[01:44] <callmepkwu> good morning
[01:53] <jamesh> hi callmepkwu
[01:54] <callmepkwu> hey jamesh
[01:58] <duflu> Hi callmepkwu, jamesh
[02:22] <callmepkwu> hey duflu
[06:22] <seb128> goood morning desktopers
[06:45] <jibel> Good morning folks
[06:58] <duflu> Morning seb128 and jibel
[06:58] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[06:58] <duflu> and oSoMoN
[06:58] <oSoMoN> hey duflu
[07:02] <jibel> Bonjour duflu oSoMoN seb128
[07:17] <oSoMoN> salut jibel, seb128
[07:22] <seb128> hey duflu, jibel, oSoMoN , how are you?
[07:22] <didrocks> good morning
[07:22] <didrocks> hey seb128
[07:22] <seb128> lut didrocks
[07:30] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks
[07:30] <oSoMoN> seb128, I'm good, and you?
[07:30] <didrocks> salut oSoMoN
[07:30] <oSoMoN> it was a short night, but I managed to rest well nevertheless
[07:37] <seb128> I'm alright, short night as well but I'm not feeling that rested!
[07:50] <duflu> seb128, hi sorry, my dear mum decided to drop in. Good. Hoe are you?
[07:51] <duflu> How are you?
[07:51] <duflu> Hi didrocks
[07:54] <didrocks> hey duflu
[07:54] <jibel> seb128, I'm good, a bit depressed by the perspective a new lock down
[07:55] <jibel> Salut didrocks
[07:58] <didrocks> is it still a perspective or an incoming reality? :)
[07:59] <didrocks> when there is too much whispering about something, you can think that the leak is on purpose, to prepare us to the idea (but well, it was already anticipated from some days/weeks now, the question was just "when"?)
[08:03] <jibel> when you look at the numbers and the trends it seems hardly inevitable
[08:04] <jibel> I'll hole up in my cave for the next two month, and hibernate until spring
[08:26] <marcustomlinson> morning callmepk jamesh duflu seb128 jibel oSoMoN didrocks and other desktoppers
[08:27] <jibel> Bonjour marcustomlinson, how are you today?
[08:27] <marcustomlinson> TIIIIIRRRREEEDDD, and you? ;)
[08:27] <didrocks> hey marcustomlinson
[08:28] <jibel> I'm doing well :)
[08:28] <duflu> Hi marcustomlinson
[08:28] <marcustomlinson> this daylight savings crap have thrown off the baby's sleep a bit so we're still getting up at 5 except it's 4 now :/
[08:28] <duflu> jibel, if you do have a cave, that's pretty cool
[08:29] <jibel> I dug it in the 80s when the thread was a nuclear war, I didn't think it'd be useful for a biological attack
[08:29] <jibel> threat*
[08:29] <marcustomlinson> are you being serious?
[08:29] <jibel> nope
[08:29] <marcustomlinson> haha
[08:29] <jibel> j/k
[08:39] <oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson
[08:41] <seb128> hey marcustomlinson, welcome to the club of tired men!
[08:41] <marcustomlinson> thanks, I think... :P
[08:42] <seb128> though you win, we went from 6 to 5
[08:53] <jamesh> hi marcustomlinson
[09:04] <Laney> hello tired people
[09:06] <duflu> Hello Laney
[09:21] <marcustomlinson> hey Laney
[10:05] <seb128> hey Laney
[10:07] <Laney> yo duflu marcustomlinson seb128
[10:39] <popey> Is it documented somewhere obvious which applications have archive exceptions - like firefox - for keeping old Ubuntu stable releases up to date?
[10:43] <mgedmin> popey: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Documentation_for_Special_Cases ?
[10:44] <mgedmin> (which doesn't mention firefox ...)
[10:44] <popey> mgedmin yeah, i was on that page and couldnt find firefox
[10:44] <Laney> firefox updates are handled by the security team which doesn't need to follow the SRU process
[10:45] <popey> is that documented somewhere?
[10:45] <Laney> not sure if there's a doc which covers it
[10:45] <Laney> but that's why it's not on the SRU page
[10:45] <Laney> oSoMoN might know, otherwise I'd try the security team themselves
[10:45] <seb128> Laney, nice to see we got a reply on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-cdimage/+bug/1899632/comments/15 :-)
[10:46] <Laney> yep
[10:46] <Laney> they were responsive, good to see
[10:47] <Laney> xnox: you might want to be the one to reply to that reply
[10:47] <Laney> hardcoding it seems ok to me, or they could switch to parsing it from grub instead if they wanted
[10:59] <xnox> Laney:  commented!
[11:00] <Laney> merci
[11:00] <Laney> I assume they modify that cmdline to preseed the stuff
[11:01] <xnox> me too
[11:51] <oSoMoN> popey, if this is documented publicly, I don't know where
[11:51] <popey> Ok! Thanks :)
[11:55] <RikMills> oSoMoN popey: I expected to find it here? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Documentation_for_Special_Cases
[11:55] <RikMills> maybe that needs updating?
[11:58] <oSoMoN> it is implicitly documented here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures#Releasing_an_update
[11:59] <oSoMoN> which is linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#High-impact_bugs
[12:00] <RikMills> ah yes, as firefox updates are security in part nearly always
[12:42] <Beret> so is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1825710 something we can get some attention on this cycle?
[12:42] <Beret> wishlist isn't an accurate importance designation on that one imo
[13:02] <seb128> Beret, we discussed that one some cycles ago, the situation didn't change. Also we defined our roadmap and already are over capacity so I doubt we are going to find cycles for that unless we trade something
[13:03] <seb128> Beret, is that creating any issue other than visual annoyance?
[13:04] <mdeslaur> depression, anxiety, sudden urge to switch to macos
[13:04] <seb128> oSoMoN, bug #1901829 got some reports, unsure if that's worth rls tagging, wdyt?
[13:05] <seb128> mdeslaur, other things in GNOME are having the same effect though no? ;-)
[13:07] <mdeslaur> seb128: hehe :)
[13:08] <seb128> oSoMoN, is the messagingmenu extension supposed to still be around or is a local install leftover?
