[03:38] <dutchie> humphreybc: leave a message after the tone ;)
[03:38] <dutchie> humphreybc: I am now fast asleep, most likely, and am unlikely to be on IRC for a while. Email is probably your best bet to grab hold of me
[03:38] <dutchie> humphreybc: these are automated messages, hopefully produced as soon as you come online thanks to the postpone.pl irssi script
[03:38] <dutchie> humphreybc: pong, done, get a better time zone
[03:38] <humphreybc> ha!
[03:56] <humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: I'm going to start sending emails to authors soon
[03:57] <humphreybc> My laptop battery charger has given up the ghost... i'm hoping to get another one by friday. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't - it's working at the moment!
[03:57] <humphreybc> But if I disappear for a few days it's because it's really died and I haven't got another computer/charger
[05:14] <IlyaHaykinson> humphreybc: gotcha.
[05:49] <nisshh> hey dutcjie
[05:49] <nisshh> dutchie
[05:49] <nisshh> i found an error on the new planet website
[05:49] <nisshh> a broken link
[05:50] <nisshh> its the identica link at the top right of the main pagre
[06:13] <humphreybc> nisshh: how are you going with chapter 7?
[06:14] <nisshh> just fixing two bugs now
[06:14] <nisshh> and writing another section  or two
[06:14] <humphreybc> how far through are you?
[06:14] <humphreybc> could you commit what you have so far?
[06:14] <nisshh> no im just updating the wiki
[06:15] <humphreybc> okay but what about the actual chapter?
[06:15] <nisshh> ill will commit some stiff in about 15-20 minutes
[06:15] <nisshh> stuff*
[06:15] <humphreybc> cool. because we're really behind schedule, i'm going to email all the authors who are behind very soon and tell them to get some results or the chapters will be reassigned to other people
[06:15] <nisshh> yes ok.
[06:16] <humphreybc> cool, thanks
[06:16] <nisshh> ill give you a yell on here once iv committed
[06:16] <humphreybc> I don't want to sound mean or anything but I've been fairly nice and lenient so far, but now that we're getting to the business end of the project the results are lacking
[06:19] <humphreybc> The achievements of an organization are the results of the combined effort of each individual.
[06:19] <nisshh> yea i understand i would have had it done sooner if not for all the hold ups in real life
[06:20] <nisshh> also i wanted to ask you whether the current chapter 7 is too detailed or not enough detail
[06:21] <nisshh> iv had comments about both so im unsure which way to go
[06:21] <nisshh> and by what degree
[06:21] <humphreybc> i'll have a look now
[06:23] <humphreybc> I think that's a good level of detail, i'm not sure whether we need a section on "browsing the file system" however. I am aware that I wrote down the original table of contents, but that was just as a rough guide
[06:23] <humphreybc> perhaps that can be incorporated into "useful commands" - it doesn't take long to tell people about cd mv cp rm commands
[06:24] <nisshh> good point
[06:39] <nisshh> oh yea im going to download lucid and put it in virtualbox later too
[06:44] <humphreybc> neat
[06:44] <humphreybc> you should try "Test Drive"
[06:44] <humphreybc> http://launchpad.net/testdrive
[06:44] <nisshh> whats that?
[06:44]  * humphreybc just sent an email to the authors and CC'd to the team
[06:44] <nisshh> oh yea
[06:46] <humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: check your inbox, I just sent an email to the authors/team
[06:53] <godbyk> Ooh, humphreybc's cracking the whip! :-)
[06:53] <humphreybc> indeed
[06:53] <humphreybc> not on you though kevin!
[06:53] <humphreybc> you're doing a stellar job
[06:53]  * godbyk dances
[06:53] <humphreybc> haha
[06:54] <humphreybc> shame it can't be said about many of the authors though
[06:54] <humphreybc> (and yes I know that I haven't been a saint either! I still have to finish chapter 1)
[06:54] <godbyk> My part's pretty easy, though.  I'm not writing hundreds of lines of text.
