[01:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gcc-9-cross-mipsen [ppc64el] (focal-proposed/universe) [3+c1ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[02:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Packageset: 6799 entries have been added or removed
[03:05] <handsome_feng> Hi, could someone in release team take a look at those ukui FFEs when you have time before Beta freeze? LP: #1868571 LP: #1868688 , Thanks in advance!
[05:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gcc-9-cross-mipsen [amd64] (focal-proposed/universe) [3+c1ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[06:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted gcc-9-cross-mipsen [amd64] (focal-proposed) [3+c1ubuntu1]
[06:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted gcc-9-cross-mipsen [ppc64el] (focal-proposed) [3+c1ubuntu1]
[07:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-gcp [amd64] (focal-proposed/main) [5.4.0-1006.6] (core, kernel)
[07:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gcc-defaults-mipsen [amd64] (focal-proposed/universe) [1.186.1] (no packageset)
[07:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted gcc-defaults-mipsen [amd64] (focal-proposed) [1.186.1]
[08:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-gcp [amd64] (focal-proposed) [5.4.0-1006.6]
[08:50] <seb128> could someone review/merge https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/britney/updated-graphite-version/+merge/381225
[08:51] <seb128> updating the i386 graphite hint to the build1 upload done recently
[09:07] <apw> seb128, is that not a candidate for force-reset-test ?
[09:08] <apw> seb128, as i assume we expect it to be bad until it gets better (which may not be expected)
[09:18] <seb128> apw, probably but I don't know how force-reset-test works so I did what I know :-)
[09:19] <seb128> apw, if you want to do the right thing (and tell me how I request a force-reset next itme) that would be welcome
[09:20] <apw> seb128, so it is the exact same syntax so "force-reset-test graphite2/1.3.13-11/i386"
[09:21] <apw> meaning this version marks a new baseline of always-failed, so fail is now acceptable until it succeeds
[09:21] <seb128> ah ok, I didn't know that was in the hints, I though that was a command to give to the state machine or something
[09:21] <seb128> apw, do you want me to update the mp?
[09:21] <apw> seb128, no it is a very new hint type, sure
[09:22] <apw> any kicking-the-can scenario should be consisdered for this
[09:24] <seb128> right, that makes sense
[09:26] <Laney> juliank: weren't you going to write down some documentation for the hint types somewhere?
[09:26] <seb128> are those thin documented... thanks Laney :)
[09:27] <juliank> Laney: hmm yeah
[09:31] <seb128> apw, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/britney/updated-graphite-version/+merge/381225 updated to be a foirce-reset-test now
[09:41] <seb128> apw, thanks, can you also merge for me? I don't have the right to push there
[09:42] <apw> seb128, done
[10:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-azure [amd64] (focal-proposed/main) [5.4.0-1007.7] (core, kernel)
[10:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-oracle [amd64] (focal-proposed/main) [5.4.0-1006.6] (core, kernel)
[10:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-azure [amd64] (focal-proposed) [5.4.0-1007.7]
[10:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-oracle [amd64] (focal-proposed) [5.4.0-1006.6]
[10:10] <seb128> apw, thanks
[10:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed [ppc64el] (bionic-proposed/main) [4.15.0-94.95] (core, kernel)
[10:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-azure [amd64] (xenial-proposed/main) [4.15.0-1077.82] (kernel)
[10:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed [amd64] (bionic-proposed/main) [4.15.0-94.95] (core, kernel)
[10:41] <doko> Reverse-Depends
[10:41] <doko> * ruby-marisa                   (for libruby2.5)
[10:41] <doko> * ruby-svn                      (for libruby2.5)
[10:41] <doko> * ruby-xapian                   (for libruby2.5)
[10:41] <doko> kanashiro: ^^^
[11:07] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-azure [amd64] (xenial-proposed) [4.15.0-1077.82]
[12:01] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-gcp [amd64] (xenial-proposed/main) [4.15.0-1060.64] (kernel)
[12:03] <kanashiro> doko, those packages are still in proposed, I'll check the autopkgtest failures
[12:27] <kanashiro> doko, src:marisa and src:xapian-bindings just need to retrigger autopkgtest (they were executed against ruby2.5 not ruby2.7), but src:subversion is now blocked because of a src:mercurial failure in armhf
[12:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-hwe [amd64] (xenial-proposed/main) [4.15.0-94.95~16.04.1] (kernel)
[12:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-hwe [ppc64el] (xenial-proposed/main) [4.15.0-94.95~16.04.1] (kernel)
[12:28] <doko> kanashiro: mercurial fails way too often
[12:33] <kanashiro> doko, already requested retriggers for all of them
[12:46] <ahasenack> hi release team, anyone around? I have an FFe for libcbor, which is being MIRed, and which, together with libfido2 (already uploaded), will unblock openssh
[12:46] <ahasenack> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libcbor/+bug/1868609
[12:55] <ahasenack> sil2100: apw: Laney: if you have a moment please
[13:25] <sil2100> ahasenack: I'll take a look
[13:51] <handsome_feng> Hi, release team, could you take a look at those ukui FFEs when you have time? LP: #1868571 LP: #1868688 , Thanks and sorry for bother.
[13:52] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New source: python-django-pyscss2 (focal-proposed/primary) [3.0.0-0ubuntu1]
[13:52] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New source: python-pyscss2 (focal-proposed/primary) [2.0.0-0ubuntu1]
[14:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-gcp [amd64] (xenial-proposed) [4.15.0-1060.64]
[14:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-hwe [ppc64el] (xenial-proposed) [4.15.0-94.95~16.04.1]
[14:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-hwe [amd64] (xenial-proposed) [4.15.0-94.95~16.04.1]
[14:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-oracle [amd64] (bionic-proposed/main) [4.15.0-1037.41] (kernel)
[14:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-oracle [amd64] (xenial-proposed/main) [4.15.0-1037.41~16.04.1] (kernel)
[14:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-oracle [amd64] (xenial-proposed) [4.15.0-1037.41~16.04.1]
[14:57] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-oracle [amd64] (bionic-proposed) [4.15.0-1037.41]
[14:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed [ppc64el] (bionic-proposed) [4.15.0-94.95]
[14:58] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed [amd64] (bionic-proposed) [4.15.0-94.95]
[15:03] <cpaelzer> apw: sil2100: stgraber: Laney: I wanted to ask if one of you would have time for the qemu portion of the FFe in 1866866
[15:03] <cpaelzer> jfh: ^^ FYI
[15:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-gke-4.15 [amd64] (bionic-proposed/main) [4.15.0-1057.60] (no packageset)
[15:05] <jfh> cpaelzer: I agree, since time is progressing, it would be good to get a decision from the release team on the affected qemu component in LP 1866866
[15:07] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-gke-4.15 [amd64] (bionic-proposed) [4.15.0-1057.60]
[15:26] <stgraber> so my personal opinion is that this is way too many changes way too late and that we should not do this
[15:26] <stgraber> but if another release team member wants to go through all the changes and convince themselves that it's safe, I won't stand in the way
[15:39]  * rbasak is looking at the containerd SRU in the Bionic queue
[15:51] <juliank> Laney: Rebuilding focal adt images
[15:51] <Laney> why?
[15:51] <juliank> Laney: because they had an issue and were not rebuild for two weeks, and cause all sort of kmod errors
[15:51] <juliank> Laney: I gotta check why
[15:52] <Laney> yeah, please debug why the daily script isn't working
[15:52] <juliank> Laney: I know we created two servers with the same name, and then it did not know which one to use :)
[15:53] <juliank> Laney: maybe it failed two weeks ago and did not clean up the failed instances
[15:53] <juliank> we'll see
[15:53] <Laney> if that's the case then some robustification is needed
[15:56] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted containerd [source] (bionic-proposed) [1.3.3-0ubuntu1~18.04.2]
[16:03] <jfh> stgraber: well, I agree that this is late - especially the qemu part - but that is the reason why there is this FFe at all
[16:03] <jfh> the kernel and the s390-tools side of things are done - now qemu is the missing piece ...
[16:04] <jfh> discussions on that started early - but it unfortunately took a while on getting it accepted - the almost all of the ocde is arch specific and is not active by default, an opt in is needed
[16:05] <juliank> Laney: So build-adt-image-all-clouds exits with 0 even if all builds failed
[16:05] <juliank> Laney: That's not super helpful
[16:06] <juliank> Laney: And I'm not sure the create-nova image thingy is failing correctly
[16:06] <juliank> Laney: Certainly setup-testbed is failing, I guess the | ssh pipes exits with 1, and the script is set -e?
[16:06] <juliank> so this needs two things
[16:07] <juliank> (1) build-adt-image-all-clouds needs to fail on failure
[16:07] <juliank> (2) the other thing needs to clean up instances it creates on exit
[16:10] <juliank> I guess for (1) maybe it could just check if the images it's supposed to create exist when it finishes
[16:11] <Laney> I did do some robustness fixes in the wip/mojo-juju-2 branch but I'm not sure how applicable they would be to master
[16:11] <Laney> there it's driven by a systemd unit called 'ensure-adt-image@'
[16:12] <rbalint> ubuntu-archive, please unblock kodi: LP: #1868499
[16:13] <juliank> Laney: do we have monitoring for that yet?
[16:13] <Laney> for stg?
[16:14] <juliank> because um, we want to get notified about such failures I guess
[16:14] <Laney> or for build-adt-image on prod?
[16:14] <juliank> stg
[16:14] <Laney> ah, no, but as it happens I actually prodded the IS ticket about that today!
[16:14] <juliank> like, it's nice there's a service that fails, but if nothing tells us it's failing we are where we are now :)
[16:15] <juliank> ah good
[16:16] <Laney> If they do what I suggested then we'll get an ubuntu-release.kpi.ubuntu.com grafana thingy to upload metrics into
[16:21] <kanashiro> doko, ahasenack triggered the mercurial autopkgtest for me to make subversion migrate but it still fails, could you please take a look at it since you are the last uploader?
[16:21] <kanashiro> marisa and xapian-bindings already migrated to the release pocket btw
[16:31] <juliank> doko, Laney so we are up-to-date wrt autopkgtest images everywhere except amd64 on lgw which exceeded quotas
[16:32] <juliank> I'll try to run create-nova-image-new-release manually
[16:47] <juliank> take #2
[16:47] <juliank> ugh
[16:47] <juliank> running with -x now
[16:47] <juliank> it failed _somewhere_
[16:49] <juliank> with -x, i should at least know which line it stopped running at
[16:55] <juliank> heisenbug it seems
[16:57] <juliank> doko, Laney images should be fixed now
[18:31] <sforshee> doko, mwhudson: I'm seeing the glibc pwd/tst-getpw test fail in autopkgtest on arm64/armhf, is this a known issue?
[18:50] <ahasenack> ubuntu-archive: hi, if you could please let libcbor0.6 through, it's a new soname, hence the NEW package. FFe bug linked in the changelog
[19:00] <mwhudson> sforshee: i don't think so
[19:03] <sforshee> mwhudson: I'm seeing it when testing the focal-proposed kernel, but looking at the test I think it's unlikely to be a kernel regression
[19:04] <mwhudson> sforshee: well this version of glibc has passed several times: https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/glibc/focal/arm64
[19:05] <sforshee> mwhudson: yes, I saw. I tried it on an arm64 box too and it passed with the -proposed kernel, so I'm not sure what to think about it
[19:06] <sforshee> unless it's some weird setup in autopkgtest where there's a user defined for all the ids it's testing
[19:11] <mwhudson> that would be pretty eccentric
[19:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New sync: gcc-10-cross-mipsen (focal-proposed/primary) [2+c1]
[19:12] <mwhudson> original exit status 223
[19:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted gcc-10-cross-mipsen [sync] (focal-proposed) [2+c1]
[19:13] <mwhudson> i wonder if the failing uid checks are setting errno
[19:15] <mwhudson> because 65535 - 30ish valid uids modulo 256==223 is kinda plausible
[19:16] <mwhudson> if only the test logged what errno was :)
[19:20] <mwhudson> sforshee: not sure how to debug this at this distance
[19:21] <mwhudson> sforshee: i guess i can patch the test to be more verbose, upload it, wait for it to build, run the test against my ppa...
[19:21] <mwhudson> alternatively might be able to reproduce in canonistack
[19:21] <sforshee> mwhudson: yeah, I was hoping to be able to reproduce it but no such luck
[19:23] <mwhudson> sforshee: certain people can run things in production infrastructure, i'm not one of them though
[19:24] <sforshee> Laney might be able to help
[19:24] <mwhudson> Laney, vorlon, juliank, none of them are around now i expect
[19:26] <bryce> ubuntu-archive: php7.3 can removed at your convenience - LP: #1869087.  I examined the rdepends and unless I'm doing it wrong there appear to be no rdepends remaining.  I suspect it's good to go at this point.
