[12:06] <pygi> you know I am going to do the implementation of SCP, right? :)
[12:06] <pygi> but yes, ogra wrote the initial implementation which exists now
[12:07] <ark__> No. I did not know that. I thought ogra was the man
[12:07] <pygi> ogra wrote initial implementation which currently exists
[12:08] <ark__> Well I'm talking to the right guy after all. That's great.
[12:08] <ark__> Nice to meet you Mario
[12:08] <pygi> Same :)
[12:09] <pygi> bluekuja, you alive? :)
[12:09] <bluekuja> yep ubuntu-it-meeting
[12:09] <bluekuja> i was trying to add a packaging section
[12:09] <bluekuja> into the forum
[12:09] <bluekuja> e
[12:10] <pygi> ah, meeting :P
[12:10] <pygi> oki then :)
[12:10] <pygi> ark__, just a sec, lemme find something :)
[12:10] <ark__> If you have any detailed questions I prefer talking on the phone. I have free calling in North America so I don't mind calling.
[12:12] <pygi> ark__,  and I am in Europe :P
[12:12] <ark__> darn
[12:12] <pygi> ark__, We have to find a good way to implement the side of the client in a non intrusive way
[12:12] <pygi> Currently this means some very intrusive changes to x11vnc, which must conform to debian policy,
[12:12] <pygi> and the package must work as it did before the change if not used in ltsp.
[12:13] <ark__> What do you mean "side of the client"
[12:13] <pygi> well, to control and broadcast stuff
[12:13] <Amaranth> client-side
[12:13] <pygi> right :P
[12:13] <Amaranth> the student's computer needs a modified x11vnc for the teacher's computer to control it how we want
[12:14] <Amaranth> in the CAD lab at my highschool the teacher could show up what was on his screen
[12:14] <Amaranth> he'd lock us out and show us how to do things on his computer
[12:15] <ark__> I'm not sure if I understand this completely. Eric Harrison built the X vnc module so you can vnc into the client. Other than that my fl_TT program controls everything. The users do nothing.
[12:16] <pygi> ark__, right, well we need to modify that module
[12:17] <ark__> Why do you need to modify it?
[12:18] <pygi> because this way it's intrusive :P
[12:19] <ark__> the only person who can vnc into the client is someone who has the vnc password set in the root of the client env
[12:20] <ark__> read my installation instructions on my page
[12:21] <ark__> One student cannot vnc into another
[12:21] <ark__> because they don't know the password
[12:22] <ark__> I am a high school teacher btw
[12:22] <pygi> yup, saw that :)
[12:24] <ark__> I gotta get going. If you want to further this discussion please email me. Thanks.
[12:24] <pygi> oki, enjoy
[12:24] <ark__> bye
[12:39] <pygi> bluekuja, I still dont have my comment :p
[12:40] <bluekuja> pygi: meeting finished now
[12:40] <bluekuja> doing it
[12:40] <bluekuja> I need to concentrate to write down a great comment
[12:40] <bluekuja> lol
[12:44] <pygi> bluekuja, right:P
[12:49] <bluekuja> pygi: done
[12:49] <bluekuja> sorry for "the this"
[12:49] <pygi> don't worry ;)
[12:49] <bluekuja> I'm sleepy and i forgot to review it before commit
[12:49] <bluekuja> :)
[12:49] <pygi> lool
[12:50] <pygi> ok, I am now sorry for asking for comment :P
[12:50] <bluekuja> lol
[12:50] <bluekuja> I've voted 10
[12:50] <pygi> still sorry for asking for comment :P
[12:50] <bluekuja> :D
[12:50] <bluekuja> too late
[12:50] <bluekuja> :D
[12:51] <bluekuja> anyway it's not a problem mario
[12:51] <bluekuja> you know it
[12:51] <pygi> enjoy
[12:51] <pygi> I shall run to sleep probably
[12:52] <bluekuja> aww
[12:52] <bluekuja> nah wait me
[12:52] <pygi> bleh, after such a comment? :P
[12:52] <bluekuja> lol
[12:56] <pygi> bye bye :)
[12:59] <bluekuja> pygi: anyway it was a great comment
[01:00] <bluekuja> :P
[02:04] <bddebian> Heya
[03:52] <jsgotangco> good morning
[04:31] <LaserJock> hi jsgotangco
[04:32] <jsgotangco> hi
[04:50] <scud> man, i love edubuntu
[04:50] <scud> i have my 3 year old playing on it
[05:02] <jsgotangco> yay
[07:16] <cbx33> Boo
[07:16] <cbx33> ping Laser_away
[07:16] <cbx33> whoops
[07:16] <cbx33> LaserJock,
[07:18] <LaserJock> cbx33: hi
[07:18] <cbx33> howz the new gui look?
[07:19] <LaserJock> good, I'll have to think about it a bit more
[07:19] <LaserJock> I've been trying to get a headset working this evening
[07:20] <LaserJock> apparently we are using VoIP at Paris
[07:20] <cbx33> woh
[07:20] <cbx33> cool
[07:21] <LaserJock> so everybody can join in, and hear the BOFs
[07:21] <cbx33> how do i get the C header files that match my runningkernel?
[07:21] <LaserJock> kernel-headers?
[07:21] <cbx33> hmm tha'ts what I thought
[07:22] <cbx33> E: Couldn't find package kernel-headers-2.6.15-23-386
[07:22] <crimsun_> no
[07:22] <crimsun_> linux-headers-$(uname -r)
[07:23] <cbx33> crimsun_, that's what I did
[07:23] <crimsun_> no, you did kernel-headers
[07:23] <cbx33> oh sorry
[07:23] <LaserJock> bah, yeah
[07:23] <LaserJock> crimsun_ saves my butt again
[07:24] <LaserJock> good night cbx33
[07:24] <cbx33> nn LaserJock
[07:24] <LaserJock> I'm going to be now
[07:24] <cbx33> expect some changes when you awake
[07:24] <LaserJock> great, looking forward to them
[07:24] <cbx33> you're going to be now?
[07:24] <crimsun_> 'nighto, then.
[07:24] <cbx33> I thought you existed already?
[07:24] <LaserJock> wha?
[07:25] <cbx33> never mind :p
[07:28] <cbx33> crimsun_, is there a known bug with the gnome cups icon?
[07:28] <cbx33> mine is taking 99.5% of the CPU
[10:07] <jsgotangco> haha i can only laugh now
[10:07] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: wooo
[10:12] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: you got your visa?
[10:12] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: well yeah but here's a funnier story
[10:13] <jsgotangco> im supposed to have someone pick up my passport tomorrow
[10:13] <jsgotangco> but the guy at the embassy told me that their network is still not working
[10:13] <jsgotangco> and can't issue electronic visas
[10:13] <jsgotangco> *so*
[10:13] <jsgotangco> they're going to issue handwritten ones
[10:20] <highvoltage> ah
[10:22] <highvoltage> at least you
[10:22] <highvoltage> at least you're getting a visa :)
[10:22] <highvoltage> which is good.
[10:22] <highvoltage> i hope to get a call to say that i can pick up my visa in about an hour or so
[10:23] <jsgotangco> good luck, i can just imagine the others with me yesterday are also a bit surprised at the handwritten stuff
[11:59] <andi5> hi... i hope it is ok to ask this question here: does ubuntu feature gnumexp or not? i have found some entries in launchpad, but do not know what they are about... thanks in advance!
[12:13] <DanielC> Hello. I just replaced an ethernet card, so the old eth0 and eth1 config is wrong. How do I find out which card is now eth1 and which is eth0 ?
[12:15] <EmxBA> hi!
[12:21] <cbx33> DanielC: do you know mac addresses?
[12:21] <cbx33> you could always plug them both in, ping their ip addresses
[12:21] <cbx33> unplug one
[12:21] <cbx33> then do an ifconfig
[12:21] <cbx33> and see which is responding?
[12:21] <DanielC> cbx33: Not really. I only half know what a mac address is.
[12:21] <DanielC> cbx33: Well, the problem is that I can't get networking up on this computer.
[12:22] <cbx33> ok
[12:22] <cbx33> is dhcp running on the network?
[12:22] <andi5> DanielC: ubuntu has a hardware manager, there you can find the corresponding network device, do not know about edubuntu
[12:22] <cbx33> andi5: yes edubuntu has that too
[12:22] <DanielC> cbx33: yes
[12:22] <cbx33> ok, what happens when you do
[12:23] <DanielC> andi5: I took a look at it, but couldn't figure out which one was eth1 and which was eth0.
[12:23] <cbx33> are they both plugged into the network
[12:23] <andi5> but you see them? look at the second tab
[12:23] <DanielC> andi5: I saw one of them. When I didn't figure out if it was eth0 or 1 I didn't try to find the other.
[12:24] <DanielC> Ok, let's try on my desktop.
[12:24] <DanielC> Hardware manager. Under Devices I found my network card.
[12:24] <DanielC> select it, and click on the Advanced tab.
[12:24] <DanielC> Now?
[12:24] <andi5> now, for me there is the device and as a child of it "networking interface"
[12:25] <andi5> now = no
[12:25] <DanielC> ok:   net.interface     strlist   eth0
[12:25] <DanielC> So I guess that's my answer.
[12:25] <andi5> yep
[12:25] <DanielC> I'll try now on the server. Thanks!
[12:26] <andi5> cbx33: any idea on my question above?
[12:27] <DanielC> Hmm... I have eth2 and eth1 but no eth0. Is that bad?
[12:27] <EmxBA> does anyone know how can i setup my orinoco wifi PCMCIA card
[12:27] <cbx33> DanielC: not necessarily
[12:27] <DanielC> ok
[12:28] <andi5> DanielC: it can be damn bad if this circumvents your firewall
[12:28] <EmxBA> DanielC: could you help me with orinoco
[12:28] <DanielC> andi5: Ubuntu has no firewall anyways.
[12:28] <andi5> huh?
[12:29] <andi5> DanielC: run $ iptables -L   and tell me what you see ;-)
[12:29] <DanielC> EmxBA: Orinoco is a large rive branching from the amazon in Brazil and flowing through Venezuela into a delta into the Caribean, near Trinidad and Tobago. If that's not the one you're talking about, I can't help you :)
[12:29] <EmxBA> :) DanielC
[12:30] <EmxBA> i meant orinoco wireless chipsets
[12:30] <DanielC> andi5: No firewall rules.
[12:30] <EmxBA> ;)
[12:30] <andi5> hm.... then i must have configured it by just running firestarter once.... maybe i am wrong then :)
[12:31] <DanielC> andi5: Ubuntu defaults to not having any firewall, but also not having any services listening to any ports.
[12:31] <DanielC> Works well.
[12:31] <EmxBA>  DanielC: can you help me or not?
[12:31] <DanielC> EmxBA: As I said, the only Orinoco I know is the river. No, I know nothing about the chipset.
[12:32] <EmxBA> :)
[12:32] <EmxBA> ok
[12:32] <EmxBA> np
[12:32] <EmxBA> i'll try on #orinoco maybe
[12:32] <EmxBA> :)
[12:32] <andi5> EmxBA: i am quite sure there are loads of documents about linux+orinoco in the internet, as well as ubuntu+orinoco, have you tried to search a bit?
[12:32] <highvoltage> i had an orinoco card before and it just worked.
[12:32] <highvoltage> does iwconfig show the card?
[12:32] <EmxBA> yes
[12:33] <EmxBA> but iwlist eth1 scan doesn't show anything
[12:33] <EmxBA> but kismet does :)
[12:33] <EmxBA> really
[12:33] <highvoltage> and if you do a iwconfig eth1 essid NETWORKNAME key YOURKEY
[12:33] <highvoltage> does it connect?
