[00:07] <infinity> wgrant: Sounds reasonable, assuming "arbitrary" is a predictable precedence selection.
[00:07] <infinity> As much as I want random arch-indep builds, I'm not sure today is the day. ;)
[00:08] <wgrant> infinity: Well, I don't really have much to go on there.
[00:09] <wgrant> The Architecture field could be specified as negative wildcards, for example.
[00:09] <wgrant> Unless I use like DAS.id or something arbitrary but stable.
[00:10] <infinity> wgrant: Well, you know which builds you're going to create.
[00:10] <wgrant> infinity: Right, but what defines the order of the DASes?
[00:10] <infinity> wgrant: So, a precedence list of "if I'm not creating it, try the next instead" would work, with an order of amd64 > i386 > misc
[00:11] <infinity> Not sure the misc matters. :P
[00:11] <infinity> Just that i386 should be preferred over randomly picking the armhf build.
[00:11] <infinity> If for no other reason than CPU time.
[00:11] <wgrant> It's probably sufficiently rare that it doesn't really matter. I don't reallllly want to hardcode i386.
[00:12] <wgrant> Though I guess this is technically temporary, since Debian might eventually define the affinity field.
[00:12] <infinity> wgrant: This should be temporary.  But you could also just pull the arches in order from the DB, and try/pass until you hit a match.
[00:12] <infinity> wgrant: Since, I think, x86 comes first by PK ordering.
[00:12] <infinity> Though powerpc is right up there somewhere.
[00:13] <wgrant> Heh, no
[00:13] <wgrant> Oh, i386 is the first Processor.
[00:13] <wgrant> That might work
[00:13] <wgrant> But arm64 is the first DAS atm.
[00:19] <infinity> wgrant: Yeah, DAS creation is probably close to random, I meant the Processor table, which is static.
[00:19] <infinity> rsalveti: So, it sounds like, from the above, William will have a solution for you "i386 all" issue soon, and you can just ignore it. :P
[00:20] <infinity> rsalveti: A fresh upload to vivid after it's fixed will be needed to make it DTRT, but that's it.
[00:21] <wgrant> Yep
[00:21] <rsalveti> awesome :-)
[00:22]  * infinity needs to run out shopping, back soon.
[00:56] <skellat> Is there no backports suite for utopic?  Nothing is showing up for it on packages.ubuntu.com though rmadison says there is stuff there.
[01:02] <skellat> For example, rmadison pumpa and http://packages.ubuntu.com/pumpa show differing output
[02:19] <infinity> skellat: packages.u.c isn't authoritative, what rmadison is telling you is correct.
[03:19] <wgrant> rmadison also isn't authoritative :)
[03:19] <wgrant> Though usually correct.
[03:21] <skellat> What's the most authoritative answer then?
[03:22] <wgrant> skellat: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pumpa
[03:23] <skellat> wgrant: Thank you
[04:45] <infinity> wgrant: I's argue that from a "what users see" perspective, rmadison is more authoritative than LP. :P
[04:45] <infinity> wgrant: Since LP is telling you what SHOULD be on disk, rmadison is telling you what IS.
[04:45] <infinity> (And we really hope the two match)
[04:46] <wgrant> Perhaps.
[04:46] <wgrant> Also rmadison is seriously slow.
[04:46] <wgrant> When LP is faster than something else, the something else has a serious problem :P
[04:46] <infinity> Yeah, I keep wondering if I have the round tuits to fix that.
[04:46] <infinity> There's no reason rmadison needs to be slow.
[04:46] <infinity> It just is.
[04:46] <wgrant> Indeed.
[04:47]  * skellat is just learning how to use the tools...the hard way...
[04:48] <infinity> The hard way is often the right way.
[05:15] <wgrant> Right, new arch-indep logic works, yay.
[05:16] <wgrant> Implementing an arch-indep affinity field should now be roughly two lines of code, too.
[05:23] <stgraber> infinity: dump a couple of ssds into snakefruit => problem solved?
[05:24] <stgraber> or spend a while trying to get index lookups to not be nearly as slow, but ssds for the indices seems easier :)
[05:26] <infinity> stgraber: apt-cache implies that index lookups don't have to be slow.  madison-lite could just use a bit more smart.
[05:28] <wgrant> infinity: https://code.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/bug-1350208/+merge/240808 if you care/understand
[05:32] <infinity> + # XXX wgrant 2014-11-06: The fact that production's
[05:32] <infinity> 156	+ # Processor 1 is i386, a good arch-indep candidate, is a
[05:32] <infinity> 157	+ # total coincidence and this isn't a hack. I promise.
[05:32] <infinity> Heh.
[09:23] <tjaalton> please drop xserver-xorg-video-intel 2:2.99.910-0ubuntu1.3 from the upload queue, I'll add one critical patch to it
[09:24] <tjaalton> unrelated to the ones on it now, but critical for broadwell
[10:05] <wgrant> Currently deploying the complete rewrite of the Soyuz build creation logic. If anything seems weird, it probably is, so let me know.
[15:43] <rbasak> bdmurray: if you're wearing your SRU team hat today, please can I poke you about reviewing juju-core in the Trusty queue? I'd like to get it pushed through soon if we can, so that upstream can QA on Ubuntu's proposed binary before they release upstream.
[15:46] <bdmurray> rbasak: I'll be putting that hat on in a bit after my morning meetings.
[15:46] <rbasak> OK, thanks!
[18:34] <balloons> stgraber, someone; can you make sure Upgrade Ubuntu Gnome amd64 and Upgrade Ubuntu Gnome i386 get added to the script for weekly upgrade builds?
[18:35] <stgraber> let me check what that script does exactly, I somehow doubt it contains an hardcoded list
[18:35] <balloons> hehe.. yea, probably just grabs the family
[18:35] <balloons> in which case it's all set
[18:36] <stgraber> so it iterates through the ones that are already on the daily milestone and bump them all
[18:36] <stgraber> so if you do the first entry by hand, it'll pick it up from there
[18:36] <balloons> yep, done.. ty stgraber
[19:05] <bdmurray> How do you add an extra space there? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/189391989/xserver-xorg-video-intel_2%3A2.99.910-0ubuntu1.2_2%3A2.99.910-0ubuntu1.3.diff.gz
[19:22] <tjaalton> bdmurray: is the newer upload of -intel for trusty still on the queue?
[19:24] <tjaalton> same version number..
[19:24] <bdmurray> tjaalton: yes, its still there
[19:24] <tjaalton> not for too long I hope ;)
[19:29] <bdmurray> cjwatson: Could you do the -proposed cleanup?
[20:27] <infinity> bdmurray: I've got that (proposed cleanup).
[20:37] <ogra_> i disabled system-image auto-importing for a bit to coordinate a device tarball landing with a silo
[20:57] <bdmurray> infinity: okay, thanks
[21:24] <bdmurray> tjaalton: the -intel upload has a reference to a patch not included in it
[21:24] <bdmurray> +  * Prevent crash when using SNA with fglrx.
[21:24] <bdmurray> +    - disable-outputs-when-slaved.patch
[21:27] <tjaalton> bdmurray: seems to me that it's there..
[21:28] <bdmurray> I don't see it in the series file
[21:29] <tjaalton> +disable-outputs-when-slaved.patch
[21:29] <ogra_> system-image auto-importer back on
[21:30] <tjaalton> bdmurray: there were quite a few patches added after that
[21:31] <bdmurray> tjaalton: I'm looking at this diff - https://launchpadlibrarian.net/189391989/xserver-xorg-video-intel_2%3A2.99.910-0ubuntu1.2_2%3A2.99.910-0ubuntu1.3.diff.gz
[21:32] <tjaalton> well boo then, it was added in 1.2
[21:33] <tjaalton> bad mlankhorst :)
[21:34] <tjaalton> or actually it's just the changelog entry that's confusing and duplicat
[21:34] <tjaalton> e
[21:36] <tjaalton> but I can fix that
[21:36] <tjaalton> and upload again
[21:36] <bdmurray> tjaalton: that'd be great, then I'll get it approved today
[21:39] <tjaalton> done
[21:41] <brainwash> please move thunar from utopic-proposed to -updates
[21:41] <brainwash> bug 1382977
[21:41] <ubot2> bug 1382977 in thunar (Ubuntu Utopic) "[SRU] Thunar open default not respecting mimetype" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1382977
[21:55] <bdmurray> brainwash: we wait for packages to live in -proposed for 7 days
[21:56] <brainwash> bdmurray: even if several people confirmed that the package has fixed the issue? ok then I guess
[21:58] <bdmurray> brainwash: 7 days is the policy https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/#Procedure
[21:59] <bdmurray> brainwash: we can waive that sometimes is the bug critical?
[22:01] <brainwash> bdmurray: no, it cannot be labeled as critical or even high. we are just trying to get the fix out asap, because it's the no.1 issue in xubuntu 14.10
[22:02] <brainwash> but the 7 days aging time makes sense, so we'll wait some more days
[22:03] <bdmurray> brainwash: feel free to ping an SRU team member on the 11th then (I'll be out that day)
[22:03] <brainwash> I will, thanks :)
[22:03] <infinity> Or just assume that we'll get to it.
[22:03] <infinity> If the bugs are all verified.
[22:53] <wgrant> infinity: Nothing seemed weird build-wise overnight?
[22:55] <infinity> wgrant: Should it have?  I was indisposed.
[22:57] <wgrant> infinity: Well, a lot of very crufty evolved code was rewritten, so it's not inconceivable that something might be broken.
[22:57] <wgrant> But everything looks fine, which is nice.
[22:58] <wgrant> Which means it should be safe to run add-missing-builds, but I might test it on dogfood first.
[22:58] <wgrant> Also rsalveti's android should build in vivid now.
[22:58] <rsalveti> great
[22:59] <infinity> rsalveti: That'll need a no-change upload to prompt it to create the build records in a sensible fashion.


[02:08] <HazRPG> I've got an interesting question for you guys; about encryption.
[02:08] <HazRPG> I've been looking at this: http://shop.kernelconcepts.de/product_info.php?products_id=119
[02:08] <HazRPG> which is essentially a SIM card type reader
[02:09] <HazRPG> supposedly for encryption
[02:09] <HazRPG> and I recall MartijnVdS linking me to this: http://www.g10code.com/p-card.html
[02:10] <HazRPG> I was wondering, how would these two together work to store and retrieve PGP keys
[02:10] <HazRPG> would I have to write my own set of applications, or can I use existing ones... and if so which existing ones would word
[03:45] <hazrpg-irssi> thought i'd see what the fuss with irssi was about :P
[03:50] <ali1234> you can run it in screen
[03:50] <ali1234> that's the only reason to use it
[03:51] <hazrpg-irssi> hmm
[03:51] <hazrpg-irssi> I have installed screen too, but unsure how to use it
[03:51] <ali1234> "screen"
[03:52] <ali1234> (run some program)
[03:52] <ali1234> ctrl-a d
[03:52] <ali1234> screen -r
[03:52] <hazrpg-irssi> so for example screen irssi
[03:53] <ali1234> you don't need to supply arguments, it gives you a shell
[03:53] <hazrpg-irssi> ah
[03:58] <hazrpg-test> hmm this is rather cool
[03:58] <HazRPG> hi hazrpg-test
[03:59] <hazrpg-test> wow, session is kept in tack, that is pretty wicked :D
[03:59] <hazrpg-test> I'm guessing there's a way to name screens
[04:03] <HazRPG> Lunchie: oh hey dude :D
[04:03] <HazRPG> Lunchie: your up late dude
[04:04] <Lunchie> HazRpg heya dude
[04:05] <Lunchie> was working tilll 11
[04:05] <HazRPG> ah
[04:05] <Lunchie> and was on the phone to rach till 3 lol
[04:05] <HazRPG> ah lol :P
[04:06] <HazRPG> been looking into OpenPGP and storing the keys onto either a SIM or chip-embedded card
[04:06] <HazRPG> these are the cards http://www.g10code.com/p-card.html
[04:07] <HazRPG> and if your pc/laptop doesn't have a reader you can use this for the SIM version: http://shop.kernelconcepts.de/product_info.php?cPath=1_26&products_id=119
[04:09] <HazRPG> apparently it works with the GnuPG tools (which is what the keyring in ubuntu uses if I recall)
[04:14] <HazRPG> Lunchie: I just cracked open my Duff beer ;)
[04:15] <HazRPG> Lunchie: what you up to anyways?