[13:08] <mdeslaur> seb128: like bug 1870956 ARGHHULKSMASH
[13:09] <ogra> oh, i never noticed it needs to leave through the taskbar ... i always thought its a feature to show you "recently used" icons 😛
[13:12] <Beret> seb128, didn't change meaning it's expensive to fix because it's intended behavior?
[13:12] <Beret> (I'm trying to recall)
[13:13] <seb128> Beret, the feature is useful, if you start something that is going to take a minute to open and go read email, you get notified that it finally is ready to use
[13:14] <Beret> I disagree
[13:14] <seb128> unity was animating the launcher icon for that
[13:14] <seb128> GNOME doesn't have a launcher though
[13:15] <Beret> do you have a non-gnome example of something that takes away my focus to say I can do something that I've asked the system to do already?
[13:15] <seb128> we have one so we could go back to do that instead of the animation, but then it's non trivial work
[13:15] <Beret> our conversation is coming back to me :)
[13:15] <Beret> my opinion hasn't changed
[13:21] <seb128> Beret, users did seem to like having the feedback, at least in unity with the launcher animation, it's just that a notification might be not subtle enough
[13:22] <seb128> -not
[13:22] <Beret> the fundamental problem is that it isn't expected behavior
[13:22] <seb128> is it?
[13:22] <Beret> it's not a pattern that you see anywhere else
[13:22] <Beret> seb128, again - give me another example of an OS that does this
[13:23] <Beret> people have complained (both upstream and specifically with ubuntu) about the behavior
[13:24] <kenvandine> this is something that drives me nuts
[13:24] <Beret> yes
[13:24] <seb128> I've been using only Ubuntu for 15+ years so I don't know what other OSes do
[13:25] <Beret> then let me help you, they don't do this
[13:25] <seb128> kenvandine, the feature or the fact that it wrongly displays it in cases where the app do get the focus?
[13:25] <Beret> they don't assume they know better than the user
[13:25] <kenvandine> the "feature"
[13:25] <Beret> it's a bug, not a feature :)
[13:25] <kenvandine> GNOME describes it as a feature
[13:25] <Beret> I'm aware
[13:25] <Beret> I've read the upstream bug
[13:25] <kenvandine> and i sort of understand the thinking...
[13:25] <seb128> Beret, I don't feel like that's a valid angle, we don't aim at copying what other OSes do and I'm sure I could find you examples of things we do than no other OS do and where you think we are right to be different because we are better
[13:26] <kenvandine> but in practice we shouldn't really see this
[13:26] <seb128> I still believe the issue people complain about is that it shows in cases where it shouldn't which is a bug
[13:26] <kenvandine> my argument is if i clicked an icon to launch an app, then my intention is to raise it to the front
[13:26] <Beret> seb128, my point is that if you think through this design, it's broken and there is no external validation anywhere that lends credence to this being expected or normal behavior
[13:26] <Beret> I don't care about doing what others do, but I care about doing the right thing
[13:27] <seb128> Beret, would you agree to make the icon dance on the launcher like unity was or do you think that would be wrong?
[13:27] <Beret> that's just fine
[13:27] <Beret> it doesn't get in my way and doesn't steal focus or tell me useless things
[13:27] <Beret> here's my fundamental problem
[13:27] <seb128> 'steal focus' you mean mental focus, not actual input from keyboard right?
[13:28] <Beret> you can't simultaneously tell me that I choose to launch an application and then that application is stealing focus
[13:28] <Beret> that's you telling me that you know more than I do as the users
[13:28] <Beret> and that's wrong
[13:28] <seb128> that's not what it tells you
[13:28] <Beret> um
[13:28] <Beret> you do realize it's focus-stealing prevention heuristics that are the problem right?
[13:29] <seb128> it's there to tell you that this chromium snap you started 45 seconds ago is finally ready to use so you can go back to it
[13:29] <Beret> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/-/issues/358
[13:29] <seb128> you are not arguing that we should kill focus stealing prevention now?
[13:29] <Beret> no, I'm specifically arguing against the notificstions associated with it
[13:30] <seb128> right
[13:30] <seb128> kenvandine seems to argue against the focus stealing prevention
[13:30] <kenvandine> i just tested this scenario on fedora 32
[13:30] <seb128> Beret, don't get me wrong, I do think that it's currently buggy and I agree it's annoying
[13:31] <kenvandine> no notification and no focus stealing prevention
[13:31] <seb128> I just believe it's a bug, in most cases the app is quick enough to start and gets focus and there should be no notification
[13:31] <kenvandine> i deleted the chromium profile, so it would be slow to start
[13:31] <kenvandine> clicked the icon
[13:31] <kenvandine> focused a terminal and started typing
[13:31] <kenvandine> 30 seconds later chromium stole focus
[13:31] <kenvandine> while i was typing
[13:31] <seb128> shrug
[13:32] <seb128> wayland being buggy?
[13:32] <kenvandine> maybe
[13:32] <kenvandine> but
[13:32] <kenvandine> i didn't mind
[13:32] <kenvandine> because i had initiated the launch
[13:32] <Beret> I'm with ken
[13:32] <seb128> you sure would have if it was telegram that finally started and that you were typing your gpg passphrase on that command line
[13:33] <seb128> and you ended up sending your passphrase to the group telegram opened on
[13:33] <kenvandine> ideally we should never run into this
[13:33] <kenvandine> as apps should launch quick enough :)
[13:33] <seb128> if they were we would not have that discussion
[13:33] <kenvandine> after the first launch of chromium, i can't even manage to focus another window before it starts
[13:33] <seb128> real world is made of electron apps
[13:34] <seb128> stop leaving on a i7 ssd and join real world of our users, get an i3 with rotational disk :)
[13:34] <kenvandine> :)
[13:34] <seb128> living*
[13:34] <kenvandine> those still exist? :-D
[13:34] <kenvandine> actually, this makes me wonder what happens under wayland on ubuntu
[13:34]  * seb128 slaps kenvandine with a trout
[13:35] <kenvandine> lol
[13:35]  * kenvandine tests
[13:35] <seb128> sorry, old IRC habit :p
[13:35] <kenvandine> oh i remember :)
[13:35] <seb128> :-)
[13:36] <ogra> we should just go back to unity ...
