[02:01] <mpo> can someone help me with some live cd questions?
[02:02] <mpo> I am curious why the live dvd is only 486 mb
[02:09] <mpo> is there a time that this channel is more active?
[02:10] <bimberi> mpo: yes
[02:10] <bimberi> mpo: where are you seeing that size for the dvd image?
[02:11] <pygi> ogra, poke
[02:11] <mpo> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/current/
[02:12] <pygi> or is it ogra_ ? :P
[02:12] <bimberi> mpo: the .iso files are "4.4G"
[02:12] <mpo> feisty-dvd-i386.iso          21-Mar-2007 13:03  4.4G  Install/live DVD for PC (Intel x86) computers (standard download)
[02:13] <mpo> i chose this from the list but when the download prompts it show as 439 mb
[02:13] <mpo> iso
[02:13] <bimberi> mpo: ah, let me try
[02:15] <bimberi> hm, shows as 4535.1MB here (in the Firefox download window)
[02:16] <mpo> hmmm
[02:16] <mpo> you are right
[02:17] <mpo> had firefox on another pc this only has explorer
[02:18] <bimberi> yep, looks about the right size.  Too much for my dialup connection :)
[02:19] <mpo> hmmm firefox does not seem to let me download to a mapped drive though
[02:20] <mpo> always want to save to my desktop
[02:21] <bimberi> right-click -> save as...   should let you navigate elsewhere
[02:21] <mpo> bimberi: only lets me save the link
[02:22] <mpo> anyway I can figure that out...do you know if the live CD has the manuals included?  ..not the dvd
[02:22] <bimberi> *save link as*  ?
[02:23] <bimberi> mpo: there is documentation and most packages include manpages
[02:24] <mpo> hmmm the kTurtle programming program errored out when try to access it from the help ....do I have to just browse to a directory to read them instead?
[02:25] <bimberi> mpo: unfortunately that I don't know about sorry.  Hopefully someone else...
[02:28] <mpo> if I want the live cd or dvd to have flash...java...so that it can browse the web do I have to install to a hdd and then re-image it after I install them
[02:31] <bimberi> you can install packages while running the LiveCD.
[02:31] <bimberi> (temporary to the session of course)
[02:32] <mpo> but how can I do it permanetly for the cd ... the reason I ask is because java...mp3..and what have you have a max distribution limit ans that is why they are not included in the OS
[02:33] <mpo> at least thats why I think
[02:33] <bimberi> !uck
[02:33] <ubotu> UCK is a tool that helps you customise official Ubuntu Live CDs (including Kubuntu/Xubuntu and Edubuntu) to your needs. See http://uck.sourceforge.net/
[02:35] <calimer> I was just wondering, why are the system requirements for edubuntu so high?
[02:35] <calimer> I want to install it on a 450 mhz computer with 64 mb of ram
[02:36] <bimberi> calimer: that would be OK as a thin-client connected to an Edubuntu LTSP server.  As a standalone it will need more RAM.  128MB at least (and will probably still be quite slow)
[02:37] <calimer> I'm not familiar to the concept of a thin-client
[02:38] <calimer> that is interesting that it would need more to be standalone
[02:38] <calimer> I don't need to connect it to the net or anything, I just want to have educational stuff on the computers for the kids
[02:39] <calimer> i supposed I could just grab the individual programs
[02:39] <calimer> ubuntu in general seems to have somewhat high system requirements
[02:39] <calimer> even for the xfce type
[02:39] <calimer> I was running mandrake with xfce on my 350 mhz with no problem
[02:40] <bimberi> you could try Xubuntu then ...
[02:40] <bimberi> !xubuntu
[02:40] <ubotu> xubuntu is Ubuntu with Xfce instead of Gnome. For more info, see http://www.xubuntu.org and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/ - To install from Ubuntu: "sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop". | For support, see #xubuntu | See also: !ubuntu and !xubuntu-channels
[02:40] <bimberi> or even ...
[02:40] <bimberi> !fluxbuntu
[02:40] <ubotu> fluxbuntu is a LPAE-standard compliant, Ubuntu-based derivative that maintains the goal of running on a wide range of mobile devices and computers (low-end & high-end). It is lightweight, swift and efficient. | Support Channel: #fluxbuntu on freenode | Homepage: http://fluxbuntu.org/
[02:41] <calimer> even for that install I think it wanted 256 ram
[02:41] <calimer> oh 128
[02:41] <bimberi> yes, for the LiveCD installer.  There is a text based "alternate" installer which is much less hungry ...
[02:42] <bimberi> !alternate
[02:42] <ubotu> The Alternate CD (available as of Dapper) is the classical text-mode installation CD. Use it if you wish to upgrade via CD, or for an "expert" mode install. For normal installs, use the Desktop CD, which is also a "Live" CD.
[02:42] <calimer> thank you for your help, I'm excited to help teach the kids about linux
[02:43] <calimer> right now the computers are running windows 98 first edition and can't even install a driver for my thumb drive
[02:43] <bimberi> you're welcome :)
[02:43] <bimberi> I've found this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_client
[02:43] <calimer> are you a developer for edubuntu?
[02:44] <bimberi> No. Just someone who likes to help out.
[02:44] <calimer> ah because I want to suggest some software for it
[02:46] <bimberi> I'd suggest posting to the edubuntu-devel mailing list
[02:47] <bimberi> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel
[02:47] <calimer> good idea, sounds great
[02:48] <calimer> I think I want to make a sandbox game for kids
[02:48] <calimer> where they can design their own 3D worlds and interact in them
[02:49] <bimberi> something like Kahootz?
[02:49] <bimberi> (which is proprietary software btw)
[02:50] <calimer> not sure but I'm going to check it out
[02:50] <calimer> mine would be free
[02:50] <bimberi> calimer: hence that sounds fantastic!
[02:50] <calimer> kahootz looks like good inspiration
[02:51] <bimberi> I only know about Kahootz through helping classes at my sons' school with it
[02:51] <calimer> I want to make something that helps kids make their own stories too
[02:51] <calimer> though that is a bit tougher
[02:52] <calimer> for me I run a before and afterschool at an elementary school for grades k-5
[02:52] <calimer> and I salvaged those two computers that they were throwing away at my admin building
[02:52] <calimer> I have tuxpaint and childsplay on them for the kids and they love it
[02:53] <bimberi> cool :)
[02:53] <calimer> yeah it's awesome
[02:53] <calimer> but I want to show them how to make games and level design
[02:53] <calimer> and I can't really show them my past work which is at http://lms.d3files.com a little inappropriate for them
[02:54] <bimberi> er, yes :)
[02:55] <calimer> thanks for the kahootz link
[02:55] <calimer> this software looks very interesting
[02:55] <calimer> I'm going to see about ordering the demo
[02:56] <bimberi> it's very good.  I'd love to see a Free Software equivalent.
[02:57] <calimer> well the in game level designing part will come quickly
[02:57] <calimer> but these extra features will take longer
[02:57] <calimer> I know one thing I have already made with some friends is a huge slide
[02:57] <calimer> and then a jump pad that shot us back up to the top
[02:58] <calimer> have you ever heard of alice?
[03:00] <bimberi> no
[03:00] <calimer> http://www.alice.org/
[03:00] <calimer> not sure how similar it is to kahootz but seems quite similar
[03:00] <calimer> might be the free equivalent
[03:02] <bimberi> looks very interesting - thanks!
[03:03] <calimer> I made a small movie with it, it seemed pretty cool
[03:03] <calimer> I'm interested to know how it compares to kahootz if you check it out
[03:06] <calimer> I need to get to bed, up early for the morning program.  Take care and thank you for your help :)
[03:06] <bimberi> You're welcome.  Good luck.
[03:11] <sbalneav> Evening all
[03:23] <LaserJock> hi sbalneav
[03:24] <sbalneav> Hey LaserJock
[03:25] <sbalneav> I sent off an updated manual to ogra to look over
[03:25] <sbalneav> Got some time right now?
[03:25] <LaserJock> some yeah
[03:25] <LaserJock> what's up?
[03:26] <sbalneav> Hold on, lemme dcc you the updated manual
[03:28] <sbalneav> dccccccc
[03:28] <sbalneav> See it?
[03:30] <LaserJock> well, kinda
[03:30] <LaserJock> I can't tell how to get it
[03:30] <LaserJock> I'm in irssi
[03:30] <sbalneav> ah, ok.
[03:30] <sbalneav> ummm
[03:31] <sbalneav> hm
[03:31] <LaserJock> wahoo, recieving
[03:32] <sbalneav> I closed it, try again
[03:34] <LaserJock> got it
[03:35] <sbalneav> coolio
[03:37] <LaserJock> so these have all your changes?
[03:37] <sbalneav> yeah, so far
[03:37] <sbalneav> When's our deadline?
[03:38] <LaserJock> well
[03:38] <LaserJock> ASAP
[03:38] <LaserJock> we're already past the doc team's string freeze
[03:39] <LaserJock> and we're at Beta Freeze
[03:39] <sbalneav> Well, if it went on the disk now, it's at least accurate.
[03:40] <sbalneav> and much more complete than before
[03:41] <LaserJock> yeah
[03:42] <sbalneav> The naming's been reoganized
[03:42] <LaserJock> what we need is to get stuff for the translators to work on
[03:42] <LaserJock> if we have some minor changes here and there it's fine
[04:00] <sbalneav> Well, it's ltsp5 accrurate now, and the boot process is explained.
[04:00] <sbalneav> The manual's about tripled in size since we started, between my ltsp stuff and cbx33's SCP section
[04:00] <sbalneav> but he needs to pat ch that up quick for the rename to TCM
[04:00] <LaserJock> ah
[04:00] <LaserJock> sbalneav: ok, well I need to take a quick shower
[04:00] <LaserJock> sbalneav: then I'll get these changes into the svn repo
[04:00] <sbalneav> edubuntugirl: LaserJock++
[04:00] <sbalneav> edubuntugirl: LaserJock
[04:00] <edubuntugirl> LaserJock is Jordan Mantha
[04:16] <LaserJock> at least she knows who I am
[04:21] <Burgundavia> hmm, no cbx33 yet
[04:21] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: she?
[04:23] <bimberi> calimer: Lots of similarities between Alice and Kahootz.  The latter is not really focussed on teaching programming, just animation/content-creation. Hence it works well for early ages (the class I helped out with was Year 1 (5/6 year olds))
[04:24] <bimberi> edubuntugirl: Burgundavia
[04:24] <edubuntugirl> bimberi: I'm not following you...
[04:24] <Burgundavia> ahh
[04:24] <bimberi> edubuntugirl: LaserJock
[04:24] <edubuntugirl> LaserJock is Jordan Mantha
[04:24] <Burgundavia> edubuntugirl: Burgundavia
[04:24] <edubuntugirl> Burgundavia: *blink*
[04:24] <Burgundavia> hope
[04:24] <Burgundavia> nope, rather
[04:24] <Burgundavia> edubuntugirl: Burgwork
[04:24] <edubuntugirl> Burgundavia: what?
[04:24] <crimsun> Alice really doesn't work all that well
[04:24] <bimberi> Burgundavia: so _she_ doesn't know who you are :)
[04:25] <Burgundavia> hmm
[04:25] <Burgundavia> a frequent problem i have with women :)
[04:25] <crimsun> people still get caught up in the ideas of dragging and dropping instead of the problem solving aspects that Alice attempts to present
[04:26] <bimberi> crimsun: hmmk
[04:27] <bimberi> crimsun: At first site I'm reminded of Squeak
[04:27] <crimsun> squeak is nice
[04:27] <crimsun> we use ultimate++
[04:28] <crimsun> some of the first-semester students do 3 weeks of Alice then move on to ultimate++
[04:28] <crimsun> we evaluated Alice for 2 years
[04:31] <LaserJock> argg, that reminds me
[04:32] <LaserJock> I need to repackage squeak
[04:32] <Burgundavia> have they solved the issue?
