[03:17] <virtualroadside> any thoughts on how to detect whether an app is running inside of UME or not?
[03:31] <pteague> i'm guessing it'd be possible to run ubuntu-mobile under a vm?
[03:36] <virtualroadside> sure
[03:36] <virtualroadside> run it well? eh
[03:36] <virtualroadside> lol
[03:36] <virtualroadside> you can run it in a window on your desktop
[06:36] <dholbach> good morning
[07:48] <mboman> Hi
[08:24] <mboman> hi
[08:26] <mboman> I installed the UME stuff on my Ubuntu 7.10 laptop, and the mobile gui looks great. However, the standard Gnome has become ugly and almost unusable as it is missing checkboxes etc. Is there any way to run both the UME gui and standard gnome side-by-side (as different users)?
[08:27] <mboman> I am running this on my Everex Cloudbook, a C7-M powered device with a 7" display with the resolution of 800x480 pixels
[14:13] <prpplague> davidm__: hey, just a note, when you get back from CELF, TinCanTools will ship you a clear tube case for your Nail_Board
[14:14] <mboman> I installed the UME stuff on my Ubuntu 7.10 laptop, and the mobile gui looks great. However, the standard Gnome has become ugly and almost unusable as it is missing checkboxes etc. Is there any way to run both the UME gui and standard gnome side-by-side (as different users)? I am running this on my Everex Cloudbook, a C7-M powered device with a 7" display with the resolution of 800x480 pixels, and want to be able to
[14:30] <agoliveira> mboman: The problem is that the window manager used on UME (matchbox) assumes a few different things like the applications will run fullscreen for instance and the applications are not usually designed to work on such different resolution so running a standard Gnome/GTK application on UME mostly works but you will encounter problems with useability.
[14:32] <mboman> i mean that I have 2 different system accounts
[14:32] <mboman> one for the UME stuff
[14:32] <mboman> one for Gnome stuff
[14:32] <mboman> UME stuff gets a 'mobile' user that auto-login to the system etc..
[14:32] <mboman> then the other one is for more personalized usage
[14:33] <agoliveir1> mboman: Ah, never tried this but you may indeed encounter problems as they share a few gconf keys IIRC. They weren't designed to work together.
[14:34] <mboman> ok
[14:34] <mboman> I'll try it out when I get back home
[14:54] <inkynoob> Has anyone put Ubuntu Mobile on an eeePC? I'm googleing, but haven't found anything conclusive
[15:01]  * Hobbsee wonders what the case is with realplayer
[15:02] <agoliveira> inkynoob: It should work out of box except for a few things like the wifi. You will probably be able to use a kernel from ubuntu-eee project on it.
[15:02] <agoliveira> inkynoob: But I wouldn't recomend due the lack of touchscreen.
[15:03] <inkynoob> There's touchscreen kits, if Ubuntu Mobile looks like it'll work, I'd be very happy to install one :-)
[15:04] <inkynoob> I installed ubuntu-mobile from the gutsy repositories, should I be running Hardy insteady?
[15:05] <Hobbsee> oh, headdesk.
[15:06] <Hobbsee> is Brian Thomason here?
[15:09]  * Hobbsee ponders giving a comprehensive list of why this package appears to be E, B & W, or just rejecting it outright.
[15:10] <agoliveira> inkynoob: Yes and remember that UME is currently a moving target. Lot's of things are changing and fast.
[15:10] <agoliveira> inkynoob: and, BTW, we apreciate any bug reports you may add, thank you very much :)
[15:16]  * Hobbsee is told it's a partner thing.  never mind
[15:21] <inkynoob> Thanks agoliveira, I'll try it out. I don't need stable, I just need something almost stable :-) I'll report any bugs I find
[15:22] <agoliveira> inkynoob: UME is mostly stable, there's no big crashes around as it's mostly based on already stable software. You may find more things like applications that don't start due some missing configuration file, weird interface glitches, etc.
[15:23] <inkynoob> cool
[16:46] <smagoun> lool: any idea why alsa-base and alsa-utils aren't installed in your team's builds? Were they deliberately removed?
[16:58] <lool> smagoun: I don't think they were, let me check
[16:59] <lool> smagoun: They were not excluded in the seeds at least
[16:59] <lool> Meeting in one minute
[17:00] <lool> smagoun: if you discover how they are pulled on your side, I'm happy to mirror that otherwise i'll pull them via the seeds with a comment on why they are needed
[17:00] <lool> #startmeeting
[17:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 18:00. The chair is lool.
[17:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:00] <lool> Hi everybody; hope you're warm for the meeting!
[17:00] <lool> Allow me to start with last weeks actions
[17:00] <agoliveira> It's just 20°C right now but warm enough :)
[17:01] <lool> agoliveira: Good enough :)
[17:01] <lool> [topic] #
[17:01] <lool> [topic] rustyl_ to assign ppa packages updates for the new tarball based release process [cted as blocked by lool last week and the week before that...][cted][cted]
[17:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  #
[17:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  rustyl_ to assign ppa packages updates for the new tarball based release process [cted as blocked by lool last week and the week before that...][cted][cted]
[17:01] <lool> rustyl__: So I think yoy assigned remaining updates to inuka_desk, is that correct?
[17:01] <lool> On that front, I have to send you the minutes from yesterday's meeting
[17:01] <rustyl__> lool, yes
[17:01] <lool> Cool, so closing this
[17:02] <lool> (NB: The target date for the updates would be 20th / 22th the latest to be in the 24th build)
[17:02] <lool> Moving on to next topic then
[17:02] <lool> [topic] bspencer to list i18n status for Moblin project[cted][cted]
[17:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  bspencer to list i18n status for Moblin project[cted][cted]
[17:02] <bspencer> I've worked on that
[17:02] <bspencer> polled all parties
[17:02] <kyleN> :)
[17:02] <bspencer>  there are still 2-3 projects needing attention
[17:02] <lool> Cool; could you report on your findings? :)
[17:02] <lool> bspencer: Could you list them on a wiki page?  What's the plan for these modules?
