[00:01] <directhex> the patch introduced a MAYBE definition, sets {v5,v7,thumb}_supported to MAYBE, then uses ifs to turn those true or false
[00:01] <directhex> except it doesn't ever set v7_supported to false on non-v7
[00:02] <ogra_cmpc> ah
[00:02] <directhex> so it stays at MAYBE, and later in the code,                 if (v7_supported) {
[00:02] <directhex> explode_horribly();
[00:02] <directhex> }
[00:03] <directhex> 14 hours of building to add one printf: totally paid off ^_^
[00:03] <directhex> MCS     [basic] System.Xml.dll
[00:03] <directhex> features: v5: 1, v7: 2, thumb: 1
[00:03] <directhex> Illegal instruction
[00:03] <ogra_cmpc> heh, ther wonderful world of arm :)
[00:04] <ogra_cmpc> -r
[00:04] <directhex> this is why i wish i could make qemu work - i reckon my core i7 would be a pretty fast ARM
[00:04] <ogra_cmpc> nah
[00:04] <ogra_cmpc> qemu is always slow
[00:05] <ogra_cmpc> better invest $120 and buy a beagleboard
[00:05] <ogra_cmpc> or wait for the pandaboard
[00:05] <directhex> i'm not investing my money in ARM - my concern is for debbuntu
[00:05] <ogra_cmpc> (dual core 1GHz, 512M similar price)
[00:07] <directhex> ogra_cmpc, i'm trying to work out the most minimal way to fix this. can you sanity-check my idea?
[00:07] <directhex> let me pull up a URL to the file in question
[00:09] <directhex> http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-mono/packages/mono.git;a=blob;f=mono/mini/mini-arm.c;h=84caef95c1af83bc70cebab8826485a67b89d963;hb=HEAD
[00:09] <directhex> wait, no
[00:09] <directhex> wrong branch
[00:10] <directhex> http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-mono/packages/mono.git;a=blob;f=mono/mini/mini-arm.c;h=9593f9951510d0dacfc8f5b3a65307476b01a197;hb=refs/heads/master-experimental
[00:10] <directhex> okay, now around the line 545 mark, you see the iffing to assign values to {v5,v7,thumb}_supported
[00:11] <directhex> the defaults here are MAYBE (i.e. all features assumed to be on)
[00:12] <directhex> the assumption is to help qemu, i.e. "if you get no values, just roll with everything on, it'll probably be fine". which given our dicussion earlier, is probably the case
[00:13] <directhex> so why not just insert "v7_supported = FALSE;" between lines 553 and 554?
[00:14] <ogra_cmpc> sounds ok to me
[00:14] <ogra_cmpc> test it :)
[00:15] <directhex> yeah, just ran make. see you tomorrow!
[00:15] <GrueMaster> mpoirier: On bug 591941, if I remove the SD card, then reinsert it and restart ./init, it seems to work ok.  Might want to explore that a little when you work on that bug.
[00:16] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 591941 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 1 other project) "SDHC card not recognized (affects: 2) (dups: 1) (heat: 171)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/591941
[00:16] <directhex> my gut says "apologise to lool", let me check something in the git logs...
[00:17] <directhex> yup, apologies to lool - seems it was meebey that broke it when porting lool's patch from mono 2.4 to mono 2.6. i shall go and poke him
[00:23]  * mattman_ is away:
[00:28] <ogra> so by the looks of it the resizing routine runs now
[00:30] <directhex> MCS     [basic] System.Xml.dll
[00:30] <directhex> features: v5: 1, v7: 0, thumb: 1
[00:30] <directhex> System.Xml/XmlTextReader.cs(1811,40): warning CS0219: The variable `dummyValue' is assigned but its value is never used
[00:30] <directhex> looks healthy!
[00:30] <ogra> great
[00:30] <directhex> i'll try to push a 2.6.3-3 to experimental tomorrow
[00:30] <directhex> then merges can happen based on that
[00:31] <ogra> sweet
[00:47] <directhex> hang on, main's frozen... so no hurry!
[01:31] <DanaG> I'm eyeing that "port glxgears to ES" bit... wanna' try it on libgles1-mesa-drivers-kms (or whatever it is) on my netbook.
[05:03]  * mozzwald is away: sleeping
[08:09] <hrw> morning
[08:10] <berco> morning
[08:12] <kai> morning
[08:13] <lag> morning
[08:13] <lag> :)
[08:14] <lag> Who's responsibility is this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/457710/
[08:14] <hrw> (30: Read-only file system)?
[08:15] <lag> Surely it shouldn't segfault regardless of filesystem
[08:18] <lag> I just attempted to mount as rw: http://paste.ubuntu.com/457711/
[08:18] <lag> Fail!
[08:28] <kai> can anyone recommend an embedded board with GbE and SATA that's not constantly overheating like the GuruPlug?
[08:29] <hrw> kai: get guruplug out of case, attach some heatsink?
[08:29] <hrw> my friend made industrial device from sheevaplug
[08:44] <kai> yeah, got a sheevaplug, thoug I still have one of the old usb only ones
[08:45] <kai> network throughput is a bit below GbE, though
[08:46] <hrw> but faster then any of my arm devices
[08:55] <kai> hrw: sure, I was just wondering if it made sense to extend the zoo :)
[08:56] <hrw> change casing of guruplug
[09:10] <kai> yeah, I guess :)
[09:12] <kai> or I'll just build my demo with the guruplug and the beagles
[09:17] <lag> Why, why, why? http://paste.ubuntu.com/457730
[09:21] <ogra> lag, sudo ??
[09:22] <lag> u-boot doesn't have sudo
[09:23] <ogra> no, i was commenting the first paste :)
[09:23] <ogra> is the SD locked ?
[09:23] <lag> No, it's mounted ro
[09:23] <ogra> yes, thats how it should be
[09:23] <lag> If I try and mount it rw it does the second paste link
[09:24] <ogra> right, looks like a locked card to me
[09:25] <ogra> ro on the cmdline is normal, mountall will remount it rw after the fsck
[09:25] <lag> You can't lock a MicroSD card without an SD adapter
[09:25] <lag> FYI: sudo does the exact same thing
[09:26] <ogra> how do you put a micro SD into the panda without adapter ?
[09:27] <hrw> good to know that pb has normal sd
[09:27] <michaelh1> Morning.  Has anyone tried 10.04 on a OMAP3 based Overo board?
[09:28] <michaelh1> The kernel boots, but then I see 'init: ureadahead main process (49) terminated with status 5'
[09:28] <michaelh1> and 'init: procps main process (77) terminated with status 255'
[09:28] <lag> ogra: No, that problem is on Beagle
[09:28] <ogra> michaelh1, thats both fine ... it should still boot
[09:28] <lag> The fatload problem is on Panda :)
[09:28] <michaelh1> and then nothing.  I have ttyS2 set up as a console under /etc/init/ttyS2 (but no screen at the moment)
[09:28] <ogra> lag, your u-boot prompt says panda
[09:28] <lag> ogra: Different issue
[09:29] <ogra> k
[09:31] <ogra> lag, so you said XM works for you ?
[09:31] <lool> michaelh1: That seems like a ureadahead exit code for when it deson't have data on the first boot
[09:32] <ogra> it definately doesnt for me
[09:32] <lool> michaelh1: Which I would htink is expected, and ignored by upstart
[09:32] <lag> Yes
[09:32] <lool> michaelh1: Did you use /etc/init/ttyS2?
[09:32] <ogra> lag, no screen output at all, so our image doesnt boot
[09:32] <lool> michaelh1: Cause it should be named .conf
[09:32] <lool> /etc/init/ttyS2 wont be picked up, /etc/init/ttyS2.conf should be
[09:32] <lag> ogra: Have you tried the latest kernel?
[09:32] <ogra> lag, its the alpha2 image i'm testing
[09:32] <michaelh1> lool: having a look now.  I ended up with whatever rootstock --serial=ttyS2 generates
[09:32] <lag> ogra: Wait one, I'll dig mine out for you
[09:33] <ogra> lag, i cant change the kernel on the image
[09:33] <ogra> lag, you said the archive kernel works
[09:33] <lool> michaelh1: Try pressing enter after boot too
[09:33] <lag> The one in the git tree?
[09:33] <lool> michaelh1: One thing which might happen is that you have no network setup
[09:33] <lool> michaelh1: That's a common issue with rootstock
[09:34] <michaelh1> Hmm.  I supplied --serial=ttyS2 but there's no /etc/init/ttyS2.conf in the image...
[09:34] <lool> michaelh1: You either need to install ifupdown and create a /etc/network/interfaces with at least lo, or you need ot install network-manager
[09:34] <michaelh1> Hmm.  Might try VERBOSE in /etc/default/rcS as well...
[09:34] <ogra> lool, ??
[09:34] <lool> michaelh1: How about you create your rootfs by hand?  That might be quicker than looking at rootstock issues
[09:34] <ogra>  /etc/network/interfaces is created by rootstock with lo
[09:35] <lool> michaelh1: apt-get install qemu-kvm-extras-static, qemu-debootstrap --arch=armel maverick /mnt/your-microsd-card
[09:35] <lool> with a lucid host
[09:35] <lag> ogra: Point me to the image you're trying to use
[09:35] <ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-netbook/ports/daily-preinstalled/current/
[09:35] <lool> michaelh1: You then need to create etc/fstab, etc/hosts, etc/hostname, etc/init/ttyS2.conf and etc/network/interfaces
[09:36] <michaelh1> Ta.  I've created ttyS2.conf on the rootstock image.  interfaces does contain lo.  Booting...