[20:01] <doko> bryce: ta, nice!  can I pester you about the php-mockery autopkg test failures?
[20:05] <doko> php7.3 removed
[20:08] <bryce> doko, thanks, glad to see that gone
[20:09] <doko> could you look at php-mockery?
[20:09] <bryce> doko, hm, what does it need?
[20:10] <doko> ENOCLUE: http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/p/php-mockery/focal/arm64
[20:10] <doko> on all archs
[20:10] <doko> Class 'DOMDocument' not found
[20:13] <bryce> doko, offhand that sounds like one of the issues that comes up from the phpunit transition.  I'd suggest retriggering php-mockery with phpunit/8.5.2-1ubuntu1 and sphinx/1.8.5-7ubuntu1
[20:13] <bryce> and maybe php-redis/5.1.1+4.3.0-1 too, looks like that's also in proposed
[20:18] <bryce> doko, if you'd like I can do those retriggers for you?
[20:25] <doko> bryce: now done
[20:36] <ahasenack> doko: are you able to help with a i386 badpkg issue? ruby-zip became a _all.deb in 2.0.0, and it's now failing i386 autopkgtests
[20:36] <ahasenack> we already edded Multi-Arch: foreign to it
[20:36] <ahasenack> no go in the bileto tries
[20:37] <ahasenack> https://bileto.ubuntu.com/excuses/3994/focal.html
[20:37] <ahasenack> is it a case for an all badtest on i386?
[20:37] <doko> ahasenack: no, requires ubuntu-release people
[20:37] <ahasenack> ok
[20:37] <ahasenack> kanashiro: ^
[20:38] <ahasenack> kanashiro: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-release/+members#active
[20:38] <kanashiro> all the packages under ruby-zip in excuses page are ignoring failures in i386
[20:39] <ahasenack> kanashiro: maybe prepare a branch in the meantime
[20:40] <ahasenack> to take advantage of timezone
[20:40] <kanashiro> ahasenack, makes sense
[20:46] <ahasenack> kanashiro: do you know where to do that?
[20:47] <kanashiro> ahasenack, hints-ubuntu repo, right? I just need to learn bzr again :)
[20:47] <ahasenack> I know that feeling
[20:47] <ahasenack> there is always a catch, the mp target is not the default
[20:48] <ahasenack> I always go back to an old mp to check
[20:48] <ahasenack> kanashiro: https://code.launchpad.net/~ahasenack/britney/hint-mysql8-arm64/+merge/379582
[20:48] <kanashiro> ahasenack, thanks, appreciated :)
[20:49] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Packageset: 6799 entries have been added or removed
[20:49] <ahasenack> if the diff is huge, the target is wrong :)
[20:50] <kanashiro> got it
[20:50] <ahasenack> bryce: was that php7.3?
[20:50] <bryce> ahasenack, sorry?
[20:50] <ahasenack> 6799 entries
[20:51] <ahasenack> don't panic :)
[20:51] <bryce> ah yeah lots of php7.3 packages sprouted daisies today
[20:51] <ahasenack> kanashiro: add a link to our bileto run
[20:52] <ahasenack> kanashiro: I'll leave it be
[20:52] <ahasenack> https://bileto.ubuntu.com/excuses/3994/focal.html
[20:52] <ahasenack> and explain we added multi-arch foreign in that run
[20:52] <kanashiro> ahasenack, ok
[20:52] <ahasenack> checking puppet now
[20:53] <ahasenack> I think it's still the old run
[20:53] <ahasenack> yeah, from 1553 utc
[21:11] <Eickmeyer> Archive Admins: I have an entirely NEW package in queue for Focal that has been sitting for about 3 days now. With Beta fast approaching, can this get pushed though?
[21:11] <kanashiro> ahasenack, here is the MP: https://code.launchpad.net/~lucaskanashiro/britney/hint-ruby-zip-i386/+merge/381275
[21:16] <juliank> sforshee: i retried against release pocket glibc, maybe it fails there too, it's possible something else regressed
[21:16] <juliank> sforshee: Unfortunately I'm out until Monday, so I won't be able to do much else
[21:20] <RAOF> Eickmeyer: that's dragonfly-reverb?
[21:20] <Eickmeyer> RAOF: Yes.
[21:20] <RAOF> I'll look at it this morning.
[21:21] <Eickmeyer> Sounds good. :)
[21:30] <ahasenack> sil2100: upstream libcbor released 0.6.1 with the soname change we adopted in 0.6.0
[21:31] <ahasenack> I'll see to it tomorrow
[21:31] <Ukikie> xnox: Thanks for asking #debian-ftp about the license issue.
[22:00] <mwhudson> https://code.launchpad.net/~mwhudson/autopkgtest-cloud/+git/autopkgtest-cloud/+merge/381277 if there's a release team person around
[22:57] <RAOF> Eickmeyer: Why are you never uploading simple packages? 😛
[22:58] <Eickmeyer> RAOF: Ha! Believe it or not, this was one of the "simpler" ones. :P
[22:59] <Eickmeyer> You should've seen me a year ago with lsp-plugins.
[23:01] <RAOF> Maybe could the audio upstreams embed fewer fonts as strings in their C++ source files?
[23:03] <Eickmeyer> Sure would be nice, but I think people are paranoid about not having a "consistent" look by relying on a font as a dependency.
[23:04] <RAOF> Because I'm not sure whether doing that with an OFL font actually passes copyright muster?
[23:05] <Eickmeyer> I'm pretty sure it does. Not the first time NotoSans has distributed with a package.
[23:05] <RAOF> (One of the OFL clauses is “you cannot distribute a derivative under any other license”, which might be problematic)
[23:05] <RAOF> Could they just, you know, copy the font file to a known location and then load that?
[23:05] <RAOF> 🤷
[23:06] <Eickmeyer> I think when it comes to that, a derivitive of the font isn't what's being distributed. It's the actual font.
[23:06] <RAOF> It's absolutely clear that distributing NotoSans-Regular.ttf is fine by the license.
[23:07] <RAOF> It's less clear that taking NotoSans-Regular.ttf, encoding it as a char const*, embedding it in the output and then distributing that output is fine by the license.
[23:08] <RAOF> (Also, NotoSans_Regular.ttf.cpp is not exactly the preferred form of modification 😛)
[23:09] <Eickmeyer> Are they actually modifying the font itself?
[23:11] <RAOF> I don't know. I don't know how they've generated NotoSans_Regular.ttf.cpp (it does not appear to be generated by any of the build scripts?)
[23:12] <Eickmeyer> As I look at the file, it seems to just be the font renamed, but I could be wrong.
[23:12] <RAOF> Unless you mean modified in the copyright sense, then, yes, they have: they've taken the binary bytes of the .ttf file and encoded them as `0x…` hex in the cpp file.
[23:13] <RAOF> The cpp file is undoubtedly a derivative of the font file.
[23:13] <Eickmeyer> That's not good. I'll have to inform upstream.
[23:15] <RAOF> Well, “undoubtedly” is maybe a bit strong. I strongly suspect that it is, but I don't know, because I don't know what it's content is, other than 2MB of char const*.
[23:15] <RAOF> I'm just assuming based on the filename and variable name that it's an encoding of NotoSans-Regular.ttf ;)
[23:15] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, hard to tell.
[23:16] <Eickmeyer> I'm looking at their github issues to see if they have an open/closed issue about it, and there doesn't appear to be.
[23:16] <Eickmeyer> I can ask someone.
[23:18] <RAOF> I'll keep reviewing the package, but I'd need to ask around on the team before accepting it with this font weirdness.
[23:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: what-is-python [amd64] (focal-proposed/main) [3] (no packageset)
[23:22] <RAOF> Huh. Why do the binary packages Provide: lv2-plugin, vst-plugin, etc?
[23:23] <Eickmeyer> RAOF: Because they are lv2 plugins and vst plugins. That can be removed, if necessary. You'd find that common in a lot of audio plugin packages.
[23:24] <Eickmeyer> Also, a bit of an answer on the Noto Sans issue: it might be actually Apache licensed?
[23:24] <Eickmeyer> RAOF: per https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Noto+Sans
[23:26] <Eickmeyer> RAOF: Here's how the .cpp file is generate: `xxd -i common/NotoSans/NotoSans-Regular.ttf`
[23:26] <Eickmeyer> We could, theoretically, patch to remove the file and regenerate it using debian/rules, but I feel like that's reinventing the wheel.
[23:27] <RAOF> We'd only do that if we were going to use the archive version of NotoSans rather than the shipped version.
[23:28] <Eickmeyer> Is that necessary?
[23:32] <Eickmeyer> RAOF: Per the Linux Audio Developers (#lad): xxd would qualify as a rather strict form of not being modified, it almost modifies the font data less than including it in an email attachment.
[23:38] <RAOF> It doesn't really matter whether or not the font is modified; the OFL is perfectly happy for you to modify the font.
[23:38] <Eickmeyer> Ok
[23:38] <RAOF> The question is whether embedding the font in the binary this way makes the binary a derivative of the font.
[23:39] <Eickmeyer> In the opinion of those I've talked to, the answer is no.
[23:40] <RAOF> Really? I'm not a lawyer by any means, but “thing is literally copied into your binary” seems pretty open-and-shut that you binary is a derivative work?
[23:41] <Eickmeyer> I'm asking.
[23:44] <Eickmeyer> RAOF: Per Dr. Robin Gareus (one of the main developers behind Ardour and x42-plugins): it's like statically linking against a lib. the compound inherits the license.derivative, no. compound, yes
[23:45] <RAOF> What does compound mean in this case? Because statically linking a lib definitely makes you a derivative work by the AA's understanding of copyright.
[23:46] <RAOF> (That's why the copyright of the libraries you use matters at all, as opposed to the “mere aggregation” involved in shipping a CD with a bunch of binary packages on it)
[23:47] <Eickmeyer> Audio plugins use static-linked libraries all the time as it's standard/commond practice when developing audio plugins. You'll see the same thing in x42-plugins.
[23:48] <RAOF> Yeah, that's fine. And they're derivative works of those libraries.
[23:48] <RAOF> Because the licenses are compatible.
[23:48] <RAOF> But the OFL's license states that you can only distribute derivatives under the OFL.
[23:48] <Eickmeyer> So, I've been linked to this particular entry of the OFL FAQ: https://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=OFL-FAQ_web#2a57c6bb
[23:49] <Eickmeyer> I'm not 100% that's the question here though.
[23:50] <RAOF> Yeah, that's not quite the question.
[23:50] <RAOF> This would be 100% fine if they were shipping NotoSans_Regular.ttf.
[23:51] <RAOF> I'm not sure if it's still fine if they take NotoSans_Regular.ttf, and then embed it in their binary.
[23:52] <Eickmeyer> Look at the next question down (1.21). I think that's what is relevant here.
[23:53] <Eickmeyer> RAOF ^
[23:54] <RAOF> Maybe?
[23:55] <RAOF> I did see that; if anything, that suggests that maybe they should be renaming the fonts?
[23:56] <Eickmeyer>  "Alternatively if you directly add a font under the OFL to the font folder of your firmware without modifying or optimizing it you are simply bundling the font like with any other software collection, and do not need to make any further changes."
[23:56] <RAOF> Right, but that's what they're not doing.
[23:56] <Eickmeyer> It is what they're doing, if it's going unmodified into a .cpp file.
[23:57] <RAOF> They're not shipping it in a font folder (which I agree would be totally fine).
[23:57] <RAOF> Is a .cpp file a font folder? 😛
[23:58] <RAOF> It's not; they're (very slightly) changing the format, and it's now not separable from the binary.
[23:59] <Eickmeyer> That was just an example. The principle is shipping it unmodified inside a binary, such as firmware.


[20:35] <boxman> the refresh rate  slider and sync to vblank tick box
[20:35] <boxman> i need that to fix the tearing issues in video playback
[20:35] <reisio> boxman: what video device?
[20:35] <danes123> hello, how can I mount a samba shared place in a client? I tried mount -t smbfs //ip/share /media/smb but it does not work. I tried with -t cifs but still does throw an error
[20:35] <boxman> let me find a screenshot of how it should be
[20:35] <boxman> gtx 650ti
[20:35] <danes123> any clues on what can I do?
[20:36] <boxman> using official nvidia drivers 310.44
[20:36] <boxman> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5bdO0FMWXa8/TLCs6pNWAUI/AAAAAAAAAU8/YqJr_InnwXA/s1600/C:%5Cfakepath%5CCompizConfig+Settings+Manager_005.png
[20:36] <boxman> this is how it should look
[20:37] <faugusztin> danes123: credentials ?
