[00:04] <`26> Your silence is approbative.
[00:05] <directhex> and ablative, and subjunctive.
[00:32] <Sarvatt> i'm sorry, wasnt looking at this channel. if you don't want to figure out why X wont start with those packages to use the newer stuff what other option do you have besides downgrading things back? anything older than i965 doesn't have GLSL support by the way, which is why I was asking
[00:32] <`26> Sarvatt: GLSL runs just fine here, I tested with qsharededit.
[00:33] <`26> *qshaderedit
[00:33] <Sarvatt> in swrast yeah
[00:34] <`26> Sarvatt: it didn't use any CPU in the Mandelbrot example -- also, the extension for shader program appears in glxinfo (when used against some DRI libraries that actually work)
[00:36] <Sarvatt> you saw GL_ARB_vertex_shader and GL_ARB_fragment_shader, or just GL_ARB_fragment_program and GL_ARB_vertex_program?
[00:37] <Sarvatt> lspci | grep Display
[00:38] <`26> Intel Corporation Mobile 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 07)
[00:38] <`26> I'm not done downgrading yet, apt is being strange.
[00:40] <Sarvatt> ah should be ok then, after you downgrade it would probably be best to ask over in #dri-devel
[01:09] <`26> Sarvatt: Mesa DRI Mobile Intel® GM45 Express Chipset GEM 20090326 2009Q1 RC2
[01:30] <stgraber> ogra: any chance you're still around this late ?
[01:32] <Tonio_> ca m'output ca :
[01:33] <Tonio_> anyone using gnome over karmic could tell me the output of this command please ? pkg-config --print-errors --short-errors "gtk+-2.0"
[01:37] <Sarvatt> Package @GDK_PRIVATE_PACKAGES@ was not found in the pkg-config search path.
[01:37] <Sarvatt> Perhaps you should add the directory containing `<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:37] <Sarvatt> to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable
[01:37] <Sarvatt> Package '@GDK_PRIVATE_PACKAGES@', required by 'GDK', not found
[01:37] <cjwatson> Tonio_: no output
[01:37] <cjwatson> oh, well, I last upgraded this afternoon
[01:38] <Sarvatt> was 2 gtk+ updates today, second one hasnt been published yet
[01:39] <Tonio_> cjwatson: hum ok I'll test the second one... I get a strange issue, and since I know nothing about gtk...
[01:41] <cjwatson> $ dpkg-query -W libgtk2.0-dev
[01:41] <cjwatson> libgtk2.0-dev   2.17.0-0ubuntu1
[01:43] <Tonio_> cjwatson: libgtk2.0-dev   2.17.2-0ubuntu1
[01:43] <Sarvatt> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives//karmic-changes/2009-June/002794.html
[01:43] <Tonio_> cjwatson: the above command outputs me Package @GDK_PRIVATE_PACKAGES@ was not found in the pkg-config search path.
[01:44] <Sarvatt> theres a 0ubuntu2 coming
[01:44] <cjwatson> sounds like a fairly clear build snafu
[01:44] <cjwatson> that's an indicator of the autotools not having been properly told to substitute something
[01:44] <Tonio_> Sarvatt: thanks for the info, I'll wait and retest then...
[01:49] <Tonio_> cjwatson: thanks for the help
[02:29] <TheMuso> IdentityFile /home/luke/.ssh/work_rsa/c
[02:29] <TheMuso> woops
[06:23] <TheMuso> Fresh install of karmic, does evolution crash for anyone else?
[06:24] <TheMuso> i.e no GUI comes up at all?
[06:39] <pitti> Good morning
[06:39] <Sarvatt> TheMuso: it works here
[06:40] <TheMuso> Sarvatt: Interesting. THis is a fresh karmic install done today, and updated.
[06:41] <TheMuso> pitti: Good morning.
[06:42] <ajmitch> morning pitti
[06:42] <StevenK> Morning pitti
[06:43] <StevenK> pitti: I synced  opal a little while ago, and it wants celt :-(
[06:44] <pitti> yay new versions
[06:45] <StevenK> pitti: Yes :-(
[06:45] <StevenK> pitti: Shall I file an MIR and beat you with it?
