[01:16] <ESphynx> xnox: did you have a chance to take a look at the ecere-sdk package on Mentors? :)
[03:49] <micahg> jbicha_: I assume you filed an FFe before me for bignumber.js?  I went to sync it and saw it was already done
[07:01] <dholbach> good morning
[07:02] <geser> good morning


[03:33] <josephnexus> hello everyone!
[03:34] <josephnexus> i'm trying to set up ltsp and all that my thin clients get when trying to boot is File Not Found
[03:34] <josephnexus> i can connect locally using a tftp client
[03:34] <josephnexus> but for some reason none of my clients can connect
[03:34] <josephnexus> they do get a dhcp address
[03:34] <josephnexus> any ideas?
[03:35] <josephnexus> brb
[03:38] <josephnexus> back
[03:38] <josephnexus> anyone get any ideas about my problem?
[03:41] <josephnexus> gonna try chaning my interfaces
[18:10] <wima> i'm noticing some problems with local devices lately
[18:10] <wima> devices are not mounted anymore when i plug them in
[18:11] <wima> on the old server everything worked fine
[18:11] <wima> i used udev to change permissions on /dev/fuse so i didnt have to add all users to the fuse group
[18:12] <wima> (users are in an ldap db)
[18:12] <wima> it used to work fine
[18:12] <wima> installed a new server, and it doesn't work anymore
[18:12] <wima> does anyone have an idea?
[18:13] <wima> id i add the user to the fuse group, it works
[18:20] <ogra> the mounting tool is suid fuse iirc (was changed because users tended to change permissions of the devcie which introduced security holes :) )
[18:21] <wima> ah
[18:21] <wima> is there anything i can do about it?
[18:22] <wima> i'm not really looking forward to putting all the ldap users in the fuse group
[18:22] <ogra> have a look at /bin/fusermount
[18:23] <wima> -rwsr-xr-- root fuse
[18:24] <wima> what does this mean?
[18:24] <wima> hat it will alwaus execute as root?
[18:25] <ogra> no
[18:26] <ogra> that it has a stick group bit set
[18:26] <ogra> so it will always execute as group fuse
[18:26] <wima> right
[18:27] <wima> and why is this a problem?
[18:28] <wima> i meqn
[18:28] <wima> where is the permission problem
[18:29] <ogra> you need to be in eh fuse group
[18:29] <ogra> remove the sticky bit and change it to root.root
[18:30] <wima> ok
[18:30] <wima> thanks
[18:30] <wima> btw: is anyone considering doing something about this?
[18:31] <ogra> not me
[18:31]  * ogra wont break security and doesnt really care about misconfigured ldap setups
[18:32] <wima> you would put the ldap users in the fuse group?
[18:32] <ogra> just have a script that adds users to the right group instead of ripping open security holes
[18:32] <wima> wasn't there a pam module to do this?
[18:41] <wima> ah. found it!
[18:41] <wima> pam_group
[18:41] <ogra> yeah, thats the one
[18:41] <ogra> way cleaner :)
[18:42] <wima> super
[18:42] <wima> thanks
[19:37] <LaserJock> ogra: hi
[20:40] <LaserJock> ogra: how's it going over there?
[20:41] <ogra> LaserJock, busy
[20:41] <LaserJock> ogra: cmpc?
[20:41] <ogra> but at least i have released a classmate RC yesterday
[20:41] <LaserJock> oh, for intrepid?
[20:41] <ogra> cmpc, my move into mobile ... my older duties i try to get rid of etc
[20:41] <ogra> nope hardy
[20:41] <LaserJock> k
[20:42] <LaserJock> is it on p.u.c/~ogra/ ?
[20:42] <ogra> yep
[20:42] <LaserJock> k
[20:42] <ogra> usual place
[20:42] <LaserJock> I'll try it out today
[20:42] <ogra> focusing on the newer celeron devices though
[20:42] <LaserJock> oh, will it still work on mine?
[20:42] <ogra> but will still work on the old ones
[20:42] <LaserJock> k, cool
[20:42] <ogra> yeah, it should
[20:43] <LaserJock> anything happening much in Education Edition ?
[20:43] <LaserJock> I was looking at some bugs the other day
[20:43] <LaserJock> squeak problems that I don't want to get into ;-)
[20:44] <LaserJock> with openjdk in Main I suppose some Java edu apps might be possible to add?
[20:45] <ogra> yeah
[20:45] <ogra> even though i think openjdk doesnt ship the browser plugin yet
[20:45] <ogra> i'll look inot the suqeak ftbfs if i find any time
[20:45] <LaserJock> ogra: I found the problem, and it's apparently still the same code in squeak-vm SVN
[20:46] <ogra> but trying to draw back from edu without anyone taking over isnt so easy
[20:46] <ogra> so it sticks to me
[20:46] <ogra> and i dont want to be evil
[20:46] <LaserJock> ogra: they have write() without and error checking or return value checking
[20:46] <ogra> eeek
[20:46] <LaserJock> well, the actually do check later if the write worked
[20:47] <LaserJock> but not via the return value
[20:47] <ogra> i think the edubuntu CD doesnt look to good atm due to recommends not being sorted yet
[20:47] <LaserJock> so with our new CFLAGS it FTBFS
[20:47] <LaserJock> ogra: is it oversized?
[20:47] <ogra> yeah
[20:47] <ogra> lol
[20:47] <ogra> we have 400M free
[20:47] <LaserJock> oh
[20:47] <LaserJock> cool
[20:47] <ogra> no way to get that oversized quickly
[20:48] <LaserJock> have you looked at all at whether Recommends will pull in non-Main packages?
[20:48] <ogra> they do apparently
[20:49] <ogra> stgraber looked at it more than i this cycle
[20:49] <LaserJock> k
[20:49] <LaserJock> ogra: get anywhere on the dynamic menu GUI? :-)
[20:50] <ogra> no, i think i'll have to drop it
[20:50] <ogra> as well as willow
[20:50] <LaserJock> did you get a start?
[20:50] <ogra> the only thing i'll have time for is compcache which is 80% implemented
[20:50] <ogra> no, not really
[20:50] <LaserJock> k
[20:50] <ogra> i'm working 14h/day in the mobile team
[20:51] <ogra> all i do in edu or ltsp is totally in spare time
[20:51] <LaserJock> ok
[20:51] <LaserJock> so what is compcache going to do?
[20:51] <ogra> cut down the ram reqs for ltsp clients and the liveCD
[20:51] <ogra> and for things like classmate
[20:52] <LaserJock> oh, that'd be nice
[20:52] <ogra> it cretes a compressed swapdevice in the systems ram
[20:52] <ogra> so you can gain up to 1§ more ram
[20:52] <ogra> 1/3
[20:52] <LaserJock> huh
[20:52] <LaserJock> what does that do to performance?
[20:52] <ogra> impacts it slightly
[20:53] <ogra> but not so much that it would disturb
[20:53] <LaserJock> does the cost of compression get compensated for by having it in RAM?
[20:53] <ogra> well, it adds CPU overhead
[20:54] <ogra> but yes, its in ram so no disk IO involved
[20:54] <LaserJock> right, that's what I meant by "CPU"
[20:54] <LaserJock> arg
[20:54] <LaserJock> meant by "cost"
[20:54] <LaserJock> ogra: are Edubuntu meetings still being held?