[17:02] <bspencer> namely:  mobile-basic-flash.  Minimal dialogs (e.g. "Starting X app")
[17:03] <lool> Ack
[17:03] <bspencer> marquee also (clock?)
[17:03] <bspencer> yes.  I'll put them on a wiki page
[17:03] <lool> Ok; anything else on the top of your head?
[17:03] <bspencer> applets, FF, and moblin-media should be done (per their owners)
[17:03] <bspencer> one note about FF
[17:04] <bspencer> carl explained to me how l10n pkgs would need to be tweaked
[17:04] <bspencer> basically, MIDbrowser  is i18n, but the existing FF l10n pkgs won't work as-is
[17:04] <lool> asac probably has a very good idea of this
[17:04] <bspencer> they need to have a wrapper installer pkg
[17:04] <bspencer> that unpacks the originally, tweaks the ID, then installs them.
[17:04] <lool> bspencer: Could you discuss this topic with asac and cwong?
[17:05] <bspencer> I think this is asac's idea.  Yes.  I'll talk to them.
[17:05] <lool> asac has been recently working on the langpacks for firefox with the help of davidm, and I'm sure it wont be too hard to reuse this work for midbrowser
[17:05] <bspencer> yes, right.      I love action items
[17:06] <lool> I guess you can easy do that immediately after the meeting, so not sure you need an explicit action
[17:06] <bspencer> lool, doesn't hurt
[17:06] <lool> But then it would be the occasion to strike it in two minutes
[17:07] <lool> [action] (bspencer) document status of i18n of moblin modules on Ubuntu wiki; needs discussion with asac and cwong for FF
[17:07] <MootBot> ACTION received:  (bspencer) document status of i18n of moblin modules on Ubuntu wiki; needs discussion with asac and cwong for FF
[17:07] <lool> [topic] GrueMaster file a bug on helix build missing alsa support
[17:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster file a bug on helix build missing alsa support
[17:07] <lool> GrueMaster: What's the bug id?
[17:07] <GrueMaster> Filed
[17:07] <ToddBrandt> lool: what's the latest version of nm-applet in hardy? We have a few emergency bugs to fix in it and I need to pull the latest
[17:07] <GrueMaster> I'll have to look it up
[17:07]  * ToddBrandt oops, didn't know the meeting started already
[17:08] <bspencer> ToddBrandt, lool  is on fire.  Lookout.
[17:08] <lool> GrueMaster: Just open the list of bugs you filed on launchpad
[17:09] <GrueMaster> Ok, the bug is 215242
[17:09] <GrueMaster> Sorry, had browser issues.
 ToddBrandt: dpkg -S nm-applet => network-manager-gnome => rmadison network-manager-gnome </back-to-meeting>
[17:09] <lool> GrueMaster: Thanks
[17:09]  * ToddBrandt thanks
[17:09] <lool> GrueMaster: I'm not exactly sure this is what we really want to fix
[17:10] <GrueMaster> Ok.  What's your reasoning?
[17:10] <lool> GrueMaster: I guess our toplevel target is "getting sound working in helix", and the ideal way would be to use its alsa support -- do you agree?
[17:10] <lool> GrueMaster: In this case, I think we should change the way we build helix to enable alsa
[17:10] <GrueMaster> This is true, but there are still other applications that use OSS.
[17:10] <lool> if this fails, we should consider OSS, or if we have other requirements
[17:11] <lool> GrueMaster: In our builds?  If they do, they should depend on it, and we shouldn't have to pull it manually
[17:11] <GrueMaster> For example, say an end user wants wine support.
[17:11] <lool> GrueMaster: helix could also be changed to pull it (depend on it)
[17:11] <agoliveira> Is OSS is a good idea? Could introduce a series of blockings on the sound device
[17:11] <lool> GrueMaster: wine depends on libasound2; that lets me think it would suppor talsa
[17:12] <GrueMaster> There are a lot of applications that depend on oss outside of ume.
[17:12] <lool> GrueMaster: And that we don't package and care about?
[17:12]  * agoliveira thinks those should die and quick!
[17:12] <GrueMaster> As to wine, it must be fairly new.
[17:12] <GrueMaster> Yes
[17:13] <lool> GrueMaster: Perhaps we should list a couple in some place and set this an explicit goal for UME then firs
[17:13] <lool> t
[17:13] <lool> "Support OSS for non packaged random apps that users will install"
[17:13] <GrueMaster> The point is that we should be providing a stable base, and alsa-base doesn't take much room for the support it provides.
[17:14] <lool> But just starting with the fact that these aren't packaged (or improperly) and not distributed by us lets me think we shouldn't care as our top priority
[17:14] <GrueMaster> Also, I think the alsa power management tools are in alsa-base.
[17:14] <lool> That's a much more motivating rationale for using more space in the builds :)
[17:15] <GrueMaster> More space?  We're now kuibbling over a few K.
[17:15] <lool> GrueMaster: So could you either change the bug report into two bug reports; one asking for alsa support in helix builds and one asking for alsa-base to be directly included for $rationale?
[17:15] <GrueMaster> alsa-base has mainly a modprobe.conf file.
[17:16] <lool> -either
[17:17] <lool> GrueMaster: Do you agree that the two things are good and useful and that we can prioritize / discuss / implement them separately?
[17:17] <lool> GrueMaster: Do you mind if I task you with the filing of the second bug and the update of the first?  :)
[17:18] <GrueMaster> So, what you're asking me to do is file a separate bug for helix, then conjure up a justification for alsa-base, which is only a few K?  Is this correct?
[17:18] <lool> GrueMaster: That's about it; concerning alsa what matters is that we have some good understanding of why we pull it so that anyone can look it up
[17:19] <lool> If it helps save power, I'm all for it
[17:19] <GrueMaster> That would be nice to know.  Why was it pulled in the first place?
[17:19] <lool> GrueMaster: Probably as a dependency of something which moved to alsa now
[17:19] <lool> But I don't really know, I would have to dig in old stuff to find out
[17:20] <lool> GrueMaster: If that makes sense to you, I propose a couple of action items for this (IMO fast) bug work; fine with you?
