[03:37] <Madpilot> hi Burgundavia
[04:13] <jsgotangco> can anyone confirm if our PPC runs on non-apple hardware (like Pegasos, Power, etc)
[04:18] <jsgotangco> jbailey, ping?
[04:19] <jbailey> jsgotangco: pong
[04:19] <jsgotangco> ahh
[04:19] <jsgotangco> jbailey, any success?
[04:20] <jbailey> jsgotangco: Still beating on it.  There will be an upload before I go to sleep.
[04:20] <jsgotangco> i just updated some pages now
[04:21] <jbailey> Cool, I'll repull svn one more time then.
[04:21] <jbailey> I've still mostly been just thinking.
[04:22] <jbailey> The problem is that the current svn layout isn't ideal for making packages.
[04:22] <jsgotangco> hmm what is the ideal layout? its always been like that when i came
[04:22] <jsgotangco> (it actually needs housekeeping)
[04:23] <jbailey> It should be easy to see things as -common, -kde, and -gnome
[04:23] <jbailey> ((or kubuntu-, ubuntu-, etc...)
[04:23] <jbailey> The problem is that as soon as something references a file in its parent directory, that will break when packaged.
[04:23] <jbailey> Unless the whole thing is thrown into one large source package.
[04:24] <jbailey> The problem with one large source package is that it's very hard not to accumulate WIP cruft in there.
[04:24] <jsgotangco> we're being convinced to move away from svn and go baz after this so that it will also give us a window to clean up the stuff
[04:24] <jbailey> I think what I'll probably do for this upload is make it one large source package of just the directories that I care about (ubuntu, kubuntu if I can get the KDE stuff to build)
[04:24] <jsgotangco> because at the moment, its one big lump
[04:25] <jsgotangco> of interconnected cruft
[04:25] <jbailey> Ugh.  When are you planning on doing that?
[04:25] <jbailey> If it's reasonable to wait until bzr has a decent centralised model, you are probably best to do that.
[04:25] <jsgotangco> there is no date yet
[04:25] <jbailey> If you're not familiar with baz, it's possibly not worth learning all the nuiances.
[04:26] <jsgotangco> well its actually acceptable to just go bzr we'll just have to clean up the current svn for now
[04:26] <jbailey> I really enjoy using bzr, but the centralised model isn't in yet.
[04:26] <jsgotangco> svn actually works for us at the moment
[04:26] <jbailey> Right, and cleaning up svn is easy enoug.
[04:26] <jsgotangco> (the bigger issue is having people stay and contribute)
[04:27] <jbailey> What I would do is probably svn mv it all to a branch point called '/branches/old_cruft', and copy bits into where you want it to be, and fix the links up as a single changeset.
[04:27] <jbailey> Probably take one or two people working together about a day to do and then it's out of your way.
[04:28] <jsgotangco> what sean did before after warty was branch to a new set then merged to trunk
[04:29] <jbailey> Either is fine.  I like moving all the cruft out of the way and starting with a clean slate just moving in what I want, so that I'm cherrypicking in, not decrufting out.
[04:30] <jbailey> The nice part is that you always have the history to go back to if you forget something.
[04:30] <jbailey> And if you forget something and don't notice... Who cares? =)
[04:30] <jsgotangco> hmm ok i'll put that in todo after everything is settled down
[04:30] <jbailey> Sure.
[04:30] <jbailey> I suspect that I'll probably be available to help you guys and such after too.
[04:30] <jsgotangco> rad
[04:31] <jsgotangco> i'll lurk for a while its morning here so just ping me just in case thanks
[04:31] <jbailey> I tend to silently watch the docteam meetings in #ubuntu-meeting anyway.. =)
[04:31] <jbailey> 'kay, will do.
[04:31] <jbailey> I'm just finishing up some glibc testing before I start the serious work.
[04:31] <jbailey> It's mostly been just poking around and such in the meantime.
[04:31] <jbailey> But this upload is a before-I-sleep-tonight task.
[04:57] <rob^> hmm whats going on with the make files in svn at the moment?
[04:59] <rob^> in fact, whats going on with svn in general?
[05:04] <jsgotangco> mmm?
[05:05] <rob^> warning: failed to load external entity "/usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/html/profile-chunk.xsl"
[05:05] <rob^> compilation error: file libs/gnome-ubuntu.xsl line 5 element import
[05:05] <rob^> xsl:import : unable to load /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/html/profile-chunk.xsl
[05:05] <rob^> make: *** [faqi386]  Error 5
[05:05] <rob^> when doing "make faqi386"
[05:07] <jsgotangco> where do you do a make?
[05:07] <rob^> gnome/
[05:08] <jsgotangco> hmm do you have docbook-xsl?
[05:09] <rob^> hmm let me check..
[05:09] <rob^> nope
[05:10] <rob^> ok, it seems to be working now :)
[05:10] <rob^> thanks
[05:10] <jsgotangco> np
[05:26] <Burgundavia> wow, the trailer for Aeonflux looks terrible
[05:27] <Madpilot> the trailer for what?
[05:27] <jsgotangco> on totem?
[05:27] <jsgotangco> or the trailer itself?
[05:27] <Burgundavia> Aeonflux
[05:28] <jsgotangco> i didnt like aeonflux in the first place
[05:28] <Burgundavia> http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/paramount/aeon_flux/
[05:28] <jsgotangco> a life action film?
[05:28] <Burgundavia> ya
[05:29] <Burgundavia> with Charlize Theron
[05:29] <jsgotangco> hmm i should watch that
[05:30] <Madpilot> looks missable, really...
[05:30] <jsgotangco> no i'll just watch charlize
[05:30] <Madpilot> yah, OK, she's decorative, at least
[05:30] <jsgotangco> hmm she looks terrible with that hair
[05:31] <Madpilot> you were watching her hair? :)
[05:31] <jsgotangco> and that's no aeon flux costume :)
[05:32] <Madpilot> is the an anime or something that Hollywood's got their paws on?
[05:33] <jsgotangco> its not really anime
[05:33] <jsgotangco> more of like anime-inspired
[05:33] <jsgotangco> aeon flux is relatively old
[05:33] <rob^> to put the revhistory on another page, do we just change the templates/makefile?
[05:34] <jsgotangco> and the main character was always in compromising positions
[05:34] <Madpilot> as opposed to compromising costumes?
[05:35] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, that as well :)
[05:41] <rob^> Burgundavia, ping
[05:43] <Burgundavia> rob^, pong
[05:43] <rob^> hi
[05:43] <Burgundavia> you need an ATI section written for the FAQ guide?
[05:43] <rob^> Madpilot told my you own an ATI graphics card
[05:43] <rob^> yeah, I was about to add the instructions from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverHowto/ATI
[05:44] <rob^> I cant check if they work though
[05:44] <Burgundavia> they do
[05:44] <rob^> in Breezy at least
[05:44] <Madpilot> yeah, but I don't run Breezy...
[05:45] <rob^> ok, well I'll add it, let me know if you have any problems
[05:45] <rob^> thanks
[05:45] <Burgundavia> I can check what you write
[05:45] <rob^> cool, ok
[05:46] <Burgundavia> the most common trip up is the Option "UseInternalAGPGART" "no" addition that is needed
[05:54] <rob^> is that option in there by default or do you need to add the whole thing?
[05:54] <Burgundavia> no
[05:55] <Madpilot> I think that option is only relevant to those (like me) who run NForce2 mobos still
[05:55] <rob^> do you add it in: Section "Device"
[05:57] <Burgundavia> that is only needed for certain chipsets
[05:57] <Burgundavia> primarily the nforce2, probably the most common budget chipset
[05:57] <Madpilot> Section "Device"
[05:57] <Madpilot> 	Identifier	"ATI Technologies, Inc. Radeon 9600 XT (RV350 AR)"
[05:57] <Madpilot> 	Driver		"fglrx"
[05:57] <Madpilot> 	BusID		"PCI:3:0:0"
[05:57] <Madpilot> 	Option		"UseInternalAGPGART" "no"
[05:57] <Madpilot> EndSection
[05:57] <Madpilot> sorry for the dump, but that's where the internalAGPGART line fits
[05:59] <Madpilot> hmmm... and I just realized that PCI bit on the BusID line - shouldn't that be AGP something?
[05:59] <rob^> thanks
[06:11] <rob^> when making the faq guide I'm getting a lot of this:
[06:12] <rob^> The shade.verbatim parameter is deprecated. Use CSS instead,
[06:12] <rob^> for example: pre.screen { background-color: #E0E0E0; }
[06:12] <rob^> whats going on there?
[06:12] <jsgotangco> are you in hoary?
[06:12] <rob^> no, Breezy
[06:13] <jsgotangco> hmmm it probably has a new xsl version?
[06:13] <rob^> I also noticed that <screen> tags are not shading the background like they used to
[06:13] <jsgotangco> yelp rendering is quite different as well in breezy
[06:14] <rob^> yeah
[06:14] <jsgotangco> (still slow though)
[06:14] <rob^> I'm just viewing this through ff though
[06:15] <jsgotangco> i guess the make needs to be updated post-breezy
[06:15] <rob^> yeah
[06:16] <jsgotangco> jbailey is willing to help us clean out the svn after all the chaos to make things much easier for us
[06:16] <jsgotangco> packaging-wise as well
[06:16] <rob^> looking forward to it
[06:16] <jsgotangco> so most probably we'll branch the old stuff
[06:17] <jsgotangco> instead of them staying stagnant in trunk
[06:19] <jeffsch> rob^: you want to move the rev history?
[06:19] <jeffsch> np
[06:19] <rob^> yep, so it doesn't appear on the front page
[06:19] <rob^> thanks
[06:20] <jeffsch> it is an entity. see faqguide.xml, and move &revhistory; to wherever you want
[06:20] <rob^> yeah I was thinking that
[06:21] <jsgotangco> ughhh the docbook xml by OOo 2 is ugly
[06:22] <jeffsch> does anyone else think that the faqguide style could use some improvement?
[06:22] <jeffsch> i'm talking about fonts, colours, etc
[06:22] <rob^> jeffsch, yess
[06:22] <Burgundavia> yelp in breezy is now using gecko
[06:22] <rob^> I'm addressing one of the issues in the patch I just sent to the list
[06:24] <jeffsch> i'm thinking a sans serif font would be better
[06:24] <jeffsch> and better spacing between Q's and A's
[06:24] <jeffsch> and ubuntu colour scheme
[06:24] <rob^> yeah, I would agree with that jeffsch
[06:24] <jsgotangco> yeah
[06:24] <jsgotangco> would an inline css work?
