[01:23] <tgm4883> im having some trouble grasping the difference between a release and a milestone
[01:24] <tgm4883> it seems like if we wanted to have an alpha version of our project, would that be a milestone?
[01:25] <tgm4883> or would milestones only be used as a basis for when we want to have something done, and then make a release when we officially release the alpha
[02:05] <mthaddon> tgm4883: that's how I understand the difference (what you said last)
[02:06] <tgm4883> thanks mthaddon
[02:06] <tgm4883> i think were getting a little better organized now, instead of having every bug and blueprint all fall under 1 category
[02:10] <tgm4883> mthaddon, your a launchpad admin, correct?
[02:10] <mthaddon> yep
[02:11] <tgm4883> are launchpad admins only able to remove a release or series from a project?
[02:12] <tgm4883> we don't seem to be able to, we were trying a few different things and would like to remove some of these items as they are incorrect
[02:12] <mthaddon> I think the process is for you to file a new "question" here https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion asking for it to be removed and then I can take care of it
[02:13] <tgm4883> ah
[02:13] <tgm4883> i'll go ahead and ask there, i have one more question if you have the time
[02:13] <mthaddon> sure
[02:14] <tgm4883> I noticed that launchpad also list distrobutions, is there a way to become a distrobution
[02:15] <mthaddon> I'm not sure what the best way to do that is - best to try and catch kiko when he's not afk and he should be able to help you
[02:15] <tgm4883> ah thank you
[02:16] <tgm4883> i will file that other question now
[02:16] <mthaddon> cool
[02:18] <tgm4883> the question is located here https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/11188
[02:19] <mthaddon> cool, I should be able to get to that tomorrow - thx
[02:19] <tgm4883> thank you
[02:30] <kauai> hi, um.  I did something real stupid and committed a file I didn't want to... how can I remove it entirely?
[02:44] <kauai> anyone
[02:45] <tgm4883> kauai, you could ask the question here https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion, thats where I had to ask to get a series removed from a project
[03:00] <kiko-afk> kauai, just bzr rm it and commit again?
[03:01] <kauai> yeah, but then it's still visible in the old revisions right?
[03:01] <kauai> I want it removed forever
[03:01] <kauai> is this possible?
[03:01] <Spads> perhaps uncommit?
[03:02] <kauai> Spads, thanks, I will look into it... sorry all of this is all new to me
[03:03] <Spads> kauai: #bzr may be a better place to ask questions like this
[03:03] <kiko-afk> uncommit and then push, yeah
[03:05] <kiko-afk> RAOF, seems like it goes to sleep every time this time? :)
[03:05] <kiko-afk> cprov-out, you know what's up?
[03:05] <RAOF> I've got some queued builds, and the buildds are idle, but there's no building happening :)
[03:06] <kiko-afk> I wonder why this is happening. did you write to launchpad-users cc: cprov RAOF?
[03:06] <RAOF> kiko-afk: No, actually.  This is a new problem, the other one got resolved :)
[03:06] <kiko-afk> RAOF, what was it yesterday?
[03:07] <RAOF> kiko-afk: The builds weren't queuing.
[03:07] <RAOF> Now a new package is queued, but isn't being sent to the buildd.
[03:08] <kiko-afk> how was it solved?
[03:09] <RAOF> I'm not sure, actually.  It just started working again.
[03:09] <RAOF> I hadn't got around to writing the lp email, and it got fixed before I did.
[03:11] <kiko-afk> odd.
[03:11] <kiko-afk> it sounds to me like a similar problem
[03:21] <cprov-out> RAOF: dogfood is back on track again
[03:22] <cprov-out> RAOF: sorry for the inconvenience.
[03:23] <RAOF> cprov-out: That's ok.  Beta code, testing, it's hardly mission critical :)
[03:23] <RAOF> cprov-out: Thanks :)
[03:24] <cprov-out> RAOF: the problem is not the PPA code, since yesterday we have other parts under test in the same environment.
[03:25] <RAOF> Oh?  What is/was the problem?
[03:27] <cprov-out> RAOF: builders were configured to only build packages target to ubuntu primary archive, not PPAs (Trusted/Untrusted builder state)
[03:27] <RAOF> Oh, whoops :)
[03:28] <cprov-out> https://dogfood.launchpad.net/+builds/rubidium/, for instance (letf portlet)
[03:29] <cprov-out> RAOF: yes, big whoops. You are more than welcome to ping me if anything strange is happening with PPA-beta, I will be able to help you.
[03:30] <RAOF> cprov-out: Thanks.  Do you prefer here or lp-users ML?
[03:31] <cprov-out> RAOF: whatever suits better to you, usually IRC is faster than email, but some question should fit better in the ML
[03:31] <RAOF> Fair enough.  Now, to fix my nouveau build.  I suck :)
[03:31] <cprov-out> RAOF: looking forward to see "Nouveau Xorg driver" coming out of PPA :)
[03:31] <RAOF> Thanks again
[03:32] <cprov-out> g'night, guys
[04:14] <_Poseidon_> Good evening
[05:40] <jkakar> Where do I find the link to create a new milestone for a project?
[08:25] <ubotu> New bug: #131231 in malone "Timeout is occurring frequently with "short" queries" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131231
[08:57] <carlos> morning
[08:59] <Hobbsee_> morning carlos!
[09:18] <Kuhrscher> carlos, danilos: Good morning. I just noticed that dolphin is not translateable via Launchpad, although it is in "main".
[09:19] <Kuhrscher> carlos, danilos: This is propabably not correct ;-)
[09:19] <Hobbsee> you should probably check the upstream kde translation for that
[09:20] <Hobbsee> why translate it only for kubuntu?
[09:20] <Kuhrscher> It is translated upstream ;-)
[09:20] <Kuhrscher> The translation is only missing for Ubuntu ;-)
[09:21] <Kuhrscher> If an app is in "main" it gets its translations via the langpacks generated from Rosetta or there won't be any translation.
[09:23] <Kuhrscher> Hobbsee: Dolphin's upstream translations did not find their way to Rosetta, so they are missing just for Kubuntu. For other distributions everything is alright.
[09:23] <Kuhrscher> Hobbsee: But generally you are absolutely right :)
[09:23] <Hobbsee> ah right.  i wonder why they didnt
[09:24] <danilos> carlos, Kuhrscher: it seems to be due to dolphin rename to d3lphin
[09:24] <carlos> danilos: I got the unapproved .pot files
[09:24] <carlos> Kuhrscher: thanks for the warning
[09:25] <Kuhrscher> carlos, No problem. Thanks for your quick response.
[09:27] <Kuhrscher> Hobbsee: There is also they way around. KMplayer switched from main to universe. Before it got its translations via the langpacks generated from the Rosetta translations. Now it _should_ use just the packaged upstream translations, but these are missing in the Ubuntu package. So KMplayer is untranslated for now, but only in Kubuntu. I filed a bug about this issue some month ago...
[09:28] <Hobbsee> Kuhrscher: bug #?
[09:28] <Kuhrscher> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/123544
[09:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 123544 in kmplayer "Kmplayer Package does not contain translations" [Undecided,New]
[09:30] <carlos> Kuhrscher: the only solution for that is a package rebuild
[09:31] <Hobbsee> carlos: just that?  no need to remove the "export stuff to rosetta" stuff?
[09:32] <Kuhrscher> carlos, Hobbsee: The mplayer entries are still in Rosetta...
[09:32] <carlos> Hobbsee: well.. that's also something interesting to do, but not a must to get it using directly what comes from the package itself
[09:32] <Hobbsee> carlos: right.  so there's no net loss in leaving that stuff in there?
[09:33] <carlos> well, removing it helps that translators focus on useful information
[09:34] <Kuhrscher> carlos, Hobbsee: I just hope it will get its package rebuild with included translations before the release of Gutsy ;-)
[09:34] <carlos> Kuhrscher: I see kmplayer as still being in main
[09:34] <carlos> in fact
[09:35] <carlos> it was moved back from universe to main 4 days ago
[09:35] <carlos> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu//+source/kmplayer/
[09:35] <Kuhrscher> Ahh, right
[09:35] <Kuhrscher> I didn't checked that again.
[09:35] <Hobbsee> carlos: wonder why it got demoted, then.
[09:36] <Kuhrscher> Ok, so this issue should be fixed with the next langpack, right?
[09:36] <carlos> Kuhrscher: yes, next language pack rebuild should include its translations again
[09:36] <carlos> Kuhrscher: it should be a base rebuild
[09:37] <Hobbsee> carlos: just checking - so kmplayer, etc, doesnt need to be touched?
[09:37] <carlos> Hobbsee: what do you mean about 'doesn't need to be touched' ?
[09:37] <carlos> rebuilt? or translated?
[09:37] <Hobbsee> carlos: rebuilt, sorry
[09:37] <carlos> Hobbsee: no, no need to rebuild it again
[09:37] <Hobbsee> great )
[09:38] <Kuhrscher> Ok, thank you everybody :)
[09:38] <carlos> Kuhrscher: you are welcome
[09:39] <RAOF> cprov-ZzZ: For your enjoyment when you awake, try !nouveau :)
[10:59] <head_victim> I'm having problems importing a pgp key into launchpad. It keeps telling me it cannot import it and tells me to check 3 things. I have done everything as it suggests and I even query the database and it's been there over 12 hours. Is this long enough or should I just wait to see if it works tomorrow?
[11:31] <ubotu> New bug: #131258 in malone "Pagetests should use the test browser" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131258
[11:44] <Hobbsee> mrevell: OOPS-586D1018
[11:44] <ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/586D1018
[11:45] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Thanks :) I'm still getting an error on that so I'll check it.
[11:45] <Hobbsee> mrevell: it's basically from searching for a word on a list of bugs.
[11:46] <Hobbsee> mrevell: the URL in particular for that is https://bugs.launchpad.net/~gothicx/?field.searchtext=sync&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=New&field.status%3Alist=Incomplete&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=Triaged&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=
[11:46] <Hobbsee> but i assume you can see that
[11:46] <mrevell> head_victim: Apologies for not spotting your question earlier. Let me see if I can get some help for you.
[11:48] <mrevell> Hobbsee: List of bugs such as https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=New&field.status%3Alist=Incomplete&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=Triaged&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=
[11:51] <head_victim> Thats ok, I've never played with keys much before and I'm pretty sure I've done everything exactly as described. It does say it can take up to an hour or so to make sure it's mirrored correctly but it's been a lot longer than that.
[11:53] <Hobbsee> mrevell: i cant seem to make that one oops
[11:54] <mrevell> head_victim: Another user had a similar problem last week and one of the LP developers had to manually fix insert the user's key. It looks as though the person I need to speak to (who is in Brazil) isn't online yet. I'll ping him when he comes online. What's your LP username?
[11:55] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Hmm. So, the problem is that when you have a list of bugs and perform a search within that list, sometimes you get an OOPS? Is there a bug report yet?
[11:55] <Hobbsee> mrevell: correct, and no idea.  i havent filed one
[11:55] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Okay, thanks. How many bug lists have you found this problem on? Just the gothicx one above or on others?
[11:56] <head_victim> mrevell, Jared Norris is the display name.
[11:56] <Hobbsee> mrevell: various others. unfortunately, i didnt keep the oops numbers.  various others are having this too
[11:56] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Sorry that you're experiencing the problem. Thanks for letting me know. I shall file a bug and raise it in today's meeting. Cheers :)
[11:57] <Hobbsee> mrevell: thanks
[11:57] <mrevell> head_victim: Thanks. I'll email my colleague and ask him to take a look. He may contact you directly, his name is salgado.
[11:57] <head_victim> No worries, should I idle in here or is it enough that I am in other channels on the network?
