[01:49] <frewsxcv> ailo: is the new site still using drupal?
[07:36] <ailo> frewsxcv: Nope. Wordpress
[13:41] <len-dt> ailo, For the most part, I would put the web page up now. I would like to see a news spot about 12.04 though. The latest one is for 11.10 and is not very nice. 12.04 is much better.
[13:47] <len-dt> scott-work, I have a mode switcher in place on my machine. I just have to do a configure program. Right now the mode switch is a part of my workflow project, but it would be nice to have a tray-able applet.
[13:48] <len-dt> scott-work, how many modes do you see us using? Right now I have desktop and audio, but there could be desktop, audio, video, graphics.
[13:50] <len-dt> although I would think desktop and graphics might be the same... but I don't make enough use of those programs to know.
[13:53] <len-dt> scott-work, our lead singer/guitarist does both music and graphics, but on the other hand tweaking a computer or even changing preset modes is not something he does. (so he has a Mac)
[13:58]  * len-dt is off to work
[15:02] <scott-work> ronoc: do you have a few moments for a small discussion?  i would learn and understand your experiences and perspective
[15:02] <ronoc> hi scott-work
[15:02] <ronoc> can we do this in a bit
[15:02] <ronoc> just about to go into a meeting
[15:02] <ronoc> would love to chat about stuff :)
[15:03] <scott-work> capital!
[15:13] <scott-work> TheMuso: i am in discussion with leann about the lowlatency kernel. tim has contacted her about moving it into their work since they have collapsed several other kernels, which was the condition to which he would accept it. she is asking that we justify our request based on downloads, which is not unreasonable.
[15:14] <scott-work> TheMuso: her concern being that their work and responsibility is warranted. i am happy to comply and am in the process of getting this information, although i would be unable to properly acquire reasonable number for torrents i fear
[15:21] <ailo> len-dt: Yeah, I haven't looked at the news thing yet. We just need to add a post for that. Might as well remove the old ones too
[15:22] <ailo> I will put heart and soul into adding more stuff to the feature tour on the web site these coming days
[15:22] <ailo> But not today. Today is all about cyckling
[15:22] <ailo> cycling*
[15:23] <ailo> scott-work: What does that mean? If -lowlatency is not downloaded often enough, they won't want to maintain it?
[15:34] <scott-work> ailo: essentially, but there is a history to the request
[15:36] <scott-work> ailo: in particular the i386 non-pae generic kernel is used as an example of a kernel with similar maintenance requirements but limited (and dwindling) usage that the kernel team dropped
[16:03] <ronoc> scott-work, so
[16:03] <ronoc> i gotta go in 10 mins
[16:05] <ronoc> scott-work, should we schedule a chat tomorrow afternoon
[16:05] <ronoc> how about 5pm GTM +1
[16:05] <ronoc> scott-work, are you EST ?
[16:12] <scott-work> ronoc: sorry was busy with work, i'm CST
[16:12] <scott-work> ronoc: i'll have to see what 5pm GTM +1 is for me before i can answer :P
[16:12] <ronoc> probably about 11am
[16:12] <ronoc> scott-work, ^
[16:13] <ronoc> or maybe later
[16:15] <scott-work> ronoc: tomorrow afternoon at 5pm GTM +1 is good for me (which currently 24 hours hence approximately)
[16:15] <scott-work> you were correct that would be 11:00am my time
[16:20] <ronoc> scott-work, oka cool
[16:20] <ronoc> okay cool
[16:20] <scott-work> hehe. by the way, i look forward to our discussion :)
[16:21] <ronoc> scott-work, defo, okay gotta run laters
[16:21] <scott-work> oh, i added this my google calendar and realized that the release meeting...
[16:22] <scott-work> ah crap, he left :P
[16:23] <scott-work> ronoc, if you read the logs: i'll be just getting out of the release meeting, i don't _think_ this will impact my availability, i hope the release meeting will actually go shorter than previously so we should be okay
[18:06] <frewsxcv> buffer cplug
[18:31] <scott-work> astraljava: it looked like you might be making changes to the seeds based on the xfce4-utils bug that mrprouit filed?  or at least assigned yourself?
[18:31] <scott-work> astraljava: if you don't plan on it or haven't yet i would like to do so this weekend
[18:35] <astraljava> scott-work: Sure, if you want, I haven't started yet.
[18:35] <astraljava> I'll de-assign myself.
[18:38] <astraljava> Done.
[19:01] <micahg> I wasn't sure if the other changes needed to be done at the same time (or I would've updated the seeds last week)
[21:10] <len-dt> scott-work, looking at the blueprint, I am not going to be much good at telling if audio tweaks will "degrade" non-audio performance... aside from maybe the browser ;-)
[21:11] <len-dt> scott-work, it may be easier to get the config GUI set up so other people can test what they use their system for.


[12:40] <Banana> hey folks. First of all kudos for the LTSP5 packages.
[12:41] <RichEd> Banana: kudos go to ogra & sbalneave mainly :)
[12:42] <Banana> I have managed to get everything working on top of Xen amd64 which was kind of a nightmare
[12:42] <Banana> i have a small issue
[12:43] <Banana> i can't seem to find it in the bugzilla so i figured i asked here.
[12:43] <Banana> when i shutdown a client, the / gets umounted too soon
[12:43] <Banana> and the halt script cannot be executed.
[12:44] <Banana> there are I/O errors on nbd-client which complains about a closed socket
[12:44] <Banana> hence the machine hangs just before calling halt
[12:45] <Banana> (non xen here, on a real diskless client).
[12:48] <Banana> uhhh i thikn i found the cause
[12:49] <Banana> the  S60umountroot in runlevel 0 is trying to remount / readonly.
[12:49] <Banana> i'll try to deactivate it.
[01:29] <ogra> Banana, thats feisty ?
[01:30] <Banana> no gutsy
[01:30] <Banana> i found the culprit
[01:30] <Banana> the script sendsigs which sends killall -15/-9 to everyone
[01:30] <Banana> it kills nbd-client early in the shutdown process
[01:31] <Banana> there is a file /var/run/sendsigs.omit
[01:31] <Banana> i'm trying to add pidof nbd-client in it to see
[01:31] <ogra> well, bug 126444 was supposed to be fixed
[01:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 126444 in ltsp "[gutsy-tribe2]  <ctrl><alt><del> on tty0 fails to shut down ltsp thin clients" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/126444
[01:32] <Banana> i'll go check the bugreport; thanks for the pointer.
[01:33] <ogra> /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/rc6.d/ and /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/rc0.d/ should only have the shutdown/reboot scripts
[01:33] <ogra> at least for all ltsp-build-client runs after version 5.0.25
[01:35] <Banana> hooo
[01:35] <ogra> (note that wont be the case if you built your client chroot with an older version)
[01:35] <Banana> that might be why.
[01:35] <Banana> i built the image early in gutsy.
[01:35] <ogra> yeah
[01:35] <Banana> and then chroot in it and dist upgraded
[01:36] <ogra> you should rebuild with the recent version :)
[01:36] <ogra> there are somw steps ltsp-biild-client performs that we cant do on upgrades
[01:36] <Banana> yes its understandable.
[01:37] <Banana> thanks for the hint.
[01:39] <ogra> also note, if you dist upgrade the chroot, you need to run ltsp-update-image
[01:39] <ogra> (the image is whats served now, the chroot is only for maintenance)
[01:41] <Banana> yes i saw
[01:41] <Banana> the speed up is amazing
[01:41] <Banana> bravo :)
[01:41] <Banana> (for the boot process)
[01:41] <ogra> :)
[01:42] <ogra> it has its drawbacks
[01:42] <ogra> i.e. you have to rebuild the image after changes
[01:42] <ogra> :)
[01:42] <Banana> yes but it seems to make better use of the bandwidth than nfsroot
[01:43] <ogra> yeah
[01:43] <ogra> its a lot faster and smaller
[01:43] <Banana> which matters to me as I have ~50 - 75 diskless pc with raging student working on it at all time.
[01:43] <ogra> it puts some extra load on the client cpu for unsquashing though... but thats only affecting the boot
[01:43] <Banana> and only 100mb connection
[01:44] <ogra> oh, yeah there it surely matters
[01:44] <Banana> i also tested with a xen domU thin client (living on the same machine as the ltsp server)
[01:45] <Banana> works allmost like a charm.
[01:45] <Banana> (mainly xen problems)
[01:45] <ogra> cool
[03:03] <sbalneav> Morning all
[03:03] <sbalneav> ogra: Hey, how's it going?
[03:04] <sbalneav> I did some testing on the weekend.  Localdevs seems to be working great!  Thanks for the upload.
[03:06] <ogra> pulling my hair out over ltsp-update-image
[03:07] <ogra> that inetd/port code is such a bad mess
[03:08] <sbalneav> yeah, I improved it a little, but it's kind of a sticky problem.
[03:08] <sbalneav> What can I help with?
[03:08] <ogra> we have two places that need to be identical all the time (PXE and inetd)
[03:09] <ogra> beyond that there are x special cases that need to be taken into account
[03:09] <sbalneav> Oh, by the way, couple of minor bugs squashed on the weekend, most important one related to X_RAMPERC.  ulimit -v isn't there under dash's shell, so changed it to ulimit -m
[03:09] <ogra> we also need to make sure that we always exit 0 ... unless there is no image
[03:10] <ogra> ah, thats good
[03:10] <sbalneav> Hey, something else I was wondering.
[03:10] <ogra> yeah, i found that mkfifo isnt in the d-i environment :/
[03:10] <ogra> have to use mknod ... grrr
[03:12] <sbalneav> I did some testing, and on all the boxes I tested, an X_RAMPERC=80 makes sure nothing bad happens, kills firefox on insane web pages, etc.  I was wondering, should we think about setting a default X_RAMPERC in ltsp_config?  Might help to elimintate some of those "my workstation locks up for no apparent reason" type bug reports?
[03:12] <ogra> could go into the initramfs code that checks for low ram
[03:13] <sbalneav> heh ram < 512m then X_RAMPERC=80?
[03:13] <ogra> lol
[03:13] <sbalneav> I tested that insane website that Jim K posted
[03:14] <sbalneav> it allocates, like 512 megs of pixmaps!
[03:14] <ogra> well, i was planning to release with an empty lts.conf so it should be set elsewhere
[03:14] <ogra> (read we'll need an override var for that )
[03:14] <ogra> NO_RAM_LIMIT
[03:14] <ogra> or so
[03:15] <ogra> or X_RAMPERC=0 disables it
[03:15] <sbalneav> Well, or X_RAMPERC = 100?
