[05:03] <Myrtti> aw yisss, new socks have been dispatched
[06:59] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> Just in case anyone uses TB, Lightning & CalDAV I have just discovered that you must change the URL of your calendars in Lightning: https://developers.google.com/google-apps/calendar/caldav/v2/guide#connecting_to_googles_caldav_server
[07:55] <Myrtti> awwwwwww
[07:55] <Myrtti> I was told "no XPS 13 for yooo"
[07:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> Fascinating stuff about Valve: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24205497
[07:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oh wow - I'm not a gamer but *this* is very surprising: http://gamingonlinux.com/articles/how-does-left-4-dead-2-perform-on-ubuntu-1304-compared-to-windows-8.2457
[08:03] <nigelb> 47
[08:03] <nigelb> (gah)
[08:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> 53
[08:03] <MartijnVdS> 329
[08:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> Mornington Crescent!
[08:06] <directhex> numberwang!
[08:06] <MartijnVdS> let's rotate the board!
[08:15] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:19] <mungbean> interesting. doctors surgery is on the phone to discuss a post she wrote on a mums facebook page
[08:19]  * popey wonders why his printer doesn't default to "reverse, collate" when printing multiple page documents
[08:19] <MartijnVdS> popey: what does it default to?
[08:19] <popey> neither
[08:19] <popey> so you end up with everything in the wrong order
[08:20] <popey> i.e. face up, last page on top
[08:20] <MartijnVdS> popey: you should be able to set the defaults for that in the system-config-printer settings thingy
[08:20] <popey> sure
[08:20] <popey> but it should be default for multi-page docs
[08:21] <MartijnVdS> is yours an inkjet printer?
[08:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> File a bug
[08:21] <popey> yes
[08:21] <MartijnVdS> I'd agree with TheOpenSourcerer then, file a bug on the PPD
[08:21] <popey> ok, good, consensus ☻
[08:22] <popey> not sure the ppd is right
[08:22] <popey> maybe on cups itself
[08:22] <MartijnVdS> popey: cups knows all it knows about the printer from the ppd
[08:22] <AlanBell> not all printers put the paper face up in the output tray
[08:22] <popey> true
[08:22] <MartijnVdS> popey: you should be able to find a copy of /etc/cups/ppd/yourprinter.ppd in /usr/share/ppd somewhere
[08:23] <MartijnVdS> hmm
[08:23] <MartijnVdS> maybe they're installed on demand these days
[08:24] <MartijnVdS> the PPD is probably downloaded as needed from openprinting, unless the printer is HP?
[08:25] <popey> yeah, HP
[08:25] <MartijnVdS> I'd file the bug on cups. I can't find where/how PPDs are created/retrieved.
[08:26]  * popey adds to to-do
[08:26] <MartijnVdS> maybe hplip then
[08:28] <AlanBell> anyone understand the fedora/redhat merger thing?
[08:28] <popey> the what?
[08:28] <AlanBell> ah, hang on
[08:28] <popey> http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2003-September/msg00137.html
[08:28] <popey> looks like a piss take
[08:28] <AlanBell> yeah, I failed to spot the year
[08:29] <popey> also, 10 years ☻
[08:29] <AlanBell> I fail
[08:32] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Punctuation Day! :-D
[08:32] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: @&(*!$(&&!$&^&@
[08:32] <JamesTait> MartijnVdS, you were waiting for that, weren't you? :-P
[08:32] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: maybe..
[08:33] <mungbean> ))
[08:33] <mungbean> didn't like to see those brackets hanging
[08:34] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: nah, it was valid Perl code before
[08:39] <Myrtti> huh
[08:39] <Myrtti> google+ is confusing
[08:39] <MooDoo> why?
[08:40] <Myrtti> editing a post turns the reference to a person into numbers?
[08:40] <Myrtti> *squint*
[08:40] <MartijnVdS> probably their account id, maybe they deleted their account?
[08:41] <popey> i think G+ is a bit broken today
[08:43] <Myrtti> what I don't also like is that the notificiations don't seem to change the title anymore
[08:43] <Myrtti> so if I get notifications, I don't notice it from the tab anymore
[08:57] <directhex> spotify.
[08:58] <bigcalm> Is wonderful?
[08:59] <directhex> it's the first ~confirmed part of the steamos "We’re working with many of the media services you know and love. Soon we will begin bringing them online, allowing you to access your favorite music and video with Steam and SteamOS." feature
[09:01] <bigcalm> Oh
[09:01] <mungbean> video?
[09:01] <bigcalm> Using the unofficial official 'Linux Preview'?
[09:01] <mungbean> is steamos just gonna turn into a media centre?
[09:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> It could do to the home/living room tech what Android has done to mobile.
[09:03] <mungbean> wireless streaming to various rooms
[09:03] <popey> i suspect the spotify will be the web based one
[09:03] <mungbean> of games and video
[09:03] <popey> not the fat client
[09:04] <mungbean> i'd liek to fast forward 2-3 years and see what will happen
[09:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> Giving the OS away "potentially" offers device makers a platform similar the way Andriod is used. Lots of innovation possible in the home without having to re-invent the wheel for an OS...
[09:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> Of course there are lots of unknowns right now but if Valve get this right it could be very disruptive.
[09:06] <MooDoo> love the link you posted about their work ethic TheOpenSourcerer very interesting....no managers
[09:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - was interesting.
[09:07] <directhex> popey, there's a load of spotify-related functions built into the beta steam client's libsteam
[09:07] <MooDoo> loved reading the handbook :) lo
[09:07] <popey> ah of course, they can use the libs
[09:08] <directhex> http://marlamin.com/u/2013-09-22_15-43-29_13421753.png
[09:08] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, in the short term, i think the most "at risk" competition is things like Ouya, depending on price point
[09:09] <directhex> android home consoles with ARM, or steamos home consoles with x86...
[09:09] <MooDoo> what's steamos going to be based on?  won't it have to be some windows variant if it wants to run all the games or am I missing something?
[09:10]  * directhex grumbles about NOBODY KNOWING HOW TO READ
[09:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> It's Linux
[09:10] <shauno> looks like 12.04.2 so far
[09:10] <directhex> steamos is a linux system, probably a debbuntu derivative given current data
[09:10] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: so it's going to limited to not that many games then?
[09:10]  * directhex grumbles about NOBODY KNOWING HOW TO READ again
[09:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS/
[09:10] <MooDoo> ah ok thanks
[09:10] <directhex> MooDoo, linux-only games, OR can play windows games if a windows-based pc is booted on the same network
[09:10] <MooDoo> directhex: stop grumbling ;)
[09:11] <directhex> and apparently AAA games on linux are being announced "in the coming weeks"
[09:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> "With SteamOS, “openness” means that the hardware industry can iterate in  the living room at a much faster pace than they’ve been able to.  Content creators can connect directly to their customers. Users can  alter or replace any part of the software or hardware they want."
[09:12] <MooDoo> AAA games?    they premum titles
[09:12] <shauno> it's a bit more of an incentive for content providers to get their ducks in a row too
[09:12] <directhex> MooDoo, AAA is an industry term for "games with an expensive advertising budget"
[09:12] <directhex> MooDoo, which typically means "games we spent a lot of money on, so we are funding them to do well"
[09:13] <directhex> if you see a TV advert and a bus advert for a game, it's AAA
[09:14] <directhex> the term has leaked a bit and is used by non-industry people to mean "a really well-polished game", but this is a frequent correlation, not the actual meaning
[09:15] <directhex> the idea being, game shops have limited shelf space, so they only want to stock games that will sell well. more ads = sell better, so industry magazine adverts are targeted at shops - "our game has an AAA £20m advertising budget across cinema, TV, and print"
[09:16] <directhex> many excellent games are not AAA, and many AAA games are terrible - but they're always the "big name" games everyone knows about. the grand theft autos, etc
[09:20] <MooDoo> so hopefully that's bioshock infinitethen
[09:21] <directhex> MooDoo, that sort of game. although i deeply deeply doubt it at this point.
[09:21] <MooDoo> ah well lol
[09:21] <directhex> MooDoo, it is reasonable to speculate about which wealthy publisher is on board (only the well-off publishers can afford AAA advertising budgets)
[09:22] <mungbean> all wealthy publishers should be investing 10% in risky but potentially explosive markets
[09:22] <mungbean> i don't even think steamos is risky
[09:22] <directhex> MooDoo, i think 2K are unlikely, as they *mostly* don't do their own mac ports, especially of the bioshock series. they sell the rights to make a port to third parties (aspyr media, feral interactive), who do the port themselves & sell through their own networks (i.e. not steam)
[09:22] <MooDoo> I think unless they get all titles working on it, it's just going to be a glorified media server which there are plenty of them already
[09:23] <directhex> a publisher without in-house mac ports is not a good bet for a producer of steamos ports, imho
[09:23] <popey> I need to learn the basics of git/github
[09:24] <AlanBell> github has good tutorials
[09:24] <popey> I just need to submit a few lines of change to an existing project
[09:24] <directhex> i think koch media (deep silver) is on board, but i don't know how far they'll go
[09:25] <directhex> i.e. metro last light is coming, but is only one game. can they port saint's row 4, or is there too much legacy windows-only tech in that engine?
[09:26] <mungbean> i wish this actually happened http://imgur.com/gallery/Y3dfB5l
[09:26] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning brobostigon
[09:28] <brobostigon> morning TheOpenSourcerer
[09:38] <mungbean> always more productive working from home
[09:40] <directhex> WFH is hard.
[09:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> It is when the kids are at home.
[09:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> And the wife for that matter
[09:42] <directhex> or generally. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabin_fever
[09:42] <mungbean> oh yeah, wife is out this morning
[09:42] <mungbean> will be different later
[09:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh: http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/innovate/developers/minecraft-map-britain.html
[09:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> Think my kids will be interested in this. ^--^
[09:45] <directhex> the baby gave the ps3 remote a swim. do i buy a replacement, or just put up with using a joypad for navigating blu-rays?
[09:46] <MartijnVdS> directhex: how often do you do it?
[09:46] <MartijnVdS> I mean, if you use it once a month, don't bother buying a new remote
[09:47] <mungbean> directhex: what's cheaper, ps3 remote or blue ray player?
[09:48] <mungbean> you don't play games on it then?
[09:48] <directhex> um, £20 versus more than £20?
