[20:07] <sidi> I have a LP build log for a custom GTK package for my PPA, where the build bot refuses to install deps. Why is that? It says sbuild-build-depends-gtk+3.0-dummy : Depends: libzeitgeist-1.0-1 (>= 0.8) but it is not going to be installed
[20:08] <teward> sidi: stupid question, but the build, what version does it target (of Ubuntu)
[20:08] <cjwatson> sidi: What PPA?
[20:08] <teward> and what PPA :)
[20:08] <cjwatson> A link to the build would be ideal.
[20:08] <teward> ^ that
[20:08] <teward> cjwatson: first guess from me was a PPA dependencies issue, but i may be wrong :)
[20:09] <cjwatson> That message means that the build-dependency in question is uninstallable in that context, but it needs more investigation to determine why that is.
[20:09] <sidi> https://code.launchpad.net/~ucl-cs-study-devs/+archive/ubuntu/multitasking-study
[20:09] <teward> mmm
[20:09] <sidi> teward, cjwatson  thats the build log: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/208514156/buildlog_ubuntu-vivid-amd64.gtk%2B3.0_3.14.13-0ubuntu1ppa3_BUILDING.txt.gz
[20:09] <sidi> i'm currently updating the packages (had lots that didnt build before but didnt have time to fix them, so only gtk3's worth looking at right now)
[20:10] <cjwatson> sidi: Well, the first question would be why did you add a build-dependency on a specific *runtime* library package?
[20:10] <cjwatson> That build-dependency isn't in Ubuntu's gtk+3.0 source package.
[20:11] <sidi> cjwatson, because i added it in my code
[20:11] <cjwatson> sidi: You would normally build-depend on the development package, not the runtime, though.
[20:11] <sidi> cjwatson, my package logs specific API calls using libzeitgeist, hence the dep
[20:11] <sidi> cjwatson, oh crap im an idiot
[20:12] <cjwatson> Now, that won't actually solve this issue, but build-depending on a runtime is usually a bug except in specialised cases.
[20:12]  * sidi is on Arch, forgot about -dev
[20:12] <cjwatson> (The development package will also be uninstallable if the runtime is, normally.)
[20:12] <sidi> So, is it correct to add a Build-Depend on libzeitgeist-1.0-dev on the libtgtk package, as well as a Depend on libzeitgeist-1.0-1 for what I want to do?
[20:13] <cjwatson> You don't normally need to add manual Depends for this.  ${shlibs:Depends} will already be there and will handle that for you.
[20:13] <cjwatson> All you need is a Build-Depends: foo-dev in the source package.
[20:13] <cjwatson> Anyway, let me set up a quick chdist instance to investigate this.
[20:14] <sidi> Hm, I'm happy to try with the proper dep first so i dont waste your time
[20:14] <cjwatson> Like I say, I know it won't solve this issue.
[20:14] <cjwatson> So it won't waste my time, although you should fix the bug anyway since your package will just fail to build regardless otherwise (as it won't have the right #includes)
[20:18] <cjwatson> Oh, right, I see
[20:18] <cjwatson> sidi: You've specified (>= 0.8) - the newest version of that package in vivid (and indeed anywhere in Ubuntu) is 0.3.18-1ubuntu2
[20:18] <sidi> yikes
[20:18] <cjwatson> Which is not greater than 0.8
[20:18] <sidi> The API is 0.8.3 afair
[20:19] <sidi> Fixed this too, thanks
[20:19] <sidi> I expected the package version to follow the API version, I was wrong :-)
[20:30] <sidi> Ironically, the updated package gets rejected with "File gtk+3.0_3.14.13-0ubuntu1ppa3.debian.tar.xz already exists in Multitasking Study PPA, but uploaded version has different contents.".
[20:32] <sidi> Somewhat the warning at the end of https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Deleting makes it clearer what I should have done.
[20:32] <cjwatson> sidi: You must change the version to one you haven't used before.
[20:32] <cjwatson> Reusing versions is bad and wrong.
[20:33] <cjwatson> But there are lots of integers, so you can bump the final 3 to 4.
[20:33] <sidi> cjwatson, that is what i'm doing right now. I had not expected that I would need to change the version for a debian/ change especially as the package had zero users
[20:34] <sidi> but I understand why that was incorrect
[20:34] <cjwatson> The bit after the final "-" is specifically for packaging changes.
[20:34] <sidi> maybe "forgetting to update the package version number" could be one of the enumerated reasons for the error message on the help page, cjwatson ?
[20:34] <sidi> for silly people like me :-)
[20:36] <cjwatson> sidi: I've clarified it.
[20:39] <sidi> cjwatson, thanks for your help!
[20:39] <sidi> cjwatson, do you have a paypal for beer money? :-)
[20:42] <cjwatson> Afraid not :)
[20:42] <cjwatson> Thanks is enough, it's my job (well, admittedly not on Sundays - time to go and play board games with my wife)
[20:43] <sidi> have a good evening then


[06:19] <dpm> good morning all
[08:09] <RawChid> Good morning!
[09:48] <trijntje> Hi all, what is the corresponding gnome version number for programs in oneiric?
[09:48] <trijntje> Are we using development, which would be 3.2?
[09:55] <kelemengabor> trijntje: I think so, there are several gnome packages with version 3.1.x
[09:58] <trijntje> kelemengabor: ok, thanks. Its always hard to compare these things using just numer of strings in a package
[14:27] <serfus> OMG 61 bugs handled by Gabor
[14:56] <kaltxi> Hey, I'm just really checking I've done everything I need to and what the next steps will be https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+question/166319


[16:18] <dartzon> Hello everybody
[16:19] <dartzon> Anyone knows why in Ubuntu 18.04, linking with an .so uses runpath instead of rpath? Thanks


[08:52] <urulama> morning, frankban
[08:52] <frankban> hi urulama
[08:53] <urulama> regarding my comment on support for start/end in /meta/stats, i guess i mixed it with /stats/counter
[08:53] <urulama> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1TgRA7jW_mmXoKH3JiwBbtPvQu7WiM6XMrz1wSrhTMXw/edit#bookmark=id.9k72szsuel9z
[08:54] <urulama> which is probably the endpoint for the results for web (charm broswer), like downlaods in the last 7 days, 30 days, half year, all time ...
[09:02] <frankban> urulama: yeah, so the stats counter already works for some of that
[09:06] <urulama> frankban: yes, great side-effect :)
[11:48] <frankban> urulama: do we really want to allow deletion of partial ids?
[11:48] <urulama> frankban: deletion?
[11:48] <frankban> urulama: yes, DELETE archive
[11:49] <frankban> This deletes the given charm or bundle with the given id. If the id does not mention a specific series or revision, all the series and revisions of the given id are deleted.
[11:49] <urulama> frankban: good point.
[11:50] <urulama> frankban: it does make sense from the API point of view. But maybe it is best to delete only concrete api and request a user to do /expand-id and iterate on all
[11:51] <urulama> s/concrete api/concrete charm
[11:52] <urulama> frankban: maybe we could do two phase process. delete on charm id just removes a charm from being available, but not from the store. and one needs to "confirm" later to remove all "deleted" charms from the store permanently?
[11:52] <frankban> urulama: +1
[11:54] <frankban> urulama: uhm, I'd be not inclined to add state to the server.
[11:55] <frankban> urulama: +1 on having to specify a fully qualified url, but I'd be -1 on the two steps process: it complicates the server and also the client
[11:55] <urulama> frankban: ok. then let's just do fully qualified url part (gonna change the docs)
[11:55] <frankban> urulama: thank you
[12:15] <urulama> frankban: working on DEL part of archive?
[12:17] <frankban> urulama: yes
[12:17] <frankban> urulama: creating a card
[12:23] <urulama> frankban: tnx
[12:31]  * urulama cooks lunch
[12:58] <bac> jujugui: the internet man is on his way.  i may be going on and off line a bit in the next hour as he attempts to fix the problem.
[13:08] <urulama> bac: good luck
[13:09] <urulama> bac: i found out yesterday, that 100/10 line here costs only 5eur more then my current 10/10 ... will go upgrade soon
[13:09] <urulama> (per month)
[13:42] <jrwren_> frankban: updated https://code.launchpad.net/~evarlast/juju-quickstart/which-juju/+merge/227238 and https://codereview.appspot.com/132770043
[13:42] <frankban> jrwren_: cool
[13:43] <frankban> jrwren_: why there is no Delta from patch set in reitveld?
