[00:03] <broder> huh, i apparently missed the exciting discussion
[00:04] <broder> Laney, maco: if you want people to make core-dev look less intimidating, you two should apply. right now i feel a little awkward applying for core-dev when my app is going to be reviewed by two people who were motu before me and who i know do more than i have recently
[00:05] <micahg> broder: I don't think most people are thinking about that
[00:06]  * ajmitch agrees that they should apply though :)
[00:27] <slangasek> bryceh: installation should always recurse down the recommends as well as the depends; so I don't know why it didn't get pulled in on install.  Is it *available* at install time?  (I.e., is it on the CD where it should be?)
[00:27] <slangasek> cjwatson: bugpattern - all seems reasonable to me
[00:29] <bryceh> slangasek, cjwatson sorted it.  I thought pitti had seeded it but it hadn't.
[00:29] <slangasek> bryceh: got it
[00:29] <bryceh> er, wasn't
[00:31] <lamont> if I go lucid->maverick->natty, do i need to bother rebooting into maverick?
[00:33]  * penguin42 would
[00:34]  * charlie-tca would, just to run all the updates
[00:34] <slangasek> lamont: let us know! :)
[00:34] <lamont> slangasek: heh
[00:35] <slangasek> lamont: btw, has kees pestered you yet about the bind9 package not shipping the dnssec root cert? :)
[00:35] <lamont> yeah
[00:35] <slangasek> that sounds inconclusive. :-)
[00:36] <lamont> he even convinced me that having installs of bind9 a year down the road fail horribly to run out-of-the-box, until manually corrected, makes sense
[00:36] <slangasek> ah :-)
[00:36] <lamont>  /bin/sh:        $python tests/test_all.py -q; \: not found
[00:36] <lamont> neat.
[02:03] <maco> broder: i kinda doubt ive done more than you recently :P also my next aspiration is kubuntu-dev :)
[02:04] <maco> broder: all ive done lately is sorta-emergency ubiquity poking
[02:09] <micahg> maco: there's no rush :), kubuntu-dev is very cool
[02:12] <broder> maco: i may be giving you guys crap as much/more than i'm being serious :-P
[02:13] <maco> and now that alpha 2 is out and kubuntu still doesnt have a working ubiquity, the emergenciness of my maybe figuring out how to fix it goes up *sigh* i think slangasek was a lot closer to figuring out what its doing than i am
[03:01] <slangasek> maco: oh ugh, is that bug still there?  I figured it'd gotten fixed somewhere along the line, since I hadn't heard any more about it :/
[03:02] <slangasek> maco: I understand what it's doing *wrong*, I just have no proposed solution for how to make it DTRT again
[03:02] <maco> slangasek: i havent seen an email from lp saying i can stop worrying about it...
[03:02] <maco> (i did see 9 emails from lp saying harald had decided i get 9 more bugs...)
[03:05] <maco> slangasek: ooh though given i see some bug reports about it now crashing on the partitioner, maybe it is getting past that part. will need to attempt in a VM
[03:08] <slangasek> we're talking about the keyboard map bug, right? which should have been language-specific?
[03:27] <ScottK> slangasek: Could you promote grantlee and it's binaries back to Main.  kde4libs is now depwait for it.
[03:36] <slangasek> ScottK: done
[03:38] <micahg> ScottK: so, anything left to do with bug 601662
[03:38] <ScottK> slangasek: Thanks.
[03:38] <ScottK> micahg: Yes.  It needs some work, but let's not block everything for a MIR that's been undealt with through a whole dev cycle.
[03:39] <micahg> k
[03:39] <slangasek> the package was already in main last cycle, so I think it's reasonable to repromote it on that basis anyway
[04:50] <pitti> Good morning
[04:51] <pitti> bryceh: no, I didn't check main promotion for xdiagnose, I just wanted the thing to work and use GTK 3 :)
[04:51] <pitti>  bryceh: it doesn't need seeding, it already has a reverse dependency
[04:51] <pitti> i. e. it wants to go into main already, just needs an MIR and actually promoting it
[05:01] <dupondje> Only Gnome Classic seems to work atm :(
[05:01] <dupondje> :p
[05:02] <pitti> not unity 2d? I heard talks that even 3d works on some platforms now
[05:02] <dupondje> nope, Xorg going 100% cpu and doing nothing :p
[05:03] <dupondje> gnome3 starts, but no menu's
[05:03] <dupondje> unity 3d also 100% cpu on Xorg
[05:03] <dupondje> :)
[05:04] <dupondje> something in last upgrades broke Gnome3
[05:04] <pitti> oh, somehow I read that as "on arm"
[05:04] <pitti> dupondje: you might want to talk with RAOF then
[05:05] <RAOF> dupondje: Define ‘last upgrade’.  Also, nvidia binary driver?
[05:05] <dupondje> nope
[05:06] <dupondje> broken Zeitgeist couldn't cause that ?
[05:06] <dupondje> else I upgraded compiz yesterday
[05:07] <RAOF> Oh, yeah.  Jason was reporting that ubuntuone was eating all his CPU.
[05:07] <RAOF> Possibly a similar thing?
[05:07] <dupondje> Yea zeitgeist causes that
[05:07] <dupondje> but that could also cause Gnome3 doesn't start completely ?
[05:10] <dupondje> thats https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zeitgeist/+bug/807203 btw
[05:16] <dupondje> Any idea's on how I can debug the real cause ? Could be usefull :)
[06:42] <didrocks> good morning
[06:50] <evfool> morning didrocks
[06:50] <didrocks> hey evfool
[07:56] <dholbach> good morning
[08:15] <mvo> cjwatson: the changelog stuff should be fixed now and the backlog it has caught up on now over night
[08:29] <jml> good morning
[08:30] <RAOF> Ra raw!  What's broken? :)
[08:34] <jml> RAOF: M-d in my virtualbox install of Ubuntu
[08:35] <RAOF> Oh.  Again, or still? :)
[08:35] <jml> RAOF: More "still" than "again".
[08:37] <jml> RAOF: am trying out the proprietary alternatives to see if things are better there
[08:37] <RAOF> Ah.
[08:37] <RAOF> It's not unity annoyingly eating the super key?
[08:38] <jml> RAOF: no. At first I thought it was (and I think unity eating super complicates things), but after much xmodmap hackery and also, you know, seeing what happened without unity, I ruled it out.
[08:39] <RAOF> Heh.  It's my great fear that at some point someone will really want me to learn about X keyboard handling in detail.
[08:40] <jml> RAOF: I guess as a fallback I could get used to having meta & super switched around. But that's not the way that technology is supposed to work.
[08:40] <RAOF> Right
[08:45] <cjwatson> maco: I'm pretty sure I fixed the keyboard bug.  I tested my fix and I could no longer reproduce the bug.
[08:45] <cjwatson> mvo: great, thanks a lot
[10:37] <pitti> infinity, lamont: would it be possible to kill the glib build on allspice and gnome-keyring build on yellow? they both eternally hang in the test suite
[10:37] <pitti> (and block amd64 builds)
[10:38] <pitti> the i386 build of keyring on vernadsky has the same problem apparently
[10:59] <pitti> infinity, lamont: bah, today is a good day for a buildd to die :( pygobject on crested is hanging as well, can you please kill, too?
[11:00] <pitti> I understand the latter, and have a fix; for keyring/glib we are currently testing a fix
[11:04] <pitti> elmo: ^ can you kill builds? lamont will probably still sleep for a couple of hours
[11:23] <lamont> pitti: infinity can't
[11:23] <lamont> on it
[11:26] <lamont> pitti: if I'm hearing you correctly, that's glib on allspice, pygobject on crested (how about actinidiaceae??) and gnome-keyring on yellow?
[11:26] <pitti> lamont: actinidiaceae can be killed as well
[11:26] <pitti> lamont: thanks!
[11:27] <pitti> need to disappear for a few hours, bbl
[12:17] <dupondje> All right :) Gnome is working again :)
[12:18] <dupondje> what was broken now ?
[12:24] <dholbach> if somebody could approve my post to u-d-a I'd appreciate it :)
[12:25] <dholbach> supi
[12:30] <cjwatson> dholbach: done
[12:32] <dholbach> cjwatson, thanks muchly
[12:52] <nigelb> james_w: Do you want to talk about packageme for 5 minutes at UDS lightning talks?
[12:52] <james_w> UDS?