[09:48] <directhex> and yes, i play games with it, but a joypad is a terrible input mechanism for many tasks
[09:49] <mungbean> ah, i misunderstood, there's a ps3 remote control dooberie
[09:49] <mungbean> i had one for the ps2 but didn't really work for me
[09:49] <mungbean> had to press buttons too hard
[09:49] <MartijnVdS> I have a "converter box" for my Logitech Harmony
[09:50] <MartijnVdS> Harmony (IR) -> Box (IR) -> PS3 (BT)
[09:50] <mungbean> i've got a multifunction remote that i've never used cos it drinks batteries
[09:52] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: i have that minecraft map on my home server ☻
[09:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> Now why does that not surprise me in the slightest popey?
[09:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> Have just mailed that link to my kids - no doubt I will be recruited later to get in on their server...
[09:56] <ali1234> i take it that isn't to scale
[09:56] <MooDoo> o/ minecraft :)
[09:56] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/2013-09-24_10.55.53.png
[09:56] <popey> cowes, isle of wight
[09:57] <mungbean> mincecraft is still $20
[09:57] <ali1234> i only paid $15 for it
[09:57] <MooDoo> my son is just getting into it :)  I've set up a feed the beast server for him :)
[09:57] <mungbean> thought they were gonna make it free at some point
[09:57] <mungbean> acording to an AMA i read
[09:57] <ali1234> no.
[09:57] <ali1234> they are making it more expensive over time
[09:58] <mungbean> sux
[09:59] <mungbean> what about the rpi minecraft?
[09:59] <ali1234> yeah that is free
[09:59] <MartijnVdS> pinecraft!
[09:59] <mungbean> whats the difference between rpi and full fat MC?
[09:59] <Laney> mmm picraft
[09:59] <Laney> chicken and leek please
[09:59] <directhex> supported world size & complexity
[10:00] <ali1234> minecraft is still way too flat
[10:01] <directhex> it's cut down from the smartphone version
[10:01] <ali1234> lol
[10:01] <ali1234> the smartphone version is a tiny world tho
[10:01] <directhex> since the pi is a cut down smartphone...
[10:02] <directhex> "Minecraft Pi Edition is very similar to Pocket Edition in many ways. Like Pocket Edition, there are still barrier walls, the player skin is always the default skin, but you can change this by replacing the char.png photo in the games files, and the title screen and the world selection screen were the same until Minecraft Pocket Edition updated to 0.7.0. There are also Cyan Flowers like in Pocket Edition. So far there is only Creative mode
[10:02] <directhex>  available. The player has various blocks and items only seen in Pocket Edition, like, The Nether Reactor Core, and the Stone Cutter.
[10:02] <directhex> The player has the ability to sneak, but not sprint. Currently, there is no mob spawning, even though the player starts with an Iron Sword in hand. The Bow is also available, but when used, the player will hold the Bow back infinitely until the player selects another item or logs off."
[10:03] <ali1234> is there PvP?
[10:03] <ali1234> because that would be funny to start the kids out with swords and nothing to kill but each other
[10:03] <ali1234> in a supposedly educational game
[10:05] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/2013-09-24_11.04.05.png farnborough
[10:05] <mungbean> i thought i read something about it being educational
[10:05] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:05] <ali1234> ok by my reckoning it's 25:1 scale
[10:06] <popey> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/preview#!q=farnborough&data=!1m4!1m3!1d49175!2d-0.7366553!3d51.2903499!4m10!1m9!4m8!1m3!1d790997!2d-1.3433106!3d51.0448291!3m2!1i1871!2i946!4f13.1
[10:06] <popey> looks about right
[10:06] <ali1234> anyone seen that game that turns google earth data into a first person exploration game?
[10:07] <ali1234> in 1:1 scale. and it looks like skyrim quality graphics
[10:07] <ali1234> let me try to find it...
[10:11] <directhex> "everquest next" is basically minecraft with high-end graphics
[10:12] <ali1234> http://www.outerra.com/index.html
[10:12] <ali1234> (not really a game but an engine)
[10:37] <brobostigon> this is weird, in the play store under ingress it says the versio nis 1.35.1, however in the 'whats new' it says the most recent versio nis 1.36.0, and no update option, very weird.
[10:47] <popey> it updates internally doesn't it?
[10:55] <brobostigon> ingress's boot screen says 1.35.1
[10:57] <ali1234> "just because I don't like it, it doesn't mean I will refuse to use it or buy it." - an apple user
[10:57] <ali1234> lol
[11:02] <mungbean> integrity FTW
[11:50] <MartijnVdS> whoa
[11:50] <MartijnVdS> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/nouveau/2013-September/014480.html
[12:13] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: nice!
[12:55] <mungbean> so, my mrs has a generic rant about doctors surgery on facebook, no names mentioned. gets a call from the practice because a doctor had flagged it up with the practice. isn't there some data protection issue there?
[12:56] <mungbean> she didn't identify the practice
[12:56] <popey> how is there?
[12:56] <daftykins> DP doesn't come into it
[12:57] <daftykins> this is why i keep trying to tell my mother not to comment on businesses etc. on facebook
[12:57] <daftykins> she's fallen for that illusion of anonymity =/
[13:03] <mungbean> because how do you make the connection between the person and the particular doctors practice?
[13:03] <mungbean> there are 10s of surgeries in our local area
[13:04] <daftykins> still, i'd call issue with your Mrs before trying to see who on the other side did something wrong
[13:05] <daftykins> bbl
[13:06] <mungbean> its nothing she wouldn't have said in a direct complaint, just intrigued that somebody joined the dots using private patient data
[13:07] <popey> maybe her generic rant wasn't as generic as you think
[13:07] <popey> and people in the industry can connect the dots
[13:10] <mungbean> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944
[13:10] <SuperMatt> I wouldn't be surprised if a GP or whatever looked to see if there was anything interesting on people's facebook profiles
[13:11] <SuperMatt> after all, Dr. House told us everybody lies
[13:11] <SuperMatt> and maybe the GP wanted to check something out
[13:12] <mungbean> it was in a closed group, but yes, i think a GP saw it and wanted to get to the bottom of the story
[13:12] <mungbean> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1dv28W9KFs
[13:12] <mungbean> get excited by these games but too foten they are too boring/hard
[13:12] <Myrtti> maybe it's lupus
[13:12] <mungbean> looking at you il-2
[13:16] <mungbean> $5K to have your voice in the game as a pilot
[13:49] <diddledan> you know what the "ubuntu ecosystem" is missing? movies! we need proprietary ubuntu drm :-p
[13:52] <mgdm> Just use Ogg. Few enough things play that it's basically DRM... </troll>
[13:52] <mungbean> sucks that you can't choose safesearch for youtube videos, but keep comments
[14:02] <mungbean> spooky, checking my google dashboard and i was a member of one group only - some dodgy islamist site that had been banned. not the sort of thing you accidentally click on
[14:09] <diddledan> mungbean: are you planning a jihad against dodgy islamist sites?
[14:09] <diddledan> if not then I'm assuming you're what "the west" is fighting against :-p
[14:09] <mungbean> i'm wondering if i got added to the group
[14:10] <mungbean> i get a lot of misaddressed email
[14:10] <diddledan> "misaddressed" can still be cause for police investigations :-p
[14:11] <diddledan> "so then mr... 'achmed'" .. "no, I'm not mr achmed, it's misaddressed. I'm mr mungbean.. honest guv"
[14:12] <diddledan> osama is still alive and is hiding in mungbean 's cellar :-p
[14:12] <diddledan> hence all the misaddressed mail
[14:14] <mungbean> i didn't even know i had a cellar
[14:18] <diddledan> that's what the bad people _want_ you to think
[14:27] <mungbean> who are the bad people, again?
[14:28] <diddledan> good question.
[14:28] <diddledan> bad invariably refers to those that the establishment doesn't like
[14:29] <diddledan> e.g. the bad people in syria are the rebellious mob
[14:29] <mungbean> "let's arm them all" :)
[14:30] <mungbean> that bin laden fella, he's against the russians, let give him all the guns he needs.
[14:30] <diddledan> the bad people in syria from our perspective is the establishment
[14:31] <mungbean> tbh i haven't followed syria at all, gave up watching news on account of it permanently being depressing and/or talking about politic(ian)s
[14:31] <diddledan> :-)
[14:31] <diddledan> syria has told everyone it has WMDs now (chemical variety) and even showed them off to the UN
[14:58] <diddledan> blocked ear sucks
[15:04] <mungbean> too scared to put olive oil in my ear when it does that
[15:04] <mungbean> WFH def means more irc chat for me..:S
[15:05] <diddledan> I keep forgetting but I've got some of that fancy otex stuff
[15:05] <diddledan> ditto
[15:05] <mungbean> isn't that just saline?
[15:05] <kecskebak> Otex is really just Hydrogen Peroxide.
[15:05] <mungbean> so don't get it on your hair?
[15:05] <kecskebak> White ear hair - very fashionable :)
[15:06] <diddledan> \o/
[15:06] <diddledan> does it make it grow, too :-p
[15:06] <kecskebak> Why, do you want to do a comb-over?
[15:07] <mungbean> http://www.forbes.com/sites/terokuittinen/2013/09/24/nokia-admits-giving-misleading-information-about-elops-compensation/
[15:07] <diddledan> *click*
[15:08] <mungbean> who would be a shareholder in nokia post elop?
[15:11] <Myrtti> well
[15:11] <Myrtti> AFAIK NSN was and is the breadwinner anyway
[15:11] <Myrtti> which is funny because not so long ago it was the moneyhole
[15:12] <Myrtti> you pick is it because mobiles went down, or networks went up
[15:12] <diddledan> NSN?
[15:12] <Myrtti> former Nokia Siemens Networks
[15:12] <diddledan> I don't know all these acronyms
[15:12] <diddledan> aaha
[15:12] <Myrtti> Nokia Solutions and Networks nowadays when Siemens was bought out
[15:13] <diddledan> even systems are undewr pressure from huawei though
[15:13] <Myrtti> sure
[15:14] <diddledan> yey for the british infrastructure being run by communist hardware
[15:14] <Myrtti> but then again Huawei will not be getting big (or any) orders from USA etc.
[15:14] <Myrtti> if I've understood things right
[15:15] <diddledan> I think you're right there
[15:15] <diddledan> though britain seems in entirely the opposite boat
[15:15] <diddledan> large contracts are being handed to huawei for core systems
[15:15] <Myrtti> that's just mad
[15:16] <diddledan> chinaland knows more about our internet and backend infrastructure than the people that run the stuff
[15:17] <mungbean> allegedly
[15:17] <Myrtti> and people still are in a huff because NSN gear and solutions allow law enforcement to get information about people
[15:18] <diddledan> allegedly
[15:18] <Myrtti> of course they can
[15:18] <diddledan> :-p
[15:18] <Myrtti> haven't you seen CSI?