[13:43] <frankban> jrwren_: how do you update the mp on reitveld?
[13:43]  * jrwren_ looks.
[13:43] <jrwren_> frankban: lbox propse
[13:43] <frankban> jrwren_: uhm, that's what we are supposed to do, weird...
[13:44] <frankban> jrwren_: ok, I'll take a look ASAP
[13:47] <hatch> morning all
[13:47] <jrwren_> morning hatch and all
[13:47] <hatch> jrwren_:  so I watched some of those starcraft games this weekend, those guys are a little nuts
[13:47] <hatch> haha
[13:48] <hatch> I'd probably die in their scouting runs :P
[13:48] <jrwren_> hatch: you watched live stream? did you see me in the crowd? :)
[13:48] <hatch> I did, but no I didn't see you, the crowd was really dark and the feed was actually quite poor quality
[13:49] <jrwren_> hatch: Awesome. I hope you enjoyed it. It was very fun to be there live.
[13:49] <hatch> yeah I bet, I couldn't stop laughing at the start "aww they think they are real sports people"
[13:49] <hatch> lol
[13:50] <jrwren_> hatch: They have higher revenue than the NHL.
[13:50] <hatch> well, maybe the league but not the players :)
[13:50] <jrwren_> hatch: truth!
[13:50] <hatch> watching some talk was like bringing be back to highschool haha
[13:51] <jrwren_> hatch: how so?
[13:51] <hatch> oh, well they were like 17
[13:51] <hatch> so they talked like they were 17 haha
[13:51] <hatch> no doubt about the skills though
[13:51] <jrwren_> hatch: ha! Yes. A lot of the players are very young.
[13:52] <hatch> It seems to be a very balanced game, even if one screwed up earlier in the game that wasn't a sure thing that they were going to lose
[13:52] <hatch> it was possible to come back sometimes
[13:52] <hatch> and the best-of-three was a good idea
[13:54] <jrwren_> yup.
[13:55] <hatch> they need to have an old-person league
[13:55] <hatch> haha
[13:56] <hatch> or maybe a minimum salary so that old people with families can compete :D
[13:56] <hatch> kids don't have any money, if they want to get real money intot he sport they need adult competitors :)
[13:59] <urulama> frankban: i'll take a look at the PR right after the call
[13:59] <frankban> urulama: cool, I am updating it with another test
[14:03] <frankban> urulama, jrwren_ : https://github.com/juju/charmstore/pull/80 is now ready for review
[14:03] <jrwren_> hatch: I am pretty sure they know what they are doing, but I do wish for an old person league so I can play ;)
[14:11] <hatch> jcsackett: you in yet? Can you kick ci and then kill the node server?
[14:11] <jcsackett> hatch: as in restart the jenkins service?
[14:11] <jcsackett> sure.
[14:12] <jcsackett> hatch: though i know nothing of a node server.
[14:14] <hatch> jcsackett:  when you kill the running tests in CI you then need to ssh into the machine and do a ps for the node server
[14:14] <hatch> kill it
[14:14] <hatch> then the tests will run again
[14:14] <hatch> if you don't it'll just give an ERRADDRINUSE error
[14:15] <jcsackett> hatch: it would appear restarting the jenkins process handles that; as there's no node in ps output.
[14:15] <hatch> oh interesting
[14:16] <jcsackett> hatch: i'm starting a build manually to make sure things can pass (or fail for the right reasons)
[14:16] <hatch> I triggered another build of huws branch
[14:16] <hatch> oh hahah
[14:16] <jcsackett> nm, i see your build. :0
[14:16]  * hatch is speedy this am
[14:17] <hatch> it must have been kiting yesterday - 9C 35KM winds and pooooooouuuring rain
[14:17] <hatch> set up was bruuuuuuutal
[14:18] <jcsackett> ...that's interesting, your build died almost instantly, hatch. i've started another--i think it might have been a bad sha.
[14:19] <hatch> ohh maybe
[14:19] <jcsackett> hrm.
[14:19] <jcsackett> and this one died another way. fun.
[14:19] <hatch> jcsackett:  looks like npm issues
[14:20] <hatch> to the twitters!!!!
[14:20] <jcsackett> yup.
[14:21] <hatch> hmm no reports of it being down
[14:27] <jcsackett> i suspect it's a problem with CI.
[14:27] <jcsackett> largely b/c i don't like jenkins.
[14:29] <jcsackett> or, more correctly, largely b/c jenkins doesn't like me. :p
[14:29] <hatch> lol is it REALLY jenkins fault? Or is it that Jenkins is so magical you have no idea what broke? :)
[14:29] <jcsackett> jenkins isn't really magical; it's just awkward.
[14:29] <jcsackett> but it's so awkward i have no idea what's broken.
[14:31] <hatch> haha true
[14:31] <hatch> jrwren_: highschool doesn't start at 8:30 there?
[14:32] <rick_h_> morning party people
[14:32] <jrwren_> hatch: quite often 7:30ish
[14:32] <hatch> mornin mr vacation man
[14:33] <hatch> jrwren_:  that's just nuts! elementary is 9 and hs is 8:30 here
[14:33] <urulama> rick_h_: :) how's it going?
[14:33] <jrwren_> hatch: Canada is better than the US in almost every aspect.
[14:33] <hatch> haha, well education is handled at the provincial level......buuuuut I'll take it!!!
[14:34] <rick_h_> hatch: howdy, want to do me a favor? I didn't get the luca bugs turned to cards before I left
[14:34] <rick_h_> hatch: can you create those, with gui class of service, etc today please?
[14:34] <hatch> rick_h_:  sure
[14:34] <rick_h_> hatch: ty much
[14:34] <hatch> now go vacate
[14:34] <hatch> vacation?
[14:34] <hatch> vacationation?
[14:34] <hatch> not sure what the act of vacationing is
[14:34] <rick_h_> hatch: sore, very sore.
[14:34] <hatch> rough plane ride?
[14:34] <rick_h_> the whole walk bus carry a 4yr thing is getting long
[14:34] <rick_h_> naw, just putzing around SF
[14:34] <rick_h_> google and the bus drivers seem to like to disagree on how to get somewhere
[14:34] <hatch> oh haha
[14:35] <hatch> yeah 4y/o are getting big
[14:35] <hatch> :)
[14:35] <rick_h_> yea, he gets tired by the EOD makes carrying a 40# lump a bit exhausting to my own day lol
[14:36] <rick_h_> but having fun, beautiful weather. Did the bay boat tour thing yesterday
[14:36] <hatch> oh nice - get some good pics?
[14:36] <rick_h_> we'll see, took a ton.
[14:37] <hatch> awesome
[14:37] <hatch> where to today?
[14:37] <frankban> jrwren_: review done
[14:38] <jrwren_> frankban: thanks.
[14:38] <rick_h_> hatch: Cal acadamey of science, japanese tea gardens, and hoping to hit up a fishing pier down by the golden gate for some sunset pics
[14:39] <hatch> more walkin!
[14:39] <hatch> maybe you can get the kit some rollerskates :)
[14:39] <hatch> kid*
[14:39] <rick_h_> lol
[14:39] <rick_h_> hopefully he grows some strong leg muscles :P
[14:40] <hatch> haha that's also an option
[14:40] <hatch> although probably not nearly as entertaining
[14:40] <hatch> friends of ours are teaching their daughter how to rollerblade
[14:41] <hatch> holy is that funny :) of course she can't see us laugh :D
[14:41] <rick_h_> there you go, he sees kids with a scooter and wants one
[14:41] <rick_h_> I need to see if a store around here has one of those
[14:41] <hatch> oh yeah, those are STILL big
[14:41] <rick_h_> then again I might end up carrying a scooter and a boy back to the apt
[14:41] <hatch> who would have thought...
[14:41] <hatch> hahaha
[14:46] <jcsackett> hatch: so, i ran manually via ssh, and got the npm erradinuse thing this time, but ps show's no node--is it a different process?
[14:47] <hatch> ^ rick_h_ CI is borked again.....wasn't it the node process that was still running?
[14:48] <jrwren_> I need one more OK: https://codereview.appspot.com/132770043/
[14:48] <rick_h_> hatch: it'll either be a python or .sh process that starts the node one
[14:48] <hatch> jcsackett: ^
[14:49] <jcsackett> dig.
