[01:39] <n2diy> I've lost sound, I checked that nothing is muted, and the speakers work on my test box. My user.log show pulse audio calling and alsa module, which fails because it can't find  a profile.
[04:59] <ian_> my wireless keeps randomly disconnecting, and won't reconnect once it happens
[05:00] <ian_> xubuntu 11.10 and Realtek RTL8191SE wireless on my laptop
[05:01] <daysahead5> hmmm
[05:01] <daysahead5> i don't seem to have that problem i run 11.10
[05:02] <daysahead5> are you out of wireless range?
[05:02] <daysahead5> maybe having issues with the wireless driver?
[05:05] <ian_> not the range, possibly the driver, i'm not sure
[05:06] <ian_> it works most of the time, but just randomly disconnects and won't reconnect unless i reboot
[08:58] <Kingsy> guys.. got a WEIRD issue.. when I get to the login screen there is console characters making small holes in the top left corner of the screen..  then you type a username and password no matter what it is.. the screen goes blank and then the login screen reappears in which you can login as normal... wtf is that all about?
[09:00] <Kingsy> it has happened on both pc's I have installed xubuntu on
[09:00] <Kingsy> cant find anything on google.. I guess thats cos the fault is so difficult to describe
[09:32] <spim> Hi.
[09:33] <n2diy> I've been working on getting message notification sounds working, I have Thunderbird working, can someone send me a message here with my nick, to test xchat?
[09:33] <n2diy> spim, hi
[09:37] <baizon> n2diy
[09:37] <n2diy> baizon, thanks, didn't work.
[09:37] <baizon> :)
[09:59] <Promethes> hi, i am trying to enable compiz in xubuntu 11.04 - when i do "compiz --replace" i get window decorations from gnome, not from xfce. It is normal? How to use xfce window decorations while using compiz
[09:59] <Promethes> ?
[10:38] <robro003> I installed gnash and then decided I didn't want it, so I uninstalled but now thuner displays .swf files with the gnash icon for them, but pcmanfm displays the normal flash icon. i'm using xubuntu 11.04
[11:08] <robro003> I installed gnash and then decided I didn't want it, so I uninstalled but now thunar displays .swf files with the gnash icon for them, but pcmanfm displays the normal flash icon. i'm using xubuntu 11.04
[11:36] <cYmen> There is something wrong with the keyboard layout switche, who do I contact about this?
[11:37] <TheSheep> !bugs
[11:38] <cYmen> Can somebody help me confirm it first?
[11:39] <cYmen> Great now I can't reproduce it myself.
[11:39] <cYmen> >_<
[11:41] <cYmen> hm...seems like it doesn't affect all applications
[12:30] <cryptopuzzle> Hello. I have an issue with the Mail Monitoring plugin from the main panel. it worked for a few moments checking my mail on gmail. but now it has a stopsign on the icon, and refreshing doesnt make it go away. any idea? check interval is set to 10 min on 2 different accounts (both gmail)
[13:42] <jnsl_> strange thing, im using the AWN dock, whenever i open the program jdownloader, it opens in the netbeans program launcher!
[15:52] <c_smith> hello, is it possible to set up a wallpaper slideshow in Xubuntu 11.10? if so, how would I go about doing so?
[15:56] <c_smith> nobody knows?
[15:57] <c_smith> guess not, well, guess I'll come back when there might be someone who knows on.
[16:03] <autif> c_smith - Ubuntu recommends F-spot or shotwell - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Photos/Slideshows
[18:03] <rhodes69> Please help.  I have Xubuntu 11.10 running on a Compaq Presario F700.  I am unable to fully shut down the machine.  I've tried "sudo halt" And have used the GUI.  Machine starts to shut down then freezes with the Xubuntu splash screen not changing.  TIA
[18:09] <holstein> rhodes69: next time try the command.... sudo shutdown -h now
[18:09] <rhodes69> Hello?  Anyone there?
[18:11] <GridCube> nope
[18:12] <rhodes69> Thanks H.  Can the machine turned off using GUI?  I've installed Xubuntu for my brother-in-law who is _not_ very tech savvy.
[18:12] <GridCube> rhodes69, did you tried what holstein told you?
[18:12] <GridCube> it should shut down
[18:13] <GridCube> in any case you can script that shutdown -h now and add a launcher for that
[18:13] <rhodes69> Actually I'm using that machine now. will comeback to IRC after I try.
[18:27] <Myrtti> rhodes69: so?
[18:29] <rhodes69> Holsteins suggestion worked.  Thanks.  Now I need to  RTFM to learn how to set up a launcher for a script!
[18:33] <rhodes69> Bye for now
[22:19] <nate_> ok plain and simple question for anyone out there: why cant i install apps from the Ubuntu Software Center it keep giving me depency errors that i can t seem to push past
[22:44] <jakeH> Hi, I am a newby at Linux, been working in it for a few weeks now but I keep getting the idea I am missing something. When I am reading online documentation about command line actions it almost never includes "sudo". When I try them out on my own command line I always get permission denied ... I understand that's because I need to be a super user apparently to complete these actions, but now my question is: why is it that online guide
[22:45] <jakeH> the sudo part that is? I was under the impression that it was ill advised to log in to your super user account, and you should use sudo instead to gain temporary priviliges to complete the action you want to do
[22:47] <c_smith> Hello, is there a way to have a set of wallpapers run as a slideshow as backgrounds like Wallch can do?
[22:47] <c_smith> also, is Wallch compatible with XFCE?
[22:48] <c_smith> jakeH, sudo just grants you superuser permissions for that command and a short time after.
[23:40] <jwfoxjr> I'm trying to configure my Dell BT Keyboard with Xubuntu. It is asking me for a pairing code. When I use just vanilla Ubuntu it shows the pair code on the screen.
[23:41] <jwfoxjr> Is there anything that I can do get this paired with Xubuntu?
[23:59] <holstein> jwfoxjr: the pairing code will be for that device... is there a place to enter it?


[08:18]  * thorwil wonders what to think of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Flowers
[08:20] <knome> suggest it as the new logo of ubutnu for mark
[08:20]  * knome hides
[08:26] <thorwil> kwwii: http://www.flickr.com/groups/ubuntu/discuss/72157617257225731/
[08:28] <thorwil> what the hell is the point of an additional ubuntu users group? http://www.flickr.com/groups/590097@N22/pool/
[08:28] <thorwil> people are strange
[08:30] <thorwil> we have a Lord_Darth_Vader in the Community pool! http://www.flickr.com/photos/lord_darth_vader/1520509199/in/pool-ubuntu
[08:30] <thorwil> i would have thought he's a pure windows user
[08:45] <knittl> hi. i've been watching the breathe icon set bzr branch now quite a while and want to try it out
[08:45] <knittl> how can i install the icons? moving to /usr/share/icons/Breathe doesn't help
[08:46] <knittl> ah no. it did. only had to close the appearance dialog
[08:46] <knittl> sry for the fuss
[08:54] <thorwil> SiDi: translation, please
[09:02] <SiDi> thorwil: ballmer says "join the obscure side of the force"
[09:02] <SiDi> and novell answers "it already began and i bite my fin for it"
[09:06] <thorwil> hrmpf :)
[09:10] <thorwil> bbl
[12:56] <kwwii> wow, http://www.flickr.com/groups/ubuntu-artwork/ already has 35 members :)
[12:57] <knome> should i join? ;)
[12:57] <ruslanr> that's good :)
[12:57] <kwwii> everyone should join and everyone should upload amazing photos :)
[12:57] <knome> well, i'm not that active at flickr
[12:57] <knome> that's why i'm wondering
[12:58] <knome> well, i joined.
[12:59] <kwwii> ;)
[12:59] <kwwii> I have sucked you into the world of flickr
[12:59] <knome> nah
[13:00] <knome> my photos consist 60% of my desktop-shots
[13:00] <knome> IRL-desktop
[13:07] <kwwii> hehe
[13:07] <knome> i think i have to takeone for this year
[13:25] <knome> kwwii, http://www.flickr.com/photos/emunkki/3707110680/
[13:25] <knome> i apologize the *BAD* quality
[13:26] <knome> ruslanr, please do not *notice* :)
[13:26] <ruslanr> ok
[13:26] <ruslanr> sorry
[13:27] <knome> no problem
[13:27] <knome> i nearly missed it ;)
[13:28] <knome> and thanks btw ;)
[13:28] <knome> these are quite nice
[13:32] <kwwii> hehe, cool
[13:37] <SiDi> knome: your desktop lacks a sidi
[13:37] <SiDi> to use all this hardware
[13:40] <kwwii> btw, there is an update to the icon theme, gtk theme and metacity theme as well as a the humanity icons in my ppa
[13:41] <knome> SiDi, hah
[13:43] <SiDi> kwwii: mind giving me the PPA please ?
[13:43] <SiDi> and i didnt know about the gtk / metacity :o
[13:43] <SiDi> do you have screenshots too ? :d
[13:44] <kwwii> they look much the same (the human gtk is the only thing that really looks a bit different
[13:45] <kwwii> https://launchpad.net/~kwwii/+archive/ppa
[13:49] <SiDi> for me the thing that needs a big refresh is the metacity :/
[13:49] <SiDi> err any reason why your PPA isn't available for jaunty kwwii ? :|
[13:51] <kwwii> SiDi: no, that seems really funky to me
[13:51] <michote> macrvr: Hi, the smileys look a bit inconsist in small res http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1429945/Bildschirmfoto-L%C3%A4cheln%21.png shall we fix this for 0.5?
