[00:03] <thomi> RAOF: maybe. Unity has binary deps on lots of other things though, so you often can't release libdee (for example), unless you release the rest of the stack at the same time
[00:03] <RAOF> Oh, that totally makes sense.
[01:48] <robert_ancell> RAOF, do you know who I can talk to about lightdm still being in proposed? The one in main has a serious bug
[01:49] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Probably most people in #ubuntu-release?
[01:49] <robert_ancell> RAOF, ta
[01:49] <RAOF> I'd expect a random archive admin to know.
[01:52] <mlankhorst> RAOF: oh btw can lts-raring and mesa in raring be promoted to -updates? :P
[02:12] <duflu> robert_ancell: Could you do me a favour?
[02:13] <robert_ancell> duflu, sure
[02:13] <duflu> robert_ancell: Change the "development focus" to 0.9.11 on https://launchpad.net/compiz
[02:13] <duflu> ?
[02:13] <robert_ancell> duflu, done
[02:14] <duflu> robert_ancell: Thanks
[02:17] <Sarvatt> mlankhorst: that was extra annoying, finding out it was in -proposed after recommending it to people instead of edgers :)
[02:18] <Sarvatt> mlankhorst: but infinity was talking about making daily builds work so "any day now"
[04:32] <olli> RAOF, hey
[04:32] <RAOF> olli: Yo!
[04:32] <olli> just wanted to say thanks for proposing all the patches over the weekend
[04:32] <olli> :)
[04:33] <olli> seems like the intel one got the most traction so far
[04:34] <RAOF> Well, the most reaction at least :)
[04:37] <olli> RAOF, true
[04:38] <olli> so, it seems like we have missed all major upstream releases (at least Mesa and X iirc)
[04:38] <olli> not sure if "missed" is the right term
[04:39]  * duflu wanders off to lunch
[04:39] <olli> enjoy duflu
[04:39] <olli> RAOF, how will we ship these in 13.10 then?
[04:39] <RAOF> By patching?
[04:39] <RAOF> Same way we did XI2-multitouch?
[04:41] <olli> heh, the amount of "?" indicates I was asking a stupid question ;)
[04:41] <olli> will you have to maintain 2 versions of the patches then, one for Mesa/X/... at 13.10 and one for the respective latest version
[04:41] <olli> will that be a big delta, if at all?
[04:48] <RAOF> Depends on how things change underneath.
[04:49] <RAOF> The patch as-of 13.10 though probably won't need _too_ much support that isn't simple backporting.
[05:22] <tvoss> RAOF, ping
[05:22] <RAOF> tvoss: Yo.
[05:22] <tvoss> RAOF, good morning :) got some time in your voip lair?
[05:22] <RAOF> Sure.
[05:23] <RAOF> My new, improved, VoIP lair!
[05:25] <tvoss> RAOF, \o/ let me grab coffee
[05:27] <tvoss> RAOF, can you open a hangout and add me to it, would like to join on the ipad
[05:43] <didrocks> kgunn: just to reash, I'm not thrilled to drop 50% of our testing, and just having one machine with "a workaround" to get Mir starting
[05:43] <didrocks> rehash
[05:44] <didrocks> RAOF: hey, you confirm that the ati issue isn't due to lxc, but a real issue, right?
[05:45] <RAOF> didrocks: Yeah, looked like it.
[05:45] <didrocks> RAOF: if you need access to the machine, we can provide you that
[05:46]  * didrocks is seeing that we diminish more and more on Mir quality side "just" to ship in universe
[06:49] <tvoss_> didrocks, how many machines can we provision in the lab to start mir?
[06:50] <didrocks> tvoss_: 2 right now
[06:50] <tvoss_> didrocks, why not more? it is my understanding that we have 2 ati, 2 intel and 2 nvidia machines
[06:50] <didrocks> tvoss_: we have that since yesterday
[06:50] <tvoss_> didrocks, what gpu is running in the two machines?
[06:50] <didrocks> tvoss_: we just need to provision the nvidia
[06:50] <didrocks> one intel, one ati
[06:51] <didrocks> tvoss_: the 3 others are for raring
[06:51] <tvoss_> didrocks, why do we need them for raring?
[06:51] <didrocks> tvoss_: because we support our users?
[06:51] <didrocks> so we do have SRUs everyday
[06:51] <tvoss_> didrocks, sure, but I thought we could just reprovision them with a different Ubuntu version?
[06:51] <didrocks> tvoss_: no, we need kernel == container
[06:52] <didrocks> tvoss_: the machines are the same anyway, between the ati, intel and nvidia FYI
[06:52] <tvoss_> didrocks, okay, I was told some time back that we have he/le ati, he/le nvidia, he/le intel
[06:52] <didrocks> maybe you are not mentionning the same machines then
[06:52] <didrocks> because the 3 others arrived this week
[06:53] <didrocks> and we only have 3 until then
[06:53] <tvoss_> didrocks, that might well be
[06:53] <tvoss_> didrocks, so which machine is causing issues? the ati one?
[06:53] <didrocks> yep
[06:53] <tvoss_> didrocks, intel and nvidia come up cleanly?
[06:53] <didrocks> tvoss_: well, nvidia is on raring (one of the 3 we had)
[06:53] <didrocks> we need to wire up the other one
[06:53] <didrocks> on intel, it was failing as well
[06:53] <didrocks> and we needed my workaround
[06:53] <didrocks> the sleep :/
[06:54] <didrocks> I got a "we never see it"
[06:54] <didrocks> then, when I gave the description, starting to see devs telling they saw it
[06:54] <didrocks> and "just" reboot :/
[06:54] <didrocks> we need to change that behavior
[06:54] <tvoss_> didrocks, as far as I know we do not see those issues in the cert lab
[06:55] <didrocks> tvoss_: so, we are inventing the issues?
[06:55] <didrocks> "not seen here" -> then, when opening "oh btw, I saw it some times"
[06:55] <didrocks> regular rules
[06:55] <tvoss_> didrocks, of course not, I'm just trying to track down the issue
[06:55] <tvoss_> didrocks, can I get access to the ati machine?
[06:56] <didrocks> tvoss_: see the bug report, RAOF already dived to it
[06:56] <didrocks> tvoss_: yeah, once daily are finished, I can give you access
[06:56] <tvoss_> didrocks, ack, can you paste the bugreport again?
[06:56] <tvoss_> didrocks, my backlog is a bit fucked up after numerous reboots
[06:56] <didrocks> tvoss_: bug #1203070
[06:57] <didrocks> Chris told: "it's failed to create the hw cursor buffer, and I don't believe that there are any more relevant logs
[06:57] <didrocks> available."
[07:00] <tvoss_> mlankhorst, ping
[07:04] <mlankhorst> pong!
[07:08] <tvoss_> mlankhorst, hey there :) we are trying to solve an issue with Mir failing to create a hardware cursor buffer on ati.
[07:08] <tvoss_> mlankhorst, I wonder if you are aware of any known ati issue in that area?
[07:09] <mlankhorst> erm cursor usually has special requirements for buffer
[07:30] <tvoss_> mlankhorst, okay, the call succeeds in general, we only have an issue on one specific card. Is there any way to get something like a last error from gbm?
[07:31] <mlankhorst> use the debugger(TM)
[07:32] <tvoss_> mlankhorst, woot, thanks for the enlightenment ;)
[07:32] <mlankhorst> it's what it's for :P
[08:05] <duflu> alf__: How do you guarantee that only one compositor buffer is consumed per 16ms in the multimonitor stuff? Is it still partial releases?
[08:07] <duflu> ... or yet to be figured out?
[08:09] <alf__> duflu: there is no guarantee for that atm
[08:10] <duflu> alf__: OK, I thought I might be too early. When you have an idea, please let me know
[08:10] <alf__> duflu: hmm, sorry, there is a partial guarantee
[08:11] <duflu> alf__: Saved resources?
[08:13] <duflu> alf__: I would suggest enforcing that compositor_acquire only happens for real on one monitor (which must also have the highest refresh rate of all monitors)
[08:13] <duflu> Probably #0. And recycle till that monitor refreshes again
[08:15] <alf__> duflu: about partial release... essentially the first release of a buffer marks its end as a preferred buffer for next acquisitions. Since under normal operation this happens once per ~16ms, the consumed once per 16ms is enforced.
[08:15] <alf__> duflu: (more or less)
[08:15] <duflu> alf__: I know but that won't be true under bypass, so I'm hunting for a more robust guarantee
[08:16] <duflu> Under bypass, two compositors are held and one consumed, per 16ms
[08:19] <alf__> duflu: Couldn't we just have a differently constructed BufferStream for bypass, that doesn't enforce the MultiAcquisition policies?
[08:21] <duflu> alf__: Yes. However I suspect that will cause the client to get buffers at Nmonitors*60Hz
[08:21] <duflu> Which is fine for me with one monitor right now. Not fine for working with multimonitor
[08:23] <RAOF> Dear POSIX: signals are hateful, and
[08:23] <RAOF> I hate you.
[08:24] <hikiko> hi
[08:24] <hikiko> question
[08:25] <duflu> alf__... So before it becomes a problem I would like to see some more explicit distinction between buffer recycling and guaranteed buffer advancement
[08:25] <alf__> duflu: I haven't really thought about this yet, but perhaps using a combination of a different back buffer strategy in BufferStream plus a different CompositingStrategy (note, renamed to DisplayBufferCompositor in proposed MP), which we need anyway, perhaps we could reach the needed behavior. Hopefully we won't need to have a single behavior that works for both normal and bypass, if that means making compromises for both.
[08:25] <hikiko> alf__, I tried to use the mir buffers as you said but I am not sure if you can fill the ipc package using those buffers
[08:28] <alf__> hikiko: what method are you referring to?
[08:28] <hikiko> fill_ipc_package in platform alf__
[08:29] <alf__> hikiko: well, the plan is to relay this request to the native platform to do this for you
[08:32] <RAOF> Who thought that having read() able to return EINTR at any point and *partially* consume the buffer was a good idea? >:(
[08:32] <duflu> RAOF: Before threads were invented/common...
[08:33] <duflu> Though arguably, retrying I/O is less error prone than expecting programmers to do threads reliably
[08:33] <RAOF> And who didn't want to make libc go to the effort to *not* consume the buffer in that case?
[08:33] <RAOF> Yeah, but you can't retry IO. You need to keep track of how much was actually read, and then try to read the rest.
[08:34] <RAOF> Because *that's* totally not going to be done badly, and couldn't be sensibly implemented in the goddamned system library.
[08:34] <hikiko> I don't create a native and a nested platform at the same time alf__ either native or nested
[08:38] <RAOF> Not that this is *necessarily* the cause of output delay, just that I hate noticing things that are going to explode when a SIGIO comes in at an inopportune time.
[08:38] <alf__> hikiko: the nested platform should create and use an instance of a specially configured native platform, see second paragraph of mir-on-mir mir-devel email reply
[08:39] <hikiko> ok
[08:40] <hikiko> I forgot to re-add this :p
[08:40] <hikiko> sorry :)
[08:40] <deathcrawler> Current Ubuntu Phone images uses Mir directly?
[08:44] <mlankhorst> RAOF: sigh
[08:44] <mlankhorst> I'm getting reports about mir now..
[08:44] <mlankhorst> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/1201028
[08:45] <RAOF> mlankhorst: I don't know what you're talking about officer. Mir couldn't cause *any* problems at all. See, we've corraled him in a PPA where he's kept safe from the masses!
[08:46] <mlankhorst> the bugs get filed against xorg-server though, what should I do with them?
[08:47] <mlankhorst> I just want them not be against xorg-server for now, i don't care if I close it as invalid or reassign to mir :P
[08:47] <duflu> That's odd. There should be no automatic reports when users (like that one) are using a PPA
[08:48] <RAOF> mlankhorst: Feel to reassign to the xmir project. duflu set that one up :)
[08:49] <mlankhorst> link?
[08:49]  * duflu assigned it
[08:49] <duflu> mlankhorst: Launchpad project "xmir"
[08:49] <mlankhorst> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server?field.searchtext=mir&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=
[08:51] <mlankhorst> but I'll reassign all then
[08:54] <duflu> Oh, I was reassigning. But OK
[09:02] <alf__> deathcrawler: not yet (it still uses surfaceflinger) but we are getting close to switching
[09:20] <tvoss_> RAOF, disabling sigio event reporting in X is great, works fine here ;)
[09:47] <deathcrawler> alf__: Thanks
[10:42] <duflu> Oh dear. My diff is now over 4kloc to trunk. This is a worry
[10:57] <RAOF> tvoss_: Oh, disabling sigio events avoids the bug?
[10:57] <tvoss_> RAOF, nope
[12:17] <tvoss_> didrocks, alf__ https://code.launchpad.net/~thomas-voss/mir/fix_process_waitpid_approach_to_correctly_setup_tracing/+merge/176367
[12:18] <alf__> tvoss_: looking
[12:27] <alf__> tvoss_: what does the waitpid (pid, NULL, 0) call do after PTRACE_ATTACH?
