[01:13] <Riddell> http://www.osdir.com/Article5089.phtml Kubuntu app of the week
[09:26] <JRe> hi
[11:26] <Riddell> JRe: HI
[11:27] <JRe> hi
[11:28] <JRe> Bu the way i have done things to the package manager project
[11:28] <JRe> tell me when you have time we'll talk about it
[11:33] <Riddell> JRe: I have some time now
[11:33] <Riddell> I may have some time next week during the conference
[03:06] <Riddell> haggai: I keep getting admin e-mails for kubuntu-bugs but I've no idea what the password is and I never got an initial admin welcome e-mail
[07:31] <zyga> hello
[07:31] <zyga> I'd like to know if someone could help me address k3b isue
[07:31] <zyga> issue


[01:08] <kubutech> hi
[01:09] <kubutech> im new to kubuntu
[01:09] <kubutech> lost my plasma window panel on desktop can i ge tthat back?
[01:10] <kubutech> can't seem to find it-how to get it back on the desktop like it was when i finished the installation?
[03:29] <ArkaneCow> hmmm so if i install kubuntu 14.10 plasma 5 beta, can i upgrade later to the main releases? or is kubuntu 14.10 plasma 5 beta strictly for previewing purposes?
[03:30] <ArkaneCow> umm anyone? :S
[04:43] <branyon> join #1
[04:43] <branyon> #join 1
[05:13] <kubuntu_> ciao
[05:14] <il_cartaio> ciao a tutti
[05:22] <SporkWitch> after a fresh install of 14.04, i'm intermittently receiving a notice that an application (which it doesn't name) is repeatedly trying to access the wallet and that it might be malicious in nature.  the first of these was within a few minutes of the first boot.  what is a likely culprit for this, also, where can i find logs indicating access attempts? (also worth noting that i've yet to receive a
[05:23] <SporkWitch> single request for me to enter the master password; maybe something related to entering account info in kontact before i was prompted to set up the wallet?)
[08:59] <Mmike> Hello!
[09:00] <Mmike> Is there a way to configure muon in such way so that it actually shows packages being downloaded, and installed?
[10:19] <BluesKaj> 'Morning all
[11:00] <ljunggren> Hi, someone knows of a ppa with breeze themes?
[11:01] <BluesKaj> plasma5, ljunggren
[11:05] <ljunggren> BluesKaj: is that a ppa?
[11:05] <ljunggren> or you meant like *plasma5
[11:06] <SaEeDIRHA> hey guys , how can i have an individual  panel for my each Virtual Desktop ?
[11:06] <BluesKaj> ljunggren, most likely , i tried plasma 5 daily build on 14.10, but it's not ready for general usage
[11:07] <SaEeDIRHA> atm all the virtual desktops show the same panel and when i have an application open its visible in all panels of my virtual desktops
[11:08] <ljunggren> BluesKaj: i know, thats why im trying to theme kde4
[11:09] <SaEeDIRHA> well , no worries , found out how
[11:10] <BluesKaj> well afaik it's meant for 14.10 , dunno if it will run on 14.04
[11:10] <ljunggren> BluesKaj: it's just themes
[11:10] <ljunggren> BluesKaj: like this http://www.iwillfolo.com/2014/07/give-kde-plasma-5-looks-based-breeze-free-customization/
[11:10] <BluesKaj> probly freeze
[11:11] <ljunggren> freeze?
[11:11] <BluesKaj> ljunggren, ask in #kde
[11:12] <ljunggren> BluesKaj: they told me to ask in #kubuntu
[11:12] <BluesKaj> heh
[11:12] <ljunggren> since ppa is ubuntu specific lol
[11:12] <ljunggren> *buntu
[11:12] <ljunggren> but anyway, there dosent seem to exist a ppa of it so whatever, i just install it oldschool
[11:12] <BluesKaj> it might be found in kde-look
[11:12] <ljunggren> thanks for the help
[11:13] <BluesKaj> ljunggren, kde-look
[11:13] <BluesKaj> http://kde-look.org/
[11:14] <ljunggren> i know thanks, i was just wondering if anyone knew of a ppa that gathers them
[11:15] <BluesKaj> check launchpad
[11:18] <BluesKaj> ljunggren, or here, http://kde-look.org/content/search.php?PHPSESSID=04f7c602fccbf029c321ba035afa413e
[12:10] <ShalokShalom_> hi there :)
[12:11] <ShalokShalom_> how is the kubuntu logo called, on boot and shutdown ?
[12:11] <ikonia> plymouth
[12:11] <ShalokShalom_> thanks
[12:37] <allon> Hi
[12:37] <allon> I have two kubuntus on my pc a 10.04 and a 12.04
[12:38] <allon> I would like to replace the 10.04 by a 14.04
[12:39] <allon> I am in the installation program
[12:40] <allon> I can see my two ubuntu in the graphic bar
[12:41] <allon> I can see that my ubuntu 10.04 is on sda1 and my 12.04 on sda6
[12:42] <BluesKaj> allon, why not upgrade the 12.04 to 14.04 , much easier over the internet rather than having to do a clean install
[12:43] <allon> but from this point I can not click in the click box close to sda1
[12:44] <BluesKaj> then upgrade the 10.04 to 13.04 if you must
[12:44] <BluesKaj> err 10.04 to 12.04
[12:44] <allon> because all my zork is on the 12.04 and I don t want to loose it
[12:44] <BluesKaj> zork
[12:44] <BluesKaj> ?
[12:45] <allon> work
[12:45] <allon> french keyboard
[12:46] <allon> internet upgrade is safe?
[12:46] <allon> I did it a couple of years ago and it killed everything
[12:47] <allon> I thouht a clean install would be easier
[12:49] <BluesKaj> allon, do you have / and /home partitions?
[12:52] <allon> From Kubuntu installer I can only see /dev/sda /dev/sda1 etc
[12:53] <BluesKaj> allon, use manual partitioning
[12:53] <allon> I am in the manual partitionning par
[12:53] <allon> I am in the manual partitionning part
[12:53] <allon> I have copyed all my data to an external drive
[12:54] <allon> so I am ready to delete everything from the 10.04
[12:54] <BluesKaj> ok what's on sda?
[12:55] <allon> nothing on sda 10.04 on sda1 12.04 on sda6 swap on sda5
[12:59] <BluesKaj> so you have no /home partitions ...recommend you create separate / and /home
[12:59] <allon> ok
[12:59] <allon> but I also have no place anymore on my disk
[13:00] <allon> should I delete sda1?
[13:00] <BluesKaj> if you don't need 10.04 then yes
[13:01] <allon> I don t need it
[13:02] <allon> ok I delete it fro; the partition screen
[13:03] <allon> Ok now I have 186Megs free
[13:03] <allon> Create a nez partitionM
[13:03] <allon> ?
[13:03] <BluesKaj> now create a new / partition there , make it about 15G
[13:03] <allon> Create a new partition?
[13:04] <allon> Use as ?
[13:04] <allon> ext4?
[13:04] <BluesKaj> ext4 yes
[13:05] <allon> mount point / or /home ?
[13:07] <BluesKaj> allon / first then resize to 15G , use /home with the remainder
[13:09] <BluesKaj>  / will probly be sda1 , then /home will be sda2
[13:10] <mcstr_> anyone knows where can i find the website template for ubuntu/kubuntu?
[13:10] <mcstr_> or any other good template where you can see on the first look that its linux/software//distro related
[13:12] <allon> so now I have /dev/sda1 ext4 /home 14998MB
[13:13] <BluesKaj> mcstr_, http://www.kubuntu.org/ dunno if the template is available tho
[13:14] <BluesKaj> allon the / shoud be 14998MB, /home should be much larger
[13:15] <allon> ok I see I change it
[13:15] <allon> so I assign the rest of the free space to my /home?
[13:16] <allon> its about 170 megs
[13:18] <BluesKaj> 170 mb is too small for anything 170G perhaps ?
[13:18] <mcstr_> BluesKaj i can't see any link to a template there but afair there was once somewhere the ubuntu/kubuntu templates for download
[13:18] <allon> 170G sorry
[13:19] <allon> Will Kubuntu be written to /
[13:19] <BluesKaj> ok allon then that's fine , did you create the /home mountpoint ?
[13:20] <BluesKaj> yes kubuntu will be written to /
[13:20] <allon> Yes I just did
[13:20] <allon> it is sda7 now
[13:20] <BluesKaj> then you're ready to install
[13:21] <allon> ok I have my button Install now
[13:22] <allon> but where do I tell him to install to sda1?
[13:22] <BluesKaj> allon, ok
[13:22] <BluesKaj> you already did
[13:23] <BluesKaj> by  creating the / and /home mountpoints
[13:23] <allon> oh great
[13:23] <BluesKaj> kubuntu will now install to /
[13:24] <allon> started !!!!!!
[13:25] <allon> great help
[13:25] <allon> I cqn continue to develop a bit of gcompris
[13:26] <allon> I could not since a few weeks use muon, it would not find packages
[13:27] <allon> I tryed to change repositories to old_archive or something like this, worked for some packages but not for phpmyadmin for exemple
[13:27] <allon> so I decided to jump to a new version
[13:28] <BluesKaj> allon, from now on if you wish to upgrade to the next OS release you just install it to / and /home will still have your config files and settings for the default apps
[13:29] <BluesKaj> and it's much faster if you need to reinstall for some reason
[13:29] <allon> this is great yes
[13:29] <allon> and by magic my keyboard went to french layout !!!
[13:29] <allon> much easier
[13:31] <allon> do you know if grub will update itself?
[13:33] <BluesKaj> yes it wiil, right at the finish of the install
[13:52] <allon> I am back but no 14.04 in my grub!
[13:52] <allon> only the old 10.04 and 12.04 is working perfectly
[13:53] <lordievader> Good afternoon.
[13:54] <BluesKaj> allon, odd , did you update grub?
[13:54] <allon> no but I think I made a mistake
[13:55] <allon> before I started to put the / and the /home
[13:56] <allon> I set boot to /sda6 because there was no sda1 anymore
[13:56] <BluesKaj> look at your partitioner , you should see a / and a /home partition if you installed 14.04 correctly
[13:57] <BluesKaj> you edited a boot flag?
[13:58] <allon> just midified the choice in the drop box in kubuntu manual installer
[13:59] <BluesKaj> did you set the mountpoints in sda  by using the change button in the partitioner ?
