[02:50]  * FJKong fell asleep last night..
[04:30] <pitti> Good morning
[06:03] <didrocks> good morning
[06:10] <larsu> morning!
[06:12] <seb128> good morning desktopers!
[06:34]  * pitti waves to the desktoppers, guten Morgen!
[06:34] <didrocks> good morning pitti
[06:37] <seb128> hey pitti!
[07:53] <willcooke> morningla
[07:53] <willcooke> er
[07:53] <willcooke> morning all
[07:55] <didrocks> hey willcooke
[07:56] <seb128> hey willcooke
[08:03] <Laney> hup hup hup
[08:03] <didrocks> hup Laney too
[08:06] <Laney> hey didrocks
[08:06] <Laney> vat iz up
[08:08] <seb128> hey Laney
[08:08] <seb128> hoe gaat het?
[08:09] <Laney> alles goed!
[08:09] <Laney> en met jou?
[08:09] <seb128> goed, danku :-)
[08:10] <Laney> dutch high five!
[08:10] <seb128> :-)
[08:13]  * Laney screams at all iso builds failing
[08:13] <Laney> looks like debootstrap is busticated
[08:21] <Laney> woah
[08:21] <Laney> "Could not apply the stored configuration for monitors"
[08:21] <Laney> and it's in like 640x480
[08:22] <Laney> okay, 1024x768, but that's just as bad :P
[08:22] <Laney> "Unknown display"
[08:25] <seb128> Laney, when/how?
[08:26] <Laney> just now when I booted
[08:26] <Laney> could have been not quite plugged in correctly, works now after jiggling the cable
[08:26] <Laney> or re-detecting would have worked anyway
[08:26] <Laney> see if it happens again
[08:26] <seb128> k, still weird :-/ if it can't apply the config it should default to whatever xorg is doing which should be the native resolution
[08:27] <Laney> it had a big error about not being able to query the EDID
[08:27] <Laney> so probably defaulted to some emergency/safe resolution
[08:40] <Laney> ah, pitti is fixing debootstrap already
[08:40] <Laney> that is the best news!
[08:40] <pitti> Laney: yeah, fixed now
[08:41] <pitti> Laney: yesterday evening's first attempt didn't work, so this morning I added some debugging to debootstrap (most importantly hte ability to use a local .deb), and fixed it for good
[08:41] <Laney> I got 36 or so emails about isos failing to build :-)
[08:41] <pitti> got accepted into wily some 20 mins ago (argh slow adt-nova argh), should hit archive.u.c. any minute now
[08:41]  * Laney retries ubuntu as a test
[08:44] <seb128> pitti, are you looking at the shotwell autopkgtest issue? just asking to not dup work
[08:46] <Laney> oh weird, I was going to merge that one soon, was on my list
[08:51] <pitti> seb128: I'm not; I just had a quick look, and it's due to uninstallability (so not infrastructure)
[08:51] <seb128> pitti, k
[08:51] <seb128> Laney, that one = ?
[08:51] <Laney> shotwell
[08:52] <seb128> please do
[08:52] <seb128> I just mentioned it because I got emailed by jenkins
[08:52] <Laney> seems someone already did?
[08:52] <Laney> or was it 0ubuntu1?
[08:52] <Laney> ah yes
[08:53] <Laney> uninstallability> doesn't look like it - seems like an autopilot failure to me
[08:53] <seb128> shrug
[08:53] <seb128> robert_ancell updated it
[08:54] <Laney> let the uploader deal with it ;-)
[08:54] <seb128> yeah, I was unsure if those evdev warning were normal
[08:55] <Laney> seems you only get stdout if it fails, so can't confirm from a successful run
[08:56] <seb128> I'm going to beat robert_ancell with a stack for that update
[08:56] <seb128> well, after I try it :p
[09:01] <seb128> I emailed upstream with https://mail.gnome.org/archives/shotwell-list/2015-February/msg00000.html
[09:02] <seb128> unsure if robert_ancell did something about it
[09:03] <Laney> oh, it got a headerbar?
[09:03] <Laney> quite glad that he got to it first then :)
[09:04] <seb128> hehe
[09:07] <pitti> Laney: ah, it is now; the previous run (#16) was uninstallability (http://d-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/job/wily-adt-shotwell/16/ARCH=i386,label=adt/console)
[09:07] <pitti> but that's fixed now indeed
[09:07] <Laney> nod, sorry, didn't look back at all
[09:07] <pitti> Laney: so I suppose the UI changed, and the autopilot test needs adjusting
[09:08] <seb128> don't fix it
[09:08] <seb128> the update is buggy
[09:08] <seb128> emailing rob
[09:09] <Laney> tag a bug "block-proposed" + assign
[09:09] <Laney> it looks okay to me though
[09:09] <Laney> where do you see a problem?
[09:10] <seb128> Laney, open the preferences dialog
[09:10] <seb128> or the export one
[09:10] <seb128> or the publish one
[09:10] <seb128> e.g any dialog
[09:10] <seb128> Laney, https://mail.gnome.org/archives/shotwell-list/2015-February/msg00002.html has details
[09:10] <Laney> oh just the dialogs, I see!
[09:12] <seb128> yeah
[09:12] <seb128> "just"
[09:12] <seb128> :-)
[09:13] <Laney> much better than it being the main UI
[09:13] <Laney> there's a property that you can watch for dialogs
[09:17] <seb128> I should have Cced you on that email to robert_ancell
[09:17] <seb128> want me to resend with you in Cc?
[09:22] <Laney> seb128: you can just give a link to https://git.gnome.org/browse/file-roller/commit/?id=0f2dab08dc8c577a89a32aeaa1f2467dcaf8c949 which is one I did a while ago
[09:22] <Laney> okay, shotwell is vala, but the idea is the same
[09:22] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[09:22] <Laney> other file-roller commits have more complex cases but it doesn't look like shotwell has those
[09:22] <Laney> e.g. custom items in the header, .ui files, etc
[09:23] <seb128> Laney, done
[09:23] <Laney> thx
[09:23] <seb128> thank *you* ;-)
[09:27] <seb128> Laney, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shotwell/+bug/1456965 as well
[09:33] <Laney> great
[10:38] <willcooke> upgraded my desktop-next machine and now all I have is a flashing caps-lock light
[10:38] <willcooke> :(
[10:38] <czajkowski> willcooke: oops
[10:39] <willcooke> One strange thing I noticed was that after the upgrade "reboot" and "shutdown" commands were seemingly missing
[11:50] <seb128> willcooke, kernel issue? did you try booting a previous one?
[11:50] <seb128> well at least the led is usually a kernel issue
[11:51] <willcooke> seb128, tbh I've screwed around with it so much I dont think there was a valid set up on there.
[11:51] <willcooke> I've resintalled and it's fine now
[11:51] <willcooke> Once I've got this demo sorted for the sales engineers I will see if I can break it again
[11:52] <seb128> or maybe your init got screwed, reboot should be there with systemd-sysv but I don't think that has to be there for the system to work
[11:52] <seb128> didrocks, pitti, ^ right?
[11:52] <seb128> willcooke, k
[11:55] <didrocks> leds flashing generally means a kernel issue, indeed
[11:55] <pitti> seb128, willcooke: maybe your $PATH didn't include /sbin/
[11:55] <pitti> ?
[11:56] <pitti> seb128, willcooke: reboot and friends are in upstart-sysv or systemd-sysv, and you should have either installed
[11:57] <seb128> didrocks, pitti, seems like willcooke reinstalled so I guess we are not going to debug that...
[11:57] <pitti> yeah
[11:58] <pitti> although I just noticed that init depends on systemd-sysv | upstart
[11:58] <pitti> that needs to be | upstart-sysv
[11:58] <pitti> (fix uploaded)
[11:58] <pitti> but that only seems tangential
[11:58] <willcooke> don't sweat it, that machine has had so many strange hacks applied it's not a valid install
[12:02] <seb128> pitti, I guess that .cache/upstart logs being mostly empty/non existant is a feature and session logs are supposed to be in the journal nowadays? (even things started from gnome-session)
[12:05] <pitti> seb128: no, not at all -- session bits haven't changed at all
[12:05] <pitti> I have tons of logs in ~/.cache/upstart
[12:06] <seb128> pitti, I've only 6 non .gz logs in there and most of the things are missing
[12:07] <seb128> journalctl seems to have a mix of session things as well
[12:18] <larsu> I thought everything started from gnome-session logs into the journal these days?!
[12:21] <seb128> seems so
[12:22] <didrocks> popey: my eyes!
[12:22] <larsu> think of his eyes!
[12:22] <seb128> larsu, hey, that's a bit confusing still, need to get used to it I guess
[12:23] <seb128> the journalctl log is just not well formatted and not easy to read
[12:23] <larsu> seb128: yeah... it's definitely worse right now than what we had, since some things are in the journal and some aren't
[12:23] <larsu> seb128: use gnome-logs ;) (and read the journalctl man page, it's got some good stuff)
[12:24] <seb128> larsu, is gnome-logs packaged?
[12:24] <seb128> seems it is
[12:24] <larsu> seb128: yes, but I don't know which version tbh (you need the one with my patches *cough*)
[12:24] <seb128> I should perhaps try it (or we should perhaps ship it by default if it's good?)
[12:24] <seb128> 3.14.2 it seems
[12:24] <larsu> yes, it is and we should
[12:24] <larsu> I've been planning some more stuff for it, but didn't have time yet
[12:25] <larsu> I can add menubar etc. upstream if we decide to ship it
[12:26] <seb128> cool
[12:41] <mdeslaur> pitti: you're upower upstreeam, aren't you?
[12:41] <mdeslaur> pitti: think you could review my patch when you get a chance? https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90222
[12:43] <popey> didrocks: :D
[12:44] <pitti> mdeslaur: oh, with a test case! ♥
[12:46] <mdeslaur> pitti: of course! :)
[12:46] <seb128> some other potential patches on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upower/+patches ;-)
[12:47] <mdeslaur> seb128: hey, mine first :)
[12:47] <pitti> seb128: oh, I didn't know about +patches, nice!
[12:47] <seb128> pitti, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/206524480/0001-rules-support-Logitech-Unifying-in-Linux-3.19.patch seems like something useful
[12:47] <seb128> that's bug #1448834
[12:48] <mdeslaur> seb128: I think that's upstream already
[12:48]  * mdeslaur remembers seeing something similar
[12:48] <seb128> mdeslaur, right, that bug is a request to backport to vivid
[12:48] <pitti> mdeslaur: how is your test different from _add_bt_mouse()?
[12:48]  * pitti compares the code in more detail
[12:48] <mdeslaur> pitti: device is "hid" and there is an extra "input" subdirectory
[12:50] <mdeslaur> ("hid" instead of "bluetooth")
[13:08] <pitti> mdeslaur: applied
[13:08] <pitti> seb128: cleaned up
[13:12] <mdeslaur> pitti: sweet! thanks! :)
[13:12] <seb128> pitti, danke
[13:14] <willcooke> qengho, pingaling
[13:15] <willcooke> hrm, contextless pings.  Must stop doing that
[13:25] <seb128> kenvandine, hey
[13:25] <seb128> kenvandine, what's the status of approved u-s-s fixes and landing?
[13:26] <seb128> kenvandine, it's a bit ridiculous that trivial/obvious one liner fixes like https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/ubuntu-system-settings/battery-correct-init-height/+merge/256115 don't land
[13:28] <kenvandine> seb128, hey, i'm trying to land a few at a time
[13:28] <kenvandine> but it's slow going
[13:28] <kenvandine> i can't land to wily first
[13:29] <seb128> why not?
[13:29] <kenvandine> because of the adt failures from autopilot/uitk
[13:29] <kenvandine> it gets held in proposed
[13:29] <seb128> can't we just flush think to wily?
[13:29] <kenvandine> they are working on that
[13:29] <seb128> are those real failures?
[13:29] <seb128> or buggy tools?
[13:29] <kenvandine> tools
[13:29] <seb128> can't we just override the results?
[13:29] <kenvandine> autopilot stuff that needs upstart
[13:30] <kenvandine> they have a fix, just last i heard it wasn't landed yet
[13:33] <kenvandine> seb128, do you know where the setting to enable ntp gets stored on disk?
[13:33] <kenvandine> we need to add the path to the whitelist so it persists on the read-only image
[13:36] <seb128> kenvandine, hum, let me check
[13:52] <seb128> kenvandine, what settings are you talking about? how do you enable/disable ntp? using the set-ntp timedated flag?
[13:52] <kenvandine> yes
[13:52] <kenvandine> that
[13:52] <kenvandine> org.freedesktop.timedate1
[13:54] <seb128> kenvandine, it enable/disable the job, at least under systemd
[13:54] <kenvandine> yeah, i just need to know how that gets stored
[13:54] <kenvandine> it's only persisting over reboots if the device is writable
[13:54] <kenvandine> not on read-only
[13:54] <kenvandine> so we're missing a path in the writable whitelist
[13:55] <seb128> kenvandine, seems to rename /etc/network/if-up.d/ntpdate to /etc/network/if-up.d/ntpdate.disabled
[13:55] <kenvandine> oh...