[06:45] <pitti> s/you/anyone in MIR team/
[06:47] <StevenK> pitti: Beating you is much more fun :-P
[06:47] <pitti> pah
[06:59] <iulian> Riddell: Hey.  I've just seen that you uploaded a new version of python-qt4 to Karmic.  Is there any reason why you didn't merge it with Sid?  The reason I'm asking is because git-cola currently FTBFS because of a simple wrapper for pyuic4 which is in Sid at the moment but not in Karmic.
[07:00] <iulian> I'd like to have that wrapper script for pyuic4 in Karmic.  This could prevent other packages from FTBFS.
[07:01] <iulian> Having said that, I'm not 100% sure that this is the reason why git-cola failed to build, but looking at the build log from Debian, there is no sign of failing.  So, I believe this is the reason why it failed to build in Karmic.
[07:07] <TheMuso> c
[07:10] <highvoltage> d
[07:10] <iulian> Oh well, ScottK mentioned something about qscintilla(?) when I asked him about merging python-qt4 with Sid.  I don't know what he meant (/me hides).  Maybe he can give his opinion about this?
[07:10] <iulian> ScottK: ^
[07:11] <dholbach> good morning
[07:11] <iulian> Morning Daniel.
[07:11] <highvoltage> morning dholbach
[07:11] <dholbach> hiya iulian, hi highvoltage
[07:22] <StevenK> pitti: Bug #388285 for celt MIR :-)
[07:23] <pitti> asac, lool: ^ time to have a look?
[07:44] <pitti> jamesh: \o/ debian bug 532757
[07:45] <jamesh> pitti: cool.  The rabbitmq-server packages in Debian have also been updated with reduced dependencies now.
[07:46] <jamesh> so I guess the only erlang package specific delta we're carrying w.r.t. Debian is the libmozjs one in couchdb
[07:53] <jerroome> Hi, can anyone tell me how to manage the case where 2 packages procduced by myself have conflicts because they copy a file at the same location.
[07:53] <lifeless> jerroome: don't do that.
[07:54] <jerroome> secondly, is anyone able to tell what the reversed slot is for
[07:54] <StevenK> Reversed slot?
[07:54] <jerroome> inside the control file, there is a slot called rdepends
[07:55] <jerroome> sorry, I meant rdepends, not reverse slot
[07:55] <jerroome> why not doing that
[07:55] <jerroome> ?
[07:55] <StevenK> There shouldn't be, that can be determined by the archive
[07:55] <slangasek> (and can't be determined by the package itself)
[07:56] <jerroome> ok
[07:56] <jerroome> and why not writing at the same location with 2 different packages
[07:56] <jerroome> .
[07:56] <jerroome> ?
[07:57] <Hobbsee> because it's the equivalent of parking two cars on top of each other.
[07:57] <slangasek> turning the question around: why do you think this is something you *want* to do?
[07:57] <jerroome> should I create a third package and set the two others dependend on that one ?
[07:58] <slangasek> if it's the same exact file, then yes, definitely
[07:58] <slangasek> that, or have one of the packages depend on the other, if that's a reasonable thing to do
[07:59] <jerroome> no it isn't because there aren't necessary 2
[07:59] <jerroome> there can be one or n
[08:00] <jerroome> I'm developping software to run on axel terminals
[08:00] <jerroome> sorry, which should also run on terminals
[08:01] <jerroome> sometimes, there can be a few terminals
[08:01] <jerroome> and I need one package per system to run
[08:01] <jerroome> because, I have to be able to add and remove easily one machine
[08:02] <jerroome> I have trouble to explain everything in english
[08:02] <jerroome> ..
[08:02] <jerroome> I will make a third package
[08:02] <jerroome> thank you guys, once again, I got an answer quite fast .. :)
[09:02] <pitti> meh, seems gcc went crazy on the ports? I get a lot of "configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables
[09:03] <pitti> doko: ^
[09:04] <al-maisan> pitti: probably the recent binutils upload?
[09:04] <pitti> could be
[09:07] <al-maisan> pitti: from a recent perl build on sparc:
[09:08] <al-maisan> sh: gcc: not found
[09:08] <pitti> I saw it on libsoup2.4 and gnome-games
[09:10] <al-maisan> here's the relevant snippet from the build log: http://pastebin.com/m4f1ff8c4
[09:11] <seb128> pitti, not only on port, I got the same issue for gtk on armel
[09:11] <pitti> seb128: me too
[09:45] <reduz> Hi guys, question! does anyone here know if there is a way to get opengl 3.1 nvidia drivers working on ubuntu?
