[04:20] <ScottK> Riddell: I think calligra also needs the new librevenge:
[04:20] <ScottK> /usr/include/libodfgen-0.1/libodfgen/OdtGenerator.hxx:30:35: fatal error: librevenge/librevenge.h: No such file or directory
[06:50] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: why is kubotu broken?
[06:50] <apachelogger> no rss feeds?
[06:57] <apachelogger> oh, I am a bit of a stupid person, forgot to move the rss settings to the new database xD
[07:04] <apachelogger> kubotu: save
[07:04] <kubotu> aight
[07:04] <apachelogger> kubotu: rss show
[07:04] <kubotu> incorrect usage, ask for help using 'kubotu: help rss'
[07:04] <apachelogger> pft
[07:04] <apachelogger> kubotu: rss who watches
[07:04] <kubotu> branches-next: http://feeds.launchpad.net/kubuntu-packaging-next/revisions.atom (in format: default): watched by #kubuntu-devel
[07:04] <kubotu> branches: http://feeds.launchpad.net/kubuntu-packaging/revisions.atom (in format: default): watched by #kubuntu-devel
[07:04] <kubotu> bugs: http://feeds.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-bugs/latest-bugs.atom (in format: default): watched by #kubuntu-devel
[07:04] <apachelogger> that should be fixed I guess
[07:17] <Riddelll> ScottK: yeah it does
[09:08] <valorie> email sent
[09:18] <shadeslayer> valorie: thx
[09:18] <shadeslayer> I've replied
[09:18] <valorie> great!
[09:18]  * valorie goes to bed
[09:29] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: category d is danger will robinson
[09:30] <shadeslayer> C
[09:30] <shadeslayer> I said C
[09:30] <apachelogger> yes
[09:30] <apachelogger> there is no C because D is danger
[09:30] <shadeslayer> heh ok
[09:32] <apachelogger> it's the cover story because I forgot the original story behind D
[09:33] <apachelogger> it might have had to do with the tenth doctor having had problems with numerations
[09:33] <apachelogger> something equally important as danger will robinson anyway :P
[09:34] <shadeslayer> much fun to be had with lxc
[09:34] <shadeslayer> can't setup imager in there
[09:37] <apachelogger> use schroot
[09:37] <shadeslayer> yeah
[09:46] <shadeslayer> stupid apparmor
[09:46] <shadeslayer> disabling it makes it work
[09:46] <shadeslayer> in lxc
[09:46] <shadeslayer> trying to protect me from shooting myself in the foot, what if I *want* to huh
[09:47] <shadeslayer> it's only 12 PM, and I'm already hungry
[10:07] <Riddell> Mirv:  qml-module-qtserviceframework ← that's now current naming practice?
[10:07] <Riddell> what happened to qtdeclarative5-foo ?
[10:09]  * Riddell reads https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtsystems-opensource-src/+bug/1342031
[10:10] <Riddell> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-kde-talk/2014-March/001889.html
[10:11] <Mirv> Riddell: yes, that's the new way indeed. there's no hurry (Ubuntu archives have huge amount of QML modules) but better to rename at some point to be better consistent
[10:13] <Riddell> Mirv: gotcha, accepting qtsystems
[10:14] <apachelogger> Riddell: shadeslayer: thoughts on moving usb-creator from pykde to pyqt? currently it uses kicon, kmessagebox, kglobalsettings, kprocess, kstandarddirs, kurl, i18n, kfiledialog, kaboutdata
[10:14] <apachelogger> out of those kmessagebox, i18n , kaboutdata and kfiledialog are native to kf5
[10:15] <apachelogger> i18n is only used for kaboutdata it seems, so if we ditch that we don't need i18n, kmessagebox while very handy could probably be replaced by qmessagebox for the time being
[10:15] <Mirv> Riddell: thanks!
[10:15] <apachelogger> kfiledialog *could* be replaced if qfiledialog does actually go through qpa and launches a kfiledialog anyway (I doubt we use much fancy api)
[10:17] <Riddell> apachelogger: I think having qt5 is more useful than having kde classes so go ahead
[10:17] <Riddell> apachelogger: with the exception of i18n where it's needed
[10:17] <Riddell> apachelogger: I think using qfiledialog is advised by upstream now no?
[10:18] <apachelogger> Riddell: the actual ui i18n is passed through usb-creator-core so that's pure gettext from what I can tell
[10:19] <apachelogger> as for qfiledialog, I dunno, I certainly saw plasma-nm using a filedialog class in kio xD
[10:19] <Riddell> which is lovely
[10:19] <apachelogger> ah, usb-creator is largely preferring qt classes over kde anyway
[10:19] <apachelogger> e.g. uses qprogresdialog apparently
[10:19] <Riddell> Warning This class should be avoided in new code. QFileDialog should be used instead.
[10:20] <Riddell> apachelogger: ↑
[10:20] <apachelogger> perfect then
[10:20] <apachelogger> ditching all the kde classes
[10:20] <apachelogger> bug 1315866
[10:20] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: is the underlying bug for that fixed?
[10:20] <apachelogger>     #       Ref: http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/pipermail/pyqt/2014-March/033929.html
[10:21] <apachelogger> hm
[10:21] <apachelogger> Riddell: def translate(self, prop): uses i18n
[10:22] <apachelogger> I have no clue what that thing is supposed to achieve tho
[10:22] <apachelogger> # Description: Re-usable include which re-implements the translate method
[10:22] <apachelogger> #              from uic, and changes it to use gettext.
[10:22] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: not that I'm aware of
[10:22] <apachelogger> ah, I guess that can be wired thorugh _() as well
[10:22] <apachelogger> anyway
[10:22]  * apachelogger gives this a tr
[10:22] <apachelogger> y
[10:27] <Riddell> Mirv: what about is there's multiple modules in each one? separate packages? http://paste.kde.org/psx5ovlqw
[10:28] <Riddell> so qml-module-org-kde-draganddrop etc?
[10:29] <shadeslayer> why not qml-module-$framework
[10:30] <Mirv> Riddell: there has been one qml-module- package for each QML module, although I agree it might mean quite a lot of binary packages in some cases
[10:32] <Mirv> qml-module-org-kde-kquickcontrols/kcoreaddons/drananddrop sounds according to Lisandro's schema in that case
[10:36] <Riddell> gotcha
[10:59] <BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
[11:18] <Riddell> "I tested the neon iso yesterday and it looks absolutely stunning!"
[11:18] <Riddell> omgubuntu love  http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/07/kde-plasma-5-released
[11:27] <Riddell> hola sgclark
[11:29] <sgclark> Riddell: good morning
[11:31] <Riddell> seen the omgubuntu love?  http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/07/kde-plasma-5-released
[11:31] <Riddell> "I tested the neon iso yesterday and it looks absolutely stunning!"
[11:31] <Riddell> I like all the comments
[11:31] <shadeslayer> are you sure about that :p
[11:32] <Riddell> well the one I quoted I like, I haven't read the rest :)
[11:32] <shadeslayer> heh
[11:33] <sgclark> very cool!
[11:33] <Riddell> Mirv: qml-module-qtserviceframework Depends: libqt5serviceframework5.  should that not be =binary:version ?
[11:39] <Riddell> sgclark: what exciting things are you doing today?
[11:40] <sgclark> Riddell: finishing up last few copyright cleanups. Definately have some room to compile stuff or whatever you like :)
[11:40] <Riddell> sgclark: there's a very exciting new release of about-distro out
[11:41] <Riddell> and partitionmanager has a genuinely exciting release cos it'll make it work
[11:41] <sgclark> where do I find those?
