[05:00] <Mirv> not sure who are around today, not the US folks at least, but filed a bug about autopilot tests for the unity(7) stack bug #1219636
[05:01] <Mirv> bregma: ^ (when you're around, it seems that bug is here to stay for now ie. not random)
[05:14] <veebers> Mirv: I'm approaching EOD but I can take a quick look. To confirm, if I had a VM to try and reproduce on I would add the ppa 'ppa:ubuntu-unity/daily-build' and dist-upgrade ?
[05:16] <Mirv> veebers: yes, that's the correct PPA
[05:16] <veebers> Mirv: cheers
[05:40] <veebers> Mirv: hey, re: the test and the mouse move, was there a video for that failing test?
[05:44] <veebers> Mirv: Failing me being able to re-produce the bug, there should probably be checks in autopilot for infinite mouse movement loops (I thought there was already)
[05:44] <veebers> if not today, I'll propose something for autopilot adding that
[06:19] <Mirv> veebers: no video, I just checked that not even with the one run that ran for 7200 seconds until it self-aborted (http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/job/autopilot-saucy-daily_release/1483/label=autopilot-intel/)
[06:19] <Mirv> (and sorry, some flakiness in Internet connection today
[06:25] <veebers> Mirv: nw, cheers
[08:22] <mzanetti> seb128: hi
[08:22] <mzanetti> seb128: what do you think about my reply on the mail?
[08:22] <seb128> mzanetti, hey
[08:22] <seb128> mzanetti, we already have a way to customize defaults, that's https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-settings
[08:24] <mzanetti> seb128: so we 'd need a second version of this package for touch, right?
[08:26] <seb128> mzanetti, if we want different defaults on touch and ubuntu yes
[08:26] <seb128> mzanetti, but I though the goal was convergence, having one image, same device being a phone and desktop once docked
[08:26] <mzanetti> seb128: I really need that for the phone
[08:27] <mzanetti> seb128: so you're saying we should either have libreoffice on the phone's launcher or remove it from the desktop one?
[08:27] <seb128> yes
[08:27] <seb128> what happen to your phone once docked
[08:27] <seb128> do you expect libreoffice to appear then?
[08:27] <mzanetti> and what about the dialer app? have that in the desktop launchers all the time?
[08:28] <seb128> well, the issue your describe there is not as easy as "default"
[08:28] <seb128> you want to launcher content to change depending on the screen resolution
[08:28] <seb128> and the hardware available
[08:28] <seb128> and the docking status
[08:28] <seb128> the launcher content*
[08:29] <seb128> you don't want libreoffice on your phone launcher
[08:29] <seb128> but once you dock that phone it becomes a desktop
[08:29] <mzanetti> seb128: no... I don't want the launcher's content to change when the screen resolution changes
[08:29] <seb128> then you want it
[08:29] <seb128> so you converged desktop wouldn't have libreoffice when used in desktop mode?
[08:29] <seb128> converged device*
[08:29] <mzanetti> seb128:  no
[08:30] <seb128> why not?
[08:30] <seb128> that seems buggy
[08:30] <mzanetti> well, it's there and can launch it, but not in the launcher as pinned app
[08:30] <mzanetti> unless I pin it myself in there.
[08:30] <seb128> why not? we have it on the desktop today as pinned
[08:30] <seb128> that seems like a desktop regression
[08:30] <mzanetti> seb128: I only want to ship that config on phones
[08:30] <seb128> there is no "phones"
[08:31] <mzanetti> there is
[08:31] <seb128> there is a convergence story
[08:31] <seb128> on day your phone is going to be a desktop once docked
[08:31] <seb128> one day*
[08:31] <mzanetti> yes.... but still we ship it as a phone
[08:31] <mzanetti> and there we don't want libreoffice in the launcher
[08:31] <seb128> with a desktop...
[08:32] <mzanetti> if the user goes home, docks it and drags office to the panel. fine
[08:32] <seb128> the desktop should be full featured and similar to our current desktop once used as a desktop
[08:32] <seb128> you are making desktop users second class citizen there
[08:32] <seb128> saying "let's make the desktop experience less good, if they want they can fix it themself by hand"
[08:33] <mzanetti> no... if you install your pc at home you will have that stuff in there
[08:33] <mzanetti> but you won't have the phone app
[08:33] <seb128> that's not really convergence
[08:33] <seb128> that's having 2 OS, 2 images
[08:33] <mzanetti> not 2 images
[08:33] <seb128> that's not what we are aiming for
[08:33] <mzanetti> just 2 different sets of configs
[08:33] <mzanetti> default configs
[08:33] <seb128> right, so 2 images
[08:33] <seb128> one with a desktop config and one with a phone config
[08:33] <mzanetti> yes... we weill have multiple images anyway
[08:34] <seb128> that's a fail if we get there imho
[08:34] <seb128> but anyway, that's not for v1 in any case
[08:34] <mzanetti> we already have multiple images now. 4 for the desktop + 4 for the phone btw
[08:34] <seb128> no, we have 1 for the desktop
[08:34] <seb128> on different archs
[08:36] <greyback> why not ship 1 image, with multiple configs available, including configs for each platform we support, and the config is dynamically chosen by shell at runtime
[08:36] <seb128> mzanetti, well, anyway, I'm pretty sure some people have been asking for dynamic configs key, where the value change according to the form factor
[08:37] <seb128> mzanetti, e.g Saviq asked for gsettings key where you can have a value for phone mode and one for desktop mode and where the value you get changes once you dock the device
[08:37] <seb128> but that's another discussion
[08:37] <mzanetti> *that* is violating convergence imho
[08:37] <seb128> mzanetti, let's start with the ubuntu-touch-settings
[08:38] <seb128> mzanetti, the problem with those -settings approch, is that they conflicts, you can't install 2 overrides, you have to pick 1 (or 1 win at the end anyway)
[08:38] <seb128> so you that defeats convergence goal as well
[08:38] <seb128> mzanetti, can you send me a list of keys you want changed, I'm going to upload that ubuntu-touch-settings today
[08:45] <greyback> mzanetti: hey, for tablet, since we can have 2 applications open simultaneously and both have "focus", the launcher will then indicate both apps are focused, right?
[08:45] <mzanetti> seb128: sent you a mail
[08:45] <mzanetti> greyback: I'd say yes
[08:45] <seb128> mzanetti, thanks
[08:45] <mzanetti> greyback: are they really both focused?
[08:45] <seb128> mzanetti, no background image change?
[08:45] <mzanetti> ?
[08:46] <mzanetti> seb128: which background?
[08:46] <seb128> mzanetti, org.gnome.desktop.background picture-uri
[08:46] <seb128> unity wallpaper image
[08:46] <mzanetti> greyback: I don't think we need to change that one, do we?
[08:46] <seb128> we currently rely on the code fallback, because the default image is invalid
[08:46] <mzanetti> err... seb128^
[08:46] <greyback> mzanetti: not really. Keyboard input only goes to one
[08:47] <mzanetti> greyback: yeah. that's what I meant
[08:47] <greyback> mzanetti: it does maybe introduce a tiny bit of confusion, as the model can have 2 "focused" applications, but yet there's only one "focusedApplication"
[08:48] <mzanetti> greyback: not an issue imho... need to state it clears in the api docs tho
[08:48] <mzanetti> clearly
[08:49] <greyback> mzanetti: yep that'd work. Was considering renaming the model role to "active" just to make clearer divide between the concepts
[08:49] <mzanetti> seb128: hmm... do I need to know background image thingie today? I guess it would require shipping the image with the other background pictures etc
[08:50] <seb128> mzanetti, no, that's fine, let's start by just the launcher config
[08:50] <mzanetti> greyback: would be fine with that too.
[08:50] <mzanetti> seb128: thanks
[08:50] <seb128> yw
[08:50] <seb128> mhr3, hey
[08:50] <mzanetti> seb128: you will just install some override for it, right?
[08:50] <seb128> mzanetti, correct
[08:50] <mzanetti> awesome
[08:51] <seb128> mzanetti, same as ubuntu-settings is doing on the desktop
[08:51] <seb128> with a different config
[08:51]  * mzanetti doesn't really know much about dconf
[08:51] <seb128> don't worry about it, it's going to just work ;-)
[08:52] <mzanetti> that was my plan :)
[08:56] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: ok, i can repro some of the problem in my testcase and it's LVWPH specific (at least this one)
[08:56] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: having a look
[09:02]  * greyback has errand to run, back in about an hour
[09:02] <mhr3> seb128, morning
[09:04] <seb128> mhr3, hey, how are you?
[09:06] <mhr3> seb128, not bad, not bad, but you know... monday... need to kickstart yourself :)
[09:06] <seb128> mhr3, hehe, don't tell me!
[09:06] <seb128> mhr3, I've a bug for you, maybe that can help to kickstart ;-)
[09:07] <seb128> mhr3, my lenses are showing untranslated in unity7 ... is that a known issue?
[09:10] <mhr3> seb128, all of them?
[09:10] <mhr3> i was actually doing some po fixes in home scope
[09:11] <mhr3> so i wonder if i actually broke it
[09:11] <mhr3> seb128, or was it not working for a while?
[09:12] <pstolowski> tsdgeos: ok, thanks for update!
[09:15] <seb128> mhr3, yeah, none is translated it seems, and dunno when that started, I tend to not be too picky about having english on my screen
[09:15] <seb128> mhr3, where are the strings supposed to come from?
[09:16] <seb128> mhr3, e.g "gettext -d unity-lens-applications "Installed"" returns a french string
[09:16] <seb128> but it's showing in english in the UI
[09:16] <mhr3> seb128, home scope
[09:18] <seb128> mhr3, but applications.scope has Domain=unity-lens-applications
[09:19] <mhr3> seb128, but what you see is coming from the master scope, and that is defined in home-scope
[09:22] <seb128> mhr3, ok, I guess that's the problem then, those strings are not translated there
[09:22] <mhr3> seb128, yey, i just successfully delegated stuff to translator team :)
[09:23] <seb128> lol
[10:18] <seb128> mzanetti, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-settings/13.10.4
[10:19] <seb128> mzanetti, just installing unity-touch-settings should give you the launcher defaults
[10:19] <seb128> mzanetti, wget https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-settings/13.10.4/+build/4926146/+files/ubuntu-touch-settings_13.10.4_all.deb if you want to try it
[10:25] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: ok, i've found the two problems, there was one in LVWPH and another in GenereicScopeView
[10:26] <tsdgeos> the one in GenereicScopeView i'm not sure i've fixed properly yet
[10:26] <pstolowski> tsdgeos: awesome
[10:47] <dednick> larsu: good morning.
[10:56] <mzanetti> greyback: what do you think where the desktop file parser should be located?
[10:56] <mzanetti> greyback: or better: where do you need to use it from?
[10:57] <greyback> mzanetti: I use it in unity-mir, in the application manager.
[10:57] <greyback> mzanetti: separate library with it's own package would be nicest IMO
[10:58] <mzanetti> probably, yes...
[10:58] <mzanetti> Wellark: ^
[11:01] <Wellark> greyback, mzanetti: we would not want to introduce gazillion of small libraries, though..
[11:01] <Wellark> on their own packages that is
[11:01] <Wellark> greyback: could it live in ubuntu-mir?
[11:02] <mzanetti> all the other projects I know are splitting their code into gazillions of small libraries right now
[11:02] <Wellark> above should be "on their own *source* packages"
[11:02] <Wellark> binary packages are ok
[11:04] <greyback> Wellark: it doesn't quite belong to unity-mir, as reading desktop files not a mir specific request. And other tools like ubuntu-software-center might want to be able to read desktop files maybe?
[11:06] <larsu> dednick: hi!
[11:09] <dednick> larsu: hi. just wanted to follow up on that messaging action issue i was having.
[11:11] <larsu> dednick: ah right, I applied that but never commites/pushed. Sorry about that.
[11:12] <larsu> dednick: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/indicator-messages/remove-root-parameter/+merge/183426
[11:19] <dednick> larsu: cool. Anything about why reply isnt working?
[11:20] <larsu> dednick: that's next on my list, currently trying to figure out #1217676
[11:22] <dednick> larsu: that may be something in the unity8 side.
[11:23] <dednick> larsu: i think the qmenumodels unity8 "flattening" model is resetting when you add-remove messages.
