etc.
[15:24] <Elliria> Interesting.
[15:24] <stuffandthings> i use them all the time to try stuff
[15:25] <stuffandthings> snapshots are the best
[15:25] <Elliria> That is a seriously cute avatar. Heh.
[15:25] <Elliria> I ran into some trouble with a snapshot recently and may not use those any more.
[15:25] <stuffandthings> lol yeah
[15:26] <stuffandthings> what happened?
[15:27] <Elliria> When the GRUB boot loader's unique identifier changes, which it has to in order to create a snapshot, because "there can be only one", then GRUB gets upset when it tries to update.
[15:27] <Elliria> I got this error when I did a recent update on the VM: "Error while installing package: installed grub-efi-amd64-signed package post-installation script subprocess returned error exit status 32"
[15:28] <Elliria> According to someone on the internet, you can ignore the error message, because the update really is being installed and you can verify that by using the dpkg -l | less command. He was right that it seems like it's true when it's examined in that way, but it isn't actually properly installed, so you really can't ignore the message.
[15:28] <stuffandthings> hmm
[15:28] <stuffandthings> i think that might be avoidable with vmw
[15:28] <Elliria> My VM's GRUB is currently messed up and I'm waiting for some help with it from a friend, but he hasn't gotten around to it yet.
[15:29] <Elliria> It is, but I didn't avoid it and avoiding it seems like more work than it's worth. Here, I'll paste the document I created about it into a pastebin.
[15:29] <stuffandthings> its been a while, so i forget exactly if vbox had this, but in vmw if you snapshot and make some kind of move or copy, it asks you if you moved or copied it, it should take care of things like that
[15:30] <Elliria> You'll likely encounter it if you use snapshots and get GRUB updates.
[15:30] <Elliria> https://bpa.st/6MKA
[15:31] <Elliria> I think the only thing I get asked when I make a snapshot is if I want to use the existing drive or have it create a new one and I always opt for the new one because shared devices can get you in trouble if you forget that that's what you're doing.
[15:31] <stuffandthings> before it dive in, i just launched 20.04 and realised that im dense...
[15:32] <stuffandthings> the konqueror shortcuts are in custom shortcuts right?
[15:32] <Elliria> That paste has some links I found useful that had some advice for what causes the issue and what can be done to deal with it and/or prevent it.
[15:32] <Elliria> Yep.
[15:32] <stuffandthings> heh, theyre there on my main system (23.04) too.
[15:32] <Elliria> System Settings --> Shortcuts --> Custom Shortcuts
[15:32] <Elliria> Isn't that strange?
[15:33] <Elliria> Are they enabled on your 23.04 system?
[15:33] <Elliria> They're enabled on mine.
[15:33] <Elliria> And in the VM.
[15:33] <stuffandthings> yep, enabled
[15:33] <Elliria> I'm tempted to disable them to see what will happen, but the sky might fall. Heh.
[15:33] <stuffandthings> creating a new drive might be why
[15:34] <stuffandthings> i do snapshots on my main system too, (via timeshift) so ill mess with it and try
[15:35] <Elliria> You'll only get that error if you happen to get a GRUB update. I suppose you could cause one by grabbing an old ISO and snapshotting it before updating it.
[15:36] <Elliria> But you should be able to make a completely-independent snapshot without issue, so this is probably going to end up being a bug that needs to be reported.
[15:36] <stuffandthings> to quote homestarrunner, "everything is fine, nothing is ruined"
[15:36] <Elliria> Heh.
[15:36] <stuffandthings> with regards to disabling the konq shortcuts, that is
[15:37] <stuffandthings> didnt change anything, dolphin still works, so its not used for that
[15:38] <Elliria> Interesting.
[15:40] <Elliria> The sky may still fall later, though. I tried to use the first one (Back) that says: "Press, move left, release." Nothing happened when I tried to do that in Dolphin.
[15:41] <stuffandthings> that never did work on dolphin though, did it?
[15:42] <stuffandthings> the action is alt+left and that still worked the same
[15:42] <Elliria> No idea. I just saw it today and figured I'd try it to see if perhaps they had it enabled because Dolphin uses it, but it obviously doesn't.
[15:42] <Elliria> Oh, that one is cool. I didn't know about it.
[15:42] <Elliria> Kubuntu is ASTOUNDING in all the little things it can do to make your llife better.
[15:43] <stuffandthings> kde is so great
[15:43] <stuffandthings> yeah
[15:43] <Elliria> I have no idea why Ubuntu is so popular when it can't do most of what Kubuntu can.
[15:43] <stuffandthings> and then there are the addons
[15:43] <Elliria> You can use it for years and still discover new stuff in it.
[15:43] <stuffandthings> right?
[15:44] <stuffandthings> yep
[15:44] <stuffandthings> ive been using it since 2.something and it always seems head and shoulders above the other DEs
[15:44] <Elliria> Yeah, and the Desktop Effects, OMG, the Desktop Effects...
[15:44] <stuffandthings> though i like lxqt on super lite systems
[15:45] <stuffandthings> yep
[15:45] <stuffandthings> btw i just saw, like 10 min ago, that the cube is coming back
[15:45] <Elliria> I've used it since KDE 3 and loved it and then I abandoned it when KDE 4 came out. I switched to Ubuntu MATE as the closest possible replacement, but was never happy, so I came back with Kubuntu 22.04 LTS.
