[00:02] <mup> PR snapd#1952 closed: configstate,hookstate: add snapctl set <Critical> <Created by kyrofa> <Merged by kyrofa> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1952>
[00:07] <mup> PR snapd#1983 opened: ctlcmd: add snapctl get <Created by kyrofa> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1983>
[02:04] <mup> Bug #1564076 changed: Can't launch snaps <gnome-software> <sdoc> <verification-done> <gnome-software (Ubuntu):Fix Committed by robert-ancell> <snapd (Ubuntu):Fix Released> <gnome-software (Ubuntu Xenial):New> <snapd (Ubuntu Xenial):Fix Released> <gnome-software (Ubuntu Yakkety):Fix Committed by
[02:04] <mup> robert-ancell> <snapd (Ubuntu Yakkety):Fix Released> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1564076>
[02:53] <mwhudson> er do tests pass with tip for people right now?
[02:55] <mwhudson> go test github.com/snapcore/snapd/interfaces/builtin fails for me
[03:15] <mup> PR snapd#1984 opened: daemon: add logging to help diagnose create-user slowness <Created by mwhudson> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1984>
[05:10] <Mirv> thanks mhall119 jdstrand nessita! that's what I thought, but it'd be nice to get an up-to-date playground example then like I doubt geany/geany-plugins is working at the moment. I guess that the plug and slot need to be named identically instead of specifying the content field.
[06:09] <mup> PR snapd#1985 opened: progress: use New64 and fix output newline <Created by mvo5> <Conflict> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1985>
[06:18] <mup> PR snapd#1973 closed: tests: ensure HOME is also set correctly <Created by mvo5> <Closed by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1973>
[06:19] <mup> PR snapd#1986 opened: tests: ensure HOME is also set correctly <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1986>
[06:39] <dholbach> hey hey
[06:54] <didrocks> good morning dholbach
[06:54] <dholbach> salut didrocks
[07:01] <zyga> o/
[08:18]  * ogra_ -> dentist
[08:44] <mup> PR snapd#1986 closed: tests: ensure HOME is also set correctly <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1986>
[09:15] <mup> PR snapd#1984 closed: daemon: add logging to help diagnose create-user slowness <Created by mwhudson> <Closed by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1984>
[09:16] <Chipaca> mwhudson, o/
[09:25] <mup> Bug #1626930 opened: Missing mount-observe slot in Core <snapd-interface> <Snappy:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1626930>
[09:28] <mup> Bug #1626930 changed: Missing mount-observe slot in Core <snapd-interface> <Snappy:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1626930>
[10:18] <oparoz> Hello guys. Is it or is it not possible to override seccomp by whitelisting syscalls? The documentation and tests in the snapcraft repo seem all wrong
[10:30] <oparoz> Was looking in the repo of the fork... So it seems everything is gone. Too bad
[10:49] <jacekn> hello. Im building snap and snapcraft prints warning: "grade" property not specified: defaulting to "stable". Where can I find documentation for this option? There is nothing here: http://snapcraft.io/docs/build-snaps/syntax
[10:51] <mup> PR snapd#1987 opened: daemon,overlord/assertstate: support streams of assertions with snap ack <Created by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1987>
[10:57] <ogra_> mvo, bah, crap, did you note what keyboard-configuration all pulled in alongside ? (initscripts, debconf, lsb-base ... ) we really need to cut that down again
[11:05] <morphis_> pitti: can you have a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~morphis/netplan/+git/netplan/+merge/306607 ?
[11:15] <pitti> morphis_: replied
[11:16] <morphis_> pitti: the service name is sadly nothing I can influence
[11:16] <morphis_> that is what snapd builds for it
[11:16] <morphis_> also to avoid intersections with other snaps
[11:16] <pitti> morphis_: right, hence adding Alias=
[11:16] <morphis_> pitti: sure but that is still something snapd need to get from somewhere
[11:17] <pitti> WDYM "get"?
[11:17] <morphis_> pitti: snapd creates the service unit on the fly
[11:17] <pitti> you just put it in the unit, and when it gets enabled, systemctl creates the alias symlink
[11:17] <morphis_> we don't ship it as part of the snap so we can't modify it
[11:17] <pitti> err
[11:18] <morphis_> so we would have to add another key in meta/snap.yaml which then gets parsed by snapd and added in the .service unit
[11:18] <pitti> if we are going to snap up core plumbing parts like NM, bluez, cups or whatnot, I suppose that's necessary indeed
[11:18] <morphis_> pitti: something to argue with niemeyer about
[11:18] <pitti> cluttering a lot of packages with snapd service aliases is a really bad design
[11:18] <morphis_> pitti: I am currently just searching for a way to replace networkd in our images with network-manager which comes from the snap
[11:47] <mup> Bug #1626986 opened: snapd should allows snaps to define systemd unit Alias names <Snappy:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1626986>
[12:00] <jdstrand> jacekn: I guess the documentation is out of date. grade can be one of stable or devel. aiui, if you set it to 'devel' it ensures it won't accidentally end up in the stable channel
[12:01] <jacekn> jdstrand: and can stable end up in devel?
[12:01] <jdstrand> jacekn: I think so
[12:02] <jdstrand> sergiusens: can you comment? ^
[12:05] <jacekn> jdstrand: sergiusens: I have some opinions here. For snapscraft.yaml building external code I have to maintain multiple branches with different "version" and "source-tag". This new options means yet another line that needs to be different between those branches
[12:06] <jacekn> jdstrand: sergiusens: so really IMO warning is an overkill, I'd prefer not to have that option at all
[12:06] <jdstrand> jacekn (cc sergiusens): we didn't design the feature. perhaps that would be a good question for the mailing list?
[12:07] <jacekn> jdstrand: ack and good point!
[12:07] <jdstrand> that way you'll get definitive answers on how things work and why
[12:07] <jdstrand> and I know they are always looking for real world feedback
[12:09] <qengho> lpotter: Your Pi (2? 3?) didn't display HDMI at boot? My pi3 did not either. I worry OG's "hdmi_safe" proposal isn't fixing the right thing. Want to help debug it?
[12:12] <ogra_> qengho, you mean you dont see anything after the first boot (i.e. after 5min) apart from the raspberries even with hdmi:safe set ?
[12:12] <ogra_> *hdmi_safe
[12:13] <ogra_> qengho, also, which image do you use and how big is your SD ... (the daily image is a lot smaller and will talke longer to resize on a big SD)
[12:17] <qengho> ogra_: correct, nothing displayed after 5 or 45, though I'm about to test scientifically and give you real data by end of day. I used the "release" images on a 32GB, fast microSD.
[12:17] <ogra_> well, that should resize in 2-3min max
[12:17] <ogra_> (likely faster)
[12:18] <ogra_> i really cant reproduce it here ... i always get the "please press enter" under the raspberries
[12:18] <qengho> ogra_: And I will want your help. I think the cmdline can have any number of console= lines. You could have serial AND tty0. I think.
[12:18] <qengho> But I can't test the serial one.
[12:18] <ogra_> no, then you dont get the actual boot data on serial
[12:19] <ogra_> the first console= arg is used for early boot ... the second one is switched to after the kernel ... i.e. initrd and following
[12:20] <ogra_> might be first and last (instead of first and second) if you have more than two ...
[12:21] <ogra_> during development it is essential that users can give us the full boot log when something hangs ... i'm happy to change defaults for final release but not while we require debug data
[12:24] <qengho> ogra_: In any case, perhaps that configuration tool can display on /dev/ttySwhatever AND /dev/tty0 .
[12:24] <ogra_> it does !
[12:24] <qengho> Oh. Hrm.
[12:24] <qengho> Then something is wrong.
[12:24] <ogra_> here at least ...
[12:24] <mup> PR snapd#1974 closed: snapd: kmod backend <Created by stolowski> <Merged by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1974>
[12:25] <qengho> ogra_: Okay, I'll test and let you know.
[12:25] <ogra_> systemd always starts one agetty on each console by default ... console-conf intercepts agetty and displays the "please press enter" message one them
[12:26] <ogra_> *on
[12:26] <ogra_> qengho, i also dont undersatnd why people want to use HDMI at all. given we do not allow any login except ssh anymore
[12:27] <ogra_> so defaulting to HDMI doesnt really make much sense
[12:28] <qengho> ogra_: You connect another computer and *its* display to the computer, instead of just a display? That's dumb. That's why.
[12:28] <ogra_> (having avahi and a network based conole-conf by default would make massively more sense)
[12:28] <qengho> Yes, so much. I need some zeroconf.
[12:29] <ogra_> well ... except that the image will then explode in size ... we're already way to big for embedded
[12:30] <qengho> ogra_: OTOH, if you have an old DEC VT220 you're plugging in directly, then I apologize.
[12:30] <ogra_> i just use the serial cable that was shipped with the board when i bought the "embedded developer" set
[12:30] <ogra_> :P
[12:32] <qengho> You sound scornful of it like you're saying "micro-" computer, and wisful of the days when a REAL computer took up several cubic meters. Computers get smaller. This is normal now. This is a real computer.
[12:32] <ogra_> qengho, you dont really expect people to attach a monitor to their NAS, AP, router, IoT controller, do you ?
[12:33] <ogra_> i'm not saying computer at all
[12:33] <qengho> ogra_: When it comes with a video card and more than one USB port, I think you have to stop pretending it's only a lawnmower device.
[12:33] <ogra_> we are targeting IoT here ... at most you will run a single purpose kiosk app in such a device
[12:34] <ogra_> when you use HDMI at all
[12:34] <ogra_> qengho, it isnt a desktop ... you wont actually use it as one ... beyond probably showing off to people that you can use it as such
[12:35] <ogra_> i definitely dont know anyone who actually uses a pi as their default desktop system, sorry
[12:36] <ogra_> i agree it makes sense to have HDMI for something like a kido system or any other single purpose kiosk setup thhough, no doubt here
[12:36] <ogra_> *kodi
[12:37] <ogra_> but after all our current target is IoT and embedded ... once we have a desktop session snap you will run on such a device you will also have a grephical firstboot tool to set it up ... and that wont run on the console at all
[12:38] <morphis_> ogra_: ping
[12:38] <ogra_> no need to ping me if i talked a line above ;)
[12:38] <ogra_> just ask :)
[12:39] <morphis_> ogra_: but you have the choice to pong when you're free :-)
[12:39]  * ogra_ pongs
[12:39] <ogra_> heh
[12:39] <morphis_> hehe
[12:39] <qengho> ogra_: there are many many millions of RPis sold, and very few are that "embedded kit" version. Throw away your serial cable and become one of the 99.99% of owners for a few days.
[12:39] <morphis_> ogra_: we put upgrade for netplan currently in the ppa to include them in the next core snap, right?
[12:40] <tachyons_> https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/blob/master/snapcraft/internal/indicators.py#L33 , This approach of finding content length using content length header is making probelm when using http compression
[12:40] <tachyons_> Eg github gist
[12:40] <tachyons_> Lazy to file a bug in launchpad :D
[12:40] <ogra_> qengho, yeah, its a sad fact that people picked a dead wood settopbox chip for that hype instead of something proper ...
[12:41] <ogra_> morphis_, https://launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/+archive/ubuntu/image/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=xenial
[12:41] <ogra_> needs to end up there
[12:42] <ogra_> morphis_, at least until pitti lands everything that netplan needs in xenial-updates proper :)
[12:43] <ogra_> (which i hope is the case for GA, we need to be able to build stable without the PPA)
[12:43] <pitti> ogra_: when is GA?