[11:23] <dednick> could be what's causing it
[11:25] <dednick> larsu: a problem which should be sidestepped in the unitymenumodel version.
[11:26] <larsu> dednick: yeah I had the feeling this could be it, but I'm not seeing it with qmenumodel when running on my desktop.
[11:27] <larsu> dednick: I just made sure though, the service definitely doesn't clear the items. Let me try with your branch
[11:28] <dednick> larsu: i'm not sure the clear will work with my branch (i think it may suffer same problem as reply)
[11:29] <dednick> larsu: it will remove the item from the list, but may not actually call into the backend.
[11:30] <larsu> dednick: heh, I guess I'll be looking into that issue first, then :)
[11:30] <dednick> larsu: see what i did there? ;) tricked you into doing that first. haha
[11:31] <larsu> haha, clever ;)
[11:33] <mzanetti> seb128: I've tested your package. works fine
[11:33] <seb128> mzanetti, great
[11:33] <mzanetti> seb128: is this already in the image? or when will it land?
[11:33] <seb128> mzanetti, it needs to be seeded
[11:33] <mzanetti> that means in terms of timeline?
[11:33] <mzanetti> > a week?
[11:33] <seb128> mzanetti, no, today
[11:34] <mzanetti> ah. perfect
[11:34] <seb128> I'm pinging ogra to get seeded, then it's going to be on the next image build
[11:36] <mzanetti> seb128: I'll put you on the reviewers of this: https://code.launchpad.net/~mzanetti/unity8/launcher-defaults-from-dconf/+merge/183420
[11:36] <mzanetti> seb128: once the defaults have landed you can approve
[11:37] <mzanetti> Wellark: I think I'm done: https://code.launchpad.net/~mzanetti/unity8/launcher-defaults-from-dconf/+merge/183420
[11:37] <seb128> mzanetti, ok
[11:40] <seb128> mzanetti, so resetting the launcher config (we need to do that in system setting) would be basically resetting the gsettings key and calling that dbus command?
[11:40] <mzanetti> seb128: yep
[11:41] <mzanetti> seb128: it might slightly change once saviq is back, but I'll keep you updated
[11:41] <seb128> mzanetti, thanks
[11:51] <larsu> dednick: your branch doesn't build for me: dh_install: unity8 missing files (usr/share/unity8/unity/indicators/*), aborting
[11:51] <larsu> dednick: the build directory contains a working unity8 binary, but running that doesn't show the messaging menu at al
[11:51] <larsu> *all
[11:52] <dednick> larsu: um. give me a sec
[11:53] <larsu> dednick: oh, it does! It's the icon that is missing )
[11:53] <dednick> larsu:  :)
[11:55] <dednick> larsu: the dh_install should be fixed now. pull latest
[12:00] <larsu> dednick: thanks
[12:01] <mzanetti> om26er: hi
[12:02] <om26er> mzanetti, hello
[12:02] <mzanetti> om26er: just had a jenkins failure on the phone again but recalled that we already had seen this: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/generic-mediumtests-runner-maguro/402/console
[12:02] <om26er> mzanetti, yep, internet problem it seems
[12:02] <mzanetti> om26er: I think we should use network over usb
[12:03] <om26er> we could check with other guys what they are using to connect to the internet in the lab. e.g. in utah. I directly call nmcli they might be doing something different since I never heard any problem from them
[12:04] <om26er> mzanetti, I was hoping that change would get merged in phablet-tools but didn't seem to happen, I do know there was a branch for that but never merged
[12:04] <mzanetti> om26er: well... wifi is still wifi... for tests I'd recommend going through usb
[12:04] <mzanetti> om26er: unless explicitly testing wifi
[12:05] <mzanetti> om26er: this should explain how that works: losca.blogspot.com/2013/05/network-from-laptop-to-android-device.html
[12:05] <om26er> mzanetti, I'll try that locally here and see how it goes
[12:06] <mzanetti> om26er: actually you don't even need all that stuff... just set the PC as the default gateway on the phone and enable masquerading and ip_forward on the PC
[12:06] <om26er> mzanetti, translate that into command please :)
[12:07] <mzanetti> om26er: first of all you need to make sure TCP/IP through adb
[12:08] <mzanetti> om26er: adb forward tcp:2222 tcp:22
[12:08] <mzanetti> for example
[12:09] <mzanetti> ah no... that won't work
[12:09] <mzanetti> it only does port 22 obviously
[12:09] <mzanetti> we need all of them
[12:09] <greyback> Mirv: ping
[12:10] <mzanetti> om26er: I guess you need all that howto.
[12:11] <om26er> mzanetti, right, experimenting with that an a bit of the web
[12:11] <mzanetti> om26er: let me know if you have troubles. also, Mirv is the one that wrote this howto
[12:11] <om26er> there is this post as well http://qa.ubuntu.com/2013/07/24/internet-over-usb-on-ubuntu-touch-devices/
[12:12] <mzanetti> om26er: yeah... looks mostly the same, except Mirv uses more low-level commands
[12:12] <larsu> dednick: hm, I'm not even seeing HeroMessage.onItemRemoved being called...
[12:12] <larsu> dednick: well, if "print('..');" does what I hope it does ;)
[12:13] <dednick> larsu: erm. give me a sec
[12:13] <om26er> mzanetti, regarding Mirv script isn't that giving a static IP which will rather result in a IP conflict between devices on the same network
[12:14] <mzanetti> om26er: yeah, well. I guess needs to be adjusted a little for our szenario.
[12:15] <dednick> larsu: i dont suppose you ship that script to add messages on desktop with the indicator?
[12:16] <larsu> dednick: no, mine is in a constant state of change. But you can use bfiller's, it's attach to bug #1217676
[12:16] <Mirv> greyback: pong
[12:16] <larsu> dednick: you might need to change the desktop files in there to other apps if you don't have the phone apps installed
[12:17] <dednick> larsu: ok. thanks
[12:18] <greyback> Mirv: hey. I was looking into the qtubuntu fail to build on x86. I see that the contents of qtbase/src/platformsupport/eglconvenience are not being compiled into qtbase for x86, yet the header files are being shipped. I think eglConvenience is useful on desktop too.
[12:18] <dednick> larsu: mine is outputting. does your message not dissapear?
[12:18] <dednick> larsu: try using use console.log("...")
[12:21] <larsu> dednick: same problem. I also don't see the Activate() call on the bus...
[12:21] <larsu> dednick: the message disappears
[12:22] <dednick> larsu: if the message dissapears then the onItemRemoved should be called. The Activate might not be going out because the action doesnt exist.
[12:22] <Mirv> greyback: ok. the configuration hasn't changed from 5.0.x, but I wonder if that's a necessary evil from using -opengl desktop instead of -opengl es2 in configuration
[12:23] <dednick> larsu: did you ./build after you made the qml change?
[12:23] <dednick> the plugins need to be built as they get copied into the build folder during compile.
[12:24] <larsu> dednick: ya, I just noticed that (I'm in a build area and thought I wouldn't need to rebuild in there)
[12:25] <greyback> Mirv: quite possible. Things that need the qeglConvenience stuff are QPA plugins (like qtubuntu), which are platform specific. You cannot enable both GL types in the build?
[12:26] <Mirv> greyback: the -opengl switch at least is either or, no possibility of defining both
[12:27] <dednick> larsu: still not getting the log statements? you're not greping for the output are you?
[12:27] <mzanetti> katie: hi
[12:27] <larsu> dednick: I'm getting them now that I'm editing the right files :)
[12:27] <dednick> larsu: ah :)
[12:29] <mzanetti> katie: can you please give an answer here when you have a minute: https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/unity8/finish-tour/+merge/183037
[12:30] <greyback> Mirv: I'm very curious how/why this changed since 5.0. But it must be a bug that the header files for it are being shipped
[12:33] <Mirv> greyback: yeah. that might be a bug indeed, upstream though, as --fail-missing makes sure that anything upstream installs gets into the packages
[12:36] <katie> mzanetti, sure.. just looking now :)
[12:42] <larsu> dednick: found the issue (UnityMenuModel::activate() doesn't look at action-namespace). Making a fix now.
[12:43] <larsu> dednick: do you have an idea why it takes 10-20s to start unity8?
[12:43] <greyback> Mirv: ok well then all qtubuntu can do to work-around it is include it's own copy of those eglConvenience cpp files. Which isn't a nice solution really. Any other ideas?
[12:45] <mzanetti> dednick: what do I need to test your indicators.accesspoint-design branch on the phone? it's just empty here
[12:49] <Mirv> greyback: not much. there's some -eglfs switch that we don't define but is enabled by default, and we install egl/es headers also on x86. but the build logs say that eglfs support is still not enabled on x86 - I'm not sure why, but it might be simply because of the -opengl desktop which the automatically disables it.
[12:49] <Mirv> buildlog https://launchpad.net/~canonical-qt5-edgers/+archive/qt5-beta2/+build/4922638/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-amd64.qtbase-opensource-src_5.1.1%2Bdfsg-2ubuntu1%7Esaucy1%7Etest5_UPLOADING.txt.gz search for "EGLFS"
[12:50] <Mirv> (install egl/es headers = build-depend on ubuntu's egl/es packages also on x86, so they'd be available during build)
[12:52] <greyback> Mirv: if egl isn't being included, then yeah the eglfs (that's an example QPA for Qt to render to fullscreen egl surface) won't be built.
[12:53] <greyback> Mirv: though I'm still puzzled that the headers are installed, as QT_CONFIG does not contain "egl" and so those headers should be left out. (see qtbase/src/platformsupport/eglconvenience/eglconvenience.pri)
[12:56] <dednick> larsu: nope. dont know why. doesnt on my box
[12:57] <larsu> dednick: this works for me, can you try as well? lp:~larsu/qmenumodel/use-full-action-name
[12:57] <dednick> mzanetti: er. have you got some old indicator files on your machine/device?
[12:57] <larsu> dednick: gotta run for a bit, will be back in 15 min or so
[12:58] <dednick> mzanetti: ok, will give it a try
[12:58] <mzanetti> dednick: dunno... I flashed the phone on friday evening
[12:59] <dednick> mzanetti: is indicator-messages-service running?
[12:59] <om26er> mzanetti, the issue that you reported is actually something different than we were seeing in the past. the logs say, Error: NetworkManager is not running.
[12:59] <dednick> mzanetti: sorry, indicator-network-servce
[12:59] <om26er> previously that has not been an issue. probably we should increase the delay to 90seconds for the device to settle
[13:00] <dednick> mzanetti: arg. indicator-network-service
[13:00] <mzanetti> dednick: it works normally... if I run_on_device your branch I get file:///home/phablet/shell/builddir/plugins/Unity/Indicators/IndicatorPage.qml:111:5: Type MenuItemFactory unavailable
[13:00] <mzanetti> om26er: never use sleeps :D
[13:00] <dednick> mzanetti: reason given for that?
[13:00] <mzanetti> om26er: otherwise it'll fail when we'd require the timeout to be 91 seconds
[13:01] <dednick> mzanetti: UnityActionMenu not a type?
[13:01] <mzanetti> om26er: can't you do a while [ `pinc -c 1 ubuntu.com` -ne 0 ]; do sleep 1; done?
[13:01] <dednick> or rather UnityMenuAction . i seem to be half asleep today
[13:01] <mzanetti> s/pinc/ping/
[13:02] <mzanetti> dednick: http://paste.kde.org/pef088624
[13:03] <dednick> mzanetti: you need to upgrade your qmenumodel. and i need to update dependency version.
[13:03] <mzanetti> om26er: obviously adding some safety mechanism... like wait at max 2 minutes, otherwise fail the test suite
[13:04] <mzanetti> dednick: ok. flashing my phone now... that should update it, right?
[13:04] <dednick> mzanetti: yeah
[13:04] <dednick> um. possibly
[13:04] <om26er> mzanetti, the problem that we see with nmcli is that it won't work even if we tried after 2 minutes. if the internet worked the first try it will keep working if it did not we'd actually need to retry with nmcli
[13:05] <om26er> that's my finding. I have logged into devices with the problematic internet after the failed jobs and the internet is still not working there unless tried to be connected with nmcli again
[13:05] <dednick> mzanetti: you flash with pending?
