[00:16] <Azelphur> Anyone interested in trying out torchat too? It's a pidgin plugin :)
[00:16] <Azelphur> (or a standalone app)
[00:16] <Azelphur> and it's in apt, so you can just apt-get install torchat && torchat
[00:19] <popey> Azelphur: do you need tor setup though?
[00:19] <Azelphur> popey: yea, but it's all default, I think apt-get install torchat just does it all for you.
[00:19] <popey> ah
[00:19] <popey> ok, I'm in it
[00:20] <Azelphur> got your address?
[00:20] <popey> pm'ed
[00:37] <popey> Azelphur: does torchat show me offline now?
[00:37] <Azelphur> yes
[05:04] <ali1234> awesome... someone made a software dab receiver for my rtl-sdr
[05:04] <ali1234> and it actually works!
[05:23] <shauno> oh?
[05:33] <ali1234> http://www.sdr-j.tk/index.html
[05:40] <shauno> interesting .. I'll have to give that a shot in the morning
[05:41] <shauno> I'd been looking for ways to decode broadcast TV too.  because my little el-cheapo sdr can do everything but the function that's printed on it
[05:42] <shauno> not that I bought it for the function printed on it, but I got to thinking
[08:44] <Neoti_Desktop> hi people. am wondering how traffic CCTV is connected back  the central monitoring station. i would like to know if possible makes and /or models of equitment used, IE if they use GSM what device are they using, is it an IPSEC or GRE Tunnel back to the monitoring office etc...
[08:57] <MartijnVdS> Neoti_Desktop: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Information_Act_2000 ?
[08:58] <MartijnVdS> Neoti_Desktop: they probably use cables, so interference is much harder
[09:01] <isleofmandan> Morning. I don't suppose anyone here has the Dell XPS 13 DE with the 'new' AR9462 wifi card in and Ubuntu 13.04? Trying to decide if the hassle of upgrading from stock 12.04 will fix my wifi dropouts...
[09:02] <MartijnVdS> isleofmandan: there are AR9xxx fixes in 3.11, which is not yet finished, but will be in 13.10
[09:02] <Neoti_Desktop> im just intrested. as i have been asked to set up 2 camras at a remote location and all there is, is a 3G signal on vodafone, and was thinking of using some kind of 3G router??? connect the cams to it, use something like PPTP, GRE, or IPSEC to connect back to the remote location etc ????
[09:03] <isleofmandan> MartijnVdS: Thanks. I'll grin and bear 12.04 a bit longer then :/
[09:03] <MartijnVdS> Neoti_Desktop: 3G signals are easily blocked/overloaded to make the camera image unreliable. 3G is also expensive.
[09:03] <MartijnVdS> Neoti_Desktop: is there nothing visible within a few miles with better connectivity?
[09:03] <Neoti_Desktop> nope its all wooded else i would have used something like ubiquity devices... :(
[09:03] <MartijnVdS> Neoti_Desktop: because you can set up a (most likely 5GHz) private wifi network (with directional antennas, so not everyone can pick it up)
[09:04] <MartijnVdS> Neoti_Desktop: I use a setup like that on a wooded caravan park, works great
[09:04] <dwatkins> Neoti_Desktop: does it need to be viewed live, or can it be simply recorded locally and collected regularly?
[09:04] <MartijnVdS> all you need is a line of sight
[09:04] <Neoti_Desktop> they want to stream and record
[09:05] <MartijnVdS> I don't think 3G is ever going to be reliable enough
[09:06] <Neoti_Desktop> i have choosen the cams there the grandstream GXV3672_HD . i chose them become of the MJPEG stuff, and are compatibil with Zoneminder
[09:07] <MartijnVdS> Neoti_Desktop: http://www.ses-broadband.com/10334323/en :P
[09:08] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:08] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
[09:08] <MattJ100> Morning brobostigon
[09:08] <MartijnVdS> Neoti_Desktop: But, seriously: 3G might work, but you'll burn through megabytes and have possible reliability issues
[09:08] <brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS and MattJ100
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> Neoti_Desktop: a 5GHz line-of-sight wifi setup with directional antennas will probably be better
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> Neoti_Desktop: digging a trench even better (power has to get there too somehow, hmm.. powerline ethernet adapters?)
[09:13] <SuperMatt> morning all
[09:14] <MartijnVdS> \o SuperMatt
[09:32] <SuperMatt> hullo
[09:41] <brobostigon> ok, question, i just pushed some changes from my nexus7 yesterday to my github, now when on my normal machine and i try and git pull it complains, any ideas as to why ?
[09:41] <Neoti_Desktop> the remote site has solar panels and is running a 12v 2.5kw system
[09:42] <Neoti_Desktop> with batteries i might add...
[09:47] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: what's the error?
[09:51] <brobostigon> git pull
[09:51] <brobostigon> There is no tracking information for the current branch.
[09:51] <brobostigon> Please specify which branch you want to merge with.
[09:52] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:53] <brobostigon> git pull
[09:53] <brobostigon> Updating 8daa2c3..1fa173d
[09:53] <brobostigon> error: unable to unlink old 'BareSaabv2/BareSaabv2-due/BareSaabv2due/BareSaabv2due.ino' (Permission denied)
[09:54] <bigcalm> Tut
[09:54] <brobostigon> and it isnt old as it claims, i updated it about 10 mins ago.
[09:54] <MartijnVdS> ah! permission denied
[09:54] <MartijnVdS> that would explain why it fails :)
[09:55] <brobostigon> ok, how do i fix this?
[09:55] <MartijnVdS> did you chmod things?
[09:55] <brobostigon> no
[09:55] <MartijnVdS> what did you check out, did you do it on Ubuntu?
[09:56] <brobostigon> as i said, i made a few changes to that file on my nexus7 yesterday and submitted them, then this morning, i wanted those changes on my main machine, and it throws that wobbler.
[09:56] <MartijnVdS> so you run git on a n7?
[09:56] <brobostigon> i am using debian.
[09:56] <brobostigon> yes.
[09:56] <MartijnVdS> git runs on android now?
[09:57] <brobostigon> yes.
[09:57] <MartijnVdS> I know permissions on android can be strange sometimes.. but I'm not sure of the details
[09:57] <brobostigon> hmmm, ok. that might explain it then.
[09:57] <MartijnVdS> especially if you use multiple apps on one file
[09:58] <brobostigon> one single app, one one single file,
[10:00] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, is there a way to normalise it again? and then ditch the nexus7 to do changes.
[10:19] <popey> morning
[10:20] <bigcalm> Hola
[10:48] <dvrr> Hiiiiiiii
[10:49] <^2fC> hellloooo :-)
[10:52] <dvrr> How give  database connection in tomcat server for multipul  database instances
[10:53] <dvrr> MooDoo:helloooo
[13:09]  * penguin42 is in one of those 'perhaps I should change telco providers' mood evenly balanced with the 'it's working don't touch it'
[15:43] <MartijnVdS> http://haxit.blogspot.nl/2013/08/hacking-transcend-wifi-sd-cards.html
[15:48] <penguin42> nice; this is an SD card running Linux?
[15:48] <MartijnVdS> yeah, with an arm5 core in there
[15:48] <MartijnVdS> so you can do SD, wifi and ARM on something the size of an SD card now
[15:49] <moreati> there are cards linke that, which take a microsd card for the storage
[15:49] <moreati> http://www.pqigroup.com/prod_in.aspx?mnuid=1286&modid=138&prodid=426
[15:52] <penguin42> I'm tempted by one of those Trascend ones now - pity he hasn't posted the cpuinfo/free info
[15:57] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: you can probably ask him :)
[16:00] <bigcalm> moreati: good to see that you're still alive. The LUG misses you!
[16:01] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Transcend seem to have the code on: http://uk.transcend-info.com/Support/DLCenter/index.asp?#Detail
[16:02] <MartijnVdS> oh it's GPL of course, the busybox people would sue them otherwise ;)
[16:07] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Hey don't knock it, Transcend seem to have full kernel and busybox source there
[16:08] <MartijnVdS> does it contain everything needed to build valid replacement kernels/busyboxes?
[16:08] <MartijnVdS> like build scripts, etc.
[16:11] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: That I can't tell without trying it, seems to be a KA2000 chipset
[16:11] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: googling that leads to Ford 8-)
[16:11] <penguin42> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tokyohackerspace/D-675xo0Y_s
[16:12] <MartijnVdS> "Pop the back off the card and
[16:12] <MartijnVdS> there's a TTL level serial port."
[16:12] <MartijnVdS> WANT
[16:13] <MartijnVdS> oh they,re a bit on the expensive side
[16:13] <penguin42> yeh the transcends are about 40gbp - which is a bit pricey for the spec, but hey it is tiny
[16:15]  * popey has 13 issues of 2600 from 1999-2002.. pondering ebaying them.. not likely to get much am I?
[16:15] <MartijnVdS> from back when you were a l33t h4x0r?
[16:17] <mgdm> on that note, go to a YouTube video, and type '1337' (no quotes and not in the search box), and look at the comments
[16:17] <mgdm> (for those who've not heard that already)
[16:17] <MartijnVdS> or 1980
[16:18] <mgdm> hehe, nice
[16:20]  * penguin42 had some computer mags from late 70s that my dad had bought and I was clearing out, I was giving them to people in the office who were born in that month
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> heh
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> we have a few 1980s issues of computer magazines in the office
[16:20] <mgdm> if you find a Jan 1983 one... :-)
[16:20]  * popey rummages ebay to find other people selling similar
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> the ads are the greatest
[16:21] <popey> also, I am selling my last joggler
[16:21] <mgdm> i forgot abut my joggler, and found it the other day
[16:21] <mgdm> going to make it do Android shortly
[16:21] <mgdm> (don't suppose they run Ubuntu Touch, eh? :)
[16:21] <penguin42> mgdm: Let me guess, one of hte ones bought on the #50 deal from a couple of years ago?
