[09:43] <Keybuk> - clear tty1
[09:43] <Keybuk> - quit usplash (which I assume chvt's to tty1)
[09:43] <Keybuk> - run console-screen.sh
[09:43] <Keybuk> - clear tty1 (again!)
[09:43] <Keybuk> - chvt 1
[09:43] <Keybuk> (the latter if the console is 8)
[09:44] <mjg59> Right
[09:44] <mjg59> I'm afraid I never wrote any of that code
[09:45] <_ion> The _only_ time the usplash splash is visible is during shutdown, from S20sendsigs i think. I wonder how to start debugging this?
[09:46] <Keybuk> mjg59: sending QUIT to usplash does chvt to 1, yes?
[09:53] <mjg59> Keybuk: To whatever vt usplash was started from
[09:54] <Keybuk> mjg59: tty1, as that's the only one that exists in initramfs
[10:07] <crimsun> iiii
[10:07] <crimsun> sorry, stuck keyboard
[10:07] <Seveas> jdub, ping
[10:12] <sladen> does a chvt 1 while on vt1 cause the wrong set of vt-switching signals to be sent?
[10:21] <trappist> do my comments on bug 59402 look right to you guys?  if so, is there somebody I should assign it to?
[10:21] <Ubug2> Malone bug 59402 in libxxf86vm "Cant't build against libxxf86vm-dev" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59402
[10:24] <Keybuk> sladen: how do you mean?
[10:25] <sladen> Keybuk: what is the effect of  chvt 1; chvt 1  and svgalib restoring the state of the console "on switch"
[10:26] <Keybuk> no idea
[10:26] <Keybuk> by the time the second chvt 1 is run, usplash isn't running
[10:26] <Keybuk> the issue is more that tty1 is cleared in the first place
[10:26] <Keybuk> clearing anything important that was on the screen before
[10:26] <Keybuk> including getty :p
[10:27] <sladen> Keybuk: so it's doing  clear; chvt 8;  rather than  chvt 8; clear
[10:28] <Keybuk> eh?
[10:29] <Keybuk> it's doing exactly what I said
[10:29] <Keybuk> it clears tty1
[10:29] <Keybuk> (on a related topic; I still don't understand why console-screen needs to actually, physically, change the vt ... why can't it just reset the vts while usplash is running - but hey-ho)
[10:30] <Keybuk> probably bugs/features in the vt layer
[10:30] <Keybuk> or a bad script
[10:31] <sladen> Keybuk: "it" clears?
[10:31] <Keybuk> S98usplash
[10:31] <Keybuk> has "clear > /dev/tty1"
[10:31] <Keybuk> which is why getty vanishes
[10:32] <sladen> Keybuk: I suggest you strike down on it with great vengeance
[10:33] <zyga> mvo: back
[10:34] <zyga> mvo: I know what is going on but I kind of don't understand why... the template expanding code explodes into infinity (no pun intended)
[10:36] <LaserJock> is it intentional to have update manager only use archive.u.c?
[10:36] <zyga> mvo: there is also a pretty bad problem of $(ls) treated like variable substitution
[10:37] <mvo> zyga: hm ...
[10:37] <mvo> LaserJock: what do you mean?
[10:37] <zyga> mvo: I can reproduce the crash using one liner, just a sec
[10:38] <mvo> zyga: ok
[10:38] <LaserJock> mvo: sorry, that wasn't very clear. I'm using update-manager to upgrade to edgy
[10:38] <LaserJock> mvo: it appears as if it is replacing any mirror with archive.u.c in the sources.list
[10:39] <mvo> LaserJock: that would be a bug then, it really should not touch the mirror url
[10:39] <mvo> just rewrite the distribution section
[10:39] <LaserJock> it leaves the components
[10:39] <LaserJock> it just adds a new line with archive.u.c
[10:40] <zyga> (that one liner is a particularly long one *g*)
[10:42] <zyga> 1.9MB long line really hogs vim...
[10:42] <lemsx1> zyga: try vile
[10:43] <zyga> lemsx1: gosh, that's emacs?
[10:43] <zyga> well anything that works ...
[10:43] <lemsx1> zyga: nah
[10:43] <lemsx1> zyga: vi for big files
[10:43] <zyga> woooah!!!
[10:43] <zyga> it's just fast!
[10:43] <lemsx1> vile?
[10:44] <zyga> yeah
[10:44] <zyga> hmm, no insert mode/
[10:44] <Kamion> turn off syntax highlighting and vim should behave better
[10:44] <lemsx1> good to know. i never use it myself :-P
[10:44] <lemsx1> vile is just like vi
[10:44] <zyga> oh, true
[10:44] <lemsx1> you might want to use vim in read-only mode or something... like: view foo.txt
[10:45] <Kamion> that won't particularly help
[10:45] <Kamion> IME
[10:45] <lemsx1> Kamion: i wonder if there is an easy way to tell vim to turn off all extra stuff
[10:45] <Kamion> use vim-tiny and run it as vi ...
[10:46] <Kamion> or vi -C
[10:46] <Kamion> hmm, no
[10:46] <lemsx1> Kamion: ah, removing ~/.vimrc and launching vim as vi: ln -s /usr/bin/vim /usr/bin/vi ... or so
[10:46] <zyga> vim in read only mode still dies on that file
[10:46] <zyga> but vile is quite usable
[10:46] <Kamion> try 'view -u NONE'
[10:47] <lemsx1> zyga: vim should do it as well, but the highlighting, syntax detect, and completion really kills you at times
[10:47] <Kamion> behaves much better on big files IME
[10:47] <zyga> I kind of know what crashes in my code now, somehow I the list of iterable variables expanded and expanded into one *BIG* list of variables, I don't know how it did that on small postinst file
[10:47] <lemsx1> Kamion: in vi mode, yes. but in vim/gvim it's very slow
[10:48] <zyga> OTOH anyone who wrote mailman.postinst should DIE ;-)
[10:48] <Kamion> lemsx1: works fine for me in vim mode
[10:48] <Kamion> (I use vim, not vim-tiny, so I don't really *have* a vi mode)
[10:48] <lemsx1> zyga: lol
[10:49] <Kamion> -u NONE turns off all initialisations, including syntax highlighting etc.
[10:50] <lemsx1> Kamion: i have a spiffy .vimrc/.vim/.gvimrc setup... sometimes i hit one of those huge (gigabytes in size) files who really mess up vim
[10:50] <lemsx1> Kamion: any XML file over 20mb is a killer for me
[10:51] <lemsx1> somebody should write a Howto in howtoforge on the "perfect vim setup" :-P
[10:51] <zyga> lemsx1: nah, ubuntu should ship one :)
[10:52] <lemsx1> zyga: you got a point there... but, vim will read your own $HOME settings after the system-wide ones...
[10:53] <zyga> lemsx1: so/
[10:53] <zyga> there is no .vimrc in skel
[10:53] <_ion> I'm sure ubuntu wouldn't ship my perfect vim setup, which e.g. contains "set guioptions=Lacir" to hide the menubar and the toolbar in gvim. :-)
[10:53] <lemsx1> zyga: it will screw up things
[10:53] <zyga> lemsx1: anyone who uses vim knows how to get past that ;-)
[10:53] <lemsx1> zyga: yeah, but i mean people who already customize their $HOMEs (or use NFS-mounted home's)
[10:53] <zyga> I'm for removing vim/emacs off the CD for that case :)
[10:54] <zyga> they are not user tools in any way
[10:54] <Kamion> emacs is not on the CD
[10:54] <jdong_> hmm, how does g-p-m determine whether or not to hide its power graphs? is that a hal thing?
[10:54] <lemsx1> zyga: no. that's not true
[10:54] <Kamion> only vim-tiny is on the CD, and I will vehemently oppose removing that
[10:54] <Kamion> the small amount of space it takes up is well worth avoiding the WTF factor for any long-time Unix user upon finding that there's no vi installed
[10:54] <lemsx1> zyga: you need vi in all CDs no matter what. and vim is the best vi implementation on the planet ;-)
[10:55] <zyga> lemsx1: and you need them for what?
[10:55] <jdong_>   system.formfactor = 'unknown'  (string)
[10:55] <jdong_> hmm :(
[10:55] <lemsx1> zyga: in UNIX all config files are plain text
[10:55] <zyga> lemsx1: just think - anyone can install vim, no user uses vim (where user = grandma user)
[10:55] <lemsx1> zyga: adding users is one
[10:55] <zyga> lemsx1: we already ship a good number of editors by default
[10:56] <zyga> lemsx1: I am only referring to the default ubuntu desktop install
[10:56] <lemsx1> zyga: i know newbies and what have you, are a totally different thing... vi takes like 1mb of space
[10:56] <zyga> OTOH ubuntu should be added to all dictionaries :P
[10:56] <jdong_> how do I force hal to believe I have a laptop??
[10:56] <Amaranth> zyga: Removing vi(m) is blasphemous
[10:56] <zyga> lemsx1: hmm, I are oyu sure?
[10:56] <zyga> Amaranth: not removing, moving off the precious CD to the internet archive
[10:56] <lemsx1> jdong_: install laptop-mode scripts ?
[10:57] <Amaranth> zyga: That's removing from the CD
[10:57] <Amaranth> from the default install, rather
[10:57] <zyga> lemsx1: apt-cache show vim | grep Size
[10:57] <zyga> hmm/
[10:57] <Amaranth> 700k
[10:57] <jdong_> lemsx1: does that actually work?