[09:36] <ogra> lag, works on the C4 but since we dont use a swapfile yet, the desktop runs out of ram ... sincer you said XM works i was hoping we can use the image at least on a 512M board
[09:36] <ogra> lool, rootstock does all that
[09:37] <ogra> michaelh1, did rootstock finish without error ?
[09:37] <michaelh1> Kind of.  I'm using apt-cacher-ng instead of the package cache and rootstock fails due to http_proxy containing a hostname
[09:38] <michaelh1> This causes apt-get inside qemu to fail on the update.  Should still be good though.
[09:38] <ogra> no
[09:38] <ogra> you will only have a half built system
[09:38] <ogra> which rootstock version are you using ... recent versions have a fix for http_proxy
[09:39] <michaelh1> Ah!  I have a login prompt!
[09:39] <michaelh1> And sudo...
[09:40] <michaelh1> And no network (due to having no network hardware :)
[09:40] <michaelh1> ogra: The version that came with 10.04 (<IP_ADDRESS>)
[09:40] <ogra> hmm, that should make use of a globally set http_proxy
[09:41] <ogra> how do you set it ? is it in your env  ?
[09:42] <lool> ogra: I usually dont complain about it, but you probably remember I replied a bunch of time here to people who were facing issues with rootstock generated images; it seemed to happen less these days.  Another issue for a long while (perhaps still true?) was the version skew between the rootstock trunk bzr branch and the one in Ubuntu; overall I found it painful to deal with various rootstock issues, while I know exactly where manually created ...
[09:42] <lool> ... rootfs might break; so no offense, but it's easier for me to help people when they are not using rootstock
[09:42] <michaelh1> ogra: the problem is the DNS resolution.  Here goes:
[09:42] <lool> michaelh1: instead of http_proxy=hostname.domain, you should use http_proxy=http://hostname.domain
[09:42] <lool> that's more widely accepted
[09:42] <ogra> right
[09:43] <michaelh1> Yip.  I use export http_proxy=http://crucis.local:3142/
[09:43] <lool> that looks ok
[09:43] <ogra> rootsotck uses both, /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/proxy or http_proxy
[09:43] <michaelh1> I think the problem is that crucis.local resolves via mDNS instead of the gateway's DNS proxy
[09:43] <lool> michaelh1: You need libmdns in your chroot then
[09:43] <ogra> lool, the trunk version is exactly the same as in the archive, i dont know what you are talking about
[09:44] <ogra> lool, and if there are users for which a rootstock rootfs doesnt work, the first thing is to check the log if the build finished
[09:44] <lool> ogra: for a long while, months ago I agree, there were fixes in bzr and a very different code base than in the archive; that might not be true anymore
[09:44] <michaelh1> If I set export http_proxy=http://<IP_ADDRESS>:3142/ then both sides work fine, but my IP changes depending on wireless vs wired
[09:44] <ogra> instead of fiddling in piecemeal with the broken FS
[09:45] <lool> michaelh1: Can't you use <IP_ADDRESS> then?
[09:45] <ogra> michaelh1, can you file a bug, i'll research that
[09:45] <lool> Oh no it's a real board attached to your laptop, not a chroot
[09:45] <michaelh1> lool: no, <IP_ADDRESS> is the qemu host when running
[09:45] <lool> or qemu running in your laptop, right
[09:45] <michaelh1> Hmm.
[09:45] <lool> michaelh1: You could have a separate IP + subnet just for this, but it's a bit heavy
[09:46] <ogra> rootstock should just create an /etc/hosts entry for the host machine during build (and remove the entry at the end)
[09:46] <michaelh1> I think running dnsmasq will also solve this: gives a real DNS server that both the host and qemu can use
[09:46] <lool> I mean, you could add another IP to your laptop e.g. <IP_ADDRESS> and make sure that you have legs for that in any of the network where you need the proxy, but it's heavy
[09:46] <lool> michaelh1: Yup, that's what libvirt does, but you still need an IP to talk to it
[09:47] <ogra> not with a hosts entry
[09:47] <michaelh1> orga: It seems that /etc/init/ttyS2.conf wasn't created
[09:47] <ogra> michaelh1, pleaswe file a bug, i'll add that
[09:47] <michaelh1> orga: my command line was rootstock --keepimage -l ubuntu -p ubuntu -f ubuntu  --seed=lxde --serial=ttyS2
[09:48] <ogra> michaelh1, right /etc/init/ttyS2.conf is created if the build finishes properly, if that failed you should have said that first
[09:48] <ogra> (and as i said above lool should have asked you about that first)
[09:48] <ogra> its a fallout of the missing name resolution, if you file a bug for that i'll fix it
[09:48] <michaelh1> OK.  I'll try again using the IP address and see what happens
[09:49] <michaelh1> My impression from the log was that the build succeeded.  apt-get failed, but it seemed to move on quite happily
[09:49] <michaelh1> (See http://paste.ubuntu.com/457737/ for the log)
[09:50] <ogra> if apt-get failed and you didng get a success message at the end, the build didnt finish
[09:50] <ogra> i need /home/michaelh/ubu/rootfs/rootstock-201007012009.log
[09:53] <michaelh1> Hmm.  Firefox doesn't like pasting 11000 lines into paste.ubuntu.com :)
[09:53] <ogra> file a bug and attach the log ;)
[09:53] <michaelh1> ogra: The log is here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/457739/
[09:53] <michaelh1> I will do.  I'm up and going so it's all good.
[09:54] <michaelh1> (I quite like rootstock by the way.  Nice and simple and readable)
[09:55] <ogra> thanks :)
[09:55] <ogra> lets see if we can make it better for you :)
[09:57] <michaelh1> (A --version option would be nice)
[09:57] <ogra> wishlist bug please :)
[09:57] <michaelh1> Ack
[10:00] <ogra> hmm, looking at the code for --serial i think the issue is the equal sign
[10:00] <ogra> "--serial ttyS2" would have worked
[10:00] <ogra> another bug :/
[10:00] <michaelh1> Yeah, I saw that setup_serial is run before qemu starts but I thought I'd hammer you with one issue at a time :)
[10:00] <michaelh1> Will file.
[10:01] <ogra> i didnt have much tile for rootstock in the maverick cycle yet since we're building preinstalled SD images for omap now implementing that ate all my time
[10:02] <ogra> should get better now that we have these images and they only needs fixes
[10:02] <michaelh1> No worries.  My recent history is with Openembedded and the speed (but not size) of Ubuntu+rootstock is refreshing
[10:03] <hrw> michaelh1: thats due to using built packages instead of building them
[10:04] <ogra> well, the speed of the binaries will not be as fast since OE optimizes the built binaries for your HW
[10:04] <michaelh1> Absolutely.  I understand that OE can use binary packages but never got into it.
[10:04] <michaelh1> Ah, but most things are going to Cortex-A8 these days + runtime specialisation so there's not much difference
[10:05] <hrw> michaelh1: I did builds of images from binary packages in old openzaurus times
[10:05] <hrw> michaelh1: but code was a bit tricky so it took long before cleaner version appeared again in OE
[10:05] <ogra> lag, so wrt XM kernel i guess nobody tested the display (again), the kernel seems to boot fine but wihtout screen output its useless for us
[10:06] <michaelh1> lp #600539
[10:06] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 600539 in project-rootstock "Running apt-get against a proxy fails during the qemu stage (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600539
[10:06] <michaelh1> (ubot2 is pretty nice)
[10:06] <lag> ogra: Mine boots with display
[10:06] <ogra> lag, with the archive kernel ?
[10:07] <lag> I've just downloaded that
[10:07] <ogra> thats weird
[10:07] <lag> How do I use this binary blob?
[10:07] <lag> No, I haven't tested it
[10:07] <lag> Just downloaded it
[10:07] <ogra> dpkg -x the .deb
[10:07] <lag> Ah
[10:07] <ogra> mkdir tmp; dpkg -x *.deb tmp
[10:07] <lag> 2 secs, pulling up console
[10:07] <ogra> then it unpacks it in tmp
[10:07] <lag> k
[10:08] <lag> I have used Linux before ;)
[10:08] <ogra> you need to run mkimage, it only has the vmlinuz
[10:08] <michaelh1> ogra: sorry, but how can I mark a bug as wishlist?
[10:08] <ogra> michaelh1, in the importance field
[10:09] <michaelh1> I'm looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/project-rootstock/+bug/600540 and can't see how to change the importance
[10:09] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 600540 in project-rootstock "Add a --version option (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[10:09] <michaelh1> It's down as 'Undecided' and isn't clickable
[10:09]  * ogra fixes
[10:10] <michaelh1> Nice.
[10:11] <lag> ogra: I can only find the .img
[10:11] <ogra> lag, img of what ?
[10:12] <lag> This is what you linked me to:
[10:12] <lag> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-netbook/ports/daily-preinstalled/current/
[10:12] <ogra> lag, of the archive kernel package ? that should be a deb
[10:12] <michaelh1> lp #600541 (and that's enough)
[10:12] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 600541 in project-rootstock "--serial option doesn't work (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600541
[10:12] <lag> Doesn't look like a .deb to me
[10:12] <ogra> lag, oh, i understood you downloaded the archive kernel package :)
[10:12] <lag> Hence the confusion
[10:12]  * lag shrugs
[10:12] <lag> It's what you pointed me to
[10:13] <ogra> you need to bunzip the .img and dd it to SD
[10:13] <ogra> then boot the SD
[10:13] <ogra> note that we dont use serial output by default in the images
[10:13] <ogra> since that breaks the bootsplash
[10:14] <ogra> so before booting it you might want to mount mmcblk0p1 and modify boot.scr
[10:14] <ogra> on your host machine
[10:16] <ogra> lool, i saw you pasting some swapfile creation code in #linaro yesterday, i would like to use that in jasper, how do you determine $SIZE for it ?