[12:53] <nigelb> er, UDW
[12:53] <james_w> not this time I don't think
[12:53] <nigelb> ok, np :)
[12:54] <mterry> apachelogger, looking at the MIR now
[12:59] <jbernard> serge_: no objections here
[13:12] <lool> doko: Not sure whether you saw this, but latest gcc-4.6 has a libgcc1 breaking older gcc-4.4 and 4.5, which seem to need a merge from Debian
[13:13] <doko> lool: yes, seen
[13:18] <abhinav-> dholbach: kudos for bringing the long descriptions to harvest but I think something is wrong with harvest at the moment. can't list bugs in any package
[13:18] <sabdfl> can IRC tell me last-seen, or do i need to ask a bot?>
[13:22] <lool> sabdfl: nickserv might tell you
[13:23] <lool> sabdfl: /m nickserv info sabdfl
[13:23] <sabdfl> thanks lool
[13:41] <serge_> jbernard: thanks, i'll push the pkg
[14:01] <Amoz> dholbach, aha! found ya
[14:15] <Amoz> dholbach, maybe you already know this but harvest isn't showing any opportunities
[14:26] <maco> cjwatson: thanks! that one was scaring me :)
[14:28] <dholbach> Amoz, it's known - I hope we get it fixed soon
[14:28] <dholbach> abhinav-, yes, it's broken - I hope we get it fixed soon
[14:55] <bdmurray> mvo: bug 801059 had a corrupt alternatives file added to it
[15:11] <Amoz> dholbach, cool
[15:31] <jibel> users are reporting non working keyboard and mouse on Oneiric, bug 807306 , bug 807291, bug 807538
[15:31] <jibel> it started today, could someone have a look at it
[15:32] <seb128> jibel: does downgrading the new xorg-server make it work?
[15:32] <seb128> jibel: do you have the issue and can test?
[15:33] <jibel> seb128, no I tried, but can't reproduce with usb keyboard and mouse
[15:33] <seb128> hum
[15:36] <seb128> jibel: would be useful to have a list of the packages they upgraded before getting the update as well?
[15:36] <seb128> update->issue
[15:39] <jibel> seb128, I requested more info and the history log.
[15:40] <seb128> jibel: kenvandine has the issue, he says it's happening on a real box and with startx without lightdm
[15:41] <seb128> cjwatson, did you do an autosync run around the time you did the manual sync round you did yesterday?
[15:42] <cjwatson> no
[15:42] <seb128> cjwatson, I'm trying to figure if -changes has a list of all uploads around that time or not
[15:42] <cjwatson> we're past Debian import freeze, nobody should be doing autosyncs
[15:42] <seb128> ok, so -changes probably has all what changed
[15:42] <cjwatson> it should do, yeah
[15:49] <tgardner> is it a known problem that oneiric x86en chroots cannot be installed on lucid/maverick/natty ?
[15:52] <dholbach> Amoz, abhinav-: fixed
[15:52] <abhinav-> dholbach: cool. thanks :-)
[16:04] <cjwatson> tgardner: the other way round is known.  I hadn't heard of that way round
[16:04] <tgardner> cjwatson, I just tested using an oneiric host. it doesn't work there either
[16:05] <cjwatson> oh, you can't build an oneiric chroot at the moment anyway, the /run transition is incomplete and breaking stuff
[16:05] <cjwatson> mentioned it in the release meeting just now
[16:05] <tgardner> cjwatson, oh, is that the root of my problem ?
[16:05] <cjwatson> could well be
[16:06] <tgardner> I got busy watching the shuttle launch and forgot to pay attention to the release meeting
[16:37] <doko> slangasek: for the eglibc build failure: either you try to build with gcc-4.6, or you wait until gcc-4.5 is uploaded
[16:37] <slangasek> doko: I can wait for gcc-4.5 to be uploaded, certainly
[16:38] <slangasek> doko: should eglibc not be switched to use gcc-multilib, instead of gcc-4.5-multilib?
[16:38]  * doko didn't want to hear this ;p
[16:38] <slangasek> heh
[16:39] <doko> no, a first eglibc build with a new major version should be checked first
[16:39] <slangasek> ok
[16:47] <Laney> can someone please look at sparkleshare in NEW/oneiric? It's been there some time
[16:47] <Laney> (and people are starting to ask me about it)
[17:16] <infinity> Laney: Done.
[17:20] <tkamppeter> pitti, hi
[18:28] <cr3> is there a nice way to check if a package is installed programmatically, to be used in a shell script or a makefile?
[18:28] <cr3> dpkg -l package_name | tail -n 1 | grep '^ii' doesn't seem absolutely reliable
[18:30] <brendand> cr3: is dpgk --get-selections not reliable?
[18:31] <cjwatson> I would go for something involving dpkg-query -W
[18:31] <cjwatson> brendand: it's the wrong question
[18:31] <cjwatson> --get-selections asks for the intended state, not the actual state
[18:34] <cr3> cjwatson: so, if the package is installed, I get two columns, otherwise I get either one column if the package is known or the string "No packages found..." which might be localized. what about dpkg --status?
[18:35] <cjwatson> you can customise the output with the --showformat option - you don't need to parse out columns.  read its man page
[18:35] <cjwatson> dpkg-query will be easier than using dpkg --status and parsing the output
[18:35] <cr3> cjwatson: awesome, I will have a closer look. thanks!
[18:35] <cjwatson> the string "No packages found ..." goes to stderr, not stdout
[18:35] <cjwatson> 2>/dev/null and only look at stdout
[18:36] <cr3> dpkg-query -W -f='${Status}' and what you said about stderr, I should be set
[18:38] <cjwatson> ${Status} is a bit fiddly because it has both desired state and actual state; I think I'd go for ${Version} being non-empty
[18:38] <cjwatson> hm, maybe not, that fails on packages that are removed but still have config files present
[18:39] <cjwatson> I guess ${Status} is the best you've got
[18:44] <cr3> success: ifeq "$(shell dpkg-query -W -f='$${Status}' $package 2>/dev/null)" "install ok installed"
[19:07] <bambee> any idea about this strange behaviour http://paste.ubuntu.com/640306/ ?
[19:09] <penguin42> echo $PATH
[19:18] <bambee> penguin42: already done, http://paste.ubuntu.com/640313/ <-- /usr/bin is there
[19:21] <bambee> apparently the symlink is dead
[19:22] <bambee> and not correct http://paste.ubuntu.com/640316/ (I am an amd64)
[19:40] <slangasek> Keybuk: hey there
[19:42] <slangasek> Keybuk: it looks like the base-files /run migration is incomplete compared to the Debian approach; /var/run isn't provided as a symlink.  Is this deliberate for any reason, or can I patch up base-files to do the same as in Debian?
[19:44] <ion> Any major breakage in oneiric? Thinking of upgrading my laptop from natty.
[19:45] <slangasek> I'm sure there is some, though I'm typing this from it and have no specific complaints :)
[19:45] <slangasek> well, that's not true, I have many specific complaints but none that rise to the level of "major breakage"
[19:46] <slangasek> or even "I've gotten around to filing a bug" ;)
[19:49] <bdmurray> slangasek: I just uploaded a base-files debdiff to fix another issue
[19:51] <bdmurray> slangasek: and when I say uploaded I mean added to bug 744253
[20:04] <Keybuk> slangasek: umm, what base-files /run ?
[20:04] <slangasek> Keybuk: the one uploaded to Ubuntu yesterday with your name in the changelog? :)
[20:06] <bdmurray> @pilot in
[20:06] <slangasek> bdmurray: do you think that change is required if we get the website fixed (which it ought to be, given that this URL is in existing releases)?
[20:07] <bdmurray> slangasek: yes, I think it is still a nice addition
[20:07] <slangasek> fair enough
[20:07] <bdmurray> slangasek: however I don't recall what used to be at the original url
[20:08] <Keybuk> slangasek: I didn't upload anything
[20:08] <Keybuk> in fact, I'm pretty damned sure I still can't upload
[20:08] <micahg> slangasek: barry uploaded that
[20:08] <slangasek> oh
[20:08] <Keybuk> due to the whole Launchpad hates my GPG key issue
[20:09] <slangasek> why did barry put your name on it? :)
[20:09] <slangasek> I saw the bzr log listed him, but thought that was some manual archive/UDD reconciliation
[20:09] <bdmurray> didn't he say something about it in his pilot report?
[20:09]  * slangasek looks
[20:10] <stgraber> http://tinyurl.com/622frtw
[20:10] <Keybuk> I don't know, I'm not barry ;-)
[20:10] <stgraber> - merged base-files patch to resync archive with sjr's working branch. archive and udd branch should now be in sync.