[13:05] <mzanetti> dednick: yes
[13:05] <dednick> mzanetti: then yes.
[13:10] <dandrader> mzanetti, so now we can no longer show those running apps thumbnails when running unity8 on the desktop?
[13:10] <mzanetti> dandrader: huh?
[13:11] <dandrader> mzanetti, it used to be possible to launch the fake phone app and then have its fake thumbnail showing up in the recents/running section of the applications dash
[13:12] <mzanetti> dandrader: I'm not really sure why you ask me :)
[13:13] <mzanetti> dandrader: did I break it?
[13:13] <mzanetti> aah. because lp:unity-api doesn't have the screenshot property any more... now I get it
[13:13] <mzanetti> dandrader: greyback asked me to remove that. he said it belongs somewhere else
[13:14] <mzanetti> iirc
[13:14] <dandrader> I would not use the term "break". maybe it's not supposed to do it anymore. just asking you because I had to ping someone :)
[13:14] <larsu> dednick: and the corresponding mr: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/qmenumodel/use-full-action-name/+merge/183453
[13:15] <greyback> mzanetti: dandrader for unity-mir, we'll be using an image source to grab app screenshots. But for compatibility we'll add support for the ApplicationImage component that's currently being used.
[13:16] <dandrader> greyback, not talking about that. I'm talking about the ability to play around with launching and closing fake apps when running on the desktop
[13:16] <greyback> dandrader: possible something broke in the fake ApplicationImage plugin maybe?? Since it's on your desktop only
[13:16] <dednick> larsu: did reply work for you?
[13:17] <dednick> or is this only clear related at the moment?
[13:18] <mzanetti> dandrader: that still works
[13:18] <mzanetti> dandrader: ecept that for dialer-app, address-book-app and messages-app we don't have fake apps
[13:18] <mzanetti> except
[13:20] <dandrader> mzanetti, with "./run --fake"? I just get dummy dashes with that one
[13:21] <mzanetti> dandrader: hmm... seems to have broken there... I never use --fake
[13:22] <larsu> dednick: hm maybe I should have checked.  prefix
[13:26] <dednick> larsu: nevermind. apparently i'm smarted than i think :)
[13:27] <larsu> dednick: hm? It still doesn't work, right?
[13:27] <dednick> larsu: no. i just realised something that i thought wasnt, was.
[13:29] <dednick> larsu: ah. it's finding a "." though, which i guess is causing it to assume it's part of a group
[13:29] <mzanetti> dandrader: I think the reason is that there are no fake apps for "Tile.0" for example
[13:29] <larsu> dednick: I don't understand. What's finding a '.'?
[13:30] <mzanetti> dandrader: changing the fake backend to return for example "telephony-app.dekstop" for every tile should fix it I think
[13:30] <dednick> larsu: sorry, nevermind. i'm talking rubbish
[13:31] <mzanetti> dednick: standup
[13:31] <larsu> dednick: hehe, okay. The problem is that a UnityMenuAction is not directly associated with a GtkMenuTrackerItem (the only thing that knows which namespace the action is coming from)
[13:31] <larsu> dednick: I'm trying to find a halfway elegant solution...
[13:36] <larsu> dednick: model.fullActionNameForItem(index, name)?
[13:36] <larsu> man that's ugly...
[13:36]  * larsu is starting to think UnityMenuAction should have been a non-qml-creatable type
[13:40] <mzanetti> larsu: without knowing any further details, the would suggest that your sispicions are correct :)
[13:40] <mzanetti> ...the name would...
[13:41] <larsu> hehe
[13:44] <dandrader> mzanetti, "Dash/DashApps.qml:54: TypeError: Object Categories(0x1b3eb30) has no method 'overrideResults'" <- I think that's likely the culprit. it seems the fake scopes implementation didn't get updated to the latest design/api/changes
[13:45] <mzanetti> dandrader: yeah... we _REALLY_ should have all APIs in lp:unity-api
[13:45] <mzanetti> that would prevent such things from happening
[13:48] <dednick> larsu: i'm not going to dignify that with a response
[13:49] <dednick> It's a noun :) you can create it!
[13:50] <larsu> dednick: fair enough, but then we need a function that turns actions names into properly namespaced ones
[13:50] <dednick> larsu: add the namespace if it doesnt have it.
[13:51] <larsu> dednick: how? UnityMenuAction is not associated with an item...
[13:51] <dednick> larsu: hm
[13:52] <dednick> larsu: why doesnt it have the namespace on it in the first place? isn't that like "a requirement"
[13:52] <dednick> to be part of the group.
[13:53] <dednick> lunch!
[14:00] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: added you to 4 reviews that fix the stuff we found out on friday
[14:04] <pstolowski> tsdgeos: yay, you nailed it down?
[14:06] <tsdgeos> i can't find anything obviously wrong at least
[14:07] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: i'll send an email later explaining the problem as i understand it
[14:07] <tsdgeos> in case there's something left to fix
[14:07] <tsdgeos> whoever needs to fix it has a bit of head start
[14:07] <pstolowski> tsdgeos: awesome, thanks. I'll test your fixes in a minute
[14:07] <tsdgeos> mzanetti: https://code.launchpad.net/~mzanetti/unity8/launcher-defaults-from-dconf/+merge/183420 ?
[14:08] <mzanetti> tsdgeos: yep
[14:10] <mzanetti> tsdgeos: on the desktop it should pick up your existing launcher config (or use the default one with libreoffice etc)
[14:10] <mzanetti> tsdgeos: on the phone, additionally we would override the default launcher entries with this dconf override: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-settings/13.10.4/+build/4926146/+files/ubuntu-touch-settings_13.10.4_all.deb
[14:11] <tsdgeos> ij
[14:11] <tsdgeos> ok
[14:11] <tsdgeos> mzanetti:  if (appIds.count() << m_storedApps.count()) { ¿?
[14:11] <tsdgeos> my math logic exploded
[14:11] <mzanetti> lol
[14:12]  * mzanetti wonders that this actually compiles
[14:12] <tsdgeos> number shiftleft number
[14:12] <tsdgeos> gives number
[14:12] <tsdgeos> you can "if" a number
[14:13] <mzanetti> there should be a warning like when you do a if ( foo = bar)
[14:14] <mzanetti> tsdgeos: fixed
[14:16] <tsdgeos> mzanetti: i don't understand that if
[14:17] <mzanetti> tsdgeos: if the old stored list is bigger than the new one...
[14:17] <mzanetti> which means, items where removed
[14:17] <mzanetti> then do a cleanup of the itemCache
[14:17] <tsdgeos> isn't it possible that someone sets a larger list that is not a superset of the existing one?
[14:18] <mzanetti> tsdgeos: yes it is... but also not really critical I'd say
[14:18] <tsdgeos> ok, i mean you can just remove the if
[14:20] <tsdgeos> mzanetti: you probably want to comment/remove the qdebug
[14:21] <mzanetti> tsdgeos: narf... did I commit another one?
[14:22] <mzanetti> tsdgeos: removed
[14:59] <seb128> mzanetti, question for you
[14:59] <seb128> mzanetti, what qt type would "<[{'defaults' : <true>}]>" be?
[15:00] <mzanetti> QList<QVariantMap>
[15:00] <mzanetti> seb128: ^
[15:00] <mzanetti> aka QVariantList
[15:01] <mzanetti> I think
[15:01] <larsu> dednick_: no, namespaces would be worthless if the actions would have to carry them
[15:01] <seb128> mzanetti, I tried to do that: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6055372/
[15:01] <seb128> mzanetti, but I get
[15:01] <seb128> "(QMap(("defaults", QVariant(bool, true) ) )  )
[15:01] <seb128> QDBusMarshaller: type `QList<QVariantMap>' (1458) is not registered with D-BUS."
[15:01] <seb128> mzanetti, when I run my code
[15:02] <seb128> mzanetti, oh, I guess I need to register the type
[15:02] <mzanetti> seb128: hmm... I don't think you have to...
[15:02] <dednick_> larsu: right, but it's not the action, it's the xCanonicalMessageActions.
[15:02] <larsu> dednick_: well, they are in the same action group as the original action, so the same namespacing rules should apply
[15:03] <larsu> dednick_: s/original/standard
[15:04] <larsu> dednick_: I see three possible solutions: (1) add model.getAction(index, name)
[15:04] <larsu> (2) add model.getActionName(index, name)
[15:04] <mzanetti> seb128: qdbus_cast<QList<QVariantMap>>(variant.value<QDBusArgument>());
[15:04] <mzanetti> seb128: this is how we read it
[15:04] <mzanetti> seb128: you might want to try it the other way round?
[15:04] <larsu> (3) add model.activateForItem(index, actionName)
[15:05] <larsu> dednick_: I'd pick (1), but its your choice, you've got to use it ;)
[15:06] <dednick_> larsu: what would getAction return?
[15:07] <larsu> dednick_: a UnityMenuAction instance
[15:07] <pstolowski> tsdgeos: hmm, it still seems broken for me; it's just these 4 fixes and nothing more?
[15:07] <tsdgeos> yes
[15:07] <tsdgeos> how it breaks?
[15:09] <larsu> seb128: technically, the string you posted is a QVariant<QList<QVariantMap>>
[15:09] <larsu> seb128: not sure if this helps you, though
[15:10] <seb128> larsu, I'm lost in types there ;-)
[15:10] <seb128> larsu, <property name="launcher-items" type="aa{sv}" access="readwrite">
[15:11] <larsu> seb128: right, that should be a QList<QVariantMap>. Which library are you using that with? gsettings-qt?
[15:11]  * larsu is unsure if that has this conversion
[15:11] <pstolowski> tsdgeos: empty dash after I type a few letters. give me a minute, merging everything again, i'm not sure if I haven't messed it up before
[15:11] <seb128> larsu, I'm not using a library, that's for system settings, I need to do what is in the description of https://code.launchpad.net/~mzanetti/unity8/launcher-defaults-from-dconf/+merge/183420
[15:13] <mzanetti> larsu: QVariant's isn't a template class, is it?
[15:13] <dednick_> larsu: I wonder if specifying the namespace in the action would be better?
[15:13] <larsu> mzanetti: no, but I wasn't sure what other syntax to use
[15:13] <mzanetti> hehe :) valid point
[15:16] <larsu> dednick_: you're asking me to not ever use the namespace feature then... it's really handy, and I can't guarantee that no other indicator is ever going to use it
[15:17] <larsu> dednick_: I realize that the messaging case is a bit weird, but what's the point in having a namespace for the standard "action" attribute if we can't apply it to all other action names that are in custom attributes
[15:18] <larsu> seb128: I'm not familiar with qt's dbus library, but that should be a QVariant which contains a QList<QVariantMap>
[15:18] <mzanetti> tsdgeos: fixed your comments
[15:19] <seb128> larsu, I'm reading http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.1/qtdbus/qdbustypesystem.html
[15:19] <seb128> larsu, seems I need to register the type
[15:19] <larsu> seb128: it has a warning that you can't use QVariantMap directly...
[15:20] <larsu> seb128: I wonder what you're supposed to use instead thouhg
[15:20] <dednick_> larsu: i guess i dont get why the actions in custom attributes automatically belong to the same namespace as those of a menu items action. what if we had an action that wasnt attached to a menu item?
[15:22] <dednick_> but i dont think i understand the whole namespace thing.
[15:23] <larsu> dednick_: action names don't have namespaces at all, they are simply strings. Namespaces are a concept that only exists with menu models. If you have a section or submenu with "action-namespace" propery, all of its child menuitems must have that namespace prepended before action names
[15:26] <pstolowski> tsdgeos: hmm, still no luck, essentially I see no improvement
[15:26] <dednick_> and the indicators actions have this property set to "indicators"
[15:26] <dednick_> ?
[15:26] <seb128> larsu, mzanetti: it works when using "    qDBusRegisterMetaType<QList<QVariantMap> >();"
[15:26] <dednick_> larsu: i mean the menu has
[15:26] <seb128> which is what unity8 is doing as well
[15:26] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: that is weird,unfortunately i'm 30 min from my eod
[15:26] <tsdgeos> you'll need to dig it yourself
[15:26] <tsdgeos> i can tell you i couldn't see anything wrong here
[15:27] <mzanetti> seb128: oh... ok
[15:27] <tsdgeos> and https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/lvwph_update_section_header/+merge/183457 has a test to prove it's needed
[15:27] <larsu> dednick_: only indicator-messages uses that because it has really complex action names and it was easier to implement that way (hey, we have the feature, so why not). The other indicators usually specify their actions as "indicator.something" inside of their menus
[15:28]  * dednick_ shoots himself in the head.