[10:57] <lemsx1> zyga: think networking and you will understand why vi can't be removed. transfering data on slow links is painful and remote management on somebody else's system is done usually on a console running some text editor that's lite
[10:58] <jdong_> lemsx1:   system.formfactor = 'unknown'  (string)
[10:58] <lemsx1> zyga: i was refering to just the app
[10:58] <lemsx1> zyga: $> du -s /usr/bin/vim.tiny
[10:58] <lemsx1> 868K    /usr/bin/vim.tiny
[10:59] <Amaranth> vim-tiny is 470750 package size
[10:59] <lemsx1> jdong_: i use the laptop mode scripts. they work for me
[10:59] <zyga> lemsx1: you have nano for remote access, and if you have remote access you might as well just install vim-tiny :)
[10:59] <jdong_> lemonade: hal doesn't believe my laptop is a laptop, so g-p-m doesn't show the discharge graphs and such
[10:59] <Amaranth> so we're talking about 460k
[10:59] <jdong_> err lemsx1
[10:59] <lemsx1> Amaranth: the package is compressed right. gzip'd
[10:59] <zyga> Amaranth: hmm, true
[11:00] <Amaranth> lemsx1: Size is the package size
[11:00] <lemsx1> zyga: and you then will remember to type nano? vi is EVERYWHERE. i'm a solaris admin as well
[11:00] <zyga> I still kind-of think that it's like build-essential, it should not be on a desktop CD
[11:00] <zyga> lemsx1: I'm not telling anyone to remove vi. altogether, I'm just suggesting it's not needed on the desktop CD
[11:00] <Amaranth> zyga: You risk pissing off/confusing a lot of people to save 460k
[11:01] <LaserJock> mvo: bug #59410
[11:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59410 in update-manager "[dist-upgrader]  new a.u.c deb line in sources.list" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59410
[11:01] <lemsx1> Amaranth: package size after install? isn't that "installed size"
[11:01] <zyga> Amaranth: hmm, maybe but with command-not-found it's not that much of an issue really :D
[11:01] <mvo> LaserJock: thanks!
[11:01] <lemsx1> Amaranth: Installed-Size: 1392
[11:01] <Amaranth> oh yeah, installed size is what we want since it's the desktop cd
[11:01] <Amaranth> although even then it's squashfs compressed
[11:02] <Amaranth> lemsx1: vim-tiny is what you want to look at
[11:02] <lemsx1> zyga: the desktop CD is "live" right? and it also allows you to install the OS. so, if i use it to troubleshoot a system, you expect me to remember to type all known text editors until i hit one. or just use "vi" ?
[11:03] <lemsx1> zyga: there are other ways to save space on the CD... vi is 1.x mb...
[11:03] <trappist> I sure don't want to be the first *nix in history to not be able to find room for vi
[11:03] <zyga> lemsx1: to troubleshoot anything use the alternate CD IMHO that's more appropriate
[11:03] <zyga> trappist: again, I'm only for removing them from the default install - nobody is hurting vi :)
[11:03] <Amaranth> lemsx1: it's 940k
[11:04] <Amaranth> lemsx1: vim-tiny is what's installed right now
[11:04] <lemsx1> zyga: well. let's just say that you win. we won't change the distrib today anyway
[11:04] <Amaranth> you want to look at it
[11:04] <trappist> zyga: vi is probably the 1st thing I use on a default install, to edit sources.list
[11:04] <zyga> lemsx1: that's okay, there is a spec about that, might just as well happen for edgy+1 :)
[11:04] <Amaranth> 940k before it's compressed in the squashfs (or whatever is used)
[11:04] <lemsx1> trappist: me too, but not just that, /etc/network/interfaces and what have you
[11:04] <zyga> trappist: me too
[11:05] <zyga> trappist: but you can, on a default install type apt-get install vim-$flavor (and you probably do that by default too)
[11:05] <zyga> right?
[11:05] <lemsx1> zyga: i betcha that when vi gets removed from the desktop CD there will be somebody offering their own CDs "done right" which includes vi
[11:05] <trappist> I do
[11:05] <lemsx1> zyga: if you have networking, yes
[11:05] <zyga> lemsx1: I say, let them :)
[11:06] <zyga> I'm sure slashdot and digg will make it front page stories too ;)
[11:06] <lemsx1> zyga: if you are in an enterprise, you might not have that choice (firewalls)
[11:06] <trappist> but man, if there's one thing that's always been guaranteed to be on any linux/unix box, it's vi
[11:06] <zyga> lemsx1: if you don't you can use nano, it's there too :)
[11:06] <Amaranth> trappist: exactly
[11:06] <zyga> oh guys - but first off
[11:06] <zyga> there is no remote access without ssh-server, we don't ship it installed by default
[11:07] <lemsx1> zyga: instead of Nano it should be evi (vim in easy mode)
[11:07] <Amaranth> i'm not talking about remote access
[11:07] <zyga> any server will have vim/vi on the cd and in default install
[11:07] <lemsx1> zyga: don't see the point on changing vim with anything else
[11:07] <zyga> IMHO one trivial text mode editor is enough, how many we put today? 5 or something?
[11:07] <Amaranth> i'm talking about 'vi' existing on every Unix/Linux in existance
[11:07] <LarstiQ> zyga: fsvo "use nano"
[11:07] <trappist> not all desktop users are gedit/kate people.  I don't want to alienate the people who have come to accept the availability of vi as a matter of faith.
[11:08] <zyga> Amaranth: that's true if you notice that most of those installations are not desktop systems now, think different as some company used to say
[11:08] <Amaranth> zyga: Does that company include 'vi' on their systems? :)
[11:08] <zyga> Amaranth: yeah, but they ship them on DVD's you know ;-)
[11:09] <zyga> :D
[11:10] <trappist> I've used *floppy* distros that saw fit to include at least ye olde vi
[11:10] <zyga> and besides, they do not have apt-get like system that would get you one with one line of shell
[11:10] <LarstiQ> if your sources.list is working
[11:10] <zyga> trappist: it's not about getting every last bit of space, think about purpose of vim on the desktop - I see none :)
[11:11] <zyga> LarstiQ: again, there are many editors in the default install that just work and are far easier to save and quit
[11:11] <LarstiQ> zyga: on a totally installed system? It's the only editor a lot of people use, including the desktop
[11:11] <trappist> zyga: see my previous comment - not all desktop users are consolephobes.  I think it would be a mistake to alienate the old-school linux-desktop console users
[11:11] <zyga> LarstiQ: stop thinking about people = ubuntu developers, you are wrong in that assumption
[11:11] <trappist> LarstiQ: +1
[11:12] <LarstiQ> zyga: I'm not even an ubuntu developer
[11:12] <trappist> zyga: people = windows users is also a bad assumption
[11:12] <pitti> having *any* vi-ish editor available is really a must
[11:12] <zyga> trappist: both are wrong, but statistics wins over my case
[11:12] <lemsx1> zyga: don't be a hater. if you don't want to use vi, use nano. but let vi exist in the CD for the rest of us
[11:13] <LarstiQ> pitti: agreed, I can live with pure vi
[11:13] <zyga> lemsx1: don't get me wrong - I love vim
[11:13] <pitti> but vim users are generally the kind of people who know how to install the fully version, I'd assume
[11:13] <zyga> guys guys
[11:13] <zyga> pitti: +1
[11:13] <zyga> 1) I love vim, i never use nano
[11:13] <trappist> zyga: 90% of people probably wouldn't notice if we dropped vim, but the 10% who would, would be seriously unimpressed, and potential contributors are kind of concentrated into that 10%
[11:13] <zyga> 2) space is not that important, true but it might be someday or when we want to make a sub 700MB CD
[11:13] <zyga> 3) there is *no reason* to ship half a dozen of text only editors for a desktop CD
[11:14] <lemsx1> zyga: then make people vote
[11:14] <LarstiQ> while I agree on the half dozen part, I see no connection between 'text only' and desktop
[11:14] <zyga> trappist: I agree, so we should do this in a way that they understand is correct
[11:14] <lemsx1> zyga: there is no way nano would win over vi
[11:14] <LarstiQ> or rather, reason not to
[11:15] <zyga> LarstiQ: the connection is: there is at least (not to mention another half a dozen probably) graphical text editors available by default that can be used instead, I'm not alientating console or anything
[11:15] <LarstiQ> zyga: are any of those vi?
[11:15] <zyga> lemsx1: nano is just an example: it could be vi but then let's drop nano
[11:16] <zyga> (nano is better for users that *need* to use the console but never used vi to edit their broken /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[11:16] <lemsx1> zyga: now you are talking
[11:16] <zyga> but my claim that nano is better for that case still holds
[11:16] <lemsx1> zyga: there is easy vim for that
[11:16] <zyga> lemsx1: how is it called?
[11:16] <lemsx1> zyga: if symlink as evi, it just work like nano
[11:16] <zyga> oh :)
[11:17] <zyga> funny - I don't have evi
[11:17] <lemsx1> zyga: evim in the current ubuntu setup
[11:17] <zyga> evim :)
[11:17] <zyga> right
[11:17] <lemsx1> and you don't need to know anything about edit mode visual mode and whatever
[11:17] <zyga> looks decent :)
[11:17] <LarstiQ> funny, I don't know how to exit evi :)
[11:18] <zyga> hehehe
[11:18] <lemsx1> lol
[11:18] <zyga> me either :D
[11:18] <lemsx1> no ESC for you
[11:18] <zyga> fortunatly that was gevim :D
[11:18] <trappist> yeah, I think evi kinda defeats the purpose of keeping vi
[11:18] <zyga> so I clicked quit
[11:18] <zyga> boy that was odd
[11:18] <zyga> trappist: +1
[11:18] <LarstiQ> trappist: it's just argv[0]
[11:18] <lemsx1> zyga: same here. it opens in gevim
[11:19] <zyga> I'm glad I have shown you my point of view :)
[11:19] <_ion> ^O:q<enter> seems to quit it. :-)
[11:19] <jdong> there. hal is happily forced into believing that I have a laptop. :)
[11:19] <LarstiQ> _ion: thanks!
[11:19] <trappist> I don't know if we have anything besides nano and vim on the cd, but I think we need nano for new users and vim for old schoolers, neither of whom we want to alienate.  I think they're both crucial.
[11:19] <_ion> (Every vim user should learn ^O)
[11:20] <lemsx1> _ion: ah, i didn't know about ^O
[11:20] <bluefoxicy> weird
[11:20] <bluefoxicy> when I rebooted the splash screen didn't print anything about what tasks were starting
[11:20] <zyga> _ion: I didn't knew that either
[11:20] <lemsx1> ttyt guys. nice chat!
