[00:11] <Makyo> Whew, got it.  Man, ingest is a long path!
[00:12] <rick_h_> Makyo: :)
[09:10] <frankban> hi dimitern: so, IIUC, rsyslog-gnutls is now required to be installed in the local machine to bootstrap a local environment, right?
[09:11] <dimitern> frankban, hey, that's right
[09:11] <frankban> dimitern: and this will be a requirement for 1.18
[09:13] <dimitern> frankban, yes, but it seems juju-local doesn't list rsyslog-gnutls as a dependency
[09:13] <frankban> dimitern: asking because, if that's the case, we'll need to update quickstart as well.
[09:14] <dimitern> frankban, isn't quickstart about installing juju-local?
[09:15] <frankban> dimitern: quickstart installs the juju stable PPA, and then apt get installs juju-core, lxc and mongodb-server
[09:16] <dimitern> frankban, from source?
[09:16] <frankban> dimitern: apt-get install
[09:16] <dimitern> frankban, ah, sorry - from the ppa
[09:17] <dimitern> frankban, ok, so does it install juju-local package?
[09:17] <frankban> dimitern: no
[09:17] <dimitern> frankban, it should
[09:17] <frankban> dimitern: I guess juju-local is a meta-package for  juju-core, lxc and mongodb-server, correct?
[09:17] <dimitern> frankban, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7037530/
[09:18] <frankban> dimitern: cool, and you'll add rsyslog-gnutls I suppose
[09:18] <dimitern> frankban, I pinged jamespage about it
[09:20] <frankban> dimitern: so effectively installing juju-local means a complete installation, also supporting cloud providers
[09:20] <dimitern> frankban, it should be enough
[09:22] <frankban> dimitern: I'll investigate why we decided to install single packages instead of juju-local. If there is no valid reason, I'll change quickstart to just install juju-local from the PPA.
[09:22] <dimitern> frankban, tyvm
[09:23] <frankban> dimitern: thank you!
[09:30]  * hazmat totally missed were quickstart went to using urwid
[09:30] <hazmat> whe
[09:30] <hazmat> when
[09:31] <hazmat> frankban, there's a change in jujuclient 0.17.3 that's worth noting.. occassionally juju core will disconnect all api clients
[09:32] <hazmat> for watches specifically, i added a default parameterized behavior that will auto reconnect them
[09:34] <frankban> hazmat: interesting, auto_reconnect=True
[09:35] <frankban> hazmat: IIRC there was a similar bug some weeks ago, is this different?
[09:36] <hazmat> frankban, its the same bug.. roger had re-worked timeouts in the api server which is why it had got marked closed last time..
[09:36] <hazmat> frankban, but another manifestation of the same err, is that juju api-server goes awol occassionally
[09:37] <hazmat> something about a failure around mongodb socket, and then it disconnects all clients
[09:37] <hazmat> core agents auto reconnect  and handle
[09:37] <frankban> hazmat: ack, so this will be fixed in 1.18 I suppose
[09:37] <hazmat> frankban, unclear..
[09:38] <frankban> :-/
[09:38] <frankban> hazmat: are you planning an update for the jujuclient packages in the juju stable ppa? if so, we'll need to also update quickstart
[09:39] <frankban> hazmat: I am also thinking about the jujuclient tgz in the gui charm, perhaps we need to use the last release there too
[09:43] <frankban> hazmat: moreover, a mega-watcher random disconnection on 1.18 would also be a big problem for javascript clients (e.g. the GUI)
[09:43] <frankban> rogpeppe: ^^^
[09:45] <rogpeppe> frankban: i'm planning to look at that today
[09:46] <rogpeppe> frankban: i haven't yet managed to reproduce the problem yet though
[09:46] <hazmat> frankban, i had it pushed to trusty
[09:46] <hazmat> frankban, i haven't really touched the stable ppa..
[09:46]  * hazmat wonders if he can bribe someone to update deployer and client in there
[09:46] <frankban> rogpeppe: cool, thanks
[09:47] <hazmat> rogpeppe, i've gotten about a dozen people reporting in the last two weeks.. i think canonistack environments help to reproduce ;-)
[09:49] <rogpeppe> hazmat: i guess i will try to repro inside canonistack then
[09:50] <frankban> hazmat: could you please ping us on PPA update? unrelated: are you still living on the wrong timezone?
[09:51] <frankban> hazmat: re urwid, yeah, we use that for the environment management CLI
[09:52] <frankban> hazmat: the only downside is that it's not easy to make it work on windows, so maybe we'll need another solution when porting quickstart there
[09:52] <rogpeppe> hazmat: from the bug report (lp#1284183) it's not entirely clear how platform specific the repro script is
[09:52] <_mup_> Bug #1284183: jujuclient.EnvError: <Env Error - Details:  {   u'Error': u'watcher was stopped', u'RequestId': 9, u'Response': {   }} <api> <status> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284183>
[09:53] <hazmat> frankban, toddler
[09:53] <hazmat> frankban, if you want to push it yourself your welcome to.. your pushing quickstart there?
[09:54]  * frankban thinks about pyside
[09:54] <hazmat> frankban, over pyqt?
[09:54] <frankban> yeah
[09:54] <frankban> hazmat: toddler?
[09:55] <hazmat> frankban, baby not sleeping well
[09:55] <frankban> hazmat: OIC
[09:57] <hazmat> frankban, yeah.. never been clear to me pyside was going to keep up.. its already well behind on qt 5 support afaics
[09:57] <hazmat> frankban, the only reason i've seen people choose pyside is licensing..
[09:59] <frankban> hazmat: interesting, I did not look at that ecosystem for a while
[10:01] <frankban> hazmat: so https://code.launchpad.net/~ahasenack/+archive/python-jujuclient and https://code.launchpad.net/~ahasenack/+archive/juju-deployer-daily , right?
[10:05] <frankban> hazmat: I'll take care of copying binaries over to the juju stable ppa. I plan to do that on my next quickstart slot (next week probably, maybe earlier).
[10:06] <hazmat> frankban, awesome thanks.. i think the distro packaging is different, it fetches from pypi
[10:09] <frankban> hazmat: yeah I think we have the same situation with quickstart, where trusty uses pypi and our PPA builds use a launchpad recipe
[12:06] <rick_h_> yea, they've packaged the deps up from the pypi
[12:07] <frankban> rick_h_: when you have time, could we please have a call?
[12:11] <rick_h_> frankban: sure thing
[12:12] <rick_h_> frankban: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/CONVERSATION/UgxGu-UJzXYihe-SGLV4AaABAQ?hl=en&hscid=1394021535421286643&hpe=11omarnn9ff7sl&hpn=Francesco%20Banconi&hisdn=Francesco%20Banconi&hnc=0&hs=35
[12:38] <frankban> rogpeppe: in the near future we might want to add the following fields to the mega-watcher MachineInfo: Life, Series, ContainerType, Jobs SupportedContainers, Constraints, ParentId and maybe also Adresses. do you see any problems with that path?
[12:42] <rogpeppe> frankban:  mostly seems fine
[12:43] <rogpeppe> frankban: ContainerType and ParentId can be inferred from the machine id
[12:44] <bac> frankban: i need a charm review if you have a moment: https://codereview.appspot.com/71230043
[12:44] <frankban> rogpeppe: yeah, that's what we do now, and we can keep doing it
[12:44] <rogpeppe> frankban: machine Constraints are an implementation detail and should not be exposwed
[12:44] <frankban> rogpeppe: so, should we use HardwareCharacteristics?
[12:44] <rogpeppe> frankban: SupportedContainers may not always be set (but if it is, it is valid)
[12:44] <rogpeppe> frankban: yes
[12:46] <frankban> rogpeppe: cool, so,  what about: Life, Series, HardwareCharacteristics, SupportedContainers, SupportedContainersKnown, Jobs, Addresses
[12:46] <frankban> bac: sure
[13:06] <jcsackett> bac: i forgot to ping you yesterday after putting the test up. it's now up at https://code.launchpad.net/~jcsackett/charmworld/bad-average/+merge/209272
[13:06] <bac> jcsackett: cool
[13:06]  * bac looks
[13:09] <frankban> bac: done
[13:09] <bac> jcsackett: nice, thanks.  approved.
[13:09] <bac> frankban: thanks
[13:09] <jcsackett> bac: thanks!
[13:14] <benji> has anyone seen errors like this when doing a "make devel"?
[13:14] <benji> npm ERR! Error: ENOENT, open '/home/benji/work/juju-gui/github/node_modules/node-spritesheet/node_modules/q-fs/test/partial.js
[13:15] <frankban> benji: npm -v && nodejs -v
[13:15] <rick_h_> benji: can you paste the whole block there? I've seen ENOENT stuff before.
[13:15] <frankban> ??
[13:15] <benji> 1.4.3
[13:15] <benji> v0.10.26
[13:15] <frankban> uhm... same here
[13:16] <rick_h_> benji: you've got the sys deps, imagemagick ?
[13:16] <benji> rick_h_: I did what HACKING said, other than that I have no idea
[13:16] <benji> thanks for checking frankban
[13:16] <rick_h_> benji: ok, it's in hacking but asking to verify
[13:17] <rick_h_> the only thing around spriting would be base node issues and missing imagemagick library used to do the spriting
[13:17] <rick_h_> that I can think of off the top of my head with the one liner there
[13:25] <frankban> rick_h_: cards created
[13:25] <rick_h_> frankban: thanks
[13:26] <frankban> rick_h_: what's the goal of "Update machine/unit models with extra data now available"?
[13:26] <rick_h_> frankban: well, there was existing data and then there's the ability to pull data via new calls? Or maybe there's not.
[13:26] <rick_h_> frankban: so the first card was about fleshing out our models with existing data, and then updating them with what we need from the new addmachine calls
[13:27] <rick_h_> frankban: so does addmachine give us access to anything we didn't have? Or maybe it sounds like it's all the in delta and we've got that covered now?
[13:28] <frankban> rick_h_: so, addMachines returns something like {
[13:28] <frankban>             err: 'only defined if a global error occurred'
[13:28] <frankban>             machines: [
[13:28] <frankban>               {name: '1', err: 'a machine error occurred'},
[13:28] <frankban>               {name: '2/lxc/1', err: null}
[13:28] <frankban>               // One entry for each machine/container added.
[13:28] <frankban>             ]
[13:28] <frankban>           }
[13:28] <frankban> rick_h_: so I don;t see any new info for us
[13:28] <rick_h_> frankban: ok, then we can ditch that card
[13:29] <rick_h_> frankban: gone, thanks for checking up on it.
[13:29] <frankban> rick_h_: cool. Fortunately we can parse the parent/container relationships from the machine names
[13:30] <rick_h_> benji: any luck?
[13:31] <rick_h_> benji: want to look at doing a screenshare/call to try to see what's up?
[13:31] <frankban> rick_h_: so right now we have name, agent_state, agent_state_info from the watcher + parentId parsing the name. I guess it is everything we need for machine view 1.0
[13:32] <rick_h_> frankban: and we have the machine spec info ?
[13:33]  * bac afk...bbiab
[13:33] <frankban> rick_h_: machine spec is used to deploy units to a specific machine: this is now enabled, and IIRC units have an attribute for the machine name they belongs to
[13:34] <rick_h_> frankban: so we need the machine constraint metadata.
[13:34] <rick_h_> frankban: sharing the machine view pdf with you, should have an email
[13:35] <frankban> rick_h_: ok, I'll take a look after lunch
[13:39] <benji> rick_h_: here are the first few lines of "make devel" and the first (of many, many) errors I get: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7038531/
[13:41] <rick_h_> benji: check the owner of ~/tmp and ~/.npm and make sure it's you.
[13:41] <rick_h_> benji: and if you try a make clean-all and make devel again does it hit the same issue?
[13:45] <benji> rick_h_: yep, me in both cases
[13:47] <benji> if I remove those two directories and run "make devel" again, I get a different first error:
[13:47] <benji> npm ERR! EEXIST, mkdir '/home/benji/work/juju-gui/github/node_modules/yui'
[13:48] <rick_h_> a make clean-all should remove all of those directories and start again
[13:48] <rick_h_> clear the cache that is and local copies
[13:48] <benji> I don't think clean-all touches ~/.npm
[13:49] <rick_h_> but node_modules isn't in ~/.npm
[13:49] <rick_h_> /home/benji/work/juju-gui/github/node_modules/yui
[13:50] <rogpeppe> 1284183
[13:50] <rogpeppe> frankban: seems reasonable, although i'm not entirely sure we need SupportedContainersKnown
[13:50] <rogpeppe> frankban: s/reasonable/good/
[13:53] <rick_h_> benji: it looks from this traceback that you had an npm install get part way and fail one time and it doesn't like to re-run. So make clean-all should remove the existing stuff and restart.
