[03:51] <Derander> Does anyone here understand postfix?
[04:06] <hads> Some
[04:08] <Derander> erp, sorry - missed your response until now
[04:08] <Derander>  I figured it out, hopefully :_)
[04:33] <ScottK2> lamont: Are you around and at least slightly available to talk about Bug #247332?
[05:04] <schone> hey all
[05:04] <schone> i was wanting to build a file server for my home network and was wondering is there much difference between using ubuntu server or desktop client?
[05:04] <ScottK2> Ubuntu Server is only command line.
[05:05] <ScottK2> It has a kernel optimized for server use.  For a home file server, that's unlikely to matter much.
[05:05] <schone> so desktop is pretty much server with a gui
[05:05] <ScottK2> The core of the each is common.
[05:06] <schone> ah ok , I also wanted to setup a mysql/php , ror envioroment for testing and development
[05:06] <ScottK2> You can do that on your desktop no problem.
[05:06] <schone> sweet probably stick with the desktop
[05:06] <ScottK2> For learning how to manage servers though, you'll want to learn the command line stuff though.
[05:06] <ScottK2> It really helps you understand your system better.
[05:06] <schone> ah ok
[05:07] <schone> is there any prepackaged home server software (alternatives to windows home server?)
[05:07] <ScottK2> You can do that on your desktop, just use the CLI stuff too.
[05:07] <schone> cool
[05:08]  * ScottK2 has never seen Windows Home Server, so has no idea what would be alternative to it.
[05:08] <schone> ah ok cool
[05:09] <ScottK2> For server GUI like things, the recommended approach if you want one is ebox.
[05:09] <ScottK2> !ebox | schone
[05:11] <Derander> Does anyone have any experience setting up postfix? I'm trying to get postfix, courier and sasl working, but I keep getting 'SASL LOGIN authentication failure: password verification failed" when I attempt to send a message.
[05:11] <schone> nice! thanks scottk2
[05:12] <ScottK2> Derander: Do you have Postfix working without SASL?
[05:12] <Derander> I think so
[05:12] <ScottK2> i.e. if you put an IP address in mynetworks, can you send mail out?
[05:12] <Derander> if I telnet to port 25 then I can send messages out
[05:12] <ScottK2> OK
[05:13] <ScottK2> Are you trying to set up cyrus-sasl or dovecot?
[05:13] <Derander> erm, I'll figure that out.  one moment please
[05:14] <ScottK2> !server-guide
[05:14] <ScottK2> !serverguide
[05:14] <ScottK2> Urgh.
[05:14] <hads> It's in the topic
[05:14] <ScottK2> Sure enough
[05:14] <Derander> libsasl2-2 libsasl2-modules libsasl2-modules-sql sasl2-bin << the packages that I installed dealing with sasl
[05:14] <ScottK2> That's cyrus.
[05:14] <Derander> I thought so
[05:14] <Derander> (I'm following http://www.howtoforge.org/virtual-users-domains-postfix-courier-mysql-squirrelmail-ubuntu8.04)
[05:14] <ScottK2> oK.
[05:15] <ScottK2> Are you open to another approach?
[05:15] <Derander> sure, why not?
[05:15] <Derander> I just want a mail server ;-)
[05:16] <ScottK2> Use Postfix and Dovecot and follow https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/serverguide/C/email-services.html
[05:16] <Derander> Will do
[05:16] <hads> Dovecot SASL is fairly straight forward. I haven't played with cyrus for ages.
[05:16] <ScottK2> Those are the ones that are the most supported here.
[05:16] <ScottK2> Yes.  Dovecot is supposed to be dead easy.
[05:16]  * ScottK2 still uses cyrus, but has a working configuration to copy from ...
[05:16] <Derander> just dovecot and postfix, or the other things there too?
[05:18] <ScottK2> You need at least 3 bits: Postfix, sasl (Dovecot), and a mail delivery agent (Dovecot instead of courier).
[05:18] <Derander> Cool.
[05:18] <ScottK2> Do you really need squirrelmail nand mysql?
[05:18] <ScottK2> You'll want some spam filtering too.
[05:18] <ScottK2> Look at amavisd-new with spamasssassin and clamav.
[05:19] <Derander> I don't want squirrelmail, mysql doesn't hurt.
[05:19] <Derander> Yeah, somehow I was getting spamassassin/clamav/amavisd-new in there too
[05:19] <ScottK2> https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/serverguide/C/mail-filtering.html covers that.
[05:19] <hads> I'd start with greylisting (postgrey) and spamhaus lookups, you'd be suprised how much that stops and it's dead easy.
[05:19] <ScottK2> For a small domain mysql is way overkill
[05:19] <ScottK2> Agreed.
[05:20] <Derander> Yeah, there will only be 3 users on this domain ;-)
[05:20] <hads> Agree, you then have to factor in mysql being up to receive mail.
[05:20] <ScottK2> Yep.
[05:20] <hads> I'd just use a passwd-like file for dovecot.
[05:21] <hads> You could use system users although I prefer virtual myself.
[05:21] <Derander> I would like to use virtual.
[05:22] <hads> Well I just setup a new hardy VM with postfix/dovecot yesterday to replace my current home server so if you get stuck I should be able to help.
[05:22] <Derander> Okay, I'm stuck!
[05:22] <Derander> What should I put in mynetworks?
[05:23] <ScottK2> Leave it be unless you want to allow people to send mail based on IP address alone.
[05:23] <hads> It should by default have something like <IP_ADDRESS>/8 etc.
[05:23] <Derander> Okay,
[05:23] <hads> Which is fine.
[05:23] <ScottK2> The other stuff is for IPv6 and is harmless.
[05:23] <Derander> Okay :-)
[05:24] <Derander> Oh lord
[05:24] <Derander> All of the configuration files from my previous three attempts are still around
[05:24] <Derander> I attempted deleting them once and borked aptitude
[05:25] <Derander> Ah, figured it out.
[05:26] <Derander> Man, setting up a mail server has been a massive undertaking - I set up apache/ruby/php/mysql/rails in 10 minutes..
[05:26] <Derander> this has bee 12 hours
[05:28] <ScottK2> The first one is really hard.
[05:28] <Derander> I've noticed :-(
[05:28] <ScottK2> I can go from parts in boxes to a running server in 3 or 4 hours including testing.
[05:29] <Derander> Yeah, I'm only a hobbyist sys-admin
[05:29]  * ScottK2 actually had to do that once when a box died during a maintenance outage.
[05:29] <Derander> so this is my first shot doing it myself
[05:29] <Derander> Hah :-)
[05:29]  * ScottK2 is primarliy a consultant, but runs some small services.
[05:29] <Derander> I work as a programmer :-)
[05:30]  * hads is a jack of all
[05:30] <Derander> Hee
[05:31] <Derander> on to SASL
[05:32] <ScottK2> For future reference, don't manually remove config files.
[05:33] <ScottK2> Use the purge option when you remove the package and they'll go away.
[05:33] <ScottK2> Manual removal confuses the packaging system.
[05:33] <Derander> Yeah.
[05:33] <Derander> I figured that out ;-)
[05:33] <ScottK2> OK.
[05:34] <hads> This may help as a sample dovecot.conf; http://paste.pocoo.org/show/79291/
[05:34] <Derander> Will I need that, or is the one that the guide sets me up alright?
[05:34] <hads> You don't need that at all, though it may be useful as a sample to refer to.
[05:35] <hads> I haven't actually read the guide
[05:35] <ScottK2> sommer: You may want to pay attention to this to see how the mail setup stuff in the server guide is working.
[05:35] <Derander> Ah :-)
[05:35]  * hads goes to read the guide
[05:36] <ScottK2> sommer wrote or assembled most of the guide, but is probably sleeping now.
[05:37] <Derander> Cool
[05:38] <Derander> When configuring postfix, I created two certs
[05:38] <Derander> two ssl keys
[05:38] <Derander> er, no I didn't
[05:46] <Derander> It appears to be working
[05:48] <Derander> Or almost, I can't receive messages.
[05:52] <Derander> What format is used for the password file?
[05:53] <Derander> (referencing your paste hads)
[05:58] <hads> Derander: http://wiki.dovecot.org/AuthDatabase/PasswdFile
[06:00] <Derander> If I'm using virtual users, with mail_location = Maildir:/home/vmail/%n/mail, do I need to specify anything other  than user:pass in the passwd file?
[06:01] <Derander> I don't.
[06:14] <Derander> Okay, I'm failing.
[06:15] <Derander> I'm trying to use virtual users
[06:16] <Derander> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/79292/ -- dovecot.conf
[06:22] <hads> You've got pam auth enabled for userdb and passdb
[06:22] <hads> Might want to disable that.
[06:23] <Derander> Yeah, I noticed that and got rid of it a little while ago - I think I might have it now
[06:23] <Derander> my users file was formatted as a password file, I'm making it into a user file
[06:24] <Derander> Bingo
[06:25] <Derander> Bah, dovecot still won't accept messages.
[06:44] <Derander> hads: this is the deal, I'm completely able to send messages, and view my 'sent' folder.
[06:45] <Derander> what I'm NOT able to do is receive messages
[06:45] <Derander> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/79293/ contains all of the information I could think of
[06:46] <Derander> I'm trying to use virtual users.
[06:47] <ScottK2> What do your logs say when a message delivery is attempted?
[06:48] <ScottK2> Derander: ^^^
[06:48] <Derander> one moment
[06:49] <Derander> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/79294/
[06:49] <ScottK2> First rule of mail server troubleshooting is always look in the logs.
[06:49] <Derander> Right
[06:50] <ScottK2> Derander: You want andymo.org mail delivered to this box, right?
[06:50] <Derander> yes
[06:51] <ScottK2> Then that domain needs to be in mydestination in /etc/postfix/main.cf.