[15:18] <Myrtti> triangulation location etc
[15:18] <diddledan> wait, CSI is reals?
[15:19] <diddledan> are the fancy graphics they use for visualisation real too? :-p
[15:19] <mgdm> I thought the fact people triangulated off cell towers was common knowledge and farily obvious
[15:19] <diddledan> mgdm: if they didn't then the mobile network wouldn't work
[15:19] <Myrtti> it's not even a secret it's possible. People were told here only this week that the elderly should have a mobile phone with them so if they get lost it's easier to find it
[15:19] <Myrtti> them
[15:19] <Myrtti> even
[15:19] <Myrtti> mgdm: so did I
[15:21] <diddledan> did anybody see the CSI where they used "photosynth" from microsoft to recreate a walkthroughable image of a crime scene based on photos downloaded off mobile phones from the time of the murd0r?
[15:22] <mgdm> somewhat related: https://twitter.com/medialab/status/382513201948405760
[15:22] <diddledan> that .. blew .. my .. mind
[15:22] <diddledan> :-p
[15:22] <mgdm> diddledan: I don't watch CSI due to how wrong they are :P (Photosynth is pretty cool though)
[15:23] <diddledan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0suot89qXY4
[15:23] <mungbean> MS get in so many programmes
[15:23] <mungbean> (US ones)
[15:23] <mungbean> as "sponsors"
[15:23] <mungbean> i hate product placement
[15:25] <mungbean> watching under the dome, and i'm saying "ok, enough MS advertising, please get on with the programme". mrs mungbean says, oh i didn't notice
[15:25] <davmor2> mgdm: oh so you watch no tv then, they are all wrong :P
[15:25] <mgdm> davmor2: that's almost true :-) But there are degrees of wrong, and then there's "not even wrong" :)
[15:26] <davmor2> mgdm: :D
[15:26] <diddledan> I call shenanigans :-p
[15:49] <mungbean> made my GPG key password when my child was 2 months old. not a good idea. can't remember it
[15:53] <SuperMatt> keepassx ftw
[15:54] <diddledan> apple keyboards are awesomesauce if you don't mind the non-standard uk layout
[15:54] <diddledan> SuperMatt: I use lastpass
[15:55] <diddledan> although keepass sounds friendlier to my sensibilities as a FOSS advocate
[15:56] <diddledan> FOSS advocate who is currently on an OS X system
[15:56] <mungbean> i use keeppassx
[15:56] <diddledan> full disclosure and all that
[15:56] <mungbean> but lack of sleep prevented me from doing the right thing
[15:56] <diddledan> >.<
[15:57] <diddledan> yeah, a 2month-old would likely cause those symptoms
[16:05] <mungbean> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/advice/10323191/Can-I-install-Windows-XP-on-a-new-PC.html
[16:05] <mungbean> terrible advice
[16:05] <SuperMatt> very very bad advice
[16:06] <mungbean> IT advice columns in the mass media are usually terrible
[16:06] <mungbean> MS says: "Support for Windows XP is ending on April 8, 2014. There's no better time than now to get a new Windows 8 PC"
[16:07] <mungbean> and post a link to buy a PC
[16:10] <diddledan> "your pc won't stop working in april" but it will stop being secure, however who cares about such trivialities as security on a home pc?!
[16:10] <diddledan> </troll?
[16:10] <popey> .. running a 13 year old OS...
[16:11] <SuperMatt> feature request: when changing the desktop background, all apps should fade out so you can see it, then fade back in for a second, or maybe a "quick hide" button which, with a single click, hides all desktop stuff and then shows everything after a couple of seconds
[16:11] <popey> XP wasn't too bad
[16:11] <SuperMatt> 7 is definitely where it's at right now
[16:12] <mungbean> OS with compliant web browsers are where its at
[16:12] <mungbean> fortunately
[16:12] <SuperMatt> hah, very true
[16:12] <mungbean> thanks android
[16:12] <SuperMatt> which is basically anything with the latest firefox
[16:12] <SuperMatt> because firefox is where it's at
[16:13] <diddledan> I'm an IE fanboi
[16:13] <diddledan> IE FTW!!
[16:13] <diddledan> my job is >50% working on IE which means it's by far the most important browser in the world
[16:14] <SuperMatt> I saw an IE video the other day, trying to get people to fall back in love with it. None of the features they showed were either 1) related to IE, or 2) IE only
[16:14] <diddledan> IE6 no more
[16:15] <diddledan> IE6 is totally gonna take over the world
[16:15] <diddledan> IE6 is teh skynets
[16:15] <diddledan> \o/
[16:15] <diddledan> I <3 IE6
[16:16] <diddledan> I *stab stab* <3 IE6
[16:24] <MartijnVdS> IE6? IT BURNS IT BURNS
[16:36] <diddledan> anybody see this yet? http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS/
[16:36] <directhex> diddledan, has anyone *not* seen it yet?
[16:36] <diddledan> I hadn't until about 10 minutes ago :-p
[16:41] <diddledan> so what's tomorrow's announcement gonna be then? a hardware partner or two? or maybe entering the hardware ecosystem themselves?!
[16:44] <directhex> diddledan, tomorrow is definitely talking hardware. i don't know for sure if they'll announce partners or their "own" box, but it'll definitely be announcing some specific details, not just a general "hardware will exist"
[16:49] <popey> see the 4chan thread?
[16:50] <popey> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-y1Q_Ww4nqyw/UkGmqcnTqfI/AAAAAAAAF4s/eHzeuymqVC4/w1549-h802-no/13+-+1
[16:50] <popey> nsfw
[16:50] <popey> (if someone is reading over your shoulder)
[16:54] <Azelphur> that first post sounds stupid
[16:57] <Azelphur> #4 is pretty wrong sounding too
[16:58] <Azelphur> popey: yeeea, that's mostly a load of bull. :)
[17:02] <diddledan> don't you love how 4chaners try to make themselves sound all big and clever by swearing all the time like an official leak would
[17:02] <Azelphur> lol
[17:03] <diddledan> lol @ quit message over on #wordpress: Quit: There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence.
[17:13] <daftykins> what's the cause when a system will just boot to GRUB and sit there without selecting anything? is it almost a boot failure response?
[17:13] <daftykins> it's ruining the user experience for some HTPC setups i have in several places
[17:13] <diddledan> daftykins: I've only ever noticed it after interrupting the previous boot
[17:14] <daftykins> yeah, it didn't come up on my clients TV so i told him to pull the power
[17:14] <diddledan> daftykins: I don't know whether it's intended behaviour or not
[17:14] <daftykins> seems like new behaviour compared with in the past though? this is a 12.10 install *kind of*
[17:15] <diddledan> yeah it seemed to appear (anecdotal!) around the same time the menu got hidden by default
[17:16] <daftykins> hrmm
[17:16] <daftykins> maybe i shall try the main channel too to see if anyone knows why
[17:16] <daftykins> i'd rather it were oblivious to prior failures so the HTPC can continue to operate in an appliance style, of course
[17:18] <daftykins> http://www.freshleafmedia.co.uk/blog/ubuntu-server-12-stuck-at-the-grub-boot-menu-waiting-for-key-press/2013/05/
[17:18] <daftykins> ah-har
[17:22] <AlanBell> daftykins: that really should be a default on the server shouldn't it!
[17:22] <daftykins> AlanBell: server?
[17:22] <daftykins> oh for that guy's setup
[17:22] <daftykins> indeed!
[17:25] <AlanBell> if you are installing Ubuntu Server then you want it to always reliably boot headless to networking + SSH, whatever the problem
[17:25] <daftykins> yip
[17:26] <daftykins> in my case it's an HTPC though, but same intention
[17:26] <daftykins> this could almost be considered a default configuration 'bug
[17:26] <daftykins> '
[17:26] <AlanBell> probably
[17:27] <AlanBell> I think it is a more useful difference than the kernel clock tick speed
[17:28] <jpds> AlanBell / daftykins: GRUB is configured to halt if the kernel failed for whatever reason beforehand.
[17:29] <daftykins> jpds: yeah, we got that. hence the link
[17:29] <daftykins> but that's not really a good choice imo
[17:29] <jpds> Why not?
[17:29] <jpds> What if the default kernel keeps panicking on boot?
[17:30] <daftykins> what if it doesn't :D
[17:30] <jpds> GRUB → kernel → panic → reboot → GRUB → kernel → panic → reboot → ∞
[17:30] <ali1234> whye xactly is that a problem?
[17:30] <daftykins> yep but in which case you know to interact with the system don't you
[17:30] <jpds> daftykins: Then GRUB should never appear.
[17:30] <daftykins> because it's never coming up
[17:31] <daftykins> ali1234: HTPCs i have setup for clients, if the interrupt is booted, end up sat on GRUB waiting for enter to be pressed on the default kernel - it's a bit of a pain :)
[17:31] <AlanBell> picking a different kernel would be a plausible course of action
[17:32] <ali1234> you sell linux HTPCs?
[17:32] <AlanBell> anything without a keyboard that will wait on bootup for a keypress is going to be waiting a long time
[17:33] <ali1234> the sensible thing to do would be to *check for a keyboard*
[17:35] <directhex> press f1 to continue!
[17:35] <daftykins> ali1234: no, not sell
[17:36] <daftykins> but i set up a discless film collection setup for a client with 1,000+ films on DVD and otherwise
[17:36] <Azelphur> Anyone familiar with how to set up chrooted SFTP only accounts?
[17:36] <Azelphur> I'm looking at http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/linux-and-open-source/chroot-users-with-openssh-an-easier-way-to-confine-users-to-their-home-directories/ but worried it might be outdated
[17:36] <Azelphur> if I mess my SSH server up, I loose access to my box (dedicated server that I have no physical access to), so need to get it right.
[17:36] <daftykins> i played with scponly once? didn't go as far as the chroot though
[17:37] <daftykins> test in a VM? :)
[17:37] <Azelphur> ah, I need chroot so they can only access certain areas
[17:37] <Azelphur> maybe
[17:37] <ali1234> Azelphur: chroot has not changed
[17:37] <Azelphur> ali1234: well one thing I notice is that in my /etc/ssh/sshd_config I already have a subsystem sftp line
[17:37] <ali1234> yes of course you do
[17:38] <ali1234> you have to make a new one inside the chroot
[17:38] <Azelphur> so I add a second one?
[17:38] <ali1234> actually that's not true
[17:41] <Azelphur> ali1234: care to elaborate?
