[12:34] <BrianHechinger[m> Good news: I got the Native Instruments software working
[12:35] <BrianHechinger[m> Bad news: this stuff is rough on causing xruns
[12:38] <BrianHechinger[m> jack started with jack_control so no pulse, ardour, etc just the audio device and Maschine and I get minimal xruns at 256/3.
[12:39] <BrianHechinger[m> I mean, that's not terrible but I can run 64/3 all day long with zero xrun and 16/2 if I stop a bunch of stuff and keep the system idle.


[07:09] <linux_unix-10> hello!
[07:09] <linux_unix-10> After much pain, I've finally got the right Nvidia driver installed. But my touchscreen doesn't work anymore! What can I do?
[11:04] <Muftware> I have just installed ubuntu 16.04, but there is some problem with software centre. Its showing only the installed softwares and i m not able to install any other software
[13:50] <LinDol> hi all


[00:39] <alexisb> wallyworld, looks like curtis did open a bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1629985
[00:39] <mup> Bug #1629985: TestNewModelConfig can't connect to the local LXD server (lxd 2.3) <ci> <lxd> <regression> <unit-tests> <xenial> <yakkety> <juju:Triaged by wallyworld> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1629985>
[00:39] <alexisb> I assigned it to you
[00:39] <wallyworld> ok
[00:39] <wallyworld> alexisb: but it should be assigned to tycho
[00:39] <wallyworld> as it is his pr
[00:40] <wallyworld> i assume he will be the one landing the fix
[00:40] <alexisb> tych0, are you around to land you PR after wallyworld reviews?
[00:40] <wallyworld> i am testing it and also reviewing
[00:48] <thumper> https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6372 anyone?
[00:48] <thumper> I'm off to give the dog a quick walk while the sun is shining
[01:04] <mup> Bug #1629113 opened: Juju deploy wordpress fails with MaaS <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1629113>
[02:09] <menn0> thumper: remind me how to see the running workers/goroutines in a controller agent?
[02:09] <menn0> using the developer-mode stuff
[02:10] <thumper> juju-goroutines
[02:11] <menn0> thumper: thanks
[03:29] <wallyworld> axw: howdy, got time for a hangout about credentials?
[03:30] <axw> wallyworld: yup, just give me a minute please
[03:30] <wallyworld> sure
[03:31] <axw> wallyworld: see you in 1:1?
[03:31] <wallyworld> yup
[04:37] <menn0> wallyworld: I *think* I've got a fix for the problem of Juju taking ages to recover when the primary controller node goes away
[04:37] <wallyworld> oh stop it, now you're just teasing
[04:39] <menn0> wallyworld: with the fix in place the cluster recovers (i.e. apiservers back up) in under 30s
[04:39] <menn0> and a good chunk of that time is mongodb arranging a new primary
[04:39] <wallyworld> wow, finally!
[04:39] <wallyworld> menn0: was it a mgo fix?
[04:39] <menn0> the fix is hacky at the moment so I won't be proposing it until tomorrow
[04:39] <menn0> nope
[04:40] <menn0> it's around HackLeadership and the handling of state in the apiserver
[04:40] <wallyworld> joy
[04:40] <menn0> the fix also means that the apiserver no longer needs it's own copy of state
[04:40] <menn0> i'm going to help out at home for a bit now and tidy up the fix later on this evening
[04:40] <wallyworld> sgtm
[09:08] <babbageclunk> Anyone else using lxd 2.3?
[09:13] <babbageclunk> I'm getting weirdly slow juju bootstraps with it - not sure whether it's me or them.
[09:49] <babbageclunk> mwhudson: ping?
[09:49] <mwhudson> babbageclunk: mmf
[09:50]  * babbageclunk isn't sure whether that means you're ready to receive or not.
[09:50] <mwhudson> babbageclunk: it means i should be in bed but i'm not so be quick :)
[09:50] <babbageclunk> mwhudson: Ok! :)
[09:51] <babbageclunk> mwhudson: I'm trying to find a memory leak in Juju
[09:51] <babbageclunk> mwhudson: I found something that purports to view heapdumps, but it needs a patch to Go.
[09:52] <babbageclunk> mwhudson: I was looking at the patch before I tried building it myself and saw a TODO with your name on it.
[09:52] <mwhudson> babbageclunk: ok
[09:52] <mwhudson> heh
[09:52] <mwhudson> uh oh
[09:52] <mwhudson> where is it?
[09:53] <babbageclunk> mwhudson: So I thought, "Hey, I wonder whether he knows anything about viewing heap dumps."
[09:53] <babbageclunk> https://github.com/tombergan/goheapdump/blob/master/runtime.heapdump.go.patch
[09:53] <mwhudson> oh
[09:54] <babbageclunk> I've tried a couple of things so far but not managed to get anything to work.
[09:54] <mwhudson> that's boring, basically if you have a go program used shared libraries you only get part of the info
[09:55] <mwhudson> babbageclunk: sorry don't really know anything, i'm afraid
[09:55] <babbageclunk> ok, thanks anyway! Sorry to keep you up!
[09:56] <mwhudson> babbageclunk: i wonder why he hasn't sent that patch upstream
[09:56] <mwhudson> babbageclunk: no worries, sorry i couldn't help
[09:57] <babbageclunk> mwhudson: Well, I think it's something that's still in flux. Found it from here: https://github.com/golang/go/issues/16410
[09:58] <mwhudson> babbageclunk: heh i guess i got all the mails for that issue but just blanked on them :-)
[09:58]  * mwhudson goes to bed
[11:34] <perrito666> morning all
[11:34] <babbageclunk> perrito666: o/
[11:53] <mup> Bug #1630123 opened: OpenStack base 45 not being deployed with Juju GUI <juju-core:New> <juju-gui:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1630123>
[12:27] <perrito666> how do I create a model with a different owner from the cli, does annyone know?
[12:50] <natefinch> cmars, rogpeppe1: I'm having trouble understanding the proper behavior of logout/login got a minute to talk?
[12:52] <cmars> natefinch, not at the moment. i may free at 10:30 central
[12:52] <natefinch> cmars: ok
[13:05] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: what's up?
[13:08] <natefinch> rogpeppe1: I'm confused as to the expected behavior of login/logout
[13:09] <natefinch> rogpeppe1: if I log out of a GCE environment that I created, is juju supposed to prompt for a password when I log back in?
[13:11] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: s/environment/model/ ?
[13:11] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: this is without an identity-url configured, right?
[13:11] <natefinch> rogpeppe1: yeah, I just bootstrapped with the normal defaults to google
[13:12] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: what did the logout command print?
[13:12] <natefinch> rogpeppe1: and yes, I guess it's logging into the modelk?  or the controller? I'm not sure
[13:13] <natefinch> rogpeppe1: $ juju login
[13:13] <natefinch> username: admin
[13:13] <natefinch> You are now logged in to "gce" as "admin@local".
[13:13] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: you always log into a controller, although you may choose an API connection specific to a model when you log in
[13:14] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: what did the logout command print?
[13:14] <natefinch> rogpeppe1: $ juju logout
[13:14] <natefinch> Logged out. You are still logged into 1 controller.
[13:14] <natefinch> (after changing my password)
[13:15] <natefinch> rogpeppe1: the bug I'm working on says I should be prompted for my password when I log back in, but I'm not sure when that's the case and when it's not, since I know there's some macaroon stuff...
[13:15] <natefinch> rogpeppe1: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1621375
[13:15] <mup> Bug #1621375: "juju logout" should clear cookies for the controller <juju:In Progress by natefinch> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1621375>
[13:15] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: after logging out, what do you see in accounts.yaml ?
[13:15] <natefinch> rogpeppe1:   gce:
[13:15] <natefinch>     user: admin@local
[13:15] <natefinch>     last-known-access: superuser
[13:17] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: hmm, that's odd - it should have deleted the entry
[13:17] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: although it doesn't have any password, which is also odd
[13:17] <natefinch> rogpeppe1: where is the code that controls the password etc?  I can't seem to find it
[13:18] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: what does "juju switch" print?
[13:18] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: inside the jujuclient package
[13:18] <natefinch> rogpeppe1: at the time, gce was my default controller... I have since messed with things
[13:19]  * natefinch rebootstraps to do more testing
[13:19] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: so if you do: "juju switch gce; juju logout", so you still have gce entry in your accounts.yaml ?
[13:19] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: you shouldn't need to re-bootstrap
[13:19] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: this is a client-side problem AFAICS
[13:20] <natefinch> rogpeppe1: yes, I just couldn't find the client side code :)
[13:20] <natefinch> rogpeppe1: also, I wasn't clear on when it should prompt and when it shuld not, based on macaroons and all that jazz
[13:22] <natefinch> rogpeppe1: where's the code that produces the password prompt?  some naive greps under jujuclient isn't finding much
[13:25] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: after it's told you it's logged in, can you actually use the connection (e.g. use juju status, juju list-models, etc?)