[13:56] <kenvandine> thanks!
[13:56] <seb128> yw!
[13:57] <kenvandine> seb128, about the landings, they'll speed up once the autopilot issue gets resolved
[13:57] <kenvandine> which should be soon...
[13:57] <seb128> kenvandine, can't we just override the test to get it to migrate?
[13:58] <seb128> or keep it in proposed and do other landings
[13:58] <kenvandine> there are lots of things we could do :)
[13:58] <seb128> that "charge graph has a wrong initial value" bug is stupid, that fix shouldn't take that long to land
[13:58] <kenvandine> but the fix should have been quicker than this
[13:58] <seb128> it should land in vivid as well imho
[13:58] <seb128> graphs look wrong atm
[13:58] <tjaalton> evolution-source-registry takes 370MB RAM on my desktop.. can I disable it somehow?
[13:58] <kenvandine> yeah, agreed
[13:58] <seb128> tjaalton, rm? mv? apt-get remove?
[13:58] <kenvandine> it has to be on the ota4 milestone or qa isn't going to look at it
[13:59] <seb128> kenvandine, let me ping Pat
[13:59] <tjaalton> good idea
[13:59] <seb128> tjaalton, does it take as much if you restart it?
[13:59] <kenvandine> seb128, and i'm quite busy on content-hub right now, so not much time to spin wheels on settings landings... i'd love some help getting landings in wily :)
[14:00] <seb128> kenvandine, I would be happy to handle landing if you refresh my memory on what to do
[14:00] <kenvandine> seb128, this systemd-shim and persistance is on the ota4 milestone, so gotta get that done too
[14:00] <seb128> kenvandine, I know how to drive the system, I'm just not uptodate on "politics"
[14:00] <kenvandine> easier for wily :)
[14:00] <seb128> no qa needed there?
[14:00] <kenvandine> and i bet you could get away with more than 3 fixes per silo for wily :)
[14:01] <seb128> can we just flush the pending queue to wily?
[14:01] <kenvandine> afaik we aren't gating on qa for wily right now
[14:01] <seb128> great
[14:01] <tjaalton> seb128: the parent seems to be upstart --user, but initctl doesn't show it
[14:01] <kenvandine> which worries me... because then if they block a backport to vivid later we have to rework stuff
[14:01] <kenvandine> but... they don't have the resources to verify every fix for wily and vivid
[14:02] <seb128> kenvandine, confirmed the file rename on my bq rtm rw btw
[14:02] <kenvandine> yeah, i did too
[14:02] <kenvandine> thanks for that!~
[14:02] <seb128> yw!
[14:02] <kenvandine> now to figure out who to go to about fixing that in lxc-android-config now
[14:03] <Laney> ...
[14:03] <seb128> kenvandine, good luck, I think rename don't play along with the bind mount hack
[14:03] <Laney> renames are bad
[14:04] <seb128> kenvandine, you might need something along http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-systemd/systemd.git/commit/?h=ubuntu&id=10f312d34a39cb2c5738d48705498fdfec38e9f0
[14:04] <seb128> in systemd-shim
[14:05] <seb128> e.g make it rename /etc/writable/... rather than the normal file
[14:05] <seb128> I just did a hack like that for whoopsie yesterday
[14:07] <kenvandine> seb128, so you know how to fix something like this?
[14:08] <kenvandine> maybe you could do it :)
[14:08] <seb128> kenvandine, lol, nice try
[14:08] <kenvandine> i have the partial systemd-shim fix in silo 35
[14:08] <seb128> well, I'm unsure that's needed there
[14:09] <seb128> and I can't see I'm a fan of the change I submitted for whoopsie
[14:09] <seb128> waiting for somebody to review that one first before considering copying that somewhere else
[14:09] <kenvandine> rsalveti, i assume you're not the guy to go to for lxc-android-config anymore?
[14:09] <Laney> it feels disturbing to be sprinkling this around everywhere
[14:10] <seb128> Laney, well, less disturbing that having our phone buggy for users
[14:10] <Laney> ...
[14:10] <seb128> Laney, do you see any other option?
[14:10] <seb128> +doable
[14:11] <Laney> don't know, could try to think
[14:11] <Laney> not interested in a trolling argument
[14:11] <seb128> well, me neither
[14:11] <Laney> I'm not saying that not fixing it is better
[14:11] <seb128> I'm just saying that we didn't figure out a better way to do this
[14:11] <Laney> but also doing weird hacks is not good
[14:11] <seb128> I don't like it either
[14:11] <seb128> right, I think we agree
[14:11] <seb128> I just don't have anything better to propose
[14:12] <seb128> it's the less sucky option we have atm afaik
[14:17] <kenvandine> rsalveti, got a minute to look at a fix we'll need related to writable paths and lxc-android-config to let us know if it would work?
[14:18] <kenvandine> enabling/disabling ntp  renames between /etc/network/if-up.d/ntpdate and /etc/network/if-up.d/ntpdate.disabled
[14:18] <kenvandine> rsalveti, is that something we can handle?
[15:35] <rsalveti> kenvandine: got a minute now :-)
[15:35] <rsalveti> guess this is the conversation that is happening at phablet now
[15:38] <kenvandine> yeah
[15:45]  * Laney screams at jffi
[15:46]  * larsu calms down Laney with a cookie and some tea (with milk)
[15:46] <Laney> I have jelly and tea atm
[15:46]  * Laney transmits a picture
[15:46] <larsu> ooh nice
[15:46] <larsu> please do transmit
[15:47]  * larsu wonders why totem resets active-plugins gsettings key when starting
[15:48] <Laney> I wonder what sin I committed in a previous life to be having to try and compehend java build systems
[15:48] <larsu> :(
[15:51] <larsu> wow. totem writes that key thrice on startup
[15:51] <Laney> hadessssssssssssssssssssssss
[15:51]  * larsu shaves yet another yak
[15:51] <larsu> seems to be libpeas' fault though
[15:51] <Laney> you have to fix this for that bug?
[15:52] <larsu> nope, I don't have to
[15:52] <larsu> I guess you're telling me to get my priorities straight? >P
[15:52] <Laney> ah, one of those
[15:52] <Laney> :P
[15:52] <Laney> up to you
[15:52] <larsu> I mostly need it to work to test turning on/off plugins
[15:53] <larsu> because they insert menu items
[15:53] <larsu> and apparently some are not turn-aoofable
[15:53] <larsu> *turn-offable
[15:53] <seb128> Laney, kenvandine, pitti, any comment/opinion on http://paste.ubuntu.com/11246865/ to filter out locales which correspond to a separate language?
[15:56] <seb128> Laney, kenvandine, pitti, basically list xx_YY.UTF-8 locales if xx=YY (to have e.g de_DE work, that's a "de" directory on disk) or if "xx_YY" exists in /usr/share/locale-langpacks
[15:58] <Laney> I think assuming that the country and the language are the same is a bad heuristic
[15:58] <Laney> fails for zh_CN for example
[15:58] <seb128> zh_CN has a dir with that name
[15:59] <Laney> It's just an example
[15:59] <seb128> it's to catch fr_FR having no fr_FR but only "fr" on disk
[15:59] <seb128> same for de_DE being de
[15:59] <Laney> I think that libicu has a facility for this if you are trying to keep the 'main' language
[15:59] <seb128> no, I don't want to keep the main language
[16:00] <seb128> because en_AU would give me "en" which is a dir on disk
[16:00] <seb128> but we don't want en_AU listed
[16:00] <Laney> what is this comparison doing in addition to looking at the directory?
[16:00] <seb128> making de_DE listed
[16:00] <seb128> because /usr/share/locale-langpack/de_DE doesn't exists
[16:01] <seb128> only /usr/share/locale-langpack/de
[16:01] <seb128> we would have no german listed at all without that bit
[16:01] <seb128> I assume that "xx_XX" is shortened to dir "xx"
[16:01] <seb128> but I might be wrong
[16:01] <Laney> the code already builds a list
[16:01] <Laney> so you can say 'give me the likely locale for "de"'
[16:01] <seb128> list of?
[16:02] <Laney> I think
[16:02] <Laney> or at least you could make it do that
[16:02] <seb128> hum
[16:02] <seb128> I'm not sure to understand what you mean "likely locale"
[16:02] <Laney> I remember attente adding some knowledge of this concept
[16:02] <Laney> he called it likely, it's what you're trying to do here I think
[16:02] <seb128>     // Should be true if locale is the default for its language.
[16:02] <seb128>     // e.g. 'en_US' is the likely locale for 'en', 'en_CA' is not.
[16:02] <seb128>     bool likely;
[16:02] <seb128> no
[16:03] <seb128> en_US has its own dir
[16:03] <seb128> I don't want that shortened
[16:03] <Laney> no
[16:03] <Laney> you could only do this lookup if you need to
[16:03] <seb128> that is reverse compared to what I want no?
[16:04] <Laney> so you have 'de', that's not a locale, so find out what the likely locale for 'de' is
[16:04] <seb128> well, I don't have "de"
[16:04] <seb128> I've the output of locale -a
[16:04] <seb128> de_CH.utf8
[16:04] <seb128> de_DE.utf8
[16:04] <seb128> de_LI.utf8
[16:04] <seb128> etc
[16:04] <seb128> and I want to filter out the ones with no translation installed in /usr/share/locale-langpacks
[16:05] <seb128> so my current way is to split .utf-8 and check if the remaining bit exists in the dir
[16:05] <desrt> pitti: hey... question...
[16:05] <seb128> that works for e.g en_US
[16:05] <seb128> or en_GB
[16:05] <Laney> so you want to list that directory, make sure they are all locales by doing this 'likely' lookup
[16:05] <desrt> pitti: is there some API i can use for apport to report an issue?
[16:05] <Laney> and then intersect this with the locale -a output
[16:06] <desrt> ie: i have a library that detects a critical problem, but can proceed anyway... and i don't want to bother the user
[16:06] <desrt> and i want apport to file a bug against the correct program, etc.
[16:06] <Laney> or do this step by step, whatever
[16:06] <larsu> desrt: yes, but please don't
[16:06] <seb128> Laney, sorry I don't understand :-(
[16:06] <larsu> desrt: instead, let's route all criticals to apport
[16:06] <desrt> larsu: that's sort of what i'm getting at...
[16:07] <larsu> desrt: ah, I thought you wanted to do that for the specific case we were discussing
[16:07] <desrt> well, that too
[16:07] <desrt> :)
[16:07] <seb128> Laney, what you described, the dir has "en", the locale list not, that wouldn't intersect ... or you would suggest to transform "en" to the likely locale, e.g "en_US"?
[16:07] <larsu> desrt: well, don't. :)
[16:07] <desrt> (for those who were not watching our private conversation: we're talking about the dconf-writes-on-startup problem)
[16:07] <attente> u-s-s should already be converting en to en_US iirc
[16:08] <larsu> man, I wanted to keep the mystery alive
[16:08] <desrt> larsu: sorry.  not friday yet :)
[16:08] <attente> at least for the purpose of listing it as the first 'en' locale
[16:08] <seb128> attente, right, what I'm trying to do is reverse
[16:08] <seb128> from the locales list, filter out those which don't have translations in /usr/share/locale-langpacks
[16:09] <Laney> seb128: Indeed
[16:09] <attente> seb128: oh, so if only 'en' is installed, then 'en_US' should still work even if it doesn't exist?
[16:09] <seb128> no
[16:09] <seb128> en_US has its own dir
[16:09] <seb128> but e.g de_DE doesn't
[16:09] <Laney> use de instead of en
[16:10] <Laney> :P
[16:10] <seb128> I though that maybe xx_XX cases would short to "xx"
[16:10] <seb128> so I check for that
[16:10] <attente> oh. that doesn't work?
[16:10] <seb128> Laney is challenging it being the right thing to do
[16:10] <seb128> it does
[16:10] <attente> lol
[16:10] <larsu> desrt: ARGH this is even wrong in the docs: https://developer.gnome.org/libpeas/1.14/PeasEngine.html#PeasEngine--loaded-plugins
[16:10] <seb128> it's just that Laney think the likey thing is better
[16:10] <seb128> so I'm trying to wrap my head around that
[16:11] <attente> the likely thing is only going from 'en' -> 'en_US' though
[16:11] <seb128> it seems more complex to me so far, but maybe I'm going to be able to grasp it ;-)
[16:11] <attente> not in the other direction
[16:11] <seb128> yeah
[16:11] <Laney> you have en_US in the list of locales
[16:11] <attente> i'm not sure how to do the other direction other than just trim the suffix
[16:11] <seb128> I think Laney wants me to throw the dirnames to the likely() converter
[16:11] <Laney> yes
[16:11] <seb128> and use that list
[16:11] <seb128> that seems more work though
[16:11] <seb128> I'm trying to think if I agree it's a better way ;-)
[16:11] <Laney> doesn't the code have this list anyway?
[16:12] <Laney> or almost have it
[16:12] <seb128> not yet at the place I want to exclude locales
[16:13] <Laney> is there going to be a separate place for format locales?