[04:33] <LaserJock> which one?
[04:33] <Burgundavia> the squeak licensing issue
[04:34] <bimberi> argh - s/site/sight/
[04:34] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: no, I don't think that'll ever resolved
[04:35] <Burgundavia> ahh
[04:36] <Burgundavia> isn't it just a font issue?
[04:39] <Amaranth> edubuntugirl: Amaranth
[04:39] <edubuntugirl> Amaranth: *blink*
[04:39] <Amaranth> aww
[04:41] <bimberi> edubuntugirl: sabdfl
[04:41] <edubuntugirl> sabdfl is Mark Shuttleworth
[04:45] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: I'm not exactly sure, but I think it has to do with it's Apple heritage
[04:45] <Burgundavia> I believe so as well, but I am uncertain as to what parts are apsl2
[04:47] <LaserJock> me neither
[04:48] <LaserJock> but I think it'll always be in Multiverse
[06:23] <Lameiro> hi. I am planning to submit a SoC proposal for Coon, but I don't see any names for mentors in Ubuntu pages. All I see are 2 names in the Ubuntu Feature Specification website. they are "encompass" and "Pete Savage". do you know if they are planning to mentor that?
[06:23] <Lameiro> or somebody else
[06:26] <LaserJock> well, I don't think the mentor list is finalized at all
[06:26] <LaserJock> Lameiro: what do you need?
[06:35] <LaserJock> Lameiro: wb
[06:37] <Lameiro> LaserJock: thank you. well, last msg i got was "well, I don't think the mentor list is finalized at all". did you say anybody else? damned isp, i am sorry
[06:37] <Lameiro> *anything
[06:37] <LaserJock> I just said:
[06:37] <LaserJock> Lameiro: what do you need?
[06:37] <Lameiro> a mentor name to put in the soc proposal
[06:38] <LaserJock> I don't think you need one yet
[06:38] <LaserJock> I don't know all the details of the SoC stuff
[06:38] <Lameiro> well. ok. i thought i did... thank you
[06:38] <LaserJock> but I'm pretty sure we don't even have a final list of mentors
[07:17] <ajmitch> LaserJock: going to apply?
[07:18] <LaserJock> for what?
[07:18] <LaserJock> oh, I did apply for SoC mentorship
[07:19] <LaserJock> but my application is "pending" so I need to poke Keybuk or doko
[07:21] <ajmitch> ok
[07:21] <LaserJock> well
[07:21] <LaserJock> we'll see if we even need it
[07:21] <ajmitch> though it'd just be your usual ubuntu time anyway :)
[07:22] <LaserJock> it actually would have been more fun/profitable to actually do a project
[07:22] <LaserJock> but I really don't have time for that
[07:22] <ajmitch> yep
[07:30] <LaserJock> hi cbx33
[07:30] <cbx33> hey Lameiro
[07:30] <cbx33> hmmm
[07:30] <cbx33> hey LaserJock
[07:31] <LaserJock> cbx33: I'm guessing you have some SoC email in you inbox ;-)
[07:32] <cbx33> not this morning actually
[07:32] <cbx33> but most days yes
[07:32] <cbx33> ;)
[07:32] <Lameiro> LaserJock: i didnt send it off.
[07:32] <Lameiro> cbx33: I see. do that is gonna be a hard one... eheh
[07:33] <cbx33> ???
[07:33] <Lameiro> i am sending you one in a few hours...
[07:33] <Lameiro> cbx33: i am applying for the Coon SoC project.
[07:33] <Burgundavia> coon?
[07:34] <cbx33> ahhh
[07:34] <highvoltage> gooooood morning!
[07:34] <Burgundavia> cbx33: had somebody by asking about the web front end to tcm
[07:34] <LaserJock> hi highvoltage
[07:34] <Burgundavia> hey highvoltage
[07:34] <cbx33> awesome
[07:34] <cbx33> yes someone mailed me about that too
[07:34] <highvoltage> hey LaserJock, Burgundavia and cbx33
[07:35] <cbx33> hey highvoltage
[07:35] <cbx33> hi Burgundavia
[07:35] <Lameiro> cbx33: can I assign you as the mentor for the SoC proposal?
[07:35] <cbx33> did you get a chance to scan that chapter yet Burgundavia ?
[07:36] <cbx33> Lameiro, well i suppose ;)
[07:36] <cbx33> I am looking to mentor that project
[07:36] <Burgundavia> nope
[07:36] <cbx33> if it gets approved
[07:36] <cbx33> hehehe
[07:36] <cbx33> too busy playing Wesnoth eh?
[07:36] <LaserJock> cbx33: he does have a life you know ;-)
[07:36] <cbx33> Oh.....
[07:36] <cbx33> sorry Burgundavia I thought you were like LaserJock and Me :p
[07:36] <cbx33> ha ha !!
[07:37] <Burgundavia> I even have a gf
[07:37] <cbx33> what a 3-dimensional...real girlfriend?
[07:37] <Burgundavia> today I sorted out the ubuntu sticker offer thingy
[07:37] <Burgundavia> which has languished for 6 months
[07:37] <Burgundavia> unlike you married bozos, I actually need to work to keep mine
[07:37] <LaserJock> hah
[07:37] <cbx33> hehe
[07:37] <LaserJock> yes, marriage is no work at all
[07:38] <cbx33> and she's into ubuntu sticker offers?
[07:38] <LaserJock> lol
[07:38] <cbx33> LaserJock, careful or I'll tell your good lady you said that ;)
[07:38] <Burgundavia> no, she was helping me with them
[07:38] <Burgundavia> and then we cleaned house
[07:38] <cbx33> ahh good old house cleaning
[07:38] <cbx33> *bah* i suck at that
[07:38] <Burgundavia> so do I
[07:38] <ajmitch> hey cbx33
[07:38] <cbx33> I always get told off
[07:38] <cbx33> hi ajmitch
[07:38] <Burgundavia> however, I am very good at cleaning other peoples houses
[07:38] <Burgundavia> hey ajmitch
[07:38] <Burgundavia> Lameiro_: what did you mean by "coon"?
[07:39] <cbx33> Burgundavia, it's the name Jason gave to his project proposal
[07:39] <Burgundavia> ahh
[07:39] <Burgundavia> what is the project
[07:39] <cbx33> I was unaware of it's true meaning
[07:39] <Burgundavia> ?
[07:39] <cbx33> it's the gradebook idea
[07:39] <Burgundavia> coon in North America can mean "racoon"
[07:39] <Burgundavia> hence
[07:39] <Burgundavia> 'coon hunting
[07:39] <cbx33> for teachers to record students grades
[07:39] <Burgundavia> doesn't schooltool do that?
[07:39] <Burgundavia> ie: we don't need it
[07:40] <cbx33> well......school tool are doing some pilot on it
[07:40] <cbx33> but it's way off being finished
[07:40] <cbx33> but yes you're right
[07:40] <ajmitch> hello corey, what's up?
[07:41] <Burgundavia> not much
[07:41] <Burgundavia> about to head to bed
[07:41] <Burgundavia> so this is just a basic program?
[07:41] <cbx33> Unread -> Delete
[07:41] <ajmitch> haha
[07:41] <cbx33> it's genius
[07:42] <Burgundavia> wow
[07:42] <ajmitch> a pity I can't do that with ubuntu mail
[07:43] <ajmitch> people wouldn't like it if I deleted motu stuff from my inbox
[07:43] <ajmitch> ---Mutt: =launchpad [Msgs:292583 New:219736 Flag:1 Post:6 Inc:21 1539M] ---(threads/date)
[07:43] <ajmitch> 1.5GB of bugs
[07:43] <cbx33> heheh
[07:45] <Lameiro> cbx33: but, on the proposal it is suggested to use a mysql database. wouldnt it be more adequate to use a sqlite? (avoid deps)
[07:45] <cbx33> suggest that then ;)
[07:47] <Burgundavia> I would also build it in such a way that it could become a client to schooltool when that evolves
[07:47] <ajmitch> Lameiro: proposals are often put up by random community members
[07:47] <cbx33> yes
[07:48] <cbx33> see ya ajmitch
[07:49] <Burgundavia> night all
[07:58] <cbx33> nn Burgundavia
[08:00] <highvoltage> night Burgs
[11:33] <michpol> hi all. i've try to install edubuntu 6.06.1 over network. all seems ok during installation (i've select generic install by pressing <enter> at 'boot:'), but when after all i  restart PC for first time, edubuntu load in console mode only - no gdm installed. why? somebody try do so?
[01:09] <kigurai> Hi again
[01:10] <sayan_> o/
[01:41] <rockprincess> moin!
[01:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi rockprincess :)
[01:44] <rockprincess> heeey Kamping_Kaiser! Whats up? How are ya doing? :D
[01:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, i'm going busy, yourself? i'm jsut rearanging my work room (got a new desk, have to pull out about 10 old world macs to fit it in)
[01:48] <rockprincess> kamping_kaiser: i'm just about to put my book presentation together which is due tomorrow, and in about an hour i'll be leaving for school.....but good news is that i just got a notice from my assistant professor at uni that my dvds and case studies on educational foss have arrived :D
[01:50] <rockprincess> will pick them up tomorrow :D
[01:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, awsome stuff :D
[01:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, i 'quit' doing ubuntu-edu and edubuntu stuff a month ago to go overseas - still havent gone :|
[01:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> been busy as heck anyway though
[01:51] <rockprincess> Kamping_Kaiser: overseas as going to the usa? will you pick up your (ed)ubuntu stuff once you've settled down?
[01:52] <Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, no, going doing a network deployment in papua new guinea. 3 weeks there, 2 months getting ready :|
[01:53] <rockprincess> Kamping_Kaiser: wow, that sounds exciting! you
[01:53] <rockprincess> Kamping_Kaiser: you'll be missed here for sure ;)
[01:53] <Kamping_Kaiser> it is exciting/scary. i was meant to be getting back about now, i wont be going for another month!
[01:53] <Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, awww :)
[01:55] <rockprincess> has it been put back due to organizational matter?!
[01:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> theres 5 organisations involved in getting it going, including a multinational - you imagine for yourself! :)
[01:56] <rockprincess> wow, sounds like a big deal, huh?! :D
[01:56] <rockprincess> what will be your tasks there?
[01:57] <Kamping_Kaiser> get as far as i can through the todo list, including deploy 130 desktops, 20 laptops, do desktop training (10-20 hours)  on as many as posible, and server training (sigh hours) for 3 people
[01:57] <Kamping_Kaiser> training desktop from the ground up is bad. training *the server admins* from scratch is going to be, shall we say, insane
[02:01] <rockprincess> ohhh no ;) sounds like a challenge plus it's for a good cause, isn't it?! ;)
[02:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> i consider setting up foss in a hospital a good cause :)
[02:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> its a challenge, but its on PNG time (ie 'it happens when it happens') , which wont help the todo list :|
[02:02] <rockprincess> speaking of insane...my computer is insane, my computer clock goes fast-forward....it displays 14:36 whereas my watch says 14:00 ...
[02:02] <rockprincess> hehe, never heard of PNG time ;)
[02:03] <rockprincess> ntpdate?
