[15:44] <rizky> like
[15:52] <dragos> Hello , everyone
[15:54] <neurot> Hello
[15:54] <popey> hello!
[15:54]  * popey looks for dholbach
[15:54] <dholbach> almost there
[15:59] <popey> Tick tock
[16:01] <dragos> QUESTION:How to get a free ubuntu phone? I'm a developer with big plans but i need an ubuntu phone\
[16:01] <dragos> QUESTION:How to get a free ubuntu phone? I'm a developer with big plans but i need an ubuntu phone
[16:02] <tsimonq2> oh HELLO guys :D
[16:02] <tsimonq2> is this the right channel to be in, popey?
[16:03] <tsimonq2> for ubuntuonair.com
[16:03] <popey> yup yup
[16:03] <tsimonq2> yay :)
[16:03] <tsimonq2> popey: could you link those for us?
[16:03] <tsimonq2> or dholbach?
[16:03] <dragos> QUESTION:How to get an ubuntu phone for free? I'm a developer with big plans but I don't have an ubuntu phone and I need one
[16:04] <popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-community-team
[16:04] <popey> https://www.youtube.com/user/UbuntuOnAir
[16:04] <tsimonq2> thanks!
[16:04] <theBest> Will all the legacy programs (like gimp, libreoffice, firefox,...) be available for arm-based converged devices? I assume first only the open source programs will be recompiled for arm-based devices!?
[16:04] <tsimonq2> dragos: +1
[16:04] <neurot> Q: When are we going to see unity 8
[16:04] <dragos> tsimonq2: ?
[16:05] <theBest> QUESTION: Any news on how the scops will work and look on the Unity 8-Desktop?
[16:05] <tsimonq2> dholbach: QUESTION: if you would like to help out with Snappy development, where do you go?
[16:06] <mariogrip> QUESTION: Is there any plans of a "preview" version of snappy on ubuntu touch any time soon?
[16:06] <dholbach> theBest, make sure you prefix your questions with QUESTION:
[16:07] <nxvl> dholback: nice beard!
[16:07] <mariogrip> ChloeWolfieGirl: Hi :)
[16:07] <dholbach> nxvl, haha :)
[16:07] <tsimonq2> all subscribed :D
[16:07] <tsimonq2> (to the mailing list)
[16:07] <theBest> dholbach, I did...
[16:07] <ChloeWolfieGirl> mariogrip: oh Hai
[16:07] <alexpag> hello from Corfu Greece. QUESTION: Is app grid going to replace ubuntu software center in 16.04 Lts release?
[16:07] <tsimonq2> popey: QUESTION: Do you have an Ubuntu phone, and if so, where do you get one?
[16:07] <dholbach> theBest, ah, I was looking at the question about legacy programs earlier :)
[16:08] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: Gnome Store is replacing the ubuntu software center in unity7 how will this affect click packages unity8 and other things?
[16:08] <theBest> dholbach, oh sorry. I forgot it.
[16:08] <dholbach> no worries :)
[16:09] <mhall119> ChloeWolfieGirl: tl;dr: not at all
[16:09] <dholbach> I was just reading the backlog and saw it :)
[16:09] <ChloeWolfieGirl> mhall119: thats good :3
[16:10] <theBest> QUESTION: How are you?
[16:10] <mhall119> ChloeWolfieGirl: from what I understand, Gnome Apps supports plugins for different backends, so the desktop team is building a backend for the current desktop store, but both will go away in favor of the click/snappy store when Unity 8 is used
[16:14] <ChloeWolfieGirl> mhall119: Yeah I thought that the ubuntu store would be favored in unity8 but I was wondering the plan to get clicks and snaps into the gnome store
[16:15] <mhall119> there might be a Gnome Apps backend for the snappy store, that was discussed at UOS
[16:15] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: What features and updates are you excited for in OTA9 :P
[16:17] <popey> http://store.bq.com/es/ubuntu-edition-e-4-5-outlet
[16:17] <cool_cat> QUESTION: the current unity8 theme looks weird. when will we have a new theme and how it will look like? will it be like ambiance?
[16:17] <Rat_> QUESTION : is there any chance we can expect a convertable os in ubuntu phones ?
[16:18] <cool_cat> QUESTION: related to the previous question, how hard is to make my own theme? do i have to know c#?
[16:18] <_Ridgewing> QUESTION: What are the ethical questions that need to be answered about Ubuntu members asking for crowdfunding to go to the Feb UbuCon in California ?
[16:19] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: talking about themes, any updates on customisable things such as different keyboards, cursors, icons, etc?
[16:19] <core_apps_police> QUESTION: Can we expect a Facebook scope like the one we've got with OTA8?
[16:19] <tsimonq2> ooh :)
[16:22] <core_apps_police> QUESTION: The Unity8 desktop will receive monthly updates like the phones? Or just like the current method?
[16:22] <cool_cat> QUESTION: why is not SDL2 installed and supported by default? i have really a hard time with simple things like making the app full screen or loading an image :'(
[16:23] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: what plans are there to make scopes more useful and engaging?
[16:24] <tsimonq2> hahahaha FINALLY gets the pronounciation of my username right :D
[16:24] <_Ridgewing> QUESTION: I've been waiting over a month for Ubuntu Community Funding - what's taking so long ?
[16:25] <cool_cat> QUESTION: have you heard the news about jolla going to the death valley (x3), what can ubuntu do to not meet jolla in the valley
[16:25] <_Ridgewing> ^?
[16:25] <ChloeWolfieGirl> cool_cat I know little about this, what is happening with jolla, is it just switching to creating software only, or is sailfish dead?
[16:25] <dragonbite> QUESTION: Is the move from Unity 7 to Unity 8 going to be smoother than the KDE 3 to KDE 4 to Plasma 5 or Gnome 2 to Gnome 3 or Windows 7 to Windows 8 migration headaches or are they doomed to repeat history (and wails of pain and anguish)?
[16:25] <mhall119> cool_cat: well, we have a pretty reliable investor, for one thing :)
[16:26] <cool_cat> the lord of teh dragons :P
[16:26] <cool_cat> ChloeWolfieGirl: they are restructuring or something https://blog.jolla.com/open-letter-jolla-community/
[16:27] <ChloeWolfieGirl> cool_cat: ah oki
[16:29] <_Ridgewing> go gnome !
[16:29] <_Ridgewing> good games tab, recently.
[16:30] <tsimonq2> yes!
[16:30] <tsimonq2> popey: you are the ONLY person that pronounces it correctly! :D
[16:30] <cool_cat> QUESTION: on android you can now sell apps as low as 0.22$ (depending on the country), are there any plans to implement virtual currencies so we "developers" can sell an app at whatever price? users will still have to pay a minimum sum but they then can pay whatever the app costs
[16:30] <nxvl> so NOT hard to picture popey jumping around in joy
[16:30] <_Ridgewing> ooh complicated one.
[16:31] <cool_cat> QUESTION: any news on bq's russian launch? does putin love the bq ubuntu phone?
[16:34] <_Ridgewing> QUESTION: Who has StarWars tickets ?
[16:35] <_Ridgewing> QUESTION: Sith or Jedi ?
[16:37] <nakanut> QUESTION: Is bluetooth FTP and plug-ins for file manager/gallery/etc. being actively worked on for Ubuntu Touch?
[16:38] <mhall119> popey: opposite
[16:38] <dragonbite> QUESTION: Is Unity 8 going to be better for gaming, or the same as Unity 7?
[16:39] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: Have any of you got a steam machine and what do you think of it and how it'll affect gaming on Ubuntu and Ubuntu adoption?
[16:40] <_Ridgewing> Virgin-Atlantic is £540 return from the UK to LAX, using delta to come back on.
[16:41] <tsimonq2> QUESTION: Is Unity 8 going to be lighter then Unity 7? I don't like the memory hog that is Unity 7 using 3 of my 8 gigs of RAM.
[16:42] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: Any update on the HUD or the music indicator things like skip, icon, name of song etc?
[16:42] <koertis> QUESTION: How happy are you with the progress which ubuntu phone made the last couple months until it was launched in February? I had some rumor that it will be available for purchases in shops next year, is this still feasible?
[16:42]  * mhall119 loves that ChloeWolfieGirl asks after the HUD at every opportunity :)
[16:42] <ahayzen> ChloeWolfieGirl, music indicator WIP :-) likely OTA9ish
[16:43] <ChloeWolfieGirl> mhall119: Haha :) I'm glad we both agree that the HUD is loved and needed :P
[16:43] <mhall119> ChloeWolfieGirl: I ask tedg about it every time I see him
[16:43] <mhall119> same with johnlea
[16:45] <ChloeWolfieGirl> ahayzen: :D Its nice seeing it and having it there :P
[16:45] <ChloeWolfieGirl> mhall119: Haha they need to know we want it, its important
[16:45] <ahayzen> ChloeWolfieGirl, we're getting closer and closer :-) parts are going through QA at the moment
[16:46] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: The idea of the Facebook scope like the twitter scope, how about G+ or Diaspora scopes similar and then a social agregator? :P
[16:46] <ChloeWolfieGirl> ahayzen: exciting :)
[16:46] <ahayzen> :-)
[16:47] <ChloeWolfieGirl> ahayzen: its something I look at every few updates on rc to see if something new there :P
[16:47] <ahayzen> hehe
[16:48] <ahayzen> the music-app click we can't land until its in a stable, but the media-hub portions are partially there already ;-)
[16:48] <tsimonq2> QUESTION: How will the snappy transition affect the flavors?
[16:49] <core_apps_police> QUESTION: Are WE (developers, translators, Canonical, phone-vendors, etc) ready to have phones on fiscally stores? Can you imagine that day? A day wen people make a queue to buy one phone, like those with new iPhones :p
[16:50] <_Ridgewing> QUESTION: Why is the last link on wiki.ubuntu.com/Social for couchsurFing not working ?
[16:52] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: When can we have physical Ubuntu stores ;)
[16:53] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: Any plans for a ubuntu edge 2.0?
[16:58] <ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: As a way to get more apps on ubuntu phones are there plans to make deals with companys so canonical makes said app such as a native facebook, or a game like doodle jump or sonic for companys for our phone so we get apps and the companys dont have to worry about making one, much like telegram, or is this spreading developers to thin and have other issues?
[17:00] <_Ridgewing> dholbach: Can I talk to you about the community funding, quickly ?
[17:01] <mhall119> good show popey and dholbach
[17:01] <dholbach> thanks mhall119
[17:01] <_Ridgewing> yeps yayz !! \o/
[17:01] <dholbach> _Ridgewing, sure
[17:01] <dholbach> thanks a lot everyone!
[17:01] <ChloeWolfieGirl> Thanks guys :D
[17:02] <_Ridgewing> Ok, so my name is yselnne .. I asked for $30 community funding.
[17:02] <popey> Thanks everyone!
[17:02] <ahayzen> thanks dholbach popey :-)


[09:33] <JonathanD> Morning.
[09:36] <rmg51> Morning
[09:39] <JonathanD> Hi rmg51
[09:57] <rmg51> o/
[10:02] <JonathanD> how goes?