[12:33] <EmxBA> and if the network doesn't require key
[12:34] <EmxBA> doesn't use WEP
[12:34] <EmxBA> than what?
[12:34] <highvoltage> then you can just leave out the key part
[12:34] <highvoltage> you should be able to set it up with the graphical network manager without any problems too.
[12:34] <EmxBA> i tried that, for example iwconfig eth1 essid "HOTEL SARAJ WIRELESS"
[12:34] <EmxBA> :)
[12:34] <EmxBA> and nothing
[12:34] <EmxBA> i got connected
[12:34] <EmxBA> but i had no route
[12:35] <EmxBA> nothing setup
[12:35] <EmxBA> in graphical network manager i cannot connect
[12:35] <highvoltage> do you have dhcp on your network?
[12:35] <EmxBA> i need to know right IP and gateway
[12:35] <highvoltage> perhaps try a dhclient eth1 ?
[12:35] <EmxBA> highvoltage, i think you haven't found out that I am searching for help for hacking into open wireless network :)
[12:36] <EmxBA> i do not know if there is any dhcp
[12:36] <highvoltage> heh
[12:36] <EmxBA> just found out (in kismet) that it doesn't use WEp
[12:36] <EmxBA> :)
[12:36] <EmxBA> great!
[12:36] <EmxBA> if you want to see few of my screenshots, go to http://<IP_ADDRESS>/
[12:37] <EmxBA> that's my apache server running (currently) on my laptop on which I am currently writing this, connected trough DIALUP :)
[12:38] <EmxBA> seen it?
[12:38] <EmxBA> this LOLair06 has WEP indeed
[12:40] <highvoltage> no, haven't seen it yet
[12:40] <EmxBA> just go to <IP_ADDRESS>/
[12:41] <highvoltage> ok
[12:41] <highvoltage> seems like i'm killing your connection. it's a bit slow :)
[12:41] <EmxBA> i know :)
[12:43] <EmxBA> yes, you are kiilling it really
[12:43] <EmxBA> upload:5kb
[12:43] <EmxBA> :)
[12:43] <highvoltage> heh
[12:44] <EmxBA> :)
[12:44] <EmxBA> after you see it, can you help me with gcc?
[12:44] <EmxBA> i installed it "sudo apt-get install gcc"
[12:45] <EmxBA> but when i want to compile any app, i get error:C compiler cannot create executables
[12:48] <highvoltage> i don't know what causes that. the little coding i do happens in python. i have yet to learn the wonders of C.
[12:48] <EmxBA> do you have Gcc installed?
[12:48] <highvoltage> yes
[12:49] <EmxBA> and?
[12:49] <EmxBA> can you compile anything
[12:49] <EmxBA> maybe cflags are bad?
[12:50] <highvoltage> i compiled a modem driver a while ago, so i suppose mine works.
[12:51] <EmxBA> ok
[12:56] <highvoltage> yay! my visa is approved! (just in time) shew!
[12:57] <EmxBA> :)
[12:59] <DanielC> This is bad. My thin client doesn't work again. When I try to login the screen goes black (normal) for a few moments but then, instead of starting Gnome, it logs back out.
[12:59] <DanielC> Any ideas? Help?
[01:00] <EmxBA> hi pygi
[01:16] <ogra> highvoltage, congrats !
[01:17] <pygi> ogra, what he did, what he did? :)
 yay! my visa is approved! (just in time) shew!
 :)
[01:17] <ogra> oops
[01:17] <pygi> ogra, niiiice :)
[01:18] <ogra> (only the first line indeed)
[01:18] <pygi> congrats highvoltage ;)
[01:18] <highvoltage> thanks ogra and pygi :)
[01:19] <ogra> hmm? whats wrong with opening an .exe file on a linux system ? with a correctly configured wine that works flawless
[01:19] <pygi> I do hope I'll be able to attend next conference :-/
[01:19] <pygi> ogra, or if it's a .Net .exe file :)
[01:20] <ogra> pygi, you can ask for sponsoring ;)
[01:20] <pygi> ogra, indeed, if I remember to do so :P
[01:20] <pygi> not that I would get approved or anything, but :)
[01:21] <ogra> well, nautilus gets a mime handler for
[01:21] <ogra> .exe
[01:21] <ogra> if you install wine ...
[01:21] <ogra> so you should just be able to dubleclick a setup.exe
[01:21] <ogra> indeed you cant install XP this way, but well ;)
[01:21] <pygi> right, but I wouldnt like wine handle .Net exe files, if that can be handled much better then Mono :P
[01:22] <pygi> bleh, true :)
[01:22] <pygi> I had kinda good discussion with the author of TeacherTool (or something like that :P)
[01:23] <ogra> i saw it
[01:23] <ogra> you didnt tell him that we dont use X at all
[01:23] <pygi> ah, good :)
[01:23] <pygi> yup, I am aware of that :P
[01:23] <pygi> We will continue discussion by mail anyway
[01:23] <ogra> an X extension for ltsp 4.2 cant work for us
[01:23] <highvoltage> ogra: there's nothing more wrong with it than running a java application, imho!
[01:24] <ogra> he's nagging since breezy already, i had a look at the code and didnt find much stuff we could reuse
[01:24] <pygi> hm,ok, so no need for me to look again?
[01:24] <ogra> our problem is ssh integration
[01:25] <pygi> right
[01:26] <DanielC> I can't login from the thin clients. After I type in the user name and password it logs me out again. It's just as if I had typed the wrong user name and password (except that I didn't).
[01:26] <ogra> additionally the ui makes me scream ... i wouldt give that to any teacher ...
[01:27] <pygi> ogra, that I agree :)
[01:27] <DanielC> How can I modify what the client computer does when you type the wrong password? That would help me diagnose the problem.
[01:27] <cbx33> hiya all
[01:27] <ogra> DanielC, did you change the NIc or the IP rnage or something like that for the client network on the server ?
[01:27] <ogra> *range
[01:27] <DanielC> ogra: I added a new network card. I think I configured things correctly.
[01:27] <cbx33> I think you did din't you DanielC
[01:27] <cbx33> you need to update the ssh keys
[01:28] <DanielC> ah
[01:28] <DanielC> What was that command again?
[01:28] <DanielC> ltsp-update-sshkeys?
[01:28] <cbx33> ltsp-update-keys
[01:28] <DanielC> I was close :)
[01:28] <cbx33> i think yo are right
[01:28] <ogra> DanielC, you were *right* (not close) ;)
[01:29] <cbx33> ogra: I should have known that seeing as I wrote the man pages
[01:29] <ogra> well, i often got it wrong as well in the beginning ;)
[01:29] <DanielC> ogra :)  I'm rebooting the client now, let's see what happens...
[01:30] <DanielC> ogra: Doesn't work :(
[01:30] <ogra> is the ssh server running ?
[01:30] <DanielC> The most significant change recently is that I replaced a NIC.
[01:31] <ogra> and did it update the keys for the right IP ?
[01:31] <ogra> (the output should tell you)
[01:31] <cbx33> :)
[01:32] <DanielC> The output lists both IP addresses.
[01:32] <ogra> ok
[01:32] <DanielC> I ran /etc/init.d/ssh restart. No change.
[01:32] <ogra> and the sshd is running
[01:32] <ogra> ok
[01:32] <ogra> can the user log in directly on the server without probs ?
[01:32] <DanielC> I can't find anything in /var/log/messages or /var/log/daemon.log
[01:33] <DanielC> Yes. If I'm sitting right at the server I can log in.
[01:33] <ogra> ok
[01:33] <ogra> create a rootpw on the client with: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd
[01:34] <DanielC> What's a rootpw?
[01:34] <ogra> then make a login attempt on the client, switch to console there and log in as root
[01:34] <ogra> a root password
[01:34] <DanielC> ok
[01:37] <DanielC> Ok, I'm root on the client text console.
[01:37] <ogra> did you first make a login attempt through the gui ?
[01:38] <DanielC> yes
[01:38] <ogra> (with the user you used before)
[01:38] <ogra> ok
[01:38] <ogra> so have a look at /var/log/ldm.log
[01:39] <DanielC> I'm sure that "Exit stauts -1" is bad.
[01:39] <ogra> yes
[01:40] <ogra> can you scp it to the server and then put it online anywhere so i can have a look ?
[01:40] <DanielC> Will do.
[01:41] <ogra> sigh, 120 mails in -users ...
[01:42] <DanielC> got it. Where's the pastebin again?
[01:43] <ogra> pastebin.ca for example
[01:44] <DanielC> http://pastebin.com/710515
[01:45] <ogra> #
[01:45] <ogra> #
[01:45] <ogra> Connection to <IP_ADDRESS> closed by remote host.
[01:45] <DanielC> :(
[01:45] <ogra> your problem lies on the server
[01:46] <ogra> have a look at the users .xsession-errors file (in the users homedir)
[01:46] <DanielC> ok
[01:46] <ogra> oh, and make sure to not have sabayon installed unless you added a profile for every user
[01:46] <ogra> sabayonn breaks ssh connections if no profiles are set up
[01:47] <DanielC> damm!
[01:47] <DanielC> sabayon it is
[01:47] <ogra> heh
[01:48] <DanielC> Ok, so what's the solution? To setup a profile for every user?
[01:48] <ogra> we'll fix that by adding some basic profiles for edgy
[01:48] <ogra> yes
[01:48] <DanielC> Ok, I'll go and do that now. Thanks.
[01:51] <DanielC> ogra: IT WORKS!!  Thanks!
[01:51] <ogra> :)
[01:53] <cbx33> ogra: www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress
[01:53] <cbx33> :D
[01:53] <cbx33> see the glorious new UI :D
[02:51] <slashdevnull> ogra: Still around?
[02:53] <pygi> hey jsgotangco
[02:55] <jsgotangco> hi!
[02:58] <jsgotangco> anyway i have this funny story with the embassy
[02:59] <jsgotangco> yesterday they told me they couldn't issue the electronic visa because their system was down or not connecting to somewhere god only knows
[02:59] <jsgotangco> but promised it would be done by friday
[03:00] <jsgotangco> so i went to work today and planned to have someone pick up my passport tomorrow
[03:00] <jsgotangco> but i called up the embassy just to make sure if its allowed
[03:01] <jsgotangco> they told me they still can't issue an electronic visa but said its ok even im supposed to leave on saturday morning here
[03:01] <jsgotangco> because they're going to issue me and the rest...
[03:01] <jsgotangco> HANDWRITTEN ONES
[03:01] <ogra> haha
[03:01] <ogra> bureocracy fun
[03:01] <ogra> slashdevnull, yes
[03:01] <jsgotangco> in my mind i said, so much for french technology
[03:02] <jsgotangco> heh me and 50 others yesterday were screaming for blood
[03:02] <slashdevnull> ogra, I'm still having the same problem as yesterday with ltsp on 6.06. However, I removed "quiet" and "splash" at boot time, and am seeing what looks to be the culprit
[03:02] <slashdevnull> Not video drivers. It's not getting that far.
[03:05] <slashdevnull> The final line, before everything grinds to a halt, is "nfs: server <IP_ADDRESS> not responding, still trying"
[03:06] <ogra> and <IP_ADDRESS> is surely your nfs server ?
[03:06] <jsgotangco> ogra: was the fun stuff you said yesterday concerned teamspeak?
[03:06] <ogra> did it already get annonced ?