[12:43] <ogra_> pitti, uh, not sure ... several weeks ... jamiebennett knows exact dates
[12:43] <pitti> ogra_: I didn't yet backport it as we don't use netplan extensively yet, and thus it's still in the "find/add missing features" phase
[12:44] <tachyons_> sergiusens:  cc
[12:44] <pitti> ogra_: but we could certainly start to SRU the NetworkManager patches at least
[12:44] <jamiebennett> pitti: GA = 2016-11-03
[12:44] <pitti> thanks
[12:44] <ogra_> now thats exact :)
[12:44] <pitti> morning or afternoon? ☺
[12:44] <ogra_> *g*
[12:44] <jamiebennett> 23:59
[12:45] <jamiebennett> we need all the time we can ;)
[12:45] <pitti> PST
[12:46] <morphis_> ogra_: ok
[12:47] <morphis_> pitti: ok, once I give you the go for that patch we talked about can to bring the new netplan package into the snappy-dev ppa?
[12:47] <pitti> morphis_: it's your PPA, go wild :)
[12:47] <morphis_> pitti: not really mine :-)
[12:48] <pitti> it's not a long-term solution, but good enough for a beta/demo for sure
[12:48] <morphis_> pitti: its for sure not a demo, it goes into production
[12:51] <morphis_> pitti: but we can figure out a better solution and migrate to that at a later point
[12:51] <pitti> *nod*
[12:51] <pitti> and the PPA seems fine for those
[12:53] <pitti> morphis_: maybe the snap yaml doesn't even need to be explicit about these aliases -- I mean, you slurp in packages (or upstream builds) that already *have* the systemd and dbus .service files, so it could just scan those and automatically provide aliases (if explicit declarations are unwanted)
[12:54] <pstolowski> jdstrand, hey, thanks for the review of timedate control interface!
[12:55] <morphis_> pitti: yeah another option, something we need to discuss with niemeyer
[12:55] <ogra_> pitti, that would get tricky ... i have a bunch of snaps that use daemons, none of them can actually use their default init scripts or systemd units ... usually you need to re-define config paths and the like
[12:56] <pitti> but in general, I don't understand why you wouldn't just take upstream .service files as they are, and instead rewrite them
[12:56] <ogra_> so i doubt we could make that a generic thing
[12:56] <zyga> jdstrand: hey
[12:56] <pitti> well, then at least provide them under their original name
[12:56] <ogra_> because i need a wrapper that creates an initial config, in a non standard place for example
[12:56] <morphis_> ogra_: it would be just an alias we need to add to the files you say we're NetworkManager.service too
[12:56] <pitti> they aren't co-installable with the corresponding debs anyway
[12:57] <ogra_> pitti, hahaha ...
[12:57] <ogra_> (we have nothing that prevents this)
[12:57] <pitti> but it would just mean that dependencies, resource limitations, privilege reductions, aliases, etc. need to be duplicated in the yaml
[12:57] <mup> PR snapd#1988 opened: Allow system bus access for screen-inhibit-control <Created by afrantzis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1988>
[12:58] <pitti> but anyway, that's a SEP :)
[13:05] <jdstrand> zyga: hey-- so, how does leaving in hello-world cause ubuntu-core to get unmounted (ns discard latest commit). Or did I misread your comment?
[13:05] <jdstrand> pstolowski: you're welcome :)
[13:06] <zyga> jdstrand: it's not
[13:06] <zyga> jdstrand: I just started realizing what is the problem
[13:06] <zyga> jdstrand: I'm going to just get an ack from chipaca and release stuff
[13:06] <jdstrand> zyga: heh, ok, cause I was starting to get worried :)
[13:06] <zyga> jdstrand: it seems snapd is doing something crazy wrt cleanup now
[13:06] <zyga> jdstrand: ubuntu-core is unmounted mid tests when some cleanup task fires
[13:07] <jdstrand> zyga: ack. that is worrisome for other reasons, but glad that the ns discard wasn't causing it :)
[13:07] <zyga> jdstrand: I need a few more changes in snapd (to redesign the branch a little, move the task to other manager) and I got +1 to merge it
[13:07] <jdstrand> great :)
[13:09] <sergiusens> tachyons_ we have a bug for that
[13:10] <sergiusens> jdstrand I just answered an askubuntu question about grade around 30' ago
[13:11] <jdstrand> zyga: I see you merged that-- should you uncomment the hello-world bit too?
[13:11] <jdstrand> sergiusens: cool
[13:11] <zyga> jdstrand: I evicted that commit
[13:11]  * sergiusens goes back to writing unit tests
[13:11] <zyga> jdstrand: it's not commented out anymore
[13:12]  * sergiusens looks at joc_ and wonders how he got away with it ;-)
[13:12] <jdstrand> zyga: ok cool. I didn't see that commit, only the one saying you were merging. thanks
[13:14] <zyga> jdstrand: I rebased that commit away (the one that was commenting those bits out)
[13:27] <mup> PR snapd#1987 closed: daemon,overlord/assertstate: support streams of assertions with snap ack <Created by pedronis> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1987>
[13:35] <tachyons_> sergiusens:  link ?
[13:38] <sergiusens> tachyons_ https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapcraft/+milestone/2.19
[13:38] <om26er> Hello! Whats the update on diff based snap updates ?
[13:45] <mup> PR snapd#1989 opened: tests: build once and install test snap from cache <Created by fgimenez> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1989>
[14:07] <om26er> Whats the password for all-snap image ? After I added my launchpad email, I am not able to login.
[14:07] <sergiusens> SamYaple hey, I tried to this http://paste.ubuntu.com/23220251/ on an unpatched snapcraft and was able to do this http://paste.ubuntu.com/23220246/ (I am not sure how to expose the current .pth bug)
[14:07] <sergiusens> om26er only ssh
[14:07] <sergiusens> ssh in and set a passwd if you must
[14:08] <ogra_> "sudo passwd $USER" after you sshed in ...
[14:08] <sergiusens> ogra_ obviously :-P
[14:08] <om26er> sergiusens, hmm, I think I can't remember my IP
[14:09] <sergiusens> om26er cannot help you there
[14:09] <ogra_> sergiusens, well, yu could just try "passwd" which wont work ...
[14:09] <om26er> IP for the virt manager machine
[14:09] <sergiusens> nmap might
[14:09] <ogra_> so not *that* obvious
[14:09] <sergiusens> ogra_ because current passwd is unset/unkown
[14:09] <ogra_> yeah
[14:09] <sergiusens> and sudo does the trick
[14:09] <ogra_> right
[14:12] <om26er> ogra_, sergiusens I am in. Had to re create the VM to know my IP :)
[14:29] <zyga> jdstrand: there's a chance that the test failures we saw are caused by https://github.com/snapcore/snap-confine/blob/master/spread-tests/regression/lp-1599608/task.yaml
[14:30] <zyga> exactly how I cannot explain yet
[14:47] <morphis_> ogra_, pitti: so who should upload https://code.launchpad.net/~morphis/netplan/+git/netplan/+merge/306607 as a patch to netplan to the snappy ppa?
[14:52] <ogra_> mvo, slangasek, hmm, the small image size made resize2fs take significantly longer :/
[14:52] <ogra_> i wonder why ...
[14:53] <ogra_> (the 128GB card i currently use used to resize in 1-2 min before ... now its 10min and counting with a daily image)
[14:58] <mup> PR snapcraft#823 closed: plainbox-provider plugin: rewrite python shebangs <Created by sergiusens> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/823>
[15:01]  * ogra_ goes and tries the beta image instead
[15:01] <SamYaple> sergiusens: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23220481/
[15:03] <sergiusens> SamYaple ah, so it is python2 that has the issue, got it
[15:03] <ogra_> bah
[15:03] <ogra_> resizes instantly
[15:03] <ogra_> that wasnt even 20sec
[15:05] <ogra_> i guesss that means that creating images at minimal size complicates resizing
[15:05] <ogra_> :(
[15:06] <SamYaple> sergiusens: for dogpile.cache, yes python2 is the issue
[15:06] <slangasek> ogra_: er... impressive?
[15:06] <SamYaple> sergiusens: but its on a per project bases. this same thing can happen on python3
[15:06] <ogra_> slangasek, why ?
[15:06] <SamYaple> *basis
[15:07] <slangasek> ogra_: 10 minutes to resize?  It shouldn't matter that it's on 128GB.  But I'm assuming you don't want us to revert the change to make the image small ;)
[15:07] <ogra_> slangasek, i assume with the minimal size the blocksize is not exactly a multiple of 512 or some such
[15:07] <ogra_> slangasek, well, i gave up after 15min ... not sure how long it would actualyl have taken
[15:07] <ogra_> but using the 3.8GB big beta image resizes absolutely instantly
[15:08] <ogra_> slangasek, oooh, and since i'm testing on the dragonboard ... i'm now glaring since 2min at "Contacting server..."
[15:08] <ogra_> o this slowness seem to not be arch specific at all
[15:08] <ogra_> *so
[15:08] <ogra_> *eems
[15:08] <ogra_> bah !
[15:10] <ogra_> (right after i typed that the screen changed, but even on the dragonboard it is slow at the user setup tep)
[15:11] <ogra_> hmm, but why is the resize so slow, there are no errors in the resize log
[15:11] <ogra_> (apart ffrom the one when i ripped out the card it seems resize2fs was chugging along happily)
[15:19] <mup> PR snapcraft#822 closed: Don't filter .pth files in python plugin <Created by SamYaple> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/822>
[15:20]  * ogra_ rolls an image with extra added empty space
[15:25] <elopio> cwayne: you did atom, right? Can you help me with an electron snap?
[15:29] <cwayne> elopio: yep, sure
[15:29] <elopio> cwayne: I'm getting Error: spawn electron ENOENT
[15:30] <elopio> have you seen that? I'm trying adding electron to node-packages, but I have no idea what I'm doing.
[15:30] <cwayne> elopio: hm, not seen that, i had to usee a custom plugin to just call scripts that atom had, so there wasnt really much dealing with electron itself
[15:31] <elopio> the docs don't help much, but I clearly have nothing called electron in my prime directory. Let's see how it goes.
[15:31] <ogra_> slangasek, i must admit in the light of resize times that go into the 20min area (even with an image i made look like one of the former ones) i'm tending to say we should perhaps build them in 1GB size steps instead of "as small as possible" ... this is definitely not suitable
[15:32] <oparoz> Can the snap web install beta apps?
[15:32] <oparoz> ...which are using devmode
[15:33] <ogra_> mvo, where is the ubuntu-image patch you used to create the 3.8GB betas (you obviously didnt use the latest from trunk but also not the default 4GB one)
[15:34] <ogra_> (and i cant see any change related to this in your github tree either)
[15:34] <slangasek> ogra_: or, if you think this is part of it, we can tune our mkfs.ext4 options to adjust block size / cluster size / bytes per inode / inode size
[15:35] <slangasek> ogra_: maybe you want to experiment with those and see which flags might make a difference to the speed?
[15:36] <mvo> ogra_: its not pushed, but its just 4Gb->3.9Gb, i can push the diff if you need it
[15:36] <ogra_> slangasek, well, something makes the old images do instant resize ... and even the ones that mvo built as betas which dont use your latest change
[15:37] <ogra_> mvo, that would be great ... i want the dailies to not take hours while people like qengho wait for something on HDMI ;)
[15:37] <ogra_> i guess *that* is the actual problem
[15:37] <ogra_> (regarding the console= discussion)
[15:37] <slangasek> ogra_: yes, so since you have a case where you can reproduce slow resize (is this on the BBB?), can you tweak the ext4 filesystem when you build it and see what does or doesn't improve the speed?
[15:38] <ogra_> slangasek, thats the dragonboard ... but i bet we'll have iot on all images
[15:38] <slangasek> ogra_: I don't have a 128GB SD card to reproduce this with
[15:38] <ogra_> (i test the bbb with a 4GB card ... the resize is neglectable there)
[15:38] <ogra_> slangasek, well, a 256GB one will do as well :P
[15:38] <slangasek> ogra_: also, 'tune2fs -l' output on the filesystem after the resize is done, please
[15:39] <ogra_> ok, will do
[15:53] <mup> PR snapd#1990 opened: many: allow use of the system user assertion with create-user <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1990>
[15:56] <abeato> ogra_, why might I see this error when doing "snap prepare-image"? :
[15:56] <abeato> error: cannot fetch and check prerequisites for the model assertion: assertion not found
[15:57] <ogra_> how does your assertion look like ?