[10:33] <rmg51> slow and steady
[12:20] <InHisName> chilly mornin'
[12:21] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples,dogs, turkeys and everything else
[18:04] <ChinnoDog> Network Solutions is broken today
[18:04] <TheLordOfTime> old news
[18:06] <ChinnoDog> How do you guard against your root DNS server tanking?
[18:07] <TheLordOfTime> redundant backups
[18:08] <ChinnoDog> I mean how do you make sure your web site resolves during an outage like this?
[18:09] <ChinnoDog> The problem is that one or more of the Network Solutions DNS servers is not working
[18:09] <ChinnoDog> Multiple NS servers isn't going to help if the root server is offline
[18:13] <pleia2> network solutions doesn't run the root servers, those are run by ICANN
[18:13] <pleia2> unless you mean something else by "root server"?
[18:14] <pleia2> and your master dns server can go down, but the slaves should still work fine, they just won't get updated
[18:14] <TheLordOfTime> mhm
[18:14] <pleia2> (that's kind of the whole point :))
[18:14] <TheLordOfTime> exactly
[18:15] <pleia2> typically people put their nameservers in different physical locations to prevent multiple ones going out at once, or sync between multiple providers
[18:16] <pleia2> but honestly, most people stick with one provider and trust they are redundant as they should be (not great, but common enough, I do it)
[18:16] <ChinnoDog> It isn't one of the DNS servers for the domain, it is the Network Solutions server that points to the next level DNS servr. Does that make it a .com server? I'm not sure since I don't know how the load of TLDs are distributed.
[18:17] <ChinnoDog> When I try to resolve the affected domains the query times out
[18:18] <ChinnoDog> Looks like it is fixed now. Seems to be a single point of failure I can't do anything about though.
[18:21] <pleia2> yeah, this is a case of a whole provider failing
[18:21] <pleia2> on the bright side, you're not alone :D
[18:21] <ChinnoDog> Not very comforting. lol
[18:23] <ChinnoDog> This happened before and it was Network Solutions the last time as well
[18:26] <ChinnoDog> Looking for someone that has measured reliability of the registrars but I can't find any.


[05:06] <sonu_nk> Hi, I have a ubuntu server and facing FTP issue ...  I am connecting with my ftp user on one pc it is working fine means connecting but on second pc it is shwoing Network error: Connection timed out
[05:07] <dax> #ubuntu-irc is for IRC channel issues, you probably want #ubuntu or #ubuntu-server :)


[12:33] <keescook> jdub: happen to know if beagle restores access times when it crawls?
[12:33] <bhale> restores?
[12:33] <jdub> keescook: i don't
[12:33] <bhale> why bother
[12:34] <bhale> i dont know for sure but i highly doubt it
[12:34] <keescook> bhale: because I think it just wrecked all my mbox files' atimes.  :)
[12:34] <bhale> ok :)
[12:34] <bhale> ahaha
[12:35] <johanbr> So *that's* what "cup of joe" means.
[12:35] <bhale> jdub: on tap like a Tower?
[12:35] <keescook> something did, and beagle is only recent change I can remember...
[12:35] <jdub> on tap like ubuntu
[12:35] <jdub> http://www.ucc.asn.au/services/ubuntu.ucc
[12:35] <bhale> this includes music
[12:36] <bhale> about the slickest hack ever
[01:28] <jdub> keescook: yes, it appears likely that beagle doesn't specifically handle that problem with mboxes
[01:29] <keescook> jdub: okay, good to know.  (... "dpkg -P beagle")
[01:42] <TheMuso> c
[05:15] <tonyyarusso> BenC: Hey, do you have any idea what changes between Breezy and Dapper/Edgy may have caused bug #42718?
[05:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42718 in linux-source-2.6.17 "Sound capture on Thinkpad T20, T21, T22 not working" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42718
[05:16] <infinity> tonyyarusso: You might want to ask crimsun, he's our sound guru.
[05:16] <BenC> tonyyarusso: nothing in particular, except the upgrade of alsa :)
[05:19] <tonyyarusso> BenC: Some of the comments on it say it happens with alsa and oss, which makes it even more odd.
[05:19] <tonyyarusso> Is crimsun around atm?
[05:22] <tonyyarusso> Is there anything I can do to help get this bug fixed quickly other than pinging crimsun if I don't have the skills to actually work on it myself?
[07:01] <fabbione> morning
[07:04] <Amaranth> morning
[08:16] <Hobbsee> morning pitti!
[08:16] <pitti> Good mornign everyone!
[08:32] <Mez> mdz: anything else you need regarding that katapult SRU ?
[08:33] <Mez> infinity, did you get my emails ?
[09:06] <dholbach> good morning
[09:07] <_ion> Good night.
[09:08] <dholbach> night _ion :-)
[09:38] <pygi> pitti: you saw the -tao thingy I was talking about to siretar*t
[09:38] <pygi>  ?
[09:52] <grndslm> you guys take suggestions, right?
[09:54] <grndslm> all the devs are asleep!?!?
[09:54] <pygi> grndslm: no :P
[09:55] <Hobbsee> grndslm: no.  your questoin is very open-ended though
[09:55] <grndslm> heh....would it be possible to just right click on one gnome-panel and un/lock all the applets, etc...instead of having to right-click each individual item??
[09:55] <Hobbsee> as in, no they're not asleep
[09:56] <Hobbsee> i'd imagine that's a gnome setting?  dholbach?
[09:57] <infinity> grndslm: I'd imagine you'd have more success filing a wishlist bug.
[09:57] <dholbach> grndslm: yes, what infinity said - although I think there was a bug along those lines already.
[09:57] <infinity> dholbach: Pfft, what do you know about GNOME? :)
[09:57] <dholbach> right
[09:58] <infinity> Especially GNOME bugs in Ubuntu.  Seriously.  Delusions of grandeur.
[09:58] <infinity> Also, 3 more days!  Which one of us owes the other more drinks?  Has it evened out by now?
[09:59] <ajmitch> evening infinity
[09:59] <grndslm> it's just crazy that after as many releases as gnome has had, nobody's fixed that
[09:59] <infinity> grndslm: It's not so much "no one fixed it" as "n one implemented it"... It's not a bug, just a feature you may want.  T obe fair, it's a feature I never even thought about until 5 minutes ago.
[09:59] <infinity> s/doze/dozen/
[10:00] <dholbach> infinity: even if you drank as much as you can, you'd walk home with barrels and bottles of booze :-)
[10:00] <infinity> ajmitch: Yo.
[10:00] <infinity> dholbach: I dunno.  Every time you fix vte/gnome-terminal, you get a gold star from me.
[10:00] <ajmitch> infinity: a few of us are meeting in SFO & catching the train down, might be cheaper than the shuttle
[10:00] <grndslm> well...that's why i'd rather tell the ubuntu-devs because they seem to have better organized priorities than the debian/gnome guys
[10:00] <infinity> dholbach: Then again, perhaps you're breaking it intentionally so you can later fix it and get gold stars.  Hrm.
[10:01] <infinity> ajmitch: Are we on the same flight?
[10:01] <ajmitch> yeah, NZ8 to SFO
[10:01] <dholbach> infinity: right, I specifically patched out some features
[10:01] <infinity> Right.
[10:01] <infinity> ajmitch: Well, I live carry-on only so I can avoid baggage carousels.  If you do the same, let's hook up at the gate.  If not, I'll be long gone before you see the light of day. :)
[10:01] <infinity> dholbach: I knew it.
[10:02] <ajmitch> I'll probably be held up waiting for bags, and customs :)
[10:02] <jdub> grndslm: that means in some cases that you have to compete with those priorities instead of sorting things out upstream :)
[10:02] <Hobbsee> jdub: fix it, kthanksbye!
[10:02] <Hobbsee> jdub: tell pia i said hi, and that i really will get back to her soon :P
[10:03] <jdub> Hobbsee: fo'sho!
[10:03] <jdub> Hobbsee: only, we don't pass messages.
[10:03] <Hobbsee> ah
[10:03] <Hobbsee> heh
[10:03] <jdub> ;-)
[10:05] <dholbach> chip looks so cool: http://flickr.com/photos/chipx86/285519943/ :-)
[10:07] <grndslm> jdub, so you're tellin' me i should take it to the gnome devs then, eh?
[10:08] <infinity> dholbach: -EPARSE
[10:08] <infinity> dholbach: There are no "cool" people in free software.
[10:08] <dholbach> hehe
[10:08] <Treenaks> infinity: You're in the wrong free software then :P
[10:08] <infinity> Oh, but I guess being dressed as a LEGO minifig does come close...
[10:08] <Treenaks> or a different one, at least
[10:10] <grndslm> mark shuttleworth is damn cool
[10:10] <infinity> grndslm: He's not online right now -- sucking up won't do you any good. :)
[10:11] <infinity> So, who wants feisty to open today?
[10:11] <infinity> Let's see a show of hands.
[10:11] <pitti> ME!!!
[10:11] <ajmitch> sure, I want breakage
[10:11] <infinity> I think we're almost there.
[10:11] <ajmitch> well I just want to get stuff uploaded :)
[10:11] <pitti> $ ls uploads/feisty/*.changes|wc -l
[10:11] <pitti> 15
[10:11] <infinity> pitti: Slacker.
[10:11] <ajmitch> heh
[10:11] <dholbach> mvo: Alter!
[10:11] <Hobbsee> infinity: ME!!!!!!!
[10:11] <ajmitch> pitti: doing better than me!
[10:12] <mvo> dholbach: ALTER
[10:12] <sivang> infinity: ME!! nad I'm willing to through another bottle of olive oil at it :)
[10:12] <pitti> infinity: I love you, too
[10:12] <infinity> pitti: How many sync requests have you submitted along with those/ :)
[10:12] <pitti> infinity: not that much, maybe 10
[10:12] <infinity> Kay, so that brings your count to 25.  You win.
[10:12] <infinity> Though some MOTU folk have been going insane with sync requests.
[10:13] <pitti> I decided to spend the rest of the week on security updates and upstream'ish work
[10:13] <infinity> Sounds fair to me.
[10:13] <pitti> but if we can upload soon, so much the better :)
[10:13] <pitti> new craaack!
[10:13] <infinity> Should be able to.
[10:13] <pygi> pitti: work on libburn ;)
[10:13] <infinity> hppa bootstrap will take  abit longer, but we're not waiting on that, obviously.
[10:13] <Hobbsee> ooh!  new crack!!!!  yay :D
[10:14] <infinity> But, once this gcc build is done, we get to do another glibc build (fun!), then rebuild a mess of libraries to hide an ABI change (*cough*), then we're open for business.
[10:14] <sivang> infinity: why "hide" ? :)
[10:14] <infinity> So... We're close.. Ish.
[10:14] <pitti> infinity: will gcc 4.1 or 4.2 be the default for feisty?
[10:14] <infinity> 4.1
[10:14] <infinity> 4.2's release schedule doesn't love us.
[10:14] <pitti> ok, so we shouldn't see many FTBFS due to compiler issues at least
[10:15] <infinity> Any new FTBFSs will be due to kernel header changes.
[10:15] <infinity> Nothing from the compiler, though.
[10:15] <infinity> And glibc 2.4->2.5 looks pretty happily backward-compat.
