[00:00] <Bommer> Alright, can do
[00:00] <xubuntu101> let me try fixing my own now
[00:10] <Bommer> So now what to try?
[00:10] <[0gb_us]> SO you can't delete the partition then?
[00:10] <[0gb_us]> *So
[00:11] <Guest72238> hi all
[00:11] <[0gb_us]> Hello.
[00:11] <Guest72238> i'm having a "detecting file systems..." problem it's just freezing on that.... and btw im trying to install it on an external HDD
[00:11] <Bommer> I can delete the partition
[00:11] <Guest72238> i mean the installer is just stuck on that "detecting file systems" screen
[00:12] <Guest72238> thoughts?
[00:12] <[0gb_us]> Okay, delete the partition and create a new one. Then install.
[00:12] <Bommer> What format should the partition be?
[00:12] <[0gb_us]> Sorry, I don't know what to do about the external drive.
[00:12] <[0gb_us]> EXT4.
[00:13] <Guest72238> alright
[00:13] <Bommer> Windows can't make a ext4
[00:13] <Guest72238> thanks bbye
[00:13] <[0gb_us]> Don't make it in WIndows, make it in the Xubuntu installer.
[00:13] <Bommer> Ah alright
[00:14] <Bommer> I'll boot up the installer
[00:15] <Bommer> Reset the computer without the disk in *headdesk*
[00:22] <Bommer> Alright I have to stop, may have just screwed my hdd uo
[00:22] <[0gb_us]> Sorry to hear that.
[00:23] <[0gb_us]> You could try reinstalling Windows, then Xubuntu.
[00:25] <Bommer> Phew. Safe. The gonna try one more thing then done (for fear I will destroy everything haha)
[00:31] <Bommer> Does anyone do Skype help by any chance?
[00:34] <ruien> Yes, i have skype installed. I would recommend installing it from the partner repos rather than from the .deb on skype's website.
[00:36] <[0gb_us]> I don't have Skype on my end.
[00:49] <xubuntu980> my dualboot installation has failed twice now
[00:49] <xubuntu980> does anybody have dualboot experience here?
[00:49] <Unit193> !dualboot | Did you read this?
[00:49] <xubuntu980> [0gb_us] ???
[00:50] <xubuntu980> unit yes i did
[00:50] <xubuntu980> i followed all the instructions correctly
[00:50] <xubuntu980> it says installed correctly, but when i restart, it takes me directly to windows
[00:51] <Unit193> Do you have a EFI system?
[00:51] <Unit193> A new computer?
[00:51] <[0gb_us]> I don't duel boot, sorry. I put Windows in a VurtualBox. Even then, it's usually months between times that I use Windows.
[00:51] <Unit193> !uefi
[00:51] <xubuntu980> no. its about 5 years old
[00:51] <xubuntu980> I have a BIOS
[00:52] <ruien> xubuntu980: how many physical hard disks do you have? Maybe you installed GRUB to the wrong physical disk?
[00:52] <xubuntu980> i was even told to change my boot sequence to HDD first
[00:52] <xubuntu980> I have 1 physical disk with 2 partitions in it
[00:52] <xubuntu980> 160GB: 50 GB to windows, 110 empty
[00:53] <ruien> well, presumably xubuntu is installed somewhere?
[00:53] <xubuntu980> I followed these instructions: http://askubuntu.com/questions/148881/dual-boot-windows-xp-and-ubuntu-12-04
[00:53] <ruien> yes, but where is xubuntu installed if you have 50GB for windows and 110GB empty. Do you mean 50GB for windows partition, and 110GB for xubuntu partition, and xubuntu is installed?
[00:54] <xubuntu980> under My Computer, my disk drive D is gone now. so i think it is installed. I just cant boot to it
[00:54] <xubuntu980> yes it is 2 partitions. 110gb is where i installed Xubuntu and a swap area
[00:55] <xubuntu980> the first time when i put my Xubuntu disk in, it gave an extra option of: delete and reinstall Xubuntu, so I think its there. How do I access it?
[00:56] <ruien> boot to the xubuntu live CD and check to make sure. Mount that drive (you will have two "grayed out" drives on the desktop; check them both). Then, chroot into your xubuntu partition (first "mount --bind /dev /path/to/xubuntu/dev", same for /proc and /sys), and then "grub-install" and "update-grub", read the output to make sure it finds both OSes
[00:57] <xubuntu980> ok let me try that.
[00:58] <ruien> by "grub-install" i really mean "grub-install /dev/sda" or whatever your drive is
[00:59] <xubuntu980> when you say, same for proc and sys, I should do this 3 times?
[00:59] <xubuntu980> 1 for dev, then proc, then sys?
[01:00] <ruien> yep, just make sure you're "mount --bind"ing /dev /proc and /sys into the partition before you chroot into it, that's all
[01:00] <ruien> so you will run it three times in total
[05:52] <shakti> I'm about to install Xubuntu on my machine. {posting this using the live CD} I need the best partition chart for my 320 GB hard disk, for the smoothest boot
[05:52] <shakti> can anyone help
[05:53] <holstein> shakti: sure.. just use the defaults
[05:54] <shakti> Thanks holestein. I'm pretty new to linux and a friend told me that the best way to get the most out of your system is to manually allocate space
[05:54] <ruien> it's really up to you. I like to have four partitions: a small "/boot", a "/" for the system, a large "/home", and a swap space which is about twice the size of my RAM
[05:54] <holstein> shakti: if you are new, do automatic.. im not new, and i still mostly just do automatic
[05:55] <holstein> the seperate /home as ruien mentions is nice.. but not "smoother booting" by any means
[05:55] <ruien> yep, that ^^
[05:55] <shakti> @ruien  - what about /boot, /usr. /usr/local, /temp
[05:55] <holstein> if you want the "smoothest overall experience" do the default
[05:56] <shakti> Hmmm. okay
[05:56] <ruien> shakti: i wouldn't split up all those into different partitions. More complex and for what reason, really?
[05:56] <holstein> shakti: your friend has mis-informed you, and likely was commenting about another issue, or something of personal preference
[05:57] <shakti> @ ruien - I have no idea. I just got impressed with all this division and thought /boot space might make it faster
[05:57] <shakti> anyways thanks a lot ruien and holstein
[05:57] <holstein> shakti: no.. the hard drive will be the speed the hard drive is
[05:57] <ruien> ah, no, none of this will really make that much difference. Defaults are probably fine for you.
[05:58] <shakti> I'll go ahead with the default then
[05:58] <holstein> i could argue splitting up the partitions could make it slower..
[05:58] <holstein> not likely though... if you need seperate partitions or custom partitioning, you'll know..
[05:59] <shakti> thanks a lot guys going to go ahead with the default installation now
[06:46] <dillu> @ruien
[06:46] <ruien> hello?
[06:46] <dillu> done with the installation. Enjoying the xfce experience. thanks
[06:47] <ruien> great, and welcome to the xubuntu community
[07:33] <xubuntu062> hi to all
[07:33] <[uzver]> xubuntu062: hi!
[07:33] <xubuntu062> i have problem with my xubuntu
[07:33] <[uzver]> !ask
[07:33] <xubuntu062> i don't see my desktop
[07:33] <xubuntu062> icons
[07:33] <xubuntu062> and everithing on it
[07:34] <xubuntu062> and everything on it
[07:34] <xubuntu062> can someone help me to solve this
[07:34] <[uzver]> Alt+F2 and run xfdesktop
[07:38] <xubuntu062> omg :) 10x alot
[13:30] <ntzrmtthihu777> so what's up, #xubuntu.
[13:38] <TheSheep_> !offtopic | ntzrmtthihu777
[13:40] <ntzrmtthihu777> TheSheep_: fair enough.  It will be used only to connect my external hard drives (1TB) to my laptop. I have found some hama 4xports for 5 EUR. Will those be enough for the task? external hard drives have huge ammounts of video and audio data.
