[03:12] <Sadin> pleia2 heh im not a ubuntu user anymore but i thought you might like my recent project ive acquired in the fedora design team
[03:12] <Sadin> im building a fedora styled xfce theme for default when you install xfce on fedora :)
[03:13] <Sadin> woo xfce :D
[03:13] <pleia2> Sadin: cool, in xubuntu we work with the upstream shimmer project (http://shimmerproject.org)
[03:15] <Sadin> pleia2 thats really cool!
[03:15] <Sadin> those are very very clean themes
[03:15] <pleia2> yeah, they do a really nice job
[03:16] <pleia2> we use greybird in xubuntu
[03:16] <Sadin> it looks amazing
[03:17] <Sadin> itll be hard for me to make something that nice lol
[03:17] <pleia2> they can always use help :) you could join them
[03:18] <Sadin> pleia2 i would love to but is that only a ubuntu group or something?
[03:18] <pleia2> no, it's upstream
[03:18] <Sadin> oh!
[03:19] <pleia2> "We, as a collective are not part of any particular project. Our individuals, however, are members of various communities."
[03:19] <Sadin> ill have to see if they have a irc channel
[03:19] <Sadin> :O
[03:19] <Sadin> that sounds awesome!
[03:19] <pleia2> #shimmer
[03:19] <pleia2> most of them are in europe, so you'll have better luck talking to them in the morning
[03:20] <Sadin> pleia2 ah i see then ill have to on the weekend highschool wouldnt let me do that :D
[03:20]  * pleia2 nods
[03:20] <pleia2> most of the people idle there, so you can introduce yourself, I can tell them who you are too
[03:21] <pleia2> (I lurk in there because I work on xubuntu, I can design myself out of a paper bag)
[03:21] <Sadin> alright thanks plei2
[03:21] <Sadin> woops
[03:21] <Sadin> pleia2
[03:21] <pleia2> sure thing
[03:21] <Sadin> i dont preffer one OS over the other i just love xfce :)
[03:21] <pleia2> yeah, I used xfce on debian and gentoo before I switched to *buntu
[03:22] <Sadin> its a solid WM i just think the defaults fedora comes with now are too.. un appealing
[03:22] <pleia2> hehe
[03:23] <Sadin> and sure you can download them from deviant art people or xfce look but it would be cool if xfce just came shipped with soemthing better no matter what distro you use
[03:24] <pleia2> yeah, the shimmer project wants to "make open source beautiful"
[03:24] <pleia2> which is a nice thing :)
[03:24] <Sadin> exactly :O
[03:24] <Sadin> i completely agree
[07:06] <Traveler> Hello anyone awake?  I cannot get pidgin restarted.  It hangs at Buddies: Available - Connecting....
[07:17] <InHisName> Well, !   I finally got re-connected.   Don't know what was wrong or right.
[10:37] <JonathanD> Morning.
[10:43] <rmg51> morning JonathanD
[10:44] <JonathanD> Hey rmg51
[17:41] <MobileTurkey> waltman: you around?
[17:42] <waltman> Drexel? No, not today.
[17:45] <MobileTurkey> ok
[17:45] <MobileTurkey> I need fricken Db access to this thing but I barely know how to work mysql anyway
[17:50] <MobileTurkey> anyone understand mysql?
[17:50] <MobileTurkey> I sure don't
[18:11] <JonathanD> what do you need to do
[18:11] <JonathanD> ?
[18:12] <MobileTurkey> well still working out accessing the database
[18:12] <MobileTurkey> was getting an error ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2)
[18:13] <MobileTurkey> but I emailed some guy, he says mysql daemon only accepts local connections.
[18:13] <MobileTurkey> doesnt that just mean I have to be ssh'd in?
[21:16] <ChinnoDog> hi ssweeny
[21:16] <ssweeny> hi ChinnoDog
[21:59] <InHisName> too busy to type.   with 2 tiny kids to care for right now.   Hi everyone.   bbl8tr
[22:01] <Sadin> InHisName lol
[23:39] <MutantTurkey> watched the watchmen yesterday prety good
[23:44] <Sadin> MutantTurkey suggestion for you
[23:45] <Sadin> look into this possibly. http://shimmer.org
[23:45] <Sadin> shoot
[23:45] <Sadin> http://shimmerproject.org
[23:54] <Sadin> Pliea2 just proposed shipping a shimmer project theme or all of them with the fedora xfce spin on our mailing lists :P


[16:05] <MikeRL> Possibly Ubuntu related - a few days after upgrading to Firefox 29 using the official packages, every time I try to update my addons Firefox just says "updating add-ons" forever. I'm wondering if an addon or something else could cause this. Any way to be sure?
[16:07] <MikeRL> Wait, operating on a hunch. Maybe one of the recent addons I installed is causing this. Could be Privacy Badger.
[16:08] <MikeRL> I'll try disabling my addons one by one until I find the culprit. If that doesn't work, I'll ask for more help. If I find the culprit, perhaps someone has an idea of where to go from there.


[03:18] <Dan9186[MM]> anyone around?
[03:18] <cyberanger> no, not round, just a square ;-)
[03:18] <cyberanger> what's up Dan9186[MM]
[03:19] <Dan9186[MM]> i've got someone needing a web based time clock solution, was gonna see if anyone had suggestions for em
[03:20] <cyberanger> are they wanting to host it?
[03:20] <cyberanger> or just embed one?
[03:21] <cyberanger> I was a fan of (well, still am, I just don't need it, gotten so used to things it's all in my head now) http://www.timeanddate.com/
[03:22] <cyberanger> Dan9186[MM]: I'd have to know more to recommend something specific
[03:23] <Dan9186[MM]> he's pretty well open to just about anything
[03:23] <cyberanger> but that tool had helped many I know (plus myself till memory picked up the task)
[03:23] <Dan9186[MM]> if it needs to be hosted here i think it will be, if it works from the cloud then great
[03:24] <Dan9186[MM]> hmm, time clock as in clock in for work clock out for work
[03:24] <Dan9186[MM]> etc
[03:24] <cyberanger> of course, if you want your tax dollars at work http://www.time.gov ain't bad, just dunno how I'd embed it
[03:24] <cyberanger> aka punching the clock
[03:24] <Dan9186[MM]> yup
[03:25] <cyberanger> uh, yeah, that reminds me, I was gonna shoot you a list of stuff for that
[03:26] <cyberanger> which isn't on this machine, must be on my desktop
[03:26] <Dan9186[MM]> hehe
[03:26] <Dan9186[MM]> rofl
[03:26] <cyberanger> when are you gonna be on next time, or do you have an email addy I can shoot it too
[03:26] <Dan9186[MM]> is ok i think he just found something he wants to try
[03:27] <Dan9186[MM]> ...i never log out of here, but feel free to e-mail me at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:27]  * cyberanger wonders why when these things happen, he's allways away from the machine that has what's needed
[03:28] <cyberanger> Dan9186[MM]: um, I should have asked for you to obsfucate that or PM it
[03:28] <cyberanger> google has it's hands on it, thus so will spambots
[03:29] <cyberanger> well, if you want the list, I can get that this week (thanksgivining should have all my machines in the same room)
[03:51] <Dan9186[MM]> oh well, spambots can have it, does not matter to me
[11:01]  * cyberanger just repaired his wifi card & volia
[11:01] <cyberanger> it works
[11:33] <wrst> cool cyberanger
[11:34] <cyberanger> wrst: didn't expect you to be up at 5:30
[11:34] <wrst> that's my get up time cyberanger
[11:35] <wrst> thankfully it wont be for the next four days after today
[11:35] <cyberanger> hehe, well all the more reason to celebrate
[11:36] <cyberanger> I had to rewire the antennas, then run rfkill to clear the card again
[11:37] <cyberanger> but I knew it was an antenna issue or something of that nature
[11:38] <cyberanger> so it's all fixed, woot
[11:40] <wrst> cool cyberanger
[11:40] <wrst> how did you figure all of that out?
