[05:45] <shiggitay> rsalveti, poke poke ping ping
[09:47] <aquarius> Chipaca, sorry, I was in the pub :-)
[10:03] <popey> \o/
[15:04] <AlexandreSa> Have some form to unlock secure boot in nexus 4? I am can't install ubuntu phone in my nexus 4
[15:45] <mario1955> !list
[15:46] <mario1955> ciao
[23:28] <MissionCoder> Greetings! I was wondering how/if I would go about installing a webserver on my Nexus 5, potential Ubuntu Touch device.
[23:35] <Elleo> MissionCoder: if you make it writable (install phablet-utils on your desktop and run 'phablet-config writable-image') you can just apt-get install apache or similar
[23:36] <MissionCoder> Elleo: I doubt that it would have enough power to do that though.. Would I need something really bare?
[23:36] <Elleo> MissionCoder: what do you mean? apache runs on much lower end hardware than a nexus 5
[23:37] <Elleo> MissionCoder: you could install something lighter if you want though, any webserver in the ubuntu repositories is likely to work
[23:38] <Elleo> MissionCoder: make sure you install the vivid image though, not the RTM one (the RTM repositories don't contain everything that the vivid ones do)
[23:41] <Elleo> MissionCoder: that's only really for personal use, if you're wanting to develop something with a webserver to distribute to end users then it becomes rather more complicated
[23:42] <MissionCoder> Elleo: God no.. I wouldn't want to utilise a device that I have acquired for my personal comfort for a relatively large sum of money just to simply have it lay in the corner, I could have spent a much lesser amount to do just the same.
[23:43] <Elleo> MissionCoder: I meant more in terms of distributing an app to other users that makes use of a webserver (instead of having it sit around being a webserver all the time, which you could do if you wanted to)
[23:44] <MissionCoder> Luckily, I have no intentions for that.
[23:44] <Elleo> then you shouldn't have any trouble (that said I haven't actually tried running apache on my phone, but I don't see any reason it wouldn't work)
[23:45] <MissionCoder> Now I need to find time for myself to actually get the dual-boot thingy set up.
[23:45] <MissionCoder> Should I update Android to 5.0.1 first?
[23:46] <Elleo> you're probably safest on 4.x, I doubt 5.x has been tested much with dual boot yet
[23:46] <Elleo> apparently multirom is the easiest way to dualboot
[23:46] <Elleo> can't really suggest more than that though, since I only singleboot ubuntu
[23:47] <MissionCoder> Are there some features that you miss from Android?
[23:50] <Elleo> could do with a podcast client, but someone will write one eventually
[23:51] <Elleo> pretty much everything else I need personally is there now, but everyone needs different things
[23:53] <MissionCoder> Elleo: Alright, I also heard somebody mention to me that IU should think about getting myself a card reader case, but there aren't any that I can find. Would you know of any per chance?>
[23:54] <Elleo> card reader case? as in one that handles sdcards?
[23:54] <Elleo> haven't seen anything like that myself
[23:56] <MissionCoder> I would've imagined it shouldn't be too difficult to implement something like that, given that a card reader is supported and there are battery cases already.
[23:57] <Elleo> well, I'd guess something like that would have to use USB OTG, no idea UT supports that yet
[23:57] <Elleo> no idea if UT supports that yet*
[23:58] <Elleo> from a bit of googling it sounds like OTG stuff might work (at least it seems to for input devices)
[23:59] <Elleo> although that might not necessarily hold true for the nexus 5 port, since that's an unofficial one


[12:54] <\sh> ajmitch: gallery is available again...http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/ at the usual place :)
[02:12] <bddebian> Heya gang
[02:15] <nictuku> hi bddebian!
[02:15] <ajmitch> hello bddebian
[02:15] <bddebian> Heya nictuku
[02:15] <bddebian> and ajmitch
[02:16] <ajmitch> bddebian: you were trying to bug me earlier?
[02:16] <bddebian> ajmitch: Do you think zope2.8 is worth fixing or should apps be made to build with zope3?
[02:16] <nictuku> I wonder if I can help with some random bugs. Let me browse them :-)
[02:17] <ajmitch> if you knew zope, you'd know that's a really really silly question ;)
[02:17] <ajmitch> no offense, but zope3 is quite a different API
[02:17] <chillywilly> hi
[02:17] <bddebian> ajmitch: Well I don't know zope but it's on my unmet deps list :-)
[02:17] <ajmitch> massive porting work involved
[02:17] <zul> heylo
[02:17] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[02:17] <ajmitch> bddebian: no, it's on my bug list :P
[02:17] <bddebian> ajmitch: OK
[02:17] <bddebian> ajmitch: So are you going to replace python2.3-xml with 2.4-xml in zope2.8?
[02:18] <ajmitch> no
[02:18] <ajmitch> the only unmet dep bug open for zope2.8 is bug 35998
[02:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35998 in zope2.8 "zope2.8 uninstallable" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35998
[02:19] <bddebian> ajmitch: Many of the unmet deps on LP depend on zope2.7 | zope2.8 :-)
[02:19] <ajmitch> bddebian: have you looked at the bug reports for those? most of those I've assigned to me already
[02:19] <bddebian> When?
[02:19] <ajmitch> when dholbach did his mass-filinf
[02:20] <bddebian> Hmm, no I didn't notice that
[02:20] <bddebian> never mind....
[02:20] <ajmitch> I appreciate your desire to fix things :)
[02:20] <ajmitch> but I'm also waiting on bug #39631
[02:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39631 in Ubuntu "sync and removal requests: zope*" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39631
[02:20] <bddebian> I'm glad someone does :-)
[02:20] <ajmitch> after that mess settles I can attack the rest
[02:21] <bddebian> Syncs are never going to happen ;-P
[02:21] <ajmitch> stop  being so pessimistic
[02:22] <bddebian> :-)
[02:23] <ajmitch> I should upload this python2.3-xml to universe now
[02:23] <ajmitch> & see if it gets through NEW
[02:28] <bddebian> I thought we were only carrying python2.3 and python2.3-dev?
[02:29] <ajmitch> no
[02:30] <ajmitch> since all the zope2.x products require python2.3 & various python2.3-* packages...
[02:30] <ajmitch> so if you happen to remove one I need... ;)
[02:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 3897 in apt-listbugs "It always says "No report available:" when you ask for bug details." [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3897
[02:31] <ajmitch> basically if zope breaks, then plone breaks
[02:31] <ajmitch> and plone is a very popular CMS
[02:32] <zul> and people get pissed
[02:32] <ajmitch> I will
[02:32] <ajmitch> since I need it for work
[02:32] <nictuku> can I change the status to "Unconfirmed" myself?
[02:34] <ajmitch> for edgy it won't matter, but for dapper plone will still run on zope 2.8
[02:34] <ajmitch> nictuku: you can, but unconfirmed means leaving the bug report open
[02:38] <StevenK> ... and others.
[02:38] <ajmitch> morning StevenK
[02:38] <nictuku> hi StevenK
[02:39] <StevenK> Does anyone know anything about pkgstriptranslations?
[02:39] <ajmitch> pitti will :)
[02:41] <StevenK> I uploaded a new version of ldaptor ripping out the Python2.3 stuff, and fixing, oh three FTBFSes along the way, to end up pkgstriptranslations barfing on my upload and bombing out.
[02:42] <nictuku> I could not reproduce bug #6124
[02:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6124 in beep-media-player "beep media player playlist clik makes system freeze after program reopen" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6124
[02:42] <ajmitch> StevenK: ok, I'll get round to killing you later then
[02:42] <StevenK> Oh?
[02:42] <ajmitch> ;)
[02:43] <StevenK> ajmitch: Bring it on. :-P
[02:43] <ajmitch> heh
[02:43] <ajmitch> I'll probably be visiting in june/july :)
[02:44] <StevenK> ajmitch: If it's June, you can come to my birthday bash.
[02:44] <crimsun> nictuku: please note it as a comment.
[02:44] <ajmitch> StevenK: late june
[02:44] <StevenK> Aw
[02:44] <ajmitch> StevenK: when's your birthday?
[02:44] <StevenK> Early June.
[02:44] <nictuku> crimsun, I did.
[02:44] <ajmitch> ah
[02:44] <ajmitch> mine as well
[02:44] <nictuku> I was wondering what you guys do with old, unreproductible bugs
[02:45] <StevenK> ajmitch: 8th. You?
[02:45] <ajmitch> 12th
[02:46] <StevenK> Ohhhh, look at all of the zope stuff in UNMETDEPS.
[02:47] <ajmitch> look at how many are assigned to me
[02:47] <ajmitch> most of those are because zope2.7 & 2.8 are uninstallable
[02:47] <crimsun> leave them
[02:47] <ajmitch> due to python2.3 packages being mercilessly ripped out
[02:47] <crimsun> nictuku: leave them
[02:47] <StevenK> ajmitch: Ahh.
[02:48] <StevenK> python2.1 is also uninstallable.
[02:48] <ajmitch> hence my threats of further maiming ;)
[02:48] <ajmitch> python2.1 is horribly out of date
[02:48] <ajmitch> python2.5 alpha 2 is already out
[02:49] <StevenK> Should we just punt python2.1 from the archive?
[02:49] <ajmitch> yes
[02:49] <ajmitch> it's already being discussed, I think
[02:50] <ajmitch> I wonder where my upload went
[02:50] <ajmitch> it hasn't been quite 30 minutes, but still..
[02:50] <StevenK> It looks like most of the UNMETDEPS bugs have already been claimed.
[02:50] <ajmitch> yes
[02:51] <ajmitch> you have to get in quick around here
[02:51] <ajmitch> don't worry, there's 10K other open bugs for you
[02:51] <StevenK> Reckon
[02:51] <bddebian> heh
[02:53] <bddebian> ajmitch: Won't they work with python2.4?
[02:53] <bddebian> 2.1 needs removed
[02:53] <ajmitch> bddebian: zope2.8 & below only support up to python 2.3
[02:53] <bddebian> Bummin
[02:53] <StevenK> Wheee.
[02:53] <ajmitch> zope 2.9 requires python 2.4.2+
[02:55] <StevenK> "interchange packages require non-threaded perl"
[02:55] <StevenK> Mmmm, yummy.
[02:55] <ajmitch> in other words, their code is broken enough to trip up on a threaded perl :)
[02:56] <StevenK> Yup.
[02:58] <StevenK> I wonder if I need a UVF for a package that FTBFS, which I'd like to get synced from Debian.