[17:20] <GrueMaster> I'm still fuzzy on the whole debian/ubuntu packaging dependancy thing.
[17:20] <GrueMaster> Sure
[17:20] <lool> GrueMaster: Well I think packages which only work with OSS and not alsa should depend on OSS, that's clear
[17:21] <lool> Concerning support of non-packaged software, that's not something I know are in our current goals, but if it's something desirable we could discuss this
[17:21] <lool> But trying to guess what might be useful is a slippery slope, so it needs discussion, motivations etc.
[17:21] <lool> Ok, let's go for the actions then
[17:22] <agoliveira> lool: as in now (for imediate release) or for next release?
[17:22] <lool> [action] (GrueMaster) update #215242 to request enabling of alsa in helix builds (or a dependency on oss support in alsa)
[17:22] <MootBot> ACTION received:  (GrueMaster) update #215242 to request enabling of alsa in helix builds (or a dependency on oss support in alsa)
[17:22]  * agoliveira means discussing at UDS as in "next".
[17:23] <lool> [action] (GrueMaster) file new bug requesting addition of alsa-base to the seeds with the rationale of the power management features it provides
[17:23] <MootBot> ACTION received:  (GrueMaster) file new bug requesting addition of alsa-base to the seeds with the rationale of the power management features it provides
[17:23] <lool> GrueMaster: TIA
[17:23] <GrueMaster> TIA?
[17:24] <lool> agoliveira: I think we should try having such discussions with "high level goals" for the images at UDSes, but then easy topics/goals/features not eating up too much time and consensual in nature can be added in the middle of our dev / release cycles IMO
[17:24] <lool> GrueMaster: Thanks in advance :)
[17:24] <GrueMaster> ah
[17:24] <lool> Ok; I don't any additional action from last week
[17:24] <lool> I'm moving to the current items now
[17:25] <lool> [topic] Plans for Intel regarding UDS. agoliveira.
[17:25] <MootBot> New Topic:  Plans for Intel regarding UDS. agoliveira.
[17:25] <lool> I think this says it all
[17:25] <agoliveira> Well, self explanatory: is there any yet?
[17:25] <lool> Who from Intel is scheduled to come yet? :)
[17:26] <lool> bspencer, GrueMaster, rustyl__, ToddBrandt, inuka_desk
[17:26] <rustyl__> i don't have an answer yet... a request is going through managment
[17:26] <lool> rustyl__: Cool; do you have an idea when we can expect to know who will come?
[17:26] <lool> It's also a good time to submit topics if you didn't already
[17:27] <agoliveira> the sooner the better
[17:27] <rustyl__> i really don't know
[17:27] <rustyl__> i'm not the decision maker on this
[17:27] <lool> rustyl__: Ok; please tell us as soon as you know so that we can plan beer t-shirts and the like
[17:27] <rustyl__> the Canonical/Intel rep is working this
[17:27] <agoliveira> rustyl__: But you can post your ideas anyway, just in case.
[17:27] <lool> Oh and action items naturally
[17:27] <rustyl__> ok
[17:27] <lool> Everyone loves action items
[17:28]  * agoliveira usually runs from them :)
[17:28] <lool> Ok; anything else to discuss in today's meeting?
[17:28]  * agoliveira is ok
[17:28] <ToddBrandt> loo: one thing
[17:28] <ToddBrandt> the hardy ppa and the dependency problems
[17:28] <lool> ToddBrandt: Go ahead
[17:28] <lool> ToddBrandt: Oh right
[17:29] <lool> ToddBrandt: I was on leave when your message arrived, I resumed work yesterday and saw that this was fixed, but kept it in my TODO to discuss it with you
[17:29] <ToddBrandt> There seem to be alot of conflicts with hildon-desktop and telepathy, can we make sure everyone knows that when they upload to the PPA to upload all the dependecy upgrades first
[17:29] <GrueMaster> I sincerely doubt I'll be going anywhere.
[17:29] <lool> ToddBrandt: I'm happy to have a one to one to tell you the secret technique we share to fix these issues
[17:29] <ToddBrandt> sweet
[17:29] <lool> Just don't tell anyone
[17:29] <ToddBrandt> heh, ok
[17:30] <lool> GrueMaster: Prague!  In May!  If management doesn't allow it, take some holidays and join!
[17:30] <GrueMaster> Need $$$
[17:30] <GrueMaster> Otherwise I'd love to.
[17:31] <lool> Hmm starting a night job wont work I guess
[17:31] <lool> ToddBrandt: Let's have this next week together; on IRC or phone as you like
[17:31]  * agoliveira whishes it was a little closer and not in wedding's aniversary :(
[17:31] <GrueMaster> I already have one.  Plus I'm working on getting my degree.
[17:31] <ToddBrandt> sounds good, let's do IRC next week around wednesday ish
[17:31] <lool> [action] (ToddBrandt and lool) workshop on solving dependency issues in ppa
[17:31] <MootBot> ACTION received:  (ToddBrandt and lool) workshop on solving dependency issues in ppa
[17:31] <lool> GrueMaster: Ah, poor you
[17:32] <lool> GrueMaster: Join us over the phone then; there should be some setup for remote attendance
[17:32] <lool> Lesser quality, but doable
[17:32] <lool> Ok; I'm about to close the meeting
[17:32] <GrueMaster> Yea, but the beer isn't as good.  :P
[17:32] <lool> Anything else needing attention?
[17:32] <agoliveira> GrueMaster: We can aways get some from Belgium :)
[17:33] <GrueMaster> Still outside of my commute range.
[17:33] <lool> Okely, then I'll close the meeting; I wish you all a nice day
[17:33] <lool> #endmeeting
[17:33] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:33.
[17:33] <lool> ToddBrandt: Could you send me an email with your preferred dates for next week?  I /think/ sometime Tuesday would be good; I'm going to be on the east coast
[17:34] <ToddBrandt> lool: will do, thanks
[17:34]  * lool &
[17:42] <mawhalen> lool: I lost my link to the minutes and never can find the darn things off UME launchpad, can you please send me the link
[17:57] <ToddBrandt> asac: do you have the bandwidth to accept some patches to the 0.6.6 network-manager-applet package for hardy?
