[12:36] <kamikaze> re all
[12:37] <kamikaze> i have somme question
[12:37] <kamikaze> i would like to use with ubuntu 6.10 my dongle usb wifi wg111 v2
[12:38] <kamikaze064> re all
[12:38] <kamikaze064> there is someone
[12:38] <kamikaze064> on the channel
[12:38] <kamikaze064> ?
[12:39] <mdke> kamikaze064: this isn't a support channel, try #ubuntu or http://www.ubuntu.com/support
[12:39] <kamikaze064> ok
[12:39] <kamikaze064> thanks
[12:39] <Hobbsee> kamikaze064: FYI, you'll have to use ndiswrapper for that.  but see #ubuntu
[01:59] <Mez> I'm thinking of making a backport of gstreamer0.10.11 to edgy... does anyone here have any major concerns ?
[01:59] <Mez> (this is to backport jokosher)
[03:19] <mdz> Mez: it's used by an awful lot of other packages
[03:19] <Mez> mdz: I know that - but I've spoken to the gstreamer guys and basically their respone was
[03:19] <Mez> "well we all use it - and if it doesnt work - we've done something wrong"
[03:20] <Mez> it's a point version change, and the API hasnt changed...
[03:20] <mdz> Mez: they use it on edgy?
[03:20] <Mez> mdz: yeah
[03:20] <Mez> 0.10.11 on edgy
[03:20] <mdz> oh, that's encouraging then
[03:20] <Mez> indeed :D
[03:20] <Mez> I mean - everythings backporting fine
[03:21] <Mez> the main problem i see is python-gstreamer0.10 - which i'm going to test with serpentine etc
[03:22] <Mez> but apparently, the gstreamer devs are using 0.10.11 on edgy with no adverse effets (in fact - htye'vepurposely coded it to make sure that it isnt a problem)
[03:37] <Chipzz> Mez: the "purposely coded it to make sure that it isnt a problem" is imho a rather silly argument in se. I can think of only one project that's silly enough to introduce new or destablizing features in stable releases (the linux kernel :P), but most projects try to avoid introducing bugs. The thing with bugs is that most of them are created by accident. ;)
[03:38] <Chipzz> but the argument about the developers using it theirselves IS a pretty good one though ;)
[03:39] <Mez> Chipzz, lol
[03:39] <Mez> well I'm currently uploading locally backported debs ;)
[03:41] <Chipzz> but I doubt the kernel matters a lot for the vast majority of users (those with not bleeding new hardware) anyway :)
[03:42] <Chipzz> both of my laptops happened to work out of the box anyway (except for the nvidia/suspend crap), and little has changed since I installed them (both initially breezy installs)
[03:43] <Chipzz> only thing that did change for me was a fix in ipw2[12] 00 drivers that made rmmod'ing/modprobing the drivers on iwconfig essid unnecesary :)
[03:49] <Mez> hmm
[03:51] <cr3> how can I determine more or less the number of milestones released per year?
[05:09] <somerville32> I get a kernel panic when I upgrade network-manager :(
[05:48] <wasabi_> I hate the gnome control center, by the way.
[06:54] <tepsipakki> rodarvus: ping?
[06:54] <tepsipakki> rodarvus: bug 67487 seems to have a fix in upstream, maybe we could get it in feisty (and as it seems, edgy too)?
[06:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67487 in xserver-xorg-driver-ati "[regression] [rv280]  black screen and console freeze when X starts - drm lockup" [Unknown,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/67487
[07:09] <Treenaks> tepsipakki: upstream should fix #20283 .. that's been in there since 2005-08
[07:10] <Treenaks> at least
[07:11] <tepsipakki> hmm, I don't suffer from that
[07:12] <tepsipakki> but the bug I mentioned... marked a number of dri freezes as duplicates until I understood that there were two (possibly unrelated) issues :)
[07:13] <tepsipakki> I used fglrx until now, but since the new version doesn't support radeon8500 anymore and tv-out isn't used so gave the free driver a go
[07:13] <Treenaks> tepsipakki: apparently, it's a video bios parsing issue.. but I haven't had a reply from upstream since october
[07:14] <tepsipakki> there was 6.6.3 in early october, but no new releases since
[07:14] <Treenaks> exactly
[07:14] <Treenaks> every cool kid is now hacking nouveau, instead of fixing at
[07:14] <Treenaks> ati
[07:15] <tepsipakki> and I thought I could run compiz :)
[07:15] <Treenaks> I can.. but my screen looks like this: http://foodfight.org/zut/ati-breakage.ogg
[07:17] <tepsipakki> hmm, nothing there?
[07:17] <tepsipakki> my ff shows a blank page
[07:18] <Treenaks> tepsipakki: it's an ogg/theora video
[07:18] <Treenaks> try totem
[07:18] <tepsipakki> wget works
[07:18] <Treenaks> ok :)
[07:19] <tepsipakki> eww.. funky :)
[07:20] <Treenaks> tepsipakki: yeah.. and it's not a hardware failure -- fglrx and The Other OS work
[07:20] <tepsipakki> naturally
[07:27] <fabbione> cjwatson: am I right that on cdrom installation, no matter what cdrom the machine is using the CD is mounted in /cdrom ? also.. do you have a good example on how to write preseedable stuff in d-i?
[07:29] <fabbione> Hobbsee: ping?
[07:30] <Hobbsee> fabbione: semipong?
[07:30] <fabbione> Hobbsee: i met the debian maintainer for kommando a couple of days ago and he was wondering when are you going to merge the new release he did a couple of weeks ago...
[07:30] <fabbione> Hobbsee: nothing more.. nothing less :)
[07:31] <Hobbsee> fabbione: what was his nick?
[07:31] <fabbione> Hobbsee: IRC nick.. pulsim or something like that...
[07:32] <Hobbsee> fabbione: will look when i get off the phone.
[07:32] <fabbione> thanks
[07:32] <Hobbsee> :)
[08:00] <fabbione> Mithrandir: you didn't accept glibc for -updates yet, did you?
[08:44] <Hobbsee> fabbione: you must be meaning pulsing
[08:54] <fabbione> Hobbsee: yes possibly..
[08:59] <Hobbsee> fabbione: done :)
[08:59] <Hobbsee> recently, anyway
[09:01] <fabbione> Hobbsee: yes i noticed it was not on MoM
[09:01] <fabbione> probably MoM is not running
[09:02] <Hobbsee> fabbione: likely.  rather stupid, that
[09:02] <fabbione> Hobbsee: MoM needs love once in a while
[09:04] <fabbione> doko: is there any chance that you can give me info about #78968 ?
[09:09] <dholbach> good morning
[09:11] <_ion> Hi
[09:11] <Amaranth> morning
[09:17] <Mez> cjwatson: ping regarding backports
[09:22] <Mithrandir> fabbione: no, I haven't yet.
[09:23] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ok thanks.
[09:27] <Mez> Mithrandir, unless you know about the backports process?
[09:28] <Mithrandir> Mez: if you can phrase a question, I can try to answer it.
[09:29] <Mez> Mithrandir, 2 questions
[09:29] <Mez> 1) is it possible to backport already superceded packages from feisty to edgy
[09:29] <Mez> 2) do backports currently buld against backports
[09:30] <Mithrandir> no and no, ttbomk.
[09:30] <Mithrandir> hmm, or maybe they're built against backports.
[09:30] <Mez> I rememebr there was a rather large debate about it ;)
[09:30] <Mithrandir> but in general, I'll turn down requests to backport important libraries and such.
[09:31] <Mez> Mithrandir, does that include gstreamer ?
[09:31] <Mithrandir> Mez: I would need to decide on that.  I'm not sure.
[09:32] <Mez> Mithrandir, fair enough
[09:32] <Mez> well the discussion is on ubuntu-devel, unless you want me to CC you ?
[09:32] <Mithrandir> nah, I can go look at it.
[09:32] <Mithrandir> just haven't really had time for email lately.  Too much archive administration work.
[09:32] <Mez> kk... well am writing a nice email right now
[09:33] <dholbach> Mez: please don't backport the cvs version of base
[09:34] <Mez> dholbach... well, I'm poking people right now...
[09:34] <Mez> we *might* be able to get 0.10.11
[09:34] <Mez> (not CVS)
[09:35] <dholbach> hmhm
[09:35] <Mez> dholbach, CC'd
[09:38] <Mez> is ubuntu-devel restricted now ?
[09:38] <Mez> (the mailing list)
[09:40] <Mithrandir> yes.
[09:40] <Mithrandir> as you'd know if you'd read ubuntu-devel-announce. :-P
[09:41] <Mez> Mithrandir, had my mail server bouncing emails for 2 months
[09:41] <Mez> Mithrandir, I'm just wondering why it's letting in my "non-ubuntu" email address
[09:41] <Mez> I guess it uses LP (or emails were harvested from there)
[09:43] <LaserJock> act
[09:44] <LaserJock> bah, needs a / :/
[09:53] <cjwatson> fabbione: /cdrom> correct
[09:54] <cjwatson> fabbione: er, nearly any bit of d-i is a reasonable example of how to do preseeding in its own way
[09:55] <cjwatson> fabbione: just avoid doing db_set without first checking if db_fget $question seen returns false
[09:56] <cjwatson> Mez: it uses LP, but it's hand-moderated anyway
[09:56] <cjwatson> rather than just rejecting
[09:56] <cjwatson> AFAIK backports builds against backports, but Adam Conrad would be the authoritative reference for that
[09:57] <dholbach> morning cjwatson
[09:58] <fabbione> cjwatson: ok thanks.
[09:58] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: if not, backporting libraries wouldn't make much sense, especially not if the new libs had a new soname.
[10:03] <webben> what does ubuntu uses to parse SVG? is there some reason Cairo's libsvg wasn't needed, or even included in the repositories?
[10:03] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: right
[10:03] <webben> that's this thing: http://cairographics.org/libsvg
[10:04] <Mez> cjwatson, so no chance of building against stuff thats already been superceded in feisty ?>
[10:05] <cjwatson> webben: I think we generally use librsvg from GNOME
[10:05] <fabbione> hey BenC
[10:05] <cjwatson> Mez: well, it could be done if necessary, but our standard backport tool doesn't support it
[10:05] <BenC> yo
[10:05] <dholbach> hey BenC
[10:05] <webben> cjwatson, ah thanks
[10:05] <cjwatson> I'd be a bit concerned about doing that since obviously fixing bugs is going to be a pain
[10:05] <BenC> hey dholbach
[10:06] <Mez> dholbach, did the 0.10.11 (non CVS) version cause those problems for you
[10:06] <cjwatson> webben: (not sure what Kubuntu uses)
[10:06] <webben> cjwatson, I was just off to find out, thanks :)
[10:06] <dholbach> Mez: I'm just asking the folks in #gstreamer what could cause this
[10:06] <Mez> cjwatson, I see your point, but as far as I'm concerned, I'd be happy, it builds quire nicely... however, daniel pointed out some issues with the current feisty version
[10:06] <dholbach> Mez: I don't know what's causing the problems
[10:07] <Mez> dholbach, I saw :D
[10:08] <Mez> dholbach, if it isn't the new gstreamer, would your opinion on backporting it change ?