[06:25] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, jeffsch shall I apply those patches?
[06:25] <jeffsch> Burgundavia: go for it
[06:25] <jsgotangco> i haven't seen my email feel free to do so if its valid
[06:25] <jeffsch> patch <diff_file
[06:26] <jeffsch> simpler than patch -p0 blah blah blah
[06:26] <rob^> man I really need a new password..
[06:26] <jsgotangco> jeffsch, i'm going to add a simple docbook chapter on the styleguide soon
[06:26] <jsgotangco> jeffsch, eventually the styleguide can be our handbook
[06:26] <jeffsch> jsgotangco: wait until after release...
[06:26] <jsgotangco> yep
[06:27] <jsgotangco> we have time
[06:27] <jeffsch> we also need a "how to write procedures" part in the style guide
[06:27] <jeffsch> but all in good time
[06:28] <jsgotangco> you mean step by step procedures?
[06:28] <jeffsch> yeah
[06:28] <Burgundavia> rob^, which global.ent are you applying this against?
[06:28] <Burgundavia> rob^, the one in generic/libs?
[06:28] <rob^> no
[06:28] <rob^> libs/
[06:28] <jsgotangco> im just looking at random entries in the gdp handbook
[06:29] <jeffsch> gadzooks! there's more than one global.ent?
[06:29] <rob^> yeah
[06:29] <rob^> its a mess
[06:29] <jsgotangco> wow
[06:29] <jsgotangco> where is the other one?
[06:29] <rob^> generic/libs/
[06:30] <jsgotangco> err isn't that the real global.ent?
[06:30] <rob^> will all the links are in the former
[06:30] <rob^> well*
[06:30] <jsgotangco> err wait a minute
[06:31] <rob^> they have always been
[06:31] <Burgundavia> can we just merge them?
[06:31] <jsgotangco> there's only one global.ent
[06:31] <jsgotangco> the one in generic/libs is generic.ent
[06:31] <rob^> not in our svn
[06:32] <jsgotangco> are you certain
[06:32] <jsgotangco> i only have one global.ent
[06:32] <rob^> oops, one is global
[06:32] <jsgotangco> err wait
[06:32] <jsgotangco> we do have 2 global.ent
[06:32] <jeffsch> whew! I have only one globa.ent as well
[06:32] <jsgotangco> but the other one is in learnlinux
[06:32] <Madpilot> I'm showing two here, fwiw
[06:32] <rob^> there is libs/global.ent and generic/libs/generic.ent
[06:32] <jsgotangco> the other global.ent isnt really used
[06:33] <rob^> both serve the same purpose
[06:33] <Madpilot> one in /libs and one in /generic/learnlinux/C
[06:33] <rob^> but we only need one
[06:33] <rob^> oh shit, theres three?
[06:33] <jsgotangco> the other one isn't used really
[06:33] <jsgotangco> it just came in after the merge
[06:34] <jsgotangco> but generic.ent should be merged with only the real global.ent
[06:34] <jsgotangco> ackk more housekeeping...
[06:34] <jsgotangco> brb
[06:34] <rob^> ok
[06:35] <jeffsch> but don't merge yet... we don't know what will break if we do
[06:35] <jsgotangco> yes
[06:35] <jsgotangco> after wards
[06:39] <jeffsch> ok, this weekend i'm gonna try building a style into the xslt customization layer for the faqguide
[06:39] <jeffsch> the style will be based on the quick tour style
[06:40] <rob^> sounds intresting
[06:40] <rob^> bbs
[06:40] <Burgundavia> cool
[06:40] <jeffsch> if it works :)
[06:40] <Madpilot> cool. I may have started something with the styling of that quick tour...
[06:41] <Madpilot> yes, you must. It is supposed to be your pet project, after all... :)
[06:53] <jbailey> The generated index.html referes to aboutubuntu.css
[06:53] <jbailey> hmm
[06:53] <jbailey> Ah, under gnome/libs
[06:53] <jbailey> The Makefile doesn't install it.
[06:53] <jbailey> =)
[06:53] <Burgundavia> for the quicktour, I inlined the css, as it is designed to be distributed outside our controlled environment
[06:54] <Madpilot> embedded. inline CSS is slightly different

[06:54] <Burgundavia> ok
[06:55] <jbailey> Madpilot: What's the difference?
[06:55] <Madpilot> inline styles are right in each seperate tag. Text here is inline
[06:56] <Madpilot> embedded is the whole stylesheet stuck up in the header of the page
[06:56] <jsgotangco> embedded is declared at the top most of the document right?
[06:56] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: yes, like the quick tour
[06:56] <jbailey> Ah, thanks.
[06:57] <jsgotangco> embedded css is much more manageable then
[06:57] <Madpilot> much more so
[06:57] <jsgotangco> although nothing beats have a separate .css file
[06:57] <Madpilot> external stylesheets (standard "foo.css" stuff) are even better, esp. with more than one page...
[06:57] <jsgotangco> s/have/having
[06:57] <jbailey> How ought someone to get to the Release notes and stuff?  What should take them to that or the FAQ for their architecture?
[06:58] <jsgotangco> the release notes isn't updated at all
[06:58] <jbailey> It says 5.10 at the top, I'm happy for now. =)
[06:59] <jsgotangco> because it was only referenced from the external entity
[06:59] <jsgotangco> eh
[06:59] <jbailey> Ah, I see.
[06:59] <jbailey> This is intended to be the page that FireFox opens to by default.
[07:00] <jsgotangco> no that's About Ubuntu
[07:00] <jsgotangco> i believe the one in hoary was done by the artwork people
[07:01] <jbailey> Right, it's in the artwork package.
[07:01] <jbailey> Doens't much make sense to have it there, except to minimise the branding headache
[07:01] <jbailey> But anyone serious about branding will want to repalce ubuntu-docs anyway.
[07:02] <jeffsch> jbailey: re: aboutubuntu.css. do you need the makefile to copy it over? i can add it if you need it
[07:02] <jbailey> jeffsch: I'll hack around it in the package for now, but it would be good to have it in there.
[07:03] <jbailey> As I"m digging through this, I'm getting a clearer idea of the stuff that should be in common.
[07:03] <jeffsch> ok, i can add it eventually, instead of immediately then
[07:03] <jbailey> I haven't looked at how the style sheets are broken out, though.  They appear to be single style sheets per thing, rather than a common 'ubuntu' look, and then per-page love.
[07:03] <jbailey> The directories are also a bit tossed up by the looks of it.
[07:03] <jeffsch> it's a mess, no doubt
[07:04] <jbailey> Ahaha, funny.  The faqi386 refers to an image on the web.
[07:05] <Madpilot> jbailey: you mean the img link is a full URL, not local? ouch
[07:05] <jeffsch> jbailey: where? the "draft" background is on the web, but it will be coming off
[07:05] <jbailey> Right, for the draft background.
[07:05] <jbailey> jeffsch: Except that I'm uploading the package in hopefully aout 20 minutes =)
[07:05] <jsgotangco> yeah the funky draft image
[07:06] <jbailey> But so far it looks like the faqguides have the navigation locally and in the right plcae.
[07:06] <jbailey> So I just need to adjust aboutubuntu's expectations of life.
[07:08] <jbailey> Why was latin-1 chosen for the target character set?
[07:08] <jbailey> Was it to make lynx browsing easier for the C locale docs?
[07:11] <jeffsch> jbailey: to dump the draft image for your build, in libs/common-cust.xsl, change the line
[07:11] <jeffsch> <xsl:param name="draft.mode" select="'no'"/>
[07:11] <jeffsch> doh! spoke to soon... hold on a sec
[07:12] <jbailey> =)
[07:16] <jbailey> Ah, IconUbuntu.png just isn't installed.  Easy enough.
[07:16] <jbailey> So it seems like about-ubuntu's Makefile is just not complete for now.
[07:17] <jbailey> Easy enough to fix on the next pass.
[07:17] <jbailey> But I'm still curious how the user is supposed to find these docs...
[07:18] <rob^> what do you mean?
[07:18] <jbailey> Well, there's a set of faqs and the 'about Ubuntu' page.
[07:18] <jbailey> I can register them with doc-base.
[07:19] <jbailey> But I suspect that the type of user who can figure out using things that know about doc base probably isn't looking for our FAQ.
[07:19] <rob^> the faq guide should pop up when people hit yelp
[07:19] <jbailey> Ah, okay.
[07:19] <jsgotangco> well not just the faqguide
[07:20] <rob^> yes, we need to do something that also links to the other doc or two we are including also
[07:20] <rob^> what are we releasing with ubuntu again?
[07:20] <jbailey> Right, so when I hit that lifesaver thing, I see right now that it says "Guide express Ubuntu".
[07:20] <Burgundavia> rob^, faqguide and quicktour
[07:20] <jbailey> So that link should be repointed I guess.
[07:20] <jsgotangco> we'll probably still end up with the existing yelp front page and chunk the others
[07:20] <rob^> Burgundavia, thanks
[07:22] <rob^> either we can have something like we have now with just two links (one for the faq guide, one for the quick tour), or we can just have the faq guide appear and place a link in it to the quicktour
[07:22] <jeffsch> jbailey: the file is gnome/libs/common-cust.xsl
[07:22] <jeffsch> change <xsl:param name="draft.mode" select="'yes'"/> to a 'no'
[07:22] <jbailey> Cool, thanks.
[07:22] <jsgotangco> how will the faqguide be included if its profiled? in html?
[07:22] <jeffsch> we have two common-cust.xsl files :(
[07:23] <rob^> yes, html it was decided
[07:23] <rob^> unless of cause the xml is appering properly, then we can review the decision
[07:23] <jsgotangco> it probably wont
[07:23] <rob^> yeah
[07:25] <rob^> when is the document writing cutoff again?
[07:26] <jsgotangco> 8
[07:26] <rob^> ah
[07:26] <jsgotangco> we're going to include some docs for preview release
[07:26] <rob^> yeah, I was hoping that
[07:26] <jbailey> Artwork deadline is the 24th.
[07:26] <jbailey> Is there a documentation freeze?
[07:26] <rob^> by some docs, you mean the faq guide and quickguide?
