[08:05] <cjwatson> emdub: You can't start daemons in the context of the installer, so start-stop-daemon is deliberately disabled within in-target.
[16:56] <emdub> cjwatson: was this a recent change?  it used to work, just a month or two ago
[17:01] <emdub> cjwatson: for quite some time i have been using late_command to install/run puppet to pull down system configuration changes
[17:01] <emdub> cjwatson: as part of puppet installing services, it also starts them
[17:02] <emdub> cjwatson: this has worked for me for months and months but it seems like something changed fairly recently, like you mentioned, to disable start-stop-daemon
[17:03] <emdub> cjwatson: i guess my hope is that folks didn't realize there was a use case for it so it can be put back the way it was?
[17:09] <emdub> cjwatson: or i guess, could you confirm that it changed recently?  i suppose it's possible some daemons changed and i just never realized s-s-daemon was that way
[17:09] <emdub> cjwatson: sorry if that came off accusatory :)
[17:49] <cjwatson> emdub: not even a slightly recent change in the installer.  perhaps puppet changed how it starts services, or perhaps the packages in question changed.
[17:51] <cjwatson> emdub: I won't change it back - it's integral and necessary to how the installer works.  however, you can always replicate parts of how in-target works yourself without the bits you don't like - for example do the bind-mounting dances yourself and run things inside 'chroot /target'
[17:51] <cjwatson> in fact I'm not sure the installer has ever not worked this way :-)
[17:53] <emdub> cjwatson: yeah i suppose it's entirely possible that it's worked this way the whole time but most services don't actually check to make sure the service started as part of its init script, so it never caused a problem
[17:53] <emdub> cjwatson: thanks for the feedback :)
[17:54] <cjwatson> does puppet not simply start the services by way of packages' postinsts, then?
[17:54] <cjwatson> many of them certainly do check ...
[17:54] <cjwatson> well, I suppose not if the fake s-s-d returns zero, which I don't recall
[17:55] <emdub> afaik puppet's checking of service start/stop is purely derived from the exit level of the init script it calls
[17:55] <cjwatson> yeah, I just misremembered exit status of ssd.REAL
[17:55] <emdub> right, so there hasn't been a problem until syslog-ng decided it was going to do its own checking to figure out if it was running
[17:55] <cjwatson> ha, right
[17:55] <cjwatson> yes, that would cause a problem
[17:56] <cjwatson> the installer's already running a syslogd - if syslog-ng can manage to start at all, it'd be by luck anyway
[17:56] <emdub> i noticed that
[17:56] <cjwatson> furthermore, if we let you start daemons in the installer, you might well find that the installer has problems unmounting /target at the end
[17:57] <cjwatson> so, even if you do find a way to set it up, I recommend against it, and would suggest working around syslog-ng's requirement to be started instead
[17:57] <emdub> yep, i agree
[17:59] <emdub> i've reduced my installer late_command to simply touching /etc/nologin and replacing /etc/rc.local with the commands i was previously running in the installer
[17:59] <emdub> then i have puppet remove /etc/nologin and the modified rc.local as part of its process
[18:00] <cjwatson> well, that would work, but sounds like the hard way round; but I don't know puppet well enough to have a better suggestion :-)
[18:01] <emdub> :)  you run it and it slurps down configuration changes, packages to install, etc.. so i basically need to be able to run it once the system boots (but it runs automatically from cron after that)
[18:03] <emdub> i suppose i could have just modified the syslog-ng init script, but i tend to agree with you that perhaps not even trying to do puppet stuff in the installer is the way to go
[18:04] <emdub> just asking for more and more things to break the install process... better to just do it after the installer finishes
[18:04] <cjwatson> yeah, I know the concept (our sysadmins use it too), just not what hooks may be available
[18:04] <cjwatson> don't have their installer configuration to hand just now :)
[22:23] <CIA-32> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1682 ubuntu/ (build/config/common debian/changelog debian/rules): Set default suite to quantal.
[22:24] <CIA-32> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1683 ubuntu/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Move to 3.2.0-24 kernels.
[22:26] <CIA-32> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1684 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 20101020ubuntu137


[17:21] <cking> kengyu, I've implemented a mechanism to automate the fwts klog message checking, so we can now see what new messages need annotated in the klog when new kernels come out
[17:24] <cking> apw, are the burn-down charts for R now working? mine seems void of any work items, that's either a bug or w in
[18:57] <cking> rather quiet today
[19:33] <LLStarks> hi, is it possible to merge remote -next branches with the ubuntu git kernels?
[23:00] <bizhanMona> HI I am running kernel 3.0.5 on my system, how could I reserve about 250 M bytes for my kernel modules? thx
[23:50] <synthmesc> sup, I got the latest source with git, built it with "AUTOBUILD=1 fakeroot debian/rules binary-debs KDIR=/path/to/kerneldir" and the instructions aren't really clear on how to install the kernel after building it
[23:51] <synthmesc> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile
[23:51] <synthmesc> I updated the vesa splash, but after that.. I dont have .deb packages
[23:51] <synthmesc> the kernel compiled fine, need instructions on how to install grub2/initramfs/image/etc
[23:58] <bandit-led> synthmesc, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile#Install_the_new_kernel
[23:59] <synthmesc> I dont have the .deb packages in the root folder, where are they?
[23:59] <bandit-led> they are in your user folder not root
[23:59] <synthmesc> I dont see image/headers


[03:45] <mikedep333> perfect pterodactyl?
[03:45] <mikedep333> surely they can use extinct animals
[03:47] <pleia2> anything goes since jackalope
[03:50] <waltman> pensive peacock
[03:51] <waltman> queasy quahog
[03:52] <waltman> randy rhino
[04:09] <ChinnoDog> oh. jackalope. They already use fictional animals.
[04:09] <MutantTurkey> stenciled swan
[04:10] <MutantTurkey> Gobble Gobble
[04:11] <pleia2> troubled turkey
[04:12] <ChinnoDog> hehe
[12:01] <waltman> quixotic quetzalcoatl


[07:06] <micahg> does the docs team care about short descriptions for packages that are unseeded in universe?
[11:30] <mdke> micahg: we don't currently take care of any package descriptions, but it is something that we are interested in. If you have a query then we would be happy to try and help
[11:31] <mdke> Gwaihir: around?
[11:32] <Gwaihir> mdke, yep!
[11:32] <mdke> Gwaihir: ciao :) hope you're well
[11:32] <Gwaihir> mdke, how are you?
[11:32] <Gwaihir> I'm doing great, thanks!
[11:32] <mdke> Gwaihir: I'm good thanks, fairly busy at work recently but very well
[11:32] <mdke> Gwaihir: can you do me a favour? I need a Lucid translation export - https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/ubuntu-docs
[11:33] <Gwaihir> sure, no problem
[11:33] <mdke> thanks a lot
[11:38] <micahg> mdke: I'm just wondering if I can change it since it might affect the way a package might look in software center
[11:38] <micahg> specifically bug 636014
[11:38] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 636014 in flashgot (Ubuntu) "xul-ext-flashgot Enhances: thunderbird but synopsis mentions only Firefox (affects: 1) (heat: 234)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/636014
[11:41] <mdke> micahg: definitely. The whole reason for mpt reporting the bug is to improve the information in software center
[11:41] <mdke> I suspect that mpt has been through a whole load of package descriptions and reported bugs accordingly
[11:42] <micahg> mdke: yes, I just wasn't sure if I could still do this past UiF
[11:44] <mdke> micahg: I don't know what the universe policies are but I'm fairly sure it would require an exception at this stage in the cycle
[11:44] <mdke> possibly that would cause an issue for translators
[11:44] <mdke> I don't know
[11:45] <micahg> mdke: k, but for docs team, there's no issue?
[11:46] <mdke> nope
[11:46] <micahg> mdke: k, thanks, I'll check with the translations team
[11:46] <mdke> np


[00:04] <mhall119> aquarius: pong
[00:06] <aquarius> mhall119: heya. I know I've asked this before, but I'm not sure of the current state of play: can I make a quickly QML + PySide app?
[00:44] <mhall119> aquarius: maybe with https://launchpad.net/quickly-community-templates installed
[00:44] <mhall119> I'm not sure what language/qtlib they use though
[00:46] <mhall119> ah, looks like ubuntu-application-qt uses PySide
[00:47] <mhall119> and ubuntu-application-qtquick does it with QML
[00:47] <aquarius> as does qtquick-application, which is what I want
[00:47] <mhall119> aquarius: I don't know what the status of those templates is though
[00:47] <mhall119> could be kind of rough
[00:47] <aquarius> except... it hasn't been edited since June
[00:47] <aquarius> and I know you guys are busy changing stuff :)
[00:47] <mhall119> aquarius: stable quickly hasn't changed much since June
[00:47] <mhall119> lp:quickly/reboot is where all the action is
[00:48] <mhall119> in fact, it's what I was working on when you pinged me
[00:48] <aquarius> yeah, that's what I'm worried about. I don't really want rough...I want to make an app, not hack on quickly this evening ;)
[00:48] <aquarius> I shall give it a try, and thanks!
[00:49] <mhall119> best of luck
[00:49]  * aquarius installs qtquick template :)
[00:53] <aquarius> mhall119: one other thing... can I stop quickly making my project a bzr repo?
[00:54] <aquarius> it's already in a bzr repo
[00:57] <aquarius> mhall119: unping. I'll just do a separate thing :)
[01:01] <mhall119> aquarius: not easily, no
[01:02] <mhall119> if you're in a directory that you ran "bzr init-repo" on, then it should re-use that repo, and just create a new branch
[01:05] <aquarius> mhall119: cool, thanks
[01:05] <mhall119> man, I've written so much Quickly code, and I've still only recreated 20% of the existing functionality
[01:31] <aquarius> mhall119: hrm, quicly license blows up because it can't find an xml thing. Is this likely to be a problem with the qtquick template, or a general quickly problem??
[01:45] <mhall119> aquarius: probably the qtquick one
[01:47] <aquarius> mhall119: traceback is at http://paste.ubuntu.com/1393380/ if that means anythig to you
[04:55] <HERPDERPingt0n> hello?
[09:33] <aquarius> dpm, ping
[10:14] <dpm> aquarius, pong
[10:15] <aquarius> dpm, am I correct to think that you wrote the quickly qtquick template?
[10:17] <dpm> aquarius, I didn't write it, I just set up the project in Launchpad for all community templates and was involved in helping angeloc (the author) to get it packaged and in some discussions about how to handle translations -> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~quickly-templates-hackers/quickly-community-templates/trunk/revision/10
[10:17] <aquarius> dpm, oh. :)
[10:17] <aquarius> dpm, so, I need to talk to angeloc, then
[10:18] <aquarius> or possibly someone who's quickly-knowledgeable, because "quickly license" doesn't work in that template. I *think* it's because the license stuff assumes that the UI files it's editing are glade files, which they aren't in a QML template :)
[10:18] <dpm> yeah, he hasn't been around much lately, but IIRC, he sent an e-mail a while ago on the quickly list, saying he wanted to continue with the development
[10:19] <dpm> afaik, not all commands work on the template yet, but can't tell off the top of my head which ones do work
[10:20] <aquarius> dpm, the problem is that a bunch of stuff depends on quickly license working, I think... and I don't know how to fix that, because it's calling functions in the base ubuntu-application template, so I don't think I can override them
[10:20] <dpm> aquarius, here's Angelo's last update. You might want to reply to the list, perhaps it will resurrect the thread: https://lists.launchpad.net/quickly-talk/msg00170.html
[10:20] <aquarius> dpm, aha, cool
[10:21] <aquarius> if this ends up in a future where I become maintainer of the qml template, dpm, I am going to blame you
[10:21] <dpm> aquarius, oh, so you already figured out my master plan? :P
[10:21] <aquarius> and then I'm going to put special effort into making you pay. :)
[10:22] <aquarius> I shall reply to the message ;-)
[10:22] <dpm> :)
[10:23] <aquarius> meanwhile, who knows enough about quickly to help me override stuff? I suppose that's mterry or didrocks or mhall119?