[16:22] <mgdm> penguin42: indeed
[16:22] <mgdm> ~4 years ago, I think
[16:23] <penguin42> hehe yes
[16:23] <penguin42> I didn't buy one because I thought I'd probably do the same
[16:24] <mgdm> I got it, then moved to a different city
[16:24] <mgdm> or indeed, a city
[16:26] <popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281149901788?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
[16:26] <popey> *cough*
[16:26] <MartijnVdS> "1 person is viewing this item per hour"
[16:27] <popey> nice job if you can get it
[16:27] <popey> also selling a yubikey! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281149907420?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
[16:27] <MartijnVdS> pre-pwned? :)
[16:27] <popey> nope
[16:28] <popey> clean as a whistle, never inserted into anything
[16:28] <popey> missus
[16:28] <MartijnVdS> already have one (from $boss)
[16:28] <MartijnVdS> popey: but.. good idea
[16:28] <MartijnVdS> popey: I need to clean out my cupboard :)
[16:31] <popey> yeah, thats what triggered it, clearing out stuff
[16:34] <ali1234> i also need to get rid of a lot of junk
[16:34] <popey> i should get rid of my old laptops too
[16:35] <Azelphur> ali1234: my ASICs are in the UK :o
[16:35] <ali1234> from who did you buy them?
[16:35] <Azelphur> BFL, last june preorders.
[16:36] <Azelphur> 180GH/sec ;)
[16:41] <penguin42> any Virgin Media broadband users?
[16:41]  * penguin42 is starting to consider moving to them
[16:41] <mgdm> I'm on a VM connection just now, it's not mine though. The 'superhub' thing seems to drop the wifi for about 10 seconds every now and again
[16:41] <penguin42> the loss of a static-ip would be a pain, but my ADSL has dropped in speed a bit and I'll never get it
[16:41] <ali1234> on VM you practically have a static IP
[16:42] <ali1234> when i used them it didn't change in 2 years
[16:42] <ali1234> with cable, you get the speed they actually advertise, instead of 20-50%
[16:43] <ali1234> also "drops every 10 minutes" describes every wifi connection i have ever used
[16:43] <penguin42> ali1234: Yeh the speed is what attracts me; I'm getting about 7.5Mbps/950kbps on ADSL2 (was 10-11Mbps/1Mbps) - VM's 30Mbps tier is only about 20% more
[16:43] <shauno> "practically static" works well here - 28 day dhcp leases  lol
[16:44] <mgdm> my wifi at home (WRT54GS running OpenWRT) is solid as a rock
[16:44] <penguin42> yeh but practically static doesn't feel enough for making peepholes in my mailserver
[16:44]  * penguin42 isn't particularly worried about the wifi stability, I'm happy to use separate wifi boxes for that
[16:44] <shauno> it hasn't been an issue here .. if I'm disconnected for more than 28 days, I tend to know about
[16:45]  * penguin42 is in an annoying blackspot for BT infinity - just these two postcodes
[16:46] <ali1234> oh, and try to avoid the superhub
[16:46] <penguin42> ali1234: What's a superhub and what choices would I have?
[16:46] <ali1234> try to get the engineer to give you a standalone modem
[16:46] <ali1234> i don't know if they still do them
[16:46] <ali1234> the superhub is a huge piece of crap that does everything badly, like the bt superhub
[16:46] <ali1234> or homehub or whatever its called
[16:47]  * penguin42 used to be on cable ~10 years ago but switched to DSL when the company I worked for started giving it out and hadn't changed back, but 3x the speed is tempting
[16:50]  * penguin42 wonders if they'll be able to reuse the same cabling and if I'll have to wire it downstairs again
[17:11] <daftykins> phone line vs. coax? :)
[17:21] <penguin42> daftykins: No! I mean whether they can reuse the coax installation from 10 years ago when I previously had cable
[17:26] <daftykins> oh so you might go *back* to cable?
[17:26] <penguin42> nod
[17:26] <shauno> where we're going, we don't need line rental
[17:27] <MartijnVdS> Can you get cable internet without cable TV in the UK?
[17:27] <penguin42> daftykins: I can't get Infinity
[17:27] <MartijnVdS> because you can't here..
[17:27] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Yes
[17:27] <shauno> here, you can, but they pretend you can't.  you have to order it over the phone (so they can try to upsell) instead of online
[17:28] <MartijnVdS> shauno: yeah you can get "business" cable here, which is more expensive
[17:28] <MartijnVdS> Also, you still get analog TV channels even if you get a the digital package..
[17:28] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: For £22.50/month I can apparently get 30Mbps/2Mbps broadband only
[17:29] <daftykins> i always signed up for virgin media way back when without TV services with no issue
[17:29] <daftykins> back when things were simple with no rubbish routers :<
[17:29] <penguin42> ali1234: I don't see a way not to get the superhub
[17:30] <shauno> I've learnt to love this trash router UPC gave me.  you can confuse it into giving you multiple IP addresses :)
[17:30] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: 44/month @ 150mbit/s is the cheapest cable/internet-only for me, or 49 with a static IP but max 60 mbit/s
[17:31] <MartijnVdS> And the "Fibre is bad" propaganda on their website.. LIES
[17:31] <MartijnVdS> 100/100 > 150/4
[17:31] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: I can go upto 120mbps, that's 35/month
[17:31] <penguin42> what arguments do they have for fibre is bad?  It's GPON over there isn't it?
[17:32] <popey> hm. just dug out a digi box which we got when we first setup virgin cable, and plugged it in, getting complaints it's not registered
[17:32] <popey> engineer coming tuesday
[17:32] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: They say their network is just as future-proof, and "measured speed" is higher on their network
[17:32] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: which it isn't
[17:35] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Thing is I don't really like the cable company, but once something like a speed drops on the DSL there's very little chance of getting it to go faster again
[17:36] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: yeah, I know the problem - I waited for years to get fibre :)
[17:36] <MartijnVdS> Working for your ISP has a downside if you can only get DSL ;)
[17:41] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: If you want to meet the brewing brothers, they'll be in town this week: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=510144532401880&set=a.451423728273961.1073741825.417406958342305&type=1&theater :)
[17:44] <daftykins> :o
[17:45] <AlanBell> interesting!
[17:45] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Will he remember the meeting afterwards?
[17:45] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: if you take a picture with him, sure ;)
[17:46] <daftykins> this remote desktop software they just referred to on LAS seems interesting - http://guac-dev.org/
[17:47] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: what's the server like? or is it just a client?
[17:47] <daftykins> not tried yet
[17:47] <daftykins> read the page :D
[17:47] <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: are they doing all the days?
[17:48] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I don't know
[17:49] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: @vandestreekbier does though ;)
[17:49] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: OK so it sounds like it's another one using java to do the screen scraping
[18:19] <AlanBell> penguin42: nope
[18:19] <AlanBell> it is using rdp or vnc to screen scrape
[18:19] <AlanBell> then re-serving that to a browser client
[18:20] <AlanBell> so on the server you configure the VNC or RDP connections to initiate
[18:20] <AlanBell> looks quite cool, but not quite as general purpose as it first sounds
[18:24] <ali1234> VNC based? so in other words it's garbage?
[18:27] <penguin42> AlanBell: Are you sure - it talks about a java module that's served to the client
[18:27] <AlanBell> yeah, that is the viewer
[18:28] <AlanBell> erm, maybe it isn't
[18:28] <penguin42> AlanBell: ? I thought the point was the viewer was HTML5
[18:29] <AlanBell> javascript, not java
[18:29] <ali1234> http://guac-dev.org/doc/images/guac-arch.png
[18:29] <ali1234> ^ everything you need to know
[18:30] <penguin42> AlanBell: http://guac-dev.org/doc/gug/installing-guacamole.html#compiling-guacamole-client  ah I think the Java is a tomcat thingy on the server side that sides the client
[18:31] <AlanBell> yup
[18:31] <penguin42> ali1234: No
[18:31] <penguin42> ali1234: That doesn't really give enough detail
[18:32] <AlanBell> works for me :)
[18:32] <ali1234> what more detail do you need?
[18:32] <penguin42> ali1234: It's not clear to me whether you can share and view from each of the rdp/vnc/others and web interface
[18:33] <ali1234> what do you mean "each"
[18:34] <penguin42> ali1234: It's not clear from that diagram if it can use any of those protocols for sharing and/or any of those protocols for viewing
[18:34] <ali1234> it can't
[18:35] <penguin42> ali1234: In that case I stand by my case that that diagram doesn't contain enough detail
[18:35] <ali1234> what?
[18:35] <ali1234> i still have no idea what you are talking about
[18:35] <penguin42> shrug
[18:35] <ali1234> what is the difference between "sharing" and "viewing" by the way
[18:36] <penguin42> ali1234: whether I can make my desktop visible to others or whether I can see others desktops
[18:36] <ali1234> using VNC?
[18:36] <ali1234> yes, of course you can. that's what VNC does
[18:36] <penguin42> ali1234: Using guacamole in between
[18:37] <penguin42> I know I can with plain vnc, I don't know what guacamole is bringing to the mix from that diagram
[18:37] <ali1234> well suppose you have a VNC server (at the bottom)
[18:37] <ali1234> and a HTML5 browser (at the top)
[18:37] <ali1234> guacamole allows you to connect them together
[18:37] <penguin42> ali1234: Well you're supposing a lot!
[18:38] <ali1234> are you looking at the same diagram i am looking at?
[18:38] <penguin42> ali1234: guac-arch
[18:38] <penguin42> ali1234: You're right that is one reading of it
[18:39] <ali1234> see at the bottom where it says "RDP VNC Other" and underneath that it says "remote desktops"
[18:39] <ali1234> those are the remote desktops
[18:39] <penguin42> yeh
[18:39] <ali1234> at the top there is "HTML5 web browser"
[18:39]  * penguin42 sees that as well
[18:39] <ali1234> and then there's guacamole in the middle with arrows connecting them together
[18:39] <ali1234> i don't see what other ways you can interpret this
[18:40] <penguin42> ali1234: OK, does it let me use an RDP client to connect to the guacamole server to view a VNC servers output?