[13:26] <natefinch> rogpeppe1: yep
[13:26] <natefinch> rogpeppe1: just tried it
[13:27] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: ISTR there's a "local login" macaroon created somewhere, and it looks as if logout is failing to delete it
[13:27] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: axw is the man to talk to
[13:28] <natefinch> rogpeppe1: k, thanks
[13:32] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: it's almost certainly in the cookie jar
[13:33] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: if you get logout to remove all cookies in the cookie jar associated with the controller, it'll probably work
[13:34] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: FWIW the password prompting is hooked up in modelcmd.NewAPIContext (environschema.v1/form is the thing that actually does the prompting)
[13:36] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: hmm, actually i'm not sure about that
[13:41] <alexisb> babbageclunk, ping
[13:45] <natefinch> rogpeppe1: ok, thanks, I'll look at that....
[13:46] <natefinch> rogpeppe1: totally would not expect a function called NewAPIContext to do login stuff
[13:49] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: actually, the user password stuff is done in api/authentication
[13:50] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: in Visitor.VisitWebPage
[13:51] <natefinch> rogpeppe1: yeah, I was just looking there.  Again.. VisitWebPage is not a function I would expect to prompt for a password via the command line :/
[13:51] <mup> Bug #1630123 changed: OpenStack base 45 not being deployed with Juju GUI <juju-gui:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1630123>
[13:51] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: yeah, history plays a role in that name
[13:52] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: i think "Interact" might be a better name really
[13:56] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: i'm going for lunch now
[13:57] <natefinch> rogpeppe1: kk
[13:57] <natefinch> rogpeppe1: thanks for the help
[13:57] <rogpeppe1> natefinch: np
[13:59] <voidspace> mgz: pingg
[13:59] <mgz> voidspace: yo
[14:00] <voidspace> mgz: I need help with vsphere and the company vpn
[14:00] <voidspace> mgz: ah, it's standup time
[14:00] <mgz> I'm in standup for fast bandwidth options too
[14:00] <voidspace> mgz: cool
[14:00] <mgz> happy to hang on after
[14:01] <perrito666> oh, look at that, you cant add-model for a user other than you when you have add-model
[14:01] <perrito666> rick_h_: alexisb-afk is that the intended behavior?
[14:01] <rick_h_> natefinch: ping for standup
[14:01] <rick_h_> perrito666: huh?
[14:01] <perrito666> rick_h_: lets say I grant you addmodel
[14:01] <perrito666> you can juju addmodel mymodel
[14:01] <perrito666> which makes you happy
[14:02] <perrito666> but you can not juju add-model --owner=perrito hismodel
[14:07] <perrito666> ok, I might get soon disconnected
[14:07] <perrito666> guess who lives where that giant blob of red is going http://www.smn.gov.ar/vmsr/general.php?dir=YVcxaFoyVnVaWE12WVhKblpXNTBhVzVoYzJWamRHOXlhWHBoWkdFdmFXNW1MM05q
[14:09] <alexisb-afk> perrito666, stay safe
[14:09] <perrito666> alexisb-afk: I have a roof :p
[14:09] <perrito666> but I dont have faith on my internet air link
[14:12] <perrito666> rick_h_: ping me after standup so we discuss this plz
[14:13] <rick_h_> perrito666: rgr
[15:06] <perrito666> rick_h_: dont forget me
[15:09] <babbageclunk> perrito666: mind talking through some architecture details with me while you wait for rick_h_? :)
[15:11] <perrito666> babbageclunk: I was thiking on lunching but I can spare a few mins
[15:11] <perrito666> what can I do for you?
[15:12] <rick_h_> perrito666: sorry, otp having fun
[15:12] <rick_h_> perrito666: will ping when free sorry
[15:13] <babbageclunk> perrito666: Thanks! I've tracked down a memory leak to us keeping State instances in the api server statePool even after they're destroyed and never closing them.
[15:13] <babbageclunk> perrito666: I mean, after the corresponding model is destroyed.
[15:14] <babbageclunk> perrito666: And I'm trying to work out how to go about closing them when the model is destroyed.
[15:17] <babbageclunk> perrito666: There doesn't seem to be any way that a state from the pool can be returned to the pool - can state objects be shared between  goroutines/concurrent requests?
[15:17] <perrito666> babbageclunk: doesnt state knows best and figures the model is gone?
[15:19] <perrito666> babbageclunk: point me to the code
[15:19] <babbageclunk> perrito666: Not as far as I can see - at least, the worker stopping done in State.Close() doesn't happen.
[15:19] <babbageclunk> perrito666: finding links...
[15:21] <babbageclunk> perrito666: This is the stuff that doesn't happen: https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/master/state/open.go#L522
[15:21] <babbageclunk> perrito666: state pool: https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/master/state/pool.go
[15:22] <babbageclunk> perrito666: Here's where it gets the state from the pool to serve a request: https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/master/apiserver/apiserver.go#L556
[15:22] <perrito666> so, close is actually never happening?
[15:23] <katco> babbageclunk: this is essentially a connection pool. so the connections to mongo won't be closed until close is called on the pool which (guessing here) will only happen when the process is torn down?
[15:23] <babbageclunk> perrito666: I mean, the server will close the pool if it gets shut down, and that will close the states.
[15:23] <katco> babbageclunk: i.e. it's ok that close isn't being called on the connections -- we want them to stay open
[15:24] <katco> babbageclunk: what is the memory leak you're tracking down?
[15:24] <perrito666> ill let you with katco for a moment as the oven is beeping
[15:24] <babbageclunk> katco: lots of add-models/destroy-models in a row.
[15:24] <babbageclunk> katco: bug 1625774
[15:24] <mup> Bug #1625774: memory leak after repeated model creation/destruction <eda> <oil> <oil-2.0> <uosci> <juju:In Progress by 2-xtian> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1625774>
[15:24] <babbageclunk> perrito666: Thanks!
[15:25] <katco> babbageclunk: ah i see the logic bug then
[15:25] <babbageclunk> katco: It seems less like a connection pool and more like a cache.
[15:25] <katco> babbageclunk: it's a connection pool (a cache of connections ;p)
[15:26] <katco> babbageclunk: so close can only be called on the pool, not for a model
[15:26] <katco> babbageclunk: so when you do add/destroy modela  bunch of times, you get a lot of connections cached, but connections for the model you destroy hang around for the life of the pool
[15:26] <babbageclunk> katco: :) Sure, but in others I've seen there's a concept of taking the connection out of the pool while it's in use and returning it.
[15:26] <babbageclunk> katco: That's right/
[15:27] <katco> babbageclunk: errr... i made a bad assumption. i wonder why we're not using sync.Pool for this
[15:27] <katco> babbageclunk: i suppose bc we want multiple people using 1 connection
[15:27] <babbageclunk> katco: Ok - that's the bit I wasn't sure about.
[15:28] <katco> babbageclunk: you are correct: this is a cache and not a pool
[15:28] <katco> babbageclunk: so basically all you need to do is to make sure that the code-path the destroys the model closes the connection from the cache and removes it
[15:28] <babbageclunk> katco: Ooh, I didn't know about sync.Pool. Neat.
[15:28] <katco> babbageclunk: yep
[15:29] <katco> babbageclunk: maybe not useful here. i suppose the value in the map here could be a sync.pool
[15:29] <babbageclunk> katco: Yeah, that's what I was thinking - the bit I wasn't sure about was making sure that others weren't using the state when I close it.
[15:31] <katco> babbageclunk: i imagine you'd need a refcount for that. i wonder if we could deduce a logically safe way though wherein a call to invalidate the cache is guaranteed to be the only consumer
[15:32] <katco> babbageclunk: i.e. if you destroy the model, you could create a watcher that waits until the model is destroyed, and then invalidate the cache knowing nothing else could be using it?
[15:32] <babbageclunk> katco: Yeah, that would make sense.
[15:32] <katco> babbageclunk: but i don't know the specifics. that's going to require a deep=dive
[15:33] <babbageclunk> katco: Also, maybe this is the source of some other weird bugs we see around destroy-model - old state objects still swimming in the pool after the model's gone away.
[15:33] <katco> babbageclunk: or the refcount with a drain op. dunno which is cleanest/logically most correct
[15:34] <natefinch> cmars: ping when you get the time about macaroons / logout etc
[15:34] <katco> babbageclunk: like what?
[15:35] <babbageclunk> katco: in the course of reproducing this I've gotten into states where I had models that would show up in list-models but couldn't be destroyed.
[15:35] <cmars> natefinch, i'm available now
[15:36] <katco> babbageclunk: =| i'm not sure open connections to state would cause that?
[15:37] <babbageclunk> katco: I'm not sure it would either, just wondering.