[13:52] <michote> macrvr: I just fixed angry and smirk eye-size, maybe I should increase the eye-lines of tired and angel, too
[13:53] <michote> macrvr: mouth of sad and plain lokk a bit bold to me
[13:54] <michote> macrvr: ^look
[14:03] <macvr> michote: if i had changed the sad mouth to look like the inverted smile , it looked like a moustache
[14:04] <macvr> michote: plain looks looks ok, it only "looks" odd because u have it placed next to tired
[14:05] <kwwii> just updating all of my packages in the ppa for jaunty as well
[14:06] <macvr> kwwii: are you updating breathe as well?
[14:06] <macvr> in your ppa?
[14:06] <kwwii> macvr: breathe is not in my ppa
[14:07] <macvr> ah... ok.  juast asked since you said something about it earlier
[14:07] <macvr> just^
[14:08] <michote> macrvr: ;) maybee use brown like crying in sad, I think a 2px-line is too bold in 24x24 (it's the same as 48x48), but just my 2 cents
[14:08] <macvr> michote: i tired that, but it didnt look sad enough ;p
[14:08] <macvr> hence i kept it a bit darker
[14:09] <macvr> michote: do one thing , move the sad , plain to top row
[14:09] <kwwii> lol http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10282578-16.html
[14:10] <macvr> hahahahahah lmao
[14:10] <ruslanr> :p
[14:14] <kwwii> SiDi: ok, jaunty packages are now available
[14:15] <michote> macvr: http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1429945/Bildschirmfoto-L%C3%A4cheln%21.png , then I'll change tired to a 2px mouth, too. I'll edit it's eyes anyway
[14:16] <macvr> michote: the tired looks fine , dont change
[14:16] <macvr> the mouth
[14:18] <macvr> michote: for sleepy the mouth looks fine in tired
[14:18] <michote> macvr: ok do you think the eyes look better now in the smaller sizes or is it too much? http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1429945/face-tired.png
[14:20] <macvr> michote: try like the face-kiss
[14:21] <macvr> michote: in face-kiss i had done the the eyes as just the gradient of yellow than white
[14:28] <michote> macvr: in 24 and 16 you didn't use gradient anymore in kiss
[14:29] <macvr> michote: it was not need for that smiley ;p you can use it in tired
[14:29] <macvr> needed^
[14:39] <macvr> Anyone knows how to fix this > Dust/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:369: Murrine configuration option "style" is not supported and will be ignored.
[14:40] <macvr> what is the new options now?
[14:42] <michote> macvr: ok I removed it in 16px, shal I send the fixes to cory directly?
[14:42] <macvr> what fixes?
[14:43] <macvr> i thought you were doing it for some pidgin thing
[14:49] <michote> macvr: I just saw the inconsistence doing this pidgin-theme, don't you think this should be in Breathe as well?
[14:50] <macvr> michote: you can send it, i wasnt sure of the eyes when you uploaded it , but Cory accepted it... so not sure which he likes... send it anyway
[14:52] <michote> macvr: ok, I only changed eyes in 24 and 16px anyway :P
[15:09] <macvr>  Anyone knows how to fix this >>> Dust/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:369: Murrine configuration option "style" is not supported and will be ignored. <<< what are the new options now?
[15:10] <macvr> dashua_: ^ ?
[15:19] <zniavre> engine?
[15:23] <macvr> zniavre: it is from the dust/dust sand theme... i'm not sure of the engine
[15:24] <macvr> zniavre: clearlooks
[15:25] <kwwii> it means that the style option is being changed or removed
[15:25] <kwwii> is being -> has been
[15:25] <macvr> kwwii: yup.. but what is the new option avail
[15:25] <kwwii> it means that the maintainer of Dust should get a bug and then talk to Cimi or someone about it
[15:25] <zniavre> do not know clearlooks sorry
[15:26] <kwwii> maybe they changed it to profile
[15:26] <SiDi> I just gave a little kitten up :(
[15:26] <kwwii> or removed it altogether
[15:26] <macvr> zniavre: np
[15:26] <knome> kwwii, removed the kitten?
[15:26] <kwwii> the same kind of option in murrine was called profile but it was deprecated about 6 months ago
[15:26] <kwwii> :p
[15:27] <macvr> kwwii: so changing style > profile should fix this?
[15:27] <macvr> ah no!
[15:30] <kwwii> no
[15:31] <kwwii> removing it will get rid of the problem but also change the style a bit I guess
[15:31] <kwwii> it depends if it is deprecated or already removed
[15:31] <kwwii> from the error I imagine you could remove it without any problem
[15:35] <macvr> kwwii: found this bug > Bug #348918
[15:36] <macvr> but the style hasnt yet been fixed
[15:36] <macvr> i'll see if it can be removed
[15:39] <macvr> kwwii: this is the only place where murrine engine specifies style> engine "murrine"
[15:39] <macvr> 	{
[15:39] <macvr> 		style	= NODOKA
[15:39] <macvr> 	}
[15:40] <macvr> i'm stumped... how do i change it?
[16:00] <kwwii> macvr: well, the murrine engine is different than clearlooks anyway
[16:03] <kwwii> my guess is that they split up the options which made it "gummy" into several other style properties
[16:03] <kwwii> so that one can mix and match between all the style properties instead of just having a few presets
[16:08]  * macvr keeps looking
[17:04] <macvr> fixed it...! had to replace style with roundedness/highlight_shade
[17:09] <thorwil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Archives now includes a link to Dustink Kirkland's ubuntu museum
[17:46] <zniavre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Archives/5.04  my first linux/ubuntu try, never changed to another OS
[19:16] <macvr> SiDi: you were asking for a bug more than 32 duplicates... found 1 > Bug #72018
[19:17] <macvr> 205 dups!
[19:17] <macvr> SiDi: try beating that [205]  ;p
[19:41] <psyke83> kwwii: hey man. I just saw your message re: the packages in your PPA. I'm running Karmic, and it seems that human-theme needs a version bump. See:  http://pastebin.com/m6b268d87
[19:46] <SiDi> macvr: i just filed bug #666
[19:46] <SiDi> Macvr is boring !
[19:47] <SiDi> (no offense ;) )
[19:48] <macvr> SiDi: ??? what does 666 have to do with me!
[20:41] <dashua> macvr: Try this package.  I updated to 0.4.  Redux will only work with nodoka from git.    May have to backport to murrine =/
[20:41] <dashua> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Human-Redux?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=gnome-themes-ubuntu_0.4_all.deb
[20:42] <dashua> Clearlooks is gone in Dust
[20:44] <macvr> dashua: actually, i realized the prob was with murrine...  "style = NODOKA" , so i replaced it with roundness , now i dont get error
[20:45] <macvr> dashua: but using backports for the theme, might not be good , since the users wont be aware of the prob
[20:45] <dashua> I didn't think Dust used the nodoka engine
[20:45] <dashua> 0.4 is all murrine
[20:46] <macvr> oh... checking the gtkrc ... :)
[20:46] <SiDi> but therehas been a full nodoka version afaik
[20:46] <SiDi> but officious
[20:47] <dashua> Yeah, I made that one.  Not an official release though.
[20:48] <dashua> macvr: Can you send me the gtkrc or pastebin it?
[20:49] <macvr> dashua: of  dust?
[20:49] <dashua> The one you were having issues with?
[20:50] <macvr> ok..
[20:52] <macvr> dashua: http://filebin.ca/gmybe/gtkrc
[20:57] <dashua> macvr: http://launchpad.net/dusttheme/0.4/0.4.0/+download/Dust-0.4.tar.gz
[20:57] <dashua> I would use this version
[20:58] <macvr> ah... i had started editing this long time ago... only today i got fed up of the error :)
[20:58] <dashua> There a few murrine options in the original dust and style was deprecated to use profile
[20:58] <macvr> but thanx for the latest version
[20:59] <dashua> Send me the whole theme if you want it fixed if not just hack on that newer version
[21:00] <dashua> Humanity icon theme is a nice inheritance for Breathe, but not nearly as good.  More complete though.
[21:01] <macvr> yeah i like the humanity icons
[21:01] <dashua> Better than Breathe?
[21:01] <dashua> =/
[21:02] <macvr> ;p ... i'm not a fan of orange folders
[21:03] <dashua> Oh, both are orange.  One is just darker.
[21:04] <macvr> yeah...
[21:04] <macvr> dashua: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=103651 this was my old version
[21:04] <macvr> dashua: http://filebin.ca/tzwqeb/VDustSand.tar.gz
[21:04] <dashua> Ah ok
[21:04] <macvr> ^ my present version , i'm editing
[21:06] <macvr> dashua: I'm trying to get the top highlight like the DarkRoom one... But thinner. I'v done a crude hack , using window width... wasnt sure how Darkroom does it :(
[21:09] <dashua> I'll take a look into it.
[21:09] <dashua> Ah, Impression buttons.
[21:09] <dashua> They are nice.
[21:09] <macvr> ;p
[21:09] <macvr> I'v edited the colors
[21:10] <macvr> still redundant buttons are there in the folders,
[21:10] <dashua> macvr: I think I'm going blind temporarily using a blue theme ;p
[21:11] <macvr> which blue?
[21:11] <dashua> This blue is actually a nice shade
[21:11] <dashua> VDust
[21:12] <macvr> the select is only blue , rest is grey
[21:13] <dashua> Yeah
[21:13] <SiDi> macvr: friendship request!
