[02:55] <timeaftertime> !ops
[02:55] <timeaftertime> " Darwin clearly does not believe anyone but Darwin Fish is faithfully teaching the truth of God's Word."
[02:56] <timeaftertime> !ops |  Darwin clearly does not believe anyone but Darwin Fish is faithfully teaching the truth of God's Word.
[02:56] <timeaftertime> whas up
[02:56] <valorie> :(
[02:56] <timeaftertime> hi
[02:56] <timeaftertime> its me
[02:56] <timeaftertime> guess who!
[02:56] <rww> who
[02:57] <phunyguy> oh he's that guy.
[02:57] <valorie> gotta say, that is the name of a great Cyndi Lauper song
[02:57] <rww> phunyguy: what guy
[02:57] <phunyguy> that.... guy.
[02:57] <rww> he's the guy
[02:58] <timeaftertime> !ops | its me hfsplus!
[02:58] <Pici> I wanna be the guy
[02:58] <timeaftertime> bazhang: noooo waaa
[02:58] <rww> thanks
[02:58] <elky> timeaftertime: sorry, i have a headache.
[02:58] <timeaftertime> elky: im in new hamshire!
[02:58] <timeaftertime> yay
[02:58] <elky> you're saying yay because i have a headache?
[02:59] <rww> elky: do you know where new hampshire is?
[02:59] <rww> hint: it's not nebraska
[02:59] <Pici> Nothing happens in either state though...
[02:59] <valorie> the fine folks in NH would be insulted to hear ya say that, Pici
[03:00] <valorie> I doubt Nebraskans care though
[03:00] <rww> the only thing i know about NH is that the Free State Project wanted to go there
[03:01] <timeaftertime> fuck massachuetts
[03:01] <timeaftertime> !ops
[03:01] <timeaftertime> yay
[03:02] <rww> timeaftertime: anything we can help you with, or are you just here to chat?
[03:02] <valorie> rww, yeah. :(
[03:03] <valorie> but they do have the earliest primary, so politically-minded people still pay attention to 'em
[03:03] <Pici> I wish people would pay less attention to my state
[03:03] <timeaftertime> rww: yes how can i score with a girl in the barroom?
[03:04] <Pici> (new jersey)
[03:04] <rww> the only thing i know about new jersey is that it's pronounced new joisey
[03:04] <timeaftertime> !ops
[03:04] <elky> timeaftertime: you... you're cheating on me?
[03:05] <rww> rotflmao
[03:10] <timeaftertime> elky: i love you
[03:10] <timeaftertime> elky: last time i was new hampshire 2 years ago you banned me
[03:11] <timeaftertime> elky: how do i score with a girl in the bar room?
[03:11] <rww> timeaftertime: girl or woman? the difference is important
[03:11] <timeaftertime> woman
[03:11] <timeaftertime> like 20s
[03:11] <timeaftertime> HOW DO I SCORE?>
[06:53] <Unit193> Tm_T: All those #k ones are from the same IP, in case you didn't see.
[06:55] <Flannel> !ops-#kubuntu
[06:56] <Tm_T> bah
[06:56] <Flannel> Tm_T: I just love pinging you :P
[06:58] <valorie> that is the ban that Riddell just removed, I think
[06:58] <valorie> :(
[06:59] <Flannel> Mmmm, yes.  Does look like it.
[07:00] <Tm_T> it is that indeed
[07:01] <valorie> so, should I put it back?
[07:01] <valorie> ban all the nicks?
[07:01] <Tm_T> it's quiet now
[07:01] <Tm_T> it works aswell
[07:01] <valorie> yes, but it would be nice to keep them out in the future
[07:02] <Tm_T> valorie: quiet doesn't allow them to speak so it's irrelevant if they come or go
[07:02] <valorie> yes
[07:02] <Tm_T> I wonder what kind of ISP is t-ipconnect.de
[07:02] <valorie> lots of the germans use it
[07:03] <valorie> lots of KDE people
[07:04] <Tm_T> Deutsche Telekom AG
[07:42] <mist> ?24
[12:45] <laserjet> !ops
[12:46] <laserjet> curse you bazhang
[18:06] <joeyknight> !ops
[23:49] <bubbasaures> IdleOne, Thanks for saying something in the #ubuntu channel, as a crisis line worker I was getting a bit concerned.


[00:13] <silox> Hello, I wanted to see if anyone could verify that both Landscape (on premises install) and MAAS will both function on Ubuntu 18.04 LTS that's scheduled to be released tomorrow.  Any help would be appreciated as I'd like to use 18.04 for a Landscape/MAAS deployment for an entire datacenter.
[00:14] <sarnold> dpb1: ^^ is this one for you?
[00:14] <sarnold> silox: I'd certainly expect both to be supported eventually, if they aren't actually working tomorrow afternoon..
[01:08] <dpb1> o/
[01:08] <dpb1> maas is in the archive as 2.4.0~beta2
[01:08] <dpb1> it will get updates, but should be working as is right now
[01:09] <dpb1> that version can deploy ubuntu on day 0 (hopefully!) :)
[01:09] <dpb1> sorry, can deploy bionic on day 0
[01:10] <dpb1> landscape-client is at 18.01 in bionic, and is supported there
[01:10] <dpb1> the server is not yet released for bionic, but will be eventually
[01:10] <dpb1> silox: ^
[01:11] <sarnold> dpb1: wonderful :D thanks
[02:32] <Slade> nss-pam-ldapd  will pass the password in clear text unless ssl is used right?
[03:17] <nacc> rbasak: didn't get to update my MP today, will try tmrw
[03:18] <sdeziel> Slade: it depends, StartTLS can also be used. I'd use tcpdump to confirm/check
[03:19] <Slade> starttls would be the ssl/tls
[03:19] <sdeziel> StartTLS is a mechanism to upgrade from plaintext to SSL/TLS
[03:19] <sdeziel> using the same communication port
[03:20] <sdeziel> which is 389
[03:49] <Howie69> So, transitioning from running debian servers to ubuntu virtual servers..
[03:50] <Howie69> I am wondering if anyone has anything written up about the advantages/disadvantages and compatibility issues of using different vms, such as AWS vs. Google Cloud?
[03:51] <Howie69> Or knows of something I can read up on the subject because my google searches returned no results
[05:11] <sdeziel> Howie69: I don't know about Debian but with Ubuntu, you can install a kernel specifically tuned for each of those cloud providers
[05:12] <sdeziel> Howie69: for AWS, the package linux-aws is based on the 4.4 kernel and for Google Cloud, the package linux-gcp is based on the 4.13 kernel
[05:13] <Howie69> sdeziel: That's awesome
[05:18] <sdeziel> Howie69: good luck with the transition
[05:31] <cpaelzer> good morning
[05:45] <tactic>  Hi all. I'm having trouble with trying to install Ubuntu Server. Both 16.04 and 17.10 give me the same problem, namely, I see GRUB appear after the BIOS/UEFI loads, but when I click "Install Ubuntu", my screen goes black and doesn't come back.
[05:45] <tactic> I've done a bit of research and others have had similar issues, it seems, but the recommended advice (set the nomodeset kernel flag and remove the splash flag) doesn't seem to help
[06:04] <Howie69> tactic: The only times I have ever run into that problem is when I mistakenly downloaded the image for the wrong processor type
[06:04] <Howie69> like amd64 on a i586 machine
[06:19] <tactic> Howie69, yeah, I did check that, and I have amd64
[06:19] <tactic> and the corresponding iso
[06:19] <tactic> hmm
[06:19] <tactic> Maybe I'll try Ubuntu desktop, since that's what currently installed
[06:19] <Howie69> can you drop to a console and check the output?
[06:20] <Howie69> I think it's cntrl+F2
[06:20] <tactic> I'm not sure. I can check, but it might have to wait until tomorrow at this point.
[06:20] <tactic> but it's worth at ry
[06:52] <tactic> Howie69, yeah, the CTRL+ALT+F1,2,3, etc didn't seem to do anything different
[06:52] <tactic> unfortunately
[06:53] <tactic> I'm wondering if I need to do something silly like remove my graphics card to install it, or maybe install the SSD into another computer, install Ubuntu, then transfer it :X
[07:05] <Pjusur> Good morning, is it possible to set apparmor status in some config file? or do I have to use the aa-{{status}} command?
[08:28] <Neo4> hi
[08:28] <Neo4> I've create my first shell script https://gist.github.com/kselax/62da283900350b6b437e4ace76a2312a
[08:28] <Neo4> and I'm going to create script like tasksell
[08:29] <Neo4> when we run script there will show list of items something like:
[08:29] <Neo4> 1 install apache2
[08:29] <Neo4> 2 install php5.6
[08:29] <Neo4> 3 install phpmyadmin
[08:29] <Neo4> 4 install mysql
[08:29] <Neo4> etc
[08:30] <Neo4> it looks like useful
[08:30] <Neo4> before I though to learn this command and now thing had better write shell script where all will documented
[08:30] <Neo4> what do you think about this?
