[03:41] <nosrednaekim> Jucato: Troy on #kde told me to do this...
[03:42] <nosrednaekim> good... I really DIDN'T want to hurt you
[04:50] <Hobbsee> why dont we install samba by default?
[04:51] <ScottK> Because it's only needed for compatibility with legacy operating systems.
[04:51] <Hobbsee> define legacy OS's?
[04:51] <ScottK> Windows
[04:52] <ScottK> That's be my guess anyway
[04:52] <Hobbsee> right, yeah, but it's still used enough
[04:52] <Tm_T> Windows used? You're sure?
[04:53] <ScottK> Tm_T: Samba implements the SMB protocol which is what Windows networking uses.
[04:53] <Tm_T> ScottK: you didn't get my sarcasm, btw "Windows" without version is too generalising, so that's false
[04:53] <ScottK> Ah.  Sorry
[04:54] <ScottK> OK.
[04:54] <Tm_T> like, I have laptop with Windows, and it doesn't support samba
[04:54] <Hobbsee> ScottK: like, zeroconf?
[04:54] <Tm_T> actually, it doesn't support any reasonable networking except serial modem
[04:56] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Dunno exactly.  I don't do any Windows networking so I don't pay attention exactly.  I associate the word zeroconf with a horribly broken thing that Novell shoved into opensuse 10.1 and is the reason I'm a Kubunt user.
[04:57] <ScottK> I do know that works out of the box in Windows dominated networks would be a good thing for deployment even if I don't need it.
[05:06] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Any interest in trying out those shiny new core-dev powers?  Bug #41302...
[05:06] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 41302 in postfix "resolvconf update-libc error" [Medium,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/41302
[05:38] <Hobbsee> ScottK: you werent goign to push that thru to debian?
[05:39] <ScottK> Hobbsee: I figured I'd get them approved here first and then if Ubuntu thought it was good, I'd send the patches to Debian.
[05:39] <Hobbsee> ScottK: right
[05:40] <Hobbsee> ScottK: may as well send it in both directions, then they can decide themselves
[05:41] <ScottK> Also one of the postfix bugs was just reported and every now and then I like to do the open source "Bug fixed in 1 day" thing.  I think it helps keep interest up among the people that report.
[05:42] <Hobbsee> ScottK: uploaded.  just check that the changelogs *do* autoclose, please
[05:42] <ScottK> Hobbsee: WIll do.
[05:42] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Thanks.
[05:42] <Hobbsee> :) no problem
[06:01] <nixternal> hey, bug 121682 needs an ack or an upload, kthxbye
[06:02] <nixternal> err, never mind, I just noticed the ack
[06:02] <Jucato> kthxbye
[06:02] <Jucato> :)
[06:03] <nixternal> hehe
[06:04] <nixternal> when some acks a sync request, how does that work exactly? is it manually or automagically sync'd?
[06:04] <nixternal> I need my own Ubuntu package to maintain
[06:05] <nixternal> my very own, like noPONY4u
[06:05] <Jucato> lol
[06:05] <nixternal> noPONY~4u-0ubuntu1
[06:06] <nixternal> my copyright file would read "as long as you aren't Microsoft, you can do whatever you wish with this file...if you are Microsoft than HAHAHAHAHA YOUSUCK!"
[06:07] <nixternal> haha, or HAHAHAH NOPONY~4u
[06:07] <Jucato> lol
[06:08] <Tm_T> nixternal: if you put empty bottles away, that doesn't help much
[06:08] <Jucato> how about Apple? Linspire? Xandros? :P
[06:08] <Tm_T> except you won't hurt yourself with it then
[06:08] <nixternal> Jucato: they can use, just not Microsoft
[06:09] <Tm_T> nixternal: why's that?
[06:09] <nixternal> because I said so?
[06:09] <Tm_T> wel, I sorta asked why you say so
[06:09] <Jucato> hehhe
[06:09] <nixternal> I would strike a patent deal with MS, although they probably wouldn't like it
[06:10] <Jucato> you would? O.o
[06:10] <nixternal> man, BarCamp tomorrow :/
[06:10] <nixternal> ya, I would love to get ballmer and the rest of his lawyers in a room and then.......
[06:10] <nixternal> BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!
[06:10] <Jucato> lol!
[06:10] <Tm_T> nixternal: tell that there's no chairs?
[06:10] <Jucato> that I can stomach :)
[06:11] <Tm_T> nixternal: I prefer fruit basket
[06:12] <nixternal> hehe
[06:12] <Tm_T> nixternal: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20070617
[06:12] <Tm_T> "I still sit on it" hah
[06:13] <nixternal> hahhahahaha
[06:13] <Tm_T> see, fruit basket
[06:15] <Jucato> hehehe :)
[06:15] <nixternal> that is great
[06:16] <Jucato> (nice site too)
[06:17] <Jucato> http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20040404 <--- very nice :)
[06:17] <Hobbsee> nixternal: it's manually synced, later
[06:18] <Hobbsee> nixternal: haha.  noPONY4u would be a fun package
[06:18] <Tm_T> Jucato: nice date indeed
[06:18] <Jucato> Tm_T: yeah. clicking on "Random" sure is fun :)
[06:18] <Tm_T> yup
[06:18] <Tm_T> though reading thru is more fun
[06:19] <Tm_T> (I mean all of them)
[09:08] <mhb> good morning
[10:44] <mhb> any .desktop file wizard around?
[01:48] <Hobbsee> mhb: persia
[01:53] <mhb> Hobbsee: eh?
[01:53] <Hobbsee> mhb: desktop file wizard
[01:53] <Hobbsee> s/wizard/whizz/
[01:55] <mhb> Hobbsee: ah
[01:55] <mhb> Hobbsee: well, does he do KDE?
[01:56] <Hobbsee> mhb: sure
[01:56] <Hobbsee> hi Nightrose
[01:56] <Nightrose> hey Hobbsee ;-)
[01:56] <Hobbsee> :)
[01:56] <Hobbsee> did you get that package reviewed, btw?
[01:56] <Nightrose> yep  *g*
[01:58] <Nightrose> and your exam?
[01:58] <Hobbsee> urgh.  wasnt *too* evil.  the one on monday will be worse
[01:58] <Hobbsee> uni just isnt interesting enough, compared to ubuntu.  it's troublesome.
[01:58] <Nightrose> hehe I know
[02:15] <Hobbsee> hi nosrednaeki1
[02:16] <nosrednaeki1> hmmm IDK what happened to my name
[02:16] <nosrednaeki1> hello
[02:21] <nosrednaekim> thats better
[02:21] <nosrednaekim> so whats up Hobbsee
[02:23] <Hobbsee> nosrednaekim: work is over.  hooray.  the boss actually pays attention to the emergency clal, which is good
[02:25] <nosrednaekim> thats nice.
