[05:42] <poolie> jam, hi?
[06:22] <poolie> lifeless, hi?
[06:36] <poolie> spiv, hi?
[07:48] <lifeless> poolie: ?
[07:50] <vila> hi all !
[07:56] <poolie> hi there vila
[07:56] <poolie> vila: ah, more free advice :)
[07:57] <vila> ? oom thread ? (catching up with mail)
[07:57] <poolie> on what beta means
[08:00] <vila> oh, my take on that is to stop using 'gold' and just say 'source released' which is what we do anyway
[08:00] <poolie> yep
[08:00] <poolie> i think that's the only change
[08:01] <vila> oh, great to see we agree ;)
[08:02] <vila> as for beta/snapshot... I don't have a strong opinion either way
[08:03] <Merwin> hi
[08:09] <poolie> i don't see much point in changing
[08:10] <poolie> vila, so basically i'm going to try inserting a layer that spills out big strings to temp files
[08:10] <poolie> i think it will be at least tolerably clean
[08:11] <vila> hmm, I was wondering about that but couldn't decide if that would be enough, good to try anyway
[08:12] <poolie> i think it's worth a try, yeah
[08:12] <poolie> vila re detecting lp being down
[08:12] <poolie> mm
[08:12] <poolie> i think some of that should go in lazr.restful
[08:12] <poolie> then we need to release and deploy it
[08:13] <poolie> another thing we really need to do is to finish jam's patches
[08:14] <vila> lazr.restful, right, but I'm not sure all of them can go there and I need a solution *now*
[08:14] <poolie> :)
[08:15] <vila> I've seen some 502 bad gateway which probably need to be reported when they are valid errors
[08:15] <vila> and deciding if they are valid or not seem... untractable(sp?)  ;)
[08:16] <vila> re-connection patches... as mentioned, I'm worried we need to address some pre-requisites first or run into an endless whack-a-mole game
[08:17] <lifeless> poolie: you pinged ?
[08:17] <poolie> yep, unping
[08:18] <vila> we went down a road hoping to fix fallouts on the basis that they were no race, reality disagreed
[08:19] <vila> there is still a tough call about using an external server or not
[08:19] <vila> I call it tough as I'm not sure anymore that it will be enough to avoid the race(s)
[08:19] <vila> I *thought* it was the way to go, I'm not sure anymore
[08:32] <poolie> external server for what?
[08:33] <vila> test server
[08:33] <vila> as opposed to test server in the same process
[08:33] <poolie> oh i see i thought you were still talking about udd
[08:34] <poolie> what's the down side?
[08:34] <vila> the whole 'race chasing' saga has revealed many races were really about running the client and the server in the same process, but the late issues have a different smell
[08:34] <vila> down side of using an external server ?
[08:35] <vila> for one it requires up-front work to make sure it works,
[08:35] <vila> then, if the race is not caused by using an internal one, it's useless to use an external one :)
[08:39] <poolie> hm
[08:39] <poolie> it does not seem like it will often make things much worse
[08:39] <poolie> i thought we already did the work to run it externalyl?
[08:40] <vila> for other kinds of server, yes, I did wrote a plugin, and internally I think there are tests that runs it externally in an ad-hoc way
[08:42] <vila> but I was about to mention that I didn't look too closely to the code itself yet, my last work was to triage the failures on babune to get an overview
[08:43] <vila> from there I concluded that we really have a race (it happens on all platforms which rules out a kernel issue and also probably rules out a python issue)
[08:44] <vila> the question, to me, now boils down to: is this (or these) race(s) caused by running an internal server OR do we have a genuine bug in the smart server
[08:47] <poolie> :/
[08:47] <poolie> and they're all intermittent?
[08:47] <poolie> and they don't show up if you run the tests repeatedly locally?
[08:49] <vila> yup
[08:50] <vila> i.e. we're in a pretty bad situation were we can suddenly see failures to land valid stuff
[08:50] <poolie> i have never seen these hangs or failures
[08:50] <poolie> i don't think i've seen them on pqm either
[08:51] <poolie> therefore they don't exist
[08:51] <poolie> jk
[08:53] <vila> hehe
[08:54] <poolie> no, but seriously
[08:54] <poolie> it's specific to running under jenkins, or on those vms?
[08:54] <vila> mgz and I have been unfortunate enough to encounter them while submitting to pqm ;)
[08:54] <poolie> ah
[09:09] <poolie> vila, so
[09:10] <poolie> what's next?
[09:10] <vila> hmm
[09:11] <vila> so, I identified one race and have a patch for it against 2.4. I ran into conflicts trying to merge up to trunk
[09:12] <vila> and these conflicts are (unsurprisingly) in the test servers
[09:12] <vila> which means reworking a bunch of later submissions
[09:12] <vila> but that's only one race and I'm far from sure it's the only one
[09:13] <vila> and, so far, I didn't want to switch from other stuff I'm already working on :-}
[09:16] <poolie> ok
[09:21] <vila> in summary: those failures are bad but not critical (and hopefully will stay spurious, avoiding a total pqm hang), we probably want to fix them before reviewing/landing the reconnection stuff (to avoid more work)
[09:22] <vila> this hasn't reach the top of my TODO list yet to avoid losing steam in other areas
[09:25] <vila> oh, and jelmer encountered one of them too during an armel build IIRC
[09:27] <spiv> poolie: I'm around for a bit now
[09:33] <poolie> hey
[09:33] <poolie> i was going to talk about some memory stuff but it's ok now
[09:33] <poolie> i wouldn't mind taking up your lunch offer some itme
[09:34] <mgz> morning all
[09:34] <poolie> hi there
[09:38] <poolie> thanks for the review jam
[09:38] <jam> np
[09:40] <spiv> poolie: sure, how about Wednesday?
[09:42] <poolie> wfm
[09:49] <mgz> re races earlier, they're less obvious on PQM mostly because we do far fewer runs there than across all of babune
[09:51] <mgz> I've had both of the two main flavours on pqm though, and one of the bugs was filed by jelmer because it happened on a buildd
[10:02] <_arch> hi
[10:02] <poolie> night all
[10:02] <poolie> i'll be out tomorrow
[10:03] <mgz> have fun at the races!
[10:03] <poolie> thanks
[10:03] <_arch> I have a question concerning symbolic links in bazaar
[10:03] <poolie> no actual races
[10:05] <_arch> I have a working tree that contains a lot of subdirectories that contain a bunch of files. I need to create symbolic links from these files to other subdirectories, and my colleagues need to be able to use these files just by pulling from our repo
[10:06] <_arch> any ideas how to accomplish this?
[10:06] <mgz> I don't understand the problem statement.
[10:07] <_arch> perhaps it's not very clear :)
[10:08] <mgz> it sounds like you're trying to version references to thinks outside the tree, then want people to get your branch and somehow be able to resolve the links?
[10:08] <mgz> that's clearly not going to work.
[10:08] <jam> _arch: Assuming it is something like "bzr init work"; work/files/a; work/links/to_a
[10:08] <mgz> s/thinks/things/
[10:08] <jam> bzr will be able to track them appropriately, as long as you use relative symlinks
[10:08] <_arch> great
[10:08] <_arch> problem solved :)
[10:08] <jam> eg cd work/links, ln -s ../files/a to_a
[10:08] <jam> not full paths
[10:08] <jam> cd work/links
[10:08] <jam> ln -s /home/_arch/path/to/work/files/a
[10:09] <jam> however, it all needs to be in one tree if you want 'bzr pull' to just work
[10:09] <jam> if you have >1 tree, then they'll at least have to pull in each tree
[10:10] <_arch> I must have created my links improperly. Thanks a lot
[10:11] <mgz> bzr could probably complain if you try and version symlinks with absolute paths
[10:11] <mgz> as that's generally going to be a mistake
[10:12] <jam> mgz: not really, just a different use case. "bzr init x; mkdir bin; cd bin; ln -s /usr/bin/python py"
[10:13] <mgz> huh.
[10:13] <jam> or maybe /etc/alternatives ?
[11:33] <jelmer> the daily builds now have translations enabled
[11:33] <jelmer> gwenhwyvar:~% LANGUAGE=es_ES bzr rocks
[11:33] <jelmer> ¡Seguro que no!
[12:14] <vila> I don't speak spanish but this sounds like a little joke :)
[12:14] <vila> shouldn't that be s/no/si/ ?
[12:19] <jelmer> vila: yeah :)
[12:33] <Pegasus_RPG> Hello. I just set up a BZR repo on my web server using SFTP/SSH and test-committed a change from my local checkout. The commit worked fine but the file hasn't changed. How can I find out what is going on?
[12:35] <jelmer> Pegasus_RPG: bzr doesn't update remote working trees (push should warn you about this)
[12:35] <jelmer> Pegasus_RPG: you can use the push-and-update plugin to ssh into the server to update the working tree
[12:37] <Pegasus_RPG> jelmer: But I initially pushed using sftp
[12:37] <Pegasus_RPG> then made a checkout (I like checkouts better)
[12:37] <Pegasus_RPG> then made a change, then committed
[12:37] <jelmer> Pegasus_RPG: bzr won't update the checkout, just the branch, over sftp
[12:38] <Pegasus_RPG> I need bzr+ssh://  ?
[12:38] <jelmer> Pegasus_RPG: no, you'll need something like the push-and-update plugint to update the remote working tree
[12:38] <Pegasus_RPG> so how does a commit work with launchpad then?
[12:39] <Pegasus_RPG> I've been doing that for years
[12:39] <jam> jelmer, mgz, vila: Has there been a qbzr *release* to correlate with the Unicode encoding problem, or is 2.5b3 supposed to include qbzr trunk?
[12:45] <jelmer> jam: I'm not sure, I'm having trouble finding the unicode bug at the moment
[12:46] <jam> bug #889208
[12:46] <jam> well, 872616 I guess
[12:48] <vila> installers for betas are supposed to carry tips unless specifically told otherwise no ?
[12:48] <jelmer> jam: I suspect you'll need trunk as (as far as I can tell) qbzr hasn't done a release since that bug was reported
[12:50] <jam> vila: nope
[12:50] <jam> vila: at least, the last 99 windows installers didn't
[12:50] <jam> perhaps I've just been doing them all wrong
[12:50] <vila> too bad, that's what OSX installers do :-/
[12:51] <vila> they switch to official releases or specific revisions when .0 is reached
[12:52] <vila> the idea being to give some exposure to plugins during the betas and give some incentive to plugin authors to do some official releases
[12:53] <Pegasus_RPG> jelmer: I'm confused...how does Bazaar accomplish it's main function if users can't update the server's repo by default?
[12:53] <jelmer> Pegasus_RPG: it can update the repository, but it doesn't update the files in the working tree
[12:54] <jelmer> Pegasus_RPG: you'll notice that if you run "bzr up" in the remote repository it will create those files
[12:54] <jam> vila: it seems a bit odd to expose trunk's tip, and then revert it to a released version if the plugin doesn't actually make a release.
[12:54] <Pegasus_RPG> jelmer: actually, it complains   bzr: ERROR: No WorkingTree exists for "file:///var/www/Browns/OperationsSystem/.bzr/checkout/".
[12:54] <vila> jam: which is why I said "or specific revisions"
[12:55] <jam> vila: sure. Though IMO it isn't the packager's decision what version of X should be released to the world, but up to upstream. Again, people can certainly have different opinions.
[12:56] <jam> we can certainly change the release process, the build tool is capable of releasing from tip or from explicit versions
[12:56] <jam> I'm certainly not planning on running that debate ATM
[12:56] <jelmer> Pegasus_RPG: hmm, I'm not sure I understand what you're asking in that case
[12:56] <jam> I just noticed 'mgz' saying "wait for the next release", and noticing that it wouldn't actually have the fix
[12:57] <jam> qbzr specifically used to make monthly releases to coincide even with bzr betas.
[12:57] <vila> jam: then you know better than me :)
[12:58] <vila> jam: ask the qbzr maintainers maybe ?
[12:58] <jam> vila: bialix and garyvdm aren't in the channel, mgz made the fix but hasn't responded (is he off today?)
[12:59] <Pegasus_RPG> jelmer: OK... I want to convert an existing static directory on a web server into a bzr repo so I can make a local checkout, work on it, then commit the changes to the live server. How do I do that?
[13:00] <mgz> jam: you're right it's odd, but you do need qbzr trunk currently
[13:00] <Pegasus_RPG> jelmer: So far, I installed bzr locally, straight-copied the static web server files to a local directory, bzr init'ed it, then bzr push --use-existing-dir   to the exising server directory.
[13:00] <jelmer> Pegasus_RPG: ahh
[13:00] <jelmer> Pegasus_RPG: you want to add all the files to the repository - try "bzr add ." followed by "bzr commit"
[13:01] <jelmer> Pegasus_RPG: to upload the files to the remote location, you probably want to use "bzr upload" rather than "bzr push"
[13:02] <jelmer> Pegasus_RPG: ("bzr push" only updates the remote bzr repository, and doesn't update a checkout if it exists there)
[13:02] <Pegasus_RPG> jelmer: ok, so use bzr upload all the time or just the first time?
[13:02] <jelmer> Pegasus_RPG: all the time
[13:03] <Pegasus_RPG> ok. (I still wonder how LaunchPad repos work. There, I can make a local checkout, work on it, then bzr commit and the changes are up on the server for all to soo.)