[02:59] <ajmitch> yes
[02:59] <ajmitch> if it's a new upstream version, then always yes :)
[02:59] <ajmitch> the fact that it FTBFS just makes things a bit easier to explain
[03:00] <StevenK> ajmitch: The version in question is already in the archive, it just fails to build.
[03:00] <ajmitch> ah
[03:00] <ajmitch> then if you're not getting a new upstream, just ask for a sync :)
[03:00] <ajmitch> simple :)
[03:00] <ajmitch> what matters is the source package version in the archive
[03:00] <StevenK> It's one of doko's packages, and he asked me, "When you upload it, can you put your name in the Maintainer field." :-)
[03:01] <ajmitch> haha
[03:01] <ajmitch> what package is it?
[03:01] <StevenK> spe
[03:02] <ajmitch> right
[03:02] <ajmitch> maybe this upload has caught another soyuz bug ;)
[03:03] <StevenK> Heh
[03:04] <StevenK> Awww, Warty is still marked as SUPPORTED.
[03:05] <ajmitch> kill it
[03:05] <ajmitch> now
[03:05] <bddebian> heh
[03:07] <ajmitch> nictuku: what packaging work have you done?
[03:07] <StevenK> ajmitch: It was supposed to be EoL'd on the 30th, IIRC.
[03:07] <ajmitch> StevenK: exactly. someone's sleeping on the job
[03:08] <StevenK> Ah.
[03:08] <nictuku> ajmitch, I've packaged pycacic and nwu from scratch (both are in revu), and I've done some small fixes here and there. I'm working to improve those skills, though
[03:09] <ajmitch> do you think that is enough to be given unrestrained upload rights to universe? :)
[03:09] <nictuku> no. :-)
[03:09] <ajmitch> ah
[03:09] <ajmitch> then how soon is soon? :)
[03:09] <nictuku> that's why I said "hoping to apply soon".
[03:09] <nictuku> when I feel very comfortable with packaging
[03:10] <ajmitch> and can quote debian policy backwards, like StevenK?
[03:11] <zul> eh? the standard's have been raised since i have become a motu?
[03:11] <zul> :)
[03:11] <ajmitch> hehe
[03:12] <nictuku> maybe that is a test for my enthusiasm
[03:12] <ajmitch> pass the initiation of the MOTUs? ;)
[03:13] <zul> is that like the stonecutters?
[03:13] <StevenK> Just wait until mako shines his spotlight in your eyes.
[03:13] <ajmitch> what about the comfy chair?
[03:13] <nictuku> at least I've walked some way in the process, since I managed to be a member.
[03:14] <StevenK> No comfy chair. It's in a bare room with a large spotlight and water dripping onto your head.
[03:14] <ajmitch> hey zakame
[03:14] <ajmitch> StevenK: no cushions?
[03:14] <StevenK> You're lucky if the back of the chair doesn't fall off.
[03:15] <ajmitch> heh
[03:15] <zakame> heya ajmitch!
[03:15] <ajmitch> nictuku: see what fun it'll be to join the MOTUs?
[03:15] <nictuku> well someone has to update the MOTU recruitment wiki. It is too friendly, I guess.
[03:15] <ajmitch> yes
[03:15] <ajmitch> no sense of impending doom at all
[03:16] <zakame> nictuku: needing your love? =)
[03:16] <bddebian> Hmm
[03:16] <nictuku> I could stand some sticks under my nails. I really want to help
[03:18] <zul> heh...motu's keep the metric system down, hold back the electric car...we do we do
[03:19] <ajmitch> :)
[03:19] <bddebian> StevenK: :-)
[03:20] <ajmitch> StevenK: so do you want to meet up for a beer^Wkeysigning in july?
[03:20] <zakame> indeed indeed
[03:20] <ajmitch> I think I'll be in sydney for a week or two
[03:21] <StevenK> ajmitch: Sounds good. I might have to drag you over to my place for dinner, too.
[03:21] <ajmitch> I could probably manage that
[03:22] <zul> for the winecfg shouldnt the default be alsa? #42169
[03:23] <crimsun> zul: reportedly the alsa output isn't as robust
[03:24] <zul> really? thats not really surprising :0
[03:24] <crimsun> ...and I just got blame in #ubuntu for someone losing his NTFS partition to Beta 2's live installer.
[03:24] <ajmitch> crimsun: impressive
[03:24] <zul> lol
[03:24] <crimsun> why the heck do I even bother?
[03:24] <ajmitch> since it's obviously your fault
[03:24] <bddebian> Yeah, bastage! :-)
[03:25] <ajmitch> crimsun: I know, it's hard trying to help people at times
[03:25] <zul> crimsun: you are just too malicious
[03:25] <ajmitch> I generally just watch those channels, when I can
[03:26] <nictuku> :-( why did you do that? poor user
[03:26] <zakame> crimsun: aww *patpat*
[03:26] <ajmitch> nictuku: seriously, this user was abusing crimsun in #ubuntu
[03:27] <StevenK> But isn't that what crimsun is for?
[03:27] <nictuku> sorry, I was joking.
[03:27] <ajmitch> I know
[03:27] <ajmitch> but I just read what happened, and it doesn't make me happy
[03:29] <nictuku> I'm not very talented on dealing with angry users. I had some troubles in #ubuntu-br too
[03:30] <nictuku> specially those that starts cursing #ubuntu because no one there could help him.
[03:32] <ajmitch> that frequently happens, I think
[03:34] <ajmitch> yes
[03:34] <ajmitch> we usually do that
[03:34] <ajmitch> well..
[03:34] <ajmitch> depends on the bug, I guess ;)
[03:34] <nictuku> sorry to ask again, but you guys really just leave unreproductible bugs open, even after many users confirming it works for them?
[03:35] <bddebian> nictuku: I suppose it depends unfortunately
[03:35] <ajmitch> nictuku: considering there are > 10000 bugs, expecting us to close bugs as soon as someone comments saying 'works for me' is a little unrealistic
[03:36] <ajmitch> sometimes the bug will still exist, but the people testing haven't come across the case where it breaks
[03:37] <nictuku> and sorry if it's obvious, but what is the difference between unconfirmed and need info?
[03:37] <StevenK> Ohh, it's even unreproducible with Breezy.
[03:37] <ajmitch> need info means we're waiting for more information from the bug reporter, eg backtrace, version numbers
[03:37] <ajmitch> StevenK: wonderful!
[03:39] <StevenK> ajmitch: Figured it out.
[03:39] <nictuku> ok, that makes the first lesson: don't be frusted with the fact of having a dozen thousand open bugs. right?
[03:43] <bddebian> StevenK: So get on it.. :-)
[03:44] <ajmitch> back later
[03:47] <StevenK> bddebian: I'm working on 'em
[03:47] <nictuku> is it of any help for a non-uploader to fix UNMETDEPS ? or doesn't that help much?
[03:48] <bddebian> nictuku: Absolutely.  Just attach a diff to the bug
[04:03] <zul> everybody got quiet all of the sudden
[04:03] <ajmitch> yes, I left :)
[04:03] <zul> yeah
[04:03] <zul> that must be it
[04:04] <LaserJock> I'm here zul
[04:05] <zul> wohoo!
[04:05] <zul> ;)
[04:14] <bddebian> What is up with libswt-gtk-3.1?
[04:14] <ajmitch> it's java
[04:14] <ajmitch> it's evil
[04:15] <bddebian> Yeah, well it's broken
[04:15] <ajmitch> so fix it
[04:15] <chillywilly> ya mon
[04:16] <bddebian> Well why is there libswt3.1-gtk-java but no libswt3.1-gtk?
[04:16] <bddebian> But there is libswt-gtk-3.1 and libswt-gtk-3.1-java
[04:16] <ajmitch> because of package naming?
[04:20] <nictuku> 41572 seems to justify a sync from debian. It's only a locales package. what do you think?
[04:20] <ajmitch> 'only locales' he says :)
[04:20] <bddebian> nictuku: Did you try the Debian package? :-)
[04:23] <LaserJock> ack, do you guys know if it is possible to unsubscribe from a bug?
[04:23] <ajmitch> nictuku: sadly it'd probably break with mozilla-thunderbird-enigmail
[04:24] <ajmitch> which is the package that most people would care about
[04:24] <LaserJock> what's a little breakage here or there? hehe ;-)
[04:24] <nictuku> ajmitch, the diff shows a lot of changes, but I can't follow them (.jar, .rdf and debian/* files)
[04:25] <ajmitch> nictuku: I saw that just by looking at the depends line
[04:28] <LaserJock> bddebian: mind if I close the python-scipy-core unmet dep bug now?
[04:28] <bddebian> LaserJock: Is it fixed? :-)
[04:29] <LaserJock> bddebian: I assume so, I'm not sure how to exactly test that? was scipy-core not installing at all?
[04:29] <bddebian> Oh, hmm, did I ever upload it?
[04:30] <LaserJock> bddebian: yeah, I'm just not sure why it was broken
[04:30] <LaserJock> I've installed it recently I think
[04:30] <LaserJock> hi tritium
[04:30] <tritium> hi LaserJock
[04:31] <bddebian> Heya tritium
[04:31] <nictuku> well I'll that anyway
[04:31] <tritium> hey there bddebian
[04:31] <nictuku> let me see where it breaks
[04:31] <bddebian> LaserJock: Yeah, it looks like I removed the python2.3 pacckage
[04:31] <LaserJock> bddebian: it installed fine on my dapper box, but I never knew it had a problem. Must have occured between installs ;-)
[04:35] <bddebian> he
[04:35] <bddebian> +h
[04:37] <bddebian> Oh, zul broke swingwt :-)
[04:40] <zul> hmm?
[04:51] <nictuku> I'm updating enigmail-locales sid package to 0.94, getting the .xpi's for that version and merging it to the package in sid (which has the locales files for 0.93). let's see if it works
[04:53] <nictuku> there are even some new languages added in that version. We could make packages for those too, what do you think?
[04:59] <nictuku> we are in a freeze, so I guess that will have to wait..
[05:08] <LaserJock> hmm, for a UVF exception is the diffstat of the .orig.tar.gz better than a diff of the whole source package?
[05:08] <nictuku> "dpkg-source: unrepresentable changes to source"
[05:10] <nictuku> ah :-) debian/rules binary clean
[05:17] <LaserJock> anybody got a AMD64 pbuilder available?
[05:19] <ajmitch> yes
[05:19] <ajmitch> LaserJock: what do you need?
[05:24] <LaserJock> ajmitch: can I get you to build praat from Debian unstable?
[05:24] <ajmitch> sure, just a min
[05:25] <ajmitch> building
[05:27] <ajmitch> so many compile warnings..