[11:42] <Riddell> http://download.kde.org/stable/about-distro/1.1.0/src/about-distro-1.1.0.tar.xz.mirrorlist
[11:42] <Riddell> partitionmanager dunno, google knows all
[11:43] <sgclark> ok
[11:48] <Mirv> Riddell: hmm, probably. thanks, I'll file a bug about it so that it doesn't get forgotten.
[11:48] <santa_> Riddell: is baloo-widgets gone in plasma 5.0.0 ?
[11:49] <Riddell> santa_: there's no release yet
[11:49] <Riddell> will be released with applications I guess
[11:50] <santa_> oh
[11:54] <soee> 13.10 support ends today ? :)
[11:59] <santa_> regarding this change http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging-next/krunner/revision/50
[12:00] <santa_> Riddell: ↑ the point of is not having conflicting libraries if the soname changes
[12:19] <sgclark> Riddell: are these for trusty or utopic?
[12:41] <BluesKaj> hope the virtual desktop wallpaper choices is fixed soon ...prefer different wallpaper for each desktop
[12:58] <soee> BluesKaj: activities ftw :)
[13:04] <BluesKaj> don't need activities soee vds are enough for a home user like me
[13:06] <soee> BluesKaj: yeah but what i like in activities for example: i can have one called development when i know i won't be using it next 2 weeks i juts stop it and its 'gone' for a while, than i can enable it again and have all configured as before ready to use :)
[13:08] <apachelogger> I still don't get usb-creator's translate function
[13:09] <BluesKaj> well, I use launchers for different apps and files
[13:15] <yofel> soee: yep, saucy reached EOL
[13:19] <Riddell> sgclark: utopic
[13:19] <alvin> Quick yes/no query: Is there EFI support on the Project Neon iso?
[13:20] <Riddell> santa_: yes the data packages should be put back in libs
[13:20] <Riddell> alvin: no I don't think so, that's black magic
[13:21] <alvin> I feared as much.
[13:21] <shadeslayer> alvin: I
[13:21]  * alvin fetches his voodoo dolls.
[13:21] <shadeslayer> alvin: I'm working on getting a Kubuntu ISO + Plasma 5 with EFI support
[13:21] <shadeslayer> though ETA is unknown
[13:22] <shadeslayer> blocked on Colin
[13:22] <alvin> shadeslayer: You're my hero. I'll wait. (take your time)
[13:22] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: halp
[13:22]  * shadeslayer runs away
[13:22] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: ssup
[13:22] <apachelogger> pyqt is being shittsy again
[13:23] <apachelogger> :'((((
[13:23] <Riddell> "waiting on colin to do some valuable code" is more polite to say  :)
[13:23] <shadeslayer> heh :P
[13:23] <apachelogger>     self.__mainWindow.ui_dest_list.itemChanged.emit(item, 0)
[13:23] <apachelogger> AttributeError: signal was not defined in the first super-class of class 'QTreeWidget'
[13:23] <apachelogger> why why why why why
[13:23] <shadeslayer> recently I've been anything but polite
[13:23] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: welcome to the club of angry men \o/
[13:23] <shadeslayer> \o/
[13:24] <apachelogger>         persist_mb = target['persist'] / 1024 / 1024
[13:24] <apachelogger> :O
[13:24] <shadeslayer> wat
[13:24] <shadeslayer> wat
[13:24] <shadeslayer> wat
[13:24] <apachelogger> it's obvious
[13:24] <apachelogger> there is a property that is divided by stuff and out comes mb
[13:24] <shadeslayer> no, I was going wat @ AttributeError: signal was not defined in the first super-class of class 'QTreeWidget'
[13:24] <apachelogger> oh yeah
[13:24] <apachelogger> so
[13:25] <Riddell> shadeslayer: nonsense, i've been the bad cop
[13:25] <apachelogger> there's a couple of things wrong with pyqt5
[13:25] <apachelogger> first of all you cannot connect via qobjects anymore
[13:25] <apachelogger> so connect(foo, signal(bar), slot(yolo)) will throw an error because you need to use foo.bar.connect(yolo)
[13:25] <shadeslayer> right
[13:25] <shadeslayer> that was the case with 4 as well
[13:25] <apachelogger> the problem with that of course is that connections happen at runtime of the runtime of the runtime so unless you have a very fancy regex you can't detect that shit
[13:25] <shadeslayer> though it was optional
[13:26] <apachelogger> it's the kind of shit you'd not want to do ever in an interpreted language
[13:26] <apachelogger> like not ever ever ever ever
[13:26] <shadeslayer> much fun
[13:26] <apachelogger> but that aside
[13:26] <apachelogger> it now is lying to me qtreewidget.itemChanged.emit(item, column) is not there it says
[13:27] <apachelogger> of course that cannot be the case because that signal was there since forever and a glimps at the cpp docs says it is still there
[13:28] <apachelogger> so now I am introspecting the metaobject of the qtreewidget
[13:28] <apachelogger> and guess wat
[13:28] <apachelogger> b'_q_emitItemChanged'
[13:28] <apachelogger> tada
[13:28] <apachelogger> pyqt is shit and I have no clue why we are using it
[13:28] <apachelogger> q.e.d.
[13:29] <santa_> Riddell: ok, my next candidate mass merge proposal: update lib*.install paths so a soname change wouldn't do unnoticed, example: https://code.launchpad.net/~panfaust/kubuntu-packaging-next/baloo-work/+merge/227146
[13:29] <santa_> I plan to do something similar to all the frameworks packages if it's ok
[13:31] <Riddell> santa_: yep seems sensible
[13:32] <Priyantha> Hi all :)
[13:32] <Riddell> hi Priyantha
[13:32] <Riddell> shadeslayer: kdeclarative updated with new qml-module package naming
[13:33] <kodanda> Installed plasma 5 on 14.04. After loggin in I see only blank screen. any ideas how to fix this?
[13:33] <Priyantha> hi I was wondering about the new kde plasma5 desktop :) and tried to install it on my Ubuntu/Kubuntu Utopic
[13:33] <Priyantha> but I am not able to install it yet
[13:34] <soee> Priyantha: why >
[13:35] <apachelogger> :'<
[13:36] <Priyantha> well with trying to do a "apt-get install kubuntu-plasma5-desktop" I am getting a lot of dependency problems
[13:36] <shadeslayer> Priyantha: lets move to #kubuntu, and plz pastebin your dep issues
[13:37] <Riddell> kodanda: I guess the same thing, support in #kubuntu
[13:37] <Priyantha> oops
[13:37] <BluesKaj> Priyantha,  install qt5-default
[13:37] <Priyantha> yes sorry
[13:37] <Priyantha> wrong channel ;)
[13:38] <Priyantha> sorry about that
[13:49] <shadeslayer> !find /usr/lib/syslinux/chain.c32 utopic
[13:49] <shadeslayer> no it's not
[13:49] <shadeslayer> you lying bastard
[13:50] <soee> uh oh :) owncloud 7 is coming ... :D
[14:08]  * Riddell blogs https://blogs.kde.org/2014/07/17/plasma-51-kickoff
[14:21] <BluesKaj> hmm desktop just crashed left with bar across the bottom where the panel was, desktop was black
[14:25] <BluesKaj>  /var/log/syslog shows systemd suddenly failed to load
[14:26] <Riddell> systemd isn't ment to load, unless you explicity use it
[14:32] <BluesKaj> Riddell,  I'm using it, it's setup in the grub line 'quiet splash'
[14:34]  * BluesKaj likes to live near the edge
[14:44] <alket> will the next release be on KDE 5
[14:49] <Riddell> there's no such thing as KDE 5
[14:49] <Riddell> we won't be using Plasma 5 in the next release but some parts of KF5 may well creep in
[14:49] <alket> yeah , i wasn't sure how these things called , but the video of "kde 5" looked nice
[14:49] <alket> thanks for reply
[14:53] <Riddell> shadeslayer: kdesu rejected!  fixed in bzr, please reupload
[14:54] <shadeslayer> ok
[14:57] <sgclark> Riddell: lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging-next/partitionmanager is ready for review. Please note the patch was only needed to build in pbuilder. Build in chroot was fine without. I have no idea why.