[13:04] <Pegasus_RPG> jelmer: erm, Bazaar 2.1.2 doesn't know "upload"
[13:04] <vila> Pegasus_RPG: there is no working trees on launchpad
[13:04] <jelmer> Pegasus_RPG: it's a plugin
[13:20] <mgz> initing bzrlib in a script is still a pain
[13:22] <vila> what could make it less painful ?
[13:23] <mgz> not having to know which other random things don't get called in initialize and need to be done seperately
[13:24] <mgz> in this case, I needed commands._register_builtin_commands() and plugin.load_plugins() and commands.install_bzr_command_hooks()
[13:25] <jelmer> mgz: I think we should have a load_plugins=bool argument for bzrlib.intiialize
[13:25] <mgz> vila: do you have a lot of plugins in you base setup?
[13:25] <mgz> jelmer: hooks are also an issue it seems
[13:26] <mgz> vila: can you run lp:~gz/+junk/list_global_options and pastebin the results?
[13:26] <vila> mgz: 28 plugins
[13:27] <mgz> I'm on a minor yak mission.
[13:28] <vila> http://paste.ubuntu.com/738202/
[13:29] <vila> mgz: ^
[13:31] <jelmer> hmm, 48 plugins here..
[13:33] <mgz> do you get anything more running the script jelmer?
[13:35] <jelmer> mgz: Global options used by plugins: ['change', 'directory', 'force', 'merge-type', 'overwrite', 'remember', 'reprocess', 'revision', 'show-ids', 'timezone', 'verbose']
[13:35] <mgz> force and reprocess
[13:35] <mgz> cool, thanks!
[13:36] <jelmer> pipeline uses reprocess
[13:38] <mgz> force is a bit funky, doesn't come with help
[13:38] <mgz> all the bzrlib commands that want --force supply an option so you know what's being forced
[14:52] <GRiD> jam, thanks for analysis on bug 720853
[18:30] <DeafFish> When will the nested tree feature be released?
[18:55] <jelmer> DeafFish: hi
[18:55] <DeafFish> Hi
[18:56] <jelmer> DeafFish: there is some basic support for nested trees in the experimental 'development-subtree' format in current versions of bzr
[18:56] <DeafFish> Ah, ok
[18:56] <jelmer> DeafFish: finishing nested trees and adding support for it to the stable format is on our list of things to work on
[18:57] <DeafFish> Any word on when it will move into stable?
[18:58] <jelmer> DeafFish: not really, sorry
[18:58] <DeafFish> No worries
[18:59] <DeafFish> As of right now it isn't a problem
[19:00] <DeafFish> Thanks!
[19:15] <glyph> hello bzr
[19:15] <glyph> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/890373
[19:16] <glyph> once again Twisted development is thwarted by trying to use bzr :(
[19:21] <jelmer> hi glyph
[19:22] <glyph> hi jelmer
[19:22] <mgz> looks like bug 806348
[19:23] <mgz> though I thought it was one exarkun had already reported
[19:23] <glyph> mgz: we run into it every so often
[19:23] <glyph> at inconvenient times
[19:23] <jelmer> mgz: I've marked it as a dupe
[19:23] <glyph> I can send you my shared repo if that would help
[19:24] <jelmer> now that bzr-svn passes all the main bzr tests I'm pretty sure it no longmer creates revisions with this issue
[19:24] <jelmer> but there are probably still revisions out there in the wild that were created with older versions of bzr-svn
[19:25] <glyph> jelmer: is there a way to fix it?
[19:25] <glyph> jelmer: we have an official bzr mirror, and we're trying to migrate slowly to bzr rather than svn, these periodic disasters notwithstanding
[19:26] <glyph> jelmer: but throwing out our repository and breaking all clients every time we discover a wayward revision is not really an attractive option :-\
[19:29] <mgz> glyph: as with this other things you guys have reported, looks like we just need to fix the bug
[19:31] <glyph> mgz: yes please
[19:33] <jelmer> glyph: there are two things - 1) updating your mirror to have the right representation of those svn revisions (created with bzr-svn 1.1.1) will make sure you don't hit this bug, and 2) bzr should be able to cope with this situation (perhaps warn, because it is after all slightly different metadata) but not fail
[19:33] <glyph> jelmer: oh
[19:33] <glyph> jelmer: looks like I'm still on 1.0.5dev
[19:33] <glyph> jelmer: has 1.1.1 made it into a mac installer yet?
[19:38] <jelmer> glyph: no, it looks like it's a fair few revisions behind
[19:41] <jelmer> doxx isn't around at the moment, I'll submit an MP
[19:56] <jelmer> glyph: submitted an updated for the 2.4 mac installers, hopefully doxx will merge that for the next one
[19:56] <jelmer> back later
[21:13] <glyph> so speaking of things which don't work right
[21:13] <glyph> what's the status of bzr-git?  can one maintain a git mirror of a bzr repository yet?
[21:14] <jelmer> glyph: no, but we're getting there
[21:15] <jdobrien> hi all... a while ago someone was telling me about an alternative to using repo when you have a number of consecutive branches to work on...any help/reminders would be appreciated
[21:15] <jelmer> glyph: bug #544776 is the main bug to track
[21:15] <jelmer> jdobrien: hi
[21:15] <jelmer> jdobrien: colocated branches perhaps?
[21:17] <glyph> jelmer: thanks.  I know it's kinda ridiculous to even ask, but: do you have an ETA?
[21:17] <glyph> (how come launchpad doesn't track effort estimates)
[21:19] <jdobrien> jelmer: that's it :)
[21:26] <jelmer> glyph: so, in its most simple form (maintaining an incremental git mirror of the bzr branch, no merging back into bzr), it apparently already works
[21:27] <jelmer> glyph: somebody is using that to maintain a git mirror of mysql
[21:27] <jelmer> glyph: that said, the format is still experimental and there are still a lot of tests that need fixing - I'm not going to enable this until that happens
[21:28] <glyph> jelmer: I'll just bug Twisted people who want us to move to bzr to start clicking on that bug :)
[21:29] <jelmer> glyph: (I don't really want to end up with bugs similar to bug 806348, but for bzr-git)
[21:30] <jelmer> glyph: it is one of the things I'm working on though, and we have made some big improvements towards bug 544776 in the last few months
[21:36] <glyph> jelmer: is there a way to fix the shared repository with the buggy revisions yet without re-importing it from scratch?
[21:38] <jdobrien> jelmer: if I am starting with an empty directory (not bzr'd) and a project in launchpad and i want to use colo, what do i do? I'm following the tutorial and it's not making sense
[21:48] <jelmer> jdobrien: sorry, I don't actually have any experience with bzr-colo myself
[21:48] <jdobrien> jelmer: ok
[21:50] <jelmer> glyph: re-importing from scratch is the only way I'm aware of. fixing the bzr side of things (not error out so badly, but coping with the inconsistent metadata) would also work around it of course
[22:16] <glyph> jelmer: what about lp:twisted
[22:17] <glyph> jelmer: will that automatically re-run its import at some point?
[23:05] <jelmer> glyph: that's a good point, I'll look into it


[12:13] <Hirvinen> aaa
[12:13] <Hirvinen> Whoops.
[03:00] <azeem> @schedule MST
[03:00] <Ubugtu> Schedule for MST: 12 Apr 05:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 07:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 07:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 14:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 05:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 07:00: Xubuntu
[03:03] <bur[n] er> :)
[01:01] <flint> good morning campers... we have sun but no coffee on this morning in Vermont
[01:05] <ogra> @schedule
[01:05] <Ubugtu> schedule Retrieve the date/time of scheduled meetings in a specific timezone
[01:05] <ogra> @schedule CET
[01:05] <Ubugtu> Schedule for CET: 12 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 16:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 16:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 23:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 16:00: Xubuntu
[01:06] <flint> ogra, Oliver i am early, I am going to make coffee or nap for another bit.
[01:06] <ogra> :)
[01:06] <flint> @schedule
[01:06] <Ubugtu> schedule Retrieve the date/time of scheduled meetings in a specific timezone
[01:06] <ogra> you need to give it your timezone as argument
[01:06] <flint> @schedule EST
[01:07] <ogra> @schedule EST
[01:07] <Ubugtu> Schedule for EST: 12 Apr 07:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 09:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 09:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 16:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 07:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 09:00: Xubuntu
[01:07] <Ubugtu> Schedule for EST: 12 Apr 07:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 09:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 09:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 16:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 07:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 09:00: Xubuntu
[01:07] <ogra> :)
[01:07] <ogra> wow, its early at your place :)
[01:07] <flint> oh yea...
[01:07] <JaneW> flint: I was early too
[01:07] <JaneW> there must be something in the air
[01:07] <JaneW> ogra is the only one fully awake today
[01:08] <flint> JaneW, mornin' darling, it ain't the smell of coffee... the child is healthy?
[01:09] <JaneW> flint: hopefully getting there
[01:09] <JaneW> although I had a serious relapse yesterday
[01:09] <JaneW> the day had started so promisingly...
[01:09] <flint> you all know that I had to get a job... this is taking up an inordinant amount of my spare time... worse than an afliction imho...
[01:10] <flint> JaneW, sorry to hear about the back...
[01:10] <JaneW> flint: does that mean you got a job?
[01:11] <flint> JaneW, my wife does pelates to combat back pain.
[01:11] <JaneW> flint: I fear this is a sign of my increasing age taking it's toll
[01:11] <JaneW> flint: I do yoga
[01:12] <flint> JaneW, I work for a php firm called code4design  took them to LinuxWorld and I am in the process of getting them loaded on IBM zSeries Mainframes...
[01:12] <JaneW> flint: interesting
[01:12] <JaneW> flint: from Vermont?
[01:12] <flint> JaneW, work from my little house in Vermont.  I needed the money...
[01:13] <flint> :^)
[01:13] <flint> JaneW, if i hadn't pissed off the other Jane, I might have been involved with the Montreal mafia, this is a user support job just the same...
[01:14] <JaneW> flint:  yes I imagine she is no longer in your fan club!
[01:15] <flint> JaneW, Not like i was shy and did not try... :^)
[01:15] <ogra> what did you do to her ?
[01:15] <flint> JaneW, it is probably better this way.
[01:15] <JaneW> flint: hey you spoke your mind...
[01:15] <flint> ogra, Ollie when I keep you out of the line of fire, just enjoy your foxhole :^)
[01:15] <JaneW> you may have been smoking crack at the time...
[01:16] <JaneW> but still
[01:16] <flint> JaneW, scratch the surface of me and find an idealist.
[01:16] <JaneW> I need some excitement
[01:16] <flint> lol
[01:17] <flint> JaneW, I do what i can to entertain...
[01:17] <flint> b back soon...
[01:29] <Seveas> JaneW, admit it, you just want to train your whip on innocent Ubuntu users
[01:30] <JaneW> Seveas: damn you foiled my thinly veiled plot!
[01:31] <Seveas> JaneW, look at the banlist in #ubuntu, there are some willing test subjects
[01:31] <JaneW> Seveas: ooh
[01:33] <ajmitch> Seveas: we've always known that
[01:33] <ajmitch> JaneW has been perfectly willing to wield that whip
[01:35] <Hobbsee> hehe
[01:40] <ogra> ajmitch, only if there are willing victims offering themselves :)
[01:42] <ajmitch> like the whole dev team :)
[01:42] <ogra> :)
[01:43] <Hobbsee> i must say, that ubuntu banlist is pretty impressive...
[01:43] <flint> Hobbsee, how does one read the banlist maybe /banlist?
[01:44] <Hobbsee> flint: /mode #ubuntu b
[01:44] <flint> Hobbsee, thanks... wilco
[01:46] <Hobbsee> #kubuntu list is also rather impressive...
[01:57] <JaneW> ajmitch: hey it's not my fault thay are all S&M fetishists
[01:57] <JaneW> but it helps...
[01:58] <ogra> we just didnt know before we met you  ;)
[02:01] <flint> JaneW, we love being obedient to Mistress Jane, and appreciate the punishment...
[02:01] <flint> ...That said let us begin our deliberations... :^)
[02:02] <JaneW> ok who is here?
[02:02] <JaneW> Hobbsee: you are welcome to participate, if you haqve an interest in Edubuntu
[02:02] <JaneW> -q
[02:03] <ogra> absolutely !
[02:03] <JaneW> anyone else here for the edubuntu meeting?
[02:03] <flint> indubidably...(sp?)
[02:03] <JaneW> seems to be the usual guilty suspects
[02:03] <ogra> do we wait 5 mins or do we start ?
[02:03] <JaneW> hi juliux
[02:03] <juliux> hi JaneW
[02:03] <JaneW> I think we should wait 2 mins
[02:03] <ogra> ok
[02:03] <Hobbsee> you cant use the standard "if hobbsee is here, then everyone is, because hobbsee's always the latest" here though...
[02:04] <Hobbsee>  /offtopic
[02:04] <JaneW> ogra: since your 2 min updates are usually the meat that the meeting chews on for most of the rest of the time...
[02:04] <ogra> heh
[02:04] <ogra> i have not much this week ...
[02:04] <flint> JaneW, in elkners defense, the little whiner is likely teaching class, probably on a flight 6 system...
[02:04] <JaneW> highvoltage, you here?
