[15:02]  * barry waves
[15:02]  * slangasek waves
[15:02] <doko> hi
[15:02] <mvo> hi
[15:04] <jodh> yo
[15:04]  * stgraber waves
[15:04]  * xnox o/
[15:04] <sil2100> o/
[15:04] <caribou> o/
[15:04] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[15:04] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jun  5 15:05:17 2014 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:04] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:05] <slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
[15:05] <xnox> doko: we were discussing the sprint on mumble, the one on the slopes ;-)
[15:05] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox caribou infinity mvo bhuey sil2100 robru)
[15:05] <slangasek> robru sil2100 mvo bdmurray bhuey doko cjwatson caribou barry xnox slangasek stgraber infinity jodh
[15:05] <slangasek> hmm, no, let me reshuffle
[15:05] <xnox> slangasek: that's not random at all =)
[15:05] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox caribou infinity mvo bhuey sil2100 robru)
[15:06] <slangasek> doko cjwatson caribou bdmurray sil2100 bhuey mvo slangasek infinity barry robru xnox jodh stgraber
[15:06]  * barry takes a 15m nap
[15:06] <slangasek> better ;)
[15:06] <xnox> yeah =)
[15:06] <bhuey> folks
[15:06] <doko> - client sprint
[15:06] <doko> - mentoring for openjdk-7 builds
[15:06] <doko> - openjdk-8 packaging, now building everywhere except on armhf
[15:06] <doko> - GCC 4.7.4 updates
[15:06] <doko> - preparing GCC updates for trusty
[15:06] <doko> - python 2.7.7 release
[15:06] <doko> - python 3.4.1 uploads, ensurepip fixes
[15:06] <doko> - fix the last (?) python autopkg test failures
[15:06] <doko> (done)
[15:07] <cjwatson> Starting in on phone RTM archive preparations:
[15:07] <cjwatson>  - Discussion of plans with ubuntu-release/ubuntu-phone/launchpad-dev.
[15:07] <cjwatson>  - Started writing sketch derive-distribution script; not got very far yet.
[15:07] <cjwatson>  - Working on generalising proposed-migration a little to be able to handle multiple series, which will be immediately useful as a dry-run for stable releases and will be needed for RTM.
[15:07] <cjwatson>  - To do next: move cron.germinate out of Launchpad into ubuntu-archive-publishing to remove one more piece of Ubuntu-specific hardcoding; possibly pick up one or two other small LP tasks; make further progress on derive-distribution script.
[15:07] <cjwatson> Click:
[15:07] <cjwatson>  - Fixed broken getpwnam caching.
[15:07] <cjwatson>  - QA call.
[15:07] <cjwatson>  - Handled renaming of upstart-app-launch to ubuntu-app-launch.
[15:07] <cjwatson> Bootstrapped opencolorio/openimageio on armhf.
[15:07] <cjwatson> Fixed up samba build failures that were indirectly blocking many other builds in -proposed (notably unity8).
[15:07] <cjwatson> Sponsored biosdevname fixes (bug 1324558).
[15:07] <cjwatson> Sent MP fixing mir/arm64 build.
[15:07] <cjwatson> Scalingstack/buildd-manager call with IS and William.
[15:07] <cjwatson> Started on my backlog of ppc64el boot loader bugs in response to some PM nagging.
[15:07] <cjwatson> ..
[15:07] <doko> you're on vacation, go away ;-P
[15:08] <cjwatson> doko: who is?
[15:08] <doko> cjwatson, I thought you ...
[15:08] <cjwatson> nope
[15:08] <cjwatson> I took a swap day on Tuesday
[15:08]  * xnox has no idea when/who is on vacations after the new hr system got introduced
[15:09] <ogra_> you could use that to your advantage ;)
[15:09] <slangasek> the HR system has been fixed and no longer tells me I have the entire month of June approved as swap time ;-(
[15:10] <bdmurray> caribou: ?
[15:10] <caribou> oh, sorry
[15:10] <caribou> * Qemu/KVM crash analysis : many difficulties
[15:10] <caribou> * Custom preseed for HP soft RAID controller
[15:10] <caribou> (done)
[15:10] <bdmurray> client sprint
[15:10] <bdmurray> tested errors with django 1.5 (different fail)
[15:10] <bdmurray> modified daisy to log date and time in errors log
[15:10] <bdmurray> modified daisy to return OOPS ID when a crash is reported (bug 1326000)
[15:10] <bdmurray> modified whoopsie to log OOPS ID when a crash is reported (bug 1326000)
[15:11] <bdmurray> commited a fix for errors bug 1324924
[15:11] <bdmurray> fixed error with errors charm not restarting gunicorn
[15:11] <bdmurray> discussed https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1308-click-error-reporting with cjwatson
[15:11] <bdmurray> fixed LP: #1324589 regarding xdiagnose
[15:11] <bdmurray> submitted merge proposal fixing bug 1324833
[15:11] <bdmurray> ubuntu-release-upgrader bug triage
[15:11] <bdmurray> research into duplicates of upgrade bug 1324196 regarding python from PPA
[15:11] <bdmurray> ubuntu-release-upgrader SRU verification
[15:11] <bdmurray> ✔ done
[15:12] <sil2100> o/
[15:12] <sil2100> So, this week I've been mostly busy with CI Train landing coordination and fighting with various issues we had from the landings we made
[15:13] <sil2100> On Friday we landed a big feature, the split-out greeter from unity8, which generally caused many issues arising in our test infrastructure and image quality
[15:14] <sil2100> Long story short, this got fixed, but now we're still battling the results of another buggy landing - the upstart-app-launch rename to ubuntu-app-launch, which seems to have caused some issues
[15:15] <sil2100> In the meantime I also fixed some of the minor bugs in citrain code that we had and worked on some new features, like auto-updating changelog messages if there are dependency changes present
[15:15] <sil2100> This can be disabled and tries to be smart
[15:15] <sil2100> There were some more minor things going on, but probably got lost in my mind in-between the big firefighting we've been doing
[15:15] <sil2100> Just as a final note:
[15:16] <sil2100> We will be entering the so called TRAINCON-0 mode today again because there has been no promotions lately
[15:16] <robru> ooooh
[15:16] <sil2100> So this will mean that landings will be slowed down a bit
[15:16] <sil2100> Ok, I think that's all o/
[15:16] <slangasek> cool
[15:16] <slangasek> bhuey: care to say a few words about what you're working on?
[15:19] <mvo> shall I go?
[15:19] <slangasek> mvo: go ahead
[15:19] <mvo> hwe-eol:
[15:19] <mvo> - work on update-motd
[15:19] <mvo> system-image:
[15:19] <mvo> - lp:~mvo/ubuntu-system-image/lp1271684
[15:19] <mvo> click:
[15:19] <mvo> - code review
[15:19] <mvo> - meeting with QA
[15:19] <mvo> - lp:~mvo/click/coverage: enable coverage reporting (pretty tricky due
[15:19] <mvo>   to the nature of the gimock.py/LD_PRELOAD tests)
[15:19] <mvo> - lp:~mvo/click/integration-tests: wrote some high level
[15:19] <mvo>   integration tests
[15:19] <mvo> apt:
[15:19] <mvo> - by-hash discussion
[15:19] <mvo> - debug/fix lp #1274466 (cachedb corruption)
[15:19] <mvo> - debug/hopefully-fix lp #1324399 (dpkg pty stdin handling, tricky)
[15:19] <mvo> - backport https range-request handling to 12.04 (#1157943)
[15:19] <mvo> - check scope for SRU of #1324646 (reenable InRelease)
[15:19] <mvo> merges/syncs:
[15:19] <mvo> - pyrex, apt-xapian-index, newt, checksecurity, librest, etckeeper,
[15:20] <mvo>   celery, mutt
[15:20] <mvo> misc:
[15:20] <mvo> - sprint Malta
[15:20] <mvo> - lp:~mvo/update-notifier/use-apt-helper - use apt-helper
[15:20] <mvo>   download-file to ensure apt proxy settings are used
[15:20] <mvo> Next:
[15:20] <mvo> - HWE-EOL work
[15:20] <mvo> - new apt (if I get feedback from debian)
[15:20] <mvo> EOF
[15:21] <mvo> slangasek: you are next I believe :)
[15:21] <slangasek> correct!