[12:28] <tvoss_> alf__, it waits for the child process to be stopped as a result to the parent attaching. that should help us avoid a lot of races
[12:33] <ogra_> LOL
[12:33] <ogra_> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/support-ubuntu-edge-enthusiast
[12:33] <ogra_> awesome
[12:34] <ogra_> oops, i'm not in -touch, sorry
[12:34] <tvoss_> ogra_, still great :)
[12:36] <alf__> tvoss_: is this because of  WUNTRACED   also  return  if  a  child has stopped (but not traced via ptrace(2)).  Status for
[12:36] <alf__>                    traced children which have stopped is provided even if this option is  not  speci‐
[12:36] <alf__>                    fied.
[12:37] <tvoss_> alf__, yes, partly and PTRACE_ATTACH really is what we want to do here
[12:40] <alf__> tvoss_: I guess my question is what guarantees that we have that waitpid(..., 0) is notified about the stopped child (normally waitpid() only gets termination events).
[12:41] <tvoss_> alf__, that's the usual flow of ptrace_attach and then waitpid
[12:42] <alf__> tvoss_: ok, I am not familiar with it, and the manpages are not very clear, but if it works then great :)
[12:42] <tvoss_> alf__, tests pass and I haven't seen any flakyness locally
[13:54] <mlankhorst> oh darn, I had the mir ppa enabled still..
[13:57] <mlankhorst> might have been why my nv50 was still not working after fixing all the card bugs :>
[14:10] <kgunn> mlankhorst: are you free to help with ati debug wrt this "unable to provision hw cursor" ?...we have a QA machine on which this is consistently failing 100%, didrocks can help provide access
[14:10] <kgunn> its blocking mir entering universe
[14:11] <kgunn> robotfuel: ^ let's see if mlankhorst can help
[14:15] <mlankhorst> kgunn: sure ;P
[14:15] <mlankhorst> what kind of hw btw
[14:16] <hikiko> question: do we have an env variable for the platform already? I'd like to see if my native platform is gbm or android at runtime without ifdef and maybe getenv is an option..
[14:17] <kgunn> mlankhorst: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1203070
[14:17] <kgunn> "cedar"
[14:19] <kgunn> tvoss_: ^
[14:19] <tvoss_> kgunn, yup
[14:28] <mlankhorst> mmm lets see
[14:30] <mlankhorst> kgunn: that's only starting with unity-system-compositor from ppa:mir-team/unity-system-compositor right?
[14:32] <kgunn> mlankhorst: well, this may be a didrocks build, via his daily ppa (not necessarily exactly system-compositor-testing)
[14:32] <mlankhorst> mm lets try anyway..
[14:32] <didrocks> kgunn: mlankhorst: to ensure to run the same version, use those from ppa:ubuntu-unity/daily-build-next
[14:34] <mlankhorst> ok, upgrading
[14:35] <tvoss_> mzanetti, ping
[14:35] <mzanetti> tvoss_: pong
[14:35] <tvoss_> mzanetti, soemthing weird going on here: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/mir-android-saucy-i386-build/1415/console
[14:36] <mzanetti> tvoss_: hmm... seems to be the same as last time
[14:36] <mzanetti> tvoss_: I wonder why this is build on ps-android-sandybridge. That seems wrong
[14:36] <mzanetti> tvoss_: as that's the machine where the devices for testing are attached
[14:40] <mzanetti> tvoss_: yeah. this definitely seems wrong to me. who sets up Mir jobs usually?
[14:41] <kgunn> hikiko: should be easy to add...i would think you could check if gralloc is present
[14:42] <tvoss_> mzanetti, same happens for clang: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/mir-clang-saucy-amd64-build/1300/console
[14:43] <tvoss_> mzanetti, not sure, thomi perhaps?
[14:43] <tvoss_> alf__, ^ can you help here?
[14:43] <mzanetti> tvoss_: hmm... not sure why the one on kinnara fails. that should work.
[14:44] <mzanetti> tvoss_: I contacted fginther. he's in a phone call right now. when he's free again we'll try to resolve it asap
[14:44] <hikiko> yes I've added kgunn I just wonder if we already used one because I couldn't find any
[14:44] <alf__> hikiko: why do you need to get the native platform type?
[14:44] <hikiko> because my nested platform has a pointer to the native platform in order to call native functions when necessary
[14:45] <hikiko> and I have to initialize that pointer to a new GBM or a new Android platform
[14:45] <hikiko> (the pointer is mg::Platform)
[14:45] <tvoss_> hikiko, I thought the idea is that the nested platform does not need to know those details?
[14:46] <hikiko> it won't know
[14:46] <hikiko> then it will use the mg::Platform functions
[14:47] <hikiko> but at some point I have to initialize the mg::Platform
[14:47] <tvoss_> hikiko, isn't it like auto platform = mg::NestedPlatform()?
[14:47] <alf__> hikiko: you can do it that the same way we get the platform currently, by exposing a symbol in the native platform library (e.g. create_native_platform_nested(...))
[14:48] <hikiko> I call create_platform_nested() :s
[14:48] <hikiko> but even the current create_platform
[14:48] <hikiko> returns a GBMPlatform in GBM case
[14:48] <hikiko> and an Android in case of android
[14:49] <hikiko>     return std::make_shared<mgg::GBMPlatform>(report, vt);
[14:49] <hikiko> you specify that your pointer is mgg::GBMPlatform
[14:50] <mlankhorst> kgunn: hm tons of fun spam in dmesg......
[14:50] <alf__> hikiko: Isn't that what you need? The native platform knows what to do when you call create_native_platform_*(...). It creates an appropriate mg::Platform pointer and sends it back to you.
[14:50] <mlankhorst> kgunn: http://paste.debian.net/18047/
[14:50] <mlankhorst> though no idea why....
[14:51] <hikiko> yes but in create_platform* you specify what type of platform this is
[14:51] <hikiko> you can't have a mg::Platform pointer without initialize it with new GBM or new Android
[14:51] <kgunn> mlankhorst: do we need to contact radeon guys?
[14:51] <mlankhorst> but I guess that's what causes your issue here
[14:51] <hikiko> you either have to do ifdef "GBM"...
[14:51] <mlankhorst> kgunn: I think so..
[14:51] <hikiko> or get the platform at runtime
[14:51] <hikiko> using getenv for example
[14:52] <kgunn> mlankhorst: do you have a contact ? (i'm supposing you already have :)
[14:52] <mlankhorst> kgunn: that was with drm-next + drm-fixes of today :P
[14:52] <hikiko> create_platform returns a different pointer in gbm and in android case
[14:52] <mlankhorst> I guess #radeon would work, brb buying some food
[14:52] <kgunn> ta
[14:53] <alf__> hikiko: that's what create_native_platform_nested() will do also, no difference in the mechanism, just in the way the native platform is set up internally
[14:53] <mlankhorst> that was a merge of drm-next + drm-fixes, dno how representive that is :P
[14:53] <mlankhorst> hm i should probably try with a cleaner kernel later just in case
[14:53] <hikiko> alf__, I am talking about the create_platform_nested implementation
[14:53] <hikiko> mmm
[14:54] <hikiko> I mean that
[14:54] <hikiko> even if create_native_platform_mnested
[14:54] <hikiko> lives in GBMPlatform
[14:54] <hikiko> it has to return a GBMPlatform pointer
[14:54] <hikiko> ah :) sec
[14:56] <hikiko> lol ok :) mg::Platform lala = create_native... yeah... got it... :P
[14:56] <hikiko> <-tired :p ok, ignore :)
[14:57] <hikiko> thanx!
[14:57] <hikiko> I wrote the func and forgot to use it 2 times today :p
[15:05] <tvoss_> greyback, ping
[15:05] <greyback> tvoss_: pong
[15:27] <mlankhorst> kgunn: ugh, was lacking pm firmware
[15:28] <kgunn> mlankhorst: pm == power management ?? (e.g. pmic )
[15:28] <mlankhorst> yeah
[15:28] <kgunn> mlankhorst: oh...yeah...so hw mouse would be like one of the first hw accelerators i suppose
[15:28] <kgunn> in terms of sw trying to use it
[15:29] <mlankhorst> indeed
[15:29] <mlankhorst> so I guess you should check dmesg, just in case
[15:30] <kgunn> mlankhorst: so, where does that lie in the field of responsibility ?....is that a ubuntu saucy foundational problem ?...or?
[15:30] <mlankhorst> kgunn: heck check dmesg on that machine, then you know for sure
[15:30] <kgunn> mlankhorst: mmm, but X worked ?
[15:31] <kgunn> gotta run
[15:31] <mlankhorst> x can fallback to unaccelerated
[15:31] <kgunn> brb
[15:52] <kgunn> mlankhorst: ok...back, so "we" mir team need to add in fallback for sw cursor for xmir/radeon ?
[16:00] <kgunn> bschaefer is this something you could look pre-australian time ? ^
[16:00] <kgunn> didrocks can give bschaefer access to machine if needed
[16:01] <bschaefer> kgunn, whats going on? The sw cursor thing?
[16:01] <kgunn> bschaefer: yeah
[16:01] <kgunn> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1203070
[16:01] <kgunn> basically we know the problem....we need to create a solution & test it
[16:03] <bschaefer> kgunn, possibly, i've a few other things ive to work on :)
[16:03] <didrocks> kgunn: sure, tell me once you need the access so that I can prepare
[16:03] <kgunn> bschaefer: no prob...if you're helping robotfuel keep doing that
[16:03] <kgunn> no pointing in switching just for the sake of it
[16:03] <bschaefer> kgunn, no, i do unity-maintenance under bregma and i've some new ibus changes I need to get landed
[16:03] <kgunn> greyback: curious...you said unity8 now (w/ some caveats/bugs) runs on mir....do the instructions on the wiki need to change ?
[16:04] <kgunn> or does it all just magically stay relevant ?
[16:04] <bschaefer> kgunn, if I can finish that up quickly I could possibly take a look :)
[16:04] <greyback> kgunn: which instructions? Let me check through them
[16:04] <kgunn> bschaefer: ah...ibus...yeah...kinda critical :)
[16:04] <kgunn> greyback: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Testing/Mir
[16:05] <bschaefer> kgunn, yeah, as some would like the new version landed, but that SW fallback cursor is also critcal!
[16:05] <greyback> kgunn: hmm, so that URL to s-jenkins is an internal url only, so no community people will be able to use it.
[16:06]  * bschaefer goes to work fast
[16:06] <greyback> kgunn: other bits could be updated, yes. I'll add it to my list
[16:06] <kgunn> greyback: doh...good point
[16:06] <kgunn> np...in due time
[16:06] <greyback> kgunn: ack
[16:08] <kgunn> greyback: crap...can you shoot me the link to your sketchpad of "todo's" closed it before saving link
[16:09] <greyback> kgunn: sure: http://studio.sketchpad.cc/UFFAX8fxc2
[16:10] <kgunn> greyback: one more interrupt, does "Use actual surfaces instead of screenshots for window management" actually address my "cut corners" blueprint ?
[16:12] <greyback> kgunn: I don't think so. That proposal is for shell to animate the actual application surface, not a screenshot of the application (as we're doing right now)
[16:12] <greyback> kgunn: nothing to do with single-surfac shell
[16:14] <kgunn> greyback: got it...texture source for the single surf...not actual compositing...
[16:29] <kgunn> didrocks: can you paste the dmesg output from the ati-trouble machine into the bug ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1203070
[16:31] <tvoss_> mlankhorst, ping
[16:38] <didrocks> kgunn: I just pasted the relevant time log: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1203070/comments/5
[16:38] <didrocks> (the lightdm segfault)
[16:40] <kgunn> didrocks: ??....lankhorst indicated the pm firmware not being installed as the reason for hw mouse failing....this is somewhere after that
[16:41] <mlankhorst> kgunn: pong, might be related, maybe not
[16:41] <didrocks> kgunn: I don't see any logs for it, does he know what we should install? (even on the image by default)
[16:41] <mlankhorst> can i start unity-system-compoistor alone
[16:41] <didrocks> mlankhorst: it seems lightdm is setting up an environment for it
[16:41] <didrocks> so stopping/start lightdm
[16:42] <mlankhorst> without lightdmm...
[16:42] <didrocks> would be a question for kgunn and robert_ancell I guess :)
[16:42] <kgunn> mlankhorst: sure.. (in xmir config i assume you mean)
[16:43] <kgunn> which should just kick of mir
[16:43] <kgunn> tvoss_: ^ sanity
[16:43] <kgunn> but obvioulsy...no mir clients (as xmir has failed by that point)
[16:44] <tvoss_> kgunn, ENOCONTEXT
[16:46] <kgunn> tvoss_: could one, after a failure to boot in xmir, kick off the u-s-c process manually
[16:46] <tvoss_> kgunn, hmmm, no, you need lightdm and the env for that ...
[16:48] <kgunn> tvoss_: is the need for lightdm because we cannot have a "clientless" mir ?
[16:48]  * didrocks wasn't on crack then :)
[16:48] <tvoss_> kgunn, of course not, it's because the usc needs t obe passed some file descriptors
[16:48] <tvoss_> kgunn, and a vt to operate upon
[16:49] <kgunn> tvoss_: ack
[16:49]  * kgunn was insane...
