[16:57] <Tumie> hey johnc4510 :)
[16:57] <Tumie> why you're 24/7 online? do you don't need any sleep ? XD
[16:58] <Tumie> (omg.. do you don't :P )
[16:58] <tyche> He's like me.  The computer runs all the time.
[21:39] <LirazSiri> hi guys, I dropped by earlier this week to try to discuss ways to contribute to the UWN team. I proof-read the last version of UWN and figured there might also be other ways I could pitch in...
[21:39] <LirazSiri> Is anyone around?
[21:44] <Tumie> i'm here now LiraSiri, you can get news, (in the press an dblogospere).. and if you're language isn't only english, you can translate the UWN :)
[21:44] <Tumie> getting news is the most importent part of the UWN
[21:44] <LirazSiri> Hi tumie, I'm just talking to tyche about that.
[21:44] <LirazSiri> where do you guys put the news you find? straight into UWN?
[21:45] <LirazSiri> I mean the UWN wiki...
[21:45] <tyche> I usually work outside of the wiki, in a text file, then copy and paste it into the wiki.
[21:45] <Tumie> maybe we can make an /Incoming page..
[21:46] <LirazSiri> what are your sources for news?
[21:46] <Tumie> every week make it empty, so everybody can put their news into it
[21:46] <LirazSiri> that sounds like a good idea, and then maybe someone in a more editorial role can make a decision about what goes in and what stays out...
[21:47] <tyche> Enough of it is segmented that we can work independently.  Links to news articles can be done in sections.  I work from a template I created, partly from the raw wiki, and partly from instructions that I got from johnc4510
[21:47] <Tumie> i'm just translating the whole thing into dutch
[21:48] <LirazSiri> I'm bilingual but the only other language I know is hebrew and I suspect the audience for UWN in hebrew is miniscule.
[21:48] <tyche> One of the reasons that I work in a text file is that the wiki doesn't hold the edit page open for very long.  By working in a text file, I can take as long as I need, then dump it in in just a minute or two.  I also avoid conflicting with others that are working on the UWN at the same time.
[21:49] <LirazSiri> tyche: that sounds like a good approach
[21:49]  * Tumie is going to sleep..
[21:49]  * Tumie says everybody goodbye
[21:49]  * LirazSiri says goodbye to Tumie
[21:49] <Tumie> it is 22:49 here, rightnow :P
[21:49] <tyche> Tumie: Night.


[00:02] <Mooncairn> Having trouble finding anything.
[00:02] <Mooncairn> Under my normal user account, it's usually an assertion failure of some kind. One of them was an attempt to grab an atomic lock.
[00:06] <Mooncairn> g_atomic_ref_count_inc: assertion 'old_value > 0' failed
[00:06] <Mooncairn> followed by a seg fault
[00:08] <cmaloney> Under the new account what does it do?
[00:08] <Mooncairn> Same thing. That log quote was from the new account.
[00:09] <Mooncairn> The segfault appears to happen in libglib-2.0.so, so I'm looking for issue reports for that package.
[00:11] <Mooncairn> Nothing.
[00:12] <Mooncairn> I think I'm going to just deal with it for now unless the problem spreads.
[00:12] <Mooncairn> In the meantime, I'll experiment with Mint and popos under VMs and see how I like them.
[00:14] <cmaloney> hoping it can give you an actionable error because that's ridiculous.
[00:25] <Mooncairn> Well, whatever is going on Canonical may have some of that info somewhere. I've had automatic error reports turned on.
[00:27] <Mooncairn> Yea, there's a full crash dump include stack trace sitting in /var/crash that got uploaded to Canonical.
[00:32] <cmaloney> Good


[00:54] <PCPDCG> what an untalkative channel
[01:02] <EvilResistance> PCPDCG:  if you need support, #ubuntu.  for random talk, #ubuntu-offtopic
[01:03] <EvilResistance> the classroom isnt really one of the main support channels
[10:10] <jasox> does anyone know where is indicators icons , in ubuntu 11.10
[10:10] <jasox> i want to create indicator for redmine in python
[10:20] <jasox> i fount it :) /usr/share/icons/ubuntu-mono-light/
[23:01] <paulolieuthier> hello there
[23:02] <incisso> Hello


[01:54] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[02:58] <marcoagpinto> morning!
[03:00] <daftykins> hide your colas, people!
[03:03] <marcoagpinto> it is the little demon here!
[03:03] <marcoagpinto> :)
[03:04] <daftykins> i had a fine bottle of cherry coca cola the other day btw
[07:01] <ducasse> good morning
[14:48] <akupedia> hello world, what is the topic of discussion here?
[14:48] <ogra> anything around ubuntu
[14:50] <akupedia> awesome, how's 21.04 is it faster than 20.10 by any means?
[14:53] <akupedia> i also need to know on a 4 year old hardware is btrfs better than ext4 for 21.04 hirsuite hippo by any chance or getting back to ext4 is good or not?
[14:55] <akupedia> like does it make any difference by any means? switching back to btrfs?
[14:56] <ogra> just in that ext4 gets far more attantion by the ubuntu devs ... being the default
[14:56] <ogra> *attention
[14:58] <akupedia> i see so ext4 is the preferred file system, okay.
[14:58] <akupedia> which is also the default one btw...
[17:06] <JanC> if you don't (really) need any specific features from btrfs, ext4 is probably best
[17:07] <JanC> (same applies to other filesystems)
[19:43] <TJ-> How's the move to Libera going?
[19:47] <sarnold> aside from the new paint smell you might not really notice anything
[19:51] <TJ-> Are people redirecting OK? I was wondering about the various Wiki/Help pages that mention Freenode. Is there a plan to update those? I did my articles
[19:52] <sarnold> when I left leenode it felt like there was much less traffic there and much more traffic here
[19:52] <sarnold> it might never be gone, but that's okay, if there's folks who like the way he runs the place and they can help each other, best of luck to em
[19:55] <ogra> i have been redirecting quite a few people from ##ubuntu over to libera ... the ##ubuntu channel is now down to 127ppl losing users daily
[19:55] <sarnold> \o/ thanks ogra :)
[20:44] <Chunkyz-RPi> ogra: ##ubuntu is now invite only too.
[20:44] <Chunkyz-RPi> My znc disconnected and now can't join.
[20:45] <ogra> really ? #ubuntu should auto-redirect you
[20:45] <Chunkyz-RPi> Stupid freenode!
[20:46] <Chunkyz-RPi> Says invite only and doesn't redirect
[20:46] <ogra> ah ... good
[20:46] <jeremy31> Send a email complaint to the clown prince of freenode
[20:46] <Chunkyz-RPi> Good? How is that good?
[20:46] <Chunkyz-RPi> Lol
[20:47] <ogra> because people will have to look up whats up instead of getting bad advice from some trolls or being spammed by bitcoin bots
[20:47] <Chunkyz-RPi> K


[01:59] <qwebirc70801> Hi, Does Mythbuntu include a DLNA server. If not has anyone added this function and can recommend a way to go about this. Thank you kindly.
[02:01] <patdk-lap> dlna, no, but upnp yes
[02:01] <patdk-lap> it's good enough dlna server for most things
[02:01] <patdk-lap> normally my issue is, disabling it
[02:02] <qwebirc70801> Great. Thank you. Do you know of a full feature list anywhere, i have had  trouble finding one.
[02:03] <patdk-lap> no idea
[02:03] <patdk-lap> works good enough for my wd live, and seagate theatre
[02:03] <patdk-lap> but find them annoying, and normally just use a samba share instead
[02:04] <qwebirc70801> kk. Just want to ensure stored media is able to be shared to my flatmates on a PS3, Xbox 360 and WMPC.
[02:06] <qwebirc70801> Might try to mash in PS3 Media Server just to be safe.
[03:59] <Shadow__X> anyone connect an older projection style tv to a computer through component?
[05:13] <mycosys> yep Shadow__X
[05:13] <mycosys> working gorgeously
[05:43] <Shadow__X> mycosys: yeah? my issue is i keep seeing the scan lines move up the screen
[05:43] <Shadow__X> i have a sony kp51w510
[05:47] <lucas-arg> hello, im tryin to make work an usb analog tv decoder (kw-ub405-a afatech chip) under mythtv... or any other program under ubuntu... any ideas????
[05:51] <Shadow__X> lucas-arg: did you check it was supported
[17:14] <mycosys> try moving the cables Shadow__X - that is generally interference
[18:45] <darkdrgn2k> hi all
[18:45] <darkdrgn2k> trying to isntasll mythbuntu , booted the ISO but its stuck ont he mythbuntu screen with the 4 dots


[00:01] <jelmer> enigma42, sorry, back now
[00:01] <jelmer> enigma42, see privmsg
[00:04] <jelmer> enigma42, sorry you seem to be hitting the jackpot of bzr-svn bugs :_(
[00:05] <enigma42> jelmer: :-) No problem.
[00:05] <enigma42> jelmer: I'm happy to report them so they won't be bugs anymore. :-D
[00:06] <jfroy|work> might have seen this issue before myself
[00:06] <jfroy|work> somewhat curious about it
[00:06] <jfroy|work> I'm still using my alternate prefix hack to work around possibly invalid bzr-svn properties :/
[00:07] <jelmer> jfroy|work, is there a bug open about that?
[00:07] <jfroy|work> jelmer: never investigated in depth the problems. It's more of a speculative hack, in the sense that I used early versions of 0.5 at some point which may have written now-invalid properties.
[00:08] <hughesw> it's really odd, old old versions of bzr-svn can pull down from this repo without issue (0.4.9 in hardy for instance) but 0.4.16 crashes when making local branches and it looks like enigma42's got 0.5 crashing on the actual svn branch
[00:08] <jfroy|work> Until and if I can dump and reload the repository, there's no much else to be done.
[00:11] <jelmer> jfroy|work, can you send me that hack? Should give me some idea as to what's going wrong?
[00:12] <jfroy|work> jelmer: it's nothing like that. I merely changed the prefix from bzr to bz2, such that all previous bzr-svn attributes, including the potentially invalid alpha 0.5 ones, are effectively ignored.
[00:12] <jfroy|work> Been using the last build of 0.4 for months with that modification without any issues.
[00:14] <enigma42> jfroy|work: That hack is clever...I was wondering what I might be able to do for bad 0.4.x metadata.
[00:19] <jfroy|work> enigma42: yeah, it worked remarkably well.
