[03:40] <mhz> jdub: pin
[03:40] <mhz> +g
[03:41] <jdub> pong
[04:02] <jsgotangco> ta daaaa
[04:13] <jsgotangco> jdub, ping?
[04:14] <jdub> jsgotangco: pong
[04:14] <jsgotangco> jdub, yo! how are free are you in august?
[04:15] <jsgotangco> oh crap linuxworld
[04:16] <jdub> jsgotangco: dunno if i'll go to that though, long time between it and oscon
[04:16] <jdub> jsgotangco: what were you thinking?
[04:16] <jsgotangco> we're doing an event over here in August, a community hackfest and RMS already confirmed
[04:16] <jsgotangco> late august
[04:18] <jsgotangco> was thinking of other people to invite and splurge
[04:21] <jdub> RMS? sorry, i'm washing my hair that night. ;-)
[04:21] <jsgotangco> stallman
[04:22] <jdub> that was a joke. as in "stallman's coming? thanks but no thanks"
[04:22] <jsgotangco> yeah
[04:22] <mhz> lol
[04:22] <jsgotangco> i knew you wouldn't heh just taking a chance
[04:22] <jsgotangco> dunno why the local folk are fascinated by it
[04:23] <jdub> ah well, one sniff and they'll get over it ;-)
[04:23] <jdub> sounds cool
[04:24] <jsgotangco> ok i'll just think of another event much cooler
[04:24] <jsgotangco> heh
[04:25] <jdub> no, no, dude, this sounds good
[04:25] <jdub> what date?
[04:27] <jsgotangco> we don't have a specific date yet but its in August this year and we already have a campus known for its high-end labs sponsoring the event
[04:27] <jsgotangco> the nice thing is that this school runs its own hotel as well
[04:28] <jsgotangco> just across the campus
[04:28] <jdub> wow, handy ;)
[04:28] <jsgotangco> *which is very nice*
[04:29] <jsgotangco> http://www.dls-csb.edu.ph/
[04:30] <jsgotangco> argghh flash
[04:30] <jsgotangco> http://www.asiatravel.com/philippines/intercenter/index.html
[04:30] <jsgotangco> i'll send you an email about it
[04:50] <mhz> jsgotangco: I wanna see that!!
[04:50] <mhz> it must be paradise for geeks
[04:51] <mhz> you can play sports, use your box, see some girls, have some nice meetings, good internet..cool!
[04:53] <jsgotangco> yeah
[04:53] <jsgotangco> its a very expensive school though
[04:53] <jsgotangco> but you get wifi all over the campus
[04:53] <jsgotangco> and they got 2 labs of edubuntu
[04:53] <jsgotangco> (not ltsp yet though)
[04:56] <jsgotangco> mhz, do you live in the capital?
[04:56] <mhz> well, if Tecnocimiento gets to do what we plan, then we'll start the ITLA (Institute of Free Technology for LatinAmerica) and will defintaly have those features
[04:57] <mhz> but at not expensive costs
[04:57] <mhz> jsgotangco: yup
[04:57] <jsgotangco> wow cool
[05:00] <mhz> as long as you dont get wasted as ollie :D
[05:00] <jsgotangco> wine, women and waltz as they say
[05:00] <mhz> www!
[05:01] <mhz> but you can get women with no wine
[05:02] <jsgotangco> huh? you won her in a bet?
[05:04] <mhz> nope, man.. I let her win me :D
[05:04] <mhz> oopsss! puaj!! she won me sounds lot better than 'win+me' :D
[05:05] <mhz> jsgotangco: you need to come here and see how we treat women.. they are the bosses
[05:05] <mhz> we're servants
[05:05] <mhz> :D
[05:12] <jjesse> evening :)
[05:16] <mhz> hi
[05:20] <jjesse> how are u?
[05:21] <mhz> just very tired
[05:22] <mhz> but I dont wanna go to bed because dapper devel status is in 3.5 hours
[05:22] <jjesse> too bad for me the are always in the middle of my night
[05:34] <mhz> always?
[05:35] <jjesse> i think they all have been at 0800 UTC correct?
[05:40] <mhz> hmmmm
[05:40] <mhz> nope
[05:41] <mhz> i dont think so, jjesse
[05:41] <mhz> but I have missed 99% of them :D
[05:41] <mhz> so i am not good reference
[10:08] <mdke> rob, so you're interested in getting back into some docs?
[10:08] <mdke> good news
[10:08] <rob> :)
[10:09] <mdke> what were you thinking of working on?
[10:09] <rob> I guess I'll get stuck into the desktop guide again
[10:09] <rob> but I'm thinking I'll need my password reset as I *may* not still have my gpg keys
[10:10] <rob> but hold out on that, I haven't tried to import them etc yet
[10:10] <mdke> argh
[10:10] <mdke> you might still have the svn password around somewhere I guess
[10:11] <jsgotangco> bah
[10:15] <mdke> rob, you can always send patches in the meantime, I'll apply em
[10:15] <rob> yeah
[10:17] <jsgotangco> can i send patches to you too? :)
[10:26] <rob> hmm I think I just rm -rf 'ed  my wifes email
[10:26] <rob> oops :(
[10:28] <Kamping_Kaiser> ouch :/
[10:30] <rob> lucky its gmail
[10:31] <jsgotangco> hmm
[10:31] <jsgotangco> when was our last meeting?
[10:31] <mdke> two weeks ago
[10:32] <jsgotangco> what happened there?
[10:32] <jsgotangco> that was probably 5am on my side
[10:33] <mdke> dunno
[10:33] <jsgotangco> oh you werent there
[10:33] <jsgotangco> ?
[10:34] <jsgotangco> no one attends meetings anyway when i arrange one :/
[10:34] <mdke> i can't remember
[10:37] <mdke> the meeting agenda page should tell you
[10:37] <jsgotangco> i only see 1 entry
[10:38] <mdke> eh
[10:38] <mdke> that's for the next meeting, you want the old meetings
[10:49] <mdke> we've had some good work though
[10:51] <jsgotangco> currently no plans for improvement though
[10:56] <mdke> well I certainly plan to try and improve the documents
[10:56] <mdke> i think others do too
[10:59] <jsgotangco> :/
[11:00] <jsgotangco> well the toolchain requires us so for now
[11:00] <jsgotangco> or else we'll have pretty bad translation jobs
[11:01] <mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, it's pretty easy, we can help
[11:01] <mdke> svn diff > name.of.your.patch
[11:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> does that diff everything in svn? or just the working dir?
[11:07] <mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, whereever you type the command
[11:07] <mdke> if you prefer you can do "svn diff filename.xml > name.of.patch
[11:08] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok. *goes to have a play*
[11:08] <Kamping_Kaiser> thanks :)
[11:09] <jsgotangco> im going to re-ogranize this project :/
[11:10] <mdke> huh?
[11:10] <mdke> we need people to write docs right now, not reorganise
[11:10] <jsgotangco> no impact to current work, just some housekeeping :)
[11:11] <jsgotangco> if its ok with you :/
[11:11] <mdke> sure
[11:12] <mdke> but if you want to write more, you can, that's all I'm saying
[11:12] <jsgotangco> huh?
[11:12] <jsgotangco> i've been updating my docs
[11:12] <jsgotangco> !
[11:13] <mdke> yeah, i know
[11:13] <mdke> but you seem keen on doing more, so I was just encouraging you
[11:13] <jsgotangco> i've been doing a lot of writing lately that's why
[11:13] <Kamping_Kaiser> is the help written in docbook or xml proper? (i thought it was docbook, but this is an xml file)
[11:14] <jsgotangco> its always in docbook
[11:14] <mdke> docbook is a declaration of xml
[11:14] <jsgotangco> (with the exception of some yelp templates i believe)
[11:15] <Kamping_Kaiser> so it says "xml version 1.0", and Doctype is docbook - that means that docbook is what we are working with? sorry, i havent used xml before
[11:16] <mdke> yes it is docbook xml
[11:17] <mdke> but you don't need to worry about what it is :)
[11:17] <jsgotangco> just think of it as descriptive markup
[11:17] <jsgotangco> for books
[11:17] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok :)... so follow how other people did it and it should be ok? then i asume run the validate.sh to check..
[11:17] <jsgotangco> heh
[11:19] <mdke> that's right
[11:25] <jsgotangco> mdke, can you modify the preview script when you have time to reflect edubuntu?
[11:25] <jsgotangco> to publish as html
[11:30] <mdke> yes, which docs need doing?
[11:31] <jsgotangco> About Edubuntu and Edubuntu Release Notes
[11:33] <mdke> ok
[11:34] <jsgotangco> thanks :)
[02:50] <mhz_food> jsgotangco: in our LoCo team smurf's server, we have ~/mailaddrs
[02:50] <jsgotangco> ?
[02:50] <mhz_food> jsgotangco: i was told I can use that to provide email redirection @ubuntu-cl.org
[02:50] <jsgotangco> i've heard
[02:51] <jsgotangco> but we don't use smurf's server anymore
[02:51] <jsgotangco> we share servers with the brazilian team on a dedicated server
[02:51] <jsgotangco> i mean space
[02:51] <jsgotangco> (we admin on our own now but the server is still sponsored)
[02:53] <mdke> mhz_food, yes you can, just add them to that file
[02:54] <mhz_food> mdke: hehehe, you always there!
[02:54] <mhz_food> :D
[02:54] <mdke> not always :)
[02:54] <jsgotangco> we actually have so much space at the moment we can even run our own pop3/smtp
[02:54] <mdke> what do you want to know mhz_food ?
[02:54] <mhz_food> nice
[02:54] <mhz_food> the syntax, only
[02:54] <mdke> ok
[02:54] <mdke> assuming you want<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:55] <mhz_food> for example
[02:55] <mdke> do: "mhz<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:55] <mhz_food> duh!!!
[02:55] <mdke> without the ", sorry
[02:55] <jsgotangco> that's only a text file?
[02:55] <mdke> yes
[02:55] <mhz_food> and the MTA's service will automatically refresh?
[02:55] <mdke> mhz_food, that's right yes
[02:56] <mdke> jsgotangco, do you know how to build a pdf? I've tried but failed to install apache fop properly
[02:56] <jsgotangco> oh how neat
[02:56] <mhz_food> gee! I thought the syntax was that simple but two guys told me "each MTA's manages differently"
[02:56] <jsgotangco> mine doesn't run either
[02:56] <mhz_food> Moin2PDF :D
[02:56] <mdke> stupid apache fop
[02:57] <mhz_food> I had to do it, sorry
[02:57] <mhz_food> lol
[02:57] <mdke> this isn't moin!