[21:13] <macvr> any idea which lines dark room uses for the top highlight? there were too many and i got tired
[21:13] <macvr> SiDi: ??? you are totally confusing me today ???
[21:17]  * macvr glad lp is silent today...  there were too many new papercuts
[21:18]  * SiDi misses some purrs in the background
[21:20] <dashua> macvr: try round_bevel
[21:20] <macvr> for?
[21:21] <dashua> You want to get rid the top line?
[21:22] <dashua> That is where it is in darkroom
[21:22] <macvr> i want the top line
[21:22] <macvr> but the way i have done it is using the x=witdth -
[21:22] <dashua> oh
[21:22] <dashua> I'll add it for you
[21:22] <macvr> which messes up for very small windows
[21:23] <macvr> thanx
[21:26] <macvr> dashua: only for the normal small windows the theme has problems, the maximized window works well
[21:26] <macvr> also round_bevel was for progress bars?
[21:33] <dashua> They are handled by clearlooks
[21:34] <macvr> yeah , i changed them today to clearlooks
[21:35] <dashua> kwwii: Will Human-Clearlooks be deprecated in Karmic or is it staying in the human-theme package?
[21:35] <dashua> macvr: I'll have to work on this.
[21:36] <dashua> What did you use as a starting metacity?
[21:36] <macvr> dashua: i started with dust sand .
[21:36] <dashua> Sand?
[21:36] <dashua> Ok
[21:38] <kwwii> dashua: well, good question, now that you ask
[21:38] <macvr> dashua: i'm in no hurry, you can do it in your leisure
[21:39] <macvr> kwwii: pls dont remove clearlooks :(
[21:39] <kwwii> why?
[21:39] <kwwii> not that I would remove the engine
[21:39] <kwwii> or the other themes
[21:39] <macvr> i like it ;p
[21:39] <kwwii> but why have the human clearlooks stuff?
[21:40] <macvr> it has the blue ;p
[21:40] <kwwii> lol, that is not human
[21:40] <kwwii> we are talking about two different things
[21:40] <macvr> oh!
[21:41] <kwwii> but anyway....anyone who takes photos who is not on the flickr group and contributing should be
[21:41] <macvr> i thought he was referring to the clearlooks theme!
[21:41] <kwwii> and with that, I will call it a night
[21:41] <dashua> kwwii: Night mate.
[21:41] <kwwii> I toot my horn to everyone and then watch a film
[21:41] <kwwii> be good, have fun ;)
[21:41] <knome> see you kwwii
[21:42] <macvr> nite kwwii
[21:42] <SiDi> kwwii: what about people in the group and not taking photo ? (<-)
[21:42] <kwwii> night all
[21:42] <kwwii> SiDi: good point!
[21:42] <SiDi> night kwwii :p
[21:42] <knome> SiDi, i joined, so should you :P
[21:42] <SiDi> knome: i did too :D
[21:42] <kwwii> I actually thought about making another flickr group for that
[21:42] <knome> SiDi, you can take a photo of your... belly button
[21:42] <kwwii> people seem to like flickr
[21:42] <SiDi> knome: meh. i'll take a photo of kittens
[21:42] <knome> :D
[21:42] <SiDi> kwwii: i registered to yahoo for this group
[21:42] <knome> SiDi, they're not that cute
[21:42] <kwwii> and non-ubuntu people who have some talent seem to group there
[21:42] <SiDi> i resisted for ~7 years to yahoo !
[21:43]  * SiDi slaps knome with a angry kitten
[21:43] <knome> i think this might motivate me to use flickr more...
[21:43] <kwwii> so maybe it is a way to draw them to light side of the force
[21:43] <SiDi> hiya ckontros
[21:43] <SiDi> kwwii: sxc.hu is cool too  but not so communautary
[21:43] <kwwii> ok, he is back...I really gotta go
[21:43] <kwwii> SiDi: no doubt
[21:43] <SiDi> but you can surely find people who would accept giving you some photos there :)
[21:43] <kwwii> hi ckontros
[21:43] <kwwii> just kidding
[21:43] <kwwii> but I was just leaving
[21:44]  * SiDi hides kwwii so that ckontros doesnt notice him
[21:44]  * SiDi brings a kitten launcher and points it towards knome.
[21:44] <knome> meh
[21:44]  * ckontros waves
[21:44] <knome> flickr pro is just too expensive.
[21:45] <knome> really means one should update photos there.
[21:45] <knome> well..
[21:45] <knome> lets
[21:45] <knome> see :P
[21:45] <ckontros> $20 is expensive? (what I last thought it cost anyway)
[21:46] <kwwii> actually, I have been using flickr pro for several years
[21:46] <kwwii> mainly for my parents
[21:46] <kwwii> I had it on my own site and they simply didn't get it
[21:47] <SiDi> ckontros: $20 will be my august flat rent :D
[21:48] <ckontros> Wanna trade with me?
[21:50] <ckontros> SiDi ^^^
[21:50] <SiDi> ckontros: a flat for a flickr pro ?
[21:50] <SiDi> you've never seen my flat !
[21:50] <SiDi> if you mean flat rents... depends, do we also trade jobs ?
[21:51] <ckontros> SiDi: I'm askin if ya wanna trade our housing payments. ;)
[21:51] <SiDi> how much do you pay ?
[21:51] <ckontros> $1100 monthly
[21:51] <SiDi> ahahahaha
[21:51] <SiDi> i could pay two months per year :D
[21:52] <ckontros> ;)
[21:52] <SiDi> Question for the people who write GUIs from times to times !
[21:52] <SiDi> I've got an image in a hbox in a menu item
[21:52] <SiDi> i want to change this image, and i want to _see_ the change
[21:52] <SiDi> what magic methode shall i call ? :O
[21:52] <SiDi> method*


[16:00]  * slangasek waves
[16:01] <slangasek> sorry, just finishing up a reboot, still finding the paperwork on my desktop :P
[16:02] <mdeslaur> \o
[16:03] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:03] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 20 16:03:09 2017 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:03] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[16:03] <slangasek> looks like we have slangasek, mdeslaur, infinity
[16:03] <slangasek> kees: here?
[16:05] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Apologies
[16:05] <slangasek> none sent
[16:05] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Action review
[16:05] <slangasek> ACTION: infinity to ask maas team to prepare SRU exception policy à la CurtinUpdates
[16:06] <slangasek> infinity: any progress?
[16:06] <infinity> I spoke with them a few weeks ago to get the ball rolling.  Will nag more.
[16:07] <slangasek> ok; carry over the action, then?
[16:07] <infinity> *nod*
[16:07] <slangasek> ACTION: infinity to play with seed/maint-check changes on dogfood to build a new xenial release pocket for support length auditing (ETA: 16.04.3 release)
[16:07] <infinity> And carried.
[16:07] <slangasek> ok
[16:07] <slangasek> ACTION: slangasek to investigate getting tagged ubuntu-community bugs automatically forwarded to technical-board, and if not feasible, fall back to DMB sending signed emails to list for ACL requests
[16:07] <slangasek> this is carried
[16:07] <slangasek> ACTION: slangasek to follow up to snapd-glib SRU exception request
[16:07] <slangasek> this is done (finally, after repeated prompting by email)
[16:08] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Mailing list archive
[16:08] <slangasek> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2017-June/thread.html
[16:08] <slangasek> there was the snapd-glib discussion
[16:09] <slangasek> and then there was a strange message I moderated about cli-mono package set ownership
[16:09] <slangasek> seems to have been a stray follow-up to a TB request from 2011, so ignorable
[16:09] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Community bugs
[16:11] <slangasek> and I've gone and lost the browser tab :P
[16:11] <infinity> Taking a while to count to zero. ;)
[16:11] <slangasek> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bugs?field.assignee=techboard
[16:11] <slangasek> 0
[16:12] <slangasek> ;)
[16:12] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:12] <slangasek> anything else before we rotate chairs?
[16:12] <mdeslaur> nothing from me
[16:12] <infinity> Nein.
[16:12] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Select a chair for the next meeting
[16:13] <slangasek> looks like stgraber next, with infinity backup
[16:14] <infinity> Yep.
[16:14] <slangasek> [AGREED] next TB meeting Tuesday, July 4 @ 17:00 London Time; stgraber chair; infinity backup
[16:15] <slangasek> holiday in the US, but you can carry on without us
[16:15] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[16:15] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 20 16:15:07 2017 UTC.
[16:15] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting-2/2017/ubuntu-meeting-2.2017-06-20-16.03.moin.txt
[16:15] <slangasek> infinity, mdeslaur: thanks!
[16:15] <mdeslaur> thanks slangasek, infinity


[02:59] <mup> PR snapcraft#3295 opened: specification: desktop extension font hook <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3295>
[05:27] <mborzecki> morning
[05:34] <mborzecki> back in a bit, need ot drive the kids to school and then hopefully a brief visit to the tax office
[06:28] <zyga> good morning
[06:28]  * zyga sees two failures on 16.04 left
[06:28] <zyga> neat :)
[06:30] <mvo> zyga: good morning
[06:32] <zyga> hey :)
[06:32] <zyga> how are you?