[20:37] <boxman> and how it looked for me before on 12.04 before i changed to a new tv.. then those features just vanished
[20:37] <boxman> dont know if it is because i am using hdmi now instead of vga
[20:37] <faugusztin> danes123: i mean you are missing the username and password for that mount
[20:37] <danes123> faugusztin: how can I access anonymously?
[20:37] <ubuntu-studio> hols
[20:38] <ubuntu-studio> hola
[20:38] <faugusztin> danes123: what OS is on the other side ?
[20:38] <PatrickDickey> danes123: Do you have to access it anonymously? If you're using cifs, you can specify the username and password in the mount command.
[20:38] <danes123> faugusztin: ubuntu server.
[20:38] <danes123> PatrickDickey: yes
[20:39] <ubuntu-studio> como puedo instalar todo el compiz en ubuntu stuidio
[20:39] <faugusztin> danes123: and does it work when you use GUI ? can you access it anonymously ?
[20:39] <danes123> faugusztin, PatrickDickey it works! I just added -o user=user
[20:39] <PatrickDickey> es | ubuntu-studio
[20:39] <PatrickDickey> !es | ubuntu-studio
[20:39] <GreatBacon> Danes, did u ensure you have permission to the share?
[20:39] <danes123> faugusztin, PatrickDickey thanks
[20:39] <danes123> GreatBacon: yeah. I think it works now
[20:50] <Xerofyte> I have some Issues with Display Drivers. Just checked the "dkms status" there are three drivers listed. how to remove the other two
[20:50] <r2d2__> Hi guys, I'm still a rookie with Linux, so I have a problem with Matlab. in the Ubuntu Software Center says that it does not provides Matlab, only configures it. My question is where can I find Matlab for Ubuntu (Xubuntu)?
[20:50] <superlou> if i'm trying to share a folder (with the guest viewing box checked), but when I try to open the shared folder in the file browser (on the sharing computer via Network -> Comp Name -> Folder), i get permission denied.  What would be the next debugging step?  I've already 'chmod -R 0777 /path/to/parent/of/shared/folder'
[20:50] <boxman> i guess it is back to windows for me then :( too bad that something as simple as vsync for video playback is broken beyond fix when it worked fine since 90s...
[20:51] <PatrickDickey> boxman: Have you tried the proprietary nvidia drivers? They might have something in their control center that deals with tearing. I know the ATI/AMD catalyst has that.
[20:52] <boxman> that is what i have been using, tried every suggestion but nothing is working....
[20:52] <PatrickDickey> !matlab | r2d2__
[20:53] <boxman> and cant do the compizconfig manager one since the refresh rate and sync to vblank option is missing under general options|displays
[20:53] <boxman> something that was there before i switched to a new tv/hdmi
[20:53] <boxman> same version and everything.. but now those features are gone
[20:53] <boxman> been wasting days on this issue already
[20:53] <lnxslck> r2d2__, and matlab is not free, you have to purchase it
[20:53] <boxman> and turning of composition completely makes it even worse...
[20:53] <PatrickDickey> boxman: could it be that your television doesn't support those features? I'll be honest and tell you that I'm guessing at this.
[20:54] <lnxslck> r2d2__, there's a free alternative named octave i think
[20:54] <boxman> it does.. it works fine under windows, and it should not be a tv specific feature..
[20:54] <boxman> the odd part is that i dont get tearing in unity, but any other window manager including gnome shell gives me tearing on video playback
[20:54] <boxman> but unity just isnt for me
[20:55] <boxman> it is really odd how those features just vanished from both 12.04 and 13.04 just after changing a tv set.. makes no sense :\
[20:55] <boxman> and no one else seems to be having this issue
[20:55] <Xerofyte> I have some Issues with Display Drivers. Just checked the "dkms status" there are three drivers listed. how to remove the other two? Anyone Please
[20:55] <r2d2__> @lnxslck thanks, i'll check octave too
[20:55] <boxman> i know that if i could tick that sync to vblank box it would solve those issues as it did in the past
[20:56] <boxman> how it should look: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5bdO0FMWXa8/TLCs6pNWAUI/AAAAAAAAAU8/YqJr_InnwXA/s1600/C:%5Cfakepath%5CCompizConfig+Settings+Manager_005.png
[20:56] <boxman> how mine looks: http://s24.postimg.org/u1r32iw9v/fucasdas.png
[20:56] <Ben64> have you tried the vsync checkbox in nvidia-settings
[20:56] <boxman> yep it is checked
[20:57] <Ben64> then you shouldn't be having any tearing, especially with videos
[20:57] <PatrickDickey> Xerofyte: For what it's worth, I have eight listings when I do dkms status.
[20:57] <boxman> and every other feature of compizconfig manager is there and working... just the refresh and vsync ones that are missing
[20:58] <PatrickDickey> Xerofyte: They are showing one for each kernel that I have installed, along with two for virtualbox.
[20:58] <boxman> i also notice that under displays that my tv shows up as a samsung 7" when it is 37"
[20:58] <boxman> but doubt that has anything to do with it
[20:58] <Xerofyte> PatrickDickey: I had some resolutions Issues yesterday. I installed a package I downloaded from nVidia. and Now the resolutions is even worse.
[20:58] <PatrickDickey> boxman: That could have something to do with it. Because it's not reading your television as the correct one.
[20:58] <Ben64> boxman: tvs usually have very strange edid
[20:59] <boxman> the native resolution and refresh rate is correct at least
[21:00] <boxman> i dont see how it will make those features vanish from compizconfig though
[21:00] <Ben64> how are you getting tearing from a video anyway? they should all be 24/25/30 fps
[21:01] <boxman> that is kind of a common problem.. so that does happen even with videos
[21:01] <Ben64> not really
[21:01] <boxman> internet is full of people having those issues... it is caused because of lack of vsync
[21:01] <Ben64> it happens in things with varying framerate, like games
[21:02] <boxman> and this is why i need those features in compizconfig manager as those usually fixes it
[21:02] <Ben64> unless you watch videos while dragging the video box around your screen, i don't see how its possible
[21:02] <Ben64> what player do you use
[21:02] <boxman> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/01/how-to-fix-video-tearing-in-videos-nvidia-ubuntu
[21:02] <boxman> it happens in any player
[21:03] <awesomesauce1414> hey, does anyone know how to install steam on ubuntu?
[21:03] <boxman> both in window and fullscreen
[21:03] <PatrickDickey> !steam
[21:03] <boxman> http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/9255/compizconfigsettingsman.png <---- this is what has fixed it for me before
[21:03] <boxman> but now  that refresh rate slider and sync to vblank tick box is missing entirely
[21:03] <awesomesauce1414> ok, thanks!
[21:04] <Ben64> boxman: so what player do you use
[21:04] <boxman> tried most of them.. like vlc, totem and mplayer
[21:04] <boxman> they all do the same
[21:05] <boxman> tried different video output drivers in vlc as well
[21:05] <Ben64> use mplayer2 with vdpau
[21:05] <Marlenee> any tools for record what happen on programme running on my screen  and send it this log to my mail ?
[21:06] <bekks> Marlenee: Write a script that runs some action, record stuff to a log and send that log to your mail.
[21:07] <Xerofyte> Can someone please tell me how to remove ".config/monitors.xml"
[21:08] <bekks> Xerofyte: delete that file if you really want to do that.
[21:08] <awesomesauce1414> steam doesnt show up in the software center, any fixes?
[21:08] <k1l> Xerofyte: i would suggest you rename that file to monitors.xml.backup in first place. so you could get that file back if it doesn help to delete/rename it
[21:08] <usc911> hey, anyone know how I can downgrade from apache 2.4 to 2.2?
[21:08] <Xerofyte> bekks: Where would this file be? I am using Ubuntu 12.04 LTS 64Bit
[21:09] <PatrickDickey> awesomesauce: Off chance, did you check the wiki about installing Steam?
[21:09] <awesomesauce1414> Yes i am there right now
[21:09] <k1l> Xerofyte: .config is a folder in your home folder
[21:10] <Xerofyte> k1l,  Thanks :D and bekks: thanks
[21:10] <loki__> how i can using command line get last user activity time?
[21:10] <k1l> Xerofyte: with full path it would be /home/USER/.config.monitors.xml     /home/USER could be shortened with ~/.config/monitors.xml
[21:11] <bekks> loki__: Basically, you cant.
[21:11] <PatrickDickey> awesomesauce I would say go to the link provided (the one that says "Valve" and install that. You can install it using dpkg -i name.deb (where name.deb is the file that you download from them).
[21:12] <PatrickDickey> awesomesauce1414: I should clarify, it's sudo dpkg -i
[21:12] <awesomesauce1414> ok thanks, i'll try that
[21:13] <awesomesauce1414> tyler@tyler-Presario-CQ62-Notebook-PC:~$ sudo dpkg -i steam.deb [sudo] password for tyler:  Selecting previously unselected package steam-launcher. (Reading database ... 161363 files and directories currently installed.) Unpacking steam-launcher (from steam.deb) ... dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of steam-launcher:  steam-launcher depends on curl; however:   Package curl is not installed.  steam-launcher d
[21:13] <Ben64> awesomesauce1414: in the future, use a pastebin
[21:13] <PatrickDickey> awesomesauce1414: sudo apt-get install curl will fix that.
[21:14] <awesomesauce1414> Ok thanks, didn't know about pastebin and i'll try the update
[21:15] <loki__> bekks, want take idle time of desktop, now i just compaer mouse position :D
[21:24] <skinux> I downloaded XChat source from repository, but /usr/local/src only has a single header file. I'm assuming that is only meant for plugin dev, so where is the rest of the source?
[21:24] <moses> how do i make a new user account using commands only
[21:24] <reisio> skinux: where'd you extract the source to?
[21:25] <moses> im on a shell
[21:25] <moses> where do i go to learn how to do this?
[21:25] <reisio> moses: an admin account?
[21:25] <superlou> Ok, so I can share folders that are on my system drive, but shared folders from my mounted RAID array give permission denied?  Does ubuntu store it's sharing configuration outside smb.conf?
[21:25] <moses> no just a user account
[21:25] <reisio> moses: what does 'groups moses' say?
[21:26] <skinux> I didn't provide a location. It placed the header file in /usr/local/src by default probably.
[21:26] <PatrickDickey> !serverguide | moses
[21:26] <PatrickDickey> That will have the command line methods for adding users and groups.
[21:26] <Ponch0> Hello ubuntu, I updated gnome from 3.8, I'm now on 3.9 how do I jump to 310?
[21:29] <moses> how do i view users on the computers
[21:30] <reisio> moses: egrep '^users' /etc/group
[21:30] <cjwelborn> when the latest installer says "Erase Ubuntu 12.10 and reinstall", what it really means is "Erase EVERYTHING on /dev/sda, including the Windows partition, so basically your laptop contains nothing, not even a working ubuntu installation".
[21:31] <reisio> cjwelborn: bummer
[21:31] <reisio> moses: what I usually do is useradd -m newUserName
[21:31] <reisio> moses: then use gpasswd to put the new user into groups
[21:31] <reisio> moses: then passwd newUserName to set a pass
[21:32] <reisio> moses: you can see your own user's groups with 'groups youruser'
[21:32] <reisio> moses: likely you'd want all the same groups, except for the administrator one
[21:32] <moses> yeah shes not on the group
[21:32] <reisio> on what group?
[21:43] <moses> rlh groups
[21:43] <moses> moses groups
[21:43] <reisio> ?
[21:43] <moses> what group should i put her under
[21:43] <Xerofyte> Can anyone please tell me how can I remove this DKMS "nvidia, 304.88, 3.8.0-31-generic, x86_64: installed"
[21:44] <reisio> moses: as I said, probably want all the same groups your user has, except for the administrator group
[21:44] <reisio> moses: what are your groups?
[21:44] <moses> how do i view groups?
[21:44] <reisio> moses: groups moses
[21:46] <moses> how do i add groups?
[21:46] <moses> to a user
[21:47] <reisio> moses: gpasswd
[21:47] <moses> what
[21:47] <reisio> that's how
[21:48] <override> help
[21:49] <SchrodingersScat> !ask | override
[21:50] <override> new to this what is this for
[21:50] <SchrodingersScat> !#ubuntu | override
[21:50] <SchrodingersScat> override: support channel for that
[21:51] <override> hacktheplanet
[21:52] <reisio> :p
[21:52] <override> ?
[21:55] <Sik> Hi, the character map font changed for some reason and apparently the font list refuses to scroll (meaning the font I want is waaaaaaaaaay off screen). Does anybody know of an alternate way to change the font?
[21:57] <override> wtf is this\
[21:57] <override> how did i get here
[21:57] <qin> override: /quit
[21:57] <bprompt> override:    we're wondering the same :S
[21:58] <override> quit ?
[21:59] <Sik> Well, that was definitely random
[21:59] <qin> Always thought that's bots channel, now looks like it's shared with loons, override you are on Ubuntu support channel, do you have any questions you wanted to ask?