[03:06] <jsgotangco> i received an email from elmo about it
[03:07] <jsgotangco> me and ajmitch were using it earlier
[03:07] <ogra> ah, cool
[03:07] <ogra> my amd64 lappie has no mic, so i cant really test before i have a headset
[03:08] <ogra> but at least we have it working on amd64
[03:08] <jsgotangco> im bringing a headset heh
[03:08] <slashdevnull> ogra: Yes, and other machines (already running a full environment) can access that share
[03:08] <ogra> slashdevnull, and you dont run a second dhcp server in that network or something ?
[03:09] <ogra> cbx33, the screenshot looks sexy ...
[03:09] <slashdevnull> I do not. That server does dhcp for that segment, thin and thick clients
[03:11] <ogra> and you didnt fiddle with /etc/hosts.allow or with any firewall rules or other crap that would break it ?
[03:12] <slashdevnull> I didn't, but I can check those.
[03:12] <ogra> well, if you didnt change the defaults that should be fine
[03:13] <slashdevnull> They look good. hosts.* are empty except for comments.
[03:13] <ogra> ok
[03:14] <ogra> can you post your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf to pastebin ?
[03:14] <slashdevnull> The last thing on-screen before stopping at that final error is scripts/init-* stuff
[03:14] <slashdevnull> I do not have an /etc/ltsp. Is that a part of -standalone?
[03:15] <ogra> err, yes
[03:15] <ogra> so where does your dhcp server run  then ?
[03:16] <slashdevnull> The server is running the "dhcp" package, which is 2.0pl5-19.4 according to dpkg
[03:17] <ogra> so you run it *on* the ltsp server anyway ?
[03:17] <slashdevnull> It also has dhcp3-client and dhcp3-common installed.
[03:17] <slashdevnull> yes
[03:17] <ogra> why didnt you use standalone then ? it comes preconfigured
[03:17] <slashdevnull> We were doing kickstart stuff on this server before setting it up as ltsp. It was already set up for that
[03:18] <ogra> you only need to change the ip rnage in the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf file to match the interface and it should run
[03:18] <slashdevnull> But, if I can make -standalone work for that, I can make the switch, sure
[03:19] <slashdevnull> I will backup my /etc/dhcpd.conf, remove dhcp server, ltsp-server, and install standalone
[03:19] <ogra> i suspect something is wrong with your dhcpd.conf (thats the reason why -standalone ships a very simplyfied version of that file that works right)
[03:19] <slashdevnull> ok
[03:19] <ogra> no
[03:19] <ogra> just install -standalone
[03:19] <slashdevnull> ok
[03:19] <ogra> no need to remove or backup anything
[03:19] <ogra> it wont touch your old conf ;)
[03:19] <ogra> (it will just ignore it)
[03:20] <slashdevnull> "The following packages will be removed: dhcp." That made me think I should backup. :)
[03:20] <ogra> it wont touch anya files you modified unless you use the --purge switch
[03:21] <ogra> ERRRRRRR
[03:21] <ogra> 2.0pl5-19.4
[03:21] <ogra> where the heck did you get such an old obsolete dhcpd version ?
[03:21] <ogra> tzhats not an ubuntu package
[03:21] <slashdevnull> dunno.
[03:21] <ogra> are you sure you didnt break the system by adding debian repos ?
[03:21] <slashdevnull> must have gotten put in by one of the other admins. grrr...
[03:22] <slashdevnull> Our other servers are debian
[03:22] <ogra> aha
[03:22] <ogra> looks to me like there is a mixed debian ubuntu setup running ...
[03:22] <slashdevnull>  cat /etc/apt/sources.list
[03:22] <slashdevnull> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper main restricted universe multiverse
[03:22] <slashdevnull> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-updates main restricted universe multiverse
[03:22] <slashdevnull> deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-security main restricted universe multiverse
[03:22] <slashdevnull> No debian repos in there
[03:22] <ogra> the only thing you could do then would be a reinstall
[03:22] <slashdevnull> of dhcpd?
[03:22] <ogra> ok
[03:22] <ogra> of the system
[03:23] <ogra> there is no way to clean up that mess if you mix the repos
[03:23] <slashdevnull> I'll check all of the installed packages for non-ubuntu
[03:24] <ogra> how would you do that ?
[03:25] <slashdevnull> That's what I'm trying to figure out. I'm starting with dpkg -l and loosing everything that shows "ubuntu" in it. Then, looking at what's left
[03:25] <ogra> that doesnt work
[03:26] <ogra> only packages we manually changed have the ubuntu tag in the version string ...
[03:26] <ogra> packages that are just rebuilt from debian with ubuntu dependencys wont have it
[03:26] <slashdevnull> Right, but the others can be passed into apt-cache show, and checked to see what they provide or require, filtering that many more of them out.
[03:26] <ogra> (but are still binary incompatible with debian)
[03:27] <slashdevnull> ogra: The "dhscp" package says "Origin: Ubuntu"
[03:27] <slashdevnull> er, "dhcp"
[03:28] <slashdevnull> It's from Universe. :P
[03:28] <ogra> aha
[03:28] <ogra> heh
[03:28] <slashdevnull> So, Install dhcp3-server, right?
[03:28] <ogra> sorry, i should have grokked that ... no debian alert then, but get the right packages :)
[03:28] <mhz> ogra: hi there
[03:28] <ogra> just install -standalone it should sort it
[03:29] <slashdevnull> Alrighty
[03:29] <ogra> hey mhz
[03:29] <mhz> ogra: as you know, there's this bolivian guy coming to Chile. I offered myself to provide him with Edubuntu CD's instead of Edubuntu DVD (they have no web connection no DVD drives)
[03:30] <ogra> mhz, he can order CD via shipit
[03:30] <ogra> *CDs
[03:30] <mhz> ogra: i am lost. What should I look up in Google?
[03:30] <ogra> ??
[03:30] <mhz> ogra: he needs the DVD content in CDs
[03:30] <ogra> i'm not sure what you mean
[03:30] <mhz> he needs lots of spanish support
[03:30] <mhz> to install in his lab
[03:31] <ogra> ah, k
[03:31] <mhz> yeah..
[03:31] <mhz> me and my non expressing well in english
[03:31] <mhz> :)
[03:31] <ogra> google for jigit and jigdo
[03:31] <mhz> he will request from shipit though + he'll get my cds
[03:31] <ogra> you should be able to make jigdo images
[03:32] <mhz> ogra: and is the 'expression': how to split DVD into many CDs?
[03:33] <mhz> or you mean, jigit will automatically split it for me?
[03:33] <ogra> i never used it, but i suppose so
[03:33] <mhz> okis
[03:34] <jsgotangco> mhz: it will
[03:35] <mhz> jsgotangco: hey!
[03:35] <mhz> thx
[03:42] <slashdevnull> So, ogra, just checking: The only file I should have to edit now is /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf. Not the one in /etc/dhcp3
[03:42] <ogra> yep
[03:42] <slashdevnull> coolio
[03:42] <ogra> only change the ip ranges ...
[03:43] <slashdevnull> alright. I have named hosts as well. Put thos in there, or another file?
[03:43] <ogra> the gettingstarted doc has instructions (see channel topic)
[03:43] <ogra> put them in there
[03:43] <slashdevnull> ok. thanks
[03:43] <ogra> if /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf exists, the server will only read that one
[03:46] <slashdevnull> Looks like I may be ready for yet another thinny reboot. Wanna take odds? ;)
[03:48] <slashdevnull> ogra: Stopped at the same point.
[03:49] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:49] <ogra> slashdevnull, hmm
[03:51] <ogra> and you can mount /opt/ltsp from any other machine thats not a thin client ?
[03:51] <slashdevnull> yup
[03:51] <ogra> i see no reason at all why it shouldnt work with ltsp ... weird
[03:52] <slashdevnull> YEah.
[03:52] <slashdevnull> I'm about ready to wipe and clean-install the whole box, just in case
[03:53] <ogra> you dont have any universe nfs packages installed by chance ? or a selfcompiled nfs server or something differently weird ?
[03:53] <slashdevnull> I'll check
[03:55] <ogra> all dpkg -l |grep nfs should show are nfs-kernel-server, nfs-common and libnfsidmap1
[03:56] <slashdevnull> that's it
[03:56] <slashdevnull> ii  libnfsidmap1      0.8-1          An nfs idmapping library
[03:56] <slashdevnull> ii  nfs-common        1.0.7-3ubuntu2 NFS support files common to client and serve
[03:56] <slashdevnull> ii  nfs-kernel-server 1.0.7-3ubuntu2 Kernel NFS server support
[03:57] <ogra> looks fine
[03:58] <ogra> portmap is also at 5-16ubuntu2 i assume
[03:59] <slashdevnull> ii  portmap            5-16ubuntu2        The RPC portmapper
[04:00] <ogra> and both (nfsd/portmap) are running on the server i assume
[04:00] <slashdevnull> yes
[04:04] <chris-t4> I am a newbie to using this IRC. Is this the proper place to  help with Edubuntu documentation?
[04:04] <ogra> yep
[04:06] <chris-t4> Great. I am creating some videos and spoken with JaneW about this earlier. They can be viewed at http://www.learningelectric.com/edubuntu.html     I need some feedback about these and suggestions for creating more videos. They are Flash format.
[04:07] <JaneW> hey chris-t4 !
[04:07] <chris-t4> Hi Jane. I found the chat room!
[04:07] <JaneW> welcome
[04:07] <DanielC> ogra:  Is sound supported on thin clients? From the website I can see that you've been thinking a lot about the issue but I can't tell if it's been resolved.
[04:08] <chris-t4> I have not tried to see the videos from a thin client and don't currently have access to do this. Could someone give it a try?
[04:09] <ogra> DanielC, yes, it is, you need to add SOUND=True to your lts.conf file
[04:09] <DanielC> ogra: thanks. Do I need to reboot anything after that? Just the thin client?
[04:09] <ogra> chris-t4, running video on thin clients is generally a bad idea and rather runs like a slideshow
[04:10] <ogra> just the client
[04:10] <DanielC> thanks
[04:10] <jsgotangco> JaneW: !
[04:10] <JaneW> hey jsgotangco
[04:11] <DanielC> ogra: My only lts.conf file is in an "examples" directory. It looks like I don't have an "active" lts.conf. Is this bad? (I don't know what lts.conf does).
[04:11] <JaneW> I serendipetously got the day off :)))
[04:11] <jsgotangco> oh really
[04:11] <jsgotangco> or are you just starting to have withdrawal symptoms
[04:11] <ogra> DanielC, you need to create one in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc
[04:11] <ogra> containing the line:
[04:11] <JaneW> I have done a 5km run, a 2km walk, dropped and fetched my kids from school, saw a movie and did a little shopping - perfect
[04:12] <ogra> [default]   SOUND=True
[04:12] <DanielC> ogra: Ok. Is it ok if that file has that one line and nothing else?
[04:12] <JaneW> and I was asked if I am an athlete at the shop...LMAO
[04:12] <ogra> yep
[04:12] <jsgotangco> not bad for someone doing nothing today
[04:12] <DanielC> ogra: thanks
[04:12] <JaneW> jsgotangco: no I am someone doing as I please today. I could get used to this :)
[04:13] <jsgotangco> lol
[04:13] <ogra> JaneW, well, you never belived us the lara croft comparison ... do you now ? ;)
[04:13] <jsgotangco> do you happen to know if higvoltage got his visa
[04:13] <JaneW> jsgotangco: and I am going to gym in an hour, to V-box \o/
[04:13] <jsgotangco> because he told me tomorrow is a holiday in za
[04:13] <ogra> i think he said he has
[04:13] <jsgotangco> JaneW: health freak
[04:13] <JaneW> jsgotangco: er he didn;t say anything about it yesterday. I hope so!
