[06:13] <fabbione> morning
[06:33] <fabbione> infinity: ping?
[06:34] <fabbione> lamont: ping?
[07:06] <lamont> fabbione: ack
[07:06] <fabbione> lamont: yo..
[07:06] <lamont> gcc-4.0 -8ubuntu3 is at 9.5 hours.  sigh
[07:06] <fabbione> lamont: i was asking infinity as well.. do you remember the commands that a buildd needs to have in sudo privileges without passwd?
[07:07] <fabbione> right now we figured apt-get and dpkg
[07:07] <lamont> I know it passes lots of cruft in - generally the machines I've seen just gave buildd all commands, prolly out of lazyiness
[07:07] <lamont> it's going to need chroot as well, I expect
[07:08] <fabbione> and if any of you 2 remembers how to get stats out of a single buildd?
[07:08] <fabbione> lamont: hm right..
[07:08] <fabbione> like i have N buildds.. but i want to know exactly how much work one buildd is doing
[07:09] <lamont> more ~buildd/stats/Summary
[07:09] <fabbione> there is no Summary :)
[07:10] <lamont> dunno why I have one then
[07:10] <fabbione> some of your scripts generate it?
[07:11] <fabbione> this is the one from db.d.o
[07:11] <lamont> yep
[07:11] <fabbione> sparcbuildd@test7:~/stats$ ls
[07:11] <fabbione> build-time  builds  taken
[07:12] <fabbione> is it a config option?
[07:12] <lamont> buildd-watcher creates summary
[07:12] <fabbione> hmm i don't think i am running it.. should i?
[07:12] <lamont> it'll give you a summary :-)
[07:13] <lamont> and keep buildd running..
[07:13] <lamont> 20,50 * * * *    nice -10 /usr/bin/buildd-watcher
[07:13] <lamont> is what debian has
[07:13] <fabbione> buildd keeps running anyway :)
[07:14] <fabbione> lamont: last question :)
[07:14] <fabbione> the option to fork buildd if more than N packages needs-build
[07:14] <fabbione> did you ever use it?
[07:14] <fabbione> does it actually work?
[07:14] <fabbione> (i know infinity i did ask you already ;))
[07:14] <lamont> haven't used it
[07:14] <fabbione> ok
[07:14] <lamont> but I expect that works
[07:15] <lamont> since some of the slower debian architectures have been using it at least in the past
[07:16] <fabbione> i wonder who i could ask for sure...
[07:16] <lamont> any more 'one last question's?
[07:16] <fabbione> nope :)
[07:16] <lamont> ok.  gonna sleep, I think.
[07:16] <infinity> Are you talking about the secondary threshold?
[07:16] <fabbione> infinity: yes
[07:16] <lamont> bah - /me looks at the buildd source for a minute
[07:17] <fabbione> lamont: don't worry..
[07:17] <fabbione> have a good night :)
[07:17] <infinity> Revisiting that recently, I'm not sure it's an option to fork at all.
[07:17] <fabbione> please it's really nothing urgent
[07:17] <fabbione> Build daemon statistics from 19700101-0100 to 20050617-0715 (12951.22 days):
[07:17] <fabbione> haah
[07:17] <infinity> But rather to declare the this particular buildd is a "secondary", and should only --take and build packages if needs-build is > foo
[07:17] <fabbione> the first run is sick :)
[07:17] <lamont>                 logger( "$dist: total $total packages to build.\n" ) if $total;
[07:17] <lamont>                 if ($total && $conf::secondary_daemon_threshold &&
[07:17] <lamont>                         $total < $conf::secondary_daemon_threshold) {
[07:17] <lamont>                         logger( "Not enough packages to build -- ".
[07:17] <lamont>                                         "secondary daemon not starting\n" );
[07:17] <lamont>                         next;
[07:17] <lamont>                 }
[07:17] <lamont> looks right to me
[07:17] <lamont> infinity: exactly
[07:18] <infinity> See? :)
[07:18] <infinity> No forking.
[07:18] <lamont> so the buildd just idles along doing nothing until such time as the rest have fallen behind.  then it kicks in and actually does something for a bit
[07:18] <fabbione> good night lamont
[07:19] <lamont> infinity: forking wouldn't help, since it's on the same machine... /me just figured that fabbione was using words in a slightly european manner. :)
[07:19] <fabbione> ehhe
[07:22] <lamont> starting with a fresh kernel build for it.
[07:22] <lamont> esp if fabbione has finished and uploaded -1.2
[07:22] <fabbione> lamont: i am almost done :)
[07:23] <fabbione> i miss usb-modules, pcmcia* and nic*
[07:23] <fabbione> the latter is a real pain :(
[07:25] <infinity> lamont : No, forking obviously wouldn't work, hence the confusion. :)
[07:25] <infinity> (Well, forking could work if you made dead sure that you were always building for two different dists in parallel, and never two packages on the same dist)
[07:26] <infinity> Could be handy to get RIGHT NOW, DAMNIT security builds without runinng a second buildd.
[07:30] <fabbione> infinity: it can't be that hard to implement
[07:30] <fabbione> but i am hounestly far away motivated to do so
[07:31] <fabbione> or given a good design
[07:31] <fabbione> get sbuild to understand the concept of target chroot
[07:32] <fabbione> and get buildd to for N instances of sbuild
[07:32] <fabbione> at that point the concept of suite can be easily implemented in buildd to run sbuild N times
[07:33] <fabbione> can't be that hard
[07:33] <infinity> I think all you really need here is target locking.
[07:34] <fabbione> with target locking you can run only one instance of sbuild for breezy for ex
[07:34] <fabbione> and one for hoary-security
[07:34] <infinity> Also handy if a machine goes down in the middle of a build.  No more @reboot touch ~buildd/NO-DAEMON-PLEASE, but instead you get a buildd that comes up building for all the non-locked chroots, and you get the clean the locked on.
[07:34] <fabbione> that's because sbuildd is hardcoded for the target chroot
[07:34] <infinity> Why would I want more than one for breezy?...
[07:35] <infinity> Oh, I guess if you want to take advantage of multiple CPUs and fast disk.
[07:35] <fabbione> exactly
[07:35] <infinity> But that's a use case I don't care about as much as timely security updates.
[07:35] <daniels> and timely xorg updates
[07:35] <fabbione> so the first step would be to let sbuild understand in what chroot it should build
[07:35] <fabbione> no option = use the default
[07:36] <fabbione> otherwise switch to the specified chroot
[07:36] <infinity> Just have it pick a random unlocked chroot at build-target/chroot-target[0-9]
[07:36] <fabbione> buildd at that point can really for N instances of sbuild
[07:36] <infinity> Or whatever.
[07:36] <infinity> (And don't spawn new instances if all available chroots are locked)
[07:37] <fabbione> and buildd will need to understand the concept of forking and forking per release/security or whatever
[07:37] <fabbione> exactly
[07:37] <infinity> No config file changes to add new chroots that way.  And when you fix a locked chroot, it magically comes back online.
[07:37] <fabbione> it doesn't sound impossible.. just boring to death to do it :)
[07:37] <infinity> It sounds like something I'd happily do... If I was allowed to.

[09:58] <fabbione> elmo: did you already setup<EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[09:59] <elmo> fabbione: no
[10:00] <fabbione> elmo: ok thanks :)
[11:48] <\sh> make[4] : *** [Sequence.o]  Segmentation fault
[11:49] <\sh> ppc..if anybody is interessted to check: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/o/openscenegraph/0.9.8-4ubuntu2/openscenegraph_0.9.8-4ubuntu2_20050617-0944-powerpc-failed.gz
[11:49] <fabbione> \sh: ppc is known to send spurios segfaults
[11:49] <fabbione> it's probably enough to kick the package back
[11:49] <fabbione> that problem will go away as soon as we can install ppc64 kernels on the buildd
[11:50] <\sh> so...version+1 and do it again
[11:50] <fabbione> no
[11:50] <fabbione> you wait for lamont/infinity/elmo to kick it back
[11:50] <\sh> oh ok
[11:50] <fabbione> uploading to trigger a rebuild is BAD
[11:50] <fabbione> and pointless
[12:29] <infinity> And BAD.
[12:29] <infinity> Also, it's not good.
[03:12] <lamont> fabbione: ppc is known to send spurious SIGILL, not SEGV
[03:15] <jbailey> HPPA on the other hand...
[03:18] <fabbione> lamont: well whatever :)
[03:18] <fabbione> lamont: ppc64 kernels fix that
[03:18] <fabbione> lamont: i did try to be extremely careful changing the d-i stuff on hppa
[03:18] <fabbione> lamont: but i can't be 100% sure it's ok
[03:18] <fabbione> of all the changes i missed one on ppc.. (the HACK ALERT )
[03:19] <lamont> so I should do another test build, eh?
[03:19] <fabbione> if it fails on hppa please send me the last 30 lines of the log
[03:19] <fabbione> lamont: i already uploaded
[03:19] <fabbione> mdz wants .12 in main asap
[03:20] <lamont> buildd   18155  0.0  0.2  37800 17068 ?        SN   02:15   0:00 /build/buildd/gcc-4.0-4.0.0/build/hppa-linux/libjava/testsuite/SyncTest.exe
[03:20] <lamont> buildd   18156  0.0  0.2  37800 17068 ?        SN   02:15   0:00 /build/buildd/gcc-4.0-4.0.0/build/hppa-linux/libjava/testsuite/SyncTest.exe
[03:20] <lamont> buildd   18157 20.4  0.2  37800 17068 ?        RN   02:15  62:11 /build/buildd/gcc-4.0-4.0.0/build/hppa-linux/libjava/testsuite/SyncTest.exe
[03:20] <lamont> buildd   18158 20.4  0.2  37800 17068 ?        RN   02:15  62:16 /build/buildd/gcc-4.0-4.0.0/build/hppa-linux/libjava/testsuite/SyncTest.exe
[03:20] <lamont> buildd   18159 20.4  0.2  37800 17068 ?        RN   02:15  62:19 /build/buildd/gcc-4.0-4.0.0/build/hppa-linux/libjava/testsuite/SyncTest.exe
[03:20] <lamont> buildd   18160 20.4  0.2  37800 17068 ?        RN   02:15  62:06 /build/buildd/gcc-4.0-4.0.0/build/hppa-linux/libjava/testsuite/SyncTest.exe
[03:20] <lamont> buildd   18161  0.0  0.0   2224   564 ?        SN   02:15   0:00  \_ c++filt -s java
[03:23] <lamont> otoh, your ada-test-b0rkage-killer seems to work fine
[03:29] <doko> hmm, but somebody reported something with the acats-killer ...
