[05:56]  * Kilos greets ubuntu-za's peeps
[06:05] <Kilos> hi not_found-droid
[06:05] <Kilos> greetings all
[06:05] <Kilos> funny funny fly
[06:06] <not_found-droid> Alo
[06:40] <inetpro> good morning
[06:40] <not_found-droid> O/
[06:52] <Kilos> hiya inetpro
[06:52] <Kilos> hiya maiatoday
[06:57] <maiatoday> hi Kilos
[07:00] <charlvn> good morning
[07:00] <charlvn> Maaz: coffee on
[07:00]  * Maaz starts grinding coffee
[07:00] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee please
[07:00] <Maaz> Kilos: Righto
[07:01] <Kilos> hi charlvn
[07:04] <Kilos_> grr power cut for 30 secs
[07:04] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for charlvn and Kilos!
[07:04] <Kilos_> wind musta blown a branch against lines
[07:04] <Kilos_> Maaz, ty
[07:04] <Maaz> You are welcome Kilos_
[07:34] <charlvn> hi Kilos
[07:34] <charlvn> Maaz: thanks
[07:34] <Maaz> charlvn: Sure
[08:11] <magespawn> good morning
[08:11] <Kilos> hi magespawn
[08:12] <magespawn> how things Kilos?
[08:15] <Kilos> ok ty magespawn  and you?
[08:15] <Kilos> bit of a thumper today but still maintaining
[08:21] <magespawn> yup cool and overcast
[08:33] <Kilos> lekker warm here but strong wind
[08:34] <Kilos> natal getting all the clouds methinks
[08:35] <Kilos> and we need rain bad
[08:37] <superfly> Kilos: what's funny?
[08:42] <inetpro> hi superfly, I think he may be referring to your message re: a real programming language...
[08:55] <Kilos> lol you superfly
[08:55] <Kilos> truth but so direct
[08:55] <Kilos> hehe
[08:55] <Kilos> like i dont have those problems i use kubuntu
[08:56] <Kilos> inetpro, where is the rain?
[08:57] <inetpro> Kilos: tomorrow
[08:58] <Kilos> wow i really hope so
[08:58] <Kilos> sheep suffering
[08:58] <Kilos> just been cutting down creepers for them
[09:00] <inetpro> Kilos: if not tomorrow then Wednesday, but after this heat we really need the rain
[09:00] <inetpro> I think it will come
[09:00] <magespawn> Kilos can you not feed them lucern pellets?
[09:01] <inetpro> hi magespawn
[09:01] <Kilos> yes but they dont grow here
[09:01] <Kilos> hehe
[09:01] <magespawn> hah
[09:01] <magespawn> hey inetpro
[09:01] <Kilos> and electricity expensive to pump water all over
[09:01] <magespawn> how many sheep have you got?
[09:01] <Kilos> only 12 now
[09:02] <Kilos> oh and 2 lambs a few months old
[09:02] <Kilos> used to be 35 total
[09:03] <magespawn> one bage of lucern would keep the going for awhile
[09:04] <Kilos> not even a day
[09:04] <Kilos> i just cut about that much green creepers and its gone already
[09:06] <magespawn> lucern has higher food value so you need to mix it
[09:07] <Kilos> i used to grow lucern but it needs watering often
[09:07] <Kilos> loves water and lan
[09:07] <Kilos> limestone ammonium nitrate
[09:08] <Kilos> if it would rain then new grass all over is ideal magespawn
[09:09] <magespawn> we will hope for rain then
[09:10] <Kilos> dont hope. Pray
[09:10] <Kilos> ty anyway
[09:20] <magespawn> indeed
[09:20] <Kilos> eskom put lotsa brakes on
[09:21] <Kilos> water from 40-50 metres under the grown costs
[09:21] <Kilos> grownd
[09:26] <magespawn> do you collect rain water? jojo tanks?