[12:08] <mrevell> head_victim: If you could private message me with your email address, I'll get back to you using that, so you don't have to wait around here.
[12:09] <head_victim> mrevell, thank you for your assistance tonight it has been appreciated.
[12:10] <mrevell> head_victim: No problem :)
[12:36] <Hobbsee> mrevell: i must be a muppet.
[12:36] <Hobbsee> mrevell: surely, i must be a muppet.  launchpad wouldnt do this
[12:36] <Hobbsee> mrevell: to prove my muppetry, please tell me where the "view the bugs" sectoin is on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-winfoss/
[12:37] <mrevell> Hobbsee: You press the "Search" button with an empty search box and it shows you all the related bugs
[12:38] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Why do you think you're a muppet? :)
[12:38] <Hobbsee> mrevell: because i didnt think that launchpad could possibly have hidden the "view the bugs" button.  i knew i probably wasnt finding it
[12:39] <BjornT> Hobbsee: or, you look at the right, and click on "List all open bugs", which is right above the "Report a bug" button.
[12:39] <Hobbsee> mrevell: can i just say that that's *really* not intuitave.
[12:39] <Hobbsee> ohhhhhh....there it is
[12:39] <Hobbsee> that's moved
[12:39] <mrevell> BjornT: I wonder if that link could be more prominent. Perhaps a button. What do you think?
[12:39] <Hobbsee> mrevell: why is that right beneath, and in the same section as, the summary of bugs?
[12:40] <mrevell> Hobbsee: I don't know the exact reason but I can find out.
[12:40] <Hobbsee> the attention there is on report a bug or ask a question - there really should be a "view the bugs", or something button there
[12:46] <BjornT> mrevell: i don't think a button is good to use here, since it's not really an action. maybe rename the "Search" button to make it more obvious that you don't have to enter a search string, or something.
[12:47] <BjornT> Hobbsee, mrevell: mpt can probably tell you why the 'list all open bugs' link was moved.
[12:48] <mrevell> BjornT: My expectation would be to see the bug list when you visit that page by default, without having to click anything. The fact that there isn't a button to list all open bugs means that the option is almost hidden behind the prominence of the "Report a bug" and "Ask a question" buttons.
[12:48] <Hobbsee> BjornT: if people who have used LP for ages, and are fairly fluent in LPesque cant find simple things like how to view bugs, then clearly your approach is wrong.  new users arent going to have a hope in hell of finding them.
[12:49] <Hobbsee> mrevell: yes, it does promote the idea of "report bugs without searching"
[12:49] <Hobbsee> i'm not sure why they're saying "report a bug" first -because clearly you should search before you report
[12:51] <BjornT> Hobbsee: well, i think one reason for you not finding the link, is that you expected the link to be somewhere else, and you didn't expect it to have been moved to that place.
[12:51] <BjornT> Hobbsee: although, i do agree that the link should be more prominent
[12:52] <Hobbsee> BjornT: this is true
[12:52] <Hobbsee> BjornT: i then and went and looked for a likely looking link, and found nothing.
[12:52] <pcardune> (somewhat OT) speaking of bugs, I'm looking for a way to put in the "fix committed" message a link to the precise revision in which the fix was committed.  I like Trac's "r78" syntax.  I looked for this feature in LP but could not find it?
[12:54] <mwhudson> pcardune: you mean a codebrowse link?
[12:55] <pcardune> mwhudson: yes... it might be nice to have src:branchname:revnumber or something to that effect
[12:57] <mwhudson> what would be even nicer is bzr ci --fixes support
[12:58] <mwhudson> so that when a revision that has been annotated to be fixing a bug gets merged into trunk, the bug automatically flips over into "fix committed" and a link added
[12:59] <mwhudson> there is work towards this sort of thing being done
[01:00] <pcardune> that would really be quite awesome indeed.  But still I there should be a way to link easily to something that has already been committed.  In case you forget to use --fixes
[01:01] <mwhudson> yes
[01:01] <mwhudson> file a bug? :)
[01:01] <mwhudson> i'm not aware of any existing bugs like this
[01:02] <pcardune> ok, will do
[01:02] <pcardune> I just wanted to see if it was yet another "undocumented" feature (those pop up every now and then)
[01:25] <ubotu> New bug: #131279 in launchpad "Easily link to codebrowse interface from bug reports" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131279
[03:02] <mrevell> Hobbsee: ping
[03:02] <Hobbsee> mrevell: pong
[03:03] <mrevell> hey Hobbsee - I've just tried that bug search again and it seems to be working to me.
[03:05] <Hobbsee> mrevell: hmm.  seems it only doesnt work some of the time
[03:05] <Hobbsee> mrevell: i cant reproduce it now, either, but i have been able to earlier...
[03:05] <Hobbsee> mrevell: we didnt have a code change, have we?
[03:05] <Hobbsee> (seems like a random thing)
[03:06] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Yeah, me too. I'll report nonetheless. I can't see any cherrypicks that fix it, so AFAIK nothing has changed that could fix this between when we were talking earlier and now.
[03:08] <Hobbsee> mrevell: right
[03:21] <mrevell> Hobbsee: How long has the bug search problem been around?
[03:22] <Hobbsee> mrevell: couple of weeks, maybe?
[03:22] <mrevell> Hobbsee: thanks
[03:23] <mrevell> Hobbsee: bug 131299
[03:23] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 131299 in malone "Searching from a user's bug page sometimes results in an OOPS" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131299
[03:31] <ubotu> New bug: #131299 in malone "Searching from a user's bug page sometimes results in an OOPS" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131299
[03:56] <mwhudson> m
[03:56] <gmb> mwhudson: mmm?
[03:57] <mwhudson> i wonder if i have time to make coffee before the meeting gets going...
[03:57] <gmb> Better get started.
[04:00] <SteveA> Hello!
[04:00] <SteveA> Welcome to this week's Launchpad development meeting.
[04:00] <SteveA> For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating about Launchpad development.
[04:00] <SteveA> Who is here today?
[04:00] <bigjools> me
[04:00] <jtv> me
[04:00] <intellectronica> me
[04:00] <EdwinGrubbs> me
[04:00] <gmb> me
[04:00] <mpt> me
[04:00] <BjornT> me
[04:00] <adeuring> me
[04:00] <ddaa> me
[04:00] <mrevell> me
[04:00] <SteveA>  - Barry sends apologies.
[04:00] <bac> me
[04:00] <jsk> me
[04:00] <schwuk> me
[04:00] <sinzui> me
[04:01] <danilos> me
[04:01] <salgado> me
[04:01] <mthaddon> me
[04:01] <mwhudson> me
[04:01] <danilos> carlos: you?
[04:01] <cprov> me
[04:01] <matsubara> me
[04:01] <carlos> me
[04:02] <stub> me
[04:02] <Rinchen> me
[04:02] <SteveA> anyone see a team-mate missing?
[04:02] <BjornT> allenap: ping - meeting time
[04:02] <allenap> me
[04:02] <statik> me
[04:03] <allenap> BjornT: thanks
[04:03] <jamesh> me
[04:03] <SteveA> == Agenda ==
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Roll call
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Agenda
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Next meeting
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Bug tags
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Operations report (mthaddon)
[04:03] <SteveA>  * DBA report (stub)
[04:04] <SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
[04:04] <SteveA>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
[04:04] <SteveA> ----
[04:04] <SteveA>  (other items)
[04:04] <SteveA> ----
[04:04] <SteveA>  * Blockers
[04:04] <SteveA>
[04:04] <SteveA> Next meeting: same time next week please.
[04:04] <SteveA> Anyone know in advance that they'll be unable to be at that meeting?
[04:04] <kiko-zzz> me
[04:04] <BjornT> i won't attend next week's meeting
[04:04] <SteveA> kiko: you won't be at teh meeting? or you're belatedly here?
[04:04] <kiko> I'm belatedly here
[04:04] <SteveA> cool
[04:05] <SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
[04:05] <SteveA> there were no actions
[04:05] <SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[04:05] <matsubara> Today's oops report is about bug 131299
[04:05] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 131299 in malone "Searching from a user's bug page sometimes results in an OOPS" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131299
[04:05] <kiko> is this a performance oops, matsubara?
[04:05] <kiko> BjornT, so, I'm REALLY concerned that +bugs is timing out all over the shop
[04:06] <matsubara> kiko: seems so
[04:06] <kiko> BjornT, the interesting this is that this ties in to bigjools message this morning :)
[04:06] <mpt> I get bug search timeouts fairly often, not just from person pages
[04:06] <mwhudson> me too
[04:06] <kiko> same here
[04:06] <matsubara> I'm running some explain analyze on staging and the offending query is taking a long time
[04:06] <kiko> this did not happen two cycles ago
[04:06] <kiko> so what's happening
[04:06] <SteveA> is this a side-effect of switching back to the old index implementation?
[04:06] <mwhudson> well, we changed indexes this weekend, is that part of it?
[04:06] <kiko> I don't /think/ so
[04:07] <BjornT> kiko: me too. i'll take a look at it today to see if i can find something obvious.
[04:07] <kiko> does anyone know if it's a too-many-queries or a too-expensive-query problem?
[04:07] <SteveA> so... I want to take a step back for a minute
[04:07] <BjornT> kiko: it's a too-expensive-query problem
[04:07] <kiko> BjornT, I can spend some time trying later today too, so send your findings and I can help continue
[04:07] <danilos> in my tests (not directly related to this), gin indexes proved to be 2-3 times faster than gist indexes on FTI fields
[04:07] <matsubara> the oopses shows a too expensive query
[04:07] <SteveA> when we get timeout OOPS reports, what do we do about it?
[04:08] <SteveA> how do we investigate it
[04:08] <danilos> jtv, now is the time for you to chip in ;)
[04:08] <SteveA> I have a feeling, (and this is just an impression,) that we kind of invent how we approach this afresh, each time we get a critical OOPS that isn't a Rosetta OOPS
[04:08] <SteveA> the Rosetta ones being a longer-term issue
[04:08] <jtv> danilos: do I _look_ like a database person?
[04:09] <danilos> jtv: no, but you are the one who has most recently worked on those sorts of problems, afaik
[04:09] <SteveA> jtv: I appreciate your insightful comments whenever database issues come up on the mailing list
[04:09] <SteveA> so, perhaps a few of us can get together after this meeting
[04:09] <SteveA> and work out how best to approach this kind of OOPS
[04:09] <SteveA> so that we'll have a good system for it, and for knowing our options, when the next one comes up
[04:10] <kiko> okay
[04:10] <kiko> sounds good
[04:10] <jtv> ack
[04:10] <SteveA> BjornT, jtv, stub, jamesh, me... kiko if you're interested
[04:10] <jamesh> okay
[04:10] <SteveA> and I'd like mthaddon to contribute too
[04:10] <mthaddon> ok
[04:10] <kiko> I am interested
[04:11] <SteveA> we can use the slot after this meeting, normally reserved for an infrastructure team conf call
[04:11] <BjornT> sure
[04:11] <SteveA> Rinchen: I'll discuss the outcome of this with you after the meeting.  You needn't be there, as I'm sure you have lots and lots of other things to do :-)
[04:12] <Rinchen> Great and many thanks :-)
[04:12] <SteveA> matsubara: back to you.  thanks for letting me interrupt.
[04:12] <bigjools> BjornT: we'll have to change the time for our call then
[04:12] <matsubara> SteveA: actually that's the only oops, so back to you again. :-) thanks!
[04:12] <SteveA> matsubara: okay.  although I saw many rosetta oopses, as usual.
[04:13] <BjornT> bigjools: yes, let's aim for 1600 UTC?