[11:20] <zyga> (vim is an amazing editor, every day you learn something new)
[11:22] <bluefoxicy> also the crash reporter's dialog-to-the-face is starting to seriously piss me off.
[11:22] <_ion> Also :g and :norm
[11:22] <bluefoxicy> it bitches about every little thing, and then keeps saying whatever the first thing that ever crashed was has died
[11:23] <jdong> bluefoxicy: likewise; here it always thinks gaim has crashed for some reason
[11:23] <jdong> bluefoxicy: it tells me about it on every login
[11:23] <bluefoxicy> jdong:  I spewed a half a dozen specs based on pitti's crash reporter, one of them mentioned something about throwing dialogs in users' faces being a bad idea
[11:23] <bluefoxicy> I think I said the user would just click through
[11:23] <jdong> yeah, no kidding.... it's just plain annoying
[11:23] <bluefoxicy> I didn't predict that it would aggitate the hell out of me/anyone
[11:24] <jdong> like the windows XP thing
[11:24] <bluefoxicy> the XP one isn't agitating
[11:24] <bluefoxicy> amusingly enough it doesn't come back on every boot or every illicit program close and throw the same crap in your face.
[11:24] <jdong> well, that's a bug I suppose :)
[11:24] <_ion> s/systray/notification area/ ;-)
[11:24] <jdong> I hope
[11:24] <jdong> I pray
[11:25] <zyga> DAMN is the new artwork pretty! :)
[11:26] <jdong> new sounds are sweet, too
[11:26] <zyga> I broke my sound card :/
[11:26] <zyga> anyway
[11:26] <zyga> could we make the gdm background remain there untill the panel shows up?
[11:27] <bluefoxicy> jdong: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomatedProblemReportsNotification in case you're interested
[11:27] <zyga> I'm not talking about fading the background or anything but just waiting for the panel to show up so that the whole process is more fluid
[11:27] <bluefoxicy> jdong:  not that I'd ever write a single line of code in that direction.
[11:27] <Trewas> btw will edgy have networkmanager by default, or what is used for managing network connections?
[11:30] <bluefoxicy> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/compressed-memory I'm hoping this is stable by Edgy+1 because I freaking love it (I used the 2.4 one back in the day)
[11:30] <bluefoxicy> anyway *does other stuff*
[11:31] <_ion> bluefoxicy: Hmm, a very interesting concept.
[11:31] <bluefoxicy> _ion:  memory compression?  It's old, but good.
[11:49] <Keybuk> tsk
[11:49] <Keybuk> what's wrong with this?
[11:49] <Keybuk> pid = fork ();
[11:49] <Keybuk> if (fork > 0)
[11:49] <Keybuk>     exit (0);
[11:49] <bluefoxicy> Keybuk:  fork?  what the hell?
[11:50] <bluefoxicy> Keybuk:  s/if (fork/if (pid/
[11:50] <Keybuk> yes :p
[11:50] <thom> heh
[11:50] <bluefoxicy> (hint:  you are checking if fork()'s entry point is at an address > NULL)
[11:51] <thom> maybe testing the correct variables would help? :-P
[11:51] <bluefoxicy> Keybuk:  coding while drunk/tired/surrounded by real life cute guys that actually aren't straight/etc?
[11:51] <Keybuk> coding until a deadline
[11:51] <Keybuk> sadly David's buggered off back to work
[11:51] <bluefoxicy> ah, coding under pressure.
[11:52] <_ion> Something upstart-related, btw?
[11:52] <Keybuk> _ion: nah, just testing why usplash fucks the console
[11:52] <bluefoxicy> Keybuk: perhaps because its condoms are reaching their expiration date?
[11:52] <cbx33> hey seb128
[11:53] <seb128> hi
[11:53] <cbx33> did you get a chance to see my pessulus patch?
[11:53] <Keybuk> bluefoxicy: heh, never use them myself ... and soooo off-topic :p
[11:53] <bluefoxicy> you missed the joke I see :P
[11:53] <Keybuk> yes, I did
[11:53] <seb128> cbx33: not yet
[11:54] <sladen> Keybuk: bugger off as in ->USA ?
[11:54] <cbx33> seb128, think it'll make FF?
[11:54] <sladen> Keybuk: buggered
[11:54] <Keybuk> sladen: hmm?
[11:54] <bluefoxicy> Keybuk: the latex eventually breaks down and they expire; hence occasionally the issue of ... finding a way to use the rest of the box up quickly ... comes up :P
[11:54] <seb128> cbx33: if people stopping pinging me on IRC every 5s maybe :p
[11:54] <cbx33> hahah
[11:54] <sladen> Keybuk: "disappeared off to work" == "flown to the US"?
[11:54] <cbx33> sorry
[11:54] <seb128> np
[11:54] <bluefoxicy> anyway
[11:54] <seb128> I'll have a look on it next
[11:54] <cbx33> ty
[11:54] <Keybuk> sladen: no, just back home to the Cotswolds ?
[11:55] <seb128> but I've been very busy this week
[11:55] <cbx33> I know
[11:55] <seb128> with GNOME 2.16, feature freeze, etc
[11:55] <cbx33> which is why I havn't buged you
[11:55] <cbx33> this is just a curious...do you think it'll get in
[11:55] <cbx33> not a pressue push :p
[11:55] <cbx33> I don;t do those
[11:55] <cbx33> ;)
[11:55] <seb128> ok, so I think there will be no issue if the patch is correct ;)
[11:55] <seb128> :)
[11:55] <cbx33> ;)
[11:58] <robertj_> should we add Trashes to the places side-bar in Nautilus?
[11:58] <robertj_> (or I guess just Trash:/// since it encompases all .Trash entries now)
[11:59] <seb128> robertj_: no
[11:59] <seb128> we already have it on the panel
[11:59] <seb128> and it's easy to delete from the menu or the keyboard
[11:59] <seb128> no need to clutter places too
[12:00] <robertj_> seb128: I was viewing the applet as the clutter :)
[12:00] <robertj_> because Nautilus is only on-screen while I'm managing files
[12:00] <Kamion> only way I can see to do it is to hope that debian-installer/keymap is there, I think
[12:00] <seb128> robertj_: nautilus manages your desktop too
[12:01] <seb128> robertj_: and some people use a different sidebar or the spatial mode
[12:01] <robertj_> seb128: spatial is more problematic though
[12:02] <seb128> ?
[12:02] <robertj_> seb128: removing trash applet for spatial users
[12:02] <seb128> robertj_: why it's not for people using a different sidebar to browser mode?
[12:02] <robertj_> seb128: because then puting it in the sidebar is an obvious solution
[12:03] <seb128> places sidebar
[12:03] <robertj_> well indeed, I suppose it should be in Tree as well..but still
[12:03] <seb128> what is your issue with the very few pixel it takes on the panel?
[12:04] <robertj_> seb128: im a one-panel heretic
[12:04] <robertj_> seb128: recent convert though, within 7 days every screen I had in the house went from 4x3 to 16x9
[12:04] <robertj_> and then I decided I might should fiddle with my layout a bit
[12:04] <seb128> adding a bookmark to trash:/// is easy enough if you customize your whole desktop anyway


[20:16] <Bashing-om> Redbeardt: Going to Intel (IEM) is the means of last resort . A real pain to maintain the driver then . Besides it is beta .. and you are the tester !. Let's take a look at the config file for X see if there is something out of place ' cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf ' Be aware I am the more familiar with this file with nVidia as the card in use .
[20:16] <uRock> As long as it has Network Manager, I can use it.
[20:16] <Redbeardt> Bashing-om: Looks like I don't have an xorg.conf
[20:17] <Bashing-om> Remind: What driver are you using  for the 950M ?
[20:17] <Redbeardt> Bashing-om: I'm on 361 atm
[20:17] <Remind> Bashing-om, I just reinstalled. When I go to additional drivers it says its using the X.Org X serer right now
[20:18] <uRock> bekks, I was able to find a GUI workaround. NM has a Route button in the IpV4 tab, once clicked, I was able to select a checkbox setting the connection to be for LAN use only.
[20:18] <Remind> The other option is 'Using NVIDIA binary driver - version 361.42'
[20:18] <Bashing-om> Redbeardt: Ouch ! now that is an issue .. that file must exist for switching to take place ! // OK. let's try this .. can you boot with the nVidia card ? and we have the system generate the file .
[20:18] <bekks> uRock: and that leaves you with only ony default gateway in "netstat -rn"?
[20:18] <bz-> hi, has anyone noticed that qimo4kids.com is down?
[20:19] <Redbeardt> Bashing-om: Actually I had put a file there a few hours ago, and then I checked later while continuing to diagnose and it was gone. Something is deleting it.
[20:19] <bekks> bz-: No on in here cares, actually.
[20:19] <ikonia> nothing to do with ubuntu bekks
[20:19] <uRock> bekks, yes
[20:19] <ikonia> bz-: even
[20:19] <ikonia> sorry bekks
[20:19] <bekks> ikonia: ;)
[20:19] <Redbeardt> Bashing-om: I noticed at the bottom of the gpu-manager log you asked me to paste earlier, there was mention of deleting xorg.conf.
[20:19] <uRock> ikonia, lol
[20:19] <bz-> how come?
[20:20] <Bashing-om> Remind: Consider : http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/106780/en-us ; where nVidia recommends the 367 version driver .
[20:20] <Remind> When I select the prooprietary driver (Using NVIDIA binary driver - version 361.42) and restart, my System Details still says I'm using Intel for my graphics
[20:20] <bekks> bz-: It is not related to Ubuntu.
[20:20] <bz-> it's not?
[20:20] <bz-> ok
[20:20] <bekks> bz-: "No."
[20:20] <ikonia> bz-: this channel is for ubuntu discussion
[20:20] <Redbeardt> Bashing-om: "Moved /etc/X11/xorg.conf to /etc/X11/xorg.conf.08282016" from gpu-manager.log
[20:20] <bz-> sorry, i thought it was urrm, like an ubuntu extension
[20:21] <bz-> i thought this was a channel which may have also been responsible for other creations of ubuntu, including qimo, my bad....