[15:37] <katco> babbageclunk: converge the code towards correctness and we'll get there ;)
[15:37] <babbageclunk> katco: :)
[15:38] <babbageclunk> katco: ok, so you think it's deliberate that the pool allows multiple requests to share states?
[15:38] <natefinch> cmars: ok - https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/core?pli=1&authuser=2
[15:38] <katco> babbageclunk: probably; to limit the number of connections open. ironically to prevent what you're trying to solve
[15:39] <katco> babbageclunk: i know we had a go at reducing memory leaks, and this was probably part of it
[15:39] <katco> babbageclunk: if not, we should be using sync.Pool
[15:40] <katco> babbageclunk: looks like this is over a year old though
[15:40] <babbageclunk> katco: ok, doing some code archaeology to understand the history.
[15:44] <babbageclunk> katco: Thanks for the help! I'll probably have more questions soon. :)
[15:45] <katco> babbageclunk: hth! not an expert on this by any means, but looked like i understood what was happening
[15:46] <babbageclunk> katco: might pick Menno's brains about it too - he's all through the blame for it.
[15:46] <katco> babbageclunk: lol yep
[15:48] <rick_h_> voidspace: is https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1616098 related at all to your investigation?
[15:48] <mup> Bug #1616098: Juju 2.0 uses random IP for 'PUBLIC-ADDRESS' with MAAS 2.0 <4010> <cpec> <juju:Opinion by dimitern> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1616098>
[16:04] <voidspace> rick_h_: looking
[16:06] <voidspace> rick_h_: I don't believe so
[16:06] <voidspace> rick_h_: the vsphere issue, use fe80:: as an address, which is a loopback address - is a fairly specific problem I think
[16:07] <voidspace> rick_h_: so that bug is a different one - partly impacted by my changes as addresses are now sorted (hence the "lower" address noted in Ante's latest comment)
[16:07] <voidspace> rick_h_: there's currently no space awareness in the public address picking logic
[16:08] <voidspace> rick_h_: but as we have to pick *one* address, it's not immediately clear to me how we should resolve that
[16:08] <voidspace> rick_h_: so bug 1616098 is definitely related to the address picking logic I've worked on, the vsphere one is different
[16:08] <mup> Bug #1616098: Juju 2.0 uses random IP for 'PUBLIC-ADDRESS' with MAAS 2.0 <4010> <cpec> <juju:Opinion by dimitern> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1616098>
[16:09] <rick_h_> voidspace: k, ty
[16:10] <voidspace> rick_h_: the issue there is that the  machine has multiple public IPs, some of which are not routable, and the address picking logic just has to pick one
[16:10] <voidspace> rick_h_: that logic is currently space unaware - it needs to become space aware and pick an address from a space that the controller is in
[16:10] <rick_h_> voidspace: rgr, have to think on it. It's on my list of stuff we don't seem to have a firm rulebook for
[16:11] <voidspace> rick_h_: I think that rule "pick an IP from space the controller machine is in" works
[16:11] <voidspace> rick_h_: then the public IP is routable from the controller, so we can ssh to it
[16:13] <voidspace> *a space
[16:42] <katco> can someone explain the difference of these two to me? https://github.com/juju/names/blob/v2/application.go#L13 https://github.com/juju/charm/blob/v6-unstable/url.go#L49
[16:43] <rick_h_> the one diff is the firm ending $ on the second.
[16:44] <rick_h_> though not sure what effect that would have
[16:44] <rick_h_> in practice
[16:44] <katco> rick_h_: i'm not looking for a comparison of regexes :p
[16:44] <rick_h_> katco: heh, ok then have to be more clear on "explain the diff" :)
[16:44] <katco> rick_h_: aren't the two concepts equivalent? do we have 2 checks in different libs?
[16:46] <katco> rick_h_: i think "name" in the charm lib is the same as "app" in our names lib? i think we should be centralizing checks in our names lib?
[16:48] <rick_h_> katco: there is the work to make sure they're compatible. I'm not sure why names is not a dep in charm to share the logic.
[16:48] <katco> rick_h_: it is actually a dep... not sure why it isn't just using the logic though
[16:49] <katco> rick_h_: that makes it all the more puzzling =/
[16:49] <rick_h_> katco: ok, then even more "don't know"
[16:49] <katco> rick_h_: haha
[16:49] <katco> rick_h_: would you consider "series" something else that should be validated in names?
[16:49] <rick_h_> katco: I'd suggest asking rogpeppe1 ^ for any justification and if none then carry on
[16:49]  * rogpeppe1 looks
[16:49] <rick_h_> katco: hmm, maybe as far as reserved words go, but not sure how easy series are to pull in like that in a light weight way
[16:50] <katco> rogpeppe1: ta
[16:50] <katco> rick_h_: https://github.com/juju/charm/blob/v6-unstable/url.go#L48
[16:50] <katco> rick_h_: i would just look to pull this same validation logic over
[16:50] <rick_h_> katco: hmm, that's interesting. Since series are hard coded a regex to valid them seems interseting
[16:51] <katco> rick_h_: juju proper does more validation against a fixed list. something else we might want to pull over into names
[16:51] <katco> rick_h_: i think we go in circles on this stuff bc there's no clarity across the team at a high-level as to what libs are for. lots and lots of reimplementation of thing
[16:51] <rogpeppe1> katco: they match identical texts
[16:52] <katco> rogpeppe1: sorry, can you restate?
[16:52] <rogpeppe1> katco: the names one has a few non-grouping qualifiers
[16:52] <rogpeppe1> katco: they're the same expression
[16:52] <katco> rogpeppe1: right, so can we nix the one in charm and consolidate to names?
[16:52] <rogpeppe1> katco: but the names one has ?: qualifiers to prevent subgroup matching
[16:52] <katco> rogpeppe1: also, any opposition to moving the series check over?
[16:53] <rogpeppe1> katco: i think it's probably fine for the charm package to use names.ApplicationSnippet instead of validName
[16:54] <rogpeppe1> katco: the series check?
[16:54] <katco> rogpeppe1: see the regex in charm right above the name regex
[16:54] <katco> rogpeppe1: https://github.com/juju/charm/blob/v6-unstable/url.go#L48
[16:55] <rogpeppe1> katco: does names need to know about series?
[16:55] <katco> rogpeppe1: same question for schema. can we centralize all correctness logic to the names lib?
[16:56] <katco> rogpeppe1: this is my fundamental question: is the names lib where we centralize correctness checks?
[16:56] <rogpeppe1> katco: i'm wary of moving all "name" logic to juju/names. names are not all the same.
[16:57] <katco> rogpeppe1: can you state what you feel the purpose of the name lib is?
[16:57] <rogpeppe1> katco: i think that moving all checks for all name-like things to juju/names is a recipe for mixed concerns.
[16:57] <rogpeppe1> katco: it's about names of juju entities in a juju controller
[16:57] <katco> rogpeppe1: not names of charms themselves?
[16:58] <rogpeppe1> katco: i think that charm urls could be considered separate, yes
[16:58] <rogpeppe1> katco: where do we stop? do we put all the charm URL parsing code in names.v2 too?
[16:59] <katco> rogpeppe1: if that's the case, then i think it's correct that the two are separate. how the controller spells charm entities is only coincidentally (and maybe not permanently) the same
[16:59] <rogpeppe1> katco: yeah, actually, that's right
[16:59] <katco> rogpeppe1: i wonder how we can make that justification clear...
[17:00] <rogpeppe1> katco: an application name really is different from the name of a charm in the charm store
[17:00] <rogpeppe1> katco: even though the default application name is taken from the charm name
[17:01] <katco> rogpeppe1: yeah makes sense
[17:01] <katco> rogpeppe1: ta for the clarity
[17:01] <rogpeppe1> katco: tbh i still don't mind the charm package using ApplicationName for the constant
[17:02] <katco> rogpeppe1: they're not logically coupled, so imo, i don't think it makes sense to artificially do so
[17:03] <rogpeppe1> katco: fair enough, i pretty much concur
[17:33]  * rick_h_ grabs lunchables
[17:46]  * perrito666 learns that he must close the huge closing of his garage before the storm
[17:46] <katco> perrito666: stay safe down there
[17:46] <perrito666> I am safe, a bit wet though
[17:47] <perrito666> I have one of these things http://mla-d2-p.mlstatic.com/toldo-vertical-para-balcon-toldos-de-lona-para-balcones-716221-MLA20740247242_052016-F.jpg?square=false
[17:47] <perrito666> but its one big piece, a good 4m width
[17:47] <perrito666> and was half deployed when the wind storm started
[17:48] <perrito666> good news is I closed it before it was ripped apart
[17:48] <perrito666> bad news is I am soaking wet
[17:54] <perrito666> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct8R1BPWAAAsAxb.jpg:large   <-- as you can see, the water level is at the first step of the house :p
[18:00] <natefinch> yikes
[18:00] <perrito666> no worries, I guessed this would happen so I built the house 1m above ground
[18:01] <perrito666> I am a bit surprised I still have internet though
[18:04] <natefinch> I live on a hill like 10m above the nearest low point.  If my house ever floods, water in the basement will be the least of my worries
[18:05] <perrito666> build an ark
[18:06] <natefinch> pretty much
[19:16]  * rick_h_ goes to get boy from school
[19:59] <perrito666> this city cannot stand rain http://www.lavoz.com.ar/ciudadanos/tormenta-en-cordoba-con-granizo-y-calles-anegadas?cx_level=catastrofe
[19:59] <perrito666> that is 2 hs of rain
[20:02] <natefinch> yikes
[20:03] <natefinch> gah, who decided that SetCookies(url, nil) would be a NOOP instead of just deleting all cookies?