[13:36] <kenvandine> i did like what unity did
[13:36] <seb128> Beret, anyway, sorry it turned into a discussion again. It does sound like it's creating more annoyance than being useful from the feedback we are getting so we should probably consider disable the feature for now, ideally we would fix the bug or better do the dock animation but it doesn't sound like we are finding the resources for that atm
[13:37] <ogra> yes, it is superior in sooo many ways regarding usability
[13:37] <seb128> let's not start on that path
[13:37] <ogra> yeah, i'm quiet now 🙂
[13:37] <seb128> it's making some people here sad when we go there
[13:37] <ogra> well, that include me ...
[13:38] <ogra> *includes
[13:38] <seb128> not for the same reason though!
[13:38] <kenvandine> tested with wayland on focal
[13:38] <ogra> as a user only indeed
[13:38] <kenvandine> focus stealing prevention worked just like it does on X
[13:38] <kenvandine> so it's either broken or disabled on fedora-32
[13:38] <seb128> kenvandine, is fedora patching that out?
[13:39] <kenvandine> i doubt it
[13:39] <seb128> would be weird
[13:47] <oSoMoN> seb128, re bug #1901829, yes I think it's worth rls tagging, so I just did that, and I'm going to investigate a bit so we have more data to decide whether it's worth tracking in the next weekly meeting
[13:47] <oSoMoN> re messagingmenu extension, it's probably a leftover
[13:50] <seb128> oSoMoN, it does sound like to me that it's the extensions creating the problem, unsure how they ended up with having it still enabled though
[13:50] <seb128> it's not in the package anymore right?
[13:59] <oSoMoN> no
[14:03] <oSoMoN> wait, it looks like it is
[14:04] <oSoMoN> hrm, that's not expected
[14:04] <seb128> it's not showing in my UI though and can't be enabled
[14:06] <oSoMoN> yeah, because it's not compatible with that version of thunderbird… so I wonder why thunderbird was trying to load it anyway for that user
[14:06] <seb128> there is also a duplicate
[14:06] <seb128> weird
[14:07] <seb128> unless they have an old local version that didn't declare compatibility correctly?
[14:07] <seb128> hum, no, the error message is 'Error while loading 'jar:file:///usr/lib/thunderbird...4
[14:07] <seb128> '
[14:07] <seb128> so the system one
[14:29] <oSoMoN> ricotz, would you mind pushing your changes to the firefox-beta.* branches?
[14:30] <oSoMoN> (I just created the firefox.hirsute branch, and would like to do the same for the beta branch)
[14:36] <oSoMoN> seb128, bug #1901829 already has 3 duplicates, that's enough to be concerning, I'm looking into it right now
[14:36] <ricotz> oSoMoN, hi, please do it the other way around, push a copy of the current beta branch for groovy and merge back the relevant stable changes
[14:37] <oSoMoN> ricotz, ok
[14:42] <oSoMoN> ricotz, done: https://code.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox-beta.hirsute
[14:43] <seb128> oSoMoN, do you understand thunderbird profiles handling? I just started current tb 78, added an email account (autoconfigured by tb) and I get this profiles.ini
[14:43] <ricotz> oSoMoN, thanks, any relevant stable changes for the other series?
[14:43] <seb128> oSoMoN, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/77MRVmcvnw/
[14:43] <seb128> there is a 'default' which has Default=1
[14:44] <seb128> and a 'default-rekease'
[14:44] <seb128> release
[14:44] <seb128> which is the one in use it seems
[14:44] <seb128> (that's the one having its dir non empty)
[14:44] <seb128> why isn't it only one and why isn't Default=1 the default one?
[14:45] <seb128> oSoMoN, spoiler alert, it's what makes the apport hook fail to report profile info, which I noticed for a while and got annoyed enough by to decide to try to figure it out
[14:45] <oSoMoN> ricotz, the xenial branch has this patch which can be merged back: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox.xenial/view/head:/debian/patches/silence-gtk-style-assertions.patch
[14:47] <oSoMoN> seb128, it seems to be a relatively recent change in firefox and thunderbird: https://support.mozilla.org/gl/questions/1264072
[14:48] <seb128> oSoMoN, thanks, your google skills beat mine
[14:48] <oSoMoN> I'll add that to my linkedin profile
[14:48] <seb128> :-)
[14:48] <seb128> oSoMoN, I will make a patch to update the apport hook then, thanks!
[14:49] <oSoMoN> seb128, thanks, and if you don't mind please file a bug report for it, it will serve for SRUing the fix
[14:51] <oSoMoN> speaking of which, I'm going to validate the SRU tracked by bug #1900170
[14:52] <seb128> oSoMoN, do you really need a SRU bug for each details, that's going to be part or 68 -> 78, I doubt they care about checking the details of the apport script?
[14:52] <seb128> I'm fine opening one if you prefer
[14:52] <seb128> (and G serie is going to be through security update as usual thunderbird right?)
[14:52] <oSoMoN> seb128, that's right, let's just skip the bug report
[14:53] <seb128> thx
[15:01] <hellsworth> good morning desktopers
[15:01] <oSoMoN> morning hellsworth
[15:01] <hellsworth> hi there oSoMoN !
[15:30] <marcustomlinson> hey hellsworth
[16:25] <hellsworth> hey there marcustomlinson!
[16:35] <oSoMoN> seb128, I found the cause of bug #1901829, thanks to a French (of course!) forum post
[16:36] <oSoMoN> people installing a language pack from addons.thunderbird.net instead of using the proper package
[16:36] <oSoMoN> at least there is a workaround which I'm going to document
[16:37] <oSoMoN> and I wonder whether we can distro-patch to make thunderbird more robust
[16:42] <seb128> oSoMoN, great
[16:53] <marcustomlinson> oSoMoN: “If it weren't for the people, the god-damn people' said Finnerty, 'always getting tangled up in the machinery. If it weren't for them, the world would be an engineer's paradise.” - Kurt Vonnegut
[16:53] <marcustomlinson> :)
[17:00] <marcustomlinson> and with that... I’m out :D goodnight all
[17:07] <oSoMoN> good night marcustomlinson :)
[20:56] <luna_> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20201028/ no images build yet :(


[00:35] <knome> time to hit the bed
[00:35] <knome> nighty!