[18:40] <ali1234> no. see where the top arrow is labelled "guacamole protocol" not "RDP protocol"
[18:40] <penguin42> ali1234: Well sure but that's the arrow connected to the web browser, it doesn't tell you whether you can connect other viewers on the ports on the bottom (they are two way arrows)
[18:41] <ali1234> well the diagram also doesn't contain any dinosaurs
[18:41] <ali1234> but i am pretty sure dinosaurs are not involved
[18:41] <penguin42> shrug
[18:41] <ali1234> yes, you can connect other viewers to the stuff on the bottom. you can connect a vnc client to the vnc server for example
[18:41] <penguin42> ali1234: It seems a bit of a dumb design if it's got that 1 way architecture
[18:42] <ali1234> the arrows are two way because the data goes in both directions
[18:42] <ali1234> display pixels go one way, user input goes the other way
[18:43]  * penguin42 would have thought it would make more sense to make the viewer side cope with multiple protocols as well then you could let any talk to any
[18:43] <ali1234> what would be the point?
[18:43] <ali1234> the entire point of it is that you don't need any client at all
[18:44] <ali1234> of course it's not really any different to the old vnc system that served up a java client on a http server
[18:45] <ali1234> except this time it is written in javascript and most of the logic is server side
[18:46] <penguin42> ali1234: yeh you're right not having any client is nice, it does need gluing together to be more what I expect from the type of sharing systems people use for conferencing though - where you can hand off from one user to another
[18:46] <ali1234> i don't understand what conferencing has to do with it?
[18:47] <penguin42> ali1234: I've used systems for teleconfering where people can share their desktop to do a presentation, and they're normally a centralised server system for that
[18:48] <penguin42> teleconferencing
[18:48] <ali1234> so under this model everyone would just open their browser and go to the server
[18:48] <ali1234> and then they would see your desktop
[18:48] <penguin42> ali1234: Not quite
[18:48] <ali1234> yes, that's literally all they would have to do
[18:49] <penguin42> ali1234: In the nicest systems you can hand off so that you can switch from viewing one presenters desktop to the next - so the interface people see isn't just necessarily a viewers interface
[18:49] <ali1234> your computer is running VNC or RDP. guacd connects to it, then broadcasts the display to each HTML5 client
[18:49] <ali1234> so all that is required to support that is a panel that lets you change what RDP server guacd connects to
[18:49] <ali1234> which it probably already has
[18:50] <penguin42> it seems very broken way to do it
[18:50] <penguin42> making it have to connect into the client like that just won't work for most across firewalls/nating - you'd think you'd want the client to be able to proxy that
[18:50] <ali1234> it doesn't connect in to the client
[18:51] <ali1234> it's a web server
[18:51] <ali1234> the client connects to it
[18:51] <penguin42>  'ali1234: your computer is running VNC or RDP. guacd connects to it,'
[18:51] <ali1234> yes
[18:51] <penguin42> ali1234: That is what I'm saying is broken
[18:51] <ali1234> your computer is running VNC server, exporting it's remote desktop
[18:51] <ali1234> guacd connects to the VNC server as a VNC client and reads the display
[18:51] <penguin42> yeh, that's broken
[18:51] <ali1234> then converts it to a stream of javascript nonsense
[18:52] <ali1234> then the browser connects to the web server and reads that, and displays it
[18:52] <penguin42> yes yes, that's broken
[18:52] <ali1234> perhaps, but that is the what they set out to create
[18:53] <ali1234> it doesn't have any more firewall issues than just using VNC does
[18:53] <penguin42> ali1234: And hence doesn't really solve any problems
[18:53] <ali1234> i agree
[18:54] <ali1234> like i said, it's not any different to the old VNC java client, except that now it is written in HTML5
[18:54] <penguin42> ali1234: Now if the JS client they served to you had a way to tunnel the VNC/RDP/whatever back then it's almost useful
[18:54] <ali1234> tunnel it back to where?
[18:54] <penguin42> ali1234: Tunnel it from your vncserver to the guacd so that the guacd didn't have to connect in via your firewall
[18:56] <penguin42> ali1234: Then it would let arbitrary users of different OSs share screens with each other whatever firewall/NATing they had
[18:56] <ali1234> well firstly guacd doesn't... VNC can be set up so that the server connects out
[18:56] <penguin42> really? I've never seen VNC server setup for that
[18:56] <ali1234> so what you want is an entire remote desktop client and server written entirely in HTML5?
[18:57] <penguin42> ali1234: Well yes it would be ideal if you could have the destop server delivered to you via HTML as well; but I'm happy if it just proxied from an existing local vncserver or rdpserver
[18:58] <ali1234> or i suppose really what you want is a way to set up a TCP tunnel between two web browsers, with a connection service that is accessed using HTML5
[18:58] <penguin42> ali1234: I want to be able to go to a website and share my desktop with an arbitrary selection of [verifiiable] people
[18:58] <ali1234> that would be a pretty neat general purpose thing to have
[18:59] <penguin42> ali1234: can js listen on a local socket?
[18:59] <ali1234> i think it can with HTML5
[18:59] <ali1234> websocket?
[18:59] <ali1234> maybe it can only connect out
[18:59] <penguin42> I'd assume it can make a localhost connection - with suitable security - so I guess it could try connecting to your local vncserver although I'd hope that browsers generally stop it
[19:01] <ali1234> basically what you want is for guacd to also be written in HTML5
[19:01] <ali1234> but it is not
[19:02] <penguin42> ali1234: Not necessarily - I'm happy for it to be a centralised thing; but I want the way to connect to it to go through my browser
[19:02] <ali1234> right
[19:02] <ali1234> it is a proxy
[19:02] <penguin42> yeh
[19:02] <ali1234> it connects to the VNC server using guacd
[19:02] <ali1234> it connects to your browser using http
[19:02] <ali1234> (nominally)
[19:02] <ali1234> you want it to do both using http
[19:03] <penguin42> yep
[19:03] <ali1234> well, maybe one day
[19:03] <ali1234> websocket isn't suitable for this
[19:03] <ali1234> and web browsers are obviously really paranoid about what stuff they make available
[19:04] <penguin42> ali1234: I'm not desperate to use VNC server, but it does solve a problem, in that being able to use vncserver, rdp whatever means you can find a desktop sharing thing that already works
[19:06] <ali1234> that's not the problem they are trying to solve
[19:06] <ali1234> they are trying to solve the problem where you need to install a VNC client to access your computer
[19:07] <ali1234> where as with this you only need a HTML5 browser
[19:07] <penguin42> ali1234: But as you said given the old vncviewers that worked in browsers I'm not sure what they've really gained
[19:07] <ali1234> well the old VNC java client is pretty rubbish
[19:07] <penguin42> I guess being able to remote access the rdp as well is nice
[19:07] <ali1234> and of course it needs java
[19:08] <ali1234> yeah, RDP is much much better than VNC
[19:08] <ali1234> VNC is horrible anyway
[19:08] <penguin42> nod
[19:08] <penguin42> ali1234: I've never seen a linux rdp server though
[19:08] <ali1234> it's called X11
[19:08] <silner> Aren't they trying to avoid Oracle Java?
[19:09] <penguin42> ali1234: Well no, I really mean rdp
[19:09] <penguin42> ali1234: And something like spice protocol I guess would be to add to the list
[19:09] <ali1234> what does RDP do that X11 does not?
[19:09] <ali1234> i suppose reconnecting/multiple viewers
[19:10] <penguin42> ali1234: ANd file transfer, access to remote printers/etc
[19:10] <hamitron> does it do basic Direct3d now too?
[19:10] <ali1234> so if you RDP into a server and print a file, it comes out your local printer?
[19:11] <ali1234> that's pretty cool
[19:11] <penguin42> ali1234: Yes it can do that, it can also pass samba filesharing across the connection
[19:11] <ali1234> i would never have even guessed that would be available
[19:11] <penguin42> ali1234: So you can load from your local storage into the thing you're remotely using
[19:13] <ali1234> yeah i bet guac can't do any of that
[19:14] <penguin42> ali1234: Nod
[19:14] <ali1234> the idea though, i suspect, is to serve up some web desktop eventually, and do away with VNC, RDP etc
[19:15] <penguin42> yeh
[21:04] <malicoy> I'm trying to install ubuntu on my new computer but i keep getting a "Missing operating system" error when I boot. Help!?
[21:08] <ali1234> malicoy: start at the beginning and tell us what you did
[21:12] <malicoy> I downloaded ubuntu from their website then used unetbootin to put the OS onto my 1 terabyte external drive from my mac computer. i then plug the external drive into my new computer and boot from the usb and get the error.
[21:14] <ali1234> hmm ok
[21:15] <ali1234> what type of computer is the new computer?
[21:15] <ali1234> does it have windows or another OS pre-installed or is it totally blank?
[21:15] <malicoy> Its is a custom computer with no OS
[21:16] <ali1234> ok. what motherboard? and is it in UEFI or BIOS mode?
[21:17] <ali1234> i kind of suspect you've used the wrong install disc, htere's one for each
[21:18] <malicoy> The mother board is an ASRock 960GM-VGS3 FX
[21:18] <malicoy> BIOS mode
[21:19] <ali1234> if you downloaded the image with a mac it may have redirected you to download the UEFI version, because macs use that. but i'm not sure
[21:20] <ali1234> i don't know if unetbootin even supports UEFI to be honest
[21:20] <ali1234> precisely which ISO did you download?
[21:21] <shauno> did you format the disk using the mac, or was it already formatted?
[21:22] <malicoy> ubuntu from http://www.ubuntu.com/
[21:22] <shauno> worth being aware the mac will default to partitioning with non-hybrid gpt, so bios won't see a partition map
[21:23] <ali1234> there is an easier way to make a USB boot disc, if you don't mind wiping the whole USB disc, or if you have a spare flash drive >1GB
[21:23] <malicoy> i formatted it on the mac to fat32
[21:23] <ali1234> just dd the iso directly to the raw device
[21:23] <malicoy> dd?
[21:23] <ali1234> yes. just a raw copy
[21:23] <malicoy> what is dd?
[21:23] <ali1234> i think macs have dd right?
[21:24] <dwatkins> yeah, they do
[21:24] <ali1234> it's a shell command
[21:24] <dwatkins> you can even get a progress bar with 'pv'
[21:24] <shauno> that's where I went wrong doing the same; I had the partition formatted fat32, but the partition map itself as gpt so my PC couldn't see it
[21:24] <dwatkins> ...although that probably requires homebrew, so ignore me
[21:25] <ali1234> seems like shauno has the answer anyway ^
[21:26] <malicoy> shauno: how did you solve it?
