[12:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #74315 in launchpad "wget https://launchpad.net fails with certificate error" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74315
[01:00] <Ubugtu> New bug: #74318 in malone ""Include attachment" checkbox should not exist" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74318
[01:27] <mpt> SteveA, still around?
[02:01] <_thumper_> mpt: ping
[02:42] <mpt> _thumper_, pong
[02:43] <_thumper_> mpt: didn't you say something at some stage about coming down south in december?
[02:45] <mpt> _thumper_, yes, I'll be in Dunedin from this Friday to next Wednesday
[02:45] <ajmitch> coming to enjoy summer in the south
[02:45] <_thumper_> mpt: is it leave or working?  I'd like to meet up some time
[02:46] <_thumper_> icebergs and all :)
[02:51] <mpt> _thumper_, leave
[02:51] <mpt> So yes, lunch sometime would be great
[02:51] <mpt> And what's this about icebergs?
[02:52] <_thumper_> there are icebergs floating off the Dunedin coast
[02:52] <_thumper_> how could you not have heard that?
[02:53] <_thumper_> mpt: it was a reference to ajmitch and summer, I should really learn to prefix ids :)
[02:56] <mpt> ajmitch? summer? icebergs?
[03:00] <_thumper_> mpt: [14:45]  <ajmitch> coming to enjoy summer in the south
[03:00] <mpt> Icebergs off Dunedin? Coooool
[03:01] <mpt> Are they the ones people are getting married on?
[03:01] <_thumper_> mpt: yeah, they are running sightseeing flights daily, and yes to attempted marriage
[03:01] <mpt> "attempted marriage", sounds like "attempted burglary"
[03:02] <_thumper_> supposidly there are another 6 on their way up from antartica
[03:02] <_thumper_> biggest measuring almost 1km
[03:02] <mpt> Antarctica's melting and flooding us all, huh
[03:05] <jamesh> _thumper_: I finished off your spec-branches branch and merged it while you were moving.
[03:05] <jamesh> it's up on staging now
[03:05] <_thumper_> jamesh: thanks, ddaa mentioned that to me
[03:06] <_thumper_> jamesh: how do I see staging?
[03:06] <jamesh> _thumper_: https://staging.launchpad.net/
[03:06] <_thumper_> jamesh: ta
[03:07] <jamesh> _thumper_: if you do "bzr diff -r 4278..4279" for rocketfuel, you'll see the completed changes.
[03:08] <_thumper_> thanks
[04:16] <wasabi> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu
[04:16] <wasabi> timeout.
[04:22] <jamesh> wasabi: got an OOPS number?
[04:24] <wasabi> Buh. No. Sorry. I'm an idiot and hit refresh.
[04:24] <wasabi> And it started working. ;)
[07:53] <l0fty> hello, I have a launchpad feature request and I'm not sure how to submit it.
[07:54] <l0fty> All it is, is it would be helpful if you could search by package name in the bug tracker.
[07:55] <poolie> that should already be possible...
[07:56] <poolie> to file a bug
[07:56] <jamesh> l0fty: if you go to the package's page and click "Bugs", you'll get a bug listing narrowed to that distro/package
[07:56] <_thumper_> hey poolie,
[07:57] <poolie> hi thumper
[07:57] <l0fty> jamesh: OK, thanks
[07:57] <_thumper_> poolie, are you at osdc for all four days too?
[07:57] <poolie> i just realized i should plan to talk to you earlier in the day now
[07:57] <jamesh> l0fty: e.g. https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/python2.5/+bugs
[07:57] <_thumper_> :)
[07:57] <_thumper_> poolie: no worries, spent the day catching up on work emails and reading meeting notes
[07:57] <jamesh> l0fty: you can enter a search term there and it will only search for bugs on that package.
[07:58] <poolie> _thumper_: only wed-fri, but travelling tomorrow
[07:58] <_thumper_> poolie: ok, should be fun
[07:59] <poolie> l0fty: for future reference you can file bugs at https://bugs.launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bugs
[07:59] <poolie> but asking here may be best
[08:00] <jamesh> l0fty: iirc there is a spec for adding boogle-style searching to Launchpad
[08:00] <jamesh> which might allow you to do searches like "package:tzdata foo"
[08:00] <jamesh> but that hasn't been implemented yet
[08:01] <l0fty> I just tried to find the page for 'listen' and it's either not a full ubuntu package (unlikely as I'm running it) or else the search engine isn't picking it up.
[08:02] <l0fty> I did a search for 'packages containing listen'
[08:03] <l0fty> Just saying there should be a simple, obvious way to go straight to the page for a given package, and there isn't one AFAICS
[08:05] <jamesh> l0fty: weird.  I wonder why it didn't find that package.
[08:05] <jamesh> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/listen <- it is definitely in LP
[08:05] <l0fty> maybe the package doesn't have 'listen' in the description?
[08:06] <jamesh> maybe
[08:06] <jamesh> but I'd expect the search to match package names ...
[08:08] <l0fty> don't know. Thanks for your help - I found the page anyway.
[08:16] <BjornT_> jamesh, l0fty: the script that updates the cache that the search uses is broken, so that's probably why the package wasn't found.
[09:08] <ddaa> good morning
[09:09] <_thumper_> morning ddaa
[09:13] <ddaa> Hello _thumper_
[09:13] <ddaa> welcome aboard
[09:13] <ddaa> life vests are under your seat
[09:13] <ddaa> in case of sudden cabin depressurization, hold on to your coffee mug
[09:14] <_thumper_> fun and games for all to enjoy
[10:51] <lifeless> review meeting in 9 minutes
[11:00] <Ubugtu> New bug: #74361 in rosetta "Use appropriate marking for KDE plural forms" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74361
[11:01] <lifeless> meeting time
[11:01] <lifeless> who is here ?
[11:01] <jamesh> I am
[11:01] <BjornT_> me
[11:02] <lifeless>  * Roll call
[11:03] <lifeless>  * Queue status.