[10:17] <ogra> is that a made up value or do you create it based on ram size etc ?
[10:19] <lool> ogra: See lp:linaro-image-tools
[10:19] <lool> I didn't work on it myself
[10:19] <ogra> yeah, i got that from your comment, i just thought it makes sense to use the same code
[10:19] <ogra> especially since asac will likely use pieces of jasper
[10:22] <ogra> ah, crap, SWAP_SIZE is a cmdline parameter ... i was hoping for some detection code
[10:24] <ogra> hmm creating the file under /mnt is brave ... it will vanish if the user mounts something in /mnt
[10:26] <ogra> lool, thanks, i'll steal some parts fo it, who owns it ?
[10:27] <ogra> s/fo/of/
[10:30] <lool> ogra: I dont know
[10:31] <lool> ogra: bzr blame
[10:39] <lool> ogra: Could you please reassign LP #600478 where it belongs?  I would say either ubuntu-seeds or ubuntu-cdimage
[10:39] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 600478 in netbook-remix "Remove dependencies on dove and imx kernel headers for maverick (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600478
[10:39] <lool> or ubuntu-meta
[10:39] <lool> or livecd-rootfs
[10:39] <lool> Actually quite certainly not ubuntu-meta
[10:55] <lag> ogra: What happens when you try to boot that image?
[10:59] <lag> Let's try ogra_cpmc
[11:06] <ogra_cmpc> lool, ist livecd-rootfs and its long on my list
[11:06] <lool> ogra_cmpc: Could you move the bug so that it's not against an unused upstream project?
[11:06] <ogra_cmpc> lag, i see it booting the kernel on serial but no output on screen
[11:06] <ogra_cmpc> lool, will do
[11:06] <lag> I have a login console on the screen
[11:07] <lool> GrueMaster: Mind reporting bugs against either Ubuntu packages or ubuntu-cdimage rather than netbook-remix? netbook-remix should not be used anymore
[11:07] <lag> Although, it won't power a mouse
[11:07] <lool> GrueMaster: TIA!
[11:07] <lag> I'm going to try it on mains power in a moment
[11:07] <ogra_cmpc> lag, did you use the image or did you just rip out the kernel from the image ?
[11:07] <lag> Just the image
[11:08] <lag> Nothing more
[11:08] <lag> Nothing less
[11:08] <ogra_cmpc> weird
[11:08] <lag> ;)
[11:08] <lag> What commandline are you using?
[11:08] <ogra_cmpc> modified boot.scr ?
[11:08] <ogra_cmpc> the default one
[11:09] <lag> Let me try with the default one
[11:09] <ogra_cmpc> what did you use ?
[11:09] <lag> setenv bootargs console=ttyS2,115200n8 console=tty2 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootwait ro vram=12M omapfb.mode=dvi:1280x720MR-16@60 fixrtc; mmc init; fatload mmc 0 80300000 uImage; bootm 80300000
[11:10] <lag> Did you see the console on the screen?
[11:10] <ogra_cmpc> hmm, thats not using the initramfs
[11:10] <ogra_cmpc> no
[11:10] <lag> The default prints to my screen
[11:10] <ogra_cmpc> attached to dvi ?
[11:11] <ogra_cmpc> my monitor doewsnt even power on
[11:11] <lag> But it says "hub 1-0:1.1: unable to enumerate USB device on port 2
[11:11] <lag> "
[11:11] <lag> HDMI
[11:11] <ogra_cmpc> aha !
[11:11] <lag> But the DVI output yes
[11:11] <lag> There aren't any USB devices plugged in?
[11:11] <ogra_cmpc> i'll try hdmi soon
[11:12] <ogra_cmpc> i have my powered hub plugged in
[11:12] <lag> It's going nuts
[11:12] <lag> No login console now
[11:12] <ogra_cmpc> you shouldnt get a console unless the image resized itself
[11:13] <ogra_cmpc> that will take about 10min it should tell you though
[11:13] <lag> I just have lots of 'hub' error messages
[11:13] <ogra_cmpc> sounds like the udb driver has issues
[11:14]  * ogra_cmpc finished his breakfast, let me go back to the office and try hdmi
[11:14]  * lag forgot all about breakfast
[11:14]  * lag is going now
[11:19] <lag> ogra_cmpc: How are you getting on?
[11:20] <ogra> nothing on HDMI
[11:20] <lag> I don't know what to tell you
[11:20] <lag> Mine works
[11:20] <lag> With my cmdline I get a login console
[11:20] <lag> With the default I get kernel messages
[11:20] <lag> Both on the monitor
[11:21] <ogra> thats really strange
[11:22] <ogra> i see u-boot messages on the serial console up to "Uncompressing Linux... done, booting the kernel."
[11:22] <ogra> +but the monitor never powers on
[11:22] <lag> Is the monitor on?
[11:22] <lag> Standby, off or on?
[11:23] <ogra> its the monitor with which i'm typing to you atm :)
[11:23] <ogra> i just switch the input source
[11:23] <hrw> ogra: disable 'quiet'?
[11:23] <ogra> so its on
[11:24] <ogra> hrw, there is no quiet on the image cmdline atm
[11:24] <asac> our headless images i was told have a console on screen (/me hopes)
[11:24] <ogra>     fatload mmc 0:1 0x80000000 uImage
[11:24] <ogra>     fatload mmc 0:1 0x81600000 uInitrd
[11:24] <ogra>     setenv bootargs vram=12M omapfb.mode=dvi:1280x720MR-16@60   root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 fixrtc
[11:24] <ogra>     bootm 0x80000000 0x81600000
[11:24] <ogra> thats the boot.scr we use in the image, works fine on C4
[11:24] <hrw> asac: first you need to have that console...
[11:24] <hrw> ogra: bbxm?
[11:24] <asac> ogra: thats on xm?
[11:25] <ogra> but we dont use a swapfile yet, so C4 goes OOM
[11:25] <ogra> asac, yes
[11:25] <asac> ah you are fighting netbook ;)
[11:25] <asac> fun
[11:25] <hrw> ogra: bbxm in ubuntu kernel do not have display iirc
[11:25] <ogra> asac, oem-config works
[11:25] <asac> didnt get info back on that from plars i remember now
[11:25]  * asac goes aksing
[11:25] <ogra> asac, just the desktop afterwards makes it die, i'll add swapfile creation to jasper_setup
[11:25] <asac> plars: did anything came out of the test without --live last night?
[11:26] <ogra> hrw, thats why i'm confused, it works fine for lag
[11:26] <ogra> hrw, same image, same board
[11:26] <asac> ogra: err. can you please not create swapfiles unless there is a special flag?
[11:26] <lag> ogra: "but we dont use a swapfile yet, so C4 goes OOM" - So does the XM
[11:26] <asac> we have our swap file in place ;)
[11:26] <asac> imo thats too far of magic to put into jasper
[11:26] <ogra> asac, is yours always in the same place ?
[11:27] <ogra> asac, its not, since jasper creates the partition table
[11:27] <asac> ogra: why?
[11:27] <lag> hrw: Works for me
[11:27] <asac> ogra: then jasper should not replace the swap part
[11:27] <ogra> its exactly what jasper needs to do
[11:27] <asac> if there is a swap entry... jasper could skip that step?
[11:27] <ogra> asac, if i can detect that you have a swapfile in place i can skip it
[11:27] <asac> ogra: right. you can detect that from fstab
[11:28] <ogra> right
[11:28] <asac> ogra: also i would really like to keep it optional to create one
[11:28] <asac> for some images we dont need it
[11:28] <ogra> asac, btw, i looked at your code, i dont think its clever to create the file under /mnt
[11:28] <asac> ogra: my code?
[11:28] <asac> you mean linaro-media-create?
[11:28] <ogra> if the user mounts something to /mnt it will be hidden
[11:28] <ogra> yeah
[11:28] <asac> let me lok at that code
[11:29] <asac> i agree. where should we put it?
[11:29] <ogra> i'm not sure how others use /mnt but i typically mount manually mounted stuff there by default
[11:29] <ogra> i would just put it in /
[11:29] <asac> we are redoing parts of it today anyway
[11:29] <asac> hmm
[11:29] <asac> lool: any opinion?
[11:29] <asac> e.g. where to put SWAP.swp file
[11:30] <asac> we currently have that in mnt ... which feels odd indeed
[11:30] <lool> I think mnt is a bad idea
[11:30] <lool> on my systems, I used to put it in /srv and now it's in /
[11:30] <asac> ok ... lets go for / then
[11:30]  * asac changes that
[11:30] <lool> but neither is FHS compliant I'm afraid
[11:31] <ogra> is there any FHS recommendation for swapfiles ?