[03:15] <sbalneav> RAMPERC's such a bad name.
[03:15] <sbalneav> What else can we call it?
[03:15] <ogra> so people not wanting it can switch it off
[03:15] <sbalneav> sure = 0
[03:15] <ogra> MAX_USED_RAM ?
[03:15] <ogra> MAX_RAM ?
[03:16] <ogra> RAMLIMIT
[03:16] <sbalneav> X_MAX_RAM?
[03:16] <sbalneav> X_RAMLIMIT
[03:16] <ogra> well, you set all ram
[03:16] <sbalneav> I like that
[03:16] <ogra> not only X's
[03:16] <sbalneav> No, just X's
[03:16] <sbalneav> it's done in the ldm
[03:16] <sbalneav> so it won't affect other things.
[03:17] <ogra> doesnt ulimit set kernel params ?
[03:17] <sbalneav> Not as far as I know.  Just that process and all subprocesses
[03:18] <sbalneav> so we set it in the ldm screen script, it should set for that process, and children.
[03:18] <ogra> ah, ok
[03:18] <ogra> well, just because we're root
[03:22] <ogra> sbalneav, cant we just read /proc/meminfo and automtically limit to the ramsize ?
[03:22] <ogra> or better ramsize + swapsize
[03:22] <ogra> seems more elegant somehow
[03:23] <ogra> and have a switch tghat only en or disables that fucntion
[03:29] <sbalneav> That's what we do
[03:29] <sbalneav> The question is just WHERE you set the limit
[03:30] <sbalneav> if you set it too close to the max, some things don't like it.  If you set it too low, you're not making full use of the ws's resrources.
[03:31] <sbalneav> we add up free ram and free swap.  And though some (long) testing this weekend, I found 80 makes the best sense.
[03:31] <ogra> leave a 10% buffer ?
[03:31] <ogra> 80 doesnt make sense on a client with 256M and 512M nbd swap in a tmpfs :)
[03:32] <ogra> i'd go with a certain percentage below max
[03:33] <ogra> not friday anymore :)
[03:33] <sbalneav> Well, what I was coming across was that, if I set it much above 85, mozilla would crash, and the desktop would return, but the mouse and keyboard would be frozen.  If, on the server, I pkilled the user, the desktop would recyle, but the mouse and keyboard would still be latched. At 80, I found everything worked as expected.
[03:34] <sbalneav> ok, maybe we can do some math, and set some sensible values.  I'll put some thought into it today.  Should we put the code in ltsp_config?  That'd be the simplest.
[03:34] <ogra> at with what physical ram size ?
[03:34] <ogra> s/at/at 80/
[03:34] <sbalneav> yeah, physical ram size
[03:34] <sbalneav> i.e. if you've got 512 ram, probably 95 is fine
[03:35] <ogra> only ?
[03:35] <ogra> why not more ?
[03:35] <sbalneav> 98
[03:35] <sbalneav> I'd have to play around with some values.
[03:35] <ogra> how much phys ram did you have on the machine you tested 80 on ?
[03:35] <sbalneav> 256
[03:35] <ogra> urgh
[03:35] <sbalneav> 32 meg swap
[03:35] <ogra> thats a huge waste
[03:36] <ogra> we probably need 20M for everything !X
[03:36] <ogra> so you would have 150M idling there
[03:37] <sbalneav> 256 + 32 * .8 = 230 meg
[03:37] <ogra> 80 is percentage ?
[03:37] <sbalneav> yeah
[03:37] <sbalneav> yeah, percentage
[03:37] <sbalneav> ramperc :)
[03:37] <sbalneav> ram percentage :)
[03:38] <ogra> sorry, better ignore me today
[03:38] <sbalneav> lol, NP
[03:38] <ogra> :)
[03:38] <ogra> ok, then 80 is perfect indeed :=
[03:38] <ogra> :)
[03:39] <sbalneav> Anyway, merge from me now, so we get the default behavior of it not being set at all, and then I'll fool around and try to set a sane value based on ram in the client, swap size, etc.
[03:39] <ogra> did you make a change the last hour ?
[03:39] <sbalneav> no
[03:39] <ogra> i just merged this mornoing
[03:39] <ogra> *morning
[03:39] <sbalneav> Effecient as always :)
[03:39] <sbalneav> They're not paying you enough :)
[03:40] <ogra> i just want -update-image half way sane before i package it
[03:40] <ogra> else the package would be up already
[03:40] <sbalneav> ok, I'll quit bending your ear, and let you get to it :)
[04:27] <bddebian> Heya
[08:19] <LaserJock> hi ogra
[08:19] <ogra> hey
[08:20] <LaserJock> ogra: how was your weekend?
[08:20] <ogra> busy
[08:21] <LaserJock> manage to get that upload done?
[08:53] <bdoin> ogra: latest GCompris release is 40MB smaller, I am sure you will appreciate ;)
[08:53] <LaserJock> wow
[08:53] <LaserJock> how'd you do that?
[08:53] <ogra> \o/
[08:54] <bdoin> we re-encoded all voices in a lower bitrate
[08:54] <LaserJock> ahhh
[08:54] <LaserJock> well done
[08:54] <ogra> yay
[08:56] <bdoin> take care, in the latest release there are several changes that impacts packaging
[08:57] <LaserJock> oh man, so 40MB comes at a price? :-)
[08:58] <bdoin> you can see it this way but it's unrellated
[08:58] <ogra> well, we went fine with the debian packages the recent time ...
[08:59] <bdoin> we integrated some libraries in order to ease packaging and switched to gstreamer instead of GTK
[08:59] <ogra> gstreamer ++
[08:59] <ogra> very good
[09:00] <bdoin> oops sorry, gstreamer instead of SDL_Mixer
[09:00] <ogra> indeed :)
[09:01] <bdoin> do you have cooperations with the olpc team on some subject ?
[09:02] <ogra> only very loosely
[09:03] <sbalneav> gstreamer = ++++good.
[09:03] <sbalneav> \o/ for bdoin
[09:03] <bdoin> thanks
[09:04] <bdoin> at some point we could imagine that the sugar user interface is also a good choice for regular children oriented desktop
[09:04] <sbalneav> ogra: too late for a UVFe for something that big, eh?
[09:05] <ogra> yeah
[09:05] <ogra> its on the addon CD anyway
[09:05] <ogra> all we'd gain would be some MB in the live squashfs
[09:05] <sbalneav> bdoin: gstreamer's good, as it plugs in very nicely with the remote sound stuff on ltsp.
[09:05] <bdoin> what's a UVFe ?
[09:05] <ogra> !uvf
[09:05] <ubotu> uvf is Upstream Version Freeze.  For an exception, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-9523bc4076ff011324d67cddc97969ec609618d6
[09:05] <sbalneav> Upstream Version Freeze exception.
[09:06] <ogra> sbalneav, lazier is faster :P
[09:06] <sbalneav> heh, there a way to see what's ubotu's list of factoids is?
[09:06] <sbalneav> !factoids
[09:06] <ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
[09:06] <ogra> "all-knowing infobot"
[09:06] <ogra> tsk
[09:07] <ogra> ubotu, whats the color of my socks ?
[09:07] <ogra> bah
[09:07] <LaserJock> supposedly I'm a factoid editor
[09:07] <sbalneav> Ubotu needs a "seen " function.
[09:07] <LaserJock> I could whip up a nice response
[09:07] <ogra> and a socks function
[09:08] <LaserJock> "Edubuntu colors, of course" would be a good one
[09:08] <ogra> a force feedback socks function that also pulls them :)
[09:08] <LaserJock> haha
[09:08] <sbalneav> ogra: if they're white, they're clean, if they're green, time to change 'em :)
[09:08] <ogra> lol
[09:08] <LaserJock> lol, such wisdom
[09:19] <stgraber> :)
[09:20] <stgraber> ogra: saw my comment about italc ? (posted on Saturday)
[09:20] <ogra> that you got it running ?
[09:21] <stgraber> yep
[09:21] <stgraber> except things like shutdown/reboot of course
[09:21] <ogra> yeah
[09:21] <stgraber> and I still have some problems with the demo mode
[09:21] <ogra> but that sounds good
[09:21] <ogra> we'll need to get it building without libssl dependency though
[09:22] <stgraber> yes, you basically run one ica (the user daemon) for each user, then make it listen on a different port (default+client number in my case)
[09:22] <stgraber> it should also be easy to do a launcher for the teacher tool so it grabs the list of connected clients and generate the XML
[10:43] <clarkkent93> looking for help....installed edubuntu but missing education programs
[10:47] <clarkkent93> can anybody help?
[10:56] <monteslu> clarkkent93, "gksudo synaptic"
[10:57] <monteslu> just install whatever you want from there
[10:57] <clarkkent93> hmmm...i've tried to go to add/remove programs and it shows the stuff but says that it can't install due to either computer type or something
[10:57] <clarkkent93> should what you wrote help?
[11:01] <monteslu> not sure, but give it a shot, and make sure to have it update availabe packages
[11:06] <clarkkent93> ok..i'll wait until i get a lan cable this afternoon...didn't realize that i lost it when i moved.
[11:07] <clarkkent93> what should i be looking for in that gksudo synaptic?
[11:10] <clarkkent93> i'm completely new to linux and edubuntu...i imagine you got that from my questions
[11:13] <monteslu> clarkkent93, I'm actually on fedora right now, but I believe you can browse the different sections for software you want to install, and there are some educational categories
[11:13] <clarkkent93> shoot...i didn't see them
[11:27] <cliebow> clarkkent93, got it figgered out?
[11:27] <clarkkent93> no
[11:27] <clarkkent93> i'm an idiot
[11:28] <clarkkent93> i used the gksudo synaptic command but don't see the packages
[11:28] <cliebow> i think there was a second add-on cd with lots of ed apps..but you can wing it with synaptic
[11:28] <clarkkent93> do i need to be hooked up to the internet to use it?
[11:28] <cliebow> system-administration->synaptic
[11:29] <cliebow> yes pretty much\
[11:29] <cliebow> to download
[11:29] <clarkkent93> maybe i'll wait until later to ask the question then....
[11:29] <clarkkent93> i did notice in the add/remove programs that it had the education programs listed but gave some reason why it couldn't be installed.
[11:30] <cliebow> ill try to keep an eye out for you..
