[00:30] <chris062689> Is this the official ubuntu touch channel?
[00:31] <chris062689> Installing on my Galaxy Nexus, used the script on the wiki and now it's sitting in fastboot with the android model spinning it's blue orb with the blue bar frozen about 70%
[00:32] <chris062689> Hahaha, nevermind, it just took a very long time.
[00:32] <chris062689> I just booted :D
[00:32] <chris062689> Touchscreen is unresponsive? :<
[00:32] <lilstevie> chris062689, #ubuntu-phone is
[00:32] <chris062689> Thanks.
[08:29] <ax562> is this the right room for ubuntu touch phone?
[08:30] <ax562> or ubuntu os phone....what is the official name?
[08:31] <ax562> hello?
[08:36] <ax562> so anyone alive in here?
[08:42] <ax562> zzzzzz
[20:13] <mrgoodcat> msg nickserv identify fsmor;06
[20:14] <mrgoodcat> help set
[20:15] <mrgoodcat> haha accidentally posted my password... changing...
[20:15] <mrgoodcat> is anybody else having trouble with phablet-dev-bootstrap?
[20:16] <mrgoodcat> i'm getting "the remote end hung up unexpectedly" and the download fails
[20:17] <k1l> what does trouble mean?
[20:21] <k1l> mrgoodcat: seems like server issues.
[20:21] <mrgoodcat> i can't seem to download from github
[20:22] <mrgoodcat> phablet-dev-bootstrap makes the .repo directory only, doesn't actually download anything
[20:22] <mrgoodcat> as far as i can tell
[20:23] <mrgoodcat> or is everything in the .repo directory/
[20:23] <k1l> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?s=73b2f42c6214fd08f8175ad2282f156f&p=38368377  seems you are not the only one
[20:23] <mrgoodcat> yup thats the thread i'm already reading
[20:23] <mrgoodcat> could be a server issue i guess
[20:23] <k1l> mrgoodcat: maybe someone in #ubuntu-phone knows if that can be solved


[00:00] <phinze> right that makes sense; the behavior i describe above is what's confusing to me
[00:00] <lifeless> oh right
[00:00] <lifeless> so the reason that happens is this:
[00:00] <phinze> our entire testsuite spits out to stdout
[00:00] <phinze> if i'm not making any silly mistakes
[00:00] <lifeless> bzr+ssh invokes bzr on the server by doing 'ssh host bzr'
[00:00] <phinze> sure
[00:01] <lifeless> so the bzr on the server, when it writes to stdout, the local bzr gets that on the socket read fd
[00:01] <phinze> right that makes sense
[00:01] <lifeless> when something on the server writes to stderr, ssh cpatures that and sends it back to the client, where it goes to the ssh's std err
[00:01] <lifeless> which bzr hasn't redirected
[00:01] <phinze> ahh so it must be stderr that is making it through
[00:02] <phinze> so i might be able to exploit that behavior to get my testsuite output shown to the user? :)
[00:03] <lifeless> phinze: yes, as long as you don't start serving bzr+hhtp ;)
[00:03] <phinze> so basically add 2>&1 on the end of my commands and i'm right as rain
[00:04] <phinze> err
[00:04] <phinze> other way around
[00:05] <phinze> hah, beautiful
[00:05] <lifeless> phinze: I'm going to file a bug to capture this requirement
[00:05] <phinze> lifeless: you've been incredibly helpful, great explanations
[00:06] <lifeless> its one we deferred in getting streaming up
[00:06] <lifeless> and it would be lovely to have some sort of answer for bzr+http
[00:06] <lifeless> phinze: anytime
[00:06] <phinze> yeah an official way of handling this would be better
[00:07] <phinze> awesome; based off james_w's code i now have a 30 line "poor man's PQM"
[00:08] <james_w> phinze: perhaps the plugin should do that
[00:08] <phinze> james_w: where 'that' == the output redirection?
[00:09] <james_w> yeah
[00:10] <phinze> well it doesn't look like subprocess.Popen has a clear way of doing that
[00:10] <phinze> can't just set stdout=subprocess.STDERR (STDERR not defined)
[00:11] <phinze> stdout can be set to an int though
[00:11] <makiolo> bazaar is down ?
[00:11] <phinze>             elif isinstance(stderr, int): errwrite = msvcrt.get_osfhandle(stderr)
[00:12] <makiolo> can download ? bzr branch lp:wiithon i have timeout
[00:14] <phinze> makiolo: i branched that with no problems
[00:14] <makiolo> ok ...
[00:14] <makiolo> thx
[00:14] <phinze> sure
[00:16] <phinze> james_w: this works, but there must be a cleaner way? subprocess.call(command, cwd=export_dir, shell=True, stdout=2)
[00:16] <james_w> phinze: you can set stdout=suprocess.STDIN though
[00:16] <james_w> err
[00:16] <james_w> nonsense
[00:16] <james_w> you can set stderr=subprocess.STDOUT
[00:16] <james_w> which is what we want isn't it?
[00:17] <james_w> oh, no, I see now
[00:17] <phinze> james_w: no, re above discussion w/ lifeless... stdout is interpreted as server communication, but stderr makes it all the way through
[00:17] <lifeless> james_w: there isn't a way to send the data via bzr+ssh atm
[00:17] <james_w> phinze:
[00:18] <phinze> so stdout=STDERR is what i want... but is STDERR=2 set somewhere in python for me to reference?
[00:18] <james_w> so we want to write nothing on stdout?
[00:18] <james_w> and everything on stdin
[00:18] <phinze> as everything is working beautifully now with stdout=2... test suite runs; i see output; and if it passes, my push is accepted
[00:18] <james_w> that's possible, but it's a pain
[00:18] <phinze> s/stdin/sterr yes
[00:19] <phinze> sigh: STDERR
[00:19] <james_w> err, yeah, I don't know what's wrong with me tonight :-)
[00:19] <phinze> typing plague
[00:19] <james_w> redirect stderr -> stdout by calling with stderr=subprocess.STDOUT
[00:19] <james_w> so that both streams are interleaved as you want
[00:19] <james_w> then capture stdout
[00:20] <james_w> with stdout=subprocess.PIPE
[00:20] <phinze> right, but stdout is not sent across the wire currently; bzr+ssh offers no way of getting it though
[00:20] <james_w> so that stdout isn't sent and you don't get the failure
[00:20] <phinze> yeah i tried that but then i get no output on the terminal
[00:20] <james_w> then manually output stdout on stderr
[00:20] <phinze> i have no way of accessing subprocess.PIPE from my remote bzr client... so i get no output
[00:21] <james_w> by reading from proc.stdout and using "info" on each line
[00:21] <phinze> well then it would be all in one chunk wouldn't it?
[00:21] <james_w> or "warning" perhaps
[00:21] <james_w> both from bzrlib.trace
[00:21] <james_w> nope, you can read per-line
[00:21] <phinze> i like how it's working now because as the testsuite runs i see the output
[00:21] <james_w> for line in subprocess.stdout:
[00:21] <james_w>     trace.warning(line)
[00:21] <phinze> but i have to wait for subprocess.call to complete
[00:21] <james_w> retcode = subprocess.wait()
[00:22] <james_w> the other way would be to redirect both to a pipe, and then select on the two filehandles, and "info" the stdout, and "warning" the stderr, so that "commit -q" suppresses the normal output
[00:23] <phinze> ahh then use subprocess.Popen() rather than subprocess.call() ..?
[00:23] <james_w> your stdout=2 might be a simple way to do it, but I don't know if that would work on windows
[00:23] <james_w> yeah Popen
[00:23] <james_w> perhaps sys.stderr would be more robust than "2"
[00:23] <phinze> yeah you're thinking in terms of doing it the right way rather than my hacking things together :)
[00:24] <phinze> will sys.stderr be coerced into an integer?
[00:25] <phinze> suppose i can check
[00:25] <phinze> yes, yes it will
[00:26] <jam> phinze: sys.stderr.fileno() if you need it
[00:26] <jam> But Popen() already knows about fileno() for file objects
[00:26] <james_w> hi jam
[00:26] <jam> hi james_w
[00:27] <phinze> jam look what james_w gifted me: http://paste.ubuntu.com/155612/
[00:28] <jam> phinze: poor mans PQM, looks good
[00:29] <phinze> we're just cleaning up the input redirection
[00:29] <phinze> works with no redirection on local machine, but over bzr+ssh stdout of testsuite iinterpreted as smart server output over wire and barfs
[00:30] <phinze> can take advantage of the fact that stderr makes it all the way through because of ssh
[00:30] <lifeless> james_w: info on the server won't do the right thing
[00:30] <james_w> oh, of course not
[00:30] <jam> I thought there was a way to suppress stdin, etc
[00:30] <jam> but I don't see it specifically
[00:32] <jam> phinze: well, stdout *is* being redirected via ssh
[00:32] <jam> it just happens that we listed to the ssh stdout locally as bzr+ssh return values :)
[00:32] <jam> and don't directly listen to stderr
[00:32] <phinze> exactly, so it's a bit of a hack that pushing output through stderr happens to work :()
[00:32] <lifeless> using stderr today is your best bet
[00:32] <lifeless> I've filed a bug to enhance things to improve on that
[00:33] <phinze> lifeless: can you link?
[00:33] <jam> phinze: I would say that you could use 'close_fds' to force stdin to be closed
[00:33] <jam> however, that raises exceptions on windows (if you care)
[00:33] <phinze> jam: why do i care about stdin in this case?
[00:34] <jam> phinze: I would set it to "/dev/null" so that anything that wants input aborts immediately
[00:34] <jam> rather than hanging indefinitely
[00:34] <jam> I also see stuff like: http://paste.ubuntu.com/155618/
[00:35] <jam> so you may not really care about windows
[00:35] <phinze> ahh gotchya, because we're executing an arbitrarily specified command
[00:37]  * phinze indeed does not care about windows... but wouldn't mind supporting them if it's easy :)
[00:37] <lifeless> jam: stdin=PIPE; process.stdin.close() is better
[00:37] <jam> lifeless: sure
[00:37] <jam> I thought there was a way to do 'stdin=NULL'
[00:37] <jam> but I think stdin.close() is the best you can get
[00:38] <jam> phinze: for your case, it would mean using Popen() rather than .call()
[00:38] <jam> the other odd thing
[00:38] <jam> you can pass "stderr=subprocess.STDOUT"
[00:39] <jam> but there doesn't seem to be a "stdout=subprocess.STDERR"
[00:39] <jam> weird
[00:39] <phinze> yeah i know isn't it?
[00:39] <jam> as that is probably what you would want over sys.stderr
[00:39] <phinze> yeah i went down that same path
[00:39] <lifeless> jam: was my index building thoughts mail useful to you?
[00:40] <jam> lifeless: so I'm not sure that it is N log N, I have the feeling it is N*C where C is the number of entries in a single page
[00:41] <jam> I did like the info about how many keys we read, etc.
