[00:00] <sgh> alteregoa: I have looked into the ressource limits that can be set (ulimit). But no luck.
[00:01] <arand> sgh: I ran ubuntu-bug in the .crash file and it seemed to work, you want me to go ahead with reporting it?
[00:01] <alteregoa> sudo sysctl vm.mmap_min_addr=0
[00:01] <sgh> arand: would be very nice.
[00:01] <sgh> alteregoa: It is done by default when intalling dosemu.
[00:03] <arand> or is this  is running and calls apport-gtk or apport-qt accordingly. If neither is available, or the session  does not run under X11, it calls apport-cli for a command-line client.
[00:04] <arand> sorry. *Or is this Bug #216398 all over?
[00:05] <sgh> ubottu: I do not think so. mmap_min_addr is indeed set to 0
[00:05] <arand> But then... the workaround described doesn't seem to apply...
[00:06] <alteregoa> this may because process can't map anymore page at offset 0 for security reason
[00:09] <sgh> alteregoa: yes maybe. /etc/security/* contains nothing interesting on my system.
[00:09] <alteregoa> the bug is fixed on the actual svn
[00:10] <sgh> alteregoa: excellent. dosemu svn repo?
[00:11] <arand> Bug #625433
[00:11] <arand> Bug #425433
[00:11] <alteregoa> svn co https://dosemu.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/dosemu/trunk dosemu
[00:11] <arand>  is running and calls apport-gtk
[00:11] <arand>        or apport-qt accordingly. If neither is available, or the session  does
[00:11] <arand>        not run under X11, it calls apport-cli for a command-line client.
[00:11] <alteregoa> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=538432
[00:12] <arand> Sorry, me and pasting don't agree today.
[00:14] <sgh> got to go to sleep now. Will try new dosemu later. Thank you for your help :)
[00:14] <alteregoa> http://ftp.hu.debian.org/debian/pool/contrib/d/dosemu/dosemu_1.4.0+svn.1828-2+b1_amd64.deb
[00:15] <arand> alteregoa: is that not the same bug I mentioned earlier, which didn't seem to apply in this case?
[00:15] <alteregoa> the bug is from juli 25 2009
[00:16] <alteregoa> i check now the debian packet
[00:19] <arand> alteregoa: Since cat /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr for me gives 0 nd yet I experience the issue...
[00:29] <Polterge|st> I am wondering when the Gnome team will fix the bug with the columns and rows being stuck on zero for the workspace switcher preferences, and also I am wondering when multiple wallpaper support will be compiled into nautilus ?
[00:32] <not_shivan> hi, quick question, is anyone here running 9.10 with tex-common installed?
[00:35] <arand> alteregoa: seems like the deb you linked did not work (tried i386).
[00:38] <arand> Polterge|st: First one: some point before release I would presume, second one: When you (or someone else that is sufficiently bothered by it) implement it, or in gnome3, whichever happens first. ;)
[00:39] <Polterge|st> true arand
[00:39] <Polterge|st> I've just noticed it there for awhile which is why I ask
[00:39] <Polterge|st> if I knew more about python I would fix it myself
[00:39] <Polterge|st> I've thought about trying to find some good books on it
[00:40] <Polterge|st> that way I can work more with gnome coding
[00:40] <Polterge|st> I'm sure it is something simple
[00:43] <alteregoa> whats tex common?
[00:43] <wastrel> tex is a typesetting language
[00:43] <wastrel> tex-common would be common files needed for tex
[00:44] <NoelJB> TeX --- Don Knuth.  About 30 years old typesetting system.
[00:53] <Polt{laptop}> when I use rhythmbox I get a message popup that says "Both autoaudiosink and alsasink elements are not working."
[00:57] <arand> Polterge|st: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48004 says it all (diff background, diff workspace, Note: reported in 2001 !)
[00:58] <NoelJB> ah ... the new PA fixes a bunch of things for me :-)
[00:59] <Polterge|st> yeah it is steadily fixing things
[00:59] <Polterge|st> I just think that they need as much input as possible because the more ideas they have, the more they can perfect things
[01:00] <NoelJB> Well, with THIS code drop, I am hoping that it won't keep turning off the internal mic, requiring me to re-enable it with alsamixer, and it also looks like I can select the correct input source without padevchooser.
[01:01] <NoelJB> which I could not do before.  I wonder if that's why Daniel had asked me.
[01:07] <alteregoa> fascinating
[01:08] <alteregoa> i try to play maniac mansion
[01:23] <brent> anyone in here know how to toggle between languages in ubuntu?
[01:32] <NoelJB> brent, you mean other than System->Administration->Language Support?
[01:46] <Polt{laptop}> for some reason my compiz doesn't want to let me just choose extra effects / settings if compiz.real crashes but interestingly enough if I hit alt+f2 and type
[01:47] <Polt{laptop}> compiz --replace"
[01:47] <Polt{laptop}> "
[01:47] <Polt{laptop}> it restarts compiz and things work fine and it even remembers my settings. I tried to add it to the startup apps
[01:47] <Polt{laptop}> I do not know if it will make it take alot longer when booting up though
[01:47] <Polt{laptop}> well not booting rather but logging into X
[01:56] <blackest_knight> Polt{laptop}: you have a talent :)
[01:58] <blackest_knight> anyone noticed a problem with superblocks being in the future and needing a manual fsck
[02:00] <segfault2k> hi! im tryin to install karmic a5 but kdm askme for user & password
[02:00] <segfault2k> what can i do?
[02:02] <segfault2k> please?
[02:06] <segfault2k> hello?
[02:07] <ShapeShifter499> hi
[02:07] <ShapeShifter499> I all ready asked this in #ubuntu but no one seemed to know, I just installed java for powerpc ubuntu and I can't seem to get firefox to see the plugin
[02:08] <ShapeShifter499> what do I do?
[02:11] <ShapeShifter499> ahh nvm
[02:19] <MaximLevitsky> what xserver is used in karamic?
[02:19] <MaximLevitsky> 1.6 or i.7
[02:19] <MaximLevitsky> 1.7
[02:20] <tj83> anyone know if fglrx will be working with some of the hardware that was supported back in 8.04 for ATI card or is it basically a lost cause due to ATI's developers?
[02:21] <MaximLevitsky> tj83: I have heard that they (ati devs) dropped support for all card below and including r5xx
[02:22] <billybigrigger> tj83: i think ati cards work better than nv cards in karmic :P
[02:23] <billybigrigger> MaximLevitsky: 1.7 iirc
[02:23] <MaximLevitsky> billybigrigger: they said that they will stick with 1.6?
[02:25] <billybigrigger> MaximLevitsky: 1.6, your right
[02:25] <MaximLevitsky> really anybody know?
[02:25] <billybigrigger> just checked the package lists
[02:26] <tj83> ty guys
[02:27] <MaximLevitsky> billybigrigger: and nvidia driver doesn't work - right?
[02:27] <billybigrigger> yeah it does
[02:28] <MaximLevitsky> billybigrigger: you mean propertary driver, right?
[02:28] <bjsnider> the only nvidia driver that doen't work yet is the one for old junk hardware (pre geforce 6000 and later)
[02:28] <MaximLevitsky> great
[02:28] <billybigrigger> MaximLevitsky: what do you have? :P
[02:28] <MaximLevitsky> I am updating to it now
[02:28] <billybigrigger> MaximLevitsky: read those release notes
[02:28] <MaximLevitsky> geforce 8400M
[02:28] <billybigrigger> do a proper upgrade :)
[02:28] <billybigrigger> http://ubunut.com/testing/karmic/alpha5
[02:29] <MaximLevitsky> I already use git of kernel,nm,pulseaudio
[02:29] <MaximLevitsky> and wpa_supplicant
[02:30] <MaximLevitsky> currently can't update nm anymore, and it was a pain to update udev (I use new udev here as well)
[02:30] <NoelJB> nvidia 185.18.36 works well for me with karmic.
[02:30] <billybigrigger> what ever you do, DO NOT DO dist-upgrade!!!! :P
[02:30] <billybigrigger> that's all i'm sayin
[02:30] <MaximLevitsky> billybigrigger, why?
[02:30] <billybigrigger> that's why i said read the release notes, that's not how upgrades are done
[02:31] <MaximLevitsky> billybigrigger: how then to update?
[02:31] <billybigrigger> if you want to upgrade via CLI then follow the upgrade for server's
[02:31] <billybigrigger> read the relase notes!!! haha i gave you the link
[02:31] <billybigrigger> alt-f2 "update-manager -d"
[02:31] <billybigrigger> or if you prefer cli, follow the server upgrade notes
[02:31] <MaximLevitsky> billybigrigger: ah, I use sudo update-manager -d
[02:32] <billybigrigger> good, then, just no dist-uprades :P
[02:32] <MaximLevitsky> billybigrigger: how well karmic works, btw?
[02:33] <billybigrigger> good for me
[02:33] <billybigrigger> that doesn't mean much
[02:33] <billybigrigger> i don't know your hardware :)
[02:33] <MaximLevitsky> I don't care about kernel/pulse/wireless, I use my own compiled versions
[02:33] <billybigrigger> only thing that hasn't worked for me, due to the 2.6.30 kernel is my usb webcam
[02:34] <MaximLevitsky> billybigrigger: is is a usb camera?
[02:34] <MaximLevitsky> I mean UVC
[02:34] <MaximLevitsky> camera
[02:34] <billybigrigger> err 31-rc's i mean, not 30
[02:34] <billybigrigger> uvc? don't know what that is
[02:34] <billybigrigger> it's a microsoft vx-1000 and it uses the sonixj gspca kernel module
[02:34] <MaximLevitsky> This is new standard class of USB cameras
[02:35] <billybigrigger> other than that i don't know much about it :P
[02:35] <MaximLevitsky> billybigrigger: so it isn't UVC
[02:35] <billybigrigger> ok :P
[02:35] <billybigrigger> but ya, other than that, ext4 works great, grub2 works great
[02:35] <MaximLevitsky> you should post a mail to linux-media mailing list
[02:35] <MaximLevitsky> I already on ext4 too
[02:36] <billybigrigger> waiting to see how the new boot turns out...
[02:36] <billybigrigger> for what i do, my system has been fairly stable through out all the alpha stages
[02:36] <MaximLevitsky> but ext4 has one hidden 'bomb' - as soon as you try an old kernel, it won't boot..... for obivous reasons....
[02:37] <billybigrigger> anything older than .28 or is it .26 when ext4 was released as a stable fs?
[02:37] <MaximLevitsky> and I need sometimes to check an old kernels
[02:37] <billybigrigger> why?
[02:37] <MaximLevitsky> I have written a lirc driver
[02:37] <MaximLevitsky> and tried to test it against older versions
[02:37] <billybigrigger> ahh
[02:37] <billybigrigger> brb, i need to go smoke! :P
[02:38] <MaximLevitsky> WARNING: smoking is dangerous
[02:38] <MaximLevitsky> :-)
[02:47] <billybigrigger> hehe
[02:47] <billybigrigger> smoking is bad
[02:47] <billybigrigger> day 2 of quitting for me
[02:51] <MaximLevitsky1> billybigrigger: I understand you, I just never did start a drinking or smoking habbit
[02:52] <MaximLevitsky1> but I still have a drug I must take
[02:52] <MaximLevitsky1> the usage of linux
[02:52] <MaximLevitsky1> especially fixing things
[02:52] <MaximLevitsky1> I can't live without it....
[02:53] <MaximLevitsky1> linux is so amaizing
[02:53] <MaximLevitsky1> amazing
[02:53] <MaximLevitsky1> source open, and while I still do small things, I really feel that I can contribute
[02:59] <Polterge|st> I don't know if the gnome team could do this but it would be cool if they could bring another feature back from the older Gnome versions where you could see a small screenshot of your desktop in each workspace switcher square
[03:00] <Polterge|st> that way it would be like having real-time workspace switching
[03:00] <dto> hello ubuntu friends :)
[03:00] <Polterge|st> and real-time kernel I think really would be nice if it works with compiz
[03:00] <Polterge|st> I think it could potentially zero out the latency of the system to some degree since compiz uses resources on nearly any system
[03:01] <Polterge|st> then audio and video would do alot better I think
[03:02] <dto> question: is it no longer possible to completely disable the touchpad from System --> Preferences --> Mouse --> Touchpad ? i can only find "disable touchpad when typing". which seems to work ok
[03:02] <dto> i am on a toshiba laptop that is very nice in most ways, but the touchpad is not placed right for me. and i brush it while typing.