[02:04] <ogra> flint, crazy guy
[02:04] <JaneW> flint: great, so he is actively testing
[02:04] <Hobbsee> JaneW: do you have a meeting agenda, that you'll be using today?
[02:04] <Hobbsee> i'm not terribly familiar with edubuntu, or it's meetings
[02:04] <JaneW> Hobbsee: we have a standard (very loose) format
[02:05] <JaneW> start with tech discussion
[02:05] <JaneW> move to documentation
[02:05] <JaneW> then artowrk
[02:05] <JaneW> artwork even
[02:05] <Hobbsee> ok, cool, thanks
[02:05] <JaneW> then community and other
[02:05] <flint> Hobbsee, note the use of the term "very loose"
[02:05] <ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingRecords#head-5e7f70a61c134d6b4d43164288d5c686da158155
[02:05] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:05] <ogra> Hobbsee, ^^
[02:05] <Hobbsee> thanks very much ogra
[02:06] <JaneW> Hobbsee: sorry my typing is bad :(
[02:06] <JaneW> hi freeflying-ibook
[02:06] <Hobbsee> man!  i like the red of the logo and background!  *considers a red kubuntu*
[02:06] <JaneW> ok let's hit it
[02:06] <freeflying-ibook> JaneW: hi
[02:06] <ogra> so its five minutes after, lets start
[02:06] <JaneW> Hobbsee: yeah our graphics ROCK
[02:06] <Hobbsee> they do!
[02:06] <ogra> Hobbsee, feel free to make kedubuntu :)
[02:07] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:07] <JaneW> ogra: where do we stand on the dev side?
[02:07] <juliux> ogra, lol
[02:07] <ogra> not much happened edubuntu wise on my desk last week ...
[02:07] <ogra> (i was mostly busy with ubuntu bugs)
[02:08] <ogra> i prepared a patch to the installer part of ltsp though, that should let us get rid of the post install editing of the dhcp config
[02:08] <ogra> i also worked on a better progress reporting of the ltsp part in the installer
[02:08] <ogra> additionally i looked over highvoltages edubuntu getting started doc, which i'd like to ship by default in edubuntu-docs
[02:09] <ogra> thats all i did on a tech side ...
[02:09] <JaneW> Does Edubuntu have many bugs?
[02:09] <JaneW> over and above the ubuntu ones?
[02:09] <ogra> a hand full
[02:09] <ogra> (~5) :)
[02:09] <JaneW> sounds good
[02:09] <jsgotangco> :)
[02:09] <JaneW> how serious are they?
[02:10] <ogra> not very
[02:10] <JaneW> and think they will get fixed before the release?
[02:10] <ogra> and mostly they turn out as ubuntu bugs
[02:10] <juliux> what is with the alt +f7 bug?
[02:10] <JaneW> do you think this extra QA time is helping ? In general, and for edubuntu specifically?
[02:10] <ogra> i havent got a bug about that yet
[02:10] <ogra> not really
[02:11] <ogra> edubuntu would be ready so far if we wanted it
[02:11] <juliux> ogra, because we dont know where the bug is in xorg or ltsp or something else
[02:11] <JaneW> things seem much more relaxed and less panicked than last time
[02:11] <ogra> but indeed we build from ubuntu packages that have open bugs
[02:11] <juliux> see the mail from jeff elkner
[02:11] <JaneW> which is nice, but I hope we don't lose momentum and the excitement
[02:11] <juliux> hi mhz
[02:11] <ogra> juliux, i refuse to read *any* mail from jeff that contains the word bug
[02:11] <JaneW> hi mhz
[02:11] <juliux> ogra, ok
[02:12] <mhz> hi there! sorry i am late (agan)
[02:12] <juliux> ogra, i will open a bug against edubuntu
[02:12] <ogra> i told him 100 ties to please file them in LP
[02:12] <flint> ogra, he actually filed a bug report finally Ollie...
[02:12] <JaneW> juliux: thank-you
[02:12] <ogra> flint, against what ?
[02:12] <juliux> ogra, but if you dont know against which package there is a problem
[02:12] <JaneW> unfortunately jelkner is not a good bug filer
[02:12] <ogra> i dont see any bugreport from him
[02:12] <JaneW> but he is a useful tester
[02:12] <jsgotangco> you dont need to know what specific package is to file in rosaetta
[02:13] <JaneW> so if anyone can help to file the bugs he finds that would be very helpful
[02:13] <jsgotangco> you can put it blank
[02:13] <flint> I believe he told me against edubuntu... I will backtrack and verify based upon this.
[02:13] <JaneW> ogra: agreed? ^
[02:13] <ogra> juliux, if in doubt, file it against edubuntu-meta and i'll push it to the right package
[02:13] <juliux> ogra, ok
[02:13] <jsgotangco> a triage team will then direct it accordingly
[02:13] <ogra> 99% of the bugs are ubuntu bugs anyway
[02:13] <JaneW> yes as long as a bug is filed ogra can do something with it, please don;t expect ogra to file all the bugs himself
[02:14] <spacey> hi
[02:14] <spacey> sorry i'm late
[02:14] <JaneW> hi spacey
[02:14] <jsgotangco> can anyone specify the exact bug #
[02:14] <ogra> JaneW, i dont care about filing them myself as long as i dont have to read a several pages big email to find one line at the end that tells me about the bug
[02:14] <JaneW> ogra: fair enough
[02:15] <ogra> ok, so much from the tech side ....
[02:15] <ogra> i have something else ...
[02:15] <JaneW> ok so either file a big or send a concise and clear description of it to ogra (pref with steps to reproduce?)
[02:15] <JaneW> ogra: yes?
[02:15] <ogra> yep
[02:15] <JaneW> big=bug
[02:15] <ogra> malone is always preferred indeed
[02:15] <ogra> https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-members
[02:15] <ogra> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[02:15] <JaneW> yes bug to be filed in MALONE
[02:16] <JaneW> oops sorry
[02:16] <ogra> we have CC powers !!!
[02:16] <JaneW> do that again, I won;t mess it up ;P
[02:16] <mhz> JaneW: is there a EdubuntuHowToFileABug (mini instructions)
[02:16] <ogra> (or something like that)
[02:16] <ogra> mhz, there is HelpingWithBugs that should totally suffice
[02:16] <flint> ogra, nice touch the arrows...
[02:16] <JaneW> mhz: good point but we should pull it from ubuntu, as it's no different
[02:17] <JaneW> ogra: was that decides at last nights CC?
[02:17] <JaneW> decided
[02:17] <mhz> ogra: okis, JaneW, then agree if I make that page and link it to HelpingWithBugs?
[02:17] <ogra> so we have a launchpad team now that enables us to approve members like the CC does
[02:17] <JaneW> mhz: perfect thanks ! :)
[02:17] <flint> ogra, I swear a mighty oath that elkner said he "maloned" the bug he found.  I will get to the bottom of this. I have emailed him just now.
[02:17] <ogra> additionally all members of that team will have @edubuntu.org mailadresses
[02:17] <JaneW> ogra: do we have a clear process for that?
[02:17] <JaneW> w00t!
[02:18] <ogra> i think the usual CC process applies here
[02:18] <jsgotangco> heh another spam bait forwarder lol
[02:18] <ogra> so you need to be a member already or comply to the rules to become a member to join that team
[02:19] <mhz> cool
[02:19] <juliux> ogra, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/edubuntu-meta/+bug/39294 i hope my english isnt to bad
[02:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39294 in edubuntu-meta "No ldm login on the thinclient" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[02:19] <mhz> good marketing/encouraging people feature
[02:19] <ogra> so we'll take the big crowd of edubuntu member applicants from the CC in the future :P
[02:19] <ogra> juliux, thanks !
[02:19] <JaneW> juliux: thanks
[02:20] <JaneW> games of chance are fun! :)
[02:20] <mhz> juliux: your english is not so buggy :D
[02:20] <JaneW> (sorry I was channeling flint for a second)
[02:20] <JaneW> ok artwork
[02:20] <ogra> the question with that team is, how do we want to handle it ?
[02:20] <JaneW> are we any nearer to anything artwork wise?
[02:20] <ogra> we'll need meetings like the CC meeting to review and approve people
[02:20] <JaneW> oops sorry, we still busy with the other topic
[02:21] <flint> JaneW, I do pretty well, considering I am a native speaker... :^)
[02:21] <ogra> JaneW and i both agree that we dont want an additional meeting on our schedule
[02:21] <mhz> ogra: but these Edubuntu Council :D meetings could be held every 3 weeks or every 2 weeks?
[02:21] <JaneW> possibly monthly initially
[02:22] <ogra> so the proposal was to have the meeting we have now on a two week schedule instead of weekly and have a ECC meeting in the new two week gap
[02:22] <JaneW> depends on the volume of discussion
[02:22] <JaneW> is once ever 2 weeks enough for dev meetings?
[02:22] <ogra> i guess monthly would be anough as well
[02:22] <JaneW> esp in a normal dev cycle which is much faster
[02:22] <flint> JaneW, while you may laugh at this discussion of empowerment, I would like to propose to the CC that they set up a certification in edubuntu...
[02:23] <ogra> i think in the beginnig we can start with reviewing people who want to join the team once a month additionally to that meeting without changing the schedule
[02:23] <JaneW> LOL
[02:23] <mhz> flint: but let's 1st finish Ubuntu Certifiaction ;)
[02:23] <JaneW> flint: you are kidding right?
[02:23] <ogra> later we can make them 2 weekly
[02:23] <JaneW> ogra: I agree with that
[02:23] <jsgotangco> flint: that's hardly needed, edubuntu is ubuntu :P
[02:23] <flint> JaneW, no.  mhz separate and distinct from the cannonical ubuntu certification.
[02:23] <ogra> so lets say every first meeting in a month we do our approval
[02:24] <JaneW> ogra: agreed
[02:24] <flint> jsgotangco, no it is very different. ask Olli
[02:24] <JaneW> ogra: it will need to be listed  clearly in an agenda
[02:24] <ogra> yes, we'll need an agenda like CC and TB have
[02:24] <mhz> ogra: +1
[02:24] <JaneW> ogra: so #1 will be the first week of May
[02:24] <ogra> yep
[02:24] <JaneW> +1
[02:25] <JaneW> done, I guess
[02:25] <flint> JaneW, I would propose that membership and certification be based upon contribution.  This would motivate people to get things accomplished (beyond Oliver and yourself)
[02:25] <ogra> yup, done
[02:25] <jsgotangco> ogra: cheater you only look at edubuntu-meta :P
[02:25] <JaneW> flint: you still seem confussed about what certification means
[02:25] <ogra> flint, the same rules apply as they do for ubuntu members
[02:25] <ogra> the process is well documented
[02:26] <JaneW> ogra: we'll need to put something on the wiki
[02:26] <ogra> jsgotangco, ?
[02:26] <ogra> yup
[02:26] <flint> JaneW, cannonical certification is a commercial certificaiton. i am not confused even though I am a bitter old man.
[02:26] <ogra> but we only need to link to the appropriate ubuntu pages
[02:26] <JaneW> flint: it's not an internal qualification
[02:27] <flint> JaneW, the qualification would come from the edubuntu council.
[02:27] <JaneW> and means nothing (or is not nec relevent)here in our community
[02:27] <flint> the community certifies the practictioner.
[02:27] <JaneW> flint: anyway we can discuss that further in the ECC meetings
[02:27] <JaneW> agreed?
[02:27] <flint> done
[02:27] <JaneW> ty
[02:27] <JaneW> ok artwork
[02:27] <mhz> hehehe
[02:27] <JaneW> are we any nearer to anything artwork wise?
[02:28] <JaneW> did anyone manage to get anything out of toxictoadz?
[02:28] <JaneW> I don't think so
[02:28] <JaneW> which means we still don;t have our young/naive background
[02:28] <JaneW> jsgotangco: yes?
[02:28] <jsgotangco> JaneW: do i still get to do the Firefox page?
[02:29] <JaneW> jsgotangco: the about edubuntu page?
[02:29] <jsgotangco> or do we stick to Ubuntu page
[02:29] <ogra> jsgotangco, go go go !
[02:29] <JaneW> yes, I'd say so
[02:29] <jsgotangco> JaneW: that's easy i could whip it up starting tommorow (holidays)
[02:29] <JaneW> or rather any reason why not to do it?
[02:29] <mhz> nomed: hey! welcome!
[02:29] <jsgotangco> JaneW: the Ubuntu FF homepage are now translated
[02:29] <JaneW> I think it's def appropriate to have it
[02:29] <nomed> hi mhz
[02:29] <JaneW> and we can have edubuntu spec stuff and links
[02:29] <flint> welcome nomed
[02:30] <mhz> nomed: we are just starting to discuss about edubuntu artwork
[02:30] <JaneW> jsgotangco: if you can do it please do
[02:30] <Florob> Wouldn't that break doc freeze somehow?
[02:30] <ogra> jsgotangco, as long as we can still use an untranslated version, all is fine
[02:30] <JaneW> I think mhz would be happy to help with translations
[02:30] <jsgotangco> Florob: not at all
[02:30] <ogra> Florob, edubuntu has no doc freeze
[02:30] <JaneW> mhz? ^
[02:30] <ogra> we shoot ourselves in the foot with that
[02:30] <mhz> JaneW: +1
[02:30] <JaneW> wasn;t there a technical constraint with it last time?