[04:14] <JaneW> he does have a firm grip though! ;)
[04:14] <ogra> DanielC, if you want to change settings for a specific workstation in lts.conf you replace default with te MAC address of the NIC of that client (or add a stanza for it)
[04:14] <chris-t4> Ogra - These videos explain how to do a workstation install and set up a computer with a teacher and student account. I thought this would be the experience that most teachers have first with Edubuntu.
[04:15] <ogra> chris-t4, yep
[04:15] <jsgotangco> where are these videos?
[04:15] <DanielC> ogra: Is that the typical use of lts.conf? To change settings for one workstation?
[04:15] <chris-t4> http://www.learningelectric.com/edubuntu.html
[04:16] <jsgotangco> did anyone hear of the worldcup in telnet ascii
[04:16] <ogra> DanielC, the typical usage of lts.conf in ltsp.org's ltsp is to do the setup *at all*, the typical use of lts.conf in ubuntu ltsp is to override the autodetection :)
[04:16] <DanielC> :)
[04:17] <ogra> but i saw the link :)
[04:17] <jsgotangco> nice videos
[04:17] <jsgotangco> ogra: i hope germany loses then
[04:17] <ogra> :P
[04:17] <ogra> i hope they dont, all that depression in the streets will even be harder to bear
[04:18] <DanielC> ogra: It didn't work, but at this stage I can't rule out hardware so I'll test that.
[04:19] <ogra> indeed that Hw autodetection for the soundcard driver must work, else you'Re screwed
[04:20] <ogra> i.e. clients with cyrix chipset have no driver at all that works
[04:20] <ogra> even they have a soundcard, you cant use it
[04:20] <DanielC> ogra: I can hear the sound on the *server's* sound card. Is that a bad sign?
[04:22] <ogra> that indicates that something went wrong
[04:22] <DanielC> Thought so.
[04:22] <ogra> you should either have no sound at all or sound from the client
[04:23] <DanielC> You sure I don't need to restart anything besides the thin client?
[04:23] <ogra> you didnt typo in lts.conf or something ?
[04:24] <chris-t4> jsgotangco - Thanks
[04:25] <jsgotangco> hmm
[04:25] <DanielC> cat /opt/ltsp/etc/lts.conf
[04:25] <DanielC> [default]  SOUND=True
[04:25] <jsgotangco> ogra: is there a kernel update?
[04:25] <ogra> DanielC, and what about /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf ?
[04:25] <ogra> ;)
[04:26] <DanielC> ogra: oops, mis-typed
[04:26] <DanielC> yes, I put it in ie86
[04:26] <DanielC> i386
[04:26] <ogra> jsgotangco, only edgy afaik
[04:26] <ogra> yeah :)
[04:27] <jsgotangco> i just got an update for 2.6.15-25
[04:27] <DanielC> ogra: cat /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
[04:27] <DanielC> [default]  SOUND=True
[04:27] <DanielC> ogra: (and this one is a copy-and-paste)
[04:28] <ogra> hmm
[04:29] <ogra> jsgotangco, i dont have any kernel upgrades pending here
[05:10] <cbx33> ogra, thanks for the compliment
[05:10] <cbx33> bzr branch just updated :D
[05:10] <cbx33> it's going good
[05:10] <ogra> great ! :)
[05:12] <cbx33> I'm learning :D
[05:12] <cbx33> it'll soon be beta release time
[05:12] <cbx33> think you'll have a mo to check out my code?
[05:12] <cbx33> soon?
[05:12] <cbx33> not now...it's not ready :p
[05:25] <cbx33> bbl guys
[05:54] <HedgeMage> Hi, all
[06:05] <bddebian> Hello HedgeMage
[06:06] <spacey> anyone uses scribus here?
[06:06] <spacey> nasty program
[06:07] <spacey> I can't write in a text area en when i import text it only displays squares
[06:07] <ogra> there was a bug about entering numbers in textfields, but that one is new+
[06:08] <bddebian> spacey: Change the default font
[06:08] <bddebian> There is a bug in LP about it
[06:08] <bddebian> I'd love to fix it but I can't figure out how scribus determines it's default font
[06:09] <ogra> Qt ...
[06:12] <spacey> bddebian: thanks, that helped at lot
[06:12] <bddebian> I live to serve ;-)
[06:12] <spacey> ogra, its really nasty.
[06:12] <spacey> too bad there is not a GTK variant
[06:13] <ogra> spacey, its a Qt bug and i didnt want to risk triggering a KDE rebuild short before release
[06:13] <spacey> ok =)
[06:14] <HedgeMage> hi bddebian, ogra, spacey
[06:14] <spacey> hi
[06:24] <chris-t4> Questions for creating documentation - If a teacher is going to create one non-administrative student account for all students to use, what would be some best security practices?
[06:25] <ogra> none, since that wont work well
[06:28] <chris-t4> This works very well in our school district with OS X. Is there not a way to do this well with Edubuntu also?
[06:28] <ogra> there is no way to do it in a sane way with openoffice and firefox, the desktop isnt the problem
[06:29] <ogra> but since you will likely use one of these apps, you should rather have an account per client
[06:29] <ogra> or per user
[06:30] <jsgotangco> they don't integrate well :/
[06:30] <ogra> epiphany should at least solve the browser prob
[06:31] <ogra> edgy will help us there :)
[06:31] <jsgotangco> *abiword* cough *gnumeric* cough
[06:31] <jsgotangco> lol
[06:31] <ogra> nah
[06:31] <jsgotangco> i was kidding
[06:31] <jsgotangco> :D
[06:31] <ogra> i know ;)
[06:32] <jsgotangco> hmm so the kernel updates are from -security
[06:32] <HedgeMage> chris-t4: also, if all students are logging on as the same user, they can all access and change one another's files, etc etc.
[06:32] <HedgeMage> chris-t4: it is a *bad thing* to share logins
[06:33] <ogra> PS: Congratulations and thanks for building Edubuntu.
[06:33] <ogra> It is the best looking *ubuntu of the bunch. rh.
[06:33] <ogra> haha :D
[06:33] <HedgeMage> :)
[06:34] <HedgeMage> You know, it wouldn't be hard to hack together a script to take a plaintext list of student names, create an account for each according to some profile, and then output a list of usernames and pws
[06:34] <ogra> sadly he didnt sign with RH. else we could pretend its redhat :)
[06:34] <HedgeMage> I should do that.
[06:34] <HedgeMage> chris-t4: would something like that help you out at all?
[06:34] <dan_young> HedgeMage: In my former school district, we used the 6-digit student IDs that all students had memorized for the lunch line...
[06:35] <ogra> there are several ... just pick the best and package it ;)
[06:35] <HedgeMage> ogra: since you know they exist, do you know any that are any good? :P
[06:35] <ogra> well, some users used some in breezy and that seemed to work
[06:36] <ogra> dont ask me which ones :)
[06:37] <HedgeMage> hehe
[06:38] <jsgotangco> lol
[06:38] <jsgotangco> i gotta sleep
[06:38] <jsgotangco> ciao
[06:38] <HedgeMage> ttyl jsgotangco
[06:38] <ogra> night jsgotangco
[06:39] <chris-t4> There are too many students and the students already have an afp sharepoint to save their files.
[06:39] <dan_young> chris-t4: how do the students know what their sharepoint is?
[06:40] <ogra> md5sum /home/$USER/muesli
[06:40] <ogra> ?
[06:40] <chris-t4> We have sharepoints created on OS X servers.
[06:41] <dan_young> right, but the students must have usernames and passwords to log on to those, right?
[06:43] <HedgeMage> darn, dan_young you beat me to it :P
[06:44] <chris-t4> correct
[06:45] <dan_young> so the Edubuntu server can authenticate users against the OS X server's LDAP database...
[06:45] <pygi> HedgeMage, today is meeting?
[06:47] <HedgeMage> pygi: yep, in a few hours
[06:47] <pygi> 20 UTC or h
[06:47] <pygi> what?
[06:48] <HedgeMage> 20:00 UTC
[06:50] <pygi> right
[06:50] <dan_young> chris-t4: NFS mount /Users as /home and auth against the OS X server, and becomes pretty transparent...
[06:51] <chris-t4> Thanks, I will try this.
[06:52] <pygi> HedgeMage, I will try to attend
[06:53] <HedgeMage> pygi: cool
[06:54] <chris-t4> I would really like it if there was a open source program like DeepFreeze for Edubuntu. We use this to create one student account that is "frozen". The students can alter things, but when the machine is restarted everything returns back to it's original state.
[06:55] <ogra> you mean like pessulus ?
[06:55] <DanielC> chris-t4: Good job with the flash tutorials. I notice that you created 1 account for all the pupils. Has that worked well for you?
[06:55] <chris-t4> I am not familiar with this. Does it for the same way?
[06:55] <HedgeMage> chris-t4: that's actually similar to something we've been talking about on the mailing list recently... there was something available but I forget what it was called.
[06:56] <ogra> pessulus is a lockdown tool for the desktop ...
[06:56] <DanielC> chris-t4: http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1082
[06:57] <chris-t4> DanielC - It has worked very well with other OS's, but I am now trying to make it work with Edubuntu.
[06:57] <DanielC> chris-t4: OpenOffice.org and Firefox are likely to cause problems.
[06:58] <chris-t4> DanielC - These are the kinds of things DeepFreeze stops.
[06:58] <DanielC> chris-t4: I was going to create one account for each year group but after trying for a few days we decided to tell the head teacher that we just couldn't do it and it'd have to be a single account per PC.
[06:59] <chris-t4> One account per student works great for elementary classrooms, but not secondary. There can be thousands of students.
[06:59] <slashdevnull> ogra: update: Installing ltsp server on new hardware. Fresh, clean install.
[07:00] <dan_young> chris-t4: we had a display manager "Session" type that just reset the desktop by nuking the desktop prefs; brutal but effective. If the student blows up their desktop, log out and log in with the Reset session to, erm, reset it.
[07:00] <DanielC> chris-t4: I just installed pessulus here and I'm running it. It looks like it'll prevent students from making changes (as opposed to deleting changes on logout).
[07:01] <chris-t4> Sounds like both of those may be good solutions.
[07:02] <DanielC> Run "sudo aptitude install pessulus" and give it a go.
[07:02] <chris-t4> what about application preferences?
[07:02] <DanielC> Doesn't look like it...
[07:02] <DanielC> Well...
[07:02] <DanielC> I see the option "disable save to disk"
[07:02] <dan_young> chris-t4: a complete solution probably will include several methods; might look in to a .bashrc that does some magic
[07:02] <DanielC> That should take care of any preferences, right?
[07:03] <DanielC> Any application preferences involves saving to the disk. So I assume that if we disable save to disk that should take care of everything...
[07:07] <chris-t4> This will take some experimenting. I'm trying to create documentation for the average teacher to be able to do this though so the process can't be too technical.
[07:22] <slashdevnull> ogra: Success with new server. Thanks for all of the help. Now I just need to figure out how to make everything work on the old server. :P
[07:23] <slashdevnull> ogra: I am even using fglrx on the new server. Unfortunately, the new "server" is a workstation, made to do double-duty for the moment.
[07:23] <ogra> just make everything the same as on the working one :P  :)
[07:23] <slashdevnull> heh
[07:23] <slashdevnull> Everything... but the hardware.
[07:23] <slashdevnull> The old server is beefy.
[07:23] <ogra> yeah looks like
[07:27] <slashdevnull> So... how do I take "Hibernate" out of the new Logout menu?