[15:46] <stuffandthings> https://pointieststick.com/2023/10/27/these-past-2-weeks-in-kde-wayland-color-management-the-desktop-cube-returns-and-optional-shadows-in-spectacle/
[15:46] <Elliria> Oh. I thought it was still here. I don't use it, but it's very cool.
[15:46] <stuffandthings> it was in 4
[15:46] <stuffandthings> 4.0 was very... lacking
[15:46] <Elliria> Wayland? Is Kubuntu 23.04 using Wayland?
[15:46] <stuffandthings> but by 4.7 or so it was getting good again
[15:46] <stuffandthings> not by default
[15:47] <stuffandthings> 23.10 isnt yet either
[15:47] <Elliria> It was slow and laggy for me, so I ran away. Then MATE started a new thing where they refuse to allow users to customize their own desktop themes and only give them a few hideous ones to choose from, so I ran away scrreaming.
[15:47] <stuffandthings> its available on the login screen but its still defaulted to x11
[15:47] <Elliria> Does it actually work?
[15:47] <stuffandthings> it does, there a few minor bugs here and there but its getting close
[15:48] <Elliria> So far, I've heard that there are lots of issues that people are having with Wayland, so I'm waiting.
[15:48] <stuffandthings> gnome is completely going themless
[15:48] <stuffandthings> *themeless
[15:48] <stuffandthings> mate did too?
[15:48] <stuffandthings> what a bummer, by the name gnome2 became mate, it was pretty decent
[15:49] <stuffandthings> *by the time
[15:49] <Elliria> Yeah, it's horrible. I've got a bookmark of a page where the developers talk about it and it's all about them and not us. It makes it easier for them to not allow us to decide how things look. This is not my planet.
[15:50] <stuffandthings> i miss a bit of skeuomorphism
[15:50] <stuffandthings> everything is too flat now
[15:50] <Elliria> Oh, yeah. With MATE, you have a choice of like 5 default themes. The end. There is no customization. If you happen to be incredible at the configuration files that create the themes and can figure out all the CSS classes that you need to know to make the magic happen, then you might be able to DIY, but it's so much work to figure out which classes control what that it's not worth the bother.
[15:50] <Elliria> Same here.  It's hideous.
[15:50] <stuffandthings> everything flat makes it take longer to spot things like buttons and scrollbars
[15:50] <Elliria> I get that they're trying to create a universally-understood set of icons that anyone anywhere in the world would recognize, but I need prettiness.
[15:51] <stuffandthings> drives me nuts
[15:51] <stuffandthings> you know what was always crazy about the theming in kde?
[15:52] <stuffandthings> its not just simple replacement of graphics, the themes do things
[15:52] <stuffandthings> like the beos theme, you can actually do the tab thing like beos
[15:53] <stuffandthings> it sucks that that theme got deleted, it was getting glitchy since kde4 because no one maintained it to work with newer kde versions
[15:53] <Elliria> Like, for instance, this is a small part of my current desktop that shows part of our chat here and my panel with its icons. Beware, I like magenta, so this will be quite overpoweringly PINK: https://imgur.com/a/HZ0C1IO
[15:54] <stuffandthings> very constrasty
[15:54] <Elliria> I had to download and manually use an icon set for the tray because all the default tray icons are flat.
[15:54] <Elliria> Horrible.
[15:54] <Elliria> I haven't tried the tab thing. Is that sort of like those snap-to-grid desktops?
[15:54] <stuffandthings> the problem with kde5 is that that theming for the taskbar is stored in plasma themes, which dont follow the icon theme
[15:54] <stuffandthings> on 6 they changed it for the better
[15:55] <stuffandthings> not exactly, if you google beos, youll see that the titlebar on a window is smaller than the window itself
[15:55] <Elliria> Oh, good. Anything they can do to make it easier at our end is always welcome. I had to wrestle with this one.
[15:55] <stuffandthings> if you maximized multiple windows, the tabs would go beside eachother
[15:56] <stuffandthings> or even if you just overlapped windows a bit
[15:57] <stuffandthings> i read nates blog about the changes they make to kde a lot, really feels like they are not working against the average user, most of the time
[15:57] <stuffandthings> much, much better than the gnome decs
[15:57] <Elliria> Interesting. I kind of like the look of the tabs, but where are all the window menus?
[15:57] <stuffandthings> *devs
[15:57] <stuffandthings> beos didnt have many menus but on kde the menus were still there as normal
[15:57] <Elliria> Oh, I'm not surprised. It would be hard to convince me that the devs code for us. I'm certain they code for themselves first and if we happen to like what they do, great. Heh.
[15:58] <Elliria> Well, I mean like File --> Save or Edit --> Preferences, etc.
[15:58] <stuffandthings> yeah, on kde theyre still there, but i remember beos having not many menus, i forget exactly how it was
[15:58] <stuffandthings> last time i used beos, had to be around 22 years ago
[15:58] <Elliria> A friend got me to try a desktop that only gives you access to menus by right-clicking the desktop. That drove me nuts, but some people love it.
[15:59] <Elliria> Beos might be fun to mess around with in a VM.
[15:59] <Elliria> I might even lasso my friend in on it since he likes trying stuff, too.