[15:05] <kubotu> feed branches-next had 7 updates, showing the latest 6
[15:07] <Riddell> sgclark: becoming a cmake ninja are you?
[15:08] <Riddell> sgclark: it's still a kdelibs4 app so just put the packaging in kubuntu-packaging not in kubuntu-packaging-next
[15:08] <sgclark> Riddell: ok
[15:09] <Riddell> sgclark: dep 3 headers in the patch will make policy wonks happy :)
[15:12] <ScottK> Riddell (or anyone with commit rights in KDE git) please commit http://paste.debian.net/110262/ for e-c-m.  It's got a ship it in https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/119339/
[15:13] <Riddell> ScottK: "but bear in mind this is not part of ECM" what does that mean?
[15:13] <sgclark> Riddell: I am getting an odd error on quiltrc perhaps, can you expain what you want because I am not a quilt ninja :(
[15:14] <ScottK> Riddell: It's in the attic, not formally part of the release since it's not used ATM.
[15:14] <ScottK> I was thinking I might work on making it do PyQt5, since that'll be needed for bindings at some point.
[15:15] <Riddell> sgclark: what's the error? what are you trying to do?
[15:18] <sgclark> Riddell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7809467/  and atm only trying to figure out what you mean dep 3 headers
[15:18] <Riddell> ScottK: pushed!
[15:18] <ScottK> Riddell: Thanks.
[15:18] <Riddell> ScottK: lining yourself up to become pyKDE maintanier I take it? :)
[15:19] <ScottK> No.
[15:19] <ScottK> That much pain I'm not into.
[15:19] <Riddell> sgclark: I have no .quiltrc
[15:19] <Riddell> never had any need
[15:20] <Riddell> sgclark: just edit the file with your favourite text editor to add headers
[15:20] <Riddell> sgclark: http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/  adds meta data to the patch
[15:20] <Riddell> sgclark: I've not read that fully, I just use the "Sample DEP-3 compliant headers" at the bottom to copy and paste
[15:21] <Riddell> sgclark: paritionmanager compiles and runs, looking good, the question is have you been brave enough to test it?
[15:21] <Riddell> a bug in a partitioning tool can have nasty consequences
[15:21] <sgclark> haha no
[15:21] <sgclark> yes it can
[15:22] <sgclark> I don't have any spare drives to be brave with :( sorry
[15:24] <Riddell> hmm, trying it with a usb drive I can't get it to do very much
[15:24] <Riddell> I wonder if it has some authentication that's broken with plasma 5
[15:25] <sgclark> probably
[15:25] <sgclark> I have run into that with a few things in plasma 5
[15:25] <Riddell> what we need is a plasma 4 user to test
[15:25] <Riddell> !testers | new partitionmanager
[15:25] <Riddell> ah BluesKaj, you went back to plasma 4?
[15:26] <shadeslayer> busy making ISO's, go away ....
[15:26] <sgclark> lol
[15:26] <sgclark> I can run out and get a usb drive. I have plasma 4 on this laptop
[15:26] <BluesKaj> Riddell,  yes for a couple of days , but back on 5 bow
[15:26] <BluesKaj> now
[15:28] <Riddell> trying with a virtual machine
[15:29] <apachelogger> kubotu: order a glass of white wine
[15:29]  * kubotu slides a glass of white wine down the bar to apachelogger
[15:29] <apachelogger> tomorrow is friday isn't it
[15:29] <apachelogger> oh
[15:29] <shadeslayer> yes
[15:29] <shadeslayer> friday \o/
[15:29] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: btw, I'll be out at 14 or 1430 tomorrow, so we'd better roll an early iso
[15:29] <shadeslayer> ok ok
[15:30] <shadeslayer> I don't think there are any blockers off the top of my head
[15:30] <apachelogger> buildwise everything is green/orange anyway
[15:30] <shadeslayer> mhm
[15:30] <apachelogger> oh
[15:30] <apachelogger> actually not
[15:30] <apachelogger> huh
[15:30] <apachelogger> oh lol
[15:30] <apachelogger> wrong server
[15:31] <shadeslayer> wat
[15:31] <Riddell> sgclark: working well on a virtual machine, so I think it will just be the broken kauth
[15:32] <Riddell> sgclark: lovely, make the changes and I'll upload to ubuntu
[15:32] <sgclark> Riddell: ok great
[15:33] <sgclark> Riddell: lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/partitionmanager fixed patch headers, was there something else?
[15:36] <Riddell> sgclark: let me try without your patch, if we keep it then it needs to be sent upstream
[15:37] <sgclark> Riddell: it builds in chroot without, which is perplexing, all depends were satisfied
[15:39] <Riddell> maybe something not updated and the update needs it?
[15:39] <Riddell> builds fine here without it
[15:39] <Riddell> locallt
[15:39] <Riddell> trying pbuilder
[15:41] <_Groo_> Riddell: whats up?
[15:41] <_Groo_> Riddell: i changed jobs and stuff is starting to settle down
[15:41] <_Groo_> Riddell: if you guys want i can restart helping with kubuntu packaging once again
[15:42] <alket> how can I get involved in testing ?
[15:42] <Riddell> _Groo_: we always want that :)
[15:42] <Riddell> alket: we need something tested on utopic on plasma 4 just now
[15:42] <alket> or something easy
[15:42] <Riddell> alket: we can add your to the !testers call
[15:42] <alket> really , will virtualbox will do it ? or i have to make a fresh install ?
[15:42] <_Groo_> Riddell: :) this weekend im gonna see which packages i worked one and left behind (i can think of wally for ex)
[15:43] <_Groo_> alket: use pbuilder, its a chroot/debuild on steroids
[15:43] <Riddell> alket: virtualbox always better than nothing
[15:43] <Riddell> _Groo_: he's just running it not building it
[15:43] <_Groo_> Riddell: ah ok, sorry
[15:43] <Riddell> alket: this needs tested http://starsky.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/partitionmanager_1.1.0-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb
[15:44] <_Groo_> Riddell: btw, i have been playing with apt-btrfs-snapshot lately
[15:44] <_Groo_> Riddell: saved my life a few times, would you guys be open to include a systemsettings module if i wrote one for ditto proggie?
[15:45] <Riddell> _Groo_: for ditto proggie?
[15:45] <_Groo_> Riddell: ofc it would be linked to apt-btrfs-snapshot package and would only install if kubuntu-desktop was installed
[15:45] <_Groo_> Riddell: for apt-btrfs-snapshot
[15:46] <Riddell> what is apt-btrfs-snapshot?
[15:46] <Riddell> backup to btrfs?