[14:49] <jcsackett> thanks.
[14:49] <rick_h_> jenkins  50559  0.0  0.1  41348  8164 ?        S    Aug22   0:00 python ../bin/http_server.py 8888
[14:49] <rick_h_> jcsackett: hatch often it's more clean to | grep jenkins
[14:51] <jcsackett> rick_h_: yeah, found it, killed it. thanks.
[14:53] <hatch> cool thanks
[14:53] <jcsackett> whoo! looks like tests might be running. i'll try restarting a build in a moment.
[14:56] <hatch> jujugui call in 5 kanban it up!
[14:56] <hatch> jcsackett: Makyo I see you guys have both interacted with this bug - I think it's resolved? https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1340666
[14:56] <mup> Bug #1340666: Clicking the destroy icon does not destroy the machine or container <juju-gui:Triaged by makyo> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1340666>
[14:57] <jcsackett> hatch: no idea if it's fix released, but Makyo was definitely working on it weeks ago, and it sure seems like the trash icon deletes things on develop.
[14:58] <jcsackett> hatch: pretty sure its safe to mark as fix committed
[14:58] <hatch> thanks
[14:59] <hatch> jujugui call now
[15:01] <hatch> hey huwshimi
[15:08] <bac> i forgot to point out my new glasses!  you are all crisper today.
[15:08] <jcsackett> bac: nice. :)
[15:09] <jcsackett> bac: are they also warby parker?
[15:09] <bac> hey hatch how was my audio?  internet fixer came today
[15:09] <hatch> jujugui sorry I forgot to mention I created cards for all of lucas bugs last week so there are a lot of cards in project 1 - some can be combined, lemme know if you have any questions about them
[15:09] <bac> jcsackett: no, another boutique i found:  costco
[15:09] <hatch> bac:  it was actually pretty good
[15:09] <bac> jcsackett: they refused to use my old frames.  :(
[15:09] <frankban> urulama: do we have a card for logging in the charmstore?
[15:10] <bac> jcsackett: and i had the "dr nick" of opticians do the exam.  pony tail and everything.
[15:10] <urulama> frankban: no
[15:11] <frankban> urulama: ok do you want me to create one?
[15:11] <urulama> frankban: we discussed it a bit with Roger, as we want to log the events in such a way, that they can be easily processed, even map-reduce style
[15:11] <bac> hatch: they replaced the ethernet connector that plugs into the antenna. it is a) PoE and 2) exposed to the elements.  they should just proactively replace them every six months.
[15:11] <urulama> frankban: so, there's no card for that, yet
[15:11] <hatch> bac:  heh yeah maybe you could grab a few and do it yourself :) or pre-schedule the replacements
[15:11] <urulama> frankban: on what level did you mean to do it?
[15:12] <frankban> urulama: I am not tackling that now, but my branch includes a TODO (add logs), so I must ensure a card at least exists for logging
[15:12] <jcsackett> so, much as "bad wolf" has become the default error message for tests, "yelling goats" should be our new random string.
[15:12] <urulama> frankban: aaa, the new rules ;D
[15:13] <urulama> frankban: i'll put one on deck
[15:13] <frankban> urulama: thanks!
[15:13] <bac> hatch: for the price of a set of crimpers that isn't a bad idea
[15:15] <hatch> bac:  I also wonder if they have 'weather proof' ones
[15:15] <hatch> like maybe putting some of that heat-shrink-wrap stuff over it
[15:37] <hatch> lazyPower: I upgraded the Ghost version in my charm this weekend and started looking into testing - can you remind me of what tests I'd need to get it promulgated in trusty?
[15:39] <kadams54> jujugui: hey all, sorry I missed standup today.
[15:39] <bac> jrwren_: second review on your quickstart branch.  you should be good to go now.
[15:39] <hatch> it's ok, you now owe us all coffee and doughnuts
[15:39] <hatch> :P
[15:40] <kadams54> Count on it.
[15:40] <hatch> kadams54:  :P Did you have anything to note about your branch?
[15:40] <kadams54> I'll steal them from the hotel's breakfast at the next sprint.
[15:40] <kadams54> ;-)
[15:40] <hatch> lol
[15:40] <jrwren_> bac: Thank you.
[15:41] <kadams54> hatch: No, not really. I spent most of my day on Friday working to get the last piece of the unplaced units work landed.
[15:41] <hatch> ok cool
[15:41] <kadams54> hatch: Which it did. And that makes me very happy. But now it's time to forge on and get this MV stuff wrapped up :-)
[15:43] <hatch> kadams54:  if you look at the kanban I created cards for all of luca's bugs last week, so there is a ton to choose from, some can be combined as well so if you are looking for something take a peek at the red ones :)
[15:44] <kadams54> Excellent :-)
[15:50] <urulama> frankban: done the PR review, had some comments, but when resolved, LGTM! Tnx.
[15:50] <frankban> urulama: thanks
[16:06] <hatch> oo mongo is getting document level locking
[16:06] <hatch> that'll be nice
[16:07] <hatch> first step to transactions :)
[16:08] <frankban> urulama: I am thinking about your suggestion to delete the blob first and the entity after
[16:09] <frankban> urulama: I made it like that because from the user perspective it's better to have a 404 (no entity) rather than an entity found and then a weird error because the blob is not there
[16:11] <urulama> frankban: ah ... nevermind the comment, the code is correct. i somehow mixed referece=blob name, enitty=blob in my mind :)
[16:12] <urulama> frankban: removing the comment
[16:19] <frankban> urulama: thanks
[16:32] <urulama> jujugui: EOD for me. have a good day
[16:32] <frankban> good night urulama
[16:33] <hatch> night urulama
[16:33] <urulama> btw, anyone watched Guardians of the Galaxy or Lucy? can't decide which one to go to watch today (both look good for some brain-shut-down time) :D
[16:34] <kadams54> urulama: Guardians, for sure.
[16:35] <urulama> kadams54: tnx, Guardians it is :)
[16:39] <hatch> urulama:  heard great things about gotg, let me know :)
[16:39] <urulama> hatch: sure thing
[16:39] <urulama> A fresh advice from my friend: don't carry the kid on your shoulders when he's having an ice cream :D :D
[16:41] <hatch> haha
[16:51] <jrwren_> What shall I do when make test runs fine for me, but lbox submit runs make test and it fails? It seems we have different source files.
[16:51] <hatch> jrwren_:  be sure you update your local source with the remote source
[16:52] <hatch> that used to happen to me when the remote source and my source had diverged so the tests were no longer valid
[16:52] <hatch> (not sure if that's the case here)
[16:53] <jrwren_> i'll bzr pull upstream then.
[16:57] <jrwren_> thanks hatch
[16:57] <hatch> worked?
[16:57] <jrwren_> yes
[17:00] <kadams54> jrwren_: that's good, because my suggestion was gonna be to throw something out the window.
[17:00] <hatch> jrwren_:  great :) glad to help
[17:08] <hatch> mbruzek: are you using the Ghost charm for your blog?
[17:11] <lazyPower> hatch: he sure is :)
[17:11] <hatch> awesome - ok now that people are actually using it, I'll put some more effort into it haha
[17:11] <hatch> lazyPower: did you see my previous q about the tests?
[17:11] <lazyPower> hatch: and re: your question this morning - bare minimum of unit tests, but we'd like to see amulet tests (you can choose one or the other depending on yoru skill level.)
[17:12] <hatch> there isn't really a ton of code, I think i'll just go for amulet tests
[17:12] <lazyPower> hatch: i'll ping you later this week about it, but i'm going to be moving my ghost blog from an ansible deployment to the juju charm, and document the process of how easy it was to get moving with juju to migrate a ghost blog.
[17:12] <hatch> tbh I'm not entirely sure how to unit test shell-outs heh
[17:12] <lazyPower> so expect some more heat around your charm.
[17:12] <lazyPower> you cant.
[17:13] <hatch> great (about using the charm)
[17:13] <lazyPower> system calls can be stubbed if you're reading response data from the call
[17:13] <hatch> boo (about unit testing shell-outs)
[17:13] <lazyPower> otherwise, you're just assuming it happened and gave a zero return code. that's about it.
