[01:02] <Myrtti> oh dear, is it that late AGAIN
[01:03] <Pici> aparrently.
[01:44] <Pici> webmin
[01:44] <Pici> !webmin
[01:58] <jdong> ah, it was fun while it lasted though.
[02:30] <Pici> pre-emptive ban on killb0t
[02:30] <nalioth> good call
[02:30] <mneptok> Pici: pre-emptive? he was pasting "Le Chason De Roland" (i think)
[02:30] <mneptok> *Chanson
[02:32] <mneptok> OK, it was "The Mountain Wreath"
[02:32] <Pici> mneptok: Also set a ban in #ubuntu actually, its rare that we get a flooder in -ot that hasn't already tried in #u or is going to.
[02:33] <Pici> Yeah, http://www.njegos.org/petrovics/wreath.htm#summit
[02:33] <mneptok> an equally anti-Islam polemic
[02:33] <mneptok> *le sigh*
[02:34] <Pici> And google actually made another hit for someone pasting the same thing in an irc channel...
[02:34] <Pici> And I just noticed that it was from irclogs.ubuntu.com
[02:35] <nalioth> it meets the profile for the 'large text spammer'
[02:38] <Pici> ooh...
[05:14] <gnomefreak> when are we reopening #ubuntu+1 im already using it ;)
[06:06] <bazhang> someone should ban m0niker in -ot
[06:06] <Flannel> +1
[06:07] <Flannel> eh, +1/2
[07:31] <bazhang> @bansearch ward1983
[07:55] <bazhang> got to work, back later
[07:55] <ikonia> laters
[08:03] <Flannel> Poor Kinote, after that "ignore" comment he's being assaulted with suggestions.  I'll cut him some slack and let you all answer him ;)
[08:06] <ikonia> I think his hardware is just failing
[08:06] <Flannel> I agree
[08:07] <Flannel> I imagine the optical drive that he's having failures with is the same bus as the harddrive he's having issues with.
[08:07] <Flannel> probably same IDE cable
[08:07] <ikonia> Flannel: concur
[08:12] <ikonia> leejongwook was on #ubuntu yesterday as a different user - his behaviour is a bit odd he persistantly asks "where he is" but also seems to know
[08:18] <Flannel> ikonia: the seemingly arbitrary "abc"s are interesting
[08:18] <Flannel> oh
[08:20] <ikonia> agreed
[08:20]  * Flannel didn't get one in query though.
[08:20] <ikonia> I did
[08:20] <Flannel> He's learnign irssi, it could very well be that he's purely confused.
[08:21] <Flannel> although, accidentally querying in irssi is... difficult
[08:21] <ikonia> saying abc 10 times is not learning
[08:21] <Flannel> no, I agree.
[08:22] <elkbuntu> forward him to fixyourconnection or something, see if he figures it out :P
[08:23] <ikonia> ahh now we are getting something
[08:26] <Flannel> EF_Codd was... interestingly short lived in #u
[09:15] <ikonia> morning all
[09:16] <Flannel> Howdy ikonia
[09:17]  * elkbuntu pigs out on veggie kourma.
[09:17] <ikonia> good to be off the train although it's an interesting chance to try out mobile broadbannd
[09:19] <Flannel> elkbuntu: You're not supposed to eat the karma of vegetarians, its not nice.
[09:20] <elkbuntu> Flannel, i'm considering going ovo-lacto-pescatarian at home. i eat meat most lunchtimes. it's too much to do it at home as well.
[09:20] <elkbuntu> translation: (egg, dairy, fish)
[09:21]  * Flannel hands elkbuntu a set of glasses.
[09:21] <elkbuntu> even though i can probably get away without the pesca too, i loves my prawns, and fried rice isnt the same without.
[09:21] <elkbuntu> Flannel, why?
[09:21] <Flannel> elkbuntu: I said nothing about you not eating meat
[09:22] <elkbuntu> ikonia, a good network can stay connected even on the train
[09:22] <elkbuntu> Flannel, why the glasses though?
[09:22] <Flannel> elkbuntu: So you can see without fuzziness?
[09:22] <Flannel> not drinking glasses, eye glasses.
[09:22] <elkbuntu> what fuzziness?
[09:22] <Flannel> nothing.
[09:23] <elkbuntu> i'm totally not following this...
[09:23] <Flannel> elkbuntu: eating the *karma* of vegetarians, not being a vegetarian, and not eating korma either.
[09:24] <Flannel> Its not really important though
[09:24] <elkbuntu> good, because it seems i'm too tired to interpret
[09:27] <elkbuntu> oh hold on, i think i get it. you thought i was thinking you were picking on me for not eating meat?
[09:28] <elkbuntu> i wasnt, i was just ranting. i put all my major life decisions through the ops filter -- you didnt know?
[09:29] <ikonia>  elkbuntu hence why it was interesting for me to try
[09:31] <elkbuntu> ikonia, the only place in sydney i know which is reliably sans-internet is the underground. and i only reguarly commute through about 1/3 of that, which is 2 stops.
[09:32] <ikonia> elkbuntu: well I did the london main commute route today and lost signal 2 times, which was quite good,
[09:32] <elkbuntu> even telstra's coverage only reliably covers the platforms there, afaik.
[10:15] <Myrtti> ubottu: tell MestariM about register
[10:15] <Myrtti> damnit
[10:18] <elkbuntu> heh.
[10:19] <ikonia> @bansearch kfc
[10:19] <ikonia> Hmmm I know that nick for some reason
[10:19] <Myrtti> I need to figure out how to do a group registration and I also need to think of what namespace...
[10:19] <Myrtti> bah
[10:20] <elkbuntu> hrm, apparantly 'sour sweaty BO smell' plus my deodorant/cheap_nasty_perfume_can_stuff smells like fruit yoghurt.
[10:20] <Myrtti> elkbuntu: handy
[10:20] <elkbuntu> so, i now smell like i've taken a bath in yoghurt.
[10:20] <Myrtti> nomnomnom
[10:21]  * Myrtti thinks of lemon yoghurt chocolate bar, drools
[10:21] <elkbuntu> would probably not be quite so nom as yoghurt.
[10:22] <elkbuntu> i is so full now. too much vegie curry
[10:22] <elkbuntu> if you can actually call kourma 'curry'.
[10:23] <elkbuntu> LjL, btw, i suspect it's probably that time in the lifecycle of any party where the passed out guests need to be carried outside.
[11:06]  * Myrtti grunts
[11:33] <ikonia> has tehre been any activity on the -irc mail list recently?
[11:35] <elkbuntu> not since paul's towel.
[11:39] <ikonia> ok, that's my last mail too
[11:40] <ikonia> just checking
[12:14] <bazhang> Limcore is on notice.
[12:14] <elkbuntu> bazhang, a real notice or the same type he always gets?
[12:15] <bazhang> elkbuntu, next time will be a long ban; he entered the channel #ubuntu with something very inappropriate. I just missed it.
[12:16] <ikonia> I'd have kicked and remoevd him for that
[12:16] <ikonia> we've had a public "last warning in here" a while ago
[12:17] <ikonia> I feel a need to enforce it with limcore as it's never going to change on his last last last last warning
[12:17] <bazhang> If I had seen it in time I would have; I will gladly do so now.
[12:17] <ikonia> no no, it's gone now
[12:17] <ikonia> can't really do it retrospectivly now
[12:17] <bazhang> if others present concur
[12:18] <ikonia> but for my view - and I say it publicly so it's logged in this channel, limcore's behaviour should not be tollerated futher - and I'm half tempted to request a perm ban on him
[12:19] <bazhang> several months at the very least imo
[12:19] <ikonia> he's had that
[12:19] <ikonia> it doesn't sink in
[12:19] <elkbuntu> 15 mins before an op notices should never be a get out of jail free card for stuff as clearly and intentionally inappropriate as that.
[12:19] <ikonia> screw it
[12:19] <bazhang> okay
[12:20] <ikonia> I've muted him and I'll ask him waht happened about the little chat I had with him (logged in BT for the record)
[12:20] <ikonia> elkbuntu: thank you for that, I agree with you, but always feel too harsh enforcing it
[12:21] <bazhang> I got distracted for a moment with the Palin 2012 spammer
[12:21] <elkbuntu> ikonia, i get to pull rank in times like these, in a way :)
[12:22] <ikonia> bazhang: I was grabbing lunch
[12:23] <jussi01> hello all!
[12:23]  * jussi01 thwacks ikonia...
[12:23] <ikonia> morning sleepy
[12:23] <bazhang> nice.
[12:23] <jussi01> ikonia: is your phone on silent?
[12:24] <bazhang> limcore is messaging vincent_
[12:24] <ikonia> ooh
[12:24] <ikonia> hang on
[12:24] <ikonia> I put it on train
[12:24] <jussi01> hehe
[12:25] <jussi01> I went to bath for a bit, had a wander round :D
[12:25] <ikonia> ahh cool
[12:26] <jussi01> I had to steal your cord from the dell - the adapter didnt work :(
[12:26] <ikonia> rats
[12:26] <ikonia> no problem
[12:26] <ikonia> as long as you don't leave with it as I don't have a spare
[12:26] <jussi01> when will you be back?
[12:26] <jussi01> hehe
[12:26] <jussi01> I wontr
[12:27] <bazhang> have to grab dinner back in a bit
[12:27] <ikonia> jussi01: looking like 3pm just waiting for green light from a meeting I'm in to be canceld then I'll leave
[12:27] <jussi01> ok
[12:30] <Hobbsee> Out of general curiousity, did the #kubuntu-kde4 --> #kubuntu switch work well?
[12:31] <elkbuntu> not a clue
[12:36] <jussi01> yes
[12:37] <jussi01> Hobbsee: it went perfectly
[12:37] <Hobbsee> jussi01: \o/
[12:37] <jussi01> there were one ot two little, "but I liked #kubuntu-kde4" complaints, but that happens with any change :)
[12:38] <ikonia> change is bad !
[12:40] <jussi01> hahhah
[12:46] <ikonia> jussi01: what did you go to see ?
[12:46]  * jussi01 bought a gobstopper the size of a cricket ball today...mind you, How it goes into anyones mouth is beyond me...
[12:46] <jussi01> ikonia: wandered round the baths arean, had a coffee at boston tea party, went to the "humbug" shop,
[12:47] <ikonia> ahh
[12:51] <elkbuntu> well, seems limcore isnt going to argue the point, so i'm off to bed.
[12:52] <jussi01> nini
[12:54] <ikonia> elkbuntu: he had a go at me in pm asking "why" but same old same old "why is getting laid rude" " ar eyou a christian republican or something" etc etc
[12:54] <elkbuntu> in other words, completely ignoring the whole point.
[12:56] <ikonia> yup
[12:56] <ikonia> so I walked away
[12:56] <Hobbsee> heh heh heh.
[12:57] <Hobbsee> I'm sure even christian republicans don't have a problem with people getting laid, either.  Especially their own.
[12:57] <Hobbsee> crazy guy.  I wonder if he's going to start up in -bugs, and be given a holiday in there too.