[14:38] <bekks> brauleinchen: You 1TB drive - is it a 3.5" one?
[14:38] <brauleinchen> no, 2.5 '', all of them
[14:38] <brauleinchen> all portable
[14:39] <bekks> 3.5" is portable too.
[14:39] <bekks> Do your external disks have external power supplies?
[14:39] <brauleinchen> only one casing, but I have never needed external power supply
[14:39] <brauleinchen> for any of them, nor when I connect 3 HDD at the same time
[14:40] <bekks> Then your usb hub needs a power supply-
[14:40] <bekks> It cant provide enough power for all your disks using just a single usb upstream port.
[14:41] <brauleinchen> bekks, if I get one without its own power supply, whats is the worst that could happen?
[14:41] <brauleinchen> random power cuts? laptop turning off?
[14:41] <bekks> brauleinchen: no external disk functional.
[14:41] <brauleinchen> ok...
[14:42] <brauleinchen> 10 usb ports hub, own power supply, 20 EUR, expensive?
[14:43] <yourfriendarmand> excessive?
[14:43] <brauleinchen> long term investment?
[14:43] <bekks> USB is a shirt term investment :)
[14:43] <bekks> Buy some USB3 externally powered hub, if you want some long term investment.
[14:44] <yourfriendarmand> I have a hub as well on my mostly stationed laptop, I'd rather wear out the contacts on it than the internal ones
[14:45] <brauleinchen> usb3, thanks
[14:45] <yourfriendarmand> nice braulenchen!
[14:46] <yourfriendarmand> could you share a link? I would likely be interested in something like this
[14:46] <brauleinchen> i also want to buy a new 1TB sata drive, does USB speed depend only on the box?
[14:47] <brauleinchen> I can get 1tb sata drives 8MB 5400RPM for 85 eur
[14:47] <yourfriendarmand> at usb3 speeds, the data transfers likely becomes hard disk bound
[14:47] <yourfriendarmand> assuming you're connected to a usb3 root port
[14:48] <bekks> brauleinchen: You need an USB3 host port and an USB3 casing.
[14:49] <brauleinchen> aww, to disassemble my laptop...
[14:49] <yourfriendarmand> I had to get a usb3 card, works perferctly on linux, but I'm certain it's not full usb3 speed, probably mini pci-e bus bound
[14:49] <yourfriendarmand> stil faster than usb2 at least
[14:50] <bekks> brauleinchen: You dont need to disassemble your laptop.
[14:50] <bekks> brauleinchen: You need to look up the specs in the manual.
[14:50] <brauleinchen> there wasnt a manual per se afair
[14:50] <brauleinchen> sudo lsk...
[14:51] <yourfriendarmand> lshw?
[14:51] <brauleinchen> lol, maybe
[14:52] <bekks> brauleinchen: There is a manual online. :P
[14:52] <yourfriendarmand> inxi might give some useful info too
[14:52] <yourfriendarmand> inxi -v7, lot's of useful info
[14:55] <ntzrmtthihu777> inxi is damn good :D
[14:55] <brauleinchen> noob question, so I dont need to install anything new? remove hardware to assemble new hardware?
[14:55] <ntzrmtthihu777> best thing is its just a bash script. you don't even need to install the deb if you get the core of it :D
[14:55] <yourfriendarmand> mind you it isn't available normally, and linux mint is the only I've encountered that makes a deb for it. But yes it can be run from it's source script
[14:56] <yourfriendarmand> @brauleinchen you might need a usb3 card in the worst case
[14:56] <ntzrmtthihu777> yourfriendarmand: heh. I keep scripts like that in ~/.bin and have that added to my $PATH, so I keep these during re-install
[14:56] <bekks> brauleinchen: Look at the manual. Then you will know wether you need HW or not.
[14:56] <yourfriendarmand> same here! I love it ^ ^
[14:57] <brauleinchen> noobiest question, what manual?
[14:57] <bekks> brauleinchen: Your computers manual.
[14:57] <yourfriendarmand> google search your computer, I just do a search 'dell studio 1458 specs' and something will
[14:58] <yourfriendarmand> a wiki or even manufacturer website will tell you more than a store dept would
[14:59] <brauleinchen> the wikipedia article is proving enlighting
[14:59] <bekks> Which article?
[14:59] <yourfriendarmand> someone out there always know a little more about your hardware
[15:00] <brauleinchen> usb
[15:00] <bekks> Wikipedia is a useless resource when it comes to "what hardware is built into my specific make and model"-
[15:00] <brauleinchen> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_3.0, adding to existeing hardrea
[15:00] <brauleinchen> hardware
[15:00] <bekks> So go to the Dell website and look up the specs of your computer.
[15:00] <yourfriendarmand> you can always tell if you have at least one USB3 port if it has something like <-SS- above it
[15:01] <yourfriendarmand> a USB2/eSata port would normally have a Z zag to indicated powered
[15:03] <yourfriendarmand> I lucked out with mine, given that no OS can give me the exact model of my video card, a wiki or spec doc will tell me the right model, since drivers just give a 54xx series indications
[15:06] <brauleinchen> M7X0SUN clevo usb3 doesnt return many results
[15:10] <yourfriendarmand> $lsusb
[15:10] <yourfriendarmand> might indicate what usb speed root hubs you have
[15:11] <gatsu1000> good afternoon to all
[15:11] <gatsu1000> need a little help here, can someone help me?
[15:11] <yourfriendarmand> ^ ^ morning here still
[15:12] <gatsu1000> mmm, american?^^
[15:12] <yourfriendarmand> lsusb outputsample:  Bus 008 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
[15:12] <yourfriendarmand> indeed, what's up gatsu?
[15:12] <gatsu1000> i'm quite new to linux in general, i'm trying xubuntu on my parent's pc
[15:12] <gatsu1000> it's a little old, so i erased windows and tried that but..
[15:13] <yourfriendarmand> @brauleinchen: I purchased a USB3 mini pci-e card matching the following chipset: 02:00.0 USB controller: NEC Corporation uPD720200 USB 3.0 Host Controller (rev 04)
[15:13] <gatsu1000> need to make it look the more possible as windows
[15:13] <yourfriendarmand> I've had good luck with this, it drives a 2TB external drive 24/7
[15:13] <gatsu1000> for example, the upper bar with the "start" button, how can i take it to bottom?^^
[15:13] <yourfriendarmand> you have to "unlock"  it like in windows
[15:14] <gatsu1000> right click on it?
[15:14] <yourfriendarmand> right click anywhere on the panel, look for panel submenu
[15:14] <yourfriendarmand> then panel preferences
[15:14] <yourfriendarmand> at some juncture you should be able to snap it toward the bottom by dragging the entire object
[15:16] <yourfriendarmand> I did a XP+1 by keeping the default start button, "quick start apps" and the sys try on the top bar, and simply created a new bar below, having just the task bar of running windows
[15:16] <gatsu1000> yay! thanks a lot! even if i think i made something wrong during the process :P
[15:16] <yourfriendarmand> and autohide both
[15:16] <brauleinchen> i dont understand Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
[15:16] <brauleinchen> Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
[15:16] <brauleinchen> Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
[15:16] <gatsu1000> i was able to put it to bottom
[15:16] <yourfriendarmand> I get much more territory when I open plenty of windows
[15:16] <gatsu1000> but i think i take a "separator" away :P
[15:17] <yourfriendarmand> I did remove the "dock" object it defaults initially
[15:17] <yourfriendarmand> once I added about ten quick launch buttons, I needed a separate task bar
[15:17] <yourfriendarmand> you'll find it suits your needs, developer, fun, etc.