[08:31] <Neo4> it can streamline work, significantly reduce time
[08:31] <Neo4> for install server you don't need know all command
[08:32] <Neo4> and we can make if user input 101 we will show for him list of help where he will able to chose what help he what, for example
[08:33] <Neo4> for apache 2 we could have 1 install apache and not explicetly 101 will show our own help reference where user will know what files you need edit where they are places, how to crate virtual hosts etc
[08:33] <Neo4> now I all gathered in text files, but more easy put all to shell script
[08:34] <Neo4> it must be done yes?
[08:34] <Neo4> any cool linux administrator must write his own shell script that will increase his speed
[08:35] <Neo4> we mustn't learn anything
[09:10] <cpaelzer> Neo4: for commandline people either know the commands, or if they want to select tasks/packages acn use e.g. aptitude
[09:10] <cpaelzer> which gives them even curses UI
[09:11] <cpaelzer> Neo4: I don't want to stop your learning exercise but the proposed doesn't seem to be very useful to me
[09:12] <Neo4> cpaelzer: why? or you will use instruction always and copy past command or you copy shell file and install all needed app on your VPS very fast
[09:12] <cpaelzer> Neo4: and to encapsulate the admin knowledge post raw package install there are plenty of infrastructures that help you do so juju, puppet, chef, ansible to name a few
[09:13] <Neo4> I'd better write my own infrastructure for apps that I use
[09:13] <cpaelzer> feel free to do so
[09:13] <cpaelzer> I'm mentioning alternatives, not trying to convince you of anything
[09:13] <Neo4> cpaelzer: but this is really entrence, you don't need learn command and you will pawerful
[09:14] <Neo4> did once and use multiple times
[09:14] <Neo4> :)
[09:14] <Neo4> I'm doing now first version
[11:16] <Neo4> installer how it will be
[11:16] <Neo4> https://gist.github.com/kselax/d24bf3ef187d1adb126e9b81ae44d385
[11:16] <Neo4> make menu and select items
[11:17] <Neo4> for example I always forget how to generate IRS key, for this I can put there in menu item "generate irs key" and select that item next time
[11:17] <Neo4> shell script must save times
[13:14] <Maxel> is it a bad idea to kill and apt-get upgrade process? I was ssh'd into my server when my connection was interrupted
[13:15] <rbasak> It's not good, but usually recovery tends to work OK.
[13:16] <rbasak> dpkg and apt go to quite some trouble to make it OK.
[13:16] <rbasak> Some package maintainer scripts may be more fragile though.
[13:17] <sdeziel> Maxel: if you have an unreliable connection, you can run tmux on the destination to prevent dropping abruptly (next time)
[13:19] <Maxel> well I should be able to foreground the process right?
[13:21] <Ussat> or screen
[13:21] <Maxel> oh, apparently not... can't "reparent" an orphaned process
[13:23] <sdeziel> Maxel: no, you cannot indeed
[13:25] <rbasak> It's orphaned?
[13:25] <rbasak> Then it's dead.
[13:25] <Maxel> not sure which proc is actually the one to kill... I've got sudo apt-get upgrade, apt-get upgrade, and dpkg --status-fd 62 --configure
[13:25] <rbasak> Uh.
[13:25] <rbasak> No, I was thinking zombie. Never mind.
[13:25] <Maxel> that come up when ps aux | grep apt
[13:43] <Maxel> so I ended up killing the apt process and ran dpkg --configure -a to repair it. I got the same grub error where it couldn't install to certain devices, same as described in this post: https://askubuntu.com/questions/315207/grub-failed-to-install-to-the-following-devices-error-on-upgrade
[13:45] <sdeziel> Maxel: could you pastebin your lsblk output?
[13:46] <Maxel> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/vZVxGzBcHM/
[13:48] <sdeziel> Maxel: OK so you should be trying to install grub only into /dev/sdb, is that what you tried?
[13:48] <Maxel> yeah, I turned it off for sda, sdb5 and dm-0
[13:49] <sdeziel> did you turn it off for sdb1 too?
[13:50] <dpb1> Maxel: and you should really use 'byobu' or 'tmux' when running on a remote system. :)
[13:50] <dpb1> (years of experience)
[13:51] <Maxel> sure, I'll look at the documentation and figure out how
[13:51] <dpb1> there is a small learning curve, but it's worth it
[13:55] <Maxel> any reason to use screen over tmux?
[13:55] <Maxel> as the backend
[13:56] <dpb1> tmux is modern
[13:56] <dpb1> screen is not
[13:56] <dpb1> you will find much more dev effort on tmux
[13:56] <dpb1> so, if you are starting out, I recommend that
[13:57] <Maxel> awesome, thanks for the info
[14:03] <jayjo> I have a server that has a memory leak somehwere and I can't use most commands available to track it down
[14:03] <jayjo> free & df -h both cannot allocate memory
[14:04] <dpb1> hah
[14:04] <jayjo> even trying to use sudo service `example` stop gets a `cannot allocate memory`
[14:04] <jayjo> It feels like I'm in trouble
[14:04] <dpb1> yuck
[14:04] <dpb1> can ps run?
[14:05] <jayjo> unfortunately, no
[14:05] <waveform> do you have physical access to the server?
[14:05] <jayjo> no, it's an an AWS instance
[14:06] <waveform> (magic sysrq's "t" might be useful)
[14:06] <waveform> ah, well forget that idea then
[14:06] <dpb1> jayjo: can you cat files?
[14:07] <jayjo> ha! no I can't! Would increasing the server size in the aws console help? It's already a moderate-to-large instance
[14:12] <jayjo> I've inreased the instance type for a little bit here so I can move around. What's the best way to track this down now that I have some memory to use bash?
[14:17] <jayjo> this is my system's df output: https://bpaste.net/show/a8bc95416513 - doesn't really look like a leak, right?
[14:18] <jayjo> sorry - du output
[14:33] <waveform> jayjo, that's looking at disk usage - would be more interesting to see what's eaten all the memory with ps
[14:37] <rbasak> nacc: how would you feel about a policy that all new deps added to snapcraft.yaml are hosted on people.c.c over an external URL?
[14:37] <rbasak> Where possible, at least.
[14:47] <dpb1> jayjo: so... I think you probably are left with just a reboot
[14:47] <dpb1> jayjo: unless you really really want to figure out what is going on
[14:47] <dpb1> jayjo: what's the memory of the instance (not disk space, ram)
[14:54] <gQuigs> I know it's hilariously late.. (but I didn't notice it before today) - but do we think nagios3 (having known CVEs) should really live in universe for 18.04? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nagios3/+bug/1696252
[14:56] <gQuigs> (even if we can't bring icinga2 full yo main as a replacement in time)
[15:01] <mdeslaur> +1 on demoting nagios3
[15:02] <mdeslaur> rbasak: ^?
[15:02] <rbasak> dpb1: ^
[15:04] <sdeziel> will it be possible to have icinga2 promoted to main during the lifetime of 18.04 ?
[15:05] <rbasak> I'm not sure how a change of component works after the release pocket is frozen.
[15:06] <nacc> rbasak: i think that makes sense -- also a tarball at a fixed rev is a lot faster than git
[15:07] <nacc> sdeziel: it is possible, but not common (iirc)
[15:08] <nacc> gQuigs: mdeslaur: rbasak: that was something we had worked on last cycle, iirc
[15:22] <jbicha> speaking of hilariously late security-sensitive removals, the blocker for webkitgtk removal is gnucash but it's build tests fail on Ubuntu
[15:22] <jbicha> we could just ignore those build tests… :|
[15:22] <jbicha> bug 1758740
[15:25] <nacc> rbasak: when you have a moment for a git-ubuntu question, let me know
[15:30] <teward> busy day I take it.  :P
[15:34] <nacc> rbasak: simply re: your MP feedback, I think if MockError is raised and only MockError is handled, it doesn't hide a RuntimeError elsewhere. I checked by changing the mock's raised Exception to a RuntimeError and it failed.
[15:35] <rbasak> nacc: what I mean is that if MockError is derived from RuntimeError, and the code handles a RuntimeError, it'll accidentally handle the MockError when we wanted it passed through
[15:36] <teward> rbasak: nacc: sorry to interrupt but what language are you guys working with there?  Python?