[15:57] <abeato> ogra_, http://paste.ubuntu.com/23220732/
[15:58] <ogra_> hmm, looks fine
[15:58] <ogra_> and you specified the path to it correctly in the ubuntu-image command line ?
[15:59] <abeato> ogra_, yes, this it the command that fails:
[15:59] <abeato> $ sudo snap prepare-image --channel=beta --extra-snaps=network-manager_1.2.2-5_armhf.snap --extra-snaps=modem-manager pi3.model /tmp/tmpqfqroa0f/unpack
[15:59] <abeato> pi3.model is in the folder
[16:00] <ogra_> what is /tmp/tmpqfqroa0f/unpack supposed to be
[16:00] <abeato> ogra_, the actual command that is executed is:
[16:00]  * ogra_ has actually never used snap prepare-image directly ...
[16:00] <abeato> $ sudo /snap/bin/ubuntu-image --channel beta --extra-snaps network-manager_1.2.2-5_armhf.snap --extra-snaps modem-manager -o pi3.img pi3.model
[16:01] <abeato> ogra_, but in the end what fails is the prepare-image step
[16:01] <ogra_> hmm
[16:02] <ogra_> does it work if you call it completely without --extra-snaps ?
[16:02] <abeato> no, not in that case either
[16:03] <ogra_> did you try with edge yet instead of beta ?
[16:03]  * ogra_ wonders if self signed assertions somehow block building from non-edge
[16:03] <abeato> ogra_, let me try
[16:06] <elopio> alright, now I don't get any errors. But also I don't get any window :(
[16:06] <elopio> any electron expert around?
[16:07] <abeato> ogra_, I have
[16:07] <sergiusens> elopio check if one of the threads is crashing (font-config for example), glib/gtk makes many assumtions and doens't fail cleanly
[16:07] <abeato> ubuntu-core          16.04.1    423  canonical  -
[16:07] <abeato> doing
[16:07] <abeato> $ sudo snap install --channel=edge ubuntu-core
[16:07] <abeato> error: cannot install "ubuntu-core": snap "ubuntu-core" already installed
[16:08] <abeato> is that fine?
[16:08] <ogra_> abeato, i thik 423 is the last stable
[16:08] <elopio> sergiusens: ok, how do I check that?
[16:08] <elopio> I have nothing about fonts or gtk, but I can copy them from atom
[16:09] <abeato> ogra_, how do I install a new one? "sudo snap install --channel=edge ubuntu-core"does not work
[16:09] <sergiusens> elopio strace in a snap shell
[16:09] <ogra_> abeato, hmm, whats the error, it should
[16:09] <elopio> ok! I've never done that, let me find the instructions.
[16:10] <abeato> error: cannot install "ubuntu-core": snap "ubuntu-core" already installed
[16:10] <abeato> ogra ^^
[16:10] <ogra_> abeato, though edge is quite brave, i'd go with beta
[16:10] <ogra_> weird
[16:10] <ogra_> thsi is how i got mine onto edge back then
[16:11] <abeato> hm...
[16:11] <ogra_> but that should have no influence on ubuntu-image
[16:12] <abeato> ogra_, ah... I must use "refresh" instead of "install" when installed, even when trying to use a different channel :)
[16:13] <ogra_> ah
[16:13] <abeato> 660 rev
[16:13] <ogra_> yeah, beta is fine :)
[16:14] <ogra_> geez ... this resizing thing is insane ... still going ...
[16:14] <ogra_> i wonder why i havent hit it earlier
[16:18] <elopio> sergiusens: am I doing this right? https://paste.ubuntu.com/23220881/
[16:18] <elopio> it just  seems to do nothing.
[16:19] <mup> PR snapd#1991 opened: overlord,store: clean up serial-proof plumbing code <Created by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1991>
[16:23] <mup> PR snapd#1992 opened: overlord/state: introduce cleanup support <Created by niemeyer> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1992>
[16:27] <ogra_> YAY !!!
[16:27] <ogra_> so this was 50min for the resize
[16:28] <ogra_> finally it moved
[16:28] <mup> PR snapd#1993 opened: snap: move/clarify Info.Broken <Created by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1993>
[16:32] <ogra_> slangasek, http://paste.ubuntu.com/23220928/
[16:32] <ogra_> slangasek, also, confirmed that resizing is slow on pi3 with the small images
[16:33] <slangasek> ogra_: thanks.  interesting, you have there a block and fragment size that's smaller than what I saw locally in a pi2 image... which way did you create this with ubuntu-image? the snap, the yakkety deb?
[16:33] <slangasek> (or is this the official image?)
[16:34] <ogra_> slangasek, trunk calling ./ubuntu-image
[16:34] <slangasek> ogra_: against what release?
[16:34] <slangasek> are you using xenial or yakkety e2fsprogs?
[16:34] <ogra_> on a xenial host with tghe PPA ext2fsprogs version installed
[16:34] <slangasek> ok
[16:35] <sergiusens> elopio track the forks and make it output to separate files, much easier
[16:36] <ogra_> i havent checked an actual image yet, i'll do some builds with workdir so i can inspect the img files on the weekend ... currently my machine is busy actually re-building the dailies
[16:36] <elopio> sounds easy, let's see if stackoverflow knows how to do it.
[16:39] <ogra_> slangasek, oh, and here is the resize log http://paste.ubuntu.com/23220950/
[16:39] <slangasek> ogra_: ok.  your block size, fragment size, blocks per group, fragments per group are all smaller than what I have in the last pi2 image I created here, *with* the size minimization; so that's definitely something different, I'll see if I can reproduce this
[16:41] <mup> PR snapcraft#824 opened: Add `snapcraft create-key` <Created by cjwatson> <Conflict> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/824>
[16:41] <slangasek> ogra_: you said "the PPA" for e2fsprogs... which ppa? I don't see e2fsprogs in snappy-dev/image or snappy-dev/tools
[16:41] <ogra_> slangasek, and the resize code http://paste.ubuntu.com/23220956/ ... perhaps i'm doing something unsuitable here
[16:42] <ogra_> slangasek, your ubuntu-image ppa :)
[16:42] <slangasek> ogra_: I think the problem is in your initial fs creation, which doesn't match the one we had here and that yes, will have poorer performance (not just during resize, but overall)
[16:42] <slangasek> ogra_: ok, I didn't assume you were using our ppa ;)
[16:42] <elopio> sergiusens: https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapcraft/+bug/1583259 can we have that in the next milestone?
[16:42] <mup> Bug #1583259: Snappy needs to influence environment variables in applications  <snap-desktop-issue> <verification-done> <Canonical Click Reviewers tools:Fix Released by jdstrand> <Snappy Launcher:Invalid> <Snapcraft:Triaged by sergiusens> <Snappy:New> <click-reviewers-tools (Ubuntu):Fix Released>
[16:42] <mup> <click-reviewers-tools (Ubuntu Xenial):Fix Released> <click-reviewers-tools (Ubuntu Yakkety):Fix Released> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1583259>
[16:43] <ogra_> well, i didnt want to blindly install the yakkety package here :)
[16:43]  * zyga has unexpected guests for the past two hours, sorry for being laggy
[16:43] <ogra_> zyga, how dare you to have a social life !
[16:44] <slangasek> ogra_: that should definitely give me enough to try to reproduce the problem here, thanks.  One last thing, could you kpartx -a the original image and tune2fs -l that as well, just to confirm that the weird block sizes are in the source image?
[16:44] <slangasek> ogra_: and are you using the official pi2 model assertion for this or another one?
[16:44] <ogra_> slangasek, yeah, waiting for my machine to be done with the image build, then i'll do the kaprtx
[16:45] <ogra_> slangasek, official but you are looking at dragonboard data there
[16:45] <ogra_> not pi2
[16:45] <ogra_> thje only non-official assertion i use is the bbb one
[16:46] <zyga> ogra_: well, social life friends just flew in from spain, on their way elsewhere, with night overlap through warsaw :)
[16:46] <zyga> ogra_: when stuff is on fire like it feels now I don't like having a social life TBH
[16:47] <ogra_> zyga, well, you are around til 10pm on normal days and start at 8 ... and hang around here on weekends ...  if friends come you should simply end your day
[16:47] <zyga> ogra_: .... are you saying I should re-consider having a social life for a change
[16:47] <ogra_> at times :)
[16:48] <zyga> ogra_: I'd like to, at least, finish the week knowing that I know how the fire started
[16:48] <zyga> ogra_: otherwise I will just think about it all the time anyway
[16:48] <ogra_> well, go and do the fire inspection then :)
[16:49] <zyga> ay :)
[16:50] <oparoz_> Does snap web work? Is there documentation for it? Can it install beta snaps? Does it support devmode?
[16:51] <ogra_> slangasek, http://paste.ubuntu.com/23220991/ for the kpartx bit
[16:51] <zyga> oparoz_: I know some people have been working on it again lately
[16:51] <zyga> oparoz_: perhaps jamiebennett knows better
[16:52] <oparoz_> Thanks zyga. I'm trying to figure out how to push new apps to users of the Nextcloud Box. I'm guessing the only way right now is to tell them to use SSH?
[16:53] <zyga> oparoz_: push as in remotely install?
[16:53] <zyga> oparoz_: I didn't try lately, does snapweb do anything useful after being installed?
[16:53] <oparoz_> zyga, Well, more as in making it available somewhere so that they can push a button and install it
[16:54] <oparoz_> zyga, I saw this screenshot and want my snaps to be on there: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/09/22/rocket-chat-a-new-snap-is-landing-on-your-nextcloud-box-and-beyond/
[16:56] <mup> PR snapcraft#825 opened: Release changelog for 2.18.1 <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/825>
[16:56] <zyga> oparoz_: I think that's just the store, if your app is in the store and has the right meta-data it will show up like that in snapweb
[16:56] <zyga> oparoz_: I know there's been a lot of work put into snapweb, I don't know if it is released as stable though
[16:57] <oparoz_> zyga, thanks. I just don't understand how users will get to see that page with their installed snaps. I never had to register to be able to install snaps
[17:07] <kyrofa> zyga, oparoz__ I think snapweb is only in edge right now. elopio or lool might know more
[17:08] <oparoz__> So basically, the screenshot in that article is something which cannot be used by Box' at this stage
[17:08] <oparoz__> kyrofa, or can you get this view by SSHing and manually connecting the Box to the store?
[17:09] <oparoz__> And then install Snaps on the box via the store's "Add more snaps"
[17:09] <kyrofa> oparoz__, yeah, SSH in and try this: `sudo snap install --edge snapweb`
[17:10] <oparoz__> OK, done.
[17:10] <kyrofa> oparoz__, I don't remember what port it's on... I want to say 4200
[17:10] <oparoz__> :D
[17:11] <kyrofa> netstat will help
[17:11] <oparoz__> you were correct :)
[17:12] <oparoz__> kyrofa, unfortunately, it only lists stable snaps, so not very useful :(
[17:12] <oparoz__> I mean to ask users to help test snaps
[17:13] <kyrofa> oparoz__, yeah, stable snaps are the only ones that are easily discoverable in the store
[17:13] <kyrofa> oparoz__, like what?