[05:28] <LaserJock> hmm
[05:28] <ajmitch> ok, built
[05:29] <LaserJock> ajmitch: could I get you to install it and just see if doesn't segfault when you run it?
[05:29] <LaserJock> or, I guess it is supposed to hang on startup
[05:30] <ajmitch> it'd have to be done later, I'm still at work :)
[05:31] <LaserJock> ajmitch: ok, np. If you can just tell me whenever you get to it.
[05:31] <ajmitch> ok
[05:31] <LaserJock> I'm trying to get a UVF exception but the main bug fix is for AMD64
[05:37] <StevenK> LaserJock: I can have a try.
[05:39] <LaserJock> StevenK: k, that would be cool
[05:41] <StevenK> Oh, crap, I can't run it here either.
[05:41] <LaserJock> lol
[06:05] <LaserJock> hi imbrandon and keyes
[06:05] <imbrandon> heya lazerjock
[06:06] <imbrandon> hey anyone in here wanna confim something for me, monodevelop should require libgdiplus package ( it will run without but crashes randomly and has screen redraw problems ) anyone have monodevelop installed?
[06:08] <imbrandon> never mind found it in launchpad
[06:33] <nictuku> hmm
[06:34] <nictuku> it's so fun to work with deb packages of moz applications
[06:40] <G0SUB> hello!
[06:41] <G0SUB> how do I generate a locale?
[06:41] <G0SUB> dpkg-reconfigure locales doesn't give me options to select locales to generate anymore
[06:48] <TheMuso> c
[06:49] <Mithrandir> hi TheMuso, I was just looking for you.
[06:49] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: the reason why your changes haven't been uploaded is it's been a weekend and yesterday was a national holiday in .no, so I have tried to do at least some other stuff than sitting in front of my computer.
[06:50] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: Thats fine.
[06:50] <lifeless> Mithrandir: omg, a life ?! did your partner die of shock ?
[06:50] <lifeless> :)
[06:51] <Mithrandir> lifeless: no, she was mostly busy either sewing or sitting in front of her computer. :-P
[06:51] <lifeless> ahha!
[06:51] <Mithrandir> (though, we did help out at my stepmother's cabin on Saturday, opening up for the season)
[06:54] <nictuku> G0SUB, tried locale-gen ?
[06:55] <nictuku> hehe packaging mozilla extensions seems to be an art of its own
[07:00] <G0SUB> nictuku: earlier reconfiguring locales would give me an option to select which locales to install
[07:18] <crimsun> G0SUB: if you're not using System> Administration> Language Support, then you need to pass the list of locales from /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED that you want to locale-gen, as nictuku mentioned.
[07:19] <G0SUB> crimsun: there is a bug.
[07:19] <G0SUB> crimsun: selecting bengali from that menu installs the langpacks but doesn't generate the locale
[07:19] <G0SUB> crimsun: so there is no language option in gdm
[07:19] <nictuku> G0SUB, the lack of a debconf interface for picking locales seems to 'work as intended'
[07:20] <nictuku> ah
[07:20] <G0SUB> nictuku: the debconf interface was pretty cool
[07:21] <nictuku> me agrees!
[07:21] <nictuku> there isn't even an explantion in the changelog or README :-(
[07:43] <nictuku> going to bed
[07:43] <nictuku> good night all
[07:43] <ajmitch> night
[07:46] <crimsun> 'night
[08:50] <dholbach> hello motu world
[08:50] <dholbach> GUYS!
[08:50] <dholbach> You've been doing incredible job on the UNMETDEPS
[08:50] <dholbach> I'll have to think of something new for you! :)
[08:51] <ajmitch> hey dholbach
[08:52] <ajmitch> and we've got a few new people involved with the dh_iconcache changes :)
[08:52] <dholbach> nice
[08:52] <dholbach> that sounds soooo good
[08:52] <dholbach> you guys rock
[08:52] <Hobbsee> hey dholbach
[08:52] <ajmitch> you've been doing a great job getting people to work though
[08:53] <ajmitch> Hobbsee is another one we're very happy to have working now :)
[08:53] <dholbach> hey Hobbsee
[08:53] <ajmitch> you are!
[08:53] <ajmitch> :P
[08:54] <Hobbsee> even though it happens so many times, i still havent really gotten used to being called a guy, when i'm not :P
[08:55] <ajmitch> we don't mean to exclude you in any way, shape or form :)
[08:59] <Mithrandir> good morning, dudes and dudettes.
[09:00] <Hobbsee> hehe i know :)
[09:00] <Hobbsee> i know that - it just still *feels* odd - parituclarly if i i happen to be wearing a skirt, and so am really obvious :P
[09:02] <Mithrandir> skirts rock.
[09:03] <sladen> morning girls and boys
[09:04] <ajmitch> hello sladen
[09:05] <sladen> ajmitch: don't think it's "morning" in Nez Zealand though :)
[09:09] <Hobbsee> hehe
[09:09] <Hobbsee> hey sladen
[09:09] <Hobbsee> no, it's not, it's 7pm there...
[09:10] <Mithrandir> it's always morning on IRC
[09:10] <Hobbsee> :P
[09:11] <Mithrandir> it's called IGT and is a special time zone, just for IRC.
[09:12] <ajmitch> of course, how else could we live our lives?
[09:14] <Hobbsee> hehe
[09:38] <sladen> Hobbsee: I was pointing somebody at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WPAHowto but that seems to possibily be out-of-date compared to the current status of network-manager and latest dapper
[09:38] <Hobbsee> sladen: yeah, that is out of date.  it does work, if you dont want to use network-manager though
[09:39] <sladen> Hobbsee: oooh, okay.  It's not me trying to get it to work, but somebody else;  are there better instructions anywhere?  At the moment it's like the blind leading the blind
[09:40] <sladen> since my only interaction with WPA was at Debconf last year where I pissed around for a day and then just went back to using nice reliable cables
[09:40] <Hobbsee> no...i rewrote it, but it got changed back - and i dont have a copy of what i changed...
[09:40] <Hobbsee> i'd try using it thru n-m
[01:11] <siretart> dholbach: when approving uvf-requests, I started to assign the bug from motu-uvf to the person who will handle the upload/sync/etc. Do you see any problems with that?
[01:13] <zakame> bug 42205
[01:13] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42205 in pcmciautils "wireless card stops working after installing pcmciautils on 2.6.12" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42205
[01:14] <zakame> erm, bug 42055
[01:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42055 in gnome-ppp "Latest update breaks functionality" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42055
[01:14] <dholbach> siretart: no, not at all.
[01:14] <dholbach> siretart: that's fine
[01:14] <siretart> ok. will continue to do so
[01:15] <siretart> dholbach: are all hug days on wednesday, btw?
[01:15] <lucas> hi all
[01:15] <dholbach> no, we switched the times a bit, but plan to stay midweek
[01:15] <siretart> hey lucas
[01:15] <siretart> ok
[01:15] <dholbach> as it seems to suit a lot of people better
[01:21] <zakame> can my good peers comment on bug 42055 :D gnome-ppp needs love =)
[01:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42055 in gnome-ppp "Latest update breaks functionality" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42055
[01:23] <siretart> lucas: please let understand the issue: how many reverse depends does ruby1.9 have? what risk do you think comes with a ruby1.9 update?
[01:24] <lucas> I haven't checked rev depends. but 4 packages fail to build because ruby1.9 doesn't build on amd64
[01:24] <lucas> not much risk ; it's a dev snapshot anyway
[01:25] <siretart> lucas: well, upgrading a dev snapshot sounds risky for all reverse depends
[01:26] <lucas> then, somebody has to find the bug and fix it, because it's a much bigger problem to release without ruby1.9
[01:26] <lucas> (and I won't, I'm over-busy for at least a month)
[01:27] <siretart> hm. any idea why ruby1.9 ftbfs on amd64 only?!
[01:28] <lucas> crappy network here ...
[01:29] <zakame> hi \sh!
[01:29] <\sh> moins
[01:31] <Toadstool> hi here
[01:31] <Toadstool> siretart: looks like it is a ruby segfault when it runs the test suite...
[01:38] <kelmo_lap> moin
[01:38] <\sh> clamav has a security hole .... announcement: http://www.clamav.net/security/0.88.2.html
[01:43] <siretart> Toadstool: and it is reproducable
[01:44] <Toadstool> yep
[01:44] <siretart> Toadstool: I'd really love to see a list of reverse depends affected by a possible ruby1.9 update, and a few test rebuilds. can you care for this?
[01:44] <siretart> hey kelmo_lap
[01:44] <Toadstool> siretart: i'm on it :)
[01:45] <\sh> siretart: uvf exception for security fixes possible?
[01:46] <\sh> siretart: moins btw :)
[01:50] <siretart> hey \sh ! :)
[01:50] <siretart> mom
[01:51] <Ibalon> heya siretart \sh
[01:51] <\sh> siretart: see heise and the attached security advisory :) I'm checking what the other changes are, or if it's better to backport the fix
[01:53] <\sh> well it's worth it...
[01:55] <Hobbsee> hi \sh
[01:56] <siretart> \sh: Is it really a new upstream version or just a patch to the current version?
[01:56] <siretart> \sh: if the latter, then just go on with uploading, no uvf exception necessary
[02:02] <\sh> siretart: the security fix I can fix via patch...
[02:02] <\sh> let's see if I can backport all changes
[02:03] <siretart> \sh: I'd suggest diffing the 2 versions, and look at the diff. for an uvf exception, you need to create that diff and diffstat anyway
[02:03] <\sh> siretart: yeah, if i can avoid it it's not much....
[02:04] <siretart> often security fixes are just a couple of patch hunks...
[02:21] <Toadstool> siretart: I just tested rebuilding a few ruby1.9 rdepends on i386 and amd64 and it works just fine
[02:21] <\sh> siretart: backported the important parts to 0.88.1 ... security fix included...
[02:21] <siretart> Toadstool: how many reverse deps are there? could you please add this information to the bugreport, so it doesn't get lost? (I mean that you tried building it and what reverse deps you tried to rebuild
[02:22] <siretart> \sh: great! please attach the patch to the report and subscribe me. I'll happily sponsor you
[02:22] <Toadstool> siretart: yep adding my test results to the bug report
[02:23] <\sh> siretart: I'll file a bug report on launchpad, including debdiff what was your launchpad id again?
[02:28] <siretart> \sh: the same as my nick: 'siretart'
[02:33] <\sh> siretart: ok...uvf report :)
[02:33] <\sh> they changed more then the backport is worth...debdiff and diffstat attached to bugreport...