[02:30] <ogra> *we'd
[02:30] <Florob> didn't no you're THAT seperate from ubuntu
[02:30] <JaneW> mhz: +10 :)
[02:31] <mhz> JaneW: however, afaik, 'es' is already done. Sure, I can help on edubuntu.es for firefox
[02:31] <ogra> Florob, we arent, but we'll use the extended time to finish up missing docs, that was claer from the beginning
[02:31] <JaneW> mhz: yes for edubuntu.es
[02:31] <highvoltage> sorry, i have a local meeting here and will miss most of this meeting, but will catch up later
[02:31] <ogra> if the docteam wants to restrict itself, its allowed to do that, we wont :)
[02:32] <Florob> ogra, didn't know that, thanks
[02:32] <JaneW> highvoltage: ok, quickly, did you hear from toxictoadz??
[02:32] <ogra> highvoltage, local meetings are overrated
[02:32] <juliux> highvoltage, where is edubuntugirl?
[02:32] <JaneW> ogra: but not attending can be a CLM
[02:32] <mhz> JaneW: okis, I'll follow jsgotangco lead (again)
[02:32] <ogra> heh
[02:32] <JaneW> mhz: super thanks
[02:33] <ogra> juliux, that can wait until after release, we have some release critical things first ;)
[02:33] <JaneW> can we use it as is if we have to?
[02:33] <juliux> hmpf
[02:33] <ogra> why not
[02:33] <JaneW> it is a bit too bright and busy I'll admit, it would be better adjusted
[02:33] <flint> edubuntugirl somebody is making this up...
[02:33] <JaneW> unless someone wants to creat some new and wonderful designs
[02:33] <JaneW> flint: NOT handicapped ducks though
[02:34] <ogra> i'd be fine with using it
[02:34] <ogra> its a bit small though
[02:34] <JaneW> oic
[02:34] <ogra> (1024x786)
[02:34] <flint> JaneW, harsh, very harsh ( god i love that duck! \:^)
[02:34] <ogra> but smalle pics are eating less space :)
[02:34] <JaneW> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/edubuntu/76
[02:35] <JaneW> ogra: is it not resizable?
[02:35] <JaneW> in all it;s glory http://art.ubuntu.com/images/backgrounds/Edubuntu-Children_Of_Edubuntu_1024x768.png
[02:35] <ogra> sure it is, but scaling up looses quality
[02:36] <JaneW> flint: it may make him blind, but jelkner can't complain about lack of diversity there....
[02:36] <mhz> toxi... is TOOO much "in your face"
[02:36] <ogra> having the svg and exporting it at 1600x1200 would be better
[02:36] <JaneW> ok I'll mail the creator again, and see if I can get him to respond
[02:36] <flint> JaneW, I kinda like the "Its A Small World After All" (IASWAA) theme of it.
[02:36] <ogra> jsgotangco, yes, and there is not *one* blue kid among them !!
[02:36] <spacey> thats an awful wallpaper
[02:37] <ogra> spacey, thats fine for the kids theme ... we wont use it by default
[02:37] <JaneW> spacey: get a better one then
[02:37] <JaneW> yes please note this is not for the default install
[02:37] <flint> jsgotangco, everyone is a critic. Ars Gratia Artes...
[02:37] <mhz> ogra: jsgotangco , heheheh
[02:37] <spacey> i have no creative/art talent unfortunately :P
[02:37] <JaneW> it's for the younger look option
[02:38] <ogra> spacey, but you work in a school ... poke your arts teacher ;)
[02:38] <mhz> JaneW: so default will be...?
[02:38] <ogra> mhz, NN
[02:38] <JaneW> spacey: how old are the kids there?
[02:38] <flint> jsgotangco, if we are going to get critical that tree in the back is pretty phalic... :^)
[02:38] <mhz> NN?
[02:38] <JaneW> spacey: are you involved with little kids or older students only?
[02:38] <ogra> not nominated
[02:38] <spacey> ogra: uh 4-16
[02:38] <jsgotangco> flint: hahaha
[02:38] <spacey> primary school
[02:38] <jsgotangco> flint: and bushy
[02:38] <JaneW> spacey: cool, well please can you show the pic to some of them and get some responses and feedback
[02:38] <spacey> with some special education
[02:39] <ogra> spacey, perfect !
[02:39] <JaneW> i.e. do they love or hate it
[02:39] <spacey> JaneW: sure can
[02:39] <JaneW> we need something that appeals to 6-10 year olds
[02:39] <spacey> are there more pics then the happy rainbow one?
[02:39] <flint> I want to take up a collection to get the white kid and the asian girl eyes...
[02:39] <ogra> nope, not yet
[02:39] <JaneW> and crosses gender, culture and language borders etc
[02:39] <ogra> we should probably do a call on the ML
[02:39] <JaneW> spacey: not at the moment, but you can show them our original edubuntu girl too
[02:39] <spacey> i have the feeling there are no artistic souls at the school we use edubuntu
[02:40] <spacey> JaneW: they already know that one
[02:40] <JaneW> this is all we have so far http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/edubuntu/
[02:40] <flint> JaneW, the real question is not whether it will appeal to a bunch of geeks (no offense intended :^) but if this art will appeal to teachers and students...
[02:40] <spacey> i like that one :)
[02:40] <JaneW> we'd welcome more submissions though
[02:40] <jsgotangco> they seem to use macs
[02:41] <JaneW> ok so everyone show artwork to ppl, and get responses and or submissions of better stuff
[02:41] <jsgotangco> what happened to consigned artwork?
[02:41] <spacey> argh art.ubuntu.com doesn't work with lunchpad logins?
[02:41] <JaneW> we don;t want more articles saying 'nice distro, sucky wall paper'
[02:41] <jsgotangco> spacey: aye, we're slimy bastards
[02:42] <JaneW> alhtough to be honest I think edubuntu girl is the strongest part of our identity now, so I stand by that decision still!
[02:42] <JaneW> we will have a professionally designed wallpaper for the default install
[02:42] <JaneW> we haven;t seen it yet
[02:42] <spacey> i like edubuntu girl wallpaper
[02:42] <jsgotangco> JaneW: try the current ubuntu wallpaper heh
[02:43] <spacey> jsgotangco: that one sucks imo :)
[02:43] <jsgotangco> it has a nice jigsaw puzzle
[02:43] <JaneW> jsgotangco: I haven't seen it...
[02:43] <flint> JaneW, I am so glad that art is not my department...
[02:43] <jsgotangco> spacey: you'll have to thank dholbach's brother for that :)
[02:44] <JaneW> and he produced a pencil drawing of him vomiting spectacularly. Clearly that's his current strongest memeory ;)
[02:44] <flint> JaneW, where send a url.
[02:44] <spacey> :>
[02:44] <JaneW> fun
[02:44] <ogra> can we get it as a wallpaper ?
[02:44] <jsgotangco> i approve fully of your son then
[02:45] <JaneW> ok let's see if we can more of an artwork pool to draw from (pun intended)
[02:45] <flint> jsgotangco, got my vote...
[02:45] <JaneW> so if you know anyone creative start nagging them
[02:45] <ogra> JaneW, mailing list :)
[02:45] <JaneW> you can e-mail the stuff to me if you don't want to log into art.u.c....
[02:45] <JaneW> jsgotangco: so is ogra!
[02:45] <JaneW> :P
[02:45] <ogra> haha
[02:46] <JaneW> ok what else?
[02:46] <JaneW> we have a cookbook meeting following this
[02:46] <jsgotangco> yeah don't go to the art.u.c route its too much pain at the moment
[02:47] <JaneW> we could stay here if the flow is good and we are not in the way
[02:47] <JaneW> else it will be in #edubuntu-cookbook
[02:47] <ogra> there is a xubuntu meeting in 1h
[02:47] <JaneW> jsgotangco: I have an admin login on art.u.c afaik, so I can post stuff there, we might as well use it...
[02:47] <mhz> JaneW: sorry I was on phone.. JaneW any of your kids near 6-10 years old?
[02:47] <jsgotangco> JaneW: so do i but approval is a pain
[02:47] <ogra> but i'd really prefer to use a public and logged channel
[02:48] <JaneW> ogra: ok let's stick to #e-cookbook
[02:48] <JaneW> jsgotangco: yes both. 4 and 6
[02:48] <juliux> if somebody wants to come to the linuxtag www.linuxtag.org in wiesbaden/germany, i have 57 onedaytickets for free!
[02:48] <ogra> cant we just do it in #edubuntu ?
[02:48] <JaneW> jsgotangco: so I have testers right here
[02:48] <JaneW> ogra: I suppose, but then we will be in the way of ppl asking support questions
[02:49] <ogra> *doesnt
[02:49] <jsgotangco> linuxtag!
[02:49] <juliux> ogra, sure ? ;)
[02:49] <ogra> JaneW, we can bear that
[02:49] <mhz> JaneW: so, could ask them what things they like to see in a background or something like that? I will ask my kids too (4 and 9)
[02:49] <ogra> juliux, not really :)
[02:49] <JaneW> mhz: yes
[02:49] <mhz> juliux: I do!
[02:49] <flint> mhz, that is a good idea.
[02:50] <ogra> JaneW, i'd just like to be able to look up what we talked about in 3 months
[02:50] <juliux> mhz, you are coming to germany?
[02:50] <JaneW> however my oldest son (of vomit picture) skews the stats
[02:50] <JaneW> I showed him edubuntu-mustard vs edubuntu-girl and he liked the MUSTARD!
[02:50] <ogra> yay!
[02:50] <jsgotangco> lol
[02:50] <JaneW> *shakes head*
[02:50] <jsgotangco> i would like to say your son has...
[02:50] <ogra> mustard for *all* OSes !!!!
[02:50] <jsgotangco> excellent taste?
[02:50] <Seveas> maybe he's just in the i-hate-girls phase
[02:51] <mhz> juliux: nope...sorry, I is just that I'd love to go. Esp. because we are having a big event on June here in chile and would like some to get extra ideas
[02:51] <JaneW> Seveas: you may be right :)
[02:51] <ogra> microsoft mustard, the successor of vista !
[02:51] <jsgotangco> are we continuing here?
[02:52] <ogra> lets make the room free for xubuntu ...
[02:52] <mhz> JaneW: hehehehehe, sure that happens, that is why we need more kids to see. Actually, I can talk to a junior teacher (for 3 to 5 years old kids) about it too. No worry, we'll get to a solution.
[02:52] <JaneW> great thanks
[02:53] <JaneW> ok next week please bring your art projects with you :)
[02:53] <JaneW> anything else?
[02:53] <JaneW> does anyone else want to speak?
[02:53] <jsgotangco> my 4 year old doesn't even see the difference she sees the logo its all ubuntu for her
[02:53] <ogra> juliux seem to have opened the edubuntu marketing team :)
[02:53] <JaneW> else break for coffee for 5 mins
[02:53] <juliux> ogra, if you mean
[02:53] <Florob> While that is not the reason I was hear I have a suggestion (but maybe that's more appropriate for ML or whishlist bug)
[02:53] <ogra> we have a wonderful concept with real prices etc (sorry, german): http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Edubuntu/Konzept
[02:54] <juliux> *grummel*
[02:54] <mhz> JaneW: what if we took pictures of kids at schools. Could we use these pictures for backgrounds?
[02:54] <ogra> (a draft indeed)
[02:54] <ogra> juliux, ?
[02:54] <jsgotangco> wow
[02:54] <Kinnison> mhz: You'd have to get signed waivers from the parents of every kid involved
[02:54] <jsgotangco> an all-in one package
[02:54] <Hobbsee> i'm kind of wishing i was still at school now - school is thinking of making a computer lab of computers with suse on them...
[02:54] <ogra> jsgotangco, yep
[02:54] <juliux> ogra, it isnt ready
[02:54] <jsgotangco> ogra: that's nice...
[02:55] <juliux> in the next days i will do it with old pc as clients
[02:55] <ogra> juliux, but announcing it will help ghetting it in other languages with other local prices ;)
[02:55] <juliux> and with dualcore server
[02:55] <mhz> Kinnison: sure. Maybe we could have a series of pictures of kids of diff ages, so we get diff backgrounds in a series.
[02:55] <juliux> ogra, its ok
[02:55] <ogra> juliux, it would be a nice to have for all common regions :)
[02:55] <mhz> JaneW: what if we made a contest. "send us your class pictures and probaby get backgrounded for edubuntu distro" ?
[02:55] <juliux> ogra, that is a lof of wark
[02:55] <juliux> work
[02:55] <juliux> lot
[02:56] <ogra> so if someone wants to do the same, see juliux' draft
[02:56] <ogra> juliux, i didnt say *you* should do it ;)
[02:56] <juliux> ogra, i know
[02:56] <ogra> ok, coffebrak
[02:56] <ogra> *break
[02:56] <mhz> JaneW: ?
[02:57] <mhz> .oO(she must be getting a coffee and a muffin)
[02:59] <highvoltage> JaneW: no :(
[03:01] <freeflying> ogra: anything relate with CJK need we do ?
[03:01] <freeflying> ogra: in edubuntu
[03:01] <ogra> no idea, i have no feedback at all from CJK users yet
[03:01] <JaneW> I'm back
[03:01] <JaneW> where are we going?