[04:50] <HazRPG> man I love hak5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vaac19G2p8A&t=1m18s
[05:54] <lazarus_>  i set up a virtual network ok
 now to implement it tomorrow
[06:23] <phonex01> how can i open .vce file used by " Visual Certexam" in ubuntu without using wine to install the Visual certexam ?
[07:25] <AlanBell> morning all o/
[07:28] <MartijnVdS> \o
[07:30]  * AlanBell has beerex tickets
[07:31] <AlanBell> for popey and czajkowski and TheOpenSourcerer and others
[07:51] <popey> yay AlanBell
[08:08] <AlanBell> the alarm didn't go off at 3:30 as it was supposed to (set to weekdays only)
[08:08] <AlanBell> woke up at 06:00, got down there at 06:05
[08:09] <AlanBell> the only thing they were sold out of by the time I got in was saturday lunchtime
[08:15] <popey> wow, lucky!
[08:16] <AlanBell> so Friday evening for Beer + Curry \o/
[08:23] <hcfd> AlanBell, you get up at 3.30am on weekdays?
[08:23] <HazRPG> is this for next year?
[08:25] <AlanBell> hcfd: nope! I just changed the time of the alarm, but forgot the day scope thing
[08:25] <AlanBell> HazRPG: this year, April 15th
[08:26] <hcfd> AlanBell, ohh! I thought for a moment that you'd cottoned onto an optimal sleep routine the rest of us were missing out on :)
[08:26] <HazRPG> AlanBell: thought beerex was an annual thing, hasn't this years already been on the 4/6th ?
[08:26] <AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farnham_Beer_Exhibition
[08:28] <HazRPG> AlanBell: ah, I thought you meant this: http://www.beerex.co.uk/
[08:47] <popey> Looking forward to it!
[08:51] <alexcockell> Do you guys try to turn up for the CAMRA beer fest in Reading?
[08:55] <popey> I havent ever
[09:01] <HazRPG> wow, this is immense (if your interesting in time & space): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OFThORmR-s&feature=channel
[09:26] <AlanBell> morning TheOpenSourcerer
[09:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning AlanBell
[09:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> I see you got the tickets.
[09:26] <AlanBell> yup
[09:27] <AlanBell> a successful recovery from an alarm clock fail
[09:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> Big queue?
[09:27] <AlanBell> over the bridge and halfway to the road
[09:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> What time did you get there?
[09:28] <AlanBell> 06:05 ish
[09:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> Blimey.
[09:28] <AlanBell> from waking up at 06:00 ish
[09:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[09:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> that was quite late.
[09:28] <AlanBell> yes!
[09:28] <AlanBell> they had only sold out of saturday lunch by the time I got to the desk
[09:29] <alexcockell> People ACTUALLY wake up or more.. get up at 6 on SUNDAYS?
[09:29] <AlanBell> I was intending to be up at 04:00
[09:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> alexcockell: I didn't.
[09:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> In fact I have been up for about 15mins
[09:29] <alexcockell> I may have come round and whipped the APAP mask off around that time..
[09:29] <AlanBell> I was going to take a frying pan, burner and sausages to cook in the queue
[09:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12505344
[09:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> "It was all a bit worrying.  At one point I was doubled over in pain  and thinking about ringing the hospital."
[09:56] <daubers> Morning
[09:57] <dve> If I create a file in a symlink'ed folder, does that file get created in the target folder only?
[10:07] <daubers> \o/ New bluetooth kit in car means I can listen to the new UUPC while driving
[10:10] <daubers> Is there anyway to edit an icon for an app in the Unity task bar thing?
[10:15] <czajkowski> AlanBell: awwww you rock, thought it was boys only :p
[10:17] <AlanBell> czajkowski: yeah, I think I may have missunderstood the "boys night out" concept slightly
[10:18] <AlanBell> there is a whole room of cider and perry barrels
[10:18] <czajkowski> :D
[10:18] <czajkowski> shall lock myself away!
[10:19] <czajkowski> and it's on a Friday ?
[10:19] <AlanBell> yes
[10:37] <iulian> Morning.
[11:28] <bigcalm> Morning peeps
[11:28] <bigcalm> Anybody with experience of editing PDFs in linux?
[11:28] <bigcalm> Editing existing PDFs that is
[11:29] <directhex> bigcalm, editing how far?
[11:29] <bigcalm> directhex: deleting and editing existing text
[11:34] <HazRPG> wow, found this link on my blog that someone posted... Stephen Fry saying happy birthday to GNU (unsure of date): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dcxtEKShXA
[11:34] <dutchie> oh no, not that again
[11:37] <directhex> bigcalm, that's nontrivial
[11:38] <HazRPG> dutchie: heh, I've not see it before
[11:38] <bigcalm> If I can find Acrobat Writer at home, I'll use that
[11:38] <bigcalm> Currently visiting my parents and my dad needs to edit things
[11:39] <czajkowski> bigcalm: the ide of a pdf is to stop folks editing things:)
[11:39] <bigcalm> czajkowski: one of, not completely though :)
[11:40] <czajkowski> it's the reson why in my 2nd last job docs were sent in pdf to stop people adding stuff to them
[11:40] <czajkowski> as they found when .docs were sent if they checked the history in them , small minor edits were made.
[11:41] <HazRPG> czajkowski: actually the whole point of pdf originally was so that documents would look the same on all platforms it was viewed on - that way it can be printed & viewed in its entirety as the designed/writer intended.
[11:41] <czajkowski> HazRPG: one reason yes
[11:41] <HazRPG> it might have changed over the years... but that was the main reason for its creation
[11:42] <HazRPG> czajkowski: heh .doc is the worst file format on the planet
[11:43] <HazRPG> some of you may already know this, but .doc can sometimes store other things hidden in the document - however this might have been fixed since then, but it was a long standing bug for a while
[11:43]  * HazRPG doesn't really keep up to date with microsoft based formats/software very often
[11:44] <HazRPG> sorry for pointing out the obvious, I'm sure some of you already knew that
[11:46] <HazRPG> can pdf's actually be locked out completely? As far as I can tell you can convert the pdf to something else and then save it back as a pdf
[12:14] <dogmatic69> what is a good way to setup wifi to manage all computers connecting to it
[12:14] <dogmatic69> i was thinking of running my ubuntu box as a dhcp server or something
[12:15] <HazRPG> there are thousands of ways of doing it, but it just depends on why your doing it, and how many will be connecting to it.
[12:16] <HazRPG> If its just for internet access, and only a few are going to be connected at any one time, then a regular router configured correctly should suffice.
[12:17] <HazRPG> However if your concerned with privacy and security, then setting up a server with dhcp, proxy, etc might be a better solution.
[12:19] <directhex> HazRPG, storig extra innfo in a .doc is a feature, not a bug - but one many don't expect
[12:19] <Pendulum> hiya
[12:20] <dogmatic69> HazRPG: id like to set it up like airport wifi maybe
[12:20] <HazRPG> directhex: Hmm, if you mean extra descriptions about the .doc, who created it etc, then yes that's a feature. However I was talking about what I read a few years back about .doc files storing previously opened documents into newly created ones - which may, or may not, contain sensitive information
[12:21] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: how'd ya mean?
[12:21] <dogmatic69> mostly for fun, some for pissing off the person sponging of my internet
[12:21] <dogmatic69> HazRPG: like when you connect it only will load a custom page
[12:21] <dogmatic69> and then you would normally pay / enter a pw to access anything else
[12:22] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: if I recall that's what the use of a proxy server is for
[12:22] <HazRPG> but I might be wrong
[12:22] <dogmatic69> HazRPG: sounds about right
[12:23] <HazRPG> for it to work like that, then yes you will have to setup a dhcp server
[12:27] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: don't forget, if you are going to setup a dhcp, that you'll need to turn off the dhcp feature on your router
[12:27] <jacobw> Am I right in thinking that with Apache vHosts I can run two websites from the same VPS ?
[12:28] <dogmatic69> HazRPG: would it work if my pc is connected on wifi?
[12:28] <dogmatic69> HazRPG: ye i will
[12:28] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: what do you mean?
[12:28] <dogmatic69> would it be ok setting up a dhcp server that is only connected via wifi
[12:28] <HazRPG> oh you mean setting up the dhcp and stuff like that?
[12:29] <HazRPG> oh, is it a machine that's going to act as the dhcp server?
[12:29] <HazRPG> a machine connected via wifi*
[12:30] <HazRPG> its usually best to have a dhcp server as wired
[12:31] <HazRPG> I'm unsure how it'd work if you had it over wifi
[12:31] <jacobw> So you want to restrict access to all hosts except your PC, and you want your PC to act as a DHCP server?
[12:32] <HazRPG> sounds like he wants to setup a gateway of sorts to the internet
[12:32] <HazRPG> more than anything else
[12:33] <HazRPG> so that when browsers try to use the internet, it forces them to login first
[12:33] <jacobw> You'd have to assign a pool of addresses to your PC, it'd be complicated
[12:36] <dogmatic69> HazRPG: ye that is it, dont have wired for my pc :/ (which would be the dhcp server)
[12:37] <jacobw> Is there a reason why the obvious solution of encrypting the wireless traffic wouldn't work in this scenario?
[12:38] <dogmatic69> jacobw: loads of reasons, mostly no good ones.. but they should not be on my wifi :D
[12:39] <jacobw> That's my point, if you encrypted your wifi traffic then they can't establish a connection with the AP without the encryption key in the first place
[12:39] <jacobw> can't->couldn't
[12:39] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: ah, best solution for you would be to block all except MAC addresses you explicitly set - if you want it to be really secure
[12:39] <MadLeomon> I think the real question is why someone wouldn't encrypt their wifi
[12:40] <HazRPG> I have my wireless setup in this manner :)
[12:40] <directhex> so they can run an upside-down-ternet
[12:40] <dogmatic69> but if they can establish a connection and i piped it though a packet sniffer...
[12:41] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: dude, if you limit the wifi connects to only a set number of MAC addresses in your house, you shouldn't have any problems
[12:41] <HazRPG> MAC is a unique code imprinted inside the chips of each network device (network cards, wifi, routers, etc)
[12:41] <dogmatic69> ye, limiting the connections is easy
[12:41] <directhex> mac spoofing is trivial
[12:42] <jacobw> MAC address spoofing isn't particulary difficult, but they would have to know your MAC address, which is easy to learn if your wifi traffic is unencrypted
[12:42] <dogmatic69> directhex: that is not the point
[12:42] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: also, using WPA2 or better is a pretty decent security-wise
[12:43] <HazRPG> specially if you use a nice long access key for it
[12:43] <dogmatic69> i would like to have more control than just disabling it... like maybe limiting the connection to 10kb/s and other painfull things
[12:43] <dogmatic69> making 4000 ads show on every webpage
[12:43] <jacobw> Encrypt your wifi traffic AND set up MAC address filtering AND limit the pool of addresses available to DHCP IF you need to support a variable number of hosts
[12:44] <dogmatic69> also the other problem is that they are in the house, so its easy for them to reset the router
[12:44] <jacobw> Why would you want to go to that effort when is easy to prevent unauthorised access
[12:45] <jacobw> Well, relatively easy compared to other things
[12:45] <MadLeomon> that's what I've been wondering
[12:45] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: what he means by set a pool of addresses, he means limit the router to only allow say 3 wifi connections max (e.g. PC, laptop, phone)
[12:45] <jacobw> This sounds like a social problem rather than a technical problem
[12:45] <dogmatic69> jacobw: because its more fun
[12:45] <dogmatic69> jacobw: exactly
[12:46] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: you do realise if they're able to reset the router, then all settings would die with it too...