[17:13] <hatch> yeah - the code wasn't written with testing in mind so I may have to do some refactoring
[17:13] <hatch> but i'll start with the amulet tests
[17:13] <hatch> integration tests are the most important
[17:13] <hatch> proving that it actually works
[17:13] <lazyPower> that's an excellent place to get moving. I'm looking forward to that merge landing in the queue
[17:14] <lazyPower> if you want any help/pointers on amulet, feel free to reach out. mbruzek is also an amulet master
[17:14] <hatch> the version in my gh repo is running ghost 5.0 btw
[17:14] <hatch> er
[17:14] <hatch> 0.5.0
[17:14] <lazyPower> i'm a -stable kinda guy. I use whats in the charm store unless i *really* need something else, and then i deploy from personal namespace. I'm getting away from doing local charm deployment as much as possible
[17:14] <lazyPower> the overhead of remembering to upgrade charms locally is something I can't be asked to do
[17:15] <hatch> haha np - I'll try and get on those tests quickly
[17:15] <hatch> probably wont be until wednesday though
[17:15] <lazyPower> no rush :)
[17:15] <lazyPower> I may wait until you land your amulet tests before id o the migration so i can highlight the fact its a tested charm
[17:15] <lazyPower> and make sure you ping whomever does your review to update the quality info on ghost, that'll give you another star on quality
[17:15] <lazyPower> we *should* be doing that anyway, but i typically forget :(
[17:16] <hatch> sure that's fine
[17:48] <mbruzek> Hey hatch just got back from lunch catching up on the scroll back.  I AM using ghost and I CAN help you with amulet.
[17:59] <hatch> mbruzek:  I was asking specifically about the ghost charm :) because I wrote it and wasn't going to put a ton of time into it until others were using it :)
[17:59] <mbruzek> hatch, I am using the ghost charm.
[18:00] <hatch> excellent - well please file any bugs or feature requests on the GH repo :)
[18:00] <hatch> https://github.com/hatched/ghost-charm
[18:00] <mbruzek> GH ?  Not Bazzar ?
[18:01] <hatch> the gh repo is the source of truth, lp is just a compile-to target :)
[18:01] <hatch> mbruzek:  so how do you have your env set up? Are you using mysql/apache?
[18:01] <mbruzek> roger that.
[18:01] <mbruzek> Actually no.
[18:02] <mbruzek> don't get mad
[18:02] <mbruzek> But I am using haproxy
[18:02] <mbruzek> I realize this is not a way to do it in production.
[18:03] <mbruzek> But I am using the haproxy charm and ghost charm to run my blog
[18:03] <hatch> that's fine :)
[18:03] <hatch> haproxy works pretty well
[18:03] <hatch> you should look into using mysql though
[18:04] <mbruzek> why?  sqlite not going to keep up?
[18:04] <hatch> if you're just using the built in sqlite db, you'll have to manually transfer everything if you ever upgrade the charm
[18:04] <hatch> harder to do backups...etc
[18:05] <mbruzek> hatch, I had a question about the configuration.  When I tried to set the "host" to the actual IP address my blog goes dark.
[18:06] <hatch> mbruzek:  yeah typically you want to just leave it at <IP_ADDRESS> and let the image handle it
[18:06] <hatch> tbh I can't think of a time when you'd want to specify the ip
[18:06] <mbruzek> hatch OK that is what it is set to now
[18:06] <hatch> but maybe if you were running some fancy network set up and you wanted it to use a specific ip
[18:07] <hatch> are you running haproxy and ghost on the same machine?
[18:07] <mbruzek> hatch yes.
[18:07] <mbruzek> juju deploy cs:precise/haproxy --to 0
[18:08] <mbruzek> juju deploy cs:precise/ghost --to 0
[18:08] <mbruzek> juju add-relation ghost haproxy
[18:08] <mbruzek> It was as simple as those three commands.
[18:08] <mbruzek> hatch, I will look at adding mysql.
[18:09] <hatch> mbruzek: awesome - yeah just curious really :)
[18:09] <hatch> mbruzek: so if you switch to mysql you'll have to manually port the posts over
[18:10] <hatch> (sorry) that's not done in the charm yet
[18:10] <mbruzek> Oh darn, all 2 of my blog postings
[18:11] <hatch> haha - mbruzek I am very interested in that procedure though - I'm sure others will need to do the same
[18:11] <hatch> keeping the blog post id's the same (if it doesn't automatically)
[18:11] <hatch> etc
[18:11] <hatch> I'd even like to include it in the readme if it's small enough, or an a supplementary file in the charm even
[18:11] <hatch> OR
[18:11] <hatch> if it's really easy, PR's accepted :P
[18:12] <hatch> (the charm is in javascript) :D
[18:12]  * mbruzek shivers
[18:14] <hatch> hah yeah it was a challenge in some places but it's written in JS because Ghost is a js project
[18:14] <mbruzek> understood.
[18:53] <hatch> evening fabrice
[18:53] <fabrice> evening !
[18:55] <Makyo> jujugui need some reviews/QA (especially QA) on clearing ECS changes  https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/508
[19:00] <hatch> Makyo:  I'll take one
[19:00] <hatch> got to grab some lunch first
[19:00] <Makyo> Sure
[19:11] <kadams54> Makyo: working on my own PR but as soon as I wrap that up I'll dive into the QA queue.
[19:26] <kadams54> guihelp: my own PR for QA: https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/509
[20:05] <hatch> jcsackett:  I found an easier way to accomplish what I needed https://github.com/hatched/juju-gui/commit/9da0a126618b4a86f94e1f9a806bcc25102ae24f does this conflict with what you're working on?
[20:07] <hatch> if it does....it's a race to see who lands first :P
[20:37] <jcsackett> hatch: not even a little bit.
[20:37] <hatch> jcsackett:  great - my original version was much bigger
[20:37] <hatch> heh
[20:38] <hatch> I've also found an issue with the token rendering that will need a refactor post 1.0+
[20:38] <hatch> the tokens are never cleaned up even if they don't exist any longer (the machine is destroyed)
[20:38] <hatch> they aren't shown in the dom, but they are still instantiated
[20:42] <jcsackett> hatch: fun times.
[20:55] <hatch> kadams54:  spin up a juju env, I'll need a qa shortly :)
[20:55] <kadams54> lol
[20:59] <hatch> jujugui lf reviews and a qa https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/510
[21:00] <hatch> kadams54:  this is the fix to the bug you found in the last branch
[21:00]  * kadams54 warms up his wrecking ball
[21:01] <kadams54> Which begs the question… how exactly do you warm up a wrecking ball? I mean, besides the Miley Cyrus way.
[21:01] <kadams54> hatch: On it.
[21:02] <hatch> lol
[21:53] <hatch> Makyo:  review done
[21:53] <hatch> I'll hold off on qa until the bug kadams54 found is fixed
[21:53] <hatch> there was one issue
[21:54] <Makyo> Cool, thanks
[22:02] <hatch> kadams54:  I don't understand your comment - it sounds like the issue that the previous branch fixed
[22:02] <hatch> the tokens should never disappear
[22:02] <hatch> just update
[22:06] <hatch> kadams54:  can you check to make sure you have cleared your cache and all that
[23:03] <huwshimi> Morning
[23:05] <hatch> oh huwshimi I thought you were working the night shift ;)
[23:05] <hatch> or, I suppose the graveyard shift
[23:05] <huwshimi> :)
[23:06] <huwshimi> hatch: I replied to your comments
[23:10] <hatch> thanks going back through again
[23:10] <hatch> the test failure was a legit one
[23:10] <hatch> ^ huwshimi
[23:11] <hatch> huwshimi: +1'd with a comment request
[23:12] <huwshimi> hatch: Oh, all I can see is that the build was aborted. I'll run locally
[23:14] <hatch> huwshimi:  http://ci.jujugui.org:8080/job/juju-gui/1678/console
[23:14] <hatch> CI hang so there was a bunch of messed up runs
[23:14] <hatch> hung*
[23:15] <huwshimi> oh I see
[23:17] <huwshimi> hatch: ugh, it runs fine locally :(
[23:18] <hatch> huwshimi:  try running test-prod
[23:18] <huwshimi> ah ok
[23:20] <huwshimi> oops, silly mistake
[23:26] <huwshimi> kadams54: If you're around, just need a +1 on my branch if you're happy: https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/507
[23:31] <hatch> huwshimi:  imho if he doesn't pop in in the next couple hours - jfsi
[23:31] <hatch> :)
[23:31] <huwshimi> :)
[23:31] <huwshimi> hatch: Well there was a QA OK and no code comments...