[09:27] <superfly> Kilos: ground
[09:29] <Kilos> oh my ty superfly
[09:29] <Kilos> no gutters magespawn
[09:30] <Kilos> thats where northern natal is so lekker against the mountains. fountains every few 100 metres
[09:31] <Kilos> i piped 3 farms there to large tanks and overflows into dams
[09:32] <magespawn> here we have a strong borehole, but it contains calcium carbonate, so not too good to drink or for appliances
[09:33] <Kilos> eish
[09:34] <magespawn> okay for plants, but the ppl and pets etc drink rain water
[10:02] <Kilos> hey guys do you get ddr to ddr2 adapters
[10:11] <magespawn> Kilos not as far as i know
[10:16] <Kilos> aw it woulda been nice. got a 1g ddr2 ram card and no pc for it
[10:17] <Kilos> i thought seeing as they make ide to sata ada[ters they might do it for ram too
[10:20] <Kilos> was hoping actually. kde i think likes lotsa ram
[10:36] <Kilos> tumbleweed, can one use the ibid.db file from one bot to another?
[10:37] <Kilos> i would love maaz's for my bot, he is well educated
[10:37] <superfly> Kilos: no more than Unity or Gnome 3
[10:40] <tumbleweed> Kilos: I'm afraid not, although it's technically possible
[10:40] <Kilos> yeah superfly you right, but i keep using maverick and mate as well so see a huge diffs
[10:41] <superfly> Kilos: well, when you use half a desktop, compared to a comprehensive desktop you will see a difference
[10:41] <Kilos> ty tumbleweed
[10:42] <Kilos> lol superfly can you explain that to me?
[10:42] <Kilos> tumbleweed, are there links in the db to the individual nicks?
[10:42] <Kilos> is that the snag?
[10:43] <Kilos> are you in za or at a dev thingie again
[10:43] <superfly> Kilos: jokes aside, MATE uses much less memory because it doesn't do as much
[10:43] <superfly> Kilos: but I've found that KDE generally works well even on lower end machines
[10:44] <Kilos> yeah superfly it works ok here with 1g ram, just things open a bit slower
[10:45] <superfly> Kilos: remember that KDE uses the same set of libraries for almost all its programmes, so when you load KDE you get a whole bunch of libraries in memory too, but you don't have to load those libraries for every KDE app that launches. Your individual apps potentially use less memory in KDE than other desktop environments.
[10:45] <Kilos> ah
[10:46] <Kilos> another thing please. after installing nvidia-current do you have to configure it still?
[10:46] <Kilos> unity still says i using 2d mode
[10:46] <superfly> No, it should work fine
[10:47] <Kilos> kde doesnt say anything just goes
[10:47] <tumbleweed> Kilos: that is the snag, yes
[10:47] <superfly> Kilos: you can try to enable desktop effects by pressing Alt+Shift+F12, and it'll tell you if there are any problems
[10:48] <Kilos> ah ty tumbleweed superfly will try that
[10:48] <Kilos> i forgot about that f12 bit
[11:03] <Kilos> whew screen went black with flashing cursor
[11:05] <Kilos> lotsa stuff it says couldnt be activated
[11:05]  * Kilos will stay with them effects off
[11:05] <superfly> Kilos: then it doesn't seem like nvidia-current is playing nice
[11:05] <superfly> Kilos: is that 12.04?
