[00:07] <penguin42> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-24907190       hmm
[00:07] <penguin42> they need to find a cheaper way to remove the cones
[00:10] <bigcalm> Snipers
[00:10] <penguin42> on the revellers or the cone?
[00:10] <bigcalm> ;)
[00:13] <bigcalm> I've set log slow queries to 1 second and nothing is showing up in the log. Which is a good thing?
[00:13] <bigcalm> Time to move on to profiling I guess
[00:18] <bigcalm> Oh, might try OPTIMIZE TABLE foo 1st
[00:22] <BigRedS> also, mysqltuner.pl since your daemon's probably inefficently-configured out of the box
[00:23] <bigcalm> It's with a 3rd party host. I don't get to tinker with mysql
[00:24] <BigRedS> ah
[00:32] <bigcalm> Oh, sleepy time
[00:32] <bigcalm> Toodles
[01:54] <diddledan> yawwn
[08:13] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:47] <Myrtti> meh
[08:48] <Myrtti> stupid USB cables
[09:13] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:14] <MooDoo> morning
[09:14] <bigcalm> How does the new day greet you, MooDoo?
[09:15] <MooDoo> bigcalm: it's going ok thanks, playing around with photoshop at the moment.
[09:15] <bigcalm> Good show :)
[09:18] <SuperMatt> mornin guys
[09:19] <MooDoo> morning
[09:19] <bigcalm> Morning
[09:22] <mungbean> friend of mine has been invited for a dragons den style interview for the y combinator startup accelerator that produced dropbox, disqus, etc. exciting for her
[09:22] <mungbean> get flown to san fran for a 10 minute Q&A
[09:24] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:25] <MooDoo> morning
[09:25] <bashrc> morning
[09:25] <brobostigon> morning bashrc and MooDoo
[09:26] <SuperMatt> MooDoo: you're not in the other channel!
[09:26] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: I know I only just logged back into this one.
[09:27] <SuperMatt> oh right
[09:27] <MooDoo> I am now
[09:37] <DJones> Ah well, there goes another bitcoin exchange
[09:43] <bigcalm> I wonder if big banks are paying crackers to deface bitcoin
[09:43] <mungbean> or nsa
[09:46] <awilkins> It was inevitable with the sudden meteoric rise of it's value
[09:46] <awilkins> Security is only secure as long as the cost to crack it is more than the gain from doing so
[09:47] <diplo> Morning all
[09:47] <awilkins> That said, I bet we all wish we'd bought into it when it was less than a dollar a coin :)
[09:51] <bashrc> bitcoin is very volatile.  There have bee surges and crashes in its relative value
[09:52] <DJones> I still can't see how it has "value" in that coins can be mined, you don't actually need to hand over a real world currency to get them (as long as you've got the hardware, time & patience). As far as I know, its not backed by any traditional currency/reserve, so any value only seems to be in what people are willing to pay for them when they don't mine them themselves
[09:53] <ali1234> DJones: which exchange?
[09:54] <bashrc> just replace "bitcoin" with "pounds" or "dollars" or any other currency.  The "value" is really just a shared agreement between the users of the currency
[09:54] <DJones> Give me a sec to find the link
[09:54] <DJones> ali1234: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/12/bitcoin_gbl_hong_kong_collapse/
[09:55] <ali1234> never heard of it
[09:57] <awilkins> DJones, fiat currency has no value other than the confidence people have in it
[09:57] <DJones> bashrc: Yeah, but a lot of traditional currencies are backed by gold reserves etc, or against other currencies, thats the thing that bitcoin doesn't have (as far as I know).  But that could just be something I've not read/heard, it might well be backed by the something
[09:57] <ali1234> false
[09:57] <awilkins> Even currency that's based on gold reserves is a bit nebulous - the only special property gold has is rarity
[09:58] <ali1234> nobody still uses the gold standard
[09:58] <DJones> awilkins: Thats the point I was trying to make, its confidence in it and therefore what people are prepared to pay
[09:58] <bashrc> bitcoin is really backed by the solidity of the encryption algorithms and block chain.  without that it would lose value rapidly
[09:58] <DJones> ali1234: Not as such, but that was what the currency was based on originally
[10:01] <awilkins> Bitcoin is also based on rarity but a kind of rarity that is more absolute than gold, which is based on geography
[10:02] <bashrc> there is less confidence in gold, because historically there was a multiple spending problem with gold based currency
[11:19] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:24] <brobostigon> any legal brains around, that know about how privacy laws apply to the welfare reform act 2012. please.
[11:25] <diddledan> brobostigon: that sounds like 1) a can of worms, and 2) really intriguing
[11:25] <penguin42> wow that's a bit of a specialised question!
[11:26] <brobostigon> diddledan: a can of worms? and yes definatly intriguing.
[11:27] <diddledan> brobostigon: can of worms in that once you open it, you get worms everywhere
[11:27] <brobostigon> diddledan: possibly, yes.
[11:28] <penguin42> brobostigon: So erm, I can't see why there would be any relationship between them? I mean which privacy laws? All the data-protection ones are 'except for use of upholding the law' (not sure the wording) but basically it means that they can find out whatevers needed to make sure you're not cheating on claimed welfare
[11:31] <brobostigon> penguin42: very specifically, as to if within section 6d paragraph 3c of the welfare reform act, maintaining an online presence, means that only the governments own systems that applies to, ,and then as that seems to be the only accepted option within the universal jobmatch toolkit, that it is valid for someone to give the dwp to there universal jobmatch account and or not, and if that opening of said account to the dwp, is breach of data ...
[11:31] <brobostigon> ... protection and you own right to privacy.
[11:33] <diddledan> o_O
[11:34] <brobostigon> chapter 1 also.
[11:34] <diddledan> why would it be breach of data protection if you consciously make the decision to link your jobmatch account with the dwp?
[11:34] <ali1234> you don't have a choice
[11:34] <ali1234> if you don't link it they try to sanction you
[11:34] <diddledan> oic
[11:35] <brobostigon> diddledan: my meaning, is, is it valid for me to not open it up to them, yo maintain my own privacy.
[11:35] <diddledan> don't have a jobmatch account in the first place?
[11:35] <diddledan> what exactly is a jobmatch account anyway?
[11:35]  * diddledan googles
[11:35] <brobostigon> as said welfare reform act, only specifies an online presence, not specifically uja.