[10:24] <dpm> yeah, I think so. didrocks probably the best one at this time of the day, he should be on #quickly or the usual #ubuntu developer channels
[10:25] <dpm> aquarius, and something more: mhall119 is working (on a best-effort basis) on the Quickly Reboot project to make it easy to integrate Quickly into developer tools, which will change how templates are written - http://mhall119.com/2012/11/quickly-rebooted/
[10:25] <dpm> ccccccbfuiihrevtlurjeengdutihcidvhkrtnllljlh
[10:25] <aquarius> dpm, yeah. I am pretending that the reboot doesn't exist.
[10:25] <aquarius> since otherwise I can't do anything at all until it's done
[10:26] <dpm> yeah, sounds like a good approach if you just want to fix the template so that it works for now
[10:32] <aquarius> dpm, yeah. I don't think the problem is actually in the qml template, though... but I don't know enough about quickly to properly decide. Have mailed the list, anyway
[10:33] <dpm> cool
[10:38] <dpm> aquarius, now that I've got you here, a totally unrelated question: do you happen to know how the u1 music app for Android displays the cover art for songs/albums? I've got images for most of my albums in their folders, but sometimes they don't seem to get picked up, so perhaps it just reads the images embedded in the songs? I'm not expecting you to know each and every detail, so I'm asking you in case you know off the top of your head, or if you ca
[10:38] <dpm> n point me to the next best person to ask
[10:38] <aquarius> dpm, it reads images embedded in the songs. It does not pick up cover images in the same folder as the songs
[10:39] <dpm> aquarius, ah, thanks, then that'll be some work for me to do during the weekend ;)
[10:39] <aquarius> :)
[10:40] <aquarius> once you've written a shell script which bakes cover.jpg into every mp3 in that folder, be sre and release it ;)
[10:40] <dpm> :)
[12:02] <dpm> aquarius,
 hey didrocks, quick question on quicky regarding aquarius question on https://lists.launchpad.net/quickly-talk/msg00171.html - would an override (e.g. creating an empty 'license' command on the qtquick template) fix Stuart's upgrade problem?
 dpm: a workaround is to create an empty license command yeah, but a better fix is to have the license command fixed in the ubuntu-application template :)
[12:02] <dpm> let me reply on the mailing list, though
[12:06] <aquarius> dpm, ooh! you are a helpful person, yes you are :)
[12:34] <dpm> glad if it helps you :) I've now replied on the list with more details
[14:14] <mhall119> aquarius: I believe you're right, the license command is expecting glade files, which probably means the qtquick template didn't override/replace that with something custom
[14:19] <aquarius> mhall119, right. I don't really understand how quickly fits together in order to try and fix it...
[14:59] <dpm> aquarius, my reply on the mailing list should give you some guidance on how to fix it. The quickest thing might be to remove 'license' from the commandsconfig file and drop an empty license.py file on the root of the qtconfig template folder
[15:00] <aquarius> dpm, you are giving me too much credit for intelligence. How do I override a command with my own? I assume you're not suggesting that I manually edit the stuff in /usr/share/quickly/templates ?
[15:02] <dpm> aquarius, yeah, sorry, I should have been more detailed. For a quick test, I think you can:
[15:03] <dpm> 1. Remove 'license' from the /usr/share/quickly/templates/ubuntu-application-qtquick/commandsconfig, under the [ubuntu-application] section
[15:04] <dpm> 2. Drop an empty 'license.py' file under /usr/share/quickly/templates/ubuntu-application-qtquick
[15:05] <dpm> If that does not work, you might have to do these same two steps under /usr/share/quickly/templates/ubuntu-application-qt (as the qtquick template inherits commands from the qt template)
[15:06] <dpm> aquarius, and if that still does not work, then we'll probably need didrocks to lend a hand
[15:06] <aquarius> dpm, cool, I'll give that a try. (I'm a bit sad that I have to edit the system-level files, though. I hate doing that. / belongs to apt, not me. /home/aquarius belongs to me. :))
[15:08] <dpm> yeah, but the nice thing is that if that proves to work, then we'll commit a fix in the quickly-community-templates, it will get automatically packaged in the daily PPA, you'll be able to install it, and all /home will belong back to aquarius ;)
[15:09]  * aquarius laughs
[15:09] <dpm> aquarius, actually, I think you can install templates under any location, so you can copy them to your /home folder for the purposes of testing. Let me see if I can find out how to do that
[16:13] <aquarius> dpm, that sounds like a useful thing if it's possible...
[16:53] <Odd-rationale> Hello! I have a packaging question. In a bzr builddeb recipe, can I specify a local branch?
[17:06] <commandoline> Odd-rationale: local as in on your computer? Then the answer is no, launchpad is a web service.
[17:07] <Odd-rationale> commandoline: OK. Thanks.
[17:10] <Odd-rationale> OK. So I have a separate debian packaging branch. Is there a way to specify a different debian directory using debuild?
[17:11] <commandoline> sorry, I don't know. You can always try to just replace the directory in there?
[17:13] <Odd-rationale> Well the source branch does not have a debian/ directory. It is in a separate branch. Also, I don't think bzr supports nested branches.
[17:37] <commandoline> Odd-rationale: well, with the lp recipes, you can include a directory from another branch. On the local file system, you can just copy the debian dir into the target branch before building I'd say?
[17:39] <Odd-rationale> commandoline: Thought about that. Was hoping that there might be a more elegant solution. But thanks!
[17:46] <commandoline> well, there might well be, but I don't know it ;)
[17:46] <mspencer> Is this a good place to ask a question about how to set up a Quickly project?
[17:49] <commandoline> mspencer: It is, although there's #quickly too if nobody knows an answer here.
[17:50] <mspencer> How can I create a Quickly project named 'contributor-console' but have the source directory be 'contributorconsole', not 'contributor_console'?
[18:01] <Odd-rationale> Is it considered best practices to put the debian directory in a separate branch or as part of the source package?
[18:04] <JanC> Odd-rationale: a separate branch makes it possible to have different packaging per OS release
[18:55] <aquarius> mspencer, I don't think quickly knows the name of the folder it's in? So... you could just quickly create ubuntu-application contributor_console and then rename the folder?
[18:56] <mspencer> aquarius: Would the name of the project be used anywhere else?
[18:56] <aquarius> mspencer, good question, and I'm not sure. dpm, mhall119, ^^
[18:58] <mhall119> aquarius: mspencer: I don't belive that quickly cares what it's own folder is called
[18:58] <mhall119> bzr might though, I'm not sure
[18:58] <mspencer> Would it be possible to do 'quickly create contributor-console' and then run sed on all the files to replace contributor_console with contributorconsole?
[18:59] <mhall119> mspencer: that will probably break things unexpected ways
[18:59] <aquarius> mspencer, it might, but I suspect you'd screw up paths in that case... I assume quickly will create a contributor_console_lib folder and so on. I wouldn't fiddle with that too much if I were you,
[19:00] <mspencer> I didn't think it was a good idea anyway.
[19:01] <mspencer> mhall119: Even if it didn't, wouldn't the project name be used in other files, such as the executable?
[19:01] <mspencer> mhall119: I'm refering to the project name, not running sed.
[19:02] <mhall119> mspencer: a bunch of files refer to others by their filename or python module name
[19:03] <mspencer> So is it possible to tell quickly not to put a '_' in the source folder name when I create the project?
[19:05] <mspencer> This isn't a big deal, I just wanted the directory structure to match that of software-center, etc. where the project is called software-center but the source folder is called softwarecenter.
[19:08] <mspencer> I've also got several questions related to using a Launchpad project, is this a good place to ask?
[19:24] <aquarius> mhall119, if I've got a quickly template with a bug in it, what's the best way of fixing that bug and testing? Can I put a local copy of the template somewhere and have that override the one in /usr/share/quickly/templates?
[20:13] <mhall119> aquarius: quickly has a pretty thorough test suite, if it's one of the built-in templates
[20:14] <mhall119> aquarius: I don't remember if you can run a template outside of /usr/share/quickly.
[20:17] <mhall119> aquarius: ah ha!  It will search through an env variable called QUICKLY_TEMPLATES, containing colon-separated paths
[20:17] <mhall119> it will also check in ~/quickly-templates
[20:50] <aquarius> mhall119, superb!
[20:50] <aquarius> mhall119, thank you. I shall give that a try
[20:50] <aquarius> mhall119, it's one of the community templates, which are clearly not as well tested...
[20:51] <aquarius> although it would be nice if "quickly license" in the base template printed a warning if it couldn't find the author in the .ui files rather than exploded. :)
[20:54] <mhall119> aquarius: ubuntu-application really wasn't a suitable base template for qtquick
[20:55] <mhall119> in fact, none of them were really structured in a way that made them usable for derivative templates
[20:55] <mhall119> that's part of what I'm working on fixing in the reboot
[20:56] <aquarius> mhall119, so qtquick should have been a completely independent template?
[20:56] <aquarius> it seems to work OK so far, apart from the license thing, although I've only tried "quickly package"
[20:57] <mhall119> aquarius: ideally yeah, since so much of ubuntu-application assumes Python+Gtk
[20:58] <mhall119> I'm going to try and make some generic base templates that are re-usable for the reboot
[21:01] <aquarius> mhall119, yeah. I was hoping to make an app now, which is why I'm using the community template...


[00:52] <lee> Intrepid Ibex
[00:52] <lee> I am doing the Distribution Upgrade as we speak
[01:19] <G_009> ibex wireless worked "out-of-the-box" on a MT-3422 laptop; however there is no option to save hex key/passphrase yet so this must be done manually everytime you log back in session. but i'm glad to see the progress; never got it to work on 8.04 (same laptop)
[01:22] <DanaG> Ugh, bitpim is sooo buggy.
[01:23] <DanaG> IndexError: Trying to read<PHONE_NUMBER>L bytes starting at 20 which will go beyond end of 20 byte buffer.
[01:26] <DanaG> How do you get that ridiculous length of a buffer overflow?
[02:37] <virtualroadside> so just how unstable is idex? if its runnable, then im in.
[02:37] <virtualroadside> provided it has a newer version of xorg in it -- im looking for the hotplug support
[02:54] <hmuller> I need to file a bug for the intrepid iso on the oem install.  The user configuration hangs, which package should I file the bug on?
[05:16] <G_009> wierdly enough .. i could connect via wlan0, except at less than 54mbps (per 801.xx spec)...
[05:18] <G_009> without retyping hex key...
[05:19] <G_009> my impression was there was no automated way to store hex key
[05:23] <G_009> i like the dark theme .. i just dont think most would
[05:26] <G_009> i'll have to make a swap as well ... setup did not allow me to "intuitively" designate one (on a dual boot sys)
[05:30] <G_009> however.. it was great to connect using wlan0 for the 1st time on this laptop.. kudos to the ibex team
[05:34] <G_009> am allowing my battery to go completely dead for this occassion
[05:38] <G_009> nvidia-glx is installed and working but cannot enable compiz
[05:39] <G_009> and "cannot read from resource" is still an issue when attempting to play dvds
[05:43] <G_009> red light came up.. blink blink
[05:43] <G_009> thats like 10% left
[05:48] <G_009> .
[10:28] <bardyr> how can i define a cmd to a shortcut?
[10:40] <pheeror> Do you use compiz?