[11:41] <cyberanger> for once, a nice clean error message was straight forward
[11:41] <cyberanger> not to metion the timing of things
[11:42] <cyberanger> my monitor has it's housing failing, on most laptops have the antennas in the housing too
[11:42] <wrst> ok didn't know that either cyberanger
[11:42] <cyberanger> so combind the two, plus it was wifi, I had only two places to look
[11:42]  * wrst takes notes
[11:43] <cyberanger> since software was working the day before the error, but the housing issue got worse in between, rather convinent
[12:10] <cyberanger> wrst: one of the most logical issues, with one of the most simple error messages, the only tricky part was taking apart the laptop to fix it all
[12:38] <wrst> yeah cyberanger that's something i have never done much of, well i did take my brothers netbook apart
[12:38] <wrst> but i didnt' realize taht the antennas usually resided in the lid
[13:32] <cyberanger> that's common, but I don't think all are that way
[13:32] <cyberanger> maybe they are, idk
[13:33] <cyberanger> but it seems to be real common on the machines I've seen personally
[13:40] <wrst> that's good to know cyberanger
[13:41] <wrst> i know on that netbook it had wires going to the antenna but didn't know where they were at but i suspect in the lid also and that makes sense that's the highest point
[14:41] <cyberanger> & the point you raise up like a linksys wrt54gl
[14:42] <cyberanger> less metal, only thin plastic (my case it's too thin)
[14:50] <wrst> i have been researching some laptops cyberanger i think in the next few months i may have to have one when my screen falls off
[15:04] <cyberanger> yours too
[15:06] <cyberanger> that's my issue
[15:06] <cyberanger> plastic broke, sorta like a stripped screw
[15:06] <cyberanger> dumb kensington lock
[15:10] <wrst> yeah cyberanger its cracking around the hinge and starting to hang open
[15:11] <wrst> i would love to buy from zareason or system76 but the big box guys have a lot better deals on better hardware
[15:34] <cyberanger> I'd like empror penguin's toughbooks
[15:37] <wrst> i will check them out cyberanger
[15:43] <wrst> ahh yes i have looked at them, they dont' look like  the most modern looking stuff in the world
[15:47] <cyberanger> true, but they just don't break
[15:48] <cyberanger> it might be overkill, it certainly kills my wallet, but I do want it sturdy
[15:49] <cyberanger> it doesn't have to be a toughbook, but toughbooks just don't break
[15:53] <wrst> yeah i was speaking of all their stuff isn't the most modern in the world
[15:54] <wrst> when i get there i may go with an HP or ASUS seems to be a decent balance of price/quality
[15:54] <wrst> i would love to buy a macbook pro but my goodness they are crazy expensive
[15:55] <cyberanger> I'm replacing a 2 & 1/2 year old HP
[15:56] <cyberanger> quality varies in brands too, not just between them
[15:57] <wrst> oh yes agreed
[15:57] <wrst> i have about a 3 year old gateway
[15:57] <wrst> it was a 499 tiger direct special 3 years is about what i suspected
[15:58] <wrst> i really want one that has opensource drivers that work for it, but video i'm not so sure about i really like nvidia as far as video goes
[16:21] <Xpistos> Morning er body
[16:21] <Xpistos> wrst
[16:22] <wrst> hey Xpistos
[16:22] <wrst> what's going on?
[16:27] <Xpistos> not much
[16:27] <Xpistos> slow day at work
[16:45] <cyberanger> hey Xpistos
[16:45] <Xpistos> hey dude
[16:46] <cyberanger> wrst: video is a mess, open, closed, broken or old
[16:46] <cyberanger> intel, chip, open, old
[16:51] <wrst> cyberanger:  i really have no issues with nvidia using their driver
[16:52] <wrst> ati on the other hand ....
[16:53] <cyberanger> it depends on the card too, we are talking drivers after all
[16:54] <cyberanger> plus it was a broad comment, meant more as a statement for an area of improvement
[16:56] <wrst> agreed on that but i've foudn that with modern nvidia stuff i've had no issues really
[16:58] <cyberanger> I found one, the pricetag
[16:58] <wrst> that is true but it works
[17:33] <cyberanger> my wallet disagrees on it working here ;-)
[17:38]  * cyberanger is considering giving ntpd & gpsd another try, after reading more info on it today, might have found the missing issue from my last try
[18:18] <cyberanger> Dan9186[MM]: are you still needing that list, I can get it tommorow
[18:20] <wrst> cyberanger: when i was pricing cards for my desktop not a huge difference but in laptops seems to be a huge difference
[19:07] <wrst> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/23/darily_ubuntu_updates/
[20:02] <cyberanger> well, it's laptops i use the most, but even desktops can be overboard when integrated would do
[20:04] <wrst> well if you never use graphics i suppose so cyberanger :P
[22:14] <wrst> mhall119: i am enjoying your facebook post :)
[22:19] <mhall119> thanks
[22:25] <wrst> you are welcome


 :P
[07:33] <Symmetria> the last time germany destroyed a country on home turf like that... poland... 1939 ;p
[07:35] <psyatw> haha
[07:36] <Symmetria> though the last time germany had this much success in south america, they were hiding from war crime tribunals
[07:44] <psyatw> after the war germans moved wholescale to north and south america
[07:44] <psyatw> http://www.globalresearch.ca/operation-nazification-u-s-military-hired-sixteen-hundred-nazi-scientists-and-doctors/5369981
[07:47] <charl> hi psyatw
[07:47] <charl> hi Vince-0
[07:48] <psyatw> hi charl
[07:49] <Kilos> hi Vince-0
[07:49] <Kilos> lo nuvolari
[07:49] <charl> i happen to have only seen the good part of yesterday evening's football - the part where they scored like 4 goals in 10 mins or something
[07:49] <charl> it was amazing
[07:50] <charl> hi nuvolari
[07:50] <psyatw> hi Vince-0
[07:50] <psyatw> but the Brazilians were also very willing victims
[07:50] <charl> psyatw: we are raining out in NL ! yesterday and today i came with the bus, didn't even feel like trying the bicycle
[07:50] <psyatw> especially when the Germans put some pressure on their defense
[07:51] <psyatw> charl, it was raining here too yesterday! that isn't very common in Poland during summer and in general anyway
[07:51] <charl> ah
[07:52] <charl> it is very silent here at work right now - too many people are all on leave
[07:52] <charl> not a good time to go though :P
[07:52] <charl> maybe if you go far away
[07:52] <psyatw> haha
[07:52] <psyatw> yeah
[07:52] <psyatw> definitely not in the Netherlands :D
[07:53] <psyatw> I remember there was a summer many years ago when it rained all summer long
[07:53] <Vince-0> o/
[07:53] <charl> bah i hope it isn't one of them
[07:53] <Vince-0> what's happanan
[07:53] <charl> i have kind of seen enough of it the last two months
[07:56] <psyatw> maybe I got lucky when I was in the Netherlands at the end of May and the beginning of June
[07:57] <Kilos> not much Vince-0
[07:57] <Kilos> too cold to type even
[07:58] <charl> psyatw: yes that was exactly the right time - between then and now it's been raining constantly
[08:02] <Vince-0> its 11 degrees here this morn
[08:11] <Kilos> yip durbs is a lekker place
[08:11] <Kilos> we were in the minusses
[08:17] <Kilos> hi Xethron
[08:23] <arnaudmez> Helly guys
[08:23] <arnaudmez> Hello Guys
[08:23] <arnaudmez> hi Symmetria:
[08:23] <arnaudmez> hi Kilos
[08:23] <arnaudmez> hi superfly
[08:23] <arnaudmez> hi inetpro
[08:23] <nuvolari> oh hi oom Kilos
[08:24] <charl> hi arnaudmez
[08:24] <nuvolari> you skinnering about me? :P
[08:24] <nuvolari> hi charl, arnaudmez, Vince-0
[08:24] <nuvolari> oh, you skinnering about Vince-0
[08:24]  * nuvolari is off the hook
[08:26] <Symmetria> hrm
[08:26] <Symmetria> I need to know how large the entire ubuntu-archive file set is
[08:27] <psyatw> hi Xethron
[08:27] <psyatw> hoi nuvolari
[08:27] <psyatw> hello arnaudmez
[08:27] <psyatw> French?
