 Another bug 😬, a dark bezel near the edges of the screen
 @nsensfel [From Docker's page on what is a container, yes. It's similar, but all applicatio …], hmmm interesting
 @nsensfel [I believe it is the same indeed. nix provides binary packages by default, which …], oooh hmhm
 As it happens, this means that Rodney's point about Firefox being available on the container management system already integrated in UT reduces the use cases for using a prefix even further. Indeed, libertine appears to to have a pretty good system to interact from the host system to the container. A prefix would then be useful in that i
[03:41] <ubptgbot> t is directly in the host's system's file hierarchy and thus almost transparently integrated when using the command line. Except that UT can just install stuff using `apt-get install` for things you would want to have outside of libertine.
 [Edit] As it happens, this means that Rodney's point about Firefox being available on the container management system already integrated in UT reduces the use cases for using a prefix even further. Indeed, libertine appears to have a pretty good system to interact from the host system to the container. A prefix would then be useful in th
[03:42] <ubptgbot> at it is directly in the host's system's file hierarchy and thus almost transparently integrated when using the command line. Except that UT can just install stuff using `apt-get install` for things you would want to have outside of libertine.
 @nsensfel [As it happens, this means that Rodney's point about Firefox being available on t …], yeah for command line stuff it is useful, also apt is not supported for package installation outside of libertine
 I used `apt-get install` to get a compiler. I have not set up any libertine container, so I think if you enable read/write on the main partition, you can use it to install CLI tools without troubles (until the next OTA, I guess).
 as ut uses an images based update system; the rootfs is relatively small and changes made by apt are liable to be overwritten
 if a prefix install is similar to nix then there's a way to preserve the prefix across otas uh sort of
 The only demo of containers I've seen was support for LXC on SailfishOS. It basically ran a separate desktop/display that was totally isolated from the rest of the OS. If this is also the case with libertine, then one good point for prefix installs is that programs in the prefix can be made to look just like stuff you'd install using the
[03:49] <ubptgbot>  application store by adding an extra `.desktop` file in the right directory.
 You can install the nix prefix in your home directory to avoid it being removed by OTAs. You'd then have to modify the fstab files to mount it as /nixos (or whatever it expects) after each OTA.
 sure tho libertine actually made make the apps look like they where installed from the store
 @nsensfel [You can install the nix prefix in your home directory to avoid it being removed …], actually you can add `/nix` to `/etc/system-image/writeable_paths` to preserve the data
 that will bind mount it to `/userdata` which is also where the home directory lives
 That's good. 👍 … Then yeah, there's not much point in having a prefix over a libertine install (though I'll keep on using mine 😛).
 the main point of a prefix over libertine is full access to host filesystem :3
 .......that's basically it :p
 other then that there's no real advantage i can see :3
 Can you ssh into the libertine container?
 you can get shell access yes
 @Javacookies [well I guess it's hard to find that fits the launcher at the side unless it's sp …], I did a small app :p
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/aectGZn7.null
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/S0vLrkcN.null
 its not really a separate machine so wouldn't expect ssh to work, tho i never tried
 yessss
 ah yes, I've tried that already … would be good to have a proper solution though … i did a quick hack before but it conflicts with the app switcher and others😅
 @nsensfel [Can you ssh into the libertine container?], not directly … you can ssh to your phone then enter the libertine container
 Yeah, but for the use-case I was thinking of, ssh'ing to the main OS then getting a shell to libertine from there works just as well.👍
 @Javacookies [ah yes, I've tried that already … would be good to have a proper solution though … i …], i think the reall issue is the launcher judt disappearing, if can ensure it appears when it should, we could just hide it :p
 @Javacookies [ah yes, I've tried that already … would be good to have a proper solution though … i …], Ive done a hack that adds in the auto hide switch to apply in staged mode too, that works well
 @Fuseteam [i think the reall issue is the launcher judt disappearing, if can ensure it appe …], "when it should" is part of the problem
 users that skip the tutorial get lost really fast
 advanced users like us are just somewhat annoyed by the wallpaper being covered, but no real usability loss
 yeah, having the launcher shows is for discoverability … just needs to implement a way to hide and show it intentionally by users
 well the issue isn't really users skipping the tutorial, pretty sure they can't skip it, but sometimes the launcher disappears for no real reason
 @Fuseteam [well the issue isn't really users skipping the tutorial, pretty sure they can't …], the bug where it goes away when the drawer is open too?
 and debugging/fixing that is a pain.
 @mateosalta [the bug where it goes away when the drawer is open too?], yes sometimes that but its not limited to when the drawer is open
 @mateosalta [the bug where it goes away when the drawer is open too?], [Edit] yes that but its not limited to when the drawer is open
 @Fuseteam [well the issue isn't really users skipping the tutorial, pretty sure they can't …], that seems to happen when any of the app badges are updated
 ohw that's an interesting observaton
 so teleports then?
 maybe dekko
 well at least that's what I observed before
 yes those two are the common ones with badges
 are those the only ones with the number badges so far
 in short there are not test that checks that the launcher is visible and it should be and hidden when it should be
 @mateosalta [are those the only ones with the number badges so far], fluffy to3
 @mateosalta [are those the only ones with the number badges so far], [Edit] fluffy too
 and system-setting iirc
 I forgot about notification badges, do they still work?
 yes they generally work
 sometimes not accurate though
 yes?
 i mean do you not see them on teleports in the— ohw yeah they only should up in the launcher
 [Edit] i mean do you not see them on teleports in the— ohw yeah they only show up in the launcher
 Not as useful as I would like on teleports includes rooms I am in but not notified about
 I remember them not being super accurate, I just Haven't seen the badges in ages, I get notifications, get the green letter icon to, but I haven't seen them on the launcher in ages. … Might be a op3 porting thing, but idk how or why that would be the case?!
 I think it's up to the app to manager them so the result can vary
 @mateosalta [Not as useful as I would like on teleports includes rooms I am in but not notifi …], eh?
 So a really high number, wonder if it can be changed to only the rooms I select to send notificatiins
 ah that
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/xaL4FDrs.png
 It shows like 6754 unread messages, mostly from rooms I don't go into often and don't have notifications turned on for
 I think the app has to be open to get the bubbles to show up?
 @mateosalta [It shows like 6754 unread messages, mostly from rooms I don't go into often and …], that's flo's department i suppose;:p
 Maybe thats why I hadn't seen them in a while, I usually open the app, and then use the right swipe or dismiss it you know?
 do we still have the icon peek wiggle animation?
 i think push notifications also update them
 @mateosalta [do we still have the icon peek wiggle animation?], has that ever existed in Lomiri? I can't remember
 not sure
 I wish we still got fluffychat updates, I just see “+1“ for messages even if theres a lot and I see all the coon new features fluffychat be getting on android and ios with pure jealousy ! :')
 [Edit] I wish we still got fluffychat updates, I just see “+1“ for messages even if theres a lot and I see all the cool new features fluffychat be getting on android and ios with pure jealousy ! :')
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyinOKLge3Y
 someone was experimenting with it at one time :)
 maybe for the better that one didn't get in
 @mateosalta [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyinOKLge3Y], I both love and hate the focus, like its cool and good, but also what if I was just about to tap something but now my launchers moved to show me that someones jingling in the telegram app, so I hit the wrong icon?!
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWG-H0YO3JU
 hm, maybe some of it is in a launchpad branch somewhere
 I like the progress bar
 somehow I feel like the wiggle was there before … maybe a regression since the app drawer
 Progress bar should be added at somepoint, but theres no real need for that at the moment, the only things I can think of that would use that, are things that are gonna use the file transfer indicator to display its progress.
 yep, don't need because the downloads show in the indicator
 except for browser
 hm, there is code for it
 https://github.com/ubports/unity8/search?q=wiggle
 oh, there might be a test script
 we might have progress in there allready
[04:55] <ubptgbot> Hendro Kartiko was added by: Hendro Kartiko
 if so, maybe the first app to use it should be the system settings app with update download progress
 sweet
 (Photo, 1080x1920) https://irc.ubports.com/SLi1ZNpF.png
 test script works
 we have progress bars, just not implemented in anything
 @Javacookies browser downloads?
[06:12] <ubptgbot> James was added by: James
 @ggio01 [and i wanna use ubport on it], Hey. If you wanted to try ubports in poco f1, follow the instructions in XDA: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/rom-ubports-gsi-ubuntu-touch-for-poco-f1-pie-based-alpha-unofficial.4133513/
 Where can I report device specific bugs?
[07:08] <ubptgbot> Alexis Santos was added by: Alexis Santos
 (Photo, 960x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/vxENaXvi.png
 what's problematic
 Hello can someone send me the instruction to Port Ubuntu touch
 Or at least try and learn me how
 I don't understand....
 @Master_Technolgy [Hello can someone send me the instruction to Port Ubuntu touch], http://docs.halium.org/en/latest/
 But if you have Android 9 device
 https://github.com/ubports/porting-notes/wiki/Halium-9
 @Imam [what's problematic], https://github.com/ubports/ubports-installer/issues/1530 … This seems to be related. It does not, however, provide a solution that would work in your case.
 @RedFox3 [But if you have Android 9 device], No I have custom gsi with Android 10
 @Master_Technolgy [No I have custom gsi with Android 10], Was your device shipped with android 9?
 @RedFox3 [Was your device shipped with android 9?], Nop 7.1.1
 @Master_Technolgy [Nop 7.1.1], "If the target device has Android 7.1 or LineageOS 14.1 support, it’s recommended to select halium-7.1"
 So use first link
 @RedFox3 ["If the target device has Android 7.1 or LineageOS 14.1 support, it’s recommende …], I don't have lineage os custom ROM for my phone
 It is Samsung Galaxy A8 plus 2018
 @Master_Technolgy [I don't have lineage os custom ROM for my phone], If so it will be harder to port, but not impossible
 Go through a guide and ask question
 If something goes wrong
 Bbut beforevg Google your problems of course
 Look I don't know much about porting able to touch and I'm not that that old I am a 14 years and it's too hard for me
 If you please tell me the instructions
 I've already given all the instructions
 @Master_Technolgy [If you please tell me the instructions], Have a look here:
 ## Porting: getting started ## … http://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/porting/Intro.html … http://docs.halium.org/en/latest/index.html
 But porting is not trivial. If you are not up to it - I am not up to it - only chance is to either by a supported device or wait until your device is ported by someone else. Sad but true.
 Ok I accept the truth I'm very sad
 If others would not port devices, I couldn't use them. It does take a lot of time and some skills.
 Sadly phones are not like home pc's where you can just install another OS.
 What do you guys think about this?
 https://github.com/ubports/unity8/issues/344
[08:47] <ubptgbot> <S̶̡͎̭̜̖̏̌͌̏͌̍͐̇̽̔́͘̚͠ ͔̮> @Danfro [## Porting: getting started ## … http://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/porting/Intro.h …], Are there apart from pinephone more devices without vendor blobs that have the specification of a smartphone?
[08:47] <ubptgbot> <S̶̡͎̭̜̖̏̌͌̏͌̍͐̇̽̔́͘̚͠ ͔̮> @Danfro [## Porting: getting started ## … http://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/porting/Intro.h …], [Edit] Are there apart from pinephone more devices without vendor blobs that have the specification of a smartphone? (Fairphone?)
[08:48] <ubptgbot> <S̶̡͎̭̜̖̏̌͌̏͌̍͐̇̽̔́͘̚͠ ͔̮> @Danfro [## Porting: getting started ## … http://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/porting/Intro.h …], [Edit] What are devices without vendor blobs that have the specification of a smartphone? (Fairphone? Pinephone?)
[08:48] <ubptgbot> <S̶̡͎̭̜̖̏̌͌̏͌̍͐̇̽̔́͘̚͠ ͔̮> @Danfro [## Porting: getting started ## … http://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/porting/Intro.h …], [Edit] Which are devices without vendor blobs that have the specification of a smartphone? (Fairphone? Pinephone?)