[06:54] <humphreybc> true. But it's possible, I mean just look at IlyaHaykinson's chapter
[06:54] <humphreybc> he's written a tonne of stuff just by adding a little bit each day
[06:55] <humphreybc> i mean we have more team members than the flippin' ubuntu docs team now
[06:55] <humphreybc> ok wait we're a subteam of the ubuntu docs tea
[06:55] <humphreybc> team*
[06:56] <humphreybc> so our team members add to their team
[06:56] <humphreybc> we've practically doubles their number in that way hahaha
[06:56] <godbyk> wow
[06:57] <humphreybc> yeah but it's still only the same 4 or 5 people uploading to the branch
[06:57] <humphreybc> you, me, wolter, Ilya, joe and jamin every now and then
[06:57] <nisshh> *caugh* and me sometimes
[06:58] <humphreybc> the translations are going well but we've got a bottleneck now where a lot of translators are waiting on more content from the authors. =S
[06:58] <humphreybc> nisshh are you keeping stuff locally before committing?
[06:58] <nisshh> yes im about to push some stuff now
[06:58] <humphreybc> oh great
[06:59] <nisshh> its not much just yet but theres more to come later
[06:59] <humphreybc> that's good. will you have it completed by alpha? (remember, rough draft is all that's required for alpha)
[06:59] <humphreybc> oh and do you have a blog too?
[07:00] <nisshh> yes itll be done by alpha easily and no i dont have a blog
[07:01] <humphreybc> okay sweet :)
[07:03] <godbyk> Well, this is pathetic: reddit is offline and I'm not quite sure what to do with myself.
[07:03] <godbyk> I may have to actually do something constructive. :-/
[07:04] <humphreybc> haha
[07:04] <nisshh> lol
[07:05] <godbyk> I really should start working on my dissertation one of these days..
[07:05] <godbyk> Maybe I'll clean up my office.
[07:05] <godbyk> (Gah! See what I've been reduced to?!)
[07:06] <nisshh> hehe
[07:10] <nisshh> ok iv pushed my changes
[07:10] <humphreybc> nisshh: cool
[07:10] <nisshh> just give it a sec to update on LP
[07:10] <humphreybc> everyone, I've just replied to Thorsten's email about a whole bunch of design/style stuff. I CC'd to the list, as always. I'd appreciate some discussion from the team and feedback on mine (and his) suggestions
[07:11] <nisshh> ok
[07:13] <humphreybc> cool, mind if i give some feedback?
[07:13] <nisshh> nope go for it
[07:14] <humphreybc> okay so it's mainly niggly stuff
[07:14] <humphreybc> instead of using linux, use "Ubuntu"
[07:14] <humphreybc> we're trying to de-associate Linux and Ubuntu
[07:14] <humphreybc> Linux has many bad connotations
[07:14] <humphreybc> see the style guide for more info on the reasoning behind that
[07:14] <nisshh> also in LP fix committed is when the bugfix in in the main branch and fix released is when alpha release actually comes around
[07:14] <humphreybc> ahh righto
[07:15] <nisshh> ok good points
[07:15] <nisshh> any feedback on changes i just made
[07:15] <humphreybc> Windows should probably have a capital W, and is bash uppercase or all lowercase? I'm fairly sure it's lowercase... not 100% sure though
[07:15] <nisshh> ?
[07:15] <humphreybc> i don't think so no
[07:16] <humphreybc> also it might be worth adding in "temporarily" to this sentence: "By using sudo, you can (temporarily) borrow these privilages...
[07:16] <humphreybc> and it might pay to mention the 15 minute sudo timer
[07:17] <nisshh> yes i thought of that but havent decided where to put it on yet
[07:17] <humphreybc> although that might be moving slightly into the security chapter
[07:17] <nisshh> in sorry
[07:17] <nisshh> is there a sudo section in the security chapter?
[07:17] <nisshh> because there should be
[07:18] <humphreybc> nope
[07:18] <humphreybc> i don't think so
[07:18] <humphreybc> also just explain that when the computer wants root privileges (ie, installing software etc) it will prompt you for your user password. Reiterate that this is _for the best_ otherwise people will (and do) liken it to Vista's UAC
[07:19] <nisshh> yes ok.
