[15:00] <sil2100> o/
[15:00] <cpaelzer> o/
[15:00] <BenC> o/
[15:00] <micahg> o/
[15:00] <cpaelzer> I don't know all you geographies, but given that there seems to be a UK public holiday at least rbasak might be missing
[15:00] <bdmurray> o/
[15:01] <BenC> Not sure if anyone’s in USA-TX, but that may also affect availability.
[15:02] <cyphermox> I don't think anyone is
[15:03] <sil2100> We have at least 4 members, so that's good enough to start I suppose?
[15:03] <tsimonq2> But wait... that's quorum, no?
[15:03] <tsimonq2> sil2100: jinx :)
[15:03] <cyphermox> quorum is 4, indeed.
[15:03] <cyphermox> but you can't count me, I expired.
[15:03] <sil2100> + cyphermox, but he's ekhm, expired :<
[15:04] <cyphermox> we can address that and voting for DMB membership at the end no?
[15:04] <sil2100> Yeah
[15:05] <sil2100> Ok, I guess I'll chair today
[15:05] <sil2100> #startmeeting DMB
[15:05] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 28 15:05:25 2017 UTC.  The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:05] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:05] <sil2100> #topic Review of previous action items
[15:06] <sil2100> I only see one previous action item on the agenda: "rbasak to handle flexiondotorg's request for adding mate-hud to the MATE package set"
[15:06] <sil2100> Not sure if rbasak is around today
[15:06] <bdmurray> I thought he had a follow up question that went unanswered.
[15:07] <cpaelzer> he is one of the UK people with public holiday today
[15:07] <sil2100> Ah, ok
[15:07] <cpaelzer> But flexiondotorg is added according to ubuntu-upload-permission
[15:07] <cpaelzer> $ ubuntu-upload-permission mate-hud --list-uploaders
[15:07] <sil2100> cpaelzer: thanks
[15:08] <sil2100> I think we also had one meeting where meetingology wasn't working, not sure if we captured those action items in the agenda
[15:08] <sil2100> Ah, yes, we did
[15:09] <sil2100> "sil2100 to send out a DMB nomination reminder, including information about what happens if there are few nominations."
[15:09] <sil2100> This is done and we got one more nomination for LocutusOfBorg
[15:09] <sil2100> We'll talk about that at the end of the meeting
[15:09] <sil2100> "bdmurray follow up with BenC regarding meeting times"
[15:10] <rbasak> o/
[15:10] <sil2100> bdmurray, BenC: ^ did that happen?
[15:10] <rbasak> Sorry I'm late.
[15:10] <sil2100> rbasak: o/ hey! No worries, there is quorum
[15:10] <sil2100> Actually, all active members are present now, nice
[15:10] <bdmurray> sil2100: Yes it did
[15:10] <rbasak> It's a public holiday here today. I lost track of the time :-/
[15:10] <BenC> It did. I conveyed that I am open to whatever times, but during work hours (current meetings are 11am and 3pm) things can come up that make it difficult to attend.
[15:11] <sil2100> Excellent
[15:11] <cpaelzer> rbasak: you were excused, I made sure everyone knew that you have a public holiday
[15:11] <sil2100> Ok, so let's move on
[15:12] <sil2100> We have a few applicants, some mentioned doing their applications through e-mail
[15:12] <sil2100> tsimonq2 I guess you're available now, right?
[15:12] <rbasak> FWIW, I'd much prefer to handle applications in our regular meetings if possible.
[15:12] <tsimonq2> Yeahp.
[15:12] <tsimonq2> (I didn't think I would be, fwiw)
[15:13] <sil2100> rbasak: +1
[15:13] <cpaelzer> I didn't want to break the process either, if there ever is the "need" to do per mail pelase say so
[15:13] <sil2100> Ok, since tsimonq2's application was supposed to be earlier, I'd say let's start here
[15:14] <micahg> we've sometimes offered applicants who were bumped to apply by mail, but it usually ends up dragging out past the next meeting, so it doesn't make sense to continue doing so
[15:14] <micahg> bumped due to no quorum
[15:14] <sil2100> #topic MOTU Applications
[15:14] <sil2100> #subtopic Simon Quigley
[15:14] <sil2100> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/tsimonq2/Applications/MOTU
[15:15] <sil2100> tsimonq2: could you introduce yourself? :)
[15:15] <tsimonq2> Hi, my name is Simon Quigley, I'm a 15 year old living in Wisconsin, USA, and I've been an Ubuntu Member for 2.5 years now (I help with stuff like UWN and Lubuntu Release Management, and a couple more things). I have wanted to apply for MOTU for a while, but the documentation was (and quite frankly still is, Kubuntu was a big help) too poor to get me started.