[12:58] <ikonia> Hobbsee: been quiet as a mouse, thats the thing that frustrates me, his last posts in -bugs where pretty reasonable and half through through
[12:59] <Hobbsee> ikonia: except for the usual logic of "it's broken for me, therefore it's an epic failure of ubuntu" including lots of handwaving
[12:59] <ikonia> Hobbsee I said half thought thorugh
[12:59] <ikonia> thorugh
[12:59] <ikonia> through even
[12:59]  * Hobbsee has noticed a disturbing trend of unreproducable bugs from people who tend to try any solution that they can possibly find, and "tweak" their system as much as possible.
[13:00] <Hobbsee> especially when they follow forums howtos.
[13:00] <Hobbsee> particularly in regards to pulseaudio not working in intrepid, if they "fixed" it via the forums methods in hardy.
[13:00] <ikonia> I agre, some of the howto's and guides, like the guy who was advertising on planet ubuntu (ubuntugeek is it) was just dangerous
[13:02] <ikonia> ha ha, I think he's just been kicked from #gentoo
[13:07] <LimCore> hi
[13:07] <LimCore> I agreed that commenting ubuntu quality is not wellcommed on most ubuntu channels
[13:07] <LimCore> but now I see that making jokes that are not "christian" safe is not wellcomed either. What is about that?
[13:08] <Hobbsee> LimCore: define how being christian relates to it at all?
[13:08] <LimCore> even ##linux forgo that extreme purist (good word?) policy
[13:08] <LimCore> well, I have a trouble to find correct expression in english
[13:08] <LimCore> it is the notion that any thing related to sex is offensive/bad/evil/etc
[13:09] <Myrtti> how does sex has to do with ubuntu problems?
[13:09] <Myrtti> sex/gender/religion
[13:09] <LimCore> it was offtopic indeed.  But I was told it was rude, I don't agree
[13:09] <Hobbsee> Myrtti: because if you solve enough ubuntu problems, you deserve to get laid, apparently.
[13:09] <Myrtti> Hobbsee: ah, right.
[13:09] <Myrtti> Where can I sign up?
[13:10] <LimCore> Myrtti: I was banned for asking that quiestion
[13:10] <ikonia> LimCore lets cut to the chase
[13:10] <Myrtti> sorry, I'm having a slant day
[13:10] <Hobbsee> Myrtti: what LimCore doesn't appear to realise is that a whole lot of people who work on the project don't *wish* to get laid by random people, nor do they particularly appreciate repeated questions along that line.
[13:10] <Myrtti> speaking of which
[13:10] <ikonia> LimCore: you know the rules, you where offtopic and disruptive to the channel as normal - we have spoke about this and you just can't be in a channel with out being a distuption
[13:10] <LimCore> Hobbsee: so you say this joke is actually abusive?  *really* ?
[13:10] <Myrtti> I've got that Egyptian 18-y-o stalker on my pm again
[13:11] <Hobbsee> LimCore: i've had enough people make "joking" comments about laying people, and other things in a sexual realm, to last me until next millenium.
[13:11] <LimCore> also, I was asking for *myself*, since Im close to karma 1000 (yey)
[13:11] <Hobbsee> LimCore: it's not a joke if you've heard it hundreds of times before, right?  For anyone
[13:11] <ikonia> LimCore that doesn't matter
[13:11] <LimCore> Hobbsee: ok but I was asking for myself
[13:11] <ikonia> ikonia: is limcore a disruoption and should be banned ?
[13:11] <Hobbsee> LimCore: well, dude, perhaps you should think a little about other people, and not be so selfish.
[13:11] <ikonia> ikonia: yes he should
[13:11] <Myrtti> thank god these people know me
[13:11] <ikonia> thats fine, I've just confirmed it with myself
[13:12] <LimCore> Hobbsee: what do you mean by that
[13:12] <Hobbsee> LimCore: just because you want to get laid doesn't mean you should be allowed to sexually harass other people, collectively or singularly, in the ubuntu project.
[13:12] <Hobbsee> Including with your "jokes"
[13:12] <LimCore> Hobbsee: this is true
[13:13] <Hobbsee> if you're that desperate, i'm sure that there are prostitutes in most countries.
[13:13] <Myrtti> now here's a hilarious thought. Perhaps I should hook up ASUS-tek with my virtual stalker
[13:13] <LimCore> but I totally do not see this in absolutelly any way harrasing
[13:13] <Hobbsee> who will be happy to service you, as you desire.
[13:14] <LimCore> Hobbsee: thanks, I know, I use this option when needed \o/ but can we get back to my question - was this comment really abusive?   A lot of the "jokes" often have higher implications.  And of course, if you want to welcome people to your project...
[13:14] <ikonia> people didn't want to see it
[13:15] <Hobbsee> well, not your project
[13:15] <Hobbsee> to *the* project
[13:15] <Pici> In addition, you were already on thin ice due to previous misconduct in our channels.
[13:15] <Hobbsee> then that's not the way you behave.
[13:15] <LimCore> Pici: yes I stoped saying what do I think about quality of some ubuntu packages, as requested
[13:15] <ikonia> LimCore that wasn't the request
[13:15] <Hobbsee> except for -bugs earlier, apparently.
[13:15] <ikonia> LimCore: you where ask to stop being rude/offensive/disruption/ranting
[13:16] <LimCore> I honestly did not think this was rude or abusive.
[13:16] <ikonia> LimCore: you where also pointed at the irc guidelines and coc
[13:16] <ikonia> LimCore: but you knew it was offtopic and still did it
[13:16] <ikonia> so you acn be banned for being offensive or offtopic - its up to you
[13:16] <LimCore> so any sex related jokes ARE considered abusive then?   Then, why?
[13:16] <Hobbsee> LimCore: did you *actually* think about how comments like that would make people feel welcomed to the project?
[13:17] <Hobbsee> LimCore: dude, because people don't want to sleep with you.  They don't want consistent implications of you wanting to sleep with them, either.
[13:17] <Hobbsee> LimCore: Shoudln't people get the right *just* to do FOSS without having to put up with that sort of crap?
[13:17] <Hobbsee> Same for anyone and everyone who asks things related to that.
[13:17] <LimCore> I think we are making a big deal from a small joke that passes as ok on most (all?) top-10 channels here.  Why is that
[13:18] <Hobbsee> Hell, making consistent remarks about black people woudl be the same thing, i'm sure.
[13:18] <Hobbsee> LimCore: I think you probably need to go away, and have a think about how to make people feel welcome to a project, and how you should behave
[13:19] <Hobbsee> because now you apparently don't get it
[13:20] <LimCore> but Myrtti just above make same joke and it is suddenly ok, which increases my feeling that this judgment of same joke when done by me is not objective
[13:20] <Hobbsee> I think you'll find that she booted herself just after that, deciding it was inappropriate.
[13:21] <LimCore> why this is a problem on #ubuntu and not on other channels here?
[13:21] <Pici> Because we don't manage the other channels?
[13:21]  * Hobbsee ntoes you're grasping at straws here.
[13:21] <LimCore> Hobbsee: I ment this as:  perhaps you are a bit over reacting in this manner - so I wonder is there any speciall reason for it that I should take into account
[13:22] <bazhang> LimCore, no
[13:22] <bazhang> LimCore, it is not an over-reaction.
[13:22] <Hobbsee> LimCore: based on the fact that others don't seem to be disagreeing here....
[13:22] <bazhang> LimCore, quit while you are behind
[13:23] <Hobbsee> LimCore: I think the fact that no one seems to be agreeing with you, *at all*, not in #ubuntu, and not here, suggests that you're the one in the wrong.
[13:24] <LimCore> did any user said he felt offended?
[13:24] <bazhang> LimCore, you have a long history of being very denigrating towards the ubuntu project; this is just one more--even further egregious--example of it.
[13:24] <Pici> bazhang: +1
[13:24] <bazhang> ikonia, PM?
[13:25] <ikonia> always
[13:25] <Pici> Well said
[13:25] <Hobbsee> LimCore: most people can manage to actually obey a topic, unlike yourself apparently, so, no, they wouldn't have mentioned it there.
[13:25] <Hobbsee> anyway, you're just wasting time - you won't be let back in, indefinetly.
[13:27] <bazhang> is this only for #ubuntu Hobbsee ?
[13:28] <Hobbsee> bazhang: so far.
[13:28] <bazhang> he is in -bugs as well I see.
[13:28] <Hobbsee> bazhang: he didn't make such comments in there.
[13:28] <LimCore> he is right here, btw
[13:28] <bazhang> okay thanks
[13:28]  * Hobbsee has been watching bugs, and will continue to, though.
[13:29] <bazhang> LimCore, please /part now
[13:29] <LimCore> ok fine, I'm resposible for all the evil, and my comment hurt thousands of people, whatever, neh
[13:29] <Hobbsee> while a channel-wide ban might certainly be nice, i think it's probably a little heavy handed currently.
[13:30] <Hobbsee> Of course, if he decides to start disobeying other channel topics (such as asking for support in -bugs), then I can't see a reason why he wouldn't get a holiday from there...
[13:53] <bazhang> rage, how may we help you
[13:54] <rage> Hello, ermm, I appear to be banned from #ubuntu, I'm using an ip that is common to a server, creep.bur.st
[13:56] <bazhang> rage, when were you first banned?
[13:56] <rage> Not 100% sure, I havent logged in for about 5-6 days
[13:56] <bazhang> rage, did you go by other nick perhaps?
[13:56] <rage> Nope,
[13:56] <rage> As I said, I'm on a shared IP, its possible someone else was abusive
[13:56] <ikonia> rage: I can see the ban on your host
[13:57] <LjL> rage, is the server managed by you?
[13:57] <ikonia> rage: who do you share it with
[13:57] <rage> Nope
[13:57] <bazhang> EF_Codd perhaps?
[13:57] <LjL> rage, is "identd" running as root on the server?
[13:57] <rage> about 20-30 people
[13:57] <rage> As far as I'm aware yes
[13:57] <LjL> rage: wait a minute please
[13:57] <rage> this is my login name for the server as well
[13:58] <ikonia> rage you said you'd not logged in for 4 - 6 days ?
[13:58] <rage> Sorry, not logged into ubuntu, I wasnt clear
[13:58] <rage> #ubuntu
[13:58] <rage> I have been in #nexenta for the last 20 hours or so
[13:58] <LjL> rage, you can join
[13:58] <rage> But otherwise yes
[13:58] <rage> I'll give it a go
[13:59] <rage> one moment
[13:59] <rage> Excellent, thank you all very much :-)
[14:00] <rage> I shall depart, thank you once again :-)
[14:00] <LjL> rage: if this happens again, please join here and point out that identd is running on the machine (also, if this happens again, consider reporting)
[14:00] <LjL> gah
[14:01] <ikonia> LjL: out of interest, was it just his ident what makde you think he was not el_cod
[14:02] <LjL> ikonia, well, the hostname definitely looks like a shell server, and in my lost, all users who joined from it were i=. so identd has been running for some time.
[14:02] <ikonia> ok
[14:02] <LjL> ikonia: if he's just a troll who's running identd on a fancy hostname... well, we'll find out soon, i guess
[14:03] <ikonia> just curious how you came to that action
[14:03] <bazhang> mahen2 is ready to go.
[14:04] <LjL> [15:01:25] <rage> Will do, the server has an anti irc abuse policy, so if someone has been misusing it they can be kicked off
[14:04] <Pici> Thats nice to hear.