[15:46] <_Groo_> its a python program that creates snapshots before any dpkg related install/remove/etc
[15:47] <_Groo_> like a recovery mountpoint on steroids
[15:47] <_Groo_> its so easy to use to go back before a broken system its a shame its not on by default
[15:48] <_Groo_> if you use btrfs subvolumes for root, give it a try
[15:48] <Riddell> "you can revert failed apt operations (like apt-get upgrade) and roll back to the previous system state with apt-btrfs-snapshot"
[15:48] <alket> !testers
[15:48] <Riddell> _Groo_: sounds like something that should be an addon to muon (brainstorming)
[15:48] <alket> how to add myself there
[15:48] <_Groo_> Riddell: yep, i use it a lot to test my xorg git+mesa git +llvm git + radeon git + intel git package creation
[15:49] <Riddell> alket: ask Tm_Tr is my usual way
[15:49] <_Groo_> Riddell: yeah, but the catch is, you have some pre reqs
[15:49] <alket> Tm_T: could you add me to list of testers please ?
[15:50] <_Groo_> for instance, you need to have btrfs (duh) as / or it wont work (kinda obvious but that means we need to have a pretty solid checking program in place)
[15:50] <_Groo_> that if kubuntu would ship it as default
[15:51] <_Groo_> for that to happen, kubuntu would need to put btrfs as default / filesystem
[15:51] <_Groo_> so baby steps, i was thinking in creating a systemsettings module (since apt-btrfs-snap is a CLI program)
[15:51] <_Groo_> maybe integrate it with muon
[15:51] <Riddell> we go with whatever ubuntu uses as default filesystem format, I know they've evaluated btrfs so I guess there's reason why they didn't change to it by default
[15:52] <_Groo_> and add it to the kubuntu system (dont know the name) that suggests packages to be installed when triggered
[15:52] <_Groo_> like for ex, if you have btrfs on instalation, the install script will ask if you want to install apt-btrfs, or something in that line
[15:52] <Riddell> so I doubt we'd ship the kcm by default, since it wouldn't work with the default setup
[15:52] <Riddell> but of course if you write it and it works we'd put it in the archive
[15:52] <_Groo_> it could be shipped but just not activated
[15:53] <Riddell> I'd strongly advise having it in kde git too as a kde project, no point going alone
[15:53] <_Groo_> but yeah, having it in multiverse would be a good start
[15:53] <Riddell> universe (multiverse is for non-free)
[15:53] <_Groo_> sorry, universe
[15:53] <_Groo_> always confuse the 2 :P
[15:54] <_Groo_> if you have btrfs, give it a try, you will be pleasantly surprised
[15:54] <Tm_T> why?
[15:54] <Riddell> Tm_T: so he can help test :)
[15:54] <_Groo_> its a life saver if you change your system a lot, like i do
[15:54] <Tm_T> Riddell: I mean why we would be pleasantly surprised (:
[15:55] <_Groo_> Tm_T: like i said above, i do a lot of testing/packaging in the graphics stack
[15:55] <_Groo_> i have a intel 4400 and an ati 8850m
[15:55] <_Groo_> complete open source stack
[15:55] <_Groo_> and guess what, its always in flux
[15:55] <Tm_T> _Groo_: I understand that you have found it working well for you (:
[15:56] <_Groo_> it would be a pain to test new builds without apt-btrfs-snapshot
[15:56] <Riddell> sgclark: I confirm the patch is needed in a pbuilder, spooky, so please send it upstream and ask upstream author if he knows why or to include the patch
[15:56] <Tm_T> ubottu: ~testers
[15:56] <Riddell> sgclark: shall i upload?
[15:56] <Tm_T> bah
[15:56] <alket> so no :'( , I use ubuntu since 2007 , look at ubuntuforums.org , and I also help test some build of games like Megaglest and Stuntrally
[15:56] <alket> but np
[15:57] <sgclark> Riddell: sure
[15:58] <Riddell> alket: wait hang on, he'll add you
[15:58] <Riddell> Tm_T: won't you?
[15:58] <Tm_T> !testers is <sed> /malarley/malarley, alket/
[15:59] <Tm_T> ubottu: no, !testers is <sed> /malarley/malarley, alket/
[15:59] <Riddell> that has got to be the most over-engineered UI ever :)
[16:00] <Tm_T> it should take sed happily, maybe it doesn't recognise me
[16:02] <Tm_T> !testers
[16:02] <Tm_T> happy? (:
[16:02] <alket> Tm_T: thank you very much :)
[16:03] <BluesKaj> Riddell, ok I'm here
[16:03] <_Groo_> !ninjas
[16:03] <_Groo_> bah, im not there anymore
[16:03] <_Groo_> although i still have access to kubuntu-ninjas :)
[16:04] <_Groo_> !babyninjas
[16:04] <_Groo_> ubottu: you should little bot, you should ;)
[16:04] <_Groo_> ubottu: more than apachelogger , cof cof
[16:04] <_Groo_> yes, im talking to a bot :P
[16:05] <sgclark> Riddell: since it is not consistant I filed this and included patch: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=337548
[16:05] <sgclark> Ummm, I am not a !ninja ?!?!
[16:08] <sgclark> TM_T Riddell I believe I should be a ninja.. :(
[16:13] <_Groo_> sgclark: back when i was helping a lot around here (or destroying, depends on the point of view) i was never a ninja, alhough i had access to a lot of stuff, officially i was apachelogger little bi*ch....
[16:13] <ScottK> I think that position is open.
[16:14] <_Groo_> ScottK: hi scott, yeah i plan to resume operations with you guys in the coming days.. i miss the long hours compiling/packaging stuff for no good reason :P
[16:14] <ScottK> Welcome back.
[16:14] <_Groo_> ScottK: tks tks
[16:15] <_Groo_> can someone point me to the todo list (ninja stuff) and documentation, i lost part of the stuff i had before, so i can resume the proper workflow without bugging you guys too much
[16:16] <Riddell> sgclark: totally
[16:16] <Riddell> Tm_T: can you add sgclark and _Groo_ to !ninjas ?
[16:17] <Riddell> sgclark: you probably want to explain what pbuilder is in that bug report, unless you package for debian system you won't know
[16:17] <Riddell> _Groo_: https://trello.com/kubuntu
[16:17] <Riddell> _Groo_: also KDE SC 4.13.3 and 4.14 beta need packaging
[16:18] <Riddell> we have scripts for those
[16:19] <_Groo_> Riddell: im using pbuilder, you guys still use the kde-scripts-whatever package with all the debian scripts for kde building?
[16:19] <_Groo_> or are you guys using something else?
[16:19] <Riddell> pkg-kde-tools we use
[16:20] <_Groo_> yeah, its what i use too
[16:20] <Riddell> we have kubuntu-automation to try and automate KDE SC packaging
[16:20] <Riddell> http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ also has useful lniks
[16:20] <_Groo_> is it in universe?
[16:20] <Riddell> no it's in bzr
[16:20] <_Groo_> ah ok, ill get it then
[16:20] <Riddell> http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ninjas-status/
[16:21] <_Groo_> k, i can help with 4.13.3 and 4.14
[16:21] <_Groo_> ill start this weekend
[16:22] <_Groo_> once i have the workflow going, i will be able to help all week, just give me a couple of days
[16:22] <_Groo_> im also taking a look at some orphan packages i did in the past and still are in universe/multiverse
[16:22] <_Groo_> like wally
[16:22] <_Groo_> that need some love
[16:23] <sgclark> Riddell: lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/about-distro ready
[16:23] <Riddell> you're on a roll!
[16:24] <sgclark> Riddell: I have to leave for about an hour, anything needs working on when I return?