[20:10] <slangasek> Keybuk: so in conclusion, I should do whatever I think is right? :)
[20:10] <stgraber> (from barry's e-mail to ubuntu-devel)
[20:10] <slangasek> stgraber: yep
[20:11] <Keybuk> slangasek: I think in general that is a good plan for life
[20:11] <slangasek> heh
[20:11] <Keybuk> for you, especially
[20:11] <stgraber> I remember that last time we talked about it in #ubuntu-devel, the discussion was that the changes barry uploaded were done before Debian started migrating to /run and that now that we're late for that change we should merge whatever they did
[20:15] <micahg> Keybuk: BTW, you could create a throwaway key just for uploading
[20:16] <slangasek> stgraber: yeah, that seems approximately correct
[20:16] <Keybuk> micahg: I'd have to install gpg on my Mac then ;-)
[20:16] <micahg> heh
[20:21] <Keybuk> natty really doesn't like VMs :-(
[20:25] <micahg> Keybuk: unity-2d works with one of the kvm drivers
[20:25] <Keybuk> micahg: all I see is an old-style gnome desktop with half the bits missing or not working
[20:26] <micahg> oh right,, classic was fallback
[20:26] <micahg> well, if you want unity, unity-2d it might work
[20:27]  * highvoltage wants to see what goes wrong in gnome 3 fallback this weekend. it works fine in debian
[20:35] <Sarvatt> ion: lots of people reporting no mouse/keyboard after the post alpha-2 updates, might be something to watch out for
[20:38] <ion> sarvatt: Thanks. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/807306 apparently
[20:38] <ion> Oh, that’s about a VM.
[20:38] <Sarvatt> yep indeed, people are hitting in on real installs too though
[20:39] <Keybuk> micahg: tbh, I just wanted something vaguely usable for doing Ubuntu work on
[20:40] <ion> Sounds like something i might be able to debug.
[20:40] <ion> “After this operation, 8,765 MB disk space will be freed.” (Deleting a bunch of games i meant to try out but haven’t got around to. :-P)
[20:41] <ion> A.k.a. spring cleaning before release upgrade.
[20:43] <bdmurray> slangasek: speaking of base-files bug 285734 is rather interesting too
[20:43] <bdmurray> I'm particularly worried about that guy's sister
[20:43] <bdmurray> "OMIgawds!"
[20:45] <slangasek> bdmurray: who presses Ctrl+Alt+F1 by accident? :)
[20:45] <ScottK> People like that aren't rare.
[20:45] <ScottK> The same ones that hit Ctel+Alt+Backspace
[20:46] <ScottK> Apparently it was a lot.
[20:46] <bdmurray> slangasek: I seem to recall mpt mentioning it in a presentation at UDS
[20:47] <slangasek> hmm
[20:48] <slangasek> well, at the moment I'm trying to unbreak debootstrap... I don't think I'm in the right headspace to properly consider edits to /etc/issue
[20:49] <infinity> I'm as puzzled as others by the idea that you can ctrl-alt-f1 by accident.
[20:49]  * tumbleweed used to press ctrl+alt+backspace quite a lot when I was using ctrl+alt to change workspaces
[20:50] <infinity> You could also end up with people, upon crashing their DM (okay, rare, but probably less rare than accidental ctrl-alt-f1) then wondering why the "text-mode's" instructions are a lie.
[20:52] <slangasek> crashing the dm is supposed to launch the failsafe X interface
[20:53] <slangasek> though I see now that /etc/init/failsafe-x.conf only handles gdm, not lightdm, hah
[21:02] <Sarvatt> slangasek: it's trying to exec /etc/gdm/failsafeXServer which doesn't exist too
[21:02] <infinity> slangasek: I like the theory and all, but there are still times when X is just so hideously hosed that you're ultimately going to end up at a terminal.  Or calling tech support.
[21:03] <Sarvatt> looks like that's now in xdiagnose installed to /usr/share/xdiagnose/failsafeXServer
[21:03] <slangasek> Sarvatt: ugh
[21:03] <bryceh> lightdm doesn't call it anyway
[21:03] <infinity> slangasek: I dunno.  I have no real objections to handholding in issue and motd, I just have old skool UNIX user grumpiness about issue being needlessly verbose, I suspect. ;)
[21:04] <bryceh> slangasek, lightdm just exits to console right now if X terminates during startup
[21:05] <infinity> slangasek: And one could keep it the same classic UNIX terseness with something like: "Ubuntu 10.04.2 LTS \n \l (Alt-F7 to return to GUI)"
[21:06] <infinity> slangasek: (And of course, even that's a blatant lie if you don't actually have X and/or something graphical on VT7)
[21:06] <bryceh> or if it is on vt8
[21:06] <infinity> Yeah, or that.
[21:07] <bryceh> pidof /usr/bin/X would give you whether X is running
[21:07] <bryceh> ps a | grep X shows it on tty7, so seems like would be straightforward to figure out where it is too
[21:08] <infinity> Yeah, but /etc/issue is just a text file.
[21:08] <broder> ConsoleKit also knows
[21:08] <infinity> So, this goes from a wishlist "update a text file" bug to something nasty involving hacking getty.
[21:09] <infinity> Which still doesn't work, since getty outputs to terminals when it spawns, not when you switch to them. :P
[21:09] <broder> infinity: one option would be something along the lines of "press enter to switch back to your session" or whatever
[21:09] <broder> instead of outputting a specific tty to switch to
[21:11] <infinity> You'd have to find a key sequence to trap that doesn't break the brains of every console user in the world.
[21:11] <infinity> (for instance, the first thing I do when I connect a serial terminal is hammer enter a few times to get a prompt)
[21:12] <infinity> Though, obviously, our slightly-odd getty codepath would only be running on VTs.
[21:12] <infinity> I dunno.  I think we've just proven the bug's a bit deeper than a text file addition, regardless.
[21:12] <bryceh> finally, a use for CAPSLOCK
[21:13] <broder> sure, i do the same with enter. the potentially simpler solution would be to just use enter anyway, but include in the "please press enter" printout instructions on how to disable that behavior
[21:13] <infinity> "To return to your graphical session, hit left, right, left, right, up, down, A, B, CAPS"
[21:13] <james_w> just make changing VT a sysreq combo
[21:13] <bryceh> if no user is logged in and it's just a login prompt, there's probably a set of keys which  have no purpose which could be used.  E.g. Home or Esc maybe
[21:14] <infinity> james_w: And how long until people complain that they can hit sysrq by accident?
[21:14] <infinity> james_w: Seems about as likely as ctrl-alt-f1, to be fair.
[21:14] <slangasek> not only is /etc/issue just a text file, it's output to the console in parallel to X startup
[21:14] <slangasek> right, infinity said that already
[21:14] <infinity> slangasek: Before, generally.
[21:14] <james_w> infinity, that's what was done for ctrl-alt-backspace
[21:14] <james_w> I haven't heard complaints
[21:14] <bryceh> I have ;-)
[21:14] <james_w> it was only a semi-serious suggestion anyway
[21:15] <infinity> james_w: I switch terminals a lot more than I need to kill X.
[21:15] <james_w> heh
[21:15] <james_w> complaints from people others that X developers :-)
[21:15] <infinity> (And, sometimes I switch terminals TO kill X, since ctrl-alt-bkspc no longer works out of the box)
[21:15] <bryceh> ;-)
[21:15] <slangasek> infinity: usually after :)
[21:16] <slangasek> infinity: we try to bring the X server up ASAP; we wait until rc is done before spawning getties
[21:16] <infinity> slangasek: Oh, right.  Start on stopped rc, I forgot about that change.
[21:16] <slangasek> at least for tty1
[21:16] <bryceh> c-a-b angst recently spotted @ http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2011/06/canonical-alienates-their-major-asset.html
[21:16] <infinity> slangasek: Stil, close enough to parallel to not really allow you to do silly things like this.
[21:17] <infinity> bryceh: I can't be bothered to read to article, but I love that the URI implies that our "major asset" is people who like to kill X servers.
[21:17] <infinity> s/read to/read the/
[21:18] <infinity> Besides, if he wants the old functionality back, all he has to do is install unity.
[21:18] <infinity> It's less predictable, but just as reliable.
[21:18] <bryceh> infinity, 'The first threads came apart when decisions were made to remove certain keyboard shortcuts, "for the good of the new user".  Ctrl/alt/delete and ctrl/alt/backspace were removed.'
[21:19] <infinity> Ctrl-Alt-Del isn't removed...
[21:20] <bryceh> plus it was upstream that removed the shortcut.  But why spoil a rant with messy facts.
[21:20] <infinity> That sort of proves his Ubuntu = Linux side-rant.
[21:20] <micahg> bryceh: it's in the comments
[21:20] <bryceh> micahg, yep
[21:21] <slangasek> ah, this is the HeliOS guy
[21:25] <bryceh> but in terms of actual ubuntu users, james_w is right, we haven't gotten bug reports about it.  Seems a total non-issue with our users.
[21:25] <james_w> I was commenting more about the lack of complaints that sysreq was too easy to hit
[21:25] <james_w> I realise that there were complaints about taking away ctrl-alt-backspace
[21:25] <bryceh> james_w, ah, also true
[21:25] <infinity> james_w: I'll file a bug.
[21:26] <james_w> or rather hiding it in the keyboard configuration
[21:26] <infinity> james_w: My 1 Sysrq bug will match the 1 Ctrl-Alt-F1 bug, and we can have a showdown. ;)
[21:26] <slangasek> bryceh: I don't think bug reports is an accurate measure of whether people are bothered by the Ctrl+Alt+BkSp change
[21:26] <maco> bryceh: did the dude JUST realise c-a-b is non-default *now*?