[11:36] <ali1234> diddledan: jobmatch is a jobs website run by monster for the dwp
[11:36] <ali1234> it's terrible and full of fake jobs
[11:38] <brobostigon> yep.
[11:39] <brobostigon> as far as my interpretation goes, it is optional, otherwise it would have it open as standard.
[11:39] <brobostigon> chapter1 section 6d paragraph 3
[11:39]  * penguin42 suspects it would be hard to claim that giving DWP access to a system that they provide to help in the provision of finding employment and in terms of them policing a benefit they provide; but IANAL
[11:39] <diddledan> http://universaljobmatch.eu/en/what-should-i-do#do-not-sign
[11:42] <brobostigon> that makes it quite clear, and confirms what i susepcted. thank you diddledan
[11:43] <diddledan> from the dwp themselves: https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/help/help.aspx?k=/inline#dwp
[11:43] <diddledan> the first .eu site I linked is run by solfed.org.uk the solidarity federation
[11:44] <brobostigon> i am not familier with?
[11:45] <brobostigon> highly recommended, thats somewhat ambiguous, but doesnt specify definate requirement to do so.
[11:46] <DJones> brobostigon: When I was in that position, it was actually easy to give access because then I didn't have to write everything down as a record of having been looking for jobs
[11:48] <brobostigon> DJones: i am not arguing about easyness of it, what i do argue though, is i would rather give them paper notes and i choose what information to give them,
[11:48] <mungbean> what is jobmatch?
[11:48] <brobostigon> see above for an explanation mungbean
[11:48] <mungbean> iddledan: jobmatch is a jobs website run by monster for the dwp
[11:49] <mungbean> missed that line, ta
[11:49] <brobostigon> :)
[11:52] <brobostigon> so in practice, within 'chapter1 section 6d paragraph 3 of the welfare reform act' maintaining an online profile, would in practice apply to ujm/jobserve etc, whatever it happens to be.inclusive of having a uja, but closed.
[11:54]  * diddledan likes the new nick he's been assigned by mungbean 's copy+paste :-p
[11:55] <diddledan> plop a P on the beginning please, bob, and make it PiddleDan. Because my bladder is fun.
[11:55] <MartijnVdS> PiddlePan
[11:55] <diddledan> lol
[11:56] <diddledan> that makes me sound like someone who didn't want to get old. who also wets themself
[11:59] <GentileBen> Oh my god http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2502193/Theresa-May-stuns-bold-fashion-statement-denying-shes-new-Cara-Delevigne.html
[11:59] <GentileBen> Theresa May in a strapless dress.
[11:59] <GentileBen> The eyes, they weren't made for this!
[12:01] <diddledan> >.<
[12:01] <diddledan> it hurts!
[12:02] <brobostigon> ok, thank you for your help boys and girls.
[12:03] <mungbean> i only see tea and kittens
[12:03] <mungbean> time for me to choose a new nick actually
[12:20] <bigcalm> AlanBell: thanks for the xhprof suggestion. Have it running against a legacy project and it makes for horrible viewing :)
[12:20] <mgdm> heh
[12:21] <mgdm> bigcalm: are you using the new xhgui thing, or the old 'orrible one?
[12:21] <bigcalm> mgdm: the one in https://github.com/preinheimer/xhprof
[12:22] <mgdm> bigcalm: that'll work fine but there's a nicer, newer UI if you fancy it: http://techportal.inviqa.com/2013/10/01/profiling-php-applications-with-xhgui/
[12:23] <bigcalm> mgdm: ta, I'll have a look tonight. We have some form of profiling working, so I have to move on to the next ticket now :(
[12:23] <mgdm> Yeah, I can understand that
[12:24] <mgdm> AlanBell: That link above there might be of interest
[12:27] <bigcalm> From a quick look at the graph output, I have some time to spend with strtotime
[12:27] <mgdm> yes
[12:27] <mgdm> that's Not Quick
[12:27] <mungbean> david dimbleby just got a chavvy tattoo :-|
[12:28]  * penguin42 wonders why G+ thinks I might like the 'Ubuntu Oregon' community
[12:28] <davmor2> mungbean: why would you Tattoo Chavvy on yourself when you could have an awesome Dragon :D
[12:29] <mgdm> mungbean: tramp stamp?
[12:29] <davmor2> penguin42: the word ubuntu
[12:29] <penguin42> davmor2: Well yeh but it hasn't suggested all the ubuntu stuff
[12:29] <mungbean> a scorpion , which is "also his star sign" whatever that means
[12:29] <mungbean> sort of thing chavs would do
[12:30] <davmor2> penguin42: someone in your circles has connected to it or to someone in that group
[12:31] <davmor2> mungbean: the fact you know what chavs do makes me wonder if you are a chav :P
[12:42] <penguin42> odd, Fedex have 3 options for email format for tracking; text,html, wireless
[12:42] <diddledan> penguin42: wireless email ftw
[12:43] <diddledan> penguin42: I'm assuming that is audio with hisses and crackles and fading in and out
[12:43] <DJones> Wireless just means a pidgeon flies overhead and poops on your head 10 minutes before they deliver
[12:46] <penguin42> diddledan: Yes, may....it's j..... normal...email...bi...miss.ng
[12:55] <mungbean> what the heck http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/10442375/Dozens-executed-in-North-Korea-for-watching-foreign-films.html
[12:55] <mungbean> i wonder how much of this is actually true
[12:58] <penguin42> mungbean: Very difficult to verify anything
[12:59] <mungbean> very difficult to believe too
[13:06] <penguin42> mungbean: Yeh, I mean if the story was about the taleban shooting people for watching foreign films you wouldn't be as surprised
[13:09] <mungbean> i find it hard to believe that after the execution for trivial matters then the "sources" would blab about seeing the bodies etc etc
[13:10] <davmor2> mungbean, penguin42: I can believe it for the bibles.  Not the shows
[13:11] <mungbean> its easy to plant a bible on someone you don't like
[13:11] <mungbean> wasn't one of them the ex-girlfriend of kim jong?
[13:11] <MartijnVdS> yeah, I'd consider that a crime too
[13:11] <popey> http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2013/08/29/2013082901412.html
[13:13] <mungbean> popey: you did a risky search there
[13:13] <popey> I didn't.
[13:14] <mungbean> "kim jongs girlfriend"
[13:14] <popey> nope
[13:14] <GentileBen> Didn't he kill his ex?