[10:15] <pitti> infinity: 2.5 is running here for about three days without problems
[10:15] <pitti> the first upload broke locales, but that got fixed
[10:16] <infinity> "first upload"  We've only had one. :)
[10:16] <fabbione> there will be some other breakages
[10:16] <infinity> (You've been running test packages, though, I assume)
[10:16] <fabbione> infinity: my unofficial one to people
[10:16] <fabbione> yeah
[10:16] <pitti> infinity: oh, I meant fabbione's packages on people
[10:16] <sivang> infinity: what's the thing with the ABI change hideout? :)
[10:16] <fabbione> infinity: did you check your mailbox with the sparc rebuild?
[10:16] <fabbione> infinity: some of them are not really headers related
[10:17] <fabbione> infinity: others is something i already mailed -devel for reference
[10:17] <jdub> infinity: yay fisty
[10:17] <pitti> heh, Ubuntu 6.10 - the fistful fighter
[10:18] <pitti> 7.04 even
[10:18] <pitti> hey jdub!
[10:18] <fabbione> sivang: it's only for some math operation on ppc and sparc
[10:18] <fabbione> sivang: like long long but very very long doubles
[10:18] <infinity> I recommend most people stick with dipper, and avoid fisty.
[10:18] <sivang> fabbione: ohh, I see
[10:18] <infinity> ldbl128, even.
[10:18] <infinity> Not the sort of thing most people care about.
[10:19] <infinity> fabbione: Yeah, I've browser the mbox, it's pretty manageable.
[10:19] <fabbione> yes it is
[10:19] <infinity> sivang: There is no workaround apart from "we're rebuilding crap"
[10:19] <fabbione> all the IFA_ stuff is very easy
[10:19] <fabbione> the others.. dunno.. i didn't really look at them in details
[10:20] <sivang> infinity: okay, thanks for the info
[10:21] <grndslm> ok...last request and then I'm outta here....since ubuntu is primarily a desktop, don't you guys think that desktop users would appreciate being able to throw their mouse into the top-right corner and scroll up/down to adjust volume....i know i love it, and i'm sure most users would [grow to]  love having it there by default
[10:23] <sivang> grndslm: ubuntu is not primarily desktop, though, http://www.ubuntu.com/server .
[10:23] <grndslm> are you kidding?
[10:23] <grndslm> if you had to take a poll...you think there'd be more people using ubuntu as a server?
[10:24] <seb128> grndslm: people like to "throw their mouse into the top-right corner" and log out, lock their session, change user,e tc
[10:24] <grndslm> how many times to desktop users log out as opposed to adjust their volume, tho???
[10:24] <pygi> grndslm: more :P
[10:24] <seb128> grndslm: how many user have volume keys on their keyboard?
[10:24] <malcc> I log out once a day and change my volume only when I travel
[10:24] <infinity> I haven't used the volume applet once in the last 6 months.
[10:24] <grndslm> well, just cuz i can alt-tab to different windows, doesn't mean i can't select them with a mouse
[10:25] <grndslm> well, if you had it in the top right hand corner and listened to audio, you'd find it pretty damn useful
[10:25] <infinity> grndslm: I tihnk the point people are trying to make here is that the user will put stuff in the corner that is best for them.
[10:25] <seb128> I change the sound from the applet every now and then
[10:25] <seb128> probably not once a day
[10:25] <infinity> For me, the calendar is the thing I like to click on the most, so it lives there.
[10:25] <grndslm> infinity, but most people are st00pit, so why not just do it right the first time...isn't that the whole point of ubuntu?
[10:25] <grndslm> ok...but the calendar applet is huge
[10:25] <grndslm> the volume applet is friggin' tiny
[10:25] <seb128> doing right it not putting the volume there
[10:26] <infinity> grndslm: "right" implies that you know what's best for everyone.
[10:26] <seb128> people don't change their volume that often
[10:26] <pygi> grndslm: and you can't know that
[10:26] <infinity> grndslm: If you want the volume there, then move it. :)
[10:26] <seb128> when they do that's often with the keyboard or the app they are using
[10:26] <seb128> most of players have a volume slider
[10:26] <infinity> "For every usability expert, there are dozens of lynch mobs who use their computers the 'wrong' way."
[10:27] <sivang> infinity: lol
[10:27] <pitti> dap
[10:27] <pitti> oops, sorry, EFOCUS
[10:28] <infinity> pitti: alias dap='dchroot -c dapper' ?
[10:28] <pitti> infinity: no, 'dap' as in the vim command
[10:28] <infinity> Oh. :)
[10:28] <seb128> bah, vim user
[10:28] <pygi> seb128: what's wrong with vim? :P
[10:28] <ajmitch> hi mpt
[10:28] <seb128> pygi: you have to learn weird command line 'dap' :p
[10:28] <grndslm> look it's a logical choice, i'd rather you move it for everybody else since you can and i can't...(a)ubuntu is primarily used on desktops, and (b)you only logout ONCE per session, whereas desktop users change their volume incessantly, and (c) you can throw the mouse at the calendar applet no matter where it is, and hit it first time....not so with the volume app
[10:28] <pitti> infinity: what you said is called 'dchdapper' for me :)
[10:28] <thom> it's not got a g at the front, so seb won't use it ;-)
[10:28] <seb128> s/line/like
[10:28] <pygi> seb128: heh :P
[10:29] <grndslm> anyway...i'm just saying think about it, not that it's right or wrong...but MAYBE it is right
[10:29] <pitti> seb128: 'd'elete 'a' 'paragraph'
[10:29] <grndslm> thanks for listening...
[10:29] <grndslm> i'm out
[10:29] <seb128> pitti: aaaahhhhh
[10:30] <pitti> seb128: ctrl+space, 10x cursor down, and ctrl+w takes much longer :)
[10:30] <pitti> seb128: (AFAIR the emacs commands)
[10:30] <seb128> pitti: /me uses click and dnd :p
[10:31] <infinity> I just lean on "d" until half the screen disappears.
[10:31] <infinity> Been using vi for well over a decade, and I swear I'm the most vi-illiterate person out there.
[10:31] <seb128> pitti: and the emacs way would be to set a mark and to delete between the mark and the cursor ;)
[10:31] <seb128> (which is what you described)
[10:32] <pitti> infinity: but using all the higher-level objects like paragraphs, brace/parens blocks, etc., that's where all the fun and efficiency comes in :)
[10:32] <thom> infinity: i'll fight you for it!
[10:34] <infinity> thom: No, really.  I win this one.
[10:35] <thom> heh
[10:35] <infinity> thom: :wq! (and variations), dd, x, i, a, (linenum)G, / ... I think I've exhausted everything I know about vi right there.
[10:36] <pitti> you guys should try stuff like !3apsort ;)
[10:36] <thom> infinity: right, you win
[10:36] <infinity> thom: I may have a few more wired to muscle memory that I don't actually *think* about, but really, that's about it.
[10:37] <infinity> And I've certainly never used !3apsort
[10:37] <infinity> (!!)
[10:37] <pitti> (pipe the next three paragraphs through the 'sort' shell command)
[10:38] <seb128> who is that guy?
[10:39] <pygi> seb128: richard :P
[10:39] <pygi> seb128: just +b him for some time
[10:39] <pitti> lol
[10:39] <pygi> pitti: ^_^
[10:40] <pitti> "Scotty, our officer can't quite materialize on our end"
[10:40] <pygi> pitti: disagreed. Temporal fluctuations :P
[03:20] <robertj> Daniel Stone should get two cookies, one for fixing something old and busted, another for making xorg.conf shorter
[03:21] <Keybuk> hmm?
[03:21] <robertj> http://www.fooishbar.org/blog/tech/x/input-hotplug-2006-11-02-15-19.html
[03:21] <Keybuk> can we have *no* xorg.conf? :)
[03:22] <robertj> Keybuk: I had a fantasy about that
[03:22] <robertj> well it wasn't that it was not there, just that it was empty
[03:22] <Keybuk> oh, cool, input hotplug
[03:22] <fabbione> Keybuk: 7.2 or 7.3 will allow that
[03:22] <Keybuk> I want keith's work on driver hotplug too
[03:22] <robertj> I better get to making cookies
[03:22] <robertj> or yall better contract that out or something
[03:22] <Whoopie>  when is the edgy-commercial repository filled with the packages in dapper-commercial? any roadmap?
[05:58] <mog> hello
[05:58] <mog> i came here to ask why the decision to use dash as apposed to bash for sh
[05:59] <mog> it seems to have broken several projects makefiles, and shell scripts
[05:59] <ogra> no
[05:59] <ogra> if these scripts dont work *they* are broken
[05:59] <mog> ugh
[05:59] <mog> no
[05:59] <ogra> (broken == not POSIX compliant in this case)
[05:59] <mog> that is fine
[06:00] <mog> but what was the intention of purposefully breaking compatibility
[06:00] <ogra> not if they use !#/bin/sh as shebang
[06:00] <ogra> using that your scripts must be POSIX compliant
[06:00] <mog> no they still break
[06:00] <mog> as sh used to point to bash
[06:00] <ogra> if you use bash specific code, use !#/bin/bash
[06:00] <mog> now it points to inferior dash
[06:00] <mog> and doesnt work
[06:01] <cjwatson> you'll find that your scripts will break on many other (non-Linux) systems if they break with dash
[06:01] <mog> well if im not mistaken these scripts work with sh, just not dahs
[06:01] <mog> er dash
[06:01] <cjwatson> mog: what exactly breaks?
[06:01] <cjwatson> I've run into one POSIX-compatibility bug in dash ever, and it was quite a corner case
[06:02] <cjwatson> the decision was largely made for speed, but there was a certain amount of desire to eradicate the utter pest of bashisms in allegedly /bin/sh scripts too ...
[06:17] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/launchpadassignedtome.user.js
[06:17] <Keybuk> ^ anyone coming to MTV with specs, and who uses Firefox, might want that (install the Greasemonkey addon)
[06:22] <sladen> mog: it's like speaking American English to a Britsh English speaker;  it might /look/ the same, but in certain cases it's not compliant with a copy of the Oxford English dictionary.
[06:22] <sladen> s/the same/similar/
[06:25] <dholbach> tfheen: It'll be a discussion about a REVU-like service.
[06:25] <tfheen> dholbach: who is going to actually do the code reviews?
[06:26] <ogra> dholbach, what about REVU2.0 did that ever get started ?
[06:26] <dholbach> tfheen: which will not only serve the REVU use case, but speed up general review as well
[06:26] <dholbach> tfheen: that's something we'll discuss there as well I hope
[06:26] <dholbach> ogra: it never got started
[06:26] <ogra> i think the spec already covered that usecase
[06:26] <tfheen> dholbach: ah, ok.   So it's kinda-ish-revu2?