[14:05] <genii-around> Good morning, afternoon, or evening
[14:05] <LjL> @mark #ubuntu-ops rage creep.bur.st ban kept by ident
[14:06] <genii-around> @login
[14:06] <genii-around> Hm
[14:06] <LjL> ikonia: oh and last but not least, rage has been in my logs since august, while the trouble started much later, when other usernames from that host joined
[14:07] <ikonia> ok. so thats pretty valid
[14:18] <jussio1> ikonia: have you got out yet?
[14:19] <ikonia> yes
[14:19] <ikonia> although please re-phrase that while in a public channel
[14:19] <ikonia> I have no wish to give the wrong idea
[14:19] <jussio1> hahahah
[14:19] <jussio1> oops
[14:20] <Pici> o.O
[14:20] <jussio1> ikonia: have you left work yet?
[14:20] <ikonia> no
[14:20] <ikonia> sat on a conference call
[14:20] <ikonia> waiting to leave
[14:20] <jussio1> ok
[14:20] <ikonia> praying to leave is more accurate
[14:20] <jussio1> hehe
[14:20] <bazhang> haha
[14:20] <ikonia> jussio1: this phone is odd
[14:21] <jussio1> damn your house is cold... :D btw, is there a new style nokia charger around?
[14:21] <Pici> My phone is sticky.  I spilled soda on it.
[14:21] <jussio1> ikonia: how "odd"?
[14:21] <bazhang> time to scrub the logs
[14:21] <ikonia> jussio1 new style chrager in the kitchen, you can turn the heating on with the white dial in the hall
[14:21] <bazhang> starting three minutes ago
[14:21] <ikonia> jussio1: feels funny as a phone, but not as bad as the blackberry
[14:21] <LjL> Pici: so now if you take notes on it you get sticky notes, nice
[14:22] <ikonia> LjL: bravo
[14:22] <ikonia> funny in any language
[14:25] <ikonia> jussio1: you may have to give me some lessons later, this is quite different to my normal setup
[14:26] <jussio1> ikonia: no probs :D
[14:28] <ikonia> jussio1: have you found the heating control ?
[14:28] <jussio1> yes :D
[14:28] <ikonia> good good
[14:37] <genii-around> Why does !info kooka   show nothing but launchpad says it exists?
[14:37] <Pici> !info kooka
[14:37] <Pici> State: not a real package
[14:37] <genii-around> Hm
[14:38] <genii-around> And yet https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/i386/kooka/4:3.5.9-0ubuntu1
[14:39] <jussi01> !info skanlite | genii-around
[14:39] <Pici> genii-around: Theres no Intrepid downloads for that, only hardy.
[14:40] <jussi01> genii-around: kooka has been replaced...
[14:40] <Pici> s/downloads/downloads or builds/
[14:42] <genii-around> Thanks jussi01 :)
[14:42] <jussi01> :D
[15:10]  * genii-around blinks
[15:14] <jussi01> err... saywhat?
[15:15] <Pici> She banned herself earlier, just removing the ban for whenever she decides to return.
[15:15] <ikonia> she's a troll
[15:15] <ikonia> just like ljl
[15:24] <fryguy> why am I banned from #ubuntu
[15:26] <Pici> fryguy: one moment.
[15:30] <Pici> fryguy: The op that banned you isn't around currently, and I don't have enough information to look at the ban until he returns.
[15:31] <fryguy> i was told to wait 4 hours, approximately 4 days ago
[15:31] <Pici> fryguy: And who told you that?
[15:31] <fryguy> don't remember, it was quite a few days ago
[15:31] <fryguy> and i dont' keep logs of irc
[15:32] <jussi01> fryguy: I think that was me, did you come back in 4 hours?
[15:32] <fryguy> nalioth I think? i dunno
[15:32] <Pici> All I see is "let me be blunt.  Leave now and don't come back until flannel is active."
[15:32] <fryguy> jussi01: I did, and the op ignored me, so i waited a few more days
[15:32] <bazhang> it was flannel
[15:32] <Pici> I don't have that second request in my logs for whatever reason.
[15:32] <bazhang> fryguy, better talk with Flannel
[15:33] <fryguy> bazhang: i can't, he ignores me
[15:33] <Pici> fryguy: We'll ask Flannel to comment on your ban, until then, theres nothing we can do.
[15:33] <bazhang> fryguy, sure you can. it has been nearly a week now.
[15:34] <fryguy> bazhang: I messaged him, he never responded, this was a few days ago now.  I noticed I'm still banned, so i'm here inquiring about it
[15:34] <bazhang> fryguy, this is the place to ask. come back later today or tomorrow
[15:34] <bazhang> ie not via PM
[15:35] <Pici> fryguy: And we're responding.  I don't have a record of any comments on your ban from Flannel.  The next time he shows up we'll ask him so that we have something to say if you show up again and he isn't around.
[15:35] <fryguy> i'm at work now and can't get things done because an upgrade that i was trying to inquire about hosed my system pretty badly, so I'm in quite a situation right now, and would like a way to receive prompt support
[15:35] <Pici> Hows that?
[15:35] <fryguy> bazhang: exactly, this isn't the place to ask about it, which is why i asked him.  The only reason i'm in here now is because I kind of need some immediate results
[15:36] <bazhang> ask in #kubuntu if you have a support question imo
[15:36] <fryguy> the support question is directly related to gnome
[15:36] <bazhang> then you have to wait.
[15:36] <fryguy> and it only occurs in ubuntu installations of gnome
[15:36] <fryguy> bazhang: i have waited, 4 days
[15:37] <bazhang> 6 actually
[15:37] <fryguy> i was banned because of a personal interaction, nothing I did in the channel
[15:37] <Pici> fryguy: Like I said, the rest of us don't have enough information to make the call either way.
[15:37] <bazhang> fryguy, yes, I recall.
[15:37] <fryguy> indirectly your fault, if I'm not mistaken
[15:37] <bazhang> fryguy, that is why you must iron it out with him in here.
[15:38] <fryguy> bazhang: wait, a couple of minutes ago you told me it was inapproppriate to do in here, now you are saying do it in here?
[15:38] <fryguy> can you please be clear?
[15:38] <bazhang> fryguy, you must have misread
[15:38] <fryguy> i get conflicting messages from the occupants of this room all of the time, it would be helpful if we were consistent
 fryguy, this is the place to ask. come back later today or tomorrow
[15:38] <fryguy> 10:35:59 +  bazhang| fryguy, this is the place to ask.
[15:39] <jrib> about your ban, not support
[15:39] <bazhang> right
[15:39] <jrib> fryguy: Flannel will see this and leave a comment about your ban.  For now, try ##linux or #kubuntu
[15:41] <fryguy> it's an ubuntu specific problem
[15:41] <jrib> On a different matter, we should start a wiki with the names of ops who don't care if their bans are managed by others.  Personally, anyone can remove one of my bans.  If I feel differently, I'll leave a comment on the ban tracker.  I know others have said this as well
[15:41] <Pici> Then you're out of luck, sorry.
[15:41] <jrib> fryguy: I don't see what other information you expect here
[15:42] <fryguy> i was told 4 hours, it's been 6 days
[15:42] <jrib> fryguy: there are ubuntu channels on other networks as well you can try
[15:42] <fryguy> in those situations, I don't speak those languages, and my problem is specific to the version of gnome on ubuntu 8.10
[15:42] <fryguy> so kubuntu and xubuntu aren't appropriate
[15:43] <jrib> fryguy: you don't speak english?
[15:43] <fryguy> i do, i am banned from the english speaking ubuntu channel, which is why i am in here
[15:43] <jrib> fryguy: there are networks other than freenode with ubuntu channels on them
[15:43] <fryguy> and i am banned from that one channel because of a personal interaction with an op of all of the channels, seems strange
[15:44] <fryguy> jrib: is there a list of other official ubuntu support channels on the ubuntu site somewhere? I don't remember seeing any listed other than freenodes
[15:44] <jrib> fryguy: they're not official, n
[15:44] <jrib> o
[15:44] <fryguy> I kind of need an official channel, the machine I'm working with right now isn't mine.  And I would like a source of reliable answers, not random people who don't have a clue
[15:45] <bazhang> fryguy, you wont be unbanned until Flannel has weighed in.
[15:45] <fryguy> so, what am I supposed to do? message in here when flannel is around?
[15:45] <jrib> fryguy: come back later about your ban, there's nothing else to be done now
[15:45] <fryguy> since he ignores me?
[15:45] <jrib> fryguy: as we said: we will ask Flannel to comment when he is around
[15:45] <fryguy> this is my second attempt at getting rid of this, how many am I going to need to do?
[15:47] <ikonia> fryguy: you may try listening - then you'll get unbanned a lot easier
[15:47] <Pici> fryguy: It depends on how soon you return and how soon Flannel comments on his ban.
[15:47] <fryguy> ikonia: can you clarify that? i was told to contact flannel 4 hours later, which i did, and was ignored.  I try again 6 days later and am still unsuccessful
[15:48] <fryguy> ikonia: what part of this am I not listening?
[15:48] <ikonia> fryguy 3 people in here have said "they" will speak to flannel, come back later and check with them
[15:48] <ikonia> fryguy: 3 people have offered other linux channel solutions to get you by in the mean time
[15:48] <ikonia> fryguy: so sitting in hear constantly saying "why why why" won't do anything, listening to the 3 people who've have helped, said they will help and advised what to do will
[15:48] <fryguy> ikonia: which would imply that I'm going to need to come back at least once more, which is why i asked how many times i WOULD need to come back, since you will no doubt not contact me about the matter and I will have to come back and ask myself at another future time
[15:49] <jrib> fryguy: you will need to come back at least one more time
[15:49] <fryguy> ikonia: and I've explained why those channels aren't suitable for my needs and won't have the information I need
[15:49] <ikonia> fryguy what information don't they have
[15:49] <Pici> fryguy: And we've explained that we cannot help you then. End of discussion.
[15:49] <ikonia> fryguy: they are english speaking linux and ubuntu based support channels
[15:49] <fryguy> ikonia: what ubuntu did to a stock gnome installation, what patches were applied etc to change keygrabbing behavior of some keybindings
[15:49] <fryguy> because it changes between 8.04 and 8.10, at least as far as I can tell
[15:50] <nalioth> fryguy: shall i be blunt again?
[15:50] <ikonia> fryguy thats beyond the scope of support anyway - so #ubuntu wouldn not be the best place
[15:50] <Pici> This is not a support channel.  Please see our suggestions above.
[15:50] <fryguy> ikonia: how to manage default keybindings in ubuntu is outside of the scope of #ubuntu? hrmm
[15:50] <ikonia> fryguy thats not what you asked, you asked about patches
[15:50]  * ikonia backs away
[15:51] <fryguy> ikonia: right, but that is a cause/effect type thing.  I'm sure people have run into what i'm running into right now, so I would like to ask people about it
[15:51] <Pici> There are no more discussions that can be had at this point that are either a) redundant or b) offtopic
[15:51] <nalioth> fryguy: you've been informed of what you need to do
[15:51] <fryguy> nalioth: again? this is the first time you've said anything in the past 20 minutes or so.  I would have just left a while ago, but ikonia was asking for some specifics so i'm providing them
[15:52] <fryguy> Pici: i'm aware of that, i was simply answering ikonia
[15:52] <fryguy> see my previous statement
[15:52] <Pici> fryguy: and now you have.