[07:27] <jsgotangco> jbailey, sept. 8
[07:27] <jbailey> What I had talked about with mdz is that I want to get a weekly snapshot going from the docteam into the repository so that there isn't this mad rush next time
[07:27] <rob^> or quicktour even
[07:27] <jsgotangco> jbailey, that should be the cawse
[07:27] <rob^> jbailey, yes, thats a good idea
[07:27] <jsgotangco> jbailey, the problem was that documents arent properly spec'ed to begin with
[07:27] <jsgotangco> so there is always a mad rush in the end
[07:28] <jsgotangco> so docs should have milestone goals as well
[07:28] <rob^> for next release it should be better
[07:28] <jbailey> Sure, it'll always get better.
[07:28] <jsgotangco> even if it just contains TODO in the milestones
[07:28] <jbailey> That's the great part about experience. =)
[07:28] <rob^> heh ype
[07:28] <rob^> yep
[07:28] <jbailey> Well, and I suspect that there are some components of the specs that should have documentation as part of their completion tasks.
[07:28] <jeffsch> a weekly snapshot may force us to keep a decently organized svn repos!
[07:28] <jsgotangco> yes
[07:28] <jbailey> If the docs are being updated as it goes, and those have to be pushed into the framework, it'll make it easier to push it.
[07:29] <jbailey> This quickguide isn't in the svn, is it?
[07:29] <jbailey> Oh, I see it - under gnome.
[07:29] <Burgundavia> jbailey, the quicktour just hit
[07:29] <rob^> yeah, it kind of reformed into the quick tour
[07:30] <jbailey> So which one should I grab?
[07:30] <Burgundavia> quicktour
[07:30] <jbailey> But it's 01h30 and this is between me and bed.
[07:30] <jbailey> ;)
[07:31] <rob^> heh watch you get no sleep because of it..
[07:32] <jbailey> At this point, I'm just dropping the docs into place.
[07:32] <jbailey> I'll get yelp to use them and such tomorrow.
[07:59] <jbailey> Uploading.
[07:59] <rob^> cool
[07:59] <jbailey> And with that, I think it's bedtime.
[07:59] <Burgundavia> jbailey, thanks!
[08:00] <jbailey> I'll nudge elmo about the svn access so that I can help you guys with thecleanup stuff.
[08:00] <Burgundavia> jbailey, cool
[08:00] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, you want to nudge elmo for commit access, it is fine with me
[08:00] <Madpilot> eventually
[08:00] <Madpilot> don't even have a PGP key generated yet
[08:01] <rob^> Madpilot, once you get used to Docbook a bit more
[08:01] <rob^> then get it
[08:01] <Madpilot> once I use Docbook at all, you mean!
[08:01] <rob^> submit some patches to the list
[08:01] <rob^> yeah, without knowing docbook its kind of useless having commit access
[08:01] <Burgundavia> not really
[08:01] <Burgundavia> the quicktour is html
[08:01] <Burgundavia> and will stay that way
[08:01] <rob^> why?
[08:01] <Madpilot> I've been meaning to get some sort of handle on XML, so this is as good a reason as any
[08:02] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, its fun
[08:02] <rob^> when we can't generate anything from it
[08:02] <Burgundavia> because there is no reason to make it docbook
[08:02] <rob^> eg pdf
[08:02] <Burgundavia> you can do pdf from html
[08:02] <jsgotangco> yes
[08:02] <Burgundavia> I think we can also do pot/po from it
[08:03] <rob^> ah ok, still..
[08:03] <jsgotangco> the gnome people have a better way on doing this stuff
[08:03] <jsgotangco> (seen on the marketing list)
[08:03] <Burgundavia> oh?
[08:03] <jsgotangco> have you seen luis' email on the 2.12 release notes
[08:04] <Burgundavia> yes, but mostly passed it by
[08:04] <jsgotangco> well its now up for translation they gave a 7-day window
[08:04] <Burgundavia> ah
[08:09] <jsgotangco> Liz, aren't you always ;)
[08:10] <jsgotangco> hmm lots of branching are happening on the gnome-doc list lately
[08:12] <rob^> how come?
[08:12] <Burgundavia> all the branching for the new release must be announced to the -doc list
[08:12] <rob^> oh
[08:12] <rob^> I don't follow that list
[08:13] <Burgundavia> as with any string changes after a certain point
[08:13] <jsgotangco> i'm trying to learn their process
[08:13] <rob^> to suggest it for us?
[08:13] <Burgundavia> they don't have one
[08:13] <jsgotangco> seems so
[08:13] <jsgotangco> fedora has a better structure
[08:14] <jsgotangco> but the people here might find it too strict
[08:14] <Burgundavia> red hat pays people to do docs
[08:14] <Burgundavia> hence they have structure
[08:14] <jsgotangco> yes my point exactly
[08:14] <rob^> heh
[08:14] <jsgotangco> i was about to end that
[08:15] <jsgotangco> i'll just ask questions about our performance after the chaos
[08:16] <rob^> oh?
[08:16] <jsgotangco> care to share it to the rest
[08:16] <Burgundavia> most of them involve us writing less docs
[08:16] <Burgundavia> a lot less
[08:16] <rob^> ok, but can I just say to you please discuss it first
[08:16] <jsgotangco> well we already have a good base
[08:16] <Burgundavia> rob^, absolutely
[08:16] <rob^> :)
[08:16] <rob^> good
[08:17] <Burgundavia> rob^, things are percolating through my brain. I intend to put out an RFC after string freeze
[08:17] <rob^> an RFC?
[08:17] <Burgundavia> Request for Comments
[08:17] <jsgotangco> RFCs give structure
[08:17] <jsgotangco> heh
[08:17] <jsgotangco> :)
[08:17] <rob^> yeah, I know what it means
[08:17] <Liz> jsgotangco, not always..but right now..im off to tyhe video shop
[08:17] <Liz> nothing on tv tonight
[08:17] <Liz> :)
[08:18] <Liz> and i wander in here now and then...this is the most anyones said in it when ive been here
[08:18] <Burgundavia> we are getting busier, closer to release
[08:18] <rob^> I think we should just have a meeting and try to get as many people at it as possible after breezy is released, then forward to the mailing list for final discussion
[08:18] <rob^> about our direction post-breezy
[08:18] <Burgundavia> yes
[08:18] <ajmitch> for those that can make it, UBZ
[08:19] <jsgotangco> yes
[08:19] <Burgundavia> how many can we ship to UBZ?
[08:19] <rob^> hence, mailing list
[08:19] <jsgotangco> how many?
[08:19] <jsgotangco> people?
[08:19] <Burgundavia> ya
[08:19] <jsgotangco> jbailey is there so its a given that he'll be involved more
[08:19] <Burgundavia> I really want you and rob there, but I don't know if it is possible
[08:19] <rob^> is that the next ubuntu conference?
[08:20] <Burgundavia> yes, in Montreal, Canada
[08:20] <jsgotangco> else i can start swimming this weekend
[08:20] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: you start, I'll catch up
[08:20] <Burgundavia> rob^,  you applied for funding yet?
[08:20] <rob^> hmm.. how?
[08:20] <rob^> I'd love to be there if I could get funding
[08:20] <jsgotangco> sure
[08:20] <jsgotangco> its in the wiki
[08:20] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/Attendees  <-- rob^
[08:20] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/Attendees
[08:20] <jsgotangco> i got funded before in sydney so did ajmitch
[08:20] <Burgundavia> yes
[08:21] <Burgundavia> the doc team really needs a high-bandwidth meeting
[08:21] <jsgotangco> except that what happened is that i was the only active docteam member there
[08:21] <Burgundavia> yes
[08:21] <rob^> its a shame I missed that
[08:21] <Burgundavia> UBZ might end up the same way
[08:22] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, if we get at least 2, we're set
[08:22] <Burgundavia> where is matt east?
[08:22] <jsgotangco> our favorite barrister is moving at the moment
[08:22] <Burgundavia> and matt galvin?
[08:23] <jsgotangco> no idea he comes in lately but quite busy at work
[08:23] <Burgundavia> damn'
[08:23] <Burgundavia> anyone seen Troy Williams in a while?
[08:23] <jsgotangco> our team is less than the fingers in one hand
[08:23] <jsgotangco> (active-wise that is)
[08:23] <Burgundavia> yes
[08:24] <Burgundavia> jerome, me, rob^, jjesse in svn
[08:24] <Burgundavia> mgalvin and mdke appear to be awol currently, unforunately
[08:24] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, you only committed lately :) hehehe
[08:24] <Burgundavia> and sean seems to have left us permently
[08:25] <jsgotangco> but im not saying that against you :)
[08:25] <jsgotangco> its all good
[08:25] <Burgundavia> ok, odd titles -->  "US places curbs on Chinese bras"
[08:25] <jsgotangco> oh he still follows the list
[08:25] <Burgundavia> yes, but no commits and he is not in here
[08:26] <ajmitch> except that MOTU time seems to take quite a bit of my week
[08:26] <Burgundavia> the quiet time before we can really start writing should be taken up with speccing this time, instead of nothing
[08:26] <jsgotangco> well we had our lessons for Breezy
[08:26] <rob^> is the funding for just travel or does it include accomm and meals?
[08:26] <jsgotangco> half of the time we were talking about infrastructure
[08:26] <Burgundavia> rob^, travel and accom
[08:26] <Burgundavia> rob^, usually some meals
[08:26] <jsgotangco> rob^, full meals
[08:27] <ajmitch> we had meals paid for at UDU
[08:27] <Burgundavia> oh?
[08:27] <jsgotangco> yes
[08:27] <Burgundavia> Mataro was dinner on our own
[08:27] <jsgotangco> except during UDU we had to wait for dinner
[08:27] <ajmitch> & wait
[08:27] <jsgotangco> and everyone of us are hungry
[08:27] <ajmitch> & then complain about the food :)
[08:27] <Burgundavia> but at Mataro we had "Bags of death"
[08:27] <Burgundavia> for lunch
[08:27] <jsgotangco> UDU was fun, food wise
[08:27] <jsgotangco> they made sure we were caffeinnated
[08:27] <ajmitch> oh yes
[08:28] <ajmitch> we needed it though
[08:28] <Burgundavia> mataro had lots of juice, but the meals sucked
[08:28] <jsgotangco> not to mention the mentos
[08:28] <jsgotangco> time flies so fast it seems just a few days ago
[08:28] <ajmitch> all-week sugar high
[08:28] <Burgundavia> UDU sounded crazy
[08:28] <jsgotangco> it was
[08:28] <jsgotangco> we went to a movie
[08:29] <Burgundavia> Mataro was much more relaxed. We had hack sessions in the afternoon
[08:29] <Burgundavia> as it was also a lp sprint
[08:29] <ajmitch> we had everything (~200 specs) in 1 week at UDU
[08:29] <jsgotangco> although the venue wasn't really that good for brain dumping
[08:29] <jsgotangco> the hotel was flowing with chinese tourists
[08:29] <ajmitch> no hack sessions scheduled
[08:30] <jsgotangco> and because we had shitty wireless then
[08:30] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: nah, it is limited
[08:30] <ajmitch> time for breezy live test
[08:30] <jsgotangco> good luck
[08:39] <rob^> hey, according to http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/visas.html  Australians don't need a Visa to visit Canada, is that right?