[10:41] <pheeror> if so, in ccsm choose general options - commands
[10:52] <bardyr> pheeror, thanks
[10:52] <pheeror> nope
[11:12] <kahrytan> Does Intrepid installs get automatic upgrades between releases?
[11:13] <pheeror> what do you mean?
[11:14] <pheeror> if i get it right alphaN are just snapshots of some packages from intrepid repo at the particular time
[11:15] <kahrytan> I think so cuz RC is automatic to final.
[11:47] <kahrytan> pheeror,  What i mean is, I wouldnt have to download alpha 2 and install
[12:05] <RAOF> kahrytan: There really is _no_ intrepid release until the final release (and, arguably, not even then).  The alphas are just a time when we try to make sure that Intrepid is installable, but you're using the same repositories that'll be used until we start on Intrepid+1
[12:06] <kahrytan> RAOF,  is that a joke?
[12:06] <RAOF> No, not at all.
[12:06] <kahrytan> parts were
[12:06] <RAOF> The "release" is an entirely social thing.
[12:07] <RAOF> The underlying architecture doesn't know anything about the alphas/RCs/release.
[12:07] <kahrytan> Alpha's mean nothing  i know
[12:08] <RAOF> And the release has the same quality.  It's not that they mean nothing, it's just that their existance is a social artefact.
[12:09] <RAOF> The reason it's a release is that we stop pushing new packages to it (hopefully because we've removed all the major bugs).
[12:09] <kahrytan> you are trying to be funny
[12:09] <bullgard4> GNOME Window Selector lists some programs in bold but most in a normal font. What does the bold font mean?
[14:03] <user_> starting up the installer i386 in virtualbox from upstream on hardy x64 host gives: "unable to handle kernel" so far i havent found a report for this. am i missing it?
[14:24] <kahrytan> user_,  Intrepid has allot of issues on vbox
[14:24] <user_> kahrytan: then theres no need to file a report?
[14:24] <kahrytan> user_,  hows the usplash screen in vbox?
[14:25] <user_> kahrytan: works, changed keymap to german and started (language remained set to english)
[14:25] <kahrytan> doh. It works for me but barely. weird glitches
[14:26] <user_> kahrytan: should i file a report, os is it too obvious at that stage of development..?
[14:27] <kahrytan> user_, Did you repeat it and log it?
[14:27] <user_> kahrytan: whats "log it"?
[14:28] <Hobbsee> user_: it's probably too early.
[14:28] <Hobbsee> user_: the kernel is really still quite new in there
[14:28] <user_> Hobbsee: ok, thanks for your insight
[14:28] <Hobbsee> you're welcome.
[14:28] <kahrytan> it's new period.
[14:29] <kahrytan> Their using nonreleased kernel in intrepid. im glad. I need to do hardware testing.
[14:29] <pheeror> hmm, 2.6.26 doesn't even boot on my laptop
[14:30] <pheeror> actually it boots, but then there is problem with alocating init
[14:30] <kahrytan> 2.6.26 has cx18 driver in it
[14:30] <pheeror> same intrepid, 2.6.24 kernel works fine
[15:26] <user_> where can i get linux kernel .config for intrepid?
[15:32] <bardyr> user_, /proc or /boot
[15:32] <bardyr> /boot/config-2.6.26-2-generic
[15:33] <user_> and where could i get it from the web, as i cannot boot intrepid yet?
[15:33] <bardyr> the kernel source package?
[15:34] <bardyr> or i can upload it somewhere if you want
[15:34] <user_> yes, i have quite problems locating packages on launchpad. i love packages.debian.org but i cant find the analous place on launchpad
[15:34] <user_> trying to find source packages..
[15:35] <user_> ah, ok, after more then 5 minutes
[15:35] <user_> bardyr: thank you
[15:36] <bardyr> ubuntu had a packages.ubuntu.com too
[15:37] <user_> launchpad makes me feel very silly
[15:38] <bardyr> user_, http://download.yousendit.com/FA08A5F365E43692
[15:42] <user_> bardyr: great, thanks, only 3 options to manually answer for vanilla rc8. thanks very much
[15:42] <bardyr> np
[15:52] <ph8> hey all, can anyone tell me how to switch to ibex packages in apt? i tried just changing hardy to ibex but no dice. I would install straight-ibex on this, my test machine but the installer freezes - hence i'm trying this route, hardy -> ibex
[15:59] <ph8> ah got it :)
[16:35] <ph8> would anyone like to tell me where to start looking when intrepid won't boot into recovery or normal? It was a dist-upgrade from hardy, it appears to briefly do some preliminary bits then the screen goes blank
[16:55] <NielsE> I've installed the alpha with the cd, but now 7.10 won't load anymore (I see that the kernel is being loaded, then black screen), vista does still fine though
[16:55] <NielsE> the grub parameters don't seem to be anything different
[16:56] <user_> NielsE: you can still choose the older working kernel from the grub menu?
[16:56] <NielsE> the recovery mode of 7.10 does work too (same kernel)
[16:56] <NielsE> other kernel does the same thing
[16:57] <NielsE> ls /home/ is empty... (7.10)
[16:58] <NielsE> I saw in vista that my /home/ partition was still intact
[16:58] <user_> NielsE: possible, that the new kernel cannot access the HD. boot with the older kernel.
[16:59] <NielsE> I'm now in recovery mode of gutsy, I havn't started intrepid yet
[17:00] <user_> NielsE: you need to reboot and in the grub menu choose the old kernel
[17:01] <NielsE> I tried to start gutsy, but that is the problem, gutsy wont start anymore, i did not do an upgrade
[17:01] <NielsE> I installed intrepid with the cd on another partition
[17:05] <NielsE> intrepid (with the latest version) works just fine (for an alpha)
[17:07] <pheeror> on my laptop it works better than hardy (:
[17:26] <user_> hmm, why cant i find linux source 2.6.24 on ubuntu launchpad package search? does it exist? 2.6.22 f.e. is there
[17:52] <NielsE> I got my gutsy working again, the uuid's were changed, so fstab did'nt have the right values, now it boots up just fine
[18:23] <G_009> observation: network manager does save hex key; but it wasn't apparent since i had to do it a few times 'til it stuck.  but now am connected at 48mb/s of the expected 54mb/s
[18:24] <G_009> (wlan0)
[18:32] <G_009> network device: [loopback]  changed to [wireless interface], tried running config on it: interface does not exist. but it gives me a bunch of info about it. silly.
[18:37] <teethdood> is 8.04.1 going to be a simple update or a major update? (ie intrepid)
[18:41] <rsk> teethdood: simple
[18:42] <rsk> mostly fixes for installation and just bundling all security/bug-updated
[18:42] <rsk> updates
[18:53] <teethdood> politics aside, would you use vmware or virtualbox (I need access to USB/all peripherals). Willing to pay
[18:54] <rsk> teethdood: use kvm
[18:55] <teethdood> rsk: ay caramba! I was told by someone else to use QEMU too
[18:55] <rsk> =)
[18:55] <teethdood> needless to say this is one of those instances where choice is bad (ie confusing)
[18:56] <teethdood> rsk: please do tell me more about kvm, why you like it
[18:56] <rsk> cause it is in the mainline kernel and can do 3d =)
[18:56] <teethdood> does the VM get complete access to USB?
[18:57] <teethdood> I'm hooking an X-ray machine to the VM. It uses USB, software only runs on windows
[18:59] <rsk> well
[18:59] <rsk> you think linux can run windows ?
[19:00] <pheeror> kvm can do 3D?
[19:00] <pheeror> sounds interesting
[19:00] <teethdood> if you're alluding to WINE, no this piece of software will not run on WINE
[19:01] <rsk> dont know what alluding means
[19:01] <selckin> vmware is pritty solid, and if you're willing to pay good for support
[19:01] <pheeror> oh you refered to that vnc hack, didnt you
[19:03] <teethdood> there should be a ratings system for all these VM software
[19:03] <rsk> no need for talking about doing stuff
[19:03] <pheeror> but kvm looks good anyway, bad luck i don't have necessary hardware
[19:03] <rsk> if you want somethinf done, but do it yourself
[19:03] <rsk> or pay someone to do it
[19:03] <rsk> easy as that
[19:41] <G_009> insert dvd. mount dvd. play dvd: fail - reason: cannot read from resource.   totem gstreamer ugly set. same as in 8.04
[19:48] <DanaG> !libdvdcss
[19:48] <DanaG> perhaps?
[20:57] <MaximLevitsky> I have just one question
[20:57] <MaximLevitsky> Will the NewHuman replace human style, and why?
[20:59] <gnomefreak> MaximLevitsky: thats more than 1 question and its way too early to know
[20:59] <gnomefreak> artwork is one of last things to be added, you might get more help in #ubuntu-artwork
[21:00] <MaximLevitsky> I ***Hate*** this style
[21:00] <rsk> MaximLevitsky: easy enough to change >(
[21:00] <rsk> :)
[21:00] <gnomefreak> MaximLevitsky: the dark one?
[21:00] <MaximLevitsky> yes, but you know, the default is updated...
[21:00] <gnomefreak> MaximLevitsky: that wont be final
[21:00] <MaximLevitsky> yes, the dark one
[21:00] <rsk> and not the other non-defaults?
[21:00] <rsk> seems weird to mee
[21:01] <MaximLevitsky> usially
[21:01] <gnomefreak> it is very unlikey that will stay
[21:01] <MaximLevitsky> For example I used kde just before some time
[21:01] <gnomefreak> problems in viewing level 2 menus
[21:01] <MaximLevitsky> I then tried KDE4
[21:01] <gnomefreak> kde4 is broken in intrepid
[21:01] <gnomefreak> its not installable
[21:02] <MaximLevitsky> I didn't like Oxygen style at all, so I tried to switch to plastic
[21:02] <rsk> but KDE4 is still in beta. gnome 2.22 is not.
[21:02] <gnomefreak> yay this might finally build :)
[21:02] <rsk> so that dosen't apply
[21:02] <gnomefreak> kde4 is final kde4.1 is in beta
[21:03] <rsk> urm. ok
[21:03] <gnomefreak> or 4.0.1 cant remember the versioning atm
[21:03] <MaximLevitsky> But plasic still doesn't look like it used to look, I mean generally default is the most developed, and tested against
[21:03] <gnomefreak> kde4 isnt default
[21:03] <MaximLevitsky> It is just an analogy
[21:03]  * gnomefreak wonders why its building debs :(
[21:04] <DanaG> I believe I've shown my screenshot of my theme, right?
[21:04] <DanaG> http://picpaste.com/screenshot-orange-nodoka.png
[21:04] <rsk> no idea
[21:04] <gnomefreak> ah thats my fault. brb so i can get this done
[21:04] <MaximLevitsky> I now use Gnome, and I kindof like it more a bit
[21:06] <MaximLevitsky> Btw, anybody know how I can export a text file in window CLRF encoding in gedit?
[21:06] <MaximLevitsky> I mean create, and export
[21:06] <AtomicSpark> where can i find the latest iso for intrepid? i'd like to put up a vm and see how its going.
[21:06] <rsk> ubuntu.com
[21:07] <AtomicSpark> rsk, very funny. :P
[21:07] <rsk> :)
[21:07] <gnomefreak> ok alien-arena is done  :)
[21:07] <gnomefreak> AtomicSpark: there isnt one yet
[21:07] <rsk> i almost cried when i tried alien-arena
[21:08] <gnomefreak> aplha 1 will be next week IIRC
[21:08] <rsk> AtomicSpark: there is an alternative alpha1
[21:08] <rsk> but no usual iso
[21:08] <MaximLevitsky> Anybody else notice that some icons aren't from human theme
[21:08] <rsk> aka liveCD
[21:08] <gnomefreak> someone wanted 7.0-2 backported to hardy so i did :)
[21:08] <rsk> i hope urban terror will be in ibex
[21:09] <rsk> and warsow :)
[21:09] <AtomicSpark> rsk, i usually get alts when running vms. live cds tend to never work. :P
[21:09] <rsk> yep, unless you run kvm
[21:09] <rsk> ;)
[21:09] <rsk> that has 3dsupport and yadda yadda yadda.