[15:52] <Pici> See you later.
[15:52] <fryguy> when can i expect flannel back?
[15:52] <fryguy> last time i was told 4 hours, is a second estimate too much to ask?
[15:52] <ikonia> asked an answered
[15:53] <ikonia> and
[15:53] <fryguy> can you repeat? i missed it
[15:53] <ikonia> no
[15:53] <fryguy> well can you not kick me for a moment so i can scroll back and read the answer then?
[15:53] <ikonia> fryguy: the answer is unknown
[15:54] <Pici> fryguy: I'd say 4 to 6 hours, but thats a guess based on his idle time.
[15:54] <fryguy> this is great. I get banned from a channel for an unknown time because of a personal issue with one person, and there's nothing I can do about it
[15:54] <fryguy> all well
[15:55]  * genii-around hands out the Advils and coffee
[15:55] <ikonia> I didn't realise he was baiting/trolling at first
[15:55] <jussi01> bleh
[15:55] <ikonia> thought it was genuine
[15:55] <ikonia> jussi01: on train
[15:55] <jussi01> ikonia: :D
[15:56] <jussi01> ikonia: eta?
[15:56] <jrib> Anyway, can anyone think of a way to maintain a list of ops who don't care that their bans are managed by others when they are away as long as a comment is not on the bantracker to the contrary, that is only editable by ops?
[15:56] <ikonia> errr a guess 1 hour
[15:56] <jussi01> ok, when does laura get off?
[15:56] <ikonia> jussi01: she should be home in about 50 minutes
[15:57] <ikonia> jrib: I have no problem with others dealing with my bans I normally try to comment in BT so unless something says "don't touch" or an obvious "issue" rather than a quick ban I have no problems
[15:57] <Pici> jrib: Good idea, but I'm not sure where we'd put it.
[15:58] <jussi01> ikonia: excellent :)
[15:58] <bazhang> the one ban I have can be removed at any time :)
[15:59] <ikonia> jrib: maybe a little push on use on the comments in BT would help
[15:59] <Pici> Indeed.
[15:59] <bazhang> good point
[15:59]  * jussi01 doesnt mind anyone touching his bans - if they comeback and misbehave Ill just ban them a gain....
[16:00] <jdong> touching his... oh.
[16:00] <jussi01> jdong: I knew that was coming if ypou were around!
[16:00] <jrib> ikonia: maybe bantracker could be made to grab the message from the kick or remove when a ban happens so that comments wouldn't require extra action
[16:00]  * jussi01 slaps jdong
[16:02] <ikonia> jrib I thought it did that ?
[16:02] <jussi01> jrib: it has logs even...
[16:02] <ikonia> jrib: I see things like the "you should know better" message
[16:02] <jrib> it doesn't grab my remove messages
[16:02] <ikonia> for example I'm looking at the fryguy log now and can now see why he was banned
[16:02] <jrib> jussi01: the logs when viewing a ban miss my removing
[16:02] <jrib> ikonia: why?
[16:03] <ikonia> jrib he was atad rude in #ubuntu, then acted like a total jerk for a good period of time when he was told off
[16:03] <ikonia> " a tad "
[16:04] <jussi01> define "a tad" ?
[16:04] <ikonia> jussi01 he made a few bad language moments
[16:04] <ikonia> then instead of falling into line tried to mytre him self and make an episode out of it for an age
[16:04] <jussi01> oh bleh... I feel bad cause Ive only eaten candy all day...
[16:04] <ikonia> martry
[16:05] <ikonia> jussi01: there is food in the house !"
[16:05] <genii-around> jussi01: Not expired Halloween candy I hope
[16:05] <ikonia> genii-around: funny enough - yes
[16:05] <ikonia> thats the only candy I am aware of
[16:05] <genii-around> Bleh
[16:05] <jussi01> no, I went to the humbug shop remember...
[16:06] <jussi01> ikonia: yeah, but Id rather wait till yu guys get here :D
[16:06] <ikonia> fair enough
[16:06] <ikonia> you'll get well fed
[16:06] <ikonia> I hope
[16:07] <jussi01> :D well I was _really_ well fed last night! (thanks again!)
[16:07] <ikonia> ha, no problem
[16:07] <genii-around> jussi01: Do you remember the link for running 3.5 on 8.10? It was given previously but did not bookmark it
[16:07] <jussi01> nope
[16:08] <jussi01> never seen it
[16:08] <ikonia> genii-around: are the 3.5 packages offical or 3rd party ?
[16:08] <jussi01> genii-around: lookin your browser history
[16:08] <genii-around> jussi01: My browser clears out every time it closes
[16:08] <jussi01> ahhh
[16:09] <genii-around> ikonia: Not sure. I forget who gave the link originally even. Maybe Pricechild or so
[16:09] <PriceChild> Wasn't me.
[16:10] <PriceChild> I guess you don't think much of me.
[16:10] <Pici> Did anyone just hear something?
[16:10] <jussi01> heya PriceChild!!
[16:10] <PriceChild> allo
[16:10] <Pici> OH its PriceChild. Hi! :)
[16:12] <genii-around> Hm
[16:13] <jussi01> hrm, does anyone take issue with this quit msg?
[16:13] <jussi01> [18:12:18] <-- Bsims<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has quit (""It's time to light the candles... Its time to chant the rites... It's time to summon Satan on the Muppet Show tonight. "")
[16:14] <Pici> hehe
[16:14] <Pici> I don't see an issue.
[16:16] <jussi01> :D I thought it was funny too, but understand it could cause offense in some quarters
[16:23] <genii-around> It's no more offensive than !prayer
[16:24] <nalioth> jussi01: was bsims a disruptive user?
[16:24] <jussi01> nalioth: no
[16:31] <jussi01> genii-around: shush! :D
[16:32]  * genii-around shushes
[16:32]  * jussi01 huggles genii-around.
[16:32] <jussi01> I want to take him properly through the official ways first
[16:36] <nalioth> actions speak louder than words
[16:38] <Pici> TheK: How can we help you today?
[16:39] <TheK> a problem with chatops, who think, they are legislative and executive....
[16:40] <PriceChild> TheK: which channel?
[16:40] <TheK> #ubuntu-de
[16:40] <TheK> you get kicked for using away-nicks..
[16:41] <Pici> TheK: #ubuntu-irc is the proper place to discuss loco channel operations.  We only deal with the main #ubuntu channels here.
[16:41] <TheK> ah, ok
[16:41] <Pici> Aditionally, /msg ubottu away   we have the same policy here.
[17:01] <jussi01> ikonia: sitrep!!! :D :P ?
[17:02] <PriceChild> odd, canonical person applied to ubuntu-irc
[17:03] <jussi01> who?
[17:03] <jussi01> slap them :P
[17:03] <jussi01> hrm, that was weird...
[17:08] <jpds> PriceChild: Appears to be in... several other teams.
[17:08] <PriceChild> jpds: hmm?
[17:08] <PriceChild> what've i gone and done now?
[17:09] <genii-around> jussi01: Hehe he must think we are ganingin up on him in #kubuntu
[17:09] <genii-around> *ganging
[17:09] <jpds> PriceChild: Nevermind.
[17:09] <jussi01> we are :D
[17:42]  * genii-around ponders "plop all"
[17:42] <Pici> I don't know either.
[17:48] <Flannel> fryguy wasn't told to "come back in 4 hours" merely to wait until I came back that night (which was in 4 hours), and then he didn't come back.
[17:51] <Flannel> but, he was banned for the same reasons you saw today.  He was being anti-helpful in #ubuntu, and then got smart when talked to about it.  (And actually, this isn't the first time, I had a run in with him like a year ago that went down more or less the same way)
[17:52] <Flannel> You say "Don't give bad information" (or whatever the issue of the day is), and then he basically says "alright, so what information can I give?" and then basically expects a line-for-line approval/veto
[17:53] <Flannel> Which, is not because he's incapable, only because he's trying to be difficult
[17:56] <Flannel> He was banned (should've been a banforward, looking back) so we could discuss his attitude on the record, instead of in a query, and didn't come back that night, and has waited until this morning to try again.  I'd be fine unbanning him, and sticking him on my notify list to invite him here next time he's around.  Any thoughts?
[17:58] <ikonia> I don't see a reason to let that sot of attitude back into a busy channel
[17:58] <Flannel> Its only attitude in a query, luckily enough, so its not disruptive in the channel.
[17:58] <ikonia> I read the log of the conversation with nalioth and saw his attitude in here
[17:59] <ikonia> Flannel: it was attitude for nalioth read the logs in bt
[17:59] <Flannel> Although, I suppose that means he knows its a problem
[17:59] <Flannel> I'll take a look
[18:00] <ikonia> his question  that he was trying to ask in here was nonsense
[18:00] <ikonia> started off as  wanted help with ubutu, then became gnome specific when offered #kubuntu, then become gnome/ubuntu specific when offered ##linux then became a none serious patching issues when he was offered a development channel
[18:01] <ikonia> he was just making up q situation to /need/ #ubuntu so he could be a hero again and woe is him, he helps you know....etc
[18:01] <Flannel> yeah, he's a "I help so the rules don't apply" sort of guy
[18:04] <ikonia> as a public FYI: the user qstnn who was in #ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic ranting about how open source software is rubbish because of the developers not being paid (trolling) and then in vbox is actually the user brutefoce or brutefrce who was also a problem, so he can be added to the alias nick
[18:04] <jussi01> ikonia: where are you?
[18:05] <ikonia> stuck on a train
[18:05] <jussi01> :/
[18:05] <ikonia> by swindon
[18:05] <ikonia> same place I got stuck last night
[19:08] <fryguy> has anyone talked to flannel yet?
[19:21] <Flannel> fryguy: they have, although its obviously moot.
[19:22] <fryguy> oh nice, you are acknowledging me
[19:23] <fryguy> can you elaborate please
[19:24] <Flannel> Its moot because I'm here.  And I've never not acknowledged you.  You were told to come back when I got back that evening (which was approx 4 hours) and you never did.
[19:24] <Flannel> but, that's not really that important.  You aren't being ignored, you just showed no additional interest in handling your ban until this morning.
[19:25] <fryguy> it was 4 hours and 21 minutes, and I did message you
[19:25] <fryguy> what you chose to do with that message, I have no idea
[19:25] <PriceChild> Flannel: I don't think it is fair to tell someone to come back several hours later. "any time after 4 hours from now" would be ok i think
[19:26] <Flannel> PriceChild: No, it was just "When I get back" which was approx 4 hours.  So, any time after that would've been fine.
[19:26] <Flannel> PriceChild: He asked when I was away, and I had mentioned I'd be back after a few hours, which is exactly what they told him.
[19:26] <Flannel> "You'll have to talk to Flannel, he'll be back in 4 hours"
[19:26] <fryguy> and is exactly the course of action i took
[19:26] <fryguy> what you chose to do with that message, I have no idea
[19:27] <fryguy> i would like to reiterate that I dont' appreciate being banned from an official support channel for actions that occured in a private message, outside all scope of ubuntu as an official entity
[19:28] <Flannel> fryguy: Your conduct in a query in regards to behavior in an ubuntu channel is relevant, I fail to see how it shouldn't be.