[11:10] <Kilos> yip superfly
[11:10] <Kilos> the one i install from stick
[11:13] <superfly> ja, I had problems with the nVidia driver in 12.04. I had to go and download the beta driver from nVidia's site. The good news is that it is fixed in 12.10
[11:15] <Kilos> lol no man i wanted to stick with lts this time around
[11:15] <Kilos> data last longer if no upgrades all the time
[11:17] <Kilos> i have 12.04 at the stage i can do a clean install , rsync archives and update upgrade for 20m data
[11:33] <Kilos> hi DigiGram
[11:33] <Kilos> funny real name you got
[11:33] <DigiGram> hi Kilos
[11:34] <Kilos> realname
[11:34] <Kilos> hehe
[11:34] <DigiGram> lol
[16:33] <magespawn> evening all
[16:33] <Cantide> evening~
[16:34] <superfly> hi
[17:07] <nuvolari> o/ hello
[17:08] <Cantide> hey~
[17:08] <Cantide> it's quiet here tonight 'o'
[17:08] <Cantide> oh, Kilos is not here 'o'
[17:09] <nuvolari> he wooshed out of here now now
[17:09] <nuvolari> Kilos<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has quit (Quit: Woooosh)
[17:09] <Cantide> lol
[17:09] <Cantide> wooosh always reminds me of Chrono Trigger '-'
[17:12] <nuvolari> bwahaha! A guy got chased by a deer into a tree
[17:12] <nuvolari> (on tv just now :P)
[17:12] <Tonberry> what kind of deer?
[17:13] <nuvolari> 'n takbok
[17:13] <Cantide> hahahahaha
[17:13] <Tonberry> ah
[17:13] <Cantide> what's a takbok? 'o'
[17:13] <nuvolari> Maaz: translate takbok en
[17:13] <Maaz> nuvolari: I couldn't translate that: Please use Translate v2.  See http://code.google.com/apis/language/translate/overview.html.
[17:13] <nuvolari> Maaz: help translate
[17:13] <Maaz> nuvolari: Translates a phrase using Google Translate. You can use it like this:
[17:13] <Maaz>   translate (<phrase>|<url>) [from <language>] [to <language>]
[17:13] <Maaz>   translation chain <phrase> [from <language>] [to <language>]
[17:13] <Tonberry> reindeer?
[17:14] <nuvolari> Maaz: translate from en to af takbok
[17:14] <Maaz> nuvolari: I couldn't translate that: Please use Translate v2.  See http://code.google.com/apis/language/translate/overview.html.
[17:14] <nuvolari> pfft.
[17:14] <nuvolari> yeah, reindeer
[17:14] <nuvolari> Maaz: translate takbok from af to en
[17:14] <Maaz> nuvolari: I couldn't translate that: Please use Translate v2.   Are you doing well?
[17:20] <Kilos> hey magespawn
[17:21] <Kilos> magespawn, you must try join the durbs peeps for the release party
[17:21] <magespawn> i see there is a release party in the works for durban. well ty nuvolari hey Kilos
[17:21] <Kilos> hehe
[17:21] <Cantide> oh
[17:21] <Cantide> keep me updated, please :)
[17:22] <Kilos> Cantide, dont you get mails from our list
[17:23] <Cantide> i dont ._.
[17:23] <Kilos> why?
[17:23] <Kilos> nuvolari, give him the link please
[17:23] <magespawn> provisionally for the 20th or 27th
[17:24] <nuvolari> magespawn: I scanned my mail just now now
[17:24] <nuvolari> yea, what you said
[17:24] <nuvolari> :P
[17:24] <Kilos> unity hasnt got nuf workspaces to open mail too
[17:24] <nuvolari>  http://bit.ly/MCOujZ
[17:24] <nuvolari> that one?
[17:24]  * nuvolari checks whether it is the mailing list
[17:25] <Kilos> our mailing list
[17:25] <nuvolari> yeah
[17:25] <nuvolari> Cantide:  http://bit.ly/MCOujZ
[17:25] <Kilos> ubuntu-za
[17:27] <Cantide> subscribed! Thanks :)
[17:27] <Kilos> good lad
[17:29] <Cantide> ^-^v
[17:30] <Cantide> magespawn, afternoon or morning?