[16:14] <seb128> not in the current design
[16:14] <seb128> but who knows in the futur
[16:15] <Laney> what about things which aren't translated via langpacks?
[16:16] <Laney> I suppose we don't include all locales currently
[16:16] <seb128> huum
[16:16] <seb128> no, the goal is to list things that have translations on the device
[16:16] <seb128> no point picking a language which is not installed
[16:17] <Laney> they're not all installed centrally though
[16:17] <seb128> if a language has no string in the langpack I guess we can claim it's not translated enough to be supported
[16:17] <Laney> not sure how click packages are translated
[16:17] <seb128> you mean?
[16:17] <Laney> but I would guess that they ship that themselves
[16:17] <Laney> or any universe app
[16:17] <seb128> right
[16:17] <Laney> can't select those languages
[16:18] <seb128> well, you don't want to advertise a language if the base OS has 0 translation for it
[16:18] <seb128> even if some click has some
[16:19] <seb128> it's like "oh, nice, esperanto is listed in the languages (because d_sert submitted and app and included some translations)
[16:19] <seb128> but then you select it and nothing displays in esperanto
[16:19] <seb128> -> disappointed
[16:20] <seb128> the langpack approximation is not perfect but I think it's good enough?
[16:20] <Laney> oh I translated my favourite app to my language becaue my english isn't very good but the system won't let me pick it :(
[16:21] <attente> oh. so this is a question of whether filtering by installed langpacks is the right thing to do to begin with
[16:21] <Laney> I moved it on a bit ;-)
[16:21] <Laney> that is also a problem with what we have atm
[16:22] <seb128> Laney, well, it's about setting expectations as well
[16:22] <seb128> anyway, I discussed it for over an hour yesterday with mpt
[16:22] <Laney> I could imagine "install additional languages" which downloads the langpack
[16:22] <Laney> and maybe shows you % translated if that's possible
[16:22] <seb128> we didn't find a good/robust way to flag valid languages
[16:23] <seb128> we need something that simply the current list even if not perfect
[16:23] <seb128> Laney, sure, I'm happy to revisit our code the day we have click langpacks
[16:23] <Laney> I'm not rejecting your solution
[16:23] <seb128> which is on the roadmap
[16:23] <seb128> but not being worked on yet
[16:23] <Laney> it's okay to suggest ways in which it could be better though
[16:23] <seb128> yes
[16:23] <seb128> I would like to land the first step though
[16:23] <seb128> then we can discuss futur
[16:24] <seb128> we sort of collide both topics now and I'm unsure which ones you would like to see fixed for the first landing
[16:24] <Laney> that's why I gave you feedback on the code first
[16:24] <Laney> and then started talking about the merts of the approach
[16:24] <seb128> yeah, just trying to recap what needs to be changed
[16:25] <seb128> so you would for the first landing do a dirList.likelyLocale() iteration to transform the list
[16:25] <seb128> then match on that?
[16:25] <Laney> one second, moving back upstairs
[16:25] <Laney> getting cold
[16:25] <seb128> why do you think it's better than the simple xx=XX check?
[16:25] <pitti> seb128: that won't work in some cases like sv_SE, or sr_RS@latin, but probably a good first heuristics
[16:26]  * pitti <- just a quick drive by; sorry, uber-busy today, and need to leave to sports
[16:26] <pitti> desrt: the python API is quite rich; for C, you basically need to drop a report file into /var/crash
[16:26] <seb128> pitti, ok, thanks
[16:26] <pitti> desrt: we have some helpers like /usr/share/apport/recoverable_problem which you can call with arguments
[16:27] <pitti> desrt: maybe you can already use that, maybe we need someting similar
[16:27]  * pitti waves, sorry
[16:27] <seb128> pitti, do you know of a better heuristic?
[16:27] <desrt> pitti: i'll take a look
[16:27] <desrt> thanks
[16:27] <seb128> pitti, have a good evening
[16:27] <seb128> pitti, let's chat tomorrow
[16:34] <Laney> seb128: I just installed all langpacks and there's 'xh' which corresponds to 'xh_ZA' and 'te' -> 'te_IN' for example
[16:35] <seb128> Laney, yeah, pitti mentioned sr_RS
[16:35] <Laney> ya
[16:36] <Laney> actually only en and zh have variants translated it seems
[16:38] <didrocks> have good evening guys
[16:38] <Laney> this guy quits too fast
[16:38] <desrt> +1
[16:43] <seb128> Laney, so you think maybe not listing variants out of en_XX zn_XX ones?
[16:45] <Laney> those are the ones we have now but I guess there could be more in future
[16:46] <Laney> I was mainly trying to support my original idea ;)
[16:46] <larsu> desrt: I need a hidden-when=action-missing-or-disabled
[16:46] <seb128> Laney, would your original idea work in all cases?
[16:46] <seb128> I'm trying to do that bug get some issues
[16:47] <Laney> if the likely information is right ...
[16:48] <seb128> qWarning() << "likely" << likelyLocaleForLanguage[language];
[16:48] <seb128> that always return "" for me
[16:48] <seb128> I'm probably doing something wrong
[16:48] <seb128> or that code doesn't work
[16:50] <seb128> shrug, the likely things works by calling "/usr/share/language-tools/language2locale"
[16:50] <seb128> which is some script hackery
[16:56] <Laney> ah that contains the mapping
[16:56] <Laney> would be better if that was dynamic, not sure if anywhere has this info
[16:57] <desrt> larsu: 'disabled' also hides actions when they're missing
[16:57] <desrt> since missing actions are always disabled...
[16:57] <larsu> oh that makes sense of course! thanks :)
[17:00] <seb128> Laney, thanks for the input, I think I'm going to think about this overnight
[17:00] <seb128> I don't like much that likely thing
[17:01] <seb128> calling some external shell script on every locale
[17:01] <seb128> that probably contribute to that panel being slow to open
[17:01] <seb128> I would like to remove that rather than stack more use to it
[17:01] <Laney> it's not going to make it be called any more times ...
[17:01] <seb128> so maybe just loading the file with the map list
[17:02] <seb128> right, but I want to remove those calls now that I saw them :p
[17:02] <Laney> I don't care for the specifics, it's the idea
[17:02] <seb128> thanks
[17:02] <Laney> it basically comes down to reading this main-countries file and some fallback cases
[17:03] <seb128> yeah
[17:03] <seb128> those locales things are more difficult that they should be :-/
[17:03] <seb128> on that note have a good evening everyone
[17:04] <seb128> Laney, thanks again for the feedback ;-)
[17:04] <Laney> seb128: you could make it accept multiple inputs and output them all, then you only have to call it once
[17:04] <Laney> instead of reimplementing it in C++ ;-)
[17:04] <Laney> no worries
[17:04] <Laney> bye from me too!
[17:05] <seb128> bye :-)
[17:05] <Laney> god damn jffi defeated me
[17:05] <Laney> i'll be back tomorrow to take it on again
[17:08]  * willcooke -> EOD
[17:09] <desrt> this guy quits too fast


[09:41] <hathor008> hmm
[09:47] <netphreak> hi, guys!
[18:57] <hathor008> hm does anyone have any examples for MonoGame deployment?
[20:48] <sethj> "version" is the version of the snap itself, right? Not the app?
[21:10] <hathor008> hrm i'm confused about how to deploy my app the samples aren't really showing me what to do
[21:14] <hathor008> I have a folder with a bunch of files in it, one of which is an executable shell script, just want it to dump the files into a folder and use the shell script as the command
[23:23] <sethj>     ERROR: Python module dbus not found
[23:23] <sethj>     ERROR: Python module dbus.service not found
[23:23] <sethj> how would I ensure these modules are avaible for my snap?


[02:41] <pangolin> PerfM: any reason for idling in here?
[02:42] <PerfM> I wanted to see how long I could last b4 someone told me to gtfo
[02:42] <PerfM> I did pretty good today huh!
[02:43] <pangolin> 39 minutes. Now please /part :)
[02:43] <PerfM> 39 mins?!
[02:43] <PerfM> Thats sooo good!
[02:44] <PerfM> pangolin, just pretend I'm not here
[02:44] <pangolin> PerfM: you know I can;t do that.
[02:44] <pangolin> can't*
[02:45] <pangolin> PerfM: I feel I should let you know that every time you join here for no good reason that 3 month time period starts over.
[02:45] <PerfM> pangolin, thats so cute
[02:45] <pangolin> I try
[02:45] <PerfM> I'm really okay with that
[02:45] <PerfM> I'd rather be a staffer anyways, so much cooler and all~
[02:46] <pangolin> So, you think you could make this easy on me and /part without a fight?
[02:46] <PerfM> pangolin, fight with my bff!? Never
[02:46] <PerfM> pangolin, but if worse came to worse, are you trying to tell me that you would kick me out?
[02:47] <pangolin> rules apply equally to bffs
[02:47] <PerfM> <3 broken
[04:26] <en1gmaa> hey guys can someone explain to me what is going on with the ops. i think it is because of yesterday when i got warned for talking OT and then i came in here and told the story and i think it was concluded i was not actually OT...so first time i go OT like a min ago
[04:26] <en1gmaa> i get "how many times we have to warn you"?
[04:26] <en1gmaa> what is going on
[04:27] <pangolin> what is going on is you got warned yesterday and came back today and were offtopic again
[04:27] <en1gmaa> i got warned and it was founded that i should not have been
[04:27] <en1gmaa> i was OT
[04:27] <en1gmaa> i mean On Topic
[04:27] <pangolin> Unity sucks! WE GET IT. we don't need you blogging about it in #ubuntu it is not the place for it.
[04:27] <en1gmaa> if you are going to quote me i do not mind
[04:28] <en1gmaa> but please quote me
[04:28] <pangolin> now. I am in a bad mood so I am going to step away but please read the !guidelines and if you have any questions feel free to ask in here and someone will answer them.   :P
[05:08] <Jordan_U> tonyyarusso: I didn't realize that !ot was already on the line since it was off the screen on my phone.
[05:08] <tonyyarusso> ah
[13:48] <Myrtti> I had to lol
[13:49] <Myrtti> someone had suggested in the community survey the age old "let's split up #ubuntu bcoz iz too crowded" trick
[14:40] <Pici> !dmb
[14:42] <Pici> !dmb is <reply> The Developer Membership Board handles applications for new developer privileges. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess for more details. For DMB attention, try !dmb-ping.
[14:42] <Pici> !dmb-ping is <reply> bdrung, cody-somerville, persia, Laney, micahg, geser, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
[15:29] <Pici> "omniirc"
[15:29] <genii-around> h00k: The waxrose_/Fuchs/robinetd thing was starting to remind me for some reason of the old Abbot and Costello skit ....
[15:29] <h00k> genii-around: If you throw the ball to first base, who gets it?
[15:29] <h00k> Naturally!
[15:30] <genii-around> Heh
[22:17] <PerfM> pangolin, did you get my dedication describing how much I adore our friendship?
[22:19] <elky> PerfM, please stop this.
[22:19] <PerfM> lol
[22:19] <PerfM> I'm sorry -_-
[22:20] <PerfM> elky, I can dedicate things to you too
[22:20] <elky> I'd much rather you just left us alone.
[22:21] <PerfM> But I love you guys <3
[22:21] <PerfM> well, actually, I've never talked to half of you
[22:21] <PerfM> but I'm sure if you let me, I would <3 you
[22:22] <PerfM> fien fien fien
[22:22] <LjL> laughing and rolling eyes at the same time
[22:31] <pangolin> ftr I did see the dedication and it was heart warming.
[22:31] <elky> heh


[04:29] <kotux> Hello
[14:42] <melodie> hi
[18:52] <bogstad> I've been looking into the docs for Ubuntu 12.04 and there doesn't seem to be a standard way to install local copies of either the installation manual or the server guide.  I could use wget to snarf the html/pdf files, but that doesn't seem like the right thing to do.   Is there a package that I can install which will install local copies of that documentation?
[18:57] <melodie> bogstad have you looked in the "books" section of the software center ? I'm not sure but perhaps could you find something there, or in a "doc" section...
[18:57] <melodie> or just do a "apt-cache search doc"... not sure which way is the best, it's just ideas, apt-file could be helpful too perhaps
[18:58] <bogstad> Not yet.  I've been using synaptic rather then the software center.
[19:09] <bogstad> It looks like the installation guides (per architecture) is available in the software center (as well as synaptic).   I guess I didn't look hard enough.   Still no sign of the server guide though.


[06:47] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: New Theme Brings libadwaita’s Sleek Looks to Older GTK Apps @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/01/libadwaita-gtk3-theme (by Joey Sneddon)


[03:12] <roothorick> how's the best way to install an old kernel to test for a possible regression?
[08:07] <hardboot> which nvidia drivers are safe to use atm
[08:08] <hardboot> it looks like 304 is the newest safe
[08:36] <lucious77> hello, anyone can tell current mir/u8 state for 14.04 ? installation the same as for 13.10 ?
[13:20] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[19:54] <bazhang> !find scope
[19:54] <bazhang> !find unity-scope


[00:00] <mathrick> mwhudson: yeah
[00:01] <cyberix> still imports the one from site-packages
[00:02] <mwhudson> cyberix: what exactly are you doing?