[20:21] <Remind> Bashing-om, I tried that just a bit ago, which is why I had to restart. I had to CTRL+ALT+F1, service lightdms stop, and installed the driver. It gave me an error saying it didn't install, and when I restarted
[20:21] <ikonia> bz-: no problem
[20:21] <bz-> so like
[20:21] <Remind> I would log in, and be immediatly logged off
[20:21] <bz-> thanks.
[20:21] <Bashing-om> Redbeardt: In hybrid graphics. the file should get switched our for use by the "in-use" graphic set . If that file does not exist ... then X has no directive of what to do .
[20:21] <Remind> Could this have something to do with needing to get bumblebee or something to do with prime/optimus? I've read about these but not sure which route to go. I just want to use my graphics card and have a working Ubuntu :P
[20:21] <Redbeardt> Bashing-om: Oh right
[20:22] <Bashing-om> Redbeardt: Try and have the system generate a new file ??
[20:23] <Redbeardt> Remind: My experience was that bumblebee just doesn't work very well. Things got a lot easier when I started using PRIME.
[20:23] <szb> Remind: Maybe you can add Ubuntu's "official" Nvidia ppa and install the latest driver that way... At least from there they are properly packaged! Had success with this on a friend's Linux Mint when the older driver from the repo and the newer from Nvidia's website wouldn't work!
[20:23] <Redbeardt> Bashing-om: Uhhh how do I do that? hah
[20:23] <szb> Remind: Read about / Find it here: hat just a bit ago, which is why I had to restart. I had to CTRL+ALT+F1, service lightdms stop, and installed the driver. It gave me an error saying it didn't install, and when I restarted
[20:23] <ikonia> bumblebee is dead
[20:24] <szb> Remind: Argh... ignore that, I don't even know why I had that in my clipboard!? here's the link to the ppa: https://launchpad.net/~graphics-drivers/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
[20:25] <Bashing-om> Redbeardt: Try boot up with the nVidia card as in use , and in terminal run : ' sudo nvidia-xconfig ' . Should build us an appropriate file .
[20:25] <Redbeardt> Remind: ikonia: Bumblebee is so dead that if you use the Nvidia PPA mentioned by szb and download driver packages from it, nvidia-prime comes with them.
[20:25] <Remind> szb, Bashing-om, thank you guys very much
[20:25] <Redbeardt> Bashing-om: Ok, brb then ;)
[20:25] <Remind> Is there a way to verify that my system is utilizing the NVIDIA card and not the intel card?
[20:26] <Redbeardt> Remind: prime-select query ... if you have it installed
[20:26]  * uRock That warm fuzzy you get when you find how to do something without opening the terminal.
[20:27] <Remind> Thank you :)
[20:27] <Bashing-om> Remind: I do follow what nVida recommends - 367 - However ! That driver is to be gotten from our PPA . depending on how you feel about PPAs and what you want to do .
[20:28] <Remind> So after adding this PPA, would I just apt-get install nvidia-graphics-driver-367 ?
[20:29] <szb> Remind: Yup, pretty much! Not sure if you need to run 'nvidia-xconfig' after installation... Bashing-om? ^-^
[20:29] <Bashing-om> Remind: Yes, just remember to purge the o;ld driver .. and also remove the old config file ' sudo rm /etc/X11/xorg.conf ' . A new one will be nade up with the driver install .
[20:30] <Remind> sudo apt-get remove --purge nvidia* ?
[20:30] <LordLaravel> strange, few days ago I have root -> root logging in 1440 times
[20:30] <LordLaravel> the past few days
[20:30] <Remind> Thank you guys so much for helping me out
[20:30] <LordLaravel> always 1440
[20:31] <Bashing-om> szb: Yeah .. there are those rare cases where the config file does not build . rare though .
[20:33] <Redbeardt> Bashing-om: Well I generated the new xorg.conf and it differed rather drastically compared to the old one, but it had no effect on my problems. :<
[20:34] <ElectroLex> me is using "Ubuntu Kylin" it's pretty cool...
[20:35] <Remind> Added the PPA, seemed to work fine. However it can't find that nvidia package. Could I be doing it incorrectly? sudo apt-get install nvidia-graphcis-drivers-367
[20:35] <Remind> E: Unable to locate package nvidia-graphics-drivers-367
[20:36] <_adb> which package do i need for apache to execute perl cgis? (it currently displays content of file without executing. Options +ExecCGI is included in config)
[20:36] <EriC^^> Remind: did you run sudo apt-get update ?
[20:36] <Remind> I sure did!
[20:36] <EriC^^> Remind: try apt-cache search 367
[20:37] <Remind> nvidia-367 - NVIDIA binary driver - version 367.44
[20:37] <Remind> I got quite a bit of results though
[20:37] <EriC^^> try apt-cache policy nvidia-367
[20:37] <Bashing-om> Redbeardt: And what driver is in use ? ' sudo lshw -C display ' ..
[20:38] <Redbeardt> Bashing-om: Well I'm logged in so now it'd be the Intel... and it is
[20:38] <Remind> Bashing-om, it shows both my intel and my GTX 950M in two seperate display listings
[20:38] <banditti> Hello all.  I did do-release-upgrade from 14 to 16.04 and now things don't work.  For example, I can't ssh to the box now.  Thoughts?
[20:38] <Redbeardt> Bashing-om: I might go run that with the nvidia selected just to see what it says.. brb
[20:38] <Bashing-om> Remind: Might be good to make sure that BunbleBee is not a factor and all nVidia deiversa are purged ' dpkg -l | grep -i nvidia ' and I give ya the new install routine .
[20:39] <Remind> Bashing-om, iHR nvidia-367                                  367.44-0ubuntu0~gpu16.04.1                                  amd64        (no description available)
[20:40] <Bashing-om> Remind: ' sudo add-apt-repository ppa:graphics-drivers/ppa ' ?? and did you update afterward ???
[20:41] <Remind> Bashing-om, I sure did, just checked my .bash_history too
[20:41] <EriC^^> Remind: the nvidia package is still half installed
[20:42] <Bashing-om> Remind: Humm show me in a pastebin ' dpkg -l | grep -i nvidia ' . See what is .
[20:42] <Remind> Well, I think it was because I jumped the gun and ran 'apt-get install nvidia-367'
[20:42] <Remind> Now when I dpkg -l | grep -i nvidia
[20:43] <Remind> http://termbin.com/thub
[20:43] <Remind> Sorry I thought that'd be a bit easier
[20:43] <Redbeardt_> Bashing-om: With the Nvidia selected by PRIME, sudo lshw -C display returns http://pastebin.com/bYTWz7nB .. so it shows both!
[20:44] <Bashing-om> Remind: Looks good to me .. reboot and let's see what the effect is .
[20:45] <Remind> Bashing-om, will do, and thank you so much
[20:45] <Remind> Sorry to ask for so much help. I absolutely love linux and want it to be my only OS (which is what I'm doing now)
[20:45] <Remind> It's just this is the part that is always a huge speed bump
[20:45] <Remind> Crossing my fingers that this survives a reboot, brb!
[20:46] <Bashing-om> Redbeardt: Looks good .. but I do not understand now why " driver=i915_bpo  ' is used as the updated driver is installed . let's take a look at the control file ' cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf ' .
[20:47] <Redbeardt> Bashing-om: Well it's gone again since I'm booted with Intel selected.
[20:48] <Remind> It survived! I think it may have worked. Maybe this isn't the right way to check but when I go to settings > details > Graphics says "GeForce GTX 950M/PCIe/SSE2"
[20:48] <Bashing-om> Redbeardt: Ouch .. something is seriiusly ammiss, I think ! .. as Intel also must have it's config file in place . should have switched out !
[20:49] <Redbeardt> Bashing-om: Here is the xorg.conf that was generated by the nvidia command though: http://pastebin.com/E4nkd7zx
[20:49] <Bashing-om> Remind: Welcome to the linux learning curve . If you use the system and all is good .. you are in good shape . :)
[20:50] <Redbeardt> Bashing-om: I'm not even sure if there's any warrant for concern for a lack of xorg.conf file when I boot into the Intel, since the Intel seems to work just fine.
[20:50] <Phanes> using the gui in an implementation-specific GUI is not a "linux learning curve"
[20:50] <Remind> Sweet! Thank you so much! I'm in school right now learning linux installation/troubleshooting but we use RedHat and CentOs. However, everything I hear is Ubuntu is geared towards home users
[20:50] <Remind> Glad to finally ditch windows and make the switch. Thank you for being around and help me out. I really do appreciate your time
[20:50] <Phanes> stop telling people solutions only application to one window manager
[20:51] <Phanes> *applicable
[20:51] <ksft> Remind: were you having problems with an Nvidia/Intel graphics card thing?
[20:51] <Remind> ksft, I was, but Bashing-om got me fixed up!
[20:51] <ksft> I'm still having trouble with mine
[20:51] <Phanes> Bashing-om, for example, i use i3
[20:52] <ksft> if I install proprietary nvidia drivers, I get a login loop the next time I start X
[20:53] <knokon> quit
[20:53] <Phanes> anybody using the new GTX 1080 yet?  how's proprietary driver support?
[20:54] <Redbeardt> I'm starting to get burnt out again on this issue.. Already done heaps of digging myself, then the AskUbuntu question, now here with you Bashing-om.   I can't use apt-get upgrade or install because it complains that my linux-headers-generic have unmet dependencies. Can anyone knowledged enough point me out of this hole please?
[20:55] <spartan2276> How can I find out where the config files for the Wacom Tablet devices
[20:56] <Bashing-om> Phanes: Supported ! in our PPA . see: http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/106780/en-us .
[20:56] <reisio> spartan2276: why do you ask?
[20:57] <GoSu> tammy_, can't you archive and then move older versions of the kernel?
[20:58] <tables> how do i stop postfix from starting up?
[20:58] <GoSu> what is the size of your /boot partition?