[03:02] <dto> so i would like to turn it off or at least toggle it somehow
[03:04] <Polt{laptop}> also good for the dev team to do when enhancing totem is to make it so that you can access the menubar options in the app even before the little mixer applet loads in the bottom righthand corner that way the program will seem more responsive and it will possibly cut down on wait time especially if it is allowing you to look for music while it is allowing the program to look for the sound device
[03:05] <Polterge|st> this is something else I have found that I think would be a nice tweak
[03:05] <Polterge|st> and of course autoaudiosink is getting latency and getting out of sync but part of this is probably related to a kernel problem with this version of the upstream kernel
[03:06] <Polterge|st> most likely that will be fixed once the kernel is patched
[03:07] <Polterge|st> once that is fixed, I think the audio problems will be resolved
[03:07] <Polterge|st> or most of them anyway
[03:07] <Polterge|st> until we start dealing with JACKS and timidity which I won't even go into right now ...
[03:08] <Polterge|st> I have JACKS and Timidity enabled also but ALSA is what most apps use anyway so that is why I would like to see this sync problem tweaked a bit
[03:08] <Polterge|st> it is getting better for sure but needs a little bit more work
[03:08] <Polterge|st> I can almost open up totem and play a playlist without it crashing now if I switch desktops
[03:09] <Polterge|st> it gets through a few songs
[03:09] <IndyGunFreak> what is telepathy, and why do i hear complaints about it?
[03:09] <Polterge|st> and then crashes
[03:09] <Polterge|st> IndyGunFreak, audio / voice library
[03:09] <Polterge|st> for empathy messenger
[03:09] <Polterge|st> it also can be implemented in a few other things
[03:09] <Polterge|st> it provides a transport for audio and video in messenger type apps like empathy
[03:10] <Polterge|st> current version of empathy isn't stable and is full of bugs
[03:10] <IndyGunFreak> yeah, so i noticed, i just installed pidgin
[03:10] <Polterge|st> I recommend pidgin with voice and webcam support compiled in as that should be available by now
[03:10] <billybigrigger> hehe sweet
[03:10] <Polterge|st> they talked about having that available awhile back
[03:11] <billybigrigger> only took me a few minutes to compile xorg from source
[03:11] <Polterge|st> and then said it would be released in later versions of Ubuntu probably but didn't give a definitely
[03:11] <billybigrigger> brb in X :P
[03:11] <Polterge|st> IndyGunFreak,  I would just wait for them to compile video / voice into pidgin and then it will pretty much have everything
[03:12] <Polterge|st> I think that is all it lacks
[03:12] <Polterge|st> it has a musictracker plugin and everything
[03:12] <billybigrigger> ahh there we go :P
[03:13] <Polterge|st> I can't see the interactive games across yahoo and msn as being too useful in pidgin so I do not forsee them being compiled in and they would really be a potential backdoor anyway and a possible security hazard so I think it would be better if they just stick with audio / video development for their next pidgin release
[03:13] <Polterge|st> I like its UI and can't find a ton of things to complain about in it
[03:13] <Polterge|st> except maybe ... sometimes it crashes when checking mail messages
[03:14] <Polterge|st> and the video / voice thing
[03:14] <DanaG> argh, stupid Wine... utterly FAILS at any audio.
[03:14] <DanaG> It's utterly silent, and doesn't even show up in pavucontrol!
[03:14] <Polterge|st> DanaG, yeah there will be workarounds for that I am sure
[03:14] <Polterge|st> I had ventrilo working in wine before
[03:14] <Polterge|st> with ALSA
[03:14] <IndyGunFreak> Polterge|st, i don't use video/voice chat anyways, maybe thast why i've always been very happy w/ pidgin
[03:14] <DanaG> Now it doesn't work at all.  It used to work "poorly".
[03:15] <DanaG> Now it just plain is BROKEN.  Entirely.
[03:15] <Polterge|st> IndyGunFreak, I think everyone would be more apt to use pidgin if it had video / voice
[03:15] <Polterge|st> people who want it and even those who do not want it
[03:15] <Polterge|st> everyone would win that way
[03:15] <bjsnider> DanaG, what does it use? is it alsa or pulse?
[03:16] <Polterge|st> the people that didn't want it would just disable it
[03:16] <Polterge|st> and the ones that did want it would leave it enabled
[03:16] <DanaG> I'm not sure.  I've even tried the winepulse ppa, and it doesn't offer the "pulse" driver!
[03:16] <IndyGunFreak> Polterge|st, i agree... why the hell do you have ao many names on, that makes tab complete a pain
[03:16] <Polterge|st> heh I just have 2 on
[03:16] <Polterge|st> 2 machines
[03:16] <Polterge|st> one isn't linux
[03:16] <Polterge|st> it is a failsafe
[03:16] <DanaG> Most specifically, I'm running WoW in it.
[03:16] <Polterge|st> just in case I break my OS
[03:18] <Polterge|st> what I notice currently in totem is that a song will play for awhile and then it loses track of where it is at and goes silent
[03:18] <IndyGunFreak> yeah, totem just froze on me for some reason, but i installed VLC and its fine
[03:19] <Polterge|st> VLC works well but since totem is the default player for alot of things in Ubuntu I thought I should point these things out so it will make for smoother and better performance out of Ubuntu with media in general since many things play on totem by default
[03:20] <Polterge|st> the guys in here appear to have taken a few of my suggestions from the looks of things
[03:20] <Polterge|st> and so that is one reason I wanted to point it out
[03:20] <NoelJB> does anyone know what to install for linux headers if installing linux-image-virtual?  there doesn't appear to be a matching headers .deb.
[03:21] <IndyGunFreak> Polterge|st, i agree
[03:21] <IndyGunFreak> now here's sometthing weird.
[03:21] <IndyGunFreak> why do the menus.. not have icons?
[03:21] <Polterge|st> I kind of noticed that earlier too
[03:22] <Polterge|st> it might just be a different menu theme
[03:22] <NoelJB> IndyGunFreak, upstream change, and starting to be an FAQ item
[03:23] <Polterge|st> I tried to set the renice value to 10
[03:23] <Polterge|st> maybe this will improve music streaming slightly
[03:23] <Polterge|st> it seemed improved from the updates but this may get rid of some of the crashing
[03:23] <Polterge|st> playing with renice
[03:24] <johnf> anyone seeing X corruption after suspend with KMS. eg gnome-terminals are invisible
[03:24] <arand> IndyGunFreak: You can revert in preferences>appearance^interface +relogin
[03:24] <IndyGunFreak> hmm, FF3 and Flash seem a bit easier on the resources
[03:25] <IndyGunFreak> arand, oh ok.. didn't notice that, thanks
[03:25] <IndyGunFreak> well, so far, i'm really diggin 9.10..
[03:26] <arand> IndyGunFreak: I'm guessing this is the new pet peeve after the update icon ;)
[03:26] <IndyGunFreak> but its only been a few minutes
[03:26] <IndyGunFreak> i need to test my desktop
[03:29] <IndyGunFreak> ok, another minor issue.
[03:29] <IndyGunFreak> i can't add work spaces
[03:29] <IndyGunFreak> i can only have 2.. when i change the number it reverts back to zero
[03:30] <Polterge|st> nice feature to be able to turn those icons on or off
[03:30] <IndyGunFreak> yup... brb
[03:31] <Polterge|st> this will be really nice when the multiple wallpaper thing is added in
[03:32] <Polterge|st> I think it is just a matter of time before they fix that
[03:32] <Polterge|st> and a few other things
[03:32] <Polterge|st> when Karmic gets to that stage I may take some screenshots
[03:33] <Polterge|st> also recompiling nautilus to be compatible that way I think will also fix the crash bug where turning off nautilus drawing the desktop causes nautilus to go into an infinite loop of trying to open if you click on nautilus
[03:33] <Polterge|st> for one, people wouldn't have to disable nautilus drawing the desktop if that were the case
[03:34] <Polterge|st> a function of this should be coded into nautilus and should be set so that if compiz is activated with the wallpaper plugin it will ignore GTK's multi wallpaper settings if they code GTK to have multi wallpaper settings in it
[03:34] <Polterge|st> this way there are less errors and faster load times for when gnome boots up
[03:35] <Polterge|st> and either way people could have multiple wallpapers that way with or without compiz
[03:35] <Polterge|st> it would use one compatibility or the other
[03:36] <IndyGunFreak> well its good to see the wallpapers for karmic still suck
[03:36] <Polterge|st> by default I think that isn't so bad though
[03:36] <IndyGunFreak> yea
[03:36] <Polterge|st> it kind of allows Ubuntu to be left up to the end user to customize
[03:37] <IndyGunFreak> but couldn't they do something better than brown?
[03:37] <Polterge|st> and that seems a bit better of an option I think than making it all look one way
[03:37] <Polterge|st> IndyGunFreak, well I do agree with that
[03:37] <Polterge|st> I think that Ubuntu would get further with light themes or dark themes installed by default
[03:37] <Polterge|st> like a black on white theme or similar
[03:37] <Polterge|st> or perhaps if Ubuntu had nature themes with the Ubuntu logo in the back of the wallpapers, etc
[03:37] <Polterge|st> or space themes
[03:38] <IndyGunFreak> so no idea why i can't add workspaces?
[03:38] <Polterge|st> it is part of the workspace switcher bug
[03:38] <Polterge|st> columns and rows are stuck at 0
[03:38] <alteregoa> i need a shamwow
[03:38] <IndyGunFreak> yea
[03:38] <Polterge|st> you can still change the preferences in gconf-editor though
[03:38] <IndyGunFreak> alteregoa, you mean the "scamwow"
[03:38] <alteregoa> yeah
[03:39] <IndyGunFreak> alteregoa, why would you need that for anything ?
[03:39] <alteregoa> to clean my dirty wife
[03:39] <Polterge|st> lol
[03:39] <alteregoa> she gets to wet
[03:39] <IndyGunFreak> lol
[03:39] <IndyGunFreak> a garden hose would be better
[03:40] <alteregoa> i gave her a new car so she's quiet
[03:42] <IndyGunFreak> dang, my wireless light works on alpha 5
[03:42] <IndyGunFreak> its never worked on any version of linux
[03:42] <Polterge|st> I bet when the bugs are ironed out there will be alot of improvements in this version
[03:44] <IndyGunFreak> polt, it sure seems that way
[03:46] <Polterge|st> well one thing I keep seeing mentioned is the realtime kernel
[03:46] <Polterge|st> and if my guess is right ...
[03:46] <IndyGunFreak> whats ubuntuone?
[03:46] <Polterge|st> I'm hoping they are doing what I think they are
[04:03] <Polterge|st> I don't know if this will help anyone but I am going to try it
[04:03] <Polterge|st> http://forum.foresightlinux.org/index.php?topic=300.0
[04:03] <Polterge|st> pulse audio tweaks
[04:04] <Polterge|st> and there is a tweak somewhere to set pulse to use 48000 instead of 44100
[04:06] <Polterge|st> I just restarted ALSA and probably pulse too
[04:36] <dto> where does epiphany put its downloads? i can't find them.
[04:37] <dto> sorry, that's silly
[04:56] <brian__> i need some help when i hit alt-f2 it doesnt start the launcher
[05:04] <Finnish> How can I manage an iPod? Rythmbox is not doing it for me
[05:13] <Polterge|st> ok I made some tweaks to my pulseaudio
[05:13] <Polterge|st> working better now
[05:13] <Polterge|st> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=789578
[05:14] <Polterge|st> I changed the resampler from speex-float-1 to ffmpeg
[05:14] <Polterge|st> changed the default sample rate from 44100 hz to 48000 hz
[05:14] <Polterge|st> since pulse supports that
[05:14] <Polterge|st> enabled auto respawn for the client portion of the config files
[05:15] <Polterge|st> I had shm enabled but for now I will leave that disabled in both things to test things out a bit more
[05:15] <Polterge|st> I want to read up on it more before I enable it as it could use extra memory
[05:15] <Polterge|st> I enabled realtime priority 5 though
[05:15] <Polterge|st> and I gave it realtime priority
[05:15] <Polterge|st> it should work better from that by itself
[05:16] <Polterge|st> I've noticed that pulseaudio isn't dying on me now
[05:16] <Polterge|st> I might need to tweak another setting or two
[05:16] <Polterge|st> I might play with different resamplers next
[05:17] <Polterge|st> these are your choices for resampler values
[05:17] <Polterge|st> src-sinc-best-quality, src-sinc-medium-quality, src-sinc-fastest, speex-float-{10-0}, speex-fixed-{10-0}, ffmpeg, src-zero-order-hold, src-linear, trivial
[05:18] <Polterge|st> if you edit /etc/pulse/daemon.conf you might try switcher the resampler value from speex-floating-1 out with one of those values
[05:26] <dto> yo
[05:30] <dto> i can't seem to auto-find my hp network printer anymore. it worked in jaunty. am i missing anything?
[05:30] <dto> it used to auto-detect everything. i'm sure the printer is on and working too.