[06:33] <zyga> ok, tweked two more tests and started another run
[06:40] <zyga> 16.04 gets a green pass, looking at 18.04 which unlocks a few more tests
[06:41] <mborzecki> re
[06:41] <mborzecki> mvo: zyga: morning guys
[06:41] <zyga> hey mborzecki
[06:42] <mvo> hey mborzecki
[06:42] <zyga> it's not quite frosty morning stage yet
[06:42] <zyga> but it's definitely chilly morning here
[06:42] <zyga> but even more than yesterday, we're looking at crazy 28C later today
[06:49] <zyga> I'll grab some food
[07:05] <zyga> mmmm, scrambled eggs never get old
[07:07] <pstolowski> morning
[07:10] <zyga> hello Pawel
[07:10] <mvo> good morning pstolowski
[07:26] <pstolowski> o/
[07:53] <zyga> 18.04 is clean
[07:53] <zyga> 20.04 and then core
[07:54] <zyga> I think there may be a few tests left
[07:54] <zyga> and definitely selinux
[07:54] <zyga> but this looks great
[08:06] <Chipaca> zyga: 👋
[08:06] <Chipaca> zyga: is snap-confine still your bff?
[08:11] <Chipaca> asking because a friend is getting a 'sanity timeout expired' thing, https://dpaste.org/2YDP
[08:12] <Chipaca> snap version & etc, https://dpaste.org/mfb8
[08:22] <zyga-mbp> Chipaca hey
[08:22] <zyga-mbp> sorry, I was in a call
[08:22] <zyga-mbp> Chipaca ohhh
[08:22] <zyga-mbp> let me look
[08:22] <StyXman> BTW, the friend he mentions it's me
[08:22] <zyga-mbp> StyXman o/
[08:22] <Chipaca> StyXman: 🙂
[08:23] <zyga-mbp> so was the machine under some incredible load?
[08:23] <Chipaca> zyga-mbp: of note is that this isn't the first time it happens, and last time StyXman had to reboot to fix it
[08:23] <zyga-mbp> that timeout is a relatively short in human scale but really huge in kernel scale duration where we grab an exclusive lock to do something tiny
[08:23] <Chipaca> well, 'had to', tried it and it worked
[08:23] <mup> PR snapd#9400 opened: o/assertstate: support refreshing any number of snap-declarations <Created by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9400>
[08:23] <zyga-mbp> I have a few minutes and then another call I cannot miss
[08:23] <zyga-mbp> if you give me more context I will think about what may be going on
[08:24] <zyga-mbp> maybe it's a stuck process dead somewhere
[08:24] <zyga-mbp> well
[08:24] <zyga-mbp> not dead but blocked
[08:24] <zyga-mbp> and holding the lock
[08:24] <zyga-mbp> we rigged it so that processes that can grab it should die
[08:24] <zyga-mbp> the only exception is snapd which also grabs the lock for brief moments
[08:24] <zyga-mbp> so any context you can provide helps
[08:24] <Chipaca> zyga-mbp: maybe running fuser on the lock shines some light on that?
[08:25] <zyga> yes
[08:25] <zyga> it's a flock-based lock
[08:25] <zyga> the locks are in /run/snapd/lock
[08:26] <Chipaca> StyXman: try: sudo fuser -v /run/snapd/lock/lxd.lock
[08:26] <zyga-mbp> there's also a global lock /run/snapd/lock/.lock
[08:27] <StyXman> zyga-mbp: o/
[08:27]  * zyga-mbp types from two accounts
[08:28] <StyXman> zyga-mbp: holding *which* lock?
[08:28] <zyga-mbp> we grab the global lock, do some setup, then we grab the per-snap lock
[08:28] <zyga-mbp> here it was definitely holding the per-snap lock
[08:28] <StyXman> nothing on fuser's ouput
[08:28] <zyga-mbp> so /run/snapd/lock/lxd.lock
[08:29] <zyga-mbp> normally snap-confine itself grabs this lock
[08:29] <StyXman> nothing either, weird, even when snapd is running
[08:29] <zyga-mbp> to synchronize access of concurrently executing snap-confine
[08:29] <zyga-mbp> sometimes snapd also grabs this lock
[08:29] <zyga-mbp> but very briefly and in specific scenarios
[08:29] <zyga-mbp> can you reproduce the failure?
[08:29] <StyXman> all the time on this machine
[08:29] <zyga-mbp> hmmm
[08:29] <zyga-mbp> ok
[08:30] <StyXman> wait
[08:30] <StyXman> all the time in this reboot of this machine
[08:30] <StyXman> I hadn't (can't) reboot it now
[08:30] <StyXman> and i had this befor on other hosts
[08:30] <StyXman> https://github.com/lxc/lxd/issues/6772#issuecomment-606597033
[08:31] <StyXman> and the next, I'm the same person
[08:31] <StyXman> and I guess you'r in a meeting again
[08:34] <StyXman> I notice that the last two messages are not prefixed with DEBUG, so I guess it's not snapd who's printing them?
[08:34] <StyXman> notice the like above is an issue opened in the lxd project
[08:35] <StyXman> load is bellow 6 on a 32 core machine
[08:35] <StyXman> less than 50% ram used by apps, so no, no load at all
[08:36] <StyXman> I had restarted snapd too,  just in case
[08:38] <mup> PR snapd#9401 opened:  gadget: allow content observer to have opinions about a change  <Simple 😃> <UC20> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9401>
[08:57] <zyga> re
[08:57] <zyga> DEBUG messages are from snap-confine
[09:01] <zyga> StyXman: hmmm
[09:01] <zyga> StyXman: can you describe the setup a bit
[09:01] <zyga> like the FS used
[09:01] <zyga> or anything unusual?
[09:03] <StyXman> not much
[09:03] <StyXman> let me check this one
[09:03] <zyga> lxd on metal?
[09:03] <StyXman> yes
[09:03] <StyXman> sharing with KVM
[09:04] <StyXman> fs is xfs
[09:05] <StyXman> like I said, 32 cores, 128 of ram
[09:06] <StyXman> fs's are on LVM, opver several disks, but I don't think that's relevant
[09:07] <StyXman> how can I figure out which lock is failing?
[09:08] <StyXman> run under strace?
[09:08] <StyXman> run snapd*
[09:08] <zyga> one sec
[09:08] <StyXman> sure
[09:08] <zyga> you can run snap-confine via strace
[09:08] <StyXman> k
[09:08] <StyXman> how?
[09:09] <StyXman> I mean, which invocation (incantation?) of snap-confine?
[09:09] <zyga> hold on :)
[09:09] <StyXman> right
[09:11] <zyga> sudo SNAP_NAME=lxd SNAP_REVISION=$(readlink /snap/lxd/current) strace -f /snap/core/9993/usr/lib/snapd/snap-confine snap.lxd.lxd /bin/true
[09:11] <zyga> StyXman: ^ try this, you may also add --base core18 if lxd was using core18 as base (I forgot)
[09:11] <zyga> er
[09:12] <zyga> SNAP_INSTANCE_NAME=lxd instead of SNAP_NAME= most likely
[09:12] <StyXman> daam, that's definitely an incantation :)
[09:12] <zyga> typed dry, my setup has a custom snapd that does a lot new things and I'm not running things now
[09:13] <StyXman> something's *really* slow here
[09:13] <StyXman> I can see read()s scroll by
[09:14] <StyXman> it takes ages reading /proc/self/mountinfo
[09:14] <StyXman> WTF
[09:14] <zyga> can you read that?
[09:15] <zyga> note:
[09:15] <zyga> it may be reading the mountinfo of lxd
[09:15] <zyga> to reproduce
[09:15] <zyga> nsenter -m/run/snapd/ns/lxd.mnt cat /proc/self/mountinfo
[09:16] <zyga> do pastebin if it's curious and you have no secrets there
[09:16] <StyXman> this is insane: https://dpaste.org/viR7
[09:16] <StyXman> nsenter?
[09:16] <zyga> hmm, it doesn't load
[09:17] <zyga> nsenter is a tool that can jump into one of the many linux namespaces
[09:17] <zyga> the incantation I gave shows the mount namespace of the lxd snap
[09:17] <StyXman> something's really worng
[09:17] <zyga> StyXman: I cannot open the URL you have provided
[09:17] <StyXman> it's full of the same mount info over and over again
[09:18] <zyga> how big is the paste/
[09:18] <zyga> oh it loaded
[09:18] <StyXman> *sigh*
[09:18] <StyXman> mdione@demo-hv1:~$ sudo nsenter -m/run/snapd/ns/lxd.mnt time wc -l /proc/self/mountinfo
[09:18] <StyXman> nsenter: failed to execute time: No such file or directory
[09:18] <zyga> can you run the 2nd command and show me the vanilla output?
[09:18] <StyXman> it never ends
[09:18] <zyga> how about /bin/cat?
[09:19] <zyga> or /usr/bin/cat
[09:19] <StyXman> wait
[09:19] <zyga> (it's not running that in a shell)
[09:19] <StyXman> cat worked, it just never ends
[09:19] <zyga> so if you want time, you need sh -c ...
[09:19] <zyga> I'll make coffee
[09:19] <StyXman> the 'file' has this line repeade indefinitely:
[09:19] <StyXman> /lxd/storage-pools /mnt/kvm/lxd/storage-pools rw,relatime shared:104 master:34 - ext4 /dev/mapper/ssd-kvm rw,data=ordered
[09:19] <zyga> I think this may require lxd developers
[09:19] <zyga> lxd is very much special
[09:20] <zyga> and does things regular snaps cannot
[09:20] <zyga> StyXman: please collect the mountinfo in a bug report
[09:20] <zyga> and share it here
[09:20] <Chipaca> bug report for lxd, or snapd?