[06:51] <ScottK2> Otherwise postfix doesn't know it's to be delivered locally and thinks it's a relay attempt.
[06:51] <Derander> ah.
[06:52] <Derander> well, this time it didn't reject it.
[06:52] <Derander> It does keep redirecting ot to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:52] <Derander> when I send to andy
[06:52] <Derander> but I think I know why
[06:53] <Derander> yes, now it is going through
[06:54] <Derander> but I get<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table<EMAIL_ADDRESS><EMAIL_ADDRESS>proto=ESMTP helo=<wf-out-1314.google.com>
[06:54] <ScottK2> Is the domain set up as a virtual domain?
[06:55] <Derander> Nothing is setup beyond what is in the big paste.
[06:55] <Derander> I'm sorry I'm such a bother
[06:56]  * ScottK2 suggests some reading from http://www.google.com/search?q=virtual&sitesearch=www.postfix.org
[06:56]  * ScottK2 needs to get to bed.
[06:56] <Derander> Have a nice sleep :-)
[06:57] <Derander> Looks useful
[10:00] <ctx144k_> hello all, anyone have experiences with kolab2.1/2.2, ldap and ubuntu8.04
[10:00] <ctx144k_> ?
[10:40] <kgoetz> hi all. if i want software raid (mirroring) do i use the lvm option in the installer?
[10:41] <kgoetz> the 'net doesnt seem to be helping me muh yet
[10:46] <_ruben> kgoetz: lvm doesnt give you raid, you need the raid option for that, sw raid often is combined with lvm though (lvm on top of raid)
[10:47] <kgoetz> hm. found a guide on help.ubuntu.com. i'll ry that out
[10:47] <kgoetz> _ruben: i didnt think lvm was used for raid, but i dont see a 'raid' option in the installer
[10:47] <_ruben> kgoetz: it'll show up when you mark a partition as "use for raid"
[10:48] <kgoetz> _ruben: aah. thanks.
[11:08] <erichammond> Depends what kind of RAID you want.  You can use LVM to stripe across two physical disks which is similar to RAID 0.
[11:09] <erichammond> To be clear, that's not mirroring.
[11:09] <hads> mirroring is what kgoetz was after
[11:09] <erichammond> hads: Yes, just being pedantic.
[11:11]  * kgoetz waits for raid to format (i'm expecting the build+format will take some time)
[11:17] <kgoetz> hm. it hasnt taken long
[12:25] <_ruben> kgoetz: building of the raid happens in the background .. you can use it as soon as its recreated, even though it could take hours and hours for it to finish building :)
[12:25] <_ruben> kgoetz: check /proc/mdstat for its status
[12:25] <_ruben> or mdstats
[12:26] <kgoetz> _ruben: looks like it'll take a whil to build - i might sleep on it ;)
[12:30] <_ruben> ;)
[15:56] <Wassasin> Hiya
[16:00] <Wassasin> Can anyone help me with the configuration of my pure-ftp server daemon? I can't force it to accept more then 3 connections as the same user
[16:25] <mrmonday> I've just compiled mysql 5.1.26 from source, to replace my 5.1.25 install, and I can't get mysql to start again - I get "Manager of pid-file quit without updating file." when I try to, any ideas?
[16:28] <ScottK> mrmonday: My idea would be don't compile from source on a Debian/Ubuntu system.  Use the package management system.
[16:28] <mrmonday> why does everyone say this instead of helping me with the problem :S
[16:29] <mrmonday> it worked before when it was compiled form source about a week ago, it's only a new version
[16:30] <ScottK> Why do you think that's not help.  It's  a serious suggestion.
[16:31] <mrmonday> thanks for your suggestion, but I'd rather fix my problem
[16:31] <ScottK> Even when I want to update a package, I update the debian package and build that.  I never install direct from source.
[16:31] <mrmonday> you aren't me though :S
[16:31] <ScottK> Yes, good luck.
[16:32] <ScottK> I will note that I'm not here asking for help getting something to work.  All my stuff is working.  That may or may not be a relevant fact to you.
[16:32] <mrmonday> it isn't, I just want to get my server back online
[16:37] <ScottK> Debian does have an experimental 5.1.25 package.
[16:38] <ScottK> http://packages.qa.debian.org/m/mysql-dfsg-5.1.html
[16:38] <ScottK> Since building from source isn't working for you, you might try building .debs from that and using them.
[16:38] <mrmonday> I had 5.1.25 runing before (compiled from source), which I had no problems with
[16:39] <ScottK> Then you'll probably have more luck on a mysql oriented forum than a Debian/Ubuntu one.
[16:39] <mrmonday> I've just compiled 5.1.26 using the same method, and it doesn't seem to work now
[16:39] <mrmonday> ScottK: they just bash me for using ubuntu when I ask in #mysql
[16:40] <ScottK> You're using Ubuntu, but you don't want to manage packages the Ubuntu way, so I don't know how to help you.
[16:44] <ScottK> Good luck.
[16:44]  * ScottK heads out.
[19:20] <dthacker> I'd like to make my ubuntu squid server do transparent proxy.  I currently have cable modem--->router/fw--->switch----->PC's and servers.   Do I need to move the squid server between the cable modem and the router/fw to force all the traffic through it?
[19:34] <ScottK-laptop> lamont: Ping.
[19:34] <lamont> echo-reply
[19:35] <lamont> I glanced at the script, will look at it more later today, btw
[19:35] <ScottK-laptop> lamont: Great.
[19:35] <ScottK-laptop> If that's generally suitable, it's be easy to replicate into one to do the same for policy servers.
[19:36] <ScottK-laptop> lamont: After the last big round of "Debian/Ubuntu are insane to chroot by default", it was suggested that providing a 'unchroot' script would be a useful compromise.  Thoughts on that?
[19:37] <lamont> sure
[19:37] <lamont> that'd let me close my outstanding debian serious-bug
[19:38] <ScottK-laptop> OK.  If you like the add-filter script, that's about half the work towards chroot/unchroot scripts.
[20:03] <lamont> cool
[20:25] <osmosis> how difficult is it to setup a SMTP server ?
[20:27] <ScottK-laptop> Depends on how much you know about SMTP, your exact requirements, and if you're willing to spend money on a book.
[20:27] <ScottK-laptop> osmosis: ^^
[20:38] <osmosis> ScottK-laptop: sounds like you are saying it is a lot of work.
[20:39] <osmosis> ScottK-laptop: i can't just apt-get install postfix and be done.
[20:39] <ScottK-laptop> No, I'm saying it depends.
[20:39] <ScottK-laptop> Possibly.
[20:39] <ScottK-laptop> The postfix I run on my laptop was installed that way.
[20:39] <ScottK-laptop> The postfix I run on my prodcution mail servers needes some significant configuration and other bits added in.
[20:43] <osmosis> brb
[20:44]  * ScottK-laptop back later.
[20:47] <osmosis> back
[20:47] <osmosis> Are you talking about just the basic postfix configuration, or is there more...like dns settings that need to be done, reverse dns.
[21:23]  * delcoyote hi
[21:47] <nealmcb>  osmosis: your requirements are the main issue, I'd say.  If you want good anti-spam defenses, in my experience it is a pretty significant ongoing hassle, but recently things have gotten better.  If you just want to be able to send occasional emails from a personal domain, and really use another address and server for most mail, it can be pretty easy
[21:49] <osmosis> nealmcb: i just want to be able to send some mail from a php script, and have full control over the headers...which requires using a local server and not a remote smtp server.
[21:53] <jpds> ErikWestrup: Please fix your connection.
[21:53] <ErikWestrup> jpds: Everything is fixed now.
[21:53] <jpds> ErikWestrup: Cheers! :)
[21:54]  * Derander crosses his fingers, c'mon.. work mailserver, work!
[21:54] <ErikWestrup> jpds: I was configuring the proxy in irssi, i'm sorry for the disturbing *quit-messages*
[21:55] <Derander> OMG IT WORKS!
[21:55] <Derander> Oh wait..
[21:55] <Derander> nevermind
[22:35] <__stress___> I  accidentally deleted some of my /home/"user" config files and now when I type "sudo any_command" and "tab" the command so that it can be auto-completed it does not complete....otherwise when I just type the comand and tab it, it auto-copletes...what can I do?
[22:38] <Derander> Mine has never done that, so I have no idea :-)
[22:43] <mralphabet> __stress___: sounds like you lost your .bashrc file
[22:43] <mralphabet> create another user, copy theirs
[22:44] <__stress___> I copied .bashrc and .profile from the root changed the permissions and the like...and it's the same way :D
[22:45] <Derander> OMG! I've done it!
[22:45] <Derander> MAIL WORKS!
[22:45]  * Derander dances
[22:45] <Derander> ScottK: If you're still around, thanks for all of your help! Got it working!
[22:46] <Derander> Hads: Thank you too!
[22:47] <hads> Derander: Well done. I just got up :)
[22:47] <Derander> :-)
[22:47] <Derander> Now to turn on spamassassin and all that jazz :_)
[22:48] <Derander> back shortly, putting users online


[13:57] <mhall119> fishbowl link: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/1e6bd7ba84c1db299f1c272888a0b862b08cec8f?authuser=1&hl=en
[13:58] <mhall119> popey: dpm: ^^
[13:58] <popey> thanks
[13:58] <popey> be there in a mo
[13:59] <dpm> yep, coming!
[14:03] <rickspencer3> I can hear you guys :)
[14:03] <wellsb> It's playing
[14:04] <timp> mhall119: video is playing for me
[14:04] <timp> hello zoltan
[14:05] <rickspencer3> I was enjoying the banter!
[14:05] <popey> ☻
[14:05] <popey> I am being watched by my mother in law's owls
[14:06] <timp> popey: real owls like this http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/01495/Owl-ucinating_532_1495434a.jpg or does "owls" mean something else?