[02:34] <\sh> siretart: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/clamav/+bug/42568
[02:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42568 in clamav "Security issue fixed in 0.88.2" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[02:36] <\sh> one more cigarette then I have to buy a sleeping bag for tomorrow
[02:39] <\sh> siretart: are you visiting the LT?
[02:42] <siretart> \sh: yes, it looks like I'm coming on thursday evening, and will stay until saturday evening
[02:42] <\sh> siretart: cool...visit the kubuntu booth then :) I'll be waiting for you and a cup of coffee as well :)
[02:43] <siretart> \sh: I definitly will be there! :)
[02:43] <\sh> great .. ok have to hurry a bit...last preparations for LT :)
[02:43] <\sh> later guys
[02:44] <Toadstool> siretart: I've just updated the ruby1.9 bug report
[02:44] <Toadstool> if you have any comments... :)
[02:53] <lucas> Toadstool: excellent work :)
[02:53] <Toadstool> thanks lucas
[02:53] <lucas> Toadstool: libdb3-ruby ftbfs too because of this
[02:53] <lucas> but if libdb4.3 was fixed, this one will probably work too
[02:54] <Toadstool> yep, and libdb4.2 too
[02:54] <Toadstool> I can test right now
[03:32] <StevenK> Right. There is an update-pot sort of thing. The ldaptor.pot that falls out is empty.
[03:45] <phanatic> hi people
[03:45] <zakame> heya phanatic! =)
[03:45] <phanatic> hey zakame :)
[04:02] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:02] <crimsun> 'lo barry
[04:02] <bddebian> Hi Daniel
[04:03] <zakame> heya bddebian crimsun
[04:04] <bddebian> Hi zakame
[04:12] <phanatic> hey bddebian
[04:12] <bddebian> Hello phanatic
[05:49] <LaserJock> good morning MOTU Land!
[05:51] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[05:51] <phanatic> hi LaserJock
[05:59] <\sh> re
[06:00] <bddebian> \sh: I'm thinking I should pull an \sh and turn in my key :-)
[06:04] <\sh> lol
[06:05] <\sh> bddebian: i'm old, i'm fould, I'm forking ;)
[06:08] <\sh> bddebian: seriously, my time is counted in the moment...looks like that I will push again after dapper
[06:11] <bddebian> \sh: Well I'm old, fat, and apparently annoying :-)
[06:13] <\sh> bddebian: no you are not..at least "apparently annoying" is not correct...the rest I can't proove
[06:16] <bddebian> ?
[06:17] <\sh> bddebian: no you are not..at least "apparently annoying" is not correct...the rest (fat and old) I can't prove, checking
[06:17] <bddebian> Heh
[06:17] <\sh> what I wanted to say is, WE NEED YOU AND YOUR INPUT, friend :)
[06:18] <bddebian> \sh: Nah
[06:18] <LaserJock> bddebian: it's true
[06:21] <\sh> bddebian: really, you are great, you are not annoying..better to ask many times before making a mistake..that's great...I wish, i would do it the same way
[06:21] <bddebian> Bah.  You just do it right the first time :-)
[06:22] <\sh> bddebian: no ways...I never do anything right the first time...
[06:26] <\sh> oh well..I just came back from cologne...it's 25 degrees...and all the girls which are != german are so pretty...
[06:28] <\sh> indians, turkish, africans...wow...I have to leave this country...
[06:31] <Gloubiboulga> Is there someone in particular I need to hug to be added in the LP MOTU team? :)
[06:32] <LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: probably dholbach
[06:32] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: lemme try
[06:34] <dholbach> you're added
[06:34] <dholbach> ogra can make you a admin
[06:34] <Gloubiboulga> thanks Daniel
[06:35] <Gloubiboulga> ok
[06:35] <LaserJock> \sh: xchat-gnome is no longer installed by default, it would have to be gaim launchpad-integration
[06:36] <\sh> dholbach: so you went with some kde'ler to have some drinks? we could need a good kde guy like you ;)
[06:36] <\sh> LaserJock: whatever is serving the problem "connecting to irc"
[06:37] <\sh> but thinking of gaim as irc client is like thinking about emacs to be a slime line mail client
[06:38] <LaserJock> heh, well I'm a bit concerned about the whole thing because xchat was droped because it was said that IRC usage is not enough to warrant an IRC-only client
[06:39] <LaserJock> and then this IRC Support thing sounds like an Official support system.
[06:39] <dholbach> \sh: a kde guy like me? ... hum ....
[06:40] <\sh> dholbach: if you can drink with scott, you are a kde guy, hehe :)
[06:40] <\sh> LaserJock: who said this?
[06:40] <dholbach> If drinking is the only thing kde people need to know, I suppose you better pick somebody else
[06:40] <LaserJock> \sh: about what?
[06:41] <\sh> LaserJock: [18:38]  <LaserJock> heh, well I'm a bit concerned about the whole thing because xchat was droped because it was said that IRC usage is not enough to warrant an IRC-only client
[06:41] <\sh> who is "it"?
[06:41] <LaserJock> \sh: oh, the big guys. mdz or Kamion I think
[06:42] <\sh> LaserJock: oh wow...what drugs are they using? it's something like "well, let's remove postfix from default, because there is no usecase for having a smtp only software...let's use hula"
[06:43] <LaserJock> \sh: basically it came down to anybody who wanted to use IRC would be advanced enough to know how to install xchat
[06:43] <LaserJock> \sh: and instant messaging is used way more than IRC by users
[06:45] <LaserJock> anyway, it was sort of messy because then the doc team had to pull the links to #ubuntu from the docs because gaim doesn't handle irc:// if I remember correctly
[06:45] <\sh> well, to be frank, email is more used then IM or IRC..so why not remove IM and IRC? these thoughts are somehow totally crap...IRC is older then IM, and IRC has a more common user base..even totally dump people can use irc if they have it started..where as IM they have to know which buddies they have to add...
[06:47] <\sh> in the first place
[06:47] <LaserJock> \sh: anyway, the decision was made, although irssi is still installed by default. So know the irc clients are gaim and irssi :-)
[06:48] <\sh> lets replace irssi with centericq with irc support...
[06:48] <\sh> I wonder who will cry then ;)
[06:49] <\sh> simplifying gnome is one thing, but reducing functionality is the other..and proposing broken software like gaim is totally crap
[06:52] <Toadstool> siretart: here?
[06:54] <LaserJock> \sh: I know "Ubuntu, sponsored by the bug fixing talents of bddebian" ;-)
[06:54] <bddebian> Give me a break
[06:54] <\sh> rotfl..yeah that's a good one
[06:56] <dholbach> \sh: can you stop bickering?
[06:56] <ohoel> do any of you have a nice changelog formatter plugin of sorts for gedit handy?
[06:56] <\sh> dholbach: i'm doing what?
[06:56] <dholbach> It's different to propose something a solution or elaborate on a problem than to rant for ten minutes.
[06:57] <dholbach> "what drugs are they using?" ...
[06:57] <LaserJock> ohoel: hmm, that would be interesting to have. I don't know of any.
[06:58] <\sh> dholbach: aehm....that's nothing to worry about....I'm not bickering...
[06:58] <LaserJock> dholbach: my only concern was that the decision process didn't seem to be apparent at all. Did the desktop team make that decision?
[06:58] <dholbach> It's inappropriate, that's all I'm saying.
[06:58] <ohoel> LaserJock: I was advised to grab gedit off cvs as it has support for pyton in the text snippets plugin, but thought I'd ask here before I go churning ;)
[06:58] <dholbach> LaserJock: Voicing concerns is fine with me - but it depends how that's done.
[06:59] <dholbach> No, the Desktop Team didn't make that decision.
[06:59] <LaserJock> who did? do you know?
[06:59] <dholbach> Take the discussion to the mailing list - but I suppose it was discussed already.
[07:00] <\sh> dholbach: well, it's gnome anyways..but the decision was wrong, imho, and I never saw any discussion on u-d about it...
[07:00] <dholbach> \sh: I appreciate that you have concerns and want to discuss them. It's just the questions *how* you do that.
[07:01] <\sh> dholbach: I think "what drugs are they using" and kamions "when I'm not totally on crack" (from this morning) is quite normal in our area...I didn't insult anybody.
[07:01] <dholbach> Until now I didn't even say if I agree or disagree, but bickering for the sake of it, is completely out of place and I don't want to have that in here. It creates a bad atmosphere and has *no* effect on fixing the issue at all.
[07:02] <\sh> dholbach: so it's wrong to say "someone is totally wrong" just because of someones name and position? or don't I get the point?
[07:02] <dholbach> No, you're complaining and make snide remarks.
[07:03] <dholbach> \sh lets replace irssi with centericq with irc support...
[07:03] <dholbach> etc
[07:03] <\sh> dholbach: yes? that's what's "replacing xchat with gaim" is
[07:03] <dholbach> I personally think that gaim is not a nice irc client either
[07:03] <\sh> so where is that bickering?
[07:03] <dholbach> but that's not the point
[07:04] <dholbach> " well, to be frank, email is more used then IM or IRC..so why not remove IM and IRC? these thoughts are somehow totally crap..."
[07:04] <dholbach> that's bickering
[07:04] <dholbach> you know that it doesn't change anything, but you're just complaining
[07:07] <\sh> it's my opinion..it's not bickering, but if you see it this way, please do
[07:10] <Gloubiboulga> bddebian, I think you've uploaded a new xmedcon package (with dh_iconcache), right?
[07:11] <bddebian> Gloubiboulga: Hmm, sounds familiar.  Did I break it?
[07:12] <Gloubiboulga> bddebian, not at all, but it's not added on the wiki page :)
[07:12] <bddebian> Doh :-(
[07:12] <Gloubiboulga> bddebian, I'm editing it, I can file the cell for you
[07:19] <zyga> hey motus
[07:20] <bddebian> Heya zyga
[07:23] <LaserJock> ok, so anybody interested in science is welcome to come over to #ubuntu-science!
[07:24] <bddebian> Science is for geeks ;-P
[07:24] <LaserJock> actually it's for nerds but whatever
[07:26] <tseng> hi bddebian
[07:26] <bddebian> Heya tseng
[07:41] <Se7h> hi all
[07:42] <bddebian> Hello Se7h
[07:42] <Se7h> LaserJock, isn't gstreamer-rtp available ?
[07:42] <Se7h> hi bddebian
[07:50] <Tonio_> hi
[07:50] <bddebian> Heya Tonio_
[07:52] <LaserJock> Se7h: hmm?