[02:57] <mhz_food> mdke: i know.. it's just that jsgotangco was here and I had to tease
[02:57] <mdke> your obsession with moin is unhealthy :)
[02:57] <jsgotangco> apache fop is such a pain imo but jeffsch would disagree
[02:57] <mhz_food> mdke: thx for the help with mailaddrs
[02:57] <jsgotangco> speaking of PDF
[02:57] <mdke> np
[02:58] <mdke> jsgotangco, i'll mail jeffsch and ask him how to do it :)
[02:58] <mhz_food> jsgotangco: just to show the good looking CSS.. http://<IP_ADDRESS>/coredump/RecentChanges
[02:59] <jsgotangco> mark johnson of debian wants to work on an xml->pdf toolchain for ubuntu
[02:59] <jsgotangco> but he said its going to be java for sure
[02:59] <jsgotangco> oh well
[02:59] <mdke> jsgotangco, ok, sounds good
[02:59] <mhz_food> mdke: oh yeas, you are right, very subjective issue
[02:59] <jsgotangco> at least not apache fop
[03:00] <mdke> i don't understand java at all
[03:00] <jsgotangco> mhz_food, hmmm what i want to do sometime when i have time is to extend moin like what henrik has been doing
[03:00] <mdke> i have like 5 different packages installed, and I have no idea what they do
[03:00] <mdke> and nothing works
[03:01] <mhz_food> jsgotangco: well, I have sent a 10 paragraph email to henrik yesterday so we can start working on it.. obviously it will take at least a day to respond to all my points :D
[03:01] <mdke> what are you working on?
[03:01] <mhz_food> mdke: you need xml 2 pdf ?
[03:03] <mdke> yes
[05:18] <jsgotangco> Interrogation?
[05:18] <jsgotangco> lol
[05:18] <jsgotangco> wiki? noooooo
[05:19] <jsgotangco> ok not a native speaker i can understand that
[05:19] <jsgotangco> bad choice of words though
[05:35] <mdke> jdub, i've done some basic changes to yelp and sent them to the upstream mailing list to try and get their opinion. have a look: http://mdke.org/images/yelp
[05:35] <mdke> all I've changed is the colour of links and headers
[05:35] <mdke> so far... :)
[05:36] <jsgotangco> color changes depending on theme used?
[05:37] <mdke> yes
[05:40] <jsgotangco> cool we finally get a yelp hacker
[05:40] <jsgotangco> :D
[05:46] <jsgotangco> good night
[07:51] <ompaul> Burgwork, u about?
[07:53] <Burgwork> ompaul, sadly yes
[07:53] <ompaul> ahh don't be like that :-)
[07:54] <Burgwork> what can I do you for?
[07:54] <ompaul> are you in a position to copy thes source of the  faq to something on the wiki so it keeps its formatting
[07:54] <ompaul> give me the name and I'll give it an hour or so
[07:55] <ompaul> I could then throw it back to you
[07:55] <Burgwork> the website faq?
[07:55] <ompaul> aye, its not in wiki format
[07:55] <ompaul> i.e. I can't edit it
[07:55] <ompaul> its locked
[07:56] <Burgwork> it is in moin format and I do have access to an editable copy, but I don't have the password yet
[07:56] <ompaul> okay
[07:56] <ompaul> want to shove it onto wiki where it could be addressed and then I'll say it you can rip it and we can kill that page
[07:57] <Burgwork> let me contact hendrik
[07:57] <ompaul> okay
[07:57] <Kaiser_Sleeps> night all
[07:57] <ompaul> ohh this evening I found the boot options so that is getting its own page in the next 3 mins :)
[07:58] <ompaul> night Kaiser_Sleeps
[07:58] <Kaiser_Sleeps> night
[09:03] <Burgwork> ompaul, ping
[09:03] <ompaul> pong
[09:04] <Burgwork> ompaul, generally best to say "Burgwork pong" so that we get a hint
[09:04] <Burgwork> ompaul, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/FAQ
[09:04] <ompaul> thanks
[09:04] <Burgwork> edit to your hearts content and then I will move it back
[09:04] <ompaul> Burgwork, shall do what I can in the 3/4 of an hour
[09:04] <Burgwork> ompaul, whenever
[09:05] <ompaul> Burgwork,  okay, I will hand it back to you in 18 hours or less
[09:05] <Burgwork> ompaul, just ping this nick when it is done
[09:06] <Burgwork> remember that I am not at this computer on Sat and Sun (hopefully)
[09:08] <ompaul> Burgwork, I am been taken away from here for the weekend (wifes idea) :-)
[09:09] <Burgwork> lucky man
[09:10] <ompaul> I concur
[11:01] <mdke> ompaul, since the website is in moin, you can get the source for any page by attaching "?action=raw" to the url
[11:02] <Burgwork> mdke, yes, but he also needs a way to write back
[11:12] <LaserJock> mdke: I didn't know that, cool tip
[11:40] <mdke> Burgwork, oh, i understood he just wanted to copy the source
[11:48] <Burgwork> mdke, he wants to edit it and push the edits back up. That is where I come in
[11:49] <mdke> i see that now, having read the scrollback
[11:49] <mdke> anyhow, it's a valid tip
[11:49] <Burgwork> yes, it is
[11:50] <mdke> ah
[11:50] <mdke> sorry to hear that
[11:51] <Burgwork> hey, they happen


[00:07] <veebers> wallyworld: ok, so docker login and docker pull work with the image, it's something me or m-k8s is doing. Will dig deeper after food
[00:08] <wallyworld> ok
[00:11] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: sorry, haven't looked at that pr yet - some roofers have turned up to fix a leak.
[00:11] <wallyworld> no rush
[00:33] <wallyworld> kelvin_: here's a small PR to add support for docker cmd/args https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8908
[00:33] <kelvin_> wallyworld, yup, looking now.
[00:47] <kelvin_> wallyworld, LGTM. thanks
[00:57] <veebers> wallyworld: I *think* this originally succeeded getting the image, but container creation failed and it tried again and failed to pull image (TTL for image access?) https://pastebin.canonical.com/p/9khpdhpxCy/
[01:18] <wallyworld> veebers: i have to head out to lunch in about 30 - need any input before i go?
[01:18] <veebers> wallyworld: no, all good. making progress
[01:18] <wallyworld> awesome
[01:18] <wallyworld> you got secret sorted?
[01:24] <veebers> wallyworld: I thought I did, still working on it. Made progress though
[01:27] <wallyworld> onward and upward
[02:21] <veebers> ah shoot, I didn't read the docs (shocker) and appparently you need to run microk8s.reset before snap removing the thing 0_0 I wonder if a reboot will help
[02:23] <thumper> veebers: oops
[02:23]  * thumper goes to make a coffee
[02:27] <balloons> Tell veebers he should really experiment in a sandbox so he doesn't have to reboot his entire machine :p
[03:17] <veebers> wallyworld: would you have some time to chat about the docker bits?
[04:27] <ybaumy> ok this is kinda rant about the localhost kubernetes deployment option with juju or conjure-up... short: it just doesnt work.. longer: why on earth is there a option to deploy on localhost if your tools just cannot do it. has anyone of the devs lately tried to deploy on localhost eg. kubernetes-core? just a small cluster. probably not because its broken.
[04:28] <ybaumy> ok so i dont give up easily.. i read lxd tutorial here for localhost and tried to configure it like that.. then i read github issues of other ppl.. tried that too
[04:28] <ybaumy> i just cant get it to run... then i post on github on a similar problem. but the issue is closed. closed but not answered
[04:29] <ybaumy> there is no tutorial for localhost deployment which just says do this and do that because our software if not able to
[04:29] <ybaumy> s/if/is
[04:30] <ybaumy> annoying is the word im looking for.
[04:30] <ybaumy> its not the first time that open source just fails to provide for users in documentation and so on.
[04:31] <ybaumy> if developers are not able to write documentation then just dont offer options that do not work out of the bo
[04:31] <ybaumy> x
[04:32] <ybaumy> now everybody will say .. heh did you open a issue yet?
[04:33] <ybaumy> no i havent. why? because i was wasting my time on other projects and didnt get a solution or even the devs give an answer that they also dont know what to do
[04:33] <ybaumy> that would be honest and straight forward
[04:34] <ybaumy> so if anyone reads this here. take it as feedback or leave and do whatever you devs do
[04:52] <ybaumy> and this might also be news to you.. system administrator/engineers/architects are not there for you to be the single source of quality control of your code. yes we understand that there are bugs here and there.. but we are not mainly there to deliver feedback about broken software. and yes we know how to use google but if you have to read 4 different websites to be able to use a feature that is not well
[04:52] <ybaumy> documented in the official doc on the software website then you have to realize that something is really not working as intented
[05:05] <wallyworld> ybaumy: i do it every day. what's the issue you are seeing?
[05:08] <wallyworld> my setup is a lxd cloud and then i deploy kubernetes-core bundle. one tweak i do make is to not nest one of the lxd containers
[05:08] <thumper> wallyworld: is that a local tweak to the default bundle?
[05:08] <wallyworld> since support for that i think is kernal dependent (not sure), and it only matters when deploying to real vms
[05:08] <wallyworld> yeah
[05:09] <thumper> perhaps a short discourse post on getting it working?
[05:09] <wallyworld> yup. i didn't realise it was an issue
[05:09] <wallyworld> i just did it for expediency
[05:09] <wallyworld> no need for nested lxd when testing things out
[05:10] <thumper> perhaps we should have a CDK local bundle in the store for people testing it out?
[05:10] <thumper> one that doesn't use nested lxd
[05:10] <thumper> well, one that doesn't specify containers in the bundle
[05:11] <thumper> ybaumy: sorry that you had such a negative experience with it
[05:11] <ybaumy> ok so first /var/run/kubernetes is not created on the master .. then i had to follow this https://github.com/juju-solutions/bundle-canonical-kubernetes/issues/507 https://github.com/juju-solutions/bundle-canonical-kubernetes/wiki/Deploying-on-LXD https://github.com/lxdock/lxdock/pull/49/commits/39b19f90ad8f7331c5e49ba27fba7446be254ea7
[05:11] <wallyworld> thumper: i *think* the guys saif they were going to remove the nested lxd container anyway
[05:11] <ybaumy> https://askubuntu.com/questions/863675/lxc-lxd-and-apparmor-permission-denied-attempted-to-load-a-profile-while-confi https://stackoverflow.com/questions/48190928/kubernetes-pod-remains-in-containercreating-status https://github.com/juju-solutions/bundle-canonical-kubernetes/issues/262
[05:12] <wallyworld> ybaumy: so that's CDK not kubernetes-core?
[05:12] <ybaumy> ybaumy: didnt matter for me.. had the same issues
[05:12] <wallyworld> the kubernetes-core is what i'd recommend to play with
[05:12] <ybaumy> i just searched google
[05:13] <ybaumy> for similar problems
[05:13] <ybaumy> was using kubernetes-core
[05:13] <ybaumy> first stable then edge
[05:14] <ybaumy> i pretty much ran from error to error
[05:14] <thumper> wallyworld: have you changed your default lxd profile like the wiki linked above suggested?