[13:59] <allon> yes
[13:59] <allon> and I set it to sda6 which is the 12.04
[13:59] <allon> that was maybe my mistake
[14:00] <allon> I am in gparted and I can see the partition which correspond to / and /home
[14:00] <allon> no problem there
[14:00] <BluesKaj> are they on sda1 and probly 7 now
[14:01] <allon> yes you are right
[14:01] <BluesKaj> ok run sudo update-grub in the terminal ..see what comes up
[14:02] <allon> Ubuntu 14.04.1 LTS (14.04) trouvé sur /dev/sda1
[14:02] <allon> fait
[14:02] <allon> :)
[14:02] <allon> I guess I just have to reboot now?
[14:02] <BluesKaj> bon!
[14:02] <allon> parfait
[14:03] <allon> I reboot
[14:03] <BluesKaj> hehe, no need to reboot
[14:11] <allon> Under 14.04 :) :) :)
[14:11] <allon> and managed to install pidgin
[14:11] <BluesKaj> :)
[14:12] <allon> Really thanks a lots, you spared me hours of forums reading
[14:12] <shattingduck> hello!
[14:12] <BluesKaj> glad to help allon
[14:13] <allon> Now a bit of data reinstallation
[14:14] <shattingduck> I h ave following problem: when I have 2 external harddisks connected to a pc running kubuntu 14.4 and try to copy 680 GB using the dolphin (copy and paste from one window to the other) after some minutes the source drive is unmounted and the files cannot be copied anymore. when I then abort the copying operation I can remount the drive..  same things happens when I use cp -r
[14:14] <shattingduck> so i am trying to copy from one external hdd to the other
[14:14] <shattingduck> what could be the problem
[14:16] <shattingduck> anyone here?
[14:18] <BluesKaj> shattingduck, and your permissions are properly set to full control for your user on both drives in share?
[14:18] <shattingduck> yes
[14:18] <shattingduck> the copying starts without problems... but doesn't last for long
[14:19] <BluesKaj> also make sure you have samba installed even if you use the network folder option
[14:19] <shattingduck> they are both connected through usb.. why would I need samba?
[14:20] <BluesKaj> exactly the question I asked, but after installing samba i had no more issues
[14:21] <BluesKaj> even tho i don't use the samba gui
[14:22] <shattingduck> you had the same problem?
[14:22] <BluesKaj> yup
[14:22] <shattingduck> hmmm....
[14:23] <shattingduck> these linux distros still have their quirks... what I like about kubuntu though is that it doesn't come to a stall during big file copying operations.. I have linux mint installed and the entire system is slowed because of it... it has to do with the prirority dolphin gets in linux mint. but how do I change it?
[14:23] <BluesKaj> think it's an smb config problem that samba seems to fix , that's all I can come up with
[14:24] <shattingduck> well there are soms samba-VFS modules being loaded.. maybe that does something
[14:25] <BluesKaj> did you check /var/log/syslog for time out errors ?
[14:26] <shattingduck> no
[14:26] <shattingduck> you mean on the linux mint ?
[14:26] <BluesKaj> not that a time out error will you much
[14:26] <BluesKaj> tell
[14:27] <BluesKaj> on whatever OS you use to transfer the files
[14:28] <shattingduck> well .... I will look into it
[14:47] <shattingduck> I still have this problem where the system tray does not show if the disk is mounted or not.. it always shows it the same, whether it's mounted or not
[14:50] <Ab3L> hi. are you having muon crashes while installing/uninstalling applications?
[14:53] <shattingduck> no
[14:54] <shattingduck> try synaptics instead...
[14:55] <Ab3L> there's a segmentation fault
[14:56] <Ab3L> it seems to be a known bug, but it affects me only from today.
[14:56] <shattingduck> restarting?
[14:59] <Ab3L> do you mean resatart the system?
[14:59] <shattingduck> yes
[15:00] <Ab3L> i'll try. thx
[15:31] <tmlp> hi,is there a way to fix the problem with ethernet port with atheros ar8161
[15:35] <tmlp> join #ubuntu
[15:35] <tmlp> join #ubuntufuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
 hi all. i am trying to start kwallet but i am getting the following error http://paste.ubuntu.com/8197906/ . Any idea to make this application to be strated and loaded on xubuntu 12.04? I googled this issue already but i didnt find any appropriate answer.
[16:18] <SporkWitch> so when i boot the kubuntu 14.04 livecd i get the shiny Kubuntu name/logo splash while it loads up.  once i install, though, i get this bland text terminal while it's starting.  any idea why that might be?  there doesn't appear to be any errors occurring...
[16:19] <soee> SporkWitch: are you using propriety drivers ?
[16:19] <BluesKaj> SporkWitch, no lightdm login page ?
[16:20] <SporkWitch> soee: yup, the recommended nvidia 331's; so that's the cause?
[16:20] <soee> SporkWitch: yes
[16:20] <SporkWitch> BluesKaj: no, the Kubuntu[logo] splash before lightdm comes up
[16:20] <SporkWitch> gotcha; any way to bring it back while still using them? or is it just gonna be that little thing that annoys me? lol
[16:20] <soee> BluesKaj: plymounth
[16:22] <BluesKaj> yeah plymouth. ok what about a VT/TTY , can you get a shell. SporkWitch ?
[16:23] <SporkWitch> BluesKaj: oh the system is fully functional, it's purely an aesthetic thing
[16:23] <SporkWitch> BluesKaj: just while starting up it shows me text and debug info, as opposed to the shiny Kubuntu logo; it's hardly important, i just liked the shiny splash while booting lol
[16:25] <SporkWitch> will look into plymouth after this install finishes (i borked kontact and the related apps hard while trying to copy this laptop's settings to the desktop, and it's still fresh enough it's easier to just nuke it than to try to figure it out lol)
[16:26] <BluesKaj> ok SporkWitch , I was seeing some artifacts too a while back on 14.04, but I'm running 14.10 which also shows some strange notifications and still loads fine
[16:27] <SporkWitch> BluesKaj: yeah, soee is saying it's basically normal behaviour when using closed-source drivers, which would explain why i see it on the desktop but not the laptop
[16:27] <SporkWitch> had the same situation in 12.04 as well (I only use LTS releases on these two machines, since i use them for uni and don't want to have to waste time fixing things when i have assignments due)
[16:29] <BluesKaj> right, I'm a home user so I fool with prereleases a lot
[16:30] <soee> if i remember it right, it is nvidias fault and some bug in their drivers
[16:30] <SporkWitch> makes sense; least the system behaves fine, just a single graphical nuisance that i only see once every couple months when i actually reboot the thing lol
[16:31] <deafpool> hey all
[16:31] <deafpool> i have a question about something that showed up in my terminal after an apt-get install, i'm not sure if anyone can help me get to the bottom of it
[16:32] <SporkWitch> don't ask to ask, mate
[16:32] <deafpool> roger
[16:32] <deafpool> so i installed kdevelop via apt get
[16:33] <deafpool> but when i was going through my history later, this showed up one line before sudo apt-get install kdevelop:
[16:33] <deafpool> kdevelop! -s {d07736be-55c1-4791-8ab5-a3b6f0280603}
[16:33] <deafpool> i didn't input that into my terminal, so why did it appear in my history before
[16:33] <deafpool> 'sudo apt get install kdevelop'
[16:36] <SporkWitch> seems like it would just be a package id; a lot of times when you go to install something you're just listing the name of a virtual package, that links to the latest version or a collection of others
[16:36] <SporkWitch> also, \n is not punctuation
[16:37] <soee> its more like session hash
[16:37] <deafpool> I see, thanks! It just seemed strange to see it in my terminal commands since I didn't put it in myself. Kind of a linux noob.
[16:37] <deafpool> So would it be normal to see something like that in my history again after an apt-get install?
[16:43] <BluesKaj> deafpool, one is bound to see all manner of strange notifications in the terminal when installing packages, don't become too concerned if you don't understand them
[16:44] <deafpool> BluesKaj, yeah, I know - but it still seems strange to see it in the bash history
[17:16] <josePHPagoda> Hello everyone!
[17:16] <josePHPagoda> What's the recommended way to add a custom entry to my PATH for a specific user?
[17:22] <josePHPagoda> i see that I can use /etc/environment
[17:22] <josePHPagoda> but the folder I want in my path is dependant on the user that is logged in
[17:54] <krise> hi, how can i enable java in firefox , i can see that i have java installed but can not find the place where i can enable it
[18:04] <krise> anybody?
[18:04] <krise> somebody?
[18:05] <krise> Nobody ??
[19:21] <tobiasBora> Hello,
[19:21] <tobiasBora> I've a copy problem with KDE
[19:22] <tobiasBora> Sometimes the process of copy is REALLY slow, I need 8 days to copy 70Go...
[19:22] <tobiasBora> While in console I don't have any problem.
[19:23] <tobiasBora> The speed is written "0 o/s" in the information window
[19:23] <tobiasBora> Do you know how I could solve that ?
[19:24] <rohlik> to máš blbý...
[20:09] <allon> Hi
[20:09] <allon> I upgraded this afternoon from kubuntu 12.04 to 14.04
[20:10] <allon> I can see that lots has been done, I am very impressed
[20:10] <allon> I just have one small details which bother me
[20:10] <allon> I can not find phpmyadmin in muon like before
[20:11] <soee> it should be there i think
[20:11] <soee> im on 14.10beta and i have it here
[20:11] <lordievader> !info phpmyadmin
[20:11] <allon> I am going to "Découvreur Muon" soory in french
[20:11] <lordievader> allon: sudo apt-get install phpmyadmin
[20:12] <soee> do you have Universe checked in sources ?
[20:12] <allon> I think so
[20:13] <allon> I look again
[20:13] <allon> yes it is checked
[20:13] <allon> what I do is that I type phpmyadmin in the search area top rigth
[20:14] <allon> but nothing is proposed
[20:14] <lordievader> allon: Are you using the Muon Discoverer thingie?
[20:14] <soee> type in concole: apt-cache policy phpmyadmin
[20:15] <lordievader> Since that one does not show individual packages.
[20:15] <lordievader> The Muon Packagemanger does though, if it still exists.
[20:16] <soee> oh i thought we are tlaking about Muon
[20:16] <BluesKaj> allon, install muon itself , that muon discover app is klunky
[20:16] <lordievader> soee: Muon has a few different counter-parts ;)
[20:16] <soee> yup
[20:17] <BluesKaj> muon is still available, using it as a reference here on 14.10
[20:17] <lordievader> BluesKaj: The package manager?
[20:18] <BluesKaj> yes plain old muon
[20:18] <BluesKaj> sudo apt-get install muon , allon
[20:23] <allon> sorry was gone (baby emergency ;) )
[20:24] <allon> ok this is what I wanted to ask, in 12.04 there was two muon, one like the one I have there and one much more powerful
[20:24] <allon> so this is the same there
[20:24] <lordievader> allon: The powerfull one is probably the package manager BluesKaj is talking about.