[11:30] <cliebow> for what good it may do you 8~)
[11:30] <cliebow> you need a network connection for sure
[11:32] <cliebow> i see there are meta packages for edubuntu-addon-science and edubuntu-addon-young
[11:32] <cliebow> etc etc
[11:32] <cliebow> i am in gutsy so mine wont match yourn
[11:32] <clarkkent93> says doesn't support my computer type...x86 because it doesn't meet special hardware requirements or vendor doesn't support computer type
[11:34] <cliebow> what is your machine??anything special?
[11:35] <clarkkent93> nope...amd athlon...homebuilt system
[11:36] <clarkkent93> small hd..only 13gb...imagine that!  hehe...there's still about 9 gigs left though
[11:36] <clarkkent93> 256 mg ram
[11:36] <cliebow> shouyld be just fine..
[11:37] <clarkkent93> thought so...weird...maybe it will work out fine once i get the network connection going
[11:37] <cliebow> get hooked up.. give it a whirl..usually helpful folks on #edubuntu
[11:37] <clarkkent93> once i hook up the lan...anything special i need to do to set it up?
[11:37] <clarkkent93> or should it be automatic?
[11:37] <cliebow> maybe run update-manager first
[11:38] <cliebow> get latest of everything..then choose packages
[11:44] <clarkkent93> thaks cliebow!  i'll be back on later after i do the updates and let you know how it goes


[09:55] <mitya57> Hi! There is no sil2100, but maybe someone else can look why https://bileto.ubuntu.com/log/4900/build/1/ got stuck?
[12:20] <ahasenack> TIL dh-nss exists, to install /etc/nsswitch.conf services
[12:20] <ahasenack> more specifically, to add entries to /etc/nsswitch.conf
[12:20] <ahasenack> sergiodj: ^ FYI
[13:40] <slyon> enr0n: FYI: systemd FTBFS with the new glibc 2.36 from -proposed. I integrated the upstream fix to solve this: https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu/+source/systemd/commit/?h=ubuntu-kinetic&id=1e8048741cc0f811faf6b9e713a3fb7e38ef3503
[14:03] <enr0n> slyon: cool, thanks!
[15:41] <arraybolt3[m]> Hey, quick question for y'all - if I hit a source code file in software I'm helping package that is under a license that isn't specifically named and doesn't look like any license I've seen before, how do I put that in debian/copyright?
[15:42] <arraybolt3[m]> (The file is in an audio plugin package I'm working on making the debian/copyright file for, it's made by Apple and the license, while it is free and open-source, it's also not anything I've seen. It looks... BSD-inspired, maybe? But definitely not BSD AFAICT.)
[15:46] <rbasak> arraybolt3[m]: I think the hard requirement is merely that it's DFSG-compatible and that it's documented in debian/copyright. So you can paste the license, or install the file somewhere if it's large and then mention that in debian/copyright, etc.
[15:47] <rbasak> arraybolt3[m]: if you're following dep5 (https://dep-team.pages.debian.net/deps/dep5/) then you can add a License section that contains the license.
[15:47] <rbasak> arraybolt3[m]: there's an example on that page. Search for "PSF-2"
[15:48] <rbasak> "If there are licenses present in the package without a standard short name, an arbitrary short name may be assigned for these licenses."
[15:48] <arraybolt3[m]> rbasak: Ah, thank you for that link! It says I can use an arbitrary short name, which is what I needed to know.
[15:48] <arraybolt3[m]> Thank you!
[15:50] <rbasak> Ah I said above you can link to a separate file, but that's wrong. That's only allowed for a specific limited list: https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-docs.html#s-copyrightfile
[15:50] <rbasak> Apart from that debian/copyright must contain the full license text.
[15:51] <arraybolt3[m]> That's not a problem, it's a short license.
[15:51] <rbasak> Sure. Just correcting myself for the record.
[16:02] <cyphermox> if you want to find a name for it you could also grep the SPDX github for a meaningful portion of the license text, in case it shows up
[16:02] <cyphermox> https://github.com/spdx/license-list-XML/tree/master/src
[16:10] <sergiodj> ahasenack: TIL indeed
[16:16] <arraybolt3[m]> cyphermox: Thanks, that's handy! Looks like it's some very shortened variant of APL to me (still not quite the same though). I guess I'll call it ASPL (Apple Short Public License).
[17:16] <cyphermox> arraybolt3[m]: if it's not quite the same I would just not give it a name
[17:17] <arraybolt3[m]> cyphermox: You can do that? I thought it had to have a short name.
[19:20] <cyphermox> I wouldn't invent a name
[19:26] <sarnold> you wouldn't download a license
[19:27] <Eickmeyer[m]> You wouldn't download RAM either.
[20:27] <arraybolt3[m]> Well then what should I do if the license has no name and the specification requires a short name?
[20:28] <arraybolt3[m]> I mean, the doc literally says to invent a name.
[20:38] <luis220413> Please reopen bug 1843806
[20:39] <luis220413> The status of this bug was set by the reporter to Won't Fix immediately after reporting it.
[20:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> luis220413: You need to take that up with teward . He's the person that closed it as "Won't Fix" and is a seasoned developer. We are not going to override his decision.
[21:00] <Eickmeyer[m]> And, once again, stop with the insistence. You've been warned.
[21:00] <luis220413> Eickmeyer[m]: This seems to be a mistake, because he said that this bug will not be fixed for Eoan (the development series at the time the bug was filed) but may be considered for Focal.
[21:00] <teward> i'm... confused
[21:00] <teward> why am i receiving pings?
[21:01] <luis220413> teward: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bind9/+bug/1843806/comments/5
[21:01] <luis220413> teward: You are receiving pings because this is your Launchpad username.
[21:01] <teward> i was talking to Eickmeyer[m] ;)
[21:01] <Eickmeyer[m]> teward: Because he wants to reopen a bug you closed as "Won't Fix".
[21:03] <teward> then he can file his own SRU bug.  The original SRU is closed as wont fix and is staying dead.  And I dont think SRU intended to add new features despite a MIR completing or not
[21:03] <Eickmeyer[m]> luis220413: ^
[21:03] <teward> luis220413: 'revisited' was not a guarantee it would be looked at
[21:04] <teward> and guess what i got other priorities than bind9 dnstap
[21:04] <Eickmeyer[m]> That's the correct procedure.
[21:04] <teward> luis220413: if you want this considered for 20.04 onwards you have to file a *new* SRU request
[21:05] <teward> dont touch the dead dnstap sru i filed.
[21:05] <teward> Eickmeyer[m]: hes been warned about what insistence?  DM me specific logs / references please
[21:06] <teward> fyi i'm coming off a day long shift of beating an ms365 + exchange mail cluster at FT job to make it behave with an onprem app so i'm extra grumpy today
[21:08] <luis220413> teward: I just filed bug 1986586.
[21:09] <luis220413> I reset the status to New.
[21:09] <teward> and i need more pings on this why?
[21:09] <teward> i'm not Release Team.
[21:10] <sarnold> I have to expect the SRU team will require significantly more compelling test plan and problem sections
[21:12] <teward> ^^ that though
[21:12] <teward> sarnold knows all
[21:12] <teward> speaking of sarnold i summon you to dms
[21:12] <sarnold> eek I'm being dragged to another window! help help!
[21:13] <luis220413> sarnold: What do you mean?
[21:16] <sarnold> luis220413: take a look at the bug template again https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#SRU_Bug_Template  "detailed instructions" and "imagine the change is wrong or breaks something else, how would this show up?"
[21:17] <sarnold> luis220413: those aren't idle questions. go through the old SRUs and take a look at questions the SRU team has asked people who've proposed SRUs in the past. they expect details before they'll distribute changes to the tens of millions of ubuntu users.
[22:01] <luis220413> sarnold: I updated the bug with a complete test plan and an improved regression analysis.


[01:45] <dimaspaf14> Hi
[17:46] <hackos> Hello
[17:46] <hackos> Im not able to install xubuntu on my pc
[17:46] <hackos> Im dual booting with windows
[17:47] <hackos> To check something before i remove windows
[17:47] <hackos> It get stuck updates and software page
[17:47] <hackos> And its stuck there for hours
[17:48] <hackos> Or its days ubi-partman error
[17:48] <hackos> Says*


[00:07] <magicaltrout> if nothing else kwmonroe at least Hue shows me whats missing and whats completely borked currently in the Big Data stack :P
[02:05] <veebers> kelvin_: can you remember what the "extra thing" was to use docker installed from snap? i.e. so you didn't need to use sudo
[02:07] <kelvin_> veebers, the thing was snap version of docker was a little bit out of date, so the flag we need was introduced does not work
[02:07] <veebers> kelvin_: ah, sorry this is me using it locally on my machine. I tire of having to use 'sudo', I'm sure there was something to work around that, but perhaps it required a logout or something
[02:08] <kelvin_> veebers, it's not related the user group.
[02:08] <kelvin_> veebers, if u wanna use docker without sudo, then u just need to add ur user to the docker group
[02:08] <veebers> kelvin_: ah I see, it's in the readme https://github.com/docker/docker-snap
[02:09] <veebers> kelvin_: also, that states that docker snaps won't be updated, so you made the right choice with the install type for that job! L:-)
[02:10] <kelvin_> aha :->
[02:38] <veebers> wallyworld: Hmm, I'm having trouble with the charm command trying to push a charm with a docker resource (I get: unsupported resource type "docker", after adding a filename to the resource as it complains about that too which it shouldn't)
[02:38] <veebers> this is with the edge snap of charm installed
[02:45]  * veebers tries building from source
[02:48] <wallyworld> veebers: is that a cmd message or one from the store?
[02:49] <veebers> wallyworld: good question, I assumed from the command. I do have JUJU_CHARMSTORE exported, let me check I have that setup properly
[02:50] <veebers> wallyworld: that seems fine, charm whoami stats I'm not logged into the staging
[02:51] <veebers> ah shoot, I need to remember my username/password now ^_^
[02:51] <wallyworld> lol
[02:51] <veebers> ah wait, which sso does the staging use? Probably staging sso?
[03:00] <veebers> hmm, charm login doesn't work anyway
[03:05] <veebers> wallyworld: yeah, if I set JUJU_CHARMSTORE to the staging env, I can't charm login. I'll fire off an email
[03:09] <wallyworld> veebers: ah bollocks ok
[03:33] <thumper> babbageclunk: just a quick check, but this lease refactoring keeps both bits working right?
