[05:46] <smartboyhw> Good afternoon zequence
[05:46] <smartboyhw> And xequence
[05:46] <smartboyhw> How are you at debconf?
[05:48] <smartboyhw> Damn, I missed the appearence of ScottL:(
[05:50]  * smartboyhw mutters...
[09:26] <xequence> Just attended the Debian Multimedia meeting (BoF)
[09:28] <cub> xequence, cool! any news to share right of the bat?
[09:28] <xequence> cub: Not much. I got a grasp of how Blends work in Debian
[09:29] <xequence> currently, the Debian Multimedi blend is not so much of a Blend team, more of a packaging team
[09:29] <xequence> my two goals will be to create a live image of the blend, and also set up a website for it
[09:29] <xequence> They have a bunch of tasks/meta packages for installing stuff
[09:29] <xequence> but thay aren't a part of our repos
[09:30] <xequence> One idea I have is that we would move some source to Debian, and work from there
[09:30] <xequence> But, that's just an idea so far
[09:37] <cub> Sounds interesting.
[09:48] <cub> Right, should I open a bug report because the xfce keyboard shortcut ctrl+alt+t doesn't open the terminal in US?
[09:51] <cub> saucy that is. Well it doesn't work in 13.04 either but ...
[09:55] <xequence> cub: Same on Xubuntu?
[09:55] <xequence> you could ask them about it, maybe there's a reason for it
[09:55] <cub> No it works in xubuntu
[09:56] <cub> which makes no sense. Since then it should work in US too, right?
[09:57] <cub> I know xfce change a lot before because of the printscreen, but it shouldn't affect this shortcut
[09:57] <cub> will investigate further with my xubuntu vbox
[09:57] <cub> right now I'm trying out Jono's instruction to run xmir on US 13.10
[10:04] <knome> xequence, cub: we've (re)added the shortcut ctrl+alt+T in 13.10
[10:05] <cub> aha, knome why was it changed before?
[10:05] <knome> cub, changed from what?
[10:05] <cub> why was it removed?
[10:05] <knome> i don't know if we ever had it before
[10:06]  * cub wonders why xmir work fine with xubuntu but fails on ubuntu studio
[10:06] <knome> we revamped the shortcuts before, and it might or might not have been removed then
[10:06] <cub> knome, I think I used it with xubuntu before but then again, I could remember wrong and added it myself.
[11:32] <smartboyhw> xequence, hey, how's Debconf? And I missed ScottL yesterday right? :(
[12:04] <cub> Note: xmir only failed on US 13.10 login screen. After login it seems to work just fine. Didn't watch any movies or so, but surfing and reading PDFs no problem.
[12:04] <smartboyhw> cub, login screen? mmm
[12:05] <cub> it's that not what is called?
[12:05] <smartboyhw> cub, I mean, mmm that it failed there:P
[12:05] <cub> strange though since it worked with he xubuntu saucy
[12:05] <smartboyhw> cub, :O
[12:06] <cub> but that was yesteday. A lot of things can have happened since then!
[12:06] <smartboyhw> lol
[12:20] <xequence> smartboyhw: Yes, Scott dropped by yesterday
[12:20] <xequence> I was on the Debian Multimeda meeting, regarding creating a blend today
[12:20] <xequence> I got some insight into the problems therein
[12:20] <xequence> so, I'll be starting to work on that later on
[12:21] <cub> what kind of problems?
[12:21] <xequence> not sure when, maybe not fully until next year when we release 14.04
[12:21] <xequence> someone needs to figure out how to put up a website for it, and where
[12:21] <xequence> someone needs to figure out how to build the image, and how to publish it
[12:21] <xequence> things like that
[12:22] <smartboyhw> xequence, you should set up a wiki first：P
[12:22] <cub> the first part seems simple enough. The second one, i suppose you got that covered? :D
[12:22] <xequence> The best thing is to use debians own resources to as great degree as possible, and there's a lot of documentation out there
[12:22] <xequence> also, just need to talk with the right people to get help
[12:22] <cub> pah, website first. Get the word around, then people will look in/after wiki.
[12:23] <cub> xequence, how many people are in the team?
[12:23] <xequence> cub: quite many, but most of the work is done by a handful of people
[12:24] <smartboyhw> xequence, including you I suppose?
[12:24] <xequence> My idea is also to try integrate the work that we do with this blend as much as possible
[12:24] <xequence> so, we could all join that team really
[12:24] <xequence> I haven't really gotten started yet.
[12:25] <xequence> I might not be the one maintaining most packages, but that's alright. Others can do that. I can work on the abstraction part - the user side of things
[12:25] <cub> I would have guessed they were a lot more and hardcore coders all of them. Not like, well like me.
[12:25] <smartboyhw> xequence, great:)
[12:25] <xequence> cub: It's basically a packaging team right now. People who know how to build software and how to follow Debian policies
[12:27]  * smartboyhw should start become active in it someday, damnit
[12:28] <cub> I suppose. I have just always been a bit intimidated by Debian. Something those "real hackers" use. :P
[12:29]  * smartboyhw likes Ubuntu sorry:P
[12:29] <cub> I like the idea of being closer to the source.
[12:30]  * smartboyhw is horrified at #kubuntu for the number of users having problems..
[14:48] <OvenWerks> smartboyhw: I have been using kubuntu pretty solid with very few problems. No show stoppers.
[14:49] <OvenWerks> xequence: I think you are on the right path.
[14:51] <OvenWerks> cub: we are based on xfce really. We have not rebased on xubuntu's -settings package since 11.10
[14:52] <cub> OvenWerks, aha? I heard it pulled from Xubuntu
[14:52] <OvenWerks> cub: feel free to make changes there
[14:52] <OvenWerks> no
[14:53] <OvenWerks> we started from there, but have not kept it synced.
[14:53] <OvenWerks> when there are only two or three people doing things it is hard.
[14:53] <OvenWerks> it has been great having more help.
[14:55] <cub> I hope to when I get more familiar with everything
[14:55] <OvenWerks> cub: I will be doing a number of changes to the settings package anyway. I would be happy to include any merges you have. Or if you know where the setting goes in your home folder I can probably translate to system default.
[14:58] <OvenWerks> xequence: I would like to have a postinst command to remove /usr/share/xsessions/xfce.desktop
[14:58] <cub> OvenWerks, gotta go but will read up later on.
[14:58] <OvenWerks> This would be for our ISO only
[14:58] <OvenWerks> cub: great!
[14:59] <OvenWerks> xequence: maybe it could be in our preseed.
[15:00] <smartboyhw> OvenWerks, heh, that excludes when you install our backports PPA to upgrade to a newer KDE SC version
[15:02] <OvenWerks> smartboyhw: I have only used 13.10. It started as a fresh install, but I think by now everything has been upgraded.
[15:02] <smartboyhw> OvenWerks, 13.10 is smoother:P
[15:17] <xequence> OvenWerks: Yes, we should remove it. Not sure where it should be done
[16:37] <OvenWerks> xequence: My thought is that it should be a settings postinst, but should be triggered by a preseed.
[16:38] <OvenWerks> That way if the settings is installed on it's own it doesn't disturb what the user has.
[17:50] <holstein> wilee-nilee is the guy i have been trying to get to help us in the main channel
[17:51] <holstein> xequence and OvenWerks .. or whomever
[18:41] <OvenWerks> holstein: people have to help of their own free will. More would be nice though :)
[18:44] <OvenWerks> I think making the live ISOs startup depend heavily on graphics HW is a mistake. It looks nice sure, but for some people broken is just broken.
[18:45] <OvenWerks> Mostly a little patience is all thats needed, On many of my bootups the monitor goes blank and tells me no signal, but If I just wait for lightdm (and X) to load, it comes back and I can log in.
[19:35] <TheDrums> xequence: Oh, have you actually tried the liquorix kernel and compared it to -lowlat?
[19:49] <xequence> TheDrums: No
[19:49] <xequence> I'm quite aware that realtime kernels outperform linux-lowlatency, if that is what you mean
[19:51] <cub> xequence, very weird behaviour from my 12.04 installation. I forgot to switch on the wifi and ran apt-get update, and it started asking for Saucy 13.10 cd....any idea how that might have occured? I have not installed 13.10 on this laptop but have downloaded the iso before. Shouldn't mess with my repos though..?
[20:01] <xequence> cub: check the contents of /etc/apt/sources.list
[20:03] <holstein> OvenWerks: i asked hiim to just be there and redirect or whatever.. if the channel is dead
[20:04] <cub> xequence, yup, there is deb: cdrom pointing to 13.10. :D
[20:04] <xequence> cub: that's weird. Just comment it out, and do sudo apt-get update
[20:06] <cub> hmm I wonder...I remember running apt-get dist-upgrade because the low-latency was held back all the time....but I thought that was on my other laptop. Perhaps I'm just confused
[20:06] <xequence> dist-upgrade just does a normal update
[20:07] <xequence> I'm more inclined to think you put in a saucy CD and did something
[20:08] <cub> Not that I know of. I have to install on Virtualbox only.
[20:09] <xequence> cub: doing 'sudo apt-get upgrade' will sometimes not update all your packages. If an update wants to change something on your system, like remove some files, that package will be held back
[20:10] <xequence> it's like a safe update
[20:10] <xequence> to do a "normal" update, you do: sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[20:10] <xequence> that's the same as using the update manager gui
[20:11] <cub> Aha that explains why I often had to run the update manager to get newer kernels
[21:09] <OvenWerks> holstein: sounds good.
[21:59] <OvenWerks> micahg: don't know if you are still here this afternoon. If you don't see it till later thats ok too. Does lintian complain about: desktop-command-not-in-package if the package in depends is not releassed yet?
[22:05] <OvenWerks> Anyway, it is only "Certainty: possible" and I know it's ok.


[00:47] <jtv> smoser: looks like I neglected to register the report_boot_images task.  The inability to pxe-boot should be entirely unrelated.
[00:47] <jtv> Or wait, I think that path is simply wrong...
[16:12] <smoser> jtv, opened bug 1051626
[16:12] <smoser> your fix seems not complete in my testing.
[17:29] <jtv> smoser: I commented on the bug.  The fact that the error is still displayed may be unrelated to the remaining pxeboot problem.
[20:05] <lifeless> morning


[01:07] <thumper> axw_: ping
[01:07] <axw_> thumper: gah sorry, overlap with standup
[01:07] <axw_> thumper: can we make it in 5-10 please?
[01:08] <thumper> sure
[02:55] <axw_> wallyworld: last one: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8106
[03:55] <thumper> well... a great day of race conditions and deadlocks
[03:56] <thumper> https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8107
[04:16] <babbageclunk> thumper: stink
[04:17] <thumper> yeah
[04:18] <babbageclunk> thumper: oh nasty - so the rate-limiting would start causing the agents to timeout and then what - they go into a never-ending loop trying to connect and timing out?
[04:18] <thumper> babbageclunk: the apiserver got stuck ratelimiting every agent
[04:19] <thumper> because the forwarder tried too often
[04:21] <babbageclunk> thumper: approved
[05:03] <thumper> laters peeps
[06:23] <jam> babbageclunk: I looked at 8108
[06:23] <jam> I don't think we want to refuse any downgrade
[06:24] <jam> but maybe restrict it within a major.minor series
[06:24] <jam> the most important thing is to get "juju upgrade-juju" to agree with what the actual Upgrade logic will do.
[07:12] <wallyworld> axw: if you get a chance later, could you look at https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8104. the jujud operator branch depends on this one. i've got other stuff to do so  no huge rush
[07:12] <axw> wallyworld: ok. still working on provisioner stuff, will see how I go
[07:12] <wallyworld> no worries, it can wait
[12:13] <jam> axw: reviewed 8109
[20:00] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: ping?
[20:43] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: hey
[20:48] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: sorry chatting to thumper
[20:48] <wallyworld> ok, np
[21:18] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: hey, did you see the message from jam above?
[21:18] <babbageclunk> (off the phone now
[21:18] <babbageclunk> )
[21:18] <wallyworld> looking
[21:19] <babbageclunk> thumper points out that the problem with downgrading is that we don't have inverses for the upgrade steps
[21:20] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: i haven't looked at your PR yet, but what he says has sound logic
[21:21] <babbageclunk> Yeah, and it matched a bit with some of the code in the upgrade-juju command. But I think the check in state.checkUpgradeInfoSanity is there because downgrading would require undoing upgrade steps.