[15:59] <stuffandthings> its interesting its so different
[15:59] <stuffandthings> yeah, i dont like just rightclick on desktop
[15:59] <stuffandthings> for menu
[16:00] <Elliria> Yeah. I often have programs fully open, so it would be two clicks to get to the desktop and then do the right-click.
[16:00] <Elliria> I'm fond of the little K in the bottom left corner.
[16:01] <stuffandthings> even that is customizable, its so nice
[16:01] <Elliria> That's another thing Kubuntu got right. They offer you tiled desktops, etc., in case you don't like the default.
[16:01] <Elliria> I know, right?
[16:01] <stuffandthings> ive got a number of desktop tile addons that make it even better
[16:01] <stuffandthings> kde4 had one awesome feature thats missing
[16:01] <Elliria> I still need to figure out how to replace my trash icons on this. I currently have the ugly flat ones for that.
[16:01] <stuffandthings> you could tab any set of windows from any app
[16:01] <Elliria> What's that?
[16:02] <Elliria> Are you sure you can't in KDE 5?
[16:02] <stuffandthings> like how browser tabs work, but for every app
[16:02] <stuffandthings> pretty sure, like 95%
[16:02] <Elliria> Interesting.
[16:02] <stuffandthings> i hope im wrong
[16:02] <Elliria> Did it have a name so we can look it up?
[16:03] <Elliria> Nope. It's gone: https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/ph4het/tabbed_windows_in_plasma_5/
[16:03] <stuffandthings> i think they just called it windows tabbing
[16:03] <stuffandthings> came in kde4.4
[16:03] <stuffandthings> that and the cube are the only missing kde4 features i can think of
[16:04] <Elliria> I just worry that they'll get rid of the two desktop effects I can't live without. Heh.
[16:04] <stuffandthings> some grouping stuff with the taskbar too
[16:04] <stuffandthings> which ones?
[16:04] <stuffandthings> im pretty sure 6 isnt cutting any of those out
[16:04] <Elliria> I believe they're called Shatter and Magic Lamp. I've got to look.
[16:05] <stuffandthings> magic lamp, one of the only things that i like from apple :P
[16:05] <Elliria> If you've never used Shatter, buckle your seatbelt. You'll LOVE it!
[16:05] <stuffandthings> i have
[16:05] <Elliria> I need it. It's a sanity thing. Heh.
[16:05] <stuffandthings> have you heard of the burn-my-windows addons?
[16:05] <Elliria> No, but it sounds awesome already.
[16:05] <stuffandthings> https://store.kde.org/find?search=burn%20my%20windows
[16:06] <Elliria> NVIDIA drivers broke Shatter and Magic Lamp for many months on this computer, although they worked fine on my little laptop that didn't have an NVIDIA card. I was so sad. I have a relative who works at NVIDIA, so I filed a personal complaint. Heh. Not long afterwards, the devs fixed it. YAY!
[16:06] <stuffandthings> luuucky you
[16:06] <Elliria> OMG, so cool!
[16:06] <stuffandthings> lol
[16:07] <stuffandthings> ive got so many addons on here
[16:07] <Elliria> Oh, my, the Energize one!
[16:07] <stuffandthings> and i archive everything i get so i can use it in the future, if im net-less or something
[16:07] <Elliria> It would be absolutely awesome if it also made the Energize sound effect.
[16:07] <stuffandthings> yeah, energize looks nice
[16:08] <Elliria> Yes, same! And take screenshots or make text files or whatever with the names of the goodies.
[16:08] <stuffandthings> you could add the sound effect in the sound settings, i think
[16:08] <stuffandthings> like the sounds for minimize, maximize etc
[16:08] <stuffandthings> though kde5 cut back on those a bit, maybe
[16:08] <Elliria> I am so bookmarking that page. Thanks so much!
[16:08] <stuffandthings> im a data hoarder -_-
[16:09] <stuffandthings> no prob
[16:09] <Elliria> Same. Heh,
[16:09] <stuffandthings> ive lately bin on a old windows kick, trying to fill in all the versions ive been missing
[16:10] <Elliria> I think I'll leave Shatter on here and get Energize for my laptop.
[16:10] <Elliria> Do you have Windows 3.1?
[16:10] <Elliria> I remember that one, but don't think we still have a copy around here.
[16:10] <stuffandthings> ah, for 3.1, i not only have, i still have the original 5.25in disks too :P
[16:10] <Elliria> Although I've got a copy of DOS, though.
[16:10] <stuffandthings> my first pc, dos5+win3.1
[16:11] <stuffandthings> the disks, my 5.25% drive and my serial mouse are all thats left of that one
[16:11] <stuffandthings> *in drive
[16:11] <Elliria> I don't know which DOS we had, but my first computer was a KAYPRO4 (we called her the KAYPRO4-us-rex) that had two 5 1/4 inch disks - one to hold the OS and the other to hold your data. Very cool.
[16:12] <stuffandthings> oh man, that sounds like an ibm at almost
[16:12] <stuffandthings> no mouse?
[16:12] <stuffandthings> if no mouse, im guessing dos3
[16:13] <Elliria> No mouse.
[16:13] <Elliria> http://dunfield.classiccmp.org//kaypro/kaypro4a.jpg
[16:13] <stuffandthings> likely dos3 than
[16:13] <Elliria> It was very cool, though. It was portable and it even came with a modem in it.