[03:33] <babbageclunk> thumper: both bits meaning singular and leadership?
[03:34] <babbageclunk> yes, I think so - tests all pass.
[03:34] <thumper> both bits meaning mongo and raft
[03:34] <babbageclunk> raft isn't there yet
[03:34] <babbageclunk> I mean, it's there but doesn't know about leases
[03:35] <thumper> ok, so this is just paving the way?
[03:35] <babbageclunk> yup
[03:35] <babbageclunk> But the idea is that they'll both be working, and we can select between them at bootstrap time.
[03:35] <thumper> um...
[03:36] <thumper> at controller config time?
[03:36] <thumper> don't we want to be able to switch in a running system?
[03:36] <babbageclunk> Well, maybe, if we're alright with all of the leadership changing at that point.
[03:36] <thumper> I think that'd be fine.
[03:36] <thumper> I've been thinking a little
[03:36] <babbageclunk> Then yeah, that should be fine
[03:37] <thumper> it would be nice if an operator could say "make that unit the leader"
[03:37] <thumper> just something to think about
[03:37] <thumper> consider our rolling upgrades
[03:37] <thumper> upgrade a single non leader unit
[03:37] <babbageclunk> Yeah, you've mentioned something like that before.
[03:37] <thumper> then make it the leader
[03:37] <thumper> then upgrade the others
[03:37] <thumper> something like that...
[03:37] <thumper> I imaging that there will be some weird edge cases...
[03:38] <babbageclunk> Yeah, definitely - what if that machine dies first.
[03:38] <babbageclunk> But worth a try. I'm keen to get the existing stuff working first though.
[03:38] <thumper> definitely
[03:43] <kelvin_> wallyworld, can i have ur a few minutes to dicuss charms for gpu testing?
[03:51] <thumper> babbageclunk: fyi tests failed, didn't check what
[03:52] <babbageclunk> thumper: ooh, thanks
[05:03] <veebers> babbageclunk, thumper: is there a way in a JujuConnSuite (or so) to set a controller config? If so I can alter these deploy test just a little to cover using the charmstore url from controller config across the board
[05:03] <babbageclunk> veebers: there is, I'm just trying to remember how you do it.
[05:05] <babbageclunk> veebers: Try setting s.ControllerConfigAttrs in the SetupTest before you call s.JujuConnSuite.SetupTest
[05:06] <veebers> babbageclunk: awesome, cheers! I'll give that a bang
[05:06] <babbageclunk> veebers: you can see an example in apiserver/admin_test.go
[05:08] <veebers> babbageclunk: is s.Session.DB setup by the ConnSuite?
[05:08] <babbageclunk> uhhh
[05:08] <veebers> I ask because I need to get the charmstore url created by new server as a controller config, if I need to do that before conn.SetupTest then I have an issue ^_^
[05:09] <veebers> I think it does
[05:11] <babbageclunk> oh, yeah, it's setup in MgoSuite.SetUpTest, which gets called from JujuConnSuite.SetUpTest.
[05:11] <babbageclunk> Sounds like you need a closed time-like loop.
[05:12] <babbageclunk> So what generates the charmstore url?
[05:12] <babbageclunk> veebers: ^
[05:13] <veebers> babbageclunk: charmstore.NewServer(db, nil, "", params, charmstore.V5) creates a handler which is then passed into httptest.NewServer(handler), the result of that has the URL. (not db in NewServer is from s.Session.DB("juju-testing"))
[05:13] <babbageclunk> hmm
[05:14] <veebers> babbageclunk: hah is MgoSuite.SetUpTest idempotent? ^_^
[05:14] <veebers> no, it's not
[05:15] <babbageclunk> worth a try though
[05:17] <veebers> babbageclunk: hmm, actually being able to do that might not be as useful as I originally thought, so not a biggie that I can't. Thanks for sorting me out on that though
[05:17] <babbageclunk> You could extend the ControllerConfigAttrs handling so that if there's a callback set it calls it to get the config attrs
[05:17] <babbageclunk> And by default the callback just returns s.ControllerConfigAttrs
[05:18] <babbageclunk> That would give you a chance to get the url
[05:18] <babbageclunk> It's awful but the JujuConnSuite setup is already terrible
[05:19] <veebers> ^_^
[05:32] <veebers> babbageclunk: quick query, I'm doing this, is there a better way? https://pastebin.canonical.com/p/WVgsk2pKbf/
[05:32] <veebers> as the patched function now takes the url to use, but it needs to be that one specifically
[05:33] <babbageclunk> looking...
[05:35] <babbageclunk> oh, I see - yeah, I think that's ok. Not sure how else you could do it, without knowing the rest of the code.
[05:35] <veebers> babbageclunk: ack, cheers. wasn't sure if there was a better way than taking a ref and using that
[05:37] <babbageclunk> Well, depending on what else it does if you could bypass calling the patched out function that would probably be simpler.
[05:37] <babbageclunk> but I think that's fine.
[05:38] <veebers> The patched function does what was returned pretty much (at this point at least) but felt it was patching too much, would be nice to not even need the patch
[05:40] <babbageclunk> yeah, if you can avoid it better not to, but sometimes that's really difficult.
[05:42] <babbageclunk> ugh, just found a test that passes if it's run with the others in its suite but fails when run by itself (or in a ci build, apparently)
[05:43] <veebers> ugh :-\ that's going to be fun to nail down
[05:44] <babbageclunk> well, easier than the other way around
[05:44] <veebers> true, half-full then :-)
[05:51] <veebers> wallyworld: FYI https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8896
[05:52] <veebers> ah damn, the formatting for the PR comment is borked, I misunderstood what it would look like from the vim buffer 'hub pull-request' bought up
[05:52]  * veebers will fix that after dinner
[06:51] <vino> wallyworld: do u have min to discuss regarding the version increment
[06:51] <wallyworld> sure
[06:51] <vino> HO
[07:14] <vino> wallyworld: sorry i was a bit away during ur discussion.
[07:14] <wallyworld> no problem, i'll jump back in
[07:15] <vino> :p
[07:15] <vino> k thank u
[10:08] <stickupkid> I'm guessing that file shouldn't be there - https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/develop/apiserver/dependencies.tsv
[10:13] <stickupkid> PR of removal https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8898
[12:01] <JaniferHe> help
[12:01] <JaniferHe> juju status
[15:05] <rathore_> Anyone faced any issues with bionic host and bionic lxc containers?
[15:05] <rathore_> My bionic containers are started and has IP ( saw in host) but Juju is still thinks it doesnt have IP
[15:29] <hml> rick_h_: so it turns out there is a MinRootDiskSizeGiB() used by vsphere and gce, but not the others.- 8Gb.
[15:30] <rick_h_> hml: ah gotcha that makes sense
[15:33] <rathore_> rick_h_: Would you have any idea. juju starts bionic lxc containers and wait indefinitely
[15:34] <rick_h_> rathore_: no, there were some issues addressed in 2.4.0 with pulling in maas resolve info and such but nothing I can think of about not getting an IP?
[15:34] <rathore_> rick_h_: sudo lxc list on host shows me that IPs are there. I have tried 2.4 and 2.4(beta)
[15:35] <rick_h_> rathore_: is there anything in the debug-log about the machines not coming up? anything more in juju status --format=yaml around the machines status?
[15:36] <rathore_> I am just deploying again and would paste as soon as I see any logs
[15:46] <rathore_> rick_h_: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/HdDw4HDWCR/ is from yaml output
[15:56] <rathore_> rick_h_: Ok, so the containers are still downloading the tools from controller
[15:56] <rathore_> somehow the networking in container is messed up
[15:57] <rathore_> rick_h_: The file downloads are fine on host but toooo slow in container
[16:08] <rathore_> rick_h_: It seems to be lxdbr0 issue, it is not connected to any network
[16:08] <rathore_> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/6YqtgNBpxZ/
[17:30] <cory_fu> rick_h_: I've got some updates for conjure-up and cloud integrator charms for the Juju Show, FYI
[17:31] <rick_h_> cory_fu: woot woot
[17:31] <stokachu> rick_h_, is that discourse board going to be officially staying? i want to direct all non bugs from github conjure-up to that forum
[17:32] <rick_h_> stokachu: yes, we're just ramping it up
[17:32] <stokachu> rick_h_, is it ok if i start pointing people there?
[17:34] <rick_h_> stokachu: by all means
[17:34] <stokachu> thanks
[17:34] <rick_h_> stokachu: I'm going to bring it up on the show and we're slowly starting to port docs/notes/etc and will kill the lists in a few
[17:34] <stokachu> rick_h_, ack, sounds good
[17:43] <cory_fu> rick_h_: Oh, and if there's time for it, also a change to the interface for layer options.
[17:43] <rick_h_> cory_fu: k, sounds good
[17:43] <rick_h_> cory_fu: did you see there's a charms and charming in the new discourse as well?
[17:43] <rick_h_> cory_fu: it'd be great to kick some discussions/etc that way as we flesh it out
[17:44] <rick_h_> bdx: have a test bundle I can demo today?
[17:44] <cory_fu> rick_h_: Yep, I was working on a write up for the layer options bit on there already
[17:44] <rick_h_> cory_fu: <3
[17:50] <rick_h_> cory_fu: kwmonroe bdx and anyone else that wants in, 10min to Juju Show
[17:51] <rick_h_> https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/kstii25wdnd5jorqvle3grpblae for joining the conversation and ...
[17:51] <rick_h_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0R5DC7_Dio for watching me make a fool of myself live on the interwebs :)
[18:02] <cory_fu> https://tutorials.ubuntu.com/tutorial/tutorial-charm-development-part1#0
[18:03] <kwmonroe> https://discourse.jujucharms.com/
[18:10] <cory_fu> I didn't realize you could bootstrap an older controller.  That will be very useful
[18:13] <cory_fu> https://docs.conjure-up.io/devel/en/conjurefile
[18:14] <cory_fu> https://jujucharms.com/u/containers/aws-integrator/
[18:14] <cory_fu> https://jujucharms.com/u/containers/gcp-integrator/
[18:14] <cory_fu> https://jujucharms.com/u/containers/openstack-integrator/
[18:17] <cory_fu> Full changelog for conjure-up: https://github.com/conjure-up/conjure-up/blob/master/CHANGELOG.md
[18:29] <rick_h_> cory_fu: kwmonroe feel free to update https://discourse.jujucharms.com/t/juju-show-37-2-4-0-lxd-show-and-tell-and-more/60 if you have additional links/notes to drop in there
[18:29] <rick_h_> ty for the idea kwmonroe
[20:32] <thumper> morning team
[20:32] <dparrish> g'morning maestro!  ;-)
[20:53] <veebers> Morning all o/
[21:15] <magicaltrout> hacked together an oozie charm kwmonroe as i don't see one in the store anywhere thats current
[21:15] <magicaltrout> i'll get someone to clean it up and send it upstream if you want to add it to the bigtop charms
[21:17] <kwmonroe> +100 magicaltrout!  i saw the open jira about puppet and oozie client/server.  did you sort that out?