[05:15] <ybaumy> https://github.com/juju-solutions/bundle-canonical-kubernetes/issues/262 this is the latest state i was in
[05:15] <ybaumy> on the bottom
[05:16] <wallyworld> ybaumy: here's my bundle that i tweaked; i simply deployed easyrsa to a new machine (2) instead of a nested lxd https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/5p5W6YnrHF/
[05:16] <ybaumy> the system pods were not starting and then i gave up 2 weeks ago
[05:17] <ybaumy> ok have to try that tonight since i have to go to work in half an hour
[05:18] <wallyworld> i'm not a k8s expert - hyave not seen the error you mention
[05:18] <wallyworld> but i know my tweaked bundle seems to work everytime i have tried
[05:18] <wallyworld> the only change i made is to introduce that new machine 2 instead of using a nested lxd
[05:19] <wallyworld> as deploying locally uses lxd for the top level vms
[05:19] <wallyworld> so no value in nesting
[05:19] <kelvin_> ybaumy, it's worth to have a check if ur lxd version >= 3
[05:19] <ybaumy> wallyworld: well this is the thing i guess. lxd is not working properly
[05:19] <wallyworld> nesting does require special kernal things / privilieges that i do nit fully understand
[05:20] <ybaumy> http://pastebin.centos.org/931976/
[05:21] <ybaumy> those version im using now
[05:21] <ybaumy> juju is beta because i tried stable first and thought that might fix it
[05:21] <thumper> ybaumy: funnily enough the beta channel is behind the release channel just now
[05:21] <thumper> :(
[05:22] <ybaumy> wallyworld: and yes you are right without the changes to lxd i did .. the lxd containers were not even starting
[05:22] <ybaumy> thumper: good to know
[05:22] <thumper> ybaumy: release is 2.4.0
[05:22] <thumper> stable I mean
[05:22] <ybaumy> thumper: i remember getting the mail for the release yes
[05:23] <ybaumy> but the problem is either kube-core or lxd
[05:23] <thumper> to be honest though, rc3 == .0 except the version number
[05:23] <wallyworld> ybaumy: i would be very interested to see if the tweaked bundle file without nested lxd works. let us know
[05:23] <wallyworld> let's rule out nesting as an issue
[05:23] <ybaumy> wallyworld: will post my feedback tonight here in the channel
[05:23]  * thumper has to go make dinner for minions
[05:23] <wallyworld> if there's still an issue wil be easier to find
[05:23] <thumper> see y'all tomorrow
[05:24] <wallyworld> o/
[05:24] <wallyworld> i may be out tonight but will check tomorrow
[05:24] <ybaumy> will be online tomorow morning from 0500-0700 CET here
[05:24] <wallyworld> i'm GMT+10
[05:25] <ybaumy> gotta go work later
[05:26] <kelvin_> wallyworld, can i get u a few minutes?
[05:26] <wallyworld> sure
[05:26] <kelvin_> HO?
[05:26] <wallyworld> yup
[05:53] <anastasiamac> kelvin_: wallyworld: i think u may have addressed this one already https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1764649 right? so we can close it?
[05:53] <mup> Bug #1764649: juju caas remove-relation does not work <juju:New for wallyworld> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1764649>
[06:01] <kelvin_> anastasiamac, yes, it's been resolved, we can close it.
[06:01] <wallyworld> kelvin_: there's a method on application IsRemote() - use that instead of NotFOund check
[06:01] <kelvin_> wallyworld, ok, ic. thanks
[06:04] <kelvin_> anastasiamac, I just closed it. sorry for the confusion.
[07:38] <kelvin_> wallyworld, got a tiny PR, would u help to take a look when u got time? thanks https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8909/files
[09:15] <manadart> stickupkid: This one is almost too trivial for review, but here 'tis anyhow: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8910
[09:18] <stickupkid> manadart: haha - to easy :D
[09:21] <stickupkid> manadart: i've turned on verbosity on tests (-check.v) in a branch, that will hopefully tell me which test is causing most if not all merges to fail
[09:21] <stickupkid> manadart: commit for reference: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8894/commits/abe85287b6053bcc798b49e18a7c846af9a344ae
[09:22] <stickupkid> manadart: i believe it's down to luck if your merge lands now, 1 out of 3 requests tend to merge
[09:26] <manadart> stickupkid: OK, thanks.
[11:24] <manadart> stickupkid: Are you going to land the approved PRs?
[11:25] <stickupkid> manadart: would love too
[11:25] <stickupkid> manadart: $$merge$$ just doesn't like me
[11:26] <stickupkid> manadart: see http://ci.jujucharms.com/job/github-merge-juju/706/consoleFull
[11:26] <stickupkid> manadart: check out this - https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8894
[11:26] <stickupkid> manadart: about 5 merges :(
[11:43] <stickupkid> mandart: it keeps getting stuck in the same place - github.com/juju/juju/cmd/juju/application
[11:45] <stickupkid> jam: any thoughts on the hanging tests when trying to merge?
[11:47] <ybaumy> https://github.com/juju-solutions/bundle-canonical-kubernetes/issues/608
[11:48] <ybaumy> somebody please take a look at this
[11:48] <ybaumy> logs from the cdk field agent are attached
[12:59] <los_> Hi!  I'm using Juju+Maas.  Do I need sudo for any of add-cloud/add-credential as per https://askubuntu.com/questions/1053630/juju-ever-need-sudo-for-install ?
[13:47] <hml> externalreality: good morning - i looked at the pr and responded to some stuff.  did I miss any outstanding questions?
[13:49] <externalreality> hml, good afternoon - Let me check I see you've responded to some stuff but 2 minutes ago
[13:50] <externalreality> hml, let me whats new
[16:13] <stickupkid> rick_h_: in order to differentiate between lxd and lxd-remote for reporting, you might have to be explicit in the cloud spec about which one you want to interact with
[16:15] <stickupkid> rick_h_: https://pastebin.canonical.com/p/Y7JNphH8gr/
[16:18] <rick_h_> stickupkid: looking
[16:19] <rick_h_> stickupkid: k, interactive isn't the normal interactive from add-credential but used in azure as you're sent over to azure to fill out data
[16:19] <rick_h_> stickupkid: or is interactive the trust password setup
[16:19] <rick_h_> ?
[16:20] <stickupkid> rick_h_: interactive in this case is pointing to a file, but yeah, that will be trust password later on
[16:20] <rick_h_> gotcha ok
[16:20] <stickupkid> s/file/cert file/
[16:20] <stickupkid> rick_h_: it's more the fact that we now have two different lxd providers, which i'm not sure about
[16:21] <stickupkid> lxd and lxd-remote
[16:21] <rick_h_> stickupkid: cool
[16:21] <rick_h_> stickupkid: well I'd ask if it's lxd-remote or lxd-cluster it should be?
[16:22] <stickupkid> rick_h_: i guess you could have one node in a lxd-cluster
[16:22] <rick_h_> stickupkid: right, you'd have "turned on lxd cluster"
[16:23] <stickupkid> rick_h_: https://pastebin.canonical.com/p/TnFHbvgMYG/
[16:24] <stickupkid> rick_h_: so when adding a cloud, it will come up with two different cloud types
[16:24] <rick_h_> stickupkid: yea, I think that we need that cluster word since that's the tutorial/wording of setting it up in lxd
[16:24] <rick_h_> stickupkid: hmm, yea...but can you add a lxd? /me looks if that's there currently
[16:25] <stickupkid> rick_h_: ok, that's fine, quick change, but we ok with that setup, because it's a bit weird
[16:25] <rick_h_> stickupkid: right, so lxd doesn't currently show in add-cloud
[16:25] <rick_h_> stickupkid: so it should just be one lxd in there, and I'd use lxd-cluster vs "remote"
[16:25] <stickupkid> rick_h_: which branch?
[16:25] <rick_h_> stickupkid: current 2.4.0 release
[16:26] <stickupkid> ok, that's interesting
[16:33] <stickupkid> rick_h_: glad you noticed that, was a nice easy fix :D
[16:33] <rick_h_> stickupkid: :)
[16:33] <rick_h_> stickupkid: thank you for bringing up something that didn't quite look right
[16:33] <rick_h_> appreciate the eye for "hmmm, this isn't ideal"
[16:33] <stickupkid> rl
[16:33] <stickupkid> rick_h_: https://pastebin.canonical.com/p/X8zV8gFPNk/
[16:34] <rick_h_> stickupkid: yea, that looks peachy to me
[16:34] <stickupkid> rick_h_: that looks better, i'll do some testing, to make sure it works well
[16:34] <rick_h_> stickupkid: <3
[19:56] <knobby> how does juju know where to deploy subordinate charms? Does it somehow figure it out from the relation information in the bundle.yaml?
[20:20] <rick_h_> knobby: exactly. Subordinates don't exist by themselves and only come into play once related to something in the model
[20:23] <knobby> rick_h_: if you don't mind me digging into specifics here, why is it that in https://api.jujucharms.com/charmstore/v5/canonical-kubernetes/archive/bundle.yaml flannel is created on the masters and workers, but not etcd. How does juju know that the relation to etcd doesn't mean to attach flannel to that machine as well?
[20:24] <rick_h_> knobby: looking sec
[20:24] <knobby> no rush, rick_h_
[20:24] <rick_h_> knobby: so when you look at the relation definitions here: https://api.jujucharms.com/charmstore/v5/~containers/flannel/archive/metadata.yaml
[20:25] <rick_h_> knobby: you can see that two of them are "container" scoped which basically means it needs to be installed/setup on the machine for those relations
[20:25] <rick_h_> knobby: but note not for the cni relation which is using etcd for data storage. So it's more like a mysql/postgres db in that relation context. You'd not install your app into the same machine as your data store
[20:25] <knobby> ok, so if you build a subordinate and don't have container scope, you end up with something that won't deploy without placement?
[20:26] <rick_h_> knobby: check out https://docs.jujucharms.com/2.4/en/authors-subordinate-applications and the section "Declaring subordinate charms"
[20:26] <knobby> rick_h_: I completely get the desire not to install on etcd, I just didn't see how juju could determine that was the intent
[20:26] <rick_h_> knobby: even with placement I don't think it'll deploy tbh
[20:26] <knobby> ok, thanks
[20:27] <rick_h_> knobby: so it's doing that because it knows the relation from flannel->etcd is on the endpoint cni, and that the cni endpoint is not container scoped
[20:33] <knobby> thanks, rick_h_
[20:43] <veebers> Morning all o/
[20:50] <hml> morning veebers
[20:52] <thumper> morning team
[20:52] <thumper> veebers: seems we have some confusion around the snap build jobs, see rick_h_'s email
[20:53] <rick_h_> thumper: morning
[20:54] <veebers> thumper: looking now
[20:56] <veebers> rick_h_: ah, it was probably disabled in one of the releases and not re-enabled. Seems like a process failure
[20:56] <veebers> rick_h_, thumper actually I think I may have disabled it during a release as I wasn't so sure myself
[20:56] <rick_h_> veebers: hmm, ok. I didn't know of any reason for a release we'd have stopped the 2.5 dev builds since I started them up after 2.4.0 final
[20:56] <rick_h_> veebers: but maybe they were turned off manually as part of that
[20:57] <veebers> rick_h_: I think I was confused about what might get overwritten and did both jobs,  sorry
[21:00] <rick_h_> veebers: ok, all good.