[10:37] <Riddell> hi  iulian
[10:37] <Riddell> I didn't see anything  in debian's svn for that package that was new, but let me look again
[11:13] <asac> hmm ... getting /usr/lib/gcc/powerpc-linux-gnu/4.4.0/../../../../lib/crti.o: could not read symbols: File format not recognized
[11:13] <asac> thats probably known?
[11:13] <Tallken> ft
[11:13] <Tallken> ups soz
[11:17] <asac> doko: ^^
[11:20] <mok0> Would someone please request a give-back on libdc1394-22 ?
[11:20] <mok0> It's clogging up the pipeline
[11:21] <Hobbsee> karmic, all arches?
[11:21] <mok0> Hobbsee: yes
[11:24]  * Hobbsee blinks at this new stuff
[11:25] <mok0> Hobbsee: what new stuff is that?
[11:25] <Hobbsee> neat
[11:25] <Hobbsee> mok0: the credential stuff for ubuntu-dev-tools
[11:25] <mok0> ah
[11:26] <lifeless> API's
[11:26] <Laney> we got a bug telling us off for that recently
[11:27] <Hobbsee> Laney: why so?  although it would be nice if the man page were finished
[11:27] <Hobbsee> in particular, the part about what consumer is
[11:27] <Hobbsee> and what it should be set to
[11:28] <Laney> Hobbsee: It can send http requests to LP to login on your behalf, which is naughty
[11:29] <mok0> Hobbsee: thx, I see it's building now!
[11:29] <Hobbsee> Laney: well, there is that
[11:29] <Hobbsee> Laney: does it log in properly?  ie, both to production and edge?  :D
[11:30] <Hobbsee> mok0: you're welcome
[11:31] <Laney> Hobbsee: I didn't even know it could do this actually. I didn't pass my credentials and it spawned a browser for me to login there.
[11:32] <Laney> that's the Proper OAuth Way isn't it?
[11:32] <Hobbsee> Laney: i'm not sure - but i would expect that's the sane solution
[11:33] <Laney> check out th ebug for a detailed analysis if you're curious
[11:34] <wgrant> Laney: That is the Proper Way, yes.
[11:34] <Hobbsee> i'm suer that will further stop me from studying for exams :(
[11:34] <wgrant> ie. you only ever give your Launchpad password to Launchpad.
[11:34] <wgrant> Not some nasty script written by those malicious Ubuntu developers.
[11:35] <Hobbsee> after all, they might take over your sysetm
[11:35] <Laney> they talk about writing some CLI clients to do this auth for you because doing the context switch to a web browser is undesirable
[11:35]  * Laney didn't think it was that bad
[11:49] <mok0> Hobbsee: Hm, the rebuild didn't succeed. I don't understand it, the dependency it claims is missing, is there
[11:49] <wgrant> mok0: Log?
[11:49] <mok0> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+builds?build_text=libdc1394-22&build_state=all
[11:50] <mok0> I just built the package successfully right here ?!?!!
[11:51] <wgrant> mok0: ogre-model
[11:51] <cjwatson> libdc1394-22 is in main
[11:51] <wgrant> The dep is in universe.
[11:51] <mok0> ah
[11:52] <bigon> Hi I think that libchamplain and geoclue must go to main if we want geoloc in next empathy release
[11:54] <mok0> wgrant: so should I request a move to universe?
[11:55] <wgrant> mok0: That doesn't sound like a very good idea.... stuff in main probably depends on it.
[11:55] <mok0> wgrant: well, that's no good if it doesn't build
[11:56] <mok0> request libusb-1.0-1 -> main then
[11:56] <ogra> write a MIR for the dep ? or fix the package to not dep on it ?
[11:56] <directhex> do i need to explicitly ask for something to drop to universe?
