[08:24] <NCommander> cjwatson: ping, I need some feedback on how best to build a d-i installer image in universe (needed for armadaxp, which will not have a kernel suitable for main)
[09:16] <cjwatson> NCommander: right, I was going over this with ogra last week.  Basically there's no point in uploading a d-i fork to universe because LP would publish the resulting custom upload to main anyway
[09:17] <cjwatson> NCommander: I think we might as well just have the standard d-i package build it, but designate it separately as unsupported-kernel or something
[09:17] <cjwatson> NCommander: it would just be a matter of setting 'UDEB_COMPONENTS = main/debian-installer universe/debian-installer' in the relevant configs, I thin
[09:18] <cjwatson> k
[11:18] <NCommander> cjwatson: isn't that a violation of policy though? d-i would have to depend on a universe udeb, and the resulting installer dists end up in main
[11:19] <cjwatson> NCommander: yes, but an acceptable one I think
[11:19] <NCommander> I would think that would need a tech board approval since it does a whole lot of ugly voodoo. From a supported/unsupported stance, it might just be easier to get LP to allow publishing installer stuff into dists/precise/universe
[11:20] <cjwatson> I doubt it, custom uploads are ghastly
[11:20] <NCommander> Well, BYHAND always has been. I still remember AUTOBYHAND >.<;
[11:20] <cjwatson> if it were easy I'd have done it - but it will require database changes to make suitable overrides exist at all
[11:21] <NCommander> cjwatson: universe/debian-installer already exists
[11:21] <cjwatson> that isn't relevant to debian-installer image tarballs.
[11:21] <NCommander> We have a special override for that?
[11:21]  * NCommander whimpers
[11:21] <cjwatson> no.  that's kind of the point!
[11:21] <NCommander> yeah
[11:21] <cjwatson> they just get shoved into main.
[11:21] <NCommander> cjwatson: well, there is option two
[11:22] <NCommander> Having an unsupported kernel in main. We have historical predencant for that
[11:22]  * NCommander glances at linux-ports
[11:22] <NCommander> and I prefer option two rather than breaking the main/universe divide IMH
[11:22] <NCommander> *IMHO
[11:22] <cjwatson> I don't mind that personally; but I also don't see any particular real difference between having the whole kernel in main, and just building those installer images from the kernel in universe and having free text somewhere to mark them unsupported
[11:23] <cjwatson> it's the same "unsupported stuff in main" policy violation either way, really
[11:23] <NCommander> cjwatson: less hackery to base-installer to let it install a kernel from universe for one (and probably other breakage)
[11:23] <NCommander> unless that got fixed without me noticing it
[11:24] <cjwatson> if we're talking netboot rather than CD (I assume we are), then that would take a few lines of extra code, yes
[11:24] <cjwatson> I'd be surprised if there were much else - most things have universe on by default now
[11:24] <NCommander> We need both
[11:24] <cjwatson> but sure, if you want to shove the kernel in main I don't object
[11:25] <cjwatson> though it's probably not me you need to get to agree to it :)
[11:25] <NCommander> I'll chew it out with davidm and then make a call.
[11:25]  * cjwatson nods
[11:25] <NCommander> cjwatson: well, if I want to crack d-i to build a package with universe udebs, I need the cjwatson seal of approval ;-)
[11:26] <cjwatson> you have my seal of approval to set UDEB_COMPONENTS in a flavour-specific d-i config file
[11:26] <NCommander> great
[11:27] <cjwatson> assuming it needs no actual build-dependencies from universe (not counting udebs)
[11:27] <cjwatson> if it does we'd need to think about that a bit
[11:27] <NCommander> cjwatson: everything else it needs should be in main already
[11:27] <NCommander> or at least promotable. the kernel is only living in universe because we can't realistically do 5 year support on a 3.0 kernel
[11:47] <CIA-2> ubiquity: cjwatson * r5164 trunk/.bzrignore: ignore src/wallpaper/.deps
[12:31] <CIA-2> ubiquity: cjwatson * r5165 trunk/ (80 files in 6 dirs): Make the "Choose a picture" page translatable (LP: #892384).
[12:34] <cjwatson> ev: damnit, you've (extremely belatedly) got me addicted to figuring out how to write test cases for ubiquity changes
[12:34] <ev> hahahaha
[12:34] <ev> excellent
[12:34] <cjwatson> I think actually hacking on Launchpad may have converted me, really; whodathunkit
[12:35] <ev> Michael Foord is never far if Mock is missing functionality or not working as expected
[12:37] <CIA-2> ubiquity: cjwatson * r5166 trunk/src/panel/panel.c: typo
[12:37] <cjwatson> not generally been running into that so far, thank goodness
[12:37] <cjwatson> (and I suspect I'd rearrange the code to make it more testable if I did)
[12:41] <CIA-2> ubiquity: cjwatson * r5167 trunk/ubiquity/frontend/gtk_ui.py: untabify
[13:01] <CIA-2> ubiquity: cjwatson * r5168 trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs):
[13:01] <CIA-2> ubiquity: Make the "run all pending GTK events" function accessible from
[13:01] <CIA-2> ubiquity: ubiquity.gtkwidgets, and use it in the test suite. This makes the test
[13:01] <CIA-2> ubiquity: suite about four seconds faster.
[13:06] <CIA-2> ubiquity: cjwatson * r5169 trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Fix sys.path mishandling in test suite.
[13:18] <CIA-2> ubiquity: cjwatson * r5170 trunk/tests/pyflakes.exclude: Remove a couple of obsolete pyflakes exclusions.
[13:45] <CIA-2> ubiquity: cjwatson * r5171 trunk/ (debian/changelog ubiquity/nm.py): Mark WPA2-only access points as secure.
[14:02] <ev> great stuff
[14:02] <ev> cheers
[15:17] <stgraber> cjwatson: looks like I'll have to revert that resolvconf netcfg change, with the new resolvconf from last week, we actually want d-i to cp /etc/resolv.conf to it or it causes bug 926447
[15:17] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 926447 in resolvconf "New resolvconf interacts badly with something in installs" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/926447
[15:17] <stgraber> I'm doing a test install to make sure that's indeed the problem
[15:19] <cjwatson> stgraber: OK, do as you need
[15:56] <stgraber> hmm, it's apparently not a netcfg issue but some script in base-installer (or a base-installer hook) messing with resolv.conf somehow ...
[15:57] <cjwatson> netcfg provides a base-installer hook ...
[16:02] <stgraber> indeed, but it seems to break in the post-base-installer ones
[16:02] <stgraber> right before the kernel installation
[16:02] <cjwatson> not sure what would be fiddling with resolv.conf there
[16:02] <stgraber> (apt_update succeeds but install_kernel doesn't): http://paste.ubuntu.com/831503/
[16:02] <cjwatson> maybe something being run in the chroot without /run bind-mounted?
[16:03] <cjwatson> hm, that shouldn't be the case for install_kernel though
[16:03] <stgraber> yeah, I'm not sure either, I now added a post-base-installer hook that basically sleeps for 2 minutes so I can look at what's going on in the target
[16:04] <cjwatson> you might also try set -x in /lib/chroot-setup.sh
[16:07] <stgraber> though what you said is interesting, debootstrap runs without /run bind-mounted which is fine and is perfectly supported, but if later on /run is indeed bind mounted, this will indeed break resolvconf as /run/resolvconf/resolv.conf won't exist outside the target, making /etc/resolv.conf dangling symlink in the target
[16:12] <stgraber> right, that indeed seems to be the issue, I'll simply change netcfg to also create /run/resolvconf and copy /etc/resolv.conf to /run/resolvconf/resolv.conf, then hopefully everything will just work
[16:35] <stgraber> cjwatson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/831562/ looks reasonable?
[16:38] <cjwatson> stgraber: yeah, I guess so
[16:39] <stgraber> we end up doing quite a bit of copying /etc/resolv.conf around, but it seems to work fine with that change
[16:39] <stgraber> I'll do a quick test of the ipv6 patch to make sure it doesn't regress anything and then upload a new netcfg
[17:25] <antarus> woo ;_
[17:32] <stgraber> so far it looks good, there are just 2 tests remaining (dual stack) and then it's good for upload
[17:37] <stgraber> confirmed to work without any detected regressions
[17:59] <GrueMaster> stgraber: Thought I might add an update in what I found with resolvconf over the weekend.  During netinstall, it fails at the point of pulling and installing a kernel (and everything from then on will fail with resolving the mirror).  dropping to a chroot shell and running "dpkg --force-all --revome resolvconf ; apt-get install resolvconf" and continuing with the netboot install works (dpkg & apt-get complain during that step, just
[17:59] <GrueMaster> ignore).
[18:00] <stgraber> GrueMaster: it's fixed
[18:00] <GrueMaster> s/--revome/--remove
[18:00] <stgraber> GrueMaster: I uploaded a new netcfg a few minutes ago :)
[18:00] <GrueMaster> Oh, cool.  Well then...nevermind.  :P
[18:00] <stgraber> GrueMaster: will need a d-i upload though to build new netboot images
[18:01] <stgraber> GrueMaster: the issue was /run from outside the target being mounted on top of /run in the target, hiding /run/resolvconf in the process
[18:01] <GrueMaster> ok.  After they post, it takes up to two hours for me to mirror before I can test.
[18:01] <GrueMaster> Oops.
[18:01]  * cjwatson fails to reproduce 924993 in the test suite, hmm
[18:07] <CIA-2> ubiquity: cjwatson * r5172 trunk/ (tests/test_wireless.py debian/changelog): Add initial tests for wireless page.
[19:54] <stgraber> cjwatson: do you see any reason why http://paste.ubuntu.com/831802/ would fix a bug in netcfg where dhcpv6 stateful (no v4 at all) in a container wasn't working (never could reproduce in a VM), knowing that dhcpv6_exit_status is only compared to 0 or not 0 in the code?