[22:00] <override> questions about what
[22:00] <override> dont know what i am suppose to ask
[22:00] <k1l_> override: please keep this channel clear for ubuntu support
[22:00] <k1l_> !guidelines | override
[22:01] <override> how do i use ubuntu what is ubuntu
[22:02]  * Sik turns off the Mega Drive (those who are into demoscene know what I mean)
[22:02] <qin> override: Pretty much same as you using Linux now
[22:03] <l_r> hello
[22:03] <l_r> is flashplayer part of ubuntu repos?
[22:03] <l_r> does it have to be downlaoded from a website?
[22:03] <qin> !flash | l_r
[22:04] <override> im running something called kali linux
[22:05] <k1l_> !kali | override
[22:05] <qin> override: /j #kali-linux
[22:05] <l_r> thanks
[22:05] <l_r> another question is
[22:06] <zykotick9> z302: everything will look "unthemed".  there are other alternatives, that might not be so "minimal".  best of luck.
[22:06] <l_r> is there a way via link to a browser to make a stupid user install a given software? suppose you have a stupid friend who does not understand anything about linux and you suggest him to install a software he needs
[22:06] <l_r> *link to website
[22:07] <gulag2013> c
[22:08] <mikerose357> regarding minimal window managers/light desktop environments i3 is good
[22:08] <l_r> this would be a nice feature
[22:08] <mikerose357> you could get him to give you access to his computer and just install from the command line
[22:09] <l_r> basically you define a protocol   like   as fot the string  "deb://software", then you click on it and the broweser opens the software center asking for the installation of the mentioned software
[22:10] <mikerose357> coudln't you just give him the name and have him open up software center and type the name?
[22:10] <l_r> mikerose357, he is really stupid
[22:10] <mikerose357> thats fairly user friendly
[22:10] <l_r> but what about my idea
[22:10] <l_r> isn't it nicer?
[22:10] <mikerose357> what you are describing would be an excellent way to spread malware
[22:10] <gulag2013> I'm almost sure Firefox gives you that option when you download a .deb. I remember it asking to open with software center.
[22:10] <l_r> you follow a tutorial just by clicking on the links
[22:11] <l_r> mikerose357, why malware? i am talking about getting the software via the center
[22:11] <l_r> the link just opens the software center
[22:11] <bekks> l_r: Thats not nice, since you dont even learn on how to properly install software the ubuntu way :) Its not windows where you just click to install software.
[22:11] <mikerose357> teaching people to click on links and install software would seem to be dumb
[22:12] <l_r> this is a thing that already happens
[22:12] <mikerose357> my suggestion get him some condoms so the next generation of users wont include his dna
[22:12] <l_r> if you download a deb ,then debi opens it for you
[22:13] <l_r> i am talking about extending this via a well defined protocol which opens the center only
[22:13] <mikerose357> but there is a ubuntu package for damn near everything
[22:13] <bekks> l_r: It doesnt, here. right click, save as ...
[22:13] <blazeme8> no
[22:13] <bekks> l_r: Why not learning on how to install software without a webbrowser?
[22:14] <OerHeks> l_r,  "deb://software" does exist > "apt://clementine"
[22:15] <OerHeks> found @ https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/clementine/
[22:15] <l_r> bekks, because people sometimes do not know how to make a good search or what to put in the search bar. think of flashplayer ...   my friend asked me "how do i see videos on youtube"   , now i could tell him the right name of the package. but what if he was alone?   he cannot guess the name of the package, he might not even know what "flash player" is
[22:16] <mikerose357> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptURL
[22:16] <loki__> what is command for gnome image viewer
[22:16] <loki__> i remeber that it is "edo"
[22:16] <loki__> or something like this
[22:16] <l_r> Defaultti, oh,let me see
[22:17] <loki__> it is eog
[22:17] <qin> loki__: eye of gnome ;)
[22:17] <loki__> ye
[22:19] <l_r> OerHeks, i cannot find it
[22:19] <bprompt> l_r:    that's expectable of users
[22:19] <l_r> OerHeks, what are you talking about?
[22:19] <l_r> OerHeks, can you give me a link?
[22:20] <bprompt> hmm clementine is a music organizer and player
[22:20] <OerHeks> l_r, it is the url behind the button "available on softwarecenter"
[22:20] <skinux> Which forums are best for troubleshooting audio/video issues?
[22:20] <Xerofyte> Where is the "etc" directory? is it in "Home/user" directory or somewhere else.?
[22:21] <qin> Xerofyte: /etc what do you want there?
[22:21] <Xerofyte> X11
[22:21] <bprompt> Xerofyte:   root
[22:21] <Xerofyte> qin: I want X11 directory
[22:22] <qin> Xerofyte: cd /etc/X11/; ls
[22:22] <Xerofyte> qin: my PWD is "Home/User" now.. should I "cd /etc/X11/; ls" form there?
[22:23] <gordonjcp> Xerofyte: why do you want /etc/X11 ?
[22:23] <gordonjcp> Xerofyte: what exactly are you trying to do?
[22:23] <Xerofyte> becaue I need to change nvidia settings to xorg.conf
[22:25] <Xerofyte> gordonjcp: I want to "mv xorg.conf.nvidia-xconfig-original xorg.conf"
[22:25]  * Xerofyte is actually facing some Resolution Issues.
[22:26] <bey0tch> howdy
[22:26] <bprompt> howdy padner
[22:27] <qin> Xerofyte: first you will back up xorg.conf right?
[22:27] <Xerofyte> qin: Sure
[22:27]  * Xerofyte got it
[22:28] <bey0tch> i just installed nvidia-313-updates on my machine and now im stick after rebooting. grub menu doesnt show up, the only thing i see is some blinking cursor. i even tried alt+f2ing to uninstall it 'without being able to look at the console'.... didnt work out :P what now padnerz
[22:31] <bey0tch> i mean what the sh** happened here?
[22:31] <ikonia> bey0tch: control the language please.
[22:32] <michaelrose> bey0tch, you should have some sort of rescue mode available do you not?
[22:33] <bey0tch> michaelrose: how do i access that with no grub menu showing up?
[22:33] <zykotick9> bey0tch: try HOLDING shift after bios, and see if grub shows up
[22:33] <qin> bey0tch: Did you press shift on boot?
[22:33] <michaelrose> I mean like boot from the disk?
[22:34] <bey0tch> oh i thought grub shows up by default since it did that before on my machine
[22:34] <bey0tch> so rescue mode gonna heal my system? :X
[22:35] <gulag2013> It should recreate the grub.
[22:35] <bey0tch> like not loading nvidia modules which dont seem to work at all
[22:35] <bey0tch> alright ill give it a try
[22:35] <bey0tch> see ya laterz alligaterz
[22:35] <bey0tch> gotta reboot
[22:35] <bey0tch> :)
[22:36] <MonkeyDust> in a while, crocodile
[22:38] <gulag2013> Opinions on the best to command to locate files across all directories, specifically the commands for programs?
[22:39] <ikonia> find ?
[22:39] <ikonia> nautilus
[22:40] <biggc> hello all, i'm somewhat of a newbie to ubuntu studio 12.10 and just wanted to get pointed in the right direction to making my computer more protected?
[22:40] <zykotick9> gulag2013: if the program is in your path "whereis foo" is fast
[22:40] <ikonia> protected from what ?
[22:41] <el3ktra> hey there, any suggestions on debugging an external taht won't mount?
[22:41] <ikonia> el3ktra: read the error message ?
[22:41] <biggc> cyber attacks?
[22:41] <ikonia> biggc: don't put it online ?
[22:41] <ikonia> biggc: just apply common sense using your machine
[22:42] <el3ktra> should be in /media right?
[22:42] <zykotick9> z302: nice, glad you found something you liked.
[22:42] <el3ktra> is there a logfile that monitorrs mounts?
[22:42] <ikonia> el3ktra: it can be where ever you want
[22:42] <ikonia> el3ktra: mount it manually to get good output
[22:42] <beyaoutch> yeh, uninstalling nvidia-313-updates did the job
[22:42] <biggc> well, make it less "open" if im saying it right?
[22:42] <beyaoutch> now what do you recommend for me?. i want nvidia-drivers fo sho.
[22:42] <ikonia> biggc: you'll be fine as long as you just apply common sense to what you do
[22:43] <el3ktra> ikonia how do I do that?  Just tell me the command I will man the rest...
[22:43] <ikonia> el3ktra: mount
[22:44] <beyaoutch> should i just try installing nvidia-current-updates and reboot or whut?
[22:45] <biggc> thanx, i also wanted to know if there were somewhere i could put ubuntu onto a dvd and load it on a playstation2 if i have the ps2linux dvd to set it up as a standalone unit?
[22:48] <eduardo> join channel
[22:49] <reisio> #channel is the best place to be
[22:49] <eduardo> list
[22:50] <michaelrose> wait did you actaully type out fo sho on irc
[22:50] <michaelrose> die
[22:50] <quantals> what would someone say would be a good image viewer?
[22:51] <michaelrose> eye of gnome for gnome gwenview for kde
[22:51] <quantals> thanks
[22:51] <michaelrose> or do you want a photo manager like shotwell or the like
[22:53] <el3ktra> here is my fstab: http://tny.cz/c0c424de
[22:53] <michaelrose> basically apps like shotwell or digikam allow you to organize your photos, sort them perform operations on a group
[22:53] <michaelrose> upload to social media etc
[22:53] <el3ktra> I also get this line
[22:53] <el3ktra> in lsusb: ok this is interesting: Bus 001 Device 009: ID 0928:8000 Oxford Semiconductor, Ltd
[22:54] <ikonia> el3ktra: try to mount it manually as I said earlier
[22:54] <el3ktra> I feel like a dorko, but I am not sure how to do that :P
[22:55] <ikonia> el3ktra: you use the mount command
[22:55] <quantals> eog will work thanks ..awesome
[22:55] <ikonia> el3ktra: that fstab looks very odd, /usr/local as it's own partition, floppy drive ?
[22:56] <borfast> hi everyone. I'm trying to install libevent-dev to work with gunicorn + gevent but I'm getting an error from apt-get, saying that libevent-dev depends on libevent 2.0.16-stable-1 but 2.0.19-stable-3 is to be installed. I've been searching for a solution for this everywhere but I can't find it. anyone has any idea of what I can do?
[22:56] <el3ktra> I am not sure what to put after "mount"
[22:56] <ikonia> borfast: sounds like you got a ppa installed
[22:57] <ikonia> el3ktra: you said you where going to read the man page, so I didn't provide any more info
[22:57] <el3ktra> yes, ok, now I am asking for more info :)
[22:57] <ikonia> did you read the man page ?
[22:58] <el3ktra> I am right now, but I can't figure out what my device is
[22:58] <ikonia> el3ktra: sudo fdisk -l
[22:58] <ikonia> that should show you the disks
[22:58] <el3ktra> yes, that just shows all the mounts on my internal
[22:58] <ikonia> it doesn't show any mounts
[22:59] <ikonia> it shows disks and partition - nothing to do with mounts
[22:59] <gulag2013> You need that info to mount. Say /dev/sda6 example
[23:00] <el3ktra> OK, that is what I am asking.  Is there a way to figure out the name of the usb that I wnt to mount?
[23:00] <el3ktra> It is not listed in fdisk
[23:00] <ikonia> el3ktra: how big is the disk
[23:00] <el3ktra> 250G
[23:00] <ikonia> then if it's not listed in sudo fdisk -l the OS can't see it
[23:01] <el3ktra> ok!  So is there a log file or somethign that could help me detemrine why the os can't see it?
[23:01] <ikonia>  el3ktra can you please pastebin the output of the command "sudo fdisk -l" please
[23:01] <ikonia> (use a pastebin, not the channel)
[23:02] <borfast> ikonia, I have a few ppa's, yes, namely nginx, which I need but at the same time suspect is the culprit. any ideas to solve it without removing the ppa?
[23:02] <gulag2013> Exactly, look for an NTFS file system to the far right that should narrow the search to only a few options.
[23:02] <el3ktra> here it the fdisk output: http://tny.cz/44a6352f
[23:03] <ikonia> borfast: it sounds negative, but not using such poorly designed PPA's is the real answer, more so as nginx is already in the ubuntu repos, however, you could look at package pinning - but I suspect you won't be able to resolve it with that
[23:03] <ikonia> el3ktra: ok, so that only shows the one disk, check the syslog in /var/log/syslog
[23:03] <el3ktra> I also notived that the DVD drive isn't working weither, if that helps
[23:05] <borfast> ikonia, I agree that not using the ppa would be best. I used it because I needed an up to date nginx, which ubuntu didn't have. I guess I'll have to find a way.