[20:25] <BluesKaj> lordievader, no doubt :)
[20:33] <allon> my muon is back :)
[20:33] <allon> thanks for the help I would not have searched for it
[20:33] <allon> it should really be there by default
[20:36] <BluesKaj> it's optional i believe, like a lot of my favourite old kubuntu apps, but I give thanks that most are still available
[20:37] <BluesKaj> like konversation for example
[20:41] <allon> My Konversation did not works so well on 12.04
[20:41] <allon> I had to move to pidgin
[20:41] <allon> maybe it is better now
[20:42] <lordievader> Bitlbee :D
[20:44] <BluesKaj> allon, running konverstion 4.14.0 and it's just fine
[20:44] <allon> I will try it then, my problem was about the notifications, they did not always worked
[20:45] <allon> which was annoying
[20:48] <BluesKaj> allon, think I ould use quassel before pidgin , but it depands on the chat protocols you want to use
[20:48] <BluesKaj> would
[20:49] <allon> I only want to use irc
[20:49] <allon> I am out of msn skype etc
[20:49] <allon> and I feel free :)
[20:52] <BluesKaj> konversation is still maintained and new versions are available periodically
[20:52] <soee_> i couldnt get used to quaselle, so iv been using x-chat for a while but than moved to konversation and im happy with it since then :)
[20:58] <SporkWitch> what could cause a program to run fine from a terminal, but not even start when run from the kicker menu? (specifically Steam in this case; "steam" at a terminal works, launching from the kicker gives me launch feedback but never opens steam)
[21:13] <BluesKaj> SporkWitch, permissions maybe, using kdesudo to launch ?
[21:14] <SporkWitch> BluesKaj: shouldn't need it, never has before (even on this same machine, freshly installed from the same disk, before i nuked it and did another fresh install today)
[21:18] <BluesKaj> SporkWitch, understood
[21:18]  * BluesKaj <--- not a gamer
[21:19] <SporkWitch> BluesKaj: that's just what's so weird about it.  literally "steam" from the terminal works 100% fine.  a kicker entry of "steam" or "/usr/games/steam" starts it downloading the initial updates, then it disappears as if it exited cleanly when it hits about 25MB/~250
[21:19] <SporkWitch> BluesKaj: after letting it run and update from the terminal, we switch from still running fine in terminal, to NOTHING occurring when launched from the kicker
[21:19] <SporkWitch> i can't figure out what it sees as being any different
[21:19] <SporkWitch> and i've never run into the issue before, with anything
[21:20] <SporkWitch> (normally if it doesn't launch from the kicker, it at least gives me error output while STILL not running from the terminal)
[21:20] <BluesKaj> SporkWitch, maybe check the logs , hate to state the obvious but...
[21:20] <SporkWitch> BluesKaj: i can't find any :'(
[21:20] <SporkWitch> BluesKaj: and there's never anything wrong with stating the obvious; the obvious is always the first to be overlooked
[21:21] <SporkWitch> plenty of superusers that miss a cable and think they already plugged it in :)
[21:21] <BluesKaj>  /var/log/syslog ?
[21:21] <BluesKaj> yeah been there
[21:21] <SporkWitch> no mention of steam in it :(
[21:21] <BluesKaj> ok
[21:23] <SporkWitch> ah well, flatmate needs a ride, will come at it with fresh eyes in a bit
[21:23] <SporkWitch> thanks for the advice
[21:26] <BluesKaj> SporkWitch, look in  ~/.local/share/Steam ~/


[19:29] <mark06> can anyone please delete the references to non-existing ppas here? https://launchpad.net/~renatosilva/+related-packages
[19:30] <mark06> they only appear for me, I guess it needs to be manually deleted because there is no button for that
[20:32] <mark06> also, this list is buggy for public access https://launchpad.net/~renatosilva/+ppa-packages
[20:33] <mark06> it says "1-6 results" but there is none


[00:20] <perrito666> wallyworld: btw I began using quassel, it sucks that they dont support ubuntu indicator for messages
[00:20] <wallyworld> yeah, maybe htere's a plugin, not sure
[00:21] <perrito666> doesnt seem to implement plugins
[00:22] <perrito666> but having the server in amazon works better than bip
[00:29] <thumper> wallyworld: re bug 1236471
[00:29] <mup> Bug #1236471: Sporadic test failure w/ bot inside Uniter: FilterSuite.TestUnitRemoval <test-failure> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1236471>
[00:29] <thumper> wallyworld: it seems to be just utopic
[00:29] <thumper> is there someone running utopic that could test it?
[00:29] <wallyworld> oh joy
[00:29] <wallyworld> i can
[00:29] <thumper> works fine here
[00:29] <wallyworld> sigh
[00:29] <wallyworld> i'll try it now
[00:30] <thumper> wallyworld: although a key indicator to the problem could be the comment on line 111
[00:31] <wallyworld> thumper: works fine for me on utopic
[00:31] <thumper> wallyworld: reading the code...
[00:31] <thumper> wallyworld: it seems that sometimes destroy removes the unit, and sometimes it just sets it to dying
[00:32] <thumper> smells like a race condition
[00:32] <thumper> the filter that we check dies seems to not find the unit
[00:32] <wallyworld> yeah, sadly
[00:32] <thumper> so it feels like in that case, the doc was removed
[00:32] <thumper> as opposed to just set to dying
[00:33] <thumper> wallyworld: reading the comment in state/unit.go Destroy method
[00:33] <wallyworld> that makes sense having now read the code
[00:33] <thumper> wallyworld: it seems that once destroy has been called, we can't depend on it being there
[00:33] <thumper> so the test looks fucked
[00:33] <thumper> or the filter is screwed
[00:33] <thumper> as it expects it to be there
[00:33] <thumper> and it has goine
[00:33] <thumper> perhaps the test should handle the missing unit error
[00:34] <thumper> I bet what is happening
[00:34] <thumper> is that the remove is being executed before the filter go routine starts
[00:34] <wallyworld> thumper: this comment
[00:34] <wallyworld> / Ensure we get a signal on f.Dead()
[00:34] <wallyworld> seems to imply the test expects the unit to be Dead
[00:35] <wallyworld> but it's either still dying or already removed as you say
[00:35] <thumper> seems like the test needs to ensure that the filter go routine has started
[00:35] <thumper> and it probably doesn't
[00:35] <thumper> nope
[00:35] <thumper> it doesn't
[00:35] <thumper> there is the race
[00:37] <thumper> filter.go line 281 will be where it errors
[00:38]  * thumper grunts
[00:38] <thumper> wallyworld: perhaps the best way to fix this is to have NewFilter not return until the goroutine for the loop has hit a ready state?
[00:38] <thumper> wallyworld: thoughts?
[00:39] <wallyworld> thumper: i'm just reading the filter code and in various places there's this: IsCodeNotFoundOrCodeUnauthorized
[00:39] <wallyworld> so it seems that the filter can expect the unit to not be there
[00:39] <wallyworld> and in that case, it returns an ErrTerminateAGent which is what the test wants
[00:40] <wallyworld> do you see what i mean?
[00:40] <wallyworld> in the loop()
[00:41] <wallyworld> oh, i just read what you posted above
[00:41] <wallyworld> let me look at that
[00:42] <menn0> wallyworld, thumper: fyi I have made little progress with bug 1409827
[00:42] <mup> Bug #1409827: TestSetMembersErrorIsNotFatal fails <ci> <intermittent-failure> <regression> <test-failure> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1409827>
[00:42] <thumper> wallyworld: but you can see from the bug, the error is a "not found" one
[00:42] <menn0> wallyworld, thumper: mainly due to distractions at home
[00:42] <wallyworld> menn0: i hate those tests
[00:43] <thumper> wallyworld: because it is a params.Error not an rpc.Error
[00:43] <menn0> wallyworld, thumper: I am questioning why it's a CI blocker though. it fails far less often than the other ones you're currently looking at
[00:43] <menn0> wallyworld, thumper: I can only find one recent failure
[00:43] <wallyworld> menn0: maybe sinzui can answer
[00:45] <menn0> wallyworld, thumper, sinzui: it obviously needs to be dealt with, I just don't know if it's CI blocker material
[00:45] <menn0> wallyworld, thumper, sinzui: continuing with it now anyway
[00:46] <wallyworld> ty
[00:47] <thumper> wallyworld: I think I know why it isn't being caught
[00:47] <wallyworld> thumper: so the test log shows the CharmURL() api call failing with a params.NotFound error but this error should have been caught in the defer and changed to ErrTerminateAgent
[00:47] <thumper> wallyworld: because if any of the errors are traced or wrapped, then they don't match the call
[00:48] <thumper> maybe...
[00:48] <wallyworld> thumper: because ?
[00:48] <wallyworld> if err, _ := err.(rpc.ErrorCoder); err != nil {
[00:48] <wallyworld> err could be wrapped?
[00:49] <thumper> I'm thinking it is a possibility
[00:49] <thumper> however...
[00:49] <thumper> no...
[00:49] <thumper> because the resulting error is a params.Error
[00:51] <thumper> wallyworld: I don't see how this could fail... :(
[00:51] <wallyworld> sigh, me either, but we might me missing something subtle not being familiar with the code
[00:59] <wallyworld> thumper: if i comment out the deferred error handling to convert a not found to a errterminateagent, i can get it to fail just like in the test
[01:00] <wallyworld> so that does suggest that that error handling being used is critical to making the test pass, and i can't see how the error could be escaping
[01:01] <thumper> looking at the bug test log
[01:02] <thumper> [LOG] 67.77366 DEBUG juju.rpc.jsoncodec -> {"RequestId":12,"Response":
[01:02] <thumper> indicates that line 320 is the return statement in question
[01:02] <thumper> but I agree, can't see why it wasn't chagned
[01:02] <wallyworld> thumper: sill, i do think we need an errors.Cause() instead of a straight cast tp rpc.Error in the params error code stuff
[01:03] <wallyworld> rpc.ErrorCoder i mean
[01:04] <thumper> while I generally agree
[01:04] <thumper> I'm trying to work out this failure
[01:04] <thumper> and this isn't it...
[01:04] <thumper> api/uniter/unit.go line 446
[01:05]  * thumper thinks...
[01:05] <thumper> hang on...
[01:05] <wallyworld> sure, that was a general cooment
[01:06] <wallyworld> not for this fix
[01:06] <thumper> fucker
[01:06] <thumper> ...