[11:03] <lifeless>  * reviewers to discuss ideas and principles for keeping branch review quick (was on LP meeting agenda)
[11:03] <lifeless>  * lifeless on leave
[11:04] <lifeless> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/ is the queue
[11:04] <lifeless> as usual :)
[11:05] <lifeless> its better than it was, but the oldest branches aren't moving
[11:05] <lifeless> BjornT_: david/cscvs/svn-peg-revision ?
[11:05] <lifeless> jamesh: flacoste/launchpad/tt-localized-requests-notifications?
[11:05] <jamesh> I think the three pyrex ones are the same as what spiv just reviewed
[11:05] <jamesh> lifeless: sent a review off a little while ago
[11:06] <lifeless> yah, I'm ignoring those
[11:06] <lifeless> and the one of kikos, that hes explained about on list
[11:06] <jamesh> looks like it is coming under control
[11:06] <BjornT_> lifeless: right, i should sort that one out. it probably shouldn't be in needs-review. i'll talk to ddaa about it after the meeting.
[11:07] <lifeless> BjornT_: thanks
[11:07] <lifeless> Keeping Branch review quick.
[11:09] <jamesh> related to that, BjornT mentioned getting pending-reviews to do incremental diffs
[11:10] <lifeless> yes
[11:10] <lifeless> this is a feature I have requested from launchpads review system
[11:11] <jamesh> does the algorithm I posted on that bug sound correct to you?
[11:11] <lifeless> I think doing it by hand is reasonable for now
[11:11] <lifeless> BjornT: Have you encountered interdiff ?
[11:11] <lifeless> jamesh: Haven't seen it. Bug # ?
[11:11] <jamesh> https://bugs.launchpad.net/products/launchpad-development-infrastructure/+bug/74011
[11:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 74011 in launchpad-development-infrastructure "Allow saying against which branch a diff should be produced from" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[11:11] <lifeless> jamesh: ahr, different things
[11:11] <BjornT> lifeless: what's interdiff?
[11:11] <lifeless> BjornT: its a tool for seeing the diff between two diffs
[11:12] <lifeless> BjornT: so you can see what has changed from one 'pending merge' diff to another
[11:12] <lifeless> this lets you see that when Fred says "Ive added docstrings", you can see what they are
[11:12] <jamesh> lifeless: the algorithm I mentioned isn't just picking a different rocketfuel branch
[11:13] <lifeless> jamesh: lets call diffing against specific branches, diffing against non-trunk, or something ?
[11:13] <BjornT> lifeless: ah. that could be useful. usually i get the branch and produce the diff using bzr instead.
[11:13] <jamesh> lifeless: I think we still want to get a diff in terms of the trunk, but between the results of two merges to the trunk
[11:14] <lifeless> jamesh: yes, your algorithm looks correct.
[11:14] <lifeless> jamesh: might be optimisable
[11:14] <jamesh> lifeless: I think you need to involve the trunk for the way people develop -- otherwise you pick up unrelated changes related to merges from rocketfuel
[11:15] <jamesh> which the reviewer doesn't care about
[11:15] <lifeless> jamesh: sure, but you could merge trunk -> B, commit, merge A-> that dir, diff, uncommit
[11:15] <lifeless> or variations
[11:16] <lifeless> so, this is something I've been meaning to discuss.
[11:16] <lifeless> I suggest that when you do a review, you save the diff that you reviewed, locally.
[11:16] <lifeless> then when you do a follow up review, you save the new diff, and use interdiff between them
[11:16] <lifeless> tell me how that works, whether its easy to work with or not -> this will be input into _thumper_s work on reviews-in-launchpad
[11:17] <jamesh> would it be helpful if the pending-reviews script included any more metadata at the top of the diff?
[11:17] <jamesh> (e.g. branch names plus revision numbers?)
[11:17] <lifeless> yeah
[11:17] <BjornT> yeah, that would help.
[11:17] <lifeless> branch: foo\nrevno: X\n
[11:18] <jamesh> you'll notice that the conflicts list is at the top of the diff these days
[11:18] <jamesh> rather than a separate file
[11:18] <lifeless> so what can we do to make it easier to work on smaller bits of code
[11:18] <lifeless> is it a knack thing, or is it tech ?
[11:19] <lifeless> I think its largely a knack, and some discipline
[11:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #74364 in malone "Shouldn't have URLs containing "malone"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74364
[11:20] <lifeless> ...
[11:20] <BjornT> yeah, it's mostly that people need to learn to break down their work into smaller pieces
[11:21] <jamesh> if we improve service for small patches, hopefully that'll encourage people to give us smaller patches ...
[11:22] <BjornT> before someone starts to work on a large feature, there should be some discussion about how to divide the implementation into smaller steps
[11:22] <lifeless> we have the idea of pre-implementation calls
[11:22] <lifeless> is that actually happening?
[11:23] <BjornT> i don't think there have been many calls lately
[11:23] <lifeless> I have a suggestion
[11:23] <lifeless> we have a work in progress status
[11:23] <lifeless> can we offer each branch a preimp call ?
[11:23] <lifeless> in a proactive, non-compulsory manner
[11:24] <lifeless> as in
[11:24] <lifeless> jamesh: I note you've started on jamesh/launchpad/url-utils
[11:24] <lifeless> have you had a chance to talk the implementation over with someone ?
[11:24] <jamesh> lifeless: it is based on conversations with SteveA -- I plan to put it up for review soon
[11:25] <jamesh> I am not sure how best to break it up into smaller chunks
[11:25] <lifeless> excellent, sounds like I dont have anything to offer here, I look forward to reviewing it!
[11:25] <lifeless> sorry, was roleplaying :)
[11:25] <lifeless> my point is for us to go out to the developers
[11:26] <lifeless> rather than waiting. If its primarily a skill thing - learning how to tell when something is getting bulky and needs to be staged
[11:26] <lifeless> then the folk with that skill are the best ones to judge when its needed
[11:26] <jamesh> yeah.  I'd like to get it through review so that the code can be used in other interesting areas
[11:27] <jamesh> (I wouldn't want to do that in the existing branch)
[11:27] <lifeless> what do you think of this idea ?
[11:27] <BjornT> lifeless: what exactly are you proposing?