[00:19] <jfroy|work> Forces people interfacing with that repository to use a custom branch of bzr-svn.
[00:19] <jfroy|work> A better solution would be to add a property that bzr-svn could check first, say bzr:bzr-svn-prefix
[00:20] <jelmer> jfroy|work, any chance you can try again with a vanilla bzr-svn 0.5 ? It would be nice to get this sort of thing fixed before 0.5.0
[00:20] <jfroy|work> which it would read from the most recent revision. That way, the prefix for all clients could be changed by the repository itself, versus a code change.
[00:20] <jfroy|work> jelmer: I'll give it a try.
[00:21] <jfroy|work> What's your release schedule? I should get enough time to do a useful test next week.
[00:21] <jelmer> Before the end of january basically
[00:24] <jfroy|work> That's pretty tight, might not be able to generate good enough data. But we'll see.
[00:24] <jfroy|work> I'll try to live a few days on mainline 0.5, and hopefully any issues will pop up.
[00:25] <jfroy|work> Note that this isn't a case of just migrating from 0.4 to 0.5. The svn repository involved has pre-release 0.5 properties as well.
[00:25] <jelmer> jfroy|work, Just doing a clone with bzr-svn should demonstrate that problem if you've hit it in the past
[00:26] <enigma42> jfroy|work: I've been living on mainline 0.5 since mid-december. It's been good!
[00:26] <enigma42> jfroy|work: revprops are the best!
[00:27] <enigma42> jfroy|work: I was just able to fixup a metadata error this morning because I'm using revprops now.
[00:35] <jfroy|work> enigma42: sadly the svn server we're using is still 1.4
[00:35] <jfroy|work> no revprop for me :|
[00:38] <enigma42> jfroy|work: We have a 1.4 server, but revprops are enabled.
[00:38] <jfroy|work> oh?
[00:38] <jfroy|work> I could have sworn that was a 1.5 feature
[00:38] <enigma42> Yeah.
[00:38] <enigma42> Well, we're hosted on collabnet.
[00:39] <jfroy|work> Secret sauce huh
[00:39] <enigma42> I guess.
[00:39] <jfroy|work> bzr-svn is using properties on the root directory of branches, at least as far as I can tell.
[00:40] <jelmer> jfroy|work, yes
[00:40] <jfroy|work> on my repository, I mean
[00:40] <jfroy|work> so they're not revprops. AFAIK Trac doesn't display revprops anywhere in its SCM browser module.
[00:42] <jelmer> jfroy|work, I'm not sure what causes a server to support revision properties during commit
[00:42] <jelmer> jfroy|work, bzr-svn just looks at what capabilities the server has
[00:42] <jfroy|work> jelmer: neither am I
[00:43] <jelmer> maybe a later 1.4 point release?
[00:47] <enigma42> Since it's on collabnet, it could be some special svn code.
[00:53] <LaserJock> anybody know if there's a branch format/bzr version chart or table?
[00:55] <enigma42> I just read "bzr help upgrade"
[00:56] <nDuff> "bzr help formats", "bzr help current-formats" and "bzr help other-formats" should be helpful; I don't know about a table.
[00:58] <nDuff> ...both current-formats and other-formats include information on when the given formats were introduced
[00:58] <LaserJock> nDuff: I don't have either of those
[00:59] <LaserJock> just bzr help formats
[00:59] <LaserJock> a table would be nice though, to decide whether to upgrade or not
[00:59] <nDuff> in current versions, "bzr help formats" has textual guidance on whether to upgrade
[01:00] <nDuff> ...it's also in a mailing list post somewhere, and I should be able to do a quick pastebin...
[01:00] <nDuff> http://pastebin.ca/1316514
[01:02] <LaserJock> hmm
[01:02] <LaserJock> that's sort of helpful
[01:02] <LaserJock> but it kind of assumes you standarize around a bzr version
[01:03] <LaserJock> rockstar: around?
[01:04] <rockstar> LaserJock, yes, but my wife is hungry, so not for long.
[01:04] <rockstar> What's up?
[01:04] <LaserJock> rockstar: do you know of any plan to have downloadable tarballs of bzr revisions?
[01:05] <LaserJock> rockstar: seems like that would really speed up "branching" in some cases
[01:05] <rockstar> LaserJock, what do you mean?
[01:05] <rockstar> Do you want just a tarball of the current up to date bzr branch's working tree?
[01:05] <LaserJock> rockstar: meaning, like github, you could select a revision and LP would give you a tarball to download
[01:06] <LaserJock> no, not the working tree, the .bzr
[01:06] <rockstar> Someone asked a question about that recently, but we hadn't talked about it at all.
[01:06] <LaserJock> k
[01:06] <rockstar> LaserJock, I don't see where the speed up really is there.
[01:06] <LaserJock> just struck me as I sit here for an hour trying to branch something ;-)
[01:06] <rockstar> Either way, you're downloading it.
[01:06] <rockstar> LaserJock, what are you trying to branch?
[01:07] <LaserJock> yeah, but bzr is a lot slower than just rsync/wget a tarball of .bzr
[01:07] <LaserJock> rockstar: lp:gnome-app-install
[01:07] <rockstar> LaserJock, it's taking you an hour to branch 637 revisions?
[01:08] <LaserJock> something like that
[01:08] <LaserJock> I'm not timing well
[01:08] <LaserJock> I need to alias bzr to time bzr :-)
[01:09] <rockstar> LaserJock, hm, I suspect there's something amiss here.  Without a shared repo, I can branch 1000 revisions relatively quickly.
[01:09] <LaserJock> it's because it's in an ancient format I believe
[01:09] <rockstar> LaserJock, ah, that might be.
[01:09] <LaserJock> I seem to always hit on those
[01:09] <LaserJock> I don't understand how I end up so cursed with bzr
[01:10] <LaserJock> just my lot in VCS-life I guess :-)
[01:10] <LaserJock> rockstar: can I do one of these new stacked branch thingies with it?
[01:10] <LaserJock> or does the repo have to be in a certain format for that
[01:10] <rockstar> Not if it's in an ancient format.  You need 1.6 or better.
[01:11] <jelmer> jfroy|work, YOu had installed subvertpy manually as well right?
[01:11] <LaserJock> man, I can't tell if it's frozen or something
[01:11] <LaserJock> the "wheel" isn't spinning or anything
[01:13] <rockstar> Yea, bzr does have issues with demonstrating it's actually doing something.
[01:22] <enigma42> jelmer: Does "bzr svn-upgrade" move everything to revprops if possible?
[01:23] <jelmer> enigma42, nope. There is a svn-set-revprops command that intends to do that, but it's hidden, experimental and doesn't have a testsuite yet.
[01:23] <enigma42> OK.
[01:24] <enigma42> Yeah, it will be nice to retrofit my svn repos to only use revprops.
[01:24] <jelmer> enigma42,  bzr-svn will at least only use revprops for new revisions
[01:24] <enigma42> Ignore some of that crufty data stuck in file properties.
[01:25] <enigma42> jelmer: New error
[01:25] <enigma42> jelmer: bzr: ERROR: bzrlib.errors.BzrCheckError: Internal check failed: Newly created pack file <bzrlib.repofmt.pack_repo.NewPack object at 0xa41c8ac> has delta references to items not in its repository:
[01:25] <jelmer> :-( Please pastebin
[01:25] <enigma42> OK
[01:26] <enigma42> jelmer: Oh...the branching worked great, BTW.
[01:26] <enigma42> This was after branching from SVN was over.
[01:26] <jelmer> ah, this is running "bzr check" ?
[01:26] <enigma42> I did a local branch.
[01:26] <enigma42> bzr branch svn-branch local-branch
[01:26] <enigma42> specifically: bzr branch des-dw-harmony foobar
[01:28] <enigma42> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/108822/
[01:29] <enigma42> My coworker tells me he's been seeing this error since he upgraded to bzr-svn 0.4.17 on Monday.
[01:29] <enigma42> Actually...correction.
[01:29] <enigma42> (03:24:58 PM) hughesw: monday. after updating to bzr 1.10 and bzr-svn 0.4.16 from the package on the bazaar site.
[01:29] <enigma42> bzr-svn 0.4.16
[01:30] <hughesw> yeah...
[01:30] <hughesw> there's some revisions from a local branch that don't seem to have been pushed up to the repository
[01:34] <hughesw> I can see the hughesw@hughesws2k8-20090121211631-kx8io79zatxfxjhc commit ID in my local trunk on my work machine, but it's not in the repository.
[01:34] <jelmer> enigma42, what happens if you run "bzr check" in the original branch?
[01:34] <hughesw> jelmer: when I did that with 0.4.16 it crashed on me.
[01:34] <jelmer> hughesw, with what error?
[01:35] <hughesw> let me check again
[01:35] <jelmer> similar to the one pasted above?
[01:35] <hughesw> sorry, the error's on a different machine, reproducing it here real fast.
[01:36] <enigma42> jelmer: ...still running bzr check...
[01:37] <enigma42> jelmer: see privmsg
[01:38] <enigma42> This concerns me:
[01:38] <enigma42>     20 ghost revisions
[01:38] <enigma42>     20 revisions missing parents in ancestry
[01:38] <enigma42>     12 inconsistent parents
[01:38] <jelmer> ghost revisions are not necessarily bad, they are just revisions to which there are references but that are not present in the repository
[01:38] <hughesw> check crashed on me again
[01:39] <hughesw> I privmsg'd you jelmer
[01:39] <jelmer> hughesw, thanks
[01:39] <hughesw> it also crashes on 0.4.17 with the same message
[01:39] <enigma42> jelmer: Oh...fwiw: I'm on bzr 1.11 with bleeding edge 0.5
[01:39] <hughesw> since I updated to that with my home machine after it died the first time
[01:45] <jelmer> lifeless, ping
[02:20] <hayalci> Hi, I think it would be great if bazaar web page stated bazaar hosting options, like launchpad and savannah.
[02:21] <hayalci> That info is presented nicely on git web site and it probably makes an impact
[02:21] <Peng_> jelmer: FWIW, the repo from my old bzr-svn import said there was one ghost. The new one says there are no ghosts, but 158 inconsistent parents. :)
[02:21] <Peng_> Inconsistent parents should not be created anymore, should they?
[04:32] <lifeless> jelmer: jo
[04:32] <jelmer> lifeless, in this error: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/108822/
[04:33] <jelmer> what are the "delta references" ? The delta parents ?