[21:01] <rick_h_> veebers: I'll have to ponder if we can do any sort of warning flag on this. It's so easy to miss it for a length of time because we're used to the snaps being automatic
[21:02] <veebers> rick_h_: maybe it could be as easy as having a rotating card between teams that we check the output of 'snap info juju' at 1 or 2 standups a week
[21:03] <rick_h_> veebers: but but but, what about a giant dashboard with pretty pictures and things go red when they're not updated after 3 days and if can email everyone and ... or maybe we just check a couple of times a week :)
[21:06] <veebers> rick_h_: hah ^_^, we could put an html file in people.c.c that is either red or green as part of the process if you like, <body style="background-color: red"></body>
[21:08] <hml> who’s the current expert on the juju/interact/pollster code ?  and juju add-cloud schemas?
[21:10] <hml> thumper, rick_h_ , wallyworld ^^  :-)
[21:10] <vino> hi thumper
[21:20] <thumper> vino: you're up early
[21:20] <vino> becuase i slept early.
[21:20] <vino> :)
[21:20] <vino> have a min
[21:21] <vino> its regarding the PR.
[21:22] <vino> thumper: i havent landed it. Apologise. Because the tweaks u have asked me to do. esp the state obj ModelTag().
[21:22] <vino> What you have mentioned is reasonable to add there. But created lots of ambiguity in other facades.
[21:22] <vino> which is not relevant to fix for that PR
[21:23] <vino> however i did push the commit. Still more issues to fix becuase of the ModelTag() addition in state obj.
[21:23] <thumper> I'm not sure I understand
[21:24] <thumper> what are the issues to fix?
[21:24] <vino> ok 1:1
[21:24] <thumper> sure
[21:58] <los_> Is sudo needed for add-credential when you first join Juju->MaaS?
[22:02] <los_> ...I'm getting a permission denied on doing add-credential onto a by-the-book new install
[22:30] <thumper> los_: I don't think so
[22:30] <thumper> permission denied on what?
[22:30] <thumper> los_: and which version of juju?
[22:36] <los_> "Latest" one sec for details.  This on 18.04 for the control node.
[22:41] <los__> Juju is 2.4-rc3-bionic-amd64 and MaaS has no --version (I just installed it yesterday)
[22:42] <los__> I zapped the .local/share/juju between iterations
[22:43] <los__> MaaS version from the webUI is:  2.4.0~beta2 (6865-gec43e47e6-0ubuntu1)
[22:46] <veebers> thumper: could the unit test failures be related to the mongo issues mentioned re: the pr check/merge failures? It seems to largely be the same test(s) failing across the arches
[22:47] <thumper> veebers: which failure is it?
[22:47] <veebers> thumper: rick_h_ mentioned that it appears to be mongo related, when I asked him if it was a ppa add failure that was causing the PR grief
[22:47] <thumper> los_: what is the permission denied error? is there more shown than just that?
[22:48] <los__> thumper: Details here: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1053630/juju-ever-need-sudo-for-install
[22:48]  * thumper looks
[22:49] <thumper> hmm...
[22:50] <los__> thumper: I just zapped my .local/share/juju, did add-cloud, ok, then $ juju add-credentials blah and got "ERROR cannot get current controller name: permission denied"
[22:50] <veebers> thumper: ok, so looks like the PR failures are the same as we're seeing in the ci unit test failures (just a quick eyeball)
[22:50] <veebers> as to the reason of failure I dn't have any more info
[22:50] <los__> This is different than the error in the SO so sorry for that
[22:51] <thumper> los_: there was a bug around people using sudo to do things by mistake and it changing permissions on the user files to root
[22:51] <thumper> we had a bug fix for that recently, but I can't remember exactly where it went
[22:51] <los__> thumper: This page https://docs.jujucharms.com/2.4/en/clouds-maas has the sequence add-cloud, add-credential, bootstrap ... is that right?
[22:51] <thumper> los_: can you pastbin 'ls -al  ~/.local/share/juju/ ' ?
[22:52] <los__> thumper: thanks, that's cool...sudo is a button pushed all too often.  The how-to page (above) didn't say to use sudo but....
[22:52] <thumper> no, it shouldn't need sudo
[22:52] <los__> thumper: Which pastebin is the one that works this week :) ?
[22:52] <thumper> pastebin.ubuntu.com
[22:52] <thumper> that works
[22:52] <thumper> never fails me :)
[22:53] <los__> thumper: oh ok thanks :) was shocked (but shouldn't be) that the "real one" is gone.  Didn't notice!
[22:53] <thumper> there was a real one?
[22:54] <los__> thumper: you know, the various public ones that got wonky and went poof (full of hacks)
[22:54] <thumper> the other thing I'm thinking... is around the validation of the oauth token, but I would have though that if the validation failed, it would have a better error message
[22:54] <thumper> when we add a credential, a validation check is made to the endpoint to check the validity of the credential
[22:54] <los__> thumper: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/SsBcx4SkJk/
[22:55] <los__> thumper: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/Wc5XGysbmX/
[22:55] <thumper> ok...
[22:56] <thumper> how about running the juju add-credential with --debug?
[22:56] <thumper> I think you may have found a real bug... but one the developer didn't hit because they already had a current controller
[22:57] <thumper> but it is weird...
[22:58] <los__> thumper: Glad to... so I do this to get fresh API key: $ sudo maas-region apikey --username=los
[22:59] <thumper> ok
[22:59] <los__> thumper: ...and "los" is a valid (non-admin) user (is that the bug?) that is showing up in the MaaS webUI
[22:59]  * thumper nods
[23:04] <los__> thumper: Here's the (getting longer, most-recent on top) paste with that debug: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/HMQcrQzNWF/
[23:04]  * thumper looks
[23:05] <thumper> los_: looks like you have another file lying around from a previous sudo
[23:05]  * thumper gets particular location
[23:05] <los__> thumper: yay...I was going "Hey, I should strace this..." locations are good tho!
[23:06] <los__> thumper: (It's been like 2 years since I messed with MaaS / Juju and wow, has it changed for the better!)
[23:06] <thumper> ok...
[23:07] <thumper> go and look for /tmp/juju-*
[23:07] <thumper> there may be something like /tmp/juju-store-lock-(hash)
[23:07] <thumper> probably owned by rood
[23:07] <thumper> root
[23:08] <los__> thumper: "23:08:33 INFO  cmd supercommand.go:465 command finished" wo0t!  Tanks!
[23:09] <los__> thumper: So, to the "other bug" :)
[23:09] <thumper> so that was it?
[23:09] <thumper> I think we need a better error
[23:09] <thumper> to lead users to the problem
[23:10] <los__> thumper: I did a bootstrap several times and by the console of the MaaS (I agree!) the config script was "done" in 62 seconds but the lonnnnnnng timeout on the bootstrap had it hang for a go-see-a-movie amount of time
[23:10] <los__> thumper: I have a getting-longer set of notes about somethings I've seen, also errors that a vague etc.  Will supply!
[23:10] <thumper> ok...
[23:10] <thumper> so... when you bootstrap, maas considers it done when it has installed the OS on the machine and handed it off
[23:11] <thumper> juju gets the machine and runs cloud-init on it
[23:11] <los__> thumper: like "los@davros:~$ juju add-credential maas-cloud  <newline> ERROR cloud maas-cloud not valid"
[23:11] <los__> thumper: Right...but the bootstrap command it self takes (1hr?) a long time to "finish"
[23:11] <thumper> what juju is doing is running apt-get update / upgrade on the os
[23:11] <thumper> installing a few packages
[23:11] <thumper> and configuring mongo and the agents
[23:12] <thumper> it shouldn't take an hour...
[23:12] <los__> Right it gets to that point...but then
[23:12] <thumper> unless your internet connection is very small pipe
[23:12] <los__> thumper: So now I'm doing (150Mb/sec): JUJU_LOGGING_CONFIG="<root>=TRACE" time juju bootstrap daleks davros
[23:12] <thumper> oh...
[23:12] <thumper> don't do that
[23:12] <thumper> root level TRACE is a massive firehose
[23:13] <los__> thumper: Doh... (and its deploying 16.04...that's normal-good yah?)
[23:13] <thumper> you only really want to trace particular modules
[23:13] <thumper> yeah, we won't default to bionic until after 18.04.1
[23:14] <thumper> you can ask for bionic though
[23:14] <los__> thumper: nah, its cool, as long as it works :) in a typical way so I can get onto the next (dev) steps...
[23:14] <thumper> for you 1 hour bootstraps
[23:14] <thumper> a thing to do is to ssh in after it is done
[23:14] <thumper> and look at the cloud-init logs to see if we can work out what is taking all the tiem
[23:15] <thumper> /var/log/cloud-init......
[23:15] <los__> thumper: what trace level would be helpful?  Right. I read about the ssh (very cool) I will do a no-trace bootstrap right now.  I have a console monitor plugged into that unit.
[23:15] <thumper> I'm sure one of those has times in it
[23:15] <thumper> just do this:
[23:15] <thumper> time juju bootstrap daleks davros --debug
[23:16] <thumper> that effectively is like <root>=debug
[23:16] <thumper> the controllers will inherit that config
[23:16] <thumper> and debug will be enough
[23:16] <thumper> tracing is too much unless you know what you are looking for, and turn it off again
[23:17] <los__> thumper: got it running with that --debug
[23:17] <thumper> los_: is this your first go with juju 2.x?
[23:17] <los__> (all in all: MaaS is wayyyy faster/better than my previous experiment, and Juju is 10x what it was) Yes.  I was 1.3'ing it I think...lonnnnng time ago
[23:17] <los__> Back when half the info was "watch Jorge's vids"
[23:17] <thumper> haha
[23:18] <los__> thumper: (fetching Juju GUI 2.12.3)
[23:18] <thumper> 2.x is way better than 1.25
[23:18] <los__> thumper: Q: I have the MaaS stack on a sep, 2ndary network.  Does routing need to be on between it and the upstream "real" connection?