[21:21] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: ^
[21:22] <wallyworld> i'll need to look at the code
[21:23] <wallyworld> but in general downgrading has been an issue due to not being able to revserse schema changes etc
[21:25] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: it looks like that state code refuses any doengrade, right?
[21:31] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: yeah, it's pretty clear, and it's been like that since the beginning.
[21:37] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: So that sounds like I probably can't allow downgrades even within the same major.minor.
[21:39] <babbageclunk> (by since the beginning, I mean, since upgrading was introduced in 2014.)
[21:47] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: yes, we have never supported downgrading IIANM
[21:49] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: since that's the case, making the CLI match what the server will do is to me the most important bit, and then we can discuss whether to allow downgrades separately
[21:49] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: makes sense
[21:50] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: there are a couple of test failures about trying to do downgrades - it's kind of surprising that they were considered to pass when the sanity check would still fail.
[21:51] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: you mean the there are CLI tests? that assert we can do downgrades?
[21:52] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: yeah, one in the apiserver tests for model manager, one in featuretests
[21:53] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: just looking at them now. Maybe we need to distinguish between allowing downgrades for the controller and hosted models?
[21:53] <wallyworld> i'd need to look at those, perhaps we should allow minor
[21:53] <wallyworld> controller versions needs to be > hosted model version
[21:54] <babbageclunk> That's already checked. But would there be any benefit for downgrading hosted models?
[21:57] <wallyworld> that's up to the user of thse models
[21:58] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: it doesn't look like the modelmanager test is actually trying to downgrade - just happens to trip that in setting up the test.
[21:58] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: but the feature test is trying to do it.
[21:58] <wallyworld> and the feature test passes? how?
[21:58] <wallyworld> since there is that state check
[22:01] <babbageclunk> I mean, it did pass until I broke it.
[22:08] <wallyworld> but the feature test is meant to be full stack which mean the state check would have been run
[22:14] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: I presume that means that it wasn't checking that there weren't any errors.
[22:15] <wallyworld> maybe, not sure without looking
[22:22] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: hmm, the test is about HA - there's a need for the leader to be able to downgrade if one of the followers can't upgrade?
[22:23] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/develop/featuretests/upgrade_test.go#L157
[22:24] <wallyworld> makes sense
[22:24] <wallyworld> so we must bypass that state check then for that case
[22:24] <wallyworld> but that's internal, not a user driven thing
[22:26] <wallyworld> thumper: small one https://github.com/juju/bundlechanges/pull/33
[22:31] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: ok, I'll try to chase that code down...
[22:34] <thumper> wallyworld: approved
[22:35] <wallyworld> ta
[23:48] <wallyworld> thumper: a larger one https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8111. sadly we still need to use charmstore.v5-unstable, but at least that's only in tests


[00:57]  * pleia2 loads up the rss reader to dig up some more news
[01:01] <pleia2> going to promote the refrigerator news to "General Community News" because that's... cool :D
[01:38]  * ahoneybun pokes pleia2 and tells her that the Kubuntu Council has 3 members whose terms are ending
[01:39] <ahoneybun> on May 20th the new members will be revealed
[01:41] <pleia2> ahoneybun: I know :)
[01:41] <pleia2> the email with nominee names is a public one
[01:42] <ahoneybun> just checking :)
[01:48] <pleia2> ok, email sent off to summary writers
[04:03]  * ahoneybun will start on the summaries tomorrow
[16:12]  * PaulW2U slow news week, only nine summaries to do now


[06:17] <didrocks> good morning
[06:22] <jibel> salut didrocks
[06:23] <didrocks> salut jibel
[06:25] <duflu> Morning didrocks and jibel
[06:27] <didrocks> hey duflu
[06:28] <jibel> hi duflu
[07:50] <willcooke> morning all
[07:57] <willcooke> anyone got any ideas for a service which will allow me to build a poll for the wallpaper comp?  The polls built in to Discourse don't scale and limit each poll to 20 entries or thereabouts.  There are > 100 wallpaper entries
[08:02] <Laney> moin
[08:02] <willcooke> hi Laney
[08:03] <didrocks> hey willcooke
[08:04] <didrocks> hey Laney
[08:04] <willcooke> morning didrocks, how goes?
[08:04] <didrocks> willcooke: apart from google form + API, I don't have any strong idea
[08:04] <didrocks> willcooke: I'm fine, thanks, you?
[08:04] <Laney> hi willcooke hi didrocks
[08:04] <willcooke> didrocks, I'll take another look at Forms
[08:06] <jibel> paid version of surveymonkey
[08:17] <duflu> Morning willcooke and Laney
[08:17] <willcooke> afternoon duflu
[09:00] <Laney> oops
[09:00] <Laney> duf TAB :(
[09:03] <Laney> anyone in touch with kylin?
[09:03] <Laney> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/440066548/buildlog_ubuntu_eoan_amd64_ubuntukylin_BUILDING.txt.gz think they need to seed a theme
[09:04] <Laney> ah, handsome_feng is here ^^^^
[09:21] <darkxst> my latest gjs upload is failing autopkgtests on arm64, but I don't have access to any arm64 to investigate further
[09:25] <handsome_feng> Laney: Thanks, So just seeds gtk-common-themems will fix this build failed?
[09:26] <Laney> should do
[09:27] <handsome_feng> Laney: Then I will do it now, thanks for your info, :)
[09:27] <Laney> snap:gtk-common-themes, see the ubuntu seeds for how we do it there
[09:28] <handsome_feng> Laney: Got it!
[09:28] <Laney> 👏
[09:37] <willcooke> WOW!!  164 entries for the wallpaper comp this cycle!
[09:38] <didrocks> nice
[09:38] <marcustomlinson> Crazy
[09:39] <willcooke> didrocks, Google forms work out pretty well.  I need to look at the API next time though.  It's taken me 40 mins to populate the answers
[09:40] <didrocks> willcooke: 40 min doesn't sound too bad
[09:42] <willcooke> copy and pasting for 40 mins solid is verrrry boring :)
[09:46] <didrocks> heh, good music is needed :p
[09:49] <Laney> sounds like managerial life
[09:54] <Laney> darkxst: can try to get a backtrace if you want?
[09:56] <darkxst> Laney, that would be good if you can, logs are not showing anything around the failed test
[09:56] <Laney> well it does show a sigsegv
[09:56] <Laney> so lets see
[09:57] <willcooke> desktoppers:  can you test please:  https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSciJiNFt-cnSOlt_mSIIwQUl8RNslg-3cdu1uUsqgbqERIb4Q/viewform
[09:57] <willcooke> I will reset the answers before it is generally announced
[09:58] <Laney> are you planning to open it to the general public?
[09:59] <Laney> and is this every entry or did you pre filter?
[10:00] <Laney> form seemed to work from my side fwiw
[10:12] <willcooke> Laney, yeah, general public.  No filtering
[10:26] <darkxst> Laney, I meant nothing useful in logs
[10:56] <Laney> darkxst: it just passed for me
[10:56] <Laney> maybe retry?
[10:57] <Laney> willcooke: interesting, guess we'll see how that goes :-)
[11:03] <darkxst> Laney, thanks, have kicked off a retry
[11:18] <Laney> darkxst: worked
[11:18]  * Laney was spying on the logs
[11:29] <darkxst> Laney, cool, guess you have many super powers ;)
[11:33] <RikMills> hi. does vlc start in ubuntu daily?
[11:40] <Laney> wfm
[11:45] <RikMills> LP: #1842382
[11:50] <RikMills> wonder why it is just flavour dailies then :/
[11:52] <RikMills> Laney: did you test the current or the 20190903 build?
[11:52] <Laney> no I tried from my system
[11:52] <Laney> do you mean a live session?
[11:53] <RikMills> yes, live cd. I'm updating an installed eoan now to see if the bug appears
[12:02] <RAOF> 119115
[12:03]  * Laney presses RAOF's yubikey
[12:05] <willcooke> :D
[12:13] <Laney> RikMills: it is broken if I apt install it on an ubuntu iso too
[12:13] <Laney> but I don't think I'm going to have time to look into it, sorry
[12:13] <Laney> the guy on the bug is barking up the wrong tree with that /lib thing though, that's just becaue we have usrmerge
[12:14] <Laney> well, unless vlc is doing some weird introspection .........
[12:15] <RikMills> Laney: thanks. I forgot about usrmerge. it just worked on the installed system I updated, so at the moment seems vlc doesn't like something about recent live sessions
[12:21] <Laney> openat(AT_FDCWD, "/vlc/plugins/plugins.dat", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
[12:21] <Laney> that's missing the libdir prefix
[12:23] <RikMills> o_o
[12:24] <Laney> bet if you do sudo ln -s /usr/lib/*/vlc/ / it starts working
[12:25]  * RikMills checks
[12:27] <RikMills> Laney: yep, it does
[12:27] <Laney> so I guess look at what vlc's doing to find that plugins.dat thing
[12:31] <RikMills> Laney: thanks for that
[12:33] <Laney> no problemo
[13:13] <Trevinho> hey, I won't be around for the meeting as I've a funeral to attend... I might be around at beginning but not all time
[13:27] <ricotz> Laney, I confirmed in the past that e.g. libreoffice is crashing running on daily iso live session after "apt upgrade", so it is definitely an live session issue
[13:27] <ricotz> that was with a bionic daily iso
[13:30] <kenvandine> Meeting time!
[13:30] <kenvandine> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-09-03
[13:30] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep  3 13:30:23 2019 UTC.  The chair is kenvandine. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[13:30] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[13:30] <kenvandine> Roll call:  didrocks, duflu (out), jamesh (out), jibel, kenvandine, laney, marcustomlinson, oSoMoN, seb128 (out) , tkamppeter, trevinho (out), robert_ancell (out)
[13:30] <marcustomlinson> hi
[13:30] <didrocks> hey
[13:31] <Laney> morning
[13:31] <Laney> ricotz: what is "it"?
[13:31] <Trevinho> (hi)
[13:32] <ricotz> Laney, "that the upgrading packages in a live session get borked"
[13:32] <kenvandine> Let's get started
[13:32] <kenvandine> #topic rls-ee-bugs
[13:32] <kenvandine> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[13:33] <kenvandine> bug 1662031
[13:33] <kenvandine> looks like oSoMoN had at least looked at a similar bug a while back
[13:34] <Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1842256 ?
[13:35] <kenvandine> whoops, yet which is linked to the old bug i linked :)
[13:35] <Laney> sounds like one to take to me
[13:35] <kenvandine> ok
[13:36] <kenvandine> yeah, i'm thinking we assign it to oSoMoN
[13:36] <didrocks> +1 and he isn't there to say no :p
[13:37] <kenvandine> done
[13:38] <kenvandine> bug 1841929
[13:38] <kenvandine> i think we should take that too
[13:38] <Laney> kenvandine: you need to target to series to make it come up on -tracking (as well as deleting the tag)
[13:39] <Laney> don't understand why this bug is so important, seems quite minor to me
[13:39] <Laney> but no strong opinion
[13:39] <marcustomlinson> I guess is didrocks wants to take it...
[13:39] <marcustomlinson> *if
[13:39] <didrocks> I don't think I will have to have a look TBH
[13:40] <didrocks> but it's a regression, we shouldn't really accept regressions IMHO
[13:40] <kenvandine> I suspect lots of people will experience it
[13:40] <didrocks> it makes using the vol+/- unusable here (and was confirmed)
[13:40] <kenvandine> i almost never press that key and just release it
[13:40] <Laney> but you can do ...
[13:40]  * Laney shrugs
[13:41] <kenvandine> Anyone want to volunteer to take it?
[13:42] <didrocks> I think seb was talking about Trevinho knowing that part of the code
[13:42] <didrocks> (it's opened upstream btw, but didn't get feedback)
[13:42] <kenvandine> that's what i was thinking
[13:42] <Trevinho> mh, I can have a look
[13:42] <kenvandine> :)
[13:42] <kenvandine> ok
[13:44] <kenvandine> bug 1841794
[13:46] <kenvandine> has anyone here reproduced this?
[13:46] <didrocks> some dups, can be reproduced reliably with the Dock in autohide mode (so I bet upstream won't be really interested to look at it)
[13:47] <kenvandine> we clearly need to take this
[13:48] <Trevinho> well, I'm quite sure upsteream doesn't want anything crashing either
[13:48] <Trevinho> but yeah, it's mine.
[13:48] <kenvandine> oik
[13:49] <kenvandine> bug 1841718
[13:51] <kenvandine> this is probably not mutter or gtk
[13:55] <kenvandine> anyone think we should take the radeon bug?