[08:39] <Burgundavia> rob^, yes
[08:39] <rob^> nice..
[08:40] <Burgundavia> rob^, most major "western" nations don't need visas for visiting people from other major "wester" nations
[08:40] <rob^> I guess I should submit my passport paperwork that I filled out and forgot to submit..
[08:40] <Burgundavia> yes
[08:43] <rob^> my passport is being paid for by the people I work for anyway
[08:43] <jsgotangco> oh you have a government passport
[08:43] <Madpilot> bonus
[08:43] <rob^> yep
[08:43] <jsgotangco> but you can't use that for non-official work
[08:43] <Burgundavia> is generic/instalguide/C the current location of the install guide
[08:43] <Burgundavia> ?
[08:43] <rob^> the type of one I am getting I can
[08:43] <jsgotangco> government passports are supposed to be with a corresponding work order/stuff
[08:44] <jsgotangco> ahh
[08:46] <jsgotangco> i can always go to LCA anyways
[08:46] <rob^> thats in nz..
[08:47] <jsgotangco> yes
[08:47] <rob^> I still wonder why they did that
[08:47] <ajmitch> the *other* australian state :)
[08:47] <rob^> yeah..
[08:47] <rob^> heh
[08:47] <ajmitch> because mike beattie & his team put in a submission
[08:47] <rob^> yeah I know
[08:47] <ajmitch> so LCA in Dunedin, NZ
[08:48] <jsgotangco> are you still in otago u?
[08:49] <ajmitch> I'm still in Dunedin, but working
[08:49] <rob^> there is some more patches
[08:50] <rob^> are*
[08:51] <Burgundavia> rob^, got them
[08:52] <rob^> cool
[08:55] <jsgotangco> oh you got it already
[08:55] <jsgotangco> i was over the phone
[08:55] <Burgundavia> rob^, can we just can bum?
[08:56] <Burgundavia> rob^, it is also in Breezy universe
[08:56] <rob^> can what?
[08:56] <Burgundavia> bootup manager
[08:56] <jsgotangco> bum? no way
[08:56] <rob^> yeah, I thought I did?
[08:56] <Burgundavia> you commented it out
[08:56] <Burgundavia> services-admin now exists in Breezy, so bum is unneeded
[08:56] <rob^> hmm
[08:56] <rob^> I did remove it, but must have forgot to upload the change
[08:57] <rob^> yeah can it
[08:57] <Burgundavia> ok, I will remove it
[08:58] <Burgundavia> I am also thinking of going for cowbell instead of easytag
[08:58] <Burgundavia> what about dropping goobox?
[08:58] <rob^> is it any good?
[08:58] <Burgundavia> sj is installed by default
[08:59] <rob^> change it
[08:59] <Burgundavia> cowbell is much much simpler to use
[08:59] <rob^> if you think so then, I just download my mp3s..
[08:59] <jsgotangco> wtf are those apps
[08:59] <rob^> I mean.. umm
[08:59] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: CD rippers
[08:59] <jsgotangco> are they in universe?
[08:59] <Burgundavia> SJ is installed by default
[09:00] <Burgundavia> goobox is in universe
[09:00] <jsgotangco> i know SJ
[09:00] <Madpilot> cowbell doesn't seem to be in Hoary repos; goobox is
[09:00] <jsgotangco> no idea about a goobox or a cowbell
[09:00] <rob^> neither
[09:00] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, cowbell is a brandnew mono app
[09:00] <rob^> I dont care, much of a muchness really, they both do the job
[09:00] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: cool
[09:01] <Burgundavia> ok, I wil kill goobox then
[09:02] <Burgundavia> hmm, looks like you did remove bum
[09:02] <rob^> yeah I thought so
[09:03] <Burgundavia> looks like SVN messed up the diff again
[09:05] <rob^> where should we move the revhistory?
[09:05] <rob^> I'm not sure..
[09:05] <rob^> on its own page?
[09:06] <Madpilot> its own page at the end of the ToC? (revhist is mostly an internal thing, I'm thinking...)
[09:07] <rob^> I would kind of rather have a link near the top..
[09:08] <jsgotangco> hey look at sean's reply
[09:09] <rob^> ?
[09:13] <rob^> hey, he has reappeared
[09:13] <jsgotangco> and he said we
[09:13] <rob^> us!
[09:13] <jsgotangco> i mean us
[09:13] <Burgundavia> rob^, should I move firestarter to system tools?
[09:14] <rob^> heh yeah firestarter is one of those funny apps that belongs in several places
[09:14] <rob^> I think networking or security is a better place
[09:15] <rob^> as in Networking Utilities, not chapter 7
[09:16] <Burgundavia> rob^, what about just leaving it in Security?
[09:16] <rob^> yeah, I think its in there twice actually
[09:16] <Burgundavia> I added it there earlier
[09:18] <Liz> "ajmitch the *other* australian state :)"...over this kiwis dead body only :P
[09:19] <Madpilot> NZ? which province of Australia is that in, again? ;)
[09:20] <jsgotangco> its the bigger part of tasmania!
[09:20] <rob^> hahaha
[09:20] <Madpilot> and anyone asking which state of the US Canada is in had better hide *before* asking, OK? :P
[09:21] <HrdwrBoB> um
[09:21] <HrdwrBoB> canada is quite bg though
[09:21] <HrdwrBoB> big
[09:21] <HrdwrBoB> NZ is smaller than AU and very similar in many ways
[09:22] <jsgotangco> hans island is denmark!!!
[09:22] <Madpilot> more orcs & sheep in NZ, though
[09:22] <jsgotangco> orcs
[09:22] <jsgotangco> ah
[09:22] <HrdwrBoB> no, there's more sheep in AU
[09:22] <Madpilot> what, you mean LotR wasn't a documentary?
[09:23] <HrdwrBoB> In 1998 there were just under 120 million sheep in Australia
[09:24] <Madpilot> did you just google for sheep number, HrdwrBoB? :P
[09:24] <Madpilot> *numbers, even...
[09:24] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[09:24] <HrdwrBoB> with google at my side, there's not much I don't know
[09:25] <Madpilot> true enough. why remember when you can google? (guilty here too...)
[09:25] <HrdwrBoB> I remember lots of things
[09:25] <HrdwrBoB> I know lots of things
[09:26] <HrdwrBoB> the amount of sheep in australia I don't consider an important enough fact to keep in my head
[09:26] <Madpilot> anyway, I need sleep. good night, all. have fun with the docs.
[09:26] <jsgotangco> haha
[09:26] <jsgotangco> i was reading the silmarillion last night
[09:27] <Madpilot> Liz: no, I'm not *from* NZ or Oz, I don't think of sheep in *that* way!
[09:27] <jsgotangco> the movie just ruined my imaginataion
[09:27] <Liz> :P
[09:27] <Liz> ntie Madpilot
[09:27] <jsgotangco> when i read of elves, i begin to visualize orlando bloom urrkk
[09:27] <rob^> bbl dinner time
[09:28] <HrdwrBoB> \o/ next week I will get my laptop battery and hard drive
[09:28] <Burgundavia> rob^, oh crap, I just changed faqguide.xml
[09:29] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, should i patch this or i wait for your change
[09:29] <jsgotangco> oh
[09:29] <Burgundavia> let me try and apply them
[09:29] <jsgotangco> okay
[09:29] <jsgotangco> i'll just do my changes later
[09:29] <jsgotangco> when im sure you're asleep ;)
[09:31] <Burgundavia> ok, that is done
[09:31] <Burgundavia> ah crap
[09:31] <Burgundavia> now it doesn't validate
[09:32] <Burgundavia> rob^, can you look at your preface patch again please?
[09:34] <jsgotangco> hey ubuntu-docs is uploded
[09:36] <jsgotangco> hmm seems it didn't do anything just deleted the old stuff
[09:36] <jsgotangco> the old quickguide is still there
[09:36] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:36] <jsgotangco> i guess jbailey tested it first
[09:36] <Burgundavia> maybe it should conflict with the old docs?
[09:36] <ippiraman> test
[09:37] <ippiraman> finally
[09:37] <Burgundavia> salut ippiraman
[09:37] <ippiraman> hello all
[09:37] <jsgotangco> jbailey's log shows that it has all the docs
[09:37] <ippiraman> i've been digging through the documentation
[09:37] <jsgotangco> but they didnt show
[09:37] <jsgotangco> i guess the omf files need updating
[09:37] <ippiraman> are there any plans to utilize the unofficial guides/faq?
[09:38] <Burgundavia> ippiraman, we already do
[09:38] <jsgotangco> ippiraman, we already have the ubuntu guide
[09:38] <ippiraman> great!
[09:38] <Burgundavia> ippiraman, the faqguide is based on ubuntguide.org
[09:38] <ippiraman> i'd like to see more docs on kubuntu
[09:38] <ippiraman> maybe i could help
[09:38] <Burgundavia> the kubuntu team needs some help
[09:38] <Burgundavia> not hard to start
[09:38] <jsgotangco> great we really lack kubuntu people
[09:39] <ippiraman> i use kubuntu on my deskop and laptop. and i already signed up at the LaptopTestingTeam
[09:39] <ippiraman> maybe jsgotangco could point me where to start. i'm from the philippines too!
[09:40] <jsgotangco> i see
[09:40] <jsgotangco> you should go to linuxworld and go to my talk
[09:41] <ippiraman> that would be hard for me. i'm based in bicol and have a regular job here (not IT related)
[09:41] <jsgotangco> at least you have a job heh
[09:41] <ippiraman> although i'm planning to attend the Software Freedom Day
[09:41] <jsgotangco> in Manila?