[16:52] <mlankhorst> gone
[18:15] <bschaefer> kgunn, ping
[18:21] <kgunn> bschaefer: yo
[18:21] <bschaefer> kgunn, hey, so ive some time now, but I don't have an ATI card :(
[18:21] <bschaefer> i've a large desktop I can install ubuntu on but it'll take a bit of time
[18:22] <kgunn> bschaefer: yeah....it'd be best to get access to didrocks machine
[18:22] <kgunn> but he's not on
[18:22] <kgunn> at least for the moment
[18:22] <bschaefer> dang and now hes gone...
[18:22] <bschaefer> kgunn, well I should have mentioned this acouple hours ago :)
[18:22] <kgunn> he might show back up
[18:23] <bschaefer> yeah, Ill try poking some QA people in the meantime
[18:23] <kgunn> cool
[18:24] <kgunn> tvoss_: robotfuel: do you know if there is someone else who might be able to provide us access besides didrocks to the ati machine failing to boot ??
[18:25] <tvoss_> kgunn, not sure, sil2100 might be able to help
[18:25] <robotfuel> I don't have access to the ati machine yet, jibel might?
[18:25] <robotfuel> kgunn: ^
[18:29] <kgunn> jibel: could you help us ?
[18:30] <bschaefer> kgunn, I think I found one
[18:31] <kgunn> sweet!
[18:31] <kgunn> bschaefer: i'm gonna break for lunch...
[18:31] <bschaefer> kgunn, cool, enjoy your lunch!
[18:50] <tvoss_> xjunior, hey there :)
[18:50] <tvoss_> xjunior, still busy debugging
[18:51] <xjunior> tvoss_: nice man :) good luck with that!!
[18:51] <xjunior> I believe it's a hard piece of code to debug
[18:51] <bschaefer> kgunn, yup, got access to a ati machine, thanks for the suggestion :)
[18:51] <tvoss_> xjunior, it is, raof is looking into it, too
[18:51] <xjunior> fortunately it's not Xorg :P
[18:52] <xjunior> I still can't get into Xorg, btw. I believe it's a intel driver issue. It's crashing and I remember it was updated a few days ago
[18:52] <tvoss_> xjunior, did you pin the ppa?
[18:53] <xjunior> yeap
[18:54] <bschaefer> xjunior, something like this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xmir/+bug/1203776
[18:54] <tvoss_> xjunior, just to make sure: you have got the system-compositor-testing ppa?
[18:54]  * bschaefer was getting an intel crash on normal X as well this morning
[19:05] <racarr> I am trying to process the scene graph discussion email
[19:05] <xjunior> tvoss_: yea yeah, absolutely
[19:05] <xjunior> I guess that's what's happening to me :)
[19:06] <racarr> and I think what Alan is describing, and what I've started to see we need through some of the pain in resolving races like in session-transactions
[19:06] <racarr> is not actually a scene graph in...any particular sense
[19:07] <racarr> one of it's responsibilities (it's interface to the compositor) coincides with some of the responsibility of a scene graph
[19:07] <xjunior> That's exactly the situation I have here, tvoss_. I +1'd that bug
[19:07] <tvoss_> xjunior, thx
[19:08] <racarr> but it contains assosciations like session->surface, etc, which aren't actually 'scene' assosciations
[19:08] <racarr> I guess I feel like the problem we are trying to solve, is that we have dataa and state distributed over the system so we want to integrate it in to a single multi index store
[19:09] <racarr> and not
[19:09] <racarr> we need a "scene graph"
[19:10] <racarr> *trails off in to mumbling*
[19:10] <racarr> I am just thinking outloud :)
[19:14] <bschaefer> racarr, so your trying to come up with a data structure that can store all of the session/surfaces while having random access while having some sort of graph structure?
[19:14]  * bschaefer could have read that wrong
[19:16]  * bschaefer looks up scene graph...
[19:16] <bschaefer> which looks just like a B-Tree
[19:18] <bschaefer> but a bit crazier...
[19:19] <racarr> bschaefer: Hmm, thats probably part of the data structure. but I think finding a data structure once we know exactly what we need wont be so bad
[19:20] <racarr> I guess to me the thing is, state is distributed all over the system
[19:20] <racarr> i.e. the input state is held in some data structure that basically builds an input view of the surface stack
[19:20] <bschaefer> right, reading scene graph wiki was kind of funny: The definition of a scene graph is fuzzy
[19:21] <racarr> the shell bit with the session assosciation, and shell state lives in the shell, and acts as sort of another view/controller to the surface stack
[19:21] <bschaefer> isn't input in a different thread as well?
[19:21] <racarr> likewise, the compositor gets a view of the surface stack, and treats it like a scene graph
[19:21] <racarr> Right
[19:21] <racarr> so with all the state in different bits
[19:21] <racarr> synchronization gets
[19:21] <racarr> increasingly difficult
[19:21] <bschaefer> geez, thats going to be hard to get that all sync...
[19:21] <bschaefer> yeah
[19:21] <racarr> and, another thing is pretty much all state
[19:21] <racarr> changing in mir
[19:22] <racarr> needs to support some pattern like
[19:22] <racarr> notify the shell of this and potentially allow it to interfere, etc.
[19:22] <racarr> and without one authoratative source of...what is what when
[19:22] <racarr> this becomes kind of difficult and we've ended up with this weird pattern where the shell will do things like subclass one of our factory objects
[19:22] <bschaefer> you'll get lost...and out of order :(
[19:22] <racarr> and interfere and then call up to the base class
[19:23] <racarr> yeah
[19:24] <racarr> so that's what I am thinking about :p
[19:24] <bschaefer> that is an interesting problem to solve...
[19:24] <racarr> and we have always called this a scene graph, because at a very high level
[19:25] <racarr> a bunch of components manipulate it, then the compositor visits it to render the scene
[19:25] <racarr> well, at one very high level XD
[19:25] <bschaefer> yeah, that sounds like a fun problem that almost seems like it needs to be broken down a bit haha
[19:25] <racarr> but I think, "scene graph" doesn't actually capture the problem we are trying to solve
[19:25] <racarr> yeah
[19:26] <tvoss_> racarr, what you are describing is the mvc, isn't it?
[19:26] <bschaefer> well, i don't a single data structure can capture that...scene graph is pretty high level thats just a bunch of other graphs/trees
[19:27] <bschaefer> s/dont/dont think
[19:27] <racarr> tvoss_: Well...it's some kind of MVC right! But it has a very particular structure
[19:27] <racarr> and has to provide a few seperate views
[19:27] <racarr> and I think part of what it needs to do is
[19:27] <tvoss_> racarr, right, but mvc can account for that ;)
[19:28] <tvoss_> racarr, gerry is merely pointing out that we can leverage an existing implementatoin quite easily. and I do strongly agree with that
[19:28] <racarr> support some system of
[19:28] <tvoss_> most likely, the glue layer I'm mentioning in the mail will allow for querying the views (compositor, input, focus) that you have in mind
[19:28] <racarr> transactional/atomic operations
[19:29] <racarr> mm
[19:29] <racarr> but I guess I am saying that is the real problem at hand
[19:30] <racarr> and if we knew these interfaces
[19:30] <racarr> the data structure is entirely trivial
[19:31] <racarr> maybe Qt through OpenSceneGraph can help us on the rendering end
[19:31] <racarr> but that's closer to a view on this structure in the compositor not the structure itself I think
[19:32] <racarr> right I mean this is our central data store, not our "rendering pass optimizer"
[19:35] <racarr> I honestly still dont understand what it would mean though, using the qt scene graph
[19:35] <racarr> does it mean ms::Surface implements QSceneGraphItem?
[19:38] <racarr> Are we talking about just reusing their data structure? or using the renderer too?
[19:38] <racarr> I don't think it understands that each display element has its own opengl context that its children are drawn in
[19:39] <racarr> so I don't understand how that can be integrated with the compositor exactly
[19:40] <racarr>  / at all.
[19:40] <racarr> Sorry :) I don't mean to be negative
[19:40] <racarr> but I literally don't know what the first step towards doing this would be
[19:47] <kgunn> racarr: what is the first "it's" in "one of it's responsibilities (it's interface to the compositor) coincides with some of the responsibility of a scene graph"
[19:47] <kgunn> i/f to compositor ?
[19:49] <bschaefer> kgunn, hey, been rebooting this machine for a while now and xmir starts up each time :(
[19:49] <bschaefer> using : 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Caicos PRO [Radeon HD 7450]
[19:49]  * bschaefer keeps rebooting
[19:51] <kgunn> bschaefer: hmmm....didrock's was a Cedar series...which i think is Radeon HD 5000 series of gpu
[19:52] <bschaefer> kgunn, right, i should go check my desktop really quick...as if its a cedar series it might be worth getting xmir installed on it
[19:52] <kgunn> bschaefer: also..
[19:52] <kgunn> just thinking
[19:52] <kgunn> it wasn't so much the fact it was cedar series....
[19:52] <kgunn> the current theory of suscpicion was that
[19:53] <bschaefer> the power management?
[19:53] <kgunn> didrock's machine didn't have pm firmware installed
[19:53] <kgunn> right
[19:53] <bschaefer> yeah, hmm I wonder if I can uninstall that...
[19:53] <kgunn> so when the gfx driver tried to use hw cursor it couldn't
[19:53] <kgunn> ...and then got pissed
[19:53] <bschaefer> but you would think things would fail softly...
[19:53] <bschaefer> instead of bringing everything down
[19:53] <kgunn>  (that's U.S. pissed not U.K. pissed)
[19:53]  * bschaefer is from U.S
[19:53]  * bschaefer just learned there was a difference
[19:54] <bschaefer> kgunn, would you happen to know how to remove pm firmware?
[19:54] <kgunn> oh...thot you were in canada...and you never know which they favor with speech :) z==zee vs zed
[19:54] <kgunn> bschaefer: no ide
[19:54] <kgunn> idea
[19:54] <bschaefer> kgunn, haha yeah, from Seattle :)
[19:54] <bschaefer> close
[19:55] <bschaefer> kgunn, alright, well ill look into if thats even possible to remove, and if removing it should yield a working desktop or not
[19:56] <kgunn> bschaefer: kernel folk might know....
[19:56] <bschaefer> kgunn, would you happen to know a channel for that? When/if i get stuck at lease...
[19:57] <racarr> kgunn: This data structure that we are debating in the email thread
[19:57] <racarr> if I understood your question
[19:58] <racarr> that point was just supposed to say that while it mimicks a scene graph in one scenario
[19:58] <kgunn> bschaefer: took a guess...lots of people in #ubuntu-kernel
[19:58] <racarr> I dont think that's the right way to come at it
[19:58] <bschaefer> kgunn, great guess :), thanks!
[19:58] <kgunn> racarr: ack
[19:58] <kgunn> bschaefer: high five!
[19:58] <racarr> I mean in the most literal sense
[19:58]  * bschaefer high fives back
[19:59] <racarr> it could be called a graph of the scene
[19:59] <racarr> but it could also be called a list haha
[20:00] <racarr> so I am trying to find the right direction to zoom in on it from
[20:01] <kgunn> bschaefer: hmm, could it disabling the "APM" option referred to here be the trick http://how-to.wikia.com/wiki/How_to_configure_the_Linux_kernel/Power_management_options_(ACPI,_APM)
[20:02]  * bschaefer takes a look
[20:02] <bschaefer> possibly, I was thinking I could move the firmware/driver out of its dir in the kernel somewhere
[20:03] <kgunn> bschaefer: maybe...something easier first...
[20:03] <kgunn> duh
[20:03] <kgunn> why not change the xorg conf to just rely on sw cursor
[20:03] <bschaefer> hmm so right now its relying on the hw cursor?
[20:04]  * bschaefer looks at the xorg conf
[20:10] <kgunn> bschaefer: so i guess any xorg driver actually reads the xorg conf file....
[20:10] <kgunn> http://linux.die.net/man/4/radeon
[20:11] <kgunn> ?
[20:11]  * kgunn realizes how little he knows
[20:12] <bschaefer> kgunn, as do I :), im looking at turning some things off in the BIOS at first possibly that'll cause the firmware to not load?
[20:12] <bschaefer> kgunn, also the machine im on doesn't even have an xorg conf file
[20:13] <bschaefer> but I did fine a bunch of binary in the kernel that looked like it was dealing with power...but I have a feeling moving those will cause other problem s:)
[20:13] <bschaefer> kgunn, how did we come to the conclusion the we were missing pm firmware?
[20:14] <kgunn> mlankhorst saw dmesg's go by saying so
[20:14] <kgunn> bschaefer, but i think you should be able to simply add a xorg conf file with over-riding values for options
[20:15] <bschaefer> right, i need to look at those man pages :)
[20:15] <bschaefer> lots of things to read :)
[20:15] <kgunn> i only think this because of sna wiki (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Testing/IntelSNA) where it talks about downloading their pre-formed version for sna
[20:19] <bschaefer> yeah you can add an xorg conf file... im just wondering why there wasnt one...