[21:10] <AtomicSpark> i use virtmanager. which has kvm still i believe.
[21:10] <AtomicSpark> found this with google http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/intrepid/alpha-1/ :P
[21:12] <gnomefreak> AtomicSpark: ill recheck my devel announcent but i though next thursday was release of A1
[21:12] <MaximLevitsky> Everything seems to work fine here
[21:12] <gnomefreak> maybe it was thursday
[21:12] <MaximLevitsky> (I use custom kernel - this is the reson)
[21:12] <MaximLevitsky> reson/reason
[21:14] <gnomefreak> oh damn]
[21:15] <AtomicSpark> i just hope i set up virtmanager correctly. its very different from the old qemu/kvm setup. :P
[21:16] <AtomicSpark> i used the official server guide, so i should be fine.
[21:18] <AtomicSpark> gnomefreak, whats sad is a lot of people dont seem to read or care about that disclaimer :\
[21:19] <MaximLevitsky> I did, and I say that Interpid works fine here
[21:19] <gnomefreak> AtomicSpark: People shouldnt use it at all IMHO as there is alot of breakage that im working on to fix
[21:20] <gnomefreak> ,AtomicSpark it doesnt work fine anywhere (depending on what packages you use
[21:20] <gnomefreak> MaximLevitsky: ^^^
[21:20] <AtomicSpark> lol
[21:20] <MaximLevitsky> Here it does
[21:20] <gnomefreak> example kubuntu-kde4-desktop cant be installed
[21:20] <AtomicSpark> i'll probably install it. see whats different. and shut it down. :P
[21:20] <MaximLevitsky> Thre small bugs, but some bugs are fixed
[21:20] <gnomefreak> as well as crashes in gedit
[21:21] <gnomefreak> and so on and so forth.
[21:21] <gnomefreak> MaximLevitsky: i would say a -desktop package that cant be installed is a big problem
[21:21] <MaximLevitsky> Obivosly
[21:22] <gnomefreak> also toiol chain is really the only thing that has changed there are still alo tof merges to do and when they get done you will see breakge
[21:22] <MaximLevitsky> But some bugs are fixed
[21:22] <MaximLevitsky> For exmple it has new lm-sensors
[21:23] <AtomicSpark> gnomefreak, so i can't see the new design yet? :(
[21:23] <MaximLevitsky> AtomicSpark, the dark one you mean?
[21:23] <gnomefreak> AtomicSpark: no very little artwork has started if you look on the page in topic you might beablet o see the thoughts (there should be a link from that wiki)
[21:24] <gnomefreak> be back im kind of breaking things
[21:26] <MaximLevitsky> Btw, will ubuntu switch to new /dev/rtc0 driver?
[21:26] <MaximLevitsky> rtc-cmos driver ?
[21:28] <AtomicSpark> MaximLevitsky, does it blend?
[21:29] <gnomefreak> MaximLevitsky: dont know i havent seen anyone talk about it. If you want to know what will happen try going to the link in the topic or searching intrepid on wiki.ubuntu.com there are always wikis on suggestions of artwork and/or things that will be added
[21:29] <MaximLevitsky> It doesn't, but it rings well
[21:29] <gnomefreak> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=intrepid&titlesearch=Titles
[21:30] <gnomefreak> first 39 of them are on artwork
[21:30] <gnomefreak> make that it starts on #3
[21:30] <MaximLevitsky> Thanks a lot
[21:31] <gnomefreak> oh i forgot i have a ideas wiki :(
[21:31] <gnomefreak> oh well tomorrow i will update it i think
[21:31] <AtomicSpark> haha. one of them makes it look like an orange mac.
[21:34] <DanaG> Oh yeah, one major breakage for me: printing.
[21:34] <DanaG> Totally broken.  foomatic-rip fails.
[21:34] <DanaG> I had to roll back to the Hardy foomatic-filters package.
[22:45] <DanaG> QtCore/qglobal.h: No such file or directory
[22:50] <DanaG> !find qglobal.h
[22:50] <DanaG> Aah.
[22:51] <DanaG> Headers?  Not -dev?  No wonder I couldn't find it....
[22:56] <DanaG> But I have those installed!
[22:58] <DanaG> Complete error is this: /usr/include/kdemacros.h:162:29: error: QtCore/qglobal.h: No such file or directory
[22:59] <DanaG> Anybody happen to know how to fix that?
[23:05] <DanaG> !find QtCore/qglobal.h
[23:36] <rainwalker> 8.10 is the release that gets the visual refresh, right?
[23:41] <RAOF> So I've heard.
[23:50] <gnomefreak> artwork is last thing to go in
[23:50] <gnomefreak> until its in we knwo nothing


[04:19] <carlos> "morning"
[04:19] <daf> heh :)
[04:19] <daf> did you have an exam?
[04:20] <carlos> daf: I had, but I was not able to do it
[04:20] <carlos> I did not finished a program I need to do the exam
[04:20] <carlos> and I went to sleep at 6:00AM
[04:20] <daf> ouch
[04:20] <carlos> yes, really sad
[04:20] <carlos> I hate powerbuilder!!!
[04:20] <carlos> it's the second time I have this problem
[04:20] <kiko> there are worse things in life
[04:21] <carlos> kiko: I know
[04:21] <daf> powerbuilder?
[04:21] <carlos> daf: yes, the program they request use should be developed with powerbuilder
[04:21] <carlos> grr, I really hate xchat's autocompletation
[04:22] <carlos> or perhaps was my problem ...
[04:22] <carlos> well, back to work, that's the important thing...
[04:23] <daf> indeed
[04:23] <kiko> SteveA, debonzi is hung up with tla again
[04:24] <kiko> SteveA, any hope we can get some traction on the issue asap?
[04:24] <daf> carlos: shall we talk about tasks for a bit?
[04:24] <carlos> daf: yes, please.
[04:24] <daf> kiko: I think it's dependent on ddaa
[04:24] <kiko> daf, ugh, really?
[04:24] <daf> kiko: from listening in #canonical
[04:24] <carlos> daf: We should add all remaining ones to bugzilla so we could see what's missing easily
[04:25] <daf> carlos: good idea
[04:25] <carlos> daf: here or should we move to #rosetta?
[04:25] <daf> I think here is ok
[04:26] <carlos> ok
[04:27] <daf> what are we missing from Bugzilla?
[04:28] <SteveA> kiko: I saw lifeless and ddaa discussing it on #canonical.  I saw that lifeless asked ddaa to make it a priority.
[04:29] <kiko> okay, because we're blocked by tla (once again)
[04:29] <SteveA> carlos: we're not using #rosetta any more
[04:29] <carlos> daf: the import of all projects we have already inside arch
[04:29] <carlos> SteveA: ok
[04:30] <SteveA> kiko: you can still write code, although it will be outside the SCM system.
[04:30] <daf> carlos: hmm, this doesn't really feel like something that belongs in bugzilla
[04:30] <carlos> it's a task
[04:30] <kiko> SteveA, writing code and not committing frequently with arch seems to be a recipe for disaster in our experience :)
[04:30] <carlos> if we are going to use it as task/bug tracking, I think it belongs to bugzilla
[04:31] <SteveA> kiko: I can't offer any help above what ddaa can do for you.
[04:31] <daf> I suppose so, but it feels like abusing bugzilla a bit :)
[04:31] <kiko> sure, I'm just communicating our situation.
[04:31] <carlos> daf: It's something that blocks the alpha release :-)
[04:31] <SteveA> thanks.  I understand that it is extremely frustrating.
[04:31] <daf> carlos: is there anything else?
[04:31] <carlos> daf: we also need to add "Request new project page"
[04:32] <kiko> we'll find some more offline work we can do meanwhile.
[04:32] <SteveA> ok, thanks.
[04:32] <carlos> and " View recently translated projects on the translator dashboard."
[04:32] <daf> okay, can you make it a task to file bugs for these things?
[04:33] <carlos> daf: and I think that nothing more is missing from RosettaAlpha page
[04:33] <carlos> daf: sure.
[04:33] <carlos> well, the import projects from arch...
[04:33] <carlos> has some tasks like the scripts to do it
[04:34] <carlos> the main one that imports .po/.pot files is done
[04:34] <carlos> but we need one to create projects and products
[04:34] <daf> I need to file a bug for the import code
[04:34] <daf> the import script isn't working for me: all the sequence numbers in the template I import are 0
[04:35] <daf> I think it's some sort of SQLObject problem
[04:35] <carlos> daf: I filed some bugs about the export also
[04:35] <carlos> seems like the code is not in sync with latest interface
[04:35] <daf> I think I've fixed the export
[04:35] <daf> but the traversal is not working
[04:36] <carlos> did you saw bugzilla's bug #1912? is it fixed ?
[04:36] <daf> yeah, I saw it
[04:36] <carlos> daf: I was not able to test the traversal because the export bugs
[04:36] <daf> I think it is fixed
[04:36] <daf> I will commit and merge soon
[04:37] <carlos> daf: ok, I will review then the traversal code and finish it
[04:37] <carlos> is the #1909 also fixed?
[04:37] <carlos> (the one about the % problem)
[04:37] <SteveA> back in about an hour
[04:37] <daf> it hasn't been merged yet
[04:38] <daf> stub has a fix which we can use
[04:38] <daf> if we use his Zope branch, there's no problem
[04:39] <carlos> daf: then I think that's the problem with the traversal to export .po files. But I will review it in case it's another problem...
[04:40] <carlos> daf: what's lalo working on now?
[04:40] <daf> I don't know
[04:40] <daf> I haven't heard from lalo since Friday
[04:40] <carlos> Could I assume that any task that it's not assigned at bugzilla to lalo is free to implement?
[04:40] <carlos> hmm
[04:40] <carlos> ok
[04:41] <daf> at the moment, anything is up for grabs
[04:41] <daf> feel free to assign bugs to yourself
[04:41] <carlos> daf: who is importing code to arch?
[04:41] <carlos> because I suppose we need to talk with them and know how to get the source to feed our database
[04:42] <daf> not sure: lifeless or lamont or thom?
[04:42] <carlos> daf: I forgot another task, we need to create the webpage with the list of projects/products from Ubuntu
[04:43] <daf> okay, it's another bug then
[04:43] <carlos> well, and of course, we need "limi's magic" to all pages before release
[04:44] <carlos> I will see if he has a bugzilla account
[04:44] <carlos> and I will add also that bug
[04:45] <daf> the export fix looks like this: http://muse.19inch.net/~daf/misc/export-fix.patch
[04:46] <daf> does it look sane?
[04:48] <daf> carlos: ?
[04:48] <carlos> daf: looking
[04:49] <carlos> daf: yes, I think it's valid
[04:49] <daf> in that case, I'll merge it now
[04:50] <carlos> my question about it is, should that file use the sqlobject api or only the interfaces?
[04:50] <daf> the exporter should not know anything about SQLObject, I think
[04:50] <daf> it shouldn't need to
[04:51] <carlos> ok
[04:51] <carlos> daf: anything else?
[04:52] <carlos> daf: who should be the initial owner of the tasks I'm going to add?
[04:53] <daf> me
[04:53] <carlos> ok
[04:54] <daf> unless you know it's something you're going to work on yourself
[04:54] <daf> in which case it's you :)
[04:54] <carlos> :-P
[04:54] <carlos> daf: we should use the QA field
[04:54] <daf> how does that work?