[14:07] <popey> timp: no, lots of pictures and models of owls
[14:07] <popey> like _loads_ of them
[14:08] <popey> Any questions at all?
[14:08] <popey> Anything we need to discuss?
[14:09] <alex-abreu> mhall119, bzoltan arg!
[14:10] <mhall119> alex-abreu: is that a yes arg or a no arg?
[14:11] <mhall119> balloons: ping
[14:11] <alex-abreu> mhall119, if it is convenient for you then go for it, ... :)
[14:14] <kunal_> dpm: here is screen shot http://design.canonical.com/wp-content/uploads/02_month2-copy.jpg
[14:14] <dpm> thanks kunal_!
[14:14] <dpm> bzoltan, http://design.canonical.com/wp-content/uploads/02_month2-copy.jpg
[14:16] <timp> I wonder whether the BubbleShape component in the Ambience theme could be useful for that.
[14:16] <timp> it is meant to be used by the Popover
[14:17] <timp> for a custom "hack" in the calendar app, the calendar developers can have a look at BubbleShape.qml
[14:17] <mhall119> kunal_: ^^
[14:18] <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ux/+bugs?orderby=status&start=0
[14:18] <kunal_> any link for BubbleShape.qml ?
[14:18] <dpm> timp, ^
[14:20] <mhall119> alex-abreu: ok, we're moving the HTML5 session then, sorry about that
[14:20] <alex-abreu> mhall119, next hour?
[14:20] <mhall119> yes
[14:21] <timp> kunal_: here you can see how it is used: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/trunk/view/head:/modules/Ubuntu/Components/Themes/Ambiance/PopoverForegroundStyle.qml
[14:21] <timp> kunal_: and here is the source http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/trunk/view/head:/modules/Ubuntu/Components/Themes/Ambiance/BubbleShape.qml
[14:21] <kunal_> timp, thanks
[14:21] <timp> kunal_: it was meant for Popover, and has some stuff (like the arrow/pointer) that you don't need. But maybe there's some useful code in there
[14:22] <timp> kunal_: bubbleshape is "only" part of the theme, and not part of the UITK public API, so don't rely on it being always there
[14:23] <bzoltan> I have read this : http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-appdev-1308-app-developer-mode
[14:23] <bzoltan> mhall119 ^
[14:23] <kunal_> ok, will check out the code, how i can use it
[14:26] <timp> QUESTION: do you think that everything (all packages) needed to build your software (including cpp) on the device in the default images? It is a developer preview after all
[14:26] <timp> now I have to install all the packages after an upgrade
[14:27] <timp> ^+"should be included" (in the the default images)
[14:28] <popey> https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-32225
[14:28] <popey> dpm: ^
[14:28] <dpm> thanks popey ;)
[14:30] <timp> mhall119: ok, thanks
[14:31] <popey> np
[14:31] <CheeseBurg> Has there been a discussion on desktop app development with the SDK? Same the desktop app design guides?
[14:31] <timp> bzoltan: compiling on the device is not too bad for me. Devices are fast nowadays :)
[14:32] <bzoltan> timp: the issue is not the performance. The showstopper is the RO image what does not like apt-get installing the build deps
[14:33] <aquarius> QUESTION which I think has likely been asked already, but I'm not sure. If I write an app for the App Showdown, should I look at distributing it *as* a click package? This question has two components: will the click package stuff be available in time, and can people on a desktop install a click package?
[14:34] <cjwatson> I don't expect converged click packages to be working by 13.10
[14:34] <timp> CheeseBurg: it is possible already to develop desktop apps with the SDK, although the user interface components are more optimized for touch
[14:34] <aquarius> cjwatson, that's what I thought...
[14:34] <cjwatson> You can do it but it requires some hacking
[14:34] <aquarius> which leads to another QUESTION, which is: how should App Showdown apps *be* given to people? debs? bzr branches? :)
[14:35] <CheeseBurg> timp: I know but I was wondering more about the desktop specific focus. I just wanted a timeline.
[14:35] <cjwatson> (to clarify: there aren't *that* many blockers, but there's only one of me ...)
[14:35] <popey> aquarius: deb for desktop, click for touch?
[14:35] <popey> (qtcreator can create both)
[14:35] <aquarius> popey, I am worried about making a click package when I don't *have* a Touch implementation to test it on, you see
[14:35] <popey> aquarius: i hereby volunteer to test your app
[14:36] <popey> or come to my house and test it here
[14:36] <popey> you pay mileage
[14:36] <aquarius> well, once I win the competition I'll have a nexus 4, of course. ;-)
[14:36] <popey> get you
[14:36] <aquarius> (not all that likely tbh :))
[14:36] <popey> of course not, I'm going to win with my as-yet unwritten app
[14:37] <aquarius> mhall119, my app's pure QML. No C++ for me. Ever. :)
[14:37] <bzoltan>  aquarius:  that is the way to go
[14:37] <wellsb> At what point should we ask for this extra help developing click packages for compiled packages?
[14:38] <aquarius> ooh, mhall119 says that the command line click tools will work on the desktop. cjwatson, if that's not the case you might wanna mention it ;)
[14:38] <cjwatson> wellsb: the next two sessions will be relevant
[14:38] <cjwatson> aquarius: that is correct
[14:38] <aquarius> cjwatson, oh! cool. So I can just distribute as a click package and say "to install on desktop Ubuntu, do: apt-get install clickthings; click install app.click"?
[14:39] <wellsb> Excellent
[14:39] <popey> aquarius: send me a usb stick wrapped in a £50 note and I'll test the app for you
[14:39] <cjwatson> aquarius: Well, no.  "click build" is fine; but blockers for installing include (a) living in a different packagekit vs. aptdaemon world (b) the application lifecycle stuff almost certainly isn't in place to start the app properly
[14:40] <cjwatson> aquarius: You can certainly hack things up to install it, but I suspect it will not quite run properly
[14:40] <cjwatson> aquarius: It'll be *nearly* there, and it's worth somebody having a go, sure
[14:40] <dpm> wellsb, you can find us on #ubuntu-app-devel and ask there once you're app is ready to be packaged
[14:41] <aquarius> that sounds rather like if I want to enter a showdown app I need to distribute it twice? Once as click for phones, and once some other way so desktop people can use it? (I'm fine with this being the case, I just want to know if it's the case :))
[14:41] <cjwatson> wellsb: (by which I mean http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21954/community-1308-qml-extensions/ and http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21908/foundations-1308-arch-specific-click-pkgs/)
[14:41] <aquarius> I am trying to avoid debs because I don't properly understand them :)
[14:41] <cjwatson> I think for 13.10 you should assume that that is the case; if we can do better, bonus
[14:41] <cjwatson> But I suspect convergence will not be quite there enough to do much better for 13.10
[14:42] <aquarius> ok, cool. dpm, mhall119, it might be a good idea to write a blog post or something about how to distribute your app showdown app so that desktop people can play it?
[14:42] <CheeseBurg> Will there be an app showdown in the future (far or near) where developers can submit closed source stuff for a price. I know this showdown is for testing new app uploading features but what about future ones.
[14:42] <aquarius> (as well as "submit a click package to the app store", of course.)
[14:44] <aquarius> click packages should support you bundling a binary, surely? (It's just the same as bundling a library.)
[14:44] <justforkicks> David the next time you get a good idea can you get a person to turn on that light above your head j/k ?  it would be funny
[14:45] <cjwatson> aquarius: Yes, modulo layout of fat packages
[14:45] <cjwatson> aquarius: But worst case a script at the top level that detects architecture and dispatches to the right one
[14:45] <aquarius> cjwatson, yeah, I'm handwaving architecture stuff, but yeah
[14:45] <dpm> justforkicks, lol, absolutely! :)
[14:46] <CheeseBurg> Will the minimum price for apps be decreased in the store, just curious? Also there should be session at the next UDS for app store stuff specifically.
[14:46] <aquarius> potential apparmor problem: apparmor is working on the name of the executable, right? So if my apparmor profile is for "qmlscene /opt/click/mypkg/whatever.qml" and that QML file execs /opt/click/mypkg/somebinary, will somebinary be restricted by apparmor?
[14:47] <jdstrand> aquarius: apparmor can work in that manner, but that is not how we are performing attachment
[14:47] <aquarius> also I am not sure how the whole "suspend this app" stuff works if you exec another binary.
[14:47] <aquarius> jdstrand, oh, cool, I didn't realise you were here ;) Clearly you already understand this stuff :)
[14:47] <jdstrand> aquarius: we are creating a named profile, and then changing profile using either upstart apparmor integratin or aa-exec
[14:48] <jdstrand> aquarius: it is a technique similar to what we've don't with libvirt and qemu for years
[14:48] <jdstrand> aquarius: fork, change profile, exec (essentially)
[14:48] <jdstrand> aquarius: I am ubiquitous :)
[14:48] <aquarius> jdstrand, so if an apparmored executable execs another binary, that other binary is still confined by the same profile? (i.e., it is confined, and it has the same allowances as the parent rather than having no profile and thus being completely confined with no permissions)?
[14:49] <CheeseBurg> What about subscription purchases?
[14:49] <CheeseBurg> Like magazines on Android
[14:50] <jdstrand> aquarius: apps are generally not allowed to execute other applications. they are allowed to exec code in there install directory and XDG_DATA_HOME/<app dir>. we use 'ix' permissions in apparmor which means the child will inherit th epermissions set of the parent
[14:50] <jdstrand> s/in there/in their/
[14:51] <aquarius> jdstrand, ah, that's cool. This question is in the context of a click package shipping a QML app which execs another binary that's shipped inside the click pacakge, not about a package execing something random from elsewhere, so what you're describing is perfect.