[13:14] <davmor2> mungbean: only reason I say that is that when the UK ruled Hong Kong it was the smuggling path for bibles into to china where you could be executed for reading or owning a bible but china "opened" up a bit :)
[13:14]  * popey considers lunch
[13:14] <GentileBen> We didn't rule - we governed.
[13:15] <MartijnVdS> popey: what kind?
[13:15] <mungbean> The source added that all of the families of the executed appear to have been sent to prison camps under North Korea's barbaric principle of guilt by association
[13:15] <davmor2> GentileBen: thanks that's the word I couldn't think of
[13:18] <GentileBen> Kim's wife is pretty evil.
[13:19] <GentileBen> IIRC she sang the song,  "Excellent Horse-Like Lady".
[13:20] <GentileBen> Ah wait no she was one of the women executed by Kim.
[13:20] <GentileBen> (The writer of that song.)
[13:38] <dwatkins> That entire country scares me for many reasons.
[13:38] <bashrc> I'm not a supporter of North Korean prison camps but the west also has its issues with guilt by association
[13:41] <mungbean> i think the media also likes to portray NK as an ogre
[13:41] <mungbean> there must always be a monster that is worse than evry other country
[13:41] <dwatkins> The current monster is fear.
[13:41] <dwatkins> Let's have a war against fear.
[13:42] <MartijnVdS> but, fear is the mind kiler!
[13:42] <MartijnVdS> +l
[13:42] <mungbean> noideeeppp!
[13:42] <dwatkins> We all know what fear leads to, yes.
[13:42] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: Muad'dib*
[13:42] <dwatkins> ...or was that anger?
[13:42] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
[13:42] <mungbean> fear->anger->hate->dark side
[13:42] <penguin42> dwatkins: Yes, over eating
[13:42] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, I'm talking about Star Wars, not Dune ;)
[13:43] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: They both take place on a sandy planet
[13:43] <mungbean> star wars has les phallic symbols
[13:43] <GentileBen> bashrc, America bombs people due to association.
[13:43] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Who's to say that Arrakis isn't Tatooine?
[13:43] <GentileBen> bashrc, the US bombs wedding parties because on terrorist is there - hundreds of guests die.
[13:43] <mungbean> citation needed
[13:44] <GentileBen> mungbean, North Korea is pretty bad, but no worse than what's happening in Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Kazakhstan, etc.
[13:44] <GentileBen> All Western allies.
[13:44] <bashrc> GentileBen: Obama has a "kill list" which is believed to be primarily compiled from the assumption of guilt by association
[13:44] <GentileBen> The US has redefined "militant" to mean "any male of combatant age in the vicinity of the blast radius".
[13:45] <GentileBen> So when they count up bodies and find dead men, they define those as militants - not civilians.
[13:46] <GentileBen> “Let us remember that the terrorists we are after target civilians, and the death toll from their acts of terrorism against Muslims dwarfs any estimate of civilian casualties from drone strikes," <-- Obama is right about that though.
[13:46] <penguin42> GentileBen: I'd generally assumed most of those were screwups because either their 'intelligence' was too stupid or their missiles too stupid
[13:46] <mungbean> remember when we used to get visitors to this chan who asked techniacl questions?
[13:46] <ali1234> mungbean: how can you say star wars has [fewer] phallic symbols than dune?
[13:46] <GentileBen> The US has killed ~700 civilians through drone strikes. Muslim terrorists have killed probably 100x that.
[13:46] <mungbean> ali1234: because the willies^H^H^H^H^H^ worms in dune
[13:46] <GentileBen> mungbean, yes, let's go back to discussing Star Wars.
[13:46] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: Star Destroyers.
[13:46] <BigRedS> GentileBen: many of those 'drone strikes' are from aircraft not apparently behaving like drones.
[13:46] <GentileBen> I've never seen Star Wars.
[13:47] <ali1234> mungbean: but light sabres...
[13:47] <GentileBen> BigRedS are you implying they're from UFOs?!
[13:47] <mungbean> light sabres -> swords -> willies
[13:47] <GentileBen> All of Star Wars is gay, not phallic.
[13:47] <ali1234> dune might win on size but star wars wins on numbers and general obsession
[13:47] <penguin42> talking of which, I'll refrain from posting the link to the 'over sensitivity' of MSs new Kinect system
[13:47] <GentileBen> penguin42 no, link to it.
[13:48] <BigRedS> GentileBen: no, just that a major feature of a drone is that you don't hear it, and because they're unmanned they can go out alone
[13:48] <penguin42> GentileBen: I'm not sure it meets the CoC - I mean it's problem isn't related to detecting light sabres
[13:48] <ali1234> also, if you want technical questions, I have one: http://stackoverflow.com/q/19930236/1001513
[13:48] <GentileBen> penguin42, I demand you link to it at once.
[13:48]  * penguin42 shakes with fear
[13:48]  * GentileBen bangs fist on table
[13:49] <diddledan> careful, penguin42 , GentileBen might put his foot down with a firm hand
[13:49] <diddledan> I love mixing metaphores
[13:50] <MartijnVdS> metaphoresis
[13:50] <mungbean> mixamotosis
[13:50] <diddledan> \o/
[13:50] <diddledan> mixy ftw
[13:51] <mungbean> sir mixalot
[13:54] <GentileBen> "Craig Cobb, a white supremacist who wants to ban all blacks from a small North Dakotan town discovers that he has African ancestry " lol
[13:54] <GentileBen> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10442971/White-supremacist-discovers-he-is-part-black.html
[13:55] <ali1234> life imitates art
[13:57] <dwatkins> What's worse is that someone is attacking cyclists in Edinburgh: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-24912111
[13:57] <mungbean> with poo?
[13:57] <MartijnVdS> with ropes
[13:57] <dwatkins> well, targetting them by tying ropes across the path
[13:57] <GentileBen> The poo one is different.
[13:57] <GentileBen> Well let's be honest, about 20% of cyclists are dumb as hell.
[13:57] <MartijnVdS> we sometimes get those as well
[13:57] <dwatkins> as for the white supremecist, all this is moot anyway, since we're all descended from people who originated in Africa and were black.
[13:57] <MartijnVdS> they usually get caught in 2-3 days
[13:57] <mungbean>  thats lower than the rest of the population
[13:58] <mungbean> which is around 49%
[13:58] <GentileBen> They don't stop for red lights, don't slow down to let cars pass, don't -look- before swerving, etc.