[02:26] <Hobbsee> yeah, rather
[02:27] <mhb> anyone tried Klash?
[02:27] <nosrednaekim> heh mhb, I found out that I was born a week to late to be considered for the google SoC next year :(
[02:28] <mhb> the Konqueror Free Flash Plugin
[02:28] <fdoving> mhb: gnash with a K ?
[02:29] <mhb> fdoving: heh, yeah
[02:29] <fdoving> mhb: gnash worked on powerpc, to play youtube things.
[02:29] <fdoving> now i'm back on x86, so i don't use it anymore.
[02:30] <mhb> fdoving: there's a spec for having free flash in Ubuntu
[02:30] <mhb> fdoving: and there is a klash/ subdir of gnash, which should contain a Konqueror plugin
[02:31] <fdoving> klash is in universe.
[02:31] <mhb> is it?
[02:31] <fdoving> apt-cache search gnash
[02:31] <fdoving> multiple options.
[02:32] <mhb> I see
[02:32] <fdoving> not sure which one worked for me, i think klash didn't.. but it's a while ago.
[02:32] <xerosis> klash doesnt work very well for me
[04:32] <Arby> does anybody use adept with a german locale, trying to triage bug 92883?
[04:32] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 92883 in adept "Part of the interface of adapt is not shown in German" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92883
[05:11] <jjesse> morning
[05:12] <Hobbsee> hiya
[05:12] <jjesse> how are you Hobbsee?
[05:12] <Hobbsee> jjesse: coping :)
[05:12] <Hobbsee> jjesse: exams and such :(
[05:12] <Hobbsee> jjesse: and so much i want to do for kubuntu as well - and i'm procrastinating
[05:12] <Hobbsee> but there's tribe 2 soon, which will be fun :)
[05:12] <jjesse> yay for tribe 2
[05:12] <jjesse> i'm so glad i'm done w/ university
[05:12] <nixternal> oi oi
[05:13] <jjesse> i keep thinking about going back to get my master's but then i think better
[05:13] <jjesse> hello nixternal how's vista today?
[05:13] <nixternal> broken?
[05:13] <nixternal> trojanized?
[05:13] <jjesse> :)
[05:14] <jjesse> nosrednaekim: has tribe-1 completly updatede running in a vm
[05:14] <mhb> Hobbsee: english is fun
[05:14] <Hobbsee> mhb: hm?
[05:14] <nosrednaekim> I want it to test out with my hardware...
[05:15] <nosrednaekim> vm's are cheating
[05:15] <mhb> Hobbsee: for example, I never know which one of the words (procrastination, procreation) means what
[05:17] <Hobbsee> mhb: ahhh.  right, yes.  couldnt see how it was relevant before
[05:17] <Hobbsee> mhb: procrastination == putting things off.
[05:18] <mhb> Hobbsee: yeah, at least the context helps
[05:18] <mhb> aaanyway
[05:19] <Jucato> procrastination == what Jucato is best at :)
[05:19] <Hobbsee> mhb: i believe dict <term> is useful
[05:26] <mhb> aaaaanyway
[05:26] <mhb> would you people prefer a standalone restricted manager or a systemsettings restricted manager?
[05:27] <Hobbsee> now there's a good question
[05:27] <Hobbsee> when does it get called?
[05:27] <nosrednaekim> systemsettings would require integrating it into guidance wouldn't it?
[05:27] <Jucato> one that could be integrated with the proper apps.. probably Adept...
[05:27] <Hobbsee> mhb: is this for installing the restricted extras, or for installing video card support, etc?
[05:28] <mhb> Hobbsee: restricted-manager is for non-free drivers & stuff
[05:28] <Jucato> hm... good question... is the restricted manager sort of split into parts? I mean can we put the one for videos in kde-guidance?
[05:28] <mhb> Hobbsee: like firmware
[05:29] <mhb> installing codecs is another story, not handled by me
[05:29] <Hobbsee> mhb: right.  i think i have an open page about it, which i havent read yet.
[05:29] <Jucato> hm... what does the "& stuff" cover?
[05:29] <Hobbsee> mhb: i would suspect separately, but i'm not sure. guidance may well be a good place to put it
[05:30] <Jucato> yes, if the restricted manager for drivers is a separate program, it would probably be best to somehow make it work with guidance... but probably not hard coded into guidance?
[05:30] <Jucato> (upstream)
[05:31] <Arby> should bug 121456 be milestoned for tribe 2?
[05:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121456 in adept "Adept couldn't open APT database" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121456
[05:32] <Arby> adept appears to be unusably broken
[05:32] <Arby> Jucato: :)
[05:33] <mhb> Jucato: firmware
[05:33] <Arby> however, the question remains, milestone?
[05:33] <mhb> Jucato: restricted-manager is for drivers only
[05:34] <mhb> Arby: ( you're gonna fix it ? milestone : not sure)
[05:34] <Jucato> mhb: ah ok. then I think systemsettings would be the place for it. maybe even a separate control module? :)
[05:34] <Arby> mhb: I'm not capable of fixing it :)
[05:34] <Arby> but adept is unusable as it stands
[05:35] <mhb> Arby: you can read my opinion in that if;then;else statement then
[05:37] <Arby> mhb: fair enough.
[05:37] <Arby> IMHO it should be a milestone but I don't have the skills to do it so I'll leave it.
[05:38] <marseillai> hi
[05:39] <Hobbsee> Arby: requires someone interested in fixing it, too
[05:39] <Hobbsee> hiya marseillai
[05:39] <marseillai> if anyone has time i've two package to revu : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5711 a big update for smplayer and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5710 and update of kima wich resolve a bug wich makes crash kicker on debian system
[05:39] <Hobbsee> Arby: that looks local
[05:40] <Arby> Hobbsee: Really? I don't see what you mean.
[05:41] <Hobbsee> Arby: what happens when you do "apt-get clean"?
[05:42] <Arby> hang on I'll check
[05:43] <Arby> Hobbsee: the error is still the same after running apt-get clean
[05:43] <Hobbsee> Arby: i'm not convinced it's milestone-worthy, as it looks like a local problem.
[05:43] <Hobbsee> which error?
[05:43] <Hobbsee> Arby: ie, what's the exact error?
[05:43] <Arby> could not open cache
[05:44] <Hobbsee> Arby: does it say anything about the lock?
[05:44] <Hobbsee> oh right, is ee.