[20:20] <bschaefer> im also trying to wrap my head around why not having a pm firmware loaded would cause the hw cursor to not work
[20:24] <kgunn> on the pm part...hw cursor is actually a seperate piece of silicon, that requires to be "powered" up at some point, so something probably inside the hw mouse driver
[20:24] <kgunn> queried pm, it failed, so he failed..."sorry i ain't got no power"
[20:25] <bschaefer> that does make more sense, im waiting on this machine to do something
[20:38] <bschaefer> kgunn, sorry, seem to have broken to machine, hopefully I can get it up soon :)
[20:38] <kgunn> bschaefer: thanks for the effort
[20:38] <bschaefer> the machine*
[20:38] <kgunn> and the update
[20:38] <kgunn> :D
[20:38] <bschaefer> np, I guess you can't just disable all PM  and expect it to turn on :)
[20:44] <bschaefer> also forcing a SW wont help much atm, as im trying to reproduce the problem atm :)
[21:11] <bschaefer> alright, have the machine back...
[21:12] <xjunior> tvoss_: hey man, did have success
[21:12] <tvoss_> xjunior, how?
[21:13] <xjunior> any news on debugging the slowness on XMir
[21:14] <tvoss_> xjunior, ah, that was a question?
[21:14] <xjunior> yeah :) sorry
[21:15] <xjunior> I ate some words apparently
[21:15] <tvoss_> xjunior, no worries :) know the symptoms
[21:15] <tvoss_> so I have an instrumented build of X now, will give that a spin tomorrow. Its 11pm here :)
[21:18] <xjunior> oh, gotcha :) Europe?
[21:18] <tvoss_> xjunior, yup, Germany
[21:20] <xjunior> nice :) have friends there
[21:20] <kgunn> robert_ancell: so looks like the ati bug is the last hurdle (at least for universe)
[21:20] <xjunior> Alright, good luck tomorrow. Hope you solve it.
[21:20] <kgunn> robert_ancell: so some debug mlankhorst did that didrocks machine didn't have pm firmware installed...
[21:21] <mterry> robert_ancell, you asked about u8-greeter and running as mir server?
[21:21] <kgunn> so when hw cursor tried to init...it failed....and xmir didn't fall back to sw cursor
[21:21] <mterry> robert_ancell, I was thinking we wouldn't need to run as mir server anymore
[21:21] <kgunn> whereas standalone x does (or that is the assumption)
[21:22] <kgunn> robert_ancell: so bschaefer is in the midst of trying to "simulate" that problem...since didrocks is sleeping :) and we can't get to the machine
[21:23] <bschaefer> yeah, and so far xmir is working, sooo trying to remove pm firmware...but just got the broken machine back...
[21:23] <robert_ancell> mterry, I'm just getting LightDM to support Mir sessions/greeter with VT switching since we don't have nested Mir support yet. Just wondering if I can run the u8 greeter for now like that or support has been dropped
[21:23] <kgunn> robert_ancell: so i'm hoping this is either a bug or missing feature we have to fall back to sw cursor
[21:24] <robert_ancell> kgunn, who let didrocks go to sleep? ;)
[21:24] <kgunn> i know... right ?
[21:24] <robert_ancell> kgunn, yeah, wonder if it's just never been noticed because everything does the fallback
[21:24] <robert_ancell> seems like it should be fixed in the driver depending on how widespread it is
[21:25] <kgunn> robert_ancell: yeah...its one of those bugs that might have been lurking...also, just in case...didrock card was  a Cedar (5000 series)
[21:26] <kgunn> just in case....as in bschaefer is toying around on a 7000 series
[21:26] <bschaefer> it would be strange that a specific ATI card was doing this vs PM ... but what do i know haha
[21:27] <kgunn> robert_ancell: if you, duflu or RAOF have a 5000 series it might be worth it just to enable swcursor in xorg.conf and test it
[21:27] <bschaefer> they are under different classes though...
[21:27] <robert_ancell> kgunn, I just have the one intel/nvidia card
[21:27] <kgunn> it would at least help in confirm/deny
[21:27] <mterry> robert_ancell, my branch is still using an internal mir-server
[21:27] <bschaefer> im on a Caicos PRO
[21:27] <kgunn> that this whole issue is related to swcursor
[21:27] <mterry> robert_ancell, i.e. I haven't made it a pure client yet
[21:28] <robert_ancell> mterry, cool, can you keep it like that for testing purposes until we have the whole stack ready?
[21:28] <robert_ancell> or support both?
[21:28] <kgunn> mterry: now has 3 optional configs he needs to support :))
[21:29] <mterry> :)
[21:30] <mterry> robert_ancell, uh, I can keep my current split as is, yeah.  Let me know when you don't care about mir-server mode anymore
[21:30] <robert_ancell> mterry, will do :)
[21:37] <kgunn> robert_ancell: also...would you mind dispositioning the MIR feedback ? i think your best to speak to it
[21:37] <kgunn> robert_ancell: one note...for all the "need to assign a bug owner"
[21:38]  * robert_ancell looks up dispositioning
[21:38] <kgunn> olli chose mir-team for the moment :)
[21:38] <robert_ancell> kgunn, that works for now
[21:38] <kgunn> yeah...he promised to seek another victim...oops i mean owner
[21:39] <robert_ancell> wiktionary says "Present participle of disposition.". Now I have to remember what a present participle is :)
[21:39] <kdub> EventSink hitch-hikes through a lot of constructors
[21:40] <kgunn> :)
[21:40] <kgunn> robert_ancell: whenever RAOF or duflu come on, just check if they've got a cedar/5000 series ati card to try (w sw cursor).....since that bugs our #1 right now
[21:41] <robert_ancell> kgunn, ok
[21:47] <robert_ancell> mterry, oh, how did you remove the u-s-c task from the mir MIR?
[21:55] <mterry> robert_ancell, there's a little red minus symbol next to the tasks
[21:55] <robert_ancell> mterry, huh, I totally missed that
[21:57] <mterry> robert_ancell, way nicer than marking invalid in terms of bug spam
[21:57] <robert_ancell> yes
[22:08] <robert_ancell> mterry, in the MIRs you refer to needing a dev team subscribed to bug reports. Is that the "bug supervisor" in https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir?
[22:14] <mterry> robert_ancell, yeah, but for the ubuntu package side, not the upstream one
[22:15] <mterry> so ubuntu/+source/mir
[22:15] <robert_ancell> mterry, k
[22:15] <mterry> I guess that's mir-team
[22:16] <robert_ancell> mterry, so, Unity doesn't seem to have a subscriber https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity
[22:22] <mterry> robert_ancell, that would be good to add too
[22:23] <mterry> robert_ancell, we didn't use to *require* it, only strongly suggest it
[22:23] <mterry> robert_ancell, but no one did it, so we are bumping up our language
[22:23] <robert_ancell> mterry, yeah, I'm trying to find *any* project that has a team subscribed to bug email
[22:24] <racarr> kdub: It's not strong coupling, all the classes are just really good friends and having a party.
[22:24] <racarr> :p
[22:25] <mterry> robert_ancell, most of the gnome desktop ones have a team subscribed
[22:25] <robert_ancell> the dialog for this is really bad. The list of teams is not sorted alphabetically
[22:28] <robert_ancell> and you can't seem to tell who is subscribed by looking at the project page
[22:42] <kdub> racarr, haha
[22:47] <robert_ancell> RAOF, did you see the traceback about cedar/5000 series ATI cards
[22:47] <RAOF> robert_ancell: I did, yes.
[22:47] <robert_ancell> RAOF, got any?
[22:47] <RAOF> I do not.
[22:48] <RAOF> I've got a 4535 or somesuch, and a 7870 that I don't have a desktop box to put into.
[22:48] <bschaefer> RAOF, i've been trying to reproduce it as well, on a 7450
[22:49] <bschaefer> but xmir is working perfectly
[22:50] <bschaefer> RAOF, it was mentioned that this could be due to the power management firmware missing, but it doesn't seem to be easy to just remove that to test if thats the problem...
[22:52] <RAOF> bschaefer: I don't know about that - on 3.11 kernels you need more firmware than we've got in linux-firmware to *load* radeon.ko, but (a) we're running a 3.10 kernel, and (b) Mir would fail in a different way if that were the case.
[22:54] <bschaefer> yeah... hmm I wonder if its the radeon family (as the 5000 is in the evergreen series) drivers then...
[22:54] <bschaefer> RAOF, shouldn't mir attempt to play nice when it can't load the HW cursor?
[22:54] <RAOF> Maybe? It currently doesn't, though.
[22:55] <bschaefer> well you would assume if this happens: std::exception::what: failed to create gbm buffer
[22:55] <bschaefer> no other gbm buffers are going to work...
[22:56] <RAOF> You know what? I should look in the xf86-video-ati source and see whether they have any specific hacks for that card & the hw cursor.
[22:56] <RAOF> Unfortunately, not. The hw cursor bo is super-specific - failing to allocate it doesn't mean that you'll fail to allocate anything else.
[22:57] <bschaefer> o hmm thats interesting
[22:57] <bschaefer> well im sure you've seen the list family for the ATI cards but: http://xorg.freedesktop.org/wiki/RadeonFeature/
[22:58] <bschaefer> as the card im using is under Nothern Islands...idk if that even matters though vs the driver is self for each card
[23:14] <RAOF> Isn't a 7450 SI? Stupid damned marketing department.
[23:16] <bschaefer> it should be, looking at the number but the machine im on gives me:
[23:16] <bschaefer> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Caicos PRO [Radeon HD 7450]
[23:16] <bschaefer> which Caicos is a NI card...possibly the  PRO is throwing it off...
[23:17] <bschaefer> but looking here as well: http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Radeon#Feature_support
[23:17] <bschaefer> and it  has the 7450 under NI
[23:18] <RAOF> Yeah, it the radeon page is probably right.
[23:18] <bschaefer> hmm my desktop that i've not used in a while had an evergreen card
[23:18] <RAOF> I just hate that the card marketing generation is not the same as the card chip generation.
[23:18] <bschaefer> a redwood one
[23:19]  * bschaefer starts downloading13.10
[23:19] <RAOF> I've got an evergreen (although I can't quite remember the specific model) too, but that worked fine last time I tried it.
[23:19]  * RAOF will be slow for the next hour or so, as he's minding Zoë.
[23:20] <bschaefer> well it'll take  a bit for me to get my desktop up with xmir.. 1-2 hours...
[23:20] <bschaefer> it'll be strange if its just specific to CEDAR
[23:21] <bschaefer> but then again this could be normal, as I haven't done video card stuff much before :)
[23:22] <bschaefer> hopefully duflu will come on a reproduce the problem
[23:22] <bschaefer> and*
[23:44] <RAOF> Hey, is there any way to get a buffer ID that crosses the IPC boundary? I want to check that the buffer I most recently submitted from XMir is *really* the buffer that Mir's displaying.
[23:48] <olli_> bregma, can you pls ping the relevant armhf issues to slangasek?
[23:48] <olli_> or robert_ancell ^
[23:52] <kgunn> RAOF: ok....any guesses on why robotfuel might see openarena values higher on Xmir vs X ?
[23:52] <kgunn> kgunn: the results are still strange with the monitor attached x is 44.47  frames per second average and xmir is 136.97
[23:53] <kgunn> is it because there's no governing ?
[23:53] <kgunn> e.g. no more vsync on the bottom of x (moved to the bottom of mir)
[23:53] <kgunn> robotfuel might take a trained eye....but do you see any tearing ?
[23:54] <RAOF> vsync would be my immediate guess
[23:54] <robert_ancell> kdub, around?
[23:54] <kdub> yep
[23:54] <RAOF> XMir clients are *not* throttled to vsync
[23:55] <robert_ancell> kdub, I've just forwarded you an email regarding armhf tests and android. Perhaps you can help understand what lp:mir expects and what is happening
[23:56] <kdub> sure
[23:56] <kgunn> robotfuel: does it also provide time to complete ?....and is that different on x vs xmir ? (ignoring the fps for moment)
[23:56] <kgunn> RAOF: right...so clients can go nuts and swap buffers as they like...which means, the truly displayed frames is much less than that
[23:57] <kgunn> or "allegedly" is much less than that :)


[00:29] <fta> asac, it's not the bandaid
[00:48] <asac> fta: so backport of what you showed me on 3.1?
