[01:34] <LaserJock> bah
[01:34] <LaserJock> bdoin just left when I needed him
[04:01] <sbalneav> LaserJock: man, nbd-server is COMPLETELY broken
[04:02] <sbalneav> It's so utterly, utterly broken.
[04:02] <sbalneav> In the entire history of broken, there's never been a broken more broken than nbd-server broken.
[04:03] <sbalneav> If you look up "broken" in the dictionary, there's a picture of a dead nbd-server lying on the floor.
[04:03] <`6og> sbalneav, is something not working?
[04:03] <`6og> ;)
[04:03] <sbalneav> Nah, everything's fine :)
[04:04] <sbalneav> EXCEPT NBD-SERVER!!!!!!111oneone
[04:04] <`6og> lol
[04:06] <ath> could I ask somebody for help with edubuntu?
[04:07] <ath> I am a little bit stuck
[04:08] <sbalneav> Yes, I give you permission to ask.
[04:08] <sbalneav> :)
[04:08] <ath> haha
[04:08] <ath> thanks
[04:09] <ath> I am trying to get edu running for our small highschool
[04:09] <ath> we have about 8 computers and I want them all networked to a server
[04:10] <ath> I am trying to get edu working first on vmware server
[04:12] <sbalneav> umm
[04:12] <ath> and now I am trying to get the other machines to boot to the network.  The rom-o-matic thing is hard to do.  Do I have to open the box to see what kind of nic or is there a way of seeing the info in  ubuntu?
[04:13] <sbalneav> What, if you boot ubuntu on the client?
[04:13] <sbalneav> You can download a universal etherboot boot floppy
[04:13] <sbalneav> http://etherboot.anadex.de or ftp://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP/Universal_boot_floppy
[04:14] <ath> sorry, I am not being clear.  I installed edubuntu workstation thinking that it was the thin client.
[04:14] <sbalneav>
[04:14] <ath> then I found out that you need to boot into the network
[04:14] <sbalneav> So you have a server, right?
[04:15] <ath> I do have a server on the server machine.. but I am running it in vmware server on my desktop
[04:16] <sbalneav> So, the server machine's a "virtual" server, correct?
[04:17] <ath> yes
[04:17] <sbalneav> I don't know how well edubuntu's going to work from vmware, since I don't have vmware.
[04:17] <sbalneav> However, depending on the client machines, they may already be able to boot off the network, depending on the machine.
[04:17] <sbalneav> What kind of machines are they?
[04:18] <ath> sempron processors, boxes put together in some guys little computer shop
[04:18] <ath> they are fine for desktops, I am just tired of servicing all of them
[04:19] <`6og> ath, semprons should pxe boot
[04:19] <sbalneav> ok, you might want to look in the bios setup on those machines.  I'll wager they can PXE boot.
[04:19] <sbalneav> If so, you don't need etherboot.
[04:19] <ath> really?  Oh, I hope that is the case
[04:20] <ath> if I am able to select pxe boot I shouldn't have to load anything else on the machine right?
[04:20] <sbalneav> Yep!
[04:20] <`6og> ath, if your pxe booting you dont need cd/hdd/floppy drives at all
[04:20] <sbalneav> Now, whether or not you'll get them to SEE the virtual edubuntu machine's another matter entirely.
[04:21] <ath> really?
[04:21] <ath> I will have to tinker with this for the next few days.
[04:22] <ath> thanks for helping me.  I'll come back later.
[04:22] <`6og> as long as the virtual machine is not being firewalled out of action by the host, it should be fine
[04:22] <ath> oh, I don't think it is.
[04:22] <ath> the firewall on the router won't do it?
[04:23] <`6og> dont know
[04:23] <ath> ok, well thanks for now
[04:35] <LaserJock> sbalneav: well, that's no good
[04:36] <LaserJock> coming in a little late
[04:46] <sbalneav> Man, how can I revert to the previous version?
[05:02] <LaserJock> sbalneav: you can grab it off of Launchpad
[05:02] <sbalneav> this completely and utterly breaks all of ltsp.
[05:03] <LaserJock> will 2.8.7 work?
[05:03] <sbalneav> Launchpad needs a "DEFCON5" setting. :)
[05:03] <sbalneav> yeah, that was the previous version.
[05:03] <LaserJock> I think that's called Critical ;-)
[05:03] <LaserJock> do you want source of .debs?
[05:03] <LaserJock> s/of/or/
[05:04] <sbalneav> both, actually
[05:04] <sbalneav> I'd love to dig into the code and find out.  What I need to see is if the UPSTREAM has hacked this out, or if wouter@debian's hozed us.
[05:06] <sbalneav> bug filed.
[05:06] <sbalneav> Now to look up upstream.  I think it's on kernel.org
[05:08] <LaserJock> source is: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nbd/1:2.8.7-5ubuntu1
[05:08] <LaserJock> i386 .debs are: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nbd/1:2.8.7-5ubuntu1/+build/338868
[05:09] <sbalneav> Cripes.
[05:09] <sbalneav> It's right in upstream
[05:11] <sbalneav> gaaahhh
[05:36] <LaserJock> sbalneav: have you looked for a bug report in Debian?
[07:52] <LaserJock> highvoltage: you're up?
[07:59] <highvoltage> LaserJock: yep
[07:59] <LaserJock> isn't quite early there?
[07:59] <highvoltage> LaserJock: a bit early for me for a Saturday... but strange things happen :)
[07:59] <highvoltage> 8am
[08:00] <LaserJock> feel like doing some bug triage? :-)
[08:03] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I only have about 20 minutes before I have to leave for an appointment, something I could do in that timespace?
[08:07] <highvoltage> LaserJock: if I can help with that later, please send me a ping, let me know what I can do
[08:12] <LaserJock> highvoltage: I was just on an Edubuntu bug fixing kick today
[08:12] <highvoltage> LaserJock: ah, ok. ogra resolved quite a bunch of them earlier this week, I'll go throught the list when I get back home and see how much is left and work through it
[08:13] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I did some website stuff last night, edubuntu.org is now on Drupal 5.1, and the https links work, and Matthew is in the US so he could at least get some colour scheme modifications for us
[08:14] <highvoltage> we're basing on the Canonical.com theme instead of the Ubuntu.com one, it's better and has support for more stuff.
[08:19] <LaserJock> highvoltage: so when will it go live?
[10:15] <LaserJock> ogra: I looked through all the gcompris bugs today and was able to close a few.
[12:00] <`6og> could you use a sparc server with i386 chroots as an ltsp server?
[12:10] <juliux> yes you can
[12:10] <juliux> i installed ubuntu-server on a sparc
[12:11] <`6og> interesting.
[12:11] <juliux> then i installed the ltsp packages and i copied a i386er chroot from an i386er computer to the sparc
[12:11] <juliux> its running fine
[12:11] <juliux> but i only tested it with an old ultra 60 sparc
[12:11] <`6og> i assume it doesnt support stuff like flash?
[12:12] <`6og> workstation5 is probably the oldest there
[12:12] <juliux> hm i didnt tested flash
[12:12] <juliux> because it is not my sparc;) and i dont want to have the ultra6 sparc here at home
[12:12] <`6og> hehe
[12:13] <juliux> the sun monitor is to big for my desk
[12:13] <`6og> wonder how netbsd runs on 32bit sparc, i want to use them for /something/
[12:13] <`6og> lol
[01:11] <rockprincess> hello all!
[01:11] <juliux> hi rockprincess
[01:12] <`6og> rockprincess, !!
[01:12] <`6og> good to see you again!
[01:12] <rockprincess> hi juliux and `6og!
[01:12] <`6og> :)
[01:12] <rockprincess> I've got a serious problem :(
[01:13] <rockprincess> http://yapa.codein.at/?id=40 ... it's all explained here, maybe some of you know what causes it, I'm totally clueless
[01:14] <juliux> rockprincess, did you try to run e2fsck /dev/hda7 ?
[01:14] <rockprincess> juliux: not yet...because i have no idea what it actually does...I was worried that I could loose some data?!
[01:15] <juliux> rockprincess, you als can try to run e2fsck -b 8103 /dev/hda7
[01:15] <juliux> rockprincess, e2fsck is a programm to check/repair the filesystem
[01:15] <`6og> rockprincess, what does `sudo fdisk -l` give?
[01:16] <rockprincess> juliux: ohh i see, can I just run it in a terminal right now, or shall i boot into recovery mode?
[01:16] <`6og> also `mount`
[01:16] <juliux> re
[01:16] <juliux> rockprincess, you can try it now
[01:16] <juliux> rockprincess, at first e2fsck /dev/hda7
[01:17] <juliux> if that not works with the -b 8139 option
[01:18] <rockprincess> `6og: http://yapa.codein.at/?id=41 that's what sudo fdisk -l says
[01:18] <`6og> rockprincess, the devices dont exist
[01:18] <`6og> rockprincess, have you unplugged the drive/moved the sytem around?
[01:18] <rockprincess> `6og: it does....it's inside my pc
[01:19] <`6og> rockprincess, not to the kernel they dont
[01:19] <juliux> rockprincess, i think best way is to reboot
[01:19] <rockprincess> `6og: not at all.....that device is actually my kubuntu system for my other pc....but it has some important data, that i wanted to move to the new pc now...
[01:20] <juliux> rockprincess, the you should get again the thing where it says there is an error press strg+d to reboot normal
[01:20] <rockprincess> juliux: everytime i boot with this hd plugged in, this error message appears, when i go to fstab and uncomment these partitions, then the error message doesn't appear
[01:20] <juliux> but this time you e2fsck in this "terminal"
[01:20] <`6og> rockprincess, the kernel cant see the whole hdd anymore (hda). something must have caused it - drive dying, kernel update (perhaps), and a few other things could cuae it
[01:20] <`6og> *cause
[01:21] <`6og> rockprincess, does the file /var/log/fsck/checkfs exist?
[01:21] <rockprincess> `6og: kernel update probably, because I installed ubuntu studio on the same hard drive as my edubuntu system (which i'm on at the moment)....
[01:21] <rockprincess> `6og: checking if it exists....one second...
[01:22] <rockprincess> `6og: it's there....
[01:23] <rockprincess> shall i pastebin it?
[01:24] <`6og> juliux, what do you think?
[01:24] <juliux> i think reboot the system, see what happen then
[01:25] <rockprincess> `6og: that's my checkfs ... http://yapa.codein.at/?id=42
[01:25] <juliux> if it tells you again that e2fsck fails run it manual
[01:25] <juliux> then you get more errors
[01:25] <rockprincess> ok good idea!
[01:25] <juliux> fsck.ext3: No such file or directory while trying to open /dev/hda7 /dev/hda7)
[01:25] <juliux> The superblock could not be read or does not describe a correct ext2 filesystem. If the device is valid and it really contains an ext2 filesystem (and not swap or ufs or something else), then the superblock is corrupt, and you might try running e2fsck with an alternate superblock:
[01:25] <juliux> e2fsck -b 8193 <device>
[01:25] <juliux> there is says everthing what you should do;)
[01:26] <rockprincess> juliux: can i run it in the terminal, or shall i reboot? because if i ran it in the terminal, I could copy and paste the output whereas when I reboot i'd have to write it down?
[01:26] <`6og> it forgets to meantion crossing your fingers ;)
[01:26] <juliux> if you then start normal the device is not working because the kernel unplug it
[01:26] <juliux> rockprincess, reboot pls,
[01:26] <rockprincess> ok
[01:26] <juliux> rockprincess, if you get this mainteance shell and you start then with strg+d normal you have no access on the partition
[01:27] <rockprincess> is it risky? can i loose any data doing it?
[01:27] <juliux> you shouldn loose any data
[01:27] <rockprincess> yeah that's what I thought as well....
[01:27] <rockprincess> ok, hopefully back in a few minutes....
[01:29] <juliux> `6og, to come back to your sparc, what kind of sparc do you have?
[01:29] <`6og> hehe.
[01:30] <`6og> juliux, i have 8 or 9 'working', and half a dozen for parts
[01:30] <`6og> juliux, sparcstation[5,10] , sparcstation10, sunblade 1[5,0] 0, 4x ultra5
[01:30] <`6og> um, sparc*server*10
[01:31] <juliux> cool
[01:32] <juliux> if i have the money i want to buy a quad sparc ;)
[01:32] <`6og> hehe.