[11:31] <lool> In general, swap files are not as good as swap partitions, so we should aim for that if possible
[11:31]  * ogra never heard of that
[11:31] <lool> ogra: that's the issue, there is none
[11:31]  * ogra was planning to usw a swap partition with jasper since i repartition anyway
[11:31] <lool> ogra: but FHS does list what's supposed to be in /
[11:31] <ogra> ah
[11:31] <lool> It could in theory be /var/cache/swap too
[11:31] <ogra> yeah
[11:31] <asac> pushed
[11:32] <asac> lool: rather /var/cache ;)? (feels a bit nicer to me)
[11:32] <lool> I think doing it in the form of jasper is not too inelegant, albeit it's important that the user has control on whether or not swap will be created, where, and how large
[11:32] <ogra> sounds sane
[11:32] <lool> this is all very hard to implement consistently
[11:32] <asac> well. lets keep it in /
[11:32] <lool> asac: I would consult with installer folks to get a better opinion
[11:33] <asac> i think /var doesnt exist on casper etc.
[11:33] <lool> I think / is good for our current mode of development, but should be revisited
[11:33] <asac> right
[11:33] <asac> lets file a bug
[11:33]  * asac goes for it
[11:33] <ogra> casper is tricky anyway
[11:33] <ogra> since you use an aufs mount
[11:34] <ogra> creating a swapfile will just eat your ram in casper
[11:35] <ogra> lag, XM shouldnt OOM at all it has 512M
[11:35] <ogra> lag, when do you get OOM ? if you start the desktop ?
[11:35] <lag> The desktop starts automagicly
[11:35] <lool> You should not create a swap file in casper's tmpfs mode
[11:36] <lag> I didn't get oom this time
[11:36] <lool> but casper also supports persistent read-write, and that partition could host a swap file
[11:36] <ogra> lool, well, ubiquity would need to learn about it so it gets copied to the target
[11:36] <lool> ogra: Could you help me reproduce a flash-kernel config as in current Ubuntu beagles installs?
[11:37] <asac> why dont we just offer to create a swap partition in linaro-media-create?
[11:37] <ogra> lool, NAND ?
[11:37] <asac> rather than a file
[11:37] <ogra> asac, files ar more modern ? :P
[11:37] <ogra> j/k
[11:38] <asac> ok filed bug 600561
[11:38] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 600561 in linaro-image-tools "revisit way and place to handle swap file creation (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600561
[11:39] <ogra> lool, what do you need ?
[11:40] <lool> ogra: yes NAND
[11:41] <lool> ogra: whatever Ubuntu currently does
[11:41]  * lool apt-get install linux-omap flash-kenrel
[11:41] <ogra> lool, vfat in maverick
[11:42] <lool> ogra: I thought it moved to NAND in lucid, now it's back to vfat??
[11:42] <ogra> lool, since i want to use identical images for omap3 and 4
[11:42] <ogra> XM, panda and blaze all dont have NAND
[11:42] <ogra> lool, thats why we produce the preinstalled images, jasper sets up a flash-kernel.conf
[11:43] <lool> ogra: Well I wouldn't mind the NAND version instead then, cause I dont have a vfat right now
[11:43] <ogra> based on that flash-kernel will use vfat or NAND (so upgraded lucid still uses NAND, new maverick installs use vfat)
[11:43] <ogra> lool, i thought asac's images use vfat
[11:44] <lool> It might, this is manually debootstraped
[11:44] <ogra> ah
[11:44] <lool> given the space I have on the rootfs, I prefer not splitting in more partitions
[11:44] <ogra> yeah, understood
[11:45] <ogra> lool, echo "/dev/mtd2 0x0000 0x20000 0x20000" > /etc/fw_env.config ... apt-get install uboot-envtools
[11:46] <lool> Ok thanks
[11:46] <ogra> lool, then: fw_setenv bootcmd nand read 80000000<PHONE_NUMBER>00;nand read 81600000<PHONE_NUMBER>000;bootm 80000000 81600000
[11:46] <ogra> or whatever you like there
[11:47] <ogra> and the same for fw_setenv bootargs with your args
[11:47] <lool> I have something like that already
[11:47] <ogra> good
[11:48] <lool> bootcmd=nand read 80000000<PHONE_NUMBER>00;nand read 81600000<PHONE_NUMBER>000;bootm 80000000 81600000
[11:49] <lool> seems the same
[11:49] <ogra> yeah
[11:49] <lool> Generating kernel u-boot image... /usr/sbin/flash-kernel: 738: mkimage: not found
[11:49] <ogra> oh, i was assuming you had that :)
[11:49] <ogra> flash-kernel-installer isntalls it in lucid
[11:49] <ogra> sorry
[11:49] <lool> np
[11:49] <lool> just for reference
[11:50] <ogra> yep
[11:51]  * lool crosses fingers
[11:51]  * ogra crosses fingers too
[11:51]  * lool crosses toes
[11:51] <ogra> lol
[11:52] <ogra> lag, so my XM seems to actually not boot at all
[11:52] <ogra> i just tried with a console= option to force serial
[11:52] <lag> Have you broken it?
[11:52] <lool> I get kernel startup messages at least
[11:52] <lool> [    4.503997] mmc0: error -110 whilst initialising SD card
[11:53] <lag> lool: What SD card are you using?
[11:53]  * lool reboots, issues a manual mmcinit and resets
[11:53] <lool> lag: A Sandisk Extreme III
[11:53] <ogra> lool, is that a maverick kernel ?
[11:53] <lool> Yes
[11:53] <ogra> thats a known bug
[11:53] <ogra> some SDs work, some dont
[11:53] <lag> lool: Is that an SDHC card?
[11:54] <lool> lag: yes
[11:54] <ogra> try a class2 SD
[11:54] <lool> I dont have any
[11:54] <ogra> bad
[11:54] <lool> This is my rootfs too, so I'm stuck
[11:54] <lag> lool: Use a normal SD card
[11:54] <hrw> -110? isn't it timeout?
[11:54] <lool> is there a workaround
[11:54] <ogra> hrw, right
[11:54] <ogra> lool, only to use a different SD
[11:54] <lool> cant do that
[11:54] <lag> lool: Yes, but you have to recompile the kernel without preemption
[11:54] <hrw> and sandisk extreme III is class6 or higher?
[11:54] <lool> lag: will that happen in ubuntu "soon"?
[11:54] <ogra> lool, http://launchpad.net/bugs/591941
[11:54] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 591941 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 1 other project) "SDHC card not recognized (affects: 2) (dups: 1) (heat: 171)" [High,In progress]
[11:55] <hrw> I am waiting for 2 class10 4GB sd cards
[11:55] <lag> lool: It's being worked on
[11:55] <ogra> mpoirier works on it
[11:55] <lag> Correct
[11:55] <ogra> he just didnt make it before A2
[11:55] <ogra> due to more critical bugs that were there
[11:55] <lool> Ok, will ping him when he shows up
[11:56] <ogra> lag, http://paste.ubuntu.com/457777/
[11:56] <ogra> gets stuck there
[11:56] <lool> is there a known good 2.6.35 maverick kernel out there somewhere?
[11:56] <lag> ogra: I don't know what to say
[11:56] <ogra> lag, do you get the i2c error too ?
[11:56] <lag> ogra: Incompatible monitor?
[11:57] <lag> From uboot?
[11:57] <ogra> i doubt that, i had it booting once with a TI kernel
[11:57] <ogra> lag, see my paste
[11:57] <lag> timed out in wait_for_pin: I2C_STAT=100
[11:57] <lag> I2C read: I/O error
[11:57] <lag> Yes
[11:57] <hrw> lag: uboot?
[11:57] <ogra> hmm, k so its not u-boot
[11:57] <lag> U-Boot 2010.03-rc1 (Jun 01 2010 - 09:57:03)
[11:57] <ogra> lag, see my paste, monitor isnt involved
[11:58] <ogra> i force seial output
[11:58] <hrw> lag: you do not have any BB expansion boards - thats why
[11:58] <ogra> lag, the kernrel isnt booting at all for me
[11:58] <hrw> BB u-boot checks on i2c for expansion board ID
[11:58] <lag> ogra: Don't panic - wait one
[11:58] <ogra> hrw, yeah, i just wanted to make sure its not whats blocking my boot
[11:58] <ogra> lag, i have my towel :)
[11:59] <hrw> ogra: if you would have old xloader then it would block by halting on i2c
[11:59] <lag> ogra: Now panic - that commandline works for me
[11:59] <lag> I have serial
[11:59]  * ogra throws the towel away and panics
[11:59] <lag> It dies when trying to mount rootfs, but I get serial
[12:00] <ogra> indeed it dies ...
[12:00] <ogra> hrm
[12:00] <lag> setenv bootargs console=ttyS2,115200n8 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootwait ro vram=12M omapfb.mode=dvi:1280x720MR-16@60 fixrtc; mmc init; fatload mmc 0 80300000 uImage; bootm 80300000
[12:00] <lag> That goes all the way for me
[12:00] <ogra> indeed
[12:00] <lag> Login console and everything
[12:01] <ogra> but if setenv bootargs console=ttyS2,115200n8;  mmc init; fatload mmc 0 80300000 uImage; bootm 80300000 doesnt get me kernel output there is something really screwed up
[12:01] <ogra> i know that board works though, i used it with a TI binary kernel amitk gave me in lucid
[12:03] <lag> I'm using the same image as you?
[12:03] <lag> And it works for me
[12:03] <lag> I don't know what else to tell you?
[12:04] <ogra> could you try a complete install on the board ?
[12:04] <lag> Tell me how and I'll happily oblige
[12:04] <ogra> should work with just re-dd'ing the image and booting it up
[12:05] <lag> I dd'ed it once?