[02:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> ntpdate ntp.adelaide.edu.au (ntpdate sets the time according to an ntp server)
[02:04] <rockprincess> does it have a gui? i once tried "chrony" which is a similar command line tool.....
[02:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> no, its cli
[02:08] <Kamping_Kaiser> night rockprincess
[02:08] <rockprincess> good night Kamping_Kaiser! Good Luck for your project!
[02:08] <rockprincess> :)
[02:09] <Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, thanks, i'm sure i'll be in again before i go :)
[02:09] <rockprincess> cool :)
[03:07] <sbalneav> Monring all!
[03:07] <sbalneav> Hey ogra!  How's it going?  Refreshed my ISO last night, and did a re-install, and the chroot build was OK
[03:08] <sbalneav> ogra++
[03:09] <highvoltage> morning sbalneav!
[03:10] <bddebian> Heya folks
[03:10] <cliebow_> ok on ppc as well
[03:11] <highvoltage> hey bddebian
[03:12] <bddebian> Hi highvoltage
[03:14] <sbalneav> Hey highvoltage!
[03:14] <sbalneav> So, I wonder what linux persona I am
[03:15] <highvoltage> sbalneav: I see the site is back up :
[03:15] <highvoltage> sbalneav: I think you're the afficionado guy
[03:35] <sbalneav> Yeah, but the afficiondo guy only has 50% linux usage.
[03:35] <sbalneav> I'm 100% :)
[03:35] <ogra> sbalneav, yeah, beta looks good so far
[03:35] <sbalneav> ogra!!
[03:35] <sbalneav> I only have 1 minor problem, and I think I have a clue as to what it may be.
[03:35] <sbalneav> It didn't set up the network interface.
[03:35] <sbalneav> Now, on this box I have two interfaces
[03:35] <sbalneav> eth0's a GOOD card, intel EE pro 100
[03:35] <sbalneav> eth1's the crappy onboard VIA ethernet interface
[03:35] <ogra> that shouldnt matter at all
[03:35] <sbalneav> I use eth1 as the "primary"
[03:35] <ogra> as dhcp client ?
[03:35] <ogra> or static ?
[03:35] <sbalneav> yes
[03:35] <sbalneav> Should I statically define eth1?
[03:35] <sbalneav> I was wondering if maybe the detection code was assuming eth0 was "primary" and looking for eth1 to be the unused one.
[03:36] <sbalneav> Where, on the install cd, would I find the scripts that do that bit?  Or is that in the initramfs on the cd's kernel?
[03:40] <cbx33> hey ogra, sbalneav
[03:40] <ogra> do you get a message during install about the interface ?
[03:40] <cbx33> seen linuxMCE?
[03:40] <cbx33> that looks so cool
[03:40] <cbx33> and based on ubuntu too
[03:40] <ogra> or does it just not work after install ?
[03:45] <ogra> sbalneav, the script is in the ltsp source. it's the postinst of ltsp-client-builder
[03:47] <highvoltage> cbx33: wow, linuxmce looks cool
[03:48] <cbx33> i know
[03:48] <cbx33> sucks that the bandwidth has gone
[03:48] <cbx33> I wanted to install that tonight
[03:49] <cbx33> highvoltage: quite a small project by the looks of it too
[03:49] <cbx33> just one guy working on it
[03:50] <cliebow_> cbx33: i see an import for ltcm..but it doesnt seem available
[03:50] <cliebow_> in scp
[03:52] <sbalneav> ogra: No, didn't get a message about the interface
[03:52] <ogra> aha
[03:53] <ogra> can you check if the interface is up and running *before* you log in on the server ?
[03:54] <ogra> seems we have a little problem with network manager hogging *all* interfaces
[03:54] <cliebow_> network mangler..
[03:54] <sbalneav> Before I log in?  That would be after install, right?
[03:54] <sbalneav> So, it doesn't configure that interface on install?
[03:55] <sbalneav> I'm using the server install cd, not the desktop cd, just to be clear
[03:55] <ogra> it configures that interface on install
[03:55] <ogra> it adds it to /etc/network/interfaces
[03:55] <sbalneav> On mine, it didn't
[03:56] <sbalneav> does network manager run on the server install cd? I didn't check
[03:56] <ogra> and you didnt get any message from the installer about that ?
[03:56] <sbalneav> No
[03:56] <sbalneav> nada
[03:56] <sbalneav> Nicht
[03:56] <sbalneav> nein
[03:56] <ogra> is your dhcp range something with 192.168.0 ?
[03:56] <ogra> for the outbound interface i mean
[03:57] <sbalneav> hehehe no!  I deliberately changed my entire home network to 10.0.0.x to rule that out.
[03:57] <sbalneav> :)
[03:57] <sbalneav> I ain't half so dumb as I look :)
[03:57] <ogra> do you get both interfaces offered at the beginning ?
[03:57] <ogra> and have to select one ?
[03:57] <sbalneav> Yeah, got both at the beginning, and chose eth1
[03:58] <ogra> hmm
[03:58] <sbalneav> so eth0's the un-configured one.
[03:58] <sbalneav> now, here's a question:
[03:58] <maccam94> hi, i'm on my town's technology comittee, and one of the things we're deciding on is what operating system the school's computers should use for the next few years. we have 700 computers (P4 2Ghz, 256mb ram, hard disks) on an ethernet network, and one of the options I am considering presenting is a thick client ubuntu setup (OS/Apps on the clients, user data and configuration files on a network share). anyone know what sort of tools/settings would be
[03:58] <maccam94> needed?
[03:59] <sbalneav> is there a way to do an iftab thingy on install, to switch 'em around?  I'm wondering if it wants the active interface to be eth0 and the empty interface to be eth1
[03:59] <ogra> it doesnt
[03:59] <ogra> see the code
[04:00] <sbalneav> I'll lookie.
[04:00] <cliebow_> maccam94, your machines should run just fine..what tools would you want?
[04:02] <maccam94> cliebow, i'm looking for what applications I can propose using to manage deployment, updates, and users, what sort of configuration needs to be done to get a networked /home directory, and how to be able to push changes to .conf files in /etc to all machines easily
[04:03] <sbalneav> maccam94: ubuntu boxes are easy to update with the APT package system.  Users can all be handled through LDAP authentication (it's what we do), and networked home dirs are easy-peasy in any Linux.
[04:04] <sbalneav> As for syncing config files, there's literally dozens to admin tools available, but simple's sometimes the best.  A quick bit of rsync will keep your boxes up to date config file wise.
[04:04] <maccam94> sbalneav, are there any good GUI interfaces for setting up and managing LDAP, and do you know of any good howtos on creating a LDAP setup?
[04:05] <sbalneav> There's a web based ldap manger for Linux out there, but I tend to use a gui app called gq.  It's basic, but it allows for full control over the ldap database.
[04:06] <sbalneav> The real power of Linux, however, is in scripting.  Rather than sit and plunk through 1500 ldap updates one-at-a-time in a gui, with a quick bit of python programming, you can automate most tasks from jobs that will take hours, to literally seconds.
[04:11] <Pitze> Hi! I'm currently installing edubuntu on my laptop.. Is anyone willing to help me with the partitioning? I'm not sure how to do it.
[04:11] <sbalneav> Pitze: are you getting rid of windows?
[04:11] <maccam94> Yeah, the scripting was one of the things that I think will make doing individual user authentication easier on the admin. (instead of manually creating 1500 users, just plunk a script down to translate a class listing).  the question is whether he'll learn the language...
[04:11] <maccam94> anyhow
[04:11] <Pitze> sbalneav:  nope, I have gentoo on it, but want to install edubuntu on one of my partitions
[04:11] <Pitze> sbalneav: I have 4 partitions, one ext2 boot, one swap and 2 ext3.. where I have gentoo on sda3 and want to have ubuntu on sda4
[04:11] <sbalneav> Ah, multi partition.  Well, you should just be able to select the partition you want on the install.
[04:11] <Pitze> well how do I tell the installation to do it there.. I have some important stuff on the other partition :P I'll just format that part and not format the rest?
[04:12] <maccam94> how much of a load on the network do you think LDAP would create?
[04:13] <sbalneav> Pitze: I'd say so, usually it gives you that option.    LDAP doesn't generate that much
[04:14] <Pitze> it's not worth money, but time :P
[04:14] <sbalneav> Pitze: So, what you're saying is, you're time's worth nothing, right?
[04:14] <sbalneav> :)
[04:14] <Pitze> haha :P
[04:15] <sbalneav> s/things/thinks
[04:15] <Pitze> but I guess if it says "no, keep existing data" it should be saved :P
[04:15] <maccam94> ok, are there any downsides of LDAP that anyone can think of? i'm trying to figure out what the other people in the comittee would want to know...
[04:15] <sbalneav> maccam94: As well, you can run a slave ldap server on each machine, which will keep almost all ldap traffic off the network.
[04:16] <sbalneav> The only downside to ldap is that it's sometimes a bit of a bear to set up.  Once you've got it going, though, it works fine.
[04:16] <sbalneav> And, you can always come here for help.  Several of us, myself included, use LDAP for auth.
[04:18] <pips1> just a quick ping to say that I tried installing the daily 2007-03-20 and failed at the partitioning stage
[04:19] <Pitze> sbalneav:  hmm.. I guess the "Install the base system" is where I choose which partition to install it to?
[04:20] <Pitze> sbalneav: meaning when I push "Finish partitioning and write changes to disk" he (the install program) will only format those partitions I told him to? :P
[04:20] <sbalneav> Like I say, stop and do a backup.
[04:20] <sbalneav> I NEVER recommend installing to a disk that you don't have a backup for.
[04:22] <Pitze> problem is that my gentoo kind of crashed when I did something, so I can't start gentoo anymore.. how can I do a backup? you said "rsync backup", meaning?
[04:23] <Pitze> I could boot on a livecd and ssh it to a server..
[04:23] <Pitze> scp it I meant
[04:24] <Pitze> I can't burn a cd out of it, can I?
[04:24] <Pitze> or I guess I could if I ran it through the live cd...
[04:57] <rockprincess> the kids love ktouch :) wow
[05:03] <rockprincess> hmm nobody here? :(
[05:15] <kigurai> I am
[05:18] <rockprincess> cool ;)
[05:19] <kigurai> Yeah, I guess so :)
[05:20] <rockprincess> kigurai, what are you up to?
[05:20] <kigurai> Mostly lurking awaiting the return of cbx33.  A teacher then?
[05:27] <rockprincess> kigurai: hehe not really, I'm just a computer science student doing my bachelor thesis based on educational software e.g edubuntu :) and you?
[05:28] <kigurai> rockprincess: computer engineering student who is interested in the Google Summer of Code :)
[05:28] <rockprincess> kigurai: ahhhhh are you dodo?
[05:28] <kigurai> "dodo"?
[05:30] <rockprincess> kigurai: ahh sorry messed it up "doko" but apparently not.......he told me about his idea for Google Summer of Code.....
[05:31] <kigurai> Ah, ok. But no, I am not him :)
[05:31] <rockprincess> kigurai: what do you want to do for GSoC?
[05:31] <kigurai> I am interested in the web frontend to the thin client manager
[05:33] <rockprincess> cool
[05:33] <rockprincess> kigurai: i love this idea: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleSoC2007/teachers-gradebook
[05:34] <kigurai> rockprincess: Actually that one was what I was interested in first. But cbx33 advised me to go for the web frontend instead
[05:34] <kigurai> But yes, it sure sounds like a fun project :)
[05:37] <kigurai> So, exactly what is your thesis about? And how's it going? :)
[05:46] <rockprincess> kigurai: sorry, i was just unloading the dishwasher....