[01:32] <`6og> i just want a niagra, i dont care how many die's there are :)
[01:33] <juliux> i think a quad sprac is a pretty good ltsp server;)
[01:33] <`6og> hehe. pity it wouldnt make a good heater *needs heating atm*
[01:33] <`6og> perhaps i need a Power6 system for winter, and a niagra for summer ;)
[01:34] <juliux> hehe
[01:34] <`6og> juliux, do you have much sparc gear yourself?
[01:34] <juliux> a power4+ system is also good for the summer
[01:34] <`6og> sparc or any not intel stuff
[01:34] <juliux> i have no sparc;)
[01:34] <`6og> i only have old G3 macs :(
[01:34] <`6og> on ppc front
[01:34] <`6og> ah :o go get some :P
[01:35] <juliux> but a friend of me has around 20 ultra20 sparcs, and an ultra 60, ultra40
[01:35] <`6og> 20? wth? he into clustering?
[01:35] <juliux> his idea was to cluster them but he didnt do it since today
[01:35] <juliux> he gets all the sparcs from the university for 10 each
[01:36] <`6og> wow. why cant uni's in australia be like that :|
[01:36] <`6og> that said, i've got some pretty funky kit from uni's
[01:37] <`6og> juliux, are all your systems IA32/AMD64, or do you do 'alternative' stuff?
[01:38] <rockprincess> back
[01:38] <`6og> wb :)
[01:38] <rockprincess> unfortunately e2fsck didn't work :(
[01:38] <juliux> `6og,  i have a via epia system, and amd athlon xp 2400+, an pentium d and a core 2 duo
[01:39] <juliux> rockprincess, did you try it with -b 8139 option?
[01:39] <`6og> rockprincess, :S
[01:39] <juliux> `6og, i have no space for alternative stuff and not realy time to play with it
[01:39] <`6og> juliux, just the 4? cool :)
[01:39] <rockprincess> juliux: yep.... root@rosasgasse: e2fsck -b 8193 /dev/hda7
[01:39] <`6og> i understand the problem *g*
[01:40] <rockprincess> juliux: it says e2fsck: No such file or directory while trying to open /dev/hda7
[01:40] <juliux> `6og, but if i get a job this summer i will buy a xeon dual for xen;)
[01:40] <juliux> rockprincess, sounds not good
[01:40] <juliux> rockprincess, did you e2fsck  in the maintance shell?
[01:41] <`6og> rockprincess, can you pastebin dmesg (or email it to us/me)?
[01:41] <rockprincess> juliux: yep, after hitting CTRL+D then it booted edubuntu
[01:41] <`6og> dmesg |mail -s "dmesg output from `hostname`"<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:41] <rockprincess> `6og: sure
[01:41] <juliux> rockprincess, so you try to run e2fsck bevor pressing crlt +d
[01:41] <rockprincess> juliux: indeed
[01:42] <juliux> rockprincess, hmm
[01:42] <rockprincess> `6og: what shall insert for hostname?
[01:42] <`6og> rockprincess, shell should do it for you
[01:43] <`6og> if i got that right ;)
[01:43] <juliux> rockprincess, you also can try to do it from a livecd
[01:43] <juliux> rockprincess, because then is nothing running from the local harddisk
[01:43] <rockprincess> it worked really fine before installing ubuntu studio (which obviously uses a different kernel version)
[01:43] <juliux> rockprincess, did you try to boot another kernel?
[01:44] <rockprincess> juliux: booted it with knoppix and it worked fine....and then booted this hd (hda) from my other pc with its kubuntu and it worked fine as well
[01:44] <juliux> rockprincess, did you also try to use an other kernel? did you run e2fsck from a livecd?
[01:46] <rockprincess> juliux: nope, haven't tried neither of them....these are the ubuntu studio kernels kernel 2.6.20-15-lowlatency and kernel 2.6.20-15-generic...and then there are the usual edubuntu edgy kernels 2.6.17-11-386 and 2.6.17-10-386
[01:46] <juliux> rockprincess, try the normal edgy kernel
[01:47] <juliux> rockprincess, it he ubuntustudio kernel are some flags set which are not set in a normal kernel
[01:47] <rockprincess> i've tried the 2.6.17-11-386 one
[01:47] <rockprincess> juliux: shall i try the 2.6.17-10-386 one now?
[01:48] <juliux> so you allready tried an other kernel;)
[01:48] <rockprincess> juliux: ahh, so it this (ubuntustudio kernel) the root of all evil? ;)
[01:48] <juliux> rockprincess, could be
[01:48] <juliux> i havent tested ubuntustudio
[01:48] <juliux> but i think it is good to use an not ubuntustudio kernel
[01:49] <rockprincess> juliux: i haven't tried it with 2.6.17-10-386 yet...
[01:49] <juliux> it that the old edgy kernel?
[01:49] <rockprincess> i assume
[01:49] <juliux> you can give it a try
[01:51] <rockprincess> will give it a try, if that fails then I'll try e2fsck once again...if that fails as well, then I will just remove the hda disk and just burn the important data on a cd or dvd....
[01:52] <rockprincess> i really shouldn't have installed ubuntu studio....i regret it now...
[01:53] <juliux> in the future use vmware for testing;)
[01:53] <rockprincess> true, good idea!
[01:53] <juliux> or use an extra pc for testing
[03:30] <iTurtle> How can I convince my school to use edubuntu?
[03:38] <sbalneav> ogra: ping
[03:38] <ogra> sbalneav, pongie
[03:38] <sbalneav> hey
[03:38] <ogra> yes i know nbd is broken :(((
[03:39] <ogra> fiddling with it the whole day already
[03:39] <sbalneav> lol
[03:39] <ogra> it seems to not run by inetd anymore
[03:39] <sbalneav> no, I filed a bug
[03:39] <sbalneav> It's like, horribly broken.
[03:39] <ogra> but if i run it as standalone we miss out the keepalive stuff
[03:39] <ogra> no, it works fine standalone
[03:39] <sbalneav> right
[03:40] <sbalneav> Running it standalone isn't,IMHO, a good options.
[03:40] <sbalneav> upstream broke it.
[03:40] <ogra> if they would have a proper keepalive option i'D use it like that
[03:40] <ogra> but they dont
[03:40] <sbalneav> We have two options, as I see it:
[03:40] <sbalneav> 1) Revert from 2.9.3 to 2.8.mumble.
[03:40] <ogra> 2.7
[03:40] <sbalneav> yeah
[03:41] <sbalneav> or 2) fix it ourselves, properly.
[03:41] <ogra> err, no
[03:41] <ogra> 2.8 was right
[03:41] <sbalneav> ok
[03:41] <ogra> well
[03:41] <sbalneav> Which do you prefer?
[03:41] <ogra> if i would find why its not starting i'D ficx it
[03:41] <ogra> its not very verbose
[03:41] <sbalneav> I know why.
[03:41] <ogra> tell me
[03:41] <sbalneav> they've literally #if 0'd that part of the flipping code out!
[03:42] <ogra> for port=0 ?
[03:42] <sbalneav> he seems to have done a fairly major re-write of the code, and I'm just hazarding a guess, but looks like he was simply too (lazy, tired) to fix up that part
[03:43] <sbalneav> so it's just broken,and commented out.
[03:43] <ogra> is it broken ?
[03:43] <ogra> did you try ?
[03:43] <sbalneav> yeah
[03:43] <sbalneav> yeah
[03:43] <sbalneav> it needs fixing
[03:43] <ogra> meh
[03:43] <sbalneav> It's certainly within my power to fix: it's not that complicated a program.
[03:43] <ogra> reverting is bad ...
[03:44] <ogra> we'd loose upstream security support
[03:44] <sbalneav> Well, one supposes the idea would be to send it up to upstream
[03:44] <ogra> yeah
[03:44] <sbalneav> and say "look, you borked stuff we needed, here's the fix"
[03:45] <sbalneav> So, should I work on that today?
[03:45] <ogra> if you have an idea about it i'd really appreciate that
[03:45] <sbalneav> Leave it with me.
[03:45] <ogra> i'm around for an upload
[03:46] <ogra> (somehow need to get tribe2 in shape as well)
[03:46] <sbalneav> I've got lots of real life stuff to do, but I'll work on it this afternoon and evening.
[03:46] <sbalneav> Try to have something for you tomorrow
[03:46] <sbalneav> sigh
[03:46] <ogra> dont put pressure on yourself please
[03:46] <sbalneav> We really didn't need this complication :)
[03:47] <ogra> nah, really not
[03:47] <sbalneav> %&%(&^!& upstream :)
[03:47] <ogra> i wouldnt have expected it at all after vagrants praise of wouter ad his improvements the last days
[03:47] <sbalneav> ok, it's just coding.  Got a bit of time before the kids start demanding breakfast, I'll tear into it.
[03:47] <ogra> but to be honest i dont see any improvements
[03:47] <sbalneav> no
[03:48] <ogra> its just complicating it
[03:48] <sbalneav> he's done a ton of stuff to parse a ruddy config file you didn't need
[03:48] <ogra> yeah
[03:48] <ogra> the client has a -persist optin now btw
[03:48] <ogra> undocumented
[03:49] <ogra> it will automatically attempt a reconnect if the connection fails
[03:49] <sbalneav> well, that's sorta useful.
[03:49] <ogra> problem is that unionfs only likes that two or three times ... then i et a bus error
[03:49] <ogra> *get
[03:50] <ogra> else we could work with timeout on the server side and -persist on the client side
[03:50] <ogra> that would give us keepalive from the static nbd-server+
[03:51] <sbalneav> Lets fix it properly.  We need the inetd start for swapping to work right.
[03:51] <sbalneav> i.e. create a file, etc.
[03:54] <ogra> where the heck did you file the bug ? i dont find a bugtracker on sf.net
[03:57] <sbalneav> oh, in launchpad
[03:57] <sbalneav> against nbd-server
[03:57] <ogra> ah. k
[03:57] <ogra> dont care about swapping now ...
[03:57] <ogra> its easier to do modifications for us if we use nbdrootd and nbdswapd
[03:58] <ogra> so i'd like to keep the setup we have ... which means we can keep the file creation in nbdswapd
[04:00] <sbalneav> right
[04:00] <sbalneav> So, we just need to fix nbd-server :)
[04:00] <ogra> yeah
[04:00] <ogra> btw your new greeter is awesome
[04:00] <sbalneav> fixing :)
[04:01] <sbalneav> which, the one that listens to stdin?
[04:01] <ogra> yeah
[04:01] <ogra> i dont understand why the propmt text is so far off though
[04:02] <ogra> you didnt drop any adjustment for it but its not centered
[04:02] <sbalneav> You looked at it?  I don't have anything in ldm yet to talk to it, but I was quite proud of how quickly I managed to get that working
[04:02] <sbalneav> hm
[04:02] <ogra> i wonder if it was just a matter of luck that it fitted in my code
[04:02] <sbalneav> Well, I'll figure it out.
[04:02] <sbalneav> Some guy on #gtk+ gave me exactly what I needed, then it was easy
[04:02] <ogra> its a trivial one liner to add an adjustment ... i just wonder wh it worked before
[04:03] <sbalneav> heh
[04:03] <sbalneav> there's a LOT of things that still confuse me about gtk
[04:03] <ogra> really ?
[04:03] <sbalneav> I spent 15 minutes with a pad of paper drawing boxes, trying to figure out all the vbox, hbox, vbox2, etc.
[04:03] <sbalneav> yeah, I'm leaning fast.
[04:04] <ogra> heh, yeah, thats the hard part about gtk
[04:04] <sbalneav> This is the first time I've ever done any graphics programming.
[04:04] <sbalneav> I'm not a UI guy :)
[04:04] <ogra> but beyond layout stuff i find it very easy
[04:05] <sbalneav> One thing I'm getting by working on Ubuntu is an education :)
[04:05] <ogra> heh
[04:17] <andrew____> need advice on network setup...I'll have a mix of thin clients, Linux clients (fat), and windows clients...how can I get all of these to authenticate against the same userbase and file system?
[04:39] <ogra> sbalneav, seen my bug update ?