[21:26] <shauno> if you format it on the mac, make sure to go into the options button that lets you pick; http://cl.ly/image/201y222h2X2h
[21:27] <malicoy> i think i can do that
[21:28] <shauno> I don't know if it's your problem, but the mac defaults to making gpt without mbr, which pc-bios won't like  (most systems try to do both gpt & mbr to avoid this)
[21:29] <malicoy> my disk utility doesnt have those options
[21:30] <shauno> it should if the mac is intel (the last 8 years or so)
[21:32] <dwatkins> wouldn't it be simpler to use unetbootin for the Mac, or am I missing something?
[21:32] <shauno> this is how I get to those options: http://cl.ly/image/270Y1r2l2R2Q
[21:32] <shauno> if it says 'master boot record' at the bottom like that example, then I'm totally wrong and you can ignore me :)
[21:32] <malicoy> yeah it does....
[21:33] <shauno> then I'll shut up  (just one I've tripped over trying to do exactly what you're doing)
[21:33] <malicoy> i did use unetbootin, i'm still getting the error
[21:40] <directhex> unetbootin doesn't work with uefi at all
[21:41] <directhex> if you usef unetbootin, don't expect gpt and efi to work
[21:43] <dwatkins> I tried this procedure, and it worked on one of my Macs but not on another: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFIBooting
[21:44] <ali1234> the goal isn't to boot on the mac though
[21:44] <ali1234> it is to boot on a BIOS motherboard
[21:44] <dwatkins> ah ok
[21:52] <ali1234> i'm kind of half tempted to install windows on a spare computer so i can play some gaemz
[21:52] <dwatkins> Half-life 2, Portal and Left4Dead 2 will run on Ubuntu ;)
[21:52] <ali1234> yeah but i hate FPS games
[21:53] <dwatkins> What sort of games do you like, ali1234?
[21:53] <ali1234> i like sand box games, empire building, and puzzle-adventure games like zelda
[21:54] <ali1234> i want to play saints row 3 and darksiders that i got from humble bundle a while ago
[21:54] <dwatkins> I like the 3D GTA games for their sandbox nature.
[21:55] <ali1234> i also want to try out arma free, cos even though it's a FPS, it goes for total realism, which means it avoids most of the things i don't like about FPS games
[21:55] <dwatkins> 0 AD looks neat.
[21:56] <dwatkins> http://play0ad.com/ that is
[21:57] <ali1234> oh also i just got this game called "men of war" which is like a RTS but with more tactics and less "who can micromanage their factories the best"
[21:57] <dwatkins> My absolute favourite game right now is Homeworld 2, for the fact it's a strategy game in 3D.
[21:57] <ali1234> actually it has no factories at all apparently
[21:58] <ali1234> the thing that puts me off most games is when it comes down to knowing the cheesy tactics
[21:58] <ali1234> i don't blame the players for this, i blame the game designers
[23:05] <andylockran> Wow - saucy and xMir are both running incredibly well on my acer revo
[23:06] <andylockran> happy days
[23:13] <daftykins> ye olde ion1 system?
[23:15] <andylockran> yep - does that mean that xmir is just falling back to standard X
[23:18] <daftykins> i guess you'd have a Xorg.0.log if so?


[10:37] <EX-Ploit>
[16:00] <pitti> o/
[16:00] <barry> \o
[16:00] <cyphermox> o/
[16:00] <sil2100> \o
[16:01] <caribou> o/
[16:01] <cyphermox> don't break our choreography! ;)
[16:01] <ogra_> the weekly foundations yoga club !
[16:01] <pitti> cyphermox: argh, you broke the pattern
[16:01]  * pitti didn't dare to start
[16:01] <pitti> #startmeeting
[16:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 10 16:01:34 2016 UTC.  The chair is pitti. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:01] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[16:01] <cyphermox> no i didn't, just line noise
[16:01] <pitti> shuf: cyphermox chiluk barry sil2100 caribou robru pitti bdmurray tdaitx doko infinity xnox slangasek
[16:02] <xnox> ahhh meeting.
[16:02] <cyphermox> is that the result?
[16:02] <pitti> yep
[16:02] <cyphermox> oh!
[16:02] <sil2100> oooh, I see pitti is intruoducing changes to the shuf process
[16:02] <pitti> I was just optimizing away one line..
[16:02] <cyphermox> pitti: you're the one doing things all different, usually slangasek starts by echoing commands!
[16:02] <cyphermox> MIR:
[16:02] <cyphermox> - reviewing python-csscompressor (bug LP: #1554543)
[16:02] <cyphermox> - reviewing python-rcssmin (bug LP: #1554543)
[16:02] <cyphermox> - reviewing python-rjsmin (bug LP: #1554543)
[16:03] <cyphermox> xenial:
[16:03] <cyphermox> - NetworkManager update to 1.2 - packaging and testing
[16:03] <cyphermox> - debugging upgrade crash w/ davmor2
[16:03] <cyphermox> - grub2 efi dkms upgrade path
[16:03] <cyphermox>  - investigating upgrade bug 1553870 "True" entries in sources (bug LP: #1553870)
[16:03] <cyphermox>   - fixed apt-clone parameters
[16:03] <cyphermox> - merging network-manager-applet with Debian 1.1.91
[16:03] <cyphermox> - network-manager-applet appindicator update
[16:03] <cyphermox> - partman-auto bump /boot size to 512M (bug LP: #1465050)
[16:03] <cyphermox>  - refreshing/updating nm-applet patches
[16:03] <cyphermox> - testing grub2 dkms mokutil code
[16:03] <cyphermox> ±other stuff:
[16:03] <cyphermox>  - discuss ubiquity future features w/ seb
[16:03] <cyphermox> - investigating os-prober warnings (bug LP: #1553181)
[16:03] <cyphermox> - packaging tpm2-tools & tpm2-tss
[16:03] <cyphermox> - testing WPA-Enterprise w/ NM 1.2-beta2
[16:03] <cyphermox>  - upstreaming debootstrap inrelease support
[16:03] <cyphermox> - upstreaming partman-iscsi/open-iscsi initiatorName fixes
[16:03] <cyphermox> (⚜done ✅)
[16:04] <barry> chiluk: ?
[16:04] <chiluk> ah sorry guys.
[16:05] <pitti> chiluk: want to go later?
[16:05] <pitti> (just pass the baton to barry)
[16:05] <chiluk> still got an upload for bug 1535349 ... still waiting for SRU approval.  Perhaps cyphermox will be able to look at that.
[16:05] <cyphermox> chiluk: looking at it right now
[16:05] <chiluk> aside from that, I will be working other things for the next month or so..
[16:06] <chiluk> I'll jump in when I have something to contribute foundationsy..
[16:06] <chiluk> -done-
[16:06] <barry> LP: #1552868; LP: #1554547
[16:06] <barry> python-pip 8.0.3-3, 8.1.0-1, 8.1.0-2
[16:06] <barry> python-virtualenv 14.0.5+ds-5, 14.0.5+ds-6, 15.0.0+ds-1, 15.0.0+ds-2
[16:06] <barry> python-colorama 0.3.7-1
[16:06] <barry> pycurl 7.43.0-1
[16:06] <barry> patches submitted for python3.5 -m venv (awaiting doko's return)
[16:06] <barry> review https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/germinate/+git/germinate/+merge/285180
[16:06] <barry> system-image 3.1 boarded the train
[16:06] <pitti> barry: py3-smbc wants to go to universe now, is that ok?
[16:06] <barry> error tracker sprint prep
[16:06] <barry> --done--
[16:07] <sil2100> o/
[16:07] <sil2100> - Crazy week: sickness, new apartment, ISP switches, unboxing stuff
[16:07] <sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
[16:07] <sil2100> - RTM Status meetings
[16:07] <sil2100> - Manta device deprecation:
[16:07] <sil2100>   * Removed manta from our cdimage and livecd-rootfs build scripts
[16:07] <sil2100>   * Requested the removal of linux-manta (anyone objecting please comment on LP: #1554145)
[16:07] <sil2100>   * Informed ubports about the removal plans
[16:07] <sil2100> - Clicks for unreleased frameworks
[16:07] <sil2100>   * Meetings about potential solutions, look into a staging store for rc-proposed
[16:07] <barry> pitti: interesting.  let's talk after lightnings
[16:07] <sil2100>   * Implementing temporary workaround in click-sync, allowing manual click locking
[16:07] <sil2100>   * Look into how hard it would be to slightly snappify clicks to use channels in store
[16:07] <sil2100> - Fixing devel-proposed touch builds
[16:07] <sil2100> - Importing re-spins of OTA-9.5 for frieza
[16:07] <sil2100> - More system-image work on turbo enablement
[16:07] <sil2100> - Getting back to debugging the appmenu-qt5 bug with no-keyboard-shortcuts
[16:07] <sil2100> - Testing and poking on the touch emulator fixes
[16:07] <sil2100> (done)
[16:07] <caribou> Bugfix :
[16:07] <caribou>  - Juniper's contrail kernel panic
[16:07] <caribou>    Need to forward to Juniper for further analysis
[16:07] <caribou>  - mstflint4 package for Trusty/Wily
[16:07] <caribou>    Reviewed by infinity. New packages are good to go
[16:07] <caribou>    Got a few final question for infinity before uploading xenial's mstflint
[16:08] <caribou>  Development work:
[16:08] <caribou>  - crash fails on kernel after 4.4
[16:08] <caribou>    Uploaded new crash (LP: #1555244)
[16:08] <caribou>  - Kernel crash dump Enablement on s390x (LP: #1555159)
[16:08] <caribou>    First test successful. Need to enable crashkernel= or
[16:08] <caribou>    define it systematically
[16:08] <caribou>  - Few sponsored uploads
[16:08] <caribou>  A colleague is suggesting to add apport support to containers : LP: #1555698)
[16:08] <caribou> pitti: you might want to comment on ^^
[16:08] <caribou> ☑ Done
[16:08] <pitti> caribou: done
[16:08] <pitti> caribou: (as of two weeks ago)
[16:08] <robru> lp:bileto ephemeral ppas / jenkins replacement marches on
[16:08] <robru> * started using asyncio coroutines to parallelize source package merges / builds (sped up one test silo build from 66 minutes to 6 minutes)
[16:08] <robru> * got merge-based builds working
[16:08] <robru> * hooked up existing build / upload / diff / swift logic into new architecture
[16:08] <robru> * switched gunicorn3 from synchronous workers to gevent async workers for streaming HTTP requests
[16:08] <robru> * got manual sources working in new architecture
[16:08] <robru> * got dual silos working in new architecture
[16:08] <robru> * implemented cache for generated html files.