[19:30] <fryguy> actions taken in regards to a channel should be in respect to actions taken IN the channel, not because you disagreed with an argument I presented to you in a personal message
[19:31] <fryguy> nevertheless, I have several issues that I need to get resolved due to an upgrade so I can get back to work
[19:31] <fryguy> is that going to be made possible?
[19:31] <Flannel> fryguy: this has nothing to do with a personal disagreement.  Everything to do with you following the channel guidelines.
[19:31] <Flannel> fryguy: And if you'll agree to follow them (which includes not giving out bad information), I'd be willing to lift your ban, yes.
[19:34] <fryguy> so, you ban everyone from the channel who provides a google link for between 4 hours and 6 days? Interesting...
[19:34] <Flannel> If you're having trouble finding them: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines and http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
[19:35] <fryguy> well aware of the guidelines and conduct.  I would gladly question some of the points with regards to your behavior as well if you want.  Outside of the scope of this channel though, PM me if you want to discuss how I feel you failed at 2-3 of those.
[19:36] <Flannel> I initially banned you because at the time I felt you could not be trusted to behave in #ubuntu, and would like to have a chat with you before you were let back in.  I fully admit it should have been a foward to this channel.  And the timing was poor in that I did have to leave for a few hours.
[19:36] <fryguy> and then you ignored my query when you did return
[19:37] <Flannel> But you were told that, and you showed no interest in removing the ban until earlier today, but again, this is ancillary to the ban itself.
[19:37] <fryguy> how is querying you about the ban equalivalent to "showed no interest?"  What else would you have liked me to do
[19:37] <fryguy> nevertheless, I have several issues that I need to get resolved due to an upgrade so I can get back to work
[19:37] <fryguy> is that going to be made possible?
[19:38] <Flannel> fryguy: You should have come back here, this is the channel for operator related issues.  You queried me two minutes after I left (and then came here and were told to wait until I got back)
[19:38] <Flannel> fryguy: Do you understand and agree to follow the channel guidelines?
[19:40] <fryguy> i've always understood them, and gotten clarification on how to use them, which I've already explained to you, why must we have this same conversation again?  I don't feel like rehashing this again, especially in a "more public than PM" atmosphere
[19:41] <jrib> it's a yes or no question
[19:41] <fryguy> and i gave a yes or no error with qualifications
[19:42] <jrib> fryguy: so you agree to follow the channel guidelines?
[19:42] <Flannel> fryguy: Just an FYI, this channel has no one but ops (and you) in it, and is the place to go for operator questions/issues/complaints/etc.
[19:42] <fryguy> I agree to do my best to, they seem to be a bit of a moving target at times
[19:45] <Flannel> fryguy: You're welcome in #ubuntu again
[19:47] <fryguy> can i request a clarification of the ircguidelines.  More specifically an amendment: Do not post help-related links in the channel that aren't urls within the Ubuntu domain, or links that are directly linked to from the ubuntu domain
[19:47] <fryguy> should help clarify completely what help-related sources are allowed and what aren't
[19:47] <fryguy> thanks
[19:48] <Flannel> sigh.
[19:48] <jrib> heh.  I guess his plan was to annoy until he was unbanned?
[19:48] <Flannel> jrib: I'm unbanning him and assuming he'll troll again soon enough.
[19:49]  * Flannel notes he's still not in #ubuntu
[19:49] <Pici> Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
[19:49] <Flannel> The original problem (this time around) was posting google links which basically were straight googles of the question the people asked.
[19:49]  * Myrtti has done penance today
[19:50] <Myrtti> I posted a sync request
[19:50] <Myrtti> I needs a hug
[19:50] <Flannel> Which, besides being annoying, unhelpful, and offputting, is also dangerous.  Since some of those googles have bad information on front page links.
[19:50]  * Pici hugs Myrtti
[19:51] <Pici> Flannel: I don't think we should have a rule against posting offsite links, but rather asking people to not post them when it seems to be obvious that all they are doing is googling for the answers.
[19:51] <Flannel> Pici: No, it had nothing to do with them being offsite,
[19:52] <Flannel> It had everything to do with "How do I install LAMP?" having a third hit of installing xamp from a tarball
[19:52] <Pici> Flannel: eww
[19:52] <Flannel> Pici: Yeah, which, *I* know not to do, but him posting a straight google is stupid, when we have plenty of on-site links to solve it
[19:53] <Flannel> Pici: and then while I was talking about it, I first told him "don't post unsafe links", which he replied "my links were all safe!" so then I asked if he verified every single google result on (even just) the first page, and he said he did, which is false.
[19:54] <Flannel> And then I told him that if can't make a decision on his own about safe vs non-safe (which I know he can, he just chooses not to) then he should only post links from help.ubuntu.com and the factoids
[19:54] <Flannel> And then he responds with more "what ifs" and I'm done playing his game, since I did already back in July with a similar matter.
[19:55] <nalioth> 'time sink trolling' - gotta love it
[19:59] <Flannel> Pici: so, no, I *never* suggested we change the policy to only allow our own web pages, and I'd never be that naive.  He's just being melodramatic.
[19:59] <Pici> Flannel: I guess I misread then.
[20:00] <Flannel> Pici: Nah, He suggested it because thats what I told him he should restrict himself to if he's "incapable" of determining validity of links.
[20:04] <Myrtti> has anyone looked at the /whois of the visitor in -women?
[20:04] <Myrtti> I just did
[20:04] <Myrtti> I wish I hadn't
[20:29] <mneptok> Myrtti: i don't want to /join just to get the nick.
[20:29]  * mneptok is not -women, and has no business there other than snooping
[20:32] <fryguy> 15:33:03     Hikefu| fryguy, I don't know how to do that, but you can google it.
[20:32] <fryguy> please take care of this, thank you
[20:33] <nalioth> pot calling kettle black?
[20:35] <ikonia> this is going to go on and on with him
[20:35] <ikonia> I disagree he should have been let back on, mostly based on the episode with nalioth
[20:55] <jussi01> does anyone know what the gnome network manager package is called?
[20:56] <LjL> jussi01: network-manager-gnome i would suspect
[20:57] <jussi01> !info network-manager-gnome
[20:58] <jussi01> thanks LjL!
[21:21]  * genii-around sips
[21:30]  * mneptok pools in a corner
[21:56]  * genii-around sinks the 8-ball in the corner
[22:01] <Flannel> ikonia: I'd be fine re-banning him
[22:01] <nalioth> not until he does something that warrants it
[22:02] <Flannel> I assume there'll be something, and more or less soon too. Which is why I didn't press him harder re: unbanning.
[23:16] <genii-around> Bah. Latched onto wrong wap
[23:54] <mneptok> genii-around: that can get you arrested in some socially conservative circle.
[23:55] <mneptok> *circles.
[23:55] <genii-around> ?
[23:55] <mneptok> latching onto the wrong WAP.
[23:55] <genii-around> mneptok: Ah, yes
[23:56] <genii-around> mneptok: It's my neighbour. We share back and forth so no big deal
[23:56] <Pici> Kinky
[23:57] <genii-around> Pici: We each have file servers and drop stuff off to each other that way
[23:58] <mneptok> "swinging couples," 21st century style
[23:58] <Pici> Sounds like it..
[23:59] <genii-around> I think you guys need to get out more ;)
[23:59] <Pici> probably... :(


[10:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4423 Pending binary packages
[10:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- LocutusOfBorg, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4379 Diff missing (hirsute/mysql-8.0, hirsute/node-css-what). Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (hirsute/node-babel7, hirsute/node-eslint-plugin-es, hirsute/node-eslint-plugin-node, hirsute/node-eslint-utils, hirsute/node-mysticatea-eslint-plugin). Ready to build (hirsute/pkg-js-tools). Successfully built (hirsute/node-regenerator-transform)
[10:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4423 Successfully built
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[11:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4431 Generating diffs
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[12:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4431 Successfully built
[12:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4432 Successfully built
[12:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4435 Pending binary packages
[12:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4435 Diff missing
[13:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4435 Generating diffs
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[15:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- LocutusOfBorg, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4379 Diff missing (hirsute/mysql-8.0, hirsute/node-css-what). Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (hirsute/node-babel7, hirsute/node-eslint-plugin-es, hirsute/node-eslint-plugin-node, hirsute/node-eslint-utils, hirsute/node-mysticatea-eslint-plugin). Ready to build (hirsute/pkg-js-tools). Successfully built (hirsute/node-regenerator-transform)
[16:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- LocutusOfBorg, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4379 Diff missing (hirsute/node-css-what). Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (hirsute/node-babel7, hirsute/node-eslint-plugin-es, hirsute/node-eslint-plugin-node, hirsute/node-eslint-utils, hirsute/node-mysticatea-eslint-plugin). Proposed pocket (hirsute/mysql-8.0). Ready to build (hirsute/pkg-js-tools). Successfully built (hirsute/node-regenerator-transform)
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[18:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4302 Failed to build
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[21:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- rbalint, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3840 Generating diffs
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[00:30] <Nyad> Hi. Some friends and I are looking at creating an opensource project, but we need a version control system which is easy to use and will work on either Sourceforge or the google code hosting thingy. We have narrowed our choices down to bazaar and SVK, is there any advice or extra info you can give that will help us come to a decision?
[00:36] <lamalex> SF and google code both use subversion
[00:36] <lamalex> you could use bzr-svn to interface if you want
[00:36] <lamalex> or launchpad.net offers project hosting
[00:39] <Nyad> but launchpad.net isn't under GPL
[00:40] <Nyad> which would be easier to use? bzr-svn or SVK(which I think has a svn interface)
[00:42] <Pieter> is google code GPL'd?
[00:42] <Pilky> Nyad: why does launchpad need to be under GPL?
[00:42] <Nyad> is it still free?
[00:42] <Pilky> it's always been free afaik
[00:43] <Nyad> tnx
[00:44] <lamalex> Nyad: launchpad's license doesn't affect your code's license
[00:44] <lamalex> you can license your code however you want
[00:44] <lamalex> I think it does require and open license though
[00:45] <Nyad> well we are opting for GPL or LGPL so that should be fine
[00:45] <Pilky> lamalex: I don't think it requires it, but the fact that your code will be online implies it
[00:45] <lamalex> Pilky: not necessarily, it could restrict modification/redistribution
[00:46] <Pilky> true
[00:48] <Nyad> so it's actually possible to put your source up but say nobody is allowed to modify it or spread it? but then can't people just port it and make their own version from the source?
[00:48] <Pieter> no, that'd be modification
[00:48] <Pieter> which you disallowed
[00:49] <Pieter> so they'd be violating your licence :)
[00:49] <Pilky> yeah, but in all fairness, how well do licences stand up in court
[00:49] <Pieter> closed licences better than open :)
[00:50] <Pilky> best way to prevent modification is to keep your source closed
[00:53] <Nyad> thanks
[02:00]  * dennda just created a bug report for that sftp issue
[02:01] <dennda> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/234682 <-- Do you feel like there's anything missing?
[02:03] <fullermd> Your upgrade to 1.4, which includes a fix for that?   O:-}
[02:04] <dennda> fullermd: Oh, it is fixed in 1.4?
[02:04] <fullermd> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/213425
[02:04] <Peng> Does using curl provide any benefit over urllib?