[19:55] <stgraber> I'm running all the tests with that change now to confirm netcfg does the right thing, if it does, then that's the end of the bug that was breaking one of my testcases ever since I moved from VM to LXC
[19:56] <stgraber> adding some debug, I saw that netcfg used to consider dhclient's return code to be 1 but with this change, it now says it's 0 (as expected)...
[19:56] <stgraber> running dhclient manually, I never could get it to exit 1 and even in debug mode, wouldn't see anything wrong in the log (and ipv6 was working fine)
[20:30] <stgraber> hmm, ok, looks like this is actually more part of the problem than the problem itself (which is good as I couldn't quite understand why that'd fix it). dhcpv6 stateful only works fine now but dual-stack dhcpv6 stateful + dhcpv4 now only gives me ipv4
[20:30]  * stgraber continues digging
[21:03] <stgraber> cjwatson: ok, so http://paste.ubuntu.com/831890/ did the trick and now I got all the tests to succeed, will talk to you about it tomorrow, I'm sure you had a good reason for that WIFSIGNALED
[22:32] <bicchi> I noticed something new in the netboot image of Precise Pangolin; It supports IPv6. Anyone knows if this can be disabled? There usually is a "d-i" parameter to turns some features off.
[22:35] <cjwatson> stgraber: instead, should probably only do either of those checks if waitpid succeeded
[22:36] <cjwatson> bicchi: one moment
[22:36] <cjwatson> bicchi: is it actually causing you a problem?  it should only have any effect if there are IPv6 autoconfiguration servers on the network
[22:36] <cjwatson> (aside from a delay)
[22:37] <cjwatson> bicchi: it doesn't appear to be configurable right now; that wouldn't be difficult to add if we were given a good reason
[22:38] <bicchi> cjwatson: I feel it is the root of the problem. The Ubuntu 10 netboot image is on the same network and doesn't have this problem. The first time I pxe boot, it fails to get a dhcp lease.
[22:38] <cjwatson> no such thing as "Ubuntu 10"
[22:38] <stgraber> bicchi: 11.10 also had ipv6 support
[22:38] <cjwatson> 10.04 or 10.10, I assume
[22:38] <bicchi> cjwatson: lucid
[22:38] <cjwatson> ok, 10.04.  (The 10 is a year, not a major version number)
[22:39] <cjwatson> there were lots of changes in netcfg between 10.04 and now, so you can't finger ipv6 support as the culprit just from that
[22:39] <cjwatson> let's see logs :)
[22:39] <cjwatson> (preferably from both the client and server, if possible)
[22:40] <bicchi> I can provide you part of the client:
[22:40] <bicchi> Dec  7 07:19:48 main-menu[349]: INFO: Menu item 'network-preseed' selected
[22:40] <bicchi> Dec  7 07:23:32 main-menu[349]: (process:1251): wget: bad address 'blah_blah'
[22:40] <bicchi> Dec  7 07:23:32 main-menu[349]: WARNING **: Configuring 'network-preseed' failed with error code 1
[22:40] <bicchi> the hostname blah_blah is the actually server with the preseed file
[22:41] <bicchi> during pxe booting it fails to obtain a dhcp address.
[22:41] <bicchi> in this case, i cannot ping blah_blah. but if I obtain a new lease with udhcpc, then i can ping that host.
[22:46] <cjwatson> if there's anything useful in the client log (there may not be), it will be before network-preseed starts
[22:47] <cjwatson> should be from netcfg
[23:03] <stgraber> cjwatson: running another set of tests with what should be a better fix for the problem, should have the results in ~10min (I need to make that stuff run in parallel)
[23:13] <stgraber> cjwatson: all the tests passed with http://paste.ubuntu.com/832023/
[23:14] <antarus> stgraber: what are you using to run tests?
[23:14] <stgraber> cjwatson: my current guess (from a quick look at the code) is that a subprocess or sub-subprocess of dhclient fails and that's what we were catching somehow (it looks like dhclient calls "ip" at some point which fails because of duplicate record but it's being ignored and AFAICS is safe to ignore)
[23:16] <stgraber> antarus: some python scripts I wrote driving libvirt and LXC containers. It's setting up 16 different networks (all combinations of ipv4 and ipv6), starts a container that's a router with an interface in each and the right radvd/dhcpd4/dhcpd6 config and then one "client" which is d-i running in LXC iterating through all the setups
[23:16] <stgraber> antarus: I still need to automate some more part of it to better test static IPs in preseed and have the reports be more than just a dump of test results on my screen :)
[23:17] <stgraber> the nice thing with running d-i in LXC is that I can easily modify any file in it or retrieve anything I want even while running
[23:17] <stgraber> that's on LP in: lp:~stgraber/+junk/v6-testing but quite behind from what I have currently here, I need to update the branch for Precise ...
[23:21] <antarus> stgraber: I was honestly hoping for a 'well we use this beautiful open source testing framework that you can download here!'
[23:21] <antarus> since we use...ummm autotest
[23:21] <antarus> and it sucks ;p


[05:13] <ajnr> Hi I am using ubuntu 12.04 , I am facing problem "shutdown hangs"  and also booting is very slow. I have tried with various trics but not able to find. plz help me out
[05:14] <ajnr> any one plz help me out
[05:23] <ajnr> it seems that all are sleeping !
[05:31] <ajnr> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-session/+bug/1186605 plz help me out
[05:31] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1186605 in indicator-session (Ubuntu) "12.04 ubuntu shutdown hangs " [Undecided,New]
[06:15] <ajnr>  hi my ubuntu 12.04 hangs while shut down , plz help me out to sort the problem. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-session/+bug/1186605
[06:15] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1186605 in indicator-session (Ubuntu) "12.04 ubuntu shutdown hangs " [Undecided,New]
[07:56] <iceroot> i am facing a bug on a dual-monitor setup but i am not sure which package i should use to report the bug. the short description is "suspending a dual-monitor system, after resume everything is fine until i hit a key, then the monitor-setup is switching from 2 screens to mirror mode" should i use the xorg itself as the target-package for the bug-report?
[19:17] <ajnr> Hi I am not able to resize the launcher icon size after upgrading my system from 12.04 LTS to 12.10. Any one plz let me know how to do? I would like to know also that, What is the most important things I have to do after upgrading , as initially I was not able to get the unity desktop, only mouse pointer it shows. but after I install unity, it shows the desktop icon.
[19:17] <penguin42> hey stop asking in all channels
[19:18] <TheLordOfTime> ajnr:  crossposting is bad, don't do it
[19:19] <ajnr> TheLordOfTime, ok
[19:44] <ArtGravity> Is anyone here able to help me figure out what package is the cause of a problem in Unity?
[23:40] <taowa>  Is anyone on the bug conto=rol team on?
[23:43] <jtaylor> yes but not for very long anymore
[23:43] <TheLordOfTime> taowa:  yes i'm on
[23:43] <TheLordOfTime> i -1'd your application, so did hggdh
[23:44] <taowa> I resent it
[23:44] <TheLordOfTime> but we don't normally discuss that here :p
[23:44] <TheLordOfTime> you're welcome to resent it, i'm immune to others opinions
[23:45] <taowa> I sent it again
[23:45] <TheLordOfTime> i saw
[23:45] <TheLordOfTime> i could run through every bug though.
[23:45] <TheLordOfTime> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/503779
[23:45] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 503779 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Support 128MB machines in Ubiquity." [Undecided,Opinion]
[23:46] <TheLordOfTime> setting a bug as just "opinion" is technically triage but not really.
[23:46] <taowa> I have added a comment
[23:46] <TheLordOfTime> it's a good idea, but i don't think that should have had "opinion"
[23:46] <taowa> So how should I set it
[23:47] <TheLordOfTime> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/userconfig/+bug/583430  <-- you've confirmed the bug here.  but just "confirming" a bug doesn't mean that really helps get it fully triaged if there's, say, not enough information in the bug.
[23:47] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 583430 in userconfig (Ubuntu) "kubuntu userconfig can silently delete group membership, causing loss of privileges" [High,Confirmed]
[23:47] <TheLordOfTime> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1176836  <-- "I couldn't reproduce" comments don't necessarily count as triage either
[23:47] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1176836 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "crash in instalation in virtualbox" [High,New]
[23:47] <TheLordOfTime> my -1 still stands.
[23:47] <TheLordOfTime> hggdh:  ping
[23:47] <TheLordOfTime> but i'm not going to argue this here
[23:47]  * TheLordOfTime goes back to poking nginx upstream to actually get a CVE addressed
[23:50]  * TheLordOfTime yawns
[23:50] <TheLordOfTime> taowa:  if you think my opinions and hggdh's opinions are invalid you should respond on the mailing list
[23:53] <taowa> Okay
[23:54] <TheLordOfTime> bug control applications aren't normally public
[23:54] <TheLordOfTime> well...
[23:54] <TheLordOfTime> rather, not all bugcontrollers are on IRC at the same time
[23:54] <taowa> They are...
[23:54] <TheLordOfTime> so it'is best to just comment or respond on the email
[23:54] <TheLordOfTime> no...
[23:54] <TheLordOfTime> taowa:  let's look at an example
[23:55] <taowa> https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bugcontrol/
[23:55] <TheLordOfTime> 08:00 UTC is 04:00 my timezone
[23:55] <TheLordOfTime> i may be CONNECTED to IRC but i'm not physically here
[23:55] <TheLordOfTime> a lot of people are like that here
[23:55] <taowa> I know
[23:55] <TheLordOfTime> so if you need to reach all the bugcontrollers use the mailing list
[23:55] <taowa> I know that
[23:55] <TheLordOfTime> then that's all that matters IMO :)
[23:55]  * TheLordOfTime yawns
[23:55] <TheLordOfTime> come on upstream, go check the cve... >.<
[23:57] <taowa> Can I msg you?