[17:13] <oparoz__> transmission
[17:14] <oparoz__> But I guess it also filters by arch... and I haven't created the armh yet
[17:15] <oparoz__> But snap web will be very cool once stable
[17:16] <kyrofa> Yeah it'd be ideal to be able to say "show me unstable snaps" or something
[17:16] <oparoz__> kyrofa, yeah, or just pick the minimum level of stability
[17:17] <oparoz__> I'm OK with stable and beta per example
[17:17] <kyrofa> Yeah, checkboxes for "show me these channels" even
[17:17] <oparoz__> Especially since we can't put devmode snaps in stable
[17:34] <mup> PR snapd#1977 closed: interfaces/builtin: add network-setup-observe interface <Critical> <Created by morphis> <Merged by niemeyer> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1977>
[17:44] <attente> kyrofa, elopio, hi
[17:44] <elopio> hello attente o/
[17:44] <attente> :)
[17:45] <attente> i'm having issues with getting the integration test for the jhbuild plugin working under travis-ci
[17:45] <mup> PR snapd#1991 closed: overlord,store: clean up serial-proof plumbing code <Created by pedronis> <Merged by niemeyer> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1991>
[17:46] <attente> mostly because the tests are run as a root user in a docker instance
[17:46] <mup> PR snapd#1980 closed: tests: more debug around the create-key test <Created by mvo5> <Closed by niemeyer> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1980>
[17:46] <attente> but i also saw that the cleanbuild integration test that also uses lxc is specifically disabled
[17:47] <attente> so i'm wondering if that's ok to do for the jhbuild plugin test as well
[17:49] <attente> basically i'm in a world of hurt trying to get it working under root when it's only meant to be run unprivileged
[17:54] <kyrofa> attente, hey there!
[17:54] <kyrofa> attente, I don't know the specific answer to your question, but note that the launchpad builders all run as root as well. Ideally plugins would work under root
[17:54] <sergiusens> attente I've been meaning to ask, how does your jhbuild plugin going to work when we switch to containers by default to build most things?
[17:55] <elopio> attente: I thought it used lxc.
[17:55] <sergiusens> elopio he's thinking lxc inside docker
[17:56] <attente> sergiusens: yeah... i didn't realize that was the plan. you're switching to lxc containers? there's some support for nesting i believe?
[17:56] <sergiusens> attente yes there is
[17:57] <sergiusens> attente I am just waiting for the network setup dilemma in lxd to be solved
[18:06] <elopio> sergiusens: https://paste.ubuntu.com/23221212/ Here's my strace. I see many errors, but I'm not sure what I'm looking for.
[18:06] <elopio> It seems bad that many things in electron/dist are not found.
[18:07] <mup> PR snapd#1983 closed: ctlcmd: add snapctl get <Created by kyrofa> <Merged by kyrofa> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1983>
[18:27] <jdstrand> zyga: fyi, https://bugs.launchpad.net/snap-confine/+bug/1626019/comments/2
[18:27] <mup> Bug #1626019: Docker snap cannot start containers in Classic (but does in Core) <Snappy Launcher:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1626019>
[18:29] <mup> PR snapcraft#826 opened: Do not depend on Content-Length when Content-Encoding is gzip <Created by tachyons> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/826>
[18:34] <lool> kyrofa: snapweb >> beta + edge actually (beta images, beta snapweb) - but I think it could happily be promoted
[18:34] <kyrofa> lool, awesome!
[18:35] <kyrofa> lool, would be great to have it in stable
[18:36] <lool> kyrofa: yeah; I wish it wasn't too late to ping mvo about it, but I'm totally +1 on it; we could promote it monday
[18:36] <lool> kyrofa: I'll be at Linaro Connect next week (Vegas), if you get the chance to discuss this with him, that'd be lovely
[18:36] <lool> I can do it, but I wanted to touch base with mvo before doing so
[18:36] <kyrofa> lool, making a note now, you got it
[18:36] <lool> s/can do it/can do the actual promotion/
[18:36] <lool> <3
[18:37] <kyrofa> lool, I'll tell him you +1d it but wanted to double check with him first
[18:37] <lool> yeah
[18:37] <lool> thanks a ton
[18:37] <kyrofa> Sure thing. Good luck at linaro!
[18:38] <mup> PR snapcraft#825 closed: Release changelog for 2.18.1 <Created by sergiusens> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/825>
[19:10] <lpotter>  qengho, ogra_ wait what? we dont allow normal console login on rpi?!?
[19:12] <qengho> lpotter: We do! We do. Or, rather, we should. We want to.
[19:14] <lpotter> I see the rpi as a convergent device, instead of mobile/desktop, its convergent embedded/desktop :)
[19:14] <qengho> lpotter: If it doesn't give a config prompt on the display that is built-in, it is a bug.
[19:14] <qengho> lpotter: I'm trying to figure out details of it now.
[19:15] <jdstrand> lool: fyi, https://github.com/jdstrand/docker-snap/tree/snappy-interfaces (updated snapcraft.yaml for new interfaces) and https://github.com/jdstrand/docker-snap/tree/workaround-lp1626019 (make docker work on classic)
[19:15] <lpotter> qengho: whats the login password?
[19:16] <jdstrand> lool: the 2nd has everything from the first. You'll still want to upload in devmode I think until snapd with docker/docker-support lands in xenial-updates, but hopefully this helps
[19:17] <qengho> lpotter: there is no password.
[19:17] <qengho> lpotter: did you configure?
[19:19] <qengho> lpotter: Your username is probably your launchpad id. l-p
[19:19] <lpotter> I might need to reflash. never got to see the configure screen at first boot. shut it down, changed cmdline.txt
[19:20] <lpotter> ahh,ok. so it sets up the user, and no user ubuntu now?
[19:20] <nacc> lpotter: yeah, i think that's correct
[19:21] <jdstrand> zyga: fyi, see the trello card and bug #1626019. I thought there was some talk with you and st graber on cleaning up mountinfo so that it only head relevant entries-- if that happened I suspect docker would work without the workaround. that said, with the workaround I think the urgency is not world-burning any more
[19:21] <mup> Bug #1626019: Docker snap cannot start containers in Classic (but does in Core) <Snappy Launcher:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1626019>
[19:21] <jdstrand> ratliff, tyhicks: ^
[19:23] <slangasek> ogra_: in case you didn't see the mail, https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/ubuntu-image/pull/65 awaits your testing
[19:23] <mup> PR CanonicalLtd/ubuntu-image#65: Avoid wrong block sizes for an fs we'll resize on first boot anyway <Created by vorlonofportland> <Merged by warsaw> <https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/ubuntu-image/pull/65>
[19:26] <tachyons_> "CompressionError: unknown compression type 'xz' " I am getting this error when I am trying to install snapcraft
[19:26] <tachyons_> I installed lzma package , But no luck
[19:27] <nacc> tachyons_: installing snapcraft where?
[19:27] <tachyons_> nacc: my laptop
[19:27] <tachyons_> ubuntu 16.04 , 64 bit
[19:27] <nacc> tachyons_: sorry, the release is what i meant, i assume `apt install snapcraft` ?
[19:28] <tachyons_> nacc:  sorry , while installing from github
[19:28] <nacc> tachyons_: ah
[19:29]  * nacc doesn't know about that, unfortunately
[19:29] <nacc> but you wouldn't need lzma but xz-utils, iirc
[19:30] <slangasek> tachyons_, nacc: /usr/lib/python3.5/lzma.py is part of libpython3.5-stdlib, stock in 16.04; sounds like a corrupted python install?
[19:32] <nacc> yeah, seems weird either way
[19:33] <tachyons_> nacc: I installed xz-util too
[19:33] <nacc> tachyons_: hrm, strange! as slangasek said, it should 'just work', sorry -- you'd have to dig into what is reporting that error
[19:34] <tachyons_> I have libpython3-stdlib installed , should install 3.5-stdlib too ?
[19:35] <nacc> tachyons_: libpython3-stdlib depends on libpython3.5-stdlib
[19:35] <tachyons_> https://paste.gnome.org/p3gijqva3
[19:35] <nacc> ah
[19:35] <nacc> locally compile python?
[19:35] <nacc> *compiled
[19:35] <tachyons_> seems like error is from python2.7 , Is it an issue with pip ?
[19:35] <tachyons_> nacc: No !
[19:36] <nacc> tachyons_: you might need 'python-lzma'
[19:36] <nacc> for 2.7 support
[19:37] <tachyons_> nacc: Already instaled , no luck
[19:38] <slangasek> python2.7> none of this should be using python2
[19:38] <tachyons_> I am a ruby guy  and don't have much idea about python ecosystem :-)
[19:38] <slangasek> don't know how you got things into a state that python2.7 is involved
[19:39] <nacc> slangasek: that was goign to be my next q
[19:39] <nacc> tachyons_: snapcraft is python3 based afaict
[19:39] <nacc> https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/blob/master/HACKING.md seems to refer to only python3 deps
[19:39] <tachyons_> slangasek:  Error message showing python 2.7 , that is why I asked about that
[19:40] <tachyons_> I copied steps from Hacking.md
[19:40] <kyrofa> tachyons_, you might consider simply installing snapcraft, which will pull in the right deps, then just run from source
[19:41] <slangasek> yes, that is the shortest path to get you going with snapcraft on 16.04
[19:41] <slangasek> however, I am worried that these python2 errors imply you have damaged your 16.04 system
[19:41] <nacc> tachyons_: why is your pip local to your user?
[19:42] <tachyons_> kyrofa:  I already have working snapcraft installed from repo , But I need snapcraft sourcecode for some hacks
[19:43] <kyrofa> tachyons_, right, I understand. I'm just saying snapcraft from source and snapcraft in the archive typically have the same deps
[19:43] <kyrofa> tachyons_, you could use build-dep if you have source archives enabled, too
[19:44] <tachyons_> One doubt , command is pip3 is python3 and pip is for python2, right ?
[19:44] <qengho> ogra_: have you ever booted your RPi3 with release image without your serial attached?
[19:46] <slangasek> tachyons_: you seem to be right about that, indeed - so HACKING.md ought to be updated
[19:48] <kyrofa> tachyons_, yeah, you can probably safely ignore the HACKING.md. Just make sure the right deps are installed and run path/to/src/bin/snapcraft directly
[19:48] <kyrofa> No need to install it in a venv, etc
[19:49] <tachyons_> replaced pip with pip3 , Now it is working
[19:49] <tachyons_> Thanks
[19:50] <mup> Bug #1627175 opened: RPi3 with only HDMI attached never shows subiquity <Snappy:New> <subiquity (Ubuntu):New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1627175>
[19:50] <qengho> lpotter: Check this bug to see if it matches your experiences. ^
[19:51]  * qengho afk a while.
[20:17] <mup> PR snapd#1993 closed: snap: move/clarify Info.Broken <Created by pedronis> <Merged by niemeyer> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1993>
[20:44] <dduffey> lool, slangasek how do you turn off autopilot ... I am using  custom kernel (for a demo) and the autopilot it causing it to loose the network
[20:44] <dduffey> I used to do "snappy config", but I don't see a "snap config"
[20:45] <lool> dduffey: you cant
[20:45] <lool> dduffey: config was not readded yet for series 16
[20:55] <mup> PR snapd#1992 closed: overlord/state: introduce cleanup support <Created by niemeyer> <Merged by niemeyer> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1992>
[20:58] <mup> PR snapd#1989 closed: tests: build once and install test snap from cache <Created by fgimenez> <Merged by niemeyer> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/1989>
[21:49] <zyga> jdstrand: I'll check that card next week; what I remebmer about this is that we now properly detach the old root but because old root is still visible we cannot really umount or detach anything else
[21:51] <zyga> jdstrand: offtopic, this branch was there to test if the unexpected unmount of the core snap is caused by the test that was fiddling with cgroups: https://github.com/snapcore/snap-confine/pull/152
[21:51] <mup> PR snap-confine#152: Disable failing test <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snap-confine/pull/152>
[21:51] <zyga> jdstrand: but as you can see, it failed
[21:51] <zyga> jdstrand: I'll run another pass in qemu locally (I'll switch to linode next) to try to capture syslog and snap changes when this happens
[21:51] <zyga> jdstrand: but it also means that I don't reall know what is causing this to fail
[21:58] <zyga> dduffey: you can disable the snapd.refresh.timer perhaps
[21:58] <zyga> dduffey: (systemd level timer)
[23:11] <evgenijmalanov> What i can inistall .snap files ( Ubuntu Touch device
[23:12] <evgenijmalanov> .. What i can inistall .snap files ( for Ubuntu Touch device) on desktop
[23:20] <qengho> evgenijmalanov: I don't understand what you want.