[09:41] <ippiraman> yes in PUP
[09:41] <jsgotangco> oh ok just grab me just in case
[09:42] <ippiraman> if i can't make it. We'd probably celebrate it here also. I maintain two internet shops and I'll be giving away ubuntu cd's
[09:42] <jsgotangco> nice
[09:42] <Burgundavia> rob^, you there?
[09:43] <ippiraman> we're really short with open source advocates here in bicol
[09:43] <Liz> its all good ajmitch
[09:43] <jsgotangco> ippiraman, what do you want to do with kubuntu
[09:43] <jsgotangco> ippiraman, at the moment, jjesse and me are doing some stuff
[09:43] <ippiraman> now i do the laptoptesting
[09:43] <jsgotangco> but my involvement with kubuntu is quite limited at the moment
[09:43] <ajmitch> Liz: don't worry, I've lived in NZ all my life :)
[09:44] <ippiraman> i see. i'm hoping someone would point me where to start
[09:45] <jsgotangco> ippiraman, errrmmm
[09:45] <jsgotangco> doc.ubuntu.com
[09:46] <ippiraman> i just want to clarify if the docs will be released with the release of breezy?
[09:46] <jsgotangco> ippiraman, what docs we already have uploaded some docs today
[09:46] <jsgotangco> we can't add anything more now
[09:47] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, yes we can
[09:47] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, have we sorted out how the profiling into html is going to happen?
[09:47] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, try my friend...its already Sept. 2
[09:47] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, yes
[09:47] <ajmitch> at best you could ship more docs in universe, I guess
[09:47] <jsgotangco> ajmitch, good idea
[09:48] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, if someone writes until they drop, they will make our goal of the 8th
[09:48] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, "if"
[09:48] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:48] <ajmitch> if you could convince ogra to let you ship new packages in universe :)
[09:48] <Burgundavia> bounties would require one of us to mentor them
[09:49] <jsgotangco> sure you're the senior at th emoment
[09:49] <ippiraman> and jerome could mentor me? :-)
[09:49] <Burgundavia> and bounties might end with people who are paid to write by the word
[09:49] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, no thanks
[09:49] <Burgundavia> can a docbook guru svn up and look at the validate error on the faqguide
[09:49] <jsgotangco> ippiraman, tell me what interests you and i can give you a good idea what you might be good for you
[09:49] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, hold on
[09:50] <jsgotangco> what does gnome-menus-C.ent contain?
[09:50] <Burgundavia> the lists of all the various xmls which point to menus
[09:51] <Burgundavia> so we can say &application and it shows the user where to find it
[09:51] <ajmitch> ideally a bounty is done when it's completed to the reviewer's satisfaction
[09:51] <Burgundavia> rob^, I had thought you had completely seperated out the faqguide into seperate docs
[09:51] <jsgotangco> ajmitch, i dont think a documentation bounty is necessary really
[09:51] <jsgotangco> we hvae too much documentation at the moment
[09:51] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: probably not
[09:52] <jsgotangco> it just needs cleaning
[09:52] <Burgundavia> to be honest, that money would be better spent on development
[09:52] <jsgotangco> gnome alone needs cleaning
[09:52] <Burgundavia> we have all kinds of old docs that we should do something with (I would throw them out)
[09:52] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: I'd gladly accept bounty money for development :)
[09:52] <ajmitch> as I'm sure many would
[09:52] <jsgotangco> hmm
[09:53] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, this is quite hard to locate
[09:53] <jsgotangco> what was the last document edited
[09:53] <Burgundavia> the edit was to the faqguide
[09:53] <jsgotangco> faqguide.xml?
[09:53] <ippiraman> do i need to update to breezy so it would reflect in the docs?
[09:53] <Burgundavia> it was robs one that played with the revhistory
[09:53] <jsgotangco> because you have a rougue sect1
[09:54] <jsgotangco> ippiraman, you don't have to update to breezy now just to work on docs
[09:54] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, it validated until I committed rob's stuff with some of my own
[09:54] <rob^> yeah, sorry back
[09:54] <rob^> was just having dinner
[09:55] <Burgundavia> likely 1688
[09:55] <Burgundavia> the faqguide patch
[09:55] <ippiraman> i rarely work with the gui for configuring.
[09:55] <jsgotangco> i dont see the problem with that doc
[09:55] <jsgotangco> hmm
[09:55] <rob^> whats going on?
[09:56] <Burgundavia> rob^, after I committed your patches with 2 of my changes, it doesn;t avlidate
[09:56] <ippiraman> and that goes to kynaptic. i've never updated using it.
[09:56] <jsgotangco> did 1687 validate?
[09:56] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:56] <rob^> hmm
[09:56] <jsgotangco> ippiraman, kynaptic will be replaced by adept
[09:56] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, did 1687 validate?
[09:56] <Burgundavia> rob^, did you see 1689?
[09:56] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, yes
[09:56] <ippiraman> adept <-- is a GUI?
[09:56] <jsgotangco> ippiraman, yes
[09:57] <Burgundavia> rob^, where I think I corrected a typo of yours
[09:57] <rob^> hmm
[09:57] <rob^> wasn't doing that before
[09:57] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, i believe your problem is prfeace.xml
[09:57] <jsgotangco> preface.xml
[09:57] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, that addition?>
[09:57] <jsgotangco> i tried validating every single doc
[09:57] <jsgotangco> that was changed
[09:58] <Burgundavia> yes, that is the change
[09:58] <Burgundavia> I just commented out the addition of the revhistory and it worked
[09:58] <jsgotangco> ok let me svn up again just to make sure
[09:59] <rob^> my first error is applications.xml:60: parser error : StartTag: invalid element name
[09:59] <rob^> <<<<<<< .mine
[09:59] <Burgundavia> should I commit that comment out so it validates?
[09:59] <Burgundavia> rob^, you have 1689
[10:00] <jsgotangco> try it i have no idea at the doc at the moment
[10:00] <jsgotangco> im just smart guessing
[10:00] <rob^> the preface one was 1680
[10:00] <Burgundavia> rob^, your latest patches are 1688
[10:00] <rob^> --- preface.xml (revision 1680)
[10:00] <rob^> +++ preface.xml (working copy)
[10:00] <rob^> I ment to say
[10:00] <jsgotangco> ippiraman, we're talking about commit versions so don't be confused :)
[10:01] <ippiraman> i'm not
[10:01] <ippiraman> :-)
[10:01] <rob^> 1688 is Added:
[10:01] <rob^>    trunk/gnome/menus/C/users.xml
[10:01] <rob^> Modified:
[10:01] <rob^>    trunk/generic/faqguide/C/faqguide.xml
[10:01] <rob^>    trunk/generic/faqguide/C/preface.xml
[10:01] <rob^>    trunk/gnome/libs/gnome-menus-C.ent
[10:01] <rob^> Log:
[10:01] <rob^> make my last thing work, and apply Robs patches
[10:02] <Burgundavia> I was committing from inside generic/faqguide, which is a dumb idea as it turns out
[10:02] <Burgundavia> up until 1689
[10:02] <rob^> I think it might have screwed something up
[10:02] <Burgundavia> does 1690 validate for everybody?
[10:03] <rob^> commenting out my additions to preface.xml doesn't change anything
[10:03] <jsgotangco> this validates
[10:03] <Burgundavia> rob^, hmm
[10:04] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, but 1690 now validates for you?
[10:04] <jsgotangco> it does
[10:04] <Burgundavia> ok
[10:04] <jsgotangco> hey jbailey packaged the whole thing in html
[10:04] <Burgundavia> that is what we want, after all
[10:05] <Burgundavia> rob^, what is not working for you?
[10:05] <jsgotangco> f/usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/HTML/en/about-ubuntu/C/index.html
[10:05] <jsgotangco> /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/HTML/en/about-ubuntu/C/index.html
[10:05] <jsgotangco> already has the updated page
[10:06] <rob^> hmm
[10:06] <rob^> I reverted everything now it validates
[10:06] <jsgotangco> FF fonts are ugly hmmm
[10:08] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:08] <jsgotangco> at least the docs are now in
[10:08] <jsgotangco> we'll just have to play around with yelp and sk
[10:09] <Burgundavia> are you we going to display the docs in yelp?
[10:09] <jsgotangco> yelp does HTML
[10:09] <Burgundavia> rob^, are you doing to dig around that preface/revhistory error?
[10:10] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, it should! it uses gecko
[10:10] <rob^> yes
[10:10] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, the question now is how to make a nice yelp front page that show our docs
[10:10] <Burgundavia> cool
[10:10] <Burgundavia> ye
[10:10] <jsgotangco> or else we end up getting the same yelp chunk scheme
[10:10] <Burgundavia> can we move preface to the back of the doc?
[10:11] <Burgundavia> just before the licenses?
[10:11] <Burgundavia> call it end-notes or something?
[10:11] <jsgotangco> end matter
[10:11] <Burgundavia> ya
[10:11] <rob^> its not end notes though
[10:11] <rob^> its stuff you need to know for the rest of the docuement
[10:11] <rob^> like conventions
[10:12] <jsgotangco> the licenses?
[10:12] <Burgundavia> the contributing and  feedback can go back
[10:12] <jsgotangco> oh right
[10:12] <rob^> yes, they can
[10:12] <Burgundavia> the first two should be merged into a better welcome page
[10:12] <Burgundavia> a true preface
[10:12] <rob^> Credits and Licence and the Disclaimer should stay at the top also
[10:13] <Burgundavia> they are currently not though
[10:13] <rob^> where they are above the abstract is ok
[10:15] <Burgundavia> we should have an absolute minimum at the beginning
[10:15] <rob^> as for the revhistory, I'm not sure how to move it
[10:15] <Burgundavia> rob^, ping sean, he should be able to help us
[10:16] <rob^> everytime I do, it doesn't validate
[10:17] <jsgotangco> i believe revhistory is strictly at the top always
[10:17] <rob^> yeah I think it is
[10:17] <jsgotangco> the tags themselves have a heirarchy
[10:17] <rob^> which sucks
[10:17] <jsgotangco> well
[10:17] <jsgotangco> its a book tag after all
[10:17] <Burgundavia> do we need a revision history?
[10:17] <jsgotangco> not a formatting tag
[10:18] <jsgotangco> i would suggest
[10:18] <jsgotangco> is remove the revision history on the final doc
[10:18] <jsgotangco> probably make it a separate xml page
[10:18] <jsgotangco> and just comment it out upon release
[10:18] <rob^> can we add that to the makefile or something?