[15:21] <slangasek> but I'm still reading yours :)
[15:21] <mvo> *weh* so I need to write less next time :)
[15:22] <robru> mvo, yes, please write less, you make us all look bad ;-)
[15:22] <sil2100> Reading is sooo last year
[15:22] <slangasek>  * sprinting in malta last week
[15:22] <slangasek>  * onboarding of the Landing Team
[15:22] <slangasek>  * discussions around plans for go (golang porting resourcing etc)
[15:22] <slangasek>  * discussions around juju in LTS
[15:22] <slangasek>  * discussions around system-image for !phones
[15:22] <slangasek>  * next things:
[15:22] <slangasek>   * UOS next week, please submit your blueprints
[15:22] <slangasek>   * more conversations about landing team in foundations
[15:22] <slangasek>   * trying to do the console-setup merge from Debian, to unblock initramfs-tools; this merge is slightly non-trivial
[15:22] <slangasek>   * starting the annual 360 review cycle
[15:23] <slangasek> (done)
[15:23] <slangasek> no infinity today
[15:23] <barry> is infinity here?
[15:24] <slangasek> barry's turn
[15:24] <barry> system-image: LP: #1262256; LP: #1286542; LP: #1301995; LP: #1251291; LP: #1279028; LP: #1294273; LP: #1207860; LP: #1324241 (ongoing); LP: #1249347; LP: #1271684; fixes for new psutils & tox; general bug triaging and debugging.  dialer-app py3 branch updating.  will probably be making a new release soon-ish.
[15:24] <barry> debuntu: six 1.6.1-2 (for wheels); LP: #1323328; virtualenv 1.11.6 (ongoing); pip 1.5.6-1; ensurepip testing and patch updates; debian bug #744145; requests 2.3.0-1; planning for SRU'ing the pyvenv/ensurepip fixes into trusty.
[15:24] <barry> other: building click packages meeting.  system-image on desktop meeting.  new hr system login problems and conference call.  concurrent.futures discussion with didrock; planning call w/doko
[15:24] <barry> done
[15:26] <robru> * been evaluating JS frameworks for a web UI I volunteered to build in Malta for the CI team
[15:26] <robru> * decided on nvd3 for charting, experimented with it by adding a chart to my CItrain backend page
[15:26] <robru> * http://people.canonical.com/~rbpark/citrain/ go here and hover over "x silos in use" to see it
[15:26] <robru> * CI train landings, breaking everything as fast and as often as possible ;-)
[15:26] <robru> ✔ done
[15:27] <xnox> * reviewing & merging upstart code:
[15:27] <xnox>  - cgroups to merge next (should be all ready, with all runtime asserts resolved)
[15:27] <xnox>  - umask fix generates test-suite regressions
[15:27] <xnox>  - all tests pass & builds pass on nonvirt builders
[15:27] <xnox> * startpar still hangs even with tasks patches (and on shut-down as well)
[15:27] <xnox>  - current plan to fix all tasks in the archive first and go from there
[15:27] <xnox> * malta sprint:
[15:27] <xnox>  - emulator reboot protocol with ubuntu-emulator (working with serguisens on this)
[15:27] <xnox>  - vte/gnome-terminal discussions around vte.sh (summary to send to laney/doko/mdslaur)
[15:27] <xnox> done
[15:27] <jodh> * foundations-1305-upstart-work-items:
[15:27] <jodh>   - cgroup+async support: Working with xnox to shake out final test bugs
[15:27] <jodh>     and get cgroup support landed.
[15:27] <jodh>   - Working on simplifying JobProcessData to remove nasty valid flag.
[15:27] <jodh> * upstart
[15:27] <jodh>   - Implemented lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/bug-1324096
[15:27] <jodh>   - Trying to squish odd test failure on lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/bug-1302117.
[15:27] <jodh> * misc
[15:27] <jodh>   - Released procenv 0.35 to fix FTBFS LP: #1324256 and associated tweaks:
[15:27] <jodh>     - lp:~jamesodhunt/ubuntu/utopic/pbuilder/dep8-fix
[15:28] <jodh>     - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sbuild/+bug/1325896
[15:28] <jodh>     - Discovered that "WARNING:" kernel oops's are ignored by apport
[15:28] <jodh>       (due to bug #346303). Seems surprising and the Kernel team didn't
[15:28] <jodh>       seem to be aware that this was still true.
[15:28] <jodh> 🀧
[15:28] <stgraber> LXC:
[15:28] <stgraber>  - Processed all outstanding pull requests and patches on the ML
[15:28] <stgraber>  - Wrote a bunch of patches for python3 binding issues and some longstanding usability issues
[15:28] <stgraber>  - Cherry-picked all the bugfixes into the stable branch in preparation for the 1.0.4 stable release
[15:28] <stgraber>  - Attempted to reproduce some kernel crashes related to netfilter & netns, sadly unsuccesfuly
[15:28] <stgraber>  - Fixed some LXC CI environment issue (including backport of a cgmanager bugfix)
[15:28] <stgraber>  - Worked on getting unity8+mir working under LXC, made some progress (lightdm spawns u-s-c in the container but unity8 then fails to start)
[15:28] <stgraber>
[15:28] <stgraber> System image:
[15:28] <stgraber>  - Discussed system-image on server a bit (there will be a session on it next week)
[15:28] <stgraber>  - Dropped some compatibility code from the server which was causing broken upgrade paths when doing two reverts in a row.
[15:28] <stgraber>
[15:28] <stgraber> Other:
[15:29] <stgraber>  - Went through all the SRU and NEW queues, spent a bit of time trying to get oepn-vm-tools-lts-trusty to land, currently stuck on cunit getting accepted in precise-proposed (can someone please do that?)
[15:29] <stgraber>  - Fixed some ISO tracker build request hang (mix of bad DB state and leftover processes on nusakan)
[15:29] <stgraber>  - HR stuff
[15:29] <stgraber> (DONE)
[15:30] <slangasek> bhuey: your turn
[15:30] <bhuey> here it goes
[15:30] <bhuey> Last week, Malta...
[15:30] <bhuey> -Merge new icedtea sources
[15:30] <bhuey> -Learned about LP source uploads and building
[15:30] <bhuey> -Set up crypto keys for signing packages
[15:30] <bhuey> -Set up and compiled the AMD64 changes on my local machine.
[15:30] <bhuey> -Fixed patch rejects involving the Sparc architecture zerovm
[15:30] <bhuey> -Looked at the bug tracker on LP and reviewed a few bugs to get a feel of what's going on
[15:31] <bhuey> This week...
[15:31] <bhuey> -Compiled just updated icedtea2.5/openjdk7 sources on a ppc64el porter machine
[15:31] <bhuey> -Created an account and uploaded all of the build files from that porter to lillypilly.canonical.com
[15:31] <bhuey> -Examine various revision control systems compatible with debian patching.
[15:31] <bhuey> -Looked at a build failure on LP regarding some no-execute bit logical in OpenJDK
[15:31] <bhuey> -Looks trivial to fix but I'm looking around the OpenJDK/IcedTea sources still.
[15:31] <bhuey> Next week...
[15:31] <bhuey> -Reviewing the TCK set up
[15:31] <bhuey> -Push for getting access to the internal VNP for a QA machine involved in TCK certification
[15:31] <bhuey> -Merge out local changed of IcedTea2.5 and OpenJDK to a new version of IcedTea
[15:31] <bhuey> -Upload packages to LP, resolve all build problems
[15:31] <bhuey> -Look at the Makefile and build system more. It's a monster
[15:32] <doko> I hope you don't fear monsters =)
[15:33] <bhuey> like you ? :)
[15:33] <slangasek> bhuey: is that the end?  (Convention is to say '(done)' or such at the end)
[15:33] <bhuey> done
[15:33] <slangasek> cool, thanks
[15:33] <slangasek> anyone have any questions over status?
[15:33] <bhuey> Sorry yeah, still learning
[15:34] <slangasek> no worries
[15:34] <slangasek> [TOPIC] UOS
[15:34] <slangasek> next week is the Ubuntu Online Summit (formerly vUDS)
[15:34] <slangasek> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1406
[15:34] <slangasek> everyone, please:
[15:35] <slangasek> a) make sure you're registered for it
[15:35] <slangasek> b) figure out if there are any sessions you want to propose for the week
[15:36] <slangasek> the format is being changed somewhat this time; you're encouraged to use it not just for discussion sessions, but for also presenting things that may already be decided but haven't been communicated out to the community
[15:36]  * jodh wonders if someone should change the registration default from attending physically :)
[15:36] <cjwatson> this is guiding towards registering in summit rather than in LP as before; is that right?
[15:36] <slangasek> (so e.g., things from Malta that we're definitely doing the work on and don't need discussion on because everything's clear, but we should let the community know we're doing)
[15:36] <slangasek> cjwatson: uh, not sure, sorry
[15:37] <xnox> cjwatson: i had to register twice.
[15:37] <xnox> once in launchpad and once in the "summit django"
[15:37] <cjwatson> joy, ok
[15:37] <xnox> i'm not sure if the two are linked anymore.
[15:37] <slangasek> I seem to remember having to register twice in the past
[15:37] <xnox> was summit rewritten again or something?!