[07:52] <Se7h> gstreamer0.8-rtp
[07:52] <LaserJock> Se7h: what about it?
[07:53] <tseng> nothing is using gstreamer 0.8
[07:53] <Se7h> where is it?
[07:53] <Se7h> lol
[07:53] <tseng> on my system
[07:53] <Se7h> :> cute
[07:56] <Se7h> another issue
[07:57] <Se7h> gstreamer-plugins-good wont upgrade for a dep of libcdio3, witch isnt available (only libcdio6)
[08:31] <chantra> hi, is there any admin around?
[08:31] <warpforge> do you have a question?
[08:31] <LaserJock> chantra: admin of what?
[08:32] <chantra> yep, I've uploaded a package t revu (updated one), but it doesn't seem to have made its way up?
[08:32] <chantra> revu
[08:32] <chantra> LaserJock: revu
[08:32] <tseng> siretart and siretart
[08:32] <tseng> uh
[08:32] <tseng> and sistpoty
[08:32] <chantra> cool cheers ;)
[08:32] <pygi> tseng: heh
[08:32] <LaserJock> chantra: did you upload a source package? *_source.changes?
[08:32] <chantra> siretart: I've uploaded gaim-2.0.0beta3
[08:33] <chantra> LaserJock: yep
[08:33] <LaserJock> chantra: how long ago?
[08:33] <chantra> Good signature on /home/tman/packages/gaim/gaim_2.0.0beta3-2ubuntu0_source.changes.
[08:33] <chantra> Checking Signature on .dsc
[08:33] <chantra> LaserJock: about 1h1/2 ago
[08:33] <chantra> should i just reupload it?
[08:34] <chantra> ended with Successfully uploaded packages.
[08:34] <chantra> :)
[08:35] <xixaq> hello people. I'm wondering. I've installed all of the repositories that come with ubuntu. I notice that some programs are listed twice. Isn't that a waste of space? :)
[08:35] <LaserJock> chantra: gaim_2.0.0beta3-2ubuntu0 ?
[08:35] <LaserJock> xixaq: like what?
[08:35] <chantra> LaserJock: yep, that's it
[08:36] <LaserJock> chantra: it's there
[08:36] <chantra> even I cleared my firefox cache, I still see gaim_2.0.0beta3-0ubuntu1_source.changes
[08:36] <chantra> on revu.tauware
[08:37] <warpforge> xixaq: There's a reason I didn't refer you to #ubuntu-motu. Your question doesn't need answering by admins.
[08:37] <xixaq> LaserJock: like python2.4-schoolbell and schoolbell.
[08:37] <LaserJock> chantra: what url are you going to?
[08:37] <LaserJock> xixaq: those are duplicates
[08:37] <LaserJock> s/are/aren't/
[08:38] <xixaq> oh.. Sorry :)
[08:38] <chantra> LaserJock: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2288
[08:38] <LaserJock> xixaq: no problem
[08:38] <Riddell> dholbach: are you doing the upstream version freeze exceptions for universe?
[08:39] <LaserJock> chantra: each upload gets a new upid. go back to the main revu web page and reload it
[08:39] <LaserJock> chantra: for instance, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2318 ;-)
[08:40] <chantra> arf LaserJock , sorry for that. As the previous one was still reloadiing fine I thought it was all good
[08:41] <chantra> :p
[08:41] <LaserJock> chantra: yeah, revu has each upload seperated
[08:42] <LaserJock> xixaq: sometimes the packages seem redundant but they actually have a purpose
[08:43] <LaserJock> xixaq: python packages are especially that way because they are byte compiled for each python version so there is a package for each python version (2.3 and 2.4)
[08:46] <lucas> I hate it when firefox crashes and I have > 10 tabs opened
[08:47] <lucas> LaserJock: you might be able to help me. what do you use for bibliography management ?
[08:47] <xixaq> LaserJock: I see. I just noticed that everything was identical, except the name. Version and description. Thought I'd make myself useful and report it. :) Perhaps I should wait until I learn more about how stuff works in this environment.
[08:48] <LaserJock> lucas: ack, nothing right now. I'll be starting writing my dissertation soon and I'll have to use some sort of bib manager for latex
[08:48] <lucas> have you considered using citeulike.org ?
[08:49] <LaserJock> xixaq: oh, np. thanks for look out for stuff. that is what makes Ubuntu rock. you are  welcome to hang out here and learn more about how it all works
[08:49] <xixaq> thank you. :)
[08:50] <LaserJock> lucas: looks pretty cool
[09:24] <LaserJock> dholbach or slomo: so can I upload a new praat now or do I need to wait for something else?
[09:54] <\sh> ok gentlemen, I'll see some of you during the linuxtag :)
[10:48] <LaserJock> crimsun: hello
[10:48] <crimsun> hi LaserJock
[10:51] <ajmitch> hi
[10:52] <crimsun> hi ajmitch
[11:04] <LaserJock> CC meeting is on
[11:12] <LaserJock> dholbach: did you happen to see my earlier question about the praat UVFe ?
[11:12] <crimsun> sigh, here we go again in #ubuntu
[11:12] <ajmitch> LaserJock: yes, sorry I didn't get back to you about testing that
[11:13] <dholbach> LaserJock: it'll be set to confirmed when it's ready - i'll have another look later - i
[11:13] <dholbach> m on the phone
[11:13] <LaserJock> dholbach: ok, fine. no problem
[11:14] <LaserJock> crimsun: what's going on?
[11:14] <crimsun> same shit as yesterday, excuse my language please
[11:15] <crimsun> I'm getting to the point where if Kyozabe1 says anything to me, I'm going to stand up and walk away.
[11:16] <lucas> crimsun: too much IRCing lately ? :)
[11:16] <crimsun> yeah, I think I reached that point about ten years ago
[11:17] <crimsun> anyhow, I'm ignoring him for everyone's sanity, since I'm sure you guys don't need to hear about it.
[11:17] <LaserJock> crimsun: I honestly don't know how you can spend so much time on #ubuntu
[11:22] <zul> heylo
[11:22] <ajmitch> hi zul
[11:23] <zul> hey ajmitch
[11:37] <bpuccio> hmmm, anyone know why I've been banned from #ubuntu? I haven't said anything all day, I just lurk there, found out I got banned when I just got home now
[11:46] <ajmitch> bpuccio: most likely tor again
[11:47] <bpuccio> ajmitch: damn and I thought I had filtered out all of the exit ports, time to look into locking it down further... I wonder if my ISP is willing to get me a second IP and how much that will cost
[11:47] <bpuccio> thanks, ajmitch
[11:48] <ajmitch> that was just a guess, but it's fairly common that tor sessions get blocked
[11:48] <ajmitch> not because of your specific one
[11:49] <ajmitch> 17:45 -!- 69 - #ubuntu: ban *!*@tor/session/* [by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>2588961 secs ago]
[11:51] <bpuccio> hmm, yeah, I'm not connecting to anything via tor at the moment, but I do run a (pretty locked down) exit node at the rate of 3GB per day of bandwidth, so I'm assuming it nabbed my IP because of that, thanks again
[11:52] <ajmitch> well you're connected to freenode via tor
[11:52] <ajmitch> at least according to whois
[11:54] <bpuccio> nope, don't have tor or privoxy installed on this machine
[11:54] <bpuccio> however a machine on this network (all share the same public IP) is a tor exit node
[11:54] <bpuccio> so it assumes (rightfully so I guess) that since this IP is part of the tor network that I'm connecting via tor
[11:55] <bpuccio> it can't tell the difference
[11:55] <ajmitch> probably
[11:55] <bpuccio> meh, I'm not worried, thanks for your time


[10:59] <gpocentek> hello
[11:00] <ajmitch> hi
[11:00] <crimsun> 'lo
[11:00] <dholbach> hello :)
[11:01] <ajmitch> everyone can look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meetings while we wait :)
[11:01] <dholbach> we'd have quorum :)
[11:01] <ajmitch> sistpoty went to bed about 5 hours ago, saying he'd try & be here :)
[11:02] <dholbach> ok, while we wait for sistpoty to run us through his items on the agenda... why doesn't one of us present the things we decided or looked at together until now.
[11:02] <ajmitch> aha!
[11:02] <ajmitch> welcome, sistpoty
[11:02] <dholbach> hello sistpoty
[11:02] <sistpoty> hi
[11:02] <gpocentek> hi sistpoty
[11:02] <dholbach> sistpoty: I was just saying: ok, while we wait for sistpoty to run us through his items on the agenda... why doesn't one of us present the things we decided or looked at together until now. :-)
[11:03] <sistpoty> hehe
[11:03] <dholbach> Ok... as some  of you might have gathered from lists or specs already: we decoupled the MOTU membership process from meetings completely.
[11:03] <ajmitch> so we've agreed so far on quorum (3), public list, what else?
[11:03] <ajmitch> yay
[11:03] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Hopeful/Recruitment describes the process for that
[11:04] <dholbach> it will all happen on a public mailing list, called<EMAIL_ADDRESS>(which is not created yet, but I'm pestering the sysadmins)
[11:04] <ajmitch> ok, thanks
[11:04] <dholbach> we further thought that there should be no incentive in subscribing to yet another mailing list. We'll try to keep only applications and administrative discussions on motu-council@ but do everything else on ubuntu-motu@
[11:05] <dholbach> so it's up to you if you subscribe or not - you're not likely to miss anything
[11:05] <ajmitch> another list will just be a drop in the bucket
[11:06] <crimsun> right, I think that's a good idea (maintains the "one-stop" MOTU feel and transparency)
[11:06] <dholbach> Probably, but it's nice to have MOTU discussions in one place.
[11:07] <dholbach> The MOTU Council was formed to have a body that is capable of making decisions, we thought that with five members in the team, a quorum of 3, a simple majority and a timeout of 48h would make sense.
[11:07] <ajmitch> less bureaucracy is good
[11:07] <dholbach> We documented that on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/Meetings already
[11:07] <ajmitch> the timeout avoids waiting arounf for consensus or reply from everyone
[11:07] <dholbach> Are there any questions up until now?
[11:07] <ajmitch> s/arounf/around/
[11:08] <crimsun> no questions from me.
[11:08] <sistpoty> nope
[11:08] <gpocentek> ok for me
[11:08] <dholbach> Ok super - why don't we kick off the meeting? :)
[11:08] <dholbach> new packages policy for MOTUs (sistpoty, as deferred from MOTU-Meeting)
[11:08] <sistpoty> is someone doing the minutes?