[00:41] <jam> as for checking 'late'
[00:41] <jam> I think we need to check as we go in at least the local dict
[00:42] <jam> and then we could check during the recombine step
[00:42] <lifeless> we currently check the local dict
[00:42] <jam> lifeless: right, we currently check both the local dict and the spilled
[00:42] <lifeless> jam: actually we don't
[00:42] <lifeless> jam: add_node checks self._keys, not the spilled indices
[00:43] <lifeless> jam: its definitely superlinear, N*C would be linear with a high constant
[00:43] <jam> lifeless: _insert_record_stream calls add_records() which calls _get_entries(keys)
[00:43] <jam> which goes through iter_entries(keys)
[00:43] <lifeless> I am quite sure its NlogN with a large down-scale factor
[00:43] <jam> Which *definitely* checks everything
[00:43] <phinze> jam: better? http://paste.ubuntu.com/155622/
[00:44] <lifeless> jam: yes, thats in how we use the index though, I'm talking specifically about the contract the index offers
[00:44] <jam> phinze: looks good to me
[00:44] <lifeless> jam: I think it would be ok if it *either* errors in add_node on dupes, *or* errors in finish on dupes
[00:44] <phinze> jam: danke :)
[00:45] <lifeless> jam: erroring *sometimes* in add_node and *sometimes* in finish, depending on whether the dupe has been paged out would be odd to work with and surprising for users of the index layer
[00:45] <jam> well, if you wanted to error always during finish
[00:46] <jam> you would have to check during add, and queue it for a later error
[00:46] <jam> since otherwise you are just doing dict[key] = value
[00:46] <jam> and it just overwrites the previous value
[00:50] <lifeless> jam: thats true. Ok, scratch that, erroring in both add_node and finish, depending on when the collision is found
[00:52] <SamB> jelmer: thanks for the help, btw
[00:53] <phinze> thanks all
[01:00]  * SamB wishes someone would bother to vote for http://bundlebuggy.aaronbentley.com/project/bzr/request/<E1LupWj-0005Cp-WD%40hydrogen> -- it just adds a sentence to an error message!
[01:10] <jfroy> jelmer: sorry that I pinged you and then dropped off the face of the earth. I've been debugging a kernel panic all day :p
[01:10] <SamB> jfroy: on real hardware?
[01:11] <jfroy> SamB: yeah, graphics drivers
[01:11] <jfroy> (my day job, etc. etc.)
[01:11] <SamB> not fun :-(
[01:11] <jfroy> loads of fun :p
[01:11] <SamB> well ... I don't find it fun to have to debug stuff like that running on real hardware ...
[01:11] <jfroy> Eh, it's OK with 2 computers
[01:11] <SamB> maybe if you have an ICE
[01:12] <SamB> or, okay, a kernel debugger
[01:12] <jfroy> yeah, using our kernel debugging facilities
[01:12] <jfroy> I haven't been able to resurrect a kernel yet though :p
[01:12] <jfroy> It's a feat only the masters know the secrets of :p
[01:18] <SamB> I can't even do that for DOS
[01:18] <fullermd> DOS can't even do it for DOS   :p
[01:18] <SamB> (not that it's worth bothering ;-)
[01:18] <SamB> (rebooting gives better results anyway ;-)
[01:19]  * SamB wonders if there are any kernel debuggers of the sort jfroy uses for DOS ...
[01:21] <fullermd> You don't need a kernel debugger for DOS.  It's, what, like 20 lines of code?  You find bugs by inspection.
[01:21] <lifeless> fullermd: you can get a lot in 20 lines of forth :)
[01:21] <SamB> fullermd: er, not the one I looked at!
[01:22] <SamB> of course, that one was written in C
[01:22] <fullermd> Well, maybe later versions are longer, after they added all those decadent extra features like directories...
[01:22] <lifeless> jam: is phinx @ the drizzle con?
[01:23] <SamB> fullermd: what's the point of using a DOS if it doesn't give you directories ... okay, sure, I suppose file names are nice ...
[01:23] <fullermd> Well, that was sorta my meta-point   ;)
[01:23] <SamB> but really, I have never in my life used DOS 1!
[01:23] <lifeless> original disks were too small to bother with directories
[01:23] <lifeless> waste of disk space
[01:24]  * SamB is still bothered by the fixed-size root dir in FAT
[01:25] <fullermd> Yeah.  Only so much room in 360k to put stuff.  Heck, I've got directories bigger than that now...
[01:28] <SamB> fullermd: you mean just the directory entries occupy more space than that, I assume ?
[01:31] <Peng_> I've got a 1,024,000k directory entry from when a program spammed my /tmp dir. :D
[01:32] <Peng_> Err, byte, not kilobyte, I suppose. :P
[01:33] <SamB> jelmer: shouldnsvn-set-revprops
[01:33] <SamB> er.
[01:33] <SamB> jelmer: shouldn't svn-set-revprops be in "bzr help svn"?
[01:55] <wgrant> SamB: Only FAT1[26] have a fixed root dir size.
[02:02] <SamB> wgrant: okay, sure. I was reading a book that didn't talk about any version of DOS more recent than 3.x, so ...
[02:03] <wgrant> SamB: Ah, that could do it.
[02:56] <lifeless> spiv: I'm still futzing around with refactoring the start of push
[02:56] <lifeless> its rather unsatisfying
[04:54] <lamalex> so i just pushed from a branch right into our trunk, instead of merging my branch and then pushing
[04:55] <lamalex> is there a way i can revert this?
[04:55] <jfroy> jelmer: I just had a thought.
[04:55] <jfroy> I am fairly certain I did an uncommit on the branch I am having trouble with.
[04:56] <jfroy> Could it be the root cause of the missing revision problem?
[04:59] <fullermd> lamalex: Find the rev that should be its head, and use push or pull to set it.
[05:00] <lamalex> fullermd: can you give me example syntax?
[05:01] <fullermd> lamalex: "cd $TRUNK ; bzr pull --overwrite -r$OLD_HEAD ."  or  "cd mybranch ; bzr push --overwrite -r$OLD_HEAD $TRUNK"
[05:02] <fullermd> Then set append_revisions_only in the $TRUNK/.bzr/branch/branch.conf to guardrail it a bit in the future   8-}
[05:03] <lamalex> :)
[05:06] <lamalex> fullermd: thank you!
[07:01] <lifeless> later folks
[07:59] <BasicOSX> lifeless made a funny on the mailing list :-)
[07:59] <lifeless> I did?
[08:00] <BasicOSX> response to my final vs rc3
[08:00] <BasicOSX> I don't think additional testing will make this bug more severe. :)
[08:00] <lifeless> right
[08:00] <BasicOSX> 2am that's funny to me for some reason
[08:00] <lifeless> :)
[08:00] <BasicOSX> ;-P
[08:00] <lifeless> it was ironic I guess
[08:57] <jelmer> jfroy: it shouldn't but I guess it could
[08:58] <jelmer> jfroy: did you push the original branch (from before the uncommit) anywhere?
[09:12] <jfroy> jelmer: urg sorry, just noticed your messages
[09:13] <jfroy> I don't remember if I pushed the branch to svn before doing the uncommit or after
[09:17] <jelmer> jfroy: so you didn't use anything like --overwrite when pushing?
[09:17] <jfroy> I don't believe so.
[09:41] <jfroy> jelmer: so in any case, if you need data to figure it out, just let me know.
[09:43] <jelmer> jfroy: Ok
[09:51] <SUPERSONICXX5> HOLAS
[09:52] <SUPERSONICXX5> ALGUIEN ME HECHA UNA MANO
[09:52] <SUPERSONICXX5> NO PUEDO ENTRAR EN NINGUN CHAT CASI, OPERA ME DICE QUE AHY UN ERROR CON UN DDL
[09:52] <SUPERSONICXX5> FIREFOX NO LOS CARGA
[09:52] <SUPERSONICXX5> GOOGLE CRHOME O COMO SEA VALE CALLAMPA
[09:53] <SUPERSONICXX5> Y EXPLORER ME SACA, DICE ID NO VALIDA
[09:53] <huf> are you for real?
[10:05] <LarstiQ> jelmer: no, the bzr-svn at the time I filed the bug, with recent improvements I hope it is all fixed now, but I'll let you know when I try again
[10:46] <jelmer> LarstiQ: I suspect so
[10:54] <fullermd> Furrfu.  Remember those wonderful days when everybody's on vacation and the list is silent?
[10:55] <LarstiQ> fullermd: I can't keep track anymore, at 1910 unread now :/
[10:56] <fullermd> However did we survive without 30 rounds of "No, see, it does XYZ."  "You're wrong, it does exactly what you said."  "Yes, that's my point, it does what I said."  "No, you're blowing FUD, it does exactly what you said."  [..........]
[10:57] <yogsototh> Hi all! What is the good way to handle this? make a modifications m1 and commit then a modification m2 and commit in branch B. How to push only modifications m2 on a branch A?
[10:57] <yogsototh> I already made the error not making an m2 branch
[10:58] <fullermd> In a strict sense, you can't.  The nearest you can do is cherrypick it over with merge.  There's no ancestral link behind that, though.
[10:58] <yogsototh> so bad! Thanks fullermd
[10:59] <LarstiQ> or well, rebase
[10:59] <fullermd> Or use a loom.  That's just like rebase, right?
[10:59] <LarstiQ> fullermd: tsk :P
[10:59]  * LarstiQ read part of that thread yesterday
[11:00] <fullermd> Did you read at least 2 mails of it?
[11:00] <LarstiQ> yes
[11:00] <fullermd> You pretty much read the whole thing then.
[11:01] <yogsototh> ok I'll look for that, thanks
[11:01] <fullermd> yogsototh: Cherrypicking with merge is almost certainly what you want.  In this case, rebase is probably just a really roundable way of doing exactly that.
[11:03] <yogsototh> I see, I can also play with bzr diff and bzr patch I suppose. Thanks
[11:04] <fullermd> That'll end up in the same place as the cherrypick.  Using merge will be a bit simpler.
[11:04] <yogsototh> Yep
[13:57] <ricardokirkner> guys.. I am trying to push to an svn repo , and I am getting a traceback
[13:57] <ricardokirkner> http://ricardokirkner.pastebin.com/d61d26395
[13:58] <ricardokirkner> can anyone help me figure out why this is happening?
[14:01] <lifeless> jelmer: ^ this one is for you
[14:01] <lifeless> jelmer: do you highlight on 'svn' yet?
[14:11] <sohmestra> how do I display the revid for a given revision? bzr log --verbose doesn't show it. I'm using bzr 1.13
[14:13] <LarstiQ> lifeless: I think he stopped
[14:13] <LarstiQ> ricardokirkner: are the bzr branch and svn repo public btw?
[14:14] <ricardokirkner> LarstiQ, no, sorry... they are internal to our company
[14:14] <LarstiQ> ricardokirkner: k
[14:14] <ricardokirkner> if you need any info, tell me and I will provide it if I can
[14:14] <LarstiQ> ricardokirkner: just enough to reproduce it :)
[14:15] <LarstiQ> ricardokirkner: are there merged revisions in what you are trying to push?
[14:15] <LarstiQ> ricardokirkner: what does bzr think the revno for the local bzr branch and what is in svn are?
[14:16] <ricardokirkner> LarstiQ, yes, there are merged revisions in there
[14:16] <jelmer> ricardokirkner: one sec
[14:16] <jelmer> ricardokirkner: please file a bug
[14:16] <ricardokirkner> jelmer, alright...
[14:18] <ricardokirkner> jelmer, bug on bzr, or bzr-svn?
[14:18] <jelmer> ricardokirkner: bzr-svn
[14:18] <jelmer> ricardokirkner: actually
[14:18] <ricardokirkner> right
[14:18] <jelmer> ricardokirkner: this is fixed in a recent version of bzr-svn
[14:19] <ricardokirkner> jelmer, the thing is 0.5.3 (what I am using) is the latest version compatible with bzr 1.13 (the latest release version of bzr)
[14:19] <ricardokirkner> for 0.6 I need 1.14
[14:19] <ricardokirkner> which is rc
[14:19] <ricardokirkner> should I post the bug anyway?
[14:19] <jelmer> ricardokirkner: 0.5.4 is for 1.14
[14:22] <ricardokirkner> jelmer, so, in order to avoid this issue I have to use bzr 1.14?