[04:39] <sbalneav> no
[04:39] <ogra> seems vagrant already filed it for 2.7
[04:39] <sbalneav> I'll look
[04:40] <ogra> and it showed up accidentially in 2.8
[04:40] <ogra> looks like upstream doesnt like inetd
[04:40] <ogra> grmbl
[04:42] <sbalneav> Upstream's gonna have to deal :)
[04:43] <sbalneav> 'cuz *I* like inetd :)
[04:43] <ogra> heh
[04:43] <ogra> i'd be fine either way ... if nbd-server gets a proper timeout function i'm fine as well
[04:44] <sbalneav> how you gonna solve swap?
[04:44] <ogra> hmm
[04:44] <ogra> right
[04:45] <sbalneav> point, sbalneav :)
[04:45] <ogra> well tere are these new virtualization features ...
[04:45] <sbalneav> lol
[04:45] <ogra> they just miss the file creation
[04:46] <ogra> sigh ... i thought i'd get around doing the lawn ... now the sun comes out
[04:47] <highvoltage> :)
[04:47] <ogra> it did
[04:47] <ogra> the last two days
[04:47] <highvoltage> wow, my prayers can time travel
[04:47] <ogra> heh
[04:52] <sbalneav> ok, gdb's given me some useful info
[04:52] <sbalneav> think I know where to start
[04:52] <sbalneav> I'm gonna go cook breakfast for the kids, I'll be on and off today.
[04:52] <sbalneav> keep you posted.
[04:53] <sbalneav> bye
[07:10] <ogra> grmbl
[07:47] <sbalneav> ogra: Hey, quick question, it's looking like nbd-server's gonna need some major hacking.
[07:47] <sbalneav> but, it would be much easier to pull out the bits we need, and make an nbd-server-inetd
[07:47] <sbalneav> standalone package.
[07:47] <sbalneav> Is this doable/sensible?
[08:15] <stgraber> sbalneav: it would be easier, but not that quick as you'll have to upload it, will be short before Tribe-2
[08:28] <andrew____> need help setting up LDAP...having trouble with some steps in the Ubuntu-provided tutorial
[08:28] <andrew____> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LDAP-Samba_PDC_%28for_Linux_and_Windows%29?highlight=%28ldap%29#head-d4de697d4a73d6fdf483f46974c9c30f4e20f485
[08:29] <stgraber> andrew____: I've set my home LDAP/Samba server long ago (Dapper) using this tutorial, maybe I can help
[08:29] <stgraber> andrew____: what's exactly your problem ?
[08:31] <andrew____> I'm at the "migrating data" section of the tutorial and the ldapadd commands hav been returning errors
[08:31] <andrew____> first it was unhappy with the DN syntax.
[08:32] <andrew____> I removed the double quotes around: ldapadd x -D cn=root,dc=yourdomain,dc=edu -W -f /tmp/base.ldif
[08:32] <stgraber> your double quotes look strange to me : " is the correct ones
[08:32] <andrew____>  ldapadd -x -D "cn=andrew,dc=example,dc=net" -W -f /tmp/group.ldif
[08:33] <andrew____> Enter LDAP Password:
[08:33] <andrew____> adding new entry "cn=root,ou=Group,dc=example,dc=net"
[08:33] <andrew____> ldap_add: No such object (32)
[08:33] <andrew____> Hmmm...this is what I get for copying from the web...
[08:33] <andrew____> let me try that.
[08:34] <stgraber> the ones in the second command you pasted seem to be correct, not the one you pasted before my comment
[08:35] <andrew____> Now, where it says root, I'm substituting the LDAP administrator's username, correct?
[08:37] <andrew____> When I use root, it says "invalid credentials"....when I use "andrew" (root user) it says:
[08:37] <stgraber> yes
[08:37] <andrew____>  adding new entry "cn=root,ou=Group,dc=example,dc=net"
[08:37] <andrew____> ldap_add: No such object (32)
[08:37] <stgraber> that's the LDAP root account, but it can be something different than root
[08:37] <stgraber> it's manager here
[08:38] <andrew____> Ok so I have the correct username, but it seems to not like the "object" which I don't understand enough to troubleshoot.
[08:38] <stgraber> What's your DC ?
[08:39] <stgraber> example.net ? Looks strange to me
[08:39] <andrew____> example.net  is what I'm using.   I'm setting up a test server.
[08:39] <stgraber> ok, is the ou Group created ?
[08:39] <stgraber> otherwise you may have some problem creating a "root" object inside of it
[08:40] <andrew____> I don't know....I've followed all the tutorial steps....how do I create an "ou"
[08:42] <stgraber> ldapadd -x -D "cn=admin-account,dc=example,dc=net" -W -f /tmp/group.ldif
[08:42] <stgraber> is that what you have run ?
[08:42] <stgraber> replacing admin-account by the right value of course
[08:45] <andrew____> this is what I'm running, and getting adding new entry "cn=root,ou=Group,dc=example,dc=net"
[08:45] <andrew____> ldap_add: No such object (32)
[08:45] <andrew____> why is it replacing by admin-account with root? Is this normal?
[08:46] <stgraber> I've put admin-account but it can be whatever you want, simply depends on the one you've put in your openldap config
[08:47] <andrew____> right,  I'm typing "andrew" but in the error it gives back, it says: adding new entry "cn=root,ou=Group,dc=example,dc=net"
[08:47] <andrew____> ldap_add: No such object (32)
[08:48] <stgraber> http://www.openldap.org/faq/data/cache/157.html
[08:48] <stgraber> Looking at google I get that
[08:49] <stgraber> (sorry, the wiki page was completely different when I did my home install, so looking at how it's done here doesn't help me much)
[08:52] <andrew____>  well, doing ldapsearch for the domain isn't working...
[08:53] <andrew____> ldap_sasl_interactive_bind_s: Invalid credentials (49)
[08:53] <andrew____>         additional info: SASL(-13): user not found: no secret in database
[08:56] <stgraber> Seems like you have a problem with your user
[08:56] <andrew____> In one of the .conf files?
[08:57] <stgraber> check the rootdn and rootpw in your /etc/ldap/slapd.conf
[08:58] <andrew____> rootdn "cn=andrew,dc=example,dc=net"
[08:58] <andrew____> rootpw {MD5}i6BhjLzBnwRu1ky1g36bEg==
[09:00] <stgraber> hmm, so : ldapsearch -b 'dc=example,dc=net' -s base '(objectclass=*)' should work ...
[09:00] <andrew____> do I need to be operating in the shell as andrew...I'm logged in at root
[09:01] <andrew____> doesn't work when I'm logged in as andrew either...
[09:04] <stgraber> andrew____: I'm affraid I'm not really able to help you on that one :(
[09:04] <stgraber> you may want to join #ubuntu-server
[09:04] <stgraber> maybe you'll see a LDAP pro there
[09:04] <andrew____> Ok  thanks for your great effort!
[09:04] <stgraber> no problem, sorry it didn't help you much ...
[09:09] <Burgundavia> andrew____: still stuck with ldap?
[09:09] <Burgundavia> lets see if we can get you going
[09:13] <andrew____> Yes, stuck for about a week now.
[09:13] <Burgundavia> so the ldap server is installed and up?
[09:14] <andrew____> yes, I believe so.  How can I easily test?
[09:14] <andrew____> It restarts fine.
[09:14] <andrew____> And slaptest succeeds
[09:14] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:14] <Burgundavia> where are you getting stuck at
[09:14] <Burgundavia> ?
[09:15] <andrew____> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LDAP-Samba_PDC_%28for_Linux_and_Windows%29?highlight=%28ldap%29#head-e21d7c98123fe571e292f75cec4e6ba77d97b8cf
[09:15] <andrew____> migrating data
[09:16] <Burgundavia> do you need samba?
[09:16] <Burgundavia> ie: do you have Windows clients?
[09:17] <Burgundavia> ok, wow, those instructions are somewhat crackish
[09:18] <andrew____> I need samba and yes, I will have windows clients, linux clients, and thin clients
[09:18] <andrew____> this is for a school network
[09:18] <Burgundavia> I assume you used their config files
[09:18] <andrew____> yes, though I changed the root username, dn, etc...
[09:20] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:20] <Burgundavia> first thing
[09:20] <Burgundavia> reinstall ldap
[09:20] <Burgundavia> lets get rid of those config files
[09:20] <Burgundavia> I don't trust any of them
[09:21] <andrew____> OK
[09:21] <Burgundavia> oh geez
[09:22] <andrew____> shall I apt-get remove or use the dpkg approach (pardon my newness...I just started Linux a week ago)?
[09:22] <Burgundavia> apt-get --purge remove
[09:23] <andrew____> done for slapd, is this it?
[09:23] <Burgundavia> it might be simpler to reinstlal
[09:24] <andrew____> reinstall slapd?
[09:26] <Burgundavia> no, reinstall the whole server
[09:26] <Burgundavia> you have a bunch of randomly modified config files that I simply don't trust
[09:26] <Burgundavia> and the instructions on that page don't exactly strike confidence in me
[09:28] <andrew____> Can you point me towards a more trustworthy tutorial?  I just spent a week following various permutations of tutorials and this will be my fourth reinstall of the server...
[09:28] <Burgundavia> honestly, no
[09:28] <Burgundavia> I was just sighing at how bad our tutorials are
[09:29] <Burgundavia> which is a fault I lay partly at my feet, as I didn't work on them
[09:30] <andrew____> Well, I'm eager to get my school on Linux...but this learning curve has definitely tested my endurance...
[09:30] <Burgundavia> you have hit probably one of the hardest bits of Linux
[09:31] <Burgundavia> you have a nasty combination of ldap (which isn't very easy) and samba
[09:31] <Burgundavia> I assume you currently run AD?
[09:31] <andrew____> No,  we currently don't have a school.  It starts in september.
[09:32] <Burgundavia> ahh
[09:32] <andrew____> I'm trying to pursuade them to go open source, but I need a prototype.
[09:33] <Burgundavia> yep
[09:33] <stgraber> the best way to have LDAP working correcty is to really start step by step, starting by installing a clean LDAP server, then move the UNIX auth on it, the once ok, extend the LDAP schema to Samba specifc objects, then make Samba use them
[09:33] <Burgundavia> yep
[09:34] <Burgundavia> exactly my thoughts
[09:34] <andrew____> So far, I've got the thin client working...but I need to know I can do a mix of thin and thick, Linux and windows on the same network
[09:34] <stgraber> following those tutorials which provide obscure scripts doing everything sometime works, but you don't understand what you are doing
[09:34] <stgraber> and then won't be able to update your system or fix an eventual problem
[09:34] <andrew____> I'd love to learn it...
[09:35] <stgraber> andrew____: I'm currently doing that kind of install as a test in a classroom connected to that state/canton network
[09:35] <Burgundavia> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LDAPClientAuthentication
[09:35] <Burgundavia> that is for your Ubuntu clients to auth against
[09:36] <Burgundavia> stgraber: mind fixing up https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenLDAPServer?highlight=%28open%29
[09:36] <Burgundavia> it has been 6 months since I setup my last workplaces ldap server
[09:37] <andrew____> I'm going to log off and reinstall ubuntu server on this machine...will log back on on the trusty laptop....
[09:37] <stgraber> this OpenLDAPServer wiki page was one of the ones I used to set up my local LDAP server
[09:37] <Burgundavia> stgraber: it needs some work
[09:38] <andrupal> Back...formerly andrew____
[09:39] <andrupal> So for a fresh server build, I've been using the ubuntu distro and then installing edubuntu server on top of it...does this make any sense?
[09:39] <Burgundavia> are you comfortable with the commandline?
[09:39] <andrupal> getting more so every day
[09:40] <Burgundavia> then just install ubuntu server
[09:41] <andrupal> I find editing files a bit awkard in commad line
[09:41] <andrupal> Is "vim" the state of the art there?
[09:41] <Burgundavia> basically
[09:41] <Burgundavia> in that case, I would get the ubuntu desktop
[09:42] <stgraber> andrupal: you may also like nano which can be easier to use or even the editor part of mc
[09:42] <stgraber> those two are the ones I use on command line systems
[09:43] <andrupal> nano is a different cmd line text editor?
[09:43] <stgraber> yes
[09:43] <andrupal> Now, as far as the thin client setup, edubuntu seems to make the process much easier...agreed?
[09:44] <Burgundavia> absolutely
[09:45] <Burgundavia> that is pretty much install and go
[09:45] <andrupal> so you recommend ubuntu server, but don't I also need edubuntu server to get thin client functionality?
[09:49] <andrupal> Eventually, I'm also going to want to authenticate a website against LDAP...I'm not barking up the wrong tree, am I?