[23:05] <el3ktra> I think that we are getting somethere.  From /var/log/syslog: bus: 1, device: 11 was not an MTP device
[23:07] <Dr_Willis> mtp devices are like android phones and music players
[23:08] <Dr_Willis> el3ktra:  if fdisk, or sudo blkid, dosent show the device. then either theres  some module that needs to be loaded for the device for the kernel to se eit.. or the device is  not being detected at all by the system
[23:09] <genoobie> hey anyone use clonezilla?
[23:09] <Dr_Willis> genoobie:  lots of people do.,
[23:09] <cathode> hey guys i've got an ubuntu 12.04 LTS system that i need to connect to via MS remote desktop protocol (attaching a thin client that only supports RDP), i found xrdp but it doesnt seem to support sound
[23:09] <cathode> and I need sounds
[23:09] <genoobie> first, how do I turn off away and join msgs in xchat
[23:09] <cathode> what else can i run that works as a RDP server ?
[23:09] <bangbro> hi
[23:10] <AcidRain2012> ok. i have a set of files. roughly about 200,000. and in 1 text file i have the current name of the file and the new name on each line. just like this: "oldname.mp4 - newname.mp4" is there a 1 liner i can use to change the names of all of these files?
[23:10] <Dr_Willis> genoobie:  for part/joins (mentioned in the xchat faq/docs) theres a right-click menu item when you click on a channel tab
[23:10] <bangbro> no matter which version of nvidia-drivers i install it says the driver is activated but not in use
[23:10] <Dr_Willis> AcidRain2012:  'qmv' works in a fashion almost identical to that.
[23:10] <MonkeyDust> AcidRain2012  you'd need a 'for - in' script, but better ask in #bash
[23:10] <bangbro> what can i do to make it use the driver?
[23:10] <genoobie> Dr_Willis, thank you
[23:11] <Jordan_U> el3ktra: Is this a normal external hard drive or is it a phone or some other type of device?
[23:11] <el3ktra> nope just a normal external
[23:11] <AcidRain2012> MonkeyDust, Dr_Willis thx
[23:11] <el3ktra> here is what I get on firewire: firewire_core 0000:06:05.0: giving up on node ffc1: reading config rom failed: bus reset
[23:11] <el3ktra> firewire_core 0000:06:05.0: giving up on node ffc0: reading config rom failed: busy
[23:11] <genoobie> Dr_Willis, I have installed two OSes and trimmed a third
[23:11] <genoobie> I'd like to make an image for each and do a little experimenting
[23:11] <Dr_Willis> AcidRain2012:  qmv is a powerfull tool I only use a small fraction of its powar. ;) it basically lets you get a list of files in a texdt editor. (or not) you then alter. then save/quit and it does all the renameing
[23:12] <genoobie> so I want a one click re-install
[23:12] <genoobie> would you suggest clonezilla?
[23:12] <el3ktra> still nothign on fdisk or blkid
[23:12] <AcidRain2012> Dr_Willis, oh cool thx man
[23:12] <Dr_Willis> genoobie:  id suggest checking the clonezilla docs/channel.  I dont use the app.
[23:12] <genoobie> use another?
[23:12] <Dr_Willis> i rarely make image backups of my systems.
[23:12] <AcidRain2012> Dr_Willis, not sure i want to rename all these files yet though :)
[23:12] <AcidRain2012> thx for the help
[23:12] <Jordan_U> el3ktra: Firewire support has historically not been great in GNU/Linux. Can you connect the drive via USB?
[23:13] <el3ktra> no, it's the same drive
[23:13] <el3ktra> the external has two ports
[23:13] <el3ktra> I tried the usb, not I am tryign firewire
[23:13] <Dr_Willis> firewire - :) such a neat idea. that never really took off.
[23:14] <Jordan_U> el3ktra: Stick with the USB connection for now. Can you connect via USB and pastebin the output of "lsusb"?
[23:14] <Dr_Willis> I still have some usb+firewire hds - not tried the FW part in linux in ages.  I can concur. firewire support was never that well supported. Not even in windows.
[23:14] <genoobie> okay.
[23:14] <bprompt_> el3ktra:    what are you connecting again?
[23:14] <el3ktra> here are all the syslog outputs that I have found while tryign this relatecd to the drive: Sep 29 16:01:12 arkham kernel: [101373.410377] usb 1-1: USB disconnect, device number 10
[23:14] <el3ktra> Sep 29 16:01:35 arkham kernel: [101395.956043] usb 1-1: new high-speed USB device number 11 using ehci_hcd
[23:14] <el3ktra> Sep 29 16:01:35 arkham kernel: [101396.088416] usb 1-1: New USB device found, idVendor=0928, idProduct=8000
[23:14] <el3ktra> Sep 29 16:01:35 arkham kernel: [101396.088425] usb 1-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=0, Product=0, SerialNumber=0
[23:14] <el3ktra> Sep 29 16:01:35 arkham mtp-probe: checking bus 1, device 11: "/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb1/1-1"
[23:14] <FloodBot1> el3ktra: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation.
[23:14] <el3ktra> Sep 29 16:01:35 arkham mtp-probe: bus: 1, device: 11 was not an MTP device
[23:14] <Jordan_U> !pastebin | el3ktra
[23:16] <el3ktra> lsusb: http://tny.cz/5d74d222
[23:16] <bprompt_> el3ktra:    what are you connecting again?
[23:16] <el3ktra> usb drive, external
[23:16] <bprompt_> el3ktra:     how big is it?
[23:16] <el3ktra> 250G
[23:17] <el3ktra> fyi, in lsusb, the Bus 001 (Exford Semiconductor) goes away when I unplug
[23:17] <bprompt_> el3ktra:    sounds as if your usb port isn't giving enough voltage to the drive
[23:18] <el3ktra> Hm
[23:18] <el3ktra> so it is a pwoer issue?  That woudl make sense
[23:18] <bprompt_> el3ktra:    tried yet using a external-powered usb-hub?
[23:18] <el3ktra> it is externally powered, but there is only one powerplug in my room, maybe I should try to connect directly to the wall?
[23:18] <bprompt_> el3ktra:    external hd's use more voltage than other smaller usb devices
[23:18] <el3ktra> It is on a powerstrip that has a lot plugged in it
[23:20] <bprompt_> el3ktra:      well, what I meant was to provide an external power cable to it, yes, either by a plug in the enclosure if any, or by using a powered-usb hub, a hub that uses an AC cable
[23:21] <gulag2013> I have the usb cables that split into two male usb's on on end. For extra power. Are you using one like that?
[23:25] <bodom> Hi there! I'm unable to start LibreOffice Base, may someone help me?
[23:27] <Dr_Willis> bodom:  run it from terminal. look for error messages
[23:27] <bodom> Dr_Willis: no errors
[23:28] <bodom> Dr_Willis: http://pastebin.com/5VHaue64
[23:29] <Dr_Willis> im on a console only raspberry pi. :) cant look at pastes. of course I dont use Libreoffice either.
[23:29] <Dr_Willis> but others might be able to help better
[23:30] <bodom> Dr_Willis: ty anyway, good luck for obtaining a real PC someday :D
[23:31] <bprompt_> bodom:    what do you get if you try to run "loffice" at the terminal?
[23:31] <bodom> bprompt_: nothing
[23:32] <wilee-nilee> bodom, You change libreoffice in any way, say added a ppa?
[23:33] <AcidRain2012> how do i mount /dev/sdi
[23:33] <bodom> wilee-nilee: no
[23:33] <AcidRain2012> mount: can't find /dev/sdi in /etc/fstab or /etc/mtab.  im not asking it to look in any of these locations for anything
[23:34] <wilee-nilee> bodom, what does uname -a produce
[23:34] <AcidRain2012> sudo mount /dev/sdi doesnt work
[23:34] <bodom> bprompt_, wilee-nilee: i think I've found the problem. If i have calc opened, I can't start base or "loffice"
[23:34] <downbeam> hello room
[23:34] <IRQ256> hi
[23:34] <bodom> AcidRain2012: man mount
[23:34] <nisstyre> AcidRain2012: you didn't specify a mount point
[23:34] <wilee-nilee> AcidRain2012, sudo mount /dev/sdi /mnt I think it is
[23:34] <Dr_Willis> bodom:  i replaced a real pc with the pi. ;)_
[23:34] <downbeam> ok so i have a web cam but i dont know how to allow  websites to acess it
[23:34] <downbeam> ???????
[23:35] <AcidRain2012> wilee-nilee, since when do u HAVE to specify a mount point?
[23:35] <nisstyre> AcidRain2012: mount doesn't know where to mount sdi
[23:35] <Dr_Willis> AcidRain2012:  sdi would be a whole drive.  sdi1 would be a partion on the drive
[23:35] <nisstyre> also yeah it's probably the whole drive
[23:35] <wilee-nilee> true needs a partition
[23:35] <Dr_Willis> downbeam:  you mean in Flash?  you have to allow it in the flash settings I recall.
[23:35] <nisstyre> is the drive unpartitioned?
[23:35] <AcidRain2012> well your right, it mounted fine when i specified a mount point.
[23:36] <Dr_Willis> AcidRain2012:  youve had to specify a mount point for ever.. UNLESS the mount is defined in /etc/fstab
[23:36] <nisstyre> Dr_Willis: and in that case mount -a works well enough
[23:36] <Dr_Willis> and the mountpoint has to exist befor you do the mount.
[23:36] <Dr_Willis> nisstyre:  unless it has 'noauto' as an option. ;P
[23:36] <nisstyre> Dr_Willis: true
[23:37] <AcidRain2012> i think i corrupted my usb drive. says read only file system
[23:37] <AcidRain2012> i have used it in the past 2 days to transfer over 200GiG of data
[23:37] <Dr_Willis> AcidRain2012:  or more likely.. its a ntfs/vfat thats mounted  where users cant write to it.
[23:37] <Dr_Willis> AcidRain2012:  what filesystem is it?
[23:37] <AcidRain2012> W95 FAT32 (LBA)
[23:38] <AcidRain2012> Dr_Willis, but the thing is, in the past 2 days or so, or even in the past. i havent had this issue
[23:38] <Dr_Willis> see what options 'mount' says for the mountpoint
[23:38] <AcidRain2012> wwhy did it start doing this?
[23:38] <nisstyre> AcidRain2012: do you have the drive in your fstab?
[23:38] <nisstyre> I'm guessing you do
[23:38] <AcidRain2012> nisstyre, this drive has never been in my fstab. and i lose them so quickly i just buy more
[23:38] <Dr_Willis> how were you mounting it in the past. how did you mount it now. ;)  differnt options can affect what users can access the drive
[23:38] <nisstyre> and I'm guessing you don't have it using a UUID?
[23:38] <nisstyre> oh ok
[23:38] <gulag2013> You should just create a new folder in /media directory. Name it flashdrive or whatever
[23:39] <AcidRain2012> Dr_Willis, in the past, to mount. i plugged it in. and added/deleted files.
[23:39] <downbeam> Dr_Willis, how do i get to flash settings?
[23:39] <AcidRain2012> today, i did that. JUST NOW i did that, and it says read only file s ystem
[23:39] <Dr_Willis> AcidRain2012:  so the Desktop was auto-mounting it for you. You just mounted it by hand. with differnt options
[23:39] <nisstyre> AcidRain2012: what filesystem is on the drive? How is it partitioned?
[23:39] <Dr_Willis> downbeam:  right click in a flash player window i recall.
[23:40] <AcidRain2012> Dr_Willis, when the Desktop tried to auto mount it this time. it did that to me
[23:40] <bprompt_> downbeam:    run "flash-player-properties"
[23:40] <nisstyre> AcidRain2012: paste output of "sudo blkid" to ideone.com
[23:40] <Dr_Willis> normally if a vfat/ntfs fs is curripted - the ntfs-3g drivers wont mount it.
[23:40] <Dr_Willis> if a linux ext2/3/4 is found to be getting currupted. it will warn, or kick it into read-only mode as a failsafe
[23:40] <downbeam> bprompt_, where do i type that in?
[23:40] <AcidRain2012> Dr_Willis, full story here: i plug it in. it mounts, i delete/add. NEVER have i mounted this drive. it always auto mounts. today, i plug drive in. it auto mounts as read only. sudo cannot change permissions on this drive
[23:41] <Dr_Willis> AcidRain2012:  you dont chown/chmod a ntfs/vfat -  you use the proper mount options.
[23:41] <bprompt_> downbeam:     at the Run box, run command
[23:41] <wilee-nilee> bodom, I guess if it were me I would remove the .config libreoffice first then maybe purge it and reinstall, but I'm not much of a trouble shooter in general.
[23:41] <Dr_Willis> AcidRain2012:  i would be letting windows check that drive for errors soon.