[15:36] <rbasak> Python
[15:36] <gQuigs> jbicha: or remove gnucash :/
[15:36] <teward> if MockError is based on RuntimeError but your try/except only catches MockError it won't accidentally catch RuntimeError
[15:36] <teward> rbasak: ^
[15:36] <teward> the way Python error classes are, *every* error inherits Exception (RuntimeError does too!)
[15:37] <teward> but if MockError is its own defined error class and you only catch MockError RuntimeError is seen as a different 'class' of capture
[15:37] <teward> and excluded from MockError cathces
[15:37] <rbasak> teward: understood. I think you're missing context.
[15:37] <rbasak> We're injecting a MockError.
[15:37] <teward> i probably am.  (Would be glad to assist)
[15:37] <rbasak> The code under test could catch RuntimeError.
[15:37] <rbasak> We don't want the code under test to catch MockError.
[15:39] <teward> i'd love to see the code in question, but if you don't want it to catch as a RuntimeError then you may wish to declare MockError as inheriting a different error class (possibly just a bare Exception class)
[15:39] <teward> because you *are* actually correct now that I have context for understanding the issue at hand
[15:40] <teward> you *can* capture MockErrors as separate handling, but it's just 'more code' on the except.
[15:41] <teward> rbasak: (i assume that MockError's declaration inherits RuntimeError then?)
[15:41] <rbasak> teward: here it is: https://code.launchpad.net/~nacc/usd-importer/+git/usd-importer/+merge/343566
[15:42] <teward> rbasak: +1 for your comment 20 hours ago, it should have Exception or BaseException as its superclass
[15:42] <teward> nacc: ^
[15:42] <teward> rbasak: thanks for sharing so I can have context
[15:43] <rbasak> teward: np. Feel free to help us review any other git-ubuntu MPs :)
[15:43] <teward> i'll need the proverbial 'flamethrower' to burn things, but I'll also need to review the base codebase to catch up :)
[15:43] <teward> (also, unrelated: yay for Python!)
[15:47] <teward> rbasak: commented to +1 your suggestion and to confirm that the way MockError's been declared will cause issues for the reasons mentioned :)
[15:47] <teward> *starts reading the code to better grasp the evils of the code*
[15:49] <teward> (I do a lot of Python dev... I should devote my knowledge to these reviews heh)
[15:52] <teward> rbasak: the other more 'evil' way is to have a separate `except MockError:` before the RuntimeError catch... and just simply `pass` in that.  It's a nasty hackish fix but that'd be the 'other way' to do this
[15:54] <teward> rbasak: i think i'm missing bits, where's MockError get raised?
[15:55] <teward> or rather, defined.  (I can't type today)
[15:57] <rbasak> teward: we intend to define it in the test. But as that came from a review comment, I suspect it's not anywhere written yet.
[15:58] <teward> indeed.  two ways to do it, ultimately, but I think it'd be better to have its superclass as Exception rather than RuntimeError for the reasons you specified, and because if MockError is not in and of itself a RuntimeError for capture purposes it should not have RuntimeError as its superclass.
[15:58] <nacc> rbasak: oh of course, right
[15:59] <nacc> teward: thanks
[15:59] <teward> rbasak: since MockError doesn't exist in the codebase, though, then which superclass is used for MockError is a discussion for whatever MP suggests adding it.  (Just my two cents)
[16:00] <nacc> right, it's about to be in that MP based upon the current feedback
[16:00] <nacc> teward: so if you just tell me now, i'll do it :)
[16:01] <teward> nacc: I'd make MockError's superclass either Exception or BaseException, not RuntimeError, if you intend MockError to be handled separately from generic RuntimeErrors
[16:01] <teward> as rbasak suggested in the comments on the MP :)
[16:02] <nacc> right, but which of those?
[16:02] <teward> ... speaking of bad error class captures, I just made a folly on a program I have here at work heh.  *goes to fix*
[16:02] <nacc> teward: or how does one decide
[16:02] <teward> remind me: py2 or py3 codebase here?
[16:03] <teward> (I'm assumign Py3)
[16:04] <nacc> py3
[16:04] <teward> nacc: all error classes in Python ultimately inherit BaseException, which is the base class for all in=built exceptions, but it's not meant to be inherited for user-defined classes.  Exception is probably what you want to have the superclass of MockError be.
[16:04] <teward> (from https://docs.python.org/3/library/exceptions.html)
[16:04] <nacc> yep, that's wht i thought, just wanted to confirm
[16:04] <nacc> thanks teward !
[16:04] <teward> yep
[16:05] <rbasak> teward: thanks. That's exactly what I was wanting to look up.
[16:06] <teward> rbasak: i refer to this thing *regularly* with all the classes and python libs i have both open-source and closed-source proprietary here at work - i have that page open up pretty much all the time when working in Python :P
[16:06] <teward> you're welcome.
[16:25] <waveform> yup - BaseException has its uses as a base, but they're always the exception (sorry! ;) rather than the rule
[16:26] <waveform> (typically either used when the thing is "not really an error" or if it's something you really don't want to be caught, even by "except Exception:", like SystemExit)
[16:27] <teward> waveform: The Puns!  :P
[16:30] <rbasak> waveform, nacc: in this case, MockError sounds more like a BaseException thing to me.
[16:30] <rbasak> It's not really an error. It's an injected "what if an exception falls all the way through to the test" thing.
[16:31] <teward> rbasak: that's what Exception is for then.
[16:31] <teward> BaseException for all intents and purposes is the same as Exception in that BaseException has a superclass of Exception
[16:32] <waveform> erm, other way around :)
[16:32] <teward> you're right my apologies
[16:32] <teward> regardless, they do much of the same thing
[16:32] <rbasak> Perhaps it should be called MockException
[16:32] <rbasak> Derived from BaseException
[16:32] <rbasak> As it's not that we're even simulating an error.
[16:32] <rbasak> We're simulating something that flies through all exception handlers.
[16:33] <waveform> teward, indeed - but I could see rbasak's case here that really this ought to derive from BaseException as it's meant to test what happens when something falls through everything (as SystemExit is intended to, hence why it derives from BaseException rather than Exception)
[16:33] <waveform> https://docs.python.org/3/library/exceptions.html#exception-hierarchy
[16:33] <teward> *true*
[16:34] <rbasak> I'm sort of surprised that this isn't already a pattern handled by the mock module's documentation
[16:34] <teward> in either case it should inherit from *either* BaseException or Exception rather than RuntimeError (because of false-positive captures/)
[16:34] <teward> nacc: rbasak makes a good point for BaseException.  While I don't use it, Exception basically inherits BaseException, so you could use BaseException if you want.
[16:35] <teward> it's interesting that *warnings* are considered exceptions too heh
[16:35] <teward> but that's a different discussion :P
[16:35] <waveform> yeah - and they can  be raised as such depending on the configuration of the warnings sub-system, but typically they're suppressed
[16:35] <waveform> (but yes, definitely a different discussion!)
[16:36] <teward> waveform: normally I consider "Exception" as the "default superclass" for my custom exceptions, but it would depend on the specific cases in the program whether you inherit BaseException or Exception
[16:36] <teward> and if we're throwing a MockError we *probably* want that to be caught in a generic Exception capture.
[16:37] <teward> in which case you'd have Exception as the superclass
[16:37] <waveform> absolutely - if BaseException is used, one should generally "make the  case for it" (if only to one's self, but still)
[16:37] <teward> rbasak: do we want to treat Mock exceptions as globally-breaking Exceptions?
[16:37] <teward> or do you want them treated as 'Raised but ignored' exceptions
[16:38] <teward> if it's the former, then Exception should be the superclass; if the latter, then BaseException should be the superclass.
[16:38] <teward> ^ TL;DR for the discussion that waveform and I were just having
[16:38] <teward> nacc: ^ as well
[16:39] <rbasak> I'm not really trying to define a general mock exception class. Just one for this particular test case.
[16:39] <rbasak> We want to make sure that a close() method gets called when stuff fails.
[16:39] <teward> ack
[16:39] <rbasak> So we need to simulate a failure and make sure that the failure ripples all the way back up to the test.
[16:40] <nacc> ok, i've derived from Exception and will force push, rbasak --- you can do wht you want with it now :)
[16:40] <nacc> (if you're ok with force push)
[16:40] <rbasak> Force push is ifine
[16:40] <rbasak> Though I've convinced myself that BaseException is right now.
[16:40] <rbasak> But I don't care enough to make you change it or change it myself or anything.
[16:40] <rbasak> It'll be fine either way in practice.
[16:41] <nacc> done
[16:41] <nacc> right
[16:41] <teward> fun fact, they'll be caught either way by the default error interceptors in Python
[16:41] <teward> which explains why Exception is the user-defined-error inheritance suggestion in the docs :P
[16:41] <teward> either way, it won't be caught as a RuntimeError now :0
[16:41] <teward> :) *
[16:42] <nacc> rbasak: i think i covered all your cases
[16:42] <nacc> rbasak: how is your importer run going?