[12:05] <ogra> you should see "resizing root filesystem, this will take 10 minutes" shortly after boot, then it should boot into oem-config
[12:05] <ogra> but you booted it already with the default options, that might have started the resize process
[12:06] <ogra> i want to make sure a virgin boot works on XM+
[12:06] <ogra> s/+//
[12:06] <lag> I'll dd /dev/zero to it first
[12:06] <ogra> shouldnt be needed
[12:06] <ogra> it overwrites the partition table anyway
[12:08] <lag> This is true
[12:08] <lag> dd'ing in progress
[12:08] <ogra> thanks
[12:08] <ogra> you should come to X and oem-config eventually
[12:20] <ogra> lag, !
[12:20] <ogra> setting earlyprintk=dbgp on the cmdline gets me more !
[12:21] <ogra> lag, http://paste.ubuntu.com/457787/
[12:21] <ogra> [    0.000000] WARNING: at /build/buildd/linux-2.6.35/arch/arm/mach-omap2/clkt_clksel.c:375 omap2_init_clksel_parent+0xe8/0xf8()
[12:21] <ogra> [    0.000000] clock: dpll4_m3_ck: init parent: could not find regval 0
[12:21] <lag> I don't know what you're doing do your poor board
[12:22] <lag> I get the "hub" messages displayed on my monitor again
[12:23] <ogra> seems the kernel isnt proper yet
[12:28] <ogra> lag, at least it doesnt seem to be the board but the kernel in my case
[12:29] <ogra> it seems to initialize a lot of stuff but also fails on a bunch
[12:29] <lag> paste?
[12:29] <ogra> i dont really get why it gets quiet without earlyprintk set though
[12:29] <ogra> http://paste.ubuntu.com/457787/
[12:31] <ogra> [    0.000000] ------------[ cut here ]------------
[12:31] <ogra> [    0.000000] WARNING: at /build/buildd/linux-2.6.35/arch/arm/mach-omap2/serial.c:727 omap_serial_init_port+0x74/0x1e4()
[12:31] <ogra> [    0.000000] (null): can't init uart3, no clocks available
[12:31] <ogra> aha
[12:31] <ogra> that seems to be the reason why i get no output
[12:31] <lag> I've had that dcache error, but it was just a one off
[12:31] <lag> Run it again
[12:32] <ogra> same thing, i ran it about five times now
[12:33] <ogra> beyond the serial and clocksel oopses it always dies with:
[12:33] <ogra> [    0.496704] kernel BUG at /build/buildd/linux-2.6.35/fs/dcache.c:1015!
[12:33] <ogra> [    0.503631] Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at virtual address 00000000
[12:33] <lag> Those clock errors are not show-stoppers
[12:34] <lag> http://paste.ubuntu.com/457791/
[12:34] <ogra> well, it seems to cause serial to not be initialized
[12:34] <ogra>     0.000000] WARNING: at /build/buildd/linux-2.6.35/arch/arm/mach-omap2/serial.c:727 omap_serial_init_port+0x74/0x1e4()
[12:34] <ogra> [    0.000000] (null): can't init uart3, no clocks available
[12:34] <lag> Only uart3
[12:34] <lag> I'm not even sure if there is a uart3 on the board
[12:34] <lag> How many did the C4 have?
[12:35] <ogra> no idea
[12:36] <zyga_> ogra, do you have access to imx51?
[12:36] <ogra> zyga_, yes, its my main armel build machine
[12:36] <zyga_> ogra, could you pastebin /proc/cpuinfo for me
[12:37] <zyga_> ?
[12:37] <ogra> its a babbage 2.5, is that waht you need ?
[12:37] <zyga_> ogra, I need the actual output
[12:38] <zyga_> I'm doing fingerprinting / device discovery
[12:38] <ogra> http://paste.ubuntu.com/457796/
[12:38] <zyga_> ogra, thanks :-)
[12:39] <ogra> zyga_, note that the Revision id is different between 1.0, 2.0, 2.5 and 3.0
[12:39] <ogra> i only have a 2.5 around here
[12:40] <zyga_> ogra, thanks - this is important information
[12:42] <lag> ogra: With the correct file now in /etc/init/ I now get: http://paste.ubuntu.com/457797/
[12:42] <lag> Via serial
[12:42] <lag> And a login prompt via HDMI
[12:42] <ogra> lag, no X ?
[12:42] <ogra> it should fire up oem-config
[12:42] <ogra> which runs under X
[12:43] <ogra> to set up kbd/lang/TZ and user
[12:43] <lag> How do you mean? On the monitor?
[12:43] <ogra> yes
[12:43] <lag> Just the Ubuntu GUI login prompt is visible and the purple background
[12:43] <ogra> first of all it expands the rootfs to the full size of the SD ... that takes about 10min
[12:44] <lag> I didn't see it
[12:44] <ogra> then it continues booting to oem-config and lets you set up the initial user etc
[12:44] <lag> Initial user is acorn
[12:44] <ogra> thats a complete default boot?
[12:45] <ogra> no it isnt
[12:45] <lag> That's all I'm getting
[12:45] <ogra> you didnt touch boot.scr or anything ?
[12:45] <lag> But I can't login because USB doesn't seem to be working
[12:45] <lag> Nothing
[12:45] <ogra> you dont have a user anyway
[12:45] <lag> acorn
[12:45] <ogra> no
[12:45] <lag> Oh, that is the machine name
[12:45] <ogra> thats the build machine name ...
[12:46]  * lag wins
[12:46] <ogra> it defaults to that if oem-config hasnt run yet
[12:46] <lag> It might do something if I click on the login
[12:46] <ogra> no
[12:46] <ogra> there is no user on the machine yet
[12:46] <ogra> oem-config creates it
[12:46] <ogra> if oem-config didnt run you cant log in
[12:47] <ogra> oem-config enablement is done from the initramfs
[12:47] <ogra> seems some part of that initramfs stuff didnt run at all for you
[12:48] <berco> ogra: I tried to mimic /lib/udev/rules.d/61-gnome-bluetooth-rfkill.rules file for syslink but it doesn't work. look at the change I made: http://pastebin.com/ZUepf5bm
[12:48] <ogra> berco, hmm
[12:50] <ogra> berco, that should definately work, is the device actually called syslink ?
[12:50] <ogra> also i'm not sure the wildcard works for that
[12:52] <ogra> berco, try moving it earlier
[12:52] <ogra> berco, make it 60- instead of 90- and try again
[12:57] <lool> Ah national day for mpoirier
[13:04] <berco> ogra: sorry, got preempted in my office
[13:05] <berco> ogra: several devices for syslink that are called syslink_ipc, syslink-proc4430 and syslink-procmgr
[13:05] <berco> that why I put a "*"
[13:12] <lag> ogra: What were your main reasons for not changing /etc/modprobe
[13:12] <lag> ogra: Or for not wanting to
[13:13] <lag> What about ogra_cmpc?
[13:15] <ogra> lag, simply because i think it should be done by the kernel as any other device
[13:16] <ogra> lag, we dont use /etc/modules for anything atm since the kernel is usually capable of detecting all devices, it just seems logical to me that it should do that for syslink devices too
[13:16] <lag> ogra: What about udev rules?
[13:16] <ogra> lag, i'm not opposed to use /etc/modules if there is no other way
[13:17] <ogra> udev rules need a udevent from the kernel
[13:17] <ogra> *uevent
[13:17] <lag> Correct
[13:17] <ogra> where would that event come from ?
[13:17] <ogra> its normally exposed once the module is loaded
[13:17] <lag> So if we can conger one of these ...
[13:18] <ogra> well, if you can trigger a uevent you can as well directly load the module, no ?
[13:18] <lag> No, it doesn't work like that
[13:18] <ogra> well, when do you trigger the uevent ?
[13:18] <lag> udev is a userspace daemon
[13:18] <ogra> i know
[13:19] <ogra> the uevent comes from the kernel though
[13:19] <lag> Correct
[13:19] <ogra> so how do you know you have to trigger such an event ?
[13:19] <lag> This will be triggered when the device driver registers with the platform driver
[13:20] <ogra> what makes the device driver register ?
[13:20] <lag> We doe
[13:20] <lag> do*
[13:20] <lag> From the board specific code
[13:20] <ogra> and how do we know we want to register that driver ?
[13:21] <lag> Because there is board detection within the kernel
[13:21] <ogra> i.e. i have board X and board Y, one has the HW one doesnt
[13:21] <lag> Correct
[13:21] <ogra> and both use the omap4 kernel
[13:21] <lag> __init boardX()
[13:21] <lag> No
[13:21] <lag> Oh hang on
[13:21] <ogra> and there you have the info that board has device ZZZ ?
[13:21] <lag> Let's step back one
[13:22] <ogra> if thats the case we dont need /etc/modules i'd say :)
[13:22] <lag> Once kernel will run on OMAP3 and OMAP4
[13:22] <ogra> lets not make it more complicated :)
[13:22] <lag> All OMAP4 supported boards will need this driver
[13:22] <ogra> say we only have omap4
[13:22] <lag> Then that would be simple
[13:22] <ogra> and we have different boards, one has the HW one doesnt
[13:22] <lag> All OMAP4 board will have this device
[13:23] <ogra> well, hypothetical
[13:23] <lag> Not valid
[13:23] <ogra> say one does one doesnt
[13:23] <lag> ;)
[13:23] <lag> nec: Care to dive in?