[20:07] <alexisb> perrito666, you around ?
[20:08] <perrito666> alexisb: sorry here, Was trying to avoid a few tiles from flying from my roof
[20:08] <alexisb> o boy
[20:08] <alexisb> perrito666, do you need to be left alone?
[20:08] <perrito666> alexisb: no, I decided that its the roofers problem, not mine
[20:08] <natefinch> pretty sure there's only one answer to that question ;)
[20:09] <perrito666> I am not climbing to the roof in the middle of a storm
[20:09] <alexisb> hey perrito666 can you help tych0 with a question
[20:09] <perrito666> sure I can
[20:09] <alexisb> tych0, has a failed merge due to dep updates
[20:10] <tych0> see https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6367
[20:10] <perrito666> tych0: sorry to hear that
[20:10] <tych0> i'm trying to untangle it now
[20:10] <alexisb> perrito666, do you know what he needs to do to move things forward?
[20:10] <tych0> but supposing i can't, what's the policy on adding new deps?
[20:11] <perrito666> tych0: afaik, adding new deps needs to go through the tech board
[20:11] <rick_h_> tych0: they need to be reviewed. what's the new dep?
[20:11]  * perrito666 reads the code
[20:11] <rick_h_> tych0: it needs license review/etc
[20:12] <perrito666> tych0: I dont see you adding a new dep
[20:12] <tych0> rick_h_: https://github.com/inconshreveable/log15
[20:13] <perrito666> tych0: where is that being added?
[20:14] <rick_h_> tych0: why that dep vs the standard logging tools in core?
[20:14] <rick_h_> tych0: that might cause issues
[20:14] <tych0> ok, i'm hearing "no" then :)
[20:14] <perrito666> that will cause issues most likely
[20:14] <perrito666> especially since we are doing the logs to mongo thing
[20:15] <rick_h_> perrito666: tych0 yea, and audit logs/etc. a new logging tool will make things complicated
[20:15] <perrito666> tych0: also, I dont see on your code where is this added, I am confused
[20:15] <tych0> perrito666: it's picked up in the github.com/lxc/lxd hash update
[20:16] <rick_h_> tych0: oic, a dep if a dep?
[20:16] <tych0> i didn't add it to juju explicitly, lxd added a dep mostly accidentally
[20:16] <perrito666> .... that is different
[20:16] <rick_h_> wallyworld: ^
[20:16] <rick_h_> wallyworld: has opinions and isbon the board and such
[20:18] <alexisb> rick_h_, ian is hopefully sleeping
[20:18] <perrito666> alexisb: nonsense, ian doesnt sleep
[20:19] <rick_h_> alexisb: ah, was thinking the evening call was closer than it is
[20:19]  * rick_h_ actually looks at clock
[20:20] <alexisb> do we need to add the dep of the dep directly to juju
[20:21] <tych0> (it's also possible that none of this is necessary if i can untangle it)
[20:21] <rick_h_> alexisb: i hooe it's not that bad, but it provavly still does need license review and such
[20:23] <alexisb> rick_h_, ack
[20:23] <babbageclunk> alexisb: Is Menno around today? His name's on the StatePool which is what's hanging onto States.
[20:23] <alexisb> babbageclunk, he is
[20:23] <babbageclunk> cool cool
[20:24] <alexisb> but it will be another 30 minute sbefore he start of day
[20:24] <alexisb> babbageclunk, ^^
[20:25] <perrito666> rick_h_: ideally lxc people should have checked that and if we are licence compatible with them that should be enough, if they did not they might have tainted the code and are in deep s***t
[20:25] <perrito666> tych0: do you have more info about that?
[20:26] <perrito666> babbageclunk: heavy summoning skills
[20:27] <babbageclunk> perrito666: ha ha
[20:27] <tych0> perrito666: about what?
[20:27] <rick_h_> perrito666: it's apache license  should be good
[20:27] <babbageclunk> tych0: I invoked menn0.
[20:27] <perrito666> tych0: what rick_h_ said
[20:27] <babbageclunk> tych0: duh ignore me
[20:27] <menn0> wat?
[20:28] <tych0> perrito666: yes, we check licenses :)
[20:28] <babbageclunk> menn0: morning!
[20:28] <menn0> babbageclunk: howdy :)
[20:28] <thumper> o/ babbageclunk
[20:28] <menn0> thumper: o/
[20:28] <babbageclunk> hey thumper
[20:29] <babbageclunk> menn0: Actually, just need to walk Alice's sister back to her hotel - can I grab you in 15 mins?
[20:29] <menn0> babbageclunk: sure
[20:30] <babbageclunk> menn0: For context, I'm chasing bug 1625774 and it turns out it's state.StatePool hanging onto State instances. So I think it needs to grow a way to release them for models that have gone away.
[20:30] <mup> Bug #1625774: memory leak after repeated model creation/destruction <eda> <oil> <oil-2.0> <uosci> <juju:In Progress by 2-xtian> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1625774>
[20:31] <babbageclunk> menn0: So I wanted to run my plan past you since you seemed to know about it.
[20:31] <menn0> babbageclunk: I can see how statepool could be a problem in that case. let's talk when you're back.
[20:32] <babbageclunk> menn0: Cool thx
[20:36] <katco> ohai menn0
[20:36] <menn0> katco: howdy
[20:39] <natefinch> quick review anyone? https://github.com/juju/persistent-cookiejar/pull/16
[20:45] <katco> natefinch: i'll review yours if you give me a quick review as well: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6378
[20:51] <wallyworld> rick_h_: alexisb: tych0: our strong preference is to drop that other logging dep and migrate lxd to loggo (which now supports colour which was the issue why it wasn't used originally IIANM)
[20:51] <tych0> and syslog support
[20:51] <tych0> but that's a bigger job than we can really do :)
[20:51] <tych0> anyway, i think i've unwound it
[21:14] <babbageclunk> menn0: back (turns out Alice and Jayne needed to chat for a bit first). Now good?
[21:15] <menn0> babbageclunk: yep, give me a few secs, can you set up a hangout/bluejeans?
[21:15] <babbageclunk> don't know about bluejeans but hangout yes
[21:16] <babbageclunk> menn0: https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/xtian
[21:22] <alexisb> wallyworld, failure!
[21:22]  * alexisb grumbles and adds a tag to all the bugs
[21:27] <wallyworld> alexisb: curtis will know better than me, we can ask him at standup
[21:35] <wallyworld> alexisb: release call?
[21:35] <alexisb> wallyworld, can you invite rick to the HO
[21:35] <wallyworld> yep
[21:36] <alexisb> wallyworld, running late
[21:43] <thumper> wallyworld: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6360 and https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6372
[21:43] <wallyworld> thumper: will look after release call
[21:54] <katco> alexisb: rick_h_: are we still expecting a oct. 7th release?
[22:03] <wallyworld> thumper: we should probably check with marco or someone to ensure the --model-default syntax and behaviour is what they want
[22:03] <thumper> marcoceppi: ping
[22:06] <wallyworld> thumper: partly because andrew mentioned that in most cases, there could be an argument that what you use with --config could reasobably be in most cases a model default. but my argument was that that's fine, except for that one case where it's not
[22:06] <alexisb> katco no, the 13th
[22:06] <marcoceppi> thumper wallyworld pong
[22:07] <thumper> marcoceppi: bug 1628999 and the solution: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6360
[22:07] <mup> Bug #1628999: Openstack network selection is not passed from the controller to the models <canonical-is> <juju:In Progress by thumper> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1628999>
[22:12] <marcoceppi> thumper: so --model-defaults is applied to controller as well?
[22:12] <thumper> marcoceppi: yes
[22:12] <marcoceppi> unless overridden in --config
[22:12] <thumper> yes
[22:12] <marcoceppi> thumper: well that sounds fucking fantastic
[22:12] <marcoceppi> thumper: helps with a problem we had in Best Buy deployment of setting both --config on bootstrap, then model-config later
[22:14] <marcoceppi> thumper: the only thing I think worth considering is changing --config to --model-config to match the rest of teh verbiage, but that's a nit (at best)
[22:31] <wallyworld> marcoceppi: you can also set up model defaults in clouds.yaml - this new work brings that capability directly to the CLI. there are use cases for both
[22:31] <wallyworld> marcoceppi: in clouds.yaml, that's the only way to set up region defaults
[22:32] <wallyworld> you still can't do that on the CLI
[22:47] <axw> rogpeppe1 natefinch: there's a bug open about cookies not being deleted on logout
[23:07] <wallyworld> axw: can you pop in a minute early to standup?