[05:44] <Arby> as in josephb comment on the report
[05:44] <Hobbsee> that's....okay, that's a rpblem
[05:44] <Arby> no mention of any locks
[05:45] <Arby> yes, yes it is :)
[05:45] <Arby> incidentally 'sudo apt-setup' returns command not found
[05:45] <Hobbsee> use apt-cache saerch apt setup for it
[05:46] <Arby> looking
[05:47] <Arby> :)
[05:47] <Hobbsee> (you need to be in ~ubuntu-dev to be able to milestone, and part of ~ubuntu-release to approve/decline)
[05:48] <Arby> Hobbsee: ah, didn't know that
[05:48] <Hobbsee> no problem.  it's not well known
[05:48] <Arby> also, apt-setup doesn't seem to exist
[05:49] <Arby> apt-cache search apt-setup returns no results
[05:51] <Hobbsee> right
[05:51] <Hobbsee> then i have no idea what it refers to - man apt may bring up something
[05:51] <Arby> Hobbsee: there is this in debian http://packages.debian.org/unstable/source/apt-setup
[05:52] <Arby> but no equvalent that I can find in kubuntu
[05:53] <Hobbsee> oh neat.  found a laucnhpad bug.
[05:54] <Arby> Hobbsee: where?
[05:54] <Hobbsee> Arby: it thinks triaged is a closed state.
[05:55] <Arby> hehe, whoops.
[05:55] <Hobbsee> yeah.  classy.
[05:55] <Arby> Hobbsee: do you think I should file a bug against that adept dialogue
[05:56] <Arby> it's misleading at best and plain wrong at worst
[05:56] <mhb> Hobbsee: "triaged" means "no need to post other details, all is there", right?
[05:56] <Arby> mhb: yes
[05:57] <mhb> I'm not an Adept developer, but I must say bug 121456 doesn't look triaged at all to me :o)
[05:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121456 in adept "Adept couldn't open APT database" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121456
[05:58] <Hobbsee> mhb: pretty much. m eans "ready for fixing"
[05:58] <Hobbsee> mhb: this is true - but it's fairly easy to check
[05:58] <Hobbsee> as in, it's got enough info for a dev to start working on it
[05:59] <Arby> if you can suggest what to do to gather more info I'm happy to try it
[05:59] <Hobbsee> i dont develop adept
[05:59] <Hobbsee> you'll have to wait for manchicken_ or Riddell over that one
[06:00] <Arby> Hobbsee: fair enough
[06:05] <Hobbsee> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/47455/comments/8 is interesting
[06:05] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 47455 in kdebase "KDM detected memory corruption" [High,Confirmed]
[06:24] <Hobbsee> Arby: can you confirm https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/kde-guidance/+bug/119408 ?
[06:24] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 119408 in kde-guidance "[gutsy]  kde-guidance power manager causes screen to turn off" [Undecided,New]
[06:24] <Arby> looking
[06:25] <Arby> Hobbsee: no I can't reporduce that either
[06:26] <Arby> *reproduce
[06:26] <Hobbsee> Arby: right.  want to mention that on the bug report please?
[06:26] <Arby> sure
[06:26] <Hobbsee> will need to poke bdmurray about that
[06:26] <Hobbsee> thanks
[06:26] <Hobbsee> mark it as incomplete too, please
[06:28] <Arby> done
[06:28] <Hobbsee> thanks very much :)
[06:40] <Arby> is anybody able to confirm bug 115457?
[06:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 115457 in adept "Adept installer crashed in Kubuntu7.04 installing Thunderbird" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115457
[06:51] <ScottK> Arby: The real question is bug or feature? ;-)
[06:51] <Arby> ScottK: hehe, true
[06:51] <Arby> fix released: use kmail :)
[06:53] <Arby> ScottK: what's your opinion, I'm inclined to squash it (insufficient info)?
[07:02] <ScottK> Arby: I'll have a look
[07:03] <Nightrose> Riddell: apachelogger asked me to ping you about the article for amarok 1.4.6 on the dot - I just posted it
[07:05] <ScottK> Arby: I'd leave it for another week or two and mark it invalid if the reporter doesn't respond.
[07:05] <Arby> ScottK: OK thanks
[08:10] <apachelogger> anyone with thinkpad around?
[08:12] <claydoh> not me unless you count the old (1998) 770 I have :)
[08:30] <Jannex> apachelogger: I have one
[08:31] <apachelogger> Jannex: can you try a kopete plugin which is flashing the light when a message comes in?
[08:32] <Jannex> apachelogger: Sure, in a moment
[08:45] <apachelogger> Jannex: http://aplg.kollide.net/kubuntu/kopete-thinklight/kopete-thinklight_0.3-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
[08:45] <apachelogger> it should automatically set proper permissions for the proc file to access the light
[08:46] <apachelogger> that's new in 0.3 and I'm not entirely sure whether this works as supposed
[08:46] <apachelogger> -f
[08:46] <apachelogger> ;-)
[10:13] <mhb> hi ryan
[10:13] <mhb> RadiantFire: ^^
[10:13] <RadiantFire> hey mhb
[10:15] <RadiantFire> how goes it?
[10:17] <mhb> RadiantFire: well, I'm kind of stuck
[10:17] <mhb> RadiantFire: gdebi-kde has to be merged first and I haven't started restricted-manager yet
[10:18] <mhb> RadiantFire: so I'm probably ready for some kdesudo action :o)
[10:22] <pdenapo> Hi
[10:22] <pdenapo> I'm trying to make my own kubuntu live cd
[10:22] <pdenapo> for mathematics
[10:23] <pdenapo> can I remove the "bin" or the "pool" directory from the live CD for making room for other things?
[10:23] <pdenapo> I don't need win32 applications
[10:24] <pdenapo> and why there are some .deb packages that are not in the the compressed (squashfs) filesystem?
[10:26] <pdenapo> join /ubuntu-iso
[10:42] <RadiantFire> hello again mhb
[10:44] <mhb> RadiantFire: hello again to you
[10:44] <RadiantFire> I think I finally got everything working again. I had a tiny UPS that decided to fry this morning
[10:45] <mhb> RadiantFire: could I ask you for something?
[10:45] <RadiantFire> sure
[10:45] <mhb> RadiantFire: could you please create a new file for your sudo endeavours?