[04:55] <carlos> daf: it's someone that gets the bug reports like the owner and it's useful to track the fixes
[04:55] <carlos> and follow the status of the tasks
[04:56] <daf> it's like a CC?
[04:56] <carlos> usually,  the project owner is the one added there
[04:56] <carlos> daf: more or less
[04:56] <carlos> daf: but it's added by default always
[04:57] <daf> ok
[04:57] <daf> where do we set it?
[04:57] <carlos> I don't know if you have the rights to do it, you should edit the launchpad product
[04:57] <carlos> and select the rosetta module
[04:58] <daf> I'm not sure if I have rights to do that
[04:58] <carlos> there you have a default assigned and the default QA
[04:58] <carlos> another option is to use an alias for the team so we can know the status of the bugs
[04:59] <daf> let's try the QA thing for now
[04:59] <daf> justdave: about?
[04:59] <justdave> daf: yep
[05:00] <daf> justdave: did you follow that about QA?
[05:01] <justdave> not exactly...  you want someone added to the qa for rosetta, but I didn't follow who. :)
[05:01] <justdave> conversation looks like you, but you're already the owner
[05:01] <justdave> but that would make sense if you're trying to stay in the loop even if someone else takes the bug
[05:02] <kiko> or maybe a rosetta-bugs mailing list so everyone can stay in the loop if they want to.
[05:04] <daf> kiko: hmm, maybe
[05:04] <daf> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/chart.cgi?category=-All-&subcategory=-All-&name=181&select0=1&label0=Open+Launchpad+bugs&line0=133&datefrom=&dateto=&action-wrap=Chart+This+List
[05:06] <daf> justdave: is it possible to save charts?
[05:06] <daf> justdave: it would be nice to have "open Launchpad bugs" and "open Rosetta bugs" charts
[05:07] <justdave> people keep asking that, and Gerv keeps telling them "just bookmark it"
[05:07] <justdave> I had to fight him to keep saved queries :)
[05:07] <daf> saved queries are very useful
[05:08] <daf> I think application-specific bookmarks make sense
[05:08] <daf> it's the same in Rosetta - you want to find certain things quickly
[05:08] <justdave> Easiest thing for us to do right now is probably just collect the URLs for the ones we want, and stick up a static page with the links on it.
[05:09] <daf> that would do the job
[05:22] <carlos> daf: I think we have all tasks now at bugzilla
[05:23] <daf> I hope so :)
[05:24] <carlos> daf: :-P
[06:10] <lalo> hello
[06:12] <jblack> debonzi: ping
[06:15] <kiko-fud> jblack, he's out of office right now, how's it going?
[06:16] <jblack> Its going well. I've got a fix ready for him.
[06:16] <lalo> hey James
[06:16] <jblack> lalo!
[06:16] <kiko-fud> jblack, cool, can you use email, perhaps to launchpad, summarizing and providing the fix?
[06:17] <jblack> Um, well, the thing about this sort of fix is that its probably not right for you guys to do it unattended.
[06:17] <jblack> the solution involves artfully dodging race conditions.
[06:18] <jblack> For a longterm fix, tla needs to change.
[06:18] <kiko-fud> maybe I don't want to know after all :)
[06:18] <spiv> Yow :)
[06:22] <SteveA> oh.  we broke tom lord's arch...
[06:22] <jblack> Nope.
[06:22] <carlos> lalo: hi
[06:22] <lalo> hey carlos
[06:23] <lulu> lalo: howzit
[06:23] <jblack> You guys are just frequently bumping into a edge case in star-merge.
[06:23] <lalo> lulu: not sure yet, I'll tell you in a few minutes after I'm done merging :-P
[06:23] <lulu> lalo:good to hear you're merging! :o)
[06:25] <lalo> oh, found the thing I wanted in the merge. Then I can answer you, all is well :-D
[06:26] <lalo> I was worried I had introduced a bug Friday that would require me a few hours of hunting down - but no, it was just a typo and is already fixed by Daf
[06:28] <carlos> lalo: we are using now bugzilla to track the pending tasks/bugs
[06:29] <carlos> lalo: I suppose your mailbox knows it already  :-P
[06:29] <lalo> I know
[06:29] <lalo> yes :-)
[06:32] <daf> lalo: good to have you back :)
[06:33] <lalo> daf: thanks
[06:34] <lalo> but I wasn't gone for long, just an unexpectedly extended holiday :-P
[06:38] <lalo> hey Mark
[06:40] <daf> carlos: can you check whether #1912 is fixed?
[06:40] <carlos> daf: already done :-P
[06:41] <daf> carlos: and is it?
[06:41] <carlos> daf: the export still fails because the #1909
[06:41] <daf> oh, right
[06:41] <carlos> daf: yes, seems like it's working
[06:41] <daf> I'll change the server
[06:41] <daf> to use stub's branch
[06:42] <carlos> daf: which branch is it?
[06:42] <daf><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:42] <carlos> ok
[06:42] <carlos> thanks
[06:42] <carlos> when will it be integrated into the default branch?
[06:42] <lalo> does the "make testdb" target still apply all necessary scripts to have a working testing database?
[06:43] <lalo> my ftests are failing with some funny postgres errors that suggest by db is incomplete
[06:43] <daf> carlos: when lifeless gets around to it
[06:43] <carlos> lalo: make launchpad_test at launchpad/database/schema should work
[06:44] <carlos> daf: ok
[06:44] <lalo> carlos: that's exactly what "make testdb" is a wrapper for :-/ doesn't work for me
[06:44] <lalo>     ProgrammingError: ERROR:  column translationeffortpotemplate.id does not exist
[06:45] <lalo> daf: yay, thanks!
[06:45] <daf> lalo: hmm?
[06:45] <lalo> your new bug explains the old one, I think :-)
[06:45] <daf> oh, right :)
[06:46] <lalo> I believe, when looking for whether to insert a new msgset or update an existing one, it must be missing the existing one due to it having sequence 0
[06:46] <carlos> lalo: do you have a sampledata-rosetta.sql inside the database directory and an empty sampledata.sql file ?
[06:46] <lalo> yes
[06:47] <carlos> then I don't know where is the problem, I did a rebuild of my database about 30 minutes ago...
[06:47] <carlos> it should work
[06:50] <daf> carlos: okay, the development server is now using stub's branch -- can you try again?
[06:50] <carlos> sure
[06:51] <carlos> daf: I get the file
[06:51] <daf> great!
[06:51] <daf> I'll close the bug
[06:51] <carlos> I need to check if it's correct :-)
[06:51] <carlos> daf: perfect
[06:52] <daf> :)
[06:52] <daf> carlos: can you also do some testing of submitting/updating translations through the web?
[06:52] <lalo> daf: do you have a preference on how to fix this? Should potemplate/pofile have methods that return a given msgset *even if* it has sequence 0?
[06:52] <carlos> hmm seems like all works execpt for this bug:
[06:52] <carlos> #: a11y/addressbook/ea-minicard-view.c:101
[06:52] <carlos> msgid "current addressbook folder"
[06:52] <carlos> msgstr[0]  "carpeta de libretas de direcciones actual"
[06:52] <lalo> this bug was, I as expected, introduced by removing the allowOld semantics :-)
[06:52] <carlos> all translations are exported that way
[06:53] <lalo> carlos: oh
[06:53] <carlos> daf: yes, I will do it in some minutes
[06:53] <carlos> lalo: https://rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com/++skin++Debug/rosetta/projects/gnome/evolution/evolution-2.0/export.po
[06:53] <daf> lalo: well, since new translations from the web have sequence=0, you quite often need to deal with 0-sequenced message sets
[06:53] <lalo> carlos: I think the current way the adapters work is a bit baffling for the pofile's __unicode__ method
[06:53] <daf> carlos: if the export is broken, can you file a bug?
[06:53] <lalo> carlos: if there isn't a bug, please submit it, I'll fix next thing
[06:54] <carlos> daf: and the traversal algorithm I did fails O:-)
[06:54] <carlos> daf: sure
[06:54] <carlos> lalo: sure
[06:54] <carlos> :-)
[06:54] <carlos> daf: are you happy with the .po/.mo URL: https://rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com/++skin++Debug/rosetta/projects/gnome/evolution/evolution-2.0/es/po
[06:54] <lalo> daf: then pofile.__getitem__ should not require that sequence > 0
[06:54] <carlos> ?
[06:55] <lalo> what about potemplate? a template msgset with sequence 0 is, in theory, obsolete
[06:55] <daf> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/showdependencygraph.cgi?id=1915 is fun
[06:55] <lalo> pofile.__getitem__ is ok (not broken), so this is just about templates
[06:55] <daf> carlos: yeah, that would be sufficient
[06:55] <carlos> ok
[06:56] <daf> lalo: I suspect that there are a few bogus "WHERE sequence > 0" in the SQL code
[06:56] <daf> I think I fixed a few
[06:58] <lalo> but in the case of potemplate.__getitem__ it's not bogus
[07:00] <lalo> well, before I do anything I must find why my database doesn't want to run the tests :-)
[07:02] <daf> lalo: how is your laptop now?
[07:02] <lalo> non-existent :-)
[07:02] <daf> lalo: how is your desktop now?
[07:02] <daf> :)
[07:03] <lalo> healthy
[07:03] <daf> that's good to hear
[07:03] <lalo> new mobo, 512 ram... there are still some some disagreements between hardware and drivers, but I'm not in a hurry to fix those
[07:05] <lalo> (eg my video card thinks my monitor is widescreen, so I'm at 1024x512 :-P but that doesn't affect work, so it's ok)
[07:18] <carlos> daf: I don't see a way to see the spaces when translating strings from rosetta...
[07:22] <daf> carlos: oh, yeah, I had forgotten about that
[07:23] <daf> carlos: I tried replacing all spaces with a space marker
[07:23] <daf> but that causes nasty problems with wrapping
[07:23] <daf> so I decided it would probably be ok to only mark leading and trailing spaces
[07:23] <lalo> well, I think I fixed it - now I have to become able to run the tests :-)
[07:23] <daf> but I haven't done that yet, so could you file a bug?
[07:24] <daf> lalo: fixed what?
[07:24] <carlos> daf: sure
[07:24] <lalo> aha
[07:24] <lalo> carlos: can you run the ftests?maybe my db is fine but the ftests are not
[07:25] <carlos> lalo: ok, just a minute I finish testing translations from rosetta
[07:25] <lalo> np
[07:26] <carlos> daf: ok, the translation works
[07:26] <carlos> daf: could you check it's already inside the database?
[07:26] <daf> carlos: hmm?
[07:27] <daf> carlos: if it's showing you the translations you put in, it works
[07:27] <daf> carlos: you could also test it by doing an export
[07:28] <carlos> daf: it's a way to test if it's not stored into the python objects
[07:28] <daf> carlos: sorry?
[07:29] <carlos> daf: I mean, I want to be sure that the information we get is stored into the database instead of being persistent data stored into python objects
[07:29] <carlos> that will be lost when launchpad is killed
[07:32] <daf> carlos: I think the database object are destroyed at the end of the request
[07:32] <daf> carlos: sorry, Python objects
[07:32] <carlos> ok
[07:32] <carlos> daf: I detected some bugs, filling them now
[07:32] <daf> great, thanks
[07:42] <lalo> pff.
[07:42] <lalo> daf: re "fixed what?" - 1905
[07:43] <daf> lalo: ah, great!
[07:44] <daf> what was the problem?