[12:46] <HazRPG> meaning the internet connection settings would die with it also (assuming its not hard coded into the device)
[12:47] <dogmatic69> HazRPG: even if dhcp is running of a server?
[12:47] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: yes
[12:47] <dogmatic69> hmm
[12:47] <dogmatic69> well that is assuming they know how
[12:47] <dogmatic69> talking your average windows user that has problems accessing facebook
[12:48] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: if they can reset it manually, the dhcp would re-enable on the router and since it is the first point of connection for the wifi devices would adopt the IP's from that. Worse case would be that both DHCP's would conflict with each other and would make each computer connected constantly get a different IP address (or even assigned the same IP address)
[12:48] <dogmatic69> ok
[12:49] <HazRPG> so it would cause havoc on the network
[12:49] <dogmatic69> ill just hide the network and change the logins for now
[12:50] <HazRPG> setting up encryption would be a good start too
[12:50] <HazRPG> by having it the way you wanted the first time round, you'd be allowing ANYONE to sniff your data
[12:50] <HazRPG> regardless of whether they could use the internet or not
[12:50] <jacobw> What router+switch+ap device have you got?
[12:52] <HazRPG> its scary to think someone would want to have no encryption on their network
[12:53] <jacobw> How long does it take to break WEP now?
[12:54] <HazRPG> jacobw: I've done it in less than a minute before using my house router and laptop
[12:54] <HazRPG> further away you go it takes longer then
[12:54] <HazRPG> though*
[12:56] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: WPA2 or WPA-PSK is probably the best encryption you can put on it at the moment (depending on your router though, there might be better)
[12:56]  * jacobw wonders if there's an Android application for cracking WEP yet
[12:56] <jacobw> WPA2-PSK is the standard as far as I'm aware
[12:56] <HazRPG> indeed
[12:57] <HazRPG> also, turn off SSID broadcasting if your really paranoid (however this means when your trying to set up the wireless on other devices, you need to put the name of the SSID manually instead of selecting from a list)
[12:58] <jacobw> Remembering your SSID is easy though
[12:59] <HazRPG> set wireless isolation on too (might be called MAC address white list, or wireless station access list, etc)
[12:59] <jacobw> I haven't thought about disabling SSID broadcasting
[12:59] <HazRPG> jacobw: really, I always do :)
[12:59] <jacobw> haven't->hadn't
[12:59] <jacobw> :p
[12:59] <HazRPG> just out of pure paranoia
[12:59] <HazRPG> ... I know way too many people who experiment with rainbow tables
[13:00] <jacobw> Is there a router+switch+ap avaible that can spoof the MAC addresses of the packets it forwards to the outside world
[13:01] <jacobw> ?
[13:03] <HazRPG> jacobw: hmm interesting... not sure if you can do that router side, but I'm pretty sure that the mac address in the packets are usually the thing sending out the information - which in this case would be the router
[13:04] <jacobw> Oh yeah, of course they would be :s
[13:04] <HazRPG> my router has mac spoofing, in the sense that you can assign the router to use any mac address you want - I had to do that for my current ISP because I was given a static IP address and was limited to the MAC address of the router they gave me.
[13:04] <jacobw> I was trying to think of a way to circumvent port security limiting the number of hosts per port
[13:04] <HazRPG> but I wanted to use my own router
[13:05] <HazRPG> thankfully when you set it to static, it asks if you want to use the computer's MAC address, the default MAC address, or type in your own.
[13:06] <HazRPG> jacobw: how so?
[13:07] <jacobw> http://packetlife.net/blog/2010/may/3/port-security/
[13:07] <jacobw> bbiab
[13:08] <HazRPG> what does that stand for?
[13:11] <HazRPG> jacobw: hmm, I'm not sure about that one
[13:30] <HazRPG> I'm really liking the dkpg-reconfigure command
[13:30] <HazRPG> just been using it to configure murmur
[13:31] <HazRPG> or mumble-server rather
[13:43] <HazRPG> wow configuring apache on linux is so different!
[13:43] <HazRPG> or maybe I've just been using an old version of it
[13:47] <jacobw> I need to learn to configure Apache
[13:48] <jacobw> wrt vHosts mainly
[14:21] <brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
[14:25] <jacobw> afternoon brobostigon
[14:26] <brobostigon> afternoonings jacobw
[14:39] <HazRPG> hey brobostigon :)
[14:39] <brobostigon> hey HazRPG :)
[14:39] <HazRPG> jacobw: apache is easy when your using a gui and a gui text-editor as I'm use to
[14:40]  * jacobw uses vim over ssh :p
[14:40] <jacobw> vim for the win
[14:40] <HazRPG> I use to setup a shared folder on win2003 which was where the site was hosted and mount it on my machines so that I could drag and drop files and the site would get updated
[14:41] <HazRPG> but I'm trying to get into the habit of terminal
[14:41] <jacobw> i think yuo can do that with gnome-vfs
[14:41]  * HazRPG learned so many commands recently my brain might exploded xD
[14:41] <jacobw> hehe
[14:41] <HazRPG> gnome-vfs?
[14:41] <HazRPG> oh to mount network drives?
[14:41] <jacobw> yeah
[14:42] <HazRPG> see that's what I'm looking into at the moment
[14:42] <HazRPG> im not sure whether it would be best to install samba/samba-server and do it that way, or to install ftp server of some sort and do it that way
[14:42] <brobostigon> or maybe sshfs?
[14:42] <HazRPG> because I'm sure ubuntu doesn't mind where drive is that its mounting if I recall
[14:43] <HazRPG> brobostigon: sshfs?
[14:43] <jacobw> yeah, i was going to say, samba seems superfluous and ftp seems insecure, so sshfs seems like the best opinion
[14:43] <brobostigon> HazRPG: filesystem mounting over ssh.
[14:43] <brobostigon> !info sshfs
[14:43] <HazRPG> brobostigon: ah, but would it would in windows?
[14:43] <brobostigon> HazRPG: not a clue.
[14:44] <jacobw> i feel your pain, i have to use Windows at work :(
[14:44] <HazRPG> jacobw: heh, at the moment I'm trying to transition myself completely away from windows - but man I can't help the gamer side of me
[14:45] <HazRPG> also, this darned keyboard hates anything that isn't windows :/
[14:45] <HazRPG> stupid proprietary drivers and non-standard hardware!
[14:45]  * brobostigon has been window free, on his machines, for just around a decade.
[14:45] <brobostigon> windows*
[14:45] <brobostigon> ms windows*
[14:45] <HazRPG> brobostigon: guessing you don't game though?
[14:46] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i certainly do, yes, no as  much as iused to though,
[14:46] <HazRPG> brobostigon: oh, shoot... not fair :( I can barely get anything to work properly under wine
[14:47] <brobostigon> HazRPG: native games dowork better.
[14:47] <HazRPG> depends on your setup :/
[14:47] <brobostigon> true.
[14:47] <HazRPG> I hate two monitors and it plays wild with twinview
[14:47] <HazRPG> have*
[14:48] <brobostigon> i see, not tried multi-monitor yet.
[14:48] <HazRPG> I was playing an ultimate game of tux typing the other day because of it
[14:48] <HazRPG> words kept flashing up on both screens!
[14:48] <brobostigon> lol :(
[14:48] <jacobw> get a console
[14:48] <HazRPG> first few levels I could cope... but after that it was insane!
[14:49] <HazRPG> jacobw: can't play most strat games on a console sadly :(
[14:49] <HazRPG> specially not starcraft
[14:49] <HazRPG> (despite it being ported over to a few things before)
[14:49] <HazRPG> SC2 is PC/OSX only :(
[14:50] <brobostigon> however, my biggest frustration here, is trying to get an uptodate gnome3/gnome-shell on 10.10 without having to run natty. :(
[14:50] <brobostigon> and natty pretty much died as soon as i installed it, yesterday, despite running fine from liveusb.
[14:51] <jacobw> ah, i'm more in to the GT/MGS/COD type of games
[14:51] <HazRPG> I originally went and got a x360 second-hand from someone who was moving away (£50 for 2 controllers, console boxed, cables, the works + 4 games) and then a wii and ps3 new... just so I could stay away from gaming on the PC - but sadly I'm not a massive war-shooter kind of guy which seems to be the trend at the moment :/
[14:52] <jacobw> i just can't be bothered with strategy games, except Fallout, but i wouldn't say thats a strategy game
[14:52] <jacobw> £50 is a cool price for all that
[14:52] <HazRPG> brobostigon: hmm, that's odd can you not run into a terminal and remove unity because that might be the issue
[14:53] <HazRPG> jacobw: fallout is more of an RPG/Shooter - which I like, great mix of shooter and RPG rolled in one
[14:53] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i ran it without unity, as it still majorly broke, most of gnome, and a few otherthings were seriously broke.
[14:54] <HazRPG> jacobw: I was hooked over xmas on borderlands which I got gifted via steam - sadly would have been better for it to have it on my ps3 though - because it means another thing that's tying me to windows :/
[14:54] <HazRPG> brobostigon: latest version of natty?
[14:54] <brobostigon> HazRPG: yesterday mornings daily,
[14:54] <HazRPG> ah
[14:55] <HazRPG> jacobw: £50 was just for the 360 though, I still bought the wii and ps3 out-right
[14:55] <HazRPG> I got the 360 before either of those existed though, so it wasn't all bought at the same time
[14:55] <brobostigon> HazRPG: so i might just use the alternate install, put onto usb, and install cli only, andbuild from there.
[14:55] <HazRPG> mainly got the ps3 for linux support and media stuff
[14:56] <HazRPG> which saddens me that they removed the linux support :(
[14:56] <HazRPG> brobostigon: might be worth just grabbing that last stable version, do your config from there, remove unity, etc then upgrade all your packages
[14:57] <brobostigon> i did see a ps3 natty build yesterday.
[14:57] <HazRPG> I say stable, I mean last /working/ version
[14:57] <HazRPG> brobostigon: yeah kind of useless unless I put the geohotz cfm though
[14:58] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i would be happier starting with cli only, as its so basic, i have more control.
[14:58] <HazRPG> and since he's still in the process of being sued, he hasn't updated it in a while
[14:58] <brobostigon> yes.
[14:58] <HazRPG> brobostigon: true...
[14:58] <HazRPG> I mean grab that last /working/ alternative version and work your way from there
[14:59] <HazRPG> that way at least you know it won't be heavily broken
[14:59] <HazRPG> if that makes sense at all
[15:00] <brobostigon> the alternate i tried yesterday, just plain didnt work.
[15:00] <HazRPG> brobostigon: heh was doing a bit of googling one night for a discussion I had with someone once and your blog popped up... you put me in your blog :)
[15:01] <HazRPG> brobostigon: yeah but the alt you tried was the daily wasn't it?
[15:01] <brobostigon> HazRPG: let me check?
[15:02] <brobostigon> cool, yes i did, :)
[15:02] <HazRPG> it might be more work, but if you go to the last working copy, and then install gnome-shell, then just update packages one by one until you find one that's broken then just roll it back
[15:02] <brobostigon> true, yes.
[15:03] <brobostigon> HazRPG: how did i mention you, and i what context?
[15:03] <brobostigon> in*
[15:03] <HazRPG> it was when we were doing the audrino thing :P
[15:03] <HazRPG> trying to get it to sync the time properly
[15:03] <brobostigon> ah, thats a while ago now.
[15:03] <HazRPG> it was!