[18:16] <smagoun> lool: re: alsa. We noticed alsa-base and alsa-utils are no longer included in our builds after we resynced with hardy+ppa. We thought you or StevenK might have removed it from the seed for some reason.
[18:36] <lool> smagoun: From a quick look at the log, I don't see any message mentionning alsa
[18:36] <lool> smagoun: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.hardy/
[18:36] <lool> bzr log mobile | grep -i alsa
[18:37] <smagoun> lool: right, but StevenK deployed a new seed for the PPA
[18:37] <lool> smagoun: Oh
[18:38] <lool> smagoun: Don't see recently modified seeds at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile nor https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenk
[18:39] <lool> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/+archive?field.name_filter=ubuntu-meta&field.status_filter=published says some stuff was added
[18:39] <smagoun> lool: I think the seed is here for some reason: http://people.ubuntu.com/~stevenk/mobile/seeds/
[18:39] <lool> It must be pulling from somewhere, I wonder where
[18:40] <lool> smagoun: Anyway, it wouldn't be a removal from your pov, would it?
[18:40] <lool> Hmm unless it was dropped somewhere else than mobile
[18:41] <lool> desktop: * gstreamer0.10-alsa
[18:41] <lool> mobile: * gstreamer0.10-alsa
[18:41] <lool> Is all I see in the normal seeds, so it doesn't look like it was pulled until now
[18:41] <lool> smagoun: I suspect $random_package was pulling it indirectly; if you have an old image, you could check the rdeps of the package perhaps?
[18:41] <smagoun> lool: yes, it is a removal. We had alsa-base and alsa-utils in our image until we synced with hardy+ppa on 14April. I'm trying to figure out where it wend
[18:41] <smagoun> s/wend/went
[18:46] <lool> smagoun: Tell me if you find out more :)
[18:48] <asac> ToddBrandt: what kind of patch is that?
[18:48] <ToddBrandt> asac: three bug fixes
[18:48] <ToddBrandt> one to asdd a moko scroller to the AP list, and two to fix some behavioral issues
[18:49] <asac> my bandwidth is fully utilized ;) for today and probably tomorrow. ... if those issues are really important and the patches are not that intrusive i can take a look if we can get an exception for that
[18:49] <ToddBrandt> asac: ok, thanks
[18:49] <asac> ToddBrandt: how intrusive are those patches?
[18:50] <asac> doesn't really sound like its a single line patch
[18:50] <ToddBrandt> asac: one other question, I have created a hardy project root with the latest hardy ppa snapshot and the network-manager-applet package has a couple errors in it. Have you seen that?
[18:50] <ToddBrandt> asac: yea, the moko will be an added library and include and about a paragraph of moko insertion
[18:50] <ToddBrandt> asac: the other two should be just a few lines hopefully
[18:51] <asac> ToddBrandt: can't we push those changes to hardy ppa and intrepid?
[18:51] <asac> i plan to do that for the risky changes i have for xulrunner+midbrowser as well
[18:51] <ToddBrandt> asac: well, my plan is to build from the 0.6.6 latest, then push a version to the hardy ppa temporarily, then send you the patches for inclusion
[19:30] <pmcgowan> bspencer, thanks for the response
[19:30] <bspencer> hope it helps
[19:30] <pmcgowan> bspencer, is there a possibility of enabling and disabling moko scrolling on a per application basis?
[19:31] <bspencer> per application?  or within an application?
[19:31] <bspencer> I /wish/ that it was the default for all apps, that would be cool.
[19:31] <bspencer> but actually each app has to do extra work to get it.  So yes to your question.
[19:32] <pmcgowan> I see, so in photo viewer I could not enable it
[19:32] <pmcgowan> or only enable when zoomed
[19:32] <bspencer> right.  that is how we would want it to work.  To disable moko when not zoomed somehow.
[19:32] <pmcgowan> but you think that is tricky
[19:33] <bspencer> just unknown.  The window gets added to a moko parent widget.  You probably don't want to reparent the window every time the user zooms in/out
[19:33] <bspencer> seems cleaner to have moko understand the gesture itself, since it is already interpreting the mousemove events.
[19:34] <bspencer> although that is overloading moko, which is designed for scrolling
[19:35] <pmcgowan> hmmm, thinking
[19:35] <bspencer> one option is add a patch to moko that forwards moues events when it isn't using them for panning (width/height of content <= width/height of screen).  Then have another component do the gestures.
[19:36] <pmcgowan> right then we could just set a mode somehow?
[19:36] <bspencer> yes, or moko just auto-knows
[19:36] <bspencer> if no scroll bars needed, it switches
[19:36] <pmcgowan> right
[19:37] <pmcgowan> no scrolling to do, pass it through
[19:37] <bspencer> then there is the question of bouncing on the edge.
[19:37] <pmcgowan> ?
[19:37] <bspencer> when you get to the edge of content currently, it kind of bounces it back
[19:37] <bspencer> but when I recall, I don't think that bouncing works if there are no scroll bars.   Only when there is -- like at the end of a list.
[19:38] <pmcgowan> but it knows there is more content than fits the window
[19:38] <bspencer> yes.  So I think that strategy we just mentioned would work.
[19:39] <pmcgowan> ok, so when can you bang that out :-)
[19:39] <bspencer> as soon as mawhalen gives me the nod
[19:39] <pmcgowan> darn, was just on the phone with her
[19:39] <mawhalen> bspencer: pmcgowan ?
[19:40] <bspencer> ha!  well she's been running the feature request through many meetings here.
[19:40] <mawhalen> I haven't read the thread
[19:40] <pmcgowan> bspencer, has it all worked out
[19:40] <bspencer> mawhalen, np.  Just read pmcgowan's last few lines.
[19:40] <bspencer> starting with "ok, so when can you bang that out"
[19:40] <mawhalen> bspencer: do I need to talk to Terence?  8)
[19:40] <mawhalen> no - really - do I need to do something here?