[15:18] <gatsu1000> thanks for all the advices
[15:18] <yourfriendarmand> enjoy gatsu ^ ^
[15:19] <gatsu1000> thanks^^ now the last thing i need to try... let's hope it works...
[15:19] <yourfriendarmand> we're here to help each other anytime
[15:19] <gatsu1000> mmm, np
[15:19] <gatsu1000> think i still some help here...^^
[15:19] <yourfriendarmand> @brauleinchen do you have an expansion slot? you may needs a usb3 card
[15:20] <gatsu1000> why if i open a youtube video, it's all green and "squared", and it sounds badly?^^
[15:20] <yourfriendarmand> usb2 -> usb3 will work, but will not give you usb3 speed
[15:20] <bekks> brauleinchen: Did you look up the specs yet?
[15:20] <yourfriendarmand> can you play a movie from a file?
[15:20] <brauleinchen> yes i do have a smartcard slot, but I may need to connect it to a usb2 port (power supply)
[15:21] <gatsu1000> mmm, have to try... give me a sec
[15:21] <brauleinchen> but then Id have to buy a usb3 hub
[15:21] <brauleinchen> to connect to the usb3smart card
[15:21] <yourfriendarmand> I had to do this as well. the expansion slot cannot supply sufficient power to a fully compliant usb3 port, and thus needs a cable
[15:21] <yourfriendarmand> but if your hub has a power supply, this should not be a problem for you
[15:22] <gatsu1000> video is a little better: not green but many "pixels"
[15:22] <gatsu1000> perhaps some problems with flash player?
[15:23] <yourfriendarmand> I'm going to guess non-accelerated playback
[15:23] <gatsu1000> or the video card?
[15:23] <gatsu1000> mmm... how can i check if it's all right?
[15:23] <yourfriendarmand> what does running ` lspci |grep -i VGA ` reveal?
[15:23] <gatsu1000> one sec...
[15:23] <yourfriendarmand> omit the back quotes in terminal
[15:24] <yourfriendarmand> let's see what your graphics card comprise
[15:24] <gatsu1000> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82865G Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 02)
[15:24] <brauleinchen> wow, so i have to buy: smartcard usb3 port which per se doesnt need external power supply, and an external usb3 hub, which definetly needs externel power supply, plus all my old cases need to be upgraded to match the usb3 standard, right?
[15:25] <yourfriendarmand> "old cases" referring to hard disk enclosures? yes
[15:25] <yourfriendarmand> they'll run just fine, just not at usb3
[15:25] <bekks> Whats a "smartcard usb3 port"?
[15:25] <yourfriendarmand> it's backward and forward compatible
[15:25] <yourfriendarmand> @gatsu, hmm
[15:25] <gatsu1000> it's a motherboard vga card
[15:26] <gatsu1000> of an old HP desktop
[15:26] <yourfriendarmand> I had one too, what cpu do you have? ` cat /proc/cpuinfo  |grep model `
[15:26] <gatsu1000> model		: 3 model name	: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.80GHz
[15:27] <yourfriendarmand> what *buntu release version are you running?
[15:27] <bekks> brauleinchen: Whats a "smartcard usb3 port"?
[15:27] <brauleinchen> sorry for the broken english, usb 3 on a smart card?
[15:28] <gatsu1000> xubuntu, the last one downloadable, think it's 13.04 or something similar
[15:28] <brauleinchen> usb3 port on a smart card?
[15:28] <brauleinchen> portable usb3 port on a smart card?
[15:28] <yourfriendarmand> you may most likely find a mini-pci-e usb3 card
[15:28] <bekks> brauleinchen: Forget it. Those things do not exist.
[15:28] <yourfriendarmand> pc cards are older
[15:28] <yourfriendarmand> @gatsu that's interesting
[15:28] <brauleinchen>  ExpressCard-to-USB 3.0 adapter?
[15:28] <bekks> brauleinchen: You need to know the specs of your computer to know which extenral connection ports it has - like pci express card slot, e.g.
[15:28] <yourfriendarmand> yes
[15:29] <gatsu1000> why?^^
[15:29] <bekks> brauleinchen: And dont mix up ExpressCard with PCIE-ExpressCard :)
[15:29] <yourfriendarmand> @brau: provided your laptop has an expresscard slot
[15:29] <bekks> brauleinchen: So did you look up the specs?
[15:30] <yourfriendarmand> @gatsu, you should have the newest open source drivers, they normally play video well
[15:30] <yourfriendarmand> perhaps not HD video, but at least a 720x480 video well
[15:30] <brauleinchen> when I bought the laptop there was no manual with it, just a couple of pages about warranty, its a clevo
[15:30] <gatsu1000> i can't see youtube videos... :P
[15:31] <bekks> brauleinchen: Then look it up online, as I already told you.
[15:31] <brauleinchen> my laptop has an expresscard slot
[15:31] <brauleinchen> Im trying bekks but I dont get many results
[15:31] <yourfriendarmand> are you familiar with managing the packages system and software repositories?
[15:31] <gatsu1000> not so much...
[15:31] <bekks> brauleinchen: Go to the manufacturers website and search for your specific make and model.
[15:32] <bekks> brauleinchen: You dont have to google.
[15:32] <gatsu1000> i just find ubuntu software center quite useful^^
[15:32] <yourfriendarmand> you should have an app titled "software sources" check and see if you have the medibuntu repository enabled
[15:33] <yourfriendarmand> perhaps you may need to install codecs
[15:34] <gatsu1000> i found a software and updates...
[15:34] <yourfriendarmand> that one will work
[15:35] <gatsu1000> no medibuntu there
[15:35] <yourfriendarmand> in the "other software" tab? no medi?
[15:36] <gatsu1000> nope, only 2 "canonical"
[15:36] <gatsu1000> partner canonical
[15:36] <yourfriendarmand> check out http://www.medibuntu.org It can guide you on adding codecs that may be key to playing proper video
[15:36] <gatsu1000> and 2 indipendent
[15:36] <brauleinchen> http://www.clevo.com.tw/en/e-services/Download.asp, sudo lshw lists my model as  M7X0SUN , there is a band on the back of the laptop: M77SUN, none of those appears in that menu
[15:37] <brauleinchen> im an idiot
[15:37] <brauleinchen> disregard my pre-last line
[15:37] <yourfriendarmand> it's a neat crash course on managing software sources
[15:37] <gatsu1000> wait, in medibuntu site you gave me there is a raring, that's the one installed in the list before
[15:38] <yourfriendarmand> raring is the name alias to 13.04 xubuntu
[15:38] <gatsu1000> mmm, ok. a lot of packages down there
[15:38] <gatsu1000> need to download them all?
[15:38] <yourfriendarmand> no, let me IM a list that works for me
[15:39] <gatsu1000> win32 binary codecs?^^
[15:39] <gatsu1000> can be this good?
[15:41] <bekks> brauleinchen: Then you have to look for "M77xSUN" very carefully in the "User manual" section of that website. I found it there, as you will do, too.
[15:42] <brauleinchen> no what I meant to say is that I found it, im now downloading it
[15:51] <GridCube> !info lib-xml-perl
[15:52] <GridCube> !info libxml-simple-perl
[15:52] <GridCube> well then
[15:54] <GridCube> woooooow i cant install libxml-simple-perl because it depends on libxml-sax-perl that cannot be installed because it would delete 3/4 of my stuffs
[15:55] <GridCube> lol i will delete all
[15:55] <GridCube> it XD
[15:56] <koegs> installing a package does not delete anything :D
[15:57] <GridCube> koegs, it says "packages that will be unistalled: [LIST OF ALL PROGRAMS INSTALLED]
[15:58] <bekks> I doubt it uninstalls all programs.
[15:58] <Unit193> GridCube: apt-get purge plymouth, that'll basically list it all.