[00:36] <slickymaster> bighty night knome
[01:52] <bluesabre> yay, all bugs fixed https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfpanel-switch
[01:52] <bluesabre> now to add some sample layouts
[02:47] <bluesabre> added some sample layouts to https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xfpanel-switch-dev/xfpanel-switch/trunk/revision/25
[02:47] <bluesabre> if somebody wants to test it out by tomorrow evening, that'd be awesome ;)
[02:48] <bluesabre> bzr branch lp:xfpanel-switch; cd xfpanel-switch; ./configure; make; sudo make install; xfpanel-switch
[02:57] <jcjordyn120> hello
[02:58] <drc> world
[02:59] <jcjordyn120> i have a idea on the ubiquitty installer, I would like to be able to specify multible mount points on the custom partition screen
[03:02] <bluesabre> jcjordyn120: we don't maintain ubiquity, you'll want to reach out on #ubuntu-devel
[03:02] <drc> IIRC, the installer is solely a Ubuntu project, you'd probably do better on #ubuntu-installer.
[03:02] <bluesabre> even better ^
[03:02] <jcjordyn120> oh okay
[06:36] <flocculant> morning
[06:37] <flocculant> bluesabre: yes - the orange logout completely caught me offguard ... swiftly followed by the zz's on the hibernate one :p
[06:40] <flocculant> bluesabre: as soon as I see xfpanel change I'll check it
[08:54] <knome> slickymasterWork, we should take it here...
[08:54] <knome> so,
[08:54] <knome> splitting the package has its merits
[08:54] <knome> but it's not worth it
[08:54] <slickymasterWork> yeah, you're right about -devel :P
[08:54] <knome> because then flavors would need to track changes to the core
[08:55] <knome> well actually
[08:55] <knome> depends how it's built...
[08:55] <knome> it's over the top of my head anyway how that would work with one upstream
[08:56] <slickymasterWork> the way I see it, there are no obvious and worthy gains in splitting
[08:56] <knome> nope
[08:57] <knome> there is that one thing:
[08:57] <knome> each flavor could have upload rights to their own package
[08:57] <knome> but that would just mean we'd need even more updates per cycle
[08:57] <slickymasterWork> yes
[08:58] <knome> since there even isn't one uploader per flavor, that'd just mean more sponsored uploads as well
[09:00] <slickymasterWork> it's odd though, how just someone of the -docs team bother to answer the email
[09:00] <slickymasterWork> no news from any of the flavors
[09:01]  * knome shrugs
[09:01] <knome> in a way, i'm not surprised at all..
[09:02] <knome> partly because there is obviously a huge amount of uninteresting email
[09:02] <knome> and partly because... well, you know, sometimes you just don't care :P
[09:02] <slickymasterWork> or because they probably don't think ubiquity has such a relevancy
[09:02] <knome> yeah, i don't know
[09:03] <slickymasterWork> yes, which also makes think of something. if we went to a split solution, how would the maintenance of that package would end
[09:03] <knome> heh
[09:03] <slickymasterWork> I mean, not worrying about 'ours'
[09:03] <knome> it would mean that others were maintained better than others
[09:04] <slickymasterWork> yeah, but the all ubuntu ecosystem image would certainly suffer from that
[09:05] <knome> tbe,
[09:05] <knome> looking at the mailing list archives
[09:05] <knome> not all mailing list have got it
[09:05] <knome> well, meaning that it's likely sitting in the moderation queue
[09:06] <slickymasterWork> odd, I believe I got the bouncers mail from each
[09:06] <slickymasterWork> oh yeah
[09:06] <slickymasterWork> that maybe
[09:06] <knome> for example, there is no trace of the message on ubuntu-devel
[09:08] <slickymasterWork> but since gunnar answered CCing ubuntu-devel (and I'm assuming his email not blocked there) somehow the email allready went through
[09:10] <knome> right, actually now i see your mail too
[09:11] <knome> either i didn't just see it before or somebody literally just approved it
[09:11] <slickymasterWork> no Murphy's law there :)
[09:11] <knome> heh
[10:49] <bluesabre> Added Xubuntu Classic and Modern layouts for xfpanel-switch
[10:49] <bluesabre> current layouts: https://imgur.com/a/FbsEe
[11:06] <slickymasterWork> fancy bluesabre
[11:33]  * bluesabre bows
[11:34] <bluesabre> should have a new release tonight.  will upload that with the new layouts once I work out the final bugs
[11:37] <slickymasterWork> great \o/
[11:41]  * bluesabre is tempted to add that (layouts) to the artwork bp to undo ochosi's victory cheer
[11:43] <bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
[11:44] <slickymasterWork> hf bluesabre
[13:54] <jjfrv8> bluesabre, I pulled and compiled your version of xfpanel-switch but it seems to have a different problem now.
[13:54] <jjfrv8> Regardless of what kind of changes I make to the panel, when I save and then restore, it always reverts back to the default panel.
[13:54] <jjfrv8> Switching among all of the sample layouts works fine, but restoring a custom, saved panel always restores the default panel instead.
[13:54] <jjfrv8> Tried it on two different machines. Hope I'm not doing something stupid.
[15:05] <slickymasterWork> mr krytarik and mr dkessel -> https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/wily/+pots/desktop-guide/de/+translate?show=untranslated
[15:05] <slickymasterWork> mr knome -> https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/wily/+pots/desktop-guide/fi/+translate?show=untranslated
[15:06] <slickymasterWork> GridCube -> https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/wily/+pots/desktop-guide/es/+translate?show=untranslated
[15:06] <slickymasterWork> :)
[15:12] <GridCube> passing it to mrtulias slickymasterWork :D he has done all translations lately and recently got into the translation team so he doesnt need to be aproved
[15:12] <slickymasterWork> great
[15:12] <slickymasterWork> thanks for that GridCube
[15:13] <GridCube> :)
[15:16] <slickymasterWork> krytarik, knome, new wily box with today's image, here's the error I'm getting when building locally the documentation:
[15:17] <slickymasterWork> http://pastebin.com/nQQnH8Ga
[15:26] <krytarik> slickymasterWork: That all?