[04:41] <lamont> wow.  after killing all those doko-be-damned SyncTest.exe's, gcc-4.0 may actually finish building (it's installing now)
[04:54] <lamont> Subject: Log for successful build of gcc-4.0_4.0.0-8ubuntu3 (dist=breezy)
[04:55] <lamont> Build needed 19:17:02, 2076384k disk space
[04:55] <lamont> admittedly, something around 5 hours of that was waiting for some nice admin to killall -9 SyncTest.exe
[04:59] <lamont> I'm not sure if it's worse that I have a 24-port managed switch under my desk, or that there are 8 ports currently lit in it.
[06:23] <lamont> wow. binutils wants 7 min on i386, 21 on ia64, and 94 on hppa.  WTH?
[06:23] <lamont> hrm. probably binutils-hppa64
[06:26] <\sh> lamont: libtool: link: `../lib/libh5tools.la' is not a valid libtool archive <- hdf5 only on ppc all other archs ok
[06:27] <doko> lamont: tausq did just email me:
[06:27] <doko> fyi gcc-4.0 is significantly broken for hppa until #22051
[06:27] <doko> (gcc bugzilla) is fixed....
[06:27] <lamont> as in I should turn off the autobuilder until it is?
[06:31] <doko> your decision, you're the port maintainer :)
[06:31] <doko> forwarding the mail ...
[06:38] <lamont> doko: we already switched to 4.0 for breezy, though.....  Time to go find out what "significantly broken" means
[06:42] <doko> lamont: we did? ;) yes, sure, we have to.
[09:33] <lamont> jbailey: you around?
[09:36] <jbailey> lamont: Yup
[09:36] <lamont> why did we disable glibc test suite for hppa (besides "because lamont said to")
[09:36] <lamont> (see #parisc)
[10:27] <lamont> doko: still awake by chance?
[10:27] <doko> it's 10:30pm
[10:27] <jbailey> lamont: We're Canonical employees, we're not permitted sleep.
[10:28] <lamont> is our gcc-4.0 built using gcc-4.0?
[10:28] <doko> no
[10:28] <doko> 3.3
[10:29] <doko> you're talking on #paris?
[10:29] <lamont> yes
[10:29] <lamont> uh....
[10:30] <lamont> gcc-4.0 does not Build-Depend: gcc-3.3
[10:30] <doko> gnat-3.3
[10:30] <lamont> no, I meant gCC-4.0
[10:31] <lamont> 22051, that is
[10:31] <doko> gcc-4.0 b-d on gnat-3.3. gnat-3.3 depends on gcc-3.3
[10:31] <lamont> ah, ok
[10:31] <lamont> and how does the build invoke gcc to build things?  the only place that the string 'gcc-3.3' appears in the log file is in a Conflicts...
[10:32] <doko> gnatgcc
[10:32] <lamont> how, um, bizare
[10:32] <lamont> so we know that no gcc-4.0 compiler is used in the building of gcc-4.0, right?
[10:33] <lamont> er, that is: so we know that no -4.0 compiler is used in the building of gcc-4.0, right?
[10:35] <doko> correct. unless you disable ada
[10:35] <lamont> which hppa doesn't?
[10:35] <doko> which server was #parisc on
[10:35] <doko> no
[10:36] <doko> but I should make it more robust and use gcc-3.3 explicitely.
[10:37] <doko> or 3.4 ...
[10:37] <doko> so, what did you find out?
[10:44] <jbailey> doko: #parisc is on oftc
[10:44] <jbailey> (god, I almost said efnet for a sec...)


[02:13] <hornbeck> it will go down tomorrow
[02:13] <hornbeck> sorry, no time to take down the server tonight
[02:13] <hornbeck> I will post to the list about the time.
[07:35] <plovs> good morning!
[07:44] <froud> African greetings
[07:44] <plovs> froud: morning
[07:48] <froud> plovs, morning
[07:50] <plovs> froud: you are working ont the userguide?
[07:50] <froud> was yes why?
[07:50] <froud> dont tell me theres another copy in another repos somewhere :-)
[07:51] <plovs> nono, all's ok, what part, i would like to start on software, just so i don't step on your toes
[07:52] <froud> I am  in the about section
[07:52] <plovs> ok
[07:52] <froud> just fixing a few markup problems with faq for you
[07:53] <plovs> thanks
[07:54] <froud> did you see validate.sh
[07:54] <froud> just for you plovs
[07:54] <froud> ;-)
[07:55] <froud> I cant seem to get rid of that annoying IDREF ERROR
[07:55] <froud> faqguide/faq2.xml:15: element link: validity error : IDREF attribute linkend references an unknown ID "sect-general"
[07:56] <froud> Guess I should ask on docbook-aps
[07:56] <froud> apps
[07:58] <plovs> yeah, I saw it, *very* nice, over time we'll have a nice frame-work for apps. Scripts, makefiles, libraries of common names, very nice
[07:59] <plovs> the only thing we still need is making life easier for translators, but I have no idea how that would work
[08:00] <froud> plovs, they use po files.... Translators are hooked on po files
[08:02] <plovs> :-) yeah, that I know, but these docs need to be translated in the xml files i suppose or in copies of them, I don't know how gnome or yelp chooses what language to display.
[08:04] <froud> the translators create new xml files that contain the language of choice
[08:06] <plovs> what about all the menu entries we made yesterday, is it possible in docbook to have one file with different languages? nvu.xml with both zulu and english and spanish?
[08:07] <froud> yes adding @ lang="zu"
[08:07] <froud> but yelp does not know how to handle this
[08:08] <froud> but we will have a new dir for each lang
[08:10] <plovs> ok, well we can figure this out later, but it would be nice to get stuff translated, and then a package made
[09:00] <plovs> yelp has quite a lot of docs already, is it possible to somehow make al thos docs work together?
[09:57] <Kinnison> Morning all
[10:05] <plovs> morning Kinnison
[10:48] <froud> plovs, I just posted a patch to validate.sh that fixes the problem with the IDREF errors we get when validating the faq. However, we still have one link to an id that indeed does not exist in the faq. "sect-disabled-history" do you know where this was suppoed to link to?
[10:50] <froud> it seems add --noent to the command does the trick of expanding all the external entities
[10:52] <plovs> froud: let me see ...
[10:54] <plovs> froud: that should be sect-disable-history , not diabled
[10:54] <plovs> froud: that should be sect-disable-history , not disabled
[10:56] <froud> ok do you want to patch it ooor shall I
[10:56] <plovs> well, if you know where the typo is, then maybe you
[10:57] <plovs> i would have to search or it
[10:57] <froud> plovs, are you using oxygen?
[10:57] <froud> :-)
[10:57] <froud> you can search across files
[10:57] <froud> but I will do it
[10:58] <plovs> i'm using ssh atm, so no graphical apps
[10:59] <froud> ok its done i will do svn commit
[10:59] <froud> that means everything in faq is now valid
[11:00] <froud> the validate.sh now includes --noent
[11:00] <plovs> cool
[11:00] <plovs> i added a folder called figure to the userguide for pics etc
[11:01] <froud> plovs, I may change these links to xref's
[11:01] <froud> no we want figures in one place
[11:01] <froud> in images/
[11:02] <froud> all my custom layer looks in there for images
[11:02] <froud> across all the documents
[11:03] <plovs> ok, if you change it then i'll use your method after it
[11:03] <froud> Ok I will move the files into images/
[11:04] <plovs> can you chage the link as well in userguide/software/chap-updates?
[11:04] <froud> images can be reused across docs
[11:04] <froud> yes will do
[11:05] <plovs> thanks
[11:05] <plovs> then i'll svn up it
[11:05] <froud> Take a look at  https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AboutTheUbuntuCoreDocumentationProject for explanation of directory structure
[11:08] <plovs> nice write-up
[11:10] <plovs> is it possible to refer from the userguide to the faqguide or visa-versa?
[11:10] <plovs> what path would i use?
[11:11] <froud> Yes, but I need to setup an olinks database
[11:11] <froud> the problem with that is that Yelp does not know what to do with it
[11:11] <froud> like allot of things ATM
[11:15] <froud> plovs, ok your images have moved and chap-updates is fixed
[11:15] <plovs> ok i svn up
[11:16] <froud> plovs, did you do the screen capts
[11:16] <plovs> no they are from the synaptic documentation
[11:17] <plovs> i want hoary screenshots, but i don't have hoary yet
[11:17] <plovs> brb
[11:17] <froud> what does brb mean?
[11:17] <froud> excuse my ignorance
[11:18] <froud> OK, we need to make a note of the theme and color etc in which we will all do screen capts
[11:18] <froud> otherwise we will an inconsistant look throughout the documents
[11:21] <plovs> be right back
[11:21] <plovs> i suppose we need just stock colors and theme
[11:23] <froud> yes, something everyone has
[11:23] <froud> yet looks good
[11:24] <froud> remember we need to keep it across all Versions
[11:24] <plovs> lookig good and the stock theme are mutually exclusive imho
[11:24] <froud> so it must remain for Hoary and GrumpyGroundhog
[11:29] <plovs> my picturepath is broken??? it is missing /trunk/
[11:29] <froud> problem is it is more complex than just the theme. In order to get good screen capts some basic rules need to be followed
[11:29] <froud> HuH
[11:30] <froud> figures is now removed
[11:32] <froud> However, it is a good rule of thumb to keep screen capts to a minimum
[11:32] <froud> only use them when strictly necessary
[11:34] <froud> plovs, I expect most people will use The GIMP right?