[11:58] <ogra> directhex, only if its seeded, else it should move on its own if all dependencies are gone
[11:58] <pitti> directhex: if it appears on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt, then no
[11:58] <pitti> directhex: if it doesn't appear there and needs to be unseeded, then please file a bug against ubuntu-meta
[11:58] <pitti> or ping here
[11:59] <pitti> hm, wget --no-check-certificate -O- 'https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo/Karmic?action=raw' gets me a 403
[11:59] <directhex> pitti, will do. i need a package uploaded to debian before i can realistically do it
[11:59] <tkamppeter> pitti, I want to prepare the SRU for CUPS, but there is no reference to the repo for Jaunty.
[12:00] <tkamppeter> Seems that LP has lost connection to the repos.
[12:00] <directhex> pitti, this change also removes a circular build-dep (yay)
[12:00] <pitti> tkamppeter: it's lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/cups/jaunty/
[12:01] <pitti> tkamppeter: (as Vcs-Bzr: says)
[12:01] <tkamppeter> pitti, there is no reference on https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/cups to any repo. Could they get added?
[12:01] <pitti> tkamppeter: no, those are package branches
[12:01] <pitti> tkamppeter: but they aren't intended to be used for the debian/ only bzr trees we currently have
[12:01] <pitti> so they remain on https://code.launchpad.net/cups for now
[12:02] <pitti> tkamppeter: eventually we'll use the package branches, but it's currently in a transition period
[12:02] <gaspa> is there some plan to change from usplash to plymouth in ubuntu as well?
[12:03] <ogra> seb128, the new padding in the listview of the latest evo looks weird
[12:03] <ogra> gaspa, no
[12:03] <Keybuk> kees: you never committed upstart 0.3.9-8 to bzr
[12:03] <Keybuk> damn you
[12:03] <Keybuk> *shakes first*
[12:03] <Keybuk> :p
[12:03] <Keybuk> err, fist
[12:05] <Keybuk> argh, worst still you patched the source directly
[12:05] <Keybuk> meh
[12:05] <ogra> debdiff ftw :)
[12:05] <gaspa> ogra: not at all? or simply "hasn't been talked about"?
[12:06] <Keybuk> actually, I'm trying to figure this mess out ;)
[12:06] <ogra> gaspa, the plan is to boot fast enough to not require any splash
[12:06] <Keybuk> source packages in revision control make everything such hard work
[12:06] <ogra> yeah
[12:06] <gaspa> ogra: ah, wow. :)
[12:06] <gaspa> thanks
[12:07] <ogra> there will be cases where you cant be fast enough, i.e. fsck or encrypted homedirs, where usplash will kick in
[13:28] <ScottK> iulian: Look at the eric bugs in Ubuntu (I mis-remembered).
[13:33] <billisnice> If you guys add click2try please make sure it can be disabled in services. I do not want the office staff to have access to it.
[13:35] <billisnice> I would like to see a service that is diabled not to show in the menus. Be totallly gone so not to try.
[13:36] <iulian> ScottK: Aha, OK, thanks.  I believe Riddell is looking into it as well.
[13:36] <iulian> It's worth having that wrapper script for pyuic4 in Karmic.
[13:50] <Laney> billisnice: what is quick2try exactly? I can't figure it out from their website
[13:51] <Chipzz> billisnice: how about uninstalling it then?
[13:54] <Keybuk> configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables
[13:54] <Keybuk> ...err,,,
[13:55] <pitti> Keybuk: all builds on ports fail today, probably binutils wreckage
[13:55] <Keybuk> oops ;)
[13:55] <seb128> not only port, armel fails the same way
[13:55] <seb128> only i386, amd64 and lpia are building
[14:07] <pitti> anyone happens to have experience with wiki downloading?
[14:07] <pitti> wget -O- 'https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Todo/Karmic?action=raw' just gets me a 403
[14:09] <pitti> hm, seems it's just wget acting up. urllib works fine
[14:11] <liw> hm, I used requestsync and now I don't know what happened to the request
[14:12] <liw> the request bug should be filed against the source package, right? (speedcrunch in this case)
[14:12] <ion_> liw: Btw, even though the clientside processing overhead is not considered for karmic (re: apt-sync), since you’ll set up a benchmarking environment, might as well benchmark the extra CPU time for each method. That information will be useful in the future. :-)
[14:25] <cjwatson> liw: yes
[14:25] <RainCT> Out of curiosity, is Karmic following Debian with the section changes?