[13:10] <intherye> Hi all, I already asked in #xubuntu some days ago and got no reply; so I will ask here: I have problems with my dual-monitor setup, mostly coming back from the screensaver, sometimes also after reboot/boot. The monitor layout is misconfigured; instead of my configured setup (side-by-side) I get two monitors which are mirrored (they don't have the same resolution and orientation). What can I do, or where can I start
[13:10] <intherye> troubleshooting? One thing I see: there is a lot of obsolete information in displays.xml (monitors which were not connected for a long time). Is there a way to reset all the monitor information and start from a clean state?
[14:52] <ochosi> intherye: which version of xubuntu/xfce are you using?
[14:53] <ochosi> if you're using 4.14 you can use "display profiles" (you can save them in the display dialog's advanced tab) to solve your problem
[16:33] <intherye> ochosi: i'm using 4.14/xubuntu 20.04. OK, I will try that. Thanks!
[17:29] <bluesabre> Woohoo, we finally got the "Verified" tag https://github.com/Xubuntu :)
[19:01] <ochosi> noice - go us!


[18:37] <ChinnoDog> I officially live here now. Are there release parties?
[18:40] <maco> used to do installfests after each release at GWU, but then i graduated
[18:40] <maco> i think there was a jaunty release party at ToI
[18:41] <maco> dont think there's been one since though
[18:47] <ChinnoDog> I see. This loco does not have enough beer in its ingredients.
[18:50] <maco> it has teenagers
[18:50] <maco> sometimes it has 4 year olds
[18:51] <maco> cooperation with Yorktown High School Libre User Group was one of the original parts of this loco
[18:53] <maco> Taste of India does have a bar, and kevin will usually get a Taj while there, but i don't think i've actually seen any of the rest of us drink much alcohol ever
[18:53] <maco> ive seen dan have a glass of wine a couple times, usually not in public, it's just that we were flatmates
[19:45] <ChinnoDog> Who has been going to the Saturday meetings? I would say I would go this weekend but I will be in NYC
[19:45] <maco> i don't really know
[19:45] <maco> i've been kind of out of the loop for a while. moved to an area where i have friends and got a social life and stuff :P
[19:46] <ChinnoDog> What are you trying to say about the rest of us? haha
[19:46] <maco> that yall don't spend your evenings like college students, watching DVDs every night?
[19:47] <maco> i actually live in the same apartment complex as a bunch of my friends, so its kinda like being in a dorm that actually has people i *like*
[19:47] <ChinnoDog> Sounds nice, but I moved here so there would be more things to do. I don't want to spent all my time at home watching movies
[19:48] <ChinnoDog> Except for next month, because moving is expensive and movies aren't. :-p
[19:48] <ChinnoDog> movies and playing xbox
[20:37] <dobey> heh
[20:38] <maco> for me, watching Big Bang Theory and playing Dominion with friends *is* more things to do...especially compared to sitting around on IRC every night like i have for 5 years


[00:01] <RAOF> Have fun :)
[00:33] <cnd> bryceh, are you still around?
[00:33] <cnd> RAOF, or are you around?
[00:33] <RAOF> I am, yes.
[00:34] <RAOF> cnd: What can I do you for?
[00:34] <cnd> RAOF, would you be able to upload a new utouch-qml package for me?
[00:34] <RAOF> Sure.
[00:34] <cnd> I need it in before feature freeze, and it's not in the utouch package set yet...
[00:34] <cnd> bzr branch lp:utouch-qml/ubuntu
[00:34] <cnd> uscan
[00:34] <cnd> bzr bd -S
[00:35] <cnd> sign and upload
[00:35] <cnd> I suppose the uscan should be uscan --download-current-version
[00:35] <RAOF> It should indeed :)
[00:35] <cnd> RAOF, you'll need bzr-builddeb installed
[00:36] <cnd> alternatively, I can upload a prebuild package somewhere for you to sign
[00:36] <cnd> prebuilt*
[00:36] <RAOF> I see that no-one's in a position to review your XI 2.1 protocol series :/
[00:36] <cnd> RAOF, upstream on the mailing list?
[00:37] <RAOF> Yeah.
[00:37] <cnd> whot will be
[00:37] <cnd> he's already emailed me to let me know he will review them soon
[00:37] <cnd> just got a bit of work to get out of the way
[00:37] <cnd> we're in pretty good communication
[00:37] <RAOF> Huzzah!
[00:38] <cnd> I don't know if anyone else is going to review though
[00:39] <RAOF> It only really needs whot's review, right?
[00:39] <RAOF> I guess Daniel's would be valuable, too.
[00:39] <RAOF> Man, X input doesn't have a very high bus factor :/
[00:41] <cnd> yeah, daniels would be nice but I think whot is the real gatekeeper
[00:43] <RAOF> You seem to have a bunch of 'libutouch-qml-doc: non-standard-file-perm usr/share/doc/utouch-qml/html/bc_s.png 0664 != 0644' lintian warnings in that package.
[00:44] <cnd> hmmm, I've not seen those warnings before
[00:44] <cnd> it's likely due to doxygen
[00:44] <RAOF> Yeah, likely.
[00:44] <cnd> well, it's definitely due to doxygen
[00:45] <cnd> I'll try and rebuild from scratch to see if I get those warnings
[00:45] <RAOF> Is there any easy way to test this?
[00:46] <cnd> RAOF, do you have a multitouch device?
[00:46] <RAOF> BAH!  bluetooth is broken, so my magic touchpad won't work.
[00:46] <cnd> synaptics perhaps?
[00:46] <RAOF> Got a synaptics here; how can I tell if it's sufficeiently multitouch?
[00:47] <cnd> you can install qt4-qmlviewer
[00:47] <cnd> then run qmlviewer examples/eventprinter/eventprinter.qml
[00:47] <RAOF> Ah.  When I say "synaptics", what I actually mean is "Alps GlidePoint"
[00:47] <cnd> heh
[00:47] <cnd> nope, won't work
[00:47] <cnd> (yet)
[00:48] <cnd> I've found that linux 3.0.0-7 works, but bluetooth doesn't work before that and hid-magicmouse (for the magic trackpad) doesn't work in 3.0.0-8
[00:48] <cnd> something else I need to track down...
[00:49] <cnd> RAOF, I only get the one lintian warning about the embedded javascript library
[00:49] <cnd> which is also a doxygen issue
[00:50] <cnd> doxygen likes to ship a version of jquery that is different than the upstream version
[00:50] <cnd> so you can't do the "correct" thing and symlink to the upstream version
[00:50] <RAOF> Hm.  This is possibly a pkgbinarymangler bug.  All those pngs have been touched by optipng.
[00:51] <cnd> what's optipng?
[00:51] <RAOF> The thing we use to squeeze ever tinier slivers of CD space out of packages.
[00:51] <RAOF> It's a png optimiser that pkgbinarymangler runs.
[00:51] <cnd> I'm guessing it's only invoked when it's installed
[00:51] <cnd> cause I don't have it installed
[00:52] <RAOF> Indeed.
[00:52] <RAOF> pkgbinarymangler hooks into dpkg somewhere.
[00:52] <cnd> I'll install it and see if that makes it occur
[00:52] <cnd> then we'll know for sure
[00:53] <cnd> nope, that still didn't do it
[00:54] <cnd> oh, I don't have pkgbinarymangler installed
[00:55] <cnd> well, the pngs were modified, but still no lintian warnings
[00:55] <cnd> so I don't know why you're seeing them
[00:55] <RAOF> Anyway, looks sufficiently good; uploaded.
[00:55] <RAOF> Hm.  Maybe my sbuild setup is slightly strange.
[00:55] <cnd> cool, thanks again!
[00:55] <cnd> are you all dist-upgraded?
[00:57] <RAOF> Yeah.
[00:58] <RAOF> I lost my libgl1-mesa-glx:i386 :(
[00:58] <cnd> ummm, ok?
[00:58] <cnd> was it near and dear to your heart?
[00:58] <RAOF> Terribly!
[00:58] <RAOF> Or, rather, it was near and dear to my wine.
[00:59] <RAOF> God knows when ia32-libs was last updated.
[00:59] <RAOF> It'll work once libc is fixed again.
[01:00] <cnd> I thought ia32-libs was going to go away
[01:04] <RAOF> Yeah, but it doesn't look like it will for oneiric.
