[05:09] <LucidFox> Ugh, Compiz in Karmic is seriously unstable.
[05:09] <lifeless> as compared to what ? :)
[05:09] <LucidFox> Jaunty.
[05:09] <LucidFox> It keeps crashing.
[05:12] <LucidFox> Guess what, X crashed. May be the NVIDIA drivers...
[05:13] <StevenK> LucidFox: Nvidia drivers + compiz + Karmic for me has been solid ?
[05:14] <LucidFox> Not for me.
[05:14] <StevenK> File a bug with a backtrace from compiz, if one is obtainable?
[05:17] <fabrice_sp_> hmm, surelly a dumb question, but why MOTU can't upload sync from Debian to the archive as a normal package?
[05:18] <StevenK> fabrice_sp_: Because Ubuntu doesn't have a distribution called 'unstable'
[05:18] <lifeless> StevenK: well, you can override that in genchanges
[05:18] <StevenK> Ssshh!
[05:19] <lifeless> fabrice_sp_: because, over-all, we find it easier this way :)
[05:19] <lifeless> fabrice_sp_: there are a number of autoamted changes we make to syncs
[05:19] <lifeless> like the X-Original-blah fields
[05:19] <lifeless> so a sync really means 'make only the expected programmatic changes'
[05:20] <fabrice_sp_> Ok, but they could be made by a script also. I was just trying to remove some work from our lovelly archive admin :-)
[05:20] <fabrice_sp_> admins
[05:20] <lifeless> they have a script ;)
[05:21] <fabrice_sp_> seeing what they paste in the sync request bug report, I can imagine that :-)
[05:52] <micahg> what's the command to make debuild continue a build?
[05:53] <lifeless> there isn't one
[05:53] <lifeless> perhaps you mean something different to what you asked though?
[05:57] <micahg> hmmm
[06:46] <LucidFox> Why is xchat-gnome in main?
[08:31] <fcuk112> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cpufire-applet/+bug/482155 just checking if this is the correct way to do a sync: apt-get source xxx; download new source from debian and extract; cp -r debian from old source to new source; debuild -S -kxxx...  is that the correct way?
[08:38] <directhex> no. a sync re-uses the source package from debian
[08:41] <fcuk112> you mean using uscan -verbose?  what if it can't find anything?  should i be editing something to point to the correct location?
[08:52] <directhex> fcuk112, i mean a sync is something an archive admin does - literally copy-pasting the .orig.tar.gz, .diff.gz and .dsc from debian, into ubuntu
[08:55] <fcuk112> directhex: oic, so we should leave sync requests alone?
[08:56] <directhex> after making them, yes
[08:56] <fcuk112> directhex: i thought it was the same as an upgrade.
[09:02] <porthose_> fcuk112, maybe this will help https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
[09:21] <fcuk112> porthose_: thanks, it's a bit clearer to me now :)
[09:53] <fcuk112> heh so how is an upgrade different from a sync or merge?
[09:57] <geser> what you mean with "upgrade"?
[09:58] <fcuk112> eg. https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgphoto2/+bug/414949 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libavg/+bug/474004 update/upgrade...
[10:00] <geser> if there is a new version of a package in Debian we cans sync it (if there are no Ubuntu changes) or merge it (when there are Ubuntu changes)
[10:01] <geser> if a new upstream version isn't yet pacakged in Debian, we can either wait till it happens or do it ourselves (as ...-0ubuntu1)
[10:01] <ari-tczew> geser: no, libgphoto2 2.4.7 isn't in Debian
[10:02] <siretart`> a change is a change is a change. - IOW: morning, folks!
[10:02] <geser> I know, therefor we have to either wait till it's there (and could sync/merge then) or do it ourselves now
[10:02] <geser> Hi siretart`
[10:02] <ajmitch> hello siretart`
[10:02] <ari-tczew> fcuk112: do you need this quickly? if not, we should fix this in Debian first, then sync
[10:03] <siretart`> hey geser & ajmitch & * :-)
[10:03] <fcuk112> ari-tczew: i'm just looking for stuff to do.  well i guess i'd better start looking at merges then.
[10:06] <fcuk112> siretart`: how long u been working with ubuntu?  i thought i saw a very old bug with your name in it =)
[10:07] <siretart`> fcuk112: I think my first own uploads were for hoary. not sure if I signed them myself or if they were sponsored at that time..
[10:08] <siretart`> I believe that they were sponsored and my key was added during the breezy cycle
[10:12] <fcuk112> old-timer =)
[10:13] <siretart`> ;-)
[10:13] <\sh> harhar...the next time I'll met siretart, I'll just say hello like "Hello Old Man" ;)
[10:13] <\sh> s/met/meet/
[10:14] <\sh> he'll kick me ;)
[10:14] <siretart`> wah! :-)
[10:14] <siretart`> \sh: btw, are you going to fosdem?
[10:16] <av`> ari-tczew, hi
[10:16] <ari-tczew> hi av`
[10:17] <av`> ari-tczew, feel free to do agg merge, or better feel free to forward any patch / delta to Debian so I can include it at next upload :)
[10:17] <av`> ari-tczew, didnt look at Ubuntu's package yet
[10:17] <av`> so not sure what's the delta actually
[10:18] <ari-tczew> ok
[10:18] <\sh> siretart, dunno...when I still do my job here, eventually...if not, then I have other priorities ;)
[10:19] <siretart`> oh
[10:19] <siretart`> i really feel like. oh well
[10:20] <\sh> siretart, first I need to fix my personal issues...tomorrow I have an appointment with a psychotherapist...I'm close to a real nice burn out...
[10:20] <highvoltage> so what exactly is the future of motu? it will continue to exist when all the archive shuffeling is done right?
[10:21] <geser> highvoltage: nobody really knows yet. There is a session scheduled at UDS to discuss this
[10:22] <highvoltage> geser: ok
[10:24] <siretart`> \sh: alles gute!
[10:25] <\sh> siretart, danke :)
[10:25] <geser> highvoltage: the session is on friday, 11am local time if you want to participate remotely
[10:26] <\sh> siretart, btw...if you and your wife do have nothing else to do on 31st Dec 2009, blank invitation to Carine and mine end of year party :)
[10:27] <highvoltage> geser: I'll come and listen in!
[10:28] <highvoltage> geser: yeah I've just been wondering if there are any knowns yet, it seems like an hour is an awefully short amount of time to discuss it, but hopefully it will work out
[10:32] <geser> I assume there will be some small discussions off-sessions and that the sessions is to collect all ideas and proposals from all interested
[10:45] <sebner> geser: ~aloha~ :)
[10:51] <geser> Hi sebner
[10:59] <ari-tczew> av`: bug 484694
[11:12] <siretart`> \sh: oh, thank you for the invitation, but we are already invited for silvester :-(
[11:33] <nicoInattendu> Hi I'm a dev on a sw called Luciole ( https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/luciole). The sw was aprroved since karmic in the universe. Bur I have a major bug, who makes it unusable.
[11:33] <nicoInattendu> How I can summit a fix for the package ? I have the solution almost released
[11:35] <directhex> nicoInattendu, is the package in karmic unusable?
[11:35] <mok0> nicoInattendu: File a bug on the package in Launchpad. Then, attach the patch to the bug.
[11:36] <nicoInattendu> Yes is a bug on karmic.
[11:36] <nicoInattendu> I filled the bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/luciole/+bug/481732
[11:37] <nicoInattendu> How I can attach a patch ?
[11:37] <mok0> nicoInattendu: You can attach a file to the bug report
[11:38] <nicoInattendu> So the modified files only ?
[11:38] <mok0> nicoInattendu: there's a button that will open up a dialogue box, then you choose your patch file
[11:38] <mok0> nicoInattendu: uhm, no
[11:38] <mok0> nicoInattendu: the output of "diff -u"
[11:39] <mok0> nicoInattendu: the output of "diff -u" old_file new_file
[11:39] <mok0> nicoInattendu: or: diff -Nur old_directory new_directory
[11:40] <nicoInattendu> ok . But I dont see the button for patch. I have only the bug attachment.
[11:40] <nicoInattendu> Ok I add the diff to the bug
[11:40] <mok0> nicoInattendu: great, thanks
[11:40] <mok0> nicoInattendu: can you paste the bug number?
[11:41] <nicoInattendu> Yes : #481732
[11:41] <mok0> bug 481732
[11:42] <mok0> nicoInattendu: At the bottom, bolow the box that says "Add comment", there's a little green "plus" and the text "Add an attachment"
[11:43] <mok0> s/bolow/below
[11:45] <nicoInattendu> ok thanks
[11:45] <mok0> nicoInattendu: do you have a fix for bug 481732 as well?
[11:57] <goshawkATPoliMi> hi, is there a more convenient way of knowing what is my arch during package creation instead of testing `uname -m`?
[11:59] <directhex> goshawkATPoliMi, dpkg-architecture ?
[12:00] <goshawkATPoliMi> directhex: how can i sue int my rulez? show i put dpkg-architecture before the test i'll do?
[12:04] <Laney> DEB_BUILD_ARCH
[12:05] <goshawkATPoliMi> thx
[12:10] <nicoInattendu> mok0 : I have a patch for both problems . I go to update It right now
[12:11] <mok0> nicoInattendu: Thanks, please be sure to mention both bugs in the comment
[12:12] <mok0> nicoInattendu: finally, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors (right column, near the top)
[12:16] <nicoInattendu> I create a separate patch for both bugs? Is that correct ?
[12:16] <mok0> nicoInattendu: That's fine
[12:17] <nicoInattendu> I added ubuntu-universe-sponsors . What I do with the bug status ? I set to fix committed ?