[14:26] <cjwatson> we already did
[14:26] <RainCT> ok, cool
[14:27] <cjwatson> though we haven't actually gone through all the packages and changed the sections - but the archive supports the new sections
[14:27] <liw> ok, unless the mail requestsync generated is in some queue somewhere, the bug has completely vanished
[14:27] <cjwatson> mails to LP should be processed every three minutes, normally
[14:27] <cjwatson> maybe it's in some local mail queue?
[14:28] <cjwatson> you could also try using the --lp option rather than relying on mail
[14:29] <liw> the mail got accepted by mx.canonical.com about 25 minutes ago, so I doubt it is in a queue anymore
[14:30] <liw> oh, there's an --lp option? why isn't it used by default? why mess with mail at all?
[14:30] <Laney> the api is relatively new
[14:30] <cody-somerville> Whats the process for applying to get upload permissions to a single package?
[14:31] <cody-somerville> ie. I want to get upload rights to dput in main
[14:31] <liw> bah. "launchpadlib.errors.HTTPError: HTTP Error 401: Unauthorized"
[14:32] <cjwatson> manage-credentials, I think
[14:32]  * liw decides requestsync is not worth the trouble
[14:32] <cjwatson> cody-somerville: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#Per-package%20Uploaders
[14:32] <cody-somerville> cjwatson, thanks
[14:32] <liw> I've done manage-credentials once already. If it needs doing multiple times: not worth it.
[14:32] <billisnice> chipzz: The folks in my office do not understand uninstall, etc. They just want it to work. Millions just want it to work.
[14:34] <RainCT> liw: Running it once should be enough; seems like there's something wrong if that doesn't work
[14:35] <liw> RainCT, well, yes
[15:00] <Riddell> iulian: I don't understand what the wrapper script is for, there's already a /usr/bin/pyuic4 script
[15:15] <iulian> Riddell: Hmm, take a look at this build log: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/27856034/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.git-cola_<IP_ADDRESS>-2ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[15:15] <iulian> /usr/bin/pyuic4: 1: import: not found
[15:16] <cjwatson> somebody forgot a #! line?
[15:17] <iulian> cjwatson: I don't think so, where?
[15:19] <Riddell> cjwatson is right, the upstream /usr/bin/pyuic4 has no #! line
[15:19] <cjwatson> iulian: if pyuic4 is a python script then it should have #! /usr/bin/python at the top ...?
[15:19] <iulian> Oh, right.
[15:19] <liw> Riddell, fyi #388450 (speedcrunch merge/sync)
[15:21] <Chipzz> billisnice: I was thinking you would be the one installing those pcs...
[15:21] <billisnice> we have 30 office puters
[15:22] <billisnice> i do not know that much either
[15:22] <billisnice> just enough to mess it up
[15:22] <Riddell> iulian (cjwatson): I see, our package uses the upstream module and puts it in /usr/bin which doesn't work.  debian has that wrapper script instead so I'll change to what debian is doing
[15:25] <Riddell> liw: excellent, thanks
[15:31] <iulian> Riddell: Yea, that should do it, thanks.
[15:40] <Chipzz> billisnice: ... ...
[15:41] <Chipzz> billisnice: also, why are you talking about that here?
[15:42] <ogra> Chipzz, because you respond ?
[15:42] <ogra> :)
[15:42] <Chipzz> ogra: oh you mean I should tell him in my usually subtle way to read the fine topic? :)>
[15:42] <Chipzz> s/usually/usual/
[15:47] <billisnice> i thought developers were in here
[15:47] <billisnice> maybe not
[15:48] <ogra> billisnice, yes, developers are in here, discussing development issues of developing ubuntu :)
[15:50] <billisnice> i though it would a nice feature to add for us non tech folks, that is why i asked here....
[15:52] <Hobbsee> billisnice: there are a lot of nice featues that could be added.  Fotunately, there's a great place to collate them, and that's brainstorm.ubuntu.com.  You might want to try there, as irc really doesn't make a good todo list
[15:52] <ogra> beyond that i didnt see and question yet ...
[15:53] <ogra> "<billisnice> If you guys add click2try please make sure it can be disabled in services. I do not want the office staff to have access to it." .... doesnt really look like a feature request or something
[15:54]  * Chipzz wonders if someone can disable sth in services, why he can't uninstall it...