[15:58] <GridCube> but i dont want to uninstall
[15:59] <GridCube> i want to instal gcstar, it fails complaining that libxml-simple-perl its not instalable, then if i try to install libxml-simple-perl it says libxml-sax-perl its not installable, and when trying that one it says it will uninstall all intalled programs
[16:02]  * koegs wants to see all that in a nopaste
[16:02] <gatsu1000> no luck... audio is going good
[16:02] <gatsu1000> but video still bad
[16:03] <gatsu1000> and i don't even know how to start a private chat there :P
[16:07] <gatsu1000> yourfriend?
[16:08] <gatsu1000> ok, i was left alone... hey, it's scary out there! :P
[16:13] <GridCube> http://pastebin.com/5JWVdfyb
[16:13] <GridCube> koegs,
[16:13] <GridCube> its different here than in synaptic
[16:18] <GridCube> it saying im holding broken packages
[16:36] <peyam> Hi how are you?
[16:36] <GridCube> :) peyam if you wanna chat please come to #xubuntu-offtopic
[16:44] <koegs> GridCube: what kind of third party sources do you have enabled?
[16:44] <GridCube> probably a lot
[16:45] <koegs> and i do not understand that language, but i am sure there no package uninstalled :)
[16:51] <GridCube> P: no in that dump no
[16:51] <GridCube> in the synaptics one yes
[17:00] <z23891> Where is the /groups/shell/bash folder?
[17:01] <GridCube> ?
[17:01] <GridCube> no idea what that is
[17:01] <z23891> sorry i mean ~/groups/shells/bash
[17:01] <z23891> what would the ~ be
[17:01] <GridCube> ~ means /home/username
[17:02] <GridCube> as username can be anything ~ its used to globally replace that
[17:06] <z23891> ah, thank you
[18:04] <xubuntu161> hello
[18:04] <xubuntu161> i try install xubuntu 12.04 LTS amd 64, they ask me login and password !!!
[18:05] <xubuntu161> can help me ?
[18:06] <SonikkuAmerica> During the install?
[18:06] <xubuntu161> first step
[18:06] <xubuntu161> after i select install on hard disk
[18:07] <SonikkuAmerica> Are you using the mini.iso by any chance?
[18:07] <SonikkuAmerica> Or the alternate image?
[18:07] <xubuntu161> no 700 MO
[18:07] <xubuntu161> with usb installer on usb key
[18:07] <xubuntu161> universal usb installer
[18:08] <SonikkuAmerica> I think it's asking you to create one.
[18:08] <xubuntu161> i put login and password i got
[18:08] <xubuntu161> wrong login
[18:09] <SonikkuAmerica> Now that is weird. Give me a moment
[18:09] <xubuntu161> realy i use debian some times nevers see something like that
[18:10] <xubuntu161> i install xubuntu i386 fo my parrents all ok
[18:10] <SonikkuAmerica> Yeah. This one eludes me... but you used the Universal USB Installer for Windows right?
[18:10] <xubuntu161> right
[18:11] <xubuntu161> evrytimes
[18:11] <SonikkuAmerica> Try using Unetbootin... that usually has better resuls.
[18:11] <SonikkuAmerica> *resulsts.
[18:11] <SonikkuAmerica> **rsulets.
[18:11] <SonikkuAmerica> I give up.
[18:11] <xubuntu161> i try thanks
[18:12] <SonikkuAmerica> No, that's not what I meant...
[18:12] <SonikkuAmerica> I give up typing the word "results"
[18:12] <SonikkuAmerica> XD
[18:32] <rooi-oog> Hi guys. What it can be? I try to compile simplest code
[18:32] <rooi-oog> gcc `pkg-config --cflags --libs gtk+-3.0` gtk.c -o gtk
[18:32] <rooi-oog> but it fails with error undefined reference to gtk-init
[18:32] <rooi-oog> I use 13.04
[18:33] <holstein> rooi-oog: what are you trying to do?
[18:33] <rooi-oog> just compile my programm
[18:33] <holstein> rooi-oog: what program?
[18:35] <rooi-oog> does it matter? even if there be one line gtk_init
[18:35] <holstein> rooi-oog: the reason it matters is because it should be on a case by case basis.. each application will have different requirements, or potential errors
[18:37] <rooi-oog> ok. such code http://paste.ubuntu.com/5651985/
[18:39] <rooi-oog> any suggestions?
[18:39] <holstein> rooi-oog: i do not do programming.. i might suggest either looking into a programming support channel, or elaborate for the volunteers what program it is you are working with
[18:40] <rooi-oog> thank you for advice
[19:06] <brauleinchen> how do I see stl files under linux?
[19:06] <brauleinchen> anything on the repos?
[19:06] <Pici> What are stl files?
[19:09] <holstein> brauleinchen: http://askubuntu.com/questions/247398/which-softwares-i-should-install-for-opening-stl-files suggests openSCAD
[19:09] <holstein> brauleinchen: nothing in the repos will likely be allowed to access that proprietary format
[19:14] <brauleinchen> ill give it a try
[19:14] <brauleinchen> tnanhs
[19:51] <brauleinchen> i dont see anything
[19:53] <brauleinchen> has any of you installed viewstl? I cannot even ./configure it
[19:53] <brauleinchen> http://sourceforge.net/projects/viewstl/
[19:54] <bekks> Why cant you configure it?
[19:56] <brauleinchen> i dont know, i downloaded the tar.gz file, extracted it, opened a terminal, cd'ed to it and tried to ./configure it, but there is only a "viewstl" execution file
[19:56] <brauleinchen> executable*
[19:56] <bekks> brauleinchen: Then read the readme for the archive you downloaded.
[19:56] <bekks> brauleinchen: The project ships one, hopefully.
[19:57] <brauleinchen> there is no readme
[19:57] <brauleinchen> it was updated for the last time in 2004
[19:58] <brauleinchen> openscad cannot open it either, but the installation was successful
[19:58] <bekks> brauleinchen: Wrong. The last aupdate for viewstl was on 2013-03-07
[19:59] <brauleinchen> please paste a loink
[19:59] <bekks> brauleinchen: And guess why the file is named "viewstl-binaries.tar.gz"
[19:59] <bekks> brauleinchen: http://sourceforge.net/projects/viewstl/
[19:59] <SonikkuAmerica> Don't I have to cut the loink out first?
[19:59] <SonikkuAmerica> :)
[20:00] <brauleinchen> bekks, im a noob , I cannot guess why the file is named binaries, nor what it implies
[20:00] <bekks> brauleinchen: It implies that it contains binaries.
[20:01]  * bekks hands a scissor to SonikkuAmerica
[20:01] <brauleinchen> what do I do with those binaries?
[20:01] <SonikkuAmerica> Thanks bro
[20:01] <bekks> brauleinchen: Execute them - if yiou trust them. I dont trust them.
[20:01]  * SonikkuAmerica cuts out the loink and pastes it
[20:01] <brauleinchen> bekks, i did try, but nothing happened
[20:01] <bekks> brauleinchen: So how did you try?
[20:02] <brauleinchen> left click, execute
[20:02] <bekks> Open a terminal and execute it in a terminal.
[20:02] <bekks> But again, I wont trust those binaries.
[20:03] <brauleinchen> !execute viewstl" didnt do anything, please enlighten the noob
[20:03] <bekks> brauleinchen: !execute is not a valide command.
[20:03] <SonikkuAmerica> You'll need to chmod +x and ./ them.
[20:03] <bekks> brauleinchen: Open a terminal and execute the binary from the terminal, if you really want to.
[20:04] <ntzrmtthihu777> hallo. I've recently migrated from gnome-panel and retained my /home partitions data. as such, I have quite a few .files in ~ relating to gnome, and should like to remove them. unfortuneatly, I'm not sure what is and is not safe to remove.