[14:51] <jdstrand> eg, so an app can ship a helper and execute it with the same permissions as the parent
[14:51] <aquarius> perfect, that's precisely what popey was asking about :)
[14:51] <jdstrand> right, yes, that is allowed
[14:51] <jdstrand> hey, I thought popey asked me that the other day and I answered :P
[14:51] <popey> ☻
[14:52] <popey> so my qml app can call my c++ wrapper to call cowsay?
[14:52] <aquarius> I'd still like to hear what happens in the app suspender for chlid processes; does it suspend a whole process group?
[14:52] <jdstrand> popey: your question was certainly for the benefit of the group :)
[14:52] <CheeseBurg> You guys need App Store discussions badly lol.
[14:52] <popey> and I ship 3 binary versions of cowsay for x86, x86_64 and armhf
[14:52] <popey> ?
[14:52] <jdstrand> aquarius: that is a good question that I brought up on a mailing list recent (ubuntu-phone?)
[14:52] <aquarius> popey, I suspect that instead of a C++ wrapper, you'd write a C++ QML plugin which just execs any named binary -- that way, it can be reused by everyone.
[14:52] <wellsb> Is pure qml somehow preferred over c++/qt/qml?  Performance-wise or otherwise.  My app has just one small component that is c++, but I could probably work around to get that in pure qml.  I just wanted to have the c++ backend to potentially extend functionality in the future.
[14:53] <aquarius> popey, actually, that sounds like the sort of thing that bzoltan could usefully add to the SDK -- a simple QML plugin that shells out.
[14:53] <popey> I agree
[14:53] <popey> I want to make a gui frontend to a cli app
[14:53] <aquarius> bzoltan, suggestion for you ^^ ;-)
[14:53] <bzoltan>  aquarius:  +1
[14:53] <popey> and it seems needlessly complex
[14:54] <dpm> any more questions on IRC?
[14:54] <aquarius> dpm, wellsb had a question about using pure QML apps and whether it's the best idea (which it is :))
[14:55] <wellsb> mhall119: see above
[14:55] <popey> thanks mhall119 dpm bzoltan
[14:55] <dpm> \o/
[14:55] <bzoltan> thanks guys
[14:55] <dpm> thanks popey
[14:55] <dpm> and everyone on IRC
[14:55] <bzoltan> we miss you aquarius
[14:56] <aquarius> thank you, chaps
[14:56] <aquarius> bzoltan, I'm still sort of around :)
[14:56] <bzoltan> aquarius: as we see :)
[14:56] <aquarius> bzoltan, hey, I'm community now, I'm allowed to ask challenging questions ;)
[14:56] <CheeseBurg> later
[14:56] <bzoltan> aquarius: not as if you were afraid before :D
[14:56] <aquarius> CheeseBurg, interesting set of questions about the app store
[14:57] <wellsb> So there's no appreciable performance or resource hit by using c++?  It's just easier to package qml?  I just think having the c++ backend opens doors for future development
[14:57] <aquarius> bzoltan, true enough :)
[14:58] <aquarius> wellsb, c++ will likely be faster than doing processing in pure QML, although QML is highly optimised for the stuff it's good at (moving stuff around on the screen, particle systems, being declarative). However, C++ stuff is quite a lot more annoying to package, compile, and distribute.
[14:58] <wellsb> Or is the recommendation to use pure qml if possible, and if extended functionality is needed, add the c++ backend and worry about multi-arch compilation at that point
[14:59] <aquarius> I would say that the recommendation is to use pure QML, and if you find something that either cannot be done from QML or you notice serious performance problems (which I never have), then look at writing a minimal QML plugin in C++ to do that bit of work in C++ and then expose it to QML.
[15:00] <aquarius> hey! isn't this meant to be HTML% stuff?
[15:00] <aquarius> html5
[15:00] <popey> yes
[15:01] <bzoltan> the udsbot was missing the reorg
[15:01] <popey> silly bot needs to press F5
[15:02] <alex-abreu> popey, must be lost in the backlog ... :)
[15:03] <karni> Will this be "HTML5 Developer Offering"? (possible channel topic mismatch)
[15:03] <karni> It looks to me like the HTML5 session has been moved to this slot.
[15:03] <alex-abreu> karni, yes
[15:04] <karni> alex-abreu: Hi! And thanks
[15:04] <alex-abreu> karni, and you are welcome to join :)
[15:04] <karni> alex-abreu: Thank you. I'll join once I have something interesting to say :)
[15:04] <alex-abreu> karni, you probably do from the user's perspective
[15:05] <karni> alex-abreu: I've mostly provided the feedback in written form. I'm also aware Qt has a number of fixes in place, but had little time verifying that. But I'm here, looking forward to the session :)
[15:06] <karni> (also, some bugs filed, as you may have seen)
[15:06] <alex-abreu> url for the hg https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/26872982614b8314797a2178ae49b1f49232d30f?authuser=1&hl=en
[15:06] <karni> thank you
[15:09] <aquarius> cool, now the bot knows, clearly :0
[15:09] <karni> :)
[15:09] <aquarius> video not started yet?
[15:09] <karni> not here yet ("Starting soon")
[15:10] <aquarius> aha, video starts
[15:10] <karni> You're live
[15:10] <aquarius> ya, we can see you mhall119
[15:10] <karni> aquarius: That's the lag :)
[15:10] <karni> It's not Live® ;D
[15:11] <pmcgowan> yes
[15:11] <mhall119> daker is our awesome community dev :)
[15:11] <karni> Minor echo audible
[15:12] <karni> Sounds good now
[15:12] <daker> there is some seconds of lag
[15:17] <KeanuTheOne> The Grid Unit in Cordova Ubuntu is possible? Via new Cordova plugin?
[15:17] <karni> Re: tabs, you can flesh it out with a few lines of JS until it's fully implemented. Other components looked pretty good to me.
[15:18] <karni> (by flesh out I mean, you need to change active tab style and tab content manually)
[15:19] <karni> Non-Ubuntu specific cordova spec, for those interested http://cordova.apache.org/docs/en/2.8.0/index.html
[15:19] <karni> I mean API docs :)
[15:20] <aquarius> that's a really good question, KeanuTheOne -- alex-abreu, making window.Unity.units.gu() available would be nice. :) Better still would be being able to use units.gu in CSS, but vw/vh/vmin should cover that well enough, I think.
[15:21] <alex-abreu> aquarius, KeanuTheOne it will be discussed later
[15:21] <aquarius> my QUESTION: we not only need documentation of the Ubuntu-specific APIs, but also what the web engine supports. MDN shows how much documentation you need for a browser; I don't think the Ubuntu Browser (and the webapp container) is not documented like that at all, so we don't know which web things it supports. (Does it do vw/vh? WebGL? WebRT? CSS 3 transitions? 3d transitions? :))
[15:22] <aquarius> working with caniuse.com would be a brilliant way to do this
[15:22] <aquarius> it'd help expose the Ubuntu Touch browser to more people, and caniuse documents almost everything you might want to check, and fyrd who runs it is a good guy who would probably love to get a bit paid for helping :)
[15:26] <pmcgowan> qtwebkit capabilities should be documented at qt-project.org
[15:26] <pmcgowan> not that I can find them right now
[15:26] <aquarius> pmcgowan, they should be, but they are not. :)
[15:27] <aquarius> pmcgowan, not in any sensible way. Look at MDN, at the Chrome docs, at the IE docs, at Apple's docs. That's the level of documentation needed for a browser...
[15:28] <pmcgowan> aquarius, agree, just wishing to leverage our upstream more
[15:28] <pmcgowan> may be better with Oxide
[15:28] <aquarius> pmcgowan, yeah. They presumably don't have the resources.
[15:28] <aquarius> I thought Oxide was only for Canonical-supported webapps? I didn't think third-party apps got to use it?
[15:28] <daker> aquarius: i don't think so
[15:28] <KeanuTheOne> (1) Few comments about Cordova&Grid Unit ---> http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/08/22/ubuntu-in-a-nutshell-the-ubuntu-sdk-and-developer-story
[15:30] <KeanuTheOne> (2) [Ubuntu HTML5 Theme] Why the "Ubuntu Shape" is based on images, not on CSS3?
[15:30] <mhall119> KeanuTheOne: is (1) a question?
[15:31] <KeanuTheOne> On Jono page I find few interesting comments.
[15:31] <aquarius> KeanuTheOne, the Ubuntu shape isn't supported by CSS3 -- its curve is unique to Ubuntu and can't be done in CSS with border-radius, I don't believe. It could, I suppose, be done with border-image, but that's still images.
[15:31] <daker> KeanuTheOne: the Ubuntu Shape is somehow "impossible" to do in CSS3 AFAIK, but if you can do it that would be awesome
[15:32] <daker> mhall119: i was thinking about that, i'll do that
[15:32] <aquarius> As a data point, the reason I have not given any decent feedback on web apps stuff (other than that which I've sent to mhall119 etc) is that there is so little documentation that I don't know where to get started :( Google links to developer.ubuntu.com/webapps/ which doesn't even exist any more :( The webapps example on the page explains how to write a webapps script but doesn't explain what to do with
[15:32] <aquarius> that script once you've written it.
[15:32] <karni> lp:~karni/+junk/todo-html5 lp:~karni/+junk/todo-qt
[15:32] <aquarius> I did speak to alex-abreu a while back about how I'm happy to write blog posts about how to write a web app script and install it in my home folder once he tells me how to do that ;-)
[15:33]  * karni occasionally loses G+ stream
[15:34] <karni> alex-abreu: ah thanks
[15:34] <karni> I provided an example of HTML5 (ant Qt counterpart) for anyone interested. Really simple app, just to explore the SDK.
[15:35] <aquarius> This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I think that documenting the existing HTML app story really well is more important than doing further development on it. :(
[15:37] <aquarius> mhall119, vw and vh will probably be fine instead of grid units, at least initially.
[15:37] <karni> aquarius: I feel you. One of crucial points of my feedback was just that, we need more docs, to help people ramp up on how to do it.