[15:37] <slangasek> not that I've seen :)
[15:38] <slangasek> (if it has, I guess I'll get a rude awakening when I try to merge upstream for DebConf)
[15:38] <slangasek> so currently, sessions proposed for UOS are going into some kind of limbo that I can't schedule from
[15:38] <slangasek> I'll work with mhall119 to get that figured out today
[15:39] <slangasek> in the meantime, aside from http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1406/track/development/, the only session I know about that's pending is "system-images on !phone"
[15:39] <slangasek> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/development-1406-server-system-images
[15:39] <slangasek> maybe that gives y'all ideas of other things that need scheduled
[15:40] <slangasek> (or if not, I'll come around and let you know what you should talk about instead ;)
[15:40] <slangasek> questions?
[15:41] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[15:41] <slangasek> anything else? :)
[15:42] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[15:42] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jun  5 15:43:16 2014 UTC.
[15:42] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-06-05-15.05.moin.txt
[15:43] <mvo> thanks
[15:43] <slangasek> thanks, all!
[15:43] <barry> thanks!
[15:43] <bhuey> Sausage McMuffin with cheese
[15:43] <sil2100> Thanks!
[15:43] <bhuey> later
[15:43] <stgraber> thanks!
[15:43] <slangasek> heresy
[15:43] <slangasek> bacon egg and cheese biscuit
[15:44] <jodh> thanks
[15:44] <bhuey> my 2 for 1 beats your bacon
[15:44] <caribou> thanks
[15:48] <mhall119> slangasek: you still can't schedule anything?
[15:48] <slangasek> mhall119: no, I don't have any of the links to do so
[15:48] <slangasek> I was looking at http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1406/review/
[15:48] <mhall119> slangasek: are you logged in?  Does it display the correct username in the top of the page?
[15:48] <slangasek> which I can load but am also not given a link to anywhere
[15:48] <slangasek> yes
[15:48] <mhall119> slangasek: it's not in /review/ because it's already approved
[15:48] <slangasek> ok, fine
[15:49] <slangasek> but I still don't have any links for scheduling
[15:49] <mhall119> what links do you have in the "Quick Links" box?
[15:49] <slangasek> I don't have that box ;)
[15:50] <mhall119> but you're logged in?
[15:50] <slangasek> yes
[15:50] <mhall119> what username does it display?
[15:50] <slangasek> 'vorlon'
[15:51] <mhall119> slangasek: can you take a screenshot of http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1406/ for me?
[15:53] <slangasek> mhall119: hmm, need to figure out how to do that without PrintScreen
[15:53] <slangasek> (since I have a goofy Lenovo keyboard and have summarily remapped that key)
[15:54] <mhall119> slangasek: alt+F2: gnome-screenshot
[15:54] <slangasek> gnome-screenshot -i, methinks
[15:54] <mhall119> if you want interactive, sure :-P
[15:55] <slangasek> mhall119: http://people.canonical.com/~vorlon/no-really-im-logged-in.png
[15:56] <cjwatson> ok, for a change that ADSL outage was because somebody knocked a cable loose
[15:56] <cjwatson> sigh
[16:01] <mhall119> slangasek: you are somehow getting a mobile-friendly version of the site, no menu items and no Quick Links
[16:02] <mhall119> but that shouldn't happen when there's still space on the sites like your screenshot shows
[16:03] <mhall119> slangasek: in the short term can you increase the width of your browser window?
[16:06] <mhall119> anything above 960px should bring that box back
[16:07] <slangasek> mhall119: hahahathat's horrible
[16:07] <slangasek> ok
[16:07] <mhall119> slangasek: yeah, I don't remember who did that code,I think it was aquarius
[16:07] <slangasek> right, have the quicklinks now, thanks
[16:07] <mhall119> I can blame him anyway
[16:07] <mhall119> np
[17:00] <dholbach> hiya
[17:00] <pleia2> o/
[17:00] <elfy> o/
[17:01] <dholbach> how are you all doing?
[17:01] <elfy> pretty good thanks dholbach
[17:01] <YokoZar> Good day folks
[17:01] <dholbach> Who do we have here from the Ubuntu GNOME team and from the Ubuntu Core Apps/Phone folks?
[17:01] <dholbach> #startmeeting
[17:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jun  5 17:02:11 2014 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:01] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[17:02] <amjjawad> Hi, I'm here :)
[17:02] <dholbach> #chairs pleia2 elfy YokoZar czajkowski
[17:02] <dholbach> ok, let's start with the Ubuntu GNOME team then :)
[17:02] <dholbach> #topic Catching up with the Ubuntu GNOME team
[17:03] <dholbach> amjjawad, how are you doing?
[17:03] <dholbach> #chair pleia2 elfy YokoZar czajkowski
[17:03] <meetingology> Current chairs: YokoZar czajkowski dholbach elfy pleia2
[17:03] <amjjawad> dholbach, hi, thanks for asking I'm trying to be in good shape ... hope all is okay at your end :)
[17:04] <dholbach> amjjawad, yep, all's good - thanks... did you bring anyone else from the Ubuntu GNOME team? :)
[17:04] <dholbach> how are things going with Ubuntu GNOME? how was the 14.04 release?
[17:04] <amjjawad> Sadly, I did not. Tim is our head of developers but he is +10 GMT so he is sleeping right now
[17:04] <dholbach> ah yes, that makes a lot of sense :)
[17:05] <amjjawad> Ubuntu GNOME 14.04 LTS was a huge success. At first, it was not yet confirmed whether we should go for an LTS release or not. But we didn't give up and we have done all what we could to gain the title.
[17:06] <elfy> well done :)
[17:06] <amjjawad> Ubuntu GNOME was showing a huge improvement lately. I joined the team in July 2013 coming from 2-years with Lubuntu Team.
[17:06] <dholbach> Brilliant... did that leave you with any work for 14.10 or are things nice and easy now? :-)
[17:06] <amjjawad> My first challenge was to create a Wiki Area for Ubuntu GNOME which wasn't there. There was only one page. Now, we do have a full Wiki System.
[17:06] <amjjawad> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/OneStopPage
[17:07] <amjjawad> elfy, thanks :)
[17:07] <YokoZar> I just wanted to say that there's been a bit of a rift between upstream Gnome and Ubuntu since Unity, and you are one of our best hopes for bridging that and bringing the best software to users.  Thank you.
[17:07] <amjjawad> dholbach, we have put so much effort into 14.10 and I'm planning now as the other leader of Ubuntu GNOME to focus on the look and feel this cycle.
[17:07] <amjjawad> YokoZar, thanks :)
[17:08] <amjjawad> by the way, we do have a bit of problem with our users. Not all are happy :(
[17:08] <amjjawad> it is due to the fact that Ubuntu and Ubuntu GNOME can't use the latest GNOME version by default. It seems most of the users are looking for the latest release.
[17:09] <dholbach> amjjawad, I noticed for example that gnome-settings-daemon could now be updated again since many unity-related changes could be dropped (standard Ubuntu uses a forked version now)
[17:09] <amjjawad> I wrote this to clear things up: http://ubuntugnome.org/gnome-3-12/
[17:09] <dholbach> amjjawad, do you know of any other modules which can't be updated?
[17:10] <amjjawad> dholbach, if truth to be told, I handle everything within Ubuntu GNOME team except Artwork and Technical stuff
[17:10] <amjjawad> so I can't state anything unless I'm 100% sure
[17:10] <dholbach> amjjawad, ok... I was just wondering if these are issues which are worked out with the Desktop team
[17:11] <dholbach> sure, I didn't want you to start speculating :)
[17:11] <YokoZar> Yes, I'm particularly interested in cases where we basically forked gnome but still kept the package as "gnome-whatever" rather than splitting it off into a separate unity-specific one, as such things basically aren't Gnome but are blocking us from having a newer Gnome :)
[17:11] <amjjawad> Tim is the best one to answer this and sadly, he's not here
[17:11] <dholbach> in any case, I'm sure Tim knows the relevant desktop team members, but I'm happy to liaise if necessary
[17:11] <YokoZar> We don't need to discuss technical details too much, but it's a sort of thing that happened mainly because we as a distro were being a bit careless
[17:11] <amjjawad> Yes, I'll send him the log so if there is anything, he will contact the correct team for that :) thanks a lot for offering your help and support
[17:12] <dholbach> YokoZar, well... things like that happen if you have tight deadlines, etc.
[17:12] <amjjawad> dholbach, I agree
[17:12] <amjjawad> the 6-month cycle is a burden if truth to be told.