[04:13] <bigjools> BjornT: +1
[04:13] <matsubara> that's already known. no point bring it up again. jtv is on it.
[04:13] <SteveA> do we have a list of "unfortunately expected" rosetta oopses, and the quantity we expect them in?
[04:13] <jtv> SteveA: I keep track, it's a short list
[04:14] <SteveA> jtv: please put something up on a wiki page, when convenient
[04:14] <SteveA> matsubara: done, thanks
[04:14] <kiko> pizza is thicker than blood
[04:14] <jtv> SteveA: ok
[04:14] <SteveA>  * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
[04:14] <Rinchen> Howdy. Two for today: carlos, status for Bug 56820 please.  Also, Bug 131043 is unassigned. SteveA did you intend jamesh to take this one on?
[04:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 56820 in rosetta "Po export script is not robust enough" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/56820 - Assigned to Carlos Perell Marn (carlos)
[04:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 131043 in launchpad "database adapter serialisation tests disabled" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131043
[04:14] <bigjools> pizza is tastier than blood
[04:14] <stub> stop making me hungry you twats
[04:15] <carlos> Rinchen: hmm, we are supposed to change the that priority to high
[04:15] <kiko> Rinchen, thanks for pointing out the export script oops. that's one which is really awful
[04:15] <jtv> stub: come on, it's Ronny's, just around the corner from you & you can even order in Dutch
[04:15] <carlos> s/the that/that/
[04:15] <kiko> I'm inclined to even keep it at critical to make it get fixed
[04:15] <kiko> I mean, us only finding out it's broken because tom fished it out of -error-reports?
[04:15] <carlos> kiko: that's a different oops
[04:16] <jamesh> Rinchen: it isn't clear how to fix bug 131043 -- by my understanding, the root cause is a design fault in psycopg1
[04:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 131043 in launchpad "database adapter serialisation tests disabled" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131043
[04:16] <kiko> is it?
[04:16] <stub> That is sort of tom's job - monitoring that stuff
[04:16] <carlos> kiko: yes
[04:16] <kiko> stub, I kinda expect developers to monitor /their/ parts of production.
[04:16] <stub> And the monitoring picked it up (yay)
[04:16] <matsubara> kiko: no, we found out because the script monitoring alerted us.
[04:16] <kiko> -error-reports isn't really a very good monitoring facility
[04:16] <mpt> kiko, a bug's scheduling may depend on its importance, but its importance does not depend on it scheduling :-)
[04:16] <kiko> heh
[04:16] <SteveA> jamesh: should we switch to psycopg2?
[04:17] <carlos> kiko: although I agree that the other oops should be fixed, but it depends on danilo, jeroen or me doing a bad approval so it's not so critical (but important, yes)
[04:17] <kiko> good point
[04:17] <kiko> carlos, the fact that the whole script blows up is pretty bad, isn't it?
[04:17] <SteveA> jamesh: please put your thoughts about what the root cause is as a comment in that bug report
[04:17] <carlos> kiko: indeed, we already talked about move to use OOPs infrastructure for scripts during the sprint in Alicante
[04:17] <kiko> nice!
[04:17] <jamesh> SteveA: the problem appears to exist in psycopg2 as well, but should be a lot easier to fix there.
[04:17] <jamesh> SteveA: I'll add my analysis
[04:18] <SteveA> jamesh: does the author of psycopg2 know about the problem?
[04:18] <Rinchen> kiko, are you ok with us downgrading that to High but having carlos attempt to fix it during this current cycle?
[04:18] <stub> I  think we should switch to psycopg2 on the storm branch. psycopg1 is no longer maintained (well... apart from the patches Ubuntu devs do)
[04:18] <SteveA> is there a bug we can link to in their bug tracker?
[04:18] <jamesh> SteveA: I filed a bug report about it, but have not had a response from him yet
[04:18] <SteveA> is there a linnk to that bug report in our launchpad bug?
[04:18] <statik> jamesh: I haven't heard any response about the psycopg2 bug I filed either, I was wondering if upstream is alive
[04:18] <jamesh> I'll link the bug too
[04:19] <SteveA> thanks
[04:19] <Rinchen> kiko, are you ok with us downgrading that to High but having carlos attempt to fix it during this current cycle?
[04:19] <kiko> yes
[04:19] <Rinchen> thanks
[04:19] <jamesh> statik: yeah.  there hasn't been any activity in SVN since the 2.0.6 release
[04:20] <kiko> (Rinchen, I am overreacting. it's not the end of the world)
[04:20] <SteveA> jamesh: is the test that intermittently fails due to that bug diabled ?
[04:20] <jtv> Rinchen: this current cycle is "tomorrow," no?
[04:20] <Rinchen> SteveA, we still need an owner for that bug.  Seems jamesh might be the right person. Do you agree?
[04:20] <jamesh> SteveA: yes
[04:20] <kiko> it's not only disabled, it's diabled!
[04:20] <SteveA> jamesh: ok.  is the launchpad bug referenced in the text to the diabled bug?
[04:20] <jamesh> SteveA: yes
[04:20] <Rinchen> jtv, yes that's a very good point.
[04:20] <SteveA> jamesh: great, thanks
[04:21] <jtv> and carlos isn't exactly picknicking right now...
[04:21] <jamesh> SteveA: actually, the bug reference is next to the place where the bug was disabled rather than in the doctest itself
[04:21] <kiko> Rinchen, jtv: not if it's a critical bugfix
[04:21] <kiko> it can be done later. but it can't be big.
[04:21] <jtv> and it can't be "High"..?
[04:21] <kiko> the test was diabled, not the bug
[04:22] <carlos> right, it should be a fast fix
[04:22] <SteveA> the whole doctest was diabled, and not just the failing portion of it?
[04:22] <Rinchen> carlos, jtv - go a head an downgrade it to HIGH but please attempt to get the fix out quickly
[04:22] <mwhudson> i think the failing portion was copied to a new file and that file disabled
[04:22] <Rinchen> yikes... "go ahead and"
[04:22] <carlos> Rinchen: ok
[04:22] <kiko> SteveA, yeah, I'm not sure why jamesh did that.
[04:23] <jamesh> SteveA: I moved the failing portion into its own doctest, since it was doctest it was in had grown a fair bit
[04:23] <kiko> mpt, you ignore me.
[04:23] <mpt> what?
[04:23] <kiko> mpt, what what?
[04:23] <mpt> I ignore you when?
[04:23] <jamesh> I didn't disable unrelated tests
[04:23] <SteveA> ok, you performed bug chiropody on an ingrown doctest
[04:23] <kiko> mpt, when I privmsg.
[04:24] <mpt> kiko, ah, apparently I'm unregistered
[04:24] <SteveA> freenode is lame like that
[04:25] <stub> But you don't need to privmsg using freenode, and probably shouldn't...
[04:25] <jtv> statik: no, not while you're recovering
[04:25] <SteveA> I asked that NickServ would actually talk to you, privmsg, to say "your message isnt' being delivered because..."
[04:25] <SteveA> instead, there's just some server message that most irc clients don't show prominently at all
[04:25] <kiko> SteveA, I think it does but you can't have a server tab or it goes there
[04:25] <mpt> It's not confidential, just personal, and anyway, problem solved
[04:26] <mpt> Sorry for disturbing the meeting
[04:26] <kiko> exactly
[04:26] <kiko> what mpt said
[04:26] <SteveA> kiko: I meant a proper /msg from nickserv.  it does it on other occassions, so the code is there.
[04:26] <kiko> yeah
[04:26] <kiko> what's next?
[04:27] <SteveA> Rinchen: done with bugs?
[04:27] <SteveA>  * Bug tags
[04:27] <SteveA> none proposed
[04:27] <Rinchen> SteveA, yes thanks
[04:27] <SteveA>  * Operations report (mthaddon)
[04:27] <mthaddon> edge is now using the devel branch
[04:27] <mthaddon> bzr 0.18 has been upgraded
[04:27] <mthaddon> will be working on adding loggerhead into RF today
[04:27] <kiko> mthaddon, you rock! but what about edge-redirects?
[04:27] <mthaddon> that's it from me for the moment unless there are any questions
[04:28] <kiko> I am unhappy that that didn't get done this week
[04:28] <kiko> not really unhappy but say 60%
[04:28] <mthaddon> kiko: been delayed a bit since we decided to switch the branch we're using, but the week's not over yet
[04:28] <mthaddon> kiko: we have to change the branch that's being synchronized to all the production servers
[04:28] <mthaddon> I have an RT ticket in to do that
[04:28] <kiko> mthaddon, oh, sorry, the branch switching was much lower priority than the auto-redirect
[04:29] <kiko> maybe we can delay that?
[04:29] <SteveA> I don't see daily oops summaries about edge.
[04:29] <SteveA> am I missing something?
[04:29] <kiko> I didn't mean to imly it was urgent
[04:29] <matsubara> I can arrange that
[04:29] <stub> You don't need to change the branch that is being synced - you could just change the job that builds rocketfuel-built/edge to use launchpad/devel instead of the edge branch
[04:29] <mthaddon> kiko: but we can't auto-redirect until we move edge off asuka, so it's all part of the app server reconfig project
[04:30] <SteveA> you mean we can't auto-redirect cos we're worried about load?
[04:30] <mthaddon> stub: I did think about doing that, but it was decided that we wanted to use devel itself, not overwrite edge with devel
[04:30] <SteveA> I thought we'd done a day or week's test of that
[04:30] <SteveA> and it was fine
[04:30] <mthaddon> SteveA: yes
[04:30] <kiko> SteveA, a day's test and it was, tbh
[04:30] <kiko> but..
[04:30] <SteveA> I still think we should reconfigure the app servers
[04:30] <SteveA> but it needn't block continuing to use edge on asuka
[04:31] <kiko> what do people think?
[04:31] <mthaddon> ok, if you're okay with it, I can set up the edge redirect and continue working on app server reconfig
[04:31] <SteveA> I don't really know everything that's involved, so I don't want to make a lot of extra work for people
[04:31] <stub> asuka becomes unusable for a couple of hours a day when staging is rebuilding
[04:31] <stub> So I'd be -1
[04:32] <mthaddon> yeah, that was my main concern - DB rebuild on asuka really slows things down
[04:32] <SteveA> do we need staging to rebuild every day?
[04:32] <kiko> mthaddon, how's the reconfig looking?
[04:32] <kiko> I mean, will it be done by tomorrow?
[04:32] <kiko> (no pressure, just a question)
[04:32] <SteveA> maybe we can stop staging rebuilding until we finish the reconfiguration
[04:32] <danilos> I'd love to have staging available for testing rollouts
[04:33] <mthaddon> kiko: just need the devel code sync-ed to the production servers so I can set up edge (that's the first stage) - the entire project won't be done by the end of the week
[04:33] <stub> We need staging rebuilding every day during db thaw. Other than that probably not.
[04:33] <mthaddon> kiko: but I'll see what I can do about getting it done for the edge setup by the end of the week
[04:34] <kiko> okay
[04:34] <SteveA> ok, all done
[04:34] <SteveA> ?
[04:34] <kiko> let's talk again tomorrow mthaddon
[04:34] <mthaddon> kiko: sure
[04:34] <kiko> thanks.
[04:34] <SteveA> thanks mthaddon
[04:34] <SteveA>  * DBA report (stub)
[04:34] <stub> DB patch review call with Mark has been rescheduled for tomorrow, so there may be some hope for people who tried to sneak their branches in after the deadline.
[04:34] <stub> Downtime on Sunday went smoothly.
[04:34] <stub> Nothing else to report.