[03:01] <ogra> (no bugs but also no success reports)
[03:02] <freeflying> ogra: how about the difault font in edubuntu
[03:02] <freeflying> s/difault/default
[03:02] <ogra> freeflying, ah, damned i forgot about that, we'll need to change it, it has utf8 issues
[03:03] <ogra> the "normal" fonts are the same as in ubuntu (we cut down the amount of shipped fonts but the defauklt is the same)
[03:03] <ogra> we only differ in the default desktop font
[03:04] <freeflying> ogra: how about use one chinese font, drop out the exist four
[03:05] <JaneW> mhz: nice idea
[03:05] <JaneW> ok cookbook meeting in #edubuntu now
[03:05] <ogra> freeflying, we have <200K free space on the CD would that fit ?
[03:06] <freeflying> ogra: where is the seeds of edubuntu
[03:06] <ogra> same place as the seeds of ubuntu
[03:06] <ogra> in colins home on people.u.c
[03:07] <freeflying> ogra: now only need keep ttf-arphic-uming
[03:07] <freeflying> ogra: you may grop ttf-arphic-ukai out
[03:07] <freeflying> s/grop/drop out
[03:08] <ogra> ok
[03:08] <ogra> that should gain us some space i guess
[03:08] <freeflying> hope will save some space for edubuntu
[03:08] <ogra> yeah :)
[03:23] <bur[n] er> doh, i'm late!
[03:23] <Gloubiboulga> bur[n] er, non non :)
[03:23] <Gloubiboulga> s/non/no/g
[03:24] <bur[n] er> cool, in that case, has anyone else seen the issue where you can't get the gtk theme away from orange... no matter what theme I pick, my titlebar stays orange... i think it happened when i installed kubuntu
[03:24] <bur[n] er> er... i'm referring to xubuntu, not edubuntu
[03:25] <Gloubiboulga> bur[n] er, please report the bug on malone :)
[03:25] <nomed> bur[n] er, $HOME/.gtkrc-2.0 ?
[03:25] <bur[n] er> well, i don't wanna produce a crappy bug report... i'm not sure what causes it]
[03:26] <bur[n] er> nomed: i have that file... i suppose it could be the cause, but gtk isn't b0rked in gnome
[03:26] <nomed> bur[n] er, what's the path of include "?"
[03:27] <bur[n] er> /usr/share/themes/Human/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
[03:27] <bur[n] er> is that my problem you think?
[03:28] <nomed> possible
[03:28] <bur[n] er> this is minor anyway... i wanted to put the idea of changing the xfce icon theme out there since "rodent" is fugly ;)
[03:29] <janimo> hi all
[03:29] <Gloubiboulga> bur[n] er, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XubuntuMeetingAgenda << we'll discuss this :)
[03:29] <nomed> bur[n] er, we'll discuss it in a while :)
[03:29] <janimo> the changing of icon theme from rodent is planned
[03:29] <Gloubiboulga> hi Jani
[03:29] <janimo> shall we start now?
[03:29] <nomed> hi janimo Gloubiboulga
[03:29] <Gloubiboulga> yep
[03:29] <nomed> i'm ready
[03:29] <janimo> ok 1)xarchiver
[03:29] <nomed> ok
[03:29] <janimo> just saw a mail on xfce-devel
[03:30] <janimo> they are heavily rewriting it seems
[03:30] <janimo> I wonder if it will be ready on time
[03:30] <nomed> janimo, yes
[03:30] <nomed> but even improving it
[03:30] <nomed> they'll not use glade file anymore for ex
[03:30] <janimo> any ETA?
[03:30] <Meyer> eheheh
[03:31] <nomed> janimo, now it doesn't depend on "old" upstreamers ..
[03:31] <nomed> well just on them
[03:31] <janimo> "old"?
[03:31] <janimo> what is new now?
[03:31] <nomed> janimo, yes ... there are 2 more
[03:31] <janimo> when do you think we could package it?
[03:31] <nomed> one is fixing the gui
[03:32] <janimo> if they get it ready in a month it may be too late for dapper :(
[03:32] <nomed> janimo, they told me last week ..
[03:32] <nomed> janimo, i know
[03:32] <janimo> I'd have prefrerred a fixed 0.3.x release
[03:32] <nomed> i'm waitin an answer from upstreamer
[03:32] <janimo> so we can package/review/main/CD
[03:32] <nomed> janimo, me too
[03:32] <janimo> I think I'll upload 0.3.9 you packaged last time
[03:33] <janimo> so we go in parallel with reviewing
[03:33] <nomed> as soon as they'll answer i'll send a mail to xubuntu-devel
[03:33] <janimo> or do they rewrite it all?
[03:33] <janimo> ok thanks
[03:33] <nomed> janimo, that would be the best i guess
[03:33] <janimo> what they seem to be doing now is optimising
[03:33] <janimo> xarchiver already seemed pretty fast and useful
[03:33] <nomed> yes
[03:34] <janimo> ok 2)icon theme
[03:34] <janimo> any news from tango artists?
[03:34] <janimo> tango is now in main we could just make that default and be done
[03:34] <nomed> janimo, he's working on some icons
[03:35] <nomed> janimo, i think we can have a complete xubuntu-tango icons theme
[03:35] <bur[n] er> i'm all for tango as the default :)  it was the compelling reason to be here this morning
[03:35] <janimo> nomed, ETA?
[03:35] <nomed> but as i'm not the one workin on it ... i can just report what he told me
[03:35] <janimo> yes, but we should know how to plan as we are getting short on time
[03:35] <nomed> janimo, "soon"
[03:36] <nomed> janimo, i know
[03:36] <janimo> most changes going into xubuntu are getting as restricted as the rest if we want a quality release
[03:36] <nomed> but we can't do anything more then wait
[03:36] <janimo> that's what canonical wants too, so we cannot keep on adding features sadly :)
[03:36] <nomed> and use ROdent in case it'll not be ready
[03:37] <bur[n] er> even tango-icon-theme package as it stands now is better than rodent
[03:37] <janimo> nomed, well I'll add tango to default install anyway
[03:37] <janimo> nomed, defaut tangoi is surely better no than rodent?
[03:37] <nomed> yes
[03:37] <janimo> so I'll add that
[03:37] <nomed> janimo, what i'll do is to create links to missing icon names
[03:37] <nomed> in case new icons will not be ready ..
[03:38] <nomed> i checked it and most of the icons are already there
[03:38] <janimo> do you know of icons in tango-icon-theme which are missing for xfce?
[03:38] <nomed> if you do not consider xfce4-terminal pref icons for ex
[03:38] <janimo> is that not app specific?
[03:39] <janimo> as long as we have a consistent and complete icon theme I'm content
[03:39] <nomed> http://foo-projects.org/~jasper/ICONTHEMES
[03:39] <nomed> janimo, mainly it's just a problem of creating links to existing icons ..
[03:39] <nomed> as most of them have just different names
[03:40] <nomed> if not all ..
[03:40] <janimo> ok
[03:40] <janimo> do we need to create this is the tango icon package?
[03:40] <janimo> taking it up with upstream tango?
[03:40] <janimo> or solved within xfce somehow?
[03:41] <nomed> janimo, two ways
[03:41] <janimo> the icons I noticed missing are suspend hibernate
[03:41] <nomed> 1) send patches to upstreamers ..  as
[03:41] <nomed> icons and missing icon-naming entry in the "spec"
[03:42] <nomed> 2) have the xubuntu icons theme including just those icons
[03:42] <nomed> janimo, i'll ask to lapo
[03:42] <nomed> and i'll try to get him here for next meeting
[03:42] <janimo> 2) should matter for upstream xfce I guess
[03:43] <janimo> so for 1) there are icon names in xfce which may have to get into the naming spec right?
[03:43] <nomed> it would be better yes
[03:43] <nomed> but not needed
[03:44] <nomed> janimo, i would just be able to use inkscape
[03:44] <nomed> really
[03:44] <nomed> :)
[03:44] <janimo> do you think it's hard to convince tango upstream?
[03:44] <janimo> or why do we have to consider our own package?
[03:44] <nomed> janimo, well ...
[03:45] <nomed> better to consider our own
[03:45] <janimo> xfce upstreams position should matter on this, I am not clear about it
[03:45] <nomed> and see if it'll be possible to include them in tango if posible
[03:46] <nomed> janimo, benny told me he would be happy to have xfce icons included in those specs
[03:46] <nomed> but there are too much variables here
[03:46] <nomed> xfce upsrteamer ..
[03:46] <nomed> tango and spec upstreamer
[03:46] <nomed> xubuntu artist
[03:46] <janimo> we should not be a variable here, just use best of what upstreams agreed upon
[03:47] <nomed> at this stage we should take care of xubuntu-icons
[03:47] <janimo> xubuntu artist should do additional not replacement  work
[03:47] <nomed> yes
[03:47] <janimo> well but if they are not ready we cannot do that :)
[03:48] <nomed> janimo, the additional work could be then included into official releases ..
[03:48] <nomed> of spec and icons
[03:48] <nomed> as the artist is involved in tango proj
[03:48] <janimo> yes, that's what I am saying, but included so we can use it. not after we include it
[03:48] <janimo> which icons are we missing do you have a list?
[03:49] <janimo> that link above?
[03:49] <nomed> that's one link yes
[03:49] <nomed> and here the one other ..
[03:49] <nomed> http://www.dsslive.org/mediawiki/index.php/Roadmap-0.3-1:XfceTheme
[03:50] <nomed> janimo, mainly there are those two you told
[03:50] <janimo> suspend/hibernate?
[03:51] <nomed> yes
[03:51] <nomed> and one icon for the pager
[03:51] <nomed> and taskbar too if i'm not wrong
[03:51] <janimo> we won't make a new icon package just for 3 icons?! :)
[03:51] <nomed> janimo, no that's sure :)
[03:51] <janimo> panel plugin icons?
[03:51] <nomed> janimo, yep
[03:52] <Gloubiboulga> there's a lot of missing icons for the plugins
[03:52] <janimo> suspend/hibernate will probably be local to xfce4-session since the other icons in the dialog are there so that's checked
[03:52] <nomed> but from what i've understood those icons are needed even for other DMs
[03:52] <nomed> Gloubiboulga, yep ..
[03:52] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: yes, or more likely their desktop file does not reference them
[03:52] <janimo> susp/hib is not in the spec now so it definitely post dapper anyway
[03:52] <nomed> but taskbar and pager could be considered as general DMs icons
[03:52] <nomed> more then apps icons
[03:53] <janimo> app specific ones we solve in apps
[03:53] <janimo> nomed, where do taskbar and pager need to show up? so I can check what we are missing now
[03:53] <janimo> jsgotangco: this is not edubuntu :)
[03:54] <janimo> you have to wiggle your mouse tail
[03:54] <jsgotangco> heh just one quick Q
[03:54] <janimo> to conform to _our_ logo :)
[03:54] <jsgotangco> janimo: are you still going to derive gnome-app-install?
[03:54] <nomed> janimo, i'm refering to icons that are in Settings manager
[03:54] <janimo> jsgotangco: if someone gets to do it maybe
[03:54] <janimo> are you pro or con?
[03:54] <nomed> janimo, those icons are hardcoded somehow ...
[03:54] <jsgotangco> janimo: ok if its get done, ping me up i'll update the help files
[03:54] <nomed> we'll need to patch it i guess ..
[03:54] <janimo> nomed, oh yes those need fixing
[03:55] <janimo> jsgotangco: you need it for documenting it?
[03:55] <nomed> they use just icons from hicolor theme
[03:55] <nomed> if i'm not wrong
[03:55] <jsgotangco> janimo: change strings too if needed
[03:55] <janimo> jsgotangco: ok then. I'll see to it.it should be easier to do than update-manager
[03:56] <janimo> jsgotangco: thanks
[03:56] <jsgotangco> oh yeah
[03:56] <jsgotangco> janimo: its the start of the holidays so plenty of time to look into such
[03:56] <janimo> :)
[03:56] <jsgotangco> on my side
[03:57] <janimo> nomed, those icons in settings manager need to be bugs against that package upstream if they do not work
[03:57] <janimo> so they make fallback for them or correct the paths
[03:57] <janimo> I noticed preferred apps does not have icon here
[03:57] <freeflying> sorry , who is incharge of xubuntu's seed
[03:57] <janimo> freeflying: me
[03:58] <freeflying> janimo: do you hae anyproblem with cd space ?
[03:58] <janimo> yes, too much free space
[03:58] <janimo> :)
[03:58] <freeflying> s/hae/have
[03:58] <nomed> janimo, it's because that icons ahs been removed from tango icon theme ..
[03:58] <nomed> if you're using it
[03:58] <freeflying> janimo: then , okey
[03:58] <nomed> benny is the only one using the spec
[03:58] <janimo> nomed, recently?
[03:58] <nomed> not really
[03:58] <janimo> freeflying: what do you want to suggest for the CD?
[03:59] <nomed> but that icon exists .. we'll need just to add it again ..
[03:59] <freeflying> janimo: I worried about the space firstly , now It's okey
[03:59] <janimo> nomed, they must have had a reason to remove it?
[03:59] <nomed> janimo, sure .. but i do not know
[03:59] <janimo> freeflying: we're at 435M out of 650-700 so we're doing well
[04:00] <janimo> will probably add more stuff
[04:00] <nomed> it was the package-manager icon
[04:00] <janimo> nomed, is that icon present in rodent?