[13:23] <ogra> you have a kind of db file/function "__init boardX()" that has the info that we need such a driver ?
[13:23] <lag> Correct
[13:23] <lag> Well ...
[13:24] <ogra> so why the heck would we need /etc/modules if that info is already in the kernel ?
[13:24] <lag> __init boardX() will register the driver
[13:24] <ogra> right
[13:24] <lag> __init boardY() will not
[13:24] <ogra> so it can autoload the module
[13:24] <lag> Forget /etc/modules
[13:24] <ogra> no need for /etc/modules :)
[13:24] <lag> Correct
[13:24] <ogra> thats what we want then
[13:24] <lag> But we do need the correct udev rules
[13:24] <ogra> right, thats another thing
[13:25] <ogra> but thats trivial
[13:25] <ogra> see what i'm working on above with berco
[13:25] <ogra> ;)
[13:25]  * lag looks
[13:25] <ogra> we'll take care for that, you just make sure the driver is loaded and the uevent is exposed
[13:25] <ogra> userspace is my part :)
[13:26] <ogra> berco, so can you try moving the file to 60- isntead of 90- so it gets run before /lib/udev/rules.d/70-acl.rules ?
[13:27] <ogra> berco, if that doesnt work i have one other idea
[13:55] <ogra> lag, ha !
[13:55] <ogra> lag, found the XM issue
[13:56] <lag> Go on?
[13:56] <ogra> it's u-boots fault
[13:56] <lag> Okay ...
[13:56] <ogra> i guess i need to update to a newer version
[13:56] <lag> But wasn't that on the card?
[13:56] <lag> And is the same version as I am using?
[13:56] <ogra> replacing our u-boot with http://rcn-ee.net/deb/tools/UBOOT/u-boot-beagleboard-2010.03+r52+gitrca6e1c136ddb720c3bb2cc043b99f7f06bc46c55-r52.bin makes it all work for me
[13:56] <lag> Congras
[13:57] <lag> Congrats*
[13:57]  * lag pats ogra on the back
[13:57] <rcn-ee> (and that's from angstrom... ;) source wise.. )
[13:58] <ogra> lag, same USB issue
[13:58] <ogra> lag, i guess that will need kernel work
[13:58] <ogra> rcn-ee, well, we're using 2010.03-rc1, you seem to use a non rc version
[13:58] <lag> No, must be userspace ;)
[13:58] <ogra> i guess its a simple matter of upgrading the source
[13:59] <ogra> lag, :P
[13:59] <lag> ogra: Can you file it as a bug
[13:59] <rcn-ee> strange.. the old rc1 seemed to work fine on my proto xm..
[13:59] <lag> I'm working on something else at the moment
[14:00] <ogra> rcn-ee, i would expect that too here
[14:00] <ogra> but apparently it doesnt
[14:00] <lag> ogra: I think it is an initrd issue
[14:00] <lag> As this problem does not occur with my kernel cmdline
[14:00] <ogra> lag, i pretty much doubt that
[14:01] <ogra> lag, i think its a broken module ... without initrd you wont load any usb modules
[14:01] <lag> Ah
[14:01] <ogra> thast why your cmdline works
[14:01] <lag> That makes sense
[14:02] <lag> Again, can you report it please?
[14:02] <ogra> i will
[14:03] <ogra> rcn-ee, do you have a link to the git tree you used for u-boot ? i'd like to compare with the gitorious tree i use
[14:07] <ogra> berco, did moving the file fix it ?
[14:19] <rcn-ee> ogra, yeah, this tree usually has the community patches.. http://www.sakoman.com/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=u-boot.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/omap3-v2010.3
[14:20] <rcn-ee> plus what was here on that day: http://cgit.openembedded.org/cgit.cgi/openembedded/tree/recipes/u-boot/u-boot_git.bb  (the u-boot i build are straight from the angstrom build system)
[14:28] <ogra> rcn-ee, hmm, there are only two patches on top of what i use
[14:28] <ogra> the overo one and koens
[14:37] <plars> asac: still having problems getting the image creation to work, sorry :(
[14:38] <ogra> plars, do you still have an XM ?
[14:38]  * ogra is looking for another tester
[14:38] <plars> ogra: nope, I had to send that one back a long time ago :(
[14:38] <ogra> ok
[14:38] <plars> but I heard that it was supposed to work now
[14:38] <ogra> thanks
[14:39] <ogra> well, partially
[14:39] <ogra> seems we have some u-boot issues that dont show up on every board and some usb issues
[14:41] <asac> plars: kk
[14:41] <asac> np ... headless is the world for now then ;)
[14:41]  * ogra wishes he had headless images :/
[14:41] <ogra> netbook is a pain
[14:42] <ogra> on the C4 at least
[14:43] <Hanmac> the problem of arm-netbooks is that most of them has not enough resolution to run the program i need ... the netbook has 1024*600 i need 1024*768
[14:44] <plars> Hanmac: that goes for atom netbooks as well I'm afraid
[14:46] <Hanmac> with wine i can emulate a higher resolution ... but wine does not work on arm?
[15:03] <cwillu> Hanmac, wine doesn't include an x86 emulator
[15:03] <cwillu> it would be possible to have windows arm binaries, (compiled against winelib for instance), but... there'd be no place to run them
[15:03] <Hanmac> so i need qemu or something?
[15:04] <cwillu> wait, why do you need 1024x768, such that simply emulating it would suffice?
[15:05] <cwillu> sounds like a misunderstanding of the technology
[15:08] <Hanmac> do you know the RPGMakerVX?
[15:08] <cwillu> no, nor do I care to :p
[15:08] <cwillu> the correct answer is "I have a particular program that requires it" :p
[15:09] <cwillu> how exactly does wine handle it though?
[15:09] <cwillu> does it just give you a window that you can scroll?
[15:10] <Hanmac> yes, wine can make a virtual desktop with an higher resolution then your real desktop
[15:10] <cwillu> okay, but you can make windows larger than your screen too :p
[15:10] <cwillu> alt-drag
[15:11] <cwillu> (alt-drag anywhere in the window allows you to move it, including off any edge)
[15:11] <Hanmac> it is a windows application and  it needs 1024x768 resolution or higher to run, on a system with 1024x600 it does not run
[15:12] <cwillu> so it's a broken program
[15:12] <cwillu> was under the impression anyway that wine was a workaround for the resolution thing rather than the only way you could run the program anyway
[15:13] <cwillu> in the arm case, qemu + wine would be your only option, and it's not gonna be quick
[15:13] <cwillu> you'd probably have more luck running it via remote x or vnc or some such :)
[15:14]  * cwillu googles rpgmakervx against his better judgement
[15:16] <cwillu> wow, they used a forum to build their whole site :)
[15:17] <cwillu> Hanmac, I think your best bet would be to petition the developers to have the resolution check pop up a warning screen rather than blocking the application from loading
[15:17] <cwillu> that's what most sensible apps do
[15:18] <cwillu> I think there's also a compiz plugin that lets you scale down a single window
[15:20] <cwillu> hmm.  That was the shelf plugin, but it appears they removed the feature allowing you to still interact with the scaled window;  it was a bit glitchy, but it's sad to see them simply remove it instead of fixing it
[15:20] <Hanmac> i does not think that the VX is still developmend ... but i thy the idea with qemu and wine
[15:21] <cwillu> meh
[15:22] <cwillu> then you deserve your pain and suffering for using a closed source app :p
[15:23] <Hanmac> yes i doomed :P thats a reason why some of my friends thy to make a own maker for linux and also for arm
[15:26] <berco> ogra: sorry lots of meetings today. Not much concrete stuff :( I just tested with a 60-omap4.rules instead of 90- and explicitly wrote all the syslink entries instead of using *. Still not working.
[15:27] <berco> Is the ENV{ACL_MANAGE}="1" supposed to have the same effect as my original GROUP="video", MODE="0660" in the rules file?
[15:30] <ogra> berco, it routes device access thoguht policykit
[15:30] <ogra> berco, i'm in a call atm, let me give a rules file after that
[15:31] <berco> ogra: no pb. same here. talk to you later
[15:31] <lag> berco: How much do you know about syslink?
[15:31] <ogra> lag, he implements the userspace :)
[15:32] <lag> berco: Can you have someone contact me with regards to kernel related syslink things please?
[15:32] <ogra> lag, thats what we'Re working on above
[15:33] <lag> ogra: Yeah, I know, but I need to ask some questions before I can implement the kernel related bumph
[15:33] <ogra> ah
[15:34] <lag> berco: ack?
[15:44] <ogra> berco, so my call is over, can you try something like: http://paste.ubuntu.com/457858/ in your rule ?
[16:31] <hrw> hi prpplague
[16:32] <prpplague> hrw: greetings
[16:38] <berco> ogra: trying... just got back


[20:44] <LocutusOfBorg> cpaelzer, hello
[20:44] <LocutusOfBorg> sorry but I have to revert something you did in bionic in nss...
[20:44] <LocutusOfBorg>     - d/libnss3.links: make freebl3 available as library (LP: #1744328)
[20:45] <LocutusOfBorg> I think the library symlink belongs to the libnss3-dev package, not libnss3?
[20:47] <LocutusOfBorg> meh according to the bug, it might be correct that way
[20:47] <LocutusOfBorg> nevermind
[20:50] <LocutusOfBorg> unfortunately that DEB_HOST_MULTIARCH has been broken for quite some time and nobody noticed
[20:50] <LocutusOfBorg> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nss/2:3.55-1ubuntu4
[20:50] <LocutusOfBorg> so I guess it wasn't really needed?