[16:08] <robru> (done)
[16:09] <caribou> pitti: got a bug number for this so I can mark this one as dup ?
[16:09] <pitti> caribou: I'll follow up after meeting
[16:09] <caribou> pitti: k
[16:09] <sil2100> robru: \o/
[16:09] <pitti> autopkgtest:
[16:09] <pitti>  - Add support for nested QEMU to adt-virt-aqmu (export outer base image into inner QEMU)
[16:09] <pitti>  - Add additional CPU information (#1552129)
[16:09] <pitti>  - Adjust nova setup script to python-novaclient v2 API to work on xenial (#1552730)
[16:09] <pitti>  - Correctly ignore build profiles when running on trusty
[16:09] <pitti>  - Discuss more efficient AppArmor handling with click tests with Omer (#1553797)
[16:09] <pitti>  - Fix race condition in QEMU runner's connectivity test
[16:09] <pitti>  - Keep $ADTTMP in debug shells (#814115)
[16:09] <pitti>  - Some small improvements to adt-virt-lxc
[16:09] <pitti> distro:
[16:09] <pitti>  - lxc: Investigate another lxc-attach regression (#1553097)
[16:09] <pitti>  - merges: init-system-helpers, util-linux
[16:09] <pitti>  - systemd: Fix race conditions in boot-and-services test
[16:09] <pitti>  - Remove obsolete X.org drivers including fglrx, adjust ubuntu-drivers-common tests
[16:09] <pitti>  - Some wxwidgets2.8 and gstreamer0.10 rdepends cleanup
[16:10] <pitti>  - spent half a day on process-removals, cleaning (some)/weeping over (way too much) Ubuntu specific cruft
[16:10] <pitti> misc:
[16:10] <pitti>  - Discussions/meetings about Juju 1 vs. 2 and mongodb support/packaging in xenial
[16:10] <pitti>  - 2 days sick :/ (but mostly well again)
[16:10] <pitti> (done)
[16:10] <bdmurray> worked with webops regarding migration of error tracker to PS4.5
[16:10] <bdmurray> resolved bug with retracer.py handling of the failed queue
[16:10] <bdmurray> mojo spec work (exiting if no cassandra username or password)
[16:10] <bdmurray> discussion with stub regarding dse database
[16:10] <bdmurray> test rebuild of bucket counters on real cassandra database
[16:10] <bdmurray> error tracker sprint preparations
[16:10] <bdmurray> research into / fixed LP: #1551929 (alt CD upgrade)
[16:10] <bdmurray> discussion with mvo re: LP: #1550741
[16:10] <bdmurray> created a vm for running cassandra queries
[16:10] <bdmurray> foundations bug triage
[16:10] <bdmurray> ✔ done
[16:10] <tdaitx> * TCK 7:
[16:10] <tdaitx>   - Cleaned up a few runtime errors/failures (agent still failing though)
[16:10] <tdaitx>   - Running interactive tests
[16:10] <tdaitx> * TCK 8:
[16:10] <tdaitx>   - Starting up tests for OpenJDK 8 in Xenial
[16:10] <tdaitx> (done)
[16:11] <tdaitx> xnox: doko and infinity are out, go ahead
[16:12] <xnox> ack.
[16:12] <xnox> * Uploads: genwqe (new), libica (point release), zfcp-hbaapi(new), fixes - console-setup for s390x - silence bogus things, sosreport enable s390x plugin, cloud-utils SRU s390x arch, a bunch of installer merges for bugfixes (sysconfig, s390-dasd, s390-netdevice, s390-tools)
[16:12] <xnox> * zfcp-hbaapi -> stuck in binary new. AA please review binary new, maybe stgraber?
[16:12] <xnox> * addressed https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/germinate/+git/germinate/+merge/285180, should be merged? cjwatson?
[16:12] <xnox> * got juju2 fix merged for s390x, still fighting with out of memory with juju2
[16:12] <xnox> * deploying services on s390x, ported percona-galera-3 on s390x (trivial arch fix)
[16:12] <xnox> * s390x autopkgtest stats: 3088/2648 pass (84.65%)
[16:12] <xnox> * s390x product bugs: 44 done + 9 incomplete/invalid out of 78 total
[16:12] <xnox> * preparing for final beta milestone.
[16:12] <xnox> ..
[16:13] <pitti> thanks
[16:13] <pitti> #topic AOB
[16:13] <pitti> sil2100: OOI, how well does the emulator run these days?
[16:14] <pitti> sil2100: it sometimes worked very well, then it had been broken for months due to some broken -gles dependency, etc.
[16:14] <pitti> sil2100: can we at some point make this a primary target for train MPs, to avoid breaking it over and over?
[16:15] <pitti> sil2100: (you mentioned some emulator fixes in your report)
[16:15] <pitti> any other questions, just go
[16:15] <sil2100> pitti: right now it works hm, better, still problematic but at least you can do touch events and open apps
[16:15] <sil2100> pitti: since it was busted completely as the input events were off for mouse, so you couldn't go pass the wizard
[16:16] <bdmurray> pitti: when we were migrating to PS4.5 I noticed some arm64 crashes waiting to retrace.  Would you expect retracing of them to work?
[16:16] <pitti> bdmurray: I never tried so far; the LP retracers don't have an arm64 confnig
[16:16] <sil2100> pitti: we want to start putting more pressure on it once again, but you know how it is, we'd have to put a lot serious work to get it into stable enough state to make it a primary target for MPs
[16:16] <sil2100> And there's so many other devices we need to concentrate on
[16:16] <sil2100> Not enough manpower sadly
[16:16] <pitti> bdmurray: we can add one and see how far it goes, but no idea if that will just create nonsense or something useful
[16:17] <pitti> sil2100: ah; this still appears to be a major hindrance for doing devel work
[16:17]  * pitti is seriously missing dual-boot :(
[16:18] <bdmurray> pitti: Okay, I'll rescue the cores from swift so we can test them out.
[16:18] <sil2100> Yeah, right now the recommended answers for devs is: buy a phone
[16:18] <sil2100> ;p
[16:18] <sil2100> Which is a bit sad
[16:19] <pitti> caribou: followed up to bug 1555698
[16:19] <caribou> pitti: thanks!
[16:20] <pitti> any other topics/
[16:20] <pitti> ?
[16:20] <pitti> bdmurray: looking forward to the sprint next week (this time healthy, I hope :) )
[16:20] <barry> indeed :)
[16:20] <bdmurray> I don't think we can delay any more since the boss man is coming back.
[16:21] <pitti> PHEAR
[16:21] <pitti> ok, thanks everyone!
[16:21] <pitti> #endmeeting
[16:21] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 10 16:21:41 2016 UTC.
[16:21] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-03-10-16.01.moin.txt
[16:22] <barry> pitti: thanks!
[16:22] <caribou> pitti: thanks!
[16:22] <robru> pitti: oops I'm too late, but i will soon be working on how the train handles gles
[16:23] <robru> pitti: with a focus on increasing ease of automation / keeping gles in sync


[01:00] <ali1234> Azelphur: the real question is why are you still using software centre?
[01:00] <Azelphur> ali1234: I'm not, but other new users are :P
[01:00] <ali1234> oh, them.
[09:12] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[13:26] <bashrc> looks like popey is on pump.io
[13:37] <directhex> pope.io
[13:38] <brobostigon> :)
[14:10] <mapps> urgh
[14:10] <mapps> mugged it again
[14:32] <bashrc> I appear to have got my server into a condition of stability by stopping the oom-killer from killing mysql
[14:46] <directhex> om nom nom oom
[14:47] <directhex> the linux oom killer is unfit for purpose
[14:50] <ali1234> anyone got the link to that FAQ about how to write alsa applications properly so they work with pulseaudio?
[14:54] <ali1234> it was like "alsa best-practices" or something
[14:56] <SuperEngineer> Dear work's laptop, I do recall I told you what would happen if your Outlook in box botred me to tears... I gave you fair warning... I warn you that I knew how to "delete all"...  I did warn you that I Steam installed on my own pooter... ;)
[14:57] <SuperEngineer> *bored
[14:58]  * SuperEngineer kills work's laptop
[14:58] <SuperEngineer> [and laughs manically - movie style]
[15:19] <bashrc> directhex: the oom-killer is just unintelligent and can't tell critical applications from non-critical ones
[15:20] <directhex> bashrc, it also can't complete a kill op before getting invoked again, on a machine with a lot of ram, since it doesn't scale
[15:21] <bashrc> with a lot of ram you can set swapiness to zero, but I'm only on a Beaglebone with limited system resources
[15:24] <bashrc> the next kernel release for the Beaglebone should also include zram, which may help
[15:31] <directhex> RamDoubler(tm) for Linux(tm)!
[18:24] <andylockran> hey guys
[18:25] <andylockran> any idea how to identify a process pinging tonnes of udp connections?
[18:25] <andylockran> 19:24:40.561770 IP <IP_ADDRESS>.49838 > <IP_ADDRESS>.10320: UDP, length 172
[18:31] <penguin42> that can be tricky
[18:33] <andylockran> yeah, proving to be
[18:33] <andylockran> have spent a few hours on it so far
[18:34] <penguin42> have you tried looking at the contents of the packets to see if they suggest anything?
[18:34] <penguin42> hmm I wonder if you can do it with perf's trace
[18:35] <andylockran> the packets contents don't give me any clues
[18:35] <penguin42> andylockran: try perf trace -a -e sendmsg
[18:35] <andylockran> though I can tell it looks like it's being used as a rtp relay
[18:36] <penguin42> says he guessing it's using sendmsg to send the packets
[18:40] <andylockran> hmm, kinda buging me now
[18:40] <penguin42> andylockran: Try that perf command - it should show every process using the sendmsg syscall
[18:42] <andylockran> merlin:/# perf
[18:42] <andylockran> /usr/bin/perf: line 24: exec: perf_2.6.32: not found
[18:42] <andylockran> E: linux-tools-2.6.32 is not installed.