[13:54] <rick_h_> benji: the thing to see if the failing traceback on a clean first-run of the npm install if it fails again
[13:54] <benji> rick_h_: I had the same thought and am running several sequentially now
[13:55] <rick_h_> maybe you just hit a network snafu on a pass and got unlucky?
[13:55] <benji> I don't think so.  It has never failed consistenly like this before.
[13:56] <benji> I suspect either some setup setup that we forgot to document or a recent change that breaks new installs but works on old installs and we haven't noticed because we use git
[13:57] <rick_h_> benji: ok so I'm confused. Are you getting any successful runs after a make clean-all? You mentioned running sequentially now?
[13:57] <frankban> rogpeppe: fo you mean SupportedContainers can be null when they're not determined and a map when they are?
[13:57] <rick_h_> not sure how using git effects the npm install?
[13:57] <benji> I have not had a single successful run since re-installing my OS.
[13:58] <rick_h_> benji: the only recent change was the nodejs upgrade. Several of us have gone through the hacking doc on new installs of trusty. I'll setup a fresh lxc to see if I can dupe
[13:59] <benji> since we install locally, and any amount of "make cleaning" will never be enough, there can be a hysteresis that causes existing builds to continue to work while new ones break
[14:00] <rick_h_> benji: right, so an lxc test is a good sanity check. But I know I've done three trusty fresh installs and gotten it running
[14:01] <frankban> rick_h_: we already have support for adding machines/containers with a set of constraints. We currently don't receive HardwareCharacteristics from the meta-watcher. To be clear, we can set constraints for new machines but we cannot show hardware for existing machines. Looking at the slides, the current situation seems ok for now.
[14:01] <rick_h_> frankban: ok, good to know. There was some design around putting machine hardware characteristics in the UX but if that got pulled out even better
[14:02]  * rick_h_ migrates to coffee shop to run from cleaners. back in a few min
[14:06] <frankban> rick_h_: an idea could be to replace the 6-weighted card we removed with two 3-weighted cards to 1) update core MachineInfo and 2) reflect new info in our machine models. But I am ok if, as you mentioned, you want this work to be done later
[14:07] <rogpeppe> frankban: yes
[14:07] <rogpeppe> frankban: or an array
[14:07] <frankban> rogpeppe: +1 then, yeah I mean, a sequence in general
[14:08] <frankban> rogpeppe: oh, yes I used map I intended slice
[14:13] <rick_h_> frankban: yea, let's stick in in the on deck for now. We've added the existing new stuff in maint.
[14:14] <rick_h_> frankban: and if we get time we can pull them from on deck to work on this 2wk cycle if we can
[14:15] <frankban> rick_h_: ok sounds good
[14:36] <hatch> benji hey what error are you getting when trying to build the gui?
[14:36] <benji> hatch: here's what I get from a fresh build http://paste.ubuntu.com/7038531/
[14:37] <rick_h_> benji: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7038757/ works from a clean machine to running gui
[14:37] <rick_h_> benji: I created an empty trusty lxc, set that as install-gui.sh and run it and end up with a gui running
[14:37] <rick_h_> benji: this is without any bind to my home directory or anything
[14:37] <benji> rick_h_: I'll try that as a script
[14:38] <rick_h_> benji: I'm running it a second time to verify on another clean lxc
[14:38] <benji> I don't think this machine is dirty, I've only installed about 10 packages (other than GUI things)
[14:38] <rick_h_> benji: understood, just trying to duplicate your issues on as clean as I can get. Don't even have the ppa install command
[14:38] <hatch> benji does npm have access to /usr/lib ?
[14:39] <hatch> does it work if you run it with sudo?
[14:39] <benji> hatch: I doubt it; it's not being run as root
[14:40] <benji> I'm not about to run it as root
[14:41] <rick_h_> benji: ok, verified that script on a new empty lxc brings up the gui in one shot
[14:41] <rick_h_> benji: just watch the user:group in the chown
[14:41] <benji> rick_h_: thanks; running it now
[14:41] <rick_h_> and <3 google wifi at starbucks. 6Mb/s downloads ftw
[14:41] <hatch> benji npm needs access to ~/.npm and /usr/local/lib/node_modules
[14:41] <benji> rick_h_: chown?  where did those come from?
[14:42] <rick_h_> benji: that's because when you first run npm install -g (global) it creates those two directories for your user owned by root
[14:42] <benji> hatch: the gui's npm install doesn't install to /usr/local/lib/node_modules
[14:42] <rick_h_> benji: so to be able to use them for the make devel local deps, you have to chown them to writ ethem
[14:42] <rick_h_> benji: this is why I was asking about if ~/.npm and ~/tmp was owned by you or root.
[14:42] <benji> rick_h_: is that in HACKING?
[14:42] <rick_h_> benji: yes
[14:42] <rick_h_> benji: well the chown isn't
[14:42] <hatch> benji ok then ~/tmp needs access too then
[14:43] <hatch> I had these in my hacking doc updates but SOMEBODY thought that it was too harsh :P
[14:43] <rick_h_> benji: that's why it was the first thing I asked about.  I'm tempted to listen to see if my rage at them will go down at all
[14:46] <rick_h_> or just go higher
[14:47] <hatch> higher
[14:47] <hatch> definitely higher
[14:47] <rick_h_> that's a safe bet
[14:47] <hatch> lol
[15:01] <rick_h_> hatch: any reason for me not to use Y.isInstanceOf to check for a charm vs a bundle model?
[15:01]  * hatch needs more backstory
[15:02] <rick_h_> hatch: I want to do X if charm model and Y if bundle model. I don't see a single instance of Y.Assert.isInstanceOf in our code and it makes me think I'm missing something
[15:03] <hatch> assert.equal(x instanceof Y.juju.models.Bundle, true)
[15:03] <hatch> like that?
[15:03] <rick_h_> no, it's for real code not tests
[15:03] <rick_h_> I guess I can just check object.NAME
[15:03] <luca__> rick_h_: hatch I'm working on the UX for upgrading a charm in the inspector in regards to this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1252586 if we remove it from the list of quick action notifications and maybe put a "Change version" link in the header which takes you to a dedicated space within the inspector that would be ok?
[15:03] <_mup_> Bug #1252586: Upgrade service is given too much real-estate <juju-gui:Triaged by lucapaulina> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1252586>
[15:04] <hatch> if (x instance of Y.juju.....) ?
[15:04] <hatch> luca__ well imho the header might be the wrong place for it
[15:04] <hatch> it's a very limited use action
[15:05] <luca__> hatch: ok, sooooo where do you think it should live? Maybe in the configuration section?
[15:05] <hatch> so I'd even go as far as to put it on the configuration panel
[15:05] <hatch> yeah
[15:05] <luca__> hatch: thats the only other place I could think of
[15:05] <luca__> I don't really want to have a new pane for it
[15:06] <hatch> no I agree
[15:06] <hatch> just taking a look one sec
[15:06] <luca__> should we alert users to new upgrades?
[15:06] <hatch> I'm thinking it should go in the configuration pane, maybe above the 'Import configuration file' button?
[15:07] <hatch> hmm
[15:07] <luca__> so populate a quick action notification for new upgrades, which disappears once they've looked at it?
[15:07] <rick_h_> luca__: hatch what about just making it something that either pops out a panel or that clears the inspector space and takes it over ?
[15:07] <hatch> this would look like the 'service is being destroyed' notifications?
[15:07] <hatch> ^ luca__
[15:08] <hatch> rick_h_ I was thinking expands to push the settings down
[15:08] <luca__> hatch: no, a black notification like errors or running
[15:08] <rick_h_> hatch: luca__ I'm not sure a fan in the config because changing the version will change the config available
[15:08] <rick_h_> hatch: it's kind of two different things there
[15:08] <luca__> rick_h_: interesting
[15:08] <hatch> quick hangout?
[15:08] <luca__> sure
[15:08] <hatch> loading.....
[15:09] <hatch> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7ecpjqdgivcbmgclulgpeuekf8?hl=en
[15:23] <luca__> hatch: rick_h_ cheers!
[15:23] <hatch> :)
[15:24] <hatch> rick_h_ ok back to your object compare issue....
[15:25] <rick_h_> hatch: ignore me, I've got something that works for now
[15:25] <hatch> hah ok cool
[15:50] <Makyo> jujugui call in 10
[15:53] <rick_h_> jujugui small review please https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/160
[15:53] <jcastro> rick_h_, can you ping me when the gui can show recommended bundles?
[15:53] <rick_h_> jcastro: that's the branch ^^
[15:53] <jcastro> jawesome
[15:53] <rick_h_> jcastro: will do, should be on comingsoon in a couple of hours. Won't be on jujucharms until next release
[15:54] <hatch> jujugui deploying local charms is broken on comingsoon until I land my current branch....sowwy
[15:54] <rick_h_> hatch: doh
[15:54]  * hatch blames the qa'ers
[15:54] <hatch> :P
[15:54] <rick_h_> ruh roh
[15:54] <rick_h_> what's wrong?
[15:55] <hatch> it's trying to create an instance which doesn't exist
[15:55] <hatch> simple one line fix
[15:59] <Makyo> jujugui call in 1
[16:00] <hatch> benji ping
[16:00] <benji> hatch: pong
[16:00] <hatch> call now
[16:00] <benji> ah
[16:07] <benji> I waved goodbye to everyone on the hangout and then realized that I don't have a camera plugged in.
[16:07] <rick_h_> lol
[16:08] <rick_h_> we all waved back, mustbe magic
[16:10] <hatch> haha
[16:17] <hatch> rick_h_ yeah they are talking about the $ now
[16:17] <rick_h_> hatch: heh good to know
[16:21] <hatch> basically nodejitsu was running a single huge couchdb for the entire npm db
[16:21] <hatch> ....
[16:21] <hatch> that's why it kept crashing
[16:27] <rick_h_> yea
[16:27] <hatch> so the $ was so nodejitsu could afford to keep npm running
[16:27] <hatch> it had nothing to do with npm inc
[16:28] <hatch> I'm just surprised noone said 'hey maybe running a single huge instance is a bad idea'
[16:28] <rick_h_> yea, but I can't see $300K going to a couple month's bandwidth bill
[16:29] <hatch> well no, I'm pretty sure they raised that expecting to fund the year
[16:29] <hatch> then npm peaced out
[16:29] <hatch> lol
[16:29] <hatch> they didn't cover that, but that's my guess
[16:30] <rick_h_> exactly, it sure seems like they're sitting aorund with $250K sitting in their back pockets
[16:30] <rick_h_> :/
[16:30] <hatch> nodejitsu is, yeah....
[16:30] <hatch> not entirely sure what they should do with that
[16:30] <hatch> I mean, the project they were hoping to support just kinda left
[16:30] <hatch> lol
[16:31] <hatch> and I didn't know this....but issac wrote npm before he started at joyent as a personal project
[16:33] <hatch> rick_h_ your CI failed - in case you missed that
[16:33] <rick_h_> right
[16:33] <rick_h_> hatch: I got it, updated branch is running
[16:33] <rick_h_> make lint fml
[16:33] <hatch> lol
[16:33] <hatch> gota get into the habit of pre-lint and testing :P
[16:33] <hatch> I am thinking of putting it as my pre-push hook :)
[16:38] <hatch> *sigh* fixing tests
[16:38] <hatch> fixing tests is demoralizing lol
[16:39] <hatch> "awesome this works so great.......*32 test failures*.....son of a...."
[16:51] <rick_h_> hatch: looks like it's the theme of the day https://twitter.com/git_clone_makyo/status/441254662885212160
[16:51] <rick_h_> lol
[16:52] <hatch> haha damnit
[16:52] <Makyo> Sigh~
[16:54] <Makyo> I hate to ruin its excitement.  It just can't help itself!    "It is very dark. You are likely to be eaten by an out-of-date mock."
[16:59] <rick_h_> hah
[16:59] <hatch> hahaha
[17:12] <benji> jujugui: I have a very small documentation branch that would have prevented me wasting a day getting the GUI set up: https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/161
[17:12] <hatch> looking
[17:12] <rick_h_> benji: done
[17:13] <benji> thanks
[17:13] <benji> hatch: you missed your chance
[17:14] <hatch> 32 failures > 3 failures > 16 failures > 5 failures AHHHHHHHHH
[17:15] <rick_h_> come on, you know that the failure count in the tests is never worth a dran
[17:15] <rick_h_> darn
[17:15] <rick_h_> once a test fails all kinds of things fail for no good reason
[17:15] <rick_h_> one test at a time
[17:16] <hatch> lol
[17:17] <hatch> aswing-and-a-miss
[17:18] <hatch> I have found that running suites in the browser is way faster than running them in the console
[17:18] <Makyo> Yes.