[10:09] <dholbach> Mez: you asked me for my opinion - I wouldn't backport anything until jokosher worked fine for me - because 0.1 *works fine* on edgy right now - I wouldn't like to mess it up
[10:10] <Mez> dholbach, fair opinion :D
[10:10] <dholbach> and since gstreamer affects a lot more applications than jokosher, I'd be extra careful
[10:10] <Mez> dholbach, hence why I'm doing a lot of testing :D and why I'm consulting with gstreamer devs, and asking lots of people rather than just syaing
[10:11] <Mez> "yeah, works fine, backport it"
[10:11] <Mez> as I said, I'm happy rto just host it in my own apt-repo :D
[10:25] <coyctecm> synaptic crashes when I try to lock packages
[10:25] <coyctecm> I think it's a know bug
[10:25] <coyctecm> And what's the status of amd64 bootsplash? It's still grey...
[10:33] <cjwatson> that reminds me, I should upload usplash
[10:33] <cjwatson> not sure whether amd64 is fixed in there, but it can't hurt (much!) to try
[10:34] <cjwatson> I know the fix is known, but it's not clear to me whether it's been checked in
[10:42] <coyctecm> ok
[10:42] <cjwatson> mjg59 would know for sure
[10:52] <seb128> Mithrandir: around?
[10:52] <Mithrandir> seb128: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
[10:54] <seb128> Mithrandir: I've uploaded a new tracker with fixed debian/copyright, the orig tarball has still no LGPL text though, is that ok if that will be fixed with next upstream version? Or should I repackage the orig with a COPYING.LIB? Or better to wait for next version?
[10:54] <Mez> Mithrandir, where did you get the contentless ping script from?
[10:54] <tepsipakki> does usplash support svg pictures? In UWN #8 it was reported to do so, but looking at the code it isn't clear to me
[10:54] <tepsipakki> s/pictures/artwork/
[10:55] <neuralis> Mez: he wrote it; http://err.no/personal/blog/tech/2006-10-10-12-05_contentless_pings.html and there's an x-chat port somewhere.
[10:55] <seb128> Mez: he wrote it I think
[10:55] <Mez> seb128, sweet :P I know lots of people who wnat that
[10:56] <Mithrandir> Mez: I wrote it.
[10:57] <Mithrandir> seb128: Please repackage the orig.tar.gz.
[10:57] <Mez> Mithrandir, you should release it
[10:57] <seb128> Mithrandir: ok, please reject the upload I just did then
[10:57] <neuralis> Mez: i gave you a link.
[10:57] <Mez> neuralis, I'm blind today
[10:58] <Mithrandir> Mez: http://err.no/src/contentless_ping.pl you mean?
[10:58] <Mithrandir> seb128: will do.
[10:59] <Mez> Mithrandir, indeed
[10:59] <Mithrandir> seb128: sorry about having to be so picky, but licences are serious business.
[11:00] <seb128> Mithrandir: no problem, I don't like licences problems much but I totally understand ;)
[11:01] <Mithrandir> dholbach: colorblind looks interesting. :-)
[11:02] <dholbach> Mithrandir: interesting as in how?
[11:03] <Mithrandir> dholbach: as in I am red-green colour blind and if I can run something which turns problematic combinations into nonproblematic ones, that'd be useful.
[11:04] <Mithrandir> dholbach: I don't know if anything uses it yet, but I imagine what a theme engine using it could do..
[11:04] <dholbach> Mithrandir: gnome-mag makes use of it already and we'd like to build it with it - but it's just experimental parts of it that are unfortunately not exposed to the user
[11:04] <dholbach> Mithrandir: upstream is very responsive and a very nice guy - so if you have crazy ideas, I'm sure he'd listen
[11:07] <dholbach> Mithrandir: gracias for reviewing it
[11:08] <Mithrandir> dholbach: np, simple package.
[11:11] <seb128> Mithrandir: fixed tracker uploaded
[11:14] <Mithrandir> seb128: great, I'll get to it soon
[11:15] <seb128> Mithrandir: thank you
[11:38] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: aren't intel macs supposed to be getting grub2?
[11:39] <cjwatson> well, that had been the plan, but I found out that the state of grub on Intel Macs was much better than I'd previously thought
[11:40] <cjwatson> if this patch works, that should be about it
[11:40] <cjwatson> don't mind switching to grub2 later if it also works, but this is most expedient
[11:42] <cjwatson> NEAT
[11:42] <cjwatson> it works
[11:42] <Mithrandir> ok, cool
[11:43] <cjwatson> so theoretically gptsync probably isn't even needed, but that's a problem for another day
[11:54] <Mez> does it REALLY matter if something doesnt have man pages in the package
[11:54] <_ion> Usually yes.
[11:55] <Mez> this thing doesnt come with man pages
[11:55] <Mez> has no --help output
[11:55] <Mez> has nothing
[11:55] <Mez> oh wait
[11:55] <Mez> it has a html filr
[11:57] <cjwatson> whatever you do, don't override that lintian warning. If you don't want to write a man page, then just upload it with the lintian warning still there.
[11:58] <Mez> cjwatson, no problem - will it be rejected if theres no man pages ?
[11:58] <cjwatson> no
[11:58] <cjwatson> not by us anyway
[11:58] <cjwatson> it's still a bug though
[11:58] <Mez> cjwatson, I know - it's a major PITA though
[11:59] <Mez> none of the commands take command line arguments
[11:59] <cjwatson> *shrug*
[11:59] <Mez> lol :D
[11:59] <StevenK> Debian's view has always been, "We'd prefer if it had manual pages, but it doesn't require them."
[11:59] <BenC> I hate programs like that
[11:59] <_ion> Well, the commands probably *do* something.
[11:59] <_ion> How about explaining it in the man pages? :-)
[11:59] <StevenK> I agree with BenC, too, for what it's worth.
[11:59] <cjwatson> I'm not really interested in how much of a pain it is - I just want the warning not to be overridden, because people are picking up that idea from somewhere and it's wrong
[11:59] <BenC> with the exception of things like cat, programs should produce a usage with no args
[11:59] <Mez> _ion, if i could write man ages, I would
[12:00] <StevenK> Mez: *roff isn't hard. :-)
[12:00] <Mez> BenC, I agree :D
[12:00] <cjwatson> it's a pity nobody's bothered to write pages and pages of documentation on how to write man pages, isn't it?
[12:00] <cjwatson> and example files and stuff
[12:00] <BenC> cjwatson: File a bug :)
[12:00] <StevenK> cjwatson: Geez, bitter much? :-P
[12:00] <cjwatson> BenC: (I have written such documentation, personally)
[12:00] <Mez> cjwatson, lol :P I f I could only find that copy of LXF where they taught you how to write them
[12:00] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: yeah, man(7) doesn't exist.
[12:01] <cjwatson> or /usr/share/doc/man-db/examples/
[12:01] <BenC> cjwatson: It's part of Debian's stuff isn't it?
[12:01] <Mithrandir> they're all figments of your imagination
[12:01] <StevenK> Ahhh, now I remember that cjwatson is the man-db maintainer.
[12:01] <cjwatson> BenC: yeah, I maintain man-db
[12:01] <BenC> cjwatson: ick...sorry to hear that :)
[12:02] <Mez> learn one thing at a time and try to change it
[12:02] <cjwatson> hey, I like it
[12:02] <Mez> I'm still learning english
[12:03] <BenC> Mez: groff is easier than english...so I've heard :)
[12:03] <Mez> BenC, but i've always been taught to learn one thing at a time
[12:03] <Mithrandir> dholbach: for your decibel upload, you didn't really add a copy of the GPL to the upload, did you?  Or am I blind?
[12:03] <dholbach> Mithrandir: I added it to debian/ iirc
[12:04] <StevenK> Mez: If that's the case, you'd never learn packaging, which teaches multiple concepts at once.
[12:04] <Mithrandir> dholbach: oh, confirmed, I'm blind
[12:04] <Mez> and i REALLY dont want to be spouting .TH GREETING .SH hello
[12:04] <dholbach> *phew* I questioned MY sanity
[12:04] <Mez> StevenK, I see pacakging as one thing
[12:04] <Mez> lol
[12:06] <Mez> cjwatson, is it ok to override
[12:06] <Mez> E: nostromo: maintainer-script-calls-init-script-directly postinst:24
[12:06] <StevenK> Mez: Use invoke-rc.d
[12:06] <Mez> StevenK, I know - I do
[12:07] <cjwatson> you should use lintian-info to find out more
[12:07] <Mez> cjwatson: in my case - I do the following
[12:07] <Mez> http://rafb.net/p/6eAQFO44.html
[12:07] <Mez> (check for invoke-rc.d and f it's not there, call /etc/init.d
[12:07] <cjwatson> it is not OK to override messages from lintian unless it is a special case that isn't worth hardcoding in lintian
[12:08] <Mithrandir> Mez: why are you trying to restart udev?
[12:08] <cjwatson> if you use invoke-rc.d when it's available, that's fine and you can override the message - but as Mithrandir says
[12:08] <cjwatson> use dh_installudev instead
[12:08] <Mez> Mithrandir, because I'm installing udev rules
[12:08] <Mez> cjwatson, never come across that one
[12:08] <cjwatson> you have now
[12:08] <cjwatson> you don't need to restart udev in Ubuntu, but do in Debian
[12:08] <Mithrandir> Mez: yes, and?  udev watches its rules directory and reloads on the fly.
[12:09] <cjwatson> dh_installudev does the right thing
[12:09] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: that's because the udev policy in Debian is crack. :-)
[12:09] <Mez> Mithrandir, it didnt for me ;)
[12:09] <cjwatson> then you've done it wrong
[12:09] <cjwatson> or there is a udev bug
[12:09] <Mithrandir> Mez: if you install files directly to the rules directory, it does.
[12:09] <cjwatson> in any case you should not restart udev in Ubuntu
[12:09] <cjwatson> if you aren't using dh_installudev, you've almost certainly got it wrong. There are several subtleties.
[12:10] <Mez> cjwatson, cool :D thanks for pointing that one to me :D
[12:10] <cjwatson> you're welcome
[12:10] <cjwatson> hmm, actually dh_installudev doesn't seem to restart udev in Debian
[12:11] <cjwatson> so if I remember correctly and that's still needed there, you'll have to take care of that in packages intended for Debian users
[12:11] <Mithrandir> I'd call that a bug in dh_installudev in Debian, then.
[12:11] <cjwatson> probably ...
[12:12] <Mez> so - should i keep the postinst or not ?
[12:12] <cjwatson> not, for Ubuntu
[12:13] <Mez> cjwatson, cool
[12:14] <mneptok> cjwatson: you going to be active for the next ... say ... 4 hours or so? (not at all urgent)
[12:17] <cjwatson> mneptok: yeah
[12:21] <mneptok> cjwatson: cool. i'll ping you from home in a bit re: bug consolidation and closure
[12:22] <cjwatson> mneptok: ok
[12:46] <jwendell> doko, good morning. around?