[10:18] <jsgotangco> no i meant making it a separate chapter
[10:19] <rob^> its in its own .xml file
[10:19] <jsgotangco> yes
[10:19] <jsgotangco> its just the developer's file
[10:19] <jsgotangco> and comment it out
[10:19] <jsgotangco> its a nasty workaround
[10:19] <jsgotangco> but it'll work
[10:19] <rob^> yep
[10:19] <jsgotangco> the revisions are for us anyways
[10:20] <jsgotangco> well if you're printing the doc, its quite usable
[10:20] <jsgotangco> but its not meant to automate
[10:20] <jsgotangco> its a tag after all
[10:21] <Burgundavia> then our revision history would have one entry
[10:21] <Burgundavia> because then the revision history is for each release, not each change
[10:23] <jsgotangco> yes it's supposed to be like that
[10:23] <jsgotangco> changes let svn handle it
[10:23] <Burgundavia> I say we just drop it entirely
[10:24] <jsgotangco> doesn't really matter imo
[10:24] <jsgotangco> we can always refer to ubuntu-doc-commit
[10:24] <Burgundavia> if we keep it, it doesn't validate and that sucks
[10:24] <Burgundavia> because it barfs a lot of crap on the screen
[10:24] <rob^> I just sent the hack to the mailing list
[10:24] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, can it then, its of no use to the reader really
[10:25] <Burgundavia> rob^, ok, I will apply that
[10:25] <rob^> I killed it but added a comment to tell authors where to find it
[10:26] <jsgotangco> ippiraman, still around? :)
[10:26] <ippiraman> yup
[10:26] <ippiraman> i'm figuring out svn
[10:26] <jsgotangco> great
[10:26] <jsgotangco> ippiraman, its 200MB at the moment, so if you're bandwidth-challeged...
[10:26] <rob^> hmm.. its starting to look pretty
[10:27] <ippiraman> not a problem
[10:27] <jsgotangco> rob^, should i build this to html again to check?
[10:27] <rob^> I just did, it works
[10:28] <rob^> you can run the validate script manually you know
[10:28] <rob^> without building it each time
[10:29] <jsgotangco> well yes
[10:29] <jsgotangco> i want to see how it looks
[10:29] <rob^> oh
[10:29] <jsgotangco> (im lazy at looking other people's work)
[10:29] <rob^> yeah go right ahead, there is a few more things I want to improve, but yeah
[10:30] <jsgotangco> strange it takes a while
[10:30] <rob^> The shade.verbatim parameter is deprecated. Use CSS instead,
[10:30] <rob^> for example: pre.screen { background-color: #E0E0E0; }
[10:31] <rob^> I get a lot of that when I build
[10:31] <rob^> only in the last few days
[10:31] <jsgotangco> nahh that's probably breezy docbook-xsl related
[10:31] <rob^> yeah
[10:31] <jsgotangco> hoary works fine
[10:31] <rob^> probably
[10:32] <jsgotangco> looks good
[10:33] <jsgotangco> i got a question though
[10:33] <jsgotangco> anyone can give their opinion
[10:33] <jsgotangco> do we really need to include the whole GFDL license???
[10:33] <rob^> yes, apparently we do
[10:33] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:33] <jsgotangco> is not enough we mention it and just link to a human-readable site?
[10:34] <rob^> its a shame it have to take up so much of the toc though
[10:34] <ippiraman> a link would suffice
[10:34] <Burgundavia> we can probably link to /usr/share/common-licenses
[10:34] <Burgundavia> which should have both cc-by-sa2.0 and gfdl
[10:34] <rob^> it should just be: B. GNU Free Documentation License
[10:34] <rob^> not the whole toc fo the gfdl
[10:35] <rob^> of*
[10:35] <jsgotangco> yes
[10:35] <Burgundavia> what about just a toc item Authors and License?
[10:35] <jsgotangco> gnome docs don't really have this
[10:35] <Burgundavia> and list everything under there
[10:35] <rob^> we have a Credits and License already at the start
[10:36] <Burgundavia> we do?
[10:36] <Burgundavia> not under yelp on my machine
[10:36] <rob^> I'm looking at it now in ff
[10:36] <jsgotangco> these things are just part of external entities that we have used from the start
[10:36] <jsgotangco> there must be away to clean this up
[10:36] <jsgotangco> but still indicating that we use these licenses
[10:36] <jsgotangco> but not putting out all the text
[10:37] <Burgundavia> can we chop xine-ui, mplayer and beep-media-player>/
[10:37] <Burgundavia> ?
[10:37] <jsgotangco> i look at it with yelp and the GFDL uses more real estate than the actual doc
[10:37] <Burgundavia> the people who use those programs are not likely to read our docs
[10:37] <rob^> hmm the faq just crashed my yelp
[10:37] <Burgundavia> and we already have totem (with its new mozilla plugin) and rb
[10:38] <rob^> totem and xine/mplayer are different
[10:38] <rob^> bmp is a better xmms
[10:38] <Burgundavia> I am saying we already have the entire stack, suppported and usable
[10:38] <Burgundavia> we don't need to promote crackish programs like xine and mplayer
[10:39] <rob^> xine and mplayer are like windvd
[10:39] <jsgotangco> i perfer xine than totem
[10:39] <rob^> same
[10:39] <Burgundavia> yes, but this doc is not written for you
[10:39] <jsgotangco> and xine has a very familiar interface
[10:39] <rob^> does xine have a ff plugin or is that only mplayer?
[10:39] <Burgundavia> ugh
[10:39] <Burgundavia> honestly, totem and rb are much much nicer programs
[10:39] <jsgotangco> sure they are
[10:40] <Burgundavia> and they are supported
[10:40] <rob^> well, now people have the option
[10:40] <jsgotangco> and they crash to me at the moment
[10:40] <Burgundavia> yes, but the people who use those programs are not likely to read our docs
[10:40] <rob^> all the packages are in the breezy archives
[10:40] <rob^> no, not always
[10:40] <jsgotangco> i'd can beep though
[10:40] <rob^> more then just grandma will read our docs
[10:41] <Burgundavia> people like us google
[10:41] <Burgundavia> lets be honest
[10:41] <rob^> just look at #ubuntu
[10:41] <rob^> not too many grandmas in there
[10:41] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:41] <Burgundavia> the people in #ubuntu are also unlikely to reading our docs
[10:41] <rob^> yet they ask and probably some use xine/mplayer/bmp
[10:42] <rob^> yes, but they should be
[10:42] <rob^> or will be, rather
[10:42] <Burgundavia> and if they are, they will learn about the great solutions we already have installed by defualt
[10:42] <rob^> look at ubuntuguide..
[10:42] <rob^> how often is that mentioned in #ubuntu, despite it being taboo
[10:42] <Burgundavia> again, ubuntuguide only caters to a tiny fraction of the computer using community
[10:42] <rob^> yet when people ask about stuff, some people point them there
[10:42] <rob^> does totem have a ff plugin?
[10:43] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:43] <rob^> you could replace mplayer with it
[10:43] <Burgundavia> already installed by default, it should just work
[10:43] <rob^> as a plugin or do you need to enable it?
[10:43] <Burgundavia> it just worked
[10:43] <Burgundavia> s/worked/works
[10:43] <Burgundavia> installed by default
[10:44] <rob^> well, we could can mplayer then
[10:44] <Burgundavia> what about beep?
[10:44] <Burgundavia> and xine?
[10:44] <jsgotangco> can beep
[10:44] <jsgotangco> rb is better
[10:44] <rob^> I think we should keep beep
[10:44] <Burgundavia> why?
[10:44] <rob^> I prefer beep over rb
[10:44] <Burgundavia> we already have rb
[10:44] <jsgotangco> you
[10:44] <Burgundavia> yes, but rb is already installed
[10:45] <rob^> yes, people can use it, but when someone says "can I have one that looks like winamp?" there is beep
[10:45] <rob^> a lot of people hate rb
[10:45] <rob^> me included
[10:45] <Burgundavia> as do I, but a lot of people really like that interface
[10:45] <Burgundavia> my gf (a completely non-technical user), likes it
[10:46] <rob^> well, maybe you could change the question to "how to I install winamp-like music player" or something to that effect
[10:46] <rob^> *do
[10:46] <Burgundavia> ugh
[10:46] <jsgotangco> heh
[10:46] <jsgotangco> i told you guys about this before
[10:46] <jsgotangco> open up universe in docs
[10:46] <jsgotangco> and you open up a lot of cans of worms
[10:47] <jsgotangco> (no offense meant to MOTU)
[10:47] <rob^> maybe, but half of the stuff in the faq is from universe/multiverse
[10:47] <jsgotangco> and those things are not officially supported
[10:48] <rob^> cowbell, streamtuner, audacity and heaps more
[10:48] <Burgundavia> we are trying to restrict it
[10:48] <Burgundavia> because nothing exists in main that duplicates them
[10:49] <jsgotangco> sure people will have nice systems but they'll consist of crack
[10:49] <jsgotangco> which will be a support issue
[10:49] <jsgotangco> and have people filing bugs in the wrong place probably
[10:49] <rob^> well, to do what your saying we will have to remove heaps of stuff
[10:49] <Burgundavia> no
[10:50] <jsgotangco> rob^, this is much like restricted formats but only gentler
[10:50] <jsgotangco> im not saying we remove it this late in the game either
[10:50] <Burgundavia> we should only talk about something if there is no duplicative thing in main
[10:51] <rob^> so, replace beep with xmms then?
[10:51] <jsgotangco> xmms is much worse really
[10:51] <Burgundavia> ouch
[10:51] <Burgundavia> muine if anything
[10:51] <rob^> right, but they are the only winamp ones
[10:52] <jsgotangco> do people really still use winamp?
[10:52] <jsgotangco> wmp actually works for me
[10:52] <Burgundavia> some people even like it
[10:52] <rob^> I wouldn't know, but people like the interface
[10:52] <rob^> I hate the fact xmms is gtk1
[10:52] <Burgundavia> I used to
[10:52] <Burgundavia> until I discovered muine and totem
[10:52] <jsgotangco> its a relic that needs to be buried
[10:53] <jsgotangco> (not to mention Tux Magazine has xmms as the reader's choice)
[10:53] <Burgundavia> there isn't a dvd/movie player in existance with a better interface than totem
[10:53] <rob^> eww muine is way too simple
[10:53] <Burgundavia> rob^, umm, most people want simple
[10:53] <Burgundavia> it doesn't get in the way
[10:53] <jsgotangco> muine doesn't even hog space
[10:53] <rob^> for that they can use the defaults
[10:53] <jsgotangco> just press esc
[10:54] <rob^> doesnt work
[10:54] <Burgundavia> click on the icon in the notfication area
[10:54] <rob^> what icon?