[01:05] <RAOF> But you *can* install the i386 version of mesa, which does basically everything you want from multiarch, anyway :)
[01:06] <cnd> cool
[01:07] <RAOF> Oh, whoops.  You can as long as you've got a multiarch'd libpciaccess, such as I've got here :)
[01:31] <bjsnider> RAOF, is your system still using 20gb of ram per process?
[01:32] <RAOF> bjsnider: Still?  To what do you refer?
[01:32] <bjsnider> you said all your ram is used up because x clients grab huge amounts of it
[01:33] <bjsnider> but i guess the problem has been resolved
[01:33] <RAOF> That may have been compiz going mad?
[07:39] <ricotz> tjaalton, hi, i hope you dont forget about libx11
[07:41] <tjaalton> ricotz: nope
[07:42] <tjaalton> was FF today?
[07:42] <tjaalton> so it seems
[07:42] <tjaalton> I'll do that and some other merges then
[07:44] <ricotz> tjaalton, yes, FF is today ;), thanks
[07:47] <RAOF> tjaalton: While we're in the upload-before-FF games, could you please test the -ati in alioth?  I'd test it locally, but my ati machine has spent the past 6 hours updating and still isn't finished.
[07:48] <tjaalton> RAOF: oops, same problem here too. my test build is still on natty, though it would only take ~1h to update i guess
[07:48] <tjaalton> I only have an old firegl though
[07:50] <RAOF> Ok.  This HD 5450 should finish updating *sometime* soon, I guess :)
[07:51] <tjaalton> is hd6xxx supported yet?
[07:52] <RAOF> Should be.
[07:52] <RAOF> Although I think that might depend on the exact value of xxx.
[07:52] <tjaalton> good, I could buy a hd6450 based card, passively cooled and only ~50EUR
[08:05] <RAOF> tjaalton: Gah.  It's EOD here.  Could you please test -ati and upload if it's sane?
[08:06] <RAOF> I have no idea when my test box will be available to actually test on :/
[08:10] <tjaalton> RAOF: yeah, can do
[08:54] <tjaalton> hmm, not enough space on disk, best to just reinstall the sucker then. faster too
[09:20] <tseliot> Sarvatt, RAOF: are there any plans to put the new X in xorg-edgers?
[09:20] <tseliot> 1.11
[09:22] <tjaalton> either that or a separate ppa, or both
[09:23] <tjaalton> since the idea was to stage the stack in a ppa and then push it to P when it opens
[09:32] <tjaalton> oh nice, alpha3 installer crashed
[09:35] <tjaalton> tseliot: can you test the -ati from git? could be that i'm unable to install oneiric to test it myself
[09:43] <tseliot> tjaalton: I can probably do that later today
[09:44] <tseliot> tjaalton: you're talking about our git repository, right?
[10:02] <tjaalton> tseliot: yes, today is FF so it should be uploaded today as well
[10:02] <tseliot> tjaalton: what? Wasn't it on August 17?
[10:03] <tjaalton> nope, 11th
[10:03] <tjaalton> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
[10:03] <tseliot> you're right and I'm already late with some uploads...
[10:35] <tjaalton> synced libxfont 1.4.4-1 to oneiric
[12:06] <Sarvatt> tjaalton, RAOF: ati's version shouldn't be 6.14.99 though
[12:06] <Sarvatt> 6.14.3~
[12:07] <tjaalton> right, it could end up being 6.14.4?
[12:07] <Sarvatt> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-video-ati/commit/?id=2fca40ea65d9f2a6f8451c324bb4b82786f34f76 they do that every release
[12:08] <tjaalton> "bump"
[12:09] <tjaalton> Sarvatt: do you have ati gear to test it on? I've yet to hit the store so it could take hours still for me to get a current card
[12:14] <Sarvatt> nothing on oneiric, no. any idea when the cutoff is?
[12:15] <tjaalton> today is FF
[12:15] <Sarvatt> yeah when today I mean
[12:15] <tjaalton> ah, dunno
[12:15] <tjaalton> synced -siliconmotion
[12:16] <tjaalton> merged xterm
[12:16] <Sarvatt> with my luck oneiric upgrades are broken with everyone shoving crap in
[12:16]  * Sarvatt checks
[12:17] <Sarvatt> i'll start an upgrade on my hd5770 machine to test it out, looks like only ubuntuone and multiarch are busted
[12:26] <Sarvatt> tseliot: i wasnt planning on putting 1.11 in edgers until october probably, is ati asking for it or something?
[12:34] <tjaalton> crap, forgot that pbuilder works now, should probably try the builds first
[13:00] <tjaalton> I'm removing the silly locales from libx11
[13:53] <tjaalton> hum, can't see any reason not to grab xkeyboard-config 2.3-1 from experimental
[14:07] <jcristau> do you know who's taking care of CVE-2011-2895 for ubuntu?
[14:07] <ubot4> jcristau: ** RESERVED ** This candidate has been reserved by an organization or individual that will use it when announcing a new security problem.  When the candidate has been publicized, the details for this candidate will be provided. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2011-2895)
[14:07] <tjaalton> jcristau: is it the libxfont one?
[14:07] <jcristau> yes
[14:07] <tjaalton> I synced it to oneiric, other versions are not done yet
[14:08] <jcristau> i was wondering if there was some sort of test case or something
[14:08] <Sarvatt> kees: any idea about the above?
[14:08] <tjaalton> hmm dunno. mdeslaur, do you know ^?
[14:08] <tjaalton> :)
[14:08] <tjaalton> echo
[14:09] <Sarvatt> ah whoops, sorry if I pinged the wrong person :)
[14:09] <jcristau> that code hasn't changed in forever anyway, so it doesn't look like a risky cherry-pick
[14:10] <mdeslaur> let me look, one sec
[14:13] <mdeslaur> jcristau: I don't see any test cases for the security fix
[14:13] <jcristau> thanks for checking
[14:20] <tjaalton> meh, xkeyboard-config failed to build, have to check it later.. gone for ~3h ->
[15:43] <Sarvatt> tjaalton, RAOF: an hour stress testing the ati checkout in git with no problems, ship it :)
[15:44] <Sarvatt> of course theres a new bugfix today
[16:22] <tseliot> tjaalton: I don't think I'll be able to test -ati today
[16:42] <tseliot> ah, good, Robert tested it
[17:26] <tjaalton> Sarvatt: cool, and I got a new HD6450 ready for testing :)
[17:49] <tjaalton> dh_autoreconf: (intltoolize -c -f && autoreconf -vfi) (intltoolize -c -f && autoreconf -vfi) failed to to execute: No such file or directory
[17:49] <tjaalton> what the hell
[18:00] <tjaalton> not even the debian branch builds
[18:00] <tjaalton> of xkeyboard-config
[18:06] <Sarvatt> its the override_dh_autoreconf section in the rules screwing it up
[18:07] <tjaalton> hum yes, obviously, but why
[18:16] <tjaalton> removing '--' made it build, but dunno if it does what it's supposed to do
[18:20] <tjaalton> apparently it does
[18:54] <tjaalton> tseliot: what are those -updates blobs for?
[19:07] <Sarvatt> ricotz: so can I just pull in oneiric wayland packages to natty directly in edgers?
[19:07] <Sarvatt> mesa needs it
[19:08] <tjaalton> xkeyboard-config uploaded.. now how do I create that ati tarball with pristine-tar..
[19:09] <ricotz> Sarvatt, already have
[19:11] <tjaalton> ha, created it
[19:11] <Sarvatt> ricotz: ah we need ubuntu3
[19:11] <Sarvatt> ricotz: and it has to be ubuntu3whatever~natty
[19:12] <ricotz> Sarvatt, 3 doesnt have any relevant changes, but i can upload it
[19:12] <Sarvatt> or else the build dep wont get satisfied by ubuntu3~edgers~natty being lower than ubuntu3
[19:12] <ricotz> building against ubuntu2 is fine
[19:12] <ricotz> ah
[19:13] <ricotz> i see what you mean
[19:13] <bryceh> hmm, looks like something is screwy with the intel apport hook transition - see bug #824023
[19:13] <Sarvatt> i can add a hook to fix it in mesa but seems easier to just reupload the ubuntu3 wayland and be done with it
[19:13] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 824023 in xdiagnose (Ubuntu) "package xdiagnose (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/apport/apport-gpu-error-intel.py', which is also in package xserver-xorg-video-intel 2:2.14.0-4ubuntu7.2 (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/824023
[19:14] <bryceh> tjaalton, do we need to add a conflicts or something in xdiagnose to the -intel driver to ensure the upgrades occur in proper order?