[04:33] <jelmer> hi, btw :-)
[04:33] <lifeless> they are basis texts for delta compression
[04:34] <jelmer> so how can that error occur if that branch was created by just calling VF.add_lines() ?
[04:34] <lifeless> should be impossible
[04:34] <lifeless> unless its stacked; there was a bug in stacking at one point
[04:36] <lifeless> could be a bug in the checking code I guess if it is checkin graph not delta fields
[04:36] <jelmer> yeah, that's what I'm wondering
[04:36] <jelmer> since the text revisions there are from a ghost revision
[04:36] <jelmer> but the texts are actually there
[06:29] <jfroy> how does one setup a remote branch so people that bzr send to it will get an email automagically?
[06:29] <jfroy> I thought it would be enough to have an email setting in a properly configured localtions.conf section, but apparently not.
[07:51] <jfroy> Ok, the setting in questionis child_submit_to
[07:52] <jfroy> Doesn't seem to be a way to bulk set it on a group (or directory) of branches :|
[11:18] <mikey_p> got a question about the internal workings of bzr+ssh, how does the directory to serve get passed to the remote machine?
[11:19] <mikey_p> i.e. if I do bzr branch bzr+ssh://hostname/path/to/file all that gets passed to remote server as an ssh command is "bzr serve --inet --directory=/ --allow-writes"
[11:20] <mikey_p> how does path/to/file get passed to the remote machine?
[11:37] <fullermd> Over stdin after the server starts up.
[12:12] <mikey_p> fullermd: then why the empty directory arg at startup?
[12:25] <fullermd> Because serv takes an arg describing how high in the tree it's allowed to go.
[12:27] <dereine> is there a tutorial how to use bazaar for web development automatic update of the checkout on a test server, which has only ftp acess
[12:56] <AfC> dereine: not sure you need a tutorial for that. Just try doing it. Should work. You _might_ find the bzr-upload plugin of value.
[13:17] <fullermd> Oh, there's training involved.  It takes some practice to get just the right angle for yanking out the fingernails of whoever setup a server with only FTP access.
[14:19] <etenil> Hi there
[14:20] <etenil> I'm used to subversion and just switched to bazaar
[14:21] <etenil> I usually stored the stable releases of my projects as tags in the subversion directory, but I don't find the equivalent in bzr
[14:21] <Peng_> "bzr tag"?
[14:21] <etenil> really?
[14:22] <etenil> I didn't see that in the doc
[14:22] <Peng_> Bazaar supports tags, but they aren't implemented as directory copies as in Subversion.
[14:22] <etenil> Oooooohhhh
[14:22] <etenil> I've got the one paragraph
[14:22] <etenil> seems I overlooked it ^^
[14:23] <etenil> thanks a lot Peng_
[14:23] <Peng_> :)
[14:23] <etenil> er, that's a big documentation, for once I can't complain ;)
[14:25] <jelmer> jfroy, child_submit_to is what you're looking for
[14:25] <etenil> is it possible to fix a bug in a tag too
[14:25] <Peng_> etenil: What? You can tag any revision you want to?
[14:26] <etenil> I mean, if I make a stable release and then work on the next one. If I make a security fix on the stable one (tagged), how should I proceed then?
[14:27] <etenil> if I commit the fixed old one, it's gonna interfere with the development of the new version.
[14:29] <Peng_> "bzr branch -r tag:foo-1.2.3 foo.dev fix-vuln; cd fix-vuln; hackhack; bzr commit; bzr tag foo-<IP_ADDRESS>; cd ../foo.dev; bzr merge ../fix-vuln", maybe?
[14:31] <etenil> thx peng_
[14:31] <etenil> i'll have a further look.
[15:22] <kfogel> I'm having a conversation with a GNU/Savannah admin over at https://savannah.gnu.org/support/index.php?106612, about converting the Emacs project over from CVS to bzr (which Emacs has decided to do, but hasn't actually done yet).  The admin says: "Given that bzr works on top of sftp, what's the point in having bzr even installed at Savannah?"
[15:23] <Peng_> kfogel: To make it faster?
[15:23] <LarstiQ> kfogel: administration and speed
[15:23] <kfogel> I'm kind of new to bzr, so I'm not sure I understand that.  Does he mean that bzr clients can upload bundles (or something?) via sftp, and there need be NO bzr running on the server end?
[15:23] <kfogel> Peng_, LarstiQ: thank you.  So one *can* do it the way he says, but it's inefficient?
[15:24] <Peng_> kfogel: Sure, using plain old SFTP as the server works perfectly; it's just not as fast.
[15:24] <kfogel> what kind of speed difference are we talking about?
[15:25] <Peng_> I don't know. A lot of operations still don't take advantage of the smart server, making them almost as slow as SFTP.
[15:25] <LarstiQ> kfogel: it varies with what exactly you are trying to do. But 'dumb' transports like sftp are used with only vfs operations like open(), stat(), read() and write(), on a .bzr level
[15:26] <LarstiQ> kfogel: whereas with bzr on the server (bzr+ssh or as a daemon) you can do things like 'Branch.last_revision_info'
[15:26] <kfogel> So there's a feature difference too?
[15:26] <Peng_> kfogel: No.
[15:26] <LarstiQ> well
[15:26] <LarstiQ> there is, but not on this level
[15:27] <LarstiQ> kfogel: I personally use sftp a lot.
[15:27] <kfogel> Uh.
[15:27] <kfogel> Would you ever recommend the sftp method for people who are *not* (and are not going to be) bzr experts?
[15:27] <kfogel> :-)
[15:27] <LarstiQ> kfogel: the main feature difference is that you can not run server side hooks with sftp, but you can when bzr is on the server
[15:27] <Peng_> kfogel: It's faster to have the server read the files and send back the data you want than for the client to read the files over the Internet, even if the same information can be obtained either way.
[15:27] <kfogel> I'm not referring to myself, but to the Savannah admins.
[15:28] <kfogel> Peng_: makes perfect sense -- thanks.
[15:28] <kfogel> LarstiQ: okay, good to know.  We do, in fact, need to run server-side hooks.
[15:28] <kfogel> So sftp-only is a non-starter.
[15:29] <LarstiQ> kfogel: my advice to the Savannah admin would indeed be to offer more than sftp-only, even though I get the 'no work for me' appeal as a sysadmin ;)
[15:29] <kfogel> heh, sure :-)
[15:29] <LarstiQ> kfogel: git afaik, but hg certainly, can also use dumb transports. But the users will lynch you if you are not running the daemon, since it is utterly slow otherwise.
[15:30] <LarstiQ> kfogel: if he needs help btw, I'm willing to offer it
[15:30] <kfogel> I seriously wonder why the tools even offer these options.  It's not worth the confusion to non-expert users.
[15:30] <kfogel> LarstiQ: wow, thank you
[15:31] <Peng_> LarstiQ: AFAIK, hg only supports dumb HTTP, not SFTP.
[15:31] <Peng_> And the HTTP is probably read-only.
[15:31] <LarstiQ> kfogel: you'd be surprised at the amount of users that only have an FTP server available to them :/
[15:31] <kfogel> LarstiQ: if you are really interested (and this may mean a serious commitment), privmsg me your email addr and I'll make sure the Savannah admins have it.
[15:31] <LarstiQ> kfogel: how serious a commitment?
[15:32]  * LarstiQ does already have a fulltime job
[15:32] <kfogel> LarstiQ: I don't know, really.  Maybe I'm being overly dramatic -- possibly Savannah just needs someone they can consult.
[15:32] <Peng_> LarstiQ: The goons with black ski masks are already on their way to kidnap you. ;)
[15:32] <LarstiQ> Peng_: hah! :P
[15:32] <kfogel> LarstiQ: anyway, as a volunteer, you don't need to do more than you have time for, obviously.  So it's up to you!
[15:34] <LarstiQ> kfogel: any irc channel I could hang out in?
[15:37] <kfogel> LarstiQ: most of the activity is on the<EMAIL_ADDRESS>mailing list and on that bug ticket I referred to earlier.  The ticket has mail links.
[15:37] <LarstiQ> ok
[15:39] <LarstiQ> kfogel: I see the admin would also like a loggerhead init script
[15:40] <Peng_> There is a Loggerhead init script.
[15:40] <LarstiQ> Peng_: afaik that does not use server-branches?
[15:40] <kfogel> LarstiQ: I'm about to let him know that you're offering some help.
[15:40] <LarstiQ> kfogel: and I'm happy to see it's Debian based, I'll feel right at home ;)
[15:43] <Peng_> It uses serve-branches.
[16:05]  * LarstiQ tries the last attempt at fixing the router
[16:05] <jelmer> Peng_, It doesn't abide by the Debian/Ubuntu policy though, so I ship a different one in the Debian package
[16:07] <Peng_> jelmer: Oh? What's wrong with it?
[16:10]  * jelmer looks for the list of problems he sent earlier
[16:10] <jelmer> Peng_, Doesn't use start-stop-daemon but sudo, doesn't use the pidfile but greps through the process list (potentially killing user-started loggerhead processes), doesn't use /etc/default/loggerheadd but requires configuration in /etc/init.d/loggerheadd, init script blocks, assumes that if something is running on the configured loggerhead port it is loggerhead, ...
[16:11] <Peng_> Heh.
[16:12] <Peng_> Oh, your script uses start-loggerhead though.
[16:22] <Lo-lan-do> I may have missed some context, but there's a branch with a mostly correct (if crude) initsript at http://bzr.debian.org/loggerhead/users/lolando/loggerhead/daemonise
[16:26] <Peng_> Ergh, *another* one?
[16:28] <Peng_> Someone needs to throw all of the Loggerhead init scripts in a blender and make a perfect one. :D
[16:32] <jelmer> Peng_, Well, basically the equivalent of the Debian one that uses serve-branches instead of start-loggerhead
[16:33] <jelmer> Lo-lan-do, I hope to merge yours once start-loggerhead is removed upstream and serve-branches has its own configuration file
[16:33] <Peng_> Oh, ok.
[16:35] <LarstiQ> so now we need someone to act as upstream.
[16:36] <jelmer> beuno, IIUC this is what upstream intends to do
[16:36]  * jelmer wonders if beuno is around
[16:40] <beuno> jelmer, I'm really *not* here
[16:40] <beuno> but
[16:40] <beuno> serve-branches will have a config file soon
[16:40] <beuno> and we will kill start-lh for evar
[16:40] <jelmer> \o/
[16:40] <beuno> and merge whatever you guys thing is the best deamonizer
[16:40]  * Lo-lan-do cheers
[16:41] <beuno> now, back to not being here...