[10:54] <jsgotangco> the music note
[10:54] <Burgundavia> you running breezy or hoary?
[10:54] <rob^> breezy
[10:54] <jsgotangco> muine is in universe
[10:54] <Burgundavia> oh, muine notification icon is borked in breezy
[10:55] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, icon got split into a seperate package in breezy
[10:55] <jsgotangco> ewww
[10:55] <jsgotangco> i haven't go universe here at the moment
[10:55] <jsgotangco> no reason really
[10:55] <Burgundavia> so, the final verdict on xine, mplayer and beep?
[10:55] <jsgotangco> can beep
[10:56] <jsgotangco> i'd keep xine really
[10:56] <rob^> hmm
[10:56] <Burgundavia> but totem does the same job as xine
[10:56] <rob^> is muine in main?
[10:56] <Burgundavia> no, universe
[10:56] <jsgotangco> hmm totem crashes on me right now
[10:56] <rob^> so either muine or beep..
[10:57] <jsgotangco> err what is the multimedia systems selector that totem wants so much?
[10:57] <jsgotangco> oh wait
[10:57] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, huh?
[10:57] <rob^> keep xine, can mplayer
[10:57] <Burgundavia> that selects the backend for gstreamer
[10:58] <rob^> choose either beep or muine
[10:58] <rob^> I'd prefer beep
[10:58] <rob^> it does more
[10:58] <jsgotangco> totem crashed on me and said i had to set the output from multimedia systems selector
[10:58] <rob^> System -> preferences -> multimedia systems selector
[10:59] <jsgotangco> rob^, yes
[10:59] <jsgotangco> my point is that totem didnt do that in the first place
[10:59] <rob^> yeah
[10:59] <rob^> and xine just works
[10:59] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, you have totem-gstreamer or totem-xine?
[10:59] <jsgotangco> dont worry it works now
[11:00] <jsgotangco> i had to fix up gstreamer
[11:00] <Burgundavia> what about this compromise?
[11:00] <rob^> keep xine, can mplayer
[11:00] <jsgotangco> its not the most beautiful app in gnome really, but its what we have
[11:00] <jsgotangco> i still we keep xine
[11:00] <Burgundavia> we mention all the other music/movie playing apps out there
[11:00] <rob^> I'd like to keep beep
[11:00] <Burgundavia> under one big heading
[11:01] <Burgundavia> How do I install other music playing applications?
[11:01] <rob^> maybe, but it might be ugly and doesn't explain anything
[11:01] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, it would be a good compromise to use Totem first and foremost and just point to other apps if they dont like the default
[11:01] <Burgundavia> neither does us cherrypicking certain apps
[11:01] <jsgotangco> hmm
[11:01] <jsgotangco> actually
[11:02] <jsgotangco> i almost forgot
[11:02] <Burgundavia> currently the faqguide doesn't even mention totem
[11:02] <jsgotangco> i prefer VLC more than Xine
[11:02] <Burgundavia> or how to play movies
[11:02] <Burgundavia> there are just so many crackish apps out there to choose from
[11:02] <jsgotangco> vlc is less cracked than xine
[11:02] <Burgundavia> anything other than what we ship by default is crack
[11:02] <rob^> man this is painful
[11:03] <rob^> I guess the answers simple, go with the defaults
[11:03] <rob^> rb, totem
[11:03] <rob^> maybe explain totem-gstreamer/totem-xine though
[11:03] <Burgundavia> yes
[11:03] <Burgundavia> I am just going to say to install totem-xine
[11:04] <rob^> yep
[11:04] <Burgundavia> should I add something about how to find other applications?
[11:05] <rob^> no, I wouldn't bother
[11:05] <Burgundavia> ok
[11:10] <Burgundavia> well, I need to crash
[11:10] <Burgundavia> night all
[11:10] <jsgotangco> night
[11:19] <jsgotangco> now that Corey has crashed i have the svn all for myself now
[11:19] <rob^> not yet you dont :)
[11:19] <rob^> well, kinda
[11:19] <jsgotangco> you don't have an account atm
[11:19] <rob^> I cant commit
[11:20] <rob^> I do, I just cant access it
[11:20] <jsgotangco> unless mdke or sean comes in
[11:29] <rob^> got another patch for you
[11:29] <rob^> ah fudge, I made a spelling mistake
[11:30] <rob^> I'll fix it after you commit it
[11:31] <jsgotangco> doh
[11:31] <jsgotangco> why not just revert
[11:31] <rob^> wont that remove all my changes?
[11:31] <jsgotangco> yeah :)
[11:32] <jsgotangco> hold on lemme apply that
[11:32] <rob^> I just need to change a "t" to a "d"
[11:32] <jsgotangco> its not on my email yet
[11:33] <rob^> I've sent it :)
[11:33] <jsgotangco> ahh there
[11:33] <jsgotangco> err
[11:33] <jsgotangco> there's no attachment
[11:34] <rob^> oops
[11:34] <jsgotangco> err
[11:34] <jsgotangco> did you validate first?
[11:35] <rob^> yes, just forgot to attach the patch
[11:39] <rob^> done
[11:39] <jsgotangco> ok hold on
[11:41] <jsgotangco> it gets rejected?
[11:42] <rob^> change the d back to a t and see what happens?
[11:42] <jsgotangco> d?
[11:42] <rob^> how to I use sudo?
[11:43] <rob^> that line
[11:43] <jsgotangco> Reversed (or previously applied) patch detected! Assume -R [n]
[11:43] <rob^> wtf?
[11:43] <jsgotangco> reversed patch?
[11:43] <rob^> hmm, must have been a commit between patches
[11:44] <jsgotangco> did you svn up before the patch?
[11:44] <rob^> not recently
[11:44] <jsgotangco> ok you should be in 1695 now
[11:46] <rob^> still in 1690
[11:46] <rob^> fark
[11:46] <jsgotangco> dohhh
[11:46] <jsgotangco> i think corey made a ton of changes
[11:47] <rob^> about 5 by the looks
[11:47] <rob^> :)
[11:47] <jsgotangco> yes
[11:47] <jsgotangco> he made changes, removed gstreamer backend, added totom-xine, etc.
[11:48] <rob^> ok, try this one
[11:50] <jsgotangco> ok waiting
[11:54] <jsgotangco> ok this works
[11:54] <rob^> :) yay
[11:56] <jsgotangco> ok svn up
[11:56] <rob^> hmm
[11:56] <rob^> G    generic/faqguide/C/faqguide.xml
[11:57] <rob^> is that right?
[12:03] <rob^> ok, one more diff
[12:03] <rob^> then I'll leave you alone
[12:05] <jsgotangco> heh
[12:06] <rob^> thanks :)
[12:34] <jsgotangco> heh sorry i will apply it now
[12:35] <jsgotangco> (i was busy finishing something)
[12:35] <rob^> http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/New_Venice
[12:35] <rob^> sick
[12:37] <rob^> thanks
[12:37] <jsgotangco> applied
[12:37] <rob^> cheers
[12:38] <jsgotangco> send me a blue tongue
[12:38] <rob^> lizard?
[12:38] <jsgotangco> beer heh
[12:39] <jsgotangco> ok i guess i'm done for today
[12:39] <jsgotangco> man im tired
[12:39] <rob^> yeah
[12:39] <rob^> same
[12:39] <jsgotangco> i have yet to finish my slides for linuxworld
[12:39] <jsgotangco> grr
[12:39] <ippiraman> hope to see you there jsgotangco
[12:39] <rob^> hows hacking my presentation going?
[12:40] <jsgotangco> oh so you're going to LinuxWorld
[12:40] <jsgotangco> rob^, i've added some
[12:40] <rob^> cool
[12:40] <jsgotangco> i have two talks at the moment
[12:40] <ippiraman> it's on my sked. but i can't guarantee
[12:40] <rob^> when is the next one?
[12:40] <jsgotangco> this tuesday, i'll be speaking in an all-girls college which should be nice
[12:41] <rob^> heh
[12:41] <ippiraman> drool
[12:41] <jsgotangco> if i can make them scream over GAIM, then i'm good
[12:41] <rob^> hmm, the site says april 3-6 2006
[12:41] <jsgotangco> err
[12:41] <jsgotangco> no
[12:41] <ippiraman> btw, is there webcam support for gaim?
[12:41] <jsgotangco> not LinuxWorld in USA
[12:41] <rob^> ah
[12:42] <jsgotangco> that's too big and i'm too small for that
[12:42] <rob^> that explains it :)
[12:42] <rob^> haha
[12:42] <jsgotangco> i would even call it an achievement if i get to talk in LCA
[12:43] <jsgotangco> you might want to check jbailey's package for ubuntu-doc in breezy
[12:43] <jsgotangco> its all the html
[12:44] <rob^> its meant to be html isn't is?
[12:44] <jsgotangco> yes but the faqguide isn't css'ed yet
[12:44] <jsgotangco> but the about ubuntu is now
[12:45] <rob^> is the package in the repos yet?
[12:45] <jsgotangco> yes
[12:45] <jsgotangco> just update then upgrade
[12:45] <rob^> yep
[12:48] <jsgotangco> alright im going to the bar
[12:48] <jsgotangco> have a nice weekend
[12:48] <ippiraman> goog
[12:49] <rob^> cay
[12:49] <rob^> have a beer for me
[12:49] <jsgotangco> ill just think about other stuff later
[12:49] <jsgotangco> hehe
[12:49] <rob^> cya
[12:49] <ippiraman> ok
[12:49] <rob^> where are our docs located on the system?
[12:49] <jsgotangco> ippiraman, send me an email just in case you want to get started
[12:49] <ippiraman> ok
[12:49] <jsgotangco> unfortunately, we're in the middle of a deadline so...
[12:50] <jsgotangco> rob^, should be at /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/
[12:50] <rob^> hmm, the Description of the ubuntu-docs package needs to be updated
[12:51] <jsgotangco> man FF fonts are sick
[12:51] <rob^> yeah
[12:51] <rob^> hmm, that faq guide is a little outdated..