[11:35] <froud> ok gotta go out, be back later
[11:38] <froud> plovs, while I am away can you check what's with &gnome-app-install; seems you forgot to create the entity
[11:56] <plovs> froud: ok
[12:21] <froud> back
[12:26] <abelli> ciao
[12:32] <froud> plovs, what's with &gnome-app-install; in user guide
[12:32] <plovs> i just need to sync, but before i sync i want to make sure it works, i still can't see my images
[12:33] <plovs> i moved my whole tree to old and checked out the svn repo, now the images no longer work
[12:34] <froud> ok let me see
[12:34] <froud> Hmm ok I see. My fault I will fix it
[12:35] <plovs> froud: did you ever work with scrollkeeper?
[12:36] <froud> No
[12:36] <froud> but that's to register the docs, no?
[12:37] <plovs> yes, i was wondering if with scrollkeeper you can link docs together
[12:38] <froud> yes you can as I know
[12:38] <froud> plovs, do svn up
[12:38] <froud> images are fixed
[12:39] <plovs> ok, added missing menu-entry
[12:39] <froud> ok thanks
[12:55] <ChrisH> Thanks. :)
[12:55] <ChrisH> What a day-saver....
[12:55] <froud> why
[12:56] <ChrisH> I've been waiting for it for 1.5 years. That's really great.
[12:56] <froud> He heh, very cool. I am always happy when good things happen to good people
[12:57] <froud> Well you deserve it
[12:57] <froud> does that mean you will have more time for ubuntu-docs (teasing)
[01:00] <ChrisH> It means that I need to have to install Sid on another partition as my packages don't really work in a chroot. :)
[01:01] <ChrisH> But I'll surely get further with the sysadmin part of the user's guide.
[01:01] <froud> Yes
[01:01] <froud> actually I have a proposal
[01:01] <froud> User Guide and Admin Guide two books
[01:02] <ChrisH> ARGH!
[01:02] <ChrisH> froud: Your jokes will one day be killing me. :)
[01:03] <ChrisH> I think I will just write my documentation in no format and anyone is free to make it whatever document structure we are currently using.
[01:05] <ChrisH> The only way for me to get some content into the document was switch off the IRC client, ignore the mailing list and just write. There is so much traffic lately in the doc team that I can hardly follow it and at the same time write.
[01:06] <froud> patience, it takes practice. you think you have your hands full. I am working on several OSS projects and my commercial stuff :-)
[01:10] <plovs> ChrisH: congrats!
[01:10] <ChrisH> IMHO things need to settle a little. Too many changes recently.
[01:10] <ChrisH> plovs: Thanks. :)
[01:11] <froud> ChrisH, but so much has been done
[01:11] <plovs> I think we need to finish what we started and then when stuff getsto big cut it in two parts
[01:12] <froud> plovs, I dont think that is what ChrisH is talking about
[01:12] <froud> plovs, since I joined UDP  I have been making changes and talking to people allot
[01:13] <froud> plovs, this bothers some people
[01:13] <froud> I do believe I have done so for the better
[01:13] <froud> but if people dont like it I will tune out
[01:14] <plovs> so far I have no complaints, the faqguide changes have only improved it
[01:18] <froud> Like everyone, I dont have much time, so I plan my spare time to be max productive. This results in me doing allot when I do do something. On this project I did howver find that I had to ask lots of questions so I could discover where things were. Then when I found something I felt could be done in a better way I proposed a change. People were slow to respond, I moaned and then went ahead.
[01:18] <ChrisH> froud: Hey, no need to feel offended. Just if you do structural changes you make writers screw the work and start from scratch. As long as the documents can be written and the structure around it is moved... okay then. Just when work becomes useless due to constant changes... that's not helpful.
[01:19] <ChrisH> froud: I feel that it's hard to track every single change. Between two checkouts there are usually 10 revision numbers difference.
[01:19] <froud> ChrisH, but that is normal
[01:20] <froud> on some projects I get rev diffs in the 100's
[01:20] <ChrisH> froud: The recent work is much appreciated. I just wished it had been done already so people may write freely.
[01:20] <ChrisH> I don't mind having the guides split. As long as the focus - and thus the writing style - can be kept.
[01:20] <froud> ChrisH, the big changes have been made
[01:20] <plovs> what structural changes have been made? i wrote a whole guide and i have zero complaints
[01:20] <ChrisH> The "admin guide" thingy just scared me a little. :)
[01:21] <froud> ChrisH, do you remember people      said, "let's finish one thing first."
[01:21] <froud> I think that itis easier to finish small things
[01:21] <ChrisH> plovs: The whole document has been rearranged mulitple times. And what is even worse: basic ideas have been questioned and moved around like "do we really need the faqguide?" or "can't we union the user's guide and the quick guide" ...
[01:22] <ChrisH> froud: I just liked to keep on writing the sysadmin section... assumed the plan hasn't changed that we need it that way.
[01:22] <froud> ChrisH, change is inevitable at this early stage
[01:22] <plovs> ChrisH: good that i was away then
[01:23] <ChrisH> froud: you proposed to have the same contents in the user's guide and the quick guide. However I assumed they try to achieve different goals. It's not important whether the graphics are changed. But it's very important to know your audience and what is supposed to go into the documentation.
[01:23] <ChrisH> plovs: Indeed. :)
[01:23] <ChrisH> froud: If the goals is the same just that the chapters move to another document and there is a consensus - no problem.
[01:23] <plovs> the quickguide is giving lots of headaches, i must say
[01:24] <ChrisH> froud: But when I'll be forced to rewrite the same chapter just because we introduce new ideas every week then after the third time you will probably not see many contributions from me.
[01:24] <froud> ChrisH, the goals are the same. Belive me I do know the diff between QU and UG
[01:24] <froud> ChrisH, in what parts did this problem happen to yo
[01:25] <ChrisH> froud: In everything that was discussed during the last two months. After the whole situation was cleared there was another posting saying "instead of doing what we currently do shouldn't we rather..." and everyone dropped their pens.
[01:25] <froud> ChrisH, when I arrived the files were empty
[01:25] <froud> the framework was a mess
[01:26] <froud> and nobody was committing
[01:26] <froud> I proposed and announced changes
[01:26] <ChrisH> froud: Still hardly anyone is committing IMHO.
[01:26] <froud> people did not object
[01:26] <ChrisH> froud: Although that isn't meant to be your problem. :)
[01:27] <froud> My thinking is work small commit often
[01:27] <ChrisH> froud: The changes were needed. And as you know we two had the same objections... wiki sucks... we need a meta-format for multiple output formats...
[01:27] <ChrisH> froud: Just that your experience with docbook is far above from what I know.
[01:27] <froud> Docbook meta can be arrnaged :-)
[01:27] <froud> ChrisH, I offerred to help
[01:27] <froud> and did so with plovs
[01:28] <froud> questions, problems, come to me
[01:28] <ChrisH> I don't mean to speak for others... but I often felt like "please... no basic change again... just let me finish one paragraph already before I'm forced to throw it away"
[01:28] <ChrisH> And by ignoring recent talks here I at least did some work. :)
[01:28] <froud> Why throw it away
[01:29] <plovs> ChrisH: just do your stuff, i noticed that works best
[01:29] <froud> ChrisH, just hack the source
[01:29] <froud> let me and svn take care of the rest
[01:29] <ChrisH> Hmmm.
[01:30] <froud> The changes (major) are long done
[01:30] <plovs> i feel like a ten year old, but what major changes have been made?
[01:30] <froud> Anyway I would not split UG unless all agreed. So far nobody has
[01:31] <ChrisH> I'd like to learn more about the quirks of DocBook, too. But all the time I spend discussing here is less time I can spend writing.
[01:31] <plovs> ChrisH: you are doing the admin part right?
[01:31] <froud> plovs, I made framework a directory changes
[01:32] <plovs> froud: trunk / tags /branches , that's a minor change
[01:32] <froud> ChrisH, sometimes you have to do both at the same time. Write, write and write, you will learn docbook on the way, with help from me
[01:32] <froud> plovs, IMHO yes
[01:32] <froud> but not to everyone
[01:32] <froud> have to think of the others
[01:32] <ChrisH> plovs: Yes, I have started with that.
[01:33] <plovs> you noticed there is documentation on gpm in yelp already
[01:33] <plovs> i was wondering how to use existing documentation, copy and change it or link to it
[01:35] <plovs> i can't get local links to work
[01:35] <plovs> and copying ... i don't know, what do you guys think
[01:36] <froud> plovs, I am not sure you are speaking about?
[01:36] <froud> I dont understand
[01:37] <plovs> froud: for example, in the userguide is a part on playing music, now we already have documentation on rhytmbox, which is quite ok, how to reuse that documentation.
[01:38] <plovs> same with gpm, how does gnome work etc
[01:38] <froud> where is the doc on rythmbox
[01:38] <plovs> start yelp -> applications -> Multimedia Applications -> Rhythmbox Manual
[01:39] <froud> I understand
[01:39] <froud> you want to use docs from other vendors
[01:39] <froud> is that right?
[01:39] <plovs> sure, it is all gpl-ed
[01:40] <plovs> that's the whole idea of open source, re-use what is good, improve etc
[01:40] <froud> in help you can link with the command yelp:appname
[01:41] <froud> The problem is that this does not validate by default
[01:41] <plovs> froud: in docbook?
[01:41] <froud> or do I still not understand
[01:42] <froud> yes in docbook
[01:43] <froud> The Rythmbox docs are installed by GNOME
[01:43] <froud> Skrollkeeper organizes the docs
[01:44] <plovs> like this?  <link linkend="yelp:app">Cool app</link>
[01:44] <froud> when you want to link from say the User Guide to Rythmbox docs you can therefore use yelp:rythmbox
[01:44] <froud> yes
[01:44] <froud> it shoudl work
[01:44] <plovs> let me try, this would be cool
[01:44] <froud> I can look iiit up in the GNOME documents and get back to you
[01:45] <froud> I have not worried about it as It was not required
[01:49] <froud> plovs, <ulink type=help url=ghelp:foo>text</ulink>
[01:49] <froud> plovs, and this will validate
[01:49] <froud> hope that helps
[01:51] <plovs> froud: yes! that works
[01:51] <froud> good
[01:51] <plovs> i just added a link to synaptic documentation
[01:51] <froud> as you said xmllint and froud , good tools :-)
[01:52] <plovs> which means we can interlink all our docs, quickguide, userguide, faqguide and other docs
[01:52] <plovs> utterly neat, thanks froud
[01:52] <froud> yes
[01:53] <froud> I see indexterms will also work
[01:53] <froud> but note, this only work for GNOME
[01:53] <froud> we will have to engineer something for KDE when it comes
[01:54] <plovs> somebody with kde should try and make a bugzilla entr
[01:55] <froud> what do you mean?