[12:49] <dholbach> jwendell: he's off to meet a python guy - he'll be back in an hour or two or something
[12:50] <jwendell> dholbach, do you know if there is any firefox packager here?
[12:50] <dholbach> jwendell: at the moment we're a bit maintainerless
[12:50] <ogra> we have a team ...
[12:51] <dholbach> jwendell: iwj took care of that a while ago, the last uploads were done by keescook and doko
[12:51] <ogra> its just forming ...
[12:58] <mneptok> ooo! an alaisd. :)
[12:58] <seb128> lunch time, bbl
[01:00] <alaisd> am i allowed to print to STDOUT?
[01:02] <_ion> Nope, the new legislation forbids it. If you're caught, your name will be added to the list of people who have done that, and you have to report yourself to neighbours and schools near your house.
[01:03] <alaisd> aw well, forking to the background then
[01:05] <jwendell> dholbach, firefox is a monster... debian diff does not reside in debian dir only...
[01:17] <cjwatson> jwendell: that is true of many packages and is perfectly standard practice
[01:21] <jwendell> cjwatson, yes, i understand, i'm talking this because i'm a novice in debian builds...
[01:28] <jwendell> is there any way for lsdiff work on <package>.diff.gz? or does it only work on unzipped files?
[01:30] <jwendell> sorry, got the answer (-z)
[02:04] <giskard> ciao *
[02:07] <Mithrandir> NEW empty.
[02:07] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: *\o/*
[02:08] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: woot!!!
[02:10] <ogra> Mithrandir, what about enabling me to work again by finally promoting pulse ?
[02:10] <ogra> now that you dont ahve anything to do anymore :P
[02:44] <Ng> mdke: about?
[02:48] <jwendell> dholbach, help me: i want to test a fix for firefox; i've done apt-get source. I want to modify configure.in, which was already modified by debian diff
[02:48] <jwendell> dholbach, how to do this?
[03:02] <Mithrandir> sfllaw: you're aware that bash is Essential and dependencies on it are not needed?
[03:02] <Mithrandir> sfllaw: re https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/oprofile/+bug/69455
[03:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 69455 in oprofile "[SRU]  for oprofile, edgy-updates: bashism in oprofile's opcontrol script prevents user from setting any events" [Unknown,Fix released]
[03:04] <dholbach> jwendell: just change configure.in again - afaik firefox doesn't use a patchsystem
[03:04] <dholbach> jwendell: if you change configure.in just make sure you run autoconf again - and remove autom4te.cache/ - it shouldn't show up in the diff
[03:06] <Mithrandir> crimsun: I've rejected your updated oprofile upload to edgy-proposed; reasoning is in the bug report.
[03:11] <sfllaw> Mithrandir: True.  I have no idea what I was thinking at the time.
[03:11] <Mithrandir> sfllaw: I suspect it was your evil twin or something. :-)
[03:12] <sfllaw> Mithrandir: For some crazy reason, I thought we had made dash Essential.
[03:13] <Mithrandir> sfllaw: dash is priority: required
[03:15] <sfllaw> Mithrandir: Yeah, I looked at it again.
[03:18] <Mithrandir> doko: any particular reason why you have uploaded two versions of eclipse to edgy-proposed, with the same version number?
[03:18] <Mithrandir> doko: also, if you want archive admins to take action on requests, subscribing ubuntu-archive is a good plan. :-)
[03:18] <\sh> who has a clue about the sparc buildds? :)
[03:18] <doko> Mithrandir: hmm, maybe I forgot that I did upload? ;-)
[03:19] <Mithrandir> doko: 'k, they're supposed to be the same?
[03:19] <zul> \sh: fabbione probably
[03:19] <Mithrandir> \sh: what are you wondering about?
[03:19] <doko> Mithrandir: yes
[03:20] <Mithrandir> doko: I'll reject the oldest one, then.
[03:20] <doko> Mithrandir: ok
[03:21] <\sh> fabbione: if you have time could you check this buildlog: http://librarian.launchpad.net/5776033/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-sparc.kmymoney2_0.8.5-1build1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz and tell me what could I do to prevent the bus error? :)
[03:24] <Mithrandir> \sh: that's probably fixed in a recent gs upload, I'll give it back and see if it works.
[03:24] <Mithrandir> \sh: but it fails on ppc too
[03:24] <\sh> Mithrandir:yes, broken build-deps
[03:24] <\sh> Mithrandir:on ppc that is
[03:24] <Mithrandir> yeah, just retried it
[03:25] <\sh> Mithrandir:cool thx :)
[03:29] <crimsun> Mithrandir: thanks. I wasn't quite sure how to progress given the conflicting info between Policy and Simon's comment. Thanks for clarifying.
[03:30] <Mithrandir> crimsun: np.
[03:32] <sfllaw> crimsun: Yeah, I was just crazy.
[03:32] <sfllaw> crimsun: Feel free to look me up on IRC if that happens.
[04:01] <jdong> cjwatson: many thanks for your hard work clearing backports queue!
[04:02] <cjwatson> you're welcome
[04:03] <cjwatson> sorry it was overdue
[04:10] <wasabi> Mithrandir: sorry about my idiotic NEW upgrades. I've been mentally out to lunch the last few weeks.
[04:10] <wasabi> s/upgrades/uploads/
[04:10] <wasabi> see, i can't even type what i'm thinking.
[04:15] <bddebian> Heya
[04:44] <dholbach> heno: should we add that <sourcepackage> tag to the clue files?
[04:45] <heno> dholbach: I think so, yes
[04:45] <heno> will it be optional?
[04:45] <dholbach> hmhmmh, that'd mean reading all packages/ files first
[04:45] <dholbach> i don't have a solid opinion yet :)
[04:46] <heno> me neither
[04:46] <heno> what was the use case for it again? local files for testing out stuff?
[04:47] <dholbach> what about this: if no special -r flag (or whatever it will be) is used, we rely on <name>.info files, else the <sourcepackage> xml tag will be considered
[04:47] <dholbach> yeah exactly
[04:47] <heno> it's useful if you tell bh to use that file, while if you only give it the package name then the clue file should have that name imo
[04:48] <heno> yep
[04:48] <dholbach> like that you can also 'accumulate' say evolution clues over a bunch of files (including the 'officially packaged' ones)
[04:48] <heno> right
[04:49] <dholbach> ok: so only read all specificied clue files, if -r is used, then rely on <sourcepackage>
[04:49] <dholbach> i'll let   bugxml -s   add that tag also
[04:49] <dholbach> (we had to rename -sa)
[04:49] <heno> the question is should bugxml create the official ones or secondary ones?
[04:50] <heno> you can always cut and paste the content to the official one later
[04:50] <dholbach> it shouldn't matter... bugxml can't write to /usr/share/bughelper/packages anyway - or did I overlook something?
[04:51] <heno> you're right. would the local files contain only one package or could I have my_clues.info with 5-6 packages, each identified by the source tag?
[04:52] <heno> dholbach: ^
[04:52] <dholbach> i'd prefer to have them separated, but we can also agreggate them if need be
[04:53] <heno> I guess we are getting into areas of personal workflow taste. How hard is it to change this stuff later
[04:53] <dholbach> once we'll have masses of people committing to ./bughelper/packages we'll also have less conflicts if we don't sum up all clues to one big xml file
[04:53] <heno> (point being that we should pick a route and go with it)
[04:53] <dholbach> I don't think it's going to be hard - it'll just mean that we have to parse one giant file instead of being able to pinpoint to one single file based on the source package name
[04:54] <heno> oh, I wasn't suggesting the official clues be all in one file, just my personal ones
[04:54] <dholbach> we'd have to change the xml format a bit
[04:55] <dholbach> i'll think about it... as you said: it's good to decide this early
[04:55] <heno> yeah, don't bother. Better to just make a directory and stick secondary files in there (locally) with the same name as the official
[04:56] <dholbach> I think that'd fit well into the spec like discussion we had yesterday about OrganisingClueFiles
[04:56] <heno> ~./bughelper/clues
[04:56] <dholbach> heno: I think it's easier to do that, because bugxml -s already does that for you - it adds clues to packages/<sourcepackage>.info
[04:57] <heno> right
[04:57] <dholbach> we could use BUGHELPER_LOCAL_CLUES_DIR :-)
[04:57] <dholbach> i'll write something up in BugHelper/Dev in a bit
[04:57] <dholbach> now that I reviewed all patches and wait for people to reply
[04:58] <heno> cool
[04:58] <dholbach> https://launchpad.net/bughelper/+milestone/0.1 looks quite good, if you ask me
[04:59] <dholbach> I think I just fixed 79150 too
[05:00] <dholbach> heno: if you have a good test case for bug 79150 let me know - I'm just trying -A ubiquity
[05:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 79150 in bughelper "Don't dupe on multiple finds" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/79150
[05:02] <heno> dholbach: a large number of ubiquity bugs do this. the traceback is in the original post and is repeated in the syslog
[05:04] <heno> dholbach: this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/52228 would do it if you searched on File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/ubiquity/frontend/kde-ui.py", line 524, in progress_loop
[05:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 52228 in ubiquity "Installer crashed" [Medium,Confirmed]
[05:04] <heno> say
[05:07] <dholbach> heno: ok, thanks
[05:32] <mako> mdke: we need to decide if by-hand authentication for coc signing is important enough that we want to implement it.. i get maybe one request a month.. maybe two, the vast majority of those people end up making keys anyway when i suggest it
[05:32] <mako> mdke: so i sort of think it's probably not worth the trouble
[05:48] <seb128> iwj: around? how does the gnome-app-install codec API works? there is no --help nor manpage for it
[05:49] <seb128> iwj: "gnome-app-install --codec=0.10:decoder-audio/mpeg" is supposed to be correct?
[05:50] <iwj> seb128: Yes.
[05:51] <iwj> The wiki spec is the documentation.
[05:51] <iwj> Sorry about the lack of --help; that's because there's not a proper option parser in g-a-i because python sucks.
[05:51] <iwj> seb128: I take it that gnome-app-install --codec=0.10:decoder-audio/mpeg didn't do what you wanted ?
[05:52] <seb128> the wiki has --codec=theora as example
[05:52] <seb128> no
[05:52] <seb128> $ gnome-app-install --codec=0.10:decoder-audio/mpeg
[05:52] <seb128> no suitable application
[05:52] <seb128> that's ii  gnome-app-install        0.3.6                    GNOME Application Installer
[05:52] <iwj> (Although I'm not sure whether there's anything for decoder-audio/mpeg.  What package are you expecting it to offer and does it have a .desktop file anywhere?)
[05:52] <seb128> and there is a .desktop for gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly listing decoder-audio/mpeg
[05:53] <iwj> Hmm, must be broken then.
[05:53] <seb128> /usr/share/app-install/desktop/gstreamer-ugly.desktop
[05:54] <seb128> ok
[05:54] <iwj> Err, gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly is in universe and not whitelisted.
[05:55] <seb128> is there a way to say that I want to use universe?
[05:55] <iwj> Yes, there's a file in /etc you can edit.