[10:45] <RadiantFire> you can always ask ;-)
[10:46] <RadiantFire> ok
[10:46] <mhb> RadiantFire: so sudoprocess.cpp will be for using ptyprocess, whereas someothersudoprocess.cpp will be for reimplementing ptyprocess, which you tried to do, I gues
[10:46] <mhb> s
[10:46] <RadiantFire> this can be arranged
[10:47] <mhb> thanks so much
[10:49] <RadiantFire> i hate to reinvent the wheel, but the end goal is to give me enough of an understanding to figure out why the other way isn't working
[10:56] <mhb> RadiantFire: no problem, poke me once you commit a new file, so I can keep my changes in the old one
[10:57] <RadiantFire> sure, just shuffling them around now
[11:10] <mhb> RadiantFire: done, do bzr up
[11:10] <RadiantFire> sorry, didn't mean to clobber that file, I was just using it to get a hang for how the PtyProcess works
[11:10] <RadiantFire> er, how pty's work anyway
[11:11] <mhb> no problem
[11:18] <RadiantFire> mhb: so, I have made the library implementation of pty process do what I want :-)
[11:20] <mhb> RadiantFire: mmm, my sudoprocess.cpp gets linked in with you ptyprocess implementation
[11:20] <mhb> RadiantFire: => ld error
[11:20] <RadiantFire> sorry, I'm done with it
[11:20] <RadiantFire> just get rid of the main
[11:20] <RadiantFire> actually
[11:20] <RadiantFire> I'll get rid of the main
[11:21] <mhb> RadiantFire: did you find out how to make sudo report to the same pty?
[11:21] <RadiantFire> I'm still working on that
[11:21] <RadiantFire> but I have a grasp of pty now, so I don't need the PtyProcess anymore
[11:22] <RadiantFire> was just using it to test out some ideas, get a handle on how it worked
[11:22] <RadiantFire> I'm actually off to dinner with the uncle, but I'll bbl, and tackle that problem


[00:01] <pleia2> LVM and RAID are the reason I use the alt, but 95% of the people I recommend it to use it because the graphical one won't load
[00:01] <knome> micahg, if having cryptsetup means the user will be able to enrypt anything, then i suppose very slim. i've been in favor of dropping alt's too, but pleia2, Unit193 and others have raised concerns; based on those and my limited knowledge of all the use cases alt could have, i haven't made a final decision yet, but decided to leave it as it is
[00:02] <pleia2> will server still have an alt? Not sure how you'd do an install over ssh with ubiquity
[00:02] <micahg> yeah, I think so
[00:02] <micahg> but server might not be i386
[00:02] <micahg> there's always netboot
[00:02] <knome> and mini
[00:03] <knome> which i have been proposing for the alternative for alternate
[00:03] <knome> this would also mean less effort needed for testing.
[00:04] <pleia2> I'm also a grumpy old debian sysadmin so I <3 the d-i
[00:04] <knome> pleia2, your marketing target audience didn't specify an age group
[00:04] <pleia2> *
[00:04] <knome> ;)
[00:06] <knome> pleia2, how often do you recommend the alt to people since the graphical installer isn't loading?
[00:07]  * micahg would suggest testing early and often to get the GUI installer working
[00:08] <knome> yes; alternate images are partly dragging the testing too
[00:08] <pleia2> I don't have metrics to give a useful answer to that, and I admit that I don't do any debugging when it "doesn't work" since recommending the alt is usually the right answer
[00:08] <pleia2> at least, it's the much easier one with a non-technical user
[00:08] <knome> since we don't have non-PAE support in 12.10-> either, doesn't that already rule out some of the oldest machines, which are probably the ones that will not run the graphical installer?
[00:09] <pleia2> true
[00:09] <knome> and actually pointing people to rather use the mini installer and just do "sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop" isn't *too* hard
[00:09] <pleia2> well, if mini will keep the alternate installer, I guess your solution to tell them to use tat and install xubuntu-desktop is ok
[00:09] <knome> there is no alt/desktop for mini
[00:09] <knome> mini is... mini.
[00:10] <pleia2> ok, if mini will keep the debian installer... :)
[00:10] <knome> :)
[00:10] <knome> why wouldn't it?
[00:10] <knome> it doesn't come with X packages
[00:10] <knome> !minimal
[00:10] <pleia2> I don't know, people do crazy things
[00:10] <knome> Ubuntu 12.04 "Precise Pangolin" Minimal CD 27MB*
[00:11] <pleia2> they could put ubiquity on the cd and just not install the shiny bits
[00:11] <knome> lol
[00:11] <knome> ...
[00:11] <knome> as if...
[00:11] <pleia2> I don't actually know how big ubiquity+dependencies are :)
[00:11] <pleia2> maybe it's secretly small
[00:11] <knome> haha
[00:11] <knome> :)
[00:12] <knome> if we drop the alt, and cryptsetup/LVM/RAID doesn't work for 12.10, how much do we lose?
[00:13] <knome> it's the release after LTS, this is the place to do things like this
[00:13] <knome> they will probably get it fixed by next LRS
[00:13] <knome> *LTS
[00:13]  * knome knocks wood
[00:13] <pleia2> loss of LVM would be :(
[00:13] <pleia2> I use it a lot
[00:13] <micahg> LVM supposedly works, why not try it now
[00:13] <knome> LVM should work
[00:14] <pleia2> okie
[00:19] <GridCube> I think that the big topic here is what do WE want, do we want to be a distribution aimed to old specs hardware, or we aim to be a full equiped alternative, standard paradigmatic, distribution aimed to all those who dislike the "unity path"
[00:19] <GridCube> alternate disks are fine, but i've found using them on newer machines is useless
[00:20] <Unit193> I have a 500MHz, 512M, 10G comp that has support for PAE, it doesn't count out all ones that don't take Ubiquity as well.
[00:20] <knome> supporting older hardware is fine, but with not having a kernel supporting non-PAE already means we will lose some userbase
[00:20] <knome> Unit193, but does it work with the graphical installer?
[00:20] <GridCube> knome, yes, thats where the decision has to come
[00:21] <pleia2> closer to the latter according to our strategy document (but I don't agree we're "aimed to all those who dislike the "unity path"")
[00:21] <knome> so, even if we had the alternate disks, there's no way to support those machins with no PAE
[00:21] <GridCube> My semi-modern netbook wont recognize the wireless network card on alternate, but it does on desktop iso's
[00:21] <knome> yes, i wrote an article about it too: http://open.knome.fi/2012/08/19/xubuntu-is-not-a-refugee-camp/
[00:22] <Unit193> Well, if we drop alternate, we have to test mini and install xubuntu-desktop to see if we get the same things.
[00:22] <pleia2> we dropped our "aimed to old specs hardware" thing a couple years ago ;) I point people to lubuntu
[00:22] <knome> Unit193, of course, but that's a lot easier than testing two alt images of about 700MB
[00:23] <pleia2> and alt keeps breaking so then micahg^Wsomeone has to fix it :\
[00:23] <knome> yeah, will probably keep breaking more after ubuntu drops support
[00:23] <pleia2> yeah, that's my fear
[00:23] <knome> unless you meant exactly that
[00:23] <pleia2> pretty sure it's broken at the moment
[00:23] <knome> well that goes without saying
[00:24] <pleia2> it was yesterday anyway
[00:24] <knome> :)
[00:25] <GridCube> pleia2, exactly my point, i've been pointing people to lubuntu and even to tinycore if i think it deserves it
[00:25] <knome> yes, it's not a competition really
[00:25] <GridCube> I think we should make a point and say, well people, we need to move on.