[20:58] <spartan2276> because I have an Wacom Intous 12x9 and the ring to zoom in and out is not working. The tablet itself seems to work fine except for that
[20:58] <tammy_> I'm trying aptitude remove
[20:58] <tammy_> things are thinging
[20:58] <spartan2276> I tried using the GUI that is in the systems settings but not working
[20:58] <tammy_> so that's good
[20:58] <Bashing-om> Redbeardt: Oh it is solvable . I do not know the why however that the system does not pick up on the keyboard, mouse and monitor ! .. (Kernel Mode Setting) should take care of all that !
[20:59] <tammy_>  /boot is 184MB :(
[20:59] <GoSu> tables, disable the service to start on boot time
[20:59] <GoSu> tammy_, wow
[20:59] <GoSu> what files do you have there?
[20:59] <tammy_> that's the way this box is setup I guess
[20:59] <tammy_> a few kernels
[20:59] <tammy_> I forgot to remove them for a while :(
[20:59] <Bashing-om> Redbeardt: Gonna go smaoke on this .. be back soonest .
[20:59] <GoSu> try 'uname -r' and see what you are using
[21:00] <GoSu> then, the ones that are not needed, archive them end move them to another directory
[21:00] <tammy_> 3.2.0-99-generic
[21:00] <Bashing-om> tammy_: Got the operational overhead available for apt to work ' try ' sudo apt-get autoremove ' to remove old kernels .
[21:00] <tammy_> aptitude looks like it's saving my ass at the moment
[21:00] <spartan2276> reisio also the selection for the modes is also not working within the ring
[21:01] <tammy_> Bashing-om: I did that and it was nope. 4MB free on /boot
[21:01] <tammy_> aaaaand kernel has depends that were not there yet
[21:01] <tammy_> aptitude is working it's magic still
[21:01] <tammy_> I think this will do it
[21:02] <tammy_> power better not go out
[21:02] <GoSu> isn't aptitude more optimized than apt-get?
[21:02] <tammy_> beats me, never used it before just now
[21:02] <sorin-mihai> I'm trying to understand which components from the Ubuntu Cloud stack require a paid subscription and which not, and if I could work around that at least for a while, using different software. any ideas?
[21:02] <promet> I have a working nfs share, I'm trying to add a second exported folder on my nfs server. The client sees and correctly names this second folder, but upon opening, it is actually a mirror of the first shared folder. Anyone seen this?
[21:02] <Redbeardt> Bashing-om: So I just booted with the Nvidia again and checked out the xorg.conf and gpu-manager.log. Looks like the newly generated xorg.conf we did earlier is being overwritten by the older version it was using.    Apt get is not running it needs to  do stuff adn crashes, so I can't uninstall stuff
[21:05] <MarkusDBX> Any way to recover such a full system?
[21:05] <Bashing-om> tammy_: :) .. Mighty smart system is 'buntu !
[21:05] <Redbeardt> MarkusDBX: ..  I gotta figure out how to rolllback all the stuff I just installed from that PPA.
[21:06] <MarkusDBX> Redbeardt: Still full, it seems it just eats the space I clear.
[21:07] <MarkusDBX> I guess it got cached writes to write.
[21:07] <Bashing-om> Redbeardt: I do not like at all that former xorg config file . Just do not have an idea yet of what is not taking place .  Like can you remove that PPA and then downgrade to the latest versions newly available somehow?
[21:09] <kostkon> !ppapurge | Redbeardt
[21:09] <spartan2276> reisio intuos4 12x9
[21:09] <Redbeardt> kostkon: thanks
[21:11] <reisio> spartan2276: meant to be a scroll wheel?
[21:11] <BL4DE> Is empathy actually any good? I've been trying all day to set up a SIP account. In the end wouldn't give me buttons to pick up calls while they rang.
[21:11] <tammy_> thanks for letting me freak out in your channel #ubuntu :)
[21:12] <daumie> Am using linux color palette formy terminal..still I don;t like the display..any other recommended color palleted
[21:12] <daumie> using zsh shell
[21:12] <spartan2276> I believe so
[21:14] <OerHeks> hint: Oh My Zsh
[21:14] <Bashing-om> Redbeardt: We have a bug report ! I be reading : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-drivers-common/+bug/1565516 .
[21:14] <OerHeks> daumie, see examples https://github.com/robbyrussell/oh-my-zsh/wiki/themes
[21:14] <Redbeardt> ohh
[21:15] <Redbeardt> This ppa-purge doesn't seem to be doing a whole lot
[21:16] <daumie> Not themes, color scheme OerHeks
[21:16] <daumie> For example in my terminal profile preferances an susing linux terminal color pallete
[21:16] <Bashing-om> Redbeardt: ^^ no solution offered . But you are not alone !
[21:16] <daumie> OerHeks: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[21:18] <Redbeardt> Bashing-om: Damn. Well, thanks a bunch for your help
[21:19] <Redbeardt> Bashing-om: Now to figure out this new problem I've given myself with this PPA, and why ppa-purge isn't dealing with it properly.
[21:21] <GoSu> dimi34ka, hubav nick :)
[21:23] <Bashing-om> Redbeardt: ppa-purge should only revert that 367 driver to what is in the repo (361 ?) . and then you must remove the entry from the sourcs.list.d directory .
[21:24] <budder> page 33 of the installation guide says "To prepare the USB stick, you will need a system where GNU/Linux is already running and where USB is supported"
[21:24] <Redbeardt> Bashing-om: I actually added this ppa:oibaf/graphics-drivers because I thought it might help with the Intel.. but it has causedall sorts of strange rendering problems
[21:25] <budder> i am looking to dualboot alongside windows and DO NOT have a system already running GNU/Linux. what are my options?
[21:25] <akik> budder: first install windows, then linux. let grub boot both windows and linux
[21:25] <budder> akik: i do have windows installed
[21:26] <budder> akik: i did not understand the second part of your reply
[21:26] <akik> budder: you can resize (shrink) the windows partition to give space for the linux installation
[21:27] <akik> budder: this can be done within the disk management in windows
[21:27] <Bashing-om> Redbeardt: K; There is no doubt something strang is going on . What we do not yet know . Also there is no doubt in my mind that mc4man knows his stuff and as such with sky lake in 16.04 we want the i965-va-driver installed .
[21:27] <budder> akik: i have windows installed on my ssd and am looking to install ubuntu on my hdd. it is a 1tb hdd
[21:28] <akik> budder: is this an uefi system?
[21:28] <reisio> budder: what's the problem?
[21:29] <budder> akik: i'm not sure. i am running windows 10 64 on my ssd. want to install ubuntu on the hdd
[21:30] <Redbeardt> Gonna reboot.. Hopefully this rendering stuff is dealt with
[21:30] <budder> reisio: my concern is that in the installation guide it says "To prepare the USB stick, you will need a system where GNU/Linux is already running and where USB is supported" and i do not have a system already running GNU/Linux
[21:30] <budder> akik: custom PC with ASRock H97M pro4 motherboard
[21:30] <budder> akik: idk if that helps
[21:31] <bekks> budder: you can use a tool like Rufus for creating the USB using windows.
[21:31] <reisio> budder: referring to what, a usb stick for use as install media?
[21:32] <kholdstayre> where do i add a new path so that it applies to sudo? i added the path to /etc/environment and then sourced it, but that does not seem to have solved the problem
[21:32] <budder> reisio: yes i plan to use a USB stick as install media
[21:32] <Redbeardt_> Nope. ppa-purge apparently did nothing. Goddamnit.
[21:32] <reisio> budder: yeah okay, that's just a poorly written part of the install guide, then :)
[21:33] <reisio> budder: there's a variety of ways you can do it from Windows
[21:33] <budder> bekks: okay i am familiar with rufus. why does the installation guide not mention that alternative method then?
[21:33] <reisio> probably because nobody's paid to update it
[21:34] <tomreyn> kholdstayre: be sure to logout + login again to have changes apply.
[21:34] <kholdstayre> tomreyn, ah ok
[21:34] <kholdstayre> thx
[21:35] <budder> reisio: okay i see. so any specific reason it is not mentioned anywhere else in the installation guide?
[21:35] <Redbeardt_> Sigh. How the christ do I downgrade these packages now?
[21:35] <tomreyn> kholdstayre: also be aware that changes to /etc/environment apply for all users you may have. you can alernatively edit a users' $HOME/profile
[21:35] <Redbeardt_> I guess I'm getting frustrated after all that stuff about the other issue.
[21:35] <budder> reisio: do i have to partition my drive before I install ubuntu? or can I do that during the install? and how much space would you recommend? the guide says 10gb
[21:36] <reisio> budder: it probably says 10 is a "minimum"
[21:37] <reisio> budder: you don't have to, no, it can & will partition during installation
[21:37] <reisio> budder: I'd use a partition equivalent to the size of your ram for swap, and the rest for /
[21:37] <reisio> which is probably close to what it'll do automatically if you let it
[21:38] <budder> reisio: partition equivalent to the size of your ram for swap, and the rest for /
[21:38] <budder> what does that mean?
[21:38] <budder> i have 8gb ram
[21:39] <bekks> so 8 gb swap then.
[21:39] <tomreyn> Redbeardt_: you want to remove a ppa and remove packages installed from it / downgrade to supported package versions? i could guide you, but you'll need to bring along some patience and post some output to a pastebin, more than once..
[21:39] <budder> bekks: what is swap
[21:39] <reisio> budder: kinda like virtual memory
[21:39] <reisio> space for virtual memory
[21:40] <reisio> it's also used for suspend/hibernate, though
[21:40] <reisio> and is just generally useful, and expected
[21:40] <budder> reisio: you said partition equivalent to size of ram. i don't know what you mean by that. partition my hdd for linux equivalent to the size of my ram? that is what i get from that
[21:41] <reisio> budder: like bekks said
[21:41] <Redbeardt_> tomreyn: I merely re-added the PPA then ran ppa-purge on it again and it worked this time for some bloody reason. So that's that.
 kholdstayre: also be aware that changes to /etc/environment apply for all users you may have. you can alernatively edit a users' $HOME/profile
[21:41] <reisio> if you have 8gb of ram, then make 8gb for swap partition
[21:41] <bekks> budder: size of RAM = 8GB = size of the swap partition.