[17:19] <Makyo> Don't even need to worry about .skip then
[17:19] <Makyo> Er... .only
[17:23] <hatch> 2!
[17:23] <Makyo> 102 -> 97  here.  So many mocks to fix.
[17:27] <rick_h_> Makyo: what changed so bad? the charm url?
[17:28] <Makyo> rick_h_, We get the service info back from that method in the JSON, but previously, we ignored everything except errors in that object.
[17:32] <Makyo> rick_h_, So half of those are "expecting 3 values to unpack, only got two" and half are missing arguments in mocked methods expecting to receive that info.
[17:38] <rick_h_> Makyo: ah, gotcha
[17:41] <hatch> oh I love yui bugs
[17:41] <rick_h_> what did you break now? :P
[17:42] <hatch> for whatever reason, a view is being destroyed but it's leaving it's container in the dom
[17:42] <rick_h_> that's the way it works
[17:42] <rick_h_> isn't it? if you give it a container?
[17:43] <hatch> nope http://yuilibrary.com/yui/docs/api/files/app_js_view.js.html#l318
[17:43] <hatch> ohhh
[17:43] <rick_h_> http://yuilibrary.com/yui/docs/api/files/app_js_view.js.html#l160 you have to pass the option to delete
[17:43] <hatch> waitasecond
[17:43] <hatch> yeah
[17:43] <hatch> what the farquad
[17:43] <rick_h_> if (options && (options.remove || options['delete'])) {
[17:44] <rick_h_> so it's the way it's supposed to work :)
[17:44] <hatch> why the heck would you ever want to leave the container in the dom?
[17:44] <rick_h_> because you often render a View into an existing container
[17:44] <rick_h_> or swap views in that container
[17:44] <rick_h_> taking the container out would be a pita
[17:44] <hatch> but a view renders it's own container if one isn't provided
[17:44] <hatch> so it should know that and remove it
[17:44] <rick_h_> it's not a widget with a boundingBox to keep
[17:45] <rick_h_> k, so maybe it should destroy ones it creates, but it doesn't
[17:45] <rick_h_> and hasn't worked that way
[17:46] <hatch> crazy, maybe I've always passed in a container so I never noticed it
[17:46] <rick_h_> yea, not sure.
[17:46] <rick_h_> learn something new every day
[17:46] <rick_h_> but yea, we often in tests do a makeCotnainer and then destroy that container
[17:46] <rick_h_> so it tends to get cleaned up that route
[17:46] <rick_h_> and maybe didn't notice
[17:47] <hatch> yeah, well good thing we had this test :)
[17:47] <rick_h_> :)
[17:47]  * rick_h_ pats the test on the head...good test, good
[17:47] <hatch> haha
[17:49] <benji> frankban: would "Support ToMachineSpec in fake backend  ServiceDeploy and  AddServiceUnits calls" be a good card for me to take?
[17:50] <frankban> benji: sure, the arg is already in the real go env
[17:51] <rick_h_> benji: https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/152 is the recent branch to the go env
[17:51] <rick_h_> oh, you reviewed it, heh
[17:52] <benji> :)
[17:53] <benji> frankban: I'm a little surprised it is marked as size 3.  Are there complications I'm not seeing?
[17:55] <rick_h_> benji: well, when we scored it we didn't know there was a 'crib this branch for how it's done' in the time allocated. And that score is time to get through review and land as well.
[17:55] <benji> ok
[17:57] <frankban> benji: as Rick said, and also I guess some time can be spent for some investigations on the real juju-core side. e.g. what happens if the specified machine/container does not exist in the env?
[17:57] <benji> makes sense
[18:00] <Makyo> 97 -> 7 :P
[18:02] <hatch> nice
[18:02] <hatch> I'm doing a final run now
[18:02] <hatch> planning on a few
[18:02] <hatch> lol
[18:03] <hatch> w000t 0
[18:26] <Makyo> Woo! OK (SKIP=1)
[18:26] <rick_h_> and there was much rejoincing
[18:26] <rick_h_> err joicing
[18:26] <rick_h_> or something
[18:32] <Makyo> Man, I can't hold both git and bzr in my head at the same time :(
[18:33] <rick_h_> heh, welcome to the rest of us :)
[18:33] <rick_h_> every day I do something backwards
[18:52] <hatch> hmm
[19:16] <Makyo> Did... did _mup_ just go out for coffee?
[19:19] <hatch> oo boy laggy
[19:19] <hatch> Makyo that was the NSA installing new logging software
[19:19] <hatch> lol
[19:19] <Makyo> Rewriting _mup_ in coffeescript, brb
[19:19] <hatch> lol
[19:20] <hatch> Makyo the other day I was reading a blog post that said "Atom plugins can be written in JavaScript" lol
[19:20] <hatch> so I am clearly not the only person haha
[19:20] <rick_h_> lol
[19:20] <Makyo> Pff :)
[19:23] <hatch> actually I saw a review on Atom which showed it and sublime side-by-side and Atom had a pretty big lag comparatively  - I hope that's not indicative of webkit based apps on the desktop
[19:23] <Makyo> It seems okay to me.
[19:23] <Makyo> Granted I only briefly played around with it with the CS game thing.
[19:23] <hatch> yeah - I'm not sure one would notice if they aren't side by side
[19:24] <hatch> but it was probably 500ms difference
[19:24] <hatch> changing tabs
[19:24] <Makyo> Which I mostly wrote in Vim because Vim had good literate CS support.
[19:26] <hatch> jujugui lf a review/qa on https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/162 plz and thanks
[19:26] <hatch> rick_h_ ok on to reviewing your branch
[19:26] <rick_h_> hatch: ty
[19:31] <hatch> holy crud we need to index the bundle table
[19:31] <hatch> lol
[19:31] <hatch> wow that's slow
[19:32] <hatch> rick_h_ review done
[19:36] <hatch> anyone able to review my branch atm?
[19:36] <hatch> I'm going to continue on with it so I'd like to try and catch any issues up front :)
[19:40] <rick_h_> hatch: can in a sec
[19:40] <hatch> cool thanks
[19:41] <hatch> I think someone is DOS'ing someone in my internets
[19:41] <hatch> is so slow
[19:41] <rick_h_> suuuure, blame it on the DDOS
[19:48] <Makyo> On today's Not-The-0nion: I'm glad to hear that Macaulay Culkin is in a pizza-themed Velvet Underground cover band playing percussion and kazoo. http://thepizzaunderground.bandcamp.com/
[20:04] <hatch> lol wut
[20:05] <Makyo> That's 9 minutes of my life I'll never get back.
[20:05] <Makyo> Strange things happen when you leave people home alone.
[20:05] <hatch> rofl
[20:42] <rick_h_> Makyo: I know we talked about grabbing a inspector card, but if you could peek at that bug I mentioned yesterday next and walk me through that I'd appreciate it.
[20:42] <rick_h_> after all this fun, but just to setup the next up circle
[20:43] <Makyo> rick_h_, Sure, though leave for vet in 15 or so.  If it's after EOD for you, I can probably get it done  if you want to hand it off.
[20:43] <rick_h_> hatch: how many views does this make?
[20:43] <rick_h_> Makyo: yea, I returned it to the ready to code yesterday to grab this one for the recommended issue
[20:43] <hatch> umm
[20:43] <hatch> I need more context
[20:44] <rick_h_> hatch: well there's two cards for "update viewlets to be views"
[20:44] <Makyo> rick_h_, okay.  That's the d3 error?
[20:44] <rick_h_> hatch: so curious if this is a good time to move the card or if we're not half way ther eyet?
[20:44] <rick_h_> Makyo: yep
[20:44] <rick_h_> damn, using my kenisis, the air keyboard, and my thinkpad keyboard I think I'm getting worse at typing on all three of them
[20:46] <hatch> rick_h_ oh I'm leaving it there until I finish my current branch
[20:46] <hatch> then I'll move it
[20:46] <hatch> we will be 1/2 way then
[20:46] <rick_h_> hatch: ok, put it in review then?
[20:46] <hatch> not yet
[20:47] <hatch> not till my new new branch lands
[20:47] <hatch> :)
[20:47] <rick_h_> hatch: or by 'current' you mean next?
[20:47] <hatch> yeah sorry
[20:48] <rick_h_> k cool
[20:49] <Makyo> Alright, vet now, shouldn't be long.
[20:49] <rick_h_> have fnu Makyo
[20:54] <hatch> the microwave just turned on
[20:54] <hatch> and there goes my wifi
[20:54] <hatch> lol
[20:55] <rick_h_> hah
[20:56] <hatch> I think I'm going to go buy me a cable today too
[21:00] <rick_h_> I'm out all, night
[21:00]  * rick_h_ runs away
[21:01] <hatch> cyaz
[22:23] <hatch> oh boy this databinding stuff really is complicated
[22:23] <hatch> maybe we should move to react
[22:51] <hatch> rick_h_ https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1288450
[23:04] <hatch> 1000+ line diff and the only lint warning is that I forgot to doc a file
[23:04] <hatch> w000t
[23:04] <hatch> lol
[23:07] <rick_h_> hatch: k
[23:07] <hatch> that one should probably be critical?
[23:07] <hatch> make test-debug
[23:07] <hatch> bah
[23:08] <rick_h_> hatch: yea
[23:08] <hatch> well for the morning I'll have 16 test failures to fix
[23:09] <hatch> then the service config viewlet will be done
[23:09] <hatch> this one was a lot of work
[23:23] <Makyo> jujugui charmworld reviews/QA: https://codereview.appspot.com/71070051
[23:33] <Makyo> hatch, https://twitter.com/horse_js/status/441355172510314496
[23:33] <hatch> rofl
[23:35] <Makyo> The one problem I ran into that I really didn't like about CS was the optional parens were irregular if you were dealing with passing the result of a function call as an argument in another function call.
[23:35] <Makyo> but you could get around that with newlines.
[23:36] <Makyo> And it screwed with order of operations.
[23:44] <hatch> oh, that is a little wako


[13:15] <smartboyhw> Docs people: Can I be added to https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc as I'm starting work on Ubuntu Studio offline docs?
[13:28] <smartboyhw> bkerensa, ^
[13:29] <smartboyhw> godbyk, ^
[14:39] <smartboyhw> Or do I have to ask CC?
[14:39] <smartboyhw> pleia2, ^


[00:49] <pmatulis> dobey: everything is working btw, thanks
[13:08] <ppd> hi. I have a little question. In my fresh ubuntu 12.10 installation ubuntu one stops at "File sync starting..." but does never even actually transfer any files. On a upgraded computer (from 12.04) everything works as expected. Any hints where to look at or how to collect useful information for a possible bug report?
[14:40] <DoctorD90> hi!
[14:40] <DoctorD90> is there someone that cna help me with installation on a server 12.04?...i follow wiki on headless but i get some error...
[14:53] <DoctorD90> ...someone is there?? :)
[18:39] <karni> Our bot should respond to questions containing "someone" during the weekend with "Hey, we're taking a break. Please consider droping by on Monday." :)
[19:04] <DoctorD90> hi
[19:04] <DoctorD90> i get a problem installing ubuntuone on ubuntu server 12, someone cna help me pls?
[19:09] <DoctorD90> errore: https://gist.github.com/13c9ec8df8262ae9a009
[19:17] <karni> DoctorD90: Please visit #ubuntuone. This channel provides Ubuntu One support only (outside of weekends, usually).
[19:18] <karni> DoctorD90: *visit #ubuntu :)
[19:18] <karni> or #ubuntu-support
[19:18] <karni> oh wait, your question did concern U1
[19:18] <DoctorD90> .....
[19:18] <DoctorD90> loool xD
[19:18] <DoctorD90> yea xD
[19:18] <DoctorD90> ubuntu 1 ^^
[19:19] <DoctorD90> i get problem with ubuntu one, at start of it on ubuntu server 12 ^^
[19:19] <DoctorD90> i follow this guide:
[19:19] <karni> DoctorD90: Probably missing dependency. Please visit us on Monday, our support doesn't work during weekends, and I have no clue.
[19:19] <DoctorD90> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Headless
[19:19] <karni> I've never installed U1 on.. exactly.
[19:19] <DoctorD90> xP
[19:19] <DoctorD90> ok xP
[19:19] <karni> xP
[19:20] <dobey> probably syncdaemon is failing to start
[19:20] <dobey> look in ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/
[19:20] <DoctorD90> ....and do you know how fix it? *.*
[19:20] <dobey> you must first figure out what is wrong
[19:21] <DoctorD90> dobey: i follow that guide, but in the end i get that linked error
[19:21] <dobey> look at the logs
[19:21] <DoctorD90> and what i have to search?