[20:05] <ntzrmtthihu777> little assit, please?
[20:05] <brauleinchen> so chmod + viewstl and then ./configure, make and make install
[20:06] <bekks> No.
[20:06] <bekks> There is no ./configure - so how do you want to execute it?
[20:07] <bekks> Open a terminal, go into the folder where the linux binary is.
[20:07] <bekks> Execute chmod +x thefilename and ./thefilename
[20:07] <brauleinchen> o, many thankhs
[20:08] <ntzrmtthihu777> for instance, do I need ~/.gnome2 or ~/.gconf now that I'm using xubuntu?
[20:09] <bekks> ntzrmtthihu777: Yes.
[20:09] <ntzrmtthihu777> bekks: ok. strange, but ok.
[20:09] <SonikkuAmerica> ntzrmtthihu777: XFCE and GNOME 2 are both GTK+ 2-based
[20:10] <ntzrmtthihu777> mhmm, gotcher. same bones
[20:10] <SonikkuAmerica> Almost the same skeleton if you ask me.
[20:14] <ntzrmtthihu777> naruhodo... I think I like xubuntu so much because it reminds me of lucid, lol. I got started on lucid, ya kno.
[20:16] <ntzrmtthihu777> and what's with all these .goutputstream files?
[20:17] <SonikkuAmerica> ntzrmtthihu777: You tell me. All part of GTK+'s way of handling stuff AFAIk
[20:17] <ntzrmtthihu777> XD
[20:17] <SonikkuAmerica> If it has a letter G in front of it, assume GTK+
[20:19] <ntzrmtthihu777> yeah, in general, no?
[20:19] <SonikkuAmerica> Yep
[20:19] <SonikkuAmerica> Unless it's Gwenview
[20:27] <ntzrmtthihu777> I swear this has to be the largest program I've ever installed XD
[20:35] <SonikkuAmerica> What?
[20:35] <SonikkuAmerica> ntzrmtthihu777: What is the largest?
[20:39] <kgb> ntzrmtthihu777: personally Xubuntu reminds me of awesome..;) :)
[20:44] <Unit193> kgb: Awesomewm?
[20:57] <ntzrmtthihu777> SonikkuAmerica: StarCraft II. 14gb
[20:57]  * SonikkuAmerica faints
[20:58] <ntzrmtthihu777> ikr? bigger than my install, it is XD
[20:58] <SonikkuAmerica> O_o
[20:59] <ntzrmtthihu777> XD
[21:32] <Tumlee> Is there a well-known way to customize what happens when you right-click on a window's titlebar, the same way you can with double-click?
[21:32] <Tumlee> In xfce
[21:34] <ntzrmtthihu777> Tumlee: erm, I think the settings > window manager tweaks can do that.
[21:34] <Tumlee> I didn't see it there... but I'll look again
[22:08] <Tumlee> Yeah, I looked again and it's definetely not under Settings -> Window Manager -> Advanced. Could it be because I'm only booting from a Live USB so everything might not be up to date?
[22:13] <ntzrmtthihu777> Tumlee: well there are 2 window manager settings under settings for my install. window manager and window manager tweaks
[22:14] <Tumlee> Same for me
[22:14] <Tumlee> So is it supposed to be under Window Manager Tweaks, then?
[22:15] <ntzrmtthihu777> Tumlee: no, seems what i was thinking of you have already found.
[22:16] <Tumlee> Erf... is it just not an option in xfce then?
[22:17] <ntzrmtthihu777> Tumlee: not that I know. exactly what is your aim?
[22:18] <Emif-> why my sound icon and battery icon disappeared from the panel? am using xubuntu
[22:18] <Tumlee> I prefer to have it so when I right click on the titlebar of a window, it will minimize
[22:18] <Tumlee> Very simple, no aiming for a minimize button
[22:18] <Emif-> lately today someone guided me how to install the sound icon on the panel
[22:19] <ntzrmtthihu777> not part of my knowledge. I like my aero/compiz-like half-screen trick.
[22:19] <Emif-> i mean sound indicator, but now it disappeared with the battery icon
[22:19] <Tumlee> ntzmrtthihu777: What's that?
[22:19] <Emif-> Tumlee,  can ya help please?
[22:20] <Tumlee> I have never experienced your issue so I wouldn't be able to tell you how to fix it.
[22:20] <ntzrmtthihu777> Tumlee: you know how when you drag a window to the top or sides of the screen in win7/unity it either maximizes or takes half of the screen size automatically?
[22:20] <ntzrmtthihu777> Emif-: I too have no sound indicator.
[22:20] <Tumlee> Yeah, Aero snap or whatever
[22:20] <Emif-> How to add one?
[22:20] <koegs> Emif-: do you have "xfce4-mixer" installed, then you can add a mixer to the tray
[22:21] <Emif-> installing it now.
[22:21] <Emif-> ok just installed it
[22:21] <ntzrmtthihu777> koegs: ah, thankya. not something I was particularly worried about, but good to know.
[22:22] <Emif-> how about the battery indicator koegs ?
[22:23] <koegs> i think you have to add "notification area" or something like that to the panel
[22:24] <koegs> i do not have a english xubuntu at hand
[22:25] <ntzrmtthihu777> no clue. I use xub on my Dell All in one touchscreen pc
[22:37] <Emif-> is linux mint better than ubuntu?
[22:37] <Emif-> or xubuntu
[22:38] <koegs> nope
[22:39] <Emif-> why not
[22:39] <knome> !best | Emif-
[22:40] <Emif-> okay thanks
[22:40] <Emif-> is distrowatch.com a reliable site to use?
[22:40] <knome> for what?
[22:40] <Emif-> for news about linux distros
[22:41] <knome> i suppose, though the most reliable news come from the distros themself.
[23:15] <Guest58539> i installed google talk plugin but is not working anyone know why?
[23:19] <Guest58539> must i install a certain version of google talk plugin for it to work in xubuntu 12.04?


[01:03] <vychune> o/
[01:03] <vychune> whats up people!
[01:05] <vychune> o/ chris4585
[01:06] <chris4585> hey vychune
[01:06] <vychune> how ya doing?
[01:06] <chris4585> alright, got a little frustrated earlier trying to put a ps3 controller back together
[01:06] <vychune> ouch
[01:07] <chris4585> took it apart trying to fix my sticky joystick, I would have to soldier a new part on for it to work :/
[01:07] <chris4585> but besides that, how are you?
[01:07] <vychune> doing good
[01:07] <vychune> Fedex called me to throw boxes for them lol
[01:07] <chris4585> thats good
[01:07] <chris4585> o.o
[01:08] <chris4585> work in a warehouse?
[01:08] <vychune> so hopefully that job works out
[01:08] <vychune> the memphis hub
[01:08] <chris4585> ah cool
[01:08] <vychune> same idea however
[01:08] <vychune> yeah
[01:08] <vychune> watching phi-brain right now though
[01:08] <vychune> got a server job tomorrow probably
[01:09] <vychune> Ubuntu or Debian
[01:09] <chris4585> nice
[01:09] <vychune> what would be your choice by the way?
[01:11] <chris4585> well, I like ubuntu, and so so with debian..
[01:12] <vychune> hmm ok then
[01:12] <vychune> brb grabbing a cold soft drink
[01:12] <chris4585> I've never really maintained a big server before, I've done an arch server hosting my own wordpress though, which was surprisingly easy to setup
[01:13] <binarymutant> debian
[01:16] <Unit193> Debian stable makes me sad though.