[11:09] <crimsun> I'll do minutes.
[11:09] <sistpoty> cool thanks crimsun
[11:09] <dholbach> we should get the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam involved :)
[11:09] <sistpoty> :)
[11:09] <dholbach> sistpoty: your floor
[11:09] <sistpoty> ok, new packages policy: we've discussed this on the motu meeting already... so I'll just give a short sum up
[11:09] <sistpoty> currently motu's need to go through revu and need 2 reviews for a new package
[11:10] <sistpoty> I think it would be better to drop that requirement and just make it a recommendation instead
[11:10] <dholbach> What about NEW packages from MOTU Hopefuls?
[11:11] <ajmitch> keep the 2 ACKs on REVU for them
[11:11] <dholbach> Wasn't the proposal to make it 1 successful review?
[11:11] <dholbach> Oh ok.
[11:11] <ajmitch> do you think that dropping it to 1 would be good?
[11:11] <gpocentek> I'd prefer to keep the 2 acks
[11:11] <dholbach> I think I remember people discussing it.
[11:12] <gpocentek> I often miss something when I review
[11:12] <crimsun> I agree w/ keeping the 2 ACKs for new source packages from non-ubuntu-dev members.
[11:12] <sistpoty> iirc we discussed this on motu-ml, and quite a few ppl. didn't like to get down on 1 vote
[11:13] <ajmitch> saying that MOTUs don't need to go through REVU is probably just acknowledging what already happens
[11:13] <dholbach> Ok, fine with me.
[11:13] <sistpoty> other opinions?
[11:14] <dholbach> Me too... it was often part of my job to get things done - or I just asked seb128 to give it a quick review.
[11:14] <gpocentek> same for me (for xubuntu packages)
[11:14] <dholbach> I personally think that new MOTUs will often be happy enough to still get a review.
[11:14] <Amaranth> i thought the whole point of being a MOTU was not having to go through the review process :)
[11:15] <ajmitch> Amaranth: it is, but for people who are newly made MOTUs, they can still benefit from reviewing
[11:15] <sistpoty> as I brought up the proposal, +1 from me
[11:15] <ajmitch> eg I don't think I'd expect a new MOTU to go & package up FDS without getting some help ;)
[11:15] <ajmitch> +1 from here
[11:15] <sistpoty> ok, great... let's move on then ;)
[11:15] <crimsun> +1 for dropping the 2 ACK requirement for new source packages for ubuntu-dev members
[11:16] <dholbach> +1 from me also
[11:16] <gpocentek> and +1 from me
[11:16] <dholbach> nice... consensus on the first MOTU Council decision
[11:16] <ajmitch> alright, exceptions for new packages during feature freeze..
[11:16] <ajmitch> :)
[11:16] <sistpoty> :)
[11:17] <dholbach> What was the Universe FF intended to be in the first place?
[11:17] <ajmitch> no new packages
[11:17] <ajmitch> there are people who have packages 'almost done' on revu that don't want to miss out
[11:17] <ajmitch> & then there's packages like glassfish & beryl which are being pushed by others
[11:18] <dholbach> Ok. In past releases the Technical Board was of the opinion that NEW packages were seldom of any harm, since they couldn't break existing functionality.
[11:18] <ajmitch> the intent of universe FF was that we have time to focus on bugfixing, rather than packaging & reviewing
[11:18] <sistpoty> well, it takes resources to review them, which were spent better with qa
[11:19] <dholbach> I think that it should be responsibility of the motu-uvf team to ack such requests (if we'd allow them in), which requirements should they ask for?
[11:19] <dholbach> I think it's pretty hard to draw a line there.
[11:19] <ajmitch> how's the motu-uvf team going with requests?
[11:19] <cjwatson> I'd recommend simple-to-review and high-importance as starting points for metrics, personally
[11:19] <dholbach> We're on top of things.
[11:20] <cjwatson> if you're making exceptions they need to be worthwhile ...
[11:20] <ajmitch> hi cjwatson
[11:20] <cjwatson> hi
[11:20] <cjwatson> practice in main is to be pretty liberal near the start of a given freeze and gradually tighten up
[11:20] <ajmitch> true, I've got some packages here that are worthwhile, but they wouldn't be easy to review
[11:21] <dholbach> Ok, so the proposal is "after 2 ACKs on REVU, the uvf team checks if the NEW package is worthwhile or not."?
[11:21] <crimsun> I'd like to request that we consider FF exception requests up until beta freeze (~Mar 15). I know of Ardour2, at least, which is going through a fairly lengthy beta 11.1 -> beta 12 -> RC testing period.
[11:22] <ajmitch> so a 3 week final window for new packages with some scrutiny?
[11:22] <dholbach> Although it'll mean more work for the uvf team (and me), I can see the point in the request.
[11:23] <ajmitch> dholbach: 'worthwhile' is fairly subjective, I hope it doesn't just end up pushing out FF by 3 weeks
[11:24] <dholbach> ajmitch: I know it is... if you can propose different requirements....?
[11:24] <sistpoty> I guess the first thing would be that the package has already been given two acks (in case it's from a hopeful)
[11:25] <sistpoty> not that ppl. will come and want a review alongside with an FF exception from motu-uvf
[11:25] <dholbach> Yeah - we definitely should make that clear.
[11:26] <ajmitch> the uvf team shouldn't need to look at the packaging itself
[11:26] <dholbach> Are there objections regarding that "worthwhile" might be too subjective?
[11:26] <sistpoty> fine with me
[11:26] <dholbach> (I personally think that it can be a problem in every approval process.)
[11:26] <ajmitch> no, I think we can leave it up to the uvf team to decie
[11:27] <ajmitch> s/decie/decide/
[11:27] <sistpoty> uvf-team will certainly find a way ;)
[11:27] <crimsun> right, I concur with delegating that to motu-uvf
[11:27] <gpocentek> fine with me as well
[11:27] <sistpoty> +1 here
[11:27] <dholbach> Ok, let's cast our votes for "Until Beta Freeze the motu-uvf team will consider NEW packages after they went through successful reviews and decide if they're worthwhile to have or not."
[11:28] <dholbach> +1 from me too
[11:28] <crimsun> +1
[11:28] <ajmitch> +1
[11:28] <gpocentek> +1
[11:28] <dholbach> that's a majority :)
[11:28] <dholbach> deciding on a 'hard freeze' for universe in the last week of the feisty cycle (ajmitch)
[11:28] <ajmitch> we did this for edgy, and very few people uploaded any fixes in the last week
[11:29] <dholbach> Mithrandir: Are you there? This might require your input.
[11:29] <ajmitch> this is where every universe upload needed to be ACKed
[11:30] <dholbach> as the release managers want to have somebody who ACKed the upload (somebody who's responsible for Universe), we maybe should think about broadening the UVF team to have no delays, but a direct ACK or NACK
[11:30] <sistpoty> yep, I remember dapper, where we crushed bugs until the final minute
[11:31] <ajmitch> the uvf team is going to be busy
[11:31] <cjwatson> one concern about very late uploads is that they can end up clogging up the buildds for urgent uploads to main. It's only a problem for big packages of course
[11:31] <dholbach> I don't know if we have the technical requirements (in soyuz) to lock main and to leave Universe/Multiverse just open
[11:31] <cjwatson> dholbach: no, although the archive team can fake that by manual work if necessary
[11:32] <cjwatson> (and we generally do during freezes)
[11:32] <dholbach> cjwatson: ok, thanks
[11:33] <dholbach> so we'll have to play along the hard freeze - what do you think about broadening the uvf team and probably making the process less strict, like "ping on IRC, point to debdiff, get ACK and tell release managers that it's ok"?
[11:34] <crimsun> I'm fine w/ expanding motu-uvf members
[11:34] <sistpoty> +1 here as well
[11:34] <crimsun> would it require a certain number of ACKs? unanimous?
[11:34] <ajmitch> unanimous would take too much
[11:34] <dholbach> I personally think that one should be enough
[11:34] <ajmitch> just 1
[11:34] <gpocentek>  /me agrees
[11:34] <crimsun> right, I concur
[11:35] <dholbach> what about keeping the hard freeze process light?
[11:35] <ajmitch> so stick with the freeze, but make it easy?
[11:35] <dholbach> or shall we do the file-a-bug-with-a-diffstat-and-diff--dance for that too?
[11:35] <ajmitch> no need to file a bug
[11:35] <gpocentek> I think IRC is fine
[11:35] <sistpoty> I'd prefer the easy model
[11:35] <ajmitch> since all uploads should be fixing a bug anyway
[11:36] <crimsun> URL to debdiff on IRC should suffice IMO
[11:36] <ajmitch> iirc crimsun attached the relevant changelog entry to bugs for edgy
[11:36] <ajmitch> which was a real help when I was asked whether to ACK/NAK
[11:36] <dholbach> Ok cool, I think we all agreed on that now.
[11:36] <ajmitch> how many more in motu-uvf?
[11:36] <ajmitch> 1 or 2?
[11:37] <dholbach> we're 3 atm
[11:37] <dholbach> 5 would be nice to have, I think
[11:37] <crimsun> +1 for expanding motu-uvf to 5
[11:37] <dholbach> +1 for 5 too
[11:38] <sistpoty> +-0... I'm happy with 4 or 5 equally
[11:38] <ajmitch> ok, +1 on keeping the freeze process as we said & +1 on motu-uvf to 5
[11:38] <gpocentek> +1 for 5
[11:38] <dholbach> anybody here who'd like to step up for the task?
[11:38] <crimsun> I'm happy to join motu-uvf for this cycle
[11:39] <dholbach> thanks crimsun, thanks ajmitch
[11:39] <dholbach> I'll add you to the team
[11:39] <crimsun> ok, thanks
[11:39] <ajmitch> k
[11:39] <dholbach> (thanks for keeping the voting process slim this time around)
[11:40] <dholbach> welcome to the team
[11:40] <dholbach> ok... "motu team cleanup"
[11:40] <sistpoty> everybode read the mail?
[11:40] <dholbach> the ubuntu-dev and motu teams clash a bit and references to the LP 'motu' team should be purged
[11:40] <ajmitch> yep
[11:41] <dholbach> imho it'd be better to have a universe-bugs team and make sure that LP sends universebugs to that team by default
[11:41] <ajmitch> this also relates to the issues with lp creating people on uploads
[11:41] <dholbach> (but that's not on the agenda for now)
[11:41] <dholbach> ajmitch: how so?