[13:58] <dwatkins> My lights are pretty bright.
[13:58] <mungbean> or 97% if you ask me
[13:58] <dwatkins> Cyclists that don't stop for lights give us a bad name.
[13:58] <MartijnVdS> also, signalling turns
[13:58] <GentileBen> mungbean, I thought #ubuntu-uk would be full of cycling fundamentalists which is why I said 20%.
[13:58] <GentileBen> It's about 90% of all road-travelling cyclists.
[13:58] <dwatkins> I always signal
[13:58] <dwatkins> hells, I've considered making light-up gloves
[13:58] <mungbean> it should be an even cross sextion of society
[13:58] <GentileBen> The majority of people who can cycle don't cycle to work.
[13:58] <MartijnVdS> so do I, but people who don't give others a bad name
[13:59] <dwatkins> indeed, MartijnVdS, damn them to hades etc.
[13:59] <GentileBen> I've seen people with flash lights on their foreheads lol.
[13:59] <mungbean> i wouldn't cycle in london because i want to stay alive for my family
[13:59] <GentileBen> Look, it's not even the helmet thing.
[13:59] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: don't you have a good life insurance policy?
[13:59] <GentileBen> It's that most road-faring cyclists are dumb as hell.
[13:59] <GentileBen> The ones who cycle on pavements are, ironically, the better ones.
[14:00] <mungbean> MartijnVdS: i do, but selfishly i quite like seeing my family too
[14:00] <mungbean> and what if i was just maimed?
[14:00] <GentileBen> And the crazy thing?  They fail at hipsery in that case.
[14:03] <dwatkins> hipstery, perhaps.
[14:04] <GentileBen> http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l73jrrTOF01qasi66o1_500.jpg
[14:04] <mungbean> i've seen one
[14:04] <GentileBen> Too late.
[14:04] <mgdm> there's a guy here who will cycle past my flat on either a  penny farthing or a unicycle from time to time
[14:04] <mgdm> yes, he's a hipster
[14:04] <mungbean> lol
[14:04] <dwatkins> GentileBen: that's the one
[14:04] <mungbean> apple shop : tick
[14:04] <mungbean> penny farthing : ticl
[14:04] <GentileBen> http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lh8czn3zv51qz83w8o1_500.jpg lol
[14:04] <mungbean> moelskin notepad : tick
[14:04] <GentileBen> Either those are giant bikes or tiny people.
[14:09] <daftykins> i tend to want to pull people off their bikes and shout at them, when they cycle along the pedestrianised high-street here in town
[14:09] <daftykins> me, as a cyclist also.
[14:09] <BigRedS> yeah, I think Bad Cyclists annoy other cyclists more than they do anyone else
[14:10] <BigRedS> though, obviously, with different ideas of what 'bad' is
[14:10] <GentileBen> BigRedS: anybody who wears lycra and a helmet.
[14:11] <popey> Oooh, Unity3d 4.3
[14:11] <BigRedS> GentileBen: including lycra under baggies?
[14:13] <daftykins> i wonder what the life of the little rear wheel on a penny farthing is like
[14:13] <mungbean> depends how many skids you do
[14:13] <daftykins> ;)
[14:13] <mungbean> remember when we used to "burn" other peoples wheel
[14:13] <SuperMatt> who here is an expert in cgroups?
[14:13] <mungbean> riding a bmx
[14:14] <daftykins> hrmm i've never seen one up close - is the main wheel fixed gear?
[14:14] <mungbean> if hipster then yes
[14:14] <BigRedS> yeah, penny farthings predate freewheels by some margin
[14:14] <daftykins> :>
[14:14] <BigRedS> mostly there's no gear
[14:14] <daftykins> of course
[14:15] <BigRedS> Hah, /me is having a normal conversation about bikes in the other tab
[14:15] <GentileBen> Penny farthing bunny hops.
[14:16] <GentileBen> Is a penny farthing just a siamese twin unicycle where the second one died in the womb?
[14:16] <daftykins> D:
[14:17] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ixap3kddvynw452/IMG_20130614_025657.jpg
[14:17] <daftykins> there are my lovelies
[14:17]  * penguin42 must remember to ask GentileBen when needing metaphores
[14:17] <daftykins> ^ :D
[14:17] <popey> interesting to see Unity are trying to track their social reach by posting slightly different short URLs to each service
[14:17] <popey> https://bitly.com/unity43g+ vs https://bitly.com/unity43+ vs https://bitly.com/unity43fb+
[14:18] <penguin42> daftykins: Two bikes, because one is just not enough?
[14:18] <mungbean> my wife said some ancestor of hers invented the penny farthing
[14:18] <mungbean> not sure how true
[14:19] <daftykins> penguin42: indeed! the little one is a third of the price, safer to take to pubs and serves as a good backup if i get a flat - given cycling is my main mode of transport
[14:20] <daftykins> mungbean: was her maiden name Penny Farthing? D:
[14:20] <daftykins> sorry.
[14:20] <BigRedS> is that an epic?
[14:20]  * BigRedS finds teh 'zoom' button
[14:20] <daftykins> yes sir-ee
[14:20] <BigRedS> nifty, just needs proper pedals :)
[14:20] <daftykins> 2008 carbon
[14:21] <daftykins> what, clip? i don't get on with anything other than platform
[14:21] <BigRedS> well, clipless
[14:21] <daftykins> they had them in the shop but i did a swap
[14:21] <BigRedS> but, yeah, nobody does when they first try them. Then you get indoctrinated
[14:21] <MartijnVdS> I have this bike: http://www.aldofietsen.nl/fietsen/catalogus/herenfietsen/59/0/opa_transport_28.html
[14:21] <BigRedS> spot the dutchman...
[14:21] <daftykins> i've now ditched those for the DMR V12's which are what's on the Rockhopper there, nice sealed pedals
[14:21] <daftykins> :D
[14:22] <dwatkins> I thought everyone in the Netherlands had the same model, MartijnVdS ;)
[14:22] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: not quite
[14:23] <daftykins> A friend of ours has a dutch girlfriend, her parents gifted him a bike from back home. Whilst performing maintenance he lubricated some part with oil and apparently her father was outraged upon hearing 0o
[14:23] <MartijnVdS> either use grease, or nothing at all ;)
[14:23] <penguin42> presumably they were supposed to use bacon fat?