[20:56] <ogra> not actively recently, no
[20:56] <ogra> stgraber pushes from time to time ... but  think he gave up ... and we ended being only RichEd, him and me
[20:57] <ogra> but if there is no community interest what shall we do
[20:57] <LaserJock> yeah
[20:57] <LaserJock> I know what you mean
[21:43] <stgraber> yeah, I remember a time where edubuntu was a lot more active
[21:44] <ogra> yep
[21:44] <LaserJock> well, projects have cycles of activity too
[21:46] <LaserJock> I think edubuntu (or whatever it's being called) could get revived a bit :-)
[21:49] <ogra> yeah
[21:50] <stgraber> yeah, I think the main issue is that most of the community is still stuck at Edubuntu=Ubuntu+LTSP+edu softwares
[21:50] <stgraber> the move to an addon and ltsp to alternate wasn't that much understood
[21:50] <LaserJock> well
[21:50] <stgraber> at least that was the result of the 2-3 talks I gave about Edubuntu/LTSP/ubuntu education
[21:51] <LaserJock> I think a clear purpose, a clear mission, a clear Roadmap are helpful
[21:52] <LaserJock> there was definitely a shift of emphasis with LTSP moving out, but I'm not sure we really figured out what we wanted to with Ubuntu Education Edition
[21:53] <LaserJock> I'm gonna run home, bbiab
[22:51] <pmfranco> Hola Edubunteros
[22:51] <pmfranco> me pueden ayudar???
[22:52] <pmfranco> necesito encontrar themes para mi edubuntu, por favor


[00:32] <genii> There seems no manpage for prevu. Is there some documentation available?
[00:32] <genii> (I have already the wiki bookmarked)
[00:48] <Ekushey> what is the procedure of getting a package into the repo? any wiki pages?
[00:53] <Flannel> Ekushey: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing#head-f4c6048b1531f4e4fe48f096350ea435d40ed9f5 may help
[00:54] <Ekushey> thanks Flannel
[05:13] <arbir> hello
[05:13] <arbir> anybody here ?
[05:14] <persia> arbir: Indeed.  Welcome.
[05:14] <arbir> hi persia
[05:14] <arbir> i was redirected here from the ubuntu channel
[05:14] <arbir> i needed to know, how i can update my VLC to the latest version ?
[05:14] <persia> OK.  What was the query that resulted in the redirect?
[05:14] <arbir> i have ubuntu 8.x
[05:14] <persia> arbir: What do you mean by "latest version"?
[05:15] <arbir> we are at 0.8.6e while the latest is 0.8.6h
[05:15] <persia> Most recent version upstream?  Most recent version packaged?  Most recent version in the development repos?  Most recent version released?
[05:15] <persia> Ah.  OK.  Have you looked at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vlc
[05:15] <Flannel> persia: He's wondering why the packaged version is still 8.6e
[05:16] <arbir> well, thats too technical for me to answer :-). but i just thought i will mention it here.. sorry if i offended anybody
[05:16] <arbir> hey Flannel is here :-)
[05:16] <arbir> is looking at the link sent my persia
[05:16] <persia> arbir: No offense.  I'm just pointing at the place where you can see which versions are in each release.
[05:16] <genii> arbir: He's almost omnipresent
[05:16] <persia> Typically things go first into the development release (currently intrepid), and then filter down.
[05:17] <Flannel> persia: Intrepid has .6e too (at least, according to packages.ubuntu.com)
[05:17] <persia> Moving things through the process of upstream -> packaged -> development release -> backports is very much a manual process.
[05:17] <arbir> hmmm persia i was wondering, how come we are quite a ways behind in terms of version number
[05:17] <persia> So, if someone is interested, they do it.
[05:17] <arbir> persia: i see.. :-) very interesting...
[05:17] <persia> arbir: Most likely because 0.8.6e was current at the time of FeatureFreeze for hardy, and nobody has updated it since.
[05:19] <arbir> persia: just curious to know, if MOTU is also responsible for packaging other media players like Rythmbox etc ?
[05:19] <persia> Flannel: Yes it does.  I typically walk back through the path upstream when trying to determine "Why isn't this updated" to find the point where it needs work.  LP is the first stop, then packages.qa.d.o, then possibly a packaging VCS, and then upstream.
[05:24] <persia> arbir: MOTU is responsible for the state of the Universe repository: many of the people who work on packages are not MOTU.  Rhythmbox is in main, and I believe the desktop team takes care of it.
[05:25] <arbir> persia.. thank you very much. i appreciate your time to answer my lilttle questions.
[05:26] <persia> arbir: Thanks for asking.  There are many people who don't ask, and it's best to share ideas.
[05:27] <arbir> goodnight persia. maybe goodday where you might be now :-)
[05:27] <genii> persia: Of curiosity, is there some site you may know of which perhaps details someone's process of packaging? I'm trying to learn. Between prevu,dh_make,debuild and some others I'm getting frustrated. It would help to see someone elses process.
[05:28] <persia> genii: Packaging is very individual, because there are lots of right ways to do it.  The wiki page presents a few options.  My opinion is that the best way to learn is to look through existing packages.
[05:29] <persia> Personally, I prefer sbuild as a build tool (prevu is mostly good for backporting).  I don't like the dh_make templates.  I use debuild regularly to build source packages (`debuild -S`)
[05:29] <genii> persia: Well, tedious. But anything worth learning is worth doing the hard way I suppose
[05:30] <genii> (dissecting existing packages being the tedious thing)
[05:30] <persia> genii: Depends on the goal.  Learning packaging is like learning to play Go: it takes a while, and at the end you only understand how much you don't know.
[05:30] <persia> If one takes something like "closing bugs" as a goal, one ends up seeing lots of examples along the way.
[05:31]  * genii meditates on the concpt of Go
[05:31] <persia> As one learns more, one is able to generate one's own simple packages.
[05:31] <persia> If one seeks only to "learn packaging", one may be able to create a package which is policy-complaint, but may not understand why the package was constructed that way.
[05:32] <persia> This might impair a later attempt to "close bugs" if the packaging is sufficiently different.
[05:32] <genii> From what I can tell so far, the emphasis seems to be greatly on tracking the lineage and history
[05:33] <persia> Well, it's important to track lineage and history, for both social and legal reasons.  There's also a lot of interest in reducing duplication of work, so if something can be passed upstream, that is often good.
[05:34] <persia> However, the core of packaging is more about creating a framework that allows users to install, upgrade, remove, and purge a given piece of software without undue impact on their computer, and in such a way that it works well for them by default.
[05:34] <genii> Dependencies, etc
[05:35] <genii> Is there also some standard method for postinst and so on?
[05:36] <persia> Yes.  There are a number of standard postinst snippets that can be inserted by debhelper, although there is also a diverse body of lore about other ways to do things, or ways to do things that debhelper doesn't support.
[05:36] <genii> Hmm.
[05:37] <persia> (and I say "lore" because there is no single right answer, nor a correct interpretation, nor even any central location for such information)
[05:38] <persia> genii: That's why I say it is an odd goal to "learn packaging", as it gets complex at the edges, and takes a while.  Generally it's better to jump in and do stuff: learn through practice and review of candidate patches.
[05:38] <genii> OK. I guess I'll spend some more studying.
[05:38] <persia> As each obstacle is encountered, ask a question (here is a good place), and use that for the next step.
[05:40] <genii> persia: I've found you to be helpful each time I've had questions, and it's appreciated. I will likely return another time to bother you further :) But I require sleep before then.
[05:40] <persia> genii: Sleep well.
[05:40] <genii> persia: Good night
[07:01] <dholbach> good morning
[07:09] <cody-somerville> Morning
[07:26] <\sh> moins
[07:37] <superm1> woah, is there a new debian/copyright syntax that I didn't hear of?
[07:37] <superm1> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/eee-applet-0805041700/eee-applet-0.2/debian/copyright
[07:38] <cody-somerville> Yes, it is located here: http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat
[07:38] <superm1> yeah i'm just looking that over right now
[07:38] <superm1> you should still be putting the short paragraph in the file though right?
[07:39] <superm1> it looks like at least the example i linked to isn't properly implementing it
[08:21] <Falken_> Hi ! I got a package ready to be reviewed : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=flabber
[09:25] <Hobbsee> RAOF: which version of gnome do should i use for intrepid?
[09:26] <wgrant> Hobbsee: gnome-terminal
[09:26] <Hobbsee> wgrant: oh, is it incorporated in there now?
[09:26] <cyberix> I'm lookin after sponsors for my package mi2svg. I used to have two sponsors, but then further problems were reported. I took my time fix those too. Now it should all be ok. see http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mi2svg
[09:27] <wgrant> Hobbsee: It has served a similar purpose for me for almost a decade now.