[16:41] <Lo-lan-do> This is not the beuno you are looking for.
[16:41] <beuno> :)
[16:41] <fullermd> We're all right there not with you on that!
[19:24] <dereine> how can i pull and overwrite to the current state at a remote branch?
[19:29] <jelmer> dereine, bzr pull --overwrite
[19:31] <dereine> thx
[20:08] <LarstiQ> jelmer: could pkg-bazaar-maint receive less spam maybe?
[20:08] <jelmer> LarstiQ, how?
[20:08] <jelmer> I'm all for it :-)
[20:08] <LarstiQ> jelmer: disallowing non-subscribed posters?
[20:08] <LarstiQ> or does that raise the bar unacceptably for drive by contributions
[20:09] <LarstiQ> or maybe the spammers are already subscribing?
[20:41] <jelmer> LarstiQ, yeah, that may be a good idea
[22:30] <Goosey> hello. I am looking to use a DVCS as a local tool in an SVN environment, for ramping local changes/branches prior to SVN committing them. I am on windowsXP. Bazaar's good svn support and windows packages led me to give it a try, but I am having some issues.
[22:31] <Goosey> If I do any local commits and then pull commits from the SVN repo, when I try to push I cannot and am advised to rebase
[22:31] <Goosey> I installed the rebase plugin, but using it says there are no changes to rebase.
[22:32] <Goosey> So I am a bit confused to what I am doing wronge or where to go next. :)
[22:32] <Lo-lan-do> When you do local commits, you shouldn't normally be able to pull from SVN.  Did you mean you merged from SVN instead?
[22:33] <Goosey> No, I mean 'bzr pull'
[22:34] <Lo-lan-do> Maybe I'm missing something, but I think you can't pull when there have been commits both locally and remotely since the last common ancestor.
[22:37] <Goosey> i am sorry, you are right. 'bzr pull' warns the branches have diverged, so i use 'bzr merge' to pull the changes in
[22:37] <Goosey> and then a 'bzr commit' to commit the merge results
[22:38] <Goosey> and finally 'bzr push' to the svn repo, which is where I get the 'please rebase' error
[22:39] <Lo-lan-do> I see.  I don't know exactly how to fix that, but you may consider using another workflow that seems to work for me.
[22:39] <Goosey> ok, which workflow do you use?
[22:39] <Lo-lan-do> I have a bzr branch bound to svn, and other "floating" bzr branches based on it.
[22:40] <Lo-lan-do> When I need to push stuff from a local branch to SVN, I merge that branch into the svn-bound branch and commit.
[22:41] <Lo-lan-do> I do bzr update from time to time in the svn-bound branch to bring it up-to-date with what's in svn, and push or merge into the others according to the situation.
[22:47] <Goosey> hmm i gave this setup a try but ran into the same issue, Lo-lan-do
[22:48] <Lo-lan-do> Then I'm afraid I'm not enough of a bzr guru to be of significant help :-/
[22:48] <Goosey> I did a SVNRepo bound branch 'A' and branched from that 'B'. Then I made some local commits into B, made some SVN repo commits from elsewhere, pulled those into A, merged those into B, and commited B, and on pushing B the error :/
[22:48] <Goosey> am I missing a subtlety of how your workflow works?
[22:49] <Lo-lan-do> Try merging B into A (or pulling) instead of pushing maybe.
[22:51] <Goosey> ok that worked
[22:52] <Goosey> iiiinteresting
[22:54] <Lo-lan-do> I'll leave you with the wizards for the explanation, but in the meantime at least you can commit :-)
[22:55]  * Lo-lan-do → sleep
[22:55] <Goosey> enjoy sleep :_)
[23:36] <cody-somerville> Hey
[23:36] <cody-somerville> I can't install bzrtools from the bzr ppa
[23:36] <cody-somerville> bzrtools: Depends: bzr (< 1.11~) but 1.11-1~bazaar1~hardy1 is to be installed


[05:24]  * paddatrapper blinks
[05:24] <paddatrapper> Morning everyone
[05:38] <thatgraemeguy> morning peoples
[06:01] <inetpro> good morning everyone
[06:04] <Kilos> hi d`_`b
[06:04] <Kilos> welcome to ubuntu-za
[06:06] <Kilos> morning inetpro superfly paddatrapper theblazehen thatgraemeguy MaNI chesedo andrewlsd and all others too
[06:14] <paddatrapper> Hey Kilos.   You?
[09:36] <dlPhreak> Pretty swell thanks paddatrapper
[09:37] <dlPhreak> Are you new here or am I oblivious?
[09:38] <dlPhreak> I don't come here very often and when I am here I just idle so I don't really pay attention to who comes and goes..
[09:51] <jerit> is it weird or awesome that this is really the only channel I care about being in anymore aside from #web-social?
[09:54] <MaNI> depends on your occupation I guess - if you are a programmer then I would say yes thats pretty odd, if not then it probably isn't that strange
[09:54] <Kilos> that one or #ubuntu-za
[09:55] <jerit> Kilos these are the only 2 channels I care about being in
[09:56] <Kilos> what is that one about
[09:56] <jerit> MaNI not all that strange really. They treat me like crap in ##csharp and in other channels its normally dead quiet so...
[09:56] <Kilos> just socialising?
[09:56] <jerit> yeah
[09:56] <jerit> they've helped me a lot with a bunch of stuff though... good bunch of guys
[09:57] <Kilos> well if you can give and receive help then all good
[10:02] <MaNI> I'd expect most programmers who IRC to be in several channels simply because they are likely to use several libraries.
[10:03] <MaNI>  e.g. I am #wxWidgets because I use that library, I very seldom need to talk in there but it is pretty rude to join only when you need to ask a question and then immediately leave, so I hang around and occasionally even answer questions.
[10:03] <MaNI> I guess it depends though *shrug*
[10:03] <Kilos> nice to hear that MaNI
[10:04] <Kilos> i also think its rude
[10:05] <MaNI> especially for smaller projects who don't have lots of people
[10:05] <MaNI> if it's something like #postgresql where the text is constantly scrolling then it's a bit different
[10:08] <jerit> MaNI I used to hang around and answer questions (when I could) in #csharp but one of the guys in there has something against me so he makes it very unpleasant for me to stay there
[10:10] <MaNI> I can understand yes
[10:10] <MaNI> some channels can be quite toxic
[10:18] <Kilos> if you dont feel happy or welcome in a channel just leave
[10:19] <Kilos> some peeps can be very snotty
[10:49] <paddatrapper> dlPhreak: I've been here for a while, 3/4 monts or so I think
[10:53] <dlPhreak> paddatrapper: well then I am pleased to meet your acquaintance.
[11:27] <paddatrapper> dlPhreak: and I yours :)
[11:31] <Kilos> hehe
[11:32] <Kilos> surely more than 4 months paddatrapper
[11:32] <Kilos> dlPhreak he is also busy rewriting our bot
[11:32] <Kilos> between studies
[11:33] <Kilos> inetpro ?
[11:33]  * Kilos hears govt places upgrading stuff
[11:44] <dlPhreak> Y u replacing Maaz ??
[11:44] <dlPhreak> :'(
[11:45] <Kilos> nope we will just upgrade him once everything is sorted
[11:45] <dlPhreak> I always thought maaz was female??
[11:46] <Kilos> no his wife is
[11:46] <Kilos> actually he is neither
[11:46] <Kilos> Maaz are you male
[11:46] <Maaz> No. Us Bots are above that human failing
[11:48] <dlPhreak> Maaz, do you know C3PO?
[11:48] <Maaz> dlPhreak: Huh?
[11:48] <dlPhreak> Or R2D2
[11:48] <Kilos> haha
[11:49] <dlPhreak> I think BB8 > R2D2
[11:53] <paddatrapper> Kilos: think I first peaked around the door end of Feb/beginning of March
[11:53] <Kilos> and you got trapped
[11:56] <Kilos> aw paddatrapper i forgot your name
[11:56] <Kilos> and cant scroll back into last nights meeting
[12:34] <anton_may> What version of flash is required for efilling? Efilling says 11.3 and the one for linux is only 11.2
[12:36] <Sicelo> if that's what it says .. then likely that's what it requires :)
[12:36] <Sicelo> however, usually there are ways to 'fake' Flash versions .. have a look at that, and it may help
[12:37] <Sicelo> although i think you might still have other problems, such as XFA on their PDFs
[12:38] <anton_may> nope got adobe reader installed, according to adobe website the latest version of flash is installed, but efilling says 11.3.  I just use that.
[13:34] <anton_may> yea, I got a Win 7 VM on my ubuntu home laptop
[13:37] <jerit> all good thanks ra1v3n :) just had to reboot there because my computer went spastic or summing
[13:37] <jerit> its this ubuntu nonsense :P
[13:44] <ra1v3n> lol
[13:45] <ra1v3n> nothing wrong with Ubuntu
[13:45] <ra1v3n> plenty wrong with Unity
[13:45] <ra1v3n> only uses openbox
[13:49] <Na3iL> o/
[13:54] <theblazehen> Nothing wrong with dwm.suckless.org/
[13:56] <anton_may> ciao all see you tomorrows
[14:21] <magespawn> brb
[14:26] <ra1v3n> theblazehen, thankyou.... I think I might try dwn or awesome next, nothing seems to be happening in terms of development on openbox
[14:27] <theblazehen> ra1v3n: AwesomeWM is... Well, Awesome!