[23:41] <nisstyre> AcidRain2012: you should get something similar to this http://ideone.com/9TvKjO
[23:42] <AcidRain2012> Dr_Willis, its no biggy man. its an 8GiG drive. ive got 10more right here beside me :P
[23:42]  * AcidRain2012 throws this drive in the trash
[23:42] <nisstyre> except with different drives and filesystems
[23:42] <mkrell> sup
[23:42] <Dr_Willis> AcidRain2012:  be sure to properly 'safely remove/unmount' the things befor you unplug themn also.
[23:42] <Dr_Willis> even under windows, - use their safely remove menu item thing.
[23:42] <AcidRain2012> Dr_Willis, does that actually matteR?
[23:42] <nisstyre> AcidRain2012: it prevents unwritten data from not being written
[23:42] <Dr_Willis> AcidRain2012:  it exists for a reason.. so YES YES YES
[23:43] <Dr_Willis> and a YES
[23:43] <Dr_Willis> </font blink? YES! </blink>
[23:43] <AcidRain2012> nisstyre, so it ONLY prevents unwritten data from not being saved?
[23:43] <Dr_Willis> ;)
[23:43] <nisstyre> AcidRain2012: there may be buffered data in memory not yet written to the drive
[23:43] <nisstyre> AcidRain2012: it probably prevents other bugs too
[23:43] <nisstyre> that's the most obvious one though
[23:43] <AcidRain2012> hmmm...
[23:43] <downbeam> we dont have a run box in ubuntu bprompt_
[23:44] <AcidRain2012> nisstyre, perhaps thats what just happened to it. i unplugged it like that. ive only had like 3 fail on me my entire life.
[23:44] <Dr_Willis> Ive noticed gnome/nautilys cache like several MB of data  when copying files to a USB.   then the usb catches up
[23:44] <nisstyre> AcidRain2012: ok then you could run a fsck on it
[23:44] <bprompt_> downbeam: ... no run box?    ahemm... ok... then run it at the terminal
[23:44] <nisstyre> AcidRain2012: it may just be that the filesystem has errors
[23:45] <downbeam> ok what do i type verbatim in the term?
[23:45] <AcidRain2012> nisstyre, i plugged it back into my winxp comp. turns out the there is a "read only" option that got checked somehow. :)
[23:45] <AcidRain2012> nisstyre, kinda disappointed that the mighty sudo couldnt fix this
[23:45] <bprompt_> downbeam:     flash-player-properties
[23:45] <nisstyre> AcidRain2012: ok so it is ntfs and you messed it up
[23:46] <nisstyre> AcidRain2012: mount can't magically fix stupid filesystems :)
[23:46] <AcidRain2012> nisstyre, lol. i already stated it was ntfs :P
[23:46] <Dr_Willis> AcidRain2012:  if the fs is curriupted it mounts it read only as a Failsafe feature
[23:46] <downbeam> said command not found bprompt_
[23:46] <AcidRain2012> nisstyre, yeah i saw that. told sudo to copy it, and it just laughed at me.
[23:46] <nisstyre> AcidRain2012: you should've been able to copy data
[23:46] <AcidRain2012> Dr_Willis, oh rly now. well lets test it out real quick
[23:46] <nisstyre> you mean to the drive?
[23:47] <nisstyre> obviously if it's mounted read-only you can't copy data to it
[23:47] <bprompt_> [16:44] <AcidRain2012> W95 FAT32 (LBA)     <----
[23:47] <Dr_Willis> AcidRain2012:  it can do it with ext2/3/4  on the fly.   if your linux partions get currupted. the kernel can kick them over to 'read only mode' and hopefully save the disks from getting more currupted
[23:48] <Dr_Willis> there are some tools in linux to 'forcecheck' the ntfs/vfat and flag them as 'ok' but thats a data loss risk. i cant recall the commands either.
[23:48] <Dr_Willis> i recall all the command does is make the drive 'think' its ok. it dosent actually check anything
[23:48] <nisstyre> AcidRain2012: I assume all you have to do is "uncheck" the box and it works?
[23:49] <AcidRain2012> nisstyre, no Dr_Willis is right. it appears to be corrupt. trashing it now
[23:49] <AcidRain2012> thats what 4$ gets u. lol
[23:49] <bprompt_> downbeam: .... hmmm.. I have ... one... myself
[23:49] <AcidRain2012> it remounted as read only
[23:49] <Dr_Willis> AcidRain2012:  repation/reformat it. ;)
[23:49] <nisstyre> AcidRain2012: well I wouldn't expect anything good for a 4 dollar drive
[23:49] <bprompt_> downbeam:    is at /usr/bin/X11
[23:49] <nisstyre> reformat it and put a sane filesystem on it
[23:50] <Dr_Willis> use dd to zero it - and put ext2 on it. ;P
[23:50] <downbeam> what is? bprompt_
[23:50] <bprompt_> downbeam:     flash-player-properties
[23:52] <AcidRain2012> Dr_Willis, actually, without it even being plugged into winxp. i just got a message saying the disk was corrupted. its sitting in trash when i got this error. lol
[23:53] <bprompt_> AcidRain2012:   possibly because winxp had the telephatic drivers installed =P
[23:53] <Dr_Willis> AcidRain2012:  so zero it out and repartion.
[23:55] <AcidRain2012> New Hardware Found - Telepathic Drivers were automatically installed.
[23:55] <AcidRain2012> Device is ready for use.
[23:59] <ryanw> Hey hey. Are there plans for Ubuntu to support HiDPI?


[00:28] <wrst> Nice
[00:29] <Unit193> There's also a 40 floppy drive Pirates one...
[02:30] <Omnifrog> http://www.breakingcatnews.com/comic/the-bi-monthly-2-am-running-of-the-cats/


[20:10] <seb128> chrisccoulson, great!
[20:10] <chrisccoulson> g-s-d expects me to set the GError appropriately when the backup file isn't found, which i forgot to do ;)
[20:11] <chrisccoulson> so it just skips over the whole lot
[20:11] <chrisccoulson> easy fix :)
[20:22] <chrisccoulson> seb128, ok, fix uploaded now
[20:22] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
[20:24] <chrisccoulson> it does mean that you'll suffer the cost of XRRGetScreenResourcesCurrent, as that is called if you have a configuration file
[20:24] <chrisccoulson> i wonder if i can avoid that :/
[20:24] <chrisccoulson> it seems pointless to fetch the screen information, and then refresh it again immediately afterwards
[20:25] <chrisccoulson> i guess it's better than suffering from 3 of them though ;)
[20:27] <seb128> chrisccoulson, well, I personally don't care much, if you saw my charts the xrandr call have very low impact on xorg on my config
[20:28] <seb128> weird that it takes over 1s for some other intel users
[20:31] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm fairly sure the additional refresh is completely unnecessary there
[20:31] <chrisccoulson> it would make sense when applying a config manually later in the session
[20:31] <chrisccoulson> but it's triggering 2 reprobes in a row still
[20:47] <mterry> tremolux, I just got bug 848676 on up-to-date software-center when I was removing packages
[20:47] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 848676 in software-center "[MASTER] software-center crashed with DBusException in _convert_dbus_exception(): org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod: Method "GetAll" with signature "s" on interface "org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties" doesn't exist" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/848676
[20:49] <tremolux> mterry: hmm, well that's just sad
[20:49] <tremolux> mterry: what's your version?
[20:50] <tremolux> mterry: .3?
[20:50] <mterry> tremolux, yeah
[20:50] <tremolux> mterry: did you apport it?
[20:51] <mterry> tremolux, I did, but it said "this has already been reported" and pointed me at that bug
[20:51] <tremolux> mterry: yeah, I think that one's bugpatterned
[20:51] <mterry> tremolux, easy for me to trigger.  I seem to get it by just removing packages
[20:52] <mterry> tremolux, hmm,  no, but queuing up packages to remove
[20:53] <tremolux> mterry: I guess we need to reopen, would you mind adding a comment to the bug?
[20:53] <mterry> tremolux, OK
[20:53] <tremolux> mterry: thanks
[20:53] <tremolux> mterry: so, for you it's quite reproducible then?
[20:53] <mterry> tremolux, I got it 3 times anyway
[20:55] <tremolux> mterry: the key might be the multiple removes, this is one of those bugs that we haven't been able to repro ourselves
[21:01] <chrisccoulson> time to find out where Xorg is burning 5 seconds on startup here
[21:02] <soren> Every time I do anything involving xrandr, everything stalls for a while. I think it's more than 5 seconds though, so possibly completely unrelated.
[21:13] <chrisccoulson> soren, no, i don't think that's unrelated ;)
[21:33] <htorque> chrisccoulson: have you tried the latest natty kernel by any chance? my probing related cpu spiking (probably what soren sees) starts between ubuntu's 2.6.38 and 2.6.39 kernel.
[21:34] <htorque> not sure though if i wouldn't be chasing a red herring if i'd bisect the kernel.
[21:35] <seb128> Sarvatt, bryceh: ^
[21:35] <seb128> on the topic
[21:40] <bryceh> chrisccoulson, soren vga probing?
[21:40] <chrisccoulson> bryceh, yeah, see bug 854101
[21:40] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 854101 in ubuntu-boot-speed "gnome-settings-daemon takes waaaaaaaay too long to start" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854101
[21:40] <bryceh> I'd be interested to hear if the delay = ${NUM_VIDEO_OUTPUTS} * 1 sec
[21:41] <seb128> 'night
[21:41] <Sarvatt> soren: 5 seconds! thats crazy! randomly curious, is that on a thinkpad?
[21:42] <bryceh> chrisccoulson, tail -f /var/log/Xorg.0.log and then reproduce, and see if you see it printing RANDR stuff during that period
[21:42] <bryceh> chrisccoulson, x220?
[21:43] <chrisccoulson> bryceh, no, i'm on a dell here. the probing isn't too bad for me (~0.5s). the main problem is the amount of times we do it :)
[21:43] <Sarvatt> bryceh: nope he's on a dell, his numbers dont seem that crazy
[21:43] <chrisccoulson> i'm more concerned about bug 854986 on my laptop though ;)
[21:43] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 854986 in xorg-server "5 second delay between Xorg starting and the greeter starting (Dell Latitude E6410)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854986
[21:43] <soren> Sarvatt: Yes, it is.
[21:43] <chrisccoulson> Xorg seems to take forever to start on my machine
[21:44] <htorque_> bryceh: here it's a thinkpad t510. i see probes for lcd (internal), vga (nothing connected), hdmi1-3 (don't have those), dp1-3 (i have one - disconnected).
[21:44] <soren> bryceh: ${NUM_VIDEO_OUTPUTS} as in possible outputs or active outputs?
[21:44] <bryceh> chrisccoulson, yeah, I noticed that as well; crazy amount of repetitive repetition
[21:44] <bryceh> soren, possible
[21:45] <soren> I'll attempt to time it. Hang on.
[21:45] <soren> Hm.. No.
[21:45] <bryceh> soren, upstream (Intel) says they know of an issue where the VGA probing is unnecessarily slow, at least on certain hardware types, but it's uncertain if that's the case here
[21:45] <soren> Just running xrandr takes slightly less than 4 seconds.
[21:46] <soren> With 2 connected and 5 disconnected outputs.
[21:46] <soren> Actually changing anything, though, is way slower.
[21:47] <bryceh> I think there's a way to make it completely ignore specific outputs.  dunno what the config syntax is though.  but that would pinpoint if it really is the output probing
[21:48] <htorque_> bryceh: http://paste.ubuntu.com/694052/
[21:49] <soren> bryceh: WEll, "xrandr --current" is nearly instantaneous.
[21:49] <htorque_> soren: confirming.
[21:50] <bryceh>        --current
[21:50] <bryceh>               Return the current screen configuration, without polling for hardware changes.
[21:50] <bryceh> ok, so that seems to support the hypothesis that it's the polling that's bugged
[21:50] <soren> bryceh: This is kernel stuff these days, right?
[21:51] <bryceh> htorque_, thanks.  however I'm wondering if the configuration needs to happen kernel-side; do you find that xorg.conf change results in faster boot / randr ?
[21:51] <bryceh> soren, correct
[21:51] <htorque_> bryce: yes, a lot faster.
[21:51] <bryceh> htorque_, ok thanks
[21:52] <htorque_> bryce: it's basically the same picture as here if i put all my disconnected outputs on "ignore": https://launchpadlibrarian.net/80234431/oneiric-2.6.38-vs-3.0.0_crop.png
[21:52] <bryceh> soren, would be interesting if you could add that same snippet and see if it also eliminates the lag (or a portion of it) for you
[21:53] <soren> Sorry, which snippet was this?
[21:53] <soren> bryceh: ^
[21:53] <bryceh> soren, <htorque_> bryceh: http://paste.ubuntu.com/694052/
[21:53] <htorque_> i haven't tested only VGA1 though - i did this for all disconnected ones.