[17:41] <ali1234> the line tells which command to use for sftp
[17:42] <ali1234> using the internal one presumably means you don;t need to set up a real chroot
[17:42] <Azelphur> I see
[17:42] <Azelphur> ali1234: so I do need to replace the existing subsystem sftp line?
[17:42] <Azelphur> since it's using /usr/lib/openssh/ftp-server
[17:42] <ali1234> this is actually what the instructions say
[17:44] <Azelphur> I'm not really understanding what they are saying, hense asking
[17:44] <Azelphur> it says either, so I guess it's either or
[17:44] <Azelphur> as I said, I'm asking because I want to be sure, rather than guess and loose access to my box.
[17:47] <daftykins> if only you had an ace VPS like bigv.io where you can get in remotely even if networking is snafu'd
[17:47] <Azelphur> daftykins: indeed, then I could have nowhere near enough CPU time to do what I want! :P
[17:48] <Azelphur> but yea it'd help if we were less vague, as I say this isn't a scenario where I can learn from my mistakes.
[17:48] <daftykins> yaaaay
[17:48] <daftykins> well why is trialling a VM impossible to start with? then taking the lessons learnt there to the live system?
[17:49] <Azelphur> daftykins: I guess I could, would have to install a vm software, and then a full OS, just to get an answer to a yes/no question though :p
[17:52] <daftykins> isn't there that funky free VM spinup service online 0o
[17:52] <daftykins> i remember the Linux Action Show talking about it
[17:52]  * Azelphur shrugs
[17:53] <Azelphur> I guess I'll take a stab and see what happens, I have a rather ugly way of getting back in if push comes to shove.
[17:53] <daftykins> ^_^
[17:54] <ali1234> dedicated servers without remote console?
[17:55] <Azelphur> ali1234: yup, no remote console, if I loose access it's remote hands.
[17:56] <ali1234> that's really bad
[17:56] <diddledan> my dedicated server (at hetzner) has a weird vkvm system that you can use to boot the installed os via a kvm layer
[17:56] <diddledan> (in case you locked yourself out)
[17:57] <diddledan> alternatively they provide time-shared console-over-ip called LARA
[17:57] <ali1234> yeah
[17:57] <diddledan> I can't complain though.. they're well priced for what theuy offer
[17:59] <diddledan> google+ just popped up an article by stuff mag that says : Warning: your smartphone is about to explode – scattering its parts all over you, in the form of wearable tech: http://bit.ly/1alyH7e
[17:59] <diddledan> so what do ya'll think of the galaxy gear?
[18:01] <ali1234> trans-humanism ftw
[18:04] <diddledan> yey for google undercutting itunes
[18:13] <quantumpants> Hi guys
[18:18] <daftykins> hi
[18:41] <Azelphur> how do I set a folder such that when you create a file in it, it's automatically owned by a specific user/group?
[18:42] <directhex> Azelphur, mode +s
[18:42] <directhex> Azelphur, so g+s for files in a folder to inherit group permissions on creation
[18:42] <Azelphur> cool
[18:50] <Azelphur> directhex: for bonus points, writable by group?
[18:58] <directhex> Azelphur, if it's g+w and g+s, then g+w is carried
[19:06] <Azelphur> directhex: nope
[19:06] <Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/iXAQPc9f
[19:09] <diddledan> Azelphur: the file can't preexist
[19:10] <Azelphur> it doesn't, I created it on line 2
[19:10] <diddledan> oic, it's the lack of +w that's the problem
[19:11] <diddledan> your umask still applies to created files
[19:11] <Azelphur> I see, recommended way of fixing?
[19:11] <diddledan> although afaik that is wrong - it _should_ behave as directhex suggests
[19:12] <diddledan> you can try setting `umask 004` (I think that's the right number
[19:13] <Azelphur> isn't 004 read, other?
[19:13] <diddledan> it's a mask, not a permission
[19:13] <Azelphur> oh ok then
[19:13] <diddledan> so you subtract from 7 to get the final value
[19:14] <diddledan> so I'm wrong - 002
[19:14] <diddledan> 777 - 002 = 775
[19:15] <Azelphur> no luck :(
[19:15] <diddledan> so with that umask the file should be created with permissions 775
[19:15] <diddledan> or 664 - I'm unclear what necessitates subtracting the execute bit on files vs folders
[19:29] <mungbean> watching a programme that looks like its a vhs recording :-|
[19:31] <diddledan> mungbean: awesome!
[19:31] <diddledan> mungbean: livestream? :-p
[19:31] <diddledan> let us all revel in the awesomeness that is VHS
[19:32] <popey> I dug out my VHS player recently
[19:32] <MartijnVdS> helical tape!
[19:32] <popey> watched an entire film on it ☻
[19:32] <diddledan> speaking of which. I wired up my super-duper sky+HD box into my super-not-so-duper SD CRT TV
[19:33] <diddledan> I CAN HAZ TV IN BED NOW! :-p
[19:34] <popey> We haz no TV in bed here
[19:34] <mungbean> ah cos mt tv was in auto aspect mode
[19:34] <popey> Unless one of us takes ipad to bed
[19:34] <mungbean> need to borrow a remote control with a button to revert the aspect to widescreen premananetly
[19:34] <diddledan> ipad tv ftw
[19:35] <diddledan> I like that ipad was used in noun form there, popey .. not THE ipad, but ipad as an entity
[19:36] <mgdm> we have a variety of iPads at work for testing on
[19:36] <mgdm> one of them is known as 'iGor'
[19:36] <mgdm> eg. "have you seen iGor?" "He's over there, charging" etc
[19:36] <mungbean> wonder if my multifunction remote can emulate the aspect ratio key on an old telly..
[19:38] <popey> diddledan: it's the correct way to refer to idevices :þ
[19:38] <diddledan> :-)
[19:41] <daftykins> mgdm: :D
[19:41] <daftykins> iGor has developed a hunch :(
[19:42] <diddledan> is that pronounced eye-gore or eeee-gore?
[19:42] <mgdm> eeee-gorr
[19:45] <daftykins> Asus missed a trick there, with their Eee PC line
[19:47] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: you know what they were made of?
[19:47] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: Eee-ore.,
[19:47] <diddledan> *groan*
[19:47] <diddledan> poor pooh
[19:47] <daftykins> ;)
[20:08] <popey> hmm... they don't recommend installing both disks of GTA5 on the xbox because it can't stream the textures quickly enough..
[20:08] <popey> but my xbox360 has an SSD not spinning rust, wonder if that makes it okay.
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> popey: I guess you could try.. but I don't know if you can uninstall just one disk?
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> PS3 \o/
[20:11] <popey> i suspect you can uninstall it entirely
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> and then re-install just the first disk?
[20:12] <directhex> popey, how did you get an ssd into it?
[20:13] <popey> at the back
[20:13] <popey> there's a drive bay
[20:13] <directhex> MartijnVdS, erm, the PSN version of gta5 is significantly worse than the blu-ray version, for exactly the same reason, showing exactly the same symptoms
[20:13] <popey> or am I on crack?
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> directhex: I have the disk version
[20:13] <popey> pretty sure my 360 has an ssd in it ☻
[20:14] <directhex> MartijnVdS, point is, this isn't something the ps3 avoids
[20:14] <MartijnVdS> directhex: I don't have 2 disks to jockey ;)
[20:14] <directhex> 360 version should probably be a bit smoother, in fact - dvd drive in 360 has higher bandwidth than blu-ray drive in ps3
[20:14] <mungbean> playthrough of first mission in gta5 loks amazing
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> directhex: It's good enough for me -- finished the game a few days ago :)
[20:15] <mungbean> wat?
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> (not 100%, but the story missions)
[20:15] <mungbean> wow
[20:15] <mungbean> took time off work/sleep?
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: no, just played evenings after work from tue-fri, then all of sat, sun
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> then I was done ;)
[20:15] <popey> I dreamed of these kinds of games when I was a kid
[20:16] <popey> not the violence but the freedom
[20:16] <MartijnVdS> The very first time I saw GTA 1 in the computer game store (We had one! :)) I wanted it
[20:16] <mgdm> when I played GTA2 before I didn't bother with the missions, much
[20:16] <mgdm> I just toured about and occasionally wreaked havoc
[20:17] <directhex> (72 Mbit/s for 2x BD-ROM, 132.96 Mbit/s for 12x DVD)
[20:17] <mgdm> there was a quite cool game called Armadillo Run on the PC I had, but I found it more interesting to just play with the physics than to actually complete the levels
[20:17] <mungbean> i quite enjoyed galloping around in that elder scroll game
[20:17] <directhex> (this is why in most cases, ps3 games have mandatory installs and 360 games do not)
[20:17] <popey> yeah, i just run around being mental
[20:17] <popey> i rarely do the missions
[20:18] <popey> probably why I like minecraft
[20:19] <MartijnVdS> you'll love Trevor then ;)
[20:19] <daftykins> heh switching into Trevor is a rollercoaster in its' own right
[20:19] <MartijnVdS> also, the missions aren't as annoying anymore, they have checkpoints at sane intevals
[20:19] <MartijnVdS> +r
[20:19] <daftykins> and they're fun too!
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: well, some are less fun than others (*cough*Chop*cough*)
[20:20] <daftykins> hah
[20:20] <daftykins> i don't own an Apple device to get at it so far =/
[20:20] <daftykins> waiting for the Android release
[20:20] <popey> trevor?
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> neither do I, and I hate dogs IRL too :P
[20:20] <popey> oh, one of the characters
[20:21] <daftykins> yes sir
[20:21] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: oh? bitten as a child? :)
[20:21] <popey> gotcha
[20:21] <popey> i have been watching "lets play" videos of GTA5
[20:21] <popey> so I don't need to do the missions ☻
[20:21] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: Nah, dogs are too needy imho.
[20:21] <MartijnVdS> popey: you do, to unlock stuff :)
[20:22] <daftykins> agreed
[20:22] <MartijnVdS> popey: yes you can cheat, but where's the fun in that
[20:22] <daftykins> ^ yeah you need to make some progress so you get access to cool things
[20:22] <MartijnVdS> popey: also, you need to play missions to be able to play as all characters
[20:22] <popey> different people have different ideas of what "fun" means
[20:22] <mungbean> mowed the lawn for autumn today. hope i don't have to go out there again
[20:22] <daftykins> i'd say planes are always fun
[20:23] <mungbean> i find missions quite stressful
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: they're better than in older GTAs, the checkpoints (and 3 fails = skippable checkpoint) make it work
[20:24] <daftykins> or you could get good :(
[20:25] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: I haven't skipped a checkpoint yet, just noticed the option
[20:25] <mungbean> i haven't played since i sold my ps2 (hence vice city)
[20:25] <daftykins> yeah i'm just commenting on the way the games are holding hands more
[20:25] <MartijnVdS> vice city was the worst
[20:25] <mungbean> i had gta3 and nice city
[20:25] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: what makes you say that?