[15:37] <pmcgowan> karni, aquarius happy to get contributions
[15:38] <aquarius> pmcgowan, I've already offered to write stuff up, but I don't actually know what's done yet, and alex-abreu doesn't have time to chat to me about it :)
[15:39] <karni> pmcgowan: I know we're all swamped. In my case, sadly I've been reassigned to a very different project as soon as I provided the feedback. But I do hope my feedback (two e-mails, a number of bugs filed) will help the SDK team in general to prioritise tasks with end user in mind.
[15:39] <pmcgowan> karni, much appreciated
[15:40] <karni> pmcgowan: Always happy to help!
[15:40] <aquarius> pmcgowan, so I can't document things because I don't know where to get started! chicken, egg, egg, chicken. :)
[15:41] <karni> aquarius: I found looking at ubuntu-html5-theme helpful (although I know "documentation by code" might not be ideal), it gave me a start point.
[15:41] <daker> mhall119: sure
[15:41] <mhall119> thanks daker
[15:42] <aquarius> pmcgowan, if I have certain basic knowledge (how do I install a webapp script without being root; which unity web apis are available on 13.04, 13.10; where's the best place to get the latest code; how much of the CSS and JavaScript will be bundled with the platform and how much shoudl I include in my project; how do I test my web app on an Ubuntu desktop (loading it in the Ubuntu Browser)), then I am happy
[15:42] <aquarius>  to write a series of blog posts on building an HTML5 web app for Ubuntu Touch.
[15:43] <daker> aquarius: ping me later then i'll show you how to do that
[15:44] <aquarius> daker, ah, cool, you know how? sweet.
[15:44] <karni> me? ;)
[15:44] <karni> the a)b)c) yeah
[15:44] <sethj> karni, might want to name yourself on the pad ;)
[15:44] <karni> sorry
[15:45] <sethj> I mean, name your color
[15:45] <karni> done
[15:45] <aquarius> karni, where's the html5 theme these days?
[15:45] <daker> aquarius: yes
[15:45] <karni> aquarius: /usr/share/ubuntu-html5-theme
[15:45] <aquarius> karni, !! are there examples of how to use it?
[15:46] <karni> aquarius: only QR Code scanner and the dead simple todo that I posted are. No, not there.
[15:46] <alex-abreu> aquarius, there is a ubuntu-html5-theme-examples package
[15:46] <karni> aquarius: I just found it useful to know what is available, and know what I should write in plain HTML/JS VS using a theme component
[15:46] <karni> alex-abreu: uh! oh! \o/
[15:47] <aquarius> woah examples.
[15:47] <alex-abreu> aquarius, yeah ! :)
[15:47]  * aquarius installs the examples package. Nice one alex-abreu ;)
[15:47]  * karni shoots himself in the knee for not knowing that!
[15:48] <karni> alex-abreu: Not sure I know where the examples package would install :'(
[15:48] <karni> ah! /use/share/ubuntu-html5-theme/0.1/examples
[15:48] <aquarius> that's what dpkg --listfiles ubuntu-html5-theme-examples is for ;)
[15:48] <karni> aquarius: That's why you were my mentor haha ;D
[15:48] <KeanuTheOne> When will WebGL be supported on Cordova Ubuntu? Ubuntu Touch 13.10 (QtWebkit/Qt5.1)?
[15:50] <karni> aquarius: I'm embarassed I didn't know that command ;)
[15:50] <aquarius> mhall119, I don't want to be offensive here, but "a cat and mouse game of chasing every API out there" is what you signed up for when you decided to write a custom browser. ;-)
[15:51] <pmcgowan> not sure, need to check on webgl
[15:51] <pmcgowan> yes WebM will come with new video stack I am told
[15:53] <alex-abreu> pmcgowan, thx for the precisions
[15:54] <alex-abreu> karni, in /usr/share/ubuntu-html5-theme/examples ...
[15:54] <alex-abreu> karni, we need some desktop files for it
[15:54] <alex-abreu> for them
[15:54] <karni> alex-abreu: Good idea :)
[15:54] <alex-abreu> yeah
[15:56] <daker> or PhantomJS/SlimerJS
[15:58] <karni> Thank you guys
[15:59] <alex-abreu> thanks!
[15:59] <pmcgowan> thanks
[15:59] <daker> o/
[15:59] <aquarius> thank you, chaps
[15:59] <rvr> Thanks everyone for attending
[16:03] <balloons_uds> whomever wants to be in video discussion; https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/1c7b1dc222f0af7298b58381248e92af19007788?authuser=1&hl=en
[16:13] <Letozaf_> balloons, I think videos are best :)
[16:14] <veebers> balloons_uds: will the results of the tutorials be available after the fact? i.e. videos or results in a blog post?
[16:14] <balloons_uds> http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/tutorials/quality/how-to-write-autopilot-tests/
[16:15] <veebers> i.e. if someone can't make the tutorial at the time
[16:16] <veebers> balloons_uds: ah nice, cheers
[16:18] <fcole90---> Hello everybody =)
[16:18] <balloons_uds> hello :-)
[16:29] <mzanetti> balloons_uds: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity8/trunk/view/head:/tests/qmltests/utils/Unity/Test/tst_UnityTest.qml
[16:30] <mzanetti> balloons_uds: sorry.. messed up
[16:30] <mzanetti> balloons_uds: this is actually the tests for that helpers
[16:30] <balloons_uds> ahh
[16:30] <mzanetti> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity8/trunk/view/head:/tests/utils/modules/Unity/Test/UnityTestCase.qml
[16:31] <mzanetti> balloons_uds: ^
[16:40] <veebers> What sort of functionality would be available in the Base testcase?
[16:42] <veebers> elopio: sure, sounds good. Just getting an idea of what's expected :-)
[16:48] <veebers> elopio: that sounds like logging required from the QML level?
[16:50] <veebers> elopio: sure, how would the emulator for instance tell if the thing opened as expected?
[16:50] <veebers> elopio: other than having to introspect further etc.
[16:50] <veebers> elopio: perhaps I miss-understood the logging requirements
[16:52] <veebers> elopio: sure makes sense
[16:55] <balloons_uds> ty everyone
[18:02] <mhall119> bzoltan: QtCreator session hangout: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/eba45da2e2c7eb637c963e77cdff104e033812c8?authuser=1&hl=en
[18:02] <mhall119> ^^ anybody else who wants to talk about the QtCreator welcome screen and plugins can join too
[18:05] <zyga> hi
[18:05] <zyga> there's a pretty big delay I think
[18:05] <zyga> but it's live
[18:05] <zyga> and it works
[18:05] <zyga> so get rolling
[18:05] <mhall119> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/eba45da2e2c7eb637c963e77cdff104e033812c8?authuser=1&hl=en
[18:06] <zyga> I cannot join, I have some background noise over here
[18:06] <zyga> but I'm interested in seeing how one can jump into app development on ubuntu with html5
[18:12] <daker> zyga: i guess the html5 was 3 hours ago
[18:12] <daker> session*
[18:13] <zyga> huh?
[18:13] <zyga> ohhhh
[18:13] <zyga> yeah
[18:13] <mhall119> zyga: yeah sorry, we had to move stuff around
[18:13] <zyga> schedule was out of date
[18:13] <daker> zyga: :)
[18:14] <daker> zyga: you can find the record here http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21965/appdev-1308-html5-offering/
[18:18] <zyga> thanks!
[18:20] <CheeseBurg> Is JuJu development in Qt Creator as well?
[18:34] <CheeseBurg> The tools section under resources on developer.ubuntu.com needs to be updated, it still shows Quickly
[18:43] <bzoltan> https://launchpad.net/qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu
[18:51] <CheeseBurg> When you talk about openGL template, are you expecting game development to happen in Qt Creator?
[18:53] <CheeseBurg> Just curious
[19:13] <wonderfulWidgets> because it is all qwidgets ->declaritive (just the welcomescreen) is a good idea to have TabStacks ? -> WebViews  ?
[19:13] <wonderfulWidgets> like have the mainwidget then have tabs and in the tab's have homepage and irc and core apps ect
[19:13] <wonderfulWidgets> like a metatab
[19:14] <wonderfulWidgets> or is the idea to have a bunch of buttons on the left ?


[00:04] <sil2100> \o/
[00:04] <sil2100> plars_: hey! raspi images to test ^
[00:08] <sil2100> Updated release tracker
[00:08] <sil2100> See you tomorrow!
[00:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: caja (impish-proposed/universe) [1.26.0-0ubuntu1 => 1.26.0-0ubuntu2] (ubuntu-budgie, ubuntu-mate, ubuntukylin, xubuntu)
[00:25] <vorlon> Wimpy: ^^ final images are already spinning and caja is seeded on 4 flavors; is there a release-critical reason for this upload?
[00:27] <Wimpy> vorlon: Not release critical, but important for post-install updates.
[00:35] <vorlon> Wimpy: as in, post-install updates won't work right from the release version without this fix?
[00:36] <Wimpy> Not sure I understand your question?
[00:36] <vorlon> Wimpy: does it need to be in the release for future updates to work, or is it something that can go in as an SRU?
[00:36] <Wimpy> SRU
[00:36] <vorlon> ok
[00:37] <vorlon> also it looks like the bugs aren't referenced in the .changes file so that will likely need a fix-up reupload at some point
[00:38] <Wimpy> Odd, that are referenced.
[00:38] <Wimpy> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/Sx7DKvgM/
[00:53] <bdmurray> Wimpy: yeah, that's weird but they don't show up in Launchpad-Bugs-Fixed https://launchpadlibrarian.net/563346925/caja_1.26.0-0ubuntu2_source.changes
[01:01] <tsimonq2> Reminds me... kc2bez will be the POC for Lubuntu for 21.04 (with myself/teward as backup), after that point I'll be jumping in to do some major Lubuntu work and you'll see me more often, perhaps as the POC again, but maybe not right away. All depends on college progress. :)
[01:02] <bdmurray> tsimonq2: 22.04 right?