[12:17] <nicoInattendu> For the package I meant
[12:17] <mok0> nicoInattendu: Set to "New"
[12:18] <nicoInattendu> Ok , and no assignee so ?
[12:18] <mok0> nicoInattendu: right
[12:18] <mok0> nicoInattendu: a sponsor will pick it up and get an SRU permission for it
[12:18] <nicoInattendu> Thanks a lot for the help.
[12:19] <mok0> nicoInattendu: thank you for the patches
[12:19] <nicoInattendu> I go to google SRU :)
[12:32] <LucidFox> Kubuntu doesn't install PulseAudio by default, does it?
[12:33] <AnAnt> Hello, do the builder on launchpad use sbuild or pbuilder ?
[12:35] <directhex> i think the PPA's use pbuilder? i think?
[12:37] <nicoInattendu> mok0 : Do I attach the verification-needed tag to both bugs ?
[12:38] <geser> sbuild (probably a modified version)
[12:39] <LucidFox> Both the PPA and Ubuntu archive builders use sbuild.
[12:39] <LucidFox> I think they even use the same build servers, no?
[12:39] <tsimpson> servers can either be for PPA use or for distro use
[12:40] <geser> don't know as PPA uses virtualised buildds while the official buildds use non-virtualised ones
[12:40] <tsimpson> but they can be changed between those
[12:40] <directhex> s' all virtualized anyway, so it hardly makes a difference
[13:15] <AnAnt> thanks
[13:19] <EzraR> anytime a Makefile is entered by rules the includes and variables in the makefile get initialized right?
[13:32] <goshawk> in a debian/rules i've         ifeq  ($(DEB_BUILD_ARCH),amd64) but it gives me /bin/sh: Syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")")
[13:32] <goshawk>  what's wrong?
[13:34] <tsimpson> do you have "#!/usr/bin/make -f" as the first line of debian/rules?
[13:34] <goshawk> yes
[13:35] <goshawk> tsimpson: yes
[13:35] <tsimpson> well /bin/sh is giving the error, so it's running in a shell for some reason
[13:36] <tsimpson> "ifeq ($(DEB_HOST_ARCH),amd64)" should work
[13:37] <goshawk> so just substitute BUILD with HOST
[13:37] <goshawk> nope, same thing
[13:37] <tsimpson> well I just copied that from another makefile
[13:37] <goshawk> ifeq  (amd64,amd64)
[13:37] <goshawk> /bin/sh: Syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")")
[13:38] <tsimpson> it should not be running in /bin/sh though, for some reason it is
[13:38] <goshawk> -.-
[13:38] <tsimpson> what if you just try "make -f debian/rules", does that give the same error?
[13:39] <goshawk> goshawk@earth:~/libtango-0.99.8+svn5149~exp1.dfsg$ make -f debian/rules
[13:39] <goshawk> dh_testdir
[13:39] <goshawk> ifeq (,amd64)
[13:39] <goshawk> /bin/sh: Syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")")
[13:39] <goshawk> make: *** [build-stamp-ldc] Error 2
[13:40] <mok0> goshawk: if that statement is in a target and indented, it will be treated as a shell command
[13:40] <mok0> goshawk: put the statement before any targets
[13:40] <goshawk> mok0: yes it's indended in build-stamp-%:
[13:41] <goshawk> ah understood
[13:42] <Laney> goshawk: you need to have something like---
[13:42] <Laney> DEB_HOST_ARCH := $(shell dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_ARCH)
[13:42] <mok0> goshawk: good :-)
[13:44] <goshawk> Laney: it worked withouth the DEB_HOST_ARCH set
[13:44] <goshawk> :D
[13:44] <goshawk> thanks mok0, tsimpson, Laney
[13:45] <Laney> ¬_¬
[13:45] <mok0> \O/
[14:04] <fcuk112> bit confused on which patch to upload, possible options are debdiff x.dsc y.dsc, diff -Nur old_dir new_dir, or the diff.gz created by debuild -S.  what are the differences?
[14:06] <directhex> fcuk112, depends on which type of upload it is
[14:06] <directhex> fcuk112, debdiff preferred for new ubuntu revisions, diff.gz for upstream updates
[14:09] <StevenK> fcuk112: And the first two options you gave ought to produce the same diff.
[14:10] <fcuk112> cool, thanks.
[14:29] <EzraR> finally i fixed this bug but it feels dirty :(
[14:47] <EzraR> this package takes a generic config file and puts it through sed to change vales depending on what platform you are running
[14:47] <EzraR> but its broken
[14:48] <EzraR> the variables dont get pased to the makefile and it leaves blanks instead of values, which causes the program to not work at all
[14:50] <EzraR> im just going to put a good default config file in debian dir install it with a .install and remove the call to the broken makefile
[14:51] <EzraR> does that sound reasonable?
[15:59] <AnAnt> Hello, could someone help me with this build error: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/35826090/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-amd64.pcb_20091103-2%7E2.gbpedd967_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[16:00] <AnAnt> funny thing is that it does not happen in i386 arch
[16:00] <AnAnt> why does dh_install behave differently with non-i386 archs ?
[16:30] <LucidFox> Holy cow, PulseAudio drama on Planet Ubuntu.
[16:40] <Laney> rolleyes
[16:49] <dennis_> hi@all
[16:52] <dennis_> I have a question: How do I package a program wich lib (I am packaging it too) needs the program too?
[16:53] <geser> are the programm and the library two different sources?
[16:53] <dennis_> yes
[16:54] <geser> then package the library first and let the programm build-depend on the -dev package from that library
[16:56] <dennis_> but thats the problem the library needs the program to compile
[16:56] <dennis_> and the program the library^^
[16:57] <geser> oh
[16:57] <dennis_> but they are two sources but one upstream
[16:57] <geser> how does upstream solve this bootstraping problem?
[16:58] <dennis_> I think he has his folders on his pc and so his library finds the program source
[16:58] <dennis_> folder structure
[17:00] <AnAnt> wierd could it be that dh_install -Xstring- could be not working right in non-i386 archs ?
[17:00] <geser> dennis_: does the lib need the source files from the program or the compiled program itself?
[17:01] <dennis_> geser, it needs the program source code
[17:03] <dennis_> geser, how do I package only the source code, is this possible? So maybe the lib could depend on this?
[17:07] <geser> that gets tricky and I don't have currently a good idea how to get it done
[17:09] <dennis_> geser, ok thanks. Good that I am not the only one who is wondering about this ;-)
[17:22] <\sh> dennis_, tell the guy he should write better code ;)
[17:23] <dennis_> \sh, hehe I am not quite sure if he will like that ;)
[17:25] <dennis_> If someone would like to make my day better, please have a look at my packages on revu. My name is dennis-benndorf there....
[17:25] <dennis_> I have uploaded them a few minutes ago
[18:15] <jetienne> q. where can i find the pre-removal script of a already installed package ?
[18:19] <jdong> jetienne: /var/lib/dpkg/info
[18:19] <geser> /var/lib/dpkg/info/$pkgname.prerm
[18:19] <jetienne> jdong: thanks
[18:19] <jdong> sure thing
[18:26] <corp186> At the top of the REVU site it mentions the Next REVU Day is TBD
[18:26] <corp186> what is a REVU day?
[18:28] <fcuk112> REVU is the tool used to vet and check new packages before they are uploaded in the Ubuntu system. We’re told that the idea for the day will be to green-light as many new packages as possible.
[18:30] <corp186> that's what I figured... any idea when it will be determined?
[18:30] <corp186> I have a new package in REVU, and I'm trying to figure out how to get advocates, or even just comments, on it
[19:52] <EzraR> when you purge a dpkg it should not fail because the directory is empty right?
[19:59] <StevenK> EzraR: It really depends what fails and how
[20:06] <EzraR> StevenK: dpkg: warning: while removing gw6c, directory '/etc/gw6c' not empty so not removed
[20:14] <StevenK> EzraR: Oh, that's okay.
[20:19] <EzraR> StevenK: ok...just seems un-tidy
[21:24] <lfaraone> I'm using CDBS with makefile.mk. How do I have the files that the makefile installes in $LIBDIR be moved into /lib? (LIBDIR as set by cdbs puts them in /usr/lib)
[22:30] <yml> good evening I am in the process of creating a package of uWSGI and I am a bit stuck the plan to to create it and upload it to launchpad PPA.
[22:31] <yml> but for now I am stuck at the creation step
[22:31] <yml> I am following this doc : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
[22:32] <yml> I think I have done more or less all the paperwork
[22:32] <yml> I am now at the modification of the rules
[22:34] <yml> I have created a branch where I have added the debian directory
[22:35] <yml> all this is stored here : http://bitbucket.org/yml/uwsgi/src/tip/
[22:35] <yml> it would be amazing if someone could give me a hand
[22:40] <Laney> aw
[22:41] <yml> Laney: is that for me ?
[22:41] <Laney> oh no sorry I didn't even read what you said
[22:41] <Laney> I was 'aw'ing at the latest sound rants
[22:41] <Laney> berating contributors is bad bad form
[22:41]  * Laney hugs dtchen_
[22:42]  * Laney reads what yml has to say
[22:42] <yml> Thanks
[22:42] <Laney> what's the problem?
[22:42] <yml> yes me too because since 9.10 my sound work again
[22:43] <yml> Laney: the main problem is in fact I reach the point where I don't know what to do next.