[23:28] <mup> PR snapcraft#827 opened: Support setting build targets in the maven plugin. Make the maven plu… <Created by evandandrea> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/827>
[23:57] <oparoz> Does "refresh" pick up changes in the beta channel?


[09:10] <mapreri> .. go trust ubuntuone...
[09:10] <mapreri> you lost an image here: https://blog.launchpad.net/general/launchpad-javascript-now-combo-loaded-and-faster-than-ever
[10:54] <cjwatson> mapreri: https://web.archive.org/web/20140402093057/http://blog.launchpad.net/general/launchpad-javascript-now-combo-loaded-and-faster-than-ever has it, but I can't edit the old post
[10:54] <cjwatson> wgrant: ^-


[09:36] <hvn2> Hi, I've built a kernel on Ubuntu 12.04 using make-kpkg for ARMv7 armhf with omap3, but the target tells the kernel is not omap architecture. How can I make sure the kernel is built for omap3, apart from configuring the kernel as such ? I already used --subarch=armhf and tried  --subarch=omap3
[15:40] <sre-su1> Hi! How can I use pygtk on ubuntu-arm?
[17:29] <grant__> Will any ARM boards play 1080p smoothly with open-source video drivers?
[20:07] <hrw> grant__: allwinner ones will
[20:08] <hrw> grant__: during devconf.cz I saw A10 playing 1080p video with audio
[22:07] <grant__> hrw: which video drivers do they use?


[00:03] <pragmaticenigma> sybariten: would think that .bash_history might be able to help with that
[00:04] <sybariten> pragmaticenigma: that's the command history?
[00:06] <pragmaticenigma> yes
[00:07] <pragmaticenigma> sybariten: so with something like `grep ^z .bash_history` I'd think you'd be able to get a listing of what was executed. And there's probably a way to remove all but the most recent instance of any given line
[00:08] <pragmaticenigma> probably `grep '^z ' .bash_history` would be more precise
[00:09] <kubast2> Yeah after an upgrade to 23.10 there's no issues with plasma-discover crashing with an active flapak repo
[00:10] <pragmaticenigma> I thought zoxide looked pretty cool at first, but I go to too many random locations, and didn't think the way it presented options when given ambiguous paths
[00:13] <sybariten> pragmaticenigma: bash command history != bash pwd history
[00:15] <pragmaticenigma> sybariten: I'm aware... but all the commands issued to zoxide can be greped out from there. Unless you're looking for the full expanded paths that zoxide emitted.
[00:18] <sybariten> pragmaticenigma: i'm not sure i follow... i'm looking for the visited directory locations (paths). Like a history. Exactly like a shell history, but with locations instead
[00:19] <pragmaticenigma> I think we're thinking the same things... I'm just not articulating the idea well
[00:20] <pragmaticenigma> zoxide doesn't have an export feature of what it's executed. I was suggesting that maybe bash history could help in that, except you would only see the command `z foo` that you entered, not the fully expanded/qualified path to the destination.
[00:21] <tomreyn> a bash history record such as "cd .." or "cd $HOME" would not return what was the absolute path at the time, but that's (I'm guessing) what sybariten is looking for.
[00:21] <pragmaticenigma> ships crossing in the night tomreyn :)
[00:24] <pragmaticenigma> sybariten: I think you have a very good idea for a feature request
[00:25] <tomreyn> i'm guessing that auditd could record and provide such information
[00:27] <sarnold> oof that's a heavyweight tool for that :)
[00:28] <tomreyn> yes. but... is there something smaller which provides absolute paths and isn't easily falsified?
[00:32] <sarnold> I wonder if you could get notified of /proc/pid/cwd updates?
[00:33] <tomreyn> inotify :)
[00:33] <sarnold> yeah, does it work for these magiclinks?
[00:34] <tomreyn> i never tried
[00:43] <sybariten> pragmaticenigma: well it does have a query command and i'm suspecting that this could be helpful
[03:04] <jadeia> Quick question on upgrading - can I go from 23.10 > 24.01 LTS without a re-install?
[03:05] <jadeia> or do I have to stay on LTS?
[03:10] <xangua> Yes you can
[03:10] <xangua> 24.04.1
[03:12] <jadeia> Perfect - I thought so, wanted to confirm. Sorry yep messed up that Ver number.
[03:12] <jadeia> Thank you xangua
[03:13] <jadeia> Prob going to hop to the LTS so I can check out Gnome46 and then go back to the quicker release version when it comes out. Very excited for this release of Ubuntu.
[04:29] <andymandias> you can download a deb from https://www.google.com/chrome/
[05:48] <bind> http://explorer.net.ru/share/20%20years.png منذ 20 عاما... توصلنا إلى رمز "الرقم السري" ، فهذا يعني النزاهة
[08:04] <|N3on21|> Hello world - I am having some problems when streaming video (youtube) music (spotify) my audio drops out for two sec. and then gets back.... it is starting to get on my nerves now. My setup is a labtop with a dockingstation (usbc) and a external monitor from where i would like to get my audio output from. Any ideas where to look ?
[08:24] <eleve_> salut
[09:34] <ice9> how to paste text in Vinagre remote desktop viewer? or do you recommend another VNC client what can do that?
[09:39] <brian__> yes
[09:39] <stenno> vnc itself doesn't really allow for that iirc
[09:39] <stenno> it's basically an interactive picture of the screen
[09:39] <brian__> Yeaah I recommend that
[09:40] <brian__> I have a question
[09:40] <stenno> the price for platform independence, would be my guess
[09:40] <stenno> no pm please
[09:42] <stenno> ...
[09:54] <Guest71> Hi, I am running ubuntu 23.10. When executing `apt upgrade`, I see the results `The following packages have been kept back: gir1.2-mutter-13 libmutter-13-0 mutter-common mutter-common-bin`. Why?
[09:55] <jeremy31> Guest71: Likely phased updates
[09:59] <Guest71> jeremy31: thanks a lot. I just googled. So updates to a subset of users? Everyone will eventually updated those packages when it releases to everyone. is that right?
[10:01] <lotuspsychje> !phasedupdates
[10:04] <Guest71> ok, got it. thanks.
[10:06] <Guest71> Another issue is I have met three times that ubuntu windows manager or UI? broke. There is nothing I can do. The only thing I can think of is to reboot. Black screen. I am not sure what the cause is. Maybe because I suspended my laptop for multiple times? or maybe because I ran virtualbox at the same time when I suspend? The system (or the UI
[10:06] <Guest71> system) breaks randomly. I never shutdown my laptop before. But now, ubuntu 23.10 forces me to reboot it in several days.
[10:09] <Guest71> I don't know what broke. I used the word windows manager or UI. maybe wayland?
[10:09] <Guest71> ctrl+alt+f1 and then relogin, does not bring the UI back.
[10:09] <Guest71> normally, I do ctrl+alt+f3 and then login in text mode and then sudo reboot.
[10:10] <lotuspsychje> if you mean gnome shell Guest71 check your /var/crash dir see if crashes exist there
[10:12] <Guest71> lotuspsychje: there are two files in that dir.
[10:13] <lotuspsychje> what are the called
[10:13] <Guest71> _usr_bin_file-roller.1000.crash
[10:13] <Guest71> _usr_lib_virtualbox_VirtualBoxVM.0.crash
[10:13] <lotuspsychje> no gnome shell crash then
[10:13] <Guest71> two files are created today. 20 minutes differences between them.
[10:14] <Guest71> But the system only broke once today.
[10:14] <lotuspsychje> but you mentioned virtualbox issue
[10:14] <Guest71> two more times in other days.
[10:14] <Guest71> I guess might because of virtualbox. I don't know. just a wild guess.
[10:15] <Guest71> no glue. broke randomly.
[10:15] <Guest71> mayeb caused by chrome. Because I am opening youtube at that time.
[10:16] <lotuspsychje> Guest71: maybe checkout your full journal logs to see what happened
[10:17] <Guest71> lotuspsychje: thanks for the help. Gotta go now. I will check the log later today.
[10:17] <lotuspsychje> kk
[10:17] <lotuspsychje> good luck
[10:18] <loswedseded> will nmcli connection set wlp2s0 down disable automatic wifi activation after booting permanently?
[10:42] <nteodosi> loswedseded, that is not a valid command for nmcli.
[12:19] <xx> is this official? https://github.com/jspw/Ubuntu-Launcher
[12:19] <xx> it has ubuntu in the name
[12:28] <loswedseded> what command can I use to disable automatic wifi activation after booting permanently?
[12:29] <CosmicDJ> xx: anything official is under https://github.com/ubuntu/ or the main web site
[12:29] <xx> can some app even use 'ubuntu' in the name, legally, if it's not made by ubuntu?
[12:36] <loswedseded> would this work with ubuntu 23.10? https://askubuntu.com/questions/1445221/permanently-disable-network-interface-in-ubuntu-22-04
[12:36] <loswedseded> Im about to copy that code and delete the default config
[12:36] <loswedseded> talking about: network: version: 2    ethernets:        interface:            activation-mode: off
[12:37] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:38] <loswedseded> join #ubuntu-offtopic
[12:44] <CosmicDJ> xx: please talk to a lawyer if you have legal questions
[12:48] <xx> CosmicDJ: I mean, my lawyer said I can even create a linux distro called Ubuntu, using all the official branding, because I'm not in a jurisdiction where canonical could do anything. So that doesn't really help.
[13:10] <pragmaticenigma> xx: If you're talking with a lawyer, you should continue to ask them these kinds of questions. This is a community channel run by volunteers. Very few, if any, here are able to speak on behalf of Canonical. If you really want the authoritative answers to your questions, you should probably direct your questions to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[13:22] <sia_> xx: Why you may wanna want to use the name ubuntu
[13:29] <ogra_> loswedseded, you might want to use rfkill to turn off the wifi chip altogether ...
[13:33] <xx> sia_: because 'Ubuntu App' sounds better than 'App for Ubuntu'
[13:34] <sia_> Sure but with a different meaning. As the first one can mean ubuntu itself which is an app.
[13:34] <loswedseded> ogra_, but then I can restart it with sudo ip link set wlp2s0 up and sudo systemctl start NetworkManager.service, right?
[13:37] <ogra_> loswedseded, you might need to call "rfkill unblock all" before that
[13:38] <loswedseded> ogra_, does this command survive rebooting?
[13:39] <ogra_> not sure, it should (it is the backend of what you know as "airplan mode")
[13:39] <ogra_> but better try it first 🙂
[15:06] <pycurious> What is a good solution to backup a running ubuntu machine to a state (say ./backup now "mystate"). Then I can say (./restore from "mystate") - and reboot the machine. And I want the ubuntu to roll back to the backup state? Is there an easy to use and reliable solution to this problem?
[15:07] <leftyfb> run it in a VM or container
[15:07] <pycurious> I need a VM - which VM ? Virtualbox doesnt pass through
[15:08] <leftyfb> "doesnt pass though"   what do you mean?
[15:09] <pycurious> I cant run VM or container, because I cant find an easy to use solution for multiple GPUs to pass through them.
[15:09] <pycurious> that is why I'm looking for a bare-metal solution for the problem
[15:09] <leftyfb> pycurious: why do you need to "roll back"?
[15:10] <pycurious> leftyfb: Why do you have to reinstall a machine from scratch? To reset the state?
[15:11] <leftyfb> pycurious: I do that maybe every 2 years or so to get onto the latest LTS release. I reinstall Ubuntu from scratch and then run an ansible playbook that brings my machine back to the state I prefer it in and restores my files from backup
[15:12] <pycurious> @leftyfb I'm testing a software on this machine - which needs a lot of installs. I currently do it in the cloud by creating a new machine from scratch every hour. I want to reduce the cost and do it in my own machine.
[15:12] <leftyfb> you pay for GPU's in the cloud?