[01:56] <plovs> we should make a package of our docs, put it in scrollkeeper etc and then it will not work on kde and we have a bug
[01:56] <froud> no we compile our packaaages to work with both pdesktops
[01:57] <froud> its not a bug
[01:57] <froud> its incompatability between desktops
[01:58] <plovs> from a users viewpoint: package no work => package broken => bug (the rest is semantics), off course you are technically correct
[01:59] <froud> fo rnow we only have gnome to contend with. I will engineer a solution for KDE
[01:59] <plovs> froud: http://live.gnome.org/Yelp nice features for 2.10 (hoary)
[02:00] <plovs> froud: good, do you know how to add docs to scrollkeeper?
[02:01] <froud> Give me some time I will hack it. I already understand OMF files
[02:09] <froud> ChrisH, you see talking is good, so long as it is on the subject :-)
[02:10] <plovs> froud: can you do svn up and test userguide -> software -> synaptic link?
[02:10] <ChrisH> I don't doubt that.
[02:11] <ChrisH> I wonder why my point was so confusing that even after the 10th time it's misunderstandable... I don't think talking is bad.
[02:13] <plovs> froud: as it looks from here ChrisH is a little tired of people coming in doing stuff making noise and disappearing again, we had a bunch of those, the problem was noise and disappearing not talking and doing
[02:14] <froud> welcome to OSS
[02:14] <plovs> :-)
[02:14] <ChrisH> froud: No excuse.
[02:14] <ChrisH> plovs: That's one part. The other part is changing the fundamentals so often that writers can't even finish one page before it has become either obsolete or severely changed.
[02:15] <ChrisH> froud: Just because "in OSS" is appears to be done like that I don't think this is valid to do it the same way here.
[02:15] <froud> ChrisH, OSS is based on "Gift Culture" that is just the way it goes.
[02:15] <froud> ChrisH, you mean come and go
[02:16] <plovs> come and go is ok, the part in the middle leaves something to be desired sometimes
[02:16] <ChrisH> froud: Ah, okay. Yes, that's OSS sprit allright.
[02:16] <ChrisH> froud: 90% of the "yeah, I'm on" people are indeed talkers.
[02:16] <ChrisH> froud: That's why I wanted to at least contribute /some/ content to not be one of them. :)
[02:16] <plovs> but we finally are seeing more comits, so lets keep this up
[02:16] <froud> plovs, agreed
[02:16] <ChrisH> As long as people's work isn't for /dev/null I'll agree to everything. :)
[02:17] <plovs> ChrisH: /dev/dsp ?
[02:17] <ChrisH> plovs: Nope. My sound card isn't working still...
[02:17] <plovs> isa-card?
[02:18] <plovs> some of my friends had that problem
[02:18] <plovs> froud: does the link work?
[02:18] <froud> dunno mate talking
[02:18] <plovs> ChrisH: do you write about package management as well?
[02:19] <ChrisH> plovs: Sound Blaster. But that's the Debian machine. :)
[02:19] <ChrisH> plovs: Yes, about synaptic.
[02:19] <plovs> did you write it already?
[02:19] <ChrisH> plovs: No, Sir.
[02:19] <ChrisH> plovs: the menus have been rearranged in Hoary so I'm not quite sure which part is on my list
[02:19] <plovs> because i am ... uh .. not to upset you  but ... uh ...
[02:20] <plovs> also writing about package management
[02:20] <plovs> so we should sync, and i can do something else if needed
[02:21] <plovs> what i did is in trunk/userguide/software/chap-*.xml
[02:21] <plovs> (not much yet)
[02:28] <plovs> ChrisH: look at what i did and i'll move to "common tasks" ok?
[02:28] <hornbeck> anyone around?
[02:28] <plovs> hornbeck: hi!
[02:28] <hornbeck> in the userguide if you click next it errors
[02:29] <plovs> hornbeck: next what?
[02:30] <ChrisH> plovs: which part exactly?
[02:30] <plovs> trunk/userguide/software/chap-*.xml
[02:31] <hornbeck> plovs: at the bottom of every page there is a Prev and Next button, if you click Next it errors saying that page is not there
[02:32] <plovs> hornbeck: not an warty it ain't and don't
[02:32] <hornbeck> I don't have warty :-)
[02:32] <froud> hornbeck, under static html?
[02:32] <plovs> waaah, mama thay are teasing me...
[02:33] <hornbeck> froud: in yelp
[02:34] <plovs> btw do you guys also get this error: I/O error : Attempt to load network entity http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.3/docbookx.dtd?
[02:34] <froud> hornbeck, it works for me
[02:35] <hornbeck> hmmm
[02:35] <plovs> froud: you have hoary?
[02:35] <froud> plovs,  you must have docbook 4.3
[02:35] <plovs> froud: i have
[02:35] <froud> hornbeck, do make clean
[02:35] <froud> then make ug
[02:35] <hornbeck> I have never done make
[02:36] <froud> cd trunk/
[02:36] <froud> make ug
[02:36] <hornbeck> I am yelp userguide.xml
[02:36] <froud> the output is in trunk/build
[02:36] <froud> plovs, once you have docbook 4.3 check that your catalogs are right /etc/xml/
[02:37] <froud> hornbeck, di dyou svn up
[02:37] <hornbeck> I do about every hour
[02:37] <froud> he he
[02:37] <froud> what version of yelp is this
[02:37] <hornbeck> let me check
[02:38] <froud> hornbeck, also try svn up -r HEAD
[02:38] <hornbeck> yelp 2.9.2
[02:39] <hornbeck> I gotta run, I will post my findings
[02:39] <froud> plovs, also note that xsltproc looks for XML_CATALOG_FILES in the env
[02:40] <froud> if you wnat you can export it to your catalog, something like XML_CATALOG_FILES=/usr/share/xml/docbook/schema/dtd/4.3/catalog.xml
[02:40] <froud> hornbeck, ok
[03:05] <plovs> froud: yes, exporting it helped
[03:09] <plovs> froud: it also makes yelp slow as mud
[03:25] <froud> plovs, dont know why. but one is for sure your catalog system is confused
[03:32] <froud> hornbeck, the problem with prev, next links seems to be a bug in Yelp 2.9.3
[05:42] <froud> plovs, do you we want a single seriesid for scrollkeeper?
[05:42] <froud> or do we want one for each book?
[05:43] <froud> in addition, do we want a single OMF with all resources or an OMF per book
[06:26] <froud> under what category do we install our docs
[06:29] <sivang> froud: ask seb128
[06:29] <sivang> froud: he is the one who does all the pckaging
[06:43] <abelli> ciao
[06:51] <froud> sivang, as you saw. not much help there.  Thanks
[07:08] <plovs> ok, just walked back in, froud what did you ask me abourt scrollkeeper?
[07:10] <plovs> ok, got to go again
[07:41] <sivang> froud: were you talking abou registering docs into scrollkeeper?
[08:23] <froud> sivang, you there


[00:08] <petri> thank you ghost of smallwooddr82
[08:22] <qwebirc77628> morning folks. How would I go about upgrading a 12.x LTS system to 14.x where I have diskless front ends. I can't see any guides anywhere that describe this


[00:46] <emgent> uhm
[00:46] <emgent> launchpad bugs icon dont work
[00:47] <emgent> (in edge)
[01:04] <kiko> emgent, probably the librarian giving you a headache
[01:04] <kiko> reload the image, should work fine
[01:06] <emgent> sale problem, but persist only in edge
[01:07] <emgent> s/sale/same/
[01:59] <LaserJock> so, is there a way to see all the branches I've committed to on LP?
[02:00] <LaserJock> somehow I don't have anything under "Related Branches" and I would have thought there was something
[02:01] <spiv> LaserJock: worth filing a feature request/bug for that, I think.
[02:01] <spiv> LaserJock: the linking of committer ID and LP user is fairly new.
[02:01] <LaserJock> I can't even remember some the branches/projects I've committed to
[02:02] <LaserJock> so "Related Branches" are just branches I own?
[02:05] <spiv> Yeah, I think so.
[02:05] <spiv> thumper: ^
[02:06] <thumper> LaserJock: committed to? not yet
[02:06] <LaserJock> I just wondered what was actually shown
[02:06] <thumper> LaserJock: however branches that are yours or you registered are under https://code.launchpad.net/people/+me
[02:07] <thumper> LaserJock: on the main view it is branches you have registered, branches you own, and branches you are subscribed to
[02:07] <LaserJock> hmm, I guess I just thought that I would have had something
[02:15] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: ah, thanks, please file that for me too :)
[02:38] <laszlok> how come when I go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/186273 I get the very unexplainative "Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page." message?
[02:39] <mwhudson> it's a private bug
[02:39] <mwhudson> maybe it describes a security problem
[02:39] <LaserJock> probably because it contains a crash report
[02:39] <LaserJock> which may contain private info
[02:40] <laszlok> yeah i was thinking security, although it would be nice if the error page said that
[02:40] <RAOF> And the apport retracer has either not yet removed it, or barfed while retracing.
[02:43] <laszlok> well one of my bugs got marked as a dup of this one, and launchpad just removes the hyperlink and doesn't explain that its private or anything
[03:30] <poolie> is it a known bug that people's pgp signatures are being turned into bug attachments?
[03:31] <mwhudson> yes
[03:39] <lifeless> _lol_
[03:41] <poolie> i would have thought they'd be distinguished at the mime level but mabye not
[03:46] <mwhudson> they are supposed to be; i don't think it's happening to everyone
[05:01] <samiam> I'
[05:01] <samiam> I'm currently having an issue getting connected to launchpad
[05:01] <samiam> anyone else seeing the problem
[05:02] <stdin> on edge, yes
[05:02] <stdin> normal lp.net works
[05:02] <samiam> yes stdin
[05:03] <spiv> It's working ok for me.