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> "Drive across 3 islands and kill this man. Now drive across 3 more islands kill another man and lose the police"
[20:26] <popey> Princess Robot Bubblegum
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> Oh with a time limit
[20:26] <daftykins> popey: :D perversion extreme \o/
[20:26] <mungbean> the time limits are the stress
[20:26] <mungbean> on the ds its crazy
[20:27] <popey> which ds game?
[20:27] <daftykins> there have always been two major things i detest in gaming
[20:27] <daftykins> 1) time limits
[20:27] <daftykins> 2) protection missions
[20:27] <daftykins> Chinatown Wars i expect
[20:27] <daftykins> (GTA)
[20:27] <mungbean> yep
[20:27] <popey> i think i have that
[20:27] <daftykins> mungbean: are you liking it aside from that?
[20:27] <mungbean> help charlie chan win the race by blocking hte other cars
[20:27] <MartijnVdS> racing missions *urgh*
[20:27] <mungbean> i do like it but its stressy
[20:28] <daftykins> haha
[20:28] <shauno> escort missions wouldn't big me so much, if the dummy made any effort to stay close / keep up / act like its on my side
[20:28] <shauno> er, *bug
[20:28] <daftykins> that's where lies the rub :D
[20:29] <shauno> reformed WoW addict.  escorts were one of those things that make collecting spiders legs look fun
[20:30] <mungbean> there's blokes playing football on the field every night on te field outside..its pitch dark out
[20:30] <MartijnVdS> football pitch dark!
[20:31] <daftykins> XD
[20:32] <mungbean> i was lying in bed hearing thump thump
[20:32] <mungbean> said to missis, thats football being kicked
[20:32] <mungbean> she's like naaah
[20:32] <directhex> there are worse things than racing missions
[20:32] <directhex> there are worse things than escort quests
[20:32] <directhex> and there are worse things than time limits
[20:32] <directhex> there is... mandatory in-game poker
[20:33] <mungbean> ?
[20:33] <mungbean> redhot poker?
[20:33] <directhex> story mission: win at poker
[20:33] <MartijnVdS> directhex: police quest 1
[20:33] <directhex> see also: dead rising 2, red dead redemption, far cry 3
[20:34] <mungbean> iron lord
[20:36] <mungbean> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLe5mxCdGZc
[20:38] <daftykins> directhex: that must've been rigged to be easy though because i passed the RDR one first time
[20:38] <daftykins> >:D
[21:29] <directhex> daftykins, rdr one?
[21:31] <daftykins> poker game
[21:39] <bigcalm> Cat has found my pack of Tesco "Ultimate Granola" and wants in. What a strange cat I have
[21:43] <daftykins> :D
[21:43] <bigcalm> Anybody here successfully running CM on their Xoom?
[21:44] <popey> people bought xooms? ☻
[21:45]  * bigcalm kippers popey :P
[21:48] <diddledan> :-p
[21:48] <popey> wish I knew why my windows pc wont sleep
[21:49] <bigcalm> popey: too much coffee
[21:49] <bigcalm> Is it its birthday tomorrow? Might be too excited to sleep
[21:49] <bigcalm> I know I would be (if I cared about such events)
[21:52] <diddledan> so.. the question which I seem to ask myself every 3 months or so, I'm asking yet again.. do I go wholesale ubuntu on eeveerything to the extent of removing os x from my macbook and so forth?! obviously I'm staying android on my galaxynexus/nexus7 and ios on my iphone/ipad because the alternatives either don't exist (ios) or aren't ready yet (nexae)
[21:53] <daftykins> it's always handy to keep OS X on for firmware updates though
[21:53] <diddledan> true dat
[21:56]  * popey stabs windows
[21:59] <daftykins> popey: maybe you set it up wrong :(
[21:59] <popey> riiiight
[21:59] <diddledan> daftykins: of course he did, it's windows
[21:59] <daftykins> :D
[21:59] <popey> how exactly does one setup suspend wrong
[21:59] <daftykins> the OS not the function
[21:59] <daftykins> day-um
[22:00] <daftykins> but i jested from the outset, so no need to be all srs bsns
[22:00] <popey> well, I couldn't tell that could I
[22:00] <daftykins> guess not :(
[22:00] <popey> was hoping for some help
[22:00] <popey> never mind
[22:00] <daftykins> oh right
[22:00] <daftykins> so what's it doing?
[22:00] <diddledan> popey: fwiw I've never had windows work properly with suspenders
[22:01] <daftykins> goes away and doesn't come back? or fails to stay down?
[22:01] <popey> press suspend button, screen goes dark, then logon screen comes back
[22:01] <popey> doesn't actually suspend
[22:01] <daftykins> any messages in the event log?
[22:01] <diddledan> why can't microsoft use text files for the event log - much easier than trying to figure out their antiquated search system
[22:02] <popey> nope
[22:02] <popey> diddledan: see systemd and the new world order on linux
[22:02] <daftykins> hmm, odd to not have gotten a power management entry
[22:02] <diddledan> popey: don't tell me even linux is moving away from flat text files?!
[22:02] <daftykins> i'd ignore any hardware buttons and use the start menu function to be sure?
[22:02] <popey> tried that too
[22:03] <popey> daftykins: for system log, yes
[22:03] <diddledan> oh ffs
[22:03] <diddledan> WHY?!
[22:03] <popey> https://docs.google.com/a/popey.com/document/pub?id=1IC9yOXj7j6cdLLxWEBAGRL6wl97tFxgjLUEHIX3MSTs&pli=1
[22:03] <popey> its already done on fedora
[22:04] <daftykins> is this 7?
[22:04] <popey> yes
[22:04] <directhex> Azelphur, Asicminer block erupter USB - useful for anything?
[22:04] <Azelphur> directhex: I wouldn't buy one right now
[22:05] <daftykins> popey: hmmph, did you wipe the factory install so this is a custom one? no manufacturer power management related gubbins to install?
[22:06] <popey> its a pretty clean install yeah
[22:06] <popey> no factory gubbins
[22:06] <popey> wonder if it needs some chipset driver from the mobo vendor
[22:06] <daftykins> not if it's intel based
[22:06] <daftykins> intel INFs don't tend to do too much other than rename components in device manager
[22:08] <daftykins> although, i've noticed modern ultrabooks that make use of the Intel RST (rapid storage tech.) drivers sometimes use a dedicated hibernation (i know you're suspending not hibernating) partition to write the RAM contents to
[22:08]  * popey installs cpu-z to find out what mobo is in this
[22:08] <popey> would be faster to reboot to linux ☻
[22:09] <directhex> Azelphur, for free?
[22:09] <Azelphur> directhex: for free, dunno, what's the hashrate on those again?
[22:09] <directhex> um, 366?
[22:09] <popey> aha, MSI H61M
[22:09] <daftykins> popey: the intel installer is one for all these days
[22:10] <popey> ooh, bios updates too
[22:10] <popey> lots of stuff to download
[22:10] <daftykins> ;)
[22:11] <daftykins> ah desktop?
[22:11] <popey> ya
[22:11] <directhex> i wish i had beelions of pounds. i could afford a new pc!
[22:11] <popey> my "gaming" machine
[22:11] <daftykins> :>
[22:11] <daftykins> i nearly upgraded, decided to delay again
[22:11] <popey> can't see myself buying anything new
[22:12] <popey> maybe new GPU if the one I have isn't up to GTAV
[22:12] <directhex> i guess this system isn't quite as i originally built it
[22:12] <daftykins> yeah nothing is really worth going up to for me, from a core 2 quad
[22:12] <directhex> geforce 260 -> 660, +ssd
[22:12] <directhex> 6 -> 12 GB ram
[22:12] <popey> ooh, ram yes
[22:12] <directhex> cpu is oooold though
[22:12] <popey> thats a good point
[22:12] <popey> 8-> 16GB
[22:13]  * daftykins pats his DDR2 systems
[22:13] <directhex> i7 920. it was high end when i got it!
[22:13] <popey> ooh, bios update from A.80 to C.30
[22:13] <popey> Must be good!
[22:13] <directhex> but to date the system... vista cd key stuck to the case
[22:13] <daftykins> my file server has a funky board with DDR2 and 3 slots, but you could fit only as much in DDR3 as currently is in as DDR2
[22:13] <daftykins> popey: that's quite the code change D:
[22:13] <daftykins> is it really the one?
[22:14] <popey> ya
[22:14] <popey> http://uk.msi.com/product/mb/H61M-E33--B3-.html#/?div=BIOS
[22:15] <popey> hmm
[22:15] <popey> it's rebooted 4 times now
[22:15] <popey> phew, bios update screen
[22:15] <daftykins> :D
[22:15] <popey> wonder what magic this brings, maybe suspend will work :D
[22:15] <daftykins> \o/
[22:15]  * daftykins has a peruse through the downloads page
[22:16] <popey> haha, new bootsplash
[22:16] <daftykins> ^_^ i disable those
[22:16] <popey> MSI - TOP QUALITY & STABILITY
[22:17] <popey>     MAINBOARD
[22:17] <daftykins> btw any devices in device manager lacking their drivers?
[22:17] <popey> ah excellent. Boot error
[22:17] <popey> probably the usb key
[22:17] <daftykins> or it probably reset SATA mode
[22:17] <daftykins> i'd definitely load defaults after an update, old school style
[22:17] <popey> \o/ grub
[22:17] <popey> pffft
[22:17] <popey> straight to windows!
[22:18] <popey> well, it boots, so that's a start :D
[22:18] <daftykins> ^_^
[22:19] <popey> ooh, windows wants to change (probably driver detection I imagine)
[22:19] <popey> this is all very exciting
[22:20] <popey> yeah, 4th time seeing that bootsplash. needs to go ☻
[22:20] <popey> gosh lots of driver updates on the msi website
[22:21] <daftykins> i tend to get things straight from the manufacturer, they're always so out of date on mobo sites
[22:21] <popey> these aren't too bad
[22:21] <popey> 2013-08-19
[22:21] <popey> for the VGA driver
[22:21] <popey> thats probably newer than the linux one ㋛
[22:21] <daftykins> hehe
[22:21] <popey> (which is shit)
[22:21]  * popey tests suspend first
[22:22] <popey> bah
[22:22] <daftykins> is anything lacking drivers in device manager though? the intel management engine is a common one
[22:23] <popey> no, they're there
[22:23] <popey> just 2 years old ☻
[22:23] <daftykins> hrmmz
[22:23] <popey> well this isnt right
[22:24] <popey> the vga driver it offered me to download is ivy bridge
[22:24] <daftykins> i think they're all in one too
[22:24] <daftykins> at least, from intel
[22:25]  * popey installs
[22:33] <AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/24220206 the news that matters
[22:34] <daftykins> indeed
[22:34] <daftykins> thankfully i have yet to spend my virtual moneys on virtual cars
[22:34] <daftykins> :>
[22:37] <popey> two more drivers to do
[22:37] <popey> audio and lan
[22:38] <popey> would be funny to buy a steambox in pcworld or currys
[22:39] <popey> assuming top 5 hw manufacturers make them
[22:42] <popey> bah, still no suspend
[22:45] <popey> ~130 quid for 16GB RAM
[22:46] <popey> wat! you can buy 960GB SSDs now!