[01:06] <thumper> damn it
[01:06]  * thumper looks deeps
[01:07] <wallyworld> result.Error won't be caught maybe
[01:07] <wallyworld> i saw that line before and assumed it would be caught
[01:08] <wallyworld> oh wait, yes it will
[01:08] <thumper> wallyworld: I need a reference to a recent failure
[01:09] <thumper> result.Error is a pointer
[01:09] <thumper> and the *params.Error does match the interface
[01:09] <thumper> we need to see the recent failure
[01:09] <thumper> looking at modern code for an old failure is a waste of time
[01:09] <thumper> too much can change
[01:09] <wallyworld> thumper: attached to the bug
[01:09] <wallyworld> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/190620335/filter-failure.log
[01:10] <thumper> wallyworld: the 19th of November isn't recent
[01:10] <wallyworld> thumper: looks like a wrapping issue
[01:10] <thumper> ah, that one is a wrapping issue
[01:10] <wallyworld> obtained *errors.Err = &errors.Err
[01:11] <thumper> haha
[01:11] <thumper> yeah, that is one
[01:11] <wallyworld> so maybe we should do my previous suggestion
[01:11] <thumper> I'll fix this
[01:11] <wallyworld> awesome
[01:15] <menn0> wallyworld, thumper: I think I see a potential data race relating to bug 1409827
[01:15] <mup> Bug #1409827: TestSetMembersErrorIsNotFatal fails <ci> <intermittent-failure> <regression> <test-failure> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1409827>
[01:16] <menn0> mustNext in worker/peergrouper/worker_test.go
[01:16] <menn0> the return value is set in a separate goroutine
[01:17] <menn0> isn't that a no-no?
[01:17] <menn0> thumper: ^
[01:18] <menn0> might not be the source of the test failures but looks fishy
[01:18] <wallyworld> menn0: just in meeting, will look soon
[01:19] <axw> katco: standup?
[01:20] <katco> axw: shoot sorry
[01:21] <thumper> menn0: /me looks
[01:21] <thumper> menn0: which line?
[01:22] <menn0> thumper: from 513 onwards
[01:23] <menn0> thumper: the return value "val" is assigned directly from the goroutine
[01:23] <menn0> thumper: the more I think about it the more I don't think this is the test failure (because if nil was returned we'd see a different kind of failure)
[01:23] <menn0> thumper: but i'm clearing it up anyway
[01:24] <thumper> you could be right
[01:24] <thumper> but we aren't seeing "timeout waiting" are we?
[01:24] <thumper> menn0: it is wrong, but not the source I think
[01:25] <thumper> wallyworld: this bug isn't a critical blocker, but done anyway...
[01:26] <wallyworld> thumper: in meeting, will look in a sec
[01:27] <thumper> wallyworld: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1236471
[01:27] <mup> Bug #1236471: Sporadic test failure w/ bot inside Uniter: FilterSuite.TestUnitRemoval <test-failure> <juju-core:In Progress by thumper> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1236471>
[01:27] <thumper> gah, wrong paste: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/723/diff/#
[01:36] <thumper> axw: test added
[01:36] <axw> thumper: thanks
[01:37]  * thumper wonders if the bot will pick this up
[01:47] <wallyworld> thumper: yay, bot got your change. so i think the SetMembers test is now the only remaining blocker
[01:47] <axw> menn0: I took a look at the test yesterday, it just looked like time sensitivity to me
[01:48] <axw> menn0: if you double that last sleep, it'll fail each time
[01:49] <axw> the sleep durations do not leave a lot of margin for error/jitter/whatever
[01:53] <menn0> axw: totally agree. i'm figuring out how to rewrite it to not be so fragile.
[01:55] <menn0> axw: in fact, checking that retries happen with exponential backup seems somewhat unnecessary
[01:55] <menn0> axw: what do you think about just ensuring that retries are occurring and leaving it at that?
[01:57] <thumper> wallyworld: branch landed, bug updated to fix released
[01:58] <thumper> wallyworld: as it was just a test failure bug
[01:58] <wallyworld> thumper: awesome, thanks
[01:58] <axw> menn0: seems fine to me
[01:58] <axw> menn0: it's a bit of an overkill test
[02:14] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: the patch to fix PortSet was pretty simple
[02:14] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: not that it affects us, but Intersection had the same problem
[02:14] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: anyway, I'm EOD :)
[02:14] <menn0> axw: I have a fix but thought I'd run one other possibility by you
[02:15] <menn0> axw: you don't think there's a possibility that the issue is to do with the way the count variable is being handled?
[02:15] <menn0> axw: it's being updated in another goroutine
[02:15] <axw> menn0: moment
[02:16] <menn0> axw: davecheney tells me that there's no guarantees about how updates will be seen by other goroutines
[02:16] <axw> menn0: yeah, I think that's wrong. it should just return the value on the channel...
[02:16] <axw> menn0: I don't think that's the cause of the failure tho
[02:17] <axw> well, it could be but I think the time sensitivity is more likely
[02:17] <menn0> axw: so do i but i thought i'd run it past you
[02:17] <menn0> axw: anyway, i've removed all the fragile timing checks... i'll have that up for review shortly
[02:18] <axw> cool
[02:18] <axw> menn0: maybe just change the chan bool to a chan struct{bool, interface{}} while you're there? :)
[02:19] <menn0> axw: oh i've done that
[02:19] <axw> great
[02:19] <menn0> axw: but what I meant is the function passed to setErrorFuncFor in TestSetMembersErrorIsNotFatal
[02:19] <menn0> axw: it updates the voyeur with a integer
[02:19] <axw> menn0: oh.. looking
[02:19] <menn0> axw: actually... never mind
[02:20] <menn0> axw: that's fine
[02:20] <menn0> axw: i'm looking too closely
[02:20] <menn0> axw: the variable is only used and updated from one goroutine so there's no issue
[02:20] <axw> yup
[02:26] <menn0> axw: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/725/
[02:26] <axw> looking
[02:26] <menn0> axw: the channel change is a separate PR
[02:30] <menn0> axw: here's the other one: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/726/
[02:34] <menn0> axw: all ok?
[02:35] <axw> menn0: reviewed, I'd prefer if we got rid of any explicit sleeps
[02:35] <axw> lemme know what you think - maybe I'm being too pedantic
[02:37] <axw> menn0: alternatively just get rid of the sleep in the test, since mustNext will wait up to LongWait anyway
[02:39] <menn0> axw: I guess I was wanting to see multiple retries
[02:39] <menn0> axw: but that can be done with multiple mustNext calls
[02:39] <menn0> so i'll do that
[02:40] <axw> menn0: hence the loop in my code, but yes, multiple mustNexts will do that too
[02:44] <waigani> ericsnow: is http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/724 really that big (about 40 files, 5000 lines changed) or has RB gotten confused?
[02:44]  * _thumper_ headdesks
[02:44]  * thumper headdesks
[02:44] <ericsnow> waigani: oops, no it's like 15 lines :)
[02:44] <thumper> yay string constants
[02:45] <thumper> go on, search the codebase for "90168e4c-2f10-4e9c-83c2-feedfacee5a9"
[02:45]  * thumper fixes
[02:45] <waigani> ericsnow: few. I thought, "there goes my afternoon..."
[02:46] <waigani> whoha, that's a lot of feedface
[02:46] <ericsnow> waigani: what you saw is the GCE provider patch (minus +/- 1500 lines of tests we're still writing)
[02:47] <ericsnow> waigani: we'll be splitting that up into multiple review requests though :)
[02:47] <menn0> axw: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/725/ updated
[02:47] <waigani> ericsnow: that would be good, otherwise it's a hell of a patch to review!
[02:48] <ericsnow> waigani: :)
[02:48] <axw> menn0: lgtm, thanks
[02:48] <menn0> axw: sweet. thanks.
[02:49] <menn0> thumper, wallyworld : fix for bug 1409827 merging. is the policy that I can mark the ticket as Fix Released once it's in b/c it's a test only fix?
[02:49] <mup> Bug #1409827: TestSetMembersErrorIsNotFatal fails <ci> <intermittent-failure> <regression> <test-failure> <juju-core:In Progress by menno.smits> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1409827>
[02:50] <thumper> menn0: I think so
[02:50] <wallyworld> menn0: not sure, what tim said
[02:52] <menn0> wallyworld: good answer :-p
[02:56] <wallyworld> yep :-)
[03:02] <thumper> waigani: do you remember where we generate the uuid for new environments?
[03:02] <thumper> waigani: I remember we moved it...
[03:02] <thumper> but can't remember where
[03:03] <waigani> thumper: I think it's actually in util?
[03:03] <thumper> waigani: well, where we assign it into the environ config
[03:03] <waigani> thumper: will look in a sec, hangon
[03:05] <thumper> environs.ensureUUID
[03:05] <thumper> which is in environs.prepare
[03:07] <thumper> hmm...
[03:07] <thumper> ok
[03:09] <waigani> thumper: sorry, did you want me to hunt for anything else now?
[03:09] <thumper> waigani: nope
[03:09] <thumper> got it now
[03:10] <waigani> cool
[03:23] <thumper> damn... how long do these tests take to run?
[03:23] <thumper> geez
[03:24] <anastasiamac> waigani: wallyworld: had to change http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/722/
[03:24] <anastasiamac> waigani: wallyworld: could u PTAL again?
[03:24]  * thumper taps his fingers
[03:25] <anastasiamac> waigani: wallyworld: Get at apiserver now takes params.Entities
[03:25] <anastasiamac> waigani: wallyworld: everything else should be the same
[03:25] <anastasiamac> waigani: wallyworld: in fact, it's a revert to oirginal rather than a change...
[03:25] <waigani> anastasiamac: just read review, yep that makes sense to me
[03:26] <anastasiamac> waigani: awesome - so I'll keep ur shipit :)
[03:26] <waigani> anastasiamac: sure :)
[03:26] <wallyworld> anastasiamac: +1
[03:27] <thumper> can someone tell me how long the tests should take in worker/provisioner plz?
[03:27] <anastasiamac> thumper: my last run
[03:27] <anastasiamac> thumper: github.com/juju/juju/worker/provisioner 56.706s
[03:27] <thumper> anastasiamac: ta
[03:28] <anastasiamac> wallyworld: thnx!!
[03:30] <menn0> merges are unblocked people
[03:31] <anastasiamac> menn0: yes there r already changes qued up in jenkins :)
[03:32] <anastasiamac> menn0: axw: thnx for unblocking it :)
[03:32] <menn0> anastasiamac: all those queued merges may or may not be mine
[03:32]  * menn0 ducks
[03:33] <anastasiamac> menn0: and here i was thinking to start the collection for a case of scotch...
[03:33] <menn0> ha
[03:44] <thumper> fark
[03:44] <thumper> fark fark fark
[03:44] <thumper> bitten by this same fucking issue again
[03:45] <thumper> FYI, machine config only has APIInfo structure set for state server machines
[03:46] <thumper> hmm...