[16:42] <rbasak> It's still stuck. I was working on making the snap build work.
[16:43] <nacc> rbasak: ack
[16:43] <nacc> rbasak: and by stuck, you just mean working on the large packages
[16:43] <rbasak> I have a branch for it now. Just need to clean it up and file the MP. Probably tomorrow.
[16:43] <rbasak> Yeah
[16:43] <nacc> rbasak: does your branch do more than people.c.c/~racb ? (or the team or whatever)
[16:43] <rbasak> My intention: get that MP landed, stick it in edge (or beta), update the snap on the importer host, rerun the importer with a correct max-age argument.
[16:43] <rbasak> That should take up the new blacklist.
[16:44] <nacc> rbasak: yeah that seems reasonable
[16:44] <rbasak> nacc: https://code.launchpad.net/~racb/usd-importer/+git/usd-importer/+ref/snap-vendoring-updates - will rebase.
[16:44] <rbasak> (for squashing)
[16:45] <nacc> rbasak: and i assume you've made sure the snap builds?
[16:46] <nacc> and passes self-test, i mean
[16:46] <rbasak> nacc: nearly. It failed ont he last iteration. I have a successful build and will check it tomorrow.
[16:48] <nacc> rbasak: ok
[18:45] <dpb1> ahasenack: I'm looking back for the previous ones in ubuntu-release
[18:45] <dpb1> ahasenack: I'm not sure
[18:46] <dpb1> ahasenack: looks like this
[18:46] <dpb1> Starting main-titmouse
[18:46] <dpb1> lmao
[18:46] <dpb1> Builds: Ubuntu Server Subiquity amd64 [Bionic Final] has been updated (20180425.1)
[18:46] <dpb1> ^
[18:47] <dpb1> ahasenack: and, looks like it was the last one of the sequence
[18:47] <ahasenack> that's from yesterday
[18:48] <dpb1> of course, but that is what it will look like when it's done
[18:49] <ahasenack> desktop is here? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/daily-live/
[18:49] <dpb1> yes
[18:49] <ahasenack> it doesn't have an entry for today yet
[18:50] <ahasenack> -queuebot/#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Desktop amd64 [Bionic Final] has been updated (20180426) was already announced
[18:50] <ahasenack> there may be some lag
[18:50] <ahasenack> ah, showed up
[18:50] <dpb1> ahasenack: it's the launchpad really-really-published state
[18:50] <ahasenack> partially
[18:51] <ahasenack> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/daily-live/20180426/ just metadata for now
[18:51] <dpb1> you just need to find the green gear somewhere
[19:21] <dpb1> ahasenack: I'm trying out the "alternate" server image
[19:23] <RoyK> the new installer sucks
[19:32] <dpb1> I quite like it.
[19:42] <RoyK> dpb1: did you try to install on raid/lvm/fde?
[19:44] <teward> wait there's a new installer on the server images?  *really*?
[19:45] <sarnold> I think there's three installers -- debian-installer, ubiquity, subiquity
[19:45] <sdeziel> RoyK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseNotes#New_since_17.10-2 says that for those use cases, the old installer is needed
[19:46] <blackflow> sarnold: four if you count debootstrap (which technically is one) :)
[19:46] <sarnold> blackflow: oh right :D
[19:47] <RoyK> sdeziel: I know and that's a major flaw
[19:47] <RoyK> sdeziel: making a new installer just for it to be userfriendly or so, for a server installation, doesn't make sense
[19:49] <RoyK> sdeziel: the whole point of having different distro versions for desktop and server should be focus on what's needed - a "userfriendly" installer for server that doesn't allow you to do what's been there the last 10+ years, isn't friendly
[19:49] <sdeziel> RoyK: yeah, in our case, that means we won't use subiquity until it reaches feature parity with the alternate installer
[19:49] <dpb1> RoyK: well, if you want a serious discussion...
[19:50] <dpb1> RoyK: the underpinnings do support these things, and it's next up on the list to impliment, I suggest you check back at 18.10 on it.
[19:50] <sarnold> I think I even heard rumours it's intended to be supported by 18.04.1.
[19:51] <RoyK> sdeziel: do they really allow new "features" in an LTS? it's frozen
[19:51] <dpb1> it's built on curtin (the backend of maas), which supports all these things already, so it's *just* ui.  (joking on the *just*)
[19:51] <sdeziel> RoyK: I was hoping for 20.04 :)
[19:52] <RoyK> let's say 24.04
[19:52] <ahasenack> RoyK: what exactly is your point, if you still have the raid/lvm/fde options available in the other installer?
[19:52] <ahasenack> or just a critiscism about the new installer (which is fine)
[19:53] <ahasenack> (misspelled that probably)
[19:53] <RoyK> ahasenack: the problem is that a server installer that is so dumb you feel like installing windows 95 shouldn't be used on a server distro
[19:54] <ahasenack> RoyK: which one is that, the new or old one?
[19:54] <RoyK> the old one's fine
[19:54] <RoyK> the new one is shiny and "userfriendly", but doesn't give you much to choose from
[19:55] <ahasenack> that wasn't really the goal of the new one, not the main one at least
[19:55] <ahasenack> it's an attempt at unification
[19:55] <ahasenack> it uses the same installer that maas (maas.io) uses, and maas knows how to tweak almost all of its knobs already
[19:55] <RoyK> that doesn't matter when it can't work like the old one
[19:55] <ahasenack> it's getting there
[19:56] <RoyK> "getting there" for an LTS release?
[19:56] <ahasenack> maas can already drive it to create partitions, raids, btrfs, bcache
[19:56] <ahasenack> bonding
[19:56] <sarnold> ahasenack: zfs root? :D
[19:56] <ahasenack> no, it didn't reach feature parity for the lts
[19:56] <ahasenack> that's why the old installer is still there
[19:56] <ahasenack> sarnold: maybe, I hear things :)
[19:57] <RoyK> then perhaps the old installer should be the default for now?
[19:57] <ahasenack> so, the point it that the tech, the actual installer under the hood, can already do all that
[19:57] <ahasenack> the "frontend", if you will, not yet
[19:57] <ahasenack> RoyK: that's a matter of choice indeed, it could have been that way (new one be alternate, old one be default)
[19:57] <ahasenack> but the choice was made
[19:57] <sdeziel> supporting multiple installers is suboptimal, is this a temporary situation until subiquity gains feature parity?
[19:58] <RoyK> defaulting on an installer that can't do the old installer's job is quite far from optimal
[19:58] <RoyK> it's just crap
[19:59] <ahasenack> I can just describe how things are, sorry
[20:00] <nacc> sdeziel: yeah, i think so (long-term)
[20:00] <sdeziel> nacc: good cause more choices adds dimensions to the testing matrix :)
[20:00] <nacc> sdeziel: right
[20:01] <nacc> sdeziel: i say that unofficially though :)
[20:01] <axisys> having trouble with apt-get .. need some help
[20:01] <axisys> http://dpaste.com/2FNKS5B.txt
[20:02] <nacc> axisys: those don't appear to be ubuntu packages?
[20:02] <sdeziel> axisys: looks like you have held packages and you also seem to use a mix of packages for precise and trusty
[20:03] <nacc> axisys: as in those versions are not ubuntu package versions
[20:03] <axisys> lsb_release -a says Ubuntu 14.04.5 LTS
[20:04] <axisys> no not sure how precise is in there..
[20:04] <nacc> axisys: that doesn't tell us what repos you are using
[20:04] <nacc> apt-cache policy libpython2.7-stdlib
[20:05] <axisys> that was a PPA .. since I could get the latest python and it was failing
[20:05] <nacc> axisys: right ppa is not supported here
[20:05] <nacc> (or by ubuntu generally)
[20:05] <nacc> contact the ppa owner, axisys
[20:05] <axisys> I can remove it and then show the error again.. it was erroring out and PPA was added few mins ago.. let me remove that
[20:06] <axisys> nacc: wait.. I am not trying to get support for the PPA .. removing it .. give me 5 sec
[20:07] <dpb1> well, glad to see that we had a serious discussion
[20:07] <axisys> http://dpaste.com/2EM32AC.txt
[20:07] <sdeziel> using a PPA is like peeling the "warranty void sticker" :)
[20:07] <axisys> ok.. PPA is out
[20:08] <axisys> so I suppose run ``apt-get -f install'' ?