[06:26] <ogra> gah
[06:26] <dholbach> tfheen: Mark registered it, I'm sure he has some clever ideas about it
[06:26] <Keybuk> sladen: the OED is frequently wrong also
[06:26] <Keybuk> I prefer the Collins
[06:27] <dholbach> tfheen, ogra: I'd love to see somtehing with bzr intregration
[06:27] <ogra> ++
[06:27] <Keybuk> notably the OED thinks that "-ize" is a valid suffix for a word
[06:27] <tfheen> dholbach: it's the clever ideas which scare me. :-)
[06:27] <tfheen> s/which/that/
[06:27] <dholbach> we'll all be fine
[06:31] <pitti> Mez: Seveas already has a pastebin script (exactly as you want it) for paste.ubuntu.nl
[06:31] <KhanReaper> Hello, I have some questions about automated preseeding with Edgy and the expert recipe. So, I have followed the instructions in the Edgy appendix on disk partitioning, but the installer still brings up a prompt on partitioning the disks, asking whether I want to erase disk, use LVM, or perform custom partitioning. I've successfully automated preseeding before with Breezy and Dapper, and I've even consulted with those preseed files to see if I am
[06:32] <KhanReaper> I've looked through the sources of some of the udebs, and nothing obvious appears.  I didnt know ;)
[06:32] <Mez> pitti - though I was thinking more an apt-gettable script so we can use it in helping users
[06:33] <pitti> downloading from somewhere will do fine, too, I guess
[06:33] <KhanReaper> If there is a pastebin area, I would be glad to  include a few excerpts from the isolinux.cfg and my presed file.
[06:33] <Mez> pitti, but then we have to tell them where to download it from, where to put it, how to call it
[06:34] <Mez> pitti: but then how hard would it be to create a package to go into universe...
[06:34] <cjwatson> KhanReaper: will talk with you after the meeting that's on right now
[06:34] <pitti> Mez: right, but packaging it would require it to never change in years
[06:34] <Mez> I'll speak to Seveas see what he thinks
[06:34] <Mez> pitti, why ?
[06:34] <pitti> Mez: if it's in a stable release
[06:34] <tfheen> pitti: -updates? :-)
[06:35] <Mez> tfheen, -backports
[06:35] <tfheen> Mez: actually, -updates if the current version wouldn't work any more.
[06:35] <Mez> pitti: I'm thinking more of a universe thing for now ;)
[06:35] <pitti> tfheen: our current SRU is painful enough to not make me want to do it :)
[06:35] <Mez> possibly to be included at some point in the future in main ... but once people get used to it
[06:36] <Mez> pitti, how often do pastebins change their code ?
[06:36] <pitti> Mez: the one for paste.ubuntu.nl recently stopped working
[06:36] <pitti> (for me at least)
[06:36] <Mez> pitti: another reason to set up a proper ubuntu pastebin ;)
[06:37] <Mez> pitti: you have to admit, it'd be useful for a dev to be able to say "yeah, run this command" and then goto a webserver and get the paste info they need
[06:37] <pitti> Mez: yes, I didn't argue that
[06:38] <pitti> if we get something packaged, that should be fine
[06:38] <Mez> pitti: actually come to think of it, if you had the pastebin on some ubuntu server - you could make it even more useful - by being able to import to bug reports from a pastebin
[06:39] <Mez> pitti: do you think it would be possible to get an "official" (in the loosest sense of the word) ubuntu pastebin ?
[06:40] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: ... what you think is freestandards.org. You know that DNS can be spoofed, right?
[06:40] <pitti> Mez: hmm, paste.ubuntu.nl got quite famous; it's Seveas' call, of course
[06:40] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: so I'd like some security-minded folks in on the discussion to make sure it's sane
[06:40] <Mez> pitti: I agree, but I (and a lot of other people) tend to use rafb.net ;) and other places...
[06:41] <Mez> different people tell people to ue different pastebins ;) it'd be nice to have one main one
[06:41] <pitti> right
[06:41] <Mez> pitti: I think it's an idea that could be discussed further
[06:42] <pitti> Mez: I agree
[06:42] <Mez> I'll reply to my post with a little summary of what we've just chatted over
[06:46] <Mez> pitti: do you know anything about this "upstream" thing ?
[06:46] <pitti> Mez: the 'upstream thing'... -v ?
[06:47] <Mez> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Upstream
[06:48] <elmo> that is the most ridiculous name EVER
[06:48] <Mez> elmo, indeed ...
[06:49] <Mez> elmo / pitti, but it's a good concept
[06:54] <Mez> lol - and the guy we want to talk to quits
[06:59] <Mez> isnt there now an ubuntu crash-handler -> bug reporter ?
[07:00] <Treenaks> Mez: apport#
[07:00] <Treenaks> minus the #
[07:00] <Mez> thats the one
[07:00] <Mez> apport/crashdump
[07:02] <Mez> Treenaks, can you find me an example of an apport log (or tell me where I might find it)
[07:02] <Mez> pitti, ping me when you're back please
[07:02] <Treenaks> Mez: /var/crash I guess
[07:02] <Mez> Treenaks, it's not installed on my system
[07:03] <Treenaks> ah
[07:04] <Mez> kubuntu doesnt use it apparently
[07:04] <Riddell> Mez: correct
[07:04] <Mez> Riddell, would something like apport/crashdump be somehting we could consider for kubuntu ?
[07:05] <Mez> I know we have the "KDE crash handler"
[07:05] <Mez> but tbh... thats never really done anything except tell me something segfaulted and it cant find more info
[07:06] <Riddell> Mez: install gdb and it gets the stacktrace fine for me
[07:06] <Chipzz> tfheen: still here?
[07:06] <Mez> Riddell, usually with "No debugging symbols found"
[07:14] <cjwatson> KhanReaper: here
[07:32] <_ion> chipzz: Couldn't you reconnect?
[07:39] <tfheen> Chipzz: yes
[07:44] <pitti> Mez: pong (*rubbing my belly*, hmmm)
[07:44] <AlinuxSOS> pitti, good evening ;)
[07:44] <pitti> Hi AlinuxSOS
[07:45] <AlinuxOS> looolz why sos...my ISP is killing my net every 20 minutes... :(
[07:45] <Mez> pitti, have a read of my post to -devel first ;)
[07:46] <Mez> and let me know what you think
[07:46] <pitti> willdo
[07:48] <pitti> bug 69905 -- oh dear, the first feisty bug
[07:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 69905 in gs-esp "gs segfaults on feisty" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69905
[07:49] <pitti> *we didn't even bootstrap yet*  hrmpf
[07:49] <Mez> and elmo, you'll be happy I made a new name - gigt ;)
[07:51] <ajmitch> morning
[07:51] <Mez> :)
[07:51] <ajmitch> hey pitti, how's it going?
[07:52] <pitti> ajmitch: pretty well, thanks
[07:52] <pitti> ajmitch: will you come to USD by any chance?
[07:53] <ajmitch> yeah
[07:53] <pitti> Mez: what's that?
[07:54] <Mez> Its something you use for signing things if you havent got gpg
[07:54] <pitti> weird
[07:54] <Mez> things like cheques
[07:54] <Mez> lol
[07:55] <sladen> BACS has thankfully mostly replaced the need to do that.
[07:55] <tfheen> what's a cheque?
[07:55] <sladen> ...and charging people an extra 20.00 GBP to receiving a cheque mostly deals with the rest
[07:56] <sladen> tfheen: the generic instance of a bank note
[08:02] <Treenaks> sladen: ah! bank notes are objects of class cheque? :)
[08:03] <Mez> Bank_Note extends Cheque
[08:04] <Treenaks> I haven't seen them in use for more than 10 years here..
[08:05] <Mez> bank notes?
[08:05] <Treenaks> cheques
[08:05] <Mez> they're quite common over here in the UK
[08:05] <_ion> I've never seen one.
[08:06] <Mez> _ion, you've probably had jobs where they have a working BACS system
[08:07] <bhale> really most everything
[08:08] <LaserJock> I do too
[08:08] <bhale> takeaway?
[08:08] <LaserJock> bhale: except fast food for me
[08:08] <Mez> pizza, curry etc etc
[08:08] <bhale> LaserJock: fast food here takes debit
[08:08] <Mez> (home delivery)
[08:08] <LaserJock> bhale: how nice :-)
[08:08] <bhale> LaserJock: i happen to work on it, too
[08:08] <tepsipakki> debit card uses your bank account directly?
[08:09] <bhale> debit over ssl internet for mcdonalds etc
[08:09] <LaserJock> interesting
[08:09] <bhale> tepsipakki: yes
[08:09] <Mez> It's just a pain in the ass.... and my work etc etc
[08:09] <tepsipakki> strange terminology :)
[08:10] <tepsipakki> for me..
[08:10] <bhale> debit: The process of subtracting from the balance of an account.
[08:11] <bhale> credit would be the stranger term in a literal sense
[08:11] <tepsipakki> yeah, I have a combination of a bank card & visa
[08:12] <tepsipakki> visa is great when you travel, but dangerous otherwise :)
[08:19] <Amaranth> visa is dangerous always
[08:19] <Amaranth> not having checks is a real PITA when you need your routing number :)
[08:20] <Treenaks> Amaranth: routing number?
[08:21] <Amaranth> paypal, for instance, needs your routing number and checking account number
[08:21] <Amaranth> i don't know what it's for
[08:21] <Amaranth> but it's on the bottom of a check
[08:21] <bhale> for routing money from one bank account to another.
[08:21] <bhale> as it implies
[08:22] <Treenaks> Amaranth: In .nl, all you'll ever need is your bank accuont number... and all banks use the same number system (except for one, but everyone knows that that one is special)
[08:22] <Treenaks> First 2 numbers indicate the bank
[08:22] <sladen> welcome to IBAN.  Unified account namespace
[08:22] <Treenaks> (of the account number)
[08:23] <Treenaks> sladen: IBAN is nice, but IBANs are _huge_ compared to 9-digit numbers
[08:23] <sladen> GB has  BB-BB-BB NNNNNNNN
[08:24] <Treenaks> sladen: NL has (\d{9,10}|P\d+)
[08:25] <Treenaks> (10-digit accounts are savings accounts)
[08:42] <pitti> hm, what's wrong with the buildds? all are idle, and the new glibc needs build
[08:43] <jbailey> pitti: I think they're all still in manual mode for bootstrapping.
[08:43] <pitti> jbailey: hmm, AFAIK infinity intended to have this built...
[08:43] <jbailey> pitti: Dunno for certain.  I know he accepted it, but I don't know if he stopped things to test the new gcc is the chroots or something.
[08:44] <Mez> pitti: so your thoughts are ?
[10:13] <voraistos> hello people. i am not a dev, and not requesting support, but did anybody see any kernel related problem on edgy? I keep breaking my system watching movies (xvid + ogg in OGM) and listening to music (ogg) i cant understand i keep getting kernel panic, syslog mail, and now system hardlock on boot... I dont want to reinstall it a third time... should i use a vanilla kernel or go back to dapper ?
[10:31] <ubitux> hi
[10:32] <ubitux> oups


[09:33] <abelli> sup yo!
[09:34] <abelli> enrico: is there any kind of digital documentation in warty's image?
[09:36] <enrico> abelli: hi
[09:36] <enrico> abelli: you mean all of the /usr/share/doc?
[09:36] <abelli> enrico: no, sorry, ive been a little cryptic, is there any guide in there?
[09:37] <abelli> i humbly dont think so but i just wanted to query the Oracle (you)
[09:38] <enrico> abelli: uhm, don't know :)
[09:39] <enrico> Have a tour of the package list, see the -doc packages, grep for guide
[09:39] <enrico> there could be a gnome user's guide in there
[09:40] <sivang> enrico: hey! :)
[09:40] <sivang> enrico: what's up?
[09:41] <abelli> sivang: thank you.... :'(
[09:41] <sivang> abelli: what?