[16:25] <Riddell> sgclark: well yeah the whole of 4.14 beta 2
[16:26] <Riddell> if you can work out the kubuntu-automation scripts
[16:27] <sgclark> Riddell: sure, sounds like a fun challenge
[16:28] <Riddell> so _Groo_ can take 4.13.3 if he wants to
[16:29] <_Groo_> Riddell: yeah, should be fun
[16:29] <_Groo_> i need to get acquainted with kubuntu-automation, i used to do one package at a time when i was helping before, it was like a whole weekend just to get it going
[16:29] <_Groo_> should be easier now
[16:32] <sgclark> Riddell: and this is for trusty?
[16:32] <Riddell> sgclark: 4.14 beta 2 is for utopic
[16:32] <sgclark> Riddell: ok
[16:32] <Riddell> with backports to trusty as a second step if time allows
[16:33] <sgclark> ok
[16:33] <Riddell> sgclark: you'll need to make sure kdesc-packages-utopic.txt is up to date
[16:33] <sgclark> np
[16:33] <Riddell> then run ./kubuntu-initial-upload as described in the README
[16:33] <Riddell> and check it's doing the right thing, adding new changelog entries, updating the build-depends versions etc
[16:34] <Riddell> then upload to PPA and update the cronjob on qa.kubuntu.co.uk for the new version
[16:34] <Riddell> although which PPA is a good question
[16:34] <Riddell> ninjas I suppose
[16:35] <Riddell> make sure it has enough space and doesn't have stuff in it to get in the way first
[16:37] <sgclark> Riddell: got everything but cron job
[16:37] <Riddell> oh and keep https://notes.kde.org/p/kubuntu-ninjas up to date
[16:39] <Riddell> sgclark: ssh into qa.kubuntu.co.uk, sudo -u kubuntu bash
[16:39] <Riddell> make utopic.conf in /home/kubuntu/kubuntu-automation/kubuntu-automation
[16:40] <Riddell> and add it to cron with crontab -e
[16:44] <Riddell> shadeslayer: rejected knotifications, I've updated bzr for copyright please review and re-upload
[16:50] <Riddell> shadeslayer: rejected knotifyconfig, I've updated bzr for copyright please review and re-upload
[16:51] <shadeslayer> ok, will do tomorrow
[16:56] <Riddell> shadeslayer: rejected kparts, I've updated bzr for copyright please review and re-upload
[16:56] <Riddell> shadeslayer: want e-mails or irc ok?
[16:57] <shadeslayer> irc is ok
[17:02] <Riddell> shadeslayer: rejected kservice, I've updated bzr for copyright please review and re-upload
[17:03] <shadeslayer> ok
[17:05] <kubotu> feed branches-next had 8 updates, showing the latest 6
[17:08] <Riddell> shadeslayer: rejected ktextwidgets, I've updated bzr for copyright please review and re-upload
[17:14] <sgclark> Riddell: kdesc-dev-latest would this be same as trusty or where would I find that?
[17:15]  * Riddell looks
[17:15] <Riddell> sgclark: what's the context?
[17:16] <Riddell> I think you'll also need lp:kubuntu-dev-tools
[17:16] <sgclark> http://paste.ubuntu.com/
[17:16] <Riddell> ah you talk of kdesc-dev-latest-utopic.txt ?
[17:17] <sgclark> right
[17:17] <Riddell> no changes there
[17:17] <sgclark> ok
[17:17] <Riddell> just use the kdesc-dev-latest-utopic.txt in kubuntu-automation
[17:23] <Riddell> shadeslayer: rejected kwallet-kf5,  I've updated bzr for copyright please review and re-upload
[17:35] <Riddell> shadeslayer: rejected kxmlgui, I've updated bzr for copyright please review and re-upload
[17:39] <Riddell> shadeslayer: rejected frameworkintegration, I've updated bzr for copyright please review and re-upload
[17:46] <sgclark> Riddell: ok looks like I have the script working :) I will review it before uploading anywhere. taking my hour break, will be back.
[17:46] <Riddell> sgclark: thanks :)
[18:19] <Riddell> sgclark: probably best to check, then upload kde4libs only then if that's all sane upload everything else
[18:19] <Riddell> that way you get a second check and everything else might compile (nothing will if kde4libs isn't updated first)
[18:19] <Riddell> shadeslayer: rejected kdeclarativev, I've updated bzr for copyright please review and re-upload
[18:19] <sgclark> Riddell: ok
[18:19] <sgclark> Riddell: seems to be stuck atm
[18:21] <sgclark> Riddell: don't suppose there is a continue? or similiar
[18:23] <Riddell> sgclark: the script is stuck?
[18:23] <Riddell> doing what?
[18:24] <sgclark> Riddell: yeah, it grabbed baloo-widgets modified and commited and now is just sitting there
[18:24] <Riddell> does ps -aux tell you what's running?
[18:25] <sgclark> in a chroot, can't do anything without stopping script (notes to & next time)
[18:30] <Riddell> you can stop the script
[18:30] <Riddell> and remove all entires in kdesc-packages-utopic.txt including the problem one and restart
[18:30] <Riddell> all entries up to the problem one
[18:30] <sgclark> ok thank you
[18:31]  * Riddell blogs https://blogs.kde.org/2014/07/17/barcelona-plasma-and-kde-frameworks-50-release-party
[18:31] <sgclark> I am so on the wrong side of the pond :(
[18:32] <Riddell> says the person going to oscon
[18:33] <sgclark> lol
[18:41] <Riddell> groovy, New queue all empty
[18:41] <Riddell> time to call it a day, New reviews are tiring
[18:52] <santa_> shadeslayer: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging-next/kauth/revision/42 the point of having plugins out of the lib* packages is not having conflicting library packages in case the soname changes
[18:53] <santa_> + not polluting the symbols file with symbols which can't be linked against
[19:06] <kubotu> feed branches had 22 updates, showing the latest 6
[19:31] <shadeslayer> santa_: sure, but the lib is useless without the plugin
[19:32] <shadeslayer> so sure, you can have the package installable
[19:32] <shadeslayer> but it won't work
[19:32] <shadeslayer> we discussed it here
[19:32] <shadeslayer> see logs
[19:34] <santa_> shadeslayer: fine, that can apply to any package having a -bin counterpart, when did you discussed this?
[19:36] <santa_> shadeslayer: also I discussed that issue too, and I suggested to add the dependency via the symbols file (like libkdecore5 and kde-runtime from kde 4) but I couldn't convince people yet of that approach so what is done now is just a recommends
[19:38] <santa_> in any case a library package should contain only the libs, it's not about "this stuff is not useful alone, therefore it shouldn't go in a separate package"
[19:46] <shadeslayer> santa_: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/07/14/%23kubuntu-devel.html#t11:13
[19:49] <santa_> shadeslayer: thanks. I still think separating it in a split package + recommends is better
[19:49] <santa_> and even better adding the dependency on -bin or -plugins or whatever via the symbols file
[20:07] <kubotu> feed branches had 16 updates, showing the latest 6
[20:40] <soee> homerun kicker in plasma5 has no icons at all :D
[20:44] <santa_> soee: create the .kde directory in your home
[20:44] <soee> santa_: it is by default created
[20:45] <santa_> soee: no it's not, do you already have it anyway?
[20:45] <_Groo_> soee: the new home for .kde now is .config i believe
[20:45] <_Groo_> no more .kde :(
[20:45] <soee> santa_: have it
[20:46] <soee> _Groo_: since plasma5 ?