[18:42] <penguin42> if you tab complete on perf_ do you have anything?
[18:42] <penguin42> hmm bit old, might not have trace
[18:46] <penguin42> andylockran: The other way that might work is creating an iptalbes rule to block them - not sure if that would show the process in the log?
[18:50] <andylockran> Ok - blocking the process via ip seems to have blocked the data
[18:50] <andylockran> but the process is still running
[18:51] <penguin42> but are you generating logs showing it?
[18:52] <andylockran> all I've got at the moment is the tcpdump
[18:53] <penguin42> andylockran: I mean make the iptables log the rejects - I can't remember what info you get in the logs when you do that
[18:53] <andylockran> ooh, ok
[18:55] <andylockran> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/4dd0e8da0d82cfa8e63a
[18:55] <penguin42> andylockran: ah, external syslogging?
[18:56] <penguin42> what's pid 1881 then?
[18:56] <andylockran> named
[18:57] <penguin42> so is that saying that named is sending zillions of moans to rsyslog for some reason?
[18:57] <andylockran> still going strong with those proceses stoped
[18:58] <penguin42> did you check if you had perf_something installed ?
[18:59] <andylockran> I've got perf_3.2
[18:59] <andylockran> perf: 'trace' is not a perf-command. See 'perf --help'.
[19:00] <penguin42> yeh probably too new a feature
[19:02] <penguin42> thing is if they were going to rsyslog I'd have expected some text in the packet - how are you capturing them with tcpdump?
[19:02] <andylockran> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/793876c3889facf530c3
[19:03] <penguin42> yeh what tcpdump command are you using?
[19:03] <shauno> curious, do you have then coming inbound too?
[19:03] <andylockran> I used wireshark
[19:03] <MartijnVdS> ShireWark
[19:03] <andylockran> inbound, nthing.
[19:04] <penguin42> andylockran: So with your wireshark, what's the contents of those packets - 200 bytes of something
[19:04] <andylockran> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/a1c43dbb4ab4bea1f808
[19:05] <penguin42> hmm, 200 bytes of not much
[19:05] <andylockran> 22:43:39.533789 IP (tos 0x80, ttl 56, id 30442, offset 0, flags [DF], proto TCP (6), length 100)
[19:05] <andylockran>     <IP_ADDRESS>.57889 > <IP_ADDRESS>.22: Flags [P.], cksum 0x67c6 (correct), seq 192:240, ack 196913, win 8192, options [nop,nop,TS val 512981144 ecr 183589], length 48
[19:06] <andylockran> there are loads - lots of them each second
[19:07] <penguin42> andylockran: You could trace strace -p on every process one at a time until you find the victim
[19:07] <penguin42> andylockran: is something showing up in top as using cpu - if it's shifting that much you'd think it would be
[19:08] <shauno> that last one I'd expect to see loads of
[19:08] <andylockran> yeah - nothing is showing load
[19:10] <penguin42> if you just run perf top for a few seconds what's it showing?
[19:10] <shauno> loads and loads.  it's your ssh connection.  so as you try to list the packets, it's creating more packets, so it lists more packets ..
[19:11] <penguin42> shauno: Oh yeh, that's not the UDP packets he was previously complaining of though
[19:11] <shauno> right, just pointing out that the last one is a red herring :)
[19:12] <penguin42> andylockran: So the packet you grabbed the hex of - how did you select that, have you got the actual udp packets you're worrying about
[19:13] <andylockran> Just randomly selected
[19:14] <andylockran> they all seem v. similar at the top level
[19:14] <andylockran> the IP that they're comunicating with is weird though
[19:14] <andylockran> <IP_ADDRESS>
[19:15] <andylockran> which comes up as a phone site - so I guess I'm relaying their calls for free
[19:15] <shauno> hong kong.  lovely.
[19:16] <andylockran> even with inbound and outbound conns blocked to that ip, it continues.
[19:16] <penguin42> andylockran: iptraffic rule?
[19:16] <penguin42> iptables I mean
[19:17] <penguin42> andylockran: However, if your box has been owned it could have a hidden process that won't show up in top or anything
[19:17] <andylockran> set https://gist.github.com/anonymous/ec3cb8a7cc08801ff1b0
[19:17] <andylockran> penguin42: scared it's the latter :(
[19:18] <penguin42> andylockran: so what does   perf top    show ?
[19:19] <andylockran> penguin42: nowt
[19:19] <penguin42> andylockran: How do you mean nowt
[19:20] <andylockran> it doesn't show anything.  just says 0 cycles (not sure how to use it though)
[19:20] <penguin42> really? Oh never seen that
[19:22] <penguin42> andylockran: What distro?
[19:23] <andylockran> debian wheezy
[19:23] <penguin42> the other possibility is it's just got something like an ipsec or other kernel level vpn enabled
[19:24] <penguin42> andylockran: if you do    mount -t debugfs nodev /sys/kernel/debug   does it mount it?
[19:24] <andylockran> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/d594efb9b8523dc679b8
[19:25] <penguin42> ok, what about ls /sys/kernel/debug/tracing ?
[19:25] <andylockran> ls /sys/kernel/debug/tracing
[19:25] <andylockran> available_events   buffer_size_kb  events   per_cpu	    README	    set_event  trace_clock   trace_options  tracing_cpumask  tracing_on
[19:25] <andylockran> available_tracers  current_tracer  options  printk_formats  saved_cmdlines  trace      trace_marker  trace_pipe     tracing_enabled
[19:25] <penguin42> ooh that's promising - now can I figure out ftrace
[19:25] <andylockran> cheers for your time buddy - much appreciated
[19:26] <penguin42> andylockran: Can you install the trace-cmd package?
[19:27] <andylockran> git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/rostedt/trace-cmd.git?
[19:27] <penguin42> yes, although it should be packaged - it is on ubuntu, not sure about wheezy
[19:28] <andylockran> installed
[19:29] <penguin42> andylockran: so hmm now the idea is to do    trace-cmd record   something to record something
[19:29] <penguin42> andylockran: Maybe all the syscalls
[19:31] <andylockran> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/ae9c17f2124c3a77612c
[19:31] <penguin42> andylockran: how about    trace-cmd record -e syscalls:sys_exit_sendmsg
[19:32] <andylockran> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/7a07a716341c6ddc7368
[19:32] <penguin42> andylockran: trace-cmd list |grep send
[19:34] <andylockran> merlin:~/trace-cmd# trace-cmd list |grep send
[19:34] <andylockran> sched:sched_signal_send
[19:34] <penguin42> hmm that's boring - it doesn't seem to have syscalls
[19:35] <penguin42> how about grep for    net    instead of send?
[19:36] <penguin42> if it has net_dev_xmit  it would be good
[19:36] <andylockran> nothing on net
[19:36] <penguin42> ok, that's just too old
[19:37] <davmor2> Well this seems to of worked.   Server Upgrades FTW
[19:37] <andylockran> perf_5.2
[19:37] <penguin42> andylockran: Other than strace'ing every pid I can't think of much
[19:37] <penguin42> andylockran: Your kernel/perf is just too old for any of the funkier tools
[19:38] <andylockran> aww . damnit :(
[19:39] <penguin42> andylockran: Tried running rkhunter?
[19:40] <penguin42> andylockran: Anything fun in dmesg?
[19:40] <andylockran> nowt
[19:42] <penguin42> andylockran: well I'm out of ideas - it's not looking good for the machine though
[21:13] <shauno> why do they always put blue LEDs in wifi dongles :/  if something's going on the side of my laptop, it shouldn't have a rescue strobe attached to it
[21:44] <penguin42> shauno: Because we've run out of other LED colours that are 'cool'
[21:45] <shauno> I'm entirely in favour of no LEDs
[22:58] <StevenR> hrrm. As far as I can tell, Ubuntu 14.04 LTS is released.... why doesn't do-release-upgrade see it?
[23:00]  * penguin42 has half a memory that in 10.04 the update didn't happen until 12.04.1 was out, but I might be imagining that
[23:02] <StevenR> penguin42: you're right
[23:02] <StevenR> Users of 12.04 LTS will be offered the automatic upgrade when 14.04.1 LTS is released, which is scheduled for July 24th
[23:02] <StevenR> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2014/04/17/ubuntu-14-04-trusty-tahr-released/
[23:03] <StevenR> thanks penguin42
[23:03] <penguin42> still, I should probably upgrade my dad's 12.10
[23:09] <ging> is there an ubuntu ppa related channel?
[23:16] <penguin42> not that I'm aware of, there is #ubuntu-packaging if your problem is rying to package stuff
[23:25] <ging> trying to find out if you can put a binary package you have no source for in a ppa
[23:30] <penguin42> I suspect that's technically doable, not sure if it's allowed under the rules or not


 Happy Thursday, and happy Saint Patrick’s Day! 😃
[09:36] <JamesTait> AKA "Pretend You're Irish Day", eh MooDoo? ☘
[09:38] <zmoylan-pi> ...or if you're irish avoid dublin like the plague as it'll be tourists and debauchery...
[09:40] <JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, I'd always assumed that was the general case, tbh.
[09:40] <zmoylan-pi> true but paddies day is x10
[09:42] <popey> Potato!
[09:43] <zmoylan-pi> is that a recognised code word from a proscribed organisation?
[09:44] <popey> To be sure.
[09:45] <davmor2> JamesTait: got you covered https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15qc3_joy5A
[09:48] <JamesTait> Top o' the mornin' to you too, davmor2
[09:48] <zmoylan-pi> there was a poll for songs that make you feel most irish... http://www.rte.ie/radio1/ray/  #1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5PT65I2ny8
[09:50] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi, JamesTait: this is more synonymous with Saint Patricks day nowadays though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTjC6rxHz8g
[09:58] <JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, I'd have to agree ☺
[10:00] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: you mean it was Danny Boy
[10:00] <davmor2> wasn't even
[10:00] <zmoylan-pi> danny boy is more for americans who want to get in touch with irish roots.