[07:27] <slashdevnull> Hopefully users can'thibernate the server. :P
[07:29] <ogra> search for hibernate in gconf-editor
[07:29] <ogra> there is a key for that you can uncheck
[07:30] <LaserJock> can we make that default for the server install?
[07:30] <slashdevnull> Seems like a sane default
[07:30] <slashdevnull> :)
[07:34] <ogra> hmm, might get a bit tricky
[07:38] <highvoltage> slashdevnull: luckily users can't hibernate, no :)
[07:39] <LaserJock> no? I thought they went underground right after release? oh wait, that's devs, nvm ;-)
[07:48] <RobinShepheard> hi all
[07:48] <LaserJock> hi RobinShepheard
[07:49] <RobinShepheard> hiya LaserJock
[07:49] <RobinShepheard> how are you??
[07:49] <LaserJock> tired
[07:49] <RobinShepheard> how come??
[07:49] <LaserJock> I'm warming up for the jet lag ;-)
[07:49] <RobinShepheard> jet lag??
[07:50] <LaserJock> I'm having a hard time sleaping because I'm thinking about Ubuntu :-)
[07:50] <LaserJock> Paris
[07:50] <LaserJock> and yes, I'm that pathetic
[07:51] <RobinShepheard> lol, I got you, unfortunately, due to joining the project a bit late I can't make paris
[07:54] <RobinShepheard> I wasn't around yesterday, I take it the cookbook meeting is still on tonight??
[07:54] <LaserJock> I don't know
[07:55] <LaserJock> I'd ask pygi or HedgeMage
[07:55] <HedgeMage> whowhat?
[07:55] <HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: yep, it's in just over 2 hours
[07:56] <RobinShepheard> cheers HedgeMage, pygi said to pester you about acceptance to the cookbook team
[07:57] <RobinShepheard> is it possible to be accepted,please, pretty pretty please ;)
[07:58] <chris-t4> Does the cookbook meeting take place here? I would like to listen in if possible. Sorry I'm a little new.
[07:58] <HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: why'd pygi say to ask me? silly mario...  I'd say once your first contribution gets added would be a good time, kind of a celebration :D
[07:59] <RobinShepheard> lol HedgeMage, Slave driver
[07:59] <RobinShepheard> HedgeMage: It is in #ubuntu-meeting again tonight isn't it??
[07:59] <LaserJock>  more like motivator ;-)
[07:59] <RobinShepheard> same meaning different end of the motivation LaserJock ;)
[08:00] <LaserJock> hehe
[08:01] <dan_young> chris-t4: I think they're all in #ubuntu-meeting
[08:01] <chris-t4> Thank you
[08:01] <RobinShepheard> sorry chris-t4, I was trying to get HedgeMage to confirm the location before I commited
[08:02] <RobinShepheard> guess she is probably a little busy
[08:02] <HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: yep, #ubunt-meeting
[08:02] <HedgeMage> sorry, I'm preoccupied.
[08:03] <RobinShepheard> cheers, No problem, I know there are other things more important than me :-(
[08:03] <chris-t4> RobinShepard - no problem
[08:03] <dan_young> RobinShepheard: I just saw that the Fridge said so, and I believe everything I read on the intarweb.
[08:03] <RobinShepheard> lol
[08:03] <LaserJock> dan_young: yeah, well fridge had a doc team meeting today that is really tomorrow :/
[08:04] <LaserJock> my iCal was all messed up ;(
[08:04] <dan_young> LaserJock: so there you go, I'm full of it and that is now well documented. ;-)
[08:04] <LaserJock> hehe
[08:06] <HedgeMage> LOL
[08:06] <HedgeMage> LaserJock: can I bug you in /msg?
[08:06] <ogra> HedgeMage, did someone mail the fridge guys so the channel is booked ?
[08:06] <LaserJock> HedgeMage: sure
[08:06] <HedgeMage> ogra: yep, it's all taken care of :D
[08:06] <LaserJock> ogra: it's on fridge so I would assume so
[08:06] <ogra> i had to bear some major rants because nobody of you books the room right
[08:07] <HedgeMage> ogra: on the fridge calandar and the #ubuntu-meeting topic and everything
[08:07] <ogra> ok
[08:07] <ogra> thanks :)
[08:07] <ogra> :D
[08:07] <HedgeMage> ogra: yeah, well, this is my first time doing it, but I followed Seveas' instructions, so if I did it wrong blame him ;)
[08:07] <ogra> no, its fine
[08:07] <RobinShepheard> neat pass HedgeMage
[08:07] <HedgeMage> hehe
[08:08] <ogra> i'm just worried about riddel killing me in paris because we have clashing meetings we both didnt register :P
[08:08] <LaserJock> lol
[08:09] <LaserJock> we need #ubuntu-meeting-informal for the casual get-together :-)
[08:09] <LaserJock> first come - first serve
[08:10] <dan_young> erm, #ubuntu-watercooler?
[08:10] <RobinShepheard> so LaserJock how can you tell if I am casual or not ????? :-)
[08:11] <LaserJock> dan_young: yeah, cool
[08:11] <LaserJock> RobinShepheard: if it is on fridge or not ;-)
[08:11] <RobinShepheard> lol ok, I flopped
[08:12] <LaserJock> or maybe fridge should turn into Ubuntu Scheduling since generally you don't put formal meeting annoucments on your fridge neccesarily
[08:12] <LaserJock> or mabye you do
[08:12] <RobinShepheard> is there an edubuntu fridge ??
[08:12] <HedgeMage> LaserJock: I put mine on a markerboard across the hall from the fish tank :P
[08:13] <LaserJock> HedgeMage: yeah, I was thinking more markerboardish
[08:13] <RobinShepheard> I hate to say it but mine are in gtodo
[08:14] <slashdevnull> Looks like ltsp sound is "implemented" according to launchpad, but SOUND is listed as not implemented in the lts.conf wiki page.
[08:14] <slashdevnull> Can I get sound to work on my individual thin clients?
[08:21] <slashdevnull> highvoltage: I do not believe you re: users not being able to hibernate the thin client. And, with good reason.
[08:22] <lucasvo> the new gnome-terminal is crap!
[08:22] <lucasvo> anybody know how I can change the locale?
[08:24] <RobinShepheard> lucasvo: doesn't it use the system default locale??
[08:24] <highvoltage> slashdevnull: hmmm... that's quite bad, perhaps i've just missed it, which is very strange. can they shut down the server too? (from a thin client)
[08:24] <slashdevnull> let me check
[08:26] <lucasvo> RobinShepheard: yes, and it sucks
[08:26] <lucasvo> RobinShepheard: with locale I mean input method
[08:26] <RobinShepheard> ahh I got you, I thought that you ment some how it was using a different one
[08:26] <slashdevnull> It's taking a few minutes to get back. hiberbate horked dhcp-server
[08:27] <RobinShepheard> lucasvo: as in keyboard layout
[08:27] <lucasvo> RobinShepheard: yes
[08:27] <lucasvo> UTF-8 or Western ISO
[08:27] <lucasvo> before the last update I was able to select it directly from the Keyboard Settings...
[08:27] <RobinShepheard> lucasvo: how come it is only a problem in gnome-terminal
[08:28] <lucasvo> RobinShepheard: There was a submenu Keyboard Settings
[08:28] <lucasvo> (in gnome-terminal)
[08:29] <RobinShepheard> I understand that, but surely if it is wrong in gnome-trminal it must be wrong all across the board shoudn't it ??
[08:29] <RobinShepheard> *terminal
[08:29] <lucasvo> RobinShepheard: no. There *was* an option to change
[08:30] <lucasvo> the setting for every single tab indivudally
[08:30] <lucasvo> for e.g. I had a tab with utf-8 and a tab with western iso
[08:31] <slashdevnull> highvoltage: I can no longer login via thin client to do any more testing. :P
[08:31] <slashdevnull> Login no longer works. :P
[08:31] <slashdevnull> I can login directly on the server, however.
[08:32] <RobinShepheard> lucasvo: can you possibly add it in gconf-editor and then choose from there?, I dont know I have not tried
[08:33] <lucasvo> RobinShepheard: I'll file a wishlistbug to get the submenu back :P
[08:33] <lucasvo> in general the new config editor in gnome-terminal is a "royal PITA"
[08:34] <highvoltage> slashdevnull: :(
[08:35] <slashdevnull> RobinShepheard: What did you do to recover from the hibernate problem?
[08:36] <RobinShepheard> slashdevnull: pulled the power cable :(
[08:36] <slashdevnull> heh. That doesn't seem to be working on this end
[08:36] <RobinShepheard> slashdevnull: it was only a test server
[08:36] <lucasvo> I *love* the WinXP bug :)_
[08:37] <RobinShepheard> slashdevnull: you have pulled all the power cable and left for 2 mins then put them back in a rebooted and it is still borked ?
[08:38] <RobinShepheard> lucasvo: you can change the encodings but that seems to be about it in gconf-editor
[08:39] <slashdevnull> Well, I have not given it the requisite 2 minutes. Maybe I'll try letting it sit and think about how bad it's being while I go to lunch
[08:40] <RobinShepheard> well I tried it and it seemed to work, but I wouldn't hold my breath, oh I tried to powercycle with the power button before I pulled the plug
[08:40] <RobinShepheard> power light wason when I pulled the plug
[08:40] <RobinShepheard> * was on even
[08:40] <slashdevnull> ok, thanks. I will be back. must eat - it's almost 3pm here, and I have had even breakfast yet today. :P
[08:41] <RobinShepheard> no probs, enjoy lunch
[08:42] <RobinShepheard> ping ogra
[08:43] <RobinShepheard> ping ogra__
[08:43] <HedgeMage> *** Reminder: Edubuntu Cookbook meeting in 1.5 hours.
[08:43] <HedgeMage> I'll be back before the meeting
[08:43] <RobinShepheard> I keep checking the time
[08:47] <lucasvo> RobinShepheard: where can I find the option in gconf-editor?
[08:48] <RobinShepheard> apps -> gnome-terminal -> global -> active encodings
[08:49] <lucasvo> ty
[08:49] <RobinShepheard> then you can choose character encoding under terminal
[08:49] <RobinShepheard>  lucasvo no problem
[08:50] <lucasvo> RobinShepheard: in Terminal I only have: Set Title, Reset and clear, Reset
[08:50] <RobinShepheard> lucasvo: I don't know whether it will fix your problem as the encoding is fine for me
[08:50] <lucasvo> RobinShepheard: I am actually missing this entry
[08:50] <lucasvo> that's the whole pont
[08:50] <lucasvo> it somehow disapperard
[08:50] <RobinShepheard> when you have gone into gconf-editor and added a new encoding
[08:50] <RobinShepheard> it appears
[08:51] <ogra> RobinShepheard, sorry i'm just in a meeting
[08:51] <RobinShepheard> ogra sorry to bother you but I have been thinking a bit about stuff to leave out of edgy, where do I leave suggestions??
[08:51] <lucasvo> RobinShepheard: it disappeared in an update
[08:52] <ogra> what do you mean by "leave out of edgy" ?
[08:52] <RobinShepheard> lucasvo: I went into gconf-editor and added a new encoding and then it appeared in the menu
[08:52] <RobinShepheard> ogra: the slimming down of the cd
[08:52] <ogra> aha
[08:54] <RobinShepheard> ogra: as the main market at the moment seems to be schools with pupils around the 16yrs and under, do you really need blender??
[08:54] <ogra> it was a major request on the edubuntu summit to have it
[08:54] <lucasvo> RobinShepheard, ogra: one could make a Voting on Edubuntu website
[08:55] <RobinShepheard> I am only going by the uk schools but that is way above anything thay teach here
[08:55] <ogra> additionally its only about 2M or 5 or something
[08:55] <ogra> lucasvo, surely not
[08:55] <lucasvo> ogra: why not?