[21:27] <slangasek> I expect people who use Ctrl+Alt+BkSp to also be more likely to research issues before filing new bug reports
[21:27] <bryceh> maco, I assume he's been holding it in until now ;-)
[21:28] <bryceh> slangasek, I like the world you live in, with sane bug reporters, can I join?  :-)
[21:29] <slangasek> bryceh: well see, that just goes to show that the people you're getting bug reports aren't the ones who use c-a-b! :)
[21:29] <infinity> bryceh: It's easy, you just filter your bugmail and only read incoming mail from the 4 people you like.
[21:29] <bryceh> anyway, from what I understand of how c-a-b works, it likely isn't going to give the relief that it used to, since the freezy bits have moved from X to the kernel, and c-a-b won't help there
[21:31] <bryceh> it will help if a client goes seriously out of control and locks up X that way, but that seems to be thankfully rare in practice
[21:48] <bdmurray> slangasek: I seem to recall a guideline for patch numbering like 33-zyx.patch
[21:48] <bdmurray> slangasek: is there one?
[21:49] <infinity> bdmurray: Patch numbering made more sense with systems like simple-patchsys where they were applied in filesystem order.
[21:50] <infinity> bdmurray: But some large/complex source packages still like to codify meaning in numbers (like 000->500 = to/from upstream, 900+ = local only, never being forwarded, etc)
[21:51] <infinity> bdmurray: With people (in some cases, slowly) moving to source-format 3.0 and quilt, though, the filesystem ordering is meaningless, and even the coded meaning is only marginally useful, since they're all meant to have headers that don't suck.
[21:52] <bdmurray> ah okay thanks
[21:56] <slangasek> yeah, I don't know of any guideline for patch numbering
[21:57] <slangasek> there's a guideline for headers within the patches
[21:58] <infinity> Does dpkg-dev, devtools, or quilt, have a utility to list patches with consice header info?  I haven't looked.
[21:58] <infinity> concise too.
[21:59] <infinity> devscripts, even.  It's clearly Friday afternoon.
[22:12] <bdrung_> infinity: it's Saturday. :p
[22:36] <micahg> bdrung_: the debian package doesn't include the entire multiarch diff as specified in the 1.4.6-5 changelog, is that not a problem?
[22:37] <micahg> bdrung_: sorry, libgcrypt11 ^^
[22:38] <bdrung_> micahg: multiarching it was done differently
[22:38] <bdrung_> micahg: the result should be the same
[22:51] <bdmurray> @pilot out


[01:47] <DoYouKnow> hi. does pangolin have integrated firmware for bcm4312?
[01:47] <DoYouKnow> I think that's my card... it's under bcm4328, I think
[01:47] <DoYouKnow> there are ~2 names for it
[01:59] <pangolin> !broadcom
[01:59] <pangolin> DoYouKnow: not sure if it is built in or not but the above info will help you get it working
[03:52] <TheBuntu> i found this command on http://www.thehosthelpers.com/general-chat/upgrade-ubuntu-11-10-to-12-04-today-1797/  ... is this a true upgrade? ... sudo sed -i s'/oneiric/precise/g' /etc/apt/sources.list ....    sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade --purge && sudo apt-get clean
[04:00] <pangolin> itwill "work:
[04:00] <pangolin> not recommended way to do it though
[04:01] <pangolin> err this keyboard needs to go
[04:02] <TheBuntu> so far 12.04 seems pretty good
[04:02] <TheBuntu> what wrong with the keyboard.. key going bad
[04:03] <pangolin> my space key
[04:03] <nonix4> TheBuntu: hmm, I haven't yet got it working outside livecd, hitting too many bugs on the way...
[04:04] <TheBuntu> nonix4,  i used that command i found on the web and upgraded 11.10. Works pretty good...
[04:07] <nonix4> TheBuntu: hitting things that look like Bug #120375 symptoms reappearing for example...
[04:13] <TheBuntu> nonix4, i don't have a raid so i guess thats why it went smooth for me
[13:37] <BluesKaj> Howdy all
[13:39] <penguin42> Hey BK
[15:53] <tsurc> hi  anyone had any problems with 12.04 and Ipv6? Im not seeing any router advertisements from my router, yet both my galaxy nexus and this very laptop running centos see them fine.
[17:24] <Sil4nc4> hi why is the precise raw disk space 750MB? It does not fit on my cd i want to burn? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20120114/
[17:24] <pangolin> Sil4nc4: the alpha iso's are sometimes over sized
[17:25] <Sil4nc4> so ...
[17:25] <Sil4nc4> nothing todo about it?
[17:25] <LjL> it says "Warning: This image is oversized (which is a bug) and will not fit onto a standard 700MiB CD. However, you may still test it using a DVD, a USB drive, or a virtual machine."
[17:25] <Sil4nc4> ok
[17:25] <pangolin> those are your options ^
[17:25] <Sil4nc4> not about to waste a dvd
[17:26] <penguin42> use a thumb drive
[17:26] <pangolin> go virtual :)
[17:26] <Sil4nc4> cant
[17:26] <Sil4nc4> will check usb
[17:26] <pangolin> well if none of those options are viable I'm afraid you are out of luck :/
[18:09] <jtaylor> unfortunatly 750mb is a deliberate decision
[18:09] <jtaylor> no conincidental oversize
[18:09] <jtaylor> pangolin: ^
[18:10] <pangolin> jtaylor: silly decision if Ubuntu is to be accessible to all human beings
[18:10] <LjL> yes, i read about that too
[18:10] <LjL> but i wasn't sure it was a final decision
[18:10] <jtaylor> its weird
[18:10] <pangolin> not everybody can afford DVD and not everybody can boot from USB
[18:10] <Ian_Corne> pangolin: maybe we should make it 3mb so it fits on a floppy?
[18:11] <pangolin> Ian_Corne: maybe you should not be so damn sarcastic and take into account the promise that was made 7 years ago by the founder.
[18:11] <LjL> +1
[18:11] <Daekdroom> It was starting to get too difficult to fit an OS like Ubuntu in 700MiB
[18:11] <Ian_Corne> pangolin: there are cds that hold 750mb I think even
[18:11] <Daekdroom> And Ubuntu would hardly run in a computer that does not have a DVD drive yet.
[18:12] <Daekdroom> (Lubuntu, on the other hand)
[18:12] <Daekdroom> Up to 800MiB, Ian_Corne
[18:12] <Ian_Corne> 700mb was the lcd of all cds
[18:12] <Ian_Corne> so it's still possible
[18:12] <Ian_Corne> can you still request a free cd?
[18:12] <LjL> no
[18:12] <pangolin> Ian_Corne: the point i am trying to make is that the people ubuntu is trying to reach ( not so much anymore i think) are the people who can't afford the larger format cd/dvd/usb
[18:13] <Daekdroom> I don't see a problem there as long as Xubuntu and Lubuntu still ship in 700MiB, really.
[18:13] <pangolin> anyway, it is not an issue for me but it is for millions of potential users.
[18:14] <LjL> well then i don't "see a problem" as long as some other distro ships in 700MB, for that matter
[18:14] <LjL> people will just switch to it, fine, good riddance
[18:15] <pangolin> I am glad my tattoo has more meaning to me than just being an Ubuntu lover.
[18:15] <pangolin> Because if this trend continues I am not sure how much more i can advocate for Ubuntu. :/
[18:16] <LjL> at least it's a feeling shared with a few other people, so you know it's not just you.
[18:17] <pangolin> LjL: it makes me sad though
[18:18] <Sil4nc4> for me the problem is not the size, but i did not have my usb or a blank dvd disk @ hand
[18:18] <LjL> which means it is the size, doesn't it?
[18:18] <Sil4nc4> and since i only had 700Mb CD's to put it on for the moment
[18:19] <Sil4nc4>  / had / have
[18:19] <pangolin> Sil4nc4: right, now Imagine you did not have the ability to get a usb or dvd
[18:19] <LjL> i've used Ubuntu for ages without having a DVD drive
[18:19] <pangolin> you would be out of luck and might go looking for a different distro
[18:19] <Sil4nc4> well then i need to wait untill it fits that format no? Or switch to another distro or OS
[18:20] <urlin2u> ubuntu can be installed from the ISO in a partition using grub
[18:20] <pangolin> Sil4nc4: apparently it will not be fitting on 700mb any longer
[18:20] <Sil4nc4> good to know
[18:20] <pangolin> urlin2u: how accessible is that to the new user?
[18:20] <pangolin> we are supposed to make linux easy...
[18:21] <Sil4nc4> i never check ISO anymore, since I use to boot them using PXE or USB but that is not the case.
[18:21] <pangolin> This is an argument I am really not in the mood for. I am not happy with the current direction Canonical is taking Ubuntu in is all.
[18:21] <Daekdroom>  What about shipping in 2CDs?