[08:50] <ubptgbot> <S̶̡͎̭̜̖̏̌͌̏͌̍͐̇̽̔́͘̚͠ ͔̮> @Danfro [## Porting: getting started ## … http://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/porting/Intro.h …], [Edit] Which are devices without vendor blobs that have the specification of a smartphone? (Fairphone? Pinephone? Volla Phone?)
 as far as i know, only the librem 5 runs blobless
 but that simply means that some of the firmware is preloaded on usb-attached boards, and not easy to upgrade
 @rogieroudshoorn [as far as i know, only the librem 5 runs blobless], except for the USB firmware :P
 it's only blobless on the main board
 actually it's possible to upgrade the usb-c firmware
 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/firmware-tps6598x-nonfree
 didn't realize they had blobs for their usb-c controller ...
 every day you learn :)
 ah, it's for the DP-alt setup
 the pinephone also needs blobs for usb-c, if you don't then PD, OTG and DP alt doesnt work
 all of that is a firmware thing that can be flashed
 yeah - pinephone comes with wifi/bt and modem/gps blobs too i thought, even though they're simply handed over to the slave boards
 [Edit] yeah - pinephone comes with wifi/bt and modem/gps blobs too i thought, even though they're simply handed over to the usb connected boards
 i updated my modem firmware yesterday, that looked like blobs to me at least
 funny enough, the modem actually contains a linux pc inside
 so at the same time you're carrying two computers in the pocket
 yeah it's a qcom chip
[09:00] <ubptgbot> <S̶̡͎̭̜̖̏̌͌̏͌̍͐̇̽̔́͘̚͠ ͔̮> @rogieroudshoorn [yeah - pinephone comes with wifi/bt and modem/gps blobs too i thought, even thou …], Ahh, of course except the gsm blob I should have mentioned.. =/
 anyway, it's hard to go blobless right now
 in the EU, it's not legal to have a blobless wifi or modem (you're not allowed to play with antenna setups in every spectrum)
 so i guess this is where we are
[09:02] <ubptgbot> <S̶̡͎̭̜̖̏̌͌̏͌̍͐̇̽̔́͘̚͠ ͔̮> @rogieroudshoorn [in the EU, it's not legal to have a blobless wifi or modem (you're not allowed t …], Seriously? I did not know this. It surely has to do with safety, I guess?.. :-P
 the only thing you can do is put those on a seperate board over usb so you can trust your main board
 EU regulations are usually 50% what the public wants and 50% what major corporations want
 so take your pick :)
 there is once a regulation thing in EU that prevents users to hack their own locked down devices i think
 people protested it
[09:04] <ubptgbot> <S̶̡͎̭̜̖̏̌͌̏͌̍͐̇̽̔́͘̚͠ ͔̮> @RealDanct12 [funny enough, the modem actually contains a linux pc inside], You mean the GSM module by this? I cannot find anything about the linux part?
 yeah, there's nowhere near enough input / influence from the tech community on their tech regulations
 @S̶̡͎̭̜̖̏̌͌̏͌̍͐̇̽̔́͘̚͠ ͔̮ [You mean the GSM module by this? I cannot find anything about the linux part?], yes, that EG25 modem is a linux pc
 https://xnux.eu/devices/feature/modem-pp.html
[09:06] <ubptgbot> <S̶̡͎̭̜̖̏̌͌̏͌̍͐̇̽̔́͘̚͠ ͔̮> Thanks. Interesting.
 though, if you read further there's actually a way to unlock adb
 Guys, yet another problem
 Cellular data doesn't work
 Apn is okay
 Calls, sms work
 sorry for the question. Is the pinephone support 64GB SD cards?
 [Edit] sorry for the question. Is the pinephone supporting 64GB SD cards?
 @a1300_developer [sorry for the question. Is the pinephone supporting 64GB SD cards?], Yes: Expansion: micro SD Card support SDHC and SDXC, up to 2TB
 @ruditimmer [Yes: Expansion: micro SD Card support SDHC and SDXC, up to 2TB], thank you 👍
 If there is someone look for second hand Pinephone or know someone i have one for sale, you can contact me via pm.
[11:16] <ubptgbot> hfcm27 was added by: hfcm27
 @mateosalta [So a really high number, wonder if it can be changed to only the rooms I select …], Feature request yes ^^
 @mateosalta [@Javacookies browser downloads?], is there an API to use that? … browser has its own download implementation at the moment, it's not using the indicator because of some blockers since dropping oxide I think
 @branja6 [https://github.com/ubports/unity8/issues/344], I've been planning to experiment with bottom edge in the app spread but I'm waiting for the workspace/multi-display support to be merged first … if ever the workspace is implemented even on phones, swiping down is for closing then swiping up is for moving to other workspace
[12:21] <ubptgbot> MoriOgaj was added by: MoriOgaj
 Has someone installed Calligra?
 @NotKit [regarding compositor problem, using edge may help with that as libwayland is upd …], Since UT makes it very easy to switch from one channel to another, I gave it a shot: Firefox does indeed supports the Wayland interfaces in edge and can start without Weston interfacing in-between. It doesn't display properly at all, though (I o
[12:39] <ubptgbot> nly get a grey bar). 😆  … I'll patiently wait and use the RC channel for now.
 @NotKit [regarding compositor problem, using edge may help with that as libwayland is upd …], [Edit] Since UT makes it very easy to switch from one channel to another, I gave it a shot: Firefox does indeed support the Wayland interfaces in edge and can start without Weston interfacing in-between. It doesn't display properly at all, thoug
[12:39] <ubptgbot> h (I only get a grey bar). 😆  … I'll patiently wait and use the RC channel for now.
 that's good to know anyway
 I tried to get ArchLinux ARM version of Firefox running and it just crashes for me, unfortunately
 @RedFox3 [Cellular data doesn't work], Nobody can help me? 🥺
 I want to use UT as daily device (
 probably need to report this to porter
 @RealDanct12
 @Javacookies [is there an API to use that? … browser has its own download implementation at the …], Dbus worked, not sure about the other
 @NotKit [probably need to report this to porter], i think it's a treewide issue
 mobile data doesn't work on pro1 either
 yep, but means it needs to be looked into and fixed anyway :)
 @RealDanct12 [i think it's a treewide issue], Oh
 Okay, thanks for the answer
 so if you need celluar network, if you have another sim card as data then you can tether it as a workaround for now
 @RealDanct12 [i think it's a treewide issue], u mean on today's devel?
 @NotKit [yep, but means it needs to be looked into and fixed anyway :)], fp3 maintainer fixed it
 worked on a2 as well
 @just_carlod [u mean on today's devel?], devel, rc, stable all of them
 @Shouko [fp3 maintainer fixed it], what is the fix?
 @just_carlod [u mean on today's devel?], he means android9 i think
 on mi a2 cebular data works fine (2020-12-03) image
 @NotKit [what is the fix?], overlay/system/etc/ofono/main.conf … [ModemManager] … AutoSelectDataSim=always
 by default it is set to true I think
 https://gitlab.com/ubports/core/rootfs-builder-debos/-/blob/master/android9/overlay/etc/ofono/main.conf - it's mine mistake here
 It switch 2g/3g/4g but activate-context return "GSI not attached"
 @Shouko [overlay/system/etc/ofono/main.conf … [ModemManager] … AutoSelectDataSim=always], Okay I will try it
 Thank you very much!
 @RedFox3 [Okay I will try it], Yeeeah!!!
 It worked!
 You are the best, guys!
 We do have very wonderful connunity members!
 @RealDanct12 [devel, rc, stable all of them], I have small list with lavender Ubuntu touch bugs and issues. Where should I report about them?
 github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch
 it's a port that's available in the installer, so it can be reported there
 Okay, I thought there is some device specific github repository
 Thanks
 we've moved away from device specific repository for sometime now
 @RealDanct12 [we've moved away from device specific repository for sometime now], Ok
 @RedFox3 [Okay, I thought there is some device specific github repository], well if the bugs are in some app, they may need to be reported elsewhere. so check the openstore page for an app to see if it has a link for where to report issues
 but general system UT issues can be reported where dan linked
 @dohbee [well if the bugs are in some app, they may need to be reported elsewhere. so che …], No, its os issues
 for anyone passing by, if you're installing a GSI image from twrp recovery or whatever, DO NOT REPORT IT THERE. you're on your own, good luck
 Another question: does anbox support notifications?
 it does not
 anbox is also not really perfect as well
 but currently ubports foundation is looking for people to work on it
 Ok
 I just have 2 messengers that doesn't have a ubports alternative
 anyway i suggest you stay with native apps if you can
 webapp is acceptable too
 And webapp doesn't support notifications
 @RealDanct12 [anyway i suggest you stay with native apps if you can], I want to stay too
 But you understand
 My situation
 @nsensfel [Since UT makes it very easy to switch from one channel to another, I gave it a s …], i recently learned firefox-esr has a more responsive UI with the exception of the preferences page
 @ItsMeShouko [fp3 maintainer fixed it], wait fp3? thought that wasn't supported yet
 @Fuseteam [wait fp3? thought that wasn't supported yet], We have a promising port ^^
 cool ^^
 Why is LineageOS dependency for building UT?
 Can't we directly run a mainline kernel on the UT
 [Edit] Can't we directly run a mainline kernel on the mobile device?
 You can, but for any useful consumer mobile device, that is not a viable option.
 The PinePhone is one device which uses a mainline kernel and runs Ubuntu Touch. It is possible, but the tooling is not as well specified or documented.
 I just want to run Linux kernel OS and a browser. Most apps are available in web apps as well. So don't see any requirement for either android or lineageos
 Most mainline kernels for recent mobile devices do not have the modem working.
 is't that handled by the drivers and vendor blobs?
 They aren't there if you aren't using Android
 Two issues.
 For motorola I see the drivers in this link https://github.com/MotorolaMobilityLLC/kernel-msm/tree/kitkat-mr1-release-falcon-gpe/drivers
 Vendor blobs which run entirely in userspace are built using Android's libc, bionic. These blobs cannot be linked into glibc or musl libc programs.
 For that, we use libhybris to link and run bionic libraries in glibc programs.
 However, there is the second problem.
 Vendor blobs which interface with the kernel are generally doing so at best with vendor-specific patches which are stupidly difficult to forward-port (they break userspace), OR they interface with binary kernel modules. If you know about Linux kernel modules, you know that they cannot be used across kernel versions.
 @arunkumar413 [For motorola I see the drivers in this link https://github.com/MotorolaMobilityL …], looks like android kernel
 Other than vendor blobs what are we using the lineage OS for
 It runs things like rild and other services which provide convenient hardware abstractions.
 we aren't using lineageos. we are using halium, which is a minimal android build, and lineageos is primarily just a guiding force since it has ports for many devices already
 Does the OS process management happen at the android/lineage or the kernel level?
 The Halium userspace is run inside a lxc container. The Ubuntu system is PID 1
 Thanks for the info.
 in short, you cannot simply take upstream linux kernel tree and run it on an arbitrary android device
 I see only one browser on UT
 even the most well supported devices for that (ie Nexus 5) are still somewhat limited in what they can do
 UT is not a traditional PC linux distribution
 Are there any efforts going on to support more browsers
 If anybody needed more browsers they would've gone ahead and did that already, tbh
 anyone is welcome to make another browser that works on top of mirclient API and such
 @dohbee [even the most well supported devices for that (ie Nexus 5) are still somewhat li …], I'm running UT on my old nexus 5
 The constraint is most devices doesn't have lineageOS port
 Even fewer devices have a working mainline kernel
 @arunkumar413 [The constraint is most devices doesn't have lineageOS port], lineageOS isn't a requirement
 Some ports primarily use AOSP HALs instead of Lineage ones. Also, those devices without Lineage device trees most of the time don't even release their kernel sources anyway.
 This (http://docs.halium.org/en/latest/porting/first-steps.html#pick-an-android-target-device)  section says it's a requirement
 [Edit] Some ports primarily use AOSP HALs instead of Lineage ones. Also, manufacturers of those devices without Lineage device trees most of the time don't even release their kernel sources anyway.
 That's Halium docs, not necessarily UT. You either provide the hardware abstraction through some Android-compatible layer, or you use open source drivers directly, like the PinePhone.