[22:43] <yml> I think I would need some hand holding
[22:43] <Laney> here's what you should do
[22:44] <yml> in order to compile it from source I need to run make -f Makefile.linux.py26
[22:45] <Laney> rm *.ex *.EX rules docs dirs; cp /usr/share/doc/debhelper/examples/rules.tiny rules
[22:45] <yml> where I think that I can't make the assumption that python level is 2.6
[22:45] <yml> Laney: http://bitbucket.org/yml/uwsgi/src/tip/debian/
[22:45] <Laney> yep
[22:45] <yml> here it is where I stand
[22:45] <Laney> I saw that
[22:46] <Laney> dh_make generates a load of stuff you don't want
[22:46] <yml> I have already removed the one that I am sure I don't want
[22:46] <Laney> go on, take the dive
[22:47] <yml> know I am left with the files that might be useful.
[22:47] <yml> s/know/now/
[22:48] <Laney> good
[22:49] <yml> this sounds like I am not completely off
[22:49] <Laney> so the first thing to do is to set up the build-depends and depends in the control file
[22:49] <yml> Laney: you are in the rules file, right ?
[22:50] <Laney> I'm talking about the control file
[22:50] <Laney> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html#s-control
[22:50] <Laney> read this
[22:52] <yml> Laney: I have added this in control : Depends: python, libxml2
[22:55] <Laney> you need to understand more clearly what to put here
[22:55] <Laney> *Build*-depends is very very important to get right first of all
[22:55] <Laney> but I'm going to bed, maybe someone else can help you
[22:55] <Laney> nn
[22:56] <yml> Laney: thanks
[22:56] <yml> I will hang around here and see if someone can help me
[23:11] <ajmitch> hey dholbach


[12:45] <kwwii> night all
[01:05] <bicchi> I am having a hard time creating a bootable usb flash installation. can anyone help?
[01:07] <bicchi> i am trying to install the regular ubuntu desktop into my machine and the machine can boot from usb.
[03:10] <HappyCamp> Does anyone know if the gutsy archive has any dependency issues?
[03:10] <HappyCamp> I'm getting this:
[03:10] <HappyCamp> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[03:10] <HappyCamp>   dpkg: Breaks: aptitude (< <IP_ADDRESS>-1ubuntu2) but <IP_ADDRESS>-1ubuntu1 is to be
[03:10] <HappyCamp> installed
[03:11] <HappyCamp> Just wondering if this is a known issue or we got issues on our side.
[03:21] <agoliveira> HappyCamp: THis should not happen but it's possible that dependencies break from time to time at this stage.
[03:22] <HappyCamp> agoliveira, Okay.  We are seeing some dependency issues when doing an apt-get install using image-creator
[03:22] <HappyCamp> agoliveira, robr, rob_ https://www.moblin.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=68
[06:05] <miles_> hi
[01:11] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: good morning
[01:12] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: have you pushed your dates patch upstream yet?
[01:12] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Not yet I wanted to know if they are working ok first but I can do it right now if you feel is important to do it fast.
[01:14] <Mithrandir> it would be good to do it now for two reasons: it gives them more time to tell us if they feel the patch is wrong, and secondly it makes it more likely they'll merge it when they get it, since they likely won't have gone very far, development-wise from what the patch is based on.
[01:14] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: however, I didn't see why you commented out a block around the "TODO: multiple calendar UI"; can you tell me why?
[01:16] <agoliveira> No problem, I'll see that.
[01:17] <Mithrandir> and I can't download your claws upload, so can you put it on rookery or another machine that's actually working? :-)
[01:17] <agoliveira> About the comment, I forgot to explain: this is supoort for multiple simultaneous calendars and it does not work in maemo as it works fullscreen.
[01:17] <agoliveira> Really? I tested yerterday...
[01:17] <agoliveira> Let me see...
[01:18] <agoliveira> Crap. It's really down today.
[01:25] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: I've never used our internal machines like rookery, I'll have to set it up. Hold on, please.
[01:28] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: BTW, have you poked someone (doko?) about the missing parts on lpia?
[01:28] <Mithrandir> no, I've fixed them myself.
[01:28] <agoliveira> Cool.
[01:45] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: http://adilson.net/claws-mail_2.10.0-2.tar.gz
[01:45] <agoliveira> http://adilson.net/claws-mail_2.10.0-2.dsc
[01:45] <Mithrandir> have you been in touch with upstream about this too?
[01:46] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: I sent an email yesterday but didn't get answer yet.
[01:46] <Mithrandir> ok
[01:49] <doko> agoliveira: which missing parts?
[01:50] <agoliveira> doko: Don't worry, Mithrandir took care of it but it was a few hildon dependencies missing.
[01:50] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: BTW, I'll apreciate if you tell me a better way to do what I did on debian/rules. It works but don't feel right.
[01:51] <doko> well, thats mobil stuff, not bootstrap stuff.
[01:52] <agoliveira> doko: True.
[02:04] <kwwii_> so how is the keyboard defined and themed?
[02:04] <Mithrandir> it's part of the matchbox-keyboard source.
[02:05] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: for claws?
[02:05] <agoliveira> yes
[02:08] <agoliveira> ok, going to tasks now...
[02:10] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: you never tried to build this in a clean chroot, did you? :-)
[02:14] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: I was using lpia chroot but in this case not really.
[02:14] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Too buggy?
[02:15] <Mithrandir> missing build-dep on libhildon-1-dev, at least
[02:17] <agoliveira> Ouch...
[02:56] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Conf call in 4?
[02:56] <Mithrandir> yup
[03:35] <amitk_> Mithrandir: just received the crown beach
[03:36] <Mithrandir> amitk_: yay you.
[03:37] <bicchi> I am having a hard time creating a usb bootable image. I have downloaded the ubuntu iso, now what?
[03:37] <bicchi> i have a 1 gb flash drive
[03:43] <agoliveira> bicchi: The UME image is already made to run from a USB drive
[03:44] <bicchi> agoliveira: where do i get this image?
[03:44] <agoliveira> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/moblin/ but you may want to try also the image-builder
[03:44] <bicchi> agoliveira: i forgot to mention that i am trying to install the regular desktop edition.
[03:45] <agoliveira> bicchi: So you better ask in another channel. This one is for UME.
[03:45] <bicchi> ok
[03:45] <kwwii> I think that I will try image-builder later tonight
[03:46] <kwwii> as the package depency problems do not appear to be fixing themselves
[03:46] <bicchi> image-builder builds any type of bootable image. is that what is for?
[03:47] <agoliveira> bicchi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/CreatingAnImageForUMEDevice
[03:49] <Mithrandir> kwwii: hmm?  If you run apt-get update, it should work fine now.
[03:49] <kwwii> Mithrandir: hehe, I have been doing that every hour since last night and now it works ;-)
[03:50] <kwwii> well, I did sleep and take time off for lunch ;-)
[03:51] <kwwii> so looking at the source of the keyboard, I see that I can define my own layout (yeah!)
[03:51] <kwwii> I guess that the themeing comes directly from hildon?
[03:52] <Mithrandir> I think it's drawn directly by matchbox-keyboard.
[03:52] <Mithrandir> there's been some talk from the openmoko people about adding a proper theme engine, but unsure where that's going.
[03:53] <kwwii> ouch, that makes things a bit more interesting ;-)
[03:54] <bicchi> agoliveira: If I am running a desktop with amd64, can i build an image for the samsung q1 which is i386 using the image-creator tool?
[03:55] <agoliveira> bicchi: Yes, it uses chroots.
[03:56] <kwwii> Mithrandir: so to start UME in a window, I become the ume user in my chroot and then run sudo DISPLAY=:0 xinit /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc -- /usr/bin/Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 1024x600x32 96 -ac
[03:56] <kwwii> ?
[03:56] <Mithrandir> not sudo
[03:56] <Mithrandir> but otherwise looks right.
[03:59] <kwwii> hrm, I wonder what I am doing wrong :-)
[04:00] <Mithrandir> xhost +SI:localuser:ume ?
[04:01] <kwwii> yes...but is that supposed to be in my chroot or something?
[04:02] <kwwii> it keeps complaining that I have not set the DISPLAY (Xephyr cannot open host display. Is DISPLAY set?)
[04:02] <kwwii> xinit:  Connection refused (errno 111):  unable to connect to X server
[04:02] <kwwii> xinit:  No such process (errno 3):  Server error.
[04:04] <Mithrandir> no, in your host system
[04:04] <Mithrandir> hm, if you call mount, does it list /tmp as bind-mounted?
[04:05] <kwwii>  ... /tmp on /home/chroots/gutsy-mobile-lpia type none (rw,bind)
[04:06] <Mithrandir> if you do ls -l /tmp in the chroot, does it list .X0-lock ?
[04:06] <kwwii> (gutsy-mobile-lpia)root@clive:~# ls -l /tmp
[04:06] <kwwii> total 0
[04:07] <Mithrandir> ls -la
[04:07] <Mithrandir> (sorry)
[04:07] <kwwii> hehe, I could have thought too ;-)
[04:07] <kwwii> (gutsy-mobile-lpia)root@clive:~# ls -la /tmp
[04:07] <kwwii> total 20
[04:07] <kwwii> drwxrwxrwt  4 root root 4096 Aug 17 14:02 .
[04:07] <kwwii> drwxrwxrwt 14 root root 4096 Aug 17 13:47 ..
[04:07] <kwwii> drwxrwxrwt  2 root root 4096 Aug 16 20:40 .ICE-unix
[04:07] <kwwii> drwxrwxrwt  2 root root 4096 Aug 16 20:40 .X11-unix
[04:07] <kwwii> -r--r--r--  1 ume  ume    11 Aug 17 14:02 .X2-lock
[04:08] <Mithrandir> ok, so it's not bind-mounted then
[04:08] <Mithrandir> do sudo umount /home/chroots/gutsy-mobile-lpia ; sudo mount --bind /tmp /home/chroots/gutsy-mobile-lpia/tmp
[04:08] <Mithrandir> (in the host system) and try again
[04:09] <kwwii> it actually popped up a window for a second!