[05:47] <kigurai> np
[05:49] <rockprincess> kigurai: my bachelor thesis is about the usuage of educational free and open source software....basically about edubuntu in general, how the students are coping with it, what they like better, what they do not like about edubuntu....i've picked 3-4 apps that i'm now user-testing with my test-groups :)
[05:52] <kigurai> So, it is some sort of usability testing then?
[05:55] <rockprincess> yep, indeed!
[05:55] <rockprincess> brb
[05:59] <Laser_away> sbalneav: do a svn up yet?
[06:07] <kigurai> Now off for some food, and then kendo practice :)
[06:57] <sbalneav> Laser_away: hey, I did, but it's not the same as what I sent you, was it?
[06:57] <sbalneav> I had "workstation.xml" and "server.xml", etc.
[07:07] <LaserJock> sbalneav: it should be there
[07:08] <LaserJock> sbalneav: btw, are you getting the trunk or feisty branch
[07:17] <LaserJock> anybody know where RichEd is?
[07:22] <LaserJock> ogra or ogra_ : would a dynamic menus GUI be worth a SoC project?
[07:27] <sbalneav> ummm
[07:27] <sbalneav> Maybe I'm getting trunk
[07:28] <sbalneav> how do I got feisty? :)
[07:28] <LaserJock> well, I added your stuff to trunk as well
[07:29] <LaserJock> svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk ubuntu-doc
[07:29] <LaserJock> bah
[07:29] <LaserJock> svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/feisty ubuntu-doc-feisty
[07:29] <sbalneav> Sheep?
[07:30] <LaserJock> sbalneav: you don't see your changes when you svn up?
[07:30] <sbalneav> I'm checking out the feisty one now.
[07:31] <sbalneav> Sooooo, who do I slip a $20 to to get write access to the svn server? :)
[07:31] <LaserJock> make it a lunch in Spain and it's a deal
[07:31] <LaserJock> ;-)
[07:32] <sbalneav> You were gonna get a dinner from me anyway :)
[07:32] <sbalneav> Exciterated yet?
[07:33] <sbalneav> yeah, it's in the feisty one.
[07:33] <LaserJock> but not trunk?
[07:34] <sbalneav> As of thismorning, nyet.
[07:35] <LaserJock> oh heck, I know what I did
[07:35] <LaserJock> I applied the diff
[07:35] <LaserJock> but forgot to svn add the new files and svn rm the old ones
[07:38] <LaserJock> sbalneav: ok, try now
[07:38] <sbalneav> okiedokie, trying
[07:39] <sbalneav> edubuntugirl: LaserJock++
[07:39] <sbalneav> edubuntugirl: karma LaserJock
[07:39] <edubuntugirl> sbalneav: LaserJock has karma of 4
[07:39] <sbalneav> edubuntugirl: karma sbalneav
[07:39] <edubuntugirl> sbalneav: sbalneav has karma of 3
[07:40] <sbalneav> LaserJock > sbalneav
[07:40] <cliebow_> his fung-shwei aint so bad either..
[07:40] <sbalneav> edubuntugirl: karma ogra
[07:40] <edubuntugirl> sbalneav: ogra has karma of 4
[07:40] <sbalneav> That seems way too low
[07:40] <sbalneav> edubuntugirl: ogra++
[07:41] <LaserJock> yeah, there's no way I have more karma than ogra
[07:42] <LaserJock> sbalneav: have any SoC ideas for Edubuntu?
[07:42] <LaserJock> something light and fluffy that the SoC kiddies would enjoy?
[07:44] <Burgwork> sbalneav: the person you need to talk to is mdke
[07:46] <LaserJock> Burgwork: I've already pinged him
[07:46] <cliebow_> edubuntugirl: karma cliebow
[07:46] <edubuntugirl> cliebow_: cliebow has neutral karma
[07:46] <Burgwork> saw that
[07:46] <cliebow_> at least it is not negative
[07:46] <LaserJock> Burgwork: don't make me lose my free lunch ;-)
[07:46] <Burgwork> oh, right
[07:47] <Burgwork> sbalneav: I will do it for the price of a coffee :)
[07:47] <LaserJock> doh
[07:55] <sbalneav> Hmmm, an SOC project.....
[07:56] <sbalneav> You know what we need MORE THAN FLIPPING ANYTHING?!?!
[07:56] <sbalneav> is to get the graphical gnome user and group manager LDAP aware.
[07:57] <sbalneav> Solving the other LDAP problems are fairly easy: we just need to turn the crank
[07:57] <LaserJock> I'm interested in that, from the dynamic menus standpoint
[07:57] <sbalneav> however, once you HAVE ldap, there's no "good" way to manage it simply
[07:57] <LaserJock> so could that be done sort of independently of ldap?
[07:57] <sbalneav> Apart from GQ, which, although workable, is hardly a beginners tool.
[07:58] <sbalneav> It could be, I suspect, here's why
[07:58] <sbalneav> If the app is re-written to use the actual getpwent() and getgrent() libc calls
[07:59] <sbalneav> rather than actually LOOKING AT THE /etc/passwd AND /etc/group FILES (Thats SO 1980's)...
[07:59] <sbalneav> then, with a properly functioning LDAP setup, you could manage it right from the simple user-and-group manager.
[08:00] <sbalneav> this == win for new admins.
[08:01] <LaserJock> so that'd be more of a Gnome project right? we wouldn't need to make it Edubuntu specific?
[08:01] <sbalneav> Well, technically more of a Gnome project, I guess, but it could show up first in Edubuntu as patches to the user manager
[08:02] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:02] <sbalneav> I've got this fellow Sayan who wants to do a math-test generator for school age kids, that'd be pretty cherry.
[08:03] <LaserJock> although I don't really see the Gnome user-and-group tool as being very nice for large numbers of users
[08:03] <LaserJock> sbalneav: I'm sending in a mentorship application and Keybuk wanted projects I'd be interested in mentoring and if I had any new ideas
[08:04] <sbalneav> That's my next project for SOC for you
[08:04] <sbalneav> bulk user addition deletion
[08:04] <sbalneav> Text file with:
[08:04] <sbalneav> ADD firstname lastname
[08:04] <LaserJock> I was thinking I could put dynamic menus on there
[08:04] <sbalneav> DELETE firstname lastname
[08:04] <sbalneav> Dynmenus would be a good one.
[08:05] <sbalneav> so theres 3 idears right there.
[08:05] <LaserJock> I was thinking of a graphical theme switcher for Edubuntu
[08:05] <sbalneav> Here's another one that would be a huge win:  although it's complicated.
[08:06] <LaserJock> where you can easily switch betwen young, plain, and old or whatever they're called these days
[08:06] <Burgwork> sbalneav: making the gnome user thing ldap aware is on the gnome soc list, because I pu ti there
[08:06] <LaserJock> ah excellent
[08:07] <Burgwork> another cool idea would be to do a basic interface for very young children
[08:07] <sbalneav> Now that java's open source, replace the crack-induced sound calls writing to /dev/dsp with proper gstreamer calls, and bundle a fixed up java engine with edubuntu that will run java based kids games over thin client WITH sound, right out of the box.
[08:07] <Burgwork> basically a pygtk interface with big buttons
[08:07] <Burgwork> I believe pulse audio is the way to go for that
[08:07] <sbalneav> sure, but it's still a shim
[08:08] <sbalneav> we have to emulate a soundcard locally, as opposed to proper gstreamer calls.
[08:08] <Burgwork> well, I don't know there is a better way
[08:08] <LaserJock> Burgwork: keybuk asked me what kind of outside projects I'd be interested in. Do you have any idea what he means by that?
[08:08] <sbalneav> here's a good one: port the OLPC sexy desktop to edubuntu.
[08:08] <Burgwork> sugar?
[08:08] <Burgwork> LaserJock: "outside" projects?
[08:08] <Burgwork> I have no idea
[08:09] <Burgwork> I wonder if they are fishing to hire you
[08:09] <sbalneav> is that what it's called?
[08:09] <LaserJock> I wondered if he meant outside Ubuntu or what
[08:09] <LaserJock> Burgwork: hire me? I'm just volunteering to mentor SoC
[08:09] <Burgwork> yes, the interface is called sugar
[08:09] <Burgwork> you are a good MOTU manager, I would hire you
[08:12] <LaserJock> well, I keep saying I'm a chemist not a distro developer
[08:12] <LaserJock> but I seem to be getting further in Ubuntu than I am in Chemistry :/
[08:21] <Burgwork> if you love something, do it
[08:21] <Burgwork> sbalneav: how good is your perl knowledge?
[08:25] <sbalneav> Burgwork: Minimal at best.  I'm more fluent in python.
[08:26] <sbalneav> But C's what I do best.
[08:33] <Burgwork> right
[08:33] <Burgwork> because,afaik, the backend for the gnome tools is perl
[08:35] <LaserJock> it is?
[08:35] <Burgwork> the gnome-system-tools
[08:35] <LaserJock> Burgwork: "another cool idea would be to do a basic interface for very young children"
[08:35] <LaserJock> what do you mean by that?
[08:35] <Burgwork> some sort of a complete interface for young children
[08:36] <Burgwork> basically a full screen app that can launch a few other apps
[08:36] <LaserJock> mhm
[08:36] <Burgwork> replacing the whoel desktop/panel, etc.
[08:36] <Burgwork> http://system-tools-backends.freedesktop.org/faq.html <-- LaserJock
[08:37] <LaserJock> hmm, squeak is kinda like that
[08:37] <LaserJock> or full screen gcompris
[08:38] <LaserJock> Burgwork: perhaps that's why ogra wanted to rewrite the user-and-group manager
[08:38] <LaserJock> or at least something like that
[08:38] <Burgwork> basically
[08:39] <Burgwork> however, another set of distro specific tools is not what we need
[08:39] <LaserJock> no, but sometimes it's easier to start in the distro and move back upstream
[08:39] <cliebow_> we're dying here for programs that do the same work as lexia..read180...plato..im losing "market share" for my terminals every day cause good 6-12 remedial stuff isnt available
[08:40] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:40] <LaserJock> I really think we need more good-quality educational apps
[08:41] <LaserJock> but it seems nobody wants to work on that much :(
[08:41] <cliebow_> like "what he said"
[08:41] <LaserJock> we had a couple of SoC projects last year for edu apps
[08:41] <cliebow_> lexia promised me thet were working on a linux versdion..it already works in Macosx
[08:42] <LaserJock> but I don't know if they got much of anywere
[08:42] <cliebow_> but nothing has happened
[08:44] <cliebow_> SoC?>
[08:45] <LaserJock> Google Summer of Code
[08:45] <cliebow_> Than you!
[08:47] <LaserJock> I think we have a definate lack of reading programs
[09:01] <LaserJock> cliebow_: what kinds of apps are most needed for you?
[09:02] <LaserJock> seems like reading apps are kinda hard to find
[09:02] <sbalneav> cliebow_ needs a typing tutor :)
[09:02] <LaserJock> or maybe I'm not looking in the right places
[09:02] <LaserJock> I think we have one of those
[09:02] <LaserJock> ;-)
[09:02] <cliebow_> cliebow himself needs one..
[09:03] <sbalneav> That's what I meant.
[09:03] <sbalneav> :)
[09:03] <cliebow_> let me get back to you..ill grab the read180 teacher...
[09:03] <cliebow_> well..ill ask her kindly for input i mean  ^_^
[09:08] <cliebow_> later...