[22:46] <popey> ~450 quid
[22:55] <popey> directhex: oi oi. are there many games in steam which still use air?
[22:55] <popey> I'm sure I bought one from the humble bundle a while back
[23:11] <bigcalm> Nice
[23:26]  * popey suspends the same desktop under linux.. no problem ☹
[23:27] <daftykins> :(
[23:31] <daftykins> in fairness it's usually the other way around :D
[23:32]  * bigcalm slithers off to sleep
[23:32] <bigcalm> Toodles
[23:32]  * bigcalm tries sleeping this machine for a giggle
[23:32] <shauno> I had a laptop that did that for a while.  it'd suspend-to-disk but wouldn't resume-from-disk.  ugh.
[23:32] <popey> daftykins: well exactly!
[23:33]  * popey sleeps this one too
[23:33] <popey> nn all
[23:33] <popey> wonder if mosh will carry on in the morning
[23:33] <popey> we'll see
[23:35] <daftykins> yep i'm off too
[23:35] <daftykins> nn all o/


[02:36] <Guest68418> the goal of lubuntu is to increase productivity and efficiency, meaning lightweight and user friendliness right?
[02:39] <Unit193> Are you looking for something?
[02:46] <Guest68418> aren't we all? :P
[02:51] <Unit193> Your question seems to lead to something, I was wondering what that might be.  I'd be looking for cookies, but I  know they are either all gone, or now right next to me. :D
[03:25] <Guest68418> when using an external monitor as the sole main monitor with a laptop, upon login, it seems to mess up open box in the background, as if the laptop monitor is overlayed in the background which messed up the background image and ssometimes the conky i am running
[03:36] <Guest68418> it seems to be a bug
[03:39] <Guest68418> and also when when switching users and relogging back to a session you have to enter your password twice with lightDM and xscreensaver, but this probably won't be a problem in the next release since lubuntu is getting rid of xscreensaver for screen locking
[03:40] <Unit193> This is the released version?
[03:40] <Guest68418> yeah
[03:40] <Guest68418> 13.04
[03:40] <Unit193> You should be able to disable the xscreensaver one.
[03:41] <Guest68418> screen locking is a good feature, but is it just redundant since you already just logged on with lightDM
[03:45] <Guest68418> but the openbox problem when switching to another external monitor is a bigger bug, and when switching from one monitor to another it is best to do the process one at a time since if you do it simultaneously both screens black out and since you can't see anything on either screen the only way to fix it is to restart
[03:46] <Guest68418> right now if i click on the desktop background it is as if it is an openbox desktop with the menus
[04:21] <Guest68418> please, change the lightDM theme to the standard Ubuntu theme. thanks
[04:21] <holstein> Guest68418: you mean, you want to change the theme?
[04:21] <Guest68418> of the LightDM, yeah
[04:21] <Unit193> Guest68418: You can install unity-greeter, may pull in extra deps.
[04:22] <Guest68418> deps?
[04:22] <holstein> Guest68418: you can have *exactly* what the main version has.. but it is heavier
[04:22] <holstein> danmackay: deps = dependencies
[04:22] <holstein> danmackay: sorry
[04:22] <holstein> Guest68418: ^^
[04:22] <Unit193> Yep, has quite a few more.
[04:22] <holstein> Guest68418: meaning, it'll be heavier than it is now
[04:24] <Guest68418> but my computer isn't that heavy right now, i can carry it with one arm
[04:24] <Guest68418> lol jk :P
[04:24] <Guest68418> it shouldn't be that heavier since when Windows XP has a nice login theme
[04:24] <Guest68418> even*
[04:24] <holstein> Guest68418: if you are comfortable with the additions, add it
[04:26] <Guest68418> can this be found in the lubuntu software center?
[04:26] <holstein> Guest68418: lubuntu *is* ubuntu.. the same sources.. so *any* packae manager will have access to all the software
[04:27] <Guest68418> its not on there, i'll try synaptic
[04:28] <holstein> !info unity-greeter
[04:28] <holstein> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install unity-greeter
[04:29] <Guest68418> do you recommend an alternative greeter that is lightweight but with a similar interface?
[04:30] <holstein> Guest68418: i recommend the one that is used by default
[04:30] <Guest68418> such as Razor Greeter, Pantheon Greeter... etc?
[04:30] <holstein> Guest68418: its look/feel is fine with me
[04:31] <holstein> Guest68418: if you prefer another one, you are welcome to use one
[04:31] <holstein> Guest68418: i dont think razor or pantheon are in the default repos yet.. so, you are still welcome to them, but they are not officialy supported
[04:34] <Guest68418> why does it install plugins for facebook, twitter, flickr and google?
[04:35] <holstein> Guest68418: the main ubuntu has social additions.. could be dependenies..
[04:36] <Unit193> Could try with --no-install-recommends
[04:37] <Guest68418> how does that command look
[04:37] <Guest68418> sudo apt-get install unity-greeter --no-install-recommends ?
[04:37] <Unit193> sudo apt-get install --no-install-recommends unity-greeter
[04:38] <Guest68418> i'll reinstall it after its done
[04:38] <Unit193> You'll still have the extras.
[04:38] <Guest68418> its a big install tho, about 140MB
[04:38] <holstein> Guest68418: whats a "big" install? the greeter?
[04:38] <Guest68418> yeah
[04:38] <holstein> Guest68418: thats the "heaviness" i was commenting on..
[04:39] <Unit193> lightdm-remote-session-freerdp sounds interesting...
[04:42] <Unit193> Adios.
[04:45] <Guest55146> the lightDM login theme is still the same
[04:46] <holstein> Guest55146: same as?
[04:46] <Guest55146> before, nothing changed
[04:46] <holstein> Guest55146: are you still using the lubuntu greeter?
[04:46] <holstein> you'll want to switch to the ubuntu one
[04:47] <Guest55146> how would i do that
[04:48] <holstein> sudo dpkg-reconfigure gdm maybe
[04:49] <Unit193> sudo dpkg-reconfigure -f dialog unity-greeter
[04:49] <holstein> Guest55146: ^
[04:49] <Unit193> Or just purge the lightdm-gtk-greeter. :P
[04:49] <holstein> yeah, if you dont want it
[04:54] <Guest23983> its not working
[04:54] <holstein> Guest23983: its?
[04:55] <Guest23983> so i guess "sudo apt-get purge unity-greeter" is the right command?
[04:55] <holstein> Guest23983: the unity-greeter? or the command? or the theme?
[04:55] <holstein> Guest23983: if you want to purge the greeter you wanted to add, yse
[04:55] <holstein> yes*
[04:55] <Guest23983> all of the above is not working
[04:55] <holstein> if you want to *not* use the other one. you should purge it
[04:56] <Guest23983> yeah, it installed a bunch of stuff like rythembox that i don't use
[04:56] <holstein> http://askubuntu.com/questions/75755/how-to-change-the-lightdm-theme-greeter might be relevant
[04:57] <holstein> Guest23983: the "additions" are the additions i referenced in the beginning.. when i said "heavy".. that was what i was talking about
[04:59] <Guest23983> hopefully, in future releases lubuntu login screen will be a lightweight version with a similar interface to Ubuntu or Windows OSes so that i can install Lubuntu on computers for family who are not computer savvy
[05:01] <holstein> Guest23983: why would it be similar to ubuntu?.. you can always just get ubuntu
[05:02] <holstein> Guest23983: i would try xubuntu for those users. maybe something a little more "mainstream"
[05:02] <holstein> the folks i have installed lubuntu for seem to just login fine
[05:03] <Guest23983> actually Ubuntu is a good choice, but i prefer Lubuntu because the computers will just be basic computers, and Ubuntu has a lot of bloat that they will never use
[05:04] <holstein> Guest23983: thats why i said "xubuntu" and not ubuntu
[05:04] <Guest23983> holstein, the purge command didn't work to complete remove all the stuff it installed, i still have rhythmbox and all that other stuff
[05:04] <holstein> Guest23983: but, they are all ubuntu... and have ways any user can easily login
[05:05] <holstein> Guest23983: feel free and manually remove whatever you like
[05:05] <ianorlin> wait they can't log in really
[05:05] <holstein> ianorlin: they cant "easily" login like in ubuntu and windows?
[05:05] <holstein> ianorlin: not sure about the details...
[05:05] <Unit193> Guest23983: sudo apt-get autoremove --purge && sudo apt-get autoclean
[05:06] <Guest23983> sudo apt-get autoremove --purge unity-greeter ?
[05:06] <Unit193> Sure.
[05:11] <Guest23983> thanks, it said it removed about 50MB of the plugins from google, facebook, twitter and rhythmbox and stuff...., but i thought the initial install was about 140MB
[05:12] <holstein> maybe 140mb's of disk space
[05:12] <Guest23983> so i should be fine?
[05:13] <holstein> Guest23983: fine in what way?
[05:13] <Guest23983> that everything it installed was actually removed
[05:13] <holstein> Guest23983: i look at the list.. and make a note if i want to be sure
[05:13] <holstein> Guest23983: i dont konw what all got installed or why...
[05:14] <holstein> Guest23983: it'll be "fine" having any of those packages...
[05:15] <Guest23983> i'll have faith that it was purged properly
[05:15] <Guest23983> thanks for your help guys, ttyl
[05:15] <holstein> Guest23983: why? just look in the future, and make a note it you want.. then you *know*
[05:15] <Guest23983> ok
[08:59] <Noskcaj> one of the mint devs has sent a huge number of lxde fixes into debian. Once they get out of mentors, we might be able to sync some. http://mentors.debian.net/packages/uploader/mati75%40linuxmint.pl
[13:28] <shlomi> hello can i get some help ?
[13:30] <shlomi> some1 here and can help me ?