[13:56] <Laney> If it's a driver problem it's for Timo probably.
[13:56] <kenvandine> do you think i should  mark as invalid for mutter and gtk?
[13:56] <kenvandine> i think so
[13:56] <marcustomlinson> yeah agree
[13:57] <marcustomlinson> from the history it's likely xserver-xorg-video-ati again
[13:57] <Laney> Would suggest nominating and assigning for the driver package too, otherwise it might get forgotten
[13:58] <kenvandine> bug 1841915
[13:59] <kenvandine> Laney: you've been commenting on that
[13:59] <kenvandine> what do you think?
[13:59] <Laney> I think Wayland only bugs are not rls tracking material
[13:59] <kenvandine> ok
[14:00] <kenvandine> that's it for ee incoming
[14:00] <kenvandine> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[14:01] <kenvandine> bug 1834671 isn't assigned
[14:01] <kenvandine> affects chromium and firefox
[14:01] <kenvandine> i'll assign to oSoMoN
[14:02] <kenvandine> the rest are assigned
[14:02] <kenvandine> moving on
[14:03] <kenvandine> #topic rls-dd-bugs
[14:03] <kenvandine> nothing incoming
[14:03] <kenvandine> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[14:05] <kenvandine> bug 1828884
[14:05] <kenvandine> there's nobody assigned to the poppler tasks, which are the only ones not fixed
[14:06] <kenvandine> anyone know about this?
[14:06] <marcustomlinson> seb I believe pokes at this each week
[14:07] <marcustomlinson> I guess mean, no I don't know
[14:07] <kenvandine> :)
[14:07] <kenvandine> ok, moving on
[14:07] <kenvandine> #topic rls-cc-bugs
[14:07] <kenvandine> nothing incoming and tracking is fine
[14:07] <marcustomlinson> what about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1833617?
[14:09] <kenvandine> from the comments it looks like it's being handled
[14:09] <kenvandine> there is a test kernel
[14:09] <marcustomlinson> ah that was tracking ok
[14:09] <kenvandine> #topic rls-bb-bugs
[14:09] <kenvandine> nothing incoming
[14:09] <kenvandine> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[14:10] <kenvandine> tracking is a long list
[14:10] <kenvandine> the poppler task is showing up there as well
[14:11] <kenvandine> there is also bug 1727908
[14:12]  * kenvandine  assignes the bionic task to seb as well
[14:13] <kenvandine> I think that's it
[14:13] <kenvandine> #topic aob
[14:14] <kenvandine> going once
[14:14] <kenvandine> going twice
[14:15] <kenvandine> Thanks everyone!
[14:15] <kenvandine> #endmeeting
[14:15] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep  3 14:15:03 2019 UTC.
[14:15] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2019/ubuntu-desktop.2019-09-03-13.30.moin.txt
[14:15] <marcustomlinson> thanks
[14:18] <didrocks> thx!
[17:37] <willcooke> night all


[00:01] <paissad> broder, hmm, i tried to copy exactly the same line from lintian, here is an example
[00:01] <paissad>  pms-linux: spelling-error-in-changelog informations information
[00:02] <broder> paissad: sorry, you've exhausted my knowledge of lintian overrides at this point
[00:02] <paissad> broder, currently, in  my lintian, i don't have 'W:' ..
[00:03] <paissad> broder, no matter :D, thanks mate
[06:30] <dilruk> im new here...could use some help
[06:49] <Ampelbein> dilruk: hi, have you read the packaging guide already?
[06:50] <dilruk> can u point me there please
[06:50] <dilruk> i've been reading this
[06:50] <dilruk> http://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/packaging-guide/html/introduction-to-ubuntu-development.html
[06:51] <Ampelbein> dilruk: that's fine.
[06:51] <Ampelbein> !packaging | dilruk
[06:51] <Ampelbein> dilruk: the other links there have even more information. I found it best to try things and then ask when I encountered an error.
[06:52] <dilruk> great. thanks
[07:28] <dilruk> $ pbuilder-dist <release> create
[07:28] <dilruk> im running natty
[07:28] <dilruk> should i use natty in the <release>
[07:29] <Ampelbein> dilruk: most likely not. You need to use the codename of the distribution you are building the package for. Since natty is stable now, only high-impact bugs are fixed there. You probably want to create packages for oneiric, the distribution currently in development.
[07:30] <dilruk> ok thanks for the info
[07:31] <pdtpatr1ck> how long does it typically take for ur keys to sync? about an hour?
[07:31] <dilruk> i was wondering too
[07:32] <Ampelbein> pdtpatr1ck: you can check http://keyserver.ubuntu.com/ if it has your key.
[07:32] <dilruk> great
[07:52] <pdtpatr1ck> I have AppleMail - what's the best way to view the encrypted email with my keys? FirePGP is no longer maintained
[07:53] <pdtpatr1ck> ahh nvm .. figured it out
[21:27] <ScottK> Ampelbein: I don't think the current packaging guide on p.u.c is very newbie suitable.  The UDD tools (which are all it describes) are not really mature enough for general use.
[21:27] <ScottK> I think it's still best to point people to the wiki.
[21:36] <Ampelbein> ScottK: yes, I normally do this in addition to the UDD-guide.
[21:41] <ScottK> I guess my point is I wouldn't point new people to the UDD guide at all.


[08:06] <RikMills> mdeslaur, leosilva : Hi, if you recall the kdesu breakage, I wonder whet your opinion on me doing this is?
[08:07] <RikMills> https://git.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/+git/kdesu/commit/?h=bugfix&id=5870abb5de13c50ac9539b7b96754b2d4ab81c77
[08:07] <RikMills> and possibly SRUing that to jammy
[08:07] <RikMills> ^^ Eickmeyer
[10:59] <mdeslaur> RikMills: I think it's a reasonable work-around
[14:09] <RikMills> mdeslaur: thanks. I think I am just going to go ahead and upload that for kinetic. I will then copy in security if/when I SRU to jammy to make sure that is ok
[14:14] <mdeslaur> sure
[14:25] <RikMills> mdeslaur: done. seem the guy who made the sudo config change in debian is also fine with it, so I will try to get it added there via a MP on salsa
[14:29] <mdeslaur> ack


[16:01] <papamoose1> @maxb,@cjwatson: thanks, i'll take a look.
[16:40] <anonan> Hello everyone. I'm trying to create a modified Ubuntu ISO that detects the user's MAC address, compares it with a database on the ISO, and preseeds the install accordingly. The idea is that there should be one ISO image that can be used to correctly install any machine in my office, automatically.
[16:41] <anonan> I have the logic to decide the preseed values in my preseed/early_command script, and the script executes just fine, including the final "chroot /root debconf-set-selections /path/to/outfile".
[16:41] <anonan> However, it seems like the installed system is then configured according to the default values in the "static" preseed file.
[16:41] <anonan> Do you know what the reason for that could be?
[17:02] <anonan> Essentially, I'm trying to preseed "on the fly" during installation, but it doesn't seem to affect the setup process.
[17:32] <CarlFK> anonan: sounds like what you are doing in early_command isn't doing what you want, right?  if so, I would change it to a one line simple example.  it may be a bug, it may be you aren't doing it right, it may be what you want isn't supported
[17:35] <CarlFK> how do I preseed .. grub?  so this isn't appended: quiet splash
[17:35] <CarlFK> I need to see the text so I can see what is casing the boot to hang sometimes
[18:03] <anonan> CarlFK: Sorry for the delayed answer. Yes, the result isn't what I want, but the early_command runs in its entirety. I know that because debconf-get-selections shows the values to be preseeded the way I want them to be. Alas, they are not honored when the setup runs.
[18:04] <anonan> I used to set a default netcfg/hostname in the static preseed file and overwrite it dynamically, which resulted in the static value to be in effect. Now that I have removed the static value, that problem is gone, but what persists is the fact that the network interface is not configured at all in the installed system, although the netcfg options for that are set (dynamically).


[01:01]  * mkarnicki officially thanks verterok for his time and patience
[01:02] <mkarnicki> :)
[01:02]  * mkarnicki adds to verterok's karma
[02:03] <Samizdata> honk
[03:14] <Tyriel> I can't access my contact list in the Evolution from Ubuntu One!! when is it going to be up?
[03:47] <Samizdata> Any chance anyone has a clue about restoring a missing Ubuntu One address book in Evolution?
[08:22] <Samizdata> honk
[08:23] <Samizdata> Anyone around with U1/Evolution skills, please?
[08:41] <Samizdata> Well, I guess I will stop by at a better time.  Have a nice evening, folks.
[13:08] <suprengr> contacts not syncing since lucid install - n.b. evolution settings 'restored' from karmic evolution 'save settings' -any connection?
[14:23] <MrSpring> Evolution contacts not syncing since lucid installed [on both desktop & netbook]- n.b. evolution settings 'restored' from karmic evolution 'save settings' - any connection? Tried several options from research including evolution-couchdb remove/re-install... all tna -all other parts of U1 aok.
[14:39] <MrSpring> QUIT
[14:58] <duffydack> u1 is really quick today
[15:38] <duffydack> Evolution isnt sync`in any contacts tho... ?
[18:08] <beuno> duffydack, right
[18:08] <beuno> so we haven't been able to enable couchdb replication
[18:08] <beuno> we tried last week
[18:08] <beuno> but the big backlog completely killed our servers
[18:09] <beuno> contact syncing and file syncing are independant
[18:09] <beuno> file syncing had a few upgrades applied to it that seemed to improve things
[18:09] <beuno> although we still have a few more fixes, so it should only get better
[18:38] <duffydack> its not that important to me , yet..
[18:51] <zekopeko_> simple question: is per folder sync depended on a specific U1 version or on the Ubuntu version?
[23:41] <s3th> hi
[23:45] <wgrant> honk! bug #590540 and bug #590543 are... bad.
[23:45] <ubot4> wgrant: Bug 590540 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/590540 is private
[23:45] <ubot4> wgrant: Bug 590543 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/590543 is private
[23:48] <beuno> wgrant, so
[23:48] <beuno> I don't quite understand them
[23:49] <beuno> wgrant, I don;t think #590543 is actually possible
[23:49] <beuno> once somebody claims that share, it's done
[23:49] <wgrant> beuno: But nobody has claimed it yet.
[23:50] <beuno> ignore that comment
[23:50] <beuno> ok, I see what you mean
[23:50] <beuno> it should be a POST instead of a share
[23:50] <beuno> er
[23:50] <beuno> GET
[23:50] <beuno> yes, you're right
[23:50] <beuno> the first bug, I don't quite understand
[23:52] <s3th> honk i published a file but public link is broken
[23:57] <beuno> s3th, did you publish it from the desktop or the web?
[23:57] <s3th> beuno: from the web
[23:58] <beuno> s3th, what's teh URL?
[23:58] <s3th> (i tried also from the desktop...the same)
[23:58] <s3th> beuno: http://ubuntuone.com/p/6Fu/


[01:07] <kdub> hmm, none of our top-approved things have landed today
[01:07] <kdub> good morning duflu
[01:14] <duflu_> kdub: Hi
[01:15] <duflu_> kdub: Same thing happened Friday-to-Monday
[01:23] <racarr> unity-mirisnt landingeither
[01:23] <racarr> also unity mir doesnt build against dev branch
[01:23] <racarr> also the sky is falling.
[01:26] <kdub> http://www.savagechickens.com/2013/01/jenkins.html
[02:31] <duflu_> kdub: I'll land them all manually
[03:17] <duflu> Back soon
[08:49] <ogra_> RAOF, android uses ueventd ... but in our setup where we run an android container under ubuntu, the ubuntu side has udev and can monitor the events without issue
[13:36] <ricmm> alf_: ping
[13:36] <alf_> ricmm: hey
[13:37] <greyback> alf_: pings.push_back(greyback)
[13:38] <ricmm> lol
[13:38] <ricmm> alf->pings.pop_back()
[13:38] <ricmm> I need 5 min
[13:39] <ricmm> greyback: go
[13:41] <greyback> alf_: just looking for some high-level advice. I had Qt rendering 1 frame successfully as a Mir compositor. But it crashes around the swapBuffer (DisplayBuffer::post_update) call, with a pretty useless stack trace
[13:43] <greyback> alf_: this is the sort of backtrace: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6405348/. The __GI_abort suggests to me an exception is being thrown, but I can't catch it in my code.