[16:13] <stuffandthings> oh wow, maybe 1 or 2 for that
[16:14] <stuffandthings> i knew a guy who had something like that when i had my 386
[16:14] <Elliria> That keyboard clamps onto the front of it to protect the monitor and disk slots while traveling.
[16:14] <Elliria> It's HEAVY.
[16:14] <stuffandthings> maybe that was 8088 cpu or something
[16:14] <Elliria> It was so cool. And that's a serious clicker-keyboard, so I've always preferred those.
[16:14] <stuffandthings> oh a z80 cpu
[16:14] <stuffandthings> wow
[16:14] <Elliria> No idea. I no longer have it.
[16:15] <stuffandthings> my freind with the ibm at had a kb like that, those kb are now worth a dollar!
[16:15] <Elliria> It was a gift from a family member to tide me over while I was getting my first IBM computer.
[16:15] <stuffandthings> erm, i mean many dollars
[16:17] <stuffandthings> i wonder if that is emulated
[16:17] <Elliria> Yeah. I love the old IBM keyboards, but they no longer make them. Unicomp bought the IBM machines and makes keyboards from them, but made some changes to them. Apparently, my typing style is violent enough that I can destroy one of their keyboards in less than a year and at over $100 each, I decided they aren't worth it.  These last me for years.
[16:19] <stuffandthings> my currently dead desktop is some generic membrane kb, otherwise im on a laptop
[16:19] <Elliria> Hopefully you can resurrect the desktop.
[16:20] <stuffandthings> i need a new motherboard
[16:20] <stuffandthings> thats seems to be what died
[16:20] <stuffandthings> kinda ruled out the rest
[16:20] <stuffandthings> my 20tb stash is still on there but ive nowhere to put those drives right now
[16:23] <stuffandthings> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzosnPSETzk
[16:23] <stuffandthings> that point in the video talks about how the tabs work
[16:24] <Elliria> Ah, often when we need a new motherboard, it's not worth it, and you'd be better off doing a complete rebuild.
[16:24] <Elliria> I'll take those 20TB off your hands. Heh. OMG...
[16:25] <stuffandthings> it died like 3year ago, if it didnt, i would have had atleast 30 by now
[16:25] <stuffandthings> i wanted to keep it long term, its an ivybridge system
[16:25] <stuffandthings> so just about the fastest winxp machine
[16:25] <Elliria> Aw, I'm sorry.
[16:26] <Elliria> Still, it would be good to either replace that one part or rebuild it.
[16:26] <stuffandthings> around that time i also got p3 parts to build a win9x system
[16:26] <Elliria> Checking out your video.
[16:28] <Elliria> Gosh, this brings back so many memories. Back in those days, everything was changing so FAST and they were really dramatic differences. Nowadays, the changes seem to drag on and be quite small.
[16:28] <stuffandthings> yeah
[16:28] <stuffandthings> for sure
[16:28] <stuffandthings> a ten year old system still works out fine
[16:28] <stuffandthings> unless you want to play a new aaa game or something
[16:29] <stuffandthings> back then, a 1995 computer felt old compared to a 1997 one
[16:30] <Elliria> Ah, I see. The menu is beneath the tab.
[16:31] <stuffandthings> yeah, so it is
[16:31] <Elliria> Yes! Exactly! Nowadays it's not like that.
[16:31] <stuffandthings> couldnt remember for sure
[16:31] <stuffandthings> i also cant remember if beos did this, but older kde versions with the beos theme, would auto move the tabs when you over lap them
[16:32] <stuffandthings> if you combine all that with a maximize button and a menu on the top right corner, it just kind fits together really well
[16:33] <Elliria> Heh. I like how the guy is playing all those sound files at once.
[16:33] <stuffandthings> given that the tabs occupy the left and the "deskbar" occupies the right
[16:33] <stuffandthings> lol yeah
[16:34] <Elliria> Ah, you mean like combining various applications into one if you put the tabs near each other the way you can combine two instances of Firefox by dragging one tab onto the other?
[16:34] <stuffandthings> kinda
[16:35] <stuffandthings> but the windows are still separate
[16:35] <stuffandthings> if you move a window to where the tabs over lap, the tab just autoslides to the side on one of them
[16:36] <stuffandthings> so if you maximize 2 windows, you have size by side tabs plus the "deskbar" all on one row
[16:36] <Elliria> So although they're separate windows, they look like they're part of the same application, right?
[16:36] <Elliria> That could be interesting.
[16:36] <stuffandthings> but if they arent maximized, they take up less space than a taskbar, since there isnt one
[16:37] <Elliria> True.
[16:37] <stuffandthings> kinda, the kde4 tabs made it like it was one app
[16:37] <stuffandthings> the kde3.x beos theme did it like beaos
[16:37] <stuffandthings> *beos
[16:39] <Elliria> It's a shame they don't still offer it. One of the people on that Reddit page mentioned a very good point. LibreOffice doesn't offer good tab management, so having the option to forcibly tab it would be wonderful. It's so annoying to have to take a jaunt through the menu system to get at other windows when you have more than one document open.
[16:39] <stuffandthings> all this talk got me to start downing beos again
[16:39] <Elliria> Heh.
[16:40] <stuffandthings> you could still do it if you run compiz ontop of kde
[16:40] <stuffandthings> compiz has tabbing like that
[16:41] <Elliria> I might have to try that. Could I just use it for that or would it also change other things on my desktop?