[15:15] <tsimonq2> For reference: Launchpad page: https://launchpad.net/~tsimonq2
[15:15] <tsimonq2> Let me know if you have any questions. :)
[15:16] <sil2100> (I'll need a minute to read your application as I only prepared for cpaelzer's case today)
[15:16] <tsimonq2> Ok :)
[15:16] <rbasak> tsimonq2: you mean the documentation to apply for MOTU, or to become active with MOTU, or something else?
[15:16] <tsimonq2> rbasak: Well, the Packaging Guide and some wiki pages associated with it use a lot of outdated syntax (like, bzr stuff)
[15:17] <rbasak> Ah,  I see. So documentation on generally doing packaging work?
[15:17] <tsimonq2> rbasak: Very confusing if you're a contributor knowing nothing about the Ubuntu development side of things
[15:17] <rbasak> I appreciate that's a mess atm.
[15:17] <tsimonq2> Yeah.
[15:17] <tsimonq2> I didn't say anything when mitya57 said something on the mailing list (but should have, I have an active interest in updating it)
[15:17] <rbasak> FTR, I'm focusing on "git ubuntu" as the future recommended and documented way of doing things.
[15:17] <rbasak> Hopefully that'll avoid much of the cruft.
[15:18] <tsimonq2> rbasak: I hope so too :)
[15:18] <tsimonq2> Git is really really nice.
[15:19] <sil2100> Anyway, in the meantime, feel free to ask tsimonq2 questions
[15:19] <tsimonq2> But we can follow up later or another day about that... my point is, the documentation for new contributors is not as up-to-date as it should be.
[15:19]  * rbasak is catching up with the application
[15:19]  * BenC is as well
[15:21] <bdmurray> tsimonq2: You say that you could be a bit more patient. How does your impatience appear in your work?
[15:22] <sil2100> http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=simon+Quigley&sponsoree_search=name <- sponsorship miner lookup
[15:23] <tsimonq2> bdmurray: So, every day I learn new tricks for my workflow, but there have been times (non security updates or SRUs, I test those heavily) where I've done iterations on a fix and then "just submitted" to my sponsor because I know they'll run it through sbuild/pbuild, and then they'll find mistakes because I wasn't patient enough to let sbuild finish... :P
[15:24] <micahg> I notice that a lot of the recent merges don't seem to close tracking bugs in launchpad
[15:24] <BenC> tsimonq2: To quote Adam Conrad “pbuild is not a test bed” :)
[15:25] <tsimonq2> (it's also a point to make that nowadays I'll often upload it to ppa:tsimonq2/universe-upload-testing and let it build there, then have $sponsor trigger autopkgtests so I can test those, that seems like a decent workflow)
[15:25] <bdmurray> tsimonq2: But if you have upload rights won't the $sponsor part be gone?
[15:26] <tsimonq2> bdmurray: But then I can trigger those tests myself, no?
[15:26] <BenC> Yeah, you’ll need to move that part of your workflow locally given the removal of the stop-gap that being in MOTU provides.
[15:27] <tsimonq2> Sure, I should put the same amount of effort in testing (i.e. build it locally, etc.) as with SRUs and security updates.
[15:28] <tsimonq2> I have the workflow (all of the tools set up (<3 sbuild)) but it's just a matter of making 100% sure that it works.
[15:28] <tsimonq2> But yeah, that won't be a hard thing to do.
[15:28] <rbasak> tsimonq2: can you upload anything already without sponsorship? Or would MOTU be the first?
[15:28] <tsimonq2> rbasak: MOTU would be the first
[15:28] <rbasak> OK
[15:29] <tsimonq2> (well, with the exception of Kubuntu Backports PPAs, but that's a different thing)
[15:29] <tsimonq2> (and that's not technically the archive)
[15:29] <rbasak> Can you give us some examples of when it would not be suitable to upload something please? For example if someone is asking you for sponsorship, what might you consider?
[15:30] <tsimonq2>  1. What does the Ubuntu delta look like? (my sponsors have been really big in helping me reduce those)
[15:30] <tsimonq2>  2. Does it build?
[15:30] <tsimonq2>  3. Is the diff/needed changes correct?