[13:44] <greyback> what would you recommend me do? Step through Mir code? Or track the GL calls with apitrace? Suggestions welcome
[13:44] <alf_> greyback: Is Mir built with debug symbols?
[13:44] <ricmm> so many threads
[13:45] <greyback> alf_: I'm using the last release, and dbg symbols are installed
[13:46] <ricmm> what sits at 0x4178671c?
[13:46] <ricmm> I'm gonna go ahead and guess one of the android GL blobs
[13:47] <greyback> yep
[13:47] <greyback> so that hints to me some bad GL call
[13:47] <alf_> greyback: why aren't you developing on the desktop? ;)
[13:48] <greyback> alf_: because it seems every time I try, I lock myself out of X completely :)
[13:49] <greyback> alf_: should I? Then I'd be using the usual gbm drivers,, which are probably easier to debug, I guess
[13:50] <alf_> greyback: That would be my proposal... do you have a laptop you can use as an ssh terminal (or the other way around)?
[13:52] <tvoss> greyback, seems to be the snapshotter is waiting ... just a wild guess: could you temporarily disable it?
[13:52] <greyback> tvoss: aye, that was an idea I had too
[13:52] <greyback> alf_: yep, ok, I'll do that so
[13:53] <alf_> greyback: in case you continue on the phone, ensure you have -dbg symbols/ddeb packages for all major packages in the stack (e.g. stdc++, qt), since on arm not only you don't get symbols, the backtrace is cut short...
[13:53] <alf_> tvoss: greyback: FWIW, it's normal for the snapshotter to just wait...
[13:54] <tvoss> alf_, yup, agreed: as I said, just a wild guess
[13:54] <greyback> alf_: ah, that's interesting. I thought short BT was only due to corrupted stack. Nice tip, thanks
[13:54] <ricmm> greyback: I would advise against doing this on the desktop
[13:54] <ricmm> greyback: as it wont be the first platform to use it
[13:55] <greyback> ricmm: that was my original motivation
[13:55] <ricmm> you know my feelings on these kind of things, and from experience we know where it can take us :)
[14:00] <ricmm> alf_: so my question went in another direction
[14:00] <ricmm> kdub's investigation of n7 showed that screenshotting is causing it to crash
[14:01] <ricmm> filling the texture from the buffer seems to be blowing everything up, the screen starts to flicker and it stops getting update
[14:03] <ogra_> ricmm, screenshotting crashes maguro too ... fwiw
[14:03] <ricmm> what screenshotting
[14:04] <ricmm> the shell's running apps thing?
[14:04] <ogra_> no, taking a screenshot :P
[14:04] <ricmm> screencap on adb?
[14:04] <ogra_> ignore, me, we obviously mean different things
[14:05] <ogra_> mirfbdump
[14:05] <ricmm> got it
[14:05] <ricmm> I dont have that one :)
[14:06] <ogra_> its a script from QA :)
[14:06] <ricmm> ok
[14:06] <ogra_> ricmm, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6405471/
[14:06] <ogra_> works well on mako ...
[14:07] <alf_> ricmm: so, if you disable the glReadPixels() call then everything continues to work ok (apart from getting invalid snapshots)?
[14:08] <ricmm> trying that
[14:08] <ricmm> I disabled the whole path
[14:08] <ricmm> sec
[14:13] <ricmm> alf_: yup, works fine with glReadPixels out
[14:13] <ricmm> well, not fine, but you know what I mean
[14:14] <alf_> ricmm: well, that indicates a driver issue, i.e., a glReadPixel call shouldn't mess up the system...
[14:15] <alf_> ricmm: what happens if you enable only the GL_RGBA read pixels path?
[14:20] <ricmm> alf_: still dies
[14:22] <alf_> ricmm: any errors logged after this by the driver (or does glGetError() say something)?
[14:36] <ricmm> alf_: no GL errors, no
[14:36] <ricmm> seeing something weird tho mmm
[14:36] <ricmm> sec
[15:12] <greyback> alf_: sorry this sounds stupid, but I'm confused. On my laptop (this machine, has X running), I switch to VT1, run "mir_demo_server_shell&" - the screen does not black out or anything.  There seem to be some failure modes that mess up our tear down.
[15:20] <mterry> racarr, hello!  I'm back from an American holiday and am looking again at those issues from the sprint.  Are you still focused on scenegraph?
[15:22] <greyback> alf_: even with sudo, it doesn't seem to work. mir_demo_server_shell just locks my machine, and killing it leaves it in unusable state
[15:23] <alf_> greyback: what graphics card and driver are you using?
[15:23] <greyback> alf_: intel sandybridge
[15:25] <alf_> greyback: can you try running with gdb and 'catch throw'?
[15:27] <greyback> alf_: ok.
[15:30] <ricmm> alf_: this thing is still blowing up, no GL error and nothing from the driver in logcat
[15:30] <ricmm> Tegra has a bunch of weird issues, this might be one of them
[15:30] <ricmm> I know they dont support pbuffers, do we use that anywhere in the screenshotting path?
[15:30] <ricmm> 1/10 times it works
[15:31] <tvoss> ricmm, sounds racy
[15:32] <ricmm> it does
[15:32] <alf_> ricmm: yes, on android we create a EGL pbuffer as a dummy surface for the EGL context
[15:32] <ricmm> for the shared based context?
[15:32] <ricmm> base*
[15:33] <alf_> ricmm: For all "dummy" context including the shared one so we can make them current. Can you check if "EGL_KHR_surfaceless_context" is supported?
[15:36] <alf_> ricmm: one thing you could try is to make all instances of eglMakeCurrent() in android_display.cpp take 'EGL_NO_SURFACE,EGL_NO_SURFACE' instead of the dummy egl surfaces.
[15:37] <alf_> ricmm: so basically in AndroidGLContext::make_current() and AndroidDisplay::AndroidDisplay()
[15:38] <ricmm> right, will try
[15:38] <ricmm> I think it does support surfaceless_ctx
[15:40] <alf_> ricmm: ok, if using surfaceless contexts fixes snapshotting it's an easy fix to query the extension at runtime and act accordingly.
[15:42] <kgunn> mterry: you're a bit early for racarr ...and he got sidelined by a performance regression, but he was back to working on the autopilot input bug for mir on mir
[15:44] <mterry> kgunn, early for racarr?  he lives in UK right?
[15:45] <mterry> Well, I can continue my own investigation until he can get back to me
[15:46] <ricmm> mterry: CA
[15:47] <mterry> ricmm, kgunn: aha...  For some reason my memory of the Oakland sprint was that it was in London.  Yikes...
[15:47] <ricmm> ;
[15:49] <kgunn> mterry: haha, yeah...and i'd like you and he to continue that thread
[15:49] <mterry> kgunn, yar, for sure
[15:50] <kgunn> Mirv: didrocks ...so with ci off, what's the recommended for the mir update to trunk ? manual land ? or just wait?
[15:58] <didrocks> kgunn: better to wait, as we don't have dailies as well, we can't land it
[16:01] <kgunn> didrocks: ack, thot so...just double checking
[16:02] <didrocks> kgunn: I put Mir on the first thing in the list FYI
[16:03] <ricmm> alf_: so it supports it "theoretically"
[16:03] <ricmm> but it blows up the makeCurrent
[16:03] <ricmm> so, it really doesnt :)
[16:03] <ricmm> tegra is great
[16:07] <greyback> alf_: if I ssh into a laptop, can I run mir via ssh? Must it be from a VT?
[16:08] <alf_> greyback: you just need to have a VT active and use sudo, but it should work (that's how I do it)
[16:09] <greyback> alf_: yeah. It used to work for me a few months back too
[16:09] <greyback> sorry, "it" = running from VT. Running from ssh I didn't think would work either
[16:11] <alf_> ricmm: I just saw that in android_display.cpp we are requesting a config with just EGL_WINDOW_BIT (no EGL_PBUFFER_BIT). What happens if you add EGL_PBUFFER_BIT (EGL_WINDOW_BIT|EGL_PBUFFER_BIT) ?
[16:19] <alan_g> greyback: if you're running from ssh you need to specify --vt
[16:20] <kdub> ricmm, alf_ so we're thinking that the nexus 7 doesnt support pbuffers?
[16:22] <ricmm> whats the best way to confirm that? this comes from reading somewhere a comment that said tegra doesnt play nice with pbuffers
[16:22] <ricmm> but I cant find the wording in any official doc
[16:22] <ricmm> it certainly doesnt support EGL_KHR_surfaceless_context
[16:27] <kdub> i think checking that the config has EGL_PBUFFER_BIT is good... i'll try
[16:29] <ricmm> kdub: hmm tried here
[16:29] <ricmm> worked the first attempt but exploded with the second app
[16:29] <ricmm> checking again
[17:25] <kdub> alf_, with the screenshotting, should we be using the OES functions? o.O
[17:25] <kdub> like, glBindFramebufferOES
[17:28] <alf_> kdub: In OpenGL ES 2.0 the framebuffer extensions was merged into core so the suffix was dropped
[17:29] <kdub> ah, i kinda felt i was missing a data point like that
[17:30] <kdub> i just saw sf using all these OES functions to do screencap, but since they were merged, that should be fine
[17:35] <alf_> kdub: 18:11 < alf_> ricmm: I just saw that in android_display.cpp we are requesting a config with just EGL_WINDOW_BIT (no EGL_PBUFFER_BIT). What happens if you add EGL_PBUFFER_BIT (EGL_WINDOW_BIT|EGL_PBUFFER_BIT) ?
[17:35] <alf_> kdub: since we are creating pbuffers with this config we should ensure we choose a config with EGL_PBUFFER_BIT
[17:36] <alf_> kdub: (not sure if it is related with what ricmm is seeing)
[17:36]  * kdub is still trying to configure unity-mir but
[17:36] <kdub> ricmm said that didn't help
[17:37] <ricmm> doesnt help
[17:37] <ricmm> and thats generic enough, it would blow up in other cases
[17:37] <ricmm> this is a tegra-specific thing that has to do with the way we take the screenshot
[17:37] <ricmm> works for SF, not for us
[18:29] <racarr> microusb bit the dust
[18:29] <racarr> brb
[20:10] <kgunn> racarr: ping
[20:12] <kgunn> racarr: was just trying to run the egltriangle demo client per the instructions http://unity.ubuntu.com/mir/using_mir_on_pc.html
[20:12] <kgunn> racarr: but remembered we moved the mir socket...not sure how to now
[20:13] <kgunn> racarr: oops....nvmd....i just didn't sudo
[20:18] <racarr> kgunn: :)
[20:29] <kdub> what is up with jenkins? i noticed nothing was landing yesterday, but today, everything has landed from yesterday
[23:06] <xnox> it's been down, due to DC move.
[23:06] <xnox> not sure if it's fully up to speed yet.


[07:11] <DanChapman> Good morning all
[13:44] <elfy> balloons: now it's Monday ... can we get http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/admin/config/services/qatracker/testsuites/364/ available here please http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/300/builds
[13:44] <elfy> also - we've got this oddity with archived testcases in packages that I can't see how to deal with
[13:56] <lderan> balloons: i hear there is something that I maybe able to help with, with linking the qatracker and LP with its api.
[15:23] <balloons> elfy, yes now that it's monday, hah, what are we looking at?
[15:24] <elfy> first - easy one
[15:24] <elfy> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/300/builds
[15:24] <balloons> I see common settings testsuite
[15:24] <balloons> ohh
[15:24] <elfy> can it be added to the front page?
[15:25] <balloons> elfy, what do you mean added to the front page?
[15:25] <elfy> so it shows http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/300/builds
[15:26] <balloons> elfy, http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/ shows saucy daily.. I'm confused
[15:27] <elfy> balloons: 2 secs - picture paints ...
[15:28] <elfy> balloons: can we have the common settings on here http://imagebin.org/267283
[15:28] <elfy> we have common desktop - but not settings
[15:29] <balloons> elfy, http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/admin/config/services/qatracker/products/335/testsuites
[15:29] <elfy> I can do xubuntu stuff - not seeing how to add that common desktop though
[15:29] <balloons> elfy, can you access that page/
[15:29] <balloons> ?
[15:29] <elfy> sorry - yea I can
[15:29] <balloons> no worrie
[15:30] <elfy> ok
[15:30] <elfy> was getting ocnfused - I knew I could add it to xubuntu testcases
[15:30] <elfy> just wondered why it's not on the 'front' like common desktop
[15:31] <balloons> ohh under common?