[15:12] <pycurious> https://github.com/bryansteiner/gpu-passthrough-tutorial/ - this is what i've to go through - if i want to do it in a VM
[15:13] <pycurious> @leftyfb can we go back to the problem - is there a backup/restore cli that is easy to use on ubuntu, that can reset state?
[15:14] <leftyfb> not in the way you think, that I'm aware of or suggest
[15:14] <leftyfb> is your software graphical or can it be run on a server?
[15:15] <pycurious> @leftyfb its running on an ubuntu server- and it needs testing. I need ubuntu to be in the original state to test it.
[15:15] <leftyfb> so run your tests in containers
[15:16] <leftyfb> lxc launch ubuntu:23.10 mynewcontainer
[15:16] <leftyfb> you can spin those up in under a minute (depending on internet speed) or create snapshots of them
[15:17] <pycurious> @leftyfb The software spins 10 of those - so testing needs more than a container. Docker inside docker is painful, especially when it has to deal with multiple GPUs. Can we go back to my original problem?
[15:18] <leftyfb> lxc/lxd != docker  and no, it's not difficult to run docker containers in lxd
[15:19] <pycurious> Does lxc pass through multiple GPUs easily?
[15:19] <leftyfb> you mentioned doing all this in the cloud but haven't confirmed whether or not you're paying for GPU time for your application testing
[15:20] <leftyfb> https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/gpu-data-processing-inside-lxd#1-overview
[15:20] <preach> nothing passes through GPUs "easily" to my knowledge
[15:20] <leftyfb> specifically https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/gpu-data-processing-inside-lxd#6-add-your-gpu-to-the-container
[15:20] <leftyfb> it's 1 command to pass through GPU to a container
[15:21] <preach> I've always had to change kernel parameters and initramfs config to even attempt it
[15:21] <leftyfb> not needed here
[15:21] <preach> why not
[15:21] <pycurious> Can an lxc container run 10 docker containers? some of which need gpu, and some of which don't?
[15:21] <preach> lol what kind of questions are these
[15:21] <leftyfb> 10 docker containers, sure. GPU within docker, if you can accomplish that on bare metal, then yes
[15:22] <pycurious> @preach iommu/vi-flags/… - there is a bunch of things you've to setup before you can do gpu's pass through. That 1 command assumes you've done all that - which is not that bad! The problem is the containers don't play nice with containers inside them.
[15:22] <leftyfb> sure they do
[15:23] <leftyfb> lxc config set mynewcontainer security.nesting=true
[15:23] <preach> pycurious: I figured they were trivializing it somehow
[15:23] <leftyfb> dobne
[15:23] <leftyfb> done*
[15:23] <leftyfb> I run docker in multiple containers
[15:23] <pycurious> @leftyfb Thanks! I did not know that lxc containers can run docker containers inside them easily - that might work - will have to investigate that route.
[15:24] <leftyfb> https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/how-to-run-docker-inside-lxd-containers#1-overview
[15:25] <leftyfb> I usually set security.nesting=true and security.privileged=true
[15:25] <pycurious> @leftyfb how do i enable 3 gpus inside a lxc container?
[15:27] <leftyfb> pycurious: I don't know, but fiddling around with https://documentation.ubuntu.com/lxd/en/latest/reference/devices_gpu/ you might be able to sort it out
[15:27] <pycurious> @leftyfb can you help me setup a gpu baremetal (ubuntu host) that can do lxc container with docker containers inside it? I do need to kill that container and repawn it everyday :)
[15:28] <leftyfb> do you? You asked about "rolling back". Can you spin it up, create a snapshot and restore the snapshot every day?
[15:29] <leftyfb> pycurious: I've literally given you the exact 4 commands you need to spin up a container, configure it to allow docker and add a GPU. Since I've never added multiple GPU's to a container, I don't know how to do that. I have given you the documentation for it though. You can always ask for help in #lxd as well.
[15:30] <pycurious> @leftyfb I was thinking of lxc can do this - then my problem is solved ? I can just create and destroy that container - unless i am missing anything?
[15:30] <leftyfb> you can, but it seems overkill when you have snapshots built in already
[15:30] <leftyfb> up to you if you want to do more work
[15:32] <pycurious> @leftyfb I think docker does not see the gpus that lxc passes - there are issues there for nvidia - that need to be sorted out
[15:34] <leftyfb> I see no reason why docker running in an lxd container server with gpu passed through to the container wouldn't see the gpu if docker running on bare metal can see the gpu
[15:34] <ogra_> you dont "enable" anything in lxd containers ... lxd is a hypervisor, it shares the HW with the host
[15:35] <ogra_> if your host has 3 GPUs the lxd containers should have access to them
[15:36] <leftyfb> ogra_: what's the link I posted above for then?
[15:36] <leftyfb> (I've never cared about the gpu with containers)
[15:37] <ogra_> i know people using it with multiple GPUS and to my knowledge it just worked for them ... (but i have no first hand knowledge, that much is true)
[15:38] <leftyfb> yeah, sure enough
[15:38] <leftyfb> root@mantic:~# lspci|grep -i vga
[15:38] <leftyfb> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Raptor Lake-P [Iris Xe Graphics] (rev 04)
[15:38] <leftyfb> that's a container I just spun up on my laptop
[15:39] <ogra_> yeah
[15:40] <pycurious> I just downloaded my first lxc ubuntu image - still havent spun the container - soon :)
[15:40] <leftyfb> uh
[15:41] <leftyfb> pycurious: https://canonical.com/lxd/install
[15:41] <leftyfb> I would follow that
[15:41] <ogra_> sudo lxd init --auto; lxc launch ubuntu:22.04 jammy; lxc shell jammy ...
[15:41] <ogra_> or that 🙂
[15:41] <leftyfb> right
[15:42] <leftyfb> I don't follow this "I jsut downloaded my first lxc ubuntu image"
[15:42] <leftyfb> they just use cloud images
[15:42] <ogra_> (oh, the last two might need a re-login to pick up the new group membership)
[15:42] <leftyfb> nah
[15:42] <leftyfb> worked fine for me
[15:42] <ogra_> ah, good then
[15:43] <leftyfb> I rebuilt this laptop about a month ago and this is the first time I've run the lxc command on it
[15:43] <ogra_> (i mainly use lxd on UbuntuCore nowadays ... there a little tinkering is needed for the groups stuff)
[15:43] <leftyfb> yeah, I have some custom networking I do with them sometimes
[15:46] <pycurious> @leftyfb https://dpaste.org/FvAsb - can you tell me how i get nvidia-smi inside this lxc container?
[15:47] <pycurious> nvidia-smi works on the host OS
[15:47] <leftyfb> pycurious: you undo everything you did up till this point and follow the suggestions and instructions I gave you instead
[15:48] <leftyfb> pycurious: I suggested to use lxd, not lxc. It's a bit confusing because the "lxc" command is named as such
[15:48] <leftyfb> pycurious: if you want help with lxc, you'll need to /join #lxc. I haven't used that in many years
[15:49] <pycurious> wow! Sorry for bombing this with one character!
[15:49] <leftyfb> pycurious: otherwise, you can use lxd and follow the documentation I've provided you already which takes you step by step on how to accomplish most, if not everything you're asking for
[15:49] <pycurious> Trying to remove what i did
[15:49] <leftyfb> the documentation I provided is for lxd, not lxc
[16:00] <pycurious> @leftyfb This time I'm following this one https://canonical.com/lxd/install - and apt update doesnt go through - networking issue - how do i resolve that?
[16:01] <pycurious> the last command doesnt work on that page
[16:01] <pycurious> lxc exec ubuntu-container -- apt-get update
[16:02] <leftyfb> pycurious: login to the container "lxc shell ubuntu-container"
[16:04] <pycurious> lxc-ls --fancy ==> Nothing running. lxc shell ubutu-container ==> Instance not found!
[16:04] <pycurious> lxc exec ubuntu-container -- apt-get update ==> it did run this and gave me a bunch of errors
[16:04] <leftyfb> pycurious: which instructions tell you to run lxc-ls ?
[16:05] <pycurious> When it gave me instance not found - I thought I would run lxc-ls to see if anything was running. I guess that does not list ubuntu-container? There is another command for that?
[16:06] <leftyfb> pycurious: which instructions tell you to run lxc-ls ?
[16:06] <pycurious> I ran it on my own - did that kill what i was running?
[16:07] <leftyfb> please close and disregard any instructions that mention "lxc-ls" as they are for lxc and not lxd
[16:07] <leftyfb> pycurious: lxc list
[16:07] <pycurious> that one shows ubuntu-container running
[16:07] <leftyfb> lxc shell ubuntu-container
[16:07] <pycurious> This time when i ran lxc shell ubuntu-container -> it worked!
[16:08] <leftyfb> because you spelled it correctly this time
[16:08] <pycurious> apt update inside does not work - connection time out issues
[16:08] <leftyfb> does the container have an ip address?
[16:08] <pycurious> @leftyfb Thanks!
[16:08] <pycurious> I selected "auto" in lxd init - for both ip4/6 - not sure about that
[16:08] <preach> why use lxc over docker?
[16:09] <leftyfb> preach: lets not
[16:09] <preach> ?
[16:09] <leftyfb> pycurious: does your container have an ip address?
[16:09] <pycurious> @preach its "lxd"
[16:10] <pycurious> @leftyfb lxc list does show an ip - both 4 and 6
[16:10] <preach> I must be missing something
[16:10] <preach> it was just a question
[16:10] <leftyfb> pycurious: do you know how to check the ip address in linux from the command line?
[16:12] <pycurious> # hostname -I —> <IP_ADDRESS> fd42:1c12:43ac:b675:216:3eff:fe5f:a46f
[16:12] <leftyfb> ip a # would be a better way, but sure
[16:13] <leftyfb> how about the ip of the lxbr0 interface on your host?
[16:13] <pycurious> @leftyfb LXD containers can be spun using vagrant using a plugin - have you ever used that? Can I try that?
[16:13] <pycurious> inet <IP_ADDRESS>
[16:13] <leftyfb> I haven't used vagrant. I don't see how that would help anything here
[16:13] <leftyfb> pycurious: can you ping .1 from the container and vice versa?
[16:18] <leftyfb> pycurious: I prefer to get things working and more importantly, understood before I introduce additional tools which layer on top which are meant to "simplify" the original goal which was already pretty simple to begin with
[16:18] <pycurious> ping <IP_ADDRESS> - works from the container - no issues there
[16:18] <leftyfb> pycurious: can you ping .1 from the container     and vice versa?
[16:19] <pycurious> @leftyfb from both host and guest - ping <IP_ADDRESS> - works
[16:20] <leftyfb> vice versa means can you ping the guest ip (which isn't .1) from the host?
[16:21] <pycurious> both pings work : From Host:  ping <IP_ADDRESS> - works
[16:22] <leftyfb> pycurious: on the guest: resolvectl status|grep "DNS Servers"
[16:24] <pycurious>  DNS Servers: <IP_ADDRESS>
[16:25] <leftyfb> pycurious: and running "apt update" on the guest is timing out?
[16:26] <ogra_> do you have docker installed on that machine alongside ? IIRC docker does mangle a lot of firewall rules unasked and unannounced that could break stuff
[16:26] <pycurious> yes
[16:26] <pycurious> to both questions - docker is installed and running. and apt update doesnt work
[16:27] <ogra_> https://github.com/docker/for-linux/issues/103
[16:27] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Issue 103 in docker/for-linux "Docker blocking network of existing LXC containers" [Open]
[16:27] <ogra_> see this
[16:27] <leftyfb> pycurious: on the host run this: sudo iptables -P FORWARD ACCEPT
[16:27] <leftyfb> then try running apt update on the guest
[16:28] <ogra_> right
[16:28] <ogra_> (docker is such a mess ... i never understood how it got so popular)
[16:29] <pycurious> ogra_: are lxd containers better than docker?