[14:23] <jelmer> ricardokirkner: Yes, it looks similar to a bug I fixed for 0.5.4
[14:24] <lifeless> sohmestra: log --show-ids
[14:24] <sohmestra> lifeless: thanks
[14:24] <ricardokirkner> mhhh... I'll try to test it using 1.14
[14:24] <ricardokirkner> and let you know
[14:24] <ricardokirkner> thx
[14:28] <jelmer> lifeless: no, I don't do svn highlights, it would be annoying for #svn-dev :-)
[14:37] <LarstiQ> ricardokirkner: I'd like to know if that fixes it for you too, it looks similar to something I have trouble reproducing but my colleagues run into from time to time.
[14:37] <phinze> so can bzr-email be used in a hook on a shared branch or is it only for client-based hooking
[14:37]  * phinze knows about bzr-hookless-email as well but is evaluating the options
[14:38] <LarstiQ> phinze: afaik, bzr-email will be used on a remote branch regardeless of client installs _if_ you are using the smartserver and have email configured for that branch
[14:38] <LarstiQ> phinze: but not if people use transports like sftp://
[14:39] <phinze> LarstiQ: cool; my group uses bzr+ssh so i think we should be good if i install it systemwide on the shared server then
[14:39] <ricardokirkner> LarstiQ, as soon as I finish testing I let you know
[14:39] <LarstiQ> ricardokirkner: thanks
[14:39] <LarstiQ> phinze: I admit to not knowing exactly how to configure it
[14:40] <LarstiQ> phinze: but branch.conf I'd think
[14:41] <phinze> LarstiQ: yeah that's my guess... i'll try it out
[14:41] <phinze> james_w: ping
[14:42] <james_w> hi phinze
[14:43] <phinze> hey, you interested in throwing bzr-testrunner out to the world?
[14:43] <james_w> sure
[14:43] <phinze> i'm not well versed in lp-fu, but i assume it wouldn't be too difficult?
[14:43] <james_w> maybe it should have a better name first though?
[14:43] <james_w> yeah, it's easy to set up a project for it
[14:44] <phinze> yeah i'm at a loss for names
[14:45] <phinze> bzr-sentinel, bzr-branchguard, bzr-guardian
[14:45] <phinze> thinking something more generic to imply that testsuite is not required but any command?
[14:45] <ricardokirkner> jelmer, LarstiQ no luck. I tried with 1.14rc2 and bzr-svn 0.5.4 and 0.6
[14:45] <ricardokirkner> and neither solves the push issue
[14:45] <jelmer> ricardokirkner: please file a bug
[14:45] <ricardokirkner> I do that now
[14:46] <jelmer> ricardokirkner:  thanks
[14:46] <james_w> bzr-canary
[14:47] <james_w> also, I'm not sure if the shell-hooks plugin makes it unnecessary
[14:49] <james_w> phinze: have you put it in a branch?
[14:58] <ricardokirkner> jelmer, the bug is https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-svn/+bug/365108
[14:58] <ricardokirkner> thanks for the support
[15:02] <ivan> why does switching branches and switching back crap all over my working tree?
[15:03] <ivan> http://rafb.net/p/tUZ9c479.html
[15:03] <ivan> maybe because the branch is old :(
[15:04] <ivan> and now that I switched back I have all these conflicts, http://rafb.net/p/bfiY8c60.html
[15:09] <phinze> james_w: just locally... latest version is http://paste.ubuntu.com/155933/
[15:09] <james_w> phinze: cool, thanks
[15:09] <james_w> phinze: bzr-testrunner seems to be the best name to me, what do you think?
[15:10] <phinze> yeah straightforward
[15:10]  * phinze looks at shell-hooks quickly
[15:12] <james_w> probably still useful to save every script having to implement the "checkout the tree" bit
[15:12] <james_w> and the redirection
[15:13] <phinze> yeah plus shell-hooks sends a bunch of arguments along
[15:13] <phinze> yeah i think it's still worthwhile to throw out there
[15:16] <james_w> phinze: https://launchpad.net/bzr-testrunner
[15:16] <james_w> please push your branch to lp:~bzr/bzr-testrunner/trunk
[15:20] <phinze> james_w: will do
[15:26] <Stavros> hello
[15:26] <Stavros> i am trying to merge from a diverged branch, how can i see the uncommited changes i had before the merge?
[15:27] <jelmer> ricardokirkner: do you have a way to reproduce this bug?
[15:33] <phinze> james_w: Paul Hinze is not a member of Bazaar Developers...
[15:35] <phinze> james_w: looking into https://launchpad.net/~bzr/+mentoring ... ~= "fix a bug to join the club"?
[15:36] <james_w> a new team for this plugin seems like overkill
[15:37] <phinze> i would hope to contribute enough to be considered for Bazaar Developers membership... but i have not yet
[15:37] <james_w> I could push the branch up, then merge your changes as needed until you are a member
[15:37] <james_w> how would that suit you?
[15:40] <phinze> james_w: works for me... lp:~phinze/+junk/bzr-testrunner
[15:54] <lifeless> a new team is fine
[15:54] <lifeless> teams are cheap
[15:54] <lifeless> and its appropriate if phinze is maintainer
[15:55] <lifeless> names wise, I'd suggest bzr-testoncommit or something
[15:55] <lifeless> testrunner is ok, but perhaps it can be improved
[15:55] <lifeless> *night all*
[15:55] <james_w> night
[15:55] <james_w> and it's not just commits
[15:55] <lifeless> phinze: oh the bug number - Ididn't have that before, just look at bzr's new bugs
[15:56] <lifeless> james_w: I know that
[16:03] <ricardokirkner> jelmer, sort of... I don't know when this was first introduced, but since then, (almost) every push crashes
[16:03] <ricardokirkner> jelmer, I think at some point I merged changes from two different branches and  then tried to push them to the svn repo
[16:04] <ricardokirkner> and after that the problems started, but I am not entirely sure about that
[16:13] <jelmer> ricardokirkner: is it a public branch?
[16:14] <ricardokirkner>  jelmer no... sorry .. it's customer private code
[16:14] <ricardokirkner> if I can run the tests you need, just tell me
[16:14] <ricardokirkner> and I tell you back the results
[16:37] <james_w> phinze: pushed as lp:bzr-testrunner. It should be added to http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrPlugins as well so that people can find it
[16:37] <james_w> do you want to do that?
[16:37] <phinze> james_w: awesome, thanks... yeah i can add it
[16:37] <james_w> cool, thanks
[16:40] <phinze> james_w: did you want to try and mess with a group as suggested by lifeless?  or just let me bother you with merge requests :)
[16:41] <james_w> I don't mind you bothering me, but we can set up a group if you want to be recognised as an author
[16:46] <phinze> https://launchpad.net/%7Ebzr-testrunner <-- james_w
[16:48] <james_w> thanks
[16:48] <james_w> all changed
[16:48] <james_w> you should have full access now
[16:49] <phinze> beautiful, ty
[16:58]  * SamB_irssi wonders what he should do with his debugger branch in the DOSEMU svn repository now that he's merged it back to trunk with bzr-svn
[16:59] <SamB_irssi> I want to make more debugger changes ... should I pull in trunk and make more, or delete and make a new branch, or what?
[17:01] <LarstiQ> disregarding svn backing, I'd pull trunk to debugger and then continue there
[17:01]  * SamB_irssi wonders if he should disregard svn backing
[17:06] <Kobaz> is there an unmerge?
[17:06]  * SamB_irssi wonders why sf.net isn't allowing svn:mergeinfo
[17:07] <LarstiQ> Kobaz: what would that do?
[17:07] <Kobaz> LarstiQ: undo the merge that was just done
[17:07] <LarstiQ> Kobaz: bzr revert?
[17:08] <SamB_irssi> what about the merge did you want to undo?
[17:08] <Kobaz> the whole thing?
[17:08] <LarstiQ> evening bialix
[17:08] <bialix> jam: are you here?
[17:08] <bialix> heyo LarstiQ
[17:09] <bialix> LarstiQ: how are you?
[17:10] <bialix> does anybody knows about new dependency in 1.14: pylzma. I assume it's optional. Is it correct?
[17:11] <LarstiQ> bialix: mistakenly thought it was no longer cold weather with the sun, and thus caught a cold
[17:11]  * LarstiQ could be better
[17:11] <LarstiQ> bialix: how about you?
[17:11] <bialix> ah
[17:12] <bialix> too much work. and my daughter going to the school this year, I have to help her
[17:14] <bialix> do you know when the jam appears here usually this week?
[17:19] <asac> lifeless: hi. now that gnome moved to git, is there any bzr-git in sight?
[17:19] <bialix> https://launchpad.net/bzr-git
[17:20] <LarstiQ> bialix: ah, primary school?
[17:20]  * LarstiQ would expect jam awake by now
[17:20] <LarstiQ> bialix: I expect pylzma is optional too
[17:20] <asac> how good does that work?
[17:21] <LarstiQ> asac: not as good as bzr-svn, but better than bzr-hg
[17:22] <bialix> LarstiQ: yes, primary school
[17:23] <LarstiQ> bialix: cool, I imagine that's very exiting for her?
[17:23] <asac> LarstiQ: hmm. guess i will have to try ... thanks
[17:23] <bialix> LarstiQ: the school today seems much complex than in my time. sometimes I think it's much harder to get to the school than to University
[17:23] <LarstiQ> bialix: woha. How much complexity can there be in primary schooling?
[17:23] <LarstiQ> apparently more than I think
[17:24] <LarstiQ> asac: I haven't used it, so I can't really make definitive statements.
[17:24] <bialix> LarstiQ: may be it's my country made it so complex. or may be I am
[17:24] <LarstiQ> asac: I know people use it and developt it, but yes, trying seems best
[17:24] <bialix> LarstiQ: there is something like entrance examination
[17:24] <LarstiQ> bialix: well, I don't have kids yet, so maybe I'm just ignorant :)
[17:25]  * LarstiQ blinks
[17:25] <bialix> yep
[17:25] <LarstiQ> bialix: can that be failed? And if so, what is one supposed to do then
[17:26] <bialix> LarstiQ: yes, there is very high chances to fail the examination in the good school. of course men who have enough money can ignore this
[17:27] <bialix> and there is less good schools there
[17:27] <LarstiQ> bialix: ah, so the implication is that you have to go to a less good school?
[17:27] <LarstiQ> right
[17:28] <bialix> things are too complex, or at least seem so. in m time we go to the school 10 years. now it's 12 years
[17:29] <bialix> things are changed
[17:29] <bialix> hi Gary
[17:40] <bialix> it seems jam traveling these days. (sigh) ok, will wait for his response in ML
[17:41]  * bialix waves
[17:51] <bialix> I have questions about http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/bzr.dev/developers/plugin-api.html
[17:52] <bialix> especially about section "Plugin metadata before installation". why for it supposed to be?
[18:04] <SamB_irssi> jelmer: can bzr-svn put in svn:mergeinfo properties retroactively ?
[18:16]  * SamB_irssi wishes bzr viz was as good as gitk :-(
[18:18] <luks> what features are you missing?
[18:19] <SamB_irssi> well, it doesn't seem to have great graph layout
[18:19] <luks> maybe you should try bzr qlog
[18:32] <SamB_irssi> luks: it looks like that would require too much disk space to install
[18:36] <garyvdm> Hi bialix
[18:36] <luks> SamB_irssi: let me guess, gentoo user? :)
[18:38] <ricardokirkner> jelmer, regarding the svn push bug... I have some update
[18:38] <ricardokirkner> sometimes the push is performed correctly (although bzr crashes) -- I can see the commit done in svn
[18:39] <ricardokirkner> sometimes the push is done partially -- only a few revisions are committed and then it breaks
[18:39] <ricardokirkner> for example, the last push I did was submitted correctly, but bzr crashes
[18:39] <ricardokirkner> I will wait until there is something to update my branch, and after a pull, it should work again
[20:21] <phinze> so... rails has some fixtures in its tests that ensure that some of its functions pull in templates properly
[20:21] <phinze> so it has files called like template.erb~ and template.erb~1~
[20:22] <phinze> will bzr clean-tree --detritus nuke those?