[18:21] <Sil4nc4> for most new people that could be an iso
[18:21] <urlin2u> pangolin, every release fits on a cd though, it is not a perfect world where everybodies needs are served in the end
[18:21] <Sil4nc4> issue
[18:22] <Daekdroom> urlin2u, the ISO size limit was increased to 750MiB for the 12.04 final release. I don't get what you're saying.
[18:22] <Sil4nc4> once installed one can download the software using the USC
[18:23] <Daekdroom> Sil4nc4, nope. Some people don't have good enough internet connection.
[18:23] <Sil4nc4> point
[18:23] <Daekdroom> It's a issue as big as the CD thing.
[18:23] <Daekdroom> Which is why I don't mind the 750MiB ISO
[18:23] <urlin2u> Daekdroom, I didn't know that, I can't get it to run anyway every daily crashes, on my computer.
[18:24] <pangolin> try the alternate install
[18:24] <pangolin> desktop does that for me also
[18:25] <urlin2u> pangolin, gets to the desktop, but crashes there, I have gotten it installed 4-5 times, crashed after update upgrade, ran great when I updated to it right at the beginning though.
[18:27] <penguin42> urlin2u: Probably worth trying to get some logs to find out why
[18:29] <urlin2u> penguin42, nah I generally load the pre-releases, but just use them out of curiosity, no biggie.
[18:29] <penguin42> urlin2u: Thing is it might not get fixed for the release if you don't report it and give the info to help figure out why
[18:30] <penguin42> urlin2u: SInce it doesn't happen for everyone it might not be happening for the devs
[18:30] <urlin2u> penguin42, I have a pretty generic setup a acer d250 netbook no extra drivers needed I suspect it will be fixed.
[18:31] <penguin42> urlin2u: Well I hope all the acer d250 owners don't think the same way!
[18:34] <FernandoMiguel> hey
[18:44] <yofel> hm, did firefox suddenly switch to gtk3? It's not using my gtk2 theme anymore
[18:48] <Daekdroom> yofel, it depends on libgtk2.0-0 according to 'apt-cache showpkg firefox'
[18:48] <yofel> yeah, which is why I'm confused
[18:49] <yofel> or it's just ignoring my kde color scheme settings - while thunderbird works fine
[18:49] <yofel> seems to just be the color settings
[18:51] <Sil4nc4> precise not good for testing live cd function, since it succeeds in disabling my bluetooth keyboard @ a certain time in the boot process
[18:51] <penguin42> Sil4nc4: That's a perfect test! File it!
[18:52] <Sil4nc4> will do
[18:54] <penguin42> yofel: Still seems to have libgtk-x11-2.0 and stuff from gtk-2.0/ mapped in my instance here
[18:55] <yofel> yeah, looks like it does use oxygen-gtk2 here, just for some reason ignores the colorscheme setting
[18:55] <penguin42> yofel: oxygen-gtk freeks some stuff out
[18:56] <yofel> still, this worked when I last started firefox like 3 days ago
[18:58] <penguin42> yofel: Do you ever use gnucash ?
[18:58] <yofel> nope
[18:59] <penguin42> yofel: I get flickering of the menus under KDE, not figured out if it's oxygen-gtk yet
[19:02] <coz_> hey guys, any easy way to update from natty?
[19:03] <BluesKaj> coz_,  do you have a /home partition ?
[19:03] <coz_> BluesKaj,  well I generally just let ubuntu partition by defaults
[19:04] <coz_> BluesKaj,  how is kde on 12.04?
[19:04] <varikonniemi> easy?
[19:04] <varikonniemi> update manager should update to 11.10, no idea how to get to +1
[19:04] <coz_> I can probably just download the alternate and let it update yes?
[19:06] <varikonniemi> i installed the daily build in my virtualbox and it seems to be working fine.
[19:06] <varikonniemi> this is great news since 12.04 alpha was buggy beyond usable
[19:06] <coz_> varikonniemi,  cool, I will try alternate update see if that works
[19:06] <varikonniemi> ?
[19:06] <coz_> BluesKaj,  I am curious about  kde on 12.04 :)
[19:07] <varikonniemi> coz_, sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade
[19:08] <coz_> varikonniemi,  I believe, if memory serves, the alternate cd  should allow an update from either synaptic or software center I beleive
[19:08] <varikonniemi> then update-manager -d
[19:08] <BluesKaj> coz_, , then there are 2 methods , sudo do-release-upgrade -d to 11.0 then again to 12.04 , or burn a daily 12.04 build to media and make 2 partitions , a / partiton beside a /home . The /home partition contains all you present data as long as you don't format it
[19:08] <coz_> BluesKaj,  ok understood,, I  may just go with the daily build clean install then
[19:08] <BluesKaj> oops drop the -d
[19:09] <BluesKaj> , use -d when you upgrade from 11,.10
[19:09] <coz_> BluesKaj,  how is KDE?
[19:09] <varikonniemi> is do-release-upgrade same as update-manager -d ?
[19:09] <BluesKaj> seems fine so far , just a few small prbs with permissions
[19:10] <coz_> BluesKaj,  ok cool, I may give that a try then
[19:10] <BluesKaj> varikonniemi,  it is but " -d " signifies upgrading to a development release like 12.04
[19:10] <varikonniemi> you are just asking for trouble if you install +1 on normal system
[19:11] <coz_> varikonniemi,  i dont mind the trouble
[19:11] <BluesKaj> coz_,  which method are you going to use ?
[19:11] <varikonniemi> BluesKaj, all the guides i see have -d
[19:11] <varikonniemi> and they are guides to go from 11.04 to 11.10
[19:11] <varikonniemi> not development?
[19:11] <coz_> BluesKaj,  I think i will just download the daily build and clean install
[19:12] <BluesKaj> that's for upgrading to an alpha or beta release , varikonniemi
[19:12] <coz_> BluesKaj,  I am interested in how KDE is going to be for 12.04,,
[19:12] <BluesKaj> coz_,  good choice
[19:13] <coz_> I have always directed people to clean install over upgrading anyway
[19:14] <BluesKaj> varikonniemi,  check the guides , they might be outdated , because if you're 11.04 and try do-release-upgrade -d , you'll find that you're upgrading 12.04 not 11.10 ,then you can expects alot of problems
[19:14] <BluesKaj> upgrading to 12.04
[19:14] <coz_> ^^^
[19:16] <BluesKaj> 11.04 to 11.10 the command is:  sudo do-release-upgrade
[19:16] <coz_> varikonniemi,  I have always suggested clean installs ,, even for daily builds, because ubuntu upgrades are consistently inconsistent
[19:16] <udog> hi all, trying to install precise on a netbook, it hangs and stops on copying files
[19:17] <udog> is there a way to fix that
[19:17] <udog> ?
[19:17] <coz_> udog,  not sure,, I am just now trying 12.04 install
[19:18] <coz_> udog,  I assume the drive is not full,,,yes?
[19:18] <udog> right
[19:18] <udog> i've installed oneiric instaed without any trouble
[19:18] <coz_> udog,  mm I dont have a netbood available here even to test this
[19:18] <BluesKaj> coz_,  I just installed the 12.04 daily build about an hour ago and all went well
[19:19] <coz_> udog,  unless there are some issues at this stage with installing to netbook
[19:19] <udog> seems like ubiquity crashes on copying files, after partitioning
[19:19] <coz_> BluesKaj,  excellent !
[19:19] <varikonniemi> i have always done a clean install when upgrading os's
[19:19] <varikonniemi> both under windows and under ubuntu
[19:19] <udog> 'cause the window freeze
[19:19] <coz_> udog,  that might possibly be a bug  at this stage,, but I am not sure
[19:19] <coz_> varikonniemi,  excellent thinking :)
[19:19] <varikonniemi> my parents computers though i have just done upgrade
[19:19] <varikonniemi> and they are working fine
[19:20] <BluesKaj> i ususally install the OS to / , and keep the data on the /home partition
[19:20] <varikonniemi> i have only / and swap on all my computers
[19:20] <coz_> varikonniemi,  that's good news,, but I simply dont trust upgrades,,, over the years  I have found , particularly ubuntu, upgrades are not consistent
[19:20] <varikonniemi> well i have only experience with 2 computers from 11.04 to 11.10
[19:21] <coz_> varikonniemi,  understood,,, I have been at this since ubuntu started ,,
[19:21] <varikonniemi> :)
[19:21] <coz_> varikonniemi,   before that BeOs and RedHat
[19:21] <udog> coz_, what if i try to upgrade from oneiric?
[19:21] <varikonniemi> redhat is no longer
[19:21] <coz_> udog,  that might work
[19:21] <udog> a big boom, maybe?