[11:41] <ajmitch> since<EMAIL_ADDRESS>is a registered address for motumedia
[11:41] <ajmitch> & we wanted it as a contact address, but not bug address, for motu :)
[11:41] <ajmitch> (rather impossible at the moment)
[11:42] <ajmitch> but I think reducing the number of teams would be good
[11:42] <dholbach> ok
[11:42] <Mithrandir> dholbach: universe is your domain, as you know.  I'd recommend on concentrating on bug-fixing and not new shiny, but for package splits and such, NEW processing will obviously need to happen.
[11:43] <Mithrandir> dholbach: note that the archive admins are not likely to have much time for source NEW at least in the later stages of the release.
[11:43] <dholbach> Mithrandir: right... thanks
[11:44] <dholbach> I'd propose to ask the LP folks to purge the 'motu' team and (in another step) get a 'universe-bugs' team and fix the bug routing that way.
[11:45] <ajmitch> mdz's suggestion was to keep motu, & empty out ubuntu-dev, I think
[11:45] <sistpoty> yep... ubuntu-dev would then be (only) core-dev + motu
[11:45] <ajmitch> making universe-bugs would be good
[11:46] <dholbach> I'm happy with that too - we'd just need to make TB the owner and un-administrator everybody, right?
[11:46] <Mithrandir> dholbach: "your" as in "you lot's", not you personally, naturally. :-)
[11:46] <Mithrandir> (sorry about that not being clear. ;-)
[11:47] <ajmitch> but he's the face of MOTU, of course it's his :)
[11:48] <ajmitch> dholbach: yep, I don't think anyone would need to be kicked out, just added
[11:48] <sistpoty> and the expiry dates set
[11:48] <dholbach> ok... so who's in favour of what?
[11:49] <ajmitch> +1 for turning motu over to TB, and adding universe-bugs
[11:49] <sistpoty> +1 here for ajmitch's proposal
[11:49] <dholbach> +1 from me too - although universe-bugs needs more discussion
[11:50] <gpocentek> +& for me as well
[11:50] <crimsun> in terms of work required, does it require less work to keep ubuntu-dev and drop motu?
[11:50] <gpocentek> +1 even
[11:50] <ajmitch> crimsun: it's mainly for clarity
[11:50] <ajmitch> but it would take less work to drop motu
[11:51] <dholbach> maybe it's also discoverability
[11:51] <crimsun> it makes more sense [to me]  to drop motu, keep ubuntu-dev, and consider universe-bugs
[11:52] <dholbach> To be honest, I can live with both proposals.
[11:52] <crimsun> that would prevent adding work to TB and also maintains the current structure (which seems to make sense [to me] )
[11:52] <sistpoty> well, I wouldn't want that someone creates motu after we dropped it tbh. though the whole discussion seems more of an aesthetical nature to me
[11:53] <sistpoty> who's in favor for dropping motu?
[11:54] <sistpoty> -1 from me, though only a very weak -1
[11:54] <crimsun> we should use the existing vote, I think: (+4 for purging ubuntu-dev and using motu)
[11:55] <sistpoty> ok, anyone volunteering to do the cleanup?
[11:55] <ajmitch> I don't think it should so long as the ubuntu-dev team still exists in a fashion
[11:56] <sistpoty> if nobody volunteers, I'll do some clicking later today ;)
[11:57] <sistpoty> ok
[11:57] <sistpoty> let's move on, shall we?
[11:57] <ajmitch> yep
[11:57] <crimsun> right.
[11:57] <ajmitch> I added the next item, but dholbach replied on the wiki saying it was already agreed on?
[11:58] <ajmitch> aha
[11:58] <ajmitch> for daniel..
[11:58] <ajmitch> I added the next item, but dholbach replied on the wiki saying it was already agreed on?
[11:58] <dholbach_> sorry, something grabbed my keyboard input and I couldn't type anything any more
[11:58] <ajmitch> np
[11:58] <dholbach_> we can go through the discussion again, but I recall a decision was made on the topic already.
[11:59] <Amaranth> dholbach: running compiz? :)
[12:00] <ajmitch> generally we'd know if someone was active, but what if they'd been idle for ~2 months?
[12:00] <ajmitch> I guess letting them expire is fine, as long as they know how to ask to reapply
[12:00] <dholbach> I propose we prod people every half a year (if they have not been sufficiently visible), and ask them. They can always re-apply.
[12:01] <dholbach> (and we should keep the hurdle low.)
[12:01] <dholbach> Amaranth: no
[12:01] <ajmitch> will the TB get notification of upcoming expirys?
[12:02] <sistpoty> I guess it might make sense to contact them first and ask if they plan to do some work in the future. maybe we can thus even reactivate lost motu's ;)
[12:02] <ajmitch> yeah
[12:02] <dholbach> I like that idea too.
[12:03] <dholbach> and in the same mail we should point out that it's no problem to be "deactivated" for a while, as it helps us to understand where we stand, and that it's also no problem to re-apply
[12:04] <gpocentek> this sounds good to me
[12:04] <ajmitch> ok
[12:04] <sistpoty> yep
[12:04] <crimsun> +1 for daniel's proposal
[12:04] <sistpoty> +1
[12:04] <dholbach> nice
[12:04] <dholbach> Ok, I volunteer to go through the list - who wants to assist me?
[12:05] <dholbach> ajmitch now has the new responsibility of the uvf team :)
[12:05] <dholbach> thanks gpocentek :)
[12:05] <gpocentek> :)
[12:05] <ajmitch> hehe ok
[12:05] <dholbach> next meeting
[12:05] <dholbach> sistpoty: did you mean the MOTU meeting or the MC meeting?
[12:06] <sistpoty> MOTU meeting
[12:06] <sabdfl> hi all
[12:06] <dholbach> heya sabdfl
[12:06] <sistpoty> hi sabdfl
[12:06] <dholbach> sabdfl: we're on the last agenda point already :)
[12:06] <sabdfl> just wanted to say well done and welcome aboard as a council
[12:07] <ajmitch> hi sabdfl
[12:07] <ajmitch> thanks
[12:07] <sistpoty> thx sabdfl
[12:07] <dholbach> thanks :)
[12:07] <dholbach> sistpoty: shouldn't we do that on the list?
[12:07] <dholbach> what about the next MC meeting - shall we try "every 2 weeks"?
[12:08] <ajmitch> well, we suggested every 3 weeks for a MOTU meeting
[12:08] <dholbach> ok maybe we should have a rolling rhythm - so we have a MOTU* meeting every 1,5 weeks
[12:09] <gpocentek> I'm already late... I'll read the logs when I'm back
[12:09] <ajmitch> gpocentek: ok, thanks for helping :)
[12:09] <dholbach> see you gpocentek - thanks for being with us in the meeting
[12:09] <sistpoty> cya gpocentek
[12:09] <crimsun> thanks gauvain
[12:10] <ajmitch> dholbach: sounds fair, the MotuProcessesSpec also says 3 weeks for MC
[12:10] <sistpoty> fine with me
[12:10] <ajmitch> I think we chose that because of a 3 week MOTU cycle
[12:10] <dholbach> that'd be Tuesday 6th of March for the next MOTU meeting if I counted correctly
[12:10] <ajmitch> yep
[12:10] <dholbach> any time suggestions?
[12:10] <dholbach> crimsun: maybe you suggest one this time :)
[12:11] <ajmitch> I think if we get it regularly on the calendar, it'll help
[12:11] <dholbach> I
[12:11] <sistpoty> maybe with rotating times?
[12:11] <crimsun> (waiting on Evolution...)
[12:11] <ajmitch> sistpoty: yep :)
[12:11] <dholbach> just try to decide on a time this time - we can see how it works out and then maybe decide on a rolling rhythm
[12:11] <ajmitch> sistpoty: so that you can have your 2AM meeting :)
[12:11] <sistpoty> hehe
[12:11] <dholbach> I'm happy to mail ubuntu-motu@ and fridge-devel@, once we decided.
[12:12] <Amaranth> this meeting started at 4am for me
[12:12] <dholbach> Amaranth: that's why I suggested for crimsun to pick the time :)
[12:12] <crimsun> how is 20:00 UTC?
[12:13] <dholbach> works for me
[12:13] <sistpoty> fine with me
[12:13] <dholbach> alrighty.... Mar, 6th, 20:00 UTC MOTU meeting
[12:13] <dholbach> thanks everybody for a very good first MOTU meeting
[12:14] <dholbach> MOTU Council meeting
[12:14] <ajmitch> well we still have 2 fixed items
[12:14] <ajmitch> I put the todo lists in the fixed item area, and agreeing on a MC meeting time
[12:15] <dholbach> Mar 16th would be 3 weeks from now on
[12:16] <dholbach> shall we make that 10:00 UTC again?
[12:16] <crimsun> sure
[12:16] <ajmitch> fine by me, crimsun?
[12:16] <crimsun> (I can manage 5 AM ok :)
[12:17] <sistpoty> well... middle of the night, but ok *g*
[12:17] <ajmitch> hah
[12:18] <ajmitch> seems that we have silent consensus, so TODO lists?
[12:18] <dholbach> Ok, agreed on that. Let's add some quick suggestions to the TODO list.
[12:18] <ajmitch> MOTU/TODO redirects currently
[12:18] <ajmitch> we want people to be doing bugfixing, laserjock gave some good suggestions
[12:19] <dholbach> we should have a separate page for that - what do you think?
[12:19] <sistpoty> yep
[12:19] <dholbach>  * review Universe/Multiverse bugs with patches attached (add link here)
[12:19] <dholbach>  * review Debian RC fixes
[12:20] <dholbach>  * look at UnmetDeps list (maybe file bugs again)
[12:20] <ajmitch> ah yes
[12:20] <dholbach> (* ask for rebuild test - ask for transitions that have not happened yet -> ubuntu-devel-discuss@)
[12:20] <sistpoty> * packagtes that FTBFS (list from lucas)
[12:21] <dholbach>  * generally fix universe/multiverse bugs
[12:21] <dholbach>  * tag bugs as 'bitesize' and 'packaging'
[12:22] <dholbach> that's all I can think of for now
[12:22] <dholbach> if you want, I'll set up that page now.
[12:22] <sistpoty> that would be great dholbach
[12:22] <ajmitch> thanks
[12:22] <dholbach> excellent
[12:23] <sistpoty> but now we're done :)
[12:23] <ajmitch> excellent :)
[12:23] <crimsun> thanks everyone!