[00:26] <GridCube> moving on is not neglecting people with older hardware, there are many other distros pointed to them
[00:26] <Unit193> knome: Technically, I'm pretty sure mine could get ubiquity to work, but I wouldn't personally bother.
[00:26] <knome> in the theoretical case that we decided to keep alt...
[00:27] <knome> 1) alt would break more often, or as much as now, but we would be fixing it ourself
[00:27] <knome> 2) we would still need to continue testing alt; if we dropped, we could even add tests for mini and those would be easier to run anyway
[00:28] <Unit193> What are Kubuntu, Lubuntu, and whatever else?
[00:28] <knome> no idea
[00:28] <knome> kubuntu probably drops it, if they haven't already
[00:28] <knome> lubuntu might stick to it
[00:28] <knome> and i hope they will
[00:28] <knome> (and not just because that's one more reason to be able to drop alt from xubuntu9
[00:29] <Unit193> )
[00:29] <knome> heh
[00:32] <knome> stgraber raised some concerns over LTSP installability with no alt; does anybody think that's essential for xubuntu? :P
[00:32] <knome> hey sean
[00:38] <knome> bluesabre, ?  :)
[00:39] <micahg> alternate is currently broke due to the mismatching indicator gtk2 stack
[00:40] <micahg> mr_pouit said he'd upload the replacement stack at some point
[00:40]  * micahg can't get to it this week
[00:40] <knome> yes, i talked with him; he asked for help from the lubuntu team too
[00:45] <bluesabre> knome, what's up?
[00:47] <knome> bluesabre, as a very possible future xubuntu developer, what do you think of dropping/keeping alternate images? see: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-August/035675.html
[00:48] <bluesabre> Aren't one big benefit of the alternate images that you can install with significantly less ram?  Which kinda benefits xubuntu and lubuntu installation scenarios I would imagine
[00:50] <knome> probably, but would the system be usable with eg. 256 ram anyway?
[00:51] <knome> well, anyway; there is always the minimal iso
[00:51] <knome> install that + run "sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop"
[00:51] <Unit193> Though alternates permit you to have no internet connection.
[00:52] <knome> except when downloading, but i can see your point
[00:52] <knome> how common do you think that is?
[00:52] <bluesabre> I think if we had a page somewhere on the website that showed how to use the minimal iso, it wouldn't be too bad
[00:52] <knome> bluesabre, we can do that. it's really simple anyway
[00:53] <bluesabre> And not having the minimal isos would make less work and less testing, so theoretically a better product
[00:53] <knome> you mean alt
[00:53] <knome> ? :)
[00:54] <bluesabre> yeah
[00:54] <bluesabre> alt
[00:54] <bluesabre> :D
[00:54] <knome> yes, i agree with that
[00:55] <GridCube> knome, but there is apt-offline
[00:56] <Unit193> Another reason to add it. :P
[00:56] <knome> there's a mention of "aptoncd" on our docs, how useful is that?
[00:56] <GridCube> people who have to download the iso can download a minimal and the offline for xubuntu-desktop
[00:56] <GridCube> i know is a pita but...
[00:56] <GridCube> there are better options for old hw than xubuntu
[00:56] <GridCube> :/
[00:56] <knome> not that bad if we have a easy-to-follow tutorial though
[00:56] <knome> well, not having an internet connection doesn't mean you have bad hardware
[00:57] <knome> you might be just really isolated
[00:57] <knome> siberia.
[00:57] <knome> central africa.
[00:57] <knome> antarctic.
[00:57] <Unit193> ...Indiana.
[00:57] <knome> yeah
[00:57] <GridCube> sure, but if they get an iso they can get a smaller one and some offline apts
[00:57] <knome> GridCube, though we can't suggest anything else than the whole xubuntu-desktop
[00:58] <knome> GridCube, unless we create a xubuntu-minimal metapackage, which doesn't depend on the applications
[00:58] <knome> eg. will leave abiword, gnumeric, ff, tb, gmb out
[00:59] <GridCube> again, I think that the point is if we want to *really* adress those people, who have old hardware or not
[01:00] <GridCube> if they are isolated but they can use the desktop image they will
[01:00] <knome> right, that's true
[01:00] <knome> unless they have one of the newer machines that won't support desktop
[01:00] <knome> but that should be "fixed" by testing ubiquity more
[01:02] <GridCube> sure, they can also have quantum microprocesors and whatnot, :P we cant make everyone happy, nor we should try to. We should try to make the most consistent product possible, knowing who we target and what we want to achieve
[01:02] <GridCube> i think that our Strategy Document was clear on that
[01:03] <Unit193> Bummer if we do drop it. Synaptic and alternate in the same release. :/
[01:03] <knome> Unit193, apt-get... :)
[01:06] <GridCube> synaWHA?!
[01:06] <GridCube> D:
[01:06] <GridCube> synaptic is leaving?! jockey-gtk is leaving?! D:
[01:06] <Unit193> Ah, all three in one, thanks GridCube.
[01:07] <GridCube> its not my fault :(
[01:07] <GridCube> i like those apps
[01:08] <bluesabre> quick, let's port them and rebase them on libmate!
[01:08] <bluesabre> gnome2 forever
[01:08] <bluesabre> :P
[01:08] <knome> GridCube, synaptic is going simply because it isn't maintained actively
[01:08] <GridCube> :|
[01:08] <GridCube> sad
[01:09] <Unit193> knome: I understand, just still think it is the best UI, even though it might be better to get rid since it is GTK2 as well.
[01:10] <knome> Unit193, well yeah, you are of course free to install it, as goes with other apps; i believe many want to use chrome, evolve/claws, other music players ...
[01:11] <Unit193> Yep, sure am.
[01:11] <knome> again, quantal is LTS+1
[01:11] <knome> time to drop old stuff and get along
[01:14] <micahg> we're stuck with GTK2 until xfce is fully ported
[01:14] <knome> yeah, that's true
[01:14] <knome> but that doesn't make synaptic maintained :]
[01:14] <micahg> mvo keeps updating it :)
[01:14] <knome> but hasn't he promised not to for a few times? :D
[01:16] <knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-August/008393.html
[06:43] <Sysi> how much RAM is needed to really run ubiquity? in the early days of ubiquity I had to add swap to not have it dying because of too little memory, instalation was awfully slow but still worked
[06:46] <Sysi> I know many people use alternate because they trust it more than ubiquity, so it would be kinda better to not have crippled alt available
[06:51] <Sysi> when ubiquity gets proper LVM support, doesn't that give RAID functionality? though as mentioned in that email it's quite easy to setup dmraid after installation
[06:52] <pleia2> it gives you the ability to pool disks like raid0, but it's not the same
[06:55] <pleia2> and it's much easier to set up raid in the installer
[07:05] <Sysi> so it is question of having some functionality (and memory usage)
[07:41] <Sysi> with 256MB livecd doesn't seem to boot, with 512MB and 64MB graphics memory installs just fine (current daily, now loading language package)
[07:42] <Sysi> well, it did boot but stuck after loading panels
[07:46] <elfy> hi mips1911
[07:46] <mips1911> hi elfy
[07:46] <knome> hey elfy. you happen to know anything about docbook?