[20:08] <nacc> axisys: you needed to use ppa-purge
[20:09] <axisys> nacc: that won't work .. until apt-get is fixed
[20:09] <nacc> or use dpkg
[20:10] <axisys> I do not have the ppa-purge deb
[20:11] <sarnold> try apt-get install libpython2.7-minimal=2.7.6-8ubuntu0.4 libpython2.7-stdlib=2.7.6-8ubuntu0.4
[20:11] <dpb1> Also, just to clear up language.  there is no default.  both installers are offered and supported for 18.04.  I had that misunderstanding a while back and it helped me to clear it up.
[20:12] <axisys> sarnold: that installed
[20:13] <sarnold> axisys: alright see if apt is happier now
[20:13] <axisys> sarnold: yep.. pretty happy now
[20:13] <axisys> I got here when I was trying to install latest ansible with python
[20:13] <nacc> axisys: 'latest' from ubuntu?
[20:14] <axisys> nacc: with pip
[20:14] <nacc> axisys: ok, so that fails or something?
[20:14] <axisys> let me paste it
[20:14] <axisys> yes
[20:15] <axisys> http://dpaste.com/20N5HYR
[20:16] <nacc> axisys: that's not the ubuntu python
[20:16] <nacc> err not ubuntu pip
[20:16] <nacc>  /usr/local/...
[20:16] <axisys> /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pkg_resources.py
[20:16] <axisys> 3rd line
[20:18] <nacc> axisys: the bug is in your local pip
[20:18] <nacc> axisys: the backtrace, i mean
[20:18] <axisys> installing python-pip pkg
[20:20] <axisys> installed python-pip and next error http://dpaste.com/2KMZY13
[20:20] <nacc> axisys: you might also need python-contextlib?
[20:23] <axisys> python-contextlib2 is already the newest version.
[20:23] <nacc> axisys: this is trusty
[20:23] <nacc> ?
[20:23] <axisys> yes
[20:31] <nacc> axisys: trying to reproduce, sorry
[20:32] <nacc> axisys: contextlib imports fine by default in trusty
[20:32] <axisys> http://dpaste.com/3R05TZ1.txt
[20:33] <nacc> axisys: what is that?
[20:33] <axisys> OK. I am trying to install python-pip again
[20:33] <nacc> axisys: your python installation appears to be a bit fubar
[20:34] <nacc> axisys: you can try and resolve it for apt manually
[20:36] <axisys> ok back to pip
[20:36] <axisys> ImportError: No module named contextlib
[20:37] <nacc> axisys: same backtrace?
[20:40] <axisys> http://dpaste.com/29WA6JJ.txt
[20:40] <nacc> axisys: can you run `python -c import contextlib` ?
[20:42] <axisys> http://dpaste.com/2SA051G
[20:42] <axisys> syntax error
[20:42] <axisys> # python -m contextlib
[20:42] <axisys> /usr/bin/python: No module named contextlib
[20:42] <sarnold> add quotes around the "import contextlib"
[20:42] <axisys> python -c "import contextlib" gives same result
[20:43] <nacc> it works fine by default in trusty
[20:43] <nacc> axisys: fyi
[20:43] <axisys> # python --version
[20:43] <axisys> Python 2.7.6
[20:43] <axisys> I think this server is sick.. :-)
[20:44] <nacc> that's the correct trusty version
[20:45] <nacc> i'm testing in a lxd
[20:46] <axisys> when everything will be container all these will be just moot point..
[20:49] <nacc> axisys: `dpkg -S contextlib` ?
[20:52] <nacc> it should be from libpython2.7-stdlib
[21:11] <axisys> http://dpaste.com/2XBMM11.txt
[21:12] <nacc> axisys: apt-cache policy libpython2.7-stdlib
[21:12] <axisys> 2.7.6-8ubuntu0.4
[21:13] <axisys> http://dpaste.com/191G44R.txt
[21:14] <nacc> axisys: it seems misinstalled, as there should be a /usr/lib/python2.7/contextlib.py
[21:14] <nacc> i would try reinstalling it, if that file does not exist
[21:15] <axisys> libpython2.7-stdlib is already the newest version.
[21:17] <nacc> right, but it's not correclty installed
[21:17] <nacc> afaict
[21:17] <nacc> do you have the above file?
[21:17] <axisys> ok reinstalled
[21:17] <axisys> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4424 Nov 23 16:53 /usr/lib/python2.7/contextlib.py
[21:18] <nacc> try your commandn ow
[21:18] <axisys> pip install --upgrade pip worked this time.. no idea what convoluted path I took
[21:21] <nacc> axisys: your ppa i think busted things ... and then it didn't fix properly
[21:58] <dpb1> sforshee: thanks for the testing reports
[23:31] <teward> ... now if only the download server would actually speed up, maybe I could test-run this in VMware, on my KVM VPSes, etc.  :P
[23:31] <teward> (it'll run in VMware, no idea if it'll sanely run on KVM'd VPSes heheh)
[23:36] <dpb1> https://www.ubuntu.com/download/server
[23:36] <dpb1> 18.04 ^
[23:37] <teward> dpb1: i know.  it's downloading now.  But running at an abysmally slow rate.
[23:37] <dpb1> teward: torrent
[23:37] <teward> ... and I have a gig uplink so...
[23:37] <teward> dpb1: DHT activity == blacklist on my hyper-secure network :p
[23:37] <dpb1> teward: VPN
[23:37] <dpb1> :)
[23:38] <teward> my fault, but otherwise would be a "good to go" option.  That said, as soon as my local ISO mirror finishes its zsync I *should* be good to go :)
[23:38] <teward> (it's where I keep the Ubuntu ISOs, and its currently downloading Lubuntu, MATE, and Server ISOs)
[23:40] <teward> dpb1: waiting for my local mirror to finish its zsyncs should be satisfactory.  (NOte that Server, MATE, and Lubuntu are the priority order currently...)(
[23:40] <sarnold> I forgot to poke a hole through my nat for torrent.. I just went from ~14 peers to ~35 peers
[23:41] <sarnold> I think it's still going at about 2% of my actual bandwidth though. I had hoped fixing that would open the floodgates...
[23:43] <teward> sarnold: NAT is evil that way, isn't it :P
[23:43] <sarnold> yeah :/
[23:43] <teward> sarnold: except when it's supposed to be closed and locked down, *then* it's not evil, it's doing its job.
[23:43] <teward> :P
[23:44] <sarnold> teward: I have to admi a certain amount of "security blanket" feeling to NAT, indeed :)
[23:44] <dpb1> teward: but, just for anyone else.  really, the torrents came down in like seconds. :)
[23:44]  * dpb1 is continuing to seed
[23:46] <teward> dpb1: indeed.  'Course, the Server ISO just finished its ZSync so :)
[23:46] <dpb1> nice
[23:58] <teward> um, this may be a problem
[23:59] <teward> nevermind, it's my typing that failed.
[23:59] <sarnold> :)


[09:25]  * jelmer wonders if w7z is the upgraded version of mgz
[09:26] <w7z> a different model, at least :)
[09:26] <jelmer> :)
[18:55] <jaalto> How can I wrap changes in REV..REV into individual patch sets, like in git 001-* 002-* ?
[21:25] <thomi> Hi everyone, I'm trying to get the timestamp of the last revision in a bzr branch using bzrlib. I've found Branch.last_revision_info(), but I can't seem to get from there to a timestamp.
[21:26] <thomi> I've been trawling the log command code, since that does it, but it's.. complicated to say the least. I wonder if anyone here has some hints?
[22:13] <jelmer> thomi: hi
[22:13] <jelmer> thomi: branch.repository.get_revision(branch.last_revision()).timestamp
[22:13] <thomi> jelmer: hey, I actualy figured it out in the end, sorry, I should have posted here
[22:14] <jelmer> thomi: no worries, glad you found it :)
[22:14] <thomi> jelmer: one thing I'm not sure about though - the revision's timezone attribute, is that in minutes offset?
[22:14] <jelmer> thomi: yes, minutes delta to UTC
[22:14] <thomi> awesme


[04:30] <zebaszp> hi everyone, I need some big help: I've been trying to improve my read on all things Mir and Wayland, but for the love of me I just don't understand what's going on...so I'm asking both parties their opinions
[04:31] <zebaszp> I need a full, honest to goodness explanation on what Wayland means to Unity and Mir, from feature differences, to community support and everything else
[04:33] <zebaszp> ...anyone?
[04:35] <zebaszp> popey, perhaps? hello?
[04:41] <zebaszp> hello? anyone there?
[04:44] <zebaszp> AlanBell, maybe?
[04:47] <zebaszp> is anyone actually here? come on!
[04:54] <zebaszp> come on, guys! there must be someone here!