[15:30] <tsimonq2> I won't want to upload something that should go to Debian (trivial things like Standards-version bumps, etc.) unless there's circumstances that justify it
[15:31] <rbasak> Good answers, thanks. What about Ubuntu's release cycle? What are the events in the release cycle that might need consideration before upload?
[15:31] <tsimonq2> Feature Freeze
[15:31] <tsimonq2> That goshdarn Feature Freeze :P
[15:32] <rbasak> Any others?
[15:32] <tsimonq2> But yeah, just in general anything on here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
[15:33] <rbasak> How might you determine if a particular package's bugfix you're about to upload is affected by a beta milestone freeze?
[15:34] <BenC> And have you ever stopped yourself from uploading based on these conditions, or has it always been a sponsor guiding you? What instances have you self regulated your upload in light of the conditions/schedule?
[15:35] <tsimonq2> rbasak: By looking at #ubuntu-release (which should, in theory, have it in the topic) - but to be honest, I usually assume that if images are spun up for the milestone (Monday, Tuesday *maybe*) that devel is frozen until the release of that milestone.
[15:35] <tsimonq2> (which should happen, no?)
[15:36] <rbasak> Unseeded packages are unaffected by image testing. But if you want to be more cautious than that, then that's fine :)
[15:36] <sil2100> tsimonq2: as for me, a quick question - could you tell me briefly what's the difference between universe and multiverse in Ubuntu?
[15:38] <tsimonq2> sil2100: MOTUs both have upload permissions for Universe and Multiverse, and Multiverse are packages with some sort of licensing issue (msttcorefonts (I think I spelled that wrong) for example), while Universe is Free-As-In-Open-Source packages.
[15:38] <tsimonq2> rbasak: To be fair, a lot of things I have to upload at that time are in one of those packagesets :P
[15:38] <sil2100> Ok
[15:38] <sil2100> No more questions from me
[15:39] <sil2100> tsimonq2: I guess BenC had one question there for you as well ^
[15:39] <tsimonq2> BenC: No, to be honest, because there hasn't been a need to (I've done the majority of my uploads in non-FeatureFreeze devels and Stable Releases)
[15:39] <micahg> tsimonq2: are you done with the upload once you (or your sponsor) dput to the archive?
[15:39] <tsimonq2> micahg: Nope
[15:39] <tsimonq2> micahg: Britney <3
[15:40] <tsimonq2> micahg: This is a cool little page, I don't use it for the content (as much, nice autopkgtest syntax) but it has excuses and output links: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration
[15:40] <tsimonq2> micahg: (when I say "Britney" I mean, make sure it migrates from -proposed)
[15:41] <rbasak> I have no further questions, thanks.
[15:41] <micahg> So, I noticed that nodejs was uploaded on 8/17 (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nodejs/6.11.2~dfsg-2ubuntu1) and is still stuck, have you done any work on this? still stuck
[15:41] <micahg> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#nodejs
[15:42] <tsimonq2> micahg: Yep, fails autopkgtest, it's on my todolist to look into
[15:42] <tsimonq2> (i.e. it's rdeps do, I remember that without looking at the page)
[15:43] <BenC> tsimonq2: At this point, do you feel you would be able to mentor someone into starting with MOTU?
[15:43] <tsimonq2> BenC: Yes, and I have already.
[15:43] <BenC> Excellent, that’s all I have.
[15:44] <sil2100> Any other questions?
[15:44] <sil2100> We have one more applicant so I'd like us to get on to voting
[15:45] <sil2100> #vote Grant tsimonq2 MOTU
[15:45] <meetingology> Please vote on: Grant tsimonq2 MOTU
[15:45] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[15:45] <rbasak> +1
[15:45] <meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
[15:45] <bdmurray> +1
[15:45] <meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
[15:45] <micahg> +0 a lot of great work, but I'd like to see a little more focus on shepherding things through proposed, especially things with a lot of rdeps like nodejs
[15:46] <meetingology> +0 a lot of great work, but I'd like to see a little more focus on shepherding things through proposed, especially things with a lot of rdeps like nodejs received from micahg
[15:46] <tsimonq2> micahg: Fair, thanks :)
[15:46] <sil2100> +1 (I am fairly satisfied with Simon's work so far, he's still learning the ropes but to me it's sufficient for MOTU)
[15:46] <meetingology> +1 (I am fairly satisfied with Simon's work so far, he's still learning the ropes but to me it's sufficient for MOTU) received from sil2100
[15:47] <BenC> +1
[15:47] <meetingology> +1 received from BenC
[15:47] <sil2100> #endvote
[15:47] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant tsimonq2 MOTU
[15:47] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
[15:47] <meetingology> Motion carried
[15:47] <sil2100> tsimonq2: congratulations!