[11:28] <lifeless> BjornT: Ah the details.
[11:28] <jamesh> (I wonder how many of the WIP branches have been forgotten)
[11:28] <lifeless> uhm, I guess...
[11:28] <lifeless> any wip branch over 1000 should get a phone-call/irc discussion offer from a reviewer
[11:29] <lifeless> and then be marked as having had that offer made
[11:29] <jamesh> that sounds like a good idea
[11:29] <BjornT> yeah, that'd be good.
[11:30] <lifeless> ok. Do we need someone to coordinate? Or can we just start reporting on it weekly ?
[11:30] <BjornT> but we should also try to encourage people to have that discussion before starting to implement the feature.
[11:30] <lifeless> BjornT: I agree, but that does not seem to be happening much.
[11:30] <lifeless> and I think the reason it does not is that things seem simpler than they are when you start.
[11:32] <BjornT> maybe we should try to improve our spec process, and require an implementation part that outlines how it should be done. then a reviewer could judge whether it sounds reasonable, or if it's likely to become a big patch.
[11:32] <lifeless> I thought we had that :)
[11:33] <BjornT> well, we should have it, but if you look at most of our specs, then they're incomplete...
[11:33] <jamesh> 1000 lines seems like a rough estimate of when a branch becomes complex
[11:33] <jamesh> do we want to still have such a discussion with the developer if they did a pre-implementation call before starting?
[11:33] <lifeless> Lets start with something simple. I'll whip up a pending-reviews patch to show a * on branches which have had an offer or a call
[11:34] <lifeless> and then we can all start having an eyeball once a day, when we look for our reviews to do, for ones that dont have a *, and are > 1000 lines
[11:34] <lifeless> jamesh: agreed.
[11:34] <lifeless> jamesh: I dont think so [more discussion] , but being involved is always good, so could go either way
[11:35] <BjornT> i think we want to have such calls even if there were a pre-implementation call. if the patch gets too large, it could be a sign that the pre-implemtation call didn't cover everything.
[11:36] <lifeless> mmm
[11:36] <lifeless> I'm much more comfortable with a branch that has had reasonable discussions with a reviewer going > 1000 lines, than one that has not
[11:37] <lifeless> lets see how it goes, and tune it ?
[11:37] <lifeless> I have one more agenda item, but I think we should leave this item on the agenda, as a recurring one, for a bit
[11:37] <lifeless> this has been good discussion so far, and we have more to have I think.
[11:38] <lifeless> ok ?
[11:38] <jamesh> okay
[11:38] <BjornT> yeah, that's true. still, it could be that at first, things looked easy, but then when starting to implement it, it turned out that some other changes were needed as well.
[11:38] <danilos> my mails are not ending up on launchpad list, and I am not getting any notice either (like it's stuck in moderation, or that delivery has failed, or whatever); anyone knows what's going on?
[11:38] <jamesh> danilos: iirc, you should get an email notification if that happens
[11:38] <jamesh> danilos: you sure the messages aren't caught in your MTA's queue?
[11:39] <lifeless> ok, last agenda item
[11:39] <lifeless>  * lifeless on leave
[11:39] <lifeless> I'm on leave for the last 3 weeks of december
[11:39] <danilos> jamesh: no, they are not stuck; I'll investigate a bit more, thanks (and sorry for interrupting the meeting)
[11:39] <lifeless> I need a volunteer to do the pending-reviews daily allocation, and either chair, or find a chair weekly, this meeting, until jan 1st
[11:40] <BjornT> i'll be on leave the last two weeks of december, so i could do it only the first week.
[11:41] <jamesh> I'm on leave 22nd - 5th
[11:41] <lifeless> how about this, BjornT - if you can start, and you find a replacement before you go on leave :).
[11:41] <lifeless> it can be a hot potato
[11:41] <jamesh> I can do it after BjornT goes on leave
[11:41] <BjornT> lifeless: sure, sounds good :)
[11:41] <lifeless> and they have to find their replacement :)
[11:41] <lifeless> jamesh: cool.
[11:41] <lifeless> ok. any other business ?
[11:42] <BjornT> not from me
[11:43] <lifeless> thanks for coming, see you in jan
[11:43] <lifeless> (meeting wise :)
[11:43] <lifeless> I'm still here this week.
[11:49] <jamesh> lifeless: I was thinking about your idea for bug 74011, I suppose the idea of merge one branch, commit, merge the other has the benefit of not giving a reverse diff for fixes made on the base branch
[11:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 74011 in launchpad-development-infrastructure "Allow saying against which branch a diff should be produced from" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74011
[11:50] <jamesh> lifeless: I guess I'd need to auto-resolve any conflicts from merging the base branch though
[12:00] <stu1> Do we still need to support /bugs/distros/ubuntu URLs ?  Perhaps that setting has been changed?
[12:45] <danilos> stub: no, everything seems to be fine, I'll check with my mail server administrator if it's actually getting caught in spam filter there; thanks for looking into it!
[01:59] <RichiH> sabdfl, kiko_race, mdz, lifeless, SteveA: we are thinking of getting the freenode site translated. it is, of course, not software and the licence is http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/2.0/ -- as it is nd, this means it is not open, either. would it be possible to make an exemption for freenode? the reason it's nd is that we do not want to be misquoted :/
[02:24] <SteveA> stub, danilos, BjornT. jamesh, spiv, lifeless, ddaa, cprov, matsubara: meet Matthew Revell (matthewrevell)
[02:24] <matthewrevell> Hello everyone!
[02:25] <stub> hi matthew
[02:25] <matsubara> hello matthewrevell. Welcome!
[02:25] <matthewrevell> thans
[02:25] <matthewrevell> s/thans/thanks
[02:26] <cprov> matthewrevell: hi, welcome !
[02:27] <jordi> hey matthew
[02:30] <SteveA> hey jordi, do you have a wiki page for me?