[09:41] <abelli> you're pleasing the Power
[09:41] <sivang> abelli: what did I do ? (o.o)
[09:41] <abelli> no words for me..


[13:54] <wangel> Hello all.  Where can I find old iso images of mythbuntu?  It seems 14.04.01 doesn't work for me... actually, it appears to be bugs related to the kernel =(
[15:04] <tgm4883> wangel: there is a historical downloads section on the downloads page on our website


[06:18] <bullgard4> I wonder what Linux kernel file defines the kernel process bdi-default? I am using Linux kernel version 3.2.
[17:40] <[[asimov]]> Are the kernels built from new software or built from previous systems?
[17:40] <[[asimov]]> So is the compiler built fresh or is it built on the last releases system?
[17:42] <[[asimov]]> apw
[17:50] <[[asimov]]> apw:
[17:51] <[[asimov]]> The bugs can carry over if it is built on the same system that has the bugs.
[17:58] <[[asimov]]> apw: 10:02:10 PM - [[asimov]]: Are the kernels built from new software or built from previous systems? So is the compiler built fresh or is it built on the last releases system? The bugs can carry over if it is built on the same system that has the bugs.
[18:03] <[[asimov]]> no response?


[01:27] <Wyglif> i have a situation in witch i need to set up a linux server with samba support ... i use gentoo for a long time and now using ubuntu ... i like beacuse of it simplicity ... i read the site about ubuntu server ... but the main reason i'm writing this is that there is no info about setting up a file server on the site
[01:27] <Wyglif> i know how to configure it
[01:28] <Wyglif> and all that stuff
[01:28] <Wyglif> but it this distro good way to solve my problem
[10:50] <Pyretic> kinda quiet in here
[10:50] <mralphabet> it generally is


[00:06] <yofel> ...
[00:06] <yofel> ???
[00:31] <ahoneybun> some more green today
[00:32] <yofel> just fixes for the mess I just made
[00:32] <yofel> but not it should be quiet - I hope
[00:33] <yofel> *now
[00:45] <yofel> I think we need another semaphore around dput...
[00:48]  * clivejo cries
[00:49] <yofel> it'll get a lot more red
[00:50] <clivejo> I dont like red
[00:50] <yofel> funny enough, swy-01 is so slow, that it never hits the concurrency issue with dput
[00:51] <yofel> lets see if I can figure out another DRB wrapper
[02:11] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: odd schedule, my time zone is CDT and it's 9:11 PM right now
[02:14] <ahoneybun> heyo tsimonq2
[02:24] <tsimonq2> how are you ahoneybun?
[02:24] <ahoneybun> fine, you?
[02:28] <tsimonq2> great ahoneybun :)
[02:29] <ahoneybun> how's the 16.10 alpha for lubuntu?
[02:30] <tsimonq2> great :)
 yofel your pushing that servers CPU over 90%
[05:32] <ahoneybun> clivejo: you said something about trojita right?
[06:31] <ahoneybun> !info
[06:31] <ahoneybun> !support
[06:45] <ahoneybun> oh you built it for yakkety...
[06:45] <ahoneybun> I need a xenial as I can't get gpg to work
[07:15] <blaze> ahoneybun: what's wrong and how to reproduce?
[07:47] <blaze> google doesn't tell me anything about gpg issues on YY
[07:52] <acheronuk> blaze: they were talking about trojita email client I think?
[08:00] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: ping
[08:00] <acheronuk> morning (or middle of the night)
[08:01] <tsimonq2> hey, can you help me figure out what is wrong with plasma-discover ?
[08:01] <tsimonq2> I have both the apps and plasma staging PPAs enabled
[08:02] <acheronuk> wrong in what sense? won't install?
[08:02] <tsimonq2>  plasma-discover : Depends: packagekit (>= 1.0)
[08:02] <tsimonq2>                    Recommends: software-properties-kde but it is not going to be installed
[08:02] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: ^
[08:02] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: yeah, won't install
[08:03] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: what's up with packagekit?
[08:03] <acheronuk> packagekit 1.2? I think is stuck in 'proposed' for YY
[08:04] <tsimonq2> well that needs to be solved, otherwise with those PPAs, lubuntu-qt-desktop is not installable :(
[08:04] <acheronuk> actually 1.1.1
[08:04] <acheronuk> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/packagekit
[08:05] <acheronuk> it was being talked about the other day. have to check the IRC logs as I can't recall if anything was to be done
[08:06] <tsimonq2> trying: packagekit
[08:06] <tsimonq2> skipped: packagekit (0, 43, 8) got: 291+0: a-168:a-16:a-17:i-18:p-22:p-17:s-33
[08:06] <tsimonq2> it breaks a loooooot of packages...
[08:07] <acheronuk> https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/07/26/%23kubuntu-devel.html
[08:10] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: playing with it in a VM now
[08:10] <tsimonq2> I'll try upgrading it and seeing what it breaks
[08:19] <acheronuk> python3-aptdaemon depends gir1.2-packagekitglib-1.0 (<< 0.9)
[08:20] <acheronuk> so 1.1 would break that, and in turn aptdaemon itself
[08:24] <tsimonq2> yeah just figured that out acheronuk
[08:24] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: so is that the only package broken you think?
[08:27] <acheronuk> not sure, but I guess breaking apt-daemon is a source of most of the other breakage that would result, if not all
[08:27] <tsimonq2> yeah
[08:27] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: do you think just bumping the dep would fix it?
[08:28] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: it should, because it's already in Debian :D
[08:28] <tsimonq2> (packagekit is)
[08:29] <acheronuk> I don't know enough about apt-daemon to say what effect a much newer packagekit would have on it
[08:30] <acheronuk> the << 0.9 was clearly there for a reason. whether that reason still holds, I can't say
[08:30] <tsimonq2> yeah
[08:33] <acheronuk> LP bug: 1496292
[08:39] <tsimonq2> hey, there we go, that's the issue I think!
[08:40] <acheronuk> yep, when aptdaemon 1.1.1+bzr982-0ubuntu15 gets out of 'proposed' itself, that 'should' sort it
[08:40] <tsimonq2> alright, time to look at that now :)
[08:41] <acheronuk> Depends on gir1.2-packagekitglib-1.0 (>= 1.1.1) now, to enforce using
[08:41] <acheronuk>       PackageKit 1.1; which drops GET_DEPENDS and GET_REQUIRES.
[08:41] <acheronuk> yes
[08:44] <acheronuk> oh, last few comments on that bug suggest a few things need rebuilding for the new packagekit itself
[08:44] <acheronuk> but seems people are on it :)
[08:47] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: it's been a month, maybe I should poke someone about it? :)
[08:51] <acheronuk> ah. getting my month wrong!
[08:53] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: so what do you suggest? :)
[08:54] <acheronuk> WWYD?
[08:55] <acheronuk> hi soee
[08:55] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: huh?
[08:56] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: oh, you haven't seen that. short for "What Would Yofl Do"
[08:56] <soee> hiho
[08:57] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: XD
[08:57] <tsimonq2> I don't know him well enought :P
[08:57] <tsimonq2> *ehough
[08:57] <tsimonq2> **enough
[08:57] <tsimonq2> grr
[09:01] <soee> Yofl ?
[09:01] <tsimonq2> soee: y o f e l
[09:02] <soee> ah right as it is some family to Yoda
[09:03] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: well what WOULD he do?
[09:04] <soee> he woudl YODLE!
[09:04] <soee> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQhqikWnQCU
[09:06] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: a few days ago on those logs he said he would "look over it". assuming that reply was about this
[09:06] <tsimonq2> yofel: could you please take a look at bug 1496292 ?
[09:06]  * tsimonq2 runs
[09:06] <acheronuk> so I would see later whether he got a chance
[09:06] <tsimonq2> alright :)
[09:07] <tsimonq2> speaking of that, I'm off to bed, o/
[09:08] <acheronuk> night then, or morning, or whatever the hll :P
[09:23] <yofel> ahoneybun: linode? yes. I'm trying to impose some CPU limits on it, but live updating didn't work so I need to try that when the node is offline
[09:24] <yofel> 07:27:56 make: *** Cannot allocate memory.  Stop.
[09:25] <yofel> hm, updating docker did not help
[09:35] <yofel> ok, linode can now only use 1 cpu
[09:35] <yofel> that should throttle it a bit
[10:25] <soee> uhm
[10:49] <soee> yofel: did you used KDevelop ?
[10:49] <yofel> I did, but haven't used it in a long time
[10:50] <soee> is it good for creating plasoimds ?
[10:50] <yofel> no idea -> #kdevelop
[10:50] <soee> also i tried to click on New project button and it does nothing:/
[10:50] <yofel> our kdevelop version is more than a bit outdated though
[10:53] <yofel> sitter: can I somhow access the toplevel Launchpad API collections through Rubber? I'm trying to figure out a ruby equivalent for lp.git_repositories.getRepositories(target=lp.projects['kubuntu-packaging'])
[10:54] <soee> bah another issue
[10:54] <soee> this seems to make my New project button work https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=218&t=130501
[10:55] <yofel> ah yeah, as I said, our kdevelop is outdated
[10:56] <soee> !info kdevelop | xenial
[10:56] <soee> isn't it latest stable ?
[10:56] <yofel> it is, but it's qt4, you want to qt5 version for the apptemplates to work fine
[10:56] <yofel> *want the
[11:15] <soee> rofl :D
[11:15] <soee> http://i.imgur.com/Ef7Nl62.png
[11:15] <yofel> heh
[11:20] <acheronuk> daily builds of qt5 kdevelop in a someones ppa? https://launchpad.net/~blaze/+archive/ubuntu/kf5
[11:21] <acheronuk> I had that enabled on Xenial before I upgraded, but never go round to actually trying it.
[11:21] <acheronuk> *got around
[11:22] <soee> :)
[11:23] <yofel> on my desktop, quassel gives Rik the same highlight color that it gives aaron on my notebook, and as both nicks start with a, my mind constantly tries to read Rik's messages as aaron's
[11:23] <yofel> aaaaaargh
[11:24] <clivejo> yofel: can I disable autotests for - https://launchpadlibrarian.net/275736185/buildlog_ubuntu-yakkety-amd64.kross-interpreters_4%3A16.04.3+p16.10+git20160729.2156-0_BUILDING.txt.gz
[11:24] <clivejo> seems they still dont want to work even with fake frame buffer
[11:25] <clivejo> acheronuk: any progress on marble?
[11:25] <yofel> to me that reads like kross is actually broken?
[11:25] <yofel> it shouldn't even need X
[11:25] <acheronuk> clivejo: not got back to it today yet. I plan to late afternoon
[11:26]  * clivejo has no idea what kross is and why it needs interpreting
[11:27]  * acheronuk was surprised palapeli is a jigsaw puzzle
[11:28] <yofel> clivejo: belongs to the other language bindings stack
[11:31]  * clivejo wishes KDE software was more descriptively named
[11:31] <yofel> where's the fun in that? :P
[11:31] <clivejo> whats wrong with kjigsaw ?
[11:32] <yofel> dunno, wasn't the developers preference?
[11:32] <clivejo> I dont like having to go hunt for apps
[11:33] <clivejo> is it any wonder noone knows about them!