[20:46] <santa_> _Groo_: sure, but there's an upstream issue which can be workarounded that way
[20:47] <soee> any way to fix the icons issue ?
[20:47] <santa_> soee: yes, since plasma5. about your issue if it's not the lack of ~/.kde dir I don't know what it could be
[20:48] <soee> :/
[20:48] <soee> santa_: thanks anyway
[20:49] <soee> hmmi have  had set Breeze icon theme
[20:49] <soee> \that might be the issue
[21:00] <_Groo_> soee: stupid question, but is the icon set installed?
[21:08] <soee> _Groo_: yes
[21:10] <sgclark> soee: plasma 5 has very few icons finished. You will more as more releases come out
[21:12] <soee> sgclark: i know, the problem was menu was completely missing icons soe the system settings
[21:13] <sgclark> soee: I had to make a new user (old settings messing something up)> not sure if that is your issue or not.
[21:13] <soee> will do some tests
[22:08] <kubotu> feed branches had 22 updates, showing the latest 6
[23:08] <kubotu> feed branches had 25 updates, showing the latest 6


[00:36] <nerdful1> greetings, working on a question.......
[00:38] <nerdful1> I unplugged my all-in-one mythbox from ethernet for awhile. When disconnected, I opened frontend to check on upcoming recordings...it complained that it could not connect to backend... So I reconnected, found no upcoming recordings scheduled. I rebooted, and found that it looked ok to record. But:
[00:39] <nerdful1> When I went to "recordings" to watch a show in process of recording, it said it could not find file. The busy circle was going in the menu, the backend status on mythweb said tuner is recording.
[00:41] <nerdful1> I can't find evidence of recordings being made, although it "thinks" it is doing the chores ok.  Database health all says ok, I rebooted again, no go, an also No Live TV. It sees tuner, but no signal shows.
[00:42] <nerdful1> Tuner is on the ethernet, it is a HDhomerun, so somehow things are corrupted, Help please, thanks.
[00:45] <nerdful1> HDhomerun is on ethernet on a reserved address on the router, so it didn't change, nor did the mythbuntu allinone box.
[01:08] <Shadow__X> nerdful1: it will not record if it is not connected to the network especially if the tuner is an hdhomerun
[01:08] <Shadow__X> :(
[01:38] <mycosys> nerdful1 get rid of networkmanager and set up ifup instead
[01:38] <mycosys> networkmanager = pain for servers
[01:39] <mycosys> you need to manually assign an ip address to the machine, so that it does not rely on dhcp to get one, so that if it boots without network, or IP is changed it will still work
[03:54] <nerdful1> mycosys: Thanks, found problem. Cable co changed all channel lineups that my HDhomerun is connected to. Coincidence that I disconnected lan, then later tuner was not apparently working. NO announcement from cable co about it. Also, I have the router reserving addresses for all my stuff.  Thanbks
[05:23] <trackstar> Hi all. Kind of a n00b question but I just hooked up my ubuntu pc to my new TV with an HDMI cable (from an on-board HDMI port) and am disappointed that it didn't automatically detect the new display. is there a trick to getting this to work?
[05:34] <Shadow__X> trackstar: try your graphics card config manager
[06:09] <somethinginteres> Anyone else having issues with Shepherd getting Aus EPG data?
[06:26] <mycosys> havent noticed any somethinginteres
[06:27] <somethinginteres> hmm OK thanks mycosys. the grabber runs apparently pulls down data but most of the channels aren't populated. It usually works just since the last batch of data got pulled down. WIll have to investigate further. Cheers
[06:28] <mycosys> just running it now to check
[06:28] <mycosys> try running with --notimetest from the console to see the output
[06:59] <somethinginteres> mycosys: OK will do
[07:11] <somethinginteres> mycosys: still seem to be getting the same error "Attempt 2 failed to fetch http://guides.news.com.au/television/profile/?action=saveProfile"
[07:11] <Zinn> [guides.news.com.au] Setup TV Channels | NEWS.com.au
[08:06] <mycosys> no error for me somethinginteres
[08:07] <mycosys> is it updating ok?
[08:08] <somethinginteres> mycosys: you mean updating the sources for grabbing the data or into the guide in mythtv?
[08:09] <mycosys> updating shepherd itself, the grabbers and prog
[08:10] <mycosys> try ./shepherd --update in ur .shepherd directory
[08:10] <mycosys> the guides change a lot, so it needs to update all the time
[08:10] <somethinginteres> mycosys: the sources all report "up to date" w/ no errors
[08:11] <mycosys> try disabling the news grabber then
[08:11] <somethinginteres> mycosys: hmm, how can I do that
[08:12] <somethinginteres> mycosys: I believe the grabber is "news v1.7"
[08:13] <mycosys> ./shepherd --disable news
[08:16] <somethinginteres> mycosys: done. Just doing a pastebin of output
[08:16] <somethinginteres> mycosys: http://paste.ubuntu.com/568642/
[08:16] <Zinn> [paste.ubuntu.com] Ubuntu Pastebin
[08:18] <mycosys> try running it with --notimetest and see what u get
[08:20] <somethinginteres> mycosys: running now
[08:30] <somethinginteres> mycosys: no errors reported
[08:38] <mycosys> :)
[08:38] <mycosys> dunno why news wasnt working for you
[08:38] <mycosys> enable it again in a week or 2 i would say
[08:51] <somethinginteres> mycosys: kk
[08:51] <somethinginteres> mycosys: thanks
[10:38] <hot_wheelz> can encoding a program for an ipod\iphone be done OTB with mytharchive in Mythbuntu?
[10:42] <mycosys> try mythencode hot_wheelz
[10:44] <mycosys> gah - mythexport
[10:44] <mycosys> is part of the distro
[10:44] <mycosys> http://www.mythbuntu.org/wiki/MythExport
[10:44] <Zinn> [www.mythbuntu.org] MythExport | Mythbuntu
[10:47] <hot_wheelz> yes of course - my bad thanks
[10:48] <hot_wheelz> so its builtin then
[10:48] <mycosys> its a plugin that is a standard part of mythbuntu
[10:49] <hot_wheelz> cool
[10:50] <mycosys> just go to [mythsevername]/mythexport
[10:50] <mycosys> in a web browser


[02:29] <somerville32> @schedule atlantic
[02:29] <somerville32> erm
[02:30] <ubotu> Schedule for Canada/Atlantic: 29 Nov 10:00: Desktop Team Development | 29 Nov 12:00: Community Council | 01 Dec 07:00: Kubuntu Developers | 01 Dec 15:00: Art Team | 04 Dec 12:00: Server Team meeting
[14:54] <poningru_> come help with release notes
[15:14] <BHSPitMonkey> ... everybody?
[15:57] <poningru_> BHSPitMonkey, yes
[16:50] <TopAgent> hello everyone... Can someone advise me as to what program that I can use in ubuntu to track clients and the buy sell transaction that would be a similar program to the "top Agent" in the Windows platform... I have recently converted to linux and really like it but other than Openoffice I need something geared a little more towards the real estate industry... Any Help would be appreciated
[16:52] <somerville32> TopAgent, I can't see anything in the repository
[16:53] <TopAgent> Well I appreciate you at least looking\
[16:53] <somerville32> However, I see somethign on gogole
[16:53] <somerville32> ugh
[16:53] <somerville32> *something on google
[16:53] <TopAgent> what?