[04:09] <kwwii> error opening security policy file /etc/X11/xserver/SecurityPolicy
[04:10] <kwwii> and it complains about a bunch of missing fonts
[04:11] <Mithrandir> try doing apt-get install dbus-x11 gtk2-engines-sapwood hildon-control-panel hildon-desktop hildon-theme-mobile-basic language-pack-en marquee-plugins matchbox-window-manager mobile-basic-flash sdk-default-icons
[04:11] <Mithrandir> and see if that helps
[04:12] <kwwii> mobile-basic-flash: Depends: libxul0d but it is not installable
[04:13] <Mithrandir> ignore that one, then
[04:14] <kwwii> hrm, when I start it is complains about "Could not create server lock file: /tmp/.X2-lock"
[04:14] <kwwii> I think I accidentaly tried to start it as root
[04:14] <Mithrandir> change the :2 to :3
[04:15] <kwwii> Xephyr: requested screen depth not supported, setting to match hosts.
[04:15] <kwwii> reducing the depth to 16 gets rid of that error
[04:15] <kwwii> but it still only flashes for a second and is gone
[04:15] <Mithrandir> hm
[04:16] <Mithrandir> as root in the chroot, try starting dbus.
[04:16] <Mithrandir> so, be root in the chroot and do /etc/init.d/dbus start
[04:16] <kwwii>  * system message bus already started; not starting.
[04:17] <kwwii> I stopped it and startedit again
[04:18] <kwwii> http://pastebin.ca/661061 is the whole info when it dies
[04:19] <Mithrandir> does ~ume/.xsession-errors contain anything useful?
[04:20] <kwwii> lol, sounds grim, that file....
[04:20] <kwwii> Xsession: X session started for ume at Fri Aug 17 14:17:15 UTC 2007
[04:20] <kwwii> Xsession: unable to start X session --- no "/home/ume/.xsession" file, no
[04:20] <kwwii> "/home/ume/.Xsession" file, no session managers, no window managers, and no
[04:20] <kwwii> terminal emulators found; aborting.
[04:21] <Mithrandir> install ume-config-samsung-q1-ultra
[04:22] <mdz> Mithrandir: ~ume?  all my installs run the X session as root and have no non-system users
[04:22] <Mithrandir> mdz: I've asked kwwii to add a non-root user.
[04:22] <mdz> ah
[04:23] <Mithrandir> I prefer to not do stuff as root unless I have to; UME is going to do the same too once I find the time to fix that bug.
[04:23] <Mithrandir> but I think I'll call it a week now.
[04:25] <kwwii> w00t
[04:25] <kwwii> now it works
[04:25] <Mithrandir> \o/
[04:25] <Mithrandir> great
[04:25] <kwwii> the little of it that is there, at least
[04:25] <kwwii> thanks man, appreciate the time it took you to help me ;-)
[04:27] <kwwii> I guess that once libxul builds I can install the flash stuff too
[04:27] <Mithrandir> it's not completely there yet, but having to walk you through it makes it easier for me to actually see which bits are hard and which could easily be automated
[04:33] <kwwii> I guess one has to install programs individually now that the basic desktop is running?
[04:34] <Mithrandir> yes.
[04:34] <Mithrandir> soonish, we'll have ubuntu-mobile pulling in the right set of packages, but it's been lagging since lots of stuff haven't been built on lpia
[04:34] <kwwii> cool, I'll play around with this a bit. thanks again for the help
[04:36] <kwwii> going to pick up my son's new bicycle soon (he is dancing around outside my office)
[04:40] <amitk_> ever see this error? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34061/
[05:01] <bspencer> kwwii: ping
[05:03] <bspencer> kwwii: ok...so I could say I mixed up the time zones and thought 8am was your 4pm... but actually I just slept in.  horaceli is here when you get back to chat a bit about theme.
[05:04] <horaceli> kwwii, hello. I am here if you are back. we could talk about theme stuff
[05:16] <kyleN> horaceli, kwwii: I am interested in talking about theme stuff
[05:17] <kyleN> for example, I can see that gtkrc and matchbox themes are used
[05:17] <bspencer> kyleN: cool
[05:17] <kyleN> I also notice that some icon theme directories are present, but the implementation doesn't seem complete
[05:17] <kyleN> for example, I don't think (could be wrong) the current icon theme is ever set
[05:18] <kyleN> and the three icon theme dirs present don't seem to implement the fallback architecture
[05:18] <kyleN> so my question overall is: how complete is the current theme implementation?
[05:18] <bspencer> if it is set, it is inadvertent.  I created the hildon-theme-mobile-basic theme from plankton from 0 knowledge of how themes work.  I never set the icon theme.
[05:19] <kyleN> ok
[05:19] <kyleN> i don't know much about themeing, but I am trying to learn
[05:19] <bspencer> and I didn't create it using the hildon tools because I'm not an artist.  So I just changed a few files to get the current UI look (black toolbar, etc).
[05:19] <bspencer> hopefully kwwii  can help us there.
[05:20] <kyleN> yes, I traced many of the current files displayed back to where they reside in the file system
[05:20] <kyleN> by changing them, trial and error mostly
[05:20] <bspencer> ha, me too.  I would also change them to bright pink to see if they were used somewhere I didn't know about
[05:21] <kyleN> I made a list if you're interested
[05:21] <bspencer> maybe we could use a launchpad wiki to track some of this
[05:21] <kyleN> great minds think alike ;)
[05:21] <kyleN> I notice there seem to be lots and lots of image files that are not used... true?
[05:21] <bspencer> yes
[05:21] <bspencer> about 400 of them
[05:22] <kyleN> yes...
[05:22] <bspencer> only the "mb_" ones are the ones I made
[05:22] <kyleN> that's what I guessed.
[05:22] <bspencer> but the menu ones get used, I didn't change those
[05:22] <kyleN> right, for example the calculator app in extras has its icon in /usr/share/icons/gnome/..
[05:22] <bspencer> btw, nice to meet you kyleN.  Have we met before?
[05:23] <kyleN> I don't think so. nice to meet you. I just joined the irc this week
[05:23] <bspencer> have you looked at the hildon slicer tools?
[05:23] <kyleN> no... what are they?
[05:24] <bspencer> the basic idea is to come up with one large png file and it will slice it up into the 500+ small theme files
[05:24] <kyleN> what is the advantage of this as opposed to having lots of files?
[05:24] <bspencer> I guess easier to keep everything together.  One file to manage
[05:25] <horaceli> in this case, deverloper who is creating theme don't need to care about the picture name
[05:25] <kyleN> ok.  is this just a plan at this point or is it implemented?
[05:25] <bspencer> but you also have to have a layout file that details the coordinates of each of the embeded pictures inside the large png
[05:25] <bspencer> it is implemented
[05:25] <horaceli> since the small theme files has unique names for hildon-desktop or other widgets to recognize
[05:26] <bspencer> but the mobile-baisc theme doesn't have a large file yet.  I didn't go back and edit the big plankton png file, I just tweaked the end-result files in the "images" folder
[05:26] <kyleN> what aspects of themeing doees this address, icons and other images, such as backgrounds?
[05:27] <bspencer> icons are a mixed bag and I don't totally know which ones are supposed to be part of the theme and which are not
[05:27] <bspencer> generally the icons go in the icons folders you were talking about, not in the big png file that gets sliced
[05:27] <kyleN> I see. can there be two files that get sliced, in case one needs it?
[05:27] <bspencer> not now.  the tool just takes in a single file iirc
[05:28] <kyleN> is the slicing a run time thing? or is it sliced at build time resulting in lots of files?
[05:28] <bspencer> no
[05:28] <bspencer> build time.   A one-time activity when the png changes.
[05:29] <bspencer> At runtime the theme is like you see in the /usr/share/theme folders
[05:29] <kyleN> ok, so it slices the file up using the config file to set the resulting file names?\
[05:30] <bspencer> horaceli: how do the file names get assigned?
[05:31] <kyleN> I wonder if it would be possible to strip all the unused image files.  For example many that start with "qgn"
[05:31] <bspencer> horaceli_:   how's the network connection going?
[05:31] <ian_brasil> kyleN: do you have this list available somewhere?
[05:31] <horaceli_> not good.
[05:31] <bspencer> kyleN:  yeah, I tried that many (many) times
[05:32] <kyleN> Hi ian. it is in process...
[05:32] <bspencer> but hildon has some bugs which cause bad things to happen when the theming files aren't there
[05:32] <kyleN> oh really?
[05:32] <bspencer> esp with the statusbar
[05:32] <bspencer> you can do it easily.  Just create a "bk" file in the "images" folder and "mv qgn* bk"
[05:33] <bspencer>  /usr/share/theme/mobile-basic/images
[05:33] <bspencer> then restart X
[05:33] <bspencer> (I haven't done this for months.)
[05:33] <kyleN> yes. I was wondering if they can/should be deleted permanently
[05:34] <bspencer> I wanted to quickly reduce the theme to only the pictures that were used
[05:34] <ian_brasil> kyleN: cool , can't wait :)
[05:34] <kyleN> yes, that is a laudable goal!
[05:34] <bspencer> because we don't yet have all of the elements that Nokia has
[05:34] <kyleN> so what is the obstacle to removing them?
[05:34] <bspencer> but there were a few things like menus that I didn't make "mb_" replacements for.  So the menus will get lost.  You'll have to disocver which files belog to the menus and other pieces
[05:35] <bspencer> kyleN: the right way is to understand which theme files the hildon code uses
[05:35] <kyleN> I did figure out which files form the border to application menus and submenus
[05:35] <bspencer> and that isn't obvious to me
[05:35] <bspencer> kyleN:  great information
[05:35] <kyleN> form, I meant, not from
[05:35] <bspencer> that is a good step
[05:36] <kyleN> so, to be a complete idiot, I would ask the following:
[05:36] <bspencer> we should go through the hildon-desktop code and understand what graphics are being called for
[05:36] <kyleN> ok, so it's the hildon-desktop source code?