[15:04] <brobostigon> HazRPG: and i figured out how to do it, :)
[15:05] <HazRPG> the annoying thing was, after reading it I thought... one thing we hadn't tried was sending a timestamp and storing it into a variable and having it increment as you'd expect time to, however that would be more processing for the board and I don't know how much resources that would eat up
[15:06] <HazRPG> brobostigon: oh did you?
[15:06] <brobostigon> HazRPG: the solution, was eventually, getting a gps module, and pulling the time each processing cycle.
[15:07] <HazRPG> heh, nice little hack :)
[15:08] <brobostigon> after all, gps has a very accurate time signal, i though well, we cantake avantege of that, and then maybe also use gps for other things later.
[15:08] <HazRPG> I suppose the other way round would be to see if there was a chip that could be placed onto the board for processing time
[15:08] <HazRPG> brobostigon: this is very true
[15:09] <brobostigon> that would still require said chip,toget the time from somewhere to work from.
[15:10] <HazRPG> brobostigon: well I have a feeling that the include files we were working on should have done the trick, I think the main problem was that the board wasn't processing the time at all
[15:10] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i still have that code backed up, somewhere,
[15:11] <HazRPG> hehe
[15:11] <brobostigon> i willgo find it, inabit.
[15:13] <HazRPG> I don't think the code was the problem, I mean we both looked at it and it /should/ have worked, I think the problem was that the board isn't/wasn't configured to operate time (I might be wrong)
[15:13] <brobostigon> i think you might be right, let me find the code again,
[15:14] <HazRPG> brobostigon: heh, it might have been our execution though ...
[15:14] <HazRPG> brobostigon: just found this: http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Code/Time
[15:15] <brobostigon> ithink we looked atthat lasttime.
[15:15] <HazRPG> seems someone has made a library for doing time without the need for an external timekeeping hardware
[15:15] <HazRPG> did we?
[15:15] <brobostigon> i think so,yes, iremember something like it.
[15:17] <HazRPG> I don't recall us doing this though: "this sketch by sending T1262347200 using the serial monitor (this sets the time to noon on Jan 1 2010"
[15:18] <brobostigon> iwould agree, however it needs to work independently  from any device,only itself.
[15:19] <HazRPG> does the arduino have an internal battery?
[15:19] <brobostigon> no.
[15:19] <HazRPG> ah, that might be the problem
[15:19] <Baikonur> infernal battery, charges from the fires of hell
[15:19] <brobostigon> it gets power from the main car battery, atthe moment,
[15:19] <HazRPG> Baikonur: ^^<
[15:20] <HazRPG> brobostigon: what did we keep doing originally?
[15:20] <brobostigon> HazRPG: in which aspect?
[15:20] <HazRPG> brobostigon: were you sending the code off, and then unplugging it and testing it? or was it always kept plugged into the PC?
[15:21] <HazRPG> because that might be why it was always showing up as if there was no time
[15:22] <brobostigon> HazRPG: it was kept plugged into pc, now its seperatly powered, in alittle box in the car,and only has a pc connected todebug and upload newcode.
[15:23] <suprengr> hi u-uk peeps o/
[15:23] <HazRPG> suprengr: hey dude
[15:24] <HazRPG> brobostigon: ok the code on that site doesn't show how the time is uploaded to the device, is that were we were going wrong maybe?
[15:25] <suprengr> just downloaded from Banshee [from 10.04 standard reo] to see what all the fuss is about... first impression... hmm, not that different from Rhythmbox...
[15:25] <suprengr> *repo
[15:25] <brobostigon> HazRPG: maybe, yes.
[15:25] <suprengr> ... but then I thought: "wot, no  'visualisations', & went back to RB?" Am I missing a trick here or is there a use other people are finding which I am not?
[15:25] <HazRPG> brobostigon: would make sense, the code does process the time, however if we weren't sending it any time information then it would be constantly waiting for time
[15:26] <HazRPG> suprengr: heh, I haven't tried banshee so I wouldn't know
[15:26] <HazRPG> I always just use Rhythmbox
[15:27] <brobostigon> HazRPG: this is why i think the gps idea, was asolution, for it to get the time,from.
[15:27]  * HazRPG opens up his vm
[15:29]  * HazRPG installs banshee
[15:30] <HazRPG> ooo banshee does look nicer
[15:34] <HazRPG> suprengr: huh, you might be right
[15:36] <HazRPG> suprengr: there is an extension made by the community to add visualisation support btw :)
[15:40] <HazRPG> suprengr: try this out: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/09/enable-visualisations-in-banshee-ubuntu/
[15:41] <HazRPG> it adds in support for Jamendo and a few other things that Rhythmbox use to be able to do too :)
[15:41] <HazRPG> they're all extensions so you can tick/untick whichever one you want
[15:59] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[16:00] <brobostigon> the net, e4. fairly  good film.
[16:01] <pr0ph3t> can I limit the bandwidth usage for each user from my ubuntu machine?
[16:02] <Azelphur> pr0ph3t: each Linux user, or each user on your network?
[16:02] <pr0ph3t> well the other one is a mac user
[16:02] <pr0ph3t> so each user on the network Azelphur
[16:03] <Azelphur> pr0ph3t: not unless your Ubuntu machine is the router :P
[16:03] <pr0ph3t> so I should distribute the internet through my ubuntu box?
[16:04] <Azelphur> not unless you want to play most complicated setup ever :p
[16:04] <brobostigon> couldnt you do the bandwidth  limiting directly on the router, dpeneding on if its capable or not.
[16:05] <Azelphur> brobostigon: never seen one that is
[16:05] <brobostigon> Azelphur: i am sure  my router here with openwrt could. forexample.
[16:05] <pr0ph3t> brobostigon, that would be great if it was possible
[16:05] <Azelphur> brobostigon: yea, openwrt or dd-wrt was about to be my suggestion
[16:06] <brobostigon> Azelphur: :)
[16:06] <Azelphur> pr0ph3t: what router do you have?
[16:08] <pr0ph3t> netgear with incorporated modem, latest virgin one
[16:08] <brobostigon> http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/start
[16:09] <Azelphur> pr0ph3t: model number :P
[16:09] <brobostigon> http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/start#netgear
[16:10] <brobostigon> or a cheap wrt54* ,and connect that to existing router,?
[16:11] <pr0ph3t> I'll have a look, thanks guys
[16:14] <HazRPG> brobostigon: cool, might have to watch that - is it on now?
[16:15] <brobostigon> HazRPG: yes.
[16:18]  * HazRPG wishes he had a tv in here
[16:18] <brobostigon> HazRPG: you could see if ch4 do a live stream,online thingie,like the bbc and itv.
[16:19] <daubers> evening
[16:19] <brobostigon> afternoonings daubers
[16:20] <brobostigon> more coffee needed.
[16:24] <Azelphur> http://www.imgzzz.com/i/image_1287658212.jpg haha :D
[16:41] <Thingymebob> Anyone ever used synfig?
[16:50] <brobostigon> HazRPG: amgoing to try todays daily, but no install, and see if i can make it persistant.
[16:59] <brobostigon> bbl.
[17:01] <jacobw> does anybody do 'the cycle' from 'time management for system administrators' using an android phone as the PDA?
[19:02] <Paul2> I would like to install wireshark >1.4 on lucid. It's in natty repos. Whats the best way to do this?
[19:03] <alexcockell> Umm- request backport?
[19:04] <alexcockell> File a request... wait until devs tell you it's in -backports?
[19:08] <popey> 10:10:18 < daubers> Is there anyway to edit an icon for an app in the Unity task bar thing?
[19:08] <popey> edit the .desktop file apparently
[19:09] <Paul2> oh you need a ubuntu account/login file a bug
[19:09] <Paul2> sounds like a lot of effort.
[19:11] <ali1234> backport it yourself
[19:12]  * mgdm can never be bothered rebuilding packages so compiles them an installs them in /opt
[19:12] <mgdm> I don't recommend that course of action, I just find it *much* easier
[19:12] <ali1234> i find it easier to build from the source deb these days
[19:12] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: xstow - An extended replacement of GNU Stow
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: and/or stow - Organizer for /usr/local software packages
[19:13] <mgdm> I'm aware of those
[19:13] <mgdm> wasn't a fan as I recall :)
[19:13] <ali1234> Paul2: https://launchpad.net/~dreibh/+archive/ppa
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: http://www.gentoo.org/ then :P
[19:14] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: err - I'm talking abou tthe odd package, not the entire distro :)
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: j/k :)
[19:19] <daubers> What if it doesn't have a .desktop file?
[19:22]  * czajkowski yawns and waves hi
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> daubers: what if what doesn't have a .desktop file?
[19:22] <daubers> MartijnVdS: A thing in the unity dock
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> ah
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> Don't use unity, can't stand it
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> (global menus and left-hand unconfigurable dock)
[19:25] <popey> daubers: what doesnt have one?
[19:26]  * czajkowski hugs popey
[19:27] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: i think unity will turn out to be the new wubi, where nobody uses it because you can't get support because nobody uses it...
[19:28] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWoobie
[19:28] <daubers> popey: Eclipse
[19:28] <MartijnVdS> daubers: eclipse is in the menu, so it has a desktop file
[19:29] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Mine isn't. I installed it from source to fix a few annoying cocmpatibility issues
[19:29] <daubers> Probably end up making it a .Desktop file
[19:32] <mgdm> I can send you the one for the built-in Eclipse if you like :)
[19:33] <mgdm> http://pastebin.com/1tAAgsET
[19:38] <daubers> mgdm: Ooooh, ta
[19:40] <mgdm> I have a very difficult decision to make right now
[19:40] <mgdm> Coffee, or Earl Grey...
[19:41] <gord> rather bemused as to why amazon is suddenly recommending to me dressese and baby stuff...
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> gord: it knows :)
[19:42] <daubers> gord: Best person to ask about that is your missus....
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> daubers: she'll have to tell him eventually, I guess
[19:43] <brobostigon> noswaith dda everyone.
[19:43] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: evening
[19:43] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: good evening, :)
[19:44]  * brobostigon has been kicked out of the living room to watch top gear, my dad has his friends from banbury operatic round, :(
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> sounds like... time to get your own place ;)
[19:45] <brobostigon> so flash here we come, :(
[19:45] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: very, inthe process of that, i am on the housing list,
[19:46]  * brobostigon doesnt like installing flash.
[19:47] <brobostigon> atleast i have a beer supply up here.
[19:47] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[19:47] <brobostigon> :)
[19:50]  * MartijnVdS has some home-brewed "Belgian-style" beer his brothers made
[19:50] <brobostigon> sounds yummy.
[19:50] <brobostigon> a pilsner or a weizen ?
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubbel ish
[19:53] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: sounds like an style weizen, to be truthful.
[19:53] <brobostigon> an old*
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> it's very yeasty
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> 8%ish
[19:53] <brobostigon> :)
[19:54]  * MartijnVdS moves to the TV
[19:54] <brobostigon> :)
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> ooh, Doctor
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> ^WAmy
[19:58] <suprengr> watch out, watch out - there's a Top Gear about [to start]
[19:58] <MartijnVdS> suprengr: hence my move to the couch :)
[19:58] <brobostigon> no spolilers,
[19:58] <popey> ooo
[19:59] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Top Gear is full of spoilers 8-)
[19:59] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: good point, :)
[19:59] <ali1234> jeremy clarkson is going to blow something up and offend foreigners
[19:59]  * popey hugs tvcatchup.com
[19:59] <Paul2> ali1234: cheers, I'm building from source now. meh.
[19:59]  * brobostigon hugs get_iplayer
[19:59] <popey> Paul2: its the linux way, you know that
[20:00] <popey> ugh, flash on nouveau is awful
[20:00] <ali1234> Paul2: why not just use the PPA i linked?
[20:03]  * brobostigon keeps his fingers crossed, flash doesnt play up.
[20:07] <daftykins> hey all :) long time no visit
[20:07] <MartijnVdS> hey daftyman
[20:07] <daftykins> what's the situation with flash 10.2 on Linux then? can it with with Lucid?