[19:22] <DoctorD90> (im a little new to ubuntu word ^^)
[19:22] <dobey> well, probably there is a syncdaemon-exceptions.log in the directory, and it will contain an error
[19:22] <dobey> are you trying to run this as root?
[19:22] <DoctorD90> 2012-09-29 21:17:45,112 - ubuntuone.SyncDaemon - WARNING - Please don't run the syncdaemon as root.
[19:22] <DoctorD90> 2012-09-29 21:17:45,114 - ubuntuone.SyncDaemon - INFO - not starting twisted.manhole
[19:22] <DoctorD90> :/ ...
[19:22] <DoctorD90> you a wizard xD
[19:22] <DoctorD90> are*
[19:23] <DoctorD90> i install it as root...
[19:23] <DoctorD90> and i try to run it as root...
[19:23] <dobey> yes, but you can only run it as a normal user
[19:25] <DoctorD90> ok, so i can install it as normal user, but i can run only like user..ok! i try ^^ thx ^^
[19:31] <DoctorD90> when i run us1tool start i get:   -bash: fork: retry: No child processes
[20:17] <DoctorD90> dobey: i can run usdtoll start....
[20:18] <DoctorD90> or better, once i run it, it reply at any actions i do:   -bash: fork: retry: No child processes
[20:43] <czajkowski> hiya any idea who to poke over the U1 music on U1 results returned?
[20:44] <czajkowski> I've just searched for an album and an artist and they never reutnred yet on going through alll the other albums I find it
[20:47] <DoctorD90> io vado
[20:48] <DoctorD90> i go, nitgh and thx, i will come back monday ^^ bye ^^
[20:50] <Arpad2> hi
[20:52] <Arpad2> Please could I be helped with how to set up a synronised folder with u1 on my android phone?


[10:32] <lotuspsychje> gnome shell crash this morning, apport also failed to send
[11:58] <tomreyn> was there an error message about why it failed to send?
[11:59] <tomreyn> (maybe on logs?)
[23:53] <Aarch64debian> is 5.15 kernel out
[23:56] <Bashing-om> !info linux-image-generic-hwe-20.04-edge
[23:57] <Aarch64debian> well apt installed 5.15
[23:59] <Aarch64debian> no entry in grub


[15:49] <enigma9o7> lovable leopard?
[17:05] <lotuspsychje_> lazy lama
[18:07] <genii> I'm partial to Leaping Lizard but it's probably not gonna happen
[18:08] <lotuspsychje> that sounds good genii
[18:25] <genii> In the comic strip Little Orphan Annie she used to say "Leaping Lizards!" a lot LOL
[18:43] <arraybolt3> C'mon Limpid Llama!
[19:08] <genii> Has the new name been officially announced yet?
[19:12] <krytarik> Well, going by previous releases I don't really expect an official announcement about it, but I did look at the registered series on LP earlier today and it wasn't there yet.
[19:13] <genii> hm
[19:18] <RikMills> genii: nope :(


[17:58] <Happykozac> hi everyone
[18:10] <Happykozac> since last kernel update no more ubuntu studio menu in task bar or volume speaker.
[18:10] <Eickmeyer> What version?
[18:10] <Eickmeyer> !yy.mm
[18:10] <Happykozac> does anyone knows why and how to recover?
[18:11] <Happykozac> 22.04
[18:11] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, a kernel update wouldn't have caused that.
[18:12] <Eickmeyer> right-click on the desktop, and there should be an option to add a panel and "Default Ubuntu Studio Panel" should be an option." Try that.
[18:15] <Happykozac> I try it but no default ubuntu sstudio panel only ubuntu default panel
[18:16] <Eickmeyer> Ubuntu default panel?
[18:16] <Eickmeyer> That doesn't sound right.
[18:16] <Happykozac> yep
[18:16] <Eickmeyer> What desktop environment?
[18:17] <Happykozac> I can try to make a screen capture but its in french
[18:17] <Eickmeyer> Tell you what...
[18:17] <Eickmeyer> !fr | Happykozac
[18:18] <Happykozac> ok
[18:20] <Happykozac> nobody on those channel
[18:20] <Happykozac> my problem is on ubuntu studio
[18:22] <Eickmeyer> Happykozac: You might have to wait a long time. Or try that "ubuntu default panel" option that didn't get translated properly. */me shakes fist*
[18:22] <Eickmeyer> Happykozac: BTW, Ubuntu Studio *is* Ubuntu, so don't let the name of those channels mess you up.
[18:22] <Eickmeyer> All one big happy distribution.
[18:23] <Happykozac> I try it  but no U tudio menu onlu ubuntu menu
[18:23] <Eickmeyer> I just said to try that anyhow.
[18:24] <Happykozac> even the icons set has change ??????
[18:24] <Eickmeyer> Possibly.
[18:24] <Eickmeyer> It'll reset everything.
[18:27] <Happykozac> maybe do you know how to bring back the studio desktop environement?
[18:29] <Eickmeyer> I'm doing this from memory because I'm on Edubuntu at the moment (I'm also technical lead for Edubuntu in addition to Ubuntu Studio lead): Open System Settings, go to Appearance, select the default Ubuntu Studio theme, and select "Replace Panel and Wallpaper", click Apply. I don't know what that translates to in French.
[18:33] <Happykozac> the default umbuntu studio theme  is there but no picture only an icon with nothing on it
[18:33] <Happykozac> only wallpaper that Ihave already done
[18:34] <Eickmeyer> No panel?
[18:34] <Happykozac> nope
[18:35] <Eickmeyer> Ok, then something is goofy in your ~/.config directory.
[18:35] <Eickmeyer> I can't help you any further.
[18:35] <Eickmeyer> !morehelp
[18:35] <Happykozac> when i tryy to download new global theme there's no ubunto studio in the list
[18:36] <Happykozac> thanks for taking time to answer.
[18:37] <Happykozac> take care
[18:37] <Eickmeyer> You too
[18:43] <Happykozac> #ubuntu-fr return illegal channel name, #ubuntu-qc» too
[18:45] <Eickmeyer> Happykozac: I just tried /join #ubuntu-fr and it had tons of people. No issues.
[19:22] <Happykozac> tink I find how to resolve the trouble https://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/ubuntu_studio_theme
[19:22] <Happykozac> Bye!
[19:26] <Eickmeyer> That's completely incorrect, article is 6 years old and uses Unity. 💀


[03:20] <coreyt> what is s.u.c.
[03:21] <jjesse> ??
[03:25] <LaserJock> I would guess screenshots.ubuntu.com
[03:26] <LaserJock> screencasts.ubuntu.com rather
[08:28] <popey> 3
[08:28] <popey> bah
[09:54] <LaserJock> mdke: you genius
[09:55] <mdke> ?
[09:57] <mdke> I mean, obviously, but why in particular?
[09:57] <LaserJock> I'm talking with Revell ATM ;-)
[09:57] <mdke> about?
[09:57] <mdke> MOTU contact?
[10:01] <LaserJock> mhm
[10:02] <LaserJock> mdke: "I
[10:04] <LaserJock> "I own Matt East a pint :)"
[10:05] <LaserJock> yeah, we are talking Englishmen not Canadians, shesh ;-)
[10:06] <mdke> heh
[10:08] <mdke> tell him I'll waive the pint if he fixes my faq bug
[10:08] <mdke> cya
[07:56] <mpt> yo mdke, I'm bemused at your changes to HelpAndSupportAccess
[07:56] <mdke> mpt: ask away. I removed a couple of things that were inaccurate
[07:56] <mdke> iirc
[07:58] <mpt> first, I find it clearer if short adjective phrases use dashes
[07:58] <mpt> For comparison, <http://www.google.com/search?q=%22two-+or+three-word%22> shows some examples using dashes, some not
[07:59] <mdke> mpt: ok, I'm not going to challenge that
[08:00] <mdke> the other bit in line 13 I removed because it's not true, tooltips appear when the mouse is stationary over the menu item; and you don't have to close and reopen the submenu to get tooltips for different menu items
[08:00] <mpt> oh, I didn't see that change
[08:01] <mdke> line 22 is self explanatory, right?
[08:01] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpAndSupportAccess?action=diff
[08:01] <mdke> and line 40 is cosmetic only
[08:02] <mpt> Tooltips appearing when the mouse is stationary over the menu item == requiring scrubbing
[08:04] <mpt> it looks like you need to wait for 1 second on each
[08:04] <mdke> is that a technical term? to be scrubbing involves moving backwards and forwards quickly
[08:04] <mdke> be/me*
[08:04] <mdke> I misunderstood I guess
[08:05] <mdke> like scrubbing the floor
[08:05] <mpt> http://<IP_ADDRESS>/search?q=cache:K2_sRkQ6yKQJ:www.drunkenblog.com/drunkenblog-archives/000697.html+%22a+scrubbing+interface%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1
[08:06] <mdke> so it does mean moving backwards and forwards?
[08:07] <mpt> well, it means that you have to hover over something to see what it is
[08:07] <mpt> so you have to scrub back and forth to find the right thing
[08:07] <mpt> I guess it's not the greatest term
[08:07] <mdke> ok, my bad. Maybe you can readd it without using the word "scrub"? :)
[08:08] <mdke> or I can
[08:08] <mdke> since I removed it :(
[08:09] <mpt> no worries, I'll fix it
[08:09] <mpt> oh, and on a completely different subject
[08:21] <mpt> was "Exit" ever a submenu?
[08:22] <mdke> mpt: not to my knowledge, but it is quite similar to the control center effect now
[08:23] <mpt> ok
[08:23] <mpt> If it had been, that would be relevant
[08:23] <mpt> Otherwise I don't think we should be using the Quit dialog as a good example of anything :-)
[08:23] <mdke> ok
[10:11] <LaserJock> why?
[10:12] <mdke> thinking about translations
[10:12] <mdke> nixternal: are you here by any chance?
[10:15] <nixternal> mdke: I am in class right now, I will be back online at about 2300 UTC
[10:16] <mdke> nixternal: hmm. I ought to go to bed early, I'll try you tomorrow
[10:16] <mdke> or email
[10:19] <nixternal> email will rock!
[10:47] <LaserJock> mdke: is the packaging guide still being shipped?
[10:47] <mdke> LaserJock: I'll look
[10:47] <mdke> not currently
[10:48] <tonyyarusso> I tried viewing it yesterday, and it said the link was broken / file didn't exist
[10:49] <mdke> tonyyarusso: being shipped is a different thing to being on the website. Although in this case, perhaps the latter is broken
[10:49] <LaserJock> mdke: if we keep it that way can I maintian it trunk?
[10:49] <tonyyarusso> mdke: I mean in the system help on Feisty.
[10:49] <LaserJock> i.e. no string freeze for me
[10:49] <tonyyarusso> in yelp
[10:50] <mdke> LaserJock: it's up to you. What do you want to do with it? Perhaps we could do a standalone package?
[10:50] <LaserJock> I was thinking about that
[10:50] <LaserJock> I'm finding that I really shouldn't make it release specific
[10:51] <mdke> that's ok, but it's nice for people to be able to use it on their system if they want
[10:51] <LaserJock> yes, so I would propose a seperate package that I release like Debian docs
[10:51] <mdke> tonyyarusso: ok, can you file a bug? you shouldn't have a linK!
[10:51] <LaserJock> sort of as needed
[10:51] <LaserJock> I can't find a link to it
[10:52] <LaserJock> I think if it wasn't tied to the release schedule I could get more contribution when there are slower times for the devs
[10:52] <tonyyarusso> mdke: Will do, in a minute.  btw, here's the exact text I got when clicking "Running Server Applications":
[10:52] <tonyyarusso> The Uniform Resource Identifier file:///usr/share/ubuntu-docs/xml/C/serverguide/serverguide.xml is invalid or does not point to an actual file.
[10:52] <mdke> tonyyarusso: Oh, server? that's fine
[10:52] <mdke> tonyyarusso: file a bug anyway, but we were talking about the packaging guide
[10:52] <LaserJock> and it would also give me an oppritunity to make it a better online resource
[10:53] <tonyyarusso> mdke: Aaah, okay.
[10:53] <LaserJock> which I think it the most common use for the packaging guide
[10:53] <tonyyarusso> mdke: Why is the packaging guide not going to be there now?