[09:20] <Chipaca> or both :-p
[09:20] <zyga-mbp> for lxd for now
[09:20] <zyga-mbp> on lp it can be both
[09:21] <zyga-mbp> so
[09:21] <zyga-mbp> it's not a bug in snap-confine
[09:21] <zyga-mbp> it's a very unusual mount namespace
[09:21] <zyga-mbp> the origin of the bug is unclear for now
[09:21] <StyXman> ack :(
[09:22] <zyga-mbp> please collect the full output of mountinfo
[09:22] <zyga-mbp> on both the host
[09:22] <zyga-mbp> and as seen from lxd point of view
[09:23] <zyga-mbp> if you need to reboot please get those first
[09:23] <zyga-mbp> you can redirect to a file to avoid losing it
[09:25] <StyXman> I waited more than a minute before I got tired of seeing the same line appear over and over again
[09:25] <StyXman> also: WTH is it doing between lines?
[09:27] <StyXman> I just send it to a log file, let's see how long it takes
[09:27] <StyXman> (now I just realized maybe the remoteness was playing a part in it)
[09:29] <StyXman> WTF
[09:29] <StyXman> the first few reads take >100µs, then it jumps up to 10s of ms
[09:32] <StyXman> cat is taking ages
[09:34] <StyXman> 3m48s
[09:34] <StyXman> wc -l /tmp/nsenter_cat_proc_self_mountinfo.log
[09:34] <StyXman> 65631 /tmp/nsenter_cat_proc_self_mountinfo.log
[09:37] <zyga-mbp> StyXman it's a virtual file
[09:38] <zyga-mbp> generating each line is non trivial in general
[09:38] <zyga-mbp> can you paste it anywhere?
[09:39] <StyXman> I don't think it makes sense
[09:40] <StyXman> oh
[09:40] <StyXman> yes, there are some interesting things
[09:40] <StyXman> we use loop files in the ocntainers
[09:40] <StyXman> and it seems it has something to do
[09:40] <StyXman> it's exponential!
[09:41] <StyXman> https://dpaste.org/6qp0
[09:41] <StyXman> before the first loop device the'res one line
[09:41] <StyXman> before the second, 2
[09:41] <StyXman> before the third, 4
[09:42] <StyXman> 8, 16,, ...
[09:42] <StyXman> 2**n
[09:42] <StyXman> there are 28 loop files on that node
[09:46] <StyXman> so at the end it should be... around 512 million lines?
[09:53] <zyga-mbp> StyXman that can take a while
[09:53]  * Chipaca has a O(no) joke
[09:53] <zyga-mbp> I think we'd like to know how it happened
[09:53] <zyga-mbp> and if it comes back after rebooting
[09:53] <StyXman> Chipaca: hehehehe
[09:54] <zyga-mbp> but before please ask stgraber for help
[09:54] <zyga-mbp> my network is experiencing big issues, I may be offline
[09:54] <Chipaca> StyXman: stgraber is -0400 so maybe in a bit
[09:56] <StyXman> is that NY?
[09:57]  * StyXman has more clocks in his wall that humanly needed
[10:01] <Chipaca> StyXman: NY is also -4, yes
[10:08] <zyga-mbp> re
[10:08] <zyga-mbp> I think my network is back
[10:08] <zyga-mbp> StyXman what's in mountinfo outside of lxd?
[10:08] <zyga-mbp> on your host, that is
[10:08] <zyga-mbp> did you do any changes to mount tables recently?
[10:09] <StyXman> on the host not really, it's been ages since it was installed
[10:09] <zyga> ok
[10:09] <StyXman> the contaioners come and go as needed
[10:10] <StyXman> it's (ab)used for testing purposes
[10:11] <StyXman> here's the lxd comments: https://github.com/lxc/lxd/issues/6772#issuecomment-697265476
[10:12] <zyga> thank you
[10:19] <mup> Issue core20#72 opened: move docker user/group to extrausers <Blocked> <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/core20/issues/72>
[10:19] <mup> PR core20#45 closed: Add arches <Created by xnox> <Closed by xnox> <https://github.com/snapcore/core20/pull/45>
[10:19] <mup> PR core20#86 closed: .travis.yml: use stable snapcraft now <Created by anonymouse64> <Merged by xnox> <https://github.com/snapcore/core20/pull/86>
[10:24] <mup> PR core20#87 opened: Revert "hooks: mv docker user/group definition to extrausers" <Created by xnox> <https://github.com/snapcore/core20/pull/87>
[10:39] <ijohnson> yay new pc-kernel in edge
[10:39] <ijohnson> and also good morning folks
[10:40] <pstolowski> hi ijohnson !
[10:41] <ijohnson> o/ pstolowski
[10:41] <zyga> ijohnson: good morning!
[10:42] <zyga> hmm
[10:42] <ijohnson> hey zyga
[10:42] <zyga> is google down?
[10:42]  * ijohnson is excitedly testing the new edge kernel
[10:43] <zyga> 2020-09-23 12:43:03 Cannot allocate google:opensuse-15.1-64: cannot perform Google request: Get https://www.googleapis.com/compute/v1/projects/computeengine/zones: Post https://oauth2.googleapis.com/token: dial tcp <IP_ADDRESS>:443: i/o timeout
[10:43] <zyga> over and over
[10:43] <zyga> maybe my network segment somewhere is flaky
[10:50] <ijohnson> zyga: seems to be working fine for me, I just launched a spread run on gce
[10:50] <zyga> thanks
[10:57] <zyga> 2020-09-23T12:56:36+02:00 ERROR Get https://api.snapcraft.io/api/v1/snaps/assertions/snap-revision/EnYyzGIokaLNadpwYWUw0qFczPCprbUPfS3KPBv8VsDMkFLDmosiytxhmkP9hwSP?max-format=0: net/http: request canceled while waiting for connection (Client.Timeout exceeded while awaiting headers)
[10:57] <zyga> hmmm
[10:57] <zyga> network is troubled
[11:00] <zyga> mborzecki: I've just installed gimp
[11:00] <zyga> no fonts
[11:00] <zyga> and it crashes
[11:01] <mborzecki> zyga: on fedora/opensuse?
[11:01] <zyga> on focal
[11:01] <mborzecki> ooh
[11:01] <mborzecki> zyga: try with --experimental-gdbserver maybe?
[11:02] <mborzecki> zyga: but i investigated it a bit on arch and the backtrace was pointing to fonts issues again
[11:14] <mup> PR snapd#9402 opened: tests/lib/prepare.sh: stop patching the uc20 initrd since it has been updated now <Run nested> <Simple 😃> <UC20> <⚠ Critical> <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9402>
[11:14] <zyga> weird
[11:14] <zyga> irc works
[11:14] <zyga> but stuff other than that falls apart
[11:16] <StyXman> ssh? http? ftp?
[11:17] <zyga> http
[11:18] <StyXman> http or https?
[11:18] <StyXman> what ISP?
[11:18] <zyga> t-mobile
[11:22]  * zyga goes to debug
[11:22] <zyga> sigh
[11:31] <zyga> (gimp:1053668): GLib-ERROR **: 13:30:51.456: ../../../../glib/gmem.c:333: overflow allocating<PHONE_NUMBER>3709551615*18446744073709551615 bytes
[11:33] <zyga> mborzecki: reinstalled, no change
[11:35] <mborzecki> zyga: yeah, iirc there was an earlier assertion that failed, try running with G_DEBUG=fatal-critical
[11:35] <mborzecki> quick errand, back in 30 or so
[11:35] <Chipaca> zyga: here's a nickle, kid, get yourself a computer that can allocate<PHONE_NUMBER>3709551615*18446744073709551615 bytes
[11:35] <zyga> Fontconfig warning: FcPattern object width does not accept value [85 100)
[11:35] <zyga>  /snap/gimp/292/usr/bin/gimp: Gimp-Text-KRYTYCZNE: gimp_font_factory_load_names: assertion 'fontset' failed
[11:35]  * Chipaca is out of nickles
[11:36] <zyga> heh
[11:36] <zyga> gimp_device_info_set_device: trying to set GdkDevice 'Ultimate Gadget Laboratories Ultimate Hacking Keyboard' on GimpDeviceInfo which already has a device
[11:50] <pedronis> degville: ijohnson: hi, a naming question here where maybe you can give some input:  https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9401#discussion_r493493467
[11:50] <mup> PR #9401:  gadget: allow content observer to have opinions about a change  <Simple 😃> <UC20> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9401>
[11:50] <degville> pedronis: looking now...
[11:52] <ijohnson> pedronis I responded too
[12:01] <mborzecki> re
[12:10] <pedronis> pstolowski: hi, added some comments in #9391
[12:10] <mup> PR #9391: [RFC] o/assertstate: introduce ValidationTrackingKey/ValidationSetTracking and basic methods <Needs Samuele review> <validation-sets :white_check_mark:> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9391>
[12:19] <pedronis> ijohnson: I reviewed #9379
[12:19] <mup> PR #9379: [RFC] cmd/s-b/initramfs-mounts: use ConfigureTargetSystem for install, recover modes <Bug> <Needs Samuele review> <Run nested> <UC20> <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9379>
[12:19]  * zyga-mbp goes for a walk
[12:33] <pstolowski> pedronis: ty
[12:35] <mborzecki> pedronis: wdyt about just using TrustedAssetsBootloader for the merged TrustedAssets* & ManagedAssets* interfaces?