[19:14] <ricotz> Sarvatt, uploading 3 wont help with the next mesa build it will the same problem
[19:14] <Sarvatt> not if you do ubuntu3edgers~natty
[19:14] <ricotz> mhh, right
[19:14] <ricotz> on sec
[19:14] <ricotz> one sec
[19:16] <Sarvatt> they changed the PPA docs to recommend using XubuntuYppa1 instead of XubuntuY~ppa1 and it makes lots of sense so you dont have to change build deps on everything
[19:16] <tjaalton> bryceh: seems like it
[19:16] <ricotz> Sarvatt, this of course will break the upgrade path
[19:17] <Sarvatt> which upgrade path? the one already broken in edgers by everything being newer than the next release? :P
[19:17] <tjaalton> bryceh: Replaces: xserver-xorg-video-intel (<= 2:2.14.0-4ubuntu7.1),
[19:17] <tjaalton> bryceh: there's your problem :)
[19:17] <bryceh> tjaalton, ah, what should that be?  Conflicts?
[19:17] <bryceh> oh, 7.2 aha
[19:17] <tjaalton> bryceh: use (< $version_thats_not_going_to_get_in_natty) :)
[19:17] <bryceh> yep
[19:18] <tjaalton> like (< 2:2.15)
[19:18] <ricotz> Sarvatt, right, but still in this case it is a copy from oneiric which should be replaced by the original one, anyway i will upload it
[19:18] <ricotz> ;)
[19:18] <tjaalton> btw, oneiric is totally broken on the HD6450 with -ati
[19:18] <bryceh> 2:2.14.0-4ubuntu8 should be sufficient, no?
[19:19] <tjaalton> lets see if the snapshot changes anything, though I think it's kernel at fault
[19:19] <tjaalton> bryceh: yeah
[19:21] <Sarvatt> tjaalton: pci id?
[19:21] <Sarvatt> which caicos is it?
[19:25] <tjaalton> Sarvatt: well, it loads but gfx totally corrupted. and can't get the id since I can't log in :P (and no sshd yet)
[19:25] <Sarvatt> nomodeset time
[19:25] <tjaalton> ah, right
[19:31] <tjaalton> with nomodeset it just hung with a blinking cursor
[19:33] <tjaalton> wait, it was just the keyboard that stopped working during boot, until I reconnected it
[19:34] <Sarvatt> ricotz: debhelper 8.1.2ubuntu2 is enough for wayland on natty, we had the multiarch stuff backported to it before 8.1.3 (sorry if ya already were fixing it)
[19:34] <tjaalton> 1002:6779
[19:35] <Sarvatt> hrm "support" for that was there, anything in your dmesg from the old boots in /var/log/kern.log hopefully?
[19:36] <tjaalton> oh yes
[19:38] <ricotz> Sarvatt, sorry, uploaded again
[19:39] <Sarvatt> ricotz: thank you thank you :)
[19:39] <tjaalton> http://pastebin.com/7eJaQhiQ
[19:39] <Sarvatt> ricotz: btw i'm hoping to have xserver 1.11 in there way sooner than expected (like in the next week or so), rememebered ya asking about it
[19:40] <ricotz> oh, nice
[19:40] <Sarvatt> tjaalton: disable the intel IGP in the bios
[19:41] <tjaalton> Sarvatt: no such thing
[19:41] <Sarvatt> its the SDP right? sure there is
[19:41] <tjaalton> this is an old Asus P5K board
[19:41] <Sarvatt> oh
[19:41] <tjaalton> rock solid :)
[19:42] <tjaalton> i'll build 3.1rc1 tomorrow to try
[19:44] <tjaalton> ati uploaded
[19:45] <tjaalton> looks like apart from the pending xserver merge we got every new upstream version uploaded in time :P
[19:46] <Sarvatt> tjaalton: do you have cryptsetup installed? is radeon in your initrd?
[19:46] <tjaalton> Sarvatt: this is a fresh natty install, upgraded to oneiric, without cryptocrap
[19:46]  * tjaalton grabs a sierra nevada
[19:46] <Sarvatt> tjaalton: you can do a sudo mv /lib/plymouth/renderers/drm.so{,.bak} to get the desktop up for now, i dont know how to disable a single plymouth backend at runtime :P
[19:47] <tjaalton> heh, thats ok, I don't need the box
[19:47] <tjaalton> might just build the new kernel first to see if it helps
[19:47] <tjaalton> ok, EOD for me
[19:48] <Sarvatt> way past that eh? :P
[19:55] <tjaalton> yeah, indeed
[20:22] <Sarvatt> RAOF: err, they're talking about reverting the vblank patch and reintroducing the compiz hangs on all intels again on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/814325
[20:22] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 814325 in linux (Ubuntu Natty) (and 1 other project) "fuzzy and corrupted display with update in natty-proposed (affects: 1) (heat: 18)" [High,Triaged]
[21:04] <tseliot> tjaalton: to keep drivers updated during the stable release cycle
[21:04]  * tseliot -> offline
[21:18] <tjaalton> Sarvatt: oops, right. I thought it was the one which fixed dualscreen setup.. still, would be too bad to revert that
[21:52] <Sarvatt> bryceh: do you have natty on that arrandale?
[21:53] <bryceh> Sarvatt, no, oneiric
[21:53] <bryceh> (and wayland *grin*)
[21:54] <Sarvatt> if you have any spare time, could ya try installing the 2.6.38-11 kernel from natty-proposed and seeing if you can reproduce this with the script on comment 12? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/814325
[21:54] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 814325 in linux (Ubuntu Natty) (and 1 other project) "fuzzy and corrupted display with update in natty-proposed (affects: 1) (heat: 24)" [High,Triaged]
[22:25] <RAOF> Sarvatt: I suspect that maybe http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.freedesktop.xorg.drivers.intel/5423 will be the fix for that.
[22:26] <RAOF> Well, the two patches in that thread.
[22:27] <Sarvatt> RAOF: sorry about that ping earlier, I misread and thought they were reverting the compiz fix and in the process of my net dying 3 times forgot to mention that
[22:27] <RAOF> That's ok.  You're welcome to ping me while I'm safely asleep :)


[00:36] <auscompgeek> cosmo: not a wm/de issue.
[00:37] <auscompgeek> cosmo: you should install the virtualbox guest additions from the ubuntu repos
[00:46] <cosmo> auscompgeek, in the VM or the Host OS? Host OS is Debian if that makes any difference.
[00:47] <auscompgeek> cosmo: in the VM, of course :P
[00:47] <cosmo> thanks!
[00:47] <auscompgeek> installing guest additions in the host … won't do much.
[00:47] <auscompgeek> np
[00:48] <cosmo> yeah, it gets murky
[00:48] <cosmo> to me anyway, still getting used to this. i'd like to have a VM per workspace.
[00:49] <cosmo> but these tiny screens man
[00:49] <cosmo> grumbles
[01:01] <cosmo> yesss it works!
[01:02] <cosmo> McDuh, had to install the broken packages.
[01:02] <cosmo> or reinstall i guess.
[01:09] <cosmo> i tunneled my tunnel, fun
[01:10] <auscompgeek> `apt-get install -f` fixes those :P
[01:11] <cosmo> what is the proper term for those '-f' things? arguments, identifiers
[01:12] <auscompgeek> if an argument starts with '-', it's usually a switch
[01:13] <cosmo> so "call aptitude, install/change packages, that are broken" something like that...
[01:14] <cosmo> operator operator, get me line 2
[01:14] <cosmo> get me outta here morpheus
[01:15] <cosmo> i'm more of a political bent than technical, i'm good with people
[01:15] <cosmo> computers are fun though. i'm trying to learn how to set up a secure-ish system for cryptocurrency use
[02:50] <Brontx> Small question about Thunar: Is there a way to adjust the column justification in the detailed list view? The Size column is right-justified and all the others are left-justified.  Thanks.
[05:44] <xubuntu94w> hi there. I am using xubuntu 14.04
[05:44] <xubuntu94w> LTS , and I have no longer support
[05:44] <cfhowlett> 14.04 is still supported.
[05:44] <xubuntu94w> the US and Main servers are not working
[05:44] <ObrienDave> try a different server
[05:45] <xubuntu94w> I used select best server botton and also does not work
[05:45] <ObrienDave> select "other" and try the one closest to you
[05:45] <xubuntu94w> I can have server from all over the world but it is in vain
[05:46] <ObrienDave> how long has this been going on?
[05:46] <xubuntu94w> since the last year
[05:47] <xubuntu94w> 2 years remain
[05:47] <xubuntu94w> the release finishes on 2017
[05:47] <cfhowlett> you're telling us NOW that you haven't had an active repo since LAST YEAR??
[05:47] <ObrienDave> do you have ALL of the standard repos enabled?
[05:48] <xubuntu94w> one week ago I can not have the updates
[05:48] <xubuntu94w> working for one year good
[05:48] <ObrienDave> where do you live?
[05:48] <xubuntu94w> PERU
[05:49] <ObrienDave> have you tried the chile servers?
[05:50] <xubuntu94w> is there anyproblem?