[15:31] <elfy> for everyone
[15:31] <balloons> this page? http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/300/builds/50385/testcases
[15:32] <elfy> guess so
[15:33] <balloons> done, it's added
[15:33] <balloons> ty
[15:33] <elfy> ok
[15:33] <elfy> thanks
[15:35] <elfy> right - that's good - removed the common stuff from xubuntu now
[15:35] <balloons> kk
[15:35] <elfy> balloons: the other issue is really making me pull my hair out though - http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/300/builds/50384/testcases
[15:36] <elfy> the top 5 in the xfce settings manager tests are all set archived?
[15:40] <balloons> elfy, this I do remember
[15:40] <elfy> lol
[15:46]  * elfy thinks the silence is ominous
[15:48] <balloons> it is
[15:51] <DanChapman> afternoon balloons, elfy :-)
[15:51] <elfy> hi DanChapman
[15:51] <balloons> DanChapman, afternoon
[15:52] <balloons> so elfy I didn't know why on sat, I still don't
[15:52] <elfy> odd
[15:53]  * elfy wonders what would happen if I removed the 5 and added them again
[15:53] <balloons> let's see one thin
[15:55] <balloons> well elfy I mean we're going to increment them  potentially for the next cadence week.. it's an open question
[15:56] <balloons> the archived or not results is not controlled on a testcase level
[15:56] <balloons> that's the wild thing
[15:56] <balloons> maybe we should have stgraber have a look
[15:56] <balloons> before we do anything further
[15:57] <elfy> ok
[15:59] <balloons> stgraber, so this testcase is in an open milestone, yet shows up as archived: http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/300/builds/50384/testcases/1586/results. If you look at the entire testsuite,  http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/300/builds/50384/testcases you can see the first 5 testcases are all archived.
[15:59] <elfy> balloons: given our number of testers we're wanting to run our testcases for longer - in fact just as they are on the daily - so that people can pick them off
[15:59] <balloons> stgraber, the rest of the testsuite is accepting results like normal
[15:59] <elfy> effectively if we can get a couple of results for each one we'll be in a better place than we are now
[16:00] <balloons> elfy, I'm thinking we should leave them as-is as well.. perhaps we can consider a new milestone for final beta and then leave that through the rc's and final testing?
[16:01] <elfy> balloons: - this is what we atold/sked our testers "We would like to get one complete set of test results in before Beta 1 which is due on 29th August. However, if you have time and a test has already been run, don't be afraid to run the test – all results are welcome! After we have Beta 1 released, we would like to see a further test run between Beta 1 and Final Beta on the 22nd September."
[16:03] <balloons> elfy, I think that lines up pretty well with what I was thinking.. a reset between the alpha stuff and the beta/final stuff
[16:04] <elfy> yep
[16:04] <elfy> well thanks for looking at that oddness - I'll watch for a reply
[16:04] <balloons> elfy, sure thing
[16:04] <balloons> good eye for noticing, heh
[16:05] <elfy> someone was trying to report a result :(
[16:05] <elfy> they pointed me at it on saturday
[16:36] <balloons> elopio, I saw popover landed. I'll get the docs page updated
[16:42] <elopio> balloons: cool.
[16:43] <elopio> balloons: I saw a reply on the bug about the objectName on the popover actions, but I haven't been able to check that.
[16:43] <balloons> elopio, yea, same here..
[16:44] <elopio> if you see somebody using the popover, please tell him to notice that the click_by_text method will probably be deprecated.
[16:44] <balloons> well, I'm thinking of keeping the local versions I put in in place until the click by text dies
[16:44] <balloons> then i'll move them to the sdk
[17:37]  * pinky is away: Away
[18:11] <DanChapman> wow its quiet today
[18:12] <balloons> elfy put out a stumper and quieted the whole channel DanChapman :-)
[18:12] <DanChapman> :-) lol
[18:15] <balloons> DanChapman, I'm actually doing a conversion to the emulator for the rss reader and trying to land carla's changes
[18:16] <balloons> I haven't looked this morning at ubiquity -- any happy news?
[18:16] <elfy> I sowwy :(
[18:16]  * balloons looks
[18:17] <balloons> nice, the trend is sane again :-)
[18:18] <DanChapman> balloons, yeah well its kinda working some minor timing issues which the next run should be fixed. But still some odd beviour with the testbed. for instance the lvm_encrypt on the amd64 run is using the old test before xnox's fix which is strange
[18:18] <balloons> only on the amd64 run tho?
[18:18] <DanChapman> balloons, yeah the i386 is all running the latest now
[18:19] <balloons> that explains things then
[18:19] <DanChapman> jibel said he will take a look when he gets a chance
[18:19] <balloons> i wondered why amd64 was all bent out of shape
[18:19] <m-b-o> ballons: I've updated the MP
[18:20] <DanChapman> balloons, yeah its mighty strange how the session log says it pulled my branch but autopilot is complaining about something that isn't even there :-)
[18:20] <DanChapman> but hey at least we got some blues now :-)
[18:21] <DanChapman> balloons, also the gedit test is coming along now nearly 50 tests and still plenty more to do :-D
[18:22] <balloons> m-b-o, excellent!
[18:22] <balloons> DanChapman, I'm super psyched about the gedit test
[18:24] <balloons> DanChapman, I know your jenkins woes all to well my friend. Sometimes we're being silly, sometimes it's the tool. but it will only do what we tell it
[18:25] <DanChapman> balloons, yeah i didn't realise how much tweaking would be needed once it gets run on there. It runs perfect on my machine everytime before i push it and then it dnt work! grrr.... all good fun though
[18:27] <DanChapman> balloons, I cam across this last week. http://ubuntuone.com/2KQs94muGQtGIBXnxX8vmb you've probably seen it before but it gives a nice view on testing software
[18:28] <balloons> DanChapman, no I hadn't seen that
[18:29] <m-b-o> balloons: when will the next smoke test run?
[18:31] <DanChapman> balloons, its quite an interesting read :-)
[18:31] <balloons> m-b-o, they run everyday. So you upped the timeout's and added your network asserts yes?
[18:32] <m-b-o> yes, approved it by myself ;)
[18:32] <balloons> m-b-o, :-)
[18:32] <m-b-o> balloons: when there's no connection we will see
[18:32] <balloons> m-b-o, perfect.. that should be very helpful
[18:33] <m-b-o> balloons: I'm really curious to find out
[18:34] <balloons> plars, well, let's wait for it to build and I'll see if I can get plars to kick off a job just for us :-)
[18:34] <balloons> m-b-o, ^^
[18:34] <m-b-o> :)
[18:34] <balloons> hehe.. plars on the brain
[18:35] <plars> :)
[18:36] <balloons> m-b-o, this is the build https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/+archive/daily/+build/4871250
[18:37] <m-b-o> balloons: cool, thanks! :)
[18:37] <balloons> ty
[18:48] <Letozaf_> balloons, Hello, buonasera
[18:48] <balloons> Letozaf_, howdy
[18:48] <Letozaf_> balloons, :) I have worked on the calendar app and the rssreader one
[18:49] <balloons> Letozaf_, ohh.. what's up on rssreader?
[18:49] <balloons> Letozaf_, I worked to convert your old branch to the new emulator.. I'd love to do the same with an updated one :-)
[18:49] <Letozaf_> balloons, well I fixed it as they made quite a lot changes to it since I wrote the autopilot tests
[18:49] <Letozaf_> balloons, oh! fine, I can push it
[18:50] <Letozaf_> balloons, but there is no way to remove a topic at the moment :)
[18:50] <balloons> Letozaf_, and I'm happy to hear about calendar too.. excellent.. productive weekend eh?
[18:50] <balloons> Letozaf_, we can note it as a bug.. rss reader definitely has bugs.. so we'll try and note them ;-)
[18:50] <Letozaf_> balloons, yeah but for the calendar app need help on one thing :p
[18:50] <balloons> I can convert the calendar app to the sdk also
[18:51] <Letozaf_> balloons, good
[18:51] <Letozaf_> balloons, do you want me to push what I did till now
[18:51] <Letozaf_> balloons, so you can see what I did ?
[18:54] <balloons> Letozaf_, go for it
[18:54] <Letozaf_> balloons, shall I push the changes to the same branches I had before ? is it ok ?
[18:55] <balloons> Letozaf_, that's just fine
[18:55] <Letozaf_> balloons, ok, just a minute and I will do it
[18:55] <balloons> I've been working off the lp:~carla-sella/ubuntu-rssreader-app/view-feeds-test
[18:57] <Letozaf_> balloons, I just pushed the rssreader app tests to https://code.launchpad.net/~carla-sella/ubuntu-rssreader-app/view-feeds-test
[18:58] <Letozaf_> balloons, so that looks right :)
[18:58] <Letozaf_> balloons, I think removing topic is missing
[18:58] <balloons> Letozaf_, kk
[18:58] <Letozaf_> balloons, cannot find how to with the last changes they made
[18:58] <Letozaf_> balloons, so that test is incomplete
[18:59] <Letozaf_> balloons, I will now push the calendar app tests to https://code.launchpad.net/~carla-sella/ubuntu-calendar-app/calendar-app but can I do it if this is merged ?
[19:00] <balloons> Letozaf_, you can
[19:00] <Letozaf_> balloons, ok
[19:00] <balloons> you can merge the same branch again :-)
[19:02] <Letozaf_> balloons, ok did it I also pushed the calendar app tests
[19:02] <Letozaf_> balloons, this one needs fixing when I change the new event start and end time :p
[19:02] <Letozaf_> balloons, need help here :p
[19:02] <balloons> Letozaf_, ok
[19:02] <balloons> merging the rss branch now
[19:06] <balloons> my changes are in here: lp:~nskaggs/ubuntu-rssreader-app/convert-tests-to-sdk
[19:06] <balloons> I think I might just pull your branch and redo it
[19:06] <DanChapman> see you all tomorrow folks :-)
[19:06] <balloons> the conversion that is
[19:06] <balloons> DanChapman, peace out :-p
[19:06] <DanChapman> lol
[19:06] <balloons> lol.. I love world culture
[19:07] <Letozaf_> DanChapman, bye
[19:09] <Letozaf_> balloons, ok! oh, another test needs fixing (rssreader) the view feeds, one they changed things also there, I was about to work on it
[19:09] <balloons> ok Letozaf_ I grabbed trunk for rssreader, and then merged your branch into
[19:10] <balloons> it doesn't work out of the box.. should it?
[19:10] <balloons> Letozaf_, ahh lol
[19:10] <balloons> yes, no more all feed view
[19:10] <Letozaf_> balloons, try the add and remove topic and feed one
[19:10] <Letozaf_> balloons, that works fine
[19:10] <balloons> error line 163    self.assertThat(canonicalFeed.text, Eventually(Equals("Canonical"))) AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'text'
[19:11] <Letozaf_> balloons, :(
[19:11] <Letozaf_> balloons, let me try, it worked yesterday
[19:11] <balloons> Letozaf_, well I merged with upstream code
[19:11] <balloons> they may have tweaked things again.. that's why this needs to get into there codebase, so when they merge they can't break it!
[19:12] <Letozaf_> balloons, it also happens to me, but I'm quite sure yesterday it didn't :P
[19:13] <Letozaf_> balloons, shall I wait for you to convert the test to sdk before working on it or what ?
[19:13] <balloons> probably a quick fix, I'll let you do that while I redo the conversion quick
[19:13] <balloons> no no go ahead
[19:13] <Letozaf_> balloons, ok
[19:22] <Letozaf_> balloons, its "only" a timing issue... have to add another assert  there...
[19:23] <balloons> Letozaf_, ohh.. that's an easy fix then
[19:23] <Letozaf_> balloons, sure :p
[19:44] <Letozaf_> balloons, it's working now, do you want me to push the changes ? (I mean I fixed the error on line 163)
[19:44] <balloons> go for it Letozaf_ :-
[19:46] <phillw> balloons: have you had chance to think how to tie in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Drinking%20our%20own%20champagne (suitably renamed) into our area?
[19:46] <Letozaf_> balloons, ok pushed the change
[19:46] <balloons> phillw, ohh you even have a icon ;)
[19:46] <balloons> phillw, I'd like to it be a part of the first steps
[19:47] <phillw> balloons: arrived earlier today :D Rafael was set the task, hope you like it!
[19:47] <balloons> I do :-
[19:48] <phillw> on the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities area, or some where else?