[08:55] <ogra> RobinShepheard, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-edgy-cd-diet
[08:55] <RobinShepheard> true, but 2M would be a few language packs
[08:55] <lucasvo> ogra: a voting for which apps you need in edubuntu is reasonable imho
[08:56] <ogra> that links to a wikipage where i added a "user suggestions" section at the bottom
[08:56] <ogra> lucasvo, because votes are not really reliable
[08:56] <lucasvo> sure
[08:56] <ogra> RobinShepheard, 2M it not even 1 langpack
[08:56] <RobinShepheard> ahh I got it, cheers for that
[08:57] <ogra> probably half or a quater of one ...
[08:57] <RobinShepheard> ahh but you were talking about dropping the kde ones in the article and creating ones just for kdeedu
[08:57] <ogra> yo always have to take into account that we ship the whole of KDE translations for every lang we ship
[08:58] <ogra> *if* we decide to do it that way, yes ...
[08:58] <ogra> but the current situation means several MB for KDE for every lang
[08:58] <RobinShepheard> true, there is also the fact that gcompris links to gnuchess but it is not installed by default
[08:59] <RobinShepheard> also 'cos of space I understand
[09:00] <RobinShepheard> other thought would be to use thunderbird instead of evolution as the email client
[09:01] <RobinShepheard> the main advantage to evolution seems to be the exchange support, but I don't know if many schools use exchange
[09:03] <RobinShepheard> lucasvo: how is the encoding coming along??
[09:11] <ogra> lucasvo, the right way to make a new app selection is an edubuntu summit with as many educators as we can get there ...
[09:15] <DarkElf109> Hey everyone. I've got an LTSP question
[09:15] <DarkElf109> What's the best way to get sound and local mountable media working on thin clients?
[09:17] <blue-frog> RobinShepheard: one good thing about evolution is the ability to share its calendar I believe
[09:18] <befree> ola'
[09:18] <befree> i'm experiencing some problem..
[09:18] <RobinShepheard> blue-frog: fair point, but will that be used that much with school-tool??
[09:19] <RobinShepheard> befree: go on
[09:19] <befree> i get the X running but no login manager .. :(
[09:19] <blue-frog> nope indeed
[09:19] <befree> in the thin client
[09:19] <RobinShepheard> DarkElf109: I dunno the answer to that one I am afraid
[09:19] <blue-frog> RobinShepheard: thing is as well evolution works with palm pilot, not thunderbird (asaik)
[09:19] <befree> i'm using edubuntu 6.06 with a thin client with rtl8029
[09:20] <blue-frog> RobinShepheard: byt then teachers with palm may not be a lot...
[09:20] <befree> RobinShepheard, any ideia?
[09:20] <RobinShepheard> blue-frog: and less kids with them
[09:20] <RobinShepheard> befree: what is the problem in the thin client
[09:21] <befree> it loads the kernel correctly
[09:21] <befree> load X
[09:22] <befree> but doesn't load any login manager
[09:22] <RobinShepheard> what do you see on screen befree??
[09:23] <befree> do you know the grey screen of X?
[09:23] <befree> normally appearing before the login..
[09:23] <RobinShepheard> as in straight X not the gnome session??
[09:24] <befree> yes..
[09:24] <highvoltage> befree: that sounds like a problem you can get when using ltsp.org. how did you install ltsp and edubuntu?
[09:24] <befree> the normal installation..
[09:24] <befree> without modification..
[09:24] <RobinShepheard> edubuntu disk -> hard disk install ?
[09:24] <highvoltage> i'm just scrolling up... rtl8029 is a very slow card. do you perhaps have a faster card around?
[09:25] <befree> and apt-get update && upgrade
[09:25] <befree> i'm in brasil.. in a poor conext
[09:25] <highvoltage> ah, ok. so this isn't on thin clients? sorry... i made too many assumptions
[09:25] <befree> i'm using a satellitar connection right now :)
[09:27] <befree> and i have to make a lesson to the professors of this village in order to they could use old pc to build a small "telecentro"
[09:27] <RobinShepheard> befree, what happens if you ctrl+alt+f1 and then type sudo /etc/init.d/gdm/restart   when you ctrl+alt+f7 has login manager started??
[09:27] <RobinShepheard> doh sudo /etc/init.d/gdm restart
[09:28] <befree> to
[09:28] <befree> it doesn't do anything
[09:28] <RobinShepheard> what doesn't??
[09:28] <befree> or.. better.. if i press ctrlaltf1 it doesn't switch to console
[09:29] <RobinShepheard> ahh ok, how about using ctrl + alt + f2??
[09:29] <befree> same thing :)
[09:29] <RobinShepheard> if you hit caps locak does the light change??
[09:29] <befree> it seems blocked..
[09:29] <RobinShepheard> *lock even
[09:30] <RobinShepheard> does caps lock turn the light on and off??
[09:31] <ogra> befree, how much memory has that client ?
[09:34] <RobinShepheard> ogra: looks like you scared him away ;-)
[09:34] <ogra> or the sattelite moved ::)
[09:35] <RobinShepheard> lol
[09:35] <DanielC> was he on a sattelite connection?
[09:35] <RobinShepheard> yeah
[09:35] <RobinShepheard> v. high latency on them isn't there ??
[09:36] <DanielC> I couldn't quite figure out if he was sitting in front of a thin client or the server.
[09:36] <RobinShepheard> nah, I was not sure
[09:36] <ogra> he was talking about a client
[09:36] <DanielC> ok
[09:37] <RobinShepheard> I thought maybe if we could find out whether caps lock light worked at least we would know if he had crashed
[09:38] <befree> opa'.. sorry i was in a call
[09:38] <RobinShepheard> no problem
[09:38] <DanielC> no problem
[09:38] <ogra> he was pretty clear in his first three sentences i found
[09:38] <DanielC> befree: Does caps lock do anything?
[09:38] <RobinShepheard> with the light that is
[09:39] <ogra> befree, an ubuntu thin client needs at least 48MB to reliably boot ...
[09:39] <ogra> better 64M
[09:40] <befree> it has 64mb
[09:40] <ogra> thats fine
[09:40] <DanielC> ogra: 64MB? That seems a tad high for a thin client. Yeah, I know people have a lot more today, but my first Linux computer had like 16MB.
[09:40] <ogra> did the installation finish properly without any errors ?
[09:40] <RobinShepheard> befree, have you tried using the memtest option on the install disk on the client??
[09:41] <ogra> DanielC, we use the default ubuntu bits (kernel, libc and the like) that costs something
[09:41] <DanielC> ogra: Ok.
[09:42] <ogra> RobinShepheard, that would require a cdrom on the client :)
[09:42] <RobinShepheard> ogra: true, it may have one if it as 64mb of ram though
[09:42] <DanielC> The server must have a CDROM, so you can nick that.
[09:42] <RobinShepheard> DanielC: good point
[09:43] <befree> no .. it doesn't have cdrom
[09:43] <DanielC> Someone should make a memtest floppy.
[09:43] <ogra> befree, did the installation finish properly without any errors ?
[09:44] <befree> do you think it could be a RAM problem?
[09:44] <cbx33> ping LaserJock
[09:44] <cbx33> taken a look at gISOMount lately
[09:44] <befree> yes.. the server is a good new pc (p4 3.2ghz 512 Mb ram)
[09:44] <cbx33> yikes big crowd this evening
[09:44] <ogra> sounds like ldm isnt installed or something else in the LTSP builder failed during install
[09:45] <RobinShepheard> befree: it maybe, It could well be worth a test. I have run round in circles trying to find a problem and it was bad ram
[09:45] <RobinShepheard> cbx33: well it is the meeting in 15 mins
[09:45] <befree> is there any way to run with less then 48Mb of ram?
[09:45] <DanielC> befree: Could be RAM. This week I had a lot of "strange" problems on a client and it turned out to be RAM.
[09:45] <RobinShepheard> cbx33: did I see they made you a ebuntu member???
[09:46] <RobinShepheard> doh edubuntu
[09:46] <ogra> befree, do you use a lts.conf thats not compatible with ubuntu ltsp ?
[09:46] <cbx33> however I noticed a scsi port on the back..."HELLO BRAND NEW LTSP SERVER" :D
[09:46] <cbx33> RobinShepheard, I've been an edubuntu memebr for about a month now
[09:46] <RobinShepheard> ahh my mistake, sorry
[09:47] <befree> have you got some lts.conf examples? my lts.conf it's very simple.. i only specify resolution
[09:47] <cbx33> RobinShepheard, np
[09:47] <RobinShepheard> befree: what resolution are you trying to run??
[09:47] <ogra> befree, move it away and see if that solves it ... ubuntu uses autodetection
[09:48] <ogra> and not all options you know from ltsp.org are respected i.e. X_MODE_* isnt
[09:48] <befree> first i tried withou lts.conf.. and neither the X loaded
[09:48] <RobinShepheard> befree: http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted if ogra's suggestion deosn't work
[09:48] <RobinShepheard> HedgeMage: back just in time :-)
[09:48] <cbx33> ogra's suggestions _always_ work :p
[09:49] <cbx33> Hi HedgeMage
[09:49] <cbx33> howz the site going
[09:49] <RobinShepheard> befree: the sample lts.conf is at the bottom of the page
[09:49] <HedgeMage> cbx33: all done except for needing some more content... going to help mom with that tonight
[09:49] <HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: yep :)
[09:49] <cbx33> nice
[09:50] <befree> RobinShepheard, i used the getting started and didn't work :(
[09:50] <RobinShepheard> where did it fail??
[09:51] <befree> RobinShepheard, blank screen..
[09:51] <befree> no message in log files
[09:51] <RobinShepheard> and could you ctrl+alt+f1 ??
[09:52] <befree> no..
[09:52] <RobinShepheard> ok
[09:52] <ogra> befree, can you paste the lts.conf you use now to a pastebin (or if its not more than 5 lines, paste it here)
[09:53] <befree> [mac-address]
[09:53] <befree> XSERVER = vesa
[09:53] <befree> X_MODE_0 = 800x600
[09:54] <befree> X_VERTREFRESH = 60
[09:54] <befree> X_COLOR_DEPTH = 16
[09:54] <ogra> thats it ?
[09:55] <befree> yes
[09:55] <RobinShepheard> X_MODE_0 and X_COLOR_DEPTH are apparently not implemented yet
[09:55] <ogra> hmm, nothing harmful in ther
[09:55] <ogra> X_COLOR_DEPTH is implemented
[09:56] <ogra> X_MODE_0 isnt needed, xorg computes the modeline from X_VERTREFRESH and the detected capabilities
[09:56] <RobinShepheard> ok, in that case https://wiki.edubuntu.com/EdubuntuLtsConfParams needs updating
[09:56] <ogra> RobinShepheard, nope, we need a new page for dapper (see at the top (i probably should make it bold))
[09:57] <RobinShepheard> ok, my mistake
[09:57] <RobinShepheard> sorry
[09:57] <befree> so the only thing i should use is what?
[09:57] <lucasvo> ogra: a table would be good:
[09:57] <ogra> highvoltage has made a beautiful summary thats hidden in the edubuntu-docs package
[09:57] <befree> X_mode_0
[09:57] <befree> ?
[09:57] <lucasvo> Option | Function | Breezy | Dapper
[09:57] <ogra> befree, isnt even read
[09:58] <lucasvo> ogra: why aren't the docs on the website?