 @arunkumar413 [This (http://docs.halium.org/en/latest/porting/first-steps.html#pick-an-android- …], it says the same things required to port lineageos to your device are required, not that lineageos itself must be ported already
 lineageos being there is good because it means someone already did work of making it compile. without lineageos it just means it is more work
 Thanks for the clarification. … Motorola has well maintained source code repos. Will try to port/build when I get some time
 Tizen architecture looks simple https://developer.tizen.org/tizen-architecture
 it is unrelated
 Yes. Just trying to compare things
 @arunkumar413 [Are there any efforts going on to support more browsers], In the Open Store search for "Onion Browser" for one that uses Tor and QtWebEngine. There is also a browser version with parental controls if you search for "Jade Diamond". Finally you can install the desktop version of Firefox 83 via a Libertine container, as wel
[17:58] <ubptgbot> l as a few other desktoweb browsers such as Dooble - but these likely will operate slower and clunkier than Morph does.
 @arunkumar413 [Are there any efforts going on to support more browsers], [Edit] In the Open Store search for "Onion Browser" for one that uses Tor and QtWebEngine. There is also a browser version with parental controls if you search for "Jade Diamond". Finally you can install the desktop version of Firefox 83 via a Libertine container,
[17:59] <ubptgbot>  as well as a few other desktop web browsers such as Dooble - but these likely will operate slower and clunkier than Morph does.
[18:05] <ubptgbot> <Heng Ye> are there ubuntu touch images i can install on x86_64? I have Asus Transformer Mini
[18:11] <ubptgbot> jm_my was added by: jm_my
 Hmmm, does libertine have notification feature? 🤔
 not exactly
 but what are you looking for exactly?
 @RedFox3 [I just have 2 messengers that doesn't have a ubports alternative], I'm trying to find alternative)
 Because I need notifications
 @RedFox3 [I'm trying to find alternative)], for what messengers?
 @dohbee [for what messengers?], First of all its VK and WhatsApp
 @RedFox3 [First of all its VK and WhatsApp], at least whatsapp desktop is i think only available for x86, and i'm pretty sure it would be paused while in the background too.
 probably you will need to wait until web push notifications can be supported by morph-browser, and then maybe webapps for those sites could use that for notifications instead
 Sad 😔 But I will wait for it)
 Im trying to make or find another way
 If there will be some success I will tell about it
 I'm trying to test installer for jasmine_sprout, but I get an error … TypeError: Cannot read property 'title' of undefined (MainRenderer:859)
 How can I fix it (installer v0.8.1
 [Edit] How can I fix it (installer v0.8.1)
 or maybe I should try on v0.8
 [Edit] should I try v0.8?
 Where can I correct translation of Settings application?
 @just_carlod [I'm trying to test installer for jasmine_sprout, but I get an error … TypeError: C …], ok, I guess config bug
 @RedFox3 [Where can I correct translation of Settings application?], https://translate.ubports.com
 @dohbee [https://translate.ubports.com], Thanks 🙏
 @Heng Ye [are there ubuntu touch images i can install on x86_64? I have Asus Transformer M …], yes/no. There is an amd64 qemu image for running on PC hardware or in a VM, but there's no x86 phone/tablet ports of UT
 i suppose you could try to dump the image onto a device and see what happens, but i suspect it will not work
[18:54] <ubptgbot> <Heng Ye> @dohbee [yes/no. There is an amd64 qemu image for running on PC hardware or in a VM, but …], would it be easier to try to install lomiri
 @Heng Ye [would it be easier to try to install lomiri], can you do a traditional ubuntu 16.04 install on it?
[18:55] <ubptgbot> <Heng Ye> yes
 then the qemu image for UT might work
 I heard that Anbox works on Pro1 but I failed to find the Pro1 image in the Ubuntu instructions, or specific Pro1 instructions
 Are they written somewhere?
 @dohbee [at least whatsapp desktop is i think only available for x86, and i'm pretty sure …], pretty sure whatsapp desktop is just whatsapp web
 @Fuseteam [pretty sure whatsapp desktop is just whatsapp web], pretty sure it's electron app and they only build it for x86
 @kabouik [I heard that Anbox works on Pro1 but I failed to find the Pro1 image in the Ubun …], you don't need to flash any different boot image; just skip to the part about installing ubports-anbox-tools and adb or whatever
 sure electron but i'm pretty sure it's just whatsapp web in electron i.e. you still need an android/ios phone
 I meant the rootfs Android image for Anbox itself
 @Fuseteam [sure electron but i'm pretty sure it's just whatsapp web in electron i.e. you st …], i think they did more for it than just having a web view with the web page open; just the same as slack isn't simply slack web site in a web view
 so it would be the same as just running whatsweb anyway
 @kabouik [I meant the rootfs Android image for Anbox itself], the anbox image itself isn't device specific
 @dohbee [you don't need to flash any different boot image; just skip to the part about in …], I was referring to that: http://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/userguide/dailyuse/anbox.html … I see  `wget http://cdimage.ubports.com/anbox-images/anbox-boot-$CODENAME.img` where CODENAME is a device, isn't it?
 i somewhat doubt that tbh
 @kabouik [I was referring to that: http://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/userguide/dailyuse/an …], you don't need that. that isn't an android image. that is the boot image
 just skip that part
 you can skip that part is what rodney is saying i believe
 So if my device already runs UBports, I should jump to: … ```adb shell # connect from your host computer to your UT device … sudo mount -o rw,remount / … sudo apt update … sudo apt install anbox-ubuntu-touch android-tools-adb … anbox-tool install … exit``` … ?
 @kabouik [So if my device already runs UBports, I should jump to: … adb shell # connect fro …], yes
 Thank you, will try
 @dohbee [i think they did more for it than just having a web view with the web page open; …], the first link on ddg seems to indicate there's official electron app for whatsapp 👀
 @Fuseteam [the first link on ddg seems to indicate there's official electron app for whatsa …], yes, that's what we were talking about
 *there's no
 wait there is?
 what
 oh it's only for mac/win
 so maybe that isn't electron
 so yeah, anyway, it won't work to get notifications in UT no matter how you do it
 (Photo, 420x238) https://irc.ubports.com/u8oWGBu2.png
 this?
 yeah wouldn't work, not sure if it's electron but it's deffo just whatsapp web
 it probably has some optimizations for downloads/uploads and hardware access but other then that meh
 anyway there was no need to keep discussing it beyond my original "it won't work"
 Hum, `anbox-tool install` stays "Anbox kernel is not installed! Please flash this first!` @dohbee
 I assume it's due to the steps skipped
 hmm, don't know then. maybe it's not got anbox bits enabled in kernel for pro1 ^^ @RealDanct12 @NotKit maybe knows better about anbox on pro1
 @dohbee [hmm, don't know then. maybe it's not got anbox bits enabled in kernel for pro1 ^ …], anbox bits are already enabled
 you need to do it manually though, i think someone here had a gist of what to do
 Any pointer on what is missing in what I am doing then @RealDanct12?
 Oh, that gist would help then
 "gist" referring to some actual material thing just is cringe
 If someone who knows where to find this gist sees this message, please ping me!
 https://gist.github.com/Vince1171/69cdcb2e90f2c70e3ee24de93da8caac
[20:06] <ubptgbot> <Heng Ye> How can I enable ssh over USB on the gitlab CI build?
[20:06] <ubptgbot> <Heng Ye> it always worked on erfan's zip files
 @Heng Ye [How can I enable ssh over USB on the gitlab CI build?], what build? for a device installed via installer that has working adb/MTP?
 He's probably talking about ubports 🤔
 Haven't tried gsi v10 but was working on v9 as far as I remember
 @XiaoAkay [He's probably talking about ubports 🤔], well this is the ubuntu touch group so i would hope so
 😂 yeah then adb?
 but GSI devices that are using RNDIS by default are not officially supported
 so i'm asking what specifically it is, so i can provide a proper answer
 pinephone for example doesn't have android at all, so no adb, and i think there's no way to do ssh over usb on it
 at least not yet
 Yeah ik 😅 people should atleast specify their device
[20:15] <ubptgbot> lebenscoaching Mona Maier was added by: lebenscoaching Mona Maier
[20:16] <ubptgbot> <lebenscoaching Mona Maier> Hi to all, does anybody know if Ubuntu Touch works on a Vivo V3Max?
[20:17] <ubptgbot> <lebenscoaching Mona Maier> I am only a user and have only basic Linux skills
 https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io has a list of supported devices (and information on where to go if a device is not supported there, so you can build a port yourself)
[20:27] <ubptgbot> <lebenscoaching Mona Maier> I was there but couldn't find where to go for unsupported devices.  The list of ports didn't include Vivo.  … But I dont know how to do this port thing myself...
 @lebenscoaching Mona Maier [I was there but couldn't find where to go for unsupported devices.  The list of …], there's a box that says `Create your own port!`
 Thanks for this Rodney.
[20:33] <ubptgbot> <lebenscoaching Mona Maier> Thank you for the help.  … But this sounds way too technical for me...
[20:34] <hallyn> eah
[20:34] <hallyn> (sorry, misfire)
 @NotKit [https://gist.github.com/Vince1171/69cdcb2e90f2c70e3ee24de93da8caac], Awesome, thanks. Weird thing is even after installing anbox-ubuntu-touch, there's no /home/phablet/anbox-data folder on my device. And I see in the gist it's supposed to be there, and to contain a sub-folder data/
 mkdir it
 I did but the chown -R on it makes no sense if it's empty
 I'm rebooting as advised in the gist, will see
 Seems to be installed, thank you @NotKit. Now I'll read how to use it from CLI because and maybe create some icons.
 [Edit] Seems to be installed, thank you @NotKit.
[21:51] <ubptgbot> <Andy Bleaden> @dohbee [well this is the ubuntu touch group so i would hope so], Either that or he wants.to speak  English
 So in case it is useful to someone else, to install Anbox on Pro1 running UBports: … Official instructions: http://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/userguide/dailyuse/anbox.html. Skip everything and jump to: … ```sudo mount -o rw,remount / … sudo apt update … sudo apt install anbox-ubuntu-touch android-tools-adb … anbox-tool install … exit``` …
[21:54] <ubptgbot>  The `anbox-tool install` will likely fail. You can do it manually using this gist: https://gist.github.com/Vince1171/69cdcb2e90f2c70e3ee24de93da8caac … Specifically, what I had to do was: … ```sudo apt install anbox-ubuntu-touch … mkdir -p /home/phablet/anbox-data/data … sudo wget -q --show-progress -O /home/phablet/anbox-data/android.img http://c
[21:54] <ubptgbot> dimage.ubports.com/anbox-images/android-armhf-64binder.img … touch /home/phablet/anbox-data/.enable … chmod -R o+wrx /home/phablet/anbox-data/data … sudo start -q anbox-container … start -q anbox-session … ```  … Then reboot. The next boot should take longer than usual. When done, reboot again.  … Anbox should be installed. You can check the conten
[21:54] <ubptgbot> t of `/home/phablet/anbox-data/` and also try to `sudo start -q anbox-container` and see if it is already running.
 Now `adb install` fails because it finds no devices, but that is another story and probably an issue just on my end.
[23:04] <ubptgbot> melikovali was added by: melikovali
 tell me can install ubuntu touch on Asus transformer TF101
 @melikovali [tell me can install ubuntu touch on Asus transformer TF101], That's all supported devices … https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/
 I want to install some mail client and only applicant is Derek 2
 Correct
 But why it has full access to the system?
 my device is not listed why
 [Edit] I want to install some mail client and only applicant is Dekko 2
 @melikovali [my device is not listed why], nobody has ported it
[23:14] <ubptgbot> <Heng Ye> I'm going to try out the x86 image on my Asus Transformer Mini where is it
 @RedFox3 [But why it has full access to the system?], Is it secure to use?
 although there are people who would do this atom, so desire burns and there is no opportunity to feel this beauty
 @dohbee [nobody has ported it], although there are people who would do this atom, so desire burns and there is no opportunity to feel this beauty
 @kabouik [So in case it is useful to someone else, to install Anbox on Pro1 running UBport …], maybe you can update the doc ?