[23:58] <TheLordOfTime> message *me*?
[23:58] <TheLordOfTime> you *can* message me, doesn't 'mean i'm going to respond
[23:58]  * TheLordOfTime is multitasking with 50 tasks at once
[23:58] <TheLordOfTime> and because i'm juggling 50 things at once i might not respond immediately


[00:27] <Person987> Hi all, I'm trying to install the omap4 extras from TI on my Pandaboard.  I have reached a screen which wants me to agree to the "TI TSPA Object cod Software License Agreement".  It looks like a dialog box made with text graphics and has an <OK> at the bottom.  I can't figure out how to click "OK"  :-)
[00:29] <mythos> tab and enter?
[00:30] <Person987> Lol that works!
[00:30] <mythos> np
[03:14] <pnphi> joined
[03:15] <pnphi> excuse me
[03:18] <pnphi> excuse me
[04:23] <krosswindz> I am trying to build ubuntu oneiric kernel in a armel cross chroot
[04:23] <krosswindz> I am unable to build because of the following error: scripts/kconfig/zconf.tab.c:2505:0: internal compiler error: in insert_vi_for_tree, at tree-ssa-structalias.c:2740
[04:24] <krosswindz> I was wondering if anyone has seen this
[04:33] <mythos> hmm... wouldn't it be easier to cross-compile it outside the qemu-environment with CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux-gnueabi-?
[04:35] <krosswindz> mythos: I thought using a cross chroot I can leave my host environment unmodified
[04:36] <mythos> qemu does have some issues if a process needs to much memory (in my experience)
[04:36] <krosswindz> hmm
[04:36] <mythos> and you can set up a cross-compile-environment inside the chroot ;-)
[04:37] <krosswindz> ;)
[04:40] <mythos> but in fact, that was my my first shot/try also... it works, but has it's limits
[04:41] <krosswindz> ok
[04:41] <krosswindz> I tried removing -O2 from KBUILD_CFLAGS still no luck :)
[04:41] <krosswindz> s/)/(/
[04:42] <mythos> yeah, that's the first hit google gives you, if you run in such problems ;-)
[04:42] <mythos> i was lucky and it worked with python2.4...
[04:43] <mythos> so, you should really try a cross-compilation or a native build
[04:44] <krosswindz> I tried a native build
[04:44] <krosswindz> I am seeing segfaults
[04:44] <krosswindz> I already have the 768MB work around
[04:44] <krosswindz> http://pastebin.com/pmSbm4pd
[04:45] <mythos> oh, than your last shot is cross-compilation
[04:46] <mythos> *then
[04:46] <krosswindz> I am trying to avoid it if possible
[04:46] <krosswindz> probably setup a chroot and cross build inside that
[04:47] <krosswindz> wonder how the kernels are built in ports
[04:48] <krosswindz> are they cross built or in cross chroot :p
[04:48] <mythos> if you are idling long enough, one from canonical's arm-team will surely answer your question
[04:49] <mythos> but, i'think, they said that they use panda-boards to compile their packages
[04:50] <krosswindz> that would take forever
[04:50] <krosswindz> compiling on the pandaboard is so slow
[04:50] <mythos> look at the topic...
[04:52] <krosswindz> interesting if they are building everything on pandaboards
[04:58] <mythos> yeah... i have to consider this too...
[04:59] <mythos> if they use native builds for everything, maybe i should that too for my projects
[05:03] <krosswindz> probably some of the devs could answer this
[05:09] <mythos> krosswindz, maybe out of context, but that's what i found in the channel history http://pastebin.com/DEcZvhj9
[05:11] <krosswindz> mythos: guess they are using pandaboards as buildd
[05:12] <mythos> i guess so too
[05:14] <krosswindz> guess I might switch precise and see if that solves my build issues
[05:14] <mythos> go for it =)
[05:20] <krosswindz> will try armhf if it doesnt work I can always revert back to oneiric
[05:20] <krosswindz> should get a couple of more sd cards :p
[05:21] <mythos> if possible, i would use a nfs configuration
[05:22] <mythos> my board is able to load linux via tftp and rootfs via nfs
[05:22] <mythos> but it is a uncommon ti board. i don't have a panda or anything else
[05:23] <mythos> maybe all u-boots can do this...
[05:26] <krosswindz> uboots can do it
[05:26] <krosswindz> the x-loader has an option on the pandaboard to boot using tftp
[05:26] <krosswindz> I havent tried it though
[05:27] <mythos> it is a really neat feature =)
[05:41] <scientes_> where can i get debian-installer images for qemu?
[05:46] <mythos> scientes_, i think, you are looking for this http://wiki.debian.org/ArmEabiHowto
[05:47] <scientes_> no, found what i needed: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Core
[05:47] <scientes_> (if there are arm versions...)
[05:47] <scientes_> i am trying to install ubuntu arm in qemu
[05:47] <scientes_> to test some software that fails in debian arm and x86_64, but works in ubuntu x86_64
[05:48] <scientes_> *debian armel, when compiled from source
[05:48] <mythos> "Installing armel to qemu with d-i" <-- but if you found what you are looking for, that's also awesome =)
[05:48] <scientes_> hmmmm, actually, emulated compiling is probably too slow
[05:49] <scientes_> mythos, yes, but where is the d-i for UBUNTU
[05:49] <scientes_> i.e. alternate installer in ubuntu-land
[05:49] <scientes_> I guess i will need to use a chroot or something on my arm device
[05:49] <mythos> that was not what you asked for ;-)
[05:49] <scientes_> well, this is #ubuntu-arm
[05:49] <infinity> mythos: Sure it is.
[05:49] <scientes_> i thought it was implied
[05:50] <infinity> mythos: debian-installer implies the software, not the distro.
[05:50] <scientes_> infinity, precisely
[05:50] <infinity> scientes_: http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/precise/main/installer-armel/current/images/linaro-vexpress/netboot/
[05:50] <mythos> infinity, hmm... i'm not sure, if i understood that? so debian-installer ist capable to install ubuntu?
[05:51] <infinity> scientes_: Unfortunately, we don't provide vexpress netboot images for armhf yet.  I should put that on my TODO before I forget again.
[05:51] <infinity> mythos: debian-installer is the underlying technology for all our installers.
[05:51] <scientes_> infinity, which one would be faster for emulation?
[05:51] <scientes_> infinity, except liveCD IIRC
[05:52] <infinity> scientes_: ubiquity uses d-i components to do all the "real work".
[05:52] <infinity> scientes_: (ubiquity being the GUI livecd installer)
[05:52] <scientes_> infinity, ahh, now i know
[05:52] <scientes_> i though it just copied the image
[05:52] <infinity> Copying is the easy part. ;)
[05:52] <infinity> (ish)
[05:52] <scientes_> the squashfs image, with cp -a or something
[05:52] <infinity> It copies the squashfs, and then runs all the d-i bits inside the target.
[05:52] <scientes_> instead of installing every deb seperately
[05:53] <mythos> infinity, i don't want to argue against it. so i apologize
[05:53] <scientes_> fedora is differn't, cause their livecd doesn't support anything but ext4
[05:53] <infinity> mythos: I suppose you could argue if you wanted. ;)
[05:53] <scientes_> as a limitation of the way they are doing it IIRC
[05:53] <mythos> infinity, sure... ;-)
[05:54] <scientes_> but on a differn't note: is compiling in qemu going to be horribly slow?
[05:54] <infinity> scientes_: Yes.
[05:54] <scientes_> and will i have better luck with a chroot on a real, but slow, arm device
[05:54] <infinity> scientes_: On the fastest hardware we can get our hands on, qemu barely beats out a pandaboard.
[05:55] <infinity> scientes_: And you probably don't have that hardware.
[05:55] <scientes_> I have a sheevaplug
[05:55] <scientes_> but it has debian wheezy on it
[05:55] <infinity> Oh, well, the sheeva's not exactly speedy either.
[05:56] <krosswindz> infinity: do you have any suggestion for size of the sd card for building things natively on the pandaboard
[05:56] <scientes_> pandaboard at least supports VFP
[05:56] <infinity> Wait, you can't even run Ubuntu on a sheeva, can you?
[05:56] <infinity> Isn't in ARMv5?
[05:56] <scientes_> infinity, so which should I try, chroot on sheeva, or qemu?
[05:56] <scientes_> oh, your right
[05:56] <infinity> s/in/it/
[05:56] <scientes_> only old version
[05:57] <scientes_> it actually ships with some version of ubuntu
[05:57] <scientes_> (don't remember cause i replaced it very quickly with debian)
[05:57] <infinity> krosswindz: I recommend a tiny SD card, a netboot image, and installing to a nice external USB drive.
[05:57] <infinity> krosswindz: Honestly, while running from SD makes for cute demos, it's slow, and it kills SD cards.
[05:57] <krosswindz> infinity: true
[05:57] <scientes_> infinity, ahhh, its bad to run embedded from SD?
[05:58] <infinity> scientes_: Yeah, we used to support v5 for a while, then v6 for a while, but we've been v7-only for ages.
[05:58] <scientes_> with or without VFP?
[05:58] <infinity> v7 implies vfp.
[05:58] <scientes_> so basically armhg
[05:58] <scientes_> *armhf
[05:58] <krosswindz> infinity: if I install on to the usb drive I should be able to use the normal USB port right  and not the OTG
[05:59] <infinity> Out armel port uses softfp calling conventions (but still uses the vfp unit), and armhf uses hardfp calling conventions.
[05:59] <infinity> krosswindz: Yeah, either of the two normal USB ports.
[05:59] <scientes_> why? if armv7 implies VFP?