[16:29] <ogra_> (... but so got VHS videotapes ... so i should not be surprised 🙂 )
[16:29] <leftyfb> pycurious: they each have their uses for different purposes
[16:30] <ogra_> pycurious, well, depends, i mean docker is probably a tad more lightweight than lxd since it does not even run an init system inside the containers, they have a different focus
[16:31] <pycurious> @leftyfb - isnt that a security issue -> sudo iptables -P FORWARD ACCEPT - maybe we should be more targetted towards the host lx interface?
[16:31] <leftyfb> no
[16:31] <arkanoid> hello! how can I configure which DNS my ubuntu should use? I have a single interface eth0, which is configured by dhcp to use 3 dns servers, first is local, second is <IP_ADDRESS>, third is <IP_ADDRESS>. When I ping local name, ubuntu resolves it using <IP_ADDRESS> instead of the first DNS server. The server works if I do "dig localname @localserver"
[16:32] <leftyfb> arkanoid: if you need local resolution, don't assign public nameservers via DHCP
[16:32] <arkanoid> leftyfb: this is not how dns works
[16:32] <leftyfb> arkanoid: configure DHCP to only assign your local DNS server which should then forward external requests as needed
[16:32] <arkanoid> there's a primary, a secondary, and so on
[16:32] <leftyfb> arkanoid: this is 100% how DNS works
[16:33] <leftyfb> arkanoid: false
[16:33] <leftyfb> arkanoid: primary and secondary is for failover of multiple DNS servers which all resolve that same way in case one or more of them is completely down.
[16:34] <arkanoid> leftyfb: then why ubuntu picks secondary if primary is up and running?
[16:34] <leftyfb> DNS queries do not query multiple nameservers until it finds a record. That is not how DNS works
[16:34] <leftyfb> arkanoid: that's not how DNS works
[16:34] <leftyfb> arkanoid: configure DHCP to only assign your local DNS server which should then forward external requests as needed
[16:35] <arkanoid> this does not answer question why ubuntu queries servers not in the order specified
[16:35] <pragmaticenigma> arkanoid: it's not an ordering, that's what being conveyed
[16:35] <leftyfb> multiple nameservers are not an order, they are queried randomly and only 1 is ever hit
[16:36] <arkanoid> really? I'm pretty sure I've read the opposite on a manual. I might be wrong, let me search for it.
[16:36] <arkanoid> btw thanks, if that is not an ordered list, this explains everything
[16:36] <leftyfb> it's a big misconception that there's idea of "primary and secondary" nameservers configured on clients. It's wrong
[16:37] <leftyfb> there's another misconception that a DNS query will hit multiple nameservers until it gets a hit. That's also wrong
[16:38] <leftyfb> a query will ask 1 nameserver, if it responds with anything, that's the answer you get, transaction is now complete
[16:38] <leftyfb> sorry, let me rephrase
[16:39] <leftyfb> there's another misconception that a DNS query will hit multiple nameservers until it gets a valid resolution. That's also wrong
[16:39] <arkanoid> then what is the point of configuring multiple DNS server into a DNS client?
[16:39] <leftyfb> in case 1 is down
[16:39] <plastikman> the only way a resolver "fails over" is if the first in the list fails to respond
[16:39] <leftyfb> it will hit one of the 2 randomly, if the one it hits is completely inaccessible, then it will hit the next one
[16:40] <plastikman> The way I solved this in the past was to put a reverse proxy in front of my DNS servers so there was multiple behind a VIP
[16:40] <leftyfb> if one responds and says "I have no idea what that hostname is", then that is the end of the transaction
[16:40] <arkanoid> got it, so there's the implicit assumption that the two dns server respond with same anwers
[16:40] <plastikman> and just so yuo know, its always DNS
[16:40] <arkanoid> thanks for the clarification
[16:40] <leftyfb> arkanoid: exactly
[16:41] <leftyfb> if they respond with different answers, you get intermittent failures and is usually because you configured DNS on the client incorrectly
[16:43] <leftyfb> plastikman: it's almost never DNS. It's usually someone's misconception or misconfiguration of DNS :)
[16:44] <plastikman> lies!
[18:00] <plastikman> Im kidding of course, but many times people blame DNS when its a resolver quirk or assumptions of resolvers.  anyway...
[19:25] <whoami> Hi - not sure where best to ask about ufw, so I'm doing it here. Please let me know if there's a better spot. I'm writing docs for a product, and trying to give instructions for ufw. With iptables, we install the following two rules to allow forwarded traffic, and return traffic: iptables -I FORWARD 1 -i enp5s0 -o defined1 -m conntrack --ctstate RELATED,ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT / iptables -I FORWARD 2
[19:25] <whoami> -i defined1 -o enp5s0 -s <IP_ADDRESS>/24 -d <IP_ADDRESS>/24 -j ACCEPT
[19:25] <whoami> With ufw, this seems to work: ufw route allow in on defined1 out on enp5s0 from <IP_ADDRESS>/24 to <IP_ADDRESS>/24
[19:26] <whoami> However, I'm somewhat surprised when I run iptables -vnL, I don't see a conntrack rule for return traffic. Is this expected?
[19:28] <whoami> Hm, I see `ufw-before-forward` has a generic rule from `/etc/ufw/before.rules` which seems to cover this case: -A ufw-before-forward -m conntrack --ctstate RELATED,ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT
[20:27] <pragmaticenigma> whoami: if you're still looking for some help, #networking may be a good community to reach out to
[20:28] <whoami> thanks :) my question is mostly about ufw behavior (whether ufw route allow creates a rule for reverse traffic / whether that is the intention of the default rule), but perhaps there are some people familiar with ufw over there.
[20:29] <whoami> i'll give that a go tomorrow morning perhaps. appreciate the suggestion
[20:29] <pragmaticenigma> whoami: ufw is uncomplicated firewall ... all I could say is that by design it's supposed to be approachable more for a consumer level, rather than enterprise.
[20:30] <pragmaticenigma> I personally don't know what your iptables rule does, to me it's a magic encantation that I'd hope is accurate
[20:30] <pragmaticenigma> I use ufw with my main focus being opening and closing ports
[20:31] <whoami> yeah, i understand. it does have support for forwarding though, so i don't think i'm doing anything it's incapable of.
[20:31] <whoami> as it happens, there are customers who would like to use it.
[20:31] <pragmaticenigma> there always is :)
[20:31] <whoami> and fwiw, it is working in practice, i just want to make sure my understanding is correct :)
[20:32] <plastikman> I feel like both UFW and other tools like it start to get murky after you stop being simple
[20:33] <whoami> as all networking seems to... heh.
[20:34] <pragmaticenigma> whoami: totally encourage you to verify your theory. it makes me happy to know there's someone such as yourself that is going that extra mile :)
[20:48] <arraybolt3> If UFW is Uncomplicated FireWall, I don't even want to see what CFW (Complicated FireWall) looks like...
[20:49] <plastikman> that is called iptables
[20:49] <arraybolt3> lol, right... yeah that really is a mess
[21:28] <JanC> UFW is for doing uncomplicated things, not for making complicated things uncomplicated or something like that  :)
[21:29] <JanC> if you want to do things that UFW wasn't designed to do, you should look for an alternative
[21:44] <SnoopJ> The copy of `perf` provided by `linux-tools-6.5.0-18-generic` is apparently built without `libtraceevent`. I'm relatively comfortable with building my own, but wondering what I need to do to get the appropriate kernel sources to do that. The sources provided `linux-source-6.5.0` do not seem to include `tools/perf`
[21:44] <SnoopJ> (alternatively, if there's a way to ask Ubuntu to give me a more useful copy of `perf`, I'd welcome that advice too)
[21:45] <elhoir> any 6.5.x kernel from upstream should be fine (the higher version the better)
[21:46] <elhoir> you just have to get config from the installed one and you`re done
[22:16] <SnoopJ> does that mean that Ubuntu itself cannot provide me the non-mangled source that goes with my installed kernel? :(
[22:17] <JanC> SnoopJ: with "apt source" you can get the source package of any binary package
[22:17] <JanC> (no need for sudo!)
[22:18] <oerheks> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-video-radeonhd/plain/README
[22:18] <oerheks> get it from git?
[22:18] <oerheks>    git://anongit.freedesktop.org/git/xorg/driver/xf86-video-radeonhd
[22:19] <SnoopJ> JanC, is that supposed to work for `linux-tools-6.5.0-18-generic`? It doesn't work for me, it picks `linux-hwe-6.5` instead and then fails.
[22:19] <JanC> because that's the source package
[22:19] <oerheks> oops wrong window
[22:19] <JanC> one source package often builds several binary packages
[22:20] <SnoopJ> I'm afraid I don't speak Debianese well enough to unpack that into a next step
[22:25] <SnoopJ> Maybe Debian/Ubuntu are sufficiently opinionated about breaking this workflow that going upstream is just the Best Way™
[22:27] <oerheks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libtraceevent/+bug/2051916
[22:27] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Launchpad bug 2051916 in libtraceevent (Ubuntu) "[MIR] promote libtraceevent as a trace-cmd dependency" [Undecided, Incomplete]
[22:27] <oerheks> add yourself?
[22:30] <SnoopJ> I would like to solve this problem on a timeline that does not depend on sitting on my hands until a maintainer fixes it
[22:30] <oerheks> old one https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/2019247
[22:30] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Launchpad bug 2019247 in linux (Ubuntu) "perf should be compiled with libtraceevent" [Undecided, Confirmed]
[22:30] <SnoopJ> right, I saw that one when trying to search up a solution
[22:38] <crobi> hello! I'm having some strange issues with pulling from archive.ubuntu.com  the /Ubuntu directory keeps recurring over and over about 20+ directories deep.  is that normal?  I'm noticing it on the eu mirror as well.
[22:39] <oerheks> if you keep clicking ubuntu ... http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/
[22:39] <oerheks> have fun
[22:39] <leftyfb> crobi: that's not how you're supposed to "pull" from the repo
[22:40] <leftyfb> crobi: don't do that
[22:40] <crobi> yeah the problem is I'm trying to install 20.04 and the installer is not able to see the mirror
[22:40] <leftyfb> why are you installing 20.04 over 22.04?
[22:40] <crobi> sorry poor choice of words, I'm not pulling anything
[22:41] <crobi> dependencies for ROS noetic is why 20.04
[22:42] <leftyfb> crobi: please pastebin the error you are getting
[22:43] <crobi> I'm on my phone unfortunately this system is on a different network.
[22:43] <leftyfb> ok, feel free to ask for help when you are in a position to troubleshoot the machine in question
[22:44] <crobi> gimme a sec transcribing the error
[22:45] <crobi> "bad archive mirror.  additional details in /var/log/syslog"  I checked the logs and it's not able to resolve the mirror.  the weirdness is that the installer was able to resolve it earlier during the install.
[22:46] <leftyfb> please pastebin /etc/apt/sources.list
[22:47] <crobi> I don't have net-tools available so I can't check much beyond pinging the mirror
[22:47] <crobi> which it cannot resolve.
[22:47] <crobi> oh sorry network connection is bad so messages are coming in sporadically
[22:48] <crobi> I don't seem to have a sources.list in /etc/apt
[22:49] <leftyfb> then you aren't running ubuntu or have modified it in an way that is not recommended and probably causing your issues
[22:49] <preach> lol
[22:50] <leftyfb> crobi: do you have any files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ ?
[22:50] <crobi91> anyway I appreciate the help, my cell signal is cutting out too much I'll try again next week
[22:50] <sarnold> heh, is the bad network connection why you couldn't resolve the name?