[05:36] <Polterge|st> oh and meant to say that the resampler value is important concerning how well pulseaudio works
[05:36] <Polterge|st> I just set it to trivial
[05:36] <Polterge|st> I may play around with the speex codec settings
[05:36] <Polterge|st> so far it is responsive at trivial
[05:37] <Polterge|st> then they have a fastest setting also that might improve performance for audio playback
[05:37] <Polterge|st> not so great for sound editing
[05:38] <Polterge|st> I just set my resampler value to "trivial"
[05:38] <Polterge|st> playing with no audio skips or hangups now
[05:38] <Polterge|st> :)
[05:38] <Polterge|st> and it still sounds decent
[05:39] <Polterge|st> it isn't perfect but is still decent
[05:51] <dtchen> trivial is really craptastic
[05:51] <dtchen> that's why upstream ships speex-float-3
[05:51] <dtchen> (Karmic ships speex-float-1)
[05:52] <Polterge|st> ah
[05:52] <Polterge|st> well speex-float-1 isn't optimum
[05:52] <Polterge|st> and the value goes up to 10
[05:53] <dtchen> speex-float-10 is worse than speex-float-1
[05:54] <dtchen> and "optimum" is a difficult thing to account for
[05:54] <Polterge|st> well it depends on what you are saying is worse
[05:54] <dtchen> there are a crapton of HDA controllers that just fall over with anything worse than speex-float-3, particularly when it comes to DVDs
[05:55] <Polterge|st> if you mean for everyone else and are talking about playback then I dunno ... my playback in Jaunty was good and I know that the resampler looks like it is changed under that setting
[05:55] <Polterge|st> for me I am using speex 3 on it now and without any bugs
[05:56] <dtchen> that's good
[05:56] <dtchen> i'm not going to change from speex-float-1 for Karmic, though, since we went through two releases trying to figure out a good default
[05:57] <Polterge|st> ffmpeg worked good for me earlier
[05:57] <Polterge|st> true I suppose
[05:57] <Polterge|st> it is just that all computers are not new computers
[05:57] <Polterge|st> and you must take that into account
[05:57] <dtchen> i'm well aware of that
[05:57] <dtchen> speex-float-1 performs fine on my baseline machine, which is a PII/266
[05:58] <Polterge|st> yes but for how long ?
[05:58] <Polterge|st> :P
[05:58] <dtchen> how long? as long as PA is running
[06:02] <Polterge|st> I'm on a 1.2ghz machine with 512 mb of ram and have not had that kind of luck
[06:02] <Polterge|st> even tweaking it out
[06:05] <Polterge|st> I will see how long it plays for
[06:06] <Polterge|st> don't get me wrong I like the speex-float resampler option and maybe some other things I did will allow it to not crash on me this time but last time if I switched desktops or went to a different app for a moment the audio would crash
[06:06] <Polterge|st> speex-float has decent audio quality
[06:14] <Polterge|st> ok I changed the fragment length to 5 ms
[06:14] <Polterge|st> and changed default fragments to 10
[06:14] <Polterge|st> instead of 8
[06:15] <Polterge|st> that way it reads smaller fragments and picks up more of them at a time so that it has more read-ahead
[06:16] <billybigrigger> effin audiophiles
[06:16] <billybigrigger> haha, i'm happy i can listen to my mp3s and have audio in my xvid/mp4's :)
[06:18] <Polterge|st> :P
[06:18] <Polterge|st> well I am getting good results right now with totem at the moment since I tweaked that out
[06:18] <Polterge|st> I might try a higher quality codec if my settings work well enough for me
[06:18] <Polterge|st> it is just a matter of tweaking the magic number
[06:19] <Polterge|st> 12 fragments at 5 millisecond length
[06:19] <Polterge|st> that is what I have it set to use as default so it should be more responsive
[06:19] <Polterge|st> I may change it to 16 fragments and change the length to 3ms
[06:19] <Polterge|st> that way it breaks everything down more but has less stuttering
[06:19] <Polterge|st> it isn't stuttering at all right now but I want it to be exceptionally smooth
[06:20] <Polterge|st> with high quality audio
[06:20] <Polterge|st> speex-floating-1 is not stuttering at all now
[06:20] <alteregoa> e4defrag doesnt work?
[06:20] <alteregoa> its not in the kernel i think
[06:22] <bucky> uh oh.. what are all these pulseaudio updates?
[06:23] <Polterge|st> :)
[06:23] <Polterge|st> I kind of did my homework to figure out what would make pulse run a bit better so now I am getting good results out of it
[06:23] <Polterge|st> no lag at all
[06:25] <dtchen> Polterge|st: be aware that tsched largely does better by itself
[06:25] <Polterge|st> not in my case
[06:25] <dtchen> that's not due to PA, however. that's due to the kernel that we use.
[06:25] <Polterge|st> in my case I just fixed my audio lag and kept the speex-floating-1 codec
[06:26] <Polterge|st> dtchen,  I realize thtat
[06:26] <Polterge|st> that*
[06:26] <alteregoa> hdtv? highly dongled TV?
[06:26] <Polterge|st> it is just that until it is fixed or optimized I had to make adjustments to my pa settings
[06:26] <Polterge|st> I am playing with 15 fragments at 3ms a piece
[06:26] <Polterge|st> so far good
[06:27] <dtchen> i would revert that change and just use the RT PAM bits until we get the RtKit bits merged into linux.
[06:27] <Polterge|st> seems responsive
[06:27] <Polterge|st> well audio was crashing and wasn't working for me
[06:27] <dtchen> $ grep @audio /etc/security/limits.conf
[06:27] <dtchen> @audio           -       rtprio          99
[06:27] <dtchen> @audio           -       nice            -19
[06:27] <dtchen> @audio           -       memlock         unlimited
[06:27] <Polterge|st> and I remember the original values
[06:28] <Polterge|st> I have memlock I think also
[06:28] <dtchen> make sure you're using the latest Karmic PA package
[06:28] <Polterge|st> I am
[06:28] <Polterge|st> believe me on that
[06:28] <Polterge|st> I have been updating every 5 minutes
[06:28] <Polterge|st> lol
[06:28] <dtchen> the archive only refreshes once per hour
[06:29] <Polterge|st> well you know what I mean
[06:29] <dtchen> ii  pulseaudio                              1:0.9.16~test7-14-g7ca81-0ubuntu1
[06:29] <Polterge|st> :P
[06:29] <Polterge|st> I update every time they put them out
[06:36] <Polterge|st> I enabled the lock-memory feature and I will see if it enhances anything
[06:36] <Polterge|st> as you have shown above
[06:36] <Polterge|st> memlock has unlimited out beside it
[06:37] <Polterge|st> the way I can tell also is if I load up the sound prefs and switching between audio sound themes sounds muffled or garbled then I know there is a setting that should be tweaked
[06:37] <Polterge|st> also whether or not it crashes audio playback while a media player is playing audio
[06:38] <NoelJB> Polterge|st, "lock memory feature"?
[06:39] <Polterge|st> yeah
[06:39] <dtchen> there's one known sigsegv that i'm working on
[06:40] <Polterge|st> NoelJB,  look in /etc/pulse/daemon.conf
[06:40] <Polterge|st> since I've changed those settings I have 0 lag so far
[06:40] <Polterge|st> and going right from one song to another
[06:40] <Polterge|st> I might have lag for second if I am typing but it doesn't interrupt the audio and that is what  I want
[06:41] <Polterge|st> the only thing that lags for a moment is my text
[06:41] <Polterge|st> and that is not too important considering that the audio quality isn't messed up or garbled
[06:41] <NoelJB> dtchen, hey :-)  Wanted to let you know (you probably do), but the current (new?) code now does let me select amongst my various mics.  I'll need to test, but that is more user friendly for the masses.
[06:42] <Polterge|st> !pastebinit /etc/pulse/daemon.conf
[06:42] <NoelJB> Polterge|st, what did you change to?
[06:42] <Polterge|st> pastebinit /etc/pulse/daemon.conf
[06:42] <Polterge|st> I am trying to upload it to pastebin
[06:42] <Polterge|st> if you open that file up in a text editor and look at the values
[06:43] <Polterge|st> I have lock memory feature turned on
[06:43] <Polterge|st> and cpu-limit is set to no
[06:43] <Polterge|st> enabled high priority and nice level as -11
[06:43] <Polterge|st> remixing is enabled
[06:44] <Polterge|st> set default channel map to left and right front
[06:44] <Polterge|st> it should show that
[06:44] <Polterge|st> and default playback is set on mine to 48000 hz
[06:44] <Polterge|st> and then my fragments are set to 15 and fragment length is 3
[06:45] <Polterge|st> default channel samples are set to 2 also
[06:45] <Polterge|st> if you have more and use surround you can set more
[06:45] <NoelJB> Polterge|st, want to PM it to me?
[06:45] <Polterge|st> sure man
[06:46] <Polterge|st> that might help
[06:48] <Polterge|st> if that doesn't work NoelJB  I will pastebin it
[06:48] <NoelJB> ok
[06:49] <dtchen> note that we already disable cpu-limit as per upstream's change
[06:49] <Polterge|st> it was not disabled in mine
[06:49] <Polterge|st> heh
[06:50] <Polterge|st> I had to disable it
[06:50] <Polterge|st> http://pastebin.com/m4eb986a7
[06:50] <Polterge|st> try that NoelJB
[06:50] <Polterge|st> I have that setup and it is working pretty well for me with no audio drops right now
[06:50] <NoelJB> :-)
[06:50] <Polterge|st> I set a playlist of like 5 songs
[06:50] <Polterge|st> and it is playing through all of them with no drops
[06:51] <Polterge|st> and even when switching workspaces it doesn't interfere with it
[06:51] <dtchen> your resample-method is invalid
[06:51] <Polterge|st> actually I looked it up on a wiki
[06:51] <dtchen> it's speex-float-1 already by default
[06:52] <dtchen> $ grep speex /etc/pulse/daemon.conf
[06:52] <dtchen> resample-method = speex-float-1
[06:52] <Polterge|st> ah yeah
[06:52] <Polterge|st> you are right
[06:52] <Polterge|st> remove the ing
[06:52] <Polterge|st> hehe
[06:53] <Polterge|st> still though I am not having problems now so the other codec values may work fine too
[06:53] <Polterge|st> I will have to check it out
[06:54] <dtchen> NoelJB: yes, i added it specifically
[06:54] <NoelJB> dtchen, oh?  when, and THANK YOU!  :-D
[06:55] <dtchen> several days ago; i've been staging them in the ~ubuntu-audio-dev PPA
[06:55] <Polterge|st> yeah
[06:58] <NoelJB> dtchen, :-)  I've been using the PPA for the past 4 days or so.  Keep up the good work.  :-)  Again, thanks.  :-)
[06:58] <Polterge|st> yeah pulse is definitely improving
[07:02] <NoelJB> Polterge|st, "Linux audio -- it's enough to get your pulse racing!"  :-)
[07:02] <billybigrigger> make a tshirt :P
[07:02] <Polterge|st> I lol
[07:02] <Polterge|st> lol
[07:02] <Polterge|st> good shirt idea
[07:07] <Polterge|st> ok I am going to see if I can get it down to 2 millisecond fragments
[07:07] <NoelJB> :-)
[07:08] <Polterge|st> since the value I had before was 60 that I wanted to target I might try 30 fragments of 2 ms
[07:08] <Polterge|st> 60 milliseconds is processed quicker than 80
[07:08] <Polterge|st> default is 80
[07:08] <Polterge|st> this is why this may help out a bit
[07:09] <Polterge|st> although less fragments helps too so there has to be a balance there
[07:31] <dto> is it me or did youtube suddenly start requiring flashplayer 10?
[07:31] <dto> it was working an hour ago
[07:31] <dto> i watched my video
[07:31] <Dr_Willis> hmm
[07:32] <dto> now all it says is click here to download plugin.
[07:32] <Dr_Willis> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwMdE5z5KGw&feature=popular
[07:32] <Dr_Willis> works here.
[07:32] <Dr_Willis> Faimly safe video.. :)
[07:32] <dto> will removing my .mozilla directory screw everything up?
[07:32] <dto> i had something in there that was messing up my firefox
[07:32] <Dr_Willis> you could move it to some other name.
[07:32] <Dr_Willis> as a test
[07:32] <dto> i already did it
[07:33] <dto> i'm wondering if that didn't screwup the plugin.
[07:33] <NoelJB> dto, working for me.
[07:34] <NoelJB> dto, mind you I *have* Flash 10 installed.
[07:34] <dto> do i need to install the flashplugin-nonfree package?