[00:02] <mwhudson> can you pastebin a session?
[00:03] <cyberix> Just trying to run selftest on a vanilla "checkout" from lp:bzr
[00:04] <mathrick> mwhudson: it seems to be true for bzr+ssh:// as well
[00:04] <Verterok> cyberix: that's weird. try removing/not using your current PYTHONPATH, i.e: PYTHONPATH=/path/to/branch
[00:04] <mwhudson> mathrick: i'm not surprised there
[00:05] <mathrick> why not?
[00:05] <cyberix> http://pastebin.com/d73a21e3
[00:09] <mwhudson> mathrick: because the code for bzr:// and bzr+ssh:// is basically the same at this level
[00:09] <cyberix> Verterok: That doesn't change anything
[00:09] <mwhudson> cyberix: hm, seems to be loading the system plugins
[00:10] <mwhudson> which is wrong, but less wrong than what you first said
[00:12] <cyberix> oh
[00:14] <cyberix> Any further suggestions?
[00:15] <Verterok> cyberix: you can use the --no-plugins option
[00:15] <mwhudson> ./bzr --no-plugins selftest
[00:16] <Verterok> cyberix: also there is the BZR_PLUGIN_PATH env var, in the case that you want to include some plugins in the selftest
[00:24] <mathrick> mwhudson: ok, do you see a fix?
[00:25] <mathrick> I need to know if I should invest into making it work, or rather take care of the reading part of my app
[00:25] <mwhudson> mathrick: not really looked yet
[00:25] <mathrick> aha
[00:25] <mwhudson> mathrick: i wonder if i can trick spiv into fixing it
[00:25] <mathrick> hehe
[00:25] <mwhudson> spiv: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/175570
[00:26] <mathrick> I think he should feel morally obliged to fix it, he knew the bug number instantly when I mentioned it :)
[00:26] <mwhudson> smart server/remote branches is something he knows more than most about
[00:27]  * mathrick wonders if that is a good thing
[00:28] <cyberix> thanks that helped
[00:29] <spiv> mathrick: "instantly" is a bit of an exaggeration :)
[00:29] <cyberix> going to sleep now
[00:29] <cyberix> good night
[00:30] <spiv> I had to search Launchpad, but happily searching bugs.launchpad.net/bzr for "cat ObjectNotLocked" found exactly 1 bug.
[00:34] <mathrick> excuses
[00:51] <mwhudson> spiv: do you know about the locking thing off hand?
[00:59] <spiv> locking thing?
[01:00] <mathrick> spiv: the bug I ran into
[01:00] <mwhudson> spiv: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/27148/
[01:03] <spiv> mwhudson: that has the same root cause as 175570, I believe
[01:04] <spiv> There's another related bug report or two, as well.
[01:04] <mwhudson> spiv: well, i was more thinking that it could be the root cause for that bug
[01:05] <spiv> mwhudson: well, that's a symptom, not a cause ;)
[01:05] <mwhudson> spiv: ok
[01:05] <spiv> The cause is roughly that RemoteBranch.lock_read doesn't call lock_read on its repo.
[01:05] <spiv> But just simply doing that breaks other things.
[01:06] <spiv> There's a discussion of this on the list and/or this mysterious other bug report I'm alluding to.
[01:06] <mwhudson> hm
[01:06] <spiv> mwhudson: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/237067
[01:07] <mwhudson> spiv: yay google
[01:07] <mwhudson> (i just found that too)
[03:49] <CrashTest_> Aha!  I was going to ask a good-ole' stupid question, but I found the answer<EMAIL_ADDRESS>works<EMAIL_ADDRESS>does not :)  Silly little ~
[05:28] <lifeless> woo, 1.6Million key btrees , no memory _explosion_
[05:29] <lifeless> (and thats not the limit, that was just disk spilling when it blew up cause it exceeded the header size)
[09:25] <lifeless> megarepo test on b+tree indices:
[09:26] <lifeless> 115M    .bzr/repository/indices
[09:26] <lifeless> down from
[09:26] <lifeless> 444M    backup.bzr/repository/indices/
[09:26] <lifeless> poolie: oh yeha, hi :)
[09:55] <poolie> night all
[10:21] <pagenoare> hi
[10:22] <pagenoare> anybody using bzrweb with bzr 1.5rc1? :D
[10:50] <awilkins> lifeless: But are b-trees Faster too?
[11:28] <lifeless> awilkins: igc mailed the list with some results
[11:28] <lifeless> awilkins: executive summary: much faster at some things; a bit slower at others, ~= on the rest.
[12:00] <gabe> hi all
[12:01] <gabe> wondering if someone might be able to help me out with a bzr related problem
[12:01] <gabe> get the following error: bzr: ERROR: [Error 32] ╧ЁюЎхёё эх ьюцхЄ яюыєўшЄ№ фюёЄєя ъ Їрщыє,
[12:01] <gabe>  ╧ЁюЎхёё эх ьюцхЄ яюыєўшЄ№ фюёЄєя ъ Їрщыє, is unreadable meaningless heap of letters!
[12:01] <gabe> reported it on https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/237305
[12:04] <Odd_Bloke> gabe: What OS are you using?
[12:11] <gabe> that's on windows vista with bzr 1.5
[12:13] <Odd_Bloke> Hmm, I don't really know enough about Windows to be able to help you debug. :(
[12:13] <gabe> i know enough about Windows not to use it!
[12:13] <Odd_Bloke> gabe: That said, attaching the relevant part of .bzr.log to the bug report would probably be helpful.
[12:13] <gabe> it's actually a russian friend with the problem
[12:13] <gabe> trying to help him solve it..
[12:14] <gabe> i'll see if i can get hold of bzr log
[12:24] <Splodge> Hi, I'm hoping somebody here can help me: is it possible to compare two branches in bzr?
[12:24] <Splodge> I have a trunk on the server which I've 'branch'ed to my PC. Then, to test things, I updated some files in the working tree and committed them to the local copy of the branch (what's the proper term for this - local mirror?). The question is, is it possible to compare the local copy containing the commits, to the branch on the server in a nice, simple way? Or am I approaching development...
[12:24] <Splodge> ...with bzr incorrectly?
[12:25] <Kinnison> cd local-branch
[12:25] <Kinnison> bzr diff http://path/to/remote/branch
[12:25] <bob2> 'bzr missing' will show the different commits on each, or you can use bzr diff to show diffs
[12:28] <lifeless> gabe: sounds liek the error isn't encoding correctly on output
[12:31] <Splodge>  Ah I see.
[12:31] <Splodge> 'diff' doesn't show anything for me, but 'missing' does list the extra revisions I have locally.
[12:31] <Splodge> And the --verbose item will show extra details on the changes to files etc.
[12:31] <Splodge> That's just what I was looking for. Thank you.
[12:34] <gabe> thanks
[12:35] <gabe> I got a section of the bzr log attached to the bug report, it's here... http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16008570/bzr.log
[13:02] <lifeless> gabe: thanks
[13:17] <awilkins> gabe: ERr 32 is an IO error ; probably a file being held open by another process
[13:18] <awilkins> gabe: Which shell are you using? THe error text looks like it's in unicode or something
[13:36] <awilkins> gabe: Looks like an eastern European error message for err 32. Your local encoding is cp866 so I presume you are cyrillic by nature...
[13:41] <gabe> yeah it's actually a russian friend I am asking on behalf of
[13:41] <gabe> what info do you need?
[13:43] <awilkins> gabe: Well, it's an IO error during a tree transform ; I would suspect that another process has a lock on one of those files
[13:43] <lifeless> hmm, I was going to say bzr --version
[13:43] <lifeless> but it doesn't include the encoding
[13:43] <lifeless> gabe: does your friend see a readable error?
[13:43] <gabe> what he sees is what I pasted here
[13:43] <gabe> error 32 etc
[13:43] <gabe> and some unreadable junk too
[13:44] <lifeless> gabe: if what he sees is correctly encoded cp866 he will be able to read it even though we can't
[13:44] <gabe> he's used bzr for a while
[13:44] <gabe> no problem
[13:44] <lifeless> thats the nature of encoding
[13:44] <gabe> yeah but he said it is junk
[13:44] <gabe> unreadable even to him
[13:44] <lifeless> gabe: so I'm tryingt o understand if *he* can read it, not if the copy and pasted stuff is unreadable
[13:44] <lifeless> ok
[13:44] <lifeless> so there are two issues: why the error, and the error being unprintable
[13:44] <gabe> he has a checkout of a branch
[13:44] <gabe> and been doing about 25 --local commits
[13:44] <lifeless> as for why the error, does he have an editor open on a file or something?
[13:45] <gabe> then wanted to commit back to the repo
[13:45] <gabe> but it said he needed to bzr up
[13:45] <gabe> so he did bzr up and got this
[13:45] <jelmer> hey *
[13:45] <gabe> some conflicts
[13:45] <gabe> and errors
[13:45] <awilkins> He has a file open
[13:45] <lifeless> gabe: I would guess an editor open on a file
[13:45] <gabe> ok
[13:45] <awilkins> It's during a rename
[13:45] <lifeless> jelmer: hi
[13:45] <gabe> i'll make sure he quits any editors and tries again
[13:45] <awilkins> Windows ia waaay more picky about files being open when it writes over them
[13:46] <beuno> mornin' all
[13:46] <jelmer> lifeless: How were things at GUADEC?
[13:46] <lifeless> jelmer: intense :)
[13:46] <lifeless> many positive discussions, some rather more neagative
[13:47] <beuno> lifeless, any guesses on what the outcome for VCS choice will be?
[13:47] <jelmer> lifeless: what in particular were the negative ones about?
[13:49] <lifeless> jelmer: some folk felt that canonical was pushing bzr (rather than us being there because gnome devs *wanted* support for bzr)
[13:49] <lifeless> jelmer: and there were some rather opinionated folk that didn't want a dialogue, but instead wanted to tell me how stupid it was to even hack on bzr given that git exists
[13:50] <jelmer> lifeless: wow, ok
[13:50] <lifeless> beuno: no idea yet
[13:51] <Kinnison> The number of people who think that git is the be-all-and-end-all, perfect, etc. does surprise me
[13:51] <Kinnison> esp. given how I cannot get on with it no matter how hard I try
[13:51] <lifeless> Kinnison: the number of them that have used bzr in anger appears to approach zero
[13:51] <Kinnison> lifeless: surprise surprise.
[13:51]  * Kinnison wishes git was easier and nicer
[13:52]  * Kinnison gave up and did his kernel module dev in bzr and supplied a patch to the kernel guys
[13:52] <Kinnison> because I just can't get git to be of any use to me
[13:52] <jelmer> lifeless: Thanks for the update
[13:53] <lifeless> jelmer: should have a interseting ssvn bug for you soon
[13:53] <jelmer> I'm looking forward to it ;-)
[13:54] <pbor> lifeless: did you persuade any gnomers (that currently use svn/git) to at least try bzr?
[13:54] <lifeless> pbor: yes
[13:54] <pbor> cool
[13:54] <lifeless> rob taylor from codethink appears quite excited :)
[13:54] <asabil> lifeless: are you serious ?
[13:54] <lifeless> Jc2k: how's your head? recovering from guadec?
[13:54] <lifeless> asabil: about what?
[13:54] <asabil> about rob taylor
[13:54] <pbor> getting people to actually try it is the only way to gain user base :-)
[13:55] <lifeless> asabil: yes
[13:55] <asabil> wow !
[13:55] <Jc2k> lifeless: my brain is at about 25% usefulness
[13:55] <asabil> last time I talked to him (a year ago), he was worshiping git
[13:55] <lifeless> asabil: he's had Jc2k hammering on him way before guadec :) I just added the straw I think
[13:55]  * Jc2k nods
[13:55] <asabil> lol :)
[13:55] <Jc2k> not just that though
[13:55] <asabil> well done Jc2k ^^
[13:56] <Jc2k> he's been poking the Git source code for his project
[13:56] <asabil> we need more of you
[13:56] <Jc2k> and Git source would finish anyone of
[13:56] <Jc2k> f
[13:56] <Jc2k> its horrible in there.
[13:56] <pbor> haha
[13:57] <asabil> I think bzr developers maybe should start blogging code snippets from git's source code
[13:57] <asabil> maybe that would shed some light on the evil dark corners of git :p
[13:58] <beuno> jelmer, btw, which BB are we using for bzr-gtk?  it seems we have 2 fighting over it now
[13:58] <jelmer> beuno, vernstok.nl is still the primary one
[13:58] <jelmer> until the one on Aarons machine has the right details
[13:58] <beuno> jelmer, cool, I'm back home now, so I should be able to go through the remaining reviews, and merge some of them
[13:58] <jelmer> cool
[13:59] <beuno> sorry I've been so unresponsive, but I've had a few unusual weeks  :)
[14:00] <fullermd> Heck, I've had a few unusual _months_...
[14:05] <awilkins> vila: Ping?