[02:04] <fullermd> Yah.  Paramiko 1.7.2 and later changed somethingorother; 1.4 and later have the update.
[02:05] <Peng> bzrtools 0.91.0?!
[02:05] <dennda> fullermd: When will 1.4 be released?
[02:05] <fullermd> dennda: A month ago   :)
[02:05] <dennda> I don't want to use the old paramiko version through the cheeseshop
[02:05] <dennda> Oh
[02:05] <dennda> why isn't it in the repo yet :/
[02:05] <Peng> Apparently the Arch maintainers aren't big bzr users?
[02:06] <fullermd> 1.5 was actually released a week ago...
[02:14] <orphe> hi, i've got some questions about developping with bzr
[02:17] <orphe> what would be the easiest way to work with bzr in ruby ...  i have seen some python wrapper for ruby so I would be able to import bzrlibs or to call system commands and parse the output from stdout .. or making a python application that makes xml or some others things that are easy to parse with bazaar as a backend
[02:30] <beuno> orphe, you do have an xml plugin for bzr
[02:40] <orphe> benuo : no but it would not be a problem to install... (such plugin exists) ?
[02:41] <orphe> beuno: no but it would not be a problem to install... (such plugin exists) ?
[02:43] <beuno> orphe, bzr-xmloutput
[02:43] <beuno> I use it for PHP, Verterok uses it for Java  :)
[02:45] <orphe> ow man , that will be alot easier than I tought. Thank you! this is really something interesting.
[02:47] <orphe> with this i would still have to call bzr process but if I cache things until the repository is modified i would accelerate the process
[02:50] <orphe> beuno, thanks that's a really good thing.
[02:53] <beuno> orphe, no problem. Let me know if you need any more help on that, or if we can make your life easier with any feature
[02:53] <beuno> the project's on Launchpad, so feel free to open bugs
[02:57] <orphe> beuno, yes thank you again.
[10:46]  * _moshez waves
[10:46] <_moshez> a friend of mine sent a q to the ml (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/bazaar/2008q2/042391.html ) but got no answer :(
[10:46] <_moshez> can anyone take a look and see if there's help?
[10:47] <lifeless> hi _moshez
[10:47] <lifeless> I'm travelling atm
[10:49] <_moshez> lifeless: hello I squish your tummy
[10:49] <liw> lifeless, 0 hours!
[10:49] <lifeless> liw: excellent
[10:49] <lifeless> _moshez: hello, I am squished!
[10:49] <_moshez> lifeless: also, if you could take a look at the question, I would be happy
[10:49] <_moshez> lifeless: though it would not stop the squishing :)
[10:49] <lifeless> _moshez: short answer: you can register a dynamic hook which is a closure rather than a global
[10:49] <lifeless> _moshez: closures are love
[10:50] <lifeless> _moshez: or, you can refactor cmd_pull to better separation of UI and code, so that you can decorate the deeper guts rather than having to deal with the return value which is (deliberately) appropraite for shell evaluation
[10:50] <_moshez> also dynamic hooks are strange
[10:51] <_moshez> lifeless: yeah, we were kind of scared of actually touching bzr code
[10:51] <lifeless> I think some refactoring and a patch to mainline would be best
[10:51] <_moshez> lifeless: awesome I'll see what I can do about it :)
[10:51] <lifeless> its pretty nice python I think, few people seem to have trouble doing cosmetic changes
[10:51] <_moshez> lifeless: I think I'll get him to go on irc...
[10:52] <_moshez> lifeless: not scared of the source, scared of the process :)
[10:52] <lifeless> I will be flapping shortly
[10:52] <lifeless> meh, its much lower entry cost than twists penultimate perfect quality thingy
[10:53] <lifeless> a) write code. b) send patch via 'bzr send --mail-to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:53] <lifeless> c) profit!
[10:54] <_moshez> lifeless: *hugs*
[10:54] <_moshez> lifeless: so far, as a company, we have not written twisted patches either
[10:54] <_moshez> lifeless: we don't have corporate experience contributing to free software :(
[10:54] <lifeless> _moshez: ah!
[10:55] <lifeless> Ve have vayz of making you kode!
[10:55] <_moshez> lifeless: the problem is more between sending the patch and having it in a bzr version, we'd be afraid to use our own bzr
[10:55] <lifeless> do you mean your own build?
[10:56] <_moshez> lifeless: yeah
[10:56] <_moshez> lifeless: we should probably wait for, ironically enough, moving to ubuntu from fc6 for that
[10:56] <lifeless> so if you have a plugin, you'r running your own build :P
[10:56] <lifeless> if you see what I mean
[10:56] <_moshez> lifeless: distribution of plugins is easier
[10:57] <lifeless> anyhow, fortunately bzr runs from a working tree trivially
[10:57] <_moshez> lifeless: when we use ubuntu on developer desktops, it'll be easy to distribute custom builds
[10:57] <lifeless> you only need one custom instance tho - the integration manager right ?
[10:57] <_moshez> lifeless: probably
[10:57] <lifeless> :P
[10:57] <_moshez> lifeless: also the integration mgr actually already uses ubuntu
[10:57] <lifeless> excellent
[10:58] <_moshez> lifeless: so far, it looks like we'll be going for the dynamic hooks solution
[10:58] <lifeless> patching pull would likely be better long term
[10:58] <_moshez> lifeless: we intend to improve the integration mgr anyway, I'll possibly refactor pull then
[10:58] <_moshez> lifeless: if we do it now, it would delay the move-to-bzr project
[10:59] <_moshez> which I really really want to do ASAP
[10:59]  * _moshez does the "yay bzr" dance
[10:59] <lifeless> also,i fyou are doing non trivial business logic, consider working with the bzr domain objects directly
[10:59] <lifeless> much richer scripting interface
[10:59]  * lifeless does the yay adopters dance
[10:59] <_moshez> lifeless: url for documentation of that?
[10:59] <lifeless> pydoc bzrlib.branch.Branch etc
[10:59] <lifeless> oror pydoctor
[11:00] <lifeless> also doc/developers
[11:00] <_moshez> lifeless: ah. we do that a little too in "surrounding bazaar" scripts
[11:00] <_moshez> like our build downloader, which generates a mail after reading the bzr ci log :)
[11:00] <lifeless> are you liking bzr?
[11:01] <lifeless> liw: 0 hours -> done, or 'nearly'?
[11:01] <lifeless> _moshez: did you see my 'scaling test' blog post?
[11:01] <_moshez> lifeless: no :(
[11:01] <_moshez> url me
[11:01] <lifeless> http://planet.bazaar-vcs.org/
[11:02] <liw> lifeless, when you check your e-mail, you'll find the location from which to copy :)
[11:02] <liw> lifeless, (iow, done)
[11:06] <lifeless> liw: most excellent
[11:06] <lifeless> tell me now, I will start it coping in DC
[11:07] <lifeless> is it the for-lifeless dir?
[11:09] <lifeless> damn, tungestem only has 1.3G free!
[11:09] <liw> lifeless, that's the dir, yes
[11:10] <lifeless> cool
[11:10] <lifeless> copying to manganese
[11:11] <lifeless> _moshez: pretty cool if I do say so myself huh?
[11:13] <Peng> I just ran bzr check for fun, and it says KnitCorrupt! :(
[11:14] <Peng> An SHA-1 doesn't match.
[11:14] <Peng> Some revision from bzr.dev from 2005, so it's not like I've lost data.
[11:14] <lifeless> interesteing
[11:14] <lifeless> what format repo?
[11:15] <Peng> Packs.
[11:15] <Peng> ...And wow, it sure floods .bzr.log.
[11:15] <lifeless> plain, not rich root?
[11:16] <Peng> Plain, AFAIK.
[11:16] <lifeless> bzr info -v :)
[11:16] <Peng> Yeah, plain.
[11:17] <lifeless> ok, thats .. interesting
[11:17] <lifeless> is it a mismatc on the inventory, or a file text?
[11:18] <Peng> Inventory.
[11:19] <lifeless> mumbe
[11:19] <lifeless> mumble
[11:20] <lifeless> we should track this down, but not from an airport lounge.
[11:20] <lifeless> perhaps you could file a bug / ask a question in lp ?
[11:21] <Peng> But tracking down version control consistency errors is what airports are for!
[11:21] <Peng> Mailing list?
[11:21] <lifeless> or that
[11:22] <Peng> How active is the LP questions thingy vs. the list?
[11:23] <lifeless> should be similar in terms of folkl witht he knolwdge needed to drill into this
[11:25] <sabdfl> Peng: I see the same thing here, on bzr.dev
[11:25] <sabdfl> KnitCorrupt: Knit inventory corrupt:
[11:25] <sabdfl>   sha-1 a7b104d9ee824caed0e59a2989446419e230c4c2
[11:25] <sabdfl>   of reconstructed text does not match
[11:25] <sabdfl>   expected 873bfb499cc42b19241ac60c9736568abe2e4518
[11:25] <sabdfl>   for version<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:26] <sabdfl> Peng: you see the same one?
[11:26] <Peng> sabdfl: Different revision for me<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:26] <sabdfl> iiiinteresting
[11:26] <lifeless> ok, definitely file a bug on this
[11:27] <lifeless> we have to identify whats going on here as a priority
[11:27] <Peng> sabdfl: Wait a minute. How did your check not take half an hour to run?
[11:27] <lifeless> if its statically bad, then there is already a bug open about why this is not detected outside of check; if its creeping bad find-and-fix
[11:28] <Peng> lifeless: What do you mean? If it's not consistent which revision it claims is bad?
[11:28] <sabdfl> Peng: as it happened, i started the same check an hour ago, on a whim :-)
[11:28] <sabdfl> i was interested to see how long it would take
[11:28] <Peng> sabdfl: Um, wow. That's a heck of a coincidence.
[11:28] <lifeless> Peng: actually, he rooted your box and watched you doing check
[11:28] <lifeless> Peng: but he'll never admit to it
[11:28] <Peng> :)
[11:29] <sabdfl> :-p
[11:29] <lifeless> so I had a scare when I got to singapore
[11:29] <liw> sabdfl = super-user accounts breaking daemon for lifeless?
[11:29] <lifeless> at the transfer desk, when the agent mutters and mumbles
[11:29] <lifeless> and you ask 'is there a problem', you don't want them to say 'you are not booked on that flight'
[11:30] <Peng> ( https://answers.launchpad.net/bzr/+question/33093 is similar.)
[11:33] <sabdfl> lifeless: and he said?
[11:33] <lifeless> 'you are not booked on that flight'
[11:34] <lifeless> I have a seat, and apparently luggage etc should be ok, and they haven't asked for a credit card, but something *whacky* is going on
[11:36] <Peng> OK, it should die soon.
[11:36] <Peng> (I'm running check again.)
[11:37] <Peng> BTW, it was about the first versionedfile it was checking, according to the progress bar.
[11:43] <fog> Hi, I have a serious problem with bzr 1.5 (and tool 1.5.0 as packaged in Debian): some commands, like commit, just hang indefinitely.
[11:44] <fog> and if I break them with C-C then the tree is broken. even status reports an internal error.
[11:44] <lifeless> fog: if you hit ctrl-\ it will drop you into pdb
[11:44] <lifeless> there is obviously something wrong but I cna't help you right now - sorry.