[21:53] <bryceh> htorque_, do you put that in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/vga.conf or similar?  Or just in xorg.conf directly?
[21:53] <htorque_> xorg.conf in /etc/X11
[21:53] <soren> bryceh: I'll give it a shot.
[21:53] <bryceh> soren, thanks
[21:54] <soren> bryceh: I'll repeat for all the disconnected ones, right?
[21:54] <bryceh> htorque_, in those two images, is the ONLY difference the kernel version?  (Same Xorg versions?)
[21:54] <chrisccoulson> fantastic, i've got some air crash investigation to watch
[21:54] <htorque_> bryce: yes. i actually narrowed that down to 2.6.38-8.42 → good, 2.6.39-0.5 → bad.
[21:54] <bryceh> soren, that would be quite interesting; I'm curious if it's just hte VGA that causes the slowdown, or the sum of all disconnected outputs
[21:55] <bryceh> htorque_, sweet, excellent work.  Has this been escalated for the kernel team yet?
[21:56] <htorque_> bryce: no, i just finished all the rebooting fun. it's also happening with a daily upstream kernel from a couple days ago (from the ubuntu mainline ppa).
[21:56] <RAOF> Oh, the mainline kernel builds are back in business?
[21:58] <bryceh> htorque_, ok, no prob, would you mind filing a bug (ubuntu-bug linux) and I can handle getting it escalated to the kernel team
[21:58] <bryceh> or actually
[21:58] <htorque_> RAOF: oh, it was<PHONE_NUMBER>19 - so probably not :-(
[21:58] <bryceh> htorque_, do `ubuntu-bug xorg`, which will get X logs that might be of use
[21:58] <bryceh> I'll reassign to kernel after that
[21:59] <htorque_> bryce: what about chrisccoulson's bug 854986? is this not the same?
[21:59] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 854986 in xorg-server "5 second delay between Xorg starting and the greeter starting (Dell Latitude E6410)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854986
[22:00] <chrisccoulson> i don't think that's the same
[22:01] <chrisccoulson> if it is, then it's not any clients triggering the probing
[22:01] <bryceh> well, just to be safe let's assume they're not.  I can escalate both, and let upstream decide
[22:02] <soren> bryceh: This is interesting.
[22:02] <soren> bryceh: I tried disabling everything but LVDS1. xrandr was instantaneous.
[22:02] <bryceh> chrisccoulson, lp #854101 is focusing totally on just gnome lag stuff?  nothing I need to worry over?
[22:02] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 854101 in ubuntu-boot-speed "gnome-settings-daemon takes waaaaaaaay too long to start" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854101
[22:02] <soren> Then I re-enabled VGA1 (I use an external monitor). Still instantaneous.
[22:03] <soren> Then I re-enabled HDMI1. Now it's back to ~4 seconds to just run xrandr.
[22:03] <RAOF> chrisccoulson: X does a probe during startup; if proping is taking ages, X startup will take ages.
[22:03] <chrisccoulson> bryceh, yeah, that's completely focused on what gnome-settings-daemon does before anything else starts
[22:03] <RAOF> s/proping/probing/
[22:03] <bryceh> alrighty
[22:03] <chrisccoulson> RAOF, yeah, i'm not sure what it's doing. did you see my last comment on the bug?
[22:03] <soren> lightdm also felt waaaay snappier when all the disconnected outputs were disabled.
[22:03] <bryceh> morning RAOF
[22:04] <chrisccoulson> i found where it spends 2.5 seconds of its time
[22:04] <soren> I'll see if HDMI1 is the culprit of it it's any disconnected output that makes it slow.
[22:04] <htorque_> bryceh: should i undo the fix in that report? i'm also using this fixed g-s-d version (but found the kernel differences before that on a 'clean' system).
[22:04] <htorque_> (i mean before reporting anything)
[22:05] <RAOF> chrisccoulson: Does it actually do a modeset on X startup?
[22:05] <bryceh> htorque_, hmm, might not matter, but to be completely scientific it would not be a bad idea
[22:05] <soren> Wow.
[22:05] <soren> For me, it's HDMI1.
[22:06] <soren> I re-enabled everything but that, and now it's as fast as it was in NAtty.
[22:06] <chrisccoulson> RAOF, bug 854986 - i'm not sure if that has enough information to tell you that :)
[22:06] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 854986 in xorg-server "5 second delay between Xorg starting and the greeter starting (Dell Latitude E6410)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854986
[22:06] <soren> I don't have an HDMI port at all, though. It's an X200s. I think I'd have one if I had a docking station, but I don't.
[22:06] <htorque_> soren: do you actually have a HDMI port? i don't...
[22:06] <htorque_> ok :)
[22:07] <soren> So it's no loss for me, but for someone with a dock, it'd suck to have it be disabled.
[22:07] <RAOF> soren: No, you wouldn't have an HDMI port, even on the docking station.
[22:08]  * RAOF *has* a docking station; it's got exactly one video output: DP.
[22:08] <soren> RAOF: No?
[22:08] <soren> Oh.
[22:08] <RAOF> The vbios is just being super-conservative.
[22:08] <bryceh> soren, check your xrandr output; there are cases where you'll have "phantom outputs" that dont' actually have a physical connector hooked up
[22:08] <soren> bryceh: Oh, the vast majority are fake.
[22:08] <RAOF> Maybe lenovo will at some point create a docking station that has 3 DP outputs, a couple of HDMI... :)
[22:09] <soren> bryceh: I only have two. One is the built-in display, and then I have a VGA port.
[22:09] <soren> bryceh: but xrandr brags about DP1 DP2 DP3 HDMI1 HDMI2
[22:09] <bryceh> chrisccoulson, I'd also like to see you repeat the xorg.conf settings to narrow down if disabling HDMI or another output restores your speed
[22:09] <bryceh> yeah
[22:09] <bryceh> soren, there are ways to 'quirk' off these phantom outputs, but it requires kernel patching
[22:09] <bryceh> soren, can you also file a bug report (ubuntu-bug xorg), so we can handle your case as well
[22:10] <soren> bryceh: Sure thing.
[22:10] <bryceh> I'm hoping that upstream can give us a general purpose patch, but it's possible they'll do quirking, which will be very hw-specific
[22:10] <chrisccoulson> bryceh, which settings are those? sorry, i haven't followed all of the discussion :)
[22:11] <bryceh> chrisccoulson, <bryceh> soren, <htorque_> bryceh: http://paste.ubuntu.com/694052/
[22:11] <bryceh> chrisccoulson, stick that in your /etc/X11/xorg.conf (maybe expand to include other outputs), then restart X
[22:12] <chrisccoulson> ok, brb
[22:15] <soren> bryceh: Bug #855124
[22:15] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 855124 in xorg "XRANDR operations very slow" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/855124
[22:16] <bryceh> thanks
[22:17] <chrisccoulson> bryceh, probing seems quicker
[22:17] <chrisccoulson> i added all the disconnected outputs reported by xrandr -q to my xorg.conf
[22:17] <chrisccoulson> but it doesn't affect bug 854986
[22:17] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 854986 in xorg-server "5 second delay between Xorg starting and the greeter starting (Dell Latitude E6410)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854986
[22:18] <bryceh> chrisccoulson, hmm
[22:19] <chrisccoulson> 1 second, brb
[22:20] <chrisccoulson> yeah, so probing went from ~0.5s to ~0.13s
[22:21] <bryceh> chrisccoulson, interesting, but Xorg startup is exactly the same?
[22:21] <chrisccoulson> bryceh, yeah, it looks like it
[22:21] <chrisccoulson> bryceh, yeah, still ~5s
[22:22] <RAOF> It seems like you've only got one monitor plugged in, right?
[22:22] <RAOF> X shouldn't be setting a mode at all in that case.
[22:22] <chrisccoulson> RAOF, i've just got the laptop screen atm
[22:24] <bryceh> ohhh
[22:24] <bryceh> eDP1
[22:24] <RAOF> Which is why I'm surprised that setdesiredmodes is taking so long.
[22:24] <RAOF> Yeah, eDP modesetting is not necessarily the fastest thing you could stick in your startup path :)
[22:25] <bryceh> chrisccoulson, try connecting a monitor, and disabling everything but that (i.e. disable the eDP1 output)
[22:25] <bryceh> RAOF, was just 1 week ago keithp was telling us the woe that is eDP
[22:27] <chrisccoulson> ok, i'll try that
[22:27] <RAOF> And both nouveau and intel performed major surgery on their eDP stacks to make modesetting on the new MBAs work :)
[22:27] <chrisccoulson> need to go back upstairs for that though
[22:27] <htorque> bryceh: bug 855133 - i will see if it's only HDMI1 for me like for soren.
[22:27] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 855133 in xorg "Xrandr probing slow" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/855133
[22:27] <bryceh> htorque, ok thanks
[22:27] <bryceh> soren, ok now on to your bug
[22:30] <chrisccoulson> ok, brb
[22:31]  * RAOF thinks chrisccoulson needs a second, dedicated IRC machine :)
[22:33] <chrisccoulson> bryceh, it was ~3.6s on that boot with eDP1 disabled
[22:34] <bryceh> ok that sounds better
[22:34] <bryceh> ideally I'd want to see ~1 sec
[22:34] <bryceh> or 2 sec max
[22:34] <chrisccoulson> and it looks like all of that saving came from xf86SetDesiredModes
[22:35] <chrisccoulson> i patched my system here to log extra points :)
[22:35] <RAOF> Yeah.
[22:35] <RAOF> That would be because you're no longer modesetting the eDP.
[22:36] <htorque> bryceh: fwiw, it's also HDMI1 here.
[22:36] <chrisccoulson> the other big delay seems to be here:
[22:36] <chrisccoulson> [    11.508] drmOpenDevice: open result is 12, (OK)
[22:36] <chrisccoulson> [    13.231] drmOpenByBusid: Searching for BusID pci:0000:00:02.0
[22:36] <RAOF> ???
[22:37] <RAOF> Your machine is weird.
[22:37] <chrisccoulson> heh
[22:37] <bryceh> chrisccoulson, final question - is this a regression?  Did the boot speed work properly in natty or in oneiric with an earlier kernel version?
[22:38] <RAOF> On my x200s the whole DRM open stuff takes less time than the resolution of the timer.
[22:38] <chrisccoulson> bryceh, good question. it's a new laptop
[22:38] <bryceh> chrisccoulson, ok
[22:38] <chrisccoulson> i gave up on my old one because boot time was in the order of minutes ;)
[22:38] <bryceh> ok that chalks up.  I think eDP just sucks this way
[22:38] <bryceh> can you return it?  (kidding!!!)
[22:38] <chrisccoulson> heh
[22:39] <bryceh> chrisccoulson, I've forwarded your bug upstream.  Don't get hopes up this'll be fixed by release; from what keithp said, they're having serious troubles getting eDP to work right... the hardware design itself seems to be to blame
[22:39] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok. thanks
[22:40] <RAOF> Yeah.  There's lots of "set this thing and wait x hundreds of ms, then do this other thing, and wait again".
[22:42] <Sarvatt> did I hear eDP? chrisccoulson, mind trying this kernel? http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~sarvatt/macbook-air/
[22:43] <Sarvatt> lots of huge delays peppered into the eDP modesetting code trying to make it work right because they didnt know what was going wrong, they're reworking it for 3.2
[22:43] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok. i'll give that a try
[22:46] <RAOF> I wonder what's happening in your 2 seconds of drm probing?
[22:46] <chrisccoulson> 1 second, brb
[22:46] <RAOF> NOOOOOO! Unity's alt-tab switcher has regressed to being more annoying again.
[22:47] <RAOF> GARGH!  *Raise* the window you give focus to, please!
[22:48] <bryceh> soren, ok, forwarded your bug report as well.  Sounds like HDMI1 just needs quirked off and then it's good.  Maybe they have an idea for a  more general fix
[22:48] <bryceh> I've added the ubuntu kernel team as well
[22:49] <chrisccoulson> Sarvatt, wow, that brings it down to around ~2s (with the eDP output enabled), and also fixes my ~5s modprobe issue too
[22:49] <Sarvatt> chrisccoulson: argh
[22:49] <chrisccoulson> 15 seconds to a usable session now, including entering my password
[22:49] <chrisccoulson> that's impressive!
[22:49] <RAOF> chrisccoulson: Does it also fix your crazy 2 second pause during drm loading in Xorg.0.log?
[22:50] <chrisccoulson> hang on a minute, i've got to reboot again, just to see it more than once
[22:52] <Sarvatt> chrisccoulson: its about 100K worth of patches on top of oneiric's kernel, hearing that makes me think its really needed but way too much to SRU at this point so I dont know wth to do
[22:52] <chrisccoulson> RAOF, i still get a pause during drm loading (~1.2s)
[22:53] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm not too sure either
[22:53] <RAOF> Working modesetting is worth an extra 10sec boot time.