[07:34] <Polterge|st> ok so far I am using src-sinc-best-quality in pulse audio's settings with 3ms fragments and at 15 fragments with no lag
[07:35] <Polterge|st> that seems like a good sign
[07:35] <NoelJB> dto flashplugin-installer  <IP_ADDRESS>ubuntu1
[07:35] <dto> i'm liking this new karmic.
[07:35] <Polterge|st> yeah the new Karmic is nice
[07:35] <Polterge|st> as it gets better and better I like it more and more
[07:36] <dto> works :)
[07:36] <dto> thanks folks
[07:36] <Dr_Willis> I hope weechat 3.0.0 gets into karmic repos. :) it was just released this weekend.
[07:36] <dto> i did file a bug for the rt kernel.
[07:36] <dto> it hangs
[07:38] <alteregoa> et dixerot est vidissi
[07:38] <alteregoa> yeah karmic is worth to upgrade from bounty
[07:39] <alteregoa> i just miss USB 3
[07:39] <NoelJB> bounty?
[07:39] <alteregoa> err hardy
[07:39] <alteregoa> i hope the next codename is laurel
[07:40] <alteregoa> gmailfs doesnt work i seen
[07:42] <alteregoa> quo vadis?
[07:47] <Dr_Willis> 'There was no Quid pro Quo!'
[07:51] <Polterge|st> something else I tried with my pulseaudio settings and I dunno if it will affect anything but I changed my default samples to 8
[07:51] <Polterge|st> default channels for samples
[07:51] <Polterge|st> I'm thinking that if your machine can handle it having more channels isn't a bad thing
[07:52] <Polterge|st> I remember in many of the older video games they had settings to adjust that in the sound effects section and more was usually better because it spreads things out I think over more channels
[07:52] <Polterge|st> think of an 8 channel mixer board or 16 channel
[07:52] <Polterge|st> or 32 channel
[07:53] <Polterge|st> I might switch to 32 from 8 in a moment and see what kind of different I notice
[07:53] <alteregoa> how can i disable fraggle algorythm?
[07:53] <Polterge|st> meaning that I might be able to emulate 32 channels with this setup and src-sinc-best-quality as my resampler
[07:53] <Polterge|st> fraggle
[07:53] <Polterge|st> hmmm
[07:53] <Polterge|st> I could google it
[07:54] <alteregoa> !google fraggle algorythm
[07:54] <alteregoa> [Google] #1 Molly Rocket :: Search ( https://mollyrocket.com/forums/search.php?search_author=fraggle&sid=91b12b59c7928e612b5a4b7f6d7d9d91 )
[07:54] <alteregoa> [Google] Desc: fraggle. Replies: 95. Views: 45399, Post Forum: GJK and friends Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:47 pm Subject: GJK algorithm implementation video ...
[07:54] <Polterge|st> it says it is a DDOS
[07:55] <Polterge|st> the best thing I can tell you is that it will have to do with your firewall settings
[07:55] <Polterge|st> and maybe a timeout they are using on that exploit
[07:55] <alteregoa> i use a snort firewall
[07:55] <Polterge|st> they probably use a default timeout and hence changing the way your firewall responds to UDP might make it so that their attack no longer works
[07:56] <Polterge|st> also blocking certain ip's to UDP protocol
[07:58] <jarkko> the recently upgraded zlib-dev seems to be broken :(
[07:59] <jarkko> I cannot compile anymore against it (works fine with 1:<IP_ADDRESS>.dfsg-13ubuntu1)
[08:44] <Polterge|st> the only thing I notice that could be tweaked now is maybe rhythmbox starting a split second late on songs
[08:44] <Polterge|st> I have my audio settings though cranked up so that is a good thing I suppose
[08:44] <Polterge|st> probably has to do more with the kernel
[08:44] <dto> Polterge|st: do you have the rt kernel installed?
[08:45] <Polterge|st> no
[08:45] <Polterge|st> dto, does it work with compiz yet ?
[08:45] <dto> i don't know.
[08:45] <Polterge|st> I know last time it would crash
[08:45] <Polterge|st> or hang
[08:45] <dto> i use metacity.
[08:45] <Polterge|st> if you had compiz running it would anyway
[08:45] <Polterge|st> I use both
[08:45] <Polterge|st> metacity and compiz
[08:45] <alteregoa> where is mumu land?
[08:46] <dto> Polterge|st: is that the same as enabling Compositing Window Manager under Metacity in gconf-editor? or is compiz something different/
[08:46] <Polterge|st> yes very
[08:46] <dto> ok
[08:46] <Polterge|st> well you can have compositing enabled under gconf editor but still have compiz enabled
[08:47] <alteregoa> i eat a fnord
[08:47] <Polterge|st> however if you use emerald you have to disable compositing in metacity
[08:47] <dto> how do i find out if compiz is what is making the rt kernel crash for me?
[08:47] <dto> it happens after X login
[08:47] <Polterge|st> then you end up having to set compiz-manager to use emerald
[08:47] <Polterge|st> do you have compiz installed dto ?
[08:48] <dto> Polterge|st: yes.
[08:48] <dto> but i don't think compiz is running.
[08:48] <Polterge|st> simply disable desktop effects
[08:48] <Polterge|st> if the desktop effects are not enabled then it isn't running
[08:48] <dto> ok.
[08:48] <Polterge|st> that is the best way to see if compiz is affecting it
[08:48] <dto> i didn't like it because it only lets me have 2 desktops.
[08:49] <dto> but maybe that's been fixed.
[08:49] <Polterge|st> what compiz ?
[08:49] <Polterge|st> naaa there is a workaround
[08:49] <Polterge|st> you can change the settings one of two ways
[08:49] <Polterge|st> either in gconf-editor
[08:49] <Polterge|st> or in ccsm
[08:49] <Polterge|st> at the top 3 boxes ... I think it is the one for gnome compatibility
[08:49] <Polterge|st> either that or general
[08:50] <Polterge|st> and there is a section in there that lets you alter your number of desktops
[08:50] <Polterge|st> I set mine to 1 desktop with 6 width and 2 depth
[08:50] <Polterge|st> so basically 12 desktops
[08:52] <dto> hmm. trying to enable desktop effects made the x server logout.
[08:52] <dto> anyway, i'm sure compiz is not running now :)
[08:52] <dto> i filed a bug on launchpad about my rt kernel, hopefully someone will be able to help
[08:52] <alteregoa> whats the codename after karmic?
[08:52] <dto> koala
[08:53] <alteregoa> after karmic koala, 10,4?
[08:53] <dto> oh. i don't know.
[08:53] <alteregoa> maybe a .34 kernel who knows
[09:03] <Dr_Willis> Lactating Lamma
[09:03] <Dr_Willis> :)
[09:03] <dto> hehe
[09:03] <Dr_Willis> Mascadacating Moose
[09:04] <Dr_Willis> once we get past Z - they are going to start using Bacterium Names.
[09:05] <Dr_Willis> Ambling Amoeba
[09:08] <alteregoa> lactatic cameleon
[09:10] <alteregoa> licking leguan
[09:18] <Dr_Willis> and who says Ubuntu isent 'professional' :)
[10:13] <Fudge> any reports of alpha5 via wubi install desktop i386 grub syntax errors?
[10:24] <eagles0513875> im having issues with it on a macbook duel booting for some reason
[10:24] <eagles0513875> and getting grub installed
[10:25] <Fudge> i got grub syntax errors
[10:34] <Dr_Willis> Fudge:  ive herad others in here saying it dont work...
[10:34] <Dr_Willis> and some issues with macbooks also.
[10:34] <Dr_Willis> but thats all  i know on the topic
[10:40] <Polterge|st> this is why I am using grub legacy again
[10:40] <Polterge|st> :)
[10:40] <Polterge|st> and no problems from me
[10:40] <Polterge|st> :D
[10:40] <Polterge|st> audio is tweaked and sounding great
[10:40] <Polterge|st> system is responsive
[10:40] <Polterge|st> and so far no problems
[10:44] <Dr_Willis> Ive not had any issues with grub2.
[10:45] <Dr_Willis> i am having issues where i customize an icon on the desktop (on a hard drive in this case) and the nautilus crashes and tries to restart itself like 1000 times
[10:45] <Dr_Willis> I must have 400 instances  in the panel now.. then they close theirselfs out
[10:46] <Fudge> wow
[10:46] <Dr_Willis> and its repeatable.
[10:46] <Dr_Willis> Take a folder on the desktop.. properties, try changing the icon to some other png
[10:47] <Fudge> well i loaded the iso with poweriso told to isntall inside windows with wubi then it rebooted. would that be any part of my problem?
[10:47] <Dr_Willis> I dont even LOOK at wubi. ive heard so many issues with it.
[10:47] <Dr_Willis> Id perfer to use virtualbox and just run the os in that.
[10:48] <Fudge> im noob i guess and dont know how to restore grub if i come along and install windows afterward
[10:48] <Fudge> its bit more challenging not being able to read the words on the screen as im legally-blind
[10:48] <Dr_Willis> You really MIGHT not want to be testing out  the aplha releases then :)
[10:48] <Fudge> would this be a bad place to ask what package to apt-get remove to stop cpu stepping?
[10:49] <Dr_Willis> im not sure what pakcage handles it.. of or theres not a group of related tools
[10:49] <Fudge> Dr_Willis of course you're right mate but i like bleeding edge and figure its good way to learn by running into problems. orca was broken kinda in 9.04 and needed bit of fix with pulse i think
[10:56] <Finnish> How do I manage my iPod? Rhythmbox doesn
[10:56] <Dr_Willis> !ipod
[10:56] <Dr_Willis> That covers my knowledge of ipods. :)
[10:56] <Finnish> Ok!
[11:01] <Finnish> What, this RockBox is a firmware for my iPod?
[11:05] <Dr_Willis> yes. a hacked firmware from what i gather.
[11:17] <tomas1> hey guys whats the difference between 9.04 and 9.10
[11:18] <alankila> 0.06 in favour of 9.10
[11:18] <tomas1> what that mean
[11:19] <alankila> new pulseaudio? new gnome? new looks? I don't know. :-/
[11:19] <Dr_Willis> everything is updated.. of course
[11:19] <tomas1> yea i gathered that
[11:19] <Dr_Willis> and they alwyas tweak/change the artwork a little
[11:19] <Dr_Willis> web site on karmic mentions the major changes.
[11:21] <tomas1> but does 9.04 have gnome 2.26
[11:21] <Dr_Willis> biggest change so far is Grub2 :) it seems
[11:22] <Dr_Willis> tomas1:  No...
[11:22] <Dr_Willis> # /media/Windows was on /dev/sda1 during installation
[11:22] <Dr_Willis> UUID=6A62B9CC1192CB2D /media/Windows  ntfs    defaults,nls=utf8,umask=007,gid=46 0       1
[11:22] <Dr_Willis> oops
[11:22] <Dr_Willis> 2.27.1 here :)
[11:22] <tomas1> how do you know what it has then
[11:22] <Dr_Willis> 2.27.91  oops  Typo
[11:22] <Dr_Willis> I looked in the GNOME menus. :0
[11:22] <tomas1> ok how
[11:23] <Dr_Willis> says Version 2.27.91  in the 'about gnome' dialog
[11:23] <tomas1> im running 9.04 and my gnome is 2.26.1
[11:23] <Dr_Willis> That makes sence...
[11:23] <Dr_Willis> !info gnome
[11:24] <tomas1> so how do i upgrade it to what you have
[11:24] <Dr_Willis> i said i have
[11:24] <Fudge> !info orca
[11:24] <Dr_Willis>  2.27.91
[11:24] <Fudge> oh dear
[11:24] <Dr_Willis> !info gnome-orca
[11:25] <Dr_Willis> Fudge:  andi recall there being some changes to orca or the addationof some other reader.. but  i forget where i saw that at
[11:25] <tomas1> ok
[11:25] <tomas1> whats better KDE or Gnome
[11:26] <Fudge> ah
[11:26] <Dr_Willis> tomas1:  whatever one you perfer.
[11:26] <tomas1> im new to linux so i have only ever used Gnome
[11:26] <Hirato> when running usb-creator-kde, I'm told it can't find the module: uic
[11:27] <Hirato> in which package can I find said python module?
[11:27] <Dr_Willis> Hmm
[11:27] <Dr_Willis> !find uic
[11:27] <Dr_Willis> eww...
[11:28] <Hirato> searching for uic, uic python, or uic py (the first being the only one that returns results), gives none obvious results
[11:29] <Fudge> i want to load speech-dispatcher on system bootup and believe it has to go in inet, how do u do it?
[11:29] <Fudge> :$
[11:33] <Dr_Willis> ubunut dosent use  the inetd stuff .  if its a service type tool youmay want to launch it from /etc/rc.local as an easy way
[11:34] <Dr_Willis> that will get it launching just as all teh services are done.