[09:35] <kigurai> Hello...
[09:58] <Burgwork> crap, missed sbalneav
[09:58] <cbx33> hey Burgwork
[09:58] <Burgwork> hey cbx33
[10:14] <ajmitch> hi
[11:47] <mattva01> quick question, has anyone here ever used apt-mirror to create a ubuntu mirror?


[12:00]  * Digit hears rumors ubuntu going snaps only
 "hears rumors ubuntu going..." <- Once they cannot block use of flatpak, then just a minor annoyance. If I have to choose between the two, I wish I could flatpak everything. Will not forget the application updates of old, that crippled, or knocked out OS, that led to reinstallations as the only remaining fix !
[12:20] <Digit> i've not got sold on snaps, flatpacks, appimage, any of it.  ^issue a non issue for me since bedrock user for a decade.  there be other ways.
[12:28] <Digit> anyway, i was just wondering what the implications are for ubuntustudio, in what form the rumors are true
[15:07] <Eickmeyer> Those rumors are false. That's going to be one immutable version of Ubuntu, nothing more. Will not affect Ubuntu Studio in any way.
[15:07] <Eickmeyer> It will be akin to Fedora's Silverblue.
[15:07] <Eickmeyer> Digit: ^
[15:08] <Eickmeyer> There will still be a regular Ubuntu version that is not whollly immutable.
[17:04] <Digit> i see, someone musta mistook "a snaps only" for "all only snaps only".


[06:53] <Kilos> o/
[13:01] <Brainstorm> Updates for Bangladesh: +1951 cases, +9 deaths, +28097 tests (6.9% positive) since 23 hours ago


[07:18] <soee> good morning
[08:26] <jubo2> Suppose I have a machine with Ethernet and WiFi connected. Can I choose what to route to what internet ?
[08:27] <jubo2> I mean I'd like to download all the big data items via landline coz it's unecolo to do so on wireless networks
[08:29] <hateball> jubo2: sure
[08:30] <jubo2> hateball: got any software names or urls ?
[08:30] <jubo2> or is it with not-off-the-shelf stuff
[08:30] <hateball> jubo2: well actually describe a bit more in detail
[08:30] <hateball> you have two interfaces on a LAN, but you want only one of them to be used for WAN?
[08:31] <hateball> or should both use WAN but iface1 for certain urls, and iface2 for others?
[08:33] <hateball> hmmm, seems you couldnt set metric with network-manager until recently
[08:33] <jubo2> hateball: I have ethernet connected to 20/1 Mbit/s ADSL. I have wireless connected to a portable 4G WiFi basestation. I want irc to go to wireless, all upload ( 4G is 15x faster uploader here where I live than the landline ) goes to 4G and TOR.. I dunno where TOR goes..
[08:33] <hateball> that'd be one way to go about it
[08:34] <hateball> ah
[08:34] <hateball> hmmm
[08:34] <hateball> that's.... tricky
[08:35] <jubo2> hateball: The System™ would hate this kind of software enabling versatile configuration and even randomization for people with many internets
[08:35] <jubo2> If one could dynamically route traffic to via many different internet conncetions would really cook the NSA stalk-guy's noodle
[08:36] <hateball> jubo2: google led me here, but I havent tried it http://www.evolware.org/?p=293
[08:36] <hateball> there is the option of iptables per ip etc but that's annoying...
[08:38] <jubo2> hateball: I hear https://duckduckgo.com and https://ixquick.com are the most privacy respecting search engines
[08:39] <jubo2> keep those Exabyte stacks building in the "Not-yet-cracked SSL encrypted traffic" in the NSA data silos
[08:41] <jubo2> plus they don't record your IP nor your search terms nor your click
[08:41] <jubo2> "If you are not paying for the product. You are the product." ~ Some guy
[08:43] <jubo2> So good reason to avoid dominant and rich companies and choose smaller SME self-capitalist who makes the pay-checks happen businesses..
[08:44] <hateball> k
[08:45] <jubo2> I'm having a LibreOffice Draw not starting situation on a Kubuntu14
[08:47] <jubo2> I'm downloading LibreOffice for Windows as a work-around
[08:47] <jubo2> really rare on GNU/Linux that a program just won't start
[08:49] <hateball> jubo2: Does it state anything if started from a terminal?
[08:49] <jubo2> hateball: I dunno. I always use the KDE-menu on the low-left
[08:50] <hateball> Yes well that's not very helpful when troubleshooting
[08:50] <jubo2> hateball: in other words.. how do I start it from shell
[08:50] <hateball> jubo2: open terminal, "lodraw"
[08:51] <jubo2> hateball: I do that. Rebooting to Kubuntu14 GNU/Linux now
[08:56] <jubo2> hateball: ok.. I run 'lodraw' now
[08:56] <jubo2> doesn't print anything, doesn't open any window
[08:56] <jubo2> I ctrl-c ?
[08:57] <lordieva1er> Good morning.
[08:58] <jubo2> mah libreoffice is brokeh
[09:09] <jubo2> Trying to get my brain to use Windows LibreOffice draw is causing it to warp
[09:09] <jubo2> Someone plos fix mah LibreOffice
[09:10] <soee> jubo2: whats wrong with it on Kubuntu ?
[09:10] <jubo2> soee: won't start at all
[09:10] <soee> LO Math ?
[09:10] <jubo2> I tried
[09:11] <soee> works fine for me
[09:11] <jubo2> 'lodraw' but that just hangs and doesn't print anything
[09:11] <soee> do you have officail packages from ubuntu repos ?
[09:11] <soee> are you sure its not opening on some different screen / activity for you ?
[09:12] <jubo2> soee: yes.. nothing is installed via other methods then 'sudo install this'
[09:27] <yu_> is it a commone problem in 14.10 that fonts change by themself to something unreadable?
[09:28] <yu_> and its usually not the special fonts either, its like v or o and so on letters you have in most languages
[09:30] <soee> nope
[09:32] <yu_> its happens frequently and I dont like to change fonts 1 or 2 times each session
[11:07] <yu_> damn fonts changed by themself for 2nd time in just hours. This never happened with other distros I tried
[11:12] <yu_> it happens only with mozilla : firefox and thunderbird...
[11:15] <yu_> maybe problem solved, I found something in settings about allowing websites to set fonts by themself as a default.
[11:47] <hateball> yu_: if it's the GUI fonts, those are GTK apps so maybe something is off with the oxygen-gtk
[12:12] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[12:41] <mazal> Good day everyone. Can someone recommend me a good KDE guide of everything the desktop can do. Recently installed Kubuntu and want to learn this desktop and it's features
[12:46] <soee> mazal: i think you must play with it a bit, though what you expect it to do/what you need ?
[12:47] <mazal> Soee , I just want to learn all it's features
[12:48] <mazal> Been on Unity a long time and switched now , don't know KDE at all , so just want to learn it
[12:48] <soee> BluesKaj: you are more experienced, can you give some advice here, or lordievader ^
[12:49] <soee> im not usre what advice should i give :) for me learing something is clicking here and there, looking for a ferature i need etc.
[12:49] <mazal> Just like a link to a nice full how-to / manual. Nothing specific I need , want to learn it all
[12:52] <soee> mazal: for a very basic stuff take a look at http://www.kubuntu.org/feature-tour
[12:53] <soee> than i just suggest click here and there and test stuff
[12:53] <soee> System Settings secion is your  friend to see what  can be configured
[12:53] <soee> so Alt + F2 and type: System Settings and investigate each section there
[12:58] <_zxq9_> Hrm... anyone know if Postgres receives minor version release updates during the life of a single LTS version?
[13:00] <_zxq9_> Some distros only upgrade patches, so 9.3 will get updates to 9.3.1, 9.3.2, etc, but never 9.4 -- which is why I'm wondering.
[13:00] <klerik> May be you add some advanced repositary?
[13:01] <klerik> with postgres
[13:02] <_zxq9_> klerik: I usually do, just wondering if I should expect to skip adding the upstream deb repo, or if that's necessary with this distro.
[13:03] <_zxq9_> I'm not as familiar with this distro as with some of the others I've worked on for longer.
[13:03] <yofel> _zxq9_: #ubuntu-server might know more about that
[13:03] <_zxq9_> yofel: ty
[14:37] <Walex> csed: _zxq9_ you may not be entirely familiar with the notion of "LTS" :-)
[14:42] <_zxq9_> Walex: Not whatever the meaning is in the Ubuntu community. I'm rather intimately familiar with the idea in rh, suse, and aix -- but the ubuntu world seems to see many things very differently (and recently rh has changed its tendencies as well).
[14:43] <_zxq9_> So it was worth checking. No sense including a repo that the distro was going to be moving along with anyway.
[14:48] <noah> I'm having trouble connecting to a network
[14:49] <_zxq9_> noah: A bit vague... care to elaborate?
[14:50] <noah> _zxq9_: it's suck at "connecting"
[14:50] <_zxq9_> To the internet, or a specific network?
[14:50] <noah> __zxq9__: all networks
[14:51] <_zxq9_> Wireless or with a cable?
[14:51] <_zxq9_> (like ethernet cable)
[14:52] <noah> __zxq9__: Both I think. it started when "vmnet1" and "vmnet8" appeared in my networks. I had had vmware installed for a while and had never seen them (as far as I know)
[14:52] <_zxq9_> Is your kubuntu a virtual guest, or the host?
[14:53] <noah> __zxq9__: so I uninstalled vmware but the problem is still persisting. Kubuntu is a host.
[14:54] <_zxq9_> Where are you seeing "vmnet?" entries?  KVM is far more flexible.
[14:55] <_zxq9_> yossarianuk: +1
[14:55] <noah> _zxq9_ I was seeing them. In the networks module.  I may know unless it's something real technical.
[14:58] <_zxq9_> noah: Usually, I troubleshoot network issues from absolute zero on the command line (regardless of distro).
[14:58] <_zxq9_> noah: It should show you what network devices you have enabled, and then what addresses each device should be listening for.
[14:59] <_zxq9_> So, for example, here is mine right now: http://fpaste.org/170524/14214203/
[14:59] <_zxq9_> Given that, I can usually get a grip on what is wrong.
[14:59] <noah> _zxq9_: OK. Well I'm pretty sure the ones I need are enabled. But I'll check.
[15:00] <noah> _zxq9_: This issue does have an interesting symptom though
[15:00] <_zxq9_> There is a Gentoo wiki page about ip manual setup that is usually remarkably useful in other situations... let me find it.
[15:00] <_zxq9_> noah: What is the interesting symptom?
[15:01] <noah> _zxq9_: You know how when not connected it displays a wifi bar with a yellow dot?
[15:02] <noah> _zxq9_: And that yellow dot stays there until it is absolutely connected.
[15:03] <_zxq9_> yes
[15:03] <noah> _zxq9_: Well the yellow dot disappears even before it is done connecting.
[15:04] <_zxq9_> That is sort of weird.
[15:04] <noah> _zxq9_: Yeah, so it shows a wifi bar, and the loading circle spinning.
[15:05] <_zxq9_> So you *are* connection across wifi.
[15:06] <_zxq9_> And you're using the KDE environment directly.
[15:06] <_zxq9_> as in, GUI experience.
[15:07] <noah> _zxq9_: Yes for the KDE GUI. And, Well, no. Websites and stuff still don't work. The loading circle goes on and on. I haven't let it go on that much because it usually doesn't take that long so I assume that if it takes much longer than that, something is messed up.
[15:08] <_zxq9_> noah: Have you clicked it to pick a specific wifi point to which you want to connect?