[15:47] <tsimonq2> :D
[15:47] <tsimonq2> Thanks!
[15:47] <tsimonq2> \o/
[15:47] <micahg> tsimonq2: congrats
[15:48] <cpaelzer> gz tsimonq2
[15:48] <tsimonq2> :D
[15:48] <sil2100> tsimonq2: just remember, keep working on attention to detail and be sure not to leave packages rotting in -proposed!
[15:48] <tsimonq2> micahg: Like I said before, thanks for the review, I understand where you're coming from :)
[15:48] <tsimonq2> sil2100: Ok, thanks :)
[15:48] <sil2100> #action sil2100 to add tsimonq2 to MOTU and send announcements
[15:48] <meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 to add tsimonq2 to MOTU and send announcements
[15:49] <sil2100> #topic Core Developer Applications
[15:49] <sil2100> #subtopic Christian Ehrhardt
[15:49] <cpaelzer> Hello everybody
[15:49] <sil2100> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChristianEhrhardt/CoreDevApplication
[15:49] <sil2100> cpaelzer: please, introduce yourself o/
[15:50] <flexiondotorg> tsimonq2 Congratulations! Well deserved :-)
[15:50] <cpaelzer> Hi, my name is Christian Ehrhardt
[15:50] <cpaelzer> I'm 36 and working on Ubuntu as a main job for about 2 years now
[15:50] <cpaelzer> formerly an active user working on Linux on Mainframes
[15:51] <cpaelzer> which I still work on sometimes now for the server team that Im in
[15:51] <sil2100> http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=christian+Ehrhardt&sponsoree_search=name <- sponsorship miner lookup
[15:51] <cpaelzer> Being on the Server Team my daily tasks mostly focus around the virtualization stack qemu/libvirt and all its deps
[15:51] <cpaelzer> more on dpdk/openvswitch
[15:51] <cpaelzer> but many more
[15:51] <cpaelzer> as there just are a lot of things distributed on (now) 4 people
[15:52] <cpaelzer> among others I also took over postrges from pitti when he left for example (together with nacc)
[15:52] <cpaelzer> there is so much more, not sure what to add
[15:52] <cpaelzer> default family setup - wife, 2 kids
[15:52] <rbasak> FTR, cpaelzer's application seems a bit thin on endorsements; I'd be happy to add mine.
[15:53] <cpaelzer> thanks rbasak, since I move through the applications rather quickly over the time I wanted to make sure I ahve different people every time
[15:53] <cpaelzer> so on motu / on ppu / on core dev
[15:53] <bdmurray> cpaelzer: Did you ask nacc for an endorsement?
[15:53] <cpaelzer> I didn't want the same names every time or you'd tihnk I just have a few people pushing me
[15:54] <cpaelzer> no because he would be "too close" for the same reason I didn't ask rbasak
[15:54] <cpaelzer> I believe in cross team endoresments carrying more weight
[15:54] <rbasak> cpaelzer is a colleague of mine. It's a pain that he isn't a core dev. Every so often we get blocked by something because he can't upload (or change a seed or whatever). Every time I've unblocked by sponsoring, cpaelzer's proposal has been correct and diligently formed.
[15:55] <sil2100> cpaelzer: I'll maybe ask the usual question - how would becoming a core dev make things easier for you and others?
[15:55] <sil2100> Oh, I see rbasak partially answered that ;)
[15:55] <cpaelzer> sil2100: well he has to some extend
[15:55] <cpaelzer> the point is - I'm not in foundations and upload core-dev things every day - surely not
[15:55] <cpaelzer> but
[15:56] <cpaelzer> growing into more and more ubuntu experience it happens more often to be blocked on a core-dev thing here and there
[15:56] <cpaelzer> enought to qualify for the application we concluded a while ago
[15:57] <nacc> I can also add mine (sorry, was afk for a moment) (my endorsement for cpaelzer)
[15:58] <rbasak> I've been asking cpaelzer to keep a list of blocked-because-not-core-dev things. IIRC, seed changes, bind9 and samba at least?