 @melikovali [although there are people who would do this atom, so desire burns and there is n …], I have one of these as well as a tf201 and a tf300, I have not bothered trying to port them as the kernels are too low at 3.0, 3.4 or higher is reccommended to do a port, however you are welcome to try and port them yourself if you really wa
[23:24] <ubptgbot> nt Ubuntu Touch on it
 @RedFox3 [But why it has full access to the system?], it runs a background service in order to peridoically check for emails
 @mateosalta [it runs a background service in order to peridoically check for emails], So how TELEports works without full access?
 they worked with telegram in order to link the push server
 so no background service :)
 Okay, thank you :)
 google wont be so friendly
 in fact it might stop working entirely soon
 i think google was removing app passwords
 @mateosalta [google wont be so friendly], Google nowadays is ultra strict
 We can't use any browser to log in
 can't use any email client
 maybe even logins in morph might stop, but we need to test
 So glad that when I moved from Android to UT for my daily driver OS I made  at the same time a big effort to "de-Google-fy".  … I use Bluehost for my email; NextCloud caldav for syncing my events to Thunderbird Lightning, Gnome Calendar and UT Calendar; DuckDuckGo for my default web search; contact backup via manual vcf exports and imp
[23:35] <ubptgbot> orts; uNav and Here for my navigation; LibreOffice for documents and spreadsheets; UBsync and NextCloud for automatic backups of things like my phone's camera photos; OwnCube and Hightail for my cloud storage and file deliveries.  I encourage others to take Google's increasing adversarial relationship to third party apps and services to just break
[23:35] <ubptgbot> their chains as well.
 @TotalSonic [So glad that when I moved from Android to UT for my daily driver OS I made  at t …], It means that UBports is moving in right direction
 And the community work is really cool
 [Edit] And community work is really cool
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/GfRwGzwH.webp
 @TotalSonic [So glad that when I moved from Android to UT for my daily driver OS I made  at t …], did you need a domain name to get caldav to work with the ut calendar?
 @Fuseteam [did you need a domain name to get caldav to work with the ut calendar?], I just used a third party service for my NextCloud server as I was too lazy to set it up (it's on my to do list for future endeavors though) - so I am using OwnCube.
 ah so your calendar is also on owncube hmmm
 @Fuseteam [did you need a domain name to get caldav to work with the ut calendar?], [Edit] I just used a third party service for my NextCloud server as I was too lazy to set it up (it's on my to do list for future endeavors though) - so I am using OwnCube.com
 i wonder if i can sync my nextcloud calendar with owncube 🤔
 @Fuseteam [i wonder if i can sync my nextcloud calendar with owncube 🤔], Should be pretty simple to do.
 i mean i have a nextcloud server running locally on my laptop :p


[12:43] <DaSkreech> Is edubuntu going to take out the KDE Applications?
[12:43] <pygi> DaSkreech, not right now if you mean the KDEedu
[12:43] <DaSkreech> ok
[12:44] <pygi> future is ahead of us, who knows what is brings :)
[12:44] <DaSkreech> not right means at some point?
[12:44] <pygi> *cough* libburn *cough* :)
[12:44] <pygi> if we get a decent replacement, perhaps ^_^
[12:44] <DaSkreech> So there is a list of what need to be replaced?
[12:46] <pygi> DaSkreech, current KDEedu apps? :)
[12:46] <Burgwork> DaSkreech, it needs not a one for one
[12:46] <pygi> hey plotter mhz :)
[12:46] <DaSkreech> So you can dump say Kstars with no replacement?
[12:46] <mhz> hi all
[12:46] <mhz> pygi: heheh
[12:47] <lucasvo> DaSkreech: if it would be the only one, probably
[12:47] <lucasvo> one couldn't drop Kalzium without replacement
[12:47] <DaSkreech> That was next on my list :)
[12:47] <pygi> lucasvo, that's why you are writing replacement, bleh :P
[12:47] <lucasvo> DaSkreech: it's being replaced...
[12:47] <DaSkreech> I haven't played with KPhysics yet so I don't know what it is like
[12:48] <lucasvo> DaSkreech: https://launchpad.net/products/gallium
[12:51] <DaSkreech> This is to be easier on the libs or the menu?
[12:53] <mhz> ogra: just in case it can be done... cibercafes near my area open only from 17:30 UTC :(
[12:53] <mhz> and most meetings are held lot earlier than that :(
[12:53] <mhz> can next edubuntu meeting be held after 17:30 UTC ?
[12:54] <lucasvo> DaSkreech: why do you want to replace kdeedu?
[12:56] <DaSkreech> I thought I just asked that question :)
[12:57] <DaSkreech> I was under the impression that edubunut was going to be weeding out KDEedu
[12:57] <DaSkreech> edubuntu
[12:57] <lucasvo> DaSkreech: yes, it is a goal...
[12:57] <DaSkreech> With what aim?
[12:57] <lucasvo> DaSkreech: but the problem is, it includes writing several applications.
[12:57] <lucasvo> DaSkreech: Gaim has aim
[12:58] <Burgwork> DaSkreech, there is a gtk version of kstars, but more primitive
[12:58] <Burgwork> DaSkreech, more space on the cd
[12:58] <Burgwork> no kde lang packs
[12:58] <DaSkreech> Ah.
[12:58] <lucasvo> Burgwork: not only on the cd
[12:58] <DaSkreech> Edubuntu is hurting for space?
[12:58] <lucasvo> not having to load kde on the workstation is also a plus
[12:58] <lucasvo> DaSkreech: yes
[12:58] <Burgwork> very badly so
[12:58] <DaSkreech> Hmm wasn't aware of that
[12:59] <DaSkreech> And you have more apps that you are looking to include I'd guess
[12:59] <lucasvo> and langpacks
[01:00] <DaSkreech> for gnome
[01:01] <lucasvo> yes
[01:02] <DaSkreech> Whats the usage of space for the KDE packages?
[01:02] <lucasvo> between 20-100mb I think
[01:02] <lucasvo> I don't know exactly
[01:03] <lucasvo> plus kde libs which also take up space
[01:04] <DaSkreech> how big are the lang packs that you are including?
[01:05] <lucasvo> DaSkreech: I think the gnome langpacks are about 8mb
[01:05] <DaSkreech> :-) And no space for them huh? :)
[01:06] <lucasvo> the iso is about 597mb afaik
[01:07] <DaSkreech> That's over 50 MB of free space
[01:07] <DaSkreech> Over 100 for most distros
[01:07] <lucasvo> I mean, 691
[01:07] <DaSkreech> Ah. One digit off ;-)
[01:07] <lucasvo> yes
[01:08] <DaSkreech> Yeah that does get iffier
[01:48] <lucasvo> I guess this pilot was a little bit too horny: http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1994-19.html
[02:05] <trainpic> anyone here?
[02:06] <trainpic> anyone?
[02:07] <LaserJock> I'm here, I suppose
[02:07] <trainpic> OK I just have one question.
[02:08] <jsgotangco> :P
[02:08] <trainpic> Is there any hack for Edubuntu 6.06 to enable local media support?
[02:10] <LaserJock> not really that I know of
[02:10] <trainpic> OK. I've just been looking around.
[02:11] <trainpic> btw this is my first time on IRC
[02:11] <crimsun> that's a spec for 6.10
[02:11] <LaserJock> have you asked #ltsp
[02:11] <LaserJock> yeah, it is being worked on for 6.10
[02:11] <LaserJock> but I'm not sure about 6.06
[02:12] <trainpic> ok. I know it works in the latest version of LTSP, but I have tried all the hacks on their website and none of them work. Thanks anyway
[04:45] <greg> hi
[04:46] <greg> hello all!
[04:46] <Burgundavia> hey greg
[04:47] <greg> I have elementary-age child and do some sunday school projects with kids.   May I ask, WHY EDUbuntu, vs. kubuntu or ubuntu?
[04:50] <Burgundavia> becuase it is built for those people
[04:50] <Burgundavia> it includes all the apps you need, plus a nice theme
[04:50] <Burgundavia> for schools, it also includes LTSP
[04:53] <greg> LTSP= Long Term SuPport?
[04:53] <Burgundavia> no, Linux Terminal Server Project, thin clients
[04:54] <greg> ah. k. thx
[04:54] <greg> I'm fed up with SUSE and considering that I'm finally ready to join the cult of ubunutu :)
[04:55] <greg> Just trying to decide on a distro.
[04:55] <greg> ... flavor of ubuntu
[04:59] <Burgundavia> I would use Edubuntu
[04:59] <Burgundavia> it comes with all the same apps as Ubuntu, plus  the educational ones
[05:01] <greg> k.  fair enough. thx
[05:02] <Burgundavia> no worries
[05:02] <Burgundavia> hey rodarvus
[05:35] <rodarvus> hi Burgundavia
[05:36] <ajmitch> rodarvus!
[05:36] <rodarvus> ajmitch: yes
[05:36] <rodarvus> hehe
[05:36] <ajmitch> hello :)
[05:37] <rodarvus> hello :)
[05:37] <ajmitch> except I went to sleep instead
[05:37] <lecaros> hi everybody!
[05:37] <rodarvus> about time I go to sleep, by the way
[05:37] <rodarvus> but lets talk before I go :)
[05:38] <ajmitch> ok
[05:39] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: meeting?
[05:40] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: hm?
[05:40] <Burgundavia> distro meeting?
[05:41] <ajmitch> that's in ~12 hours, I think
[05:41] <Cornellius> !meeting
[05:41] <ubotu> I know nothing about meeting - try searching http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi?db=ubuntu
[05:41] <Cornellius> bah
[05:46] <bimberi> now that's an idea
[05:46] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: right, I doubt I'll be awake when the distro meeting is on
[05:50] <bimberi> !meeting-#edubuntu is <reply> Edubuntu meetings are (usually) held every week on Wednesdays at 12UTC in #ubuntu-meeting. Agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda . All welcome!
[05:50] <ubotu> I'll remember that
[05:52] <LaserJock> bimberi: except they alternate times ;-)
[05:54] <bimberi> LaserJock: gah :)
[05:55] <bimberi> LaserJock: what's the other time - i went by http://www.edubuntu.org/Community
[05:55] <bimberi> ?
[05:55] <LaserJock> 20:00 I think
[06:03] <bimberi> !meeting
[06:03] <ubotu> Edubuntu meetings are (usually) held every week on Wednesdays in #ubuntu-meeting. Times alternate between 12UTC and 20UTC. Agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda . All welcome!
[06:10] <Cornellius> bimberi: :)
[06:11] <bimberi> Cornellius: hey, i aim to please ;)
[06:12] <Amaranth> dev team meeting is 11 hours away
[06:51] <Burgundavia> Amaranth: can you pm me a one line summary of where your soc project is?
[06:51] <Amaranth> hmm
[06:52] <Burgundavia> Amaranth: for the UWN
[06:52] <Burgundavia> you can go to two lines if you wish
[06:52] <Amaranth> Burgundavia: Not really. :p
[06:52] <Burgundavia> right, then tell me what you know
[06:53] <Amaranth> For a desktop it's nearly done, just needs some fine-tuning and polish.
[06:53] <Amaranth> I guess go with that
[09:34] <EmxBA> hi folks ;)
[11:14] <RichEd> ogra: ping
[11:27] <ogra> RichEd, pong
[11:28] <RichEd> hi ... i popped in last night to join the meeting which i thought was in the evening ... ZA was off on a National Holiday
[11:28] <ogra> dont worry, we all forgot about it ...
[11:28] <RichEd> i saw the conversation thread :)
[11:28] <ogra> we started it 40 mins late :)
[11:29] <ogra> and it wnet less than 30 mins
[11:29] <ogra> *went
[11:29] <RichEd> i'll check out the logs to catch up
[11:30] <RichEd> i'm going to send you a quick mail in the next 5 mins re Eric Harrison etc = needs 1 minute x 3 for a response for when you next have a smoke & cup of coffee please
[11:30] <RichEd> ta :)
[11:31] <ogra> i'll meet him in september btw
[11:31] <ogra> we'll meet at a ltsp hack session in michigan
[11:31] <ogra> (sept 14 to 19)
[11:32] <RichEd> that's the sort of stuff i'm asking about ... gotta link to the above ?
[11:32] <ogra> nope
[11:32] <RichEd> it may be a good plan to join you & him and do a 3 way ;)
[11:32] <ogra> its privately organized by sbalneav and jammcq from ltsp.org
[11:33] <ogra> redhat and probably debian guys will also be there
[11:33] <ogra> s we can work on the new upstream code of ltsp
[11:33] <ogra> *so
[11:33] <RichEd> excellent ... ties up at least 4 ways then ... leave comments for the email ... will let you know when i have sent it
[11:33] <ogra> yup
[11:40] <RichEd> sent ogra ... tx.