[04:57] <paulo-castro> I have the same questions zebaszp
[04:59] <paulo-castro> I am worried with the fragmentation. When dealing with a so important software as a display server, fragmentation must be avoided.
[05:00] <zebaszp> indeed, paulo-castro, which begs the question "why Mir?"
[05:00] <zebaszp> I read the wiki, and I talked to the guys at #wayland, but I don't feel any closer to the answer
[05:01] <zebaszp> which brings me here
[05:02] <paulo-castro> zebaszp: When reading a Muktware arcticle it seamed to be about software control. Looks like canonicle want to control the display server to make the implementation of needed features easier
[05:02] <paulo-castro> Looks like good answer to me, but I want to hear more opinions obout the subject.
[05:03] <zebaszp> so far, the logic from the guys at #wayland was Mir is not a replacement for Wayland, but for SurfaceFlinger
[05:03] <zebaszp> which still doesn't quite fit
[05:03] <paulo-castro> Maybe a strategy to converge both
[05:04] <zebaszp> but why not use Wayland for that?
[05:04] <zebaszp> that's what it boils down to right now for me
[05:04] <paulo-castro> Seems much like upstart vs. systemd to me
[05:05] <paulo-castro> Maybe the features are missing and implementing something new in Wayland (upstream) is too slow
[05:06] <zebaszp> as far as the guys at #wayland are concerned, Mir doesn't include anything new, and Canonical made no attempt to contact them
[05:07] <paulo-castro> Yes....this leads to the same fragmentation problem...
[05:07] <zebaszp> ...we're just going around in circles...
[05:07] <zebaszp> I want someone who knows to reply! popey! come here!
[05:09] <paulo-castro> Why they don't work togheter? Systemd vs. upstart. Libre vs. OpenOffice. Mate vs. Cinnamon. It's a shame IMHO
[05:09] <paulo-castro> together*
[05:10] <zebaszp> LibreOffice made sense, so OpenOffice should really merge into Libre; MATE and Cinnamon are radically different; and Upstart predates systemd, but was made obsolete by it
[05:11] <paulo-castro> Why MATE and Cinn are different? They don't look so different from users pov
[05:11] <zebaszp> MATE is Gnome2 running in GTK3, but Cinnamon works on Gnome Shell
[05:13] <paulo-castro> But, as a UI, they aren't so different. I mean, besides tech aspects.
[05:14] <paulo-castro> The work very similarly from design's perspective
[05:14] <zebaszp> yeah, I guess, but for that matter, can't you replicate the same design in XFCE or LXDE?
[05:30] <zebaszp> anyone willing to answer my questions now?
[05:48] <zebaszp> no one?
[06:20] <zebaszp> wow, I can't believe no one replied in almost 2 hours...
[06:21] <zebaszp> (no offence, paulo-castro)
[09:07] <RAOF> Shock! Developers not in #ubuntu-mir at 15:00 on a Sunday afternoon. ☺
[09:10] <popey> or 4AM on a Sunday morning
[09:26] <tvoss> good morning :)


[05:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84838 in launchpad-bazaar "code browser should use oops system" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84838
[05:30] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84839 in soyuz "Build farm should not be a context (should not have tabs)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84839
[08:00] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84847 in malone "Application tabs missing on many bug report subsidiary pages" [High,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84847
[11:00] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84855 in launchpad "pagetests/branches/xx-person-branches.txt disabled" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84855
[12:11] <cprov> good morning .
[12:28] <carlos> morning!
[01:19] <sabdfl> salgado: ping
[01:19] <sabdfl> is the membreship expiration warning email stuff landed, or deployed?
[01:20] <salgado> hi sabdfl. it's deployed, I think. let me check
[01:22] <salgado> sabdfl, yeah, it's deployed
[01:23] <sabdfl> so expiration warnings should be sent out daily?
[01:23] <sabdfl> because a few guys got expired this week and i don't think they got warnings
[01:25] <salgado> yeah, we send daily notifications for the memberships which are going to expire in  a week or less
[01:28] <salgado> sabdfl, got the guys/teams names? I'll try to find out whether the emails were sent or not
[02:07] <sabdfl> salgado: another question: can LP polls select the top m of n options?
[02:09] <salgado> sabdfl, I don't see what you mean
[02:09] <sabdfl> so, say there are 5 candidates, we want people to vote for their favourites, and the winner is the top 3
[02:12] <salgado> I think we can use the preferential voting (which is currently disabled in the UI, although implemented) for that, but right now the results presentation is not simple
[02:19] <static> good morning
[02:21] <jamesh> salgado: you mean STV?
[02:21] <sabdfl> which is the admins team?
[02:22] <salgado> jamesh, what's that?
[02:22] <sabdfl> i've tried lp-admin, lp-admins, etc
[02:22] <sabdfl> oh
[02:22] <jamesh> salgado: single transferable vote
[02:22] <sabdfl> admins
[02:22] <sabdfl> salgado: if the results are understandable to the CC,that's ok
[02:22] <sabdfl> could you reactivate it in the UI please?
[02:23] <sabdfl> let me know when it will be there
[02:23] <sabdfl> best do some good tests on it too
[02:23] <jamesh> salgado: it is the multiple winner preferential voting system we use in .au for senate elections
[02:23] <sabdfl> we will need it for the CC nominations, planned for next week
[02:26] <salgado> IIRC, all we do is display a pairwise matrix with the results. then somebody will have to pick it up and use whatever algorhithm they want to calculate the results
[02:27] <jamesh> salgado: ah.  That's for the condorcet voting that Debian uses, right?
[02:27] <salgado> sabdfl, who should I talk to in order to find out if what we have is enough or if there's something that needs to be fixed?
[02:27] <salgado> jamesh, right
[02:27] <jamesh> I don't know how well that generalises to electing multiple candidates
[02:29] <salgado> jamesh, btw, you up for some quick tweaking on demo, so that we can have people testing the preferential voting polls?
[02:29] <jamesh> salgado: I suppose so.  Do you need anything more than updating the code?
[02:30] <jamesh> (which would have to be to the production/1.80 branch)
[02:32] <salgado> jamesh, all we actually need is to add a "type" field to the +newpoll page declaration in zcml/person.zcml.
[02:32] <salgado> is demo being updated daily or can we cowboy that change into it?
[02:45] <jamesh> salgado: I update it irregularly at the moment
[02:45] <jamesh> salgado: I can do the update, and make that change though.
[02:46] <salgado> jamesh, the update to production/1.80 is not really needed, I think
[02:48] <jamesh> salgado: okay.  Wouldn't it be necessary to update the browser class class to accept that argument though?
[02:49] <salgado> jamesh, good point... I'll send you a patch shortly with all changes needed
[02:51] <jamesh> salgado: okay.  I won't bother updating the code then.
[03:23] <sabdfl> salgado: mako, i think
[03:23] <sabdfl> he would be a good person to test it
[03:23] <sabdfl> if we can't run the election next week, then definitely need to do it the week after
[03:23] <sabdfl> pls discuss with kiko
[03:24] <sabdfl> kiko: from the monthly report: "Therelationshipbetweenateamandthepersonloggedinisnowdisplayedusingapathdiagram.",where can i see that?
[03:24] <kiko> sabdfl, on edge, I believe.
[03:24] <kiko> salgado, have you seen this patch live?
[03:26] <salgado> kiko, on staging, yes
[03:28] <kiko> cool
[03:28] <salgado> kiko, for instance, I can see it when looking at the beta-testers team, since I'm an indirect member of it
[03:29] <kiko> you are very cool salgado
[03:32] <spiv> salgado: Considered using "→" instead of "->"?
[03:33] <spiv> (or  bed, as the case may be...)
[03:33] <salgado> spiv, good point. I'll use it when I move it to the 1.0 page
[03:33] <salgado> btw, we don't have a placeholder for that in the 1.0 page
[03:33] <salgado> kiko, should I drop it or find a place for it?
[03:38] <kiko> a placeholder for what, salgado?
[03:39] <salgado> kiko, for the path from the logged in user to the team he's an indirect member of
[03:40] <kiko> salgado, in the 1.0 person page you mean then? yes, we need that!
[04:04] <radix> ddaa: this font thing is going to get dramatic :)
[04:04] <ddaa> microdramatic
[04:05] <ddaa> I understand that mark likes it small
[04:05] <ddaa> but it's still a bug
[04:05] <radix> is it a bug if my eyes bleed?
[04:09] <jam> how do you sign up for beta, again? You can pm me if you prefer
[04:13] <Yannig> Hello everybody :)
[04:20] <Cillian> Hi
[04:23] <Cillian> Anybody know anything about preparing a program for translation with gettext?