[09:51] <stgraber> I doubt that having all the services on the same server will be a good idea for a school, but technically you can of course install LDAP/DNS/Apache/... on the same server, that's just no recommended
[09:52] <stgraber> having a website authenticating against LDAP is possible using php-ldap (if it's a php website) or a Apache module (never used it)
[09:52] <stgraber> then using it either as the user DB for the website (php-ldap) or like the directory/file protection mechanism of Apache (http login) (with the apache module)
[09:52] <andrupal> I'd likely put it on a different server...but could I use the same LDAP server for authentication, or mirror the LDAP server on an Apache server?
[09:53] <andrupal> This would be a php site (Drupal)
[09:53] <stgraber> oh, you can of course contact your LDAP server from another so no need to mirror it on the apache server
[09:53] <andrupal> Cool...so this is single sign on for all services, as I hoped.  Now I just need to learn how the hell to do it.
[09:54] <stgraber> I never had to but I'm sure you can auth against LDAP using drupal
[09:54] <andrupal> So I've just reinstalled ubuntu server...now you're advising against adding edubuntu server
[09:55] <stgraber> it's better to have a working terminal server (edubuntu) and then another server acting as domain server (ldap/samba/dns/apache)
[09:55] <Burgundavia> yep
[09:55] <stgraber> having all the users logged on the domain server isn't really a good idea I think :)
[09:55] <Burgundavia> single sign on is easier said than done
[09:55] <stgraber> I wouldn't like having 250 people having shell access to my ldap/samba/dns/apache server
[09:56] <andrupal> I see...for now, can I emulate these both on the same machine, as a test setup?
[09:56] <stgraber> you'll easily have : single login (same login/pass everywhere), single sign on also mean something like kerberos not to have to actually auth on all the services
[09:57] <andrupal> single login is a good start.  I don't want to have to deal with unsynched accounts!  Nitemare.
[09:58] <stgraber> indeed :) nothing worse than having 10th of different user DB :)
[09:59] <andrupal> So I'm not going to install thin client this time around, but I assume you can set up LTSP to auth against LDAP as well...is this a non-standard deal?  Probably not a part of the base distro of edubuntu?
[09:59] <Burgundavia> yes and yes
[09:59] <Burgundavia> although there is work to make that easier
[10:00] <andrupal> I've seen some docs kicking around in the development areas...can't wait!
[10:00] <Burgundavia> I would take a separate computer and install the edubuntu classroom server
[10:01] <Burgundavia> just to see how it is supposed to work and to give you confidence to start playing with LDAP again :)
[10:01] <andrupal> Well, I had this working fine!   I loved it.
[10:01] <LaserJock> anybody seen ogra lately?
[10:02] <Burgundavia> on vacation?
[10:02] <stgraber> LaserJock: last seen : 17:15 UTC
[10:02] <LaserJock> moquist: around?
[10:04] <andrupal> Presently, I don't have access to more than two machines for testing...so I'll have to learn piece by piece., unless I can use a laptop as a thin client.
[10:05] <Burgundavia> you can
[10:06] <Burgundavia> the nic might also network booting or you can use a boot disk/cd
[10:06] <andrupal> But then I'll also need a hub...darn.
[10:07] <Burgundavia> cross over would do it
[10:10] <andrupal> let me check my own comprehension:  LDAP/Samba server needs two NICs, edubuntu classroom server needs two NICs, these are daisy chained together with the thin client?
[10:21] <andrupal> In this config, on which server would something like content filtering take place...since that's what schools are required to do if they want a federal (US) subsidized t1 line?
[10:22] <stgraber> the one connected to the internet
[10:22] <stgraber> personally I'd do that :
[10:22] <stgraber> First server connected to the internet and to the LAN (running DNS/Samba/Apache/LDAP/DHCP)
[10:23] <stgraber> Second server connected to the LAN (can contact the other via its LAN interface) being the Edubuntu terminal server
[10:23] <stgraber> Thin clients connected to the LAN as the Edubuntu server is
[10:24] <stgraber> then as everything as to go through the first server, you install the content filtering proxy on it (privoxy+squid or something like that, doing caching+filtering)
[10:25] <andrupal> So any given classroom can have its own terminal server and still authenticate against LDAP and have student files stored centrally?
[10:25] <stgraber> yes, as any computer on the LAN can contact the two servers
[10:25] <stgraber> but not the Internet
[10:25] <stgraber> everything has to go through the first server
[10:25] <stgraber> on the LAN you can connect your thin, fat and windows client
[10:26] <andrupal> But file storage...that can remain centralized despite multiple terminal servers...
[10:26] <stgraber> Burgundavia: ^ Does this look ok for you ?
[10:26] <stgraber> I'd suggest to store files on the first server
[10:26] <Burgundavia> I have actually never gone past installing LTSP
[10:26] <Burgundavia> and have actually never installed Edubuntu
[10:27] <stgraber> and then access those data from the Terminal Server, Fat clients or Windows clients
[10:27] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: I got it to work in VMware the other day
[10:27] <stgraber> (you can use Samba for that part)
[10:27] <LaserJock> it's actually pretty cool
[10:27] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: get which working?
[10:27] <stgraber> LaserJock: oh yes, VMWare is really great to test that kind of stuff :)
[10:28] <andrupal> Is it preferable to run multiple client servers at the classroom level?  It seems some of the thin client manager could be very useful to the instructor...not so useful locked away in the server room.
[10:28] <stgraber> LaserJock: I've a complete copy of my state/canton network here :) Two Win2003 enterprise, 1 WinXP pro workstation, two thin clients, 1 Edubuntu server and 1 Ubuntu server :)
[10:28] <stgraber> LaserJock: all running on my laptop at the same time :)
[10:29] <stgraber> andrupal: the thin client manager can be launched from any of the thin clients IIRC
[10:29] <stgraber> andrupal: you can have the Edubuntu server in a rack in the server room and then manage your network from any of the thin clients
[10:29] <stgraber> andrupal: all depends on the kind of hardware you'll have
[10:29] <andrupal> OK...so this is just a matter of giving account privileges to teachers.
[10:29] <stgraber> andrupal: if you have very very fast servers with a lot of RAM, you can have one or two for a school
[10:30] <stgraber> otherwise a per classroom server can be an idea
[10:30] <stgraber> andrupal: yes
[10:30] <andrupal> What is very very fast...we're in the market now...need to make good decisions.
[10:30] <stgraber> andrupal: it's basically putting them into the admin and adm group
[10:30] <stgraber> How many clients will you have ?
[10:31] <andrupal> 45 thin , 15 wireless laptops, 10 or so thick   (the laptops and thick clients will likely be windows)
[10:31] <andrupal> This needs to scale up by roughly that many each year.
[10:33] <stgraber> You'd need something like 5GB of RAM for 45 thin, about the CPU there aren't any amount per client on the wiki
[10:34] <stgraber> but something like a quad-CPU dual-core would be ok I think
[10:34] <stgraber> Burgundavia, LaserJock : One of you know better than I do ?
[10:35] <stgraber> it'll also mainly depends on what you are going to run
[10:35] <Burgundavia> there is a formula somewhere
[10:35] <stgraber> Burgundavia: yes, I just can't find it :)
[10:36] <Burgundavia> http://edubuntu.org/GettingStarted
[10:36] <andrupal> Well, we'll also need to have Windows client access...how complicated does this make things...?
[10:36] <stgraber> I can find for the RAM (100-150)
[10:36] <stgraber> andrupal: what do you mean by Windows client access ?
[10:37] <andrupal> Ability to run windows software...much of ed software is windows only...
[10:37] <stgraber> Burgundavia: that's for RAM, not the CPU :(
[10:37] <Burgundavia> cpu is less important
[10:37] <andrupal> I've seen case studies where LTSP has a windows emulator in it, somehow.
[10:37] <stgraber> andrupal: ok, at this point you have two possiblity : first one try using wine (good luck), second have an external Windows Terminal Server
[10:37] <stgraber> and then access it with rdesktop
[10:38] <stgraber> (that's what I did here, as wine wasn't working ... but I don't know how expensive the Windows 2003 licence can be ...)
[10:38] <andrupal> Apparently you pay per client!
[10:38] <stgraber> argh
[10:39] <stgraber> well, you basically have only one client don't you ? :) that's the Edubuntu server :)
[10:39] <andrupal> Perhaps we can make that case...
[10:40] <stgraber> you'll first want to test using wine, see how much RAM/CPU it takes and if it works as with Windows
[10:40] <stgraber> if wine isn't an option, you'll need to investigate the Terminal Server option
[10:40] <andrupal> So it sounds like we'll need 3 servers:  DNS,  Client, and Windows...  plus another backup?
[10:41] <stgraber> yes
[10:41] <stgraber> expensive ones being the Edubuntu and the Windows ones
[10:41] <stgraber> DNS/LDAP/Apache/... ones isn't that ressource expensive and so does the backup one (except the HDD/Tapes)
[10:41] <andrupal> Well, if we're hosting a php website on the DNS server, is that resource intensive?
[10:42] <stgraber> nope
[10:42] <stgraber> I've a Samba/LDAP/Apache/MySQL/DNS/Backup/Print server on a 1Ghz server here :)
[10:43] <andrupal> OK  ubuntu server and desktop have finally installed.   Now to LDAP...
[10:43] <stgraber> only the DB part (MySQL/PostgreSQL) can be resource intensive, but that depends on the number of people connecting to the website, if that's an internal website that means a maximum of 70 people on it
[10:44] <stgraber> and usually the problem with the DB server is more the amount of RAM than the CPU
[10:44] <andrupal> This is a school portal...somewhat query intensive though not super high usage...
[10:44] <stgraber> if you put 1GB you won't have any problem (and I think that's the minimum you can have now :))
[10:45] <andrupal> this is quite helpful!
[10:45] <stgraber> my dedicated server running the Ubuntu ISO testing website + 5 other website is running with only 256MB of ram :)
[10:45] <stgraber> and it also does SSL
[10:45] <stgraber> so you'll be ok with 1GB I think
[10:46] <andrupal> so I'd like to install LDAP now, I think...apt-get install slapd?
[10:47] <stgraber> Burgundavia: ^ now it's your turn :)
[10:47] <andrupal> stgraber, you've been a huge help...thanks for chatting it up!
[10:48] <stgraber> andrupal: no problem, I agree that we should post more about real install done in different school, what they used, how they installed, ...
[10:48] <stgraber> andrupal: that way people won't have to do all the research again and again
[10:48] <andrupal> We'd be happy to serve as a case study.  High profile magnet school in NYC...affiliate with Columbia.  Could be a good plug for y'all...stay tuned.
[10:50] <stgraber> argh, seems like Burgundavia is busy :)
[10:50] <stgraber> ok, so install slapd
[10:51] <stgraber> I'm booting a virtual Ubuntu server
[10:53] <stgraber> andrupal: ^
[10:53] <andrupal> yes
[10:53] <andrupal> slapd installed
[10:55] <stgraber> ok, so it asked for an admin password ?
[10:55] <andrupal> yes, I gave it
[10:57] <stgraber> ok, now lets open /etc/ldap/slapd.conf
[10:58] <stgraber> update the dc (you should have to change it at 3 different places)
[10:59] <andrupal> anything should work, right...I'm using dc=example dc=net
[10:59] <stgraber> ok
[10:59] <stgraber> the default LDAP root account is "admin"
[11:00] <andrupal> yes...shall I change this to my account name, as I am root?  or do I misunderstrand
[11:00] <stgraber> no, it's just that the admin login for LDAP will be cn=admin,dc=example,dc=net
[11:00] <stgraber> that's no problem
[11:00] <stgraber> now check your /etc/ldap/ldap.conf
[11:01] <stgraber> it should point to your LDAP server (localhost or something like that)
[11:01] <stgraber> (here it doesn't as I've this VM configured as LDAP client for the state network)
[11:01] <andrupal> how to check?  slaptest?
[11:01] <andrupal> slaptest succeeds
[11:03] <stgraber> it doesn't work correctly here, give me minute to investigate
[11:04] <ogra_> sbalneav, yes, thats fine, if its a patch to the current nbd-server package and we can split out a separate binary from the nbd sourecpackage
[11:04] <ogra_> if ts a rewrite and duplicates the source thats a no go
[11:05] <andrupal> stgraber I will need to return to this later in evening or tomorrow...when are you likely around?