[04:00] <freeflying> janimo: then add language-pack for zh_CN :)
[04:00] <nomed> janimo, i do not think
[04:01] <nomed> it was in the old spec
[04:01] <janimo> freeflying: sure. We'll add many language packs, right now is whatever I merged from ubuntu seeds.
[04:01] <janimo> Do ubuntu not ship zh_CN on CD?
[04:01] <freeflying> janimo: not support-pack
[04:01] <janimo> freeflying: do chinese users need OOo too ?
[04:02] <nomed> janimo, are u sure it's not in exo pkge ?
[04:02] <freeflying> janimo: ya,
[04:02] <freeflying> janimo: you wanna use OOo in xubuntu ?
[04:02] <janimo> nomed, did not look
[04:02] <nomed> http://svn.xfce.org/svn/xfce/libexo/trunk/icons/48x48/preferences-desktop-default-applications.png
[04:02] <nomed> janimo, yes it is
[04:03] <nomed> malone ? :)
[04:03] <nomed> it was just a concidence :)
[04:03] <janimo> nomed, so why does setting dialog not pick it up?
[04:04] <janimo> freeflying: not installing OO by default, but since there is space on the CD it will probably be shipped.
[04:04] <freeflying> janimo: why not goffice
[04:04] <nomed> janimo, i think you forgot to install it
[04:04] <janimo> since I understood that it's the only office that has decent asian langiage support
[04:05] <janimo> nomed, oh in that case cool I'll fix it
[04:05] <janimo> :)
[04:05] <nomed> ehehe
[04:05] <janimo> freeflying: we install abiword by default
[04:05] <janimo> and hopefully gnumeric too soon
[04:06] <janimo> but I understood they do not handle well at least the Indian languages
[04:06] <freeflying> janimo: if I decide , I will use koffice , :) ,but it's xubuntu
[04:06] <freeflying> janimo: same for Chinese
[04:07] <janimo> freeflying: so we install goffice because it's small and probably ship OOo just in case
[04:08] <janimo> nomed, so the conclusion is: add tango to xubuntu default now
[04:09] <janimo> keep in touch with tango artist
[04:09] <nomed> janimo, i'll do that
[04:09] <janimo> ok, thanks
[04:09] <nomed> but i'n not the one that can use inkscape ...
[04:09] <janimo> I wonder if xfce upstream devs seem to use tango why do they still keep rodent as default in release
[04:09] <nomed> i can't promise anything ...
[04:10] <nomed> even if i feel i can trust that guy
[04:10] <janimo> nomed, why do you need to use inkscape? :)
[04:10] <nomed> janimo, to tell you ... we'll have tango complete and ready for xubuntu
[04:10] <nomed> :)
[04:10] <nomed> but i can't
[04:10] <janimo> ah, np
[04:10] <janimo> I think we will have it complete but maybe not too shiny
[04:11] <janimo> tango-icon-them + fixes in our apps shoukld be enough
[04:11] <nomed> yep .. i think so
[04:11] <bur[n] er> == leaps and bounds better than rodent ;)
[04:11] <janimo> we just have to avoid missing/broken incons
[04:11] <janimo> I prefer the gnome/human icon theme I think :)
[04:11] <janimo> at least for the showdesktop icon
[04:12] <janimo> that;s the only one I am sure changes between themes :)
[04:12] <janimo> the others I do not always notice
[04:12] <janimo> ok 3) color theme poll
[04:12] <nomed> ohhh ...
[04:12] <janimo> seems like blue is ok after all
[04:12] <nomed> this stuff is driving me crazy
[04:12] <nomed> janimo, yep
[04:12] <janimo> nomed ?
[04:12] <nomed> +1 for me
[04:13] <nomed> janimo, it needs to be better organized
[04:13] <janimo> since nobody came forward with green or steel
[04:13] <janimo> otr anything else
[04:13] <janimo> nomed, one page per colour theme in the wiki
[04:13] <janimo> do you think something more elaborate?
[04:13] <janimo> hi luzi
[04:13] <luzi> hi guys! just finished class...
[04:14] <nomed> hi luzi
[04:14] <nomed> janimo, if we'll have a pool
[04:14] <nomed> we can't have wiki pages showing same stuff
[04:14] <nomed> i mean
[04:15] <janimo> poll would just link to the pages
[04:15] <nomed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuLook
[04:15] <nomed> luzi, has been the first one to add stuff :)
[04:15] <janimo> oh so steel has proponents
[04:15] <janimo> good
[04:15] <nomed>    DapperXubuntLookProposalGray <-- here
[04:16] <nomed> if each person will have his own page i guess it could be a caos
[04:16] <janimo> looks nice
[04:16] <nomed> in case there will be many ..
[04:16] <janimo> not for each person, but for each theme
[04:16] <nomed> luzi, me too
[04:16] <nomed> i like that very much
[04:16] <janimo> if more people want steel they have to subpoll among themselves which to put forward
[04:16] <janimo> I like it too
[04:16] <nomed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuColorScheme
[04:16] <nomed> here is what i proposed
[04:16] <janimo> luzi, that's enough detail I think since it gives an idea
[04:17] <nomed> i mean just the layout
[04:17] <janimo> nomed, that's good too but the attachments do not show
[04:17] <nomed> it 's important to have svgs too
[04:17] <nomed> janimo, yes .. there aren't :)
[04:17] <janimo> but svg or not is the same when looking at it
[04:17] <nomed> you have to upload them
[04:17] <janimo> we just want to see how they'd look
[04:17] <janimo> ah ok
[04:18] <janimo> ah ok, so this starting page and then link to the detailed pages as the steel one
[04:18] <janimo> seems ok to me
[04:18] <luzi> so when are we going to have the vote?
[04:18] <janimo> nomed, would you announce this on the list?
[04:19] <nomed> janimo, i did it already
[04:19] <janimo> luzi, we should decide now when to vote
[04:19] <nomed> but i guess it 's better if you do that :D
[04:19] <janimo> nomed, ok not read it yet
[04:19] <janimo> so let's give a few days for people to propose themes
[04:19] <janimo> then have a voting for a few days
[04:19] <nomed> janimo, one i wouldn't be heavy ...
[04:20] <nomed> but ..
[04:20] <janimo> heavy?
[04:20] <nomed> we need at least one svg image of the logo
[04:20] <nomed> so people can work on the same
[04:20] <janimo> nomed, I see
[04:20] <janimo> do we not have the original mouse in SVG?
[04:20] <nomed> janimo, here is the point
[04:20] <nomed> no
[04:20] <luzi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XubuntuArtwork?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=xubuntu_logo.svgz
[04:20] <janimo> although I think a png can be modified just as fine
[04:20] <nomed> does it work for you ?
[04:21] <nomed> janimo, umm
[04:21] <janimo> broken link here
[04:21] <nomed> let's say or gimp image or svg
[04:21] <janimo> it's gzipped probbaly that;s why
[04:21] <janimo> nomed, I am fine with any
[04:22] <luzi> firefox tries to display it as xml, that's why. just save to file.
[04:22] <janimo> I assumed people who know these tools can work with anything
[04:22] <janimo> especially if it's only colour changes not anything more elaborate
[04:22] <janimo> luzi, what image is the steel logo based on?
[04:23] <janimo> svg?
[04:23] <janimo> gray I mean
[04:23] <luzi> the link i just gave
[04:23] <nomed> luzi, thanks now i got it
[04:23] <janimo> ok
[04:23] <janimo> there's also an usplash needed
[04:23] <nomed> luzi, could you attach it to that page
[04:23] <nomed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuColorScheme
[04:24] <janimo> it would be better imho if all colour variants used the same images otherwise
[04:24] <janimo> so the difference is not in other elements
[04:24] <janimo> how does that sound?
[04:24] <janimo> it may be that some things only 'work' with some colours I don;t know
[04:24] <nomed> janimo, sure
[04:24] <nomed> that's the way in my opinion
[04:25] <luzi> fine with me
[04:25] <nomed> to use same "patterns" and hex colors
[04:25] <janimo> anyway later on with wallpapers people have more freedom
[04:25] <janimo> we need to see how the logo/usplash/gdm theme looks
[04:25] <janimo> luzi, so with an usplash that entry could be complete
[04:26] <luzi> i'll try to get a usplash for "gray" done
[04:26] <janimo> luzi, thanks
[04:26] <nomed> i liked luzi colors since the beginning
[04:26] <nomed> i could already vote for it i guess
[04:26] <janimo> OT: btw does anyone else remember if in xfce 4.2 you could change kb shortcuts
[04:26] <janimo> now they are greyed out
[04:26] <luzi> they are not really my colors, i took them from the xfce.org page
[04:27] <janimo> I asked on xfce-dev but no answer yet
[04:27] <nomed> janimo, yes you could
[04:27] <janimo> nomed, and now it does not work right?
[04:27] <nomed> modify the default and save it with a different name
[04:27] <nomed> janimo, there was a discussion about this
[04:27] <janimo> nomed, but in 4.2 it used to be easier
[04:27] <janimo> nomed, oh on the list?
[04:27] <nomed> yes
[04:27] <nomed> xfce-dev
[04:27] <janimo> hmm I must have missed it
[04:27] <nomed> they decided to use a different approach
[04:28] <nomed> but i do not like that much how it is now
[04:28] <janimo> do you have some pointers (time period, subhect)
[04:29] <janimo> nomed, we will vote in LP officially even if you know you choose the gray :)
[04:29] <nomed> ehehe
[04:30] <nomed> Shortcut plugin 4.4
[04:30] <nomed> Subj ...
[04:30] <janimo> nomed, ok thanks
[04:30] <nomed> if that's what you meant
[04:30] <janimo> jsgotangco: is about ubuntu final now in doc svn?
[04:31] <janimo> I saw today browser-startpage got removed/renamed
[04:32] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, I have to go, is there something else we should discuss?
[04:32] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: no
[04:32] <Gloubiboulga> ok
[04:32] <janimo> see you later, bye
[04:32] <nomed> bye Gloubiboulga
[04:32] <jsgotangco> janimo: yes its already in rosetta
[04:32] <Gloubiboulga> I'll be back monday...
[04:32] <Gloubiboulga> cu
[04:33] <jsgotangco> jsgotangco: i could fork it and create something for xubuntu if you want to
[04:33] <janimo> luzi, xubuntu about should be close to ready for rosetta right?
[04:33] <janimo> jsgotangco: thanks
[04:33] <jsgotangco> ahh someone alreayd doing it
[04:33] <janimo> jsgotangco: I think luzi has something alreday based on that
[04:33] <jsgotangco> cheers
[04:33] <janimo> ok, anything else?
[04:34] <luzi> i didn't do anything to the browser-startpage. i think it could use a few changes.
[04:35] <janimo> luzi, I saw that was renamed in ubuntu to about-ubuntu I think
[04:36] <janimo> luzi, yes it;s the original doc written when a guide was not planned. it's there since breezy
[04:36] <nomed> any idea for xubuntu.org ?
[04:36] <luzi> ok, have to check about-ubuntu when i get home
[04:37] <nomed> and it would be nice to be here too
[04:37] <nomed> http://art.ubuntu.com/ ..
[04:37] <janimo> luzi, thanks
[04:37] <janimo> nomed, good point I was about to bring that up
[04:37] <janimo> we need someone to make the page
[04:37] <janimo> anything minimal but decent
[04:38] <nomed> janimo, should it be just a css hack ?
[04:38] <janimo> and get the webmaster access to the canonical server which hosts it
[04:38] <janimo> nomed, quite possibly I am very clueless wrt web authoring
[04:38] <janimo> s/wrt/also wrt/ ;)
[04:39] <janimo> nomed, I think a plone skin is what they say
[04:39] <janimo> I see kubuntu and edubuntu have quite an identity
[04:39] <janimo> we could but later on
[04:39] <janimo> it would b great if for beta (20 Apr) we had xubuntu.org pointing to something similar to the firefox startpage at leats
[04:40] <nomed> janimo, it looks just a modified css ..
[04:40] <janimo> with links on the side to the other ubuntus
[04:40] <nomed> but bhoo
[04:41] <nomed> we should ask to the person who made k|edu|ubuntu
[04:41] <janimo> wow for art.ubuntu.com
[04:41] <nomed> i see sometimes they show same pages
[04:41] <janimo> well, anything that is not ugly and has xubuntu info on the front page would do for now
[04:42] <janimo> I'll inquire canonical people to see who could upload the material once we have it
[04:42] <nomed> janimo, it would be better to have first of all the template
[04:43] <janimo> nomed, do you have time/interest in this?
[04:43] <nomed> but mainly a person that could work on it :/
[04:43] <janimo> I guess  not :)
[04:43] <nomed> janimo, not in this period
[04:43] <janimo> understandable
[04:44] <luzi> if it's just a CSS, it would be easy
[04:44] <nomed> luzi, i guess it'll be
[04:44] <nomed> luzi, check edubuntu and kubuntu
[04:44] <nomed> edubuntu has something more ...
[04:45] <nomed> but the template seems the same
[04:45] <janimo> nomed, in the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuColorScheme page
[04:45] <janimo> do you have alink to the specific big page for each entry>
[04:45] <janimo> ?