[15:28] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: if you push everything to a branch, i can have a quick 20 min look
[15:28] <larsu> dednick_: why? Is it really that hard?
[15:28] <larsu> seb128: awesome :)
[15:31] <dednick_> larsu: "If you have a section or submenu with "action-namespace" propery, all of its child menuitems must have that namespace prepended before action names". This is when you are referencing the action in the client? or defining the action.
[15:32] <larsu> dednick_: when you are referencing the action in the client
[15:33] <larsu> dednick_: which is what unitymenumodel does automatically for you for the standard actions. It just doesn't do it in UnityMenuAction...
[15:34] <pstolowski> tsdgeos: lp:~stolowski/+junk/unity8-category-reorder-test it's just all our stuff merged together
[15:36] <dednick_> larsu: as far as i understand it, what you're saying is that to the unitymenumodel, the reply action belongs to a action group called "indicators". And you need this name "indicators" to find the group in the muxer.
[15:37] <dednick_> ie. namespace = group.
[15:37] <larsu> dednick_: in this case, yes. But namespaces can be used for any section and submenu, and I had indicator-messages making heavy use of that initially
[15:38] <larsu> dednick_: I just had to scale that back because qmenumodel wasn't able to handle this
[15:38] <mzanetti> dednick_: are those small checkboxes really intentional?
[15:38] <larsu> dednick_: look at how the action names are structured for the message indicator: <appname>.<messagetype>.<messageid>
[15:39] <larsu> dednick_: <appname> was a namespace for the app section (in the desktop menu) at one point
[15:39] <dednick_> mzanetti: well the design doesnt exactly call for checkboxes...
[15:39] <larsu> dednick_: this gets rid of a lot of string manipulation inside the client, and lets us write code in a more generic way
[15:40] <mzanetti> dednick_: they look weird being different than the rest imho
[15:40] <larsu> dednick_: and if it weren't for custom actions, you wouldn't have to care about this at all
[15:40]  * larsu damns custom actions!
[15:41] <dednick_> larsu: yeah. it's pretty shit
[15:42] <dednick_> mzanetti: they pretty much run into each other if they're not smaller than standard.
[15:43] <larsu> dednick_: there's a (4) by the way: add a "index" property to UnityMenuAction. But that's pretty ugly, because you could only set it once and reading it back later might give wrong results in case the menu has changed
[15:43] <dednick_> larsu: ok, well as long as we never have an action that it's associated with a menu item then getAction is ok. we just need to watch out for leaks
[15:44] <mzanetti> dednick_: ok. I'll leave that up to design. reviewed the rest
[15:45] <larsu> dednick_: fair enough.
[15:45] <larsu> dednick_: I'll try to cook up a patch before eod
[15:45] <larsu> dednick_: is you branch ready to land after this is fixed? bfiller wants that clearing bug fixed
[15:46] <dednick_> larsu: yeah
[15:46] <larsu> dednick_: awesome :)
[15:46] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: that's really broen
[15:50] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: ok, then maybe i did not fix it all
[15:50] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: sorry ./
[15:50] <tsdgeos> i am pretty sure what i gave you are improvements
[15:50] <tsdgeos> but no clue why it's still failing :-/
[15:50] <pstolowski> tsdgeos: did you test it your fixes against my branch and unity8 before, or I messed something?
[15:51] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: there's two possibilities
[15:51] <tsdgeos> a) i did not test enough (it may have happened)
[15:51] <tsdgeos> b) i did screw up when splitting my fixes from the branch that worked
[15:51] <tsdgeos> sad thing is i killed the local branch "that worked"
[15:51] <tsdgeos> so i can't go back now
[16:20] <pstolowski> tsdgeos: no worries
[16:21] <pstolowski> tsdgeos: so, can you summarize all that stuff in an email?
[16:22] <mhall119> hey guys, something weird is going on with my Unity 8: http://ubuntuone.com/4v3fUxUPkTDGzqOyGRC4Ha
[16:24] <mzanetti> hooray for regression tests catching regressions. meh for fixing them
[16:24] <mzanetti> mhall119: what's weird?
[16:24] <mzanetti> :P
[16:25] <mzanetti> mhall119: how did you run this? just flashed the phone and this is how it showed up?
[16:25] <mhall119> mzanetti: I was searching the dash after installing a click app
[16:25] <mhall119> when I cleared the search term, things were like this
[16:26] <mzanetti> hmm... can't see how that would affect the launcher
[16:27] <mzanetti> mhall119: how does one install a click app?
[16:27] <mhall119> mzanetti: I was doing it from the click scope
[16:28] <mzanetti> click scope... interesting
[16:28] <mzanetti> never heard of that :D
[16:31] <nic-doffay> pstolowski, ping
[16:31] <pstolowski> nic-doffay: pong
[16:31] <nic-doffay> pstolowski, that branch is ready for a functional review if you're up for it.
[16:32] <pstolowski> nic-doffay: I'm about to eod for now... will check it tomorrow morning
[16:34] <nic-doffay> pstolowski, I'll shout if it hasn't been merged yet.
[16:34] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, time for a review?
[16:34] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: hit me
[16:36] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, https://code.launchpad.net/~nicolas-doffay/unity8/filter-selector/+merge/183503
[16:41] <larsu> dednick_: uploaded a patch to the same MR. I kept UnityMenuModel instantiable, in case we ever need to access actions directly.
[16:41] <larsu> dednick_: here's a patch for unity8 that makes use of this: http://paste.debian.net/33804/
[16:41] <larsu> dednick_: this works for me, let me know if it works for you as well :=
[16:41] <larsu> :)
[16:43] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: do you have a link to the UI spec?
[16:43] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, there isn't really an up to date one.
[16:44] <nic-doffay> Most of my communication with design was done via mail.
[16:47] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: do you have a picture you could forward me?
[16:48] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, there should be an old picture somewhere, let me try dig it up.
[16:49] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, http://design.ubuntu.com/apps/building-blocks/option-selector
[16:57] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: if this is all you got, why did you put the bottomDividers there? they aren't there on this screenshot
[16:57] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, that was added by Rosie in a mail.
[16:57] <mzanetti> hmm... makes it hard to review then for me
[16:58] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: I can't believe that design told you to put that orange search lens icon up there in the upper right corner
[16:59] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, you're right, but I haven't received another asset.
[16:59] <nic-doffay> Figured landing this would inspire one to be made quicker.
[16:59] <nic-doffay> I've mentioned it.
[16:59] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: there is a filter icon in the theme
[16:59] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: I think its exactly the one shown on the mockup
[17:01] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, any idea what it's called?
[17:01] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: dpkg -L ubuntu-mobile-icons | grep filter
[17:02] <seb128> mzanetti, nic-doffay: wget https://launchpad.net/icon-library/trunk/lucid-release/+download/iconlibrary02052010.tar.gz; tar xf iconlibrary02052010.tar.gz; cd iconlibrary;   python icon-library.py
[17:02] <seb128> that's an handy way to browse icon themes as well
[17:03] <mzanetti> seb128: but it shows much more than we support on the phone
[17:04] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, is this accessible easily via the Icon toolkit class?
[17:04] <mzanetti> basically you just need to ignore everything with "Inherited from..."
[17:04] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: yes
[17:05] <seb128> mzanetti, there is a checkbox to don't list inherited icons, if you select the mobile theme and check that box you should have what is on the phone
[17:05] <mzanetti> seb128: right... seems handy indeed
[17:06] <mzanetti> seb128: if only those python uis would do a little better on high dpi screens :/
[17:06] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, icon takes image://theme/%1 what path would I need to pass?
[17:06] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: how did you use the search icon?
[17:07] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, I just passed in "search"
[17:08] <nic-doffay> Keeping in mind it's the Icon class.
[17:08] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: yeah. try that with "filter"
[17:09] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, I've tried that.
[17:09] <mzanetti> doen't work?
[17:10] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, nope.
[17:10] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: works here
[17:10] <mzanetti> just tried it
[17:10] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, hmm
[17:11] <mzanetti> nic-doffay: do you have ubuntu-mobile-icons installed?
[17:11] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, yeah
[17:13] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, eod I'll have to take a look at this tomorrow. I'll ping you when I've sorted it.
[17:14] <nic-doffay> mzanetti, have a good evening though!
[17:20] <mhall119> mzanetti: pushed rev 276 of my finish-tour branch with Tingting's recommended wording
[17:20] <mzanetti> mhall119: cheers. I'll approve it soon
[17:20] <mhall119> \o/
[17:20] <dednick_> larsu: hm. those UnityMenuActions arent being deleted. when not used anymore. :(
[17:20] <mhall119> second Unity8 fix!
[17:20] <dednick_> only when the model is destroyed
[17:20] <mzanetti> mhall119: actually... it feels a bit weird that the first sentence has a . while the second doesn't
[17:21] <mzanetti> mhall119: what's your opinion on that?
[17:21] <mhall119> mzanetti: none of the others end with a period
[17:21] <mzanetti> mhall119: yeah... so the question is. Should this one do so?
[17:21] <dednick_> larsu: and basically it never gets destroyed.
[17:21] <mzanetti> mhall119: or maybe without punctuation like the others, but in a new line?
[17:21] <mhall119> I decided not to, for consistency with the others
[17:21] <mhall119> can I put it in a new line?
[17:22] <mzanetti> mhall119: <br> should work.
[17:23] <mhall119> mzanetti: should we get katie and Tingting to weight in again?
[17:23] <mzanetti> mhall119: can you do a screenshot of both versions and paste it somewhere please? I'll ask katie then for a quick look to decide
[17:23] <mzanetti> mhall119: unless you are sure that one looks way better than the other. in that case I'll trust your judgement
[17:24] <mhall119> trusting my judgement on design?  You don't know me very well :)
[17:33] <mzanetti> mhall119: ok. then do the screenshots in any case :D
[17:58] <mhall119> ok
[17:59] <mhall119> mzanetti: is there a way to get the tour to run in a desktop window?
[18:12]  * greyback eod
[18:15] <mzanetti> mhall119: dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=org.freedesktop.Accounts /org/freedesktop/Accounts/User32011 org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties.Set string:com.canonical.unity.AccountsService string:demo-edges variant:boolean:true
[18:15] <mzanetti> mhall119: replace with your userid
[18:17] <mhall119> mzanetti: replace /org/freedesktop/Accounts/User32011 ?
[18:17] <mhall119> with User1000 or with mhall?
[18:18] <mzanetti> User1000
[18:18] <mhall119> Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.InvalidArgs: No such interface 'com.canonical.unity.AccountsService'
[18:18] <mhall119> must be missing a package
[18:18] <mzanetti> mhall119: yeah, you need to install unity8
[18:19] <mzanetti> mhall119: so that unity8-private etc are available
[18:19] <mhall119> ok
[18:23] <mhall119> mzanetti: still doesn't like it
[18:23] <mzanetti> mhall119: I think accountsservice needst to be restarted, now that the service files are installed
[18:25] <mhall119> mzanetti: and how do I do that?
[18:25] <mzanetti> mhall119: I rebooted :/
[18:30] <mzanetti> mhall119:
[18:30] <mzanetti> mhall119: easier way
[18:30] <mzanetti> edit Compoenets/EdgeDemo.qml
[18:31] <mhall119> ok, how?
[18:31] <mzanetti> mhall119: search for  AccountsService.getUserProperty and replace that with true
[18:31] <mzanetti> mhall119: how to edit a file?