[07:47] <elfy> fraid not knome - or I'd have answered your mail :(
[07:47] <knome> heh, np
[07:47] <knome> do you know anything about the conventions of ubuntu docs then?
[07:47] <knome> for example, what does it mean that ~xubuntu-docs is a subteam of ~ubuntu-docs - what does that give us
[07:48] <elfy> I think that is possibly just the way that LP sets things up
[07:48] <elfy> forum membership team is a subteam of ubuntu members as another example
[07:49] <knome> yeah, but i'm wondering if that gives us some permissions
[07:49] <elfy> I would think it would allow you to do what you need to do
[07:49] <knome> i am sure there are some technical implications
[07:49] <knome> yes, but what *is* that? :D
[07:50] <knome> only documentation contributors can push, i think
[07:50] <elfy> I'd suggest the place to hang about waiting for a real answer would be #ubuntu-doc
[07:50] <knome> well yeah, i've asked there and waited, and we've asked the ML
[07:51] <elfy> :(
[07:51] <knome> seriously, it seems that if you want to get something done relatively quickly, you need to know somebody from a team
[07:51] <elfy> they are ever so good at communication ...
[07:52] <knome> as anybody
[07:53] <elfy> I think if you can get hold of mdke you might get somewhere - sorry I can't be of more help
[08:45] <smartboyhw> knome: I want to ask: Do you opt for removing the alternate images?
[08:48] <knome> smartboyhw, if you'd follow our mailing list, you would know it's discussed
[08:50] <smartboyhw> I know. I would opt for NOT having a alternate one, I will then do less testing:)
[08:51] <knome> nobody is expected to do desktop+alt even currently, it should be a community effort
[08:51] <smartboyhw> :)
[08:53] <Sysi> knome: did main-buntu already decide to drop it or is it still in discussion?
[08:53] <smartboyhw> Sysi: Main Ubuntu decided to drop it at Beta 1.
[08:53] <knome> Sysi, it is not official yet i think, but i'm sure they will take that motion
[08:54] <smartboyhw> I actually got PM with balloons about that, and he sure said that no alternate
[08:55] <Sysi> minimal seems to work well for "advanced installation" even if it takes quite a while of downloading
[08:56] <knome> Sysi, the 27MB? ;)
[08:57] <smartboyhw> knome: I think he meant the need to download packages when installing
[08:57] <Sysi> knome: xubuntu-desktop mostly
[08:57] <knome> smartboyhw, yes, i know. i was only kidding.
[08:58] <smartboyhw> knome: :)
[08:58] <knome> Sysi, i believe it doesn't take much more than downloading the ISO
[08:59] <Sysi> I'd guess so
[09:03] <mips1911> I only use the alternate images, i never download the desktop ones. WOuld be sad if it's dropped.
[09:04] <Sysi> mips1911: any reason for that?
[09:04] <smartboyhw> Well, I think that the alternate images install faster. I don't know why...
[09:04] <knome> mips1911, yeah, arguments
[09:04] <knome> smartboyhw, probably because it doesn't need to run the graphical installer and thus more resources can be used to installing
[09:05] <smartboyhw> Ah. Then I want the alternate images to stay now:)
[09:05] <knome> ...
[09:05] <Sysi> quantal daily installed very fast for me
[09:06] <knome> of course there is less and less difference with faster hardware
[09:06] <smartboyhw> Maybe I'm a bit inaccurate, I do it on VMs, though the same software:)
[09:07] <knome> smartboyhw, it sounds like you haven't thought the issue thorough. please do that before commenting.
[09:07] <smartboyhw> knome: Why?
[09:08] <Sysi> because otherly your opinion doesn't really have much value
[09:08] <smartboyhw> BTW, I don't understand why there is not LTSP when there's no alternate image. Does LTSP mean a LTS point release?
[09:08] <knome> smartboyhw, why would i think your opinion is worth listening if you clearly don't have a clue what you are talking about?
[09:08] <mips1911> I prefer to do a custom cli install as the desktop image has to much stuff in it I don't need. Once I've done a cli install I copy all the packages from the cd/image over to my /var/cache/apt and continue installing what I need. Should I ever have an emergency where I quickly have to do a full install I can also use the alternate image (I install in in a VM anyway to compare my install vs the full xubuntu one as well).  I could use the minimal install
[09:08] <mips1911> image but I have slow internet and it takes to long that way and should I ever need a full install in a emergency I'm screwed.
[09:09] <knome> smartboyhw, feel free to google too: http://www.ltsp.org/
[09:09] <mips1911> I've also had issues in the past where the desktop images refuse to boot on my pc.
[09:09] <Sysi> mips1911: you can have desktop image for emergencies
[09:09] <smartboyhw> Ah OK.
[09:09] <smartboyhw> Sorry.
[09:10] <knome> mips1911, well, that's one of the things we need to do. get more testing for the desktop images and fix ubiquity for more people
[09:10] <mips1911> Sysi, I'm also bandwidth limited so downloading another iso image is not cool for me.
[09:11] <Sysi> if mainline drops support for alternate, it will go sooner or later..
[09:11] <knome> another thing to consider is that since ubuntu drops alternate, maybe creating your own remastered disks will become easier
[09:13] <Sysi> I wonder what's main-ubuntu's take on LTSP
[09:13] <mips1911> Do you guys know if/when we will ever see delta deb support in ubuntu. This will help a lot for those with slow connections & limited bandwidth. I know there are some technical issues wrt to this but I'm seriously considering switching to fedora on the next release because they do delta rpms. i don't really want to but I might have to.
[09:14] <smartboyhw> knome: Then why on 12.04.1 will people do less testing on the alternate images? I did it in the last moment. You said to get more testing for the desktop images, but I think both need more testing:)
[09:14] <knome> Sysi, that's one of the reasons why i don't think it's official until b1
[09:14] <mips1911> I don't think the alternate images need more testing as they have never failed me where the desktop images have.
[09:15] <knome> smartboyhw, i don't understand.
[09:15] <Unit193> I've had an alternate fail.