[07:45] <lalo> what I just said
[07:45] <lalo>         try:
[07:45] <lalo>             msgset = self.potemplate[msgid]
[07:45] <lalo>         except KeyError:
[07:45] <lalo>             msgset = self.potemplate.createMessageSetFromText(msgid)
[07:45] <daf> oh, I see
[07:45] <lalo> potemplate.__getitem__ ignores sets with sequence=0, so it will insert a duplicate
[07:46] <lalo> I added a new method that doesn't :-( do minimize code duplication, I made __getitem__ a wrapper around this new method
[07:46] <daf> potemplate.createMessageSetFromText should have probably check against duplication
[07:47] <lalo> hmm yes
[07:47] <lalo> the code that did that was removed together with allowOld :-P I'll re-add it
[07:47] <lalo> ok, cya tomorrow
[07:47] <daf> I'll be back later
[07:47] <lalo> cya later then :-)
[07:47] <daf> and I'll probably be up until some strange hour in the morning :)
[07:48] <carlos> daf: later!!
[07:48] <lalo> actually the method shouldn't *have to* check for duplicates... the db should be raising an error
[07:49] <daf> lalo: hmm, if it's possible for the database to do that, it should
[07:49] <carlos> lalo: there are still some unique keys missing
[07:49] <lalo> daf: that's what unique is for
[07:50] <lalo> and createMessageIDSighting() should *definitely* "allowOld" by default - everything will become too hairy if it doesn't
[07:50] <SteveA> sabdf1: ping.  just tried to phone you.
[07:51] <lalo> or maybe not, dunno. We'll get back to it later if it causes a problem :-P (yagni)
[07:51] <daf> I'm getting concerned about update=False and allowOld=False and things like this
[07:52] <daf> but I'm not going to worry about it too much now
[07:52] <lalo> getting concerned? I thought these were already removed from existence
[07:52] <daf> I think there are still a few left
[07:53] <daf> I'm also a bit worried about having .encode('utf-8') sprinkled over the code
[07:53] <lalo> we shouldn't
[07:53] <daf> carlos: #1938 and #1939 are interesting
[07:53] <lalo> technically sqlo is already fixed wrt unicode
[07:53] <daf> no, we shouldn't -- that's why I'm worried :)
[07:54] <lalo> you can, if you wish, schedule a task to "remove these one by one and see which ones are still necessary"
[07:54] <carlos> phone
[07:54] <lalo> then find why they are necessary and report them to spiv :-)
[07:54] <lalo> I suspect we will find that they can all be gone
[07:55] <spiv> Hmm? :)
[07:55] <spiv> Where are these?
[07:55] <lalo> places where we avoid passing unicodes to sqlo
[07:55] <lalo> I think as of now sqlo is already smart enough to deal with unicodes all the time
[07:58] <lalo> yeah, well, 1905 is fixed indeed - the test still doesn't pass due to 1935 :-(
[08:24] <lalo> carlos: I need a way to test 1936 locally :-)
[08:25] <carlos> lalo: change rosetta... with localhost :-P
[08:25] <lalo> are the hooks in-place enough that that would work?
[08:26] <lalo> traversal hooks I mean
[08:26] <lalo> what a silly question, seeing as rosetta.w.h.c runs from rocketfuel :-P
[08:27] <carlos> lalo: the export.po is not the final traversal we will use
[08:27] <carlos> but it works for testing the export code
[08:27] <carlos> it will be fixed always to the Spanish translation
[08:27] <lalo> ok
[08:28] <lalo> thx
[08:28] <lalo> anyway I'll first prod the ftest till it runs
[08:29] <lalo> fortunately the ftest output is smart enough to tell me whether the bug is fixed :-)
[08:30] <carlos> I'm going to test it now here (I was changing somethings from my launchpad installation)
[08:30] <lalo> the ftests are lost wrt. RosettaProject vs. xxxRosettaProject
[08:31] <carlos> lalo: FAILED (failures=3, errors=2)
[08:31] <carlos> lalo: I think you should use DBProject instead of xxxRosettaProject
[08:31] <carlos> that was part of the SteveA's move to global objects across launchpad applications
[08:31] <lalo> for the tests, whatever works is ok
[08:33] <SteveA> don't use the classes with xxx in the names
[08:33] <SteveA> they will be removed soon
[08:33] <SteveA> pretend they aren't there
[08:38] <carlos> SteveA: are you going to do it with the other objects or should we schedule a task to do it?
[08:38] <SteveA> I have many other classes done in the code on my machine
[08:39] <carlos> ok
[08:40] <SteveA> if it is blockingn any of your work, then file a bugzilla bug on it
[08:40] <lalo> carlos: 404?  o.O
[08:41] <carlos> lalo: :-?
[08:41] <lalo> ah, nm
[08:42] <lalo> I had an error, then inserted  the debug skin to see what the error was, and got 404
[08:42] <lalo> but it was because I typed "debug" wrong :-P
[08:42] <lalo> actually... what is the incantation to get debugging, again? Wasn't it either ++skin++debug or ++skin++Debug?
[08:43] <carlos> the later
[08:44] <carlos>  /++skin++Debug/rosetta....
[08:48] <lalo> 404 :-/ seems I have no skin named Debug
[08:50] <carlos> lalo: you need to copy a file
[08:50] <carlos> let me check it...
[08:51] <carlos> I think it's canonical.debugskin-configure.zcml
[08:52] <carlos> but I don't remember if it's from launchpad/package-includes to launchpad/lib/canonical/ or from the second to the first
[08:52] <carlos> lalo: check where do you have it and copy/link it to the other directory :-)
[08:52] <lalo> yes :-)
[08:53] <lalo> thanks
[08:54] <carlos> no problem
[09:05] <lalo> I'm getting 1909 now
[09:06] <lalo> what the heck, the ftest is proof enough that the bug is fixed for me
[09:09] <carlos> lalo: it's fixed if you get zope from stuart's branch
[09:10] <lalo> ok, thanks
[09:24] <lalo> confirmed, 1936 fixed
[09:26] <carlos> lalo: perfect!!
[09:50] <lalo> ...and merged
[09:53] <carlos> lalo: if you detect any missing task, just add it there, please
[09:53] <carlos> blocking the 1915 if it should be fixed before the alpha release
[09:55] <lalo> ok. But I haven't, yet.
[09:55] <lalo> (detected missing tasks, I mean)
[09:56] <lalo> I think I'll try to unearth 1935
[10:20] <jblack> I'm not convinced that is even english.
[10:22] <carlos> jblack: X-)
[10:22] <jblack> The first half of it is fine, but then it dives off into lawyereese.
[10:40] <lalo> one down, one last to go :-P


[18:37] <norsetto> yippie: Accepted: knights 0.6-8ubuntu1 (source)
[18:37] <POX_> spe in Debian is orphaned so it will be easy to take over
[18:37] <stani> ScottK: I agree.
[18:37] <stani> POX_: Haha, yes it is my baby!
[18:37] <ScottK> stani: Then talk to the upstream about releasing it ;-)
[18:38] <persia> minghua: Ah.  Then it's my fault.  I need to push ecos, ctsim, and survex a little harder.  Sorry about that.
[18:38] <POX_> hey, doko was previous maintainer
[18:38] <POX_> and he is in the team
[18:38] <stani> POX_: I am only afraid it is quite complicated, as SPE ships with wxGlade, XRCed and Winpdb
[18:38] <POX_> wait, he is only in DPMT, not PAPT
[18:38] <ScottK> POX_ likes complicated ...
[18:39]  * POX_ doesn't like complicated ;-P
[18:39] <minghua> persia: If you can push a bit for Debian's wxwidgets update, it will be very appreciated.
[18:39] <stani> POX_: so upgrading SPE is upgrading all of them
[18:39] <POX_> we have Winpdb in PAPT and it is maintained by bzed who will become DD soon
[18:39] <stani> POX_: who is bzed?
[18:40] <POX_> Bernd Zeimetz
[18:40] <POX_> he really knows what is doing
[18:40] <stani> POX_: I am working together with Nir (author of winpdb) on the new release of winpdb.
[18:40]  * ScottK goes back in hole and tries to get some $WORK done.
[18:40] <persia> minghua: I have a good handle on survex, and some ideas for ecos, but ctsim has completely crushed me.  If you have some time to help, it would be great.
[18:40] <ScottK> See you.
[18:40] <stani> POX_: It will probably out next week
[18:41] <POX_> I will take a look at spe tomorrow, I have some pakcages to review today
[18:41] <stani> POX_: previous version of winpdb might not be compatible with python2.5
[18:41] <POX_> we have 1.2.2-2 now
[18:42] <stani> POX_: Thanks, I am afraid spe package is not so clean.
[18:42] <POX_> and 1.2.5 is in the repo (waiting for official upstream release)
[18:42] <minghua> persia: Sorry, I'm afraid I won't have time.  I'm merely a user. :-P
[18:43] <stani> POX_: really? 1.2.5 is beta! We just fixed an important bug two days ago.
[18:43] <POX_> that's why it's still only in our repo
[18:44] <stani> POX_: Anyway probably winpdb is a good package for me to study as it is quite simple.
[18:44] <stani> POX_: I am more afraid of wxGlade
[18:45] <POX_> I till take a look tomorrow and we'll figure something out, no worryu
[18:46] <stani> POX_: Ok, in the weekend I probably won't be here. Is there another way how I can contact you if I have questions?
[18:46] <POX_><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:46] <stani> POX_: thanks
[18:47] <stani> POX_: I just send you an email so I don't forget it.
[18:48] <POX_> ok
[18:59] <hellboy195>  hey, a stupid question. I reinstalled ubuntu and so I lost my private gpg key. I only saved the public one. Isn't it possible to recover the old one?
[19:00] <minghua> hellboy195: No, unless you can recover your old ~/.gnupg directory.
[19:01] <hellboy195> minghua: looks bad
[19:03] <persia> hellboy195: You could try to crack your key, but unless you get extra lucky, that will likely take a very, very, very, very, very long time
[19:04] <hellboy195> persia: well. I think I make a new one ;) and now I take care :D well how can I disable the old one?
[19:06] <persia> hellboy195: With the revocation certificate you created with your old secret key.
[19:06] <hellboy195> persia: ok thx
[19:08] <hellboy195> persia: how long should the new key live? any advice?
[19:10] <SWAT> perhaps the wrong channel but: where/how can I report wiki abuse?
[19:10] <persia> hellboy195: I set my keys to expire after 1 year, just in case I lose both the secret key and the revocation certificate.  When the time limit approaches, I approve it for another year.
[19:11] <persia> SWAT: First step is just to fix it.  Repeated violations get reported to community council (I believe)
[19:11] <hellboy195> persia: ok thx
[19:11] <SWAT> persia, hmmm, ok, thanks. I don't think there's a procedure for it yet
[19:18] <contrast83> Is there a reason the package for startupmanager depends on Firefox?
[19:21] <Kmos> contrast83: no
[19:22] <zul> contrast83: use the source luke
[19:22] <contrast83> heh... alright.
[19:23] <Kmos> http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html -> the new startupmanager 1.9.8 is at debian new
[19:23] <geser> contrast83: I see now firefox in the Depends line for startupmanager
[19:24] <geser> ah, startupmanager depends on yelp and yelp depends on firefox
[19:26]  * persia suggests this will be reduced to xulrunner for the next release
[19:41] <hellboy195> persia: so. now I have a new key. how can I save it (the private key(?)) so can not loose it again?
[19:42] <zul> print it out somewhere make a backup? that kind of stuff
[19:43] <dredg> --export-secret-keys and make a safe backup?