[04:34] <SteveA> thanks stub
[04:35] <SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
[04:35] <Rinchen> matsubara, I haven't seen any status on your rt ticket. I've given the requisite amount of time for it's completion so I'll attempt to get that closed this week on your behalf.
[04:35] <Rinchen> Anyone else blocked on RT tickets?
[04:35] <kiko> hang on
[04:35] <SteveA> kiko: after Rinchen's item is finished
[04:35] <kiko> stub, the last time we did some DB maintenence the number of OOPSes went down a lot
[04:35] <matsubara> thanks Rinchen. I've received your email about the time constraint.
[04:35] <kiko> I am curious as to why this didn't happen this time
[04:35] <kiko> SteveA, you have to wait for people to ask questions or else it's not a meeting :)
[04:35] <danilos> kiko: wasn't that gist -> gin, and now reverse, gin -> gist
[04:35] <jtv> kiko: in rosetta's case, a performance regression that had been held up because staging wasn't rebuilding
[04:36] <stub> kiko: Last time we did DB maintenance we did it because we had massive bloat in one particular table that was causing a lot of OOPSes.
[04:36] <jtv> kiko: nm, that's staging, sorry
[04:36] <kiko> danilos, no, I am referring to something we did a year ago to improve bug search performance
[04:36] <kiko> stub, that's correct
[04:36] <kiko> stub, and there was no bloating this time?
[04:36] <mwhudson> Rinchen: jml is waiting on 28580
[04:36] <Rinchen> thank mwhudson I'll go after that as well
[04:36] <SteveA> kiko: the bloat was caused by bad start-up code in launchpad
[04:36] <stub> kiko: Not much bloat. Bloat on the POMsgSet table was the worst, so things might have improved on the Rosetta end if bloat was an issue.
[04:36] <SteveA> kiko: stub fixed that code
[04:37] <kiko> really?
[04:37] <stub> kiko: Although I suspect bloat not an issue in that particular case (as the table would have still been generally packed, just bloated with a load of unused space at one end)
[04:37] <kiko> are SteveA and stub talking about the same thing? :)
[04:37] <danilos> doesn't sound like it, no :)
[04:38] <kiko> stub, thanks.
[04:38] <kiko> okay that clears up my questions
[04:38] <stub> kiko: Elsewhere there was bloat, but just normal and I don't think it was a major contributer to OOPSes
[04:38] <SteveA> kiko: didn't know you cared ;-)
[04:38] <SteveA>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
[04:39] <mrevell> The user-affecting issue I was planning to talk about this week has already been discussed in Matsubara's OOPS report - i.e. the intermittment timeout problem when searching bugs.
[04:39] <mrevell> I've reported this as bug 131299, as mentioned in Matsubara's OOPS report.
[04:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 131299 in malone "Bug searches often time out" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131299
[04:39] <mrevell> I won't paste my original report, as it's all been covered already. However, I did want to ask if this problem is related to bug 107722.
[04:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 107722 in launchpad "Improve accuracy of database timeouts" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107722 - Assigned to Stuart Bishop (stub)
[04:39] <mrevell> Apologies for the now redundant report; I didn't think it would get raised before my part of the meeting.
[04:39] <mrevell> Thank you, back to you SteveA.
[04:39] <kiko> hmmm
[04:40] <SteveA> could be related, in the sense that a request could take up to twice as long as it ought to have been able to
[04:40] <stub> It could be related. Previously pages could take up to timeout*2 seconds to actually timeout.
[04:40] <kiko> hmmmm
[04:40] <kiko> I see!
[04:40] <SteveA> nonetheless, the bug searches timing out is an issue now
[04:40] <kiko> we could try increasing time out times
[04:40] <kiko> has anyone considered that? or would it make the system unbearably slow?
[04:40] <SteveA> stub, mthaddon: what's the current hard timeout in production?
[04:41] <matsubara> SteveA: 25000
[04:41] <SteveA> 25 seconds to service a web request
[04:41] <kiko> matsubara, will that fix many of the oopses, or not really?
[04:41] <SteveA> I'm -1 on making that longer
[04:41] <kiko> SteveA, we /are/ the nexus of open source activity. :)
[04:41] <SteveA> we should make it shorter if anything
[04:41] <jtv> We should fix the timeouts we have now, and _then_ make it shorter
[04:42] <matsubara> kiko: the queries I tried on staging took ~30s to complete.
[04:42] <SteveA> we can try it for a couple of days though, moving it 10s each way
[04:42] <SteveA> and comparing results
[04:42] <SteveA> I have a feeling we may see counter intuitive things there
[04:43] <mpt> I thought we had a soft timeout to warn us when things are taking too long
[04:43] <mpt> in which case the hard timeout should be determined by our hardware and resulting ability to spend time on requests
[04:43] <SteveA> mpt: not as simple as that
[04:43] <SteveA> we have a certain amount of concurrency available
[04:44] <SteveA> (number of app threads per server * num servers)
[04:44] <kiko> mpt, I think soft timeouts only serve as a warning if we have zero hard timeouts :)
[04:44] <SteveA> we have a certain amount of concurrency in the db server
[04:44] <jamesh> a long running request affects performance of other concurrent requests
[04:44] <mpt> SteveA, right, that's what I mean by "our hardware and resulting ability to spend time on requests"
[04:44] <SteveA> and that's to do with its number of processors and threads
[04:44] <SteveA> and reads vs writes in the database
[04:44] <SteveA> so, taking all that into account
[04:44] <stub> I think we can afford to increase the hard timeout from a load pov, but we need to do it gradually. Load on jubany is what we need to watch - not load on the appservers.
[04:45] <SteveA> we may actually get less hard timeouts by reducing the hard timeout, depending on exactly what kind of queries are at the root of a problem
[04:45] <SteveA> it's a non-linear problem
[04:45] <jtv> stub: cpu or i/o load?
[04:45] <stub> jtv: both
[04:45] <SteveA> stub: if we increase the timeout time, we should also increase concurrency
[04:45] <SteveA> by adding more threads per app server
[04:46] <jtv> ...which means more cache pressure
[04:46] <stub> I think we have more than enough threads, but I don't think I have an actual metric to back that up
[04:46] <SteveA> yep, checking memory on app servers and jubany
[04:46] <SteveA> stub: think how to get such a metric please
[04:46] <SteveA> anyway
[04:46] <SteveA> we're over time
[04:46] <SteveA> we have one more item
[04:46] <SteveA>  * Blockers
[04:46] <SteveA> please go ahead with team blockers
[04:46] <matsubara> EAM: infrastructure BLOCKED: no
[04:46] <jtv> TEAM: Translations BLOCKED: no
[04:46] <BjornT> TEAM: bug tracker BLOCKED: no
[04:46] <matsubara> TEAM: infrastructure BLOCKED: no
[04:46] <mpt> TEAM: UI BLOCKED: no
[04:46] <bigjools> TEAM Soyuz BLOCKED no
[04:46] <jsk> TEAM: Blueprint BLOCKED: no
[04:46] <stub> requests per second and average time to serve a request will give us that. I don't think we know average request time.
[04:46] <salgado> TEAM: Registry BLOCKED: no
[04:47] <sinzui> TEAM Answer Tracker: BLOCKED no
[04:47] <kiko> nobody blocked on me really?
[04:47] <bac> TEAM: Commercialization: BLOCKED no
[04:47] <ddaa> TEAM: Code BLOCKED: no
[04:47] <SteveA> stub: more like average transaction length
[04:47] <carlos> kiko: well, we are supposed to have a meeting with you since long time ago...
[04:47] <SteveA> stub: of which avg request length is an approximation.  maybe you can get transaction lengths from the db logs?
[04:47] <SteveA> no blockers
[04:47] <SteveA> yay
[04:47] <SteveA> thanks everyone
[04:47] <SteveA> MEETING ENDS
[04:47] <carlos> is that something to note in 'BLOCKED' ?
[04:48] <kiko> carlos, yes
[04:48] <kiko> if you are waiting on something from somebody else
[04:48] <kiko> then yes
[04:48] <carlos> kiko: ok, then we are blocked on agree our 1.1.8 tasks :-P
[04:48] <kiko> carlos, let's do that tomorrow first thing
[04:48] <SteveA> meeting to discuss how we investigate hard timeout oopses in 12 mins please, on the hour
[04:48] <jtv> SteveA: where?
[04:48] <carlos> kiko: that's fine for me
[04:48] <carlos> danilos, jtv?
[04:48] <SteveA> starting on irc, moving to voice if we need to
[04:49] <jtv> carlos, kiko: what's that in UTC?
[04:49] <danilos> kiko: sure thing, by my standards
[04:49] <kiko> around this time UTC, or up to 2 hours earlier depending on the weather
[04:49] <kiko> oh hang on I might be on vacation tomorrow :)
[04:49] <carlos> kiko: ok, thanks
[04:49] <carlos> oh
[04:49] <danilos> jtv: it should be around 12:00-14:00 UTC, if I am guessing correctly
[04:49] <danilos> oh, I am :)
[04:49] <carlos> then, next week?
[04:50] <jtv> oh great
[04:50] <carlos> danilos: are you on vacation?
[04:50] <danilos> carlos: not that I remember, no
[04:50] <carlos> danilos: ok, so you are guessing well :-P
[04:50] <danilos> :)
[04:51] <jtv> so... when?
[04:51] <danilos> tomorrow around this time ;)
[04:51] <jtv> ah, that's better
[04:52] <kiko> jtv, danilos, carlos: if you will be around in 3h we can do it then
[04:52] <kiko> it may be more guaranteed than tomorrow
[04:52] <jtv> kiko: erm...
[04:53] <carlos> I think I could be around
[04:53] <danilos> kiko: I think I'll already be a mess in 3h
[04:53] <danilos> though, I can be around if everybody else's in
[04:53] <kiko> yeah, I expected so
[04:53] <kiko> danilos, carlos, jtv: tell you what. I'll review and I'll email you about it. how about that?
[04:54] <jtv> kiko: that covers _one_ of our questions...
[04:54] <danilos> kiko: no, no, emailing doesn't work... :)
[04:54] <kiko> is there anything you'd like me to consider specially that won't be self-evident?
[04:54] <kiko> heh
[04:54] <danilos> kiko: we've got several other things... so, in 3 hours time?
[04:54] <kiko> yes.
[04:54] <carlos> kiko: well, we would like to talk also about our next sprint and phase2 optimisations
[04:54] <kiko> if jtv can't make it it's okay
[04:54] <kiko> I realize it's a crack time
[04:54] <jtv> Sigh.  Okay, I'll be there.   :P
[04:56] <jtv> kiko: hah, 's long as the bottle don't hit me
[04:58] <jtv> kiko: "a crack time"?  'sposeta be craick time
[04:59] <kiko> aye
[05:42] <mikmor2> Could anyone tell me how to open up a page like this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+subscribe for my project?
[05:43] <mikmor2> ie. I want people to be able to subscribe to bugs and answers in my project
[05:43] <mikmor2> Or do i have to create a maintained team...
[05:56] <kiko> mikmor2, what is your project?
[05:58] <mikmor2> kiko: https://launchpad.net/dru/
[05:58] <kiko> mikmor2, okay.
[05:58] <kiko> mikmor2, you can specify an open team as your bug contact in the bugs tab
[05:58] <kiko> mikmor2, that way anyone can get bug notifications.
[05:59] <kiko> mikmor2, in the answers tab anyone can subscribe as an answer contact.
[05:59] <mikmor2> ok, i'll do that then. thanks!
[05:59] <kiko> you're welcome!
[06:13] <seb128> hi
[06:13] <seb128> is launchpad timeouting a lot on searches for some days a known issue?