[21:18] <magicaltrout> well
[21:18] <magicaltrout> it's a bodge
[21:18] <magicaltrout> but it works
[21:18] <kwmonroe> i'll google bodge later
[21:19] <magicaltrout> run puppet -> fix the package -> rerun puppet to finish the install
[21:19] <kwmonroe> ah, so normal puppet then ;)
[21:19] <magicaltrout> pretty much
[21:29] <maaudet> What is supposed to show under the "LABELS" column when running juju metrics ?
[21:45] <rick_h_> maaudet: it's optional for charms to supply a label to the metric in order to tell things apart in the data coming out
[21:49] <maaudet> rick_h_: I see. If I'd like to add a label to my metrics on my charms, where would I put it? Is it simply a key "label" to add in my metrics.yaml objects?
[21:49] <rathore_> rick_h_: Nice show today. For life of me I cannot get juju to work with bionic. The lxd containers have some issue with networking. The packet speeds are in bytes/sec. The configuration works well with xenial. https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/6YqtgNBpxZ/
[21:53] <veebers> wallyworld: I got access to the staging store, I needed to log in via the web ui, I needed to build charm from source and I also needed to RTFM for the image attach :-)
[22:34] <wallyworld> veebers: great, so unblocked.....
[22:34] <veebers> wallyworld: aye, onwards and upwards
[22:35] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: i need a more experienced person to review a change with an upgrade step https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8900
[22:35] <wallyworld> no rush
[22:35] <veebers> wallyworld: just sorting out the test failures on my WIP PR, I think it'll need some more. If you get that chance could you review and assess?(https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/8896)
[22:35] <wallyworld> sure
[22:43] <wallyworld> veebers: quick initial comment - the controller config has the default value as "". It should probably be csclient.ServerURL. That avoids checks for != "" in places and also makes it explicit when printing controller config what the url used will be
[22:44] <veebers> wallyworld: ah, good point. I though leaving it to the construction of the client and passing "" would default fine, but what you're suggesting is the same result && more explicit /obvious
[22:45] <wallyworld> veebers: there's a place in the PR outside of the actual client where we check for != ""
[22:45] <wallyworld> this would avoid that as well as being explicit
[22:53] <veebers> ack
[23:02] <wallyworld> veebers: left some initial comments
[23:05] <veebers> wallyworld: ack.  Oh, you dont' think conConfig doesn't just roll off the tongue? Like Con-Air? :-)
[23:50] <wallyworld> vino: i left some comments - ping me if it's unclear
[23:51] <vino> sure wallyworld


[01:03] <bkerensa> valorie: Ubuntu Oregon is teaming up with Debian for a event on the weekend of Dec 3/4 if anyone in WA is interested.... It will be a Debian/Ubuntu Local Jam
[01:03] <bkerensa> :D
[01:03] <bkerensa> just have anyone interested in coming ping me directly until we do our coordinated announcement early next week :D
[01:04] <valorie> that sounds awesome
[01:04] <valorie> I'll see what's on the calendar -- I know I have to take my dad to a couple of doctor's appts
[01:04] <valorie> but I would so LOVE to come down
[01:04] <valorie> and get away from here!
[01:04] <valorie> lol
[01:05] <bkerensa> valorie: Yeah I'm stoked to learn about packaging not that I want to ever be a Ubuntu Dev but I would like to package some stuff up :D
[01:05] <valorie> packagers rock -- they give us our distro, basically
[01:05] <valorie> I love our kubuntu team
[01:07] <valorie> ok, off to dinner
[02:47] <dougpiston> to funny, hello androidbruce


[00:06] <Azelphur> gah, royal mail has been down for ages :(
[07:35] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:23] <jacobw> morgen
[08:48] <diplo> Morning all
[09:19] <mungbean> how can i check memory usage of firefox tabs?  2596m 1.5g  19m R   73 38.8 975:04.84 firefox
[09:20] <diplo> about:memory ?
[09:20] <mungbean> thats what i'm trying: the page has been trying to load for 10 mins :(
[09:21] <mungbean> hmm facebook 800M
[09:23] <diplo> yeah the JS in G+/FB etc make my tabs get huge occasionally
[09:23] <mungbean> killing facebook seems to recover the machine :D
[09:23] <diplo> 129mb/55mb atm, which isn't that bad for mine :)
[09:23] <mungbean> left it runnign overnight?
[09:24] <mungbean> trying to switch back from chrome which is killing my machine
[09:24] <mungbean> but it seems that its just browsers/websites in general
[09:24] <mungbean> need 8GB instead of 4GB RAM
[09:26] <BigRedS> Anyone got a recommendation for a free softphone for android?
[09:27] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
[09:27] <BigRedS> Goood Morning!
[09:27] <JamesTait> BigRedS, o/
[09:28] <JamesTait> BigRedS, let me see what I used before I got my phone in a mess.
[09:28] <JamesTait> Lumicall or something.
[09:28] <BigRedS> haha, I don't want the thing that caused the mess :)
[09:28] <JamesTait> BigRedS, no, that's OK, I'm not for sale. ;)
[09:30] <JamesTait> BigRedS, https://f-droid.org/wiki/page/org.lumicall.android
[09:30] <JamesTait> BigRedS, https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.lumicall.android&hl=en
[09:31] <JamesTait> I have to admit I barely used it. I received a couple of calls on it, that's all, but I had no problems with it.
[09:35] <BigRedS> haha, that's fine. Hopefully nobody will call me anyway :)
[09:35] <BigRedS> thanks!
[09:44] <diplo> Anyone in here ever use Cisco Unified Communications Server ?
[10:14] <Myrtti> whooooop https://plus.google.com/103583604759580854844/posts/HaHsZCNEr3q
[10:15] <Myrtti> finally Google Play gift cards!
[10:16] <bigcalm> git branch -a
[10:16] <bigcalm> Humm, not the shell
[10:39] <Laney> * master
[10:39] <Laney>  fix-nasty-bug
[10:40] <bigcalm> Heh
[10:40] <bigcalm> Did it?
[10:40] <Laney> no it rm -rf my home directory and then insulted my mother :(
[10:45] <bigcalm> Trixy devs
[10:46] <SuperMatt> has anyone been finding libcolumbus to be... less than optimal?
[10:46] <Laney> it has some kind of matching problem
[10:47] <knightwise> hey everyone
[10:47] <Laney> we just discussed that in the desktop channel
[10:47] <SuperMatt> right right
[10:47] <Laney> spotif -> gedit for me
[10:47] <SuperMatt> same
[10:47] <SuperMatt> I just tried qt creator, and it was on the 4th line
[10:48] <Laney> apparently there is a fix
[10:48] <SuperMatt> oh the plus side, typing frief brings back firefox
[10:48] <SuperMatt> which is the plan, no less?
[10:49] <kaushal> Hi
[10:50] <kaushal> I have pidgin installed on Ubuntu 11.10. is there a way to integrate it with dash program?
[10:50] <kaushal> meaning lets say if i need to IM person A, is there a short cut?
[10:51] <kaushal> similar to GnomeDo?
[10:56] <Laney> kaushal: you might look for a "pidgin lens"
[10:57] <Laney> but 11.10 is quite old so that may make it more difficult
[10:58] <kaushal> Laney: ok
[10:59] <kaushal> Laney: any url to know about pidgin lens
[11:02] <bigcalm> kaushal: have you had a look in USC?
[11:05]  * Laney just had two blokes and a dog standing outside his front garden staring at and patting the tree there
[11:05] <Laney> (in the garden)
[11:13] <BigRedS> Oooh. All those Jabber accounts I couldn't get into empahy yesterday seem to go in okay if I configure them in pidgin then run an unconfigured empathy and tell it to import from pidgin
[11:31] <mungbean> BigRedS: i have a jabber account that will never work in empathy
[11:31] <mungbean> due to server side bug, apparently. although pidgin always works
[11:37] <BigRedS> ooh, which server?
[11:51] <mungbean> BigRedS: zimbra version old
[11:51] <mungbean> i can't upgrade the company zimbra server just to use empathy :P
[11:59] <SuperMatt> urgh, t'other day I believe I can across a command which, if placed before another command, will list the files that command is trying to access
[11:59] <SuperMatt> I could be wrong, but does anyone know what that command might be?
[12:02] <mgdm> strace? which is probably overkill
[12:02] <SuperMatt> could be :/
[12:02] <SuperMatt> it doesn't look right though
[12:02] <SuperMatt> it doesn't matter
[12:02] <SuperMatt> it's a means to and end
[12:02] <popey> ldd?
[12:02] <SuperMatt> I could just ask the question that's causing the issue, rather than figure it out myself
[12:03] <davmor2> Morning all
[12:03] <mgdm> strace -e open /path/to/your/command
[12:03] <SuperMatt> no, that didn't work :(
[12:03] <mgdm> ldd shows the libraries a binary is linked to
[12:03] <popey> "doesnt work"?
[12:03] <BigRedS> strace -e trace=file <command>   will list all the files that command is trying to use
[12:04] <BigRedS> there's not much scope for it not doing that, really
[12:04] <SuperMatt> thanks for the help, but I'm going to AskUbuntu about the underlying problem I'm trying to solve
[12:09] <SuperMatt> http://askubuntu.com/questions/264680/running-usr-lib-nagios-plugins-check-apt-as-nagios-user-does-not-return-the-cor
[12:30] <diplo> Seems a permissions issue for apt on the nagios user SuperMatt ?
[12:30] <diplo> if it works as root ?
[12:30] <diplo> Use Nagios, but never tried check_apt
[12:32] <diplo> Tried running apt from the nagios user locally on the server that doesn't work ?
[13:02] <SuperMatt> diplo: well, that's the thing. the nagios user shouldn't have access to run apt(-get) otherwise dangerous things happen. I think it's checking something else
[13:47] <mungbean> anyone tried to sync tomboy notes since feb 28th?