[02:33] <jordi> no, I was away all weekend, can try to write it today
[02:34] <SteveA> ok
[02:37] <ddaa> matthewrevell: good morning
[02:37] <ddaa> hu
[02:38] <ddaa> whatever the time of the day where you are
[02:38] <ddaa> matthewrevell: you're blog hasn't been very active lately
[02:40] <ddaa> oh, nevermind... there were two recent items about "cornish pastry product" (no clue what this means) and your new household member
[03:05] <static> moin
[03:10] <kiko> hello there hackers of the world
[03:10] <kiko> hey matthewrevell
[03:10] <kiko> hey danilos
[03:11] <kiko> RichiH, ping?
[03:20] <danilos> hey kiko
[03:20] <kiko> how's it going
[03:22] <danilos> kiko: it's fine, I've got some q's for you :)
[03:22] <kiko> danilos, I saw your email but haven't read it yet
[03:23] <danilos> kiko: ok, that's of lesser importance, I've got more important things as well :)
[03:44] <matthewrevell> kiko: Hey :)
[03:44] <kiko> how's it going!
[03:44] <kiko> good to have you around
[03:44] <kiko> wanna chat a bit?
[03:44] <matthewrevell> kiko: Not bad thanks. It's good to be here finally :)
[03:44] <matthewrevell> kiko: Yeah, would be good to chat.
[03:44] <kiko> matthewrevell, that was a long time! good to have you around
[03:44] <kiko> I am setting up a list of tasks for you
[03:45] <matthewrevell> kiko: Nice, look forward to seeing it :)
[03:45] <kiko> how is your tasklist yet? have you done the new staff stuff?
[03:46] <matthewrevell> kiko: Yeah, I think I've covered everything on the new staff wiki page. I'm just reading through the 32 material.
[03:46] <kiko> matthewrevell, ok. ping me when that's over
[03:47] <matthewrevell> Will do.
[03:49] <seiflotfy> hi
[03:49] <seiflotfy> can some1 help me
[03:49] <kiko> seiflotfy, of course
[03:49] <seiflotfy> seif@Snoopy:~/Projects/gnome-vpnc$ bzr merge<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:49] <seiflotfy> Permission denied (publickey).
[03:49] <seiflotfy> Permission denied (publickey).
[03:49] <seiflotfy> bzr: ERROR: Connection error: Unable to connect to SSH host bazaar.launchpad.net:None:
[03:49] <seiflotfy> what am i douing wrong
[03:49] <seiflotfy> i need an ssh key
[03:49] <seiflotfy> but where from
[03:57] <seiflotfy> there
[04:00] <matsubara> seiflotfy: did you upload your ssh into launchpad?
[04:04] <seiflotfy> yes i did
[04:04] <seiflotfy> u can chekc it out urself
[04:04] <seiflotfy> https://launchpad.net/people/seif
[04:09] <kiko> seiflotfy, can you sftp manually into bazaar.launchpad.net?
[04:10] <matsubara> it seem you're trying to merge using the timmpf account. Do you own that account as well? Shouldn't the command be: $ bzr merge http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~timmpf/gnome-vpnc/branch ?
[04:21] <seiflotfy> seif@Snoopy:~/Projects/gnome-vpnc$ bzr merge http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~timmpf/gnome-vpnc/branch
[04:21] <seiflotfy> bzr: ERROR: Branches have no common ancestor, and no merge base revision was specified.
[04:22] <seiflotfy> cd ..
[04:24] <kiko> seiflotfy, sounds like you're trying to merge different branches
[04:34] <seiflotfy> https://code.launchpad.net/products/gnome-vpnc/
[04:34] <seiflotfy> there is a branch from timmpf
[04:42] <RichiH> kiko: pong
[04:42] <kiko> RichiH, you were asking?
[04:42] <RichiH> kiko: yes
[04:42] <RichiH> kiko: basically, we want to use rosetta to translate the website of freenode
[04:43] <kiko> I see.
[04:43] <RichiH> kiko: i am not sure if hte licence our content is under is OK for you guys, though
[04:43] <kiko> I think there should be no problem in doing that, actually -- as long as you are okay with the translations potentially being reused in other projects.
[04:44] <RichiH> kiko: under the same licence it is under, i presume?
[04:44] <RichiH> or do we have to dual something more open as well?
[04:45] <danilos> RichiH: we'll be asking all translation contributors to submit their translations under BSD (or BSD-like) license real-soon-now
[04:46] <danilos> RichiH: and we're assuming something like that already, even though we didn't make it explicit
[04:46] <kiko> RichiH, AFAIK the license of the translations doesn't really depend or impinge on the license of the original text
[04:46] <danilos> RichiH: as for original content, we don't have any requirements set
[04:47] <danilos> RichiH: and having all translators submit translations under BSD means you'll also be able to use them on your website, regardless of the license
[04:47] <RichiH> yah
[04:47] <RichiH> sounds good to me, i will get a nod from our side and then register a project
[04:48] <RichiH> i need to come back to you guys to start a new project, correct?
[04:49] <danilos> RichiH: no, you can do that all on your own, afaik
[04:50] <RichiH> ah, cool
[05:09] <jordi> danilos: ok, it seems lschiere never raised the licence as a concern
[05:09] <danilos> jordi: right, thanks for checking
[05:57] <_MMA_> Hello all. Im trying to register a spec on Launchpad and its telling me my username is a "invalid value" when I put it in the "Drafter" field. It would be the same one as Im logged in with right?
[05:59] <_MMA_> I got it. inputting my email worked. Thats kinda confusing.
[06:10] <SteveA> kiko-fud: ping when you've got back
[06:21] <kiko> hey BjornT_
[06:21] <BjornT_> hi kiko
[06:24] <SteveA> kiko: ping
[06:24] <SteveA> kiko: help me sort out this call
[06:24] <kiko> SteveA, I'm doing 2 other things, so hold on for a bit
[06:24] <SteveA> well, it's getting near the end of the day in europe
[06:25] <SteveA> so, a bit is okay, if it is a short bit
[06:26] <kiko> BjornT_, just had a quick question: are you holding all the guided filebug reviews to land them all at once?
[06:26] <kiko> SteveA, yes, short.
[06:28] <BjornT_> kiko: yes, i plan to land them all at once. the last one should be approved today or tomorrow, though.
[06:28] <kiko> BjornT_, okay, I was just curious. thanks!