[10:53] <LaserJock> it doesn't really fit in with the rest of the docs, IMO
[10:54] <mdke> tonyyarusso: i'll leave LaserJock to explain, I've got too many damn windows
[10:54] <LaserJock> :-)
[10:54] <tonyyarusso> lol
[10:55] <LaserJock> tonyyarusso: do you want more?
[10:55] <tonyyarusso> LaserJock: sure
[10:55] <LaserJock> heh
[10:55] <LaserJock> well, as we are moving to TBH the packaging guide has a hard time fitting in
[10:55] <LaserJock> and packaging is a rather advanced topic
[10:56] <LaserJock> I wouldn't mind contributing some little "How to rebuild a source package" topic or something like that
[10:56] <LaserJock> but as a comprehensive guide to packaging in Ubuntu it just doesn't seem like the appropriate place
[10:56] <mdke> it's more of an online/standalone thing
[10:57] <LaserJock> the vast majority of packaging guide readers that I've come across read it online or print it out
[10:57] <LaserJock> even when I mention "it's in the help system" they are like "cool, but I'd rather read it online"
[10:58] <LaserJock> so while it's kind of a novelty (even mentioned in a magazine review of Ubuntu) it's sort of out of place
[10:58] <tonyyarusso> Could it be done such that you could apt-get packaging-guide say and then have it show up in yelp henceforth, for people who want it there?
[10:59] <tonyyarusso> I agree it was out of place for most users before - I once had someone read part of that instead of how to use synaptic.  (....)
[10:59] <tonyyarusso> I'd rather not have to read things online, since I might want to while I don't have a connection.
[11:02] <LaserJock> yes, that's how I plan on doing it I think is a seperate package
[11:02] <mdke> we'll do that with the server guide too
[11:02] <LaserJock> but I think the focus should be on online/print presentation
[11:02] <mdke> tonyyarusso: we can't include it in the yelp table of contents easily
[11:02] <tonyyarusso> mdke: dang
[11:03] <LaserJock> it seems to be hard to do well with both "system help" and "online help"
[11:03] <tonyyarusso> mdke: Separate help menu entry?
[11:03] <LaserJock> I hope not
[11:04] <LaserJock> for now can't it go under "other documentation"?
[11:04] <tonyyarusso> Only if you installed it of course, not defaults.  Just picturing how this might end up looking for me.
[11:04] <mdke> there won't be an "other documentation"
[11:04] <tonyyarusso> I don't have an "other"
[11:05] <LaserJock> mdke: where will that stuff go?
[11:05] <tonyyarusso> Meanwhile, I question arranging yelp alphabetically.  Shouldn't "New to Ubuntu?" be higher up?
[11:05] <mdke> it'll be searchable, and the relevant ones will hopefully be linked from relevant pages
[11:06] <mdke> tonyyarusso: that's just a temporary thing. We have an order in mind
[11:06] <LaserJock> so useful documentation will be installed on the user's computer but they won't be able to see it?
[11:06] <tonyyarusso> ah, good
[11:06] <LaserJock> sometimes yelp is just ... frustrating
[11:06] <mdke> LaserJock: define useful
[11:06] <LaserJock> installed
[11:06] <mdke> you mean Gnome documentation XSLT Manual?
[11:06] <mdke> or Linux NAT Howto?
[11:07] <LaserJock> right now I have CUPs, gai, synaptic and those yeah
[11:07] <LaserJock> my point being, they might not be what we want to present to the user right away
[11:07] <mdke> right, so those useful ones can be linked
[11:07] <LaserJock> but surely it should be discoverable
[11:07] <mdke> probably not cups actually
[11:08] <LaserJock> well, that's sad, but not your fault
[11:08] <mdke> well, it's my fault in that I'm totally behind choosing to get rid of it
[11:08] <LaserJock> well, I think it's kinda bad form to go getting rid of docs that authors have put a lot of time into
[11:09] <LaserJock> just because they aren't "our" docs
[11:09] <mdke> LaserJock: no offense, but Linux NAT Howto is not desktop help
[11:09] <LaserJock> who cares if it's desktop help
[11:09] <mdke> it's probably great, but it's not going to help our users much
[11:09] <LaserJock> "desktop" help isn't the only help
[11:09] <tonyyarusso> Shouldn't we be able to read things that aren't desktop help in a more friendly form than with less?
[11:09] <LaserJock> just as desktop packages aren't the only packages on a machine
[11:09] <mdke> you can read em, just open them with yelp
[11:10] <mdke> or search for them
[11:10] <mdke> name me one person that has opened their help system and gone "oh wow, Linux Nat Howto, I'll read that in the help system, because it's probably right up to date with the online version"
[11:10] <tonyyarusso> that seems odd though.  Normally you'd at least be able to make some sort of crapbin section to stuff them into
[11:10] <LaserJock> I do that!
[11:10] <LaserJock> that's the only reason I use the help
[11:10] <mdke> LaserJock: you've got some issues
[11:11] <mdke> go read the online version, it's much more likely to be up tod ate
[11:11] <LaserJock> because the stuff we ship is pretty trivial
[11:11] <mdke> anyway, we need to take care of people who can't find the help first
[11:11] <LaserJock> it's important for user for sure
[11:11] <tonyyarusso> I can't, but I can name myself as someone who's read docs in less or Firefox, and said dang I wish this were prettier and/or accessible offline
[11:11] <LaserJock> mdke: I agree
[11:11] <mdke> people like you guys can type "linux nat" into the help box
[11:11] <tonyyarusso> Four and a half months of the year I am _unable_ to read documentation online.  It wouldn't be fair to my family.
[11:12] <LaserJock> actually I just surf around for that stuff
[11:12] <LaserJock> I don't use the search box
[11:12] <LaserJock> but maybe that's my problem :-)
[11:13] <tonyyarusso> Usually I only use search boxes if I don't really know what I want.  I'm used to being able to just find it.  If I have to search, it usually means something bad, either on my end or the docs'/site's
[11:13] <LaserJock> anyway, I know where you are coming from mdke
[11:14] <mdke> hope so
[11:14] <LaserJock> the current view in that sidebar is not so great
[11:14] <mdke> you'll like it when you see it
[11:14] <LaserJock> I just feel like we are pushing down the software authors to achieve our goals
[11:14] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, I do too - I just think it's one step too far.  I _should_ be tucked away somewhat, so it doesn't provide clutter / confusion for most users, but should still be available in a submenu or something for convenience, imo.
[11:14] <LaserJock> like there should be a "see all documentation" button or something
[11:16] <LaserJock> mdke: well, I comes down to I trust you. :-)
[11:17] <LaserJock> I have my reservations, but I trust that you ( and mpt too) know more about what our users need than me
[11:18] <mdke> we could make an "advanced documentation" topic which links the users to the GNU Info/Man pages and your precious Linux Nat Howto, I guess
[11:18] <mdke> i would consider it a bad idea though, myself
[11:18] <tonyyarusso> Why?
[11:19] <mdke> because the newer users would click on it hoping for inspiration, and would get gibberish
[11:19] <LaserJock> well, I think the search thing will eventually be the way to go anyway
[11:19] <LaserJock> people who don't really know what to search for will need guidance
[11:19] <tonyyarusso> What new user clicks something labelled "Advanced"?  Most get scared and run away.
[11:19] <LaserJock> they all click it :-)
[11:20] <LaserJock> people are curious
[11:20] <mdke> tonyyarusso: no, I disagree, it sounds like it means you can do cool things. Also, even a user who has mastered the rest of the topics is going to be put off by man pages
[11:20] <tonyyarusso> hmm
[11:20] <tonyyarusso> Is there another word we could use?
[11:20] <LaserJock> but it does seem like we could use some middle ground
[11:20] <mdke> tonyyarusso: "DON'T CLICK"
[11:20] <tonyyarusso> "Utterly terrifying hacker-speek!"
[11:20] <mdke> LaserJock: the middle ground is the search
[11:21] <LaserJock> does the search give any preference for doc names?
[11:21] <mdke> but Linux is trying to reach the world of real computer users, and I think we should too. The days of providing power linux users with man pages is in the past, at least for Ubuntu, IMHO
[11:22] <tonyyarusso> Now that's where I lose you.
[11:22] <tonyyarusso> Absolutely we should be reaching out to less experienced users.
[11:22] <tonyyarusso> But why does that mean we have to tell the experienced linux users to shut up and use Gentoo instead?
[11:22] <mdke> because they are 0.01% of the market?
[11:22] <mdke> maybe less
[11:23] <mdke> anyway, that's not what we're telling them to do
[11:23] <tonyyarusso> So?  We don't actually lose anything by it.
[11:23] <mdke> gentoo users don't use Yelp for reading man pages either, they type "man whatever", like Ubuntu power linux users
[11:23] <tonyyarusso> It seems like it, if you start removing options from the documentation.
[11:23] <LaserJock> we are saying "we think you are smart enough to use the search" :-)
[11:23] <mdke> tonyyarusso: we do lose something by it, we lose a help system that is nice for the 99.9%, like other operating systems will do
[11:24] <Burgwork> man and info pages are written almost to assume you already know the tool and just need a reminder of what switches are there
[11:24] <tonyyarusso> mdke: Even by hiding it away?
[11:24] <Burgwork> they are very bad a telling you things like: I want to do X or Y
[11:24] <LaserJock> yes, but there is a lot of stuff besided man and info pages in there though
[11:24] <mpt> mdke, oh, *now* you're warming to "Advanced topics" :-P
[11:24] <LaserJock> I think the man and info shoudl could go, I really do
[11:24] <mdke> mpt: no, I was trying to placate the onslaught
[11:24] <LaserJock> :-)
[11:25] <mpt> in which I think one of the subsections should be "Reference manuals (man)"
[11:25] <mdke> mpt: anyway, your advanced topics is not the sort of thing they're talking about
[11:25] <mdke> it doesn't even mention Linux NAT Howto
[11:26] <mdke> or Gnome Documentation XSLT Reference Manual
[11:26] <LaserJock> I know there is some really useful documentation in there and I think it's a shame to take that away from people
[11:26] <mpt> I don't know what a NAT is, except that it's something to do with networking and IP addresses
[11:26] <LaserJock> but, I think the search function is probably a good middle ground there
[11:26] <mpt> I'm sure it's important, because Ekiga screams at me about it during setup
[11:26] <mdke> mpt: oh, then it *must* be important :)
[11:26] <mpt> :-P
[11:27] <mpt> Actually, what I'd love
[11:27] <mpt> is for mdz to come along and say "the documentation is allowed to take up X MB on the CD, and no more"
[11:28] <LaserJock> maybe
[11:28] <mpt> Then once we'd reached that limit, for each new thing we'd have to discuss whether it was more helpful than something we were already including
[11:28] <LaserJock> I'd almost rather see the documentation not installed than it not be discoverable
[11:28] <tonyyarusso> mpt: For the things we're talking about I don't think it matters what's on the CD.  I'm happy to apt-get docs, I just want them easily accessible once I do.
[11:28] <mdke> mpt: most of the least useful documentation is installed with packages that are essential parts of the system
[11:28] <LaserJock> tonyyarusso: exactly
[11:29] <mpt> mdke, yes
[11:29] <mpt> but we can fix that
[11:29] <mpt> the GDP takes patches :-)
[11:29] <mdke> eventually
[11:29] <LaserJock> but gnome is not everything
[11:29] <mpt> Have they been slow in your experience? (I haven't tried, tbh)
[11:30] <mdke> nah, they're good
[11:30] <LaserJock> as tonyyarusso has brought up, we have lots and lots of packages in Universe with documentation
[11:30] <mdke> LaserJock: most of it isn't in Yelp though
[11:30] <LaserJock> a fair amount is
[11:30] <LaserJock> and I think more should be
[11:30] <mpt> LaserJock, if a package is graphical, it should have a Help menu/button that loads the help
[11:31] <mdke> well, if mallard happens then there will likely be a good way to integrate it
[11:31] <mpt> And if it's not, it should have a man page (which yelp should automatically pick up in the aforementioned "Reference manuals" section)
[11:31] <LaserJock> mpt: but we ship a lot of stuff that is neither
[11:31] <LaserJock> dive into python
[11:31] <LaserJock> debian policy
[11:32] <LaserJock> gtk tutorial
[11:32] <LaserJock> etc.
[11:32] <mpt> Dive Into Python, I would put in "Advanced topics" > "Writing your own programs"
[11:32] <LaserJock> it just seems a waste to have documentation available but not be able to get at it reasonably easily
[11:32] <mpt> same for gtk tutorial
[11:32] <mdke> mpt: you can't.
[11:32] <mpt> Debian policy, wtf are we doing shipping that?