[05:57] <iwj> No, apparently the components whitelist is in gconf.   /apps/gnome-app-install/mime-whitelist-components, default is just `main'.
[05:58] <dholbach> iwj: bughelper now uses optparse - i can send you an example if you like
[05:58] <iwj> ian@anarres:~ $ time python -c 'import optparse'
[05:58] <iwj> real    0m3.885s
[05:58] <iwj> ian@anarres:~ $ time python -c 'import optparse'
[05:58] <iwj> real    0m0.143s
[05:58] <iwj> Too slow!
[05:59] <iwj> (That's on my Athlon 2GHz.)
[05:59] <dholbach> ok... maybe somebody ports popt or something to python *shudder* :-)
[06:02] <seb128> iwj: ok, with universe whitelisted it works better
[06:02] <iwj> Oh, good.
[06:02] <seb128> hum, it crashes though
[06:02] <seb128> Traceback (most recent call last):
[06:02] <seb128>   File "/usr/bin/gnome-app-install", line 212, in <module>
[06:02] <seb128>     sys.argv, as, transient_for)
[06:02] <seb128>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/AppInstall/AppInstall.py", line 252, in __init__
[06:02] <seb128>     self.search_entry.set_text(self.activation_style.searchString())
[06:02] <seb128>   File "/usr/bin/gnome-app-install", line 115, in searchString
[06:02] <seb128>     def searchString(self): return self._codecs.join(' ')
[06:02] <seb128> AttributeError: 'list' object has no attribute 'join'
[06:03] <iwj> Right, well, the right answer is to whitelist those packages we're prepared to do minimal security support for, as described in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SuggestedPackagesForFiletypesSpec under Security Considerations.
[06:03] <seb128> I've not used a transient-for
[06:03] <seb128> I'm just playing with g-a-i from the command line atm
[06:03] <cjwatson> is anyone fixing update-app-install, or should I?
[06:03] <iwj> cjwatson: How is it broken ?
[06:04] <iwj> seb128: Oh, ffs, that's the stupid Python 'delimiter'.join([list] ) thing again.
[06:04] <cjwatson> er, the error message is upstairs and I'm not, but it crashes on start with some python module it doesn't know about
[06:04] <cjwatson> haven't looked into it yet
[06:04] <seb128> iwj: that's not going to be done today anyway, libgimme-codec need main promotion and pitti is not around, let's do that monday at the distro sprint
[06:05] <iwj> update-app-install worked when I left it IIRC.  I can believe that seb128's bug escaped my testing though.
[06:05] <iwj> seb128: Right.
[06:05] <cjwatson>    File "/usr/sbin/update-app-install", line 17, in <module>
[06:05] <iwj> cjwatson: If this all can wait I think it'll be much easier when we're all together.  Is it blocking you now ?
[06:05] <cjwatson>      from AppInstall.CoreMenu import *
[06:05] <cjwatson>  ImportError: No module named AppInstall.CoreMenu
[06:05] <iwj> cjwatson: Freaky.  Probably not my fault, either :-).
[06:05] <cjwatson> not blocking me, I just noticed the crash log right after an Intel Mac install
[06:06] <iwj> cjwatson: Right.  Fair enough.
[06:06] <cjwatson> looked like python2.5 breakage maybe
[06:06] <iwj> cjwatson: You might like to mention that one to mvo.
[06:07] <cjwatson> I shall, thanks
[06:08] <cjwatson> iwj: bizarre, it works when I rerun it. I'll have to dig through logs ...
[06:09] <iwj> cjwatson: Urgle.
[06:37] <rexbron> hello,
[06:37] <rexbron> where can I find information on why a source package was rejected from the NEW queue?
[06:37] <rexbron> there are no bugs filled against the source package
[06:38] <cjwatson> the admin doing the reject normally sends a mail to the uploader and ccs ubuntu-archive
[06:38] <cjwatson> what package?
[06:38] <cjwatson> there can be no bugs filed (not filled) against the source package until it is in the archive
[06:39] <_MMA_> cjwatson: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+queue?queue_state=4&queue_text=murr
[06:39] <_MMA_> Thats what rexbron is referencing.
[06:40] <cjwatson> From: Tollef Fog Heen<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:40] <cjwatson> To: Andrew Hunter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:40] <cjwatson> Subject: murrine rejected
[06:40] <cjwatson> Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:54:03 +0100
[06:40] <cjwatson> Message-ID<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:41] <rexbron> ok ty
[06:41] <rexbron> silly me
[06:41] <cjwatson> (for those watching: incorrect debian/copyright)
[06:42] <_MMA_> Thanx cjwatson.
[07:24] <mdke> mako: seems sensible
[07:26] <mdke> elmo: major hugs
[07:26] <Mithrandir> mdke: -docs accepted today, btw.  I was just blind or diff was playing games with me or something..
[07:27] <elmo> mdke: eh - if you mean ubuntu-it, Ng did all the work
[07:27] <mdke> Mithrandir: saw it, thanks :)
[07:27] <mdke> elmo: I'll hug him separately
[07:28] <mdke> elmo: since you're here and he isn't, is it ok to add users for the other people I mentioned?
[07:28] <mdke> oh, some are there already as separate users
[07:35] <elmo> mdke: still need me to do anything?  otherwise, I need to duck out
[07:36] <mdke> elmo: if you can yeah. the server directories are owned by root
[07:36] <elmo> duh
[07:38] <mdke> thanks
[07:46] <elmo> mdke: I have to duck out, if you need anything more, best followup to RT for now
[07:46] <mdke> elmo: fair enough, thanks. Have a good weekend
[07:48] <allee> doko: any idea why digikam fails to dyn. loading <name.so> libgphoto2 plugins in dapper and still in debian sid? Edgy and feisty are okay.
[07:50] <allee> doko: http://bugs.debian.org/390703  http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=125696
[07:50] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 125696 in ssh "on a fresh install sshd_config can't talk with older version" [Unknown,Closed]
[07:50] <ogra> Seveas, ^^^^^^^^^ intresting Ubugtu bug
[07:51] <allee> doko: sorry http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=396249
[07:51] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 396249 in libgphoto2-2 "libgphoto2-2-dev needed" [Important,Closed]
[09:29] <Mithrandir> doko: should I remove gcc-4.0 from the archive?
[10:08] <Mithrandir> ogra: you're aware that pulse will now ftbfs due to a missing MIR for libasyncns?
[10:08] <ogra> meh, no
[10:08] <ogra> hmm, pitti didnt see that either ...
[10:09] <ogra> i'll add the MIR tomorrow, doesnt seem like i'll get it reviewed before the weekend anyway
[10:09] <Mithrandir> sure, no hurry.
[10:10] <giskard> MIR?
[10:10] <ogra> well, i'd like to have it off the table ...
[10:10] <Mithrandir> ogra: *shrug*, I have enough other stuff to do this weekend.
[10:10] <ogra> its trivial but took me half the dev cycle already
[10:10] <ogra> well, me too indeed
[10:10] <Lure> giskard: Main Inclusion Report
[10:11] <Mithrandir> ogra: there's no reason why a main promotion should take more than a week or so, even when not fast-tracked.
[10:13] <ogra> Mithrandir, it were only three days since i added the dep, thats fine ... i had and still have other probs with pulse tat i didnt expect ...
[10:16] <gnomefreak> are we expecting to see gnome 2.18 this month? gnome has 2.18 beta1 release on jan 22nd. or are we gonna wait for a more stable release
[10:17] <mdke> gnomefreak: we always get new gnome releases, no?
[10:17] <Nafallo> gnomefreak: devel always have the latest gnome, no?
[10:17] <mdke> generally on the *same day*
[10:17] <Nafallo> mdke: :-)
[10:17] <Nafallo> mdke: same hour ;-)
[10:17] <mdke> heh, that would be insane
[10:18] <gnomefreak> mdke: Nafallo i know we will get it but i dont know if its around the same day or do we wait for a more stable 2.18 release
[10:18] <Nafallo> mdke: well. we ARE talking about seb and daniel ;-)
[10:18] <tepsipakki> gnomefreak: 2.18 will be released in March
[10:18] <mdke> gnomefreak: we've had every 2.17 release as soon as the tarballs were out, I haven't heard any rumours that that will stop happening
[10:18] <Nafallo> gnomefreak: the two mentioned always package everything all the time. they are like packaging-monkeys :-)
[10:19] <Nafallo> or worse even :-)
[10:19] <Nafallo> but I helped them with a package yesterday! *proud* ;-)
[10:21] <bddebian> heh
[10:26] <tepsipakki> put seb and daniel hitting 'debuild -S' for an infinite amount of time, and you'll end up with a package including the entire works of Shakespeare, no?
[10:26] <LaserJock> haha
[10:28] <tepsipakki> mm, but would it be distributable? :)
[10:34] <Kw4k> http://www.visitallday.com/default.asp?partner=Kwak
[10:38] <Nafallo> tepsipakki: that's up to Mithrandir ;-)
[11:45] <jdong> random community process question: what governance body handles the revocation of Ubuntu membership? the CC?
[11:46] <mdke> jdong: there isn't a policy for that. But yeah, it would be the CC if it ever came up
[11:46] <mdke> jdong: it would be sad if that were needed
[11:47] <jdong> mdke: ok, cool. It was a purely hypothetical question to help me template some forum policies.....
[11:53] <crimsun> cjwatson: ping, do -metas ({k,x,}ubuntu-meta) need to distribute a COPYING, or is simply using ubuntu-meta's debian/copyright sufficient for ubuntustudio-meta?
[11:55] <mdke> crimsun: you got any time?
[11:56] <mdke> crimsun: thought we might go through some audio troubles
[12:05] <crimsun> mdke: hi.
[12:06] <mdke> crimsun: fancy it?
[12:06] <crimsun> sure, awaiting details.
[12:06] <mdke> crimsun: I can file a bug if you prefer


[07:26] <linux1456> Hello. Does XUbuntu allows to connect to internet via 3G Dongle (PPP Connection)?
[09:32] <Chronos_Master> hi there
[09:33] <Chronos_Master> can anybody help
[09:33] <Chronos_Master> I use xubuntu 15.10 x64. and I can't open libre office files from smb share
[09:33] <Chronos_Master> tnx...
[14:15] <Flanders> I’m having some odd troubles. In the past, I was unable to install Xubuntu 15.10, and thus kept to Linux Mint (14.04 LTS). The live-usb for Xubuntu worked today, and I installed it. Yet, whereas the Live-USB worked fine, I was only able to boot the installed Xubuntu through recovery mode, and now
[14:15] <Flanders> I can’t configure my two monitors.
[14:16] <Flanders> It only recognizes one “default” monitor, which it mirrors.
[14:18] <Flanders> I have updated all packages, and it prompts me to reboot, so I wonder if it will boot properly now.
[14:19] <Flanders> Hmm, yes, It boots now. The no-signal time is only temporary this time.
[14:19] <uflaig> hello everyone
[14:19] <uflaig> I just installed xubuntu 15.10 and apparently the autologin feature is not working
[14:20] <uflaig> can anyone help me out?