[14:10] <mtaylor> guys, I love you all, but this: bzr: ERROR: Repository KnitPackRepository() is  not compatible with repository KnitPackRepository()
[14:10] <mtaylor> is quite possibly the worst error message in the history of mankind
[14:10] <lifeless> mtaylor: totally
[14:11] <jelmer> mtaylor: Couldn't agree more
[14:11] <lifeless> mtaylor: and I'm embarrased
[14:11] <mtaylor> ok.
[14:11] <lifeless> jelmer: so patch it up :)
[14:11] <mtaylor> as long as you're embarrassed
[14:11] <lifeless> jelmer: add the rich root etc stuff to str()
[14:11] <mtaylor> also, let me verify...
[14:12] <mtaylor> rich-root-pack is required for former svn repos... but is not recommended at this point for normal use of large projects, say, like the mysql trees?
[14:12] <jelmer> lifeless: Maybe once I finish browsing through the bzr-svn bugs from the last 5 days...
[14:12] <lifeless> jelmer: :)
[14:12] <lifeless> mtaylor: its a one way trap door; shouldn't be performance implications
[14:26] <lifeless> holy cow
[14:27] <lifeless> this index is a 5-level B+Tree
[14:27] <lifeless> 2.9Million keys
[14:29] <awilkins> lifeless: Did you think about incredibly-scary-judy-arrays ?
[14:33] <lifeless> awilkins: yes
[14:34] <awilkins> I never tried them personally, but the papers read really impressively :-)
[14:34] <lifeless> 5 IO's per key -> not ideal. But hey, its all of ubuntu.
[15:05] <lifeless> jelmer: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr-svn/+bug/248406
[15:32] <gabe> ok my russian friend closed his editor
[15:32] <gabe> did bzr up
[15:32] <gabe> this is what he said:
[15:32] <gabe> i've closed editor and run bzr up and it completely removed all my changes
[15:32] <gabe> all 26 local commits are disappeared
[15:32] <gabe> why did it do that!?
[15:35] <lifeless> gabe: bzr st will show you a pending merge
[15:35] <lifeless> gabe: and he should now 'bzr commit' to record it and put it in the repository
[15:35] <gabe> oh
[15:36] <gabe> lifeless: thanks for your continued assistance
[15:36] <gabe> i'll check on the bzr st
[15:36] <lifeless> gabe: if he reverted or something then it will have become a dead head and he can do 'bzr heads --dead' or whatever to find the id etc.
[15:36] <gabe> er
[15:36] <gabe> this is what his bzr st shows
[15:36] <lifeless> gabe: check on bzr st :)
[15:36] <gabe> D:\xampp\htdocs\eastwestfilms\hungerseason>bzr st
[15:36] <gabe> unknown:
[15:36] <gabe>   .project
[15:37] <gabe> no merges :(
[15:37] <lifeless> gabe: bzr heads --dead-only
[15:37] <lifeless> gabe: he will need bzrtools installed
[15:37] <gabe> he had a whole bunch of about 25 --local commits
[15:37] <gabe> lifeless: he has been using bzr for a while without problem? Is he really missing bzr tools?
[15:37] <lifeless> gabe: the heads command is in bzrtools
[15:38] <lifeless> gabe: I don't know if he is missing it or not, but to find the id of the commits that he reverted we need bzrtools
[15:38] <Splodge> can anyone tell me how to revert a 'branch'ed that has had some commits made back to the trunk version? a 'revert' only reverts the working tree to the branched copy. do I need to do something with 'pull' or provide some optional parameter. googling has turned up unless i'm just looking in the wrong places... (apologies if it is a stupid question)
[15:38] <gabe> right, i'll make sure he has it installed.
[15:38] <lifeless> gabe: its there in his repository, we just need to pull it back into his tree
[15:38] <lifeless> gabe: try the command, if it's unknown command install bzrtools/upgrade bzrtools
[15:39] <lifeless> Splodge: pull --overwrite
[15:39] <gabe> try this command? zr heads --dead-only?
[15:39] <lifeless> gabe: yes
[15:39] <gabe> bzr heads --dead-only
[15:40] <gabe> what will it do?
[15:40] <Splodge> lifeless: Thanks! You guys are good ;)
[15:40] <lifeless> gabe: report on the name of the stuff he reverted
[15:40] <gabe> ok i asked him to try
[15:40] <gabe> lifeless: you are right, unknown command
[15:40] <gabe> so install bzr tools
[15:41] <lifeless> gabe: yes
[15:41] <lifeless> abentley: ping
[15:41] <abentley> lifeless: pong
[15:42] <lifeless> abentley: nevermind, something stranger than I considered
[15:42] <lifeless> abentley: I have an epic fail on my mega repo; with bzrlib.errors.RevisionNotPresent: Revision {('zopezver.init.in-20080520144343-w8u8nix52axlkvgg-19', 'liw@gytha-20080520144343-7pdk3g344utm17vz')} not present in "<bzrlib.knit.KnitVersionedFiles object at 0x2ac7674f8810>".
[15:42] <lifeless> abentley: but the repo has single commits everywhere so it should be impossible
[15:43] <abentley> lifeless: This is with B+ trees?
[15:43] <lifeless> abentley: yes, though I think that that is orthogonal
[15:45] <lifeless> I know what is happening
[15:45] <lifeless> bug in my bug fix
[15:50] <lifeless> abentley: so yes, it was B+trees
[15:50] <abentley> lifeless: Glad you found it.
[15:52] <gabe> how to install bzrtools
[15:55] <lifeless> abentley: I was handling far right hand end nodes wrong if the node had only one child
[15:56] <Odd_Bloke> abentley: BB doesn't seem to be picking up on when patches have been merged into PQM's trunk (http://bundlebuggy.aaronbentley.com/project/pqm/request/%3C20080710071152.05c913e0@lapbert%3E is the only example ATM).
[15:57] <abentley> Odd_Bloke: Okay, I'll look into it.
[15:58] <Odd_Bloke> abentley: Thanks. :)
[15:58] <abentley> Odd_Bloke: Could you file a bug report, please?
[16:01] <Odd_Bloke> abentley: Sure.
[16:01] <gabe> ok my friend has bzr tools installed
[16:01] <gabe> this is the result of bzr heads --dead-only
[16:01] <gabe> HEAD: revision-id<EMAIL_ADDRESS>(dead)
[16:01] <gabe>   committer: Kos
[16:01] <gabe>   branch nick: hungerseason
[16:01] <gabe>   timestamp: Mon 2008-07-14 14:01:19 +0600
[16:01] <gabe>   message:
[16:01] <gabe>     Added sIFR for images caption
[16:01] <lifeless> gabe: ok, you can now do 'bzr merge -r revid<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:02] <gabe> oooh ok
[16:02] <lifeless> gabe: and then 'bzr commit'
[16:02] <gabe> that's very precise :)
[16:02] <lifeless> erm, thats revid:kos...
[16:02] <lifeless> I added a space by mistake
[16:02] <lifeless> like so:
[16:02] <lifeless> 'bzr merge -r<EMAIL_ADDRESS>.'
[16:02] <gabe> ok cheers
[16:02] <lifeless> that will resurrect his patches
[16:03] <gabe> D:\xampp\htdocs\eastwestfilms\hungerseason>bzr merge -r<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:03] <gabe> 57h4zma4
[16:03] <gabe> bzr: ERROR: No location specified or remembered
[16:04] <gabe> is that bad news?
[16:04] <lifeless> gabe: add the '.' :)
[16:04] <jam> gabe: there is a hard to see '.' after the revid
[16:04] <jam> you could alternatively change the order
[16:04] <jam> bzr merge . -r revid:.....
[16:05] <jam> lifeless: are you still in Europe?
[16:05] <gabe> lifeless: yep, quite right!
[16:05] <lifeless> jam: London indeed
[16:05] <lifeless> gabe: happy to help, sorry it took up your friends time
[16:05] <Odd_Bloke> abentley: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bundlebuggy/+bug/248422
[16:05] <jam> lifeless: how long before you head back to AU? (Just curious how much time you'll be awake when I am :)
[16:06] <abentley> Odd_Bloke: Was the patch merged after BB started tracking PQM?
[16:08] <lifeless> jam: 1 week
[16:09] <gabe> lifeless: we're still working on that last command
[16:10] <gabe> seems he gets
[16:10] <gabe> "'bzr" is not recognized as an internal or external command,
[16:10] <gabe> operable program or batch file.
[16:10] <lifeless> gabe: well, how does he run bzr normally ? :)
[16:10] <gabe> is that because windows doesn't recognise the quotes around the command?
[16:10] <lifeless> gabe: you shouldn't copy the quotes, they were to show you what to copy :)
[16:10] <gabe> he uses the bzr command but not with quotes around it I guess
[16:10] <gabe> oh woops
[16:12] <gabe> that worked
[16:13] <gabe> lifeless: when I work on a checkout make local commits, when I want to commit to repo sometime I need to bzr up, but then it wipes all my changes too - why does this happen?
[16:13] <lifeless> gabe: it does not wipe them away; you have to run 'bzr revert' to wipe them away
[16:13] <gabe> so what does it do with my local commits then?
[16:13] <gabe> and why are they 'taken away'?
[16:14] <lifeless> it puts them into a pending merge
[16:14] <lifeless> so that after the update, when yo commit they go into the master
[16:15] <lifeless> and they are taken away when you run 'bzr revert' because bzr revert removes pending merges
[16:15] <Odd_Bloke> abentley: I _think_ so, but I'll go and check timestamps.
[16:15] <gabe> but bzr st doesn't show them?
[16:16] <lifeless> gabe: bzr st will show them
[16:16] <gabe> i mean i thought merges didn't really happen with checkouts
[16:16] <lifeless> gabe: I assure you, he ran - 'bzr up' and then 'bzr revert'
[16:16] <lifeless> gabe: checkouts can totally do merges
[16:16] <gabe> ok, so in the future, when my local revisions appear to have been nuked what should be be looking at doing?
[16:16] <lifeless> gabe: dont run bzr revert after an update and they will never appear to have been nuked
[16:17] <gabe> mmm ok
[16:17] <Odd_Bloke> abentley: You sent the message to the ML about PQM now being managed by BB on the 9th, the merge happened on the 10th.
[16:17] <lifeless> 'bzr update && bzr revert' is guaranteed to give you a tree the same as the thing you have a checkout of.
[16:17] <lifeless> gabe: (&& means followed by)
[16:17] <gabe> ah ok
[16:18] <gabe> and then what did you do to fix that? merge the current tree with a previous version that included local commits?
[16:18] <lifeless> bzr update && bzr commit is guaranteed to commit your local edits to the thing you have a checkout of.
[16:18] <lifeless> yes, the use of heads --dead-only, and merge, is how we reinstated the local commits.
[16:19] <abentley> Odd_Bloke: I'm not sure when the last tweak of the merge-detection code happened.  It may have been afterward.
[16:22] <lifeless> jam: I am going to make the last node in a row be variable-sized
[16:22] <lifeless> jam: using b+tree indices in bzr search.. hurt
[16:23] <jam> lifeless: I understand your desire, but isn't that the last node in the *last* row only?
[16:23] <lifeless> jam: yes
[16:23] <gabe> i need to find out about bzr heads
[16:24] <gabe> bzr heads
[16:24] <gabe> bzr: ERROR: unknown command "heads"
[16:24] <gabe> even after doing:  sudo ./setup.py install
[16:24] <lifeless> jam: its actually really the use of many tiny indices *I think*
[16:24] <gabe> in the bzrtools extraction dir
[16:24] <lifeless> gabe: what path did it install into
[16:25] <jam> lifeless: you realize, that is probably sub-optimal from an FS perspective anyway
[16:25] <gabe> Writing /Library/Python/2.5/site-packages/BzrTools-1.5.0-py2.5.egg-info
[16:25] <jam> considering most FS have a minimum 4k page
[16:25] <lifeless> jam: they are in a pack
[16:25] <jam> lifeless: you are putting the indexes into a pack file... ok, I guess
[16:26] <lifeless> jam: better than 100000 files on disk :)
[16:26] <lifeless> jam: ask mtaylor how long the earlier editions took to delete an index :)
[16:26] <mtaylor> jam: oit was not pretty :)
[16:27] <jam> lifeless: because deleting required re-packing everything?
[16:27] <jam> sounds like a flag "deleted" case :)
[16:27] <lifeless> jam: no, because ext3 doesn't handle hundred's of thousands of files in a single directory gracefully
[16:28] <lifeless> jam: bzr-search doesn't delete stuff anyway
[16:28] <jam> ah, before the packing
[16:28] <jam> yeah, I seem to remember running into that in the past
[16:28] <jam> when we were working on medical images and dumped 100k files in a directory
[16:28] <jam> I had to write a custom script that used the raw C files to move them out
[16:29] <jam> the raw C *functions*
[16:29] <jam> because 'ls *' or python listdir() would just take forever to finish
[16:30] <gabe> ls /Library/Python/2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/plugins/bzrtools/
[16:30] <gabe> __init__.py             dotgraph.pyc            rspush.py
[16:30] <gabe> etc
[16:30] <gabe> seems to be there
[16:30] <jam> gabe: I would double check that "bzr --version" lists /Library/Python/2.5/site-packages/bzrlib as its bzrlib location
[16:31] <gabe> ha no
[16:31] <gabe> it doesn't
[16:31] <gabe> best fix that
[16:34] <jam> Odd_Bloke: still getting your random commits on the commit list
[16:34] <jam> http://bzr.daniel-watkins.co.uk/pqm/work/foo "renamed 'foo' => 'bar'"
[16:35] <meteoroid> i initialized a repository from generated code, added everything, committed, then branched to a remote bzr+ssh url.  this location on the server only ended up with a .bzr subfolder, and is smaller, significantly, than a branch made from it locally, eg. 'bzr branch main dev'
[16:35] <meteoroid> clearly there is something basic i don't understand, anyone care to proffer a link or something?