[23:32] <hatch> huwshimi:  the other thing is that when you're submitting branches that are multiple cards, can you put in the pr, the cards which are in that branch, or inversely the pr in the cards
[23:32] <hatch> maybe he thought your code was perfecto!
[23:35] <hatch> so perfect in fact the +1 was not even necessary
[23:39] <huwshimi> hatch: Yep, I put the pr in both cards, I can do the opposite as well if that helps
[23:41] <hatch> oh I missed that heh
[23:41] <hatch> my workflow is usually from GH to kanban
[23:45] <huwshimi> hatch: Yeah, me too, I'll put the titles in a comment or something
[23:46] <hatch> just fyi the title and the body of the first post are what gets written into the git log for the merge commit
[23:46] <hatch> so that's why we have been putting the qa comments in an extra comment
[23:46] <huwshimi> hatch: Yeah, I thought I could do it with the QA comment
[23:46] <huwshimi> hatch: I wish cards had unique ids, would make this stuff much easier
[23:46] <hatch> ugh I know
[23:46] <hatch> well....they do
[23:46] <hatch> but they aren't really accessible hah
[23:49] <huwshimi> concrete just about to be poured under the house for my new office :)
[23:49] <hatch> you are getting a basement?
[23:49] <hatch> I'm not entirely sure how concrete gets poured under a house without there also being a big hole :)
[23:50] <huwshimi> well yes, the garage under the house is being converted into a room for me to work in
[23:52] <hatch> ohh interesting
[23:52] <hatch> don't you park in your garage?
[23:52] <hatch> :)
[23:52] <huwshimi> hatch: I just park in the driveway, it's a bit too small
[23:54] <hatch> ahh gotcha
[23:56] <hatch> well yay! in that case :)


[00:37] <wantE17style> hello
[00:46] <aetaric> wantE17style: just ask them
[02:53] <slide> What is getty? Im trying to remove any un needed programs on my server and i have this running "/sbin/getty 38400 tty1"
[02:57] <nawty> slide: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=what+is+getty&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
[02:57] <nawty> slide: also, what version of ubuntu server are you running?
[02:58] <slide> i think the newest, my host just reinstalled for me so im not sure what they used
[02:58] <slide> gutsy
[02:59] <slide> according to apt sources heh
[02:59] <nawty> slide: what does /etc/issue say?
[02:59] <slide> Ubuntu 7.10
[03:00] <nawty> slide: and you'll have to bear with me for a moment here, it's 3am, and my brain's slow :P
[03:00] <slide> hehe yea, brains slow here too.. family has been over alll day
[03:00] <nawty> slide: dpkg -S /sbin/init
[03:01] <nawty> slide: what does that return?
[03:01] <nawty> slide: do you know what getty does yet?
[03:01] <slide> sysvinit: /sbin/init
[03:02] <nawty> ok, that's running the old (pre-upstart) init system.
[03:02] <slide> yea its something for termals dunno
[03:02] <nawty> slide: so getty controls the login prompts you see on your ubuntu servers
[03:02] <nawty> slide: alt-f1, alt-f2... etc...
[03:02] <nawty> tty0 is the first one, and tty1... etc... you get the idea no doubt.
[03:03] <slide> yea
[03:03] <slide> I guess thats the remove console that my host offers
[03:03] <nawty> i'm assuming because this is a server you would like to have only the first terminal available, and remove the extras ?
[03:03] <slide> remove/remote
[03:03] <nawty> slide: <editor-of-choice-here> /etc/inittab
[03:04] <nawty> go down to the lines that have tty..etc...
[03:04] <slide> 1:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty1
[03:04] <slide> thats the only 1
[03:04] <nawty> are you sure?
[03:04] <slide> yea
[03:05] <nawty> so in theory, you should have lines that look like this:
[03:05] <nawty> #2:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty2
[03:05] <nawty> #3:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty3
[03:05] <nawty> #4:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty4
[03:05] <nawty> #5:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty5
[03:05] <nawty> #6:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty6
[03:05] <slide> exactly
[03:05] <nawty> well, without the #'s.
[03:05] <slide> no, with the #'s
[03:06] <nawty> well, do you have lines that resemble that at all? and if so, do they have the #'s?
[03:07] <slide> i have exactly, the line i pasted and then the lines you pasted
[03:07] <nawty> and, then when you do a ps afx you have only the one line ? or do you have all of the lines? (more than the tty1 line)
[03:08] <slide> only the 1 line
[03:08] <nawty> ah, you could remove the tty0, but i would really suggest against it!
[03:09] <slide> i think the tty1 may be how my zen host has 'remote console' that i can see the system boot up with
[03:09] <slide> hrm
[03:09] <slide> maybe not
[03:10] <nawty> bah, i'm an idiot, i mean to be talking about tty1, not tty0
[03:10] <slide> yea i figured heh
[03:10] <nawty> hehehe, yeah, you're right, tty1 is your 'console'
[03:10] <nawty> I'm pretty sure you could remove such an evil process :P
[03:10] <nawty> but i'd suggest against it.
[03:11] <slide> yea
[03:11] <slide> im not gonna ;)
[03:11] <slide> do you know of any guides or anything to help me really secure my server?
[03:12] <nawty> and on that bomb shell, i'm going to put my ass to bed.
[03:12] <slide> i got hacked recently and DONT want it to happen again
[03:12] <nawty> slide: give me a second, i'll see if i can find you something
[03:12] <slide> thanks! :)
[03:12] <nawty> slide: ah, so there's a few things you can do off the bat.
[03:12] <nawty> slide: ssh no root logins, iptables unused incoming ports
[03:12] <nawty> slide: daemons listening on localhost
[03:12] <nawty> slide: do you run php of any flavour?
[03:12] <slide> yes
[03:13] <nawty> slide: running hardened php
[03:13] <nawty> slide: do you run it as the apache user?
[03:14] <nawty> slide: if so, you should investigate running it as a su-php configuration
[03:14] <slide> apache runs as www
[03:14] <nawty> www-data
[03:14] <nawty> that's flavour dependant unfortunately
[03:14] <slide> no heh
[03:14] <slide> i changed it to www
[03:15] <nawty> which ever and all, no doubt you do mass virtual hosting of some sort or another ?
[03:16] <slide> yea
[03:16] <nawty> slide: suphp + hardenedphp
[03:17] <nawty> slide: and try get your users to have non-generic uid's
[03:17] <nawty> slide: and, then that of course runs straight out the box from apt
[03:17] <slide> i have no real users
[03:17] <nawty> slide: make sure your /tmp is mounted with noexec
[03:18] <nawty> slide: i was more thinking create some at least semi-non-generic uid groups
[03:18] <nawty> so for client x, all his sites get a uid, and then client y, all her sites get a uid
[03:18] <nawty> more to avoid one clients bad code to be able to affect another users.
[03:18] <nawty> if you're paranoid you can look at something like portsentry
[03:19] <nawty> 8.04 is going to include apparmour
[03:19] <slide> cool cool :)
[03:21] <nawty> slide: unfortunately, i can't be of much help right this second.
[03:21] <slide> thats cool
[03:21] <slide> go to sleep
[03:21] <slide> hehe
[03:22] <nawty> slide: heheh, remind me in about 12 hours and i'll give you a run down of exactly what i've done to some of my mass virtual hosting boxen to avoid them getting hacked
[03:22] <slide> sweet!
[03:22] <slide> thanks :)
[03:22] <nawty> slide: i've had a total of 3 compromised servers in about 8 years, and over 7500 websites at one point :)
[03:22] <slide> dang
[03:22] <slide> how do you handle them when they get compromised?
[03:23] <nawty> 2 of said servers were not actually running anything :P but stupid ass me forgot they were on the network.
[03:23] <nawty> slide: pull ethernet, work back through logs and such, and once i can verify that the data isn't dodgy, use that data, else use backup restored data to restore post reinstall.
[03:24] <slide> yea im having a hard time figuring out how they got in
[03:24] <nawty> slide: i doubt anyone i know would be comfortable with a compromised server even after cleanup, over a clean new install.
[03:24] <slide> i got my host to backup server and reinstal and let me view the backup
[03:24] <nawty> slide: error log not have anything at all?