[18:31] <mzanetti> or was that just bad timing? :)
[18:31] <mhall119> sorry, in what way should it be edited
[18:32] <mhall119> found d.showEdgeDemo = AccountsService.getUserProperty(user, "demo-edges")
[18:32] <mzanetti> exactly
[18:32] <mzanetti> set it to true
[18:32] <mhall119> ok
[18:35] <mhall119> that worked
[18:52] <mhall119> mzanetti: http://ubuntuone.com/5rVPw9uOqj8UjfGZiNZQpj is a tarball with 4 options
[18:53] <mhall119> mzanetti: personally, I like taking over the skipLabel text best
[18:59] <mhall119> because having "Skip Intro" at the last page of the intro was also confusing
[19:36]  * mhall119 wonders if mzanetti has EOD, or is just ignorning me
[19:45] <mzanetti> mhall119: its 9:45 pm here
[19:46] <mzanetti> mhall119: so yeah... sort of EOD :)
[19:46] <mhall119> no worries, catch you tomorrow
[19:46] <mzanetti> mhall119: I've noticed the link and will clarify this tomorrow morning with katie
[19:46] <mzanetti> mhall119: by the time you show up I will know how to proceed
[19:47] <mhall119> sounds good, thanks a bunch mzanetti
[19:47] <mzanetti> mhall119: are there any docs how to create click packages?
[19:49] <mhall119> mostly I just use qtcreator to do it, but I think they had some on readthedocs
[19:49] <mzanetti> mhall119: yeah, found this: https://click-package.readthedocs.org/en/latest/
[19:49] <mzanetti> mhall119: but it doesn't really show how to do it
[19:49] <mzanetti> mhall119: and Qtcreator can only package up qml stuff. but I need c++
[19:51] <mhall119> the C++ story for click packages and the app store isn't finalized yet
[19:51] <mhall119> dholbach and cjwatson can tell you more about the plan though
[19:58] <mhall119> mzanetti: long story short, click packages are arch-specific binaries and we have no cross-compiling support in the Ubuntu SDK
[19:58] <mzanetti> mhall119: yeah. not a problem for me. I can package them up manually. just need to figure how
[19:59] <mzanetti> mhall119: but I've found the scripts how qtcreator does it. so, shouldn't take me too long I guess. unless I hit troubles with the environment
[19:59] <mhall119> mzanetti: in that case you need to build your manifest.json, which maybe be detailed in the readthedocs, and run "click build"


[21:01] <devplayer0> hey :)  i'm trying out juju for deploying charmed kubernetes, seems like a great way to go, especially since i've got my own machines to deploy to. i'm having some issues unfortunately. when i try to `juju deploy charmed-kubernetes`, i get "cannot deploy bundle: containerd is not available on the following series: focal not supported". containerd
[21:01] <devplayer0> is listing as having support for focal?
[21:59] <devplayer0> It seems to be something to do with the fact I'm running the juju client on arch... it's version 2.8.5 but when I try the same on a focal VM I don't get the same issue


[09:35] <sakrecoer> i think there is something fishy with firewire on 16.04
[09:35] <sakrecoer> dvgrab detects my camera, i can rip video from it, but no toher software can use it as web cam (used to work with this cam)
[09:36] <sakrecoer> ffado detects my soundcard correctly, i have access to the settings no problem, but jack refuses to start when set to firewire
[09:37] <sakrecoer> this is what i get from qjackctl in the message window: http://paste.ubuntu.com/17320580/
[09:38] <sakrecoer> same happens with freebob...
[09:41] <sakrecoer> hmm... my firewire card appears in Pulse audio control... can't remember seeing this happening before...
[10:09] <sakrecoer> weirdness delux... seems to be a common problem, but every thread i find is about wrong chipset, and it is solved by using, wait it for it: the chipset i have :( :D
[10:41] <sakrecoer> interesting... https://sourceforge.net/p/ffado/mailman/message/35044076/
[10:52] <sakrecoer> nah... that didn't help...
[10:52] <sakrecoer> i tried this:https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/JACK_Audio_Connection_Kit#Firewire
[10:53] <sakrecoer> i'm way out of my league here, but this seems a bit strange to me: http://paste.ubuntu.com/17321488/
[10:54] <sakrecoer> should raw1394 realy be blacklisted?
[10:59] <sakrecoer> interesting, blacklisting all those snd- modules made the firewire interface disapear completly from jack...
[11:00] <sakrecoer> .... (O.o) but now it works...
[11:01] <sakrecoer> hm.. i have to try something...
[11:08] <sakrecoer> yup, blacklisting all the firewire related snd- modules solved it...
[11:16] <sakrecoer> well... noted for later, maybe you'd be interested in reading this, OvenWerks ^
[11:17] <sakrecoer> now i'm gonna arrange the super-hit we made zequence and i :) read y'all later!
[11:28] <sakrecoer> maybe no editing today... :( not a single x-run, but very much cracks n pops.... and they are certainly not from the audio recordings: appear randomly...
[11:43] <sakrecoer> killall:ed, changed buffer size, nothing. rebooted: victory over craks'n'pops! \o/


[00:04] <nathwill> i am
[00:04] <nathwill> so confused
[00:08] <bkerensa> nathwill: wait till the end
[00:09] <nathwill> bkerensa, yeah, i've seen it all now
[00:09] <nathwill> still in a wild state of disorientation
[00:16] <bkerensa> nathwill: you working today?
[00:17] <nathwill> bkerensa, yessir. hangin' out doing the usual
[00:17] <bkerensa> nathwill: you wanna set us up a bot?
[00:17] <nathwill> bkerensa, for the irc?
[00:18] <nathwill> bkerensa, i'd be glad to.
[00:18] <bkerensa> nathwill: let me set you up a shell account
[00:20] <bkerensa> nathwill: PM?
[00:20] <nathwill> sure.
[00:31] <bkerensa> New logo is on the site -> http://www.ubuntu-oregon.org/
[00:32] <bkerensa> time to get links to our social media stuff on the homepage
[00:46] <nathwill> whoo hoo
[00:51] <tgm4883> bkerensa, good job on Subway
[00:51] <tgm4883> and kees as well for sbuild
[00:51] <tgm4883> bkerensa, you should probably mark that somewhere that the Oregon team had two people in the juju charm contest
[01:10] <bkerensa> tgm4883: I will.. it will go in our monthly report to the borg collective
[01:15] <nathwill> headed out, catch y'all later!
[01:43] <bkerensa> wow I just noticed Ubuntu Oregon is in 830+ peoples circles on G+
[02:05] <Test_> bkerensa: echo
[02:06] <Test_> bkerensa
[02:10] <Test_> bkerensa: echo
[02:11] <Test_> bkerensa
[03:07] <Notifo> bkerensa
[03:08] <Notifo> bkerensa
[16:20] <nathwill> morning all!
[20:09] <bkerensa> ello
[20:31] <bkerensa> nathwill: Bring on the Kraken
[20:31] <nathwill> Krakenify
[20:46] <bkerensa> hi jPiroshky
[20:49] <jPiroshky> hey ben, are you getting excited about the release party?
[21:00] <bkerensa> jPiroshky: I guess :P it just means work for me.... maybe if nathwill does the little speech beforehand this year
[21:00] <bkerensa> :D
[21:14] <jPiroshky> I went to the dorkbotpdx meeting at the backspace this week; there was some neat stuff. I liked the face-tracking animatronic robot and the slider controlled video synthesizer a lot.


[14:00] <barry> #startmeeting
[14:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is barry.
[14:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[14:00] <barry> hello and welcome to this week's ameu reviewers meeting.  who's here today?
[14:00] <flacoste> me
[14:00] <sinzui> me
[14:00] <vednis> me
[14:01] <vednis> gah
[14:01] <mars> me
[14:01] <bac> me
[14:01] <salgado> me
[14:01] <mars> so, the team on sprint is all here
[14:02] <barry> [TOPIC] agenda
[14:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
[14:02] <barry> == Agenda ==
[14:02] <barry>  * Roll call
[14:02] <barry>  * barry to miss the next two weeks
[14:02] <barry>  * plurals, curtis
[14:02] <barry>  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
[14:02] <barry>  * Action items
[14:02] <barry>  * Mentoring update
[14:02] <barry> [TOPIC] * barry to miss the next two weeks
[14:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  * barry to miss the next two weeks
[14:02] <EdwinGrubbs> me
[14:03] <barry> so, i'll be at pycon the next two weeks and won't be able to meet.  does someone want to take over chair duties for the next two weeks or should we bag the meeting?
[14:03]  * barry can guess based on today's stellar attendance :)
[14:04] <barry> i guess i'll send a message to the ml and we can just meet up again in 3 weeks
[14:04] <barry> [TOPIC] * plurals, curtis
[14:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  * plurals, curtis
[14:04] <barry> sinzui: do you want to take this one?
[14:04] <bigjools> me
[14:05] <sinzui> I have struggled without how to write code in a clean and consisent fashion to handle cases where the page will say 1 member or 2 members.
[14:05] <gmb> barry: Bugs team is sprinting this week, so BjornT, intellectronica, allenap, adeuring and I won't be here...
[14:06] <barry> gmb: thanks
[14:06] <sinzui> I once used ngettext, but I was told to remove it
[14:06] <sinzui> should we have a tale formatter to handle this in the template?
[14:06] <bigjools> how would it handle irregular plurals?
[14:06] <sinzui> view/count/fmt:singular/member/members
[14:07] <mars> sinzui, probably
[14:07] <bac> what is the rationale for not using ngettext?
[14:07] <mars> sinzui, since every other web framework has said formatter, we may take that as a hint ;)
[14:07] <sinzui> bigjools: I do not know
[14:07] <bigjools> sinzui: you answered me already with your example, you just provide the alternative.  np.
[14:07] <barry> does zpt (or whatever sidnei is experimenting with) support this?
[14:08] <sinzui> TALES i18n does not support ngettext either :(
[14:08] <barry> flacoste: what do you think?
[14:08] <flacoste> well
[14:09] <flacoste> i think ngetttext is the way to go
[14:09] <flacoste> but
[14:09] <flacoste> curtis' suggestion is a good worst-solution
[14:09] <flacoste> why can't we use ngetttext?
[14:09]  * sinzui nods
[14:09] <flacoste> hmm, i wish gary was here
[14:09] <sinzui> I don't recall the reason I was told to remove it
[14:10] <sinzui> danilos: was kind enough to tell me to use it
[14:10] <gary_poster> me, sorry
[14:10] <sinzui> My concern is that we void this situation my writing mediocre text like members: 1
[14:10] <barry> gary_poster: hi.  we're asking about plural forms and ngettext in templates
[14:10] <flacoste> gary_poster: we are discussing how to do plurals
[14:10] <sinzui> s/void/avoid/
[14:11] <flacoste> gary_poster: zope.i18n doesn't have any support for it i htink
[14:11] <danilos> if are ever going to do proper i18n, we'd have to extend zope.i18n
[14:11] <gary_poster> barry, flacoste: ok, thanks.  no support for plurals?  that's surprising
[14:11] <danilos> if we are not interested in l10n as well, coming up with a simpler alternative might do the trick
[14:12] <barry> gary_poster: sinzui suggested a formater, e.g. view/count/fmt:singular/member/members
[14:12] <flacoste> barry: the problem with that is that it hurs i18n
[14:12] <barry> flacoste: agreed!
[14:12] <flacoste> barry: since that only supports english
[14:12] <gary_poster> I'd want to go to the author (Stephan Richter, IIRC) and verify before going too far; I'd also strongly believe that Zope would be very interested in this if we were working on it
[14:12] <barry> flacoste: i'd much rather use the zopey way if there is one
[14:13] <barry> gary_poster: could you ping stephan and see what he recommends?
[14:13] <gary_poster> I know of a zopey way for i18n collation...but don't know anything about plurals
[14:13] <gary_poster> barry: yes will do
[14:13] <danilos> everybody should note that ngettext-style depends on an argument (a number) being passed, so that's likely going to live in the view anyway
[14:13] <barry> gary_poster: awesome, thanks
[14:14] <flacoste> yes
[14:14] <danilos> if it's going to be in the template, it's going to be pretty awkward I assume
[14:14] <barry> [ACTION] gary_poster to check w/stephan richter about the best way to do plurals
[14:14] <MootBot> ACTION received:  gary_poster to check w/stephan richter about the best way to do plurals
[14:14] <flacoste> danilos: zope.i18n isn't about templates
[14:14] <flacoste> danilos: tales uses zope.i18n for tempalte tranlsation
[14:14] <danilos> flacoste: right, but people are mostly interested in how it can be applied in templates, if I am not mistaken
[14:15] <flacoste> danilos: i think view/templates
[14:15] <flacoste> danilos: you can't format a message like that in templates
[14:15] <flacoste> since grammar might have to change also
[14:15] <gary_poster> yes
[14:15] <danilos> flacoste: you certainly can, but TAL would not really work too well with it
[14:15] <flacoste> agreed
[14:16] <gary_poster> danilos: have you seen a solution in another template language that works well?