[11:06] <stgraber> andrupal: tomorrow during the whole day (I'm UTC+2) so from 8 UTC to 2UTC
[11:07] <stgraber> hmm, more 12 UTC to 2 UTC
[11:07] <stgraber> argh nope :)
[11:07] <stgraber> some timezone problem tonight ...
[11:07] <stgraber> 8 UTC to 22 UTC
[11:07] <stgraber> :)
[11:07] <andrupal> OK...well I'll be back tomorrow.  Hope to see you.  Again, many thankx.
[11:08] <stgraber> np, see you


[03:00] <barry_> #startmeeting
[03:00]  * barry_ kicks mootbot
[03:00] <barry_> hi everybody and welcome to this week's asiapac meeting.  who's here today?
[03:00]  * barry_ knows tim's not here
[03:01] <barry_> jml, mwhudson ping?
[03:03]  * barry_ slinks off
[03:03] <barry_> #endmeeting
[03:03] <sinzui> Ha


[00:07] <ubuntu-mate> hi
[00:08] <ubuntu-mate> KDE
[00:26] <swift110> hey all
[02:05] <qwererfrrthyty>  Should I write here https://ubuntu-mate.community/ or irc? It's simpler irc, but I need to find someplace more visible. I don't know English and will be a video file.
[03:20] <hdaugherty> channel-list
[03:29] <nemo> hdaugherty: /msg alis help
[03:29] <nemo> ☺
[04:08] <qwererfrrthyty> This behavior is shown by the example virtual machine Host Windows 32, Guest Ubuntu Mate 17.10 64 btrfs. I think, but not sure, when there is not enough memory, I get the unresponsive operating system. I get this behavior on a real the same computer Ubuntu Mate 17.10 64 btrfs (memory 4Gb). More than 10 minutes I'm not waiting - I turn off the power to the computer (restarting PC). This behavior I see and lubuntu 17.10 in
[04:08] <qwererfrrthyty> virtual machine. It is bad that memory is not freed from the memory used, but it continues to be written to the paging file. Most of the memory used the browser. When the Guest freezes I can see how intensively the HDD begins to read in Host. This information needs to be retested on an average PC (not the fastest computer) with no SSD like mine. https://www.dropbox.com/s/clhe4v15m8pq2f9/Untitled%202017-12-02%2005-51-29_Xv
[04:08] <qwererfrrthyty> id.avi?dl=0
[04:13] <qwererfrrthyty> guest mem 2048
[04:16] <qwererfrrthyty> not paging file in Guest. I use swap  linux partition in Guest.
[04:16] <qwererfrrthyty> and real pc swap partition
[04:44] <qwererfrrthyty> if need download file, video is displayed in the browser to dropbox the player in a worse quality than on the PC in the player, but not alwas
[04:46] <qwererfrrthyty> if need, download file, video is displayed in the browser to dropbox the player in a worse quality than on the PC in the player, but not alwas
[04:51] <qwererfrrthyty> alvas=always
[04:51] <qwererfrrthyty> alwas=always
[05:19] <qwererfrrthyty> i use zram
[10:23] <stonty> R there any Chinese in it?
[11:45] <Some_Other_Guy> i boot up today and i got this message saying something along the lines of "your system has a problem", giving 2 options: cancel, or report problem
[11:45] <Some_Other_Guy> may i know what the problem is? lol
[12:00] <alkisg> Some_Other_Guy: when programs crash, you see that dialog, and you have an option to report it if you want
[12:00] <alkisg> Clicking Report will tell you the details
[12:01] <Some_Other_Guy> alkisg, ah, i assumed reporting the problem was to the developers
[12:01] <alkisg> No no that's for users
[20:55] <ubuntu-mate> hi
[22:57] <zproc> hi
[23:02] <zproc> Is it ok to ask about Mate 16.04.2 for RPi 3 here? i wonder if i can have the wifi connected at boot, instead of it connecting at login... Can i do something like provide a wpa_supplicant conf file... and... ?
[23:03] <zproc> "at login" -> i mean" when logging in with lightdm
[23:04] <zproc> There's a network manager i should tell to not do its job also i guess if i configure directly wpa_supplicant?
[23:20] <ali1234> you can configure that through the gui
[23:21] <ali1234> log in, open the wifi settings, somewhere you should find a setting that says "allow other users to use this connection"
[23:21] <ali1234> enable it, and it will connect at boot time
[23:21] <ali1234> it's in the general tab and it's "all users may connect to this network"
[23:21] <ali1234> zproc: ^
[23:23] <ali1234> that should work on any ubuntu system, rpi or PC does not matter
[23:40] <zproc> ali1234 oh, ok cool i'm going to take a look i didn't know, thank you
[23:42] <zproc> ok found the option, i will test :)


[05:12] <crimsun> asac: all 3 tests [from mozilla.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker] pass for your ppa packages of firefox-3.0/xulrunner-1.9 3.0.5/<IP_ADDRESS> on hardy, intrepid, and jaunty
[05:12] <crimsun> asac: (and thanks for mentioning via identi.ca; i wouldn't have noticed otherwise!)
[07:35] <crimsun> asac: all 3 tests [from mozilla.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker] pass for your ppa packages of firefox on dapper
[07:36] <crimsun> i think i'm going to crash for the night, tho'; have to get up for work in a few hours
[07:36] <crimsun> (if needed, i'll install gutsy in a vm later this evening)
[09:07] <gnomefreak> X is still broken :(
[09:08] <crimsun> asac: (last one!) all 3 tests [from mozilla.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker] pass for your ppa packages of firefox on gutsy
[09:10] <gnomefreak> asac: the agenda for last meeting is finished right? items are: Jaunty(we covered alreaady), Universe software security support, actions from last meeting, review or auto extension scripts?
[09:15] <Jazzva> good morning :)
[09:53] <gnomefreak> Jazzva: good morning
[10:39] <asac> crimsun: thanks!!!
[10:46] <Jazzva> asac, for foxyproxy... in-source patch vs. establishing a patch system?
[10:46] <asac> Jazzva: what patch?
[10:46] <Jazzva> regarding yesterday's problem with changing settingsDir... i just changed getDefaultPath not to read settingsDir at all, but to get it from profile dir.
[10:47] <asac> ah right
[10:47] <asac> Jazzva: will this patch stay around forever?
[10:47] <Jazzva> asac: for trying to write settings file in /usr/lib/firefox/
[10:47] <Jazzva> I'm planning to start a topic on upstream's forum to check with them... I don't see a reason why they wouldn't apply this
[10:48] <asac> Jazzva: yeah. your decision then. with or without patchsystem should work
[10:49] <Jazzva> though, their getDefaultPath had commented code for getting a settings dir as a profile dir, and then they just added this code. maybe they assumed that the extension will be installed in a profile dir, so that might be the reason why they removed the preferred way.
[11:04] <Jazzva> asac, I left a comment on the topic for this bug. I'll submit it now as in-source patch, in case he decides not to use it, we can establish a patch system...
[11:07] <asac> Jazzva: fine.
[11:08] <asac> Jazzva: ready for upload then ;)?
[11:08] <Jazzva> no, there is a new version, I'll update it :)
[11:08] <Jazzva> (it still has the same bug, though)
[11:45] <asac> mozilla bug 404314
[11:45] <asac> fta2: do you have assitive technologies enabled on gnome?
[11:46] <asac> (i think thats the reason why we see this more frequently now)
[11:49] <Jazzva> asac: done, I proposed a merge of ~jazzva/f-e/foxyproxy.ubuntu to ~ubuntu-dev
[11:49] <Jazzva> asac: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jazzva/firefox-extensions/foxyproxy.ubuntu/+merge/2395
[11:51] <asac> Jazzva: heh ... you didnt use a "topic" name for the branch :)
[11:51] <Jazzva> yeeeah... I know. I used just this, as it was available...
[11:51] <asac> Jazzva: i dont mind ... just that i cannot say: bzr branch yourbranch; bzr branch ubuntu-devbranch
[11:51] <asac> without renaming ;)
[11:51] <asac> (which is what reminds me of it all the time;)
[11:52] <Jazzva> why can't you use that?
[11:52] <Jazzva> ah...
[11:52] <Jazzva> foxyproxy.ubuntu in both cases
[11:52] <asac> Jazzva: oh ... we could use the builddeb.conf too there ;)
[11:52] <asac> (when we touch it)
[11:52] <Jazzva> bzr branch ubuntu-devbranch, cd ubuntu-devbranch, bzr merge my-branch?
[11:52] <asac> yep
[11:53] <asac> Jazzva: usually branches exept the mainline branch are not .ubuntu branches, but are dedicated for a topic
[11:53] <asac> like 1.5.6 ;)
[11:53] <asac> but well
[11:53] <Jazzva> I wrote little helper for that new part of bzr, it's most probable that I will forgot how to use it. It would be good to put it on wiki somewhere :)
[11:53] <asac> yep
[11:54] <asac> we should put it https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Extensions/Bzr
[11:54] <Jazzva> I'll just put it as it is now, and mark that part of doc as WIP
[11:56] <asac> Jazzva: yes. just push whatever you have now .... we can streamline stuff later
[11:57] <Jazzva> yep
[11:57] <asac> Jazzva: oh i think we should use "merge" mode
[11:57] <asac> merge = True
[11:57] <Jazzva> in .bzr-builddeb/default.conf
[11:58] <asac> yep
[11:58] <asac> i add that to for foxyproxy during the merge now
[11:59] <Jazzva> ok
[12:02] <asac> Jazzva: done
[12:02] <asac> now you can just do bzr bd
[12:02] <asac> (even without --merge)
[12:03] <Jazzva> wee :)
[12:05] <asac> Jazzva: hmm ... does the Bzr document make any sense?
[12:07] <Jazzva> apart from some typos, yes...
[12:08] <asac> Jazzva: i think we should definitly use a med-xpi-pack extensions there
[12:08] <asac> and maybe add a second paragraph showing that this can also be done if you hav other sources
[12:09] <asac> #
[12:09] <asac> bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/firefox-extensions/firebug.ubuntu firebug.upstream
[12:09] <asac> #
[12:09] <asac> thats rather confusing
[12:09] <asac> and will make folks believe that .ubuntu is used as new .upstream ;)
[12:10] <asac> a bit tricky to describe how to extract upstream tree from .ubuntu one
[12:10] <asac> if we have .bzr-builddeb/default.conf that should work
[12:11] <Jazzva> asac: saving my changes. refresh the Bzr page
[12:11]  * asac  looks
[12:11] <Jazzva> it's probably confusing :)
[12:12] <Jazzva> and we should add examples. for example, we could add an example bzr log entry, and to bold the revision number, etc...
[12:13] <asac> Jazzva: i think we should move the "how to spot upstream revision in bzr log" to a separate section
[12:13] <Jazzva> mhm
[12:13] <Jazzva> brb, making coffee
[12:13] <asac> its basically just a bootstrap thing, isnt it?
[12:13] <Jazzva> bootstrap thing?
[12:13] <asac> i mean once everything uses the default.conf you look there to get the upstream revision
[12:13] <asac> then you commit on top of the extracted upstream tree and then you use the latest commit id
[12:14] <asac> which should be easy to spot
[12:14] <asac> e.g.
[12:14] <asac> 1. bzr branch .ubuntu
[12:14] <gnomefreak> wtf
[12:14] <asac> 2. cat .ubuntu/.bzr-builddeb/default.conf | grep revision -> revisionid
[12:14] <asac> bzr branch -r revisionid .ubuntu .upstream
[12:14] <asac> cd .upstream
[12:14] <asac> commit new upstream revision
[12:15] <asac> bzr log --show-ids | head | grep revision-id
[12:15] <asac> cd ../.ubuntu
[12:15] <asac> bzr merge ../.upstream
[12:15] <asac> update .bzr-builddeb/default.conf for new revision-id
[12:15] <asac> bzr commit -m "* mergfe new upstream revision"
[12:15] <asac> ;)
[12:16] <asac> gnomefreak: whats up?
[12:16] <asac> trashed your system?
[12:16] <gnomefreak> tbird crashing
[12:16] <gnomefreak> cant send email without crash
[12:20] <gnomefreak> asac: latest tbird-3 in fta's PPA work for you?