[14:23] <GentileBen> Is Cathy Bussey your nom de plume, daftykins? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/10435207/Cycling-without-knickers-Ive-become-a-pro.html
[14:24] <GentileBen> "Ever wondered how cycling pros spend hours in the saddle pain-free? The only way is commando. Cathy Bussey ditches the knickers and gives it a go. "
[14:25] <daftykins> this seems to be the main concern of non-cyclists - how your bum is gonna feel
[14:26] <MartijnVdS> the same as before?
[14:26] <daftykins> i do actually notice a certain immunity, my first time snowboarding i didn't get any posterior pain at all!
[14:27] <BigRedS> my bouts of cycling are generally a few months apart. Each time I pick it up again there's that uncomfortable 20 miles or so as I reacquaint myself with my saddle
[14:27] <daftykins> but sometimes after i've been away from bikes for a while i notice it takes a few minutes to get back to where i was :D
[14:27] <daftykins> hehe
[14:28] <BigRedS> she makes a good point, though it's normally going commando under padded shorts, not just no underwear at all
[14:29] <GentileBen> BigRedS, makes sense.
[14:31] <daftykins> hope you're not cycling with that long hair not tied up, dear
[14:32] <penguin42> daftykins: Yeh you see as a kid the 1st time I tried sitting on a cycle I decided it was a bad idea to feel like that
[14:32] <penguin42> and didn't try again
[14:33] <daftykins> awww :(
[14:33] <daftykins> what did it feel like?
[14:34] <penguin42> sitting on the edge of a hard uncomfortable thing trying to force it's way up your crack
[14:34] <penguin42> and that's the problem with bikes
[14:34]  * penguin42 kind of fancies trying a recumbant
[14:35] <daftykins> hehe
[14:35] <MartijnVdS> http://www.reddit.com/r/startledcats
[14:36] <dwatkins> there really is a subreddit for every occasion
[14:38] <GentileBen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9XtK6R1QAk
[14:38] <GentileBen> Zero G cats
[14:38] <daftykins> i miss pets :(
[14:39] <GentileBen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwcPuOV0BM
[14:40] <daftykins> i can only imagine what those poor zero g cats are thinking
[14:41] <mungbean> some guy called albert pope had a hand in invtenign it too
[14:41] <MartijnVdS> so, blame popey ? :)
[14:44] <GentileBen> Is popey the Vatican ambassador to freenode?
[14:50] <daftykins> all that talk of bikes has me wanting to go ride
[14:50] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CTPLUcQAjk
[14:51] <daftykins> yes, yes indeed
[14:55] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: I counter your bicycle race with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMnjF1O4eH0
[14:56] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: which in turn inspired http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDSK91mUNLU
[15:02] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: pretty sure it inspired Sir-mix-a-lot too :D
[15:02] <GentileBen> I don't know why we gave him a knighthood.
[15:06] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: Radio ga-ga is the one that always makes my wife smile cause freddie can never get the claps in time but the audience is perfect :D
[15:12]  * penguin42 seems to have an offer for anyone who wants to get on virgin broadband; apparently the victim gets free installation and I get #50 off
[15:16] <Laney> i just read that they are hiking prices again
[15:16] <penguin42> Laney: Nod, but apparently giving every one an extra 20Mbps
[15:16] <BigRedS> yeah, 'cause they're about to lose the ability to
[15:16] <Laney> quite
[15:16] <penguin42> (although they're not saying what they're doing to the upstream - so I suspect no change)
[15:17] <Laney> i'd rather keep what i have and not pay more
[15:17] <Laney> can i downgrade without having to start a new contract?
[15:17] <penguin42> Laney: What you on?
[15:17] <Laney> 100
[15:17] <penguin42> hmm yes, 20 on top of that is probably not much use - I'm on 30Mbps so it's quite a different
[15:18] <penguin42> ce
[15:18] <penguin42> although frankly 30 is enough for me
[15:18] <penguin42> given I was on less than 10 on DSL a few months ago
[15:20]  * awilkins is supposed to be on 60MB with VM but doesn't get beyond 25MB
[15:20] <BigRedS> It's like memory - you notice downgrades far more than you do upgrades
[15:20] <awilkins> 25 is usually enough to satisfy me
[15:20] <penguin42> awilkins: Interesting, I get the 30Mbps easily
[15:21] <penguin42> awilkins: Have you asked them to charge you for 30MB?
[15:21] <awilkins> penguin42, There was a time my local router just ground to a halt from all the torrenting - not enough CPU / RAM to handle the connections
[15:21] <awilkins> 150ms pings to first hop
[15:21] <awilkins> penguin42, I was on the package that's supposed to have been upgraded to 60 I think
[15:22] <awilkins> penguin42, As far as I know from my CM settings pages as well
[15:22] <penguin42> awilkins: Yeh it's a bit odd the upgrade system they had seems to get upgrades to be different from new accounts
[15:27] <penguin42> yep, they say it's going to be no upstream update - so 50Mbps/2Mbps which is a bit silly
[15:30] <GentileBen> penguin42: Virgin Media are raising prices again in February.
[15:30] <GentileBen> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24911042
[15:30] <GentileBen> Virgin Media broadband customers will see bills rise by 6.7% from February.
[15:30] <penguin42> GentileBen: Nod - see the scrollback
[15:30] <GentileBen> They're also raising the top tier to 152MBps but I'm pretty sure you'll see the price rise way in advance.
[15:31] <GentileBen> penguin42, I refuse.
[15:31]  * penguin42 bangs his flippers on the table
[15:31] <GentileBen> To be fair, Virgin have the best broadband service (but terrible customer support - as bad as BT's).
[15:31] <GentileBen> I get a constant 125Mbps and have done since I got the upgrade.
[15:32] <penguin42> GentileBen: Yeh as I said above their going to up the 30Mb/2 I'm on to probably 50/2 - so more bandwidth for a little more money, although frankly I'd prefer some more up
[15:32] <GentileBen> And before then I got a constant 100Mbps, and a constant 50Mbps, and a constant 10Mbps, and a constant 1Mbps...Virgin Media have always sold people real speeds.
[15:32] <GentileBen> I get 120/10.
[15:33] <penguin42> GentileBen: If you bothered reading the scrollback you'd see awilkins bitching that's not what he gets
[15:33] <GentileBen> TBH upload is pretty irrelevant unless a dozen people are Skyping at once.