[11:33] <yofel> well that's what package descriptions are for...
[11:33] <yofel> and categories to some extent
[11:33] <clivejo> and even if I knew what it was and wanted it, I can bearly spell it!
[11:34] <clivejo> not good having to go ask google for names of apps you want
[11:38] <soee> hmm: X-KDE-PluginInfo-Name=org.kde.tutorial
[11:38] <soee> what valud shoudl be set for kubuntu related plugins/plasmoids ?
[11:40] <yofel> org.kubuntu.something I guess?
[11:48] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[11:49] <clivejo> Granatier is a clone of the classic Bomberman game, inspired by the work of the Clanbomber clone.
[11:49] <clivejo> nice to know
[12:35] <soee> http://i.imgur.com/uz9P9Hs.png
[12:35]  * soee wonders if it is possible to grab system version automatically
[12:55] <soee> http://i.imgur.com/tiWUz35.png
[12:59] <blaze> soee: kdevelop5 is pretty stable now, almost ready for release
[14:04] <clivejo> soee: are you making an installer?
[14:04] <clivejo> or welcome screen for first login?
[14:05] <acheronuk> eek. wall of PIM red!
[14:06] <soee> clivejo: some attempt  to create simple slideshow/welcome screen as a widget
[14:06] <clivejo> acheronuk: mostly all PIM stuff now
[14:07] <clivejo> wish could get cantor out of the way
[14:07] <acheronuk> yep, running out of other stuff to fix!
[14:07] <clivejo> hint hint, nudge nudge, kick up the backside!
[14:08] <acheronuk> I think Simon is preoccupied with QtWebEngine and it dep
[14:08] <clivejo> what is the story with libindi-dev?
[14:08] <clivejo> for kstars
[14:08] <acheronuk> Still in proposed?
[14:09] <acheronuk> I saw v 1.2 stick there, but hoped it would migrate
[14:09] <clivejo> could we maybe do a test build of the version in proposed and put it in unstable?
[14:10]  * clivejo wonders if unstable has proposed enabled
[14:10] <acheronuk> I can't see why not, but better check.....
[14:10] <acheronuk> it didn't the others day, hence kstars failed again
[14:11] <acheronuk> I didn't realise, so it was a bit wtf? when it failed
[14:12] <clivejo> !info libindi-dev
[14:12] <clivejo> whatever that is
[14:21] <clivejo> maybe those PIM packages could be disabled and the list used to plan what we are holding back from Apps 16.08
[14:27] <clivejo> acheronuk: do you have kstars locally?
[14:28] <clivejo> if you do can you bump libindi-dev (>= 1.2~),
[14:32] <acheronuk> done I think
[14:35] <soee> do you gusy have any proposition what should be on welcome slides?
[14:40] <clivejo> soee: Id like to see something like that other flavour
[14:42] <clivejo> there was a discussion in here about it, but not I cant remember the name of it!
[14:44] <acheronuk> hmmm... I'm putting most of my marble changes in 1 commit. should I have staggered them?
[14:46] <clivejo> in Debian yes you probably should, in Kubuntu Id just use one commit
[14:49] <acheronuk> OK. this builds locally, so......
[14:49] <clivejo> what builds locally?
[14:49] <acheronuk> marble
[14:49] <clivejo> oh cool
[14:50] <acheronuk> will need some lintian overides and a few other things changing still.
[14:51]  * acheronuk waits for that to crash and burn!
[14:56]  * clivejo goes to do another hour or so of power washing now his hands have stopped vibrating
[14:57] <clivejo> kdeconnect is at version 1.0
[14:57] <clivejo> about time too!
[14:57] <clivejo> thought we would have a 0.9.90
[14:58] <acheronuk> I keep trying it every so ofetn, but somehow always end up giving up on it as not quite worth it
[16:09] <santa_> yofel, clivejo: in addition to my plans for the build depend bumping system we discussed I also found other flaw which I would like to fix, but it will take some time
[16:10] <santa_> from kconfigwidgets debian/control:
[16:11] <santa_> https://paste.kde.org/phuq1fwvm
[16:11] <santa_> ↑ these version should be bumped too
[16:11] <santa_> but the current stuff doesn't
[16:17] <soee> http://i.imgur.com/CLMSoVp.png
[16:32] <acheronuk> whooooo! a whole 1 package migrated -> breeze-icon-theme (4:5.24.0-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.10~ppa1 => 4:5.24.0-0ubuntu1)
[16:36] <soee> what ya doin' maaan  ? :)
[16:45] <soee> http://i.imgur.com/NoFTlyA.png
[16:46] <ahoneybun> what is that?
[16:47] <soee> ahoneybun: im testing how welcom screen/slideshow will work as a Plasma widget
[16:47] <ahoneybun> mm
[16:48] <soee> the main purpose is to have one slide where user will have backports ppa explained and option to add it automaticaaly to his system
[16:48] <ahoneybun> so a welcome screen nice
[16:50] <ahoneybun> is that hosted anywhere yet soee?
[16:51] <soee> ahoneybun: no, i'm working on it on my laptop. Need to learn a bit qtquick
[16:56] <ahoneybun> kj
[17:13] <jimarvan> hello! :)
[17:22] <soee> hiho
[17:39] <jimarvan> quiet today :D
[19:04] <tsimonq2> o/
[19:04] <tsimonq2> I'll be around for a couple mins
[19:05] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: in that case, on snaps: http://paste.ubuntu.com/21546329/
[19:05] <acheronuk> wtf?
[19:06] <tsimonq2> wtf?
[19:06] <tsimonq2> so you are running a snap?
[19:06] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: ask on #snappy
[19:07] <acheronuk> I have. no answer yet
[19:07] <acheronuk> and you popped your head up! ;)
[19:07] <acheronuk> I'll work it out
[19:33] <clivejo> soee: ping
[19:34] <soee> clivejo: sup?
[19:34] <clivejo> https://bitbucket.org/ubuntu-mate/ubuntu-mate-welcome
[19:34] <clivejo> thats the welcome screen I was talking about earlier
[19:36] <clivejo> http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/ubuntu-mate-16-04-launches-as-the-first-ever-lts-release-here-s-what-s-new-503262-7.jpg
[19:36] <soee> yup but i would liek to have it done in qtquick
[19:37] <soee> http://i.imgur.com/X07nxqv.png
[19:52] <blaze> launchpad ate my package :O
[19:53] <blaze> no rejection message, nothing
[19:53] <clivejo> it killed my kittens too
[19:54] <acheronuk> blaze: I've have had that happen a few times
[19:54] <clivejo> acheronuk: fancy doing the symbols on okteta
[19:54] <clivejo> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/275756159/buildlog_ubuntu-yakkety-amd64.okteta_4%3A16.04.3+p16.10+git20160730.0041-0_BUILDING.txt.gz
[19:55] <acheronuk> I looked at those, then slowly backed away....
[19:56] <tsimonq2> clivejo: I'm trying to knock some sense into cantor
[19:56]  * acheronuk gives up on snappy
[19:58] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: are you succeeding?
[19:59] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: well turns out the libraries it was complaining about in dh_install were actually already included in cantor-dev.install
[19:59] <tsimonq2> MERGE FAILURE
[19:59] <tsimonq2> on it!
[20:00] <tsimonq2> grr seems like it's an internal erorr
[20:00] <tsimonq2> *error
[20:00] <clivejo> nah, leave that one!
[20:00] <tsimonq2> alright
[20:00]  * tsimonq2 steps away and lets clivejo get it
[20:00] <clivejo> its still looking on debian
[20:01] <clivejo> needs moved to LP
[20:07] <tsimonq2> I'm off for now, but I'm close with cantor
[20:07] <tsimonq2> o/
[20:15] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: ok
[21:21] <acheronuk> No wonder marble rarely builds. That's twice in the last 24hs that it's had code changes resulting in new or missing symbols. You fix it, and by the time you do it's already broken again!
[21:22]  * clivejo nods knowingly
[21:31] <soee> http://www.gifbin.com/bin/032010/1269602901_no-no-no.gif
[21:45] <soee> http://i.imgur.com/i5LNZnj.png
[21:52] <clivejo> whats the red and black mess in the top left
[22:05] <clivejo> holy moly
[22:05] <clivejo> more missing symbols#
[22:06] <acheronuk> What???????????
[22:07] <acheronuk> https://quickgit.kde.org/?p=marble.git&a=commit&h=b5dc725832839986048f64ced12c6491cdb954a1
[22:07] <acheronuk> Honestly, I'm going to work out when that guy sleeps, and fix it THEN!
[22:10]  * clivejo giggles
[22:10] <acheronuk> It's symbol slaughter in that commit!
[22:12] <clivejo> sounds like an interesting hobby
[22:12] <clivejo> I might become a symbols slaughterer
[22:13] <acheronuk> I'm leaving that alone tonight now
[22:13] <clivejo> has anyone tried a wayland session in YY?
[22:13] <acheronuk> not yet
[22:15]  * clivejo wonders how you do it
[22:15] <santa_> hmm
[22:19] <santa_>  grep-aptavail -FDepends libmarblewidget-qt5-23 | grep ^Package | sort -u
[22:19] <santa_> Package: libmarble-dev
[22:19] <santa_> Package: marble
[22:19] <santa_> Package: marble-plugins
[22:19] <santa_> Package: marble-qt
[22:19] <DarinMiller> I tried wayland in YY on my laptop.  Touchpad does not work very well.
[22:19] <santa_> SRLSY
[22:20] <clivejo> DarinMiller: how to you switch over?
[22:20] <santa_> clivejo, acheronuk: am I mistaken or ... nothing but marble uses that library?
[22:20] <DarinMiller> Install the wayland components, logout and use the session selector to switch to wayland.
[22:20] <clivejo> got a how to?
[22:21] <acheronuk> It's just an alternate session is it not?
[22:21] <acheronuk> and things either work or are broken?
[22:21] <DarinMiller> No.  I used a package manager to find  the wayland compoents.  Just a sec I will grab my laptop and let you know what they are...
[22:22] <DarinMiller> Yes, alternate session.
[22:22] <clivejo> santa_: libkgeomap needs libmarble-dev
[22:22] <DarinMiller> I attempted on my intel video only box...
[22:22] <clivejo> sudo apt install plasma-workspace-wayland
[22:23] <DarinMiller> that's one of them....
[22:23] <clivejo> that seems to pull the necessary components?
[22:23] <acheronuk> I assmed that one pulls in everything else needed?
[22:23] <acheronuk> snap
[22:24] <clivejo> The following additional packages will be installed:
[22:24] <clivejo>   kwin-wayland kwin-wayland-backend-drm xwayland
[22:24] <clivejo> gonna log out and try it
[22:25] <DarinMiller> I also installed qtwayland, wayland-protocols kwwin-wayland
[22:25] <DarinMiller> err. kaywayland-integration
[22:25]  * acheronuk waits to see if this breaks clivejos desktop
[22:26] <DarinMiller> NVidia proprietary installed?
[22:26] <santa_> clivejo: but libkgeomap wasn't skipped in kubuntu? I have no idea why by the way
 When yofel asked if you are evil, you soooo lied!
[22:28] <acheronuk> I said "only on Friday"
[22:28] <acheronuk> but maybe I meant Saturday...