[19:41] <bspencer> mawhalen,   we were trying to scope what the work would be for gestures
[19:41] <bspencer> your favorite subject
[19:41] <mawhalen> bspencer: I just saw the word gestures...
[19:41] <bspencer> that's the extent of the discussion.
[19:41] <mawhalen> bspencer: you can always scope it
[19:42] <bspencer> pmcgowan, just throw bfiller on it.  We accept patches
[19:42] <pmcgowan> bspencer, given we have the old code, seems like we could restore it in a resaonably short time?
[19:42] <pmcgowan> bfiller took 4 days off, the nerve
[19:42] <bspencer> pmcgowan, not so easy.    The old code conflicts with moko.  And it has no rotate support
[19:43] <pmcgowan> it did have rotate support?
[19:44] <bspencer> I don't think so.  Just left/right.    Maybe I'm wrong, I didn't spend much time on it -- just found the place we removed it.
[19:44] <pmcgowan> no, I used it, worked great
[19:44] <pmcgowan> thats why customers liked it
[19:44] <pmcgowan> well seems like a change to photoviewer to restore the code, and a change to moko to pass through events if no scrolling is needed
[19:45] <bspencer> yep.
[19:45] <pmcgowan> is it easy to identify the old code in the tree, or can you extract and send the relevant file to me?
[19:46] <pmcgowan> mawhalen, or can you assign an engineer to do what I just wrote?
[19:48] <bspencer> pmcgowan, I can point you to the date when the code was removed.  anyone can pull the code from the git repository
[19:48] <bspencer> praj,
[19:49] <pmcgowan> bspencer, mawhalen is not answering my staffing request
[19:50] <bspencer> pmcgowan, she's a talented program manager
[19:50] <pmcgowan> indeed
[19:50] <bspencer> I can get you the info you need to get the gesture code from git, Yes.
[19:50] <bspencer> via praj.
[19:50] <bspencer> praj-laptop,
[19:51] <pmcgowan> bspencer, who works on the moko stuff for you?
[19:51] <bspencer> frank li has done all that work.  PRC guy
[19:52] <pmcgowan> so can he make the change to conditionally not consume the events?
[19:54] <bspencer> pmcgowan, you still need to work with mawhalen.  Everyone is working on other things.  :-\   But he /could/ do that, if he were given that to do, yes.
[19:54] <mawhalen> bspencer: pmcgowan talking to folks in my cube -
[19:54] <mawhalen> we do not have por to do gestures
[19:55] <pmcgowan> that darn por again
[19:55] <pmcgowan> who do I have to bribe?
[19:55] <mawhalen> pmcgowan: i've had many an internal conversation
[19:55] <mawhalen> bribe craig
[19:55] <pmcgowan> he doesnt code
[19:56] <pmcgowan> mawhalen, so are you saying its out of your hands, is there someone I should escalate to?
[19:56] <pmcgowan> mawhalen, I think its less than a day of work
[19:56] <mawhalen> yes, that is what I was trying to say
[19:56] <mawhalen> pmcgowan: not what I hear, don't always trust Bob
[19:57] <pmcgowan> we just simplified the design :-)
[19:57] <mawhalen> actually - a really good starting point would be for someone to make use cases
[19:57] <mawhalen> i don't want any ambigious requirements
[19:58] <pmcgowan> mawhalen, what it used to do is the use case, it was fine
[19:58] <mawhalen> really - out of my hands and I have a meeting in 2 minutes in another building, so must take off...
[19:58] <pmcgowan> ok, later
[19:58] <mawhalen> you'll have to keep talking to bspencer


[07:51] <dholbach> good morning
[07:55] <philipballew> morning dholbach
[08:03] <dholbach> hey philipballew
[08:06] <elfy> morning dholbach philipballew
[08:06] <philipballew> morning, Whats everyone up to?
[08:06] <elfy> trying very hard to wake up
[08:07] <dholbach> hi elfy
[08:07] <philipballew> ah, I am trying hard to not fall asleep. Got to be up late working on some java
[08:08] <philipballew> hope your morning is going well elfy
[08:10] <elfy> well so far I have smoked too much and not drunk enough tea
[08:10] <elfy> so it could be better :)
[08:10] <philipballew> haha.
[08:10] <philipballew> got a runtime error now I'm diagnosing with some java
[08:11] <elfy> mmmm voodoo
[08:11] <philipballew> "Hey, I want to spend my night with Java" -- said noone ever
[10:53] <alourie> hello
[10:59] <philipballew> alourie, hello
[12:11] <philipballew> czajkowski, loving the use of the word "blokes" dont see that often here in ca
[12:11] <czajkowski> well tis what they are
[12:11] <czajkowski> where as I guess I'd go hey guys for mixed company
[12:11] <czajkowski> but blokes is referring to just men
[12:11] <philipballew> yeah, you never here that here.
[12:12] <philipballew> in CA, most people use guys  to mean all people.
[12:12]  * philipballew needs to learn British words.
[12:15] <philipballew> 4:15 am here. Might be about time for bed
[12:17] <czajkowski> ya think!
[12:41] <dholbach> Happy Ubuntu Community Appreciation Day! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UCADay
[12:41]  * dholbach needs to write a blog post too
[12:41]  * smartboyhw goes and sends a lot of emails
[12:42] <czajkowski> I'd appreciate less emails :)
[12:46] <daker> ok i'll start from the end : thank you daker for your work :D
[12:46] <smartboyhw> daker, LOL
[15:59] <philipballew> morning
[16:03] <elfy> good sleep was it philipballew :)
[16:08] <philipballew> elfy, ehh, maybe it would have been if it was not only like 2.5 hours.
[16:08] <elfy> didn't like to mention that ...