[22:51] <leftyfb> "bad archive mirror" is not a failure to resolve
[22:51] <crobi91> probably but the system in question is on a different network in my lab, I'm on LTE with my cell
[22:51] <leftyfb> and a lack of a sources.list shows it's either not ubuntu(not official anyway) or modified in a way that is likely causing the issue
[22:52] <leftyfb> crobi91: this should be your /etc/apt/sources.list https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/wQ7g5yV3Yn/
[22:52] <crobi91> mmk good to know I'll bug the vendor some more and see if they will be able to offer suggestions
[22:52] <leftyfb> you can probably leave out the partner repo
[22:54] <oerheks> original can be found in /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/sources.list
[22:54] <leftyfb> or that
[22:54] <leftyfb> mine is much cleaner though :)
[22:54] <oerheks> indeed, original has no universe enabled
[22:54] <leftyfb> which causes a lot of people grief
[22:55] <preach> where is the code that copies that file to /etc/apt
[22:57] <leftyfb> the apt package does it
[22:57] <preach> where?
[22:57] <leftyfb> preach: somewhere in the source code for the apt package
[22:57] <leftyfb> you are welcome to go through it:  apt source apt
[22:59] <preach> I'm looking here: https://github.com/Debian/apt/tree/main/debian
[22:59] <preach> but I don't see it anywhere
[23:00] <sarnold> that's not the package source, that's some old snapshot of the upstream git tree
[23:01] <preach> last commit last week is old?
[23:01] <preach> and why wouldn't it be in there either way?
[23:02] <leftyfb> preach: why do you need to know?
[23:02] <preach> I've always wanted to know and it has come up in conversations several times recently with different people
[23:03] <preach> wanting to know how sources.list is generated and how it gets put there
[23:03] <leftyfb> preach: I pulled down the apt source and used grep and it looks to me like it might be in apt-2.4.5/dselect/setup
[23:03] <preach> but the ask anyone has come up with is that the /usr/share file _looks_ like the stock one, but I haven't seen any proof that it is the exact same
[23:03] <sarnold> preach: (a) I was just going by the banner at the top " This repository has been archived by the owner on Dec 12, 2022. It is now read-only. " (b) it's still just some github clone and it isn't the package source :) apt-get source apt
[23:05] <preach> I'm not on an ubuntu machine
[23:05] <preach> and why would the github source be different than the package source?
[23:05] <leftyfb> :/
[23:05] <preach> and even if it was, why would the same code in question not be there in one and only in the other?
[23:05] <preach> makes no sense
[23:06] <leftyfb> preach: feel free to ask in #debian or the maintainer of that git tree
[23:07] <oerheks> what package provides  /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/sources.list and /usr/share/keyrings/*
[23:07] <oerheks> apt i bet
[23:08] <oerheks> i never installed apt though
[23:09] <sarnold> preach: ah, you should have said that first :)
[23:11] <sarnold> preach: there's a dozen supported versions of apt https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt and you can click through to grab the tarballs of upstream sources and ubuntu patches from them all. if you've got dget on your system, dget https://something/path/to/apt.dsc  will download the other files for you, and it can even unpack the sources if you give it the right command line arguments
[23:13] <szstr> mega good luck to all ayn this channel withaynout 2 minutes withayn/within 20 minutes
[23:13] <sarnold> hey szstr, do keep the sillyness to #ubuntu-offtopic please :)
[23:14] <szstr> yes no no no yes, sir
[23:14] <sarnold> thankya :)
[23:58] <szstr> i don't like ubuntu, but i do like that kubuntu 23.10 has: yt-dl3, it needs kwrite, could use abiword, needs C/C-- runners/konguilerz, we need a web sergher gui-auto-aynstaller aynstaller, mantis ayz/is a good nickname,


[03:07]  * zmoylan-1i listens to bird tweeting outside...
[03:07] <daftykins> :)
[03:07] <daftykins> it's that time again!
[03:08] <ball> Is the sky lightning up in the East?
[03:10] <zmoylan-1i> nope, probably a street light has the bugger confused
[03:16] <mappps> morning
[03:16] <ball> Mornin'
[03:16] <mappps> timeto watch the new ep of silico valley
[03:16] <mappps> hooray
[03:17] <ball> I've never seen it.
[03:17] <daftykins> nor me
[03:17] <mappps> itspretty funny imo
[03:17] <mappps> geeky and a bit ott at times
[03:17] <daftykins> exciting times ahead!  Could also be something battery powered, though that seems less likely.
[03:25] <mappps> hmm marble flooring dunno how thick floors are
[03:25] <mappps> its annoying as though
[03:25] <ball> Any pressurised containers?
[03:26] <mappps> nop
[03:26] <ball> Does the laptop have a spinning disk or an SSD?
[03:26] <mappps> nevermind man gonna leae it for now
[03:26] <mappps> disk
[03:26] <ball> Could be bearings in the disk or fan.
[03:27] <ball> Which reminds me, I need to order another 12cm fan.
[06:32] <popey> Morning
[06:32] <Switches> Morning popey
[07:03] <knightwise> good morning everyone
[07:06] <Switches> heya knightwise
[07:15] <knightwise> how are you guys doin
[08:55] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:58] <Switches> Hey brobostigon
[08:59] <brobostigon> hi Switches
[09:17] <popey> yo
[09:17] <brobostigon> morning popey
[09:58] <Switches> Hmm there is no sysvinit-core in ubuntu then :(, guess I'll have to do a wipe and put debian on here. meh
[09:59] <popey> that's a touch extreme
[10:00] <Switches> Well that's what I thought, but can't seem to find sysvinit anywhere in ubuntu, Upstart is there, but from what I know thats no longer being maintained?
[10:01] <popey> we moved to systemd
[10:01] <popey> (like debian)
[10:01] <Switches> Yeah, but debian has a preseed command that can install with sysvinit rather than systemd
[10:02] <popey> i doubt we will support that in ubuntu
[10:03] <Switches> Yeah, shame really, I liked upstart a lot more than systemd (which seems to get more like a virus on Windows every day lol)
[10:03] <Switches> popey doesn't the phone still use upstart? or is that switching aswell?
[10:07] <popey> it uses both systemd and upstart
[10:07] <popey> upstart for the user session currently
[10:07] <popey> it will switch when we go to systemd
[10:07] <Switches> ahh right
[10:19] <SuperEngineer> Can y'all stop typing systemd when I'm watching The Simpsons please.  I keep reading it as systemdoh!
[10:21] <SuperEngineer> [systemd is now known as systemnotdoh]  ;-)
[12:06]  * penguin42 does the meta-sunday yawn
[12:07] <zmoylan-pi> hmm no james for fact of the day on a weekday... fires up dos app... 'joan of arc burnt at the stake (1431)'
[12:19] <SuperEngineer> what was wrong with stakes 1 to 1430?
[12:19] <zmoylan-pi> failed quality control
[12:20] <SuperEngineer> :)
[12:20] <zmoylan-pi> or the vampire infestation created a bit of demand...
[12:20] <SuperEngineer> lol
[12:28]  * SuperEngineer fires up "Chill Zone" playlist and slides into bath too much info?]  bfn :-)
[14:34]  * daftykins joins penguin42 in the great yawnening
[14:53] <diddledan> Yey for bonk holidays
[14:53] <daftykins> :)
[14:54] <daftykins> i'm genuinely surprised about something with my new desktop build, somehow it's able to boot EFI with secure boot on, despite my graphics card not having a UEFI GOP in its' BIOS
[14:54]  * penguin42 gently reflects on the last week or so he's had off and the things he hadn't got around to
[14:54] <diddledan> How?
[14:54] <daftykins> apparently lacking one of those prevents fast boot / secure boot, yet it somehow gets by and boots (just not as quick as it could)
[14:54] <diddledan> penguin42: procrastination ftw
[14:56] <daftykins> http://www.digimap.gg/marine/ais/ <-- this shows all the boats/ships out in the Channel, live data
[14:56] <daftykins> very funky
[14:58] <diddledan> daftykins: not many boats then!
[14:58] <daftykins> :P
[14:58] <daftykins> 102 cruise ships are visiting the island this year o0
[14:59] <diddledan> Busiest shipping lanes my arse
[15:00] <diddledan> Oops. Family friendly. Forgot which channel I was in
[15:00] <daftykins> yon Derriér
[15:00] <diddledan> Lol
[15:00] <daftykins> +/- e
[15:01] <SuperEngineer> those ferries from Kent to France seem a bit "drunk"
[15:15] <MartijnVdS> I saw a Guernseyan car in France last week
[15:15] <MartijnVdS> (Guernseyish?)
[15:15] <MartijnVdS> you don't see those a lot
[15:15] <daftykins> o rry, what made you ID it? our plates don't have country labels typically
[15:16] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: the fact that it had "GBG" on it :)
[15:16] <daftykins> ^_^ not many'd know that one i'd wager
[15:17] <MartijnVdS> I've seen them before too.. when I took a boat from St Malo
[15:17] <MartijnVdS> but that was 2 years ago I think
[15:17] <daftykins> yeah that's our main port down to the continent
[15:18] <daftykins> only been to France once myself... that was to drive straight through to Spain, too :D
[15:18] <MartijnVdS> :)
[16:19] <daftykins> this one is new - https://www.dropbox.com/s/4coy4brk01uolkb/IMG_20160530_164439.jpg?dl=0
[16:21] <zmoylan-pi> i must take a pic of the 1916 tour truck.  a nice military themed open sided truck driving around dublin.  in all weathers...
[16:40] <daftykins> :>
[16:41] <zmoylan-pi> in summer it would be smelly in traffic, in winter it would be an exercise in endurance :-)
[17:13] <daftykins> weird, my uncle just visited Gibraltar and couldn't receive any email from his google apps setup whilst there
[17:13] <daftykins> i blame mappps
[17:13] <daftykins> :D
[17:15] <zmoylan-pi> i blame systemd
[17:37] <penguin42> daftykins: That one sounds like a fun one to try and debug
[17:38] <daftykins> the best part is i turned on 2 factor auth so if i tried to log into the web control panel it'd send him a text with a code, so i wouldn't be able to log in unless he forwarded it to me
[17:42] <penguin42> could he get to his google account via a web browser?
[17:44] <zmoylan-pi> while abroad did he get his sms?
[17:45] <daftykins> as a true consumer problem, very little detail has been shared
[17:45] <daftykins> and what there is doesn't make any sense...
[17:45] <zmoylan-pi> when things work with google they're great and when they don't... it's fun and games
[17:46] <daftykins> i've not had any problems that weren't pinkware to be honest
[17:46] <daftykins> hosted exchange too, <client> i'm not getting emails from this one guy
 you appear to have added him to your blocked list :|
 our email is not working <me> looks like you're trying to pull down 120mb of email with 56k modem <them> so?
[17:48] <daftykins> :D
[17:53] <daftykins> latest one works from home and has a bit of a sketchy broadband connection, tells me she can tell when her son is playing on his Playstation... hah
[17:53] <daftykins> there's me with my 40/5 VDSL and then these families of 4 sharing the 20/1... :)
[19:53] <diddledan> evenink
[19:53] <diddledan> daftykins: even 80Mbit is too slow :-p
[19:54] <daftykins> it's the idea of sharing it that gets me *shudder*
[19:54] <daftykins> "oh we've got the house on the market so there's no point taking a look at it"
[19:54] <daftykins> mmk
[19:55] <diddledan> my neighbour seems to be banging something
[19:56] <daftykins> perhaps you should check if it's something worthy of bring all the diddledan's to the yard?
[19:56] <daftykins> *bringing
[19:57] <diddledan> nah, only milkshake is good enough for thtat
[19:57] <daftykins> right that's it, put me down now - way too many mistakes are being made all too regularly
[20:00]  * diddledan prepares the dartgun
[20:01] <diddledan> this’ll either knock you out, or give you an awesome trip
[20:01]  * zmoylan-pi presses concealed button raising wall revealing massive nerf collection and offers diddledan a choice of weapon...
[20:03] <daftykins> D:
[20:04]  * zmoylan-pi in a moment of weakness and fairplay also offers daftykins a choice of nerf weapon...
[20:15] <daftykins> i should have been specific about a humane method
[20:16] <zmoylan-pi> you could install win 8 on his system...
[20:17] <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: that's no good for man nor beast!
[20:18] <zmoylan-pi> then upgrade him to the new version of os/2 coming out...