[11:36] <Dr_Willis> !appdb
[11:37] <Hirato> "Kpackagekit requires authorization to stop a process that was not started by yourself" <-- I see this as potentially being VERY annoying
[11:38] <Hirato> how is kpackagekit even getting access for apt-cache anyway
[11:39] <Hirato> I also must complain that the "greyed out" icons look too similar for "install this" "remove this" "update this", etc, it's very difficult to differentiate between them
[11:40] <Dr_Willis> I see a few other kde popup dialogs quite often also.
[11:43] <Hirato> !help find
[11:43] <Hirato> !find PyQT4 uic
[11:44] <Hirato> oh screw this, I'll just use the gtk version
[11:44] <acicula> Doing network analysis with ruby/pcap, and get coredump on parsing a pcap file. gdb says 0x00007ffff7b2f307 in rb_newobj () from /usr/lib/libruby1.8.so.1.8
[11:45] <acicula> problem does not exist on 9.04
[11:46] <acicula> anything i could investigate, or just wait for a rebuild?
[11:49] <Hirato> I don't suppose you've a bigger backtrace?
[12:09] <nzmm> has anyonw noticed quite high gconfd-2 cpu usage (~20-25%) whilst idle?
[12:10]  * Dr_Willis checks htop
[12:11] <Dr_Willis> not seeing it here nzmm
[12:12] <Le-Chuck_ITA> Hi, in the end what was the decision w.r.t. replacing pidgin with empathy?
[12:12] <acicula> i do have a longer backtrace yeh
[12:12] <acicula> oh he left :/
[12:13] <Dr_Willis> nzmm:  i see it using 0% cpu and .2% mem here.
[12:14] <nzmm> Dr_Willis:  I am watching the process in top and it sat around 25% cpu
[12:15] <nzmm> wierd
[12:15] <Dr_Willis> my whole cpu  ussage with everything i got going.. is only like 4%  :)
[12:16] <nzmm> mine is only 45% idle! AMD64 3GHz dual core (or some such)
[12:16] <alankila> nzmm: try killing metacity if you have compiz
[12:17] <alankila> there's an old bug about that at least
[12:17] <nzmm> alankila: THAT DID IT!
[12:17] <nzmm> thanks
[12:17] <alankila> yeah, sucks, right? Well, I hope they get that thing squashed before the release.
[12:26] <eagles0513875> AHHHHHHHH this keeps getting better and better on my vm
[12:33] <nzmm> eagles0513875, yea karmic is nice imho
[12:33] <eagles0513875> agreed
[12:33] <eagles0513875> it is but im having one hella time getting it to duel boot on my macbook pro using boot camp
[12:33] <eagles0513875> wiht alternate cd it doesnt like any location i put grub in wither it be /dev/sda or sda4
[12:34] <eagles0513875> and the live cd drops me down to a command propt cuz there are issues with x
[12:34] <eagles0513875> this is on alpha 5 btw
[12:34] <nzmm> I have a PC with XP, so i have never had any dual boot troubles :)
[12:34] <gnomefreak> eagles0513875: did you try yaboot?
[12:34] <eagles0513875> ?
[12:35] <eagles0513875> i have vista on here running it currently in a vbox vm
[12:35] <gnomefreak> its an alternative to boot camp IIRC
[12:35] <nzmm> i just wish pyclutter 1.0 was in the repositories...
[12:39] <eagles0513875> gnomefreak: O_O with jaunty i have no issues using bootcamp though
[12:41] <Trewas> "duel boot" is amusingly common typo, no wonder it is causing problems, that's practically the definition :)
[12:48] <gnomefreak> eagles0513875: could be ext4 causing issues ;)
[12:49] <eagles0513875> O_O
[12:49] <eagles0513875> on my macbook
[12:50] <gnomefreak> it was a thought
[12:51] <eagles0513875> possible but then with jaunty i believe i formatted with ext4
[12:52] <eagles0513875> btw gnomefreak konsole is broken lol after todays updates
[12:53]  * gnomefreak thankful i use gnome
[12:53] <eagles0513875> hehe
[12:54] <gnomefreak> im stil trying to figure out why PA keeps muting after updates
[13:56] <BluesKaj> G'day
[13:57] <eagles0513875> BluesKaj: have you updated karmic today
[13:57] <eagles0513875> if so can u test konsole for me im having issues with it loading but not showing anything on screen
[13:58] <Dr_Willis> konsole is working here.
[13:59] <Dr_Willis> updating..
[13:59] <David-T> anyone here having problems with clamv spontaneously breaking itself? (/var/lib/clamav/main.cvd becomes corrupted, requiring rm /var/lib/clamav/main.cvd && freshclam to fix)?
[13:59] <David-T> as this is randomly and silently causing all my mail to get stuck
[13:59] <Dr_Willis> Hmm.. been using clamav here today a few times. Not seen that problem
[14:00] <BluesKaj> eagles0513875, yup just updated, terminal loads fine
[14:00] <Dr_Willis> breaks after reboots?
[14:00] <eagles0513875> Dr_Willis: it was wworking till i updated it today im running it in a vbox vm
[14:00] <eagles0513875> wont load anymore for me
[14:00] <Dr_Willis> I just installed it today. Not seen any issues
[14:01] <Dr_Willis> konsole is also working eagles0513875
[14:01] <eagles0513875> humm
[14:01] <BluesKaj> eagles0513875, try konsole in the runbox
[14:01] <eagles0513875> strange i think i have a secrewed up vm
[14:01] <Dr_Willis> Only issue i got lately is Nautilus crashing when i customize a directorys icon
[14:01] <Dr_Willis> well bbl
[14:02] <eagles0513875> strange now im getting no responsiveness at all from anythign on the widget at the bottom of my screen#
[14:03] <BluesKaj> eagles0513875, did you try the run command 'konsole'
[14:03] <eagles0513875> i have no menu responsiveness at all
[14:04] <alteregoa> nodum in scirpo quaerere
[14:04] <eagles0513875> ?
[14:06] <BluesKaj> eagles0513875, do I have to ask you again ? right click on the desktop choose the run command
[14:06] <alteregoa> 1 month to go
[14:06] <eagles0513875> sry i had no responsiveness  on the desktop as well
[14:06] <eagles0513875> rebooted and just logged in on to the vm
[14:07] <BluesKaj> ok
[14:07] <eagles0513875> now its working O_O
[14:09] <BluesKaj> I don't like vms...too flaky
[14:11] <eagles0513875> hehe ya but im not reinstalling nor do i have the space on my desktop
[14:11] <eagles0513875> having enough issues with bugs on windows
[14:13] <BluesKaj> I use windows cuz iIhave to , but it's on a separate partition
[14:14] <arand> Does, tab completion fail for anyone else in gnome-terminal when using sudo?
[14:14] <alteregoa> i goauld a problem with bananarama.exe
[14:18] <zniavre> !gdm2
[14:18] <zniavre> !gdm
[14:18] <alteregoa> !gdm3
[14:19] <BluesKaj> alteregoa, bananarama.exe is a windows exec , are you using wine ?
[14:19] <alteregoa> yeah i executed windows
[14:19] <alteregoa> but now im a linux user and run all my stuff on wine
[14:19] <BluesKaj> !wine
[14:21] <alteregoa> i just wait for drag and drop stuff, hope someone make it possible
[14:22] <arand> alteregoa: bananarama.exe? sounds just like potential malware...
[14:23] <alteregoa> yeah
[14:23] <BluesKaj> alteregoa, install the app with wine , and then find it in the apps menu under wine and right click on the app and add it to your panel or desktop
[14:23] <alteregoa> yeah its malware, it has some naked girlbands from the 80s in it
[14:24] <BluesKaj> what's the codec?
[14:25] <alteregoa> celp
[14:25] <alteregoa> or melp
[14:25] <BluesKaj> ?
[14:26] <BluesKaj> nm ...I help ppl with real probs :)
[14:59] <andresmh> I put my laptop to sleep last night and after waking it up, the keyboard didn't respond at all (mouse did). I had to power it off and then on. Is there a way I can send a useful bug report about this?
[15:02] <cwillu> andresmh, could the mouse interact with anything, or was it just moving mouse cursor on an otherwise frozen screen?
[15:02] <andresmh> cwillu, just moving on a frozen screen
[15:02] <cwillu> andresmh, video driver hang
[15:02] <cwillu> andresmh, what video chipset?
[15:03] <andresmh> cwillu,  lspci | grep VGA
[15:03] <andresmh> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 0c)
[15:03] <cwillu> were you fairly recent on updates and the like?
[15:03] <andresmh> yes. Last update was about 10hrs ago.
[15:03] <cwillu> does it consistently occur?
[15:04] <andresmh> I see there are new updates now but nothing related to video AFIK
[15:04] <andresmh> I dont put my laptop to sleep that often but it has happened at least once before
[15:05] <andresmh> the only pattern I've noticed is that it might happen when there are lots of windows open (maybe 6) when I put the computer to sleep
[15:06] <cwillu> andresmh, there's some useful trace information that can be obtained if you switch to a vt before suspending (and therefore triggering suspend via pm-suspend):  on resume, the state of the video hardware can be written out to disk, at which point you can switch back to x and see if you get a hang
[15:06] <cwillu> But first things first :p
[15:07] <cwillu> See if you can trigger it somewhat consistently, and if so, file a bug via ubuntu-bug xorg
[15:08] <cwillu> andresmh, https://wiki.ubuntu.org/X/Troubleshooting/Freeze
[15:08] <cwillu> sorry, ubuntu-bug xorg-server
[15:09] <andresmh> thanks cwillu
[15:10] <andresmh> cwillu, "Package xorg-server does not exist"
[15:10] <cwillu> maybe it is just xserver-xorg
[15:10] <cwillu> sorry, corrected myself with a wiki page which would also be wrong now that I look at it :p
[15:11] <BluesKaj> it's usually xserver-xorg
[15:11] <BluesKaj> but editing it successfully is a challenge now
[15:12] <cwillu> editing which?
[15:14] <BluesKaj> xorg.conf
[15:15] <cwillu> xorg.conf isn't relevant to his problem
[15:15] <cwillu> it may be relevant to some debugging, although the hardware state dump is far more useful to upstream anyway
[15:16] <BluesKaj> I was just musing about the old days when it was fun to fix stuff in /etc/X11/xorg.con
[15:16] <BluesKaj> conf
[15:16] <cwillu> heh
[15:16] <cwillu> 'fix'
[15:17] <cwillu> aka, choose whether you wanted xaa brokenness, exa other-brokenness or uxa cool-new-brokenness :p
[15:17] <BluesKaj> cynic :)
[15:18] <cwillu> BluesKaj, I triaged intel bugs during jaunty's release cycle :p
[15:18] <cwillu> brb
[15:20] <cwillu> andresmh, anyways, if you don't mind, it's _really_ useful when we have people who have bugs who are able to spend some time getting things able to be upstreamed
[15:20] <fagan> Hey all, im getting an error http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/266684/ in karmic ubuntu when I run gnome-zeitgeist lp:~gnome-zeitgeist/gnome-zeitgeist/new-interface it works in jaunty but not karmic. So anyone know what the problem is?
[15:20] <cwillu> andresmh, intel bug fixes only happen when we have a specific user with a bug who can respond to questions and get all the required data in order
[15:21] <cwillu> andresmh, so if you're willing, this will be a tremendous help
[15:22] <cwillu> andresmh, #ubuntu-x should be quite willing to help you get everything in order in that regard
[15:25] <djdarkman> can someone tell me why is karmic's USB system not working and how can I make it work? it doesn't seem to give a damn about anything I connect to my machine
[15:26] <fagan> djdarkman: My all my usb ports are working
[15:26] <djdarkman> fagan: mine too, but only at boot
[15:27] <fagan> Mine work all the time. usb is fairly bullet proof by now
[15:27] <djdarkman> I uplugged a mouse and then pluged it back and it simply did not work same with external hard drives
[15:27] <fagan> djdarkman: Do you have all updates installed
[15:27] <djdarkman> it looks broken to me
[15:27] <djdarkman> yes fagan up to date system
[15:28] <fagan> djdarkman: 32bit or 64bit?
[15:28] <dto> i can't seem to get gnome-shell working
[15:28] <djdarkman> 32 bit fagan
[15:28] <fagan> Im on 64bit so I dont know if there is a 32bit problem
[15:29] <fagan> Anyone else on 32bit around?
[15:29] <arand> Bash completion not working, what would be the package to report against?
[15:30] <fagan> Bash completion ?
[15:30] <djdarkman> this is a very old karmic bug, I can't imagine how could it go so far without being fixed
[15:31] <fagan> any python devs around that can help me with my problem?
[15:32] <arand> try writing sudo ca[TAB] on updated KK, seems not to work...