[05:50] <xubuntu94w> not yet
[05:50] <ObrienDave> keep trying servers in neighboring countries
[05:50] <ObrienDave> make sure ALL standard repos are enabled
[05:50] <xubuntu94w> I remembered I install debian to my brother's computer using server from texas and running great
[05:52] <ObrienDave> keep trying servers in neighboring countries
[05:52] <xubuntu94w> just appeared a new message : xubuntu 14.10 is now available but you have 14.04
[05:53] <cfhowlett> xubuntu94w, is LONG TERM SUPPORT. 14.10 is supported for 9 months
[05:53] <ObrienDave> 14.04 is good until 2017
[05:53] <xubuntu94w> yeah, why is not working then?
[05:53] <ObrienDave> but you knew that :)
[05:54] <ObrienDave> i don't know. try asking in #ubuntu. many more people to help there
[05:54] <xubuntu94w> I have tried one server from Chile, it does not work either,
[05:55] <ObrienDave> what happens?
[05:55] <xubuntu94w> but still remain 2
[05:55] <xubuntu94w> message :Failled to download repository information
[05:55] <xubuntu94w> W:Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/samrog131/ppa/ubuntu/dists/trusty/main/binary-i386/Packages  404  Not Found , E:Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
[05:56] <ObrienDave> it's quite possible there is just a bad connection from your area to the servers. ALL of them seems unlikely
[05:56] <xubuntu94w> the hell is going on?
[05:56] <ObrienDave> ok, that's a PPA issue
[05:56] <cfhowlett> ObrienDave, dns?
[05:56] <ObrienDave> probably
[05:56] <xubuntu94w> I have openDNS to block porno
[05:57] <ObrienDave> what are your DNS addresses?
[05:57] <ObrienDave> try the google addresses. <IP_ADDRESS>    <IP_ADDRESS>
[05:57] <xubuntu94w> dns SERVER : <IP_ADDRESS>, <IP_ADDRESS>
[05:58] <ObrienDave> having two addresses the same is not usually a good idea
[05:59] <xubuntu94w> THEy are not the same, look at it well
[05:59] <ObrienDave> oops, i see the difference. sorry
[05:59] <xubuntu94w> should I change them in order to get the upgrade¿
[06:00] <ObrienDave> you can try. then change back after
[06:00] <xubuntu94w> what about the google dns ?
[06:00] <ObrienDave> it's also possible that PPA does not exist anymore
[06:01] <xangua> what PPA¿
[06:01] <ObrienDave> go through your PPA list and disable the one giving you trouble
[06:01] <xubuntu94w> but it is from the U:S: server, how can not exist anymore?
[06:01] <ObrienDave> PPAs are NOT from the same server
[06:01] <xubuntu94w> how can I know the trouble one'?
[06:02] <ObrienDave> https://launchpad.net/~samrog131/+ppa-packages
[06:03] <ObrienDave> look up the address in the error message :)
[06:03] <ObrienDave> if any ONE PPA errors out, you can NOT complete the updates
[06:03] <ObrienDave> you have a PPA issue
[06:04] <cfhowlett> ObrienDave, disable the ppa temporarily
[06:04] <ObrienDave> that's what i'm trying to get him to do :)
[06:04] <xubuntu94w> I have it unchecked now
[06:04] <xubuntu94w> then?
[06:04] <ObrienDave> take over please, i need a potty break
[06:05] <ObrienDave> cfhowlett,
[06:05] <cfhowlett> xubuntu94w, reload/refresh then
[06:06] <xubuntu94w> ubuntu sofwatre center does not show up anymore
[06:06] <xubuntu94w> using the fucking terminal :D
[06:07] <cfhowlett> xubuntu94w, profanity >>> you get added to my /ignore file
[06:08] <xubuntu94w> bad app disabled and server from chile , think is working now, by the moment
[06:09] <xubuntu94w> oh that is great after a terrible week
[06:11] <xubuntu94w> thank you guys :D hope you have a great time :D
[06:11] <ObrienDave> most welcome
[08:48] <slani> hello. after update 15.04 my sound stop working (hp elitebook 8530p). Can someone please help me?
[11:50] <xubuntu37d> test
[12:43] <slani_> 1/wc
[16:31] <nigaa> hi
[16:31] <nigaa> is there anyone
[16:32] <cfhowlett> nigaa, change your nick.
[21:01] <LiverWurst> hello
[21:02] <LiverWurst> xubuntu is essentially the same as ubuntu but the wm correct?
[21:04] <pleia2> no, in addition to coming with a different desktop manager (and window manager), it also ships with different default applications
[21:05] <ObrienDave> but just about anything taht runs un Ubuntu will run in Xubuntu
[21:05] <ObrienDave> *that
[21:05] <pleia2> yeah, pretty much
[21:05] <pleia2> Xubuntu and Ubuntu share software repositories, so everything is installable in both
[21:05] <ObrienDave> dang, fat fingers today ;P
[21:06] <pleia2> a Unity scope probably won't work ;) but LibreOffice will (using it as we speak!)
[21:06] <LiverWurst> thinking about putting it on the laptop and was wondering if i could use the ati drivers that you can download for ubuntu
[21:06] <pleia2> oh yeah, that kind of stuff is all the same
[21:06] <LiverWurst> ok great
[21:06] <ObrienDave> i'm running a laptop with Intel drivers. works fine here
[21:07] <LiverWurst> other than surfing web, netflix and google play, i might try to get STO working on it with wine
[21:07] <LiverWurst> star trek online
[21:08] <ObrienDave> you'll probably be better off going for the dual boot
[21:09] <LiverWurst> nah..im trying to move away from windows
[21:09] <ObrienDave> well, wine will never do as well performance wise,
[21:09] <LiverWurst> running fedora 22 on it right now and i feel like it runs a little clunky
[21:10] <LiverWurst> i know
[21:11] <LiverWurst> the reason im choosing xubuntu is specifically for the ati driver and i dont want unity
[21:11] <ObrienDave> Unity is the reason most of us chose Xubuntu ;P
[21:11] <LiverWurst> heh
[21:11] <knome> ObrienDave, ummm...
[21:12] <LiverWurst> ok dd is done..thanks for the info
[21:12] <ObrienDave> welcome


[17:33] <berent> i see 3 letters of 'u'  and one letter of 'n' which look like porn chat symbols on the ubuntu sticker. even the sticker is shaped like a 'u' when seen horizontally. who has designed this way of writing our ubuntu
[17:34] <berent> i did not want to make it serious but when i recieved some cd's today of hardy( one more "hard" name!!) i was like. why is it so obvious everywhere? and the sticker is quite big. i would love something which is compact and beautiful like asus, amd or even marketman windows!!
[17:35] <berent> anyone alive here?
[17:35] <pep> yes
[17:36] <pep> you know f you have a serious criticism, proposal, or idea in general for marketing... you better write to the mailing list. the channel is mostly used for intra-marketing team coordination
[17:37] <pep> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
[17:41] <berent> pep: why cant be irc a place of effective communication instead of mailing list.
[17:42] <pep> because people are at work or doing other things than hanging around on the internet waiting for someone to enter the channel most of the time.
[17:42] <pep> so it is a place like that but when there are meetings, announced in advance.
[17:42] <pep> else you must see the more active channels like #ubuntu
[17:43] <pep> if you absolutely want a debate, you can write to different mailing lists and invite people to join you here at a given date/time.
[17:44] <pep> in the meantime, I still have a 5cm pile of paper to work myself through :)
[17:46] <berent> pep: great. but still can you take this to higher ups since this is a very important thing. hope u understand.
[17:48] <pep> berent: ubuntu is a community-driven project, if you write your exact way of thinking and thoughts to the marketing mailing list, trust me, the "higher ups" will see it too... if it comes to a real debate and several people think like you, then it will have its effect.
[17:50] <berent> pep: that's what can u just copy and paste this somewhere there. i am a bit lazy with signing up since i mostly chat on irc.
[17:52] <pep> you can try writing to the list without signing up and specifing to send you a copy, but it's kind of a risk... else you just write a single mail, saying that you are not on the list so any responses must go back to your personal email, and calling for a debate about this... you know... some ubunteros I know absolutely don't agree with me but one of my great principles is "Love it, change it, or leave it." Personally I love ubuntu as it is, I
[17:52] <pep> actually *like* it... so if you don't, find people who think the same as you, and get your voice heard!
[17:54] <pep> right, I'm off, I've got to go now... If really you don't want to write to the list, I can write it, but it will have absolutely no effect if I'm correct, because I'l jsut be copy/pasting someone else's thoughts, without even being of the same opinion...
[17:54] <pep> I'll just*
[17:56] <pep> I'm off... see you later tonight if you want to talk


[13:58] <team24> hi
[13:59] <team24> Is it possible to have a mutiple *and* on start condition.
[22:02] <Arafangion> team24: I don't see why it shouldn't be.