[05:59] <scientes_> you would get 40% better performance on some hardware (armhf info page)
[06:00] <infinity> scientes_: Hence the armhf port.
[06:00] <krosswindz> nice I think thats what I will do then
[06:00] <krosswindz> I should have an old 80G sata drive lying around some where
[06:00] <scientes_> seems like you should drop the soft float conventions all together
[06:00] <infinity> scientes_: armel uses the softfp ABI because that's just the way things were done for compatibility (and sanity) reasons.  Porting everything to the hardfp ABI was some effort.
[06:01] <infinity> scientes_: The armel port will likely become unsupported this cycle.
[06:01] <scientes_> gotcha
[06:01] <infinity> scientes_: We're trying to move the world to armhf.  I've put a lot of work into this. :P
[06:02] <infinity> krosswindz: http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/precise/main/installer-armhf/current/images/omap4/netboot/
[06:02] <infinity> krosswindz: If you just write out one of those images (boot.img-serial or boot.img-fb) to an SD and boot, you should be able to install to an external drive and save a lot of pain.
[06:02] <krosswindz> infinity: thanks for the link
[06:02] <scientes_> eek, it seems like testing this software will be a PITA
[06:03] <krosswindz> infinity:  thanks
[06:03] <krosswindz> once I am done installing I dont need the sd card to boot or would I need it still
[06:03] <scientes_> maybe i can use the packages i built in debian
[06:03] <infinity> krosswindz: It'll still need an SD card around to flash a bootloader to, so you don't get to go completely SD free (the Panda has no firmware), but reading a bootloader on boot is a heck of a lot better than running your whole OS from the card)
[06:03] <krosswindz> agreed
[06:03] <krosswindz> I can build natively on the pandaboard
[06:04] <scientes_> whats the package for qemu-arm?
[06:04] <scientes_> krosswindz, thx, its opencpn.org
[06:04] <infinity> scientes_: qemu
[06:04] <scientes_> infinity, that just installs qemu-kvm now
[06:04] <mythos> apt-file search qemu-arm
[06:04] <infinity> scientes_: Or, if you want to do binfmt-misc emulation (which is much less annoying), qemu-user-static
[06:05] <infinity> scientes_: Yeah, qemu-kvm should include qemu-system-arm, does it not?
[06:05] <scientes_> don't know i was trying to use virt-manager
[06:05] <infinity> Oh, those may have been split off into qemu-system
[06:06] <infinity> Anyhow, qemu system emulation is almost never what you want, unless you're debugging bootloaders.
[06:06] <infinity> qemu binfmt emulation is much less annoying.
[06:08] <krosswindz> infinity: are there md5sums for the files around some where
[06:09] <infinity> http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/precise/main/installer-armhf/current/images/MD5SUMS
[06:09] <krosswindz> thans
[06:09] <krosswindz> thanks*
[06:09] <scientes_> poof!, my computer randomly rebooted
[06:09] <infinity> scientes_: Welcome back.
[06:09] <scientes_> wierd
[06:09] <infinity> scientes_: So, as I was saying. ;)
[06:09] <scientes_> anyways, no infinity qemu-kvm only has qemu-system-i386 and -x86-64
 apt-file search qemu-arm
[06:10] <infinity> scientes_: Yeah, the others were broken out into qemu-system
[06:10] <scientes_> exactly
[06:10] <scientes_> installing now....
[06:10] <infinity> scientes_: However, you almost certainly don't want an actual qemu-system, unless you're debugging bootloaders.
[06:10] <scientes_> oh ok
[06:10] <scientes_> oh yes, there is multiarch !!!!! :):):)
[06:10] <infinity> scientes_: If you install qemu-user-static, then you can work with ARM binaries as if they were native.
[06:11] <scientes_> I don't see -static, just qemu-user
[06:11] <scientes_> but that is OK
[06:11] <mythos> search for qemu-arm-static
[06:12] <scientes_> krosswindz, should i just use what i built on my sheevaplug in debian wheezy, or do you want to build opencpn ( opencpn.org ) ?
[06:12] <krosswindz> scientes_: I am sorry I guess you there was some miscommunication
[06:12] <infinity> scientes_: qemu-user-static definitely exists (and is the required one in this case), I just installed it.
[06:13] <scientes_> ahh it does, what is the difference?
[06:13] <scientes_> oh, i read the desc, nvm
[06:14] <scientes_> wait, no I don't know why
[06:14] <scientes_> dpkg --add-architecture armel ? now
[06:14] <infinity> scientes_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/829726/ <-- witness the magic.
[06:15] <infinity> scientes_: You could do multiarch too, but that gets messy.  Do you really do your builds in your base system, not in chroots?
[06:16] <scientes_> oh gotcha, that looks much cleaner
[06:18] <scientes_> krosswindz, oh, gotcha
[06:18] <scientes_> OK, all this talk about SD cards----so if I launch an embedded device, it is smart to not use a SD root?
[06:19] <infinity> scientes_: If you're building an actual embedded device, hopefully that assumes you're taking great pains to make sure you're not doing things like logging to filesystems, etc.
[06:20] <infinity> scientes_: If you never write to the card except to update software, SD's a fine choice.
[06:20] <scientes_> ok, so all the problems with SD are going to be the same with NAND flash?
[06:20] <infinity> scientes_: If you run a general purpose OS on it, and call it "embedded" without making sure you neuter that sort of behaviour, you're going to kill a lot of flash.
[06:20] <scientes_> not the FTL?
[06:20] <scientes_> *do any come from the FTL?
[06:21] <infinity> scientes_: Hrm?
[06:21] <infinity> I'm not sure I understand what you're asking.
[06:21] <scientes_> flash translation layer---why SD is a block device, not a mtd
[06:21] <infinity> Yes... But I'm not sure what you're asking about FTLs.
[06:21] <scientes_> well is that the source of SD problems?
[06:22] <scientes_> or are their problems shared with raw NAND flash?
[06:22] <infinity> No, the source of problems is rewriting flash, full stop.
[06:22] <scientes_> ok, that is what i was asking
[06:22] <infinity> And raw flash is usually worse than something with a decent FTL implementation, cause at least decent FTLs (like those found on SSD disks) do proper wear-leveling.
[06:22] <infinity> But, at the end of the day, excessive writes kill flash, even SSD disks.
[06:22] <scientes_> infinity, ubifs does wear-leveling just great
[06:23] <infinity> SD cards tend to die much faster than SSDs, though. :P
[06:23] <infinity> (I've killed a lot of SD cards working on ARM porting...)
[06:23] <scientes_> ahh, very heavy usage
[06:23] <scientes_> would you recommend logging to tmpfs?
[06:23] <infinity> Logging to a tmpfs is reasonable, sure.  Means you don't get permanence, but it's enough for spot disagnostics.
[06:23] <scientes_> is it just the number of writes, or maybe to fast, etc?
[06:24] <infinity> Most embedded projects really don't need logs, though.
[06:24] <infinity> Or, really shouldn't?
[06:24] <mythos> i think, a minimal logging into ram is fine. for the rest a log-server should be used
[06:24] <infinity> Cause once you sell it to a customer, do you really expect them to be mailing you lofs? ;)
[06:24] <infinity> logs*
[06:24] <mythos> yes i do
[06:25] <infinity> scientes_: Speed doesn't really matter, it's just the number of writes, period.  And yeah, logs are the worst culprit right after atime (but sane people always disable atime on flash)
[06:26] <infinity> mythos: If every set top box, phone, and smart TV in my parents' house expected them to be "informed and educated" users who filed bug reports with logs, I suspect they'd just stop buying these computers disguised as appliances.
[06:26] <scientes_> infinity, what about relatime?
[06:26] <scientes_> (mainly for completeness)
[06:26] <mythos> infinity, i have to care about thinclients, so... ;-)
[06:27] <infinity> scientes_: I've never seen the point in relatime.
[06:28] <infinity> scientes_: But it would fall in betweenish, I suppose.  Much less likely to update, but it's still unnecessary writes for a flash device.
[06:28] <scientes_> yeah, go with atime
[06:28] <scientes_> i mean noatime
[06:29] <scientes_> seems like btrfs might be smarter for a flash device---ugh
[06:29] <scientes_> i still hate that ugly FTL
[06:29] <scientes_> and would rather just put ubifs on it
[06:29] <infinity> mythos: Well, I tend to view thinclients more like "really crappy computers" than appliances, in the enviroments where most people use them.  That said, it would be much nicer if they were appliances.
[06:30] <mythos> i don't like them either
[06:30] <mythos> but what shall i say... somehow i have to earn money
[06:30] <infinity> And back in the days when you could buy X terminals off the shelf from IBM and Wyse, and thin clients were much less fat than they are today, they were very appliancy.
[06:31] <mythos> ;___; i'm sorry
[06:33] <infinity> Oddly enough, I think we've almost come full circle.  The full-features "appliance" IBM thin clients I used to work with that did seamless desktop convergence between X11 and WinNT/Metaframe were, if I recall, running StrongARM CPUs.
[06:33] <infinity> Really, really slow ones. :P
[06:33] <scientes_> infinity, do you use udev in your chroots, or bind mount /dev ?
[06:33] <infinity> scientes_: Neither, I just mount devpts.  But if you actually need all the nodes, bindmounting /dev is the sane option, yes.
[06:36] <infinity> Oh, no.  Wikipedia has educated me.  Those were PPC (first gen) and Pentium (second gen).
[06:36] <scientes_> how do i see what breaks a package without installing aptitude?