[08:27] <arnaudmez> hi psyatw
[08:28] <arnaudmez> psyatw: yes french
[08:28] <psyatw> arnaudmez, cool, are you in South Africa now?
[08:30] <charl> no he's congonese, they speak french in a large part of africa
[08:30] <charl> particularly west africa
[08:30] <arnaudmez> psyatw: not at all
[08:30] <arnaudmez> psyatw: Congo Brazzaville
[08:31] <charl> psyatw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_French#African_countries_with_the_largest_numbers_of_French_speakers
[08:31] <charl> Democratic Republic of the Congo: 24,320,000 people can speak French either as a first or second language
[08:31] <Kilos> hi arnaudmez
[08:31] <Kilos> never nuvolari
[08:32] <Symmetria> heh interestingly enough, the largest spoken language on the african continent is neither french nor english
[08:32] <Symmetria> and its not swahili either
[08:32] <Symmetria> nor is it portuguese :)
[08:32] <Symmetria> anyone care to take a guess? ;p
[08:32] <charl> looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Africa right now
[08:33] <Kilos> haha
[08:33] <psyatw> arnaudmez, nice to see you here
[08:33] <arnaudmez> psyatw: this is actually my country http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congo_Brazzaville
[08:33] <Kilos> Symmetria, you going to do the deb-delta as well?
[08:34] <psyatw> charl, I know
[08:34] <Kilos> i think the sizes are about 40g per release plus flavours
[08:34] <Kilos> not sure what all you want to install there
[08:36] <psyatw> arnaudmez, I will read that article, thanks
[08:37] <psyatw> charl, my mother went to Gambia for a week back in 2006, I haven't been to the continent yet myself
[08:38] <arnaudmez> psyatw: where are you living right now ?
[08:39] <charl> psyatw: ah very nice !
[08:41] <psyatw> arnaudmez, I live in Poland now, I have never lived outside of Europe (except for the 8 first months of my life in my country of birth Suriname)
[08:42] <arnaudmez> psyatw: cool
[08:43] <psyatw> arnaudmez, and until about a year ago I lived in the Netherlands, just like charl
[08:44] <arnaudmez> that's good psyatw
[08:44] <arnaudmez> very good
[08:44] <arnaudmez> how is linux community there ?
[08:45] <arnaudmez> or if i may say Ubuntu community
[08:45] <psyatw> I think here in Poland it's pretty good actually
[08:45] <psyatw> there are many development conferences
[08:45] <psyatw> even though I haven't attended any so far
[08:45] <arnaudmez> :D
[08:48] <psyatw> http://lanyrd.com/places/poland/
[08:48] <psyatw> I wanted to attend some, but then I got busy with work and travel
[10:20] <bduk> More almal
[10:22] <Kilos> hi bduk
[10:23] <Kilos> middag eintlik
[10:26] <bduk> Ja oom was bietjie besig vanmore
[10:28] <Kilos> http://picpaste.com/screenshot_445957932-pSQR9Rjv.png
[12:51] <mazal> Bye veryone , have a nice evening
[13:42] <Kilos> hmm...
[16:03] <jabberwockya19_> has anyone looked at Google I/O talks on Polymer and Web Components?
[16:24] <superfly> I had a brief look at polymer.
[18:28] <Kilos> oh and uct seemed ok yesterday too
[18:28] <theblazehen> Main arch repos are faster than wa, unless you are a webafrica customer
[18:28] <Kilos> where you choose repos it shows main
[18:28] <ThatGraemeGuy> this isn't #arch-za, go away :P
[18:29] <theblazehen> lol
[18:29] <Kilos> i think its state side
[18:29] <Kilos> haha
[18:30] <theblazehen> pythong.org wut
[18:30] <theblazehen> warning: NSFW
[18:30] <Kilos> ubuntu.mirror.neology.co.za/ubuntu worked good this morning
[18:30] <ThatGraemeGuy> grrr
[18:31] <ThatGraemeGuy> will try thanks
[18:31] <Kilos> i have no idea where that is though
[18:32] <ThatGraemeGuy> if i can't get a working mirror i'm not getting minetest updated tonight
[18:32] <Kilos> http://ubuntu.mirror.neology.co.za/ubuntu
[18:32] <Kilos> i think i have that right
[18:32] <ThatGraemeGuy> nope, a bunch of 404s @$%
[18:32] <theblazehen> #arch-za has no users :(
[18:33] <Kilos> mine is reloading fine
[18:33] <Kilos> check my typing
[18:33] <theblazehen> ThatGraemeGuy: minetest uses lua for mods right?
[18:33]  * theblazehen is looking for a voxel game that can use C++ for mods
[18:34] <ThatGraemeGuy> it does
[18:34] <theblazehen> :/
[18:34] <ThatGraemeGuy> nobody in their right mind would base mods on c++
[18:34] <theblazehen> well yeah, I guess..
[18:34] <ThatGraemeGuy> you want your mod language to be accessible to many, easy to write and debug
[18:34] <theblazehen> But I wanna work on an AI project and need native speed
[18:35] <ThatGraemeGuy> AI is such a specialist field i can't see why you'd need an app that extensible via mods
[18:35] <ThatGraemeGuy> you want to have control from start to finish usually
[18:35] <theblazehen> Well hebbian learning networks
[18:35] <ThatGraemeGuy> Kilos: http://askubuntu.com/a/9035
[18:36] <ThatGraemeGuy> not sure if you knew about the mirror:// protocol, that worked for me
[18:36] <theblazehen> Want to be able to get them to learn how the game operates etc
[18:36]  * Kilos goes to see
[18:36] <ThatGraemeGuy> selects the fastest mirror, very useful
[18:36] <ThatGraemeGuy> on with the minetest, uh, .... testing
[18:36]  * nuvolari is about to have a bad stommack
[18:36]  * theblazehen <3's spotify
[18:37] <nuvolari> stresssss!
[18:37] <theblazehen> ai  nuvolari
[18:37] <Kilos> oh the gui has the option to select fastest mirror but that neology one worked kiff for me
[18:37] <nuvolari> I hope CT is ready for me! :D
[18:37] <Kilos> last best mirror run showed somewhere in netherlands
[18:37] <nuvolari> dunno if I'm ready for it
[18:38] <theblazehen> Kilos: maybe choose that one
[18:38] <Kilos> you moving there nuvolari ?
[18:38] <Kilos> nope man neology is fast
[18:38] <ThatGraemeGuy> it didn't work for me now
[18:38] <Kilos> ThatGraemeGuy, use the gui and see if it shows the neology mirror
[18:39] <ThatGraemeGuy> Kilos: are you playing?
[18:39] <nuvolari> Kilos: going for interviews oom
[18:39] <ThatGraemeGuy> use the gui on my guiless server? great plan :)
[18:39] <Kilos> good luck nuvolari
[18:39] <nuvolari> thanks oom Kilos
[18:39] <ThatGraemeGuy> where are you interviewing nuvolari?
[18:39] <Kilos> ThatGraemeGuy, nope im using it
[18:39] <Kilos> i promise
[18:39] <ThatGraemeGuy> Kilos: i think you've lost the plot :)
[18:39] <ThatGraemeGuy> never mind
[18:39] <ThatGraemeGuy> are you playing minetest at the moment?
[18:40] <theblazehen> when you transfer 30 GB in 3 days..
[18:40] <theblazehen> ooh and amount/day is gonna go up soon :)
[18:41] <Kilos> Maaz, ping http://ubuntu.mirror.neology.co.za/ubuntu
[18:41] <Maaz> Kilos: Error: unknown host http://ubuntu.mirror.neology.co.za/ubuntu
[18:41] <Kilos> eeek
[18:41] <nuvolari> ThatGraemeGuy: 5 places
[18:42] <ThatGraemeGuy> which 5? :-p
[18:42] <nuvolari> i is an interview for Discovery, in Sandton, but a Video Conference in CT :P
[18:42] <nuvolari> I could'nt get around to their offices here
[18:42] <ThatGraemeGuy> ew not my cup of tea
[18:42] <nuvolari> so I do all my interviews in 1 go
[18:42] <ThatGraemeGuy> i didn't even work a full year there :-/
[18:43] <Kilos> ThatGraemeGuy, http://picpaste.com/19-CPNVW4mN.png
[18:43] <nuvolari> why is that ThatGraemeGuy?