[19:48] <balloons> phillw, it can be there, but I would like a nicer onboarding that includes this. In other words, join the list, join the group, then install a development version of ubuntu
[19:49] <balloons> we're missing that last step in some ways.. it's kind of implied, but I'd like to make it more prominent and to the point.. install the dev version, here's why, and here's what you can do with it
[19:49] <balloons> vm or real hw, install it ;-0
[19:50] <phillw> it will be some where near to the section of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities#I_want_to_help_test
[19:50] <phillw> I'll have a look in, give you a shout in a while.
[19:51] <balloons> kk, that make sense? so there should be a link from the main page as well.. a link to something that gets you to arrive at your page :-)
[19:55] <balloons> Letozaf_, sorry I'm tied up in a meeting for a few, so I got stuck on my work.. what do you need help on with calendar? I can do the conversion work on the working tests :-)
[19:58] <Letozaf_> balloons, it's when I try to change the new event start and stop time
[19:59] <balloons> Letozaf_, ahh, are you having trouble interacting with the objects?
[19:59] <Letozaf_> balloons, cannot stop the time picker on the hour or minute I want to chose
[19:59] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes
[19:59] <Letozaf_> balloons, I can drag the hour and minute chooser, but cannot stop it
[20:00] <Letozaf_> balloons, more or less lin 84
[20:00] <Letozaf_> sorry line 84 in the test
[20:01] <Letozaf_> balloons, I would like to be able to change the hour bye one hour at a time and not let it roll over to whatever time it wants on it's own
[20:03] <balloons> gotcha. So when you interact it rolls past the time.. I'll have to run it
[20:03] <Letozaf_> balloons, it just rolls :p
[20:04] <balloons> kk.. so I can look at that in a few
[20:04] <Letozaf_> balloons, if you can otherwise I will wait and carry on with the rssreader app
[20:07] <balloons> Letozaf_, ah-hah I see :-)
[20:18] <phillw> balloons: as I see it, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Testing_The_Devlopment_Release and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Drinking%20our%20own%20champagne are tied that closely, they may as well be merged into one page?
[20:20] <balloons> Letozaf_, so it works, that's cool.. we can work on selecting a proper time as the next step.. iterate iterate
[20:22] <balloons> phillw, yes, exactly.. Lump that into a nice logical page.. 3 parts: linking to the technical bits of getting a development version of ubuntu for yourself going, the drinking your own champagne stuff on (aka, the why we do it), and the last bits about "what" to do.
[20:22] <balloons> perhaps a general section on where to learn more for the classroom related stuff
[20:23] <Letozaf_> balloons, so is it ok as it is for now ? really ?
[20:23] <balloons> Letozaf_, one step at a time for me.. it does test.. my biggest piece is I REALLY want to land the rss reader test, as it has nothing
[20:23] <balloons> but the calendar test, as you wrote it, yes I would merge it
[20:24] <balloons> and plan to enhance it to test specific times
[20:24] <Letozaf_> balloons, ok fine :p
[20:29] <balloons> ok, all done ;-)
[20:34] <Letozaf_> balloons, so I will propose a merge for the calendar app ?
[20:36] <balloons> Letozaf_, yea, go for it :-) We'll just have to make sure it runs wells on the device, which I can do
[20:38] <Letozaf_> balloons, ok done!
[20:38] <melodie> hi
[20:40] <phillw> hi melodie welcome to #ubuntu-quality. to every one, melodie is a newish lubuntu-qa person, will have questions to ask. melodie I assure you that there are no dumb questions, read through our https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities area and SCREAM at me or balloons if the questions you have are not answered!
[20:40] <melodie> thank you very much
[20:41] <melodie> I'll add this one chan to my favorites and ask some basic questions as time goes
[20:41] <knome> i assure there are dumb questions - the unasked ones
[20:41] <melodie> is there any chance that there are there people here you are the ones working on the zram thing?
[20:42] <phillw> melodie: I'm one of the wiki guys working on the area, we do need people like you to do as knome asks... Let us know the un asked ones.
[20:42] <balloons> zram is fun :-) but no I'm not working on ti :-)
[20:43] <phillw> melodie: zram is mainly a lubuntu thing. Ask on L-QA about that.
[20:43] <melodie> on the list then
[20:43] <knome> melodie, balloons is the one with lots of typos - feel free to point out his false spelling ;)
[20:43] <melodie> ok
[20:44] <melodie> I take notes, and probably introduce myself shortly on the mailing list before starting to post. about zram I have seen an interesting thread
[20:45] <balloons> knome, <3
[20:45] <knome> balloons, <3
[20:45] <melodie> I have been working on a Openbox only Ubuntu remix project for months now and I am not a coder, which makes it a bit difficult but not uninteresting, and I have modified the default files for the system to accept zram working on machines having above 512 MB :p
[20:45] <phillw> melodie: for zram, use the L-QA area and also look in the archives. but applying for membership here and joining the mailing list is also a good move :)
[20:46] <melodie> I also have received nice help and tips from gilir and knowing that now lubuntu will use zram as default has motivated me a lot to join the testing
[20:47] <melodie> phillw I'm not sure if I need to apply for membership here or if coming to the chan will be enough, I'll do if needed
[20:49] <phillw> melodie: gilir is the head of dev for lubuntu, I also keep in touch with him. If you are wanting to learn more about testing, then I would strongly suggest that you do. some of the emails may be 'over your head' in the early days, but you can get an overview of what QA is all about & then look up the areas you do not know about yet.
[20:50] <melodie> sure this is what I want to do
[20:50] <melodie> one of my questions will be how to use the test cases for instance (but not know, it's late here and I am being tired)
[20:51] <melodie> I'll just test gently, with one method (vbox) then the other (an IBM laptop P4 T30 with 1 Gb ram I have)
[20:51] <phillw> melodie: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam#Joining
[20:51] <melodie> and try to use the right methods with zsync and such
[20:52] <melodie> thank you, I'll keep the link to that page in my LubuntuSaucyTesting folder
[20:52] <melodie> until I can read it quietly and completely
[20:53] <phillw> melodie: we have archived classroom sessions for vbox etc... head over to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy
[20:53] <melodie> phillw I know gilir is the head of the lubuntu dev, and he has been very nice to help me. So what I have learned while building this Ubuntu Openbox is something where there are parts I can probably share for the benefit of Lubuntu which I appreciate a lot
[20:54] <phillw> melodie: the easiest link to bookmark for you is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/
[20:55] <melodie> I don't bookmark anymore, my bookmarks used to look like a mess, I create a desktop file which I can click on to open the one desired page :)
[20:55] <melodie> well I bookmark sometimes, but only for fast reuse, these ones I'll probably visit several times to get the information I need
[20:58] <melodie> there is something I have been amazed a few months ago, I had reported a bug against the zram-config package because the default setup says it will not be started in the Live if the machine has over 512 MB ram, and I think this is a big mistake. Having used zram for many years now, I feel it good to have at least up to 2 GB ram, depending on which desktop is used.
[20:59] <melodie> Unity really does need 2GB, under this amount ram I have felt it was sluggish
[20:59] <melodie> and after I have posted the bug report, maybe one or two days later : not a bug ! rejected with no explation and removed at once !
[21:00] <melodie> it was not a simple one, I had worked on it
[21:00] <knome> unity being slow is not a bug, it's a feature
[21:00]  * knome hides
[21:00] <melodie> :)
[21:01] <melodie> in a Live, having zram working up to 2 GB ram would be much better than limiting it to 512 MB : for all versions.
[21:01] <balloons> unity 8 helps out there :-)
[21:01] <knome> balloons, disclaimer: i haven't used unity, ever :P
[21:02] <balloons> I'm just teasing back
[21:02] <balloons> yes it requires more resources, of course :-)
[21:02] <knome> did you mean windows 8 helps with the unity slowness?
[21:02] <knome> why waste anything? i have 8GB of RAM on desktop and 6GB on laptop, but i run xfce..
[21:03] <balloons> I mean unity-next
[21:03] <knome> did you mean: windows XP?
[21:03] <melodie> and also cutting the available ram in 2 to fix the size of the block device is not the perfect method for in old machines with small amounts of cpu and ram 1/4th, as advised by the developer of the compcache project has always provided good results in all tests I did and had people do on remixes I did in the paste
[21:03] <melodie> (in another distro previously also, with Openbox too)
[21:06] <knome> i think balloons went sobbing in the corner
[21:06] <knome> i win!
[21:07] <melodie> knome what do you win?
[21:07] <knome> melodie, the teasing competition ;)
[21:07] <melodie> knome I suspect you use Xfce because you used to love Gnome2 ;)
[21:08] <knome> i used to *use* gnome 2, but i didn't feel completely at home with it
[21:08] <melodie> have you been at a forum having for name "linuxgator" at some time?
[21:08] <knome> melodie, nope
[21:09] <melodie> ok, someone else using a nick looking like your's then
[21:09] <knome> also, i've used xfce since 2007
[21:09] <melodie> ok
[21:09] <melodie> do you install it on a minimal ubuntu or do you install Xubuntu directly?
[21:10] <knome> i just go for the xubuntu installation, most of the things are good for me in that
[21:10] <Noskcaj> On a related topic, testdrive finally has support for 2GB of RAM. All thanks to the worst hackfest ever run
[21:10] <melodie> I could present you a configuration I did once to make it look like gnome2
[21:10] <knome> (some of that is explained by the fact that i'm the current xubuntu project lead...)
[21:10] <melodie> if you don't mind of course
[21:11] <melodie> knome congratulations!
[21:11] <knome> you could send it to http://xubuntu-showcase.deviantart.com/
[21:11] <melodie> no
[21:11] <melodie> I can't
[21:11] <knome> i use *very* minimalistic setups myself
[21:11] <melodie> I have used a background already existing
[21:11] <melodie> but I have arranged it to be present in the whole system
[21:12] <melodie> http://meets.free.fr/Downloads/Screenshots/xubuntu-brown.png
[21:12] <knome> aha
[21:12] <melodie> and the full theme in a tree directory here: http://meets.free.fr/Downloads/XubuntuBrownTheme/
[21:12] <phillw> knome: lubuntu are the only DE to use zram as default.
[21:12] <melodie> with the setup of the panel too
[21:12] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/other/laptop_screenshot.png and http://temp.knome.fi/other/desktop_screenshot.png
[21:13] <melodie> phillw Ubuntu Openbox Remix does it
[21:13] <melodie> but of course its not an official branding as Lubuntu is ;-)
[21:13] <phillw> melodie: it is not an adopted flavour.... We do have fun with the differences :)
[21:13] <melodie> so you might say "the only official version"
[21:13] <phillw> melodie: correct :D
[21:14] <melodie> :)
[21:14] <melodie> Madbox also uses zram, but is not continuued
[21:15] <melodie> ok, good night
[21:15] <melodie> :)
[22:09] <balloons> Noskcaj, ping
[22:11] <Noskcaj> balloons, i'm here for the next 10 minutes
[22:12] <balloons> Noskcaj, I'll be quick :-) Do you have that list of testdrive hackables in bug reports for testdrive? I was hoping to get them all as bug reports and add a tag to them so people new to testdrive coding could hack on them.
[22:12] <balloons> I want to use that in a new campaign to help people get involved, but I want to make sure the todo items are in place
[22:12] <Noskcaj> balloons, All but one or two are. e.g. fix the documentation for testdrive
[22:13] <Noskcaj> good idea btw
[22:13] <balloons> Noskcaj, great.. when you get time, add a tag and the missing ones and just let me know
[22:13] <Noskcaj> ok. I'll be trying to get testdrive into debian this week, i think we're finally ready for that
[22:13] <balloons> ohh, nice!
[22:18] <Noskcaj> what's the tag going to be? also, maybe we make a ubuntu-QA bugs team, for notifications for all the QA team maintained packages?
[22:18] <balloons> Noskcaj, you could just use 'todo'
[22:18] <balloons> Noskcaj, I'm intrigued, tell me more
[22:19] <Noskcaj> balloons, Similar to the xubuntu-bugs team, which just sends you a notification every time a relevant bug is edited or made
[22:19] <Noskcaj> i have to go to school now, bye
[22:20] <balloons> Noskcaj, bye.. mention it to me again, as to what all it would include
[22:20] <balloons> we'll talk later
[22:21] <Noskcaj> tstdrive, the testcases, and other tools we use, the QA website
[22:41] <melodie> hi
[22:41] <melodie> coming by just for a typo here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cadence
[22:41] <melodie> s/and execute the testcases for the iso and report there results to the tracker. /and execute the testcases for the iso and report their results to the tracker.