[11:40] <RichEd> hi cbx33
[11:40] <RichEd> owe you some responses soon :)
[11:40] <cbx33> hi RichEd
[11:41] <RichEd> quickie cbx33 : if we aren't going to get a Canonical stand at BETT is there anyone else who might allow you to piggyback off their location ?
[11:42] <RichEd> silbs mentioned the .org areas that exist in many large conferences
[11:42] <cbx33> hmm
[11:42] <cbx33> there are no such things at BETT
[11:43] <cbx33> BETT are stingy
[11:43] <cbx33> I asked if there were discounts for opensource projects
[11:43] <RichEd> could you check with the organisers if there are any other FOSS stands ... there may be some general FOSS or left wing socialist type missionaries with stands who would be happy for support ?
[11:44] <cbx33> I will ask
[11:44] <RichEd> tx.
[11:44] <cbx33> there was the FSF there last year
[11:45] <cbx33> anyone anygood with screen casting?
[11:45] <cbx33> I have an mpeg and an mp3
[11:45] <cbx33> i need to combine together to form a video that will run on a windows system in windows media player
[11:47] <ogra> cbx33, why not take byzanz and create a big gif ? thats 100% platform independent
[11:48] <cbx33> this is an 800x600 screen cast
[11:48] <cbx33> with an mp3 audio track
[11:49] <ogra> byzanz does 800x600 without problem ... but the sound is indeed a prob
[01:05] <ogra> RichEd, answer on its way ...
[01:05] <RichEd> thanks ogra
[01:06] <ogra> i ope i wasnt to noisy :)
[01:06] <ogra> *hope
[01:12] <RichEd> opening now ... will let you know
[01:12] <RichEd> :)
[01:15] <ogra> argh .. i made a big mistake in the cd handling code ... now i know why my thin client dies after 20min ... *sigh* dont open 65000 files in a row with only 128M main memory , thats evil :)
[01:16] <RichEd> thanks ogra ... good comments ... i'll send a short response with one more question / point of view in a little bit.
[02:05] <ogra> hey willvdl, welcome aboard :)
[02:15] <willvdl> Hi there, thanks.
[02:16] <rodarvus> hey willvdl!
[02:17] <RichEd> hi will ... greetings all the way from rondebosch
[02:17] <willvdl> Hi folks. Greetings all the way from Durbanville (this time)
[02:17] <RichEd> rodarvus & ogra & I had a chat around the email I forwarded to you yesterday ... all pretty much on the same page
[02:18] <willvdl> Yip, went through that. Thanks
[02:18] <RichEd> we're going to work on a schedule something like:
[02:18] <RichEd> 1) combined status update by end of Monday
[02:18] <RichEd> 2) tuesday to scan through
[02:19] <RichEd> 3) meet on IRC in #canonical-meeting on Wednesday
[02:19] <RichEd> this is for the core educational team = canonical employees
[02:19] <RichEd> there is a general edubuntu meeting each wed ... community et al
[02:19] <RichEd> we'll meet before that one
[02:20] <willvdl> Yeah, I just noticed that. Was yesterday so I noticed it a bit too late
[02:20] <RichEd> so i take it you've found the fridge events :)
[02:22] <willvdl> Yes. It's also mentioned in the title above which should have tipped me off first :|
[02:23] <RichEd> f.y.i. general edubuntu meeting each wed is in #ubuntu-meeting
[02:23] <RichEd> there are logs available at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/
[02:23] <cbx33> willvdl, there should also be minutes for each meeting
[02:23] <cbx33> but I've been a little busy to write them the last two weeks
[02:24] <cbx33> yesterdays meetin notes should be there by the end of the day
[02:24] <willvdl> great. I'm scanning through old logs so that I don't revisit anything unnecessarily
[02:25] <RichEd> and also general logs at: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
[02:28] <willvdl> The latter should make good bed-time reading
[02:29] <ogra> heh
[02:30] <RichEd> we got another lead from Africa yesterday via OEM & Support : Company has a government contract for 100 PCs for a youth project in Angola
[02:31] <RichEd> They're going to phone him today, and get an email addresa across to me.
[02:31] <RichEd> ogra: have we done anything in Portugese yet ?
[02:32] <cbx33> RichEd, did you get my second dodgy email :p?
[02:32] <ogra> RichEd, ubuntu/edubuntu supports 90 languages, so i'd assume yes :)
[02:32] <cbx33> I wish I could get my LEA to consider edubuntu
[02:33] <cbx33> they are so bloody minded
[02:33] <cbx33> totally pro MS
[02:33] <RichEd> cbx33: the one from Cameroon ?
[02:33] <ogra> RichEd, to test the pt_BR stuff rodarvus is a better bet though :)
[02:33] <cbx33> possibly :p
[02:34] <cbx33> ok grasynco has had some much needed attention
[02:34] <cbx33> it still won't do edubuntu yet
[02:34] <cbx33> because we have diffenrent isos
[02:34] <cbx33> that's a fix I'll release soon
[02:34] <cbx33> but it should do ubuntu/kubuntu
[02:34] <RichEd> ogar: pt_BR < does this mean portugese Brazilian ?
[02:35] <rodarvus> RichEd, ogra, willvdl: feel free to redirect any pt_BR enquiries to me
[02:35] <ogra> cbx33, heh, as opposed to the original script that only does edubuntu :)
[02:35] <rodarvus> RichEd, yes
[02:35] <ogra> RichEd, yep
[02:35] <rodarvus> brazilian portuguese
[02:35] <rodarvus> ugh
[02:35] <cbx33> ogra, yes
[02:35] <rodarvus> feel free to redirect any *pt* enquiries to me
[02:35] <cbx33> hehehe
[02:35] <rodarvus> (not only pt_BR)
[02:35] <cbx33> everyone hear the latest sounds?
[02:35] <ogra> the two first letters are always the language, the two big ones are the dialect ...
[02:35] <cbx33> wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSounds
[02:36] <cbx33> I'm going to try to get out new music teacher when they arrive to consider ubuntu/edubuntu for their music pcs
[02:36] <ogra> i.e. there are de_DE or de_CH or de_AT .... all germany, but different countries
[02:36] <ogra> *german
[02:36] <cbx33> cos it's so bloody great doing Music and studio work on ubuntu :D
[02:36] <ogra> (and dialects)
[02:36] <RichEd> okay, we're dealing with Angolan Portugese which is in my guess closer to Mocambiquen Portugese ... but should have a pretty comon base set with Brazilian Portugese
[02:38] <RichEd> cbx33: the language in the Cameroon mail may sound dodgy to you, but bear in mind that the guy thinks in a local African dialect, speaks in French and then needs to write in English three diffferent grammar constructions, never mind word translations !
[02:39] <cbx33> RichEd, I didn't mean it that way
[02:39] <cbx33> I'm not taking the mick, I mean dodgy in that, why do people keep sending these messages to me :p
[02:40] <willvdl> and probably used Babelfish for his translation
[02:40] <RichEd> not making any point ... just pointing out the unusual circumstances of the darkest continent :)
[02:41] <RichEd> ogra: de_CH is short for swiss german ... now that's intuitive ;)
[02:41] <willvdl> Silly question but how does one maintain the various <dialects> of Portugues and Spanish? Meaning, when it comes to Mozam or Angola etc.?
[02:41] <rodarvus> RichEd, angolan portuguese is quite understandable for brazilians
[02:41] <rodarvus> (its closer to us than portugal portuguese)
[02:42] <RichEd> good to know rodarvus : i'll forward on this snippet of info to Hande & cc you in. there may be a need for local language conversation and you could assist.
[02:42] <ogra> willvdl, we have language packs for most of them ... the translator teams in launchpad care more or less for the contents
[02:43] <ogra> indeed there mya be dialects we dont cover in their own langpack
[02:43] <ogra> *may
[02:43] <ogra> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=language-support&searchon=names&subword=1&version=dapper&release=all
[02:44] <willvdl> ogra, so are there pretty strong translation teams for the various African countries?
[02:44] <ogra> has a packagelist
[02:45] <rodarvus> RichEd, nice
[02:46] <ogra> willvdl, https://launchpad.net/rosetta has an overview (i never use it so i cant give you much hints)
[02:47] <willvdl> I have. Did some Afrikaans translation for FreedomToaster. At least I stopped when it reached the Creative Commons license description.
[02:48] <ogra> well, translating license text should be left to lawyers ;)
[02:55] <willvdl> ah. Points for Brazil there.
[02:59] <RichEd> rodarvus: what's the mother tongue in Argentina ? Spanish ?
[02:59] <rodarvus> yes
[02:59] <willvdl> It can be quite different at the best of times though
[02:59] <rodarvus> it has some small differences from the spanish spoken in Spain, but probably is even closer to it than brazilian portuguese to portugal portuguese
[03:00] <RichEd> rodarvus: I'll send you the MoU for Thailand today. please keep confidential.
[03:00] <rodarvus> RichEd, sure, thanks!
[03:00] <willvdl> I think spelling wise is very similar but certainly sounds very different :)
[03:00] <RichEd> rodarvus: please review & add comments ... add to your actions for Monday. we'll need to get a project plan up & going next week
[03:01] <rodarvus> *nods*
[03:08] <RichEd> ogra: sent a response to your response re US meet
[03:09] <ogra> yep, i'll get to it .... busy preparing for the meeting
[03:09] <RichEd> ogra: where do i find major events canonical calendar (not on the fridge) like sprint & allhands etc.
[03:09] <RichEd> ( not rushing you :)
[03:10] <ogra> hmm, it used to be somewhere on the canonical wiki
[03:10] <ogra> but i suspect its all moved into that horrible new system
[03:10] <RichEd> okay will look ... btw do you attend kubuntu IRC meets ?
[03:11] <ogra> rarely
[03:11] <ogra> only if i'm very very bored
[03:11] <ogra> :)
[03:12] <ogra> apart from kdeedu i dont go near any KDE software ...
[03:12] <ogra> and you'd need several horses to drag me there :)
[03:22] <ogra> hmm, no highvoltage today ?
[03:32] <cbx33> ogra, i havn't seen him for a while
[03:32] <ogra> he owns a spec that needs to be reassigned :/
[03:32] <cbx33> oh
[03:32] <ogra> i wanted to have that done before the meeting today
[03:33] <ogra> but well, then it has to wait
[03:35] <cbx33> :(
[03:35] <cbx33> what spec is that?
[03:35] <cbx33> just outta interest
[03:36] <ogra> the xfce stuff
[03:36] <rodarvus> maybe I'm able to reassign it?
[03:36] <cbx33> ahhh
[03:36] <rodarvus> let me try
[03:37] <rodarvus> ogra, its yours :D
[03:37] <ogra> yay, thanks :)
[04:17] <ogra> RichEd, if you dont mind, come over to #ltsp, jammcq (jim mcquillian) would like to hear about ubuntu dinners ;)
[04:39] <sbalneav> Monring all
[04:57] <RichEd> ogra: ping for a yes / no answer
[04:58] <ogra> pong, eve a longer one ... mdz seems not around yet in -meeting
[04:58] <ogra> *even
[04:59] <RichEd> did eric ever meet JaneW (i'm busy with an intro email) that's the Y : N
[04:59] <ogra> i think so, she started in sydney iirc ...
[04:59] <ogra> he was in sydney and in montreal
[04:59] <RichEd> and if you have a sec more, what's Eric's IRC nic in #edubuntu etc.
[04:59] <ogra> eHarrison iirc
[04:59] <ogra> with the capital H
[05:00] <ogra> but he's not in #edubuntu
[05:00] <ogra> you'll see him from time to time in #ltsp
[05:00] <RichEd> okay is it dan_young who pops into#edubuntu
[05:00] <ogra> yep
[05:00] <RichEd> and what does he nick by ?
[05:00] <ogra> he also writes on the ML
[05:00] <ogra> dan_young :)
[05:00] <RichEd> ahhhh cyptic ;)
[05:01] <RichEd> cryptic even
[05:01] <ogra> heh
[05:01] <RichEd> he also writes on the ML <- edubuntu-devel or edubuntu-users ?