[15:33] <GentileBen> penguin42, a BT agent provocateur.
[15:34] <GentileBen> "* awilkins is supposed to be on 60MB with VM but doesn't get beyond 25MB" <-- something wrong with your connection.
[15:34] <GentileBen> Did they check your SNR, etc.?
[15:34] <penguin42> GentileBen: Then see your comment about their customer service!
[15:34] <GentileBen> penguin42, to be fair I've never had a major issue with VM.
[15:34] <GentileBen> It's just annoying having to deal with offshore helpdesk staff.
[15:35]  * penguin42 doesn't care where helpdesk staff are as long as they've got a clue
[15:36] <shauno> that's a mixed bag either way.  half the time if you don't go overseas, they put you through to geordies instead
[15:36] <GentileBen> First-line helpdesk staff don't have a clue - that's why they're first-line helpdesk.
[15:37] <penguin42> GentileBen: Right, so as long as they get out of the way quickly I don't mind
[15:37] <GentileBen> VM's second line are in Wales IIRC.
[15:41] <BigRedS> shauno: I've long thought Dell's Scottish call centre was there precisesly to stop people asking to not talk to India
[15:42] <shauno> I'm just nitpicky about it because technically, I am overseas support
[15:44] <GentileBen> shauno, do you ask people to do the needful?
[15:44] <GentileBen> I think people who do tech support for the UK should understand regional UK accents.
[15:44] <davmor2> shauno: oh in that case we all hate you ;)  No seriously I'm of the opinion that as long as the person can actually help you rather than reading from a script it's much better.  VM india call center told me to bin the extra hub that VM sent me,  So I called through to the disconnect me line and got the correct answer of if you bin it we will charge you, and sent me a bag.
[15:45] <GentileBen> Does any Indian call centre worker understand Glasgow people? Unlikely.
[15:46] <shauno> I'm not sure that's specific to India
[15:46] <GentileBen> Yes, people in Glasgow sometimes don't understand people from Glasgow.
[15:46] <GentileBen> But still, my point remains valid.
[15:46] <shauno> I grew up 40 miles from glasgow, and I struggle
[15:46] <GentileBen> And the issue is also how these people are trained - they're all IBM'ers by descent.
[15:47] <GentileBen> shauno, it's a miracle you're still alive.
[15:49] <penguin42> haha
[15:52] <shauno> compared to the rest of the continent though, it does make us look incredibly silly
[15:53] <GentileBen> davmor2, duh. Don't trust Indian call centre workers. They work on several different accounts and read from scripts.
[15:53] <GentileBen> Eg. they're on the Virgin Media account, then the BT account, then the Sky account...
[15:53] <GentileBen> And they're all sub-contracted from the likes of IBM.
[15:54] <GentileBen> Nothing against them being "foreign" - everything to do with them being low-skilled workers trained by other low-skilled workers.
[15:55] <GentileBen> 20 years ago they were based in the UK - now those jobs have shipped overseas, and those Brits have moved into other fields - nail bars, tanning salons, drinking outside betting shops.
[15:56] <penguin42> GentileBen: Or even worse support for other ISPs
[15:56] <GentileBen> Ahhh remember Bulldog?
[15:56] <penguin42> no
[15:57] <GentileBen> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/07/18/bulldog_ofcom/
[15:58] <shauno> I've never had much luck with ISPs in general.  I Remember spending a good 20 minutes on the phone with freeserve, trying to find their freephone dialin number.  and spent most the time trying to explain to the guy why paying customers had a different number
[15:58] <GentileBen> They were one of the worst ISPs back in the less regulated days after BT was forced to open up its exchanges.
[15:58] <GentileBen> shauno, I got the 0300 number for Virgin Media.
[15:58] <shauno> in michigan I had the sounds folder out of 98 stashed away, so I could play the appropriate sounds so that they'd believe I'd tried rebooting my machine
[15:58] <GentileBen> It's free, but goes to the same place as the 0845 number.
[15:58] <GentileBen> lol
[15:59] <penguin42> GentileBen: Ooh what's that - although my BT contract means 0845 is free anyway
[16:00] <GentileBen> Well, for me all local 01 02 and 03 numbers are free, so it's "free" for me.
[16:00] <GentileBen> 03330 003101
[16:00] <penguin42> thanks
[16:01] <penguin42> hmm, 0333 is national call, just like 0845
[16:01] <GentileBen> It's the number they give you if you fail the broadband test online.
[16:01] <GentileBen> penguin42, my T-Mobile tarrif gives me free 03 numbers.
[16:01] <GentileBen> So YMMV.
[16:01] <penguin42> oh odd
[16:02] <GentileBen> "Charges for calling 0333 numbers (and any other '03' number) are the same as for calls made to standard UK landline phone numbers starting 01 or 02"
[16:02] <GentileBen> Hmm.
[16:03] <awilkins> Remember that ISP that offered you free lifetime service if you bought £20 worth of shares
[16:03] <penguin42> how long was their life?
[16:03] <awilkins> That was a bloody bargain, even if the owner did abscond to Rio after about 4 months
[16:03] <GentileBen> lol
[16:03] <awilkins> This was in the age of dialup
[16:03] <awilkins> They had an 0800 number
[16:04] <awilkins> Otherwise I was on Claranet at some low-rated premium number
[16:04] <DJones> Hmmh, df -h tells me that sda1 has 35Gb of 37Gb used, but I can't find whats using the space
[16:05] <penguin42> DJones: Does it go away if you reboot?
[16:05] <awilkins> du will tell you what an individual thing is using
[16:05] <DJones> no, I've tried rebooting
[16:05] <awilkins> There's a disk space application too
[16:05] <penguin42> ok, so yeh du should work
[16:05] <awilkins> Is this a server?
[16:05] <DJones> yes
[16:05] <penguin42> DJones: Only time du won't work is   1) For a deleted file   2) If you've mounted over a directory that has junk in
[16:05] <penguin42> DJones: e..g if you write a huge file  into /mnt and then mount over it
[16:06] <DJones> Thats not something I've done, it should just be a basic 12.04 install with irssi & samba running
[16:07] <awilkins> Ouch
[16:07] <awilkins> Check /var/log first
[16:07] <awilkins> But even so
[16:07] <awilkins> That seems excessive
[16:08] <penguin42> DJones: And what does du -s show ?
[16:09] <bigcalm> DJones: can you use the Disk Usage Analyser?