[06:36] <scientes_> nvm, it just printed it out
[06:39] <mythos> infinity, as far as i know is arm rather new for thinclients.... i know a hp armv3-device, but that's it
[06:40] <scientes_> mythos, even if it is new, it seems like it would be the way to go in the long run, considering the power consumption
[06:40] <infinity> mythos: Yeah, I'm trying to think of why I got confused about that one.  Well, other than the part where it was 15 years ago and I'm old. :P
[06:40] <mythos> *g
[06:41] <mythos> scientes_, yes, you are right
[06:41] <mythos> it is the new hot stuff for citrix and vmware... (lot of work for me... that's why i'm here)
[06:43] <scientes_> infinity, oh your right, multiarch wouldn't work because it doesn't include binaries
[06:44] <scientes_> *executables
[06:44] <infinity> http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-07L8402-Network-Station-1000-/320556566601?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa2a90849
[06:44] <infinity> ^-- Memories.
[06:44] <infinity> And 95 bucks for nostalgia is tempting.
[06:45] <scientes_> is there a multiarch way to have the binaries put in a special place, and then you just set your $PATH approiately
[06:45] <scientes_> and have binfmtmisc with qemu do the rest?\
[06:45] <infinity> scientes_: No.
[06:45] <infinity> scientes_: Multiarch pretty much assumes that you don't want the same binary twice. (which is a fair assumption, generally)
[06:45] <mythos> infinity, i have to support the emulator for this device ;-)
[06:45] <scientes_> that way you could still use all your installed utilies in the not-chroot, like git, etc
[06:45] <infinity> scientes_: Of course, for development, this isn't a big deal, as you usually only need the foreign-arch libraries, not binaries.
[06:46] <infinity> scientes_: Still, chroots are much cleaner.
[06:46] <scientes_> instead of having to have two terminals open for the chroot :)
[06:46] <krosswindz> infinity: is there a US mirror for ports
[06:46] <scientes_> yes, two terminals at once isn't that big of a deal
[06:46] <krosswindz> infinity: netboot gives the otion of only UK
[06:46] <infinity> krosswindz: There may be one or two, but I don't know of any.
[06:46] <krosswindz> option*
[06:46] <krosswindz> infinity: thanks
[06:46] <infinity> krosswindz: The only official ports mirror is ports.ubuntu.com
[06:47] <krosswindz> infinity: ok
[06:47] <infinity> scientes_: Yeah, I guess I don't notice how or why it bugs people, because I've always done all my development in chroots, long before I could also do fancy emulated chroots. :)
[06:48] <infinity> scientes_: My laptop has pretty much nothing installed in the base system, and each bit of software I work on gets a new clean chroot.
[06:48] <infinity> (waste of space, maybe, but it helps maintain sanity)
[06:48] <scientes_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/829746/
[06:49] <infinity> scientes_: sed -i -e 's/main/main universe restricted multiverse/' /etc/apt/sources.list && apt-get update
[06:49] <scientes_> hmm, why don't you use vserver with vhashify then?
[06:49] <scientes_> so that all the duplicate files get hardlinked together in a sane way
[06:49] <scientes_> which reduces both disk AND ram consumption
[06:50] <scientes_> along with security which doesn't exist with chroots
[06:50] <infinity> Security's a non-issue.
[06:50] <infinity> For my use-case.
[06:50] <scientes_> but what about vhashify?
[06:50] <infinity> This is just about not having junk in my base system, and not polluting package builds.
[06:51] <infinity> The de-duping might be neat, but *shrug*... Don't care? ;)
[06:51] <infinity> I build and delete chroots several times a day, it's not like they live long.
[06:51] <scientes_> are you at least running the ram consolidation thingy designed primarily for KVM?
[06:51] <infinity> My workflow comes from more than a decade of buildd maintenance, it's not "sane" to most people, but it works for me.
[06:51] <scientes_> it just scans ram and loops for things that are the same
[06:52] <mythos> sooo... chroot is a "good enough"-solution :o
[06:52] <infinity> RAM consolodation doesn't matter, I'm not running long-running processes in these chroots.
[06:52] <infinity> Build, compile, wipe.
[06:52] <scientes_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/829746/ <----help
[06:52] <infinity> scientes_: sed -i -e 's/main/main universe multiverse/' /etc/apt/sources.list && apt-get update
[06:53] <infinity> ^-- I did.
[06:53] <scientes_> infinity, ahh, yes universe needs to be on, thx
[06:53] <scientes_> no multiverse thxuverymuch however
[06:53] <infinity> ;)
[06:54] <infinity> You shouldn't need restricted either, but you have it on.
[06:54] <infinity> (If you're trying to avoid non-free software sneaking up and biting you in your sleep)
[06:54] <scientes_> that was just the default for the ubuntu core tar.gz
[06:55] <infinity> Yeah.  I should revisit that.
[06:55] <infinity> I picked "main restricted" pretty arbitrarily when I first put core together, just based on the fact that it used to be our default in, like, dapper?
[06:56] <scientes_> what is the default now?
[06:56] <infinity> I sometimes live in the past.
[06:56] <infinity> The default now is, I believe, all 4 components enabled after install.  But I'm not positive of that either, I'd have to install a fresh Ubuntu. :P
[06:56] <scientes_> definitely not
[06:57] <scientes_> it just feels like that the way software-center works by default
[06:57] <infinity> Yeah, maybe.
[06:57] <infinity> Perhaps the default is still "main restricted", or possibly just "main".
[06:57] <infinity> I'm too lazy to dig through code right now.
[06:57] <infinity> Plus, "default" depends on how you install.  Keeping those things in sync is annoying.
[06:58] <scientes_> infinity, I think you should just enable main
[06:58] <scientes_> oh wait, its not just armel
[06:58] <infinity> It's all arches.
[06:58] <scientes_> i was thinking that the hardware that gets restricted put on default is not present with arm
[06:59] <infinity> But, that said, people shouldn't need fancy binary opengl drivers in a minimal chroot.
[06:59] <infinity> And if they do, they can edit sources.list. :P
[06:59] <scientes_> ^^ precisely
[06:59] <scientes_> so just put it main, and be done with it
[06:59] <infinity> Well, I was tossing around the idea of going the other way too.
[06:59] <infinity> Since people constantly say "I tried to install $foo and it's not found, is ubuntu-core crap somehow?"
[07:00] <infinity> Or "is this built on ARM?!"
[07:00] <scientes_> i havn't looked for a while but it seemed like ubuntu was shipping some pretty schetchy stuff in multiverse
[07:00] <infinity> When the answer is, invariably, "enable universe".
[07:00] <scientes_> compared to debian's non-free being pretty reasonable when i looked at it
[07:00] <infinity> scientes_: Well, multiverse is just the non-free component of universe.  So, sure.  I guess that's sketchy on top of sketchy. :)
[07:00] <infinity> But it's not like enabling it forces people to install things from it.
[07:00] <scientes_> infinity, but it was bigger than debian's non-free
[07:01] <krosswindz> infinity: I am installing precise on an usb hard drive, I dont need a separate boot partition on it since that will come from the SD card right?
[07:01] <infinity> And we don't allow dependencies from main to universe or from universe to multiverse, so...
[07:01] <infinity> krosswindz: Right.
[07:01] <scientes_> debian was like: nasa worldwind (open source, but bad license), xtides-data-nonfree (asshole govmnts), and hardware support
[07:01] <infinity> scientes_: Debian has, historically, been kinder to their mirrors with regard to non-free.
[07:02] <infinity> scientes_: If something was widely non-redistributable in, say, several EU countries, or the US, or whatever, they wouldn't carry it.
[07:02] <infinity> scientes_: multiverse, we just say "look, it's hosted in the UK, mirrors don't have to mirror it, if they do, we assume they've read the licenses, HTH, HAND".
[07:02] <scientes_> it drives me nuts how governments, that need good map data in order to do taxes, etc, double charge their citizens
[07:03] <scientes_> the US is like the only sane country in this regard
[07:03] <infinity> scientes_: Yeah, well.  The US and software sanity is a sore topic for Debian too.    Probably a much lower number than  you'd like.
[07:09] <infinity> scientes_: Building natively (or "natively" under emulation) is still the way to go.
[07:09] <scientes_> yeah, i just assumed that I should default to natively
[07:10] <infinity> We've been working on improving the numbers for cross support for specific dependency chains.
[07:10] <scientes_> sure the kernel can do it, but not much else
[07:10] <scientes_> are there any list of what chains work?
[07:10] <infinity> But, personally, I think it's wasted effort.  ARM hardware is getting faster every day and, while I appreciate that people are spoiled and all, if I can build the entire armhf archive in ~15 days, it's not "slow".
[07:11] <scientes_> it supposedly fixes alot of bugs to get cross-compile working
[07:11] <infinity> scientes_: Not sure how far that's gone.  It was mostly being done by Linaro folks, IIRC.  I'll be at Linaro Connect in, like, 2 days though, and I think we have a catch-up session on it. :P
[07:11] <infinity> scientes_: Err, what?  How would cross-compiling fix bugs?
[07:11] <infinity> scientes_: That sounds a whole like like misinformation.
[07:11] <infinity> s/a whole/a whole lot/
[07:11] <scientes_> probably is, only read it once
[07:12] <scientes_> some random comment on lwn or something
[07:12] <infinity> At best, cross-compiling will provide you with binary-identical output, at worst, the cross version will be horribly broken compared to the native.
[07:12] <infinity> I can think of any scenario where it would be better. :)
[07:12] <scientes_> I built the linux kernel with distcc on x86_64 and arm at the same time, and it booted!
[07:12] <infinity> s/can/can't/
[07:13] <infinity> In general, cross should get you binary-identical output these days.  GCC and binutils are much saner than they used to be.
[07:13] <infinity> But.
[07:13] <infinity> There's always a but.
[07:13] <infinity> And the buts never favour the cross environment.
[07:13] <krosswindz> infinity: what about cross chroot using qemu
[07:13] <infinity> krosswindz: That's essentially "native", for the purpose of this discussion.