[05:01] <ogra> well, until recently we only had -devel
[05:02] <ogra> i dont remember, but i suspect it wa -devel
[05:02] <ogra> *was
[05:02] <RichEd> okay ... will check out archives for some background
[05:02] <ogra> he does tech support ...
[05:03] <RichEd> i will also post to  k12osn volunteering to take on questions regarding edubuntu ... will ask eric first (for politeness) and will work out how to route these
[05:03] <ogra> point them also to the edubuntu lists ...
[05:03] <RichEd> at the moment, the questions/bugs are in the list, but no-one defiante to help ... it will be a good relationship point to start showing some responsibility
[05:03] <ogra> they could bear some more traffic
[05:04] <sbalneav> ogra: You know, one thing that Gnome needs is a way to select YOUR default printer, i.e., set $LPDEST somehow, as opposed to the printing panel which actually sets the CUPS default printer.
[05:04] <RichEd> yes, i'll do the one-on-one to get a idea of what is happeing & to be friendly, and then start making some routing sugestions
[05:04] <sbalneav> Where I work, we have several printers per server, and one thing Gnome could use is an easy way for people to set their individual printer preference.
[05:04] <ogra> sbalneav, i'm not sure gnome-cups-manager doesnt do that already
[05:04] <ogra> (i have no printers around atm)
[05:05] <RichEd> if i build up a slow steady list conversation, then it may make others on the list curious enough to investigate & evaluate
[05:05] <RichEd> and then aim for a edubuntu help page hosted in k12ltsp
[05:05] <RichEd> (softly softly catch etc ...)
[05:05] <ogra> yep
[05:06] <RichEd> okay ... will leave you to meet or code ... as you see fit :)
[05:06] <ogra> whats urgently needed is a forum ... many users dont lie mailing lists but go to forums
[05:06] <ogra> *like
[05:06] <ogra> the prob is that developers usually are the opposite way (me included)
[05:06] <RichEd> yep ... have a plan for that ... need to make sure we HOST a PEER-to-PEER forum
[05:07] <RichEd> and not get sucked into a WE'LL ANSWER your questions resource drain
[05:07] <ogra> PEER-to-PEER ?
[05:07] <ogra> you mean a forum gateway to the ML ?
[05:07] <RichEd> as in teacher helping a teacher ...
[05:07] <ogra> that gets very fast very ugly
[05:08] <ogra> oh, ok
[05:08] <RichEd> i.e. we help the proactive teacher who has a techie bent ...
[05:08] <RichEd> but that proactive teacher gets kicks out of helping other teachers
[05:09] <RichEd> (will need some moderation)
[05:09] <cbx33> RichEd, I hope you find some teachers like that :p
[05:09] <ogra> yeah :)
[05:09] <ogra> these are very very *very* rare
[05:11] <RichEd> i've seen it working with small business owners discussing & sharing problems
[05:11] <cbx33> teachers time is VERY limitied
[05:11] <RichEd> my assumptions:
[05:11] <RichEd> 1) they need to feel comfortable within their own community
[05:12] <RichEd> 2) they need to save as much time as they give
[05:12] <RichEd> i.e. find solutions from others as well as give solutions to others
[05:13] <cbx33> in my experience, teachers want everything done for them
[05:13] <ogra> the big prob there is that they wont give solutions, but workarounds
[05:13] <cbx33> they are very very difficult to work with
[05:13] <willvdl> There are some interesting movement on peer models in the south african education arena
[05:13] <ogra> you need a tech guy to monitor and tell good advice from bad one
[05:13] <cbx33> indeed
[05:13] <cbx33> that's my job :p
[05:14] <willvdl> Telecentres.org is also centered round collaborative learning
[05:14] <ogra> we have that problem with the ubuntuforums ... where you will find the worst workarounds ever
[05:15] <ogra> cbx33, fschoep is talking about sound themes in -meeting :)
[05:16] <RichEd> here's a cut & paste from a respected FOSS advocate in Australia:
[05:16] <RichEd> We need pedagogical arguments to increase FOSS take up, rather than a
[05:17] <RichEd> focus on price or freedom. We need to make the case that FOSS gives
[05:17] <RichEd> teachers more tools to enhance the educational opportunities of their
[05:17] <RichEd> students.  We need to foster peer-to-peer collaboration, and support
[05:17] <RichEd> teacher networks, encouraging them to harness the resources around them
[05:17] <RichEd> to teach themselves about Free Software.  A local Moodle group is a good
[05:17] <RichEd> example of this.
[05:17] <RichEd> many of the same points we speak about
[05:17] <RichEd> TSF is investing heavily in the same area peer-collaboration
[05:17] <RichEd> one of us must come up with a winner we can all emulate soon
[05:18] <RichEd> faith can move mountains
[05:18] <RichEd> (she's a big girl)
[05:18] <ogra> RichEd, thats about conten stuff ... i meant the technical problems ...
[05:18] <ogra> *content
[05:19] <ogra> for content a teacher driven support it perfectly fine
[05:19] <ogra> *is
[05:19] <RichEd> a small business person helping another small business person with say a tax question is not that different ?
[05:19] <RichEd> tax is a specialised technical field
[05:20] <ogra> my ltsp thin client doesnt boot ... what do i do ...
[05:20] <RichEd> but the person who understands enough at his own level for it to make sense, can often make sense to another "lay person"
[05:20] <ogra> "remove this and that line from this and that script, that worked for me"
[05:21] <ogra> afetr the next security upgrade his server is totally borked because the lines were important
[05:21] <ogra> the "this helped me" is the dangerous thing ... if nobody steps up and says "thats a bad idea"
[05:21] <RichEd> boundaries are needed ... and hacking scripts with a blindfold on is probably over that edge
[05:22] <ogra> in the ubuntuforums that happens daily and results in horrible things like automatix
[05:22] <RichEd> but there is a lot on the safe side where help can be given by peers
[05:22] <ogra> (a script wher someone aggregated 'all' bad advices )
[05:22] <RichEd> leaving the serious issues to the experts (who should have more time to attend)
[05:22] <RichEd> as i said, moderation will be required
[05:22] <ogra> its not about time
[05:23] <ogra> i answer about 20-30 support mails every day
[05:23] <ogra> i havent answered one forum post in my whole ubuntu time
[05:24] <willvdl> a techie can also be "embedded" into a forum to guide a conversation
[05:24] <ogra> you will find the same if you ask most of the other ubuntu devs ...
[05:25] <RichEd> ogra: differn't strokes for differn't folks ... techies prefer lists
[05:25] <ogra> yep
[05:26] <RichEd> ogra: what was Sydney gathering called (busy with that intro mail again)
[05:27] <ogra> UDU
[05:27] <ogra> ubuntu down under
[05:28] <RichEd> :) tx
[05:29] <willvdl> On tuxLabs the guys compiled a set of common or frequently occur issues/problems from the helpdesk data. This set was then either distributed onto the servers in the schools as part of the offering. It was linked from a start page and Jonathan was even working on a guided troubleshooter (xola) to walkthrough the problem.
[05:30] <ogra> thats the advantage of a helpdesk :)
[05:30] <ogra> on the ML questions are so rare that i even can implement the fix before it turns into a FAQ ;P
[05:31] <ogra> it gets better though recently :)
[05:31] <willvdl> thinking more in terms of how-to's
[05:31] <ogra> yep
[05:32] <ogra> the cookbook was awesome ...
[05:32] <willvdl> My thin-client is broken: step one-plug in cable
[05:32] <rjarett> which ltsp is edu 6.06 built around?
[05:32] <ogra> ubuntu ltsp
[05:32] <ogra> also caled muecow
[05:32] <rjarett> so nothing standard like 4.2?
[05:32] <willvdl> ogra: it was. we were working on a new version as I was leaving. The old one was still on K12
[05:32] <ogra> it will be ltsp 5.0
[05:33] <ogra> willvdl, we have a edubuntu handbook team thats doing the same ...
[05:33] <rjarett> "will be" is not something i like seeing
[05:33] <sbalneav> rjarett: The Ubuntu model is the one which LTSP will be moving to for future development.
[05:33] <willvdl> hmmmm. should see about getting those resources to the handbook team
[05:34] <ogra> willvdl, HedgeMage and pygi lead that team ...
[05:34] <rjarett> sbalneav  ok but short term when needing to patch or incorporate fixes for stuff like local flash media which works in 4.2, its a tad tricky to narrow down what code base to upgrade
[05:34] <ogra> (both arent here yet)
[05:34] <sbalneav> The LTSP, Ubuntu, Debian, and Fedora developers will be meeting soon to hammer out a common thin client implementation that will be fairly consistent between distros.
[05:34] <RichEd> willvdl: you can ask cbx33 for cookbook -> handbook contacts ... i recall hedgemadge is involved
[05:35] <willvdl> in fact, some templates are up on http://wiki.tsf.org.za/shuttleworthfoundationwiki/TuXlab/HowTo
[05:35] <RichEd> it will be in the minutes of the meeting 2 weeks ago
[05:35] <cbx33> HedgeMage and pygi
[05:35] <sbalneav> rjarett: At the moment, Ubuntu's LTSP doesn't include localdevs, however, ogra is working on porting the LTSP localdevs stuff into Ubuntu
[05:35] <rjarett> so before i load up a 6.06 environment, i am trying to determine if edu 6.06 would be best or just vanilla and 4.2
[05:35] <RichEd> they will be keen for input ... especially if it has been test driven by users :)
[05:36] <rjarett> im trying to do flash based authentication or smartcards, and local flash drives.  no users saving data on the thin client or server
[05:36] <willvdl> cool
[05:36] <ogra> rjarett, for an upgradeability and maintainability POV ubuntu is surely the better choice ... it will be a breeze to upgrade to 5.0
[05:36] <ogra> and you can just use apt-get for maintenance of the client chroot
[05:37] <ogra> if you rely on local devices *now* youre better off with ubuntu + ltsp 4.2
[05:37] <rjarett> my environments typically are setup and not touched for a few years.  rasther than constant upgrading due to buggy codebases
[05:37] <ogra> well, thats a bad security habit ;)
[05:37] <RichEd> willvdl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HedgeMage ... works from BinaryRedneck :)
[05:37] <rjarett> not too bad when it wipes itself out nightly and reinstalls a fresh vm
[05:38] <ogra> heh
[05:38] <rjarett> or from a clean dd image
[05:38] <sbalneav> rjarett: Could you please point me at a non-buggy codebase?  I'd love to be running one of those :)
[05:38] <ogra> lol
[05:39] <rjarett> i have a few thinknic client installations running strong 5 years now without any issues.
[05:40] <rjarett> and they supported local media
[05:40] <willvdl> RichEd: interestingly, we left off our HowTo by including the soft stuff and referring to edubuntu for tech related stuff. tuxlabs was moving closer to edubuntu each release so it was a pre-emptive strike
[05:41] <willvdl> I'll ask TSF if we can get hold of the outstanding info that's not on that wiki link
[05:41] <ogra> sbalneav, you had local media in ltsp 5 years ago already ?
[05:41] <ogra> why the heck did we meet and spec out a sane implementatin at all ?
[05:41] <RichEd> so if we merge on the technical side and the documentation side, then we have a great pool of knowledge & solutions :)
[05:42] <cbx33> ogra, tiny pm :p
[05:42] <willvdl> Zigactly. Ferpectly right
[05:42] <ogra> we should just have stayed with that code and not improve security and usability
[05:42] <rjarett> ogra  your attitude towards useful features is lovely "wait till 5.0"  very microsoftish
[05:42] <ogra> rjarett, i gave you two options .
[05:42] <willvdl> RichEd, there is a wealth of knowledge out there. Just need to filter it. Wouldn't want to rewrite the wheel :P
[05:42] <rjarett> larger security risk to store user files on the server or client.
[05:43] <ogra> rjarett, the better integrated implementation for ubuntu is surely the included one
[05:43] <ogra> but if you need localdev use ubuntu with 4.2
[05:43] <sbalneav> ogra: He must have done something on his own, we didn't have localdevs then.