[23:18] <thumper> ok, if it is getting to fetch the gui, it is part way there, and I think done after the update/upgrade
[23:19] <thumper> yeah, juju expects to be able to reach out... there are proxy config you can set up if using proxies
[23:19] <thumper> it needs to download the agent binaries from streams.ubuntu.com
[23:19] <los__> thumper: aha, it handled my "no nodes in AZ default" thing well.
[23:19] <thumper> there are ways to bootstrap completely off-line
[23:20] <los__> thumper: hmm...ok let's see how this goes.  (obv'ly it'll be a while with 16.04 loading)
[23:20] <los__> thumper: thanks for the help: I'm glad to get to have a chance at seeing a useful error instead of one of my own making
[23:20] <thumper> well, if it got to fetching the juju gui, 16.04 is up and running
[23:20] <los__> thumper: I'm just going by what is the latest message on the juju...
[23:21] <los__> thumper: well, the MaaS console too says that (Deploying...)
[23:21] <thumper> I *think* the update/upgrade is before fetching the gui
[23:21] <thumper> I don't bootstrap onto maas much myself though
[23:22] <los__> thumper: I think so too.  There'd be nowhere to fetch TO... oh, another thing I noticed, wow, the images are way smaller!
[23:23] <los__> thumper: this is all for a live demo (with 3 node hardware behind plexi sound barrier for drum risers) of MaaS / Juju on Fri at our OKC LugNuts group
[23:23] <los__> thumper: Oklahoma City, USA
[23:23] <thumper> nice
[23:24] <los__> thumper: the console VGA shows its blazing away installing all kinds of packages (was at libc-bin)
[23:25] <los__> thumper: I know too many top-down devs (JS, Python) that are not SysAd/DevOps that need this, and so to show "hey this is not brain surgery...run your stack at home on-demand"  SetiAtHome is my 1st charm I'm working on, then ngrok, then the Flamenco render farm controller for Blender rendering.  The last one won't be done (beast mode with MongoDB etc.) by then.
[23:26] <veebers> anastasiamac: a thought, we could probably update the release process so that a stable release auto updates the bugs (fixed released, move to next milestone if not fix committed etc.). Although I'm not up to speed with the previous discussions surrounding this earlier
[23:26] <thumper> los_: that is very cool
[23:26] <los__> thumper: thanks, trying to share since our local scene is cool and helps me more...
[23:27] <thumper> veebers: we had strong guidance that a bug shouldn't be maked fixed released until it is in a non beta non rc release
[23:27] <los__> thumper: the classic "mysql/mediawiki/haproxy/expose" demo blew these guys minds, esp. when "oh you can make this 100x bigger in minutes"...like for some viral thing that is blowing up...they made funny faces
[23:27] <thumper> veebers: so our .0 release process should go back through the older milestones
[23:28] <thumper> los_: yeah, we need to get better at telling our story around this
[23:28] <thumper> a big focus for us recently has all been around openstack and kubernetes
[23:28] <thumper> los_: have you looked at JAAS?
[23:28] <thumper> jujucharms.com
[23:29] <thumper> there are canonical hosted controllers, so people can just start using the public clouds
[23:29] <veebers> thumper: ack, it would only be for stable releases that we do some sort of automated bug updating etc.
[23:29] <los__> thumper: I tell ya, except for aws being so slow to provision / de- it was a killer demo to these guys esp. when I tore it down to 1/1/1 again.
[23:29] <los__> thumper: YES!  I was shocked to see JAAS!  Its an obvious idea once you see it but it still surprised me
[23:29] <thumper> from the user's point of view, it is one controller
[23:30] <thumper> and many models on that controller, sometimes in different clouds or regions
[23:30] <los__> thumper: right makes sense.
[23:31] <los__> thumper: this is where we are, The Time of The Great Pausing: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/CfzDfNbPqW/
[23:31] <thumper> los_: fyi, we are in the process of moving email discussions to our new discourse instance: discourse.jujucharms.com
[23:32] <thumper> los_: are you installing juju from a snap?
[23:33] <los__> thumper: very cool.  Discourse has come a long way too.  Ok the console of the machine (yes, with --beta and --classic) says something like "Cloud init   v 18.2 finished at..."
[23:33] <thumper> los_: right, you might want to move off --beta to release (or candidate)
[23:33] <thumper> we need to fix our snap channels...
[23:34] <thumper> beta still has rc3 whereas stable is .0
[23:34] <thumper> candidate is latest .1 builds
[23:34] <los__> thumper: Ok I will then... this is the network config: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/fbqB9Vf7zt/
[23:34] <thumper> los_: I think the output of fetching the gui is a lie
[23:34] <thumper> I think it has just looked up the version
[23:35] <los__> thumper: you know, with messages the "liar" is just an old message...needs more messages?
[23:35] <thumper> the time at 28 minutes past is when juju bootstrap was able to ssh into the instance
[23:35] <thumper> and maas should now show it as running
[23:35] <thumper> however,
[23:35] <thumper> this is where juju is now doing the apt update / upgrade
[23:35] <thumper> and installing packages
[23:35] <thumper> downloading mongo etc
[23:36] <los__> thumper: MaaS webGUI is showing the unit on, with Status "Ubuntu 16.04 LTS" and my user
[23:36] <thumper> I *thought* that we had more output on the script when running with --debug
[23:36] <los__> thumper: NOTE: as per before there is no routing between my 192.168.29.X network (upstream to internet) and the 192.168.4.X net with the workers on it
[23:37] <thumper> los_: this might be the cause of the great pause
[23:37] <thumper> do you have a proxy set?
[23:38] <los__> thumper: 18.04 has some strong differences, and I have two serious netplan bugs brewing (outrageous!) but having LOOKED INTO netplan, wow, there's some powerful stuff in there for "oh bond all this together into a bridge and ..." stuff
[23:38]  * thumper nods
[23:39] <thumper> we are rapidly getting out of my knowledge area... sorry
[23:39] <los__> No proxy set, but, I have seen the "set it in clouds.yaml" ...since the workers can reach out via the HTTP proxy and get their stuff (it seems, since all those packages went whirling by)
[23:39] <thumper> sorting out the routing etc
[23:39] <thumper> so...
[23:39] <thumper> perhaps they have outward routing but not inbound?
[23:40] <thumper> if that is the case, it should be fine...(ish)
[23:40] <los__> thumper: no problems... I can set routing between the two interfaces etc...but I had gotten to this point previously by running juju bootstrap with evil sudo...so this is one big improvement that will help me get to the next step
[23:40] <anastasiamac> veebers: yeah, but we could do it f-2-f at sprint. this only applies to .0 releases and we r not likely to b bitten by it more than once until sep
[23:40] <los__> Well there's the httpd proxy in MaaS ...that's the only way they can reach out to the world
[23:40] <thumper> ok...
[23:41] <thumper> then the instances are probably coming up pointing to that proxy...
[23:41] <thumper> which means juju should curl the agent binaries just fine
[23:41] <thumper> los_: I'm going to have to head out shortly, but let us know how it goes
[23:41] <los__> if I control-\ it there are good clues about what it was trying to do, but, I'm gonna let it go and see what timeout natural gives me.
[23:42] <los__> thumper: thanks a ton, seriously, this is "phew" for Friday demo, I'm getting there.
[23:42] <thumper> nice
[23:42] <los__> thumper: dev'ing the charms with aws provider in parallel
[23:42] <los__> thumper: gonna have fun hitting a script and having machines turn on in performance mode and be really annoying
[23:42] <los__> thumper: thanks again.


[09:23] <ogra_> blahdeblah, theer should be debian based images for the beaglebone black ... grab one, write it to SD, fish /lib/modules and /lib/firmware out of the rootfs, format the rootfs partiton, unpack ubuntu core into it and copy the two dirs in place .... that should be enough to get you started
[10:30] <blahdeblah> ogra_: Thanks - any idea about kernel?  Ubuntu core doesn't seem to come with one.
[10:30] <ogra_> just use the debian one, that should be fine
[10:31] <ogra_> (you can indeed also use an ubuntu kernel or even upgrade to one later, but setting up bootloader and kernel is much more complex than just replacing the rootfs)


[00:53] <brousch> I got a lead on a Python/Linux job possibility already. At work, I'm at the stage of Peter after occupational hypnotherapy.
[00:54]  * rick_h_ can't translate that
[00:54] <rick_h_> yay though on the first part?
[01:16] <brousch> Too early to tell, but the speed of finding something is good.
[01:16] <brousch> Second part is an Office Space reference
[01:16] <rick_h_> ah, thanks that helps me place the peter reference
[01:17] <_stink_> yeah i was going through family guy episodes in my head
[01:17] <rick_h_> lol
[01:20] <brousch> This is the entire job description
[01:20] <brousch> need someone with strong development experience working in Python/Linux, not just a general knowledge of the language.  I have suggested 5 years as a minimum.  We currently are working with Python 2.7 and 3.5.
[01:22] <_stink_> i love those minimum year things
[01:22] <_stink_> and by love i mean they are silly
[01:23] <brousch> Yeah, but I have 7
[01:24] <_stink_> then in this one case
[01:24] <_stink_> i fully support applying that rule strictly
[01:25] <brousch> I know maybe 4 people in GR with more time
[01:26] <brousch> Of course there are a dozen or more better Python programmers, but that time requirement ...
[02:43] <cmaloney> 10 years of python 3
[02:56] <jrwren> has it been out that long?
[02:56] <jrwren> it probably has.
[03:17] <rick_h_> Dec 3rd 2008
[03:17] <rick_h_> so not quite
[03:17] <rick_h_> but much more than my guess was going to be 5yr
[03:43] <_stink_> is python 3 out?
[03:43] <_stink_> :P
[13:27] <cmaloney> heh
[13:27] <cmaloney> morning
[23:17] <cmaloney> https://twitter.com/joshacagan/status/761000470705909764


[15:20] <vocaltech> Hi all
[15:23] <vocaltech> I need help to run a digital card from Digium on Ubuntu Trusty Tahr server
[15:24] <vocaltech> I follow several time instructions provided by the manufacturer
[15:24] <vocaltech> but no way to get this device to work properly with DAHDI driver
[15:29] <vocaltech> !uname -r
[15:30] <vocaltech> show kernel version 3.19.0-80-generic


[10:06] <flxfoo> Hi all
[10:07] <flxfoo> I am an issue with "realtion_set" that return an error: TypeError: expected str, bytes or os.PathLike object, not list
[10:08] <flxfoo> on hookenv.py, line 512 _relation_set_accepts_file() code goes through that, seems to reached line 519
[10:09] <flxfoo> then breaks here subprocess.check_call(relation_cmd_line + ["--file", settings_file.name])
[10:09] <flxfoo> I have absolutely no clue why
[10:09] <flxfoo> anyone?