[22:29] <DarinMiller> Wayland works much better with a mouse.  The tap to touch on the touchpad was not working when I tried it a few days ago...
[22:30]  * soee don understand how those plasmois icons work :<
[22:31] <DarinMiller> Wayland:  panel does not autohide  nor will windows cover...  useable but a lot of little paper cuts....
[22:31] <clivejo> nope, cant log in
[22:32]  * DarinMiller wishes he could help soee, but knows nothing about plasmoid icons...
[22:32]  * clivejo thinks hes got a kilo of sand in his hair
[22:32] <DarinMiller> clivejo: are you using nvidia proprietary drivers?
[22:32] <clivejo> yes
[22:33] <clivejo> it flashes up the NVidia logo and puts me back to the log in page
[22:33] <DarinMiller> can't do that yet....
[22:34] <acheronuk> where did you come from? ^^^^^^^^^^^^
[22:34]  * clivejo kicks marble
[22:35] <DarinMiller> I tried a couple months ago using Nvidia with nuveau? and could not login either.  Intel video cards work though....
[22:35] <clivejo> it retries automatically
[22:35] <clivejo> 3 times I think
[22:35] <acheronuk> oh.
[22:35] <acheronuk> I assumed it would not do that with an actual build failure, but fair enough
[22:36] <clivejo> it cant tell the difference between LP being a *beep* and a failed build
[22:38] <acheronuk> is that the LP API's fault?
[22:40] <yofel> it's a bloody workaround for all issues
[22:40] <yofel> API should not be much of a prolem anymore, there's a multi-retry-after-sleep around all API calls now, so unless LP is actually *down* for more than 5 minutes, that should not error out anymore
[22:41] <yofel> fetching from KDE is also properly throttled now, so that's good
[22:41] <clivejo> yofel: o/
[22:41] <yofel> the oddball memory allocation issues are still a problem, as is excessive dput concurrency
[22:41] <yofel> former I'm clueless about, latter needs a semaphore accessible from the containers
[22:42] <clivejo> the git sycamore, can it be disabled for other git repos?
[22:42] <yofel> why?
[22:42] <yofel> well, it operates on a per-host basis as far as I can see
[22:42] <clivejo> seems to be messing up with the libkolab repos
[22:42] <yofel> so it should only throttle kde and lp
[22:43] <clivejo> http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_libkolabxml/
[22:43] <yofel> or it messes up kolab because that's not configured...
[22:43] <clivejo> oh, it has to be configured?
[22:44] <yofel> not quite sure, but it has git.kde.org and git.launchpad.net in the code
[22:45] <yofel> right, it will error out on anything that's not on kde or launchpad
[22:46] <yofel> clivejo: https://git.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ci-admins/kubuntu-ci/+git/pangea-tooling/tree/git-monitor/git
[22:47] <yofel> I wonder if adding an 'other' option would make sense...
[22:47] <yofel> that would make it at least not fail
[22:55] <yofel> hm, why didn't that work..
[22:56] <yofel> oh, that's also wired in the semaphore
[22:56] <yofel> next try
[22:57] <yofel> :w
[22:57] <yofel> oops
[22:58] <yofel> clivejo: fixed
[22:58] <clivejo> how did you fix it?
[22:59] <yofel> added an :other symbol that's the default for all not configured hosts
[22:59] <yofel> meaning all random hosts are throttled through the same semaphore, but that's better than failing
[22:59] <clivejo> where did you add that?
[22:59] <yofel> let me commit it
[23:01] <yofel> clivejo: https://git.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ci-admins/kubuntu-ci/+git/pangea-tooling/commit/?id=fd331c220675e131aef86aaa1fc2a46738bbf57f
[23:01] <clivejo> I see it :)
[23:01] <yofel> now let me deploy that everywhere
[23:01] <clivejo> does KCI automatically pick that up?
[23:02] <yofel> no, auto-deploy is broken right now
[23:02] <yofel> and you can't even auto-deploy that, as the monitor service needs to be restarted on every host
[23:02] <yofel> jenkins can't do that
[23:05] <clivejo> that merger is on swy-01
[23:06] <clivejo> how did you move it to run on linode?
[23:06] <yofel> you don't. The scheduler does that
[23:07] <clivejo> oh
[23:07] <yofel> you *can* limit projects to certain slaves if you need to
[23:07] <yofel> some mgmt jobs are e.g. limited to master
[23:19] <clivejo> oh no!
[23:25] <yofel> 23:21:57 stderr: fatal: remote error: Repository '~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/+git/libkolabxml' not found. ? ^^
[23:25] <clivejo> yes, I accidently mirrored libkolab into it :(
[23:26] <yofel> lol
[23:26] <clivejo> so I deleted it and will copy it across again
[23:26] <clivejo> not funny :P
[23:28] <soee> http://i.imgur.com/5zKXz.gif


[17:14] <melonin_highsurf> hello how do i run the unity desktop with UNITY_NEKO=1 to see cats?
[19:13] <FrogCast> What happens to the project? Can we still contribute code or will someone have to fork it to somewhere?


[05:33] <mborzecki> morning
[06:50] <mborzecki> mvo: hey
[06:51] <mvo> hey mborzecki
[06:52] <mborzecki> mvo: an interesting bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/1890046
[06:52] <mup> Bug #1890046: Handle SOURCE_DATE_EPOCH for SquashFS <Snapcraft:Triaged> <snapd:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1890046>
[06:55] <mvo> mborzecki: uh, looking
[06:56] <mvo> mborzecki: hm, doing this for the snapd snap should be easy, core is a bit harder. i wonder if we should just sru squashfs-tools
[07:01] <pstolowski> morning
[07:02] <mborzecki> pstolowski: hey
[07:03] <mvo> good morning pstolowski
[07:03] <mborzecki> mvo: there's probably some concerns about the review-tools/store side of things?
[07:05] <mvo> mborzecki: yeah, probably something to talk to jamie about
[07:09] <mvo> mborzecki: hm, the bug report talks about reproducible builds, this is exactly what we want too I guess
[07:11] <mborzecki> mvo: right, common goals may make sru'ing squashfs-tools a bit easier ;)
[07:11] <mvo> :)
[07:12] <mborzecki> need to go and drop some paperwokr at my accountant
[08:17] <mborzecki> re
[08:39] <pedronis> mvo: pstolowski: hi, have we prepared backports for snap debug seeding stuff ?
[08:44] <pstolowski> pedronis: afaiu mvo was going to look at the commits yesterday so i haven't do anything about that. i'm happy to take this over if not started yet
[08:45] <pedronis> pstolowski: it seems like we need to add preseed code to all interfaces backends no?
[08:45] <mvo> pstolowski: I have not started yet, if you have capacity for this, that would be great
[08:45] <pstolowski> pedronis: nb, we may have an issue with udev though, see mattermost chat
[08:46] <pstolowski> pedronis: yep, udev backend
[08:46] <pedronis> pstolowski: yes, that's why my comment about interfaces backends
[08:46] <pedronis> pstolowski: well, we need to look at all backends and see which one can trigger external programs/services
[08:46] <pstolowski> pedronis: yes
[08:46] <pedronis> and see which one don't work in a chroot
[08:47] <pedronis> and see what to do
[08:47] <pstolowski> mvo, pedronis i've doctor appointment in 15, shouldn't take long, will be back on this afterwards
[08:47] <pedronis> ok
[08:48] <mvo> pstolowski: not super urgent, no worries. see you
[08:52]  * pstolowski bbiab
[08:59] <zyga> good morning
[08:59]  * zyga came to check if <IP_ADDRESS> built fine for suse
[09:05] <mborzecki> zyga: hey, how are you feeling today?
[09:15] <zyga> mborzecki: much  better
[09:15] <zyga> stronger than before
[09:15] <mborzecki> zyga: yay, that's great
[09:15] <mborzecki> zyga: koza sends regards ;)
[09:15] <zyga> oh cool
[09:15] <zyga> I wonder how he is doing
[09:21] <pstolowski> back
[09:21] <pstolowski> hey zyga!
[09:22] <zyga> hey Pawel!
[09:23] <zyga> last day off
[09:23] <zyga> I can walk more each day
[09:23] <zyga> I think tomorrow I could do two hour standing sessions interspaced with one hour in-bed sessions
[09:23] <zyga> and intermixed with prescribed exercise
[09:56] <mborzecki> mvo: can you take a look at https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9078 ?
[09:56] <mup> PR #9078: [RFC] boot: fancy marshaller for modeenv values <UC20> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9078>
[09:57] <mborzecki> mvo: and i'll poke ijohnson too when he's online, it'd be nice to land it soonish
[10:01] <mvo> mborzecki: yes
[10:01] <mborzecki> mvo: thanks!
[10:21] <zyga> hey mvo
[10:22] <zyga> I was just chatting with Pawel
[10:22] <zyga> I will take a break now, I'll come back later
[10:34] <pstolowski> pedronis: do you have a moment for #9088 ?
[10:34] <mup> PR #9088: cmd/snap-preseed: use snapd from the deb if newer than from seeds <Preseeding 🍞> <Run nested> <Squash-merge> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9088>
[10:51] <pedronis> pstolowski: do you have a question? or do you need a review?
[10:52] <pstolowski> pedronis: review
[10:52] <pedronis> ah, no, I confused it with a different PR
[10:52] <pedronis> I put it in my queue (having lunch break atm)
[10:52] <pstolowski> thanks, enjoy
[11:18] <mup> PR snapd#9090 closed: cmd/snap/debug/seeding: use unicode for proper yaml <Preseeding 🍞> <Simple 😃> <⚠ Critical> <Created by anonymouse64> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9090>
[11:18] <pedronis> mvo: ^ I forced merged that one, we have a problem with debian-sid atm, it will need a backport
[11:43] <mvo> pedronis: ok
[11:43] <pedronis> pstolowski: reviewed, made some maybe slightly annoying comments, and also a very different suggestion in: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9088#discussion_r465666390
[11:43] <mup> PR #9088: cmd/snap-preseed: use snapd from the deb if newer than from seeds <Preseeding 🍞> <Run nested> <Squash-merge> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9088>
[11:54] <pstolowski> pedronis: thanks, will take a look
[11:55] <pedronis> pstolowski: I think the suggestion is simpler than either current or what I suggested, if a bit less clean, but probably clean enough
[12:03] <mborzecki> moving back home
[12:15] <ijohnson> morning folks
[12:16] <pedronis> mvo: I did a pass on #8982, looks good, left some comments. It needs new reviews though because it has changed quite a bit
[12:16] <mup> PR #8982: snapshots: export of snapshots <Needs Samuele review> <Created by slimjim777> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8982>
[12:17] <mvo> pedronis: thank you so much
[12:18] <mup> PR snapd#9092 opened: interfaces/udev: Do not reload udevadm rules when preseeding <Bug> <Preseeding 🍞> <Squash-merge> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9092>
[12:18] <pstolowski> ^ i need to check other backends, will address them separately if needed
[12:27] <pstolowski> ouch https://www.engadget.com/honda-recalls-608000-minivans-and-suvs-with-fault-software-issues-121511778.html
[12:27] <pstolowski> shoud have auto-refresh enabled ;)
[12:30] <pedronis> pstolowski: I reviewed that
[12:32] <pstolowski> ty
[12:32] <ijohnson> what's the situation with the udev backend and preseeding ?