[05:43] <rjarett> well id rather go centos and 4.2 than edubuntu and "wait for 5.0"
[05:44] <ogra> rjarett, up to you ... centos will get 5.0 too :)
[05:44] <RichEd> willvdl: can i suggest you start a mail link up to hedgemadge to let her know what is available in the rough
[05:44] <sbalneav> rjarett: I don't think anyone's saying to wait.  I think what people are saying is, "if you want localdevs NOW, go 4.2", if you want the newer way to do things WITHOUT localdevs, then wait for a bit.
[05:44] <RichEd> not suggesting you get deeply involved, but perhaps build a few bridges
[05:45] <ogra> rjarett, the advantage for you as sysadmin will be that you know how it works if you use it now ... apart from the localdevs and probably 10secs longer boot of the clients, its not worse than 4.2
[05:45] <rjarett> when i say local devs.. i mean, user plugs in their flash card, and all work they do is saved there.
[05:46] <rjarett> browser cache/bookmarks, everything.
[05:46] <rjarett> will that be in 5.0?
[05:46] <rjarett> or will i need to make a hack for that
[05:46] <ogra> no
[05:46] <sbalneav> rjarett: 4.2 doesn't do that.
[05:46] <sbalneav> Nothing does that currently.
[05:46] <ogra> thats not how it works
[05:47] <rjarett> i wish people looked more into thinknics deb methods
[05:48] <sbalneav> Localdevs will basically allow you to have plug in media be the same as plug in media on a regular stand alone box.  What you're looking for is a plugabble home directory.
[05:48] <rjarett> ohh well
[05:48] <rjarett> well, roaming home directories
[05:49] <ogra> persistent home :)
[05:49] <ogra> we could port that easily from the ubuntu liveCD
[05:49] <rjarett> no flash card = no ability to save files, and any work you do will be wiped out (i.e. browser cache)
[05:50] <sbalneav> Well, if thinknic does what you want already, why not simply use that?
[05:50] <rjarett> since larry ellison killed the company
[05:52] <willvdl> RichEd, will do. Wil make some round table intros. You still meeting JC tomorrow?
[05:53] <RichEd> yes ... haven't seen him appear as highvoltage on IRC today ... we've set aside time but need to confirm appt.
[05:55] <sbalneav> rjarett: Well, neither the current "stock" ltsp, nor ubuntu's LTSP does what you're looking for.  So either way, you're going to have to wait.  One way to shorten the wait would be to help get involved in the development.  If you're looking for this sort of thing, now would be the time to get your voice heard.
[05:56] <ogra> as i said, the implementation already exists in our liveCD  ... wouls just need someone who dedicates time to it fro porting
[05:57] <sbalneav> exactly
[05:57] <sbalneav> ogra: Do we have a page on the wiki somewhere for "wanted features"?  We should add this, and bring it up in Detroit Rock City.
[05:58] <ogra> sbalneav, usually we ask people to register a spec in LP
[05:58] <sbalneav> I could do that now.
[05:59] <ogra> i wont have much time after the sprint ... we'll release in october ... so things we work out in detroit will have t wait on my side until edgy+1
[05:59] <ogra> (i'll have to prepare the release between my return and release day)
[06:00] <sbalneav> right.  Understood.
[06:00] <sbalneav> but just for discussion.
[06:00] <ogra> yep
[06:00] <ogra> even for speccing it and writing a sample implementation :)
[06:00] <ogra> but codewise i'll be frozen in ubuntu
[06:06] <sbalneav> crud.  I can't figure out how to register a spec.  I'me hopeless :)
[06:06] <sbalneav> brb, work ping.
[06:07] <ogra> sbalneav, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+addspec
[06:10] <RichEd> i'm off to sort out supper for the kids ... end of my working day ... will be back in email later
[06:10] <willvdl> Cheers RichEd. Marilize's pizza has made my stomach grumble too
[06:11] <RichEd> willvdl: will confirm re: jonathan meet tomorrow
[06:11] <RichEd> i'll also pass on the angola email response & a response to cameroon email ...
[06:12] <RichEd> will chat in the morning. have agood evening.
[06:26] <sbalneav> rjarett: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/ltsp-persistent-home
[06:33] <sbalneav> rjarett: If you'd like to go and add some notes to the specification wiki, that'd be great.
[07:10] <rjarett> sbalneav  is that for feature requests or code?
[07:15] <rjarett> whats in the 6.06 or ltsp 5.0 as far as physical authentication?   like smartcards or time accounting?   or do i need a custom pam mod and system for that
[07:23] <Petaris> rjarett: Well, if you want smart cards you will need readers
[07:24] <rjarett> are there supported readers with the module already in the release i guess is what im after... or a HCL list for the release
[07:26] <Petaris> not sure
[07:26] <Petaris> but I think smart cards are supported
[07:29] <rjarett> because with 2factor auth, or incorporating the physical layer into a student/member id it cuts down the rate of "well that wasnt me... so and so guessed my password"
[07:29] <Petaris> right
[07:30] <Petaris> we get some of that here
[07:30] <Petaris> I'd like to do biometric
[07:30] <Petaris> see them try to wiggle out of that
[07:30] <rjarett> well the problem with those at schools or churches is adolescent changes :P
[07:31] <rjarett> like when i worked for the govt, our biometric readers would get thrown off by pregnancy
[07:31] <Petaris> really?
[07:31] <Petaris> even fingerprint readers?
[07:32] <rjarett> yeah more than 10% change in weight mixed with other issues
[07:32] <rjarett> fingerprint readers can be thrown off by size changes in hands
[07:32] <rjarett> cheap ones anyway
[07:32] <Petaris> retna scanners?
[07:32] <rjarett> too expensive
[07:33] <rjarett> but the govt used a mix of retnal and scales and pregnant women were messing up both systems.  not sure of the retnal reason
[07:34] <Petaris> according to the forum you should be able to go by the 2.6.x kernel HCL
[07:35] <rjarett> ok
[07:36] <rjarett> so im guessing the ccid basics here http://pcsclite.alioth.debian.org/ccid.html
[07:38] <Petaris> only way to know is to try
[07:38] <rjarett> yep
[07:41] <Petaris> drivers avaliable for debian so you could use those
[07:58] <sbalneav> rjarett: Sorry, back from lunch.  That would be a feature request.
[07:58] <sbalneav> If you'd like to add some thoughts to it, it'd help a lot.
[08:00] <rjarett> ill load up 6.06 in a few vms and see what comes up
[09:18] <mhz> hi all
[09:18] <mhz> ogra: did you get my bugging about next meeting schedule?
[09:37] <mhz> RichEd: are you there?
[09:38] <Caraibes> it seems a bit silent down here  :o
[09:40] <mhz> Caraibes: yeah, indeed, sometimes it happens so
[09:40] <mhz> "i see dead people"  :D
[09:40] <crimsun> silence is golden.
[09:40] <Caraibes> actually, I am downloading edubuntu right now, becauese of the new version 6.06.1, to see if it boots on my pc's
[09:41] <Caraibes> I have 2 small kids
[09:41] <Caraibes> and look for a good open source OS with stuff for them
[09:41] <Caraibes> i AM ON bLAG 50K RIGHT NOW, ON MY OWN DESKTOP
[09:42] <mhz> Caraibes: oh, i see.
[09:42] <mhz> Edubuntu is a great choice for family solution, indeed
[09:44] <Caraibes> THANK you for your advice  :D
[09:44] <mhz> neurogeek: ping
[09:44] <neurogeek> mhz hello!.. how are you?
[09:45] <mhz> neurogeek: alive and kicking but not internat at home
[09:45] <mhz> :(
[09:45] <Caraibes> see you !
[09:45] <mhz> so, this cibercafe thing is driving me crazy... I was so not used to it
[09:45] <mhz> :)
[09:45] <neurogeek> sad to hear that
[09:45] <neurogeek> i know what you mean
[09:46] <mhz> yeah, too many kids playing on line, to noisy, too crowded and everyone reads emails along with me, hehehe
[09:46] <mhz> neurogeek: last time I saw you you said "need to talk to you...important!"
[09:47] <neurogeek> yes..
[10:46] <mhz> neurogeek: see ya soon
[11:21] <Burgwork> ok, yum is slower than a dead cat embedded in molasses in the arctic


[01:49] <darkxst> Sarvatt, I fixed ppa-purge to work on multi-arch, and it works perfectly with apt-get, but when I tested with aptitude not only did it remove the ppa, but it also downgraded everything from quantal-updates
[01:49] <darkxst> I think this might be a different bug, but wondering if you have ever seen that before
[07:42] <dholbach> good morning
[09:43] <infinity> doko_: I note that binutils-gold is falling out of main in component-mismatches.  I assume that just means nothing build-deps on it currently.  Do we want to seed it explicitly, or are you happy with it dropping to universe?
[09:43] <infinity> doko_: platform/supported-development-common seems like a sane place for it, if we want to keep it in main.
[10:12] <hrw> wookey, doko: good news - armhf cross compiler has most of issues solved
[10:55] <diwic> If I have a package that's "Multi-arch: foreign", e g pulseaudio-utils (which only contains executables and no .so files, so I think that makes sense), how do I specify that for pulseaudio-utils-dbg only makes sense together with the same arch of pulseaudio-utils ?
[13:23] <cjwatson> @pilot in
[14:22] <bdrung> ScottK: okay
[14:33] <ogra_> would grep "^\([0-9a-z]\)\{8\}-\([0-9a-z]\)\{4\}-\([0-9a-z]\)\{4\}-\([0-9a-z]\)\{4\}-\([0-9a-z]\)\{12\}$" be a proper way to safely match a UUID ?
[14:34] <ogra_> or is there any way the format of a UUID could be different than 8-4-4-4-12 on ext2/3/4 ?
[14:50] <xnox> ogra_: that should be fine for ext2/3/4
[14:51] <ogra_> great, i found a better fix than this insanity though :)
[14:51] <ogra_> but its good to keep for the next time i need something like that :)
[14:52] <xnox> ogra_: note that other filesystems generate (pseudo) uuid-like identifiers that are shorter.
[14:53] <ogra_> yep, i know, at least for vfat i do
[14:53] <ogra_> though luckily our installer wont allow you to install to vfat
[14:54] <ogra_> (i hope at least, else the install would fail later anyway)
[15:25] <rickspencer3> msf sforshee hey, would it still be helpful if I installed the mainline kernel?
[15:25] <rickspencer3> oops
[15:25] <rickspencer3> nice pm
[15:26] <sforshee> rickspencer3, heh
[15:26] <sforshee> rickspencer3, it's always good to know whether the bug still exists upstream. I suspect you'll find that it does, since this device seems to have been broken for a long time now.
[15:28] <sforshee> rickspencer3, I'll probably also build a kernel for you with extra debug enabled. I could make it a raring kernel so you could also do the upstream testing at the same time.
[15:28] <rickspencer3> sforshee, perfect
[15:48] <gnutun> hey all; it appears there's a packaging bug introduced in quantal, where libavutil-dev depends strictly on libavutil51, instead of libavutil51 | libavutil-extra-51; this prevents both the extra libav libs and dev files from being installed simultaneously
[15:54] <gnutun> yup, looks like the bug was already reported, nm
[15:54] <jtaylor> siretart: ^
[15:54] <xnox> gnutun: bug number?
[15:54] <jtaylor> its a known issue
[15:54] <jtaylor> unfortunatly I think the solution is delayed to 13.04
[15:54] <jtaylor> or later
[15:57] <gnutun> jtaylor, oh wow
[15:57] <gnutun> bug 1038781
[15:57] <gnutun> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libav/+bug/1038781
[15:58] <xnox> gnutun: fix in raring first, then SRU into quantal.
[16:00] <gnutun> ok, i think i'll throw a fixed package in my ppa for now
[16:00] <gnutun> i had to write a script on my system to uninstall/reinstall these packages several times a day depending on what im doing
[16:00] <gnutun> thx for the info
[16:38] <roaksoax> jdstrand: howdy! So for the MAAS SRU to precise and in order to address the bugs you filed back then and get rid of cobbler, we need to SRU new packages that are not in precise. How do you feel about that (from the security team stand point)
[16:38] <bdrung> ScottK: uploaded
[16:44] <jdstrand> roaksoax: that is fine. I discussed this with flacoste some time ago
[16:44] <jdstrand> it is unusual, but in this case, ok
[16:48] <roaksoax> jdstrand: awesome then!