[20:08] <daftykins> sorry, i mean can GPU offload work with Lucid?
[20:08] <ali1234> sure, if you install nvidia driver
[20:08] <daftykins> this is for on my XBMC nettop, with Ion
[20:08] <daftykins> hmm, must be an issue then
[20:09] <ali1234> the issue is that flash developers have a whitelist of drivers that work, just like firefox
[20:09] <daftykins> because it couldn't handle scaling a video to fullscreen :D
[20:09] <brobostigon> flash i hammering my cpu here, in 10.10 on my eeepc.
[20:09] <ali1234> and that whitelist currently contains nvidia driver and nothing else
[20:09] <daftykins> ah
[20:09] <daftykins> that's quite bias isn't it
[20:09] <ali1234> it's not bias - the other drivers actually don't work
[20:09] <ali1234> especially nouveau
[20:10] <daftykins> i suppose i need to look for that info when right clicking on say, youtube videos to see if it's accelerating or not
[20:16] <daftykins> anywho, i was trying to watch the engadget show last on my nettop and it couldn't handle the scaling :D
[20:21] <Paul2> ali1234: saw it after I stared it
[20:21] <Paul2> but thanks anyway :)
[20:23] <brobostigon> wow, my eeepc is heating up under flash strain,
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> *melt*
[20:24] <brobostigon> i hope not.
[20:24] <daftykins> brobostigon \o/
[20:24] <daftykins> is that flash gordon's brother?
[20:24] <brobostigon> some floyd might chill it out inabit.
[20:27] <daftykins> my parents are debating throwing away one of my earliest computers
[20:27] <daftykins> the dan 120MHz Pentium 1 :O
[20:27] <MartijnVdS> awww
[20:28] <daftykins> i fired it up, it still works but i'm lacking the location of a DIN keyboard and serial mouse :)
[20:28] <brobostigon> :(
[20:28] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: the old big plug?
[20:28] <daftykins> yep
[20:28] <daftykins> pre-PS/2
[20:28] <MartijnVdS> wow
[20:28]  * brobostigon hugs his bebox,
[20:29] <daftykins> 9-pin serial Microsoft ball-mouse :D
[20:29]  * brobostigon will look after top gear.
[20:30]  * brobostigon is preferring ubuntu's notifications to debian sid's.
[21:04] <popey> hi bobobex !
[21:04] <popey> just the person!
[21:04] <popey> bobobex: don't suppose you know the name of the script that gets run when you first login to a new crunchbang install?
[21:05] <bobobex> Hi popey, hang on, I'll check
[21:05] <bigcalm> Evening popey, power back on then?
[21:05] <popey> yeah :)
[21:05] <popey> spent the whole day out
[21:09] <czajkowski> popey: not having much luck with natty are yiu
[21:09] <czajkowski> *you
[21:09] <popey> nope
[21:09]  * brobostigon neither.
[21:10] <brobostigon> it hasnt liked me eeepc the lastfew days,
[21:10] <brobostigon> :'(
[21:12] <brobostigon> sudo apt-get remove adobe-flash
[21:12]  * czajkowski goes back to writing her blog post
[21:13] <popey> [sudo] password for ptaylor:
[21:13] <czajkowski> annoying having an idea to write one and then trying to work out what to say so it doesnt offend or piss folks off
[21:14] <brobostigon> popey: you might be interested to know, its popey, :)
[21:14] <popey> hah
[21:15]  * popey hopes bobobex is okay :()
[21:16] <popey> I always think :() (which was a typo) looks like a monkey face
[21:17] <bobobex> popey, Got there in the end - it's called cb-welcome
[21:17]  * popey hugs bobobex
[21:17] <popey> please pass that on to his nibs :)
[21:18] <bobobex> popey, you're welcome & will do (when I see him next)
[21:29] <gord> i am still bemused and have no idea what to do when i start doing a smiley whilst inside of ( )
[21:29] <brobostigon> (:'))
[21:30] <brobostigon> weird
[21:30] <mgdm> http://xkcd.com/859/
[21:30] <mgdm> somewhat related :)
[21:31] <brobostigon> i see,
[21:31] <brobostigon> i missed that, :(
[21:37] <popey> love the alt tag
[21:38]  * brobostigon notices popey's eeepc 900 natty dent,
[21:41] <gord> not being able to find your screw drivers when you need to screw driver something is llike torture =\
[21:42] <brobostigon> agreed.
[21:46] <popey> crunchbang working verynicelyindeed on the eee 900
[21:47] <brobostigon> ok, crunchbang is based on debian testing isnt it.
[21:48] <gord> hrm, hard to find space for laptop and two monitors on this desk, i may need to invest in multiple desks
[21:49] <gord> and maybe hire an engineer to figure out a system where i can spin the desks around me to choose my workstation
[21:50] <penguin42> gord: You know those things in is it Korean restaurants ....
[21:50] <mgdm> a "lazy Susan"
[21:50] <penguin42> well, there's the obscure fact of the day
[21:50] <mgdm> \o/
[21:50] <penguin42> cool, didn't know that
[21:53] <popey> brobostigon: based on debian 6
[21:53] <popey> according to /etc/debian_version on this eee
[21:53] <brobostigon> popey: oh, stable, ok.
[21:53] <brobostigon> wheesy*
[21:54] <popey> no
[21:54] <popey> squeeze
[21:54] <popey> thats what lsb_release reports anyway
[21:54] <brobostigon> isnt that stable now, ?
[21:55] <popey> i have no idea
[21:56] <brobostigon> yes, squeese is stable now,
[21:56] <popey> this seems to work quite nicely
[21:56] <mgdm> it was released over the FOSDEM weekend, IIRC
[21:56] <popey> and has a neat script that runs when you first login
[21:56] <brobostigon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian#Release_history
[21:57] <popey> to install lots of extra stuff you might want/need
[21:57] <d3ngar> hey there
[21:57] <brobostigon> i think i need to try it,
[21:57] <brobostigon> noswaith dda d3ngar
[21:57] <mgdm> Crunchbang was tremendous back when I first got my Aspire One
[21:57] <d3ngar> I have a problem playing DVDs with pretty much any programme
[21:57] <mgdm> as it has a dead HD and I need to reinstall anyway, I might try it again
[21:57] <d3ngar> Tried MPLayer, Totem, VLC
[21:57] <popey> i do like the feature to install dropbox from a menu item
[21:57] <popey> thats quite neat
[21:58] <popey> d3ngar: what problem? do you get an error message of some kind?
[21:58] <d3ngar> Totem tells me that there is an error reading from the disc
[21:58] <d3ngar> But the disc is fine, I tried others
[21:58] <d3ngar> The menu loads okay
[21:58] <brobostigon> its going to be either debian sid/experimental here, and or natty, to run gnome3/gnome-shell,
[21:59] <popey> d3ngar: have you done all the silly bits to do with decss?
[21:59] <d3ngar> dvdcss?
[21:59] <d3ngar> decss has got no meaning to me
[22:00] <brobostigon> !info libdvdcss2
[22:00] <popey> !dvd
[22:00] <popey> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/PlayingDVDs specifically
[22:01] <popey> there is a little script you need to run which does the stuff to make DVDs play
[22:01] <d3ngar> popey: Yeah done that
[22:01] <popey> no idea then, sorry
[22:01] <d3ngar> any idea where I could ask?
[22:01] <popey> tried running vlc in a terminal and see what it says?
[22:02] <popey> get the specific error message
[22:02] <d3ngar> know the command?
[22:02] <brobostigon> vlc, and then do as normal, and look for errors.
[22:03] <brobostigon> enter*
[22:03] <d3ngar> yeah, will try
[22:03] <d3ngar> -v gives verbose output
[22:03] <brobostigon> yes.
[22:03] <d3ngar> Interesting
[22:04] <d3ngar> It says libdvdcss is not available
[22:04] <d3ngar> I installed this package
[22:04] <ikonia> ok ubuntu uk'ers lets talk SSD's I need a minimum of 12GB, MLC to keep the cost down, SLC is over kill, what's my best band for buck options,
[22:04] <brobostigon> d3ngar: do you have libdvdcss from medibuntu ?
[22:04] <ikonia> I can see an OCZ 120GB  drive that seems to be the best option, but I'm out of the loop
[22:04] <d3ngar> no
[22:05] <brobostigon> libdvdcss is the part of vlc that does dvd decoding.
[22:05] <d3ngar> should be fine to install it from the script?
[22:05] <d3ngar> brobostigon: there is a script that gets it for you: /usr/share/doc/libdvdread4/install-css.sh
[22:05] <brobostigon> d3ngar: i always justadded medibuntu repo manually, and that installed manually, but i am sure there is a better way now.
[22:05] <brobostigon> then*
[22:06] <brobostigon> d3ngar: oh,  i see. i didnt know about that. sorry.
[22:06] <popey> ikonia: how much do you want to spend?
[22:06] <popey> ikonia: I just got an Intel X25-M 120GB and love it
[22:06] <bigcalm> Gah, I hate webkit right now
[22:07] <popey> 150 quid
[22:07] <ikonia> popey: that's pretty reasonable
[22:07] <popey> yeah
[22:07] <popey> ebuyer
[22:07] <ikonia> popey: the OCZ I was looking at was 167 including VAT
[22:07] <ikonia> http://www.scan.co.uk/products/120gb-ocz-technology-vertex-2e-25-sandforce-ssd-mlc-flash-read-285mb-s-write-275mb-s
[22:07] <ikonia> I'd like a little bigger if possible but the price jumps massive over 120
[22:07] <d3ngar> brobostigon: do you know where libdvdcss should be located?
[22:07] <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/239663
[22:07] <brobostigon> d3ngar: in medibuntu.
[22:07] <popey> 173.34 inc vat, sorry, I dont pay vat
[22:07] <d3ngar> erm?
[22:08] <ikonia> and my SLC drive was something stupid like £400 for a 600GB drive
[22:08] <ikonia> popey: well, I don't as it goes through the business
[22:08] <brobostigon> !medibuntu
[22:08] <d3ngar> /home/mediabuntu?
[22:08] <popey> ouch
[22:08] <ikonia> but it's still "there"
[22:08] <popey> ikonia: exactly
[22:08] <popey> well, yes
[22:08] <d3ngar> That's not a location
[22:08] <popey> d3ngar: just follow the instructions at the link provided
[22:08] <brobostigon> thanks popey
[22:08] <d3ngar> but it's already installed, no?
[22:08] <d3ngar> So where would the file normally be located?
[22:08] <popey> what file?
[22:09] <d3ngar> libdvdcss.so?
[22:09] <popey> have you run /usr/share/doc/libdvdread4/install-css.sh ?
[22:09] <d3ngar> yup
[22:10] <ikonia> popey: our of interest what device is the SSD in ?
[22:10] <popey> ikonia: a toshiba laptop
[22:11]  * d3ngar reads: "Rebooting may be necessary."
[22:11]  * d3ngar curses
[22:11] <d3ngar> I'll try to reboot
[22:11] <d3ngar> I'll let you guys know if that did anything
[22:11] <d3ngar> ttfn
[22:11] <popey> hang on
[22:11] <d3ngar> hanging
[22:11] <d3ngar> ?
[22:12] <popey> do you have /usr/lib/libdvdcss.so.* ?
[22:12] <exobuzz> popey, great to see the podcast is coming back. nice one!
[22:12] <popey> :)
[22:13] <d3ngar> popey: how can I search for a file?
[22:13] <popey> just open a terminal and type:-
[22:13] <popey> ls -l /usr/lib/libdvdcss.so.*
[22:13] <d3ngar> yep, I have it
[22:13] <popey> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root    18 2011-02-20 22:10 /usr/lib/libdvdcss.so.2 -> libdvdcss.so.2.1.0
[22:13] <popey> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 34808 2008-09-15 16:19 /usr/lib/libdvdcss.so.2.1.0
[22:13] <popey> like that?