[19:21]  * BluesKaj has too much media to do clean installs ...I will be doing them shortly after I install an NAS box
[19:22] <coz_> udog,  :)  I dont think so
[19:22] <udog> coz_, thank you
[19:22] <varikonniemi> i did try every ubuntu from 8 forwards, and 11.04 was the one that sold linux to me
[19:22] <udog> i'll try that way
[19:22] <coz_> BluesKaj,  yeah that I understand,, but I have learned from past that backups are important for me because I can be a real "doof" at times :)
[19:22] <coz_> varikonniemi,  excellent :)
[19:23] <varikonniemi> i briefly used 10.10 but it just felt ancient
[19:23] <coz_> udog,  let us know how that goes,, i am certainly interested to know
[19:23] <coz_> varikonniemi,  i didnt not like 10.10 much ,, I think I went back to 10.04 at that point
[19:24] <udog> coz_, as soon i'll be back to tell
[19:24] <BluesKaj> coz i did a clean install to 11.10 totally , but backing 300G worth of media was a time consuming chore, since i had to do it between 2 other pcs
[19:24] <coz_> udog,  cool thanks
[19:24] <imnichol> Alright, I'm trying to report a bug, but launchpad keeps marking it as a duplicate of a private bug
[19:24] <varikonniemi> BluesKaj, don't you have OS disk separate?
[19:24] <imnichol> How the hell am I supposed to contribute if I can't even see the bug that I"m supposed to comment on?
[19:24] <coz_> BluesKaj,  I understand for sure.. I know guys like you with that much to back up is a PITA
[19:25] <varikonniemi> i have a 60G vertex3 as OS disk, and it is really easily backed up with dd to my 2T hdd
[19:25] <coz_> imnichol,  mmm.. maybe one of the ops can help with that one
[19:25] <BluesKaj> varikonniemi,  it's not a clean install if you leave your data on a /home partition
[19:25] <jbicha> imnichol: what's the bug number?
[19:25] <imnichol> coz_, who are they and how do I get in touch with them?
[19:26] <imnichol> 916880
[19:26] <imnichol> jbicha, that's my bug.
[19:26] <coz_> imnichol,  did they give a number for the "private" bug?
[19:27] <imnichol> coz_, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/849037
[19:27] <BluesKaj> varikonniemi,  exactly , I'm buying a large HDD /NAS box soon which will be our networked backup
[19:27] <varikonniemi> BluesKaj, i don't have a /home aprtition, it is under /
[19:27] <jbicha> imnichol: bug 849037
[19:27] <BluesKaj> yes I know
[19:27] <BluesKaj> varikonniemi,
[19:27] <imnichol> jbicha, it's marked as private, so I can't see it
[19:28] <coz_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/oneconf/+bug/849037
[19:28] <jbicha> I fixed it for you
[19:28] <imnichol> Oh man, it's not anymore
[19:28] <imnichol> jbicha, thank you
[19:28] <imnichol> coz_, thank you as well.
[19:28] <imnichol> jbicha, It's marked as expired, should I mark it as something else?
[19:29] <coz_> imnichol,  I do see that bug as being markes from private to public
[19:29] <coz_> marked
[19:30] <imnichol> coz_, That just happened a few seconds ago.
[19:30] <coz_> ah ok
[19:30] <imnichol> But it's assigned to no one and is marked as expired, which is obviously not good
[19:30] <jbicha> imnichol: it's expired because there wasn't enough information to do anything with the bug, if you can add more info, you're welcome to reopen it
[19:31] <imnichol> jbicha, what should I reopen it as?
[19:31] <jbicha> just change the status back to new or confirmed
[19:31] <imnichol> Ok.
[19:31] <imnichol> Thank you both, jbicha, coz_
[19:32] <coz_> imnichol,  no problem  although jbicha  was far more helpful :)
[19:33] <imnichol> So now what do I do in order to get it noticed by someone since it's currently unassigned?
[19:34] <penguin42> imnichol: didrocks asked for a file - but you didn't supply it
[19:59] <FernandoMiguel> http://divajutta.com/doctormo/ubunchu/
[20:00] <FernandoMiguel> LOL
[20:06] <varikonniemi> japan is awesum
[20:07] <BluesKaj> I was hoping to find a differnt source for libdvdcss2 other than the restricted-extras/formats , any ideas ?
[20:08] <BluesKaj> restricted draws down too much unecessary junk
[20:09] <BluesKaj> unecessary=outdated
[20:14] <trism> BluesKaj: just install libdvdread4?
[20:22] <BluesKaj> trism,  libdvdcss2 isn't included in libdvdread 4 according to the description in synaptic
[20:28] <BluesKaj> trism, i followed the commands here and it worked , guess it's a backdoor to medibuntu.  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/PlayingDVDs
[20:41] <trism> BluesKaj: that package has the install-css.sh script
[20:42] <BluesKaj> yup
[20:42] <BluesKaj> should work tho
[20:42] <BluesKaj> brb
[21:38] <Daekdroom> Do unity and multitouch still not get along with each other?
[21:39] <Daekdroom> Gah. I got things really mixed up there.
[21:40] <Daekdroom> Meant to ask whether Unity still refused to start in a system without utouch support
[21:55] <aguitel> i am in xubuntu 12.04 ,glxgears are 300 frames in 5 sec but in ubuntu 10.04 are 2300 frames in 5 sec,why ?
[21:55] <Daekdroom> aguitel, glxgears is not a benchmark
[21:56] <aguitel> Daekdroom, and what is ?
[21:56] <FernandoMiguel> nothing really
[21:56] <FernandoMiguel> is anything slower to you ?
[21:57] <aguitel> FernandoMiguel, not now
[21:59] <aguitel> this is my graphic:00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82865G Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 02)
[22:01] <FernandoMiguel> wow that's old
[22:02] <aguitel> FernandoMiguel, i am poor man
[22:04] <FernandoMiguel> :)
[23:52] <FernandoMiguel> nite


[01:50] <\sh> moins
[01:50] <\sh> does anyone know if there are debian packages for hp server utils like hpasm or hpacucli?
[08:41] <lullabud> anybody have experience with clvm and the redhat-cluster-suite on 6.06?
[09:08] <fabbione> lullabud: yes
[09:50] <CMM1411> Samba is "EVIL" .. I've got it "Share to Everyone" and still the XP boxes can "See" the server, but not inside. I've added them via "smbpasswd -a <user> and on the XP machines when attempting to map I click "Use different username" .. and weather I browse for the server, or type in \\<IP_ADDRESS>\var\www\websites .. or not it doesn't go ..
[09:50] <CMM1411> help?
[09:50] <CMM1411> #ubuntu
[09:53] <lullabud> fabbione:  i can't get clvm to even install.  i've even tried `apt-source -b clvm` and it keeps giving dpkg errors.
[09:53] <fabbione> lullabud: https://bugz.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/lvm2/+bug/56496
[09:54] <fabbione> lullabud: i uploaded the fixed packages about 10 minutes ago
[09:54] <fabbione> it will take more or less a week to have them in updates
[09:55] <lullabud> wow, awesome. =)
[09:56] <fabbione> a solution is to configure the cluster and run cman to form the cluster
[09:56] <fabbione> and then apt-get install..
[09:56] <fabbione> that will make clvm start
[09:57] <fabbione> (and install)
[09:57] <lullabud> fabbione:  many thanks, i might give that a shot.
[10:52] <grogoreo> hi
[10:53] <grogoreo> should a firewall (more specifically Shorewall) affect the speed of the connection? If not, then I'm having troubles with Shorewall as I can't seem to ping the server though I can connect to its services like SSH and HTTP.
[10:54] <infinity> You're filtering ICMP, that's why you can't ping.
[10:56] <grogoreo> could filtering ICMP slow down the connection as well? As if I stop the daemon it quickens up
[10:56] <grogoreo> is Shorewall just a wrapper for IPTables?
[10:56] <ajmitch> yes, filtering ICMP could potentially cause many problems
[11:06] <grogoreo> I can't really see where filtering ICMP is in the configs. Could Shorewall also be hogging resources?
[11:08] <grogoreo> ah, I've found it. You put it in the rules file


[01:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: pam (bionic-proposed/main) [1.1.8-3.6ubuntu2 => 1.1.8-3.6ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (core)
[01:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: pam (cosmic-proposed/main) [1.1.8-3.6ubuntu2 => 1.1.8-3.6ubuntu3] (core)
[04:34] <superm1> Hi, can an archive admin please poke fwupd in disco?  It's awaiting publication due to UEFI binaries
[05:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Netboot amd64 [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[05:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Netboot i386 [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[05:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Desktop amd64 [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[05:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Desktop i386 [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[05:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Base amd64 [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[05:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Base arm64 [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[05:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Base armhf [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[05:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Base i386 [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[05:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Base powerpc [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[05:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Base ppc64el [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[05:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Base s390x [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[07:41] <doko> why are fastqc and picard-tools autopkg tests triggered by openjdk-lts?