[19:45] <hellboy195> ah. thx
[19:49] <hellboy195> but there is something wrong. gpg --list-secret-keys  is the same than  gpg --list-public-keys
[19:51] <dredg> nah. there are differences
[19:52] <dredg> subtle, but they're there
[19:52] <dredg> -pub   1024D/CB6E5CF7 2004-09-13
[19:52] <dredg> +sec   1024D/CB6E5CF7 2004-09-13
[19:52] <dredg> -sub   2048g/564B349C 2004-09-13
[19:52] <dredg> +ssb   2048g/564B349C 2004-09-13
[19:53] <hellboy195> ok thx
[20:08] <zul> later folks
[20:20] <AstralJava> Is there no such thing as #ubuntu+1 anymore, or is pidgin broken? Two times I tried to join, two times it ended up on #ubuntu.
[20:22] <Nicke> AstralJava: It forwardes to #ubuntu atm, since Gutsy just was released
[20:22] <Nicke> was just*
[20:23] <AstralJava> Ahh... okay, thanks. Opens after the UDS?
[20:23] <Nicke> (it did the same when Feisty was released).. it will probably open soon again
[20:23] <Nicke> I've no idea really :)
[20:23] <AstralJava> That's alright, thanks anyway. :)
[20:23] <Nicke> np :)
[20:23] <mruiz> ping bluekuja
[20:30] <effie_jayx> is there a good glade IRC channel around
[20:30] <effie_jayx> ?
[20:32]  * ScottK blinks
[20:32] <norsetto> scottK: do you know if the -proposed queue is accessible from LP?
[20:33] <ScottK> Yes.  I think so.  What are you looking for?
[20:33] <norsetto> rutilt-0ubuntu5.1
[20:33] <norsetto> sorry rutilt-0.15-0ubuntu5.1
[20:34] <ScottK> Not Accepted by the archive into -proposed yet, so no. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rutilt
[20:36] <norsetto> ok, what I meant was the queue to get into -proposed, I guess there isn't
[20:37] <ScottK> No.
[20:37] <ScottK> Not that is generally accessible.
[20:38] <norsetto> and for what you know, it is normal that a package sits there for days I guess
[20:38] <rexbron> persia: I have written a manpage for genpo and homoginized the license headers on all of source files (but not the organs) and sent both upstream
[20:41] <ScottK> norsetto: Yes.  Particularly right now while people are travelling to UDS.
[20:42] <norsetto> scottk: thats right
[20:42] <norsetto> scottK: I thought you were planning to be there a couple of days actually?
[20:43] <ScottK> norsetto: If you ask Riddell nicely he might Accept it for you.
[20:43] <ScottK> norsetto: Yes, but it's not far for me.  I'll leave Saturday night.
[20:44] <norsetto> scottK:no, thx, no need for that, I can wait, its not such a popular package
[20:44] <norsetto> ScottK: you going with bddebian? I though he was from somewhere there too
[20:46] <ScottK> He decided not to go AFAIK.
[20:51] <bddebian> Aye, I just got back from a management meeting and I have to be home for Halloween with the girls :-(
[20:56] <StevenHarperUK> In my debian control file I have : XSBC-Original-Maintainer: Steven Harper<EMAIL_ADDRESS>: on REVU some comments say I should set the Maintainer (the main one) to MOTU : is that<EMAIL_ADDRESS>or something else? anyone know?
[21:00] <StevenHarperUK> should it be : Ubuntu MOTU Developers<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:04] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: yes, Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:04] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: ta
[21:06] <StevenHarperUK> Can someone have a look at my debian/rules file according to a review its calling dh_install twice : http://www.squeezedonkey.com/svn/linux/easycrypt/easycrypt/debian/rules
[21:09] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: thats correct, its being called twice
[21:09] <mruiz> hi all. To start with merges do I need to setup a Hardy chroot ?
[21:09] <Mez> hmm, where's brandon? (holtsclaw)
[21:09] <norsetto> mruiz: depends, just a pbuilder with base hardy could do
[21:09] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: what do I change please
[21:10] <norsetto> mruiz: what are you using now, have you been using for gutsy while on feisty?
[21:11] <mruiz> norsetto, I'm using Gutsy
[21:11] <norsetto> mruiz: ok, so you have never used a chroot or pbuilder?
[21:12] <mruiz> I used pbuilder before (I helped with some packages for Gutsy :-) )
[21:13] <norsetto> mruiz: so, I guess it would be better if you stick with that; you have two options, either you dist-upgrade your gutsy pbuilder, or you create a new one for hardy
[21:14] <mruiz> I prefer to create a new one :-)
[21:14] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: deleting the one in install/easycrypt:: should do
[21:14] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: is the other one the pycenral?
[21:15] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: no, its the default binary target, you have the same problem with dh_installman
[21:15] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: so I dont need either of them?
[21:16] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: you are not using python-central btw
[21:16] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: I would delete the dh_installman call and use a manpages file instead
[21:16] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: can you help me get it right?
[21:17] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: just a sec, I'm checking to see if there is some other duplicate
[21:17] <StevenHarperUK> ok
[21:18] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: do you define a mime type in your desktop file?
[21:19] <mruiz> norsetto, but what about packages created with gutsy stuff? Have you ever have problems after hardy pbuilder build?
[21:19] <norsetto> mruiz: sorry?
[21:20] <StevenHarperUK> noretto: I dont think so http://www.squeezedonkey.com/svn/linux/easycrypt/easycrypt/easycrypt.desktop
[21:20] <mruiz> norsetto, I'll change packages using gutsy stuff, but I'll build them with hardy stuff.
[21:20] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: right, in principle you could do away with the dh_desktop call, I think its called twice too
[21:21] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: no, it isn't, so, you can leave it there if you want
[21:23] <mruiz> norsetto, anyway... I'll give it a go :-)
[21:23] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: for the man page its very simple, just add a manpages file with just easycrypt.1 in it; this will be installed automatically
[21:24] <norsetto> mruiz: as long as you don't build, you can do what you want with the source in gutsy
[21:25] <norsetto> mruiz: some utilities packages might be updated in hardy, so you may want to backport them (for instance, I had to do it with desktop-file-validate)
[21:26] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: I have a http://www.squeezedonkey.com/svn/linux/easycrypt/easycrypt/debian/easycrypt.1 already
[21:27] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: thats right, what I mean is that in the manpages file you just have the text "easycrypt.1"
[21:30] <StevenHarperUK> ah ta
[21:30] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: I dont have a manpages file
[21:30] <StevenHarperUK> is it just debian/manpages
[21:31] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: actually, if it is in debian, it should be "debian/easycrypt.1"
[21:31] <StevenHarperUK> it is there
[21:32] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: yes, so from your source tree root, do echo "debian/easycrypt.1" > debian/manpages and that should be it
[21:34] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto so no dh_install or dh_installman needed anymore
[21:35] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: no, they are automatically called by cdbs, and use the install and manpages files as input
[21:35] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: what does that mean
[21:35] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: you may want to check man dh_install and man dh_installman for the nitty gritty
[21:37] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: the debian/manpages and debian/install files (or, if your package has foo1 and foo2 binary packages, your foo1.manpages, foo2.manpages etc.) are used by dh_install and dh_installman as input files
[21:38] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: so, for instance in the install one, you specify which file(s) must go where, etc.
[21:38] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: have you got patches in your package?
[21:39] <StevenHarperUK> no patches it all my code Im upstream
[21:39] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: then you don't need this: include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/simple-patchsys.mk
[21:40] <StevenHarperUK> thanks
[21:40] <norsetto> this: export DH_VERBOSE=1 is fine now since you want to know whats going on, but you may omit or comment once ready
[21:40] <StevenHarperUK> ok
[21:40] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: do you use distutils?
[21:41] <mruiz> norsetto, I'll create a Hardy chroot then :-)
[21:41] <norsetto> mruiz: as you wish, whatever is best for you ;-)
[21:41] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: refresh that webpage, I have updated it
[21:41] <StevenHarperUK> please
[21:44] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: so, do you use distutils?
[21:45]  * mruiz creating hardy chroot :-)
[21:46] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: I copied the rules, I honestly dont know exactly how it works
[21:46] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto I use debuild to build
[21:49] <LaserJock> Adri2000: ping
[21:49] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: right, I've never done a package without distutils before, but I think you don't need this in this case: export DEB_PYTHON_SYSTEM=pycentral
[21:49] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: might be wrong though, so its better to check it
[21:50] <StevenHarperUK> I have followed the new python packagin guide
[21:50] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: do you change your modules from one python version to another, or they are the same?
[21:50] <LaserJock> StevenHarperUK: where's that?
[21:50] <geser> StevenHarperUK: distutils helps upstreams to provide an install method for the users
[21:50] <norsetto> geser: he is upstream .....
[21:51] <StevenHarperUK> there the same version
[21:51] <geser> norsetto: I know
[21:51] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: than you don't need this: export DH_PYCENTRAL=nomove
[21:52] <norsetto> geser: ok, so just wanted him to use it ... hear hear StevenHarperUK
[21:53] <StevenHarperUK> LaserJock: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
[21:53] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: the dh_pycentral call should be in binary-install
[21:54] <LaserJock> StevenHarperUK: ah, right
[21:54] <LaserJock> I was wondering if there was a new new one ;-)
[21:54] <Adri2000> LaserJock: pong
[21:54] <norsetto> LaserJock: its the old new one ;-)
[21:54] <LaserJock> Adri2000: I'm confused about the pbuilder-dist bug
[21:54] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: can you refresh that page again??
[21:54] <LaserJock> Adri2000: by don't you guys just set --mirror and --other-mirror?
[21:55] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: export DH_PYCENTRAL=nomove is still there
[21:56] <Adri2000> LaserJock: yes currently pbuilder-dist calls pbuilder with --mirror $archive and --othermirror $archive $components. that works if $components is set to main only in pbuilderrc.
[21:57] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: the guide siad I have to have it
[21:57] <StevenHarperUK> Sure I can remove it
[21:57] <LaserJock> Adri2000: right, what's the problem with that?
[21:58] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: if you have modules which can't be shared between python version thats correct, but you said you don't
[21:59] <StevenHarperUK> ok your right
[21:59] <StevenHarperUK> refresh the page if you like
[21:59] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: any reason to install in /usr/share/apps/easycrypt/?
[22:00] <Adri2000> LaserJock: there is a warning saying "duplicate repository" (because we put the same repository in mirror and othermirror), and it doesn't work anymore if $COMPONENTS is not "main"
[22:00] <StevenHarperUK> Yes that where the Python dbeain policy ays you put all Architecture files
[22:00] <LaserJock> Adri2000: there shouldn't be a duplicate and why would you have something other than "main"
[22:01] <LaserJock> it should work perfectly fine if you haven't messed around with /etc/pbuilderrc
[22:01] <Adri2000> no
[22:01] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto do you want me to find the webpage for that info?
[22:02] <Adri2000> LaserJock: well, the bug was reported by ScottK: pbuilder-dist doesn't work with debian because it tries ubuntu components. actually it tries the components in pbuilderrc, which by default are main restricted (and maybe universe and multiverse). I gave a workaround: set $COMPONENTS to main, but that's only a workaround and not a real fix to the bug
[22:03] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: yes please, I would like to know, because I thought /usr/lib was more appropriate
[22:03] <StevenHarperUK> /usr/lib is for architecture dependant files
[22:03] <Adri2000> LaserJock: also, using --mirror and --othermirror is clearly a workaround the fact that until now it was not possible to specifix the components via the command line. now we should just use --mirror and --components
[22:03] <LaserJock> Adri2000: it doesn't work for Debian pbuilders or on Debian systems
[22:04] <StevenHarperUK> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ch-programs.html#s-current_version_progs
[22:04] <Adri2000> s/specifix/specify/
[22:04] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: well, all python packages I have seen had them in /usr/lib, but I can very well be wrong
[22:04] <StevenHarperUK> These modules should be installed in /usr/share/module, or /usr/lib/module if the modules are architecture-dependent
[22:04] <Adri2000> LaserJock: why?