[13:47] <mungbean> i'm scared
[13:48] <jpickett> wasn't that being deprecated
[13:49] <popey> mungbean: backup, sync
[13:49] <popey> see what happens
[13:49] <SuperMatt> is there any way I can fake a package needing an upgrade?
[13:50] <neuro> sudo apt-get --lookintotheeyes --notaroundtheeyes abracadabra
[13:50] <SuperMatt> ¬.¬
[13:50] <SuperMatt> I see what you did there
[13:51] <neuro> I see that you saw what I did there
[13:51] <bigcalm> I sell sea shells on the sea shore
[13:51] <neuro> is the package that's installed out of date?
[13:51] <neuro> or are you just trying something funky?
[13:52] <popey> there's a test mode
[13:52] <popey> apt-get install -s cowsay
[13:52] <popey> s = simulate
[13:52] <SuperMatt> hmmm, but that doesn't put it in a perpetual state of "this package needs an upgrade"
[13:53] <popey> oh, thats easy then
[13:53] <popey> find a package which has been updated via -updates
[13:53] <popey> and then downgrade it
[13:53] <popey> apt-get install packagename=versionnumber
[13:53] <SuperMatt> wicked
[13:53] <popey> apt-cache policy packagename
[13:53] <popey> that will help
[13:53] <SuperMatt> now to pick a random, harmless package that has been updated since 12.04
[13:54] <neuro> kernel?
[13:54] <popey> thats also easy
[13:54] <popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/precise-changes/2013-March/thread.html
[13:54] <popey> pick one
[14:09] <SuperMatt> popey: I'm getting version was not foud when trying apt-get install mountall=2.36.2
[14:10] <brobostigon> !info mountall
[14:11] <SuperMatt> same again with another package
[14:26] <SuperMatt> got it! thanks popey
[14:26] <SuperMatt> I didn't realise the package needed to be not installed first
[14:28] <popey> no
[14:28] <popey> you can downgrade
[14:29] <directhex> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21677119
[14:30] <SuperMatt> hurm, well downgrading didn't want to work
[14:30] <SuperMatt> so I installed an app I knew had been updated that I didn't have, and that seemed to work
[14:31] <mungbean> directhex: which OS will it run? or miht it run various OS depending on spec?
[14:37] <popey> it ships with linux mungbean
[14:38] <mungbean> did they confirm for all models? sweet
[14:38] <directhex> if it's from valve it'll be linux
[14:38] <mungbean> thats gotta mean a sizeable back catalogue will get ported soon
[14:39] <mungbean> they gonna be busy bunnies
[14:39] <directhex> busy not working on hl3!
[14:40] <mungbean> still haven't finished hl2
[14:40] <mungbean> stopped when i stopped using windows
[14:40] <mungbean> and got married
[14:40] <mungbean> one of the 2
[15:00] <redtape-renegade> Ayone noticed the value of Bitcoins has gone through the roof recently ??
[15:01] <redtape-renegade> **Anyone .. ??
[15:02] <redtape-renegade> http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxGBP#tgSzm1g10zm2g25zv
[15:02] <BigRedS> As in upwards? odd
[15:03] <popey> yeah
[15:03] <redtape-renegade> BigRedS: Lokking at the charts ..  In fact I don't know of better Ret. on Invest. for 2012/13 in  last 18 months , do you ?
[15:10] <BigRedS> Blimey. I thought everyone had, in the main, got bored of bitcoin by now
[15:10] <redtape-renegade> BigRedS: Really ?
[15:11] <BigRedS> yeah, just not heard anything about it for ages
[15:13] <redtape-renegade> Admitedly, for a short term trader the returns are closer to 200% month on month, but after you put about 20million in GBP on for an 18 month straight investment.. there's a billion pounds return to consider ..
[15:14]  * redtape-renegade wonders if he can trade in his Tesco vouchers for a bitcoin or two :D  ??
[15:17] <redtape-renegade> oh, Actually you'd need £63 million :(   to make a billion (so far)..
[15:18] <redtape-renegade> Bitcoin should have ask me last week when I was flush    :)
[15:37] <redtape-renegade> BigRedS: Your probably right, Only 1 bloke does it in IOM ::: https://localbitcoins.com/
[15:39] <Laney> oho
[15:39] <Laney> rms is giving a(nother) talk in nottingham next monday
[15:39]  * Laney ponders whether to go
[15:40] <redtape-renegade> RMS should dop an interview with Alan Parson's , then.
[15:40] <directhex> Laney, do you have any odd jobs around the house to do? spot of plastering, maybe some hoovering?
[15:40] <popey> washing your hair?
[15:40] <directhex> painting, then watching it dry?
[15:41] <Laney> pots, almost boiling ones, waiting for them to become so
[15:41] <redtape-renegade> I'd mail yourself a to-do list right away .. it'll take a month to get through !
[15:42] <directhex> Laney, sounds much more fulfilling than watching a beardy old man give a talk he wrote in the 1980s
[15:43] <redtape-renegade> .. he doesn't even know what we call Gnu-ware on #freegamer anyway !!
[15:43] <mgdm> I spotted him at FOSDEM
[15:44] <redtape-renegade> yes, I hurd that.
[15:44] <redtape-renegade> .. any picts.. or wasted oppourtunity ?
[15:44] <mgdm> I don't generally take pictures of people I walk past in corridors
[15:45] <directhex> he was at fosdem? glad i skipped it this year
[15:45] <BigRedS> I didn't notice him there
[15:45] <redtape-renegade> he was in Dublin a day later ..
[15:45] <BigRedS> but it is always full of those free software hippies
[15:46] <redtape-renegade> .. I think they had a dinner by G+ invite at the muktware-guy's house together.
[15:46] <redtape-renegade> or so I hurd :)
[15:47] <popey> ahh Swapnil..
[15:48] <directhex> muktware is... not a world of quality free software journalism
[15:48] <popey> I have had multiple run-ins with him recently
[15:49] <popey> https://plus.google.com/u/0/109027644713767623413/posts/Z9hMvxLKDea being the most recent
[15:50] <BigRedS> Well, it's not as if Canonical's particularly concerned about that sort of PR
[15:51] <ali1234> tl;dr
[15:52] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I have indeed noticed, action is being taken :P
[15:53] <popey> haha
[15:54] <redtape-renegade> opening..
[15:59] <redtape-renegade> popey. looks like he got the last word in, anyway .. Semantic ethics about registered IOM companies bore the hell out of me. ::: Quite simply, I've done that.
[16:19]  * redtape-renegade desperately wants these to run ΰbuntu TV::
[16:19] <redtape-renegade> http://svn.xtreamer.net/marketing/display.php?M=67415&C=330819bd0ae0fc2919b73b65f51be1ff&S=26&L=2&N=33
[16:26] <jacobw> openstack /o\
[16:32] <Azelphur> aww yea, new laptop fits in my pocket \o/
[16:32] <BigRedS> How big is your new pocket?
[16:32] <Azelphur> that's an i7 2.3ghz with GT 650M, in my coat pocket lol
[16:32] <Azelphur> BigRedS: still tiny
[16:33] <BigRedS> is this a nuc or something?
[16:33] <Azelphur> no idea what a nuc is :)
[16:33] <redtape-renegade> Anyone's yahoo.co.uk Email just gone nutz ??  .. I've just had 50 'failure to post' messages in the last 5 mins..
[16:33] <Azelphur> 11.6", apparently worlds most powerful of that form factor
[16:33] <BigRedS> It's Intel's new diddy computer. A bit bigger than a Raspberry Pi.
[16:33] <BigRedS> actually, a lot bigger
[16:33] <BigRedS> but still really small
[16:34] <BigRedS> about half the size of a HDD in an enclosure
[16:35] <redtape-renegade> .. was it something I received ??
[16:35] <Azelphur> time for optimus fun I suppose
[16:38] <Azelphur> also, this mir thing seems to fill me with wtf
[16:40] <AlanBell> tried running it?
[16:40] <Azelphur> nope
[16:40] <Azelphur> it annoys me greatly that canonical don't work on wayland
[16:41] <Azelphur> and it seems almost naive of them to think that they can catch up with wayland
[16:42] <ali1234> they can catch up because they have a specific target
[16:42] <ali1234> it's always easier to "just make it work"
[16:42] <SuperMatt> from what I've seen so far, they seem to have already managed to make up a lot of distance
[16:42] <ali1234> the cyanogenmod stuff is a great example of that
[16:42] <ali1234> puts them far ahead of maemo, meego, mer
[16:42] <Azelphur> ali1234: not really, CyanogenMod is a modified build of Android
[16:42] <ali1234> and it only took what, 6 months?
[16:42] <Azelphur> Canonical are talking about rewriting the whole thing, right?
[16:42] <ali1234> not really
[16:43] <ali1234> wayland needs all new drivers
[16:43] <ali1234> that's part of the problem
[16:43] <ali1234> mir can use android drivers
[16:43] <BigRedS> I thought Cyanogen was way closer to Android than Ubuntu's aiming for
[16:43] <Azelphur> I see
[16:43] <redtape-renegade> Canonical: plz add displayport drivers.. pleeeease.
[16:43] <ali1234> it's different development models
[16:44] <BigRedS> I've not really been following it, though. I'm still a bit overwhelmed at how tall Canonical is heaping its plate
[16:44] <ali1234> wayland is rather open ended, designed to be all things
[16:44] <ali1234> mir is designed to just run unity plus legacy
[16:45] <directhex> wayland can use android drivers.
[16:46] <directhex> and mesa
[16:46] <directhex> mir is no further ahead than wayland on this
[16:50] <neuro> however, mir hasn't joined up with yutani to try and steal the xenomorphs from LV-426 ...
[16:51]  * neuro is pretty ambivalent about the whole mir/wayland thing at any rate
[16:52] <neuro> if there's a possibility of mir offering a better chance for something nicer than unity to be rolled in at a later date, i'm all for it
[16:52] <neuro> (nicer = IMHO, of course)
[16:53] <directhex> there are no technical reasons for mir over wayland. there are, however, political reasons for mir.
[16:53] <BigRedS> Most of my reservation is that it's really looking like Canonical decides to rewrite something, gets the fun and exciting bits out of the way and then gets bored and decides to rewrite something else
[16:53] <directhex> BigRedS, in fairness, lennart poettering does that too
[16:53] <BigRedS> which is great and all, but I'd really prefer it if the paid devs were forced into solving problems that the free ones don't want to :)
[16:54] <BigRedS> directhex: that, basically, is how free software in general works
[16:54] <BigRedS> which is why it's annoying that this is a *company* doing it
[16:54] <BigRedS> I mean, it's also entirely understandable, because it's a company that's composed largely of free software developers
[17:55] <jennie> hello
[17:55] <jennie> anyone from Uk
[17:55] <jennie> ?