[15:26] <slickymasterWork> my first ping or the second one?
[15:26] <krytarik> Second.
[15:26] <slickymasterWork> yeaps, that's all it spit out
[15:27] <slickymasterWork> errors that is
[15:28] <krytarik> slickymasterWork: Sure you have all build depends installed?
[15:28] <slickymasterWork> yes, bzr, xsltproc docbook-xsl and fop
[15:29] <slickymasterWork> are there any others I'm not aware of?
[15:29] <slickymasterWork> anyway it didn't nag about any dependency issues
[15:31] <slickymasterWork> and it's only giving the english language
[15:32] <slickymasterWork> neither Deutsch, español, suomi, français and português languages are available, both html and pdf
[15:32] <krytarik> slickymasterWork: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/wily/view/head:/debian/control :P
[15:33] <slickymasterWork> now he tells me :P
[15:36] <slickymasterWork> ok krytarik, going to install the missing ones so you can deal with my first ping :P
[15:36] <krytarik> lol
[16:27] <knome> slickymasterWork, pushed new revision with your fix
[16:27] <knome> slickymasterWork, also, if you translated the pdf link stuff, you have to translate it again now :P
[16:27] <slickymasterWork> great, thanks for the first
[16:27] <slickymasterWork> not so thanks for the later :P
[16:27] <slickymasterWork> ;)
[16:27] <knome> that's what you get for being too motivated
[16:27] <slickymasterWork> lol
[16:28] <knome> wife is currently reading a book called "creative lazyness"
[16:28] <knome> would work for you too..
[16:30] <slickymasterWork> lol, I bet I'd love to see it... in finnish
[16:30] <knome> yep
[16:38] <davmor2> If you're that lazy that you need to read a book you'll never finish it anyway right
[16:39] <flocculant> if you're that lazy - you'd want an audiobook ...
[16:39] <flocculant> translated obviously :p
[16:39] <davmor2> man then you got to listen to it and everything
[16:39] <flocculant> ha ha
[20:53] <ochosi> bluesabre: awesome work on the layouts! i presume you'll keep those screenshots around for the release announcement ;)
[20:56] <ochosi> bluesabre: also, nice work on the bugfixes! and actually i think the presets we're shipping with this release are good enough. it's ok to ship more or work on that for the next release (i'm still somewhat surprised how we managed to actually finalize xfpanel-switch for 15.10)
[21:14] <ochosi> bluesabre: also, just so you can have some fun i just pushed a more consistent restart icon for our logout dialog (and so that flocculant is even more confused about that ;))
[21:33] <ochosi> bluesabre: and just to tease you, i pushed a better shutdown icon too... :>
[21:34] <ochosi> (only hibernate and suspend to go)
[21:51] <bluesabre> ochosi: nice
[21:51] <bluesabre> planning to have them done tonight for one last upload?
[21:51] <bluesabre> ochosi: I'll make better screenshots for the release announcement
[21:51] <knome> ochosi, btw, jjfrv8 is waiting you to review the thunar docs
[21:54] <ochosi> bluesabre: not sure i can make hibernate and suspend in time
[21:56] <knome> ochosi, you have the ideas for those?
[21:56] <knome> ochosi, or do you just plan to "refresh" the current style
[21:57] <bluesabre> ochosi: cool, np. I'll upload whatever is up tomorrow morning before I go to work
[21:57]  * knome wonders where Unit193 is lurking
[21:58] <ochosi> knome: not really, no. i think the suspend icon is sorta ok (it's a clock)
[21:59] <ochosi> the hibernate icon is still the old clock style
[22:01] <knome> Unit193, anything new from alessio or Corsac?
[22:01] <bluesabre> gotta run again, bbabl
[22:01] <knome> Unit193, have you done the changes m requested in the reviews?
[22:02] <knome> Unit193, any news about the packageset application process?
[22:03] <bluesabre> knome really likes green bars
[22:03] <bluesabre> running out
[22:04] <knome> ;)
[22:04] <knome> hf bluesabre
[22:14] <Unit193> Nope, Nope, Nope.
[22:21] <knome> Unit193, let's change the middle nope
[22:21] <knome> :P
[22:40] <Unit193> knome: https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/debian-cd/xubuntu-core/+merge/267879 I disagree.
[22:41] <Unit193> Unless you think that bluesabre and you want to create two sets of release notes, I doubt it though.
[22:42] <knome> i don't. we can simply mention that -core is different
[22:42] <Unit193> Yep.
[22:42] <knome> the question can be revisited for 16.04 anyway.
[22:43] <knome> for now, i think it would just make sense to get things rolling.
[22:43] <knome> then iterate with it
[22:45] <bluesabre> +1
[22:47] <Unit193> How do I  get rebase -i  with bzr?
[22:47]  * bluesabre does not know
[22:50] <knome> from http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/beta/en/user-guide/adv_merging.html: "Rebasing is supported in Bazaar by the rebase command provided by the rebase plugin."
 Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
[23:26] <knome> well whatever the term is
[23:26] <knome> if yes, why don't you poke people on u-devel or u-release?


[00:21] <George_e> "Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server."
[00:21] <George_e> "Try reloading this page in a minute or two. If the problem persists, let us know in the #launchpad IRC channel on Freenode."
[00:21] <George_e> So I'm letting you know.
[00:29] <Muscovy> Is bazaar.launchpad.net working currently?
[00:45] <George_e> Muscovy: No. It's not.
[00:45] <George_e> There must be some problem with it.
[01:12] <jsjg> For the last 90 mins. I get timed out on http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/lucid/plymouth/lucid/files
[01:12] <jsjg> The message suggested that I note that here
[01:12] <Muscovy> jsjg: Same issue here.
[02:01] <lifeless> jsjg: Muscovy: Hi, looking at it
[02:19] <jsjg> Muscovy: Thanks--just thought I'd speak up in case it wasn't known
[07:01] <frogman> can't....see...branch
[07:01] <frogman> :(
[07:01] <frogman> hello?
[08:41] <DexterLB> hi
[08:41] <DexterLB> is there anything like cia but for bzr?
[09:34] <bilalakhtar> The branch reviewer is timing out repeatedly
[09:34] <bilalakhtar> *viewer
[09:34] <bilalakhtar> 'Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server. '
[09:55] <maxb> losa ping (though I guess not, since it's Sunday): codebrowse is dead dead dead!
[10:00] <lifeless> spm: if you happen to see this; code-bounce-time; will escalate at a reasonable london time
[10:02] <bilalakhtar> maxb: You're right. I reported the same problem around an hour ago
[10:03] <bilalakhtar> lifeless: yesterday it was e-mail interface, today its loggerhead
[10:11] <bilalakhtar> maxb: same problem here. Why do these things take place on weekends?
[10:38] <vitel> hi all
[10:38] <vitel> I get "Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server." while trying to open
[10:39] <vitel> this http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~beagleboard-kernel/+junk/2.6-stable/files
[10:39] <bilalakhtar> vitel: Everyone is facing it!
[10:39] <bilalakhtar> Read the channel topic
[10:39] <vitel> Is there a workaround?
[10:39] <bilalakhtar> vitel: nope
[10:39] <vitel> Is there any way to fetch files?
[10:40] <vitel> svn/git
[10:40] <bilalakhtar> vitel: yes there is
[10:40] <bilalakhtar> vitel: code hosting is working, browsing isn't
[10:41] <bilalakhtar> vitel: use bzr to download branches
[10:41] <vitel> omg
[10:41] <vitel> bzr
[10:41] <vitel> I have never used this before
[10:41] <vitel> OK thanks for the info i will try
[10:50] <lifeless> topic
[10:51] <bilalakhtar> Thanks lifeless !
[10:53] <lifeless> I'm going to escalate shortly; hoping someone will see the pings I've set first
[10:58] <bilalakhtar> BTW, lifeless where do you ping? The sysadmin channel is empty!
[10:58] <bilalakhtar> Empty means no discussion
[10:58] <bilalakhtar> perhaps PMs
[10:58] <lifeless> Staff channel
[10:59] <lifeless> different server
[14:19] <tbsdy_lives> any issues with launchpad? it says it is having issues with connecting to the launchpad server...
[20:59] <ricotz> please, could someone restart https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ppa/+build/1945560 which is stuck


[17:12] <cfhowlett> ubuntustudio meeting here?
[17:12] <holstein> cfhowlett: we might just meet in the #ubuntustudio-devel channel informally today
[17:13] <holstein> lots of folks in and out
[17:13] <cfhowlett> holstein   tyvm
[17:13] <astraljava> Yeah, might be more probable that way.
[17:16] <len> is this the meeting?
[17:19] <holstein> len: we are just going to hang in the dev channel i believe


[15:00] <electricdjinn> Hello!  I am having trouble signing the Ubuntu Code of Conduct...my key is imported, I signed/ASCIIfied the CoC, I can successfully verify the signed file, but when I drop it into the text box on Launchpad, I get (7, 8, u'Bad signature').  I can't seem to find anything on answers.l.n that gets me unblocked, any thoughts?
[15:04] <electricdjinn> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/679427
[20:34] <jhobbs> is there a way to set a default target branch for a git repo? just to have the "Target branch" box filled out when a MP is made?
[22:52] <cjwatson> jhobbs: Fairly high up my list, but not done.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1689208
[22:52] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1689208 in Launchpad itself "Target reference path should default to target repository's default branch" [High,Triaged]
[22:53] <cjwatson> (It's not trivial because you can change the target repository and so it requires JS to maybe change the target branch as well when you do that.)
[23:26] <jhobbs> cjwatson: cool! thank for the info


[21:06] <studio-user586> I,m totally new to Ubuntu studio and want some help setting up my sound hardware to make music
[22:07] <vlt> studio-user586: What di you try so far? What hardware?
[22:07] <studio-user586> can I use an on-board sound card to start?
[22:09] <vlt> studio-user586: Of course.
[22:11] <studio-user586> I'm trying to set up LMMS to use my on board card and am clueless as to what settings I should use with my realtek  sound chip
[22:26] <studio-user586> should I be using qjackctl with LMMS?
[22:45] <studio-user586> am I in the wrong forum?
[23:18] <studio-user586> gotta go. thank you for the information.


[05:27] <wist> hey guys, i just installed edubuntu recently, but there's no traceroute command do i need to install a specific package for that ?
[05:29] <Laser_away> wist: yeah, traceroute
[05:29] <wist> Laser_away i said that there is no traceroute command ...
[05:30] <Laser_away> so install the traceroute package
[05:30] <wist> is that the name ?
[05:30] <Laser_away> yes
[05:30] <wist> apt-get install traceroute
[05:30] <wist> hmm
[05:30] <wist> :\
[05:30] <wist> working
[05:31] <wist> :x   sorry and thanks.
[05:31] <Laser_away> np
[05:49] <wist> where can i see a list of available packages
[05:49] <wist> apt-get <something> ?
[05:49] <wist> can't find an option for that ..
[05:50] <wist> (available for download, that is)
[06:10] <hj> Hi guys, ... have any of you are using a learning management system ?
[01:22] <m300107> Hello, anyone there? I'm trying to install a thin client with a minimal OS on its 3.2 GB disk so that I can boot over the network without needing a cdrom etc. Any ideas? Thanks
[01:30] <highvoltage> m300107: you can use etherboot
[01:30] <highvoltage> m300107: http://www.rom-o-matic.net
[01:36] <m300107> Thanks I've got an etherboot cdrom but it doesnt seem to pick up my NIC. I'm trying to boot with helix to see the lspci card output for the NIC, but since I've got a small hard drive it might be simpler and quicker to boot up on that
[01:37] <cliebow>  m300107:can you boot to ubuntu live cd/install cd and get a pci id?
[01:39] <cliebow> or knoppix or mandrake move?
I'm trying to boot with my Helix CD right now, but am having problems with the boot parms because it's got almost NO memory
[01:43] <cliebow> can you see the chip:get any info from it?
[01:44] <cliebow> you/ll need prob 128 for ubuntu..i get by with 32 in ltsp-4.2
[01:44] <cliebow> as far as a thin client is concerned
[01:50] <m300107> I'm still trying to read the lspci output for the card by boot the machine up. But this is proving a big headache with 32M. Can you get this info straight off the card?
[01:52] <cliebow> prob not..unless it is obvious..like rtl8139 or 3com
[01:58] <m300107> Er netgear, not much information from their website either
[02:17] <m300107> ahh at last, lspci output. The ethernet controller for the netgear card:
[02:17] <cliebow> that is tough without the pci id..since some are via-rhine and some are other
[02:18] <m300107> 0000:00:08.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co.,Ltd RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ (rev 10)
[02:19] <m300107> So I guess that's the code I need for the rom-o-matic thing
[02:19] <cliebow> ok that is the slot
[02:19] <cliebow> now lspci -n for the id
[02:19] <cliebow> in thaT SLOT
[02:20] <cliebow> prob ends with 8139
[02:21] <cliebow> 10ec:8139?
[02:21] <m300107> Ah, OK, looks like 10ec:8139
[02:21] <m300107> good guess!
[02:22] <cliebow> i use a lot of them..they tend to be very easy
[02:22] <cliebow> you cana use whatever version you like but 5.0.11 has been rock solid for years
[02:22] <cliebow> in etherboot
[02:22] <m300107> Now off to Rom-o-matic again for the etherboot cd, because this disk is just too slow. my fingers were itching for a tuxracer thing for ages
[02:23] <cliebow> heh..id be surprised if the cd doesnt have it..can you just boot from floppy?
[02:23] <cliebow> for starters?
[02:24] <m300107> none of my other machines have floppy, so it'd be a bit hard to transfer the image. this machine is wonderfullly built inside but just too old
[02:25] <cliebow> ive neverused the cd...not a prom slot anywhere?
[02:25] <cliebow> they do have a floppy controller ?
[02:26] <cliebow> bbiab
[02:37] <m300107> Hi got it to boot. Problem now is that my DHCP server is a OpenWRT Linksys with no space on it. The TS will have to be my Ubuntu 6.10 file server on <IP_ADDRESS>. So I guess I'll have to tweak the rom-o-matic setting "DEFAULT_BOOTFILE" to point to <IP_ADDRESS>. Where are the boot files kept? Which ports do I have to open in the firewall?
[02:42] <m300107> I've installed the edubuntu-server package
[02:59] <m300107> ... but I can't find any files under /opt/ - anyone know how to install them under Ubuntu 6.10
[03:25] <bddebian> Heya
[03:25] <cliebow>  m300107:you'd be better off to shut off dhcp in the router and run dhcp on the ts
[03:25] <cliebow> m300107:apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone
[03:26] <cliebow> that Will turn on dhcp in your ts.
[03:26] <cliebow> best to hard code an address for your server nic
[03:30] <m300107> [headache factor increasing by 10]  but the router is the only thing here that stays on all the time, and it gives DHCP address to other clients too.
[03:31] <m300107> I guess I could use the TS to give out a different range within the same subnet mask. The router would still let them in, wouldn't it?
[03:33] <m300107> hard-coding the server nic: those are the static_server_ip options in the ROM-O-Matic options, I guess.
[03:37] <cliebow> you will not get a root-path from your router on second dhcp if you dont do something] ..i habvnt messed with those options..best not ot
[03:38] <cliebow> you could put a second nic in..one for your clients on a seperate switch..one for your reg network
[03:39] <cliebow> andf hard code the "internal" nic
[03:39] <m300107> I've got the schooltool listening on 7080 on my TS
[03:39] <m300107> second nic might be the thing, though
[03:40] <cliebow> OR..[headache factor increasing]  you could use alternate port for your dhcp
[03:41] <m300107> this is only  a home network, i can use a a range within the dhcp addresses from my router for the 1 or 2 thin clients.
[03:42] <m300107> then the rom-o-matic settings include a STATIC_BOOTFILE setting which I could perhaps set to the TS. [hoping not to have to reset my dhcp / router settings]
[03:43] <cbx33> hey all
[03:44] <cliebow> m300107:dang your nick is long.you cant use that dhcp to provide filename or root-path can you?
[03:45] <cliebow> cbx33:howdy
[03:45] <cbx33> hi cliebow
[03:46] <m300107> cliebow you been whois me? this is my laptop. not the old piece of junk i want to give to my daughter on mon
[03:46] <m300107> :-)
[03:47] <cliebow> no i havnt but m3 etc etc is a little vgerbose 8~)
[03:47] <cliebow> by the way ..i do givge typing lessons
[03:53] <m300107> OK, I'm going to give up on my router settings and setup DHCP on the TS as you suggest
[03:55] <cliebow> the big thing is what you are going to boot with...a floppy is easy..never tried alternate dhcp from a cd..
[03:55] <cbx33> hmmm
[03:57] <cliebow> m300107:ive always d/l ed etherboot source and changed dhcp call myself..never used the port 1067 provided by etherboot
 which extra ports should I open on my server for the dhcp and terminal server?
[04:03] <cliebow> you'll need 67/8 for dhcp 69 for tftp 2049 for nfs 6000 for x ssh on 22 if using edubuntu-ltsp
[04:03] <m300107> cliebow: how do you change the dhcp call? I guess it is easier to alter a floppy, but which settings
[04:04] <m300107> thx
[04:04] <cliebow> ltsp-server-standalone does most for you...to change dhcp listening port in /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server add -p 1067 to the startup call..looki nwiki./.ltsp.org for dhcp alternate port
[04:05] <cliebow> il be back in a bit
[05:42] <m300107> have reconfigured the server for dhcp and installed the ltsp-server-standalone, found ltsp-build-client because there were no client images pre-installed. the
[05:42] <m300107> will the  ltsp-build-client give me the images for the etherboot?
[05:43] <cbx33> oooh mumma, phimage is looking nice now ;)
[05:46] <m300107> what is phimage?
[05:47] <cliebow>  no you will need your own etherboot..did you switch to port 1067?
[05:49] <m300107> haven't got back to the client for all that excitement with LTSP installations and reconfig of DHCP
[05:49] <m300107> bbia minute...
[05:58] <cliebow> --exec /usr/sbin/dhcpd3 -- -q -p 1001 $INTERFACES -pf $D
[05:58] <cliebow> line from dhcp3-server to use 1001
[06:00] <m300108> thanks
[06:01] <m300108> cliebow, can you repeat those lines again re dhcpd3, had to switch computer because the monsters wanted to watch a dvd.
 --exec /usr/sbin/dhcpd3 -- -q -p 1001 $INTERFACES -pf $D
 line from dhcp3-server to use 1001
[06:04] <m300108> what was the line before --exec /usr/sbin/dhcpd3? Sorry, lost the context
  no you will need your own etherboot..did you switch to port 1067?
[06:05] <m300108> no, haven't switched yet. Do I need an extra DHCP listener on that port?
[06:08] <m300108> sorry for butting in cbx33 - lost the context
[06:09] <cbx33> m300108, I'm pasting in all that cliebow sent to you
[06:12] <m300108> Oh thanks cbx33
[06:13] <cliebow> --exec /usr/sbin/dhcpd3 -- -q -p 1001 $INTERFACES -pf $D
[06:13] <cliebow> just add -p 1067   or whatever..that is fgrom a working server
[06:24] <m300108> I've got DHCP up and the client is looking for /ltsp/i386/nbi.img (am still booting from cdrom). the client-build prog installed a whole distro under /opt/ltsp/i386/
[06:24] <m300108>  but no image file. I've got no floppy drive outside this ancient box w/ exception an old sun box here. How do I get the boot image?
[06:25] <m300108> The /etc/ltsp/dhcp.conf points to an image file:
[06:25] <m300108>  if substring( option vendor-class-identifier, 0, 9 ) = "PXEClient" {
[06:25] <m300108>     filename "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0";
[06:25] <m300108>   }
[06:25] <m300108>   else{
[06:25] <m300108>     filename "/ltsp/i386/nbi.img";
[06:25] <m300108>   }
[06:25] <m300108>   option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386";
[06:25] <m300108> }
[06:28] <m300108> AH, the files seem to be in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/ - let's see if I can link them in..
[06:33] <m300108> Right, I never thought I'd get excited about seeing dots march across the screen, but this ancient box looks like it might be booting. It is _very_ slow though. Shouldn't it be fast on a server?
[06:33] <m300108> the thing it is running on is amd64
[06:33] <cliebow> takes my dots about 3/4 of a second
[06:34] <m300108> hmm, may be a firewall issue then.
[06:35] <cliebow> no your etherboot is still looking at port 67? and trying to get a filename from your router..
[06:35] <cliebow> leem get the pice for you that gives the initramfs correct port to do second dhcp
[06:36] <m300108> didn't alter the etherboot settings on either client or server
[06:36] <m300108> my router doesn't have much space on it for image files.
[06:37] <cliebow> it is not smart enough to give the filename statement anyway
[06:37] <cliebow> option option-128 e4:45:74:68:00:00;
[06:37] <cliebow> option option-129 "DPORT=1001";
[06:38] <cliebow> that tells the initramfs that at second dhcp..looking for option root-path..to use port 1001
[06:38] <m300108> are those lines in /etc/ltsp/dhcp.conf?
[06:39] <cliebow> yes
[06:39] <m300108> option option-128 e4:45:74:68:00:00; -is that MAC-address-specific?
[06:42] <cliebow> No No
[06:42] <cliebow> NOT a Mac address
[06:43] <m300108> I put those lines in but a restart of /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart caused errors: dhcpd self-test failed. Please fix the config file.
[06:44] <cliebow> it looks like only later versions than 5.0.11 will let yo change alternate dhcp port (from the website).it can be done manually using source code
[06:44] <cliebow> prob left out a semicolon
[06:47] <cliebow> those lines taken from a working server...
[06:49] <m300108> Lines:  option option-128 e4:45:74:68:00:00;
[06:49] <m300108>   option option-129 "DPORT=1001";
[06:49] <m300108> sorry bbiab
[06:50] <cliebow> i gotta run too..bbl
[07:41] <m300108> OK, my installation hadn't booted TFTPd, now I've kickstarted that on port 69 UDP and it started to boot up fine. :-).
[07:47] <m300108> But then, there was a boot message: "Target filesystem doesn't have /sbin/init" on the client, and it drops me into some busybox shell. (The client-build command installed a Debian / Ubuntu system. "/bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off"
[07:54] <cliebow>  you didnt mix ltsp4.2 and 5?
[07:57] <cliebow> i have to run.bbl
[09:05] <m300108> Hi folks
[09:06] <m300108> it seems to work now. I copied my /etc/passwd group and shadow over to the /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ but can't log in
[09:08] <m300108> But I guess I'll get by with a bit of tweaking now. The screen resolution is rather poor. Is this due to the local graphics card? I was hoping this'd be at least partly handled by the TS
[09:17] <m300108> have to go, thanks cliebow
[11:33] <LaserJock> hi cbx33
[11:39] <pete_> evenin all
[11:44] <cbx33> evenin LaserJock
[12:01] <tsmithe> !info linux-lowlatency feisty | cbx33
[12:01] <ubotu> cbx33: linux-lowlatency: Complete low latency Linux kernel. In component multiverse, is optional. Version <IP_ADDRESS>.1 (feisty), package size 23 kB, installed size 52 kB
[12:01] <cbx33> thanks tsmithe
[12:01] <cbx33> didn't know you hung out in here too
[12:01] <cbx33> how much work would it be to install it on edgy?
[12:03] <tsmithe> dunno
[12:03] <tsmithe> prevu?
[12:03] <tsmithe> and i don't hang here. just saw you were, and knew that it was a channel with ubotu and thought i'd point it out
[12:05] <cbx33> heh
[12:05] <cbx33> thanks tsmithe
[12:05] <tsmithe> :)