[16:09] <philipballew> I can sleep on my plane tonight after my days ends in about 12 hours elfy
[16:10] <philipballew> till then, lets see how hard this coffee will take me
[16:10] <elfy> sounds like loads of fun :(
[16:10]  * elfy doesn't sleep too well but I'd be a grumpy gnu with 2.5 hours of it
[16:11] <philipballew> gotta do what you gotta do
[16:12] <elfy> generally yea - such is life :)
[17:36] <dholbach> I <3 Ubuntu Community Appreciation Day
[17:36] <dholbach> it's such a great idea
[17:37] <dholbach> and I finally got my own blog post out
[17:37] <dholbach> for some reason I thought it was on Thursday
[17:38] <pleia2> thursday is a holiday here
[17:39] <dholbach> maybe that's why I thought it was there
[17:39] <dholbach> *shrug*
[17:39] <mhall119> dholbach: it's a day that starts with T, close enough
[17:39] <dholbach> mhall119, you need to be happy about the small things, right?
[17:40] <pleia2> mhall119: and has to do with Thanks!
[17:40] <pleia2> very similar ;)
[17:40] <mhall119> exactly
[17:43] <dholbach> alright - time to call it a day over here
[17:43] <dholbach> see you all tomorrow!
[18:27] <jcastro_> hey mhall119, IS is pinging me for the site, I'd like to manually trigger that mysql dump if I can
[18:30] <mhall119> jcastro_: there's a mkdump script in the ubuntu user's home folder
[18:30] <mhall119> just run that
[18:31] <jcastro_> ta
[18:32] <mhall119> np
[20:36] <daker> FYI i accept ingress invites for the UCD :)
[20:37] <czajkowski> UCD?
[20:38] <daker> Ubuntu Community Appreciation Day
[20:38] <daker> UCAD
[20:38] <czajkowski> ah
[20:39] <czajkowski> UCD to me is University College Dublin :)
[20:39] <daker> hhhh


[00:13] <pjotter> I just tried gedit. It too has these weird grey bands on the top and bottom window while scrolling. Anyone know what is causing this?
[00:14] <mrkramps> sounds like a graphics card issue
[00:15] <pjotter> Unlikely. I have the same issue on another computer with a different architecture and video card.
[00:15] <pjotter> I suspect this has something to do with the whole gtk3 thing?
[00:16] <mrkramps> pjotter, xfce compositor is enabled?
[00:18] <pjotter> compositor on/off doesn't make any difference
[00:18] <pjotter> it was on btw
[00:19] <pjotter> Just to make sure the problem is clear: When I open mousepad and open a file that exeeds the height of the screen end use the scrollbar on the side of the window, two grey areas appear on the top and bottom inside of the mousepad window.
[00:20] <pjotter> When I use cursor down, at some point the cursor disappears underneath the grey area. Same when I use the cursor to go up.
[00:20] <pjotter> I just checked. This issue is not in 3.0 (trusty). Only in 4.0+
[00:21] <mrkramps> but happens with gedit too
[00:21] <pjotter> Maybe I'm missing something and this is some new kind of feature?
[00:21] <pjotter> Yes, the newer versions of gedit exhibit the same thing.
[00:22] <mrkramps> well, ok … confirmed
[00:23] <pjotter> You have it too?
[00:24] <mrkramps> but those are not grey bars, but rather some blurry partially transparent bars when reaching document end or beginning when scrolling
[00:24] <knome> that'll happen with the pdf reader as well.
[00:25] <pjotter> Could have something to do with the theme? Mine are solid grey
[00:25] <knome> it denotes that you are at the end/beginning of the document
[00:25] <knome> they shouldn't stay visible
[00:25] <knome> it's a gtk3 feature
[00:26] <mrkramps> pjotter, yes it is themeable with gtk3
[00:29] <pjotter> So, what gtk3 theme would work well? Any suggestions?
[00:30] <knome> "work well" is subjective here.
[00:30] <knome> besides, i've told you before that there aren't really so many great gtk3 themes around yet
[00:32] <mrkramps> what's wrong with greybird?
[00:32] <pjotter> I don't like it
[00:32] <pjotter> Personal preference
[01:12] <xubuntu99w> help
[01:13] <xubuntu99w> Cannot access my root folder. Please help how to do this. New user first time on other than Windows. Appreciate the help.
[01:15] <xubuntu99w> Also do not know how to look up which Xubuntu version I am using.
[01:16] <knome> xubuntu99w, why do you need to access your root directory?
[01:16] <knome> xubuntu99w, "lsb_release -a" without the quotes in a terminal tells you the version you are running
[01:17] <xubuntu99w> I am trying to install files from other than the software center, and will not allow me to do it. I tried all the help online, but cannot find any way to download and install .tar.gz files
[01:18] <knome> xubuntu99w, what is it you are trying to install then?
[01:19] <GeekDude> xubuntu99w: A quick note, .tar.gz files are just an alternative to .zip files and are not necessarily software
[01:19] <xubuntu99w> thank you looked up release is Ububtu 14.04 LTS trusty; I woul need to update the Adobe flash player and Modzilla Firefox since not working
[01:20] <GeekDude> When you were installing Ubuntu there was a checkbox for 'nonfree' software. If you checked that, flash may have been installed automatically. Have you tried testing to see if flash is laredy installed?
[01:21] <xubuntu99w> I know how to extract, I seen some videos telling that the .so file is the one needed to install; no terminal exercise shown in videos allow me installation.
[01:22] <GeekDude> xubuntu99w: there's no reason to install it manually, it should either already be installed or be available via a package
[01:22] <xubuntu99w> when installed Xubuntu; I had options to check updates online and 3rd party drivers. Both were checked, I did not see any other option to nonfree
[01:22] <GeekDude> 3rd party is the one I think
[01:23] <GeekDude> xubuntu99w: If you open your terminal and run 'dpkg -l | grep flash', does the output list 'flashplugin-installer'?
[01:27] <xubuntu99w> thank you- run terminal, comes with flashplugin-installer <IP_ADDRESS>2ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>, what do I need to do next to install?
[01:27] <GeekDude> It should already be set up and working then
[01:27] <GeekDude> What do you see when you go to http://www.adobe.com/software/flash/about/ ?
[01:28] <GeekDude> My FireFox tells me "You have version 11,2,202,632 installed"
[01:29] <xubuntu99w> this is the version that is listed, however I cannot play anything in browser, it is telling me to go install newer version.