[11:32] <mdke> the link will be broken if the package isn't installed
[11:32] <mpt> ah
[11:32] <LaserJock> mpt: heh, it's required for every package
[11:33] <mdke> hence the crapbin "Other DocumentatioN" that yelp uses
[11:33] <tonyyarusso> mpt: That would be lovely if there were those sections in yelp.
[11:33] <LaserJock> well, let me rephrase that
[11:33] <mdke> unless we create a new scrollkeeper category and amend all those packages to go into it
[11:33] <tonyyarusso> No way to update yelp links based on installed packages?  Or, even better, make it like discussed for file formats - if the link is broken it prompts you to install the package?
[11:33] <LaserJock> every package conforms to a specific version fo the Debian Policy
[11:33] <LaserJock> so we should provide what that policy is
[11:33] <mdke> oh, actually, there is x-yelp-toc:#ApplicationsProgramming
[11:33] <mdke> mpt: ^^
[11:34] <mdke> my bad
[11:34] <mdke> ok, let's do your sodding Advanced Topics
[11:34] <mdke> you think the server stuff should be hidden in there?
[11:35] <mpt> yep
[11:35] <mdke> that'll be tricky
[11:35] <mdke> unless it's a single entry
[11:36] <LaserJock> I almost think we'll have to do it mdke's way while we are still trapped with yelp
[11:36] <LaserJock> it seems aweful to try to mess around with it
[11:36] <mdke> I'm starting to come round to this advanced topics thing
[11:36] <LaserJock> :-)
[11:37] <LaserJock> I think I'm going to stay out of it
[11:37] <mdke> but I don't think "Other Documentation" can go in there, we can do programming stuff, GNU info, man pages and such.
[11:38] <mdke> all the other categories can be linked from other topics, like x-yelp-toc:#ApplicationsMultimedia and stuff
[11:38] <LaserJock> where will Desktop and Applications items go?
[11:40] <LaserJock> what do you mean by other topics?
[11:40] <mdke> the ones we have already
[11:40] <LaserJock> but there is more in there than what we have
[11:40] <mdke> suggestions welcome
[11:40] <LaserJock> so for example, where does Applications -> Scientific go?
[11:40] <mdke> let's just make 400 topics
[11:41] <LaserJock> no, no, I'm just trying to figure out the system
[11:41] <LaserJock> if it doesn't have a specific link it will get dropped out of TOC
[11:41] <dr-evil> four hundred BILLION topics!
[11:41] <LaserJock> and just be available as via search?
[11:41] <mdke> LaserJock: we've already done that to some of our own docs
[11:42] <LaserJock> but that's the way it will go, trying to confirm my understanding, not pick a fight ;-)
[11:43] <mdke> pending any better ideas
[11:43] <LaserJock> ok, well I'm fairly ok with it
[11:44] <LaserJock> a lot of those sections are pretty empty anyway, search is probably more effective than trying to hunt down which section things are under
[11:46] <LaserJock> ;-)


[08:08] <mardy> Mirv: hi! Do you know where I can find an older version of the uitk (I'd like to try 1.3.1742+15.04.20151209-0ubuntu1 to verify if a bug I'm seeing is a regression in the uitk)?
[08:08] <mardy> Mirv: ops, nevermind, got it :-)
[08:25] <Mirv> mardy: ok :)
[09:20] <davmor2> sil2100: are we having the landing meeting this morning I assume it will be you and me
[09:21] <sil2100> davmor2: there might be Mirv as well ;)
[09:21] <sil2100> davmor2: let's do a quick one, you know, to say merry christmas and such!
[09:22] <davmor2> sil2100, Mirv: there had better be cats is all I can say ;)
[09:23] <sil2100> I think our cat is busy around my girl's grandmother now ;)
[09:25] <Mirv> davmor2: sure, two of them
[09:26] <davmor2> Mirv \o/
[09:55] <sil2100> dbarth: ping! Could you top-approve https://code.launchpad.net/~mardy/gnome-control-center-signon/invalid-providers-1287640/+merge/279278 ?
[10:20] <davmor2> bfiller: Elleo: was browser app in silo 17 rebuilt, it doesn't look it or it failed judging by the crosses, if you can hit that today we can get that landed then
[10:21] <Elleo> davmor2: will trigger a rebuild now
[10:22] <Elleo> oSoMoN: are the failures for webbrowser-app on ppc arm64 s390x, etc. a normal thing? I notice the train doesn't flag them
[10:23] <Elleo> davmor2: oh, looks like silo 45 still hasn't landed yet
[10:23] <Elleo> davmor2: it's blocked on an oxide/gcc issue that's preventing it building for xenial
[10:23] <oSoMoN> Elleo, yes, failures for those arches are expected, because oxide doesn’t build on them
[10:24] <davmor2> Elleo: should of sil2100 triggered an new image with it in on friday
[10:24] <Elleo> oSoMoN: ah, okay; thanks
[10:24] <davmor2> sil2100: ^
[10:24] <davmor2> ah okay
[10:24] <Elleo> davmor2: on the train it's listed as manual published for vivid, while waiting for oxide xenial fix
[10:24] <Elleo> (silo 45 that is)
[10:24] <oSoMoN> Elleo, davmor2: I’m looking into the issue, but it’s like a pandora box, it uncovered a bunch of issues which all need to be fixed for it to work
[10:24] <davmor2> Elleo: right okay
[10:25] <davmor2> oSoMoN: :'(
[11:16] <dbarth> sil2100: ack
[11:17] <dbarth> sil2100: hey, what about the oxide compiler issue? is there a possibility to revert to the previously known-to-work compiler?
[11:17] <dbarth> sil2100: i know oxide was dictating the gcc build dep a few months ago, for similar reasons
[11:29] <davmor2> Mirv: awesome now I can insult you here to.....insult......insult.........insult ;)
[11:31] <Mirv> davmor2: :D
[11:32] <Mirv> davmor2: I can feed your insult machine. We're still not publishing the latest UITK landing to xenial.
[11:32] <Mirv> (due to unability to build webbrowser which doesn't build because oxide-qt doesn't build on armhf because of new GCC 5.3)
[11:32] <davmor2> Mirv: Shuggin fashin shuggin fashin insult insult random insult pfff fine
[11:33] <davmor2> Mirv: right but what does that have to do with uitk
[11:34] <davmor2> Mirv: also that will mean no more dual landing fullstop
[11:34] <Mirv> davmor2: nothing, but your insult machine can surely blame SDK team for it anyway! :)
[11:34] <dbarth> Mirv: on that cascade of issues, see what i was writing to sil2100; can that help ?
[11:34] <dbarth> or otherwise let us know if we need to do an emergency call to Chris
[11:35] <sil2100> Yeah, still thinking what to do here
[11:35] <Mirv> davmor2: it has that to do that webbrowser needs to land together with UITK (like it did to vivid) but compiler issue now hold the xenialn one
[11:35] <sil2100> LP: #1527741
[11:35] <sil2100> I think reverting to an earlier gcc is not an option
[11:36] <Mirv> dbarth: it's probable it's purely GCC ARM problem still, so Chris can't help
[11:38] <sil2100> I guess it could be fixed on oxide side as well, probably gcc became more strict or something
[11:40] <sil2100> Looks really strange tho, would have to check the source but that would take ages
[11:40] <sil2100> ;)
[11:41] <dbarth> yeah
[11:42] <dbarth> and also it feels like a code change that should be backed by upstream
[11:42] <dbarth> when they want blink or v8 to be gcc 5 compatible
[11:52] <sil2100> dbarth: looks like currently we're in a deadlock then... chrisccoulson is on holidays, not really possible to back-out gcc, hm
[12:12] <sil2100> bfiller: hey! Regarding silo 46 - I can't publishi this silo due to ubuntu-ui-extras
[12:13] <sil2100> bfiller: normally manual re-builds like this can be ignored, but there's actually a change missing that's required
[12:13] <sil2100> bfiller: ubuntu-ui-extras needs to have the libexiv2-13 hard-coded dependency dropped
[12:14] <sil2100> bfiller: (change introduced by 0.2+15.04.20150311-0ubuntu3)
[12:19] <Saviq> sil2100, can you publish https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/725 ?
[12:20] <davmor2> john-mcaleely: I see no issues with the tarball
[12:21] <john-mcaleely> davmor2, excellent
[12:21] <john-mcaleely> sil2100, any reason I should not push the tarballs now?
[12:21] <sil2100> john-mcaleely: no, all good
[12:21] <sil2100> Saviq: hmm, looks published to me
[12:22] <sil2100> Saviq: I published this on Friday
[12:23] <john-mcaleely> sil2100, pushed. thank you
[12:24] <sil2100> john-mcaleely: thanks :)
[12:26] <Saviq> sil2100, oh, sorry, it's not obvious unless you read the status line, sorry :)
[12:27] <sil2100> nw ;)
[12:27] <Saviq> ah but we have regressions in qtmir-gles apparently
[12:28] <Saviq> hmm
[12:29] <Saviq> ok /me confused
[12:34] <Saviq> sil2100, can you please upload qtmir-gles with http://paste.ubuntu.com/14127400/ to xenial-proposed (and stable-phone-overlay for good measure...)?
[12:36] <Mirv> Saviq: which silo, could it be direct upload to the silo + re-publish? anyway, I can help
[12:36] <Saviq> sil2100, or shall I better prepare a qtmir silo with those changes
[12:36] <Saviq> Mirv, https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/725
[12:36] <Mirv> Saviq: ah so no silo, just stuck?
[12:36] <Saviq> Mirv, I can do silo if that's better
[12:36] <Saviq> no-qa needed
[12:36] <Mirv> Saviq: broken in overlay too so emulator broken?
[12:37] <Saviq> Mirv, it's not really broken
[12:37] <Mirv> Saviq: ok
[12:37] <Mirv> Saviq: silo is always nicer, one gets the diff from the build job etc that's easier to double-check
[12:37] <Saviq> Mirv, ok will do
[12:38] <Saviq> Mirv, problem is new autopkgtest approach seems to have proposed pinned under archive, which IIUC means unless you request a version from proposed explicitly it won't take it
[12:38] <Saviq> sil2100, we need to pay more attention to -gles diffs, thus ↑
[12:38] <Mirv> Saviq: hmm, but, that ticket isn't merge&cleaned? if you get the silo, I can upload manual uploads there and then we can double-check the diff.
[12:39] <Saviq> Mirv, or we could force merge&clean as qtmir-gles is the last thing stuck and make it unstuck with the new silo asap
[12:40] <Mirv> Saviq: yeah autopkgtests have something like that, or that they are not dist-upgraded. bug #1524817 is about that when upgrading new Qt version, old libqt5test5 is installed and does not get upgraded to the newer version
[12:40] <Saviq> Mirv, problem is in qtmir-gles autopkgtests it tries to build against mir 0.17
[12:40] <Saviq> it's a somewhat dumb autopkgtest...
[12:40] <Mirv> Saviq: it sounds pretty similar to the Qt problem - it first setups build dependencies from release pocket, then enables proposed pocket and installs only strict requirements or something like that
[12:40] <Saviq> even though the package was built in silo against 0.18
[12:41] <Saviq> but really it did find an issue with our deps, so it's a valid problem
[12:41] <Saviq> s/problem/test/
[12:41] <Mirv> Saviq: I'm merge & cleaning now
[12:41] <Saviq> Mirv, ok, I'll have silo asap
[12:46] <Mirv> Saviq: trunks are now up-to-date
[12:50] <Saviq> kdub, need a hand please to unblock Mir from xenial-proposed https://code.launchpad.net/~mir-team/qtmir/gles-sync/+merge/280396
[12:50] <Saviq> https://code.launchpad.net/~saviq/qtmir/no-change/+merge/281090
[12:50] <Saviq> https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/809
[12:51] <kdub> Saviq, what's needed?
[12:51] <Saviq> kdub, review of those two MPs please
[12:51] <Saviq> kdub, we might've told you wrong about the -gles sync MP requirements, debian/control needs to be updated manually
[12:51] <sil2100> Saviq: well, qtmir-gles did not generate any packaging diffs so those were not reviewed
[12:52] <Saviq> sil2100, yeah, which should blink a red light from now on (if there are debian/ changes in non-gles)
[12:52] <kdub> Saviq, done, looks good
[12:53] <Saviq> sil2100, I try to remember myself when landing anything with -gles, but if it gets through still
[12:53] <Saviq> kdub, thanks
[12:53] <kdub> Saviq, Saviq, https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VOP_I1dn_9oxwwf209S0ANGOYeOuROmARoOeyth8QaE/edit#heading=h.i57dat7acs4s
[12:53] <kdub> step 13d is the qtmir / gles instructions for the mir team
[12:54] <kdub> Saviq, I'm guessing they should be changed to always bump the version number?