[14:29] <Flanders> Err, how do I install the AMD Radeon drivers again. Been ages since I last did that, and I remenber a lot of trouble.
[14:46] <pngl_> Hi! Is there a way to install open-vm-tools >= 10.0.0 on Ubuntu 15.10? VMWare Tools requires it to install the vmhgfs driver, but the latest I get from apt-get is open-vm-tools 9.10
[15:01] <Flanders> Is it normal that my fan is running very loudly the whole time? I did not have that issue on Mint. Is there anything I can do about that?
[15:10] <Flanders> I get a segfault when trying to run the software center from the terminal (since running it normally does not do anything)
[15:15] <Flanders> Anyone here?
[15:22] <Flanders> Can someone help me? Both Software Center and Synaptic give "Segmentation Fault (Core Dumped)"
[15:24] <Flanders> Anyone?
[15:24] <krytarik> Flanders: Run "sudo apt-get update", then try again.
[15:24] <Flanders> I’ve tried that, and upgrade too.
[15:30] <bekks> Flanders: And?
[15:30] <bekks> Flanders: Do both commands work fine?
[16:50] <leonardo_> hello, i need help
[17:57] <ubuntu621> hey
[17:57] <ubuntu621> can someone help me
[17:57] <ubuntu621> ?
[18:00] <sphrases> hello, can someone help?
[18:00] <sphrases>  when I add a launcher in the desktop panel and try to assign an application to it it crashes the panel
[20:59] <jdwwatts> hi
[22:00] <xubuntu36w> Hello everyone!
[22:00] <xubuntu36w> Can someone tell me how can i exclude conky to be updated?
[22:05] <xubuntu36w> Never mind. I found out.


[00:29] <len-1304> zequence, went through all the mixers I could find. sent email to the list.
[06:41] <smartboyhw> 1 day till EOL of Ubuntu Studio 10.04 LTS and Ubuntu Studio 11.10
[12:17] <smartboyhw_> zequence: http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2013/05/people-behind-ubuntu-quality-howard.html?m=1
[12:28] <zequence> smartboyhw_: That's great. Nice to see a picture of you too. Didn't know you were into fencing. You look like you might be good at it :)
[12:29] <smartboyhw_> zequence: That time was my only medal:P
[12:30] <smartboyhw_> Heck, it's 2 years ago
[12:34] <zequence> Even one medal is something :)
[12:34] <smartboyhw_> zequence: Heh:
[12:34] <smartboyhw_> :P
[12:35] <smartboyhw_> zequence: You did what dholbach said in #ubuntu-community-team ?
[12:35] <smartboyhw_> about vUDS
[12:36] <zequence> I haven't got around to that yet. Maybe tomorrow
[12:37] <smartboyhw_> zequence: Okies
[12:51] <DarkEra> good afternoon every one
[13:20] <smartboyhw_> Hello DarkEra http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2013/05/people-behind-ubuntu-quality-howard.html?m=1
[13:20] <smartboyhw_> :P
[13:21] <smartboyhw_> Ah you left a message
[13:21] <DarkEra> ;)
[14:13] <smartboyhw> wb DarkEra
[14:13] <DarkEra> smartboyhw, thanks :)
[14:13] <DarkEra> just reading a mail from the mailinglist
[14:14] <smartboyhw> DarkEra: ?
[14:14] <DarkEra> someone is looking for the next version of Jack and Ardour on 12.04 and asks if we plan that
[14:15] <smartboyhw> DarkEra: We might backport. Dunno, ask zequence…
[14:17] <DarkEra> that'll be the best to do before giving a answer. But afaik ardour 3 won't show up until the 13.10 release
[14:19] <DarkEra> ah, holstein just answered, exactly what i expected and wanted to answer too :)
[14:32] <zequence> Ardour3 is the kind of application you might want to backport to an LTS. We could add it ourselves to the Ubuntu repos right now, but I'd wait for the sync from Debian, which will be possible soon as Debian Wheezy is now released, and Debian Testing and Unstable are being actively updated now
[14:34] <zequence> The Ardour3 package is not yet released AFAIK, but should be shortly
[14:34] <zequence> We'd need to backport more than just Ardour. A few dependencies
[14:35] <DarkEra> heya zequence , cool and yeah, now wheezy is released everything is rolling again
[14:35] <zequence> Considering for how long the LTS will be supported, I think it makes sense to keep supporting it even after the next LTS is out
[14:35] <DarkEra> i agree on that
[15:32] <smartboyhw> zequence: Would it be a good idea to tell people on #ubuntustudio what releases are supported, or what has (in 10.04 LTS and 11.10's case, soon will be) EOL?
[15:32] <smartboyhw> using the channel topic
[15:42] <DarkEra> Ubuntu Studio 13.04 and 12.04.2 Now Released http://ubuntustudio.org/download and supported
[15:42] <smartboyhw> DarkEra: How about 12.10?
[15:43] <DarkEra> that was copied from the topic in #ubuntustudio just add that "and supported" maybe and 12.10
[15:43] <smartboyhw> We will need to ask holstein or astraljava to chan
[15:44] <smartboyhw> *change
[15:44] <smartboyhw> (if we change)
[15:44] <DarkEra> if it still can be added, i believe topics are limited
[15:45] <DarkEra> to a certain amount of characters
[15:45] <smartboyhw> yep
[15:45] <smartboyhw> !version
[15:46] <smartboyhw> meh
[15:47] <DarkEra> lol
[15:49] <smartboyhw> sleep bye!
[15:49] <DarkEra> smartboyhw, you're going to attend on UDS next week
[15:49] <DarkEra> ?
[15:49] <DarkEra> ok laters :)
[15:50] <smartboyhw> DarkEra: NO
[15:51] <DarkEra> k
[16:45]  * holstein can update the topic if you guys want..
[16:45] <holstein> i like the idea of a factoid.. !supported
[16:53] <zequence> Adding factoids is never wrong, I think
[16:53] <zequence> The topic should not say more than needed, IMO
[16:58] <holstein> zequence: i like a concise topic
[17:23] <zequence> I wonder how I can manage to push an entire kernel to github without it getting stuck half way through
[17:24] <zequence> I'll be hopefully taking over maintenance for all kernels, including the development release during saucy
[17:24] <zequence> all -lowlatency ones, that is
[17:58] <zequence> I get up to 300MB, then it chokes
[18:39] <zequence> After 4 fails, I guess it's time to contact support


[23:43] <TommyT> greetings... I see ubuntulog2 has joined the channel
[23:44] <TommyT> Is ubuntulog2 a bot or a user?


[00:09] <daskreech> Riddell: Want to be more clear as to the version for Amarok on Lynx?
[00:11] <Riddell> I'm afraid not, konqueror crashes now when I try to edit it :(
[00:12] <daskreech> svn up?
[00:55] <daskreech> Riddell: Any points missing from Kubuntu LTS that you would like to see there?
[04:14] <LaserJock> if I kill virtuoso is it going to do bad things?
[04:20] <LaserJock> ScottK: so I installed kubuntu-netbook
[04:20] <ScottK> LaserJock: I'm guessing virtuoso is not your friend.
[04:20] <LaserJock> ScottK: since I logged in this virtuoso/nepomuk process is taking all my CPU
[04:21] <ScottK> Lovely.
[04:21] <ScottK> I think if you kill it it won't affect much.
[04:21] <ScottK> JontheEchidna is our expert, IIRC.
[04:21] <ScottK> LaserJock: How much RAM does your netbook have?
[04:22] <ScottK> We should have a patch that keeps it from running on systems with 1GB or less.
[04:22] <LaserJock> 1 GB of RAM
[04:23] <LaserJock> so I killed it
[04:23] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I thought it wasn't supposed to run on 1GB systems?
[04:23] <LaserJock> nepomuk processes are still taking a fair amount, but at least it's no 100%
[04:24] <ScottK> You would think by now upstreams would have learned the lesson that searching is not so cool it gets to steal all the CPU.
[04:24] <LaserJock> especially on first start-up
[04:24] <LaserJock> I was about to start my review with "performance is not so great"
[04:24] <ScottK> Yeah.  I can imagine.
[04:25] <LaserJock> but I've been through this enough to know to check top first ;-)
[04:25] <ScottK> IIRC that running on a 1GB system is a bug.
[04:25] <LaserJock> when I first got my netbook and put UNE on it I was really disappointed
[04:26] <LaserJock> only to realize Gnome-Do was killing it with 100% CPU usage the entire time
[04:26] <ScottK> Nice.
[04:27] <LaserJock> I almost wonder if some sort of "Hmmm, a process seems to be taking a lot of your CPU" notification
[04:27] <LaserJock> would be helpful
[04:27] <daskreech> ScottK: I have 600MB and it runs on my computer
[04:28] <ScottK> daskreech: I think that's not good.
[04:28] <LaserJock> it's sort of like a full hard drive
[04:28] <ScottK> Yeah.
[04:28] <daskreech> And I have near 700 GB of Data
[04:28] <LaserJock> is this only used for strigi?
[04:28] <daskreech> So I just started nepomuk and left it running overnight
[04:28] <ScottK> I'm not sure what an ordinary user would know what to do about it.
[04:28] <daskreech> LaserJock: It's the culmination of strigi
[04:28] <ScottK> LaserJock: No, also for nepomuk (semantic desktop stuff)
[04:29] <LaserJock> is that related by chance to these "open desktop" widgets?
[04:30] <ScottK> No.  It's wired more deeply into the system than that.
[04:30] <LaserJock> k
[04:30] <ScottK> KDE is going full force for sematic desktop (whatver that means).
[04:31] <LaserJock> I just wondered because the "open desktop" and "knowledgebase" widgets didn't seem to work for me
[04:31] <LaserJock> well, I don't know, they didn't do anything so I wondered
[04:31] <ScottK> The knowledgebase one is somewhat flaky to me.
[04:32] <ScottK> We didn't customize that at all, just went with upstream defaults.  If you decide you care about widgets on the desktop you'll change them anyway.
[04:32] <LaserJock> sure, I already did ;-)
[04:32] <LaserJock> there are *so* many widgets these days
[04:32] <ScottK> The twitter/identi.ca one seems to finally work this cycle.
[04:33] <ScottK> There are.
[04:33] <LaserJock> the Remember the Milk one works, very slick looking too
[04:33] <ScottK> Cool.
[04:34] <LaserJock> not sure I'm crazy about scrolling the screen for widgets, but there's not a lot you can do on such a small screen
[04:35] <ScottK> I think it's a decent accomodation to the form factor.
[04:35] <ScottK> One package I really like is akonadi-kde-resource-googledata.
[04:36] <ScottK> With that I get automatic sync between my Google account and local addressbook/calendar data.
[04:36]  * rgreening is installing KNR now on Acer One...
[04:36] <ScottK> Since I also have an Android phone, it works out very nicely.
[04:38] <LaserJock> well, I have to say the interface is better than what I thought from looking at screenshots
[04:38] <ScottK> I guess that's good.
[04:39] <LaserJock> autohiding panel is a bit difficult when dealing with apps with menus
[04:39] <ScottK> When I demo'ed the tech preview at the last UDS a lot of people said they thought it was similar to UNR.