[20:23] <garyvdm> I don't know, but you can test with --dry-run
[20:59] <sevenseeker> I just updated bzr, subvertpy, and bzr-svn to the latest via easy_install, but when trying to add a file to my local working copy I receive:
[20:59] <sevenseeker> zr: ERROR: The API for "<module 'bzrlib' from '/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/site-packages/bzr-1.14rc2-py2.6-macosx-10.5-i386.egg/bzrlib/__init__.pyc'>" is not compatible with "(1, 12, 0)". It supports versions "(1, 13, 0)" to "(1, 14, 0)"
[21:01] <james_w> sevenseeker: it sounds like that bzr-svn is too old for that bzr
[21:03] <sevenseeker> according to http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrForeignBranches/Subversion 0.5.4 works with 1.14, and that is what I have
[21:03] <sevenseeker> maybe it is just a config bug, I will make a backup and try editing the reqs
[21:05] <james_w> do you by any chance have two copies of bzr-svn installed?
[21:05] <sevenseeker> checking
[21:13] <sevenseeker> ah drat... yes somehow I still have 0.5.3 lurking around
[21:55] <ja1> phinze: Also clean-tree prompts before deleting
[21:55] <ja1> (sorry if I'm coming late)
[21:55] <ja1> oh, and I think our pattern is ".~1~" not "~1~" so it may ignore them
[21:56] <ja1> that said, *who* uses ~1~ in real files ... :)
[21:56] <phinze> ja1: yeah turns out rails is inappropriately *preferring* those files when selecting templates
[21:56] <phinze> bad rails
[21:59]  * davidstrauss can't wait for the next Stephen Turnbull post to the mailing list.
[22:02] <phinze> we've got a bug open with the rails folks though... hopefully it will be fixed soon on their end
[22:35] <lamalex> Is there a thing in bzr that does something similar to git's url config shortening?
[22:36] <lamalex> like in git I can do git config --global url.git://git.gnome.org/.insteadof gnome: to use gnome: as the prefix for my gnome git branches
[22:36] <lamalex> this looks like lp: so I assume I can, but is this a specific plugin?
[22:36] <lamalex> im not sure what to google for
[22:36] <lifeless> hmm
[22:37] <lifeless> I *think* the url bookmarks thing can do that
[22:37] <lamalex> how does  launchpad do it?
[22:37] <lifeless> also plugins can, I know jamesh did one for gnome
[22:37] <lifeless> lamalex: the launchpad plugin registers with the bzr directory service provider api
[22:38] <lifeless> lamalex: so it gets called into, and the plugin then does an xmlrpc lookup
[22:38] <lifeless> I'm not sure what to google for either :(
[22:39] <lifeless> jamesh may know if someone generalised/made configurable his plugin for gnome, he'll be up in about 3-4 hours
[22:40] <lamalex> lifeless: ok, so right now at least it's not a simple as it is with git
[22:40] <lamalex> ill look at the bookmarks plugin
[22:42] <mwhudson> it may be prejudice, but i'm not sure that git config line is entirely 'simple' :)
[22:44] <lamalex> mwhudson: but it appears to be simpler than in bzr
[22:44] <mwhudson> in some sense
[22:44] <mwhudson> yes
[22:44] <lamalex> and the git config line is pretty straight forward
[22:44] <lamalex> discoverable maybe not
[22:44] <mwhudson> more convenient, for sure
[22:44] <lamalex> but looking at the line it's clear what it does
[22:45] <lamalex> and zsh autocompletes git commands, so that helps
[22:45] <lamalex> including the config variables
[22:46] <lamalex> yah, i <3 bzr im not here to say bzr sucks git rules
[22:46] <mwhudson> that completion sounds nice :)
[22:46] <lamalex> indeed
[22:46]  * mwhudson should go back to doing useful stuff, not grousing
[22:46] <lamalex> :)
[22:47] <james_w> bzr-bookmarks can do it I think
[22:47] <james_w> well, that's what it's intended to do, but I'm not sure how slick it is
[22:47] <lamalex> so is there /any/ kind of documentation about the bookmarks plugins? even just a "this is what it does" blog post?
[22:47] <lamalex> ah, in the code
[22:47] <james_w> "bzr help bookmarks"
[22:48] <james_w> if you've installed it that is :-)
[22:48] <lamalex> right, i wanted to see what it did before installing it
[22:48] <lamalex> looking at it in lp now
[22:49] <james_w> yeah, it's not good you have to do that
[22:50] <lamalex> agreed
[22:50] <lifeless> memo to self, plugin-info should be able to do that
[22:50] <lamalex> even if just the lp front page had "this is what I am"
[22:51] <lamalex> hm, bzr needs sexy zsh expansions
[22:52] <lamalex> my TODO list seems to be ever expanding
[22:52] <lamalex> hm, it also has no usage info
[22:52] <lamalex> ah, i am mistaken
[22:55] <bob2> it is relatively sexy already
[22:55] <lamalex> yah the bookmarks plugin seems to let me make a shortcut to a specific branch which is nice, but not a prefix like lp or gnome
[23:04] <lifeless> lamalex: I'd file a bug somewhere
[23:04] <lifeless> actually
[23:04] <lifeless> have a look through bzr help configuration
[23:04] <luks> it can do a prefix
[23:05] <luks> just bookmark the prefix and use bm:foo/path/to/branch
[23:05] <lamalex> ah, i had no idea help configuration existed
[23:06] <lamalex> it doesn't show up in zsh tab expansion
[23:06] <lamalex> when other stuff does- hence i never looked further
[23:06] <lifeless> lamalex: anyhow luks has rescued the day
[23:08] <lamalex> kind of, i still dont see it in there
[23:09] <lifeless> lamalex: luks says use the bookmarks plugin, which won't be patching bzr help configuration (perhaps it should :P).
[23:09] <lifeless> lamalex: so bookmark gnome as <whatever> then do gnome:/foo/bar/baz
[23:10] <luks> bm:gnome/foo/bar/baz actually
[23:10] <luks> it doesn't register a new protocol for each bookmark
[23:11] <lamalex> literally bm:
[23:11] <lamalex> ?
[23:12] <lifeless> luks: ah ok
[23:12] <lifeless> lamalex: bm:BOOKMARKNAME/suffix
[23:12] <lamalex> not as nice, but it works
[23:12] <luks> it *could* register gnome:suffix, but that would get messy pretty soon
[23:13] <lifeless> luks: it might be nice though, when people want it
[23:14] <lamalex> just dont go crazy with it, it's not the same a bookmark
[23:14] <lamalex> but being able to easily register a protocol is a nice thing to be able to do
[23:18] <lifeless> I'm all for allowing people to have rope
[23:18] <lifeless> as long as its not actually dangerous


[00:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected libbsd [source] (noble-proposed) [0.12.1-1build2]
[00:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted software-properties [source] (noble-proposed) [0.99.49]
[01:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ubuntustudio-installer (noble-proposed/universe) [1.18 => 1.19] (ubuntustudio)
[01:06] <Eickmeyer> ubuntu-sru or ubuntu-archive: Reject that last upload of ubuntustudio-installer. There's a bad file in there.
[01:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ubuntustudio-installer (noble-proposed/universe) [1.18 => 1.19] (ubuntustudio)
[02:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ubuntustudio-look (noble-proposed/universe) [24.04.8 => 24.04.9] (ubuntustudio)
[02:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: edubuntu-artwork (noble-proposed/universe) [24.04.26 => 24.04.27] (no packageset)
[06:07] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: virtualbox (noble-proposed/multiverse) [7.0.16-dfsg-2 => 7.0.16-dfsg-3] (kernel-dkms, ubuntu-cloud) (sync)
[07:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: virtualbox-hwe (noble-proposed/multiverse) [7.0.16-dfsg-2ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> => 7.0.16-dfsg-2ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (kernel-dkms)
[07:28] <locutusofborg> hello tjaalton, is virtualbox-hwe still needed?
[07:28] <locutusofborg> I added it when xorg-hwe was a thing...
[07:40] <tjaalton> locutusofborg: maybe not?
[08:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: far2l (noble-proposed/universe) [2.6.0~beta+ds-1build2 => 2.6.0~beta+ds-1ubuntu0.1] (no packageset)
[08:20] <locutusofborg> how can I drop it? take over the binaries from src:virtualbox and make them oldlibs transitional packages?
[08:24] <locutusofborg> or maybe just add a Provides?
[08:44] <OLGA77> my photo   https://www.highcpmgate.com/vdvpyk3j?key=f2b21af2cea51f467a32bdc200d0bff7
[13:43] <locutusofborg> doko,  g++-multilib : Depends: cpp (= 4:13.2.0-7ubuntu1) but 4:13.2.0-7ubuntu2 is to be installed
[13:59] <locutusofborg> maybe wrong chroot, due to -updates being dropped
[16:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: libjsoncpp (jammy-proposed/main) [1.9.5-3 => 1.9.5-3ubuntu0.1] (core, i386-whitelist)


[11:58] <rick_h_> frankban: ping, around?
[12:16] <bac> hello rick_h_.  haven't seen frankban yet, perhaps he's lunching
[12:22] <frankban> rick_h_: I am back from lunch
[12:27] <rick_h_> frankban: howdy, I talked to william and talked about the charm GET. He asked that you and dimiter get together. They're ok with an api with individual file access as long as we realize that it's a very expensive experience for now
[12:27] <rick_h_> frankban: the plan is for them to work on getting files into mongodb gridfs vs the provider storage so it'll get better with time
[12:27] <rick_h_> frankban: but they're ok on an api that's designed to be finer grained
[12:28] <rick_h_> frankban: does that sound like what we needed to run by them for that or is there more I should make sure to push for/bring up?
[12:29] <frankban> rick_h_: just to have some context, we need charms GET to retrieve the files we need for the local charm story (e.g. readme and icon) right?
[12:29] <rick_h_> frankban: exactly
[12:30] <rick_h_> frankban: and I told him that two were the two big ones we want. I got the icon as well because for some charms the vendor/branding will be important
[12:30] <frankban> rick_h_: and we currently fetch those from charmworld
[12:30] <rick_h_> frankban: the one thing I wanted to verify is if we get config AND metadata from juju without this? or juts config?
[12:30] <rick_h_> frankban: yes, but for local charms we want to be able to get them from juju and for now, we need to deal with caching appropriately so that we don't ask for it more than once
[12:31] <rick_h_> but that's on the Gui to use it properly while the api/design in juju will be more open to multiple files/any file in the charm
[12:31] <frankban> rick_h_: yes I think we need config.yaml and metadata.yaml as well
[12:31] <rick_h_> because once it's in mongodb, the performance aspect will be mitigated
[12:31] <rick_h_> frankban: well we get config from juju right?
[12:31] <rick_h_> I mean if we don't how does local charm deploy work now?
[12:32] <frankban> rick_h_: ah! yes, from the ws API
[12:32] <rick_h_> frankban: right, so we need to make sure we ONLY use this new api for things we REALLY need/can't get any other way
[12:32] <frankban> rick_h_: sounds good
[12:33] <rick_h_> frankban: cool, let me know if anything comes up from that I can help middle-man with
[12:33] <rick_h_> I guess dimitern is the guy to talk to on the nitty gritty from here
[12:35] <frankban> rick_h_: if I click to open the charms detail panel from the GUI, the missing tabs for local charms are: readme, configuration (I don'y know why, given we should have it from juju), code and features
[12:36] <rick_h_> frankban: right, and so we're not going to have feature, we're not going to show code until the implementation is fixed to make it inexpensive, and we'll try to get readme/config in there
[12:36] <rick_h_> is my understanding
[12:37] <frankban> rick_h_: yes, to show code we would need to retrieve all the files inside hooks/. the plan you described sounds reasonable
[12:38] <frankban> rick_h_: how do we currently handle the charm icons? are they cached, do we store them in some way in our db?