[17:30] <Cantide> 20th i'm working, but only 8 am to noon
[17:31] <magespawn> not sure do not recall a time in the mail
[17:31] <Cantide> okay
[17:31] <Cantide> i think the last one was in the afternoon
[17:32] <Kilos> lo ludo
[17:32] <magespawn> the time in the mail is 10:00 till 14:00
[17:33] <Cantide> hmm
[17:33] <Cantide> it's likely i'd miss that
[17:33] <Cantide> oh well :)
[17:33] <Kilos> ask for an hour off Cantide
[17:33] <Cantide> Kilos, not gonna happen :p
[17:33] <Cantide> bank is too strict
[17:33] <Kilos> tell them important meeting
[17:33] <Kilos> aw
[17:33] <Cantide> i could try to change my Saturdays around
[17:34] <Cantide> and swap with someone else
[17:34] <Cantide> but that's tricky
[17:34] <Cantide> or i could just catch the end of the meet :p
[17:34] <Kilos> good idea but wait till they have fixed the date first
[17:36] <Kilos> haha superfly its taken a while but ian seems hooked on python
[17:36] <Cantide> yeah
[17:36] <Cantide> that's what i'm thinking :o
[17:36] <Cantide> i should be off on the 27th :)
[17:37] <Kilos> even sends me little things to try
[17:37] <Kilos> the twit
[17:38] <Kilos> then mail the organiser and tell him you can make the 27th
[17:38] <Kilos> before someone else says the 20th is good
[17:40] <superfly> Kilos: I'm not surprised, it's a very awesome programming language
[17:41] <magespawn> bbl fish time.
[17:41] <Cantide> Kilos, i'd rather not steer it in that direction seeing as i'm not yet certain which dates i'll be working yet
[17:41] <Kilos> hehe he wrote some thing i gotta choose integer things numbers tween such and such and a little story when i get y age right
[17:42] <Cantide> sometimes they tell us at work a few days before we have to work the saturday -.-v
[17:42] <Kilos> ah
[17:42] <Cantide> so i'd rather it be convenient for others first than for myself
[17:42] <Kilos> well wait till its a bit closer then and try swop if you gotta work
[17:44] <Cantide> yep
[17:44] <Cantide> i'm keen to get my hands on a disk if i can
[17:44] <Cantide> to spare me the download
[17:45] <Kilos> yeah. dont you get chance to download at work
[17:53] <Kilos> i dont think the cds will be here on time, last time they were like a month after the release date
[17:53] <Kilos> or even more
[18:02] <magespawn> i wont't use it on my systems yet
[18:05] <Kilos> i meant download at work and take home
[18:05] <Kilos> onna dvd or stick
[18:06] <Kilos> 12.04 seems good though magespawn
[18:06] <Kilos> apart from nm
[18:06] <Kilos> and sound in quassel and xchat
[18:08] <Kilos> sound they say is fixed in next release, so you guys can figure how i can back something it to 12.04
[18:10] <magespawn> 12.04 is okay but again a bit too much for my old laptops without changing the desktop
[18:11] <Cantide> Kilos, i can't connect to the outside world at work - i am completely isolated :D
[18:14] <Kilos> aw that sucks
[18:14] <Cantide> yes and no
[18:14] <Cantide> sometimes it's nice to be there - i get away from everything else :D
[18:15] <Kilos> magespawn, when you got nothing to do and a cable connection just try out tinycorelinux
[18:15] <Kilos> it be very cute
[18:15] <Kilos> but you must have cable to start
[18:15] <magespawn> Cantide are you full time at the bank?
[18:15] <Cantide> magespawn, unfortunately so
[18:15] <Kilos> gotta download the mobile stuff
[18:15] <magespawn> will check it Kilos
[18:16] <Cantide> i was planning to quit this month
[18:16] <Cantide> but seeing as i'm spending 20 K on a trip, i have to work longer to save that up again
[18:16] <Kilos> get the coreplus to write to cd. 66m.  the tinycore is 12m but runs from cd
[18:17] <Kilos> coreplus you can install to hdd
[18:20] <magespawn> tried puppy linux
[18:20] <magespawn> that was pretty cool
[18:20] <magespawn> fast
[18:20] <Kilos> i will try that too sometime
[18:20] <Kilos> yeah tiny flies
[18:21] <Kilos> almost like things open before you stopped clicking mouse
[18:21] <Kilos> very lekker
[18:22] <charlvn> good evening
[18:22] <charlvn> Maaz: coffee please
[18:22] <Maaz> charlvn: There isn't a pot on
[18:22] <charlvn> Maaz: coffee on
[18:22]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[18:22] <Kilos> hi charlvn
[18:22] <charlvn> Maaz: coffee o kudasai
[18:22] <Maaz> charlvn: Huh?