[04:39] <LaserJock> but you get a lot of screen real estate
[04:39] <ScottK> Agreed.
[04:39] <ScottK> It's not ideal, but I think it's a good trade off.
[04:39] <ScottK> Maximizing available screen real estate was a big design focus.
[04:40] <LaserJock> UNE has a persistent panel
[04:40] <LaserJock> but it's a bit small
[04:40] <LaserJock> some similar ideas, different ordering
[04:41] <LaserJock> the launcher is pretty nice, I like that it as a search (missing in UNE)
[04:41] <ScottK> AFAIK they were done fairly independently .
[04:41] <LaserJock> yeah, I imagine
[04:41] <LaserJock> it's interesting to see where independent designs converge
[04:42] <ScottK> Some early prototypes of the KDE U/I were demonstrated at the joint desktop summit in Gran Canaria.
[04:42] <ScottK> I know there were some Canonical Ux people there.
[04:42] <ScottK> So it may not have been completely independent.
[04:43]  * daskreech shrugs. They seem to be pulling best of breed in and forging
[04:43] <ScottK> Plaigarism is the sincerest form of flattery.
[04:43] <daskreech> Fairly certain at some point Ubuntu will be a loose approximation of GNOME
[04:44] <ScottK> It will be interesting to see what happens when Gnome shell lands.
[04:44] <LaserJock> I don't exactly look forward to that :(
[04:45] <ScottK> From what little I understand it, it seems like Canonical is headed in a bit of a different direction.
[04:45] <daskreech> LaserJock: Why not?
[04:45] <LaserJock> I haven't tried it yet, but I hope they don't force usage before it's stable enough
[04:45] <LaserJock> well, because new things generally suck :-)
[04:45] <LaserJock> until things get worked out
[04:46] <ScottK> daskreech: Think KDE 4.0 and wonder why he might be worried.
[04:46] <LaserJock> well, something like that
[04:46] <LaserJock> KDE had 4.0 and is very very well organized
[04:46] <LaserJock> GNOME is much more haphazard
[04:47] <daskreech> ScottK: Gnome SHELL isn't KDE 4.0
[04:47] <daskreech> It's a rough bump into KDE 3.0
[04:48] <ScottK> daskreech: We'll see.  It seems to have some similar concepts to what plasma had for 4.0 behind it.
[04:48] <daskreech> They aren't rewriting anything they are adding a new option that will phase out the still maintained new one
[04:48] <ScottK> Right, so not so hard a transition.
[04:49] <LaserJock> well
[04:49] <daskreech> Gnome 3.0 is for most intents and purposes a pushpin in the timeline that arbitrarily says Look this is a new version
[04:49] <daskreech> If they didn't do Gnome Shell there would be no other real visible changes to Gnome
[04:49] <ScottK> Sure.
[04:49] <LaserJock> I'm worried that it will be harder a transition than people are letting on and it will not be independent (so it'll ripple through the desktop)
[04:50] <daskreech> LaserJock: I'm not sure what you think will happen but it won't destroy anything
[04:50] <ScottK> I don't understand Canonical's strategy for it.  At least from what I've seen (not that I look really hard) they are pressing on with their own vision and not worrying about it.
[04:51] <LaserJock> I think it'll very likely suck developer time/energy away from other things that are maybe more needed
[04:51] <ScottK> So I think concern that where Ubuntu is going will end up cross threaded with where upstream Gnome is going is not unreasonable.
[04:51] <LaserJock> and then it won't really add much of anything
[04:51] <daskreech> ScottK: Canonical will soon be it's own software stack I'm sure
[04:51] <ScottK> daskreech: Maybe that's the plan.
[04:52] <daskreech> They have already started saying things like if you would like the Ubuntu users to enjoy your application now would be the time to make patches
[04:52] <daskreech> ScottK: they aren't quite that dumb but they are that stubborn
[04:53] <daskreech> There is huge value to networking and community effects.
[04:54] <daskreech> It's how they pulled from Debian and made an Ubuntu experience
[04:55] <daskreech> No possible way that the plan is to sever that with the rest of the Linux world. But if they divine that this is a valuable path they are going to chase it and promote others follow by including the changes they make
[04:55] <ScottK> I'm curious how this no systray thing will go.
[04:55] <daskreech> I'm sure they are too
[04:55] <ScottK> My favorite being the one that was sure it wouldn't be a problem to expect Skype to accomodate it.
[04:56] <daskreech> I'm just glad that it can be done. I can't fathom trying to do this kind of thing in Microsoft and getting it to ship in WIndows
[04:56] <ScottK> Agreed.
[04:57] <LaserJock> I find it also interesting to see how "we are our own upstream" works out
[04:58] <ScottK> Yeah.
[04:58] <daskreech> I like the merging of Gnome Apple an Windows 7 in having persistency of applications and actions even if they are not running
[04:58] <daskreech> Some good stuff happening
[04:58] <ScottK> So far I think they have a mix of good ideas and bad ones.
[04:59] <LaserJock> as long as things can "shake out" and don't get stuck in "we have to keep this just because"
[04:59] <ScottK> LaserJock: I haven't seen a lot of openness to revisit previous decisions so far.
[04:59] <LaserJock> not particularly no
[05:00] <LaserJock> not on the design level
[05:00] <ScottK> I am still completely boggled at the notion that if I click on a notification it's bad if something useful happens.
[05:00] <daskreech> LaserJock: So far I can't think of an Idea they have vocally dropped but then I don't know if that's because they have a stubborn we must stick to it agenda or what they have done so far has been good
[05:00] <daskreech>  I know that people in general who are getting the end release distro seem to be pretty accepting of whatever comes
[05:00] <LaserJock> ScottK: I get it in practice. it means I don't have to freak out if I miss a notification
[05:01] <ScottK> LaserJock: That's exactly how they have it wrong.
[05:01] <ScottK> They solved the wrong problem.
[05:01] <LaserJock> well, they solved part of the problem, IMO
[05:01] <ScottK> The problem isn't having actions, the problem is having actions be the only way to do something.
[05:01] <daskreech> LaserJock: I've had two different experiences with that. Either I find notifications very very distracting or I stop looking at them altogether which after an hour makes me wonder why they are there
[05:02] <LaserJock> I don't have a problem not click on notifications
[05:02] <LaserJock> it does seem a bit too difficult to deal with actions though
[05:02] <ScottK> LaserJock: An example: with my Quassel IRC, I get a notification when I get highlighted.  If I click on it, I get taken to that channel.  If I miss it and still want to respond, I click on the systray icon and I still go to the channel.
[05:03] <LaserJock> right
[05:03] <ScottK> I think the design goal of the user not being rushed is very good.
[05:03] <LaserJock> I go straight to the window either way
[05:04] <ScottK> I think that they drew a poor implementation to reach that goal and then insisted it was the goal.
[05:04] <LaserJock> there is still a sense of having different modes (go straight to window or go to messaging menu)
[05:04] <LaserJock> hmm
[05:04] <daskreech> LaserJock: Aslo Empathy is broken
[05:04] <LaserJock> I actually like that notifications aren't actions
[05:04] <ScottK> I have the KDE version of the messaging menu (it's still an indicator) and I also like it.
[05:05] <LaserJock> but I didn't find notifications that were actionable very annoying in the first place
[05:05] <ScottK> I think it's great when I've been away from my computer and come back to a bunch of highligets.
[05:05] <ScottK> So I want a complete list.
[05:05] <LaserJock> I have more problems with having the notification menu disconnected from the app
[05:06] <ScottK> For reacting real time when I'm at the computer though I think it's far inferior to just clicking on the notification or the icon.
[05:06] <LaserJock> so if I go straight to the apps window, it doesn't clear the notifications necessarily
[05:06] <LaserJock> I just go to the app though
[05:06] <ScottK> The KDE one does that sometimes, but it usually works out.
[05:06] <LaserJock> it's a click either way
[05:07] <LaserJock> either click on the notification or click on the app
[05:07] <ScottK> Yes, although going via the menu can take you to the right spot in the app.
[05:07] <LaserJock> right, but that's why you can minimize to systray anymore
[05:07] <LaserJock> you always have the apps there (for better or worse)
[05:07] <ScottK> I really like the fact that in Quassel the icon/notification takes me to the right channel.
[05:07] <verbalshadow> i like the message indicator, mostly because it gets rid so about 4 different icons in the systray
[05:08] <ScottK> It didn't get rid of any yet for me.
[05:08] <ScottK> I get enough out of the Quasel and Kmail icons that I prefer to have them around still.
[05:08] <LaserJock> so far for me it's a net loss in total
[05:08] <verbalshadow> just need a plugin in for choqok
[05:08] <ScottK> I don't IM, so that doesn't enter into it.
[05:09] <LaserJock> I have 3 icons (gwibber, evolution, and empathy) rolled into one, but I have 2 new  ones for the session that are wide
[05:09] <LaserJock> what bugs me the most is that there are no preferences, no options
[05:10] <ScottK> The fact that I can control which icons I see and don't see on an icon by icon basis now in KDE made the most difference for me on the systray
[05:10] <ScottK> LaserJock: I told you before you want to be a KDE user.
[05:10] <ScottK> Then you can have preferences.
[05:11] <verbalshadow> :)
[05:11] <maco> i have the message indicator plasmoid but its useless to me as it just shows all 100-or-so of my kmail folders *all the time*
[05:11] <maco> LaserJock: come on jordan, come to the darkside. kubotu will give you cookies ;-)
[05:11] <LaserJock> ScottK: I want preferences, not every possible combination and permutation of possible configurations ;-)
[05:12] <ScottK> LaserJock: KDE has started to realize that an infinitude of preferences is not idea.
[05:12] <maco> yeah kde4 is actually usable, unlike kde3
[05:12]  * maco runs
[05:13] <ScottK> But just on the topic of system tray, I could easily run without one if I wanted to and I can decide on an icon by icon basis if they should be shown, hidden, or left to the app to decide.
[05:13] <LaserJock> you know, I just started to like KDE when KDE3 was killed off
[05:13] <ScottK> So it's very easy to get exactly what I want.
[05:14] <ScottK> The stuff that was annoying me about taking up too much space is now pretty well resolved.
[05:15] <ScottK> BTW, I totally agree about Chromium.  I'm liking it a lot.
[05:15] <ScottK> I'm a little worried about using a browser that's in Universe.  I need to look into how it's going to be kept up.
[05:15] <LaserJock> perhaps
[05:16] <LaserJock> it's long been more stable than Firefox ever was for me
[05:16] <ScottK> It's not stability I'm worried about, it's security.
[05:16] <LaserJock> I'm really surprised that a browser this good could be this good so fast
[05:16] <ScottK> AFAIK there are no really secure web browsers.
[05:16] <LaserJock> it's almost an oxymoron
[05:17] <maco> i have choqok, quassel, and skype set to "auto" yet all three stay in the tray full time  when running :-/
[05:17] <ScottK> At the last UDS, shtylman was asking everyone "Have you tried Chromium".