[05:36] <bspencer> then document how each application should use themes, icons, etc.  That would be a big help and get everyone on the same page
[05:36] <kyleN> I suppose I can download that and look at it
[05:36] <bspencer> yes
[05:37] <bspencer> hildon-desktop is the pkg that sets up the menus, borders, panels, etc.
[05:37] <horaceli_> bspencer, I guess not the only the hildon desktop package, but also the hildon library
[05:37] <bspencer> horaceli:  what is this pkg called?
[05:37] <kyleN> what's the purpose of hildon library?
[05:37] <bspencer> hildon library is whta applications use
[05:38] <bspencer> hildon-desktop is the window management code, panels, plugins, home screen
[05:38] <kyleN> ok
[05:38] <horaceli_> right, application also has hildon menu with a frame
[05:38] <horaceli_> is that right?
[05:39] <kyleN> so the application's menu is from hildon library, we are supposing...
[05:39] <horaceli_> we could figure it out by reading gtkrc and gtkrc.maemo-af-desktop file in /usr/share/theme/mobilebasic/gtkrc
[05:39] <kyleN> and the rest from hildon-desktop
[05:39] <bspencer> horaceli:  right. do you know if that is where the menu is drawn though?
[05:39] <horaceli_> it should be defined in those two files
[05:39] <bspencer> yeah.  but those aren't small :)
[05:40] <kyleN> those gtkrc files specify image files, but not the source code package... right?
[05:40] <horaceli_> right.
[05:41] <bspencer> but some file in the theme folder has the ability to map a class to a particular layout or image
[05:41] <kyleN> bspencer, right
[05:41] <bspencer> maybe it is in the matchbox/theme.xml file.  I can't recall and don't have my device handy
[05:41] <kyleN> gtkrc files map styles to classes and class instances
[05:42] <kyleN> matchbox theme.xml describes window decoration, but I have question about this...
[05:42] <kyleN> the question is that matchbox has four kinds of windows....
[05:42] <kyleN> main, dialog, menu and toolbar (I think)
[05:43] <kyleN> do hildon apps run in a main matchbox window?
[05:44] <kyleN> the matchbox theme file specifies theme stuff for "dialog" window types
[05:44] <horaceli_> https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-theme-plankton/template/template.png
[05:44] <kyleN> and for "message" window types
[05:45] <kyleN> horaceli, is that the nokia slicer png?
[05:45] <horaceli_> we could refer to this picture, it has small pictures combine and list the widget name it belongs to
[05:45] <horaceli_> yes
[05:45] <horaceli_> I think we could refer to that format
[05:46] <horaceli_> and slice our theme up by hildon-theme-tools like maemo does.
[05:46] <horaceli_> since hildon-theme-tools have already in UME
[05:47] <kyleN> ume had hildon-theme-tools?
[05:47] <kyleN> haS
[05:47] <kyleN> this is an interesting idea.
[05:47] <horaceli_> yes
[05:47] <kyleN> I think it may in fact make developing the visual aspects of a theme more easily manageable
[05:47] <horaceli_> I checked the archive, it is already there
[05:48] <kyleN> bspencer, you said you did this for the current them, right?
[05:48] <horaceli_> and also there is a hildon-theme-layout package, which inlcudes a layout config file for hildon-theme-tools to slice up the template.png above
[05:48] <horaceli_> the layout config file mainly defines each small picture's position and size
[05:48] <bspencer> there is no large template.png file for the current mobile-basic theme unfortunately
[05:49] <kyleN> does the config file also specify each resulting files name/location?
[05:49] <horaceli_> bob used the sliced up theme package and added mobile basic pictures
[05:49] <horaceli_> yes
[05:49] <horaceli_> kyleN
[05:50] <horaceli_> with that, art designer will not care about the picture name
[05:50] <kyleN> so, my question is this: why is it easier to maintain a config file, instead of just having separate images? seems like the config file would be a lot of work.
[05:50] <horaceli_> and only focused on the art work
[05:50] <kyleN> true
[05:50] <kyleN> who creates the config file?
[05:50] <horaceli_> we could do that
[05:50] <horaceli_> I could do that
[05:50] <kyleN> good answer ;)
[05:51] <horaceli_> if we are not using default hildon-theme-layout.hehe
[05:51] <bspencer> we need a full time theme master
[05:51] <kyleN> probably do, at that
[05:51] <bspencer> horaceli_: I guess we need to go through the template and identify what we need
[05:51] <kyleN> well, I am thinking about next steps
[05:52] <horaceli_> bspencer, I agree
[05:52] <horaceli_> and remove those that we don't need
[05:52] <horaceli_> like clock, as I know. :-)?
[05:52] <kyleN> but the nokia template is not necessarily the same as what the UME needs, is it?
[05:52] <horaceli_> and volume bar?w
[05:52] <kyleN> why not start with what we know UME needs
[05:53] <bspencer> hm, how do we know what to put in the theme?  clock is a good example.  what apps get theme pieces and what don't?
[05:53] <kyleN> I made a list of what I found
[05:53] <kyleN> one question I have is about themeing apps... is it possible?
[05:54] <bspencer> I guess the apps Nokia "themed" are those embeded in the homescreen or panels
[05:54] <kyleN> in other words UME has a list of images - fine they can be themed. apps add arbitrary new images... how do they get added to UME to be themable?
[05:54] <bspencer> and other applications use the theme window decorations, buttons, etc., but no other app-specific grahpics are in the theme.
[05:54] <bspencer> kyleN:  I don't think so
[05:54] <kyleN> right, app specific images are not themable
[05:55] <bspencer> unless the app has "skin" support
[05:55] <bspencer> but that is mangaed per app
[05:55] <kyleN> aha, a new wrinkle!
[05:56] <kyleN> one possible next step is to take my list of known desktop images and create the png and config file to make it themeable
[05:56] <horaceli_> kyleN,
[05:57] <kyleN> I am not certain whether gtk images fit into this... do they? (button backgrounds etc.)
[05:57] <horaceli_> yes. when the png file is ready, I could create the layout config file to slice it up
[05:57] <horaceli_> maybe backgrounds  are seperate ones.
[05:57] <kyleN> why do they have to be?
[05:58] <horaceli_> good question. :-)
[05:58] <horaceli_> in hildon-theme-plankton, they seperate them
[05:58] <kyleN> question: does the slicer tool let you put the resulting images wherever you want?
[05:59] <horaceli_> but I think it could also be OK to combine backgrounds into template.png
[05:59] <kyleN> if so, it exapnds the reach of theming to include gtk...
[06:00] <horaceli_> the slicer tool only slice the whole png into small pictures. put pictures to somewhere is done by Makefile, I think
[06:00] <bspencer> hm.. by backgrounds you mean panel backgrounds?
[06:00] <kyleN> that's fine. makefile works
[06:00] <bspencer> not the desktop background
[06:00] <kyleN> no, I was thinking GTK widget backgrounds and other widget images
[06:00] <horaceli_> oh, I misunderstand it. :-P
[06:00] <bspencer> ok.  it seems those are in the template.png
[06:01] <kyleN> buttons, menus, combo boxes
[06:01] <horaceli_> yes, bob is right
[06:01] <bspencer> all of these go into the "images" folder too, I think.
[06:01] <bspencer> mm, kyleN -- how does GTK get its theme images... that is a good question
[06:02] <kyleN> yes. in fact I see in the template.png images relating to hildon-specific wdigets, like the contorl bar
[06:02] <bspencer> are these just for Hildon widgets?
[06:02] <horaceli_> it should be defined in gtkrc
[06:02] <kyleN> those are the hildonized gtk widgets
[06:02] <kyleN> yes, gtk has defaults, which are overridden by gtkrc, I think
[06:04] <kyleN> horaceli, how would you figure out the exact locations of images in the png for slicer?
[06:05] <horaceli_> kyleN, is it possible to combine what you have already known of ume needed images into a whole png?
[06:05] <kyleN> yes it is
[06:05] <horaceli_> kyleN, I think I could get the position and size by some picture viewer? :-)
[06:05] <kyleN> ok.
[06:06] <kyleN> if we did this, does this go into the source? I mean, would you check in changes and such?
[06:06] <horaceli_> I always do that, by put mouse on the position and then read the x, y coordinate
[06:06] <horaceli_> yes
[06:06] <horaceli_> I could create the layout config file based the information from the whole png file.
[06:06] <kyleN> do you think we can also remove all the unnecessary images from ume? there seem to be lots and lots
[06:07] <horaceli_> and then call hildon-theme-tools to slice it up
[06:08] <bspencer> we could look at the hildon plankton package and model it.
[06:08] <kyleN> bspencer said there are bugs when some images that are not used are removed... what can we do about this?
[06:08] <bspencer> we can remove what we don't think we need too.
[06:08] <horaceli_> that could be possible, it may need your help to tune the whole png file. if we found some picture is mandatory.
[06:08] <bspencer> no, there are bugs when some images that are used are removed  :)
[06:08] <kyleN> oh, I misunderstood! ;)
[06:09] <bspencer> if you think you've got /the/ list of images, just remove the others in the current "images" folder and see if everything looks the same
[06:09] <kyleN> how can we test removing all unnecessary images? can I just delete them from my target and try to run?