[16:53] <somerville32> http://mtechit.com/linux-biz/realestate_and_construction/ <-- List of companies using Linux in Realestate and construction
[16:54] <somerville32> http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Information-Management/Real-Estate-Management-Software-2900.shtml <-- Real estate management software for Linux
[16:54] <TopAgent> well it's something... maybe I can catch a lead from them... thx for the help
[16:54] <somerville32> The second one is a web-based solution
[16:55] <somerville32> "Real Estate Management Software is the perfect real estate management solution for real estate professionals.
[16:55] <somerville32> Get all your listings on the web with free, easy to use web-based real estate management software.
[16:55] <somerville32> Create your areas, school districts and property types and even upload images. Full featured searching available. 100% free license. Uses PHP and MySQL."
[16:56] <TopAgent> Now thats what I call help.. Thx a bunch!
[16:56] <somerville32> Also, an article of interest here: http://www.linux.com/articles/19224
[16:56] <somerville32> TopAgent, See #ubuntu-server for help setting that software up. If it works well for you, let me know and I'll package it so other people can download it like normal :)
[16:57] <TopAgent> really cool, but being new to the os I am not exactly sure how to get it up and running....
[16:57] <TopAgent> what is the software name and where can I download it
[16:58] <TopAgent> I will be spending some time going through what you have given me...
[16:59] <TopAgent> What do I need to do for ?? PHP ?? and MySQL??  remember I am an agent.. Unfortunately not a linux hacker/
[16:59] <somerville32> TopAgent, :)
[16:59] <TopAgent> :)
[16:59] <TopAgent> But I can sell ya a house hahaha
[16:59] <somerville32> TopAgent, :D
[16:59] <somerville32> TopAgent, Are you an independent?
[17:00] <TopAgent> will soon be, going on the last leg of my Broker training
[17:01] <TopAgent> If I ever figure out how to use this stuff, How can I contact you with a review?
[17:01] <somerville32><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:02] <somerville32> I also hang out on here all the time.
[17:02] <somerville32> If you have any trouble at all, please feel free to contact me.
[17:02] <somerville32> I'd be happy to assist you anyway I can.
[17:02] <TopAgent> thx
[17:02] <somerville32> also, I'd check out #ubuntu - lots of great people in there looking to help other users.
[17:02] <TopAgent> i use the KDE version and they tell me to go to another page
[17:03] <TopAgent> but thx and i have some homework to do now... Bye
[17:24] <MenZa> jenda
[17:24] <MenZa> please tell me you're here
[17:33] <Burgundavia> MenZa: haven't seen jenda in a long while
[17:34] <MenZa> I've seen him pop in every now and then
[17:45] <Spec> so this channel is designed to help coordinate evangalism via our LoCo cells?
[17:45] <MenZa> No.
[17:45] <MenZa> It's designed to coordina-WORLD DOMINATION
[17:45] <Spec> or is it just UWN?
[17:45] <MenZa> :P
[17:46] <Spec> I'm particularly interested in defeating bug #1 in the realms of k12 edu
[17:46] <Spec> it's cool though, google's helping. they just announced a new high-school-programmers-thingy for open source.
[17:46] <MenZa> awesome
[17:46] <MenZa> meh
[17:46]  * MenZa must dash
[17:46] <MenZa> I have ANOTHER meeting now
[17:46] <MenZa> jebus
[17:46] <Spec> I think since it's based on pre-college/highschool, they're focusing on bug fixing/tracking/reporting/etc
[17:47] <Spec> so perhaps we can get more people working to squash bugs via google.
[23:25] <K_Dallas> Good evening folks!
[23:26] <K_Dallas> I have chosen Ubuntu to present as a company with successful marketing strategies for an mba class of mine
[23:26] <Burgundavia> hello
[23:26] <K_Dallas> I have been using Linux (as a simple user) for many years and been using Ubuntu for quite a while
[23:27] <K_Dallas> I am trying to find some information about your strategies, segmentation, targeting, positioning sort of thing
[23:27] <K_Dallas> both qualitative and quantitative
[23:27] <Burgundavia> right
[23:27] <Burgundavia> well, from the perspectivie of the community side, we pretty much don't do any of that
[23:27] <K_Dallas> I would greatly appreciate if you lead me to the right direction and information
[23:27] <Burgundavia> we are all bottom up, grassroots driven
[23:28] <K_Dallas> i understand
[23:28] <Burgundavia> basically, we provide a great OS and people just use it
[23:28] <Burgundavia> and then they talk about it
[23:28] <Burgundavia> there are a few concerted efforts done by various groups
[23:28] <K_Dallas> true but you have chosen to make the installation way different and easier, to make it work better with the majority of components
[23:28] <Burgundavia> and some of our development actually creates "market segmentation"
[23:29] <Burgundavia> right, exactly
[23:29] <K_Dallas> i used to use debian but each time i had to configure my display, mouse, etc
[23:29] <Burgundavia> but in terms of marketing as a specific entity, we do a few things different from other Linuxes
[23:29] <K_Dallas> but ubuntu does it right out of box and that is maybe not that important to gurus but for someone with limited knowledge or time, it means a lot
[23:29] <Burgundavia> we have fairly good release notes, graphically done
[23:30] <K_Dallas> i see
[23:30] <Burgundavia> I would say that Ubuntu is a case in "unmarketing"
[23:30] <K_Dallas> lol that is not good for me ;)
[23:30] <Burgundavia> no, it is quite interesting
[23:31] <K_Dallas> i have convinced my prof that it is otherwise
[23:31] <Burgundavia> especially for MBA types, no offence
[23:31] <K_Dallas> well, please elaborate
[23:31] <Burgundavia> basically, open source orgs/companies spend almost nothing on advertising or marketing
[23:31] <Burgundavia> that includes time by volunteers
[23:32] <Burgundavia> they do a fair amount of passive marketing (producing collateral) but little active stuff
[23:32] <Burgundavia> given the nature of the software (free to get), you instantly get people playing with it and they create your buzz for you
[23:32] <Burgundavia> I do have one lesson about marketing
[23:32] <K_Dallas> but the fact that you have focused in ease-of-use and desktop users, isnt it targeting special segments of active population
[23:32] <Burgundavia> basically, Ubuntu decloaked and had a working product already
[23:32]  * K_Dallas all ears
[23:33] <Burgundavia> so that initial "oh, interesting" turned into users
[23:33] <Burgundavia> if you announce and then have the release days|weeks|months|years later, you lose those initial people
[23:33] <Burgundavia> but you need a solid product at the time as well
[23:33] <Burgundavia> which comes to my second point about what Ubuntu does well: get good people
[23:34] <Burgundavia> from the very getgo Mark has hired excellent people, communicative talky people who can also develop well
[23:34] <Burgundavia> this has built a community of similar and like minded people
[23:34] <K_Dallas> i see
[23:34] <Burgundavia> bound together by strong social institutions such as the CC and the CoC
[23:35] <K_Dallas> CC ?
[23:35] <Burgundavia> community council and code of conduct
[23:35] <K_Dallas> oh
[23:35] <Burgundavia> basically, it is a classic case of "if you built it, they will come'
[23:35] <Burgundavia> and "if you keep them happy, they will stay"
[23:36] <K_Dallas> true but have you been successful in converting windows users into ubuntu users?
[23:36] <Burgundavia> which boils down to the fact that marketing can rarely really be stripped away from development, community building, etc.
[23:36] <Burgundavia> I would assume so
[23:36] <K_Dallas> any data, survey ?