[12:23] <dholbach> crimsun: can you send me the minutes before you send them off? I'd like to have a MOTU/Council/Meetings... page that quickly lists our decisions
[12:23] <sistpoty> thanks for the first meeting :)
[12:23] <crimsun> dholbach: already made that page
[12:24] <dholbach> crimsun: that way we could add the link to the wiki page and send the mail to the TB as well and fulfil our reporting duty
[12:24] <dholbach> WOW :)
[12:24] <ajmitch> maybe whoever gets to UDS can have a beer together ;)
[12:24] <dholbach> thanks guys
[12:24] <ajmitch> thanks daniel!
[11:56] <nixternal> @schedule chicago
[11:56] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 24 Feb 15:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 11:00: LoCo Team | 26 Feb 17:00: Community Council | 27 Feb 14:00: Technical Board | 28 Feb 12:00: Accessibility Team | 28 Feb 14:00: Edubuntu


[12:08] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:18] <RikMills> https://kde.org/announcements/plasma/5/5.24.7/
[13:18] <RikMills> https://kde.org/announcements/changelogs/plasma/5/5.24.6-5.24.7/
[13:18] <RikMills> arraybolt3[m]: ^^
[13:18] <RikMills> mmikowski: ^
[13:18] <RikMills> Eickmeyer[m]: ^
[13:19]  * RikMills builds
[13:20] <arraybolt3[m]> RikMills: Gonna get to that soon-ish.
[13:21] <arraybolt3[m]> Whew, looks like today's gonna be packed with testing. Lubuntu Final Freeze, Xubuntu Core, and Plasma 5.24.7. Here we go!
[13:21] <RikMills> building in ppa:kubuntu-ppa/plasma-staging
[13:21] <RikMills> just the packages with actual bugfixes
[13:21] <arraybolt3[m]> RikMills: Oh nice, I won't have to build it locally then. (I have a system for building stuff locally very easy, if you're ever interested.)
[13:22] <RikMills> I don't usually have trouble doing that, but PPAs are easier in several ways
[13:22] <arraybolt3[m]> https://github.com/ArrayBolt3/kforge
[13:22] <RikMills> with the kubuntu automation
[13:23] <RikMills> cheers. I will have a look sometime
[13:24]  * RikMills[m] kicks matrix
[13:24] <RikMills[m]> irc bridge is slow
[13:24] <arraybolt3> That's why I use both :)
[13:25] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh wow it is being slow :P
[13:25] <RikMills[m]> by minutes there 🙄
[16:49] <RikMills> arraybolt3[m]: Eickmeyer[m] mmikowski 5.24.7 packages are now in backports-landing if you wish to test
[16:50] <RikMills> as said. I only built the packages which had actual bugfix changes
[16:51] <Eickmeyer[m]> RikMills: Is there a reason for not all of 5.24.7?
[16:52] <RikMills> Eickmeyer[m]: why build things which are just tarballs respun with the version bumped?
[16:52] <RikMills> plus it makes it much easier to get through the SRU process
[16:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> I mean, fair, but another argument is for consistency. Just playing devil's advocate here. And yes, I totally get your point about the SRU process which, if it's just a version bump, really isn't that painful.
[16:56] <RikMills> I agreed with the SRU team to switch to this way as they were not impressed with doing the whole stack when not needed
[16:56] <RikMills> so unless there is some important reason to go back, "this is the way"
[16:58] <RikMills> anyway, at least for now, the bugfixes to be tested are all there
[16:59] <RikMills> which is the priority at this stage
[17:15] <Eickmeyer[m]> I see. I'm not too happy with those on the sru/foundations/release team lately (many members in common there) as they've been very anti-kde, so that's something that I'm spearheading some change on.
[17:32] <RikMills> well, with this I see the point and agree on it. there is no point doing no change rebuilds just to bump a version nummber
[18:08] <mmikowski> Thanks Rik. Absolutely.
[18:09] <Eickmeyer[m]> RikMills: To be clear, I agree.


 I will probably have some time to test new installer later this week, probably Thursday
 Not working at the moment if I understand correctly. Need some things stick in proposed and/or not yet uploaded to fix it (re @Rick_Timmis: I will probably have some time to test new installer later this week, probably Thursday)
 Not working at the moment if I understand correctly. Needs some things stuck in proposed and/or not yet uploaded to fix it (re @Rick_Timmis: I will probably have some time to test new installer later this week, probably Thursday)
 Ah Okey dokey thanks Rik


[04:00] <Juul_> hello
[04:07] <Juul_> i'm trying to install debian or ubuntu on a Sun Ultra 45
[04:08] <Juul_> my problem is that the usb keyboard doesn't work in the installer
[04:08] <Juul_> i get:
[04:08] <Juul_> FATAL: Module usbkbd not found.
[04:08] <Juul_> FATAL: Module usbhid not found.
[04:08] <Juul_> FATAL: Module usbserial not found.
[04:08] <Juul_> when booting
[04:08] <Juul_> any ideas?
[04:10] <Juul_> fabbione, goddag :)
[04:10] <Dvalin> hallis
[04:12] <fabbione> Hejsa
[04:12] <fabbione> Juul_: what version of Ubuntu are you trying?
[04:12] <fabbione> and no.. i have no idea about debian..
[04:13] <Juul_> ah, well i've only tried debian so far, it's taking a while to download the ubuntu image for some reason
[04:13] <fabbione> Juul_: well don't assume please because I am sure that this problem is not in ubuntu
[04:14] <fabbione> the usb stuff is in the installer since dapper
[04:14] <Juul_> oh, sorry to bug you then, i just saw a review of the install process where some other guy had the same output on ubuntu. http://drwetter.org/coolthreads/t2000.Ubuntu_vs_Solaris10_1.html
[04:16] <fabbione> well the t2000 doesn't have keyboard...
[04:16] <fabbione> neither it needs one
[04:16] <Juul_> ah
[04:16] <fabbione> also.. modules might have changed name between kernels
[04:16] <fabbione> and modprobing for both old and new can cause that kind of message
[04:16] <Juul_> ok
[05:32] <Juul_> hm, ubuntu edgy doesn't boot at all
[05:32] <Juul_> Booting Linux...
[05:32] <Juul_> Neither SBUS nor PCI found.
[05:32] <Juul_> Program terminated
[05:33] <Juul_> using http://releases.ubuntu.com/edgy/ubuntu-6.10-server-sparc.iso
[05:35] <Juul_> any other images i can try?
[05:35] <fabbione> dapper or feisty
[05:36] <Juul_> tried dapper. got a link for feisty for sparc?
[05:38] <Juul_> hm, found this --> http://ftp.sh.cvut.cz/MIRRORS/ubuntu-cdimage/feisty/herd-3/feisty-server-sparc.iso
[05:38] <Juul_> is that the latest?
[05:41] <fabbione> yes
[05:41] <fabbione> but it's a developer snapshot
[05:41] <fabbione> might work,, might now
[05:43] <Juul_> well if i get the same error again i'm just gonna do a debian install over a serial tty
[05:49] <fabbione> i don't think we ever had a test on U45
[05:49] <fabbione> so if it doesn't work, it would be good to get access to it for debugging
[05:50] <fabbione> Juul_: are you in copenhagen?
[05:51] <Juul_> fabbione, lyngby. DTU
[05:51] <fabbione> oh that's close enough.. i have my dentist there
[05:52] <fabbione> well worst case i can pop by to get info..
[05:52] <fabbione> and offer a beer :)
[05:52] <Juul_> fabbione, ok. you can stop by the g-bar support office in building 308
[05:53] <Juul_> monday or wednesday 10:00 to 15:00 (with a possible lunch break from 12 to 13)
[05:53] <Juul_> ask for povl ole
[05:53] <fabbione> Juul_: can you email me the info to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[05:54] <fabbione> Juul_: next week i will be in holidays.. and i am sure i will forget about the entire world by then :)
[05:55] <Juul_> ah
[05:57] <fabbione> Juul_: winter holidays for the winner :)
[05:57] <Juul_> fabbione, mail is sent
[05:57] <Juul_> hehe
[05:58] <Juul_> DTU already had its winter holiday
[05:58] <Juul_> hm
[05:58] <Juul_> feisty herd-3 didn't give me the same error, it just stopped after "Booting Linux..."
[05:59] <fabbione> Juul_: interesting.. can you try to boot again with forcepromconsole ?
[05:59] <fabbione> i wonder if the console on this machine is supporteed
[05:59] <fabbione> might be a new model
[06:00] <fabbione> Juul_: anyway i suggest you try the netboot before downloading tons of MB for an iso
[06:00] <fabbione> even if i know you have BW there
[06:00] <fabbione> and if it's a kernel issue, Debian won't make a diff
[06:02] <Juul_> the daily debian etch netboot image actually works fine except for the usb keyboard. so i should be able to install that over a serial console
[06:03] <Juul_> fabbione, how do i give it that parameter? just "boot: install forcepromconsole" ?
[06:04] <fabbione> one sec
[06:05] <Juul_> ah
[06:05] <Juul_> that actually got it to boot all the way into the installer
[06:05] <Juul_> but still no keyboard
[06:05] <fabbione> yes that way
[06:05] <fabbione> sorry my son was crying in the other room
[06:05] <Juul_> i'm not in any hurry
[06:06] <Juul_> so now we're as far as we were with debian
[06:06] <fabbione> Juul_: ok.. then 2 problems. it means that the console is not directly supported by the kernel and there might be a new chipset for USB that's not recognized
[06:06] <Juul_> ah
[06:06] <fabbione> debian works around the console issue, forcing the OBP console by default that on a serial console is slow to death
[06:07] <fabbione> we offer it as option
[06:07] <Juul_> ok
[06:07] <Juul_> it is insanely slow
[06:07] <fabbione> now.. what i would do is to plug a console cable
[06:07] <fabbione> serial
[06:07] <Juul_> yeah
[06:07] <fabbione> get an lspci and prtconf out of it
[06:07] <Juul_> we've been up all night so we'll do that tomorrow
[06:07] <fabbione> prtconf -pv or -pf i can never remember
[06:08] <fabbione> anyway it's an insane long outout
[06:08] <fabbione> and for the sake of your sanity do this:
[06:08] <Juul_> ok
[06:08] <fabbione> boot: install forcepromconsole modules=network-console
[06:08] <fabbione> so you will see serial console and as soon as possible the installer will provide you with ssh access to the machine
[06:08] <Juul_> ooh
[06:08] <Juul_> cool
[06:08] <fabbione> (assuming there is network, etc)
[06:09] <fabbione> that way you can collect info in a slightly easier way than copy/paste
[06:09] <fabbione> send them to me via email once you get there
[06:10] <Juul_> sure thing
[06:12] <fabbione> this might even spare me the travel over there :)