[09:27] <Hobbsee> wgrant: er, no.
[09:27] <Hobbsee> similar, yes.
[09:27] <Hobbsee> the same?  no.
[09:27] <wgrant> Bah.
[09:28] <Hobbsee> how do i open bookmarks in the default browser, via the terminal?
[09:28] <Hobbsee> how do i message a person in pidgin, from the terminal?
[09:29] <wgrant> Lessee.
[09:29] <wgrant> Gajim is easy - we have gajim-remote.
[09:30] <wgrant> And one can open a Firefox bookmark easily in Firefox, remarkably enough.
[09:30] <wgrant> Or do you want to start Firefox as well?
[09:30] <Hobbsee> depends.
[09:31] <wgrant> I leave my Firefox process running for weeks at a time, so I might be different.
[09:34] <cody-somerville> Who are our resident X -perts :)
[09:37] <cyberix> Which freeze is relevant for new Ubuntu packages comming from revu?
[09:37] <cyberix> is it FeatureFreeze?
[09:38] <LucidFox> cyberix> yes
[09:42] <huats> morning everyone
[09:47] <RAOF> Hobbsee: The PPA one should work.  Or, if you can wait until I've finished cursing first years, a sync of the soon-to-be 0.5 from Debian.
[09:48] <Hobbsee> RAOF: ppa address for intrepid doesn't work
[09:48] <Hobbsee> hah
[09:49] <RAOF> That'd be because I haven't actually uploaded any packages to the Intrepid pocket.  Because they'll go in Debian, & get syncd.
[09:50] <RAOF> The Hardy packages should build cleanly on Intrepid :P
[09:50] <Hobbsee> yes, but i was avoiding attempting to do that.
[09:50] <RAOF> Right.
[09:51] <RAOF> The 0.5 packaging is an active TODO item; it's just that it's below "mark 350 first year exams", which is likely to take up the bulk of the next two days.
[09:51] <Hobbsee> heh
[09:51] <RAOF> Also, marking doesn't really leave me in a packaging mood :)
[09:52]  * Hobbsee has added to the marking piles, recently :)
[09:52]  * Hobbsee muhahaha
[09:52] <RAOF> But if you'd like me to be snippy on IRC, now's the time!
[09:53] <RAOF> Mmm, gnash.  My favourite way to accidentally cool the cache by eating all available RAM and swap.
[09:54] <baron1984> gnash is the best way to watch Firefox fall over and die, should you feed it any flv
[09:54] <RAOF> Oh, you're here too?
[09:55] <RAOF> Heh.
[09:55] <baron1984> I find it amusing that Ubuntu offer 3 flash players that the user might not even know what any of them are
[09:55] <baron1984> one works, one kind of does, and one goes BOOM
[09:56] <azeem> in main?
[09:56] <baron1984> through ubufox as well
[09:56] <baron1984> thats where the user is likely to go wrong the first time in Ubuntu
[09:56] <RAOF> Gnash does'nt often go boom.
[09:56] <RAOF> flashplugin-nonfree goes boom more often than gnash, in my experience :)
[09:57] <baron1984> in AMD64? Yes, but it works up until that point
[09:57] <RAOF> Heh.  It works _better_ on amd64.  At least there flash doesn't take firefox with it :)
[09:58]  * baron1984 runs off to go compile GNASH, on the HURD
[09:59] <baron1984> in my experience, swfdec is the most likely to work if you want a free software flash player
[09:59] <baron1984> it can do most anything besides some streaming video sites, like ustream
[10:01] <baron1984> you'll lose Chris Pirillo, I'm not sure whether to call that a regression or just good taste
[10:02] <azeem> baron1984: you'd need to fix boost before compiling gnash on the Hurd
[10:02] <directhex> baron1984, on amd64, none of them work. since hardy, flash has been largely worthless for me, on 4 machines
[10:03] <baron1984> meh, they all work fine for me, except in Epiphany Webkit, but I suppose thats my own can of worms
[10:05] <baron1984> I had been wondering why there was no installation candidate for that, so I grabbed the libpango packages out of Intrepid, then went and got Epiphany-Webkit debs out of Debian Lenny
[10:13] <baron1984> They must have ditched a whole lot of debugging code from Firefox RC3 to Final
[10:19] <RAOF> No?  RC3 is byte-for-byte identical to final (at least on linux and win32, IIRC).
[10:21] <baron1984> RAOF: Between RC 3 and final, the typical RAM usage has gone from around 250-300 megs to maybe 100-150
[10:21] <baron1984> for me anyway
[10:21] <baron1984> they had to have done something
[10:24] <baron1984> well, in any event, more power to them, Epiphany does most things OK, but it was starting to aggravate me
[10:24] <baron1984> the preferences it does allow you to set, don't get respected later
[10:31] <LucidFox> I have a story to tell about how I helped a Vista user switch to Ubuntu, and what inconveniences he faced in the process.
[10:31] <LucidFox> Do you think it's worth posting on planet.ubuntu.com?
[10:32] <baron1984> well, in my case, everything was a challenge because while GNOME and all that is simple enough, trying to get hardware and such to work was a nightmare
[10:32] <baron1984> of course that was 4 years ago
[10:32] <Laney> LucidFox: Go for it!
[10:32] <LucidFox> hehehe
[10:32] <baron1984> most of that has been smoothed over by now
[10:33] <baron1984> Novell has been sending me emails about "This is Linux without having to chmod or chown or chroot anything"
[10:33] <LucidFox> Yes, the 8.04 live CD is really slick, I was surprised myself
[10:33] <baron1984> So I go and try 11 RC1 of OpenSuse, and not even the one click Nvidia drivers work
[10:35] <baron1984> I went marching back over to Ubuntu, cursing them under my breath, not that Ubuntu is horrible, but because the way they advertise and fail to deliver
[10:36] <baron1984> I guess Novell just wants to sell so much of their stuff they'll say anything
[10:37] <baron1984> I even got downright stubborn and tried to build the Nvidia kernel modules myself, I got back into KDE and opened YAST, and it said it was still using VESA
[10:41] <baron1984> I twould be neat if Ubuntu had something like this, there's a distro called NimbleX that lets you build your own custom LiveCD on their website, then download the image
[10:42] <Tim20> im trying to build 2 deb packages, when running dpkg-buildpackage on the second, i get the error "dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: no dependency information found for <lib from first deb>". i've tried making a postinst file on the first deb to run ldconfig, and i've tried making the first deb via checkinstall, but neither method worked.
[10:47] <dmk> hi, I have been creating some packages and I am wanting to upload them to REVU
[10:48] <jpds> dmk: would you like the keyrin synced?
[10:48] <dmk> I have just added myself to the REVU Uploaders Team, so could someone re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring when they have a chance
[10:48] <jpds> one mo.
[10:48] <dmk> jpds - cool, thanks
[10:48] <Hobbsee> baron1984: yes, it would.  feel free to implement it, and find others to help.
[10:50] <jpds> dmk: Done.
[10:51] <dmk> jpds, thanks :-)
[10:51] <jpds> dmk: You're welcome. Happy uploading.
[11:54] <sistpoty> hi folks
[11:55] <Laney> lo
[11:57] <rmjb> hey everyone, hey jdong
[11:57] <baron1984> someone asked me why Epiphany was hardly ever the default browser in GNOME oriented distros, I said probably because it doesn't act consistently, won't let you customize it, and it'll be darned if it'll act the way you tell it to even if you hack on prefs.js or something
[11:58] <baron1984> the whole application is designed to be hostile towards the user's wishes, then GNOME says that it's better because of that
[11:58] <azeem> baron1984: that kind of general ranting might be more on-topic in #ubuntu-offtopic
[12:09] <geser> Hi sistpoty
[12:09] <sistpoty> hi geser
[12:09] <emgent> morning
[12:09] <sistpoty> hi emgent
[12:09] <emgent> heya :)
[12:12] <jussi01> LucidFox: you around?