[18:22] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee please
[18:22] <Maaz> Kilos: Righto
[18:22] <charlvn> ok still need to learn you some japanese Maaz :)
[18:22] <charlvn> hi Kilos
[18:22] <charlvn> how's it going
[18:23] <Kilos> ok and there
[18:24] <charlvn> not too bad
[18:24] <charlvn> Maaz: exchange 1 euro for zar
[18:24] <Maaz> charlvn: That didn't go down very well. Burp.
[18:24] <charlvn> hmm, currency feature a bit broken i see
[18:24] <Kilos> convert
[18:24] <charlvn> Maaz: convert 1 euro for zar
[18:24] <Maaz> charlvn: I'm not feeling too well
[18:24] <charlvn> bah
[18:24] <Kilos> oh my
[18:25] <charlvn> hi zeref
[18:25] <zeref> hi charlvn
[18:25] <Kilos> not eu$
[18:25] <Kilos> yo zeref
[18:26] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for charlvn and Kilos!
[18:26] <Kilos> Maaz, ty
[18:26] <Maaz> You are welcome Kilos
[18:26] <Kilos> whats the goodie for euros
[18:30] <magespawn> Maaz zar to euro
[18:30] <Maaz> magespawn: Sorry...
[18:30] <Kilos> charlvn, <QP> 1 EUR (Euro) = 11.51 ZAR (Rand) (Last trade rate: 11.5056, Bid: 11.4999, Ask: 11.5113)
[18:31] <magespawn> ty Kilos
[18:31] <magespawn> hah
[18:32] <Kilos> yw
[18:32] <Kilos> command is convert 1 eur to ZAR
[18:32] <Kilos> EUR
[18:33] <Kilos> Maaz, convert 1 EUR to ZAR
[18:33] <Maaz> Kilos: That didn't seem to agree with me
[18:33] <Kilos> Maaz, botsnack
[18:33] <Maaz> Yay, at last someone thinks about me as well
[18:33] <Kilos> the daily build works kiff
[18:34] <magespawn> shame poor Maaz does not like money/currencies 9r maybe it is just the exchange rate
[18:34] <Kilos> magespawn, you can always go use QP hey
[18:35] <magespawn> ty Kilos will keep that in mind
[18:35] <Kilos> lol if i havent forgotten to wake the cow
[18:40] <Cantide> Maaz zar to krw
[18:40] <Maaz> Cantide: What?
[18:40] <Cantide> >_<
[18:40] <Kilos> haha
[18:40] <Kilos> whats krw
[18:40] <Cantide> Korean Won
[18:40] <Cantide> but i may have it wrong
[18:41] <Cantide> last i checked it was 127 :'(
[18:41] <Kilos> 1 ZAR (Rand) = 125 KRW (Won) (Last trade rate: 125.3374, Bid: 125.2816, Ask: 125.3932)
[18:41] <Cantide> noooooo
[18:41] <Cantide> it was 138 a few weeks back
[18:41] <Cantide> stupid rand :(
[18:42] <Kilos> yeah it dipped lots
[18:42] <Kilos> all the strikes
[18:43] <Kilos> Cantide, join ##kilos and see if you get greeted
[18:43] <magespawn> lol
[18:43] <Kilos> i dunno if she works
[18:44] <Kilos> what magespawn
[18:44] <Kilos> does she greet?