[12:20] <asac> gnomefreak: i dont upgrade regularly on fta archive
[12:21] <gnomefreak> ah
[12:21] <asac> it usually brings too much new libs and stuff i dont want to add just now
[12:21] <asac> gnomefreak: is that beta1?
[12:21] <Jazzva> asac, I agree... that sounds ok
[12:21] <gnomefreak> asac: 3.0~b1+nobinonly2-0ubuntu1~fta1
[12:22] <gnomefreak> fta2: 3.0~b1+nobinonly2-0ubuntu1~fta1 is crashing whne trying to send email (is this true for you as well?
[12:22] <asac> Jazzva: maybe we should write a script med-xpi-new-upstream
[12:22] <gnomefreak> )*
[12:22] <asac> that does everything except the final commit
[12:23] <asac> adding to mt TODO :)
[12:23] <Jazzva> asac: sounds ok, but shouldn't it be more general? nspluginwrapper could work with it too...
[12:23] <asac> Jazzva: yeah.
[12:24] <Jazzva> so it couls be med-new-upstream... but maybe other packages could use it too... bzr-new-upstream? incorporate it in bzr? :)
[12:24] <asac> something like med-new-upstream ... which then looks whether its an .xpi or a .tarball ?
[12:24] <Jazzva> (ok... the last may be too much)
[12:24] <asac> Jazzva: i think we should work on it in med- and if we have something that is useful in general migrate that to bzr-devtools or something
[12:24] <Jazzva> so, it should also fetch new upstream .xpi or .tarball?
[12:24] <asac> unfortunatley james_w seems to be on holiday
[12:25] <asac> Jazzva: hmm ...thats difficult. we have the scripts from volans that we should finally try to make use of
[12:25] <gnomefreak> i was just gonna ask that about tarball or .xpi however it should be more general than a tarball since we use say svn it comes as a dir not a tarball
[12:25] <Jazzva> hmm... maybe it could use debian/watch to get new upstream...
[12:25] <Jazzva> asac: that would be good...
[12:26] <asac> in genral i like debian/watch
[12:26] <asac> we could also say that get-orig-source is called
[12:26] <gnomefreak> noticed with bzr you have to finish /debian before tarball can be made
[12:26] <asac> but what for such packages that are based on bzr synchs?
[12:27] <gnomefreak> this is fucking annoying E: read, still have 5018251 to read but none left
[12:27] <gnomefreak> E: The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened.
[12:27] <gnomefreak> while using upgrade and dist-upgrade
[12:28] <gnomefreak> ok smoke than try to downgrade tbird without losing the emails already downloaded
[12:29] <Jazzva> asac: huh? isn't the procedure branch upstream and ubuntu, fetch new source file (be it xpi or tarball), unpack, copy to upstream, commit upstream, merge upstream in ubuntu, update default.conf, commit ubuntu, leave the rest to the maintainer?
[12:34] <asac> Jazzva: yes. thats correct
[12:34] <asac> Jazzva: only other variant would be where fetch new source file means, fetching some bzr branch or something
[12:34] <asac> or svn
[12:35] <asac> but well ... thats details
[12:35] <Jazzva> ah... well, that could be added later :)
[12:35] <asac> also ithink we should auto commit ubuntu, but leave that to maintainer
[12:35] <asac> in best case he can just debcommit
[12:35] <asac> in worst case he has to resolve conflicts
[12:35] <asac> we could auto commit if there are no conflicts though
[12:35] <Jazzva> I meant to commit the part after merge of new upstream, and update of .bzr-builddeb/default.conf
[12:36] <Jazzva> and then to leave the rest of changes to the packaging to the maintainer
[12:42] <asac> Jazzva: yeah. i think we should try to commit with UNRELEASED
[12:42] <asac> which of course would fail if there are merge conflicts (which is a good thing)
[12:54] <jtv2> asac: ping
[12:54] <asac> jtv: yes?
[12:54] <jtv> asac: hi
[12:54] <jtv> asac: would you have time to talk about a technical question?
[12:55] <jtv> asac: it's about generating RDF files.
[12:57] <gnomefreak> why UNREALEASED? there isnt really a need to use it than change it after commit just start out using what dch -i uses and change it as you go
[12:58] <gnomefreak> less commits is best IMHO
[13:04] <asac> jtv: dont ask to ask :)
[13:04] <jtv> asac: skype OK?
[13:05] <asac> jtv: nope ... have no skype
[13:05] <jtv> asac: regular phone?
[13:05] <asac> i have that ;)? :)
[13:05] <jtv> asac: my IRC's a bit flaky atm.
[13:06] <asac> feel free to call ... i am a bit flaky in my brain ... but if you dont mind :)
[13:06] <jtv> :)
[13:07] <asac> jtv: use the number in directory
[13:07] <jtv> asac: I was just looking it up...
[13:08] <jtv> asac: (btw the canonical wiki shows a different set of numbers)
[13:09] <gnomefreak> asac: is there an easy way to find out what debugging packages are needed for an app?
[13:13] <gnomefreak> it seems its related to gpg but doesnt make sense since my key and password is goo
[13:13] <gnomefreak> d
[13:13] <asac> jtv: you were suddenly gone
[13:13] <jtv> asac: I heard very loud noise for a while
[13:13] <jtv> asac: retrying now
[13:14] <asac> jtv: hmm ... somehow i got cut off
[13:14] <asac> jtv: try the mobile then again :)
[13:14]  * jtv goes back to directory
[13:31] <gnomefreak> i'm not so sure we should be closing master bugs just because of no activity. since master bugs are there to collect dups and to be fixed
[13:38] <gnomefreak> fuck tbird
[13:48] <gnomefreak> it is gpg related and my key worked in tbird until today i havent checked email in a few days so i might have been broken than
[13:58] <gnomefreak> i doubt its thunderbird seems signing a file fails due to password not being entered when you type it
[13:59] <gnomefreak> its nto *-agent
[14:07] <gnomefreak> its not tbird its pinentry-gtk2. testing *-qt works
[14:13] <gnomefreak> well guess not since tbird is failing with *-qt installed instead of *-gtk2 so im gonna guess that enigmail uses *-gtk2
[14:18] <gnomefreak> im betting enigmail cant use *-qt
[14:22] <asac> debian bug 505565
[14:25] <gnomefreak> asac: do you have the iceeasel-firegpg debian bug handy?
[14:25] <gnomefreak> or the failed merge.
[14:26] <asac> gnomefreak: not sure what you mean
[14:26] <gnomefreak> if you plan on dropping the name iceweasel please let me know why the merge matters
[14:27] <gnomefreak> it than turns into my package without all the deps and updated to recent version. im not updating to latest since its all win fixes with like one all fix
[14:27] <gnomefreak> latest == 0.6.3 i have 0.6.2
[15:19] <gnomefreak> im gone for a while
[15:36] <asac> hmm ... i think gnomefreak got something wrong
[15:37] <asac> i asked him to merge the upstream bzr branch
[15:37] <asac> and not copy files over
[16:20] <asac> hmm .. i cannot clean changes for subtrees in hg :(
[16:20] <asac> stupid thing
[16:21] <asac> so now i do ... hg diff subtree/ | patch -p0 -R
[16:21] <asac> dumb
[16:31] <asac> @time
[16:34] <fta2> stevel, i distributed the stickers, all gone in 5 seconds ;)
[16:34] <stevel> fta2: wow! those went fast.
[16:35] <asac> oh ... where were my stickers/t-shirts?
[16:35] <asac> :)
[16:35] <asac> jk
[16:35] <asac> going to christmas market now
[16:35] <asac> cu later
[16:35] <stevel> asac: i didn't get you a t-shirt?
[16:35] <stevel> damn, i brought a whole bag full of them
[16:36] <fta2> asac, i thought you took some too. strange
[16:49] <[reed]> asac: did you use build1?
[16:49] <[reed]> heh
[16:49] <[reed]> we shipped build2
[17:38] <reed> asac: ping?
[17:38] <reed> fta: ping, too
[18:12] <stevel> ooh. multicast ping
[18:38] <jcastro> did someone take notes on what was discussed wrt. songbird at UDS?
[18:38] <jcastro> I don't think it was a session just a break out room
[18:58] <fta> jcastro, most of the discussion happened between stevel and asac while i was in a session :( I arrived near the end.
[18:58] <fta> reed, pong
[18:58] <reed> fta: what build did you all ship for 3.0.5
[18:58] <reed> ?
[18:58] <reed> build1 or build2?
[18:58] <fta> reed, donno, asac did it by itself
[18:59] <fta> reed, did the source change between build1 and build2 ?
[18:59] <gavin> I think reed means "what tag did you use"
[18:59] <gavin> yes, it did
[18:59] <fta> let me check if he documented it..
[19:00] <fta>   New upstream security/stability update (v3.0.5 aka FIREFOX_3_0_5_BUILD1)
[19:00] <fta> so it's build1
[19:00] <gavin> :(
[19:01] <fta> we can do another round. what were the changes?
[19:01] <jdstrand> asac mentioned to me that it was windows specific
[19:02] <jdstrand> and that the tested binaries were fine for us
[19:02] <fta> gavin, reed: ^^
[19:02] <reed> jdstrand: no
[19:02] <reed> jdstrand: you're vulnerable
[19:03] <reed> the issue Mozilla had is win32-only
[19:03] <reed> oh
[19:03] <reed> Firefox 3.0.4
[19:03] <reed> 3.0.5
[19:03] <reed> gavin: did we do build2 for 3.0.5 or just <IP_ADDRESS>?
[19:03] <reed> build1 might be fine for 3.0.5
[19:03] <gavin> I don't know
[19:03] <reed> fta: do you all still do Fx2?
[19:04] <gavin> ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/3.0.5-candidates/
[19:04] <fta> not me, but sure, asac still maintains it
[19:04] <gavin> only <IP_ADDRESS>
[19:05] <fta> hold on, checking
[19:06] <fta> well, not sure. it's badly documented.
[19:08] <stevel> jcastro: i think asac had said he would check with the archive admins to see how they felt about a xulrunner app going into universe w/ its own private xulrunner
[19:08] <jcastro> ah ok, so there's like an active list of things that need to happen on our side?
[19:08] <reed> stevel: are you all actively working on upstreaming your changes?
[19:09] <stevel> reed: yeah. we've gotten 2 committed in the past month... one more is on checkin-needed
[19:09] <stevel> 456164
[19:09] <stevel> it's slow going though
[19:11] <fta> reed, you're slow going accepting patches into xul.
[19:12] <reed> e
[19:12] <reed> eh
[19:12] <reed> depends on the patch and reviewer
[19:12] <reed> if something is going slow, let me know
[19:12] <reed> I have magical get-things-reviewed-and-landed-quicker powers.
[19:12] <stevel> too bad you don't have magical clean-up-this-patch-update-it-for-tip-and-make-it-less-songbird-specific powers
[19:13] <stevel> i could use some of those
[19:16] <reed> stevel: ;)
[19:19] <fta> my point is, mozilla should be more receptive to xul-only patches. They should help improving patches instead of rejecting/ignoring them.
[19:22] <gavin> what patches were rejected/ignored?
[19:23] <fta> most of the songbird/tomtom
[19:23] <gavin> do you have bug #s?
[19:23] <fta>  /instantbird/openkomodo/...
[19:23] <fta> maybe they need improvement but moz should definitely help here.
[19:24] <fta> xul is supposed to be a framework/sdk for others to build applications on top of it, not just firefox
[19:25] <gavin> the idea that "mozilla" should bear the burden of making a web platform more than the people actually using the platform is rather odd to me
[19:25] <gavin> it sounds like you're asking for a free lunch
[19:26] <gavin> if people are not being cooperative and constructive in accepting patches, that's one thing
[19:26] <gavin> but saying that it should be mozilla's responsibility to fix everything that is wrong with xulrunner and no one elses is another
[19:28] <fta> i meant the latter.
[19:28] <gavin> do you mean the former?
[19:31] <gavin> saying that xulrunner consumers should dictate how mozilla project participants spend their time without sharing some of the burden is a hard position to defend
[19:31] <fta> well, i mean, a lot of patches trying to fix or improve xul are in bugzilla, receiving almost no attention. if the submitter has no time or skill to make the patch perfect, no one is coming to the rescue.
[19:32] <gavin> if the person who cares about the patch doesn't have the time to submit it, why would someone else?