[12:35] <mborzecki> or TrustedBootloader maybe?
[12:35] <pedronis> mborzecki: TrustedAssetsBootloader was what I thought
[12:37] <mborzecki> pedronis: ok
[13:40] <ijohnson> thanks pedronis I'll look at your review
[13:41] <ijohnson> btw can I get a review on https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9369 since it's green again due to new kernel snap in edge/beta ?
[13:41] <mup> PR #9369: tests/nested/manual/refresh-revert-fundamentals: re-enable test <Run nested> <UC20> <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9369>
[13:41] <ijohnson> (from anyone though)
[13:41] <ijohnson> that pr is green now just needs reviews
[14:07] <ijohnson> man github actions new view is nice in that it jumpts to the error again like it did a few months ago initially, but now the log on that page is less than 20% of the screen :-/
[14:12] <ijohnson> tests/main/snap-run seems to be hanging in strace reliably on ubuntu 20.04, 18.04 and 16.04 since recently I wonder if something broken in strace recently that makes this hang happen
[14:24] <zyga> I'm running opensuse tests and it looks like apparmor profile for snap-confine is just not getting loaded
[14:25] <mup> PR snapd#9369 closed: tests/nested/manual/refresh-revert-fundamentals: re-enable test <Run nested> <UC20> <⚠ Critical> <Created by anonymouse64> <Merged by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9369>
[14:29] <pedronis> zyga: I looked at https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9384, one questions there
[14:29] <mup> PR #9384: overlord: export and use snapd tools <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9384>
[14:30] <pedronis> maybe I'm confused or something can be simplified further?
[14:48] <ijohnson> #9395 needs another review and is fairly simple
[14:48] <mup> PR #9395:  o/snapstate/check_snap_test.go: mock osutil.Find{U,G}id to avoid bug in test <Bug> <Test Robustness> <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9395>
[15:04] <ijohnson> pedronis: I addressed your feedback on #9379 and marked it ready for review
[15:04] <mup> PR #9379: [RFC] cmd/s-b/initramfs-mounts: use ConfigureTargetSystem for install, recover modes <Bug> <Needs Samuele review> <Run nested> <UC20> <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9379>
[15:04] <ijohnson> pedronis: let me know if you want me to split the pr up at all
[15:17] <pedronis> ijohnson: why split it? is not large
[15:17] <ijohnson> pedronis: I dunno cause sometimes it is easier to split things
[15:17] <ijohnson> but sure not splitting is easier for me anyways :-)
[15:18] <pedronis> anything up to 500 is usually reasonable, even a bit more if a good chunk is tests
[15:20] <ijohnson> makes sense
[15:20] <mup> PR snapd#9403 opened: many: move ManagedAssetsBootloader into TrustedAssetsBootloader, drop former <Simple 😃> <UC20> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9403>
[15:23] <pedronis> ijohnson: question there
[15:24] <mborzecki> pedronis: is https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9005 something we want for 1.0?
[15:24] <mup> PR #9005: boot: support setting extra command line argument, bootloader interface tweaks <UC20> <⛔ Blocked> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9005>
[15:24] <ijohnson> where?
[15:26] <pedronis> ijohnson: in the PR
[15:26] <ijohnson> pedronis: oh it was in the resolved conversation sorry I see it now
[15:26] <pedronis> mborzecki: possibly, we need to discuss
[15:26] <mborzecki> pedronis: ok, let's sync in the morning then
[15:27] <ijohnson> pedronis: https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/subiquity/blob/fe012f20dc758f1fb1641d0b5744baf00739524d/bin/console-conf-wrapper#L25
[15:27] <ijohnson> afaik writing the complete file shouldn't interfere with that at all
[15:28] <pedronis> ah, thx
[15:29] <pedronis> yes, writing the complete is not a problem. we still support the recover trigger in case anyway because of the or cond in the service
[15:34] <pedronis> ijohnson: +1
[15:34] <ijohnson> nice thanks
[16:00] <mup> PR snapd#9402 closed: tests/lib/prepare.sh: stop patching the uc20 initrd since it has been updated now <Run nested> <Simple 😃> <UC20> <⚠ Critical> <Created by anonymouse64> <Merged by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9402>
[16:03] <zyga-mbp> pedronis ack, looking
[16:04] <pedronis> zyga-mbp: I got this failure google:arch-linux-64:tests/main/cgroup-tracking:root here: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8569/checks?check_run_id=1155234596
[16:04] <mup> PR #8569: o/assertstate,asserts: use bulk refresh to refresh snap-declarations <Bulk assert refresh :scroll::scroll::scroll:> <Created by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8569>
[16:15] <mup> PR snapd#8569 closed: o/assertstate,asserts: use bulk refresh to refresh snap-declarations <Bulk assert refresh :scroll::scroll::scroll:> <Created by pedronis> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8569>
[16:15] <mup> PR snapd#9404 opened: asserts: deserialize grouping only once in AddBatch if needed <Created by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9404>
[16:25] <mup> PR snapd#9334 closed: tests/nested/manual: add test for grades above signed booting with testkeys <Run nested> <Test Robustness> <UC20> <Created by anonymouse64> <Merged by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9334>
[16:25] <mup> PR snapd#9397 closed: tests/nested: misc robustness fixes <Run nested> <Simple 😃> <Test Robustness> <Created by anonymouse64> <Merged by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9397>
[16:28] <ijohnson> cachio: did you ever look at the api for gcloud launching shielded vm's? I see that actually in their rest API they have a `shieldedInstanceInitialState` setting which can take in pk, keks , dbs, and dbxs settings, which I assume is for the secure boot configuration
[16:29] <zyga> pedronis: looking at the failure
[16:29] <ijohnson> cachio: of course to be able to set that, I assume it would need spread changes but that could probably be handled
[16:30] <cachio> ijohnson, hey
[16:31] <cachio> I already verified that a time ago
[16:31] <cachio> they confirmed that it is not possible to set the keys for the secure boot
[16:31] <ijohnson> cachio: ah ok, so this api is not really usable for that then
[16:31] <cachio> It was when we were at frankfurt
[16:31] <ijohnson> cachio: I was wondering if maybe they added it since you looked at it
[16:32] <cachio> I can chack again
[16:32] <ijohnson> right a million years ago :-D
[16:32] <ijohnson> cachio: no need, I just was waiting for test results and looked at the api
[16:32] <cachio> ijohnson, it was the ifrst thing we tried to do
[16:32] <ijohnson> I see
[16:33] <cachio> ijohnson, I fixed tumbleweed again
[16:33] <cachio> for some raeson a new kernel appeared
[16:33] <ijohnson> nice I'll keep an eye out on runs this afternoon for tumbleweed
[16:33] <cachio> I am testing right now
[16:35] <zyga> pedronis: no immediate idea, we did run a test from another suite quite recently before this test, still no idea why this failed exactly
[16:59]  * cachio afk -> go to doctor app and make study
[17:01] <cachio> ijohnson, I am leaving now, if you need any review just leave me a message, I'll do it when I am back
[17:02] <ijohnson> cachio: I'm good for now, thanks!
[17:02] <cachio> ijohnson, nice
[18:40] <ijohnson> cachio: when you're back really simple pr https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9405
[18:40] <mup> PR #9405: tests/nested/manual/grade-signed-above-testkeys-boot: enable kvm <Run nested> <Simple 😃> <Test Robustness> <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9405>
[18:41] <mup> PR snapd#9405 opened: tests/nested/manual/grade-signed-above-testkeys-boot: enable kvm <Run nested> <Simple 😃> <Test Robustness> <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9405>
[19:29] <zyga> re
[19:29] <zyga> PT is late recently
[19:29] <zyga> tired and sleepy
[19:29] <zyga> and bloody tests got network timeouts
[19:37] <zyga> some more network luck now
[19:37] <zyga> 2020-09-23 21:37:38 Error discarding google:arch-linux-64 (sep231929-708690): cannot deallocate Google server google:arch-linux-64 (sep231929-708690): cannot perform Google request: Delete https://www.googleapis.com/compute/v1/projects/computeengine/zones/us-east1-b/instances/sep231929-708690: dial tcp <IP_ADDRESS>:443: i/o timeout
[19:37] <zyga> all the time
[19:38] <zyga> oh well
[19:38] <zyga> tomorrow I will start with my network
[19:45] <zyga-kaveri> on fallback link
[19:46] <zyga-kaveri> I need to debug the primary link tomorrow
[19:46] <zyga-kaveri> o/
[19:46]  * zyga-kaveri EODs
[19:46] <zyga-kaveri> ijohnson: if you have a minute I have a super-simple PR at 9407
[19:46] <mup> PR snapd#9406 opened: many: allow ignoring running apps for specific request <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9406>
[19:46] <mup> PR snapd#9407 opened: overlord: explicitly set refresh-app-awareness in tests <Simple 😃> <Skip spread> <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9407>
[19:53] <ijohnson> zyga-kaveri: sur
[19:53] <ijohnson> Sure
[21:47] <mup> PR snapcraft#3294 closed: project loader: install dirmngr prior to configuring package repositories <Created by cjp256> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3294>


[12:38] <mdke> can someone try editing https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuHashes please?
[12:42] <Laser_away> "You are not allowed to view this page."
[12:42] <mdke> to view??
[12:42] <mdke> you can't even see it?
[12:42] <somerville32> "You are not allowed to view this page."