[12:38] <rick_h_> frankban: no, right now we link via http to them from manage.jujucharms.com and let the browser deal with the caching/etc
[12:39] <rick_h_> frankban: we'll have to be smart about it and figure out how to embed/deal with that
[12:40] <rick_h_> frankban: and one answer might be to use the charm server as a cache to link to and enable us to treat them the same, but at a local url vs manage.jujucharms.com?
[12:40] <rick_h_> frankban: but that's just tossing stuff out
[12:41] <frankban> rick_h_: this needs to be changed, for at least two reasons: 1) what you mentioned (avoid calling juju HTTPS when not strictly required) and 2) we might want to display icons for local charms in sandbox mode.
[12:41] <rick_h_> frankban: well, there's more to that. We can talk about it later
[12:42] <frankban> rick_h_: ok cool
[12:50] <rick_h_> bac: do you need a credential file to use ingest on charmworld? I'm trying to give the guys a bundle to deploy to local LXC to be able to setup an offline demo but it's not ingested reviewed charms? https://pastebin.canonical.com/104358/
[12:51]  * bac looks at paste
[12:52] <rick_h_> bac: I managed to get 186 charms, but that's it. almost all the log is about bundle errors because of charms not found
[12:52] <bac> rick_h_: i need context.  you're running charmworld locally and getting that output pasted?
[12:54] <rick_h_> bac: rgr, I'm using an lxc environment to deploy charmworld, ES, and mongodb and try ing to see if I can get it to run and ingest everything so you can put a Gui in that environment and do a presentation 'offline' since everything is in your lxc environment
[12:54] <rick_h_> the idea being an IS guy giving a talk can use lxc to setup things the day before, then present without wifi
[12:55] <rick_h_> bac: but it's only ingesting 186 charms and the only error/issue I can see in the log is p_credentials path doesn't exist: /home/webops_deploy/charmworld/charmbot_credentials.txt and wondering if that means anything to you?
[12:55] <rick_h_> are you aware of what should go in there and if missing that would prevent some charms (all the reviewed ones?) to not come down
[12:56] <bac> rick_h_: yeah, in that case you're either going to need a specific credentials file configured in the charm or perhaps defer to a system-wide lplib credential
[12:56] <rick_h_> ingest is running, and clears. but it's doing the 186 and 27 baskets
[12:57] <bac> rick_h_: what's your time frame?  can i work offline to get it running and document the process for you?
[12:57] <rick_h_> bac: sure thing. I just told them I'd look into it. Doesn't have to be this week but should give them a bundle/process that works next week sometime
[12:57]  * rick_h_ hoped it'd be simple and whip it up real quick.
[12:58] <bac> rick_h_: oh, great.  i was afraid you were in need of an answer ASAP and it's not something i have on the top of my head
[12:58] <bac> rick_h_: let me review the deploying on staging document and see.  i'll ping you shortly
[12:58] <rick_h_> bac: no, I was just asking if you had any hints for me off the top of your head :)
[12:58] <rick_h_> bac: thanks! appreciate it
[12:58] <bac> rick_h_: but i've never deployed the charmworld charm locally
[12:58] <bac> as it is a bear
[12:59] <rick_h_> bac: heh https://pastebin.canonical.com/104361/ is the bundle file I exported. The thing to update is the charmworld url in the gui to whatever charmworld comes up as
[13:00] <rick_h_> it's pretty close apart from the missing charms. Heartbeat shows it running and processing nicely
[13:02] <bac> rick_h_: nice
[13:45] <gary_poster> hey benji, have to take Julia to pre-school at 9.  Will ping when I return? 9:15 or 9:20 tops, I think, if everything goes as usual.
[13:46] <benji> gary_poster: sounds good
[13:46] <gary_poster> ty
[13:49] <bac> rick_h_: to your original question, the lp_credentials is only needed for the review job.  so it shouldn't have any impact on the demo you want to do...unless you want to show the review process
[13:49] <bac> has nothing to do with ingest
[14:34] <frankban> jujugui FWIW, rather than rebasing-hell, this approach (suggested by gary_poster) seems to work very well: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6885477/
[14:36] <hatch> that's a lot of steps :)
[14:36] <gary_poster> make an alias :-)
[14:37] <frankban> hatch: the good part is that you don't have to think hard on each step
[14:37] <hatch> I suppose the only issue with it is that you may run into issues merging your changes into a fresh develop
[14:37] <hatch> so you would have to do it manually
[14:38] <frankban> hatch: there can be conflicts, but istm less scary than rebasing.
[14:38] <hatch> right, I was just meaning with relation to an alias
[14:38] <hatch> unless an alias will bail out at that point
[14:38] <hatch> so far my aliases have been very simple
[14:41] <gary_poster> qa-pr is simple? :-)\
[14:41] <hatch> frankban gary_poster could we not use squash when merging our branches into develop via the CI?
[14:41] <hatch> I don't use any of the gui aliases :)
[14:42] <hatch> git merge --squash
[14:42] <hatch> that is
[14:45] <hatch> if it did work... we could pull the commit message from the message with :shipit: in it...maybe?
[15:00] <frankban> guihelp: I need two reviews + QA for https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/110 (upload charm in sandbox mode preparation) thanks!
[15:01] <hatch> on it
[15:02] <frankban> hatch: thanks
[15:40] <hatch> frankban curious, what does --upload-tools do? The help only says that it 'uploads a local version of the tools' which isn't very helpful :)
[15:42] <frankban> hatch: if you use a local env that's optional. but if you use, e.g. ec2 with juju-core trunk, it uploads the juju-core binaries from your own build to the cloud, so that ec2 runs exactly what you compiled
[15:42] <hatch> ohh gotcha - ok yeah I'm running local
[15:42] <hatch> thanks
[15:49] <bac> frankban: where do the guiserver logs get written?
[15:49] <hatch>  /var/log/upstart
[15:49] <frankban> bac: ^^^
[15:49] <hatch> which apparently isn't a freenode command :)
[15:50] <bac> thanks hatch & frankban
[15:50] <bac> glad i asked...it may have taken me a while to find them there!
[15:50] <gary_poster> jujugui call in 10
[15:51] <gary_poster> bac, it's in the charm HACKING.md.  The last section of that doc has some nice debugging tips
[15:52] <bac> thanks
[15:55] <frankban> hatch: replied to some of your comments in the review, thanks (and github "real time" conversation in reviews is cool)
[15:56] <hatch> :) cool, they were all pretty trivial, I'm just doing the qa noq
[15:56] <hatch> now
[15:56] <frankban> cool
[15:58] <gary_poster> jujugui call in 2
[16:06] <hatch> frankban when running in sandbox in make-prod whats the password for the gui?
[16:07] <frankban> admin?
[16:07] <hatch> oh duh
[16:21] <hatch> hazmat I read that you have a local provider demo for digital ocean?
[16:49] <hatch> interesting...if you stub Y.one() it also stubs Y.Node.create()
[16:49] <hatch> var oneStub = testUtils.makeStubMethod(Y, 'one', 'asdfasf');
[16:50] <hatch> both return the return value
[16:59] <gary_poster> jujgui, great news: james page reports to rick that quickstart is in trusty universe now.  Yay!  Moreover, he's actively helping us to get it in main as well, so that still might happen.  Double yay!
[16:59] <gary_poster> jujugui ^^
[16:59] <hatch> yay
[16:59] <frankban> :-)
[17:00] <gary_poster> and meanwhile, I'm going to pick up my daughter from preschool.  biab
[17:18] <frankban> benji: is evaluating a js zip library part of your current card?
[17:20] <Makyo> frankban, LGTM
[17:20] <frankban> Makyo: great thanks
[17:30] <benji> frankban: yep; it's looking like zip.js (http://gildas-lormeau.github.io/zip.js/fs-api.html) is going to be best for the present with a little future-proofness built in
[17:30] <frankban> benji: cool thanks
[17:41] <hatch> that's the one I was leaning towards as well :)
[18:13] <gary_poster> Makyo: https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/111 :-)
[18:20] <hatch> so.....much......testsssssss
[18:21] <hatch> eyes....bleeeeding
[18:24] <Makyo> Might want to see a doctor about that.
[18:24] <Makyo> +1, gary_poster :)
[18:24] <gary_poster> cool thanks Makyo :-)
[19:08] <benji> hatch: is it intentional that a user can drop multiple zips at once and have them all deploy?
[19:09] <hatch> benji yes but untested
[19:10] <hatch> I'm assuming that works?
[19:10] <hatch> :)
[19:10] <benji> I haven't tried it.
[19:10] <hatch> I say untested because it's not really 'supported' there are other issues like the ghost inspectors poping up and stuff
[19:10] <hatch> it will loop through the files that are dropped and do what it will with them
[19:12] <benji> hatch: In that case I won't preserve the behavior.
[19:12] <hatch> sounds like a plan
[19:12] <hatch> +1
[19:12] <benji> cool
[19:18] <bac> gary_poster: just noticed staging.jujucharms.com is completely gone
[19:18] <bac> gary_poster: will re-deploy it all.
[19:19] <gary_poster> bac, eek.  OK thank you.  I guess that is fun from the canonistack upgrade
[19:19] <bac> yeah
[19:19] <bac> gary_poster: do you know the urgency of the debug=true query string for icons for rick?
[19:19] <gary_poster> not really bac
[19:20] <bac> ok. well a functioning staging with it QAed there is a pre-req for a rollout
[19:57] <bac> hi abentley, you around?
[19:57] <abentley> bac: Hi.
[20:04] <hatch> jujugui looking for a review/qa https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/112 I need this one landed before Huw gets in so he can style it....plz and thanks
[20:05] <benji> hatch: I'll take a look.
[20:05] <hatch> thanks!
[20:07] <hatch> gary_poster your branch failed to be merged into develop
[20:07] <gary_poster> hatch, bah and thanks
[20:07] <hatch> doesn't give much of an error message though :/
[20:07] <hatch> np
[20:22] <benji> hatch: I've never done QA using github, how do I get your branch?
[20:22] <hatch> benji at the bottom of the conversation list there is a link 'command line'
[20:22] <hatch> in the section that says Merge with caution!
[20:23] <hatch> copy and run the first TWO commands
[20:23] <hatch> do NOT to step 2 :)
[20:23] <hatch> do*
[20:23] <benji> ah, it's hidden under "Merging via command line"
[20:24] <hatch> yeah, we don't want to do that though :)
[20:24] <hatch> but that way you can just click to copy and don't have to type it out
[20:34] <gary_poster> benji, the HACKING doc has another approach from Rick that I use fwiw
[20:34] <benji> gary_poster: thanks; I looked in there but nothing jumped out at me
[20:34] <gary_poster> benji, the qa-pr alias is the trick
[20:52] <bac> jujugui: staging.jujucharm.com rebuild is going slow but seems to be coming up now.
[20:52] <gary_poster> ack thank you
[21:09] <benji> hatch: review done
[21:09] <hatch> thanks
[21:11] <rick_h_> party party
[21:12] <gary_poster> what the heck are you doing around rick_h_? :-) it must be well past midnight
[21:13] <rick_h_> 11pm
[21:13] <rick_h_> just got back from  evening out. bus down to the waterfront mall area straight from the office today
[21:13] <gary_poster> ah ok
[21:13] <gary_poster> cool
[21:13] <gary_poster> pretty?
[21:14] <rick_h_> meh, it was a mall. Nice to walk around and such
[21:14] <rick_h_> can see the tabletop mountain though which was cool
[21:16] <hatch> rick_h_ https://github.com/hatched/juju-gui/blob/select-series/app/views/viewlets/request-series.js see viewlets do rock when they are used like they are supposed to be :P
[21:17] <hatch> haha
[21:18] <hatch> benji you and your empty return values :P
[21:18] <rick_h_> hatch: where's the rest of it?