[18:46] <Kilos> i dunno if im supposed to see the greeting
[18:46] <magespawn> Kilos if have not forgotten to make the cow
[18:46] <Kilos> lol
[18:46] <magespawn> looks like that did not load hey Kilos
[18:46] <Kilos> greeter dont work, i wonder why
[18:47] <Kilos> hmm
[18:47] <magespawn> any one here who has used a token ring network?
[18:47] <Kerbero> lol no
[18:47] <Kilos> aw i havent taught her on unity
[18:47] <Kerbero> those things are ancient :P
[18:47] <Kilos> sigh
[18:48] <magespawn> mm thats what i thought, but is still part of thenA+ exam
[18:50] <Kilos> Cantide, try now
[18:51] <Kilos> ive done so many installs i dunno whats where
[18:52] <Kilos> still nothing
[18:52] <Kilos> grrr
[18:54] <magespawn> Kerbero: thay are only talking about logical token ring not physical
[18:54] <Kilos> naand Kerbero
[18:54] <Kilos> sal nog eendag by netwerk uitkom weer
[18:55] <Kerbero> ok reg so
[18:55] <Kilos> dankie
[18:56] <magespawn> still not quite getting why it would work like that though
[18:59] <magespawn> ahh well hopefully understanding will come.
[19:01] <Kilos> night guys. sleep tight
[19:01] <Kilos> see ya morrow
[19:39] <magespawn> good night all
[19:39] <Cantide> night magespawn ^^


[08:03] <alkisg> Good morning
[13:05] <highvoltage> good morning alkisg
[19:48] <DanaG> Weird... I went to burn the edubuntu ISO, and it's 2.3GB, and my DVD burner is saying the disk is 2.3GB free -- but yet, it's a "blank" disk.
[19:51] <DanaG> Oh, I see... maybe it's amount free AFTER burning.
[19:51] <DanaG> That's non-obvious.
[20:15] <mhall119> a DVD is 4.6G, right?
[20:20] <highvoltage> mhall119: yep


[13:54] <ochosi> i'm currently reworking the xubuntu gtk-theme (aka bluebird), feel free to check it out @ http://shimmerproject.org/hg/bluebird-colors > greybird. in response to the reviews being somewhat divided regarding the blue i started by reducing it
[13:54] <ochosi> note: this is work in progress
[13:55] <ochosi> i also work on an xfce-complete version of faenza (based on 0.7) which you can check out here: http://shimmerproject.org/hg/faenza-xfce
[13:56] <ochosi> charlie-tca: i'm afraid i won't be able to make the meeting tonight
[13:56] <ochosi> charlie-tca: feel free to forward the two links i just posted to the community meeting (and please backward the feedback to me, in case there is any)
[13:57] <charlie-tca> ochosi, thanks for letting me know. I will post those in the meeting.
[14:01] <ochosi> and please don't forget the "work in progress" part ;)
[14:02] <ochosi> charlie-tca: and if you already bring up the topic of looks and feel you could set up a wiki page for natty where we could collect/discuss all that (if that doesn't exist yet)
[14:06] <charlie-tca> There is discussion about it happening on the community artwork wiki
[14:07] <charlie-tca> uh, mailing list, I mean
[14:07] <ochosi> a-ha
[14:07] <ochosi> maybe i should subscribe to that again
[14:07] <ochosi> why not on xubuntu-devel?
[14:07] <charlie-tca> Spec is on https://wiki.uibuntu.com/Artwork/specs/0007_Xubuntu_Natty_Wallpaper
[14:07] <charlie-tca> We don't have the artists ?
[14:08] <ochosi> hm, wiki seems to be down
[14:09] <ochosi> ah, error in the link
[14:09] <charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/0007_Xubuntu_Natty_Wallpaper
[14:10] <ochosi> yep, got it
[14:10] <charlie-tca> couple of errors in the link :-(
[14:10] <ochosi> :)
[14:11] <charlie-tca> I started this back in the beginning of Maverick, it has taken a while to find the right places and people to get it going.
[14:11] <ochosi> right, so who is in charge of artwork right now?