[04:45] <Riddell> luzi: it's not
[04:45] <janimo> that'd be easier than those attachements
[04:46] <nomed> janimo, view ?
[04:46] <Riddell> it's an html file with a debian alternatives setting
[04:46] <luzi> Riddell, how would we go about to make our own? where to get information?
[04:46] <janimo> nomed, that;s only the wallpaper, I thought about the whole 'gray' entry page
[04:47] <nomed> janimo, no but you have all the stuff linked in that table row
[04:47] <nomed> it's the same ..
[04:47] <Riddell> luzi: just look at the pre and post install scripts in kubuntu-docs and do something similar in the appropriate xubuntu package
[04:47] <janimo> nomed, I see. but more click :)
[04:47] <nomed> well yes
[04:47] <janimo> Riddell: talking about the website not the firefox about page :)
[04:47] <nomed> but less pages
[04:47] <janimo> for xubuntu.org
[04:48] <nomed> anyway .. i'll add a link to [Luzi]
[04:48] <janimo> thanks
[04:50] <nomed> janimo, check that page now
[04:50] <janimo> nomed good ;)
[04:52] <nomed> ok
[04:53] <nomed> what i'll do is to send an email as soon as i'll have more infos about xarchiver
[04:53] <luzi> janimo, did you see the message on xfce mailing list about people feeling uncomfortable that Xubuntu packages Xfce stuff that is not released yet?
[04:53] <nomed> and maybe tomorrow i'll start a page to show the needed icons ...
[04:53] <janimo> luzi, that;s not people generally , that's the grumpiest xfce dev
[04:53] <nomed> luzi, i've seen it ... and ..
[04:54] <nomed> that's what i was going to say :)
[04:54] <janimo> so I only worry about bugs we may have not the 4.3 tag on it
[04:54] <luzi> ok
[04:54] <janimo> he seems like a good guy but sometimes just behaves like that
[04:55] <janimo> nomed, ok wrt xarchiver
[04:55] <janimo> wow, bling on LP
[04:55] <janimo> new menus
[04:56] <nomed> janimo, well .. i've never seen an email by him saying .. "i'm sorry but ..." :)
[04:56] <janimo> nomed, deep inside everybody is a good guy/gal
[04:56] <janimo> :)
[04:56] <janimo> just does not show it
[04:56] <janimo> wlel maybe there are a few exceptions ;)
[04:56] <nomed> eheheh
[04:57] <nomed> ohhh launchpad now has an aqua theme :)
[04:57] <nomed> really nice anyway
[04:57] <jsgotangco> janimo: epiphany doesn't like it though
[04:58] <janimo> jsgotangco: does not like what?
[04:58] <jsgotangco> the new menu bling
[04:58] <jsgotangco> it extends to the whole width of the browser in epi
[05:01] <nomed> janimo, last question ...
[05:01] <janimo> aha
[05:01] <janimo> mgalvin: hello
[05:01] <nomed> why wouldn't you move gdm theme to xubuntu-artwork ?
[05:01] <janimo> thanks for the doc
[05:01] <janimo> nomed, I am willing to , it just not up in the TODO
[05:02] <janimo> now that ivman is not in by default default settings have less reason to live
[05:02] <nomed> yep
[05:02] <mgalvin> janimo: hi
[05:02] <janimo> mgalvin, answered your mail
[05:02] <janimo> mgalvin: we surely want and will to help out with that
[05:03] <janimo> Matt is writing a xubuntu intro as he has for ubuntu flights
[05:03] <mgalvin> janimo: great! thanks! :)
[05:04] <janimo> luzi, it probably has things in common with the desktop guide
[05:04] <janimo> you're both in the doc team, can collaborate :)
[05:04] <janimo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XubuntuDapperBeta
[05:04] <mgalvin> i am going to try and make sure all the officially supported derivs have a beta tour and all future tours as well
[05:05] <janimo> mgalvin: nice
[05:05] <mgalvin> cool i will talk with luzi about it more
[05:05] <mgalvin> i will mail the list in a bit about it too
[05:05] <janimo> mgalvin: is the tour supposed to have a bird's eye view of the stuff or more task oriented?
[05:05] <luzi> ok, looks nice!
[05:05] <janimo> I guess the latter is for the guide
[05:06] <jsgotangco> janimo: tours are much nicer if it has user benefits instead of features
[05:06] <mgalvin> birds eye mostly but i do not strictly adhear to that...
[05:06] <mgalvin> anything very notable
[05:06] <mgalvin> but mostly birds eye of the desktops
[05:06] <jsgotangco> mgalvin: yeah like a mouse running on a spinning logo
[05:06] <janimo> ;)
[05:06] <mgalvin> :)
[05:07] <janimo> xfce 4.4beta1 is due next week hopefull
[05:07] <janimo> y
[05:07] <janimo> their announcement may have some notable things which can be borrowed
[05:07] <janimo> for other non-xfce stuff, hmm
[05:07] <mgalvin> cool, i will keep an eye out for it, maybe i will just subscribe to their lists later
[05:08] <janimo> goffice probably
[05:08] <janimo> mgalvin: I can send you a link unless you areinterested in duscussion there
[05:08] <janimo> when it is out I mean, no need to subscribe just for that
[05:09] <mgalvin> if you can send me a link that would be best
[05:10] <janimo> mgalvin: ok
[05:21] <luzi> is the meeting over?
[10:11] <Ju> Hi all !
[10:13] <Ju> Does anyone have a contact for http://behindubuntu.org/ ? Project interview fr/de have an interview of Jane Silberg
[10:25] <Ju> ok, it's sealne....


[18:53] <Unit193> yano: You breakig wx stuff? :P
[18:53] <yano> Unit193: not really :p
[18:53] <yano> Unit193: just adding a matrix.org bridge :p
[18:54] <Unit193> Looked like that, yep.  Unfortunate.
[18:59] <yano> heh, ikr?
[18:59] <yano> i'm not a big fan of matrix.org but i just wanna test it out to see what all the hoopla is about
[19:12] <Unit193> Understandable, tell me when you find out! :P
[19:14] <yano> lol :p
[19:15] <yano> looks like the IRC bridge is wonky?


[06:35] <Kalidarn> there was an ssh update recently wasn't there?
[06:37] <Kalidarn> for some strange reason I cannot ssh into any of my cisco routers anymore with the ssh client on ubuntu
[06:37] <Kalidarn> after this update: openssh-client:    amd64 (6.6p1-1, 6.6p1-2)
[06:37] <Kalidarn> works with putty but i get connection refused with regular openssh
[06:40] <Kalidarn> i've narrowed it that it must be the ssh client, because it works from other machines, and works from the same machine if i use putty
[06:40] <Kalidarn> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7211115/
[06:40] <Kalidarn> and i know it used to work until very recently.
[06:42] <Kalidarn> seems to shut straight after debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_GROUP
[06:43] <Kalidarn> where as on my other machine this happens
[06:43] <Kalidarn> debug2: dh_gen_key: priv key bits set: 143/256
[06:43] <Kalidarn> debug2: bits set: 512/1024
[06:43] <Kalidarn> debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_INIT sent
[06:43] <Kalidarn> debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_REPLY
[06:43] <slangasek> Kalidarn: "connection refused" is pretty definitively not a bug in the ssh client
[06:44] <Kalidarn> yeah but if it's because some sort of feature is unavailable that it wants maybe the remote host is refusing
[06:44] <slangasek> and the only difference between 6.6p1-1 and 6.6p1-2 was a server configuration change
[06:44] <Kalidarn> doesn't explain why it works on exactly the same machine with putty instead :P
[06:44] <slangasek> no, you said "connection refused".  "Connection refused" means a failure at the tcp level
[06:44] <Kalidarn> which means it's not an ACL
[06:45] <Kalidarn> also ssh to other things work
[06:45] <Kalidarn> eg ssh into a freebsd or linux server
[06:46] <slangasek> well, I don't know why you're having problems, but it's not related to the upgrade from 6.6p1-1 to 6.6p1-2
[06:46] <Kalidarn> hmm.
[06:46] <Kalidarn> and initially i would have agreed and thought sure could be tcp issue something blocking it
[06:46] <Kalidarn> but that does not explain why it works with putty on exactly the same system
[06:46] <Kalidarn> to the same remote host
[06:47] <slangasek> anyway, your pastebin shows it's not actually getting connection refused; it is getting past the initial negotiation, then the server is hanging up
[06:47] <Kalidarn> yes which is why i'm rather confused
[06:47] <Kalidarn> doesn't seem to like me connecting with openssh
[06:47] <Kalidarn> from this machine
[06:47] <Kalidarn> works with 6.2p2 from the mac
[06:47] <slangasek> if it worked with 6.6p1-1, then something's changed on your server
[06:47] <slangasek> and you'll need to debug it there
[06:48] <Kalidarn> i reloaded the configuration file so nothign has changed there
[06:48] <Kalidarn> so nothing has changed there
[06:48] <slangasek> you can always try downgrading the client using the links on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssh/+publishinghistory to verify the last version of the client (if any) that works
[06:49] <Kalidarn> i only seem to recall it being an issue today
[06:49] <Kalidarn> i have a trusty vm so ill try it in that
[06:49] <Kalidarn> (the downgrade) that is
[06:49] <slangasek> the diff between 6.6p1-1 and 6.6p1-2 is absolutely trivial and unrelated, so if downgrading that fixes it, then we're looking at a miscompilation somewhere
[06:49] <Kalidarn> that's what i'm starting to think
[06:49] <Kalidarn> cos a network related issue makes no sense if it works in putty
[06:50] <Kalidarn> my originating address would be exactly the same
[06:50] <Kalidarn> that cisco router does have an ACL that only allows certain local IP addresses to connect (but my local IP has not changed)
[06:50] <Kalidarn> and as i said I ruled that out by using a different client
[06:51] <Kalidarn> is there any way of grabbing the older deb file from that page slangasek?
[06:51] <slangasek> yes, you browse the links to the version you want to download
[06:53] <Kalidarn> ah here we are.
[06:56] <Kalidarn> okay so as to be expected that made no difference.e
[06:56] <Kalidarn> although it is quite well possible i have not tried since installing trusty
[06:57]  * slangasek nods
[06:57] <Kalidarn> ill try booting a 13.10 vm
[06:57] <slangasek> there's a RH bug report about newer openssh (6.3 and later) failing to talk to ciscos: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1026430
[06:57] <slangasek> there are some hints there about how to work around it with client options
[06:57] <Kalidarn> oh :)
[06:58] <Kalidarn> the description does sound relvant
[06:58] <slangasek> (found by searching for '"debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_GROUP" cisco', fwiw)
[06:58] <slangasek> if that turns out to be the problem, please file a bug against the openssh package in Ubuntu, referencing that one
[06:58] <Kalidarn> yeah
[07:02] <Kalidarn> slangasek: and i can confirm it works in 13.10
[07:03] <Kalidarn> i think it might already be lodged as a bug
[07:03] <Kalidarn> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssh/+bug/1287222
[07:08] <Kalidarn> and yes doing that solution works slangasek
[09:03] <cjwatson> slangasek,Kalidarn: I would say if there are workarounds then we should leave it at that.  I'm not at all keen on weakening the OpenSSH client's defaults due to bugs in embedded servers
[09:04] <cjwatson> (well, modulo documentation perhaps)
[09:04] <slangasek> cjwatson: fwiw the workaround in the RH bug indicates that you can /strengthen/ the defaults for the same result
[09:04] <slangasek> (i.e., it's an issue with a buffer limit on the server for kex options, so dropping the weakest solves the problem fine)
[09:04] <cjwatson> upstream's welcome to do that, but similarly this is in the class of things I Do Not Mess With in packaging
[09:05]  * slangasek nods
[09:05] <cjwatson> (because doing that means potentially dropping support for other systems and I don't want that to be on my head ... it's a domino trail)
[09:26] <Kalidarn> cjwatson: yeah I just wrote a shell script that i run
[09:27] <Kalidarn> sshCisco.sh user@host
[09:27] <Kalidarn> for cisco stuff
[09:27] <Kalidarn> calls ssh with the necessary options
[09:28] <Kalidarn> hopefully people who start using buntu 14.04 know what is up :P
[12:50] <doko_> kirkland, I see your name in a not uploaded facter-plugins tarball. can this package please removed alltogether?
[14:39] <doko_> Riddell, shadeslayer_ : please merge the changes from korundum 4:4.11.3-2, we need to remove ruby1.8 in trusty
[14:42] <doko_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/korundum/+bug/1303366
[17:27] <doko> geser, libaspectr (0.3.5-3ubuntu2) hardy ... removing now ..
[20:10] <Logan_> I like how tty1 keeps logging me out as soon as I log in
[20:24] <doko> Riddell, ScottK, shadeslayer_: it's really bad if you never sync the debian packaging in packages where you are always ahead of debian ...
[20:53] <psusi> cjwatson_, looks like there's another bug in parted I caused by backporting the loop fixes... I called the fat and ntfs probe code from the msdos label probe code because they can be confused with an msdos mbr.. but I think the old code there can't handle !512 byte sector sizes
[22:01] <ScottK> doko: We do periodically.  I'll take a look at it tonight or tomorrow if no one else does.