[06:28] <kiko> good job in breaking them up btw
[06:28] <BjornT_> thanks
[06:29] <SteveA> matthewrevell: see last 10 lines in the scrollback
[06:31] <matthewrevell> SteveA: Cool. I'm planning to be away from my desk from around 18:00 to get some food
[06:31] <SteveA> UTC?
[06:32] <matthewrevell> Sorry, yes
[06:32] <matthewrevell> I'm flexible though
[06:42] <kiko> matthewrevell, SteveA: let's do it.
[06:43] <matthewrevell> kiko: Skype?
[06:44] <kiko> I don't skype
[06:44] <kiko> but SteveA can call me
[06:44] <matthewrevell> ok
[06:45] <gummibaerchen> matthewrevell: skype is bad & mad :)
[06:50] <kiko> RichiH, were those answers good enough for you?
[06:50] <kiko> matthewrevell, SteveA: so.. if not now, maybe we can rebook in 30m?
[06:51] <matthewrevell> kiko, SteveA: That's fine by me.
[06:51] <kiko> SteveA, I can talk to matthewrevell without you, too <0.5 wink>
[06:52] <matthewrevell> :)
[06:54] <kiko> matthewrevell, is 30 minutes enough for food and rest? I'll call you at 18:30?
[06:54] <SteveA> kiko: you can have the secret call later
[06:55] <matthewrevell> kiko: I'll probably eat after the call
[06:55] <kiko> yeah, well, I need to be afk until 18:30 now, you took too long
[06:55] <matthewrevell> cool, okay :)
[06:55] <RichiH> kiko: yes, they were, thanks :)
[06:55] <SteveA> that would have been a very short call!
[06:56] <kiko-afk> RichiH, most welcome. let me know how your work progresses -- I am unsure if there's any negotiation that needs to happen, or if it's just DO IT
[06:56] <RichiH> kiko: as soon as i have the raw files, i will extract the text, put it in whatever format you guys need and upload
[06:56] <kiko-afk> RichiH, we use po-format. the same as everybody else (well, almost). consult with danilos if you need technical help there, he's the ninja
[06:56] <RichiH> kiko-afk: kbabel uses po, nay?
[06:56] <RichiH> i am sure i can figure it out anyway
[06:57] <danilos> RichiH: yes, kbabel uses it, but I can also suggest you try xml2po from gnome-doc-utils if you've got any sane XML format as source :)
[06:58] <RichiH> danilos: it is shtml and i fear it is messy
[06:58] <RichiH> i have never seen the raw shtml of our sites
[06:58] <RichiH> i hear it's horrible, though
[06:58] <RichiH> or they are just referring to shtml in general ;)
[06:58] <kiko-afk> it starts with "sh" for a reason
[07:00] <RichiH> kiko-afk: heh
[07:00] <danilos> RichiH: right, well, if  you can do any kind of normalization using things like xmlformat, maybe it'll be easier; if not, well, too bad ;)
[07:00] <danilos> s/xmlformat/xmllint/ :)
[07:15] <belito> belitoaba
[07:16] <belito> help
[08:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #74421 in rosetta "No entry for Codeine Edgy" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74421
[08:57] <kiko> we translate drug labels now too?
[09:41] <kiko> matsubara, I am publically assigning you with a new responsibility: validating the Fix Committed bugs when a rollout happens.
[09:41] <kiko> good luck! :-)
[09:41] <LarstiQ> ouch
[09:43] <kiko> life is a sea of pain and pleasure
[09:44] <matsubara> kiko: ok
[09:46] <Ubugtu> New bug: #74428 in malone "The change bug watch page tricks people into entering URLs" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74428
[09:53] <mdke> kiko: that doesn't get done automatically?
[09:53] <mdke> automatically is good
[09:54] <kiko> yeah, it doesn't happen yet
[09:55] <mdke> that would be great
[09:55] <kiko> yeah. BjornT__ will love us all
[09:56] <mdke> Ubuntu maintainers probably will too
[10:01] <Phoenix7477> anyone free to awnser a question about karma?
[10:01] <kiko> always
[10:01] <kiko> what's up
[10:01] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
[10:01] <kiko> guttes evening mpt
[10:01] <Phoenix7477> well, im just kind of curious. i'm trying to learn the whole launchpad system, and the bug system to get started. and i can't seem to find much documentation on what karma is exactly, and how its calculated
[10:01] <mpt> hello hello
[10:02] <mpt> kiko, did you or SteveA get to talk with Mark about "Ask a question"?
[10:02] <mpt> Phoenix7477, https://help.launchpad.net/KarmaCalculation
[10:02] <Phoenix7477> thank you :)
[10:03] <kiko> mpt, we didn't :-(
[10:04] <kiko> mpt, I like that text myself btw
[10:05] <mpt> because I don't want to postpone sending the next episode of Usman's to-do list
[10:05] <kiko> mpt, can you rehash so I can sign off? or is this in email?
[10:07] <mpt> The list of graphics to draw
[10:07] <mpt> Currently there's a "Request support" button, which will need redrawing
[10:07] <kiko> right
[10:08] <kiko> you want the alt text to be "Ask a question"
[10:08] <kiko> and a button to be rendered for that?
[10:08] <mpt> yes
[10:08] <kiko> approved
[10:08] <mpt> thank you
[10:08] <kiko> yvw
[10:10] <mpt> and goodnight :-)
[10:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #74433 in rosetta "Missing format specification in translation string should error" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74433
[10:11] <kiko> error isn't a very, btw
[10:11] <kiko> err
[10:11] <kiko> isn't a verb
[10:14] <matsubara> 3. (verb) What a program does when it stops as result of a programming error.
[10:15] <matsubara> From The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing (27 SEP 03) [foldoc] :
[10:16] <kiko> a program "errors"?
[10:16] <LarstiQ> yes
[10:16] <kiko> a program /may/ "error out"
[10:16] <kiko> but "errors"?