[07:19] <IlyaHaykinson_> maybe instead of root we can say whatever Ubuntu says?
[07:19] <humphreybc> so yeah, I think most of it is just making sure the user fully understands the permissions/sudo system in Ubuntu, what it means for them, and how it protects their system
[07:19] <humphreybc> but other than that, cool
[07:20] <humphreybc> keep up the good work :)
[07:21] <nisshh> cheers im gonna make some more changes now
[07:21] <humphreybc> and it's probably better to commit anything you change instead of keeping it locally, that way we don't freak out when we see no progress being made when actually you've got it all on your computer :D
[07:21] <humphreybc> regarding the niggly things, technically they don't matter at the moment because it's the editors job to pick them up. And alpha is supposed to be just a draft. *But* I am a bit of a perfectionist, so I'm likely to pick up stuff like that
[07:24] <IlyaHaykinson_> nisshh: re your note at the bottom -- Currently: grep, uname, lspci, ifconfig and wget
[07:24] <IlyaHaykinson_> i think some of these are too obscure for a new user guide
[07:24] <nisshh> which ones?
[07:25] <IlyaHaykinson_> ifconfig (that's not even recommended anymore, you're supposed to use "ip addr list" i think)
[07:25] <IlyaHaykinson_> uname
[07:25] <IlyaHaykinson_> wget
[07:25] <IlyaHaykinson_> i think we need to teach people things like "ls" and "cd" and "mv" and "df" an d"ps"
[07:26] <IlyaHaykinson_> like totally elementary commands :)
[07:26] <nisshh> yes humphreybc and me were just talking abou that
[07:26] <IlyaHaykinson_> like see http://fosswire.com/post/2007/8/unixlinux-command-cheat-sheet/
[07:26] <IlyaHaykinson_> things that are on a cheat-sheet or otherwise show up in short new user references are the best, in my opinion
[07:26] <nisshh> also pwd should be in there i think too
[07:26] <IlyaHaykinson_> yeah, those were just examples
[07:27] <IlyaHaykinson_> i think lspci doesn't really belong here.
[07:27] <nisshh> ok
[07:27] <IlyaHaykinson_> maybe in some troubleshooting chapter or whatever, and even then only maybe :)
[07:27] <nisshh> ill change that
[07:27] <IlyaHaykinson_> yeah. assume you're teaching this to a grandparent.
[07:27] <nisshh> yep
[07:27] <IlyaHaykinson_> sweet
[07:28] <IlyaHaykinson_> and thx for making progress. i totally appreciate this!
[07:28] <IlyaHaykinson_> also, i actually highly recommend putting up a wiki page with the chapter outline
[07:28] <IlyaHaykinson_> to the subsection level
[07:28] <IlyaHaykinson_> i find it much easier to organize thoughts that way, and also increase visibility of the chapter before it's written
[07:29] <nisshh> no problem
[07:29] <nisshh> i would have done so sooner but iv been extremely busy lately
[07:29] <nisshh> but not so much now
[07:29] <IlyaHaykinson_> cool!
[07:30] <nisshh> yea, i havent even had time to work on my own project
[07:30] <IlyaHaykinson_> Does anyone know if there's a way for people who don't know bazaar to contribute, that's not "email documents to Ilya"?
[07:30] <IlyaHaykinson_> i've got a few writers who are just putting things together in open office...
[07:30] <IlyaHaykinson_> cause they don't feel familiar enough with bazaar...
[07:30] <humphreybc> have you tried bzr-gtk?
[07:31] <nisshh> hmm thats a problem
[07:31] <humphreybc> Jamin has made a guide for it
[07:31] <humphreybc> and he was thinking using Lernid to teach new authors how to use it (he's got a slideshow etc all set up)
[07:31] <humphreybc> I had a chat to Jono Bacon and all we'd have to do was create our own "event"
[07:31] <humphreybc> perhaps "Ubuntu Manual Learning Day?"