[18:44] <theblazehen> ThatGraemeGuy: Discovery?
[18:44] <Kilos> thats what is in my synaptic repository choose place
[18:44] <ThatGraemeGuy> ai oom Kilos, i've moved on already ;-)
[18:44] <Kilos> sorry
[18:44] <Kilos> i dont know why i cant ping it
[18:44] <ThatGraemeGuy> nuvolari: i found the corporate environment too restrictive
[18:45] <ThatGraemeGuy> Kilos: because you can't ping something starting "http://" ;-)
[18:45] <nuvolari> ThatGraemeGuy: oh boo :-/ That's what I'm afraid of
[18:45] <Kilos> oh
[18:45] <ThatGraemeGuy> yeah, big corporate IT isn't everyone's cup of tea
[18:45] <ThatGraemeGuy> but you won't know until you give it a go
[18:46] <nuvolari> I guess that's true
[18:46] <nuvolari> I'm pretty much after having freedom
[18:46] <nuvolari> or some of it
[18:46] <nuvolari> and people with the right mindset on how tech products should work
[18:46] <nuvolari> not putting the cart before the horses
[18:47] <nuvolari> I'm so fed up with that I can scream
[18:47] <ThatGraemeGuy> what sort of work are you looking for?
[18:47] <ThatGraemeGuy> i know we're looking for "devops" people
[18:47] <ThatGraemeGuy> i hate that term so very much
[18:47] <ThatGraemeGuy> but yea
[18:47] <ThatGraemeGuy> http://hetznercareers.theresumator.com/apply/7v3Qnk/Senior-Devops-Engineers.html
[18:48] <ThatGraemeGuy> http://www.hetzner.co.za/careers/career-opportunities <-- also call centre types but i guess you are beyond that
[18:48] <nuvolari> oh, and then 4i Mobile (like), Compuscan (meh-like), Discovery (maybe-like), OnNet (like-from-what-i-saw)
[18:49] <nuvolari> and friday, Afrozaar (thumbs-up-like), and Team Talk Media (like)
[18:49] <ThatGraemeGuy> cool
[18:49] <ThatGraemeGuy> best of luck :)
[18:49] <nuvolari> thanks :>
[18:50] <nuvolari> I wanted  to do devops when I started :P Wasn't really sure whether I want to do linux stuff or java stuff. Knew a bit more linux, but now my focus is on java
[18:53] <ThatGraemeGuy> Kilos: have you updated your minetest yet?
[18:53] <Kilos> nope that?
[18:53] <Kilos> ThatGraemeGuy,
[18:53] <nuvolari> The worst part about job-hunting again is having to catch up on what I've forgotten by this time :P
[18:53] <Kilos> command line?
[18:53] <nuvolari> ack, I have to go pack
[18:53] <Gremble> Why Java?
[18:53] <ThatGraemeGuy> ok you might want to update so long, when i'm done with the server upgrade you will probably need the new client
[18:54] <nuvolari> Gremble: why not java? It is stable, have good support, standards, widespread, trustworthy
[18:55] <nuvolari> I know it has its downfalls
[18:55] <nuvolari> but it makes up for that in tooling
[18:55] <Kilos> whew only 2 meg download. is that right?
[18:56] <ThatGraemeGuy> yeah it isn't big
[18:56] <Kilos> Gremble, nuvolari is our java man
[18:57] <nuvolari> ugh! thanks for asking Gremble :P I have to get some answers for what I dislike about java - a question I couldn't properly answer with another interview :P
[18:58] <Gremble> I feel racist toward Java. It I just discriminate indiscriminately :P So I like to hear what people like with it
[19:01] <Kilos> lol
[19:03] <Kilos> heres was a bonus ThatGraemeGuy
[19:03] <Kilos> http://picpaste.com/screenshot_445957932-pSQR9Rjv.png
[19:06] <ThatGraemeGuy> oooh mese blocks
[19:06] <ThatGraemeGuy> i've only found twice
[19:07] <ThatGraemeGuy> but by now i have so much mese i can make my own blocks already
[19:07] <Kilos> i have 18 now
[19:07] <ThatGraemeGuy> lekka
[19:07] <Kilos> how many mese in each one
[19:08] <nuvolari> didn't know this: Java has been criticized for not supporting arrays of more than 231−1 (about 2.1 billion) elements
[19:08] <Kilos> superfly, have you split a mese block yet?
[19:08] <nuvolari> that's 2³¹-1
[19:08] <superfly> Kilos: no
[19:08] <Kilos> lol
[19:09] <Kilos> i wonder how many they make
[19:09] <Kilos> diamonds are not too plentiful though ThatGraemeGuy
[19:10] <Kilos> especially if you mine lots of obsidian
[19:10] <ThatGraemeGuy> Kilos: 9 mese crystals in a block
[19:10] <Kilos> wow
[19:10] <nuvolari> ok, I'm out. Need to plack and sleep
[19:10] <nuvolari> g'night everyone
[19:10] <Kilos> night nuvolari
[19:10] <Kilos> sleep tight
[19:25]  * ThatGraemeGuy pings superfly
[19:27] <superfly> hi ThatGraemeGuy
[19:28] <ThatGraemeGuy> oh hey :)
[19:28] <ThatGraemeGuy> sorry, i stopped the server quickly
[19:28] <ThatGraemeGuy> upgrade time
[19:28] <superfly> np
[19:28] <ThatGraemeGuy> give me 15 mins
[19:30] <Kilos> now we gonna be able to teleport?
[19:30] <ThatGraemeGuy> teleport is a privilege, it has nothing to do with the new version
[19:31] <ThatGraemeGuy> but mesecons and home decor work
[19:31] <Kilos> that could save data hopefully, lots of travelling seems to eat data
[19:31] <ThatGraemeGuy> and tnt is improved
[19:31] <Kilos> oh
[19:31] <ThatGraemeGuy> boats and tnt are now part of the default game
[19:31] <Kilos> im scared of tnt lava is bad enough
[19:31] <ThatGraemeGuy> there are glass panes as well
[19:31] <ThatGraemeGuy> the way they updated tnt is cool
[19:31] <Kilos> cool
[19:31] <ThatGraemeGuy> old tnt would destroy roughly 1/3 of blocks
[19:32] <ThatGraemeGuy> new tnt only destroys dirt or cobble
[19:32] <Kilos> where do we get this privilege?
[19:32] <ThatGraemeGuy> so you don't accidentally blow up diamonds
[19:32] <Kilos> thats good they short supply
[19:33] <Kilos> but mithril pick works fine on most things
[19:33] <Kilos> just diamond and obsidian it cant cut i think
[19:34] <Kilos> bit safer near lava too
[19:34] <ThatGraemeGuy> superfly: you said we can ditch monorail?
[19:35] <superfly> ThatGraemeGuy: yeah, I gave up on those rail ideas, their implementations do not work very well
[19:35] <ThatGraemeGuy> cool
[19:39] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[19:39]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[19:43] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[19:43] <Kilos> Maaz, thanks
[19:43] <Maaz> Kilos: Sure
[19:43] <ThatGraemeGuy> almost donw upgrading
[19:43] <ThatGraemeGuy> done too
[19:43] <Kilos> cool
[19:46] <Kilos> my nose is froze and my toes is froze
[19:48] <ThatGraemeGuy> superfly, Kilos: back online
[19:48] <superfly> ta
[19:49] <Kilos> ty
[19:50] <Kilos> its telling me to upgrade my client
[19:51] <ThatGraemeGuy> i'm pretty sure i told you the same a few minutes ago :)
[19:51] <Kilos> i reinstalled in synaptic. that normally upgrades
[19:52] <Kilos> i dont know the command to upgrade
[19:52] <ThatGraemeGuy> what version is your client?