[15:08] <noah> _zxq9_: Yep
[15:08] <_zxq9_> And it just takes forever. I assume you have checked the password, encryption type, etc?
[15:08] <noah> _zxq9_: Yep.
[15:09] <_zxq9_> I've had cases where the encryption type have spontaneously switched to something different than the real one -- so its good to double check.
[15:10] <noah> _zxq9_: It was having this problem on previously saved networks as well. Interestingly, before all this I had gotten the "disk is unavailable. press s or m" error, but it resolved itself.
[15:10] <_zxq9_> edit connection > wireless security > security: Type
[15:10] <_zxq9_> hrm... that is a really wild error message for this problem, though.
[15:11] <_zxq9_> What vmware product did you install?
[15:11] <noah> _zxq9_: vmware player. And I had had it on there for a while.
[15:11] <noah> _zxq9_: and the disk error was at boot
[15:11] <_zxq9_> Let me get this straight: before vmware, OK; after vmware, not OK?
[15:11] <_zxq9_> ah
[15:12] <_zxq9_> btw, I don't think this applies to your case just now, but its a profoundly useful future reference: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Full/Installation#Manual_network_configuration
[15:12] <noah> _zxq9_: Installed vmware fine. Used it for a while (weeks, maybe months). Screwed around and broke something not related to network but fixed it. Boot error. vmnet1 and 8 appear. Not fine
[15:13] <_zxq9_> What was the thing you broke?
[15:13] <noah> _zxq9_: my kdm theme
[15:13] <_zxq9_> What about the theme broke?
[15:13] <noah> _zxq9_: I deleted it accidentally.
[15:14] <_zxq9_> ah. Anything else disappear accidentally at that time along with the theme? (wondering if it was something more general in /etc)
[15:15] <noah> _zxq9_: Don't know. Didn't touch anything there. Although my bootsplash did disappear. But the network still worked for a little bit after that. Anyway. Even after I uninstalled vmware the problem persisted.
[15:16] <noah> _zxq9_: would there be some kind of log for what it's trying to do as it connects?
[15:18] <_zxq9_> How long ago did the problem start?
[15:18] <BluesKaj> noah, how did you remove vmware?
[15:19] <noah> _zxq9_: yesterday. BluesKaj I uninstalled it via vmware-uninstaller.
[15:21] <BluesKaj> noah, strange then it should have removed the networking config file which seems to be hijacking your internet connection
[15:21] <lordievader> soee: Learning KDE means using it, there is not really a guide for that...
[15:21] <noah> BluesKaj: what do you mean?
[15:21] <BluesKaj> noah, I had the same experience with vmware a while back
[15:22] <noah> BluesKaj: stuck at connecting as it goes on and on?
[15:23] <BluesKaj> yup
[15:23] <noah> BluesKaj: how did u fix it?
[15:24] <BluesKaj> noah, look for vmware files and i purged them , sudo rm -rf vmware*... it was drastic but it was the only way iirc
[15:25] <BluesKaj> lordievader, any suggestions, that are less drastic ?
[15:25] <noah> BluesKaj: and do I need to be in a certain folder to do so?
[15:26] <lordievader> BluesKaj: Err, what? About this wifi thing? I haven't really been following the conversation.
[15:26] <BluesKaj> noah, that commandf I posted my be very dangerous , I don't advise using it
[15:26] <BluesKaj> may be
[15:28] <_zxq9_> それで出来るかも
[15:28] <_zxq9_> bah... wrong channel
[15:28]  * BluesKaj vowed to never use vmware again
[15:29] <BluesKaj> !cn | _zxq9_
[15:29] <_zxq9_> noah: try something like "locate vmware" first, just to see where everything names *vmware* is first.
[15:29] <_zxq9_> BluesKaj: Japanese, not Chinese. Anyway, misspost there.
[15:30] <_zxq9_> !jp | _zxq9_
[15:30] <_zxq9_> heh, interesting.
[15:30] <BluesKaj> _zxq9_, oops sorry ...my japanese is a little rusty
[15:31] <lordievader> Blegh, my utf-8 support is broken (again) :(
[15:31] <_zxq9_> BluesKaj: np, just totally wrong thing. My head was mixed in two conversations and two languages at once. blurp.
[15:31] <noah> BluesKaj: do you know if there is a log where I can see what network-manager is doing while it is stuck connecting?
[15:31] <BluesKaj> noah, var/log/syslog
[15:32] <_zxq9_> BluesKaj: btw, there seems to be an army of just me in the jp channels... hehe. Typical.
[15:32] <noah> BluesKaj: oh. well that will show everything. Anything more specific?
[15:32] <BluesKaj> err /var/log/syslog
[15:32] <_zxq9_> noah: Be prepared to plow through a few bajillion messages to find the pertinent ones in there.
[15:33] <BluesKaj> noah, nope, can't think of anything...syslog is the latest one usually afaik
[15:33] <noah> ok. I'm gonna hop over there. hopefully I can come back soon. BluesKaj I found this: grep -i networkmanager /var/log/syslog
[15:34] <BluesKaj> noah, when was your last boot?
[15:34] <noah> this morning
[15:34] <BluesKaj> then itshouldn't be too long
[15:34] <noah> but I'm going over to my kubuntu boot now.
[15:35] <lordievader> noah: Turn off NM, and try connecting with wpa_supplicant.
[15:35] <lordievader> Gives you all the nitty gritty you need to debug the issue.
[16:18] <noah> im back BluesKaj\
[16:18] <noah> _zxq9_: im back
[16:21] <noah> is anyone on?
[16:21] <lordievader> noah: Did you receive my message?
[16:21] <noah> lordievader: no
[16:22] <lordievader> noah: Turn off NM, and try connecting with wpa_supplicant.
[16:22] <lordievader> Gives you all the nitty gritty you need to debug the issue.
[16:23] <noah> I found the issue
[16:23] <noah> "No secrets"
[16:24] <BluesKaj> noah, ok, care to share ?
[16:24] <noah> I thought I had copied it and saved it but forgot to save
[16:24] <noah> but i remember
[16:24] <noah> "no secrets"
[16:25] <lordievader> No secrets, sounds like a wrong wpa passphrase.
[16:25] <noah> lordievader: well I know it is correct.
[16:26] <noah> lordievader: this was in the syslog
[16:28] <noah_> did i miss anything
[16:29] <noah_> BluesKaj: what was the config file you found that was messing up ur wifi
[16:30] <lordievader> noah_: Could you pastebin the relevant syslog output, please?
[16:30] <BluesKaj> wth is wrong with launchpad , i changed IP addresses a long time ago when i changed my ISP, now I can't change the registered email address to one that actaully works
[16:30] <noah_> I though I had saved it, but it messed up. It will take a while for me to try it again.
[16:31] <BluesKaj> noah_, it was a vmware network config file iirc
[16:31] <noah_> lordievader: i have to redo it. I had to save to a file but forgot to click save. it might take a few mins.
[16:32] <lordievader> BluesKaj: Since when does LP care about your ip address.
[16:32] <lordievader> ?
[16:32] <noah___> lordievader: I was disconnected. did u say anything?
[16:33] <lordievader> noah___: No.
[16:33] <BluesKaj> yeah , lordievader, good point, maybe aI'm being a bit anal about it but it bugs me that LP won't let me change i9n the my profile after logging in ...seems silly to me
[16:34] <noah___> lordievader: ok. so i'm going to have to boot back into kubuntu to get the log.
[16:41] <Jbuug> hello
[16:42] <BluesKaj> hi Jbuug
[16:42] <BluesKaj> heh
[17:03] <noah___> lordievader: you still on?
[17:03] <lordievader> Yes.
[17:03] <noah___> ok. I got the file I'm gonna pastebin it
[17:05] <noah___> lordievader: should I use some synatax highlighting to make it easier?
[17:06] <lordievader> noah___: No, just pastebin the contents.
[17:06] <noah___> lordievader: just pmd you the link
[17:07] <noah___> lordievader: i used x's to hide some personally identifiable info
[17:09] <lordievader> App armor kills your dhcp request it seems, you are connected just fine.
[17:09] <noah___> lordievader: what is app armor?
[17:10] <lordievader> noah___: A ubuntu security thing.
[17:10] <noah___> oh.
[17:10] <lordievader> See lines 144 till the end.
[17:11] <noah___> so It appears it actually connected with my friends hotspot but it couldn't ping
[17:12] <noah___> lordievader: what could i do to fix the ping?
[17:13] <lordievader> noah___: You are connected, but you cannot get an ip since your dhcp client is getting killed before it can request an ip.
[17:14] <noah___> lordievader: how do I fix that?
[17:16] <lordievader> noah___: No idea, I don't know app armor as it has never bothered me. Figure out why it is blocking it, and make an exception or something.
[17:17] <noah___> lordievader: it could be a route thing. I'm gonna go try route -n/
[17:17] <lordievader> noah___: It ain't, look at the logging.
[17:18] <noah___> lordievader: why now of all times? how did it work before?
[17:19] <noah___> lordievader: i'm gonna try it any way
[17:29] <MadRabbit> hi all, downloaded 14.10-amd64 iso by utorrent (3 times) and direct 2 times. md5's do not match from either download, Burned 1 of each type download (at 1x). Neither will do an install; stops at 33%. No disc spin, no hd light...45 minutes later, both died.  So what is happening here? where does it say it is killing it.
[17:47] <lordievader> Jan 16 11:52:11 Noah-Kubuntu kernel: [  985.105770] type=1400 audit(1421427131.682:84): apparmor="DENIED" operation="exec" profile="/sbin/dhclient" name="/usr/lib/NetworkManager/nm-dhcp-helper" pid=5361 comm="dhclient" requested_mask="x" denied_mask="x" fsuid=0 ouid=0
[17:47] <lordievader> Jan 16 11:52:11 Noah-Kubuntu dhclient: execve (/usr/lib/NetworkManager/nm-dhcp-helper, ...): Permission denied
[17:47] <noah_____> lordievader: ok
[17:48] <BluesKaj> noah_____, sudo dhclient wlan0 ...does that show a connection?
[17:49] <noah_____> lordievader: just a moment
[17:51] <rberg_> personally I would be suspicious if apparmor was preventing dhclient from running. unless maybe you were modifing the config files or changing paths.
[17:53] <rberg_> also on my system I dont have a "/usr/lib/NetworkManager/nm-dhcp-helper" but I do have "/usr/lib/NetworkManager/nm-dhcp-client.action"
[17:54] <noah_____> rberg_: lordievader am going over to kubuntu to try something. Also while i was over there route -n gave up empty
[17:55] <rberg_> check and see if "/usr/lib/NetworkManager/nm-dhcp-helper" actually exists
[17:55] <BluesKaj> rberg_, think it's a leftover setting in networking config file modified by vmware, which has since been removed
[17:55] <rberg_> ohh that could be.. (I dont use vmware)
[17:56] <BluesKaj> network manager actually
[18:02] <MadRabbit> hi all, downloaded 14.10-amd64 iso by utorrent (3 times) and direct 2 times. md5's do not match from either download, Burned 1 of each type download (at 1x). Neither will do an install; stops at 33%. No disc spin, no hd light...45 minutes later, both died. What's wrong?
[18:03] <BluesKaj> MadRabbit, from this mirror ? http://www.kubuntu.org/getkubuntu
[18:04] <MadRabbit> hmm, I'll double-chk the site...