[01:16] <binarymutant> sid all the way
[01:17] <binarymutant> I think** Ubuntu server is the exact same as Debian
[01:20] <chris4585> binarymutant, thats pretty much how I feel
[01:20] <binarymutant> yeah
[01:21] <binarymutant> I don't want to search the maintainers files to prove it though
[01:21] <chris4585> I think it doesn't really matter so much just whatever is more comfortable, if I really wanted I could setup a fedora server but I'm not that big into fedora
[01:21] <vychune> i thought so but i was suggested to go with debian by cyberanger, wrst , and someone else
[01:22] <vychune> i can't stand fedora
[01:22] <vychune> or suse
[01:25] <chris4585> I don't really like them either, mostly for desktop usage, but I'm pretty comfortable using anything that is well documented
[01:26] <Unit193> Go with CentOS? :D
[01:26] <vychune> never had a chance to
[01:30] <vychune> i might try that on my first server come to think about it
[01:31] <vychune> what packaging does it use?
[01:32] <vychune> chris4585: on a job i like the system to be familiar
[01:32] <vychune> but at home i'll change it a little as i go
[01:33] <chris4585> yeah, thats understandable, I'd go ubuntu or arch personally
[01:33] <vychune> anything debian based for me
[01:33] <vychune> arch i'm not good with yet
[01:33] <vychune> i have to uninstall it soon too
[01:34] <vychune> my mom needs a Winblows box for work
[01:37] <Unit193> Arch I wouldn't do with a server, and Cent is redhat community version basically. :P
[01:37] <vychune> ah
[01:38] <binarymutant> yeah Arch is not for servers
[01:39] <binarymutant> maybe home servers but not production
[01:39] <chris4585> I hear people say that, why is that?
[01:39] <vychune> right
[01:39] <binarymutant> chris4585, it's too bleeding edge
[01:41] <chris4585> ah
[01:41] <binarymutant> I pretty much get a kernel update every single day
[01:41] <vychune> binarymutant: damn, forreal?
[01:42] <binarymutant> yeah Arch keeps up with upstream
[01:42] <vychune> brb
[01:42] <binarymutant> nah I like bleeding edge
[01:42] <chris4585> binarymutant, do you have testing?
[01:43] <binarymutant> no it's a rolling release
[01:43] <chris4585> because I get a kernel update like maybe once or twice a week but that is for 32bit, I every now and then rebuild my pae kernel and use it everyday
[01:43] <binarymutant> I get them on the regular
[01:44] <binarymutant> 32bit vanilla
[01:44] <chris4585> well I meant the testing repo but I guess that wouldn't affect the kernel updates
[01:44] <binarymutant> maybe "every day" is an exaggeration but it's pretty close
[01:44] <vychune> ill do it later cant find my Windows stuff
[01:46] <chris4585> I keep both kernels just in case, update regular kernel whenever they come but never use it
[01:46] <binarymutant> what is pae?
[01:47] <chris4585> its 32bit basically but allows me to utilize all 8gbs of my ram
[01:47] <binarymutant> ooh
[01:47] <binarymutant> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension yeah started reading after I asked
[01:47] <binarymutant> wish I had that much ram
[01:49] <chris4585> its nice to have, chromium can take nearly 2gbs at times, and on windows it really is nice
[01:49] <chris4585> especially when gaming or something
[01:50] <binarymutant> yeah I bet
[01:50] <binarymutant> do want
[01:52] <vychune> nice chris4585
[02:20]  * netritious wipes brow
[02:20] <netritious> one more windows install to go! lol
[02:20] <netritious> how's everybody
[02:21] <binarymutant> netritious, do you clone your drives or each individually?
[02:22] <netritious> binarymutant: I clone for backups on my workstations that use winders...
[02:22] <netritious> right now though I am installing in KVM on Debian
[02:22] <binarymutant> oh
[02:22] <netritious> I just wanted to see if it worked, and it does appear to work...
[02:23] <binarymutant> yeah
[02:23] <netritious> I have XP 32-bit/64-bit, Vista Ultimate 64-bit, Windows 8 Release Preview 64-bit, next is win7
[02:23] <binarymutant> what about win8?
[02:23] <vychune> netritious: o/
[02:24] <netritious> how's it going vychune?
[02:24] <netritious> binarymutant: I mentioned that ^^
[02:24] <binarymutant> oh ya I see
[02:25] <binarymutant> my eyes roll back in my head everytime I read windows sorry
[02:25] <netritious> lol, np
[02:25] <netritious> that happens to me when I read arch lol
[02:25] <netritious> j/k, j/k
[02:26] <binarymutant> roflcopter
[02:27] <vychune> LOL
[02:27] <netritious> I still don't get the anti-windows sentiment. It's an OS. People use it. I like making money supporting it and hope to make money one day supporting linux too. It's really that simple for me.
[02:28] <netritious> I'm apathetic if it works.
[02:28] <binarymutant> I'm not anti windows, I just don't use it
[02:28] <netritious> I'll try Bubble Pink Penguin BSD if it just works.
[02:28] <binarymutant> it's super overrated too
[02:29] <netritious> With that I agree...windows is a dying platform.
[02:29] <vychune> netritious: installing win xp myself
[02:30] <netritious> vychune: slowest of them all, but works best in KVM comapred ot the other versions.
[02:30] <vychune> installing on an old optiplex
[02:31] <netritious> Ah the optiplex. Man I've done some crazy upgrading on those, the orginal Pentium versions anyway.
[02:32] <netritious> Once upon a time there were PCI slot upgrade CPU packages, so upgraded an optiplex with Pentium 120MHz to PII 400MHz.
[02:33] <netritious> vychune: ^^ My only real experience with an optiplex
[02:33] <netritious> binarymutant: Linux flavors (ubuntu and debian) have been flawless under KVM, and Debian is flawless as the host.
[02:33] <binarymutant> yeah I wouldn't expect it any other way :D
[02:34] <netritious> When I say flawless, I literally mean I have had 0 problems with Debian as a host OS for KVM.
[02:34] <netritious> or as guests.
[02:35] <netritious> After I get another win7 lic I'll start adding more distro's to the box for testing.
[02:35] <vychune> KVM?
[02:35] <binarymutant> kernel virtual manager...
[02:35] <binarymutant> I think
[02:35] <binarymutant> idk the acronym
[02:35] <netritious> Kernel Virtual Machine (I'm not 100% positive on that, but pretty sure)
[02:36] <binarymutant> the linux version of hypervisor
[02:36] <netritious> *Kernel-based Virtual Machine ref: http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/Main_Page
[02:37] <netritious> yeah, what binarymutant said
[02:37] <binarymutant> what's windows hypervisor thing called?
[02:37] <netritious> what's funny is that is so misleading...I used to think that it was container tech, not an actual hypervisor
[02:37] <binarymutant> i thought it was just 'hypervisor' but it's not..
[02:37] <netritious> Hyper-V
[02:37] <binarymutant> ah yeah
[02:37] <binarymutant> that one
[02:38] <netritious> idk know anything about Hyper-V
[02:38] <binarymutant> at least you know it's name :P
[03:11] <netritious> yes, well I know lots of stuff :P
[03:12] <netritious> got a little distracted...had one of those half-priced sonic shakes
[03:13] <vychune> LOIL
[03:24] <vychune> ahhhhhhh late night ric
[03:24] <vychune> *rice
[03:27] <vychune> im gonna turn in tonight guys
[03:27] <vychune> o/
[12:05] <wrst> netritious: ping
[13:05] <netritious> wrst: pong
[13:06] <wrst> netritious: sent you an email i think is interesting
[13:09] <wrst> netritious: i know you have been spearheading an renewed effort with the loco so wanted to get that to you and get your thoughts
[13:12] <netritious> wrst: I'm mulling it over. I think becoming official is a dead issue. No one has or can put in the time that's needed to "get 'er done" or we would actually be official.
[13:13] <wrst> netritious: i tend to agree
[13:13] <wrst> i guess my question is there any use in even responding to that?