[15:58] <cpaelzer> I tracked 10 direct uploads from 24th March to 7th july that would have been core-dev tasks
[15:58] <cpaelzer> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25418221/
[15:58] <cpaelzer> I might have forgotten one
[15:58] <cpaelzer> but that is on the line to be often enough to kind of bottle-neck us more than it feels good
[15:58] <cpaelzer> which is the pain rbasak mentions
[15:59] <cpaelzer> and in any way this isn't about blindly pushing uploads all the time - I think we are all over that - it is about being able to do so when needed
[15:59] <cpaelzer> and in terms of extra core dev tasks like piloting I'm already active (yet on the smaller subset so far)
[15:59] <rbasak> So I'd probably best abstain from this vote especially as everyone else is here. As I work with cpaelzer closely I know him well and so have no questions.
[16:00] <rbasak> I'm happy to answer questions in respect of my endorsement of him of course.
[16:00] <BenC> rbalint: If you were to vote, I assume it woukd be +1?
[16:00] <BenC> *rbasak
[16:01] <rbasak> BenC: indeed
[16:01] <sil2100> rbasak: I don't think you should abstain, there's no rule saying this is a bad thing - you have good understanding of his work so I don't see any reason not to
[16:01] <sil2100> I wouldn't like people to think about votes being 'biased' or something
[16:01] <rbasak> sil2100: I'll vote if needed to break a tie or achieve quroum.
[16:02] <sil2100> Makes sense
[16:02] <sil2100> cpaelzer: besides the work you mentioned, did you have any opportunity to do out-of-team work on +1 maintenance tasks?
[16:03] <rbasak> Technically I suppose that's not abstaining at all because by definition if I only vote to break a tie that's the only case my vote would matter anyway. Never mind!
[16:03] <sil2100> Like, helping with trensitions, resolving NBSes?
[16:03] <sil2100> *transitions
[16:03] <cpaelzer> ah thanks, I was about to ask :-)
[16:04] <cpaelzer> in smaller parts I meet transitions in the virt stack every cycle, but havn't pushed a full scale transition like a toolchain
[16:04] <cpaelzer> I worked with nacc postgresql
[16:04] <cpaelzer> which will likely next cycle meet such a transition
[16:04] <sil2100> Ok
[16:05] <cpaelzer> NBS I met in some sense
[16:05] <sil2100> cpaelzer: while we're at it, do you know what an NBS is and how one can potentially resolve it?
[16:05] <cpaelzer> the one that lib versions disappear - that was a big issue in DPDK (crazy soname handling - bleieve me)
[16:05] <cpaelzer> the outcome of that was that I eventually drove a change upstream that allows downstreams to define a major ABI (a bit like libboost)
[16:06] <cpaelzer> that is not adapted by Debian and Ubuntu and it seems other Distros soon
[16:07] <cpaelzer> sil2100: on your follow on questison now ...
[16:07] <cpaelzer> while resolving often has a lot more details, the "main" part is to get all rdeps updated and no more depending on the old one
[16:07] <cpaelzer> NBS can be more than soname drops thou
[16:08] <cpaelzer> I didn't face the upstream-rename case yet
[16:08] <cpaelzer> in most cases eventually the NBS has to be removed
[16:09] <cpaelzer> to avoid carrying an unmaintained old version along
[16:09] <cpaelzer> and avoid people still e.g. building against it
[16:09] <cpaelzer> but as I said many things depend on the case
[16:10] <cpaelzer> in general I do not pretend to know *all* things a core-dev does, but "asking when you are not sure" is a wise habit no matter of the approved devloper level
[16:10] <cpaelzer> there always will be one extra thing you haven't seen/done before
[16:10] <sil2100> cpaelzer: good enough for me, thanks ;)
[16:10]  * sil2100 is in another meeting now so context-switching
[16:10] <cpaelzer> sorry, didn't want to drag this over the allocated time
[16:11] <cpaelzer> other questions?
[16:12] <cpaelzer> I hope we didn't loose all others due to passing the hour ... oO
[16:12] <bdmurray> not from me
[16:12] <sil2100> Ok, any other questions? Or should we move to voting?
[16:15] <sil2100> I guess not!
[16:15] <sil2100> Let's vote
[16:15] <sil2100> #vote Grant cpaelzer core-dev
[16:15] <meetingology> Please vote on: Grant cpaelzer core-dev
[16:15] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[16:15] <bdmurray> +1
[16:15] <meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
[16:16] <micahg> +1
[16:16] <meetingology> +1 received from micahg
[16:19] <rbasak> BenC: ?