[16:41] <stuffandthings> also there something on windows that does it too but i forge the name
[16:41] <stuffandthings> compiz is a window manager so it would have to be run in place of kwin
[16:42] <stuffandthings> so all your windows would be either kwin or compiz
[16:42] <stuffandthings> nowadays, compiz plays best with mate or unity
[16:43] <stuffandthings> it was decent under kde3, so running trinity might be an option
[16:43] <Elliria> I think everything that I use on Windows has tabs already, but it's been a while. I use it for work and have been out of work for a while, so my work machine is collecting dust at the moment.
[16:43] <stuffandthings> trinity is a fork of kde3
[16:43] <stuffandthings> i gave up on windows after 8
[16:43] <Elliria> Yeah, but Trinity isn't offered by Ubuntu as one of its flavors, so I decided not to go for that.
[16:44] <Elliria> I have to use the latest and greatest Windows on the work machine because that's what companies want you to have [sigh]. It's just a money-sink, in my opinion.
[16:44] <stuffandthings> theres a fork of kde4 also
[16:44] <stuffandthings> yeah, i hear that
[16:45] <stuffandthings> nice, trinity was still update, current ver from last sunday
[16:45] <stuffandthings> *updated
[16:46] <Elliria> Interesting. My next exploration in VirtualBox will be OMV.
[16:46] <stuffandthings> (my grammar might be fading due to sleep deprivation :P )
[16:46] <Elliria> Oh, I'm sorry! I don't mean to keep you awake! Go get your rest!
[16:47] <stuffandthings> aw yeah, there is a ppa for it
[16:47] <stuffandthings> its ok, im just gonna skip out on sleep today
[16:47] <Elliria> That's never a good idea!
[16:48] <Elliria> Although if it makes you feel any better, I only got 4 hours of sleep last night, so I feel your pain.
[16:48] <stuffandthings> i get mega bouts of insomnia sometimes, i just roll with it
[16:49] <stuffandthings> for months at a time its pretty normal sleep, then for months at a time, i could juts lay awake for 5h
[16:49] <Elliria> Same here lately, but hopefully it will be temporary.
[16:49] <stuffandthings> at some point that got really boring
[16:49] <Elliria> Yeah, I can't handle that. If I'm awake and thinking, I get out of bed. May as well do the day. Heh.
[16:49] <stuffandthings> yep
[16:50] <Elliria> Dolly Parton gets up earlier than most people and she says that as a result, she has always gotten a lot done.
[16:51] <stuffandthings> yep
[16:56] <stuffandthings> i might spin up an ubuntu build with trinity
[16:56] <Elliria> Interesting, although they don't come together, so you'd have to cobble it.
[16:57] <stuffandthings> i miss the ubuntu minimal isos they used to put out
[16:58] <stuffandthings> though i should be able to run the last one through cubic and make updated ones
[16:58] <Elliria> They've got them again in the development version.
[17:01] <Elliria> http://www.cdimages.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mini-iso/daily-live/current/
[17:01] <stuffandthings> baller!
[17:02] <Elliria> Heh.
[17:02] <stuffandthings> guess ill finally update my server if this one makes it to the release
[17:02] <Elliria> It's got high RAM requirements, though. High enough that someone in one of the Ubuntu mailing lists wasn't happy with it.
[17:02] <stuffandthings> thank you for bringing this to light!
[17:03] <stuffandthings> i wonder why
[17:03] <Elliria> Any time. It just got discussed at length in one of the mailing lists. Let me see if I can find the thread.
[17:05] <Elliria> It starts here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2023-November/311430.html
[17:05] <stuffandthings> cool, thanks
[17:05] <Elliria> If you keep clicking the next messages, you'll get to the part where they talk about the requirements.
[17:06] <Elliria> I think he's trying to do the installation on a pretty low-end machine.
[17:07] <stuffandthings> ah, i see
[17:08] <stuffandthings> i forget where the repos are for no longer supported versions
[17:08] <stuffandthings> i used to know
[17:09] <Elliria> Maybe herre? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
[17:10] <Elliria> I'm not sure if you can grab them from there, though.
[17:10] <Elliria> Nope.
[17:11] <Elliria> Aha! https://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/
[17:14] <stuffandthings> for the isos, but there was a way to modify the apt repo addresses so you could still pull stuff off of unsuported versions with apt
[17:15] <Elliria> I think you have to change sources.list to accomplish that, don't you?
[17:16] <stuffandthings> yep, just found out to what
[17:16] <stuffandthings> deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ CODENAME main restricted universe multiverse
[17:17] <stuffandthings> and CODENAME-updates main and such
[17:17] <Elliria> Interesting. Does that downgrade your system or just add the repo?
[17:19] <stuffandthings> i had to do it for someone once, to get them to be able to get deps for an unsupported version
[17:19] <stuffandthings> it just basically makes apt work again the same as if it were supported
[17:19] <stuffandthings> up to the last packages that were available for that version
[17:20] <stuffandthings> got disconnected there
[17:20] <stuffandthings> what is the last thing i sent, that went through?
[17:22] <Elliria> "and CODENAME-updates main and such"
[17:22] <Elliria> So, I think you're good, because you answered my question. Heh.