[17:25] <leszek> hi
[18:02] <Guest74987> honestly, which is more lightweight Windows XP or Lubuntu?
[18:05] <leszek> Guest74987: define lightweight
[18:06] <Guest74987> uses less resources and is faster at booting up and doing basic computer things
[18:08] <holstein> xp is nearly EOL.. and lubuntu is currently actively developed
[18:08] <holstein> dont know if its "fair" to compare an OS that is released 4 months ago to one 10 years old
[18:08] <holstein> both should be "light", depending on use case.. hardware support might be a factor
[18:09] <Guest74987> yeah, but there is problems with hardware drivers, so i'm just wondering if it is worth changing it to lubuntu
[18:09] <holstein> Guest74987: no prooblems
[18:10] <holstein> Guest74987: you have an agreement with the hardware you purchased.. that you would run windows on it, and that the vendor will provide you drivers.. going with linux, you decide to take that responsibility on
[18:10] <holstein> Guest74987: what do i suggest? try it live, and see how the hardware is supported.. the linux kernel is modular and supports most hardware "out of the box"
[18:11] <Guest74987> if it is my personal computer i wouldn't mind as much
[18:11] <Guest74987> yeah, i'm testing it right now
[18:11] <holstein> Guest74987: this has nothing to do with what you 'mind'.. this is fact
[19:10] <Guest74987> the disk test utility doesn't seem to work in Lubuntu
[19:11] <Guest74987> it just keeps loading, it has been loading for almost 40 mins now
[19:11] <Guest74987> same problem this guy has http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2139654
[19:13] <Guest74987> same problem this guy was having http://askubuntu.com/questions/321363/safe-to-install-lubuntu-from-livecd-after-force-quitting-check-disk-for-defects
[19:18] <Guest74987> no real solution was provided
[19:37] <holstein> Guest74987: i use diagnistic live CD's.. i just have them laying around
[19:37] <holstein> Guest74987: we should get someone to confirm that issue
[19:44] <ianorlin>  loads for me
[23:35] <Guest74987> so the current stable version of Lubuntu will only be supported for about 4 more months?
[23:36] <holstein> !13.04
[23:36] <Unit193> Yep, 9mo.
[23:36] <holstein> i think the term is 9 months total
[23:40] <Guest74987> so it would be better to install the older version
[23:41] <Guest74987> now you tell me!
[23:41] <semitones> HELLO!
[23:41] <Guest74987> hi
[23:41] <semitones> I love you all :D
[23:42] <Guest74987> thanks
[23:42] <holstein> "better" is a matter of opinion.. 13.04 is the current supported version
[23:42] <Guest74987> if you install the older version, at least you will have full support up until the LTS version comes out
[23:43] <holstein> Guest74987: there is not official LTS from lubuntu
[23:44] <Guest74987> 14.04 probably will be
[23:44] <Unit193> Yep, but that's not out yet, or in development.
[23:44] <holstein> Guest74987: as i stated, lubuntu has no official LTS, and AFAIK none are planned
[23:44] <Unit193> holstein: 14.04 they may go for it, actually.
[23:44] <Guest74987> i win! :P
[23:45] <holstein> Guest74987: currently, there is no LTS> i am not tring to argue or "win"
[23:45] <Guest74987> IMO, Lubuntu should just focus on LTS
[23:46] <Guest74987> Ubuntu has 2 year LTS releases now i think
[23:46] <holstein> Guest74987: 5
[23:46] <holstein> Guest74987: these are documented.. you can look it up
[23:46] <Guest74987> i mean, isn't Ubuntu going to release LTS every 2 years now?
[23:47] <holstein> Guest74987: that is the plan, and has been for a while
[23:47] <holstein> Guest74987: could always change that, if needed, in theory
[23:50] <Guest74987> a new release twice a year or a new release every 2 years, which would you prefer? or lubuntu could just be released once a year on xx.04 to be in line with LTS releases from Ubuntu
[23:51] <Guest74987> developers would be spread too thin with 2 releases per year, even with reducing support to only 9 months
[23:57] <Guest74987> i rather have at least a full 1 year support for any distro i choose to install
[23:58] <Guest74987> so chances are i'll only be installing the LTS versions


[20:07] <czajkowski> aloha
[20:07] <czajkowski> so I was thinking as was Pendulum  regarding a meeting
[20:07] <czajkowski> so we can cross items off the blueprint
[20:07] <czajkowski> and work on stuff for the M cycle
[20:07] <czajkowski> so what do we need to cover/revise ?
[20:09] <Pendulum> I suspect we need to go through the blueprint item by item to see what's actually been done
[20:10] <Pendulum> some of these I can say "yes" or "maybe" and a lot I have no clue whether they've happened or not
[20:17] <czajkowski> nods#
[20:24] <Pendulum> (sorry, my eyes are going fuzzy so i'm a little slow)
[20:25] <czajkowski> thats ok
[20:25] <czajkowski> I'm finally having dinner
[20:25] <czajkowski> was full from bacon tastic breakie
[20:25] <Pendulum> heh
[20:25] <czajkowski> I'll go through bp and come back in a few


[01:13] <pleia2> aww, sabdfl sends his love to the flavors in his uds keynote
[01:14]  * pleia2 is about 4 days behind
[01:14] <Unit193> Still ahead of me.
[11:20] <brainwash> ali1234: amazing job so far, great comments and helpful links. so it looks like there will be a solution pretty "soon"
[11:23] <brainwash> ali1234: so which branches/code needs to be tested now (lightdm-gtk-greeter and xfwm4)? links please :)
[12:12] <elfy> knome: ty - I see the xubuntu.org got updated
[12:16] <knome> np
[12:17] <elfy> I see you warned slicky I was looking for him too :p
[12:23] <knome> mhm, fair enough ;)
[12:25] <elfy> he he he
[13:24] <jjfrv8> knome, you were looking for me?
[13:57] <ali1234> brainwash: i'm just working on the greeter code to fix that up. for now you can test https://github.com/ali1234/xfwm4/tree/zoom2
[13:58] <ali1234> this doesn't look as bad as it did last night
[14:00] <ali1234> greeter should be using XROOTPMAP_ID and ESETROOT_PMAP_ID, then it's resources can get cleared properly
[14:01] <ali1234> the xfwm4 code looks fine - it doesn't ever set the background, so really it only needs to look at XROOTPMAP_ID, which is same in both standards
[14:17] <jjfrv8> bblte
[15:17] <ali1234> hahaha...
[15:18] <ali1234> so the ugly code in lightdm-gtk-greeter was lifted straight from gnome... the fixes made in mate are exactly the same ones we need
[15:18] <bluesabre> the greeter or xfwm?
[15:21] <ali1234> greeter
[15:22] <ali1234> https://github.com/jasmineaura/mate-desktop/blob/2876f1eba73c126cfc6017856345e7eebe6d8d61/libmate-desktop/mate-bg.c#L1116
[15:22] <ali1234> code looks familiar...
[15:23] <bluesabre> a bit! :)
[15:24] <ali1234> i wish people would document when they copy & paste code
[15:24] <ali1234> it would make fixing it so much easier
[15:26] <bluesabre> true
[15:26] <bluesabre> I think I'll start doing that in the future :D
[15:46] <ali1234> heh... even this fixed code appears to have bugs
[15:46] <ali1234> eg it frees the old background before setting the new one, causing some ugly corruption
[16:11] <ali1234> hmm that's interesting... the greeter actually restarts each time you change user selection
[16:20] <ali1234> oh dear
[16:20] <ali1234> this "fixed" code actually doesn't work at all
[16:20] <ali1234> it doesn't ever create the atoms, so they never exist, so the code does nothing
[16:21] <ali1234> oh well, i fixed it
[16:43] <ali1234> heh, this bug was already fixed in mate :)
[16:43] <brainwash> ali1234: you should consider becoming a member of the lightdm gtk greeter team
[16:44] <ali1234> i thought you added me :)
[16:45] <brainwash> unofficially :D
[16:54] <ali1234> i just realised something: xfwm does not memcpy the pixmap, it memcpys the pixmap's ID
[16:54] <ali1234> so that can go invalid later one
[18:19] <ali1234> hmm. greeter is still leaking memory
[18:19] <ali1234> but the good news is it no longer leaks X client connections
[18:32] <ali1234> cool... 2000 background changes, memory use did not increase :)
[20:09] <arielsanflo> hello
[20:10] <TheMaster> Howdy.
[20:11] <arielsanflo> i am from colombia
[20:11] <arielsanflo> my english is so so
[20:56] <andrzejr> hi, it seems that xubuntu 13.10 is still using xfce4-indicator-plugin 0.5, any reason you can't upgrade to 1.0?
[20:57] <andrzejr> 1.0 has e.g. gui for black/white-listing indicators, people are asking me how to do it since 13.10 has been released.
[20:58] <skellat> andrzejr: Will it require bringing GTK3 in?
[21:00] <Noskcaj> IIRC 1.0 was the last gtk2 release, and is what debian has
[21:01] <Noskcaj> No one got around to fixing the xubuntu patch, so we never got it
[21:01] <TheMaster> I thought the idea was to get it in backports, but Mica kept being busy at work.
[21:03] <Noskcaj> something like that (i thought 2.1 was for backports though).
[21:03] <Noskcaj> We need a way to get micah or lionel to stop having lives and do more xubuntu stuff.
[21:05] <andrzejr> skellat, no, 1.x branch is reserved for gtk2 versions.
[21:06] <andrzejr> I know there is a long term plan of switching to 2.x (gtk3) but this is progressing slowly, and meanwhile gtk2 users are left behind.
[21:06] <skellat> Right now we don't have 1.0 in the Ubuntu archive
[21:06] <skellat> So we need to get that in for Trusty and then it can be backported
[21:07] <andrzejr> Ah, I though you tried 1.0 and found issues with it.
[21:09] <skellat> I just don't see any action on our end since May 2013 comparing the two changelogs.  We've got Ubuntu deltas to the Debian package.  http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/x/xfce4-indicator-plugin/xfce4-indicator-plugin_0.5.0-2ubuntu2/changelog
[21:26] <andrzejr> skellat, do you think that could be done anytime soon?