[16:19] <bdmurray> sil2100: did you want to vote?
[16:20] <sil2100> +1 (I'm a bit worried about the not much all-around-Ubuntu work, but his experience and work so far is sufficient for core-dev rights anyway)
[16:20] <meetingology> +1 (I'm a bit worried about the not much all-around-Ubuntu work, but his experience and work so far is sufficient for core-dev rights anyway) received from sil2100
[16:20]  * micahg just wanted to add a reminder to use -v when uploading merges to get the full changelog diff
[16:20] <sil2100> (sorry, hard being at two meetings at once)
[16:21] <cpaelzer> micahg: fair, that was a "personal lessons" learned on double uploads to SRUs about 2 months ago
[16:22] <cpaelzer> in general on any fault - no one is perfect let me know and I'll adapt as good as possible
[16:23]  * rbasak files bug 1713530
[16:23] <cpaelzer> micahg: I think I see your point on merges in that regard - to list the Debian-changes in between - is that correct?
[16:23] <micahg> cpaelzer: yep
[16:24] <cpaelzer> rbasak: you are good I can close my current window reporting just that :-)
[16:24] <rbasak> :-)
[16:24] <rbasak> IMHO the fact that uploaders have to remember all these arbitrary rules is a problem :)
[16:25] <cpaelzer> I add an example to the bugs that matches the case micahg mentioned
[16:25] <rbasak> Our git workflow "knows" what's going on so should be able to do it automatically now I think.
[16:25] <tsimonq2> rbasak: true, again, documentation :P
[16:25] <micahg> yeah, it would be nice if the tools did it
[16:25] <cpaelzer> documention is what is ignored or forgottern
[16:25] <cpaelzer> tools win clearly
[16:25] <nacc> cpaelzer: rbasak: thank you
[16:25] <rbasak> BenC: vote?
[16:26] <micahg> well, I'm in favor of the people knowing and the tools doing, it's good to know what's going on behind the scenes, at least what's directly related to what one is doing
[16:27] <micahg> otherwise, one can't know if the tool is doing the right thing :)
[16:27] <rbasak> In general I agree. In this case, it's an implementation detail though. I don't know exactly how Launchpad or britney is implemented either.
[16:28] <rbasak> In time, I'd like to see dput replaced with git. Completely.  At that point, debian/changelog would be moot, and so -v would be also.
[16:28] <rbasak> Until then, I agree that uploaders need to know these things. But I'm not proud of that fact :-/
[16:29] <cpaelzer> I hope we didn't loose BenC :-/
[16:29] <rbasak> I said I'd vote to achieve quorum if needed.
[16:29] <rbasak> If we assume that quorum is still four (I'm not sure it is but that's another discussion), and we appear to have lost BenC, then I can vote to settle this.
[16:31] <sil2100> rbasak: please do
[16:31] <sil2100> I guess he's out ;)
[16:31] <rbasak> +1
[16:31] <meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
[16:31] <sil2100> (I'd assume so since 30 minutes over the meeting time might mean that)
[16:32] <sil2100> #endvote
[16:32] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant cpaelzer core-dev
[16:32] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[16:32] <meetingology> Motion carried
[16:33] <sil2100> cpaelzer: congratulations! (took longer than we expected ;p)
[16:33] <cpaelzer> Thank you!
[16:33] <sil2100> Since I'm handling tsimonq2, I'll pick up this cpaelzer as well as it's a quick thing to do
[16:33] <sil2100> #action sil2100 to add cpaelzer to core-dev and send announcements
[16:33] <meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 to add cpaelzer to core-dev and send announcements
[16:33] <sil2100> #topic AOB
[16:33] <tsimonq2> Thanks again :D
[16:33] <sil2100> So I guess let's just quickly touch base on our DMB expired members
[16:34] <sil2100> We have 2 seats free and 3 candidates, we need to set up the vote mechanism
[16:34] <sil2100> Could someone take care of that
[16:34] <sil2100> ?
[16:35] <sil2100> rbasak, bdmurray, micahg: ^ ?
[16:36] <sil2100> I originally wanted to volunteer, but I see now that I have a bit much for this week, would be worried that it'd get delayed because of that
[16:37] <bdmurray> sil2100: I can fit it in
[16:37] <sil2100> bdmurray: that would be excellent, thanks!
[16:38] <sil2100> From other things: please take a look at Balint's e-mail application
[16:38] <sil2100> (hasting here since we're past our meeting time)
[16:39] <sil2100> Ok, anything else or can we wrap?