[16:35] <Odd_Bloke> jam: Ah, thanks.
[16:36] <jam> meteoroid: I'm guessing on your server you don't have a working tree, which is standard for places that we can't access the wt directly
[16:36] <jam> you should still have all the revision data
[16:36] <jam> just no working files
[16:36] <Odd_Bloke> If I have a lightweight 'work' checkout which is bound to a branch, which location's settings will be used from locations.conf?
[16:36] <meteoroid> jam: ah ok, that's what i figured, is there some command i run to turn a branch into a wt?
[16:36] <jam> Odd_Bloke: are you saying light weight => branch => other_branch ?
[16:36] <jam> meteoroid: 'bzr co'
[16:37] <jam> but the WT won't be updated by default either
[16:37] <jam> (there are some workarounds for this)
[16:37] <meteoroid> hm
[16:37] <meteoroid> well i shouldn't use the 'master' i set up as a wt anyway
[16:37] <meteoroid> actually i was kinda curious why the other branches were bigger
[16:37] <meteoroid> i guess i want to branch remotely
[16:38] <meteoroid> still have yet to set up http :/
[16:38] <Odd_Bloke> I have 'pqm/work' bound to 'pqm/foo'.  When I commit in 'pqm/work' (and so in 'pqm/foo') which config in locations.conf will be used, 'pqm/work's or 'pqm/foo's?
[16:38] <Odd_Bloke> jam: ^
[16:39] <jam> Odd_Bloke: that isn't a lightweight checkout...
[16:39] <jam> but I would guess if you have a bound 'work' => 'foo' then 'work' still gets used for the bound branch
[16:39] <gabe> lifeless: thanks ever so much for your help
[16:39] <jam> I'm not sure that all functions agree on this, though
[16:39] <lifeless> dato: ping
[16:39] <gabe> my friend is so relieved to have all his work back and is very grateful to you :)
[16:39] <lifeless> gabe: no probs
[16:40] <gabe> what is a revision that doesn't have descendents and is dead?
[16:41] <lifeless> gabe: a dead revision is one that no branch refers to
[16:41] <lifeless> gabe: a revision with no commits that build upon it is a head
[16:41] <Odd_Bloke> jam: It _is_ a lightweight checkout, I presumably didn't mean 'bound to'. :)
[16:41] <jam> Odd_Bloke: lightweight will use the target
[16:41] <gabe> and that is what you get if you do bzr up &&  bzr revert ?
[16:41] <jam> that I'm sure of
[16:42] <jam> when we open a light checkout, it instantly redirects to open the target branch
[16:42] <jam> so we don't really ever *see* the lightweights fake branch
[16:42] <jam> and almost all config is done at the Branch level, not the WT level
[16:42] <lifeless> gabe: yes
[16:48] <jam> lifeless: for the 'failure during deep copy' do you have any hints as to what happened?
[16:48] <jam> Did it just fail *to* deepcopy?
[16:48] <jam> (I'm testing with python 2.4.5 and things seem to work)
[16:48] <lifeless> it just failed to copy
[16:48] <lifeless> it was 2.4.4
[16:48] <lifeless> (manganese)
[16:50] <jelmer> lifeless, Odd_Bloke: Are you going to be around for some sprinting before saturday?
[16:50] <lifeless> jelmer: I'm in London, get to wolverhampton 9pm friday
[16:50] <jelmer> I'm in Dublin atm and trying to decide whether to go home for a day or two or to go there directly
[16:50] <jelmer> lifeless, ah, ok
[16:51] <lifeless> jelmer: if you wanted to come to London for a bit I'm sure that would be ok
[16:53] <jam> lifeless: well, the trivial "a = array.array(...); b = copy.deepcopy(a)" works on manganese :(
[16:53] <lifeless> jam: I was running 'bzr upgrade --btree-plain' with blooms enabled
[16:54] <lifeless> jam: and this made it fall down go boom
[16:54] <jelmer> lifeless, That may be a nice idea
[16:54] <lifeless> jelmer: let me confirm then
[16:54] <jam> I wonder if it might have been an OOM error
[16:55] <Odd_Bloke> jelmer: I'm in Coventry (at home) ATM.
[16:58] <lifeless> jelmer: yes, wouldn't be a problem for you to drop into the office; ned to know the days in advance though :)
[16:58] <lifeless> jam: don't think so
[16:58] <lifeless> jam: it had _much_ more meory problemms earlier when it was digging GB's into swap
[17:00] <jelmer> lifeless: cool, thanks. I'll see if I can figure out the travel
[17:00] <Odd_Bloke> jelmer: I don't have any solid committments this week, though, so I'm available for sprinting.
[17:00] <jam> lifeless: that is where you are testing the 1M keys ?
[17:01] <lifeless> jam: yeah, I have it in btree-plain now
[17:01] <jam> and if there is memory fragmentation, it is *possible* for it still to die if array's require contiguous memory
[17:01] <lifeless> jam: it was something about number pof parameters to a method I think
[17:02] <lifeless> jam: its 2.9M keys btw
[17:02] <lifeless> jam: look in ~robertc/megarepo/.bzr/repository/indices :)
[17:04] <jam> lifeless: we seem to have a 16GB pack file in there. I'm kind of happy to see that we support >4GB files :)
[17:04] <jam> though I wonder if we *really* want to :)
[17:05] <lifeless> jam: yes, otherwise latency++++
[17:06] <jelmer> Odd_Bloke: Ah, cool - how far are you from Wolverhampton?
[17:06] <jam> lifeless: so that is just an aggregate repo of a bunch of different projects, right?
[17:06] <lifeless> jam: oh, it was 2.5 that blew up
[17:07] <lifeless>     selected = min(candidates, key=getter)
[17:07] <lifeless> TypeError: min() takes no keyword arguments
[17:07] <lifeless> thats on 2.4
[17:07] <Odd_Bloke> jelmer: About an hour by train.
[17:08] <lifeless> jam: getting content out:
[17:08] <lifeless> time python2.5 bzr/bzr branch megarepo/pool/main/libj/libjpeg6b/
[17:08] <lifeless> real    0m5.365s
[17:08] <lifeless> then
[17:08] <lifeless> real    0m1.380s
[17:08] <lifeless> real    0m2.433s
[17:08] <lifeless> (the machine is being hammered right now :))
[17:09] <jam> lifeless: well, the 1.8G resident is a bit of an issue
[17:09] <lifeless> jam: thats the bzr search task
[17:09] <lifeless> jam: which is using GraphIndex still (see the 4K page thing I mentioned :))
[17:13] <jam> james_w: by the way, thanks a *ton* for doing all the work you've been doing on managing the bug tracker, it is really nice to have someone on top of it
[17:14] <james_w> no problem, I think there's quite a bit more to do to get importance/status assigned.
[17:15] <lifeless> mtaylor: ping
[17:15] <mtaylor> lifeless: pong
[17:15] <lifeless> mtaylor: you were working on server-side email right?
[17:15] <mtaylor> lifeless: was looking at it
[17:15] <lifeless> mtaylor: the savannah folk are looking for that : if you could put your branch up that would rock :)
[17:15] <mtaylor> lifeless: I settled on a modification of bzr-email though
[17:16] <mtaylor> lifeless: so I have nothing for them :(
[17:16] <lifeless> oh
[17:16] <lifeless> nuts :)
[17:16] <mtaylor> yeah
[17:16] <mtaylor> sorry
[17:16] <lifeless> is your modifcation general purpose? you could put it up anyhow :)
[17:56] <Odd_Bloke> jelmer, lifeless: I'm going out for the evening, let me know if anything transpires sprint-wise and I'll respond when I get back. :)
[17:57] <lifeless> Odd_Bloke: its up to jelmer really :)
[18:42] <Odd_Bloke> jelmer: Let me know. :)
[19:32] <agoebel> is there a way to have the webdav plugin handle authentication?
[19:53] <abentley> lifeless: ping
[19:56] <vila> agoebel: the webdav plugin handles authentication by relying on bzr http client implementation handling authentication :)
[19:57]  * vila ducks
[19:57] <agoebel> in which case why am I getting a "can't handle 401 auth required" response?
[19:59] <vila> either because you didn't specify user in url (http://user@host) or your password is wrong
[20:00] <agoebel> ah, missed the user
[20:00] <agoebel> figured it would give my a prompt
[20:00] <agoebel> thanks
[20:00] <vila> alternatively you can also use authentication.conf to provide user and/or password
[20:00] <LarstiQ> having it prompt would be real nice
[20:01] <vila> bug already filed (can't remember it right now, and I'm gone anyway :)
[20:17] <jelmer> Odd_Bloke, will do
[20:22] <dato> lifeless: pong
[20:34] <jelmer> lifeless, ping
[20:43] <colbrac> jelmer: Currently from olive pressing the push button in the push dialog succesfully pushes, but also gives a bzr-gtk error 'int argument required'
[20:43] <colbrac> jelmer: Any clue?
[20:43] <jelmer> colbrac: bzr-gtk probably expects the push function to return an integer
[20:44] <jelmer> whereas it returns an object these days
[20:44] <jelmer> PushResult I think
[20:44] <jelmer> See bzrlib.branch.Branch.push
[20:45] <colbrac> I see a 'rev = 0' a few lines higher yes
[20:45] <colbrac> where later try: rev = dopush()
[20:45] <jelmer> right, rev would actually be a PushResult object rather than the number of revisions pushed
[20:48] <colbrac> so, in the final lines of that method an info dialog is made with revs as the number of revs pushed
[20:49] <colbrac> how can I get that number from PushResult?
[20:49] <colbrac> (if you happen to know by heart) :)
[20:50] <colbrac> jelmer: The push you are pointing at says 'raise NotImplementedError(self.push)'
[20:50] <colbrac> :P
[20:50] <jelmer> colbrac: Well, that should have the API description
[20:51] <jelmer> See bzrlib.branch.PushResult for the object that's returned by push()
[20:53] <colbrac> hmm.. has deprecated all over it.. but should return the revno on initiation.. :/ Maybe not initiated anymore in bzr trunk?
[20:56] <jelmer> I don't see any deprecated stuff there
[20:56] <jelmer> what in particular are you referring to?
[20:57] <colbrac> I'm looking in bzr/trunk/bzrlib/branch.py line 2230: class PushResult
[20:58] <colbrac> But on a closer look of bzr-gtk/trunk/push.py, I don't see any bzrlib.branch imports
[20:58] <colbrac> bzr trunk as of yesterday
[20:58] <colbrac> bzr-gtk rev 531
[20:59] <jelmer> colbrac: that's because it already has a branch instance
[20:59] <jelmer> that gets passed to it
[20:59] <jelmer> there's no need for imports
[21:03] <colbrac> so.. if I read that do_push function correctly, the count var that is returned is not set when a correct branch_to location is given from the start?
[21:04] <colbrac> which explains the lack of an int
[21:07] <colbrac> jelmer: The count var is not set in do_push when the first try is succesfull
[21:14] <colbrac> jelmer: push to '../folder-that-didnt-exist' doesn't give the error, and a PushResult is returned
[21:28] <jelmer> colbrac: it is, see the "else:" clause
[21:29] <jelmer> the problem is the fact that br_to.pull() no longer returns an integer
[21:29] <colbrac> but check.. it does br_to.pull
[21:29] <colbrac> I saw
[21:30] <jelmer> Odd_Bloke,lifeless: I'll arrive on wednesday in London
[21:31] <jelmer> colbrac: Yeah, that's correct
[23:29] <lifeless> dato: I wanted to chat with you about the use of the index in git and what we might do similarly
[23:30] <lifeless> dato: but its way late for me now; perhaps tmorrow?
[23:30] <lifeless> night all
[23:30] <beuno> g'night lifeless
[23:30] <dato> lifeless: it's late here too :)
[23:30] <dato> but I'm only available evening UTC
[23:32]  * ToyKeeper would love to hear about that too
[23:38] <agoebel> does anyone have the trunk of bzr-gedit working with gedit 2.22.3?