[10:00] <davmor2> but that is how you spot the Irish in a pub, They have one too many and all burst into Danny Boy
[10:01] <zmoylan-pi> the only version i like is the one i heard once of the drunken version with the verse.  'and just when you think it can't get any worse' 'turns out the drunk bugger knows every verse' :-)
[11:12] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: hahaha
[11:13] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: reminds me of the beer song from the bard
[11:15] <awilkins> Anyone laid hands on the new Lenovo T460s  ?
[11:15] <awilkins> I've kinda decided against the X1 Carbon because I hear it overheats when you ask it to, y'know, do stuff.
[11:15] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzYof5GjhQ8
[11:16] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[11:17] <czajkowski> Or
[11:33] <TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Just carry a portable fridge. Problem solved!
[11:34] <TwistedLucidity> It's St Paddys, and I'll be off to the pub! Huzzah! For a talk on Bitcoin. Huzzah?
[11:36] <popey> bigcalm: hows the pebble?
[11:36] <bigcalm> popey: mostly comfortable. I'm going to go to Timpsons at lunch time and see about a different strap
[11:37] <bigcalm> popey: I do like the rubbery strap, but it is rather sweat inducing
[11:37] <bigcalm> I've managed to scruff the bezel a little. Thankfully it's not the glass
[11:38] <popey> I think that's inevitable really
[11:38] <popey> I know some people have bought stickers to cover the bezel
[11:38] <popey> mine's not too badly scuffed as it happens. Which is surprising given how scuffed my phones are
[11:38] <popey> I don't drop my watch often though :)
[11:39] <bigcalm> :D
[11:46] <zmoylan-pi> i have a tendency to stop doors swinging or lift doors with my watch
[11:49] <awilkins> You'd think they'd put a brushed steel bezel on or something
[11:51] <foobarry> anyone use a privacy screen on their laptop?
[11:51] <foobarry> or monitor
[11:53] <awilkins> I've seen them used but I've never considered getting one myself
[11:54] <foobarry> getting sent a free one \o/
[11:54] <foobarry> but dunno if they will just annoy me because i need more brighhtness
[11:54] <foobarry> but you can whip it off the screen easily
[12:05] <davmor2> I was magic, but not a lot, rip Paul
[12:11] <davmor2> s/I/It
[12:12] <foobarry> fail
[12:14] <awilkins> I always enjoyed his show as a kid
[12:15] <zmoylan-pi> heads i win, tails you lose...
[12:15] <awilkins> Shame the focus on Saturday night TV is on being a free talent scout for Simon Cowell now
[12:46] <awilkins> What's the current recommendation for a $1 a month US based VPS? All I need is ~ 128MB or possibly less
[13:02] <MooDoo> didn't know you could get them that cheap
[13:03] <zmoylan-pi> i think that's just what awilkins is prepared to pay :-)
[13:04] <zmoylan-pi> should just post an american friend or relative a pre configured rasp pi... :-)
[13:07] <popey> I spent some time playing with my Pi 3 in a PiCade last night. It's super for playing old arcade games
[13:08] <zmoylan-pi> even the original pi could play _old_ arcade games :-)
[13:08] <popey> heh
[13:08] <popey> true
[13:09] <zmoylan-pi> the pi3 just makes it so games not so old are now playable
[13:09] <popey> I also got a wireless keyboard for it so I could play some spectrum games :)
[13:09] <zmoylan-pi> well even a bt keyboard has more processing power than the speccy :-)
[13:09] <popey> hah
[13:10] <zmoylan-pi> and of course a better keyboard... :-P
[14:38] <davmor2> My favourite Paul Daniels Moment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io-Bby3iWVs
[14:38] <Seeker`> I really hope that's brass eye
[14:38]  * Seeker` is disappointed
[14:40] <gebbione_> #ubuntu
[16:20] <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: What is it with celebs not making it through 70? We're starting to get told we can't retire until we're over 75...I worried about working myself to death!
[16:22] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: only the good die young you'll live forever ;)
[16:22] <diddledan> 2016 has been excellent so far at killing off our heroes
[16:22] <TwistedLucidity> \o/
[16:22] <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: I'm off out tonight and I intend to be rather evil towards a few pints....
[16:22] <davmor2> diddledan: to be honest the last 12 months have been
[16:23] <diddledan> those that aren't dead or dying are being arrested for naughty sexual deviance
[16:24] <davmor2> maybe that is the cause it was the sex drugs and rock and roll
[16:24] <TwistedLucidity> Strangely, it's the clean-cut ones who are getting arrested. The actual hard-rocking deviant seem to be...err...normal
[16:31] <diplo> Hey guys, not sure how many of you work with lots of customers but wondering what others do... each of customers have different setups from us doing support for PC's/network/software to external companies to themselves. Wanting a way to store that information and was wondering if anyone uses any specific software to do that ?
[16:31] <diplo> If not I'll probably try adding to Case management software but it's quite a task :)
[16:44] <TwistedLucidity> diplo: We do and it's a sodding PITA
[16:44] <TwistedLucidity> There's no easy answer to be honest, especially as customers upgrade stuff, don't tell use and then whinge when things break. Which we, of course, can't replicate on what we /think/ is their system.
[16:46] <diplo> More to the point for us is I don't do a lot of support but have been doing more recently, the 2 guys that do it no all this stuff off the top of their heads
[16:46] <diplo> I just wanted a way of storing information per site on who their support contracts are with etc
[16:46] <diplo> Guess I'll write something myself :)
[16:48] <TwistedLucidity> We have a variety of tools in the products which yank versions relevant to them. That, some text fields and a large amount of swearing from me seems to work.
[16:48] <diddledan> I've never used a CRM but I wonder if maybe one of those would help?
[16:58] <diplo> Maybe, going to install some stuff in a VM and play I guess
[16:58] <diplo> Anyway home time! \o/
[16:58] <diplo> thanks guys
[19:55] <foobarry> diplo: redmine
[19:55] <foobarry> i thought u used it before?
[19:56] <foobarry> also redminecrm.com have good plugins for CRM addons


[05:26] <crunchbang> hello
[05:27] <crunchbang> anyone i have some issue with a flash drive
[05:28] <crunchbang> it is 16gb
[05:28] <crunchbang> something happened to my partition
[05:29] <crunchbang> when i check it with sfdisk or testdisk i can see the 16gb but cannot access it


[02:45] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[03:27] <arraybolt3> hams: might want to fix your connection, the disconnects are getting a bit much
[03:27] <arraybolt3> (might be a bit late but they look ongoing)


[10:52] <mup> PR snapd#12572 closed: wrappers: remove unreachable test code <Simple 😃> <Skip spread> <Created by MiguelPires> <Merged by MiguelPires> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12572>
[13:22] <mup> PR snapd#12576 opened: i/b/fwupd: allow to write to some EFI path for some capsules <Created by valentindavid> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12576>
[15:13] <mup> PR snapd#12577 opened: o/snapstate: create pre-dl task even if one is in DoneStatus <Simple 😃> <Created by MiguelPires> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12577>
[16:08] <mup> PR snapd#12559 closed: interfaces: relax rules for mount-control `what` for functionfs <Squash-merge> <Needs Samuele review> <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12559>


[00:00] <askhl_> godbyk, very strange.  Maybe it's a launchpad issue
[00:00] <godbyk> askhl_: It may be. I'd ask in #launchpad.  See if they have any ideas.
[00:00] <askhl_> Our translation was up to 56% (or 54%), is now slightly less than 50%
[00:00] <godbyk> It'd be nice to know what causes it.
[00:00] <askhl_> Right
[00:00] <askhl_> Thanks
[00:00] <godbyk> Let me know if you figure anything out.
[00:06] <askhl_> I'll try tomorrow when the Canonical people are online.  This seems rather serious IMO
[00:07] <godbyk> 'kay.
[00:07] <godbyk> I think the Launchpad translation folks hang out in #launchpad during European work hours.
[00:08] <askhl_> I'll figure it out - I've talked to them on numerous occasions.  Very helpful people, launchpad's a mess though sometimes
[00:09] <godbyk> True on both counts.
[00:09] <godbyk> They've always been friendly and helpful when I've talked to them.
[00:09] <godbyk> I think they just have a ton of things to do.
[00:10] <askhl_> yeah
[16:27] <jenkins> hello all
[20:11] <ChrisWoollard> Hello all
[20:13] <ChrisWoollard> I noticed that nobody has created an agenda for sunday's meeting. So I have started one.
[20:13] <ChrisWoollard> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings
[20:22] <jenkins> evening all
[20:23] <godbyk> Thanks, ChrisWoollard.
[20:24] <ChrisWoollard> jenkins: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings
[20:24] <ChrisWoollard> godbyk: np
[20:24] <jenkins> I should be there I don't think I have anything to add
[20:26] <godbyk> Ben said he could probably make the meeting, too.
[20:26] <ChrisWoollard> I think I am going to add myself to the ubuntu membership for the next meeting.
[20:26] <ChrisWoollard> europe that is.
[20:26] <godbyk> We also need to look into translating e2 (someone needs to update the .pot file for e2).
[20:26] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Cool!  I may do that one of these months.
[20:27] <ChrisWoollard> Well, looking at the others on the list, I don't think it should be too difficult <fingers crossed>.
[20:28] <ChrisWoollard> Should that go on the agenda? Or is somebody that knows about it just going to do it?
[20:29] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: you can add it to the agenda if you like.
[20:29] <godbyk> usually dutchie handles it (I think).
[20:29] <godbyk> but I haven't seen dutchie for a bit.
[20:30] <jenkins> I think I can remeber how to update translations I will look for the command in the log
[20:31] <jenkins> got it
[20:31] <godbyk> jenkins: cool.  if it's just one command, we should add it to the Makefile.
[20:32] <jenkins> you need to build the manual first, then run po4a -v --no-translations -MUTF-8 --copyright-holder "The Ubuntu Manual Team" --package-name ubuntu-manual --package-version `bzr revno` po4a.conf
[20:32] <godbyk> Btw, if anyone out there is better at Makefiles than I am, feel free to clean it up and make it all snazzy.