[00:48] <fta> i don't know for sure, no src package
[01:18] <asac> hehe yeah. fud then
[01:30] <fta> asac, no, i said no bandaid because there's no libcairo inside the debs
[01:41] <fta> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=946574
[01:41] <asac> hmm
[01:42] <asac> fta: thtas broken
[01:42] <fta> i know, but the error is funny
[01:42] <fta> iis like
[01:42] <asac> yeah ;)
[01:43] <fta> title is "Garbled Windows with Intel graphics"
[01:44] <fta> with corrupted screenshots of ff
[01:48] <fta> asac, http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/corrupted.png
[01:51] <fta> well, the page is back
[02:14] <asac> yeah
[02:14] <asac> wouldnt say i expected it to be fixed
[02:14] <asac> ;)
[09:44] <gnomefreak> I hate when people do that :(
[09:44] <gnomefreak> !info thunderbird intrepid
[09:47] <gnomefreak> ok this is weird, from announce-prerelease mailing list from mozilla just informed me that <IP_ADDRESS>=RC <IP_ADDRESS>=Beta <IP_ADDRESS>=Beta
[09:47] <gnomefreak> seems to say firefox 3.0.1 is pre release as well
[09:59] <gnomefreak> 1268 bug mail
[10:03] <gnomefreak> asac: what is the setting in firefox to make it not take focus? as in opening a tab firefox steals focus
[10:04] <asac> gnomefreak: there is no setting as far as i can tell
[10:04] <gnomefreak> there used to be i just cant remember it
[10:05] <gnomefreak> fta: had given it to me a while ago
[10:12] <asac> then i dont know :=
[10:20] <gnomefreak> :)
[10:22] <gnomefreak> asac: .:05:16:09:. <        ozatomic > does this sound right to anyone. Just booted  up laptop with 8.10, and it locked up during  load, reboot load .24 kernal instead boots  fine, reboot into .27 kernal loads fine but no  wireless, reboot load .27 kernal again and  wireless is found :S
[10:22] <gnomefreak> does that make sense?
[10:35] <asac> no. but often wireless is just unreliable
[10:36] <gnomefreak> true
[10:37] <gnomefreak> he than tells me gnome doesnt work
[10:37]  * gnomefreak would have thought that would be first :(
[11:03] <asac> fta: ok ... we need a transition package for firefox-2
[11:03] <asac> it was removed now
[11:26] <gnomefreak> it wont remove it upon upgrade?
[11:53] <asac> didrocks: ping
[11:53] <asac> didrocks: swfdec ;)
[12:25] <armin76> asac: bumb!
[12:51] <didrocks> asac: pong
[12:52] <didrocks> :)
[12:52] <didrocks> I have some additionnal information to ask (for my general culture, I don't like to do stuff I don't understand)
[12:52] <didrocks> in one hour approximately, I have to do some stuff for my paid work first ;)
[12:59] <asac> k
[13:05] <asac> damn. i am going crazy
[13:05] <asac> why is apache2 so dumb?
[13:05] <asac> it doesnt allow me to use userdir :(
[13:06] <asac> anyone uses apache here?
[13:14] <asac> stupid me ;)
[13:16] <asac> wasted half a day with apache config, but in the end it was $HOME permission issue :(
[13:33] <sebner> asac: BTW, would you mind telling me what's going on irc.ubuntu.com? I'm wondering since it seems everybody is here on freenode
[13:41] <asac> sebner: ?
[13:42] <asac> sebner: irc.ubuntu.com is just a alias ... it currently points to freenode
[13:42] <sebner> asac: ah, good to know ^^
[13:42] <asac> if we decide to move the ubuntu project somewhere else we would point that somewhere else :)
[13:42] <sebner> kk
[13:42] <asac> like irc.debian.org, which moved from freenode to oftc
[13:43] <sebner> freenode is not big enough for these 2, hmm :P
[13:43] <asac> freenode was too annoying for debian folks
[13:43] <sebner>  ^ ^
[13:44] <asac> we ended up haveing half the folks in #debian-devel on freenode and the other half on oftc
[13:44] <sebner> would make collaboration easier though
[13:44] <asac> there were a bunch of DDs that refused to join freenode and once more than half were on oftc it was made official :)
[13:44] <asac> well. adding another server to decent IRC clients isnt hard ;)
[13:45] <sebner> sure but people are lazy :P
[13:56] <asac> didrocks: 1h ;)
[14:06] <fta2> asac, so mike extracted a patch from moz cairo
[14:07] <fta2> asac, i have cairo 1.8.0 ready, should we include the same patch??
[14:08] <fta2> http://glandium.org/blog/?p=209
[14:28] <didrocks> asac: re :)
[14:29] <didrocks> I dream about having a work for ubuntu, one day ^^
[14:29] <didrocks> so, I just have some question
[14:29] <didrocks> the package is ready, but I need to build it at home and make the check if FF3 is not in an installed state
[14:30] <didrocks> so, my question were:
[14:30] <didrocks> "for touch in firefox-3*/.autoreg || true`; do touch...
[14:31] <didrocks> I think it would be better if we also touching these file on remove/purge
[14:32] <didrocks> 2. What about iceweasel (I do not remember if we have it on intrepid)?
[14:32] <didrocks> 3. he plugin contain a lot of empy folder: /usr/lib/(iceweasel|iceape|mozilla|xulrunner]/plugins which are populated by a symlink with the update-alternatives, but it creates a lot of unused directories (same with the new ubufox one)... Why creating some craps in the FHS :)
[14:33] <didrocks> and 4. /usr/share/ubufox/plugins/ -> what the use of it?
[14:33] <didrocks> (having a symlink with the .so file)
[14:33] <didrocks> when you will be back, of course ^^
[14:36] <asac> didrocks: touching on remove wont be needed for plugins
[14:36] <asac> didrocks: no iceweasel in ubuntu
[14:37] <asac> didrocks: the ubufox directory is done through dh_link ... isnt it?
[14:37] <asac> didrocks: the alternative directories needs to be redone
[14:37] <asac> but thats true for everything and we should do a batch effort in jaunty
[14:38] <asac> didrocks: could you show me the control?
[14:38] <didrocks> asac: created or symlink for "the ubufox directory" ?
[14:38] <asac> didrocks: just a dh_link should be enough
[14:38] <asac> no need to create the directory ... that happens implicitly
[14:39] <asac> didrocks: i need to check the Xb-Npp headers ;)
[14:39] <asac> just paste control somewhere
[14:40] <didrocks> asac: http://paste.ubuntu.com/57440/
[14:40] <didrocks> for the directory, I made the same as for the others symlinks
[14:40] <didrocks> that is to say :
[14:40] <asac> looks decent
[14:40] <asac> thanks
[14:40] <didrocks> - create the directory using swfdec-mozilla.dirs
[14:40] <didrocks> - in the postinst, using update-alternatives
[14:40] <asac> nope. just swfdec-mozilla.links
[14:41] <asac> the dirs isnt needed anymore
[14:41] <asac> dont use the update-alternatives mess for the ubufox link ;)
[14:41] <didrocks> ok :)
[14:41] <didrocks> what does this directory used for?
[14:41] <asac> didrocks: i will show you in a few
[14:42] <asac> install your latest package and the latest mozilla-plugin-gnash package
[14:42] <asac> didrocks: in about:plugins you should now see both: gnash + swfdec
[14:42] <didrocks> asac: I am at work, I take note and will see that tonight :)
[14:42] <didrocks> (my intrepid VM is deconnected from the network)
[14:42] <didrocks> s/deconnect/disconnected
[14:44] <asac> didrocks: ok. give me the debdiff then please
[14:44] <didrocks> hum, I didn't test it, I wanted to do it this evening (testing with FF3 removed, in particular), so be sure that everything is ok. Can I give it to you tomorrow mornging, tested?
[14:46] <fta2> asac, ^^ (cairo)
[14:50] <sebner> what do my eyes are seeing. ff 3.1 b1 binaries :D
[14:50] <cwillu_remote> if I say "nssessionstore 'component is not available'", is anyone familiar with what I'm talking about?
[14:50] <cwillu_remote> the sessionsaver bug that breaks restoring on (among other things) really big sessions,
[14:50] <cwillu_remote> ?
[14:53] <fta2> sebner, ??
[14:55] <sebner> fta2: ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/3.1b1/
[14:56] <fta2> so ?
[14:57] <sebner> fta2: nice isn't it? ^^
[14:57] <fta2> what ? i'm getting a nice dialog asking for a password. never seen it before
[15:00] <asac> didrocks: better give it to me
[15:00] <asac> didrocks: i really would like to get this up asap
[15:00] <asac> i can fix the rest if its not too much
[15:00] <didrocks> asac: ok, I open a bug and attach to it?
[15:01] <sebner> fta2: O_o me not. I can download b1.tar.gz or .exe ...
[15:01] <asac> didrocks: if you want ... isnt there a 0.8 bug open or something?
[15:02] <didrocks> yes, we can attach it to bug #279207
[15:02] <sebner> asac: http://www.golem.de/0810/62929.html  Iron ftw! ^^
[15:03] <fta2> sebner, http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/Screenshot-Enter-Password.png
[15:03] <fta2> [reed], ^^
[15:06] <sebner> fta2: http://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshotindexofftpftppl2.png
[15:15] <didrocks> asac: bug #279207, debdiff is attached
[15:15] <asac> didrocks: debdiff agains debian?
[15:16] <asac> or isnt there a debian thing?
[15:16] <didrocks> asac: hum, no, debdiff against last ubuntu version
[15:16] <asac> didrocks: can you also attach the diff.gz and dsc please?
[15:16] <asac> for the latest?
[15:17] <asac> thanks
[15:17] <didrocks> ok
[15:18] <didrocks> that what I have done for the other (normally, I do that for updating to a new version), but as you requested a debdiff... :)
[15:18] <didrocks> asac: done
[15:18] <asac> gratias
[15:18] <asac> enjoy. i will see if i can take over
[15:18] <asac> if there are too many issues we can do that tomorrow
[15:19] <didrocks> ok, keep me in touch :)
[15:19] <asac> didrocks: oh where is the link to the orig?
[15:19] <asac> i hate hunting that by myself
[15:20] <asac> didrocks: there is no thing for both ... if you dont answer i will hunt them ;)
[15:20] <didrocks> asac: one sec
[15:21] <didrocks> asac : http://swfdec.freedesktop.org/download/swfdec-mozilla/0.8/swfdec-mozilla-0.8.0.tar.gz
[15:21] <asac> thx
[15:21] <asac> -gnome?
[15:21] <didrocks> http://ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/GNOME/sources/swfdec-gnome/2.24/
[15:22] <asac> ok i will find the other then i guess
[15:22] <didrocks> for swfdec ?
[15:22] <asac> y
[15:22] <didrocks> it is in the repository, no ?
[15:22] <didrocks> (it has been accepted short time ago)
[15:23] <didrocks> yes, at 3:30PM, should be released now
[15:24] <asac> ah ok
[15:24] <asac> err ... so it was uploaded?
[15:24] <didrocks> yes, dholbach has uploaded it a couple of day ago
[15:25] <didrocks> but as it has been a new package (because of the naming convention), it has waited in NEW
[15:26] <asac> yeah that sucks
[15:27] <asac> we should try to convince debian maintainer to stop doing that
[15:27] <didrocks> the issue is the soname of the librairy
[15:27] <asac> doesnt matter
[15:27] <didrocks> it has no version in it...
[15:27] <asac> the binary packages could be changing
[15:27] <asac> thats ok
[15:27] <asac> but not a new source for each and every release
[15:28] <asac> that shouldnt be done unless you can prevent that
[15:28] <didrocks> ok, yes, that's possible
[15:28] <asac> the debian maintainer says: i like to ship two version in the same release
[15:28] <asac> (even though not a single rdepends exist) :)
[15:28] <didrocks> that's very useful ^^
[15:28] <asac> yeah
[15:28] <asac> obviously
[15:29] <asac> archive admins are idle anyway. why not put load on them for nothing ;)
[15:29] <didrocks> fortunately, every packages does not the same...
[15:30] <didrocks> yes, archive admins do nothing, everyone knows that :D
[15:34] <asac> didrocks: -dev is not yet on my mirror
[15:35] <didrocks> ok, if you want to build it yourself: http://swfdec.freedesktop.org/download/swfdec/0.8/swfdec-0.8.0.tar.gz
[16:04] <asac> didrocks: its for i ... ; do (e.g. not :)
[16:04] <asac> fixed
[16:08] <didrocks> asac: oupssss, mistyping (I can't use here the usual excuse "I use ksh at work" there ;))
[16:19] <asac> hehe
[16:42] <asac> didrocks: uploaded
[16:43] <asac> only thing changed was the ;
[16:43] <asac> or ... hmm cant remember ;)
[16:44] <didrocks> great :)
[16:44] <asac> didrocks: please test what comes back from archive ;)
[16:44] <asac> when home of course
[16:45] <didrocks> yes, I will do it tonight (or tomorrow morning, I will not escape from the OOo 3 event in Paris ^^)
[16:45] <didrocks> I keep you in touch to give some test removing FF3 and install it (snapshot rocks to come back to a stable state ;))
[16:46] <asac> didrocks: snapshot?
[16:46] <asac> 3.1?
[16:47] <didrocks> asac: I usually use the one embedded in the VM
[16:52] <asac> fta2: so you are saying that you are seeing the cairo bug?
[16:52] <asac> cairo/X bug?
[16:55] <fta2> nope
[16:55] <didrocks> thx asac for both sponsoring :)
[18:53] <[reed]> fta2: never seen that before
[20:21] <sebner> asac: fta2 are you also TB heros?
[20:21] <fta> sebner, is that a question for me ?