[22:14] <d3ngar> yes
[22:14] <d3ngar> these two
[22:14] <exobuzz> i prefer ls -l /usr/lib/libdvdcss.so.* | cowsay ;-)
[22:14] <popey> heh
[22:15] <popey> d3ngar: no idea why it doesnt work then, you have the libs
[22:15] <d3ngar> I certainly do
[22:15] <popey> i would do as previously suggested, run vlc on the command line and see what it does
[22:15] <d3ngar> Maybe restart is necessary
[22:15] <popey> unlikely
[22:15] <d3ngar> VLC told me that I don't have the files to read sestricted
[22:15] <d3ngar> but I do???
[22:15] <popey> how odd
[22:15] <d3ngar> Well
[22:15] <d3ngar> I shall reboot
[22:15] <popey> ok
[22:15] <d3ngar> And return!
[22:16] <d3ngar> Maybe it has problems with 64-bit?
[22:16] <brobostigon> weird.
[22:16] <brobostigon> should be needed,
[22:16]  * popey shrugs
[22:16] <popey> I'd get the log
[22:16] <brobostigon> ?
[22:16] <brobostigon> vlc's, yes.
[22:16] <d3ngar> brb
[22:19] <brobostigon> be careful with /exec boys and girls.
[22:20] <popey> hmm?
[22:20] <brobostigon> popey: as it allows output from normal terminal into irssi.
[22:22] <popey> it does
[22:22] <popey> if you call it right
[22:22] <popey>  /exec -o figlet MOO
[22:22] <popey> vs
[22:22] <brobostigon> agreed.
[22:22] <popey>  /exec figlet MOO
[22:23] <ikonia> ok, SSD purchased
[22:23] <d3ngar> Well, good new
[22:23] <d3ngar> s
[22:23] <d3ngar> news even:
[22:23] <d3ngar> It works once I restarted
[22:23] <brobostigon> hmm.
[22:23] <d3ngar> How retarted
[22:23] <d3ngar> I feel like it's 1995 again :D
[22:24] <brobostigon> popey: i agree.
[22:24] <ikonia> popey: appreciate the input
[22:25] <ikonia> now I need a "cool" desk positioned powered USB hub
[22:26] <popey> np ikonia
[22:27] <popey> ikonia: seen the ones that clamp on the side of the desk?
[22:27] <ikonia> nope
[22:27] <popey> so cables drop to the floor rather than go all over the desk
[22:27] <ikonia> popey: got a link, that looks different
[22:27]  * brobostigon goes all old fashioned and puts jethro tull on.
[22:27] <popey> googlin
[22:28] <ikonia> scan.co.uk are silly they have some offers on SSD drives, you click to buy them and they are on "pre-order"
[22:28] <ikonia> but it's a today only offer
[22:28] <popey> http://cableorganizer.com/reviews/read_review.php?page_id=BE-F5U201-KIT
[22:28] <popey> not what i was thinking but equally neat
[22:28] <popey> i have 3 such holes in my machine
[22:28] <popey> s/machine/desk/
[22:29] <ikonia> that's quite cool, I could use just one more port though as a buffer, 5 - 6 ports would be perfect
[22:29] <ikonia> actually, 4 will be fine
[22:30] <ikonia> popey: you are genius today
[22:30] <popey> haha
[22:30] <popey> just today
[22:30] <popey> One day only! Special offer!
[22:30] <daftykins> ;)
[22:30] <daftykins> hey popey, hope you're well
[22:30] <popey> 1.5 hours left, make the most of it!
[22:30] <popey> daftykins: hey ho daftykins !
[22:30] <daftykins> ^_^
[22:53] <Azelphur> anyone know how much it costs / how to get a second telephone line?
[22:53] <brobostigon> depends of the telephone operator, i suspect.
[22:54] <bigcalm> Cost me 50 quid when I got a 2nd line in 2002
[22:54] <Azelphur> ah I see, so you need to talk to your TSP about it?
[22:54] <Azelphur> cool
[22:54] <bigcalm> Or was it 1999?
[22:54] <popey> http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=bt+cost+of+second+line+installation&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
[22:54] <popey> http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=25497
[22:55] <popey> most houses have two lines already
[22:55] <popey> gord: if i repeatedly ALT_Tab between two apps in unity, the windows creep cross the screen to the right
[22:55] <popey> is this known bug?
[22:56] <popey> Installation is only £30 (subject to survey) and will appear on your next bill. No paper-free discount is available on an additional line and a minimum term of 12 month applies.
[22:56] <popey> Azelphur: from the faq on that site
[22:57] <Azelphur> fun
[22:57] <Azelphur> popey: but that's clamped to BT
[22:57] <popey> well, thats bt prices, sure
[22:57] <Azelphur> I'm interested in not being clamped to BT
[22:57] <popey> "Other providers may vary"
[22:57] <Azelphur> ah I see
[22:57] <Azelphur> so yea it's as I said gotta ask my provider
[22:58]  * brobostigon gets everyone a panderyn, :)
[22:59] <brobostigon> welsh whisky*
[23:00] <Azelphur> also, since I'm getting a second line
[23:00] <Azelphur> what's the deal with line bonding? ;)
[23:00] <popey> "the deal"?
[23:01] <popey> not all ISPs do line bonding do they?
[23:01] <popey> AAISP do iirc
[23:01] <Azelphur> ah, so it has to be supported on the ISPs side
[23:01] <popey> i think so
[23:01] <popey> AAISP provide a special box at your end too
[23:02] <Azelphur> popey: haha, only problem is their data prices are ridiculous
[23:02] <popey> yup
[23:02] <brobostigon> native ipv6.
[23:02] <Azelphur> popey: based on my current usage, £235.40/mo :D
[23:02] <popey> cheaper to get a leased line I'd imagine :)
[23:03] <Azelphur> indeed
[23:03] <popey> unless you're in the middle of nowhere
[23:03] <Azelphur> I was just thinking, Sky do 24mbit for £10/mo, and as I'm getting a second line anyway
[23:03] <popey> symmetric too
[23:04] <Azelphur> I'm probably in the middle of nowhere
[23:57] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[23:57] <pr0ph3t> to install virtualbox on natty, is the contrib version on the repositories?


[07:21] <Bengan_> Good morning. I tried to install Lubuntu onto a machine yesterday. I got as far as Installing bootloader, then it crashed! Has theproblem been fixed?
[09:43] <filisko> why on lubuntu default theme when I change the colors they never change?
[14:32] <cimbakahn> Is anyone out there?'
[14:33] <cimbakahn> I cannot find vlc and ubuntu-restricted-extras in Synaptic PM.
[14:34] <bioterror> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install lubuntu-restricted-extras vlc
[14:41] <cimbakahn> It looks like it might be working.
[14:44] <cimbakahn> Yep!  It worked.  Thank you very much!
[14:46] <bioterror> you're welcome
[14:46] <cimbakahn> I wonder how i was able to get both of those without having a PPA for them......
[14:49] <bioterror> they do not need PPA
[14:52] <cimbakahn> If they were not in Synaptic, how was i able to get them with those commands?
[14:53] <tsimonq2> hi, I was wondering how I could make VLC the default media player in Lubuntu
[14:53] <tsimonq2> for all video and audio files
[15:06] <cimbakahn> I was just trying to do the same thing but i can't figure it out yet.
[15:08] <cimbakahn> I went to Prefrences / Default Applications for LXSession.
[15:09] <Needing-help> ;help
[15:09] <AntiSpamMeta> Please refer to http://antispammeta.net and irc.freenode.net #antispammeta
[15:11] <Needing-help> hello, please anyone, i need help, i installed lubuntu live iso on usb flash drive, and booted it, but failed with a kernel panic, i read something related to this processot is not supported, but i`m not sure, because my processor is a VIA c7 x86 compliant, Can anyone please help me? i tried to boot with safe parameters, but the initial menu is broken (is missing safe options).
[15:12] <Needing-help> i`m waiting, thanks in advance.
[15:14] <cimbakahn> I don't know the solution to your problem.  Maybe someone else does.
[15:14] <Needing-help> thank you
[15:16] <Needing-help> do you know how to boot with acpi=off, but instead of using (install acpi=off) use .... something live iso ....... acpi=off ?
[15:21] <cimbakahn> No.  Sorry!  I don't.
[15:22] <cimbakahn> There will be many more people here later.  I'm sure someone can help you.
[16:32] <cimbakahn> Does this really work on this page ----> http://askubuntu.com/questions/57919/how-to-open-all-video-files-with-vlc    Editing the mimeapps.list at ~/.local/share/applications
[16:33] <cimbakahn> I wouldn't be screwing anything up if i did it, would i?
[17:14] <cimbakahn> Is this correct? ---->  https://paste.teknik.io/2437      Or should each line have a ; Semi-colon after it?
[17:30] <krytarik> cimbakahn: For reference: http://standards.freedesktop.org/mime-apps-spec/mime-apps-spec-1.0.1.html
[17:31] <cimbakahn> Thank you Krytarik!  I'll check it out.
[17:38] <cimbakahn> What is crossposting?  So i can make sure i don't do it again.
[17:40] <krytarik> !crosspost | cimbakahn
[17:44] <cimbakahn> I see.  I didn't know that.  I was just doing that in hopes that i would get an answer.  There have been times in the past where i never got an answer at all and i was very patient.  Sometimes i waited an hour.  Sorry!
[17:45] <wxl> cimbakahn: such is the nature of irc. not everyone available always has the answer to a specific question. also don't forget we're all volunteers and have regular jobs too XD
[17:45] <wxl> cimbakahn: if you can'
[17:45] <wxl> t get an immediate answer, using alternative means like askubuntu or mailing lists wqould be suggested
[17:46] <cimbakahn> Thank you for the other ideas!
[17:47] <wxl> np and good luck with yoru issue :)
[21:42] <OpenSorce> Hi guys! I'm looking for a way to edit .desktop files so that I can make the app launch with it's own titlebar (decoration) without the system decoration. Is there a way to do this?
[21:43] <OpenSorce> Or maybe find an exclusions list like blackbox uses to exclude some apps from being decorated?
[22:26]  * tsimonq2 is gone: test
[22:27] <iynque> TEST FAILED. You will not inherit the chocolate factory. GOOD DAY.


[00:44] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Contributors to the kernel, or the broader community and environment?  There's a list with actual statistics for the kernel.
[00:49] <Takyoji> Really any form of contribution to Linux community
[00:55] <tonyyarusso> System76 and ZaReason should be on there.
[00:55] <tonyyarusso> Red Hat, HP, Novell
[00:55] <tonyyarusso> GNU
[00:59] <tonyyarusso> Oracle
[01:00] <tonyyarusso> Linux Foundation, SGI, MontaVista, MIPS, ARM, Nokia, AMD
[01:01] <tonyyarusso> Parallels, Fujitsu
[01:01] <tonyyarusso> Samsung
[01:03] <tonyyarusso> Canonical :P
[04:58] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: FYI, I'll be in St. Peter Friday night and Saturday.
[04:59] <Takyoji> Egad, it's only like a +/-10 minute difference. :P
[04:59] <Takyoji> I had to even look at a map to see where it is. :P
[05:00] <tonyyarusso> 10 minute difference in what?
[05:01] <Takyoji> Of driving to St. Peter in comparison to driving to the metro
[05:02] <tonyyarusso> oh, lol
[05:02] <tonyyarusso> well, south metro anyway.
[05:02] <tonyyarusso> I remember last year there was some reason your family was considering being in Mankato anyway.
[05:03] <Takyoji> I don't recall
[05:04] <Takyoji> Still need the background info of the Ubuntu school deployment?
[05:05] <tonyyarusso> Yes please.
[20:53] <Takyoji> What's the alleged number of patents that Linux allegedly infringes, as per Ballmer originally?