[15:32] <fagan> Oh that
[15:32] <djdarkman> what package should I file a bug against if the USB system seems to be on vacation?
[15:33] <fagan> It works on my machine
[15:33] <fagan> bash completion I mean
[15:33] <arand> fagan: hmm...
[15:33] <fagan> arand: 64bit or 32bit?
[15:36]  * djdarkman thinks that launchpad should have more sense with those package names so that non-developers could report bugs without wasting time figuring them out
[15:37] <arand> fagan: ah, nvm, my .bashrc is kaputt.
[15:37] <fagan> ah
[15:38] <fagan> djdarkman: I agree its annoying having to put in nearly the exact name for everything
[15:39] <djdarkman> and they will probably tell me off for reporting every hardware related bug against "linux"
[15:39]  * cwillu is back
[15:40] <cwillu> djdarkman, that seems unlikely, but on the other hand I've missed all of the context :p
[15:42] <djdarkman> cwillu: every time I want to report a hardware related bug, I spend more than 30 minutes finding the apropriate package, just to give up and report it against "linux", and let the developers/admins decide where it should go, and I have abosultely no easy way of figuring out what to report against
[15:42] <cwillu> djdarkman, that's perfectly fine.  If you don't know, guessing something more specific doesn't help anybody
[15:43] <cwillu> most hardware related bugs need fairly deep understanding of how the subsystems relate
[15:43] <djdarkman> I mean, I googled, I checked the wikis(which is bad IMHO), but I still have no clue, because some packagees are there but I can't report against
[15:43] <fagan> but the one most people wrongly report bugs against is ubuntu-docs
[15:43] <arand> djdarkman: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage as well?
[15:43] <cwillu> djdarkman, no, reporting against linux is quite acceptable
[15:45] <cwillu> whether a bug is in the udev rules, or parameters to a module, or the use of one module instead of another, etc is a fairly subtle thing
[15:45] <fagan> bug reports against ubuntu-docs annoy the hell out of me because every second bug report against it has nothing to do with it
[15:48] <djdarkman> maybe Apport/ubuntu-bug should be a little helpfull
[15:49] <fagan> well they should report it against the package. Id say they just dont understand what ubuntu-doc stands for.
[15:50] <djdarkman> arand: that page btw is not too helpfull, at least not for me
[15:51] <cwillu> djdarkman, it says what I already told you:  assign it to linux :p
[15:52]  * BluesKaj wonders about a separate chat (or if one already exists) for reporting bugs is in order, like a bug clearing house where ppl with triage experience can guide or point those with bugs in the right direction
[15:52] <fagan> well in karmic some of the device stuff moves from hal to devicekit  so its like devicekit-power etc.. I think
[15:53] <fagan> BluesKaj: You could just go to launchpad and look at the list
[15:53] <cwillu> yes, but it's still the case that guessing which component is the source of the problem is just going to end up putting your bug in front of a smaller group of triagers, without any matching guarantee that it's actually relevant to them
[15:53] <cwillu> BluesKaj, like #ubuntu-bugs?
[15:54] <BluesKaj> hmm, it's an idea
[15:55] <cwillu> BluesKaj, I mention it because it exists :)
[15:55] <BluesKaj> not for me , I've recoe=rded only one bug and it tok me a while to file it under the proper subject
[15:58] <BluesKaj> that was weeks ago , about the widget -network-manager not connecting properly ...it didn't get fixed for a long time so i switched to wicd
[15:59] <BluesKaj> the default network manager is still flaky from reports I see avery day
[16:01] <fagan> I think its ok
[16:01] <arand> Hmm, I often have to run a poke-script to get it to connect :/
[16:01] <arand> to wlan that is
[16:09] <BluesKaj> one shouldn't have to use a scipt in init.d or anywhere else to make a necessary app work , it should install and initialize properly, especially in jaunty. I see ppl desperately reinstalling ndiswrapper as a fix for their probs ... I guess they should expect that in testing versions
[16:10] <cwillu> BluesKaj, ndiswrapper has nothing to do with networkmanager though, that's at a lower level
[16:11] <BluesKaj> cwillu, I undersdtand that but a lot of ppl google and that's what they comne up with as a solution
[16:13] <fagan> very true
[16:15] <BluesKaj> most ppl looking for help are former windows users like me, who are just trying to setup a working linux system because they know it can be safe and stable with a little work
[16:25] <Polterge|st> ok this is one of the next things I think they need to implement
[16:25] <Polterge|st> http://forum.compiz-fusion.org/showthread.php?t=6199
[16:25] <Polterge|st> the instructions to do it are right there
[16:26] <Polterge|st> they just need to precompile or make a deb package that already has all that and put it in the repos with the latest src of each component
[16:26] <Polterge|st> it even gives a howto
[16:27] <Laney> anyone got karmic running on a macbook?
[16:28] <fagan> intel macbooks should be fine
[16:29] <fagan> power pc is always a little dodgy
[16:29] <Laney> I tried jaunty but stumbled at setting up the mouse
[16:29] <fagan> All new macbooks come with intel processors so if its a recent one it should work great
[16:29] <Laney> yes
[16:29] <Laney> Can I expect multitouch to work?
[16:30] <fagan> Probably not for a while, not in karmic I think
[16:30] <Laney> :(
[16:31] <fagan> My suggestion is to get a 2 or 3 button mouse
[16:31] <Laney> kinda defeats the point of having a laptop
[16:32] <fagan> Oh yeah
[16:32] <fagan> You can use right click with ctrl+click if I remember correctly
[16:32]  * BluesKaj confesses he uses a separate mouse with the laptop :)
[16:33] <fagan> Or maybe alt+click
[16:33] <Laney> Left-click and basic trackpad work out of the box. But if you want the right-click (with two-finger-click or two-finger-tap), tap-click and two-finger horizontal scrolling you have to install the package bcm5974-dkms from the Mactel PPA repository, so run:
[16:33] <Laney> !!!
[16:34] <fagan> ah at least there is a ppa for it
[16:34] <not_shivan> HALP! http://pastebin.com/m17f55208
[16:35] <not_shivan> if anyone knows what happening here, it would help a lot
[16:36] <cwillu> not_shivan, could just be a broken update, try it again in a day
[16:36] <not_shivan> that's what I've be thinking for a week
[16:36] <cwillu> then file a bug :p
[16:36] <not_shivan> *been
[16:36] <not_shivan> done it
[16:36] <not_shivan> confirmed one actually
[16:36] <cwillu> might also try purging the package and reinstalling
[16:36] <not_shivan> done it :-)
[16:37] <cwillu> did /etc/texmf still exist after the purge?
[16:37] <not_shivan> hum, let me repurge and check
[16:39] <not_shivan> ah, forgot that one, lmodern on purge gives me a bunch of these lines W: /usr/share/texmf/fonts/type1/public/lm/lmvtlo10.pfb: not registered.
[16:47] <not_shivan> after a purge, I still have /etc/texmf
[16:48] <not_shivan> with a few things in it
[16:51] <BluesKaj> yeah , I purged pulseaudio but the client.conf file is still in /etc . I guess it's for future reference in case of reinstall ,when they iron out the probs it has with some pci soundcards
[17:02] <dto> hi. when i turn on the fglrx driver, opengl works, but is kind of slow/jerky. glxinfo says direct rendering is off. how can i fix that?
[17:03] <dto> direct rendering: No (LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT set)
[17:03] <dto>
[17:09] <phoenixz> Im running kubuntu+1, very very nice all indeed, only problem is that xorg is taking about 50%-70% of my CPU on a dualcore 1.83GHz Dell D620 laptop... This was not the case on 9.04 so I think its a bug?
[17:09] <dto> hi. sorry, crashed. i'm getting Direct Rendering: Yes now though.
[17:09] <fagan> do you have a GPU?
[17:09] <fagan> phoenixz: ^^
[17:10] <phoenixz> fagan: Intel I945, 8MB shared mem, yeah, crap, I know, but I didn't use to have this high CPU usage.
[17:10] <DanaG> AAAAAAAARGH, damned Firefox just lost all my preferences.... and now seems to have Alzheimer's, in that it won't remember any NEW preferences!
[17:10] <phoenixz> fagan: VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)
[17:11] <NoelJB> DanaG, what happens if you move ~/.mozilla out of the way, and let it create anew?
[17:11] <fagan> phoenixz: Hmmm sounds like a strange error, I dont know if its a bug. Could you look in the system monitor and check whats taking the cpu time
[17:12] <DanaG> hmm, with a new profile, it seems to remember.
[17:13] <DanaG> But it was working perfectly fine until this morning.
[17:13] <NoelJB> DanaG, I understand.  Just thought it worth a test.
[17:14] <DanaG> ls *corrupt* | wc -l
[17:14] <DanaG> 4058
[17:14] <DanaG> that's in my profile dir.
[17:14] <DanaG> four thousand places.sqlite-####.corrupt files!
[17:14] <DanaG> That's pretty pathetic.
[17:15] <mac_v> \o/ DanaG is here
[17:18] <DanaG> hmm, disabling all my extensions seems to have fixed it... now to re-enable one-by-one.
[17:25] <DanaG> aah, it seems Weave may be the culprit.
[17:26] <DanaG> nope, that's not it.
[17:28] <TedKozma> phoenixz, my problems with intel graphics card have been solved after downgrading the  driver to  xserver-xorg-video-intel-2.4
[17:28] <Polterge|st> has anyone coded in the multi wallpaper support for Karmic yet ?
[17:28] <phoenixz> fagan: well, top shows its xorg...
[17:29] <DanaG> Nope, even with ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL my extensions disabled, it's still broken!
[17:29] <DanaG> That's really, really stupid.
[17:29] <Polterge|st> at least I can have multiple wallpapers right now without nautilus crashing like crazh
[17:29] <Polterge|st> although I would like for nautilus to draw the desktop and still be able to use the wallpaper plugin from compiz
[17:30] <Polterge|st> that way I get desktop icons and menus with multiple wallpapers
[17:30] <phoenixz> fagan: TedKozma: AFAIK, Intel redid all their drivers since 9.04, which caused major headaches (crashes) on my laptop.. I upgraded my kernel to 2.6.30 and installed other xorg (from repo from launchpad), and it worked flawless.. Now with 9.10 I again have xorg problems, I guess this driver issue is still not fixed
[17:31] <TedKozma> phoenixz, agree, the issue with intel graphics started in 9.04 and is still there in the karmic alphas.
[17:33] <DanaG> MMm, even better... now it's ABORTing.
[17:47] <deany> policy kit authentication, any idea what that is for
[17:48] <deany> ah, I see.. I disabled it and I cant unlock anything like "services"
[17:49] <fagan> deany: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PolicyKit
[17:53] <bernie_> anyone know why my computer is so slow after upgrade to Karmic
[17:53] <TedKozma> bernie_, what's in your top?
[17:53] <TedKozma> how much cpu does your xorg pulls?
[17:59] <TedKozma> not only berie_'s computer is slow after upgrade, but the connection apparently drops.. :)
[18:01] <bernie_> my comp. is super slow since going to KARMIC
[18:01] <TedKozma> bernie_, what's in your top? what's pulling most cpu?
[18:02] <bernie_> how do i find this out Ted?
[18:02] <TedKozma> pop the terminal
[18:02] <TedKozma> and say "top"
[18:03] <bernie_> Xorg. %4.7 Mem
[18:04] <TedKozma> what kind of graphic card do you have?
[18:04] <bernie_> intel embedded chipset Brookdale something...
[18:06] <TedKozma> i also have intel graphics card, downgrading to xorg-video-intel-2.4 helped with choppiness
[18:06] <bernie_> i looked on the bugs launchpad thing and it said to set disable ipv6 in firefox to true; it was already set
[18:07] <bernie_> so i just need to install that
[18:09] <TedKozma> try that. Also, do /etc/init.d/gdm stop, then from the console  try Xorg -configure  - that will pick a better xorg.conf for your machine.
[18:09] <TedKozma> then test it. If it works - copy the /root/xorg.conf.new into your /etc/X11/
[18:09] <TedKozma> then start your gdm
[18:09] <TedKozma> /etc/init.d/gdm start
[18:09] <TedKozma> login into your gnome - check it out
[18:10] <bernie_> ok, thanks
[18:11] <TedKozma> run glxgears then from thee gnome-terminal - look at the FPS (frames per second) value. If it's low (like in 1 hunderds - your card is misconfigured still.
[18:11] <TedKozma> mine shows:
[18:11] <TedKozma> % glxgears
[18:11] <TedKozma> 883 frames in 5.0 seconds
[18:11] <TedKozma> 901 frames in 5.0 seconds
[18:12] <BluesKaj> TedKozma, the frame rate depends on the size of the frame he's using
[18:12] <TedKozma> i'm fine with that. Also, I'm not using any compiz and all that funky stuff
[18:13] <deany> Where is the volume mixer now?  all I see in volume
[18:13] <TedKozma> you're probably right, BluesKaj, i didn't dive too deep into that stuff.