[14:27] <theblazehen> Only one that lets you have a full set of independent workspaces on all monitors
[14:27] <ra1v3n> I just love openbox because it hardly uses resoures and never gets in my way
[14:28] <theblazehen> I like herbestlufwm (I spelt it wrong, google can figure it out...), but it doesn't do multi monitor right. AwesomeWM is literally the only one that does
[14:29] <ra1v3n> then I shall try awesome
[14:29] <ra1v3n> Ive been meaning to learn Lua anyway
[14:31] <theblazehen> It's using 58290 bytes of RAM at the moment
[14:31] <theblazehen> (RSS)
[14:33] <ra1v3n> that like nothing
[14:33] <ra1v3n> When I started using openbox I was surprised at how fast my graphics apps and games responded
[14:34] <theblazehen> Yeah. I used to run XFCE. was using 53 (!) MB RAM at boot
[14:34] <ra1v3n> Now I sit at a machine that has a clunky wm/de and I get super annoyed
[14:34] <ra1v3n> sooo slooow
[14:35] <ra1v3n> the worst is by far windows
[14:35] <theblazehen> Went without computer between 2010 or so to around November 2012, then I got a free PC with 256 MB RAM. Was fun chainloading from a CD so I could boot to a USB
[14:35] <theblazehen> Yeah. Hell, even xp struggles with 256 MB RAM
[14:35] <ra1v3n> but Canonicals Unity is right behind it
[14:35] <theblazehen> Arch with xfce was decent
[14:36] <theblazehen> Sure, I could only open 1 browser tab, and couldn't use heavy websites, but othwrwise it's fine
[14:36] <theblazehen> !FUN! fact, don't leave the cloudflare website open over night. Found it using around 680 MB RAM
[14:36] <theblazehen> A reddit page is around 15 MB
[14:36] <theblazehen> Wikipedia around 5-9, google close to 20-25
[14:37] <ra1v3n> I would much rather reserve a systems resources for important programs rather than choke it with a fancy desktop
[14:37] <ra1v3n> I use links2 if I just need the text
[14:41] <theblazehen> Cool
[14:41] <ra1v3n> otherwise I resort to firefox
[14:44]  * theblazehen had 600+ frefox tabs open once
[14:44] <theblazehen> But then it got slow
[14:45] <ra1v3n> lol
[14:45] <ra1v3n> I limit myself to between 10 and 20 tabs
[14:46] <ra1v3n> anything else is madness
[14:48] <theblazehen> Check out tree style tabs and wikipedia
[14:49] <ra1v3n> hmmm .... suppose that may be useful
[14:50] <jerit> so guys, I have folder /var/www/html/jerit/stuff and I wanna the contents of the "jerit" directory into the "other" directory at /var/www/html/other/ I'm a little fuzzy on how to correctly target the locations correctly
[14:50] <jerit> cp /var/www/html/jerit/ /var/www/html/other ?
[15:08] <Na3iL> theblazehen, +600 tabs open on FF?
[15:08]  * Na3iL is wondering what CPU type you have
[15:27] <Sicelo> finally bit the bullet .. upgrading to debian testing
[15:48] <d`_`b> Hi, do anybody know if this is still a issue http://bugs.quassel-irc.org/issues/286?
[15:49] <d`_`b> Can't seem to turn it on in my *gulp*windows client.
[15:50] <d`_`b> Sicelo: what you looking forward to, in testing?
[15:52] <d`_`b> Also how did you do it? Just a change in your `sources.list`, and `apt-get dist-upgrade`?
[15:53] <Sicelo> yes, still downloading
[15:53] <Sicelo> looking forward to bugs, and more fun :)
[15:54] <Sicelo> sorry not using quassel, so no idea about that
[15:59] <Kilos> hmm... long day
[15:59] <d`_`b> np, pcbsd? I'm trying to get c9 running on it. Easy Peasy on ubuntu, but a quick *herp*durp* on bsd.
[16:04] <paddatrapper> Sicelo: \o/ welcome to the interesting side of life! (I'm on unstable)
[16:05] <jerit__> so guys
[16:05] <Sicelo> paddatrapper: awesome :)
[16:06] <Sicelo> but my main pc will remain on stable - it is my router/AP, MTA, etc. so i don't need it to break
[16:06] <jerit__> I got quassel working
[16:06] <jerit__> turns out quassel =/= quassel client
[16:07] <jerit__> but now how do I connect to my znc
[16:07] <Kilos> well done jerit__
[16:07] <Kilos> look in your nick panel and see who uses quassel
[16:08] <Kilos> or ask the fly, pro or magespawn tomorrow or if he appears tonight
[16:08] <jerit__> ctcp version all 35 people here who aren't me you mean?
[16:08] <Sicelo> don't /version me .. irssi :)
[16:08] <Kilos> dont you see host names
[16:09] <jerit__> I just see nicks
[16:09] <Kilos> in settings should be show host names
[16:12] <Kilos> i dunno quassel but settings or preferences should give an option to show hosts in nick panel
[16:12] <Sicelo> what does he need that for? (sorry if i missed something)
[16:13] <Kilos> so he can see who uses quassel
[16:13] <Kilos> and who is cloaked etc
[16:13] <Kilos> he needs quassel help so normally you would ask a quassel user right?
[16:14] <Sicelo> jerit__: about your 'cp' question .. looks fine your command .. just add -r or -R as otherwise sub-directories will not be descended into
[16:15] <jerit> thanks Sicelo ^^ I'm gonna get screwed with that particular flag a lot in the next few months I expect
[16:15] <Sicelo> the more you use it, you'll remember it ;)
[16:16] <Sicelo> nice thing is that the flag works even with scp .. which is cool
[16:17] <Sicelo> but only -r .. hence i use `cp -r` too .. to avoid getting confused when using scp
[16:21] <jerit> who am I!?
[16:21] <jerit> okay jerit without any ---___ nonsense
[16:26] <jerit> so with any luck I should not have any problems with getting disconnected later
[16:26] <Kilos> are you in now jerit
[16:28] <jerit> I seem to be yeah
[16:28] <Kilos> yay
[16:28] <jerit> connected to my znc and everything although that wasn't as straightforward as expected
[16:30] <Kilos> normally once setup quassel is pretty stable
[16:49] <magespawn> Back
[16:50] <ra1v3n> wb
[16:52] <andrewlsd> Wb
[16:53] <theblazehen> Na3iL: Yes.
[17:09] <jerit> magespawn: Kilos was gonna ask you to help me set up Quassel
[17:09] <jerit> but I'm very heppy wiff myself because I did it all on my own :P
[17:09] <Kilos> haha
[17:09] <Kilos> hi magespawn
[17:19] <magespawn> howdy
[17:22] <magespawn> jerit what did you need help with or are you sorted
[17:22] <magespawn> ?
[17:23] <jerit> well I was opening Quassel Client by mistake
[17:23] <jerit> And then I wanted to connect to my znc as well
[17:24] <magespawn> just the client or the all in one?
[17:25] <jerit> all's I wanted to do was to just chat here
[17:25] <Kilos> haha
[17:25] <jerit> so Quassel Client/Quassel Core wasn't really what I was looking for
[17:26] <Kilos> now you can bounce from a cell or other pc as well
[17:27] <jerit> oh because of znc?
[17:27] <magespawn> the quassel core work more like znc
[17:27] <Kilos> i dont know, magespawn will
[17:33] <Kilos> there jerit the core does the bouncing without znc
[17:34] <theblazehen> You kind of have to wonder if documentation is up to date if you have to go to archive.org to get it
[17:34] <jerit> I'll definitely look at it when I'm less frantic trying to fix my contractor's broken code and do his documentation for him
[17:34] <jerit> lol theblazehen I'd wager it isn't :P
[17:35] <theblazehen> jerit: To be fair, I'm trying to port to hardware from a similar time period
[17:35] <jerit> lol well then maybe it is
[17:38] <theblazehen> Did I mention how fun running `make -j` is on the linux kernel with lots of ram?
[17:38] <theblazehen> Limited ram to 26GB, so had to run make twice, but 30 GB would probably have been enough
[17:39] <theblazehen> Over 2000 processes running
[17:39] <theblazehen> load of over 230
[17:42] <ra1v3n> wb jerit
[17:43] <jerit> this is annoying. Apparently it doesn't matter if I'm using Quassel or mIRC except that Quassel seems to be able to connect again
[17:43] <Kilos> kill mirc then
[18:03] <Sicelo> hmm .. i might regret debian testing fast :P
[18:03] <Sicelo> no longer have hibernate/sleep in kde
[18:03] <theblazehen> 2/230/430/
[18:14] <Sicelo> systemd suspend works, at least :-/
[18:14] <Sicelo> the new KDE is "scary" .. has user icon that looks like it came out of Windows 10
[18:14] <Sicelo> :-/
[18:15] <Kilos> haha
[18:15] <Sicelo> the UI has killed the traditional minimize, max, close buttons ...
[18:16] <Sicelo> with the side effect that i am unable now to move firefor around when it has many tabs open .. nowhere to "hold" the window :D
[18:17] <Kilos> Sicelo have you tried many workspaces
[18:17] <Kilos> im using 9 but dunno if 16.04 can do that
[18:17] <Sicelo> not on this new one .. but Focus-Follows-Mouse works, at least
[18:18] <Sicelo> what's 9? Ubuntu 9?
[18:18] <Kilos> 9 seperate desktops
[18:18] <Kilos> separate
[18:18] <Sicelo> ah
[18:18] <Sicelo> should be doable
[18:19] <Kilos> then you use the desktop switcher to switch
[18:19] <Sicelo> found the settings .. can do up to 10 workspaces
[18:19] <Sicelo> Kilos: that sounds hacky :)
[18:20] <Sicelo> there should be a proper way to move windows around
[18:20] <Kilos> i use 10 on desktop
[18:20] <Kilos> the n you leave ff on its own space
[18:21] <Sicelo> feels like Unity now
[18:21] <Kilos> lol
[18:23] <Sicelo> oh .. not to mention this kde is flat like windows 10 too
[18:23] <Sicelo> Microsoft Loves Linux after all, haha
[18:24] <Kilos> that was after their smear campaign
[18:25] <magespawn> chat later all, home time
[18:25] <Kilos> go safe magespawn
[18:26] <Sicelo> so easiest way to move window around is to right-click them on task bar :-/
[18:31] <Sicelo> ah .. got a theme with 'sane' buttons
[18:35] <Kilos> hi K_K_N kzn north coast right?
[18:35] <K_K_N> Kilos: yep
[18:35] <Kilos> right , i gotcha placed now
[18:36] <K_K_N> yep
[18:37] <K_K_N> hows the weather been, checked on the news a tornado hit Tembisa, I never knew that South Africa even has tornadoes its the first time I heard of it
[18:38] <Kilos> yeah not often
[18:38] <Kilos> rained in tvl even
[18:39] <K_K_N> well we definitely need the rain the water restrictions are not cool at all
[18:40] <K_K_N> if you wake up too late then no bath until it comes back
[18:40] <jerit> apparently something on my pc is stuffing around with my connection
[18:40] <K_K_N> I hope it rained enough above the damns
[18:40] <K_K_N> *dams
[18:40] <Kilos> they still hoping
[18:44] <nsnzero> evening all
[18:44] <Kilos> hi nsnzero
[18:45] <nsnzero> hi Kilos
[18:46] <nsnzero> anybody used gambas ?