[20:22] <sebner> fta: if you are a hero yes :P
[20:22] <fta> i packaged tb3, but i would not say i'm a tb hero
[20:22] <sebner> fta: I ever used TB without problems and *now* that. http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshotalertmh6.png
[20:24] <sebner> could also be a gmail issue though ^^
[20:24] <sebner> but never had this before
[20:25] <fta> are you using a proxy?
[20:25] <sebner> no
[20:25] <sebner> and as I said. never happened before
[20:25] <sebner> and I didn't change anything the last hours (where it was working)
[20:29] <asac> sebner: "the last hours"? what did you change a few hours ago?
[20:29] <sebner> asac: nothing :\
[20:30] <sebner> asac: what I wanted to say was that I checked mails some hours ago and it was working and now I checked and this is the result but I didn't change anything
[20:30] <fta> could be a problem in their mail farm
[20:31] <asac> yeah most likely
[20:31] <sebner> fta: asac kk, thx ^^
[20:32] <fta> google has a lot of hits, some years old, all platforms, all mua, so it's not tb related
[20:33] <sebner> kk
[20:41] <fta> sebner, btw, i can't stand your colors ;)
[20:42] <sebner> fta: that'S ubuntu default :P
[20:42] <sebner> fta: /me is just too lazy to change it
[20:42] <fta> really ? i thought it has been reverted months ago
[20:43] <sebner> fta: hmm, ok it's not that default. Human is still the old one but it's still there called NewHuman
[20:45] <sebner> fta: it's not that good true but as I said I'm too lazy to change it ^^
[20:45] <fta> asac, is bug 226139 really release-critical??
[20:47] <fta> if it is, it could be backported from trunk, but i seriously doubt it should be considered release-critical
[20:49] <asac> fta: its not release critical for firefox
[20:50] <asac> its not release critical for the overall release
[20:50] <asac> its only a rc bug for the theme thing imo
[20:50] <fta> The list of release-critical bugs is tracked here:
[20:50] <fta>   https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs?field.milestone=1326
[20:50] <fta> Subject: intrepid release freeze approaching
[20:50] <asac> yeah
[20:51] <asac> fta: i removed it from that list now
[20:52] <asac> damnm
[20:52] <asac> i have to upload this ubufox thign tomorrow :)
[20:52] <asac> or even today ;)
[20:52] <asac> otherwise it will surely not make it through RM
[20:57] <sebner> TB with gmail working again :)
[21:00] <fta> asac, we should fix the firefox-branding.js bug
[21:04] <fta> gasp, my wallpaper just changed
[21:06] <fta> FENNEC_A1_BRANCH
[21:17] <fta> "Shredder Alpha 3 is now available" let's see if it's now a4pre or b1pre
[21:18] <fta> b1pre, nice, I can update the package again
[21:35] <fta> sebner, just retested DarkRoom, i still hate it. far too many things still have a white background. launchpad is 1st on the list
[21:37] <sebner> fta: ^^ unfortunately true but it's still acceptable for me
[21:41] <fta> greader and gmail are also white
[21:41] <sebner> fta: well I use TB for gmail ^^
[21:41] <fta> google too
[21:42] <fta> i use prism
[21:42] <sebner> sometimes the buttons are difficult to read
[22:33] <crimsun> fta: I think your nondeterministic audio blocking issues are related to bug 274124
[22:42] <fta> crimsun, in my case, i never have to kill pa, usually, identifying and killing the app that stole the snd dev is enough
[22:43] <fta> is do that with sudo lsof -n | grep snd
[22:43] <fta> it's usually one of firefox/prism/totem/rhythmbox
[22:44] <crimsun> right, sudo {lsof,fuser -v} /dev/dsp* /dev/snd/*
[22:44] <crimsun> hopefully I'll have time to chase down the rabbit hole when I'm back from travel
[22:48] <fta> the new ibex wallpaper has too many details. it's difficult to read the icon names on it
[22:54] <fta> asac, the pdf generated by ff3(.1) are unreadable
[23:32] <asac> fta: hmm
[23:32] <asac> for me it worked when i last tried
[23:32] <asac> maybe cairo regression?
[23:35] <fta> asac, when i print this http://www.notre-planete.info/actualites/actu_1790.php, i get this http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/coccinelles.pdf and it looks like this http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/coccinelles.png
[23:36] <asac> ok ubufox shoved up :)
[23:36] <asac> 24h before end-freeze
[23:37] <asac> fta: err. where does that thing print to?
[23:38] <fta> ? to file, as pdf
[23:38] <asac> i selected "pdf"
[23:38] <asac> it printed
[23:38] <asac> and now its nowhere ;)
[23:39] <asac> pdf printer that was
[23:39] <fta> for me, pdf doesn't work. it does apparently nothing, but the status turns to "no %%Pages header..."


[18:24] <Atamira> morning
[18:30] <ibeardslee> morning
[18:58] <olly> morning
[19:12] <ibeardslee> raring has been well behaved on my laptop .. touchwaood, cross fingers etc .. might to my workstation later this week
[19:26] <ajmitch> morning


[15:46] <roadmr> hello folks, even though there's no official vanguard, is there someone who could please look at RT#79291? we're dead in the water until that's solved :(
[17:21] <DrTobbe> Hi, how can I file a "high quality bug report" for hardware problems? I just tried running ubuntu-bug but it failed when I chose "Other problem" with the information that I should choose a package or PID. As I think that it is a kernel bug, could I run e.g. ubuntu-bug linux-image-3.xyz or how should I do it?


[14:10] <Brainstorm> Updates for Bangladesh: +1693 cases (now 1.1 million) since a day ago
[16:40] <Brainstorm> Updates for Bangladesh: +5087 cases (now 1.2 million), +195 deaths (now 19046) since 2 hours ago


[09:20] <marxjohn1on> is anyone else having trouble with APT this morning? I get a load of 404s when trying to run apt-get update, although I can access the URLs fine in a browser
[09:24] <zmoylan-pi> apt-get update running fine in other terminal window
[09:26] <marxjohn1on> damn, looks like like an issue with sudo rather than with apt :/
[09:30] <marxjohn1on> hmm, seems to have fixed itself after a reboot!
[09:40] <popey> \o/
[09:40] <popey> yay, now my laptop has longest uptime its ever had (in this install)
[09:40] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9658563/
[09:40] <popey> 17 days!
[09:42] <zmoylan-pi> my rasp pi laughs at your puny 17 days human :-)
[09:43] <zmoylan-pi> i recently had to reboot it after a network outage.  first reboot in about 3 months
[10:24] <foobarry>  10:24:40 up 1167 days, 21:17,  2 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.06, 0.03
[10:36] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:41] <zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
[10:45] <awilkins> Urrgh, it's 2015
[10:45] <zmoylan-pi> but you'll be writing dates down as 2014 for a few days weeks yet :-)
[10:47] <brobostigon> months
[12:11]  * Azelphur facedesks
[12:12] <Azelphur> I saw a nice clip-on gamepad on Amazon and it states it'll only work with 82mm phones but the Nexus 6 is 83mm, so I asked a question on Amazon to see if anyone knew if it fits on the N6
[12:12] <Azelphur> some guy replies "I've got an N4 and its fine" ... -.-
[12:17]  * xnox ponders about buying N6
[12:17] <Azelphur> xnox: I'm pondering too which is why I wanna make sure it fits ;)
[12:25]  * brobostigon is happy with his nexus4, not too big, not too small.
[12:38]  * awilkins is another happy Nexus 4 person, not even unhappy with the battery life
[12:39] <awilkins> Android L seems to have really perked it up.
[12:39] <brobostigon> last about a day i would say, average.
[12:39]  * brobostigon agrees
[12:40] <awilkins> If it was an easy matter to replace the battery I would probably consider doing it just to refresh it, but since it's a fiddle, I'll probably wait until it actually annoys me.
[15:29] <cocoa117> does preseeding have option to use NFS as option to install Ubuntu?
[15:29] <cocoa117> kickstart have this optin in the kickstart file e.g. nfs --server <IP_ADDRESS> --dir /srv/dfds
[15:34] <sebsebseb> hi
[15:46] <popey> hello sebsebseb
[15:46] <sebsebseb> popey: hi
[15:47] <sebsebseb> popey: are you back at work today?
[15:55] <popey> sebsebseb: nope
[15:55] <popey> Monday
[15:56] <sebsebseb> Ubuntu BQ Phone
[15:56] <sebsebseb> next month then?
[15:56] <sebsebseb> popey: I am about to get my Jolla,  waiting for parcel to come, I shoud have put the code in for that before Christmas really since had paid etc
[15:56] <sebsebseb> ,but might get a BQ Ubuntu Phone to
[15:58] <popey> yeah, mid feb i believe
[15:58] <penguin42> popey: How's the headware ?
[15:58] <sebsebseb> yeah accordingg to omgubuntu, but your the expert on that realy not htem :d
[15:58] <popey> friend of mine just got a jolla, he likes phones with real keyboards.
[15:58] <sebsebseb> oh  jolla has a real keyboard?
[15:58] <sebsebseb> yeah I'll get tablet in May to
[15:58] <popey> well, actually omgubuntu Joey is one of the Ubuntu Insiders
[15:58] <popey> who get news before us
[15:59] <sebsebseb> really?
[15:59] <sebsebseb> even though the site is unoffial
[15:59] <popey> sebsebseb: yes, there was an indiegogo campaign
[15:59] <popey> yes
[15:59] <sebsebseb> yep that's what I contributed to
[15:59] <popey> he's one of a whole bunch
[15:59] <sebsebseb> the indiego compain for Jolla
[15:59] <popey> Jordan Keyes is too
[15:59] <popey> no, a separate indiegogo for a keyboard
[15:59] <sebsebseb> also the edge before actaully I think, but that never happended so
[15:59] <popey> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2028347278/tohkbd-the-other-half-keyboard-for-your-jolla
[15:59] <popey> good if you like real keyboards
[15:59] <foobarry> spotify app works for non premium accoints now..
[15:59] <sebsebseb> oh another one
[16:00] <sebsebseb> yes that's what annoys me about my Andoird phone trying to type on there is so slow uh
[16:00] <sebsebseb> I am a touch typist :)
[16:00] <foobarry> also, i don't seem to get any ads on the web player anymore ;S
[16:00] <sebsebseb> for 15 years or so
[16:00] <sebsebseb> so if you mean real keyboard as in like computer keyboard, well :)
[16:02] <sebsebseb> popey: yes that's good, is that for the tablet to hm
[16:02] <sebsebseb> that looks good I mean above
[16:03] <popey> penguin42: it's http://store.bqreaders.com/es/smartphones/aquaris-e-4-5 - not high end
[16:03] <sebsebseb> yeah so what will the price be of it
[16:03] <sebsebseb> in pounds or proabably hmm
[16:03] <popey> dunno, but should be similar to that price linked above
[16:05] <penguin42> popey: No, I meant your promise to wear unusual headgear
[16:05] <sebsebseb> about 117 pounds it seems then
[16:06] <popey> penguin42: haha, i thought you meant hardware :D
[16:06] <sebsebseb> I guess shoudn't be to much more than £100  since aparnatly the hardware is about a year old to on that phone
[16:07] <sebsebseb> popey: then the high end  phone is for USA and such mainly isn't it, from the other company? that comes out later
[16:08] <popey> Meizu is chi
[16:08] <popey> *China
[16:08] <sebsebseb> popey: I am listening to the new years show,  now starting to listen to you
[16:08] <popey> hehe
[16:09] <sebsebseb> I will do the whole thing
[16:09] <sebsebseb> it isn't really 26 hours though, since  white space
[16:09] <ali1234> if I get a BQ phone, can I put android on it if/when ubuntu totally sucks?
[16:09] <sebsebseb> ali1234: probably
[16:10] <sebsebseb> try it might be a bit sucky I guess,  someties anyway,  but  it wil still be intresitng to have the first one :)
[16:11]  * sebsebseb will have a Jolla as well :d  and  my old two years old Android phone
[16:12] <ali1234> i might be able to get a freebie but it depends if they actually bother to send them out
[16:12] <ali1234> if not i'll have to buy one
[16:12] <sebsebseb> freeibie from where?
[16:12] <ali1234> but pretty much i only want to try it out
[16:12] <sebsebseb> ali1234: no I think BQ will sel them and that's that
[16:12] <ali1234> you know, from people :)
[16:12] <sebsebseb> if it's about £100 that's reasonable
[16:12] <sebsebseb> I think
[16:13] <sebsebseb> ,but not to much over that, hardware is old aparnatly
[16:13] <ali1234> they always send out review devices when they make a new phone
[16:13] <sebsebseb> hmm true to media
[16:13] <ali1234> and by "they" i mean all mobile phone manufacturers
[16:13] <sebsebseb> some bloggers
[16:13] <ali1234> however this isn't really a new phone so who know
[16:13]  * sebsebseb probably woudn't get one free anyway
[16:17] <sebsebseb> popey: so apparnatly ubuntu uk podcast might be stopping?
[16:19] <popey> is it?
[16:20] <sebsebseb> popey: no just something some were saying on the thing
[16:20] <popey> the thing?