[21:41] <reisio> or you can just let it choose on its own
[21:41] <Dave666> Hi, anyone know how to get rc.local to run at startup in osmc? I think it's based on debian, but systemd doesn't seem to work properlu
[21:41] <budder> reisio:, bekks, so besides parititioning hard drive, is there something else that needs to be done?
[21:41] <reisio> budder: no, you don't even need to partition yourself, as I said :)
[21:41] <reisio> budder: I would suggest, though
[21:41] <tomreyn> Redbeardt_: fine. sometimes ppa-purge actually works.
[21:41] <bekks> budder: As reisio said :)
[21:41] <reisio> budder: if you have the option, to make your spinner the first drive, and your solid state the second
[21:42] <kholdstayre> tomreyn, i need the changes to apply for sudo. I have logged out and back in, but the problem persists, is there anything else I can do to add a path for sudo?
[21:42] <reisio> budder: that way you can keep grub more simply with the rest of Ubuntu, on the spinner, and not touch the windows installation at all
[21:43] <tomreyn> kholdstayre: when you run a command thorugh sudo it will, by default, use your normal users' environment.
[21:43] <budder> reisio, bekks, i'm just gonna dive into it. hopefully i'll learn these things along the way
[21:43] <reisio> budder: yeah you'll be fine
[21:43] <reisio> have any trouble, this is the place
[21:43] <budder> reisio: thank u
[21:43] <budder> bekks: thank u
[21:44] <tomreyn> kholdstayre: sory, i meant to say by default it does NOT preserve your users' environement.
[21:44] <reisio> np
[21:44] <tomreyn> kholdstayre: you could user the --preserve-env option to sudo, though
[21:45] <tomreyn> kholdstayre: this can have security implications, however. so be sure to read up on it on the man page first.
[21:45] <kholdstayre> tomreyn, ok let me try that. also, where are the env paths for sudo stored if not in etc/enviroment?
[21:45] <tomreyn> kholdstayre: /etc/sudoers(.d)
[21:57] <danny_> I'm setting up a server, should I create an a root account?  Or just always use sudo from a normal account?
[21:57] <Launched> It's more secure to use sudo from a regular account
[21:58] <reisio> not really
[21:58] <reisio> danny_: using sudo is the more Ubuntu way, however
[21:58] <reisio> either that means something to you or it doesn't
[21:58] <tomreyn> the question is not really whether or not to setup a root account, but whether or not to assign a password to the root account, since you will have a root account either way.
[21:59] <Launched> Good point
[22:00] <danny_> tomreyn, Actually no, according to the setup prompt right now "The root user should not have an empty password. If you leave this empty, the root account will be disabled and the system's initial user account will be given the power to become root using the "sudo" command."
[22:00] <reisio> well, one might argue that set-ting a password for root is kind of like a set-up of the root account :p
[22:00] <reisio> danny_: well he means "disabled"
[22:00] <ikonia> danny_: what setup prompt ?
[22:00] <antipsychiatry> Hey?????? What do u speak??? What security??? They use mind reading !!!!!! These secret service bastards!!!!!!!!
[22:00] <reisio> antipsychiatry: ikr
[22:01] <ikonia> antipsychiatry: enough please, stop with this sort of nonsense
[22:01] <danny_> ikonia, I'm setting up an open media vault server, (based on debian)
[22:01] <ikonia> danny_: ok - so this is nothing to do with ubuntu
[22:01] <ikonia> so nothing to do with this channel danny_
[22:01] <antipsychiatry> Ikonia!!!!! Read on ex -Nsa: remote neural monitoring.
[22:02] <ikonia> antipsychiatry: no - stop talking on this topic please
[22:02] <danny_> It seems like a topic relevant to all the debian variants ikonia.
[22:02] <ikonia> danny_: no it's not
[22:02] <ikonia> danny_: this channel support official ubuntu releases on ly
[22:02] <antipsychiatry> These secret service bastards - have clasified secret hi tech for spy on your minds.
[22:03] <Launched> Could we stop with the nsa talk?
[22:03] <OerHeks> danny_, ubuntu uses a disabled root password, so don't unfix that way
[22:03] <antipsychiatry> These bastards must be jailed!!!!!!!!
[22:03] <ikonia> OerHeks: he's not using ubuntu
[22:03] <ikonia> OerHeks: hence his question
[22:03] <phablet> gos
[22:03] <tomreyn> why don't you set a permanenet ban? he keeps coming back.
[22:04] <tomreyn> okay, that's offtopic.
[22:11] <timBandTech> Sorry guys, but given todays climate I do believe that the spooks are inside our OSs. Let's face it, how hard can it be to install backdoors in community maintained software? Any serious group can do this and so I suspect that numerous governments have done so. This is an abstract analysis and I have no actual proof, however you who are disabling this train of thought are the zombies. They who go off the deep end are not terribly
[22:11] <timBandTech> functional either. When your computer gets wierd you may have been hacked, but you may not have been; dealing in the unknown is tricky business, and the severe accumulation of software bulk is not helping this problem.
[22:12] <reisio> timBandTech: pretty hard
[22:12] <reisio> next
[22:13] <mario3154> that was a big rant for IRC
[22:13] <reisio> that was a pretyped copy & pasted "rant"
[22:13] <reisio> big rants are organic :p
[22:14] <zykotick9> ^ the BEST thing you can do about crap like above, is NOT talk about it!  ignore it - and it'll go away/stop/slow-down...  ymmv?!?!
[22:15] <poseidon> does ubuntu have decent touch screen support?
[22:19] <reisio> poseidon: yup
[22:22] <tomreyn> next!
[22:22] <Bricker> Desktop 14.04: System wont boot without monitor plugged in. I tried to add a dummy driver, but thats not working. Any solutions without requring a vga resistor setup? I'd like it to be pure software related no hardware
[22:23] <zykotick9> tomreyn: can i PM you?
[22:23] <OerHeks> that should be an bios option:  halt on no errors, for keyboard/vga
[22:24] <tomreyn> zykotick9: technically, yes
[22:24] <tomreyn> zykotick9: do it
[22:24] <Bricker> actually im kinda dumb...i tried pinging device from desktop when it has my ethernet cable :P it seemed to have worked
[22:24] <Bricker> lol
[22:34] <Guest75891> I'm running kubuntu 16.04 x64. how can i install ltsp-server-standalone without all these gnome & gtk dependencies?
[22:35] <reisio> Guest75891: could look into disabling recommends
[22:36] <Guest75891> apt-get --no-recommends package?
[22:37] <Guest75891> like that?
[22:37] <Bricker> any reason Wireless wouldnt connect when booting without a GUI?
[22:40] <reisio> Guest75891: http://superuser.com/questions/615565/can-i-make-apt-get-always-use-no-install-recommends
[22:40] <reisio> Guest75891: however
[22:40] <Guest75891> however?
[22:41] <reisio> however (you please)
[22:41] <reisio> tricky ole English
[22:41] <Guest75891> "however" is usually a conjunction :P
[22:41] <reisio> Bricker: yes, your autoconfigurator is probably GUI-based
[22:41] <reisio> Guest75891: and 'usually' indicates exceptions :p
[22:41] <Bricker> sounds right
[22:42] <Bricker> how do I overcome this? /etc/network/interfaces and specify wlan1 there?
[22:42] <Bricker> (this is 14 not 16)
[22:42] <Guest75891> I just don't see the need for all the gnome packages when I'm not serving a gnome environment.
[22:42] <reisio> Bricker: IME nm-applet, for example will actually write to the configuration file, so it _should_ work as long as your networkmanager service is actually running
[22:42]  * Guest75891 has never done anything like this before
[22:42] <reisio> Guest75891: very sane
[22:43] <Guest75891> my not wanting to install a bunch of crapi don't need (gnome) is sane?
[22:43] <Guest75891> cool. :)
[22:44] <reisio> yes, quite sane
[22:44] <reisio> my congratulations on you pursuing that
[22:44] <reisio> disabling recommends will help some
[22:44] <Bricker> sorry, whats IME mean? nm-applet when ran via commandline wants a gui
[22:44] <reisio> in my experience
[22:44] <Bricker> oh
[22:45] <reisio> nm-applet is probably what you had been using from GUI
[22:45] <reisio> but as I said, IME it saves to the configuration file
[22:45] <Bricker> well, when i plug ethernet in, its working, but not wireless. which is weird
[22:45] <Bricker> where does it save the config file?
[22:45] <reisio> so check that the networkmanager service is running, and it should work still
[22:45] <MonkeyDust> Bricker  not weird, ethernet doesnt need configuration, is faster and more stable
[22:45] <Guest75891> --no-install-recommends still wants all the gnome crap
[22:45] <Bricker> yes networkmanager is running, but ethernet is plugged in as well
[22:46] <reisio> that should be the file, the one you mentioned
[22:46] <reisio> Bricker: well it'll prefer wired over wireless, most likely
[22:46] <polarbear> would anyone recomend to change the swappiness and enable write caching?
[22:46] <reisio> Guest75891: could be an unavoidable dep based on how the package was configured/built, then
[22:46] <Bricker> yeah, only reason I plugged in the ethernet was to gain access back, as wireless wasnt working
[22:46] <reisio> Guest75891: could potentially build on your own
[22:46] <Bricker> this box is going to be deployed without ethernet
[22:46] <reisio> polarbear: for certain situations, yes
[22:46] <Bricker> which is the problem
[22:47] <reisio> Bricker: that sounds like an altogether unrelated problem, though
[22:47] <polarbear> well running 4gb ram and ssd, would u recomend or leave default?
[22:47] <Guest75891> if I install all the gnome crap, will it hurt my system?