[03:46] <thumper> no
[03:46] <thumper> damn
[04:13] <menn0> thumper: i'm trying to get my head around how an API connection for a new environment will be opened
[04:13] <menn0> thumper: the password will always be the same right? it's stored on the user, not the envuser.
[04:14] <menn0> thumper: actually... how do passwords for machines work?
[04:14] <thumper> yes, machines have passwords
[04:14] <thumper> menn0: but that bit isn't working right now
[04:15] <menn0> thumper: fixes in your branch?
[04:15] <thumper> menn0: I've opened a huge pile of worms with this env uuid in the agent config stuff
[04:15] <thumper> broken heaps
[04:15] <thumper> and slowly untangling
[04:15] <thumper> but I'm being called away
[04:15] <thumper> to walk the dog
[04:15] <thumper> so I'm done
[04:15] <thumper> for today
[04:15] <menn0> that sucks
[04:15] <menn0> ok
[04:15] <menn0> i will ignore that part for now
[04:21] <axw> anastasiamac: looks like your branch failed on the bot, but I think it might be an infrastructure issue
[04:21] <axw> take a look, you can probably just retry it
[04:27] <anastasiamac> axw: thnx will look
[05:18] <anastasiamac> is there a comment I can send to bot to not try to $$merge$$?
[05:18] <anastasiamac> like cancel a merge?
[05:20] <wallyworld> anastasiamac: you need to have credentials, i can cancel an in progress landing if you want
[05:21] <anastasiamac> wallyworld: ic
[05:21] <wallyworld> axw: if have have a few minutes, i'd appreciate a review of http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/727/
[05:21] <anastasiamac> wallyworld: no big deal i have qd couple of branches and noticed too late that one of them has unresolved conflict
[05:21] <axw> wallyworld: looking
[05:22] <anastasiamac> wallyworld: it'll just fail.. but thnx :)
[05:22] <wallyworld> ok
[05:22] <wallyworld> anastasiamac: annotations-tags?
[05:23] <anastasiamac> wallyworld: no sync-tools
[05:23] <anastasiamac> wallyworld: annotations tags are about to be backported to 1.22 ;)
[05:23] <anastasiamac> wallyworld: since they've merged well :P
[05:24] <jam> anastasiamac: wallyworld: aren't we in feature freeze for 1.22?
[05:24] <anastasiamac> jam: this is not a feature that's new to 1.22
[05:25] <anastasiamac> jam: it's kind of a bug... that needs to be fixed in 1.22
[05:25] <anastasiamac> jam: trying to get ckient signature right to avoid conflicts later
[05:25] <anastasiamac> jam: client*
[05:26] <anastasiamac> jam: s/conflicts/headaches
[05:26] <jam> k
[05:27] <anastasiamac> jam: thnx for checking :)
[05:36] <axw> wallyworld: reviewed
[05:36] <wallyworld> ty looking
[05:37] <axw> grrrrrr, shitty tests
[05:39] <anastasiamac> wallyworld: cherry picked annotations change http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/728/
[05:42] <wallyworld> axw: i introduced a new bootstrap method to avoid churn on the other providers.  i can quite see how to wrap the finaliser though such that the instance id is available to it, since it's called from bootstrap/bootstrap.go with a machine cfg without the id and is only filled in inside the closure
[05:44] <wallyworld> s/can/can't
[05:45] <axw> wallyworld: maybe I'm wrong, gimme a sec
[05:45] <axw> wallyworld: yep, you're right, sorry
[05:46] <wallyworld> axw: sure, np. you happy with the sig change to avoid churn?
[05:46] <axw> wallyworld: yes that'd be good, thanks
[05:47] <wallyworld> axw: to be clear, I made the sig change to avoid updating all the other providers. but you didn;t like it
[05:47] <wallyworld> also, the way i have it avoids the boilerplate error checking
[05:47] <wallyworld> that would otherwise have to be introduced
[05:47] <axw> wallyworld: where would there be extra boilerplate?
[05:48] <wallyworld> axw: what's inside the new Bootstrap() func - those 5 lines or so
[05:49] <axw> wallyworld: I don't follow. the existing code hasn't changed much, and the callers of Bootstrap still need to check an error
[05:49] <wallyworld> since the environs.Bootstrap interface method i would think we'd want to retain
[05:49] <wallyworld> they just return common.Bootstrap() directly since the signature matches that of environs.Bootstrap
[05:50] <axw> wallyworld: ah yeah, that would need to change
[05:50] <axw> ok
[05:50] <axw> forget it
[05:50] <wallyworld> ok, i'll make the err change though
[05:50] <axw> wallyworld: keep it as is. I'll comment on the branch
[05:50] <wallyworld> ok, ta
[05:52] <wallyworld> axw: also, i started looking at bug 1384259. it seems cloud init is directly running the various apt commands it is configured with , and something else on the machine locks apt and then cloud init is sad. but i haven't dug any deeper. not sure if you have any ideas
[05:52] <mup> Bug #1384259: race condition running apt in bootstrap <bootstrap> <ci> <oil> <race-condition> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.22:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1384259>
[05:52] <wallyworld> not sure if we want to wrap the cloud init apt commands with a retry
[05:54] <axw> wallyworld: apt is called from the ssh script, not cloud-init (on bootstrap only)
[05:54] <wallyworld> ah doh, yeah. i saw cloud init text in the log on the bug
[05:54] <axw> we could lock... I don't *think* cloud-init does anything like that though
[05:55] <wallyworld> not sure off hand how to solve this one, need to dig into it some more. any suggestions welcome.
[06:01] <axw> wallyworld: only thing I can think of is to add a script that waits for any apt or dpkg processes to stop running before we do anything
[06:02] <wallyworld> yuk, but may have no choice :-(
[06:02] <wallyworld> i've updated the pr too
[06:02] <axw> wallyworld: it'd be good to know what it's conflicting with, that might give us a better approach
[06:03] <wallyworld> i'll ask on the bug
[06:04] <axw> wallyworld: lgtm
[06:04] <wallyworld> ty
[06:06] <wallyworld> axw: in doing that branch i lost so much time due to not realising maas gave back instance ids that were different from the system ids to be passed over the api. sigh. i now know
[06:08] <axw> wallyworld: :(   any idea why we're using the resource_uri instead?
[06:08] <wallyworld> nope :-(
[06:08] <wallyworld> i found a helper function someone wrote to convert
[06:08] <wallyworld> so it must have been a deliberate decision
[06:13] <axw> whee, finally. you can now provision ec2 instances with volumes
[06:30] <wallyworld> axw: whoot! fantastic
[07:12] <axw> wallyworld: I forgot to ask before: is there a way we can flag some manual testing as being  required for the next release?
[07:12] <axw> (e.g. ensuring MAAS 1.7 deployments work well, for non-bootstrap machines)
[07:19] <wallyworld> axw: yes, i plan on raising this with curtis tomorrow
[07:20] <axw> wallyworld: ok, cool
[07:20] <axw> wallyworld: but in general, should we be using launchpad bugs or what...?
[07:21] <wallyworld> for recording testing notes? using lp bugs seems reasonable
[07:21] <wallyworld> this close to release, i wanted to do it more explicitly
[07:21] <axw> wallyworld: not so much a note, as "we should not release unless we know this thing has been tested"
[07:22] <wallyworld> yeah that, sorry, was using the term generically
[07:22] <axw> ok
[07:22] <wallyworld> but we don't have a documented process AFAIK to flag critical testing issues
[07:23] <axw> wallyworld: in my previous job we used to create tasks for every new feature and major bug fix that would block a release. they'd generally need to be done by someone other than the implementer. we had the luxury of having big, dedicated testing teams though :)
[07:24] <wallyworld> axw: yeah, we had something similar previously for me also
[07:25] <wallyworld> we just need to make sure that wes the release manager and the QA team are informed, and that other stakeholders are brought in as needed to help test
[08:33] <dimitern> axw, hey, are you still around?
[08:34] <axw> dimitern: heya, yes I am
[08:34] <TheMue> morning *yawn*
[08:34] <axw> morning
[08:35] <dimitern> axw, a quick storage question: do we plan to mount devices in lxc containers?
[08:35] <dimitern> morning TheMue
[08:36] <axw> dimitern: we want to be able to, yes. it's going to require some changes to lxc templates to allow mounting and so on
[08:36] <axw> dimitern: why do you ask?
[08:37] <dimitern> axw, because due to the networking work I plan to make lxc config file templates more flexible
[08:37] <dimitern> axw, and this should also help for storage
[08:38] <axw> dimitern: I see, yes, that will be helpful
[08:38] <dimitern> axw, sweet, I'll let you know when my changes are in then
[08:39] <axw> dimitern: thanks very much. probably won't be getting to lxc for a little while yet, but that'll be much appreciated
[08:39] <axw> wallyworld: ^^ dimitern is helping with storage now ;)
[08:39] <dimitern> wallyworld, axw, :D more like side-effecting it
[09:31] <dimitern> wallyworld, axw, can any of you have a look at a small goamz PR? https://github.com/go-amz/amz/pull/16 thanks!
[09:43] <voidspace> dimitern: ping
[09:43] <voidspace> dimitern: cannot use parent (type names.Tag) as type names.MachineTag in function argument: need type assertion
[09:44] <dimitern> voidspace, hmm
[09:44] <dimitern> voidspace, yeah?
[09:44] <voidspace> dimitern: just getting the code
[09:44] <voidspace> dimitern: I want to know if it's safe to just do the conversion
[09:45] <voidspace> dimitern: if I actually have the right tag
[09:45] <voidspace> dimitern: just finding the place where I get the tag and where I'm using it
[09:45] <dimitern> voidspace, it is safe if you actually have a names.MachineTag
[09:45] <voidspace> parent := p.authorizer.GetAuthTag()
[09:45] <voidspace> parentTag, err := names.ParseMachineTag(parent)
[09:46] <voidspace> parentMachine, err := p.getMachine(canAccess, parentTag)
[09:46] <voidspace> ah
[09:46] <voidspace> now the error is
[09:46] <voidspace>  cannot use parent (type names.Tag) as type string in function argument
[09:46] <voidspace> dimitern: so just convert then...
[09:47] <dimitern> voidspace, wait a sec
[09:47] <voidspace> dimitern: is the result of GetAuthTag() the machine tag?
[09:47] <dimitern> voidspace, GetAuthTag does return names.Tag, but if authorizer.AuthMachineAgent() is true then it's safe to cast it
[09:48] <voidspace> if it isn't true we shouldn't be running...