[09:15] <smartboyhw> Unit193: Uh oh.
[09:15] <Sysi> knome: though when building something like ltsp-server, using minimal and building from it shouldn't be a problem
[09:16] <knome> mips1911, to be honest, the alternates break wayyy more often than desktops while developing. it's quite often that you will have a build from one or more days ago
[09:16] <smartboyhw> Also, a weird question: Other flavors of Ubuntu can build on 27th or 28th, but then why can't Xubuntu? It is stuck in 22nd. Ubuntu Studio is even worse, stuck in 21st:(
[09:16] <knome> Sysi, yeah, but what if you want to repeat that for, say, 50 pc's?
[09:16] <mips1911> knome, then I've been lucky
[09:16] <knome> smartboyhw, that's because the alternate images have been failing to build.
[09:17] <mips1911> Sysi, does the server image not pull in stuff by default desktop users don't need?
[09:17] <knome> mips1911, you can select what you want in the server installation.
[09:17] <mips1911> still even if i used the server image I would not be able to do a quick xubuntu desktop install.
[09:17] <knome> mips1911, and if you want ltsp... it's probably not too much of a problem
[09:17] <Sysi> mips1911: minimal sure doesn't
[09:18] <mips1911> Sysi, I don;t use minimal
[09:18] <mips1911> or I should rather say have not use minimal
[09:18] <Sysi> knome: why would you install 50 LTSP servers
[09:18] <knome> Sysi, if you need to? :]
[09:19] <knome> Sysi, ask stgraber... :P
[09:19] <Sysi> knome: I guess you could make local mirror and netinstall would be fast
[09:19] <mips1911> How hard would it be to implement a minimal installer for as part of the desktop installer image?
[09:20] <Sysi> knome: at my highschool we had fat-clients, they were installed and updated with netinstall and FAI, fully automatic install or something
[09:20] <mips1911> If you could do both from one cd that kill two birds with one stone but that still leaves out stuff like LVM
[09:21] <knome> mips1911, not pursueable by xubuntu team with these resources
[09:21] <knome> Sysi, looks like there are options for the LTSP, read the follow-up messages to steves
[09:22] <knome> Sysi, eg. click on "next message" at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-August/035675.html
[09:22] <knome> more insight on other issues too
[09:25] <Sysi> knome: I think your last link wasn't "by thread", I'm reading that now
[09:26] <knome> Sysi, mm
[09:28] <mr_pouit> xubuntu-core = xfce4 I guess (there's already this minimal metapackage)
[09:28] <mr_pouit> hey
[09:28] <ochosi> hey mr_pouit
[09:28] <knome> mr_pouit, and default-settings?
[09:29] <Unit193> Default settings, shimmer-themes.
[09:29] <knome> default settings would imply shimmer-themes, yeah
[09:30] <Sysi> does xfce4 depend on xorg? it doesn't include DM, how minimal are we talking about..
[09:30] <knome> Sysi, i'm 99.999999% certain it does. :)
[09:35] <Sysi> does dropping jockey finally make installing nvidia drivers with apt-get work?
[09:36] <knome> Sysi, jockey should now be integrated with software-properties-gtk. i don't know how, though
[09:36] <Unit193> Didn't work half as well for me.
[09:36] <knome> oki, new wallpaper folks
[09:36] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/quantal_wall/wall-draft-1-simons-size-3.png
[09:37] <ochosi> i like that it's still called "simons-size" :}
[09:37] <knome> and slideshow remake:
[09:37] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/quantal_blueprints/slideshow-remake.png
[09:37] <knome> ochosi, that could be it's name for the shimmer package :P
[09:37] <Unit193> Slideshow is nice, wallpaper is slightly bland, but people change that to whatever they want I'm sure.
[09:38] <knome> it's very simple for a change, and no theme in it really
[09:38] <Unit193> Too late this cycle, but "community wallpapers" going for another round?
[09:38] <knome> we simply have no space, so yeah
[09:38] <knome> let's see what the situation is with R
[09:38] <knome> or if we can get non-oversized for Q either :P
[09:39] <Unit193> Additional wallpapers/themes or other additions in the repo?
[09:39] <knome> Unit193, mmh, well, when we are planning R, can you add that item to the roadmap proposals so we don't forget it?
[09:40] <knome> Unit193, i don't have any reasons not to pursue that, but this cycle was too frantic for that
[09:40] <knome> i will need some new screenshots for the slideshow
[09:40] <knome> i'll ping you people when i know what
[09:40] <mips1911> It looks like in future I would have to download both the minimal & desktop images, do a minimal install and copy the packages from the desktop image over to my minimal image in order to do what I currently do with the alternate image. I'll just have to figure out how to extract the packages from the squashfs
[09:41] <knome> aptoncd?
[09:42] <Unit193> 7zip liked those, iirc.  Also, apt-offline?
[09:42] <mips1911> knome, can aptoncd access live images to extract packages?
[09:43] <knome> mips1911, i have no idea about that, but i believe you can create a cd with packages with that.
[09:44] <knome> mips1911, what you are doing is simply trying to avoid to try and fix ubiquity
[09:44] <Sysi> would it makse any sense to add minimal-installation option to ubiquity?
[09:44] <mips1911> knome, yes but it has to download them via the repos as far as i know. I'm trying to avoid that and I would no know all the packages I need.
[09:45] <Sysi> s/makse/make
[09:45] <Sysi> I've used that feature of alt-cd couple times as well
[09:45] <Unit193> Think http://ubottu.com/ljl/apt/ is broken.
[09:46] <mips1911> knome, i'm not a dev and don't have a clue so I would leave that up to you guys that know what you are doing
[09:46] <knome> Sysi, you should take that to ubuntu, again xubuntu doesn't have the manpower to maintain
[09:46] <Sysi> yeah
[09:47] <knome> i don't think it's going to happen, but there might be a very slim chance of it happening
[09:47] <knome> but why would they add it to desktop if it's failing on alt?
[10:00] <mips1911> Grr, skip my previous idea. I just realised the desktop image does not contain and .deb files
[10:02] <Unit193> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dylanmccall/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/preview/xubuntu/slides/index.html Anyway to get that to pull from another bzr branch?
[10:04] <knome> hmm?
[10:04] <knome> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubiquity-slideshow/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/html
[10:05] <knome> i haven't pushed the new slideshow yet, though
[10:06] <Unit193> Yeah, was under the impression that page was pulling info directly, or something weird.
[10:07] <knome> heh
[10:07] <knome> i've no idea
[10:07] <knome> probably not
[10:07] <knome> at least from my pc... >:)
[10:34] <mr_pouit> micahg: (for the record, check #u-devel a few mins ago) it seems we'll have to port indicator-messages back to gtk2, since the old gtk2 version won't work anymore
[11:04] <Sysi> knome: about new wallpaper, what if circles of bottom right were a bit bigger and maybe higher?