[05:18] <ScottK> maco: The app needs to be designed to do something with the auto setting.
[05:18] <maco> i see
[05:18] <ScottK> Witness the device notifier will hide itself if it didn't detect stuff now.
[05:18] <maco> right
[05:18] <ScottK> It used to be both not in the tray and always present.
[05:18] <ScottK> Took up a huge amount of space.
[05:19] <ScottK> It would be nice of Akregator would autohide when there were no unread posts.
[05:23] <LaserJock> is the ordering of elements in the panel come from upstream?
[05:23] <LaserJock> s/is/does/
[05:24] <ScottK> Except we added the lock/logout widgets
[05:24] <ScottK> Panel configurability is not on par at all with plasma desktop yet.
[05:27] <LaserJock> it's a bit weird having the window control all the way on the right
[05:27] <ScottK> Agreed.
[05:27] <LaserJock> I'm used to having it next to the launcher area (center of panel)
[05:28] <LaserJock> on the other hand, the X is in the top right corner where you'd expect :-)
[05:28] <ScottK> They put it on the left initially, but concluded it should go on the right so the X to close windows would be where people expect it.
[05:28] <ScottK> Yes, exaclyt.
[05:28] <ScottK> Rather ironic given Ubuntu's configuration now.
[05:28]  * maco giggles
[05:28] <LaserJock> in UNE it seems more like a tab
[05:29] <LaserJock> so the X is on the right side of the tab
[05:29] <maco> like in firefox?
[05:29] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:29] <LaserJock> so it doesn't feel like a window decoration context, IMO
[05:29] <LaserJock> it feels more like closing tabs
[05:30] <maco> firefox switched from a single close button to one-per-tab after eye tracking testing showed that people would look at that button, pause, then dismiss it and keep looking for a way to close the tab
[05:31] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:32] <LaserJock> so I like in UNE I have, from  left to right, 1) the place I start apps 2) the place where apps live 3)  the title of current app 4)X to close that app
[05:33] <LaserJock> for Kubuntu netbook 1 is on the opposite side of the window as 3 & 4 and 2 is hidden in 3
[05:33] <daskreech> LaserJock: Chrome was built by Google buying nearly all the Mozilla dev heads. So the stuff they had planned for Firefox they just did it 2-3 years earlier since they didn't have to work around Cruft
[05:34] <LaserJock> daskreech: ah, that make sense
[05:34] <daskreech> ScottK: +1 on akregator
[05:35] <ScottK> daskreech: It might be worth filing a wish on b.k.o if there isn't one.
[05:36] <LaserJock> how has the bug forwarding thing worked out?
[05:36] <ScottK> JontheEchidna is probably the one with the best view on that.
[05:37] <ScottK> I know that for me filing tracebacks upstream has resulted in a lot more of my crashes getting fixed than filing them on Launchpad ever did.
[05:38] <daskreech> ScottK: Shall I?
[05:38] <ScottK> daskreech: Yes.  Please.
[05:38] <daskreech> ScottK: Ok I'll drop it on my To-do
[05:41] <ScottK> Thanks.
[10:05] <jussi> ScottK: hei! Any idea when those backports will be done?
[10:32] <Quintasan> hello
[11:25] <larsivi> you gents know if a nepomukfilewatch memory leak has been reported?
[13:24] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: Strigi will not start on 1 GB if machines, but only if it's the first start of nepomuk ever. (So on the live cd, and then on the first login)
[13:25] <JontheEchidna> I couldn't think of a way to make it happen for existing installs without destroying user config
[13:26] <JontheEchidna> or destroying freedom to choose whether or not they wanted strigi on their 1GB or less machines
[13:30] <JontheEchidna> (People did complain when a bug accidentally caused the patch to always disable strigi on 1GB systems, period)
[13:58] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Kubuntu+Lucid?content=123354
[13:58] <Quintasan> why we are not using it >_<
[13:58] <Quintasan> :P
[14:07] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: there is the part about us being in every freeze ever when it was released ;P
[14:07] <Quintasan> who cares
[14:07] <Quintasan> :P
[14:07] <Quintasan> it looks awesome
[14:07] <Quintasan> goes with our plymouth theme
[14:08] <Quintasan> well, I think it's time to start reading some Qt development books
[14:11] <Quintasan> I still don't get why we want KPackageKit, I think Shaman2 could be ready
[14:11] <Quintasan> for Maveric ofc
[14:12] <JontheEchidna> KPackageKit is, at the least, certain to work. (Even if a bit suboptimally)
[14:12] <JontheEchidna> Shaman2 on the other hand doesn't have a backend that can install stuff on a debian system aside from Packagekit
[14:12] <JontheEchidna> Going to shaman2 is making the same mistake that going to KPackagekit was
[14:13] <Quintasan> well, it has, but I will need to poke the guy to get to work or even try helping him (lol no knowledge of C++)
[14:13] <JontheEchidna> e.g. the jump to the new, shiny tech that promises to be the Ultimate Solution (tm)
[14:13] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: I'm working on a shaman backend, as it happens :)
[14:14] <JontheEchidna> http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/playground/sysadmin/shaman/libshaman/backends/qapt/ <- requires playground/libs/libqapt otherwise you'll get the other/old apt backend
[14:15] <JontheEchidna> Currently it's read-only, with the exception that you can check for updates
[14:15] <Quintasan> awesome
[14:15] <Quintasan> I thought we'd like packagekit backend better
[14:15] <Quintasan> I have submitted a patch some time ago
[14:15] <JontheEchidna> well, PackageKit is most of the reason KPackageKit sucks :P
[14:16] <Quintasan> agreed
[14:16] <JontheEchidna> we'd just be trading one face of fail for another
[14:16] <Quintasan> anyways I can help?
[14:17] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: Know anything about the libapt-pkg library?
[14:17] <JontheEchidna> As it stands, if I can get support for installing/removing packages in libqapt, it'd be a fairly complete library
[14:18] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: not really but if it is not really complicated I think I could try to play around with it
[14:18]  * JontheEchidna giggles a little
[14:18] <JontheEchidna> the api is horrible
[14:22] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: let me get it stright, libqapt uses libapt-pkg libs?
[14:22] <Quintasan> and libqapt is used by shaman?
[14:22] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: libqapt is a Qt wrapper over the ugly libapt-pkg api
[14:22] <JontheEchidna> which is then used to implement the shaman backend
[14:22] <Quintasan> oh
[14:22] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: are there any docs for libapt-pkg?
[14:23] <JontheEchidna> mwahaha
[14:23] <JontheEchidna> if you're lucky, some of the libapt-pkg headers may have a bit of docs in the class headers
[14:23] <Quintasan> oh crap
[14:23] <Quintasan> @_@
[14:24] <JontheEchidna> That's the beauty of libqapt. It does all the ugly stuffs, giving you a nice, sane, documented api
[14:24] <JontheEchidna> and it's not limited to shaman. You could conceivably make a standalone package manager with it
[14:24] <Quintasan> libapt-pkg-doc
[14:24] <Quintasan> ?
[14:25] <JontheEchidna> ^Eh, mostly design stuff
[14:25] <JontheEchidna> "How we can make this library suck the most"
[14:26] <JontheEchidna> I've been looking at other things that use libapt-pkg such as synaptic, apt-get and the aptcc packagekit backend for examples
[14:26] <Quintasan> and it sucks?
[14:26] <JontheEchidna> libapt-pkg? No doubt. The libarary was grown, not designed
[14:27] <JontheEchidna> oh, libept is another libapt-pkg wrapper, but not object-oriented enough for my tastes
[14:27] <JontheEchidna> good example though
[14:31] <Quintasan> @_@
[14:31] <Quintasan> really
[14:31] <Quintasan> wtf
[14:32] <Quintasan> d(new BackendPrivate)
[14:32] <JontheEchidna> that's common practice
[14:32] <JontheEchidna> that way you can add/remove new private members later without breaking binary compat
[14:33] <JontheEchidna> http://techbase.kde.org/Policies/Binary_Compatibility_Issues_With_C++
[14:34] <persia> JontheEchidna: libcupt-perl is yet another interface, if you're looking at options.  No idea whether it matches your design preferences.
[14:35] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: okay, I rage quit, I'm too green for this
[14:35]  * Quintasan wonders how to actually start
[14:35] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: Thanks for the interest anyhow. :)
[14:37] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: your code just made me go "lol wtf is this, I don't get it >_<"
[14:37] <Quintasan> 5 WTF's per second
[14:37] <Quintasan> really
[14:37] <Quintasan> :O\
[15:19] <neversfelde> I get an akonadi self test everytime I start kontact, someone else experienced the same problem?
[15:22] <_scottl> neversfelde: yeah it was solved in 10.04 for me
[15:22] <neversfelde> _scottl: this is 10.04
[15:41] <ScottK> apachelogger is the akonadi fixing guru.  I don't have this problem.
[15:51] <apachelogger> entirely depends on what neversfelde's selftest says
[15:51] <apachelogger> also I suspect a one minute timeout for the eventloop to return is still not enough
[15:51] <apachelogger> especially when akonadi/mysql did not shut down properly and does recovering magic
[15:54] <ScottK> If there's something one can do, it seems like decent release note material.
[15:56] <apachelogger> note: mysql is the crap, so akonadi sometimes comes up with weird issues
[15:57]  * apachelogger was talking about krake with this and he also agreed that like 99% of the akonadi issues one might encounter are mysql related
[15:58] <apachelogger> s/about krake with this/about this with krake ;)
[16:04] <debfx> could we add to the release notes that one needs to install kmozillahelper to get the kde integration for firefox (except when using the firefox installer)?
[16:17] <ScottK> debfx: Yes.  That's a perfect release note item.
[16:18] <neversfelde> apachelogger: I messed up my system, have to fix it first and after that I will have a look at the selftest again
[16:19] <ScottK> debfx: claydoh is, IIRC, the person to talk to.
[16:38] <shtylman> ScottK: are you a chromium converter now? :)
[16:58] <ramanK_> Hi there
[16:59] <ramanK_> I have a problem with the brightness of the screen
[16:59] <neversfelde> apachelogger: http://pastebin.kubuntu-de.org/149 The problem is gone after deleting my Akonadi config, so it is probably my fault
[17:01] <ramanK_> If The power profile be the performance mode , and I decrease the brighness , then every minute it increase my display brightness to the maximom
[17:01] <ramanK_> what should I do?
[17:04] <ramanK_> It's vey vey annoying !!!
[17:04] <ramanK_> very very*
[17:05] <debfx> ramanK_: this doesn't happen with other profiles?
[17:05] <ramanK_> debfx: no
[17:06] <debfx> ramanK_: does it only happend when the system is idle?
[17:07] <ramanK_> debfx: no , it's happening all the time
[17:11] <ramanK_> :(
[17:18] <ScottK> shtylman: I'm not fully converted, but I can see the appeal.
[17:18] <shtylman> :)
[17:18] <shtylman> give it time
[17:18] <ScottK> shtylman: Is there a way I can make it so that if I click on a link to a .deb, it just opens in ark instead of downloading the file?