[21:58] <pwnguin> is it common for a source package to be a tarball?
[21:58] <pwnguin> let me rephrase
[21:58] <pwnguin> what's going on with coreutils?
[21:59]  * slangasek hopes another rephrasing is pending
[22:00] <pwnguin> used apt to get the source code, and there's a tarball instead of an unpacked source dir
[22:00] <slangasek> ah
[22:00] <pochu> tarball-in-tarball?
[22:00] <pwnguin> i guess
[22:00] <slangasek> that's not common; I consider it actively discouraged
[22:00] <pochu> not common, but not forbidden
[22:00] <pochu> discouraged++ :)
[22:01] <persia> actually, I kinda like it when upstream distributes a .zip file.
[22:01] <LaserJock> I've used it for that before
[22:02] <slangasek> I can't fathom why the coreutils 6.10 tarball is the way it is.  The 6.12 one is not
[22:02] <Skiessi> is libsamplerate staying at 0.1.4 for jaunty?
[22:02] <maxb> I can see it being a matter of preference, but why zip-in-tarball rather than uscan --repack ?
[22:02] <slangasek> so the question goes away with a merge
[22:02] <pwnguin> ok. i just wanted to browse the source code to uniq and ran across that oddity
[22:03] <cjwatson> maxb: some people prefer to ship the original source bit-for-bit
[22:03] <Skiessi> http://tinyurl.com/aglwp4 this graph says there's a lot of awesomeness in the newer versions
[22:03] <cjwatson> it's really a dpkg anomaly that it can't cope with more original source formats
[22:03] <cjwatson> one that's being fixed at least for tar.bz2 and the like although I don't know about zip
[22:03] <fta> anyone working on fixing the bad regression introduced recently in libsdl1.2debian breaking sdl apps using opengl?
[22:03] <cjwatson> tarball-in-tarball was popular at one point due to a particular patch system
[22:04] <maxb> dbs
[22:04] <cjwatson> indeed
[22:04] <cjwatson> and I think cdbs has a tarball.mk
[22:04] <cjwatson> slangasek: you get multiple X-Launchpad-Bug: headers, one per task
[22:05] <slangasek> cjwatson: ah, optimal :)
[22:05] <cjwatson> (conveniently, the last message in =ubuntu/mybugs is an example of this)
[22:31] <slangasek> directhex, meebey: hmm, what's this?: Failure adding assembly gmime-sharp.dll to the cache: Strong name cannot be verified for delay-signed assembly
[22:31] <meebey> slangasek: ohoh, an outstanding issue
[22:31] <meebey> slangasek: IIRC upstream lost the signing key
[22:31] <slangasek> hmm
[22:32] <meebey> slangasek: and mono enforces the signature now :(
[22:32] <meebey> slangasek: good news is that gmime 2.4 ships a signing key now
[22:32] <slangasek> so we need to upgrade to gmime 2.4 first?
[22:32] <meebey> slangasek: bad news is, that changing the key of gmime 2.2 would mean an ABI breakage
[22:32] <ajmitch> they lost the key?
[22:33] <meebey> yes... *cough*
[22:33] <directhex> ajmitch, awesomez!
[22:33] <ajmitch> directhex: quite
[22:33] <meebey> it was never in the tarball and nobody noticed because mono didn't care
[22:33] <soren> Any archive admins around to review xmlbeans, please?
[22:33] <slangasek> meebey: tomboy and beagle are the only reverse-deps, so I don't think ABI breakage should be a big deal... except that I don't have a clue how to manage the actual ABI changing of a mono lib
[22:34] <meebey> slangasek: rename package to 2.2a-cil? :)
[22:34] <slangasek> meebey: that's all?
[22:34] <meebey> slangasek: gmime itself had an ABI breakage too (for a different reason) :-P
[22:34] <directhex> meebey, is it in the policy doc?
[22:34] <slangasek> meebey: or should I just track gmime 2.4?
[22:35] <meebey> slangasek: sure that nobody else uses gmime?
[22:35] <meebey> slangasek: the C API changed alot I heard, that reason the maintainer went away :(
[22:36] <slangasek> meebey: those are the only cil reverse-deps.  I'll check the C stuff too
[22:36] <meebey> slangasek: so for 2.4 I think that will take a while till the apps are ported
[22:36] <directhex> short version: computers suck
[22:36] <meebey> slangasek: 2.4 should be packaged as a new source package IMHO
[22:37] <meebey> slangasek: I can't tell how much porting tomboy and beagle need
[22:37] <meebey> slangasek: you could try that route, only port the C# apps for now
[22:37] <meebey> slangasek: that would mean we found the missing C maintainer, yay! :-P
[22:37] <slangasek> erm
[22:39] <meebey> slangasek: deal, I help you porting the C# apps, and you care for the C part (no transition needed for now, just care for the C lib package)
[22:40] <meebey> slangasek: I am partly familar with the C# API, our company uses it
[22:40] <slangasek> meebey: "care for"?
[22:40] <slangasek> meebey: if you mean "check it over for this one upload"...
[22:41] <meebey> slangasek: nah, I am teh C noob, I don't (actually should not) touch that C lib part
[22:42] <meebey> slangasek: "care for" as in being maintainer for the C package part (libgmimeX + libgmime-dev) :)
[22:42] <slangasek> meebey: pass, sorry
[22:42] <meebey> slangasek: or find someone in debian who would like to do that :)
[22:43] <meebey> slangasek: I tried in pkg-gnome, but nobody seems to be interested
[22:46] <meebey> slangasek: for the reference: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=513428
[22:46] <meebey> nice botty
[22:46] <slangasek> meebey: ok, there are a number of other C reverse-deps; I would rather not deal with the scope creep of transitioning those packages at the same time.  Is the key something I can grab from gmime2.4 upstream?
[22:47] <meebey> slangasek: yes its in the released 2.4 tarball
[23:16]  * calc will finally be converting his wife over to ubuntu today :)
[23:16] <calc> along with vmware unity for adobe cs4
[23:16] <NCommander> calc, yay!
[23:17] <calc> if all goes well on the laptop conversion i will be converting her desktop as well
[23:45] <directhex> yay for whomever has the archive admin hat
[23:46] <cjwatson> tain't me, I'm desperately uploading stuff
[23:47] <directhex> cjwatson, before FF?
[23:47] <cjwatson> aye
[23:47]  * directhex hunts for his stopwatch
[23:48] <mathiaz> slangasek: openldap 2.4.14-0ubuntu1 uploaded to jaunty
[23:48] <slangasek> @yay
[23:48] <cjwatson> slangasek: can I have a FF exception for gparted 0.4.2+ (ext4 support)? I'm not going to get to the sponsorship before midnight
[23:48] <directhex> i'm tired; i'd rather get an FFe for a package produced when not comatose than write a bad debdiff. motu-release are already up to speed on my plans & progress
[23:49] <slangasek> cjwatson: yes
[23:49] <cjwatson> rock, thanks
[23:50] <mathiaz> slangasek: I've used a loomified bzr branch to handle the ubuntu pkg. It's based on debian svn repository and looks like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/119862/
[23:51] <mathiaz> slangasek: how should I send relevant patches to debian?
[23:51] <directhex> i've achieved most of my headline goals for jaunty - now it's just tidying up before release
[23:51] <mathiaz> slangasek: should I try to push the loomified bzr branch somewhere and you can look at it?
[23:52] <slangasek> mathiaz: I'm the only one on that team who has a preference for bzr, so that makes me a bottleneck; but it's better than nothing if you don't have time to push individual patches to the mailing listn
[23:53] <mathiaz> slangasek: well - it's rather easy to push patches to the mailing list since I've used looms


[03:59] <Prabakaran> Hello Team, I am getting this charm build error which is quite strange and charm build was fine before "http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/19144002/"
[03:59] <Prabakaran> Could somebody help me on this ?
[07:36] <BlackDex> Hello there. I had a juju bootstrap on a virtual system. That host crashed with all its data. Is there some way to rebuild the bootstrap with already running juju deployed systems?
[07:36] <BlackDex> no backup what so ever because someone deleted them :(
[07:37] <magicaltrout> don't think so BlackDex, you'll be missing the mongo controller, the various ssh keys etc
[07:40] <BlackDex> keys can be replaced.   I added it after you closed the issue, but I think there's an issue with charmbox there
[13:52] <cory_fu> marcoceppi: ^  maybe the version has to do with apt packaging?
[13:52] <marcoceppi> cory_fu: it shouldn't have
[13:53] <mbruzek> cory_fu: I remember looking at this with lazyPower, we did have the version ranged, not sure if it was pinned
[13:55] <cory_fu> mbruzek: Hrm.  It's pinned in requirements.txt: https://github.com/juju/charm-tools/blob/master/requirements.txt#L20  but not in setup.py: https://github.com/juju/charm-tools/blob/master/setup.py#L16
[13:55] <cory_fu> That means we're running tests with a different version than what is getting installed
[13:55] <cory_fu> And it means that https://github.com/juju-solutions/charmbox/blob/master/install-review-tools.sh#L14 is causing every new version of the lib to get installed, without testing if it works with charm-tools
[13:56] <cory_fu> I bring this up because Prabakaran is hitting this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/19144002/
[13:56] <mbruzek> cory_fu: so the solution would be to pin it in setup.py?
[13:57] <cory_fu> Though that actually does work for me with the latest version, but the opened & closed GitHub issue on charm-tools is another symptom of us not pinning our deps
[13:57] <cory_fu> mbruzek: TBH, I think that --upgrade flag in charmbox might upgrade deps irrespective of pinning, but I'm not certain
[13:58] <cory_fu> I think a better solution would be to use a yaml library that doesn't let breaking changes get in so frequently.  ;)  But pyyaml doesn't include the round-trip behavior that we need
[13:58] <mbruzek> cory_fu: correct
[13:58] <mbruzek> cory_fu: I think marcoceppi would love to reduce the dependencies on other packages
[13:58] <mbruzek> cory_fu: but we are stuck with ruamel for now
[13:59] <mbruzek> cory_fu: I can propose a pinned version of ruamel in setup.py
[14:00] <lazyPower> i'm good with whatever yinz need to do there
[14:00] <lazyPower> it was cleaned up after the latest bump, but that doesn't mean we aren't headed for another path.py level breakage
[14:00] <mbruzek> I see deprecation warnings in the bundletester builds.
[14:01] <mbruzek> path.py will bite us again
[14:01] <kjackal> hey cory_fu, I would like some advice on relations... juju relations :)
[14:01] <kjackal> cory_fu: let me know when you have 10 minutes to spare
[14:13] <cory_fu> mbruzek, marcoceppi, lazyPower: Ok, so it looks like the version of ruamel.yaml that we have pinned in charm-tools actually has a bug of sorts in it.  Specifically, parser.py was renamed to parser_.py at some point prior to 0.10.23 and renamed back in 0.11.8.  But we only hit this if there's an error in parsing layer.yaml and there's apparently no test coverage of that case
[14:13] <lutostag> bcsaller: having a look at http://interfaces.juju.solutions/interface/pgsql/, my first foray into the reactive charm world... hoping you might be able to help me...
[14:13] <lazyPower> lutostag - we can help :) whats up?
[14:14] <lutostag> lazyPower: cool, so I have this charm that relates to postgresql... where I need to have an extension
[14:15] <lutostag> that is provided by git://git.launchpad.net/postgresql-charm, which would let me according to the old way... juju set-relation extensions=tablefunc
[14:16] <lutostag> I have this code... http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/19177123/
[14:16] <lutostag> which works and is using the above interface
[14:16] <lazyPower> so far, so good
[14:17] <lutostag> I don't see how to do a juju set relation, with the interface, should I PR something to https://github.com/bcsaller/juju-relation-pgsql.git or is there an easier way I can get away with it?