[14:16] <danilos> gary_poster: work well, plenty, look good, none :)
[14:16] <gary_poster> s/language/system or whatever/
[14:16]  * barry wants to ask if there are any template languages that actually do i18n well ;)
[14:16] <gary_poster> danilos: heh :-)
[14:16] <gary_poster> :-)
[14:17] <danilos> I've usually had to extend systems with my own formatters (did that ages ago for smarty and cheetahtemplates)
[14:17] <barry> okay cool.  gary_poster thanks for looking into that for us
[14:17] <gary_poster> barry: sure, np.
[14:17] <barry> [TOPIC]  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
[14:17] <MootBot> New Topic:   * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
[14:18] <barry> does anybody have anything not already on the agenda?
[14:18] <barry> phew
[14:18] <barry> [TOPIC] action items
[14:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  action items
[14:19] <barry>  * gary_poster to add `getStore()` as an alias for `_get_store()`
[14:19] <gary_poster> that was locally, which I did
[14:19] <gary_poster> (or at least that's how I interpreted it ;-) )
[14:19] <barry> gary_poster: you landed that in a branch already, right?
[14:19] <gary_poster> yeah
[14:19] <barry> gary_poster: awesome, thanks
[14:19] <gary_poster> cool, np
[14:19] <barry>  * gary_poster will check to see if there's a bug open for adding a hook to `bzr send`, and submit one if there isn't
[14:19] <gary_poster> nope :-(
[14:20] <barry> np
[14:20] <barry>  * flacoste to look into storm/sqlobject result set compatibility
[14:20] <barry>  * flacoste to work on API reviewer cheat sheet
[14:20] <flacoste> hmm
[14:20] <barry> flacoste: r.u.hoover?
[14:20] <flacoste> yeah
[14:20] <flacoste> but i think allenap solved the first one
[14:20] <flacoste> iirc
[14:21] <allenap> flacoste: It should be in, or nearly merged into storm trunk. It should be an easy backport to our storm branch.
[14:23] <allenap> flacoste: Yes, it is merged into storm trunk.
[14:24] <sinzui> are we here?
[14:24] <bac> yes we are
[14:24] <sinzui> barry is gone?
[14:25] <barry_> i'm back i guess
[14:25] <barry_>  flacoste: keep these items or drop 'em?
[14:25] <flacoste> barry: keep the hoover one
[14:25] <barry_> you got it
[14:25] <flacoste> allenap: should we drop the other one?
[14:26] <allenap> flacoste: I don't follow...
[14:26] <flacoste> allenap: storm result set compatibility
[14:26] <allenap> I think we should have a new task to backport that change into the LP storm branch.
[14:27] <allenap> I'll do that next week.
[14:27] <barry_> allenap, flacoste cool, let's keep this on the agenda then
[14:27] <flacoste> shouldn't we jsut try pdating storm?
[14:27] <flacoste> i think jtv was also interested in changes on trunk
[14:27] <allenap> I tried that once and there was lots of breakage, and I didn't have the fu to understand and fix.
[14:28] <allenap> But we should do it. The longer we leave it, the greater the breakage.
[14:29] <barry_> bigjools: i have your branch to review, thaks for working on those helper functions
[14:29] <bigjools> no worries
[14:29] <bigjools> it wasn't too hard
[14:29] <barry_> [TOPIC] mentoring updates
[14:29] <barry_> anything here?
[14:30] <barry_> well, i think we're done
[14:30] <barry_> #endmeeting
[14:30] <barry_> thanks everyone (except you mootbot)
[14:30] <gary_poster> :-) Thanks barry
[22:24] <jml> rock. rock. rock. rock. rock.
[22:28] <mwhudson> soil?
[22:30] <jml> Ha
[22:30] <jml> Are we having a meeting?
[22:31] <thumper> here
[22:31] <thumper> paper?
[22:32] <barry> #startmeeting
[22:32] <MootBot> barry, There is already a meeting in progress.
[22:32] <jml> tee hee
[22:32] <barry> thank you mootbot
[22:32] <barry> /msg mootbot shut up
[22:33] <barry> okay okay, so... welcome to this week's asiapac reviewers meeting.  who's here today?
[22:33] <jml> I am.
[22:33] <barry> jml: hi!
[22:33] <mwhudson> i am too
[22:33] <thumper> me
[22:33] <barry> [TOPIC] agenda
[22:33] <MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
[22:33] <thumper> although I have about 13 minutes
[22:34] <barry>  * Roll call
[22:34] <barry>  * barry to miss the next two weeks
[22:34] <barry>  * plurals, curtis
[22:34] <barry>  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
[22:34] <barry>  * Action items
[22:34] <barry>  * Mentoring update
[22:34] <barry> [TOPIC]  * barry to miss the next two weeks
[22:34] <MootBot> New Topic:   * barry to miss the next two weeks
[22:34] <mwhudson> the one it two weeks time is pycon, right?
[22:34] <barry> so i'll be gone for the next two meetings. it sounded like ameu didn't want to meet while i'm gone. what say you?
[22:34] <jml> probably not.
[22:34] <jml> the main benefit of this meeting is connecting with AMEU.
[22:35] <barry> mwhudson: actually next week i'll be at pycon too
[22:35] <mwhudson> right
[22:35] <mwhudson> oh right
[22:35] <mwhudson> i won't quite have left in 7 days time
[22:35] <mwhudson> i leave in about 7.25 days i guess :)
[22:35] <barry> :)
[22:35] <mwhudson> anyway, no meetings for two weeks, ok, next
[22:35] <barry> [TOPIC]  * plurals, curtis
[22:35] <MootBot> New Topic:   * plurals, curtis
[22:36] <barry> so in ameu sinzui brought up the problem of plural forms in zpts
[22:36] <barry> which really aren't supported well
[22:36] <mwhudson> ugh yes
[22:36] <barry> after the meeting we discussed alternatives with gary (who did some research)
[22:36] <barry> and sinzui proposed something like...
[22:37] <barry> view/count/fmt:singular/message/messages
[22:37] <barry> which we all kind of thought was okay
[22:37] <barry> done.  any thoughts?
[22:38] <jml> umm
[22:38] <thumper> ick
[22:38] <mwhudson> so fmt:singular adapts integers?
[22:38] <jml> barry: I'd like to see a complete example, I think.
[22:38]  * barry delurks sinzui
[22:38] <thumper> I've used a plural helper in the view code
[22:38] <jml> (because I have questions like mwhudson's)
[22:38] <thumper> I don't like the idea of a tal formatter
[22:38] <mwhudson> fmt:singular is a pretty crummy name
[22:38] <sinzui> It's the same nasty for of ngettext(n, singular, plural)
[22:39] <sinzui> it will not be pretty in templates
[22:39] <sinzui> It may help us to avoid writing mediorce phrases like
[22:39] <sinzui> proposed member: 1
[22:39]  * thumper abstains
[22:39] <jml> sinzui: so what is 'message' in that example?
[22:40] <sinzui> fmt:singular/member/members
[22:40] <sinzui> It does not help anyone that the 'member' text is move into a tag
[22:41]  * jml feels a bit dense
[22:41] <thumper> sinzui: what about fmt:singular/approved branch/approved branches/
[22:41] <mwhudson> tal needs a switch construct
[22:41] <thumper> do spaces kill it?
[22:41] <sinzui> thumper: I would *love* that, but path adapters do not alolow spaces
[22:41] <barry> s/approved//
[22:42] <barry> well, we all agree it's not great, but there are limited options
[22:42] <thumper> barry: I'm sure there are cases where we want two words
[22:42] <thumper> approved in the tal wouldn't be translated
[22:42] <jml> sinzui: so
You have <tal:flibble tal:replace="view/count/fmt:singular/flibble/flibbles"/>

[22:42] <jml> ?
[22:42] <sinzui> yes
[22:42]  * thumper really has to run soon
[22:43] <barry> thumper: a quick skip ahead to action items then...
[22:43]  * mwhudson finds where he wrote "job<tal:s condition="python: job_count != 1">s</tal:s>"
[22:43] <barry>  * thumper to open bug on `webservice` pagetests globs problem
[22:43] <barry> mwhudson: ug, i'm not sure that's better :/
[22:43] <jml> anyway
[22:43] <mwhudson> it's not
[22:43]  * thumper tries to remember what it was
[22:43] <thumper> havent' filed one
[22:44] <mwhudson> thumper: salgado is an admin
[22:44] <thumper> was it that they are all salgado?
[22:44] <mwhudson> in the sample data
[22:44] <thumper> right
[22:44] <thumper> not done
[22:44] <barry> thumper: keep on the agenda or not's all i care about <wink>
[22:44] <thumper> keep
[22:44] <barry> thumper: got it
[22:44] <barry> thx
[22:45] <barry> anyway, just to close the loop on the plurals thing: if you guys have better ideas, please email the list.  nobody especially happy about the tal formatter, but we don't have better ideas
[22:45] <jml> ok.
[22:45] <mwhudson> has an email been sent to the list yet?
[22:46] <barry> mwhudson: i don't think so.  i /think/ it was discussed in a review
[22:46] <mwhudson> ok
[22:46] <jml> it would be good if someone sent an email, I think.
[22:46]  * barry hopes sinzui will email about it
[22:46] <mwhudson> maybe we can trick sinzui into writing a mail
[22:46] <barry> :)
[22:46] <barry> mwhudson: i'll slip something into his coffee tomorrow morning
[22:46] <barry> anyway...
[22:46] <mwhudson> ok
[22:46] <barry> [TOPIC]  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
[22:46] <MootBot> New Topic:   * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
[22:47] <barry> do you guys have anything not on the agenda today?
[22:47] <jml> I have some things
[22:47] <jml> * assertFoo vs failUnlessFoo
[22:47] <jml> * messages in assertions & TestStyleGuide
[22:47] <jml> * super vs upcalling
[22:47]  * thumper leaves
[22:47] <barry> jml: floor is yours
[22:47] <jml> These all came up in reviews.
[22:47] <barry> thumper: bye
[22:47] <thumper> jml: I'll talk to you later about these
[22:47] <jml> thumper: ok.
[22:47] <jml> grepping shows assertFoo is currently preferred to failUnlessFoo.
[22:47] <jml> I think we should lean that way.
[22:48] <barry> jml: lean toward assertFoo?
[22:48] <jml> barry: yeah. no need to use the failUnless methods at all, I reckon.
[22:48] <barry> jml: very occasionally i find failUnless reads better, but generally i agree
[22:49] <jml> cool.
[22:49] <mwhudson> yes
[22:49] <jml> apparently the TestStyleGuide recommends using messages in assertions
[22:49] <mwhudson> sometimes i feel failFoo reads better for guard assertions
[22:49] <barry> [ACTION] barry will add the preference for assertFoo to the TSG
[22:49] <MootBot> ACTION received:  barry will add the preference for assertFoo to the TSG
[22:50] <barry> mwhudson: agreed.  it shouldn't be a hard and fast rule, but a strong preference
[22:50] <jml> to do this properly with the default TestCase, you need to do your own string substitution of values.
[22:50] <barry> all else being equal
[22:50] <jml> barry: +1
[22:50] <mwhudson> jml: yeah, think often messages are superfluous
[22:50] <mwhudson> barry: +1
[22:50] <jml> superfluous and paradoxically confusing
[22:50] <jml> I had a whole bunch of really useful arguments for this that I wielded in a review.
[22:50] <jml> oh.
[22:50] <barry> jml: i *really* like (informative) assert messages
[22:50] <jml> barry: but wait, there's more :)
[22:51] <jml> barry: I changed the default implementation of assertEqual in our base TestCase class (canonical.launchpad.testing.TestCase -- you're all using that, right?)
[22:51] <mwhudson> given that we have tracebacks and assertFoo methods that produce reasonable messages on their own....
[22:51] <jml> mwhudson: exactly
[22:51] <jml> mwhudson: a message is often a cheap substitute for a domain-specific assert method.
[22:51] <jml> anyway
[22:52] <jml> the default implementation now includes the message *and* the two compared values, pretty printed, in the exception
[22:52] <jml> just like bzrlib.