[09:58] <ogra> lucasvo, nope, i dont want breezy in there
[09:58] <ogra> lucasvo, no idea
[09:58] <DanielC> ogra: I think befree is asking which lines he should delete.
[09:58] <HedgeMage> cookbook meeting in #ubuntu-meeting starting now ***********8
[09:58] <ogra> befree, yes, thats something you could delete, but its not harmful, you can even leave it there
[09:58] <RobinShepheard> damn, I got to scoot, cookbook meeting is just about to start
[09:59] <DanielC> Can I come to the cookbook meeting?
[09:59] <ogra> highvoltage, the baeutiful second doc from edubuntu-docs
[09:59] <highvoltage> DanielC: of course!
[09:59] <DanielC> :)
[09:59] <RobinShepheard> of course DanielC it is in #ubuntu-meeting
[09:59] <ogra> DanielC, everybody can come to all our meetings, they are all public :)
[09:59] <befree> ogra, ok.. so.. it seems a ram problem..
[09:59] <ogra> highvoltage, a list of lts.conf parameters with descriptions
[10:00] <lucasvo> highvoltage: we need to work on the website contents
[10:00] <DanielC> befree: Do you have another computer you can test?
[10:00] <ogra> befree, why do you use vesa, whyt kind of graphics card is that ?
[10:00] <ogra> *what even
[10:00] <highvoltage> aaaah
[10:00] <befree> yes.. an identic one.. same problem!
[10:00] <highvoltage> that is on the website, i think
[10:00] <befree> both with ram problem?
[10:00] <lucasvo> highvoltage: but where :)
[10:01] <highvoltage> lucasvo: yep. tomorrow is a public holiday here. i intend to spend it on specs, website, and bugs :)
[10:01] <lucasvo> highvoltage: I'll write a todo list
[10:01] <highvoltage> lucasvo: great. i love todo lists. especially when they get smaller.
[10:01] <lucasvo> highvoltage: where can I login?
[10:02] <lucasvo> (in drupal)
[10:02] <highvoltage> /user
[10:02] <befree> anybody knows the minimum thin client specs using a debian sarge e ltsp?
[10:02] <ogra> befree, what does executing the following command on the server return: ls /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/sbin/ldm
[10:02] <sbartleylinux> ogra: ping
[10:02] <highvoltage> befree: i don't know what the official mimimum is, but i would recommend at lest a PII/233 with 48MB RAM for debian ltsp
[10:03] <ogra> sbartleylinux, i have to run for a moment, will be back in ~1h
[10:03] <DanielC> befree: You have two clients and they both show the same problem? Ok, so it's probably not flaky RAM. It *might* be insufficient RAM. You could try grabbing RAM from one computer and putting it in the other to give it 64MB. Just to test if that's the problem.
[10:03] <sbartleylinux> ogra: k.
[10:03] <befree> ogra, /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/sbin/ldm doesn't exist..
[10:03] <lucasvo> ogra: the edubuntu docs, where are they?
[10:04] <befree> sorry.. it exists,,
[10:04] <ogra> befree, but your edubuntu install did finish without errors ?
[10:04] <ogra> oh, k
[10:04] <befree> ogra, it exists.. what i have to look?
[10:05] <DanielC> befree: run it and see what it says
[10:05] <befree> which is the syntax?
[10:05] <ogra> anyway, its 10pm here and i should start finding something for breakfast before my stomach starts digesting important parts of my body ... back in 1h
[10:06] <befree> ogra, bom cafe da manha!
[10:06] <befree> ogra, good breakfast..
[10:06] <ogra> no, dont run it on the server, i wanted to know if our install is ok ...
[10:06] <ogra> heh
[10:07] <ogra> its rather a brinner (breakfast at dinner) :)
[10:07] <befree> ok.. it seems ok..
[10:07] <befree> it's a python program?
[10:08] <befree> is there a log of what is going on?
[10:09] <befree> ogra, here there is no brinner.. ther is drinker.. a beer before dinner..
[10:10] <befree> it's time to test more and more..
[10:11] <befree> before drinker time
[10:14] <cbx33> ping LaserJock
[10:18] <LaserJock> hi cbx33
[10:20] <EmxBA> hi everyone
[10:27] <pygi> cbx33, poke?
[10:42] <cbx33> hi pygi
[10:42] <pygi> cbx33, why arent you at the meeting?
[10:43] <cbx33> sorry dude had a bit of a hectic day
[10:43] <cbx33> forgot all about it
[10:44] <pygi> ah, oki, no worries
[10:44] <pygi> I was also late :-/
[10:46] <befree> see you! thx for the help


[10:51] <kay> They will even be replaced all nicely when you install newer ones
[10:51] <kay> It worked then and will work now
[10:51] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ic
[10:51] <kay> To save yourself from trouble, compile in a chroot
[10:52] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i'll c wot i can do without hogging up my system :)
[10:52] <kay> debootstrap is your friend
[10:52] <LuNaTiK^GuY> erm......remember i'm a Beginner lol
[10:52] <duende> either way, i still don't think you'll notice a difference.  i only recompile packages when there's options missing that i want
[10:52] <kay> Well, prefix everything with nice
[10:52] <LuNaTiK^GuY> chroot....
[10:53] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i think i'll stick to binary packages for now
[10:53] <LuNaTiK^GuY> (grin)
[10:53] <duende> good idea :)
[10:53] <LuNaTiK^GuY> can i just install kde-core....and then select and download only the packages i want?
[10:54] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i got this obsession with clean stuff
[10:54] <LuNaTiK^GuY> one media player, one/two browsers, one ftp client, one editor etc etc
[10:54] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i dont want to loose myself in choice....like what happened on mepis
[10:54] <duende> yeah, i'm pretty sure you can do that
[10:55] <duende> i haven't tried it in ubuntu, but i'm pretty sure it's possible, provided you allow for dependancies to resolve
[10:55] <LuNaTiK^GuY> knaptic takes care of that rite?
[10:55] <duende> yip
[10:55] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :)
[10:56] <LuNaTiK^GuY> whats the difference between 'su' and 'sudo'?
[10:56] <duende> su you need the root password
[10:56] <kay> su log you in
[10:56] <kay> sudo works through a deamon somehow
[10:56] <duende> by using sudo, the admin can determine who can have access to certain root-only commands
[10:56] <LuNaTiK^GuY> wots a deamon?
[10:56] <duende> a service
[10:56] <kay> Forget what I said :p
[10:56] <duende> and background service, like apache
[10:57] <LuNaTiK^GuY> do i need it for desktop use for now?
[10:57] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :)
[10:57] <duende> what? sudo?
[10:57] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ye
[10:57] <duende> yes
[10:57] <LuNaTiK^GuY> to do wot?
[10:57] <duende> you need sudo in order to use k/synaptic
[10:57] <duende> and do any other administrative tasks on your computer
[10:58] <LuNaTiK^GuY> isnt that usually done with su?
[10:58] <duende> you don't set a root password on ubuntu by default, you have to use sudo
[10:58] <duende> it's 'considered' safer
[10:58] <LuNaTiK^GuY> so i install kubuntu
[10:58] <LuNaTiK^GuY> then wot?
[10:58] <LuNaTiK^GuY> go to shell
[10:58] <LuNaTiK^GuY> and type 'sudo'
[10:58] <LuNaTiK^GuY> and then wot?
[10:58] <duende> lol
[10:58] <duende> after kubuntu is installed, that's it.  whenever you need to do an administrative task inside KDE, it'll ask you for your password
[10:58] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i'm a total Microsoftified person :(
[10:59] <duende> if you're going into console, and you want to execute a command that requires root, you use sudo instead.  for example, to edit your hosts file you would use "sudo nano /etc/hosts" rather then going 'su' and then running nano
[10:59] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ohhhh iccccc
[10:59] <LuNaTiK^GuY> that explains it ;)
[11:00] <duende> sudo will then ask for your password, and you put in your USER password to basically 'confirm' that you are that user
[11:00] <duende> users that have access to sudo are determined by the 'visudo' command
[11:00] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ok then....should be trivial :)
[11:00] <duende> yip
[11:00] <duende> nothing to it
[11:00] <LuNaTiK^GuY> now....Ubuntu or Kubuntu?
[11:00] <duende> well, one and the same
[11:01] <LuNaTiK^GuY> is it just the GUI choice?
[11:01] <duende> you install ubuntu, then you install kubuntu-desktop
[11:01] <LuNaTiK^GuY> but why is Ubuntu the no.1 on distrowatch.com
[11:01] <LuNaTiK^GuY> and ubuntu not close?
[11:01] <LuNaTiK^GuY> *kubuntu
[11:01] <duende> cause, kubuntu is a part of ubuntu, not a totally seperate entity
[11:01] <duende> as far as i know
[11:01] <LuNaTiK^GuY> the should add points then :)
[11:02] <duende> heh, i'm only new to ubuntu as well, i've ony been running it for a couple of weeks
[11:02] <duende> when hoary came out, however long ago that was
[11:02] <monchy> can't wait for breezy
[11:02] <duende> what are the release names from?
[11:03] <LuNaTiK^GuY> breezy? ie
[11:03] <duende> yah
[11:03] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i meant: wots breezy?
[11:03] <LuNaTiK^GuY> lol
[11:04] <duende> omg, i just went to install something and i typed "emerge"
[11:04] <monchy> name of the next release
[11:04] <monchy> breezy badger
[11:04] <LuNaTiK^GuY> 6.0?
[11:04] <monchy> 5.10 i think
[11:04] <blueyed> LuNaTiK^GuY: it's the development branch.
[11:04] <LuNaTiK^GuY> anyobdy here tried Lunar Linux?
[11:05] <LuNaTiK^GuY> they claim its easier than gentoo
[11:05] <LuNaTiK^GuY> although i wouldnt want to try it for sure!
[11:05] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i like ready set up stuff :)
[11:06] <LuNaTiK^GuY> if windows was free........what would u guys choose for ur desktop use....?
[11:06] <LuNaTiK^GuY> day to day office work, browsing, email, some gaming.....
[11:06] <LuNaTiK^GuY> nothing big
[11:06] <monchy> still linux
[11:07] <LuNaTiK^GuY> and reasons?
[11:07] <monchy> it can do everything windows does, except better
[11:07] <LuNaTiK^GuY> example?
[11:07] <LuNaTiK^GuY> dont get me wrong..i'm just curious
[11:08] <monchy> well i'm still new, but i like the filesystem over NTFS
[11:08] <monchy> using reiserfs btw
[11:09] <LuNaTiK^GuY> wots different from a desktop users point of view?
[11:09] <monchy> different between the filesystems?
[11:10] <monchy> or overall
[11:10] <LuNaTiK^GuY> advantages that u think are important to a normal day to day user
[11:10] <LuNaTiK^GuY> the differences i know about.....
[11:11] <LuNaTiK^GuY> resierfs may be better for HUGE filesystems etc etc....but to a guy with an 80gb hdd who uses 10 apps at most
[11:11] <LuNaTiK^GuY> wots the real difference whether he uses NTFS or ReiserFs?
[11:11] <LuNaTiK^GuY> btw: i'm only getting opinions for a tiny assignment i'm working on
[11:12] <duende> anyone know how to auto-execute commands on kde startup?  i want to start two daemons that are user-based
[11:13] <LuNaTiK^GuY> lets talk software....is Office 2003 visually more appealing than Open Office?
[11:13] <LuNaTiK^GuY> duende: dont ask me ;)
[11:15] <LuNaTiK^GuY> a Free MacOS...or Linux? (this is a tough one hopefully)
[11:17] <uniq> lunatik^guy: linux, i have a mac without macos and i'm proud of it.