[15:54]  * ogra wonders what click2try is
[15:54] <Chipzz> but I suppose that would just be me
[15:54] <Chipzz> ogra: that too :)
[15:54] <billisnice> i will look for that site. I am in the real world of using Ubuntu for business. We do not understand or have time to understand the tech stuff.  lol
[15:55] <billisnice> i am on vac for a few weeks...and enjoy ubuntu
[15:56] <Chipzz> billisnice: you have it the wrong way around. click2try offers ubuntu. ubuntu doesn't offer click2try
[15:57] <Chipzz> now unless you can point us to a click2try package in the ubuntu repositories, I suggest you take the issue elsewhere
[15:57] <Pici> If you just want to chat about Ubuntu, you can join #ubuntu-offtopic, but the -devel channels are for actual development issues :)
[15:58] <billisnice> i do not understand lots for sure, but to not show services turned off in the menus leave no confusion of what you can and can not do...just a wanted feature for non tech folks.
[15:58] <Chipzz> billisnice: again, point us to the package which would be causing problems
[15:58] <Chipzz> I suspect there is none
[15:59] <billisnice> http://www.ereleases.com/pr/click2trytm-helps-users-run-ubuntu-open-source-catalog-21839
[15:59] <Chipzz> billisnice: did you even READ that????
[15:59] <Chipzz> FIRST sentence:
[15:59] <Chipzz> "click2try (http://www.click2try.com) today announced the availability of Ubuntu 8.04 (http://www.ubuntu.com) in its online catalog of virtualized Open Source applications."
[15:59] <billisnice> ok
[16:00] <billisnice> na
[16:00] <billisnice> just saw it
[16:00] <Chipzz> analyze the grammar
[16:00] <Chipzz> analyze the vocabulary
[16:00] <Chipzz> and tell me how this does concern the ubuntu developers?
[16:00] <Hobbsee> nice idea, though.  Totally irrelevant to here
[16:01] <billisnice> i am just a dumb butt for sure
[16:01] <billisnice> lol
[16:01] <billisnice> i do like ubuntu
[16:05] <cjwatson> billisnice: services are usually servers, rather than anything that might appear in the menus
[16:05] <cjwatson> if you mean as in System -> Administration -> Services
[16:05] <billisnice> ok, thanks
[16:06] <cjwatson> very few things there are at all tightly bound to a menu item
[16:06] <cjwatson> and in the cases where they are, it's usually in a client/server kind of way where the service is not necessarily on the same machine as the clients which would have the menu items
[16:08] <kees> Keybuk: iirc, upstart's tree was only writable by you at the time. :P
[16:10] <Keybuk> kees: not only that, but the source is missing from it anyway
[16:10] <Keybuk> so it has changelogs but no patches
[16:10]  * Keybuk deleted the tree
[16:11] <kees> Keybuk: heh
[16:12] <kees> Keybuk: making a core-dev branch for it?
[16:12] <Keybuk> kees: will do so at some point
[16:13] <Keybuk> though it's kinda hard
[16:13] <Keybuk> the core-dev branches are supposed to be buildable from a checkout
[16:13] <Keybuk> but I'd kinda like it to be branched off the upstream branch
[16:13] <Keybuk> which doesn't make things like configure in it ;)
[16:14] <kees> Keybuk: how about a get-orig-source build target?
[16:15] <cjwatson> Keybuk: like many things, James has a plan for that ;-)
[16:15] <cjwatson> (tarball branches)
[16:19] <pitti> Keybuk: or we just give in and call autoreconf in debian/rules; many packages do that, after all
[16:19] <pitti> (I don't particularly like it, but it's practical for git snapshots)
[16:20] <Keybuk> cjwatson: with an easy tool to update the tarball branch?
[16:20] <cjwatson> I'm not sure I've ever seen james_w do something that *didn't* involve writing a bzr plugin that anyone could use
[16:20] <cjwatson> (aka yes)
[16:45] <Riddell> asac: some MIRs assigned there for you.  feel free to take bug 374973 too although kees was looking at it last
[16:54] <asac> Riddell: did you use "assign" or subscribe?
[16:55]  * asac wonders whats up with his procmail rules ... no mails about thos MIRS in his "assigned" folder
[16:56] <Riddell> asac: subscribe
[16:57] <asac> Riddell: hmm ... my subscribed mailbox is currently under construction ;)
[16:57] <asac> do you have bug ids at hand? ;)
[16:57] <Riddell> asac: now assigned
[16:57] <asac> great
[16:57] <asac> thx
[17:05] <kees> asac: feel free to snag enca.