[07:32] <nisshh> they dont want to learn how this all works?
[07:32] <IlyaHaykinson_> humphreybc: hm, a slideshow etc may be nice.
[07:32] <humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson perhaps they could write it in openoffice/plain text and we could port it across to LaTeX in the meantime.
[07:32] <IlyaHaykinson_> yeha, that's what i was offering.
[07:32] <nisshh> wow, you just said what i was going to say
[07:32] <IlyaHaykinson_> but the guy wants to edit/post his own things
[07:32] <humphreybc> bzr isn't hard
[07:32] <IlyaHaykinson_> instead of routing it through me
[07:32] <humphreybc> bzr-gtk is even easier
[07:33] <humphreybc> talk to jamin about it, he can give you the slides etc on how to use bzr-gtk
[07:33] <nisshh> yea but they still have to learn latex and setup ssh and so on
[07:33] <IlyaHaykinson_> cool.
[07:33] <humphreybc> true
[07:33] <humphreybc> ssh?
[07:33] <humphreybc> what for?
[07:33] <nisshh> too much for a noob to handle
[07:33] <IlyaHaykinson_> or, better yet... i can offer to him to edit on some wiki subpage
[07:33] <humphreybc> We have some fairly new users on the team at the moment and they're doing okay.
[07:33] <humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson that's a better idea
[07:34] <nisshh> bzr uses a protocol called bzr+ssh to push and pull to LP
[07:34] <humphreybc> After alpha we can hold a Learning day and get some of the main team members to hold sessions in lernid on stuff like style, latex code, editing, bzr etc
[07:34] <humphreybc> nisshh: but the end user doesn't need to know that? I don't even know that or use anything to do with ssh for bzr
[07:34] <nisshh> cool ill help out with that
[07:35] <humphreybc> but right now we really need to get the content drafted
[07:35] <nisshh> hehe, do you have an ssh key on LP?
[07:35] <IlyaHaykinson_> ok, wiki it is for now.
[07:35] <nisshh> yep i agree
[07:36] <humphreybc> oh nisshh forgot about ssh keys
[07:36] <humphreybc> i set mine up ages ago
[07:36] <nisshh> yea thats what i was refferring too
[07:36] <nisshh> same but for a new user its a complex task
[07:37] <humphreybc> that is true
[07:38] <humphreybc> well after alpha we might have a bit more time to think about teaching new and current contributors
[07:38] <humphreybc> especially since godbyk is doing so much work on latex that wasn't scheduled till beta!
[07:38] <humphreybc> all praise godbyk
[07:39] <godbyk> heh
[07:39] <IlyaHaykinson_> is there a simple way to get a version of Lucid up in a virtual environment right now?
[07:39] <nisshh> oh, godbyk, your my hero!
[07:39] <IlyaHaykinson_> i have one that i manually installed, but i meant even simpler than that?
[07:40] <nisshh> not really
[07:40] <humphreybc> test drive!
[07:40] <humphreybc> http://launchpad.net/testdrive
[07:41] <IlyaHaykinson_> er, but that's for people who already have ubuntu?
[07:41] <nisshh> testdrive is only available IN lucid
[07:41] <IlyaHaykinson_> i meant more like for ppl on windows or macos...
[07:41] <nisshh> not when you first install it
[07:42] <nisshh> no one say wubi
[07:42] <nisshh> or ill virtually kick you
[07:42] <nisshh> in the face...
[07:42] <IlyaHaykinson_> *sigh* ok, i think i'll just patch up my virtualbox, zip it up, and give it to the writer in question
[07:43] <nisshh> cant he just download and run the iso through VB
[07:43] <nisshh> >
[07:43] <nisshh> ?
[07:43] <nisshh> i pushed some more changes to LP too
[07:44] <IlyaHaykinson_> nisshh: i'm hoping to simplify things for her.