[01:29] <GeekDude> There is no newer version available for Linux/Firefox
[01:30] <GeekDude> However, Chrome (not sure if Chromium as well) has a custom implementation of flash that works with Linux
[01:30] <xubuntu99w> may I ask, can you run movies with your version? is thre anything I need to add to firefox or do anything so I can play the movies as well?
[01:31] <GeekDude> I use Chrome, and even then I don't play flash movies. HTML5 streaming is where it's at
[01:31] <xubuntu99w> OK can you help me once I have the files downloaded for Chromium what and how to code in the terminal to install new versions?
[01:31] <GeekDude> xubuntu99w: https://www.google.com/chrome/browser/desktop/index.html
[01:32] <GeekDude> Hit download chrome, accept/install, then run that file. It should open in the software center where you can install it. No terminal necessary
[01:32] <xubuntu99w> would a 64 bit work on a 32bit old junk?
[01:33] <GeekDude> Unfortunately not
[01:34] <xubuntu99w> so the download of any install program will use the same method; download (and if no install button line this) how to I install on my computer?
[01:35] <knome> no. unless you install from the repositories, there's no guarantee that anything will work in the same way.
[01:36] <xubuntu99w> can you elaborate on how to install with the repositories? Sorry I am so new, but so excited about the platform that I would like to learn more. I was great with DOS coding back 20 some years ago, it is time to learn Xubuntu coding as well. The root access i aasked since I am the sole user of the computer and would like to learn more about it
[01:36] <knome> you don't need root access to learn about your computer
[01:36] <knome> i mean, access to the root filesystem.
[01:37] <knome> installing from repositories means installing via software found in the menu
[01:37] <knome> (or any other package manager)
[01:37] <xubuntu99w> I assume haveing root access will allow me to pull files into the right system folder to work.
[01:38] <knome> generally, you shouldn't need to do that.
[01:38] <GeekDude> I never manually pull files into system folders
[01:38] <xubuntu99w> Thank you for your time, do you have a web blog or any other informational place I can go and learn more about how to use the terminal and what are the codes to enter for install, clean drive, optimize and such?
[01:39] <knome> i would warmly suggest making yourself comfortable with the GUI first
[01:39] <xubuntu99w> anything I have seen on youtube and tried nothing has worked on my end when editing the terminal entries
[01:39] <knome> regarding what?
[01:40] <xubuntu99w> get application; install application if not in the software center; or other software that would be available other places but will not install without terminal codes.
[01:41] <xubuntu99w> like how to look up a version or installed application
[01:41] <knome> as i said, there is no single list of things you need to do to install packages or applications that are not in the repositories
[01:42] <xubuntu99w> Thank you, I guess I need to start gathering information and try see what is working on my end. Appreciate the time and support, hope you have a great day. LOVE Xubuntu by the way, and will continue learn more every day.
[01:43] <knome> for packages installed from the repositories "apt show $packagename" gives you more information you need
[01:45] <xubuntu99w> Tahnk you much, Good night
[04:16] <eduin> hola
[06:10] <namespace> So why *does* the cursor disappear on lock, anyway?
[06:10] <namespace> (In 16.04, of course.)
[06:23] <ochosi> namespace: bug in the intel driver, version from yakkety fixes it
[06:23] <namespace> Ah.
[06:25] <flocculant> namespace: SRU being worked on for 16.04
[06:26] <flocculant> no - I don't when it will get there ;)
[06:29] <namespace> Well I'd offer to help, but I have zero experience with that particular brand of programming.
[06:29] <namespace> So I doubt I can.
[06:50] <Canoflysol> hello all
[06:50] <Canoflysol> had a question
[06:51] <Canoflysol> does such a program exist for xubuntu 14.04 like this one? ifunbox
[07:30] <xubuntu041> Greetings. Installing 14.04.5.
[07:31] <Unit193> ...Installing 14.04 now?
[07:32] <xubuntu041> If this doesn't work, might try 16.04. Workinig on an audio distro.
[07:33] <xubuntu041> Just need something stable to build a low-latency system on.
[07:34] <xubuntu041> I've made attempts with Mate 15.10 and 16.04. 15.10 works pretty well.
[07:35] <xubuntu041> xfce has usually been my environment for a couple years but I wanted to see if I could get better performance elsewhere; it's a netbook. Gateway LT20.
[07:36] <xubuntu041> Unity seems to be a bit heavy for this box. It responds better with Mate and I have to wait and see about xfce. Should be about done installing now.
[07:36] <xubuntu041> Anybody here have experience with JACK audio?
[07:38] <cfhowlett> xubuntu041, please avoid "anybody ..." question structure.  waste of time.
[07:38] <cfhowlett> the big factor will be ram
[07:41] <cfhowlett> xubuntu041, #opensourcemusicians will have lots of jack gurus
[08:04] <Canoflysol> i upgraded to 16.04 but it crashed on me so i went back to 14.04
[08:05] <Canoflysol> i wonder what caused it
[08:05] <Canoflysol> im on a dell dimension 3000
[08:06] <Canoflysol> what should i be using?
[08:06] <cfhowlett> Canoflysol, too little information to do anything except make wild guesses ... which i do not do.
[08:06] <Canoflysol> yeah lol
[08:07] <Canoflysol> good point
[08:07] <Canoflysol> but yeah 16 is hella laggy for me for some reason
[08:09] <Canoflysol> and plus i still have the intel extreme graphics 2 onboard
[08:09] <Canoflysol> which im sure is the main problem
[08:35] <xubuntu14i> any suppport atm?
[08:38] <xubuntu14i> trying to install xubuntu 32bit to a acer aspire one intel atom 1.6GHZ if not mistaken ...but im installing it to a usb 2.0 as my harddrive is on verge of fritzing out ....i guess my question more or less is can it be done and should it work cause i tryed ubuntu 14.04.5 and 16.04 non worked do to factor of ghrapics they went all funky
[08:39] <xubuntu14i> lame where the support @
[08:39] <xubuntu14i> guess i can run live boot the rest my life XD
[08:42] <xubuntu14i> lulz
[08:42] <Guest58851> NEWB ALERT!  LoL
[08:43] <Guest58851> Sooo .. I need to get my sound card working ... how do I download and install the jack server and add ons??