[22:28] <ali1234> right. lightdm-gtk-greeter is finally not leaking at all, anything, ever : https://code.launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/lightdm-gtk-greeter/experimental
[22:28] <ali1234> the next question is how to make xfwm4 and xfdesktop cooperate with this
[22:57] <ochosi> ali1234: you actually were already added to the lightdm-gtk-greeter team, so feel free to push to a branch there
[22:58] <ali1234> i don't really know how to be honest
[22:58] <arielsanflo> hello
[22:58] <arielsanflo> i am from colombia
[22:58] <arielsanflo> no speack english
[22:58] <arielsanflo> help
[22:58] <Noskcaj> hey arielsanflo
[22:58] <arielsanflo> software center
[22:59] <arielsanflo> no funciona
[22:59] <arielsanflo> en ubuntu 14.04
[22:59] <Noskcaj> arielsanflo, you want #ubuntu
[22:59] <ochosi> ali1234: you can go to the branch bluesabre created on the lp-website and it should tell you an example bzr push line
[22:59] <drc> !es
[22:59] <arielsanflo> yes
[22:59] <ochosi> ali1234: sry, am on an ipad here, so cant really help more...
[22:59] <arielsanflo> de haya me mandaron aca
[23:01] <drc> ping GridCube
[23:04] <ali1234> ochosi: so i just push to ~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team insetad ~a-j-buxton?
[23:08] <drc> arielsanflo: For technical support for xubuntu join #xubuntu, for 14.04 support, #ubuntu+1.  Both channels, however, are primarily in English
[23:08] <arielsanflo> drc thanks
[23:09] <ali1234> if you are trying to install commercial stuff, you probably won't find it in the software center in development releases (ie 14.04)
[23:14] <arielsanflo> and I have this error when you upgrade
[23:14] <arielsanflo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6466158/
[23:27] <GridCube> drc, pong
[23:30] <drc> GridCube: I think arielsanflo needs some direction (in Spanish) on where to get support (apparently his/her English is not good enough to understand what was told).  Care to help him/her ?
[23:31] <GridCube> oh, right
[23:32] <GridCube> arielsanflo, hola como estás, que problema parece que tenes?
[23:39] <arielsanflo> gridcube
[23:39] <arielsanflo> gracias
[23:40] <arielsanflo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6466158/
[23:40] <arielsanflo> al hacer sudo apt-get update
[23:43] <GridCube> arielsanflo, http://askubuntu.com/questions/120621/how-to-fix-duplicate-sources-list-entry
[23:47] <knome> GridCube, this ain't a support channel though.
[23:48] <GridCube> knome, he is in trusty tho
[23:48] <GridCube> but you are right
[23:48] <knome> nonetheless... ultimately, i don't expect anything in trusty to be very trusty yet :P
[23:49] <knome> jjfrv8, hey... you happen to be around now? :)
[23:58] <jjfrv8> knome, yes, just got back. What's up?
[23:58] <arielsanflo> muachas gracias por la ayuda
[23:59] <knome> jjfrv8, wondered if you'd be up for looking over the doc blueprint
[23:59] <jjfrv8> you mean together?
[23:59] <knome> yep :)
[23:59] <jjfrv8> ok


[03:00] <mysterioso> is this a good room to learn about the IRC
[03:01] <mysterioso> ?
[03:01] <no0tic> no
[03:01] <mysterioso> neone even monitoring?
[03:01] <no0tic> no
[03:01] <no0tic> :)
[03:01] <mysterioso> no0tic what is a good room to learn about the IRC
[03:02] <no0tic> first of all they are channels, not rooms :)
[03:02] <nalioth> mysterioso: this is not where you're looking for, either
[03:02] <mysterioso> im not ?
[03:03] <mysterioso> i just want a good CHANNEL to talk about the IRC
[03:04] <mysterioso> and seein as how this is called ubuntu-irc i thought this would be a fine place
[03:04] <no0tic> mysterioso, /topic
[03:05] <mysterioso> uhhuh
[03:05] <mysterioso> well will someone jsut help me find the right channel?  or tell me how to find a channel in general?
[03:05] <nalioth> mysterioso: most networks have a HELP channel
[03:05] <mysterioso> help
[03:06] <mysterioso> didnt work
[03:08] <no0tic> mysterioso, /j #help
[03:33] <mysterioso> can i create a channel called #ubuntu-banned?
[03:34] <nalioth> no
[03:35] <mysterioso> isnt there supposed to be some type of coucil vote here?
[03:35] <nalioth> no
[03:35] <mysterioso> will I get in trouble for creating that channel?
[03:36] <nalioth> what do you think?
[03:36] <mysterioso> no
[03:37] <mysterioso> if it doesnt exist why cant I create it?
[03:37] <nalioth> because this is freenode
[03:37] <mysterioso> and that means?
[03:37] <nalioth> means you should read http://freenode.net to see how we roll
[03:38] <mysterioso> thanks
[03:41] <mysterioso> it says that topical or reference channels are a first come first serve basis
[03:42] <mysterioso> the way i see it , is  that since my channel name would be #ubuntu-banned  and the topic would be about being banned from #ubuntu.  not only does it coincide it seems like its my right
[03:43] <mysterioso> not tryin to be a bully or anything
[03:43] <mysterioso> just curious
[03:43] <mysterioso> and humurous
[03:44] <nalioth> ##topical ##channels ##are ##named ##like ##so
[03:44] <mysterioso> yeah just read that
[03:45] <nalioth> #project #channels #are #named #thusly
[03:45] <mysterioso> so who do i actually get permission from?
[03:48] <mysterioso> how do I get permission to create the channel #ubuntu-banned?
[19:21] <jpatrick> jussi01: yo
[19:21] <jussi01> hei
[20:35] <jpatrick> no0tic: having fun? :)
[20:35] <no0tic> jpatrick, no.
[20:36] <no0tic> jpatrick, connection works, it seems to have a problem with routing http
[20:36] <no0tic> and other protocols
[20:36] <no0tic> irc works perfectly
[20:36] <jpatrick> ah, odd..
[20:42] <no0tic> jpatrick, odder, some sites work others no
[20:43] <jpatrick> dns problem?
[20:43] <no0tic> no
[20:43] <no0tic> smtp, pop, ssh work
[20:43] <no0tic> dig works fine
[20:43] <no0tic> ping too


[15:32] <vish> hyperair: hei , did you see the ppa for the notification area icon bug?
[15:32] <vish> seems to be pointing at gnome-panel again ;p
[15:32] <hyperair> vish: what PPA?
[15:32] <hyperair> vish: the rgba gtk+ one?
[15:33] <vish> hyperair: https://launchpad.net/~cyfex/+archive/ppa
[15:33] <hyperair> vish: eh exactly what's in that gnome-panel package?
[15:35] <vish> hyperair: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/banshee/+bug/403135/comments/175
[15:37] <hyperair> lulz ubot fail
[15:38] <hyperair> vish: ohoho. is that so?
[15:38] <hyperair> --with-in-process-applets
[15:38] <hyperair> well i've always thought gnome-panel was a piece of crap for having everything as an individual process >_>
[15:38] <vish> heh ;p
[15:39] <hyperair> but yes it's worth a try indeed =p
[15:39] <hyperair> how come gtkstatusicon successfully works around this bug, though?
[15:39] <hyperair> or am i getting something wrong and this is the workaround instead
[15:39] <vish> no idea..
[15:53] <hyperair> vish: have you tried it yourself?
[15:54] <hyperair> that gnome-panel seems outdated, i'm going to try the mentioned fix on a local gnome-panel
[15:54] <hyperair> it could very well explain why so many of my gnome-panel applets fail at being transparent when the background colour is changed.
[16:18]  * hyperair runs sbuild
[16:57] <hyperair> vish: IT'S FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIXED!!!
[16:58] <hyperair> vish: do i get to mark everything as invalid and point fingers at gnome-panel now?
[17:03] <vish> hyperair: woot!  i was thinking of re-opening the gnome-panel task , but thought better to ask seb128 first
[17:04] <hyperair> yes, better.


[00:12] <Omnifrog> Ubik, https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/05/att-is-blocking-cloudflares-privacy-focused-dns-calls-it-an-accident/
[00:12] <Omnifrog> maybe this?
[00:40] <Unit193> Wow.
[13:44] <wrst> it is always an "accident"


[02:02] <TheMuso> ./c
[07:32] <Silicium> ReiserFS: For when you need to partition your wife. :D
[17:34] <xthatrox> i just did an upgrade from breezy to hardy (yes, i know i know) and actually succeeded... except for one thing...  the new SCSI system for naming drives has a problem.  sdb1 is not mounted or busy, yet it cannot be mounted... giving an error saying that it is possibly busy.  I belive that I may just need to reconfigure the scsi device-mapper... does anyone know how to do that?
[17:40] <xthatrox> it thinks the drive is already mounted
[19:57] <CIA-1> cdrom-detect: cjwatson * r422 ubuntu/debian/ (63 files in 2 dirs): merge from Debian 1.27
[20:06] <CIA-1> cdrom-detect: cjwatson * r423 ubuntu/debian/ (cdrom-detect.templates changelog):
[20:06] <CIA-1> cdrom-detect: * Set cdrom/suite default to intrepid.
[20:06] <CIA-1> cdrom-detect: * Drop edgy from cdrom/suite Choices, since it's now unsupported.
[20:08] <evand> hrm, du -cb /rofs; du -cb /target should be the same (for copy_all), right?
[20:09] <evand> err -sb
[20:09] <evand> yeah, I'm probably missing something obvious.
[20:09]  * evand digs
[21:07] <tmmoyer> Is there documentation anywhere (other than the debian-installer wiki) on how to build a custom kernel for the installer? I need to add some functionality for a project I am working on, and the only documentation I have seen for building custom installer kernels is on the debian-installer wiki and is not very helpful
[22:04] <cjwatson> tmmoyer: (I have to go to bed in a moment, but) the relevant difference between Debian and Ubuntu kernels is that we consolidate the kernel-udeb-building steps into the regular linux source package; start out with the Ubuntu source package, modify it as needed, and build that in the usual way you'd build any Debian package, and udebs will be among the output
[22:04] <cjwatson> s
[22:04] <cjwatson> then the rest of the process is essentially the same as for Debian, provided that you work with Ubuntu source packages at each step rather than Debian
[22:36] <tmmoyer> okay thanks


[05:47] <SwedeMike> win 2
[07:33] <om26er> Hello! Anyone one zesty see this http://i.imgur.com/cLN4NSS.png ?


[05:05] <pepe> hello there
[05:05] <pepe> i need help
[05:05] <nhandler> pepe: With what?
[05:05] <pepe> I just installed xubuntu 10.10 and Teamviewer
[05:06] <pepe> when i launch teamviewer it gives me an error, says that i need to change the X server bit depth to 24 bits
[05:06] <nhandler> pepe: You might want to try #xubuntu for help
[05:06] <pepe> nobody answers there