[22:53] <chrisccoulson> it certainly would be nice to claw back some of the startup performance that we've lost over the last couple of cycles
[22:54] <chrisccoulson> http://ubuntuone.com/2zvoxdrCCAdn2K42yBHHdI
[22:54] <chrisccoulson> not sure if that works yet ;)
[22:54] <RAOF> Working modesetting *without* the extra 10sec boot time could wait until P, I guess.
[22:54] <bryceh> Sarvatt, is that a backport of upstream git or something?
[22:55] <chrisccoulson> so, that link i shared is my *new* bootchart :)
[22:55] <chrisccoulson> i'm really happy with that ;)
[22:55] <chrisccoulson> that's taken around ~7s off it
[22:55] <bryceh> chrisccoulson, well in your case seems we've narrowed it to eDP, which is new HW that's just plain badly supported, so not the source of the lossages ;-)
[22:55] <Sarvatt> bryceh: keithp got a macbook air which is one of the few eDP machines and is trying to make it work, and in the process rewrote eDP modesetting quite a lot but its still not 100% yet
[22:56] <RAOF> And nouveau's rewritten their eDP support likewise.
[22:58] <bryceh> chrisccoulson, upstream has a question on it-
[22:58] <bryceh> Can we get an strace of X starting along with a perf report? Something like
[22:58] <bryceh> strace -t -o x.strace X -ac
[22:58] <bryceh> perf record -f -g -a X -ac && perf report | cat > x.perf
[22:58] <jasoncwarner_> hey robert_ancell TheMuso RAOF and bryceh meeting time.
[22:58] <jasoncwarner_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-09-20
[22:59] <bryceh> jasoncwarner_, heya
[22:59] <jasoncwarner_> hey bryceh , how are things?
[22:59] <chrisccoulson> bryceh, it doesn't need to be a cold start does it?
[22:59] <RAOF> We interrupt your regularly scheduled bootperformance hackfest to bring you the Desktop meeting :)
[22:59] <bryceh> heh
[22:59] <chrisccoulson> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/80459240/farnsworth-oneiric-20110920-16.png will make jasoncwarner_ happy ;)
[23:00] <bryceh> jasoncwarner_, going good.  raof and I had a good time at the X conference last week, lots of good convo's
[23:00] <kenvandine> chrisccoulson, nice!
[23:00] <TheMuso> Hey folks.
[23:00] <chrisccoulson> kenvandine, that's thanks to RAOF, bryceh and Sarvatt ;)
[23:00] <jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: ~15s? i do like that !
[23:00] <chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, yeah, it was >25s yesterday
[23:00] <kenvandine> now get that with unity-3d :)
[23:01] <jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: that is exactly the trend we need ;)
[23:01] <bryceh> just getting back into the swing of things today.  Fixed (I think) one of the release bugs pitti posted about today, and trying to tackle some X boot speed issues (slow output probing), which seems HW-specific so far
[23:01] <jasoncwarner_> bryceh: nice...
[23:01] <jasoncwarner_> let's get the meeting cranking
[23:01] <robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, very impressive
[23:01] <jasoncwarner_> [TOPIC] X update
[23:02] <bryceh> oh...  as above.
[23:02] <bryceh> RAOF, anything to add?
[23:02] <Sarvatt> chrisccoulson: dont get too happy at that, the code was literally rewritten in the kernel yesterday and still isnt working properly so is some time off and is only fixing up your eDP machine (there are like 10 eDP i915 laptops total in the wild)
[23:02] <RAOF> Did some triage of Xserver bugs; it looks like a bunch of them were accidentally fixed by the 1.10.4 upload.
[23:02] <chrisccoulson> Sarvatt, that's ok, that works for me ;)
[23:02] <jasoncwarner_> bryceh: ok...thanks...
[23:03] <RAOF> I'm pretty sure I've got bug #831867 nailed down, and just need to test.
[23:03] <Sarvatt> my i915 LVDS machines with SSDs have <10 second boot times here  the whole cycle
[23:03] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 831867 in sane-backends "colord assert failure: colord: browser.c:701: avahi_service_browser_free: Assertion `*_head == _item' failed." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831867
[23:03] <bryceh> http://www.bryceharrington.org/Arsenal/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/totals-oneiric-workqueue.svg looks nasty, but I thinkj that's mainly a slew of False GPU lockup bugs we can ignore
[23:03] <jasoncwarner_> RAOF: oh, nice!
[23:03] <Sarvatt> (sorry for interrupting the meeting)
[23:03] <jasoncwarner_> colord was causing some weird startup slowness, correct?
[23:04] <bryceh> oh, I got a solid lead on the false gpu lockups chatting with Intel.  but will probably need to wait until next cycle to experiment with
[23:04] <jasoncwarner_> let's move to LightDM/Unity-Greeter... robert_ancell ?
[23:04] <RAOF> No; the gnome-settings-daemon color plugin was doing xrandr probes on startup, and that's expensive.
[23:05] <robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, I'll try and get one more release in before beta2 to fix some minor issues.  The important issue seems to be crashing in the greeter due to the indicators being threaded.  I've changed them to load sequentially in a thread and it seems more stable now
[23:05] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: cool...ok...
[23:06] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: the greeter you had me test that seems to help with my laginess, is that released generally yet?
[23:06] <robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, yes, that should be the latest one.  The most recent logs seemed to indicate it was round trip time to X that was the problem, and the stuff people have been finding in gnome-settings-daemon seems to confirm that
[23:07] <robert_ancell> The very last one I sent you had g-s-d disabled, which indicated that is probably the cause
[23:07] <robert_ancell> unfortunately we can't do that in general ;)
[23:07] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: yeah...I was just getting lag again so was wondering what was up...now i know! :)
[23:08] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell, bryceh and RAOF you guys have clues on what is going on in U-G with X for a possible fix?
[23:09] <robert_ancell> the logs showed a big initial delay, which is probably xrandr blocking the X server.
[23:09] <RAOF> g-s-d causes boot slowdowns?  What a surprise!
[23:09] <bryceh> U-G?
[23:10] <jasoncwarner_> bryceh: unity-greeter...I've taken to the custom of shortening everything ;)
[23:10] <robert_ancell> The ongoing lagginess was shown in the mouse right, which indicates the X server not keeping up
[23:10] <bryceh> well, we have been suspecting output-probing related issues, perhaps a regression with vga probing, but so far haven't pinpointed it to that
[23:10] <robert_ancell> RAOF, you could reproduce it right?
[23:11] <jasoncwarner_> Ok...sounds like we have some clues, but nothing too exact yet...thanks.
[23:11] <bryceh> chrisccoulson has isolated some X-related delays to be due to g-s-d over-querying randr, thus exacerbating the probing issue
[23:11] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Yeah.  I sent you the traces.
[23:11] <jasoncwarner_> TheMuso: care to update on a11y, sound and all that good stuff?
[23:11] <bryceh> i.e., it's slow to probe to begin with, and then GNOME requests re-probing multiple times
[23:11] <RAOF> Something was probing xrandr, causing the delays.
[23:12] <RAOF> But I'm not sure what, because the xtrace of unity-greeter didn't show RANDR requests.
[23:12] <TheMuso> Ok, we should finally be over all the a11y related upgrade issues, pitti and myself spent some time on Monday afternoon sorting that out, so that should be good now.
[23:12] <chrisccoulson> bryceh, 6 times on the default install :)
[23:12] <chrisccoulson> and that's before anything else in the session begins to load
[23:12] <TheMuso> I've had reports from users saying that the stuff I recently added to make using a11y on the live CD is not working, but I suspect they are either not doing something right, or are not using a recent daily, or are using beta 1. Need to run through things myself once again to be sure, hope to do that today/tomorrow, so I can get any fixes in post beta 2 if they are needed.
[23:13] <chrisccoulson> i added my findings to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/11.10/BootSpeedAnalysis for anyone who is interested
[23:13] <TheMuso> Still need to fix accessibility for notifications, as they are broken. May file a bug against notify-osd to make sure its known by DX, in case someone like Alehandro has time to look at it...
[23:13] <TheMuso> But I am going to try and fix it myself if I can.
[23:14] <TheMuso> Audio wise, a few more bug fixes post beta 2, but nothing major.
[23:14] <TheMuso> So things are starting to wrap up on my end.
[23:14] <jasoncwarner_> TheMuso: how is accessibility in ubuiquity? I believe you said you needed to do some more testing there last week ?
[23:15] <TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: Yeah its usable, needs more work cleaning up widget names, but thats one goal for 12.04. A user can still get through and work out what is what and get the system installed.
[23:16] <jasoncwarner_> TheMuso: ok...cool...would you say that, using Unity-2d, we have a fully accessible desktop?
[23:16] <TheMuso> Not yet, still waiting on more bugfixes from the 2d guys
[23:16] <TheMuso> But the only critical thing that is missing is the quicklists and no access to the panel.
[23:17] <TheMuso> The dash is mostly usable, and hopefully will be more so after next week's upload.
[23:17] <jasoncwarner_> TheMuso: ok...sounds florian is making 'em a priority. let me know if it looks like something si going to fall short so we can get it reprioritized.
[23:17] <jasoncwarner_> thanks!
[23:17] <jasoncwarner_> ok...
[23:17] <TheMuso> ok
[23:17] <jasoncwarner_> [TOPIC] Any other Business?
[23:18] <jasoncwarner_> anyone want to add anything ?
[23:18] <TheMuso> nope
[23:19] <jasoncwarner_> alright...thank everyone
[23:19] <RAOF> Nor here.
[23:19] <jasoncwarner_> [END MEETING]
[23:19] <bryceh> thanks
[23:20] <robert_ancell> bryceh, hey, does failsafe X work now?  LightDM now exits if it can't start an X server / greeter but I'm not sure if the code is there to trigger failsafe X from upstart
[23:20] <bryceh> robert_ancell, the code should be there, but I haven't had a chance to test it again since before XDC
[23:21] <robert_ancell> bryceh, ok
[23:21] <bryceh> robert_ancell, at least the udev rule ought to be firing
[23:22] <bryceh> robert_ancell, I plan to play with it some more this week once I'm though some of these release bugs
[23:23] <robert_ancell> ok, let me know if lightdm behaves badly
[23:23] <bryceh> robert_ancell, right will do
[23:27] <bryceh> htorque, ok tackled your bug report too - I've sent it upstream with your comments
[23:29] <htorque> bryceh: thanks! :)
[23:29] <bryceh> htorque, yours and soren's look very similar, possibly dupes.  but will let upstream decide.
[23:31] <htorque> bryceh: yeah, thought so. also, we are both using thinkpads (though not the same models).
[23:36] <cyphermox> robert_ancell: planning to go for a beer on some evening during hackfest? :)
[23:37] <htorque> robert_ancell: hi! fyi, with bug 855133 worked around, bug 828112 is fixed for me. no lagging whatsoever.
[23:37] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 855133 in linux "Xrandr probing slow" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/855133
[23:37] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 828112 in unity-greeter "Password field feedback slow at times" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/828112
[23:40] <robert_ancell> cyphermox, which hackfest (though the answer is almost certainly yes)
[23:40] <robert_ancell> htorque, yes!  Can we get jasoncwarner_ to test that too?
[23:41] <cyphermox> robert_ancell: beginning of October in Montreal
[23:41] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: update and test? I rebooted yesterday and still had it (will reboot again here shortly)
[23:41] <robert_ancell> cyphermox, you'll be there?  then of course!
[23:42] <cyphermox> robert_ancell: I live a few minutes away, and work a few days a week from the Montreal office :)
[23:43] <robert_ancell> sweet
[23:47] <htorque> jasoncwarner_: are you using a thinkpad by any chance?
[23:47] <jasoncwarner_> htorque: I am...x220
[23:48] <jasoncwarner_> htorque: and I've heard of others using the 220 that see the same thing...
[23:48] <jasoncwarner_> htorque: are you using thinkpad?
[23:49] <htorque> jasoncwarner_: great! can you follow the description in bug 855124 and create or add that to your /etc/X11/xorg.conf? - yes, i'm using a thinkpad too (T510).
[23:49] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 855124 in linux "XRANDR operations very slow unless (phantom) HDMI1 disabled" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/855124
[23:50] <htorque> after that you hopefully shouldn't get any more lagging at the unity-greeter.
[23:53] <jasoncwarner_> htorque: where is the xorg.conf? I don't have one in /etc/X11
[23:53] <htorque> in that case create one
[23:53] <htorque> (at /etc/X11/xorg.conf, yes)
[23:54] <jasoncwarner_> ok
[23:54] <jasoncwarner_> that is kind of what i was wondering :) thanks
[23:55] <jasoncwarner_> htorque robert_ancell be back in a few...testing it...