[05:03] <calc> its back now (if you are talking about b.e.l.n)
[05:03] <spiv> (both normal and edge)
[05:03] <samiam> back up now... thanks
[05:04] <stdin> just a little hiccup
[05:04] <samiam> :-)
[08:14] <AnAnt> I think there's a bug in launchpad , in the PPA page, some UTF characters are not displayed, but instead their transliteration is displayed
[08:18] <cprov> AnAnt: can you confirm if it's the same issue reported in bug 207625 ?
[08:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 207625 in soyuz "Unicode characters improperly displayed in PPA changelog" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/207625
[08:21] <AnAnt> yes, that is the problem I got, my arabic name (written in UTF) that's in changelog isn't displayed properly
[08:21] <AnAnt> instead a latin transliteration of each letter is displayed
[08:57] <AnAnt> cprov: thanks
[09:53] <carlos> morning
[09:55] <directhex|bsp> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13043550/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-amd64.mono_1.9%2Bdfsg-1~dhx2_CHROOTWAIT.txt.gz - so... why is the chroot trying to pull in my PPA (which is empty, since this is my first package), and how can i stop it from doing so, so the packages actually build, so there's things to pull in from my ppa?
[09:55] <directhex|bsp> hurrah for circular issues
[09:57] <cprov> directhex|bsp: bug 196782, wait 20 minutes and retry the build
[09:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 196782 in soyuz "First build in a new PPA fails" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/196782
[09:58] <directhex|bsp> cprov, okay then. cheers
[09:59] <directhex|bsp> cprov, worth mentioning on https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart ?
[09:59] <cprov> directhex|bsp: not really, it's not a feature, it's a bug ;)
[10:00] <cprov> which will get fixed, eventually.
[10:02] <thekorn> hi, I've got two questions: everybody can use edge.launchpad.net, not only members of lp-beta-testers, is this correct?
[10:04] <thekorn> and second one: every user can login into edge and the logindata (password/email) is the same, also correct?
[10:15] <jmehdi> How long does it take for a mailing list to be configure?
[10:22] <directhex|bsp> cprov, so, erm, how do i force the package to rebuild? dput it again?
[10:24] <cprov> directhex|bsp: no, there is a  "retry" link/action/yellow-warning in the build page
[10:25] <directhex|bsp> aha, so there is
[10:26] <cprov> directhex|bsp: I wonder why everyone misses it the first time.
[10:27] <directhex|bsp> cprov, because they click the build record directly from the "view build logs" page, so never see the page with the retry link on it
[10:28] <cprov> directhex|bsp: yes, that's one of the reasons.
[10:28] <directhex|bsp> cprov, you asked, i answered!
[10:29] <cprov> directhex|bsp: :)
[10:30] <directhex|bsp> this PPA thing may well be rather handy. doing things by hand in vmware was always a time sink
[10:32] <directhex|bsp> hurrah. "Status:  	 Currently building "
[10:32] <cprov> directhex|bsp: true, it becomes even more useful in the medium/long term, storage/conformity/availability/history/many-users/etc
[10:34] <directhex|bsp> cprov, well, some of those factors are negated by bug 125103. but certainly it should save me some fuss as time goes by
[10:34] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 125103 in soyuz "ppa archives are not signed" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/125103 - Assigned to Celso Providelo (cprov)
[10:35] <AnAnt> Hello, when using bzr, can't I checkout just a single folder instead of the whole branch ?
[10:35] <directhex|bsp> i'll nick the mirror&sign script from the mythbuntu lot
[10:36] <cprov> directhex|bsp: yes, I know :( but you can always, sync & sign your own PPA
[10:37] <directhex|bsp> cprov, i'm not complaining. i'd rather mirror it - people expect my mirror to be in a particular place
[10:38] <directhex|bsp> cprov, actually, what's the best way to force-feed to someone that a mirror has changed? if i put an http redirect on Packages.gz to a non-existent file called mirror-has-changed-see-website-for-details, would they see that sneakily embedded message when trying to search for package updates?
[10:38] <directhex|bsp> i've wondered about the question of how to "cleanly" alert users of a mirror that it's shutting down for a while
[10:39] <cprov> directhex|bsp: no :) if it's tracked in LP it will be presented as "failing"
[10:40] <directhex|bsp> Status:  	 Successfully built
[10:40] <cprov> directhex|bsp: dunno, if we have such feature.
[11:11] <ubotu> New bug: #210604 in launchpad-bazaar ""Related Branches" should show branches I've commited to" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210604
[11:19] <ubotu> New bug: #210689 in launchpad "It should be possible to allocate more than one branch to a release series" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210689
[12:31] <ubotu> New bug: #210761 in launchpad "password-reset e-mails look too generic" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210761
[12:52] <Hobbsee> oh, way cool!
[12:52] <Hobbsee> a bug that i was going to report from sevilla in relation to the normal archive got fixed for ppa.  Thanks guys!
[13:01] <ubotu> New bug: #210571 in malone "attachments listing in +text interface is wonky" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210571
[13:07] <ccm> hi there
[13:08] <ccm> i just came to the question if there are spaces on launchpad for using it as an organisation tracker
[13:08] <ccm> so more a trouble ticket system for locos e.g.
[13:08] <geser> does LP support DSA2 keys already? I tried to add my new DSA2 key to my profile and get OOPS-823EB72 when I try to validate it
[13:10] <ubotu> New bug: #210772 in soyuz/1.2 "An estimated build duration is needed in order to estimate build job start times" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210772
[13:31] <ubotu> New bug: #210778 in launchpad "Can't validate my DSA2 key (OOPS-823EB73)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210778
[13:34] <timlinux> hi
[13:34] <timlinux> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13046441/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-i386.libopenmodeller_0.5.3-5_CHROOTWAIT.txt.gz <-- can anyone tell me if there is a problem on the build server? I dont usually get this error
[13:36] <ubotu> New bug: #210781 in soyuz "In order to estimate build job start times new build jobs need to have an estimated duration set for them" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210781
[13:39] <cprov> timlinux: if it's the first publication for feisty in your PPA, it's bug 196782, again :(
[13:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 196782 in soyuz "First build in a new PPA fails" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/196782
[13:40] <timlinux> cprov: yes its the first time we try to publish to our team archive - previously I published ot my persoanal PPA (it its not too redundant to say that?)
[13:41] <timlinux> cprov: ok thank I read the bug report and we will resubmit
[13:41] <cprov> timlinux: right, not worries, wait 20 and retry the build (use the link in the build page)
[13:42] <timlinux> 20 = 20 mins / s / hours ?
[13:42] <cprov> 20 minutes
[13:44] <timlinux> cprov: ok thank!
[13:44] <timlinux> er thanks
[13:47] <Hobbsee> any eta on that bug being fixed?
[14:03] <directhex|bsp> aha, that's why my build fails. aren't -dev packages meant to Depend: on the lib itself, so linking doesn't fail horribly?
[14:11] <ubotu> New bug: #210796 in launchpad "Mirror prober may call a deferred twice for mirrors that redirect" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210796
[14:30] <Adri2000> why are .po files in https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/tasks/+imports still not accepted? I see a bug report saying the package doesn't create a .pot file, but couldn't these .po files be accepted anyway so that they are at least included in the langpacks?
[14:42] <directhex|bsp> not well-formed (invalid token) at line 11, column 93, byte 680 at /usr/lib/perl5/XML/Parser.pm line 187
[14:42] <directhex|bsp> that's not a good thing to see in a build log
[15:45] <ubotu> New bug: #210821 in launchpad "Invalid project appearing in tracker list" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210821
[15:53] <popey> :( just got an oops in response to mrevells mail trying to use https://edge.launchpad.net/~alanpope/+editemails to sub to launchpad-doc - OOPS-823EB110
[15:54] <Hobbsee> popey: you circular-subscribed the lists?
[15:54] <popey> don't cross the beams!
[15:54] <Hobbsee> if you did, that's a dupe.
[15:54] <popey> i just clicked the link, chose to sub to lp-doc and hit "Update subs"
[15:56] <directhex|bsp> erm... how can i make my PPA depend on $RELEASE-backports?
[15:57] <cprov> directhex|bsp: you can't PPAs are locked on $RELEASE, -updates and -security, atm
[15:57] <directhex|bsp> :(
[15:57] <directhex|bsp> that's sub-optimal
[15:58] <cprov> directhex|bsp: not really only upload to -backport itself can depend on it.
[15:58] <cprov> directhex|bsp: anyway, we are working to extend this via Archive dependencies in the next cycle. So you are lucky :)
[15:59] <directhex|bsp> when's the next cycle?
[16:00] <cprov> directhex|bsp: 26th this month
[16:01] <directhex|bsp> well, could be much worse then. thanks for the info
[16:02] <cprov> directhex|bsp: sorry, but I have to ask, why to you need -backports ?
[16:02] <directhex|bsp> cprov, libvisual-0.4
[16:03] <cprov> directhex|bsp: does it also depends on other backported packages ?
[16:03] <cprov> directhex|bsp: if not,  you could just rebuild it in your PPA and carry on.
[16:04] <directhex|bsp> yeah, that's a reasonable hack
[16:07] <matsubara> popey: you were bitten by bug 208431
[16:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 208431 in launchpad "OOPS trying to subscribe to inactive mailing list" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208431 - Assigned to Barry Warsaw (barry)
[16:08] <popey> ah, excellent, thanks matsubara
[16:17] <persia> Can an OOPS be submitted here, or only via email?  How about in a bug report?
[16:27] <gmb> persia: Feel free to tell us about it here.
[16:28] <gmb> But a bug report or email would be a more permanent record from our point of view.
[16:28] <persia> OOPS-823E2752 was generated from https://launchpad.net/token/NoYouWontGetMyToken/+accountmerge when trying to merge the alfie-ist account into the rhonda account.  This is a repeat of previous attempts.
[16:28] <ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/823E2752
[16:29] <gmb> persia: Right, thanks. I'll look into that.
[16:29] <persia> Should this be done as a question rather than a semi-automated merge, or is there some bug that can be worked around?
[16:30] <gmb> persia: I honestly don't know. It looks like there was a database timeout - that's what caused the OOPS.
[16:30] <gmb> persia: In this case, I'd say file a question so that we can sort it out for you manually, and I'll file a bug about the timeout.