[19:32] <gavin> other people's time isn't free
[19:32] <fta> but forget it, we'll never agree. i guess this means that we're doomed to have a dozen of patched xul downstream forever.
[19:32] <gavin> I'm all for reducing barriers to entry and making the whole process easier - if I can help out in any way with that, I'd be glad to
[19:33] <gavin> send me a list of bug #s where patches were ignored
[19:34] <gavin> but you seem to have the expectation that other people will solve your problems just because you decided to use Mozilla, and that kind of attitude doesn't seem very constructive to me
[19:35] <stevel> sooo... not to try and ride the fence or anything, but there are truths to both arguments
[19:35] <fta> most are not my problems, at least not directly as i'm only downstream
[19:35] <stevel> my personal experience with the 3 XULRunner patches i've worked on has actually been quite good
[19:35] <gavin> sure, I didn't necessarily mean you specifically
[19:35] <stevel> but i've heard negative experiences from other developers too
[19:36]  * reed thinks of the XULRunner talk at Whistler that he missed
[19:36]  * reed chuckles
[19:36] <stevel> i've heard (so feel free to write this off as hearsay) of people attaching bugs that admittedly need more work, and just getting r-'d with no comments or suggestions as to how to fix 'em
[19:36] <gavin> stevel: send me bug #s
[19:36] <stevel> i don't have concrete bug #'s to back that claim up though
[19:37] <stevel> like i said, feel free to write it off as hearsay :) my experience has been quite good
[19:37] <stevel> mossop gave me good feedback on my patches, and i was able to revise and submit updated patches that were r+'d and then commited
[19:37] <gavin> I'm sure you can understand that it might be a bit frustrating to hear about all these problems people are having, but never actually seeing any evidence :)
[19:37] <stevel> gavin: if i have such an experience, i'll let you and reed know.
[19:37] <reed> please do
[19:38] <stevel> gavin: definitely... i totally understand.  i dislike general venting without any concrete actionable next step too... just wanted to say that i've heard the same things fta has heard.
[19:39] <stevel> but i also wanted to say i haven't experienced them ;-)
[19:39] <stevel-fence-sit> aww. need longer nicks
[19:40] <gavin> :)
[19:41] <gavin> fwiw, I'm not trying to claim that mozilla's patch submission process is perfect
[19:41] <gavin> I'm not delusional :)
[19:41] <fta> mozilla bug 357052
[19:42] <fta> mozilla bug 393966
[19:42] <gavin> those are tracking bugs
[19:43] <gavin> are there bugs being tracked off either of those that have patches that are being ignored?
[19:44] <stevel> i suppose this is the closest songbird one i can think of
[19:44] <stevel> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?query_format=specific&order=relevance+desc&bug_status=__open__&id=304048
[19:44] <stevel> r+'d, sr+'d - committed, but then backed out for performance regression
[19:45] <stevel> nobody from songbird has looked at it since bent in comment #54 though
[19:45] <stevel> so it's arguably being ignored from both sides
[19:45]  * stevel shrugs
[19:46] <gavin> yeah, that one just doesn't have an assignee...
[19:46] <gavin> looks like there are ideas for what to investigate in the last comment, though
[19:46] <stevel> yeah
[21:07] <fta> reed, FIREFOX_2_0_0_20_BUILD1 ? already?
[21:07] <reed> Firefox <IP_ADDRESS> on win32 was a dud
[21:32] <armin76> wtf
[21:32] <armin76> reed: only win?
[21:32] <gavin> yeah
[21:32] <reed> armin76: the wrong build was pushed out
[21:32] <reed> :/
[21:32] <armin76> heh, k, thanks
[21:32] <armin76> blame asac :)
[22:02] <asac> reed: any other issues except that win32 is BUILD1?
[22:02] <asac> security team said that they saw some confusion in this channel ;)
[22:03] <asac> reed: we shipped _RELEASE tag
[22:03] <asac> for final
[22:03] <asac> made 24-36h before the final release shipped
[22:03] <asac> reed: did 3.0.5 actually have a BUILD2? thought only <IP_ADDRESS> had that
[22:04] <reed> no
[22:04] <reed> only fx2
[22:07] <asac> reed: do you know whether win32 really shipped BUILD1 tag or if _RELEASE tag wasnt pushed forward?
[22:07] <reed> the former
[22:58] <fta> asac, did you re-add my build-system into the last xul 1.9 in intrepid?
[23:00] <fta> or was it hardy?
[23:07] <asac> fta: why would i readd it?
[23:07] <asac> the build system isnt really created at source creation time from what i know
[23:07] <asac> but at build time
[23:08] <asac> fta: if you really need the build system in the hardy xul, we can add it to the .hardy branch ... if its unintrusive
[23:11] <fta> it's created in post-patches
[23:12] <asac> please move that to packaging
[23:12] <asac> and not tarball
[23:12] <fta> eh?
[23:12] <asac> fta: post-patches == in cd bs?
[23:12] <fta> it's shipped inside xul-dev
[23:13] <asac> fta: then why would i remove it? i mean i just use the branches we have ... done
[23:14] <asac> you asked whether i re-added it? i dont understand that question ;)
[23:15] <fta> we already discussed about that, remember?
[23:16] <asac> i remember something ... my first thought it was something with the tarballs
[23:16] <fta> nope.
[23:16] <asac> hmm ... then i dont know any details
[23:17] <asac> if its really a packaging issue, then i dont understand why we didnt add that to the current packages
[23:17] <asac> )
[23:18] <asac> if you gave me a patch and i forgot to treview/ land it then i am sorry
[23:55] <asac> Jazzva: why is bugmail extension not in med-xpi format?
[23:56] <Jazzva> med-xpi format?
[23:56] <asac> Jazzva: yes, like med-xpi-unpack
[23:56] <Jazzva> I think it is... although, chrome wasn't in a jar file.
[23:57] <Jazzva> It works with default build command (med-xpi-pack)
[23:57] <asac> Jazzva: hmm ... ok so xpi.mk is really smart enough to zip that up properly
[23:57] <asac> ?
[23:57] <Jazzva> yep
[23:57] <asac> astonishing ;) ... didint know we were so smart
[23:57] <asac> is xpi.mk looking at manifest file?
[23:57] <Jazzva> actually, med-xpi-pack is :).
[23:58] <Jazzva> xpi.mk calls med-xpi-pack as default build, if none is defined in debian/rules
[23:58] <asac> Jazzva: right. but how does med-xpi-pack know that?
[23:58] <asac> it doesnt look at manifest at least
[23:58] <Jazzva> by the format of directory in chrome/
[23:59] <Jazzva> if there's blabla.jar! directory, it will pack it in a jar
[23:59] <asac> ah
[23:59] <asac> ok
[23:59] <asac> it alwasys does: zip -q -r $START_DIR/$XPIFILE * -x debian/\* temp-*/\*;
[23:59] <asac> in case there was .jar it will produce the .jar files in temp- ... so that will be right
[23:59] <asac> otherwise its a copy


[05:28] <mac_v> DanRabbit: ping
[11:57]  * MacSlow -> lunch
[15:30] <natewiebe13> is this the spot to discuss xsplash?
[15:31] <DanRabbit> if anybody is awake ;)
[15:31]  * DanRabbit --> Skooool
[15:32] <natewiebe13> alright.. i noticed something with xsplash.. if you run xsplash from terminal, once it is finished, it fades into the desktop.. when it runs during boot.. it abruptly shows the desktop.. is it just a bug, or is it planned to be abrupt?
[15:35] <natewiebe13> anyone?
[15:42] <hyperair> natewiebe13: when run in a terminal it still ends abruptly for me
[15:42] <hyperair> perhaps your window manager is donig something funky with it?
[15:42] <natewiebe13> hyperair: not for me.. it crossfades into the desktop very nicely
[15:43] <hyperair> hmm
[15:43] <hyperair> i see
[15:43] <hyperair> try setting -x
[15:43] <hyperair> -x 2 or something
[15:43] <natewiebe13> what does -x change?
[15:44] <hyperair> timeout
[15:44] <hyperair> wait. it seems that when i specify --timeout, it dies halfway no matter what
[15:44] <hyperair> abruptly
[15:44] <natewiebe13> i did "sudo xsplash -x 2" and it still faded out
[15:44] <hyperair> hmm
[15:44] <hyperair> strange
[15:44] <hyperair> it doesn't for me
[15:45] <hyperair> instead, no matter what timeout i give it, it still ends abruptly after the first throb
[15:45] <natewiebe13> i modified mine to look like mrdoob's iteration 3, but i dont think that should make a difference
[15:47] <hyperair> hmm strange. sometimes it fades out
[15:47] <hyperair> sometimes it ends abruptly
[15:47] <hyperair> very strange
[15:48] <natewiebe13> im thinking of filing a bug report
[15:52] <hyperair> go ahead
[16:22] <natewiebe13> hyperair: Bug #435324
[16:22] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 435324 in xsplash "xsplash should crossfade during boot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435324
[16:23] <natewiebe13> hyperair: i also included a video with what i saw in terms of crossfading
[16:24] <hyperair> hmm


[00:29] <RandomGuyOnIrc> I have been trying to get @reboot working for cron, and I can't get it working. I have followed the instructions here: https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-execute-cron-job-after-system-reboot/
[00:30] <RandomGuyOnIrc> I added @reboot echo rebooted >> /home/otis/reboot.log via crontab -e
[00:31] <RandomGuyOnIrc> I ran update-rc.d cron defaults
[00:31] <RandomGuyOnIrc> but when I reboot, there is nothing in reboot.log
[00:31] <RandomGuyOnIrc> does anyone know how to fix this?
[00:32] <RandomGuyOnIrc> maybe this is it https://askubuntu.com/questions/335615/does-ubuntu-support-reboot-in-crontab#549646
[00:32] <RandomGuyOnIrc> I am missing the user field
[00:34] <RandomGuyOnIrc> nope, that does not work either
[01:04] <RandomGuyOnIrc> I figured it out
[01:04] <RandomGuyOnIrc> it is running the crontab before the disk is mounted
[01:05] <RandomGuyOnIrc> if I do "@reboot sleep 10; /home/otis/reboot.sh" then it works
[01:05] <RandomGuyOnIrc> wow, that was a lot of work
[02:19] <altaro> hi guys, I'm trying to setup a new laptop with a 4k screen and the I cant get the DPI scaling working
[02:19] <altaro> I tried setting the QT environment variables and no joy
[02:20] <altaro> Also the encryption password screen is really small as well, anyone know of an easy fix
[10:10] <Thedarkb1-X40> LXQt murders my machine.
[12:03] <Maybe> Hello, could you tell me how to set a single click to open files in Lubuntu 16.04?
[12:06] <redwolf> Maybe, look: https://dt.azadicdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/pcm2.png
[12:07] <Maybe> thank you redwolf . I go and see
[12:16] <Maybe> I looked at the page yu sent me, redwolf , but in my preferences menu I don't have "open files with single click"
[12:16] <Maybe> *you
[12:23] <redwolf> ODD
[12:23] <redwolf> *odd
[12:23] <redwolf> let me search for it
[12:26] <redwolf> Maybe, don't you have something like this? https://share.riseup.net/#u-7i3s5Xeo2oP5SXnZ_T9A
[12:28] <Thedarkb-X40> How can I turn off my screen from the command line/
[12:28] <redwolf> define "turn off"
[12:28] <Maybe> redwolf: how could I get that page on my Lubuntu 16.04? I see that it is a kind of file manager, but tat the moment I cannot see it...
[12:29] <redwolf> that's on your file manager's preferences option
[12:29] <Thedarkb-X40> I mean disable the screen.
[12:29] <Thedarkb-X40> Switch it off.
[12:30] <redwolf> I think you can't do that, Thedarkb-X40
[12:30] <Thedarkb-X40> Fair enough.
[12:31] <Thedarkb-X40> You can set it to turn off the screen after X minutes in the power manager though.
[12:31] <redwolf> yes, but that's managed by the login manager (kind of screensaver, like phones)
[12:31] <redwolf> you can set it to "go black" at an amount of time
[12:49] <Maybe> redwolf: I solved the problem I could not find the file manager pcmanfm. After I found it, I went to edit/preferences and found the window you indicated me. So I could tick the case "open files with a single click" and it works.