[22:04] <LaserJock> Adri2000: that was a question
[22:04] <LaserJock> I'm using my scripts just fine on both Debian machines and for Debian pbuilders
[22:05] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: after doing this im gunna be almost be ready to review other peeps packages
[22:05] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: that would be good
[22:05] <Adri2000> LaserJock: bigon's patch makes it work with both debian and ubuntu...
[22:06] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: there isn't much info on Python packaging
[22:06] <LaserJock> Adri2000: I'm just saying, it seems straightforward to make it work both for Debian and on Debian
[22:06] <LaserJock> Adri2000: so I don't get why you guys are having such a problem
[22:06] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: yes, and on top of that dh_pycentral is telling me /usr/lib/package and /usr/share/package are standard locations
[22:07] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: and the python policy says /usr/lib/pythonX.Y
[22:07] <bddebian> Later gang
[22:07] <Adri2000> LaserJock: take a clean install of gutsy, install pbuilder and u-dev-tools, pbuilder-dist sid create will fail
[22:07] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: Its very confusing finding documentation that agree's I have had a very frustrating time getting this far, but it looks like im ther now
[22:08] <LaserJock> Adri2000: I know, but I don't know why it's been messed up
[22:08] <LaserJock> Adri2000: you just set --mirror
[22:08] <Adri2000> with --mirror you can't tell which components you want. that why until now we are using --othermirror
[22:09] <LaserJock> so?
[22:09] <Adri2000> because with --othermirror you can specify the components
[22:09] <Adri2000> now that we have pbuilder --components, let's use it
[22:09] <LaserJock> you don't need to specificy the components, it's always Main
[22:09] <LaserJock> well, if it's broken then it's no use ;-)
[22:10] <Adri2000> it's main restricted (universe multiverse) or main (contrib non-free)
[22:10] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: well, if you don't specify the path, since you use pycentral I think they will be installed in /usr/share/pycentral, so that should be ok
[22:11] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: in that case you don't need to specify the path to dh_pycentral
[22:12] <Adri2000> LaserJock: do you agree that using --mirror and --othermirror is not logical? we use only one repo (the official one). bigon's patch is only to make pbuilder-dist work in anycase, and to remove that --othermirror workaround. there is really no problem with that patch, except that it won't be easily backportable, but that's not a good reason imo
[22:14] <imbrandon> wow , the MOTU Q&A is quiet .......
[22:14] <imbrandon> .... hears birds chirp .....
[22:16] <ajmitch> there's a Q&A session?
[22:16] <LaserJock> Adri2000: well, I think --mirror and --other-mirror is fine
[22:17] <LaserJock> you're just adding more deb lines, like in sources.list
[22:17] <LaserJock> I can do one line for each component if I want
[22:17] <LaserJock> but I need to at least have main
[22:18] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: yes, thats confirmed by the policy "The location of the private modules is determined automatically by pycentral."
[22:18] <Adri2000> LaserJock: it adds two *identical* lines in sources.list, that's not very clean, and you get warnings when you update the chroot
[22:18] <LaserJock> why are they identical??
[22:19] <imbrandon> ajmitch, yes as part of OpenWeek, i'm running it with LaserJock and geser but is very very dead
[22:19] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: but then how do I call it with a /usr/bin/easycrypt ???
[22:19] <LaserJock> with --mirror you're saying "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hardy main"
[22:19] <Adri2000> no
[22:20] <Adri2000> it's --mirror http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu
[22:20] <LaserJock> but that's the effect
[22:20] <Adri2000> and for the components it uses $COMPOENTS from pbuilderrc
[22:20] <Adri2000> +P
[22:20] <LaserJock> so don't screw around with $COMPONENTS
[22:21] <Adri2000> so we don't support changing conf files?
[22:22] <Adri2000> imagine someone uses pbuilder-dist for some things but also uses directly pbuilder, he will want to config his pbuilderrc as he wants for that
[22:22] <Adri2000> pbuilder-dist should still work correctly
[22:22] <LaserJock> I don't think there's an easy way to do that is my point
[22:22] <LaserJock> the whole point of the script was so that you *never* have to touch pbuilderrc
[22:23] <Adri2000> it's not necessary, but you should still be able to
[22:23] <LaserJock> well, these scripts are a hack in the first palce
[22:23] <LaserJock> *place
[22:23] <LaserJock> you can do everything without them too
[22:24] <Adri2000> sure, but we include it in the archive, so it should work at least
[22:24] <Adri2000> and the easy way to do that is to use pbuilder --components
[22:24] <bigon> +1
[22:24] <Adri2000> I wrote the pbuilder patch which adds this option, only to fix that pbuilder-dist bug
[22:25] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: whats that, your wrapper script?
[22:25] <LaserJock> well, tbh I think you're creating much more work than needs to be done
[22:25] <StevenHarperUK> Yup
[22:25] <LaserJock> but I tend to just keep it simple
[22:26] <StevenHarperUK> Yeh does anyone know if the PPA builder is very behind..... did that openoffice build really create a huge backlog?
[22:26] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: well, let me check some packages, but I think its either /usr/share/pycentral or /usr/share/easycrypt
[22:27] <LaserJock> StevenHarperUK: openoffice takes 12+hrs to build I think
[22:27] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: I would prefer if I passed it the path, the guide does say your allowed to
[22:27] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: yes, its should be /usr/share/easycrypt
[22:27] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: let pycentral handle it for you
[22:27] <StevenHarperUK> That sound like a recipe for diaster
[22:28] <StevenHarperUK> **disaster
[22:28] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: quote the contrary, it may well save you some trouble later on
[22:28] <StevenHarperUK> But if I let it choose the final location, then my wrapper script will break
[22:28] <StevenHarperUK> if it ever changes
[22:30] <LaserJock> Adri2000: can you verify that --mirror + --other-mirror will work?
[22:30] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: no, I wouldn't be worried by that, it may well be the contrary, that /usr/share/apps its deprecated
[22:31] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: lets have a look at control now
[22:31] <LaserJock> the essential problem that I see with pbuilder-dist is that it is a giant workaround
[22:32] <StevenHarperUK> I would prefer to manually place it there thou
[22:32] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: even manually /usr/share/easycrypt its still the best place, so, what are you gaining?
[22:33] <StevenHarperUK> im gaining  that it will ALWAYS be there and my wrapper and desktop and menuitems will work
[22:34] <StevenHarperUK> If pycenral moves it to a new location then it all breaks
[22:34] <Adri2000> LaserJock: --mirror + --other-mirror will work only if $COMPONENTS==main, and will work with warnings
[22:35] <LaserJock> ok, so
[22:35] <LaserJock> now what happens when you use $COMPONENTS+--mirror?
[22:35] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: well, you have to trust the tools we make available, if you don't, than there isn't much we can do for you
[22:36] <Adri2000> LaserJock: --mirror $ARCHIVE --components $COMPONENTS ? everything works perfectly
[22:36] <Adri2000> that's what we want to do
[22:36] <StevenHarperUK> hehe ok ill do it : just cause it makes me feel sad that you think I dont trust you
[22:36] <LaserJock> Adri2000: ok, so what's the bug?
[22:37] <Adri2000> LaserJock: ScottK doesn't want it because --components is only available in the latest pbuilder, so it will make u-dev-tools not easily backportable
[22:38] <LaserJock> well
[22:38] <LaserJock> why don't we have a dep on the right version of pbuilder for the current packages
[22:39] <LaserJock> and then just backport scripts to the older packages
[22:39] <Adri2000> I think u-dev-tools only recommends or suggests pbuilder
[22:40] <LaserJock> well, whatever
[22:40] <LaserJock> A note would work
[22:40] <LaserJock> I just don't think it's worth a ton of effort
[22:40] <LaserJock> you could have pbuilder-dist give an error message perhaps
[22:40] <LaserJock> or check what version of pbuilder and change behavior accordingly
[22:41] <Adri2000> or do not backport u-dev-tools... or backport it with pbuilder...
[22:42] <LaserJock> yep
[22:42] <LaserJock> personally I thought --mirror --other-mirror was just fine
[23:05] <norsetto> g'night all
[23:14] <LaserJock> heh, I just get a weird feeling when people start automating packaging
[23:14] <LaserJock> I guess I'm just not geeky enough ;-)
[23:16] <crimsun_> err, you've been "automating packaging" for quite some time...
[23:16] <LaserJock> yes and no
[23:17] <LaserJock> of course I've been using automation, debuild, debhelper, etc.
[23:18] <LaserJock> but on the other hand I don't script changelogs, rules, or bug reports
[23:18] <crimsun_> a fairly narrow view IMNSHO
[23:18] <crimsun_> PPA, Packaging Guide, etc., are all forms of "automating packaging"
[23:19] <ajmitch> you don't?
[23:20] <LaserJock> all right fine
[23:20] <LaserJock> ;-)
[23:21]  * ajmitch has changelog manglers & all
[23:21] <LaserJock> it just seems like there should be some threshold of "this needs real eyeballs"
[23:21] <ajmitch> certainly
[23:21] <LaserJock> no, I've never touched changelog, rules, or bug reports with a script
[23:21] <ajmitch> requestsync? :)
[23:21] <LaserJock> never used it
[23:22] <ajmitch> oh my
[23:22] <LaserJock> never used reportbug automatically either
[23:22] <crimsun_> pfft, that's for wussies.  I'd much rather plop in non-eyeballed apt-get.org sources anyhow!
[23:22] <ajmitch> ^5 crimsun_
[23:22] <LaserJock> I *have* done 1 control.in though
[23:23] <LaserJock> that's the only thing I've scripted I think
[23:23] <LaserJock> I've always created dpatch patches manually :/
[23:24] <LaserJock> at some point I gotta figure I'm just being inefficient
[23:24] <LaserJock> which is why I don't upload much
[23:25] <LaserJock> I would guess I average something like 30min-1hr per upload
[23:26]  * ajmitch averages 2-3 months per upload
[23:26] <LaserJock> hehe
[23:26] <LaserJock> well actually working on them
[23:26] <LaserJock> I'm guessing you have a lot of in-between time ;-)
[23:26] <ajmitch> a bit, yes
[23:35] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: You've never even used dch?
[23:38] <LaserJock> ahhhh
[23:39] <LaserJock> you got me there
[23:39] <LaserJock> although I don't use it a ton
[23:41] <ajmitch> you never use cdbs? :)
[23:41] <ajmitch> or debhelper, for that matter
[23:42] <LaserJock> well, I say that I used automated tools
[23:43] <LaserJock> *said
[23:45] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Do you know of any changes to the LP release process? I've had some of my bugs milestoned to 1.1.10 yesterday, but they're only High, so that seems useless...
[23:45] <LaserJock> hmm
[23:46] <LaserJock> newly milestoned?
[23:46] <Fujitsu> Yeah, and deliberately (ie. originally 1.1.11 soon after I filed them, but somebody came along and changed to 1.1.10)
[23:46] <LaserJock> I did see a few that were High and I wondered why they weren't Critical as it sounded like they were going to be cherry picked
[23:47] <Fujitsu> Yeah.
[23:47] <Fujitsu> I wonder if they've now worked a point-release sort of thing into their schedule.
[23:47] <Fujitsu> That would make sense, considering how much they break.
[23:47] <LaserJock> yeah
[23:47] <LaserJock> I'll have to ask kiko about it
[23:48] <Fujitsu> Even brand new features not working. It's incredible.
[23:48] <LaserJock> maybe they need a 6-month release schedule ;-)
[23:50] <Fujitsu> I guess it would help if they had testing, but that relies on no DB schema changes, so edge can update.
[23:59] <jdong> Anyone interested in sponsoring an Azureus upload into Hardy for me?