[18:06] <MadRabbit> yes, plasma 4
[18:09] <MadRabbit> from ther, I downloaded both iso AND torrent
[18:18] <MadRabbit> ok, md5 sum listed on http://www.kubuntu.org/getkubuntu are WRONG!!! The sum on http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/utopic/release/MD5SUMS match.
[18:23] <noah_____> lordievader: i'm back. I realized I forgot to do the command u asked my to. what was it again?
[18:25] <noah_____> i think I got it. am trying again
[18:46] <noah> lordievader: u there? I think I fixed it.
[18:48] <BluesKaj> noah, how ? share nit with us so we can make a note if this comes up again
[19:03] <noah> lordievader: ok I "fixed" it. Now I have a totally different issue.
[19:04] <noah> noah:
[19:05] <nmg321> noah
[19:13] <noah> lordievader: you still there?
[19:15] <BluesKaj> noah, just state your new issue, perhaps some one else can help
[19:16] <noah> network-manager is having trouble managing secrets
[19:19] <BluesKaj> secrets ?
[19:19] <BluesKaj> noah, ^
[19:19] <noah> BluesKaj: the wifi secrets.
[19:21] <BluesKaj> password ?
[19:22] <noah> BluesKaj: no. but it is have problems connecting to previously saved networks.
[19:24] <lordievader> noah: Doesn't nm give them to kwallet?
[19:24] <kubuntu> hi
[19:24] <noah> lordievader: yeah. I think it's a kwallet issue
[19:28] <noah> lordievader: I'm getting "...has security, but secrets are required."
[19:30] <lordievader> noah: I'm going to suggest again to use wpa_supplicant: disable NM and use wpa_supplicant.
[19:30] <lordievader> NM is usefull, but it can be a large pita.
[19:30] <noah> lordievader: what is wpa_supplicant and how can I make sure disabling NM wont break internet?
[19:31] <lordievader> It will. That is the fun part :P
[19:31] <lordievader> noah: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WPAHowTo#WPA_Supplicant
[19:33] <noah> is wpa_supplicant gui compatable
[19:33] <noah> lordievader: is wpa_supplicant gui compatable
[19:35] <lordievader> noah: No idea.
[19:35]  * lordievader has to go
[20:19] <lordievader> noah: Any progress?
[21:38] <apb1963> I lost my virtual desktops....  ubuntu 14.04 with kde... any help getting them back?
[21:38] <apb1963> Reinstallation of plasma-desktop is not possible, it cannot be downloaded.
[21:53] <xnox> adding "plasma" session to upstart-xsessions
[21:53] <xnox> cause otherwise the session is not managed by upstart
[21:53] <xnox> wait, no
[21:53] <xnox> it's managed by systemd user session.
[21:55] <Unit193> xnox: Hello.  Though it seems it may be moot now, #kubuntu-devel is where the developers hang out and pay attention.  Since this is the support channel, much more likely to just slip past.
[21:58] <noah> im have wifi/kwallet issues
[22:09] <DaPoneKine> howdy howdy howdy
[23:26] <noah> I am having wifi issues
[23:26] <noah> with kwallet
[23:30] <petr_> ahoj
[23:39] <Scunizi> Any reason why kmail from within Kontact won't switch from the "Welcome to Kamil 4.14.2" screen when trying to view downloaded gmail?


[15:54]  * dpb1 drops off sword and starts a campfire
[15:59] <cpaelzer> o/
[15:59] <slashd> o/
[15:59] <nacc> o/
[15:59] <ahasenack> o/
[15:59] <dpb1> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
[15:59] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 20 15:59:52 2017 UTC.  The chair is dpb1. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:59] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:59] <dpb1> who we got?
[16:00] <ahasenack> o/
[16:00]  * dpb1 stokes fire a bit waiting for people to show
[16:00] <rbasak> o/
[16:00] <smb> o/
[16:01] <dpb1> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[16:02] <powersj> o/
[16:02] <dpb1> #action  rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
[16:02] <meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
[16:02] <rbasak> Carry over please
[16:03] <dpb1> hm
[16:03] <dpb1> to carry over do we just leave it sit?
[16:03]  * rbasak is adding a Trello card :-/
[16:03] <dpb1> ty
[16:03] <dpb1> #action nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
[16:03] <meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
[16:03] <dpb1> #action nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
[16:03] <meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
[16:03] <dpb1> still want to do these two nacc ?
[16:04] <teward> (I'm late, sorry)
[16:04] <nacc> dpb1: yeah, carry them please
[16:04] <cpaelzer> the embarrassment-level of having these all these release notes still around is rising :-)
[16:04] <cpaelzer> hi teward
[16:04] <dpb1> ok rharper your turn
[16:04] <dpb1> rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
[16:04] <dpb1> rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
[16:04] <dpb1> these feel more done, since we have them on rtd
[16:05] <rharper> carry of course
[16:05] <dpb1> could we link them to the RTD pages?
[16:05] <rharper> yes
[16:05] <ahasenack> what's rtf?
[16:05] <ahasenack> er
[16:05] <ahasenack> rtd
[16:05] <dpb1> readthedocs
[16:05] <rharper> Read The Docs
[16:05] <dpb1> #action rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
[16:05] <meetingology> ACTION: rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
[16:05] <dpb1> #action rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
[16:05] <meetingology> ACTION: rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
[16:05] <cpaelzer> #link http://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
[16:05] <dpb1> #link http://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
[16:06] <cpaelzer> thanks dpb1
[16:06] <dpb1> #topic Artful Development
[16:06] <dpb1> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
[16:06] <dpb1> #subtopic Trello
[16:06] <dpb1> Just wanted to let everyone know we have replaced "the blueprint" with a trello board
[16:07] <dpb1> #link https://trello.com/b/U9HhWyT0/daily-ubuntu-server
[16:07] <dpb1> know we talked about it last week, but just a reminder
[16:07] <teward> dpb1: +1 for that - it's a lot more useful than 'the blueprint' in my opinion.
[16:07] <dpb1> thx teward
[16:07] <teward> (also better at-a-glance to see what's going on in what states)
[16:07] <dpb1> +1
[16:07] <dpb1> #subtopic Active work that may need wider communication
[16:08] <dpb1> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
[16:08] <cpaelzer> I have something I wondered on devel, actually on proposed migration in general
[16:08] <dpb1> floor is yours cpaelzer
[16:08] <cpaelzer> if any migration issues were overrulled by the power of an AA or such, can that be tracked afterwards anywhere?
[16:08] <cpaelzer> -l
[16:09] <ahasenack> what are the usual reasons?
[16:09] <ahasenack> flaky tests?/
[16:09] <teward> testsuite fail
[16:09] <cpaelzer> yes
[16:09] <teward> package dependencies not built
[16:09] <teward> etc.
[16:09] <ahasenack> I think for flaky tests a bug can be filed
[16:09] <ahasenack> we shouldn't get used to failing tests
[16:10] <teward> there's also the case where "new binary packages" exist that didn't exist before and they usually are just cashiered in.
[16:10] <dpb1> cpaelzer: you mean, we have moved the trello card into done already, that kind of tracking?
[16:10] <cpaelzer> no
[16:10] <cpaelzer> let me explain
[16:10] <cpaelzer> I had a package which is a auto-sync from Debian
[16:10] <cpaelzer> and it passed into artful, so it has completed its proposed migration
[16:11] <cpaelzer> I was wondering if somebody "shoved" it through as since then all related tests were failing
[16:11] <teward> don't non-merge autosyncs skip proposed migration?
[16:12] <cpaelzer> I have seen other auto-syncs in migration
[16:12] <cpaelzer> if some skip there must be a splitter somewhere which decides
[16:12] <cpaelzer> e.g. mininet 2.2.2-1 was in artful, but until then http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/mininet/artful/amd64 had NO listing of any 2.2.2-1 test
[16:12] <cpaelzer> but I don't want to pick on this case
[16:12] <cpaelzer> I have found and fixed it
[16:13] <cpaelzer> I wonder if I have package X in release Y - is there any way/place I can check if anything was --force ?
[16:13] <dpb1> audit log
[16:13] <cpaelzer> like as launchpad has a publication history if there is a "package exception history" anywhere?
[16:13] <dpb1> or something like that
[16:13] <cpaelzer> yeah
[16:13] <ahasenack> I guess only an AA can answer
[16:13] <dpb1> Might be worth a reach out to ubuntu-devel
[16:14] <cpaelzer> maybe with better words, but yes
[16:14] <cpaelzer> ok I'll take an action to ask
[16:14] <cpaelzer> I wanted to know it, so I volunteer to ask about it
[16:14] <dpb1> #action cpaelzer reach out to ubuntu-devel@/AA and find out if an audit log of package exceptions exists anywhere
[16:14] <meetingology> ACTION: cpaelzer reach out to ubuntu-devel@/AA and find out if an audit log of package exceptions exists anywhere
[16:15] <dpb1> Any other topics to bring up about artful development?
[16:15] <dpb1> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd)
[16:15] <slashd> Here's the list of LP bugs that SEG is currently working on : http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24908778/
[16:15] <slashd> - By any chance, if there is a SRU verification member amongst us who has some cycle, we would appreciate to have someone approving the upload listed under [SRU verification needed] ^. Otherwise, it's fine I'll ask the SRU vanguard.
[16:15] <slashd> - Also note that we are currently working on a MIR process to request to uplift 'pcp' pkg from Ubuntu universe to Ubuntu main. The paper work is not ready yet, but we are working on it. I'll probably have more to say about it next week.
[16:16] <slashd> #info SRU pending for : percona-xtradb-cluster-5.5, nfs-utils, autofs5, percona-xtradb-cluster-5.6 percona-xtradb-cluster-5.5, multipath-tools, isc-dhcp
[16:16] <dpb1> #info SRU pending for : percona-xtradb-cluster-5.5, nfs-utils, autofs5, percona-xtradb-cluster-5.6 percona-xtradb-cluster-5.5, multipath-tools, isc-dhcp
[16:17] <cpaelzer> adding - #info further SRU pending: qemu, ntp
[16:17] <dpb1> rbasak: any suggestion on the SRU for slashd?
[16:17] <dpb1> #info further SRU pending: qemu, ntp
[16:17] <rbasak> It's an endless queue unfortunately. It's my SRU day tomorrow - I'll take a look if I get that far.
[16:18] <slashd> rbasak, thanks
[16:18] <dpb1> slashd: any help needed on the bug list?
[16:18] <cpaelzer> slashd: I wonder - are you usually relying on SRU verification team?
[16:18] <slashd> dpb1, everything is under control
[16:19] <cpaelzer> usually we try to get the reporters to help, who would that be in your case
[16:19] <cpaelzer> any on site partner maybe?
[16:19] <slashd> cpaelzer, we are always relying on them for SRU
[16:19] <cpaelzer> or are they totally out of the loop in your case?
[16:19] <cpaelzer> ah ok, then it is the same
[16:19] <cpaelzer> so "just" the normal SRU duty
[16:19] <cpaelzer> which rbasak and his peers are fighting the queue
[16:19] <cpaelzer> thanks slashd
[16:20] <dpb1> thanks slashd for the summary, interesting bugs this week. :)
[16:20] <dpb1> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
[16:20] <dpb1> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
[16:20] <powersj> Last week got the cloud-init tests of COPR complete and running daily. Overhauled the daily tests of cloud-init and as of last night, got the CI pipeline in place and operational. Continue to run into some issues with pylxd and lxd 2.14, so running a local patched version of pylxd until pypi can be updated. And a blog post on our sprint.
[16:20] <powersj> This week get the CI pipeline announced, get the ISO tests green, and back to proposed testing.