[04:23] <Cillian> (C/C++)
[04:25] <Yannig> I have no idea :(
[04:25] <Cillian> I'm having trouble getting a hello world program to translate :S
[04:27] <carlos> Cillian: there is a manual from the FSF for that, let me find the URL
[04:28] <Yannig> O carlos :)
[04:28] <Yannig> Bad luck for you, I'm here :D
[04:28] <Yannig> I'd have two questions :)
[04:28] <carlos> Cillian: http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/html_chapter/gettext_3.html#SEC13
[04:28] <Yannig> (if you have  time) :)
[04:29] <carlos> Yannig: talking with you is never having bad luck ;-)
[04:29] <carlos> Yannig: what could I do for you today?
[04:29] <Yannig> Don't say that before ;)
[04:29] <carlos> X-)
[04:29] <Cillian> carlos: That's the manual I've been following so far
[04:29] <Yannig> There is a package called firefox-launchpad-integration. What for? Firefox cannot be translated via Rosetta :P
[04:30] <Cillian> Every thing goes absolutely fine, except when I set LANG to de, run the program, it still outputs in english
[04:30] <Cillian> I'm currently trying to find a way to see exactly what's going on
[04:30] <jamesh> Yannig: yet
[04:30] <carlos> Cillian: try with LC_MESSAGE too
[04:31] <Yannig> jamesh: So it's in project?
[04:31] <carlos> Yannig: as far as I know, that package is unrelated with translations
[04:31] <jamesh> Yannig: danilos has been working on it
[04:31] <carlos> Yannig: it gives you some kind of integration to search for packages, bugs, etc...
[04:31] <Yannig> I'm currently translating it into Occitan with gedit so I could be interested :)
[04:31] <Yannig> Fair enough
[04:32] <Cillian> carlos: I've been putting the mo in /usr/share/locale/de/LC_MESSAGE if that's what you mean
[04:32] <carlos> Yannig: if you mean the entry in the Help menu, it's added there by default in most applications
[04:32] <Yannig> Thanks
[04:32] <Yannig> Second question now :)
[04:32] <Yannig> Have you seen https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/83993 ?
[04:32] <carlos> Cillian: no, I'm talking about another environment variable, LC_MESSAGES (I forgot the last 'S')
[04:33] <Cillian> Ah yeh, I just tried it with setting that to de too, still in english...
[04:33] <carlos> Cillian: also, executing your application with 'strace' (redirect the error output to a file or you will miss anything useful)
[04:33] <carlos> Cillian: so you can see whether you try to open the .mo file so you can get a clue of the problem
[04:33] <Cillian> Right
[04:34] <Cillian> Interesting, with LANG and LC_MESSAGES as de, man just said
[04:34] <carlos> Yannig: no, let me check...
[04:34] <Cillian> man: can't set the locale; make sure $LC_* and $LANG are correct
[04:34] <carlos> Cillian: are you using Ubuntu?
[04:34] <carlos> Cillian: try with de_DE.UTF-8
[04:34] <carlos> for LC_MESSAGES
[04:34] <Cillian> No, debian etch at the moment
[04:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 83993 in Ubuntu "Now locale request for Occitan" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[04:35] <carlos> well, that version should use UTF-8 too
[04:35] <Cillian> Is /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive relevant?
[04:35] <Cillian> open("/usr/lib/locale/locale-archive", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 3
[04:36] <carlos> Cillian: don't think so, grep on /usr/share/locale/
[04:36] <Cillian> Also, just before the write of the string I want translated, is:
[04:36] <Cillian> open("/usr/lib/locale/de/LC_IDENTIFICATION", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
[04:36] <carlos> Yannig: so... do you want to rename current language code or just add the new ones?
[04:36] <Cillian>  /de/ shows it's reading the environment variable
[04:37] <Cillian> Grepping for /usr/share/locale only shows:
[04:37] <Cillian> open("/usr/share/locale/locale.alias", O_RDONLY) = 3
[04:37] <Yannig> carlos: Well, the current language code is for all Occitan so we'd need both: rename the current one to lnc and creating a new one for gsc
[04:39] <carlos> Cillian: then, your application doesn't know about your translation domain, you should check
[04:39] <carlos> setlocale (LC_ALL, "");
[04:39] <carlos>   bindtextdomain (PACKAGE, LOCALEDIR);
[04:39] <carlos>   textdomain (PACKAGE);
[04:40] <carlos> your code should have those calls with the right values as arguments
[04:40] <carlos> Yannig: hmmm
[04:40] <carlos> Yannig: that's not easy to do (thinking on Ubuntu released versions)
[04:41] <carlos> but we would get something done as a workaround so new releases can use new code
[04:41] <carlos> but already releases keep using the old one...
[04:42] <Yannig> Yep, that's it
[04:42] <Cillian> Ok, interesting - with my LANG as default, strace shows the program looking in /usr/share/locale/en/LC_MESSAGES/hello.mo, and getting "No such file or directory", since I haven't translated to en
[04:42] <Cillian> But with the LANG as de, it just does open("/usr/lib/locale/de/LC_IDENTIFICATION", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
[04:43] <Cillian> But doesn't look for /hello.mo or anything
[04:45] <Yannig> carlos: What would be nice is to make it possible for translation first. Afterwards, we don't need it implemented in Ubuntu very very soon.
[04:47] <carlos> Cillian: did you add support for German language in your system?
[04:49] <Cillian> carlos: Err, when/where do I do that?
[04:49] <carlos> Cillian: I think in Debian is done editing /etc/locale-gen.conf
[04:49] <carlos> or something like that
[04:49] <carlos> and then executing the command 'locale-gen'
[04:49] <carlos> but you will need to check that with a Debian user
[04:49] <Cillian> /etc/locale.gen b y the looks of it
[04:49] <carlos> Ubuntu does it automatically when installing German language pack
[04:49] <Cillian> Yeh, I have de_DE in there
[04:50] <carlos> then, execute locale-gen
[04:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #83993 in language-pack-oc-base "Now locale request for Occitan" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83993
[04:50] <Cillian> Ok, did that
[04:51] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84908 in launchpad "Browsing for icons doesn't set radio box" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84908
[04:51] <carlos> Yannig: well, the locale information will be needed before Feisty frozen and we need to 'fix' language packs to handle that for previous Ubuntu releases so they are not affected once we do the rename in Launchpad
[04:51] <carlos> Cillian: you should get some output saying it's generating German locale
[04:52] <Yannig> carlos: So would it be possible or is that too late about you?
[04:52] <Cillian> Hey, whoa
[04:52] <Cillian> I don't know what I just did, but it just worked
[04:53] <Cillian> Yeh, after running locale-gen, copying the .mo to /usr/share/locale/de_DE/LC_MESSAGES instead of /de/, then using LANG=de_DE instead of de, and it works
[04:54] <carlos> Yannig: I need Martin Pitt input on that
[04:55] <carlos> Yannig: if you provide us with the new locale information, I don't think we are too late
[04:55] <carlos> given the fact Feisty is not yet open to translations
[04:55] <Cillian> THanks, /me begins readying tuxcast for translation
[04:55] <Yannig> Anything I can do?
[04:55] <carlos> Yannig: the locale is another history, so we need to prepare any new package required by this change
[04:55] <mdz> ddaa: where can I find an up-to-date list of working VCS imports?
[04:55] <ddaa> working?
[04:56] <carlos> Yannig: provide us with the locale information for the new language code
[04:56] <ddaa> I know the database query to give you a list of syncs that worked the last time they were tried.
[04:56] <Yannig> What kind? :(
[04:56] <carlos> I guess for the other is fine to just go ahead and rename 'oc'
[04:56] <ddaa> mdz: would a list of $product/$series do for you?
[04:57] <carlos> Yannig: you should talk with danilo or Jordi about that
[04:57] <carlos> Yannig: also, you should get this sorted in GNOME nad KDE
[04:57] <carlos> I need to leave to have lunch
[04:57] <Yannig> Yep
[04:57] <carlos> let's talk when I'm back
[04:57] <carlos> ok?
[04:58] <Yannig> GNOME has not given me a SVN account yet so it may be later
[04:58] <mdz> ddaa: a list of URLs to Launchpad code pages would do
[04:59] <Yannig> carlos: Do you have their address?
[04:59] <ddaa> I can handcraft you that
[04:59] <mdz> ddaa: though it would be even better to have a page which automatically stayed up-to-date so that we could see at a glance what's available
[04:59] <ddaa> mdz: I whole-heartedly agree
[04:59] <Yannig> I asked<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and<EMAIL_ADDRESS>but they told me they are not the one to ask :)
[05:00] <ddaa> mdz: if you file a bug, I'll try to get jml to do it
[05:01] <mdz> ddaa: where should I file it?