[11:17] <LuNaTiK^GuY> WOW!!!
[11:17] <LuNaTiK^GuY> why do u hate macos so much?
[11:18] <uniq> duende: make a start.sh file in ~/.kde/Autostart/ with the commands you'd like to execute.
[11:18] <uniq> I don't hate macos. I just like kubuntu more.
[11:18] <duende> uniq: k, tnx
[11:18] <LuNaTiK^GuY> mac os or windows ;)??
[11:18] <uniq> macos
[11:18] <LuNaTiK^GuY> both free
[11:18] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :) :)
[11:18] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ok ok now we agree
[11:18] <uniq> windows is useless to me.
[11:18] <LuNaTiK^GuY> wot about gaming?
[11:19] <uniq> i don't do games.
[11:19] <uniq> ok.. i do a little kmahjongg
[11:19] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ohhhhhhhh
[11:19] <LuNaTiK^GuY> if u had to game
[11:19] <uniq> then i'd by a xbox or playstation or something.
[11:20] <LuNaTiK^GuY> xobx?
[11:20] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :)
[11:20] <uniq> some console, don't know which is the best.
[11:20] <LuNaTiK^GuY> u hate windows that much? is ther nothing which u can like about it?
[11:20] <monchy> xbox 360 is what i'd get
[11:20] <LuNaTiK^GuY> nothing wotsoever :)
[11:21] <uniq> well, windows with cygwin is somehow useable.. but very limited.
[11:21] <LuNaTiK^GuY> cygwin?
[11:22] <uniq> .com
[11:22] <LuNaTiK^GuY> wot is it ? (this is embarassing)
[11:22] <uniq> it's a linux environment for windows.
[11:23] <LuNaTiK^GuY> should i find that a tad paradoxal?
[11:23] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :)
[11:23] <uniq> i'll correct that to 'linux-like'
[11:26] <LuNaTiK^GuY> btw just an observation
[11:26] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i know this IS open source
[11:26] <LuNaTiK^GuY> but shouldnt linux distro's close in a little bit instead of opening up to hundreds?
[11:27] <LuNaTiK^GuY> and focus more on battling windows on the desktop?
[11:30] <uniq> why? :)
[11:30] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i dont know....more focus on killer apps mite convince more ppl to join the linux side
[11:32] <LuNaTiK^GuY> giving open office a facelift will help
[11:33] <LuNaTiK^GuY> and increase its bootup time
[11:34] <LuNaTiK^GuY> other than that open office is fine
[11:34] <LuNaTiK^GuY> internet browser...linux already wins
[11:34] <LuNaTiK^GuY> wot else?........
[11:36] <LuNaTiK^GuY> looks are on par with mac....way ahead of windows....
[11:38] <morten> Aloha
[11:38] <LuNaTiK^GuY> hi
[11:39] <uniq> lunatik^guy: openoffice 2 is on it's way.. looking good.
[11:40] <KaiL> uniq: way faster then 1.1?
[11:40] <uniq> i don't use office applications often.. but now i'm doing a psychology paper in openoffice. thinking of doing it in latex though.
[11:40] <uniq> kail: starts faster.. it still feels a bit slow to me.
[11:40] <uniq> it's not koffice-fast.
[11:41] <LuNaTiK^GuY> but k-office lags some festures :(
[11:41] <uniq> sure.
[11:41] <KaiL> "starts faster" as in only 1min50 after 2min before?
[11:41] <KaiL> or <1min now? ;)
[11:41] <uniq> <1min :)
[11:41] <KaiL> on a system, which tool >2min with 1.1?
[11:42] <KaiL> took
[11:42] <LuNaTiK^GuY> wot makes it start so slow?
[11:42] <KaiL> LuNaTiK^GuY: size
[11:42] <KaiL> should be the biggest binary in the unix world
[11:44] <LuNaTiK^GuY> size?
[11:44] <LuNaTiK^GuY> wot makes it so large?
[11:44] <KaiL> don't ask me
[11:45] <uniq> oo2-writer: 16 sec. oo1.1-writer: 22 sec.
[11:45] <uniq> on my laptop.
[11:45] <KaiL> not that much better
[11:46] <uniq> no, but it helps.
[11:46] <LuNaTiK^GuY> quite better for a laptop though
[11:46] <KaiL> maybe it can be even better with some more agressive optimisations
[11:46] <uniq> maybe.
[11:46] <KaiL> on laptops the disk is normally a lot slower than on desktops
[11:47] <KaiL> other parts aren't that much slower
[11:47] <KaiL> now somebody should try on a desktop
[11:47] <uniq>  Timing buffered disk reads:   72 MB in  3.05 seconds =  23.61 MB/sec
[11:48] <uniq> for my laptop.
[11:48] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i had read something on a site...that OO can be tweaked from the inside...to partially load upon boot up or something
[11:48] <uniq> well.. i should go to bed now. more psychology reading/writing tomorrow.
[11:48] <LuNaTiK^GuY> nitey :)
[11:48] <uniq> (it's so boring)
[11:48] <_jackson_> hi
[11:49] <uniq> gnite.
[11:49] <_jackson_> ive got a  quick question if anyonehas the time
[11:49] <KaiL> tell us
[11:49] <_jackson_> i've just installed newest kubuntu, first time ive ever used linux, and i tried to connect to kopete but get an error through the msn
[11:50] <KaiL> known bug
[11:50] <_jackson_> i checked the kopete app homepage and downloaded the newest version which has a bug fixed that was causing probs with msn msnger connections,
[11:50] <LuNaTiK^GuY> Yoper OO boots up in around 8 seconds
[11:50] <_jackson_> but now ive got the new version on my desktop as a zip file and don't know how to install it
[11:51] <KaiL> there's a Version 4:3.4.0-0ubuntu2.1 somewhere ;)
[11:51] <KaiL> that fixes this bug...
[11:51] <KaiL> afaik you can get it with the integrated update tool (kynaptic)
[11:52] <KaiL> I only wonder, why the server doesn't show it
[11:52] <KaiL> uhm, yes, there it is
[11:53] <_jackson_> i can get it through kynaptic?
[11:53] <KaiL> yes
[11:53] <KaiL> there are 3 big buttons in kynaptic...
[11:54] <_jackson_> cool i think i did it
[11:54] <_jackson_> should i uninstall the one that is on the pc already, or just reinstall the file on top?
[11:55] <KaiL> just update
[11:55] <KaiL> (means here "install")
[11:55] <_jackson_> cool
[11:55] <KaiL> it automatically removes the old before
[11:55] <KaiL> that works with every app :)
[11:55] <_jackson_> ok, thanks a lot.  i dont think im gonna regret getting out of windows :D
[11:56] <KaiL> even better: the second button up there marks every update avainable for installation!
[11:56] <KaiL> and the right one finally installed
[11:56] <KaiL> installes..
[11:57] <_jackson_> yeah, its pretty wicked, i must say as a casual pc user i would never have considered using linux.  it just sounded too intimidating
[11:57] <_jackson_> but it seems very user friendly and capable of much more advanced use than the other OS
[11:58] <KaiL> the problem about such tools is, that we don't talk enough about them
[12:00] <_jackson_> well thanks a lot Kail, have a nice day ;)
[12:00] <_jackson_> bye
[12:00] <KaiL> that's what I like - happy users :)
[12:00] <arthurb> Is it default behavior that kubuntu install sees my cdrom drive as hdb ?
[12:01] <KaiL> arthurb: if you have it as primary slave, every linux will see it there ;)


[16:30] <tyhicks> hello
[16:30] <chrisccoulson> hi
[16:30] <jjohansen> \o
[16:31] <tyhicks> #startmeeting
[16:31] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jun 22 16:31:04 2015 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:31] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[16:31] <jdstrand_> hi!
[16:31] <mdeslaur> hi!
[16:31] <tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[16:31] <tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[16:31] <tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
[16:31] <tyhicks> Thanks to Otto Kekaelaeinen (otto) for help on security updates (14.04 and 14.10) for the community supported mariadb-5.5 (LP: #1464895) last week. Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
[16:31] <tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[16:31] <tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
[16:32] <jdstrand_> I'm working with tyhicks on work planning/tracking
[16:33] <jdstrand> I'm also working on two embargoed issues
[16:34] <jdstrand> I hope to also get back to system-image update procedures
[16:34] <jdstrand> that's it from me
[16:35] <tyhicks> mdeslaur: you're up
[16:35] <mdeslaur> I'm working on updates
[16:35] <mdeslaur> I need to resping some of the python2.7 updates I worked on last week because I missed a CVE
[16:35] <mdeslaur> and will test them and publish them this week
[16:35] <mdeslaur> I also have some tomcat updates that are ready for testing
[16:36] <mdeslaur> besides that, I have an embargoed issue I'm working on
[16:36] <mdeslaur> and this week is a short week for me because of a national holiday on wednesday
[16:36] <mdeslaur> that's it, sbeattie, you're up
[16:36] <sbeattie> I'm on security bug triage this week
[16:36] <sbeattie> I'm also revisiting my gcc-pie patches
[16:37] <sbeattie> I'm also looking at some of the outstanding apparmor patches to try to release 2.10
[16:38] <sbeattie> and if no one gets to it before me, I'll verify the trusty apparmor sru.
[16:38] <sbeattie> that's it for me.
[16:38] <sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
[16:38] <tyhicks> I'm on CVE triage this week
[16:38] <tyhicks> I'll be working on an embargoed issue
[16:39] <tyhicks> publishing patch updates this afternoon
[16:39] <tyhicks> some work tracking improvements
[16:39] <tyhicks> and AppArmor userspace support for kernel keyring mediation
[16:40] <tyhicks> that's it for me
[16:40] <tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
[16:40] <jjohansen> Its a short week for me (off Tuesday and Wednesday).
[16:40] <jjohansen> I will be finishing up my dconf review and doing what ever sync is needed there to unblock there
[16:40] <jjohansen> I have some revision to do on a couple of my outstanding patches for 2.10, the rest are going to hit the time out and I will just commit them (hint, hint)
[16:40] <jjohansen> :)
[16:40] <jjohansen> I'll do what I can to help get 2.10 out of the door this week
[16:40] <jjohansen> and then get back to upstreaming work
[16:41] <tyhicks> I'll pitch in on AppArmor 2.10 patch review this week, as well
[16:42] <jjohansen> tyhicks: thanks
[16:42] <jjohansen> that is it for me sarnold you are up
[16:43] <sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week, I'll be working on finishing the serverstack braindump I started last week, working on the pcc64-diag-related MIRs, and perhaps sneaking an apparmor patch review or two along the way
[16:44] <tyhicks> chrisccoulson: you're up
[16:45] <chrisccoulson> I've got an embargoed update this week
[16:45] <chrisccoulson> I shall also be spending some time getting our firefox extension through Mozilla's review process
[16:45] <chrisccoulson> Other than that, I'll be working through Oxide bugs as usual and getting some more reviews done
[16:45] <chrisccoulson> that's me done
[16:47] <tyhicks> thanks
[16:47] <tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
[16:48] <tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
[16:48] <tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
[16:48] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/parcimonie.html
[16:48] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/python-restkit.html
[16:48] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/maven.html
[16:48] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libapache2-mod-nss.html
[16:48] <tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/putty.html
[16:48] <tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[16:48] <tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[16:50] <tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: Thanks!
[16:50] <tyhicks> #endmeeting
[16:50] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jun 22 16:50:58 2015 UTC.
[16:50] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-06-22-16.31.moin.txt
[16:51] <mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
[16:51] <jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
[16:51] <sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
[16:53] <sarnold> thanks tyhicks :)