[01:04] <tsimonq2> Er, wait... 21.10. I saw the topic and didn't double check. :)
[01:04] <tsimonq2> (Shows I've been out of it for a release or two...)
[01:05] <kc2bez> confirmed 21.10
[05:33] <cpaelzer> ubuntu-archive: hi, there is a last minute MIR completion for openstack (coreycb / jamespage) related package at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-oslo.metrics/+bug/1943143
[05:34] <cpaelzer> can that still be promoted OR is that an issue in regard to the release that is inbound
[05:34] <cpaelzer> promotion will unblock it from excuses so https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-oslo.messaging/12.9.1-0ubuntu4 would get into impish and be in main then
[05:35] <cpaelzer> The two components to be promoted are in impish already, but in universe and the above PKG is in impish/main already and held back by that component mismatch so far
[05:37] <RAOF> cpaelzer: That package is not seeded (right?), so the release shouldn't be an issue for it.
[05:41] <RAOF> cpaelzer: Have Seth's concerns re: python-oslo.metrics permissions check been resolved?L
[05:43] <cpaelzer> hi RAOF, yes it is not seeded
[05:45] <cpaelzer> The permission fix still waits to land upstream but LGTM there so far https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/oslo.metrics/+/813018
[05:46] <cpaelzer> I think if we consider it a prereq we can ask coreycb to upload an 0.3.0-0ubuntu2 asap to fulfil that
[05:47] <RAOF> ubuntu-openstack is the right team for bug subscriptions?
[05:49] <cpaelzer> it is
[05:49] <RAOF> I think we should upload 0.3.0-0ubuntu2 asap, if it's not too disruptive.
[05:49] <RAOF> That's the easiest way to ensure the fix is in before we release impish :)
[05:49] <cpaelzer> I agree, as the code is ready and easy
[05:49] <cpaelzer> so ping coreycb / jamespage to do that before promoting
[05:49] <cpaelzer> thanks RAOF for your thoughts
[05:51]  * RAOF heads to the shops.
[06:16] <enyc> hrrm alas dealing with lots of IRL-problems
[06:16] <enyc> I have Asus x201 i3-netbook intel-graphics which fails without "nomodeset", black screen desktop etc
[06:17] <enyc> on 21.04 or 21.10 kernels,   can install debian 5.10.0-9 linux image and works
[06:17] <enyc> elsewise would have hchased up and put in more bugreprots or so
[07:17] <sil2100> o/
[07:17] <sil2100> Thanks to wgrant we have a fix for the unleashed boards, so I will be accepting a new u-boot for impish
[07:18] <sil2100> This means a respin of the riscv, pi and (huh) kylin images later today!
[07:19] <sil2100> (since kylin seem to seed u-boot-tools)
[07:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: u-boot (impish-proposed/main) [2021.07+dfsg-0ubuntu6 => 2021.07+dfsg-0ubuntu7] (core)
[07:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted u-boot [source] (impish-proposed) [2021.07+dfsg-0ubuntu7]
[08:02] <sil2100> waveform_: heey!
[08:03] <sil2100> waveform_: I know wgrant is already looking into that, but I guess the more eyeballs the better - could you take a look on why u-boot suddenly started to FTBFS on armhf? It seemed to be fine during the archive rebuild
[08:03] <sil2100> waveform_: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/u-boot/2021.07+dfsg-0ubuntu7/+build/22273004
[08:04] <jamespage> cpaelzer: +1 from me - I think the change is very low risk and we're not looking to enable this as a feature in charmed openstack this cycle anyway
[08:08] <cpaelzer> ok jamespage
[08:09] <cpaelzer> jamespage: I was mostly trying to help to drive this to a resolution asap since the II release is so soon
[08:27] <jamespage> cpaelzer: has the patch been uploaded? I can deal with that now if need be
[08:28] <cpaelzer> jamespage: no it has not been uploaded yet
[08:28] <cpaelzer> jamespage: coreycb submitted it upstream, but nothing is accepted there or in Ubuntu yet
[08:36] <jamespage> cpaelzer: ah sorry just re-read your comment - I'm doing this right now
[08:47] <jamespage> cpaelzer: uploading now
[08:47] <jamespage> done
[08:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: python-oslo.metrics (impish-proposed/universe) [0.3.0-0ubuntu1 => 0.3.0-0ubuntu2] (no packageset)
[08:48] <jamespage> in the queue for the release team to review
[08:48] <jamespage> ^^
[08:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted python-oslo.metrics [source] (impish-proposed) [0.3.0-0ubuntu2]
[08:55] <waveform_> sil2100, will do
[08:59] <sil2100> waveform: ...actually wgrant just found the issue, it's a bizzarre little thing
[09:07] <waveform> sil2100, what was it?
[09:09] <sil2100> waveform: sooo, apparently there was a missing newline in one of the config files, and if the files were returned by 'find' (and sorted) in a specific order, this would cause one config option to be spliced incorrectly and basically missing from the target config
[09:10] <sil2100> Apparently previously on our armhf buildd builders find was returning the files in a 'lucky' order so that the faulty missing-newline file was probably always concatenated at the end? But now suddenly it wasn't!
[09:10] <waveform> sil2100, ah, missing end-newline
[09:11] <sil2100> Yes
[09:11] <sil2100> This goes into my book of 'weird failures' for sure
[09:11] <sil2100> wgrant: had to dig into that quite a lot, since it was not reproducible locally!
[09:11] <waveform> and of course find doesn't sort by default, it's just "fs-returned" order
[09:12] <sil2100> wgrant: thanks again!
[09:12]  * sil2100 waits for the upload to appear
[09:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: u-boot (impish-proposed/main) [2021.07+dfsg-0ubuntu7 => 2021.07+dfsg-0ubuntu8] (core)
[09:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted u-boot [source] (impish-proposed) [2021.07+dfsg-0ubuntu8]
[09:23] <wgrant> Oh sorry, was ignoring this window :)
[09:23] <wgrant> Will propose upstream, I guess. My first whitespace-only change...
[09:24] <slyon> FYI: I've uploaded FTBFS fixes for libunity and glm into impish, that could become 0-day SRUs, at the release team's discretion
[09:33] <sil2100> slyon: will look at those in a bit, thanks o/
[09:33] <sil2100> And I'll file unblock hints for u-boot
[10:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: zfs-linux (impish-proposed/main) [2.0.6-1ubuntu2 => 2.0.6-1ubuntu2.1] (core, kernel-dkms)
[10:40] <xnox> sil2100:  ^ is like zero-day sru candidate
[10:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: aplus-fsf (impish-proposed/universe) [4.22.1-10.1ubuntu1 => 4.22.1-10.1ubuntu2] (no packageset)
[10:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted aplus-fsf [source] (impish-proposed) [4.22.1-10.1ubuntu2]
[10:46] <sil2100> xnox: o/
[10:56] <ricotz> hello :)
[10:56] <ricotz> so the queue is open for zero-day SRUs already?
[11:02] <xnox> ricotz:  the queue is always there..... things uploaded to it might end up as srus, or they might end up as JJ uploads.
[11:03] <ricotz> xnox, I see, thanks
[11:41] <paride> sil2100, I submitted some test results, but added https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/casper/+bug/1840122 as a bug, to which I commented with my findings
[11:41] <paride> TBH I'm not 100% sure it's the same issue, part of the error is slightly different, and finalrd is installed in the live system
[11:42] <paride> so they look very similar at least
[11:47] <paride> xnox, ^^ you fixed this one ~2 years ago. Let me know if seeing it fail again rings a bell...
[12:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: python3-defaults (impish-proposed/main) [3.9.4-1build1 => 3.9.4-1ubuntu1] (core, i386-whitelist)
[12:25] <wgrant> Verified that u-boot -0ubuntu8 is fixed on HiFive Unleashed.
[12:32] <sil2100> \o/
[12:33] <sil2100> Thanks, I see u-boot is a migration candidate, so we should be able to respin the preinstalled variants soon
[13:07] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: dh-python (impish-proposed/universe) [4.20201102ubuntu4 => 4.20201102ubuntu5] (i386-whitelist)
[13:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted dh-python [source] (impish-proposed) [4.20201102ubuntu5]
[13:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: python-caja (impish-proposed/universe) [1.26.0-0ubuntu1 => 1.26.0-0ubuntu2] (ubuntu-budgie, ubuntu-mate)
[13:11] <sil2100> Ok, I see u-boot migrated!
[13:13] <sil2100> bdmurray, vorlon: respinning raspi and riscv images o/
[13:13] <sil2100> Oh, and kylin too
[13:14] <sil2100> Might be a good time to create the source isos too
[13:27] <doko> please can you reset the pysph/armhf autopkg test? the packages is not built on armhf anymore
[13:27] <bdmurray> doko: I can do that
[13:36] <ginggs> bdmurray: also python-nanoget/1.12.2-4 please? it has regressed in -release
[13:36] <ginggs> https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/python-nanoget/impish/amd64
[13:39] <bdmurray> ginggs: just for amd64?
[13:40] <ginggs> bdmurray: for all please
[13:43] <bdmurray> ginggs: is there a bug about it regressing?
[13:44] <ginggs> bdmurray: not yet
[13:44] <bdmurray> can you make one if its weak sauce so I can reference it in a comment?
[13:46] <ginggs> bdmurray: sure, are you happy with a debian bug #? then i can kill 2 birds
[13:47] <bdmurray> that's fine
[13:52] <bdmurray> dbungert: Do you have any more information on bug 1946828?
[13:55] <dbungert> bdmurray: I can reproduce it pretty easily - is there anything else that might help?