[14:18] <lutostag> (specifically for the extensions)
[14:19] <lazyPower> so i'm not sure what you mean by extensions, sorry for being daft
[14:20] <lazyPower> you typically relation-set on the conversation object, as most relations are UNIT scoped
[14:20] <lazyPower> so each unit participates, and reads/writes on the wire vs say, global/service where typically all units read, and one unit writes.
[14:20] <lazyPower> conv = self.conversation()   conv.set_remote({'foo': 'bar'})
[14:20] <lazyPower> as an example
[14:21] <lutostag> ah I see https://github.com/bcsaller/juju-relation-pgsql/blob/master/requires.py inherits RelationBase which gets me what I need
[14:21] <lazyPower> \o/ glad i was of no help but we got there anyway
[14:22] <lutostag> so I can just do a 'pgsql.set_remote(...)' like my paste above
[14:22] <lazyPower> yep
[14:22] <lazyPower> here's an example of the inverse being used
[14:22] <lazyPower> https://github.com/juju-solutions/interface-etcd/blob/master/peers.py#L63
[14:22] <lutostag> cool
[14:22] <lutostag> that helps me enough to run into the next wall. Thanks
[14:23] <lazyPower> lutostag - always happy to help. ping if stuck :)
[14:23] <mbruzek> cory_fu: https://github.com/juju/charm-tools/pull/232
[14:24] <cory_fu> mbruzek: https://github.com/juju/charm-tools/issues/233
[14:24] <cory_fu> mbruzek: 0.10.23 is actually somewhat broken
[14:24] <mbruzek> ah
[14:25] <mbruzek> What version would you like cory_fu?
[14:25] <cory_fu> The current version seems to work fine.  0.11.14
[14:25] <mbruzek> cory_fu: I see it in the bug
[14:26] <mbruzek> cory_fu: on it.
[14:26] <cory_fu> kjackal: Sorry for the delay.  I'm in daily-bigdata if you want to try to squeeze it in before the sync
[14:26] <cory_fu> mbruzek: Thanks!
[14:30] <mbruzek> cory_fu: I updated to 0.11.14 and ran the tests they still pass
[14:30] <mbruzek> cory_fu: updated PR 232
[14:31] <cory_fu> mbruzek: I should point out that they passed before. There's apparently no test coverage of that code-path
[14:31] <cory_fu> It would be nice to add one.  Is your branch on juju-solutions or your own fork?  If the latter, I can add a test case after our sync
[14:31] <mbruzek> I should point out that I am actually working on something else at the moment
[14:32] <cory_fu> mbruzek: Ha.  I was just offering to do it, but now you're being rude so maybe I won't.  ;)
[14:32] <mbruzek> cory_fu: my own fork, do or do not, there is no try.
[14:33] <cory_fu> mbruzek: Oh, well then I can't update the PR
[14:33] <mbruzek> You "could" it would just have to be against my fork
[14:33] <cory_fu> Sure, ok
[14:34] <mbruzek> chuck makes PRs against my branch often, in fact I have one here.
[14:34] <mbruzek> https://github.com/juju-solutions/layer-dockerbeat/pull/6
[14:34] <mbruzek> no
[14:34] <mbruzek> That is untrue
[14:34] <mbruzek> oh well
[14:36] <neiljerram> mbruzek, hi
[14:36] <mbruzek> neiljerram: hello
[14:37] <mbruzek> neiljerram: what is up?
[14:46] <marcoceppi> cory_fu mbruzek we can't put newer versions of hte library
[14:46] <marcoceppi> it has to match what's in Xenial, which is 0.10.23
[14:47] <cory_fu> marcoceppi: But that's broken
[14:47] <marcoceppi> we need to get it updated in Xenial then
[14:47] <neiljerram> mbruzek, sorry, just a mo - another conversation...
[14:47] <marcoceppi> which won't allow you to jump to an 0.11.X version
[14:47] <marcoceppi> so is there a 0.10.X version that has the fix?
[14:49] <neiljerram> mbruzek, hi again - one of my customers, using the new etcd charm, asked if it had any support for key rotation.
[14:50] <mbruzek> neiljerram: not that I know of, but that is something that could be built into the layer-tls
[14:50] <lazyPower> neiljerram - not today, but we can add that, in terms of generate new keys. There's no CA to speak of, to invalidate as they are self signed PKI
[14:51] <neiljerram> mbruzek, lazyPower - thanks, that's what I guessed.
[14:52] <mbruzek> neiljerram: We haven't had that type of requirement, I don't understand when you would want to rotate keys.
[14:52] <cory_fu> marcoceppi: Unfortunately, no.  It was fixed in 0.11.8.  We could instead change our code to use parser_ instead of parser and keep the current version (and pin it in 0.10.23)
[14:52] <lazyPower> mbruzek - key expiration, a key was compromised, ssl bug like heartbleed
[14:53] <neiljerram> mbruzek, Understood, and I don't really understand the requirement either.  (Except perhaps just 'as an extra precaution, if you think someone might be cracking your key'?  But that's vague.)
[14:54] <marcoceppi> cory_fu: we need to do that, then, unfortuantely
[14:55] <mbruzek> so we can discuss the details and look into a solution
[14:58] <lazyPower> neiljerram - since the keys are peer to peer exchanged, if they have access to the box you've got bigger problems than ssl keys :)   However I do understand the desire to be as secure as possible, and i've thought about this
[14:58] <neiljerram> mbruzek, of course.  If this is a firm requirement, I'll be happy to include you and lazyPower in the discussion.
[14:59] <lazyPower> i was going to hold off on implementing any of that until we got a proper CA setup, and could then issue revokations during key rotation, so they keys become invalid at the CA level across the deployment. but thats not on our roadmap at all for this cycle
[16:27] <bdx_> standing up the first juju infra for creativedrive today - starting with a beats/elastic/kibana stack in aws!
[16:28] <marcoceppi> bdx_: awww yeah, you using the beats-core bundle?
[16:28] <bdx_> lazyPower:^
[16:28] <bdx_> yea
[16:29] <bdx_> I gave a demo yesterday ... went really well
[16:29] <bdx_> I got the ok to bootstrap up!
[16:30] <bdx_> initially, the servers that will need the beats agents wont be part of a juju model
[16:30] <bdx_> so I will be manually adding them
[16:32] <bdx_> can I 'juju add-machine ssh:ubuntu@<ip>' using 'aws' as my cloud?
[16:32] <lazyPower> yep
[16:32] <lazyPower> so long as your controller can reach the nodes you're enlisting
[16:33] <lazyPower> and bdx_ - BAD ASS!
[16:33] <bdx_> sick
[16:33] <lazyPower> \o/
[16:33] <bdx_> game on
[16:33] <lazyPower> i mean, thats super awesome
[16:33] <bdx_> lazyPower: you are super awesome!
[16:33] <bdx_> thanks for all the beats man!
[16:33] <lazyPower> :D  bdx_  there's a development channel bundle with packetbeat and dockerbeat too
[16:33] <lazyPower> so if you feel intrepid, go for the gusto my friend. juju deploy cs:~contianers/beats-core --channel=development
[16:34] <lazyPower> without the typo in containers..
[16:34] <bdx_> ha
[17:49] <Prabakaran> kwmonroe, i just tested my sample charm and it is pending for long time on unknown state with the log  http://paste.ubuntu.com/19194830/ and code files are http://paste.ubuntu.com/19194662/ http://paste.ubuntu.com/19194666/ http://paste.ubuntu.com/19194668/ Kindly check and advise me on this issue
[20:12] <bdx_> hey whats up guys - few questions on 'aws' cloud in 2.0 if anyone is out there
[20:13] <bdx_> 1. Can one controller "manage" multiple aws accounts?
[20:14] <bdx_> 2. Are aws accounts user sensitive ?
[20:15] <magicaltrout> 1) not that I know of
[20:15] <magicaltrout> 2) they are controller sensitive if that helps. So you can run x controllers in the same account
[20:16] <magicaltrout> or I'm missing the point
[20:16] <bdx_> ^ e.g. does a user have an aws account associated with them, or possibly the inverse of this?
[20:16] <bdx_> magicaltrout: hey, thanks
[20:17] <bdx_> magicaltrout: say I have aws-account-ABC and aws-account-XYZ, is a single controller capible of distinguishing between the two
[20:17] <bdx_> ?
[20:18] <magicaltrout> not to my knowledge bdx_ when you bootstrap a controller you just pass it an AWS account
[20:18] <magicaltrout> I don't believe you could pass >1
[20:20] <bdx_> magicaltrout: e.g. credentials.yaml <- http://paste.ubuntu.com/19208532/
[20:20] <bdx_> ooh my bad ... aws1 and aws2 are individual "clouds"
[20:20] <magicaltrout> well you can have multiple aws accounts registered
[20:20] <magicaltrout> but you bootstrap to a single one
[20:21] <bdx_> magicaltrout: how do you make use of the subsequent accounts?
[20:22] <bdx_> lets say you want model-A to be aws-acct-A and model-B to be aws-acct-B ?
[20:22] <bdx_> would you set that in the model config?
[20:22] <magicaltrout> bootstrap a controller in aws-acct-B
[20:22] <bdx_> yup
[20:23] <bdx_> how does the controller in aws-acct-B know about aws-acct-A?
[20:23] <magicaltrout> doesn't
[20:23] <bdx_> bleh
[20:23] <bdx_> "well you can have multiple aws accounts registered  "
[20:23] <magicaltrout> i might be wrong, but i've never seen it happen
[20:24] <magicaltrout> i live a sheltered life though
[20:24] <bdx_> I thought you are the juju<->aws mastermind!
[20:24] <magicaltrout> haha
[20:25] <magicaltrout> yeah so i'm just prodding around the various help bits
[20:25] <magicaltrout> my understanding is you can have > 1 sets of credentials
[20:25] <magicaltrout> and you can specify those creds when bootstrapping an aws cloud
[20:25] <bdx_> lol
[20:25] <magicaltrout> but if you have 2 accounts and a controller in each, you can't talk between them
[20:26] <magicaltrout> that sorta falls in the to the multi cloud model stuff we discussed on the roadmap mailing list chain a while ago
[20:26] <bdx_> ok, so then why bootstrap with multiple accounts?
[20:26] <magicaltrout> I don't, you asked :P
[20:26] <magicaltrout> actually thats a lie, I do, but for different customers
[20:26] <magicaltrout> so customer 1 has an account, customer 2 has an account
[20:27] <magicaltrout> but in reality what you are asking for I also want, so then I can have account 3 which is an internal account that runs centralised monitoring and other bits and pieces
[20:27] <bdx_> ahh, yes, I see how that would be cool ... back to - "customer 1 has an account, customer 2 has an account"
[20:28] <bdx_> is your controller aware of both of those accounts?
[20:28] <magicaltrout> is your definition of controller and mine different?
[20:28] <magicaltrout> my controllers live within their respective accounts on AWS and know of nothing of each other
[20:29] <magicaltrout> I have a juju client which I can point in either direction
[20:30] <bdx_> ah, yes, but still you have a requirement of 1 "controller" (in the juju context) per aws account still then, right?
[20:30] <magicaltrout> that is correct
[20:30] <bdx_> lol
[20:30] <bdx_> nice
[20:30] <bdx_> but what you were getting at is the fact that you "can" bootstrap with multiple accounts
[20:31] <bdx_> ?
[20:31] <bdx_>  you just can't do anything with them following the bootstrap?
[20:31] <magicaltrout> I can run different accounts, you use the --credential operator i believe
[20:31] <magicaltrout> so I have multiple juju instances that run fine
[20:31] <magicaltrout> butu they are distinct and disparate from one another
[21:51] <terje> Hi, I've setup a working maas server on a baremetal system. Now, I'd like to deploy 2.0~beta7-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> on this same hardware in an lxc container.
[21:52] <terje> I can't figure out how that's done in the 2.x series.
[21:52] <terje> (juju 2.0~beta7-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>)