[10:16] <kiko> I've never heard that used anywhere
[10:17] <kiko> feel free to show me references by people called knuth, thompson or dijkstra
[10:20] <kiko> and send me a DVD if you can't :-)
[10:24] <mpt> "complain" would work :-)
[10:25] <mpt> oh, you already used that
[10:34] <SteveA> morning mpt
[10:35] <SteveA> mpt: how's your coordination with brilliant going?  maybe we should arrange a call with anthony sometime?
[10:37] <mpt> SteveA, scroll up half an hour :-) -- I'm just about to e-mail Usman + Anthony with the next to-do list
[10:39] <SteveA> I asked mark
[10:39] <SteveA> "ask a question" is okay
[10:40] <SteveA> mpt: we should try to talk with anthony on the phone tomorrow morning (europe time) to talk over the email
[10:40] <SteveA> the extra clarity by following up the email with voice is worth it in these cases I think
[10:41] <mpt> ok
[10:42] <mpt> BjornT__, around?
[10:43] <SteveA> so, when you write, propose a time after 9.30 UTC for a call with usman
[10:43] <SteveA> I'll be around then too
[10:43] <SteveA> um, for a call with anthony, I meant
[10:44] <SteveA> not usman
[10:44] <mpt> ok
[10:44] <mhb> kiko: good evening ... still nothing to test for me?
[10:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #74437 in rosetta "OOPS translating string with format specification." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74437
[11:21] <mpt> kiko, did you ever fix helpers.msgid_html?
[11:36] <kiko> mpt, I moved it around, and I believe I fixed it -- what needed to be fixed again?
 the code you change does something like
 replace("a", "b")
 replace("b", TranslationConstant.X)
 which is, well.. :)
[11:39] <kiko> mpt, I think I fixed it, yeah.
[11:42] <mpt> ok, cool
[11:46] <Ubugtu> New bug: #74443 in malone "Advanced search form's assignee field doesn't auto-select its radiobutton" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74443
[11:49] <_thumper_> how does someone enter a mailing list email for a team atm?
[11:49] <_thumper_> and how does that effect emails sent out, does it send to team email and members or does it override sending to members?
[11:50] <kiko> _thumper_, it overrides.
[11:50] <kiko> and _thumper_ you set it as your teams preferred email, in the team page.
[11:51] <_thumper_> kiko, do you have to be the team owner to see that option?
[11:51] <kiko> or a team admin, I think.
[11:52] <_thumper_> kiko, that makes sense, thanks
[11:59] <newz2000> Can I reasonably assume that there are not going to be two teams with the same name, and can I make the same assumption about displayname?
[12:01] <kiko> there will never be two teams with the same name
[12:01] <kiko> there can be two teams with the same displayname, but it would be odd
[12:01] <newz2000> kiko: thanks
[12:02] <kiko> that's a bit of an odd phishing attack there
[12:02] <SteveA> that's actually a difficult one
[12:03] <SteveA> we could detect that and show the real "id" name in brackets afterwards
[12:03] <SteveA> but that wouldn't accoiunt for confusingly similar display names
[12:03] <SteveA> and might actually make the phishability of it worse
[12:03] <kiko> yeah.
[12:04] <newz2000> Just trying to figure out this art.ubuntu.com authentication thing. So far, it's going real smooth.
[12:04] <_thumper_> there are two teams called "Bazaar Developers"
[12:04] <kiko> nice
[12:04] <SteveA> slashdot does this with names -- they put the numeric id in brackets after the name
[12:04] <kiko> _thumper_, that's a phishing attack right there
[12:05] <kiko> does one advertise 7 inch extensions?
[12:05] <SteveA> we need that "report abuse" button
[12:05] <_thumper_> I think one was for baz
[12:06] <Ubugtu> New bug: #74444 in soyuz "Remove partial commits from publish-distro" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74444
[12:07] <newz2000> Do we confirm user's e-mail addresses during their sign-up? i.e. can I count on the e-mail address I get from launchpad to be valid?
[12:07] <kiko> yes.
[12:07] <kiko> you can.
[12:07] <newz2000> sweet
[12:08] <newz2000> you guys make my job so easy


[12:42] <dpm> hey chrisccoulson, my Firefox has just lost the global menu. Now I don't have any menus at all. Is there any quick way to fix this?
[12:44] <chrisccoulson> dpm - restart unity-panel-service :)
[12:45] <dpm> chrisccoulson, 'unity-panel-service: unrecognized service'
[12:48] <chrisccoulson> dpm - oh, "killall unity-panel-service" will restart it
[12:50] <dpm> chrisccoulson, hm, that restarted the panel, but firefox still has the same problem. After restarting FF, there is some progress: I can see global menus, but I cannot see the close, minimize and maximize buttons (and the FF window does not come up when I click on the icon in the launcher)
[12:51] <chrisccoulson> dpm, sounds like something else is broken in unity (bamf, maybe?)
[12:51] <chrisccoulson> you're probably better off just restarting your session
[12:52] <dpm> oh, bummer :( - thanks anyway chrisccoulson for your help
[13:03] <cousin_luigi> hi
[13:04] <chrisccoulson> hi
[13:08] <cousin_luigi> what's blocking FF8 on oneiric?
[13:10] <chrisccoulson> cousin_luigi, i'm not sure anymore :(
[13:21] <cousin_luigi> chrisccoulson: perhaps waiting for 8.01 to realease it?
[13:26] <chrisccoulson> cousin_luigi, i doubt it. 8.0.1 only fixes an issue specific to mac
[13:27] <cousin_luigi> chrisccoulson: who's in charge about this?
[13:28] <chrisccoulson> cousin_luigi, well, i prepare the updates, micahg publishes them
[13:37] <cousin_luigi> chrisccoulson: oh
[13:38] <cousin_luigi> and is there some problem with 8.0?