[08:53] <jamespage> gnuoy, https://code.launchpad.net/~james-page/charms/trusty/mysql/forward-compat-xenial/+merge/287311
[08:53] <jamespage> if you have a sec
[12:16] <beisner> jamespage, +1 @ https://code.launchpad.net/~james-page/charms/trusty/mysql/forward-compat-xenial
[12:17] <beisner> jamespage, fwiw, that should unblock our gate on several charm amulet tests that started failing with the python 2 default change.
[15:41] <jamespage> icey, for https://code.launchpad.net/~chris.macnaughton/charms/trusty/ceph-osd/add-encryption/+merge/287483
[15:41] <jamespage> what happens with regards to keys when I turn on that feature?
[15:41] <icey> they get placed in /etc/ceph/dmcrypt-keys
[15:41] <icey> jamespage:
[15:41] <icey> (that's ceph's default key location)
[15:41] <jamespage> generated?
[15:41] <icey> yes
[15:42] <icey> ceph generates keys and drops them in that location if you don't specify otherwise
[15:42] <jamespage> so this deals with the someone steals the disks, but not the server problem
[15:42] <jamespage> ?
[15:42] <icey> yes
[15:42] <jamespage> I'd really love to see an amulet test for this as well
[15:42] <icey> server problem is more complex and will have a subordinate charm that abuses this a bit :)
[15:42] <jamespage> not for every combination but for one would be nice
[15:43] <icey> jamespage: agreed, I'd like to do an amulet that adds a disk and checks that the directory is created methinks
[15:43] <jamespage> +1
[15:43] <jamespage> the change generally looks OK to me
[15:43] <jamespage> I'd be tempted to drop that version check - firefly is now the older supported release of ceph we have
[15:44] <jamespage> so only someone doing something really backward would hit an error there....
[15:44] <icey> then we could remove all of the version checks :)
[15:44] <jamespage> yes I know
[15:44] <jamespage> that would be a nice bit of maintenance todo
[15:44] <icey> how about a sepoarate MP for that :)
[15:44] <jamespage> yes please..
[15:44] <jamespage> but don't add a new one if its not required...
[15:44] <icey> +1 will get the test written, then start working on removing unneeded version checks
[15:45] <icey> what's the cost of an additional (minimal) MP?
[15:49] <icey> do we have any example openstack charms that test differing config? It looks like the config is setup once for all tests, and that the tests all verify with the same config currently in the ceph-osd charm
[15:49] <icey> jamespage: ^
[16:43] <Prabakaran> Hello Team, We are facing issue while we are trying to upload product installer files which has size of more than 700 MB to https://files.support.canonical.com/  The actual issue is file uploading progess will be interrupted in middle of transfer. We have tried both CLI and UI mode of file upload still we are facing this issue. Could someone please advise on this issue.
[16:45] <beisner> icey, ^ re: cost of diff configs ... is that re: amulet tests or unit tests?
[16:46] <beisner> icey, fyi - rule of thumb for amulet tests:  if you need to exercise a topology or a configuration which is significantly different than what we exercise there, then that is a candidate for a mojo spec test.
[16:47] <beisner> icey, otherwise it is actually quite resource-expensive to add an alternate config/topology to exercise against all currently-supported ubuntu+openstack release targets.
[17:21] <kwmonroe> hey cory_fu jcastro:  Prabakaran was asking about videos related to layered charm development.  do we have any recordings (maybe from Ghent) about the layered approach?
[17:24] <kwmonroe> Prabakaran: i found this on our youtube channel -- it may be a bit basic for you, but marcoceppi gives a good overview of layers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzgW1NW1M6A
[17:25] <sparkieg`> there's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRQcERLnbIQ too
[17:27] <jcastro> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzgW1NW1M6A
[17:28] <jcastro> kwmonroe: ^
[17:28] <kwmonroe> Prabakaran: there's a couple for ya ^^  (thx sparkieg` jcastro)
[17:38] <Prabakaran> Thank you all ..
[17:38] <Prabakaran> I will refer those videos...
[17:47] <icey> beisner: I think there may be a confusion in the communication; I'm adding a new single test to verify config stuff
[17:47] <beisner> icey, yep that's all good.
[17:47] <icey> and talking about a separate merge proposal fo removing the unnecessary version checks
[19:38] <bdx> charmers: can we get some review here? --> https://code.launchpad.net/~stub/charms/trusty/postgresql/built/+merge/282588
[19:39] <jose> bdx: THERE YOU ARE!
[19:40] <jose> are you busy atm?
[19:40] <bdx> jose: ehh, define busy .. :-)
[19:40] <bdx> jose: i have a few mins to spare for you, whats up?
[19:41] <jose> I wanted to help you out with your charm, that's it
[20:09] <lazyPower> kwmonroe - ping
[20:10] <kwmonroe> pong lazyPower
[20:11] <lazyPower> kwmonroe - i've heard a lot about this "layer:java" from jcastro - but i think what he means is "interface:java" - https://github.com/juju-solutions/interface-java - and this is a pattern is houdl be adopting when charming up java services right?
[20:12] <kwmonroe> right lazyPower, there are interface providers (openjdk, zulu8, and ibm-jdk), but currently only 1 consumer, layer-ubuntu-devenv
[20:12] <lazyPower> this will be the second consumer I suppose :)
[20:13] <kwmonroe> w00t
[20:13] <lazyPower> ok cool so i just implement the interface, and adjust my metadata accordingly
[20:13] <lazyPower> get some spiffy reactive magic like you have in the interface readme, and build the open-jdk subordinate?
[20:13] <lazyPower> actually, are those java subordinates already listed in the store?
[20:14] <kwmonroe> yeah lazyPower, not promulgated, but openjdk is in my namespace
[20:14] <lazyPower> https://jujucharms.com/u/kwmonroe/openjdk/trusty/6
[20:14] <lazyPower> look at that spiffy little java dude
[20:14] <lazyPower> thanks man, i'll let ya know how i get along with this shortly
[20:14] <kwmonroe> heh, 2 hours on the charm, 2 days on the icon ;)
[20:15] <lazyPower> amir would be proud ;)
[20:16] <kwmonroe> lazyPower: the current (simple) java consumer is here: https://github.com/juju-solutions/layer-ubuntu-devenv -- note the provides: java there because we expect javas to be a subordinate.
[20:16] <lazyPower> ah right, just as iw as putting it under requires
[20:16] <lazyPower> derp
[20:16] <kwmonroe> :)
[20:17] <cory_fu> kwmonroe: We should probably get that openjdk charm promulgated, no?
[20:18] <cory_fu> Otherwise, the ibm-java charm is gonna beat you.  ;)
[20:18] <magicaltrout> hold on, one consumer, just cause I've not bothered publishing my charm yet, doesn't mean there is just one consumer! ;)
[20:18] <kwmonroe> yeah cory_fu, can't have that.  but i think i wanted to revisit the interface: java bits first.  i seem to recall you objecting to the readme..
[20:19] <kwmonroe> and by "readme", i mean "core logic in the interface"
[20:19] <kwmonroe> same same
[20:19] <cory_fu> kwmonroe: What you mean?
[20:19] <lazyPower> six of one, half dozen of the other ;)
[20:19] <cory_fu> magicaltrout: Ha, too right!
[20:19] <firl> lazyPower any ideas when the networking layer might be working with the kubernetes bundles? I am not really able to use it until that gets resolved for me
[20:19] <lazyPower> firl - we're workign on logging infrastructure now
[20:20] <cory_fu> kwmonroe: I don't actually remember what you're referring to, and I didn't open an issue
[20:20] <magicaltrout> the manic Xenial LXD hacking has been in part so I can finish off PDI in a sensible manner
[20:20] <magicaltrout> should have something testable over the next couple of days
[20:20] <firl> kk, if it’s on the roadmap and you want me to test it, let me know.
[20:21] <lazyPower> firl - thats not currently in our backlog, its on the long term roadmap solvables, but we're not scheduling time for it atm. I'll bring it up with marco to see where it sits on our delivery timeline and if we can squeeze it in directly after cycle close
[20:21] <lazyPower> firl - that being said, if you want to get some dev cycles in on it, i'm game to help and we'd <3 the contribution
[20:21] <firl> yeah I would love to, just don’t have the dev cycles either :(
[20:22] <kwmonroe> cory_fu: in the java interface readme, we have example usage for people that are providing the interface (eg, JREs), but we don't document how to consume it.   i think we also wanted to put JAVA_OPTS bits in there for consumers, though i'm fuzzy on that.
[20:22] <cory_fu> Oh, so it really is just README changes?  Yeah, it needs to be improved
[20:22] <kwmonroe> also, this was around the time we were talking connected vs related.  but i think we settled on connected.
[20:22] <cory_fu> But the README on the interface doesn't block the openjdk charm in any way
[20:23] <cory_fu> kwmonroe: Well, now that seems to have gone to "joined" in the big data charms.  We can't ever decide on anything, can we?  :p
[20:24] <kwmonroe> yeah cory_fu, so we should decide pretty quick on that... before magicaltrout and lazyPower get to work.  do you have current objections to .connected?
[20:25] <cory_fu> I don't
[20:25] <lazyPower> too late on "before lazypower"
[20:25] <lazyPower> but i'm sniffing on "java.installed"
[20:25] <kwmonroe> :)  motion carries.  we're connected.
[20:25] <lazyPower> so if thats wrong, speak now :P
[20:25] <magicaltrout> don't make me sad :P
[20:26] <cory_fu> magicaltrout: You ok with "java.connected" as the state name?
[20:28] <kwmonroe> lazyPower: java.installed is set within the providers (like openjdk).  you want to sniff on java.ready.
[20:28] <magicaltrout> i'm okay with whatever you're okay with :P
[20:28] <lazyPower> ah solid
[20:28] <magicaltrout> whats the difference between java.connected and java.installed?
[20:28] <magicaltrout> like, i get installed :P but how would it be installed but not connected?
[20:29] <lazyPower> the step in the dance of communication where the units are aware of one another but may not have all the data required to configure the java service
[20:30] <magicaltrout> cool
[20:30] <magicaltrout> whatever, when it doesn't work i'll just defer to you guys anyway :P
[20:30] <kwmonroe> so... firstly, stop saying java.installed ;)  that doesn't matter for consumers of the java interface.  that's just a thing that the JREs will do to know if they need to install java.  what you guys want (magicaltrout and lazyPower) is to watch for java.ready.  once you see that, you know java has been installed and things like "java_home" and "java_version" are available on the java relation.
[20:31]  * magicaltrout greps his code
[20:31] <magicaltrout> oh yeah
[20:31] <magicaltrout> you're not lying
[20:31] <kwmonroe> :)
[20:31] <magicaltrout> okay, whats the difference between ready and connected :P
[20:32] <magicaltrout> ie: I don't really care, but which do I listen for?