[17:12] <amjjawad> at first, you think you have the whole time and suddenly, you find out that you don't have enough time so things at the last month will be really crazy
[17:13] <amjjawad> but I guess that is the fun part of it :)
[17:13] <dholbach> I merely asked the question to see if there are known problems and if the CC can help with anything
[17:13] <dholbach> yeah, that's right :)
[17:13] <amjjawad> what also worth to mention that a year ago, Ubuntu GNOME had no sub-teams but now, we have full set of sub-teams :)
[17:14] <dholbach> amjjawad, did you see any enthusiasts in your user community who were interested in helping out in any way?
[17:14] <cprofitt> amjjawad: I enjoy Ubuntu gnome and want to that you and your team for putting the flavor together
[17:14] <amjjawad> dholbach, the CC people are doing an outstanding job so I'm 100& sure if there is anything, you won't be late :D
[17:15] <amjjawad> dholbach, one of my tasks is recruiting :D just like I did with Lubuntu
[17:15] <amjjawad> please see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/GettingInvolved
[17:15] <YokoZar> Has Ubuntu's (or Gnome's) release cadence crept slightly to make basing off newest Gnome in the future too difficult?
[17:15] <amjjawad> I keep this area as simple as possible and I always invite people to join and we're having many interested people to join and help :D
[17:16] <amjjawad> cprofitt, thanks a lot :) glad you like our system :D
[17:16] <dholbach> that looks very nice
[17:16] <dholbach> are you going to have a session at Ubuntu Open Summit next week? :)
[17:16] <amjjawad> by the way, I also applied for GNOME membership and got it :D
[17:16]  * mhall119 hugs dholbach for asking that :)
[17:16] <dholbach> mhall119, ^ I thought you'd plug this much earlier :-)
[17:16] <amjjawad> Sure, that would be a pleasure. Is this going to be on Google hangout?
[17:16] <mhall119> dholbach: I was being patient ;)
[17:17] <dholbach> haha
[17:17] <dholbach> mhall119, that'd be a first
[17:17] <mhall119> amjjawad: yes, Google+ on-air hangout with questions over IRC
[17:17] <amjjawad> Nice :D
[17:17] <amjjawad> I always enjoy that with balloons
[17:17] <mhall119> amjjawad: there are 3 tracks that might be of interest to you guys:
[17:17] <dholbach> amjjawad, yes, all sessions are hangouts and you can either (or both) do a demo session or a planning session - as you like it - http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2014/05/28/calling-for-ubuntu-online-summit-sessions/ has all the details
[17:17] <amjjawad> and it's been awhile since I have done one
[17:17] <mhall119> 1) Ubuntu Development: where you can talk about how Ubuntu GNOME is put together, make plans for the 14.10 release, etc
[17:18] <mhall119> 2) Community: Where you can tell people how and where to get involved
[17:18] <amjjawad> I've been sick lately and so weak so didn't catch up with all my emails. However, I'm charing now so should be back to my full power again hopefully soon :D
[17:18] <pleia2> amjjawad: glad you're on the mend
[17:18] <mhall119> 3) Users: Where you can show off your work, tell people the benefits of it, share tips and tricks to make using it easier/more productive, etc
[17:18] <mhall119> we would very much like to get more Users track sessions in
[17:19] <amjjawad> pleia2, hi and thanks :) I'm trying to be back to action asap :D
[17:19] <dholbach> amjjawad, excellent - good to hear your well again
[17:19] <dholbach> maybe a demo session and some public planning at UOS will attract some more helpers to the team :)
[17:19] <amjjawad> mhall119, I'm not 100% sure about #1 but #2 and #3 look very interesting :)
[17:20] <amjjawad> dholbach, thanks a lot :) you have been a great help before with something related to Lubuntu
[17:20] <amjjawad> and all of you are great people if truth to be told
[17:20] <mhall119> amjjawad: we would love to have them, UOS is next week though so we'll need to get them confirmed quickly, do you think you can pull some strings within the Ubuntu GNOME developers and community to see who could run them?
[17:20] <amjjawad> dholbach, yes, we're planning to change our website, and focus on the look and feel this release and also carry on with inviting more people to join us
[17:21] <mhall119> amjjawad: http://uds.ubuntu.com/getinvolved/propose-a-session/ has instructions for proposing the session, or you can ask dholbach, pleia2 or myself for help if you need it
[17:21] <amjjawad> mhall119, sure thing, how much time do I have? 2-3 days?
[17:21] <mhall119> amjjawad: first day is June 10, next Tuesday
[17:21] <mhall119> sessions are 1 hour long, you can have as many as you need
[17:22] <amjjawad> I'm sorry, I mean when should I get back to you about who will be in beside me
[17:22] <mhall119> amjjawad: today or tomorrow if at all possible, so we can get the schedule finished
[17:22] <amjjawad> I'll make sure to confirm with my team and get back to you but where should I send the email? or just contact anyone of you?
[17:22] <amjjawad> Okay, I will set my turbo mode then :D
[17:23] <mhall119> amjjawad: if you follow the instructions I linked to above we'll see it when it comes into summit.ubuntu.com
[17:23] <mhall119> thanks amjjawad :)
[17:23] <amjjawad> mhall119, I will bookmark the link and you're more than welcome :D
[17:23] <dholbach> amjjawad, do you have regular meetings within the team?
[17:24] <amjjawad> dholbach, I just sent today a proposal to have weekly meeting. This is the only thing that we so far failed to do :(
[17:24] <amjjawad> mainly, because Tim's time zone.
[17:24] <dholbach> of course, that makes sense
[17:24] <amjjawad> While I handle the non-dev stuff, it is highly important for him to cover the dev stuff
[17:24] <amjjawad> so, we mainly focus on the mailing list
[17:24] <dholbach> I hope you get around to organising it still, somehow
[17:24] <amjjawad> Yes, I'll put so much effort into this until I find a way to have a weekly meetings
[17:25] <amjjawad> this will reduce the time of waiting for a reply.
[17:25] <dholbach> Does anyone still have questions for Ali?
[17:25] <amjjawad> But I must say that Tim is the best developer that I have ever worked with for my 3-4 years within Ubuntu Communities
[17:25] <YokoZar> Speaking from a weekly meeter, I will definitely say it helps
[17:25] <amjjawad> He is always there when I need anything from him
[17:25] <dholbach> thanks a lot for putting Ubuntu GNOME together, so thanks a bunch for your hard work on it
[17:25] <amjjawad> YokoZar, big time yes
[17:26] <amjjawad> I'm also trying to get Ubuntu GNOME involves more with StartUbuntu
[17:26] <elfy> dholbach: not from me - I'm fine
[17:26] <amjjawad> dholbach, thanks a lot for all your support
[17:26] <mhall119> amjjawad: you guys are doing great work, I'm so glad to see GNOME getting this much attention and support again
[17:26] <amjjawad> all in all, Ubuntu GNOME is doing great but we need a lot more ... I can't stay still :D
[17:27] <pleia2> glad to hear it
[17:27] <amjjawad> mhall119, thanks a lot, appreciate that. We have small but active and great community
[17:27] <amjjawad> pleia2, thanks a lot and you have been a great support for StartUbuntu too
[17:27] <amjjawad> we hope to carry on with the good work
[17:27] <amjjawad> and above all, make our users as happy as possible
[17:28] <pleia2> indeed!
[17:28] <amjjawad> we can't make them all happy :D that's not possible as you know but if we could make the most of them happy, that is the target.
[17:29] <dholbach> amjjawad, all right... thanks a lot for coming to the meeting - keep up the good work! :)
[17:29] <amjjawad> I also enjoyed now and in the past to work with some of you and it is all great experience. Such experience is doing wonders in real life and with different other projects related to FOSS
[17:29]  * balloons waves to amjjawad
[17:30] <dholbach> #topic Catching up with the Ubuntu Phone and Ubuntu Core Apps folks
[17:30] <amjjawad> dholbach, thanks a million for you and everyone else for reading and for your time - much appreciated
[17:30] <dholbach> mhall119, do you have a list of people we could ping? :-)
[17:30] <mhall119> popey
[17:30] <mhall119> :)
[17:30] <amjjawad> balloons, hey, will catch up with you very soon hopefully
[17:30] <popey> oh hai
[17:30] <pleia2> hey popey
[17:30] <mhall119> popey: CC meeting to check in on the new app dev community and see how things are going
[17:30] <balloons> amjjawad, I've been following along.. Stay focused on yourself.. get healthy!
[17:31] <YokoZar> Hello popey
[17:31] <popey> Hi all.
[17:31] <elfy> hi popey
[17:31] <amjjawad> balloons, will sure do, thanks a lot
[17:31] <popey> How much pre-amble do you want? ☻
[17:31] <mhall119> popey: do you want to invite anybody in #ubuntu-app-devel in to this channel?