[12:42] <Laser_away> mdke: nope
[12:42] <somerville32> mdke: nope
[12:43] <Laser_away> I'm logged in too
[12:43] <mdke> wtf
[12:43] <somerville32> Me too
[12:43] <somerville32> or wait
[12:43] <somerville32> no, I'm not
[12:43] <mdke> that makes no sense
[12:44] <mdke> how about now?
[12:45] <LaserJock> nope
[12:45] <mdke> ffs
[12:46] <mdke> now, surely?
[12:48] <mdke> help!
[12:48] <mdke> any browser caching or something?
[12:49] <mdke> alright, I'll better test the bugger myself
[12:49] <somerville32> I cleared the cache
[12:49] <somerville32> still not working
[12:50] <LaserJock> still no workie
[12:51] <mdke> ok, now you can view it
[12:51] <mdke> how about editing it?
[12:52] <LaserJock> I can see it
[12:52] <LaserJock> no editing
[12:52] <LaserJock> "immutable Page"
[12:52] <mdke> phew
[12:52] <mdke> god Moin is a PITA
[12:52] <LaserJock> I even tried to put the edit url in
[12:52] <LaserJock> :-)
[12:53] <mdke> thanks for your help, both
[12:55] <somerville32> np :)
[12:58] <LaserJock> mdke: "those who can't, test" ;-)
[01:03] <LaserJock> my goodness, a lot of people edit Mark's wiki page
[04:07] <nixternal> Kubuntu Makefile is working again :)
[04:30] <linuxphotogeek_> svn help anyone?
[04:32] <nixternal> whats up?
[04:32] <linuxphotogeek_> Is there a way to change or add to a 'commit' message?
[04:32] <nixternal> edubuntu docs updated and ready for building
[04:32] <nixternal> LaserJock: ^^
[04:32] <nixternal> well i guess i could do them as well :)
[04:33] <nixternal> svn commit -m "commit message"
[04:33] <nixternal> linuxphotogeek_: ^^
[04:34] <linuxphotogeek_> I've already committed using esvn and it had a message selected
[04:34] <linuxphotogeek_> I didn't notice unitl too late
[04:34] <nixternal> ah, i don't know about esvn, im a command line user.
[04:34] <nixternal> i'm sure there is a way to do so though
[04:37] <LaserJock> linuxphotogeek_: I don't think you can just post-edit the comments
[04:37] <LaserJock> nixternal: excelent
[04:38] <linuxphotogeek_> I guess I could make a trival change and recommit but seems messy
[04:38] <nixternal> so now it seems all of our docs are building again!!!
[04:38] <nixternal> mdke rocks!
[04:42] <LaserJock> nixternal: hmm, so should I add the debian/ dir to edubuntu/ like ubuntu and kubuntu?
[04:43] <nixternal> i would do it like ubuntu, not kubuntu since we build all of our xml to html for KHelpCenter
[04:43] <nixternal> which I am going to fix for the next release (feisty+1)
[04:43] <LaserJock> well, but I mean adding the packaging to the doc team repo
[04:43] <nixternal> all kubuntu docs will end with .docbook so we don't have to build them seperately
[04:43] <nixternal> LaserJock: yes
[04:44] <nixternal> you know the packaging stuff better than i do, and i feel more comfortable having you at least start it, then i will ahve no problem maintaining it
[05:26] <somerville32> Does help.u.c have a newer version of the MoinMoin then wiki.u.c ?
[05:27] <LaserJock> it's possible
[09:50] <mdke> somerville32: no, same version
[09:50] <mdke> somerville32: Moin versione.
[09:50] <mdke> versions*
[09:50] <somerville32> ah
[09:50] <mdke> somerville32: you can get system and version info from SystemInfo on moin wikis, for future interest
[09:51] <somerville32> kk, thanks
[09:57] <mdke> linuxphotogeek: nice work!
[10:14] <mpt> !!!!!!
[10:14] <mpt> Thank you for that tip!
[10:14] <mpt> I have been wondering that for years
[10:14] <mpt> Now I can understand the differences in the various wikis Canonical uses
[04:17] <alefteris> is it possible to create a table without borders or define its color at the ubuntu wiki?
[04:29] <willvdl> alefteris, it is. just looking up the references
[04:35] <willvdl> darn, could have sworn I did it somewhere
[04:36] <alefteris> willvdl, you mean about the borders? i looked the wiki help about formating and i didnt find anything. Is it possible to set it with css styles?
[04:41] <willvdl> alefteris, could be, haven't tried. Sorry, thought I knew how to do it but can't seem to get it right
[06:56] <willvdl> nixternal ping
[06:56] <nixternal> pongidy pong pong
[06:56] <nixternal> I'm popular this morning
[06:56] <willvdl> you are?
[06:56] <nixternal> ya, everyone is pinging me
[06:56] <willvdl> maybe they like the way you respond
[06:56] <nixternal> hehe
[06:57] <willvdl> I'm helping out with a conference in nigeria and am looking for some nice videos
[06:57] <willvdl> Tutorials, Freedom, Demo type things
[06:58] <willvdl> got any favourates?
[06:58] <nixternal> hmm
[06:58] <nixternal> ya, actually i do
[06:58] <nixternal> let me grab a link
[06:59] <nixternal> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1x7xPUA5YM
[06:59] <nixternal> that is a great video of 2 great leaders in Open Source
[07:00] <willvdl> ooh. cool
[07:00] <willvdl> gonna need to download a bunch of these things. west africa is not big on connectivity
[07:00] <nixternal> willvdl: i recommend you watch that one first to see if it qualifies
[07:00] <nixternal> it is Jeff and Pia Waugh :)
[07:01] <nixternal> and was a joke by the way ;p
[07:01] <willvdl> yeah I noticed :)
[07:01] <nixternal> lol
[07:01] <nixternal> for tutorials, i would say talk to popey as he is the Ubuntu Video Tutorial Master!
[07:02] <willvdl> groovy
[07:02] <nixternal> for demos, there were some on http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/
[07:02] <willvdl> I've got go-open campaign DVDs as well which are quite nice
[07:03] <nixternal> that will definitely help
[07:03] <nixternal> is there a link for those DVDs at all?
[07:06] <willvdl> ooh, lemme check
[07:09] <willvdl> it's a collection from the tv show
[07:09] <willvdl> http://www.go-opensource.org/go_open/
[07:10] <nixternal> thanks
[07:10] <willvdl> can't find links to the video though
[07:11] <willvdl> ah http://www.go-opensource.org/go_open/news/download_go_open/
[07:11] <nixternal> ya, just found them :)
[07:15] <willvdl> my word my kubuntu is unstable today
[07:16] <willvdl> kaffeine wont play the dvd, kmail crashed 3 times and kopete does weird things to my text
[07:16] <willvdl> I liked this one http://youtube.com/watch?v=QOlrKH3SmtI
[07:17] <nixternal> i love my kubuntu stability :)
[07:19] <nixternal> OMG WOW1
[07:19] <nixternal> ! too :)
[07:19] <willvdl> wouldn't play the DVD if I had videos open in firefox
[07:19] <willvdl> don't get me wrong, I love all untus. just today I had probs
[07:20] <nixternal> my only problems are the latest feisty images not booting for me
[07:21] <nixternal> im going to try a live cd now
[07:24] <willvdl> erm, I'm an idiot. Is there any way to download videos off ubuntuvideo?
[07:26] <nixternal> i use a script called gentube from kde-apps.org
[07:27] <nixternal> the ubuntuvideos are pretty much all youtube
[07:28] <nixternal> hrmm, and obviously gentube doesn't work
[07:28] <willvdl> flash videos
[07:28] <willvdl> mostly?
[07:30] <nixternal> http://www.youtubex.com/
[07:30] <nixternal> ya they are mostly flash videos, especially if they are youtube videos
[07:31] <willvdl> ok, that link helps
[07:31] <willvdl> what do you reckon will happen to quality if I convert format?
[07:32] <nixternal> dunno, going to try that now
[07:38] <willvdl> hmm, youtubex doesn't like rewritten urls
[07:40] <nixternal> i can't figure out how to convert this video
[07:44] <willvdl> what you using?
[07:44] <nixternal> nothing yet
[07:44] <willvdl> try choosing an application :P
[07:45] <nixternal> dunno which one to use, im a newb when it comes to this sort of stuff
[08:03] <popey> hello willvdl nixternal
[08:03] <willvdl> hey
[08:04] <popey> i suspect nixternal was referring to http://doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts/
[08:04] <willvdl> just trolling for videos/tutorials to showcase at a conference
[08:04] <willvdl> yip, I imagine
[08:05] <popey> when is the conference?
[08:05] <nixternal> i am not having any luck converting flv files
[08:05] <mdke> mpt: hugs
[08:05] <popey> nixternal: ffmpeg -i foo.flv foo.mpeg  ?
[08:05] <willvdl> popey, perhaps you could explain to me how to download a google video? just can't seem to get it right
[08:05] <popey> i have never downloaded a google video
[08:05] <popey> are you after one in particular?
[08:05] <nixternal> popey: how come it says i need to download adobe flash when i goto /screencasts?
[08:05] <popey> one of mine? or someone elses?
[08:05] <willvdl> popey, is there any loss of quality in that conversion?
[08:06] <popey> willvdl: no, flv is already crap :)
[08:06] <nixternal> lol
[08:06] <popey> nixternal: because the screencasts are in flash format
[08:06] <willvdl> do you have better quality versions somewhere?