[06:14] <Hobbsee> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131299
[06:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 131299 in malone "Bug searches often time out" [High,In progress]   - Assigned to Bjrn Tillenius (bjornt)
[06:14] <seb128> Hobbsee: thanks
[06:41] <kiko> Hobbsee, seb128: we're working on it -- I'm very concerned
[06:43] <seb128> kiko: thanks
[06:44] <Hobbsee> kiko: great
[06:51] <roshan_s> Can someone help me import my GPG key into my Launchpad account? I've published my key to keyserver.ubuntu.com, and I can query it fine, but entering the fingerprint into Launchpad says it couldn't import the key. I'm somewhat new to GPG, though I understand public-key cryptography
[06:54] <kiko> roshan_s, what's your key id
[06:55] <roshan_s> Is that the LSB of the fingerprint? It's this: 2BDF897D
[06:59] <kiko> roshan_s, yeah. I can see it is in fact there.
[07:00] <kiko> roshan_s, what happens when you go to add that key to your account?
[07:01] <roshan_s> kiko: I get this error: Launchpad could not import your OpenPGP key.     *  Did you enter your complete fingerprint correctly? A fingerprint is a long sequence of numbers and letters. You should use the output produced by the command: ...    * Have you published your key to a public key server? You can do that by by entering in a terminal:
[07:01] <roshan_s>           gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-keys
[07:01] <roshan_s>     * Has your key been automatically mirrored to the Ubuntu key server? Keys sometimes take up to an hour to be synchronized between servers. You can check if it has by querying the Ubuntu key server directly. If it hasn't, you can publish directly to our server by entering in a terminal: ...
[07:03] <kiko> hmmmm
[07:03] <kiko> roshan_s, looks like a negative caching bug.
[07:03] <kiko> gar
[07:03] <kiko> matsubara-lunch, cprov-lunch: do any of you know how to cope with this?
[07:05] <roshan_s> kiko: If it helps, I published the key about 10 hours ago
[07:05] <kiko> cprov, his key /is/ on the keyserver, but I can't get to it from launchpad
[07:06] <cprov> roshan_s: your key ID, please ?
[07:06] <roshan_s> cprov: 2BDF897D
[07:08] <cprov> kiko: this key is not present in our internal keyserver, ping elmo for further debug.
[07:08] <cprov> kiko: or do you want me to do it ?
[07:08] <kiko> cprov, if you could please
[07:08] <kiko> I would like to understand if this is an ongoing problem
[07:08] <cprov> kiko: okay
[07:25] <kiko> roshan_s, can you try again please?
[07:26] <roshan_s> kiko: It worked now. It says it has sent me the email. Thanks!
[07:26] <kiko> roshan_s, rock on!
[07:29] <roshan_s> kiko: ... and the key has been confirmed. I made some packages for REVU, so now I can get on with the rest of the process. Thanks again!
[07:30] <kiko> roshan_s, sorry for the inconvenience, it's a problem with our internal keyserver's syncing. elmo offered to put work into monitoring it automatically, so thank him.
[07:31] <roshan_s> Thanks elmo, and cprov
[10:46] <mikmor2> Can I create a subproject easily?
[11:12] <mikmor2> Hmm.. could someone tell me how I turn my project into a super-project?
[12:07] <Kmos> some LP admin can remove https://launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/avahi-tracker , there is already https://launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/avahi
[12:13] <Kmos> https://launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/beryl-bugs
[12:13] <Kmos> and this one too


[12:12] <kanashiro> Trevinho, thanks for the update, so this under control, right? You will sort this out
[14:11] <dbungert> I sent a mail to ubuntu-devel ML about pytest but it doesn't seem to have come through, could a moderator take a look?
[14:29] <xnox> dbungert:  usual suspects are - are you subscribed to the mailing list? did you send it from the email that is subscribed?
[14:29] <xnox> dbungert:  are you ubuntu member? maybe you can send it to ubuntu-devel-discuss instead?
[14:31] <arraybolt3[m]> dbungert: I just got the email.
[15:03] <dbungert> xnox: arraybolt3[m]: thanks!
[15:17] <bdmurray> dbungert: For future reference I'm a moderator
[18:46] <sergiodj> hi, liburing's autopkgtest runs are all in a broken state.  they have been submitted 13 days ago and are still marked as "running".  https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running#pkg-liburing
[18:46] <sergiodj> can someone restart/kill these tests, please?
[18:46] <bdmurray> sergiodj: I'll have a look - thanks
[18:46] <sergiodj> bdmurray: thanks
[20:31] <bdmurray> sergiodj: I added liburing to never_run but those entries are not version specific so it'll need investigation by someone
[20:33] <bdmurray> sergiodj: part of the console log is here https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/JkTWBTQcxB/
[20:50] <bdmurray> I opened bug 1981636 about it
[21:04] <sergiodj> bdmurray: thanks for the heads up
[23:19] <Unit193> arraybolt3[m]: I guess if I'm going to PM you, then this client makes more sense than your IRC client, doesn't it?
[23:20] <sarnold> por que no los dos?
[23:20] <arraybolt3[m]> Unit193: True. But I'll get it either way.
[23:20] <Unit193> Ah, good enough for me.


[03:42] <sagaci> jaddi27: any time spare for a few translations?
[03:43] <jaddi27> yes, i have a bit
[03:44] <jaddi27> sagaci, what would you like me to do?
[03:44] <sagaci> ah nothing specific, just wondering if you were busy or not
[03:45] <sagaci> if we can get to under 100,000 strings by release, I'll feel pretty content with doing the rest of them by 12.04
[04:01] <head_victim> sagaci & jaddi27 I just sent a meeting reminder to the list for tomorrow night
[04:03] <sagaci> thanks, totally forgot it was on
[04:03] <head_victim> From memory jaddi27 is down as the chair, will you be available then jaddi27 ?
[04:04] <sagaci> yeah, since I did the August one
[04:13] <jaddi27> head_victim, Yes, I should be free at this stage
[04:13] <jaddi27> The event on facebook seems to have a few people listed as attending
[04:45] <head_victim> jaddi27: yeah that's a promising sign. Maybe a reminder to that group would be good
[04:45] <jaddi27> Yes, I could do that. Just on the group wall?
[04:46] <head_victim> I guess? Facebook is not my strong suit
[04:47] <jaddi27> Ok. I will put one there. Everyone in the group should also see the event listed in their upcoming events section as well
[04:47] <head_victim> Good stuff.
[04:47] <head_victim> I only have a facebook profile so I can do stuff in that team page
[04:48] <head_victim> I don't really know how to use it too well.
[04:48] <jaddi27> Ok. I have found some more information about Facebook groups vs pages that I was going to send to you as well
[04:55] <head_victim> No worries either PM links or shoot an email is fine.
[04:55] <head_victim> I'm hoping it's confirmed our current format
[04:55] <jaddi27> Well, it hasn't exactly
[04:56] <jaddi27> http://www.facebook.com/help/?page=18966
[04:56] <jaddi27> http://www.facebook.com/help/?faq=13622
[04:57] <jaddi27> It appears as though they are changing groups from the format like ours is currently in to a new format
[04:57] <jaddi27> The new format is good for small groups, but not quite as good for what we do at the moment possibly
[04:58] <jaddi27> I think a good example would be to compare our Ubuntu-au group to the Ubuntu page on facebook
[04:58] <jaddi27> http://www.facebook.com/ubuntulinux
[05:51] <head_victim> So you think the page or the group best suits what we're currently doing?
[05:54] <jaddi27> Under the new type, I think page
[05:54] <jaddi27> but i am still trying to work out how eventswork with pages
[05:57] <jaddi27> At the moment, leave it as is, but when our group is changed to the new type, we can re-evaluate
[05:58] <head_victim> No worries. I guess we can just see how it goes, might find it better than we anticipate as well.  Never know I guess.
[06:00] <jaddi27> Yes, it is hard to tell. Ultimately I would prefer a cross between the two
[08:22] <sagaci> 30% to go
[08:22] <fabricator4> ?
[08:23] <sagaci> en_AU translation, ~119,300 to go
[08:24] <fabricator4> Ah.  :-)
[08:25] <fabricator4> My good dead for the day:  Gave a scammer hell.  :-p
[08:25] <sagaci> nice
[08:26] <fabricator4> Indian, she was crying by the time I hung up.
[08:26] <sagaci> :/
[08:27] <fabricator4> Well,   maybe she'll go and do something else rather the preying on the vulnerable.
[08:28] <fabricator4> She asked how I knew she was a scammer.  My reply: "there are NO Windows machine in this house"  :-)
[08:28] <sagaci> fair enough
[08:29] <fabricator4> Cruel to be kind.  :-)
[08:30] <fabricator4> Arrgh.  the battery panel indicator on this EeePC is playing up
[08:41] <head_victim> The worst part about the scammers, they're told they're doing legit work.
[08:47] <fabricator4> She didn't seem to know what a "scammer" was.
[08:48] <frederick85> i had dealings with a computer store today and i believe I got ripped off
[08:48] <frederick85> I payed 300 for an upgraded motherboard and processor and they did nothing but downgraded it
[08:48] <fabricator4> I think she had a fair idea by the time I'd finished talking.  :-/
[08:48] <frederick85> now they think i have to pay them 200 dollars for their hard work
[08:49] <fabricator4> frederick85, what happened?
[08:49] <frederick85> i payed 300 to get my computer upgraded
[08:49] <frederick85> they downgraded it so i took it bacfk
[08:49] <frederick85> they couldn't find another motherboard for the same socket
[08:49] <frederick85> i boguht a motherboard but it turned out to be faulty
[08:49] <frederick85> and the computer store is charging me for all the work they did installing motherboards
[08:50] <frederick85> even though they got it wrong
[08:50] <fabricator4> They didn't have your old one to put back in?
[08:50] <frederick85> it was broken
[08:51] <frederick85> i tried to just get my money back but they only said they'd give me 100 back of the 300
[08:51] <fabricator4> Ah.  So it's working now for $300 - $100?
[08:51] <frederick85> no it's not working
[08:51] <frederick85> its still in their store
[08:51] <fabricator4> eerk
[08:51] <frederick85> no mother board
[08:51] <frederick85> no processor
[08:52] <frederick85> i'm going to buy a motherboard and processor from another store
[08:52] <fabricator4> No fix, no Pay
[08:52] <head_victim> Hmm you said you paid 300 for a new cpu and MB though
[08:52] <frederick85> and get this store to install it
[08:52] <frederick85> yes I did pay 300 with intention to get a new cpu and MB
[08:52] <frederick85> but they gave me a downgraded 4 year old motherboard
[08:52] <frederick85> and a processor for an old socket
[08:52] <frederick85> thats why i took it back
[08:52] <head_victim> Hmm that sounds a bit odd.
[08:53] <fabricator4> Yes, they tried to rip you off.
[08:53] <frederick85> i said you are screwing me around i want a new motherboard
[08:53] <head_victim> This is why I hate dealing with old computers though. Making bits and pieces fit together sucks.
[08:53] <frederick85> and they said i had to pay extra
[08:53] <frederick85> i found an old computer on the road collection
[08:53] <head_victim> You upgrade the cpu and mb you're likely to need to upgrade the ram as well.
[08:53] <frederick85> and fixed it
[08:54] <frederick85> well it was realible to think they were giving me an upgrade for 300 dollars
[08:54] <frederick85> they said they upgraded only in terms of it being working again
[08:54] <head_victim> For 300 I'd expect a working computer, not an upgrade.
[08:54] <frederick85> well even if they did upgrade it for 300 it would work out to them getting 80 dollars for their work
[08:54] <fabricator4> It can add up, but for $300 you'd expect a working computer.