[18:46] <jerit> K_K_N: didn't you know? The dams are empty because the sun evaporates all of the water
[18:48] <K_K_N> is it jerit, and here I was thinking that the peeps are using too much water to flush their toilets...
[18:48] <K_K_N> ...hahahahahahaahahah
[18:50] <K_K_N> oh no I think jerit may have been offended with my humour, sorry jerit, I am always joking if you did not know ;)
[18:53] <K_K_N> but on a serious note we need more rain, the last news update I heard before the rain, said that if we do not get rain soon, I think it was haelmere dam they spoke about, it would be empty by next year Feb or so
[18:54] <Kilos> hi shadow
[18:54] <Kilos> welcome to ubuntu-za
[18:55] <Kilos> yes K_K_N times are hard waterwise
[18:55] <Kilos> we lucky with our own borehole
[18:56] <Kilos> jerit ill be in a meeting in africa channel soon, greet new peeps for me please
[18:57] <jerit> K_K_N: very little offends me (basically only insults to my intelligence or character)
[18:57] <jerit> Kilos will do my best - just really busy with testing of stuff
[18:57] <K_K_N> yep I was lucky when we were still living on the farm, we had water tanks, now we living in a residential area and no water tank :(
[18:58] <K_K_N> lol @ jerit nice to know, same here ;)
[18:58] <K_K_N> hehe
[19:00] <jerit> :)
[19:02] <jerit> my connection is making me cry right now :(
[19:02] <jerit> maybe its just the CORS extension I've got on
[19:08] <K_K_N1> (9:09:42 PM) K_K_N: my connection does that to me all the time, I have grown to live with it but it has resulted in me being constantly frustrated
[19:08] <K_K_N1> LOL
[19:08] <K_K_N1> and I get disconnected like almost immediately
[19:27] <inetpro> good night all
[19:27] <inetpro> way too cold to even attempt scrolling
[19:29] <Kilos> hi inetpro
[19:30] <Kilos> see email from ian please
[19:30] <K_K_N> grab a nice mug of Hot Chocolate inetpro it always warms you up
[19:31] <K_K_N> hot coffee will do the same but then you may not be able to sleep for hours
[19:45] <ra1v3n> gnyt all
[19:51] <jerit> that looks like my bouncer
[20:14] <pavlushka> Good Night ZA!
[20:15] <Kilos> night pavlushka
[20:29] <Kilos> paddatrapper you here


 6.2 on todays Jammy ISO @guiverc - just for info..
 Thanks, yeah I noticed... I'll update our checklist when I can (was tempted to last night; but tiredness + manifest still saying 5.19 made me head to bed instead). (re @Leokolb: 6.2 on todays Jammy ISO @guiverc - just for info..)
[22:46] <guiverc> checklist updated for jammy.3, first entry made also (thanks @Leokolb)


[00:04] <zmoylan-pi> i have a new found respect for those who plumb the depths to inflict bland inoffensive humour on captive audience
[00:12] <penguin42> dasher & dancer obviously
[00:16] <daftykins> :>
[00:21]  * penguin42 sighs as he has to put a hacky /etc/fstab line in to deal with a DVD for my dad that a friend recorded that has r-- perms on it's directories
[00:21] <penguin42> I see bugs on this for ~12 years - there's now a dmask= option on mount, but no good way to persuade udev/udisks to pass it
[00:22] <daftykins> :(
[00:22] <daftykins> can you do anything clever after dumping the disc to an image?
[00:23] <penguin42> I didn't need to, that's the clever fstab line I put in; it just is soemthing like /dev/sr0 /mnt/cd  auto  dmask=777,uid=1000,noauto,user
[00:23] <penguin42> (I forget the noauto at first and luckily remembered and went back and fixed it so it booted)
[00:49] <daftykins> oic
[00:49] <daftykins> mmm the benefits of non-auto!
[00:53] <penguin42> right
[00:54] <daftykins> i was really thinking of non-udev at that point rather than 'noauto' :D
[05:58] <mapppps> hi
[05:59] <mapps> ;[]
[10:00] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[15:59] <kocaine_> you suck
[15:59] <kocaine_> now, time for a question
[16:00] <kocaine_> should I be worried, now that I've found, there's a possible hit for a rootkit on my pc
[16:11] <penguin42> you should defintely worry, how much depends on how much you trust the thing that told you there might be one
[16:27] <popey> some rootkit detectors find false positives, that's for sure
[16:30] <diddledan> popey: that's what you think. what you don't know is I'm stalking you
[16:35] <kocaine_> I've recently become aware of the fact, that there's someone, who's trying to (and sometimes succeeding) to hack me and install malware. I'm experincing a lot of problems with all the devices, that's connected to the same network. Do anybody have an idea to why, I might be a perfect target for someone?
[16:36] <diddledan> call the police
[16:36] <kocaine_> Actually, I haven't lost anything, except for 500 DKK in Ether from my smartphone
[16:37] <diddledan> if you believe you've been hacked then wipe the computer and potentially scrap the device entirely
[16:37] <kocaine_> I used Coinbase, stupid, I know
[16:38] <diddledan> alternatively quarantine it for investigation but whatever disconnect it from the net
[16:39] <kocaine_> Yes. That was also my plan. I just need a quick backup of some files
[16:39] <diddledan> if you decide to keep thte device then restore from a backup that is known to be clean or install a new OS from a known clean source
[16:39] <diddledan> and, always, keep your poo patched
[16:48] <m0nkey_> There are only two kinds of people in this world. Those who could Die Hard as a Christmas movie, and those who don't.
[16:48] <m0nkey_> s/could/count
[16:49] <penguin42> m0nkey_: 1 or 2?
[16:49] <diddledan> 1!
[16:50] <m0nkey_> The first one, dummy!
[16:50] <diddledan> and I'm one of those who does
[16:50] <diddledan> alan rickman ftw
[16:51] <diddledan> best bad guy ever
[16:51] <diddledan> although sherif of nottingham is a close second, also by alan
[16:52] <diddledan> wow: https://twitter.com/x0rz/status/810527147328700416
[16:52] <m0nkey_> Robin Hood, Men in Tights
[16:52] <diddledan> lol
[16:52] <diddledan> TBH I don't think I've ever seen the men in tights version. somehow
[16:53] <diddledan> my education seems to be lacking!
[16:53] <diddledan> what about maid marion and her merry men? :-p
[16:54] <m0nkey_> diddledan, added more movies to the Plex you might want to see.
[16:55] <m0nkey_> 1984 and Falling Down
[16:55] <diddledan> \o/
[16:55] <m0nkey_> Also added the two Gremlins movies
[16:55] <diddledan> I finished ripping my entire DVD/Blurry collection
[16:55] <m0nkey_> Robin Hood Men in Tights, will be loaded shortly.
[16:56] <diddledan> (excepting TV shows)
[16:56] <diddledan> though I don't have many teevee boxes
[17:16] <m0nkey_> RHMIT is loaded on the plex. Enjoy.
[17:16] <diddledan> awesome
[20:49] <ikonia> popey: are you active ?
[21:03] <popey> ikonia: wassup?
[21:05] <ikonia> just wondered how you got with 8bitdo in the longer term
[21:05] <ikonia> just ordered mine
[21:05] <popey> good aside from one problem which started this week
[21:05] <popey> for some reason it no longer seems to work
[21:05] <ikonia> :(
[21:05] <popey> I mean, it powers on, but for some reason it doesn't seem to wake up the pi
[21:06]  * popey tries again
[21:06] <popey> thanks for the reminder
[21:06] <popey> might need to re-pair the bluetooth i think
[21:06]  * popey tries
[21:08] <popey> yup, that fixed it
[21:08] <ikonia> please say it works
[21:08] <popey> :)
[21:08] <ikonia> phew
[21:09] <ikonia> I just ordered a ton of them and you made my bottom twitch
[21:09] <popey> just unpaired and re-paired it
[21:09] <popey> haha
[21:09] <ikonia> good, I'm glad they worked out
[21:09]  * popey plays R-Type to "test" it
[21:09] <ikonia> fills me with a bit of condidence
[21:10] <ikonia> thank you for being my test bed
[21:11] <popey> np
[22:48] <ned__> is anybody out there?
[22:48] <daftykins> newp
[22:49] <ned__> aww shit, do you know what time they'll be back?
[22:49] <daftykins> first of never-uary!
[22:49] <daftykins> what's up?
[22:50] <ned__> just testing this works.
[22:50] <ned__> later's
[22:50] <daftykins> ugh idiots
[22:52] <zmoylan-pi> we need to maintain radio silence when the muppets invade... configure your irc client to work via morse code :-)
[22:54]  * daftykins sets irssi to nokia mode
[22:54]  * zmoylan-pi sets nokia to marconi mode...
[23:02]  * zmoylan-pi realises i only have 50c credit left on my phone and makes a note to buy more before crimbo...
[23:03] <zmoylan-pi> €5 should see me good till feb, march
[23:08] <daftykins> :)
[23:08] <daftykins> got to send all those well wish texts!
[23:09] <zmoylan-pi> new year is a very busy texting day for me... if only i could them to accept emails... #cheapsod :-)
[23:11] <zmoylan-pi> that's when the qwerty keyboard on my phone really makes it's presence felt with fewer typos to deal with and faster to type on
[23:16] <daftykins> no vowels going yet?
[23:17] <zmoylan-pi> it's a nokia keyboard... from a finnish company... i suspect it was built with extra vowel support :-P
[23:18] <xnox> lol
[23:19] <daftykins> :D
[23:19] <zmoylan-pi> we've all seen how swedish chef handles hardware... :-P


[16:58] <sdeziel> what's up with `iperf3` fix for 22.04? It seems to be in regular `-security`/`-updates` (https://ubuntu.com/security/notices/USN-6431-2) and also `-esm` (https://ubuntu.com/security/notices/USN-6431-3) ?
[18:12] <sbeattie> sdeziel: that's a very good question.


[00:35] <bjsnider> RAOF, do you get into a situation where the screen will go black for an instant with nouveau?
[00:36] <RAOF> bjsnider: More info required.  That could be VGA polling, but I don't use any VGA outputs.