[05:01] <ddaa> launchpad-bazaar product
[05:01] <ddaa> now that we have an actual team working on this stuff, this sort of feature request stand an actual chance of getting implemented.
[05:10] <mdz> ddaa: bug 84913
[05:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 84913 in launchpad-bazaar "List of available, verified VCS imports" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84913
[05:10] <ddaa> mh... btw, thumper has done some recent work for the 1.0 UI
[05:11] <ddaa> that will create a page that lists products with bzr branches
[05:12] <Yannig> Thanks a lot carlos
[05:12] <Yannig> I hope it will work :)
[05:12] <ddaa> mdz: bug 76476
[05:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 76476 in launchpad-bazaar "stuff you can get with bzr" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76476 - Assigned to Tim Penhey (thumper)
[05:12] <ddaa> mdz: how is what you want different from this?
[05:13] <mdz> ddaa: that bug is a superset of what I want.  the difference is that I wasted 10 minutes filing mine because you asked me to.
[05:13] <ddaa> not really
[05:13] <ddaa> because I am not sure what you want
[05:14] <ddaa> but hey, vent on me if that helps you feel better
[05:14] <mdz> believe me, it doesn't
[05:14] <radix> "stuff you can get with bzr" sounds like a badly specified bug, without reading the content :)
[05:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84913 in launchpad-bazaar "List of available, verified VCS imports" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84913
[05:35] <sabdfl> mdz: what you want is to know which mainlines are available in bzr, whether that is native or an import
[05:35] <mdz> sabdfl: in practice, the mainlines available natively in bzr are the ones we created because we're upstream
[05:36] <mdz> but yes, you're correct
[05:40] <sabdfl> of course we hope that vista will widen significantly ;-)
[05:40] <sabdfl> a query for "development series with branches" is trivial to do, can knock up a page for you on beta easily enough, or ddaa can do the same
[05:42] <sabdfl> Product.select("Product.development_focus=ProductSeries.id AND ProductSeries.xxx_branch IS NOT NULL")
[05:42] <sabdfl> isay xxx_branch because i'm not exactly sure of the db semantics ddaa has run with there
[05:42] <ddaa> thumper has a significant work in the pipe, to do this, and more correctly
[05:42] <sabdfl> ddaa: not necessarily more correctly, AIUI
[05:43] <sabdfl> thumper's work will get you "stuff that is available in bzr" even if it is not officila
[05:43] <sabdfl> whereas getting mainlines is useful to mdz
[05:43] <sabdfl> getting stable series branches would i think be even more so!
[05:43] <ddaa> last I talked about what thumper was doing it was restriced to stuff associated to product series
[05:44] <ddaa> so maybe somebody asked him to do it differently, but if so, I haven't been told.
[05:44] <mdz> it remains to be seen whether I can find a way for mainlines to be useful, but as you asked, I intend to try
[05:46] <ddaa> one of the problems here was how not to list series with an import branch which is currently failing to import
[05:46] <ddaa> and I did work specifically to remove this blocker
[05:46] <ddaa> (been in production for a few weeks already)
[05:47] <ddaa> unfortunately, thumper has been spending most of his time writing stuff for the 1.0 UI, and I have spent most of my time lowering the latency of the hosting service for SteveA's lightning talk at PyCon.
[05:48] <ddaa> and hooking the branch hosting stuff with a Q&A-able error reporting system
[05:48] <ddaa> so stuff _is_ coming down, but we still only have so much bandwidth.
[05:48] <sabdfl> ok
[05:48] <sabdfl> sounds positive
[05:49] <ddaa> sabdfl: btw
[05:49] <ddaa> got to tell you I'm very glad to have thumper and jml on the team now
[05:49] <ddaa> now we actually have the resources to make our users happy
[05:50] <ddaa> there has been some very good progress recently, even though most of it is still in the pipes.
[05:50] <ddaa> Hopefully, within in a month you should see some very visible improvements.
[05:51] <sabdfl> yes, i'm very happy with how things are getting unblocked, and happy that you are getting to focus on the things you want to get done
[05:52] <jordi> Yannig: sorry for coming in late
[05:53] <jordi> Yannig: using "oc" is not an option I guess?
[05:56] <Yannig> Hi jordi :)
[05:56] <Yannig> Well, Lengadocian is considered as a standard but not by everybody so it could be difficult :$
[05:57] <Yannig> But if we could have oc-lnc and oc-gsc, it could be fine
[05:57] <Yannig> (or else, I'm not a technician, I don't know what would be easier for you)
[05:57] <carlos> Yannig: well, you will need to contact the Occitan translation group for GNOME, KDE and other projects that already have Occitan translations (I don't remember whether you are already the coordinator for GNOME)
[05:58] <Yannig> carlos: Yep, I'm the coordinator (and I'm more or less the team too :D ) for Ubuntu, GNOME and KDE
[05:59] <Yannig> So I already contacted myself about this and I completely agree with me :D
[05:59] <carlos> Yannig: so you don't need to contact anyone, you need to rename those files in their SVN repositories
[06:00] <carlos> for Ubuntu, we will do it for you
[06:00] <Yannig> There is no occitan file in their SVN repository (no SVN account yet for GNOME) and neither is there in KDE
[06:00] <carlos> oh, really?
[06:00] <carlos> then you should only change the information about your team
[06:00] <Yannig> Yep: I've been waiting for an GNOME account for ages :(
[06:01] <jordi> Yannig: hrm
[06:01] <jordi> I'll ty helping you on that front again
[06:01] <jordi> Ie, I'll mail someone recommending you if that helps
[06:02] <carlos> Yannig: did you send an email to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:02] <Yannig> Yep
[06:02] <carlos> jordi: go, go, go!
[06:02] <carlos> :-P
[06:02] <Yannig> I send all the information with a wrong file
[06:02] <jordi> Yannig: in my system, update-manager does have an "oc" translation
[06:02] <Yannig> They answered me that the file was wrong, I sent the good one and no news now
[06:02] <carlos> jordi: would you be able to assist Yannig to get the new locale information ?
[06:03] <carlos> jordi: that's because Ubuntu has Occitan translations ;-)
[06:03] <Yannig> jordi: I translate from Rosetta so Ubuntu can be in Oc
[06:03] <carlos> jordi: and update-manager uses Rosetta to handle translations too
[06:03] <jordi> I know
[06:03] <jordi> I wasn't sure yannig was doing translations in rosetta already :)
[06:03] <carlos> so I guess if you are using Debian, mvo moved that file to the non Ubuntu tarball
[06:03] <jordi> ok
[06:04] <jordi> yes, the system I checked is Debian
[06:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #31290 in dilys "Dilys doesn't announce new Malone bugs any more" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/31290
[06:09] <Yannig> jordi: I'm at about 12,2 % on Rosetta :)
[06:10] <Yannig> and as explained it the bug I reported, some people would like to translate in another Occitan than mine :)
[06:11] <carlos> Yannig: go, go, go!!
[06:13] <Yannig> carlos: Don't laugh at me :P
[06:22] <carlos> Yannig: dude, 12,2% of Ubuntu using Rosetta is a lot of work done, I'm not laughing of that!
[06:22] <Yannig> Great :)
[06:23] <dfarning> Just wanted to give you a heads up that I am running bughelper against firefox bugs
[06:23] <Yannig> When Gascon will be possible, Lengadocian will be in advance :)
[06:24] <dfarning> I have my connection throttled to 150K/s so it shouldn't be too disruptive
 jordi: would you be able to assist Yannig to get the new locale information ?
[06:40] <Yannig> jordi: Any idea of what I can do to help? :)
[07:01] <jordi> Yannig: I'd be glad to help but I'm about to go on vacation and won't be able to do anything until the last week of the month
[07:02] <jordi> possibly danilo can help you out better
[07:02] <jordi> basically you need to generate a locale file, which is pretty easy
[07:02] <Yannig> I'll ask him then, thanks :)
[07:02] <jordi> you'll need to provide the full names of the month names and week day names
[07:02] <jordi> and a few bits of other info
[07:03] <jordi> which will mostly be the same as in French or Catalan
[07:04] <Yannig> Fair enough
[10:51] <LaserJock> is there any way for librarian to give 1 URL for a source packages (something dget'able)?
[11:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84974 in launchpad "~ Tilde should be removed from URLs" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84974
[11:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #84980 in rosetta "Evolution 2.9.91 on Feisty translation Rosetta" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84980
[11:30] <mpt> Goooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
[11:33] <ajmitch> morning mpt
[11:48] <thumper> morning all
[11:48] <ajmitch> morning thumper
[11:48] <LaserJock> hi thumper and mpt
[11:49] <thumper> hi ajmitch and LaserJock