[08:54] <frederick85> i did get a working computer
[08:54] <frederick85> but it was a downgrade
[08:55] <frederick85> a 4 year old motherboard
[08:55] <head_victim> How old was the MB it was replacing?
[08:55] <frederick85> that only supported 2g of ram
[08:55] <head_victim> What socket are you talking about?
[08:55] <frederick85> 775
[08:55] <fabricator4> That sounds like my main machine :-)
[08:56] <frederick85> the one i was replacing was working fine but supported more ram than the one i put in
[08:56] <frederick85> so I couldn't play my games on high resolution anymore
[08:56] <head_victim> My usual computer store doesn't even stock socket 775 MBs anymore
[08:56] <frederick85> yeah they are so dumb
[08:56] <frederick85> i felt like punching the guy
[08:56] <frederick85> but i'd probably end up worse if i did
[08:57] <head_victim> Well realistically it all depends on how you approached them for the work. If you just said fix it, well they have fixed it.
[08:57] <frederick85> he was just ignorant of the motherboards specs he gave me
[08:57] <frederick85> well they gave me the impression they would be upgrading it
[08:58] <frederick85> but today they turned around and said we only upgraded it in terms of working
[08:58] <fabricator4> realistically, for an upgrade to a quad core: MB $180, CPU $100, 4GB memory $180.  Add labour to that - at least 1 hour.
[08:58] <frederick85> 4gb memory is 90
[08:59] <frederick85> can get a ddr3 mb and processor for 140
[08:59] <fabricator4> depends on the speed.
[08:59] <frederick85> i just bought 4gb of memory for 90 dollars ddr3
[08:59] <fabricator4> Yes, but they can't sell it for that if that's what they pay for it.
[08:59] <head_victim> fabricator4: depends on the store, that's going to a cheap place with no service.
[08:59] <frederick85> they reckon they were charging me 80 dollars for an hour labor
[09:00] <head_victim> frederick85: that's about normal in my experience.
[09:00] <fabricator4> Fair enough.  $60 is too cheap, $100 is too expensive.  $80 is fair.
[09:00] <frederick85> i shouldn't have had to pay for their work if they didn't do anything though
[09:01] <fabricator4> It sounds like the service was bad.  I wouldn't do that repair unless the customer knew exactly what he was getting back.
[09:01] <head_victim> frederick85: they did replace your MB and CPU though.
[09:01] <frederick85> yeah but with a dodgy one
[09:01] <frederick85> it only supported 2g of ram
[09:01] <head_victim> Like I said, dpends on how the conversation all went what they're doing could be totally expected.
[09:01] <frederick85> i wouldn't have gotten it if I knew it was a downgrade
[09:01] <benonsoftware> Hi all
[09:01] <frederick85> i'm reporting them to dept of consumer affairs
[09:02] <fabricator4> Case of reality not meeting customer expectations - the store has to put it right
[09:02] <frederick85> they didn't even give me a tax invoice or anything
[09:02] <head_victim> fabricator4: depends on how the original conversation went really, if it was dropped off as not working and said fix it. They call back saying 300 to fix and the customer says ok, then it's all perfectly fine.
[09:02] <frederick85> i said upgrade it
[09:02] <frederick85> it wasn't simply fix it
[09:03] <frederick85> and they downgraded it with a 4-5 year old board
[09:03] <head_victim> Well I'm not willing to say they've done anything wrong without being present for all the conversation :/
[09:04] <head_victim> You should be able to return the MB and CPU and get refunds on those but you'll be out of pocket for the labour.
[09:04] <frederick85> i can only get 100 dollars back
[09:04] <fabricator4> I wouldn't do that particular fix unless the customer knew exactly what he was getting.  It seems like a lack of communication on their part.
[09:05] <fabricator4> At the end of the day, you might have to chalk it up to experience.
[09:05] <head_victim> fabricator4: yeah hard to say without knowing the full story. All I know is I hate buggering around with old hardware :/
[09:05] <head_victim> I spent 3 hours one day on a computer store workbench to figure out the case had a fault earthing power switch.
[09:06] <head_victim> I assumed PSU or MB issus.
[09:06] <frederick85> i'm just annoyed at the lack of communication
[09:07] <fabricator4> :-)  Doesn't scare me - I had a rebooting machine that had a colleage stumped.  Trace the fault to a badly fitted reset switch.
[09:07] <frederick85> they didn't tell me what i was getting and they themselves were ignorant of the mb specs
[09:07] <head_victim> Did you have more then 2gb of ram in it to start with?
[09:07] <fabricator4> cowboys.  :-[
[09:07] <frederick85> yes i had more than 2gb of ddr2 ram
[09:07] <head_victim> fabricator4: wasn't scary, just annoying.
[09:07] <frederick85> and some of the ram was too fast for the MB they gave me
[09:07] <fabricator4> Been THERE  :-)
[09:08] <head_victim> frederick85: too fast isn't an issue it will just clock down to highest support speed.
[09:08] <fabricator4> frederick85, that's not normally a problem
[09:08] <frederick85> 2 of my memory sticks didn't work in it
[09:08] <frederick85> because they were newer i guess
[09:08] <fabricator4> Could be an issue with too slow, or double sided... something like that
[09:09] <head_victim> Or if you have other sticks they might not be compatible together.
[09:09] <frederick85> they were all working in my old computer
[09:09] <fabricator4> Yes, should stick to same brand/type if possible.
[09:10] <frederick85> my old computer was fine except the heat sink lost it's fluid in the coil
[09:10] <frederick85> and i couldn't replace it because didn't have bracket
[09:10] <fabricator4> What works in one computer may not work in another.
[09:11] <frederick85> but i can get my computer fixed still i just going to get a motherboard and processor from another store
[09:11] <fabricator4> Solution: buy old CPU off Ebay (and take the lottery that you get sold a working unit)
[09:11] <frederick85> and get same store to fix it with the last 80 dollars they owe me
[09:11] <frederick85> well i found this old computer on the side of the road yesterday so i have that until i get my gaming one fixed
[09:12] <frederick85> running xubuntu on it
[09:12] <fabricator4> What is in it?
[09:12] <frederick85> it's a pentium 4 1.7 ghz
[09:12] <frederick85> with 256mb of ram
[09:12] <fabricator4> :-)
[09:12] <fabricator4> You might try Lubuntu on that one.
[09:13] <frederick85> can't now unless i go for a big walk
[09:13] <frederick85> no cd burner
[09:13] <fabricator4> USB stick
[09:13] <frederick85> no usb stick either
[09:13] <fabricator4> No Woolworths/Coles
[09:14] <fabricator4> ?
[09:14] <frederick85> xubuntu is running on it already
[09:14] <frederick85> why bother?
[09:14] <frederick85> it's a temporary fix
[09:14] <fabricator4> Will run faster - less overhead
[09:14] <fabricator4> fair enough
[09:14] <frederick85> it's going to be a spare if i get my other one running
[09:15] <fabricator4> I have a Celeron 2.8 GHz with 1Gb that I use for testing betas and playing with distros.
[09:15] <head_victim> Well the only thing I'd suggest is take it back and ask politely for them to fix your issue, if they don't take you 100 dollars and never go baclk
[09:16] <fabricator4> Agreed.  You'll get a lot further by being pleasant, even though it might be hard to do so.
[09:16] <head_victim> I'm hoping to ditch all my socket 478 soon :D I only have 1 pc running on that old stuff. I just need to find a way to upgrade the server so I can swap out it's s775 into the s478 that's stillin use and I can ditch about 4 cartons of spares.
[09:16] <frederick85> i'm just going to buy a motherboard and processor myself and get them to install it
[09:17] <frederick85> maybe i can sell this computer i found to make up for losing 300 dollars to the computer repair people for their "labor"
[09:18] <fabricator4> It's worth more as a working spare that it is to sell.  If you don't want it, donate it.
[09:18] <fabricator4> * than it is to sell
[09:18] <frederick85> donating it is probably a good idea
[09:19] <frederick85> i have friends who can't afford a computer
[09:19] <fabricator4> There you go.  You can help a friend and make a 'buntu convert in one go.
[09:23] <frederick85> yes nothing like being helpful to humanity
[09:23] <frederick85> in some way or another
[09:24] <head_victim> I've both sent parts to people from the team and also received some. So it all goes around in the end.


[10:05] <hjb> Howdy. i temporarily have to use an android phone - how do i migrate sms/contacts from MX4 to it?
[10:06] <hjb> any well known /approved way available?
[10:06] <hjb> it'd be best not involving google or any other "online" service
[10:44] <hjb> hmm, noone?
[10:47] <Saviq> hjb, I can tell you where the data goes on a Ubuntu phone - ~/.local/share/history-service/history.sqlite
[10:47] <Saviq> it's a simple sqlite database, so extracting the data from there should be relatively easy
[10:47] <Saviq> how to import that into Android, I'm afraid I don't know
[10:48] <Saviq> contacts would probably be easiest to transfer via Google indeed, or any other CardDAV service
[10:48] <Saviq> https://syncevolution.org/ is used for that
[13:02] <hjb> Saviq: ok, that's helpful. I've got an own carddav server (radicale), so that should be usable for contacts
[13:02] <hjb> Saviq: i'll take a look at it, thanks for now
[13:03] <Saviq> hjb, for a one-time transfer, syncevolution lets you export to a vcard file, that should be importable to android
[13:04] <hjb> Saviq: do i install syncevolution directly on my MX4?
[13:04] <Saviq> hjb, it's already there
[13:05] <hjb> oh
[13:05] <hjb> nice :)
[13:05] <hjb> never noticed that
[13:05] <hjb> where can i find it?
[13:06] <Saviq> hjb, it's a command-line tool
[13:09] <hjb> sry for asking stupid questions, i've already found it
[13:09] <hjb> that's great, i'll use that
[14:18] <mterry> bfiller: most u8 apps will need a rebuild at some point to work with latest desktop-launch setting the new MIR_SOCKET location, heads up
[15:04] <bfiller> mterry, ack renatu working on it
[15:04] <renatu> mterry, I should publish new packages today
[15:07] <mterry> renatu: cool -- sorry for noise, but I just realized we weren't pointing at interface location because XDG_RUNTIME_DIR in snaps are namespaced
[15:07] <mterry> so the default socket path was wrong
[15:12] <mterry> kenvandine: I'm trying to get pasteboard to work in u8 snaps...  copy seems to work.  But the app is calling RequestPasteByAppId for pasting, which doesn't seem to exist in content-hub and I can't find reference to it anywhere, not sure where the client is calling that
[15:12] <mterry> Any ideas?
[15:15] <kenvandine> mterry, that is provided by the service
[15:15] <kenvandine> oh
[15:15] <kenvandine> by AppId?
[15:16] <mterry> kenvandine: yes.  But I don't see any version of RequestPaste.  Just GetLatestPasteData and GetPasteData
[15:17] <kenvandine> mterry, the hub lib provides requestPasteById which calls GetPasteData
[15:17] <mterry> kenvandine: right but I'm seeing RequestPasteByAppId on dbus (apparmor denial for it)
[15:17] <kenvandine> that's wrong :)
[15:18] <kenvandine> nothing has changed in qtubuntu has it?
[15:18] <mterry> kenvandine: also -- a confined app, what should it be allowed to call?  GetLatestPasteData or GetPasteData or both?
[15:18] <kenvandine> both
[15:18] <mterry> kenvandine: nothing to my knowledge...  I couldn't find the string RequestPasteByAppId anywhere
[15:18] <kenvandine> mterry, any chance you have artmello's clipboard silo installed?
[15:19] <mterry> kenvandine: seems unlikely...