[19:52] <Kilos> 0.4.9
[19:53] <ThatGraemeGuy> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:minetestdevs/stable
[19:53] <ThatGraemeGuy> sudo apt-get purge minetest*
[19:53] <ThatGraemeGuy> sudo apt-get update
[19:54] <ThatGraemeGuy> sudo apt-get install minetestc55
[19:54] <Kilos> ty ThatGraemeGuy
[20:02] <Kilos> wow even a microwave
[20:03] <Kilos> and 8 pages of craftable goodies
[20:13] <ThatGraemeGuy> night all
[20:13] <Kilos> night ThatGraemeGuy ty
[20:16] <spinza> anyone know of good deals on basic laptop for inet/email/word?  or is this too off topic?
[20:17] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[20:17] <Kilos> spinza, hold on
[20:17] <spinza> budget of maybe R5k
[20:18] <Kilos> i3 only at that price i think


[07:30] <pdtpatrick_> Question -- why is it when u use static IP. /etc/resolv.conf keeps going blank after reboot? Is network manager still controlling that file?
[07:31] <broder> !support | pdtpatrick_
[07:39] <pdtpatrick_> because i've asked that question many times in the other rooms and no one seems to know .. thought i'd ask the developers instead
[08:08] <cjwatson> pdtpatrick_: you can try http://askubuntu.com/ if IRC support channels don't know the answer; we would still prefer that this channel not become overspill from #ubuntu, because it will get very hard for us to use it for development in that case
[08:09] <cjwatson> (I know it's quiet over the weekend)
[13:07] <melodie_> hi, I have met with an issue that is reported at launchpad, related to the gmixer program. As the program and package have been developed at Ubuntu, I thought I would ask about the development of this package. It has not been continued since 2009, and has a bug reported by many persons of different distros. What could be done about it ?
[13:08] <melodie_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/gmixer/+bug/416292
[13:08] <melodie_> here is the link
[13:09] <melodie_> if someone has answers to this... the dev seems not to answer, I had wrote to him a few weeks ago to offer to improve the translation to French : since then, no answer. :/
[13:11] <melodie_> hi EagleScreen
[13:12] <melodie_> I am looking for an information : is there a place where someone in charge of following the development of some given packages can be found ?
[13:13] <EagleScreen> melodie_: I think there are several places
[13:15] <melodie_> EagleScreen, if I repeat the full info about the issue I meet with will it help you to advise me better ?
[13:16] <EagleScreen> melodie_: may be..
[13:17] <melodie_>  I have met with an issue that is reported at launchpad, related to the gmixer program.
[13:17] <melodie_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/gmixer/+bug/416292
[13:17] <melodie_> I didn't post there because I can't reproduce it since the beginning unless I install it to a new Linux install.
[13:18] <melodie_> but I noticed some time ago that the program has not had updates since 2009
[13:19] <melodie_> so I was wondering if there is a place where I could point to it. We don't have many valuable gtk2 mixers at linux distros actually. gnome-alsamixer is not updated anymore, and gmixer same does not seem active. other mixers are not so good looking, or may be heavy or attached to a desktop environment
[13:19] <penguin42> melodie_: Well these days people are expected to do everything via pulse
[13:20] <melodie_> hi penguin42 how is that ?
[13:21] <melodie_> what if you want a leightweight system without pulse ?
[13:22] <penguin42> melodie_: Yes I understand; Is that true of one of xubuntu or lubuntu?
[13:24] <melodie_> I don't understand "is that true of one... " ?
[13:25] <melodie_> lubuntu is light, crunchbang used to be build on ubuntu, with the Openbox wm as unique environment. I also use a distro with Openbox standalone... and a few tweaks in to make it easy to use daily.
[13:25] <penguin42> I meant do any of lubuntu or xubuntu ship without pa ?
[13:25] <melodie_> such as this one :p → http://mimasgpc.free.fr/openbox-menu_en.html
[13:25] <melodie_> penguin42, I have no idea, haven't used them
[13:26] <melodie_> pa : is pulse ?
[13:26] <penguin42> yeh
[13:26] <melodie_> pulse audio ?
[13:26] <melodie_> ok
[13:26] <melodie_> :)
[13:29] <melodie_> penguin42, so what about gmixer ?
[13:29] <penguin42> melodie_: I don't know; it doesn't look like it's ever been in an Ubuntu package
[13:29] <melodie_> is it going to be abandonned as pulse audio is supposed to be used as a mixer ? (is that possible ?)
[13:30] <melodie_> oh yes it is
[13:30] <melodie_> wait a sec
[13:30] <melodie_> https://launchpad.net/gmixer
[13:31] <melodie_> isn't launchpad a Ubuntu place ? Or I understood nothing about it ?
[13:31] <penguin42> melodie_: Not all the projects on launchpad are ubuntu packages
[13:31] <melodie_> ok
[13:32] <melodie_> therefore theses gtk2 mixers are poor orphans
[13:32] <melodie_> thanks for the infos...
[13:32] <penguin42> melodie_: To me it looks like a project someone created and then didn't do much with
[13:33] <EagleScreen> melodie_: it is better to try to contact with upstream author if you are interested in gmixer
[13:34] <melodie_> EagleScreen, sure... that's what I did first : I wrote to the author several weeks ago and I never got an answer
[13:35] <melodie_> I think alsamixer-gnome and gmixer should find devs to adopt them. they are good programs
[13:36] <melodie_> and none approaches them for the quality.
[13:36] <EagleScreen> melodie_: the software applications born and die, like the humans, they are not alive forever...
[13:36] <penguin42> melodie_: So what are you doing in your spare time?
[13:36] <melodie_> in their range of action of course
[13:36] <EagleScreen> if you were good in gtk programming, you could adopt them
[13:37] <melodie_> I do this and this and this : http://melodie.tyruiop.eu/ http://citrotux.org/ and this : Bonsai : http://tyruiop.eu/~melodie/Downloads/ISOS/PCLinuxOS_cli_iso_and_children
[13:37] <penguin42> melodie_: You might want to look at xfce4-mixer or gamix
[13:38] <melodie_> I looked at gamix, was not convinced. xfce4-mixer brings in Xfce apps : I need agnostic apps
[13:38] <melodie_> as much as possible
[13:39]  * penguin42 segfaults gamix
[13:39] <melodie_> http://meets.free.fr/images/pclinuxos-bonsai-2011.png
[13:40] <melodie_> this is the last test version uploaded. I have redone it completely last night, and will now install it to a machine for more tests
[13:40] <melodie_> the looks is that one.
[13:40] <melodie_> I don't program : I take pieces and put them together in a way that other people have not thought about before.
[13:41] <melodie_> with the help of a few persons
[13:41] <EagleScreen> melodie_: you may take a look to veromix
[13:41] <melodie_> EagleScreen, I look, thanks
[13:42] <melodie_> it's a plasma widget ? :o
[13:42] <EagleScreen> not sure
[13:42] <melodie_> that's what I find while googling
[13:43] <melodie_> it's a kde app
[13:43] <melodie_> :|
[13:44] <EagleScreen> a kde app would be bad, but it is a plasma-widget, so only runs in kde4
[13:44] <melodie_> EagleScreen, ok. so it's not the subject
[13:45] <EagleScreen> yes, i see
[13:45] <melodie_> I'll try to find people looking for apps to continue
[13:45] <melodie_> :)
[13:45] <melodie_> and developing in python mostly
[13:45] <EagleScreen> but dont forget you have alsamixer in console mode
[13:45] <melodie_> what desktop do you use ? gnome ?
[13:46] <melodie_> EagleScreen, I don't forget. that's what I configured for volumeicon on the "bonsai" version
[13:46] <EagleScreen> I use mostly KDE, but also others
[13:46] <melodie_> :)
[14:49] <jykae> Dev week in Finland: http://jykae.blogspot.com/2011/07/ubuntu-developer-week.html
[14:51]  * penguin42 guesses they'll got a lot of stuff finished off
[15:04] <penguin42> jykae: It's hard organising things like that
[15:18] <jykae> penguin42: yep, learned a lot for next time
[15:21] <jykae> Those Qt meetings will be a good place to present news from Ubuntu for Qt developers
[15:22] <jykae> quite many of those Qt devs didn't know that Natty is QML
[15:27] <penguin42> QML?