[16:30] <persia> gmb.  Thanks.  I'll tell Rhonda to try again later, or submit a question if she gets frustrated.
[16:30] <gmb> persia: NP.
[16:33] <gmb> persia: bug 210864
[16:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 210864 in launchpad "Timeout when attempting to merge accounts" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210864
[16:34] <persia> gmb: Thanks.
[16:40] <ubotu> New bug: #210864 in launchpad "Timeout when attempting to merge accounts" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210864
[16:50] <kiko> dupe
[16:50] <kiko> matsubara, what's it a dupe of? :)
[16:57] <matsubara> bug 162510
[16:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 162510 in launchpad "Merging people times out updating POSubmission and POMsgSet" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162510
[17:22] <LaserJock> so, umm, what are we supposed to do with openid?
[17:29] <Rinchen> LaserJock, ?
[17:29] <LaserJock> I got an email from flacoste
[17:30] <LaserJock> but I have no idea what I'm actually supposed to test
[17:30] <Rinchen> LaserJock, https://help.launchpad.net/OpenID
[17:30] <Rinchen> LaserJock, e.g. Login to pibb.com  or my blog :-)
[17:30] <Rinchen> or any of the 1000s of other enabled sites
[17:32] <LaserJock> so I can't use it the other way around?
[17:32] <LaserJock> I can't log in to LP using openid?
[17:32] <Rinchen> LaserJock, correct. We don't support that at this time.
[17:32] <LaserJock> :/
[17:33] <LaserJock> fair enough, one step at a time :-)
[17:34] <Rinchen> LaserJock, I've actually been using it since November as part of the alpha and it's worked really well for me.
[17:34] <LaserJock> do the forums or the wiki or anything else that uses LP authentication use openid?
[17:34] <Rinchen> LaserJock, we've had to upgrade the openid code when 2.0 was released and that delayed the announement a bit
[17:35] <Rinchen> LaserJock, internally we do (the canonical store for example) and after openid comes out of beta we have plans to expand it to the fridge and the forums (we're working with the forums council)
[17:35] <ralph> Hi, is it accepted that the pie chart on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu is a poor way to present the information and something like a bar chart would be better.  Or should I open a bug to try and argue that the small wedges aren't clearly visible and the labels overprint?
[17:35] <Rinchen> LaserJock, you can see those blueprints by following the email from the beta note
[17:35] <Rinchen> ralph, there's an existing bug for that :-)
[17:35] <ralph> OK, thought there might be.  Thanks.
[17:38] <LaserJock> Rinchen: as sort of a pet peeve, I think it's a pretty bad idea to link to LP blueprints from any help.lp.net page
[17:39] <Rinchen> LaserJock, why?
[17:39] <LaserJock> because nobody can read the specs
[17:39] <Rinchen> the details, sure. I agree with that
[17:39] <LaserJock> you're linking to a private wiki, which is most unhelpful to regular users
[17:39] <Rinchen> the titles are often of some benefit though
[17:40] <Rinchen> and yes, we have some plans to address that
[17:41] <LaserJock> but the specs are what people care about, most titles and short descriptions only lead you to "I wish I knew what they were talking about, why doesn't this "Read the full specification" link work?"
[17:46] <jelmer> hi
[17:46] <jelmer> I can't find any openid url on my profile page
[17:47] <jelmer> do I need to enable openid support somehow?
[17:53] <LaserJock> jelmer: what are you trying to do?
[17:53] <jelmer> trying out the new OpenID provider support
[17:54] <LaserJock> you just stick in https://login.launchpad.net I think
[17:54] <jelmer> LaserJock: I was trying to use delegation
[17:54] <jmehdi> I'd like to know what the "request feedback" form does; does it just send an email? Is there some sort of workflow?
[17:55] <jelmer> LaserJock: the help page claims there is an openid url on my profile page but I can't find any
[17:55] <ubotu> New bug: #210899 in launchpad "openid login url not shown on edge.launchpad.net" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210899
[17:55] <jelmer> LaserJock: Trying to use OP without delegation gives "Invalid entry no_identity_server: The provided URL doesn't declare its OpenID identity server."
[17:57] <jelmer> ah, "https://launchpad.net/~jelmer" works ok
[18:07] <AnAnt> Hello, how much time does it take for an svn import to start on LP ?
[18:10] <Rinchen> AnAnt, it may take some time for an import to be reviewed. We're working on making it faster.  If you don't see anything by tomorrow, email the launchpad-users list with the details
[18:10] <AnAnt> Rinchen: actually I filed the request yesterday
[18:10] <Rinchen> jelmer, LaserJock - need some help please
[18:11] <jelmer> Rinchen: hi
[18:11] <Rinchen> jelmer, LaserJock - if you look at your person pages in edge... under your PGP keys, do you see something that has your OpenID url?
[18:11] <jelmer> Rinchen: no
[18:11] <Rinchen> AnAnt, give it one more day please
[18:11] <AnAnt> Rinchen: ok
[18:12] <Rinchen> jelmer, LaserJock - crud, ok.
[18:12] <Rinchen> we seem to have a minor issue
[18:12] <LaserJock> Rinchen: I don't see anything either
[18:13] <Rinchen> seems there is field which should display there.... I can see it for example...but the beta team can't
[18:14] <Rinchen> I've asked someone to look into it. It might be an inheritance issue with respect to teams
[18:15] <Rinchen> if this is the case then it's possible this is why you can't login to any openid sites as well
[18:18] <Rinchen> at least I could spell OpenID correctly :-)
[18:22] <Rinchen> I'll be back in 30
[18:27] <ubotu> New bug: #192084 in launchpad-documentation "BugStatuses help page does not cover custom BugZilla statuses" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/192084
[18:27] <ubotu> New bug: #210908 in launchpad "allow customizable OpenID name" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210908
[18:27] <ubotu> New bug: #210910 in malone "Difficult to unsubscribe from bug once it is marked duplicate of another" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210910
[18:40] <Rinchen> jelmer, LaserJock, nealmcb - seems the url works fine in production....just not on edge.
[18:41] <LaserJock> Rinchen: sure
[18:41] <LaserJock> which is what is ironic
[18:41] <LaserJock> since it's Beta
[18:41] <Rinchen> it appears it's a simple config issue on our end.
[18:45] <nealmcb> Rinchen: yeah - the approach in the bug above lets me find out what you want me to use
[18:46] <nealmcb> but I much prefer jelmer's approach of just using http://launchpad.net/~nealmcb/ as my openid
[18:47] <nealmcb> as I have argued before, for many use cases the point is to advertise my preferred, memorable id in my blog comments and bug reports, not some random jumble of letters
[18:53] <Rinchen> nealmcb, as listed in the help document, we originally did that but decided against it for privacy reasons
[18:54] <Rinchen> nealmcb, we do have an idea about allowing users to create an alias though.
[18:58] <nealmcb> I'm still trying to figure out the use cases here - what scenario do you have where someone would want to use a launchpad id, but not want to expose their id?  Most existing openid usage, e.g. by bloggers, seems to be with the intention of advertising their id, not hiding it.  And for use by loco web sites, again we want to look up other attributes like loco membership etc, using their launchpad handle
[18:59] <nealmcb> I guess as a loco we can just require the ~handle "public" form, and report an error if they use the jumbled version or the 2.0 version, and then do our own lookups on the launchpad site to get the rest of the info, but that's a pain
[19:05] <jmehdi> I'd like to know what the "request feedback" form does; does it just send an email? Is there some sort of workflow?
[19:06] <nealmcb> Rinchen: ^^^ on use cases
[19:06] <Rinchen> jmehdi, it sends the LP devs an email
[19:06] <Rinchen> jmehdi, ah you mean in blueprints?
[19:07] <Rinchen> jmehdi, that notifies the person you requested feedback from to review the blueprint
[19:07] <Rinchen> nealmcb, gotcha
[19:07] <jmehdi> Rinchen, by email? that's all?
[19:09] <BUGabundo> ok I can't see it
[19:10] <BUGabundo> where it the OpenID id ??
[19:10] <BUGabundo> can't see it on my profile page!!
[19:11] <Rinchen> jmehdi, for blueprints we use it like this:  I write up a blueprint document and I want your opinion. I request feedback from you.  You get notified that I would like your feedback and you review it.
[19:11] <Rinchen> BUGabundo, known issue. Use production, not edge
[19:11] <Rinchen> BUGabundo, it's also in BOLD on the help wiki page :-)
[19:11] <BUGabundo> how can I do that?
[19:11] <BUGabundo> every time I get to LP
[19:12] <BUGabundo> it just redirects to edge
[19:12] <Rinchen> BUGabundo, go to launchpad.net (the front page) and hit the disable redirect button
[19:12] <BUGabundo> I've read that, but can't change
[19:12] <BUGabundo> ahhh
[19:12] <BUGabundo> home page, not my profile
[19:12] <BUGabundo> thanks
[19:12] <BUGabundo> and stagging?
[19:12] <jmehdi> rinchen, if I specify a team, it sends an email to all members?
[19:12] <BUGabundo> same issue?
[19:13] <Rinchen> hmm
[19:13] <Rinchen> let me look
[19:13] <Rinchen> also I updated the help wiki to include the button instructions
[19:13] <BUGabundo> ok I'm on https://launchpad.net/~bugabundo
[19:13] <BUGabundo> but still don't see any link for openid
[19:14] <BUGabundo> ahhh
[19:14] <BUGabundo> seen it
[19:24] <persia> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-March/003488.html
[19:24] <persia> Err.  Sorry :)
[19:27] <Rinchen> nealmcb, jelmer - can you guys please visit https://staging.launchpad.net/people/+me     login, and then verify you can see your openid url for me please?
[19:28] <nealmcb> ahh - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/199069 and the mutability problems....
[19:31] <BUGabundo> there is no OpenID on staging
[19:32] <pochu> jtv: hi, I just got an automated message from you asking me whether I've contacted the authors. Yes, they have asked me set Rosetta up to use it for the official emesene translations
[19:32] <pochu> jtv: (I don't know whether I should have replied to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>as it wasn't clear in the mail...)
[19:34] <jtv> pochu: Thanks.