[07:13] <scientes_> yes
[07:13] <krosswindz> ok
[07:14] <scientes_> cross-compiling is much faster
[07:14] <scientes_> emulation is not
[07:14] <scientes_> but I was definitely impressed with i could use distcc with arm and x86_64 cross at the same time, and boot what came out
[07:15] <scientes_> infinity, oh geeze, you should have put no-install-recommend in the core.....
[07:16] <scientes_> oh wait, i guess it did that
[07:16] <scientes_> just alot of stuff
[07:19] <infinity> scientes_: You can specify it on the command line.
[07:20] <scientes_> i know that, i thought it was installing a bunch of worthless stuff, but i scrolled up, and it listed the recommends sep, which IIRC means it didn't install them
[07:20] <infinity> I type "apt-get --no-install-recommends --purge install $foo" so often that it's muscle memory. :P
[07:20] <infinity> scientes_: No, it lists them even if they're also in the install list.  If you didn't specify it, you got recommends.  It's our default.
[07:21] <scientes_> ahh ok, tons of worthless stuff
[07:21] <scientes_> as i suspenected
[07:21] <scientes_> it was alrady installing when i was like O shi... i forgot
[07:21] <infinity> Heh.  Oh well, not world-ending. :P
[07:22] <infinity> The only place where we actually have no-install-recommends in the apt config is our buildd chroots.
[07:22] <infinity> For obvious reasons.
[07:22] <scientes_> i have added it to apt.conf.d so many times.....
[07:22] <scientes_> I also forgot to use my apt-cacher-ng.....
[07:22] <krosswindz> infinity: I was trying to install using net boot to USB drive
[07:23] <krosswindz> kernel fails to install
[07:23] <krosswindz> any way to check the log over serial console?
[07:23] <infinity> krosswindz: Weird.  It definitely shouldn't.
[07:23] <infinity> krosswindz: It logs to syslog.
[07:23] <infinity> krosswindz: But I'm about to head out.    I forget the exact wording.
[07:25] <scientes_> or just switch to another virtual console with ctrl-shift...(if not on serial console)
[07:25] <krosswindz> ok
[07:26] <krosswindz> let me check that
[07:26] <infinity> Anyhow.  I'm heading out.  Good luck.
[07:26] <scientes_> ctrl-shift-f1, f2
[07:26] <infinity> scientes_: Yeah, he's on serial.
[07:26] <krosswindz> infinity: thanks for the help
[07:27] <infinity> krosswindz: It could just be something as simple as the d-i images being out of sync with the archive or something.  We're all back to work on Monday, if you find actual bugs we should fix. :P
[07:27] <krosswindz> scientes_: I am on serial console so no virtual terminals
[07:27] <infinity> krosswindz: But I suspect GrueMaster can help you tomorrow.  He's often around and bored.
[07:27] <krosswindz> infinity: I will pick on him tomorrow if he is around when I am on
[07:27] <scientes_> krosswindz, you can see i realized that above
[07:28] <krosswindz> scientes_: sorry tryin to multi task  between my laptop and the serial console :p
[07:29] <scientes_> krosswindz, what device is this?
[07:29] <krosswindz> scientes_: pandaboard
[07:30] <krosswindz> scientes_: got it like 2 weeks back
[07:30] <krosswindz> scientes_: had to wait till this week because my serial cable wasnt working
[07:30] <scientes_> exciting!
[07:31] <krosswindz> scientes_: yeah
[07:32] <scientes_> I'm looking at getting a cubox/d2plug---just ordered a mino 720 USB-*only* touchscreen for my sheevaplug
[07:32] <krosswindz> nice
[07:34] <scientes_> you should check out the rasperry pi
[07:34] <scientes_> $25/ $35
[07:35] <krosswindz> scientes_: yeah I have looked at it
[07:35] <scientes_> wont run ubuntu however, only debian armel
[07:35] <krosswindz> scientes_: I wish it had an otg port
[07:35] <scientes_> what is otg?
[07:35] <krosswindz> scientes_: I got the panda because I wanted a USB otg port
[07:35] <krosswindz> USB port that can behave either like usb slave or usb host
[07:36] <scientes_> hmm, reading the wikipedia page is a bit overwhelming
[07:37] <scientes_> the cubox/d2plug has a cdc enabled hdmi port
[07:37] <scientes_> so that the remote of a cdc hdmi TV can control the computer
[07:37] <scientes_> and visa-versa
[07:38] <krosswindz> scientes_: cool
[07:38] <krosswindz> scientes_: you can use it as media player then
[07:39] <scientes_> IIRC they can even power on each-other
[07:41] <gildean> didn't newest hdmi-version include stuff like ethernet in there too?
[07:41] <gildean> the standard that is, not the devices you're talking about
[07:42] <scientes_> display port is suppose to supplant hdmi......
[07:43] <krosswindz> gildean: scientes_ display port doesnt have cec
[07:43] <scientes_> gildean, I really don't know, but i am sure it would be on the wikipedia page
[07:43] <krosswindz> gildean: yeah hdmi 1.4 also has ethernet
[07:43] <scientes_> dang
[07:43] <scientes_> hdmi is everything
[07:44] <scientes_> including evil DRM
[07:44] <scientes_> HEC Data+ (Optional, HDMI 1.4+ with Ethernet)
[07:45] <scientes_> geeze, compressed and decompressed
[07:46] <krosswindz> weird I am getting host unresolved for ports.ubuntu.com when the rest of the packages are downloaded from it
[07:46] <krosswindz> completely weird
[07:46] <scientes_> krosswindz, its downloading those packages in the chroot
[07:46] <scientes_> of /target
[07:46] <krosswindz> scientes_: yeah
[07:46] <scientes_> so its a differn't resolv.conf
[07:47] <krosswindz> hmm
[07:47] <krosswindz> probably the netboot installer is broken
[07:47] <krosswindz> let me try an older version of the netboot installer
[07:48] <scientes_> just the kernel install?
[07:48] <scientes_> well, i don't have that hardware, on the sheevaplug, i have to-date managed the kernel seperately
[07:49] <krosswindz> yeah just the kernel install
[07:49] <scientes_> even though there is (now, not when i first installed) a linux-image-kirkwood package
[07:50] <scientes_> oh wait, its cause I wanted to install to the NAND flash, rather than a SD card
[07:50] <scientes_> how many writes do you get on flash before it peels over?
[07:51] <krosswindz> not sure
[07:51] <krosswindz> typically these days 100K write cycles
[07:52] <krosswindz> not sure
[07:52] <krosswindz> 100K is for flash media
[07:52] <krosswindz> may be nand has significantly less
[07:52] <scientes_> it seems that turning of compression in logrotate really isn't supported
[07:53] <scientes_> i get syslog, syslog.1, syslog.1.gz, syslog.2, syslog2.gz
[07:53] <scientes_> its a mess
[07:53] <scientes_> cause ubifs already has zlib compression so it is pointless
[07:54] <scientes_> especially cause it cause another write, cause it changes the file rather than just rename it
[08:22] <scientes_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/829783/
[08:22] <scientes_> ^^^^gcc error
[08:24] <scientes_> gcc claims it has a bug
[08:24] <scientes_> /home/build/opencpn/plugins/grib_pi/src/grib.cpp:2193:1: internal compiler error: Segmentation fault
[08:29] <krosswindz> is this on native
[08:29] <krosswindz> or cross build
[08:30] <krosswindz> calling it quits for tonight
[08:30] <scientes_> this is on qemu
[08:31] <scientes_> the next line after ctrl-c was "The bug is not reproducible, so it is likely a hardware or OS problem.
[08:31] <scientes_> "
[08:31] <scientes_> so i posted it to #qemu on irc.oftc
[08:31] <scientes_> neways good night
[08:46] <scientes_> hmm, didn't put that out a second time---could just be cause the place where i ctrl-c'ed
[10:33] <morphis> infinity: ping
[11:54] <lilstevie> krosswindz, given NAND is usually what SDCards are made of it should be the same
[17:48] <Person987> Two questions: I'm a noob to pandaboard and I have ubuntu working nicely on an 8gig SD card now.  Is there a way I can duplicate this SD card so I have a backup of the entire "system"
[17:49] <Person987> Second, can I copy it to a USB thumb drive and run off of that?
[17:53] <mythos> Person987, dd if=<sdcard-device> | gzip > backup.gz
[17:54] <mythos> restore the card: zcat backup.gz > <sdcard-device>
 is something like /dev/mmc...
[17:56] <mythos> search for it with fdisk -l
[18:44] <pr_oc> i have been fighting with ubuntu on my gumstix/overo earth for a few days now, so any help is appreciated.  Currently i'm stuck on getting any USB wifi card to work.  I keep running into walls trying to build the manufacturer drivers, and am almost out of space on my 2gb SD card.  what kernel should i be running?
[18:55] <dioxin__> pr_oc: I made progress when I used the 12.04 dev build
[18:56] <pr_oc> how did you build your initial root filesystem?
[18:56] <pr_oc> i've found a bunch of different procedures
[18:56] <pr_oc> chances are i choose poorly, because i'm missing just about every troubleshooting utility.  i'm now running out of space because of all the apt-gets i've done :-)
[18:57] <dioxin__> I'm using a Pandaboard with 8 or 16Gb SD cards
[18:57] <dioxin__> so I'm hitting a space issue
[18:57] <dioxin__> I'm NOT*
[18:58] <pr_oc> yeah just saw those boards
[18:58] <pr_oc> makes me wish i could swap this gumstix setup for that
[18:58] <dioxin__> I'm building my initial fs system using the images off the Pandaboard wiki
[18:59] <dioxin__> if you have a 2nd system, maybe you could download the vmlinuz and initrg.img + the modules directory and just copy them onto the gumtix SD card
[19:00] <dioxin__> (its kinda what I've done to get round an issue I had
[19:00] <pr_oc> i might end up doing that
[19:00] <pr_oc> i'm so close to my goal that i'd hate to start over
[19:10] <carli2> hi
[19:10] <carli2> I have a omap3 beagleboard
[19:10] <carli2> with the 11.10 release, usb mouse and keyboard did not work
[19:10] <carli2> is that issue known?