[12:49] <Maybe> thank you so much
[12:49] <redwolf> I'm glad to hear that :) you're welcome
[12:53] <Maybe> Thank you again. Have a nice day (^__^)
[12:53] <redwolf> you too! :)
[19:47] <dman_> just tried to install lubuntu 17.10 on what use to be a windows xp netbook msi with atom prosseser works great of usb went to intall on drive and now when boots off drive only about 1 quarter of the screen is there with the rest some garbled looking text anybody any help  ??? thanks
[20:22] <lxleuser__> Hello.  I have a broken boot on LXLE 14.04.5, that responds to the Lubuntu 14.04.5 live CD.  Need to recover the encrypted home.  Using sudo encrypt-recover-private I can enter password and unlock the files now.  Nothing else has worked so far to do this. The QUESTION IS... how to get the files from the HDD onto an external HDD, without using Nautilus.  PCManfm is the filemanager on the live...
[20:22] <lxleuser__> ...cd.  Does anybody here have any advice?
[20:23] <lxleuser__> Note:  the external HD does not show up in the menu.
[20:24] <zleap> Sorry I can't help with that
[20:25] <lxleuser__> thanks
 http://www.lxle.net/forums/


[09:58] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
[11:38] <icey> ahoy
[12:10] <lazyPower> \o


[07:15] <ailo> I'm trying to learn how to upload a kernel using kteam-tools, specifically build-mkppa
[07:15] <ailo> What I'm wondering about is patches
[07:15] <ailo> I want to patch config files mostly, but how will build-mkppa know where to apply them?
[07:16] <ailo> Butteee, I should probably read more about patching anyway
[07:18] <ailo> I guess I need to know how to create the patches and what to think about when putting them in <kernel>-ppa/patches/
[07:27] <ailo> I guess a diff between two complete sources would do then..
[23:01] <ailo> Hi, I'm looking for some tips on uploading a customized kernel to PPA
[23:01] <ailo> I want to edit the configs, and change the ABI
[23:02] <ailo> I'm able to upload fine, but the build fails because of the edited configs
[23:02] <ailo> Here's a failed build log https://launchpadlibrarian.net/109017347/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-i386.linux_3.5.0-2.3-lowlatency_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[23:02] <ailo> I think what I'm stuck at is making changes to the source, and have the changes buildable
[23:16] <ailo> I would like to add that I know very little about Debian packaging
[23:16] <ailo> But I'm only really interested in being able to test different configs for the kernel at the moment, so I'd rather skip learning for now


[20:04] <arraybolt3> Hey guys. Fallen from #ubuntu-community-team would like for us to get together some updated 22.04 screenshots for ubuntu.com/desktop/flavours. Just letting everyone know. I'll be making the screenshot and then sending it for review probably pretty soon here.
[23:59] <arraybolt3> !ops | bitcoin scam coming through Telegram
 @teward001 @tsimonq2 @kc2bez...


[13:55] <x-fak> hi
[13:56] <x-fak> i want to enable WakeOnLan on my Arm ubuntu
[13:56] <x-fak> is it working?


[07:21] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[07:23] <zmoylan-pi> o/
[07:25] <brobostigon> o/
[11:09] <daftykins> drat, walk into someone on the high street here in town and then gain more work! nowhere is safe! :D
[11:27] <zmoylan-pi> did you learn nothing from airplane?! :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4CizzE-zZo
[14:21] <daftykins> KrimZon_2: psst connection problems :)
[22:46]  * zmoylan-pi puts on the longest day... dun dun dun dummmmmmm.....


[01:43] <mpontillo> f1gjam: ah, is it working now? looks good?
[01:45] <f1gjam> mpontillo, nope
[01:45] <f1gjam> i just blew away the isntall doing it again
[01:46] <f1gjam> i think you were right about change the IP of the MAAS server
[01:46] <mpontillo> f1gjam: ok, the screenshot seemed to show it properly finding the MAAS data source
[01:47] <f1gjam> yes
[01:47] <f1gjam> but it doesnt do anything
[01:47] <f1gjam> just sits there for 40 mins
[01:47] <f1gjam> and then MAaS server marks as failed :(
[01:52] <mpontillo> f1gjam: really weird. are you able to get a packet capture of the deployment?
[01:52] <f1gjam> how would i do that
[01:52] <f1gjam> wireshark?
[01:52] <f1gjam> or soethjing?
[01:52] <mpontillo> f1gjam: I use a command like: tcpdump -s 0 'port not 22' -n -w deployment.pcap
[01:53] <mpontillo> on the rack controller
[01:53] <mpontillo> the 'port not 22' is so it doesn't capture your SSH traffic.
[01:53] <f1gjam> so isnbt the rack controller and maas server one box now
[01:53] <mpontillo> that will write a packet capture to 'deployment.pcap'. you'd probably need to be root or add "sudo" first.
[01:54] <mpontillo> f1gjam: yeah, by default it's the same machine but you can put the rack/cluster controller (we renamed it from cluster to rack in MAAS 2.0) on a separate machine if you want
[01:54] <f1gjam> ok so its all on one machine right now
[01:54] <f1gjam> give me two secs
[01:54] <f1gjam> im just waiting for it to install again
[01:54] <f1gjam> shouldnt take long
[01:54] <mpontillo> f1gjam: that's fine. if you get a pcap it'll unfortunately be pretty big, as you'll capture the entire image download (~200 MB or so I think)
[01:55] <mpontillo> f1gjam: but it may help to debug...
[01:55] <mpontillo> f1gjam: you can filter by http and see if the deployed node is attempting to contact MAAS. just to verify, which version of MAAS do you have installed?
[01:55] <f1gjam> no issues with that i can put it on dropbox
[01:56] <mpontillo> cool
[01:56] <mpontillo> I might not be able to dig into it until next week though
[01:56] <f1gjam> sure
[01:56] <f1gjam> where are you ?? in the world i mean
[01:56] <mpontillo> california
[01:56] <f1gjam> h wow
[01:56] <f1gjam> i go there all the time
[01:56] <f1gjam> Newark
[01:56] <f1gjam> well once a quarter for work
[01:56] <f1gjam> :)
[01:57] <mpontillo> ah cool, never been there
[01:57] <f1gjam> well its near SF
[01:57] <mpontillo> oh, yeah, well I've been in the area. I live near Sacramento but I used to work in SF a couple days per week
[01:58] <f1gjam> yeah sacremento is far from there
[01:58] <f1gjam> i havent had a chacne to go there yet
[01:58] <f1gjam> been LA
[01:58] <f1gjam> and to
[01:58] <mpontillo> too hot. I don't recommend it =)
[01:58] <mpontillo> cheaper housing though
[01:58] <f1gjam> ssualito
[01:59] <f1gjam> yes very hot in LA
[01:59] <f1gjam> but it was a tick in the box
[02:00]  * mpontillo -> afk (good luck with MAAS, sorry it isn't going more smoothly!)
[02:00] <f1gjam> ill cathch you next week :)
[03:08] <f1gjam> mpontillo, i know your gone, but i wanted to let you know it WORKED!!!!
[03:09] <f1gjam> its 4am here in UK so im going to sleep :) satisfied. thanks for your help. I will create updated docs which might be helpful to post somewhere, if you can recommended where that is. thanks again
[11:59] <f1gjam> mpontillo, feature request - https://bugs.launchpad.net/maas/+bug/1596287
[12:22] <mup> Bug #1596287 opened: Feature request Installation tracking via MaaS <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1596287>
[15:28] <f1gjam> mpontillo, almost worked, landscape installed failed. I am now going to try out Ubuntu 16.04 with MaaS 2.0 - since i have the install working im guessing its better to try the latest version
[16:04] <f1gjam> mpontillo, just incase - this is the network layout - https://screencloud.net/v/jsk7
[17:46] <f1gjam> updated screenshot: https://screencloud.net/v/v5ms
[18:06] <mpontillo> f1gjam: as far as I know, landscape does not work with MAAS 2.0 yet =( ... the API in MAAS is different.
[18:06] <mpontillo> f1gjam: what was the issue with landscape?
[18:17] <f1gjam> let me paste the error
[18:19] <f1gjam> http://paste.ubuntu.com/17924168/
[18:19] <f1gjam> and
[18:19] <f1gjam> sorry thats the error
[18:19] <f1gjam> ive now installed 16.04
[18:19] <f1gjam> and trying to get it to install autopilot
[18:19] <f1gjam> going to kick off install now
[18:20] <f1gjam> might go abck to 14.04
[18:20] <f1gjam> especially if you are saying landscape doesnt work with 2.0
[18:21] <f1gjam> mpontillo, do you work for canonical?
[18:29] <f1gjam> quick question, is there a way to point ubuntu cd installer to a http://kickstart file which will just pass all the parameters needed for install? secondly is there an auto generated kickstart file located on the box installed manually?
[18:58] <mpontillo> f1gjam: yes, I work for Canonical on the MAAS team. ;-) not sure about kickstart (thought that was a RH thing), MAAS used to support a way to install Ubuntu using the Debian installer, but it's much slower
[18:59] <f1gjam> well, is there anyway to do a similar thing to kickstart :)
[19:00] <f1gjam> the reason i asked if you worked for canonical was because i wanted to ask about the docs, which all seem to be out of date. It takes too much effort to install everything correctly
[19:44] <mpontillo> f1gjam: yeah we are planning on improving the docs for the next release... sorry for the inconvenience
[19:47] <f1gjam> mpontillo, its cool, if i have this working, i can help :)
[19:47] <mpontillo> f1gjam: are you installing Ubuntu to metal or a VM? If a VM, I would use the cloud image and the local cloud-init provider
[19:47] <f1gjam> metal
[19:47] <f1gjam> I have 3 * HP110 G6 severs and 2 * Lenovo TS140 Servers
[19:47] <f1gjam> all of them have 3 network cards
[19:48] <f1gjam> 1 * 64GB USB and 1 * 250GB or greater HDD
[19:48] <mpontillo> f1gjam: thanks; if you find errors in the docs and want to send us some minor patches, I'm sure it would be appreciated.
[19:48] <f1gjam> well I am going to create a new one from scratch
[19:49] <f1gjam> There are things which need more explanation
[19:49] <f1gjam> but that would be easier to discuss on a skype call
[19:49] <f1gjam> especially the networking pieces
[19:50] <f1gjam> ok - so just finishing off setting up 14.04 with MaaS for like the 20th time :)
[19:52] <mpontillo> f1gjam: thanks for any feedback you can provide!
[19:52] <f1gjam> no worries :)
[19:52] <f1gjam> next time im out in California
[19:53] <f1gjam> we should meet up :)
[19:58] <mpontillo> Let me know - I'm often busy with family so no guarantees.
[19:59] <f1gjam> yeah no worries, it was supposed to be in July
[19:59] <f1gjam> but not 100%
[20:26] <f1gjam> would be great if you could choose which hdd to commission on, however you have to commission for it to detect the drives then recommission
[20:49] <mpontillo> f1gjam: commissioning does not touch your drive at all. It boots a read only image over iscsi with an overlayfs
[20:53] <f1gjam> well, how do i get it to use USB - you only get to choose after you have done commissioning
[20:53] <f1gjam> then when you - recommission it shows as the usb drive with the parition
[21:29] <mpontillo> f1gjam: you can configure the storage layout any way you want after it commissions. MAAS resets the storage layout to default upon recommissioning (though it can optionally retain it)
[21:30] <mpontillo> f1gjam: in other words, delete the filesystem and configure the volumes/partitions to your liking after you commission.
[21:30] <f1gjam> ah i see
[21:30] <f1gjam> well i just wanted it to use USB whole
[21:30] <f1gjam> and not touch the slow hd
[21:30] <f1gjam> as i want that for ceph
[21:32] <mpontillo> f1gjam: you should be able to configure it to do that.
[21:32] <f1gjam> yeah, as you said after commisson
[21:32] <f1gjam> that makes sense. The way i was thinking it worked wasnt the case
[21:33] <f1gjam> need some more clarification :)
[21:33] <f1gjam> ill try and write up a list of stuff
[21:33] <f1gjam> and ping it over
[21:33] <f1gjam> tht might be better
[21:33] <f1gjam> im really good at making things idiot proofish
[21:37] <mpontillo> f1gjam: thanks!
[21:37]  * mpontillo -> afk
[23:24] <ccit-spence> Is it ok to use MAAS within a vCenter / vSphere setup?