[16:20] <sebsebseb> apparnatly Tony is leaveing I should probably say?
[16:20] <popey> ali1234: yeah, we're sending some out to some people
[16:20] <popey> yeah, he is
[16:21] <sebsebseb> ,but you  lot going to carry on without him?
[16:21] <ali1234> canonical is? normally BQ would do that :)
[16:21] <popey> we are.
[16:21] <popey> google send out nexus devices, not lg
[16:21] <sebsebseb> ok that's what I wanted to know :)
[16:21] <ali1234> nexus devices are google branded tho
[16:21] <sebsebseb> why's he leaving?  someone mentioend on podcast that's all
[16:21] <popey> sebsebseb: hang on, my "we are" was in reply to ali1234
[16:21] <sebsebseb> oh
[16:21] <popey> sebsebseb: he said on uupc
[16:22] <popey> and the bq is ubuntu branded (I think)
[16:22] <ali1234> i guess they have the manufacturer logo on them too
[16:22] <popey> nexus devices are co-branded.
[16:22] <sebsebseb> oh ok well I haven't heard that
[16:22] <ali1234> yeah, interesting, that :)
[16:22] <popey> heh
[16:22] <ali1234> you sure you're allowed to tell us this? ;)
[16:22] <popey> heh
[16:22] <popey> I'm only telling you what I've seen reported elsewhere :D
[16:22] <popey> (publicly)
[16:22] <sebsebseb> omgubuntu guy gets a free one I guess joey :d
[16:22] <popey> yes
[16:23] <ali1234> i expected it would be more of a "canonical makes the OS, manufacturer takes it and brands it" type of thing
[16:23] <sebsebseb> popey gets a free one I guess, but you  helped make it etc
[16:23] <sebsebseb> so that makes sense
[16:23] <popey> i already have one
[16:23] <sebsebseb> the BQ one?
[16:23] <popey> ali1234: i think that can happen too
[16:23] <popey> sebsebseb: yes
[16:23] <sebsebseb> oh I see just the last bits on the OS, and  company stuff
[16:24] <sebsebseb> henceFebrurary relaes
[16:24] <sebsebseb> I guess
[17:10] <gavyam> helllo UK!
[17:10] <gavyam> i love your country.
[17:11] <gavyam> but i have an issue with my linux.
[17:42] <sebsebseb>
[18:38] <awilkins> Anyone know a way of buying Google Play credit for your child's account without associating your paypal / credit card with their account?
[18:39] <brobostigon> how about one of those google play cards/tokens?
[18:39] <brobostigon> credit*
[18:39] <awilkins> Yeah. It just seems redonkulous that you have to go a physical shop and buy a printed piece of plastic
[18:40] <awilkins> And no, I'm not trusting one of those unapproved retailers who'll email you the code
[18:40] <brobostigon> i dont know if there is a way, to topup someones elses account.
[18:40] <awilkins> Not an obvious one
[18:42] <penguin42> brobostigon: Can you buy an electronic version of those google play cards
[18:42] <zmoylan-pi> a prepay credit card?
[18:43] <brobostigon> no idea penguin42
[18:43] <awilkins> Prepaid credit cards are not available in the UK AFAIK but I've not researched it
[18:43] <awilkins> Can't seem to buy electronic versions of the play gift cards
[18:44] <awilkins> Well, not from the approved source
[18:44] <awilkins> THere are guys who will mail you a code but I'd rather not give them my money
[18:44] <awilkins> Although you can buy them for Bitcoin...
[18:45] <zmoylan-pi> odd, they have prepay cards in ireland.  i thought the banks here would only risk them after the uk had done all the software writing :-)
[18:48]  * awilkins wonders if there's anything left on my Post Office Travel Card
[18:48] <awilkins> You can get prepaids
[18:48] <awilkins> Just never considered it
[18:48] <awilkins> Still a total PITA to get a £3.99 app to please my daughter
[18:49] <popey> stop bitching and go to the shop like a good dad
[18:50] <awilkins> :P
[18:51] <zmoylan-pi> can you gift apps on your account to her?
[18:52] <popey> no
[18:52] <popey> and if your child is under 13 they (or you) are in breach of the ToS anyway
[18:52] <popey> so trying to get Google to "fix" this is a non-starter
[18:53] <popey> the quick fix is logon to google play with your account on their device and install the app that way.
[18:53] <popey> or see if it's in the amazon store, and use that
[18:53] <awilkins> Yeah, even buying her a card and getting her to redeem it is outside the ToS
[18:53] <zmoylan-pi> it's a bit sad that it works so badly
[18:54] <awilkins> The quick fix is not really acceptable because the point is that I want to AVOID exposing my account to her tablet because it's a cesspool of free/evil apps
[18:54] <popey> you dont need to
[18:54] <popey> login as you, logout again
[18:56] <popey> i have found a number of paid apps are free in the amazon store
[18:56] <popey> also, there's a free app each day
[19:02] <awilkins> Blimey. Her tablet is sick.
[19:02] <awilkins> She went to the loo with it while we chatted
[19:03] <awilkins> It's dropped 80% of it's charge in that time
[19:03] <awilkins> She must have utterly thrashed the battery
[19:03] <penguin42> awilkins: Battery management seems to be complete black art; I've got a Nook that does that
[19:08] <popey> awilkins: what tablet?
[19:29] <awilkins> popey, hudl 1
[19:30] <popey> ah
[19:37] <czajkowski> popey: you about ?
[19:42] <popey> czajkowski: yo
[19:44] <czajkowski> popey: any idea what I'm doing or not doing here
[19:44] <czajkowski> I've a clean install
[19:44] <czajkowski> installed flash
[19:44] <czajkowski> on chromium most work like youtube no issues
[19:44] <czajkowski> but on some pages keeps saying please install flash
[19:45] <czajkowski> and also some drop memus do not work on chromium they appear blank but if you arrow down them they show
[19:50] <zmoylan-pi> don't a lot of youtube pages not use html5 and not flash?
[19:51] <zmoylan-pi> *now use
[19:52] <penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Only if you configure for it
[20:04] <mapp> what to wathc hm
[20:04] <mapp> watch
[20:53] <mapp> well that was rubbish crispy chilli chicken ..for 2  ..pah 2 5yr olds maybe
[20:55] <popey> czajkowski: dunno, i dont have flash installed anymore, gave up on it. you may need pepper flash installing though
[20:55] <popey> for chromium
[20:56] <popey> oops   http://download.cyanogenmod.org/
[21:01] <czajkowski> popey: okie cheers
[21:35] <foobarry> mouse just wandered out in the lounge
[21:35] <foobarry> and dog was sleeping on my lap
[21:35] <foobarry> think it escaped down a wobbly antenna socket that goes under floorboards
[21:36] <foobarry> wife wtching another adwul film
[21:37] <foobarry> afwul
[21:37] <foobarry> snow twilight and the hunstman
[21:47] <mapp> never even heard of it
[21:47] <mapp> im watching gone girl..bit long tho 2hr26 pfft


[00:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- tiagosh boiko rmescandon bfiller, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1319 Preparing packages
[00:58] <boiko> trainguards: can someone please trigger a rebuild of telephony-service/vivid/armhf on silo 1319?
[00:59] <robru> boiko: on it
[00:59] <boiko> robru: thanks!
[01:00] <robru> boiko: you're welcome
[01:02] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- tiagosh boiko rmescandon bfiller, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1319 Currently building (vivid/telephony-service). Failed to build (vivid/messaging-framework, xenial/messaging-framework, zesty/messaging-framework). Needs rebuild due to new commits (zesty/dialer-app, zesty/messaging-app). Pending binary packages (zesty/telephony-service). Successfully built (vivid/dialer-app, vivid/history-service, vivid/messaging-app, vivid/telepathy-ofon
[01:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- tiagosh boiko rmescandon bfiller, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1319 Preparing packages
[01:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- tiagosh boiko rmescandon bfiller, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1319 Failed to build (vivid/messaging-framework, xenial/messaging-framework, zesty/messaging-framework). Pending binary packages (vivid/dialer-app, vivid/messaging-app, vivid/telephony-service, xenial/dialer-app, xenial/messaging-app, zesty/dialer-app, zesty/messaging-app). Successfully built (vivid/history-service, vivid/telepathy-ofono, vivid/telepathy-qt, xenial/history-se
[01:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- tiagosh boiko rmescandon bfiller, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1319 Failed to build (vivid/messaging-framework, xenial/messaging-framework, zesty/messaging-framework). Successfully built (vivid/dialer-app, vivid/history-service, vivid/messaging-app, vivid/telepathy-ofono, vivid/telepathy-qt, vivid/telephony-service, xenial/dialer-app, xenial/history-service, xenial/messaging-app, xenial/telepathy-ofono, xenial/telepathy-qt, xenial/teleph
[05:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Wellark, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2119 Release pocket
[05:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- tedg mterry, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2129 Destination version missing from changelog (zesty/unity8). Failed to build (xenial/ubuntu-app-launch, xenial/url-dispatcher, zesty/unity-scopes-shell, zesty/url-dispatcher). Needs rebuild due to new commits (zesty/indicator-network). Ready to build (xenial/unity8-desktop-session, zesty/unity8-desktop-session). Successfully built (xenial/indicator-application, xenial/indicator-bluetooth, xeni
[05:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- pete-woods, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2073 Needs rebuild due to new commits (zesty/indicator-network). Successfully built (vivid/gmenuharness, vivid/indicator-network, xenial/gmenuharness, xenial/indicator-network, zesty/gmenuharness)
[05:56] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- marcustomlinson, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2110 Preparing packages
[06:01] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- morphis, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1632 Abandoning ticket
[06:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- artmello, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1874 Abandoning ticket
[06:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- marcustomlinson, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2110 Currently building (vivid/unity-scopes-shell, xenial/unity-scopes-shell). Failed to build (zesty/unity-scopes-shell). Successfully built (vivid/unity-scopes-api, xenial/unity-scopes-api, zesty/unity-scopes-api)
[06:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- marcustomlinson, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2110 Failed to build (zesty/unity-scopes-shell). Successfully built (vivid/unity-scopes-api, vivid/unity-scopes-shell, xenial/unity-scopes-api, xenial/unity-scopes-shell, zesty/unity-scopes-api)
[07:57] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- abeato, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2147 Generating diffs
[07:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- abeato, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2147 Diff missing (vivid/gst-plugins-bad0.10, vivid/qtmultimedia-opensource-src, xenial/qtmultimedia-opensource-src, zesty/qtmultimedia-opensource-src). Ready to build (vivid/qtmultimedia-opensource-src-gles, xenial/gst-plugins-bad0.10, xenial/qtmultimedia-opensource-src-gles, zesty/gst-plugins-bad0.10, zesty/qtmultimedia-opensource-src-gles)
[08:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- abeato, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2147 Ready to build (vivid/qtmultimedia-opensource-src-gles, xenial/gst-plugins-bad0.10, xenial/qtmultimedia-opensource-src-gles, zesty/gst-plugins-bad0.10, zesty/qtmultimedia-opensource-src-gles). Successfully built (vivid/gst-plugins-bad0.10, vivid/qtmultimedia-opensource-src, xenial/qtmultimedia-opensource-src, zesty/qtmultimedia-opensource-src)
[10:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2081 Proposed pocket (zesty/unity8). Release pocket (vivid/qmenumodel, vivid/unity8, xenial/qmenumodel, xenial/unity8, zesty/qmenumodel)


[15:01] <rbalint> o/
[15:01] <tribaal> o/
[15:01] <rbalint> tribaal, o/ :-)
[15:01] <tribaal> hi rbalint :)
[15:01] <juliank> intruder alert!