[17:28] <stuffandthings> oh, that was a bit back
[17:28] <stuffandthings> [13:17:58] <stuffandthings> i had to do it for someone once, to get them to be able to get deps for an unsupported version
[17:28] <stuffandthings> [13:18:14] <stuffandthings> it just basically makes apt work again the same as if it were supported
[17:28] <stuffandthings> [13:18:29] <stuffandthings> up to the last packages that were available for that version
[17:28] <stuffandthings> [13:19:23] <stuffandthings> i with at eol, ubuntu would release isos that were patched up to the final versions for that version
[17:28] <stuffandthings> [13:19:36] <stuffandthings> *wish
[17:29] <Elliria> You immediately answered it, though. Yep, I've seen those, too.
[17:29] <Elliria> I'm bouncing back and forth between this window and another one, so your vanishing act was seamless. Heh.
[17:29] <stuffandthings> heh nice
[17:30] <stuffandthings> im tempted to get an hdd to save repos for old versions
[17:31] <stuffandthings> thats one thing that i dont like about rolling release stuff, (not that ubuntu is rolling)
[17:31] <stuffandthings> but they share this problem, though ubuntu to a much lesser extent
[17:32] <stuffandthings> with an old os like windows </=7, you could have the install disc and the installer for a prog and you were good, if the netpocalypse happened
[17:33] <stuffandthings> now windows has multiple versions for 10/11 etc and something like ubuntu, well you go and install a deb you save, and it has so many other debs to get from the repo
[17:36] <Elliria> Yeah, and I think alll the installers (not just Windows) suffer from the after-the-fact updates that you need, so if you wanted to archive them, you'd want to grab it all and then make an archive.
[17:36] <stuffandthings> its kind of a nightmare for preservation
[17:40] <Elliria> Yeah. We've definitely gone downhill on that over the years. It was nicer to have things on diskett or CD or DVD back in the day.
[17:47] <stuffandthings> indeed
[17:48] <stuffandthings> but even if its over the net, i wonder if there is some better way to package it
[17:48] <stuffandthings> appimage gives me some hope
[17:48] <stuffandthings> flatpak feels like a bust to me, because most people just give you a flatpak link which triggers an install
[17:49] <Elliria> I think you can disassemble an ISO, add files to it, and reassemble it.
[17:49] <stuffandthings> if there is a way to save a .flatpak file from a flatpak ref, i dont know how
[17:49] <Elliria> Apparently this still works: https://askubuntu.com/questions/48535/how-to-customize-the-ubuntu-live-cd/49679#49679
[17:49] <stuffandthings> oh you can and cubic really helps with doing that
[17:50] <stuffandthings> though that still seems a trifle more impractical that just saving an iso and an exe from somewhere
[17:51] <Elliria> Thanks for reminding me about preservation. The only copy I have of the installation ISO is on my computer. I really ought to get another USB stick and pop it onto there.
[17:52] <stuffandthings> yeah, definitely a good idea
[18:03] <stuffandthings> oh yeah, do you know about ventoy?
[18:05] <Elliria> Yep. It sounds good.
[18:06] <Elliria> Apparently you grab it, put it onto a USB stick, copy ISO files onto the USB stick with it, then boot with it and pick an ISO and press Enter. Boom!
[18:06] <stuffandthings> its awesome
[18:06] <stuffandthings> you dont need to use it to actually copy the isos after the fact
[18:06] <Elliria> I haven't tried it, but should use that on the USB stick when it comes.
[18:06] <stuffandthings> you just copy the isos via drag and drop like normally storing them on a usb
[18:07] <stuffandthings> yep
[18:08] <Elliria> Very cool.
[18:09] <stuffandthings> and upgrading it doesnt require recopying the isos
[18:09] <Elliria> How do you upgrade it?
[18:12] <stuffandthings> so theres a basic gui, (even on the linux one!) that has a few simple options to format the usb, it makes a boot partition and a storage partition.
[18:12] <stuffandthings> the storage one remains hidden on most things
[18:13] <stuffandthings> so you just copy isos to the storage one
[18:13] <Elliria> Cool. I found this for upgrading it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNwAOvZS3js
[18:13] <stuffandthings> when theres a new ventoy, you run the gui again, hit upgrade, it modifies the boot partition and its done
[18:14] <stuffandthings> yeah, thats pretty much it
[18:14] <stuffandthings> that same little gui is on linux too, no different
[18:15] <stuffandthings> you dont have to install anything to run it
[18:15] <stuffandthings> just dl the linux  one, unzip it and run the executable
[18:16] <Elliria> I added it to the notes in my personal wiki where I had the Ventoy stuff. Thanks!
[18:16] <stuffandthings> no prob
[18:17] <Elliria> Would that work on an SSD just as well as it would on a USB stick? I like to buy external drives to back up my computer and it occurs to me that those are much bigger, so maybe that would be a better place to keep ISOs.
[18:18] <stuffandthings> pretty sure it works on an ssd/hdd too
[18:18] <stuffandthings> ill try on a vm
[18:19] <Elliria> Their FAQ says you can. Yay! when theres a new ventoy, you run the gui again, hit upgrade, it modifies the boot partition and its done
[18:19] <stuffandthings> yep
[18:19] <stuffandthings> that about it
[18:19] <Elliria> Oops. Heh, that's your words. Hang on. Yes !    You can install Ventoy to USB drive, Removable HD, SD Card, SATA HDD, SSD, NVMe ...