[11:04] <knome> Sysi, possible
[11:06] <Sysi> it interferes with focusing to bottom panel a bit now
[11:06] <knome> yeah, we'll need to fix that
[11:07] <Sysi> well, it works with default panel layout or panel on top but I think having panel on bottom is quite popular too
[11:08] <Sysi> (and it just might look better, maybe give it a shot)
[11:09] <knome> sure
[11:22] <amerigena> Email said to join #xubuntu-devel and post if I wanted to contribute to the Docbook effort.
[11:23] <elfy> I'd get ready for knome to snatch your hand off then :)
[11:24] <amerigena> OK.
[11:24] <Unit193> You know docbooks?
[11:25] <amerigena> No. But the email stipulated that experience wasn't strictly necessary.
[11:26] <amerigena> It's OK if you don't know anything
[11:26] <amerigena> about Docbook. Just come hang around and we'll see what we can do.
[11:27] <Unit193> Sure, was just asking until knome shows up and says something.
[11:28] <knome> something
[11:28] <knome> amerigena, do you know docbook already?
[11:28] <amerigena> Nope.
[11:28] <amerigena> Don't.
[11:29] <Unit193> knome: Missed the period, and scrollback. ;)
[11:29] <knome> amerigena, familiar with bzr?
[11:30] <amerigena> Somewhat.
[11:30] <knome> okay, get a copy of our docs: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+source/xubuntu-docs
[11:31] <knome> 'bzr branch lp:ubuntu/xubuntu-docs' that is
[11:31] <knome> i don't know docbook myself, so i don't know where to start
[11:31] <knome> i do know something though
[11:33] <knome> you will need docbook, docbook-utils and gnome-doc-utils to be able to build the documentation.
[11:33] <knome> at least.
[11:34] <knome> we don't plan to change the template much (only stylesheets) this release, so what we would need is somebody who is familiar enough with the docs to be able to, simply (or not), drop in new text
[11:34] <amerigena> OK.
[11:34] <amerigena> exit
[11:34] <knome> i believe that is rather trivial, but i really don't have time myself to look at it, at least not now
[11:35] <knome> the doc string freeze is on Sep 20, so things need do happen before that
[11:35] <knome> if you hang around this channel, you will get guidance and pointers on what we need
[11:35] <amerigena> OK/
[11:35] <amerigena> I got a copy of the documentation, and will look at it this afternoon.
[11:35] <knome> and finally, don't feel obliged to do more than you can. if you feel you've had, or start having enough, just tell us
[11:36] <knome> we will try to help as much as we can
[11:36] <knome> but we simply lack hands to do everything :)
[11:40] <amerigena> Understood. Looking forward to (hopefully) being one of those helping hands.
[11:41] <knome> somebody has Q installed?
[11:42] <Unit193> Kind of.
[11:42] <smartboyhw> No.
[11:42] <knome> what does that mean?
[11:42] <knome> smartboyhw, i don't need the information you don't
[12:54] <micahg> mr_pouit: ted told me that they weren't going to break it :(
[12:55] <ochosi> yeah, sucks pretty bad imo
[12:55] <ochosi> especially when there's so little time to think about good alternatives
[12:57] <mr_pouit> tbh I think they'll drop gtk2 support of libindicat* in R
[12:57] <mr_pouit> and xfce will still be gtk2
[12:58] <micahg> mr_pouit: has there been any progress in porting the panel to gtk3 upstream?
[12:58] <mr_pouit> no
[13:00] <micahg> :(
[13:10] <GridCube> there seems to be a huge bunch of problems comming on :/
[13:11] <GridCube> with mainbuntu choosing to move on to gtk3 and all that
[13:11] <Unit193> Quite.
[13:12] <GridCube> I think that the decision to drop alternate should be made soon, it will save lots of time on people who actually know how to do stuff
[13:12] <knome> GridCube, we will make it before beta1, aka thursday
[13:13] <GridCube> I'll send a mail to the respect now
[13:19] <Sysi> do 4.10 action buttons need xscreensaver for user-switching? (is dropping xscreensaver discussion done?)
[13:19] <knome> Sysi, we won't drop it now
[13:31] <knome> bbl
[16:40] <elfy> anyone know if I should expect to see nvidia drivers in the additional drivers software-centre tab?
[16:41] <holstein> elfy: usually a seperate popup
[16:41] <bluesabre> elfy, I didn't see them in there in 12.10
[16:41] <elfy> holstein: not in 12.10 holstein
[16:41] <bluesabre> I don't think they build right now
[16:41] <holstein> if you search nvidia, you'll see it, but that doesnt mean you need it.. i usually refer to the wiki
[16:41] <elfy> bluesabre: aah ok - they went walkabout a while ago :)
[16:42] <elfy> holstein: I know I can find it - was thinking about others expecting to find it in add drivers - cos they will :)
[19:15] <bluesabre> knome: Do we still support/recommend exaile?  http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Music
[19:19] <knome> bluesabre, no. gmb is the one for that
[19:20] <bluesabre> I thought so
[19:20] <bluesabre> Cleanup time :D
[19:20] <knome> y
[19:20] <bluesabre> I just thought it was odd that we still mention it in our offline doc
[19:20] <knome> yeah, it's not updated yet
[19:21] <knome> (the section)
[19:21] <bluesabre> I'll work on it for a bit
[19:22] <knome> thanks, every bit counts
[20:00] <micahg> mr_pouit: I'm going to temporarily drop xfce4-indicator and the gtk2 indicator stuff from the seeds until we get this sorted unless you have a better idea (might not happen until tomorrow)
[20:08] <knome> hey micahg
[20:09] <micahg> hi knome
[20:09] <knome> UIF prepping is looking surprisingly good
[20:15] <knome> Sysi, ?
[20:34] <knome> hmm, there some weird movement of mouse in quantal virtualbxo install
[22:48] <pleia2> hey amerigena
[22:48] <amerigena> hello
[22:48] <pleia2> we do still need folks pitching in on rewrites on the wiki :)
[22:49] <amerigena> OK. So how do I do it? Bzr was over my head.
[22:49] <pleia2> the instructions here are a good start: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-August/008343.html
[22:50] <pleia2> for now we're just editing pages on http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12/10
[22:50] <pleia2> err
[22:50] <pleia2> http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10
[22:50] <pleia2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-August/008392.html explains exactly where we are, and what strikethrough, bold and such mean
[22:57]  * pleia2 heads off to an appointment
[23:14] <mr_pouit> micahg: yes, please, it won't be ready at least until UIF anyway :/