[20:32] <jenkins> but you need to get the latest po files from launchpad first as well
[20:33] <godbyk> Why does it need the latest po files?
[20:33] <ChrisWoollard> I was thinking ok hacking around with the meetings wiki page a bit. i.e. to move all the older meetings to an archive page.
[20:34] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: That's probably a good idea.  Maybe have an archives page for each edition?  (Instead of one really long page?)
[20:35] <jenkins> godbyk: I think otherwise you will over write the translations
[20:37] <dpm> hey all, I'm just idling here and I saw this conversation. I haven't used po4all much, but if it works like other i18n tools, there is no need to fetch the translations if you only want to update the template
[20:37] <ChrisWoollard> Is it me or does it feel like working with bazaar / launchpad / rosetta is bit like guess work / Hit and miss / peeing into the wind?
[20:38] <dpm> ChrisWoollard, the workflow is * update the pot template * commit it * let LP import it. When you want to fetch translations, you simply need to merge the branch containing the PO files comitted automatically with the branch you need translations for
[20:40] <jenkins> dpm: so launchpad only needs to import the pot file to update all the translations?
[20:41] <ChrisWoollard> dpm: It is nice to have people around that know the process
[20:41] <jenkins> yep we all seam to find translations a dark art
[20:42] <dpm> :)
[20:42] <dpm> jenkins, yes. Launchpad imports the new templates you commit, exposes the relevant strings to translators. Then translators do their work and the translations (PO files) are committed to a branch of your choice. When you are ready to release, (or whenever you feel you want to test translations), you can just merge that branch containing translations
[20:43] <jenkins> that makes sense, i think we stopped merging in the po files from a branch for some reason, i will ask josh
[20:44] <dpm> roughly, apart from letting translators know about releases, maintainers just need to take care of updating the template (POT file) whenever there are new strings to translate, and merge the translations (PO files) from the translations branch from time to time, most especially before a release
[20:44] <jenkins> when a program is released where on the file system do the po files go?
[20:45] <dpm> jenkins, yeah, importing templates and translations was causing problems. I talked to some of you guys some weeks ago and an admin chose the right setting: import only templates
[20:45] <jenkins> I now understand this now it thanks dpm
[20:46] <dpm> jenkins, usually they go to /usr/share/locale/<langcode>/LC_MESSAGES or /usr/share/locale-langpack/<langcode>/LC_MESSAGES in the form of binary .mo files (basically compiled .po files). In the case of u-m, however, the po files are simply converted to translated latex files
[20:46] <dpm> no worries
[20:46] <ChrisWoollard> dpm: Sorry if I offended you. I guess it is lack of knowledge on my part. Thanks for the explanation.
[20:47] <jenkins> dpm: thanks I was asking for quickshot :)
[20:47] <dpm> ChrisWoollard, really, no offence taken. I wasn't intending to respond in a manner that seemed I was, either :)
[20:48] <ChrisWoollard> You didn't. I just suddenly thought that my comment wasn't the best thing to say.
[20:48] <dpm> no worries :)
[20:48] <dpm> jenkins, then for quickshot they'd go to /usr/share/locale/<langcode>/LC_MESSAGES, <langcode> being a 2-letter or 3-letter ISO 639 code, plus optional _CC country or region suffix
[20:48] <ChrisWoollard> :)
[20:49] <dpm> oh, need to run now, movies night!
[20:49] <dpm> bye all!
[20:49] <jenkins> night
[20:51] <jenkins> I am still running the update thing
[21:01] <jenkins> right pot file pushed so launchpad *should* update mavrick
[21:03] <godbyk> we need to push the pot file to lucid-e2
[21:03] <godbyk> the maverick branch will probably get wiped and restarted or something.
[21:04] <godbyk> (the whole history thing is irksome)
[21:05] <jenkins> now you tell me :P
[21:09] <godbyk> :)
[21:14] <jenkins> ChrisWoollard: did you say you were going for ubuntu membership?
[21:14] <godbyk> jenkins: Found my conversation on #launchpad for when I set up the e2 branch: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/05/08/%23launchpad.html#t06:47
[21:14] <ChrisWoollard> jenkins: Yes
[21:15] <jenkins> I may have to try and sort mine out no harm in trying
[21:16] <ChrisWoollard> I think it is worth it. And if you don't try you don't get.
[21:17] <jenkins> yep I need to sort out my wiki page
[21:17] <jenkins> godbyk: that was what I was trying to do but we can't delete the branch as one is linked to it
[21:17] <ChrisWoollard> Yes. I seem to remember a few people said they would write something.
[21:20] <jenkins> I will add a comment when is your meeting?
[21:23] <godbyk> jenkins: can we unlink the branches?
[21:23] <godbyk> I don't know how any of it works. :)
[21:25] <jenkins> I will try
[21:27] <jenkins> updated lucid-e2 all being well
[21:29] <godbyk> jenkins: I might have you update lucid-e2 again in just a moment.
[21:29] <godbyk> I'll fix those little typo bugs that were just reported
[21:29] <jenkins> ok
[21:29] <godbyk> (so the translators don't translate the wrong text.)
[21:30] <jenkins> if I knew which branchs were linked it would help and i can't see it in launcgpad
[21:33] <godbyk> try disconnecting the branch from the series first.
[21:33] <godbyk> that's what I apparently had to do for e1.
[21:33] <jenkins> I think I am going to aim for the September the 7th 8.00utc meeting of the membership board
[21:35] <jenkins> nope still got the same message
[21:37] <jenkins> I have put everything back as it was so not to break anythign
[21:40] <ChrisWoollard> All: Have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings
[21:41] <ChrisWoollard> That is a board I was thinking of going to.
[21:43] <jenkins> much better wiki ChrisWoollard, hopefully i will see you there
[21:44] <ChrisWoollard> Hopefully. I haven't checked by schedule yet, but i think it ok.
[21:46] <jenkins> does anyone know if nissh got his membership?
[21:46] <godbyk> jenkins: I fixed the one main bug I cared about. :)
[21:50] <daker> jenkins, he didn't
[21:50] <jenkins> godbyk: pushing the updated file now
[21:50] <jenkins> daker: any idea why?
[21:51] <daker> he got the notification 1hours before the meeting
[21:51] <daker> s/hours/hour
[21:52] <jenkins> :( what basically saying he was not ready yet?
[21:53] <daker> yes like they say
[21:53] <daker> they that he should prepare a good intro
[21:54] <daker> and get more testimonials
[21:55] <ChrisWoollard> hopefully Jenkins and myself can get some good testimonials ready for sept 7th ;)
[21:56] <jenkins> well my page needs some work https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LukeJennings
[21:56] <jenkins> but feel free to start thinking about those testimonials
[21:56] <daker> ChrisWoollard, jenkins do you apply for a membership ?
[21:56] <ChrisWoollard> yes
[21:56] <jenkins> we are on the 7th of september
[21:57] <daker> oh good!
[21:58] <ChrisWoollard> Somebody at canonical seems to have broken launchpad
[21:58] <godbyk> What should be on our wiki pages besides the testimonials?
[21:58] <Muscovy> I plan to apply sometime this year, maybe.
[21:58] <ChrisWoollard> Look at ben's
[21:59] <ChrisWoollard> his seems quite good. I borrowed most of it and changed it for my own purpose.
[22:00] <jenkins> I took rhe motu template
[22:01] <godbyk> jenkins: where's the motu template?
[22:02] <jenkins> I don't know i found it once and never again just copy it from mine
[22:02] <godbyk> sounds good
[22:02] <ChrisWoollard> mine is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/cwoollard
[22:03] <jenkins> ooo chris has someone from cononical
[22:04] <jenkins> :P
[22:04] <daker> yeah
[22:04] <ChrisWoollard> :D
[22:05] <ChrisWoollard> He is a salesman i know.
[22:05] <Omega> Cheating!
[22:05] <ChrisWoollard> I know. But i had to do it.
[22:06] <ChrisWoollard> I know ben got Jono Bacon. Now, that is cheating!
[22:07] <Muscovy> I wish the guidelines were a bit more comprehensive. I'm worried about being turned down if I apply too early.
[22:08] <ChrisWoollard> I can't believe that nissh got turned down!
[22:09] <ChrisWoollard> I am going to send a meeting notification out as nobody else has done it.
[22:11] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: good idea.
[22:11] <godbyk> Why'd nissh get turned down?
[22:12] <ChrisWoollard> He wasn't prepared. He didn't get notification until just before the meeting. Plus lack of testimonials.
[22:16] <Omega> What kind of questions do they ask?
[22:21] <jenkins> does anyone else see http://paste.ubuntu.com/481144/ when thumper and zkriesse entered?
[22:22] <zkriesse> jenkins: Im on my ipod so its probably why it happened for me
[22:23] <jenkins> ok cool, just wondered
[22:25] <godbyk> jenkins: yeah, I saw that, too.
[22:29] <ChrisWoollard> The meeting e-mail has gone out.
[22:36] <godbyk> Hey, daker.  How's it going?
[22:36] <godbyk> humpreybc asked me the other day how the new website design was coming along, but I didn't know anything about it.  Do you know anything?
[22:37] <daker> btw i need you to install django
[22:39] <godbyk> I can do that.
[22:39] <godbyk> Any particular version?  Or just whatever the latest released version is?
[22:40] <daker> i am runing the repos version
[22:40] <daker> i think it's 1.1.1
[22:40] <godbyk> ok
[23:03] <jenkins> night all
[23:03] <ChrisWoollard> G'night
[23:03] <ChrisWoollard> too late
[23:36] <ChrisWoollard> G'night all. Time for bed.
[23:39] <godbyk> G'night, ChrisWoollard.


[04:47] <chowdah> anyone know anything about gnome being included soon?
[04:48] <shinmen> chowdah, for what arch? sparc already has it.
[04:51] <chowdah> really? then how can i install it?
[04:51] <chowdah> it is a sparc arch
[04:52] <shinmen> chowdah, The way I got it was with the mini-iso and that did the trick for me.
[04:53] <chowdah> yeah, i used that to install
[04:53] <chowdah> but it didn't install gnome on its own