[15:40] <jykae> penguin42: start here http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7/qdeclarativeintroduction.html
[15:41] <penguin42> ah - yet another GUI programming language
[15:45] <jykae> penguin42: different approach, descriptive language for UI, programming can be done with the language of your choice, eg. C++ or Python
[15:46] <penguin42> jykae: Nod, I'm fairly sure there are others with similar ideas that I've come across before
[15:46] <penguin42> jykae: I mean it's not that different from teh files generated by glade
[15:48] <bdrung> hi, someone here with a maverick i386 system who can testbuild a package?
[16:36] <melodie_> bye, thanks for all !
[17:45] <h3Ld3r> hi all
[17:46] <h3Ld3r> need a bit of help on customizing an ubutnu CD from shell
[17:49] <h3Ld3r> any one here to help me. plzzzzzzzz
[19:39] <micahg> I have lm-sensors which is replacing lm-sensors-3, should I -v to the last lm-sensors upload or the last lm-sensors-3 upload?
[20:58] <slangasek> ok, who changed what that caused *all* of my initramfses to be overwritten on upgrade?
[20:58] <slangasek> they are now all broken
[20:59] <slangasek> hmm, from a bootchart update
[21:00] <slangasek> well, this will make it fun to figure out what regressed to break plymouth text display in the initramfs :(
[21:59] <dupondje> [11150.306893] type=1400 audit(1310939778.399:16): apparmor="DENIED" operation="mkdir" parent=930 profile="/usr/sbin/cupsd" name="/run/samba/" pid=4148 comm="smb" requested_mask="c" denied_mask="c" fsuid=7 ouid=7
[21:59] <dupondje> mmm
[22:03] <dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cups/+bug/812035


[05:09] <IlyaHaykinson> *sigh*
[05:10] <IlyaHaykinson> ok, so i have a lot of technical writers who want to help
[05:10] <IlyaHaykinson> how should i arrange them?
[05:14] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: Are they wanting to write or edit or what?
[05:15] <godbyk> Did we get authors to fill in the chapters that had gone dormant?
[12:52]  * thorwil pokes vish
[12:52]  * vish ouch , wth! was just tweaking the manual title ;)
[12:53] <thorwil> :)
[12:54] <thorwil> vish: i guess i will try to put some example text into my svg layout template to see if it works out
[12:54] <thorwil> vish: any thoughts on using icons and maybe patterns?
[12:55] <vish> thorwil: icons , IMO , is not really ideal , i think the way David did with the cursor was good , adding too many icons just seems weird to me
[12:57] <thorwil> vish: it would have to be balanced carefully. the cursor is good for making it somewhat clear that it's about computers, but doesn't go beyond that
[12:58] <vish> thorwil: we can incorporate the cursor and add a few waves/ripples at the getting started
[12:58] <vish> *"Getting started..."
[12:59] <vish> thorwil: or just use the cursor as he has done , and add a few abstract patterns on the page...
[13:01] <vish> thorwil: IMO , we dont really need to add icons , more than the icons the cursor is sufficient that the book is about a computer.. ,  OR maybe i havent clearly understood your idea
[13:02] <thorwil> vish: no, seems your missing a part. it's about the WHY. why read the document? because of things you can accomplish with Ubuntu. so what are those things?
[13:04] <thorwil> it would of course also be legitimate to use words. just a list
[13:07] <vish> thorwil: we could rather use words on the title page than icons...   several words and a few words sticking out and being more prominent
[13:09] <vish> thorwil: then again , we have a title named "Getting started with Ubuntu" which is clear enough what the book is about ;)
[13:09] <thorwil> yes, What, not Why ;)
[13:10] <vish> why... ? "To get started " ;p
[13:10] <thorwil> not to forget that we can't expect readers to have a good idea of what ubuntu is
[13:10] <thorwil> vish: why as in motivation
[13:10] <vish> thorwil: how is using the categories icons gonna make it any clearer of what Ubuntu is?
[13:11] <thorwil> vish: ubuntu is just a means to an end
[13:11] <thorwil> vish: i expect that the real goal of a reader is not to get started with ubuntu
[13:12] <vish> thorwil: then what would be the real goal?
[13:12] <thorwil> vish: but to do one of the mentioned things
[13:12] <vish> hmm..
[13:13] <vish> thorwil: i didnt really like David's idea with the icons , it looked rather cheesy to me than classy... :(  but maybe you can do it better :)
[13:13] <thorwil> of course, there's the aspect of why-not-windows, but the reasons are way to complex to touch them on the title page
[13:14] <vish> thorwil: to me it seemed like those children's books ;)
[13:14] <thorwil> vish: that comes down to style
[13:15] <vish> thorwil: is it ok for the team to not use the lynx in the title page?
[13:16] <thorwil> vish: nobody complained yet, which makes me suspect nobody really got (to) that part of my spec, yet
[13:17] <vish> hehe ;p
[13:17] <vish> thorwil: what are the dimensions to be used?
[13:18] <vish> of the page*
[13:18] <thorwil> vish: a4 or letter
[13:18] <thorwil> a4: 210 x 297 mm
[13:19] <thorwil> letter: 8½ × 11 inch or 216 × 279 mm
[13:20] <thorwil> vish: title page should pick up the margins used inside
[13:22] <vish> k.
[13:39] <vish> argh! the words run over the lynx :/
[13:39] <vish> i guess we have to go with one word per line
[13:40] <thorwil> will .... read .... like ... cpt. .... kirk .... speaks
[14:47] <vish> godbyk: release version number is ?
[14:47] <vish> or shall i just mention it as alpha release ?
[14:47] <vish> thorwil: ^?
[14:48] <thorwil> vish: "Version 0.d, Month dddd" (with the comma or spacing) may appear on pre-releases
[14:48] <thorwil> alpha: February 10th, 2010 - Version 0.3
[14:49] <vish> thorwil: so i'll just change it as feb instead of jan ,is date really needed?
[14:49] <thorwil> so: "Version 0.3, February 2010" or "Version 0.3    February 2010"
[14:50] <vish> with the comma looks better..
[14:50] <thorwil> vish: just the year
[14:51] <thorwil> vish: this detail may very well look slapped-on, as it's a decidedly temporary thing
[14:51] <vish> yeah
[15:01] <ivaldo> Enter text here...ciao
[15:02] <ivaldo> sto cercando delle informazioni su come far funzionare la rete wireless con ubuntu 9.04
[15:04] <ivaldo> c'e' nessuno
[15:05] <ivaldo> c'e' nessuno?
[15:05] <thorwil> ivaldo: english, please
[15:06] <ivaldo> I don't speak english
[15:06] <ivaldo> do you know well ubuntu 9.04?
[15:07] <thorwil> ivaldo: you are on the wrong channel here, sorry
[15:07] <thorwil> this is not a help channel
[15:10] <ivaldo> ok
[15:10] <ivaldo> thanks
[15:11] <ivaldo> do you know an help channel
[15:11] <ivaldo> ?
[15:11] <thorwil> ivaldo: try #ubuntu-it, maybe #ubuntu-it-forum
[15:12] <thorwil> at least italian ;)
[15:16] <ivaldo> thanks thorwil  in italia si dice a buon rendere
[15:39] <thorwil> awesome, text-align: justify is broken in inkscape
[15:40] <thorwil> how silly of me to think one might be able to do serious, albeit single-page layout with it :/
[18:09] <dutchie> thorwil: you can use the bot to direct such confused people to their own channel :)
[18:09] <dutchie> !it
[18:09] <manualbot> Vai su #ubuntu-it se vuoi parlare in italiano, in questo canale usiamo solo l'inglese. Grazie! (click col tasto destro sul nome del canale per entrare)
[18:23] <thorwil> dutchie: great, ty
[18:23] <dutchie> other country codes work too
[18:24] <thorwil> !de
[18:24] <manualbot> In den meisten ubuntu-Kanälen wird nur Englisch gesprochen. Für deutschsprachige Hilfe besuchen Sie bitte #ubuntu-de, #kubuntu-de, #edubuntu-de oder #ubuntu-at. Geben Sie einfach /join #ubuntu-de ein! Danke für Ihr Verständnis.