[07:44] <IlyaHaykinson_> and any other authors who may be good at technical writing, but not as good at linux
[07:45] <humphreybc> hmm
[07:45] <humphreybc> yeah just export your vbox install, burn it to a DVD and wallah
[07:45] <nisshh> yea ok
[07:46] <humphreybc> I could ask for help in the forums or on omgubuntu.co.uk but i don't really want to give the impression to the public that we're struggling
[07:46] <nisshh> no you dont
[07:47] <nisshh> that would be bad
[07:47] <humphreybc> exackery
[07:47] <nisshh> lol, is that a word?
[07:47] <IlyaHaykinson_> i think we don't need to ask for help in a "we're struggling" way, but instead more like "calling ubuntu users with writing experience to join the team" type of a thing
[07:48] <humphreybc> hmm
[07:48] <humphreybc> well I can talk to Joey from omgubuntu and ask him to do a wee blog
[07:49] <nisshh> yea, anyway im going to go eat something, and polish my car all probably push some more stuff to LP later tonight, cyas.
[07:49] <humphreybc> martin can post a blog on Planet Ubuntu if I ask him
[07:49] <humphreybc> polish your car? nice.
[07:49] <nisshh> yes i just painted it
[07:49] <humphreybc> oh wow, nice
[07:49] <humphreybc> what sort of car?
[07:49] <nisshh> corolla
[07:49] <nisshh> toyota
[07:49] <humphreybc> is it awesome?
[07:50] <nisshh> totally!
[07:50] <humphreybc> haha
[07:50] <nisshh> hehe cyas then.
[07:53] <humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson_ :
[07:53] <humphreybc> doctormo: Well no, I mean start by getting your people to write a blog post every day, get them to write about something that could go into their chapter and try and take an existing piece of writing and improve on it.
[07:53] <humphreybc> (20:52:10) humphreybc: but some more experienced authors would be a godsend
[07:53] <humphreybc> (20:52:39) doctormo: I can tell you now that there are no such people.
[07:53] <humphreybc> (20:53:03) doctormo: No technical writers who are willing to jump into writing. Either that or their already all in the docs team.
[07:53] <humphreybc> (20:53:13) doctormo: I know because learning team has been fishing for a while now.
[07:54] <humphreybc> blog posts sound like a good idea
[07:54] <humphreybc> to the planet
[07:54] <humphreybc> then we can point newbies to the planet
[07:54] <humphreybc> for the meantime anyway
[07:55] <IlyaHaykinson_> blog posts are nice...
[07:55] <IlyaHaykinson_> but i think actual chapter writing takes priority over getting ppl to set up blogs, adding them to the planet, etc.
[07:58] <humphreybc> indeed
[07:58] <humphreybc> but for those that already have blogs and the planet
[07:58] <humphreybc> me, dutchie, you?
[07:58] <humphreybc> etc
[07:59] <humphreybc> we could do that
[08:06] <IlyaHaykinson_> true.
[08:20] <thorwil> good morning! :)
[08:26] <humphreybc> hi thorwil, i sent you an email recently
[08:26] <thorwil> humphreybc: just read it
[08:27] <humphreybc> cool beans
[08:28] <thorwil> humphreybc: would you be so kind and announce your decision regarding the design team on the list?
[08:28] <humphreybc> yup i can do that
[08:28] <IlyaHaykinson_> argh, i killed my vbox install of lucid. :(
[08:28] <humphreybc> damn how'd you manage that?
[08:29] <thorwil> humphreybc: i might send a mail regarding audience and so on to the list, and i think this will work better after an introduction
[08:29] <humphreybc> sure
[08:29] <IlyaHaykinson_> ah, wait. didn't kill it. just needed a hard reset
[08:30] <humphreybc> thorwil: current team members?
[08:30] <humphreybc> (of the design team)
[08:30] <humphreybc> and what's your full name thorwil?
[08:31] <thorwil> humphreybc: vish and wolter said yes, no reply from kolorguild (David Nel), yet
[08:31] <thorwil> humphreybc: Thorsten Wilms
[08:32] <humphreybc> thorwil: email sent
[08:32] <thorwil> ty!