[06:09] <kyleN> ok, but there are also lots in /usr/share/icons
[06:10] <horaceli_> yes, so maybe you could reuse some part in template.png. :-)
[06:10] <kyleN> and what is the purposed of /usr/share/pixmaps ? anyone know?
[06:11] <kyleN> i guess I am hoping to pare out all the unnecessary stuff and simply down to what's really needed in a way that's easily manageable
[06:11] <kyleN> simplify
[06:11] <horaceli_> I thought /usr/share/icons are for icon theme, and /usr/share/pixmaps are for some miscellaneous icons.
[06:11] <horaceli_> but I am not quite sure
[06:11] <bspencer> brb
[06:12] <kyleN> yes, I believe icons is for icon themes, but I don't think the framework really uses/supports that yet
[06:12] <kyleN> i notice that gutsy has a gconf key named icon_theme=Human but not my ume target
[06:13] <kyleN> do we need "miscellaneous" icons though? can't they all be: true themable icons, UME themed images, or app-specific, non-themable?
[06:14] <kyleN> that's three categories: themed icons, themed desktop images, and app-specific images
[06:15] <horaceli_> kyleN, currently we used to put status bar plugin icons in /usr/share/pixmaps, like battery indicator
[06:15] <horaceli_> but maybe it could be packed as an icon theme.
[06:16] <kyleN> yes, and I notice the top left image for the main menu is in there too.
[06:16] <horaceli_> right.
[06:16] <kyleN> if it is a toobar image, it seems like an icon, so maybe we should figure out how to set the icon theme in UME and see if it works
[06:16] <kyleN> I did some experimenting with icon themes.
[06:16] <kyleN> I wrote a simple python app and added it to the Extras menu
[06:17] <kyleN> its desktop file names its icon
[06:17] <kyleN> the icon would appear in the menu when I put it in any of the three present icon theme directories
[06:17] <kyleN> usr/share/icons/gnome .... /usre/share/icons/hildon or /usr/share/icons/hicolor
[06:18] <kyleN> so I think we don't set the icon theme and it looks EVERYWHERE in icons
[06:18] <kyleN> but it should only look in the current icon theme and any fallback icon themes the current theme specifices (I think)
[06:20] <kyleN> does this ring true or am I walking the plank here ;)
[06:20] <bspencer> I nominate you as icon master
[06:20] <kyleN> crap
[06:20] <kyleN> ;)
[06:20] <bspencer> heh
[06:21] <kyleN> so here's a question; do we think UME supports icon themes, if we can figure out how to turn it on?
[06:21] <kyleN> icon themes are a freedesktop standard that is used in gnome desktop
[06:21] <kyleN> does that mean we have it?
[06:21] <bspencer> should it?
[06:21] <bspencer> no idea
[06:22] <cathy_ubuntu> bspencer, are you around?
[06:22] <kyleN> I guess it does, since my icon is found and displayed, but I guess we simply don't ever specifiy the current icon theme or set up the hierarchy
[06:23] <bspencer> cathy_ubuntu: hello.
[06:23] <kyleN> if anyone can tell me how to set the icon theme, I'd be grateful!
[06:24] <cathy_ubuntu> We need some icon pictures for mobile player plugins, can you talk with Jeremy?
[06:26] <kyleN> bspencer, horaceli_, thanks for all this. I'll be working on this and will be on irc next week to follow up with stuff.
[06:27] <kyleN> In general, I think I'd like to propose the following:
[06:27] <kyleN> 1) implement icon themes
[06:28] <kyleN> 2) don't use /usr/share/pixmaps for miscellaneous, but make all images and icons themeable
[06:28] <horaceli> hi, kyleN. u still there?
[06:28] <kyleN> 3) make the master ume png
[06:29] <kyleN> yes
[06:29] <horaceli> i lost connection
[06:29] <kyleN> ok
[06:29] <horaceli> anything I missed?
[06:29] <horaceli> I saw the task 3). :-)
[06:29] <kyleN> yes... a little
[06:29] <bspencer> kyleN, what's your email addr?
[06:29] <horaceli> when will it be available?
[06:29] <kyleN><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:29] <bspencer> thx.
[06:30] <kyleN> I'd like to see if we can agree on a plan of action
[06:30] <kyleN> can I make a proposal of the things we might discuss and possibly do?
[06:31] <kyleN> maybe I can email bspencer and horaceli_?
[06:31] <horaceli> sure. any proposal is welcome
[06:31] <horaceli> my email is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>fyi
[06:32] <kyleN> ok. bspencer, your email?
[06:32] <horaceli><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:32] <kyleN> I'll send something simple out today to you two
[06:33] <horaceli><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:33] <horaceli> :-). the latter is the corrent one
[06:33] <horaceli> thanks, kyleN
[06:34] <kyleN> ok, I have to eat lunch. Thanks to you two.
[06:34] <horaceli> :-). see ya
[06:45] <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: Are you on? Tracking info claims your Menlow was delivered.  Is that right?
[06:52] <agoliveira> Charliefjohnson: Tollef left already but I heard that Amit's board was delivered.
[06:56] <Charliefjohnson> agoliveira: I can't keep track of what time it is where.  The tracking info says one of the sytems is in Helsinki still.
[06:57] <agoliveira> Charliefjohnson: Yes, that's Amit's.
[06:57] <agoliveira> Amit lives in Helsinki, Tollef in Norway (I don't recall the city).
[07:01] <Charliefjohnson> agoliveira: Now I understand.  Thanks.
[09:28] <Ra__> Hello
[09:46] <kwwii> re
[09:47] <kwwii> reading the log now
[09:50] <kwwii> bspencer: I tweaked the current "big png" to make it black, guess that would be the best place to start
[09:51] <kwwii> bspencer: I also started to edit the svg source so that it looks black in the way we want it
[09:51] <kwwii> bspencer: but just making the pics black is a long way from making the whole thing correct - we will have to edit the gtkrc to use the right colors as well
[10:13] <agoliveira> Anyone from Pepper around?
[10:25] <Sciri> agoliveira: What's up? Questions for Pepper?
[10:26] <agoliveira> Sciri: I'll be with you shortly.
[10:26] <Sciri> agoliveira: No worries...
[10:27] <agoliveira> Sciri: Are you receiving my private message?
[11:21] <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: no, I still haven't received my menlow system.  I'll phone DHL on monday and ask where it's at and what's happening.
[11:22] <agoliveira> Stardict builds fine on i386 and lpia. Yay!
[11:24] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: with hildon UI?
[11:24] <agoliveira> Yep.
[11:24] <Mithrandir> yay
[11:24] <agoliveira> I just finished
[11:25] <agoliveira> I had to update to version 3.0.0 (the repo has 2.4.8 only)
[11:25] <agoliveira> and disable festival support but it looks fine.
[11:27] <agoliveira> A warning, you will probably puke over the debian files but that's what I could do for now so be kind, I promisse to polish it later :)


[12:28] <andrupal> I'm setting up LTSP for the first time and I'm having login problems on the thin client.   The server auth logs suggest the session was begun, but the client screen just goes black, then shows an X, then returns to the login screen.  I've tried updating the SSH keys...does anyone know how to handle this?
[12:29] <cliebow> andrupal..not sure..b ut i think ogra would direct you tyo .xseession-errors..
[12:29] <andrupal> Can you translate that into newbiespeak?
[12:30] <cliebow> err..i think in the homedir of the perdson logging in there maay be a file by that name
[12:30] <cliebow> that any better?
[12:31] <andrupal> It seems the user directory is empty...is this normal?
[12:32] <cliebow> even with ls -al?
[12:32] <andrupal> ah
[12:32] <cliebow> check perms too
[12:33] <andrupal> I see "no session managers, no window managers, etc...aborting"
[12:34] <cliebow> is this a server install?
[12:34] <cliebow> you DO need a gui desktop
[12:35] <andrupal> yes, server install.
[12:35] <andrupal> forcing myself to learn command line...painful
[12:35] <cliebow> woud you like to use edubuntu ubuntu kubuntu desktop..icewm?
[12:35] <cliebow> any preference?
[12:35] <andrupal> No preference
[12:36] <cliebow> this being edubuntu..why not sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop.
[12:36] <andrupal> I'm actually using ubuntu with ltsp installed
[12:37] <andrupal> this won't matter will it?
[12:37] <cliebow> no..i have deubuntu ubuntu and xubuntu on one machine.i use interchangeably
[12:38] <andrupal> so you've pointed me to a GUI for the server...that's helpful!
[12:39] <cliebow> you will havt to check with ofgra to see if there are any server-side permutations to make
[12:39] <cliebow> when starting from a server install
[12:39] <cliebow> for localdevices and sound to work
[12:39] <andrupal> So the reason xsessions weren't working was because I had no GUI installed on the server?
[12:40] <cliebow> i aim to please \0_
[12:40] <andrupal> Who is ofgra?
[12:40] <cliebow> but im not always correct..someone usually corrects me
[12:40] <cliebow> ogra put together aa lot of edubuntu
[12:41] <andrupal> OK
[12:41] <cliebow> with a little help from his friends
[12:41] <cliebow> 8~)
[12:41] <andrupal> Thanks for tolerating my ignorance...I'm two days into this world!
[12:42] <andrupal> So I probably should have started with an edubuntu distro if I want to do LTSP in a snap?
[12:42] <cliebow> welcome..i was there once meself
[12:42] <cliebow> probably..but think what you will learn..
[12:43] <cliebow> you'll have to be sure you have all services
[12:43] <andrupal> Yes...aiming to set up a whole school on ltsp...so I need to know all the inner workings of it eventually...
[12:43] <cliebow> dhcp..tftp...nfs-kernel-server...portmap
[12:43] <cliebow> andrupal, look me up if you like..that is what i do..