[13:40] <chrisccoulson> cousin_luigi, not AFAIK
[13:42] <chrisccoulson> you're not the only person asking this. people are asking the same questions on forums, askubuntu, and in my inbox as well, but i don't really have an answer
[13:42] <chrisccoulson> you'll need to ask micahg when he's around
[13:44] <cousin_luigi> chrisccoulson: ok, thanks
[14:10] <jdstrand> cousin_luigi: the updates are actively being worked on. there were some regressions that had to be addressed. aiui, they have and the updates are being tested. I believe they should be out sometime today
[14:10] <jdstrand> micahg: ^ please correct me if I am wrong
[14:10] <cousin_luigi> ok
[14:10] <micahg> yes, should be going out today
[14:32] <cousin_luigi> hallelujah!:)
[14:36] <micahg> cousin_luigi: sorry for the delay
[14:43] <cousin_luigi> :)
[14:45] <cousin_luigi> bbl
[15:58] <joelesko> chrisccoulson: I need some help with bzr. Is there a wiki page or some docs on the process that is used for beta and release branches?
[15:59] <joelesko> chrisccoulson: Not sure if that was a question for you or micahg
[18:08] <joelesko> micahg: I think I did something wrong with my branches. I cannot figure out how to get the changes from the beta to the release branch.
[18:08] <micahg> joelesko: bzr merge /path/to/beta /path/to/release
[18:09] <micahg> joelesko: then collapse the changelog before committing
[18:09] <micahg> did they release 2.5?
[18:09] <joelesko> Yes
[18:09] <micahg> ok
[18:09] <joelesko> In the source repo.
[18:09] <micahg> sorry for not getting the beta uploaded, I've been swamped, will try to get 2.5 uploaded later this week
[18:12] <joelesko> micahg: np.
[18:13] <joelesko> I know it will not be done, but git is really great at managing branches.
[18:14] <micahg> ah, yeah, I think bzr can handle that inherently as well, it's just LP isn't quite set up to deal with it properly
[18:17] <joelesko> I hope it will one day. I thought you used the bzr bundle command to track the atomic commits.
[18:18]  * micahg knows not of bzr bundle
[18:19] <joelesko> Bundle will not work though with the way I did the branch in SM. Just not used to having seperate directories for each branch. Git can spoil.
[18:19] <joelesko> git can spoil you, fast and easy
[18:21] <joelesko> If I was reading it correctly, bzr bundle will bring all the commits from a dev branch to the release branch. That way if you want to remove just 1 commit in release, it would be easy
[18:21] <joelesko> I was thinking that's what you were doing.
[18:57] <joelesko> micahg: sorry I was wrong. bundle looks just like merge. I was getting confused with the way git handles it.
[19:27] <FernandoMiguel> good nite
[20:14] <joelesko> micahg: I updated my dev branch for 2.5 from the beta branch. Do I need to propose for merge?
[20:39] <micahg> joelesko: yes


[06:44] <dholbach> hey
[06:51] <Mister_Q> good morning everyone o/
[07:47] <belkinsa_> G'day all.
[07:49] <popey> morning
[07:50] <dholbach> hey popey
[08:27] <Kilos> hi dholbach svij and others that are awake
[08:27] <dholbach> hi Kilos
[08:28] <Mister_Q> Kilos o/
[08:30] <Kilos> hi Mister_Q
[08:30] <Kilos> and popey
[08:40]  * belkinsa is awake but bed time for me is in three or four hours.
[08:40] <belkinsa> G'day Kilos.
[08:41] <Kilos> hi belkinsa hyou ok?
[08:41] <Kilos> s/hyou/you
[08:42] <belkinsa> Kilos: I am, but I'm not home. In fact, I'm (timezone wise) 14 hours away from home and many many kilometers from home.
[08:42] <Kilos> wow
[08:42] <Kilos> look after yourself
[08:43] <belkinsa> Kilos: I am and also my brother since he is also with me.  In fact, he had the honor to play on the Opera House's stage with his high school band.
[08:43] <Kilos> wonderful
[08:44] <belkinsa> And we are ones who travelled the farrest to play on that stage.
[08:45] <Kilos> enjoy
[08:45] <belkinsa> We are enjoying it and we still have two more days!
[08:47] <belkinsa> Oi!  I saw an aspring Ubuntu user from one of the chours from New Zealand!  He had the print version of the free handbook that we can get with him.  I introducted myself and we may get another folk in the Community.
[08:48] <Kilos> cool
[08:51] <belkinsa> As in this one: http://tinyurl.com/zaalmu4
[10:26] <knome> popey, you got mail from me, along with balloons and jose. canonical needs to send the invoice by 15th, so please act upon it sooner than later.
[10:38] <popey> not sure I'm the best person to as I go on vacation and will be afk and away from email from the next week.
[10:38] <popey> dpm: ^
[10:40] <czajkowski> also not all finance depts can turn around and just pay, some do have a grace period, and weeks they run payment
[10:42] <dpm> popey, can you CC me and Claire on that e-mail and start the process and then we can pick it up from there?
[10:43] <popey> ok
[10:45] <knome> czajkowski, sure, they don't need to pay me immediately, but as google will pay canonical, they will need to send the invoice to google before the 15th.
[11:28] <dpm> thanks, and lunch time :)
[13:10] <jose> keep me in the loop to ping Stefanie if needed
[15:50] <tsimonq2> o/ all
[15:51] <Kilos> hi tsimonq2
[15:52] <tsimonq2> o/ how are you Kilos?
[15:52] <Kilos> good ty lad and you?
[15:52] <tsimonq2> great :)


[00:06] <mwhudson> ok unmkinitramfs is terrifying
[00:20] <Odd_Bloke> alias unmkinitramfs=sudo rm -f /boot/initrd*
[00:30] <xnox> mwhudson:  lets do a binwalk, then lets skip things, and do stuff.
[00:31] <mwhudson> xnox: i love parsing binary formats in shell
[00:31] <xnox> mwhudson:  note to self, when grub loads multiple initrds it inserts padding between them for alignment. also note that intel-ucode tries to insert weird cpio members too for alignment. note that we add amd64-ucode too. i'm pretty sure is that end result is _not_ aligned.
[00:32] <mwhudson> xnox: i have this side project to make customizing installer isos easier, one of the things i want to do is update .disk/info/casper-uuid-generic if you replace the initrd
[00:32] <mwhudson> but right now i just want a beer
[00:40] <xnox> mwhudson:  i'm not sure if there is a better way. in bios days one didn't know where one booted from; but in UEFI days we do.