[08:43] <xubuntu14i> no support for u XD
[08:46] <karatedog> Installation fails with a known mmc error, then I get a character login page, with the username: 'it'. Anyone knows what is the password for this? Blank enter, 'xubuntu' did not work.
[08:52] <Guest58851> karatedog > Do you know what I need to do to get my sund card working?
[08:53] <Guest58851> I know I need jack and maybe a driver but I don't know how to load them
[08:54] <karatedog> no idea
[08:55] <karatedog> I dunno what 'jack server' is, I thought you only need a driver. What is your sound card?
[08:55] <karatedog> I mean what brand and type
[08:56] <Guest58851> I just dpownloaded PulseAudio and extracted it to a DIR ... what now?
[08:56] <Guest58851> oops .. SoundBlaster Audigy 2
[08:57] <Guest58851> I need it for the SoundFonts that this card works with nd Rosegarden can use ... but I need to get the sound card recognised ...
[09:00] <Guest58851> I guess I'm here at the wrong time
[09:01] <karatedog> dude, are we talking about a 14 year old soundcard?
[09:04] <Guest58851> yes ... one that uses SoundFonts ... I use MIDI with these sound fonts to make music and record
[09:09] <karatedog> Did you install 64 bit OS?
[09:10] <karatedog> because I doubt anyone wrote specific 64-bit driver for this card, I dunno if there is a general driver, then maybe ALSA supports it.
[09:11] <knome> Guest58851, so what does "my sound card doesn't work" mean?
[09:11] <knome> Guest58851, you're hearing no sound?
[09:12] <karatedog> just wanted to ask the same question
[09:12] <Guest58851> I dunno ... I get a little beep or a little chirp oncei n a while but I don't know if its the computer speaker or what
[09:13] <knome> Guest58851, open the volume control, go to the tab "Configuration" and see if your sound card is listed there
[09:13] <Guest58851> SoundGarden uses SoundFonts ... they are little samples of music instruments that this card uses to plug into MIDI music and make it sound real ... VERY real ...
[09:14] <Guest58851> ok .. where is the volume control?
[09:15] <knome> in the menu, or alternatively run it by pressing alt+f2 and running 'pavucontrol'
[09:17] <Guest58851> ok .. got it ... I have playback but not recording
[09:18] <knome> yes, that's not what i asked though
[09:19] <Guest58851> volume control shows that it is receiving the mic input but still no output
[09:20] <Guest58851> pulseaudio is a package that is supposed to fix this?  I have downloaded the files and extracted them but I don't know what to do with the,
[09:20] <Guest58851> *them
[09:21] <Guest58851>  pulseaudio-9.0.tar.xz
[09:22] <Guest58851> I tried to upgrade Flash driver to no success too  :-( ...
[09:22] <Guest58851> and thankx for that tip about ALT-F2 ...
[09:23] <knome> pulseaudio is already installed on your system
[09:24] <Guest58851> oh?  umm ... really?
[09:24] <knome> and most often, you really don't need to download any package and install them manually
[09:24] <knome> yes, pavucontrol is pulseaudio's volume control app
[09:24] <Guest58851> ok ... absolute beginner with Linux ... sorry to seem studpi ...
[09:24] <knome> so please ask my question
[09:24] <knome> is your sound card listed in the configuration tab?
[09:27] <Guest58851> yes it is ... but not the REAL name ...
[09:28] <Guest58851> or not the one I was used to in Windows never mind .. tis there
[09:28] <knome> ok, so what does the profile dropdown say?
[09:29] <Guest58851> its now at Analog Surround 5.1 Output + Analog Stereo Input
[09:29] <knome> try changing that and see if it starts working with another profile
[09:30] <Guest58851> K .. why does it now show the Line-IN port?
[09:30] <knome> why wouldn't it?
[09:32] <Guest58851> it ony has Microphone Input .. there should be mic and LINE-IN
[09:32] <Guest58851> hmmm ... I had a great set of drivers for this card ... but they are old too and I was using XP Pro to great success ...
[09:33] <Guest58851> OK .. thankx so much for your help ...
[09:34] <Guest58851> I now need to figure out how to get JackServer working and then use the QtlJack so I can start recording with Rosegarden
[09:43] <Guest58851> OK ... works now .. thankx so much!!
[09:44] <Guest58851> with Audacity .. need Rosegarden to work then its cool!
[09:44] <Guest58851> Cheers Knome! Thankx for your help!!
[15:22] <xubuntu61w> hi, is it safe to updgrade from 14.04.1 LTS to 16.04.1 LTS?
[15:24] <xubuntu61w> no one here?
[15:31] <flocculant> not immediately no ...
[16:05] <Codfection> why my plank is not running automatically after restarting
[16:05] <Codfection> xubuntu!!!!!!
[16:43] <PhoenixSTF> hey guys, anyof you got keepass2 running on 16.04???
[17:52] <bones7> hi. can you please help? i use xubuntu 16.04 on a samsung ativ book 7 and sometimes the screen resolution kind of "resets" - it changes to a higher resolution (not sharp), i can get the screen down and up with the mouse curser. Why does it happen? Any idea? In between: my ativ book got 2 graphic cards, an onboard and a AMD HD8570M.
[17:54] <bones7> i had the same problem with xubuntu 14.04 before.
[18:02] <PhoenixSTF> bones7: check if you have problems with fglrx or RADEON drivers
[18:07] <bones7> thank you! i'll try and let you know
[18:07] <flocculant> fglrx is deprecated
[18:08] <flocculant> "When upgrading to Ubuntu 16.04 from a previous release, both the fglrx driver and the xorg.conf will be removed, so that the system is set to use either the amdgpu driver or the radeon driver (depending on the available hardware). "
[22:42] <RayBanStan> lo
[22:54] <CHVNX> and behold