[22:09] <doko> in this case the period seems to be >= 3 years ;p
[22:15] <ScottK> Their Korundum/Qtruby packages were made from ours, so debian/changelog doesn't tell all.
[23:59] <lamont> The following packages have been kept back:
[23:59] <lamont>   libdb-dev
[23:59] <lamont> saucy->trusty upgrade didn't get rid of it, and it's still being held back...  I wonder if we care?


[00:07] <pizzledizzle> anyone here?
[01:26] <tripppy> rhpot1991, yes ati graphics, x800gt
[12:25] <new2linx> looking for help with setting up a slave backend mounting the mythtv directory from the Master BE. i have conflicting guides as far as which folders i should share from the mbe. can anyone help?
[13:38] <tripppy> hi, im getting a blank screen when i run mythtv-setup or mythfronend + others, in the terminal i get badmatch error's...
[13:40] <tripppy> http://pastebin.ca/1464799
[13:42] <tripppy> http://pastebin.ca/1464801
[14:06] <tripppy> i found a possible fix. but don't know what to do...
[14:06] <tripppy> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=700107
[14:08] <rhpot1991> tripppy: from the release notes (http://www.mythbuntu.org/9.04/Release_notes)
[14:08] <rhpot1991> bug 341898
[14:08] <Zinn> Bug 341898 in mythtv "MythTV Frontend does not work with RADEON DRI" [Unknown, Invalid] http://www.launchpad.net/bugs/341898
[14:21] <tripppy> ok. thanks. so if i change to a nvidia card. it should work?
[14:27] <rhpot1991> read the comments there are ways to work around it
[14:40] <tripppy> im a noob. i read all that. i didnt really see a fix, that was clear
[14:42] <Essobi> Good morning!
[16:50] <tmkt> my cpu usage is low..so don't get why its so choppy
[16:53] <rhpot1991> playback profiles?
[16:53] <tmkt> yeah..i just tried all of them
[16:53] <tmkt> best result is CPU++
[16:54] <tmkt> but still choppy
[16:54] <tmkt> not as smooth as I had with the onboard ATI x2100
[16:54] <rhpot1991> didn't see your original complaint anywhere
[16:56] <tmkt> 10:53:14 AM) tmkt: Morning... bought a motherboard last week that had ATI x2100 chipset on it... buggy drivers but the video was smooth when It worked  - so instead I went and bought PCI Geforce 6200 - now I can't get smooth HD, from what I read before getting the 6200, was it would work fine, unfortunatly, that's not the case..any ideas?
[16:56] <tmkt> HD video is the problem
[17:00] <tmkt> last thing I want to do is go get another video card
[17:03] <rhpot1991> sure you have closed source drivers enabled?
[17:03] <rhpot1991> 6200 should be good enough
[17:04] <tmkt> yeah
[17:04] <tmkt> xorg is drivers 'nvidia'
[17:05] <tmkt> nvideo-1.80
[17:06] <rhpot1991> is your cpu high enough for HD?
[17:06] <tmkt> PCI Geforce 6200 w/256mb ram
[17:06] <rhpot1991> !pastebin | tmkt
[17:06] <Zinn> tmkt: when pasting more than 5 lines of data please use http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com so you don't flood the channel.  Then please post the link in the channel.
[17:06] <rhpot1991> throw your xorg.conf in there
[17:06] <tmkt> k
[17:06] <rhpot1991> I'll be heading to lunch shortly, but maybe someone else can poke at it if I'm gone
[17:07] <tmkt> http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/m13016528
[17:08] <tmkt> AMD ATHLON X2 7750
[17:10] <tmkt> another odd thing I noticed is if I'm recording..i can stil watch other channels..didn't think I'd be able to do that
[17:10] <tmkt> but right now only 2 channels are available
[17:10] <rhpot1991> multirec maybe
[17:11] <tmkt> whereas when I'm not recording I can access 20 channels
[17:11] <rhpot1991> sounds like it
[17:11] <rhpot1991> Option          "AddARGBVisuals"        "True"
[17:11] <rhpot1991>         Option  "AddARGBGLXVisuals"     "True"
[17:11] <rhpot1991> I have in my device section as well
[17:11] <tmkt> k..adding them
[17:13] <rhpot1991> this box I have Option "NVAGP" "1"
[17:13] <rhpot1991> , forget why I have that
[17:14] <tmkt> that is for AGP video card though isn't it?
[17:14] <rhpot1991> guess it doesn't auto detect with EDID properly for you?
[17:14] <rhpot1991> ya, I was just thinking out loud
[17:15] <tmkt> what about that module glx stuff should I get rid of that?
[17:15] <tmkt> what is EDID?
[17:16] <rhpot1991> if supported it should just auto detect everything from your TV
[17:16] <tmkt> ah I'm guessing it does
[17:16] <tmkt> just starting putting more info in there..when I bring up the nvideo-settings tool
[17:17] <tmkt> it knows eveyrhint about my tv it seems
[17:17] <rhpot1991> should be able to just have a minimul config and let it detect the rest
[17:17] <rhpot1991> http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/m1394ddbd
[17:17] <rhpot1991> like so
[17:22] <tmkt> k
[17:22] <tmkt> trying that xorg
[17:23] <tmkt> rebooting
[17:25] <tmkt> sedems a little better what profile should I try?
[18:19] <tmkt> should I try compiling mythtv?
[18:22] <javatexan> morning all
[18:24] <tmkt> morning/afternoon to you sir
[18:24] <javatexan> I have a package dependency problem.
[18:27] <javatexan> I installed kompozer-dev and build-dep mozilla, now i have dependency problem The following packages have unmet dependencies: libnss3-dev: Depends: libnspr4-dev but it is not installed  AND xulrunner-1.9-dev: Depends: libnspr4-dev but it is not installed.  If i apt-get -f install, I get "dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libnspr4-dev_4.7.3-0ubuntu2_amd64.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite `/usr/share/aclocal/nspr.m4',
[18:27] <javatexan> any ideas on what to try next?
[18:28] <javatexan> I also tried sudo dpkg --configure -a
[18:29] <javatexan> autoclean and anything else I could find in ubuntu forums.  Is there a way to remove packages installed via apt-get install build-deps "blah"
[18:31] <vissie> yes you can uninstall with apt-get
[18:31] <vissie> hold on
[18:31] <vissie> apt-get remove packagename --> uninstall package
[18:31] <vissie> apt-get remove packagename --purge --> uninstall en remove files
[18:33] <vissie> its my first time to install Mythbuntu -  Just a quick question. What can the reason be that the "Channel Scanner" button is disabled?
[18:40] <vissie[SA]> !help
[18:40] <Zinn> !help For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].
[18:54] <tmkt> days of fighting and almost 100% satisfied with mythtv...just the HD video performance is annoying me
[18:54] <tmkt> would downgrading the nvidia drivers from 1.8 to 1.73 help?
[19:01] <tmkt> or should I be looking at Modeline for a solution?
[19:33] <rhpot1991> tmkt: I don't much care for modlines
[19:34] <tmkt> hmm
[19:34] <rhpot1991> and with that cpu/card combo I'd guess you'd want normal playback profile
[19:34] <rhpot1991> cpu++ or slim may be ok as well
[19:34] <tmkt> ok...yeah..right now none of the profiles are making much of a difference
[19:35] <tmkt> tried mythdora, mythbuntu... right now just using intrepid + mythtv, had jaunty and mythtv yesterday
[19:35] <tmkt> but all giving the same problem
[19:35] <tmkt> so right now I'm about to reboot with the 1.73 drivers
[19:35] <tmkt> don't see that helping
[19:36] <tmkt> also about to try this
[19:36] <tmkt> sudo leafpad /etc/X11/XvMCConfig (replace with libXvMCNVIDIA_dynamic.so.1)
[19:37] <tmkt> the only time I've had it perfect was with the Intrepid + on board ATI x2100 card
[19:37] <tmkt> b ut the drivers on that were buggy, and the video playback wasn't stable..
[19:38] <tmkt> it was smooth, but would crash mythtv out of nowhere, or display dual images
[19:38] <tmkt> so I did a adys worth of research.and it seemed like the geforce 6200 would be a great card for this
[19:38] <rhpot1991> you shouldn't need XvMC with that CPU
[19:39] <tmkt> yeah..the CPU is always at 10%
[19:39] <tmkt> its barely getting a workout
[19:39] <tmkt> using DVI->HDMI
[19:40] <rhpot1991> check the logs for any useful information?
[19:40] <rhpot1991> !logs
[19:40] <Zinn> MythTV logs are stored in /var/log/mythtv/   You can use mythbuntu-log-grabber from the Applications menu to automatically post the most relevant logs to our pastebin.
[19:40] <rhpot1991> can't be an IO issues, or network issue or anything?
[19:45] <tmkt> all on one machine
[19:45] <tmkt> should I enable compiz instead of metacity?
[19:46] <tmkt> things seem faster with compiz renabled
[19:46] <rhpot1991> compiz is useless there, and IIRC may cause some issues
[19:49] <tmkt> yeah
[19:49] <tmkt> didn't make a difference
[19:51] <tmkt> checking logs
[19:51] <tmkt> 2009-06-18 14:51:19.439 [mpegvideo_xvmc @ 0x7fd50219be70]get_buffer() failed (1<PHONE_NUMBER> 2 (nil))
[19:51] <tmkt> 2009-06-18 14:51:19.439 AFD Error: Unknown decoding error
[19:52] <tmkt> that's about it
[19:59] <tmkt> 42% cpu now
[20:00] <tmkt> hmm..choppy audio when osd is on
[20:00] <tmkt> Hmm
[20:01] <tmkt> shit
[20:01] <Zinn> tmkt: Please watch your language.
[20:01] <tmkt> its working now
[20:01] <tmkt> kinda..osd is causing choppy sound
[20:01] <tmkt> but HD video is smooth right now
[20:01] <rhpot1991> tmkt: with XvMC?
[20:02] <tmkt> I'm back on nvidia-1.8
[20:02] <tmkt> : sudo leafpad /etc/X11/XvMCConfig (replace with libXvMCNVIDIA_dynamic.so.1)
[20:02] <tmkt> with that
[20:02] <rhpot1991> grey OSD?
[20:02] <tmkt> yeah
[20:02] <tmkt> grey osd
[20:04] <rhpot1991> ok hmmm, you shouldn't need XvMC with that CPU, and choppyness with the OSD normally occurs with an underpowered CPU
[20:04] <tmkt> ever annoying
[20:04] <rhpot1991> what version of ubuntu?
[20:04] <tmkt> 8.10
[20:04] <rhpot1991> is this live tv or recordings?
[20:05] <tmkt> live tv
[20:05] <rhpot1991> try recordings
[20:05] <tmkt> recordings are fine too
[20:05] <tmkt> :D
[20:05] <rhpot1991> once upon a time there was a bug where live tv didn't choose playback profiles correctly and made HD not play right
[20:05] <rhpot1991> you might be hitting that bug
[20:06] <tmkt> something weird had happened too
[20:06] <tmkt> something happened to my settings
[20:06] <tmkt> I had to go back into general and setup my audio settings
[20:06] <rhpot1991> I believe the patch was included in the weekly builds, I have no idea if yours would have it or not at this point
[20:06] <tmkt> I've got the weekly fixes
[20:06] <tmkt> my audio settings went back to stereo
[20:06] <tmkt> so put them back to 5.1 and passthrough
[20:06] <tmkt> and all good
[20:06] <tmkt> what is the grey OSD I remember reading about that during my searches today
[20:07] <rhpot1991> you get it when you are using XvMC
[20:07] <rhpot1991> basically the driver doesn't support colored textures there
[20:08] <tmkt> ah..ok..so how do I disable xvmc
[20:08] <tmkt> Settings -> Playback ->Profiles?
[20:11] <tmkt> another question..when I'm looking at the listings guide
[20:11] <tmkt> if I hit OK
[20:11] <tmkt> it brings up info about the show, and recordings options
[20:11] <tmkt> how do I get it to just go to the channel
[20:12] <rhpot1991> undo the libXvMCNVIDIA_dynamic.so.1 change, or pick a playback provile that doesn't have it
[20:13] <rhpot1991> not sure about the guide sorry, ask in #mythtv-users
[20:14] <tmkt> yeah..CPU+ works
[20:14] <tmkt> probably due to the libX thing
[20:14] <tmkt> I tried Normal profile
[20:14] <tmkt> and it because choppy again
[20:14] <tmkt> seems like I need th libX
[20:14] <tmkt> vmcn..
[20:19] <tmkt> thank you sir
[20:23] <rhpot1991> no problem, glad you got it working in the end
[20:30] <tmkt> yeah..23.5% CPU usage right now
[20:31] <tmkt> with HD golf on
[20:31] <tmkt> gets choppy when any OSD stuff happens, but other then that all good
[20:33] <rhpot1991> you can enable fading effects for the OSD, might cut down on that some
[20:33] <rhpot1991> prob want to make sure that opengl is disabled for it as well
[20:34] <tmkt> yes..the fadding in/out of the osd is a pain
[20:58] <entraide-net> pvrusb2 from http://www.isely.net/pvrusb2/pvrusb2.html (included with recent kernels). (from kernel 2.6.???)
[21:05] <SHADOW_V> how can i tell which recording is which in the recordings directory
[21:19] <tmkt> yeah..
[21:19] <tmkt> that sucks