[18:00] <directhex> plenty.
[18:01] <bigcalm> Mostly?
[18:01] <MartijnVdS> not all though
[18:01] <bigcalm> Enough
[18:01] <directhex> sufficient?
[18:05] <davmor2> some
[18:05] <shauno> apparently insufficient
[18:06] <jacobw> Perhaps that was a Ukranian
[18:06] <jacobw> I haven't seen one in here a while
[18:06] <davmor2> BigRedS: let see canonical produce upstart everyone hails it a success then Red Hat say hmmm maybe not and creat systemd.  Redhat however don't get the crap that canonical get for doing the same thing go figure
[18:13] <jennie> anyone from UK ?
[18:13] <davmor2> jennie: yes
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: Lennart gets all the crap for those things (Pulse, Systemd, ...)
[18:14] <popey> a few
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: not "big evil Red Hat"
[18:14] <popey> he's made some very valuable contributions to the linux desktop, that's for sure
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> pulse works great these days
[18:14] <popey> yup
[18:14] <ali1234> davmor2: red hat got a huge amount of criticism for systemd, everyone hates it, especially gentoo who have forked udev because of it
[18:15] <ali1234> davmor2: and upstart was not hailed a success, no other distro than ubuntu uses it
[18:15] <AlanBell> it was presented in an entirely different way
[18:16] <davmor2> ali1234: there were a whole bunch using it including RedHat
[18:16] <popey> AIUI Lennart contributed to Upstart in the early days
[18:16] <jacobw> jennie: this is Ubuntu UK, it's for people from the UK
[18:16] <popey> and offered to do some new features, then disappeared for 6 months and systemd appeared
[18:18] <popey> then it all got acrimonious between him and scott.. the rest is history
[18:18] <shauno> queue the 'Neighbours' theme tune
[18:18] <popey> I was thinking Eastenders
[18:18] <ali1234> *cue
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> cue queue
[18:18] <popey> thats the second time today I've seen someone use queue instead of cue
[18:19] <shauno> glad I could amuse :)
[18:19] <shauno> I'm going to blame it on 40 hours of uptime, and 5 years 'over there'
[18:19]  * AlanBell observes a lack of redhat press release about systemd
[18:19] <ali1234> is systemd even in red hat yet or just fedora?
[18:20] <AlanBell> http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html appears to be as much of an announcement that there was
[18:20] <shauno> they should just port launchd to linux.  it's pretty awesome having all your config files in something that's close enough to xml to make you hate it, but not close enough that an xml parser comes in handy
[18:20] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[18:20] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Time to reset your uptime ;)
[18:20] <RadiumCat> ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
[18:21] <popey> systemd was basically lennart replicating launchd
[18:21] <popey> as avahi was bonjour
[18:21] <ali1234> i do like the feature where it runs services on demand
[18:21] <popey> and pulse was core audio
[18:21] <ali1234> and avahi is really good
[18:21] <popey> yeah, systemd has some nice features
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: upstart was supposed to be able to do that
[18:21]  * MartijnVdS remembers Scott talking about that
[18:21] <ali1234> i've never heard anyone say a bad thing about avahi, and it just works
[18:22] <popey> systemd will be in RHEL next won't it?
[18:22] <popey> they've moved from upstart to systemd
[18:22] <davmor2> ali1234: The Last RedHat was upstart I think the very latest might now be on systemd
[18:22] <AlanBell> mir might be really good still
[18:23] <ali1234> well, as always... show me it working
[18:23] <AlanBell> but I don't really know if there is an intention for it to be more generic than supporting unity
[18:23] <AlanBell> I have it working
[18:24] <AlanBell> for small values of working
[18:24] <ali1234> do you have it working with a full desktop environment, to the point where it is equivalent to X11?
[18:24] <AlanBell> no, because nobody outside of Canonical does yet
[18:24] <AlanBell> it does a scrolly picture of the Mir space station in a green box
[18:24] <AlanBell> and there is a flippy scrolly pictures of mir demo
[18:24] <ali1234> so it's about where wayland was two years ago then
[18:25] <AlanBell> 6 months ago I think they said
[18:25] <AlanBell> however it can do more already
[18:25] <AlanBell> but I think there is a bunch of stuff still to be chucked over the wall
[18:26] <popey> there is?
[18:26] <AlanBell> xmir ?
[18:26] <ali1234> does anyone remember my 12 predictions for2013?
[18:26] <AlanBell> a buildable qmir?
[18:26] <shauno> when was the last time they didn't have something waiting to be 'chucked over the wall' ?
[18:27] <ali1234> "tada source"
[18:27] <AlanBell> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mir-team/qmir/trunk/files
[18:28] <AlanBell> anyone want to guess what to do with that?
[18:28] <ali1234> my guess is it's qt backend for mir?
[18:28] <AlanBell> yeah
[18:29] <AlanBell> so do I compile the cpp files individually? where do I put the object files?
[18:29] <ali1234> so you stick it into the qt5 tree and rebuild
[18:29] <ali1234> they call it a QPA - Qt Platform Abstraction
[18:29] <ali1234> not sure if this actually is one
[18:30] <popey> AlanBell: i just asked.. "goal is the end of the week"
[18:30] <ali1234> http://qt-project.org/wiki/Qt-Platform-Abstraction
[18:30] <ali1234> looks like it definitely is that
[18:30] <AlanBell> so download the qt tarball and find a home for this and build the tree
[18:30] <ali1234> how to use it though - no idea
[18:31] <ali1234> pretty much yes
[18:31] <AlanBell> or get the deb source and rebuild the package
[18:31] <AlanBell> popey: cool, thanks
[18:33] <popey> everything will go in the public ppa, buildable and available there
[18:33] <popey> taking longer than expected to get it all together
[18:33] <ali1234> what puzzles me
[18:34] <ali1234> is why keep it secret for a period of time, and then release it when it is barely functional?
[18:34] <ali1234> why not either have it open from the start, or do a big release when it is done?
[18:35] <popey> well it was started back before we announced phone and tablet
[18:35] <ali1234> so just for the sake of having omething interesting to say at MWC?
[18:35] <popey> people could probably figure out details from the source, and spoil the "big reveal"
[18:36] <ali1234> yeah but the thing is the big reveal was basiclly "we're making a phone, it will be done in two years"
[18:36] <popey> yeah, no
[18:36] <popey> it will be done way sooner than that
[18:36] <popey> but hey ho
[18:36] <ali1234> yeah right
[18:36] <popey> meh
[18:36] <ali1234> i admire you're optimism
[18:36] <ali1234> *your
[18:37] <shauno> (your.  since you pointed out the cue thing.  fair's fair)
[18:37] <shauno> d'oh
[18:44] <bigcalm> LUG TIME! \o/
[18:48] <popey> GLUG!
[20:09] <redtape-renegade> Is there an Ubuntu TV meeting at the UDS ??
[20:12] <popey> no
[20:15] <redtape-renegade> popey, It's all over, right ?
[20:35] <redtape-renegade> QU. Is The UDS over ??
[20:39] <ali1234> yes
[20:39] <AlanBell> UDS is over, yes
[20:40] <popey> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/914b5784e52c5967784eae44e4b138a346b1ff90?authuser=0 \o/
[21:02] <ali1234> google hangouts wants to use my wintv card and will not use my webcam :(
[21:03] <ali1234> oh well whatever. i'm mr interference
[21:18] <popey> Laney: ☹  no webcam
[21:26] <redtape-renegade> popey, did the hangout end ?
[21:27] <mungbean> i was in a meeting today, and some contractor referred to spacewalk as skywalker. as in "deploy your linux VMs with skywalker"
[21:27] <popey> no
[21:27] <mungbean> \o/
[21:27] <popey> i honestly didn't expect ali1234 to have that much hair
[21:27] <ali1234> lol
[21:28] <popey> you also smile more than i expected
[21:28] <ali1234> i do need a trim
[21:28] <popey> i expected some level of angry
[21:29] <ali1234> i do have pretty much the same reputation IRL
[21:29] <mungbean> what was the hangout in aid of?
[21:30] <popey> just hanging out
[21:31] <popey> usually after UDS sessions we go to the bar and chat
[21:34] <redtape-renegade> popey .. do you see a Lenny in the hangout .. 'cos I get zip.
[21:35] <popey> yes, arriving, leaving, arriving, leaving
[21:35] <redtape-renegade> dont get it ?
[21:35] <redtape-renegade> what should i do .. never used hangout on this netbook ?
[21:44] <redtape-renegade> popey, did you get that  ?
[21:53] <popey> no, it's not working
[21:55] <redtape-renegade> popey.. I'll try another distro, hangon .. back in 5 mins ..


[09:12] <Riddell> help needed in #kubuntu
[09:12] <Riddell> some one spamming lots
[09:12] <Riddell> !help
[09:12] <Riddell> hmm
[09:14] <DJones> Riddell: /mode +b<EMAIL_ADDRESS>looks like it would deal with that
[09:14] <DJones> Or maybe better given the nick change /mode +b<EMAIL_ADDRESS>looks like it would deal with that
[10:00] <benonsoftware> Riddell: Just letting you know you may want to remove/change that ban when you think things have settled, bit of a large ban. :)
[10:00] <Fuchs> DJones: I wouldn't recommend putting the ident in either, unless the user comes from a shared connection / gateway (such as shell)
[13:23] <GPenguin> hello, what is the proper next step when i want to attempt disputing a ban (from ikonia)?
[13:25] <GPenguin> is he high ranked enough so that it is worth it?
[13:25] <Fuchs> GPenguin: in what channel?  In the regular ones (#ubuntu, #ubuntu-offtopic etc.) it would be #ubuntu-ops, and not in here.
[13:25] <Fuchs> oh, it's you. Hi.
[13:26] <GPenguin> when i got banned from #ubuntu by ikonia i went to #ubuntu-ops where he accused me of faking logs and banned me there too
[13:27] <Fuchs> in that case, as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/AppealProcess, it would be in here,
[13:27] <Fuchs> you'd have to poke the IRCC.
[13:27] <Fuchs> or use the e-mail address mentioned there.