[06:13] <MooDoo> hello all
[12:11] <MooDoo> AlanBell: how's the discussions re irc moderators going? is this going to be discussed at the next meeting? </noseymodeoff> :D
[12:42] <IdleOne> MooDoo: in irc land a week is equal to ~90 days
[12:42] <IdleOne> :)
[12:43] <IdleOne> I think they are still waiting on Tm_T and AlanBell to do some email answering. Maybe this ping will make them do that
[12:43] <MooDoo> IdleOne: no rush, just thought a gentle poke might be in order :D
[12:43]  * IdleOne gently kicks something
[13:02] <Tm_T> sorry, but I've been very busy the last several days and might still be few days more
[13:31] <MooDoo> It's ok, I can wait.....do it now dammit ;)


[05:56] <Kilos> morning all
[06:58] <Kilos> winter sucks, where is global warming
[07:30] <Private_User> lol morning Kilos
[07:31] <Kilos> hi Private_User
[07:31] <Private_User> I also hate winter, love summer
[07:31] <Kilos> lo Golynx
[07:31] <Golynx> hi Kilos
[07:31] <Private_User> hi Golynx
[07:31] <Golynx> hi Private_User
[07:31] <Kilos> you got mail methinks
[07:32] <Golynx> ok will check
[08:51] <charl_> morning Kilos, Golynx, Private_User
[08:51] <charl_> new vlc is not so stable, had it crash twice on me on 14.04
[08:51] <charl_> Maaz: coffee on
[08:51]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[08:51] <Golynx> hi charl_
[08:51] <Kilos> hi charl_
[08:52] <Kilos> works fine by me
[08:52] <Private_User> morning charl_
[08:52] <Kilos> or did you get the ppa charl_
[08:53] <Kilos> i used whats in the repos
[08:54] <charl_> Kilos: no the standard
[08:54] <charl_> i don't do much with the ppas
[08:54] <Kilos> wow mine plays dvds fine
[08:54] <Kilos> reinstall
[08:55] <Kilos> you on kde?
[08:55] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for charl_!
[08:56] <Kilos> wbb
[09:00] <charl_> Maaz: thanks
[09:00] <Maaz> charl_: Okay :-)
[09:00] <charl_> wb Kilos
[09:00] <charl_> no i'm still using i3
[09:00] <Kilos> aptitude reinstall vlc
[09:01] <Kilos> it will tell you if there are probs
[09:02] <charl_> no the package installed fine, i think it has something to do with vlc itself
[09:02] <charl_> but nevermind, it doesn't happen that frequently
[11:27] <charl_> wb Kilos
[11:27] <charl_> nice ! my internet has been upgraded !
[11:27] <charl_> i now have 180mbps
[11:32] <Golynx> wb Kilos
[11:32] <Golynx> charl_ :O
[11:32] <Golynx> whis that even possible
[11:33] <Golynx> is that*
[11:33] <Kilos> wow
[11:35] <Golynx> if thats in bits then the data would be 180 / 8 = 22.5 MBytes per second
[11:35] <Golynx> still awesome speed
[11:35] <Kilos> very
[11:36] <Kilos> i smile when i hit 1 mB/s
[11:37] <Golynx> and i dream of someday reaching 1 mB/s :)
[11:37] <Kilos> haha
[11:41] <Kilos> hi Vince-0
[11:41] <Vince-0> G'day
[11:42] <charl_> Golynx: the technology is called EuroDOCSIS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS#Europe_.E2.80.93_EuroDOCSIS
[11:42] <charl_> it's old and slow
[11:42] <charl_> but fibre is not available in my area
[11:42] <charl_> realistically i will not need more than 180mbps in the years to come though
[11:42] <Vince-0> better agenda items for the meet!
[11:42] <charl_> hey Vince-0
[11:43] <Vince-0> haai
[11:43] <Vince-0> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-za/781/detail/
[11:44] <charl_> Vince-0: ubuntu related or tech-related in general ?
[11:46] <Vince-0> general,
[11:46] <Golynx> thats great charl_ , glad it works so well
[11:46] <Golynx> o/ Vince-0
[11:47] <Vince-0> 0/
[11:48] <charl_> Vince-0: dnssec? ipv6?
[11:48] <charl_> i'm really busy working on dnssec right now
[11:49] <charl_> really cool techmology
[11:49] <Vince-0> hmm im looking at the previous ones
[11:50] <Vince-0> how about dnssec on VoIP?
[11:50] <charl_> which type of voip? sip?
[11:50] <Vince-0> yar
[11:50] <Vince-0> trying to find usable webrtc software
[11:50] <charl_> if you connect to a host sip.example.com then i could be handy
[11:50] <charl_> *it
[11:52] <charl_> hahaha http://opensslrampage.org/
[11:52] <charl_> oh that's a good item for the agenda
[11:52] <charl_> libressl
[11:53] <charl_> http://www.libressl.org/
[12:07] <Vince-0> yar and availability
[12:08] <Vince-0> google and a bunch of corporates just funded one of them, probably openssl
[12:23] <inetpro> good afternoon
[12:24] <Vince-0> hi
[12:25]  * inetpro reported bug #1313079 -  LoCo Team Portal is extremely slow
[12:25] <inetpro> hi Vince-0
[12:26] <Golynx> hi inetpro
[12:26] <inetpro> hi Golynx
[12:39] <Kilos> hi inetpro
[12:39] <Kilos> you also fing bugs hehe
[12:44] <inetpro> eh
[12:45] <inetpro> guess it doesn't help to just complain amongst us all the time
[12:45] <Kilos> haha
[12:45] <Kilos> what is the bug in?
[12:45] <Kilos> what doesnt work
[12:45] <inetpro> it is just damn slow man
[12:46] <inetpro> performance issues
[12:46] <Kilos> oh what is slow
[12:46] <Kilos> everything or certain apps
[12:46] <inetpro> creating the aganda is a mission and a half
[12:46] <inetpro> agenda as well
[12:46] <Kilos> oh you mean up there
[12:46] <inetpro> yebo yes
[12:46] <Kilos> good man get it fixed
[12:46] <inetpro> haha
[12:48] <Kilos> it opens quite quick here is it when you try add sutffs
[12:48] <Kilos> stuffs
[12:49] <Kilos> only min mense said they attending on g+ hey
[12:50] <Kilos> you are quite clued up. only unity and servers come from canonical still hey?
[12:50] <inetpro> don't trust those numbers, just keep it rolling
[12:50] <Kilos> no more x k and lubuntu's
[12:50] <Kilos> what numbers
[12:50] <inetpro> g+ attendees
[12:51] <Kilos> oh
[12:51] <inetpro> x k an lubuntu's have always been community projects
[12:51] <Kilos> oh didnt they come from canonical before
[12:52] <Kilos> hmm...
[12:52] <inetpro> not directly no
[12:52] <inetpro> they just feed into the same repos
[12:52] <Kilos> i then have a kde in  official wrapper
[12:53] <Kilos> remember when i said i couldnt even get it to connect
[12:53] <Kilos> sjoe who is the old one here
[12:54] <Kilos> kubuntu 9.04 in blue envelope thing
[12:54] <inetpro> there used to be one or two canonical developers involved officially but they phased it out
[12:55] <Kilos> have you looked at the new kubuntu
[12:55] <inetpro> have it running in a vm just to test
[12:55] <Kilos> its good but some stuffs you gotta hunt for
[12:55] <inetpro> like?
[12:55] <Kilos> like the compose key function
[12:56] <Kilos> and how to make opera default browser
[12:56] <Kilos> and they hide the workspace switcher
[12:56] <Kilos> oh pager thing
[12:57] <inetpro> nonsense
[12:57] <inetpro> always been like that
[12:57] <Kilos> and muon isnt installed
[12:57] <inetpro> muon is there as well
[12:57] <Kilos> nee man it used to show 4 by default
[12:57] <Kilos> no
[12:57] <Kilos> muon package manager isnt there
[12:58] <Kilos> i tried with 2 installs
[12:58] <Kilos> the update manager is
[12:58] <Kilos> aptitude install muon and watch
[12:58] <inetpro> press alt+f2 and type muon
[12:58] <Kilos> i type muon in the launcher
[12:59] <Kilos> it used to show now i had to install
[12:59] <inetpro> I have a default install in front of me
[13:00] <Kilos> and it shows if you type muon in the launcher?
[13:00] <inetpro> yebo
[13:00] <Kilos> nee man why didnt mine
[13:01] <inetpro> it says:
[13:01] <inetpro> Muon Discover
[13:01] <inetpro> Software Centre
[13:01] <Kilos> when i tried aptitude reinstall muon it told me it isnt installed
[13:01] <inetpro> Software Center*
[13:01] <Kilos> i dont like software centre
[13:01] <Kilos> too slow
[13:02] <inetpro> because it is called  muon-discover
[13:02] <Kilos> ok
[13:03] <inetpro> and the updater is called muon-updater
[13:04] <Kilos> how do you change your default browser
[13:04] <Kilos> dont work here as it used to
[13:04] <Kilos> i only use ff if opera cant do something
[13:06] <Kilos> anyway nm that, im on unity atm so will forget before i get back to kde
[13:06] <Kilos> i go sleep a bit
[13:08] <Kilos> maybe watch star wars 4 first
[13:09] <Golynx> which one i that , The phantom menace
[13:09] <Golynx> is*
[13:09] <Kilos> lemme look
[13:10] <Kilos> a new hope
[13:10] <Golynx> nope thats episode one :D
[13:10] <Kilos> ai!
[13:10] <Golynx> didnt watch the others 2,3 and 4
[13:11] <Kilos> got the complete saga here but they named differently
[13:11] <Golynx> is there space left for that movie
[13:11] <Kilos> lol i told you once youve written to it you cant add
[13:11] <Golynx> wow cool, i like star wars
[13:12] <Kilos> lemme see size
[13:12] <Golynx> oh ok
[13:12] <Kilos> 1.1g
[13:12] <Kilos> thats 4
[13:13] <Kilos> they all 1.1g
[13:13] <Golynx> thats too big ya
[13:14] <Kilos> i got 300 movies and series here on ians external
[13:14] <Golynx> i got some full movies sizes are 200mb
[13:14] <Golynx> but its mobile 3gp
[13:15] <Kilos> mobile stuff is smaller
[13:15] <Golynx> for tiny screens lol
[13:15] <Kilos> even the audio
[13:15] <Kilos> forget its ext now
[13:15] <Kilos> .something
[13:15] <Kilos> .amr
[13:16] <Golynx> ya amr is the lowest quality audio , but the smallest in size
[13:17] <Golynx> its was used mostly for voice recordings on old java phones
[13:17] <Kilos> i used to convert stuff with mobile media converter but havent tried for a coupla releases
[13:19] <Golynx> i had a program on win that converted dvd movies to mobile movies, kept all the quality too, only 4 times less in size though
[13:25] <Kilos> ya mmc does that
[13:26] <Kilos> can convert to lots of different formats
[13:26] <inetpro> Kilos: you could always ask at #kubuntu
[13:27] <Kilos> i have kde experts here so why would i go there? i cant keep up there
[13:28] <inetpro> or at https://plus.google.com/communities/108139456908538054874
[13:28] <Kilos> ai!
[13:28]  * Kilos throws a brick at inetpro
[13:28] <inetpro> :-)
[13:30] <inetpro> Kilos: you could also join the mailing list at https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-users
[14:37] <inetpro> Kilos: ai!
[14:37] <inetpro> you make me look for something that was always there and I don't even see it
[14:39] <inetpro> Kilos: System Settings, Default Applications, Web Browser, then click on the little button on the far right side with the three dots and find and click on Opera, then click on the Apply button
[14:39] <inetpro> nothing changed
[14:42] <Kilos> hmm...
[14:42] <Kilos> what you mean nothing changed
[14:43] <inetpro> it was always there
[14:45] <inetpro> I just didn't see Default Applications earlier and was caught by surprise
[14:48] <Kilos> i hunted. lemme go to kde and see
[14:49] <Kilos> Maaz, default apps is <reply>  System Settings, Default Applications, Web Browser, then click on the little button on the far right side with the three dots and find and click on Opera, then click on the Apply button
[14:49] <Maaz> Kilos: If you say so
[14:49] <Kilos> wbb
[14:53] <Kilos> Maaz  default apps
[14:53] <Maaz> System Settings, Default Applications, Web Browser, then click on the little button on the far right side with the three dots and find and click on Opera, then click on the Apply button
[14:54] <inetpro> Kilos: opera is not in the default repositories, how do you even install it?
[14:54] <Kilos> i added the ppa
[14:55] <inetpro> ai!
[14:55] <inetpro> is it really worth it?