[11:45] <fog> lifeless: thanks, I'll try to debug it myself.
[11:45] <Peng> Ok, "bzr checked" died again. Same revision.
[11:45] <lifeless> if noone else can please gather what info you can and file a bug/post a message to the list
[11:45] <lifeless> -> QF6 to sydney :)
[11:45] <Peng> lifeless: Still want me to file a bug?
[11:45] <lifeless> Peng: yes
[11:46] <Peng> lifeless: Will do.
[11:46] <Peng> lifeless: Have a good flight. :)
[11:47] <_moshez> lifeless: so I was going to mention that it would be nice if people would get responses to mail
[11:47] <_moshez> lifeless: it used to be the problem with twisted, btw, that you could only get the information if you were on irc :(
[11:48] <lifeless> _moshez: most mails get answers; you can tell from the archives
[11:48] <lifeless> _moshez: but most of the core devs are not volunteers, and tend to do other things in weekends
[11:49] <lifeless> really gone
[12:16] <Peng> Y'know, the spinner in the progress bar is kind of bad over ssh.
[12:19] <Pilky> is anybody using a checkout for putting changes onto launchpad, but using a branch to do most of their dev work?
[12:19] <Pilky> because I'm just thinking about how to do the merging and such... am I right in thinking that you can't push to a checkout
[12:20] <Peng> Try it.
[12:20] <Peng> If you push to a checkout, I think bzr will push to its parent.
[12:20] <Pilky> hmm
[12:20] <Peng> I don't use checkouts at all, except for the occasional lightweight checkout, but even then only rarely.
[12:21] <Pilky> well I'm thinking of me and my friend each having personal branches, plus the checkout of the central repo
[12:21] <Pilky> when we want to put something onto launchpad we merge into the checkout and then commit
[12:22] <Peng> I'd use a branch and merge, commit, push. Shrug.
[12:22] <Pilky> yeah, we're just finding some problems with that with us both working on the same branch
[12:24] <Peng> What problems?
[12:25] <Pilky> lots of conflicts and such, just seems to be a bit more awkward
[12:27] <Pilky> I saw it mention using a checkout for putting stuff into launchpad and a separate personal branch for doing most of the editing in the launchpad docs and thought it sounded like it would work better
[13:27] <emgent> heya
[14:00] <gumpa> Howdy, I thought I could "bzr init-repository <myrepos>", do "bzr init <mybranch>" in <myrepos> and then bzr push bzr+ssh://..+junk/myrepos, guess not eh?
[14:00] <gumpa> can only push a branch, not a repository?
[14:00] <radix> gumpa: indeed
[14:01] <gumpa> thanks
[14:03] <Nyad> Hello, apparently bazaar only partially supports end of line conversion. isn't this bad if we have developers from different OS using bazaar for our project?
[14:04] <bob2> depends
[14:04] <bob2> if everyone uses an ok editor, it won't matter
[14:05] <bob2> for source/text files, at least
[14:06] <Nyad> so basically all our editors must use the same end of line ascii characters. but that would restrict us to not being able to use any editor
[14:06] <bob2> no, not at all
[14:06] <bob2> you just need an editor that ill sue whatever a file already uses
[14:07] <bob2> er "will use"
[14:07] <Nyad> why hasn't bazaar added this end of line conversion?
[14:07] <bob2> but a cvs-esque feature for bzr is under development
[14:10] <bob2> doing it cleanly is hard, and no one has done it yet (well, not had it merged into mainline)
[14:11] <Nyad> so if we start our project with the windows ascii value for end of lines then kate and wordpad will keep it that way?
[14:13] <bob2> never used kate, but I would be surprised if it didn't
[14:14] <Nyad> ok tnx
[14:14] <TheSheep> wordpad coul have problems
[14:14] <Nyad> which would you say is easier to use, bazaar or SVK?
[14:14] <bob2> with windows line endings?
[14:14] <Nyad> yes
[14:14] <TheSheep> bob2: ah, sorry
[14:14] <bob2> bzr for sure
[14:14] <bob2> svk will get upset if you move a checkout
[14:15] <Peng> The only options are bzr or svk?
[14:16] <Nyad> for us, we narrowed it down to those two
[14:16] <bob2> why not hg as well?
[14:17] <Nyad> never heard of it
[14:20] <Peng> You should have.
[14:20] <Nyad> how does it compare to bazaar and SVK?
[14:20] <Nyad> or is it not really important which we use?
[14:24] <Peng> I like both bzr and hg. They both have their upsides and downsides and IMO it's a toss-up. I've never used svk and don't plan to.
[14:25] <Nyad> ok thanks. I have to go now
[14:25] <Nyad> I will look into hg
[14:31] <Peng> Oops.
[14:31] <bob2> haha
[14:31] <Peng> "Hello, welcome to #bzr. You should try out hg!".
[14:32] <Peng> I got yelled at a bit for that once. :\
[14:33] <Peng> I'm just not very brand-loyal.
[14:33] <TheSheep> I think it's important to just be honest and to recommend whatever sems best in the situation
[14:33] <TheSheep> seems
[14:33] <fullermd> Which is obviously ClearCase.
[14:35] <Peng> In this case, hg does have line ending conversions, based on globbing the file path.
[14:38] <Pilky> not quite sure how the line endings are that big a problem unless you use a crap text editor
[14:40] <Peng> It's nice to set that "just to be safe". When one developer uses a weird editor just once and doesn't notice, it makes a bit a mess of history.
[14:41] <Pilky> true
[15:34] <Kinnison> 3
[15:35] <Kinnison> oops ,w/w sorry
[17:16] <sabdfl> Peng: i saw you saying that bzr check is slow for you. it's fast for me. what are you comparing it to?
[17:17] <Peng> sabdfl: I just mean vs. "hg verify".
[17:17] <sabdfl> are you sure they do the same level of analysis?
[17:19] <Peng> sabdfl: hg verify is so fast that I doubt it does much of anything.
[17:19] <sabdfl> then it would seem unfair to criticize bzr for doing a rigorous job ;-)
[17:19] <Peng> :)
[17:26] <visik7> can I remove files from a repository ?
[17:41] <Pilky> visik7: bzr remove [FILES...]
[17:42] <Pilky> add --keep to the end if you don't want the files deleted on disk
[17:44] <visik7> Pilky: from a shared repository not from a branch
[17:45] <visik7> I've removed from a branch but the shared repository still contains the files
[17:45] <Pilky> visik7: I think if you push to the shared repo it will remove it
[17:46] <visik7> mmm no
[17:46] <LeoNerd> Umm... it can't.
[17:46] <visik7> I've erroneously versioned 200mb of jpeg
[17:46] <LeoNerd> Half the point of revision control, is that you can check out an earlier point in history
[17:46] <visik7> and now they are in the .bzr of the shared repo
[17:46] <LeoNerd> So that data has to remain in the repo
[17:47] <LeoNerd> What I suggest you do is create a new branch that cherrypicks the old one, and don't include the revision that added that file
[17:47] <LeoNerd> Then you'll be left with a new branch that has "holes" in the history; that one file never existed. You can then push this new branch back over the old one
[17:48] <Pilky> oh, you were wanting to remove the actual file
[17:59] <LeoNerd> I imagine this is one of those usual "I want to pretend this file never existed" situations..
[17:59] <LeoNerd> Usually they come up either by someone adding/commiting a file of secrets (keys, passwords, etc..) or from just adding really big junk files
[18:57] <Rhamphoryncus> oww.. printing out the full tree is not a very useful debugging message
[20:14] <grantgm> is it possible to get a 'bzr stat'-style difference between branches? 'bzr status -r ../../criss/' gave me this error: http://pastebin.ca/1029096
[20:29] <Peng> grantgm: bzr help revisionspec
[20:29]  * Peng leaves.
[20:44] <grantgm> right. i meant bzr status -r branch:../../criss/
[20:44] <grantgm> that should work, no?
[20:51] <Pieter> what d=
[20:51] <Pieter> output would you expect?
[20:53] <grantgm> as i said, i was looking for a bzr stat between two different branches
[20:54] <grantgm> but it errors out (full message in at http://pastebin.ca/1029096)
[20:54] <Pieter> yes, but what should it show? what if both have changed a file? or just one?
[20:56] <grantgm> well, i would expect it to use the directory given as the old one, and the current directory as the new. Thats the convention, right?
[20:57] <grantgm> So if there was a difference between the files, it would be under 'changed', regardless of which branch made the change
[20:57] <Pieter> not for stat
[20:57] <Pieter> you can do a bzr diff between the two
[21:00] <grantgm> I guess I don't understand what the -r arg does for stat, then.
[21:01] <grantgm> Can I get diff to just show me which files have changed, rather than the actual changes?
[21:01] <grantgm> thats really what I'm looking for. stat just seemed to be the most obvious way to do so
[21:02] <grantgm> thanks for the help, btw
[21:04] <grantgm> hmmm...looks like this is a known problem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/144421
[21:13] <grantgm> bzr diff --old=../../criss  --using=diff --diff-options="--brief"
[21:14] <grantgm> fwiw, that seems to do essentially what I'm looking for
[21:43] <asabil> how can I resolve a directory conflict ?
[23:05] <beuno> lifeless, when you deprecated get_revision_graph in 1.4, what would be the way to do it now?
[23:59] <igc> morning
[23:59] <poolie> hello
[23:59] <igc> hi poolie
[23:59] <poolie> hello
[23:59] <spiv> Good morning.
[23:59] <beuno> morning everyone


[13:13] <Brainstorm> 🌖 भूकंप? Earthquake? Likely moderate tremor, with 3 reports, 2 early, unknown frequency, possibly occurred 1 minute ago (13:11:15 UTC), with a gibbous moon, Noksen, Nagaland, India (26.44, 94.72) ± 38 km likely felt 140 km away (Twitter)
[13:28] <Brainstorm> 🌖 भूकंप! Earthquake! 4.7 M tremor, registered by USGS,myearthquakeapp, with 5 reports, unknown frequency, occurred 17 minutes ago (13:10:54 UTC), with a gibbous moon, Manja, Diphu, Assam, India (26.0, 93.38) ± 9 km likely felt 130 km away (in Kohima, Manja, Dimapur, Nagaon…) by 175000 people (Twitter)


[12:28] <minghua> sistpoty: is it just non-free or non-distributable?  there doesn't seem to be a license in it
[12:28] <sistpoty> minghua: I don't know actually, since there is no license but a copyright statement
[12:29] <sistpoty> minghua: might be non-distributable, but might be given to public domain from apple as well
[12:29] <minghua> right.  so it's quite unclear
[12:30] <minghua> for non-distributable files I suppose things should be fixed
[12:30] <minghua> non-free probably doesn't matter much
[12:38] <cjwatson> sistpoty: I'd be inclined to see what upstream know before panicking
[12:38] <sistpoty> cjwatson: it's coming from gentoo, and afaict is still in the repos
[12:38] <cjwatson> though I see it was removed in a Debian update, hmm
[12:39] <cjwatson> sistpoty: modifying edgy itself is kind of a nuclear measure, and I'd prefer not to do it unless there is an actual legal threat
[12:40] <cjwatson> sistpoty: I'd certainly be willing to discuss an update, or something, but not at 23:40 on a Friday night. :-)
[12:40] <cjwatson> sistpoty: feel free to mail me
[12:41] <sistpoty> cjwatson: ok... will do so. Just wanted to know if that's s.th. really urgent ;)
[12:41] <sistpoty> cjwatson: I guess I'll do it via the regular motu-sru policy then, ok?