[16:39] <sil2100> WRAP! BLAM
[16:39] <sil2100> #endmeeting
[16:39] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 28 16:39:51 2017 UTC.
[16:39] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-08-28-15.05.moin.txt
[16:39] <sil2100> Thanks everyone!
[16:40] <tsimonq2> Congrats cpaelzer :)
[16:40] <tsimonq2> Thanks!
[16:40] <sil2100> It's so nice having such lively meetings
[16:40] <sil2100> o/
[16:40] <sil2100> tsimonq2, cpaelzer: I'll try to handle your permission-addition today still, but in case I get context switched this might slide till tomorrow
[16:41] <sil2100> Hope that's ok
[16:41] <tsimonq2> sil2100: Ok, thanks!
[16:43] <micahg> thanks sil2100 for running that marathon meeting
[16:45] <tyhicks> fyi, the security team meeting was moved to #ubuntu-meeting-2 if anyone is here for that
[16:49] <rbasak> tyhicks: thank you for sorting that out
[16:49] <tyhicks> no problem


[12:57] <lamont> since hppa seems to have a challenge or 3 in that area...
[02:56] <mkrufky> i just found the ubuntu tree on kernel.org web interface 8-)
[03:34] <mkrufky> BenC: here's a patch for you ;-)
[03:34] <mkrufky> http://pastebin.com/401548
[03:55] <BenC> lamont-away: they need a MODULE_DEVICE_TABLE
[03:59] <BenC> mkrufky: nice patch :)
[05:48] <lamont-away> BenC: tulip has a MODULE_DEVICE_TABLE... now I just need to figure out what glue is missing... :-(
[06:28] <fabbione> (you still need the target dir)
[06:28] <fabbione> lamont-away: i use tulip i think...
[06:30] <fabbione> hm no
[06:30] <fabbione> lamont-away: there are 3 bits required for hotplugging iirc
[06:30] <fabbione> the MODULE_DEVICE_TABLE
[06:31] <fabbione> is one of them..
[06:32] <fabbione> yeah
[06:32] <fabbione> you also need something like:
[06:32] <fabbione> static struct pci_driver vortex_driver = {
[06:32] <fabbione>         .name           = "3c59x",
[06:32] <fabbione>         .probe          = vortex_init_one,
[06:32] <fabbione>         .remove         = __devexit_p(vortex_remove_one),
[06:32] <fabbione>         .id_table       = vortex_pci_tbl,
[06:33] <fabbione> #ifdef CONFIG_PM
[06:33] <fabbione>         .suspend        = vortex_suspend,
[06:33] <fabbione>         .resume         = vortex_resume,
[06:33] <fabbione> #endif
[06:33] <fabbione> };
[06:34] <fabbione> but they are all there
[06:34] <fabbione> for the tulip driver
[06:34] <lamont-away> right. hence it's further up, where arch-specific stuff can get in the way
[06:38] <fabbione> lamont-away: is it only network drivers that don't autoload?
[06:38] <fabbione> or only specifically the tulip?
[06:41] <lamont-away> fabbione: dunno - haven 't really tested things that much yet..
[06:41] <fabbione> oh ok
[06:44] <fabbione> lamont-away: btw.. do i get it right that the hppa guys did (finally) export the hppa tree in git for main inclusion?
[06:45] <fabbione> because with the new git approach we will need to keep the hppa patch still separate :/
[06:45] <fabbione> and it sorts of sucks :P
[06:50] <lamont-away> fabbione: dunno
[06:50] <lamont-away> I do know that I need to sleep, though. :-(
[06:56] <fabbione> eheh good night lamont :)
[12:39] <slomo> hi... can we get the bcm43xx (airport extreme, etc) driver for dapper? you can get it at http://bcm43xx.berlios.de/ but i don't know how usable it is currently... i'll get a airport extreme from a friend next week to test it
[12:39] <fabbione> slomo: file an enanchment bug on bugzilla please
[12:40] <slomo> ok
[12:42] <slomo> filed against linux-meta?