[19:34] <BUGabundo> there is no OpenID on staging, Rinchen
[19:34] <jtv> pochu: Just hitting "reply" would've been fine.  :-)
[19:34] <pochu> jtv: but hold on, I'll ask them again just in case
[19:35] <nealmcb> Rinchen: I'm now logged in on staging, and still don't see my openid there
[19:44] <jtv> pochu: thanks... could you reply to the email so I don't forget?
[19:44] <jtv> pochu: once everything is clear, I mean.
[19:47] <pochu> jtv: sure, I'll do that
[19:47] <jtv> pochu: thanks.
[19:52] <pochu> jtv: I've just got confirmation from an upstream administrator (he has just join IRC). Is that good enough for you?
[19:53] <jtv> pochu: sure.  I have to run now, so make sure you send that email!
[19:54] <pochu> jtv: ok, I'm on it :)
[19:54] <jtv> :)
[19:55] <jmehdi> how long does it take for a mailing list to be approved?
[19:56] <AnAnt> Hello, how can I change Email contact details for a team on LP ?
[19:57] <Rinchen> nealmcb, well, the simple answer to staging is... it won't work. :-)  The production changes applied today to enable openid access have not rolled out to staging. I'm trying to do the same changes on staging now though.
[20:00] <Rinchen> nealmcb, looks like I can't do it on staging. It'll be updated overnight
[20:00] <Rinchen> thanks for your help
[20:01] <Rinchen> AnAnt, you can edit the details of the team
[20:01] <Rinchen> AnAnt, specifically the link is change details
[20:01] <Rinchen> er
[20:01] <Rinchen> change contact address
[20:02] <Rinchen>   ...  ~yourteam/+contactaddress
[20:02] <AnAnt> Rinchen: thanks
[20:07] <nealmcb> Rinchen: delegation worked for me - cool!
[20:08] <Rinchen> nealmcb, awesome! You're the first regular user to confirm it.
[20:10] <nealmcb> well, it worked on the http://openidenabled.com/resources/openid-test/diagnose-server/   but maybe not blogger.com
[20:14] <pochu> jtv: how can I create a translators team, btw? (it could be a good addition to https://help.launchpad.net/TranslationsImportPolicy or https://help.launchpad.net/FAQ/Translations)
[20:15] <nealmcb> when I try my openid and redirection on blogger.com it seems I get redirected to the https://login.launchpad.net/ but there are no login options there
[20:18] <Rinchen> nealmcb, odd,  can you send me  a screenshot of login.lp.net  and what you did to get there?
[20:43] <cr3> after I push i18n changes to my trunk which is registered with translations, will new translations magically appear later in the +translations page of the trunk?
[20:50] <Kmos> pt.archive.ubuntu.com is dead for some days already
[20:51] <Kmos> can someone kick it for another mirror to get a new ip
[20:51] <Kmos> ?
[21:02] <Rinchen> salgado ^^
[21:07] <salgado> Rinchen, Kmos, you have to ask that in #canonical-sysadmin
[21:07] <Rinchen> thanks
[21:14] <Kmos> salgado: already done =)
[21:14] <Kmos> thanks
[21:15] <kiko> pochu, ask a question -- you just create the team, really
[21:15] <kiko> pochu, oh, a translation team for what exactly?
[21:15] <rzr> kiko: hi thx for xnetcardconfig
[21:16] <kiko> rzr, you're welcome!
[21:16] <rzr> kiko: i am waiting LP to scan my tarball ...
[21:17] <kiko> rzr, which tarball?
[21:17] <pochu> kiko: emesene
[21:17] <kiko> pochu, you don't want to use one of the existing teams?
[21:17] <pochu> kiko: it's not documented anywhere, or at least I haven't found it
[21:18] <rzr> kiko: new release
[21:18] <kiko> rzr, do we scan tarballs? I can't remember that ;)
[21:18] <rzr> A URL pattern that matches releases that are part of this series. Launchpad automatically scans this site to import new releases. Example: http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/emacs-21.*.tar.gz
[21:19] <rzr> https://launchpad.net/xnetcardconfig/trunk/+edit
[21:19] <pochu> kiko: well, the GNOME or perhaps the Ubuntu one are those which perhaps could be used by emesene, but this is not my decission, but the translators' one
[21:19] <kiko> pochu, you can decide to use one of the existing groups. here: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/+groups
[21:19] <rzr> kiko: unless there is an other way to upload them ?
[21:20] <pochu> kiko: and I will understand them if they prefer a group for them, unless you are going to accept them in a group
[21:21] <pochu> e.g. Ubuntu, but surely there's policies for becoming an e.g. Ubuntu translator (at least there were for ubuntu-l10n-es)
[21:21] <jmehdi> I want to change the contact address of my team but I got an error: <email> is already registered in Launchpad and is associated with <myTeam>. But I don't know where this <email> is already registered....
[21:22] <kiko> rzr, yes, just go to the release page and upload your tarballs
[21:22] <kiko> pochu, yes, that's true.
[21:22] <kiko> jmehdi, use launchpad.net/people to search by email address.
[21:23] <kiko> jmehdi, in the team page?
[21:23] <jmehdi> I don't find any email in change details
[21:23] <kiko> jmehdi, give me a URL!
[21:23] <NicoV> Hi, I'd like to use launchpad for translating a project I am working on
[21:23] <NicoV> I don't know how to manage 2 .pot files : I uploaded both .pot files and the .po files I already have
[21:24] <NicoV> The .pot files have been taken into account but not the .po files
[21:24] <NicoV> Is there a rule for naming the .po files when you have several .pot ?
[21:24] <pochu> kiko: there's quite some translators translating emesene for some time now, and if moving to rosetta means they no longer can translate, then the move it's probably a no-go (again this is not my decission, but that's my POV)
[21:24] <kiko> NicoV, hmm, that's a good question. can you ask in answers.launchpad.net?
[21:24] <kiko> pochu, okay, just make sure you justify it that way when you make your request in answers.launchpad.net/rosetta
[21:24] <kiko> NicoV, use answers.launchpad.net/rosetta btw.
[21:25] <NicoV> ok, will try
[21:25] <rzr> kiko: excuse me if i am blind , but where is the release page link ? :)
[21:25] <jmehdi> kiko, I want to set<EMAIL_ADDRESS>here: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntume.team/+contactaddress
[21:26] <pochu> kiko: will do, thanks for pointing me in the right direction :)
[21:27] <Rinchen> rzr, bottom right footer on LP
[21:27] <jmehdi> I think there are duplicate accounts: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntume-googlegroups
[21:27] <Rinchen> rzr, it currently says 1.2.3 on production
[21:29] <rzr> Rinchen: i am talking about publishing user project tarball not LP
[21:29] <Rinchen> rzr, ah sorry.
[21:29] <rzr> no problem :) kiko will show me :)
[21:30] <kiko> rzr, is this a release off trunk?
[21:31] <kiko> if so, do this:
[21:31] <kiko> https://edge.launchpad.net/xnetcardconfig/trunk
[21:31] <kiko> https://edge.launchpad.net/xnetcardconfig/trunk/+addrelease
[21:31] <kiko> add your release there
[21:31] <kiko> then in the release page, upload files!
[21:31] <kiko> easy
[21:32] <rzr> edge ... ok I missed this F manual
[21:33] <rzr> kiko: thanx, I'll do this if the scanner did not take my archive before tomorow
[21:33] <kiko> ok.
[21:34] <rzr> kiko: btw where is the link that lead to this "addrelease" page ?
[21:35] <kiko> Register a release, I think?
[21:35] <rzr> ok
[21:35] <rzr> sorry
[21:35] <kiko> nothing to be sorry about :)
[21:35] <rzr> i meant this link :
[21:35] <rzr> https://launchpad.net/xnetcardconfig/trunk/+addrelease
[21:35] <rzr> on edge the link is present
[21:35] <kiko> you go to trunk:
[21:35] <rzr> not on 123
[21:35] <kiko> https://launchpad.net/xnetcardconfig/trunk/
[21:36] <kiko> are you logged in?
[21:36] <rzr> oh wait you're right
[21:36] <rzr> i told you i am blind :)
[21:52] <ubotu> New bug: #211008 in soyuz "Add visual indicator for obsolete (superseded) packages in PPA" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211008
[22:26] <jmehdi> is there someone who could merge these teams: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntume-googlegroups with https://launchpad.net/~ubuntume.team (the later is the good one)
[22:28] <jmehdi> the first one is associated to a mailing list email...
[22:28] <jmehdi> and when I use "Merge launchpad accounts" I don't receive any mail
[22:31] <rzr> jmehdi: turn down your spam filter
[22:32] <jmehdi> I don't have one
[22:32] <rzr> same for your mailserver ?
[22:34] <jmehdi> I'm going to check, but are you sure it will work with this google group mailing list email address?
[22:35] <jmehdi> I forgot I had spamassassin enabled... it is disabled now, I request the merge again
[23:46] <ubotu> New bug: #211082 in launchpad<EMAIL_ADDRESS>abandoned" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211082
[23:50] <calc> anyone know how long it should take before i get the OOo translations that i requested about 30m (or so) ago?
[23:51] <ubotu> New bug: #211085 in launchpad "Warzone 2100 uses the Gna! bugtracker" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211085


[08:25] <superm1> apw, if you get that kernel that jbarnes was looking for yesterday built some time this morning, can you ping me?  I'd like to see that it fixes the problems that we found yesterday
[08:25] <apw> superm1, eep.  remind me what he was looking for
[08:27] <apw> i am building so many things for so many people ...
 10:44:46> -http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/anholt/drm-intel.git;a=commit;h=07f4f3e8a24138ca2f3650723d670df25687cd05
 10:45:06> -apw: can we get a kernel with that patch (actually a drm-intel based kernel would be even better)
[08:44] <apw> jbarnes, about?
[08:56]  * Ng shakes fist at X. Stop crashing!
[08:59] <Ng> I don't sem to get any log indication that it's doing it though, I would have expected a segfault syslog
[09:02] <apw> superm1, 32 or 64 better for you?
[09:29] <superm1> apw, 32
[09:29] <superm1> apw, i dont think atom's do 64..