[14:13] <charlie-tca> me
[14:13] <ochosi> ah right
[14:13] <charlie-tca> thus the request each month for a artwork lead
[14:13] <ochosi> didn't see that
[14:15] <charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Leaders
[14:23] <mr_pouit> hi there
[14:24] <charlie-tca> Hello, mr_pouit
[14:24] <ochosi> hi mr_pouit
[14:25] <charlie-tca> Did we decide what to do about the alpha1? I got lost during the discussion here and on #ubuntu-release when I lost the internet for a day
[14:25] <mr_pouit> I think I will be home a bit too late this evening, I'm not sure I'll be on time for the meeting, so just in case, the only "news" since last week is the upload of exo 0.5.5 to natty ;)
[14:25] <charlie-tca> Thank you
[14:26] <charlie-tca> If we haven't decided anything, I think we push the alpha1 for i386 and amd64 only.
[14:26] <charlie-tca> The panel upload won't break the installed users, will it?
[14:28] <mr_pouit> yeah, I think it's better to release it
[14:29] <charlie-tca> I will contact persia and the release today, then.
[14:29] <charlie-tca> s/release/release team
[14:33] <mr_pouit> (and yeah, from what I can see daily in my mailbox, powerpc images are completely broken)
[14:35] <charlie-tca> agreed. I don't see them going out for alpha1, at least.
[17:47] <ochosi> charlie-tca: g2g now, if you could mention the following points of focus for feedback on the theme that would be nice:
[17:47] <ochosi>  * panel
[17:47] <ochosi>  * window-switcher (alt-tab)
[17:47] <ochosi>  * scrollbars
[17:48] <charlie-tca> ochosi, I would be happy to
[17:48] <ochosi> cool thanks
[17:49] <ochosi> btw, the current panel color focusses on accessibility and should work with both bright and dark monochrome icons
[17:51] <charlie-tca> The bluebird panel color?
[17:51] <charlie-tca> It is too dark to see the icons easily on my monitors
[17:51] <ochosi> no greybird
[17:51] <charlie-tca> Oh, okay. I will check it out then.
[17:52] <ochosi> good
[17:52] <charlie-tca> Are you or knome on the artwork mailing list?
[17:52] <ochosi> i'm not, not sure about knome
[17:52] <ochosi> is there a xubuntu-artwork ml?
[17:52] <ochosi> or just ubuntu-artwork?
[17:53] <charlie-tca> no, sorry. I meant the community artwork ml
[17:53] <ochosi> ah, k, no, not on that one
[17:53] <charlie-tca><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:54] <charlie-tca> I am struggling to work with thorwil and saleel on the artwork specs. I feel like I don't really know much there
[17:55] <ochosi> right, i'll read up on that thread as soon as i have time
[17:55] <ochosi> g2g now, see you
[17:55] <charlie-tca> Okay. Thanks
[17:55] <charlie-tca> Have a really good day!
[18:02] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu Community Meeting in 1 hour in #ubuntu-meeting
[18:19] <cody-somerville> woot
[18:19] <cody-somerville> I can attend this one,
[18:19] <charlie-tca> Oh, good! I will be there too.


[04:13] <wallyworld> hpidcock: this looks bigger than it is - small code changes but significant test boilerplate, deletion of unused code etc https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/10982
[04:14] <hpidcock> on it
[04:18] <wallyworld> ty, sorry in advance
[04:18] <wallyworld> it was a bitch to write
[05:37] <hpidcock> wallyworld: LGTM, tried it out on gce with no issues
[05:43] <wallyworld> hpidcock: awesome, ty
[05:43] <wallyworld> still go 3 pacgaes to go, won't be as hard
[05:44] <wallyworld> i tested with k8s as well
[05:44] <wallyworld> as they use resources etc
[09:04] <timClicks> could someone please take a look at a discourse answer I've just given and check that it makes sense? I should really log off https://discourse.jujucharms.com/t/how-to-deploy-charms-to-specific-clusters-on-vsphere-cloud/2396/8
[09:57] <manadart> stickupkid or nammn_de1: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/10983
[10:34] <stickupkid> love it when this happens https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/ccsyVWTC5r/
[10:38] <achilleasa> stickupkid: you can just claim that one of the two contains a zero-width unicode character :D
[12:09] <manadart> achilleasa: Did you have any success with that test in your patch?