[13:56] <bdmurray> dbungert: writing a release note as it won't get sorted
[13:56] <dbungert> oh, I was going to try some different disk configs and see if it goes away, I'll look into that
[13:56] <dbungert> sure, I can help release-note it
[13:58] <bdmurray> If you can write an initial draft in the discourse post I can review that
[13:59] <ginggs> bdmurray: debian bug #996374
[14:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Kylin Desktop amd64 [Impish Final] has been updated (20211013)
[14:02] <sil2100> ^ that image rebuild was actually not necessary, but oh well!
[14:02] <sil2100> I figured that out too late
[14:04] <bdmurray> so that's a failing of seeded-in-ubuntu though?
[14:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Desktop arm64+raspi [Impish Final] has been updated (20211013)
[14:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted augeas [source] (bionic-proposed) [1.10.1-2ubuntu1]
[14:09] <bdmurray> jawn-smith, waveform ^
[14:09] <waveform> bdmurray, thanks
[14:11] <bdmurray> ginggs: hinted
[14:12] <ginggs> bdmurray: thanks!
[14:13] <paride> xnox, apparently finalrd is racey with the actual teardown of the live system
[14:13] <paride> xnox, see my comment here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/casper/+bug/1840122
[14:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted nova [source] (bionic-proposed) [2:17.0.13-0ubuntu4]
[14:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server Subiquity amd64 [Impish Final] has been updated (20211013)
[14:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server Subiquity arm64 [Impish Final] has been updated (20211013)
[14:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server Subiquity ppc64el [Impish Final] has been updated (20211013)
[14:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server Subiquity s390x [Impish Final] has been updated (20211013)
[14:29] <xnox> paride:  nice!
[14:32] <paride> xnox :) can we somehow make finalrd stop early at shutdown?
[14:33] <paride> oh just saw your comments there
[14:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted dnsmasq [source] (bionic-proposed) [2.79-1ubuntu0.5]
[15:10] <vorlon> coreycb: octavia has not passed its MIR but is seeded as supported and is currently in mismatches, can it be unseeded for release?
[15:11] <dbungert> bdmurray: LP: #1946507 kernel logs look like the one in mine
[15:17] <bdmurray> Oh ha, I hadn't paid enough attention
[15:18] <vorlon> xnox: can you remind me what the intent was in splitting the maas seed between "supported" and "community"?  Because the packages in 'community' are in component-mismatches with no progress, so if we aren't serious about getting these moved into main I'm not sure why they're seeded at all
[15:21] <coreycb> vorlon: yes that sounds reasonable
[15:21] <vorlon> coreycb: shall I go ahead?
[15:21] <coreycb> vorlon: yes, it's still needing a new security review I believe
[15:22] <vorlon> coreycb: done, thanks
[15:22] <coreycb> vorlon: thanks
[15:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected libunity [source] (impish-proposed) [7.1.4+19.04.20190319-6]
[15:24] <vorlon> mwhudson: component-mismatches says ubuntu-server-minimal should be demoted, cough
[15:25] <sil2100> :o
[15:26] <vorlon> ugh my browser has decided that https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.html and https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.html should be rendered with different fonts
[15:31] <xnox> vorlon:  it was supposed to have community things excluded from MIR reports and missmatches. And i failed to make component missmatched do that right.
[15:31] <vorlon> xnox: what was the remaining rationale for keeping it seeded at all?
[15:31] <xnox> vorlon:  the intention of seeding community is to prevent these packages getting remove from the Ubuntu Archive, because they are staged into maas snap.
[15:31] <vorlon> ah
[15:31] <xnox> or can be used by maas snap.
[15:32] <xnox> vorlon:  why i can't run components-missmatches with exclude maas-community is a mystery to me.
[15:32] <xnox> ditto why running germinate against a rebuild archive produces widely different results form the main archive (i.e. lots of things missing from ubuntu-desktop seed for an otherwise matching archive)
[15:38] <sil2100> dbungert: LP: #1946668 were you able to check if this is fixed now with the latest images?
[15:38] <dbungert> sil2100: yes, fixed!
[15:43] <jamespage> hi release team - I've made a minor snafu and missed the OVN 21.09.0 release announce at the start of the month
[15:44] <jamespage> we've been running snapshots and one of the outstanding issues we have during testing is resolved by a commit between the last snapshot and release
[15:44] <jamespage> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ovn/+bug/1947003
[15:44] <jamespage> I've documented inthe bug report and I'm currently building packages to validate
[15:45] <jamespage> diff if small (295L) and risk looks fairly low so looking for guidance on whether to upload for release team review or hold until post release and SRU with the normal regression testing that we do
[15:54] <sil2100> jamespage: hey! I think we'd like the archive to settle now, but we could potentially take it as a 0-day SRU
[15:55] <jamespage> sil2100: yeah that was my guess
[15:55] <sil2100> Let me add it to the list
[15:56] <jamespage> great yhxs
[15:56] <jamespage> thx rather!
[16:07] <dbungert> bdmurray: is there some sort of deadline on release notes?  I want to understand the issue better first so we don't end up with a release note that is basically "installer might hang lol"
[16:08] <bdmurray> dbungert: well before release is the deadline but today would be better
[16:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server arm64+raspi [Impish Final] has been updated (20211013)
[16:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server armhf+raspi [Impish Final] has been updated (20211013)
[16:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server riscv64+unleashed [Impish Final] has been updated (20211013)
[16:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Server riscv64+unmatched [Impish Final] has been updated (20211013)
[16:33] <jawn-smith> hooray new pi images
[16:43] <sil2100> \o/
[16:52] <blackboxsw> Hello SRU vanguards: I think we've reached rbasak's end of day for SRU review of ubuntu-advantage-tools. Is there any chance that we can get an SRU reviewer to look at the uploads for ubuntu-advantage-tools in X, B, F and H per https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-advantage-tools/+bug/1942929.
[16:57] <blackboxsw> Given that 0-day SRU is pending an accepted release, we would like to start the verification on X B F and H for this content. Azure is very interested in the IMDS API version bump that is included in this release.
[17:09] <sil2100> bdmurray, vorlon: looking at the isotracker, I guess I'll prepublish the images - server got a basically no-change rebuild and previously it was green
[17:09] <sil2100> And pre-publishing doesn't have much impact really
[17:17] <vorlon> sil2100: ack
[17:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: libreoffice (focal-proposed/main) [1:6.4.7-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> => 1:6.4.7+mimo3-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (ubuntu-desktop)
[18:02] <sil2100> Ok, prepublished
[18:26] <bdmurray> apw: will more information be added to the "Linux kernel" section of the release notes or should "tbc." be dropped?
[18:54] <dbungert> bdmurray: I don't seem to have release note edit permissions.  Can you merge this?  https://gist.githubusercontent.com/dbungert/7bd9764874b24d0f3183cf7b98021de0/raw/8c5610f1a23e2412ce5052cda4a8b7769e06f086/relnotes.md
[18:59] <bdmurray> dbungert: added, thanks!
[19:02] <dbungert> bdmurray: thanks, but can you tweak it?  Looks like a closing bracket got lost.
[19:05] <bdmurray> dbungert: sorted
[20:20] <mwhudson> vorlon: oh oops i guess i never added it to the seed
[20:21] <mwhudson> vorlon: will the archive get published again before release?
[20:22] <mwhudson> oh i see you fixed it
[20:35] <vorlon> mwhudson: yeah :)
[20:36] <vorlon> c-m now properly cleaned up, only the community-maas stuff and the i386 nonsense left
[20:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected mate-media [source] (impish-proposed) [1.26.0-0ubuntu2]
[20:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected mate-notification-daemon [source] (impish-proposed) [1.26.0-0ubuntu2]
[20:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected mate-menus [source] (impish-proposed) [1.26.0-0ubuntu2]
[20:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected caja [source] (impish-proposed) [1.26.0-0ubuntu2]
[20:55] <sergiodj> sil2100: bdmurray: hi guys, u-a-t is waiting on the SRU queue for X/B/F/H (there's also a 0-day SRU for Impish which has been pre-approved by vorlon, but I think that one will be dealt with in the following days).  I would like to kindly ask if you could take a look at these packages tomorrow when your day starts, so that we can have these updates finally done.  let me know if you need more
[20:55] <sergiodj> details; blackboxsw or I will be happy to provide more info.  TIA
[20:57] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected dkms [sync] (impish-proposed) [2.8.7-1]
[20:57] <bdmurray> sergiodj: when my day starts tomorrow I'll be working on finalizing impish
[20:58] <bdmurray> sergiodj: did you say there was some important bug being fixed though?
[22:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu Studio DVD amd64 [Impish Final] has been marked as ready


 http://code.qt.io/cgit/qt/qtbase.git/commit/?h=5.11.2&id=25feee4e061b99edab79503d81f5bd045c6c8e3d
 as we now have new glibc!
 already metioned to @tsimonq2 in kubuntu-devel. just copying here for the record
 ack
 Thanks https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtbase-opensource-src/5.11.1+dfsg-7ubuntu1
 No problem.
 In Debian too, in case they try to jump the gun on glibc.


[00:07] <monttyle> Hi, how do I start sshd from the livecd.
[00:08] <monttyle> 'apt-get install sshd' just gives me 'cannot find sshd' but I'm definitely on the network.
[00:08] <knome> you want to start an ssh server? try installing openssh-server
[00:08] <mr_pouit> try openssh-server instead of sshd
[00:09] <mr_pouit> meh ;)
[00:09] <knome> mr_pouit, ;)
[00:09] <monttyle> Thanks
[00:12] <monttyle> And it works.  Thanks again.
[08:30] <Arpad2> hello
[08:32] <Arpad2> on startup, before logging in i have a message that asks for skipping (press S) or manual (press M) mounting. how can I fix that this message dont appear?