[21:01] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: are you around?
[21:01] <GrueMaster> maybe...
[21:01] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: infinity asked me to pick your brain
[21:01] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: I am having trouble with the netboot image
[21:01] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: I am trying to install precise on an external usb drive
[21:02] <GrueMaster> Yea, there is a bug, we think in resolfconf
[21:02] <GrueMaster> resolvconf.
[21:02] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: when it goes to install the kernel I get an error at that time only for the kernel unable to resolve
[21:02] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: any work around
[21:03] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: does the oneiric netboot work?
[21:03] <GrueMaster> The only workaround I have is to pull up the install log, and look for the apt-get install  line just before the failure.  It will be a "can't resolv <mirror>" error.
[21:03] <GrueMaster> Then you can chroot target /bin/bash and atp-get install the packages manually.
[21:03] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: yes ports.ubuntu.com
[21:04] <GrueMaster> Oneiric should still work.
[21:04] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: Oneiric would be armel, would there be any way I can upgrade from Oneiric armel to Precise armhf then
[21:04] <GrueMaster> Not that I know of.
[21:05] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: you suggest I use the fb image then and not serial console
[21:05] <GrueMaster> The preinstalled images should still work, but they are more of a challenge to get installed on usb.  It is doable, just difficult.
[21:06] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: netboot would be easier using fb image then
[21:06] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: after I chroot and install the kernel I can continue with the installers next step right?
[21:07] <GrueMaster> That would be irrelevant.  resolvconf isbroken during install.
[21:07] <GrueMaster> yes, but you will still need to bounce back into the chroot to manually pull packages.
[21:07] <krosswindz> ok
[21:08] <GrueMaster> It is doable.  I did it.  It just  takes a while.
[21:08] <krosswindz> does the external usb install use any special uboot image
[21:09] <krosswindz> I was wondering if I could install on the sd card then copy over the root filesystem and modify the boot.script and change it to boot from USB
[21:10] <GrueMaster> That's what I did prior to netboot support.
[21:10] <krosswindz> that should work then
[21:10] <GrueMaster> I "may" have a temporary solution.  Trying it now.  Give me a few minutes.
[21:10] <krosswindz> ok
[21:10] <krosswindz> sweet
[21:10] <krosswindz> I will be around
[21:18] <GrueMaster> YEA!   Success!
[21:18] <GrueMaster> Ok,here's the steps:
[21:18] <krosswindz> aweomse, can I try it :p
[21:19] <GrueMaster> select "execute shell"
[21:19] <GrueMaster> chroot target /bin/bash
[21:19] <krosswindz> ok
[21:19] <GrueMaster> dpkg --force-all --remove resolvconf # ignore errors
[21:20] <GrueMaster> apt-get install resolvconf # ignore errors
[21:20] <GrueMaster> exit back to menu
[21:20] <GrueMaster> run select software (default selection from where it left off).
[21:21] <krosswindz> ok
[21:21] <krosswindz> thats its?
[21:21] <krosswindz> it*
[21:21] <krosswindz> I just fired the netboot again
[21:21] <krosswindz> will report back in a bit
[21:22] <dioxin> With the Ubuntu Server images (11.10) what is the effect of the various Live CD options from the install options?
[21:23] <GrueMaster> dioxin: ???
[21:23] <GrueMaster> We only have preinstalled images for arm.
[21:24] <dioxin> GrueMaster: I've done the 11.10 server image, and I'm at the "Choose software to install" stage
[21:24] <dioxin> I get options for different live CD's
[21:24] <GrueMaster> Oh, that.  I don't know what the live cd selections are.
[21:25] <dioxin> ok, well here goes nothing ;)
[21:26] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: does precise also need the 72 MiB fat32 partition that is not mounted but has the boot flag on?
[21:27] <GrueMaster> That is on SD, right?  That is where u-boot boots from.  Keep it.
[21:27] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: on the USB drive
[21:28] <GrueMaster> Interesting.  I've never seen that on Panda.
[21:28] <GrueMaster> But then I use a preseed.
[21:29] <krosswindz> dioxin: I remember seeing that as well it is before the actual install starts
[21:29] <krosswindz> dioxin: I think I chose the first option which was to install a base system I dont remember
[21:30] <dioxin> previously I've chosen Base-Server-Install and OpenSSH and its worked
[21:30] <dioxin> I'm now trying lubuntu live cd option as well
[21:33] <krosswindz> I am not sure what it does
[21:34] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: the size of fat32 partition on SD card is 32M, I think thats what is the size in netboot image
[21:34] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: should I resize it once the install is done?
[21:34] <GrueMaster> Nah, that sould be enough.
[21:35] <GrueMaster> It only needs to hold MLO, u-boot.bin, and backups of uImage, uInitrd, and boot.scr
[21:35] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: thanks
[21:36] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: its installing the base system now, my net connection is slow atm because its sunday and everyone in my apt complex is at home
[21:37] <GrueMaster> Heh.  Understand.
[21:37] <GrueMaster> That's why I have my own mirror at home.
[21:41] <dioxin> how big is the repository? it is feasible to mirror it at home?
[21:42] <GrueMaster> Not too big if you only pull armhf.  I have all of arm (no sources) and it is ~350G (I think, haven'tchecked my server lately).
[21:43] <GrueMaster> That is all of arm (armel, armhf) and also contains all pools (main, restricted, multiverse, universe).
[21:43] <dioxin> including 10.10 through to 12.04?
[21:45] <GrueMaster> Yes.  Actually, it appears to be 255G on my mirror.
[21:45] <GrueMaster> (I also have all images since UDS - that's why I thought it was more).
[21:46] <dioxin> I've got a spare ATOM box with a 1 TB drive attached... hmmm ;)
[21:46] <dioxin> (and luckily I've a 100 meg internet connection ;)
[21:47] <dioxin> does Ubuntu Support Beagle Bone as well?
[21:47] <GrueMaster> I use ubumirror to do the mirroring.  Ubuports (the script that mirrors ports.ubuntu.com) runs every 2 hours.
[21:47] <GrueMaster> I think so.  I don't have one to try.
[21:47] <dioxin> I get one Tuesday I think
[21:48] <GrueMaster> cool.
[21:49] <GrueMaster> If it boots the same as the beagexm, it will just work.
[21:49] <krosswindz> moment of truth
[21:50] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: its redoing the basesystem install
[21:50] <dioxin> I might have to pick your brains in a couple of days on how to do the repo mirror
[21:50] <GrueMaster> krosswindz: that is normal.
[21:50] <krosswindz> dioxin: check apt-mirror
[21:50] <GrueMaster> dioxin: I'll pastebin my ubumirror.conf when you are ready.
[21:51] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: awesome its asking me to chose the kernel this time
[21:51] <dioxin> I need to reinstall the ATOM as well along with recieve the board and other toys :D
[21:51] <krosswindz> i select linux-omap4
[21:51] <GrueMaster> krosswindz: apt-mirror doesn't get the udebs and other stuff needed for netboot.
[21:51] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: aah ok
[21:51] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: It installed the kernel, thanks for the help :p
[21:51] <GrueMaster> krosswindz: The kernel questions are a good sign.
[21:52] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: its configuring apt now
[21:52] <dioxin> GrueMaster: is it possible to build the entire ubuntu from source?
[21:52] <GrueMaster> excellent
[21:52] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: does precise kernel still have the 1G issue where compiler segfaults?
[21:52] <GrueMaster> yes, but it takes a long time.
[21:53] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: I want to build stuff natively
[21:53] <GrueMaster> krosswindz: No, that was fixed.
[21:54] <dioxin> is compiling i/o or computation intensive?
[21:54] <GrueMaster> We are in the process of rebuilding the pool.  I think it will take a week or two with a pool of pandas.
[21:54] <krosswindz> dioxin: both
[21:54] <GrueMaster> dioxin: Both.  The Panda is the fastest we currently have, but IO is slow.
[21:55] <dioxin> how many Panda in the pool?
[21:55] <GrueMaster> We hope to get some 4 core arm servers soon, but they probably won't be building until well into 12.10.
[21:55] <GrueMaster> Not sure.  16 I think.
[21:56] <GrueMaster> It takes something like 12 hours to build libreOffice.
[21:58] <krosswindz> wow on the pool of pandas or just one?
[21:58] <krosswindz> quad core arms are they omaps or tegra?
[21:58] <GrueMaster> Just one.   We don't use distcc
[21:59] <GrueMaster> Tegra 3 is 5 core, but they are limited availability.
[21:59] <GrueMaster> Not sure what omap5 will be or when it comes out.
[21:59] <GrueMaster> Calxeda is the exiting one. Check out their announcement.
[22:00] <krosswindz> I read omap5 would be quad core
[22:00] <krosswindz> with like 2GHz core
[22:00] <GrueMaster> that will be cool.
[22:01] <krosswindz> let me try to find that article
[22:02] <krosswindz> http://www.fudzilla.com/processors/item/21777-omap-5-is-quad-core-28nm-in-2012
[22:03] <krosswindz> cortex a15
[22:03] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: installation complete rebooting now
[22:03] <GrueMaster> Double cool.  A15 will support kvm.
[22:03] <GrueMaster> krosswindz: Excellent!
[22:04] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: I have login prompt over serial console
[22:04] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: thanks a lot for your help
[22:05] <GrueMaster> glad I could help.  Hopefully this willbe fixed next week.
[22:06] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: I can for now get rid of all the archive.ubuntu.com entries from sources.list right
[22:06] <krosswindz> and security.ubuntu.com as well?