[08:34] <thorwil> humphreybc: you have a one author per chapter policy?
[08:34] <humphreybc> nope
[08:35]  * thorwil read Crunch time
[08:35] <humphreybc> I don't think I said one author per chapter
[08:36] <thorwil> no, you didn't. that's why i asked ;)
[08:37] <humphreybc> gotcha
[08:45] <nisshh> nisshh is back and hes awesome!
[08:46] <nisshh> humphreybc: can you explain to me what this new planet thing is on your website, i dont really get what it does.
[08:49] <IlyaHaykinson_> virtualbox exports as .vmdk files?
[08:49] <IlyaHaykinson_> isn't that a vmware format?
[08:59] <humphreybc> nisshh: you know planet ubuntu right?
[08:59] <nisshh> yes
[08:59] <humphreybc> nisshh: do you play lacrosse by any chance?
[09:00] <nisshh> i have before
[09:00] <humphreybc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_McNish
[09:00] <humphreybc> anyway, so Planet Ubuntu Manual is just our own version of Planet Ubuntu
[09:00] <humphreybc> it's hosted on dutchie's VPS and we're using my domain name
[09:01] <nisshh> right so you mean it sort of combines all those planet blogs together?
[09:01] <humphreybc> nope it just aggregates the blogs of a few of the manual people, like myself, dutchie, godbky etc
[09:01] <humphreybc> you can see the list of people on the right
[09:01] <humphreybc> that's why I asked if you had a blog
[09:02] <humphreybc> brb getting junk food
[09:02] <nisshh> kk
[09:03] <nisshh> so all the posts at that domain name are from all the aggregated blogs?
[09:28] <humphreybc> yep
[09:43] <nisshh> are ok
[09:43] <nisshh> ah
[09:43] <nisshh> now i get it
[09:48] <om26er> How can I help ubuntu manual project
[09:50] <thorwil> hi om26er. you might want to have a look at the "Contributions" section at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual
[09:51] <om26er> thanx thorwil
[12:30] <thorwil> where do i get ccicons.sty from?
[12:35] <thorwil> i found a ccicons package, but no .sty in there
[12:35] <thorwil> godbyk: hi! ^ ?
[12:35] <godbyk> thorwil: Hey.
[12:35] <godbyk> thorwil: The package is on the bzr repository already in the pkgs dir.
[12:36] <godbyk> if you cd to the pkgs dir, you can run ./install-pkgs.sh and it'll take care if it for ya.
[12:37] <thorwil> godbyk: ah, thanks. you might want to add that to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Help
[12:38] <godbyk> thorwil: Ah, will do.
[12:39] <thorwil> godbyk: afaik latex offers no help to achieve grid alignment? (i mean all baselines of all text being on the same heights on every page)
[12:39] <godbyk> thorwil: Ugh.. LaTeX at its core is rather anti-grid.  But when I get around to designing the layout, it'll be semi-grid-based.
[12:40] <godbyk> (LaTeX has this concept of 'glue', which allows white space to stretch and shrink to best fit the page.)
[12:41] <thorwil> sounds scary
[12:43] <godbyk> It's pretty handy when you're using lots of mathematics and whatnot, but not so great when you're trying to typeset a non-math book on a grid.
[12:52] <godbyk> I'm messing around with translations at the moment..
[12:52] <godbyk> I think they're gonna be a bit of a pain.
[12:52] <godbyk> Each language may have its own set of fonts.
[13:01] <thorwil> godbyk: there seem to be 2 tones of red, "Ubuntu Philosophy" is darker than "The Ubuntu Promise"
[13:02] <godbyk> Each of the section levels is a different color, and the red used to highlight the user input (for the time being) may also be a different shade.
[13:02] <godbyk> I didn't pick the colors. That was before my time.
[13:02] <godbyk> They will probably change/disappear when I get around to redesigning the thing.
[13:04] <thorwil> godbyk: hope so. this rather subtle color differences of items that are far away from each other look like a mistake
[13:04] <godbyk> Yeah, I'm not sure where the colors originated.