[16:10] <DJones> du -s is running, its a server, so command line only
[16:13] <AlanBell> baobab can scan remote folders (not sure how efficiently)
[16:13] <penguin42> DJones: No 20GB logs in /var/log ?
[16:13] <DJones> Nope
[16:13] <penguin42> DJones: how big is your /var/cache/apt/archives?
[16:13] <DJones> I might give baobab a try when I get home, Been looking at it for a couple of days, can't seem to find anything over 1Gb
[16:14] <DJones> penguin42: Thats empty, I've already cleared that
[16:14] <awilkins> Hmm, what about loads of teensy files
[16:14] <awilkins> Even the teensiest file will consume a full block
[16:15] <penguin42> it'd need to be a heck of a lot
[16:15] <awilkins> Or a large block size
[16:15] <DJones> I'm going to check where one of my other machines is backing up to, it could be those backups, but in theory they should be going to /home & not anywhere in /
[16:26]  * popey scrolls back to see what he's to blame for
[16:29] <GentileBen> popey: the Western Schism.
[16:31] <popey> usual then
[16:40] <AlanBell> heading to half way . . . http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu/x/5206923
[16:52] <davmor2> popey: Everything !  Nothing new there though right :)
[16:53] <diddledan> AlanBell: do I remember reading someplace that someone had wayland running on the pi fully accelerated, or am I pulling at random entropy? the reason I ask is that I also thought I read that unity uses the same graphics driver api meaning that unity at least has the potential to run a full-on experience in the future.. or am I wishfully thinking?
[16:53] <popey> AlanBell: nice one!
[16:53] <diddledan> and, AlanBell , congrats on getting past the 1k mark on the indiegogo
[16:54] <AlanBell> diddledan: yes, the pi can run wayland using hardware acceleration, it is quite smooth, but there were problems with memory and various bugs
[16:55] <bigcalm> Name a Pi - do we have free reign or do you use the contributor's name/nick?
[16:55] <diddledan> bertybasset
[16:56] <diddledan> or for 1k bertybassetOS
[16:57] <bigcalm> diddledan: http://imgur.com/FmuR7
[16:58] <diddledan> hooty mcowlface is an awesome name
[16:59] <bigcalm> Indeed it is :)
[17:01] <popey> I'd want one named _the_fist or oozemeister
[17:02]  * Laney MMM TEA
[17:05] <AlanBell> bigcalm: I will contact naming contributors and get the names they want, (can be any valid hostname)
[17:06] <bigcalm> Bwuhahahahahaha
[17:06] <bigcalm> Oh, okay :)
[17:07] <AlanBell> I wonder if robert');drop%20table%20students is a valid hostname
[17:10] <diddledan> AlanBell: it probably is when you take into account IDN
[17:12] <daftykins> just diagnosed the first of two laptops i've been given by putting my ear to it :D
[17:12] <diddledan> daftykins: loose screw?
[17:12] <daftykins> dead disk, repetitive head motions
[17:12] <diddledan> aah
[17:13] <daftykins> that old chestnut :D
[17:14] <directhex> diddledan, collabora made a fully accelerated wayland backend for pi
[17:15] <popey> code club was fun today
[17:15] <popey> one of the kids started trying to write minecraft in scratch ☻
[17:15] <directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UkUal_hHx8
[17:15] <diddledan> popey: good luck to em :-)
[17:15] <daftykins> haha
[17:16] <daftykins> very ambitious
[17:16] <diddledan> directhex: a lot of tearing :-(
[17:16] <diddledan> oh
[17:16] <diddledan> that was without wayland
[17:17] <diddledan> yeah, the accelerated backend is better
[17:18] <diddledan> has anyone seen this marketing video yet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHTUlF7NA2o
[17:21] <diddledan> how dare they!
[17:22] <daftykins> just went for a little ride along the east coast here, as the sun was setting
[17:22] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/asiekrtkx92xr1e/saleriepano.jpg
[17:29] <popey> pretty
[17:32] <popey> gah
[17:32] <popey> GTAV PC not out till 2014 ☹
[17:32]  * awilkins will just get Saints Row IV from a bargain bucket of some sort
[17:33] <awilkins> Not finished SRIII yet
[17:33] <daftykins> i've a feeling i should really update my Ubuntu flash drive (used for testing and fiddling etc.) it's running 10.04 :D
[17:35] <awilkins> I have one of those Corsair ones with the go-faster red sidings with Raring on it at the moment
[17:35] <popey> wonder how well warty would work on a new machine
[17:36] <daftykins> this laptop didn't boot with the damaged HDD in, so i pulled it out in an attempt to see if it was holding it up
[17:36] <popey> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/linux-voice/x/1051579 is doing well
[17:37]  * mgdm plays with a Leap Motion
[17:38] <popey> blimey, you're the guy who bought one?
[17:40] <mgdm> popey: no, the guy who sits next to me at work got one free for being a JS ninja or something
[17:40] <popey> handy
[17:41] <penguin42> seem to be going for about 45 at the moment
[17:42] <mgdm> I'd not buy one full-price, for sure
[17:42] <penguin42> not quite down to useless toy price yet
[17:43] <mgdm> No
[17:44] <mgdm> but when it gets there, I might :-)
[17:44] <penguin42> CeX's prices are interesting - they have them as 45 sell, buy for 11, voucher for 18 - I guess that means they're not confident of selling if they buy
[17:44] <bigcalm> mgdm: do you feel as though you are in The Lawnmower Man?
[17:45]  * penguin42 hands mgdm a cricket ball with his name engraved on it
[17:47] <mgdm> Can't say I do, no, I've not seen that film
[17:50] <awilkins> That's just CeX isn't it? Tiny buy prices?
[17:52] <penguin42> yeh possibly
[19:02] <Laney> grr
[19:02] <Laney> how do I turn off notifications from the twitter app on android?
[19:02] <Laney> or at least turn them down
[19:02] <Laney> ah, found it
[20:15] <aquarius> directhex, hm, ignore mono question on twitter. That game seems to be unity3d, I think? Now trying to work out whether I can run a Unity3d game on ubuntu; I know that Unity can now publish games that'll work on Ubuntu, but I don't know if you can take a game that is Unity3d but *wasn't*  published that way and then run it on Ubuntu anyway
[20:18] <aquarius> ha! popey answers.