[03:24] <nawty> slide: and, did you check /tmp ?
[03:24] <slide> nawty, well not that I could see
[03:24] <slide> but im no expert so
[03:25] <slide> nawty, nothing at all in there
[03:25] <nawty> slide: if you could find something in /tmp, or some shared place tha they'd have placed their uploaded files
[03:25] <nawty> slide: ah, but it's been rebooted :9
[03:25] <nawty> :(
[03:25] <slide> nawty, i did get a report about some phising pages on one of the sites
[03:25] <slide> and my host deleted those files though
[03:25] <nawty> slide: could be a result of the hack.
[03:25] <slide> right
[03:26] <slide> and i think they were sending spam
[03:26] <nawty> slide: also, could've been 2 separate hacks, one for spam, one for phishing.
[03:26] <slide> which is why i took it down without really letting my users know
[03:26] <slide> b/c didnt want to get their emails blacklisted
[03:26] <nawty> slide: eeek. good idea, but in future try organise a kvm and pull the network
[03:26] <slide> kvm?
[03:26] <nawty> slide: from there you can work your way back without rebooting the box and loosing iformation
[03:26] <nawty> slide: access to the keyboard and mouse.
[03:26] <slide> ah
[03:27] <nawty> slide: and video, but over the network
[03:27] <nawty> well, to be technically correct, it'd be an IPKVM, or IP Based Management Console
[03:28] <nawty> slide: running processes, memory filesystems, and logs should all be kept as pristine as possible to work your way back.
[03:28] <slide> yea
[03:28] <nawty> slide: cissp has a bit on how to forensically analyze a server, see if you can find some information on that.
[03:28] <slide> k
[03:28] <nawty> slide: but it's been years since i last looked at the cissp course material.
[03:29] <nawty> slide: anyway, goin to get some sleep, nite nite :)
[03:29] <nawty> *wave*
[03:29] <slide> nite
[03:29] <slide> thanks
[03:29] <slide> ttyl
[06:52] <J-_> When using ddclient, it says, "Enter the interface which is used for using dynamic DNS service. Interface used for dynamic DNS service:" do I put my dynamic IP in there, or router's static IP?
[06:52] <kgoetz> *interface*
[06:53] <kgoetz> usually means device, like eth0, ppp0, etc
[07:16] <J-_> !httpd
[07:16] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about httpd - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[07:38] <J-_> I'm trying to make a Virtual host to point to http://directory.site.dyndns.org on my http://site.dyndns.org website pointing to my server. My IP always changes, how can I define the IP since I have to define the IP:80(ie. NameVirtualHost ip.address:port) in /etc/apache2/apache2.conf?
[07:38] <Kamping_Kaiser> i doubt you'll be able to do subdomains on a dyndns account
[07:39] <J-_> I can
[07:39] <Kamping_Kaiser> really?
[07:40] <J-_> I can do wildcards
[07:40] <J-_> http://www.dyndns.com/services/dns/dyndns/howto.html
[07:40] <J-_> shows how to set up the ddclient, but says something about wildcards.
[07:41] <Kamping_Kaiser> J-_, http://k-k.homelinux.net:81/~kgoetz/apache2-vhost-template.txt
[08:22] <J-_> If I can't get my server to come up with <IP_ADDRESS> does it mean it's not set up corrently, or is something not defined?
[08:25] <fromport> J- you're error description doesn't make sense: cannot computer
[08:25] <fromport> compute
[10:08] <J-_> Do I need to make a virtual hosting for my /var/www/ too now that I've made one for /var/www/about/?
[10:09] <J-_> virtual host*
[10:10] <J-_> It's weird. Since I made the /var/www/about/ virtual host, I go to my /var/www/ and it shows the same page.
[10:11]  * J-_ asks in apache.
[12:15] <aetaric> is it possible to port forward ssh?
[12:15] <faulkes-> yes
[12:16] <aetaric> then why won't i let me
[12:16] <aetaric> *it
[12:16] <faulkes-> there are any number of possible reasons why it won't let you do it
[12:17] <faulkes-> for instance, trying to port forward a port under <1024 as non-root
[12:17] <faulkes-> configuration options set in ssh_config, sshd_config etc..
[12:17] <faulkes-> or possible user error
[12:18] <aetaric> i don't have iptables or any firewall..and im using the default ssh configs
[12:20] <aetaric> can you help me resolve this problem?
[14:10] <AlexC_> hey,
[14:11] <AlexC_> I'm trying to setup Bind9 so that `example.com` runs on one IP, and `foobar.example.com` runs on another, this seems to work (pinging them shows the correct IP) however, I am unable to connect to it via a webbrowser
[14:12] <Kamping_Kaiser> sounds like apache is misconfigured
[14:12] <Kamping_Kaiser> btw. what guide did you follow for bind?
[14:13] <AlexC_> I haven't followed a guide, really
[14:13] <AlexC_> right, example.com should serve as a normal Apache virtual host, however foobar.example.com should connect to port 882 and it runs webmin
[14:14] <AlexC_> no, wait. https://foobar.example.com:882 runs Webmin (so seperate from Apache) *however* https://foobar.example.com runs as a virtual host
[14:18] <AlexC_> nevermind, I have it working =)
[15:09] <nxvl> mathiaz: hi!
[15:10] <zul> hey mathiaz
[16:30] <nxvl> nijaba: did you take a look at Bug #162167 ?
[16:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 162167 in mysql-dfsg-5.0 "mySQL password asks only once" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162167
[17:28] <nxvl> dendrobates: did you take a look at Bug #196778 ?
[17:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 196778 in likewise-open "Provide likewise-open-gui and likewise-open binaries rather than domainjoin-gui and domainjoin-cli" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/196778
[17:30] <dendrobates> nxvl: I have merged your debdiff and some other changes and am testing now.
[17:30] <nxvl> dendrobates: :D
[17:34] <nxvl> btw
[17:34] <nxvl> dendrobates: did you check about the student program we talk about some days ago?
[17:34] <dendrobates> nxvl: not yet.
[17:34] <nxvl> ok
[17:34] <nxvl> if you know smoething please let me know
[19:19] <Sylphid> comming from a red hat background would ubuntu or debian be more up my ally for a server install?
[19:20] <sommer> Sylphid: I'd vote for Ubuntu
[19:22] <kirkland> Sylphid: do you have a preference between, say RHEL and Fedora?
[19:23] <Sylphid> i was actually using fedora
[19:23] <kirkland> Sylphid: If you prefer the speed at which Fedora tracks mainline, you'd like Ubuntu.
[19:23] <Sylphid> but it was compromised
[19:24] <kirkland> Sylphid: if you want long term or even commercial support, look at Ubuntu's LTS releases
[19:25] <Sylphid> debian does not have a kernel compiled for server optimization out of box correct?
[19:27] <Sylphid> does ubuntu default to enabling SELinux
[19:29] <sommer> Sylphid: it defaults to using AppArmor, but you can easily install SELinux
[19:30] <Sylphid> hmm never used AppArmor .... less annoying that SELinux? =D
[19:35] <sommer> I've found it easier to configure
[19:38] <Sylphid> ty sommer and kirkland for ur time... ill give ubuntu server a shot :)
[19:39] <kirkland> Sylphid: have fun
[19:39] <Sylphid> always
[19:49] <w0nder> anyone recommend a particular irc server for my small office?
[20:06] <JaxxMaxx_> Anyone here have experience with FreeRadius, and more specifically, the webadmin module  dialup_admin  for that RADIUS server?  Its documentation mentions making sure PHP4 modules are loaded into apache, but I read recently that version 4 isn't in 7.10   Would the php5 work?
[20:17] <ScottK> JaxxMaxx_: I'm not familiar with that module, but at a guess I'd say almost certainly not.
[20:23] <timboy> i'm running apache. what owner should I make my var/www/* ?
[20:34] <sommer> timboy: www-data
[20:36] <timboy> sommer, thx!
[20:40] <sommer> timboy: you're welcome
[21:24] <timboy> I have a stock apache setup on gutsy server and I wanted to get ssl working. What's the best way to do so? I already have ssl working for my email server I just want the webmail logins to be encrypted...
[21:27] <sommer> timboy: the gutsy serverguide should help: https://help.ubuntu.com/7.10/server/C/httpd.html
[21:29] <timboy> thx again sommer
[21:29] <sommer> np
[23:43] <lamont`> ScottK: you around?