[21:18] <hatch> that's it
[21:18] <benji> I think it's not just me.
[21:18] <rick_h_> hatch: like the events, the trigger on drop, the updating the value
[21:19] <hatch> rick_h_ well that doesn't exist yet
[21:19] <rick_h_> hatch: so not so simple if it doesn't work :P
[21:19] <rick_h_> yes, showing a template is easy...yay!
[21:19] <hatch> lol
[21:19] <hatch> I added a card to add events to the viewlets :)
[21:20] <rick_h_> I'll add a card to change viewlets to views :P
[21:20] <hatch> that's actually pretty trivial to do
[21:20] <rick_h_> demo of quickstart deploying a bundle and local charm first thing in the morning
[21:21] <rick_h_> hatch: yep, was going to make it card #1 for moving inspector to the left
[21:21] <hatch> well that's not really part of moving the inspector
[21:21] <rick_h_> jcasto is going to do a quickstart thing as a lightning talk he says
[21:21] <rick_h_> he was blown away when he had to reinstall his machine and did a juju bootstrap and got that juju wasn't installed
[21:21] <rick_h_> but did juju quickstart and it got all setup
[21:21] <rick_h_> hatch: sssshhhh, yes it is :)
[21:21] <hatch> huw should have styled the series selection by your morning
[21:22] <rick_h_> meh, I'll keep it where it's at right now. It just drops
[21:22] <hatch> I was thinking of keeping viewlets and not using views so that we didn't have to create new instances all the time
[21:22] <gary_poster> bac, mjc down?
[21:22] <hatch> ohh ok, don't update from develop then
[21:22] <gary_poster> oh, back now
[21:22] <rick_h_> hatch: but creating and cleaning instances ftw
[21:23] <rick_h_> explicit but whatever, we can chat. I had thought we had agreed to tweak that
[21:23] <hatch> I did, then I started looking at the extra cruft that it brings
[21:23] <hatch> a Y.VIew
[21:23] <rick_h_> since I'm on a dial up moden over here and hard to discuss
[21:23] <rick_h_> modem
[21:23] <hatch> 56k?
[21:23] <hatch> :P
[21:24] <rick_h_> heh, 2G on the mifi at the moment
[21:24] <rick_h_> that's like..half the G's I like
[21:24] <hatch> no longer the same ol' G
[21:25] <rick_h_> ooh, bac you doing a mjc deploy? or is that for next week?
[21:27] <gary_poster> hey Makyo, I was looking at implementing aggregatedStatus.  So, looks like I walk the relations, then for reach relation, I have to walk the units of the source and target services to see if there is an error with the agent_state_data.hook value with a corresponding interfaceName + '-relation-changed' for the relation.  Is that 'bout right?
[21:27] <Makyo> gary_poster, I wound up doing that as part of my branch.  Want to compare notes?
[21:28] <gary_poster> Makyo: nm, if you've done it.  Was trying to be helpful. :-)
[21:28] <gary_poster> happy to talk if you'd like to but otherwise will look about for something else
[21:28] <hatch> gary_poster https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/blob/develop/app/views/viewlets/service-relations.js#L38
[21:28] <Makyo> gary_poster, no worries! Was working on relation status for the icons in the menu, and realized I had to type 5 lines to get the aggregated status in there.
[21:29] <hatch> I'd love it if we could somehow move that into the relation objects
[21:29] <gary_poster> hatch would be difficult because relations don't have direct references to services
[21:29] <gary_poster> could instead make helper function
[21:30] <gary_poster> usable in isolation or this kind of context
[21:30] <hatch> yeah right, I was thinking that there should be something in the db (util method) because it would then have access to it all
[21:30] <Makyo> gary_poster, I came up with http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6887685/
[21:31] <hatch> It would also be nice if a service had reference to it's relation objects
[21:32] <gary_poster> Makyo: how can relation.hasRelationError() work, given the lack of references I was just mentioning?
[21:32] <Makyo> gary_poster, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6887690/
[21:32] <Makyo> DecoratedRelations do.
[21:33] <gary_poster> oic
[21:34] <Makyo> That's currently on the decorated relation, but it could go on the relation model as well to be used by the viewlets.
[21:34] <gary_poster> Makyo: that last pastebin is too fragile, I think: if a unit has *any* relation error it will declare all relations it has to be in error
[21:35] <gary_poster> Makyo: I think you need to do what I descrbed above: see "if there is an error with the agent_state_data.hook value with a corresponding interfaceName + '-relation-changed' for the relation"
[21:35] <Makyo> gary_poster, It's the same logic as hatch 's link, but yeah, I'll look into it.
[21:35] <gary_poster> ah, yeah, that's broken too :-/
[21:36] <Makyo> But like I said, I can store this on the relation model rather than the decorated relation, and then the viewlet doesn't need to do it either.
[21:36] <hatch> the issue with the viewlets one is that a relation can be both good and bad
[21:36] <gary_poster> Makyo: but relation model doesn't have source/target
[21:37] <hatch> depending on which service you're viewing it from
[21:37] <hatch> whereas in the relation line if either end is bad, the whole thing is bad
[21:37] <gary_poster> hatch, but that logic is also broken if you have multiple relations betwen the same two servcies
[21:37] <gary_poster> or actually no
[21:37] <Makyo> gary_poster, but we have that when decorating the relation.
[21:37] <hatch> do we want to chat in a hangout? :)
[21:37] <gary_poster> a unit can have any relation error
[21:37] <gary_poster> ok sure
[21:38] <gary_poster> I nominate hatch to make the hangout :-P
[21:38] <hatch> on it
[21:38] <gary_poster> :-) thx
[21:38] <hatch> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7acpiti1mnfe553mh8r2l4flqc?authuser=1&hl=en gary_poster  Makyo
[21:39] <Makyo> hatch, please invite<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:39] <hatch> on it
[21:39] <hatch> done
[21:57] <huwshimi> Morning
[21:59] <hatch> hey huwshimi
[22:01] <Makyo> Dogs are being ridiculous (part of my frustration on the call, sorry).  Gonna get them out for walks before they drive me up the wall.
[22:01] <hatch> :)
[22:02] <hatch> huwshimi develop now has the series selector inspector in it
[22:02] <huwshimi> hatch: Ah brilliant
[22:02] <huwshimi> hatch: How do I trigger it?
[22:03] <hatch> drag a file with a .zip extension onto the canvas should work....
[22:03] <hatch> i think frankban's fakebackend code landed with enough functionality
[22:03] <hatch> let me check
[22:03] <hatch> one minute
[22:04] <huwshimi> hatch: That worked. I'll style it then!
[22:05] <hatch> awesome yup it works
[22:05] <hatch> a few branches landed just in time for you to not have to do a bunch of setup
[22:05] <hatch> :)
[22:05] <hatch> huwshimi so basically, the rules are.......do whatever you want with the styling :D
[22:06] <hatch> benji you wouldn't happen to be around still hey?
[22:07] <benji> hatch: not really
[22:07] <benji> :)
[22:07] <benji> what's up?
[22:07] <hatch> haha, just looking for a quick update on the zip stuff. I'm trying to decide what to do next
[22:08] <benji> I've moved into the implementation phase.  Nothing of note to report yet.
[22:08] <benji> The tests for the existing code are a little sparse, so that's not helping.
[22:08] <hatch> alright in that case I'll move outside of project 1 for now
[22:08] <hatch> thanks
[22:08] <hatch> enjoy your night :)
[22:12] <benji> later
[23:33] <hatch> huwshimi hey, just for planning tomorrow, do you think you'll be done with the styling and such by your EOD?
[23:33] <huwshimi> hatch: Just pushing now!
[23:34] <hatch> oh haha perfect :)
[23:42] <huwshimi> hatch: https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/113
[23:43] <hatch> on it!
[23:44] <hatch> oh man that looks about 1Billion times better
[23:45] <huwshimi> :)
[23:47] <hatch> huwshimi small idea from qa added to the review
[23:55] <huwshimi> hatch: I'm not quite sure what to do...
[23:58] <bac> jujugui: http://staging.jujucharms.com/heartbeat up but mildly disgruntled
[23:58] <bac> hi huwshimi!


[12:41] <grantw> what is an good project a beginner developer can start fixing bugs for?
[12:42] <FlowRiser> grantw, what is your area of expertise ?
[12:44] <grantw> i've got a bit of experience with Java, but mostly been a C# asp.net/SQL developer for the last 4 years, I've been using Linux for a few years, it is my main desktop at home
[12:45] <grantw> so i make a living as a developer, but would like to contribute to Linux
[12:46] <grantw> i went to an Ubuntu jam yesterday to see what it is all about, and have been searching for bugs in Launchpad, just trying to find small bugs to get started with
[12:46] <grantw> i should probably pick a specific project and get to know that
[12:46] <FlowRiser> grantw, well, that is mostly windows stuff ... But if you have sql knowledge, just pick a project!
[12:47] <FlowRiser> grantw, if you want you can even try your hand at some html5 apps for Ubuntu 13.04
[12:52] <grantw> ok, so just search launchpad for web apps?
[13:01] <FlowRiser> grantw, that's the idea :D
[13:01] <FlowRiser> grantw, but really you can even work on all kinds of apps involving databases


[00:07] <air^> howdy.
[00:08] <air^> how do I start the "gui" baed partition editor used in installation?
[00:08] <air^> (I want to use it to setup sw raid on some other disks, ubuntu-server is installed on it's own drive)
[00:13] <air^> Is ext4 stable in 10.10?
[00:19] <ScottK> I think it's safe to assume the developers believe it to be stable or else they wouldn't have made it the default file system type.
[01:55] <eriksson25> Anyone in that could help, need a good harddrive recovery program. My system disk died on my. I am in live cd now, could get to the /home partition but not the /root
[01:55] <eriksson25> Pls, any help.
[05:24] <moparisthebest> I set up RAID 1 using mdadm the other day, and md4 appears not to have synced, can anyone help? cat /proc/mdstat: http://paste.ubuntu.com/531032/
[05:24] <moparisthebest> it doesn't show UU like I think it should :/
[05:26] <moparisthebest> or does anyone know a better place to ask?
[06:53] <ndroftheline> hello all!
[06:53] <ndroftheline> i'm having trouble connecting to my router from my external address
[06:55] <ndroftheline> i have the appropriate ports forwarded
[06:55] <ndroftheline> and i've even put it in dmz
[06:55] <ndroftheline> it's not helping. any suggesiotions?
[11:17] <RoyK> is memory ballooning available in kvm in Lucid?
[11:17] <lifeless> yes
[11:18] <RoyK> by default, or will I have to enable it somehow?
[11:18] <RoyK> I have this machine with currently 4 VMs - I haven't overcommitted (much) yet - just wondering
[11:18] <lifeless> pretty sure its on by default; it was a early feature of kvm IIRC
[11:19] <lifeless> anyhow, have to run
[11:19] <lifeless> ciao - I'm sure others can answer any other qyesetions you have
[11:29] <XeNoT> just wondering, how do I get the unstable package from archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/p/proftpd-dfsg/ ? I tried adding unstable to several configs, yet I can't download the package using apt-get
[11:56] <k5673> Yo! How can i optimize the performance of virtual guests runing in ubuntu 10.04 with KVM.