[22:06] <GrueMaster> Yes, unless you want to install a source package.
[22:07] <krosswindz> I will install linux source for recompiling it
[22:07] <GrueMaster> security.ubuntu.com is a bug.  All updates are on ports.ubuntu.com
[22:07] <krosswindz> ok
[22:08] <GrueMaster> I have to run.  Need to get ready for superbowl.
[23:11] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: you around?
[23:11] <krosswindz> aah now I see you are off to watch superbowl


[18:34] <ricotz> mamarley, I assume you are already playing with 370.28?
[18:46] <mamarley> ricotz: Nope, I wasn't even aware that it existed, but I will package it shortly.
[18:47] <ricotz> mamarley, no problem, I started to look at in the meantime
[18:47] <mamarley> ricotz: Does that mean I shouldn't do anything with it?
[18:48] <ricotz> mamarley, I will update the driver package, if you want to take a look at nvidia-settings?
[18:48] <mamarley> Sure
[18:49] <ricotz> ah 367.44-0ubuntu2 needs to be merged too
[18:50] <mamarley> Yeah, tseliot mentioned that a few days ago but it hadn't been uploaded yet.
[18:50] <ricotz> yeah seems to be lost somewhere on the way
[19:52] <soee_> NVIDIA 370.28 Linux Driver Has Pascal Overclocking, PRIME Sync, PixelShiftMode
[19:54] <mamarley> soee_: Yep, ricotz is working on it.
[19:54] <soee_> \o/
[21:03] <ricotz> mamarley, soee_, launchpad is taking quite some time for publishing :(
[21:04] <mamarley> Yeah, that happens a lot recently.
[21:09]  * mamarley wonders if anyone has tested the 370 series on a 1000-series card yet.
[21:11] <Sarvatt> mobile 1080 was fine with 370.23
[21:11] <mamarley> Cool :)


[01:07] <bluesabre> Unit193, at the very least, it works live
[01:09] <bluesabre> (pretty sure it works installed too)
[01:09] <bluesabre> or do you have an alternate ~/Templates?
[01:17] <Unit193> Shouldn't.
[01:21] <Unit193> It worked fine on another, hmm.
[01:21] <Unit193> I'll check the other-other later.
[01:26] <bluesabre> :D
[01:26] <bluesabre> worked on my vm install, so I'm not entirely crazy
[01:27] <bluesabre> possible that it just needs to run on a delay in case xdg-user-dirs hasn't done it's job yet
[01:27] <knome> crrrrraaaazyy
[01:27] <bluesabre> hi knome
[01:27] <knome> hullo bluesabre
[01:27] <Unit193> knome: Yeah we know you are.
[01:27] <knome> indeed (:
[01:28] <bluesabre> b1 tomorrow, so time to start reminding you about this cycle's wallpaper refresh :)
[01:28] <knome> yes
[01:28] <knome> i reminded myself about it some time ago
[01:28] <bluesabre> yay
[01:28] <knome> technically, i need to finish it next week
[01:28] <bluesabre> right
[01:28] <knome> because the week after that will be busy
[01:28] <knome> (for me)
[01:28] <bluesabre> busy knome
[01:29] <knome> hmm.
[01:29] <knome> is there any way to change the starting day of the week on the orage popup without installing orage?
[01:29] <bluesabre> figured that would be some localization setting
[01:29] <bluesabre> no idea though
[01:30] <knome> i don't think so
[01:30] <knome> i have the same locale as before the reinstall, and now the starting day is sunday
[01:30] <knome> which freaks me off
[01:32] <knome> doesn't seem to be an orage option either
[01:32] <bluesabre> guessing you've never configured it before (or since 2011), might be a bug somewhere down the line
[01:32] <knome> yeah, not since 2011
[01:39] <bluesabre> knome, looks like LC_TIME is the var you want
[01:40] <knome> yes, but that's already set at en_GB.UTF-8, which gave me the right result before
[01:40] <bluesabre> and thats what google turned up for me
[01:40] <bluesabre> lol
[01:41] <bluesabre> knome, http://askubuntu.com/a/214524 maybe?
[01:41] <knome> yeah, but the locale file already says first_weekday 2
[01:41] <knome> (:
[01:42] <bluesabre> wellllllllllllllp
[01:42] <knome> indeed
[01:42] <bluesabre> maybe try asking in #xubuntu
[01:42] <bluesabre> :D
[01:42] <knome> this is the fun you sign up when reinstalling!
[01:42] <knome> +for
[01:43] <knome> which is why i didn't do it for five years
[01:43] <knome> and this isn't the first thing which is like "well... that didn't work OOTB, let me quickly fix"
[01:43] <knome> then 30 minutes later "ergghh" and sweatting ;)
[01:45] <bluesabre> spicy food does that to you
[01:45] <knome> nope.
[01:45] <knome> that's 15 minutes later
[01:45] <knome> ;)
[02:49] <Unit193> bluesabre: Run  lightdm-gtk-greeter --help  tell me what you see?
[02:52] <Unit193> bluesabre: Saw that when looking for something like lightdm's --show-config
[02:56] <bluesabre> Unit193, 01_ubuntu, 30_xubuntu, 01_ubuntu, 30_xubuntu, etc/...
[02:57] <Unit193> Isn't that odd?
[03:33] <bluesabre> yes, I think so
[03:33] <bluesabre> but it works... so back under the rug it goes for now :D
[03:36] <Unit193> Hah.  But, look at  lightdm --show-config  !
[03:37] <bluesabre> indeed, not entirely sure what it all means, but duplication there means the bug might just lie in lightdm
[03:37] <bluesabre> or maybe thats a new standard... check everything twice to be sure
[03:39] <Unit193> Nono, I mean that's a awesome switch, lightdm-gtk-greeter needs it!
[03:45] <bluesabre> ah, gotcha
[03:46] <bluesabre> feel free to file a feature request bug for that
[03:47] <Unit193> Yeeeah. :/
[04:19] <Unit193> bluesabre: Be aware of https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/network-manager/+git/network-manager/+merge/318031 - LP 997200
[04:21] <Unit193> FWIW: -1
[05:22] <Unit193> bluesabre: OK, so looks like Templates got rm'd, thus when the xdg script ran it set XDG_TEMPLATES_DIR="$HOME/" so that's less than ideal...
[10:00] <bluesabre> Unit193, indeed, that could be improved
[10:02] <bluesabre> Unit193, that connectivity-check thing doesn't sound *bad*, or is that something that currently works by default and won't work after the change?
[10:03] <Unit193> bluesabre: Eh, but nothing wrong with your script, just unexpected.  The check isn't enabled yet, will be an additional package.
[10:08] <bluesabre> Unit193, yeah, but dumping files to $HOME is something a jerk developer would do
[10:09] <Unit193> Yeah, I was trying to remove all the things from ~ today.
[12:54] <bluesabre> Unit193, flocculant, I'll file the FFe for notifyd tonight, works well, and would be a cool feature to have in the release
[12:55] <bluesabre> menulibre update should be coming down the pipe this weekend as well
[13:06] <ali1234> i feel like building something
[13:06] <ali1234> whoops wrong channel :)
[17:50] <flocculant> knome: you planning on any beta announcement - is anyone else?
[20:16] <knome> flocculant, not planning, but i can help with one
[20:47] <flocculant> knome: I've got enough to sort out, if no-one else does anything we can do without imo
[20:48] <flocculant> it's only a snapshot as we know
[20:51] <knome> yeah, i'm fine with that as well
[20:51] <flocculant> :)
[20:51] <flocculant> release note and download will be on the main release announcement
[20:52] <knome> you mean not wiki?
[20:54] <flocculant> knome: umm - I mean there is a release note - that'll get on the Ubuntu announcement - as will the b1 download url
[20:54] <knome> right :)
[20:54] <knome> good good
[20:56] <flocculant> well - when I mean there's a release note - it's being worked on :D
[20:56] <flocculant> trying to remember what new stuffs it has ...
[21:00] <flocculant> as opposed to what I've got here :)
[21:38] <knome> so... some #xubuntu log analysis
[21:38] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/.loganalysis/
[21:39] <flocculant> w is from webchat?
[21:39] <knome> yep
[21:39] <knome> i installer, o online docs, d documentation (shipped), last one is unknown, so not a known letter, or an old style number
[21:39] <knome> though
[21:39] <knome> these bars don't feel to be right...
[21:40] <knome> that installer bar for july isn't 1/181...
[21:40] <knome> hmm yeah, what are those numbers there anyway
[21:41] <knome> hmmh.
[21:42] <knome> must be missing something essential
[21:43] <knome> oh
[21:43]  * knome facepalms
[21:44] <knome> theeeeeeere we go.
[21:44] <knome> much better
[21:45] <flocculant> :)
[21:47] <flocculant> bluesabre: very basically done a release note - please fiddle as you see fit
[21:47] <flocculant> off now
[21:50] <knome> ok, so for anybody interested, whole 2015 and some months from 2014 are added
[21:51] <Unit193> Where's the installer place them?
[21:51] <knome> hm?
[21:53] <knome> you mean the installer before we had xubuntuNNi? unknown
[21:54] <knome> online docs seem to be stable, installer and shipped documentation in rise, which is nice
[21:56] <Unit193> Meant in #xubuntu or #xubuntu-offtopic, it was dicussed but I don't remember.
[21:56] <knome> right
[21:56] <knome> this is the logs for #xubuntu
[21:57] <knome> but...
[21:57] <knome> i don't remember where we point people nowadays
[21:57] <knome> i'd guess #xubuntu by the numbers :P
[21:59] <knome> i also checked if there were many potential duplicates, but that was like <5 than a month, so not considered here
[21:59] <knome> (method: see if the same nick joins two or more times a row)