[17:05] <kees> i won't be able to check mir until later this week
[17:08] <mok0> Huh?? configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables
[17:08] <mok0> That's quite problematic for a compiler...
[17:10] <hyperair> mok0: the compilers sure seem to hate you recently
[17:11] <mok0> hyperair: they do
[17:11] <hyperair> heh
[17:11] <slangasek> it's a known problem
[17:11] <cjwatson> same binutils thing we were discussing earlier no?
[17:11] <slangasek> everything's FTBFS on the ports
[17:11] <hyperair> ouch
[17:11] <slangasek> cjwatson: made any progress on that, beyond definitively blaming binutils? :)
[17:12] <cjwatson> not I, didn't know I was on the hook
[17:12] <MacSlow> what's the package-name again of the https apt "thing"?
[17:13] <MacSlow> sorry for the lack of a better word
[17:13] <slangasek> cjwatson: you're not, but I thought you might know of some progress
[17:14] <MacSlow> ah... apt-transport-https it is I think
[17:15] <cjwatson> slangasek: I don't, I'm afraid; I can't even see a bug report
[17:15] <cjwatson> binutils was uploaded about the time everything stopped building, that's all
[17:15] <slangasek> no response from doko to the poking
[17:15] <freinhard> hi!
[17:15] <slangasek> doko: are you around?
[17:17] <freinhard> pitti: fixed some bugs in kubuntu's install-package, all of them catch exceptions, so no new features, just fix crashes. can we get these into jaunty? see http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jr/install-package/trunk/revision/21
[17:19] <slangasek> al-maisan: did you reproduce the build failures on any of the porter boxes, and confirm that binutils is to blame?
[17:19] <doko> slangasek: yes, arm and ia64 fixes are there, but not yet for sparc and powerpc
[17:19] <al-maisan> slangasek: no, not yet.
[17:20] <slangasek> doko: ok - staged on your side I guess, given that I don't see an upload?
[17:20] <doko> still running test builds
[17:20] <mok0> doko, give us  a poke when we can request give-backs
[17:21] <mok0> I thought I read that hppa was going away?
[17:22] <slangasek> mok0: would be more appropriate for the give-backs to be done centrally
[17:22] <mok0> slangasek: ok
[17:23] <ScottK> mok0: AFAICT, I think it's gone already.
[17:23] <mok0> ScottK, I got one error like that during the last hour or so
[17:23] <ScottK> mok0: (I mean hppa)
[17:23] <mok0> ScottK, ah :-)
[17:25] <mok0> ScottK, indeed, you are right. It's the sparc arch that's giving me troubles
[17:25] <mok0> Translational brain error
[17:28] <Riddell> iulian: new python-qt4 uploaded
[17:30] <mok0> Things are changing. This is the error I get now: Checking for C Compiler ...  Error: no C compiler detected - cannot do anything
[17:31] <slangasek> that's the same thing still
[17:31] <iulian> Riddell: Excellent, ta.
[17:32] <mok0> Isn't it possible to pause the buildds on the ports until things are back to normal?
[17:36] <pitti> freinhard: please check which of the fixed bugs match the criteria on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates, request an SRU on them, and  and subscribe ubuntu-sru
[17:37] <ScottK> mok0: IIRC it'd have to be stopped for all releases and not just the developement release, so that'd have an unfortunate affect on -updates/proposed and -backports.
[17:39] <pitti> I think we'll just do a global retry on those
[17:43] <cjwatson> I don't see a reason to pause the buildds - there seems to be a negligible risk of misbuilds here, it's just a certain amount of mails (which serve to remind us of the problem)
[17:56] <shtylman> anyone having inkscape crash on them with an internal error? and no other info?
[20:33] <mweichert> how is compiz called in gnome-session? I ask because I want compiz called with the following options --loose-binding and --indirect-rendering
[21:10] <ccheney> anyone have a suggestion for something to mirror https deb packages besides lftp? lftp in karmic seems very broken and segfaults after a small amount of transfer for me every time
[21:14]  * ccheney sees if it works for jaunty
[21:58] <billybigrigger> colin?