[18:25] <vish> !uk
[18:25] <manualbot> Join us for a discussion using the Queen's English in #ubuntu-uk
[18:26] <thorwil> !us
[18:26] <manualbot> Factoid 'us' not found
[18:26] <vish> !jp
[18:26] <manualbot> 日本語の場合は #ubuntu-jp または #kubuntu-jp を参照して下さい
[18:26] <thorwil> !au
[18:26] <manualbot> The Australian Local Community Team has channels here on Freenode. They are #ubuntu-au for technical discussion, and #ubuntu-au-chat for social chatter.
[18:26] <vish> !nz
[18:26] <manualbot> nz is the New Zealand LoCo Team has a channel at #ubuntu-nz
[18:26] <thorwil> bah, uk is most fun
[18:27] <dutchie> \o/ uk is always most fun
[18:27] <dutchie> n
[18:27] <dutchie> !love-#ubuntu-offtopic
[18:27] <manualbot> Love is like racing across the frozen tundra on a snowmobile which flips over, trapping you underneath. At night, the ice-weasels come.
[18:29] <thorwil> luckily ice-weasels are just firefoxes without trademarked artwork
[20:35] <wolter> hey thorwil
[20:35] <wolter> has anybody done any artwork lately?
[20:35] <thorwil> hi wolter
[20:35] <wolter> which is not in the wiki?
[20:36] <thorwil> wolter: i think vish worked on the alpha title page
[20:36] <thorwil> wolter: i wrote the design spec i hope you read
[20:36] <wolter> yes
[20:36] <wolter> i've come with a new version myself
[20:36] <wolter> i didn't know about vish's wip
[20:38] <thorwil> wolter: i asked vish to do the necessary to answer Ben's request while you weren't around. sorry about the lack of communication
[20:38] <wolter> do not worry
[20:38] <wolter> can i take a look at it?
[20:39] <wolter> this is my new titlepage http://imagebin.ca/view/j4_DZU9B.html
[20:40] <thorwil> wolter: honestly not intending to mock you, but a very quick association: welcome to the twilight zone
[20:41] <wolter> whats that?
[20:41] <dutchie> thorwil: haha, love the text though
[20:41] <wolter> oh
[20:41] <wolter> old tv show, says google
[20:41] <thorwil> right, that one
[20:42] <wolter> did they have a similar presentation theme/
[20:42] <wolter> ?
[20:42] <thorwil> wolter: though you did a pretty nice job with light and shadow, just limited by trying to keep it bright
[20:43] <wolter> can you rephrase?
[20:43] <thorwil> wolter: the series has a long history, don't even know it much. it's just this door to another dimension idea (spooky kind)
[20:43] <wolter> oh
[20:44] <wolter> well, i was trying to illustrate a context of new world too
[20:44] <wolter> full of light
[20:45] <wolter> say, if i wanted to make a cover for a windows manual, i would put this instead
[20:45] <wolter> http://th01.deviantart.net/fs32/300W/i/2008/218/e/7/savannah_doorway_by_myrainclouds.jpg
[20:45] <thorwil> wolter: yes, but to do so, you need a contrast, ending up implying a rather dark/unpleasant here. at least in my eyes
[20:46] <wolter> thats a good idea
[20:46] <wolter> now i understand what you said about the keep it bright thing
[20:48] <vish> wolter: thorwil: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/Cover-Version2lynx-lower.png
[20:48] <wolter> oh
[20:48] <wolter> ok
[20:50] <thorwil> vish: you could try to use the extra space between "b" and "t" by placing the "with" there (not sure whether that would work)
[20:50] <thorwil> vish: but generally this does the job done, so we should move on
[20:50] <vish> yeah
[20:51] <thorwil> gets, even, arg
[20:52] <vish> thorwil: so I upload one for a4 and one for letter ?
[20:52] <thorwil> godbyk: ^
[20:52] <godbyk> Title pages?  Yeah, we'll need an A4 version and a letter version.
[20:53] <thorwil> vish: current default seems to be letter
[20:53] <vish> k.
[20:53] <godbyk> I'll catch up on the rest of the conversation in just a moment. (Have to finish typing this email response.)
[20:53] <vish> i'll tag them appropriately , so the team can use it correctly
[20:54] <godbyk> Okay, email sent. Now let me catch up on the last 10 hours of conversation real quick. :)
[20:57] <godbyk> Who's David and what's the cursor thing?
[20:57] <thorwil> godbyk: David made the colorful title page proposals
[20:58] <thorwil> cursor thing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Artwork/Initial_Proposals?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ubuntumanual_theclick_inside1_byKolorGuild.png
[21:02] <vish> godbyk: how was /Team images/screenshots/title.png , generated? it has artifacts.. :(
[21:02] <godbyk> vish: Not sure, I didn't generate that.
[21:03] <vish> the lynx's nose is messed up and there is an odd smudge on the page
[21:03] <godbyk> I take the svg you guys provide, pipe it through inkscape and output a PDF.
[21:03] <vish> godbyk: we need to watch out for that
[21:03] <godbyk> (Though inkscape likes to eat a few bits along the way, apparently.)
[21:03] <godbyk> Yeah, that's something that inkscape does.
[21:03] <godbyk> I'm not sure how to fix it at the moment.
[21:03] <vish> godbyk: hmm , odd. it inkscape here doesnt do that
[21:04] <godbyk> Really?
[21:04] <thorwil> are there radial gradients, blur, clipped elements in the SVG?
[21:04] <godbyk> run make clean, and then run "make coverpage.pdf"
[21:04] <godbyk> then look at the PDF and see if it appears mucked up.
[21:04] <vish> godbyk: i dont get an error like that, the above png was using inkscape
[21:04] <godbyk> PNGs are fine, PDFs not so much.
[21:05] <vish> > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/Cover-Version2lynx-lower.png
[21:05] <vish> godbyk: yeah , but that png itself is corrupted
[21:05] <godbyk> What PNG?  I don't make any PNGs (I don't think).
[21:05] <vish>  /Team images/screenshots/title.png
[21:06] <vish> godbyk: i didnt mean _you_ ;)
[21:06] <vish> godbyk: just saying we , need to watch out for those errors :)
[21:06] <godbyk> godbyk: Gotcha.
[21:12] <godbyk> I'm going to be working on the interior book design soon (to take a break from the translation side of things).
[21:12] <godbyk> Any specific comments are needs that haven't been addressed yet?
[21:12] <thorwil> godbyk: i created an a4 layout template in inkscape
[21:13] <godbyk> thorwil: Cool.  Is it in the repository? Or can you link me to it?
[21:13] <godbyk> Fixing the margins is one of the top items on my list (for both letter and A4).
[21:13] <thorwil> then found out that inkscape has a "justify" button, but doesn't actually justify text. aside of other issues with working with text
[21:13] <godbyk> I'm still trying to get fonts for all the languages we're supporting too.
[21:14] <godbyk> thorwil: Yeah, I've found inkscape to be lacking when it comes to working with text.
[21:14] <thorwil> so now i'm working with scribus to create that layout again, to be able to include example text
[21:15] <thorwil> godbyk: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Et-w-/%2Bjunk/ubuntu_manual_cover/download/head%3A/layout_a4.svg-20100128134918-yenbpm0zvsr3vg5l-1/layout_a4.svg
[21:16] <thorwil> godbyk: there are 2 layouts in there, one solely based on golden ratio divisions of the page
[21:16] <thorwil> godbyk: the other ... well, unhide the "zick zack" layer
[21:16] <godbyk> okay.  (waiting for inkscape to load)
[21:17] <thorwil> wolter, vish: you might want to have a look at that, too
[21:18] <thorwil> my concerns were to stay above 7 mm page margins, have all distances either equal or clearly distinct, all distances in harmony, every rectangle one might see on the page with good proportions
[21:20] <vish> thorwil: thats the same earlier one you showed right?