[20:32] <magicaltrout> java.ready i assume from your comment
[20:32] <magicaltrout> in which case I shall ignore you all for ever more
[20:33] <kwmonroe> magicaltrout: you could have your charm report "blocked: waiting on java relation", then @when java.connected @when_not java.ready report "waiting for java to become ready", then @when java.ready report "java in da house"
[20:34]  * lazyPower raises the java roof
[20:34] <magicaltrout> heh
[20:35] <kwmonroe> magicaltrout: so it's just available for you to inform your users when a java relationship is present, but may or may not be ready (apt-get install openjdk can take a few minutes, so people might like to know that the relation is there, but we're waiting on java to ready itself)
[20:35] <magicaltrout> k
[20:42] <lazyPower> kwmonroe - well this is weird. provides:  java: interface: java -  is clearly in my metadata, doesn't look like builder likes it though :(   http://paste.ubuntu.com/15246844/
[20:43] <magicaltrout> https://github.com/OSBI/layer-pdi here's my attempt lazyPower
[20:45] <kwmonroe> lazyPower: i'm not sure what you mean by "provides: java: interface: java", but if you do it like magicaltrout's magicaltrout's metadata and layer.yaml, you should be 2legit2quit.
[20:48] <cory_fu> kwmonroe, lazyPower, magicaltrout: https://github.com/juju-solutions/interface-java/pull/2
[20:49] <kwmonroe> look at the fingers on cory_fu!  i was gonna draft more messages about how the readme is lacking, but you just straight up fixed the problem.  nice.
[20:49] <cory_fu> :)
[20:49] <cory_fu> I was waiting for my spark deployment to fail anyway.  ;)
[20:49] <kwmonroe> ha!
[20:54] <magicaltrout> acceptable fast fingers, acceptable
[20:55] <magicaltrout> now if only kwmonroe had written that readme before the meetup, i'd not have been stuck.... :P
[20:55] <magicaltrout> aww but what would have done in the bar for 5 hours....
[21:03] <kwmonroe> saved a bunch of money, for one.


[02:35] <marcoceppi> HTTPS okay to avoid hash check?
[03:03] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: as long as you are verifying the certificate
[03:03] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: which wget does by default
[03:03] <marcoceppi> what about git clone via GIT+SSH?
[03:04] <SpamapS> Would need to have the ssh server key in the charm.
[03:04] <SpamapS> But then, yes
[03:04] <marcoceppi> cool, cool
[03:04] <marcoceppi> thanks
[03:04] <SpamapS> as long as you have a high degree of confidence that the content is the content you intended
[03:05] <marcoceppi> Like my highschool self, I'm low on confidence :)
[03:06] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: interesting .. who owns the S3 bucket MinecraftDownload ?
[03:06] <marcoceppi> That's Mojang's official bucket
[03:06] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: ok, so if they ever deleted it, could someone else pwn it?
[03:07] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: I think thats just "something to look out for" and not a reason to be worried
[03:07] <marcoceppi> SpamapS:  that's a good question though, I'm not sure
[03:08] <marcoceppi> I'll try that out with my personal vs work AWS accounts, see if names are locked in forever or not
[03:09] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: seems like they should be mutable if you can delete them
[03:09] <marcoceppi> Would make sense
[03:13] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: reviewed proposed change
[03:14] <marcoceppi> SpamapS:  thanks! I understand calling stop and start, but why install? Should I have the check in install to see if it's been "installed" before there?
[03:14] <hazmat> SpamapS, are you in santa clara?
[03:14]  * hazmat is as well
[03:22] <SpamapS> hazmat: haha yes
[03:22] <SpamapS> hazmat: actually I'm at the SJC airport
[03:22] <SpamapS> hazmat: didn't realize pycon was here as well, or I'd have tried to get in touch w/ you guys
[03:22] <SpamapS> hazmat: I did bump into some canonical peeps at the hyatt before realizing charm school was at the hilton across the street. ;)
[03:23] <hazmat> SpamapS, wanna come over, we're all hanging out sprinting
[03:23] <hazmat> i'm sitting next to barryW
[03:47] <SpamapS> hazmat: I'm in the airport. Depart in 1hr. :-P
[03:48] <SpamapS> hazmat: just dropped in for a commando attack on the juju users of silicon valley :)
[03:49] <marcoceppi> If I'm updating a charm, and there's no copyright file, should I throw one in there?
[03:49]  * marcoceppi is not a lawyer
[03:50] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: do you know for sure the license and copyright status of all the files?
[03:50] <marcoceppi> The only files are the hooks and core charm files
[03:51] <marcoceppi> none of them have copyright headers
[03:53] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: where did you get those files?
[03:53] <marcoceppi> heh, http://charms.kapilt.com/charms/oneiric/owncloud
[03:56] <SpamapS> well I-be-damned
[03:56] <marcoceppi> yes, yes you be :)
[03:57] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: can you open a bug in that charm and assign it to koolhead17 ?
[03:57] <marcoceppi> yeah
[03:57] <SpamapS> should not have been promulgated
[03:57] <SpamapS> anyway.. since I'm damned.. I think I"ll go get a mojo burger
[03:57]  * marcoceppi looks sternly at SpamapS for not being perfect
[03:58]  * SpamapS looks hard a-stern ..
[04:00] <marcoceppi> bug opened
[04:00] <marcoceppi> Going to head off, have a safe flight!
[05:07] <koolhead17|away> marcoceppi, hey there
[05:07] <koolhead17|away> hey SpamapS
[05:45] <_mup_> Bug #953732 was filed: Destroying a maas environment results in a traceback <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/953732 >
[12:45] <gary_poster> I'm getting the following error when I try to start a local charm:
[12:45] <gary_poster> 2012-03-13 08:44:12,459 INFO Searching for charm
[12:45] <gary_poster> Invalid value for cache: False
[12:45] <gary_poster> ...well, I'll google first...
[12:46] <gary_poster> Looks similar to https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/952355
[12:46] <_mup_> Bug #952355: Backward incompatible change: existing env boolean values cause total failure <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/952355 >
[12:46] <marcoceppi> gary_poster: Which charm?
[12:47] <gary_poster> marcoceppi, buildbot-master (which we wrote)
[12:47] <gary_poster> looks like something to do with a config value not being a string?
[12:47] <jamespage> gary_poster, yep
[12:47] <gary_poster> ok, looking, thanks
[12:47] <jamespage> basically if juju thinks it might be a boolean it won't let the config value be  string
[12:48] <gary_poster> :-/
[12:48] <jamespage> I hit this in several of my charms when running against juju PPA
[12:48] <jamespage> its also annoying that juju will fail if ANY charm in your repository has this issue - not just the one you are trying to deploy...
[12:48] <jamespage> (that took me a while to figure out)
[12:48] <gary_poster> oof, wow.  jamespage, is there an easy workaround for now?
[12:48] <marcoceppi> jamespage: Oh, that's weird
[12:48] <gary_poster> I mean, even in changing config
[12:49]  * gary_poster goes to look for explicit yaml string syntax, if there is such a thing
[12:49] <jamespage> gary_poster, switch anything that has values 'True' or 'False' to type: boolean
[12:49] <jamespage> rather than string
[12:50] <jamespage> same applies to uncapitalized versions of those literals
[12:51] <jamespage> or don't use true/false
[12:53] <gary_poster> jamespage, ack, thank you.  I don't think it's even in my charms--which charms did you find with the problem?
[12:53] <jamespage> gary_poster, cassandra had it but I've fixed that one
[12:54] <gary_poster> I suppose I could get rid of all the ones I don't currently use...and try to get newer versions of all of them
[12:54] <jamespage> gary_poster, might make sense for the time being
[12:54] <gary_poster> jamespage, ack, thanks again
[12:54] <jamespage> I'm hoping that we might get a fix to sort out backwards compat
[12:54] <jamespage> its a PITA
[12:54] <jamespage> gary_poster, np
[12:55] <gary_poster> agreed on PITA
[13:14] <bbcmicrocomputer> jamespage: ah glad I just checked in here, was about to file a bug report for the same thing :)
[13:15] <jamespage> bbcmicrocomputer, :-)
[13:15] <jamespage> bbcmicrocomputer, both hadoop and hbase suffered from this change
[13:15] <jamespage> I've fixed both up for precise
[13:15] <bbcmicrocomputer> jamespage: ah cool, I'll pull down those updates then
[13:16] <bbcmicrocomputer> jamespage: looked to me like juju was just using the YAML parser and allowing it to coerce config objects to any type, hence not allowed boolean values as strings
[13:42] <niemeyer> Good mornings!
[13:47] <bbcmicrocomputer> niemeyer: morning
[13:48] <niemeyer> bbcmicrocomputer: Heya
[14:09] <marcoceppi> R
[14:48] <m_3> marcoceppi: shouldn't that be 'R m8t3' for chat like a pirate day?
[15:18] <marcoceppi> m_3:  I suppose... *rubs chin*
[15:23] <m_3> marcoceppi: :)
[15:37] <SpamapS> m_3: my son was born on talk like a pirate day. Wife was not exactly in the spirit during labor.. but the nurses were all about swabbing the deck and hoisting the mainsail.. ;)
[15:37] <SpamapS> shiver me timbers, thar be a baby!
[15:46] <marcoceppi> How can you tell which charms need review? It would appear almost all the new-charms are awaiting feedback from the authors
[15:49] <jcastro> marcoceppi, it should be new-charm
[15:49] <jcastro> https://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+bugs?field.tag=new-charm
[15:49] <marcoceppi> right, but they all seem to have been turned over
[15:49] <jcastro> check the in progress ones
[15:49] <marcoceppi> k
[15:49] <jcastro> incomplete means not ready
[15:49] <jcastro> oh dude, new. :)
[15:50] <SpamapS> we started on diaspora on the big screen yesterday, sort of a collaborative charm writing experience.. it went pretty well.
[15:50] <jcastro> marcoceppi, looks like Gearman is ready for review
[15:50] <SpamapS> and disaspora is.. nightmarish to setup
[15:51] <jcastro> it looked so not fun
[15:51] <SpamapS> negronjl said it felt a lot like cloudfoundry
[15:53] <m_3> marcoceppi: new-charm tag _and_ status of "new" or "fix committed"
[15:53] <marcoceppi> m_3 jcastro thanks!
[15:53] <m_3> SpamapS: yay!  I totally wanna see diaspora working
[15:56] <SpamapS> m_3: 18 tons of ruby gems to install. :-(
[15:56] <SpamapS> I can't believe rubygems, pear, and pecl, don't use any kind of crypto to secure their downloads
[15:56] <m_3> marcoceppi: been trying to keep it as a conversation... review and update status to incomplete or in progress... then they set status to fix committed for a nother round of review
[15:57] <m_3> SpamapS: use bundler... there's a Gemfile
[15:57] <marcoceppi> m_3: makes sense, easy enough to track
[15:58] <SpamapS> m_3: bundler is what we used
[15:58] <m_3> SpamapS: gem won't check certs on https sources?