[22:41] <melodie> their results and not there results
[22:45] <melodie> another typo can be noticed here:
[22:45] <melodie> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Hardware
[22:46] <melodie> in this title: "How to generate and store a weblink of your computer's specications"
[22:46] <melodie> specification and not specications, of course
[22:49] <melodie> gn now


[08:52] <Riddell> xnox: I uploaded (2.18.8) trusty-proposed with the crash fix, then did a no change upload as (2.18.9) utopic but cjwatson rejected 2.18.9 so I uncommitted that change
[12:27] <xnox> Riddell: ack.
[21:03] <torbock> Hi all, would anyone be able to offer any ideas how I could accomplish this (using pxe+netboot+d-i and not install ubuntu-standard) https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-installer/2009-August/000468.html
[21:04] <torbock> if not possible via scripting, where might I find the necessary bits to modify to build my own initrd ?


[08:00] <oSoMoN> good morning
[08:02] <Laney> hey
[08:06] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:07] <davmor2> Laney: any idea when there will be iso images for AA
[08:07] <Laney> wasn't aware there wasn't tbh
[08:07] <Laney> not that I've tried
[08:08] <Laney> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/daily-live/pending/ looks ok to me
[08:11] <duflu> davmor2: They work too (I just installed). But expect Unity7 still
[08:12] <duflu> Also the installer icon on the desktop fails - you can find it in the dash
[08:12] <duflu> instead
[08:13] <davmor2> Laney: yes that's not released, released would be in current. Pending is like something in proposed
[08:13] <Laney> I...
[08:13] <Laney> I...
[08:13] <Laney> I know...
[08:13] <Laney> Your question was "when there will be iso images"
[08:13] <duflu> I thought pending meant just pending testing(?)
[08:13] <Laney> it wasn't "why aren't there iso images in current?"
[08:14] <davmor2> duflu: yes the same as proposed
[08:15] <duflu> Kind of... except I also thought that yesterday's pending can be today's 'current' and plenty of stuff in proposed is not installed by default still
[08:15] <duflu> So not related to 'proposed' ?
[08:16] <Laney> It's not related to artful-proposed
[08:16] <Laney> It's just some smoke tests that are run on the images and probably need to be configured for artful still
[08:16] <davmor2> duflu: yes only the yesterdays is todays current bit isn't happening :D
[08:16] <duflu> Well, for most of the year (fingers crossed)
[08:53] <davmor2> Laney: do you know how the transition from unity → gnome will happen?
[08:56] <Laney> ubuntu-desktop will be updated and it will install gnome instead of unity
[09:28] <davmor2> Laney: right but would that happen on upgrades too or just fresh installs, I ask because it isn't how it has happened in the past and was checking on the expected behaviour so I can test for it later
[09:33] <Laney> davmor2: yes upgrades too
[09:34] <Laney> it's sort of open what settings will be migrated and stuff though
[09:39] <davmor2> Laney: right so at the package level it'll be a gnome-x replaces unity-x and so on right rather than what we have done in the past which was to additionally install gnome-x along side unity-x right?
[09:48] <Laney> davmor2: It won't uninstall packages off your system if that's what you are asking
[09:48] <davmor2> Laney: right so people would still be logging into unity by default then
[09:51] <Laney> I don't know what you're trying to get out of me
[09:51] <Laney> No
[09:52] <davmor2> Laney: I'm trying to gauge what would happen on upgrade from 16.04.x to 18.04 and 17.04 to 17.10 so that I can confirm the expected happens basically :)
[09:52] <Laney> I would expect some kind of transition from Unity sessions to GNOME Shell sessions
[09:54] <Laney> it's possible that people will still be able to use Unity but I think that will have to be an explicit choice to go back
[09:54] <davmor2> Laney: right thanks
[09:56] <Laney> maybe at the very start it'll be a bit rough :)
[09:56] <Laney> I think Ken's going to do the initial bit of work there
[09:56] <Laney> (sorry if I made that up)
[10:43]  * Laney sucks at cdbs
[10:46] <jbicha> Laney: good morning
[10:46] <jbicha> just convert it to dh ;)
[10:47] <jbicha> so, gnome-terminal fails to build because no one submitted Unity7 to https://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apb.html
[10:47] <Laney> not really something that I maintain
[10:48] <jbicha> and 'make check' runs desktop-file-validate https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-terminal/ubuntu/view/head:/debian/patches/01_onlyshowin.patch
[10:48] <Laney> are you sure about that? https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97947
[10:48] <ubot5`> Freedesktop bug 97947 in general "validate: Add Unity7 and Unity8" [Normal,New]
[10:49] <jbicha> can we get allison[m] to approve that?
[10:50] <Laney> Just make it say Unity
[10:50] <Laney> The 7/8 thing isn't the relevant any mroe
[10:50] <Laney> s/the/that/
[10:51] <jbicha> ok, gnome-terminal doesn't run on Unity8 but whatever
[10:52] <Laney> if it turns out Unity 8 gets maintained then we can think about this kind of thing again
[10:53] <Laney> but I wouldn't waste time on it atm
[10:53] <jbicha> makes sense
[10:57] <jbicha> are you going to sync the other gstreamer universe pkgs? https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?email=pkg-gstreamer-maintainers%40lists.alioth.debian.org
[10:58] <Laney> I think I need to do python and editing something and rtsp
[11:00] <andyrock> good morning
[11:08] <jbicha> by the way, do-release-upgrade asked me if I wanted to remove obsolete pkgs for artful upgrade; unity8 was part of the obsolete pkgs
[11:10] <Laney> good
[11:11] <jbicha> so many people upgrading may get Unity removed (I'm guessing if they manually installed some indicator or something that wanted Unity the removal might not happen though)
[12:30] <mitya57> Laney, hi, what’s the status of https://code.launchpad.net/~malaperle/ubuntu-themes/ubuntu-themes/+merge/294568 ? Should I include it in my ubuntu-themes landing?
[12:32] <Laney> mitya57: evidently not uploaded, so feel free
[12:33] <Laney> I thought it was though
[12:33] <Laney> so maybe check?
[12:35] <mitya57> Oh right, it was merged
[12:35] <Laney> dunno why the mp isn't marked as so
[13:25] <Trevinho> hey guys
[13:26] <Trevinho> kenvandine: I fixed the issue with shadows and resizing in GS..
[13:26] <kenvandine> Trevinho, woot!
[13:26] <Trevinho> I need to cover other cases tho, so I've not a MP ready yet
[13:26] <kenvandine> Trevinho, what was it?
[13:27] <Trevinho> kenvandine: 'decoration' class had to set the margin (and the border-radious to get rid of the corners) too.
[13:27] <kenvandine> Trevinho, cool, let me know when you have an MP ready
[13:27] <kenvandine> Trevinho, and thanks!
[13:28] <Trevinho> kenvandine: sure
[13:28] <Trevinho> kenvandine: for now you can just have the fix with
[13:28] <Trevinho> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24505169/
[13:32] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Any chance you can sponsor the gnome-user-docs patch? Since you subscribed to the bug report, I haven't (yet) subscribed ubuntu-sponsors.
[13:36] <jbicha> GunnarHj: I'm already looking at it :)
[13:36] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Cool, thanks!
[14:02] <oSoMoN> qengho, hey, not sure if you saw my question last week about chromium translations?
[14:02] <oSoMoN> I was wondering whether https://translations.launchpad.net/chromium-browser/translations/+templates is still in use?
[14:51] <qengho> oSoMoN: I have some tools to construct debian patches to apply Launchpad translations, but they're not well tested.
[14:52] <qengho> oSoMoN: Upstream doesn't carry any translations from Launchpad.
[15:03] <oSoMoN> qengho, and what about desktop file translations? if we were to update the strings in the desktop file (see bug #1668730), how do we go about updating the template, and then the actual translations in the desktop file, is there a tool for that?
[15:03] <ubot5`> bug 1668730 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "Tweak .desktop Actions for more consistency" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1668730
[15:05] <qengho> oSoMoN: I don't know of a tool for desktop file, but there may be a generic one.
[15:06]  * qengho brb
[15:27] <Laney> plars: any chance you could review https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/utah/skip-wubi-more/+merge/323328 please?
[15:29] <plars> Laney: I'm not a utah guru, and I don't really have a good way to test it but I can sanity check and ack if that's all you need?
[15:30] <Laney> plars: if it gets merged that's what I need
[15:30] <plars> Laney: done!
[15:30] <Laney> thanks :D
[15:31] <Laney> now... hope the smoke tests run from the branch
[15:31] <plars> Laney: I have no idea if someone has it setup with tarmac, so let me know if I need to manually merge it or something
[15:33] <xnox> plars, to be honest that python script is fairly stand alone. I believe i did run it just against the iso, sans any utah-voodo
[15:33] <Laney> don't see any bot comments on recent MPs
[15:33] <xnox> plars, it looks like it's manual push thing.
[15:34] <Laney> so no tarmac AFAICT
[15:34] <plars> :(
[15:36] <Laney> then xnox can kick the job again
[15:41] <oSoMoN> qengho, I take it from your previous comment about upstream that http://davidplanella.org/chromium-opens-to-community-translations-in-launchpad/ is no longer a thing?
[15:43] <plars> Laney: xnox: pushed to trunk
[15:45] <Laney> plars: cheers
[15:46] <plars> happy to help
[15:47] <Laney> now if only I had powers on platform-qa-jenkins O:)
[15:48] <xnox> Laney, to be honest, we need to sort that out.
[15:48] <xnox> Laney, i want more admin admin rights there, to grant other people rights.
[15:49] <Laney> go forth and seek them out
[15:49] <xnox> triggered https://platform-qa-jenkins.ubuntu.com/view/desktop/job/ubuntu-artful-desktop-amd64-iso-static-validation/
[15:49] <Laney> looks bad
[15:51] <qengho> oSoMoN: Correct. Chromium has professional translators, and were always a bit hostile to translation contribution.
[15:54] <xnox> Laney, plars - hm, i can't remember how new utah code got deployed. i wonder if there is some recipe that builds the packages and updates things. cause i can't see any checkouts of code anywhere at the moment.
[15:55] <Laney> xnox: I think it might have to be deployed on that venonat host
[15:56] <xnox> https://code.launchpad.net/~utah/utah/dev/+recipes
[15:56] <xnox> looks encouranging
[15:56] <xnox> it was built by magic 8 minutes ago. i wonder if it got triggered on commit somehow
[15:56] <xnox> https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-platform-qa-jenkins/+recipe/utah-production
[15:57] <Laney> that's what happens yeah
[15:57] <Laney> but will it get dist-upgraded to on the host?
[15:57] <xnox> let's see if things are better tomorrow =)
[15:58] <Laney> let's forget and remember in a week*
[15:58] <Laney> :P
[16:00] <xnox> aha
[16:00] <xnox> https://platform-qa-jenkins.ubuntu.com/view/All/job/iso-testing-setup/configure
[16:01] <xnox> has things like:
[16:01] <xnox> sudo add-apt-repository -y ppa:canonical-platform-qa-jenkins/canonical-platform-qa-jenkins-prod
[16:01] <xnox> sudo apt-get update
[16:01] <xnox> sudo apt-get install -y --force-yes download-latest-test-iso dl-ubuntu-test-iso utah
[16:01] <xnox> [ -d /data/iso ] || sudo mkdir /data/iso
[16:01] <xnox> sudo chown -R jenkins:jenkins /data/iso
[16:01] <xnox> pip3 install --user junit_xml
[16:01] <xnox> looks one needs to manually trigger it
[16:02] <xnox> INFO: Skipped: Skipping images without wubi.
[16:03] <xnox> win
[16:06] <plars> \o/
[16:08] <Laney> nice
[16:09] <Laney> keep an eye on https://platform-qa-jenkins.ubuntu.com/view/desktop/job/ubuntu-artful-desktop-amd64-smoke-default/2/console
[16:10] <Laney> argh
[16:11] <Laney> next door are doing drilling
[16:12] <flocculant> Laney: downstairs drilling at 11pm couldn't work out why I was so £$%£$%^ at him
[16:14] <xnox> Laney, checkout https://platform-qa-jenkins.ubuntu.com/view/desktop/ now, amd64 went into full test all the things mode now =)
[16:14] <xnox> and i386 will soon too.
[16:14] <xnox> Laney, can we please stop making i386 desktop images?!
[16:15] <Laney> dunno
[16:24] <jbicha> xnox: Ubuntu GNOME was probably days away from announcing that there would be no more UG i386 images after 18.04 LTS when Mark made his little announcement first…
[16:25] <xnox> jbicha, after 18.04? as in you still wanted to make 18.04 LTS i386 images?