[18:19] <Elliria> Strange that it didn't copy.
[18:20] <stuffandthings> lol
[18:20] <stuffandthings> you can boot vhd files oto
[18:20] <stuffandthings> *too
[18:20] <stuffandthings> though that takes a bit more work
[18:20] <Elliria> Added that to my notes, too. Heh.
[18:21] <Elliria> What are vhd files?
[18:21] <stuffandthings> more or less microsofts virtual hard drive image
[18:21] <Elliria> Interesting. I had never heard of those.
[18:21] <stuffandthings> like when you make a vm on vbox, in the vm dir, theres a virtual hard disk image
[18:22] <stuffandthings> vhd is what microsoft virtual pc makes
[18:22] <Elliria> Although nowadays everyone is offering ISO files.
[18:22] <stuffandthings> but vhds are not read only
[18:22] <stuffandthings> i think vbox can make them too
[18:22] <Elliria> Interesting. So you can edit them?
[18:22] <stuffandthings> yeah, so if you had a win7 vhd, you could boot it and make changes that last
[18:23] <Elliria> Yep, it looks like it can.
[18:23] <Elliria> My VMs are .vdi format.
[18:23] <stuffandthings> im pretty sure you could wip up a vbox vm right now and select vhd as the hdd format
[18:25] <stuffandthings> yep, you can
[18:25] <stuffandthings> so if you make a vbox vm, make the hdd in vhd mode, install windows on it, that vhd should be bootable
[18:26] <stuffandthings> as long as you clean the drivers
[18:26] <stuffandthings> because back in the day, atleast with xp, if you took an hdd out and put it in another computer, it would crash on boot
[18:26] <stuffandthings> unless its the same chipset
[18:27] <stuffandthings> you had to take all the drivers off
[18:27] <Elliria> It offers to make a Virtual Hard Disk and I always accept that, but it creates those .vdi files.
[18:28] <stuffandthings> theres a button like "expert mode" or something at the bottom
[18:28] <Elliria> Ah, that would probably be it. I'm far from expert. Heh.
[18:28] <Elliria> I just bumble along in VirtualBox.
[18:29] <stuffandthings> what vbox version are you on?
[18:29] <Elliria> 7.0
[18:29] <stuffandthings> ok, one sec, ill install that on a vm
[18:30] <stuffandthings> its been a while since i 'vm-cepted'
[18:32] <stuffandthings> i once took a w7 vm, saved state, put that saved state setup in a vm, repeat, then every time i launched the vm, there was another waiting and ready inside of it
[18:32] <Elliria> Yep. In expert mode, you can do it.
[18:33] <stuffandthings> keep an eye out for that button, its in some other places in vbox
[18:37] <Elliria> It's at the beginning when you create a new VM. It offers VDI, VHD, VMDK, HDD, QCOW, and QED in the hardware section.
[18:37] <stuffandthings> qcow, why does that ring a bell
[18:38] <stuffandthings> qemu v-disk
[18:38] <Elliria> It says" (QEMU Copy-On-Write)" next to that.
[18:38] <Elliria> Yep.
[18:38] <stuffandthings> unless i was thinking of unicows
[18:39] <Elliria> And QED says "(Qemu enhanced disk)" next to it.
[18:39] <stuffandthings> oh yeah, i just had to get unicows the other day
[18:39] <stuffandthings> ms also has an enhanced version of theirs vhdx, xvhd, or something
[18:40] <stuffandthings> i forget, but i assume its for hyper-v
[18:40] <Elliria> Which will surely be added to the list at some point.
[18:41] <stuffandthings> maybem ms made the spec available
[18:41] <stuffandthings> *maybe
[18:41] <stuffandthings> "VHDX was added in Hyper-V in Windows Server 2012 to add larger storage capacity, data corruption protection, and optimizations to prevent performance degradation on large-sector physical disks"
[18:42] <Elliria> That sounds like a niche use-case, so maybe they won't add it.
[18:45] <Elliria> Well, it's been a blast chatting with you, but I've got to go. The piper needs to be paid after all.  I will, too. See you then!


[10:17] <kaddi> hi, i just installed 17.10.. for some reason firefox thinks it's a great idea to open all text files in okular? I've already set kate as the app to open .txt files with, but that had no effect. How can I fix this
[13:45] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[13:57] <kaddi> howdy :)
[13:59] <kaddi> maybe you can help me? :D I recently installed 17.10 and am using firefox.. Now when I download a text file and click on it in the download list of firefox, it is opened in okular.. I'd much prefer it to open in Kate.. However I don't know where to configure that.. I did set the default action for .txt files to be "open in kate" in firefox, however the files are still downloaded and when I click them, they're openen in okular
[14:04] <BluesKaj> kaddi, best to look in your /home/user/Downloads file rather than FF..browsers default setting is to place downloeded files there
[14:05] <kaddi> yes, from the Downloads folder, the files are correctly opened with kate.. But I'd like to avoid having to open dolphin, navigate to Downloads and laucnh the file from there, if possible
[14:06] <kaddi> i was kinda hoping there'd be a way to tell firefox to respect default apps from kde or something like that
[14:16] <BluesKaj> kaddi, normally I just look in the browser downloads section and use the "open containing folder" option. It tshould use the correct app to open from there
[14:16] <kaddi> meh, ok
[14:17] <BluesKaj> TBH I haven't ued FF for a while
[14:17] <kaddi> what do you use?