[12:44] <cliebow> and some of the things i say are true
[12:44] <andrupal> How do I look you up?
[12:45] <cliebow> here
[12:45] <cliebow> or #ltsp
[12:45] <cliebow> or cliebow at ltsp.org
[12:46] <andrupal> OK...you're in Maine?
[12:46] <cliebow> yeah
[12:46] <andrupal> Beauty of a State.
[12:46] <cliebow> im at scholl mon tiues wed
[12:47] <cliebow> and on a bot thurs fri sat.
[12:47] <andrupal> How is LTSP working out for you?
[12:48] <cliebow> been great..Maine education is a mess..so im not progressing much
[12:48] <andrupal> try New York City
[12:49] <cliebow> yeah ill bet..
[12:49] <andrupal> I'm with a new school startup...trying to get them on board before they go down the Windows road
[12:49] <cliebow> if you are using "challenged client machines 4.2 is nice
[12:49] <cliebow> but ltsp5 is coming on quick
[12:50] <andrupal> Got to run...be back later.  Wish the wife were more tolerant of this hobby of mine...;)
[12:50] <cliebow> heh,,..\
[12:50] <cliebow> best'
[12:50] <andrupal> cheers
[02:58] <sbalneav> Evening all
[03:04] <LaserJock> hi sbalneav
[03:04] <sbalneav> Hey LaserJock
[03:04] <sbalneav> So, I've completed about 1/2 the rewrite of ldm in C from python
[03:04] <LaserJock> How's it going up north, eh?
[03:04] <sbalneav> I'm logged in on it now.
[03:05] <LaserJock> awesome
[03:05] <sbalneav> Old ldm time on slow box: 40 seconds.
[03:05] <sbalneav> new ldm time: instantaneous.
[03:05] <LaserJock> really?
[03:05] <sbalneav> as soon as X starts up you get the login.
[03:05] <sbalneav> yep.
[03:05] <LaserJock> wow
[03:05] <sbalneav> lots more work to do.  But it WORKS
[03:06] <sbalneav> Plus, it scripts the password session.
[03:06] <sbalneav> so, we'll be able to give error messages
[03:06] <sbalneav> handle expired passwords,
[03:06] <sbalneav> etc.
[03:06] <LaserJock> yeah, sweet
[03:06] <LaserJock> I'll be interesting to see the difference in lines of code
[03:07] <LaserJock> I've heard, in general, python code is 5-10 times fewer lines of code
[03:09] <sbalneav> sbalneav@edubuntu:~/ldm-0.1/src$ wc *.c *.h
[03:09] <sbalneav>    60   138  1105 greeter_iface.c
[03:09] <sbalneav>   308   722  6768 ldm.c
[03:09] <sbalneav>   228   584  4983 sshutils.c
[03:09] <sbalneav>    43   101   896 ldm.h
[03:09] <sbalneav>   639  1545 13752 total
[03:09] <sbalneav> sbalneav@edubuntu:~/ldm-0.1/src$
[03:09] <sbalneav> I think the old ldm's about 150 lines.
[03:09] <sbalneav> By the time I'm done, I'll be up around 1500 lines, methinks.
[03:09] <LaserJock> yeah, so about 10 times
[03:10] <LaserJock> interesting
[03:11] <sbalneav> In Python, if you want to have a list, you just go l = ['foo', 'bar', 'baz']
[03:12] <sbalneav> In C, youd have to alloc some mem, set up the pointers to the string, etc.
[03:12] <sbalneav> If you want to ADD to the list in python, l.append('Foople')
[03:12] <sbalneav> In C, that's a world of hurt
[03:12] <sbalneav> realloc the space
[03:13] <sbalneav> copy the stuff over,
[03:13] <sbalneav> add the new one,
[03:13] <sbalneav> etc.
[03:18] <LaserJock> sbalneav: yeah, I've been working on some C++
[03:18] <LaserJock> and the memory/pointer stuff is killing me
[03:19] <LaserJock> but it's pretty darn fast
[03:20] <cliebow>  beam scottie up!
[04:25] <crimsun> ehh, C++?
[04:26] <LaserJock> yeah?
[04:26] <crimsun> if you're using C++, just #include <list>
[04:27] <crimsun> or do you mean any general structure containing strings?
[04:27] <LaserJock> I mean, there's a lot more for me to think about in C++
[04:27] <crimsun> yes, there's much more building of infrastructure, but it's more tolerable than C
[04:27] <LaserJock> but that could be just because I don't really get programming
[04:27] <crimsun> [in terms of rapidly getting something off the ground]
[04:28] <LaserJock> python lets me just do things
[04:28] <crimsun> yes, that's why most people enjoy Python
[04:29] <LaserJock> I keep reading C++ books, but it's still really difficult for me to read through real code
[04:31] <crimsun> might be a shade easier if you understand some of the biggest differences between Python and C++
[04:31] <crimsun> Python is much less procedural than C++
[04:31] <LaserJock> I was considering taking a class or something at the uni
[04:32] <LaserJock> but I'm not sure if that'd help if it's just the same stuff as in the books
[04:32] <crimsun> depends how you're working through the books.
[04:32] <LaserJock> probably
[04:33] <LaserJock> I just read the thing and it makes sense
[04:33] <crimsun> a typical C++ curriculum will pace you through syntax, data structures & algorithms, and so on
[04:33] <LaserJock> but then if I read real application code it doesn't make a ton of sense
[04:33] <crimsun> ah, I see.
[04:34] <crimsun> I recommend you start with a diagramming course at the uni, then.
[04:34] <crimsun> doesn't have to be programming-based, although that helps
[04:34] <crimsun> some art departments have really good ones
[04:34] <LaserJock> hmm, interesting
[04:35] <crimsun> essentially, look at using visuals to create structure
[04:35] <crimsun> then look at structures to create methods
[04:35] <crimsun> methods have workflows
[04:35] <crimsun> workflows have patterns
[04:36] <crimsun> I don't know how strongly a visual person you are, but for some people it helps to see flowcharts, the programmatic extension being UML diagrams, etc.
[04:37] <crimsun> a great many F/LOSS projects don't do this sort of documentation, unfortunately, but it's one of the first things we learned under Fred Brooks
[04:39] <LaserJock> interesting
[04:41] <LaserJock> I've not done UML diagrams before
[04:42] <LaserJock> but I can see where that might help me out
[07:04] <Meshezabeel> heya jbrefort
[07:05] <jbrefort> hi Meshezabeel
[07:45] <ltsp_homeserver> Hi, does anyne know if gigabit network for LTSP clients improves video framerate or are they still like slide shows ;)
[07:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> i doubt it will improve anything
[07:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> local video would hvae more impact
[08:17] <ltsp_homeserver> Do you know any howto's about installing local video support?
[08:19] <Kamping_Kaiser> no
[08:53] <RichEd> hi Kamping_Kaiser
[08:53] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi RichEd
[08:54] <RichEd> wet & rainy winter day in Cape Town ...
[08:54] <RichEd> minor flooding ...
[08:54] <RichEd> national public servant strike ...
[08:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> is public service striking a good or bad thing?
[08:58] <Burgundavia> Kamping_Kaiser: depends on teh public service
[08:58] <juliux> morning
[09:00] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi juliux
[09:02] <RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: hospitals, schools, police = some nurses on strike preventing other nurses from working, schools interrupting exams ... tear gas, rubber bullets ... fun for all ...
[09:03] <RichEd> hi Burgundavia & juliux
[09:03] <juliux> hey RichEd
[09:04] <juliux> RichEd, did you still know the project linux4afrika?
[09:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, wow, they do it properly in your country.
[09:06] <RichEd> juliux: yep ... the main guy spoke to me via email a while ago, then I put him on to willvdl, and then oliver told me last week there was a program on german TV with them recommending ubuntu ?
[09:06] <juliux> RichEd, right
[09:07] <juliux> RichEd, and the german tv want to make an extra broadcast with them
[09:07] <juliux> RichEd, they want to show how they prepare there work in afrika in germany and then they want to show how it works in afrika
[09:08] <RichEd> juliux: great ... what is the general "message" goodwill for assisting developement in Africa ?
[09:08] <juliux> RichEd, they not only send hardware to afrika, they also explain the people how to work with them
[09:10] <RichEd> willvdl: hey there ... see /msg for pasteback on the last few lines re linux4afrika
[09:10] <RichEd> juliux: I wonder if they would consider including an insert / quote from Mark S ?
[09:11] <juliux> RichEd, why not
[09:11] <juliux> RichEd, the guy from the tv broadcaster is very friendly and helpful
[09:11] <juliux> RichEd, he is also an ubuntu user and he visit us the last two years on most expos in germany
[09:11] <RichEd> juliux: if you can get some contact details to me, perhaps we can sort out some contact with our PRO people ...
[09:12] <willvdl> RichEd, hey. I'm also very curious to see what level of training they do
[09:12] <RichEd> Mark is "newsworthy" and can add the spin that this sort of situation of need is exactly why he put together a free operating system for human beings
[09:13] <juliux> RichEd, did you see the tv broadcast allready?
[09:13] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: so are we going to get everyone here on facebook? heh
[09:14] <RichEd> juliux: no ... but ogra mentioned it in #canonical last week
[09:14] <willvdl> jsgotangco, ew
[09:14] <jsgotangco> hahaha
[09:14] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: heh, seems like people are doing a good job of adding themselves :)
[09:14] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: but we could certaibly accelerate it
[09:14] <RichEd> jsgotangco: I have yet to understand the point of facebook ... or myspace ...