[00:40] <xnox> mwhudson:  sdboot does store in efi variable the drive one booted from, hence one should look up squashfs from the same place.
[00:41] <xnox> mwhudson:  i wonder if we can make casper leverage that.
[00:42] <mwhudson> hm that would be nice
[00:50] <xnox> mwhudson:  i.e. not sure if we can inspect "BootCurrent" standard efi variable to figure out where abouts shim got loaded from this time around.
[00:50] <xnox> and decide that that's the badger
[00:52] <mwhudson> xnox: i suspect a distressing number of server installs are still bios too
[00:52] <mwhudson> although maybe that's changing finally
[00:54] <xnox> mwhudson:  new servers not only don't have bios, they crutially do not have bios or efi ipxe, meaning efi-httpboot as the only option
[00:55] <xnox> plus bmc which is the weird "virtual cdrom" option.
[00:55] <mwhudson> nice
[11:06] <DarkTrick> Does this mean, my actively used for debian unstable? https://imgur.com/a/SSK4YJi
[11:08] <JackFrost> ...No, it means you set the homepage URL to that.
[11:09] <DarkTrick> JackFrost, thank you. ... I wonder when I did that :D
[12:36] <TJ-> possible problem with the hirsute aarch64 ISO images; the GPT/EFI-SP is failing to be recognised from a Samsung Galaxy Book2 (Qualcomm Snapdragon 850) - manually writing a GPT + EFI-SP and copying grubaa64.efi to /EFI/BOOT/BOOTAA64.EFI works fine
[12:55] <JackFrost> ddstreet: Any idea why ubuntu-dev-tools prints keyring modules it can't load when firing up a lot of the commands?  It's rather annoying.
[12:56] <JackFrost> Eg, `syncpackage $anything` will print out a lot of 'Loading $foo' starting with kwallet and going down a line of a bunch of them.  Granted, redirecting stderr from all programs un ubuntu-dev-tools would "fix" the problem, but this is far from ideal.
[13:21] <rbasak> cjwatson: o/ just checking you still have my changes file proposal in your queue please?
[13:24] <cjwatson> rbasak: I do, sorry
[13:24] <cjwatson> It has been a Week
[13:28] <rbasak> np, thanks
[13:29] <rbasak> I don't have a particular deadline; I just wanted to make sure it wasn't lost.
[14:35] <Odd_Bloke> rbasak: We maintain cloud-init's packaging in our upstream repo; we don't want to change that, but I was wondering (idly, mostly) if there's a good way of us getting that history into git-ubuntu somehow?
[15:00] <ddstreet> JackFrost i don't see the prints you're talking about
[15:20] <rbasak> Odd_Bloke: there is a method that will work, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea. So I don't suggest doing it immediately, but we can ponder it. If you were to merge git-ubuntu's history into your packaging branch in your upstream repo, then git-ubuntu would be able to adopt subsequent commits that you make into its own history. But that might make a complete mess of the git history in a not-useful
[15:20] <rbasak> way, which is why I'm not sure it's a good idea.
[15:21] <rbasak> Apart from that, I'm not sure of what an integration might look like. Ideas welcome!
[16:38] <Laibsch> Can I interest someone in sponsoring bug 1916250?  I used Conflicts/Replaces even if only Replaces by itself might be enough.
[16:56] <rbasak> Laibsch: sure, although Conflicts is a little too strong perhaps, and are best avoided to give apt the most leeway to resolve things.
[16:56] <rbasak> Laibsch: can you pick from https://wiki.debian.org/PackageTransition please?
[16:58] <rbasak> Unversioned is also unusual; I'd expect versioned relationships in this case I think.
[17:22] <Laibsch> rbasak: Thank you for your comment.  Frankly, I lack some history of the package.  Looking through the changelog, it seems as if this package was neglected for a long time and recently a new Debian maintainer stepped in with frequent updates.
[17:23] <Laibsch> There's been an API change from upstream apparently.  Versions were also bumped from 1.x to 2.x upstream.
[17:24] <Laibsch> Versions 1 and 2 don't coexist in the same Debian pocket FWIW.
[17:24] <rbasak> Laibsch: sorry, I don't know anything about the package either. I appreciate your efforts in fixing bugs!
[17:25] <rbasak> But to fix it we need to understand what is necessary unfortunately
[17:37] <Laibsch> digging deeper, I find that hirsute provides both gir1.2-signon packages (which is most likely not desirable)
[17:39] <Laibsch> rbasak: Will it drop automatically from the archive, given that the source is now missing?
[17:39] <Laibsch> for hirsute
[17:40] <Laibsch> https://packages.ubuntu.com/hirsute/gir1.2-signon-2.0 and https://packages.ubuntu.com/hirsute/gir1.2-signon-1.0
[18:06] <rbasak> Laibsch: yes - it's in the NBS report, so the old source will be deleted when the archive admins clean up - usually only once per cycle I think.
[18:06] <rbasak> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/libsignon-glib1
[18:07] <rbasak> But I think that shouldn't make a difference to what's needed for the binary packages?
[18:07] <cjwatson> NBS clean up is quite a bit more than once a cycle
[18:07] <rbasak> Ah, OK
[18:07]  * cjwatson does that one now
[18:08] <cjwatson> Well, NBS doesn't involve removing *source*
[18:08] <cjwatson> but rather binaries
[18:10] <rbasak> Yes, sorry.
[18:10] <rbasak> Looks like they're both from the same source.
[18:40] <Laibsch> rbasak: After some looking into it, I believe that indeed the Conflicts line is too strict and not necessary.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libsignon-glib/+bug/1916250/comments/3
[18:44] <Laibsch> Concerning the link to the wiki page, I don't it is either of the options listed there with #5 being closest but I think that adding an empty transitional package would be overkill here.
[18:44] <Laibsch> I don't think it is either of the options ...
[23:15] <JawnSmith> Is any core dev available to restart the autopkgtest for iputils that was blocked by systemd? The new version of systemd should resolve the issue
[23:40] <JackFrost> ddstreet: Hmm, have kwallet installed?