[14:17] <kaddi> I might be open to alternatives if FF isn't compatible with kde :p
[14:17] <BluesKaj> chrome
[14:18] <kaddi> hmm, ok.. I'll check it out and that works well?
[14:19] <BluesKaj> overall it does work well, yes
[14:19] <kaddi> I'll try my look over in #firefox and if that doesn't fix it, I'll look into switching. it's seriously hindering my workflow unfortunately (only have a touchpad, right-clicks are a horror to be avoided ;))
[14:20] <BluesKaj> kaddi, get a mouse , touchpads work for some users...I always hated it
[14:21] <kaddi> i hate it too.. which is why I mostly try to minimise mouse action.. lots of command line instead
[14:22] <kaddi> (also if I could get firefox to not append blank-parentesis-number-parenthesis to a filename if it already exists, that wold make command line less of a pain to use too :p)
[14:58] <hannibalstal> hello there
[17:11] <xorpad> how can i permentantly set the desktop resolution of kubuntu xenial running wayland(chroot on chromebook)
[17:11] <xorpad> ?
[17:11] <xorpad> I've been messing with xrandr but either i'm a total idiot or it's not working
[17:12] <xorpad> also since wayland... maybe xrandr is only x11... I dunno
[17:13] <xorpad> I'm a total noob to linux userspace stuff
[17:13] <xorpad> I'm usually in lxde with minimal or default settings on stable release but I want to get this kde plasma xenial chroot working, using crouton for the chroot and hardware abstraction
[17:14] <xorpad> When I created the chroot I was at 1366x768, and it took that resolution and no other, and only offers 1366x768, but previous installtion was done with chromebook in 1536x864 which is native resoliution, and the kde xenial system took that resoultion, I just don't want to delete my whole install just to get better resoultion
[18:16] <DrGrov> Hello
[18:16] <DrGrov> Is it safe to use to use a Kubuntu backports PPA in 16.04 to get the latest KDE for 16.04?
[18:18] <kaddi> I've had bad experience with the backport (but the same issues also appeared when I tried to upgrade)
[18:18] <DrGrov> It is this backport I am referring to, ppa:kubuntu-ppa/backports
[18:19] <DrGrov> kaddi: I see. Are you running 16.04?
[18:19] <kaddi> not anymore.. I did a clean install of 17.10 last week
[18:19] <kaddi> the attempted upgrade messed it up so bad, nothing worked anymore *whistle*
[18:19] <DrGrov> kaddi: Ok, and you were not affected with the kernel bug?
[18:20] <kaddi> no, I have a samsung.. but I did check extensively beforehand and checked here, where some people said it /shouldn't/ affect me
[18:20] <kaddi> afaik it's mostly affecting lenovos
[18:21] <DrGrov> Ok, it affected my stationary computer though
[18:21] <DrGrov> Couldn't get a bootloader installed properly
[18:21] <DrGrov> But, running 16.04 for the time being until that is sorted out
[18:21] <DrGrov> Kind of prefer having a LTS instead of bleeding edge
[18:21] <kaddi> bootloader was a bit weird, but bootloader is installed on the drive, normally
[18:21] <kaddi> not the bios
[18:22] <DrGrov> Happy to hear it worked out
[18:22] <kaddi> I ran boot-repair after installing 17.10 and it's been working fine for me now
[18:22] <DrGrov> I couldn't get anywhere past the bootloader failure in the installation process
[18:22] <kaddi> but yeah, I also installed linux on the samsung when they stilled had the uefi death bug
[18:23] <DrGrov> But I am happy with 16.04, really as long as it works I am happy these days
[18:23] <kaddi> so I like taking risks ;)
[18:23] <kaddi> 16.04 served me well for the last two years
[18:23] <kaddi> I've hardly had any complaints.. it just runs and runs and runs
[18:23] <DrGrov> I can say that after 30 years with computers I am way past taking any big risks anymore. Getting lazy
[18:23] <kaddi> new kde is pretty neat though.. I'm happy to have upgrade..
[18:24] <DrGrov> That is why I was planning to use the backports to get it in 16.04
[18:24] <kaddi> if you 16.10 is a clean isntall, I'd just try the backport.. worst case scenario you'll need to revert (as long as you have internet that boils down to removing the repository and upgrading iirc)
[18:25] <DrGrov> Yeah, I do have stable internet so that is no worries
[18:25] <kaddi> yeah i had some issues getting the wifi going when the gui wouldn't come up.. :p But I managed in the end :)
[18:27] <DrGrov> That is great to hear :)
[18:28] <kaddi> TBH though I thought they'd have fixed the bug by now.. When I looked it up a week ago it already said fix released: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1734147
[18:30] <DrGrov> I installed 17.10 about 3 or 4 days ago
[18:30] <DrGrov> But I will just wait and see what happens
[18:30] <DrGrov> Can live perfectly fine with 16.04, does not really matter for me as long as it just works
[18:30] <kaddi> yeah, the iso links are also still 'disabled'
[18:35] <DrGrov> Ok, good to know.
[18:35] <DrGrov> Well, I am off. Have a great evening
[18:35] <kaddi> you too:)