[16:25]  * xnox is *sad*
[16:25] <jbicha> xnox: yes, because it's not nice to strand people on 17.04 or 17.10
[16:26] <jbicha> so if you want i386 to go away, at least for flavors now is the time to push for it
[16:26] <Laney> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/daily-live/current/ looks updated
[16:26] <xnox> Laney, smoke default passed for both i386 and amd64, so the links should be updated, yeah.
[16:27] <xnox> jbicha, you say that about stranding people, the argument was that we will not be able provide security support for i386 for key server and desktop things.
[16:28] <xnox> and therefore it will fallout, e.g. if firefox drops i386 support
[16:28] <xnox> it will affect 16.04, as we do wholesome backports for firefox security updates.
[16:28] <tjaalton> and upgrades would still be possible without images
[16:28] <jbicha> xnox: do you want to start the ubuntu-devel list thread then?
[16:28] <xnox> tjaalton, yes that.
[16:29] <jbicha> tjaalton: the Ubuntu GNOME proposal was to *kill* upgrades too
[16:29] <tjaalton> jbicha: ah
[16:29] <xnox> jbicha, no, you will not be allowed to do that.
[16:29] <jbicha> update-manager/do-release-upgrade would not allow upgrading past 18.04 LTS
[16:29] <xnox> because it is a lot of pain, on the archive maintaince side of things
[16:29] <xnox> we have tried to e.g. kill upstart on s390x alone, and that caused a hell of a lot of pain, due to transient arch:all packages.
[16:29] <xnox> which jump hoops with arch:any depends.
[16:29] <jbicha> of course, there is a workaround if someone really wanted to install i386 but it wouldn't be supported by Ubuntu GNOME
[16:30] <jbicha> xnox: I think I'm talking about something different than what you are?
[16:30] <jbicha> also, flavors tend to have shorter support frames
[16:31] <jbicha> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/32bit_support
[16:31]  * ogra_ sighs ... so my terminals are back to taking minutes to start when spawned with ctrl-alt+t ... and i forgot what the workaround was that i had to use last time this happened
[16:31] <xnox> not really, most flavors did sign up for the full LTS cycles.
[16:31] <xnox> jbicha, i think we will keep packages in the archive. Even if we e.g. publish i386 ones into universe, and amd64 ones into main.
[16:32] <flocculant> xnox: which flavour signed up for full LTS cycle? I know Xubuntu doesn't
[16:32] <jbicha> xnox: I think Kylin was the only flavor to do 5 years for 16.04
[16:33] <jbicha> Kylin 16.04 was just Unity plus a bit more so that makes sense
[16:33] <flocculant> not sure about Kubuntu - but I pretty sure others are 3 years
[16:34] <xnox> flocculant, need to check the ubuntu-publishing thing with the info.
[16:34] <jbicha> xnox: yes, if you read the wiki link I posted, I explicitly said that i386 packages would still be built for now; there just wouldn't be images and do-release-upgrade wouldn't let you upgrade
[16:34] <xnox> apt-cache should show the years of support field.
[16:35] <xnox> which for kubuntu on xenial appears to be 9m =/
[16:35] <xnox> xubuntu is 3y
[16:35] <xnox> at least as per metadata
[16:36]  * flocculant is glad you said that ...
[16:36] <jbicha> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseNotes/#Official_flavours
[17:01] <xnox> ok, email sent.
[17:01] <xnox> i hope this is not going to hit softpedia / omg ubuntu / what-not like the upstart email i sent the other day
[17:03] <jbicha> xnox: you might as well email them too since you know they're going to report it :|
[17:04] <xnox> jbicha, well, i added an opening note for those journalists.
[17:05] <jbicha> why do you want to maintain the upgrade path?
[17:05] <jbicha> if you think it's unsupportable, then don't have an easy upgrade button!
[17:05] <xnox> jbicha, i do not want to maintain the upgrade path; but we will maintain the archive, because otherwise it is a load of pain
[17:06] <jbicha> well you used the words "upgrade path"
[17:06] <xnox> jbicha, server/IoT will be supported, and unwinding desktop on one arch, but not the others is a lot of work, and it constantly clogs up britney as we have discovered when we compiled unity8 on s390x by accident and then tried to back-paddle out of it.
[17:06]  * xnox goes to read my message again
[17:07] <jbicha> xnox: why can't we just have do-release-upgrade and update-manager *not* offer the upgrade if ubuntu-desktop (or similar metapackage) is installed?
[17:07] <xnox> jbicha, on the flavors bit. Yes, because it will be available. We may choose not to publish upgrade-manager metadata, but the upgrade will be available.
[17:08] <xnox> jbicha, we can, but one is better off with supported i386 base from 18.04 even if the desktopy stuff is not supported anymore.
[17:08] <xnox> because we will maintain the core/base/platform stuff for i386 still in 18.04 due to IoT and cloud-guest.
[17:08] <jbicha> xnox: then they can just use the netinst or manually hack their sources.list
[17:08] <xnox> my ultimate thinking there was this
[17:09] <xnox> we cannot safely or easily or automatically cross-grade people from i386 to amd64
[17:09] <jbicha> right
[17:09] <xnox> thus we will keep the archive there (even if with updates enabled)
[17:09] <xnox> and just wait for all of them to reinstall into amd64.
[17:09]  * xnox by updates i mean upgrade-manager
[17:10] <xnox> "continue to support the declining i386 classic desktop/server user base"
[17:10] <xnox> and by support, i mean not do much at all =)
[17:10] <jbicha> unless you make it difficult for them, some people will keep using i386 for as long as they can
[17:10] <oSoMoN> qengho, thanks, that confirms what I suspected
[17:10] <jbicha> if it's a pain to install, then they might just try the easier amd64 option
[17:10] <xnox> jbicha, i don't want to break people's installs intentionally. The biggest drop-off of i386 usage came from stopping  advertising the images.
[17:11] <xnox> (existing installs)
[17:11] <jbicha> how will it break installs?
[17:11] <xnox> by making them insecure, because we will have a supported i386 kernel, and I do want people to use supported i386 kernels.
[17:11] <xnox> disabling upgrades, is effectively making those installs vulnerable.
[17:12] <xnox> because internet is a nasty place with funny cat videos.
[17:12] <jbicha> I'm sure there will be plenty of guides showing them how to install from netinst because it's not *that* difficult
[17:16] <jbicha> I got the impression that in a year or two or so, we will break people's installs by forcibly removing Firefox from i386 computers?
[17:17] <jbicha> so it would be better to be more firm about making existing users aware that the platform is no longer supported for desktops
[17:21] <mdeslaur> I don't think we should upgrade i386 users to later releases...just let them get to the end of their support period and have update-manager just pop up the usual "no longer supported" dialog
[17:21] <xnox> jbicha, well, if we remove firefox i386, i'm sure we will install something useful to replace that. e.g. w3m or elinks....
[17:21]  * xnox *giggles*
[17:21] <mdeslaur> we will unlikely be testing i386 desktop packages if we don't have install media
[17:22] <xnox> mdeslaur, we currently uder test i386 install media; but we do test i386 packages quite a bit via autopkgtesting. But it is more server/cli focused.
[17:22] <mdeslaur> yeah, but we do test i386 security updates
[17:22] <xnox> mdeslaur, i disagree about the ugprade paths. Leaving i386 users on 17.04 is sad, leaving them on 16.04 or 18.04 is responsible.
[17:22] <mdeslaur> which we probably won't be doing anymore
[17:23] <xnox> mdeslaur, you will because of iot.
[17:23] <mdeslaur> xnox: not desktop packages, no
[17:23] <xnox> and that does include web browser engine
[17:23] <xnox> because of sinage
[17:23] <xnox> signage?
[17:23] <xnox> the kiosk thing
[17:24] <mdeslaur> xnox: I guess getting broken updates is better than getting no updates
[17:24] <mdeslaur> perhaps
[17:24] <xnox> mdeslaur, i don't buy that no test security updates. You are doing them for i386 for 16.04. Thus we can at least make 18.04 i386 desktop a 3year support thing, no?
[17:24] <xnox> mdeslaur, or possibly 4yr because of 16.04 ESM
[17:24] <xnox> mdeslaur, yeah, i am for broken updates on i386.
[17:25] <xnox> at least we will have some feedback about that, rather than leaving, knowngly, vulnerable machines out there.
[17:25] <mdeslaur> xnox: you're suggesting supporting i386 18.04, but just not having install media?
[17:25] <xnox> yes.
[17:25] <mdeslaur> sorry, I need to re-read your post
[17:26] <mdeslaur> I guess we could netinst a desktop system for testing
[17:26] <xnox> mdeslaur, we support existing installs only "continue to support the declining i386 classic desktop/server user base"
[17:26] <xnox> mdeslaur, you will boot the cloud image and install ubuntu-desktop
[17:26] <xnox> we will have cloud images, because we must for cloud-guest container; buildds; adt testing; and to produce/test iot & core/snappy.
[17:27] <mdeslaur> I can install a cloud image on real hardware?
[17:28] <xnox> mdeslaur, yes.
[17:28] <xnox> mdeslaur, it's call MAAS or subiquity
[17:29] <mdeslaur> ah, with the subiquity installer, I see
[17:29] <xnox> have you tried subiquity? the UX is amazing
[17:29] <mdeslaur> xnox: can I use my mouse? :P
[17:29] <xnox> althought it did not succeed for me, to complete.
[17:29] <mdeslaur> no, I didn't try it
[17:30] <xnox> mdeslaur, better you can use Alexa to guide it, thanks to the Amazon Cloud Voice recognition API
[17:30] <mdeslaur> lol
[17:30] <xnox> and auto-configuration with router config.
[17:42] <jbicha> GunnarHj: I think I'll have gnome-user-guide recommend ubuntu-docs if you don't mind (instead of depends)
[17:44] <GunnarHj> jbicha: In that case I actually think that depends is more correct. Given the pending changes in debian/rules, gnome-user-guide won't work without ubuntu-docs (no index.page file).
[17:45] <jbicha> it depends on how big of a deal the "circular dependency" problem really is
[17:45] <GunnarHj> Is that bad style?
[17:45] <jbicha> I don't think I've ever experienced a problem because of it, but Debian people tell me it is bad
[17:45] <GunnarHj> ok
[17:46] <GunnarHj> jbicha: But then I'd say depends in gnome-user-docs and recommends in ubuntu-docs, i.e. the other way around.
[17:46] <jbicha> I believe Debian upgrades are more complicated than Ubuntu ones
[17:47] <jbicha> GunnarHj: ok, I'll upload gnome-user-docs with Depends: ubuntu-docs
[17:47] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Should I make that change in ubuntu-docs?
[17:48] <GunnarHj> i.e. recommends instead of depends...
[17:48] <Henster> hey guys , my new Msi windows laptop is looking a bit lonley should i install the 16 lts or the new 17 dual boot  .. i like the idea i only need to partision one for version 17 drive ?
[17:49] <jbicha> GunnarHj: yes, unless someone else says we can ignore the circular dependency issue on Ubuntu
[17:50] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Let's be cautious; I'll change it.
[17:52] <Henster> should i just do Gnome .. aaah im so undesided now ,, want to cry ,,,
[18:17] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Just to be clear: I can wait with uploading ubuntu-docs 17.10.3 until after gnome-user-docs is in release, right?
[18:23] <jbicha> GunnarHj: yes or you can upload now
[18:26] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Hmm.. Suppose I can do it now since it no longer *depends* on u-g-d. I'll do so, so we have all the control stuff in place.
[18:40] <cyphermox> jbicha: g-c-c MIR is "accepted" inasmuch as the only issue I have with it is that unit tests aren't being run
[18:42] <jbicha> cyphermox: since you're here, could you look into LP: #1687474 and LP: #1686726 ?
[18:42] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1687474 in gnome-user-docs (Ubuntu) "[MIR] gnome-user-docs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1687474
[18:42] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1686726 in gnome-getting-started-docs (Ubuntu) "[MIR] gnome-getting-started-docs" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686726
[18:43] <cyphermox> sure, they're open tabs, I just had to deal with other stuff first :)
[18:45] <cyphermox> oh, dh_scour: we should fix that, I saw another such bug and I should still have some code somewhere
[18:49] <jbicha> could you be more specific about control-center? it looks to me like we are not disabling tests there
[19:04] <cyphermox> jbicha: g-s-s, I got things mixed up
[19:06] <jbicha> ok, understood