[11:57] <k5673> Processor Intel Xeon E5420 @ 2.5 GHz. 16 Gb RAM
[11:57] <k5673> Lucid Guests
[11:58] <k5673> Both x86 and x86_64
[12:00] <k5673> Yo! How can i optimize the performance of virtual guests runing in ubuntu 10.04 with KVM. Processor Intel Xeon E5420 @ 2.5 GHz. 16 Gb RAM. Lucid Guests.Both x86 and x86_64
[12:06] <k5673> Yo! How can i optimize the performance of virtual guests runing in ubuntu 10.04 with KVM? Processor Intel Xeon E5420 @ 2.5 GHz. 16 Gb RAM. Lucid Guests.Both x86 and x86_64
[12:11] <Nafallo> k5673: asking the same question every few minutes are not going to help you get an answer quicker fwiw.
[12:12] <k5673> OK
[12:34] <mgolisch> k5673: what problems do you experience?
[12:37] <k5673> mgolisch: Running an x86-only database under a 32 bits Lucid guest with 3GB of allocated RAM and 4 assigned processors is slower than running the same database on 32 bits Lucid real with 3GB RAM and Intel Xeon Quad-Core Processor.
[12:38] <k5673> mgolisch: The virtual one is slower than the real one
[12:38] <Nafallo> that's to be expected.
[12:38] <mgolisch> what did you expect?
[12:39] <mgolisch> especialy virtual smp doesnt work too well in many virtualisation products
[12:50] <k5673> Mmmmmmmm
[12:50] <k5673> OK
[13:25] <NightDragon> hello
[13:25] <NightDragon> need some help
[13:25] <NightDragon> for some reason, 'ipmisensors' module isnt included in ubuntu server kernel
[13:56] <ehcah> When considering Disk based backup for a SOHO NAS...  What is the most important consideration?  Mirroring capacity?  Speed?  Offsite vs. Same Rack?
[14:05] <RoyK> ehcah: zfs?
[14:05] <RoyK> mirroring is a good thing until you get fs corruption or someone deletes a file by accident
[14:06] <eagles0513875> hey guys
[14:06] <RoyK> with zfs (or btrfs if you're brave) you have snapshotting, which is rather nice
[14:06] <RoyK> hi girls
[14:06] <eagles0513875> im testing kvm on my desktop running kubuntu but im just wondering aquemu will it allow me to setup a guest on a remote machine?
[14:06] <ehcah> That's what I'm fearing.  I don't know about have a 24 bay chassis and its backup in the same rack, or house either.
[14:11] <ehcah> I've been all over the net and as a result of purchasing an Areca Raid Controller, decided that I will simply use Ubuntu Server and allow the Raid Controller to configure my disk for Raid6.
[14:11] <NightDragon> why raid6?
[14:11] <ehcah> I know ZFS, or BTRFS, when available in production sits on top of my config, but I'm not sure I need it?
[14:13] <RoyK> ehcah: hardware raid sucks hard when it comes to silent disk errors, and with terabytes of data, you'll get silent errors from the drives, meaning either corrupted data or (in case of metadata) perhaps a panic
[14:13] <ehcah> NightDragon:  I think it offers me the most protection for my data.  Keeping in mind that Raid 6 is still a single point of faillure for me.
[14:14] <NightDragon> unless you *really* think 2 drives could fail at once...
[14:14] <ehcah> RoyK:  Can nothing be easy for the incompetent like myself?
[14:14] <NightDragon> (which is rather astronomical odds)
[14:14] <NightDragon> me, personally i prefer Raid5 + HotSpare
[14:14] <NightDragon> less overhead
[14:14] <ehcah> NightDragon:  You haven't met me.  If it can go wrong, it will.
[14:14] <NightDragon> lol fair enough
[14:14] <RoyK> NightDragon: heh - I somehow guess you aren't having too much data around :)
[14:15] <NightDragon> well if you think about it
[14:15] <NightDragon> take the odds of a drive failing
[14:15] <ehcah> NightDragon:  Raid5 + Hot Spare leaves me the same usable disk space.  How does performance improve?
[14:15] <NightDragon> and multiply that by the odds of a second drive failing within the timeframe of data transfer to hotspare
[14:15] <RoyK> NightDragon: the most common thing is (a) drive fails, (b) insert new drive, (c) start rebuilding/resilvering and (d) corruption is found on one of the other drives - whops - data corruption
[14:15] <NightDragon> ehcah: because one of the drives isnt in use until its needed. less overhead
[14:15] <RoyK> NightDragon: that is, with linux sw raid or hw raid, you might not see the data is corrupted, so it's ignored, which is rather sad
[14:16] <NightDragon> hmmz, an interesting problem
[14:16] <NightDragon> i see your point
[14:16] <ehcah> RoyK:  Is there any software that can automatically run corruption tests?  OR, are they simply found on a rebuild or specific file access?
[14:16] <RoyK> NightDragon: it's not hypothetic -I've seen it several times
[14:16] <RoyK> ehcah: zfs?
[14:17] <NightDragon> well then Helllllloooooo tape drive!
[14:17] <ehcah> If I run ZFS, doesn't that make the $1,300 I spent on my Areca card, wasted?
[14:17] <NightDragon> (j/k.. i get your point lol)
[14:17] <RoyK> ehcah: return it
[14:17]  * NightDragon is just jealous that his DRAC card doesnt support raid 6 :(
[14:18] <RoyK> ehcah: zfs is way better than what areca can give you
[14:18]  * RoyK is setting up a couple of 110TB boxes these days - all on zfs
[14:18] <ehcah> All I can say is ARGH!!!  Everytime I think I've got things worked out, there is a contrary argument against my solution.
[14:18] <ehcah> This is good though.
[14:18] <air^> :)
[14:18] <ehcah> I'm trying to start out right!
[14:18] <RoyK> ehcah: didn't say it wasn't good enough :)
[14:18] <ehcah> I know.
[14:18] <air^> Interesting discussion.
[14:19] <ehcah> I just wish I were more technical.
[14:19] <ehcah> It would make my life easier.
[14:19] <RoyK> ehcah: dig further and it'll bleed in :)
[14:19] <ehcah> When all is said done, I'll have spent more than $3,500 on a solution I intended to reuse older hardware for....
[14:19] <ehcah> RoyK:  I don't know about that.  I've proven to be pretty thick!  :)
[14:20] <RoyK> ehcah: that's about as much as we paid for this 10TB test unit
[14:20]  * RoyK grins
[14:20] <ehcah> I bet your disk are better quality than the 2TB Samsung ones I intend to continue using.
[14:20] <RoyK> why?
[14:20] <RoyK> most disks are about the same quality
[14:21] <RoyK> speed differs, obviously, but the error rate is quite constant
[14:21] <ehcah> My disk are currently $80 at NewEgg.
[14:21] <RoyK> according to google's tests
[14:21] <RoyK> well, they'll work
[14:21] <ehcah> The 12 I have now, work flawlessly.
[14:21] <ehcah> It's unRAID I'm not quite happy with.
[14:21] <ehcah> For a ZFS solution. I was ready to use Nexanta.
[14:22] <RoyK> why not?
[14:22] <RoyK> or openindiana....
[14:22] <ehcah> A few forums I've posted in suggested going back to straight linux server and HW or SW Raid.
[14:22] <ehcah> RoyK:  I have OpenIndiana in a VM as well.
[14:22] <RoyK> I really won't suggest using linux software (or hardware) raid over zfs
[14:22] <ehcah> I know the FAQ's say it has a Server + Desktop focus, but I find it very desktop like?
[14:23] <ehcah> Any idea when BTRFS will be readily supported?
[14:23] <RoyK> zfs is a little slower, because of the checksumming, but when you get those silent errors from the drives, those will be detected by zfs, not by other solutions
[14:23] <RoyK> perhaps by btrfs
[14:23] <RoyK> but then, btrfs only supports mirroring
[14:23] <ehcah> Didn't know that.
[14:23] <RoyK> ehcah: you can install on btrfs from 10.10
[14:24] <ehcah> I know, but I didn't think it was supposed to be ready for full usage until sometime in mid 2011?
[14:24] <RoyK> ehcah: no current linux fs (except btrfs) checksums data
[14:25] <RoyK> ehcah: I guess btrfs will get up to current zfs usability around 2015 with the current progress :þ
[14:25] <ehcah> RoyK:  Hypothetically.  If I could return my Areca card.  What would you reccomend that would ultimately get me to 24 SATA drives running on ZFS?
[14:25] <RoyK> pci-x or pci?
[14:25] <ehcah> Between the two, I'd go with ZFS, hands down.  Way more support and implemenations out there...
[14:26] <ehcah> Let me check the MOBO I've bought before I answer. The areca is PCI x8
[14:26] <ehcah> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182211
[14:27] <ehcah> x8, or x4 I guess.
[14:27] <ehcah> Straight PCI is probably slower than I want?
[14:27] <ehcah> and that MOBO only has 1 slot.
[14:28] <RoyK> LSI SAS9211-8i is quite cheap
[14:28] <RoyK> that and a SAS expander will allow you to connect a truckload of drives with good speed
[14:29] <ehcah> Ahh, expander... I was thinking I was limited to 8 drives with the card above.
[14:29] <RoyK> 8 6Gbps SAS ports
[14:29] <RoyK> with an expander you can utilize those quite well
[14:30] <RoyK> usually the expander takes 4 SAS ports
[14:30] <ehcah> Not to push my health insurance too far, but any suggestion for an expander
[14:30] <RoyK> meaning 24Gbps
[14:30] <RoyK> I think those are quite generic
[14:31] <ehcah> If I could safe enough money on the cards.  I'd purchase a second Norco RPC-4224 chassis.
[14:31] <ehcah> k.
[14:31] <RoyK> a sas expander is like an ethernet switch
[14:31] <RoyK> only that it switches sas
[14:31] <ehcah> Stupid question:  Externally mounted or on a PCI type card?
[14:32] <RoyK> SAS expanders connect to SAS, so usually externally
[14:32] <RoyK> (or at the backplane)
[14:32] <RoyK> most backplanes have a sas expander these days
[14:32] <RoyK> at least the larger ones
[14:33] <ehcah> The RPC-4224 may have 6 already?
[14:33] <ehcah> I'll need to check its specs.
[14:33] <ehcah> I know it has only 6 connections required.
[14:33] <RoyK> Six internal SFF-8087 Mini SAS connectors support up to twenty-four 3.5" or 2.5" SATA (I or II) or SAS hard drives;
[14:33] <RoyK> meaning it has an expander.....
[14:34] <ehcah> yes.
[14:34] <RoyK> dunno if that's 3Gbps or 6Gbps, though
[14:34] <RoyK> 3Gbps will probably suffice, so you can get a cheaper controller
[14:34] <ehcah> 3Gbps I beleive.
[14:34] <RoyK> then the 9211 will be overkill
[14:36] <ehcah> I'm looking at other LSI options to see....
[14:37] <ehcah> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100006520%2050001833%2040000410&IsNodeId=1&Manufactory=1833&bop=And&SpeTabStoreType=1&CompareItemList=410|16-118-100^16-118-100-S01,16-118-099^16-118-099-S01
[14:39] <ehcah> Actually, on closer observation... I'm probably best with 3 of http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816118100
[14:39] <ehcah> With LSI that is.
[14:41] <RoyK> ehcah: try asking on #openindiana - you might not need three of those - but again - that will depend on the backplane/expander used
[14:41] <ehcah> Will do.
[14:42] <ehcah> The only trouble is adding multiple cards creeps back to the same price as I was already paying... http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816151052
[14:42] <RoyK> ehcah: what sort of application will this be?
[14:42] <ehcah> Home Media collection.
[14:42] <ehcah> No Database or Web serving.
[14:42] <RoyK> ehcah: then you can probably live with a single controller
[14:43] <RoyK> the bandwidth will suffice
[14:43] <RoyK> and I guess you're only on gigabit ethernet or lower anyway
[14:43] <muszek> hi... newbie question.  I want to change umask for the 'pootle' user to 0002.  how do I do it?  it's a user that runs PootleService.