[08:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New sync: sway (disco-release/primary) [1.0~rc3-1]
[08:51] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted sway [sync] (disco-release) [1.0~rc3-1]
[09:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: libsdl2 (bionic-proposed/universe) [2.0.8+dfsg1-1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> => 2.0.8+dfsg1-1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (kubuntu)
[10:03] <LocutusOfBorg> bdmurray, it should be ok now
[10:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-azure [amd64] (trusty-proposed/main) [4.15.0-1040.44~14.04.1] (kernel)
[10:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-azure [amd64] (trusty-proposed) [4.15.0-1040.44~14.04.1]
[11:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: libreoffice (cosmic-proposed/main) [1:6.1.4-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> => 1:6.1.5-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (kubuntu, ubuntu-desktop)
[11:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: libreoffice-l10n (cosmic-proposed/main) [1:6.1.4-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> => 1:6.1.5-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (ubuntu-desktop)
[12:35] <rbalint> sil2100, if you have sru cycles please promote unattended-upgrades for cosmic and bionic, also please accept it to xenial-proposed
[12:38] <sil2100> rbalint: on it
[12:47] <slashd> o/ sil2100 could you please approve upload in B & C for pam ?
[12:51] <sil2100> slashd: will try! I'll be doing the .6 publishing dance soon though
[12:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: qtbase-opensource-src (cosmic-proposed/main) [5.11.1+dfsg-7ubuntu2 => 5.11.1+dfsg-7ubuntu3] (kubuntu, qt5, ubuntu-desktop)
[12:56] <slashd> sil2100, ok no worries
[12:56] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted unattended-upgrades [source] (xenial-proposed) [1.1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>~16.04.2]
[13:21] <Laney> juliank / sil2100: If you have a few minutes, do you feel like implementing a bit of wait/retry around uploading files to swift from the worker? I don't know if you're getting the spam I am, but swift is flaky as hell when it's replicating to new volumes and results are failing to upload properly. https://pastebin.canonical.com/p/wt9tgBtrMN/
[13:29] <sil2100> Laney: not sure if I'll have any cycles today, sadly
[13:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted pam [source] (cosmic-proposed) [1.1.8-3.6ubuntu3]
[13:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted pam [source] (bionic-proposed) [1.1.8-3.6ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>]
[13:36] <Laney> bloop
[13:37]  * sil2100 is prepping the .6 release to go out
[13:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Mythbuntu Desktop amd64 [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[13:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Mythbuntu Desktop i386 [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[13:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Netboot arm64 [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[13:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Netboot armhf [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[13:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Netboot ppc64el [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[13:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Netboot s390x [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[13:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu MATE Desktop amd64 [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[13:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu MATE Desktop i386 [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[13:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server amd64 [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[13:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server arm64 [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[13:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server armhf+raspi2 [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[13:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server i386 [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[13:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server powerpc [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[13:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server ppc64el [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[13:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server s390x [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[13:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Xubuntu Desktop amd64 [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[13:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Xubuntu Desktop i386 [Xenial 16.04.6] has been marked as ready
[13:39] <sil2100> ^ I marked those images that were tested as ready
[13:40]  * willcooke checks desktop
[13:40] <willcooke> yeah, marked already
[13:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New sync: haskell-secret-sharing (disco-proposed/primary) [<IP_ADDRESS>-6]
[13:49]  * Laney does it then
[13:57] <juliank> Laney: sorry, had a lunch break
[13:57] <Laney> np, feel free to review / fix the commit in master
[14:00] <Laney> now it's my turn to eat
[14:13] <sil2100> Ok, publishing the images
[14:22] <oSoMoN> sil2100, when you have a moment, would you mind accepting libreoffice{,-l10n} 1:6.1.5-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> into cosmic-proposed?
[14:27] <sil2100> oSoMoN: will try o/
[14:36] <oSoMoN> thanks!
[14:40] <ddstreet> xnox hi, checking on systemd upload - unless you have one planned for today with the list of patches slashd emailed you, we're planning to upload systemd srus today - let us know asap please if you are planning to instead
[14:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: cinder (cosmic-proposed/main) [2:13.0.2-0ubuntu1 => 2:13.0.3-0ubuntu1] (openstack, ubuntu-server)
[15:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: curtin (cosmic-proposed/main) [18.1-59-g0f993084-0ubuntu1 => 18.2-10-g7afd77fa-0ubuntu1~18.10.1] (ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-server)
[15:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: resolvconf (bionic-proposed/universe) [1.79ubuntu10 => 1.79ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (no packageset)
[15:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: resolvconf (cosmic-proposed/universe) [1.79ubuntu10 => 1.79ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (no packageset)
[15:43] <ddstreet> sil2100 i know you're super busy with the point release, but this resolvconf sru is for a regression fix; do you know if anyone else on the sru team is available to review/approve it?  bdmurray or rbasak maybe?  lp #1817903
[15:51] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: horizon (cosmic-proposed/main) [3:14.0.1-0ubuntu2 => 3:14.0.2-0ubuntu1] (openstack, ubuntu-server)
[15:52] <sil2100> ddstreet: not sure, but hopefully I should be done with the image publishing in an hour or so
[15:52] <sil2100> Might want to do a quick SRU shift then, since I basically skipped mine today (mostly)
[15:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: curtin (bionic-proposed/main) [18.1-59-g0f993084-0ubuntu1~18.04.1 => 18.2-10-g7afd77fa-0ubuntu1~18.04.1] (ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-server)
[15:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: swift (cosmic-proposed/main) [2.19.0-0ubuntu1 => 2.19.1-0ubuntu1] (openstack, ubuntu-server)
[15:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: nova (cosmic-proposed/main) [2:18.0.3-0ubuntu2 => 2:18.1.0-0ubuntu1] (openstack, ubuntu-server)
[15:54] <rbasak> ddstreet, sil2100: if it helps, the SRU makes sense to me, but I don't have time to do a full review right now :-/
[15:54] <rbasak> (and IMHO a detailed looks is necessary only because of the severity of the consequences of getting it wrong)
[15:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: curtin (xenial-proposed/main) [18.1-59-g0f993084-0ubuntu1~16.04.1 => 18.2-10-g7afd77fa-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (ubuntu-server)
[15:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: lmdb (bionic-proposed/universe) [0.9.21-1 => 0.9.21-1ubuntu2~bionic18.04] (kubuntu)
[15:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: lmdb (cosmic-proposed/universe) [0.9.22-1 => 0.9.22-1ubuntu1~bionic18.10] (kubuntu)
[16:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: lmdb (cosmic-proposed/universe) [0.9.22-1 => 0.9.22-1ubuntu1~cosmic18.10] (kubuntu)
[16:04] <acheronuk> bdmurray: uploads in response to your lmdb rejection message I think ^^
[16:54] <Laney> retry thing seems to be working more or less
[16:55] <Laney> seems swift is saaaaaaaaaaaddddddddddd at the minute
[16:56] <vorlon> doko: libcolt-free-java, reproducible for me in a disco env w/ LANG=C.UTF-8
[16:57] <vorlon> Laney: yeah I was noticing this, have you asked IS?
[16:58] <wgrant> lol
[17:00] <Laney> think they know ;-)
[17:00]  * Laney snuggles wgrant
[17:06] <sil2100> ...ok, 16.04.6 should be out
[17:06] <Laney> long live xenial
[17:07] <vorlon> doko: so, run that sed command with LANG=C, so that sed doesn't refuse to process a line with invalid input
[17:07]  * sil2100 celebrates the release all by himself, dancing in the corner
[17:07] <sil2100> (it's a very unimpressive release)
[17:07] <sil2100> ;)
[17:07] <vorlon> sil2100: :)  well done, regardless
[17:08] <cwayne> sil2100: every release is impressive in it's own way :)
[17:08] <sil2100> Thanks ;p Let me send out the announcement then
[17:09] <sil2100> Guess I'll wait for stuff to propagate first
[17:09] <Laney> well, we had a couple of incidents
[17:09] <Laney> so it certainly is a proper release :D
[17:11] <tsimonq2> 'tis releasemanagering - it's all tested and ready to go, then respin :P
[17:11] <tsimonq2> Congrats though :)
[17:18]  * doko hands sil2100 a kinnie
[17:28] <sil2100> doko: better not!
[17:28] <sil2100> ;)
[17:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected lmdb [source] (cosmic-proposed) [0.9.22-1ubuntu1~bionic18.10]
[17:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: mutter (cosmic-proposed/main) [3.30.2-1~ubuntu18.10.3 => 3.30.2-1~ubuntu18.10.4] (desktop-extra, ubuntu-desktop)
[18:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected fwupd [amd64] (disco-proposed) [1.2.4-3]
[18:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected fwupd [i386] (disco-proposed) [1.2.4-3]
[18:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected fwupd [arm64] (disco-proposed) [1.2.4-3]
[18:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected fwupd [armhf] (disco-proposed) [1.2.4-3]
[18:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted fwupd [amd64] (disco-proposed) [1.2.5-1]
[18:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted fwupd [armhf] (disco-proposed) [1.2.5-1]
[18:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted fwupd [arm64] (disco-proposed) [1.2.5-1]
[18:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted fwupd [i386] (disco-proposed) [1.2.5-1]
[19:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: virt-manager (bionic-proposed/universe) [1:1.5.1-0ubuntu1.1 => 1:1.5.1-0ubuntu1.2] (no packageset)
[23:13] <sil2100> ddstreet: hey! I had a quick look at the resolvconf change, but I think I'll have to defer the final review to someone else or actually pull in some expertise
[23:13] <sil2100> I don't feel knowledgable enough to know the full consequences here
[23:14] <sil2100> rbasak, vorlon: ^ can one of you guys take a look at it instead?