[16:48] <roaksoax> thanks
[17:07] <janimo> cjwatson, what fraction the effort for a full wubi port to nexus7 would be making a bootimg/initramfs that boots off a loopmounted file in the android data partition?
[17:08] <janimo> and that boot img put in recovery so both can be selected from the bootloader
[17:08] <cjwatson> the initramfs part is basically just adding lupin-casper
[17:08] <cjwatson> but I think to do it sanely we need to get the grub port in first
[17:09] <cjwatson> otherwise we end up in copy-out-the-kernel hell and it's all a mess
[17:09] <cjwatson> and we'd want a boot menu anyway
[17:09] <cjwatson> I wasn't suggesting it as a "hey, we can do this right now" thing :-)
[17:09] <cjwatson> but it seems like something rather handy that might be worth a look
[17:10] <janimo> cjwatson, I know, I just thought about this before, without knowing what the technical blockers are
[17:10] <ogra-cb> me would be a technical blocker for raring at least :)
[17:10] <ogra-cb> i think we should do it, but not this cycle
[17:10] <janimo> I was just hoping there was an easy way to tell the kernel that root is not a device but a file on a filesystem and be done :)
[17:11] <cjwatson> that's basically what lupin-casper arranges for
[17:11] <ogra-cb> (enough other stuff to do and it needs more research and testing etc)
[17:11] <cjwatson> the initramfs side is by this point fairly easy
[17:11] <cjwatson> but you need the boot loader to be able to get at the kernel/initrd too
[17:12] <cjwatson> which either means (a) copy it out to the containing fs (we tried this before, it more or less worked for a few cycles but was really a big bag of no fun at all) or (b) grub2 which is smart enough to unpick things
[17:12] <janimo> cjwatson, but the boot images are zImage+initrd does that not mean they are already seen by the bootloader?
[17:13] <ogra-cb> you can surely make it just work with abootimg somehow
[17:13] <cjwatson> I guess you're already flashing them which amounts to copying them out, yeah
[17:13] <ogra-cb> but if we can have a proper way typo chainload grub and adapt that across alll bootloaders some day, thats definitely better
[17:14] <cjwatson> in the sense of flash-kernel
[17:14] <ogra-cb> s/typo/to/
[17:14] <ogra-cb> funny typo, tsk
[17:14] <janimo> ogra-cb, having grub and consistency is great, I am just wondering if grub is a requirement at all. I may actually need to read lupin-casper before just assuming things though :)
[17:14] <ogra-cb> so imho we should inspect the opportunity this cycle and lay the foundations for next release
[17:14] <cjwatson> well, in that case it's a matter of adding lupin-casper and figuring out how to make the installer create a big file rather than a new filesystem
[17:15] <cjwatson> but you still need something to offer a boot menu
[17:15] <cjwatson> otherwise not a lot of point in dual-booting
[17:15] <ogra-cb> right
[17:15] <janimo> cjwatson, I was thinking of a less friendly way of using the device
[17:15] <janimo> device's boot menu
[17:15] <ogra-cb> which means hw related hacks depending on what keys your device has
[17:15] <janimo> and have android and ubuntu use linux and sos partitions
[17:16] <janimo> so leave android boot as it
[17:16] <cjwatson> I gathered that using the recovery partition was possible; it just struck me that it'd be nicely non-invasive not to have to use that
[17:16] <janimo> and put an ubuntu loader that looks for a loopmounted file in UDA to recoveyr
[17:16] <cjwatson> since it kind of seems like a misuse of the recovery partition?
[17:16] <janimo> cjwatson, at the moment recovery is unused 'officialy' so would be ok
[17:16] <janimo> and also easy to reflash anytim
[17:17] <janimo> ogra-cb, I am only thinking of the nexus7 now, not long-term dual boot which indeed should be better thought out and nicer
[17:17] <janimo> just so we get many more testers who are otherwise unwilling to buy a lovely device just to have a not-yet-working ubuntu on it
[17:17] <janimo> and for hw/kernel debugging having an android to compare behaviour against is a win as well
[17:17] <ogra-cb> well, i wont change the image design right now
[17:18] <cjwatson> janimo: right, those were very much my motivations in thinking about this
[17:18] <janimo> cjwatson, right it is a misusre of recovery, but since we assume unlocked devices, we have fastboot to do recovery and random flashing
[17:19] <ogra-cb> there are to many bits that rely on it (usb-creator etc) but i agree that we should have a plan ... bonus points if we can do it with the current design or something close to it
[17:20] <cjwatson> @pilot out
[17:21] <ogra-cb> the prob i see with the lupin approackh is that you have to somehow teach the android side to work with it as well
[17:21] <cjwatson> Do you?
[17:21] <ogra-cb> and android kind of relies on the same hardcoded crap flash-kernel assumes today
[17:22] <ogra-cb> so a kernel update would be written to mmcblk0p2
[17:22] <ogra-cb> overwriting your menu/initrd
[17:24] <ogra-cb> iirc it looks at labels instead of device names so one could probably swap recovery and boot labeling or so
[17:25] <ogra-cb> but given that the partition table is usually kind of hardcoded as GPT inside the bootloader that wont be easy either
[17:26] <infinity> ogra: By the way.  You haven't filed an MIR for anrdoid-whosit-whatever, and livecd-rootfs is uninstallable.
[17:26] <ogra-cb> oops, will do now
[17:27] <infinity> ogra-cb: You might want to do some of the MIR legwork too, not just file it, if you have any hope of seeing it promoted this year. :P
[17:27] <ogra-cb> well, i'm not in the MIR team
[17:27] <ogra-cb> i'll do what i can though
[17:42] <infinity> ogra-cb: Anyone can do the research and post the results, it's only the MIR team that can do the final approval, that's all.
[17:47] <bryceh_> is there a way to install sru packages that are in the Unapproved queue?  (I.e. so I can test the package while it's waiting)
[17:47] <mlankhorst> pbuilder-dist ?
[17:47] <xnox> bryceh_: it's source only, so you can download them of launchpad, then build then install.
[17:48] <patr|ck> hello, when i try to report a problem regarding the i965 "sandy bridge" graphics chip where the packages kernel, mesa, libdrm, libva-intel and xf86-video-intel are affected i want to ask, which one do i choose for the bug report?
[17:48] <ogra_> infinity, bug 1079796
[17:48] <xnox> bryceh_: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+queue pick correct queue & package, download the .dsc
[17:48] <ogra_> infinity, anything else i could add or do to speed it up ?
[17:49] <bryceh_> patr|ck, just file against 'xorg'.  we'll figure it out.
[17:49] <patr|ck> okay, thanks
[17:49] <bryceh_> patr|ck, it's generally impossible to know ahead of time which package is the faulty one
[17:50] <bryceh_> xnox, hmm, right was hoping for more magick there ;-)
[17:50] <infinity> ogra_: That should do for now.
[17:50] <ogra_> great
[17:50] <cjwatson> bryceh_: the 'queue' tool in lp:ubuntu-archive-tools can fetch them
[17:51] <xnox> cjwatson: \0/ this changes my world
[17:52] <bryceh_> cjwatson, thanks
[18:00] <patr|ck> i must say, the way ubuntu-bug and launchpad.net work is plain awesome. big achievement :-)
[18:01] <doko> Sweetshark, the boost packages are now built for quantal. please validate these
[18:09] <Sweetshark> doko: willdo
[18:12] <siretart> jtaylor: yes, I'll work on that in my next upload to quantal. I'm currently busy with https://launchpad.net/~motumedia/+archive/libav9-raring/ though, help more than welcome, btw. however, since progress on that transition is rather slow, I guess I'll upload 0.8.4 to raring nevertheless soon
[18:24] <doko> ogra-cb, does android-tools need seeding?
[18:24] <cjwatson> livecd-rootfs already depends on it on armhf, so I shouldn't think so
[18:36] <ogra-cb> doko, what cjwatson said
[19:25] <bryceh_> @pilot in
[19:26] <infinity> bryceh_: If you change your nick to one without an underscore, can I no longer bug you to pilot?
[19:27] <bryceh_> you always welcome to bug me to pilot infinity
[19:27] <bryceh_> @pilot out
[20:55] <morphias> guys i am having trouble building an application package. http://paste.ubuntu.com/1363476/ is the output from building it and i dont know what to do exactly to get the deb built...
[20:58] <sarnold> morphias: I'd try again in a directory that does not contain a space in the directory name.
[20:58] <morphias> kk ill try that
[21:05] <morphias> sarnold, yey... now it says "secret key not available"
[21:05] <morphias> but it produced the deb
[21:05] <sarnold> morphias: woot. :D
[21:07] <morphias> now i went through the effort of creating a gpg key last night... how do i get it built to sign it or is that not needed (something tells me its needed)
[21:14] <morphias> sarnold, should i post the output of what occured?
[21:17] <infinity> No need to sign local package builds.  That said, "-uc -us" should have skipped the signing bits.
[21:19] <morphias> infinity, oh... but if a package gets distrubuted, should it be signed? (btw, I just figured it out, I had to add my nickname into the changelog)
[21:20] <infinity> morphias: Generally, if you're distributing, you either sign your archive, or if you're uploading just the source/binaries somewhere, you sign the .changes and the .dsc.
[21:20] <infinity> morphias: -uc makes dpkg-buildpackage not sign changes, -us makes it not sign the .dsc
[21:20] <morphias> yeah that is what the debuild did for me
[21:21] <infinity> After an unsigned build, "debsign *changes" will sign it, if you want it to be so.
[21:27] <morphias> well now i got to hunt down yet another bug. hehe... this is my first time doing this
[21:28] <morphias> i got a "terminate called without an active exception" error thrown
[21:31] <barry> sbuild is making my cry today.  i'm trying to build a package in a sid chroot (where python2.6 is supported).  python-argparse is a b-d and i can see it getting past the "Merge Build-Depends" stage, but then apt in the chroot simply doesn't install it. :(
[21:34] <barry> and yes, jumping into the chroot and `apt-get install python-argparse` works :/
[21:48] <infinity> ogra-cb: Your latest livecd-rootfs upload isn't committed/tagged in bzr.
[21:49] <infinity> ogra-cb: pls to fiz before I go staging something else. :)
[21:49] <infinity> s/fiz/fix/
[22:01] <ScottK> bdrung: Thanks.
[22:04] <ScottK> bdrung: Accepted.
[22:05] <infinity> barry: Are you sure it's not provided by something else that's installed?
[22:05] <infinity> barry: Like, I dunno, python2.7?
[22:07] <infinity> barry: A versioned build-dep would be more correct there (since it's entirely valid for both sbuild and apt to say that your unversioned build-dep is satisfied by python2.7)
[22:07] <infinity> barry: Not sure if a versioned build-dep will fix it, but if not, THAT's a bug. :P
[22:08] <barry> infinity: yeah, i thought about that.  but unless i'm missing it, 2.7 under sid doesn't claim to provide it:
[22:09] <barry> grep argparse sid/debian/control
[22:09] <barry> (returns nothing)
[22:09] <infinity> barry: Oh, I wasn't looking in sid.
[22:09] <infinity> Err, yes it does.
[22:09] <barry> yeah.  raring is all like happy happy joy joy
[22:09] <infinity> Provides: python-argparse, python2.7-argparse ...
[22:09] <infinity> In my sid chroot.
[22:10] <barry> oh craptasm.  i grabbed the wrong branch
[22:10] <infinity> Methinks you want apt-cache show, not an incomplete control file in the source.
[22:11] <barry> no, it's in there
[22:11] <infinity> Oh, or just read the right source, sure. :)
[22:12] <barry> yeah, so now it makes sense ;)
[22:25] <bryce> are there any SRU admins here today?  There is a jockey SRU for precise stuck in Unapproved.  I think RAOF meant to approve that along with fglrx-experimental-9 but overlooked it.  The jockey change allows the driver to actually be installed.  Could someone approve it?
[22:52] <RAOF> bryce: Done. Sorry, I thought we had all the jockey changes already.
[23:34] <bryce> RAOF, awesome, thanks.
[23:47] <bryce> RAOF, yeah we need to get more organized with these driver updates.  it's too easy for bits to get skipped
[23:47] <LyzardKing> what is kubuntu's status, being passed over to bluesystems?