[23:43] <lamont`> debian 3118123
[23:43] <lamont`> debian 311812
[23:43] <ubotu> Debian bug 311812 in postfix "postfix: syslog reconnection" [Grave,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/311812


[15:00] <bac> #startmeeting
[15:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is bac.
[15:00] <bac> hi who is here for today's reviewer meeting?
[15:00] <jelmer> me
[15:00] <mars> me
[15:00] <sinzui> me
[15:00] <abentley2> me
[15:00] <adeuring> me
[15:00] <henninge> me
[15:00] <henninge> bac: danilo sends his apologies
[15:00] <leonardr> me
[15:00] <henninge> I think ;)
[15:01] <bac> gary, francis, julian are also away
[15:01] <mars> Foundations is here.  Record time :)
[15:01] <BjornT> me (although a bit busy with other things)
[15:01] <noodles775> me
[15:01] <bac> deryck too.  is gmb around today?  allenap?
[15:01] <gmb> me
[15:02] <gmb> bac, allenap is now a Landscaper for 6 moths.
[15:02] <adeuring> bac: allenap is on "LP holidays"
[15:02] <gmb> Er, months.
[15:02] <bac> ah, right
[15:02] <mars> gmb, ?  Did I miss that in the staffing mail?
[15:02] <bac> salgado: ping
[15:03] <mars> bac, salgado is off to other projects as well
[15:03] <bac> right, right
[15:03] <gmb> mars, Possibly; I wasn't paying attention. But he's definitely on rotation to LS.
[15:03] <bac> [topic] agenda
[15:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
[15:03] <bac> * Roll call
[15:03] <bac>  * Agenda
[15:03] <bac>  * Outstanding actions
[15:03] <bac>  * Mentoring update
[15:03] <bac>  * New topics
[15:03] <bac>    * ec2 failures - bac
[15:03] <bac>    * UDS next week.  No meeting or volunteer substitute chair?
[15:03] <bac>  * Peanut gallery
[15:03] <bac> [topic] outstanding actions
[15:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  outstanding actions
[15:03] <bac> * bac is a big loser
[15:03] <EdwinGrubbs> me
[15:04] <bac> i have two items on my plate that i haven't gotten to.  i *promise* to do them tomorrow so i can go to UDS with a clear conscience
[15:04] <intellectronica> me
[15:04] <bac> [topic] rockstar to start ML discussion about the lack of UI reviews
[15:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  rockstar to start ML discussion about the lack of UI reviews
[15:05] <bac> rockstar attends the AMEU meeting so he's not here now.  i don't think he did this, though.
[15:05] <bac> he brought it up in the meeting last week and had good statistics on the number of UI reviews that have been performed lately and it was very low.
[15:05] <bac> i'll remind him to take it to the list and we can chat there
[15:05] <noodles775> Yeah, I haven't seen any in a few weeks now (and few before)
[15:06] <intellectronica> bac: we've discussed this and we think the stats are wrong
[15:06] <bac> intellectronica: really?  that's good to hear.
[15:07] <mars> intellectronica, bac, true, but that discussion can probably be saved for the list
[15:07] <bac> sinzui: what is your impression?  have you been doing many?
[15:07] <intellectronica> because of ec2 land people don't commit with the quite tag
[15:07] <sinzui> I was doing many in week 1 and 2
[15:07] <sinzui> 1 last week
[15:07] <gmb> bac, intellectronica and sinzui did 3 or for for me last cycle, for sure.
[15:07] <bac> intellectronica: why is that?  i thought ec2 land did a good job of getting the ui tag?
[15:07]  * intellectronica shuts up
[15:07] <gmb> s/last/this
[15:07] <sinzui> I think this may be indicative that UI should land in weeks 0, 1, and 2
[15:08] <gmb> bac, Only if you tag the review with 'ui' in the mp.
[15:08] <gmb> Otherwise I think it just puts all the names in the [r=] block.
[15:08] <bac> gmb: ah, so we need to ensure the ui reviewers are tagging correctly or the MP author does it right.
[15:08] <gmb> Yes
[15:08] <bac> that's good information to pass on.
[15:09] <bac> so we have a failure in tools/procedure not lack of reviewing.  hurrah.
[15:09] <bac> moving on
[15:09] <bac> [topic] * ec2 failures - bac
[15:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  * ec2 failures - bac
[15:10] <bac> mars and i chatted this morning and we wanted to hear from people how often they are seeing ec2 jobs just disappear and the effect it is having.
[15:10] <bac> personally i see it a lot and it is very disruptive
[15:10] <jelmer> bac: I'm often seeing branches disappear, and it's quite annoying.
[15:10] <bac> for important branches i've been running them locally
[15:10] <mars> So far I know salgado and matsubara have both experienced a few test suite hangs in the past few days
[15:10] <bac> also, my ec2 bill last month was 4 times normal
[15:11] <gmb> bac, I've seen it happen twice this week already, it's getting annoyingly common.
[15:11] <gmb> I don't see many branches hanging; they just vanish.
[15:11] <bac> so how can we attack this problem to figure out what is going on?
[15:11] <mars> gmb, the instance dies?
[15:11] <jelmer> I haven't seen any hanging branches either (or do they get killed automatically?)
[15:11] <mars> jelmer, ^ ?
[15:11] <salgado> the ec2 instance shuts itself down after 8h
[15:12] <gmb> salgado, Ah, so they might well be hangs then.
[15:12] <noodles775> I've killed one hanging ec2 land after the log had not been updated for 2hrs.
[15:12] <mars> salgado, thanks, that is good to know
[15:12] <salgado> if it's left hung for long enough, it will shut down and you won't get any notifications
[15:12] <noodles775> (last week)
[15:12] <jelmer> mars: yeah, it just disappears silently
[15:12] <bac> did we have this problem before jml's subunit changes?
[15:12] <mars> jelmer, think it is inside our outside that 8 hour window?
[15:13] <jelmer> mars: outside probably
[15:13] <mars> ok
[15:13] <salgado> bac, I think we had it before.  do you know when the subunit changes landed?
[15:13] <mars> bac, the changes and fixes landed the 14th of April, your fix landed on the 21st
[15:14] <jelmer> I've definitely seen it before his changes as well.
[15:14] <bac> jelmer: ok, thanks.
[15:14] <mars> jelmer, salgado, that is also good to know.  Thanks.
[15:15] <mars> For everyone's benefit, I am tracking progress on this with Bug 570380
[15:15] <bac> thanks mars
[15:15] <mars> I have some solutions being worked on for this, I will keep everyone updated as things progress
[15:16] <bac> i guess i'd encourage everyone to not just suffer in silence but (kindly) let mars know when it happens and try to gather some data
[15:16] <bac> [topic] * UDS next week.  No meeting or volunteer substitute chair?
[15:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  * UDS next week.  No meeting or volunteer substitute chair?
[15:16] <bac> i'm at UDS next week and a few others as well.
[15:16] <bac> shall we just skip the meeting?
[15:16] <bac> or would someone like to volunteer to lead it?
[15:17] <bac> i think the group silence is a vote to skip.
[15:17] <bac> [action] bac cancels next week's reviewers meeting
[15:17] <MootBot> ACTION received:  bac cancels next week's reviewers meeting
[15:17] <bac> [topic] mentoring update
[15:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  mentoring update
[15:18] <bac> noodles775, jelmer: everything still going well?
[15:18] <noodles775> Yep... although more non-soyuz reviews for jelmer would still be great :)
[15:18] <jelmer> I reviewed only two branches last week, mostly because I was distracted by other things. It's all going well otherwise though imo.
[15:19] <jelmer> and yeah, more non-soyuz branches please :-)
[15:19] <bac> [topic] peanut gallery
[15:19] <MootBot> New Topic:  peanut gallery
[15:19] <maxb> I have a peanut item: https://dev.launchpad.net/ReviewingCodeImports claims that community members can be members of ~vcs-imports, however, when it was brought up on the mailing list (subj: Code Import Reviews), the thread fizzled out with me producing a list of places where ~vcs-imports perhaps granted too-wide permissions. Someone should decide whether community members really _can_ be in ~vcs-imports or not, and either change the wi
[15:19] <maxb> ki page or work out how to make it happen.
[15:19] <bac> hi maxb
[15:20] <maxb> I believe this might dovetail with the promised community reviewers email :-)
[15:20] <bac> thanks for bringing that up max.