[13:04] <godbyk> They may have been randomly selected.
[13:05] <thorwil> godbyk: the switch from serif for 1st level to sans and back to serifs for text seems a bit odd
[13:05] <godbyk> yeah, selecting fonts is currently on the top of my list.
[13:05] <godbyk> I'm trying to find some great fonts that are open and that support the languages we're translating to.
[13:07] <thorwil> godbyk: guess that's limiting enough, so i will leave that to you ;)
[13:07] <godbyk> gee, thanks!
[13:07] <godbyk> ;-)
[13:07] <godbyk> it's quite a challenge, unfortunately.
[13:08] <godbyk> most fonts seem to target only one or two scripts.
[13:08] <godbyk> so we'll probably have different fonts for different languages.
[13:08] <thorwil> fun
[13:08] <godbyk> loads
[13:09] <godbyk> they have to be open because if they're not, then only authors who have those fonts will be able to compile the pdf.
[13:09] <thorwil> godbyk: i'd try to make the lowest level headline have the same size as body text (if that isn't already the case)
[13:10] <thorwil> given color and spacing, you don't even need bold there
[13:11] <godbyk> yeah, that'll all change after I've found the typefaces.
[13:11] <thorwil> godbyk: where do i have to look for the margins (including those for margin notes)?
[13:12] <thorwil> godbyk: is the current page layout based on even divisions or proportions?
[13:12] <godbyk> In the ubuntu-manual.cls file, look for the \geometry commands.
[13:12] <godbyk> thorwil: Yes, but the letter and A4 paper sizes are using completely different proportions for the margins.
[13:12] <godbyk> (And I'm not fond of either at the moment.)
[13:13] <godbyk> That'll be changing too.
[13:13] <godbyk> Basically, everything's up for redesign. :-)
[13:13] <thorwil> godbyk: good. i'd choose one system and apply it to both letter and a4
[13:14] <godbyk> Who was it that was going to print the title page a while back?  Did they ever report what their printer's margins were?
[13:15] <godbyk> We should probably figure out what those margins generally are so we make sure all our material falls inside them.
[13:15] <godbyk> (If we're expecting people to print this on their own printers.)
[13:17] <thorwil> godbyk: i think it's between 4 and 10 mm, but yeah, i'll have a look f i find some official numbers
[13:20] <thorwil> godbyk: what's marginparsep?
[13:21] <godbyk> That's the horizontal space between the margin notes and the main body text.
[13:28] <godbyk> Well, I'm off to bed.  I'll probably be back on in 8-9 hours.
[14:24] <maxolase1squad> Where is the current download?  I don't see it in the wiki.
[17:19] <ianto> Anyone here?
[17:19] <ianto> I'm writing for my chapter section and I'm wonder if it is possible to write a hyperlink to a previous section in the Installation chapter or would this break the formatting of the book?
[19:05] <sebsebseb>
[20:18] <dutchie> ianto: use the \chaplink or \ref commands
[21:59] <pererik87> Full disks mean no more PPAs, and no more uploads to PPAs. We’d like to add some more disks, but we can’t actually do that soon enough for a bunch of complicated reasons.
[21:59] <pererik87> Instead, we’ve decided that we’re going to remove all of the source files for any uploads that are:
[21:59] <pererik87> in PPAs
[21:59] <pererik87> not published, that is, deleted or superseded
[21:59] <pererik87> have been not published for over seven days
[21:59] <pererik87> Note that we already delete the binaries for such uploads.
[21:59] <pererik87> We are going to delete these old files this Wednesday, January 27th. We’re really sorry that we are announcing it so close to the actual event — we know it’s a hassle.
[21:59] <pererik87> qquote: launchpad
[21:59]  * dutchie blinks
[22:02] <dutchie> pererik87: was that deliberate?
[22:08] <pererik87> wrong window:P
[22:08] <dutchie> thought as much


[00:34] <JanC> SSH might not be using PAM...
[00:34] <JanC> seems like Karl is gone though  :)
[00:34] <sarnold> yeah :(