[00:36] <afiestas> RAOF: well, I want to start by writting the daemon taht will hadle such things
[00:36] <afiestas> ut I guess that I can start elsewhere
[00:37] <afiestas> or, if we agree on the format I can parse it myself like we do in Bluetooth with the pin-database.xml
[00:38] <afiestas> going to sleep now, send me an email with the status/plans/etc to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:38] <afiestas> good night/morning!
[00:42] <bjsnider> RAOF, i am using dvi
[00:43] <RAOF> How frequent are these?  Any triggers?  Do they only occur with 3D?  How long do they last?  etc :)
[00:45] <bjsnider> i think it may be power related, because i have to stop using it for a little while
[00:48] <bjsnider> the nouse pointer has a tendency to stutter unde nouveau
[00:48] <bjsnider> and i lost sound when i upgraded to edgers
[00:49] <RAOF> Lost *sound*?
[00:49] <RAOF> That's plenty weird.
[00:49] <RAOF> I'd guess at kernel fun!
[00:50] <bjsnider> i needed the 3.0 kernel for nouveau though
[00:57] <bjsnider> ok, sound works again
[00:57] <bjsnider> RAOF, how can i have desktop tearing when there's no tearing in mutter?
[00:58] <bjsnider> i should be tear-free. this is an outrage.
[00:59] <RAOF> What compositor are you using?  Compiz?
[01:00] <bjsnider> mutter
[01:00] <RAOF> But there's no tearing in mutter?  I'm confused as to what the problem is.
[01:01] <bjsnider> i am using mutter and getting tearing anyway
[01:03] <RAOF> Ah.  Well, you'd need to turn on vsync if you want that to work :)
[01:04] <RAOF> That still needs an xorg.conf option IIRC.
[01:05] <bjsnider> in nouveau?
[01:05] <bjsnider> why would anyone want to not have vsync?
[01:26] <RAOF> Because it's as-yet lightly tested.
[01:33] <bjsnider> well, it was almost stable. i might switch to it in oneiric
[01:33] <bjsnider> or when wayland is eventually used
[01:34] <bjsnider> guess i'll have no choice then though
[13:22] <bjsnider> ricotz, you're using gnome 3 with nvidia right?
[13:52] <ricotz> bjsnider, yes
[13:52] <bjsnider> have you noticed the new flash plugin taking down the desktop?
[14:18] <ricotz> bjsnider, no, i am using 11.0  64bit version
[14:26] <bjsnider> ricotz, with what browser?
[14:26] <ricotz> firefox 6.0b2
[14:26] <bjsnider> do you have chromium installed?
[14:27] <ricotz> no
[14:27] <bjsnider> well, anyway, can you go to youtube and play a few videos over the course of a couple of minutes please?
[14:28] <ricotz> is the xserver crashing or only gnome-shell?
[14:28] <bjsnider> everything stops except the mouse
[14:28] <bjsnider> keyboard doesn't work
[14:29] <ricotz> so it is locked, perhaps in a loop
[14:29] <ricotz> did you look for running processes while in this state?
[14:29] <bjsnider> yes but other than flash initiating it i can't tell what the problem is
[14:30] <bjsnider> could be an nvidia problem, could be gnome-shell, who knows
[14:30] <ricotz> so you cant switch to tty1?
[14:30] <bjsnider> it's impossible to do anything except move the mouse
[14:30] <ricotz> ssh?
[14:30] <bjsnider> tty1 would require the keyboard to work
[14:31] <bjsnider> don't have another system to use ssh
[14:31] <ricotz> mhh, ok
[14:31] <ricotz> currently i dont want to trigger this here
[14:31] <ricotz> if it would happen too
[14:31] <bjsnider> the 64-bit plugin is using vdpau now, so i assume it's somehow interfering with mutter or something
[14:32] <ricotz> so you are using flashplayer11_b1_install_lin_64_071311?
[14:33] <bjsnider> yep
[14:33] <ricotz> ok
[14:33] <ricotz> and 280.11?
[14:33] <ricotz> with mutter git and gnome-shell git?
[14:34] <bjsnider> no, 275.19
[14:34] <bjsnider> with the packages from the gnome 3 ppa
[14:34] <ricotz> ok, so on natty?
[14:34] <bjsnider> yes
[14:34] <ricotz> i am running oneiric with edgers ppa
[14:35] <ricotz> bjsnider, there are a lot of fixes since 3.0.2
[14:35] <ricotz> perhaps you could try 3.1.3+?
[14:35] <bjsnider> i had a catastrophic sound issue with edgers so i had to purge it
[14:36] <bjsnider> how, build the packages myself?
[14:36] <ricotz> sound? are you using hdmi audio?
[14:36] <bjsnider> no
[14:36] <ricotz> ppa:ricotz/testing
[14:36] <bjsnider> the 3.0 kernel was responsible
[14:36] <ricotz> ok
[14:37] <ricotz> try to only update mutter and gnome-shell
[14:37] <ricotz> telepathy and json
[14:38] <bjsnider> too risky for my taste. i need this thing to work most of the time
[14:38] <ricotz> bjsnider, does this happen before the gnome3 updates update on the weekend?
[14:38] <ricotz> ok, np
[14:39] <bjsnider> happened before that update
[14:39] <ricotz> ok, good ;)
[14:40] <ricotz> mhh, so i cant reproduce it here with your configuration, i will test it anyway later
[14:41] <bjsnider> if it's a flash problem it will happen anyway
[14:41] <bjsnider> but i can't find a lot of complaints about it in the cloud, so i'm assuming it's somehow unique to my system (lucky me)
[14:44] <ricotz> bjsnider, btw, the 3.0 kernel is not mandatory using edgers ppa
[14:44] <bjsnider> i was considering intentionally breaking vdpau by temporarily moving the vdpau driver shared lib somewhere else and then testing it
[14:44] <bjsnider> ricotz, ah, but it is if you really want to test nouveau
[14:45] <ricotz> bjsnider, right, but 3.0 is still far behind the nouveau kernel tree ;)
[14:45] <bjsnider> well, that's the newest kernel i had available to me
[14:46] <ricotz> ok
[17:14] <ricotz> bjsnider, i cant confirm any problems here with flash
[19:00] <highvoltage> hi, anyone know how I can get the amd catalyst control center on natty? old documentation says I need the amdcccle package but that doesn't install any binaries
[20:53] <bjsnider> ricotz, using firefox only?
[21:11] <ricotz> bjsnider, yes


[02:54] <teledyn> is there a css file or some other way to change the scrollbar width for the Application Launcher?
[03:09] <teledyn> is there a pp archive for plasma 5.8?
[03:16] <valorie> teledyn: until the Qt version in Ubuntu is updated, we're unable to provide Plasma 5.8
[03:17] <valorie> we will do it as soon as possible
[05:44] <Unit193> j5jsearch kernel
[10:56] <fairc> is it possible to install plasma 5.8 in 16.10 release?
[10:57] <fairc> if so, how?
[10:58] <denza242> fairc: there is the option of compiling it all yourself
[10:58] <denza242> I think there are packages though
[11:04] <fairc> no interest in compiling. looking for an easy (good maintained) option
[11:08] <acheronuk> fairc: once we have it in the 17.04 Zesty development version we can likely backport to 16.10. Zesty has only just started for development though.
[12:03] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[12:23] <andywww> hi, i'm having a problem with a large icon on emacs
[12:23] <andywww> https://www.dropbox.com/s/d8cfvzdjh4mn6ei/Screenshot_20161023_131459.png?dl=0
[12:23] <andywww> the open icon is far too big
[12:24] <andywww> is this something i can fix in a kde setting?
[12:55] <ForgeAus> how to downgrade packages?
[12:58] <BluesKaj> ForgeAus, why?
[12:59] <ForgeAus> sudo breaks
[13:00] <BluesKaj> that doesn't tell us much
[13:01] <ForgeAus> sudo: no tty present and no askpass program specified
[13:01] <ForgeAus> in xenial
[13:02] <ForgeAus> also apparently procps and strace...  (I think)
[13:03] <ForgeAus> took me since last time we chatted to go through upgrading the distro all the way to xenial (in many painful steps) ...
[13:03] <ForgeAus> it worked in wily
[13:04] <ForgeAus> don't know about procps and strace in wily though
[13:08] <BluesKaj> are you trying to compile ?
[13:09] <ForgeAus> no just upgrade and use I can't apt-get from console without going through kdesudo to load some commandline tool like krusader
[13:14] <BluesKaj> are you the only user?
[13:16] <BluesKaj> and did you edit the sudoers file in any way?
[13:29] <ForgeAus> yes I'm the only user and no I didn't edit the sudoers file in fact I can't get into it afaik
[13:29] <ForgeAus> I did try having a look, but it denied me access besides I probably wouldn't know what to do with it anyway
[13:32] <ForgeAus> actually I can view it now, must have been back when I didn't know at the time how to get to root (kdesudo works)
[13:32] <ForgeAus> maybe thats been replaced wtih the upgrade?
[13:32] <ForgeAus> although the error seems more about the tty side of things than that, it didn't even ask me for a password let alone attempt to run the command
[13:33] <ForgeAus> by the "that" I meant my sudoers file in /etc ... I can view it now)
[13:33] <BluesKaj> what does sudo su do ?
[13:33] <ForgeAus> no idea, I'll try it
[13:33] <ForgeAus> same error
[13:34] <ForgeAus> sudo: no tty present and no askpass program specified
[13:34] <ForgeAus> I assume sudo anything will do that
[13:35] <BluesKaj> yup
[13:39] <BluesKaj> ForgeAus,  http://stackoverflow.com/questions/21659637/how-to-fix-sudo-no-tty-present-and-no-askpass-program-specified-error
[13:43] <ForgeAus> thx
[13:44] <ForgeAus> I'll check it out
[13:46] <BluesKaj> np, hope it helps
[13:46] <paranoidabhi> is there any way to downgrade kubuntu from 16.10 to 16.04?
[13:48] <ForgeAus> doesn't seem to be helping
[13:53] <antifa> hey
[14:12] <ForgeAus> hmm I tried putting an askpass variable in env (by export SUDO_ASKPASS=/usr/bin/X11/ssh-askpass )
[14:13] <ForgeAus> now it is trying to set up kwallet for the password?... lol
[14:21] <ForgeAus> the -S switch works :)
[14:25] <ForgeAus> hmm that fixes sudo... but not ps -a
[14:26] <ForgeAus> even with /proc mounted it doesn't seem to run
[15:26] <teledyn> ForgeAus: does the groups command show you in the sudo group?