[13:28] <GPenguin> what if step 2 "contact the OP who mistreated you" is not possible due to pride?
[13:29] <Fuchs> this will probably have an impact on how the other steps will work out
[13:30] <Fuchs> if you tell them that you skipped a step on purpose due to silly reasons, I guess that chances to resolve it get a little bit worse.
[13:30] <Fuchs> but feel free to try.
[13:30] <GPenguin> since ikonia disrespects people of my kind and i therefore disrespect him the reason is not silly to avoid any kind of contact
[13:30] <Fuchs> the channel in question (#ubuntu) is logged in public though, so it should be trivial to check whether logs are correct or not.
[13:31] <Fuchs> as IRC doesn't know "kinds": I doubt that. But again: feel free to try.
[13:32] <GPenguin> lets say 1 friend in the council helps the other (we have seen that before with elky) the whole procedure seems pointless from my point of view. are there alternatives?
[13:32] <Fuchs> I'd recommend following the usual steps, but then I am not sure whether debating that with you makes any sense, hence: I gave you the steps to follow and the people / address to contact, feel free to do with that information whatever you see fit.
[13:32] <GPenguin> any chance of speaking to the community officially and asking them for an opinion?
[13:32] <Fuchs> The "alternatives" are mentioned on that page. If none of those work out: nope.
[13:33] <Fuchs> yes, that is what the council does. Feel free to contact them.
[13:33] <GPenguin> or to a community representative at least?
[13:33] <Fuchs> [15:32:44] <Fuchs> yes, that is what the council does. Feel free to contact them.
[13:33] <GPenguin> thats the role of the council? interesting.
[13:33] <GPenguin> that means all ubuntu users may vote people in or out of the council?
[13:34] <Fuchs> how the IRCC is elected can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil and imo doesn't really matter here,
[13:34] <GPenguin> how would you decide for _me_ what matters to me?
[13:35] <Fuchs> I don't, but given how you discuss this, and given past experience with you, I think this is going to be pretty pointless, hence I'm out. Good luck.
[13:35] <GPenguin> thats the beginning, Fuchs. that is respect which has not to be earned. it is given. from the superior person downwards to the other people
[13:35] <GPenguin> and you failed.
[13:36] <GPenguin> we both know why you failed. and _that_ does not matter right now
[13:36] <GPenguin> but its sad nevertheless.
[13:39] <GPenguin> does nalioth have a new nick?
[13:39] <GPenguin> i cant see him but i feel his presence
[13:39] <GPenguin> and popey is also always good for a slam in my face
[13:40] <GPenguin> Mon Oct  6 15:40:21 CEST 2014
[13:40] <popey> Excuse me?
[13:42] <GPenguin> i am looking at the user list and try to figure out how many people would vote against me _by default_ because of years old sentiments
[20:53] <ninnnu> Um.  He left mid-conversation :)
[21:36] <genii> I'll check my command aliases a bit later, it should have had the kick in there but maybe not


[00:11] <allex> hi
[01:51] <KITM> hi
[01:51] <KITM> Will Lubuntu 20.04 be released tomorrow too ?
[01:52] <housecat> yep
[01:56] <KITM> housecat Thank you :)
[02:54] <Chief_D> hello
[02:57] <KITM> Hello
[02:59] <guiverc> G'day, if you have a Lubuntu Support question, please just ask it (and try and keep to a single line, be patient waiting responses, people will answer when they can)
 (Photo, 960x1280) https://i.imgur.com/4OJmWkk.jpg Why do i need all these options and wich should I chose?
[08:22] <kiwitrader> Choice is a wonderful thing unless its confusing @lubot.  I'd just pick Lubuntu unless you have a special reason for something else.
[09:21] <lubuntu-qa> .
[11:31] <Guest_51> hi guys
[11:31] <kc2bez> o/
[11:32] <Guest_51> i have a problem on my OS lubunt
[11:32] <Guest_51> u
[11:32] <Guest_51> audio doesn't work
[11:32] <Guest_51> i wrote on terminal cat/proc/asound/cards
[11:32] <kc2bez> Which version of Lubuntu?
[11:33] <Guest_51> 0 [Audio          ]: HdmiLpeAudio - Intel HDMI/DP LPE Audio                       Intel HDMI/DP LPE Audio  1 [bytchtcx2072x  ]: bytcht-cx2072x - bytcht-cx2072x                       ASUSTeKCOMPUTERINC.-E200HA-1.0-E200HA
[11:33] <kc2bez> !paste | Guest_51
[11:33] <Guest_51> mmmh i don t remember the version
[11:34] <kc2bez> Open a terminal and type `lsb_release -a`
[11:34] <Guest_51> ok
[11:35] <Guest_51> 19.10
[11:36] <kc2bez> The best I can tell from your pasted text it looks like your audio is either a displayport or HDMI monitor.
[11:42] <Guest_51> how can i solve this problem?
[11:44] <Guest_51> i have no display port or HDMI monitor
[11:46] <kc2bez> Please paste the output of  lspci | grep "Audio"
[11:51] <Guest_51> it doesn t show any output =(
[17:38] <M--uismojvkinbis> Is this a new chat or is history blocked?
[17:38] <wxl> neither seems to be applicable
[17:39] <dax> M--uismojvkinbis: history on portaled matrix <-> IRC rooms is limited to "since you joined the room"
[17:39] <dax> !logs
[17:39] <wxl> ah didn't notice the matrix connection. right right
[17:42] <M--uismojvkinbis> Oh okay. Well, let's see if I can get any help. When I tried to install 19.10, I was unable to setup raid through the default installer. I tried using mdadm which allowed me to setup up the array probably but when I wanted to install Lubuntu, it did not detect this as a partition. Perhaps, I'm not doing this in the right order, but is raid supported at all? What I ended up doing was using Ubuntu server and
[17:42] <M--uismojvkinbis> installing the lubuntu desktop on top of it, but I would like to do it properly. Any guidance?
[17:43] <M--uismojvkinbis> properly*
[17:47] <wxl> M--uismojvkinbis: looks like it's still a current issue the installer is working to solve https://github.com/calamares/calamares/issues/987
[17:55] <M--uismojvkinbis> I beleieve I even tried using a different installer but even that did not work. I see someone wrote a work around but it's probably too involved for me.
[17:55] <M--uismojvkinbis> I think since I'm technically using fakeRaid, that is the issue
[17:57] <M--uismojvkinbis> https://github.com/calamares/calamares/issues/987#issuecomment-486801679
[18:04] <M--uismojvkinbis> Is there a more practical solution to doing FDE of LVM over RAID?
 We don't use LVM for FDE
[18:07] <CrazyTux> How much RAM and CPU does Lubuntu 20.04 use?
 Lubuntu can use all CPU cores and the whole RAM
 Or are you asking for the minimum requirements?
[18:19] <M--uismojvkinbis> There was an article I read a while back that showed how much ram it used compared to xfce and the other popular DEs but idk where I would find it now. Just do a generic search engine search. Spoiler alert, it's less than the rest
[18:20] <CrazyTux> No.  Lubuntu is supposed to be a lightweight distro. I just wanted to know how much resources does Lubuntu 20.04 use.
[18:21] <CrazyTux> I need a lightweight, stable, bugfree, user friendly distro.
[18:21] <wxl> lightweight, stable, user friendly: that's lubuntu. go install it
[18:22] <M--uismojvkinbis> exactly lol
[18:22] <wxl> bugfree: that's like asking for immortality. doesn't exist. we work hard to limit them, though.
[18:25] <CrazyTux> how much RAM and CPU does Lubuntu 20.04 use?
[18:31] <wxl> less than anything else
[18:32] <wxl> i've run it on as little as 256m but that's a terrible state to be in with regards to the modern web. that's not lubuntu's fault, but the web's fault. like if you want to use gmail in a browser, you need to ask google for system requirements, because theirs are much higher than ours
[18:33] <CrazyTux> ok
[19:01] <rjCousineau> Hello,
[19:02] <kc2bez> o/
 @rjCousineau [<rjCousineau> Hello,], Namaste!
[19:04] <rjCousineau> Hello, I'm trying to install Lubuntu 18.04.4 LTS from USB and after install, i get a boot loop.   When installing through a gui, under Installation type, I choose 'Erase disk and install Lubuntu'.  I might have confused my partitions?  I'm not sure how it works
[19:05] <wxl> rjCousineau: 20.04 just came out. install that instead.
[19:22] <M--uismojvkinbis> create a new partition table and try again
[19:22] <M--uismojvkinbis> I would say but yeah 20.04
[19:23] <rjCousineau> No worries, i'm trying 20.04 now
[19:24] <M--uismojvkinbis> Can't wait to spin it up. I'm just not sure I want to abandon my current setup
 Use the live USB for sometime. See if it suits you. :)
[19:41] <rjCousineau> In 20.04, selection 'Install Lubuntu' - on step: Partitions, i select the storage device, but NEXT is disabled.   Under manual partitioning, if I delete the ext4 it become unallocated. When i create a partition with default settings, it becomes 'New Partition' with ext4.   Except, the NEXT button is still disabled. hmm
[19:42] <M--uismojvkinbis> hmm I haven't tried it out and it's been a while to remember what the install process it like
[19:43] <M--uismojvkinbis> Try checking out the manual
[19:43] <M--uismojvkinbis> https://manual.lubuntu.me/stable/
[19:43] <M--uismojvkinbis> if you can't get it, let me know. I could try it out real quick
[19:43] <rjCousineau> ok thx.
[19:44] <wxl> you probably have something automounted
[19:44] <wxl> most likely swaps
[19:44] <wxl> that's in the manual
[19:59] <rjCousineau> I don't see the 'Erase Disk' option.  I've ran 'sudo swapoff -a'
[20:03] <wxl> do you have anything else mounted?
[20:04] <rjCousineau> I was able to manually create the partition and get past that step.. thanks
[20:25] <rjCousineau> Thanks for your support, it seems to be booting now
[20:26] <rjCousineau> Does anyone know if Lubuntu 20.04 needs tlp tlp-rdw (for thermal CPU throttling?)
[22:04] <hutch> Hi I know devs will be busy. Congratulations on the 20.04 relese. Just a quikie
[22:05] <hutch> Lubuntu doesn't have an info page as such showing version and mem, cpu etc. How do I check that beta has upgraded to final?
[22:13] <dax> ubottu: final
[22:13] <dax> just do updates as normal
[22:17] <hutch> ok thanks both