[13:13] <netritious> On the other hand, having an actual Ubuntu evangelist reach out is new
[13:14] <wrst> i'm wondering if we might should craft an email explaining that to him, and also our unique geographical issues etc?
[13:14] <netritious> idk, something we can talk about in the meeting maybe?
[13:15] <wrst> yes i think that is what I'm thinking
[13:15] <wrst> also I'm not for sure if we have enough "love" for ubuntu either for it to be worth while?
[13:16] <netritious> and that's another issue altogether...I use to be an evangelist myself (unofficial of course) but not so much anymore...
[13:16] <netritious> Ubuntu isn't magic
[13:16] <wrst> me either netritious, I am really just a whatever gets the job done type person
[13:16] <netritious> doesn't solve world hunger, or address most of the poeple in this group anymore (arch)
[13:17] <wrst> no it is however great for say my mom, someone seeking a windows alternative etc etc
[13:17] <netritious> we need a TLUG or something
[13:18] <wrst> to be honest i don't feel its particularly good for enterprise, on the server I would go with debian and for desktop use I think i would likely go possible opensuse so I'm way off the reservation there
[13:18] <wrst> netritious: i can't argue with that at all
[13:21] <binarymutant> Ubuntu is magic, they got Steam
[13:21] <binarymutant> :P
[13:21] <netritious> idk, still thinking it over. For server I'm with you....Debian for me. I'll get to try more distros here shortly (next few weeks) but Debian has been rock solid for me on the server front, everything from FDE to RAID to VM to LAMP.
[13:22] <netritious> lol good point there binarymutant
[13:22] <wrst> yes and i think binarymutant hit the nail on the head i think ubuntu seems to be going more the way of the home machine, with the software center etc etc and nothing wrong with that, but I just don't see them being a business solution on the desktop if anyone is interested in going that direction
[13:22] <wrst> and at one time they were going to be a corporate desktop and they are just so far from that
[13:23] <netritious> oh btw binarymutant, there /are/ some differences between ubuntu server and debian ;)
[13:23] <binarymutant> besides juju?
[13:23] <netritious> yes, besides juju
[13:23] <wrst> binarymutant: debian "gets in the way" less IMO
[13:23] <binarymutant> and bayoubou or whatever it's called
[13:23] <netritious> byobu
[13:24] <binarymutant> yeah that
[13:24] <binarymutant> screen profile
[13:24]  * netritious knew the name of that too :D
[13:24] <binarymutant> lol
[13:25] <binarymutant> wrst, as for corporate desktop I think it all depends on the business's in-house software
[13:25] <wrst> binarymutant: yes and for the most part that means windows
[13:25] <netritious> remotely unlocking LUKS encrypted volumes is my biggest gripe with ubuntu server. works OOTB on debian.
[13:25] <binarymutant> yeah around here
[13:26] <binarymutant> wrst, Tennessee is pretty much locked-in to MS software. I don't really understand it but hey
[13:27] <binarymutant> I always thought we wouldn't be bc of the "Innovation Valley" and our 2 universities
[13:28] <binarymutant> and Scripps
[13:28] <wrst> binarymutant: yeah i don't see that changing anytime soon either
[13:28] <netritious> because when someone goes to Best Buy, or any other retail chain to buy a computer, it comes with windows
[13:29] <binarymutant> netritious, if a business is going to best buy for the desktops they've got a lot of problems
[13:29] <wrst> Windows 8 I think will be very much like vista, and we will hear all this year of the linux desktop stuff and all the people really irritated by win 8 will go to mac :)
[13:29] <binarymutant> wrst, agree
[13:29] <netritious> oh i didn't know the scope was just business
[13:29] <binarymutant> ah yeah for home users I understand why
[13:30] <wrst> netritious: even with the scope being business i think you are still correct, people are already familiar with windows because of that machine they got at best buy and it just makes sense for them not to have to learn a new OS at work
[13:30] <wrst> but there are some companies that will use a linux desktop
[13:30] <binarymutant> they shouldn't have to learn any OS, most ppl aren't techs
[13:30] <wrst> Lowes and Sherwin Williams are two I'm thinking of right off the top of my head
[13:30] <wrst> binarymutant: if the interface is different many people will freak out beyond belief
[13:31] <netritious> that and when you walk in the door it's "can you use windows and word? access? Adobe suite? None of which are available for linux. An alternative maybe, but not those products.
[13:31] <wrst> exactly netritious
[13:31] <binarymutant> right bc their HR is ... dumb
[13:31] <wrst> netritious: if people really want linux on the desktop it starts with apps and as we go more web app crazy that might help but you are correct
[13:32] <netritious> My last employer, when interviewed by the admin, I was asked...
[13:32] <netritious> "Can you code PHP?" Why yes I can.
[13:32] <netritious> "Can you write SQL queries for MySQL?" Why, yes I can. SQL is SQL.
[13:33] <netritious> "Can you manage our company web sites on IIS?" Why, yes I can.
[13:33] <netritious> Which is why I got the job. My point is, LAMP never entered the conversation with a "veteran" admin.
[13:34] <binarymutant> no offense but I'd say that company is doomed
[13:34] <netritious> nah, celebrating their 75th anniversary this year (sorry for spelling)
[13:34] <binarymutant> paying 2k+ for server side software that's no enterprise ready/scalable
[13:34] <binarymutant> they must be making money on something that doesn't require tech
[13:35] <netritious> dude, it's crazy what tech they have...fiber to each desktop and server, and an HP blade server.
[13:35] <netritious> and an IBM iSeries5
[13:36] <binarymutant> sure and that costs much
[13:36] <binarymutant> x86 dropins cost little
[13:36] <binarymutant> look at any enterprise, they aren't using windows
[13:36] <binarymutant> amazon, google, even MS itself was running linux for it's search engine (pre-bing)
[13:36] <netritious> look, I agree with you belive it or not. Even though Windows is my primary desktop OS I still agree.
[13:37]  * wrst sings the preference song
[13:37] <binarymutant> right so if a mid size company says windows only, I say they're crazy
[13:37] <netritious> Cost was the primary motivator for me experimenting with linux in the first place. LAMP just makes sense to me for web dev.
[13:37] <binarymutant> it's like saying money doesn't matter
[13:37] <binarymutant> netritious, exactly
[13:38] <binarymutant> meh preaching to the choir :P
[13:38] <netritious> The setup I have right now cost a fat whopping $600. All in hardware. I am still using it all today, minus one bad 160GB SATA drive.
[13:39] <binarymutant> brb
[13:39] <netritious> kk
[13:39] <netritious> ^^but that was only after discovering that a similar solution in winders was going to cost me around 10g's, half of which was in software licensing.
[13:40] <wrst> netritious: wow
[13:40] <wrst> wow!
[13:40] <wrst> that's why most people use a LAMP setup i suppose :)
[13:40] <netritious> well, take for example Hyper-V. Dumb. I would buy VMware before investing in Hyper-V.
[13:41] <netritious> oh wait, I can run ESX for free with an OpenFiler backend and iSCSI.
[13:41] <netritious> *ESXi
[13:42] <wrst> we have a windows server here, and I must say I hate it, had print spooler problems, and went to restart the service well finally got it restarted but the restart the service didn't work etc just a real pain sometimes, but probalby also because i don't fully get how windows server works either
[13:42] <netritious> Or, I can run KVM/Qemu without all the proprietary limitations in VMware products.
[13:42] <wrst> yep
[13:42] <wrst> and free virtualization is gold
[13:43] <binarymutant> yeah I used to sell those stupid stickers
[13:43] <netritious> poor wrst...having print server issues with winders :/ that's gotta suck.
[13:44] <netritious> binarymutant: what stickers?
[13:44] <wrst> well they have mysteriously resolved themselves
[13:44] <netritious> with a reboot wrst?