[09:21] <KE1HA> !pastebinit > KE1HA
[09:38] <Sysi> !investigation > KE1HA
[09:38] <Sysi> :)
[09:40] <Arpad2> on startup, before logging in i have a message that asks for skipping (press S) or manual (press M) mounting. how can I fix that this message not to appear?
[09:41] <KE1HA> Sysi:  was looking fer a good image-pastebinit :-) found one.
[09:42] <Sysi> Arpad2: sounds like fstab-issue, is there other messages?
[09:42] <Arpad2> when I press S aftzer the logging in screen shows
[09:43] <Arpad2> it offers also to wait without pressing ath
[09:47] <Arpad2> amugy nézem tönn mint 10 éves a gép amit vettem :(
[10:31] <Tux^> Hi, All, i have downloaded 10.10 alpha 3 iso and mdm check is fine
[10:31] <Tux^> everything is going fine
[10:31] <Tux^> except the mouse
[10:31] <Tux^> i am not able to see the mouse !
[10:31] <Sysi> !10.10
[10:31] <Tux^> any idea what needs to be done ?
[10:31] <Tux^> ok
[10:31] <Tux^> thanks
[10:31] <Tux^> sorry
[11:27] <Herix> Hi all
[11:28] <Sysi> !hi
[11:29] <Herix> So, I have this list of users to choose from on starting a session. Is there a way to hide the technical users (those who exist for the sole purpose to run a daemon and the like) ?
[11:35] <Sysi> at least if you remove entire list.. i think there's option for that in system → login screen
[11:38] <Herix> thxx Sysi :)
[14:00] <dreamtraveler> rs
[17:59] <vpa> Hello. I need to find out how to reset the window manager settings in Xubuntu.
[18:04] <vpa> This is what happened: I was testing different window styles in a fresh Xubuntu installation when, as I selected the "Xfce" style, I got thrown out back to the login screen... and it wouldn't let me in!   Well, by typing Ctrl-Alt-F2 I was able to log in in text mode, but it seems that I have to find out a way to reset the window manager settings before getting logged in with the windowing system working.
[18:05] <Sysi> rm .config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfwm4.xml
[18:06] <vpa> Thanks, I'll try that!
[18:37] <vpa> (help
[18:46] <heysuess> Hey, can anyone tell me how to make the keys crtl, alt, prnt scrn take a screenshot on xubuntu?
[18:48] <Sysi> heysuess: settings → somethingAboutKeymap → hotkeys
[18:49] <Sysi> add new, command is: xfce4-screenshooter --fullscreen
[18:50] <Sysi> sorry for bad translations for navigating menu, hopefully you find out what to do
[18:50] <heysuess> Yes thank you for your help
[18:51] <vpa> Sysi: For the record, the xfwm problem that I reported some time (an hour?) ago was caused by the theme "Wildbush", not "Xfce". I guess I should report the problem into some official bug tracker.
[18:51] <Sysi> !bugs
[18:57] <vpa> Thanks... Umm, I wonder what package those window manager settings belong to.
[18:58] <vpa> yes, it could be xfwm4-themes...
[19:03] <slow-motion> hi
[19:07] <charlie-tca> vpa: that is reported already
[19:30] <vpa> Regarding the looks of Xubuntu: Is there any way to change the black color of the panels to something else?  xfwm themes seem not to affect the panels.
[19:31] <Sysi> settings → appearance
[19:35] <vpa> Thanks, now I got it.
[19:36] <Sysi> gtk- vs. xfwm -theme
[19:40] <vpa> Sysi: I changed the themes under xfwm-related settings...
[20:11] <retardent> hi
[20:11] <retardent> just installed xubuntu, need a little help?
[20:11] <charlie-tca> !help
[20:12] <retardent> ok /noob
[20:12] <retardent> well I have restarted my computer with xubuntu 10.04 installed and logged in and the bar at the top and bottom of the desktop are not showing
[20:12] <VanessaE> Is there a way to get xfce's mixer to *not* show some devices in its drop down menu?  Some of them are making the window ridiculously wide
[20:12] <retardent> how can I remedy that?
[20:13] <charlie-tca> !panels | retardent
[20:13] <retardent> !panels
[20:13] <Sysi> no need to repeat
[20:14] <retardent> ok that was easy thanks, why did they disappear in the first place though?
[20:15] <charlie-tca> something went wrong :-(
[20:27] <slow-motion> n8
[22:15] <vpa> Is there some way to make Xubuntu show the application icon in the top-left corner of its window?  Like the orange fox in Firefox window?
[22:16] <Sysi> window manager settings, some button does it, maybe vary depending on theme
[22:22] <vpa> Thanks, it indeeds depends on theme -- I should have tried some more. Thanks, Sysi, you have been greatly helpful to me tonight. Bye...
[22:44] <Dekkard> try right clicking on the icon and clicking on move


[13:52] <mike00> hi, I would like to know why the ubuntu touch theme is becoming so flat...?
[14:20] <Femma1> raeshambrook_:  will be able to help you with your question mike00
[14:20] <Femma1> raeshambrook_:  mike00 is asking why the ubuntu touch theme is becoming so flat?
[14:25] <raeshambrook_> mike00: hi mike, there was several reasons why we have moved in a flat direction. we are developing a visual language we've been developing for a couple of years now, called Suru. It's based on origami and paper and white space, simplicity fits in with that. Also, this direction will help our designs become more scalable as we become convergent and it's a good base to build upon. Last, we think it's a good idea to keep u
[14:26] <raeshambrook_> mike00: so there were lots of different reasons for us to go that direction, i hope this helps?
[14:49] <mike00> is there someone in this channel?
[14:53] <raeshambrook_> mike00: did you get my message about flat design?
[14:53] <mike00> no...
[14:55] <raeshambrook_> mike00: oh ok, here it is again: there was several reasons why we have moved in a flat direction. we are developing a visual language we've been developing for a couple of years now, called Suru. It's based on origami and paper and white space, simplicity fits in with that. Also, this direction will help our designs become more scalable as we become convergent and it's a good base to build upon. Last, we think it's a goo
[14:55] <raeshambrook_> mike00: meant competitors for the last word
[14:57] <mike00> but I don't like the new keyboards...
[15:00] <raeshambrook_> mike00: sorry to hear but the reason why we changed it is exactly what i mentioned before. we had to change the keyboard because the old one was looking really strange on tablet, so the design needed to be much more simple
[15:01] <mike00> oh.. I understand
[15:04] <mike00> yesterday I was trying creating an icon for my app. I follow some instructions on the design section of the ubuntu site and I find somes a bit difficult to realise. which program do you suggest me to create the icon?
[15:06] <raeshambrook_> mike00: our icon designer uses inkscape
[15:08] <mike00> me too, but I found some instructions a bit difficult, like the background
[15:10] <mike00> some tips to realise Folds or object? how can I create a quite realistic thing, like a tree or everything?
[15:23] <raeshambrook_> mike00: that's kind of a tough one to answer over a forum like this, as i can't see the design you're after and it would be too long to explain. what i would recommend is looking up some tutorials to help achieve the look you want to
[15:23] <raeshambrook_> mike00: btw, the icon doesnt necessarily need a fold. it can be as simple or elaborate as you want
[15:23] <mike00> where can I see tutorial? and what I'll have to search to?
[15:25] <raeshambrook_> mike00: it depend on what you want to do. so if you want to work in inkscape and do a tree, i'd see if there are any inkscape tutorials covering trees or landscapes
[15:26] <mike00> with a standard search engine? like DuckDuckGo?
[15:28] <raeshambrook_> mike00: yeah, ive just had a google search and it looks like there's tons of inkscape tutorials
[15:28] <mike00> thanks


[10:50] <javier4> abeato: I wrote a netreg plugin for mtk2 (the REGISTRATION_SUSPENDED issue) taking in example the voicecall one. It seems to gets ignored by ofono. I noticed that the mtk(1) netreg one register the action through a socket inside gril_create function, while the voicecall (on both mtk plugin versions) doesn't need it and register directly on a data struct.
[10:50] <javier4> mtk2.c got no gril_registration function, then I try to register my reply on a data struct like voicecall do. It doesn't work. Should I add gril_create to mtk2.c?
[10:51] <abeato> javier4, probablly it will be better if you provide an MP to https://github.com/rilmodem/ofono and we can work from there
[10:51] <abeato> *PR
[10:53] <javier4> abeato: ok thanks. Later I'll fork the project.
[10:53] <abeato> great
[13:01] <javier4> abeato: why is the code inside that repo so old? It's at 1.12, while UT vivid rootfs uses 1.17.
[13:03] <abeato> javier4, https://github.com/rilmodem/ofono/tree/master is 1.17
[13:19] <javier4> abeato: you're right. My fault. But there are some differences with this source https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/stable-phone-overlay/+sourcepub/6828749/+listing-archive-extra
[14:59] <javier4> abeato: https://github.com/rilmodem/ofono/pull/262 Read you later. :)
[14:59] <abeato> javier4, awesome, thanks
[17:10] <Prodyut> Can i boot ubuntu touch on samsung galaxy core 2 from zip file ? my device ram is 752 mb and storage 4 gb
[17:10] <Prodyut> gb
[17:11] <dobey> !devices | Prodyut
[17:11] <dobey> probably the answer is "there is no port for that device"
[17:17] <Prodyut> But ther is not listed my device .there have samsung galaxy s2
[17:18] <dobey> so the answer is there is no port for your device
[17:18] <dobey> and literally all the ports which aren't hosted on the official system-image server, or ubports, are extremely old and unlikely to be useful, even if it was listed there
[17:21] <Prodyut> which you min by port?
[17:23] <dobey> phone/tablet images require porting to specific devices
[17:23] <Prodyut> ok thanks for this
[17:24] <dobey> there is no generic image that you could install