[09:15] <jsgotangco> social networks are an acquired taste but facebook has nifty apps
[09:15] <willvdl> last.fm is the bomb
[09:15] <jsgotangco> RichEd: why not ask JaneW? *grin*
[09:16] <RichEd> and by insecure, I do not mean security
[09:16] <willvdl> but with such lovely backgrounds
[09:16] <willvdl> and shiny buttons
[09:16] <willvdl> RichEd, http://last.fm
[09:16] <willvdl> it changed my life more than Compiz
[09:16] <jsgotangco> haha
[09:17] <RichEd> "G-Jane: yep,  face book is the new crazy,  where you been dude?"
[09:17] <RichEd> merriam: living in the real world thanks
[09:17] <jsgotangco> yep she's right, have you seen her facebook profile?
[09:17] <RichEd> s/me/merriam
[09:18] <RichEd> ( sorry about the autocomplete )
[09:18] <RichEd> jsgotangco: nope
[09:19] <jsgotangco> i guess you haven't touched twitter or jaiku then?
[09:20] <jsgotangco> willvdl: there's a last.fm app in facebook lol
[09:21] <willvdl> urk
[09:21] <jsgotangco> it has 68,000+ users haha
[09:21] <jsgotangco> "Last.fm Music turns your Facebook 'favorite music' into a radio station."
[09:22] <willvdl> ew
[09:24] <willvdl> last.fm is brilliant though. it's social networking with an actual purpose
[09:24] <willvdl> they just need a better interface
[09:41] <crimsun> I prefer pandora, but YMMV
[09:42] <jsgotangco> sucks for us outside the USA
[09:42] <willvdl> haha
[04:06] <rockprincess> hello all!
[04:11] <SimonAnibal> howdy, rockprincess, how are you today?
[04:11] <rockprincess> howdy Simon! I'm excellent indeed, how about yourself?
[04:15] <rockprincess> i've got some good and some bad news...
[04:22] <SimonAnibal> rockprincess, I'm doing well, what's your news?
[04:26] <administrateur> Hi, I have some problems when printing from openoffice with duplex printer
[04:27] <rockprincess> SimonAnibal: good news are that today kicked off my last week at school, so it's time to get some feedback, pupils filled out my feedback sheets and most them thought it was a very good idea installing edubuntu at school. the bad news is that last week i installed edubuntu locally on a few machines at school, (i installed edgy) and then upgraded to feisty....but obviously there was a machine who failed to get all updates, so
[04:27] <rockprincess> i fetched them again today,...seemed to work quite well, and then when i restarted the gdm bootsplash was all cryptic with squares instead of letters....weird?!
[04:33] <rockprincess> SimonAnibal: I tried a few things, such as installing the german language-pack-de and installing localeconf and reconfiguring it...
[05:55] <mcksean> anybody out there?
[05:57] <mcksean> are there significant stability or performance benefits to upgrading to 7.04 (I'm currently running the LTS version)?
[06:05] <RichEd> hi mcksean : 7.04 is quite an advancement from LTS
[06:06] <RichEd> There are some new applications, and LTSP is vastly improved in speed & functionality.
[06:23] <mcksean> Hi RichEd -- sounds good --
[06:24] <mcksean> RichEd -- have upgrades been successful for people? Or should I not bother and just do a clean install?
[07:12] <mcksean> to anyone...have you found upgrades to be successful or would you recommend a backup of user dirs and just doing a clean install?
[07:35] <willvdl> highvoltage, howdy
[07:40] <wuzzy79> i installed the live boot onto a memory key, but i am having a hard time setting it boot only to run level 3, any ideas how i can get this done?
[07:44] <willvdl> okie. outa here. see you tomorrow


[01:57] <cloud> hey
[01:57] <cloud> i need help with something
[01:57] <cloud> i dl patch for pidgin
[01:57] <cloud> and i tryed to use it
[01:58] <cloud> so the accounts.xml wont save plain text
[01:58] <cloud> but i always fail
[02:04] <holstein> cloud: what are you trying to do?
[02:04] <cloud> ok
[02:05] <cloud> i try to install a pacth
[02:05] <cloud> that is called master key
[02:05] <cloud> so i can protect pidgin passwords
[02:06] <holstein> passwords? from what?
[02:07] <cloud> i ll post a link so u'll see what i want
[02:08] <cloud> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/fix-for-master-password-expose-for-pidgin.html
[02:08] <cloud> i wanted to do this
[02:08] <cloud> :)
[02:10] <holstein> cloud: i'll read when i get time, otherwise, let me know what you'd like to accomplish
[02:11] <cloud> to install a patch that would give me option inpidgin named security
[02:11] <cloud> where i can setup master password
[02:11] <cloud> so nobody could read account.xml
[02:11] <cloud> i did like its said in tutorial on link
[02:12] <cloud> but i just cant overcome the problem
[02:14] <krytarik> cloud, if you are using a Gnome/Unity session, you could just use this plugin: https://launchpad.net/~pidgin-gnome-keyring/+archive/ppa
[02:15] <cloud> i think i put that in repository...
[02:15] <cloud> so should i just upgrade?
[02:16] <holstein> cloud: i would confirm that you have added that PPA or not
[02:16] <cloud> i added t
[02:17] <holstein> my /home is encrypted anyways... but if someone has physical access to your machine, id say all bets are off
[02:17] <cloud> well, thx
[02:17] <cloud> just 1 more question
[02:18] <holstein> i would just have good unique passwords and make sure if someone gets your machine, you change them
[02:18] <cloud> ok
[02:18] <holstein> i wouldnt expect someone to compromise your machine, and you just ingnore that fact...
[02:18] <cloud> what should i type in trerminal to see what repositories i added?
[02:18] <cloud> ok...
[02:18] <cloud> i just want to make sure..:D
[02:19] <holstein> cloud: i would look at the "history" or the sources list. or the "source" in synaptic or where ever you feel comfortable
[02:19] <holstein> cloud: sure that your password cant be compromised? i would assume if some one has your machine, that data has been compromised
[02:19] <holstein> cloud: or you want to make sure you added the ppa?.. you can just add it again i suppose
[02:20] <cloud> noone has pfysical access exepi me
[02:20] <holstein> cloud: you are expecting someone to, otherwise, you dont need to bother with this plugin
[02:21] <cloud> ok then....
[02:21] <cloud> thx anyway
[02:23] <holstein> if someone booted my machine with a live CD or from the recovery console, my chat account passwords would be the least of my concerns..
[02:25] <wilee-nilee> holstein, Heh I have all the important stuff in truecrypt, the computer is as empty as my head. ;)
[02:25] <holstein> wilee-nilee: true-crypt is nice!
[02:26] <wilee-nilee> I like it I just have a couple of folders that can be opened in any OS that can run truecrypt, passwords is all.
[02:30] <cloud> ok guys
[02:30] <cloud> thx for help..see ya
[09:10] <jdo_dk> How do i create a secure fileshare between to ubuntu servers ?
[12:25] <duanedesign> 0/
[12:26] <blazemore> ?
[12:39] <duanedesign> hello
[12:43] <Sidewinder1> Good mornin' duanedesign
[12:43] <duanedesign> gooood morning
[12:44] <duanedesign> hope you sre doing well this morning
[12:44] <duanedesign> i am havin my coffee and getting woke up :)
[12:51] <Sidewinder1> duanedesign, Yes, very well, thank you; just finishing my last cup, here.
[12:54] <smartboyhw> lol
[15:21] <raub> How do I set apache to spew debug messages (as in http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1990272)?
[15:22] <raub> sudo apache2ctl -X -k start is doing nothing for me
[15:22] <blazemore> raub: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/core.html#loglevel
[15:23] <raub> Much better. Thanks blazemore!
[22:45] <Wilson2B> Running 12.04 , and somehow the refresh graphics got mucked with.. not sure if it's a video driver or what. the background disappears until I move a window around. even menu items dont show up.. have to move cursor over them a few times to see under neath.
[22:46] <holstein> Wilson2B: what graphics device?
[22:46] <Wilson2B> Intel
[22:46] <Wilson2B> gmu 3150
[22:46] <Wilson2B> its a netbook
[22:47] <holstein> Wilson2B: those typically work out of the box... have you tried any troubleshooting? vesa driver... unity2d?
[22:47] <Wilson2B> Yes, it used to be fine
[22:48] <holstein> Wilson2B: what used to be "fine" ?
[22:48] <Wilson2B> have not tried troubleshooting.. tried
[22:48] <Wilson2B> the graphics
[22:48] <holstein> Wilson2B: i you have upgraded the kernel, just reboot with th older kernel and test
[22:50] <Wilson2B> I tried that
[22:50] <Wilson2B> How would I reinstall newest video drivers?
[22:50] <holstein> Wilson2B: they are just in the kernel.. you tried what? booting an older kernel?
[22:51] <holstein> Wilson2B: boot the very first kernel in the list
[22:51] <Wilson2B> booting previous version of kernel from menu
[22:51] <holstein> Wilson2B: then, i would try the unity2d
[22:52] <holstein> though, it sounds graphics driver related
[22:52] <Wilson2B> How would I reinstall newest video drivers?
[22:52] <holstein> Wilson2B: they are just in the kernel.. they meaning the drivers
[22:52] <holstein> Wilson2B: you dont need to install intel drivers. they are just there
[22:53] <Wilson2B> intel released a newer version
[22:53] <Wilson2B> that is better supported
[22:53] <holstein> Wilson2B: it'll get integrated automatically... otherwise, you can ask intel for it
[22:54] <Wilson2B> ok
[22:54] <holstein> Wilson2B: that would be more trouble that its worth though
[22:55] <holstein> Wilson2B: and if it all used to work, booting an older kernel should take the drivers out of the equation
[22:55] <holstein> anyways.. GTG
[22:58] <Wilson2B> thanks