[22:52] <barry> jml: wait.  you're not talking about assert statements!
[22:52] <jml> barry: no, not assert statements, assertions in tests.
[22:53] <jml> barry: sorry for the confusion.
[22:53] <barry> jml: ah.  i think i'm starting to agree with you then :)
[22:53] <jml> anyway.
[22:53] <mwhudson> (we shouldn't write assert statements, probably, a different bikeshed though)
[22:54] <jml> basically, the TSG should be updated to say a) we use *our* base TestCase, b) you don't need to provide a third parameter to assertEqual
[22:54] <barry> jml: +1
[22:54] <mwhudson> jml: +1
[22:54] <jml> and the final thing is upcalling vs super.
[22:55] <barry> jml: though i think we very often /don't/ use our TestCase :(
[22:55] <jml> barry: TestCaseWithFactory is more commonly used, and it's a subclass.
[22:55] <barry> [ACTION] barry to update TSG to state we should use our TestCase base and not use 3rd args to assertFoo()
[22:55] <MootBot> ACTION received:  barry to update TSG to state we should use our TestCase base and not use 3rd args to assertFoo()
[22:55] <jml> barry: my secret squirrel plan is to add testtools to rf deps and then make that the base of our base :)
[22:55] <barry> jml: jfdi
[22:56] <jml> need to RT & all that.
[22:56] <jml> (which reminds me, can you please merge testtools into python trunk pls?)
[22:56]  * barry coughs: zc.buildout
[22:56] <jml> anyway, upcalls
[22:56] <jml> personally, I think they are clearer. also, mostly in tests & Twisted-using code, you are forced to use them.
[22:57] <barry> jml: i recall a long discussion with SteveA about this and that z3 basically requires you to super()
[22:57] <jml> barry: and Twisted requires you to upcall :)
[22:57] <barry> jml: there's no "up" in "super"
[22:58] <barry> oh wait
[22:58] <jml> barry: I haven't seen any subclassing APIs in z3
[22:58] <mwhudson> jml: look at the request code sometime :)
[22:58] <jml> as in z3 things you need to subclass to work.
[22:58] <jml> mwhudson: I use my third eye for that stuff :)
[22:59] <jml> almost everything in Launchpad isn't the request code though.
[22:59] <barry> jml: how often does twisted and zope intersect?
[22:59] <jml> anyway, I suggest that the review attitude to upcall vs super be, officially, "chill Winston".
[22:59] <jml> barry: mostly in tests.
[23:00] <jml> (where you have to upcall because most of the base classes are old-style)
[23:00] <mwhudson> jml: heh
[23:00] <barry> jml: yeah.  old-styles /have/ to upcall
[23:00] <jml> barry: there's a lot of old-style code out there
[23:00] <barry> jml: 'cept all our own classes are always new-style
[23:00] <jml> Twisted, for one, hasn't switched because it *changes the API of the class*
[23:01] <jml> barry: I have a Python riddle
[23:01] <jml> class A
[23:01] <jml> is oldstyle
[23:01]  * barry only does haikus
[23:01] <jml> __metaclass__ = type
[23:01] <jml> class B(A):
[23:01] <jml> class B is _____?
[23:02] <jml> newstyle/
[23:02] <jml> should it upcall or use super?
[23:02] <jml> class C(B):
[23:02] <jml> should it upcall or use super?
[23:02] <jml> (Python is the ideal teaching language)
[23:03] <mwhudson> jml: B is oldstyle
[23:03] <mwhudson> jml: none of our exceptions would work if this wasn't true :)
[23:03] <barry> it has to be because new style classes can't have only classic class bases
[23:03] <jml> oh of course :)
[23:04] <barry> so it has to upcall
[23:04] <jml> anyway, I renew my request to relax the review attitude toward upcalling. :)
[23:04] <barry> jml: so basically your suggestion is to chillax and let the dev do what they want?
[23:04] <jml> barry: yes.
[23:04] <jml> barry: as long as it works.
[23:04] <mwhudson> +1
[23:04] <barry> i'm okay with that
[23:05] <jml> barry: cool.
[23:05] <jml> that's all I have to say :)
[23:05] <jml> []
[23:05] <barry> jml: great, thanks!
[23:05] <jml> barry: np.
[23:05] <barry> i have nothing else for today.  how 'bout you?
[23:06] <jml> not I.
[23:06] <mwhudson> barry: i'm good
[23:06] <mwhudson> barry: thanks
[23:06] <barry> awesome, thanks guys.
[23:06] <barry> #endmeeting
[23:06] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:06.
[23:06] <barry> mwhudson: see you next week :)
[23:06] <mwhudson> barry: yeah!
[23:07] <barry> sinzui, bac, barry -> dinner
[23:07] <mwhudson> barry: i arrive fairly late the night before the conf starts
[23:07] <barry> mwhudson: thursday?
[23:07] <mwhudson> barry: land at 2000 or so
[23:07] <mwhudson> barry: yeah
[23:07] <mwhudson> barry: i shall investigate hotel bars until i find someone i recognise :)
[23:07] <barry> mwhudson: sounds like a plan!
[23:07] <barry> mwhudson: i'll keep an eye out for ya
[23:08] <barry> bye guys
[23:08] <mwhudson> barry: cool
[23:08] <mwhudson> bye


[06:38] <sakhi> Morning
[06:40] <Kilos> morning superfly  and others
[07:27] <Kilos> hi Vince-0 SilverCode mazal
[07:27] <Kilos> morning maiatoday
[07:27] <Kilos> wb
[07:28] <mazal> Morning all
[07:37] <Vince-0> heyo!
[07:37] <Vince-0> disconnects...
[08:04] <inetpro> good moring everyone
[08:05] <inetpro> oh and hi Kilos
[08:05] <Kilos> morning inetpro
[08:15] <Kilos> hi psyatw
[08:17] <psyatw> hi KIlos
[08:17] <psyatw> hi Vince-0
[08:42] <psyatw> http://www.ubuntu.com/phone
[08:42] <psyatw> I´m looking forward to seeing how that works
[09:29] <ThatGraemeGuy> hello peeps
[09:42] <Squirm> 'lo
[09:52] <mazal> Any smart guys around ?
[09:53] <mazal> I have installed Ubuntu to my external hdd ( 13.04 , want to have the same os with same docs and mail and all both at work and at home)
[09:54] <mazal> At home , it works , but at work I get to the login and when I log in I only see the desktop. No launcher , no top tray or system area
[09:55] <mazal> Instinct tell me it can be graphics drivers maybe ? At home , where it was installed , Nvidia's proprierty drivers was installed.
[09:55] <Kilos> ai!
[09:55] <mazal> So now I think it's those drivers not working at the work pc
[09:55] <Kilos> yip
[09:55] <mazal> Back at home I tried to deselect that driver in " additional drivers " section , but ubuntu refuse to deselect it
[09:55] <Kilos> i read somewhere that happened because of graphics driver
[09:56] <mazal> Any ideas ?
[09:56] <Kilos> are the graphics cards different
[09:56] <mazal> Is there a manual way to remove the nvidia proprietary driver ?
[09:56] <mazal> Yes they are Kilos
[09:56] <Kilos> both nvidia?
[09:57] <mazal> Nope , ati at work
[09:57] <Kilos> ai!
[09:57] <Kilos> ubuntu not very ati friendly
[09:57] <mazal> It might also be an ATI 13.04 thing.
[09:57] <Squirm> Kilos: ATI supplies drivers for Ubuntu
[09:58] <mazal> I remember when I installed 13.04 for first time at home I had to remove ati card and install nvidia card
[09:58] <Squirm> I use them, they're not that great though
[09:58] <mazal> ATI's drivers didn't work at all on my ati card at home
[09:59] <mazal> Now I think that if I remove the nvidia drivers that ubuntu can work in a default state without screen drivers and might work on both with it's own built-in drivers ? Like when you first install ?
[09:59] <Kilos> yeah nouveau driver
[10:00] <mazal> But I dunno how to get the nvidia one off
[10:00] <Kilos> Maaz, google 13.04 no launcher or top panel with ATI graphics card
[10:00] <Maaz> Kilos: "unity - Launcher and panel missing [ubuntu 13.04] - Ask Ubuntu" http://askubuntu.com/questions/288235/launcher-and-panel-missing-ubuntu-13-04 :: "Ubuntu 12.10 shows no launcher or menu - Ask Ubuntu" http://askubuntu.com/questions/208346/ubuntu-12-10-shows-no-launcher-or-menu :: "Unity doesn't load, no Launcher, no Dash appears - Ask Ubuntu"
[10:00] <Maaz> http://askubuntu.com/questions/17381/unity-doesnt-load-no-launcher-no-dash-appears :: "After upgrading to…
[10:00] <Kilos> nope
[10:01] <Kilos> apt-get remove
[10:01] <Kilos> what are you using nvidia-173-extras
[10:02] <mazal> Can't remember oom , and can't boot it here to see
[10:02] <mazal> It was one of the "tested" ones
[10:03] <Kilos> most likely 173 or 173-extra
[10:03] <Kilos> hi Squirm help the poor man
[10:04] <Kilos> hi ThatGraemeGuy
[10:04] <mazal> Oom Kilos the list of problems have been getting so long I had to install win this weekend in dual-boot just to get work done :-( Now this problem also
[10:05] <Kilos> when it boots to that blank screen ctrl+alt=f2 to get prompts
[10:05] <mazal> Suddenly this weekend video editing also started giving issues
[10:05] <Kilos> eish
[10:05] <mazal> Had to boot 12.04 to get that done. I am running 3 os's now :-(
[10:05] <Kilos> ai!
[10:06] <Kilos> you gotta try get to kde im sure it has more tools
[10:11] <mazal> Very last time I install these middle releases. from 14.04 gonna stay on LTS and hope it goes better
[10:12] <Kilos> are you in the prompt?
[10:12] <Kilos> at
[10:14] <mazal> I can't Kilos , I will have to shut down and boot that broken one , then I can't get on here
[10:14] <Kilos> ah
[10:14] <mazal> You have a way to remove the driver in cli ?
[10:15] <Kilos> because after ctrl+alt+f2 you can remove nvidia from the terminal
[10:15] <mazal> Uhm , ok lemme see if I can boot it on another pc
[10:16] <Kilos> also on that blank screen you can ctrl+alf+t for a terminal
[10:16] <Kilos> ctrl+alt+t
[10:19] <Kilos> then you can lspci and it will show the card in the machine
[10:19] <mazal> busy booting
[10:20] <mazal> Ok , I'm in terminal
[10:20] <mazal> How to remove nvidia drivers ?
[10:21] <Kilos> apt-get remove nvidia-173 i hope
[10:21] <Kilos> if you used that one
[10:21] <mazal> Ish , you hope :-P
[10:22] <Kilos> ya man you must know which one you used
[10:22] <Kilos> hehe
[10:22] <mazal> Wait I was able to get to " additional drivers "
[10:23] <mazal> It's actually using ATI open source tested. It automatically changed to that it seems
[10:23] <mazal> So it's the same &^%$*&$%^$ ati thing I had at home grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
[10:23] <Kilos> ok activate
[10:23] <mazal> It's won't work on this pc :-(
[10:23] <Kilos> oh my
[10:23] <Kilos> ok you know the card?
[10:24] <mazal> Check how stupid this is , that drivers is marked , but it says " no proprietry driver in use "
[10:24] <Kilos> maybe one can get the drivers from ati
[10:24] <Kilos> its maybe not activated
[10:25] <mazal> And I know for a fact the other two listed won't work as those two broke my system so bad the last time I had to re-install
[10:25] <Kilos> but you can do aptitude reinstall driver if you have its particulars
[10:25] <Kilos> ai!