[15:20] <bac> maxb: touche
[15:20] <wgrant> Promised, legendary, or mythical?
[15:20] <wgrant> It seems to be in the realms of legend at the moment :P
[15:21] <bac> maxb: i'll bring it up in the ameu meeting this afternoon
[15:21] <maxb> thanks
[15:21] <sinzui> Looks like poolie and members of the Launchpad-code team can add you gentlemen
[15:21] <bac> any other topics?
[15:21] <mars> wgrant, it's not mythical, I've seen it!  I swear!
[15:21] <bac> it's right there in my drafts folder, wgrant.  really it is.
[15:22] <wgrant> Oh!
[15:22] <bac> going once
[15:22] <bac> twice
[15:22] <bac> thanks for coming everyone.
[15:22] <bac> * UDS next week.  No meeting or volunteer substitute chair?
[15:22] <bac> er,
[15:22] <mars> thanks bac
[15:22] <bac> #endmeeting
[15:22] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:22.
[15:22] <abentley> thank, bac
[22:43] <bac> thumper, rockstar: ping
[22:44] <thumper> hi
[22:44] <rockstar> bac, we're still on the standup...
[22:44] <bac> ok
[22:44] <bac> how long until  you're done?
[22:44] <rockstar> bac, depends on chatty thumper
[22:45] <thumper> :-|
[22:45] <thumper> done now
[22:45] <bac> ok, then?  do i hear a chorus of 'me'?
[22:46] <rockstar> me
[22:46]  * rockstar choruses
[22:46] <bac> so in the ameu meeting we determined i was slack for not getting to my tasks
[22:46] <rockstar> I am also slack for not sending an email in my drafts folder about UI reviews.
[22:46] <thumper> what tasks?
[22:46] <bac> we also talked about rockstar's concerns about the UI reviews
[22:46] <rockstar> bac, yay.
[22:47] <bac> thumper: the same stuff that i've been ignoring:  community review policy and what constitutes testable documentation
[22:47] <thumper> :)
[22:47] <rockstar> bac, I has an announcement...
[22:47] <bac> rockstar: so the concensus is it isn't as bad as your data showed.  just that UI reviewers are marking the MP properly so ec2 land doesn't construct the correct PQM message
[22:48] <rockstar> bac, ah, that's what I was being told.
[22:48] <bac> we also talked some about the problem with ec2 losing branches with no email
[22:48] <rockstar> However, as a ui reviewer, I still don't feel as overwhelmed as I should be...
[22:48] <bac> it is really hurting us in lost time.
[22:49] <thumper> bac: that'll be the hang followed by the belt and braces shutdown
[22:49] <bac> thumper: what do you mean?
[22:49] <thumper> bac: perhaps the shutdown code should also email just before
[22:49] <rockstar> thumper, you mean "suspenders" ?
[22:49] <rockstar> :)
[22:49] <thumper> when the ec2 instances start up
[22:49] <thumper> we have some code that says
[22:49] <thumper> shutdown in 8 hours
[22:49] <thumper> or 6
[22:49] <thumper> whatever
[22:50] <thumper> a test hangs
[22:50] <thumper> machine gets shut down
[22:50] <thumper> no email
[22:50] <rockstar> thumper, although this doesn't always happen for me.
[22:50] <rockstar> Sometimes the machine is still running 10 hours later.
[22:50] <bac> thumper: hmm, i didn't know that.  i'll suggest it to mars
[22:50] <thumper> so perhaps before shutdown it should send suicide email
[22:50] <bac> thumper: indeed
[22:51] <rockstar> The subject should be "Goodbye cruel world"
[22:51] <bac> we also had this item from maxb:
[22:51] <bac> I have a peanut item: https://dev.launchpad.net/ReviewingCodeImports claims that community members can be members of ~vcs-imports, however, when it was brought up on the mailing list (subj: Code Import Reviews), the thread fizzled out with me producing a list of places where ~vcs-imports perhaps granted too-wide permissions. Someone should decide whether community members really _can_ be in ~vcs-imports or not, and either change the wi
[22:51] <bac> ki page or work out how to make it happen.
[22:52] <thumper> a bug should be filed about permissions that they shouldn't have
[22:52] <thumper> and we'll fix it
[22:52] <thumper> when the bugs are fixed
[22:52] <thumper> we could open it up again
[22:52] <bac> so 1) file bug on extra permissions, 2) fix bug, 3) open vcs-imports to community peeps?
[22:53] <thumper> aye
[22:53] <bac> excellent
[22:53] <bac> i'll find max's email and either file the bug or ask him to do it.
[22:53] <bac> [action] bac to see that a bug is filed about vcs-import permissions being to generous
[22:54] <thumper> cool
[22:54] <bac> also, i'm going to be at UDS next week so i'm cancelling this meeting.
[22:54] <bac> either of you going?
[22:54] <thumper> ack
[22:54] <thumper> nope
[22:54] <mars> thumper, good idea about the shutdown mail, I've noted it.
[22:54] <rockstar> nope
[22:54] <bac> i've heard to expect cold, rain, and extreme boringness of venue
[22:54] <rockstar> bac, I have an announcement.
[22:55] <bac> yes rockstar
[22:55]  * thumper has something to
[22:55] <rockstar> bac, noodles sent me an email today telling me to go ahead and announce that I'm a graduated UI reviewer.
[22:55] <bac> oh congratulations!
[22:56] <bac> so who are the full-fledged reviewers?  just you and noodles?
[22:56] <thumper> what about sinzui?
[22:56] <bac> i thought sinzui was still a UI-mentat
[22:57] <thumper> I've heard that noodles thinks he is good enough but sinzui is resisting
[22:57] <sinzui> I am
[22:57] <thumper> sinzui: stop resisting
[22:57] <thumper> resistance is futile
[22:57] <bac> uh oh, we woke him
[22:57] <rockstar> sinzui is gradiated.
[22:57]  * thumper sooths sinzui back to sleep
[22:57] <bac> congrats sinzui too
[22:57] <bac> thumper what was your item?
[22:57] <thumper> ok
[22:58] <sinzui> I am was mentoring intellectronica, but then he abandoned me.
[22:58] <thumper> more of a reminder for people to read my emails to launchpad-dev
[22:58] <thumper> there are two new testing things:
[22:58] <thumper> a better base breadcrumb test case, which uses test_traverse
[22:58] <bac> thumper: i read those.  i meant to bring them up today in ameu but forgot.
[22:58] <thumper> and self.oopses in the base TestCase class
[22:58] <thumper> I wrote up details for launchpad-dev
[22:58] <thumper> so details are there
[22:59] <sinzui> No one wants to be a UI reviewer. They do not like the cool sun glasses and hair cuts you get when you join the club
[22:59] <bac> and i'll certainly forget again in two weeks time
[22:59] <bac> thanks for those nice new tools thumper
[22:59] <thumper> np
[22:59] <rockstar> sinzui, I like my haircut!  :)
[22:59] <thumper> rockstar: isn't yours more like a lack of haircut?
[22:59] <thumper> :)
[23:00] <bac> which haircut are you sporting now paul?
[23:00] <rockstar> thumper, point
[23:00] <rockstar> bac, the unkempt "I haven't showered in 12 days" haircut.
[23:00] <bac> uh, nice
[23:00] <rockstar> It's called "hat"
[23:00] <bac> well i see we have devolved
[23:00] <bac> thanks for chatting.  see  you again in two weeks
[23:01] <sinzui> I think bathing is a quality of successful engineers
[23:01] <thumper> thansk back
[23:01] <thumper> thanks bac
[23:02]  * mars hands sinzui the "Non-sequitur of the Week" award
[23:02] <mars> :)
[23:18] <maxb> bac: Hello, the email of mine you referred to finding during the reviewers meeting is https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev/msg03197.html
[23:18] <bac> thanks maxb!
[23:22] <bac> maxb:  i filed bug 576090


[07:56] <mncheckm> bia
[16:45] <mncheckm> JanC, which wikis are VCS-based, prioritizing markdown?
[17:24] <JanC> without looking for markdown, several "forges" have a built-in wiki module, and there are several other wikis that are (by default or optionally) VCS-based, e.g. ikiwiki, git-wiki, sputnik, gitit, ...
[17:26] <JanC> mncheckm: ^