[15:19] <kenvandine> oh... maybe the SDK
[15:19] <kenvandine> i think his changes for the clipboard might have landed in the uitk
[15:19] <kenvandine> but not content-hub
[15:19] <kenvandine> mterry, does paste with ctrl-v work?
[15:20] <mterry> kenvandine: yup -- I bzr pulled ui toolkit and I see a call to RequestPasteByAppId
[15:20] <mterry> kenvandine: ctrl-v... let me try
[15:20] <mterry> kenvandine: no it just prints 'v' but that might be a unity8 snap problem, not a real issue
[15:21] <kenvandine> sounds like it
[15:21] <mterry> kenvandine: yeah composing is broken
[15:21] <mterry> kenvandine: is content-hub api changing then?
[15:21]  * mterry wants to make sure he encodes right API in apparmor profile
[15:21] <kenvandine> additional dbus API
[15:21] <kenvandine> to handle the clipboard UI
[15:21] <kenvandine> which was held up waiting for uitk staging to land
[15:22] <kenvandine> artmello has a silo which i think is ready to land
[15:22] <kenvandine> it'll open the clipboard in a trust prompt
[15:22] <mterry> kenvandine: OK so I add that call and I should be fine (once content-hub silo lands)?
[15:22] <kenvandine> i think so
[15:22] <kenvandine> artmello is out today, he knows better than i
[15:23] <kenvandine> mterry, i'm excited to hear copy works though :)
[15:24] <mterry> kenvandine: heh all nice and confined too
[15:24] <kenvandine> sweet :)
[15:26] <mterry> kenvandine: what is PasteSelected?  New signal as well?
[15:26] <mterry> kenvandine: can I see new content-hub silo?
[15:26] <mterry> i.e. which num is it?
[15:27] <mterry> https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2179
[15:28] <kenvandine> yeah, that's it :)
[15:28] <kenvandine> i was just looking for that
[15:29] <kenvandine> mterry, look at the changes to com.ubuntu.content.Service.xml
[15:29] <mterry> kenvandine: ok a lot of new api there...  which should apps be able to call -- RemovePaste, GetPasteSource(?), GetAllPasteIds(?), RequestPasteByAppId, do they also get to call SelectPasteForAppId?
[15:29] <kenvandine> mterry, i think you need all of the new ones except RemovePaste
[15:30] <mterry> ok
[15:30] <kenvandine> that would only be fore the clipboard UI
[15:30] <mterry> kenvandine: clipboard ui that lives outside the app, right?
[15:30] <kenvandine> right
[15:30] <kenvandine> separate app
[15:31] <kenvandine> SelectPasteForAppId might be used for filtering in the clipboard app
[15:33] <mterry> kenvandine: ok adding all but RemovePaste, thanks
[15:33] <kenvandine> cool
[15:33] <mterry> kenvandine: no api was deprecated?
[15:33] <kenvandine> no
[15:33] <kenvandine> only additional
[15:33] <mterry> kk
[16:12] <renatu> popey, could you review this? https://code.launchpad.net/~renatofilho/ubuntu-docviewer-app/no-file-hint/+merge/316865
[16:19] <mterry> kenvandine: what is HandlerActive in content-hub?  I should allow that too?
[16:19] <kenvandine> mterry, yes
[16:20] <kenvandine> we use that to check to see if there are transfers to handle when the app gets activated
[16:22] <mterry> kenvandine: hmm something isn't working right for me -- I can copy and paste inside an app but not between apps -- what might I be missing?
[16:22] <kenvandine> mterry, actually HandlerActive isn't related to copy/paste just transfers
[16:23] <kenvandine> mterry, capture the dbus traffic
[16:23] <kenvandine> mterry, and which apps are you testing with?
[16:23] <mterry> kenvandine: webbrowser-app and lonewolf (a game snap that I made)
[16:23] <kenvandine> are either using xmir?
[16:24] <mterry> kenvandine: no
[16:24] <kenvandine> ok, then if it works within the same app it should work between apps
[16:24] <kenvandine> capture the dbus traffic and pastebin it please
[16:24] <mterry> ugh capturing dbus traffic
[16:25] <kenvandine> mterry, i want to make sure the copy is getting put on the stack
[16:25] <mterry> kenvandine: I can never remember the dbus-monitor args to get that right without 10000 lines
[16:25] <kenvandine> mterry, me either :)
[16:25] <kenvandine> just monitor the user session
[16:25] <mterry> kenvandine: is there a way to make content-hub verbose?
[16:25] <kenvandine> and look for stuff on com.ubuntu.Paste
[16:25] <kenvandine> you can set CONTENT_HUB_LOGGING_LEVEL=2
[16:25] <kenvandine> for the service
[16:26] <kenvandine> i don't recall the systemd way to do that...
[16:26] <kenvandine> systemctrl set-environment
[16:26] <kenvandine> or something
[16:26] <kenvandine> mterry, it'll be extremely verbose :)
[16:26] <kenvandine> mterry, you'll also need to restart the service
[16:36] <mterry> kenvandine: should the array of bytes I see on dbus be simple for a text/plain?    Will worry about crasher later
[16:46] <kenvandine> mterry, ok
[16:50] <mterry> tedg_: is there a plan to allow snaps to register url-dispatcher protocols with the u8 snap?
[16:50] <mterry> is that a hook thing?
[16:52] <renatu> popey, another one :D, https://code.launchpad.net/~renatofilho/ubuntu-filemanager-app/snap-mir/+merge/316877
[16:53] <tedg_> mterry: Yeah, a hook thing. We need interface hooks for it.
[17:43] <taiebot> I have seen people flashing their Pro 5 with staging does this work with Nexus 4 tried a week ago and it did not boot. Do you think i need to wipe all the data to boot?
[17:45] <dobey> taiebot: i think you should not bother trying to flash staging. use stable or rc-proposed
[17:49] <taiebot> dobey: being on rc-proposed for almost 2 years and to not see  my phone with it's daily morning notification is killing me. Feels like I am  on rehab at the moment :-)
[17:51] <dobey> taiebot: well, flashing staging will just get you a phone that doesn't work as a phone
[17:51] <dobey> or well, maybe the phone app will be the only thing that works, perhaps
[17:53] <taiebot> dobey: So it should boot because last time i tried it just did not get past the google logo
[17:54] <dobey> taiebot: i don't know if it boots or not. but you shouldn't be using it.
[17:55] <dobey> it doesn't support clicks, it doesn't support snaps, lots of things don't work because it's in the middle as a way for us to test transition to snaps on a few devices, but for some reason apparently is getting built for a lot of devices
[18:20] <daker> hi guys does anyone know if an app need to be in the store to be able to send a push notification ?
[18:21] <dobey> it doesn't afaik
[18:22] <dobey> push notifications are sent by a server, to the push server, which relays it to the user's device(s) based on the token being used
[18:23] <dobey> the push client on the device interprets the metadata of the notification, and calls the appropriate app's helper if it exists on the device
[18:23] <dobey> at least, that's how i understand push notifications to work
[18:34] <daker> ya because even with all the client side config for the app, it fails to get a token
[18:35] <dobey> well what's the error?
[18:47] <daker> dobey: https://paste.ubuntu.com/23962105/
[18:48] <daker> i do have the permission on both the app & the helper
[18:51] <dobey> daker: your "app" is not packaged as a click and side-loaded i guess? i don't see any valid APPID mentioned in that entry
[18:51] <daker> dobey: installed via the IDE
[18:52] <dobey> ok, well that is clearly a local issue, i guess something with the apparmor policy json needs to be changed
[19:02] <daker> you mean with app ? because i checked sil's app(which have push notification working) it has the same apparmor config
[19:55] <dobey> daker: yeah. well if it works with another app, then maybe there is a bug somewhere, or the profile didn't get generated correctly, or something. did you try rebooting?
[20:13] <daker> dobey: no i didn't, i'll try it
[20:25] <timppa> evening
[20:25] <timppa> morning or good day :)
[20:26] <timppa> anyone kind enough to assist on flashing Ubuntu M10 tablet? Seems that my laptop is not detecting the tablet in recovery mode
[20:27] <timppa> What could be the issue?
[20:27] <dobey> the stock recovery is locked without adb
[20:28] <dobey> you need to get the recovery image from the wiki page and pass it to ubuntu-device-flash with the --recovery-image option
[20:28] <dobey> !devices | timppa
[20:28] <timppa> dobey: that explains...
[20:28] <dobey> find the correct recovery img for your device there (either frieza or cooler)
[20:29] <timppa> yep, it's Frieza
[20:32] <timppa> dobey: do I need to be in fastboot mode to flash the recovery?
[20:32] <timppa> dobey: or how that should be done?
[20:33] <dobey> timppa: are you wiping all user data off the device too?
[20:35] <timppa> dobey: that was the idea
[20:35] <dobey> timppa: then yes, in fastboot mode using the --bootstrap option
[20:36] <timppa> dobey: ok
[20:38] <timppa> dobey: seems to work
[20:38] <timppa> dobey: pushing in the staging channel :)
[20:39] <timppa> dobey: Thank you!
[20:47] <timppa> I actually even boots up!
[21:40] <mterry> tedg_: what piece of code exposes the org.freedesktop.Application.Open method?  (for passing url-dispatcher urls)
[21:40] <mterry> I'm not seeing it in my confined webbrowser-app
[21:55] <tedg_> mterry: Not sure exactly, I think it's part of qtubuntu
[21:56] <mterry> tedg_: I got it to be exposed if I set APP_ID=webbrowser-app
[21:56] <tedg_> Huh, okay...
[21:56] <mterry> tedg_: still not sure where, but good enough for now
[21:57] <tedg_> mterry: It might be using that envvar for the path or something like that.


[15:44]  * PaulW2U thinks the working .doc is not looking to good but there really are very few links to add ..........


[02:04] <Riddell> well 9 merges from KDE done, only 63 to go
[09:42] <jussi> bah, kmail/kontact sucks :(
[09:43] <jussi> I wish I could get my gcals into the darned thing...
[09:49] <valorie> jussi, kmail won't even start for me
[09:49] <valorie> :(
[09:49] <valorie> i miss it a lot
[10:00] <jussi> valorie: it strats then gives a message it needs to cloase?
[10:01] <skfin> I miss kmail too :(
[10:02] <valorie> in my case, it says something about mail-agent or something
[10:02] <skfin> I use it in my desktop too
[10:02] <skfin> *-roo
[10:02] <skfin> *-too
[10:02] <valorie> I used it from mandrake on
[10:02] <skfin> But for laptop akonadi is too buggy
[10:02] <jussi> valorie: yes, this one? KMail encountered a fatal error and will terminate now.
[10:02] <jussi> The error was:
[10:02] <jussi> Failed to fetch the resource collection.
[10:02] <valorie> exactly
[10:02] <valorie> same on my netbook
[10:02] <jussi> valorie: thats fixable
[10:02] <valorie> brand new install in both cases
[10:03] <valorie> thunderbird is soooo bad
[10:03] <valorie> I'm thinking of learning how to use mutt again
[10:03] <valorie> and I hate mutt
[10:03] <valorie> so ugly
[10:03] <jussi> valorie: go to akonadi configuration, local folders, modify, then add this path: /home/<USER>/.kde/share/apps/kmail/mail/
[10:03] <skfin> I find that thunderbird is ok...
[10:04] <valorie> it is maddeningly slow for me, skfin
[10:04] <valorie> like -- a whole minute to view an email
[10:04] <valorie> horrible
[10:04] <skfin> Kmail is a lot slower for me
[10:04] <valorie> jussi, where is akonadi config?
[10:04] <jussi> valorie: in kmeni...
[10:04] <valorie> oh god, I'm doomed to MUTT!
[10:05] <jussi> kmeni
[10:05] <jussi> kmenu even...