[17:31] <dholbach> I'm sure there's a lot of other phone/*-apps folks in here who are currently lurking and who have an opinion
[17:31] <mhall119> s/anybody/everybody/
[17:32] <dholbach> what is everyone's feeling about how things are going for a community which doesn't have an official device out there yet? :)
[17:32] <popey> We certainly can. I didn't put a call out because I didn't realise it was open to all.
[17:32] <popey> Wow, there's a setup.
[17:32] <pleia2> hehe
[17:33] <popey> Ok, so we started with zero developers and a call for people to contribute to core apps
[17:33] <popey> Core apps being some of the things we ship on the developer phone image, but which may or may not end up on a "real" phone image later in the year
[17:33] <popey> nik90: is one of our developers, welcome nik90
[17:33] <popey> We put a call out and lots of people replied
[17:34] <nik90> popey: hi everyone
[17:34] <elfy> hi nik90
[17:34] <popey> We have a small but focussed team working on the core apps
[17:34] <mhall119> hi nik90
[17:34] <popey> some of them were recently invited to a canonical sprint in malta
[17:34] <popey> which went very well, for numerous reasons. They all got to meet eachother, us, other teams (sdk, design, online services) etc
[17:34] <popey> And really sparked memories of UDS of yore.
[17:35] <popey> Everyone in a room together collaborating on getting stuff done.
[17:35] <popey> I think it helped to bring everyone together like that.
[17:35] <mhall119> so the Core Apps project is a new kind of collaboration between Canonical and Community, it's very much directed and integrated with the internal teams and objectives, but it's also entirely done in the open and almost entirely by community contributors
[17:35] <nik90> The malta sprint was amazing. Got to meet all the people you have been working with for more than a year.
[17:35] <popey> Indeed, it's very different from anything we've done before.
[17:35] <popey> Previously Ubuntu would pull together apps from the free software world and package it together.
[17:35] <pleia2> it's great to see that some community members were able to make it to a sprint, I know a lot of folks are really missing that face time
[17:36] <popey> Now we're making our own apps
[17:36] <mhall119> I think we (Canonical's Community team here) have learned a lot from the Core Apps, that we can apply to future collaborations with the community
[17:36] <popey> The only negative thing I have to say (which could be spun positively if I were that way inclined) would be that I wish we had more people like nik90 ☻
[17:37] <nik90> lol
[17:37] <popey> We just don't have enough resources. Finding great self-directed qml / js developers and designers is _hard_
[17:37] <dholbach> mhall119, popey, nik90: do you see things which could have gone better? ie being aware of upcoming design / platform changes or stuff like that?
[17:37] <mhall119> who wasn't even one of the original core apps devs, if I recall, he picked up the Clock when it didn't have any active developers anymore and then become one of the top leaders of the Core Apps project itself
[17:38] <YokoZar> I'm particularly interested in things we might be able to fix due to communication
[17:38] <mhall119> dholbach: recruitment was hard, and still is, we've had a lot of the initial developers leave before the apps were done and have had to keep recruiting more
[17:38] <popey> The top 3 things on my wishlist are:- More (excellent) designers to design beautiful apps. More developers to implement the apps. Improvements to the SDK to make the previous one easier to do.
[17:39] <mhall119> I'd +1 that
[17:39] <popey> YokoZar: In terms of communication...
[17:39] <nik90> YokoZar: I think the recent engineering ubuntu-on-air hangouts really help the community members know what's going on. Thats quite a improvement from before
[17:39] <popey> We have weekly IRC meetings with the team, although more recently we switched to hangouts.
[17:39] <mhall119> having a bigger/stronger/active-er(?) design community would have helped many times over the past year
[17:39] <popey> and as nik90 says we have also a cross-app hangout on air regularly to collaborate, sync up, announce, call for help etc
[17:40] <dholbach> nice... the cross-app hangout sounds like a good idea
[17:40] <popey> Yeah, nik90 was mainly behind that and has been driving it.
[17:40] <mhall119> having the core apps devs in Malta to sit down at the same table as the Canonical designers seemed to really help open up that communication channel too
[17:40] <popey> Same with SDK!
[17:40] <nik90> mhall119: +1
[17:40] <popey> nik90 brought a list of topics to discuss with the SDK guys.
[17:40] <mhall119> well, we won't mention "The List"
[17:40] <mhall119> or, maybe we will....
[17:41] <popey> The core apps developers are really the first users of the SDK
[17:41] <nik90> I think all the members who attended the sprint can now comfortably ping the SDK, platform canonical employees on IRC and discuss stuff freely.
[17:41] <popey> They are finding all kinds of issues, and reporting them professionally to the SDk team.
[17:41] <mhall119> at any rate, I think the communication channels there will remain much improved because of that face time
[17:41] <popey> without them using the SDK on a daily basis we wouldn't be where we are. That feedback has been invaluable.
[17:41] <mhall119> +1000 on that
[17:41] <popey> Also welcome ahayzen_ who is one of the developer on our awesome Music app.
[17:41] <ahayzen_> o/
[17:41] <nik90> hey andrew
[17:42] <popey> ahayzen_: I realise you've only just arrived, we're just saying how awesome you are, no biggie ㋛
[17:42] <dholbach> and in general... what do you feel are the things which could be improved from an organisational point of view? where do you feel it's still hard for somebody to join the community?
[17:42] <ahayzen_> popey, heh thanks you guys are more awesome though :)
[17:42] <popey> One thing we have tried to do is increase the velocity of getting merges landed in trunk
[17:43] <cprofitt> all sounds very good popey
[17:43] <popey> We have had some lounge around for weeks, and not get landed. That is being addressed. We're constantly on top of them to make sure blockers are unblocked, and fixes land in the phone image
[17:43] <mhall119> dholbach: I think it's just a general case now of motivating people do contribute to these projects, maybe focusing on providing some low-hanging fruit for the casual contributor to get started on
[17:43] <popey> We have also had some drive-by contributions
[17:44] <popey> It's great to see new people come by and fix bitesize bugs
[17:44] <ahayzen_> the hardest thing for somebody joining is trying to find where to start within a coreapp
[17:44] <popey> and we try to encourage them to continue to contribute
[17:44] <popey> but it's difficult to do that without pouncing on them and scaring them away
[17:44] <popey> (we have done that)
[17:44] <dholbach> do we have drive-by contributions to Ubuntu phone (apart from the core apps) as well?
[17:45] <popey> I don't know the answer to that.
[17:45] <popey> I did a drive by contribution to the SDK recently after someone mentioned to me on irc that something was broken, if that counts ㋛
[17:45] <popey> We also lose some people.
[17:45] <popey> We don't do "exit interviews" so it's hard to know exactly why people leave
[17:46] <mhall119> dholbach: getting things into the SDK proper is more challenging, because any additions need to go through design and approval
[17:46] <mhall119> specifically any new APIs
[17:46] <popey> Sometimes it's the usual family reasons, people getting busy with real life, which is of course perfectly acceptable.
[17:46] <popey> Other times it's more serious - one of the core apps developers is in Ukraine, where things are "tense" right now.
[17:46] <dholbach> oh... not only into the SDK - I was more wondering about other parts of what "make the phone"
[17:47] <popey> I honestly don't know. I don't look at the merges for parts of the stack I am not responsible for really.
[17:47] <mhall119> dholbach: I think those are just more technically challenging, there's a lot of pieces that all have to work together
[17:47] <popey> What I have encouraged people to do is just test the apps out and email me directly when they have a problem
[17:48] <YokoZar> drive-by contributions are fantastic, yet surprisingly rare in a lot of open source
[17:48] <popey> to overcome the friction barrier of bug filing
[17:48] <mhall119> dholbach: I'd like to improve the onramp to contributing to Unity 8,but that's out of scope for this topic
[17:48] <popey> Sometimes people don't know if a problem is a bug or a design feature.
[17:48] <nik90> The hackathons were awesome in getting drive-by contributions
[17:48] <popey> Yes!
[17:48] <nik90> we should keep continuing that tradition
[17:48] <popey> Hackathons were good for identifying and fixing bitesize bugs
[17:49] <popey> I'd like us to have an in-person hackathon at some point too, maybe in London.
[17:49] <nik90> the thing with contributing to unity 8 or other "system apps" is that the designs are not out there like the core apps designs for instance
[17:49] <popey> True.
[17:49] <popey> They are there if you ask.
[17:49] <popey> But you have to go and ask for them.
[17:49] <ahayzen_> nik90, i started contributing the music-app from one of those hackweeks ... otherwise i wouldn't be here
[17:50] <nik90> ahayzen_: ooh I didnt know that..I believe riccardo also started like that
[17:50] <ahayzen_> +1 to hackathons
[17:50] <popey> Ok, thats good feedback, I'll get another one organised!
[17:51] <mhall119> nik90: I think it more a case of the designs not existing at all, not just not being public
[17:51] <popey> We also want to reach out at other non-ubuntu events to try and recruit people to help on core apps.