[09:48] <voidspace> so I should check I guess
[09:48] <dimitern> voidspace, yeah - have a look at NewProvisionerAPI in apiserver
[09:48] <dimitern> voidspace, the very first check is if !authorizer.AuthMachineAgent() && !authorizer.AuthEnvironManager() { return nil, common.ErrPerm }
[09:49] <dimitern> voidspace, actually, the getAuthFunc defined there is just what you need
[09:49] <dimitern> voidspace, it already checks parent/child relationship
[09:49] <voidspace> ah
[09:50] <voidspace> and I'm using that later anyway
[09:50] <voidspace> so maybe I don't need a separate check
[09:50] <voidspace> I'll look at that, thanks
[09:50] <dimitern> voidspace, yes, *I think* you can just use that getAuthFunc to validate the passed tag
[09:51] <voidspace> cool, thanks
[10:02] <dimitern> voidspace, standup?
[10:05] <voidspace> dimitern: oops, sorry
[10:56] <dimitern> voidspace, I have a cunning plan :)
[10:56] <dimitern> voidspace, you can't tag IPs, but you can tag NICs
[10:58] <dimitern> voidspace, e.g. we can add tags like "juju:machine-id=<id>", "juju:<mid>:address:<#>=<ip>" to the NIC after calling RunInstances
[11:00] <dimitern> voidspace, so each time we call AttachPrivateIpAddress successfully, we also add a tag "juju:0/lxc/0:address:0"="" (we don't know the address yet), but then when listing all instance IPs we use the tags to decide which goes where
[11:02] <dimitern> voidspace, and the instance updater can set "juju:0/lxc/0:address:0"="<some yet-unassigned ip>" as a tag and also in state
[11:03] <dimitern> anyway.. just thinking out loud - tags can be pretty powerful way of adding metadata accessible via aws api even if apiserver dies/cannot be reached, we can use the tags to intelligently cleanup dependent resources
[11:06] <TheMue> dimitern: to stay with the golang naming conventions I would call it AttachPrivateIPAddress()
[11:07] <perrito666> morning
[11:07] <dimitern> TheMue, in goamz it's called AssignPrivateIPAddresses actually
[11:07] <TheMue> perrito666: heya and good morning
[11:07] <dimitern> morning perrito666
[11:07] <TheMue> dimitern: +1
[11:07] <TheMue> dimitern: just took a look at net package ;)
[11:08] <dimitern> TheMue, yeah :)
[11:37] <perrito666> dimitern: TheMue any of you knows what is the status of blocking bugs?
[11:37] <dimitern> perrito666, all resolved
[11:37] <perrito666> dimitern: and merged?
[11:37] <dimitern> perrito666, for now at least, so no longer blocked
[11:37]  * perrito666 looks at the topic hoping it will dissapear
[11:47] <perrito666> wallyworld: do you not sleep?
[11:47] <wallyworld> sometimes
[11:48] <wallyworld> like you can talk :-)
[11:49] <perrito666> heh fair
[11:50] <perrito666> anyway your mail makes sense, that is why i added a unit ptr as a member of the unitagent, we can use tag from there
[11:53] <wallyworld> perrito666: i don't think it makes sense to embed the whole unit into unitagent - i thought we talked about having unitagent very lightweight, just doing status get/set
[11:53] <voidspace> dimitern: that's a terrible abuse of tags :-D
[11:54] <dimitern> voidspace, :) oh, I'm just getting started
[11:54] <voidspace> :-)
[11:55] <perrito666> wallyworld: I did not embed it, its just a member
[11:55] <perrito666> wallyworld: you might need some sleep and a couple of drinks
[11:55] <wallyworld> perrito666: the latter is taken care of :-)
[11:55] <perrito666> lol
[11:56] <wallyworld> but i'm still not sure about even referencing unit
[11:56] <wallyworld> we don't need all that baggage inside UnitAgent struct, which for now is just about get/set status
[11:57] <perrito666> I am all ears about Tag then :p
[11:59] <wallyworld> we could invent a new one eg "unitagent-foo/0", or easier, just have SetAgentStatus pass the "unit" tag across the wire and the method knows how to deal with it
[11:59] <wallyworld> the latter seems best, but maybe i'm missing something
[12:01] <perrito666> I am not sure of the implication of the latter, I guess it could work
[12:02] <wallyworld> i think it will be ok, but would need to start coding to see where it ends up
[12:03] <perrito666> well, that is what I am for
[12:03] <perrito666> and tonight I have meetings at 11pm and 00 (its 9am) so I seem to have time ahead of me
[12:24] <voidspace> dimitern: hmmm, I bet you can't set tags atomically though
[12:28] <dimitern> voidspace, well it would appear so.. although you can't set tags on instance/NIC/etc. creation according to the docs, you *can* launch an instance via the AWS web console and add tags to it
[12:28] <dimitern> voidspace, i've enabled the cloudtrail API logging and experimenting now to see how they do it
[12:28] <voidspace> cool
[12:28] <perrito666> mm, on a machine from scratch here and our tests seem to expect a /usr/lib/juju/bin/mongod
[12:29] <perrito666> that is sort of wrong for the tests isn't it?
[13:13] <wwitzel3> perrito666: short answer, yes ;)
[14:25] <jw4> backport PR to remove accidentally added file from 1.22: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/731/
[14:25] <jw4> OCR PTAL ^^
[14:25] <jw4> :)
[14:25] <dimitern> jw4, ship it! :)
[14:25] <jw4> dimitern: :)
[14:27] <perrito666> that is so close to occipital
[14:28] <jw4> perrito666: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occipital_bone ?
[14:29] <perrito666> true
[14:29] <perrito666> the OCRPTAL bone
[14:29] <jw4> hehe
[14:29]  * jw4 just got it
[15:05] <TheMue> o/
[15:12] <perrito666> OCR PTAL http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/732/
[15:15] <dimitern> perrito666, we should just start using "occipital" :D
[15:17] <perrito666> dimitern: yes, it was very hard to resist the temptation
[15:35] <katco> one-line change and test; blocking 1.22; up for review: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/733/
[15:40] <dimitern> katco, wow!
[15:40] <dimitern> katco, a return is all it takes?
[15:41] <katco> dimitern: i told you i had already thought of the possibility, but i ignored my own warning ;)
[15:41] <dimitern> katco, hehe - you've got a review
[15:42] <katco> dimitern: ty, i'll add the bug#
[15:44] <katco> dimitern: would you be able to do a quick test of the code on your environment? or has the opportunity passed?
[15:45] <dimitern> katco, sure, let me pull your branch
[15:45] <katco> dimitern: ty so much :)
[15:51] <dimitern> katco, np - it's bootstrapping now
[15:51] <katco> dimitern: cool ty again
[16:06] <dimitern> katco, ok, so no panic, just a few warnings about dns resolving - http://paste.ubuntu.com/9749392/
[16:06] <katco> dimitern: that's expected; looks good, yes?
[16:06] <dimitern> katco, yes, however isn't the warning message a bit misleading?
[16:07] <katco> dimitern: how so?
[16:07] <dimitern> katco, "Status may be incorrect" ?
[16:07] <katco> dimitern: well, it's showing that you're running on no subnets and utilizing no ports
[16:07] <dimitern> katco, got it, right
[16:07] <dimitern> katco, lgtm then
[16:08] <katco> dimitern: ty for all the help; finding it, reporting it, everything :)
[16:09] <dimitern> katco, np, thanks for fixing it so quickly :)
[16:10] <katco> dimitern: it's much easier to troubleshoot/fix something when you know (almost) everything about it :)
[16:11] <katco> dimitern: and the fact that i could write a unit test sped up the process as well
[16:11] <dimitern> katco, exactly!
[16:43] <voidspace> dimitern: ping
[16:43] <voidspace> dimitern: you still around?
[16:44] <dimitern> voidspace, yep
[16:44] <voidspace>  dimitern state.State supports adding a subnet that doesn't yet exist in state or fetching one that already exists
[16:44] <voidspace> dimitern: what I *want* is "get me this subnet - adding it if it doesn't exist"
[16:44] <voidspace> dimitern: better to do that in a State method or just hand code the logic
[16:45] <dimitern> voidspace, too many "states" :)
[16:45] <voidspace> hah
[16:45] <dimitern> voidspace, does not exist in which state?
[16:45] <dimitern> voidspace, ah, sorry
[16:45] <voidspace> the stored state
[16:45] <dimitern> voidspace, got you
[16:45] <voidspace> mongo I guess
[16:45] <voidspace> I mean, I know it's mongo
[16:45] <voidspace> but I guess that's a better way of saying it...
[16:46] <dimitern> voidspace, right - we can change AddSubnet to AddOrUpdateSubnet perhaps?
[16:46] <voidspace> dimitern: ok
[16:47] <voidspace> gah, and there's network.SubnetInfo plus state.SubnetInfo
[16:47] <voidspace> I have a network.SubnetInfo, I need a state.SubnetInfo
[16:47] <dimitern> voidspace, let me have a look
[16:48] <voidspace> dimitern: I wrote the code, I only have myself to blame
[16:48] <dimitern> voidspace, right, so the unfortunate duplication is on purpose
[16:48] <voidspace> dimitern: I'm ok
[16:49] <katco> dimitern: backport of same change to v1.22: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/734/
[16:49] <dimitern> voidspace, state shouldn't depend on other packages, the same applies to params
[16:49] <dimitern> katco, looking
[16:49] <voidspace> dimitern: although state does depend on network anyway I believe
[16:49] <dimitern> katco, ship it! :)
[16:50] <katco> dimitern: woot! grats on quick turn around on this :)
[16:50] <dimitern> voidspace, well it does for network.Address I think
[16:50] <dimitern> katco, well I've seen it before lol
[16:51] <katco> dimitern: i mean the whole bug :)
[16:51] <katco> dimitern: wouldn't have gotten resolved, nor so quickly w/o your help
[16:51] <dimitern> katco, ah, yeah - one of the fastest fixes lately
[16:52] <dimitern> katco, np, glad to help
[16:53] <dimitern> voidspace, so.. the state documents shouldn't depend on things outside of state, which might change out-of-band and lead to docs getting serialized differently
[16:53] <voidspace> dimitern: fair enough
[16:53] <dimitern> voidspace, we're not entirely depend-less, but let's not make it worse :)
[16:54] <dimitern> voidspace, as for params - same issue - serialization; we shouldn't change the on-the-wire format of the api incompatibly
[16:54] <voidspace> I'm aware of that one
[16:55] <voidspace> for state I don't think it's a *genuine* issue though as we populate a subnetDoc from the SubnetInfo
[16:55] <dimitern> voidspace, sorry :/
[16:55] <voidspace> so we're safe from "out of band changes" anyway
[16:55] <voidspace> as we already have a layer of indirection for the actual serialisation
[16:55] <dimitern> voidspace, yeah, that's right
[16:56] <voidspace> adding SubnetInfo is *two layers* of indirection
[16:56] <voidspace> :-p
[16:56] <dimitern> voidspace, we should consult fwereade here I think
[16:56] <voidspace> dimitern: let me work with the code and see how it feels - I'll just write a "caster function" I guess
[16:57] <dimitern> voidspace, because not depending on packages for the sake of stable serialization format for mongo docs is one thing, but no dependencies at all might be too much
[16:57] <voidspace> ok
[16:57] <voidspace> and Subnet representation (network package) is a low level dependency not a structural dependency
[16:58] <dimitern> voidspace, I think so, yes
[18:25] <voidspace> dimitern: late ping
[18:27] <dimitern> voidspace, yeah? i'm around on and off
[18:28] <voidspace> dimitern: you added network.InterfaceInfo recently, with the intention it be used by the ProviderAPI api?