[15:58] <SpamapS> m_3: gem doesn't use https
[15:58] <m_3> rhuh?
[15:59] <SpamapS> it didn't last year when I was patching it for some other bugs and I got curious
[16:01] <m_3> I'd have to look... thought most sources were specified via https github urls
[16:01] <SpamapS> m_3: and where does it get those source URLs?
[16:01] <m_3> you can set that in the gemfile
[16:02] <m_3> don't know for the "standard" rubygems.org gems tho
[16:02] <SpamapS> m_3: ok, so I'm more talking about when I type 'gem install foo'
[16:02] <m_3> right... dunno for the stds
[16:03] <m_3> how'd charmschoolsv go?
[16:03] <m_3> how many peeps were working along -vs- osmoting?
[16:04] <negronjl> SpamapS, m_3:  I'll keep working on diaspora.  I'll commit the work soon.  It's a pain in the neck but, I like a challenge :)
[16:05] <m_3> negronjl: cool!
[16:05] <m_3> negronjl: I'll try to drum up volunteers to maintain it going forward
[16:06] <negronjl> m_3:  that would be great !  It's a complicated mess of gems, ruby packages and all other sorts of nonesense
[16:06] <SpamapS> so.. typical charm :)
[16:07] <m_3> negronjl: yeah, hitting a ruby conf later this week... I'll try to drum up help
[16:07] <negronjl> m_3: nice!
[16:11] <m_3> negronjl: were there lots of peeps writing stuff?
[16:12] <m_3> negronjl: or was it mostly people wanting to customize/use existing charms?
[16:12] <negronjl> m_3: Some of the guys kept asking very intelligent questions ( outside of what we were talking about ) which tells me that they were already investigating the use of juju ( and charms ) for their own projects.
[16:12] <m_3> negronjl: awesome
[16:12] <negronjl> m_3: We had some guys that were looking at the existing charms ( couchbase and cassandra come to mind ) to see how they can better the charm.
[16:13] <m_3> dude, that's great
[16:13] <negronjl> m_3: The DataStax guy in particular was already looking for ways to make cassandra better .... that part was awesome!
[16:13] <m_3> how'd we publicize this event?
[16:13] <m_3> sounds like you had a great group of people show up
[16:13] <negronjl> m_3: Some of the business guys here sent email out to their customers ... that was it
[16:14] <m_3> ok, gotcha
[16:14] <negronjl> m_3: indeed ... very smart and technical people.
[16:14] <m_3> cool... thanks for the update
[17:08] <jcastro> SpamapS, are you guys back from travel? like should we have a linkup today?
[17:09] <SpamapS> jcastro: yeah it was a 1 day thing :)
[17:09] <SpamapS> jcastro: I have a team call.. then need to catch up on email. So, probably 90min.. but then yeah I want to chat w/ you and Juan
[17:09] <jcastro> yeah whenevs
[17:09] <SpamapS> negronjl: can you join us from the land of barristas and lattes?
[17:09] <jcastro> just the usual charm team hang out, we'll snag mims
[17:10] <negronjl> SpamapS: here
[17:10] <negronjl> SpamapS: can you guys give me the Hangout URL ?
[17:11] <SpamapS> negronjl: when we start it.. 90 min
[17:11] <negronjl> SpamapS: yeah ... I jumped the gun there didn't I :/
[17:13] <SpamapS> negronjl: perhaps try thinking about baseball..
[17:20] <m_3> ewww
[17:43] <jamespage> so how exactly does the new constraints stuff work?  any good docs on usage yet?
[17:44] <SpamapS> jamespage: I believe there's a spec
[17:45] <SpamapS> hm, not in the trees anywhere.. weird
[17:45] <jamespage> SpamapS, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~juju/juju/trunk/view/head:/docs/source/drafts/placement.rst
[17:45] <jamespage> ?
[17:47] <SpamapS> jamespage: actually yes
[17:47] <SpamapS> that does seem to mention it
[17:47] <SpamapS> though light on implementation details like how to use them
[17:48] <jamespage> SpamapS, agreed
[17:50] <SpamapS> jamespage: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=589386
[17:50] <SpamapS> jamespage: even weirder than needing a restart..
[17:50] <SpamapS> you need *two* reloads
[17:52]  * jamespage faceplants
[17:52] <jamespage> why oh why oh why
[17:52] <SpamapS> jamespage: pretty odd. The recommended solution is to do 'restart' on initial install, and 'force-reload' on upgrades
[17:53] <SpamapS> I think I'll submit a patch for that to Debian and fix it in our packages once we get some clarity on 5.4.0
[17:53] <jamespage> SpamapS, OK - sounds sensible
[17:54] <SpamapS> jcastro: G+?
[17:54] <SpamapS> negronjl: ?
[17:54] <SpamapS> m_3: ?
[17:54] <negronjl> SpamapS: here
[17:55] <SpamapS> actually let me reboot to see if I get my video back
[17:55] <jcastro> SpamapS, give me 5!
[18:03] <SpamapS> hrm..
[18:03]  * SpamapS tries new kernel
[18:10]  * SpamapS rejoices
[18:10] <SpamapS> invites out
[18:13]  * SpamapS lurves audio hell
[18:20] <SpamapS> jcastro: ??
[18:34] <m_3> SpamapS: in a meeting...
[18:51] <m_3> SpamapS negronjl jcastro : damn... just tried to join
[18:52] <SpamapS> dohhhh haha
[18:52] <m_3> miss anything
[18:52] <m_3> ?
[18:52] <negronjl> m_3: too funny
[18:52] <SpamapS> jcastro did a triple lindy
[18:52] <negronjl> m_3: maybe we left 'cause we saw you trying to join
[18:52] <m_3> we were hanging out talking about juju arm tests
[18:52] <m_3> no way!
[18:52] <m_3> I love the triple lindy
[19:22] <_mup_> Bug #954350 was filed: juju bootstrap doesn't ensure zookeeper is installed <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/954350 >
[19:32] <koolhead11> SpamapS, marcoceppi if anyone can update the charm repo with my latest commit, i have added the copyright file!! :)
[19:32] <marcoceppi> koolhead11:  I saw that! I've got an update that will put it in place
[19:33] <koolhead11> marcoceppi, cool!! cheers!!
[21:08] <hazmat> m_3, it feels like the timeout on the charmrunner service watching needs to be increased to account for the container creation
[21:09] <SpamapS> hazmat: hey, ... lxc-start-ephemeral.. why can't we use that in juju instead of lxc-start?
[21:09] <SpamapS> or rather, instead of lxc-clone+lxc-start ?
[21:09] <hazmat> SpamapS, we do lxc-clone
[21:09] <SpamapS> Right, ephemeral is now using overlayfs .. allowing all containers to share the same VFS cache
[21:09] <hazmat> on an ssd its pretty fast to get a new container for a new unit
[21:10] <SpamapS> not about speed
[21:10] <hazmat> the charmrunner is reusing the env, so the template container is still around
[21:10] <SpamapS> cache pressure is intense w/ 7 containers running
[21:10] <SpamapS> think .. laptop w/ 4GB of RAM..  spinning up openstack on that pushes it into swap.
[21:11] <hazmat> doc it hurts when i kick myself ;-0
[21:11] <hazmat> SpamapS,  is that overlay persistent?
[21:11] <SpamapS> hazmat: don't know.
[21:11] <SpamapS> perhaps?
[21:11] <SpamapS> hazmat: aufs was persistent.. so I presume overlayfs (which is supposed to be a replacement) is too
[21:12] <hazmat> i guess i should play around with it
[21:12] <SpamapS> hazmat: tho "lxc-start-ephemeral" suggests that the containers maybe are not.
[21:13] <SpamapS> hazmat: I wonder.. maybe we can mod lxc-clone to use it somehow
[21:13]  * SpamapS wonders why we're re-inventing schroot in lxc's tools
[21:13] <hazmat> SpamapS, yeah.. its creating the overlay in /tmp
[21:26] <SpamapS> hazmat: ok, so in theory, we could just change our usage of 'lxc-clone' to just mount an overlayfs and copy the configs..
[21:27] <SpamapS> hazmat: and then push that back upstream to lxc as '--overlayfs' eventually.
[21:27] <SpamapS> hazmat: one thing that sucks.. overlayfs still doesn't support inotify. :-P
[21:28] <hazmat> SpamapS, we could, but really that should be in the ephemeral script to take an overlaydir option
[21:28] <hazmat> and then we could just use it..
[21:28] <SpamapS> hazmat: except then its not ephemeral :)
[21:29] <hazmat> SpamapS, the only reason its ephemeral is that the script is hardcoded to use a /tmp dir.. else it would be suitable.. but yeah.. point taken
[21:29] <SpamapS> hazmat: tho because the rootfs is a mount, and not static files on disk, we'd need a pre-start for the container that mounts it again.. I think
[21:30] <SpamapS> hazmat: or just accept that they are ephemeral make it an environment option
[21:30] <SpamapS> err.. "and" make it an option
[21:50] <koolhead11> https://github.com/lg/murder  is it possible to use it as charm?
[21:51] <SpamapS> koolhead11: yes it would be an awesome charm!
[21:52] <SpamapS> koolhead11: it might morph into a subordinate once that lands
[21:52] <koolhead11> SpamapS, but how will/can we use it?
[21:53] <koolhead11> i meant a used case kind :PO
[21:55] <SpamapS> koolhead11: probably two parts.. one charm for the tracker server, and then one as the client that distributes files.
[21:55] <SpamapS> koolhead11: dare to dream... if you have a use case.. charm it up.. otherwise.. perhaps leave it for somebody with practical need/experience to make it happen?
[21:56] <koolhead11> SpamapS, shall i put it as whishlist/charm needed?
[22:34] <SpamapS> koolhead11: sure. :)
[22:39] <SpamapS> hazmat: thoughs on bug 952397 .. I saw that you picked it up..
[22:39] <_mup_> Bug #952397: Juju is forcing *ALL* charms in a repo to be perfect to be able to deploy *any* <juju:In Progress by hazmat> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/952397 >
[22:39] <SpamapS> thoughs or thoughts  .. either is fine ;)
[22:40] <hazmat> SpamapS, yeah.. i need to fix up the exception hiearchy to prevent that from reoccuring.. the whole get_charm_from_path returning a charm error if its not a charm screws up the error catching logic to often
[22:41] <hazmat> SpamapS, i'm sprinting on mailman right now at pycon (conference day).. but i'll be back in the swing tomorrow
[22:41] <koolhead11> SpamapS, https://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+bug/954535
[22:41] <_mup_> Bug #954535: Charm needed: murder <charm> <juju> <Juju Charms Collection:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/954535 >
[22:41] <SpamapS> hazmat: cool I figured it was just an error handling issue
[22:42] <SpamapS> koolhead11: thanks!