[12:17] <achilleasa> manadart: still chasing it down :-(
[12:18] <achilleasa> I am down to sprinkling fmt.Printf statements everywhere...
[12:18]  * achilleasa needs stronger coffee...
[14:13] <gnuoy> kwmonroe, hi there, a work aroundthat was put into layer basic sometime ago (https://github.com/juju-solutions/layer-basic/pull/51/files) seems to be no longer valid (https://github.com/juju-solutions/layer-basic/issues/149). I'd like to put up a PR to remove the workaround but am concerned I might set the world on fire. Do you have any thoughts on the issue ?
[14:14] <gnuoy> fwiw just removing the allow_hosts line works for me but am I guessing that was needed in the original work around
[14:15] <gnuoy> s/but am I/but I'm/
[16:16] <achilleasa> manadart: hmmm... I still need to add a "NewScopedProviderAddressInSpace" c-tor though
[16:16] <manadart> achilleasa: Yeah, that's OK for now.
[16:45] <nammn_de1> rick_h and anyone else regarding the "not returning an error if no controller is found". I would love to have some opinions on this one https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/10985/files#diff-bcdb02984a8543f1187ed21cb4812a8fL206 Just opened a draft to see how one could handle it. Wrote more on the gh PR
[16:46] <rick_h> nammn_de1:  cool otp but will take a peek after lunch ty
[16:47] <nammn_de1> rick_h: sure its just initial draft to discuss possible solutions, as this would require changes on multiple places
[16:53] <achilleasa> manadart: I think I found the issue that broke that test...
[17:15] <manadart> achilleasa: nice.
[17:29] <achilleasa> manadart: when I added the new shims for testing the link layer device update path I accidentally made the StateMachine interface in the instancepoller test code incompatible with what FindEntity returned...
[17:29] <achilleasa> obviously it worked with the mocked state in the instancepoller package but exploded for that particular agent test
[17:54] <kwmonroe> hey gnuoy, i've read the upstream issues once per hour since you pinged me, and i still don't have a good feeling about the ramifications of removing allow_hosts.  punting to cory_fu because he loves issues like https://github.com/juju-solutions/layer-basic/issues/149
[17:58] <gnuoy> haha, sounds good to me
[17:59] <cory_fu> kwmonroe, gnuoy: Since we have a pre-bootstrap step to update pip & setuptools, as long as those get the new enough version to have the "never use easy_install" behavior for packages using install_requires, I think it should probably be ok.  Definitely should get plenty of testing, though.
[18:00] <cory_fu> Oh, it probably depends more on the version of pip & setuptools used by the build process, actually, rather than at deploy time.
[18:00] <cory_fu> Should make it easier to test, at least.
[18:03] <cory_fu> Oh, nm, that bit is in fact to ensure that the bootstrap phase doesn't hit pypi for some packages.  So it does require a deploy test, and it requires one in a network-restricted environment (or at least blocking pypi, or maybe checking the logs for indications that pypi is being used)
[18:03] <cory_fu> gnuoy: So, testing will be a pain, but I'm cautiously optimistic that it will work fine.
[18:05] <cory_fu> I really really hope we can come up with a better method for dependency management for charms soon (new framework, then maybe backported to reactive).  I'm hopeful that the ESM stuff can inform us on better patterns
[22:40] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: I'm updating the CrossModelRelations client to be able to talk to either v2 or v1 of the server API (expanding the v1 events into v2 ones if needed). I don't think I need to do that for the RemoteRelations, since that's inside one controller - the API version will always be >= than the "client" (actually a worker in the controller agent anyway).
[22:40] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: does that make sense to you?