[12:33] <mvo> pedronis: 8946 got a review from Graham, he +1 but also mentioend to add a period at the end of each sentence. I guess I will just add the "." and push and once tests are good merge ? or do you think the extra spread run is not needed?
[12:35] <pstolowski> ijohnson: I got past the mount issue on xenial, but then it failed as apparently udevadm was triggered by some interface in the seeded snaps (see my standup notes)
[12:35]  * ijohnson looks
[12:36] <pedronis> mvo: not, needed but the tool needs changes
[12:36] <pedronis> as well
[12:37] <pedronis> mvo: I can also look into that today
[12:37] <pedronis> mvo: doing cherry-picks for 2.45 is probably more urgent
[12:38] <ijohnson> pstolowski: interesting, perhaps we should try seeding other snaps which have other interfaces
[12:38] <ijohnson> err preseeding
[12:38] <pedronis> ijohnson: I asked to look at all backends
[12:38] <pstolowski> ijohnson: i'm going to check other backends
[12:38] <ijohnson> sorry I just meant as a spread test
[12:38] <ijohnson> since we may change things over time in the backends setup
[12:38] <pedronis> yes
[12:39] <pedronis> but a bit unclear how to do that, we mostly need to cover backends more than interfaces, but backends might vary. We have a snap with all possible interfaces
[12:39] <pedronis> but not sure it would play well with preseeding
[12:40] <ijohnson> also the issue is that snap with all possible interfaces doesn't have store decls, does it ?
[12:40] <pedronis> exactly
[12:40] <ijohnson> we would need store assertions for the backends to actually run when interfaces are connected
[12:40] <pedronis> also connecting them doesn't always make sense
[12:40] <ijohnson> mmm
[12:41] <pedronis> I mean, with things like some of the support interfaces it gets messy
[12:41] <pedronis> I mean I don't think is sensible to have such set of store declarations
[12:41] <pedronis> I think we need just enough to cover our bases
[12:41] <ijohnson> agreed
[12:41] <pedronis> sensibly
[12:42] <pedronis> maybe there's a why to write backends that would make this kind of issue easier to track
[12:43] <pedronis> mvo: I'll take care of 8946 today
[12:46] <mvo> pedronis: thank you
[12:52] <pedronis> mvo: pushed, please double check my last changes when you have a moment
[12:53] <pstolowski> kmod backend needs the same treatment
[12:55] <pedronis> pstolowski: systemd as well I think
[12:55] <pstolowski> pedronis: just looking at it.. yes
[12:58] <pstolowski> i forgot about all these corners
[13:40] <mborzecki> ijohnson: can you take a look at https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9078 later today?
[13:40] <mup> PR #9078: [RFC] boot: fancy marshaller for modeenv values <UC20> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9078>
[13:41] <ijohnson> sure
[13:41] <mborzecki> ijohnson: thanks, it'd be nice to land it to unblock the horrors in modeenv
[13:41]  * ijohnson read it as "unlock the horrors" and I imagine it's not actually too far off
[13:58] <mborzecki> hm damn build tags
[14:23] <mup> PR snapd#9093 opened: interfaces/kmod: don't load kernel modules in kmod backend when preseeding <Bug> <Preseeding 🍞> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9093>
[14:27] <pstolowski> should #9041 be tagged for 2.45 as well?
[14:27] <mup> PR #9041: osutil/group.go: treat all non-nil errs from user.Lookup{Group,} as Unknown* <Bug> <Needs security review> <Preseeding 🍞> <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9041>
[14:28] <ijohnson> pstolowski: no not necessary for 2.45, as it's blocked on security
[14:29] <pstolowski> ack
[14:46]  * cachio lunch
[15:07] <pedronis> pstolowski: I just landed #9091
[15:07] <mup> PR #9091: cmd/snap: display the error in snap debug seeding if seeding is in error <Preseeding 🍞> <Squash-merge> <Created by pedronis> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9091>
[15:08] <pstolowski> ack, ty
[15:09] <mup> PR snapd#9091 closed: cmd/snap: display the error in snap debug seeding if seeding is in error <Preseeding 🍞> <Squash-merge> <Created by pedronis> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9091>
[15:09] <pedronis> pstolowski: so I think with that all the debug seeding PR are on master
[15:12] <pstolowski> pedronis: yes; i'll look at backporting now
[15:12] <pedronis> thank you
[15:24] <mup> PR snapd#8946 closed: client: move all error kinds into errors.go and add doc strings <Needs Samuele review> <Created by mvo5> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8946>
[15:25] <pedronis> degville: mvo: I did the merge: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/commit/a777978c1102ea95f0a820e174ee066e6efcbcb4
[15:25] <mvo> pedronis: thank you!
[15:27] <degville> pedronis: thanks! I'll update the API page accordingly.
[15:27] <pedronis> thank you
[15:39] <mup> PR snapd#9094 opened: corecfg: add "system.hostname" setting to the system settings <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9094>
[16:01] <pstolowski> so everything re seeding debug backported cleanly, except for spread tests & their helper scripts :}, a bit of a mess there
[16:22] <mup> PR snapcraft#3197 closed: experimental extension support <enhancement> <specification> <Created by cjp256> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3197>
[16:44] <mup> PR snapd#9083 closed: tests: new parameters for nested execution <Run nested> <Simple 😃> <Created by sergiocazzolato> <Merged by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9083>
[17:12] <mup> PR snapcraft#3239 opened: lxd: update connectivity check url <Created by cjp256> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3239>
[17:26] <cachio> ijohnson, cmatsuoka hi, someone could please take a quick look to this one? #8942
[17:26] <mup> PR #8942: tests: support different images on nested execution <Run nested> <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8942>
[17:27] <cachio> it needs a second review
[17:27] <cachio> I need that merged to start pushing a new set of improvements for nested
[17:27] <cachio> thanks
[17:38] <ijohnson> cachio: sure I can take a look
[17:46] <cachio> ijohnson, tx+
[18:19] <ijohnson> cachio: did you try that branch with the cloud-init nested spread tests ?
[18:20] <cachio> all the tests are executed with cloud init
[18:20] <ijohnson> cachio: no I mean did you run the specific tests/nested/manual/cloud-init-* spread tests with this branch ?
[18:20] <cachio> ijohnson, not sure if I am understanding whe question
[18:20] <ijohnson> I imagine those tests would fail with your change
[18:21] <ijohnson> because now when we call start_nested_vm_unit the image file modifications previously done in those tests/nested/manual/cloud-init-* tests would be undone and thus cause those tests to break
[18:22] <cachio> well, they are going to be executed as part of the github actions tests
[18:22] <cachio> let me check the results
[18:23] <ijohnson> ok, but I still think that bit of changes would break those tests
[18:23] <cachio> I'll make a review now to see
[18:23] <ijohnson> if those tests still pass then perhaps the tests are written poorly
[18:23] <ijohnson> thank you
[18:23] <cachio> ij
[18:24] <cachio> ijohnson, it should work
[18:24] <cachio> because in this pr after the manual test we clean the images
[18:24] <cachio> so it is not a problem
[18:24] <cachio> your concern if fixed in the following one, because the manual tests haev a specific name in the images
[18:25] <cachio> and the images are not cleaned anymore
[18:25] <cachio> so they can be reused
[18:25] <cachio> does it make sense?
[18:25] <ijohnson> cachio: no what I mean is that in the tests/nested/manual/cloud-init-nocloud-not-vuln test, we manually call `start_nested_core_vm_unit`
[18:26] <cachio> yes, all the manual tests do that
[18:26] <ijohnson> so now when that is called on line 150 of that task.yaml, your code will overwrite the image file that was used earlier in the test when we called start_nested_core_vm on line 40
[18:26] <ijohnson> cachio: sorry I think the point I'm trying to make is that we have tests where start_nestec_core_vm_unit is called multiple times during one test
[18:26] <cachio> ah, ok, got it, let me see
[18:29] <cachio> ijohnson, so the problem is that we do
[18:29] <cachio> cp "$IMAGE_DIR/$IMAGE_NAME" "$CURRENT_IMAGE"
[18:29] <ijohnson> yes that will overwrite the CURRENT_IMAGE used earlier in the test
[18:30] <cachio> when we start ther image and this overwrite the image right?
[18:30] <ijohnson> yes
[18:30] <cachio> ijohnson, ok, good point, I can fix that
[18:30] <ijohnson> thanks
[18:31] <cachio> thakns for the review!!!
[18:32] <ijohnson> np
[18:37] <cachio> ijohnson, I think it should be fised
[18:37] <cachio> fixed
[18:40] <cachio> let see the test results
[18:40] <cachio> ijohnson, I am going to the kinesiologist now
[18:40] <cachio> I'll be back in 1 hour
[18:40] <cachio> thanks for the review
[18:40] <ijohnson> cachio: ack I'll take a look at the test results when it's done
[18:45] <cachio> I had to leave the copy in the function start_nested_core_vm_unit because now the same of the image changes
[18:49]  * cachio afk -> kinesiologist
[20:37] <mup> PR snapcraft#3239 closed: lxd: update connectivity check url <Created by cjp256> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3239>
[21:35] <mup> PR snapd#9085 closed: daemon,many: switch to use client.ErrorKind and drop the local errorKind <Created by pedronis> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9085>
[21:45] <mup> PR snapd#9095 opened: boot/bootstate20: unify commit method impls, rm bootState20MarkSuccessful <UC20> <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9095>
[21:45] <mup> PR snapd#9096 opened: strutil: add ListsSame helper <Simple 😃> <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9096>
[21:45] <mup> PR snapd#9097 opened: boot/modeenv: add m.deepEquals, m.Origin helpers to simplify bootstate20 refactor <Simple 😃> <UC20> <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/9097>


[02:40] <keantoken> Hello.
[02:42] <keantoken> Hello?
[02:43] <keantoken> Is everyone on strike?
[02:43] <keantoken> At church?
[08:44] <boomboorum> HI everybody, does ubuntustudio has any gui video converter?
[08:48] <boomboorum> anybody?
[20:19] <Huginn> CHRIST....15 years since I used IRC haha anyone up for a question :-)
[20:20] <Huginn> got a funny problem lol have 2 half running laptops and was wondering if there is a way to upgrade ubuntu 10.04 to ubuntu studio ?!
[20:44] <holstein> HuginnNavarita: whats up?
[20:44] <holstein> you really dont need to 'upgrade'
[20:44] <holstein> and probably think they are different
[20:44] <holstein> the deal is
[20:44] <holstein> ubuntustudio = ubuntu
[20:45] <holstein> you can convert ubuntu into ubuntustudio
[20:45] <holstein> OR
[20:45] <holstein> install any of the ubuntustudio meta packages you want
[20:45] <holstein> an easy way to do that is just search in the package manager of your choice for ubuntustudio
[20:45] <holstein> sudo apt-cache search ubuntustudio *for example
[20:46] <holstein> in 10.04, there is a realtime kernel
[20:46] <holstein> *if you feel like you need it
[20:46] <holstein> again, just search linux-rt
[20:47] <holstein> you can check out..
[20:47] <holstein> !vanilla


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[16:44] <dhinak2004> Hello
[18:59] <tsimonq2> Hi