[17:51] <nik90> mhall119: true
[17:51] <popey> Thing is, design are very approachable, and if they have stuff they share it.
[17:52] <popey> But because they work differently from the rest of ubuntu (mostly in one office) their work patterns differ from ours
[17:52] <mhall119> yeah, we just need more of them
[17:52] <popey> Where we share stuff over bzr with our friends in the community, they get up from their desk and walk over to another designer.
[17:52] <dholbach> do you have people helping out with testing of system and core apps regularly?
[17:52] <popey> We did find our regular hangouts with design team people were very helpful for the core apps developers
[17:53] <popey> dholbach: not formally.
[17:53] <popey> Well, that's not true
[17:53] <popey> We have a small team of "dogfooders"
[17:53] <popey> That's mostly me, davmor2 and toykeeper
[17:53] <popey> We test a bunch of the apps every day.
[17:53] <mhall119> dholbach: by "testing" do you mean using, or running autopilot tests?
[17:53] <dholbach> I just thought that if I was interested, and had no idea what to do, I would probably say "I can test stuff and file bugs"
[17:53] <popey> But we don't cover every use case, we don't have people being monkeys, smacking things with hammers.
[17:54] <popey> One of the problems is that of hardware
[17:54] <popey> Testing Ubuntu desktop is easy, you can find a pc (or vm) to install it on
[17:54] <popey> With Ubuntu for phones, we really need on-device testing
[17:54] <nik90> actually popey I am sure there are people out there who might not be able to code but might be interested in just testing stuff. We could help get started with the emulator and test core apps on that.
[17:54] <dholbach> so testing on an emulator is not much help?
[17:54] <popey> real world stuff like walking down the street picking up a call while listening to music and taking notes ☻
[17:55] <popey> dholbach: not really.
[17:55] <popey> I mean, there's some testing you can do.
[17:55] <popey> But the real world stuff really needs a device
[17:55] <popey> and we are short on those internally, let alone externally
[17:55] <mhall119> dholbach: I think that for the things we can write down for people to do, we can write an autopilot test to do automatically
[17:56] <popey> I frequently take my phone to the pub and hand it to people and ask them to play with it
[17:56] <popey> I also take a notebook and later file bugs on their behalf
[17:56] <mhall119> I give it to kids :)
[17:56] <popey> some would say I do the same ㋛
[17:56] <mhall119> heh
[17:56] <dholbach> haha, great :-)
[17:56] <popey> But again it's hard if I have a phone logged in as me
[17:57] <popey> I dont want to hand a phone to someone which is signed into fb / twitter / gmail on my accounts
[17:57] <popey> so there's a bit of preparation required to anonymise the phone first
[17:57] <dholbach> sounds like we need a guest session for the phone ;-)
[17:57] <popey> so it's quite a bit of effort.
[17:57] <popey> haha!
[17:57] <mhall119> having that Guest session on the phone would be helpful
[17:57] <nik90> I thought u had more than 1 device popey
[17:57] <popey> i do
[17:57] <nik90> among the lucky ones
[17:57] <popey> and thats still not enough! :D
[17:57] <nik90> :)
[17:57] <dholbach> good work everyone :-)
[17:58] <popey> Any other questions from the cc?
[17:58] <dholbach> is there anything you feel the CC could generally help with?
[17:58] <popey> help us get more developers ☻
[17:58] <dholbach> does anybody else still have any more questions? I'm all set
[17:58] <popey> Oh, another thing I didn't make clear...
[17:58] <dholbach> popey, do you have enough sessions at UOS which might attract new team members? :)
[17:58] <mhall119> none from me
[17:59] <mhall119> dholbach: he just got another email about that :)
[17:59] <popey> oh, nvm actually.
[17:59] <elfy> I'm good - was nice to be reading all that - thanks popey nik90 ahayzen_
[17:59] <popey> dholbach: good idea.
[17:59]  * dholbach hugs you all
[17:59] <mhall119> or is about to, I havne't hit "send" yet
[18:00] <popey> Thanks ☻
[18:00] <dholbach> excellent! thanks a lot everyone :-)
[18:01] <popey> Thanks.
[18:01] <dholbach> #topic Any other business
[18:01] <dholbach> looks like we don't have anything else on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[18:01] <dholbach> does anyone else have a topic to discuss?
[18:01] <pleia2> we're putting out a renewed call for membership board members who can attend meetings at 12:00 for nominees in APAC (and Europe)
[18:01] <pleia2> will publish on fridge soon :)
[18:02] <pleia2> we're pretty Americas heavy, so if you're in other regions, please consider it :)
[18:02]  * mhall119 will re-post on social media
[18:02] <elfy> +1 to that :)
[18:02] <dholbach> yeah, if you're living in any other timezone which can easily make meetings at 12 UTC, consider and/or mail your loco team :)
[18:03] <pleia2> I think that's all I had
[18:03] <dholbach> Anyone else? :)
[18:03] <mhall119> nope
[18:04] <elfy> nope
[18:04] <pleia2> thanks dholbach
[18:04] <dholbach> #endmeeting
[18:04] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jun  5 18:04:43 2014 UTC.
[18:04] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-06-05-17.02.moin.txt
[18:04] <dholbach> thanks a lot everyone!
[18:04] <elfy> ty dholbach
[18:04] <mhall119> thanks everyone
[20:58] <AlbertoSN> Today I am applying!
[20:58] <AlbertoSN> :o
[22:00] <s-fox> who is here for the meeting?
[22:00] <spineau> o/
[22:00] <AlbertoSN> Me, for example
[22:01] <s-fox> Okay, great. Just give us a few minutes please. sorry for the wait :)
[22:04] <s-fox> can the  board members here for the meeting please let their presence known. thank you
[22:05] <PabloRubianes> o/
[22:05] <Pendulum> hiya
[22:05] <s-fox> cjohnston ?
[22:05] <cjohnston> hi
[22:05] <s-fox> okay, great. i shall start :)
[22:06] <s-fox> #startmeeting 2200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board
[22:06] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jun  5 22:06:26 2014 UTC.  The chair is s-fox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[22:06] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[22:06] <s-fox> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the 2200 UTC meeting for June 5, 2014.
[22:06] <s-fox> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
[22:06] <s-fox> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
[22:06] <s-fox> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
[22:06] <s-fox> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
[22:06] <s-fox> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
[22:06] <s-fox> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
[22:07] <s-fox> #voters s-fox PabloRubianes Pendulum cjohnston
[22:07] <meetingology> Current voters: PabloRubianes Pendulum cjohnston s-fox
[22:07] <s-fox> Alright, first up is spineau. Please introduce yourself :)
[22:07] <spineau> Hello, I'm Sylvain Pineau (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SylvainPineau). I live in France. I'm a perl/python developer and Ubuntu addict since 2006
[22:07] <spineau> My contributions to the Ubuntu Community:
[22:07] <spineau> I'm one of the main developers of CheckBox (the System Testing application of Ubuntu)
[22:07] <spineau> I wrote several tests that have been used by the Ubuntu Friendly community project (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly)
[22:07] <spineau> I led a session during vUDS 1311 detailing the plan to use a new core (http://plainbox.readthedocs.org) and a new UI built using the Ubuntu SDK (QML) for 14.04
[22:08] <spineau> I also contributed to various test frameworks over the past years (Mago, Xpresser) to enhance the overall quality of Ubuntu releases
[22:08] <spineau> I'm a 10k+ user on Ask Ubuntu (http://askubuntu.com/users/32239/sylvain-pineau) where I (amongst other things) try to help people creating Ubuntu Touch applications using the SDK
[22:08] <spineau> I'm (so far :)) the top answerer in both QML and ubuntu-sdk tags (see http://askubuntu.com/tags/qml/topusers and http://askubuntu.com/tags/ubuntu-sdk/topusers)
[22:08] <spineau> 4 Ubuntu members left their testimonials (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SylvainPineau#Testimonials) but are not able to join us (different timezones, it's midnight here in CEST)
[22:08] <s-fox> #voters iulian
[22:08] <meetingology> Current voters: PabloRubianes Pendulum cjohnston iulian s-fox
[22:10] <s-fox> Thank you for the intro :)
[22:12] <s-fox> The board is just having a quick char spineau , please do not be alarmed - Nothing bad :)
[22:12] <spineau> ok
[22:12] <s-fox> Alright, I think we're good to go straight to a vote
[22:13] <s-fox> #vote spineau for ubuntu membership
[22:13] <meetingology> Please vote on: spineau for ubuntu membership
[22:13] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[22:13] <s-fox> +1
[22:13] <meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
[22:13] <cjohnston> +1
[22:13] <meetingology> +1 received from cjohnston
[22:13] <iulian> +1
[22:13] <meetingology> +1 received from iulian
[22:13] <Pendulum> +1
[22:13] <meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
[22:13] <s-fox> ^ PabloRubianes
[22:13] <s-fox> sorry PabloRubianes
[22:14] <s-fox> #endvote
[22:14] <meetingology> Voting ended on: spineau for ubuntu membership
[22:14] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[22:14] <meetingology> Motion carried
[22:14] <s-fox> Congratulations :D
[22:14] <spineau> Thanks A LOT
[22:14] <iulian> Congrats spineau and welcome aboard.