[23:14] <vorlon> wince
[23:14] <sil2100> It's resolvconf in cosmic and bionic
[23:14] <ddstreet> sil2100 thnx :)
[23:14] <vorlon> I am not impartial; I tried to get the package removed for bionic
[23:15] <sil2100> The change seems *sane*, but is that change desirable in bionic?
[23:17]  * sil2100 checks something
[23:17]  * ddstreet stepping away for dinner soon but will check back later in case there's any questions for me about resolvconf sru
[23:22] <vorlon> ddstreet: I think the information you've included under regression-potential should actually be listed as test cases
[23:24] <sil2100> So looking at it some more and getting some context, I personally feel this is the right thing to SRU
[23:59] <sil2100> vorlon: are you reviewing this SRU? Or only took a look?
[23:59] <vorlon> sil2100: I'm not holding any lock on it, anyway


[03:35] <zequence> infinity: Thanks. I'll do that
[08:31] <zequence> I'm trying to track down where this goes wrong in the source for linux-lowlatency Bug #1165259
[08:32] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1165259 in linux-meta-lowlatency (Ubuntu) "13.04 Beta1 -- symlink missing for Linux Headers /usr/src" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1165259
[08:32] <zequence> If someone knows this stuff well, I wouldn't mind to get some pointers :)


[08:04] <praisethemoon> good day folks
[11:05] <elacheche> Hey folks!
[11:07] <elacheche> nizarus: Since when I started my cron that check ATI's mirror status the mirror never get down x)
[11:07] <nizarus> lol elacheche tu fais peur :p
[11:07] <nizarus> moi ça fait des mois que je ne l'utilise plus :/
[11:08] <elacheche> lool.. I told nobody about it x)
[11:08] <elacheche> Not only you.. Too many people stopped using it.. :/
[11:09] <elacheche> I'll try to host my stats ASAP.. Then ask Zied if we can automate the sharing of the usage stats so I can add them to my graphs..
[11:12] <elacheche> You know I'm not a dev, so things are moving slowly here x) Once I have a fully working BASIC script/app I'll open source it and ask for contribs → already created a private repo on git.dev.tn to track changes
[11:12] <elacheche> LP & bzr are not a very good choice.. :/
[11:15] <nizarus> ok
[12:14]  * elacheche is AFK
[13:04] <pavlushka> Greetings everyone:)


[01:58] <Guest37194> I may have corrected the restarting problem I was having, by changing the usb port the mouse was using
[05:12] <aus_mal> Hi, can anyone help me with fixing an issue where highlighted parts of the desktop turn black?
[05:12] <aus_mal> *forgot to say please
[07:01] <glino> Das Paketinstallationsprogramm bleibt leer und lässt sich auch nicht aktualisieren obwohl eine Internetverbindung besteht.
[09:15] <mate|70390> hi
[09:29] <karjala_> hi
[11:15] <codeiter> hi, i try to install addional theme from ubuntu-mate-welcome but i got:   Package arc-theme isn't available
[13:44] <dustin> what is this
[13:44] <Jack_Sparrow__> Ubuntu Mate Support
[14:38] <deskwizard> any of you ever tried using spek on 16.04 ?
[14:40] <deskwizard> nvm
[14:57] <codeiter> @deskwizard i tried 'spek' on 16.04.2 LTS (Xenial Xerus) 32-bit. work perfectly & quickly
[14:58] <deskwizard> codeiter: thanks, it was a case of RTFM
[17:05] <Runferurlife> hello everyone
[17:05] <deskwizard> o/
[17:05] <Runferurlife> lots of ppl in here
[17:05] <Runferurlife> that is cool
[17:05] <Runferurlife> new to linux.. downloaded fresh install of MATE
[17:06] <Runferurlife> if it works well with this laptop I am going to create a server with some old hardware I have
[17:06] <ouroumov> Hi Runferurlife
[17:07] <Runferurlife> hello ouroumov
[17:07] <ouroumov> Runferurlife, just so you know, there's a lot of people connected to this channel indeed, but there's a lot less people actually in front of their computer.
[17:07] <Runferurlife> yes.. that will probably be me
[17:07] <ouroumov> ^^
[17:07] <Runferurlife> how long have you been a Linux user?
[17:07] <Runferurlife> you an expert?
[17:08] <ouroumov> I've been a Linux user for about 7 years, and I would say I'm an advanced user, but I wouldn't go so far as to call myself an "expert"
[17:09] <Runferurlife> do you know much about s?
[17:09] <Runferurlife> *STEAM installs on mate
[17:10] <ouroumov> No, I'm not a gamer, but you should be able to install that from the software boutique.
[17:10] <Runferurlife> I tried to install from the software boutique
[17:11] <Runferurlife> it opened and updated fine the first time until it was finished and then closed out
[17:11] <Runferurlife> I rebooted
[17:11] <Runferurlife> now when I try to open it
[17:11] <Runferurlife> it just opens for about a half a second and then closes
[17:11] <ouroumov> Hm
[17:12] <ouroumov> Did you update the boutique itself before installing steam?
[17:12] <Runferurlife> It was doing the same thing on a normal Ubuntu install but then read that it comes with MATE boutique so I thought it would run better on this
[17:12] <sixwheeledbeast> Steam is fine
[17:12] <Runferurlife> I did do a system update
[17:13] <Runferurlife> and updated the OS and software before any other installs
[17:13] <ouroumov> The boutique is updated through a third party repository, maintained by the Ubuntu MATE team
[17:13] <ouroumov> If it's up to date, it should read "set to retrieve the latest software listings"
[17:14] <ouroumov> (bottom pane, on top of the version number)
[17:14] <deskwizard> fine here too, dont recall if I installed with the ubuntu package from repository though
[17:15] <sixwheeledbeast> I believe I installed it fine through the boutique
[17:15] <ouroumov> What versions of Ubuntu MATE are you using? sixwheeledbeast, Runferurlife and deskwizard ?
[17:15] <Runferurlife> I am using 16.04 LTS
[17:15] <sixwheeledbeast> 17.04
[17:16] <deskwizard> 16.04 LTS as well
[17:16] <deskwizard> yeah I didnt use the package from repository, theres a steam package in my download folder
[17:17] <Runferurlife> There is something I didn't do
[17:17] <Runferurlife> and that was update my graphics card... but that shouldn't stop STEAM from booting up
[17:18] <sixwheeledbeast> Is there a Steam Icon on the panel?
[17:20] <sixwheeledbeast> Also check it's not updating in the background with top?
[17:25] <Runferurlife> checking
[17:26] <Runferurlife> no steam icon anywhere but the app on the desktop
[17:31] <Kyros> is there a way to configure which screen new windows appear on?


[04:08]  * ScottK < --- Merges done.
[06:24] <dholbach> good morning
[06:28] <geser> good morning
[06:29] <dholbach> hi geser


[15:29] <xnox> the toggle switch ON/OFF in the bluetooth and sync menus look very huge
[15:40] <snwh> xnox, agreed
[15:41] <xnox> mpt: have you seen the size of the on/off switch in the indicators?
[16:38] <mpt> xnox, yeah, it's a bit large, eh
[16:39] <xnox> it really should look up to radio button sizes ;-)
[16:39] <mpt> About that, yes
[16:39] <mpt> (though there aren't radio buttons in menus)
[16:40] <xnox> mpt: draw a sketch, post-date it, use it as precedent to encourage switch to become smaller =)
[16:41] <mpt> It's February 2013 and I'm still writing 2012 on all my cheques^Wwireframes
[16:41] <mpt> (not really)
[17:04] <Cimi> mpt, so?
[17:04] <mpt> Hey Cimi, xnox and I were discussing how switches inside menus look too large
[17:05] <mpt> e.g. the Bluetooth menu in Ringtail, and the networking menu in U4A
[17:06] <mpt> Cimi, so what do you think about having smaller switches only when they're inside menus?
[17:07] <mpt> *Roughly* analogous to how radio marks and checkmarks in menus are much lighter than radio buttons and checkboxes.
[17:07] <Cimi> mpt, I think you should ask matthieu who will tell you he is busy :)
[17:07] <Cimi> I am busy too
[17:07] <Cimi> but I agree