[21:20] <thorwil> godbyk: btw, paragraph first line indent shouldn't be combined with space before paragraph (or margin-top for css people)
[21:20] <thorwil> vish: no, revised margins
[21:20]  * vish looks
[21:21] <godbyk> thorwil: I agree.  Those were inherited settings.
[21:21] <godbyk> That's why I'm going to clear away everything and start fresh.
[21:21] <godbyk> So there's one coherent design.
[21:21] <thorwil> vish: more inner margin in case it will be perforated
[21:21] <godbyk> (As opposed to trying to incorporate some former elements and not others and trying to figure out which is which.)
[21:22] <thorwil> godbyk: excellent. by chance ever read tschichold? :)
[21:22] <godbyk> thorwil: Yep.
[21:22]  * thorwil hugs godbyk
[21:22] <godbyk> Clearly, inkscape hates me today and wants to eat my processor and not actually show a window.
[21:23] <godbyk> thorwil: Heh.. I've got a whole shelf of books on typography and whatnot.
[21:28] <godbyk> finally, inkscape popped up.
[21:28] <godbyk> now I can take a look at the page layout.
[21:28] <godbyk> thrWhat are the dark areas at the top?
[21:29] <thorwil> godbyk: area for page number and running header (or whats it called)
[21:30] <thorwil> so it's height only defines where the main text starts
[21:30] <wolter> ok ill have a look thorwil
[21:32] <godbyk> Hey, thorwil, if I can quiz you on some of the dimensions real quick, I can plug it into the manual and we can see what it looks like.
[21:33] <thorwil> godbyk: ok
[21:34] <thorwil> godbyk: outer margins (around bound main and margin-notes): outer: 11.703 mm
[21:34] <thorwil> inner: 30.639
[21:34] <thorwil> top 16.552
[21:35] <thorwil> bottom: 26.781
[21:35] <thorwil> header height: 26.781
[21:35] <thorwil> margin-note width: 33.399
[21:36] <thorwil> (gap between margin and main: 4.47)
[21:37] <godbyk> Okay. Let me generate the PDF and see if I got them all plugged in right.
[21:37] <vish> godbyk: i rendered the svg as png and pushed to branch
[21:37]  * vish didnt notice any artifacts , but if other double checked it would be nice :)
[21:37] <vish> others*
[21:38] <thorwil> godbyk: that's the "phi" layout, btw
[21:41] <wolter> ill do
[21:42] <thorwil> godbyk: what do you suggest as body text size?
[21:42] <godbyk> thorwil: What's the distance from the top of the page to the top of the main text block (ignoring the running head)?
[21:42] <godbyk> thorwil: It depends on the fonts we go with.
[21:42] <godbyk> Generally, 10 pt is a good starting place.
[21:43] <thorwil> godbyk: 43.333
[21:45] <wolter> oh vish, why would there be artifacts in the png?
[21:45] <wolter> i tell you one thing, the coverpage is using the svg and it is not rendering well
[21:45] <wolter> there is some code overlaying 'ubuntu
[21:45] <wolter> ' on the top
[21:46] <wolter> and the lynx has a severe layers problem
[21:46] <wolter> anyway, i'm off..
[21:46] <vish> wolter: this one currently in the branch has artifacts :(   /Team images/screenshots/title.png  , it messed up the lynx' nose
[21:47] <godbyk> thorwil: Does this match your layout? http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/main-a4-thorwil.pdf
[21:47] <godbyk> It looks like the main text block is sitting too low on the page.  The running head really only consists of one line of text, so it doesn't need to be as tall as you have it in your layout.
[21:49] <thorwil> godbyk: too much space above the running head
[21:51] <vish> hmm , godbyk why do the links break alignment?
[21:51] <vish> ex: page 8
[21:52] <godbyk> vish: Under the contact details section?
[21:52] <vish> yeah
[21:52] <godbyk> The links don't break the alignment.
[21:52] <vish> its better to have them each in a single line there
[21:53] <godbyk> What happens is that if TeX can't hyphenate a word, then it occassionally is allowed to run outside the margins.
[21:53] <thorwil> enough for today, cya!
[21:53] <godbyk> Yeah, that whole paragraph needs to be rewritten anyway.
[21:57] <vish> godbyk: looks pretty impressive for an alpha :)
[21:59] <godbyk> vish: Things will get a lot more interesting when we start with translations.
[21:59] <godbyk> The languages using the Latin alphabet (or extended-Latin) are fairly easy to deal with.
[21:59] <vish> godbyk: how will they handle title page translation?
[21:59] <godbyk> Languages using others scripts are more difficult.  I have to find typefaces that support those languages. Make sure the layout accommodates them, etc.
[22:00] <godbyk> We may have to manually translate the title page and just have one title page per language in the repository.
[22:00] <godbyk> Then our code will just select the appropriate title page to include based on the language (and paper size).
[22:01] <vish> godbyk: can be superimpose the translation on the title page? use a translatable string there?
[22:01] <godbyk> Possibly, but we'll probably want to handle it manually so we can deal with alignment problems and other tweaks.
[22:02] <godbyk> There's no telling how the size of the English title will be in comparison to the size of the title in other languages.
[22:02] <vish> as a rule of thumb if we stick to center align , it might work
[22:03] <godbyk> Possibly.
[22:03] <godbyk> Remember that some languages read right-to-left or vertically.
[22:03] <vish> yeah :s
[22:04] <godbyk> Sadly, I only speak English.  So I'm relying on the translation teams to help me out with a lot of that stuff.
[22:05] <godbyk> For instance, I'm having a heck of a time finding a typeface that does a good job with the Telugu script.
[22:05] <godbyk> The ones I've tried so far aren't placing the vowels nicely.
[22:07] <vish> huh.. there is someone translating it to telugu o.0  interesting
[22:08] <godbyk> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
[22:08] <godbyk> It's getting translated to lots of languages.
[22:08] <godbyk> (click View All Languages in the bottom right of that page)
[22:11] <vish> pretty neat..
[22:11] <godbyk> I think it's pretty awesome.
[22:11] <godbyk> I'm trying really hard to make sure the manual looks as good in Telugu, for instance, as it does in English.
[22:12] <godbyk> And that's pretty hard since I know virtually nothing about Telugu. :-)
[22:12]  * dutchie pokes launchpad's imports
[22:12] <godbyk> Uh oh.. don't piss off the translators again, dutchie! :-)
[22:13] <dutchie> this is to help me avoid pissing off the translators
[22:13] <godbyk> Did we ever figure out how to make it so it didn't reset everything each time we uploaded our new text?
[22:13] <dutchie> I think I fixed it
[22:13] <godbyk> cool
[22:13] <vish> i think the merges were the problem
[22:14] <godbyk> dutchie: Is there a way we can add just a plain boring text file to the list of 'translations' that may contain things that need to be translated or simple questions for the translators to answer?
[22:15] <godbyk> Some of the languages aren't in the polyglossia package yet, and I've been emailing individual translators for help.  But if I could add the handful of strings I need translated to a file that gets sent to the teams, it'd be easier.
[22:15] <godbyk> (I also need to get some suggestions on typefaces for each language, page size, date format, etc.)
[22:16]  * dutchie will have a look
[22:17] <godbyk> Thanks.
[22:18] <godbyk> brb.. gonna fix a sandwich.
[22:18] <c7p> i want to ask sth about translations. When the text of the manual will be permanent (or at least a chapter)? so we can know when to start translating? When the writing team modifies a string and updates the database then the whole string translation is lost. The result is very annoying for translators. We had translated 500 + strings before the recent update and now the translated strings are 146. brb
[22:23] <dutchie> c7p: sometime after the beta
[22:26] <godbyk> back
[22:27] <c7p> back
[22:27] <c7p> dutchie: thank you
[22:44] <c7p> cya