[23:36] <Burgundavia> distros in general have been fairly successful recently, mostly due to better tech
[23:36] <Burgundavia> the recent linux foundation one is pretty crappy data, but it might have
[23:37] <Burgundavia> afaik, nobody has done any formal marketing studies, or at least that are released publicly
[23:37] <K_Dallas> true but i am just wondering if the number of users has grown considerably?
[23:37] <K_Dallas> i see
[23:37] <Burgundavia> now, Canonical has their own marketing department that does a lot of the traditional things
[23:37] <Burgundavia> advertising, case studies, etc.
[23:37] <K_Dallas> anything for ubuntu?
[23:37] <K_Dallas> or it is just shipit
[23:37] <Burgundavia> all of that is for ubuntu
[23:38] <K_Dallas> oh
[23:38] <Burgundavia> canonical is the corporate sponsor of most of Ubuntu development
[23:38] <K_Dallas> true
[23:38] <Burgundavia> but then again, the biggest thing they have done is foster the community around Ubuntu, via building that initial social framework I mentioned and then keeping it strong with lots of resources
[23:38] <K_Dallas> that would be actually interesting to show the canonical CEO as an astronaut and humanitarian
[23:39] <Burgundavia> one of those resources is the ShipIT program, which is a form of marketing
[23:39] <K_Dallas> i am actually very happy with that program as i have seen people from all around the world using it
[23:39] <Burgundavia> yes
[23:39] <Burgundavia> all about getting ubuntu into people's hands
[23:39] <Burgundavia> there is no better marketing than word of mouth
[23:40] <K_Dallas> and i would add actually getting to experience it
[23:40] <Burgundavia> that is part of getting it into people's hands, but yes
[23:40] <K_Dallas> I am going to install it on my laptop tonight and do all the presentation with OOo and on Ubuntu and yet say nothing about that until the end of the presentation
[23:40] <Burgundavia> so for your prof, here is what I would say:
[23:42] <Burgundavia> "ubuntu has had success in marketing via ignoring most of the 'conventional' rules. By giving the product away for free and shipping it for free to anywhere int eh world, Ubuntu has built a huge user base which provides developers and acrtive users, both of whom talk about Ubuntu, thus marketing via word fo mouth"
[23:42] <Burgundavia> "To help build the community, Canonical was very saavy in providing resources and building a social structure, allowing those contributors to feel valued"
[23:43] <Burgundavia> "Development has provided much of the market segmentation via focusing on ease of use, something previous Linux distributions have often failed at"
[23:43] <K_Dallas> are they being paid?
[23:43] <Burgundavia> "and finally, at launch, the product was good enough to use day to day, leading to instant adoption
[23:43] <Burgundavia> "
[23:43] <Burgundavia> and yes, Canonical is a company with paid developers
[23:43] <K_Dallas> excellent
[23:43] <Burgundavia> the distro team within Canonical is about 30 or so right now
[23:44] <K_Dallas> I see
[23:44] <K_Dallas> do you by any chance target certain governmental institute, such as switzerland, or German army, or australia (sydney mayor), ... at all?
[23:45] <Burgundavia> having that core team paid allowed development to progress quickly
[23:45] <Burgundavia> Canonical might "target" people, but I highly doubt it
[23:45] <Burgundavia> I suspect that they are swamped merely with incoming leads
[23:45] <K_Dallas> such as?
[23:46] <Burgundavia> they have never released any numbers or name
[23:46] <Burgundavia> names, rather
[23:46] <Burgundavia> well, no quite
[23:46] <Burgundavia> if people self identify, that gets out
[23:47] <Burgundavia> but most businesses are very publicity-adverse, especially when it comes to their infrastructure
[23:49] <K_Dallas> i was also talking to my teammates about the availability of kbuntu, xubuntu, edubuntu, et
[23:49] <Burgundavia> right, of those, the two most interesting are Edubuntu and Ubuntu Server
[23:49] <K_Dallas> even though it is really not hard to convert from one to another, has it played an important part in attracting more
[23:49] <somerville32> Burgundavia, :/
[23:49] <K_Dallas> we all know that people have a love-affair with their desktop ;)
[23:50] <Burgundavia> somerville32: sorry, but it is true, but the perspective of an outsider
[23:50] <Burgundavia> K_Dallas: that is a very very very small vocal minority
[23:50] <K_Dallas> ok
[23:50] <Burgundavia> most people couldn't care less about their computer
[23:50] <Burgundavia> it is a thing, it does stuff
[23:51] <K_Dallas> are the other flavors of ubuntu all supported by canonical as well?
[23:51] <Burgundavia> that is the biggest challenge and that is one that Ubuntu has done very well at meeting
[23:51] <Burgundavia> some are yes
[23:51] <Burgundavia> Edubuntu, Server and Kubuntu are all supported
[23:51] <K_Dallas> good
[23:51] <Burgundavia> to most people, a computer is just a glorified toaster
[23:51] <Burgundavia> toasters do not get "viruses"
[23:52] <Burgundavia> and buying a new one is really not that exciting
[23:52] <K_Dallas> what about the language support
[23:52] <Burgundavia> it therefor follows that most people could care less about what OS is on a compouter
[23:52] <K_Dallas> is ubuntu the distro with the most number of language supported
[23:52] <Burgundavia> language support is key, as a lot of people need non-English
[23:52] <Burgundavia> possibly
[23:52] <K_Dallas> i see
[23:52] <Burgundavia> we do make translation easy via Rosetta
[23:52] <K_Dallas> oh!
[23:53] <K_Dallas> I once tried to help debian with their new gui installer and my mother tongue but it didnt go well, there not much of encouraging there
[23:53] <Burgundavia> what is your native tongue?
[23:53] <K_Dallas> Persian
[23:53] <Burgundavia> ahh
[23:53] <Burgundavia> yes, RTL is fun
[23:54] <K_Dallas> lol i know
[23:54] <Burgundavia> lots of assumptions get broken with RTL
[23:54] <Burgundavia> I have a passing knowledge of arabic
[23:54] <K_Dallas> but i wasnt helping them with the technical problems, mainly with the translation as what they had was terrible
[23:54] <Burgundavia> translation quality is a fairly major issue, one that is not completely solved
[23:54] <Burgundavia> it is part a social and part a technical problem
[23:55] <K_Dallas> i know a lot of people from iran who have done excellent jobs in the opensource community wrt Persian and RTL
[23:55] <Burgundavia> basically, the technology should empower people to do the right thing socially
[23:55] <K_Dallas> true
[23:55] <Burgundavia> currently it doesn't really
[23:56] <K_Dallas> so if we talk advertising, except for shipit, is there any other activities going on in this domain?
[23:56] <K_Dallas> or it is as you said word of the mouth kind of advertising
[23:56] <Burgundavia> Canonical has done a little bit
[23:57] <Burgundavia> a billboard on the freeway in Cali right opposite Oracle (although they have never admitted to that ad)
[23:57] <Burgundavia> and recent server ads
[23:57] <K_Dallas> i see. we studied a company in one of the latin american countires which used ordinary women as its ad agent and its seeling agents
[23:57] <Burgundavia> those can be seen on the -marketing list
[23:57] <K_Dallas> i see
[23:57] <Burgundavia> the average person is actually a very compelling advertising/marketing "vechile"
[23:58] <K_Dallas> any picture from that, by any chance?
[23:58] <K_Dallas> amazingly, true
[23:58] <Burgundavia> the marketing list has links to both of them
[23:58] <Burgundavia> lists.ubuntu.com
[23:59] <K_Dallas> thanks