[12:43] <fabbione> no
[12:43] <fabbione> linux
[12:46] <slomo> ok... #18279
[01:58] <mjg59> slomo: It's not currently usable
[01:58] <mjg59> It gives you access to the registers on the card, it doesn't control the radio yet
[02:00] <slomo> mjg59: ok, good to know :)
[02:07] <Lathiat> slomo: it doesnt actually work yet
[02:07] <Lathiat> at lesat
[02:07] <Lathiat> it didnt a couple days ago
[02:08] <Lathiat> yes
[02:08] <Lathiat> note the big fat notice on the homepage :)
[02:08] <Lathiat> i think their close tho, so might happen dapper timeframe
[07:09] <botein> hi
[07:17] <botein> Will there be a openafs-module in restricted-modules?
[07:36] <infinity> Erm, why would it be in restricted-modules?... OpenAFS is free.
[07:37] <infinity> See openafs-modules-source in universe.
[07:42] <botein> mmh. ok. Will it be in the regular modules?
[09:28] <dilinger> i'd like to get it in the kernel proper
[09:42] <infinity> I assume from the existence of a working "modules-source" package, that it's completely isolated, out-of-tree stuff, so adding it to the kernel build wouldn't disrupt anything else?
[09:42] <infinity> If so, I don't know if I see the point in "bringing it up", just push a patch to BenC.
[09:43] <infinity> Push said patch NOW, while he's preparing the first 2.6.14-pre uploads, and we'll get testing before UBZ starts, if all goes well.
[09:45] <dilinger> well...
[09:45] <dilinger> 1.4.0rc7 is supposed to be the last release before 1.4.0 proper
[09:45] <dilinger> dunno if it's worth getting testing of the RC before UBZ
[09:46] <infinity> Right, so that seem a good fit to team up with 2.6.14-rc :)
[09:46] <dilinger> it's certainly worth starting to work on separating stuff out now, though
[09:46] <dilinger> the module source package includes a lot of crap, i think only like 10% of it is relevant to the actual kernel module
[09:47] <infinity> Woo.
[10:09] <Lathiat> dilinger: 'kernel proper' ?
[10:09] <Lathiat> openafs is !gpl compatible (at least so i read)
[10:33] <dilinger> Lathiat: i mean the kernel package proper :P
[10:34] <Lathiat> ah
[10:34] <dilinger> say, has anyone managed to get breezy booting off sx8 devices?
[10:35] <dilinger> the installer doesn't recognize it as a disk, and neither grub nor lilo seem to know how to handle it


[00:27] <xnox> PPA builders seem to have odd balancing: it's equal split between i386 & amd64, yet there are more jobs that are run on i386-only
[11:39] <cjwatson> xnox: We rebalance manually based on queue length
[11:40] <cjwatson> xnox: It's not even a little bit static :-)
[11:41] <cjwatson> xnox: (The correct fix is builder pooling, so that the multiple-architecture-capable builders just suck down whichever build is next regardless of architecture)
[11:45] <wgrant> Hopefully xnox won't see that for at least a couple of days :P
[11:46] <cjwatson> as in because he's hopefully recovering from DC action last night?
[11:46] <wgrant> Indeed.
[11:46] <cjwatson> I read the IR, though it kind of petered out
[11:47] <wgrant> He ended up leaving around 6 hours ago.
[11:47] <cjwatson> Sounds grim
[14:54] <xnox> yeah, it wasn't the most efficient visit =] but it was fun.


[07:08] <Kilos> morning peeps
[07:32] <MooDoo> morning
[07:33] <Kilos> hi MooDoo  :)
[08:40] <elacheche> salam MooDoo :)
[08:44] <MooDoo> wa-Alaykum elacheche
[08:44] <Kilos> whew
[08:44] <MooDoo> whew?
[08:44] <Kilos> you also eat dates?
[08:45] <MooDoo> dates?
[08:45] <Kilos> elacheche  lives on dates and camel milk
[08:45]  * Kilos hides
[08:45] <Kilos> MooDoo  where are you?
[08:45] <MooDoo> ah no i don't eat dates lol i just knew what salam meant but wasn't hundred percent sure of the correct response lol
[08:45] <MooDoo> Kilos: UK
[08:46] <Kilos> lol
[08:46] <Kilos> i always tease him
[08:46] <MooDoo> heh
[08:46] <Kilos> dholbach late today
[08:49] <elacheche> MooDoo, You're not the guy from Sudan?
[08:52] <MooDoo> elacheche: no sorry, nottingham uk :D
[08:55] <elacheche> Oups, sorry MooDoo x(
[08:56] <MooDoo> elacheche: not a problem :D  I hope the responce was correct any way :D
[09:00] <elacheche> yep
[09:02] <MooDoo> :D yay