[18:29] <dimitern> voidspace, not over the wire though - there's a params.NetworkInfo for that
[18:30] <voidspace> dimitern: I have subnet info and ip address and am wondering how I get the extra information if that's what I'm required to
[18:31] <voidspace> dimitern: from the subnet CIDR I'll have to fetch the NIC info
[18:31] <voidspace> dimitern: it doesn't look like there's a provider method for this (that I can see), can I assume state will have it correctly?
[18:31] <voidspace> for the host machine
[18:33] <dimitern> voidspace, sorry, what extra info?
[18:33] <voidspace> DeviceIndex, MACAddress, NetworkName, InterfaceName
[18:33] <voidspace> etc...
[18:33] <voidspace> everything on NetworkInfo that isn't on SubnetInfo
[18:34] <dimitern> voidspace, hmm
[18:34] <voidspace> let me double check there's no environ.Interfaces
[18:34] <dimitern> voidspace, from state you mean?
[18:34] <voidspace> dimitern: I call environ.Subnets() which returns []network.SubnetInfo
[18:34] <voidspace> dimitern: there is an interface collection in state though I *believe*
[18:35] <voidspace> dimitern: maybe a problem for tomorrow as it's late for me too
[18:36] <voidspace> dimitern: I thought you might know easily... :-)
[18:36] <dimitern> voidspace, yeah - let's call it a day :) I'm a bit dumb now I'm afraid
[18:36] <voidspace> dimitern: it's even later for you than it is for me! Goodnight, see you tomorrow.
[18:36] <voidspace> and goodnight everyone
[19:43] <thumper> morning folks
[19:44] <thumper> geez... you make one small thing required and suddenly heaps of tests break...
[19:45] <perrito666> thumper: what did you break while we where not looking?
[19:45] <thumper> perrito666: I'm needing to add the environment uuid to the agent config
[19:45] <thumper> perrito666: otherwise all the machine and unit agents don't know which environment to connect to
[19:46] <thumper> perrito666: but that opened a world of hurt
[19:46] <thumper> that I've spent about five hours unpicking
[19:46] <thumper> I think I'm almost there
[19:46] <thumper> then I need to write an upgrade step
[19:46] <perrito666> I am sure you said "this should be easy" before starting, that usually complicates things
[19:46] <thumper> I think I did
[19:47] <thumper> I expected it to be a few hours
[19:47] <thumper> not days
[19:47] <perrito666> well, you should never jynx it
[19:52] <thumper> and I seem to have made the provisioner tests never exit
[19:52] <thumper> ...
[19:52] <thumper> not sure how that happened
[19:53]  * thumper looks up and sees two open critical bugs
[19:53] <thumper> WTF
[19:53] <thumper> ok... topic is wrong
[19:54] <perrito666> thumper: yep, I dont know why is not back to  none
[19:54] <perrito666> build is unblocked
[19:58] <perrito666> now, this is unexpected, there is an mtv channel that actually has music
[19:59] <thumper> haha
[20:14] <thumper> menn0: bot is unblocked, land your pending ones if you havent' already
[20:20]  * thumper makes a sad face
[20:20] <thumper> just found the most horrible fragile test
[20:20] <thumper> but don't have time to fix it right now
[20:21] <perrito666> thumper: which is?
[20:21] <thumper> func (*cloudinitSuite) TestWindowsCloudInit(c *gc.C) {
[20:21] <perrito666> ah, oops
[20:22] <thumper> no shit, doing an equality test with a 850 line string
[20:22] <thumper> any change in any cloundinit stuff means the string has to change
[20:22] <menn0> thumper: I landed then all yesterday (I unblocked the bot and got them all in before telling anyone else :-0)
[20:23] <menn0> thumper: that sounds wonderful
[20:23] <menn0> thumper: (that test)
[20:27] <thumper> tech debt item: all cloudinit tests are awful and fragile
[20:42] <thumper> ah ha...
[20:43] <thumper> I think I found the culprit
[20:52] <wwitzel3> ericsnow: ping
[20:52] <ericsnow> wwitzel3: hey
[21:34] <menn0> waigani: Ship It!
[21:35] <waigani> menn0: sweet, thanks
[21:50] <menn0> ericsnow: I just reviewed your Attempt PR again (Ship It if you like)
[21:51] <ericsnow> menn0: thanks
[22:04] <thumper> by joves I think I may have fixed all the test failures
[22:04] <thumper> ...
[22:04]  * thumper runs full suite again
[22:13] <thumper> menn0: 31 files changed, 185 insertions(+), 87 deletions(-) to get the tests passing on requiring environ uuid
[22:16] <thumper> menn0: do you have a few minutes to chat? I need to talk through an issue
[22:16] <thumper> although I think I know the answer
[22:24] <thumper> menn0, waigani_: beware with upgrade steps landing since 1.22 was branched, we should have 1.23 upgrade steps now
[22:24] <waigani_> thumper: right, noted
[22:24] <thumper> we should check any that have landed since the branch (if any)
[22:25] <thumper> I was just thinking of this now as I'm about to write an upgrade setp
[22:39] <menn0> thumper: hi, sorry just noticed this. was deep in thought. chat now?
[22:40] <thumper> 2 minutes, booking a shuttle for tomorrow
[22:43] <thumper> menn0: standup hangout?
[22:43] <menn0> thumper: see you there
[23:35] <sinzui> thumper, wallyworld_ can you get someone to look into the windows regression reported in bug 1411024
[23:35] <mup> Bug #1411024: Win client/agent cannot bug built because of backup deps <ci> <regression> <windows> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1411024>
[23:35] <davecheney> thumper: is there an agenda for our feb sprint ?
[23:46] <davecheney> menn0: so what i'm hearing is "no, don't install the latest kernel update if you want wifi to work"
[23:50] <perrito666> sinzui: I am the culprit, Ill fix it


[06:11] <Private_User> eish no power again going to have to log off cheers all
[06:39] <Kilos> morning all
[07:57] <Kilos> morning not_found  you at work?
[07:59] <not_found> yup uncle Kilos
[08:02] <not_found> how are you?
[08:04] <Kilos> good ty not_found  and you lad?
[08:04] <not_found> ok thx
[08:18] <Kilos> well at least when you work these shifts then you can chat when bored
[08:19] <Kilos> or study
[08:21] <not_found> true, but plant off so busy
[08:22] <Kilos> ah
[09:06] <charl_> good morning
[09:06] <charl_> Maaz: coffee on
[09:06]  * Maaz flips the salt-timer
[09:06] <Kilos> hi charl_
[09:06] <Kilos> Maaz  coffee please
[09:07] <Maaz> Kilos: Sure
[09:08] <Kilos> Maaz  with milk
[09:08] <Maaz> Haha Kilos You aren't one of those that needs to drink black coffee to be able to cast a shadow!
[09:10] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for charl_ and Kilos!
[09:10] <Kilos> Maaz  thanks
[09:10] <Maaz> Kilos: Sure
[09:10] <Kilos> wb Tonberry
[09:12] <charl_> wb Tonberry
[09:12] <charl_> hi Kilos
[09:23] <Kilos> can you see this applet button
[09:23] <Kilos> http://www.ab9il.net/wlan-projects/wifi6.html
[09:24] <Kilos> somewhere my security settings is blocking it
[09:24] <Kilos> ive even removed firewall
[09:24] <Kilos> charl_  ^^
[09:24] <Kilos> i need that site to open that button to be able to use the design tool
[09:25] <Kilos> ive told firefox and opera to allow popups and whatever else i found to allow but still no luck
[09:27] <Kilos> maybe i need to reboot?
[09:32] <charl_> back, looking
[09:33] <charl_> where is this applet button? i don't see anything
[09:33] <Kilos> half way down the page
[09:34] <charl_> oh now i see it... "you would see a button here if java worked"
[09:34] <Kilos> its java something or other
[09:34] <charl_> i don't see a button either
[09:34] <charl_> i don't have java applets enabled
[09:34] <charl_> those are just plain evil
[09:34] <Kilos> should just spin then open it
[09:34] <Kilos> ah ok
[09:35] <Kilos> thats the only design tool i find but it is an online tool
[09:35] <Kilos> i wish they would make the tool downloadable
[09:36] <charl_> yes that would make much more sense
[09:36] <charl_> or an html5 tool
[09:36] <charl_> nobody does java applets anymore
[09:43] <Kilos> ya but i need to use that tool so have no choice
[09:44] <Kilos> lemme see if a reboot will allow it
[09:44] <Kilos> wbb
[09:51] <charl_> wb Kilos
[09:51] <charl_> clocks moved forward today for summer
[09:51] <Kilos> ty no change
[09:51] <Kilos> grrr
[09:51] <charl_> afaik we are now on the same time zone as you
[09:51] <Kilos> ive been there before
[09:51] <charl_> it's 11:51 here right now
[09:51] <Kilos> yeah same
[09:59] <Kilos> sigh i cant find what security setting is blocking it
[10:02] <charl_> do you even have java installed?
[10:05] <Kilos> ya i even got oracle java 7 to get it going
[10:05] <charl_> hmmm
[10:05] <Kilos> and jre-headless and default
[10:05] <charl_> you have to configure your browser to be able to use it
[10:05] <Kilos> i have told ff to use java plugins
[10:06] <Kilos> activated or something
[10:07] <charl_> the icedtea-7-plugin package?
[10:07] <Kilos> lemme see
[10:07] <charl_> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java#Browser_plugin
[10:11] <Kilos> had icedtea6 but not 7
[10:17] <Kilos> nope security settings still block it
[10:17] <Kilos> grrrr
[13:55] <Kilos> hmmm...
[13:56] <Kilos> charl_  i got it going on small drive without oracle, just all the jre stuff
[13:56] <Kilos> now i need to convert 2mm to inches i think
[13:57] <Kilos> Maaz  google millimeter to inches converter for 12.04
[13:57] <Maaz> Kilos: "Ring Sizes Conversion Chart - Ask Numbers" http://www.asknumbers.com/RingSize.aspx :: "11 mm caliber - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11_mm_caliber :: "Ring size - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_size :: "Ubuntu Manpage: chm2pdf - A tool convert chm to pdf format"
[13:57] <Maaz> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/hardy/man1/chm2pdf.1.html :: "ImageMagick • View topic - convert will result …
[13:57] <Kilos> hmm...