[20:53] <LocutusOfBorg> in any case I converted it to use a links.in that is created during build, so we don't loose the +x anymore
[23:12]  * mwhudson is open to ideas for what to work on for his +1 shift btw
[23:13] <mwhudson> looking at python3-defaults currently
[23:39]  * ItzSwirlz does other dumb stuff, adds the advanced copy and move patch to his coreutils to get a dubm progress bar when he does stuff
[23:58] <mwhudson> anyone around to review https://code.launchpad.net/~mwhudson/ubiquity/+git/ubiquity/+merge/394609 ?
[23:59] <mwhudson> i might just merge and upload it later, it's pretty trivial


[10:31] <no0tic> hi
[10:33] <no0tic> I'd like to request the deletion of my personal wiki page (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/GabrielePostorino)


[02:49] <maco> ugh sanddbox is a pain in the ___
[02:54] <IdleOne> Now you can either follow the rules and guidelines or you can be banned
[02:54] <sanddbox> I disagree, now who do I consult?
[02:54] <IdleOne> !appeals
[02:54] <sanddbox> I am of course referncing the guideline "When disagreements occur, consult others"
[02:55] <sanddbox> Why was i kicked from #ubuntu?
[02:55] <IdleOne> you can consult the IRCC by following the link ubottu just gave you.
[02:55] <sanddbox> Why was i kicked from #ubuntu?
[02:55] <IdleOne> your attitude is poor and disruptive to the channel.
[02:55] <IdleOne> that is why I banned you.
[02:55] <sanddbox> your attitude is poor and disruptive to the community
[02:56] <sanddbox> i get what's going on
[02:56] <IdleOne> perhaps and you can bring that up to the IRCC if you like
[02:56] <sanddbox> i exercise my right to free speech and ask who to consult (per the guidelines)
[02:56] <sanddbox> and i get banned
[02:56] <IdleOne> you have no right to free speech on irc
[02:56] <sanddbox> you're destroying free speech as surely as obama is
[02:56] <maco> no i think the +q was at the repeated insults
[02:56] <maco> which, if you've read the rest of those two links you were given, you will see is not allowed
[02:57] <IdleOne> the +q was for repeated insults and general disruptive behavior
[02:57] <sanddbox> maco, i stopped the remarks after i was informed of the guidelines
[02:57] <maco> also, the first amendment does not apply to the internet
[02:57] <sanddbox> yes it does
[02:57] <sanddbox> the US controls the internet
[02:57] <maco> or to any form of censorship that is not imposed by the US Government
[02:57] <maco> no it doesn't
[02:57] <sanddbox> it was made by DARPA
[02:57] <maco> its been a long time since anyone but private ISPs controlled it
[02:57] <sanddbox> please, i don't want to get the cyber police involved
[02:57] <IdleOne> I think we are done here. You have the info you need to appeal my decision. Please part this channel
[02:58] <maco> the US Gov does not own Comcast, Verizon, etc. and i'm pretty sure the US doesnt control the Great Firewall of China
[03:02] <IdleOne> !ops | please remove sanddbox.
[03:02] <sanddbox> why can't I stay?
[03:02] <IdleOne> read the topic
[03:02] <IdleOne> no idle policy.
[03:02] <sanddbox> my issue is still not dealt withj
[03:03] <sanddbox> i haven't gotten a reply for my online appeal
[03:03] <IdleOne> it won't be dealt with tonight.
[03:03] <tonyyarusso> sanddbox: If you have anything relevant to address still we can do that, but I haven't seen one yet, so you'll want to get to it quick.
[03:03] <tonyyarusso> !appeals
[03:03] <tonyyarusso> ^^ there's the process from here.
[03:03] <maco> thats already been given
[03:04] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, well.
[03:04] <sanddbox> this environment feels hostile
[03:04] <IdleOne> been there done that. this ban will not be lifted by me anytime soon. IRCC is his next step.
[03:06] <bazhang> he wanted clippy?
[03:06] <maco> bazhang: it started there
[03:06] <bazhang> maco, I just read up on it
[03:07] <maco> then some "read things in the most inflammatory way possible" when we got to what a "bot" is
[03:07] <maco> (saying "yes theres a virus in the channel" was so so so tempting at that point)
[03:08] <bazhang> perhaps a vm with win? to get clippy
[03:09] <maco> i said ms office
[03:09] <maco> and then ze ewwww'd at it
[03:11] <bazhang> he's trying to get a cloak now to get around the ban
[03:12] <maco> oh dear
[03:12] <IdleOne> won't work
[03:12] <maco> mmm you did set it on host not nick
[03:13] <IdleOne> I set it on host, his attitude in that channel now won't get him a cloak
[03:13] <maco> ah
[03:13] <IdleOne> least I doubt it will
[03:13] <bazhang> or no, just trolling
[03:13] <maco> "why do you want a cloak?" "to get around a ban"
[03:18] <IdleOne> you know when jordan finally gets ops, we will probably have to remind him to join here :)
[03:18] <IdleOne> heh
[03:18] <bazhang> hehe
[03:18] <IdleOne> :)
[03:19] <maco> hang on.. rww should be allowed in here
[03:19] <maco> i was allowed here when i was just a #u-w op
[03:19] <bazhang> new rules in town
[03:20] <IdleOne> maco: rules got changed since then
[03:20] <maco> oh confusing
[03:20] <IdleOne> but he will be allowed soon enough (I hope)
[03:20] <IdleOne> rww and jordan_u +9000
[08:07] <Tm_T> ooh, free speech -card!
[08:07]  * Tm_T is reading logs
[08:27] <topyli> elky: there is the occasional random "join this team" clicker but it's not that bad. about the same level with the number requests for technical support through my individual launchpad page
[09:09] <elky> topyli, that's dropped a lot. we used to have almost daily
[09:33] <jussi> almost daily is a bit over the top - maybe weekly. but yeah, it has dropped significantly.
[09:37] <elky> it was more than weekly less than daily.
[09:38] <elky> but yeah, i'm not convinced you've managed to filter them out of the shortlist anyway.
[09:38] <jussi> I dont think we edited the list (unless someone did before I got to it)
[09:39] <elky> jussi, well... if topyli is telling the truth and you get some drive-by applicants, it must have been shortlisted.
[09:40] <topyli> no need, it wasn't that long. obviously we dropped some from the list that you saw, elky
[09:40] <elky> what list that I saw?
[09:40] <elky> i'm referring to the list I responded to yesterday
[09:40] <topyli> yes that one
[09:41] <elky> so you've dropped the one who didn't even bother to make a wiki page?
[09:41] <topyli> obviously not, since you saw that one :)
[10:28] <jussi> Ladies and gents, still waiting on more IRCC nominations, so if you think youve got something to bring to the table, lets have your nominations!
[10:33] <elky> how many seats are we needing to fill?
[10:35] <jussi> 2
[10:36] <elky> and how many nominations have been made?
[10:37] <ikonia> secret
[10:37] <elky> clearly
[10:37] <ikonia> no it is
[10:38] <elky> because sekrit hush hush election processes are apparently how we get the ircc to be more trusted...?
[10:38] <topyli> "too few". essentially, how many candidates we have and who they are should not affect your decision to run. we will know the names when it's time to vote
[10:38] <elky> topyli, oh, it's not going to affect /my/ decision to run. I've already signed up to the race
[10:38] <topyli> yep
[10:38] <elky> Oooh, unless i wasn't suppsoed to say that.
[10:39] <jussi> no, you are welcome to say, of course, just that we will not make comments on who is running until the time is up.
[10:39] <topyli> oh i'm sure you're allowed to talk about your own decisons
[10:39] <elky> i didn't ask /who/. I asked how many.
[10:42] <topyli> there might be a reason later to break down the number of candidates by "those who nominated on time," "those who eventually nominated during the extension," and "those on CC's eventual shortlist," but i don't see why we would do that. it's pretty much the CC's decision since they're the ones who appoint the ircc in the first place
[10:42] <elky> this ridiculous secrecy and back-room dealing culture is going to end.
[10:43] <topyli> ok
[10:43] <elky> the ircc now is less trustworthy than the ircc I was on which was accused as being untrustworthy.
[10:45] <elky> The ircc now doesn't treat ops as people, it treats them as numbers to allocate to boxes for micromanaging. it's not healthy.
[10:49] <topyli> you don't trust the ircc because it holds the election according to the charter set by the cc
[10:49] <elky> not true. I don't trust the ircc because "we can't tell you" is the default answer to everything.
[10:50] <elky> i don't trust the ircc because it doesn't listen to the ops anymore
[10:50] <topyli> that's not true either. we have told you many things
[10:51] <elky> i don't trust the ircc because of how i've seen it behave, and how i've seen it neglect the actions that would let it know what the ops feel about their roles.
[10:51] <elky> i don't trust the ircc because the ircc hasn't given me any reason to trust it.
[10:52] <elky> but it's taken plenty of them away.
[10:52] <jussi> elky: Im at work so answers are slow in coming, but care to be specific?
[10:53] <elky> jussi, when is the last time you put yourself in a position where you could witness ops candidly discuss what being an op is like?
[10:54] <jussi> elky: hrm?
[10:54] <elky> where do you interact with operators of channels in a manner in which they can express how they /really/ feel about things?
[10:55] <jussi> elky: If you are asking about the "alt channel" -Ive already proposed that, and its on the next meeting agenda... ?