[18:13] <deany> I wanna adjust more than just master
[18:15] <BluesKaj> TedKozma, your advice is good though ,as long as Xorg.conf will accept the settings
[18:15] <David-T> glxgears
[18:16] <David-T> er
[18:26] <deany> where is grubs menu.lst now?
[18:26] <SwedeMike>  /boot/grub/
[18:26] <reggieP123> why only one beta release for Karmic
[18:26] <deany> SwedeMike, what file
[18:27] <deany> SwedeMike, it doesnt have menu.lst
[18:27] <SwedeMike> ah, sorry, don't know.
[18:30] <BluesKaj> deany, did you install grub2 ?
[18:30] <deany> BluesKaj, whatever is in karmic
[18:31] <BluesKaj> deany, sudo update-grub
[18:32] <deany> BluesKaj, ?  I just wanna edit the file
[18:32] <deany> BluesKaj, just to take out the "splash"
[18:33] <BluesKaj> deany, look in /etc/default/grub
[18:33] <BluesKaj> but you should still update-grub after wards
[18:34] <BluesKaj> grub2 has no menu.lst btw
[18:36] <Admiral_Chicago> I ran into a strange problem with X. basically, it won't actually configure my xorg.conf
[18:36] <Admiral_Chicago> for example my monitor line reads "configured monitor"
[18:37] <TedKozma> Admiral_Chicago, did you do Xorg -configure ?
[18:37] <Admiral_Chicago> TedKozma: no. what would the full command be?
[18:38] <Admiral_Chicago> I tried sudo dpkg -reconfigure -phia (sp) xserver-xorf
[18:38] <TedKozma> that's it. You have to do it in console, when your X is off
[18:38] <TedKozma> as root Xorg -configure
[18:38] <TedKozma> or sudo Xorg -configure
[18:39] <TedKozma> otherwise ubuntu gives you a default vanilla xorg.conf
[18:39] <Admiral_Chicago> let me try that, be back
[18:41] <Admiral_Chicago> hmm, okay it told me there is a new configuration
[18:42] <TedKozma> you can test it (from console, without X) as X -config /root/xorg.conf.new (or wherever it was saved to)
[18:42] <TedKozma> or just backup your original xorg.conf and copy this one to your /etc/X11
[18:43] <Admiral_Chicago> TedKozma: I think that is what I'm going to try
[18:44] <Admiral_Chicago> (the second option)
[18:44] <BluesKaj> hmm, iget fatal server error with the Xorg -configure cmnd
[18:44] <TedKozma> you do that. Check that new xorg.conf, it probably is much longer than the original one
[18:44] <blue0488> does this version fix the overlay option?
[18:44] <TedKozma> BluesKaj,  I think you should do it with your X off
[18:44] <BluesKaj> suppose i should be at the prompt
[18:47] <Virk> hi everyone
[18:47] <BluesKaj> nope same thing at the tty
[18:47] <blue0488> I am using 2 screens and one of them is a tv and it has overlay and I have now option to fix the overlay for it in 9.04 in ver 9.10 does it fix that problem or does any one know?
[18:47] <TedKozma> BluesKaj, that's new, never seen that before
[18:48] <Virk> I recently updatet my acer aspire 5672 to kubuntu karmic, and it works like a charm
[18:48] <Virk> however, upgrading my acer aspire 1360 to kubuntu karmic didn't work that well
[18:49] <Virk> every time KDE starts, I get the splashscreen, an just before the blue KDE logo would show up, the thing crashes and I get kdm again...
[18:49] <Virk> has anyone experienced the same before?
[18:50] <Virk> the KDM log does not show anithing unusual like fatal errors or so, nor does the xorg log..
[18:50] <BluesKaj> TedKozma, I'm using a nvidia 7600GT card
[18:51] <TedKozma> Virk, I didn't, as I don't use kde. You can try to create a new user and login there. If that works then some kde settings saved in your home directory cause it to crash. ALternatively you can take a look at .xsession-errors
[18:52] <Virk> thanks TedKozma, I'll try it at once
[18:53] <Admiral_Chicago> hmm, same behavior as before, TedKozma
[18:55] <tgpraveen>  when will empathy get messaging indicator support?
[18:55] <Admiral_Chicago> let's see what the logs say...
[18:55] <TedKozma> Admiral_Chicago,  describe the behaviour
[18:57] <Admiral_Chicago> TedKozma: when I log in, it will drop X completely and stall and show setting advanced power manager
[18:57] <Admiral_Chicago> it will just hang there...want me to upload a picture?
[18:57] <Admiral_Chicago> the logs show a Signal 11, meaning a memory allocation error right?
[18:58] <Virk> hmm, TedKozma, looking at .xsession-errors tells me that the user doesn't have permission to create a new folder in /var/tmp/kdecache-user. Whiwh is kinda weird, as kdebuildsycoca4 -noincremental did not show this problem, and permissions of that folder  are already recursively set to 661
[19:03] <bjsnider> can someobdy confirm that palimpsest has the self-test and status info when used on a s.m.a.r.t. disk?
[19:04] <TedKozma> Admiral_Chicago, ok, let's take a look at the picture
[19:04] <Admiral_Chicago> http://pastebin.ca/f58520acc is the /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[19:09] <Admiral_Chicago> TedKozma: the picture should be viewable at http://mypict.me/yX3Y
[19:19] <Admiral_Chicago> TedKozma: can you look at my /etc/X11/xorg.conf? I think the Server Layout is not formatted correctly. (the Server section I believe) http://pastebin.com/f58ff523e
[19:19] <Admiral_Chicago> also, i linked you to the /var/log/ output but I think the url should be pastebin.com not pastebin.ca
[19:22] <BluesKaj> pastebin.ca works too, Admiral_Chicago
[19:23] <Admiral_Chicago> ah
[19:23] <BluesKaj> or exists rather
[19:23] <BluesKaj> and .ca is not california like some ppl think :)
[19:25] <bjsnider> yes, it's cameroon
[19:25] <Admiral_Chicago> yes iirc .ca was the url the pastebinit package used when it was first released (which is what I used)
[19:39] <paddy2k> hi is anyone else having trouble with installing Ubuntu on a netbook?
[19:40] <halfpastzero> what trouble?
[19:40] <IndyGunFreak> paddy2k, whats the prob?...
[19:41] <alex-weej> there are about 5 showstopper regressions for me in karmic a5 that have been there since about a2. when do i start to worry?
[19:41] <Admiral_Chicago> at the RCs?
[19:43] <paddy2k> when trying to boot it fails 75% tru usplash, something about Squashfs error. Booting with acpi=off enabled let it boot then I installed it and it's still failing
[19:43] <paddy2k> i would submit a bug but I don't know how to dump the error logs
[19:43] <virtuald> will aptitude markauto ?installed kill my kitten?
[19:44] <IndyGunFreak> alex-weej, i've ran it on my AA1, my Main Laptop, and my PC(on my PC now)... biggest problem I see, is the Intel regression on my AA1 and my Laptop, but I don't use Desktop Effects anyways
[19:48] <Wistful> Empathy doesn't have Gtalk support in the latest Karmic Alpha, anyone noticed this ?
[19:53] <DKcross> Why ubuntu karmic dont  have Pidgin, i think that pidgin is better that Empathy
[19:53] <paddy2k> would someone be able to tell me how to output the text from booting to a text file so i can submit a bug
[19:53] <paddy2k> please
[19:55] <Wistful> DKcross: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/11705/
[19:56] <TedKozma> Admiral_Chicago, I don't see a problem in your xorg.conf's server layout, sorry.
[19:57] <Admiral_Chicago> so what could the problem be? did you take a look at the var/log/X11 file?
[19:57] <TedKozma> Admiral_Chicago, since i don't have nvidia, i could suggest to 1) disable the gdm 2) put something like "dbus-launch gnome-session" into ~/.xinitrc, startx from console, watch the errors
[19:58] <Wistful> paddy2k: Go to System->Preferences->Log File Viewer, and select the appropriate .log file you require or goto /var/log and use a text editor to view the contents of the files there.
[19:58] <Admiral_Chicago> TedKozma: how could I disable gdm?
[19:58] <paddy2k> Wistful: thanks I'll try that, can't get to the GUI but I'll try /var/log
[19:59] <TedKozma> Admiral_Chicago, you can: sudo /etc/init.d/gdm stop  from any terminal.
[19:59] <Admiral_Chicago> hmm true. I'll be back in a second.
[19:59] <TedKozma> that will put you into console mode. login as yourself. vi .xinitrc in your home dir. Put dbus-launch gnome-session in there. Save it.
[20:00] <bjsnider> Admiral_Chicago, what is your problem?
[20:00] <Admiral_Chicago> bjsnider: X won't start for me.
[20:00] <bjsnider> Admiral_Chicago, which graphics card?
[20:01] <Admiral_Chicago> intel
[20:01] <Admiral_Chicago> bjsnider: do you want the exact card model?
[20:01] <bjsnider> try it without a xorg.conf
[20:01] <Admiral_Chicago> ?
[20:02] <Admiral_Chicago> how can I do that?
[20:02] <bjsnider> mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.bak
[20:02] <TedKozma> +1
[20:02] <bjsnider> xorg.conf is no longer necessary to simply load a supported xorg driver
[20:03] <Admiral_Chicago> then just reboot?
[20:03] <bjsnider> yeah
[20:03] <TedKozma> well, he doesn't need to reboot, just restart the X
[20:03] <bjsnider> meh
[20:03] <Admiral_Chicago> i'm going to try a reboot.
[20:04] <bjsnider> karmic boots fast either way
[20:04] <Dr_Willis> Yes - it does boot amazingly fast
[20:05] <bjsnider> his xorg.conf had a lot of old crap in it
[20:06] <Dr_Willis> Mine was blank. :)  nvidia-settings wouldent even work  with it.. I had to copy over my old xorg.conf from 9.04
[20:06] <halfpastzero> so far the only parts about karmic i don't like are the login screen, the lack of awesomeness in empathy, and the snap crackle pop my sound makes but that's probably a driver problem.
[20:06] <Loafers> Will Karmic Koala support ATI Radeon 9500-9800, X300-X2100?  Because in Juanty it is currently unsupported.
[20:06] <Dr_Willis> Yep.. crackle sound here also
[20:07] <Dr_Willis> almost like the sound card is shutting down, reinitilizing
[20:07] <halfpastzero> sounds familiar
[20:07] <bjsnider> Loafers, not by fglrx
[20:07] <bjsnider> possibly the radeon driver does
[20:07] <TedKozma> Admiral_Chicago,  how's it going?
[20:07] <Loafers> bjsnider, why not? they all worked in hardy
[20:08] <Admiral_Chicago> bjsnider TedKozma  Nada. Still not working
[20:08] <Loafers> halfpastzero, http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Arc-Colors+GDM-Walls?content=88305
[20:08] <Dr_Willis> Loafers:  because ati decided to REMOVE some cards support from the fglrx drivers
[20:08] <bjsnider> because ati dropped support for old junk in fglrx
[20:08] <Admiral_Chicago> I got the exact same behavior even though xorg.conf doesn't exist
[20:08] <Dr_Willis> thus they will never (i imagine) get back in fglrx
[20:08] <Loafers> Why don't they open source it so people can fix it?
[20:09] <bjsnider> the open source support is coming along
[20:09] <Dr_Willis> Loafers:  beacuse they dont have to.   They promise they will support Open source better.. but  well.. its slow work from what i gather.
[20:09] <arand> What does ubiquity do with an existing home and the username you choose, does it automatically associate the username with the existing /home, without overwriting anything, if it already exists?
[20:09] <Loafers> Ok thanks
[20:09] <Dr_Willis> Loafers:  so try a live cd and see if they work - i guess. :)
[20:10] <halfpastzero> Loafers: thanks, those look much prettier.
[20:10] <TedKozma> http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/904#Performance%20regressions%20on%20Intel%20graphics%20cards
[20:10]  * Dr_Willis hopes that 9.10 has some BIG work done on the intel stuff...
[20:10] <Admiral_Chicago> TedKozma: I can't see the link...
[20:11] <Dr_Willis> ive not even figured out where to change the GDM theme in 9.10 yet.
[20:11] <bjsnider> Admiral_Chicago, how does it work if you boot off a livecd?
[20:11] <Admiral_Chicago> a karmic live cd?
[20:11] <bjsnider> Admiral_Chicago, did you upgrade from something else?