[16:20] <powersj> questions?
[16:21] <dpb1> have you checked with anyone on the pylxd issue?
[16:21] <dpb1> or is there a bug filed?
[16:21] <powersj> yes it is a matter of getting a new version uploaded to pypi
[16:21] <powersj> and yes
[16:21] <dpb1> linky linky?
[16:22] <powersj> https://github.com/lxc/pylxd/issues/232
[16:22] <slashd> dpb1, Is it possible to add on the #topic server ddstreet as a backup in case I'm absent ?
[16:22] <dpb1> #link https://github.com/lxc/pylxd/issues/232
[16:22] <dpb1> #action dpb look into why this is stalled https://github.com/lxc/pylxd/issues/232
[16:22] <meetingology> ACTION: dpb look into why this is stalled https://github.com/lxc/pylxd/issues/232
[16:23] <rbasak> slashd: I suggest you just go ahead and edit
[16:23] <rbasak> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:23] <dpb1> slashd: I'll do it
[16:23] <slashd> rbasak, dpb1 I did but it seems ddstreet disapeared from the list.
[16:23] <dpb1> #action dpb add on the #topic server ddstreet as a backup in case slashd is absent ?
[16:23] <meetingology> ACTION: dpb add on the #topic server ddstreet as a backup in case slashd is absent ?
[16:23] <slashd> dpb1, thanks
[16:23] <dpb1> slashd: thx for bringing it up
[16:24] <dpb1> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
[16:24]  * rbasak suspects someone is using something other than the agenda to paste in meetingology commands :-)
[16:24] <smb> An embargoed CVE uncloaked on your port side. Many new kernels launched. Otherwise the 4.11 kernel for artful still waits in proposed for better times (not sure what keeps it as I was distracted by previous news item). Are there questions?
[16:25] <cpaelzer> smb: since you love the questions ahead of time, 4.14 next LTS is that in time for 18.04 ?
[16:25] <dpb1> rbasak: (aside) it's why I took the action, I want to clean up the sources of truth
[16:26] <smb> cpaelzer, maybe too soon even.
[16:26] <smb> cpaelzer, estimated release of 4.14 is Nov-2017
[16:26] <cpaelzer> ~November/December
[16:26] <cpaelzer> yeah
[16:26] <cpaelzer> too bad
[16:26] <cpaelzer> try to stall the current 70 day cacle :-)
[16:27] <dpb1> As the kernel turns....
[16:27] <smb> Those plans ever worked sooo well
[16:27] <dpb1> OK.
[16:27] <dpb1> thx smb
[16:27] <dpb1> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
[16:27] <dpb1> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
[16:28] <powersj> I did submit for debconf, but haven't heard back
[16:28] <dpb1> any conferences or deadlines people are aiming for?
[16:28] <cpaelzer> I heard that people are going to http://event.share.org/page/share-providence-registration
[16:29] <cpaelzer> but it is too late to submit own ones
[16:29] <cpaelzer> I'll track feedback from there with jfh, if it seems useful I might consider that next time
[16:29] <cpaelzer> I was a regular speaker there in the past which might help to get accepted
[16:29] <cpaelzer> but for now just FYI
[16:29] <dpb1> #link http://event.share.org/page/share-providence-registration
[16:30] <dpb1> #info cpaelzer interested in investgating for useful content.
[16:30] <dpb1> that will be a great line item in the meeting notes
[16:30] <teward> heh
[16:30] <dpb1> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
[16:30] <cpaelzer> hehe
[16:31] <teward> better than what cpaelzer is taking from an OOB discussion as a quote regarding NTP from me xD  (lol)
[16:31] <cpaelzer> #link http://events.share.org/Summer2017/Public/Sessions.aspx?undefinedSuperTrackId=&TrackId=&AssociationId=&DateId=&FormatId=&DurationId=&SpeakerId=&AbilityLevelId=&SessionTypeId=&SubExpoId=&Keyword=ubuntu&&SearchEvent=&View=Sessions_summary
[16:31] <cpaelzer> all ubuntu covering sessions scheduled for this time
[16:31] <cpaelzer> but we are at Team events, sorry - too late
[16:31] <dpb1> #link http://events.share.org/Summer2017/Public/Sessions.aspx?undefinedSuperTrackId=&TrackId=&AssociationId=&DateId=&FormatId=&DurationId=&SpeakerId=&AbilityLevelId=&SessionTypeId=&SubExpoId=&Keyword=ubuntu&&SearchEvent=&View=Sessions_summary
[16:31] <powersj> we need another bug squashing day, been too long
[16:31] <dpb1> cpaelzer: it's ok, the meeting notes are already sunk this week, best to sink them all the way
[16:32] <cpaelzer> powersj: +1 *
[16:32] <dpb1> #idea new bug squashing day is needed
[16:32] <cpaelzer> * = if nothing in server-next teases you please help clear the expiring backlog
[16:32] <cpaelzer> more on the open discussion
[16:33] <dpb1> powersj: how do we normally announce it?
[16:33]  * cpaelzer is waiting for dpb1 to spin the topic-wheel-of-fortune
[16:33] <powersj> to mailing list
[16:33] <cpaelzer> nacc: writes to the list
[16:33] <cpaelzer> and we update the wiki
[16:33] <cpaelzer> there is a common header on all our pages
[16:33] <nacc> technically anyone can do it
[16:33] <nacc> :)
[16:33] <dpb1> I nominate powersj to do it
[16:33] <powersj> *sigh*
[16:33] <dpb1> any seconds?
[16:34] <dpb1> :)
[16:34] <powersj> go ahead and give me the action, I'll show the rest of you how to complete an action item
[16:34] <powersj> ;)
[16:34] <cpaelzer> yeah !!
[16:34] <dpb1> #humblebrag
[16:34] <rharper> lol
[16:34] <dpb1> #action powersj schedule a bugsquashing day!
[16:34] <meetingology> ACTION: powersj schedule a bugsquashing day!
[16:34] <dpb1> exciting
[16:35] <dpb1> #topic Open Discussion
[16:35] <teward> just... keep yer mitts off nginx - it's gonna have some rapid-changes in the next while :P
[16:35] <dpb1> teward: yay!
[16:35] <teward> (I literally have an upload 'prepped' if it passes sbuild fails)
[16:35] <teward> s/fails//
[16:35] <cpaelzer> nice
[16:35] <ahasenack> cpaelzer: you had something here?
[16:35] <cpaelzer> yeah
[16:35]  * dpb1 notices the fire is getting low, good time for open discussion
[16:35]  * teward tosses more logs on the fire.
[16:35] <cpaelzer> we gave some more content to
[16:35] <teward> :P
[16:36] <cpaelzer> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase
[16:36] <cpaelzer> There was he suggestion that the better we define that the more we can have:
[16:36] <cpaelzer> 1. agreement how we actually do things - yeah
[16:36] <cpaelzer> 2. give other people a chance to help us
[16:36] <cpaelzer> Please anyone who can give it a review and improvment
[16:36] <cpaelzer> we can then use that if we get requests to help our triaging, backlog clearing, ...
[16:36] <dpb1> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase
[16:37] <cpaelzer> along that there is another change to discuss
[16:37] <cpaelzer> since the Team sprint we report all expiring backlog
[16:37] <dpb1> #help please review https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase esp. triage section
[16:37] <cpaelzer> the list is so long that nobody tackles the remaining bugs
[16:37] <cpaelzer> and it is discouraging being on triage schedule
[16:38] <cpaelzer> rbasak: brought up (thanks!) that this is just the same again we had with triaging at all
[16:38] <cpaelzer> there we made a list of all the backlog we have
[16:38] <cpaelzer> and picked them one by one as we could afford to do so
[16:38] <cpaelzer> in that mindset I have prepared a few things
[16:38] <cpaelzer> our current backlog that we as the Team need to clear
[16:38] <cpaelzer> #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16CTKVQUjG78xi527_68uN4kVQ2EVYo6T7pFGouVwL_k/edit?ts=57abafba#gid=734042816
[16:38] <cpaelzer> not sure this is public
[16:38]  * dpb1 looks
[16:38] <dpb1> oh goodness
[16:39] <cpaelzer> that is a new tab in the same gdoc that helped to clear the old backlog
[16:39] <cpaelzer> as painful as it is we need to clear that
[16:39] <dpb1> I opened up view access
[16:39] <cpaelzer> please each of us pick a few and get them done in the context as described on the wiki
[16:39] <cpaelzer> ok dpb1
[16:40] <cpaelzer> if that is ok there is another extension
[16:40] <cpaelzer> #link https://github.com/powersj/ubuntu-server-triage/pull/13
[16:40] <cpaelzer> that is a MP to the triaging tool we use
[16:40] <dpb1> #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16CTKVQUjG78xi527_68uN4kVQ2EVYo6T7pFGouVwL_k/edit?ts=57abafba#gid=734042816
[16:40] <dpb1> #link https://github.com/powersj/ubuntu-server-triage/pull/13
[16:40] <cpaelzer> if merged, it will ensure you only see "YOUR" expiring bugs
[16:40] <cpaelzer> so if today is your triage day
[16:40] <cpaelzer> then you'll see all server-next expiring 60 from today
[16:40] <cpaelzer> ...
[16:40] <cpaelzer> but if you miss to complete your duty today it won't be punted to the next member the next day
[16:41] <cpaelzer> on top the list is shorter and less discouraging
[16:41] <cpaelzer> any objections to the suggested change in tooling behaviour or how we hadnle the backlog?
[16:41]  * dpb1 recommends next time cpaelzer adds an agenda item for this "open disucssion"
[16:42] <cpaelzer> agreed
[16:42]  * cpaelzer begs all your pardon
[16:42] <dpb1> cpaelzer: I think it's good.  the wiki summarizes things well
[16:43] <cpaelzer> ok, lets keep track of picking from the backlog in the daily standup and sync on that next week here
[16:43] <cpaelzer> #action check progress on clearing expiration backlog (all of us)
[16:43] <meetingology> ACTION: check progress on clearing expiration backlog (all of us)
[16:43] <dpb1> hm
[16:43] <cpaelzer> nice that command seems to work from me - interesting
[16:43] <dpb1> can I adjust action items?
[16:43] <cpaelzer> very unexpected
[16:44]  * dpb1 "fixes"
[16:44] <ahasenack> I like your QA approach :)
[16:44] <ahasenack> "this shouldn't work, let's try it"
[16:44] <dpb1> #action add agenda item for next week to check on triage progress.
[16:44] <meetingology> ACTION: add agenda item for next week to check on triage progress.
[16:44] <dpb1> dpb1^^^ ugh
[16:44] <dpb1> ok
[16:44] <dpb1> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
[16:44] <cpaelzer> ahasenack: that is how you test, be mean to programs :-)
[16:44] <ahasenack> +1
[16:45] <dpb1> Next meeting Tuesday, 2017-06-27 at 1600 UTC, chair will be ahasenack
[16:45] <ahasenack> hoy
[16:45] <dpb1> #info Next meeting Tuesday, 2017-06-27 at 1600 UTC, chair will be ahasenack
[16:46] <dpb1> and that's all folks, thanks for participating
[16:46] <dpb1> #endmeeting
[16:46] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 20 16:46:10 2017 UTC.
[16:46] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-06-20-15.59.moin.txt
[16:46] <cpaelzer> thanks dpb1 for leading our campfire
[16:46] <powersj> thx dpb1
[16:46] <ahasenack> cheers
[16:46]  * dpb1 kicks dirt over the coals
[16:46] <dpb1> o/