[20:18] <popey> contact the developer and ask them to make a linux version
[20:18] <popey> i have had some success with this
[20:19] <directhex> this will work if they developed using unity 4.x pro, or the gratis version of unity 3.0
[20:19] <aquarius> popey, (conversations on two channels!) so Unity doesn't export just a "unity game" which goes with a platform-specific runtime? You have to export it once for each platform??
[20:19] <aquarius> that's fine if so -- will contact the dude
[20:19] <aquarius> any advice for the wording I should use?
[20:19] <directhex> only unity 4 can export to linux, but licenses are expensive to upgrade if they have 3 pro already
[20:20] <popey> there's a binary which has the platform specific stuff onboard, and "data"
[20:20] <popey> you also have to pay for some additional platforms like ios and android
[20:21] <popey> 		<script type="text/javascript" src="http://webplayer.unity3d.com/download_webplayer-3.x/3.0/uo/UnityObject.js"></script>
[20:21] <aquarius> there are android and ios versions of the game, so I assume they paid
[20:21] <popey> so they probably used unity 3
[20:21] <popey> not unity 4
[20:21] <popey> so they may not have upgraded yet, or the game pre-dates them upgrading
[20:22] <aquarius> so I need to ask if they *have* Unity 4.0 pro? That is: if they built the game in Unity 3, but they have Unity 4 now, they can just do File > Load on their project, then File > Export to Linux ?
[20:22] <aquarius> also, is it "Linux" or "Ubuntu"?
[20:22] <directhex> it's linux
[20:22] <aquarius> appreciate you may not know the answers here, but the lower I can make the barrier to them doing it, the more likely they'll do it ;)
[20:22] <directhex> and yes, it's as simple as opening the old unity 3d project file then waiting an age for the import/conversion
[20:22] <directhex> i did a video, hang on
[20:23] <aquarius> nice one
[20:23] <popey> interestingly I just updated my Unity3D to 4.3
[20:23] <popey> some neat new stuff in it
[20:23] <directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFyLDMaBXjE
[20:24] <aquarius> does knowing that there are android and ios versions suggest which version of Unity he has? Or could you do iOS and Android in Unity 3?
[20:24] <popey> well it implies 3.x from the html on the page
[20:24] <popey> you could, but I would suspect he's on 3.x
[20:25] <popey> the linux export option came in with 4.x
[20:25] <popey> its his first game, so I would expect he's using the free version of Unity 3D 3.x
[20:25] <aquarius> popey, yeah; I'm wondering that, if for example you need Unity 4 to do Android, that maybe he made the web/pc/mac versions with 3, then upgraded to 4 to export Android version
[20:25] <aquarius> I can't for the life of me find some sort of a chart explaining which versions of unity support which export destinations :)
[20:25] <aquarius> also, five and a half minutes. directhex, you are a hero. :)
[20:26] <directhex> aquarius, that's mostly import time
[20:26] <aquarius> yeah, just skipped through the video and observed that :)
[20:26] <aquarius> 5.5 minutes. 0.5 of which is you doing stuff, along with five minutes of progress bar :)
[20:29] <directhex> technically, if they used third party middleware, it is possible it's non-linuxy
[20:29] <directhex> e.g. if that middleware is nonportable
[20:30] <directhex> or if they wrote their own components in something like C
[20:30] <aquarius> cool! dude replies
[20:30] <aquarius> using 3.5.7
[20:31] <aquarius> "No, I'm usin 3.5.7 but after release I'll take a look on 4.0 and make build for linux too:)"
[20:31] <aquarius> so, winn0r
[20:31] <aquarius> directhex, there's mac, pc, ios, and android versions. Unlikely to be using custom middleware :)
[20:31] <directhex> aquarius, just saying. sometimes it's *not* 3 clicks to make a linux version
[20:32] <directhex> sometimes it's thousands of dollars of license upgrades, and sometimes it's a bunch of porting of non-cross-platform code
[20:32] <aquarius> directhex, yeah. Still, worth a try, and if he says "it's too hard", I'll say "well, OK"
[20:32] <aquarius> but it's a dead cool game :)
[20:32] <bittin> someone feels like helping me: http://pastebin.sabayon.org/pastie/14786 ?
[20:32] <directhex> "pure" unity games which are done only in boo/c#/unityscript don't need porting, they just need unity 4
[20:32] <aquarius> and he just gives the mac and pc versions away!
[20:32] <aquarius> and the ios version has lite and full versions.
[20:33] <directhex> it used to be possible to export to Flash, but that option was mothballed
[20:35] <aquarius> in favour of the Unity player, I assume? (And with an eye on Flash sorta dying away, sadly)
[20:37] <directhex> well, it was difficult to write
[20:37] <directhex> since it included a .net bytecode -> actionscript converter
[20:38] <directhex> questionably valid flash
[20:41] <diddledan> ios and android are both part of the "free" unity4 now
[20:42] <diddledan> you have to agree to terms but that's about it
[20:42] <aquarius> ouch. viciously difficult flash, by the sound of it!
[20:42] <aquarius> anyway, he says he's happy to do it once he's finished the new iOS version, which is good enough for me.
[20:42] <aquarius> cheers, directhex and popey; I know nothing of this subject, as may be painfully obvious
[20:42] <diddledan> http://unity3d.com/unity/licenses
[20:44] <popey> ☻
[20:45] <popey> diddledan: they are?
[20:45] <popey> I thought you still needed the pay version for ios and android
[20:45] <popey> oh, no you're right, I made a "game" for android a while back with it
[21:14] <andylockran> switching to plusnet today
[21:15] <andylockran> bit of a mistake so far; currently have no dial tone and internet access via tehtnering
[21:15] <andylockran> asargh.
[21:16] <andylockran> also, on hold for 55 minutes so far
[21:17] <andylockran> real honest queueing
[22:44] <diddledan> xamarin mono-fondle is expensive
[22:44] <diddledan> $299 for ios and another $299 for droid
[22:45] <diddledan> and that's yearly
[22:47] <diddledan> alternatively they have a freebie version that's limited to 32K of IL code
[22:47] <diddledan> thing is I have no idea how much that actually means
[22:59] <directhex> diddledan, i guess their pricing structure works for them, they're doing well as a company
[23:00] <diddledan> directhex: I'm not doubting the price is worth it, just complaining that I can't afford it :-p
[23:00] <diddledan> it's my bank balance I'm moaning about really :-D
[23:04] <bigcalm> Toot toot