[20:12] <Admiral_Chicago> I upgraded my sources from jaunty
[20:12] <bjsnider> that doesn't sound good to me
[20:12] <bjsnider> you upgraded your _sources_
[20:17] <TedKozma> i upgraded my sources from jaunty as well.
[20:18] <TedKozma> and I have intel video on both home and work machines
[20:19] <TedKozma> i had issues with both - i dowgraded my driver xorg-video-intel-2.4
[20:19] <Admiral_Chicago> how can I do that TedKozma? do you think that'll help? wait that was in the link you sent me right?
[20:20] <TedKozma> Admiral_Chicago, that may be in that link, but it may be hard to find the right stuff using the bberry browser :)
[20:21] <TedKozma> can you try  sudo apt-get install xorg-video-intel-2.4  ?
[20:22] <halfpastzero> which intel gpus are people having trouble with? my intel 4500mhd seems to work great.
[20:23] <Admiral_Chicago> hmm, it doesn't like that is the name of the package
[20:25] <Admiral_Chicago> halfpastzero: I'm got an GM965
[20:27] <TedKozma> Admiral_Chicago, sent you my sources list
[20:28] <Admiral_Chicago> give me a second...
[20:29] <Admiral_Chicago> http://pastebin.com/f3fb62315
[20:31] <TedKozma> Admiral_Chicago,  you want me to update the list in pastebin?
[20:31] <TedKozma> i sent you an url with a tarball of my sources.
[20:32] <TedKozma> http://pastebin.com/m1b729f9a done
[20:37] <Twigathy> how can I add xsplash to an existing 9.10 install? atm I just get dmesg spam followed by GDM, no boot screens at all... =)
[20:37] <qzio> anyone having trouble with ISO_Level3_Shift in 9.10? works in gnome-terminal/gvim but not in firefox :(
[21:07] <Dr_Willis> Twigathy:  xsplas was installed by default here.. just install the package..
[21:10] <Dr_Willis> err.. xsplash i thouhg showed up after gdm started when the user desktop is loading .. or was it befor and after..   i forget.. i disabled the useless thing
[21:15] <Admiral_Chicago> TedKozma: WORKS
[21:15] <Admiral_Chicago> TedKozma: thanks a lot
[21:15] <TedKozma> halelluya
[21:15] <TedKozma> :D
[21:15] <TedKozma> ok, so you started it via the gdm, right?
[21:15] <TedKozma> how's the responsiveness?
[21:16] <Admiral_Chicago> I used KDM but yea
[21:16] <Admiral_Chicago> the driver seems to handle everything correctly
[21:16] <Admiral_Chicago> might need to mess with Compiz on GNOME, I'm on my KDE session
[21:18] <TedKozma> now you could probably try to fine-tune it tweaking things in xorg.conf
[22:08] <tj83> anyone else notice that in ccsm 3d windows plugin does not function? cube deformation works for me.
[22:10] <Nattgew> working for me...
[22:10] <tj83> Oh? Nattgew hmm... odd. let me attempt to disable and re-enable it.
[22:13] <tj83> Nattgew, i disable it and re-enabled it... still the same. no 3d windows, Also, i am unable to use compiz --replace as my Alt+f2 is broken
[22:13] <tj83> I'll look for bug reports
[22:34] <oOarthurOo> test
[22:35] <j0nr> hi all, just got alpha karmic running, but i cant get a network connection, even with an ethernet cable. Any ideas?
[22:36] <oOarthurOo> Greets. I removed pulse as per usual and hoped to switch over to alsa via sound preferences. But I'm unable to open sound preferences. I've also noticed the volume hot keys have stopped worked, giving osd updates etc
[22:36] <oOarthurOo> Sound still works however.
[22:36] <ikonia> j0nr: dhcp not running ?
[22:37] <j0nr> ikonia: not sure, how can i check?
[22:37] <gobnuts> Hi. Is there a way to make plasma-desktop the default shell instead of plasma-netbook on Kubuntu-netbook-remic karmic alpha5?
[22:37] <oOarthurOo> Trying to run it from terminal in debug mode surprisingly provides no useful info. Just 'can't connect to the sound server.' But no error codes. :(
[22:38] <ikonia> j0nr: use ps to grep for dhclient
[22:38] <ikonia> j0nr: also check if your network card is actually seen by the OS
[22:38] <sageNsand> lspci
[22:39] <j0nr> ikonia: and if dhclient is not running? can i start it?
[22:39] <ikonia> j0nr: sure
[22:40] <oOarthurOo> Second issue... anyone noticed firefox sort of jumping around? Like jittery, up and down. Very slight, but noticeable?
[22:40] <ikonia> j0nr: with respect though, why are you running the alpha software if you don't know how to use/debug it ?
[22:40] <j0nr> ikonia: just wanted to try it out
[22:40] <ikonia> j0nr: may not be the best move as people won't generally support you with the basics, it's assumed you can get through the basics
[22:41] <j0nr> ok, thanks anyway
[22:42] <ikonia> not a problem, use it if you want, just a heads up really
[22:43] <ikonia> you won't get the support you would normally get in #ubuntu
[22:47] <oOarthurOo> ugh... I can't type "/join #ubuntu" in empathy. I'm not really liking this app so much.
[22:48] <j0nr> well i dont think it is detecting my network card
[22:49] <j0nr>  can only find the Broadcom wireless in lspci, ethernet port doesnt light up when i plug into it
[22:49] <j0nr> ifconfig only has 'lo' in it
[22:49] <oOarthurOo> Fixed my shaky window problem in Firefox. Apparently you shouldn't try to hide your bookmarks toolbar and keep bookmarks visible
[22:49] <ikonia> j0nr: what card is it ?
[22:50] <alankila> j0nr: hm. Awesome, the PC reports no ethernet devices even at lspci level? That could indicate that the hardware has become disabled somehow. Might be good idea to take a look in BIOS.
[22:51] <j0nr> i think i will leave it alone, out of my depth really :)
[22:52] <alankila> try lshw for the most comprehensive list of detected hardware you'll probably come across. Anything like "ethernet" in it that isn't wlan?
[22:53] <j0nr> i have to keep rebooting as its on another partition on the same computer... thanks anyway... will come back to it another day
[22:53] <j0nr> laters
[22:57] <kavurt> can we make audio call in amsn?
[22:59] <ikonia> kavurt: no
[23:00] <kavurt> how can I install farsight2?
[23:10] <cbmuser> hi, I have several issues with karmic at the moment: one annoying is that pulseaudio 0.9.16 beta doesn't work well with Skype 2.1.
[23:10] <cbmuser> I think, karmic should use a stable upstream version of pulseaudio instead
[23:11] <cbmuser> also, the new version of aqbanking doesn't work for me at all atm
[23:12] <cbmuser> and, last but not least, I cannot properly shutdown my Thinkpad T43 in 5 out of 10 cases
[23:12] <cbmuser> anyone has similar problems?
[23:13] <bjsnider> pulseaudio 9.16 will be a stable upstream release by the time karmic is finished
[23:13] <cbmuser> I hope so
[23:14] <funkyHat> What is the deal with the ugly X splash screen thingy in Karmic?
[23:14] <cbmuser> it would be annoying if Skype doesn't work with karmic's pulseaudio now that the Skype guys have developed pulseaudio support
[23:14] <funkyHat> The brown thing, with the white thing, that moves upwards, but gets chopped so it looks weird
[23:14] <cbmuser> yeah, I found that weird, too
[23:14] <cbmuser> I'd rather see plymouth + kms
[23:15] <cbmuser> plymouth is in Debian now
[23:15] <funkyHat> My issue isn't with the method, I understand that, I just don't like the themeing
[23:16] <bjsnider> none of the artwork is finished
[23:16] <funkyHat> The reasoning for not using plymouth is that X (the real X) is going to be one of the very first services that gets started, so starting another X, just to switch from that X to the other X would be silly
[23:16] <cbmuser> funkyHat: kms is not X
[23:17] <funkyHat> cbmuser: plymouth is X
[23:17] <cbmuser> no
[23:17] <cbmuser> it's just a replacement for usplash
[23:18] <cbmuser> the point is that kms already sets the proper graphics mode directly after grub
[23:19] <bjsnider> there are no nvidia ksm drivers
[23:19] <bjsnider> or ati, as far as i know
[23:19] <bjsnider> so it's out
[23:19] <cbmuser> aeh, there are
[23:20] <cbmuser> I already used kms on my ATI card until it got dropped
[23:20] <bjsnider> so?
[23:20] <bjsnider> it will be available if you want it
[23:20] <cbmuser> will it be packaged?
[23:21] <bjsnider> sure it will
[23:21] <cbmuser> installing it manually is quite tedious
[23:21] <bjsnider> this is linux
[23:21] <bjsnider> youc an do what you want
[23:21] <cbmuser> I know
[23:21] <bjsnider> this isn't macos
[23:21] <cbmuser> but I use Ubuntu because I don't want to alot myself
[23:22] <bjsnider> i think macos is for you
[23:22] <cbmuser> never :)
[23:22] <cbmuser> I have been using Linux since 1998, I will not switch :)
[23:23] <sageNsand> the apple commercial http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYecfV3ubP8
[23:24] <cbmuser> bjsnider: the fedora guys have full kms-support (no, I won't switch to Fedora :))
[23:30] <bjsnider> cbmuser, you mean you don't like policykit to be added to everything so you have no control over your own system? what's wrong with you?
[23:30] <bjsnider> and you don't like the terrible package management?
[23:31] <cbmuser> haeh?
[23:32] <cbmuser> what is policykit?
[23:32] <bjsnider> that's what gives you all of those "unlock" buttons everywhere
[23:32] <cbmuser> ah, I wasn't talking about that
[23:33] <cbmuser> I meant, I use Ubuntu instead of Debian because 99% works out of the box
[23:33] <bjsnider> you said fedora
[23:33] <bjsnider> you said you wouldn't be installing the excellent fedora operating system
[23:33] <cbmuser> yeah
[23:34] <cbmuser> I am much more into Debian/Ubuntu
[23:34] <bjsnider> well, the kms driver is int he kernel
[23:34] <cbmuser> yes, that's indeed true
[23:35] <bjsnider> i'm sure the ubuntu kernel isn't going to disable it
[23:35] <cbmuser> however, only intel is in
[23:35] <cbmuser> radeon is in the crap section
[23:35] <bjsnider> i agre. radeon is crap
[23:36] <cbmuser> haha, no, I meant it's in the experimental section
[23:36] <BluesKaj> radeon support is crap
[23:36] <cbmuser> TAINT_CRAP I think it's called
[23:36] <BluesKaj> nothing wrong with the media cards
[23:37] <cbmuser> what media cards?
[23:37] <bjsnider> they're not much help without a good driver though
[23:37] <BluesKaj> sound and graphics
[23:37] <cbmuser> the problem are the hardware vendors
[23:38] <cbmuser> the release so much new stuff, so that they can't even keep track on Windows
[23:38] <BluesKaj> exactly , ati stuff was fine until the driver support dropped off
[23:38] <cbmuser> even on Windows many drivers are buggy
[23:38] <cbmuser> BluesKaj: you mean fglrx?
[23:38] <cbmuser> I never used that
[23:38] <cbmuser> radoen works fine for me
[23:39] <BluesKaj> cbmuser, amongst others yeah
[23:39] <cbmuser> best is still intel, however
[23:40] <cbmuser> my next laptop will have intel gfx again
[23:40] <BluesKaj> not on karmic ..according to the probs ppl with intel are having
[23:40] <bjsnider> cbmuser, make it nvidia
[23:41] <cbmuser> I know, nvidia's closed source driver is quite good
[23:42] <arand> Intel and problems were true on jaunty, but is that continued in KK?
[23:42] <cbmuser> almost all my colleagues at the uni use nvidia
[23:42] <bjsnider> that's putting it mildly
[23:42] <cbmuser> arand: I don't think it will be buggy
[23:42] <BluesKaj> arand, yes somewhat
[23:42] <bjsnider> supposedly some of hte intel problems have gotten better
[23:42] <cbmuser> the point was that they chaning alot of code at the time of the jaunty release
[23:43] <BluesKaj> some itel users have found fallback drivers that work on karmic
[23:43] <BluesKaj> intel
[23:43] <cbmuser> the driver wasn't ready at that time
[23:43] <cbmuser> and ubuntu should have sticked with driver 2.3.x at that time like Debian
[23:43] <cbmuser> I think, the current 2.8.1 works quite nicely however
[23:44] <bjsnider> jaunty was not an lts release
[23:45] <cbmuser> ja, anyway
[23:45] <cbmuser> they have updated the drivers, haven't they?
[23:45] <bjsnider> yep
[23:46] <cbmuser> things like these happen on Ubuntu
[23:46] <cbmuser> the price for being more bleeding edge
[23:46] <cbmuser> as opposed to Debian