[14:55] <Kilos> maybe
[14:55] <Kilos> its faster
[14:55] <Kilos> maybe i didnt
[14:55] <Kilos> Maaz  google opera browser for 14.04
[14:55] <Maaz> Kilos: "How-to Install Opera Mobile Browser Emulator for Ubuntu 14.04 ..." http://tutorialforlinux.com/2014/04/19/how-to-install-opera-mobile-browser-emulator-for-ubuntu-14-04-trusty-lts-64bit-linux-easy-guide/ :: "Tutorial for Linux | How-to Install Opera Browser 32/64bit for Linux ..." http://tutorialforlinux.com/how-to-install-opera-browser-3264bit-for-linux-
[14:55] <Maaz> distro-guides-list/ :: "How to Install diodon clipboard manager on Ubuntu 14.04 LTS or ..." http:/…
[14:55] <Golynx> opera's new webkit series is not yet available for linux. We gotta use the old 12.xx versions and below
[14:56] <Kilos> ah ya it was different so i did the ppa
[14:56] <Kilos> didnt understand the emulator thing
[14:57] <Golynx> haha the emulator is for opera mini for phones
[14:57] <Kilos> in 12.04 it was easy
[14:57] <Kilos> Maaz  google how to install opera browser on 12.04
[14:57] <Maaz> Kilos: "How do I download and install Opera in 12.04? - Ask Ubuntu" http://askubuntu.com/questions/169020/how-do-i-download-and-install-opera-in-12-04 :: "Opera 12 Released: How to Install it in Ubuntu 12.04 (Precise ..." http://www.liberiangeek.net/2012/06/opera-12-released-how-to-install-it-in-ubuntu-12-04-precise-pangolin/ :: "Install Opera in Ubuntu 12.04 |
[14:57] <Maaz> Unixmen" http://www.unixmen.com/install-opera-ubuntu-12-04/ :: "Install Opera Web browser in Ubunt…
[14:59] <Golynx> 12.04 uses the old opera versions before they changed to the webkit rendering engine. Opera has not yet made a version of the new webkit series for linux, so it wont be in the default 14.04 repositories
[15:00]  * inetpro fails to see why one would choose opera over a default firefox
[15:00] <Golynx> i use Opera 12.16
[15:01] <inetpro> If I had to choose I would much rather use Chromium than Opera
[15:01] <inetpro> but that is just me
[15:01] <Golynx> Opera is great for speed and dont waste data that other browsers do, plus a few more tricks
[15:01] <Kilos> ff has large upgrades often
[15:02] <Kilos> opera hardly ever
[15:02] <inetpro> hmm... large?
[15:02] <inetpro> those upgrades happen for a reason
[15:02] <Kilos> 40m or so
[15:02] <Kilos> we done this before
[15:03] <Kilos> dejavous
[15:03] <Kilos> daai ding
[15:04] <inetpro> aptitude -vv show firefox
[15:04] <inetpro> Compressed Size: 17,9 M
[15:04] <Golynx> since opera changed to webkit it lost alot of what made it unique. Since its the same rendering engine chrome uses. Most Windows users who loved opera before hate it now
[15:04] <Kilos> ya and all the extra stuff it does
[15:05] <Kilos> i used ff on windows but never updated anything
[15:05] <Kilos> every update had some or other prob
[15:06] <Kilos> ie super sucks
[15:06] <Golynx> ff is better now though and much lighter
[15:07] <Golynx> still downloads  stuff in the background i dont want
[15:07] <Kilos> anyway inetpro  i installed opera and when i go the settings route it doesnt show as another browser
[15:08] <inetpro> cli is your friend
[15:08] <Kilos> because i cant find where it is in the little window that opens up
[15:08] <inetpro> which opera
[15:09] <Kilos> tell me the command then please
[15:09] <inetpro> which opera
[15:09] <Kilos> sjoe i dunno
[15:09] <inetpro> which opera
[15:09] <Kilos> where do i find that info
[15:09] <inetpro> ai!
[15:09] <inetpro> Kilos: that is the command
[15:09] <Kilos> lol
[15:10] <Kilos> huh
[15:10] <inetpro> type it and press enter
[15:11] <Kilos> if i type in opera it opens opera , dont give me the version
[15:11] <inetpro> go to the cli and type "which opera" and press enter
[15:12] <inetpro> without them ""
[15:12] <Kilos> miles@P64:~$ which opera
[15:12] <Kilos> /usr/bin/opera
[15:12] <inetpro> \o/
[15:12] <Kilos> oh thats where to find it
[15:12] <inetpro> now put that in the default setting for your browser
[15:12] <Kilos> hmm...
[15:14] <inetpro> you done it yet?
[15:14] <Kilos> ty i done that. it used to give the choise when i opened the browsers
[15:14] <Kilos> ya
[15:15] <inetpro> now after you saved that click on a link like http://www.google.com/
[15:15] <inetpro> does it open with opera?
[15:17] <Kilos> no
[15:17] <inetpro> ai!
[15:17] <inetpro> what irc client?
[15:18] <Kilos> konversation
[15:18] <Kilos> it opens in konqueror
[15:18] <Kilos> and from evo links it opens with ff
[15:19] <inetpro> hmm...
[15:19] <Kilos> oi
[15:19] <inetpro> When you click on a highlighted URL anywhere in Konversation, it will launch the default KDE application associated with the MIME type of the URL
[15:19] <Kilos> so i get to remove konqueror
[15:19] <inetpro> so you will have to change the file type thingy as well
[15:19] <inetpro> no
[15:19] <Kilos> ai!
[15:21] <inetpro> go to System Settings, File Associations
[15:21] <inetpro> expand text and find html
[15:21] <inetpro> then change the Application Preference Order
[15:22] <inetpro> add Opera if it's not there
[15:22] <inetpro> and move it up to the top
[15:22] <inetpro> then press Apply
[15:24] <Kilos> sjoe
[15:24] <inetpro> easy stuff
[15:24] <Kilos> i dont see expand text option
[15:25] <inetpro> ai
[15:25] <inetpro> you see "text"?
[15:25] <Kilos> lemme see
[15:25] <inetpro> under multipart
[15:25] <Kilos> oh ya
[15:25] <inetpro> click on ">"
[15:26] <Kilos> ya see that now ty but so tiny
[15:27] <inetpro> so now it has expanded and you find many more files types
[15:27] <inetpro> now find and click on html
[15:27] <Kilos> found html
[15:27] <Kilos> and moved opera to the top
[15:27] <inetpro> mooi
[15:28] <Kilos> sjoe major job that
[15:28] <inetpro> now click on the link at the top again
[15:29] <inetpro> does it work?
[15:29] <Kilos> yip that worked. ty very much sir
[15:29] <inetpro> cool
[15:30] <Kilos> hey you can look at getting some livestock
[15:30] <Kilos> lemme find out the savings
[15:30] <inetpro> this is what you get when you do things outside of the ordinary
[15:30] <inetpro> you're on your own if you use non-default repositories
[15:31] <Kilos> listen man
[15:31]  * inetpro is ene ore
[15:31] <Kilos> you save over R400 a month on rates if you got sheep goats or cattle
[15:31] <inetpro> huh?
[15:32] <Kilos> dont you pay rates with your lights account
[15:32] <inetpro> ya and?
[15:33] <Kilos> if you got sheep you tell them you a farmer and you get R400 per month off
[15:34] <inetpro> hmm...
[15:34]  * inetpro wonders
[15:34] <inetpro> where do you see that?
[15:35] <inetpro> Kilos: now tell me, if you have not yet removed firefox what is the point of you using opera?
[15:36] <inetpro> it will still download the updates
[15:36] <Kilos> i have locked the version on unity in synaptic
[15:37] <Kilos> gotta work out how to lock versions here
[15:37] <Kilos> the rates thing you can enquire. but i know it here
[15:38]  * inetpro will try to find out about those rates
[15:38] <Kilos> its fact, believe me
[15:38] <Kilos> have i ever led you astray
[15:39] <Kilos> hehe
[15:39] <Kilos> its the only perk farmers get
[15:40] <inetpro> ai!
[15:40] <inetpro> well you have to be in a farming area, I think
[15:41] <Kilos> all plots were farms
[15:41] <inetpro> IIRC my area is zoned a residential these days
[15:41] <inetpro> sad reality
[15:42] <Kilos> no man cant be it they large plots
[15:42] <inetpro> what is large?
[15:42] <Kilos> 2 or 3 hectares
[15:44] <Kilos> if you are allowed to keep livestock its a plot
[15:46]  * inetpro has less than that unfortunately
[15:47] <inetpro> and all around us has been cut up into smaller plots
[15:48] <Kilos> anyway just ask. if you can keep sheep you can get a rates discount
[15:48] <Kilos> will only cost you a fone call
[15:49] <inetpro> how much land do you need per sheep?
[15:49] <Kilos> i see in muon package manager if you right click on a package you can lockk the version
[15:49] <Kilos> depends on the grass you have i think
[15:50] <inetpro> some other site says: "upto 5 ewes with lambs per acre if reasonable quality and fertiliser use, maybe more if push it"
[15:52] <Kilos> kikuyu can feed lots of sheep
[15:52] <inetpro> so I guess I could push it to about 10
[15:52] <inetpro> if I destroy my garden
[15:53] <inetpro> and if I let them run around the house :-)
[15:53] <Kilos> waching these they eat mixed 1/2 hour on the kikuyu then go to felt grass then eat some weeds then back and so it goes on
[15:53] <Kilos> we lets these here eat around the house as well
[15:53] <inetpro> could save on lawnmower costs
[15:54] <inetpro> but first I would have to find the money for fencing
[15:54] <Kilos> ai! your plot not fenced?
[15:55] <Kilos> what about your dogs
[15:55] <inetpro> anyway, talking nonsense now... will think about it
[15:59] <Kilos> hehe this bug still going, maybe they gonna fix it now
[15:59] <Kilos> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/848164
[16:24] <Private_User> evening all
[16:25] <Kilos> hi Private_User
[16:25] <Private_User> hi Kilos
[16:39] <Private_User> so whats good people?
[16:47] <Kilos> ubuntu is good in all flavours
[16:48] <Private_User> lol
[16:49] <Private_User> true that
[17:20] <Kilos> yum lekker warm sop
[17:28] <Kilos> hi smile
[17:29] <smile> hi :)
[17:47] <inetpro> Kilos: the numbers are up to 11 now
[17:56] <Kilos> lol yay
[18:05] <Kilos> is nuvolari  in the circle inetpro
[18:05] <Kilos> ping him
[18:05] <Kilos> he is getting very slack
[18:06] <Kilos> hi not_found
[18:06] <not_found> o/
[18:06] <Kilos> bad day for za rugger again
[18:06] <Kilos> sigh
[18:06] <inetpro> Kilos: yes but has not responded
[18:07] <Kilos> ok ill mail him inetpro
[18:07] <Kilos> haha rev him via email
[18:07] <inetpro> he'll get another reminder with g+
[18:08] <not_found> at least the cheetah's one
[18:09] <Kilos> that was a great game hey not_found
[18:09] <Kilos> poor stormers, bad year for them
[18:10] <Kilos> inetpro  told him be here or else
[18:10] <Kilos> hehe
[18:10] <not_found> dunno , I was sleeping
[18:11] <Kilos> is drubin  still alive. or also gone the apartheid route
[18:11] <Kilos> ohi superfly  didnt see you there for a while
[18:12] <Kilos> things getting bad here. spending more and more time on kde
[18:12] <Kilos> poor unity
[18:18] <Kilos> charl_  have you fixed your vlc
[18:22] <Kilos> inetpro  check this out
[18:22] <Kilos> http://www.webupd8.org/2010/03/2-ways-of-reinstalling-all-of-your.html
[18:22] <Kilos> see i do google
[18:24] <Kilos> pity its not all in 2 commands
[18:31] <not_found> bbl
[18:34] <Kilos> sjoe 2146 installed apps
[18:34] <Kilos> no wonder pc sweating
[18:41] <Kilos> inetpro  ping
[18:42] <Kilos> is your system upgraded completely?
[19:06] <smile> cu :p
[19:06] <smile> :D
[19:07] <smile> Kilos: if you don't know what to do, read https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Speciaal:Bijdragen/SmileBot&offset=&limit=500&target=SmileBot
[19:07] <smile> :p
[19:07] <smile> good night! :)
[19:07] <Kilos> night smile
[19:29] <Kilos> night all .sleep tight


[09:57] <alessandra> hello folks!
[09:58] <alessandra> 24h i go around to find solution at problem whit wifi card atheros 242x on my laptop
[09:59] <alessandra> yesterday someone try help me, but any try is failed
[10:03] <alessandra> http://pastebin.com/bPTWN99y
[10:08] <alessandra> http://pastebin.com/6VvBgavH
[10:10] <alessandra> this is the situation in my laptop, great tanks to any can help my
[10:10] <alessandra> me
[10:58] <studio-user911> sorry for my english - 1st i try to install ubuntu it detects my windows, but only my external hdd device for installation. then i make partitions on my internal hdd for ubuntu and so on, but now ubuntu dont detect my windows... what's wrong?
[11:00] <studio-user911> sorry.... hello my name is heinrich from germany
[11:02] <cfhowlett> !de
[11:02] <cfhowlett> !german
[11:02] <studio-user911> ja
[11:02] <cfhowlett> studio-user911 come ask in #ubuntu
[11:02] <cfhowlett> studio-user911 or in the german channel ^^^
[14:49] <dan-roger> Hey
[17:04] <scott> Hi!
[17:04] <Guest80187> hi
[17:04] <Guest80187> --help
[17:48] <shutyaev> hi guys. how can i add a keyboard layout indicator to the top panel in ubuntustudio 14.04 ?
[18:34] <studio-user117> i who are you?
[23:51] <Den_> Hello. Can any of you guys help me with something?