[14:43] <ehcah> Ok. I need to get head around around connecting the 6 8087's on the Norco backplane.
[14:44] <RoyK> it doesn't matter if the server can deliver 10Gbps if you connect that to an 802.11g network
[14:44] <muszek> s/PootleService/PootleServer
[14:44] <ehcah> My LAN includes 24 GB ports for this type of usage. Not faster.
[14:44] <RoyK> how many concurrent users?
[14:44] <ehcah> All of my media touching devices are hard wired to the GB switch.
[14:44] <ehcah> We're a family of 4.
[14:45] <RoyK> so worst case 4 concurrent users
[14:45] <ehcah> It would be tough to hit more than that.
[14:45] <ehcah> Yes.
[14:45] <RoyK> you can use anything for that
[14:45] <RoyK> it'll work well
[14:45] <ehcah> Maybe a backup or ripping session on top. THat's it.
[14:45] <RoyK> you really don't need a truckload of controllers
[14:45] <ehcah> That's why I like the Areca card, when, I was convinced HW raid was the way to go.
[14:45]  * RoyK just ordered some 10Gbps switches :D
[14:46] <ehcah> Good thing all my gear hasn't arrived yet.
[14:46] <ehcah> oh man. for home or business?
[14:46] <RoyK> business :)
[14:46] <RoyK> two 110TB servers for disk-based backup connected by 10Gbps to the main datacentre
[14:46] <RoyK> quite fun :)
[14:47] <ehcah> Yep.  Sounds like it.  All my data will require a 1:1 ratio for backup.
[14:47] <ehcah> I don't know how to plan for that capacity beyond the 450 Blu-rays and 200 DVD's I'm ripping now...
[14:47] <ehcah> I also struggle with having duplicate copies in the same rack.
[14:48] <ehcah> I have a 70Mbit fibre connection, but no friends willing to house a server for me.
[14:48] <RoyK> ehcah: I wrote a perl script to find duplicated files on a filesystem...
[14:49] <ehcah> Not sure if this makes a difference, but I should have wrote Mbps
[14:49] <RoyK> ehcah: for your setup, if you want to use 24 drives, I'd recommend either 3 RAIDz2 VDEVs of 8 drives each (for performance/safety) or 2 RAIDz2 VDEVs with 12 drives each
[14:49] <RoyK> ehcah: how many drives are you getting initially?
[14:50] <ehcah> RoyK:  I can't write a script, but I thought de-dup looks for those instances?
[14:50] <RoyK> ehcah: don't use zfs dedup as of now
[14:50] <ehcah> 12 total, to begin with.
[14:50] <RoyK> ehcah: also, don't use zfs dedup now
[14:50] <RoyK> 12 drives can live happily in a raidz2
[14:50] <ehcah> Although, with NewEgg.ca's sale price, I could easily add more. OR, share those with a second unit for backup...
[14:51] <ehcah> Ok.
[14:51] <RoyK> I've been testing dedup quite extensively, and it sucks hard
[14:51] <RoyK> zfs dedup, that is
[14:51] <ehcah> 12 x 2TB in Radz2 is about 18GB usable?
[14:51] <ehcah> good to know.
[14:51] <RoyK> (12-2)x2
[14:51] <ehcah> ok, or 1.8 I think?
[14:52] <RoyK> so 20TB or ~18TiB
[14:52] <RoyK> 1TB ~ .9TiB
[14:52] <RoyK> TiB is what's reported by the OS
[14:52] <RoyK> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tebibyte
[14:52] <ehcah> I also own a Sans Digital 8 bay external enclosure with a port multiplier.  Would this be good for backup?  I was going to sell it and try to by a second Norco case.
[14:53] <ehcah> That's why I always assume about 1.8 on a 2TB drive.
[14:54] <muszek> how do I set umask for a user that runs a daemon?
[14:54] <ehcah> Based on the 450 BD I'm ripping at an average of 25GB per, I only need just under 12TB.  And even with a machine that will 4 BD readers in it, it will take me quite a while to get there.
[14:56] <ehcah> RoyK:  I know this an Ubuntu forum... But, do you prefer OpenIndiana to Nexanta?  Or was that recommendation simply for me as OI comes with a full desktop environment?
[14:56] <ehcah> My Nexanta VM has napp-it as the GUI.
[15:02] <RoyK> nexenta isn§t a desktop system
[15:02] <RoyK> isn't
[15:02] <RoyK> OI installs as a desktop system, but isn't really meant to be one
[15:03] <ehcah> Ah. Ok, that makes sense.
[15:03] <ehcah> From what I've read, they both run the same version of ZFS and have all of the same options.
[15:03] <RoyK> OI has a newer zpool version
[15:04] <RoyK> but most of the good stuff is in nexenta as well
[15:04] <RoyK> freebsd zfs support lacks stuff like removing an slog, which is rather bad
[15:04] <RoyK> meaning - if you add an slog (zil on ssd) and you lose that, the whole pool is lost
[15:04] <RoyK> but then, that's not really relevant to your use
[15:05] <ehcah> I don't fully understand where FreeNas is going, but I think at this point, I'd hold off until version 8 comes out?
[15:05] <ehcah> I think I had decided on Nexanta for ZFS, but had not equally ruled out OI.
[15:05] <RoyK> ehcah: I'd use OI if I was to choose
[15:05] <ehcah> That's really good to know.
[15:06] <ehcah> :)
[15:06] <RoyK> ehcah: we're setting up OI on these 110TB units
[15:06] <RoyK> 77 2TB drives in 11 7-drive RAIDz2s
[15:06] <RoyK> whee!
[15:06] <ehcah> As I mentioned, I have it running in a VM. Do I need to add anything to the base install?
[15:06] <ehcah> COOL.
[15:07] <RoyK> ehcah: try to add a bunch of virtual HDs to that VM and try to remove them, rearrange them etc
[15:07] <RoyK> try to fuck it up badly
[15:07] <ehcah> If I could figure out my cards, I'd actually mount 2 of those Norco chassis and start with single 8 disk RAIDz2's in each.
[15:08] <ehcah> RoyK:  I plan to when all my gear arrives.
[15:08] <RoyK> why not ...
[15:08] <RoyK> then just use zfs send/receive between them
[15:08]  * RoyK diverts to #openindiana
[15:08] <ehcah> RoyK:  Unfortunately, my drives are that 8 bay enclosure and unRaid for now.
[15:08] <ehcah> k.
[16:33] <kinygos> hi...i want to ensure my iptables rules are persisted through reboot (i have fail2ban adding permanent bans)...i've found an article suggesting i add pre-up and post-down commands to my /etc/network/interfaces file...reading the man page for that file has made me nervous...could anyone spare me a moment to check what i'm planning to do?  the server is remote and i don't want to lose connectivity...http://dpaste.
[16:34] <kinygos> i don't know if i'm adding those pre-up and post-down commands correctly...
[16:35] <mrmist> personally I have the script in /etc/network/if-pre-up.d which does an iptables-restore from a pre-saved lsit of rules.
[16:36] <kinygos> mrmist: but my rules are being added to pretty much every day by fail2ban
[16:36] <mrmist> fail2ban will sort itself out, you don't need to save those rules
[16:36] <kinygos> mrmist: really????  oh, that's the only reason i want to save the config
[16:36] <mrmist> you can do some other stuff around persisting them, though, i believe, but i've not really looked deep into that
[16:37] <kinygos> mrmist: i should've thought fail2ban would be smart like that...thanks :)
[16:54] <RoyK> kinygos: personally I'd use denyhosts over fail2ban
[16:54] <RoyK> it's distributed and works well
[16:55] <RoyK> it doesn't cover stuff that doesn't use tcpwrapper's hosts.deny, but then, most services do
[17:02] <kinygos> RoyK: i've just seen your note...i'm afraid to use denyhosts...i only have remote access to the server and i'm not confident in my abilities to configure it correctly first time
[17:03] <kinygos> RoyK: if i lose access to it, i'll end up having to rebuild it which will be a massive setback in terms of timescales for me
[17:07] <RoyK> kinygos: don't you have some sort of console access to the host?
[17:10] <kinygos> RoyK: i have a lights out board...actually, thinking about it, i might have remote kvm
[17:12] <kinygos> RoyK: can denyhosts run alongside fail2ban, or is that a silly suggestion?
[17:17] <RoyK> if you only need ssh protection, denyhost will be the best imho
[17:26] <RoyK> kinygos: using both for the same services, will be jolly stupid
[17:31] <FalsAlarm> my server froze up an i couldnt even connect to ssh. i terminated the instance using my web hosting company provided control panel and started it back up, it booted back up fine and is working now.
[17:31] <FalsAlarm> how so i investigate what happened to it?
[17:31] <FalsAlarm> err, do
[17:34] <kinygos> RoyK: well...i'm quite naive...i couldn't believe how many people come knocking on my ssh door...since i put fail2ban on permanent ban, i'm still banning 3-4 new addresses a day...
[17:35] <kinygos> RoyK: so on my todo list is a serious look at what other measures i can take to secure my server
[17:39] <RoyK> kinygos: there are people knocking all over
[17:39] <RoyK> kinygos: but so long your passwords are secure, they can knock all night
[17:40] <kinygos> RoyK: i use "knocking" in the kindest possible sense...i think it's criminal that they even try
[17:40]  * RoyK welcomes kinygos to the Internet
[17:40]  * kinygos rolls on the floor laughing
[17:41] <RoyK> lock the door with a safe key
[17:41] <RoyK> if you have a good password, they can probe on forever
[17:42] <kinygos> more than 7 characters, mixed-case letters, numbers, and non-alphanumeric characters....also root is not allowed
[17:44] <RoyK> http://stuff.group.is/ismypasswordsecure.php
[17:52] <lil_cain> Hi,
[17:52] <lil_cain> Is there a reason umount and mount are suid?
[17:53] <mdeslaur> lil_cain: so regular users can unmount and mount filesystems if they are allowed to in the fstab
[17:54] <lil_cain> fstab can allow regular users mount and umount filesystems?
[17:54] <mdeslaur> sure, if you put "user" in the fourth field
[17:55] <lil_cain> huh. I was not aware of this.
[17:55] <lil_cain> Cool, thanks.
[17:55] <mdeslaur> lil_cain: np
[18:15] <Aison> hello, I just managed to install ubuntu server on a very old machine ;)  would like to use it as NAS
[18:15] <Aison> what's the best filesystem for the "storage" drive, so that cpu usage is as low as possible?
[18:20] <RoyK> ext4 will do well
[19:31] <thesheff17> is there anyway to see a complete history of this irc chat?  I'm trying to find a chroot link I posted months ago but can't seem to find the right site.
[19:33] <Nafallo> thesheff17: you posted 4 links, which one are you after?
[19:34] <thesheff17> Nafallo: I'm not 100% sure...it had to do with a chroot env that I was helping someone with.
[19:34] <Nafallo> hmm. all of them about chrooting ssh, right?
[19:34] <thesheff17> Nafallo: yea
[19:36] <Nafallo> http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/howto-linux-unix-rssh-chroot-jail-setup.html http://www.howtoforge.com/chroot_ssh_sftp_debian_etch http://www.marthijnvandenheuvel.com/2010/03/10/how-to-create-a-chroot-ssh-user-in-ubuntu/
[19:36] <mdeslaur> thesheff17: archive is here, fyi: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
[19:37] <thesheff17> excellent thanks guys.
[19:43] <RoyK> !logs
[21:39] <abstrakt> how do I set up a mail server? I've set up apache countless times, but I've got a VPS and I want to switch over to that instead of this shared host for my website, but I don't want to loose my emails
[21:40] <AndyGraybeal> does anyone here use NFSv4 ACL's inheritance on their machines?  Does it make it so when you copy a file to a folder, the file inherits the folders permissions?
[23:58] <lifeless> SpamapS: ping