[17:19] <shtylman> hmm... not sure... there might be a way, I don't know off the top of my head cause I always have things download to a downloads folder
[17:20] <shtylman> that way if I need it again I have it
[17:20] <shtylman> I see something called auto open settings
[17:20] <shtylman> but it seems grayed out for me
[17:20] <shtylman> so might be a feature to come
[17:20] <ScottK> It's pretty common for me to need to inspect files like that so I want them to open in ark and not be left laying around afterwards.
[17:20] <ScottK> In Konqueror it's just right click, open with ....
[17:22] <shtylman> how do you do it now in chrome... just download and then click the downloaded item?
[17:22] <shtylman> cause iirc the giant button for the download has an open with option
[17:23] <ScottK> I'll check that out.
[17:23] <ScottK> Maybe I just missed it.
[17:31] <ScottK> I'm seeing a problem here on multiple systems where logoff of a non-admin user fails with some kind of glib error.
[17:31] <ScottK> Did anyone else see it?
[18:35] <lex79> need testers for this bug 551290
[18:45] <shadeslayer> lemme see
[18:46] <shadeslayer> lex79: nope.. but im using the -21 and -20 kernels,so not entirely sure if its reproducable
[18:47] <lex79> uhmm, not sure
[18:47] <shadeslayer> lex79: well his kernel boot command shows hes using the -18 kernel,so i cant say if its the kubuntu-default-settings or the kernel
[18:48] <shadeslayer> other than that,its not reproducable
[18:48] <lex79> I don't know, it works here and works for another user too
[18:49] <shadeslayer> lex79: i had this initially but it was fixed later on...
[18:50] <lex79> slacker_nl: what? the ugly theme with proprietary driver is only fixed in plymouth theme ubuntu, not in kubuntu
[18:50] <lex79> ops sorry, I mean shadeslayer :)
[18:51] <lex79> you should still have that bug, not anymore with my package
[18:51] <shadeslayer> lex79: uh whut! i dont have it \o/
[18:51] <shadeslayer> magic....
[18:52] <lex79> :)
[18:52] <shadeslayer> 1:10.04ubuntu23 << version of kubuntu default settings
[18:55] <lex79> shadeslayer: which driver you use?
[18:56] <shadeslayer> lex79: well i was using the nvidia driver till i added the xorg edgers ppa and switched to nouveau
[18:56] <apachelogger> neversfelde: looks like your database was busted beyond scope anyway
[18:56] <apachelogger> 100425 17:22:50 [Warning] Can't open and lock time zone table: Table 'mysql.time_zone_leap_second' doesn't exist trying to live without them
[18:56] <apachelogger> 100425 17:22:50 [ERROR] Can't open and lock privilege tables: Table 'mysql.servers' doesn't exi
[18:56] <lex79> shadeslayer: that bug is only with proprietary driver
[18:56] <apachelogger> that should not happen with our update and init and whatnot scripts
[18:56] <lex79> shadeslayer: you can't test my fix if you don't use proprietary
[18:57] <shadeslayer> lex79: but the fact remains,that i didnt have that ugly screenshot with the proprietary drivers
[18:57] <apachelogger> so I must assume it happens because the database is so badly broken that even the system tables are b0rked
[18:57] <lex79> shadeslayer: strange
[18:57] <shadeslayer> lex79: yeah,the resolution was 1280x800 something on my 1440x900 LCD
[18:57] <neversfelde> apachelogger: I got this problem on two different machines, probably the google akonadi client is the problem, I will have a look at this
[18:58] <shadeslayer> but it wasnt that bad...
[19:14] <ScottK> No one else has seen problems with non-admin users logging off?  I can replicate it on several machines with KDM/KDE, but not with KDM/Gnome.
[19:19] <lex79> no here
[19:20] <neversfelde> lex79: I can confirm that this nvidia/plymouth problem is fixed with your packages
[19:21] <lex79> neversfelde: do you like the theme? it's not awesome but at least is watchable :)
[19:21] <lex79> neversfelde: can you write your feedback in LP? thanks
[19:22] <neversfelde> lex79: it is better than before :)
[19:22] <neversfelde> lex79: sure
[19:22] <lex79> :D
[19:24] <ScottK> lex79: What video do you have?
[19:24] <lex79> video card? nvidia gtx 260
[19:24] <ScottK> All my failing machines are Intel.  Not sure if it's related
[19:25] <lex79> I don't know... :( I have no problems here with KDM/KDE
[19:26] <ScottK> Anyone else with Intel?
[19:26] <lex79> maybe apachelogger...
[19:30] <persia> ScottK: Can you replicate on a system that *doesn't* have GNOME installed, or just one with GNOME?
[19:31] <ScottK> persia: Both
[19:31] <ScottK> i.e. happens whether Gnome is installed or not
[19:32] <persia> Hrm.  I'll see if I can replicate in a VM.
[19:32] <ScottK> It does not, however, happen when I log out of Gnome with KDM and a non-admin user
[19:36] <neversfelde> lex79: I have Intel hardware
[19:38] <lex79> neversfelde: see the ScottK's problem with login/out with non admin user ^^
[19:38] <neversfelde> ScottK: I'll try to reproduce the problem
[19:38] <neversfelde> :)
[19:38] <ScottK> neversfelde: Thanks
[19:39]  * ScottK is updating a third machine to see how pervasive it is here.
[19:52] <persia> Wow.  I hadn't tried a Kubuntu install in a VM before.  It uses *lots* of RAM.
[19:53] <ScottK> It'll likely settle down once nepomuk's appetite is satisfied.
[19:54] <persia> This is just running the installer on the liveCD, when I thought that was disabled.
[19:55]  * persia usually does installs at 512MB, but has given this a bit more
[19:57] <ScottK> Yes, it is disabled on the live CD
[19:58] <persia> Looking into it a bit, I suspect the issue is really the 3D stuff: I end up doing it in software in a VM, which then requires memory for render space.
[19:58] <persia> (and then apparently hurts performance because of neeting to send the results over the network)
[19:59] <persia> (in summary: don't run Kubuntu Desktop in a VM with VNC and expect the experience one gets with a real install)
[20:00] <neversfelde> ScottK: KDM crashes after logging out my testuser, but that seems to happen randomly and also with admin users
[20:01] <ScottK> neversfelde: OK, so sounds like you get to file a different bug.
[20:07] <ScottK> Yep.  Happens on netbook too.
[20:19] <maco> im being asked on identi.ca to recommend a scanning app for kde. any suggestions? skanlite is all i see in an apt-cache search, and that doesnt seem to do multipage scanning or pdf output, so...?
[20:19] <maco> (i use simple-scan or xsane)
[20:21] <ScottK> skanlite is the most KDEish one.
[20:21] <ScottK> IIRC some KOffice app could do that too.
[20:22] <ScottK> maco: gwenview has an import from scanner function.
[20:24] <maco> ok
[20:28] <neversfelde> ScottK: I get the same error message every second time I logout
[20:29] <ScottK> neversfelde: I filed my bug as Bug #569879
[20:29] <neversfelde> yes, already seen this
[20:30] <neversfelde> I will file a second bug tomorrow, but that might be related
[20:38] <ScottK> Riddell: Looks like we have some logout issues that may need to be understood better and release noted if not fixed.
[20:40] <persia> ScottK: I'm going to stop trying to replicate.  I (finally) managed to get the install complete and the non-admin user created, and X crashes.  I'm fairly sure I'd need to test in a more suitable environment (but need to fix my HD on that machine).
[20:41] <ScottK> persia: OK.  Thanks for trying.
[20:41] <ScottK> Don't forget to file the bug about the X crash.
[20:41] <ScottK> Changing to nomodeset in the boot options fixes it.
[20:42]  * ScottK tries on another machine.
[20:46] <persia> Oops.  I already deleted the machine.
[20:46]  * persia was deleting at the time of stopping replication, since that was easier than shutting down or anything.  Silly virtualisation making things too easy.
[20:47] <neversfelde> ScottK: Bug #569897
[20:48] <ScottK> neversfelde: OK.  It appears that my problem doesn't happen every time either.
[20:48] <ScottK> So I'm going to test some more before declaring I have a workaround
[20:49] <neversfelde> good luck and gn8 :)
[20:49] <ScottK> OK, so failed on the second try.
[20:49] <ScottK> Mine by be every other try too.
[22:38] <DarkwingDuck> jjesse: ping
[23:20] <apachelogger> fooey
[23:21]  * apachelogger forgot about a deadline and just managed to dump a heuristic evaluation because dearest svn discouraged him from commiting that stuff right away :(
[23:21] <apachelogger> life--
[23:22] <apachelogger> ah
[23:22] <apachelogger> good thing I have all that stuff in a repo itself ^^


[11:14] <jenda> juliux: ping
[11:14] <jenda> Tamtadadaaa!
[11:14] <jenda> I've got your stickers.
[11:14] <jenda> Still want them?
[11:19]  * shahriar86 raise his ear hearing about the stickers
[12:14] <jenda> shahriar86: you can email me (or, soon, juliux) if you'd like to buy some. I'll archive the email and get to it eventually.. :)
[12:15] <jenda> the downside is that I've had orders lying around for about 8 months
[12:15] <juliux> jenda: sure
[12:15] <shahriar86> ok then. I just need some more info.. when where and how I will get them and such..
[12:15] <juliux> jenda: how much stickers you have?
[12:16] <juliux> jenda: i don't know how much i ordered
[12:18] <jenda> juliux: it's a big pack, I'll have to look into the logs to see what you ordered
[12:18] <juliux> jenda: i will take as much as i can
[12:19] <jenda> ok, good
[12:19] <jenda> then I'll just give you the whole pack and see to satisfy any other orders from what I have left besides.
[12:21] <juliux> ok, but remeber i will not send out any stickers to anybody
[12:21] <juliux> i haven't the time for that
[12:21] <jenda> juliux: ok, ok, ok ;)
[12:21] <juliux> jenda: how much money you get?
[12:21] <jenda> I know what you mean
[12:22] <juliux> i have send out shirts the last two years that was enough for me
[12:22] <jenda> juliux: I'm not sure, I didn't pay for them yet, I'll have to wait for the quote
[12:22]  * shahriar86 is away: Gone away for now.
[12:22] <juliux> ok
[12:25] <jenda> Looks like there are about 3800 Ubuntu and 2200 of the rest (estimate
[12:25] <jenda> )
[12:25] <jenda> And one guy in the US wanted 2000, but I don't know if he still does (it's about a year since this order was put down :D)
[12:27] <jenda> One email I have from him says 4400 U, 1600 K, 750 E, 250 X
[12:28] <jenda> juliux: My guess is €330 for 5000 stickers
[12:29] <jenda> or about €470 for 7000 if the U.S. guy doesn't want his.
[12:29] <juliux> jenda: booth is ok for me
[12:29] <jenda> ok, good
[12:30] <jenda> Can you send me your current address by email?
[12:31] <juliux> sure
[12:31] <juliux><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:41] <jenda> yep
[12:45] <juliux> you got mail
[14:18] <juliux> jenda: when can you send out the shirts?