[22:14] <iulian> (Added to ~ubuntumembers.)
[22:14] <spineau> I can't believe it
[22:14] <PabloRubianes> +!
[22:14] <s-fox> Yes, welcome indeed :)
[22:14] <s-fox> thanks iulian
[22:15] <s-fox> next up is AlbertoSN
[22:15] <s-fox> Please introduce yourself
[22:16] <AlbertoSN> Good night everybody
[22:16] <AlbertoSN> My name is Alberto Salvia Novella
[22:16] <AlbertoSN> I'm currently coordinating the One Hundred Papercuts project
[22:17] <AlbertoSN> Which is a project that gathers bitesize bugs and makes them easily fixable by anyone
[22:18] <AlbertoSN> I think the best is you just read my wikipage and ask me any doubts you'll have, as there're links to each contribution I have done
[22:18] <AlbertoSN> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/es20490446e
[22:18] <AlbertoSN> Thank you!
[22:19] <s-fox> Is anyone here to support AlbertoSN ?
[22:20] <AlbertoSN> No, there isn't:  nick-athens30 was to attend, but he finally preferend just to leave a comment
[22:21] <s-fox> Okay, no worries
[22:22] <s-fox> sorry for the wait AlbertoSN , just a little discussion going on. again as before - nothing bad or to be alarmed by
[22:23] <s-fox> we're good now.
[22:23] <AlbertoSN> :)
[22:23] <s-fox> #vote AlbertoSN for memebship
[22:23] <meetingology> Please vote on: AlbertoSN for memebship
[22:23] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[22:23] <cjohnston> +1
[22:23] <meetingology> +1 received from cjohnston
[22:23] <s-fox> +1
[22:23] <meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
[22:23] <PabloRubianes> +1
[22:23] <meetingology> +1 received from PabloRubianes
[22:23] <Pendulum> +1
[22:23] <meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
[22:23] <iulian> +0
[22:23] <meetingology> +0 received from iulian
[22:24] <s-fox> #endvote
[22:24] <meetingology> Voting ended on: AlbertoSN for memebship
[22:24] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
[22:24] <meetingology> Motion carried
[22:24] <s-fox> congratulations AlbertoSN
[22:25] <AlbertoSN> Thank you very much
[22:25] <spineau> congrats AlbertoSN
[22:25] <cjohnston> congrats to both of you. Thanks for chairing s-fox
[22:25] <Pendulum> congrats AlbertoSN :)
[22:25] <iulian> I've just added him to ~ubuntumembers as well.
[22:25] <iulian> Thanks for chairing Foxy.
[22:25] <AlbertoSN> Hughs for everyone!
[22:25] <s-fox> THank you iulian , saves me a job
[22:25] <pleia2> btw in case you haven't seen, we put out a further call for 12:00 board nominees, so hopefully you'll be restaffed soon :) http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2014/06/05/renewed-call-for-1200-utc-membership-board-nominees/
[22:26] <iulian> ... and my cuppa tea got cold now.
[22:26] <pleia2> so please feel free to share this link far and wide so we can get there
[22:26] <s-fox> I'll send out the meeting summary in the morning, unless someone wants to beat me to it
[22:26] <s-fox> pleia2,  +1 , although this might be the wrong audience since the people here are around at 22:00 :)
[22:27] <s-fox> Anyway, thanks for coming all :)  Have a great day
[22:27] <s-fox> #endmeeting
[22:27] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jun  5 22:27:45 2014 UTC.
[22:27] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-06-05-22.06.moin.txt
[22:27] <AlbertoSN> Well, here it's midnight
[22:27] <AlbertoSN> So I can go to spleep now :)
[22:27] <spineau> indeed, bye everyone
[22:27] <AlbertoSN> Bye bye
[22:27] <pleia2> s-fox: not the wrong audience, a few of you folks are expiring too and we temporarily extended memberships until we finish this
[22:28] <s-fox> It is nearly midnight here too for me AlbertoSN . Time for me to go and get some sleep :)
[22:28] <pleia2> so I wanted to let you know, and ask if you could help :)
[22:28] <AlbertoSN> Who are you asking to?


[00:11] <jelmer> mtaylor: You mean if you abort a commit halfway through?
[00:12] <mtaylor> mtaylor: no, I mean if you run bzr uncommit
[00:12] <mtaylor> carap
[00:12] <mtaylor> jelmer: although I suppose aborting commit halfway through might be interesting too
[00:34] <thatch> dlee: are the branches related?
[00:35] <jelmer> mtaylor: maybe in bzr_log.*~ in the cwd
[00:40] <dlee> thatch: Yes, one formed the other at some point.
[00:41] <dlee> Actually, this particular situation came from a cvsps-import:  I think the "dgl" branch was a CVS vendor import, and "head" was used from then on.  But dgl contains 48 revisions in bzr, and I want to see if anything diverged, because I actually don't *know* that "dgl" was an import branch.
[00:42] <dlee> But I asked a generic question because I've wanted this sort of comparison in less peculiar circumstances. :)
[01:19] <LeMec> hi! can somebody remember me where is this chat logged? I have discussed in the past here about Mac support
[01:19] <LeMec> and I would like to check if there was something more said on the topic
[01:28] <LeMec> well, I've seached around and it looks like except the lucky win users and those using the Leopard distro there is no nice installer
[01:31] <mtaylor> LeMec: there's an IRC link on the inside.mysql.com homepage
[01:31] <mtaylor> LeMec: I believe it links to the place where the logs are
[01:31] <mtaylor> LeMec: nevermind... wrong IRC window
[01:31] <mtaylor> :)
[02:00] <thatch> LeMec: bzr.arbash-meinel.com/irc_log/bzr/ last I knew for logs
[02:01] <LeMec> thatch: it works thanks! wouldn't it be nice to have this link in the topic? so newbies are seeing it immediately?
[02:01] <thatch> LeMec: I think it's because they're unofficial?
[02:02] <LeMec> does it really count? I think unofficial is still better than nothing, isn't it?
[03:06] <Verterok> thatch, LeMac: I think http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ is what you are looking for ;)
[11:12] <Qhestion> is there a command to merge a local branch into a foreign branch (!)
[11:12] <Qhestion> foreign=remote
[11:14] <Odd_Bloke> Qhestion: You could create a local copy of the remote branch, perorform the merge and then push it to the remote location.
[11:14] <Odd_Bloke> *perform
[11:14] <Qhestion> too complicated.
[11:14] <Qhestion> well, i would just use a checkout but...
[11:15] <Odd_Bloke> Qhestion: It's three commands, that's not especially complicated...
[11:15] <Qhestion> why three? why not one?!
[11:15] <Qhestion> i am working from 3 computers on the same thing. problem is, the path to the central repository changes.
[11:16] <Qhestion> so i would have to unbind/bind for nearly every commit.
[11:16] <Qhestion> (once a day. not a problem, but definitely not elegant)
[11:16] <Odd_Bloke> Because merging into a remote repository where you can't fix conflicts is a Bad Idea.
[11:16] <Odd_Bloke> s/repository/branch/
[11:16] <Qhestion> hmm sounds logical.
[11:35] <ale666> hi guys, i have just installed bzr. where is the revision downloaded?
[11:35] <ale666> and i have downloaded a branck of a project but i dont know where it is
[11:54] <thumper> ale666: what did you type?
[11:55] <thumper> ale666: sorry, 1am here and time to sleep
[13:01] <ale666> good night :) i figured it out. bzr is so nice!
[17:44] <JordanC> Ahoy
[17:45] <JordanC> Are there windows-based bzr clients?
[17:45] <JordanC> (That have been released)
[17:46] <Peng> Windows-based?
[17:48] <JordanC> Yup
[17:50] <mtaylor> well, there's bzr
[17:51] <mtaylor> which works on windows. :)
[17:51] <JordanC> GUI based? :P
[17:52] <mtaylor> I think someone is working on a tortoisebzr but I really don't know
[17:53] <mtaylor> there's also a visual studio plugin... but again, I'm not sure of the status
[17:59] <Peng> There are multiple GUI plugins. QBzr, TortoiseBzr, bzr-gtk.
[18:03] <JordanC> QBzr is wierd
[18:03] <JordanC> But it works :D
[18:03]  * Peng shrugs.