[12:52] <rob^> so is the Help Topics page in yelp
[12:53] <ippiraman> i'm out for now
[01:02] <rob^> ok night all
[02:55] <mgalvin> morning all
[02:55] <jsgotangco> hey mgalvin
[02:55] <jsgotangco> mgalvin: good news, jbailey has started packaging
[02:55] <mgalvin> yup :)
[02:55] <jsgotangco> we now have some rudimentary docs in breezy now
[02:55] <mgalvin> i know, i was talking to him about it yesterday
[02:56] <jsgotangco> ah right when i was asleep
[02:56] <jsgotangco> hehe
[02:56] <mgalvin> yea i saw the upload, sweet
[02:57] <jbailey> mgalvin, jsgotangco: Now I think it mostly needs updating and linking against the pieces that need to look at it.
[02:57] <mgalvin> cool
[02:57] <jbailey> I don't know how much of it we'll actually get done for Breezy, but hopefully I can stay with you guys and take care of the hard grunt stuff.
[02:57] <mgalvin> jbailey: thanks for getting all this done and helping us out
[02:57] <jsgotangco> oh for sure what's on svn won't make it all
[02:58] <jsgotangco> some of the docs are just stagnant
[02:58] <jbailey> Well, I was sort of wondering if I should ask mdz to drop the doc freeze for Breezy.
[02:59] <jsgotangco> it would buy us time
[02:59] <jbailey> It'll be a bit harder on translators, but it seems better to be able to keep doing updates right to the end for the documentation package so that we can do little cleanups/changes.
[02:59] <mgalvin> it would allow us to get more done
[02:59] <jsgotangco> yes
[02:59] <jbailey> Things like the release notes have to be updated until the day of the release anyway.
[02:59] <jbailey> There are things we just won't know until release candidate testing time.
[02:59] <jsgotangco> thats true
[03:00] <jbailey> I'll approach him about that later.
[03:00] <jbailey> It's easier now that we've got the docs in there. =)
[03:00] <mgalvin> yup, great
[03:00] <jsgotangco> we've been updating the faqguide today while you were sleeping...
[03:00] <jsgotangco> so a new html should be built
[03:02] <mgalvin> say i know this it OT, but have either of you tried using vmware on breezy? it will not work for me
[03:02] <mgalvin> works in hoary fine, i only ask b/c i may be able to get breezy onto 70 corp laptops if i can get vmware to work on it
[03:02] <jsgotangco> sorry
[03:03] <jsgotangco> i should really learn scrollkeeper and packaging after breezy
[03:04] <jbailey> mgalvin: Add the 'BusLogic' driver to /etc/mkinitramfs/modules and rebuild the initramfs
[03:04] <jbailey> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13521
[03:05] <jbailey> The more interesting details are in the referred bug, 11237
[03:06] <mgalvin> jbailey: not breezy in vmware... vmware install on breezy to run windows on top of breezy
[03:06] <mgalvin> vmware does not compile b/c the kernel uses gcc3.4 and it complains about gcc4, the when i force it to use gcc3.4, it just hangs
[03:08] <jbailey> Oh, no idea then, sorry.
[03:08] <Liz> ae there many changes or differences in breezy to warrant updating to it?
[03:08] <mgalvin> no prob, thnx anyway for the pointer
[03:08] <mgalvin> i'll oke at it a bit more
[03:08] <jbailey> Liz: Yes there's alot changed, but it's not released yet.
[03:08] <Liz> ae = are
[03:08] <mgalvin> yes
[03:09] <jbailey> Liz: So if you're not comforatable with your system being somewhat in flux, don't do it yet.
[03:09] <Liz> oh i know its not released yet..just wondering if there were alot more differences to the last one
[03:09] <jsgotangco> especially if don't like your laptop's touchpad to go like 2cm per slide of your finger
[03:09] <jsgotangco> its painfullll
[03:09] <jsgotangco> good thing i have accupoint as well
[03:14] <Liz> i dont like touchpads too much
[03:14] <Liz> they kinda annoy me..i always conenct a mouse and use that
[03:16] <mgalvin> bbl
[03:18] <Liz> bedtime
[03:18] <Liz> nite all
[04:06] <jsgotangco> hey jjesse
[05:17] <jsgotangco> night


[01:24] <shtylman> superm1 ev: if anything need explaining with my branch let me know
[01:24] <shtylman> there were a few items I hacked into place
[01:24] <shtylman> that can probly be cleaned up once all frontends are plugin based
[01:39] <ev> shtylman: indeed, I've been cleaning up as I go (lp:~ev/ubiquity/plugins-conversion)
[01:40] <shtylman> ev: cool
[01:41] <shtylman> once that is done... there are some more keyboard fixes I have in the works
[01:41] <shtylman> and some small resolution tweaks and the kde side should be good to go
[01:41] <shtylman> anything major change with partitioning i should look into?
[01:42] <ev> what keyboard fixes?
[01:42] <ev> partitioning> can you elaborate
[01:44] <shtylman> ev: I changed how the keyboard display looks (to show shift letters as well) and have just a few more things with that.
[01:44] <ev> okay cool
[01:45] <shtylman> partitioning: there was talk about raid? or changing stuff on the partitioner
[01:45] <ev> console-setup is already a plugin though
[01:45] <ev> so feel free to commit that to trunk
[01:45] <shtylman> ev: right I know it is... that was just a general change...unrelated to plugins
[01:46] <ev> shtylman: I believe cjwatson is working on adding raid support to partitioning page
[01:49] <shtylman> ev: gotcha...ok...I will see what he comes up with and hopefully port that over to kde side if he doesn't in the process
[01:50] <ev> coolness
[02:14] <CarlFK> lucid alt installer supports encrypting any device (/dev/hda1).  do either karmic installer have that option?
[02:14] <CarlFK> trying to figure out how to encrypt /
[02:15] <cjwatson> none of this stuff has changed in lulcid, to my knowledge
[02:15] <cjwatson> *lucid
[02:16] <cjwatson> so if lucid supports itthen karmic does too
[02:16] <CarlFK> so the alter installer should have it.  know if the live cd one does?
[02:20] <cjwatson> no.
[02:20] <cjwatson> this may change at some point but it's not explicitly on the lucid agenda
[02:24] <CarlFK> thanks - the "encrypt home" option had me thinking I was missing something.  I'll get the alt.
[14:54] <laumonier> i try to launch ubuntu 10.04 on my usb key then i come to the live boot screen and then even if i choose try without installing or  install i have a black screen next someone could help me????
[19:31] <ev> cjwatson: do you have a suggestion for a good place for this to live: http://paste.ubuntu.com/367770/ ?
[19:33] <cjwatson> ev: is this the oem-dvd-iso tool?
[19:34] <ev> ja
[19:34] <cjwatson> oem-config is tempting, but I guess it gets removed
[19:34] <cjwatson> how about a new binary package produced by ubiquity?
[19:35] <ev> seems reasonable enough
[19:35] <ev> okay
[20:19] <CIA-6> apt-setup: cjwatson * r181 ubuntu/ (4 files in 3 dirs):
[20:19] <CIA-6> apt-setup: * Backport from trunk:
[20:19] <CIA-6> apt-setup:  - Guard against future multiple-CD handling changes in apt. If multiple
[20:19] <CIA-6> apt-setup:  CDs are inserted then any one can satisfy a media-change request. We
[20:19] <CIA-6> apt-setup:  don't yet deal with multiple CDs everywhere, but at least we won't
[20:19] <CIA-6> apt-setup:  break when 'apt-cdrom ident' starts returning multiple labels.
[20:36] <CIA-6> ubiquity: evand * r3733 ubiquity/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
[20:36] <CIA-6> ubiquity: Add an additional package (oem-config-remaster) to remaster an
[20:36] <CIA-6> ubiquity: Ubuntu ISO with additional packages and oem-config preseed data.
[20:40] <CIA-6> ubiquity: evand * r3734 ubiquity/scripts/install.py: Catch more debconf exceptions.
[20:44] <CIA-6> apt-setup: cjwatson * r182 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1:0.42ubuntu2
[21:02] <CIA-6> partman-target: cjwatson * r786 ubuntu/ (5 files in 4 dirs):
[21:02] <CIA-6> partman-target: Stop adding removable devices to /etc/fstab, now that apt knows how to
[21:02] <CIA-6> partman-target: find CD-ROM devices using libudev (LP: #33512).
[21:08] <CIA-6> ubiquity: superm1 * r3735 ubiquity/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
[21:08] <CIA-6> ubiquity: Add oem-config/late-command for cleaning up any preparation that was
[21:08] <CIA-6> ubiquity: done via oem-config/early-command for the oem-config run.
[22:23] <ev> nice
[23:09] <CIA-6> ubiquity: evand * r3722 plugins-conversion/ubiquity/frontend/kde_ui.py: Remove references to usersetup in kde_ui.
[23:14] <superm1> ev, so looking that over, it's not entirely clear; the additional repo be used w/o being GPG signed?
[23:14] <ev> can you phrase that in a different way?
[23:15] <ev> as it stands, you need to sign the repository with a key, though it doesn't matter which
[23:15] <ev> I thought about allowing --allow-unauthenticated
[23:16] <ev> but as it has the potential to also pull packages from the interwebs, I think that's a bad idea
[23:16] <superm1> that would be preferable if that was supported through some kind of override
[23:16] <superm1> at least for closed environments
[23:18] <ev> so an option to enable unauthenticated packages that also only installs from local sources?
[23:19] <ev> or just an option to override, which turfs the security considerations to the end user?
[23:20] <superm1> if it's doable; the former.
[23:22] <superm1> i was originally thinking this design was going to trump the whole pool rather than adding a supplemental pool (which would allow apt-cdrom to work)
[23:41] <CIA-6> partman-target: cjwatson * r787 ubuntu/debian/ (11 files in 2 dirs): Update translations of Ubuntu-specific strings from Launchpad.
[23:41] <ev> okay, I'll look into it
[23:42] <CIA-6> partman-target: cjwatson * r788 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 64ubuntu6
[23:46] <CIA-6> ubiquity: cjwatson * r3736 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog scripts/install.py):
[23:46] <CIA-6> ubiquity: Drop code to remove broken CD-ROM entries from /etc/fstab after install;
[23:46] <CIA-6> ubiquity: partman-target 64ubuntu6 no longer writes removable device entries to
[23:46] <CIA-6> ubiquity: /etc/fstab.