[15:36] <ForgeAus> groups coomand?
[15:37] <ForgeAus> when I type in groups it returns forgeaus adm cdrom sudo dip plugdev libvirtd
[15:50] <ForgeAus> anyway for now gotta go, catch you later.. have fun!
[16:15] <orestis> hello guys, I installed kubuntu-full in my ubuntu-gnome. I have the following problem: Discover does not show me the list with my repositories. What is the repository manager in Kubuntu?
[16:42] <Sircle> can anyone refer multiseatx official guide for kubuntu 16.04.1 LTS?
[17:43] <Ashwin153> Hello
[17:46] <Ashwin153> I'm facing a problem related to graphics on my Kubuntu 15.04 OS. Can someone help me out
[20:50] <Amplituhedron> Hello folks,  I'm running Kubuntu 16.04 and have a working internet connection through a 3g usb modem, How do I share my internet connection to my dlink-DIR 803 router through my ethernet port ?? (In effect how do I broadcast my laptop 3g connection using my router ?)
[20:58] <Crell> Hello, peoples. My Kubuntu 16.04 laptop (Thinkpad X220) seems to have suddenly stopped connecting to Wifi.  Ethernet is fine, Bluetooth is fine, just Wifi is out.  It simply isn't seeing networks that I've confirmed are present.  I did not upgrade anything before it started a few days ago.  iwconfig still reports it's there.  (wlp3s0 is the identifier.)  Any idea what I should be trying to debug this?
[20:59] <Crell> My Googling so far has mostly suggested restarting network-manager, which I have tried unsuccessfully.
[21:01] <Amplituhedron> If there is a hardware switch (probably a fn key) is it on?, or did you try in cli (i.e ping http://google.com or something ..) !
[21:03] <Amplituhedron> Crell:
[21:05] <Crell> Amplituhedron: There is a hardware switch, which is on. I confirmed that by connecting to bluetooth.  I am able to share internet from my phone via bluetooth.
[21:05] <Crell> ping on the CLI has an immediate DNS failure, because it has no network to try and lookup DNS from.
[21:07] <Amplituhedron> If you have access to the router settings (or a different network) did you try a different channel (5Ghz if supported or 2.4Ghz just not auto)
[21:08] <Amplituhedron> and does it work under windows? if you're dualbooting
[21:08] <Crell> Same behavior on 5 different networks in 3 different timezones.  (I've been traveling.) No dualboot.
[21:09] <Crell> It used to connect to 2 of those networks (the others were hotels I was only in for a day.)
[21:13] <Crell> google keeps leading me back to an issue with the network-manager needing to be restarted, which is a bug upstream in Gnome. But restarting network-manager fixes nothing in my case.
[21:14] <Amplituhedron> I'm kinda lost, but given that google gave a lot of hits regarding the X220, if possible can you try a live boot?
[21:14] <Amplituhedron> just to be sure  it's not hardware.
[21:15] <Crell> I didn't specify x220 in my googling.  I... may have a live boot around somewhere? I think just the 16.04 install usb key I made.
[21:15] <Crell> I could try making a 16.10 key and see how it behaves.  I should update eventually anyway.
[21:15] <Crell> Unless you recommend a different live boot for diagnostic purposes.
[21:16] <Amplituhedron> Preferably one that worked with the wireless card before (i.e 16.04).
[21:17] <Crell> OK, that's the one I should still have.  Stand by.
[21:24] <Crell> Amplituhedron: Confirmed, 16.04 live boot USB key can connect to the wifi network.  So it's definitely a software issue of some variety.
[21:25] <Crell> (Too bad, if it was hardware I could just expense a new laptop from my company... <g>)
[21:29] <Amplituhedron> lol, you could always break it yourself >: , but now I'm suspecting either Network-manager (the usual culprit) or given that you're sure you didn't update a kernel or nm probably config ( can you create a hotspot using nm or at lest see available networks ?)
[21:30] <Amplituhedron> Crell: oh and if you have power management of any kind suspend it and try !
[21:31] <Crell> hm. I'm not actually sure how to turn the laptop in to a hotspot.
[21:33] <Crell> Let me reboot to the hdd and see. Power settings shouldnt have changed recently...]
[21:33] <Amplituhedron> In the tray Icon right click & Configure Network Connections, after the window comes up click Add >Wifi (shared)
[21:35] <Amplituhedron> I'm not sure how power managment works , but it always messes with my things in unexpected ways (Amarok problems, networking ..) and everytime I turn it off I find it on again (no idea how?)
[21:35] <Crell> *shruggie emoticon*
[21:35] <Crell> Power management has been rock solid for me on this laptop for years, no issues.
[21:36] <Amplituhedron> Probably my old Hp is ...
[21:37] <Crell> Although for some odd reason, startup recently started taking nearly a minute instead of the 10-15 seconds it used to be.  No idea why.
[21:39] <Amplituhedron> Ohh I'm quite sure it has something to do with udev and/or systemd, it turned to >3mins for me, and after checking the boot graph it was systemd (and I had no desire to mess with it so I just waited for an update ... after a few weeks I found that changing my fstab entries fixed 1.5 mins of it!!)
[21:40] <Amplituhedron> That probably fixed the udev part as it was struggling with my NTFS partition (dunno why?)
[21:41] <Crell> Weird.
[21:41] <Crell> If only Chrome OS let you install arbitrary user-space apps, I'd seriously consider just swiching to that full time. But no, I need a real IDE and Git.
[21:43] <Crell> Amplituhedron: OK, I created a new Wifi (shared) entry in the connection editor. It's not showing up in the Networks dialog, though. (I don't know that it's supposed to.)
[21:46] <Amplituhedron> Honestly I had not even tried Chrome OS (don't intend to :) ) , well kind of minor but there is a checkbox on top of the network manager ui when clicking the tray button, there should one for wireless aired and airplane mode, is it checked (sorry I'm lost !)
[21:46] <Amplituhedron> Crell:
[21:46] <Crell> Tried that toggle already. It's unchecked.  Checking it and unchecking does nothing.
[21:48] <Crell> Er.  Wait a sec...
[21:48] <Amplituhedron> That's strange !! since if it's there and "checkable" ! it should mean that wireless is working !!
[21:49] <Crell> This is odd.
[21:49] <Crell> If it's unchecked now, no wifi shows up.
[21:50] <Crell> If it's checked, ONLY the access point connection I just created appears, but I can "connect" it.
[21:50] <Crell> But the other local network (the one I'm using on this chromebook to talk to you) still doesn't show either way.
[21:50] <Crell> I... what?
[21:51] <Crell> And I CAN see that laptop network from my phone.
[21:51] <Crell> So... it can definitely find the hardware. The hardware is working. The drivers are correct.
[21:51] <Crell> What gives, Kubuntu?
[21:52] <Amplituhedron> lol, now I'm really lost XD
[21:52] <Crell> Me too.
[21:52] <Amplituhedron> but it's no almost certainly network-manager
[21:52] <Amplituhedron> *now
[21:52] <Crell> I... guess I could throw a hail mary and update to 16.10 over wired and see what happens? :-)
[21:53] <Crell> Holy...
[21:53] <Crell> I just restarted network manager again on a lark, and now it sees 10 networks.
[21:53] <Amplituhedron> Ok, but do a google for problems of 16.10 with X220 and generally before you make the jump.. hhhhhhhahah network manager for the win!!!
[21:54] <Crell> I hate that thing. Every time I have issues with a Linux box in the last 2 years, it's nm.
[21:55] <Amplituhedron> Yep it gave me nightmares especially with my 3g usb Dongles ... well I'm glad this didn't require you recompiling NM :0
[21:55] <Crell> Amen.
[21:55] <Crell> Thanks for the hand-holding at least.
[21:55] <Amplituhedron> You're most welcome!
[21:56] <Amplituhedron> Ok now I have to find someone to help me with my own networking problem!
[21:57] <Amplituhedron> I'm running Kubuntu 16.04 and have a working internet connection through a 3g usb modem, How do I share my internet connection to my dlink-DIR 803 router through my ethernet port ?? (In effect how do I broadcast my laptop 3g connection using my router ?)
[22:10] <valorie> Amplituhedron: wouldn't you have to login to your router to do that?
[22:13] <Amplituhedron> yep I logged in, and set it to AP mode, & tried setting the wired connection to share to other computers in NM, tried disabling DHCP in the router!!
[22:13] <Amplituhedron> I have no conceptual picture of how it's supposed to work (no experience with networking!!)
[22:14] <valorie> I suggest #ubuntu for that, or maybe they can suggest a more suitable chan
[22:14] <valorie> it's not really a Kubuntu issue, and we're a smaller chan
[22:16] <Amplituhedron> hh, ok I'll try, the thing is their NM is a bit different than Kubuntu's, but thanks anyway !
[22:18] <valorie> I see your point
[23:19] <tsimonq2> Should the upgrade from Kubuntu Trusty to Xenial work fine?
[23:19] <tsimonq2> I'm doing it in a VM now.
[23:29] <valorie> tsimonq2: isn't that two upgrades?
[23:30] <valorie> I"m bad with old name:number mapping
[23:31] <tsimonq2> valorie: That's LTS to LTS.
[23:31] <tsimonq2> But it's KDE 4 to KDE 5.
[23:32] <valorie> oh
[23:32] <valorie> I think I did that one, back in the day
[23:32] <valorie> but then did a fresh install
[23:32] <valorie> or the computer itself died or so
[23:47] <mparillo> When I did the Plasma 4 to 5 upgrade, I remember having to sudo power off (the kicker leave options did not work) and I remember the shortcuts  in kicker favorites also did not work.


[02:22] <flo> i need help setting up the video-device for isight-cam on macbook - can anyone help, please!?
[03:18] <cjae_> one question is it work trying to find parts to build own laptop cause I bought one once for $3000.CAD about two years ago and it was brutal Toshiba Qosmio
[03:19] <cjae_> gpu failed, mobo failed hdd failed
[03:20] <cjae_> all replaced but didn't wait to see how long lasted
[03:21] <cjae_> read in maximum pc you can build your own is this really possible or only if you have all the resources that a computer mag has
[03:21] <cjae_> that is my ONLY question
[11:37] <me> hello need help installing ubuntu
[01:35] <kensho> hello
[06:17] <AndyCR> hi
[06:17] <AndyCR> anyone having disconnects with ipw3945