[18:04] <Peng> I don't use any of them.
[18:04] <Peng> Partly because I'm happy with the command line, partly because I don't want to figure out how to install PyQt and whatnot. :P
[18:04] <luks> Peng, apt-get install python-qt4 :)
[18:06] <luks> JordanC, the current qbzr is not intented to be a "bzr gui", just a tool to help with tasks where the command line is not enough. is that the weird part, or is it something else?
[19:41] <mtaylor> when I send a merge directive, it lists target_branch: and source_branch: in the human readable comments
[19:41] <mtaylor> if I open the revision bundle, are those stored within? Or do I need to parse them from the comments?
[19:42]  * mtaylor guesses the second, but I thought I'd check
[19:44] <beuno> mtaylor, bundles are generated with the commit's metadata, including the comment
[19:45] <jelmer> mtaylor: The merge directive parser should be able to return them to you
[19:45]  * dato would *guess* that the source branch is not in the bundle
[19:46] <mtaylor> jelmer: know where I'd look for the parser? is that in merge_directive.py ? :)
[19:46] <jelmer> the source branch can be in the bundle because you should be able to send a merge directive without a patch
[19:46] <mtaylor> mmm right
[19:47] <jelmer> yes
[19:47] <mtaylor> so I
[19:47] <jelmer> You can call MergeDirective.from_lines()
[19:47] <mtaylor> ha! I was just about to ask if that was the one. great! thanks
[19:50] <mtaylor> ROCK
[19:50] <mtaylor> that's fan-frickin-tastic
[19:50] <jelmer> :-)
[20:08] <lifeless> thumper: reminding you to mail me :)
[20:25] <thumper> lifeless: ta
[20:26] <jelmer> 'morning lifeless
[20:27] <jelmer> lifeless: what sort of format changes do you plan to work on?
[20:30] <lifeless> jelmer: journalled inventories for now
[20:30] <lifeless> theres a ton of stuff in the queue; but I'll probably take a break from bzr at some point ;)
[20:31] <lifeless> file_ids are a big bugbear right in my target sights
[20:50] <jelmer> hmm, that's a word I had to look up :-)
[20:51] <jelmer> it would be awesome if file ids could be made more flexible or replaced by sometihng better
[20:52] <lifeless> path tokens
[20:52] <lifeless> is my current plan
[20:53] <lifeless> basically memoising the revision-path graph of a path object, allowing for splits and joins (allowing one requires the other for reversability)
[20:54] <jelmer> ah, nice. I didn't know path tokens were that concrete already
[20:55] <jelmer> I really need to finish that shallow branches code as I have been promising for the last half a year
[20:55] <Peng> Would this help with copies?
[20:55] <jelmer> Peng: yes
[20:56] <lifeless> Peng: by 'help' do you mean 'allow' ? :)
[20:56] <Peng> lifeless: Heh, yes.
[20:56] <Peng> That sounds good.
[20:56] <Peng> What are path tokens?
[20:57] <lifeless> Peng: yes, and also the reverse - combining two files that were separate into one.
[20:57] <lifeless> or directories for that matter.
[20:57] <Peng> That sounds nice.
[20:57] <lifeless> path tokens are the code name I gave the concept
[20:57] <Peng> How's it work?
[20:59] <lifeless> I mailed the list a whlie back
[21:00] <lifeless> we ended up talking about whether copies were desirable
[21:03] <thumper> lifeless: what is Branch format 6?
[21:03] <thumper> is that the tags one?
[21:04] <Peng> Yes.
[21:04] <thumper> Peng: ta
[21:17] <thumper> if I have a repository on one machine that is corrupt by missing a knit index file
[21:18] <thumper> how can I get a client to push enough to fix it?
[21:18] <lifeless> you can't
[21:19] <lifeless> we only check references as we push, so to push everything you need to remove all the revisions
[21:19] <thumper> I was going to move the .bzr directory
[21:19] <thumper> a repush would fix yes?
[21:40] <dlee> thumper: repush?
[21:41] <thumper> dlee: what I ment was push again
[21:41] <dlee> lol ok...thought this might be another hidden command :)
[21:41] <dlee> ... there being a remerge and all
[21:56] <Peng> 'bzr help criss-cross' needs to be updated for LCA merge, doesn't it?
[22:05] <j1mc> hi all - i was wondering if bzr revision control would even work on openoffice docs.  does anyone know?
[22:13] <Peng> Well sure, it can store any sort of file.
[22:13] <Peng> No diffing or merging though.
[22:15] <lifeless> there is a plugin to diff oo files
[22:16] <Peng> Nice.
[22:39] <j1mc> lifeless and Peng ... thanks.  :)


[01:34] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-settings 4.13.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-settings-4-13-1-released-tp49431.html (by Sean Davis-6)
[03:12] <Unit193> bluesabre: Not that we do many packages not merged from Debian, but https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/upgrading-checklist.html#s-4.0.0 hit unstable.
[09:44] <bluesabre> Unit193: thanks
[09:46] <akxwi-dave> Unit193: cheers  can start to check that in the iso now then...
[09:53] <bluesabre> Unit193: with exo and xfce4-settings releases behind me, I can finally start to follow up on https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/xfce4-gtk3.html :)
[23:22] <Unit193> bluesabre: I should likely mention both uploaded to ppa, though exo might be able to go to repo.  Is that really useful?  What's the idea there?
[23:22] <bluesabre> Unit193: there's a thunar fix in that release... but we are also considering other gtk3 components we might include in artful
[23:23] <Unit193> Right, saw that bit..
[23:23] <bluesabre> if we push xfce4-settings or thunar-gtk3, we'll want it :)
[23:23] <Unit193> Ehh, would seriously not be shipping experimental thunar.
[23:24] <bluesabre> I'm optimistic that it might be a stable thing one day
[23:24] <bluesabre> maybe before october :D
[23:25] <Unit193> Could still push it to a PPA to get testing, so it's not like we can't get users testing it..
[23:25] <Unit193> xfce4-settings, it's got the usual GTK3 quirks, but works well enough I don't really care too much. :P
[23:26] <bluesabre> :D
[23:26] <bluesabre> any quirks in particular?
[23:26] <Unit193> I've been pushing some things to Debian as of recent.
[23:26]  * bluesabre claps
[23:26] <Unit193> Well, just now opened 'appearance' and the plug was black for a good 3 seconds.  Usual stuff.
[23:26] <bluesabre> gotcha
[23:27] <bluesabre> think it might do that (in grey) with the gtk2 version
[23:27] <bluesabre> planning to fix that soon
[23:27] <Unit193> Never seen it with that one.
[23:27] <Unit193> But as I said, nothing I've noticed that'd make me object.
[23:28] <bluesabre> cool
[23:29] <Unit193> I mean, byond being a litt apprehensive that it'd require the new xfconf..
[23:30] <bluesabre> :D
[23:31] <Unit193> Just have to remember all the development releases we grab will also be in an LTS.
[23:31] <bluesabre> Yup
[23:31] <bluesabre> So being very careful :)
[23:39] <Unit193> bluesabre: Know about: usr/share/man/man1/exo-csource.1.gz 10: warning: macro `Aq' not defined  ?


[08:07] <juergh> @Wimpress, For an initial coarse bisect you could try our mainline builds: https://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
[08:08]  * juergh hopes @Wimpress still remembers how to install kernels on Ubuntu ;-)
[08:15] <Wimpress> Hey juergh o/
[08:15] <Wimpress> Yep, I was planning to start with some mainline kernels for quick testing :)
[08:15] <juergh> @Wimpress, o/ how are you doing?
[08:15] <Wimpress> I remember just enough to be dangerous
[08:16] <Wimpress> Very well thanks. Yourself?
[08:16] <juergh> good. just file an LP ticket and we'll ignore you.
[08:16] <juergh> me? just peachy.
[08:16] <juergh> thanks for asking ;-)
[12:58] <kwilczynski> Interesting.
[12:59] <kwilczynski> Folks, do you think Brad (yes I know, he can be a bit of a controversial figure) is onto something? https://twitter.com/spendergrsec/status/1383017956326662144
[13:26] <juergh> @kwilczynski, Not sure what he's talking about. We are/have addressed this CVE: https://ubuntu.com/security/CVE-2021-3493
[13:27] <kwilczynski> I am not sure either. It just caught my eye and I wanted to ask just in case.


[11:45] <Mmike> Hi, lads. What's bzr's equivalent of 'git -S' - that is, I'd like to find when a certain string has been introduced into particular file
[11:55] <LeoNerd> You might want to explain to us what  git -S  does as we might not know
[11:55] <LeoNerd> (I for one don't)
[20:55] <fullermd> Mmike: perhaps some invocation with bzr grep?  If nothing else, you could use log -p and search through the output...