[15:01] <philroche> \o o/ \o
[15:01] <tribaal> hehe
[15:01] <rcj> o/
[15:02] <tribaal> hi juliank rcj philroche
[15:02]  * tribaal will listen quietly from the back of the class
[15:02]  * tribaal just wanted to say hi :)
[15:03] <bdmurray> tribaal: this is open to community members
[15:03]  * slangasek waves
[15:03] <cyphermox> o/
[15:03]  * philroche deletes all anti tribaal rants from his weekly update
[15:03] <tribaal> hi bdmurray slangasek cyphermox
[15:03] <tribaal> bdmurray: ah well then :) I'm here :)
[15:03] <Odd_Bloke> tribaal: o/
[15:03] <tribaal> Odd_Bloke: o/
[15:04] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[15:04] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jun 21 15:04:08 2018 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:04] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:04] <fginther> hey tribaal
[15:04] <tribaal> hi fginther
[15:04] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
[15:04] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke juliank fginther)
[15:04] <slangasek> infinity bdmurray sil2100 mwhudson rcj philroche slangasek fginther tdaitx doko cyphermox Odd_Bloke rbalint juliank xnox
[15:04] <slangasek> no infinity so bdmurray
[15:04] <bdmurray> submitted RT 112238 regarding retracers being unable to connect to cassandra
[15:04] <bdmurray> updated RT 112238 as it still wasn't working (sorted now)
[15:04] <bdmurray> emailed cassandra charm dev regarding issues with cassandra charm (twice)
[15:04] <bdmurray> tested latest version of the cassandra charm (multiple times)
[15:04] <bdmurray> modified daisy to kick kodi and mysql-workbench crashes to the end of line
[15:04] <bdmurray> reviewed mojo spec changes from IS (needed fixing, now merged)
[15:05] <bdmurray> tested initramfs-tools fix for LP: #1768230 (good)
[15:05] <bdmurray> submitted sru_workflow MP regarding time to release to -updates (needs review)
[15:05] <bdmurray> reviewed unowned packages from package to team mapping
[15:05] <bdmurray> irc discussion with powersj regarding possible expiration of KPI data
[15:05] <bdmurray> modified point release process to include updating u-r-u (mirrors list)
[15:05] <bdmurray> RT was submitted for the above
[15:05] <bdmurray> special SRU review of lxcfs for stgraber
[15:05] <bdmurray> talked with IS about RT 108968 - outstanding MP, got it merged
[15:05] <bdmurray> submitted RT re flipping four failed queue retracers to the regular queue due to backlog
[15:05] <bdmurray> submitted MP re package-subscribers (ubuntu-archive-tools) and dropping teams
[15:05] <bdmurray> identified and documented packages that would be abandoned by dropping teams
[15:05] <bdmurray> discussion with juliank regarding noawait trigger fixing
[15:05] <bdmurray> submitted mojo spec MP locking down cassandra version, skipping nagios check for rabbitmq (merged)
[15:05] <bdmurray> searching for more trigger changes to noawait
[15:05] <bdmurray> ✔ done
[15:06] <bdmurray> sil2100:
[15:07] <xnox> bah
[15:07] <bdmurray> rcj:
[15:07] <rcj> * cloud-image care and feeding
[15:08] <rcj> * eks image development
[15:08] <rcj> * work on bringing the AWS SSM agent snap back to Xenial AMIs
[15:08] <rcj> (done)
[15:08] <philroche> * Cloud image build system vanguard
[15:08] <philroche> * Minimal image verification
[15:08] <philroche> (done)
[15:09] <slangasek>  * short week; was off Mon/Tue
[15:09] <slangasek>  * spent some time looking into ghc armhf SIGBUSes to no avail
[15:09] <slangasek>  * discussions around cloud-init and locale settings (LP: #1134036)
[15:09] <slangasek>  * progress on being able to include openssh-server in the server seed (LP: #1576353)
[15:09] <slangasek>  * misc SRU and NEW review work
[15:09] <slangasek> (done)
[15:09] <slangasek> fginther:
[15:09] <fginther> * Out two days for holiday
[15:09] <fginther> * Transering some image builds to a new host
[15:09] <fginther> * Other build system work
[15:09] <fginther> ✔ done
[15:10] <tdaitx> Short week: 6/h day past week; 5 hours away this week
[15:10] <tdaitx> * JCK 8:
[15:10] <tdaitx>   - solved kerberos configuration for jck runtime
[15:10] <tdaitx>   - minimizing errors/failures for more reliable automation:
[15:10] <tdaitx>     - testing different window managers to fix UI tests
[15:10] <tdaitx>     - exploring different concurrency settings & test subsets
[15:10] <tdaitx> * OpenJDK 7 security update:
[15:10] <tdaitx>   - eclipse fails to start with zero vm in amd64/i386
[15:10] <tdaitx>   - trying to reproduce on armhf or powerpc where zerovm is the default
[15:10] <tdaitx> (done)
[15:10] <slangasek> doko:
[15:11] <cyphermox> no doko?
[15:11] <slangasek> cyphermox:
[15:11] <cyphermox> - Monday off
[15:11] <cyphermox> - shim-review: Cumulus
[15:11] <cyphermox> - review/discuss grub-efi cohabitation with grub-pc
[15:11] <cyphermox> - qemu / libvirt / edk2 work to ship preloaded MS certs and SecureBoot enabled
[15:11] <cyphermox> - netplan still blocked due to pandoc
[15:12] <cyphermox> - verifying SRUs: shim-signed, initramfs-tools
[15:12] <cyphermox> - systemd: reworking Shutdown= code
[15:12] <cyphermox> (done)
[15:12] <doko> sorry
[15:12] <Odd_Bloke> * Cloud images vanguard for the coming week
[15:12] <Odd_Bloke> * Fixed hg-git tests in cosmic to help unblock migrations
[15:12] <Odd_Bloke> * Mostly small bits and pieces otherwise
[15:12] <cpaelzer> FYI there was a qemu-efi-secureboot rejected in #ubuntu-release this morning - guess that is related cyphermox?
[15:12] <Odd_Bloke> (done)
[15:12] <cyphermox> cpaelzer: it is
[15:12] <rbalint> (short week)
[15:12] <rbalint> * released unattended-upgrades 1.3 fixing several regressions
[15:12] <rbalint> * uploaded unattended-upgrades bionic SRU fixing several regressions
[15:12] <rbalint> * uploads through Debian: meld
[15:13] <rbalint> * discussions about locking in dpkg/apt/u-u/etc.
[15:13] <rbalint> * discussions about WSL support in Ubuntupa
[15:13] <rbalint> * things i can't talk about
[15:13] <rbalint> (done)
[15:13] <doko> - gcc-5 security update for xenial
[15:13] <doko> - python 3.6.6 and 3.7.0 release candidates
[15:13] <doko> - ftbfs-report patches for combined archive reports, and a never built status
[15:13] <doko> - transitions, openmpi ready, r-base nearly ready, now reset again with new debian import
[15:13] <doko>   THIS work eats too much time
[15:13] <doko>   and some minor transitions ...
[15:13] <doko> - archive work, remove nbs binaries in proposed
[15:13] <doko> - openjdk meeting
[15:13] <doko> (done)
[15:13] <juliank> * {,python-}apt work:
[15:13] <juliank>   - Explained frontend locking implications for apt clients
[15:13] <juliank>   - Made python-apt use CI on salsa, and build API documentation on https://apt-team.pages.debian.net/python-apt/
[15:13] <juliank>   - Uploaded new apt snapshot to cosmic
[15:13] <juliank>   - Working on locking fixes for python-apt for unattended-upgrades
[15:13] <juliank>   - A magical new solver using pseudo-boolean optimization https://salsa.debian.org/apt-team/apt-solver-kalel/
[15:13] <juliank> * Fixed update-notifier bug 1641671 (xenial,artful,bionic); and verified it
[15:13] <juliank> * Fixed networkd-dispatcher bug 1772137 (bionic, cosmic)
[15:13] <juliank> * Further work on grub secure boot policy check (getting to the finish line)
[15:13] <juliank> * Setup yubikey
[15:13] <juliank> (done)
[15:15] <juliank> xnox:
[15:16] <xnox> is it
[15:16] <rcj> o/
[15:16] <juliank> yes
[15:16] <xnox> fixed python-oslo.vmware autopkgtest
[15:16] <xnox> finished finalrd implementation; sent to juliank for review; then will publish it to the team / publically
[15:16] <xnox> https://git.launchpad.net/finalrd/tree/finalrd.pod
[15:16] <xnox> preparing systemd sru for nvidia DRM & tmpfiles issues
[15:16] <xnox> done
[15:16] <slangasek> xnox: sweet :)
[15:17] <slangasek> doko:
[15:17] <juliank> slangasek: he already did
[15:17] <slangasek> oh
[15:17] <gaughen> slangasek, doko already went. He even shouted "THIS"
[15:17] <slangasek> yes
[15:17] <slangasek> yes and I even read it, but I didn't clear the flag in my brain NEVERMIND
[15:17] <slangasek> ok, any questions on status or about my sanity?
[15:18] <cyphermox> is it the same issue as your browser?
[15:18] <gaughen> ha
[15:18] <cyphermox> no Qs.
[15:19] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
[15:19] <slangasek> bdmurray: anything to discuss?
[15:19] <bdmurray> bug 1574351
[15:19] <gaughen> oh yes
[15:19] <bdmurray> Its been around for a bit and seems to still be an issue on bionic
[15:19] <juliank> eww
[15:19] <slangasek> interesting
[15:19] <slangasek> people are installing !amd64 libperl?
[15:20] <bdmurray> I thought I saw a bug about installing some printer drivers maybe.
[15:20] <slangasek> ah
[15:20] <slangasek> so that's "easy", just requires fixing the package build so that the changelog is compressed reproducibly
[15:20] <bdmurray> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/perl/+bug/1770682
[15:21] <slangasek> +1, worth fixing
[15:21] <bdmurray> Well that wasn't helpful. "Scanner driver failed to install"
[15:21]  * juliank looks at libperl in cosmic
[15:21] <juliank> it's broken too
[15:22] <bdmurray> okay, I'll card it for 18.04.1. What queue should it go in?
[15:22] <slangasek> bdmurray: gen distro
[15:22] <slangasek> bdmurray: I wouldn't consider it 18.04.1-critical however, if it's been outstanding for this long
[15:22] <bdmurray> ack
[15:22] <rcj> bug 1775219 bdmurray? I don't think the hack is appropriate so I'm looking to know if an error message change could be made.
[15:23] <bdmurray> rcj: for what release?
[15:23] <bdmurray> rcj: an error message change seems reasonable
[15:24] <rcj> cosmic to start but I'd hope for an SRU back to bionic and xenial.  All the cloud images clear out the package lists to save space so they're all affected until first refresh
[15:24] <rcj> bdmurray: thx
[15:24] <rcj> bug 1775291 (forgot to add coreutils until today)
[15:24] <bdmurray> rcj: And an apt update isn't run after install? I think a ubiquity install does an update on first boot.
[15:25] <rcj> bdmurray: apt update isn't run until first unattended upgrade window (otherwise we'd hammer cloud mirrors when people spin up many VMs)
[15:26] <bdmurray> rcj: okay, fair enough.
[15:26] <rcj> bug 1775291 (forgot to add coreutils until today)  This is an oddity seen on minimal images slangasek
[15:26] <bdmurray> rcj: What are you looking for there?
[15:26] <slangasek> rcj: is that because we're booting initramfsless?
[15:27] <slangasek> right, description confirms
[15:27] <slangasek> so, that's cool
[15:27] <bdmurray> xnox: Could you have a look at bug 1767299.
[15:27] <rcj> we've worked around it in our testing but it's odd behavior.  df says / is /dev/root but mount still says /dev/sda1.
[15:27] <slangasek> yeah
[15:27] <rcj> So when you 'df /dev/sda1' it gives you /dev
[15:27] <slangasek> that's a tough one
[15:27] <rcj> (closest match)
[15:28] <slangasek> so, I guess we should dig into it, we don't want initramfsless cloud images to have broken df behavior
[15:28] <rcj> yeah, and I was surprised 1) by the change in behavior and 2) by the mount/df difference
[15:28] <slangasek> I'm not sure if coreutils is the right way to fix it
[15:28] <gaughen> slangasek, is it a release blocker?
[15:28] <slangasek> I wouldn't say so
[15:28] <gaughen> k
[15:28] <rcj> sorry, I found it with 'df' so I opened on coreutils.  But brought it up here because I'm not sure where it should go.
[15:30] <slangasek> rcj: yeah, reasonable place to start
[15:30] <slangasek> so, probably worth taking into the backlog
[15:31] <slangasek> any other bugs?
[15:31] <bdmurray> bug 1771845
[15:32] <bdmurray> cyphermox: ^^
[15:36] <bdmurray> Okay, I'll create a card for that for 18.04.1
[15:36] <slangasek> oh is that the root cause? neat
[15:36] <bdmurray> xnox: bug 1651818 is assigned to you
[15:36] <bdmurray> someone also added a patch to that fwiw
[15:37] <slangasek> I've been aware of that bug and it warrants fixing, but also AFAIK it doesn't impact any configurations that you arrive at via our installer?
[15:38] <bdmurray> Ah, I see xnox's comment, #3, about that now.
[15:39] <bdmurray> So let's skip that one.
[15:39] <bdmurray> doko: are you aware of bug 1663280?
[15:42] <bdmurray> let's have infinity take a look at that one
[15:43] <bdmurray> slangasek: that's all I have
[15:43] <slangasek> ok
[15:43] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[15:43] <slangasek> anything else today?
[15:43] <bdmurray> I'll be out tomorrow
[15:45] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[15:45] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jun 21 15:45:27 2018 UTC.
[15:45] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-06-21-15.04.moin.txt
[15:45] <slangasek> thanks, all!
[15:45] <tribaal> see you all around :)
[15:45] <slangasek> tribaal: bye :)
[16:02] <gaughen> bye tribaal!
[16:07] <tribaal> bye gaughen!
[17:10] <chiluk> Hey hey community Council folks..  https://community.ubuntu.com/t/community-council-meeting-agendas-schedule/708
[17:19] <wxl> chiluk: yeah we've had some difficulties getting together and we've been discussing alternative methodologies but have not resolved it yet. is there a particular concern you have?
[17:19] <chiluk> Nope.. just saw it on my calendar, and thought I'd see what was going on.
[17:20] <wxl> chiluk: yeah i'll run something up the flagpole again. thanks for keeping watch! :)