[11:11] <bryce_> jbarnes_BCN: http://tinyurl.com/l7zw8u
[11:38] <apw> jbarnes_BCN, superm1, latest karmic kernel with the patch you requested up: http://people.ubuntu.com/~apw/jbarnes-karmic/
[11:40] <superm1> thanks apw, grabbing right now
[11:55] <superm1> jbarnes, apw unfortunately that kernel still does have the resume problem wrg to random corruption when KMS is enabled
[11:58] <superm1> adding on xorg-edgers right now to pair with it
[13:26] <jbarnes_BCN> commit 13f4c435ebf2a7c150ffa714f3b23b8e4e8cb42f
[13:26] <jbarnes_BCN> Author: Eric Anholt<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[13:26] <jbarnes_BCN> Date:   Tue May 12 15:27:36 2009 -0700
[13:26] <jbarnes_BCN>     drm/i915: Don't allow binding objects into the last page of the aperture.
[14:06] <superm1> jbarnes_BCN, did you see my ping before, I sent it to jbarnes. not sure if that's a local session back in californida
[14:06] <superm1> california even
[14:06] <jbarnes_BCN> heh
[14:06] <jbarnes_BCN> no I missed it
[14:06] <superm1> 29-05-2009 05:55:37 > superm1: jbarnes, apw unfortunately that kernel still does have the resume problem wrg to random corruption when KMS is enabled
[14:06] <superm1> 29-05-2009 05:58:22 > superm1: adding on xorg-edgers right now to pair with it
[14:06] <jbarnes_BCN> been off & on... had to completely reschedule my travel for the next couple of weeks
[14:06] <superm1> ah
[14:06] <jbarnes_BCN> superm1: arg ok
[14:06] <superm1> i added xorg-edgers as well, same thing
[14:07] <superm1> so i'm on a fully updated karmic + whatever is currently on edgers for karmic's ppa
[14:08] <jbarnes_BCN> I think we need a gpu dump (did we get one yet?) and a copy of the rest of the contents of debug/dri/0
[14:08] <superm1> i dont think we got a gpu dump yet
[14:11] <superm1> can you grab it from wifi again since i've not got console access while it's in crazy state?
[14:11] <superm1> although i wonder if my wifi comes up at that point post resume
[14:12] <jbarnes_BCN> yeah we can get it from ssh
[14:12] <superm1> where ya at?  i'll come to you
[14:12] <jbarnes_BCN> the couch by sala b3
[14:13] <jbarnes_BCN> at the end of the hall
[14:13] <superm1> k, ill come in a few min, just need to send an email
[14:16] <bryce__> jbarnes_BCN: http://tinyurl.com/l3netq
[14:49] <bryce__> 100 papercuts:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LittleDetails
[14:58] <seb128> bryce__: isn't that session starting in 16 minutes ?
[15:56] <tseliot2> jbarnes: ping
[15:56] <tseliot2> or bryce
[18:03] <Spec> Heya...if I want to rebuild (with pbuilder) the xserver-xorg-core package without a specific patch, can I just apt-get source the package, delete the patch, and build it?
[18:05] <Sarvatt> comment it out from debian/patches/series
[18:05] <Spec> i hope i'm not shooting myself in the foot :), thanks.
[18:06] <Sarvatt> which patch?
[18:09] <Spec> Sarvatt: 169_mipointer_nullptr_checks.patch
[18:09] <Spec> I'm wondering if the patch caused an issue I'm seeing now, or if it's just logging the issue and the "workaround" implemented with it doesn't actually solve the problem
[18:10] <Spec> (but it does solve a moar important problem....i just wanna test.)
[18:11] <Spec> I might also remove 166_nullptr_xinerama_keyrepeat.patch
[18:13] <jcristau> what's the problem?
[18:14] <Spec> BUG #324465
[18:14] <Spec> err, no bot?
[18:14] <Spec> wait, sorry, that's a different bug that got fixed
[18:14] <Spec> current bug is BUG #363375
[18:15] <Spec> the mouse "loops" on my fourth monitor sometimes, and I get a lot of error messages in X.org's logfile
[18:43] <Spec> so...the results of the pbuilder are a bunch of .deb files (xdmx, xdmx-tools, xnest, xserver-stuff, xvfb, etc), should I install all of them?
[18:43] <Spec> and to revert dpkg --purge/reinstall w/ apt-get?
[18:44] <jcristau> Spec: just xserver-xorg-core (and -dbg if you want to debug)
[18:45] <Spec> don't know how to debug ;)
[18:45] <Spec> i'll do this later tough, thanks for the help.
[19:53] <Sarvatt> Spec easiest way is to add all your debs to a folder, cd to it and run sudo dpkg-scanpackages . /dev/null | gzip -9c > Packages.gz  and add deb file:/opt/debs/ / to your /etc/apt/sources/list replacing /opt/debs/ with what you picked
[19:53] <Sarvatt> err sorry ignore the >/dev/null, i pasted from my crontab :D
[19:54] <maxb> That is overkill for a single source-package build
[19:54] <maxb> Merely use "sudo debi --upgrade"
[20:13] <Spec> what's wrong with dpkg -i? :p
[20:44] <Ng> hrm, starting to see some rendering corruption after a day or so of the KMS kernel on jaunty with 2.7.1
[20:47] <Ng> now starting to see quite a lot of corruption on widgets
[20:49] <bryce_> hrm
[20:50] <bryce_> Spec: dpkg -i is fine, that's what I always use :-)
[20:50] <bryce_> Ng: hrm
[20:51] <bryce_> Ng: well, <IP_ADDRESS>* is in xorg-edgers and a lot of people are having success running that
[20:51] <bryce_> Ng: is this with compiz?
[20:51] <Ng> yeah
[20:51] <Ng> I'll switch up to edgers I guess :)
[20:58] <Sarvatt> need a kernel upgrade Ng :)
[20:59] <Sarvatt> http://people.ubuntu.com/~apw/jbarnes-karmic/
[21:00] <Sarvatt> was just merged today but that fixes the swap related corruption
[21:01] <Sarvatt> http://anholt.livejournal.com/41132.html
[21:01] <hyperair> ooh cool
[21:03] <Ng> nice
[21:03] <Sarvatt> didnt help theres a big memory leak with 3d compositing enabled making you swap more either
[21:07] <Ng> I have 3GB, I didn't notice any swapping
[21:11] <hyperair> Sarvatt: i noticed that it reduced when i turned on KMS
[21:11] <hyperair> strange eh..
[21:11] <hyperair> i've been able to last up to ~12 hours now without having to restart X
[21:13] <Sarvatt> oh  ya couldn't before? i havent done UXA without KMS in a long time, it was taking about 24 hours before i had to restart when i had compiz on with 1.5gb ram but I guess it all depends on how much you actually do during that time :D
[21:14] <Sarvatt> i just switched to metacity compositing for now till its fixed
[21:14] <hyperair> Sarvatt: not that i couldn't, more like i didn't know how to.
[21:14] <hyperair> then  the email came in the other day to -devel
[21:14] <Sarvatt> 241MB gem obect bytes 241MB gtt bytes right now after 3 days uptime
[21:15] <hyperair> eh that's pretty awesome.
[21:15] <hyperair> so metacity's compositing is better than compiz's huh
[21:15] <hyperair> as in it doesn't leak like crazy
[21:15] <Sarvatt> anholt was saying it was GL compositing doing it in that blog post i linked
[21:16] <hyperair> 833M gem object bytes here, 794M gtt bytes
[21:16] <hyperair> no wait
[21:16] <hyperair> 79M gtt bytes
[21:16] <Sarvatt> your aperture is that big?!
[21:16] <hyperair><PHONE_NUMBER> object bytes
[21:16] <Sarvatt> ahh
[21:16] <hyperair> 79474688 gtt bytes
[21:21]  * Ng reboots into the new kernel and the various -edgers bits
[21:23] <Sarvatt> hyperair, did you try earlier drivers out to see if theres a problem there too? to  be honest i didn't notice the leak until around may 15th (i have 1.5gb ram and dont use swap so it hit hard) and i havent tried earlier drivers out yet since its easier to disable compiz instead of losing all of the bug fixes in the newer drivers
[21:32] <Sarvatt> hyperair: by oh ya couldnt before I meant I didnt know it was worse without KMS, sorry
[21:39] <hyperair> Sarvatt: -2.4 doesn't have it.
[21:39] <hyperair> Sarvatt: i'm pretty sure i didn't see it with 2.5
[21:39] <Sarvatt> wonder if i should up mesa on jaunty in xorg-edgers to 7.6, the fix for 3d rendering on 8xx is only in master
[21:39] <hyperair> though i may be wrong
[21:39] <Sarvatt> oh i meant 2.7 or newer
[21:39] <hyperair> i used that very briefly
[21:40] <hyperair> oh
[21:40] <Sarvatt> 2.7 or 2.7.1
[21:40] <hyperair> everything 2.7 and up has it
[21:40] <hyperair> 2.7.0 had it
[21:40] <hyperair> definitely
[21:40] <hyperair> and 2.7.1
[21:40] <hyperair> and the current master
[21:40] <hyperair> all without KMS
[21:40] <Sarvatt> gotcha, i only used EXA on 2.7.0 and 2.7.1 because its so much faster
[21:40] <hyperair> by current master i meant xorg-edgers' one
[21:40] <hyperair> EXA is faster?
[21:40] <hyperair> O_o
[21:41] <Sarvatt> http://global.phoronix-test-suite.com/index.php?k=profile&u=robert-15508-6884-16319
[21:41] <hyperair> i didn't really experiment with EXA on those, but i'm pretty sure that EXA had the memory leak too
[21:41] <Sarvatt> the 05-09 ones are with driver 2.7.1 even though it says 2.7.0
[21:42] <hyperair> i see.
[21:43] <hyperair> anholt seemed willing to fix it, but only if we can find a minimal test case
[21:43] <hyperair> =\
[21:43] <Sarvatt> someone posted one that works for me, the loop opening and killing firefox
[21:43] <hyperair> is it?
[21:43] <hyperair> hmm
[21:43] <Sarvatt> on the bug report, he saw it
[21:43] <hyperair> i see
[21:44] <hyperair> i actually have a patched drm which disables BO caching
[21:44] <hyperair> took the one from your PPA and patched the figure from 14 to 0
[21:44] <hyperair> some #define there
[21:44] <hyperair> that one lets the memory drop a little if you close firefox