[12:12] <LucidFox> yes
[12:13] <jussi01> LucidFox: any idea when aurora will hit hardy backports?
[12:13] <LucidFox> jussi01> No idea. I only filed the backport, it will take others to approve it.
[12:13] <LucidFox> Meanwhile, you can use the package on arora-browser.org.
[12:14] <jussi01> LucidFox: ok, cool - thats great! thanks :)
[12:14]  * jussi01 has been looking for a webkit/qt browser for ages
[12:15] <jussi01> LucidFox: any really notable parts missing at this point (Im expecting yes, but wondering what they are)
[12:17] <LucidFox> Well, as I said, it's minimalistic
[12:18] <LucidFox> It has the basic features: tabs, history, bookmarks, cookies, download manager, and user CSS support
[12:18] <jussi01> oh, so its quite useable ?
[12:18] <LucidFox> But there are many areas where it's lacking
[12:19] <LucidFox> For example, caching, view source, and stability
[12:20] <jussi01> hrm, someone remind me of the command to rebuild kde menus?
[12:20] <LucidFox> you can direct your questions to icefox on #arora
[12:20] <jussi01> LucidFox: thanks. will do. Ill give it a good going over anyway, and report some bugs perhaps :)
[12:22] <LucidFox> ah, bug reports are welcome
[12:22] <sistpoty> cody-somerville, \sh, ScottK, jdong, TheMuso: I assume we don't want a sru for just a man page (bug #238192). Ok if I decline the nomination?
[12:23] <cody-somerville> hmm
[12:23] <\sh> sistpoty: nope...
[12:23] <\sh> sistpoty: it's a shame...but not critical ;)
[12:23] <sistpoty> heh
[12:24] <emgent> heya  \sh :)
[12:24] <\sh> moins emgent
[12:25] <cody-somerville> sistpoty, I don't think that one is worth it
[12:25] <cody-somerville> sistpoty, Especially since the man page is rather sparse.
[12:25] <sistpoty> ok, thanks cody-somerville and \sh
[12:43] <afflux> I guess the ubuntu firefox distribution is not reflected at http://www.spreadfirefox.com/worldrecord, right?
[12:45] <ScottK> sistpoty: Yes.
[12:59] <baron1984> I still think that was weird, one minute Firefox is eating RAM for breakfast
[13:00] <baron1984> then I get that update, and BAM, well behaved application
[13:01] <LucidFox> Okay, here's my "success story": http://lucidfox.org/wp/a/393
[13:01] <LimCore> hi
[13:01] <LucidFox> welcome LimCore
[13:02] <LimCore> how about addiging ubuntu packages for kernel.org vanilla kernels?  like say   linux-kernel.org-stable  and  linux-kernel.org-prepatch.  No ubuntu patches so  1) easy to package  2) good for people working on kernel development/testing
[13:03] <Hobbsee> LimCore: try #ubuntu-kernel for kernel stuff.
[13:03] <LimCore> ok
[13:03] <sistpoty> Hi Hobbsee: are you up for intrepid for motu-release/could you eventually reply to the motu-release thread on ubuntu-motu?
[13:03] <Hobbsee> sistpoty: i did my last exam for the semester today.  currently thinking about the release stuff.  will reply to the thread.
[13:03] <sistpoty> Hobbsee: thanks!
[13:04] <Hobbsee> sistpoty: the time that i have been spending on ubuntu has been dealing with irc crap.
[13:04] <sistpoty> oh :/
[13:05] <wgrant> Hobbsee: Hopefully that will be resolved soon enough.
[13:05] <wgrant> With divine intervention.
[13:05] <Hobbsee> wgrant: well, i hope so too.
[13:05] <Hobbsee> but, we'll see what happens.
[13:06] <cody-somerville> hehe
[13:07] <baron1984> LimCore: Vanilla kernels usually bring Ubuntu down in flames, and they're rarely needed anyway
[13:07] <LimCore> baron1984: then something is wrong with ubuntu... why "bring down in flames"?
[13:08] <Hobbsee> LimCore: because it's going to be a royal pain to support.
[13:08] <LimCore> I need to use grsecurity on ubuntu for example.   How to choose best matching kernel.org version, and how to build&install from sources, the ubuntu way (or just make make install?
[13:08] <baron1984> I've tried to do it a few times, there's basically about a million things you can do wrong, most of them end up making it most of the way through booting, and then panic
[13:08] <LimCore> Hobbsee: debian works fine with kernel.org ... I hope ubuntu is not worse in this respect?
[13:08] <baron1984> it would create a support nightmare
[13:09] <Hobbsee> LimCore: they don't explicitly support their users, when the users have gone and recompiled their kernels, last i knew.
[13:09] <Hobbsee> as in, any bugs reported against it that do not happen on the debian kernels will still get marked as invalid.
[13:09] <Hobbsee>  / wont fix
[13:09] <wgrant> LimCore: What do we do that's so evil that we don't work with kernel.org?
[13:09] <LimCore> baron1984: how many people use ubuntu's custom kernel, how many use kernel.org?  Will LKML support ubuntu's kernel or kernel.org?
[13:10] <LimCore> s/kernel.org/vanilla
[13:11] <LimCore> wgrant: you mean, why I would like vanilla kernel?   1) to work with LKML and help test newest kernels   2) to apply patches that ubuntu dont apply - i.e. grsecurity
[13:11] <wgrant> LimCore: No, I mean what breaks when you try to use one?
[13:12] <baron1984> Last time it made it to Runlevel 3 and panicked
[13:12] <baron1984> been so long ago I don't remember much else
[13:12] <LimCore> wgrant: hmm I didnt tried yet... that was also my question :)  Which vanilla kernel version is most matching current ubuntu linux-generic (<IP_ADDRESS>.21)?  is it <IP_ADDRESS> ?
[13:12] <wgrant> LimCore: -19.21?
[13:12] <wgrant> Also, this is completely offtopic.
[13:12] <baron1984> You should really, really not mess with the official packaged versions
[13:13] <wgrant> baron1984: Why not?
[13:13] <baron1984> unless you have a good reason
[13:13] <baron1984> cause then you have to micromanage the thing, and there's very little point to it
[13:13] <LimCore> where can we discuss this topic then?  ubuntu-kernel is kind of quiet...  other ubuntu development channel?
[13:13] <zul> LimCore: its easier just to get the kernels and kernel.org
[13:14] <wgrant> baron1984: What? Surely there's less micromanagement than a vanilla kernel.
[13:14] <LimCore> ok in another way.  Ubuntu user gets told at LKML  to "install a vanilla kernel and try again" what should he do then?
[13:14] <zul> LimCore: go to kernel.org and download it
[13:15] <zul> LimCore: I dont think you are going to get a vanilla kernel.org package for ubuntu unless if you package it yourself
[13:15] <LimCore> zul: what happens to say nvidia binary driver then?  I need to download by hand and rebuild probably?
[13:15] <baron1984> yep
[13:15] <zul> yep
[13:16] <LimCore> and this linux splash and other customizations, they will simply be gone right?
[13:16]  * Hobbsee notes that zul is one of the kernel guys.
[13:16] <baron1984> and you have to upgrade your kernel yourself too or go back to the packaged ones
[13:16] <baron1984> like I said, lots of hassle, little payoff
[13:17] <LimCore> baron1984: is there any other way to have support from LKML and/or  to install vanilla + custom patch like grsecurity?
[13:17] <zul> no there isnt
[13:17] <LimCore> you see
[13:17] <baron1984> support from them means you use their kernel
[13:17] <baron1984> no patches
[13:17]  * Hobbsee wonders what "support" is expected from installing something completely custom and customisable anyway.
[13:17] <LimCore> how about making it easier (the LKML thing)  by packing vanilla kernel?
[13:18] <Hobbsee> seeing as the chances of reproducing anything are extremely low
[13:18] <LimCore> Hobbsee: the opposite.
[13:18] <baron1984> well, I mean once you change it in any way, they have no idea what is going on with it, or where to start
[13:18] <Hobbsee> LimCore: how so?
[13:18] <LimCore> Hobbsee: how many people use vanilla kernels, and how many use custom ubuntu kernel with custom ubutnu specyfic patches
[13:18] <Hobbsee> LimCore: i'm talking about support from ubuntu, not from kernel.org.
[13:18] <baron1984> I use stock Ubuntu linux-rt kernel
[13:19] <zul> LimCore: I would say most users use the custom ubuntu specific patches if they are using ubuntu
[13:19] <LimCore> right, and Im talking about LKML support
[13:19] <baron1984> thats as much as I want to deviate
[13:19] <LimCore> if one have a problem with kernel (i.e. driver problem) then only LKML can help, not ubuntu
[13:19] <LimCore> in such case he needs to have vanilla kernel to get support for kernel developers
[13:19] <zul> LimCore: if you are interested in getting into kernel programming and likes you would be better off in #kernel
[13:20] <LimCore> whyu not make this easier for ubuntu users to get LKML support, by packing vanilla kernel
[13:20] <zul> but of course what do I know
[13:20] <zul> LimCore: man power for one
[13:20] <Hobbsee> LimCore: so they dont end up using something that we support, completely by accident.
[13:20] <baron1984> Cause the vanilla kernel doesn't do thing(s) that Ubuntu wants it to do?
[13:20] <LimCore> simply packing kernel seems to be much esier then custom patching one?
[13:20] <Hobbsee> and surely grabbing the bits is one of the easiest bits of compiling a kernel.
[13:22] <zul> LimCore: it isnt
[13:22] <norsetto> plus
[13:23] <LimCore> zul: the goal would be just to provide this kernel, not to make it fully work with ubuntu
[13:23] <baron1984> gah, someone has Linux very angry
[13:23] <zul> LimCore: fine be my guest go and do it then :)
[13:23] <baron1984> he's shouting four letter words on the mailing list, it's actually quite funny
[13:24] <wgrant> norsetto: Are you planning to merge hypre at some point?
[13:24] <norsetto> wgrant: yes, when atlats gets built for i386
[13:24] <LimCore> zul: then how to be ubuntu developer and get this package into repository for people to use?
[13:24] <LucidFox> asac, here?
[13:24] <norsetto> wgrant: make that atlas
[13:24] <wgrant> norsetto: Great, my petsc merge and other bits and pieces want it.
[13:24] <Hobbsee> baron1984: i'm sure that's not related to development, and hence is offtopic.
[13:25] <zul> LimCore: upload it to revu, check the wiki
[13:25] <cody-somerville> LimCore, You can also use a PPA
[13:25] <LimCore> ok
[13:25] <geser> till I switched back from a custom kernel to the Ubuntu one, I used make-kpkg to build my kernel debs
[13:25] <LimCore> separate subject: how about supporting grsecuriy kernels?
[13:26] <LimCore> or merge more interesting bits of grsec with ubuntu and allow apparmored do the rest
[13:26] <LimCore> *apparmor
[13:27] <persia> LimCore: You'll really get better answers in #ubuntu-kernel, despite the apparent lack of traffic there.  Most people in this channel only use kernels.
[13:28] <LimCore> ok, cy
[13:29] <persia> Bah.  I didn't mean to cause departure.  Maybe some clients have an insufficiently clear mechanism to handle multiple channels :(
[13:30] <sistpoty> norsetto, wgrant: hm...  I'm on amd64 is no good excuse to not have to deal with atlas again, is it? *g+
[13:33] <asac> LucidFox: ?
[13:33] <directhex> do people use distro-compiled apps like petsc? gcc-compiled app performance sucks
[13:34] <norsetto> sistpoty: I'm on amd64 too, my only guess is that it could be due to -Bsymbolic-function since it fails with a duplicated symbols error message
[13:35] <sistpoty> norsetto: I rather doubt that -Bsymbolic-functions has an effect like this... I rather assume that some #ifdef regarding sse or s.th. is wrong
[13:36] <norsetto> sistpoty: yes, its not used anyhow
[13:36] <sistpoty> norsetto: as the error messages strangely come out from the assembler, not from the linker (haven't seen this myself before :/)
[13:39] <norsetto> sistpoty: debian buildd logs do not help much: http://buildd.debian.org/pkg.cgi?pkg=atlas
[13:39] <sistpoty> norsetto: yes, binary for i386 was included in the upload as it looks
[13:39] <LucidFox> asac> Gnash 0.8.3 is out, I wondered if you were going to package it
[13:43] <asac> LucidFox: sure, why not. want to help?
[13:43] <LucidFox> eh, I'm afraid not :)
[13:43] <LucidFox> just asked
[13:43] <asac> the bzr branch already supports quite recent nightlies so it should just work (TM)
[14:00]  * sistpoty is off again... cya
[14:04] <rexium> Hey everyone. Question on sync policy, if there is a new upstream version of a package in debian unstable and MOM is only complaining about debian/controls, does that qualify as a sync?
[14:04] <geser> rexium: it depends on the changes in debian/control
[14:04] <norsetto> so much for being unstable, the atlas version there is from 2003
[14:05] <persia> norsetto: It's called "unstable", not "current" :p
[14:07] <rexium> upstream seperated some of the old source package out into another package (which already got auto-synced and is available) ... damn I just realized taht that package needs to be promoted to main...
[14:07] <rexium> taking this to -devekl
[14:08] <norsetto> persia: i wonder what they have in stable, abacuses?
[14:09]  * persia has been a continual upgrader since potato: Etch is all strange newfangled code
[14:11]  * lukehasnoname laughs
[14:12] <lukehasnoname> The first linux magazine I ever looked at was discussing the "new" debian Sarge release
[14:12] <directhex> i wrote a guide once, which targetted sarge test candidate 1
[14:12] <directhex> 10k words. eep
[14:12] <lukehasnoname> wow
[14:12] <lukehasnoname> IBM may open-source DB2
[14:13] <directhex> eek, 4 years old. http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=792
[14:13] <lukehasnoname> £, ahaha
[14:14] <lukehasnoname> £0.01 = $26.84
[14:42] <amikrop> FrostWire 4.13.5 on Ubuntu 8.04 doesn't create a menu entry. Is this a frostwire's packaging problem, or did I do something wrong?
[14:43] <baron1984> Frostwire? You're joking
[14:44] <cody-somerville> baron1984, ...
[14:44] <baron1984> yes?
[14:44] <amikrop> baron1984: Excuse me?
[14:45] <baron1984> well, say hello to the RIAA and computer viruses for me
[14:45] <baron1984> thats all you'll find on Gnutella anymore
[14:45] <norsetto> amikrop: there is no frostwire in ubuntu
[14:45] <baron1984> yeah, there's a deb package on their site, but they're not affiliated with Ubuntu
[14:45] <baron1984> thank god
[14:45] <cody-somerville> amikrop, and they do have a bug in their package
[14:46] <amikrop> Oh. I see.
[14:46] <norsetto> cody-somerville: they have more than a bug (bug 94011)
[14:46] <cody-somerville> I think you'll find that frostwire will appear in the menu after you install another application
[14:46] <amikrop> cody-somerville: ?!
[14:48] <amikrop> cody-somerville: This did not happen (I installed another application).
[14:48] <cody-somerville> amikrop, it'll appear sooner or later
[14:48] <cody-somerville> amikrop, it did for me
[14:48] <amikrop> :P
[14:48] <cody-somerville> It should show up in Applications > Network
[14:49] <cody-somerville> *Internet
[14:49] <Laney> amikrop: Make sure you don't have an entry in ~/.local/share/applications/
[14:49] <Laney> I've been bitten by that before!
[14:50] <amikrop> Laney: There, is the FrostWire executable.
[14:53] <amikrop> Laney: Shouldn't it be there?
[14:53] <norsetto> wgrant: sync requested for hypre, you should be able to proceed with petsc and co. soon
[14:53] <Laney> amikrop: AIUI that's where local changes (i.e. under your username) to that particular desktop file go. Deleting it should start using the system one again.
[14:54] <directhex> yay! it's that time again, tseliot! http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_amd64_177.13.html
[14:54] <tseliot> directhex: yes, I'm working on it right now
[14:54] <directhex> really? that was quick!
[14:54] <tseliot> 4 flavours of the same driver, great...
[14:54] <directhex> doesn't look like they've removed anything from it compared to the previous public release
[14:55] <tseliot> they have dropped the support for *a few* cards
[14:55] <directhex> though nothing mentioned in the readme about 0x05E7, which was in a previous beta driver
[14:56] <directhex> tseliot, a few meaning an actual chip, or seemingly at random?
[14:56] <tseliot> directhex: it supports GeForce 6 series and newer NVIDIA GPUs
[14:57] <tseliot> I haven't checked the ids yet
[15:00] <Laney> What's the .sbuildrc incantation to convince it to build arch:all packages?
[15:00] <StevenK> -A
[15:00] <Laney> StevenK: In the rcfile?
[15:00] <StevenK> Laney: On the command line
[15:01] <Laney> StevenK: Is the a way to specify it as default?
[15:01] <Laney> I guess I could edit the script
[15:01]  * directhex is trying to learn docbook, on the basis that it's slightly less painful than learning latex
[15:01] <StevenK> Laney: Personally, I just run sbuild with -A
[15:01] <Laney> Fair enough
[15:14] <amikrop> Laney: OK. Thanks.
[15:21] <amikrop> Laney: It worked.
[15:21] <amikrop> :-)
[15:21] <Laney> amikrop: Good!
[15:32] <huats> nxvl: hello
[15:35] <norsetto> huats!!!^2
[15:35] <huats> norsetto !!!
[15:35] <norsetto> huats: ready for the summer?
[15:35] <huats> norsetto: sure
[15:35] <huats> norsetto: a working summer...
[15:36] <norsetto> huats: woot? No carribean beaches? Not even a tiny med island!?
[15:36] <huats> norsetto: no I don't think so...
[15:36] <huats> :(
[15:36] <huats> what about you ?
[15:38]  * norsetto wonders if it is wise to say the truth
[15:39] <geser> norsetto: are you sitting on a carribean beach with WLAN access?
[15:40] <norsetto> geser: and a big cocktail with an umbrella in my hands
[15:40] <geser> :)
[15:41] <AnAnt__> Hello, I made a package for realplayer 11 based on canonicals package for realplayer 10, it's on REVU now, who should I ask to review it ? the MOTUs or who ?
[15:41] <Hobbsee> AnAnt__: the canonical commercial guys.
[15:42] <nxvl> huats: hi!
[15:43] <AnAnt__> Hobbsee: any email or IRC channel for those ?
[15:43] <huats> nxvl: I was lookingh for you for a few days
[15:43] <baron1984> I like Synaptic's description of Epiphany-Browser
[15:43] <baron1984> "Intuitive Web Browser - Dummy Package"
[15:45] <lukehasnoname> haha
[15:46] <nxvl> huats: well, with the work i'm kinf of busy
[15:46] <Hobbsee> AnAnt__: look for an address / contact details on launchpad, or ask one of the canonical guys, i guess
[15:46] <AnAnt__> Hobbsee: I think I'll just contact the maintainer
[15:47] <jpds> AnAnt__: https://launchpad.net/~canonical-partner-dev
[15:49] <AnAnt__> thanks
[15:49] <norsetto> Hobbsee: is canonical using revu?
[15:49] <Hobbsee> norsetto: i doubt it
[15:50] <dmk> hi guys, I have noticed an error in a package I have just uploaded for REVU - can I just upload again? Or should I wait?
[15:50] <norsetto> dmk: as you wish
[15:51] <jpds> dmk: wait a while for it to leave the queue and then reupload
[15:51] <dmk> ok, thanks guys
[15:52] <LucidFox> Riddell, here?
[16:02] <nxvl> lucas: around?
[16:12] <nxvl> norsetto: btw, you are the man of the good practices, are you following lucas tread on -motu and -devel?
[16:12] <norsetto> nxvl: not really, I'm not a m.l. practitioner :-)
[16:14] <nxvl> norsetto: you should take a look
[16:14] <nxvl> norsetto: the tread is: "About forwarding bugs and patches to Debian and documenting your changes"
[16:23] <Riddell> LucidFox: hi
[16:24] <LucidFox> Riddell> Are you planning to upgrade qtjambi to 4.4.0?
[16:25] <Riddell> LucidFox: I've played with it about a week ago, the build system is quite different from previous versions and has a few issues that need worked around.  it'll need to wait for the new phonon package at least
[16:25] <Riddell> LucidFox: why do you ask?
[16:26] <LucidFox> Riddell> Ah, okay then
[16:29] <norsetto> Anybody here using synaptic on hardy that can do a quick install test?
[16:29]  * cody-somerville notes that the big, awesome, wicked Xubuntu meeting is taking place in a few hours. Hope you're all there! :) http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1499
[16:29] <persia> norsetto: I have synaptic installed on hardy (although I don't typically use it).  What test do you need?
[16:30] <persia> cody-somerville: You've scheduled it for a poor time for this side of the world :)
[16:30] <cody-somerville> persia, Is the Saturday date better?
[16:31] <norsetto> persia: can you try to install festlex-ifd? It should't drag much (on my system festival, festvox-itapc16k and libestools1.2)
[16:32] <persia> cody-somerville: Not really.  5am and 2am here (6am and 3am for eastern Australia).
[16:32] <persia> norsetto: And this only manifests in synaptic?
[16:32] <norsetto> persia: fails to install? Apparently, I can't reproduce with apt-get
[16:33] <persia> norsetto: OK.  I'll try with synaptic then :)
[16:33] <persia> Is there a bug number?
[16:33] <norsetto> bug 240834
[16:40] <persia> norsetto: I seem to already have that package installed :(
[16:41] <norsetto> persia: haha, I should have known, you are such a language wizard ;-)
[16:41]  * persia only has aspirations: it's more about being flooded in a room of flying brooms
[16:43] <persia> It does seem to have circular dependencies though.  I'm not sure that is ideal.  I forget the rules about when they are allowed.
[16:44] <persia> I think one of the packages is supposed to only recommend the other (but I don't know which would be correct)
[16:46] <norsetto> persia: festlex-ifd doesn't recommend any other package
[16:47] <persia> norsetto: No, but it both suggests and depends on the festvox packages.  That seems like someone was wedging something, rather than a correct solution.
[16:48] <norsetto> persia: hmmm, the suggests seems indeed useless
[16:49] <persia> norsetto: Might be worth checking the history.  I suspect the dependency should be a recommendation.
[16:49] <persia> (and the suggests dropped)
[16:49] <norsetto> persia: actually, it could be that they suggest to have both packages, but one only is required
[16:50] <persia> norsetto: Right, but I suspect that any other voice set also works, which is why I say recommends.  The opposite model, of a voice set being installed without a dictionary isn't likely to work at all.
[16:51] <persia> Remember that recommends will be installed in all but exceptional circumstances, and that having it depends<->recommends won't cause the installation loop.
[16:51] <norsetto> persia: hmm, thats gonna change for intrepid though
[16:52] <persia> norsetto: Well, recommends-by-default brings us back to matching the semantics documented in Debian policy.  We've been an "exceptional case" for a while.
[16:53] <norsetto> persia: anyhow, this means the guy has "suggests selected for installation" as an option (I guess synaptic would give this option?). Otherwise I don't explain his problem.
[16:54] <persia> norsetto: There's a circular dependency.  That's not generally permitted.
[16:55] <norsetto> persia: through a suggest? apt-get doesn't consider it a problem
[16:56] <jetsaredim> if i've run into an issue with the installation cd for ubuntu-server - what package would i file that bug against?
[16:57] <cyberix> norsetto: I answered you, so what do you think?
[16:58] <norsetto> cyberix: ok, let me check it first
[16:59] <norsetto> cyberix: yes, thats the kind of stuff I'm getting too (I tried other maps obviously)
[17:00] <norsetto> cyberix: is that usable for anything?
[17:00] <cyberix> norsetto: http://kaino.kotus.fi/nikar/
[17:01] <cyberix> norsetto: The current css of that site is really bad
[17:01] <cyberix> norsetto: But you can click on some word to show on the map where it has been used for naming places (such as rocks, rivers, forests, ...)
[17:02] <norsetto> cyberix: well, all I get is the black map, perhaps its a problem with Konqueror
[17:02] <cyberix> I suppose so
[17:03] <norsetto> cyberix: let me try firefox
[17:03] <cyberix> ok
[17:04] <norsetto> cyberix: ah! now I see something
[17:05] <norsetto> cyberix: so, the stuff that you filter out its not meaningful?
[17:05] <cyberix> it might be meaningful, but you don't necessarily need it
[17:06] <norsetto> cyberix: what is ajos?
[17:06] <cyberix> wow
[17:06] <cyberix> that is a hard one
[17:06] <norsetto> cyberix: well, if its hard for you imagine for me
[17:06] <cyberix> It might have something to do with moving cows around
[17:07] <cyberix> or maybe moving logs by water
[17:07] <cyberix> ajo would be a drive
[17:08] <norsetto> cyberix: nice, now it makes sense
[17:08] <cyberix> and ajos would then be "something that is being driven"
[17:08] <norsetto> cyberix: so, that is done with the svg?
[17:08] <cyberix> yes
[17:09] <cyberix> it is an svg that is dynamically composed with php
[17:09] <norsetto> cyberix: cool, you have my advocation then
[17:09] <cyberix> but the shapes are not changed
[17:09] <cyberix> the php adds css to the svg
[17:09] <cyberix> css defines the colours
[17:12] <norsetto> cyberix: you may want to ask sistpoty (he is not logged now) if he is still happy to advocate the upload
[17:13] <cyberix> I'll do that
[17:18] <cyberix> norsetto: thanks
[17:18] <norsetto> cyberix: my pleasure
[18:03] <SpookyET> hi
[18:03] <SpookyET> bac
[18:03] <SpookyET> k
[18:03] <norsetto> cody-somerville: is there any reason why synaptic in Xubuntu should work differently from Gnome?
[18:08] <cody-somerville> norsetto, In what way is it acting differently?
[18:09] <norsetto> cody-somerville: well, I really can't find a reason for bug 240834
[18:09] <persia> The problem is the circular dependency, which is bad.
[18:10] <norsetto> persia: I just installed and logged to Gnome hardy, I can't reproduce this with synaptic
[18:10] <persia> norsetto: I suspect that is because mvo put special magic in to make it work.  It should break with those dependencies.
[18:11] <norsetto> persia: and apt-get? its also working (and no, I'm not going to check adept or whatever it is that kde uses)
[18:12] <SpookyET> Does anyone use CDBS?
[18:13] <Riddell> superm1: accepted coreavc, keep poking upstream about the copyright though
[18:14] <Riddell> SpookyET: almost everyone does, doesn't mean anyone understands it :)
[18:14] <SpookyET> I have an issue with it.
[18:14] <mario_limonciell> Riddell, thanks.  Yeah will do.  upstream is kinda slow to progress things, so i might just end up joining to get some commit access to fix some of the pending things myself :)
[18:14] <SpookyET> It doesn't move debian/tmp/bin to debian/foo/usr/bin
[18:16] <Riddell> SpookyET: if you put debian/tmp/bin in foo.install it'll move it to debian/foo/bin
[18:16] <Riddell> but not to debian/foo/usr/bin
[18:17] <SpookyET> Riddell: why do I have to do that? It does it for the other dirs
[18:18] <Riddell> SpookyET: it won't move anything unless it is told to
[18:19] <persia> norsetto: I expect as much.  There's a lot of ubuntu-specific variation in those tools (much of which is getting closer to Debian for intrepid)
[18:19] <SpookyET> Riddell: I'm not telling it to move the other dirs. It does it by itself, everything except /usr/bin
[18:19] <norsetto> persia: well, why then the magic is not working for the bug reporter? I just would like to be sure before presenting the case to Debian
[18:19] <SpookyET> debian/tmp/usr/bin is populated
[18:20] <persia> norsetto: That's the part I don't understand.  I think there is a bug in the package, but that bug shouldn't produce that result for the submitter.
[18:20] <Riddell> SpookyET: if it's a single binary package it should install to debian/foo/
[18:20] <Riddell> not debian/tmp/
[18:26] <SpookyET> Riddell: it's not
[18:27] <SpookyET> Riddell: have a look please https://code.launchpad.net/~spookyet/+junk/rdup
[18:27] <SpookyET> it's a simple package
[18:29] <Riddell> SpookyET: that's not cdbs
[18:29] <Riddell> $(MAKE) install prefix=$(CURDIR)/debian/rdup/usr
[18:29] <Riddell> should install it all to debian/rdup/usr
[18:30] <SpookyET> oops. I didn't upload the cdbs version
[18:33] <SpookyET> Riddell: committed
[18:36] <Riddell> SpookyET: the docs file will move the files listed in it to debian/rdup/
[18:36] <Riddell> and debian/rdup-doc/
[18:36] <Riddell> rdup-doc.docs will move the files listed in it to debian/rdup-doc/
[18:36] <Riddell> nothing else will get moved
[18:37] <Riddell> it'll need a rdup.install file
[18:37] <SpookyET> oh
[18:39] <james_w> anyone have a tool to grab a source package from Debian without having deb-src lines for that in my sources.list?
[18:39] <james_w> or is there a way that I can have those lines but be sure to only get them from Debian if I say "-t unstable" or similar?
[18:49] <norsetto> persia: this could explain it: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/01/msg00694.html
[18:49] <persia> norsetto: list length!  That's it.  Good find.
[18:51] <persia> I still think the fix is to make festival-itad only Recomment the vox packages (and neither Depend nor Suggest them)
[18:52] <norsetto> persia: let me ask for confirmation. From what I could find so far I think we need to fix the package, but my idea would be to remove the depends from festvox-itapc16k and festvox-italp16k on festlex-ifd
[18:55] <james_w> \sh: hi, do you have a reference for the problem that http://patches.ubuntu.com/c/cappuccino/cappuccino_0.5.1-2ubuntu1.patch was intended to fix?
[19:00] <\sh> james_w: nope...not anymore...but I can remember that it needed something which wasn't in python but in python-dev
[19:00] <nxvl> i'm having some problems/questions packaging a library
[19:00] <nxvl> the library ships with gnulib in the source
[19:01] <nxvl> so i'm removing it from the source to add it as Build-Depend
[19:01] <nxvl> but it's kind of hard coded on the Makefile and configure script
[19:01] <james_w> \sh: the build process looks to be too simple for that, and the Debian package builds fine in both my sid and intrepid pbuilders.
[19:01] <nxvl> did anyone can point me to the best way to deal with this?
[19:01] <\sh> james_w: can be..I don't argue..but during feisty it wasn't somehow...
[19:01] <\sh> james_w: if the oackage now builds directly, get rid of the diff and sync
[19:01] <james_w> \sh: fair enough.
[19:02] <james_w> there's no upload to sync at the moment. Whenever there is it can be re-evaluated.
[19:02] <\sh> james_w: ah...
[19:02] <\sh> james_w: so if there is no new package in debian, so just upload the changed package
[19:03] <\sh> james_w: -python-dev +python .. and mark in the changelog : syncing the next time
[19:03] <james_w> \sh: ok, care to sponsor?
[19:03] <\sh> james_w: push debdiff to bug, send bug report ;)
[19:03] <\sh> james_w: so yes :)
[19:03] <james_w> thanks
[19:03] <\sh> james_w: welcome
[19:08] <SpookyET> Riddell: none of the tutorials i google show you how to make multi-bin packages with CDBS
[19:08] <Riddell> SpookyET: just add a file <packagename>.install
[19:08] <Riddell> with lines for each file to include
[19:09] <Riddell> debian/tmp/usr/bin/foo
[19:09] <Riddell> etc
[19:09] <SpookyET> Don't you have to tell it the destination as well?
[19:09] <Riddell> it'll copy it into debian/<packagename>/usr/bin/foo
[19:10] <SpookyET> Riddell: that's the problem. It's not doing it
[19:12] <mouz> I'm packaging a tool where the executable is in CamelCase. I'd like to rename it to all lower case, because it seems to be the policy. But I can not find a documented policy about that: is there any?
[19:13] <nxvl> is there any way to search for packages which build depends on some other package?
[19:17] <geser> nxvl: http://paste.ubuntu.com/3207/
[19:19] <geser> nxvl: or reverse-build-depends from ubuntu-dev-tools
[19:23] <nxvl> geser: thanks!
[19:27] <bersace> Hi
[19:27] <cody-somerville> Hiya
[19:27] <bersace> could anyone please remove gnome-scan upload attempts ?
[19:27] <bersace> thx
[19:36] <v0lksman> ping jdong
[19:37] <james_w> \sh: bug 241029 please.
[19:49] <\sh> james_w: upload
[19:49] <\sh> ed
[20:18] <james_w> \sh: thanks
[20:53] <norsetto> liberate tutemet ex inferis !?
[21:03] <luisbg> is the code for revu open source?
[21:17] <norsetto> luisbg
[21:17] <norsetto> luisbg: yes
[21:17] <luisbg> luisbg: https://edge.launchpad.net/revu
[21:17] <luisbg> the code is there
[21:17] <luisbg> but it never mentions the license it is in
[21:17] <luisbg> mentions the copyright holders and that it can be distributed and modified if the copyright holders are mentioned
[21:18] <luisbg> norsetto: but not which license it is
[21:18] <norsetto> luisbg: perhaps, what is the license to do with a software being open source or not?
[21:18] <luisbg> if it is really free or not
[21:19] <luisbg> if I can modify it and use the modified code
[21:19] <norsetto> luisbg: that has nothing to do with open source
[21:19] <luisbg> making the source code available isnt making it free
[21:19] <luisbg> ok... I will restate my question: is it free software?
[21:19] <norsetto> luisbg: better question :-)
[21:19] <luisbg> norsetto: thanks :P
[21:21] <luisbg> is there an answer to it?
[21:22] <\sh> luisbg: ask siretart
[21:22] <\sh> and sistpoty
[21:23] <geser> norsetto: "liberate tutemet ex inferis" is a quote from Event Horizon
[21:23] <norsetto> luisbg,: the license seems pretty clear to me
[21:24] <norsetto> geser: ah, I was wondering since it seems a bit of a pig-latin ;-)
[21:24] <luisbg> norsetto: imagine I wanted to use the revu code for an other distro, I would take out all ubuntu related stuff, and adapt it to my distro
[21:24] <luisbg> can I do this?
[21:24] <norsetto> luisbg: provided you follow the requirements laid in the license, yes
[21:25] <luisbg> norsetto: and which are the requirements
[21:25] <luisbg> besides taking trademarked material out and mentioning the original coders?
[21:25] <norsetto> luisbg: practically, you have to retain the copyright notice, some of the related files have other licenses, you would have to check what they require
[21:26] <geser> norsetto: I never had latin in school, that's all I could find about the wording of the quote
[21:26] <luisbg> ok
[21:26] <norsetto> geser: is the film any good? The title is promising
[21:30] <geser> norsetto: http://akas.imdb.com/title/tt0119081/, the Italian title is "Punto di non ritorno"
[21:30] <cody-somerville> fyi, Xubuntu community meeting is taking place right now in #ubuntu-meeting for all parties interested! :)
[21:31] <norsetto> geser: watching an English spoken film in Italian is one of the most horrific experiences one can do ... almost worst than in French
[21:32] <highvoltage> ooh
[21:32] <norsetto> worse ...
[21:47] <siretart> \sh: ?
[21:48] <siretart> luisbg: the README file contains the copyright statment
[21:53] <norsetto> ahhh, blue is so much more relaxing
[22:10] <mathiaz> kees: I've managed to get an ipsec-tools merge that builds correctly - could you review the changes that I needed to make it work ? http://paste.ubuntu.com/21235/
[22:13] <kees> mathiaz: ECHO part looks good, I'd recommend the fgets to fail with a break like the !rbuf[0] check.
[22:13] <kees> mathiaz: i.e. only ignore the return value if there is no other option
[22:19] <mathiaz> kees: like this ? http://paste.ubuntu.com/21236/
[22:22] <kees> mathiaz: yeah, looks right to me
[22:23] <mathiaz> kees: great - thanks for your input :)
[22:24] <kees> mathiaz: sure! thanks for getting it fixed.  :)
[22:40] <beDrung> hi, I have merged the newest version of xmms2 from debian. i need sponsorship for uploading it. Do I have to create a lanchpad bug or are there other way to do it?
[22:41] <geser> a LP bug is the best way (don't forget to subscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors team)
[22:50] <SpookyET> Rejected:
[22:50] <SpookyET> MD5 sum of uploaded file does not match existing file in archive
[22:50] <SpookyET> Files specified in DSC are broken or missing, skipping package unpack verification.
[22:51] <SpookyET> I checked the md5s
[22:51] <SpookyET> thy're fine
[22:51] <geser> PPA upload?
[22:51] <SpookyET> yeah
[22:52] <geser> what did you tried to upload?
[22:52] <SpookyET> rdup package
[22:52] <geser> does the same upstream version exist in the Ubuntu archive or in your PPA already?
[22:52] <SpookyET> no
[22:54] <geser> that's usually the problem but try asking in #launchpad then
[22:55] <SpookyET> I deleted the prev version. I thought that maybe .orig has changed
[22:59] <beDrung> sometimes it need time to delete a package in your ppa
[23:02] <beDrung> geser: done: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xmms2/+bug/241098
[23:17] <kirkland> mathiaz: what are the relevant dates on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidReleaseSchedule for MIR preparation/submission/processing?
[23:19] <mathiaz> kirkland: IIRC FeatureFreeze is a good target to get your MIR approved
[23:19] <mathiaz> kirkland: but things are not set in stone
[23:19] <mathiaz> kirkland: some packages have been moved to main after FF
[23:20] <kirkland> mathiaz: okay, cool, thanks.
[23:21] <kirkland> mathiaz: since apt-get now installs recommends, for a package to move to main, all of its requires and recommends also need to move to main, right?
[23:22] <mathiaz> kirkland: yes
[23:22]  * kirkland goes file more MIRs
[23:23] <mathiaz> kirkland: main should be self-contained, ie build depends can only come from main and you should be able to install any package from main with only main enabled in your sources.list
[23:23] <kirkland> mathiaz: right
[23:23] <kirkland> mathiaz: before the latest apt-get recommends change, were recommends allowed to be in universe?
[23:23] <mathiaz> kirkland: yes IIRC
[23:24] <mathiaz> kirkland: you may not have to file MIR for all recommends
[23:24] <mathiaz> kirkland: another option is to drop the recommends to suggests
[23:24] <kirkland> mathiaz: gotcha
[23:24] <slangasek> which I would expect to be the better course in the vast majority of cases
[23:38] <geser> isn't a package installable with missing recommends?
[23:40] <slangasek> yes, but they have an effect on what gets installed by default if you have universe enabled + the new apt
[23:41] <ScottK> So MIR for reccomends is required or not?  Do we know?
[23:44] <slangasek> if they're not going to be demoted to suggests instead, I think the recommended packages ought to make their way into main
[23:45] <geser> what about packages already in main? got their recommends get check if being in main in the past?
[23:55] <slangasek> geser: the recommends: of packages currently in main were never checked before, because recommends were never installed by default before
[23:55] <persia> norsetto: The otherway about: festival-ifd should Recommend festvox-ita*, and festvox-ita* should Depend on festival-ifd.
[23:56] <CarlFK> anyone know of a gpl dictionary of phonetic spellings?
[23:58] <persia> CarlFK: For which language?