[08:06] <popey> but if you click the title you get a page where you can download the ogg or mpeg
[08:06] <nixternal> hrmm, interesting, i have flash already installed
[08:06] <popey> yes, the mpeg2 - the biggest ones, are the best quality
[08:06] <willvdl> woohoo
[08:07] <popey> text is nice and readable at 1024x768
[08:07] <popey> when is the conference ?
[08:07] <popey> if you have any particular things you would like to see, do let me know
[08:07] <willvdl> 12-22 MArch
[08:07] <popey> plenty of time ;)
[08:07] <willvdl> well, it's actually for the legal fraternity with some members from the pan-african parliament
[08:08] <willvdl> so any real techy stuff will get lost
[08:08] <willvdl> but the conference is on a legal informatics framework so they are somewhat tech-savvy
[08:09] <popey> well if there are specific apps they use - maybe windows ones you would like to run under wine?
[08:09] <popey> or maybe show off some linux equiv of a windows app they use, let me know
[08:09] <willvdl> linux equiv is good
[08:09] <popey> yeah, preferable
[08:09] <willvdl> don't like the wine idea, too confusing
[08:09] <popey> but you always get someone ask for an app that doesn't work
[08:10] <popey> well, I have actually already made one about wine
[08:10] <popey> shows how to get a wine app working
[08:10] <willvdl> true but wine causes headaches
[08:10] <popey> no command lines in sight :)
[08:10] <popey> true
[08:10] <willvdl> and loss of motor-function
[08:10] <willvdl> but I do find it helps me ride a bicycle better
[08:11] <popey> well, the offer is there, let me know if you want something specific demoe
[08:11] <popey> +d
[08:11] <willvdl> excellent. going to go through screencasts and see
[08:11] <willvdl> so the mpeg2 files are best quality
[08:11] <willvdl> and the oggs?
[08:11] <popey> yes
[08:11] <popey> ogg isn't far behind the mpeg2 in terms of quality
[08:12] <popey> and you get the bonus that you're playing using a free codec :)
[08:12] <willvdl> exactly
[08:12] <popey> if you run the ogg full screen at more than about 6 inches away I doubt anyone would notice
[08:13] <popey> unless you are projecting this on a wall in which case 6 inches probably isn't a good viewing distance :)
[08:13] <willvdl> probably going to put them on some kind of big screen
[08:13] <willvdl> not projecting but somewhere between 21" and 72"
[08:27] <willvdl> popey, thinking about tuts: key apps that get showcased are usually: email, browser, office
[08:28] <willvdl> the others that people love to see are: photos, music and IM/VOIP
[08:28] <nixternal> some odd reason, my flashplugin was nixed
[08:29] <willvdl> plugged out so to speak?
[08:29] <nixternal> hehe ya
[08:29] <willvdl> been waiting years to use that one
[08:29] <willvdl> finally I die contented
[08:29] <willvdl> can die rather
[08:29] <nixternal> lol
[08:29] <nixternal> i need a maid
[08:30] <nixternal> my dog has trashed my wood floors, and im to into writing up the Herd 2 release notes for Kubuntu :)
[08:45] <willvdl> urg, trying to play one of the screencast oggs but I only get sound but no video
[08:47] <mdke> my media players crash on them
[09:08] <theCore> hi LaserJock
[09:09] <theCore> LaserJock: I did some changes to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide
[09:09] <LaserJock> hi theCore
[09:09] <LaserJock> sorry I haven't been able to finish that
[09:09] <LaserJock> I've been to the dentist
[09:10] <theCore> hehe, excuses accepted :P
[09:10] <mdke> clearly a lie
[09:10] <LaserJock> mhm
[09:11] <LaserJock> you'd see a fresh temporary for a new crown
[09:11] <mdke> yeah, nice
[09:11] <LaserJock> this is my 5th crown in a year
[09:11] <LaserJock> that's what I get for not going to the dentist for 5 years
[09:14] <mdke> heh
[09:14] <mdke> it evens out in the end
[09:15] <LaserJock> still got one to go
[09:15] <LaserJock> and a bunch of fillings
[09:15] <LaserJock> and the uni doesn't provide dental insurance so it's rather expensive
[09:17] <LaserJock> theCore: I like your changes
[09:17] <theCore> LaserJock: thanks
[09:17] <LaserJock> theCore: I'm going to go mess it up a bit
[09:17] <LaserJock> but I like it
[09:17] <popey> willvdl: those are all on the to-do list, should have them done before march :)
[09:18] <willvdl> excellent!
[09:18] <willvdl> mdke ping
[09:18] <theCore> LaserJock: that is just an outline, the real work is doing those changes
[09:18] <theCore> LaserJock: hopefully, I will have some time to do them
[09:19] <mdke> willvdl: cheeky escape of my ping response
[09:19] <willvdl> better than nixternal's pingedy pong pong
[09:19] <willvdl> Just been thinking around low-bandwidth countries
[09:20] <willvdl> could we somehow add functionality to h.u.c to easily download the howto's in one foul swoop?
[09:20] <LaserJock> theCore: yeah
[09:20] <mdke> willvdl: we could do it with the wiki. As for the other part, it's shipped with the system already
[09:20] <mdke> willvdl: it would be *very* big though
[09:21] <willvdl> how big is very?
[09:21] <willvdl> it's all text...
[09:21] <willvdl> I mean the /community docs specifically
[09:22] <mdke> hmm. Dunno how big actually
[09:23] <mdke> we could try
[09:23] <mdke> we used to do it for the italian wiki, before it broke
[09:23] <mdke> http://help.ubuntu-it.org/wiki/ubuntu-it-wiki.tar
[09:24] <mdke> that's only about 1.1mb
[09:24] <willvdl> hmmm. could be extremely useful for some of the places I work with...
[09:24] <willvdl> like a good old wikipedia snapshot - h.u.c/community snapshot
[09:24] <mdke> ok, I'll investigate further
[09:24] <willvdl> thanks
[09:25] <mdke> can you code?
[09:25] <willvdl> used to code a lot but I got better
[09:25] <mdke> :)
[09:25] <mdke> I recollect the tool being a bit dodgy, I'll call on you if I can't understand something :)
[09:26] <willvdl> never really delved much into web-apps though. mainly embedded stuff and protocols
[09:26] <mdke> bbl
[11:03] <mpt> mdke, *delayed hugs*
[11:08] <mdke> :)
[11:17] <mdke> mpt: you'll probably like PageHits too
[11:49] <tristanbob> is there a documentation template for the wiki?
[11:49] <mdke> tristanbob: yes
[11:50] <tristanbob> I am creating a new page and I see many templates... nothing that jumps out at me
[11:50] <mdke> are you on the correct wiki?
[11:50] <tristanbob> not sure - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/
[11:50] <mdke> no :)
[11:50] <mdke> that's the developers wiki. The documentation wiki is here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community (you should move any documentation you've created on the developers wiki there)
[11:50] <tristanbob> I am not clear on the two wikis - I thought one was development (wiki) and help.ubuntu.com was production
[11:51] <tristanbob> what is the purpose of wiki.ubuntu.com vs help.ubuntu.com?  (link?)
[11:51] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BetterWikiDocs
[11:51] <tristanbob> thanks - I will read
[11:51] <mdke> :)
[11:52] <mdke> anyhow, the template is named DocumentationTemplate
[11:52] <mdke> try https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MyNewPage
[11:52] <tristanbob> thanks, I was just wondering how to create that
[11:52] <mdke> on the left
[11:52] <tristanbob> normally I do it from my wiki page
[11:52] <mdke> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/PageCreation
[11:52] <mdke> I'm bombarding you with links this evening :)
[11:53] <mdke> good stuff in WikiGuide, check it out
[11:53] <tristanbob> will do
[11:54] <tristanbob> how about a good title (I'm sure that is in the reading but...)
[11:54] <tristanbob> MountingNovellNetworkDrives
[11:54] <mdke> sounds fine; yeah, some basic tips on the PageCreation page
[11:54] <mdke> nothing very far away from common sense though
[11:56] <tristanbob> great.  Thanks for your time, mdke
[11:57] <mdke> np
[11:57] <mdke> tristanbob: congrats on your membership
[11:58] <tristanbob> thanks - it is not official yet (waiting for Mako)
[11:58] <mdke> oh yeah. Sure that won't be a problem
[11:59] <tristanbob> if I may ask a non-doc question:  should I tell users to mount network drives to /mnt ? is that the right place?
[11:59] <tristanbob> :) heheh, well it is a wiki and not written in stone
[12:00] <mdke> yep. I think that it's appropriate, myself, but I'm not an expert
[12:00] <mdke> removable drives go to /media, but network drives seem different to me
[12:00] <mdke> there will be some spec on it somewhere
[12:16] <tristanbob> mdke: should I be on the ubuntu-doc team if I only make infrequent wiki entries?
[12:16] <mdke> tristanbob: wikiteam is available for your joining pleasure if you are going to stick around a bit
[12:17] <mdke> ubuntu-doc is just for our repository really


[17:22] <cimbakahn> Is this correct? ---->  https://paste.teknik.io/2437      Or should each line have a ; Semi-colon after it?
[17:32] <krytarik> cimbakahn: This channel is for development, not support - and you are crossposting, too.
[17:35] <cimbakahn> What is crossposting?  Is it a bad thing to do here?
[17:36] <phillw> cimbakahn: yes on both counts