[14:01] <Kilos> hehe
[14:01] <Kilos> Maaz  convert 2mm to inches
[14:01] <Maaz> Kilos: 2 mm = 0.078740157 inches
[14:22] <Kilos> oh my now that plugin crashed too
[15:09] <Kilos> hmm...
[15:09] <Kilos> hi kbmonkey  captine
[15:10] <kbmonkey> hi kilos
[15:11] <Kilos> this doesnt explain anything does it
[15:11] <Kilos> http://slexy.org/view/s20MKKAUyf
[15:12] <Kilos> somewhere i have a security setting stopping a java plugin from working
[15:12] <kbmonkey> sjoe the 2g is slow today. trying to download 600MB of updates since 2pm
[15:12] <Kilos> the whole net went slow this avy
[15:13] <kbmonkey> I hope it gets faster, I am trying to use my data before midnight!
[15:13] <Kilos> haha you trying to finish data before it expires
[15:13] <kbmonkey> am installing a rolling release on the laptop :]
[15:14] <Kilos> which one
[15:14] <kbmonkey> debian testing
[15:15] <Kilos> aha
[15:15] <kbmonkey> been moving the dongle all around the room finding the best spots
[15:15] <Kilos> maybe one day you come to buntu
[15:15] <Kilos> the net is very bad
[15:15] <Kilos> was fine this morning
[15:16] <Kilos> but 2g super sucks
[15:16]  * Kilos smiles with 3.75g
[15:17] <kbmonkey> lol I bet you smiling!
[15:17] <kbmonkey> ya I want to try 14.04 when I get a copy
[15:18] <kbmonkey> funny thing is the speed seems to increase when I pick the modem up
[15:19] <Kilos> one with a cable to it
[15:19] <kbmonkey> wifi
[15:19] <Kilos> oh this will help
[15:19] <Kilos> oh wifi
[15:19] <Kilos> ry holding a stainless dish behind it
[15:19] <Kilos> try
[15:19] <kbmonkey> ok!
[15:20] <Kilos> you know the direction your signal is from dont you
[15:20] <kbmonkey> no I don't know
[15:20] <Kilos> then you gotta turn around slowly till you see speed go up
[15:21] <Kilos> what wifi antenna you using that you can pick up
[15:21] <Kilos> there are tools for checking signal strengths but they expensive
[15:22] <kbmonkey> wifi signal is strong its the mobile network that is slow
[15:22] <kbmonkey> mtn
[15:23] <Kilos> eish
[15:24] <Kilos> go 8ta man
[15:24] <Kilos> the telkom starter pack modem flies once you get it connected
[15:25] <Kilos> 3.75g modem for R399
[15:28] <kbmonkey> got 8ta sim and modem, too late to top-up now though
[15:28] <Kilos> tomorrow is the 31st so still another day
[15:29] <kbmonkey> they still got that R150 for 3GB deal kilos?
[15:29] <Kilos> yeah
[15:29] <Kilos> that all i use
[15:29] <kbmonkey> what? the 31st? oh my, I am lost in time! xD
[15:30] <kbmonkey> thanks oom!
[15:30] <Kilos> i was also i just looked at the calender here
[15:30] <kbmonkey> you made my heart happy
[15:30] <Kilos> thought i could topup tomorrow
[15:30] <Kilos> hehe
[15:32] <Kilos> i even spend lotsa time on facebook yesterday accepting peeps and adding friends that ive ignored for years
[15:35] <Kilos> spent
[15:36] <kbmonkey> I got to finish up this room for tonight, Ill try be back later
[15:36] <Kilos> kbmonkey  you still using lynx
[15:36] <Kilos> ok
[15:37] <kbmonkey> on the shell account sometimes I use elinks
[15:37] <kbmonkey> but on pc I have iceweasel
[15:37] <Kilos> opera has a plugin for facebook
[15:37] <charl_> ah debian user in our midst :)
[15:37] <Kilos> fb purity
[15:38] <Kilos> stops some of the adds and junk
[15:38] <kbmonkey> lol charl_
[15:38] <Kilos> yeah we will have the crashbang kid on buntu somwtime
[15:38] <Kilos> crunchbang
[15:39] <Kilos> daai ding
[15:39] <kbmonkey> monkeybang
[15:40] <Kilos> haha
[15:40] <Kilos> you got a visitor coming tonight?
[15:40] <Kilos> hmm...
[15:40] <kbmonkey> oh my! just jumped up to 3G, says 1 hour left.
[15:40] <Kilos> lol
[15:41] <charl_> ah openbox ftw2
[15:41] <charl_> *ftw
[15:41] <kbmonkey> then back to 2g, 20 hours left. ha ha
[15:41] <Kilos> ouch
[15:41] <charl_> used to run openbox on ubuntu but switched to i3
[15:42] <kbmonkey> no Kilos no one. I moved yesterday and unpacking today.
[15:42] <Kilos> eish
[15:42] <Kilos> not not like the modern world yet
[15:42] <Kilos> never do today what you can put off till tomorrow
[15:44] <kbmonkey> charl_, I am busy setting up debian testing now so that I can get the latest i3 :].
[15:44] <kbmonkey> used to build it from source, but got stuck with the newer libraries coming in
[15:44] <kbmonkey> so figured, hey lets just run testing
[15:46] <charl_> debian testing is probably more stable than ubuntu release :)
[15:47] <Kilos> eish dont run buntu down here
[15:47] <charl_> lol Kilos
[15:48] <Kilos> hehe
[15:48] <kbmonkey> it's dual boot. I'll be interested to see how it turns out...
[15:48]  * superfly uses unstable
[15:48] <Kilos> hi superfly
[15:48] <charl_> hi superfly
[15:48] <kbmonkey> the fly lives on the bleeding edge
[15:48] <Kilos> yeah
[15:49] <charl_> is unstable even more up to date than testing ?
[15:49] <Kilos> thats fine if you know what you are doing
[15:49] <kbmonkey> Kilos, now it is getting 300kB/s amazing
[15:49] <charl_> i used to run debian 7.4 (stable) but only because i needed an ancient version of the linux kernel in order to use vmware workstation 9
[15:49] <Kilos> lekker
[15:49] <charl_> since upgrading to vmware workstation 10 i'm back on ubuntu 13.10
[15:49] <Kilos> mine peaks at 1005kB/s
[15:51] <kbmonkey> on that note Im off to finish up unpacking. nearly done!
[15:51] <superfly> experimental is bleeding edge, unstable is pretty stable
[15:51] <charl_> yup... that's debian for you all right :)
[15:51] <superfly> stable -> testing -> unstable ->experimental
[15:52] <charl_> have any of you people tried arch/manjaro ?
[15:52] <charl_> i was playing with manjaro and was super impressed
[15:52] <charl_> not everything works perfectly and a bunch of packages seem to be somewhat broken
[15:52] <Kilos> theblazehen is an arch user
[15:52] <charl_> but that which works works amazing
[15:53] <Kilos> Maaz  seen theblazehen
[15:53] <Maaz> Kilos: theblazehen was last seen 17 days, 22 hours, 42 minutes and 9 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2014-03-12 10:10:53 PDT], and has been offline on freenode since 2014-03-14 13:58:53 PDT
[15:53] <Kilos> sjoe
[15:53] <charl_> the thing i really like about manjaro is that it comes with the open virualisation drivers out of the box
[15:53] <charl_> so you can run it perfectly inside a VM even from the live cd
[15:54] <charl_> and pacman is SUPER fast
[15:54] <superfly> arch is for masochists... I want my PC to actually work
[15:54] <Kilos> haha
[15:54] <charl_> ... right :)
[15:55] <charl_> i also heard irssi is for masochists on this channel amoung some other strange things... :)
[15:55] <charl_> next thing people will say is vim is also for masochists
[15:55] <Kilos> ya normal peeps use xchat quassel and konversation
[15:56] <charl_> Kilos: that depends on how you define "normal" ;)
[15:56] <Kilos> like me
[15:56] <charl_> no comment :D
[15:56] <Kilos> just younger and with all their brains intact
[16:27] <Kilos> maaz google the percentage geeks to normal people
[16:27] <Maaz> Kilos: "Wired 9.12: The Geek Syndrome" http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aspergers_pr.html :: "Click-through rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Click-through_rate :: "A geek plays darts - DataGenetics" http://datagenetics.com/blog/january12012/index.html :: "Computer Geeks As Loners? Data Says Otherwise - Slashdot"
[16:27] <Maaz> http://news.slashdot.org/story/14/02/14/1837208/computer-geeks-as-loners-data-says-otherwise :: "W…
[16:27] <Kilos> hehe
[16:29] <Kilos> i wonder what the percentage actually is
[16:33] <Kilos> charl you should remember from when you were at school
[16:34] <charl_> lol what the percentage of geeks to normal people?
[16:34] <charl_> i would say 1 to 100 :)
[16:34] <Kilos> whew so min
[16:35] <Kilos> hhaha sounds funny hey compared to normal people
[16:48] <Kilos> uh oh
[16:49] <Kilos> who killed the pro\
[16:49] <Kilos> Maaz  tell inetpro fix it
[16:49] <Maaz> Kilos: Sure, I'll tell inetpro on freenode
[17:02] <charl_> :)
[17:02] <charl_> have a good evening all !
[17:51] <captine> hi all.  capped and on 3g... sucks
[17:52] <Kilos> hi captine
[17:54] <Kilos> capped to what?
[17:56] <captine> hi Kilos
[17:57] <captine> capped as in used 73 gig
[17:57] <captine> on a 70 gig package
[17:57] <Kilos> wow
[17:57] <Kilos> you use lots hey
[17:57] <captine> the wife streams movies from dstv all day
[17:57] <captine> and youtube
[17:57] <captine> :)
[17:58] <Kilos> ouch
[18:11] <Kilos> Maaz  tell charl the security settings were in the java control panel. i didnt even know there was such a thing
[18:11] <Maaz> Kilos: Okay, I'll tell Charl on freenode
[18:24] <Kilos> Trixar_za  the new sakis switches the modem but none of the other commands work
[18:25] <Kilos> this one moans about lib.h or something
[18:25] <Kilos> will check it again tomorrow
[19:32] <inetpro> hmm...
[19:39] <Kilos> hi inetpro  what broke
[19:47] <Kilos> hmm...
[19:48] <Kilos> hi cr33p
[19:55] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight