[13:32] <bjsnider> nvidia-current is still at 304 in raring, so are users with modern hardware going to be using that by default?
[13:32] <bjsnider> i thought the system would upgrade modern stuff to 310
[13:32] <bjsnider> and leave users with older junk than the geforce 8 on the nvidia-304 package
[14:57] <mlankhorst> ok, rt priorities are evil..
[15:38] <Prf_Jakob> btw, do you guys have any bug filed against X, because it failing to start?
[15:39] <Prf_Jakob> I have a bug here where what it seems like lightdm sometimes fails to start.
[15:40] <Prf_Jakob> like once every 8ish boots.
[15:42] <Sarvatt> Prf_Jakob: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libdrm/+bug/982889
[15:44] <Prf_Jakob> Sarvatt: is that fix in the wild?
[15:44] <Prf_Jakob> Sarvatt: I'm using a fully updated 12.10 vm.
[15:44] <Sarvatt> not yet, still being debated as there are multiple ways to hit it that need different fixes, not fun :(
[15:45] <Prf_Jakob> okay
[15:45] <Sarvatt> Prf_Jakob: are you hitting it with hybrid graphics, or booting too fast?
[15:45] <Prf_Jakob> this is vmwgfx so too fast.
[15:45] <Prf_Jakob> I dunno about the user tho.
[15:49] <Sarvatt> Prf_Jakob: if you need a workaround ASAP you can cp /etc/init/lightdm.conf to /etc/init/lightdm.override, and add a sleep 2 or sleep 3 right above the exec lightdm line
[15:57] <Prf_Jakob> Sarvatt: thanks, I don't think so, just need enough to say not our bug and move on :)
[15:57] <Prf_Jakob> thanks for the info, I'll see if can't reproduce it tho.
[16:02] <Prf_Jakob> Sarvatt: I'll try that on my host system which seems to have a similar problem, that I can reproduce every time (regular Radeon SI workstation).
[16:05] <Prf_Jakob> Sarvatt: yupp that worked for my host system at least, thanks!
[17:28]  * mdeslaur shakes fist at stupid bug #982889
[17:28] <Prf_Jakob> < Sarvatt> Prf_Jakob: if you need a workaround ASAP you can cp /etc/init/lightdm.conf to /etc/init/lightdm.override, and add a sleep 2 or sleep 3 right above the exec lightdm line
[17:29] <Prf_Jakob> mdeslaur: ^ that worked for me.
[17:29] <mdeslaur> Prf_Jakob: yeah, thanks
[17:42] <mlankhorst> mdeslaur: does start on started plymouth-splash fix it?
[17:42] <mdeslaur> mlankhorst: I'll try it a little later


[07:22] <AlanBell> yothsoggoth: I have a BENQ projector that I am quite happy with
[07:27] <mattt> morning all
[07:31] <diplo> Morning all
[07:41] <mattt> yo diplo
[08:15] <oimon> guys, i'm getting Enter password for keyring "default" to unlock.  - however isn't that usually my logon passwd?
[08:18] <diplo> yeah, friend had that.. can't remember the fix but their defo is one :)
[08:18] <BigRedS> usually
[08:18] <diplo> Something got out of sync i think from memory
[08:18] <BigRedS> they can get disconnected, it's pretty common
[08:18] <BigRedS> I can't remember how to re-sync them but it shouldn't be much of a google away
[08:19] <oimon> hmm, i just needed to sleep on it. i got the password today
[08:20] <oimon> part of my problem is that my setup is a botch up of lubuntu+cinnamon. i should probably just install mint and be done
[08:21] <BigRedS> nah, I've done some pretty daft things with my DEs and had a working keyring...
[08:23] <oimon> yeah but lubuntu is a bit minimal and sometimes certain featuers don't appear due to lack of the right package
[08:26] <oimon> hands up anyone who got more than 5hrs sleep last night?
[08:27]  * BigRedS raises hand
[08:27] <BigRedS> I think
[08:27]  * oimon glares
[08:27]  * BigRedS looks smug
[08:27] <oimon> was in bed for 10 hrs but sleep didn't come easily
[08:28] <BigRedS> Ah, I was exhausted
[08:28] <BigRedS> that helped
[08:28] <DJones> O/
[08:28] <popey> morning
[08:28] <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/165847_256318177805327_1773261989_n.jpg
[08:31] <oimon> this is my life http://dilbert.com/fast/2012-05-24
[08:33] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
[08:37] <DJones> Heh, we've got IT support in dealing with some viruses on a couple of machines, he was saying he knows of a business that had 85 out 300 machines all go down with the same virus over the weekend, all I can say is Ouch, that must have been fun fixing
[08:37] <oimon> still happens then?
[08:38] <oimon> seems like 2005 since i had to deal with worm outbreaks
[08:39] <diplo> oimon: I was about to say the same thing
[08:39] <oimon> my boss had a laptop that he took home and was on a certain 10mb broadband where all users were catching 1-day old viruses that the antivir couldn't handle yet
[08:39] <diplo> I've not had that in years
[08:39] <oimon> he would come in on a monday and infect the whole office
[08:39] <diplo> I had someone come to me yesterday with internet not working
[08:39] <diplo> Bloody mcaffee again sending out broken dat files which broke the internet connection
[08:40] <oimon> i've become a little naive since using ubuntu full time
[08:40] <DJones> Yep, seems like its a new virus doing the rounds, none of the AV softwares are detecting it yet, it delivers by drive by just from an email preview and comes in 3 parts, each part is individually safe, its only when it it installs part 1 that the other 2 parts get installed by it and create the virus and the AV software then starts trying to delete & can't because it recreates/blocks the AV
[08:40] <oimon> well, naive in that although i don't trust a windows machine to login to any websites..
[08:41] <oimon> DJones, what's the attach vector? ie? java? flash?
[08:41] <DJones> I'm not sure, I'm going to find out which virus it is and have a read up in a bit
[08:41]  * oimon is wondering how peiople use IBM in datacenters. i have to reseat the blades manually a lot
[08:42] <diplo> Having staff to do it for them I guess, most people pay for a peen to look after racks dont they ?
[08:43] <oimon> remote hands are quite ££
[08:43] <oimon> our other DC is rented space
[08:43] <oimon> and 40km away
[08:45] <oimon> and then when you pop the blade in, it takes 15 mins to "discover" and over 5 mins to get past POST
[08:46] <diplo> The post part on most of our servers was the part that scared me when working remotely
[08:47] <diplo> Our files server got so bad I drove in from home before it finished posting/booting :P
[08:49] <DJones> oimon: Not found out the name of the virus yet, IT guy said it removes services
[08:49] <diplo> I dont understand viruses like that tbh
[08:50] <diplo> Destructive viruses stopped years ago, most are now about collecting info
[08:51] <oimon> yeah the ones that replaces sections of a web page are scary
[08:51] <oimon> and if you wanna get a name for being an awesome coder you just write an app or OSS
[08:52] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[08:53] <diplo> oimon: Or write a virus that takes over the worlds computers like Sasser etc, that was on the news / everything
[08:54] <oimon> morning brobostigon
[08:54] <brobostigon> morning oimon
[09:01] <DJones> How stupid are some people http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kentonline/news/2012/august/20/car_fire.aspx I can't believe that Firefighters have even had to give a warning about this, the driver of the car should be a candidate for a Darwin award
[09:01] <diplo> hah, #linux is trending on G+ and one of the pictures is rather good shot of a ladies ahem
[09:01] <diplo> My new background I think
[09:01] <diplo> :P
[09:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: Cute :-D
[09:04] <diplo> heh
[09:11] <oimon> anyone actively using any apps from the showdown comp? i'm using lightread now
[09:12] <popey> looks nice, not tried it yet
[09:13] <diplo> Used lightread for a while and another one
[09:13] <diplo> Had some issues with it timing out and not remembered to open it since
[09:29] <oimon> it replaced liferea
[09:37] <DJones> oimon: The virus in question was this one http://www.microsoft.com/security/portal/Threat/Encyclopedia/Entry.aspx?Name=Trojan%3AWin32%2FSirefef.AL
[09:38] <diplo> Avoid downloading pirated software.
[09:38] <diplo> :P
[09:39] <diplo> Due to the severe consequences associated with this threat, you may need to reinstall your Windows operating system and other computer programs, and restore your files and data from backup if the Sirefef infection fails to be resolved.
[09:39] <diplo> Recommending reinstalling, quite strong really :/
[09:41] <directhex> microsoft making a "nuke it" recommendation? that's pretty extreme
[09:42] <DJones> Very harsh, the support guy had to go direct to the AV supplier & get specialist tools from them to clear it
[09:44] <DJones> He's just been running AV on the directors computer, Symantic found 97 infections, he's running a 2nd one and thats found an additional 17 infections
[09:46] <DJones> And thats the director responsible for IT in the company
[09:46] <diplo> lol DJones, not very good group policies at your place then
[09:47] <diplo> Before I left my last place I had locked everything down, nothing could be installed unless they spoke to us
[09:47] <diplo> Not sure if they are still using it though, I just got fed up of it all.
[09:47] <directhex> i'd be surprised if we had any viruses at our company
[09:47] <popey> hjnnaqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqkiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiixs
[09:48] <popey> thanks cat
[09:48] <diplo> heh, all linux boxes directhex ?
[09:48] <DJones> diplo: Not really, saying that, people aren't alowed to use the computers for personal use, aren't allowed to install things etc, just nobody does anything and the IT policies generally are a joke
[09:48] <directhex> diplo, yes
[09:48] <diplo> I run both at work, but I still can't remember the last time I got a virus
[09:49] <diplo> Probably 5-6 years plus
[09:49] <diplo> yeah our policies were the same DJones but noone including bosses took any notice, so I just took it upon myself to stop them :D
[09:50] <diplo> Wasn't the most liked near the time I left, but did it stop lot's of issues
[09:50] <dwatkins> popey: still no Paw Sense, then? ;)
[09:50] <oimon> i wonder how the director got the virus
[09:50] <oimon> PHB clicks an email? or downloads something..
[09:51] <DJones> diplo: Luckily, I'm not in IT, I look after my own computer and thats it, everyone else can go to Windows Hell since thats all we've got, even the file servers are obsolete
[09:51] <dwatkins> oimon: perhaps through a webpage
[09:51] <DJones> oimon: click first, think later
[09:51] <diplo> ah yeah, you're in the finance dept aren't you ?
[09:51] <diplo> I think the majority of malware/viruses are now coming via JS related stuff now ( Facebook etc )
[09:51] <popey> dwatkins, seems not
[09:52] <DJones> The virus was a drive buy, you didn't even need to click on it to open it, it can infect from just a preview
[09:52] <dwatkins> popey: it would be handy (and amusing)
 My cat is currently walking on the keyboard, and Ubuntu AntiPaws has locked my screen to stop me typing lots of nonsense
[09:52] <popey> hah
[09:53] <diplo> I  used to follow someone on Twitter whos 4 year old used to nick her phone and write nonsense on her twitter feed
[09:54] <dwatkins> Sounds better than many Twitter feeds I've read.
[09:54] <davmor2> Morning all
[09:54] <oimon> DJones, sounds like an ie vulnerability then? i'd like to know if there's a specific patch that is supposed to block this
[09:55] <DJones> I suspect its come in via MS Outlook
[10:23]  * davmor2 prods czajkowski with a big pointy proddy stick
[10:58] <oimon> shhh
[11:31] <oimon> are drivers of council cage trucks allowed to take them home with them?
[11:31] <Flashtek> oimon: I suspect it depends on the LA
[11:32] <davmor2> oimon: depends on the council,  Some stipulate that you must have lunch back at the depot, some stipulate that you have lunch while you are out to save coming into the depot to go back out again
[11:32] <oimon> how about overnight?
[11:32] <Flashtek> depends on la
[11:33] <oimon> every night this week the alarm has been going off multiple times per night
[11:33] <Flashtek> call them up and ask
[11:33] <oimon> my experience of local councils is they don't know/don't care what dept you need to talk to
[11:34] <Flashtek> ok, when it goes off next time, dial 101 and tell them
[11:34] <popey> i love my local council
[11:34] <popey> they're freaking awesome
[11:34] <davmor2> oimon: Again some do some don't on the whole not, but there exceptions, ie if their car is off the road and they need to get to work etc they maybe able to drive a van that has no tools on it for example
[11:34] <Flashtek> mine vary
[11:38] <oimon> he's not exactly an approachable guy so it makes things worse
[11:38] <czajkowski> davmor2: ello
[11:39] <czajkowski> popey: me and mrevell will be in on Friday in the office if you're about
[11:39] <popey> ok
[11:41] <xr1rr> What is the best way to go about creating a server for mainly storage
[11:42] <xr1rr> It will have a big images mainly iso images for download
[11:42] <oimon> hmm how are the side buttons on my mouse configured? in thunderbird they switch between older and newer messages, but no options in the gui
[11:43] <xr1rr> An I need to be able to use wget to get/update the files often
[11:43] <BigRedS> oimon: they're normally back and forward
[11:43] <BigRedS> I can't remember how to configure them in this crazy post-1999 world
[11:43] <BigRedS> xr1rr: get something with big disks, install an http server
[11:44] <xr1rr> First idea was to use s3, but i have to download files locally and then upload and this is time wasting
[11:44] <oimon> ooh https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ManyButtonsMouseHowto
[11:45] <xr1rr> one server is most likely to crash with traffic downloading the files tho?
[11:45] <BigRedS> that depends on what sort of traffic you're expecting
[11:45] <oimon> depends what you're up to , but S3 is £££
[11:45] <BigRedS> you've not really given us any details
[11:46] <xr1rr> the files will be around 800mb and around 100 downloads per day
[11:46] <BigRedS> if they're largely static a CDN is probably what you're after
[11:47] <BigRedS> unless all or most of  your visitors are geographically close to each other
[11:47] <xr1rr> Another idea is to use bittorrent to save on bandwidth costs but I still need one good seed
[11:47] <xr1rr> I found this site; Feral Hosting anyone know about them?
[11:48] <Flashtek> not i
[11:52] <BigRedS> Anyone know if I can delegate HTTP auth? So permit access to page X if the credentials supplied will let me log in to page Y?
[11:53] <BigRedS> heh. ideally in lighty. That's not going to happen :)
[11:53] <xr1rr> So is the downloading on big files likely to crash a small server, or is it likely to just die because of network speeds
[11:53] <BigRedS> but I guess I could use mod_perl to do it
[11:53] <BigRedS> you're likely to saturate your connection before Apache cares too much
[11:54] <BigRedS> so, people will stop being able to connect because your provider wont let them, rather than because your web server has crashed
[11:56] <xr1rr> ok
[11:58] <Flashtek> xr1rr: you're dealing with multiple big file downloads yes ?
[11:58] <xr1rr> yes
[11:58] <Flashtek> bittorrent
[11:58] <Flashtek> and host on a vps
[11:58] <xr1rr> Ok, but I still need a server to act as main seed right?
[11:58] <Flashtek> i would recomment Bytemark
[11:59] <Flashtek> indeed
[11:59] <penguin42> me too
[11:59] <xr1rr> How would the best way be to setup this
[12:02] <xr1rr> Would I use apache an use it as a normal server setup or setup it as a torrent server
[12:04] <BigRedS> I'd install a web server to serve a web page explaining what's going on and to serve the torrent file (or magnet link or whatever), and install a torrent thingy on it to be a main seed
[12:05] <BigRedS> I use rtorrent
[12:07] <oimon> out of interest xr1rr what's the iso for ? a linux distro?
[12:08] <xr1rr> Yes alot of the iso's are linux distro's and a few other opensource things
[12:08] <oimon> but custom ones rather than just providing a mirror?
[12:10] <xr1rr> both. i am trying to make a search engine for linux distros and allowing them to directly download them
[12:10] <davmor2> thanks god for backups
[12:11] <davmor2> and realises he needs to do them more frequently :D
[12:11] <popey> xr1rr, isn't that going to eat bandwidth?
[12:11] <xr1rr> yep thats my problem
[12:11] <xr1rr> storage and bandwidth
[12:12] <popey> also, what's the issue you're trying to solve?
[12:12] <diplo> I was about to ask the same question
[12:12] <oimon> i think it's called distrowatch
[12:12] <xr1rr> similar to distrowatch yes
[12:13] <oimon> you don't need to host the isos
[12:13] <diplo> Just link to the distro pages etc
[12:13] <oimon> since the distro creators already do a great job of providing resilient and safe place
[12:13] <diplo> and *they* pay the bandwith charges
[12:15] <xr1rr> yes but some of the smaller distro's have problems with providing stable downloads
[12:15] <xr1rr> and with paying for the bandwidth costs
[12:15] <BigRedS> then you should mirror them
[12:15] <BigRedS> rather than set up a new, distinct, service
[12:16] <BigRedS> just subscribe to their torrents
[12:16] <popey> why do they have problems finding places to host their isos?
[12:16] <popey> there's plenty of options
[12:16] <BigRedS> and, if you can provide proper resilient hosting of the sort of volume they need, perhaps offer a proper mirror service. But I'd suggest that if you can do it so can they
[12:16] <popey> sourceforge for example
[12:17] <BigRedS> generally, though, as projects become popular enough to have problems hosting they also attract donations of service. We mirror Ubuntu and Debian here, for example. We use them quite heavily, an internal apt mirror makes sense, and so we may as well be a public one
[12:18] <xr1rr> Yeah but Im offering a place to find to host linux dsitros and talk about them, then download thing was a way to help out
[12:18] <BigRedS> Is there a need for that? I'm struggling to see the unsolved problem you're solving
[12:19] <popey> xr1rr, talk about them? a forum?
[12:19] <xr1rr> Most people for example start with one Linux distro and then they move and want to see what else is around
[12:19] <BigRedS> there's already more fragmentation than would be ideal; I don't see why a new forum for the discussion of Linux is needed. Perhaps you'll do it differently to all the fora, mailing lists, exchanges, subreddits and irc channels, but in your position I'd want a pretty clear idea of how it'll be different and why nobody's done that before
[12:20] <BigRedS> before sinking money into it
[12:21] <diplo> +1 :)
[12:21] <xr1rr> I understand what your saying
[12:22] <oimon> xr1rr, please take it as helpful critique rather than everybody bashing your idea :)
[12:23] <xr1rr> and I agree. I think I am not explaining myself rite. Basically some think like distrowatch but with a nicer web 2.0 interface and more functionally
[12:23] <oimon> distrowatch is a pretty hideous site tbh
[12:24] <xr1rr> trying to create a way of promoting Linux distro's more, that is the reason for it
[12:25] <oimon> i suspect the design of DW hasn't changed in 10 yrs
[12:26] <oimon> yep, pretty much the same http://web.archive.org/web/20020124204635/http://www.distrowatch.com/
[12:26] <xr1rr> but I think bit torrent is the best way to go for helping with downloads i guess.
[12:27] <popey> depends who the target market is
[12:28] <BigRedS> I don't think a "nice 2.0 interface" and "bit torrent" are solutions to the same problem, personally
[12:28] <xr1rr> so direct downloads?
[12:29] <BigRedS> I didn't say that :)
[12:29] <BigRedS> It just sounds like you're really eager to provide a solution so you're desperately searching for a problem that you want to solve
[12:31] <BigRedS> If what's wanted is a Web2.0 DistroWatch (whatever that is) then the expectation will be easy web-based downloading, surely?
[12:31] <xr1rr> ok
[12:32] <oimon> yesss just remembered i have cake
[12:32] <BigRedS> I know nothing of web design/development, but could Distrowatch be spruced up with a new CSS file? Would it be worth doing that to get a more modern distrowatch and distributing it as a greasemonkey plugin or somesuch? Or just sending it to whoever is behind distrowatch and asking what they think of it?
[12:32] <BigRedS> I don't really know how that works, but I'm concerned you'll put a lot of effort and some money into setting up a service that's prettier than distrowatch but not better in such a way as to attract users
[12:33] <xr1rr> but I said similar to Distrowatch
[12:33] <xr1rr> not a redesign
[12:33] <BigRedS> yeah. what should be different?
[12:33] <oimon> the way to improve things is firstly from within
[12:33] <oimon> if they don't listen then you provide the alternative independently
[12:34] <BigRedS> distrowatch already has infrastructure, audience and trust. Those are _hard_ to get, and if you can use theirs you'll save yourself a lot of bother
[12:34] <diplo> Anyone know a way of converting Psion files and contacts to a usable format ?
[12:34] <diplo> epoch32 i believe
[12:34] <BigRedS> ISTR a thingy for epoch that'd do it
[12:35] <BigRedS> if youv'e still got the psion
[12:35] <BigRedS> I can have a dredge to see if I've still got it if you do have a psion still
[12:35] <diplo> The guy has a backup of the dat files on a CF card, Psion was sent off to be fixed and has got lost by the royal mail
[12:35] <diplo> He has a older Psion that he may be able to use though
[12:35] <BigRedS> aw man. Not good :(
[12:35] <diplo> So yeah if you have
[12:36] <BigRedS> If I've got it it, it'd be for a 5mx or a 3c
[12:36] <diplo> I'll ask him shortly
[12:36] <oimon> i have a revo somewhere
[12:36] <oimon> needs new batteries probably though
[12:36] <BigRedS> cool. It might be this evening before I can check; it'll be on the fileserver at my dad's and his router keeps forgetting to let ssh in
[12:37] <diplo> :P
[12:37] <BigRedS> So I have to wait for someone to be in to reconfigure it...
[12:37] <diplo> I'm out watching Bourne film tonight so anytime in the next week or so is fine :)
[12:37] <diplo> thanks
[12:39] <oimon> http://www.ericlindsay.com/epoc/sisync5.htm
[12:39] <BigRedS> Hm, talking to a friend, he reckons I probably used PsiWin and Outlook's own export mechanism
[12:39] <diplo> yeah i've found psiwin ( I dont have outlook though )
[12:40] <oimon> looks primising http://software.frodo.looijaard.name/psiconv/
[12:40] <BigRedS> yeah, I think I did at the time. Still, when I get some ssh I'll see if I can find anything
[12:40] <diplo> ta
[12:41] <diplo> oimon: Your foo is better than mine today
[12:41] <diplo> :D
[12:42] <diplo> Cool, linux prog as well
[12:42] <diplo> Will get the data off him and give it a go
[12:42] <diplo> See if I can find my CF reader next
[12:49] <BigRedS> aha, nifty
[13:14] <Mez> AlanBell: ping :)
[13:16] <Mez> Anyone who might know anything about Global Jam: Ping
[13:17] <AlanBell> hi Mez
[13:17] <Mez> AlanBell: Afternoon :)
[13:17] <popey> hello!
[13:17] <popey> reminds me, need to ask how many people want to come to canonical for jamming
[13:17] <Mez> Is anyone organising anything at the moment for the Global Jam ?
[13:17] <popey> yes
[13:17] <popey> i am
[13:17] <popey> but only one in London, no others
[13:18] <Mez> popey: that's part of what I'm pinging for.
[13:18] <Mez> I've ran the birmingham one a few times - thinking of doing it again :)
[13:18] <Mez> As work have a conference centre attached - it makes sense :)
[13:18] <Mez> (though, Coventry, not Birmingham)
[13:19] <Mez> Anyone have thoughts/comments/suggestions/other regarding that ?
[13:19] <AlanBell> I am not going to be doing much with it (probably) as I am working at the Paralympics
[13:19] <Mez> The next full team meeting is scheduled for 2nd February 2012, 18:00 BST (17:00 UTC) and will be held in #ubuntu-uk-meeting on irc.freenode.net. <-- wow out of date :)
[13:24] <BigRedS> Ah, clearly you don't have a time machine
[13:25] <BigRedS> Ooh, I'd be up for going to a Jam in London. Not sure what I can do to help, but I'll pass biscuits around
[13:26] <Mez> BigRedS: not up for one in Coventry ? :P
[13:28] <Mez> just popped a post to the ML to see what interest might be like.
[13:29] <Mez> http://media.djhenry.co.uk/photos/2012/07/02/SJB_0312.jpg <-- someone did a god job of taking pics of our conference centre
[13:30] <BigRedS> Mez: Hmm, less up for it, but Coventry is about as far away from where I am as London is
[13:30] <Mez> BigRedS: Is that just cause it's Coventry ? :P
[13:31] <popey> so the schedule says thursday to sunday for the jam
[13:32] <BigRedS> Well, I've still not quite accepted the fact that I've moved out of London
[13:32] <popey> I am thinking I might do thursday/friday or friday/saturday
[13:32] <popey> what do people think?
[13:32] <popey> means we can get a mix of people
[13:32] <popey> especially friday/saturday
[13:32] <BigRedS> yeah, I'll only be able to do the weekend
[13:33] <Mez> does it ?  I thought it just said Fri/Sat/Sun
[13:33] <BigRedS> but I guess there'll be several who can't
[13:33] <Mez> we're able to do all of it here though :)
[13:33] <popey> got a link?
[13:33] <Mez> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/1901/detail/
[13:33] <Mez> 7th - 9th
[13:34] <KrimZon> nowadays whenever I see those wide angle shots I can almost feel the other two walls pressing against the back of my head
[13:35] <Mez> KrimZon: it's not *that* wide angle a shot (and it's taken from a doorway :)
[13:35] <popey> ah, so 7-8th in london will work well i think
[13:36] <Mez> if it was wide angle - you'd see the entrances to the 2 meeting rooms :)
[13:36] <KrimZon> ahh :)
[13:36] <BigRedS> whoah that paragraph needs reformatting
[13:36] <Mez> which paragraph?
[13:37] <BigRedS> There's only one - that's teh problem :) On the link you posted
[13:37] <BigRedS> It looks a lot like someone copied and pasted several paragraphs into something that didn't recognise the linebreaks
[13:48] <AlanBell> czajkowski can edit that
[13:49] <czajkowski> fixed
[13:50] <BigRedS> Whoop! ta!
[13:57] <popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2012-August/034914.html
[13:57] <popey> \o/ global jam london
[13:59] <Dave2> London manages to get pretty jammed by itself
[14:00] <czajkowski> doodlepoll++
[14:08] <BigRedS> How does the jam normally work? Is it working-day sort of hours then a pub? Or all-night-hackathon-and-pizza style?
[14:13] <popey> daytime
[14:24] <BigRedS> aha, cool
[14:25] <davmor2> BigRedS: normally you take the lid off and spread it on your buttered toast :D
[14:29] <BigRedS> davmor2: :)
[14:30]  * Flashtek grins
[14:40]  * DJones wonders whether he should worry that his 72 year old mother is about to read the 50 shades trilogy
[14:41] <Darael> DJones: A friend of mine is blogging some excellent snark on those books.
[14:42] <dadolino> hi to all
[14:42] <DJones> Hi dadolino
[14:43] <dadolino> I need one help
[14:43] <dadolino> about browsing
[14:43] <DJones> Ask your question, we'll see if we can help
[14:43] <dadolino> ok it goes like this
[14:44] <dadolino> I have get list of web sites  and its like 500 sites
[14:44] <dadolino> from the work
[14:44] <dadolino> but some of that links are broken and like infected
[14:45] <dadolino> I use ubuntu 12.10  and chromium brow
[14:45] <dadolino> so is there any way to protect my self from
[14:45] <dadolino> bad sites if I wisit some of them
[14:46] <Darael> The vast majority of websites that contain malware will have it targeted at Windows only.  I don't believe there's any malware in the wild at the moment targeting Linux desktops.  You're pretty much safe anyway.
[14:46] <BigRedS> why do you need to visit them? Is it a single download that you need?
[14:47] <dadolino> and what about  my saved  pass in chrome
[14:47] <dadolino> can that be seen
[14:47] <jacobw> define bad sites
[14:47] <dadolino> or is bether to use some software then   to save it in chrome brows
[14:47] <Darael> Not unless you go installing browser extensions that might be able to read it.  The browser should prompt before installing any, so...
[14:47] <dadolino> like porn sites ,
[14:48] <dadolino> one site I open it was like this site was hackd   xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[14:49] <DJones> I wonder whether something like DansGuardian would help with that, presumably it would block any dodgy sites
[14:49] <Flashtek> indeed it could
[14:49] <Darael> It might be easier to give useful information if you tell us why you're looking at this list of 500 sites?  Presumably there's something you're trying to achieve?
[14:49] <Darael> DG does sound like a good place to begin.
[14:49] <dadolino> what is that application or
[14:51] <dadolino> do you know any good firewall   router that I can download and install on my old pc
[14:51] <dadolino> in home
[14:55] <oimon> dadolino, i believe there are blacklists of sites you can add to adblock so that your browser doesn't open them
[14:55] <oimon> otherwise i've used lists which i've applied to squidguard to block staff from accessing bad sites
[14:56] <oimon> including tottenham hotsp*r home page
[14:57] <dadolino> that list is that i get
[14:57] <dadolino> from company bos and they need to
[14:57] <dadolino> have telephone numbers
[14:57] <dadolino> but some sites when i wisit it
[14:57] <dadolino> was not there and then its redirection
[14:58] <dadolino> and that sheet
[14:58] <dadolino> and then redirect me on some porno site
[14:58] <dadolino> like that companies before was on that domain but they change or what
[14:58] <dadolino> dont know
[14:58] <dadolino> and this company needs update contact numbers
[14:59] <dadolino> telephon
[15:04] <Flashtek> dadolino: ipcop, smoothwall and several others will run as a firewall/router/content filter.. depends how much control you want/have
[15:04] <dadolino> I want to have log
[15:05] <dadolino> so I can check what is going on
[15:05] <dadolino> these that you say they have logs   like when I put filter they show  what is going on
[15:06] <dadolino> DJones did DansGuardian can be installed just from   ubuntu app store ?
[15:07] <dadolino> I see it there
[15:07] <dadolino> and can I use it without proxy or I need and proxys
[15:08] <DJones> I've not used it for a long time, from what I remember about it, it just has a list of risky/dodgy website and blocks access to them if you try to go to them in a web browser
[15:09] <dadolino> ok i will install it from ubuntu store
[15:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> dadolino: You might want to take a look at Untangle too. You can drop that on a home machine (will take it over completely). It's a very powerful gateway application: http://www.untangle.com/
[15:37] <DJones> Azelphur: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/08/21/1530248/bitcoin-card-to-launch-in-2-months-says-bitinstant?
[15:40] <Azelphur> DJones, nice
[15:40] <Azelphur> I'm happy :p
[15:42] <ali1234> did pirate pay out yet?
[16:02] <popey> Azelphur, someone gave a talk about bitcoin at oggcamp
[16:04] <zleap> how do i register as a user
[16:04] <zleap> i know its something like /msg nickserv register password e-mail
[16:04] <zleap> is thatright
[16:05] <AlanBell> !register
[16:09]  * zleap is waiting for an e-mail
[16:14] <Azelphur> ali1234, no
[16:14] <Azelphur> popey, cool
[16:14] <popey> he didn't sell it well
[16:16] <Azelphur> popey, that's no good :(
[16:18] <popey> he went into quite a lengthy rant about banking and corruption
[16:18] <ali1234> of course
[16:18] <popey> and talked about some benefits of bitcoin
[16:18] <popey> and then when quizzed about what you could actually buy with them..
[16:18] <ali1234> bitcoin early adopters are all libertarian nutters
[16:18] <popey> left up a page showing tits
[16:18] <Azelphur> popey, the answer to that is...anything?
[16:19] <Azelphur> you name it, I can buy it with bitcoins
[16:19] <popey> thats not the point
[16:19] <Azelphur> oh?
[16:22] <popey> it's not straightforward
[16:22] <popey> like buying your weekly shopping or a newspaper, or any number of daily household items
[16:23] <ali1234> yeah... you used to be able t say the same thing about the internet
[16:23] <ali1234> so the question is
[16:23] <ali1234> are you going to just sit around and wait for someone else to make it
[16:23] <ali1234> or you going to do it yourself?
[16:23] <popey> indeed, that was discussed
[16:24] <popey> the analogy to the internet, and how the things that led the way were technical or porn
[16:24] <Azelphur> popey, that's because the infrastructure doesn't exist yet
[16:24] <ali1234> honestly, if you need this kind of stuff spoonfed to you in a hour long lecture format, then bitcoin is not mature enough for you yet
[16:24] <popey> Azelphur, I know
 you name it, I can buy it with bitcoins
[16:24] <Azelphur> it's perfectly capable of being super simple, and it probably will be in the future
[16:24] <Azelphur> but right now it's very new, it's only 3 years old
[16:31] <AlanBell> there is a credit card now isn't there
[16:32] <dwatkins> I expected bitcoins to stop being used since they're so easy to launder money with.
[16:34]  * AlanBell expected them to start being used for exactly the same reason
[17:03] <davmor2> Finally I got round to adding a photo to the desktop wallpaper I don't think I'll win with kitty_gonna_get_ya but hey :D
[17:03] <davmor2> I might add a more sensible one after :)
[17:24] <Azelphur> AlanBell: credit card was in the news today, eta is 1-2 months
[17:46] <bigcalm_laptop> Hi peeps :)
[17:46] <popey> yo
[17:47] <bigcalm_laptop> London is not for me
[17:47]  * bigcalm_laptop wants to be back home in the country side
[17:48] <bigcalm_laptop> Doesn't help that I have my yearly oggflu
[17:48] <davmor2> bigcalm_laptop: you're just a big girls blouse though, but I'm with you on the london thing
[17:49] <bigcalm_laptop> :P
[17:49] <davmor2> bigcalm_laptop: if you are at the elephant and castle you should meet up with filace and czajkowski
[17:49] <bigcalm_laptop> davmor2: you might have guessed, but I won't be at the LUG or WPD
[17:49] <davmor2> bigcalm_laptop: Yeah you already said
[17:50] <bigcalm_laptop> davmor2: E&C was the closest station, still a bit of a walk back to this hotel
[17:50] <bigcalm_laptop> Ah, I couldn't remember
[17:52]  * bigcalm_laptop sneezes at everything
[17:52] <brobostigon> aurghhh
[17:52] <bigcalm_laptop> Slow hotel connection is slow
[17:53] <brobostigon> :(
[17:54] <bigcalm_laptop> I'm guessing that all of the other guests are using it right now as well
[17:54] <davmor2> bigcalm_laptop: I blame aircons for eventflu's people dress for the hot clammy weather outside and then freeze to death slowly when in the conference
[17:55] <bigcalm_laptop> The conference wasn't cold
[17:55] <bigcalm_laptop> It was manageable (just)
[17:56] <czajkowski> davmor2: I'm out in canada water
[17:56] <czajkowski> you down for long bigcalm_laptop ?
[17:56] <bigcalm_laptop> czajkowski: here until Thursday evening
[17:57] <bigcalm_laptop> I'm pondering a little sight seeing (The Eye for example) at some point
[18:00] <davmor2> czajkowski: go an pick on the big girls blouse that is bigcalm_laptop show him some decent places to eat :)
[18:00] <bigcalm_laptop> czajkowski: Borough Road here
[18:01] <JamesTait> 'night all!
[18:01]  * JamesTait waves
[18:01] <bigcalm_laptop> Toodles
[18:11]  * bigcalm_laptop attacks the orange in the fridge
[18:11] <bigcalm_laptop> 1st hotel I've been to with fridge in the room!
[18:16]  * jacobw waits for complaint about the orange costing £5/200ml
[18:17] <dogmatic69> bigcalm_laptop: if you like your money, step away from the mini bar
[18:18] <davmor2> dogmatic69: he's in London it's probably still cheaper than the bar :D
[18:18] <dogmatic69> lol
[18:19] <bigcalm_laptop> There's no bar or mini-bar
[18:25] <bigcalm_laptop> What should I have for tea then?
[18:26] <bigcalm_laptop> czajkowski: any suggestions for nice eating places I won't look a tit for being there on my own?
[18:29] <AlanBell> bigcalm_laptop: grab a boris bike and head north
[18:30] <bigcalm_laptop> AlanBell: when should I stop heading north?
[18:30] <ali1234> the watford gap
[18:32] <bigcalm_laptop> I want to go home
[18:32] <AlanBell> there is loads of stuff near the river, and towards leicester square
[18:33] <jacobw> bigcalm_laptop: http://www.leonrestaurants.co.uk/restaurants/
[18:33] <czajkowski> bigcalm_laptop: at this hour, leicester square
[18:33] <czajkowski> or head down towards waterloo
[18:33] <czajkowski> lots of nice places along there to eat
[18:33] <czajkowski> from pizza express to some niec italian places
[18:34] <Azelphur> ali1234: the guys in #btcst have a drinking game going on, every time someone asks when pirate will pay out, drink
[18:34] <Azelphur> xD
[18:35] <bigcalm_laptop> czajkowski: thank you :)
[18:36] <popey> Azelphur, has he stopped paying out?
[18:37] <Azelphur> popey: he said he's shutting down and will be force withdrawing everyone over the course of the next week
[18:37] <Azelphur> so all the "pirate is a ponzi scam" people are laughing and saying we lost our money :p
[18:38] <popey> so they were right?
[18:39] <ali1234> there's still a small chance he will return deposits
[18:39] <ali1234> very very small
[18:39] <Azelphur> popey: not yet, he says he fully intends to pay everyone back
[18:39] <Azelphur> the way I see it, why would you announce your paying everyone back, stop taking deposits, and still hang around on IRC if you was scamming lol
[18:40] <Azelphur> so I'm still in the "it's probably not a scam" team
[18:40] <penguin42> Azelphur: So the price would drop a lot so that you could pay back less?
[18:40] <Azelphur> penguin42: huh?
[18:41] <penguin42> Azelphur: Well, I don't know how this works - does he pay back in $ or in BC ?
[18:41] <Azelphur> BTC.
[18:41] <ali1234> for lulz
[18:42] <ali1234> penguin42: you are probably correct about his plan
[18:43] <penguin42> ali1234: Well, if he's got the cash in $ he would want the BTC conversion price to be high to pay out minimum $ and hmm
[18:44] <mgdm> this sort of nonsense is why I have no interest in bitcoin
[18:44] <ali1234> he probably believes it will work to
[18:47] <Azelphur> penguin42: could well be, lots of people are conspiracying about that :P
[19:14] <davmor2> night all
[20:13] <Azelphur> anyone know how to add additional IPs that a server provider allocates you?
[20:13] <Azelphur> it's all on one interface
[20:13] <AlanBell> yus
[20:13] <Azelphur> how do
[20:13] <Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/6jpaDnup is how my ip addr looks atm
[20:13] <AlanBell> set them up as eth0:0 and eth0:1
[20:14] <Azelphur> AlanBell: nah, this seems to be different
[20:22] <mgdm> it's the same thing underneath
[20:23] <Azelphur> mgdm: huh?
[20:24] <mgdm> 'ip addr' and 'ifconfig eth0:1'
[20:25] <Azelphur> mgdm: not afaik, ifconfig only shows an eth1 with no virtual interfaces, ip addr shows all the IPs.
[20:26] <mgdm> Hmm. Maybe it's changed since I last cared about sysadmin
[20:27] <Azelphur> figured it out, ip addr add :)
[20:30] <penguin42> yeh, I should learn ip - I'm still an oldschooler who only really does stuff with ifconfig, I'd use an ifconfig eth1:1
[20:34] <Azelphur> hehe
[20:47] <Azelphur> re my amazon windows refund, seems amazon forgot about me haha
[20:47] <Azelphur> "We'll contact you within a maximum of 5 business days" they said this on the 10th :<
[20:47] <brobostigon> ouch
[20:48]  * Azelphur goes onto live chat to poke them
[20:48] <brobostigon> :
[20:48] <brobostigon> :)
[21:01] <brobostigon> kenny, lol
[21:02] <brobostigon> just found south park,
[21:03] <brobostigon> on some obscure freeview channel.
[21:19] <marxjohnson> my gf is about to buy a laptop, does anyone want to warn her off getting this one for any reason? http://is.gd/CZNMyt
[21:20] <daubers> marxjohnson: Noooo!! It's brown!!!!
[21:20] <Azelphur> marxjohnson: which one?
[21:21] <daubers> also the i5 or the i7?
[21:21] <marxjohnson> the i5
[21:21] <Azelphur> I think that machine might be Optimus
[21:21] <daubers> marxjohnson: Looks alright to me
[21:21] <Azelphur> nah it's not, *phew*
[21:22] <Azelphur> yep, looks good to me
[21:22] <daubers> (other than being brown)
[21:22] <Azelphur> indeed, brown
[21:22] <Azelphur> did we mention it's brown?
[21:22] <marxjohnson> what's Optimus, dare I ask?
[21:22] <daubers> I'm not sure about the brown you know
[21:22] <Azelphur> marxjohnson: an nvidia technology, nvidia takes the approach of "Oh you wanted to use Linux? Buy something else lol"
[21:22] <Azelphur> but that laptop doesn't appear to be Optimus, so you're good
[21:23] <Azelphur> gotta watch for nvidia optimus :p
[21:23] <marxjohnson> noted
[21:23] <Azelphur> marxjohnson: Linus Torvalds on nvidia optimus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYWzMvlj2RQ
[21:24] <marxjohnson> ah, that's what prompted that
[21:24] <Azelphur> yup lol
[21:24] <marxjohnson> it's not noticeably brown, I think Ikea would call it black-brown
[21:25] <Azelphur> marxjohnson: I just bought a Lenovo S205 which is a bit brown too, I like it so far
[21:25] <Azelphur> apart from amazon are being lame about giving me a windows refund
[21:25] <Azelphur> and for some reason it arrived with a damaged delete key
[22:40] <gaz1069> anyone know much about k9copy?
[22:57] <dogmatic69> anyone know what the money you have paid on your house is called? eg: if you bought for 100k and owe 75k what is the 25k called
[23:00] <penguin42> deposit ?
[23:00] <penguin42> oh, you mean even after the deposit ?
[23:00] <dogmatic69> penguin42: ye
[23:00] <dogmatic69> after
[23:01] <dogmatic69> I keep thinking collateral but its not that.
[23:04] <penguin42> ...and then I keep thinking films about hitmen
[23:06] <dogmatic69> :/
[23:06] <soreau> equity
[23:07] <dogmatic69> soreau: ta, I think that is the one
[23:31] <RashMenS> yo
[23:32] <RashMenS> #finalownage


[00:00] <mhall119> maybe, I didn't see any events using it
[00:02] <mhall119> I offered a while back to make a classroom session tracker, but didn't have enough buy-in
[00:51] <cjohnston> ya.. thats the reason for the virtual events in loco-dir
[00:56] <mhall119> yeah, maybe
[00:56] <mhall119> I was against it originally
[00:58] <mhall119> yay, more branches merged!
[00:58] <cjohnston> i think for global jams virtual things can be good
[00:59] <mhall119> I suppose it could be another subclass of BaseEvent
[01:00] <mhall119> it won't need a Venue or Attendee
[01:01] <cjohnston> it will need attendee
[01:01] <cjohnston> venue will be a channel
[01:31] <TrickyJ> Good morning friends :)
[01:53] <pleia2> cjohnston, mhall119, you guys rock :) two bugs impacting me fix committed today!
[01:54] <pleia2> (the time zone one akk submitted was particularly troubling for california, so thank you!)
[02:10] <nigelb> cjohnston: if it were anyone else, I'd say 'log a separate bug for that' :-P
[02:10] <cjohnston> blah
[02:10] <cjohnston> ill modify the original bug and say you failed to follow the details
[02:10] <cjohnston> :-)
[02:11] <nigelb> haha
[02:13] <cjohnston> let me know when you push it and ill merge it in
[02:14] <nigelb> yeah, done
[02:14] <nigelb> pushing
[02:15] <cjohnston> taking an acls test and doing code review at the same time
[02:16] <nigelb> you are awesome :D
[02:19] <cjohnston> i gave some mso4 today
[02:19] <cjohnston> do you remember what that is
[02:19] <nigelb> morphine?
[02:19] <cjohnston> ya
[02:19] <nigelb> ouch, bad accident?
[02:19] <cjohnston> did you google that
[02:19] <cjohnston> no
[02:19] <cjohnston> fell from about 12 feet
[02:20] <nigelb> ick, that's going to hurt
[02:20] <nigelb> cjohnston: I didn't work as a medical trascriptionst for 3 years for nothing,  know my way around drug names :)
[02:21] <cjohnston> hehe
[02:21] <cjohnston> according to LP, nigelb just fixed his first LD bug... YAY nigelb ! \o/
[02:21] <cjohnston> mhall119: ^ pleia2 czajkowski
[02:23] <nigelb> \o/
[02:23] <pleia2> nigelb: yay! :D
[02:23] <nigelb> pleia2: :D
[02:24] <txwikinger> mhall119: well the first step is to find out what the issues are :)
[02:56] <mhall119> yay nigelb!!!
[02:57] <mhall119> txwikinger: okay, we've got google maps working, what's the issue?
[02:59] <nigelb> mhall119: :)
[03:04] <cjohnston> its not open
[04:24] <mhall119> cjohnston: okay, so as soon as somebody provides us with an 'open' implementation that meets our needs, we'll switch
[04:25] <cjohnston> im not saying im for it
[04:25] <cjohnston> if you read the comments to his blog, you will see plenty of reasons imo to not implement it
[04:25] <cjohnston> including that they can block us if they determine we are using too much of their resources
[04:26] <mhall119> hmmm, that's not ideal at all
[04:26] <cjohnston> im fine atleast at this point staying google map
[04:26] <cjohnston> s
[04:26] <cjohnston> maybe we should formuate a blog post reply
[04:27] <mhall119> I wouldn't bother with that if the comments cover the problems
[04:27] <cjohnston> only thing is that planet users may not read comments
[04:27] <nigelb> yeah, less likely.
[04:27] <nigelb> I just read the comments
[04:27] <nigelb> after reading about them here
[04:28] <cjohnston> it kinda looks bad on us until reading the comments
[04:28] <nigelb> Though I feel its far better to talk to us before writing a blog post about it.   :-P
[04:28] <cjohnston> jk nigelb
[04:28] <cjohnston> hehe
[04:29] <nigelb> cjohnston: haha, yes!
[04:29] <nigelb> cjohnston: thought us I meant was the 3 of us right here
[04:29] <mhall119> all it takes is one commit
[04:29] <cjohnston> lol
[04:29] <nigelb> haha
[04:31] <nigelb> I can write a reply if you want me to
[04:31] <nigelb> (now that I've got a commit and all)
[06:57] <YoBoY> bonjour
[07:07] <nigelb> bonjour YoBoY
[07:08] <YoBoY> hi nigelb, how are you ?
[07:11] <nigelb> YoBoY: Hey, I'm good, hows you?
[07:11] <YoBoY> good too :)
[08:14] <dholbach> good morning
[09:54] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:54] <dholbach> hola czajkowski
[10:32] <dholbach> I just sent a mail to loco-contacts@ (LoCo Census) - it would be great if you participated in there and push others into action too!
[10:32] <dholbach> gracias!
[10:43] <markjones> dholbach, i hope you don't mind my 'borrowing' your Ubuntu in 50 minutes presentation (and modifying it for my needs)
[10:44] <dholbach> markjones, not at all
[10:45] <markjones> thanks, I've had to cut chunks out, but it's a very informative presentation :)
[10:45] <dholbach> yeah, we zipped through it quite quickly :)
[12:54] <mhall119> morning
[12:57] <nigelb> Good morning mhall119
[12:58] <czajkowski> mhall119: aloha
[12:58] <Pendulum> hiya mhall119
[12:59] <mhall119> cjohnston: do you still have a blog that's syndicated to planet?
[13:00] <nigelb> hey Pendulum, czajkowski :)
[14:23] <cjohnston> yes
[14:23] <cjohnston> mhall119: ^
[15:32] <mhall119> cjohnston: cool, when we push the new LD, would you mind blogging about the new meeting feature?
[15:33] <mhall119> also, you can mention our reasons for sticking with google maps there
[15:39] <cjohnston> I had planned on mentioning the meeting feature
[15:39] <mhall119> cool
[15:39] <mhall119> I want to get the word out so people will start using it
[16:07] <mhall119> cjohnston: is there anything else you want done before we build this release?
[16:07] <cjohnston> no
[16:07] <cjohnston> i think we can push it
[16:07] <cjohnston> and then maybe in a week or so a maintenance release
[16:07] <cjohnston> im getting ready to review the last merge
[16:15] <cjohnston> mhall119: id like to get as many devs to test before the release as possible since its such a big release
[16:16]  * daker looks at nigelb
[16:16] <cjohnston> agreed
[16:16] <cjohnston> since he is now one of us
[16:16] <cjohnston> hehe
[16:17] <nigelb> sure
[16:17] <nigelb> :D
[16:17] <nigelb> oh, btw
[16:17] <nigelb> its a holiday tomorrow
[16:17] <nigelb> I can help loads
[16:17] <cjohnston> i was gonna say
[16:17] <nigelb> just tell me what to do
[16:17] <cjohnston> that means your working
[16:17] <cjohnston> nigelb: im reviewing the last merge right now
[16:17] <cjohnston> after that.. test test test test test
[16:17] <nigelb> \o/
[16:18] <cjohnston> test test test test
[16:18] <cjohnston> only further commits will be stoppers imo
[16:24] <mhall119> cjohnston: testing? we do that?
[16:24] <cjohnston> i hope os
[16:24] <cjohnston> so
[16:24] <cjohnston> lol
[16:24] <czajkowski> me too!!!
[16:24]  * czajkowski frowns
[16:24] <cjohnston> lol
[16:25] <cjohnston> watch out or she will osm you
[16:26] <czajkowski> cjohnston: you and I are going to have a falling out buddy
[16:27]  * nigelb gets the popcorn
[16:27]  * cjohnston smacks nigelb
[16:34] <mhall119> okay, I'm setting up a testing instance for non-devs to try out, importing live data now
[16:35] <cjohnston> cool
[16:41] <YoBoY> mhall119: ready to test if you need ^^"
[16:44] <cjohnston> YoBoY: not yet
[17:19] <mhall119> 1/3 of the way through importing openid info
[17:22] <cjohnston> hear ye, hear ye. The branch lp:loco-directory is frozen. Only further commits will be show stoppers. All developers, please test, test, test and report back any problems. That is all.
[17:25] <mhall119> half-way done with openid imports
[17:25] <mhall119> which means half of you can start testing http://family.ubuntu-fl.org:8000/
[17:25] <cjohnston>  /46
[17:25] <cjohnston> uggh
[17:27] <mhall119>  /46 indeed
[17:27] <cjohnston> your /47
[17:27] <cjohnston> so hush
[17:28] <mhall119> I've conveniently created Florida Team Meeting too, for you guys to look at
[17:29] <cjohnston> lol
[17:29] <cjohnston> maybe we can use it tonight
[17:30] <mhall119> if we have a meeting tonight
[17:31] <mhall119> czajkowski: Logged in as: mhall119
[17:31] <mhall119> © 2008-2011 Canonical Ltd., Ubuntu Community. Ubuntu is a registered trademark of Canonical Ltd.
[17:31] <mhall119> About the LoCo Team Directory Project
[17:31] <mhall119> gah, paste fail
[17:31] <mhall119> czajkowski: http://family.ubuntu-fl.org:8000/meetings/ mine creating a test meeting
[17:32] <czajkowski> sure
[17:32] <czajkowski> can you give me 2 mins
[17:32] <czajkowski> just breaking another machine here
[17:34] <czajkowski> mhall119: page wont launch
[17:43] <mhall119> :(
[17:43] <mhall119> czajkowski: try again?
[17:47] <czajkowski> mhall119: wont let me log in now
[17:48] <mhall119> foo
[17:48] <mhall119> what's it saying?
[17:48] <czajkowski> gunk of erro trying to log in
[17:48] <mhall119> hmmmm, might be a problem with openid since this is a testing site
[17:49] <mhall119> I can log in though
[17:49] <mhall119> cjohnston: can you log in?
[17:50] <daker> mhall119, logged in
[17:51] <mhall119> okay, then it's likely something on czajkowski 's end
[17:52] <mhall119> I see her logging in successfully though
[17:52] <mhall119> czajkowski: can you pastebin the error you're getting?
[17:53] <czajkowski> mhall119: just logged out sorry
[17:53] <czajkowski> running for train
[17:54] <mhall119> ok
[17:54] <mhall119> when you can test it again, please copy down any errors
[17:54] <mhall119> thanks
[18:07] <YoBoY> mhall119: NameError at /meetings/team/2/detail/ical/ it appens when i click on the ical feed link in a meeting
[18:12] <Ronnie> mhall119: de pagina's laden heel erg traag (of zelfs niet)
[18:13] <Ronnie> ah, nu werkt het weer
[18:14] <Ronnie> nickname op chat is niet goed (ronnie6vd2c ipc ronnie.vd.c)
[18:19] <daker> YoBoY, bug 707553
[18:19] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 707553 in loco-directory "Error on the meetings ical feed (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/707553
[18:19] <mhall119> Ronnie: I don't understand, can you say again in English?
[18:20] <daker> LoL
[18:20] <Ronnie> lol, forget to speak english. i was saying that the pages were loading very very slow (or not even at all), but it seemds to work again
[18:21] <Ronnie> and the nickname in the irc chat is wrong (ronnie6vd2c instead of ronnie.vd.c)
[18:22] <mhall119> Ronnie: it's on a testing server, so performance may be bad
[18:23] <mhall119> Ronnie: what's the nickname at the bottom or the screen, in the footer?
[18:23] <Ronnie> ronnie.vd.c
[18:23]  * Ronnie got visit
[18:23] <mhall119> YoBoY: daker please try the ical again
[18:24] <mhall119> Ronnie: can you see if that happens on loco.ubuntu.com too?
[18:24] <mhall119> and, either way, file a bug?/
[18:24] <daker> mhall119, http://dpaste.com/352855/
[18:26] <mhall119> daker: thanks, one more time
[18:28] <daker> mhall119, seems to work
[18:28] <daker> mhall119, g2g
[18:29] <daker> i test it once at home
[18:29] <daker> i'll*
[18:31] <mhall119> thanks dak
[18:31] <mhall119> daker
[18:31] <mhall119> cjohnston: I'm pushing those 2 fixes to trunk
[18:37] <YoBoY> mhall119: i can't acces your site, it doesn't serve me the pages
[18:37] <mhall119> YoBoY: hmmm....
[18:39] <YoBoY> but i have one more "bug", if i remember well, on a meeting detail page, if i'm not part of the loco team, I shouldn't be able to see the link "add an agenda item" or something like that, when I click on that link it throw me an error and goes to the teams page (with the map)
[18:39] <mhall119> seems the built-in server got stuck, can you try again YoBoY ?
[18:40] <YoBoY> better :)
[18:40] <YoBoY> ok, the last part of my bug is wrong, I stay on the meeting detail page :p
[18:41] <mhall119> YoBoY: okay, did you file it on launchpad?
[18:41] <YoBoY> nop
[18:41] <YoBoY> i can
[18:41] <mhall119> please
[18:41] <mhall119> and thanks for testing
[18:45] <YoBoY> https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bug/707572
[18:45] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 707572 in loco-directory "don't show the "Add agenda item" link to every users (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[18:46] <mhall119> thanks
[18:46] <mhall119> that'll probably change in a later release
[18:47] <mhall119> but the next one shouldn't take nearly as long
[18:53] <YoBoY> mhall119: sorry to ask, but why I can't change the user name when I submit an agenda item ?
[18:53] <YoBoY> -can't +can
[19:01] <Ronnie> mhall, the irc on loco.ubuntu.com i still have my own lp account (peter-puk) without a dot
[19:06] <mhall119> ok, file a bug for us?
[19:07] <mhall119> YoBoY: the username is who's supposed to be talking about that item
[19:07] <mhall119> it won't always be the person entering it
[19:09] <YoBoY> ok, but if i read the bug 686268 it should be the user who added the item, and if it's not, the date and time are useless
[19:09] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 686268 in loco-directory "Add the ability to add agenda items (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/686268
[19:12] <mhall119> cjohnston: want to build the release, then we can plan to do another in a week's time to include bug fixes and translations?
[19:14] <mhall119> actually, I'm going to go ahead and push a new translations template
[19:14] <mhall119> maybe we can get some done (like French) before we release
[19:15] <YoBoY> sure :)
[19:18] <mhall119> waiting for launchpad to notice the new .pot
[19:21] <jpds> OK...
[19:31] <cjohnston> im back
[19:31] <cjohnston> mhall119: so your ready for me to build the release and push to prod?
[19:32] <mhall119> cjohnston: I was going to give a little bit for some translations for Meetings
[19:32] <cjohnston> do you think anyone will do them today?
[19:33] <cjohnston> other than maybe if we kick YoBoY ?
[19:33] <mhall119> YoBoY and jpds  I think
[19:33] <cjohnston> gotcha
[19:33] <cjohnston> YoBoY, jpds  translations are ready
[19:33] <YoBoY> lol i don't translate, but i can ping the right list to do the work, and by the way I have an IRC meeting in 30 minutes ^^"
[19:34] <mhall119> https://translations.launchpad.net/loco-directory/trunk
[19:34] <cjohnston> you kill me!
[19:34] <cjohnston> :-P
[19:34] <cjohnston> mhall119: I say we just push i then, and publicize it, and plan for a release again in one week to include translations
[19:35] <mhall119> ok
[19:35] <cjohnston> that sounds ok to you?
[19:35] <mhall119> yup
[19:36] <cjohnston> you just did the update-template, so i should be able to skip that step correct?
[19:36] <mhall119> yeah
[19:36] <cjohnston> mhall119: have you been getting a bunch of spam on your ubuntu.com email reciently
[19:36] <mhall119> YoBoY: LD is only 35% translated into French?
[19:37] <mhall119> cjohnston: not that I've noticed
[19:42] <YoBoY> well... I don't know why...
[20:25] <cjohnston> where'd everyone go
[20:33] <Ronnie> mhall119: didnt have time to file the bug earlier, but here it is: https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bug/707614
[20:33] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 707614 in loco-directory "wrong irc chat name when name contains a dot (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[20:36] <Ronnie> mhall119:  about the translations. if 10% is translated, it that translation taken with the update, and if the translation is finished later, will these changes be added?
[20:36] <cjohnston> Ronnie: right now there is a 2 day wait on translations to download
[20:36] <cjohnston> but when we push a release to production, that is when the translations get updated
[20:37] <cjohnston> so we could technically at times push releases just for translation updates
[20:38] <Ronnie> so the strings that are translated when production is updated are included, all other strings are english
[20:38] <cjohnston> afaik
[20:39] <Ronnie> thx
[20:40] <Ronnie> i let the translation team know about it
[21:18] <Ronnie> mhall119: i cant test the new loco on your website. this is because my username on LP has changed. therefore my old username has the permissions, but not my new one. on the loco server my LP id is linked to my old username, but in your instace it is linked to my new one. can you add ronnie.vd.c to debug users or should i test locally?
[21:27] <Ronnie> btw, is the chat always visible on the teams page ?
[21:27] <cjohnston> shouldnt be
[21:27] <cjohnston> is it now
[21:28] <cjohnston> uggh
[21:28] <cjohnston> NIGEL!
[21:29] <cjohnston> nigelb: what did you do
[21:29] <cjohnston> lol
[21:30] <cjohnston> Ronnie: can you take a look at it and see if you can figure out why please?
[21:31] <Ronnie> currently importing-live-data, then checking the username. if i have some time left, ill check the 'chat visible'
[21:31] <cjohnston> thanks
[21:32] <cjohnston> family just got home and its birthday dinner for the little guy
[21:32] <cjohnston> ill bbl
[21:32] <cjohnston> o/
[21:36] <Ronnie> who put the inline <style> tags into the teams_detail.html page. cant these be moved to the appropiate css file?
[21:38] <cjohnston> nigel.. its to set them center
[21:38] <cjohnston> its cause it was display:none
[21:38] <cjohnston> huh?


[16:49] <mozmck> Why do the 4.16.x mainline kernel packages say linux-image-unsigned...?
[16:51] <apw> mozmck, because the packaging is coming from a later release where installed kernels (on amd64 and ppc64el) are signed by default; the unsigned kernel is therefore shipped in linux-image-unsigned for test builds
[16:52] <mozmck> So I'm building a kernel to ship with the preemp-rt patch.  Do I need to do something to sign the package or is it fine like it is?
[16:53] <mozmck> I'm using the ubuntu patches such as these: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v4.16.15/
[16:53] <mozmck> Then applying the preempt-rt patch and making relevant config changes.
[16:54] <apw> mozmck, well yes, it makes no difference as the consumer won't have any common key with you anyhow
[16:56] <apw> mozmck, though if you also switch off the efi_signed (and similar) flags in debian.master/rules.d/*.mk
[16:56] <apw> mozmck, you will get a linux-image package again, though the contents are unsigned still
[16:56] <mozmck> Will that affect booting on efi systems at all?
[16:59] <apw> mozmck, no more than the ones you are already producing, ie they will be unsigned
[17:00] <apw> i suppose once enfocement of efi signatures becomes a thing you will have to talk people thorugh
[17:00] <apw> turning that off to boot your non-standard kernels
[17:00] <apw> but that is the same for everyone
[17:00] <apw> including us when we do test kernels
[17:09] <mozmck> apw: Ok, thanks for the information!  That was just what I needed to know.


[14:20] <qengho> Hi all.  I'm the signing uploader of a source package. The build fails.  What permission am I lacking in that I can not ask it to retry building, but some others can?
[14:20] <qengho> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/28.0.1500.52-0ubuntu2/+build/4749281
[14:34] <cjwatson> qengho: You're the signer, but you don't actually have upload permissions, I see - Chris sponsored that for you
[14:34] <cjwatson> qengho: Anyone with direct upload permissions can retry builds
[14:44] <qengho> cjw, thx.
[22:28] <autojack> is there a way to get Launchpad to keep more than one version of a package in a PPA?
[22:54] <lifeless> autojack: not in a single series, each series can have just one version of a package
[22:55] <autojack> what constitutes a series?
[22:55] <autojack> 1.0.0 vs. 1.1.0 ?
[22:57] <autojack> for example, I see that the nginx PPA has 1.0.14 and 1.4.1 versions of the same package and distro combination.
[22:57] <autojack> the reason I ask is, the guy who maintains the Node.js PPA is saying he can't keep e.g. version 0.8 and 0.10 in the same PPA.
[22:58] <autojack> I was just trying to figure out what the constraints/rules are.
[23:00] <lifeless> autojack: a series - a release of ubuntu
[23:00] <lifeless> precise, saucy etc.
[23:01] <lifeless> whats the url for the nginx ppa?
[23:35] <autojack> lifeless: sorry, I was in a meeting: http://ppa.launchpad.net/nginx/stable/ubuntu/pool/main/n/nginx/
[23:39] <lifeless> autojack: https://launchpad.net/~nginx/+archive/stable
[23:39] <lifeless> autojack: one per release of ubuntu
[23:40] <autojack> I see that there, but in http://ppa.launchpad.net/nginx/stable/ubuntu/pool/main/n/nginx/ I see e.g. nginx-common_1.0.14-1ppa1~precise_all.deb and nginx-common_1.4.1-1ppa1~precise_all.deb
[23:41] <autojack> how are those different, other than version number?
[23:41] <autojack> as far as I can tell, if I had that PPA configured on a Precise system I could in theory install either of those two versions.
[23:41] <lifeless> so there are some complex gc rules about when things are deleted
[23:41] <lifeless> I suspect a change in architecture support leading to a bug
[23:41] <autojack> ah interesting.
[23:41] <autojack> so you think this is just a fluke on the Launchpad side?
[23:42] <lifeless> positive
[23:42] <autojack> not normally supported?
[23:42] <autojack> interesting. OK then.
[23:42] <lifeless> wgrant: ^
[23:42] <lifeless> autojack: it is not supported, most definitely.
[23:42] <autojack> I was just trying to get a definitive answer re: the basic question of >1 version being supported.
[23:42] <autojack> so that's fine.
[23:42] <autojack> annoying for me, but I can understand why it would work that way.
[23:42] <lifeless> 1.0.14 isn't in the precise sources publication
[23:43] <lifeless> http://ppa.launchpad.net/nginx/stable/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/source/Sources
[23:43] <autojack> ahhh
[23:43] <lifeless> so I'm fairly sure LP thinks its gone, not sure why the old debs are being published still
[23:43] <trism> lifeless: it is in Packages though, at least on amd64 http://ppa.launchpad.net/nginx/stable/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/binary-amd64/Packages
[23:47] <lifeless> trism: yes, otherwise the deb wouldn't be there, but this is most definitely a bug, Such overlaps are meant to occur but only transiently.


[00:28] <Mylon> Samsung A01-us
[00:28] <Mylon> Old thing.  I've re-soldered the power connector on it.  Twice.  Came with a lot of crapware too.
[01:11] <DarinMiller> I hope samsung uses better supported touchpads than lenovo.  No matter what I change on the my Yoga2, it always detects my palm.  My dell laptop touchpad works perfectly (after a little tweaking).
[01:13] <Mylon> The touchpad on this is like 25% bigger than most so it's hard to type on the keyboard without touching the touchpad.
[01:15] <genii> DarinMiller: If the xinput properties listed for the touchpad show a palm detection property, you could check to see if it's enabled
[01:15] <Mylon> I have it enabled, but even after fiddling with the settings I can't make it work.  Not really sure which way to put the sliders.
[01:20] <DarinMiller> I have played with xinput in the past but none of the parameters I changed made any difference.  It's been 1.5 years since I've tried.  I will try again. Also, libinput does not work any better than xorg/synaptic.
[03:40] <Mylon> Yeah, I can't figure out how the hell the touchpad settings work.
[03:41] <Mylon> If I increase speed slightly it becomes unusable, if I decrease it slightly it's slow as mollases.
[08:13] <rohan> I'm on Kubuntu wily, and can't find how to start / open muon
[08:13] <rohan> I can't find it in the kickoff menu or in alt-f2
[08:14] <rohan> any idea what could be going on?
[08:16] <valorie> rohan: if you have discover, you can no longer have muon package manager
[08:16] <valorie> or vice-versa
[08:16] <rohan> valorie: actually, i just noticed that muon-discover is not installed :-/
[08:16] <rohan> feeling quite dumb
[08:16] <rohan> i messed around with my system a bit.
[08:16] <rohan> do you know how to install all the recommends of a package?
[08:16] <valorie> ok, well, it's being renamed to plasma discover
[08:17] <valorie> right now muon package manager needs some work, but it can be installed if discover is gone
[08:17] <rohan> actually, i think i'm going crazy: http://pastebin.com/2ZQ2phwX
[08:18] <valorie> wow
[08:18] <valorie> that's rather nuts
[08:19] <valorie> please try `sudo apt install -f`
[08:19] <valorie> but first do an update
[08:19] <valorie> -f means "fix"
[08:20] <rohan> strange, i had to do an apt-get install --reinstall muon-discover
[08:20] <rohan> i wonder how broken my system really is :(
[08:20] <rohan> valorie: i did an upgrade, dist-upgrade, and an install -f
[08:20] <valorie> perhaps you removed some files manually or so?
[08:21] <rohan> i sure hope not, i try not to touch managed files manually
[08:21] <valorie> good advice for all
[08:21] <rohan> i just did a ppa-purge for kubuntu-backports
[08:21] <valorie> hmmm, ok
[08:21] <rohan> because after installing backports, vlc was messed up
[08:21] <rohan> videos wouldn't play right
[08:21] <valorie> ah, all you need to do is change the skin for vlc
[08:21] <rohan> and dragon player crashed the system
[08:21] <valorie> ah
[08:21] <rohan> valorie: argh, that's all it would have took? :(
[08:22] <rohan> how do i change the skin for vlc?
[08:22] <valorie> well, then goodbye backports
[08:22] <valorie> not sure, I never use it, but I've seen that reported quite a few times here
[08:22] <rohan> valorie: yeah, i figured with 16.04 just 2 months away, i can live with an older kde
[08:23] <valorie> well, older plasma
[08:24] <rohan> right, keep forgetting the new terminlogy
[08:24] <rohan> it was much simpler in the kde 3 days :P
[08:24] <rohan> i wonder if the kde 3 fork is still around
[08:24] <rohan> trident?
[08:24] <rohan> https://www.trinitydesktop.org/
[08:26] <rohan> looks like it's alive and kicking! might give it a spin
[08:27] <Retard_> hi! I have a question about kubuntu amd drivers, is it good place to ask? Never used irc before ;/ ;)
[08:28] <valorie> !amd
[08:28] <valorie> please change your nick; that is an insulting term
[08:32] <Ret__> thank You for link. Generally I installed previous drivers and they worked; Now i tried to install new version, but I cannot uninstall previous one.
[08:42] <valorie> Ret__: doesn't the driver manager do that automatically?
[09:57] <amichair> on Kubuntu 15.10, several times a day the window manager crashes - I can see the windows but can't move them, switch between them, alt-tab etc. Is there any way to recover from this without killing all open applications?
[09:59] <amichair> currently I restart the sddm service, but then I lose all my work. And the second monitor goes blank and cannot be configured in system settings until a full reboot.
[10:03] <hateball> amichair: kquitapp plasmashell && kstart plasmashell
[10:03] <nedo> Hi my friends, in a virtual machine i've installed kubuntu 15.10 i read on your site news about Plasma 5.5.3 i want to try it absolutely, i've added repository backport, sudo apr-get update sudo apt get upgrade, but at the reboot i have only black sreen there is some configuration file need to be edited?
[10:03] <amichair> hateball: I don't think it's plasmashell that's the problem, but the window manager
[10:04] <hateball> Do whatever you feel like
[10:05] <amichair> ?
[10:12] <amichair> btw, is 5.5.4 being backported too? Maybe they fixed something related.
[10:21] <acheron88> sddm can misbehave on the upgrade
[10:22] <acheron88> anything in /etc/sddm.conf ?
[10:23] <stefanw> amichair: try running "kwin_x11 --replace" when this happens
[10:24] <acheron88> one bug was it adding a 'placeholder' default session for sddm
[10:24] <amichair> stefanw: I'll try it next time it happens (likely within a few hours...) - thanks
[10:24] <acheron88> which caused sddm to fail to start in some cases, especially if trying to use autologon
[10:25] <amichair> acheron88: there is no /etc/sddm.conf, only /etc/sddm/Xsession
[10:25] <acheron88> ok. so not that bug then....
[10:57] <markit> Before I waste time dowloading 1.2GB of ISO, does recent daily build of 16.04 have the installer working? (some time ago just crashed with some errors)
[11:00] <soee_> hmm no idea
[11:18] <markit> no one trying 16.04? so strange
[11:19] <hateball> markit: it's in #ubuntu+1
[11:19] <hateball> !xenial
[11:21] <markit> thanks hateball, did not know the existence of that channel
[11:22] <soee_> markit: the bug probably still is there
[11:22] <hateball> markit: :)
[11:22] <soee_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1529450
[11:22] <markit> if they don't fix it, no one will test :(
[12:05] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[12:23] <aboudreault> BluesKaj, Hey. I finally decided to switch netrunner to latest Kubuntu. It works like a charm now :)
[12:30] <BluesKaj> aboudreault, good to hear, glad things are working out  :-)
[12:38] <cristian_> stavo provando applicazione messaggistica istantanea
[12:39] <cristian_> aggiunto account gmail ma all'avvio va in crash
[12:43] <BluesKaj> !it | cristian_
[14:03] <fernando__> ???
[15:29] <Alina-malina> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/wily/release/  hey all, which release should i download for my asus g53sx ?
[15:30] <OerHeks> 64 bit, if that laptop has an i7 cpu
[15:31] <Alina-malina> yes
[15:32] <Alina-malina> is it ok if download file says desktop-amd64.iso?
[15:32] <OerHeks> yes, amd64 = 64 bit.
[15:33] <Alina-malina> oh heh ok thanks, hope it wont lag on this laptop
[17:26] <azarus> Hello!
[17:28] <soee> hiho azarus
[17:28] <azarus> I just wanted to know about the future of Kubuntu, since Jonathan Riddell stepped down. Is Kubuntu going to be there in the future?
[17:29] <azarus> Heyo soee.
[17:30] <soee> azarus: yes. devs are working now on 16.04 release.
[17:30] <azarus> Ah, great to hear.
[17:30] <azarus> Any ETA's on it?
[17:32] <genii> azarus: Third Thursday in April, sometime after 4pm GMT
[17:32] <azarus> Thanks! Going to install kubuntu now. :P
[17:33] <azarus> I'm actually a newb to the KDE de, anything i should know?
[17:34] <genii> azarus: If you plan to go to 16.04 later, probably best to install the 14.04 and not 15.10 and then later go straight from 14.04 to 16.04.1 when thet point release comes out ( typically June-July)
[17:35] <azarus> Hm. I don't think i would mind doing a clean install if i had to, though.
[17:36] <azarus> I'm quite clean with my OS's, all i would have to do would be to copy my /home.
[17:38] <azarus> Is it not possible to dist-upgrade from a non-LTS release?
[17:43] <genii> azarus: Usually from the one just prior. So in this case 15.10, but there have been some issues reported with this currently. All the other interim releases ( 14.10 and 15.04) are now End of Life and problemmatic to upgrade from
[17:44] <azarus> OK, got it. And another question, is there a real difference between Linux Mint KDE and Kubuntu?
[17:44] <genii> azarus: If you run interim releases, you would normally have to go then in this case 14.10->15.04->15.10->16.04    whereas you can go straight from LTS to LTS, so 14.04->16.04.1 directly
[17:45] <genii> azarus: Mint has their own repositories so when issues arise you need to consult their support and not Kubuntu
[17:45] <azarus> Sure, but i mean in the overall user experience, since both are based of ubuntu.
[17:46] <genii> azarus: I can't speak to that since I haven't run Mint before :)
[17:46] <azarus> Ah, okay, no problem. X)
[17:46] <genii> ...besides which, it's a fairly subjective question, even for those that have
[17:47] <azarus> True. I guess i'll just try them both and see which floats my boat.
[17:47] <genii> That's usually the best way
[17:48] <azarus> Yeah. I'm currently writing the 15.10 Kubuntu Live USB to try it out.
[17:51] <genii> azarus: First thing you may want to install is kubuntu-restricted-extras ( this will give you Flash for playing videos, some MS fonts, and other stuff which cannot be installed by default due to licensing or other issues)
[17:51] <azarus> So: "sudo apt-get install kubuntu-restricted-extras"?
[17:52] <genii> !info kubuntu-restricted-extras
[17:52] <azarus> Hm? That's new to me.
[17:52] <genii> azarus: First you need to make sure that the multiverse repository is enabled, but yes
[17:52] <azarus> Ok.
[17:54] <azarus> I'll be back, booting the Live USB.
[18:03] <GreenDay> good evening from France!
[18:03] <GreenDay> amarok crashed
[18:03] <GreenDay> 2 time
[18:11] <genii> GreenDay: Please start it by commandline in Konsole, and then make a pastebin of the output when it crashes, then give us the URL for the pastebin
[18:17] <aboudreault> any idea what's wrong if for some applications we cannot see their systrays ?
[18:17] <GreenDay> [jeu. févr. 11 18:38:51 2016] nouveau E[    PBUS][0000:01:00.0] MMIO write of 0x00000001 FAULT at 0x4188ac [ IBUS ]
[18:23] <GreenDay> genii: ok but now it works :/
[18:23] <GreenDay> :)
[18:24] <genii> Interesting
[20:03] <GreenDay> what is that software that display sysinfo on the wall paper?
[20:06] <genii> GreenDay: There's a few different widgets that do that stuff. You can right-click on empty desktop, add a widget, then check out the ones on the default list to see if any of them there are what you're thinking of
[20:07] <genii> GreenDay: If it's none of those, you can do the "Get New Widgets" option found there also
[20:09] <acheron88> could also be thinking of conky: https://github.com/brndnmtthws/conky
[20:11] <genii> Yes, possibly
[20:11] <genii> Without a screenshot it's pretty difficult to tell :)
[20:11] <acheron88> yes
[20:12] <genii> Although conky should be installed from repos and not from git
[20:12] <acheron88> normally, yes
[20:16] <acheron88> but if they did mean conky, I was going to link to this as yet unresolved issue with plasma 5: https://github.com/brndnmtthws/conky/issues/145
[20:16] <acheron88> which is mildly annoying
[21:52] <abel_> hola


[14:35] <zed> hi there !
[15:21] <yann2> what time is the server meeting?
[15:22] <yann2> 16UTC? mmh oh then I must have missed it :(
[15:22] <Nafallo> 30 Dec 16:00: Server Team
[15:22] <kagou> Start: 2008-12-30 16:00 Timezone: Etc/GMT
[15:22] <yann2> kagou > and are we GMT+1 or +2? :]
[15:22] <Nafallo> @France
[15:22] <kagou> yann2, your are in France ? ^^
[15:22] <yann2> kagou > yes :)
[15:23] <Nafallo> hrmm. no idea how that works :-P
[15:23] <Nafallo> @time
[15:23] <kagou> +1
[15:23] <Nafallo> @time France
[15:23] <yann2> mmh ok :)
[15:23] <yann2> @time Paris
[15:23] <Nafallo> @time Paris
[15:23] <Nafallo> \o/
[15:23] <kagou> yes :
[15:23] <yann2> ok in half an hour then :)
[15:23] <kagou> :)
[15:24]  * persia doubts the server meeting will be held this week, but looks forward to it, just in case.
[15:24] <yann2> yeah I'm a bit unsure too :)
[15:54] <yann2> anyone? :]
[16:01] <nealmcb> \o/
[16:03] <yann2> :'(
[16:18] <zed> :)
[16:19] <yann2> as there is a ubuntu server meeting and it seems I am the only one attending I suggest that decisions should be taken by me :]
[16:20] <[NikO]> o/
[16:24] <persia> yann2, There will likely be a real meeting next week.
[16:24] <yann2> persia > I know, it's alright :) just came to discuss about cgi's
[16:24] <yann2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/WebArchitecture
[16:25] <yann2> its likely to take ages to get anything improved so a week more or less
[16:27] <persia> yann2, Doesn't that only require some MIRs?
[16:27] <yann2> MIRwhat?
[16:27] <persia> Well, whichever things you want in main.
[16:27] <persia> Main Inclusion Report
[16:27]  * persia looks for docs
[16:27] <yann2> well, fastcgi is not good enough to be in main
[16:28] <persia> Well, then I'd think that'd be the first part to fix :)
[16:29] <persia> Or find another way to run PHP fast and in separated processes
[16:29] <persia> Or find another tool to write the code.
[16:29] <Nafallo> \o/ SPACE STATION \o/
[16:29] <yann2> persia > yeah, that is all the issue :P
[16:30] <persia> yann2, Does that need a meeting?  I'd think it just needed coding.
[16:31] <yann2> well basically i wanted to know ubuntu's advice on using php in a safe way
[16:31] <Nafallo> yann2: well. don't? ;-)
[16:31] <yann2> :P
[16:31]  * Nafallo hides
[16:32] <yann2> idea is, make the point that there may be an issue (or learn how to do it properly if there is a way) and try to improve packaging and modules if there is not
[16:32] <persia> Generally I've heard that PHP is hard to use safely.
[16:32] <yann2> yeah but it's quite a big issue :P
[16:33] <yann2> PHP apps aren't the safest
[16:33] <yann2> so if the install is not safe neither...
[16:33] <yann2> we don't want other locowebsites to be hacked to we? :P
[16:33] <Nafallo> I proposed throwing PHP out of Ubuntu some years ago... ;-)
[16:34] <yann2> we are trying to use fastcgi for both python and PHP
[16:34] <persia> True, but I'd think that there are two ways forward: either suggest an alternate technology, or investigate why it isn't safe, and figure out why.
[16:34] <yann2> and we notice that python doesnt work 100% properly with fastcgi, and that fastcgi isn't exempt of bugs
[16:34] <yann2> persia > well I suggested fastcgi
[16:34] <yann2> but it needs attention :)
[16:35] <yann2> Safe Mode was removed in PHP 6.0.0.
[16:35] <persia> Understood.  I'm just not sure how a meeting helps that.
[16:35] <yann2> uhuh. wonder how php apps will be secure with php6...
[16:36] <yann2> persia > so how should I come up with the problem?
[16:36] <persia> How do you mean?
[16:36] <yann2> if php6 removed safe mode if means there is no way (even ugly) to run php in an even slightly secure way
[16:37] <persia> In that case, I'd suggest that PHP isn't the right tool to use.
[16:37] <yann2> that doesn't help me much :P and ubuntu.com is using php :)
[16:39] <persia> Then the question to ask is: what needs to change to make PHP safe?
[16:40] <yann2> persia > well CGI with suexec makes it safe
[16:40] <yann2> mod_fastcgi makes it fast
[16:41] <persia> And what's wrong with mod_fastcgi?
[16:42] <yann2> developped by a single guy, buggy, not properly documented, ...
[16:42] <persia> So it needs help?
[16:42] <yann2> I am not a hardcore C developer :)
[16:42] <persia> Are the bugs well documented?
[16:42] <yann2> basically I just wanted to see if people agreed that there was a problem, and start a discussion if it could be improved
[16:43] <yann2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+bug/162082
[16:43] <yann2> fastcgi randomly looses children, which is pretty bad ;)
[16:43] <yann2> it also doesn't handle some EAGAIN signals from other bug reports I've seen, these people telling me it was important - but I don't know much about that other one
[16:44] <yann2> and ultimately, it's in universe
[16:44] <yann2> but, yeah, I don't hope to get this fixed anytime soon, so one week more or less :P
[16:44] <persia> Well, converting from main to universe is trivial, if it's not buggy, so let's ignore that bit for now.
[16:45] <persia> Still, I don't think a discussion in a meeting will help: it sounds like you need a developer to help track down and fix the bugs.
[16:46] <yann2> nah, I wanted to know if there was a secure way to run php, and if not, to get acknowledged that there was an issue and that it may get fixed at some point when a dev has time
[16:46] <yann2> at least that was the idea :P
[16:46] <persia> Well, my understanding was that there were two classes of issues with PHP: firstly that it was hard to create a secure environment for it, and secondly that there were language features that encouraged insecure development practices.
[16:46] <yann2> but the first step is to agree that there is a problem, and the best way I thought to get this done was to raise it during a meeting
[16:47] <persia> Mind you, either of these could be incorrect: it's just hearsay.
[16:47] <yann2> glad to hear I'm not the only one fighting with it :)
[16:48] <yann2> my very basic requirement is that if I am running two sites, one for A, and one for B, B doesn't get destroyed if A gets hacked
[16:48] <persia> Well, I'd recommend rather putting it as an idea on brainstorm, and once you have a strong number of votes, and some more input on the correct solution, put together a spec.
[16:48] <persia> It would get lost in a meeting, mostly.
[16:49] <yann2> as it would in brainstorm unless I start linking it everywhere...
[16:49] <yann2> it's a very technical issue so most people won't even know what it is
[16:49] <yann2> is there a brainstorm for ubuntu-server?
[16:50] <persia> No, it's all the same brainstorm.  Splitting it up into lots of little brainstorms would just make it even harder to track.
[16:51] <yann2> so you are saying brainstorm is the best way to report that type of issue?
[16:52] <persia> Of the mechanisms available, yes.
[16:52] <persia> Really, what you want to do is find a developer who wants PHP to be fast and secure, and get them to help out.
[16:52] <yann2> what's the meeting about then? :/
[16:52] <yann2> pretty much :)
[16:52] <persia> Tends to be status summary of work underway.
[16:52] <yann2> ok
[16:53] <persia> If you want to identify new work, that's best done by getting something discussed at UDS.
[16:53] <yann2> maybe I can report this as a bug in launchpad
[16:53] <yann2> i know, but a/ the US are very far :) b/ I don't really agree with their immigration policies
[16:53] <persia> But regardless, the key is really to get some developer interested, for which meetings tend not to be ideal mechanisms: meetings rather being used for developers to share their current activities.
[16:54] <yann2> I guess I'll have to wait for UDS to come over
[16:54] <persia> Well, there's remote participation, as well.
[16:56] <yann2> bah. I'll open a launchpad bug, and maybe some day someone will realize how fucked up the situation really is :(
[16:57] <persia> yann2, I think the fact that PHP isn't secure is widely disseminated.  Whether it can be secure is an interesting question.
[16:57] <yann2> it is as secure as any other web app, if you want my advice.
[16:57] <persia> That said, the trick is not to get someone to realise the issues with the current situation, but rather to get someone to want to make PHP work, rather than selecting something else when they discover PHP isn't secure.
[16:57] <yann2> CGI doesnt really make a difference if its PHP python or bash
[16:58] <persia> Oh, I agree.  I personally don't think CGI can be made secure.  I think that needs a sandboxed application server system.
[16:58] <yann2> persia > disagree on this, it's even the usual way to do it. Open a bug, get people to confirm it, find an issue, get someone to fix it, patch it, test it, deploy :)
[16:58] <yann2> s/issue/solution
[16:59] <yann2> well ultimately you could chroot your fastcgi apps
[16:59] <yann2> which wouldnt make it 100% secure but a lot more secure :)
[16:59] <persia> That's an interesting idea: it provides the sandbox.
[17:00] <yann2> file permissions can also provide a sandbox - kind of.
[17:00] <yann2> runnnig as a low privileged user is pretty much the same as using mod_php and www-data
[17:00] <persia> Well, not really, because they application isn't restricted from accessing system files well.  That's the current solution, isn't it?
[17:01] <yann2> yes
[17:01] <yann2> well, there is apparmor then...
[17:02] <yann2> never tried this on a webserver, i probably should
[17:02] <yann2> would need developping an apparmor profile, surely this could be made by the distro
[17:03] <persia> Well, "by the distro" is mostly just by us, no?
[17:07] <yann2> by the distro means it should be made easy to the final sysadmin, ie the sysadmin deploying shouldnt have to rewrite the rules every time
[17:07] <yann2> #312493  - some day.. maybe :)
[17:08] <persia> Oh, I'd agree with that: I still think it needs someone to do it.
[17:08] <persia> Fastest way to get it done is to investigate apparmor, write a draft profile, and get it included.
[17:08] <yann2> well to get apparmor you would need fastcgi first...
[17:09] <persia> But fastcgi is already in Ubuntu, and likely compiled in an apparmor compatible way.
[17:09] <yann2> .. but it's in universe, buggy, and not sure about apparmor :)
[17:10] <persia> Again, moving from universe to main is trivial.  Also, I'm not sure the distinction will remain, based on the discussions on archive reorganisation.
[17:10] <yann2> you mean I would get support from canonical for universe? that'd be surprising
[17:11] <yann2> btw yeah you say it's trivial, but if it was in main I would use it at my company (I'm from the happy few with support :P) and expect them to fix the bugs - so it would mean quite a lot :)
[17:12] <yann2> longer term (1-2 years) I'd like to see ubuntu as a good web hosting distro, with a safe and fast way to run php/python apps by default and in a supported manner, with apparmor policy etc etc
[17:12] <persia> Well, that presumes the not-quite-accurate assumption that "main" == "applications with support provided by Canonical".
[17:12] <yann2> gotta start somewhere  :P
[17:13] <yann2> mh?
[17:14] <yann2> they can't be 100% involved in all the packages in main but at least my bug reports would draw attention to them right? :(
[17:15] <yann2> anyway - at least I am glad you agree the current setup isn't optimal, that's my first step :)
[17:15] <persia> I don't know much about how Canonical support works, but I do know that the set of applications for which that support is provided doesn't match main, and that there was a bug about that, and it was fixed in intrepid.
[17:16] <persia> There's now some gui that lets one identify which specific packages are supported.
[17:16] <persia> Anyway, that's not really important.
[17:16] <persia> The important part is that you've identified something that you consider a problem.
[17:17] <persia> You've specifically identified three strategies that could help improve it: 1) fixing bugs in fastcgi, 2) chrooting individual websites (as opposed to the web server itself), and 3) creating an apparmor profiles.
[17:18] <persia> Since you've said that you aren't yet proficient in C, I'd recommend concentrating on 3) for now, as that's likely most accessible without much C.
[17:19] <yann2> no wait it is *very* important to me :|
[17:19] <yann2> and I got support for hardy :x
[17:20] <yann2> actually I think the bug is important and affects many website
[17:20] <yann2> so I may spend some time trying to get a what-i-consider-to-be-secure appliance...
[17:21] <yann2> and document in a more wider form the issues , solutions, with proof o concepts, benches etc
[17:21] <yann2> it's a good two months of work but bah, someone gotta do it :(
[17:21] <persia> That sounds like the right path.
[17:22] <persia> I'm sure you'll end up with some suggested changes to the default configuration, and some patches as a result of that investigation.
[17:22] <persia> I'm also fairly sure it shouldn't be very hard to get those applied to the packages in the repos so that nobody else has to repeat the work.
[17:23] <yann2> well it is going to be based on fastcgi which is lacking a lot of attention
[17:23] <yann2> but it's interesting work :)
[17:24] <persia> Somehow I think that once you get started, and start publishing and sharing your results, you'll find like-minded people to help get the attention it needs.
[19:04] <nealmcb> bug 312493
[19:31] <yann2> nealmcb > comments and additional description to come soon ;)
[19:35] <nealmcb> yann2, persia: thanks for the server team meeting conversation.  you should have done a "startmeeting" first though - makes it easier to record.  No reason not to....
[19:35] <yann2> nealmcb > it wasnt a meeting, really :)
[19:36] <yann2> but we should hae discussed on -server, ack and sorry for that
[19:36] <nealmcb> but it was a conversation that you'll want to refer the server team to - there are folks that would read it and provide feedback
[19:37] <yann2> nealmcb > i will add further descrpition to my wiki page and launchpad bug and refer server team people to it - I need some time to clarify my mind about what is technicaly posible
[19:39] <nealmcb> yann2: thanks - even better.  persia asked good questions :)
[19:39] <yann2> i want to try fastcgi with apparmor and chroot first, see how it works and what it improves
[19:39] <yann2> and if I get it to work, write a doc how I did it, and study if it can be made easy enough for general purpose