[10:56] <topyli> mailing list, #ubuntu-irc-council, meetings, offhand. i'm not sure what you want
[10:56] <elky> topyli, how on earth can one be candid while knowing they're being watched?
[10:57] <topyli> the channel is private. pm is supported too
[10:58] <elky> topyli, nobody adhereing to the code of conduct can be truely candid there.
[10:58] <topyli> oh
[10:58] <elky> and to know what ops are feeling, you need to remove the code of conduct from the equation.
[10:59] <topyli> uh, no
[10:59] <elky> uh, yes.
[11:01] <elky> There is no way to know how an op is feeling if they're forbidden from expressing it.
[11:02] <jussi> elky: but ops are eloquent enough to express it within the CoC.
[11:03] <elky> You're fooling yourself if you really think that.
[11:03] <Tm_T> I slightly agree with elky, when expressing feelings, sstrong enforcing coc might be limiting
[11:03] <Tm_T> might, could, in some cases is
[11:04] <elky> jussi, it's like asking a child to be honest while the child knows that what is said will be relayed to the parents.
[11:05] <topyli> i'd prefer the child doesn't try to be civil just because s/he's afraid of parents
[11:05] <elky> topyli, that's what the CoC does to conversations.
[11:05] <elky> it forces the op to be civil for fear of the big bad CC
[11:06] <elky> it's been demonstrated to do so.
[11:06] <topyli> the metaphor is not very good though, children can't be fired if they're naughty. upholding the coc on the other hand is the ops' *job*
[11:06] <elky> topyli, no, it's the ops *HOBBY*
[11:06] <topyli> that said, i don't mind if you slip from the coc while in pm with me
[11:07] <topyli> or maybe even in the ircc's private channel
[11:07] <elky> the IRCC shouldn't be treating staff like the ops owe the ircc. that's another thing the ircc is doing to lose my trust
[11:07] <jussi> elky: some more info on that one also?
[11:08] <elky> er, ops like the ops. See! you make us think as though we're bound to this place to the point we call ourselves staff.
[11:08] <elky> jussi, your micromanaging. your grand "report your away days" thing.
[11:09] <elky> and if any of this is news to you, then that's a whole new reason for me to lose trust.
[11:10] <topyli> elky: sure, we're volunteers. upholding the coc on irc channels is a job we've taken upon ourselves because we want to, so it's different from wage labor. still i don't get why i should express my feelings in a rude way even if i'm unhappy
[11:11] <topyli> which, btw, i am atm :)
[11:11] <elky> topyli, maybe i should have scarequoted "civil" then. The coc enforces a pretty restrictive standard.
[11:11] <popey> elky: People are unable to express themselves within the CoC?
[11:12] <elky> there is no way one can fully express themselves and not be screamed down over coc. mentioning names is so frowned upon that we can't trust that we can say things about people.
[11:12] <topyli> not really. i like jdub's "don't be an asshat" definition of the coc, even if breaks the coc, strictly speaking
[11:12] <elky> popey, i cannot, for example, say an op is deficient in carrying out their role without being yelled at for personal attacks.
[11:12] <popey> You can.
[11:13] <topyli> sure you can
[11:13] <elky> popey, i've done it before and got screamed at, so no, i cannot.
[11:13] <jussi> elky: absolutely you can
[11:13] <jussi> elky: we have #ubuntu-irc-council expressly for items like that.
[11:13] <elky> jussi, which i dont visit anymore since i get kicked out of before getting a response
[11:13] <popey> The CC gets people complaining about other peoples conduct, and we take those seriously, we don't accuse the accuser of being in breach of the CoC
[11:14] <elky> popey, i must get special treatment then.
[11:14] <popey> I don't know (or have forgotten or mislaid the memory) of the specifics of what you're talking about, sorry.
[11:14] <elky> i'm serious. i've never been able to criticise someone and not get yelled at for it.
[11:15] <popey> Of course there's ways and means of doing that. But as I say, I don't know the specifics.
[11:16] <topyli> i don't remember yelling at anyone, but maybe my memory is selective
[11:16] <popey> "Joe is an asshat, and can't manage an irc channel because he sucks" vs "Joe has consistently shows an inability to control channel #x [citation] [citation]"
[11:16] <popey> (I am not pointing a finger at you elky, just stating the bleeding obvious)
[11:23] <Tm_T> it's breaching coc, but merely the fear of doing so that restricts, I can see
[11:23] <Tm_T> ...scroll <3
[14:47] <ikonia> hmmm, that didn't set a ban forward
[16:56] <IdleOne> morning
[16:58] <Tm_T> evening (:
[19:36] <rww> ^^ that could probably be worded better, but I keep seeing this mistake made in #ubuntu, so it might be nice to factoid it.
[19:38] <Pici> rww: I agree.
[19:39] <rww> Pici: I'll get to that floodbot doc today, btw. Apologies for the delay
[19:40] <charlie-tca> heh, but it does work to upgrade easily with modifying files from 10.04 to 10.10
[19:42] <rww> until someone who's actually running 10.10 runs it and ends up on natty. and then we all cry.
[19:42] <Pici> Well, we won't cry, they will.
[19:42] <rww> best to just stick to The Right Way To Do It, imho. same reason we don't recommend modifying sources.list and aptitude dist-upgrade
[19:43] <rww> Pici: the all-caps ranting about how Ubuntu sucks is painful to my ears :(
[19:43] <Pici> oh :(
[20:45] <ikonia> what's going on tonigth in #u ?
[20:52] <Pici> Its a full moon ;)
[20:54] <ikonia> RottNKorpse's attitude stunk in pm
[20:54] <ikonia> he feels it appropriate to mock users because "he's right" and won't follow guidelines as it's supressing his freedom of speach
[20:54] <mneptok> IMO, behavior in a PM without commensurate behavior on-channel does not warrant a removal
[20:55] <ikonia> mneptok: his behaviour in #ubuntu was unacceptable, so he was quieted, his follow up in pm making it clear he would not follow the channels guideslines, got him removed
[20:56] <ikonia> I'm hopeful that now he realises his attitude won't be tollerated, it will change and I can lift the ban
[20:56] <mneptok> well, it is a rotten corpse
[20:56] <mneptok> IME, zombies are not fast learners
[21:08] <Pici> Can someone keep an eye on -server for a few minutes, I need to drive home.
[21:08] <ikonia> yes
[21:08] <ikonia> although I don't have ops there
[21:08] <Pici> Hm, I thought you did.
[21:08] <ikonia> I've been trying to be more active in -server after urseuls comments
[21:08] <ikonia> Pici: it got lost with the launchpad re-shuffle/mess around
[21:09] <Pici> You should be active there, you know more about server stuff than I do ;)
[21:09] <ikonia> ha ha
[21:09] <ikonia> I'm trying to be more after it was pointed out we are not helping new users out well
[21:11] <mneptok> i think i used to have ops there, but i don't now.
[21:11] <ikonia> mneptok: there was a messing around with the groups on launchpad
[21:11] <ikonia> I just don't think it's been tidied up
[21:12] <mneptok> start the job with the full intention of finishing it completely, or don't start. ;)
[21:12] <ikonia> it will be fine, most stuff can be sorted out any way, drive home
[21:12] <mneptok> heh. soren has +o in -server, and has not worked for Canonical in months
[21:13] <ikonia> you don't have to work there to get +o
[21:13] <ikonia> he's pretty active i nthe server group
[21:13] <mneptok> because he's working for Rackspace. poached by Rick Clark. :)
[22:22] <tsimpson|n800> ikonia: there was no messing with regards to the LP teams and access lists, we only imported the access lists to LP. nothing in the reverse direction
[22:22] <ikonia> tsimpson|n800: I wonder what went wrong
[22:22] <ikonia> tsimpson|n800: (not with what you did)
[22:23] <ikonia> I'll just re-apply to the team, seems the simplest way
[22:25] <tsimpson|n800> I don't know, we havent done any "automatic" access management
[22:25] <ikonia> just re-applied, seems easy way to resolve it
[22:27] <IdleOne> if you need more eyes in -server I'd be happy to idle there, in fact I was idling there till znc got restarted
[22:59] <Pici> <.<
[22:59] <ikonia> ?
[23:21] <h00k> Congrats to the new ops.
[23:22] <Tm_T> wut 'appened?
[23:24] <popey> ooo yes, congrats to the new ops!
[23:26] <elky> Oh yay, an open invitation for all and any to apply to be ops of here.
[23:26]  * elky headdesks.
[23:26] <Tm_T> elky: ?
[23:27] <elky> "... and seeing lots of applications
[23:27] <elky> for the positions in #ubuntu-ops"
[23:27] <elky> I can't imagine how that's going to end well.
[23:27] <Pici> Uh.  We could have the Palin greeter be op here now.
[23:28] <Tm_T> oh, nice names in new ops list, congrats all
[23:34] <Tm_T> elky: if IRCC choose so, yes
[23:35] <elky> Tm_T, and considering the ircc decided that someone who greets sarahs with "hi palin" is suitible for ops anywhere... wow, the trust I can get from /that/ is astounding.
[23:36] <Pici> elky: I suggest you calm down.
[23:36]  * elky raises an eyebrow.
[23:55]  * h00k offers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hj9H4Ku9sQ
[23:58]  * mneptok offers up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbOjxU6OpoM


[17:45] <davromaniak> hi
[17:45] <davromaniak> I would like to know if there's a template page for the laptop tests on the wiki