[22:47] <Bricker> Im not following
[22:47] <Bricker> if wireless doesnt work on boot, then thats the issue
[22:47] <reisio> Guest75891: that's a good question :)
[22:48] <reisio> Guest75891: for the most part, it will just take up space, but some applications also take up resources (cpu/ram)
[22:48] <reisio> Guest75891: and some, badly made ones, can theoretically do things you don't want :p
[22:48] <Guest75891> i've read (and had a few bad experinces) with having multiple desktops installed
[22:48] <reisio> and if you're doing a server install, you do indeed not want GUI stuff
[22:48] <reisio> GUI stuff in particular, and more software than is required in general, will make a server less secure
[22:48] <Guest75891> the "server" is my desktop rig, with KDE 5 installed on it.
[22:48] <reisio> on top of less performant :p
[22:48] <Bricker> the whole point was to make the system boot without needing a monitor, which is where xorg.conf came in. When that happens, system boots (when wired) and everything works. if wired isnt there, i dont know if system boots or not, because i cant plug a monitor in to see what happened. but i know its not responding so networking isnt working
[22:48] <reisio> okay, so not so big a deal
[22:49] <Ralbalu> weather applet broken?
[22:49] <Guest75891> Bricker: can't you just ping it?
[22:49] <MonkeyDust> Guest75891  if you don't want gnome, install kubuntu, xubuntu, lubuntu ...
[22:49] <reisio> Bricker: should work the same without a monitor
[22:49] <akik> Bricker: here's /etc/network/interfaces configuration you could follow https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1403717 (post #5)
[22:49] <Bricker> ty
[22:50] <BL4DE> So did anyone manage to set up empathy to work with SIP calls? I managed to call from a different account, empathy rang but gave no windows or notifications to pick up the call
[22:53] <Bricker> hmm, akik, that doesnt seem to work either. it does give it a static ip etc, but cant ping out or anything. when i plug monitor in it shows wireless isnt connected
[22:53] <akik> Bricker: i'll test
[23:00] <Bricker> brb poo
[23:01] <akik> Bricker: doesn't work for me either. i've tried to find a nmcli command to start the wlan0 interface but haven't found it
[23:02] <Bricker> me either :(
[23:11] <Guest23181> anyone here?
[23:11] <Guest23181> nickname DaX
[23:11]  * dax raises an eyebrow
[23:11] <Guest23181> how can i install netbeans file i downloaded with "sh" extension
[23:12]  * hggdh considers probability of random match
[23:13] <SchrodingersScat> Guest23181: if it's a bash script you can try bash filename.sh or make it executable and ./filename.sh
[23:20] <polishdream> hello
[23:20] <polishdream> what is the most proper way of learning ubuntu OS ?
[23:23] <ElectroLex> polishdream, try a "live" version first
[23:23] <akik> polishdream: you could read https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/ubuntu-help/index.html


[16:53] <seb128> Saviq, unity8 stack depends on boost 1.60 in yakkety but 1.61 is the version is main, do you know if anyone looking at using that one/would should work on it?
[16:54] <josharenson> Saviq: I see the "enter immediately launches a session" issue... should be a quick fix. How about I make the highlight always orange for now, and then fix it in a separate branch so we can land everything?
[16:54] <Saviq> josharenson, wfm
[16:54] <Saviq> josharenson, also, note I mentioned going < with Enter (I assume, there's no highlight around <) also launched the session here
[16:55] <Saviq> seb128, lemme try and go down the dep graph
[16:55] <josharenson> Saviq: ah the header isn't highlightable. How many different DEs do you have installed
[16:56] <Saviq> josharenson, 4 show up
[16:56] <josharenson> Saviq: either nothing is highlighted (which is a bug) or something not visible is highlighted (which is a bug) but they header is never highlighted
[16:56] <josharenson> (header [16:56] <Saviq> josharenson, might be
[16:56] <josharenson> Saviq: looking into it and making everything orange
[16:57] <josharenson> mterry: some questions about your session-lightdm branch
[16:59] <josharenson> mterry: I'm still seeing the normal unity7 lockscreen when switching users?
[17:01] <Saviq> josharenson, that's internal to unity7
[17:02] <Saviq> it's inside your session (as in unity8 when the greeter's built-in)
[17:02] <josharenson> Saviq: I know, just wondering how mterry was switching users when seeing a lightdm crash (although now that you mention it, he told me it happened regardless of the greeter)
[17:02] <Saviq> ah ack
[17:03] <Saviq> seb128, boost is used across the board, from mir through platform to API guys
[17:03] <Saviq> I suppose a coordinated migration is in order
[17:09] <seb128> Saviq, k, can you get that on some board or talk to whoever can¿
[17:09] <seb128> ?
[17:09] <Saviq> seb128, only question is, can we? thinking vivid and xenial?
[17:09] <seb128> well, if not talk to doko/steve about how we deal with 1.60/61
[17:18] <Saviq> seb128, you say 1.60 in yakkety, we only have 1.58 in vivid, so I suppose we don't have versioned B-Ds, just we need rebuilds so that 1.61 gets picked up?
[17:18] <Saviq> also only 1.58 in xenial
[17:21] <Saviq> ok looks like we just need rebuilds of a few things
[17:23] <Saviq> seb128, can we just push no-change rebuilds to yakkety directly then?
[17:24] <seb128> Saviq, I guess we can
[17:25] <Saviq> seb128, seems like we're not the first ones
[17:25] <Saviq> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-scopes-api/1.0.6+16.10.20160617-0ubuntu2
[17:25] <Saviq> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thumbnailer/2.4+16.10.20160719-0ubuntu2
[17:25] <seb128> k, good
[17:25] <seb128> so should naturally migrate as things land
[17:25] <seb128> thanks Saviq!
[17:25] <Saviq> except they fail to builds
[17:25] <Saviq> -s
[17:25] <Saviq> need bugs for that
[17:26] <Saviq> and libphonenumber on top of those two, that's the only three I found still dep'ing on 1.60
[17:26] <Saviq> filing a bug that they fail to build then
[17:29] <Saviq> seb128, and even being handled in the MIR bug #1613561 #1612461
[17:29] <Saviq> and I believe Ken is releasing a libphonenumber
[17:29] <Saviq> seb128, so all in all, I think it's being worked on, assuming people look at their MIR requests
[18:07] <seb128> Saviq, great, thanks for checking
[18:35] <mterry> Is there an easy way to restrict the normal qml focus chain to one widget hierarchy?  Like, normally Tab will go to the natural next widget, no matter where it lives.  But I want a TabFocusScope style widget to keep it inside its own bubble and wrap around inside that scope...
[18:36] <mterry> (my use case is keeping Tabs inside Shell in tst_Shell.qml and not have it escape to the controls on the right, to more properly emulate real tab conditions)
[18:42] <Saviq> wtf... adds on doc.qt.io search page... https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/search-results.html?q=focusscope
[18:42] <Saviq> mterry, anyway, doesn't FocusScope do it?
[18:43] <mterry> Saviq: I don't see ads there
[18:43] <mterry> Saviq: no it doesn't seem to
[18:43] <mterry> Saviq: and I don't think it should?  Like if you tab on the last element of a FocusScope, I think the expectation is that you go wherever the next focusable item is, even outside it
[18:44] <mterry> But I've never grokked qml focus
[18:44] <Saviq> mterry, TBH I didn't know there was any magic about Tabbing
[18:44] <Saviq> mterry, but I suppose https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qml-qtquick-keynavigation.html is a place to start
[18:44] <mterry> Saviq: there is an activeFocusOnTab property, that's false by default for everything
[18:44] <mterry> Saviq: and you can set it to be true if you want to be in the focus chain
[18:45] <mterry> which seems to be the "easy" way to do tabbing -- you can do keynavigation if you know all the elements that should be in the chain
[18:45] <mterry> But if you are putting together elements that don't know each other, activeFocusOnTab seems like a more natural fit
[18:45] <mterry> But man, there are so many qml focus properties and schemes
[18:46] <mterry> I get lost on what the best way to do focus is
[18:58] <josharenson> mterry: So SessionsList is forwarding return presses to GreeterPrompt (WideView->LoginList->GreeterPrompt->PromptButton) which causes a passwordless user to instantly login when return is pressed on the SessionsList
[18:58] <josharenson> follow all that?
[18:59] <mterry> I think...
[18:59] <josharenson> mterry: There are several ways this could be handled, none of which I'm happy about as they don't address the issue of why the event is being forwarded, even though SessionsList is accepting it
[18:59] <mterry> via..
[18:59] <mterry>         Keys.onReturnPressed: {
[18:59] <mterry>             sessionChooserButtonClicked();
[18:59] <mterry>             event.accepted = true;
[18:59] <mterry>         }
[18:59] <mterry> right?
[18:59] <josharenson> mterry: yeah, has no effect
[18:59] <josharenson> mterry: well not for this at least
[19:00] <josharenson> mterry: GreeterPrompt sets focus on the button and sends it the returnPressed event
[19:01] <mterry> That would normally make sense, but we don't know why GreeterPrompt gets the return event?
[19:01] <josharenson> mterry: correct... could be considering it as a mouse press I guess
[19:01] <josharenson> maybe just need to eat mouse events
[19:02] <mterry> josharenson: could the handling of sessionChooserButtonClicked be doing something we don't like?
[19:02] <mterry> josharenson: if you move accepting the event up before that, might it help prevent that? (if that's going on at all)
[19:03] <mterry> Me and qml events have never understood each other
[19:03] <josharenson> mterry: I tried that
[19:03] <josharenson> lol
[19:03] <mterry> josharenson: if you simply comment out that clicked signal, does it still happen?
[19:03] <mterry> i.e. are we doing it, or is qml?
[19:03] <josharenson> mterry: no. If I prevent the prompt button from automatically gaining focus, it doesn't happen either
[19:03] <josharenson> mterry: I think its qml
[19:05] <josharenson> mterry: I can probably solve this by adding a variable, but seems hacky
[19:05] <mterry> yeah...
[19:05] <josharenson> mterry: LoginList and SessionsList are siblings, so accepting the event only prevents the parent from getting it...