[13:44] <wrst> netritious: that's something I like about linux if it works it works, if its broken you gotta fix it!
[13:44] <wrst> no a reboot didn't work
[13:44] <binarymutant> what are they called, the ms license stickers
[13:44]  * netritious was laughing inside after typing that ^^
[13:44] <netritious> oh yeah, the COA
[13:44] <binarymutant> coa's ye
[13:44] <binarymutant> s
[13:45] <netritious> Certificate of Authenticity
[13:45] <binarymutant> it's been forever*
[13:45] <netritious> <-- just has a decent memory
[13:45] <binarymutant> most people think it's not added into the cost but it is
[13:46] <netritious> yeah, I wish I could get an AMD laptop that sells for $350 for $250 and without winders :/
[13:46] <binarymutant> dell does that I think
[13:46] <netritious> yeah it's been in the news lately
[13:46] <binarymutant> but I think they have some sort of deal with nvidia
[13:47] <netritious> I think shuttleworth even is quoted as saying "5% of all PC's shipped in 2013 will have Ubuntu installed"
[13:47] <binarymutant> nvidia and intel are the only gpu's I've seen on dells
[13:47] <wrst> well netritious they are working hard in india i mean that's a huge population base
[13:48] <binarymutant> netritious, I'd say shuttleworth is right
[13:48] <netritious> now that you mention it binarymutant that sounds accurate
[13:48] <netritious> about the nvidia/intel/dell comment
[13:48] <binarymutant> yeah
[13:48] <netritious> he would know
[13:49] <netritious> wrst: India has a huuuuuge population true.
[13:50] <wrst> and they are pushing there and in china so it could happen i suppose
[13:51] <netritious> It very well could. I hate the fact that UEFI is going to disrupt some of the momentum though. Not with Ubuntu, but with other linux distros.
[13:51] <netritious> I think ARM will change that in a big way as it's seeing more action in the consumer market.
[13:52] <wrst> yeah a lot of these hard core stallman peolpe will just have to get over themselves with uefi pay the 99 bucks and go on :)
[13:54] <binarymutant> there are ways around uefi i think
[13:54] <netritious> I'm about over Adobe products. I still don't know how to do half the things I do in DW or Photoshop in other OSS alternatives though. Will take a lot of getting used to.
[13:54] <netritious> But when MS kills updates for Win7 it will be gone for good on my desktops.
[13:55] <wrst> binarymutant: i'm sure people will find ways around it :)
[13:55] <wrst> netritious: so no win8 for you?
[13:55] <netritious> I stopped using winders server over four years ago.
[13:55] <binarymutant> wrst, arch wiki has a lot about it
[13:55] <netritious> Maybe wrst, will wait for the reviews to come in.
[13:56] <netritious> but I seriously doubt it. ARM is almost powerful enough. When dual/quad CPUs become more common I'll invest in that hardware instead of x86.
[13:56] <wrst> netritious: i have tried it soem and not just to bash it for bashing it but if people think gnome-shell and unity are way off, they look like ultra traditional desktops compared to win 8
[13:57] <binarymutant> <- doesn't know what win8 looks like
[13:57] <binarymutant> I suppose it relies heavily on composite
[14:00] <netritious> there will be a developer revolt with the release of win8
[14:00] <netritious> MS has changed so much with metro and obsoleted just about every other dev tech they currently support
[14:01] <wrst> yeah netritious i just don't understand what they were thinking really
[14:02] <binarymutant> isn't it still the nt kernel though?
[14:03] <binarymutant> the win8 screenshots I'm looking at don't look different. Just heavy on the composite
[14:03] <wrst> binarymutant: its different, no start button for one thing!
[14:04] <binarymutant> uh.. I must be looking at the wrong thing
[14:04] <wrst> all a bunch of flat looking squares
[14:04] <binarymutant> this one has a start button
[14:04] <wrst> and will probably be great for a tablet but not for a desktop
[14:04] <wrst> binarymutant: there is no more start button
[14:04] <wrst> unless you hack it somehow
[14:05] <wrst> earlier releases had a start button but they decided you didn't need that
[14:05] <binarymutant> ppl must have posted up that
[14:05] <netritious> don't get me started on all the crap I already strongly dislike about win8
[14:05] <wrst> binarymutant: here is an example: http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/14/3084563/windows-8-desktop-ui-screenshots-no-aero
[14:06] <netritious> binarymutant: the original Developer Release did have a start button, but it just took you back to that tiled metro screen
[14:07] <wrst> which was stupid IMO
[14:07] <wrst> and binarymutant here are you some more ugly screenshots: http://winunleaked.info/threads/290-Windows-8-RTM-on-the-way?p=8240#post8240
[14:08] <netritious> brb
[14:08] <binarymutant> lol watching the Jan2012 demo for it, "the tiles are alive"
[14:09] <binarymutant> they're really betting people are only going to use tablets
[14:11] <wrst> and hack off likely their largest userbase? corporate desktops?
[14:11] <binarymutant> yeah
[14:11] <wrst> makes no sense but more power to them
[14:11] <binarymutant> they must be really threatened by android and ios
[14:12] <binarymutant> the MS store, yeah android and ios are cutting into their profits
[14:13] <wrst> binarymutant: i know people say linux is fragmented and they are correct but microsoft seems to be a fragmented company
[14:14] <binarymutant> linux is fragmented?
[14:14] <binarymutant> none of the win8 videos I'm seeing are using a desktop. All tablets
[14:15] <binarymutant> urgh it has that side menu like unity
[14:15] <binarymutant> thats gross
[14:17] <binarymutant> windows is definitly not my cup of tea.
[14:17] <netritious> IMHO win8 is not very productive as a desktop OS
[14:20] <netritious> binarymutant: I know you would argue no winders OS makes a productive desktop :D
[14:20] <binarymutant> I have no problem with windows itself
[14:20] <wrst> netritious: it totally changes your work flow even more so than gnome-shell did
[14:20] <binarymutant> just the windows paradigm bothers me
[14:20] <wrst> i'm curious about win8 in a multi-monitor environment also
[14:21] <netritious> wrst: I'm currently just running in KVM/qemu
[14:21] <netritious> so no way to check
[14:21] <wrst> netritious: i had it installed in vbox but the video support was pretty poor so i doubt multi monitors would have worked
[14:21] <netritious> binarymutant: I get that...me too. Right now though it's helping me to pay the bills. :/
[14:22] <wrst> you gots to haz money!
[14:22] <binarymutant> netritious, I was also being negative about unity
[14:22] <netritious> oh and the layout?
[14:23] <binarymutant> yeah the popups depending where your mouse is
[14:23] <binarymutant> that's very annoying no matter what the underlying OS is
[14:23] <binarymutant> popups=bad
[14:23] <binarymutant> ;
[14:29] <binarymutant> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9Fczo6E5gE
[14:30] <netritious> http://imgur.com/a/iuf1r#0
[14:30] <netritious> binarymutant: ^^ current win8 release preview
[14:31] <binarymutant> is that the login?
[14:31] <binarymutant> what is that?
[14:32] <netritious> well, the first screen is meant to be pretty i guess as it serves no real function IMHO
[14:32] <binarymutant> oh
[14:32] <netritious> you have to "slide" it out of the way to get to the login screen
[14:32] <binarymutant> that's just gross http://imgur.com/a/iuf1r#3
[14:32] <netritious> after login you see the metro interface witht he tiles
[14:33] <netritious> yep, I totally agree. MS seems to be taking direction from school children or something.
[14:33] <binarymutant> lol or from unity
[14:33] <binarymutant> ** same thing
[14:34] <netritious> unity I am getting used to.
[14:34] <binarymutant> can't take it's side menu
[14:34] <netritious> if you only had a choice between unity and win8, which would it be binarymutant?  :_D
[20:39] <wrst> hello Guest2124