[10:05] <valorie> systemsettings?
[10:05] <jussi> no
[10:06] <valorie> got it
[10:06] <jussi> ok
[10:07] <valorie> ok done, but why isn't that already set by default at startup?
[10:08] <jussi> I dont know :/
[10:08] <valorie> bizarre
[10:09] <valorie> I mean, what else would it be?
[10:10] <valorie> hmmm, why does it want api.opendesktop.org?
[10:10] <valorie> so strange
[10:10] <valorie> There seems to be a problem in reaching this server or choosing a safe way to sent the credentials to server. We advise you to check the settings of the account and adjust it manually if needed.
[10:10] <valorie> for gmail
[10:10] <valorie> I dunno......
[10:11] <valorie> now I think it's frozen
[10:17] <jussi> valorie: hows it going?
[10:18] <valorie> it said it's all set up
[10:18] <jussi> I still cant get my gcal things to work...
[10:18] <valorie> however, since I have about one billion emails in gmail, I sorta doubt that
[10:19] <valorie> but since my taskbar is telling me I need to restart, I probably should shut down once I finish reading up my important channels
[10:21] <jussi> Sigh... :(
[10:22] <valorie> is your cal not importing, or what?
[10:22] <valorie> would be lovely to have all of PIM working
[10:22] <valorie> I've never had that
[10:23]  * valorie would love a pure KDE desktop
[10:26] <skfin> It would be awesome if KDE had a good browser and akonadi wouldn't be such a resource hog, then I could use pure KDE desktop
[10:28] <jussi> it would be awesome if kontact actually worked...
[10:29] <skfin> Rekonq is promising but a way too buggy for regular use.
[10:29] <skfin> And it lacks many features
[10:31] <skfin> Page load times are slow too, I wonder why, because my reference QWebKit browser loaded same pages quicker
[10:32] <debfx> just use firefox or chromium, both have reasonable kde integration
[10:32] <jussi> chromium <3
[10:33] <tsdgeos> apachelogger: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dragonplayer/+bug/893941
[15:22] <Tm_T> anyone here has upgraded from 10.10 to 11.10?
[15:23] <Riddell> that's not supported
[15:39] <Tm_T> Riddell: I'm well aware(:
[15:57] <muntiKubu> 4.7.80 -> 4.8 B1 I'm guessing to be in PP soon?
[15:58] <Riddell> I'm doing 4.7.3 merges before doing 4.7.80
[16:01] <muntiKubu> so those are the bunch of updates yesterday?  I thought they were 4.8's.  thanks but will hold/wait.
[16:05] <Andy80> hello guys
[16:05] <Andy80> is anyone of you already working on experimental Qt5 packages for Ubuntu/Kubuntu?
[16:24] <yofel> Riddell: something's not right here: http://paste.kde.org/149954 multiarch?
[16:37] <debfx> yofel: yep, bug #893826
[16:37] <yofel> k, thanks
[16:51] <debfx> hm looks like we need to multiarch'ify phonon: bug #893170
[16:55] <Riddell> Andy80: no, I don't think qt 5 is at a stage where it's worth doing that yet
[16:56] <Riddell> yofel: hmm, "LGPL_EXCEPTION.txt' is different from the same file on the system" that's not an error I've seen before
[16:56] <yofel> see the bug debfx has pointed to
[16:57] <Riddell> mm
[16:57] <Riddell> debfx: maybe no bad thing to multiarchify phonon
[16:59] <Andy80> Riddell: it's not stable nor very usable at the moment, but I'd like to give it a try and see if Unity-2D can already run on it and how many changes do we need to make it work with Qt5
[17:16] <Riddell> Andy80: I think we'll be too busy for a while in Kubuntu to make any qt 5 packages
[17:17] <Andy80> Riddell: I asked mainly to avoid duplicate work :) I was going to do it, but someone suggested me to ask here before starting this task. I'll keep you updated if I make any progress :)
[17:25] <Riddell> Andy80: thanks
[18:33] <apachelogger> afiestas: ping
[19:20] <afiestas> apachelogger: pong
[19:31] <BarkingFish> ping :)
[19:31] <BarkingFish> Anyone here have kdenlive installed on their systems? If so, does it work correctly?
[19:32] <BarkingFish> My install is persistently dying, saying that mlt's SDL module is missing, which is fatal.  This problem surfaced previously, back in natty, but it got fixed.
[19:33] <BarkingFish> I know it got fixed, I had kdenlive working perfectly until i had to downgrade KDE back to 4.6.2 about a week ago
[19:58] <apachelogger> afiestas: who is doing solid mentor stuff for code-in?
[19:58] <apachelogger> afiestas: http://www.google-melange.com/gci/task/view/google/gci2011/7127224
[19:59] <apachelogger> afiestas: turns out this is really an issue in solid as dragon already tries to inhibit screen saving but it aint working
[19:59] <apachelogger> http://paste.kde.org/150128/
[19:59] <apachelogger> the latin1ness of it is truly terrific btw
[20:01] <Riddell> bambee: do you remember why you added kubuntu_123_disable_remote_widgets_browser.diff to kde-workspace ?
[20:01] <Riddell> oh something to do with libkdeclarative
[20:04] <apachelogger> Riddell: it was broken
[20:14] <bambee> Riddell: there is not a comment ?
[20:15] <bambee> usually, everytime I add a patch I add at least one comment..
[20:17] <Riddell> says waiting until libkdeclarative can be linked to statically
[20:24] <apachelogger> static linking
[20:24] <apachelogger> eeew
[20:31] <BarkingFish> what in the name of mike has happened to libsdl1.2?
[20:31] <BarkingFish> i've now got some weird debian thing with about 10 options, and with all of them installed, kdenlive *still* won't run.
[20:37] <afiestas> apachelogger: have to go to home now, brb in 15min
[20:45] <Riddell> BarkingFish: I guess nobody here knows
[20:47] <BarkingFish> Riddell: that's pretty unfortunate.  I know the problem went away when I was running the proposed updates PPAs, but since the issues with 4.7.3 and my downgrading to 4.7.2, everything's gone pie eyed again.
[20:48] <BarkingFish> I have every conceivable SDL package I can install on here, it's only since the changes I see from libsdl to the debian libsdl - for some reason now, mlt / kdenlive simply aren't picking the new package up
[20:51] <yofel> BarkingFish: wait, you're getting the MLT error? That needs a newer kdenlive than oneiric has
[20:51] <BarkingFish> yofel: it shouldn't do.  I was running kdenlive perfectly well until I downgraded to 4.7.2 last week :)
[20:52] <BarkingFish> unless the newer version is in one of the PPA's I took off when 4.7.3 broke my kit
[20:52] <yofel> BarkingFish: well, because the ppa has an updated kdenlive too...
[20:52] <BarkingFish> i don't mind the PPAs being on, as long as they don't break KDE when I use them
[20:52] <yofel> enable the PPA -> only update kdenlive -> disable ppa
[20:53] <BarkingFish> i also had the proposed updates in my sources, and various others I stopped using.
[20:53] <BarkingFish> if KDE 4.7.3 wasn't busted, I'd continue quite willingly to use all of them
[20:56] <BarkingFish> yofel: can I check, which PPA are you referring to, that I need to enable?
[20:57] <BarkingFish> i've just added the proposed updates source back to apper
[20:57] <yofel> BarkingFish: right, kubuntu-ppa/ppa has it (0.8+svn5945-1~oneiric1~ppa1)
[20:57] <BarkingFish> great, thanks :)
[21:06] <BarkingFish> yofel - I've got it now. I'm just pulling kdenlive and the -data file off of the PPA, I'll see how I get on after this
[21:07] <BarkingFish> unfortunately I now have apper bugging me about 359 new updates I need to do, and a whole set of 4.7.3 things I don't want :)
[21:14] <BarkingFish> one thing bugs me though - if you have a working version of kdenlive, which functions correctly without errors, why isn't it on general release to the whole of oneiric?  Can't you file a... what do they call it... an SRU?
[21:15] <BarkingFish> if the package in oneiric is bust, surely you can redistribute the working version without people subscribing to a ppa to get it
[21:17] <yofel> someone can put it into -backports, for the SRU you would need to get someone that finds the actual commit that fixed this
[21:17] <Riddell> agateau: I don't suppose you know if we should care about kubuntu_discard_actions_when_using_ayatana.diff patch in kde-runtime?  it doesn't apply but there's nothing in our changelog about if we wanted to remove it
[21:18] <BarkingFish> yofel - so would finding the commit be a difficult process, or would it be something that a relative kube-newb like me could handle?
[21:18] <yofel> no idea, I didn't try
[21:18] <yofel> it was fixed upstream - so you'll have to search there
[21:19] <BarkingFish> ah, well I have kdenlive's channel, I'll see if any of their devs are about, or how to contact them
[21:21] <Riddell> hola toscalix
[21:25] <toscalix> hola
[21:25] <toscalix> Riddell: hola
[21:28] <Quintasan> ARGH
[21:28] <Quintasan> Android really sucks sometimes and I have no luck running Kubuntu on top of Transformer
[21:28] <Quintasan> Cursed CrOS kernel
[21:29] <Quintasan> Hmm, more like cursed Asus GPT hacks
[21:31] <Quintasan> BarkingFish: SRU upload should contain only the minimal set of changes required to fix the issue, we could either put new version in backports or just cherry-pick the upstream patches that fix the issue and request SRU
[21:32] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: Sill no luck with the CrOS kernel, lilstevie told me one can boot it off an sdcard but I do not have a spare one with me atm and I am broke :(((
[21:32]  * Quintasan curses his budget
[21:33] <Quintasan> or, more precisely - no budget
[21:33] <BarkingFish> Quintasan: The second option sounds like the best idea - it seems silly to have a live version busted, and a working one held back for people to find if they ask about it :)
[21:34] <Quintasan> BarkingFish: Then I think you could ask upstream what how long ago the issue was fixed (or even better, ask them for the exact commit) and try looking for the code changed and create a patch
[21:34] <Quintasan> Do the packaging magic and ask us to review and upload :)
[21:35] <BarkingFish> i've requested contact from one of the kdenlive devs in #kdenlive, so as soon as I can raise one and find where the commit was that fixed it, i'll sort it out
[21:35] <BarkingFish> it appears most are probably asleep now, it's approaching 11pm in Europe
[21:35] <BarkingFish> i'll try and catch them again in the morning
[21:36] <Quintasan> I though IT specialist work during night and sleep in the morning :P
[21:36]  * Quintasan is studying right now
[21:36] <Quintasan> I presume they are out of caffeine :D
[21:36]  * Quintasan goes to grab some tea
[21:41] <BarkingFish> thankfully, I don't have that problem.  I'm never out of coffee.  If I woke up in the morning without coffee, it'd be an unpleasant day... for everyone else :)
[21:42] <yofel> BarkingFish: btw. the bug for this was bug 863186 - use it for the SRU (and read the sru procedure)
[21:44] <BarkingFish> ok, I'll do that probably in the morning, I'm on a slow net connection here atm, and can just about hang on to IRC :)
[21:53] <Quintasan> yofel, So, will you be up for setting up this Tracks thingy?
[21:53] <yofel> Quintasan: sounds interesting enough for to give it a try, but as I said, friday soonest
[21:54] <yofel> *for me
[21:54] <Quintasan> Cool, I do not really fancy using old version hosted God knows where
[21:55] <Quintasan> If something I can always rm -rf data from your PC ;P
[23:23] <ryanakca> JontheEchidna: Did you see http://lists.debian.org/debian-qt-kde/2011/11/msg00096.html ?
[23:29] <JontheEchidna> ryanakca: I hadn't, thanks