[19:06]  * josharenson thinking out loud
[19:06] <mterry> josharenson: a not unreasonable thing to do is to make LoginList enabled=false when handling onSessionChooserButtonClicked...  That might fix this as a side effect (and any other weird focus/quick-typing issues while we swap widgets)
[19:07] <mterry> I guess that could be a propertychange on the State
[19:08] <josharenson> mterry: no effect... I keep getting that feeling that I'm running the exe from the wrong branch directory or something (cause nothing is having an effect), but its not the case :-p
[19:11] <josharenson> mterry: going the hack route for now...
[19:11] <mterry> josharenson: yeah sorry I don't know what might be going on  :(
[19:11] <mterry> I have my own tab-focus mysteries going on right now that I don't understnad
[19:12] <josharenson> mterry: yeah, its weird... haha
[19:13] <mterry> josharenson: actually -- here's a tip I just now found out.  Items have a activeFocusOnTab property that if you set to true, it automatically puts it into the default tab focus chain.  So you don't need to manually hook things up with KeyNavigation.tab
[19:14] <josharenson> mterry: that could help clean up 1 line of code by adding 1 additional line :-p ... certainly cleaner tho
[19:14] <mterry> josharenson: heh.  Yeah, just not needing to know the id of the next one is a bit nicer
[19:15] <josharenson> mterry: and the logic is in the right place too, I'll update this branch
[19:58] <ltinkl-u8> ChrisTownsend, ping pls :)
[19:59] <ChrisTownsend> ltinkl-u8: Hey!
[19:59] <ltinkl-u8> ChrisTownsend, cool \o/


[00:16] <Lucas__> portuguese ?
[05:56] <talonz> anyone got any recomendations on miracast dongles theres so many out there
[06:12] <zub> Hi. I tried to build a mir hello-world app with ubuntu sdk chroot. On my phone I have rc-proposed. The chroot I used was ubuntu-sdk-15.04. But in the chroot there's libmirclient.so.8 while on the phone I have libmirclient.so.9. What is the correct chroot to use with rc-proposed?
[07:14] <tuttle955i> Hello, Meizu Pro5 here
[07:15] <tuttle955i> Derek crashes after each use, where should I report this
[07:15] <tuttle955i> Dekko *
[07:16] <tuttle955i> Not Derek, he rarely crashes
[07:22] <altker128> https://www.mentor.com/pcb/downloads/oda-xpedition?cmpid=9049
[07:22] <altker128> oops, sorry
[08:39] <tuttle955i> Found the answer in #dekko
[08:40] <tuttle955i> Delete ~/.cach/dekko* and ~/.local/share/dekko*
[09:15] <mimecar> good morning
[11:37] <gilly_> mornin :]
[11:38] <mimecar> good morning gilly_
[12:02] <moritz311> Hey guy, have someone some experience in kernel building ?
[12:02] <mimecar> I don't moritz311
[12:06] <moritz311> mimecar: no problem
[18:24] <Howard__> Howdy !
[18:25] <popey> hello
[18:25] <mimecar> hi Howard__
[18:26] <Howard__> popey, Just watched the latest Q&A with you and the Meixu 5 - shame there are none left to buy, now.
[18:26] <mimecar> xD
[18:26] <Howard__> wat does xD mean ?
[18:27] <mimecar> something similar to lol
[18:27] <mimecar> let me find the 'xD' on Google
[18:28] <Howard__> ok right, I thought you were being immature, for a second there, cheers.
[18:28] <mimecar> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=emoticon
[18:28] <mimecar> you can read the meaning on that link
[18:29] <Howard__> =_=
[18:32] <Howard__> popey, I've seen an Ubuntu phone on ebayUK.
[18:52] <popey> Howard__: there's a few
[18:57] <altker128> MeizuPro 5 is out of stock or?
[19:07] <popey> indeed http://www.joybuy.com/1104324.html
[19:10] <popey> no ubuntu pro 5's on ebay :)
[19:11] <altker128> Well, honestly that's a good thing it's out of stock. It means it's selling :)
[19:11]  * popey hugs his pro 5
[19:11] <altker128> What about the Pro4?
[19:12] <altker128> Is that still available?  Seems like that's a pretty capable device too
[19:23] <svij> altker128: the MX4 is sold old for a long time already.
[19:29] <Howard__> I hate the fact you can't actually buy a Pro 5 - what's the point in bunting otherwise ? Any alternatives that stack up against the Pro 5 ?
[19:30] <jj_> probably in the near future
[19:30] <jj_> probably from BQ also
[19:31] <altker128> Howard__: What do you meant can' t buy the Pro5?  Wasn't it available through JD?
[19:31] <jj_> its OOS :)
[19:31] <jj_> it's*
[19:31] <altker128> Yeah, but that's not a permanent condition
[19:31] <altker128> Is it?
[19:31] <jj_> *shrugs* it could be
[19:31] <altker128> Why?  Didn't they just release the device?
[19:31] <popey> They make them in limited numbers it seems
[19:32] <popey> and they sell out fast
[19:32] <jj_> yes. but it went out of stock VERY quickly from what i observed
[19:32] <Howard__> troo.
[19:33] <popey> Sadly not up to us how many they sell
[19:33] <altker128> I think the fact it went out of stock is a good thing, it means demand is high and they will make more
[19:34] <moritz311> would like to see an device simple as the ipad air with ubuntu in the future :) that would be really great
[19:34] <altker128> Meizu could easily make a tablet with the same guts as the Pro5.  It's not like the requirements are much (any?) different
[19:35] <popey> I don't think Meizu make tablets
[19:36] <moritz311> maybe they will in the future :D
[19:37] <Howard__> must be some kinda inner-favouritism that popey got one and I didn't is my pontification :)
[19:37] <jj_> do you guys think that Meizu is well invested in the whole Ubuntu Phone thing? I mean when i get a bq product , inside and out it's ubuntu focused. with meizu, it still ships with the flyme manual :/
[19:38] <jj_> or maybe it's just me :D
[19:38] <Howard__> no its not just you.
[19:38] <Howard__> i get it.
[19:38] <altker128> jj_: It's a gamble, they're not going to put much marketing effort behind it unless Ubuntu variants sell well and demand is high.
[19:39] <jj_> but Bq does, to a certain extent
[19:39]  * Howard__ wonders where is the bug that stops his Nexu 4 from turning on first time he/she hits the button on the side.
[19:39] <Howard__> **Nexus 4
[19:40] <altker128> Howard__: N4 on Ubuntu touch?
[19:40] <moritz311> will put some more effort in porting to my tablet and then try a bit out
[19:40] <Howard__> I'm off - I'll read the logs for that answer later - bye guys. Yes Nexus 4 w/ Ubuntu Touch.
[19:40] <Howard__> o/
[19:41] <jj_> *waves*
[19:41] <altker128> Howard__: Is it a single event or is it always there?
[19:41] <dobey> you mean, power on as in boot, or power on as in toggle the screen on/off?
[19:41] <Howard__> oh wait - fans ...
[19:42] <Howard__> well, its the power button on the RHSide.
[19:42] <dobey> i know where the power button is
[19:42] <Howard__> well its that one :)
[19:42] <dobey> i mean are you trying to boot the phone on, or is the screen just disabled with the phone asleep
[19:43] <Howard__> 2nd one.
[19:43] <dobey> my nexus4 doesn't seem to have such a problem. but it happens all the time on my nexus 5 where the screen won't come on right away
[19:44] <dobey> could either be a bug in the code that handles the button itself, or a bug in power management bits. not sure
[19:44] <Howard__> how do i update, again ?
[19:44] <Howard__> I think I'm  still on 10.
[19:44] <dobey> system settings -> updates
[19:45] <Howard__> got it. "SW up to date" :)
[19:46] <Howard__> right off to the party/ball , bye guys.
[19:48] <moritz311> have someone some basic kernel know how ?
[19:51] <altker128> moritz311: What does that mean?
[19:52] <moritz311> yeah i get an errror when enabling CONFIG_ANDROID_RAM_CONSOLE, but don't know a way to fix it
[20:04] <zub> moritz311: (guessing from experience with other non-ubuntu embedded kernels) maybe you need to explictly turn som other options on? In device-patched kernels I've seen situation that 'unexpected' options were broken - would not pull in things they needed or sometimes the code wouldn't compile as nobody tried and cared
[20:05] <zub> I'm having troule installing ubuntu sdk chroot. I run 'sudo click chroot -a armhf -f ubuntu-sdk-15.04 create' and it fails on me with The following packages have unmet dependencies: ubuntu-sdk-libs:armhf : Depends: liboxideqt-qmlplugin:armhf but it is not going to be installed'
[20:06] <zub> I think it's caused by broken dependencies. Is this bugreport-worthy? Against what package? ubuntu-sdk-libs?
[20:08] <moritz311> zub:
[20:08] <moritz311> sony/msm8974/drivers/staging/android/ram_console.c:58:2: error: implicit declaration of function 'persistent_ram_init_ringbuffer' [-Werror=implicit-function-declaration]
[20:08] <moritz311>   prz = persistent_ram_init_ringbuffer(&pdev->dev, true);
[20:09] <moritz311> this is the error easy to know why, but the funny thing is that no kernel implement that function so the question is how they all get /proc/last_kmsg working ?
[20:13] <zub> moritz311: some googling tells me there used to be persistent_ram_init_ringbufer function in upstream 3.4 and in 3.5 where it's been moved
[20:15] <zub> moritz311: http://lxr.free-electrons.com/ident?v=3.4;i=persistent_ram_init_ringbuffer & http://lxr.free-electrons.com/ident?v=3.5;i=persistent_ram_init_ringbuffer it used to be present in upstream
[20:17] <moritz311> mhhhhh
[20:17] <moritz311> is there maybe a reason why it is removed from msm kernel files ?
[20:21] <zub> no idea :(
[20:21] <zub> I don't know the msm kernel
[20:25] <moritz311> zub: mhh okay .... no idea how to debug why it isn't booting .... but thanks for your help :)
[20:26] <zub> moritz311: perhaps talk to some android guys, they might have more experience
[20:26] <moritz311> yeah have some little contact to mariogrip :)
[22:15] <mariogrip> mhall119: ping