[12:55] <Saviq> kdub, any changes in non-gles debian/ need to be "ported" to -gles debian/, if applicable
[12:57] <Saviq> kdub, I've proposed a change to the step
[13:04] <kdub> thanks Saviq
[13:05] <sil2100> Saviq: true ;)
[13:05] <kdub> Saviq, and if i understand, mir is stuck, pending 809 landing?
[13:06] <Saviq> kdub, stuck for xenial, yes, should be under an hour
[13:09] <kdub> Saviq, ack, thanks for the help. The changes to the doc made sense, thanks for the edit
[13:11] <Saviq> Mirv, any idea what's with https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/796 ? is it stuck somehow due to the oxide-qt mess?
[13:11] <Saviq> it seems to be published to vivid overlay, but not even in proposed for xenial
[13:35] <Mirv> Saviq: it's purposefully not released to xenial since it would break things since webbrowser-app is not possible to build. so it's better for it not to be there at all than to break xenial images. currently GCC regression causes oxide-qt to fail to build on armhf
[13:35] <Saviq> Mirv, builds done, train doesn't seem to have caught up yet https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-021 https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/809
[13:35] <Saviq> Mirv, not a gcc regression any more, according to the bug, but yeah, I understand
[13:36] <Mirv> Saviq: well it sounds like a change in GCC anyway, any failure, since it built fine just two weeks ago
[13:37] <Saviq> Mirv, might still be valid issues though, just not shown before
[13:37] <Mirv> Saviq: and some bounds checking sounds like a gcc change
[13:38] <Mirv> Saviq: diffs look good https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/ubuntu-landing-021-1-build/7/
[13:39] <Mirv> jibel: heads up url above ^ no-change rebuild of qtmir going into overlay silo soon
[13:39] <Mirv> small dependency change for qtmir-gles
[13:50] <bfiller> sil2100: just seeing your message. little confused about what I should do on silo 46. It looks to have built correctly on both distros in the silo
[13:51] <sil2100> bfiller: yes, but you need to include the downstream change
[13:51] <sil2100> bfiller: since slangasek didn't release that to the archive for nothing - just remove the dependency and remove
[13:51] <sil2100> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/213415209/ubuntu-ui-extras_0.2%2B15.04.20150311-0ubuntu2_0.2%2B15.04.20150311-0ubuntu3.diff.gz
[13:51] <bfiller> sil2100: oh so he pushed something to the archive and not to trunk you mean?
[13:51] <sil2100> s/remove/rebuild
[13:51] <sil2100> Yeah... bad practice
[13:52] <bfiller> sil2100: got it, ok
[13:52] <sil2100> But that was during the wily finals, so he's excused partially ;)
[13:52] <sil2100> bfiller: thanks!
[14:07] <Mirv> Saviq: so, should you set 021 to publish without QA and let's publish it?
[14:07] <Saviq> Mirv, dnoe
[14:07] <Saviq> done, even
[14:12] <Mirv> Saviq: published, let's hope autopkgtests pass this time
[14:21] <bfiller> sil2100: what's the best way to get the changelog in sync with what's in archive? getting this error trying to build https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/ubuntu-landing-046-1-build/4/console
[14:22] <bfiller> sil2100: nm, just will copy from version in wily
[15:11] <davmor2> sil2100: silo 58 were you able to deal with that in the end?
[15:12] <davmor2> Mirv: so qt-networking silo 5, I assume that it is just double checking that nothing breaks on the phone with networking right then it can be landed?
[15:13] <davmor2> Mirv: assume that kenvandine will soon tell you if it doesn't work, iirc the thing that was throwing us was that the phone has no ethernet :)
[15:13] <Mirv> davmor2: that should be it yes.
[15:14] <Mirv> davmor2: ken has confirmed the fix at bug #1523975
[15:14] <davmor2> Mirv: cool
[15:25] <kdub> Saviq, just to check, once https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/809 goes through, mir will become unstuck? I admittedly don't know the process very well
[15:26] <Saviq> kdub, yeah, everything will happen automagically, should be any minute now
[15:26] <kdub> cool, thanks for the help
[15:27] <Saviq> kdub, you can monitor the progress on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/xenial/update_excuses.html#qtmir and http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running.shtml
[15:27] <kdub> ah neat, didn't know about those sites
[15:28] <sil2100> davmor2: yeah, it's done
[15:29] <Saviq> kdub, the first one is linked in the "Status" line in https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/809
[15:29] <davmor2> sil2100: great I'll delete the ticket from the qa list then
[15:54] <bfiller> sil2100: silo 46 has been rebuilt and problems fixed with ui-extras package, should be able to publish now
[15:55] <sil2100> bfiller: \o/ thanks, on it now
[17:33] <jhodapp> Mirv, can you publish silo 34 for me please since it needs a core dev to land?
[17:53] <kdub> is this silo stuck? https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/809
[18:11] <jhodapp> cyphermox, around?
[18:11] <cyphermox> yep
[18:12] <jhodapp> cyphermox, my silo 34 got QA approval, can you please land it since it needs a core dev to do so?
[18:22] <cyphermox> jhodapp: NAK, the changelog there means nothing at all, it doesn't even describe the changes in the patch: https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/ubuntu-landing-034-1-build/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/qtmultimedia-opensource-src-gles_vivid_packaging_changes.diff
[18:23] <jhodapp> cyphermox, that's for the -gles package which was not changed, I'm not quite sure what Mirv does for that
[18:23] <jhodapp> cyphermox, the change is really in the non -gles package
[18:24] <jhodapp> cyphermox, and actually, that description is accurate
[18:24] <cyphermox> well then why does it need a patch?
[18:24] <cyphermox> and why not just write what the patch does?
[18:25] <jhodapp> cyphermox, it does, it's a sync
[18:25] <cyphermox> that's not a sync, that's copying the same changes again to another package
[18:25] <jhodapp> cyphermox, that's what the -gles package is
[18:25] <cyphermox> and that brings up the question of why do you need two source packages when it's the same code?
[18:25] <jhodapp> I don't fully understand what it's used for
[18:26] <jhodapp> cyphermox, not sure, you'd have to ask Mirv as he's the real maintainer of this for Ubuntu
[18:27] <cyphermox> I'd very much like to see better changelogs even if it's just copying the same thing from one package to another. that's the point of changelogs, making sure people who don't have all the context have an idea of what's going on
[18:28] <jhodapp> cyphermox, sure ideally I agree...we can get Mirv to update this although I'm pretty sure this is how things have always been done
[18:29] <cyphermox> jhodapp: it's not because it's how it always has been done that it's correct
[18:29] <jhodapp> cyphermox, I never said that :)
[18:29] <cyphermox> we've been able to do multiple builds of different kinds with a single source package :)
[18:29] <jhodapp> cyphermox, I really can't answer your questions, we need to get an explanation from Mirv
[18:29] <cyphermox> indeed.
[18:30] <cyphermox> well, I don't feel it's necessary that I punish you because of this, but I'll bring up the issues to Timo
[18:30] <jhodapp> cyphermox, alright, we need a better way of reviewing source only package changes...this kind of discussion should happen before I'm asking a core dev to land it
[18:31] <cyphermox> well, yes and no
[18:31] <cyphermox> people should already know to write meaningful changelogs
[18:31] <cyphermox> in fact, it flows from writing meaningful commit messages :)
[18:32] <jhodapp> cyphermox, agreed, but this should be caught in a code review process like a normal MR, but this isn't an MR
[18:32] <cyphermox> what wasn't a MR?
[18:32] <jhodapp> cyphermox, this change, it's a source package only change
[18:32] <cyphermox> people who do direct uploads should even better know to write changelogs
[18:33] <Elleo> trainguards: heya, I've just retargetted silo 17 from dual landing to vivid only, I seem to remember there was some manual clean up needed in the past when doing this, am I remembering right?
[18:33] <jhodapp> cyphermox, but anyway, thanks for publishing
[18:33] <jhodapp> and reviewing it
[18:34] <cyphermox> sure
[18:35] <cyphermox> Elleo: I'm not sure what trainguards are around for this. did you try to rebuild? I would expect this to be the only thing needed.
[18:35] <Elleo> cyphermox: I haven't tried yet, I just remembered having to ping someone for something last time I did this :P
[18:36] <Elleo> cyphermox: I'll give it a go and see what happens
[18:36] <cyphermox> ok
[18:51] <jhodapp> robru, around?
[19:36] <kdub> trainguards,  https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/809 seems stuck somehow waiting for ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts
[19:36] <kdub> not quite sure why... is there something that can be done to move the ticket along?
[19:58] <cjwatson> kdub: it appears to be waiting for autopkgtests in general to catch up
[19:59] <cjwatson> kdub: but at least some of the relevant tests are running right now
[19:59] <kdub> cjwatson, so its just going slow, not stuck then?
[20:00] <kdub> I'm not quite sure the details of this process, kinda looks stuck to me
[20:00] <cjwatson> kdub: slow
[20:00] <cjwatson> kdub: http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running.shtml shows the relevant tests urnning
[20:00] <cjwatson> *running
[20:00] <kdub> cjwatson, thanks for the help
[20:20] <robru> cyphermox: agreed, stupid -gles not being built from the same source package has been a thorn in my side for a long time. IIRC according to slangasek it's because they have mutually conflicting build deps that they have to be separate source packages
[20:21] <robru> jhodapp: hey what's up?
[20:21] <cyphermox> robru: that's be the one good reason to have those separate
[20:22] <robru> Elleo: you can't just retarget, you need to branch your changelog for vivid as the train won't allow generating a vivid version number on a xenial trunk
[20:23] <robru> Also you'll need me to delete the xenial packages manually
[20:23] <robru> Generally you should fix whatever issue is not working in xenial rather than five up on it and try to release to vivid only
[20:24] <robru> cyphermox: yeah I tried making it all coinstallable one time and it was a giant fustercluck
[20:26] <jhodapp> robru, hey, can you please dput qtmultimedia 5.4.1 from ppa:jhodapp/ubuntu/ppa to silo 58
[20:27] <pmcgowan> robru, that silo is blocked by a gcc5 issue in xenial such that a lib oxide needs wont compile
[20:27] <bzoltan_> robru:  may I ask for a silo to fix that system settings issue - https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/814 ?
[20:28] <robru> pmcgowan: OK well you'll need a new branch with a vivid changelog then
[20:28] <pmcgowan> not sure if Elleo or oSoMoN  are still around
[20:28] <pmcgowan> bfiller, ^
[20:29] <pmcgowan> thats for silo 17
[20:30] <bfiller> pmcgowan: looking
[20:30] <robru> jhodapp: done
[20:31] <oSoMoN> pmcgowan, robru: I’m around
[20:32] <robru> bzoltan_: hm I would but I'm having trouble with sso...
[20:32] <oSoMoN> robru, we’ve not given up, but any xenial webbrowser-app build is blocked on bug #1528297, and no one will take a look at it until tomorrow at the earliest
[20:33] <robru> oSoMoN: ok but if you switch your silo from dual to vivid you're essentially giving up on xenial ;-)
[20:33] <bzoltan_> robru: right... whenever you can :) i will be back
[20:33] <oSoMoN> robru, temporarily
[20:33] <oSoMoN> robru, although from what you said, if we need to branch we might as well revert to dual landing and do like we did for silo 45, i.e. force merge with a broken package in xenial
[20:34] <robru> oSoMoN: if you're planning on switching it back to dual before landing I recommend just leaving it as dual and just letting the xenial builds fail until they get fixed later. because you can't just take a xenial trunk and build it for vivid, you have to branch the trunk, not worth the effort
[20:34] <oSoMoN> robru, okay
[20:34] <robru> right
[20:34] <oSoMoN> Elleo, still around?
[20:35] <oSoMoN> I’ll update the landing request to revert to dual landing
[20:36] <robru> cyphermox: if you're able to log in to train jenkins can you assign https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/814 ? I can't seem to log in
[20:36] <cyphermox> done
[20:37] <robru> cyphermox: thanks
[21:10] <Elleo> oSoMoN: back now
[21:12] <oSoMoN> Elleo, I reverted silo 17 to dual-landing and triggered a rebuild, it’s almost done now, I’ll be testing it just to double check, and we can ask davmor2 to give his ok tomorrow morning
[21:13] <Elleo> oSoMoN: okay, cool
[21:14] <oSoMoN> Elleo, feel free to do some quick validation on your side as well, I wouldn’t want to break anything the day I leave for holidays
[21:20] <Elleo> oSoMoN: is the "diff missing" message anything to be concerned about?