[10:26] <Kilos> you'll have to wait for a clever geek to help you
[10:27] <mazal> Thanx for trying oom , at least now I know 13.04 can't do what I need
[10:27] <Kilos> mazal, dont the nouveau drivers work
[10:28] <mazal> Nouveau doesn't even show here as it's not nvidia
[10:28] <Kilos> uninstall ati and nvidia and use nouveau
[10:28] <Kilos> no its in synaptic youll find it
[10:28] <Kilos> you can also remove the nvidia and ati drivers from there
[10:29] <Kilos> just cli synaptic
[10:31] <mazal> I hope 13.10 and 14.04 works with ati , then I'll try and work this way again. For now will just use two different os's
[10:31] <Kilos> get the company to get some nvidia cards
[10:32] <mazal> Oi , oom jy praat van 6 maande se werk
[10:32] <Kilos> or even try the onboard socket
[10:33] <Kilos> cant remember you might need to remove the graphics card though
[10:39] <mazal> Gotta shut down , gonna try the onboard thing
[10:42] <Kilos> wb maiatoday
[10:42] <maiatoday> ty Kilos
[10:54] <mazal> No-go oom Kilos , onboard intel also don't work
[10:54] <Kilos> eish
[10:54] <Kilos> skuus man
[10:55] <Kilos> what does additional drivers show there
[11:10] <mazal> If I wasn't so g@tvol of re-installing os's I would have gone back to 12.04 with this main os also
[11:11] <mazal> But I already did 4 the last week or so
[11:14] <Kilos> ai!
[12:33] <magespawn> afternoon all
[12:34] <Kilos> hi magespawn
[12:36] <Kilos> Maaz, seen banlam
[12:36] <Maaz> Kilos: banlam was last seen 6 months, 15 days, 18 hours, 12 minutes and 26 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2013-01-21 20:23:38 SAST], and has been offline on freenode since 2013-08-03 08:35:23 SAST
[12:36] <Kilos> Maaz, seen bakuman
[12:36] <Maaz> Kilos: bakuman was last seen 3 months, 13 days, 21 hours, 39 minutes and 28 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2013-04-23 16:56:48 SAST], and has been offline on freenode since 2013-08-03 08:36:23 SAST
[12:36] <Kilos> sjoe
[12:48] <mazal> Bye everyone , have a good evening
[13:20] <SilverCode> yay, finally managed to fix my tmux issues
[13:21] <Kilos> at least someone is winning today
[13:28] <inetpro> SilverCode: what tmux issues?
[13:40] <SilverCode> inetpro: the first was "dirty" screens. As the window scrolled up, lines wouldn't clear properly
[13:40] <SilverCode> inetpro: turned out to be using the wrong term
[13:41] <SilverCode> inetpro: the second was Shift+Fn keys not being passed through correctly
[13:41] <SilverCode> now if only I could solve my KMail problems
[13:41] <inetpro> SilverCode: you using tmux directly or via byobu?
[13:42] <SilverCode> inetpro: byobu?
[13:43] <inetpro> see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byobu_%28software%29
[13:45] <SilverCode> ah, in that case, using tmux directly
[13:46] <SilverCode> although byobu looks interesting
[13:47] <inetpro> it is very useful indeed
[13:49]  * inetpro still prefers GNU screen for the backend
[13:49] <inetpro> merely because that is what I'm used to
[14:10] <Kilos> yo Squirm Trixar_za
[14:10] <Trixar_za> Hey Kilos
[14:10] <Trixar_za> I just redid the znc for them
[14:10] <Kilos> whats a znc?
[14:11] <Trixar_za> a bouncer client - it idles online and keeps messages or logs while you're free to disconnect
[14:12] <Kilos> for who did you do this?
[14:12] <Kilos> slitaz?
[14:18] <Trixar_za> Squirm and me mostly
[14:18] <Kilos> ah
[14:18] <Kilos> you mean on here Trixar_za ?
[14:20] <Trixar_za> Yeah and a few other networks. Squirm uses it with 3 networks
[14:20] <Kilos> cool
[14:21] <Kilos> easier for me to just ask what i missed
[14:21] <Kilos> hehe
[14:23] <Kilos> SilverCode, kmail really sucks. i couldnt get it even to start up and the fly also said he used thunderbird because it was so bad
[14:27] <Kilos> but evolution works well on unity and kde
[14:27] <Kilos> in 12.04 that is
[14:29] <Kilos> inetpro, do you use kmail?
[14:30]  * inetpro been a happy user of Thunderbird for like ever
[14:31] <Kilos> yuk
[14:47] <Xethron> Greetings
[14:47] <Squirm> better
[15:37] <Kilos> yo neelsie
[15:38]  * Kilos greets Cantide too
[15:38] <nlsthzn> o/ uncle Kilos
[15:54] <Cantide> hello Kilos et al :)
[15:54] <nlsthzn> \o
[15:55] <Cantide> o/
[16:04] <Kilos> Cantide, when you going?
[16:20] <Squirm> busy putting together a collection of my better flying
[16:20] <Squirm> going to use it for advertising
[16:20] <Squirm> my little Dual Core probably isn't ideal for video editing, but oh well
[17:37] <Cantide> Kilos, i don't know just yet :p
[17:37] <Cantide> still working on that '-'
[17:37] <Cantide> but you can be sure i will let you know when i get my ticket :)
[17:37] <Kilos> hehe
[17:50] <magespawn> evening all
[17:51] <Kilos> yo magespawn
[17:52] <magespawn> i saw something online connected with tor, some new project, but i cannot remember where or what it was called, trying the group mind as a last resort
[17:54] <magespawn> vague i know but any suggestions/beatings will be appreciated
[17:55] <Kilos> what is tor magespawn ?
[17:56] <magespawn> an annoymous browser
[17:57] <Kilos> hehe
[17:57] <Cantide> TOR is horribly slow
[17:57] <Cantide> but it works well for what it does
[17:57] <Cantide> i remember gmail thinking i had logged in from Czechoslovakia :)
[17:57] <Cantide> brb
[18:00] <magespawn> i do not notice too much of a difference
[18:01] <Kilos> how big is the download magespawn ?
[18:04] <Kilos> nm ill use data on that android goodie rather
[18:05] <magespawn> not too big, i think, but i forget
[18:05] <Kilos> the fly fights me when i try install tarballs
[18:07] <Kilos> i got that android adv just about going
[18:07] <Kilos> avd?
[18:09] <magespawn> it comes in a zip file that once unzipped you run it from there
[18:10] <Kilos> oh ok will look at it ty
[18:13] <Kilos> 35 meg
[18:17] <magespawn> everthing is self contained
[18:21] <Kilos> well it works, but takes a while to open with all the setting up
[18:22] <inetpro> good evening
[18:22] <Kilos> but i actually dont need to be annonimous because mostly browse for help stuff
[18:22] <inetpro> Kilos: you should really not be installing tarballs
[18:23] <Kilos> hi inetpro
[18:23] <Kilos> it opens without installing inetpro
[18:23] <Kilos> but the android thing did
[18:23] <inetpro> what is it?
[18:23] <Kilos> so whip me
[18:23] <Kilos> what is what?
[18:24] <inetpro> that you're trying to run?
[18:24] <magespawn> inetpro tor
[18:24] <inetpro> ai!
[18:24] <inetpro> why?
[18:24] <Kilos> android avd i think its called
[18:24] <Kilos> wanna try gets whatsapp working here
[18:24] <inetpro> hmm...
[18:25] <Kilos> oh you meant tor
[18:25] <inetpro> Kilos: forget it
[18:25] <magespawn> i just mentioned it conection with something else i was looking for
[18:25] <Kilos> whew after all that data
[18:25] <Kilos> forget what tor or android
[18:25] <magespawn> why forget it?
[18:26] <Kilos> see magespawn i have to be careful
[18:26] <Kilos> when the pro dont bomb me the fly does
[18:27] <inetpro> why do you need whatsapp anyway?
[18:28] <Kilos> well ian uses it because it dont eat cell battery like mxit
[18:28] <inetpro> when you already have skype, facebook, gtalk and bbm
[18:28] <Kilos> no skype man
[18:28] <Kilos> and no bbm
[18:28] <inetpro> ai!
[18:28] <Kilos> and facebook sucks
[18:29] <Kilos> whatsapp on pidgin would be cool
[18:30] <inetpro> whatsapp and gtalk is exactly the same thing, only difference being that whatsapp is restricted to mobile to mobile, and that really sucks
[18:30] <Kilos> you can run it in an android emulator
[18:31] <Kilos> but majot thinking needed
[18:31] <Kilos> major
[18:31] <magespawn> i see Kilos, but they are just looking out for you( i think).
[18:32] <Kilos> yeah magespawn i darent say eish or ai! then im asked what i broke now
[18:32] <Kilos> hee hee
[18:32] <inetpro> :-)
[18:32] <magespawn> inetpro what is wrong with tor?
[18:33] <inetpro> magespawn: why would you want to use it?
[18:34] <magespawn> no particular reason was just reading several blog posts about the nsa etc so privacy came up
[18:34] <inetpro> privacy? hmm... what privacy?
[18:35] <magespawn> surfing privacy
[18:36] <inetpro> there's no such thing these days and tor is IMHO not really worth it
[18:36] <magespawn> oh wait get it, as in we we have none
[18:36] <inetpro> unless you have something to hide
[18:36] <magespawn> everybody has something to hide
[18:36] <Kilos> inetpro, he wants to hide his financial position
[18:37] <inetpro> uh
[18:37] <Kilos> they got an increase
[18:37] <Kilos> hehe
[18:37] <inetpro> magespawn: you use gmail?
[18:37] <tonberry352_> google knows...
[18:37] <Kilos> poor wife slaves and mage spends
[18:37] <magespawn> what financial postion? in the toilet?
[18:37] <magespawn> hah if only that was true
[18:37] <magespawn> all the time inetpro
[18:38] <inetpro> ahh, you see
[18:38] <inetpro> magespawn: you are the weakest link
[18:38] <inetpro> good bye
[18:38] <Kilos> haha
[18:38] <Kilos> google knows all about you
[18:39] <magespawn> i am easy with that, what i do not want people to know i do not tell them
[18:40] <inetpro> then why use tor?
[18:40] <Kilos> wont it use more data bouncing around first
[18:41] <magespawn>  i don't, just read about it and tried it,thats all
[18:41] <inetpro> ahh
[18:42] <Kilos> inetpro, ou papie het maaz reggemaak
[18:42] <Kilos> jy moet dankie se
[18:42] <magespawn> was actually looking for some other piece of randomly connected info that i read in connection with tor, but cannot remember where or what, called something like tortallion or something
[18:43] <magespawn> vague i know, scroll
[18:43] <inetpro> cocooncrash: thanks for fixing Maaz
[18:43] <inetpro> Kilos: mooi, dankie
[18:44] <inetpro> ek sien hy het hom reggemaak so net voor 2:00 vanoggend
[18:44] <Kilos> ai!
[18:47] <Kilos> so we got coffee in 4 mins again
[18:47] <Kilos> yay
[18:48] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[18:48]  * Maaz starts grinding coffee
[18:48] <inetpro> Maaz: coffee please
[18:48] <Maaz> inetpro: Sure
[18:48] <Kilos> Maaz, hurry
[18:48] <Maaz> Making decent coffee is an art Kilos and should never be rushed
[18:48] <magespawn> Maaz coffee please
[18:48] <Maaz> magespawn: Done
[18:48] <Kilos> its near bed time for ballies
[18:48] <magespawn> Maaz large
[18:48] <Maaz> In a beer mug just for you magespawn
[18:49] <Kilos> shame the poor bot is so corrupted
[18:49] <magespawn> now if i could just get the wife to do it like that too
[18:49] <magespawn> maybe she thinks the same about me
[18:49] <Kilos> haha i use beer mugs
[18:50] <inetpro> magespawn: shame
[18:50] <Kilos> Maaz, larger
[18:50] <Maaz> inna bucket for you Kilos
[18:50] <magespawn> make coffee on demand
[18:50] <inetpro> now go make her a cup
[18:50] <Kilos> or tell her maaz made her some
[18:50] <magespawn> already on it, kettle is on
[18:52] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos, inetpro and magespawn!
[18:52] <inetpro> Maaz: danke
[18:52] <Maaz> Bitteschön
[18:52] <Kilos> Maaz, gracias
[18:52] <Maaz> Kilos: ¡de nada!
[18:53] <magespawn> Maaz botsnack
[18:53] <Maaz> Thank you thank you, munch munch chomp chomp
[18:55] <Kilos> night guys, have a nice night and sleep warm
[18:57] <magespawn> night Kiloe
[18:57] <magespawn> Kilos
[19:49] <magespawn> good night all
[19:49] <Vince-0> cya