[12:41] <cjwatson> that's fine with me. If there's a threat of legal action, please let me know and I'll see that it's escalated appropriately
[12:42] <sistpoty> cjwatson: alright. thanks
[12:42] <cjwatson> I don't think we've ever modified a released suite before (apart from some changes to the Task headers in breezy's Packages files, which was sort of by accident and ended badly anyway)
[12:43] <sistpoty> oh, nice
[12:45] <elmo> sistpoty: if it's only that file, I very much doubt that's a copyrightable work
[12:45] <sistpoty> elmo: only this file, yes
[12:46] <elmo> sistpoty: then, FWIW, I really wouldn't worry about it in released distributions
[12:47] <sistpoty> elmo: ah, k... thanks
[12:50] <cjwatson> (I agree with elmo, but didn't want to make that claim off my own bat while as tired as I am)
[12:50] <cjwatson> it falls under the "only one way to do it" thing
[12:50] <cjwatson> anyway, bed
[12:50] <imbrandon> gnight cjwatson
[12:51] <sistpoty> gn8 cjwatson
[12:51] <imbrandon> see yall
[12:51] <sistpoty> gn8 imbrandon as well
[01:09] <Drako60> i know this isn't the place for help, but i need some help befor my kernel deciedes to crash again, http://pastebin.ca/280555
[01:10] <minghua> Drako60: please report bugs instead of asking here
[04:18] <bronson> Does anyone cross-compile their packages for different architectures?
[04:19] <bronson> I have some kernel packages that I'd like to provide on more than just x86.
[04:19] <bronson> And I don't want to buy a Sparc64 box.
[04:19] <bronson> Actually, yes I do.
[04:19] <bronson> I don't want to *pay for* a sparc64 box.
[04:20] <Hobbsee> bronson: use a VM or something?
[04:20] <bronson> Maybe.  I'd be afraid of the speed if it's emulating.
[04:21] <bronson> Seems better to just run gcc natively, but outputting packages for a different architecture.  Just wondering if anyone's done this before.
[04:21] <Hobbsee> probably.  i havent
[04:21] <bronson> Gotta admit, sounds like a fun thing to play around with.
[04:21] <bronson> Wish I had more time...
[05:32] <keescook> hmpf, the python.a file in python-dev wasn't compiled with -fPIC?
[06:44] <BenC> Mithrandir: ping
[07:22] <bronson> I found a bug in the graphviz-cairo package but I can't figure out how to enter it in Launchpad.
[07:22] <bronson> Do I have to register graphviz-cairo as a product?
[07:23] <bronson> When I search in Launchpad, it says "graphviz-cairo" is not known.
[07:24] <bronson> Ah, forget it.
[07:24] <bronson> Launchpad is just too difficult to use.
[07:24] <bronson> And this bug is not big enough to worry about -- just bad dependencies.
[10:33] <cjwatson> bronson: start at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug and enter graphviz-cairo as the source package
[10:33] <bronson> Ah good, I'll give that a shot.
[10:33] <bronson> cjwatson: thanks.
[10:34] <cjwatson> np
[01:55] <cypher1> http://shootingthekids.dpblogs.com/2006/12/14/yo-mamma-likes-ubuntu/
[01:55] <cypher1> thanks to ubuntu guys ! :)
[03:09] <theBishop> has anyone booted Ubuntu PPC on a Playstation3 yet?
[04:08] <sistpoty> hi folks
[04:26] <mdke_> who is the right person to talk to at Canonical about questions of copyright?
[04:46] <BenC> Mithrandir: ping
[04:47] <BenC> mdke_: Exactly what type of question do you have?
[04:48] <mdke_> BenC: I have a question about whether Canonical are prepared to waive their copyright on some material
[04:49] <BenC> ping anyone that can process NEW archive stuff
[04:49] <BenC> mdke_: Hmm...I would guess the best starting point is Matt Zimmerman<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:49] <mdke_> BenC: ok, I'll try him. Thanks
[04:50] <mdke_> mdz: if you're here, let me know.
[04:57] <mdke_> mdz: alright, no worries, I've mailed
[06:40] <Amaranth> BenC: did the fix for bug 74472 fix sound on your laptop?
[06:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 74472 in linux-source-2.6.20 "[ALSA]  quiet sound until after hibernate" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74472
[06:52] <Mithrandir> BenC: please include a bit of context with your pings; if it's NEW-ing lrm, I'll do that when I get home (I'm going out now-ish)
[07:59] <BenC> Mithrandir: Sorry, it's newing LRM, but also need linux-source-2.6.20 published, it has some new udeb's that need processing
[08:33] <twb> Mithrandir: hey, so you know how I merged the debian stuff into casper?  When can I expect that to turn up as a .deb in feisty?  (Maybe it's already there; I haven't looked yet.)
[11:51] <Zmax> have you ever heard an operating system named "SignalOS"?
[11:52] <shackan> it used to be a popular joke
[11:53] <Zmax> lol
[11:53] <Zmax> popular?
[11:53] <Zmax> google for SignalOS
[11:53] <Zmax> there are some sites
[11:53] <Zmax> stc
[11:53] <Zmax> etc


[14:35] <highvoltage> good morning
[14:39] <mhall119> and a cold one too
[14:39] <mhall119> 60F down here
[14:55] <charlie-tca> *gm, and all the way up to 33F here
[14:55] <charlie-tca> good morning from Idaho
[15:34] <highvoltage> 3°C here, not sure what that is in F :)
[15:45] <charlie-tca> umm, if I remember right, COLD?
[16:05] <mhall119> in Floridian, that's F-ing COLD
[16:12] <charlie-tca> :-)
[16:18] <highvoltage> hehe
[20:08] <sbalneav> Am I reading this right?
[20:08] <sbalneav> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/551
[20:08] <mhall119> yup
[20:08] <sbalneav> We're no longer using Gnome or Xorg?
[20:09] <mhall119> it'll still run Gnome
[20:09] <mhall119> and wayland can run xorg also
[20:09] <mhall119> so any xorg app will run
[20:10] <mhall119> there are current efforts to port GTK+ and QT to native wayland clients
[20:10] <mhall119> it'll probably end up like OSX in a few years, where xorg is an add-on environment
[20:21] <jbicha> sbalneav: how were you meaning to read it?
[20:25] <charlie-tca> but it won't happen for a while
[20:27] <mhall119> and it sounds like it'll only be for Unity, not the "2d" gnome
[20:28] <charlie-tca> I wonder how much the 2d gnome will actually work? It won't be installed by default, it won't use wayland, which will be the default.
[20:28] <charlie-tca> and I happen to own all nvidia cards
[20:31] <jbicha> yeah, but how long is Gnome upstream going to maintain gdm 2.x ?
[20:31] <highvoltage> wayland is a good idea, but I can't see how the transition to it can't suck. it's going to be an interesting few releases.
[20:31] <charlie-tca> I read QT should be fully ported by 2012 ?
[20:32] <charlie-tca> I am looking forward to it. Xorg kinda sucks already
[20:33] <highvoltage> charlie-tca: you think wayland is going to be nicer than x-org any time soon? :)
[20:34] <highvoltage> sure the design is nice, but it's going to take some time to get there
[20:34] <charlie-tca> heh
[20:34] <charlie-tca> I wouldn't dare think that way
[20:34] <charlie-tca> :-)
[20:42] <mhall119> charlie-tca: 2d gnome will still be installed by default as far as I've heard
[20:46] <charlie-tca> nope
[20:47] <charlie-tca> saw on a bug report comment from Mark that it will not be on the live cd and and will not install by default
[20:47] <charlie-tca> or maybe I misunderstood?
[20:48] <charlie-tca> I thought it would be installed too.
[20:50] <mhall119> Unity is still going to need > 90% of Gnome
[20:51] <charlie-tca> I just have to wait to see it
[20:51] <mhall119> I can't imagine metacity and the panels take up that much space on the livecd
[20:51] <charlie-tca> should be a testable version next week
[20:53] <sbalneav> IMHO, I originally switched over from Debian to Ubuntu because Ubuntu promised to be Debian with all the rough edges smoothed out.
[20:54] <charlie-tca> It just gets better :-)
[20:54] <sbalneav> For me, no it doesn't.  It's only gotten worse. :(
[20:55] <highvoltage> charlie-tca: indeed! we're going to have to do some waiting and seeing :)
[20:56] <highvoltage> sbalneav: weren't you one of the people last weekend who laughed at me because I run debian on my netbook?
[20:56] <sbalneav> Nope.
[20:56] <sbalneav> I wasn't.
[20:56] <highvoltage> ah, ok. (good!)
[20:56] <sbalneav> I was the guy who was complaining about bug fixing :)
[20:57] <sbalneav> And harping on compiz :)
[20:57] <highvoltage> ah right
[20:57] <sbalneav> Yeah, we'll have to see.
[20:57] <highvoltage> I considered running Debian on my laptop too, but for the moment it's really convenient since most of my work happens around Ubuntu anyway


[03:22] <Unit193> jacob: I must say, for some odd reason I love your pic. :P
[15:09] <thafreak> any cbus area people interested in a unix admin job
[15:09] <thafreak> for whatever reason a recruiter contacted me about it on linked in
[15:09] <thafreak> it's for abercrombie
[15:09] <paultag> get fly as hell while doing it
[15:09] <thafreak> so if you like unix, too much perfume and naked models...might be your gig
[15:10] <paultag> it's actually pretty temptin
[15:10] <paultag> tempting
[15:10] <paultag> if only abrocrombie wasn't super last-decade
[15:10] <paultag> but it would be awesome
[15:11] <thafreak> suuuure....ok
[15:11] <thafreak> at least they have good taste in OS
[15:11] <thafreak> well maybe
[15:11] <paultag> truf
[15:11] <thafreak> maybe they're aix or solaris
[15:11] <thafreak> she did just say "unix admin"
[15:11] <thafreak> which means she doesn't actually know
[15:15] <canthus13> "Hi, are your wifi lines down?" o.o
[15:19] <yano> "Well you better go pick them up!"
[15:27] <canthus13> heh.
[18:51] <thafreak> herding cats...
[18:51] <thafreak> i've heard the term used...
[18:51] <thafreak> now I think I understand when people say their job is like herding cats...
[18:52] <thafreak> Good news though, told my boss java sucks, when she asked what I thought of alfresco
[18:52] <thafreak> said I thought drupal was easier to use...and she knew how little I liked drupal
[18:53]  * thafreak grumbles as he goes back to trying to create alfresco extensions...
[19:04] <thafreak> https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/58786_463136303709013_613577774_n.jpg
[19:47] <canthus13> Herding cats.. kinda like getting php to work.
[20:14] <thafreak> i think it's more like convincing your boss she doesn't want what she thinks she wants...
[20:14] <thafreak> and getting her to leave your office without having her have you do more work
[22:25] <yano> LAN Party Tomorrow at OSU, http://redd.it/109rex