[21:20] <Elleo> oSoMoN: will install now and run through some quick sanity checks
[21:20] <oSoMoN> Elleo, I don’t know, but it doesn’t look like the train considers it a blocking error
[21:21] <Elleo> oSoMoN: okay
[21:27] <alecu> Hi trainguards, I get "ERROR Assignment failed: Low on silos: Ask a trainguard to assign.", so I guess I need to ask y'all.
[21:27] <alecu> https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/816
[21:29] <robru> cyphermox: can you assign another? I still can't log in
[21:30] <cyphermox> robru: can you try again? there should be no reason why you can't log in... otherwise it would be good to ask on launchpad-ops.
[21:30] <robru> cyphermox: the status in #is-outage mentions sso being unresponsive for some people
[21:32] <alecu> outage again? :-(
[21:42] <robru> alecu: train is fine I just can't log in because sso
[21:44] <robru> cyphermox: I'm chatting with #is people, if you could go ahead and assign https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/816 that'd be super, th
[21:44] <robru> thx
[21:45] <cyphermox> ok
[21:45] <cyphermox> SUCCESS
[21:46] <alecu> yay, santa got here earlier!
[21:46] <alecu> thanks guys :-)
[21:47] <cyphermox> what? where is it?
[21:47] <cyphermox> what I want for christmas is to be able to breathe normally again
[21:48] <alecu> cyphermox: really? what happened?
[21:48] <cyphermox> just a cold
[21:48] <cyphermox> but then I get annoyed at myself for generating so much mucus, coughing, runny eyes and all.
[21:50] <alecu> sounds annoying... hope you get well!
[21:50] <cyphermox> in due time! :)
[21:57] <robru> cyphermox: thanks
[22:00] <cjwatson> kdub: ah, yeah, maybe it is in fact stuck - not something I have the ability to fix I'm afraid
[22:20] <robru> awwwwwwww yissssssss ^ new queuebot won't ping spam nearly so much now ;-)


[05:08] <magespawn> good morning
[05:41] <Kilos> guten morgen
[06:33] <thatgraemeguy> mornings
[06:34] <pavlushka> morning thatgraemeguy
[06:34] <Kilos> hi thatgraemeguy
[06:34] <chesedo> morning magespawn Kilos thatgraemeguy pavlushka and others
[06:35] <pavlushka> morning chesedo!
[06:35] <Kilos> hi chesedo all good there
[06:35] <chesedo> Kilos: yip and self?
[06:36] <Kilos> okty
[06:36] <Kilos> just dunno whats up spacebar
[06:37] <Kilos> have to touch directly centre or it doesntwork
[06:37] <chesedo> Kilos: guess we will have to get our twitter, g+, mail and what not messages out later today for the meeting next week..
[06:37] <Kilos> oh my
[06:38] <Kilos> where did this month go
[06:39]  * chesedo hopes it went forward :P
[06:39] <Kilos> lol
[07:42] <Kilos> i go sort sheep
[07:42] <thatgraemeguy> how do you sort them?
[07:42] <thatgraemeguy> weight?
[07:42] <thatgraemeguy> age?
[07:42] <thatgraemeguy> height?
[07:42] <thatgraemeguy> smell?
[07:43] <Kilos> nono i meanmove ramsto onecamp fromtheir lockup kraal and then ewes to another camp
[07:43] <Kilos> hehe
[07:43] <thatgraemeguy> I know :-)
[07:43] <Kilos> no hanky panky allowed atm
[07:43] <Kilos> hahaha
[07:44] <thatgraemeguy> I'm not that much of a city boy y'know
[07:44] <Kilos> ohok
[07:44] <Kilos> i didntknow
[07:44] <thatgraemeguy> I once helped round up some sheep in the morning and then by afternoon we had fresh tails to throw on the braai for snacks ;)
[07:45] <thatgraemeguy> wool and all. stick em under a pile of hot ashes for a little bit and the wool slips right off
[07:45] <Kilos> i dont know what to do to fix this spacebar
[07:45] <thatgraemeguy> yum yum, now I'm hungry thanks!
[07:45] <Kilos> haha
[07:45] <Kilos> chops on legs
[08:05] <magespawn> Kilos: space bar on the keyboard?
[08:05] <magespawn> roast lamb with rosemary glaze
[08:06] <Rynomster> omnomnom
[08:12] <pavlushka> lol @ magespawn !
[08:41] <Kilos> wbb gonna try fix space bar
[08:47] <inetpro> good evenings
[08:48] <pavlushka> Good Mornings inetpro , unless otherwise you are in a different time zone, :p
[08:48] <pavlushka> other than your local
[08:49] <pavlushka> morning
[08:51] <inetpro> lol
[08:51] <inetpro> hoe gaan dit pavlushka?
[08:53]  * pavlushka thinks inetpro drives him to google translate
[08:54] <pavlushka> inetpro: I am fine, thanks, and you?
[08:54] <inetpro> haha, you should know the language by now :-)
[08:55] <pavlushka> study says women are good at learning new languages, and I am not a women so far
[08:56] <pavlushka> :p
[08:57] <magespawn> pavlushka: what language do you speak at home? hi by the way.
[08:57] <Kilos> hi magespawn
[08:58] <Kilos> he speaks gibberish magespawn
[08:58] <pavlushka> magespawn: Bengali
[08:58] <Kilos> looks like the stuff etched on pyramid walls
[08:58] <Kilos> hyroglyphics
[08:58] <Kilos> hehe
[09:00] <pavlushka> lol
[09:05] <inetpro> wb Kilos
[09:05] <Kilos> ty inetpro
[09:05] <Kilos> had to repair space bar
[09:07] <inetpro> Kilos: is it fixed now?
[09:07] <magespawn> pavlushka: now that might be something to learn
[09:07] <Kilos> yessir
[09:10] <pavlushka> magespawn: if you think so, :)
[09:11] <inetpro> Kilos: cool, else you should just use another character for space
[09:11] <Kilos> sjoe
[09:11] <Kilos> thank heavens it fixed
[09:11] <inetpro> you,can,always,learn,to,type,like,this
[09:11] <Kilos> haha
[09:12] <inetpro> won't look as neat and certainly could get very confusing but...
[09:13] <inetpro> you don't really need a space to survive
[09:14] <Kilos> whew
[09:14] <inetpro> otherwise just go get yourself a new keyboard with all the money you saved with your travelling delays
[09:15] <Kilos> if push comes to shove i can always login on desktop
[09:16] <Kilos> magespawn it looks like this কি নাম রে ভাও
[09:40] <magespawn> Kilos be careful, you might jusr start an incident, you might have just insulted the whole country ;)
[09:40] <Kilos> lol
[09:52] <pavlushka> lol
[10:03] <magespawn> brb
[10:22] <gremble> Good afternoon
[10:23] <Kilos> hi gremble
[10:23] <gremble> How are you Kilos
[10:24] <Kilos> ok ty and you
[10:24] <Kilos> oops power gone
[10:24] <Kilos> wbb
[11:32] <pavlushka> Hello theblazehen !
[11:36]  * superfly waves from DebCamp16 day 2
[11:39] <magespawn> hey superfly camping out i see
[11:40] <superfly> heh
[11:42] <superfly> it's the hackfest that happens before DebConf
[11:46] <magespawn> nice
[11:47]  * magespawn is somewhat envious
[12:33] <Kilos> hi tareq
[12:33] <Kilos> inetpro superfly and other kde users, can you give us an idea of what to write help files for on kde
[12:34] <Kilos> what documentation needs to cover what topics
[12:34] <tareq> hey
[12:34] <tareq> i need some topic, so that it can help new users
[12:35] <Kilos> tareq wants to write, to helps noobs
[12:35] <tareq> in my personal blog, some forums
[12:35] <Kilos> just be patient tareq they are all at work
[12:35] <tareq> ok, no problem
[12:35] <superfly> Honestly, you have two options: either contact the KDE team and find out from them, or just start by yourself.
[12:36] <superfly> I'm not a good person to ask because I've been using KDE for more than 10 years.
[12:36] <superfly> tareq: are your users new to KDE, or new to Linux as a whole?
[12:37] <tareq> superfly: we have both
[12:37] <tareq> I think at first I should target second group
[12:38] <superfly> So for "I've used Windows all my life" people, I'd probably start with things like "how to set up your mouse to double-click like Windows"
[12:38] <superfly> and potentially "where are my files" and "how do I get on the internet?"
[12:38] <inetpro> https://community.kde.org/Get_Involved/documentation
[12:40] <tareq> I think a new user should try kde based distro first
[12:40] <superfly> I agree
[12:40] <superfly> But KDE is still not very Windows-like beyond initial appearances
[12:41] <tareq> unity, gnome shell not for them
[12:41] <tareq> yea
[12:41] <tareq> but appearances are key for noobs
[12:46] <Kilos> tareq look at the above link, you could get some more ideas other than what the guys have said already
[12:46] <Kilos> and dont forget to do english as well
[12:47] <Kilos> i have my live help in this channel
[12:47] <tareq> yea, now I need to get involved
[12:48] <tareq> in documentation
[12:48] <Kilos> enjoy
[12:48] <tareq> I hope it will help me to get official membership
[12:48] <tareq> :)
[12:49] <Kilos> even translations help
[12:49] <tareq> yea
[12:49] <Kilos> they score on karma
[12:49] <tareq> translation and documentation
[12:49] <tareq> brb
[12:50] <Kilos> ty superfly inetpro
[13:16] <theblazehen> Hey all. Happy birthday for yesterday Kilos :)
[13:37] <tareq> Kilos, happy birthday
[14:15] <Kilos> ty tareq
[14:15] <Kilos> ty theblazehen
[14:57] <Kilos> magespawn
[14:57] <Kilos> i need win advice please
[14:58] <Kilos> got a crashed xp pc rotten with virii, cant make backup
[14:59] <Kilos> but using ubuntu i can see about everything
[14:59] <Kilos> is all the users data in documents and settings
[15:00] <Kilos> and what else must i save to make it like it was , after i format and install xp again
[15:11] <tareq> kilos: just copy all documents to another partition
[15:11] <Kilos> is that all?
[15:11] <tareq> or you can boot scan the drive
[15:11] <tareq> using antivirus
[15:12] <tareq> I would prefer boot scan using antivirus
[15:12] <Kilos> using gufw?
[15:12] <tareq> you can
[15:12] <Kilos> cool ty
[15:13] <Kilos> ill try to scan and see what happens
[15:13] <Kilos> reinstall doesnt work because it keeps saying it cant find files
[15:13] <tareq> Kilos: it would be better if you install avast in ubuntu
[15:13] <Kilos> so i was going to format the drive
[15:14] <tareq> then scan that drive
[15:14] <tareq> using avast
[15:14] <Kilos> i tried avast once in ubuntu and it didnt work
[15:14] <Kilos> have they made a linux version now
[15:14] <Kilos> one that works
[15:15] <tareq> clamAV
[15:15] <Kilos> oh yes
[15:15] <Kilos> i meant that not gufw
[15:16] <Kilos> ty tareq let me give it a go
[15:17] <tareq> good luck
[15:17] <Kilos> ty
[15:19] <tareq> its my pleasure :)
[15:20] <magespawn> Gh%^23
[15:20] <Kilos> huh
[15:27] <magespawn> wrong keyboard
[15:27] <Kilos> lol
[15:27] <magespawn> home time chat later all
[15:27] <Kilos> go safe
[15:30] <Kilos> wbb
[16:37] <pavlushka> lol theblazehen , where were you yesterday?
[16:37] <theblazehen> pavlushka: dentist. Removed wisdom teeth
[16:38] <pavlushka> hmm
[16:41] <pavlushka> Kilos: having XP issue?
[16:43] <Kilos> yeah another old ladies pc
[18:14]  * Kilos waves to the noisy crowd
[18:24] <tareq> hello kilos
[18:24] <tareq> what is the update
[18:27] <Kilos> havent got further than copying all documents and settings over to ubuntu tareq
[18:27] <Kilos> busy with another one that has psu prob
[18:31] <Kilos> same as http://www.techspot.com/community/topics/inserting-cd-causes-system-reboot.51206/
[18:31] <Kilos> then hunted through all other pcs for a psu thats right for it
[19:02] <Kilos> Maaz coffee on
[19:02]  * Maaz washes some mugs
[19:06] <pavlushka> Maaz coffee please
[19:06] <Maaz> pavlushka: Sure
[19:06] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos and pavlushka!
[19:07] <pavlushka> Maaz, thanks, that was quick
[19:07] <Maaz> pavlushka: I'll remember that
[19:07] <Kilos> Maaz ty
[19:07] <Maaz> You are welcome Kilos
[19:23] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight