[00:00] <BUGabundo> smplayer was broken for me in lucid
[00:00] <billybigrigger_> won't need anything else
[00:00] <billybigrigger_> smplayer works great here
[00:00] <bjsnider> billybigrigger, no, gmplayer is an old gui that is no longer maintained
[00:00] <billybigrigger_> bjsnider, i was going to say, gmplayer sucked
[00:00] <billybigrigger_> will have to try gnome-mplayer
[00:00] <yoasif> gnome-mplayer is pretty horrible heh
[00:00] <BUGabundo> billybigrigger don't
[00:01] <yoasif> billybigrigger_: maybe you can figure out how to make good bug reports for that app heh
[00:01] <BUGabundo> totem, vlc, mplauer and smppayer are enoufh
[00:01] <yoasif> totem has slooooooow startup
[00:01] <BUGabundo> no
[00:01] <BUGabundo> very fast here
[00:01] <BUGabundo> faster then vlc
[00:01] <BUGabundo> mplayer beats all, of course
[00:01] <yoasif> i just use mplayer-nogui
[00:01] <Sarvatt> yoasif: try something like mplayer -ao pulse -vo vdpau -vc ffh264vdpau file manually?
[00:02] <Sarvatt> you can use mplayer -identify -vo vdpau -frames 0 file to dump the info btw
[00:02] <yoasif> Sarvatt: just tried that, now i get no video, but i hear the audio
[00:03] <Sarvatt> does it have subtitles?
[00:03] <Sarvatt> it might be non-comformant and vdpau might not accelerate it
[00:03] <yoasif> no subs
[00:04] <bjsnider> yoasif, does it work if you use xv and the normal ffmpeg codecs?
[00:05] <yoasif> bjsnider: when i try ffmpeg i get Forced video codec: ffmpeg
[00:05] <yoasif> Cannot find codec matching selected -vo and video format 0x31637661.
[00:06] <bjsnider> the codec should be ffh264 i think
[00:06] <yoasif> bjsnider: yes, it works with ffh264
[00:07] <bjsnider> without any of those error messages?
[00:07] <Sarvatt> i had to reencode alot of my old hd rips to get them to work with gpu acceleration, it's made for standardized profiles that come on hd-dvd and blurays and stuff so its easy to encode your own stuff out of spec
[00:08] <yoasif> bjsnider: yes, without the error messages
[00:08] <yoasif> Sarvatt: ahh :/
[00:08] <yoasif> Sarvatt: so i may just be SOL?
[00:08] <bjsnider> yoasif, are you using the latest vdpau? where did you get it?
[00:08] <yoasif> bjsnider: i used the vdpau ppa
[00:09] <yoasif> still using 185 though
[00:09] <bjsnider> ah, well that could be the issue
[00:10] <yoasif> i can downgrade to the lucid versions, but those have the same issue
[00:10] <billybigrigger> yoasif, did you get a sample hosted somewhere for one of us to test?
[00:11] <yoasif> billybigrigger: still opening it in avidemux heh
[00:11] <bjsnider> you can upgrade to the 190 or 195 driver which has numerous vdpau fixes since the 185
[00:12] <yoasif> bjsnider: i had major issues even trying to install those via ppa... ie it didn't work at all :/
[00:12] <bjsnider> when was this?
[00:12] <yoasif> and i don't want to install using the nvidia installer
[00:12] <yoasif> like 4 days ago?
[00:12] <yoasif> i can try again if you recommend it
[00:12] <billybigrigger> yoasif, install nvidia-195-glx
[00:12] <bjsnider> what day is this anyway?
[00:12] <billybigrigger> sunday
[00:13] <bjsnider> what year is this?
[00:13] <billybigrigger> bjsnider, thanks for the nvidia help earlier btw
[00:13] <billybigrigger> 2009
[00:13] <bjsnider> what planet am i on?
[00:13] <billybigrigger> mars
[00:13] <bjsnider> thought so
[00:13] <bjsnider> wait, the 185 works in lucid?
[00:15] <yoasif> bjsnider: yeah
[00:15] <bjsnider> over time, vdpau has gotten more and more tolerant of badly encoded crap
[00:16] <yoasif> bjsnider: it's actually the only driver that worked for me, but i will try 195 in a few
[00:16] <bjsnider> just upload a clip so i can test it
[00:16] <bjsnider> because i'll tell you what, you could submit it to stephen warren for testing too
[00:17] <yoasif> yea i will upload a clip as soon as i can get a few second sample
[00:17] <yoasif> avidemux is still indexing the file heh
[00:17] <billybigrigger> will vlc play it? i think you can save samples through vlc
[00:18] <yoasif> billybigrigger: yeah it does play it
[00:18] <yoasif> how can i do that?
[00:19] <billybigrigger> i think im full of it
[00:20] <yoasif> np
[00:25] <bjsnider> you can do it in mkvmerge
[00:26] <bjsnider> start a new encode, but stop it after 10 seconds or so
[00:26] <bjsnider> keep everything default but change the name so it doesn't overwrite the original
[00:27] <billybigrigger> ffmpeg should be able to aswell
[00:34] <Sarvatt> yoasif: where did you get the mplayer from? was it compiled against the vdpau in nvidia's 185 driver or libvdpau?
[00:37] <yoasif> Sarvatt: lemme check
[00:37] <yoasif> Sarvatt: lucid multiverse
[00:37] <Sarvatt> NVIDIA: could not open the device file /dev/nvidiactl (Permission denied).
[00:37] <yoasif> Installed: 2:1.0~rc3+svn20090426-1ubuntu12
[00:37] <bjsnider> what?
[00:38] <bjsnider> aren't you using the nvidia-vdpau ppa?
[00:38] <yoasif> bjsnider: i was, and then after i got the nvidia driver working, i downgraded everything because i never actually got it working when using the ppa
[00:38] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, add yourself to the video group
[00:38] <Sarvatt> there ya go yeah
[00:39] <Sarvatt> thats in his log
[00:39] <bjsnider> yoasif, you downgraded everything except the driver?
[00:40] <yoasif> bjsnider: lemme check that too...yeah
[00:40] <yoasif> 185.18.36-0ubuntu10~lucid~nvidiavdpauppa1
[00:41] <bjsnider> you need libvdpau and the mplayer from the ppa
[00:41] <bjsnider> libvdpau should already be there
[00:41] <yoasif> alright -- well it never worked with just plain lucid either
[00:41] <yoasif> but i should go ahead and switch to the vdpau ppa?
[00:41] <Sarvatt> yeah mplayer in ubuntu doesnt have vdpau support :D
[00:41] <bjsnider> yes it does
[00:42] <yoasif> yeah it does
[00:42] <yoasif> it has since karmic
[00:42] <bjsnider> it's just old
[00:42] <yoasif> heh
[00:42] <bjsnider> really, really old
[00:43] <bjsnider> yoasif, you can downgrade if anything bad happens
[00:49] <Sarvatt> oh vdpau support was added in october, no wonder i missed it
[00:50] <bjsnider> it's much older than that
[00:50] <bjsnider> the mplayer pull happened in april
[00:50] <yoasif> bjsnider: yea ill give it a shot in a few
[00:50] <bjsnider> probably using even older vdpau code
[00:51] <bjsnider> yoasif, i was changing the ppa over to new stuff last week, so maybe you got caught during one of the broken packages. but they all work now, as far as i know
[00:51] <Sarvatt> yeah but it wasnt using  vdpau when I looked last, was just enabled on september 24th   * Enable VDPAU support by including vdpau headers in deb packaging.
[00:51] <bjsnider> which isn't necessary anymore since the library is built separately from the blob now
[00:55] <Sarvatt> hmm http://osdir.com/ml/debian-bugs-dist/2009-11/msg08681.html
[00:56] <Sarvatt> looks like its not falling back to another vo if theres a problem with the way its done now, and just doesnt display the video
[00:57] <htrejh> hi
[00:57] <htrejh> how can i update to +1 in kubuntu?
[00:58] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, in mplayer
[00:59] <htrejh> as update-manager -d doesn't work
[01:01] <penguin42> htrejh: I did a do-release-upgrade -d
[01:01] <htrejh> k thanks it was that, couldn't remember
[01:02] <htrejh> thx bye
[01:04] <Sarvatt> bjsnider: did you binary copy the mplayer in nvidia-vdpau to lucid or something? its compiled with gcc 4.4.1
[01:05] <bjsnider> let me check
[01:05] <bjsnider> i'm trying to remember
[01:05] <bjsnider> yes i did
[01:06] <Sarvatt> yoasif: its playing fine here
[01:07] <Sarvatt> i'm using 195.30 straight from nvidia though
[01:07] <bjsnider> basically at that point in time the queue times int he build system were so long that it seemed practical
[01:07] <Sarvatt> no i'm not actually -- nvidia-195-kernel-source                        195.30-0ubuntu1~lucid~nvidiavdpauppa1
[01:08] <bjsnider> where is the clip?
[01:09] <Sarvatt> yoasif: http://pastebin.com/dc86508b
[01:09] <Sarvatt> it's an 8gb "clip" :D
[01:11] <Sarvatt> did you binary copy nvidia-settings too or something?
[01:11] <bjsnider> he just needs to update to the packages in the ppa and he'll be fine
[01:11] <Sarvatt> because that doesnt compile against libxxf86vm-dev anymore
[01:11]  * bjsnider runs and hides
[01:12] <bjsnider> i promise the drivers are not binary copied
[01:12] <Sarvatt> they wouldnt work if they were :D
[01:13] <bjsnider> no, because they would end up providing the wrong xorg-video package
[01:14] <bjsnider> which i think is the problem with the one in the current lucid repo
[01:15] <Sarvatt> dynamic gamma adjusting probably wont work with the binary copied nvidia-settings from karmic though
[01:16]  * penguin42 wonders what level of open source radeon drivers will ship in Lucid; I'm pretty impressed with the current bleeding edge set
[01:16] <Sarvatt> i wish it was just that, recompiling 185 doesnt work here
[01:17] <Sarvatt> penguin42: the ones in lucid now will probably be there for a good chunk of time still, thats the last git checkout that works without updating other major plumbing
[01:18] <penguin42> Sarvatt: Does it get GL working on most stuff?
[01:18] <bjsnider> i get the impression major plumbing will be required for gnome-shell to be updated too, since i can't get it to build here
[01:18] <Sarvatt> next commit made it require libdrm 2.4.16 and current git needs 2.4.17, not to mention mesa needs 2.4.17 to get updated as well
[01:18] <penguin42> Sarvatt: It might be worth it you know - it's working like a dream
[01:18] <Sarvatt> gnome-shell builds fine here in jhbuild against lucid? i built it yesterday
[01:19] <bjsnider> i'm talking about a deb though
[01:19] <cjohnston> I hope someone knows this... Do md5 hashes normally get posted on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuHashes for alpha/beta releases?
[01:20] <Sarvatt> penguin42: updating libdrm horribly breaks intel for alot of people
[01:20] <penguin42> Sarvatt: Ah that wouldn't be good
[01:20]  * Sarvatt raises his hand :D
[01:20] <Sarvatt> thats whats holding it back
[01:20] <penguin42> Sarvatt: So I've now got one Intel machine and one Radeon!
[01:25] <penguin42> curious, synergy from my intrepid box to my karmic box if I type an @ sign I get an Ω
[01:27] <Sarvatt> what keyboard layout are you using?
[01:28] <penguin42> UK on both (102 maybe on one, 105 on the other - but that's just the windows keys difference)
[01:28] <penguin42> the key in question is the same one on both - shift ' - i.e. where " is on US keyboards
[01:30] <yoasif> any ideas on this error?
[01:30] <Sarvatt> looks like synergy is pretty broken for everything but US layouts from a quick glance
[01:30] <yoasif> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/nvidia-glx-195_195.30-0ubuntu1~lucid~nvidiavdpauppa1_amd64.deb (--unpack):
[01:30] <yoasif>  subprocess new pre-installation script returned error exit status 2
[01:30] <yoasif> Errors were encountered while processing:
[01:30] <yoasif>  /var/cache/apt/archives/nvidia-glx-195_195.30-0ubuntu1~lucid~nvidiavdpauppa1_amd64.deb
[01:30] <yoasif> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[01:30] <yoasif> A package failed to install.  Trying to recover:
[01:30] <yoasif> Setting up nvidia-195-kernel-source (195.30-0ubuntu1~lucid~nvidiavdpauppa1) ...
[01:31] <bjsnider> pastebin the full error msg
[01:31] <Sarvatt> purge your nvidia stuff besides nvidia-common before ya switch yoasif, one of the downsides of using ppa's for it
[01:32] <yoasif> is there a log?
[01:32] <yoasif> ok
[01:32] <Sarvatt> its has horribly complex packaging and people do it different on ppa's
[01:32] <yoasif> purging now
[01:33] <bjsnider> "horribly complex" is putting id mildly
[01:33] <Sarvatt> i just purge nvidia* then reinstall nvidia-common
[01:33] <bjsnider> alberto's trying to clean it up
[01:33] <Sarvatt> yeah I spent a good 2 days trying to fix it up before i gave up, its just too limited how its set up now
[01:34] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, is tehre a replacement package in lucid for the one you mentioned re: nvidia-settings?
[01:34] <Sarvatt> yepyep nvidia-graphics-drivers instead of having to changing hundreds of things to switch from a major version bump nvidia does every few months will be NICE
[01:35] <bjsnider> well, using one or two files with version numbers and then variables for the rest would be helpful
[01:36] <yoasif> http://pastebin.com/m4dab7aad
[01:36] <Sarvatt> x headers got split up alot between protos and lib-dev's now so one can have client side and the other have server side things, ya want to add x11proto-xf86vidmode-dev as well to the deps but you need to change one of the source files to point at the new header name too, one sec
[01:37] <bjsnider> it's a deiversion clash. those diversions are supposed to be REMOVED when you uninstall the previous version
[01:37] <Sarvatt> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=289744
[01:37] <yoasif> got rid of the diversion clash i think
[01:37] <Sarvatt> patch is attached there
[01:38] <bjsnider> gentoo?
[01:38] <bjsnider> oh, no. i can't add a gentoo patch
[01:38] <bjsnider> that's out of the question
[01:38] <yoasif> http://pastebin.com/m41f6fd5b
[01:38] <Sarvatt> http://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=208926
[01:38] <Sarvatt> the blob already has a few gentoo patches in it! :D
[01:38] <yoasif> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/nvidia-glx-195_195.30-0ubuntu1~lucid~nvidiavdpauppa1_amd64.deb (--unpack):
[01:38] <yoasif> what is the issue there?
[01:39] <bjsnider> the diversion
[01:39] <yoasif> what should i do?
[01:39] <bjsnider> diversions are ont heir way out. it's going to be alternatives instead
[01:39] <bjsnider> purge all nvidia drivers
[01:39] <yoasif> did that heh
[01:39] <yoasif> ill do it again
[01:39] <bjsnider> try to reinstall the 195 driver
[01:40] <bjsnider> you might have to purge the mesa stuff too
[01:40] <yoasif> all of mesa?
[01:41] <bjsnider> as much as you can get
[01:41] <Sarvatt> packaging is probably sketchy in the 185 package you used
[01:41] <Sarvatt> yoasif: sudo nano /var/lib/dpkg/diversions
[01:41] <Sarvatt> err purge the nvidia stuff first
[01:41] <Sarvatt> then do that, and manually delete all the nvidia stuff
[01:42] <brian> Hey guys. Where is a good listing of the major features/changes/enhancements to Lucid?
[01:42] <Sarvatt> i used one of that sevenmachine persons blobs once and got left with a ton of dangling diversions i had to manually delete too
[01:43] <yoasif> ahh shit
[01:43] <yoasif> dpkg: unrecoverable fatal error, aborting:
[01:43] <yoasif>  unexpected eof reading `/var/lib/dpkg/diversions'
[01:43] <Sarvatt> go to the last line and hit enter?
[01:43] <yoasif> tried that
[01:44] <Sarvatt> there more than one newline at the end?
[01:44] <Sarvatt> shouldnt be able to go down more than one
[01:44] <bjsnider> dpkg-divert --remove --rename --package nvidia-glx-185 --divert /usr/lib/nvidia/libGL.so.1.xlibmesa /usr/lib/libGL.so.1 > /dev/null
[01:44] <yoasif> just one newline at the end
[01:44] <bjsnider> that's in the postrm script here
[01:45] <yoasif> ahh maybe someone should pastebin their diversions file
[01:45] <yoasif> bjsnider: that script didnnt work
[01:45] <bjsnider> try running the command i just posted
[01:45] <Sarvatt> ya should have a diversions-old you can use as a reference
[01:45] <yoasif> ah great
[01:45] <yoasif> mving it
[01:46] <Sarvatt> wouldnt move it, just meant to see what ya screwed up lol
[01:46] <yoasif> hehe cping
[01:46] <bjsnider> maybe the diversions file was broken and that's why the script didn't work
[01:46] <Sarvatt> pastebin your diversions and diversions-old yoasif?
[01:47] <Sarvatt> or did ya already overwrite it lol
[01:47] <yoasif> already gone :/
[01:47] <bjsnider> doesn't matter. he'll just add new diversions when he installs the 195 driver
[01:47] <Sarvatt> its probably ok, last package that made it write the -old one was the 195 anyway
[01:47] <yoasif> still getting the old diversion error
[01:47] <yoasif> dpkg-divert: `diversion of /usr/lib/libGL.so.1.2 to /usr/lib/nvidia/libGL.so.1.2.xlibmesa by nvidia-glx-195' clashes with `diversion of /usr/lib/libGL.so.1.2 to /usr/lib/nvidia/libGL.so.1.2.xlibmesa by nvidia-glx-185'
[01:47] <yoasif> after running the command bjsnider told me to try
[01:48] <bjsnider> no, that's different
[01:48] <Sarvatt> yah theres more than just libGL
[01:48] <bjsnider> hold on
[01:48] <bjsnider> dpkg-divert --remove --rename --package nvidia-glx-185 --divert /usr/lib/nvidia/libGL.so.1.2.xlibmesa /usr/lib/libGL.so.1.2 > /dev/null
[01:49] <yoasif> after the command, i get
[01:49] <yoasif> dpkg-divert: `diversion of /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so to /usr/lib/nvidia/libglx.so.xserver-xorg-core by nvidia-glx-195' clashes with `diversion of /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so to /usr/lib/nvidia/libglx.so.xserver-xorg-core by nvidia-glx-185'
[01:49] <Sarvatt> probably like 5 more
[01:49] <bjsnider> we're going point by point right down the line
[01:49] <bjsnider> let me post the script and you can run the commands
[01:49] <yoasif> sounds good
[01:49] <Sarvatt> open up your diversions again and replace the filenames :D
[01:50] <yoasif> id rather run bjsnider's script :p
[01:50] <yoasif> i screwed it up once already
[01:50] <Sarvatt> I bet ya just left the 2 lines above the package names at the top
[01:51] <yoasif> hehe, i don't really understand how the diversions file works otherwise id just do it manually
[01:52] <bjsnider> http://pastebin.com/d587c02ef
[01:52] <Sarvatt> http://pastebin.com/d26858ad
[01:52] <bjsnider> those are the commands you haven't run yet that are in the postrm script
[01:52] <Sarvatt> wait
[01:52] <Sarvatt> thats wrong?
[01:53] <Sarvatt> rm -f /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so.185.53 2> /dev/null
[01:53] <Sarvatt> looks like you just changed 190.53 to 185.53 there
[01:53] <yoasif> ooh looks like it worked
[01:53] <yoasif> should i reboot and see if it worked? lol
[01:54] <Sarvatt> dont need to reboot
[01:54] <Sarvatt> err
[01:54] <Sarvatt> unless you mean to see if 195 works
[01:54] <Sarvatt> lol
[01:54] <yoasif> gdm restart?
[01:54] <yoasif> yeah haha
[01:54] <Sarvatt> thought ya meant to see if the diversion removal worked sorry
[01:54] <yoasif> i could do gdm restart right
[01:54] <yoasif> yeah
[01:54] <yoasif> that seems to have worked
[01:54] <yoasif> installed fine as far as i can tell
[01:54] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, that definitely looks wrong
[01:55] <Sarvatt> thats what was in the script ya posted
[01:55] <yoasif> gdm restarting, wish me luck :P
[01:55] <bjsnider> now i have to update the driver again. thanks a lot
[01:55] <Sarvatt> evil evil nvidia packaging lol
[01:55] <bjsnider> at least hardly anybody is using the 185
[01:55] <Sarvatt> someone was saying they hoped i used sed to replace the hundreds of references to 185 to 190 when i was doing it
[01:55] <Sarvatt> but i couldnt for that exact reason
[01:56] <bjsnider> but that's not what his problem was
[01:56] <bjsnider> i thinkt hat would leave an orphaned file behind but that's all
[01:58] <Sarvatt> there were other places it would have gotten caught up where it was alot worse than a dangling file getting left behind but i cant remember off the top of my head
[01:58] <bjsnider> well, the control file for one
[01:59] <bjsnider> his diversions file must have been unparseable or something
[02:00] <Sarvatt> i think he left the 2 lines above the first nvidia-185-glx line
[02:00] <Sarvatt> just my guess :D
[02:11] <yoasif> took a couple of restarts, but i am now running 195
[02:11] <yoasif> compiz seems noticably faster
[02:13] <yoasif> bjsnider: Sarvatt, the file works now! :)
[02:13] <bjsnider> it's amazing what newer code will do for you
[02:14] <yoasif> very much so
[02:14] <bjsnider> check something for me
[02:14] <yoasif> thanks for the help with the diversions... if it wasnt for that i wouldnt have been able to install the 195 drivr
[02:15] <bjsnider> /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so.185.18.36
[02:15] <bjsnider> is that file on your system?
[02:15] <yoasif> bjsnider: no
[02:15] <bjsnider> hahaha
[02:15] <bjsnider> whatever
[02:15] <bjsnider> whatever dude
[02:15] <Sarvatt> lol
[02:15] <yoasif> i ran all the commands that you pastebin'd
[02:15] <yoasif> lol
[02:15] <yoasif> maybe one of the rms did it?
[02:16] <yoasif> removed it i mean
[02:16] <bjsnider> ok, i'm not updating the driver because that line doesn't need to be there
[02:16] <bjsnider> yoasif, no, the package itself removed it
[02:16] <yoasif> ah ok
[02:16] <yoasif> well, that was a crazy issue heh
[02:17] <bjsnider> i think your diversions file was corrupted and unparseable
[02:17] <yoasif> also, there is an issue with the nvidia drivers or something because it takes two restarts to activate the driver
[02:17] <yoasif> on my box anyway
[02:17] <bjsnider> so the postrm script couldn't do its work
[02:18] <yoasif> oh, i have one other REALLY nasty issue
[02:18] <yoasif> maybe you guys will have some ideas
[02:18] <Sarvatt> it probably deletes libglx.so.* in the preinst for the new driver, but i'm sure it'd leave the file dangling if someone removed 185 to switch to nouveau
[02:18] <bjsnider> lots of people have told me that it took two restarts to activate the new driver
[02:18] <yoasif> gdm sometimes lets me into my account without entering a password
[02:19] <yoasif> i think it goes something like this... logout, click my username, hit cancel, click username again, and im in my account
[02:19] <yoasif> (my account is set for auto login, but i don't think that is supposed to happen)
[02:19] <Sarvatt> yeah theres a bug with logins right now since about 12-22
[02:19] <yoasif> ok, well as long as it is known i guess
[02:19] <yoasif> i filed one but it got closed as invalid
[02:20] <Sarvatt> gnome livecd's dont even work :D
[02:20] <yoasif> but there wasnt much information i guess... probably should have been incomplete
[02:20] <yoasif> lol...
[02:22] <bjsnider> !info libxvidcore4
[02:22] <bjsnider> !info libxvidcore4-dev
[02:22] <bjsnider> version mismatch
[02:22] <bjsnider> sorry Sarvatt can't rebuild mplayer for lucid right now
[02:24] <Sarvatt> i have a feeling it wont build, was just about to look up the last time it was built in lucid
[02:25] <yoasif> bjsnider: so the vdpau ppa is safe to keep on?
[02:25] <bjsnider> sure is
[02:26] <yoasif> the new nvidia driver is actually helping my compiz effects a lot
[02:27] <bjsnider> compiz?
[02:27] <bjsnider> is that old thing still around?
[02:27] <Sarvatt> I know its your baby but realistically ya gotta expect there might be problems with the PPA drivers once tseliot updates nvidia in lucid :D
[02:27] <yoasif> but lucid had regressed in my effects speed over karmic
[02:27] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, i'll follow his updates
[02:27] <yoasif> bjsnider: what, are you using gnome shell?
[02:28] <bjsnider> yes i are
[02:28] <yoasif> haha
[02:28] <yoasif> yeah, from my experience it is nice
[02:28] <yoasif> is there a ppa with newer code?
[02:28]  * Sarvatt is using just plain mutter
[02:28] <Sarvatt> all i need is fast gl transparency :D
[02:28] <bjsnider> i wanted to create one, but i can't get the blasted gnome-shell to build. mutter will though
[02:29] <yoasif> Sarvatt: mutter is a wm?
[02:29] <yoasif> or is it like xcompmgr?
[02:34] <Sarvatt> yeah mutter is metacity with a clutter compositing engine instead of xrender metacity uses pretty much
[02:34] <yoasif> i like my expo wall too much :P
[02:34] <yoasif> main reason i switched away from openbox and came back to gnome :/
[02:38] <yoasif> interesting, i have mutter installed
[02:38] <yoasif> is mutter the compositing replacement for metacity?
[02:39] <bjsnider> that's about the size of it
[02:40] <bjsnider> metacity + clutter
[02:44] <Sarvatt> metacity can do compositing too but its has a slow xrender based compositing backend, ya can use mutter --replace to try it
[02:45] <Sarvatt> (try just mutter out I mean, metacity -c --replace would enable metacity compositing)
[02:46] <bjsnider> so you're just using mutter without gnome-shell?
[02:46] <bjsnider> wait, ha, you can't do that
[02:46] <bjsnider> i just remembered
[02:47] <yoasif> Sarvatt: im guessing it's really fast?
[02:47] <Sarvatt> depends what you mean fast :)
[02:48] <yoasif> faster than compiz i guess
[02:49] <Sarvatt> it slows down other 3D things the same as compiz does
[02:49] <Sarvatt> nah if anything its a bit slower
[02:49] <yoasif> ahh
[02:51] <Sarvatt> i just dont like compiz, cant go a week without it causing a problem when i do use it and this is alot less cpu intensive than metacity compositing :D
[02:51] <yoasif> ah i see
[02:53] <Sarvatt> the full gnome-shell is horrible on this netbook i'm on 99% of the time
[02:53] <bjsnider> it also has lots of stuff that's bling for its own sake
[02:56] <bjsnider> 99% cpu?
[02:57] <Sarvatt> meant i'm on a netbook 99% of the time, 8.9" screen :D
[02:57] <Sarvatt> the menus are horribly huge on this
[02:57] <bjsnider> horrible in what sense? slow?
[02:57] <Sarvatt> nah takes up way too much screen space
[02:58] <bjsnider> in overview mode?
[02:58] <Sarvatt> cant see enough to be useful in that overview mode either
[02:58] <Sarvatt> it shows like 3 items in each section
[02:58] <Sarvatt> i meant like the panel at the top and stuff
[02:59] <bjsnider> the panel is big?
[02:59] <Sarvatt> its like 3x as tall as my gnome-panel is
[02:59] <bjsnider> don't notice it here, but i'm not on a netbook
[02:59] <Sarvatt> yeah it looks fine on a normal screen but on this tiny 1024x600 one its too much
[03:00] <bjsnider> in overview, you can scroll-wheel the windows up in size
[03:00] <Sarvatt> the panel is like 80 pixels tall at the top
[03:00] <Sarvatt> maybe its just resizing that big because of font settings or something
[03:01] <bjsnider> dunno. you could go to their irc channel and ask
[03:07] <Sarvatt> i'm real happy with gnome-panel though, window-picker-applet and maximus make it nice on a tiny screen
[03:09] <Sarvatt> lets see if mplayer builds on lucid now, changed the nvidia-185-libvdpau-dev build-dep to libvdpau-dev and made it suggest libvdpau1. i dont think it's going to work right with the libxxf86vm-dev/x11proto-xf86vidmode-dev header change
[03:10] <bjsnider> libxvidcore is the problem
[03:11] <bjsnider> it should probably build-dep libvdpau1
[03:11] <bjsnider> although there was a debate about that between mario and a debian guy
[03:11] <bjsnider> it's quite an amusing read
[03:12] <bjsnider> should the driver demand libvdpau or should the player?
[03:14] <crimsun> demand is a bit strong
[03:15] <crimsun> it should probably Recommend it
[03:15] <bjsnider> i'm not getting pulled into this
[03:16] <crimsun> Policy is pretty clear, which is why I'm amused at the smoke n' mirrors
[03:17] <bjsnider> in my view, the graphics driver should pull in the library, so that the players can use it if it's there
[03:17] <bjsnider> and i don't know anything about the policy
[03:17] <bjsnider> and it sounds like a boring argument
[03:40] <Sarvatt> well it doesnt require libvdpau1 to use mplayer on non nvidia, I *guess* some people could possibly not want to waste the extra 100k having it forcibly installed with the nvidia driver but thats very non-intuitive for non-technical users who might want to use it and not know they should install that
[03:40] <Sarvatt> 100k in a 120mb package, oh darn :)
[03:42] <bjsnider> that's exactly what the argument between mario and the debian guy was centered on
[03:44] <bjsnider> of course mplayer should be built against the libvdpau headers
[03:44] <bjsnider> and you could argue that the library should then be installed with it
[03:50] <Sarvatt> the darn mplayer docs take ages to build and it does that first, kind of a pain in the butt for troubleshooting build errors :D
[03:52] <bjsnider> takes about 15-20 minutes total
[03:52] <Sarvatt> i'll have to dig through the lists, the arguement i saw was build related because it was trying to pull in headers that were already seperately packed into the mplayer a long time ago
[03:52] <bjsnider> was mario involved in it?
[03:54] <Sarvatt> nope
[03:57] <Sarvatt> the libxvidcore-dev things was fixed in the lucid source package already a few weeks before the one in nvidia-vdpau, guessing you based your svn checkout off karmic's debian/
[03:58] <bjsnider> not sure what you mean
[03:58] <bjsnider> it's a version mismatch
[03:58] <bjsnider> the dev package is a different version
[04:05] <Sarvatt> they aren't for me, must have worked all that out
[04:06] <bjsnider> perhaps you haven't updated or something
[04:06] <bjsnider> but i pinged the bot and it spit back different versions
[04:06] <bjsnider> !info libxvidcore4
[04:06] <bjsnider> !info libxvidcore4-dev
[04:09] <Sarvatt> ahh ok i'm blind
[04:10] <bjsnider> so the ppa build fails because the -dev package tries to pull in the main package but the version is different so splat...it fails
[04:11] <bjsnider> but why wasn't the dev package updated when the main package was?
[04:11] <bjsnider> that's strange
[04:12] <Sarvatt> it built fine in pbuilder
[04:13] <bjsnider> did you run a pbuilder update first?
[04:13] <bjsnider> you probably still have the older matching packages
[04:13] <Sarvatt> i just built the pbuilder environment on that machine
[04:14] <Sarvatt> it pulled in libxvidcore-dev 1.2.2, requirement in the mplayer deb is libxvidcore4 (>= 1.2.2), installed libxvidcore4 is 2:1.2.2+debian-0ubuntu1
[04:15] <bjsnider> so it pulled in a newer -dev package than the one in the ppa build system
[04:16] <bjsnider> wait
[04:17] <bjsnider> you pulled in libxvidcore-dev? not core4-dev?
[04:17] <Sarvatt> oh you did libxvidcore4 and libxvidcore4-dev there, i thought you did libxvidcore-dev vs libxvidcore4-dev
[04:17] <Sarvatt> yeah thats what the build-dep was changed to back in november in lucid
[04:17] <bjsnider> !info libxvidcore-dev
[04:17] <bjsnider> oh. no probem. didn't know about that.
[04:17] <Sarvatt> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mpeg4ip/+bug/486169
[04:20] <bjsnider> anything else i should know about?
[04:26] <Sarvatt> just a patch added relating to subtitles https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mplayer/2:1.0~rc3+svn20090426-1ubuntu12
[04:27] <Sarvatt> looks like thats the only one built since karmic, 1ubuntu11 must have failed because of the libxvidcore4-dev thing
[04:27] <bjsnider> the fontconfig patch?
[04:27] <bjsnider> i already have that
[04:27] <billybigrigger> hmm
[04:27] <billybigrigger> just noticed a calendar bug
[04:28] <Sarvatt> at least it builds fine against the header change unlike nvidia-settings, thats all i was worried about
[04:28] <billybigrigger> december 2009 shows the 27th (today) on sunday which is correct
[04:28] <billybigrigger> nevermind
[04:29] <Sarvatt> and with the libvdpau changes as well, and vdpau works fine on it
[04:29] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, the header change doesn't have anything to do with nvidia-settings
[04:31] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, what was that patch for nvidia-settings?
[04:31] <Sarvatt> mplayer has a build-dep on libxxf86vm-dev, if it needed that one header explicitly and didnt know about the changes after the split between proto/lib it could break like nvidia-settings did
[04:32] <Sarvatt> http://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=208926
[04:33] <bjsnider> well that package does exist in lucid
[04:34] <Sarvatt> what package?
[04:34] <bjsnider> libxxf86vm-dev'
[04:35] <Sarvatt> X11/extensions/xf86vmode.h was split into 2 seperate headers instead of all being in xf86vmode.h, if something needed something that was moved to the other header like nvidia-settings does it needs to check for it and build-dep on the proto
[04:37] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, what are they calling the patch in gentoo?
[04:39] <Sarvatt> wow, i *just* noticed nvidia-settings didnt build on edgers weeks ago, sheesh
[04:39] <Sarvatt> the success/fail icons arent on the screen on this tiny thing and i didnt scroll
[04:40] <Sarvatt> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=289744
[04:44] <bjsnider> but this isn't an mplayer patch
[04:44] <bjsnider> i an include it in future nvidia-settings builds though
[05:17] <Sarvatt> bjsnider: would you mind if i just copied your nvidia-settings package over to xorg-edgers since binary copies from the older release seems to work fine? only reason I'm even putting nvidia in there is because I'm about to bump the video abi next time xserver is updated
[05:18] <bjsnider> would i mind? this is gnu/linux we go there
[05:18] <bjsnider> you can do whatever you want
[05:18] <bjsnider> but you have to give me an mplayer patch
[05:18] <Sarvatt> there is no mplayer patch, I was building it to make sure it wouldnt need a patch
[05:19] <Sarvatt> :D
[05:19] <bjsnider> i c
[05:19] <bjsnider> well, the 195 is the latest nvidia-settings but it has a showstopper that i reported to the nvidia corporation
[05:19] <Sarvatt> thanks, I'm asking because sometimes people REALLY dont know what they are doing and copy packages out of edgers building against different things but the version still has my name in it so I get thrown off on bug reports
[05:20] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, actually now that i think of it
[05:20] <bjsnider> you probably should think twice about it
[05:20] <bjsnider> i sort of synced it to upstream debian
[05:21] <bjsnider> but i didn't use their rules file because it's based on debleper 7.3 or something
[05:21] <bjsnider> so my package is kind of a hybrid between old and new
[05:21] <bjsnider> and i'm not 100% sure it's stable
[05:21] <bjsnider> pretty sure though
[05:22] <Sarvatt> yeah I see, I was going to drop the whole -190 thing and make it plain nvidia-settings but getting rid of the dpatch junk is great :D i dont care as long as it works and nvidia-settings 180 has had a nasty xv contrast range bug since 185 was put in ubuntu
[05:22] <Sarvatt> it works fine, i'm using it on my nvidia lappy because i needed an out from broken nouveau the other day :D
[05:22] <bjsnider> i did drop the -190 thing, didn't i?
[05:22] <Sarvatt> nope, had to manually install nvidia-settings-190
[05:23] <bjsnider> oh. a new version is in the testing-ppa
[05:24] <bjsnider> i just haven't copied it over yet
[05:24] <bjsnider> https://launchpad.net/~nvidia-vdpau/+archive/testing-ppa
[05:24] <bjsnider> but it built fine
[05:25] <bjsnider> your netbook has an atom chip?
[05:26] <Sarvatt> yeah acer aspire one aoa150
[05:26] <bjsnider> you'd definitely benefit from the very latest vdpau code
[05:26] <Sarvatt> i'd be eyeing an ion one if this one didnt have 11 hours battery life
[05:27] <Sarvatt> oh nah this has intel graphics
[05:27] <Sarvatt> not trying to watch videos on a 9" screen either
[05:29] <Sarvatt> i've got other laptops with nvidia and ati for testing things on, i dont use linux on my HTPC because vdpau *really* sucks compared to DXVA2
[05:29] <Sarvatt> got 4TB of subtitled videos, and vdpau doesnt work with subtitles so yeah
[05:30] <bjsnider> vdpau works with subs
[05:30] <bjsnider> even works with ssa
[05:33] <Sarvatt> whoa, really? going to habe to look into that
[05:34] <bjsnider> you're right that it iddn't at first though
[05:34] <bjsnider> but they fixed that a long time ago now
[05:34] <bjsnider> just fire up smplayer and try out ssa subs and you'll see for yourself
[07:38] <Sarvatt> bjsnider: Hmm, subtitles are *almost* ok using the lucid mplayer I just rebuilt, but its not working at all with yours
[07:48] <Sarvatt> funny that pulseaudio uses 3x the cpu as mplayer playing back this bluray though :)
[09:24] <BUGabundo_work> bom dia
[13:05] <BUGabundo_work> can anyone point me in the direction of Ubuntu website webadmins?
[13:05] <BUGabundo_work> page aint loading in android browser
[13:07] <Pici> BUGabundo_work: You could file a bug here: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bugs
[13:07] <BUGabundo_work> well not sure its a bug
[13:07] <BUGabundo_work> need to debug it 1st
[13:07] <BUGabundo_work> but thanks for the link Pici
[13:08] <BUGabundo_work> inicially though it was the new android browser... but all other tested SSL pages works
[14:48] <CosmiChaos> hello, how to remove the annoying notify-osd debug-grid (orange) from lucid alpha?
[15:22] <yofel> CosmiChaos: that is possible, lemme look up hos
[15:22] <yofel> *how
[15:23] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, subtitles _almost_ work? they've worked perfectly for a ong time. i'm not sure why they aren't working for you, but what kind of files are you trying to play?
[15:23] <Sarvatt> darn, didnt I pastebin the info after I said that? i'm not near that machine now and in the middle of bisecting a libdrm problem
[15:24] <Sarvatt> was a 4Mb h264 high profile L4 video, ass subtitles, mkv container aac audio, 1080p
[15:25] <Sarvatt> had to bump my cpu speed up, it was stuttering with ondemand
[15:25] <bjsnider> ondemand?
[15:25] <Sarvatt> with your 1207 one I couldnt even get it to display anything though
[15:25] <Sarvatt> darn gotta run, i'll talk to ya later
[15:25] <bjsnider> i rebuilt mplayer last night as we were talking and copied it over this morning
[15:26] <yofel> CosmiChaos: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notify-osd/+bug/482661/comments/4
[15:43] <BUGabundo_work> hey bjsnider
[15:50] <om26er_> !test
[16:04] <bjsnider> BUGabundo_work, hey yo
[17:24] <BUGabundo_work> [OT] oh joy http://ubunlog.com.ar/blog/tras-una-pelea-richard-stallman-detenido-en-el-aeropuerto-de-miami/
[17:41] <genii> I have an ExpressCard 34 eSATA adapter which doesn't get detected unless it's in at boot time. Is there some hotplug module (like the old pciehp ) which could force detection?
[17:42] <shadeslayer_> wow.. even the experts have problems sometimes :P
[17:42] <shadeslayer_> (yes thats you genii :) )
[17:42]  * genii slides shadeslayer_ a coffee
[17:42]  * shadeslayer_ needed one
[17:43] <shadeslayer_> exams... :P
[17:49] <shadeslayer_> Shura: sorry for that,bad tab complete
[20:24] <promet> Hello, I was adding some custom scripts to my /etc/init.d/ dir, and I think I might have messed sumthin up. Some of my other scripts now no longer start automatically. I've checked my rc.* dirs, and can't find anything obviously out of whack. I think this has also prevents my virtual tty's from launching, as they are unresponsive when I try and access them via "ctrl-alt-F1 TO f6"
[20:24] <promet> Any Thoughts?
[20:26] <promet> :-D
[20:26] <yofel> hm.. checked that all symlinks in rc2.d are ok? do you still know which scripts you added?
[20:31] <promet> Just one actually, it was one I've written to autostart a Shoutcast server. I used the "update-rc.d defaults" command
[20:31] <promet> I haven't actually checked rc2.d links will do that now though, thanks for the feedback.
[20:32] <yofel> well, I don't know too much about sysvinit, especially since we now have a upstart/sysvinit mix
[20:32] <yofel> promet: why don't you convert it to an  upstart script?
[20:33] <promet> I don't have any experience with upstart, but I'm not against getting into it. Is it installed in Karmic, or do I have to fetch it? Does it coexist with init.d or "replace" it?
[20:34] <yofel> promet: it's supposed to replace it, we're in the middle of that process, the new scripts are in /etc/init
[20:34] <yofel> !upstart
[20:35] <yofel> promet: and it's used by default on karmic and lucid
[20:35] <promet> Thanks, I will check that out.
[20:36] <promet> I appreciate all of your input. Thanks!
[20:38] <promet> Just a clarification though, the /etc/init.d/ directory is a part of the "system-v init" system?
[20:38] <yofel> promet: yes, the upstart scripts are being kept in /etc/init/
[20:38] <promet> Cool, thx.
[20:40] <elops> how do i update my menu.lst for an updated kernel version?
[20:40] <elops> is there a way i can get apt-get to just do that once again?
[20:40] <yofel> elops: 'sudo update-grub' should do that for you
[20:41] <yofel> elops: any reason why you're using grub-legacy?
[20:44] <DasEi> elops: if you install a kernel via apt or the update-functions, they get there automated
[20:44] <elops> i had added a param into the menu.lst, which it detected, and gave me a curses page to choose an option
[20:44] <elops> looks like it left the old menu.lst there
[20:44] <elops> ?
[20:45] <yofel> elops: err...  how did you edit your menu.lst? If  you edit the kernel boot lines by hand you'll get a curses interface and the default is 'do nothing'
[20:45] <elops> update-grub completed, but didnt change the file - i kept a copy before it, and diffed them
[20:46] <yofel> elops: can you pastebin your menu.lst?
[20:48] <elops> yes
[20:48] <elops> http://pastebin.ca/1729858
[20:49] <yofel> ok, remembered something
[20:49] <elops> ive only pasted the end of it, cause the rest is all comments
[20:49] <elops> i guess it did the do-nothing - how do i now get it to do what it was supposed to do?
[20:49] <elops> the change i had originally done to it was the maxcpus=1
[20:49] <yofel> first, rename your menu.lst to menu.lst.bak or something like that, then run update-grub to get a blank one
[20:50] <yofel> elops: then, can you please paste the WHOLE file again? I need a part of the comments and I don't have a menu.lst myself
[20:53] <yofel> elops: ping?
[20:54] <elops> paste the new one, or the old one?
[20:54] <yofel> elops: doesn't matter, I need the comments
[20:58] <elops> http://pastebin.ca/1729869
[20:59] <sebsebseb> hi
[21:00] <promet> Wow, this whole "Upstart" thing is a major change, I'm glad you guys told me about that, lol!
[21:00] <elops> ive diffed the newly-created one and the existing - the only changes seem to be in the display strings 'ubuntu 8.04.2' to 'ubuntu 8.04.3'
[21:00] <elops> and of course, removed my maxcpus=1 option
[21:00] <promet> I have been floundering around without that information for days now.
[21:01] <promet> What is the method by which your average user is supposed to become aware of that sort of Dist-change? There ought to be a newsletter or soemthing...
[21:01] <elops> yofel ?
[21:02] <elops> http://pastebin.ca/1729876
[21:02] <promet> Qouth the newsletter: "Oh, and btw, your entire startup script infrastructure is changing in Karmic; get hip quick!"
[21:02] <yofel> elops: on line 89 you'll see a defoptions= option, please put your maxcpus=1 there
[21:02] <yofel> elops: and since you seem to be running hardy, let's move this to #ubuntu
[21:02] <elops> ok sir
[21:03] <promet> Thanks again, am now rebooting to test out upstart script changes, later!
[21:03] <elops> this is the diff of the newly-created menu.lst (by update-grub) vs the old one
[21:09] <acidwash> hi
[21:10] <acidwash> which future release of ubutnu will be i686 optimized ?
[21:10] <acidwash> or
[21:11] <acidwash> is there any ongoing project to launch i686 optimized version of release ? thx
[21:12] <crimsun> acidwash: there are no current plans, but you can rebuild all the sources packages yourself.
[21:12] <penguin42> acidwash: The problem is if you do that do you optimise for 686, AMD, Core2, i7 or what?
[21:13] <acidwash> crimsun: i am trying but it seems like it takes for ever
[21:13] <penguin42> acidwash: You'll get most benefit by recompiling a handful of libraries and the kerne;
[21:13] <acidwash> using apt-build to do such
[21:13] <crimsun> acidwash: several years ago, a handful of devs profiled the kernel, libc, openssl, etc., and established that only for a handful of programs is there any discernable speed-up.
[21:14] <acidwash> hmm
[21:14] <penguin42> crimsun: I do wonder if that's as true these days; especially with things like ss4.2 having ops for string handling
[21:14] <acidwash> yeah i read that, i386 is reliable
[21:15] <crimsun> penguin42: I would venture it isn't too far off the mark, but we certainly could revisit it if an enterprising community member drives it.
[21:16] <penguin42> crimsun: Hehe, I probably don't have the time at the moment; but my guess is sooner or later it might get worth it; although I know some of the critical kernel routines (e.g. RAID etc) already do special stuff if they have it
[21:17] <acidwash> crimsun: will apt-build world accomplish my concern
[21:17] <crimsun> acidwash: it will probably get you some ways toward it
[21:17] <penguin42> acidwash: I really wouldn't rebuild the whole let - I mean do you really care about the performance of something boring like the hibernate/indicator applet?
[21:18] <penguin42> ^let^lot
[21:18] <acidwash> penguin42: well no harm in trying so ?
[21:19] <maxb> other than taking so long that the entire exercise becomes impractical
[21:19] <penguin42> acidwash: Well ok if you can wait that long for it to rebuild, but my point is you'll get most of the benefit by some of the main libs and prog you use a lot
[21:19] <acidwash> oh ok
[21:19] <foreverubun2> Is Lucid stable-ish? ie not crashing whenever you use the keyboard
[21:19] <acidwash> penguin42: how about optimizing the base system ? my kernel is already i 686
[21:20] <penguin42> acidwash: Yeh do the base stuff and you'll get a long way
[21:20] <acidwash> penguin42: and base packages/modules/libs ... etc are ?
[21:21] <yoasif> this is all meaningless if you are running a 64bit os right?
[21:22] <acidwash> nop
[21:22] <acidwash> its 32
[21:23] <maxb> foreverubun2: Depends how you define '-ish'
[21:23] <maxb> Seems to be OK for me, but only after I recompiled the i915 kernel module using the version from karmic, because lucid's was breaking for me
[21:24] <maxb> i.e. it's not critically broken, but don't expect it to be pain free either
[21:29] <penguin42> yoasif: ish, the 586-686 difference yes, but for example the difference between optimising for an original Opteron and a current opteron or an i7 may be useful - or might not be
[21:51] <Mic__hael> can anyone confirm the empathy regression in bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/451568? I just added a note to confirm that I am still seeing this in Lucid
[22:22] <BUGabundo> boas ninos
[22:22] <syn-ack> sup BUGabundo
[22:23] <BUGabundo> nothing much
[22:23] <acidwash> guten mortgen
[22:23] <syn-ack> werd
[22:26] <acidwash> what happen to ubuntu mirrors and archive. i get max 10 to 12 kbb dl
[22:26] <bjsnider> i'm banging them heavy for a personal project. hope you don't mind
[22:27] <acidwash> i use to get alot more
[22:27] <acidwash> *used
[22:28] <acidwash> bahhh
[22:28] <acidwash> it dropped to 4 bps
[22:28] <acidwash> *kbps
[22:30] <acidwash> bjsnider: how much dl speed u get ?
[22:31] <bjsnider> all of it
[22:31] <acidwash> u greedy
[22:31] <acidwash> leave some for me p
[22:31] <bjsnider> i'm trying to rebuild all qt packages to use gtk instead
[22:31] <bjsnider> thus stamping out the scourge that is kde forever
[22:32] <penguin42> bjsnider: That's erm interesting
[22:32] <yofel> o.O
[22:32] <yofel> can't you just set qt to use the gtk theme? or what's the problem?
[22:32] <bjsnider> no, qt must not exist anymore
[22:35] <syn-ack> QT and KDE really is evil
[22:35] <acidwash> i like gnome p
[22:35]  * kinja-sheep is away: Dogpark!
[22:43]  * DanaG has actually switched to kde now.
[22:43]  * ToxinPowe ToxinPowe too
[22:43] <ToxinPowe> ups xD
[22:44] <BluesKaj> bjsnider, I find gtk just too cartooney for myn taste
[22:44] <yofel> I have nothing against kde, but I got increasingly annoyed with gnome
[22:44] <yofel> and kde is really nice since 4.3, and 4.4 is great
[22:45] <acidwash> so is gnome
[22:45] <BluesKaj> the panel at the top of the screen is annoying too
[22:45] <yofel> I don't say gnome is bad, it's nice, I just like kde better
[22:45] <ToxinPowe> KDE 4.4 is so nice... even for gnome users, like me ;P
[22:45] <acidwash> kde is buggy
[22:46] <bjsnider> osx has a top panel. windows has a bottom panel
[22:46] <bjsnider> kde is more like windows
[22:46] <yofel> BluesKaj: haha, i actually have my kde panel at the top ^^
[22:46] <BluesKaj> yofel, well to each his own :p
[22:47] <Tscheesy> KDE has an OSX-like Panel for the Netbook-Version ;)
[22:47] <BluesKaj> daughters OSX has bottom panel
[22:50] <ToxinPowe> don't stop the flame, I would like read another GNOME vs KDE xd
[22:50] <acidwash> gnome is rock solid
[22:51] <ToxinPowe> true
[22:51] <Tscheesy> KDE-Users are just Happy with theire System - they don't need to flame
[22:51] <yofel> as are gnome users
[22:52] <ToxinPowe> :o
[22:52] <Tscheesy> so then - where just fine ;)
[22:52] <yofel> I had crashes in gnome as I had them in kde
[22:52] <Tscheesy> *we are
[22:52] <yofel> which one has more bugs is something I don't want to judge
[22:53] <ToxinPowe> what do you think about GNOME future?
[22:53] <acidwash> CHROME p
[22:53] <yofel> dunno, I have to admit that have never ever tried gnome-shell since it came after I switched to kde
[22:59] <ToxinPowe> I tried gnome-shell and I don't like, we'll see
[23:02] <bjsnider> probably everybody will eventually be using gnome-shell
[23:04] <ToxinPowe> why?
[23:07] <BUGabundo> 'cause that's the way Gnome is ehading
[23:07] <BUGabundo> *heading
[23:07]  * penguin42 admits to not liking the general drag of having to follow the crowd; there are things I really don't like and are now hard to change within either of gnome or kde
[23:09] <bjsnider> gnome-shell makes it easier for the user to interact with the desktop without sacrificing screen real estate
[23:09] <Tscheesy> penguin42:  that's the way it is under Linux - otherways - not updating for a longer Period leaves your System in a unusable state
[23:10] <penguin42> Tscheesy: And as I say, I really don't like it - it used to be that gnome/kde were quite tunable so if you didn't like something you could change it
[23:10] <Tscheesy> one can't stop development ;)
[23:11] <penguin42> Tscheesy: I'm just not sure it's better
[23:12] <Tscheesy> you can use Debian stable - but still this one will update sooner or later
[23:12] <penguin42> Tscheesy: I know what I can do, I think you're missing my point
[23:12] <Tscheesy> it's too hard to do all the security backports
[23:18] <syn-ack> I liked KDE when it was still in the 3.5x series... I just can't stand KDE 4 since it's slow, Bloated, and like I think it was Tscheesy it doesnt seem as "Tweakable"
[23:18] <syn-ack> And yes, I've seen the mockups of Gnome 3 and I don't like that either. :/
[23:18] <bjsnider> why did you ike kde 3.5?
[23:19] <syn-ack> It was faster, and imo more tightly integrated
[23:19] <syn-ack> you didnt have all this BS with their widgets and stuff like you do now
[23:19] <syn-ack> again, thats just my personal opinion, not trying to flame
[23:20] <bjsnider> of course it's your personal opinion
[23:20] <Tscheesy> syn-ack: SC4.4Beta2 is a big step in performance i think - for Tweaks the GUI's are missing atm
[23:20] <syn-ack> Tscheesy: hrm
[23:21] <syn-ack> and I dont know what it is but I never really liked Kubuntu... it didnt seem quite as "refined" as Ubuntu... and I can't put my finger on it
[23:22] <bjsnider> kde is ok in mandr*whateveritscallednow
[23:22] <syn-ack> yeah, I didn't mind it in Gentoo either
[23:22] <Tscheesy> syn-ack: take a look at the KNE when 10.04 is published ;)
[23:22] <syn-ack> heh
[23:23] <syn-ack> bjsnider: Then again, I was using KDE 3.5 in Gentoo as well but that really was so many years ago
[23:24] <bjsnider> i think people typically come to kde from windows because the gui is similar, but then move to gnome as they get more experienced and don't want kde's millions of useless options and lengthy explanations of everything
[23:25] <bjsnider> that was the case with me, in any event
[23:25] <syn-ack> meh
[23:26] <syn-ack> When I started using linux, It was Gnome 1.x anyway. :P
[23:26] <Tscheesy> bjsnider: i started with Gnome ..then Mandrike ended with Kubuntu :)
[23:26] <syn-ack> God, I've been using this for far too long
[23:26] <penguin42> When I started using linux it was fvwm!
[23:26] <syn-ack> penguin42: hah
[23:26] <syn-ack> Hell, I remember using Sawfish as my WM in Gnome
[23:26] <ToxinPowe> fvwm, wmaker, icewm... yeah xD
[23:26] <penguin42> (although when I started using Unix it was a text terminal)
[23:28] <syn-ack> Then from there I moved on to CDE for a little bit and I actually liked that. :P
[23:28] <syn-ack> Its just a shame that CDE isnt open
[23:29] <penguin42> cde on linux?  :P
[23:31] <penguin42> crimsun: Yeh I bounced between them over the years; never really got on with KDE4 though
[23:32] <crimsun> KDE 4.3.x is quite nice; 4.4 SC is looking quite good, too
[23:33] <crimsun> ultimately for me it doesn't matter; I pretty much only use terminal emulators, tmux/byobu, etc.
[23:34] <ToxinPowe> excuse me, Are you from the past??? /IT CROWD off
[23:34] <ToxinPowe> xD
[23:35] <penguin42> crimsun: I don't know if they've changed it more recently; but what got me on 4.x was them making the desktop more dynamic but restricted - i.e. it was now harder just to put arbitrary files and links and stuff on the background - that's been something you've been able to do for a long long time now
[23:35] <crimsun> ToxinPowe: I don't know if I'd identify with Moss offhand, though
[23:35] <ToxinPowe> =)
[23:39] <DanaG> bad punctuation: "wan't new software..."?
[23:40] <DanaG> =P
[23:40] <alex_mayorga> is nv still broken?
[23:55] <bjsnider> crimsun, so for you, the linux gui desktop achieved everything it ever needed in the mid-1990s. is that accurate?
[23:58] <BUGabundo> lolol
[23:58] <BUGabundo> all but be rich


[01:25] <TheMuso> /c/c
[05:49] <heathkid> trying firefox
[05:49] <heathkid> just a sec
[05:49] <heathkid> win explorer completely crashed
[05:49] <heathkid> had to end process
[06:42] <cvanvliet> infinity, I heard in #beagle, that there is talk at TI re SGX, omap3 armhf
[06:42] <cvanvliet> they have it a copy internally
[07:57] <infinity> cvanvliet: Snazzy.
[07:57] <cvanvliet> who do we poke ;)
[07:58]  * cvanvliet wants an LTS version of ubuntu, just as much as any speed increase
[08:00] <infinity> cvanvliet: The poking would go to ndec and robclark, I assume, to get it released in the wild.  From there, we can probably hand-wavingly SRU it to precise.
[08:02] <cvanvliet> s/poke/beg
[08:07] <cvanvliet> if they are in the UK, I would certainly by them a beer ;)
[08:14] <ndec> infinity: neither robclark nor me are doing any work on OMAP3.
[08:15] <infinity> ndec: Fair enough.  Figured maybe that if there were shiny internal omap3 sgx builds, you guys might still be more in the know than, say, me.
[08:15] <ndec> nope.
[08:16] <infinity> Kay. :)
[08:16] <ndec> i think #beagle is the better place to ask.
[08:20] <cvanvliet> ndec, well for me it is about getting omap3 sgx into an ubuntu LTS, not just SGX
[08:20] <cvanvliet> but thanks, I will pursue there
[08:21] <ndec> the problem is armhf right? TI is doing SGX releases publicly for OMAP3, iirc.
[08:21] <cvanvliet> yes
[08:22] <cvanvliet> there is no roadblock here for me, it is just not how I want things :)
[08:22] <cvanvliet> everyone is moving towards armhf, and we will be stuck on armel
[09:07] <infinity> cvanvliet: If you can give me pointers to public omap3 sgx builds that will work on precise/armhf, I can drive getting them included in an SRU.
[09:09] <cvanvliet> thanks
[10:04] <ogra_> ndec, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1052388/ do you have any nice cpuinfo lines for me for omap4460 based blazes etc ?
[10:15] <ndec> ogra_: I don't have it, but the source code says this: http://git.linaro.org/gitweb?p=landing-teams/working/ti/kernel.git;a=blob;f=arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-4430sdp.c;h=b61d0ed718a013557c4c5affd555be7b01729447;hb=2c963fa702cb8bcc4eb3a580e05e3304df4911b2#l997
[11:16] <lilstevie> ogra_: hardware line cardhu for tf201, and ofc cardhu development platform
[11:16] <lilstevie> ogra_: nvidia-tegra ofc
[11:17] <lilstevie> if you would like to add that one
[11:17] <ogra_> lilstevie, i need the exact copy/paste please
[11:18] <lilstevie> k sec
[11:18] <ogra_> ndec, hmm, so there is no 4460 blaze ?
[11:19] <lilstevie> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1052478
[11:20] <ogra_> uuh, ok
[11:20] <lilstevie> is there something you are looking for there that is missing?
[11:20]  * ogra_ has never seen such a short HW string on arm yet
[11:20] <lilstevie> heh
[11:21] <lilstevie> tf101 is the same
[11:21] <lilstevie> tf101 is ventana
[11:21] <lilstevie> nothing extra
[11:22] <ogra_> added both
[11:22] <lilstevie> thanks :)
[11:32] <ndec> ogra_: there are 4460 blaze, but they will use the same 'machine', so same output.
[11:32] <ndec> like panda btw.
[11:32] <ogra_> ok
[11:33] <ogra_> yeah, well, if someone is insane enough to use a lucid kernel on his install or so, the old values would still match
[11:33] <ogra_> (not that the driver would work though :P)
[11:33] <ndec> ogra_: that said... if you want to be doing something with some forward thinking... you need to handle device tree as well.
[11:33] <ndec> for DT, you will have 1 generic name for each CPU family. iirc
[11:34] <ogra_> well, 80% of our HW detection tools on arm use cpuinfo
[11:34] <ogra_> i wont have to care how it is populated
[11:35] <ndec> ogra_: but the cpuinfo/machine info will be different on a panda which is booted with DT
[11:35] <ogra_> oh, yeah, indeed
[11:35] <hrw> ogra_: so now we have one rfc822 database in flash-kernel?
[11:36] <ogra_> hrw, not sure if its rfc conform, but yeah, we have a DB
[11:36] <ogra_> i think infinity planned to actually split out a -data package that has only the DB
[11:36] <ndec> ogra_: if you look at that: http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git;a=blob;f=arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-generic.c;h=20293465786701f8650e1377ea070c6eee536673;hb=bc259adc9b76f625fff0423df3ffb80a03802927
[11:36] <ndec> you see that all OMAP4 will show up as "Generic OMAP4 (Flattened Device Tree)"
[11:37] <ndec> and all OMAP5 will be "Generic OMAP5 (Flattened Device Tree)"
[11:37] <ndec> etc...
[11:37] <ogra_> right, but "OMAP4" would match all oamp4 devices still
[11:37] <ogra_> even if i would have typed it right :P
[11:37] <ndec> note that it will be a problem ... since not all OMAP4 will use the same pvr-omap4 ;-)
[11:37] <ndec> 4430 and 4460 have the same GPU, 4470 have a different GPU.
[11:38] <ogra_> for these we need a more specific matching then
[11:38] <ndec> with conflicting libs in the user space
[11:38] <hrw> 4470 got MP2 powervr?
[11:38] <ndec> 4470 544, single core
[11:38] <ogra_> for now the concept of having a line per supported SoC should be fine
[11:38] <lilstevie> is that exported somewhere though
[11:38] <ndec> OMAP5 is 544 MP2
[11:39] <lilstevie> or visible from sysfs
[11:39] <ndec> lilstevie: i don't know for now. we manage it 'by hand' for now, and don't have a clean solution yet.
[11:40] <lilstevie> sure
[11:43]  * XorA|gone wonders when PVR will catch up with the 1990s and have runtime detection
[11:52] <lilstevie> heh
[11:52] <lilstevie> the tegra driver does it
[11:53] <ndec> lilstevie: how is it done on the tegra? 1 set of user space binary blobs that work on multiple h/w? or is it doing some symlinks tricks?
[11:56] <lilstevie> 1 binary
[11:57] <lilstevie> they have released platform tarballs for each development device, but the binaries work across devices just fine
[12:04] <ndec> lilstevie: ok... we aren't there yet with PVR.
[12:04] <lilstevie> fair enough
[12:04] <lilstevie> it is all good having one binary, but five binaries that work would be better :p
[12:05] <ndec> well, we have the binaries that work ;-)
[12:07] <lilstevie> heh
[12:07] <lilstevie> tegra ones are horrible
[12:07] <lilstevie> the latest release is probably the best yet though
[12:07] <lilstevie> :p
[13:19] <janimo> ogra_, so did you test with current 3.1 kernel and graphics work with the latest nvidia drivers?
[13:19] <janimo> if so the ac100-meta can also be bumped to make the 3.1 version the default
[13:20] <ogra_> janimo, i think infinity did right after your upload anyway :)
[13:20] <ogra_> and yes, a smoketest worked
[13:20] <janimo> ogra_,  I thought so too, but I tried the installer yesterday and got 3.0,27
[13:20] <ogra_> i havet used it for long though
[13:20] <janimo> the installer crashed though
[13:20] <ogra_> i dont think we have recent ac100 images for quantal yet
[13:21] <janimo> ogra_, ah I missed they were dated May 30
[13:21] <ogra_> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-preinstalled/current/ has images from may 30
[13:21] <janimo> just saw they're under jun 18 or such
[13:21] <ogra_> i fixed flash-kernel though, the next successfull build should have them
[13:21] <janimo> ogra_, is this because the kernel will likely not boot?
[13:21] <janimo> ogra_, good to know then
[13:22] <ogra_> the kernel will likely need a console statement or so
[13:22] <ogra_> in the bootargs
[13:22] <ogra_> but i first want working images before i look into details
[14:52]  * satellit_ testing TrimSlice -h 250
[22:18] <robclark> rsalveti, ogra_, we need precise on http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/21/hp-passport-1912nm-internet-monitor/  :-)
[22:19] <robclark> actually you might even just be able to take an o4/panda image and boot it.. not sure, maybe there is a new board file, etc..


[06:08] <didrocks> good morning
[06:18] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[06:20] <didrocks> hey pitti
[06:21]  * pitti pulls his hair out on the racy systemddm tests
[06:22] <didrocks> pitti: do you have the journalctl order?
[06:22] <didrocks> would be interesting to see the boot ordering, at least, if it's been run
[06:23] <didrocks> I wonder why it became racy suddenly…
[06:23] <pitti> I mean I get the self.assertTrue(self.is_active_unit('systemddm')) failure pretty much always in jenkins, but almost no time when I run it manually
[06:23] <pitti> I'll try to get a journal the next time it happens
[06:24] <pitti> but it's just a matter of waiting a bit longer AFAICS
[06:24] <didrocks> with the "wait for job-list to be empty", right?
[06:25] <pitti> yes
[06:26] <pitti> and no "activating" jobs any more
[06:26] <didrocks> crazyness…
[06:26] <seb128> hey didrocks pitti desktopers
[06:26] <didrocks> hey seb128
[06:27] <pitti> bonjour seb128, ça va ?
[06:27] <seb128> pitti, oui, très bien, et toi ?
[06:28] <pitti> je vais bien aussi, merci !
[06:30] <pitti> Apr 08 06:29:25 autopkgtest systemd[1]: start request repeated too quickly for systemddm.service
[06:30] <pitti> didrocks: ^ could it be that?
[06:31] <didrocks> pitti: oh, that shouldn't happen, interesting…
[06:31] <didrocks> let me look at systemddm
[06:31] <larsu> morning!
[06:32] <didrocks> pitti: so, it can be the qemu issue
[06:32] <didrocks> pitti: see create_systemd_dm_unit(), I'm copying the lightdm.service
[06:32] <didrocks> removing the Bus= line (as it won't match)
[06:32] <didrocks> pitti: but that's what is used in all tests
[06:34] <pitti> didrocks: no, I mean could this be triggered simply by the fact that the tests start/stop systemddm very often?
[06:34] <didrocks> pitti: oh, you removed the 2s…
[06:34] <pitti> didrocks: before it says "systemddm.service holdoff time over, scheduling restart."
[06:34] <didrocks> so yeah, we maybe burst the limit
[06:34] <pitti> ah, then I'll put that back
[06:35] <didrocks> pitti: good catch!
[06:35] <didrocks> that or removing the limit in the .service file
[06:35] <pitti> didrocks: right, I get that by manual systemctl stop/start too
[06:36] <didrocks> pitti: so StartLimitBurst=42?
[06:38] <pitti> didrocks: I'll try setting DefaultStartLimit* in /run/systemd/system.conf.d/autopkgtest.conf
[06:40] <didrocks> pitti: hum, impacting all tests? Do you think it's not a trap for future-tests?
[06:41] <pitti> didrocks: ah, you mean only add that to systemddm.service?
[06:41] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, seems safer to me?
[06:42] <didrocks> in the create_systemd_dm_unit() method
[06:42] <pitti> didrocks: I was concerned it would also affect lightdm.service, but it actually hasn't so far
[06:42] <didrocks> pitti: actually, systemddm.service is the service that is the most activated in the tests
[06:42] <didrocks> that's why others are not impacted I guess
[06:43] <pitti> didrocks: hm, can I append something with that fileinput iterator?
[06:43] <pitti> ah, I'll append it after [Service]
[06:44] <didrocks> pitti: I was going to propose that
[06:44] <didrocks> if (line == "[Service]"):
[06:44] <didrocks>     print(line)
[06:44] <didrocks>     print("StartBurst…")
[06:46] <pitti> didrocks: right, I tried that, with burst=1 and limit=30, but that still doesn't reproduce it
[06:47] <pitti> didrocks: might actually be easier to call systemctl reset-failed during the "reload stuff"
[06:48] <didrocks> pitti: makes sense, and even better
[06:52] <pitti> didrocks: hm, that line mangling doesn't work for me, but anyway, I'll try the reset-failed
[06:54]  * pitti -> errand, bbl
[07:43] <willcooke> morning all
[07:44] <happyaron> morning willcooke
[07:45] <willcooke> hey happyaron - how's it going?
[07:45] <happyaron> great, releasing new version of sogoupinyin atm
[07:46] <willcooke> awesome!
[07:47] <seb128> hey willcooke happyaron
[07:48] <didrocks> good morning willcooke, happyaron
[07:48] <happyaron> hey seb128
[07:48] <happyaron> didrocks: morning :)
[07:48] <seb128> willcooke, I read the meeting log yesterday, you didn't get my email with my weekly summary? :-/
[07:48] <seb128> I sent it in the morning in case I was not around
[07:48] <seb128> in reply to the weekly email reminder
[07:54] <willcooke> hey seb128, erm, yeah - I'd marked it as read and then it vanished off my radar.   Sorry about that
[07:55] <seb128> willcooke, no worry
[08:03] <Laney> yo
[08:03] <seb128> howdy Laney!
[08:06] <didrocks> hey Laney!
[08:06] <Laney> hello my pals from across a bit of water
[08:06] <Laney> how is it going?
[08:08] <willcooke> Laney, you're talking about Grafham Water right?  In which case, I'm fine!
[08:09] <Laney> that place will forever be about school trips to me
[08:09] <willcooke> :D
[08:09] <willcooke> Very boring bike rides for me
[08:10] <Laney> I remember being shown around a sewage treatment plant there one time
[08:10] <Laney> it was a good life
[08:10] <willcooke> When I used to do IT support for Anglian Water I went to *that* sewage works.  For reals, no foolin
[08:11] <Laney> That's the kind of crash you don't want to have ...
[08:11] <willcooke> :D
[09:00] <seb128> larsu, did you open a bug about the greeter/hidpi/bg flicker issue?
[09:01] <seb128> Laney, not sure if you saw me mentioning the new cairo the other day, unsure if that's an update worth getting in vivid still? maybe you want to have a look to it? ;-)
[09:01] <Laney> Yeah I have it on a list
[09:02] <seb128> great, thanks
[09:03] <larsu> seb128: I did not, because there are already some that go in that direction. I did however forget to ping robert_ancell. Thanks for reminding me
[09:03] <seb128> larsu, yw
[09:03] <seb128> larsu, I think I'm just going to disable the scaling on the greeter for vivid
[09:03] <seb128> there is still the menus issue also which is unfixed
[09:03] <seb128> darkxst, Laney, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/201946184/adwaita-icon-theme_3.14.0-2ubuntu7co1.diff might be for you (it's in the sponsoring queue)
[09:03] <larsu> seb128: ok. I won't bother robert then until the sprint
[09:04] <larsu> needs some discussion anyway
[09:04] <seb128> larsu, k, makes sense
[09:06] <Laney> seb128: ya, I have cairo written down
[09:06] <Laney> & will look at that other one, thx
[09:07] <seb128> Laney, you already replied 5 minutes ago, but thanks :-)
[09:07] <Laney> did I?
 Yeah I have it on a list
[09:07] <Laney> must have been dreaming
[09:07] <larsu> I was about to say...
[09:07] <Laney> at least I said the same thing both times
[09:07] <larsu> but then didn't in case I misread something again
[09:07] <seb128> lol
[09:07] <larsu> Laney: getting old?
[09:07] <Laney> irc, bug report, two man pages, staring out of the window at the sunny day
[09:08] <Laney> too many inputs
[09:08] <seb128> those damn windows
[09:08] <seb128> wonder if we get some of those in the sprint hotel this time
[09:08] <Laney> we can go work in hyde park if not
[09:09] <seb128> under the rain?
[09:09] <larsu> how's the weather in england?
[09:09] <willcooke> I vote for a boat on the lake in Hyde Park
[09:09] <seb128> they have roofs on their boats right?
[09:09] <willcooke> larsu, right now - it's bloomi' lovely
[09:09] <seb128> or you just end up being between 2 layers of water?
[09:09]  * seb128 stops mocking the british weather
[09:09] <willcooke> You can only get so wet, right?
[09:10] <larsu> so can my laptop
[09:21] <pitti> Laney: so vila also has a machine with a missing /etc/rcS.d/*networking link; I'm beginning to suspect some ancient upgrade bug here
[09:21] <pitti> Laney: I asked other reporters in bug 1430675 to check for this
[09:21] <pitti> Laney: but I think it might not hurt to upload an ifupdown which re-creates the symlink if it's entirely missing
[09:22] <pitti> Laney: update-rc.d disable will create a K??networking symlink instead, so we can tell apart that case and not break that
[09:29] <Laney> pitti: You mean if there's no /etc/rcS.d/K??networking then re-enable the service?
[09:29] <darkxst> seb128, I still need to apply for -desktop, for these things I guess
[09:30] <pitti> Laney: yes; i. e. if there is no rcS.d/*networking at all
[09:31] <pitti> Laney: at least for vila it happend around the upgrade to trusty, but apparently was hidden by the /etc/init/networking.conf upstart job
[09:31] <pitti> or we add a proper networking systemd unit
[09:32] <vila> pitti: haaaa, that's what made it work with upstart, thanks, was wondering...
[09:33] <Laney> I guess applying a hammer would be reasonable
[09:33] <darkxst> seb128, that said the diff makes sense, since probably files moved from gnome-themes into adwaita-icon-theme
[09:36] <seb128> darkxst, right
[09:40] <darkxst> seb128, so +1 from me, just can't actually sponsor it
[09:40] <seb128> darkxst, noted, thanks, I think Laney was looking at uploading it
[09:40] <Laney> ya
[10:10] <pitti> Laney: uploaded ifupdown with that hack now, FYI
[10:19] <Laney> pitti: thanks, hopefully someone didn't fix it manually & can verify
[10:20] <pitti> Laney: I removed the symlink here and tested the upgrade in both cases
[10:42] <willcooke> Confirmation that there is a "do" on in the office on release day evening.
[10:42] <willcooke> popey, are you in the office on release day?  Perhaps we could arrange a meet up at a pub with community guys?  (There's probably already something planned?)
[10:42] <popey> I am
[10:42] <willcooke> woot
[10:42] <popey> There always was in the past a release party
[10:42] <popey> but interest wained
[10:43] <popey> and people wanted different things
[10:43] <willcooke> I say a pub and a few jars
[10:43] <popey> office people wanted a typical noisy london bar to unwind in, whereas community people actually wanted to chat to people
[10:43] <willcooke> let's arrange something
[10:43] <popey> willcooke: speak to msm and cvd
[10:44] <popey> cvd has a thing on that week which finishes on thurs, she talked to me yesterday about beer and pizza for her dept in the office
[10:44] <willcooke> just spoke to cvd, hence confirmation of an office event - but I'm thinking of some beers outside the office for an all inclusive thing
[10:44] <popey> I'd be up for us nominating a pu to be in
[10:44] <popey> +1
[10:44] <popey> *Pub
[10:45] <willcooke> popey, I'll start a thread on the UK mailing list
[10:45] <popey> nice one.
[10:45] <Laney> pick a nice real ale pub pleases
[10:46] <Laney> :-)
[10:46]  * willcooke googles
[10:46]  * Laney goes to get the tome
[10:46] <Laney> GBG 2015
[10:46] <willcooke> \o/
[10:46] <willcooke> There's a Brewdog place which is supposed to be good - but might be a bit hoppy for "brown beer" fans#
[10:50] <popey> +1 to fartybeer
[10:53] <Laney> sheaf or old king's head
[10:53] <willcooke> Laney, you're on the Ubuntu UK mailing list right?
[10:53] <Laney> in the vicinity of london bridge anyhow
[10:53] <Laney> ya
[10:54] <willcooke> oki, just sending an email to that list, if you'd like to pitch in there?
[10:55] <Laney> 'kay
[10:55] <willcooke> thx
[13:20] <desrt> good morning, desktopanoj
[13:20] <seb128> hey desrt
[13:20] <desrt> hihi
[13:21] <desrt> seb128: did you try testing that patch on the bug?
[13:21] <seb128> desrt, no, since teuf commented saying it doesn't work for him
[13:22]  * desrt has one negative feedback so far but suspects that maybe it was tested wrong
[13:22] <seb128> I can if you want though
[13:22] <desrt> let me ping teuf first and see what his exact case is
[13:22] <desrt> maybe there's something i missed
[13:22] <popey> is it still possible to uninstall systemd on vivid and have a working system?
[13:22] <popey> or have we passed the point of no return?
[13:22] <seb128> popey, yes, you can keep using upstart, that's what ubuntu touch is doing
[13:23] <popey> ok, thanks
[13:24] <popey> removing systemd complains...  policykit-1 : Depends: libpam-systemd but it is not going to be installed
[13:24] <seb128> didrocks or pitti might know about that
[13:24] <popey> I have a bug and the current suspect is systemd, wanted to remove it as a quick test to confirm that
[13:25]  * ogra_ isnt so sure about bein able to remove it on desktop ...
[13:25] <seb128> well, at least you can use a different init system
[13:25] <seb128> not sure about uninstalling either
[13:25] <ogra_> we draw a trick on touch to keep it out of the image ... removing it on desktop would remove ubuntu-standard at least
[13:26] <pitti> popey: no, you can boot with upstart a single time or permanently (upstart-sysv), that's going to be supported until 16.04 at least
[13:26] <ogra_> and has propbably dependency issues in packages the phone doesnt ship
[13:26] <pitti> popey: you can't remove systemd; you can remove systemd-sysv and replace it with upstart-sysv
[13:26] <pitti> popey: but we need logind and other bits from that package
[13:27] <popey> great, thanks
[13:50] <seb128> Laney, larsu, does https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/unity-settings-daemon/dont-scale-greeter/+merge/255512 looks fine to you?
[13:51] <larsu> seb128: there's XDG_SESSION_CLASS?
[13:51] <larsu> it's not set on my desktop — but I guess it is on the greeter?
[13:51] <seb128> larsu, I did start a greeter and string /proc/pidof greeter/environ
[13:51] <larsu> wait, two lines up, we don't scale on unity either?
[13:52] <seb128> larsu, if you find a better variable let me know
[13:52] <larsu> not sure
[13:52] <seb128> larsu, right, unity7 handle the scaling factor itself in unity
[13:52] <larsu> ah, right
[13:52] <seb128> we use that fallback for the installer
[13:52] <larsu> looks good to me if that env var exists
[13:52] <seb128> it does for me
[13:52] <seb128> I might ask you to test on your laptop once it's a silo ppa
[13:52] <larsu> ok, please let me know
[13:53] <seb128> thanks
[13:57] <desrt> seb128: testing appreciated
[13:57] <desrt> looks like teuf's setup was indeed a bit messed up
[13:57] <seb128> desrt, k
[13:58] <desrt> the patch may not be perfect yet, but it will probably work in most cases that we care about
[13:59] <desrt> in fact, i just reproduced his problem -- but it's oddly specific, and perhaps completely unrelated
[13:59] <desrt> oh.  you're in #gtk+.  i'll stop the play-by-play :p
[14:05] <Riddell> Noskcaj, Laney: am I ok to upload gnome-keyring 3.15.92 for a fix blocking logout?
[14:07] <Laney> Riddell: If you upload 3.16.0, yes. :)
[14:07] <seb128> Riddell, bonus point if you upload the new stable 3.16 or find somebody wanting to do that
[14:09] <Riddell> oh 3.15 is unstable?
[14:09] <seb128> yes
[14:09] <Laney> odd/even version scheme
[14:10] <Riddell> so how come it isn't uploaded already? don't you have an automated/scripted way to update them all?
[14:13] <seb128> well, it's semi automatic, but you want an human verification, especially after beta
[14:13] <seb128> you guys just get script throwing updates in the archive?
[14:14] <Riddell> alas not quite yet but we have it all buliding continuously and we have weekly isos from that to test http://kci.pangea.pub/
[14:15] <Riddell> but still needs to get that connected with the "make tars" step and the "package tars" step
[14:22] <seb128> cyphermox, hey, do you think you could maybe review https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/1248720?
[14:22] <cyphermox> ok
[14:23] <seb128> cyphermox, thanks :-)
[14:50] <cyphermox> seb128: is it a know issue that sometimes notify-osd won't disappear?
[14:50] <seb128> cyphermox, do you have your cursor over it?
[14:50] <cyphermox> no
[14:50] <ogra_> just get a second mouse and keep one over it :P
[14:51] <cyphermox> sounds like a less optimal plan than killall notify-osd ;)
[14:51]  * ogra_ is full of helpful tips today :D
[14:51] <seb128> cyphermox, not know then
[14:51] <cyphermox> ok
[14:51] <cyphermox> I'll report it with a video of the screen as soon as I get it again
[14:51] <cyphermox> it seems to happen often when I get pinged
[14:52] <seb128> cyphermox, are you sure you client is not buggy and keep refreshing the notification or something?
[14:52] <cyphermox> well, it's a possibility but it usually does work properly
[14:52] <seb128> cyphermox, check the dbus activity to make sure
[14:52] <cyphermox> cool, will do
[15:07] <seb128> larsu, can you try the debs from https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-015/+build/7308452 and see if your desktop is still scaled but the greeter not/if that resolve the flickering issue at login
[15:09] <larsu> seb128: on the phone, will try ion a bit
[15:09] <seb128> larsu, no hurry, thanks
[15:22] <willcooke> qengho, https://plus.google.com/+FrancoisBeaufort/posts/gymYoHEeQUN
[15:22] <willcooke> \o/
[15:22] <willcooke> (via didrocks, thanks)
[15:23] <qengho> Yep, we don't have to wait 12 weeks. Already backported to stable.
[15:23] <didrocks> nice!
[15:24] <willcooke> woo!  rock on
[15:24] <seb128> qengho, that means it's going to be in vivid?
[15:25] <qengho> Yes.
[15:25] <seb128> desrt, that patch fixes the apport issue
[15:25] <seb128> desrt, it's used instead of gedit
[15:26] <seb128> desrt, commented on the bug to say so
[15:30] <desrt> cool
[15:30] <desrt> am still looking into the teuf problem
[15:30] <desrt> (in fairness, this fixes his issue too -- but he has another issue that he accidentally uncovered)
[15:30] <desrt> btw: that patch has a leak in it, so don't distro-patch it or anything :)
[15:38] <seb128> yeah, I read that
[15:39] <seb128> Riddell, thanks for the gnome-keyring update :-)
[15:42] <Riddell> seb128: well we'll just see if the tests pass!
[16:10] <greyback> Trevinho: hey, my apps lens isn't working in unity7, does it have a log file I could look into? Or where could I start to learn why?
[16:10] <Trevinho> greyback: it generally happens when the lens crashes
[16:11] <Trevinho> greyback: killing unity-scope-home and loader generally fixes it...
[16:11] <Trevinho> as for the log....
[16:11] <greyback> Trevinho: /usr/bin/unity-scope-loader applications/applications.scope applications/scopes.scope commands.scope
[16:11] <greyback> /usr/bin/unity-scope-loader: error while loading shared libraries: libunity.so.9: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[16:11] <greyback> doesn't look right to me...
[16:11] <Trevinho> not much, as these are loaded by unity via dbus calls, but...
[16:12] <Trevinho> oh, right
[16:13] <greyback> Trevinho: should that work? I have libunity9 installed
[16:13] <Trevinho> greyback: make sure it's all installed and in right paths...
[16:13] <Trevinho> ldd /usr/bin/unity-scope-loader will fail, I guess
[16:14] <greyback> Trevinho: indeed, libunity.so.9 not found. but it in /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu
[16:15] <Trevinho> oh, other libs are picked from that path I guess...
[16:15] <Trevinho> so, mhmh, maybe it's a broken link?
[16:16] <greyback> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root     17 Aug  8  2014 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libunity.so -> libunity.so.9.0.2
[16:16] <greyback> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root     17 Oct 29 20:49 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libunity.so.9 -> libunity.so.9.0.2
[16:16] <greyback> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 670296 Aug  8  2014 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libunity.so.9.0.2
[16:16] <greyback> nothing looks wrong, /me scratches head
[16:16] <seb128> try to ldd on the binary?
[16:17] <greyback> I just reinstalled libunity9, now it works
[16:17] <Trevinho> the classic way :D
[16:18] <greyback> only change I see is date: 17 Oct 29 20:49    ->  Aug  8  2014
[16:18] <Trevinho> md5sum also, I guess...
[16:19] <greyback> too late
[16:19]  * greyback hopes his ssd is ok
[16:23] <Riddell> seb128: ok it passed tests, now you can thank me :)
[16:25] <seb128> Riddell, thanks! :-)
[16:25] <larsu> seb128: I can't install that ("installing unity-settings-daemon would break unity")
[16:25] <larsu>  deconfiguration is not permitted (--auto-deconfigure might help)
[16:25] <seb128> larsu, ?!
[16:25] <seb128> larsu, can you pastebin the full log?
[16:26] <larsu> seb128: hm, I made a typo passing auto-deconfigure before. Seems to have worked now
[16:27] <seb128> larsu, why did you need to use that option at all?!
[16:27] <larsu> I don't know :)
[16:27] <seb128> do you still have the log?
[16:28] <larsu> just rebooted
[16:28] <larsu> but this was the only message
[16:28] <seb128> k, weird
[16:28] <larsu> when installing unity-settings-daemon woth dpkg -i
[16:28] <seb128> maybe your previous dist-upgrade had issues or something
[16:28] <larsu> ok. set scale factor in displays or somewhere else?
[16:28] <seb128> no
[16:28] <seb128> things should just work normally
[16:28] <larsu> no?
[16:28] <seb128> e.g boot should give you a non-scaled greeter
[16:28] <larsu> I'm not running scaled right now
[16:29] <seb128> you shouldn't have flickering on login
[16:29] <seb128> then desktop should be hidpi scaled
[16:29] <larsu> but I need to set that
[16:29] <larsu> because I usually don't
[16:29] <seb128> I though your laptop was hidpi?
[16:29] <larsu> I run it natively :)
[16:29] <seb128> well, I was more interested if it fixes your greeter/login flicker issue
[16:29] <seb128> that was scaled before that update right?
[16:29] <larsu> yes, greeter is native and no flickering
[16:29] <seb128> k
[16:30] <seb128> maybe try a guest session and see if that's scaled?
[16:30] <seb128> but that scaling factor is set by unity so it should work
[16:30] <larsu> guest session is not scaled
[16:31] <larsu> but setting scale factor for my session works
[16:31] <seb128> hum :-/
[16:31] <seb128> k, I guess it's another issue/not new
[16:31] <seb128> larsu, thanks
[16:31] <larsu> might be just under the treshold at 2880?
[16:31] <seb128> right
[16:32] <larsu> anyway seems to work. thanks seb128!
[16:32] <seb128> larsu, thanks for testing!
[16:42]  * willcooke -> EODish.  Will probably be back later
[16:43] <seb128> willcooke, have fun!
[18:36] <popey> cyphermox: have you got a moment to help me debug something that I think is nm related?
[18:42] <davmor2> cyphermox: it's a trap run you fool ;)
[18:43] <cyphermox> I'm already debugging NM, what's one more data point :)
[18:48] <popey> cyphermox: bug 1441053
[18:49] <popey> basically my network drops for ~20-30s every minute while I have wired and wifi connected. Disconnect wifi, and use wired only, it's fine.
[18:49] <sarnold> popey: reminds me of 1436330
[18:49] <popey> ooh
[18:49] <popey> it could be that
[18:50] <popey> its driving me potty
[18:51] <davmor2> cyphermox: yeah I think the nm in vivid has some issues, the kind that would get a man put in a padded cell with a jacket that fastens at the back ;)
[18:56] <popey> ooh, there's a patch there
[18:59] <popey> <IP_ADDRESS>     *               <IP_ADDRESS>   U     0      0        0 eth0
[18:59] <popey> <IP_ADDRESS>     *               <IP_ADDRESS>   U     0      0        0 wlan0
[18:59] <popey> looks plausible. same metric for both interfaces
[19:07] <cyphermox> that one is on my list too, but is very not easy to fix
[20:06] <Laney> cyphermox: my pet bug is bug #1422096 if that's not on your list (or is maybe a dupe) :-)
[20:06] <Laney> I only know how to restart n-m to fix it which is scary because about 10% of the time that locks up my machine
[20:06] <Laney> russian roulette
[20:06] <Laney> :)
[20:06]  * cyphermox weeps
[20:07] <cyphermox> heh, the fact that it sees there is a lxc bridge and whatnot shouldn't be affecting attempts to connect to wifi
[20:09] <Laney> could file it upstream and/or try a snapshot if you want
[20:12] <cyphermox> yeah maybe file it upstream
[20:12] <cyphermox> I also see something suspicious here, but I'm busy with other bugs
[20:12] <Laney> also I'm not on 10.1 yet
[20:13] <Laney> & ubuntu2 has a fix to hide these devices
[20:13] <Laney> lemme dist-upgrade and see what happens
[20:13] <Laney> although that's applet so I don't know how much will ...
[20:17] <Laney> could this wifi BE any slower? </chandler bing>


[01:54] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[06:20] <ducasse> good morning
[06:48] <marcoagpinto> Hello!
[07:07] <daftykins> good morn
[12:01] <Deano59> lotuspsychje: why am I a troll to you? I haven't done anything wrong. I even ignored blueskaj so I don't see his off-topic crap.
[12:02] <lotuspsychje> Deano59: trolls keep trolling ot stuff in main just like you
[12:02] <lotuspsychje> you know well enough discussions dont fit there
[12:02] <Deano59> you suggested snaps, I gave my opinion. that's not trolling.
[12:02] <lotuspsychje> opinions dont fit in the support channel
[12:03] <Deano59> neither does "howdy folks" but you allow that...
[12:03]  * Deano59 shrugs
[12:03] <lotuspsychje> saying hi isnt offtopic nor forbidden
[12:03] <TJ-> of course opinions fit! That's all we do!
[12:03] <Deano59> k
[12:03] <Deano59> lotuspsychje: won't happen again. :)
[12:04] <TJ-> users generally expect/think that support for snaps is part of the Ubuntu community offer, and are surprised to learn it isn't
[12:04] <TJ-> You'll not stop me mentioning it
[12:04] <Deano59> TJ-: don't even bother. not worth the hassle. you get labelled as a "troll"
[12:05] <TJ-> Deano59: I've been working on Ubuntu as a developer and leading community support person since 2005. I will say it
[12:05] <lotuspsychje> yeah it should have been divided
[12:06] <Deano59> I guess I'll use this channel more then and #ubuntu for support. :) lotuspsychje is that fine with you?
[12:06] <lotuspsychje> how about you go find out the rules in #ubuntu-ops next time Deano59
[12:07] <Deano59> what?
[12:07] <TJ-> The /topic in #ubuntu should clearly mention no support for snaps
[12:08] <Deano59> don't be silly, that won't happen.
[12:08] <TJ-> right, so until it does, I will mention it
[12:09] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: some snaps are canonical feeded, so its a mix right
[12:09] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: but they aren't community supported
[12:09] <lotuspsychje> if they have a launchpad community can also help?
[12:10] <Deano59> lotuspsychje: can I PM you?
[12:10] <lotuspsychje> no way Deano59
[12:10] <Deano59> k... I'll ask here if I can't PM. what's your problem?
[12:10] <lotuspsychje> i dont have a problem why?
[12:11] <Deano59> you keep judging me, and I'm sick of it.
[12:11] <TJ-> users need to be aware of the pitfalls of installing snaps and make an informed decision on whether or not to use them BEFORE they find themselves needing support
[12:11] <lotuspsychje> Deano59: im not judging you, i pointed you to not going offtopic in #ubuntu thats all
[12:11] <TJ-> otherwise it has the appearance of bait-and-switch
[12:12] <lotuspsychje> i agree to that TJ-
[12:12] <Deano59> "<lotuspsychje> dont listen to him inbe4 he's the troll of the year around here"
[12:12] <lotuspsychje> Deano59: thats my opinion, not a judgement
[12:12] <TJ-> that was out of order, and against the code of conduct
[12:12] <Deano59> thanks TJ- :)
[12:13] <lotuspsychje> that was preventing bad advice to new joined users
[12:13] <TJ-> disagree; it is good advice
[12:13] <TJ-> And I shall continue to give it
[12:13] <Deano59> again, thanks TJ- :)
 snaps are bad. don't use them.
[12:14] <Deano59> yes, they are. so?
[12:14] <lotuspsychje> thats really not the thing to say to users
[12:14] <TJ-> making personal comments is not acceptable; you can disagree with the advice all you want and state WHY
[12:14] <lotuspsychje> snaps are bad, is an opinion common
[12:15] <TJ-> snaps are bad; they eoncourage laziness in developers and publishers
[12:15] <Deano59> ^ :D
[12:15] <lotuspsychje> we cant generalize that TJ-
[12:15] <TJ-> if using them, make an informed decision
[12:15] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: yes, we can, based on the evidence since they were launched
[12:15] <Deano59> snaps are terrible, worst thing to happen to ubuntu. and I <3 ubuntu.
[12:16] <lotuspsychje> as long as ubuntu supports it, its not a thing to say in the support channel
[12:16] <Deano59> neither is name-calling but you done it.
[12:16] <lotuspsychje> we can discuss it here
[12:16] <TJ-> opaque; no changelogs for updates, no tracking of snaps affected by CVEs by the security team or others
[12:17] <lotuspsychje> Deano59: thats because you been trolling day after day in the support channel, its the truth, not namecalling
[12:17] <TJ-> and many are published in unconfined (classic) mode not locked-down yet many people believe snap = confined
[12:18] <Deano59> ? how many times, I'm not a troll. just because I THINK greeting a support channel and provoking users into starting a conversation with "howdy" is off-topic isn't trolling. I was asked to stop so I put blueskaj on ignore. sorry but you're wrong lotuspsychje.
[12:19] <Deano59> maybe YOU should read the code of conduct.
[12:19] <TJ-> the argument that snaps package things that need frequent updates quicker than the distor release cadence just means the code is so buggy the developers don't think they can create secure applications and would rather just throw code out and let the users do the testing
[12:19] <lotuspsychje> Deano59: why dont you put everyone on ignore that says hi then?
[12:19] <lotuspsychje> Deano59: inbe4 said hello, why didnt you pick on him too?
[12:19] <TJ-> Those are scripted Hi's too, across all channels. Most organised channels frown on such things
[12:19] <Deano59> hi, then a question is fine. just howdy and going quiet waiting for a reply is off-topic. SIMPLE. I was asked to stop so I did/
[12:20] <TJ-> but we've indulged Blueskaj on that for years
[12:20] <Deano59> TJ-: thanks! can't get through to some people. I was asked to stop, so I did and ignored him.
[12:21] <lotuspsychje> i said good morning a lot of times in ubuntu, nobody told me to stop that ever
[12:21] <Deano59> saying hi, i have xyz problem is fine. but just "howdy folks" is trying to start a conversation and THUS off-topic.
[12:21] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: but you typed it - not a script on every channel joined simultaneously
[12:21] <Deano59> exactly.
[12:22] <lotuspsychje> blueskaj also types it
[12:22] <Deano59> saying hi, i have xyz problem is fine. but just "howdy folks" is trying to start a conversation and THUS off-topic.
[12:22] <TJ-> Saying anything like that on IRC implies trying to ellicit a response, or awareness you're there, which really isn't necessary most of the time
[12:22] <Deano59> maybe YOU should read the CoC and respect others lotuspsychje instead of throwing "omg you're a troll!11!!!"
[12:23] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: if he does, he's unusually fast; it appears in every channel he's in simultanously
[12:23] <Deano59> TJ-: couldn't have said it better myself. :)
[12:24] <lotuspsychje> i respect others Deano59, i just pointed you to going offtopic in main and bad advice
[12:24] <Deano59> then say that. don't throw out the "he's a troll, ignore him" to new users.
[12:24] <TJ-> I should run a script analyse the standard devation of the timestamps in each channel, from my last 10 years logs
[12:24] <lotuspsychje> and as you terrorizing the support channel so many times lately, you are a troll
[12:24] <Deano59> I'm NOT a troll.
[12:24] <lotuspsychje> now ill move on
[12:25] <Deano59> and now I'll ignore you. :)
[12:25] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: you've done it again, remember the CoC applies here
[12:25] <Deano59> TJ-: thanks TJ- :)
[12:25] <TJ-> "This is a channel for high quality on-topic non-support discussions" ^^^ in the /topic
[12:26] <lotuspsychje> we are discussing right
[12:26] <Deano59> also in the /topic "| We follow the CoC at all times here |"
[12:26] <TJ-> that doesn't include calling names
[12:26] <Deano59> ^ :D
[12:26] <Deano59> it's okay, I put him on ignore.
[12:26] <lotuspsychje> in my opinion its not namecaling but a fact
[12:27]  * Deano59 goes back to lurking... :D
[12:27] <TJ-> "Be respectful
[12:27] <TJ-> Disagreement is no excuse for poor manners. We work together to resolve conflict, assume good intentions and do our best to act in an empathic fashion. We don’t allow frustration to turn into a personal attack. "
[12:29] <lotuspsychje> this isnt personal for me TJ-
[12:30] <TJ-> it is for Deano59 !
[12:30] <TJ-> Again from the CoC "A community where people feel uncomfortable or threatened is not a productive one."
[12:33] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: back to the snap topic, i would have loved to see the snaps jailed into a snap-store optional installed and not as default
[12:34] <lotuspsychje> with ubuntu on apt packages as base only by default
[12:34] <lotuspsychje> but that doesnt mean 'all' snaps are bad
[12:35] <Deano59> thanks TJ- :)
[12:35] <lotuspsychje> some are pretty good
[12:35] <TJ-> Yes; from my observations the aim of snaps was/is for Canonical to capture developer mindshare, despite the OS rather than to improve it
[12:36] <TJ-> it doesn't encourage those developers to help develop the Ubuntu project or ecosystem, it gives them a way to avoid it
[12:37] <TJ-> And it's pretty obvious that snapcraft.io is aiming to emulate Google/Apple 'app' stores and at some point monetise it (must cost a lot for Canoniccal to vet applications as they claim they do)
[12:38] <TJ-> Next thing is, there's ads being injected into snaps in some way
[12:40] <TJ-> I've watched how, technically, the snap API is getting bigger as more diverse applications look for ways to interact with the rest of the OS, which is of course enlarging the attack surface