[22:21] <billybigrigger> !seen colin
[23:16] <joshk> is there a way to print something to tty0 even during a quiet boot?
[23:16] <joshk> i've tried: stderr, and log_*_msg from /lib/lsb/init-functions
[23:17] <joshk> i have this /etc/rc.local file that takes a while to run
[23:20] <TheMuso> Good morning.
[23:25]  * slangasek waves to TheMuso
[23:25] <slangasek> hmm, why is flash not talking to pulseaudio again here
[23:31] <dtchen> if you're using flashplugin-installer, check ia32-libs.
[23:32] <dtchen> fta: was the migration for libpulsecore* => libpulse0 done in ia32-libs?
[23:33] <billybigrigger> dtchen::: ia32-libs needs to be installed for sound in flash?
[23:34] <dtchen> billybigrigger: if pulse is configured to be active (which it is by default) using the 32-bit plugin and nspluginwrapper, yes
[23:34] <billybigrigger> that's only if i installed via flashplugin-installer?
[23:35] <dtchen> billybigrigger: if you're on 64-bit and installed via flashplugin-{nonfree,installer}, yes
[23:37] <billybigrigger> hmm
[23:37] <billybigrigger> i have met all the above requirements, still no sound
[23:37] <soren> dtchen: Do you have any pointers on troubleshooting a system I have where anything involving gstreamer just gives me a sort of static, while mplayer for instance produces sound just fine?
[23:38] <dtchen> soren: is pulse active?
[23:38] <soren> dtchen: Or is that a bit too high up the stack for you? :)
[23:38] <soren> dtchen: It's a fresh Jaunty install.
[23:38] <soren> dtchen: With a Karmic kernel, though.
[23:38] <dtchen> billybigrigger: hence my question above to fta; i haven't checked if ia32-libs has been updated
[23:39] <hile> hmmh, why is alsa-plugins still dropping build dependency on libavcodec-dev - I understood this was a temporary problem with ffmpeg not being in main, but afaik all bits required for this ARE in main
[23:39] <soren> dtchen: I've not activated nor deactivated pulse. Whatever is the default, that's what I got. :)
[23:40] <billybigrigger> so once ia32-libs has been updated we should be looking for working sound in flash then
[23:40] <dtchen> hile: ogra seems to be the last person to nudge/verify the libavcodec shipping (rather, not being able to be shipped) on cds issue
[23:41] <hile> I'm not actually interested about a52 output myself, was just wondering the alsa jack output status and noticed this as well (yes I would be much happier if libjack-dev were in main)
[23:41] <fta> dtchen: i have an updated ia32-libs in my staging PPA but it breaks flash, so i'm holding it for now, until we figure out why nspluginwrapper breaks with it.
[23:41] <dtchen> fta: ok, thanks
[23:42] <soren> dtchen: I see a pulseaudio process running, so I'm assuming that means "pulse is active".
[23:42] <hile> dtchen, you mean a52 output is not supported because the libs don't fit to CDs? duh
[23:42] <fta> dtchen, https://edge.launchpad.net/~fta/+archive/staging
[23:42] <dtchen> soren: if you configure the GSt audio.*sink to use alsasink, is the static reproducible?
[23:43] <dtchen> soren: if it's still reproducible, then you'd look at alsa-lib, specifically whether "speaker-test -c2 -Dplughw:X" corroborates the symptom
[23:44] <dtchen> soren: if it's not reproducible, then you'd look at which sink (and its corresponding "volume") is chosen in pavucontrol
[23:45] <dtchen> hile: no, there was a redistribution issue back in the hardy timeframe
[23:45] <soren> dtchen: No matter which sink I choose in gstreamer-properties and hit "Test", I get static.
[23:45] <soren> dtchen: It's a very clear static. I doubt it's a volume thing.
[23:45] <soren> dtchen: ..but what do I know? :)
[23:45] <hile> dtchen, but we DO ship the ffmpeg code in question anyway, or is this some a52-related patent stuff?
[23:46] <soren> brb
[23:46] <dtchen> soren: ok, so presuming Master/PCM/Front are not zeroed or muted, is the sink configured as intended? e.g., check pavucontrol
[23:47] <dtchen> hile: checking the changelog, it seems more a matter of "no one dropped the delta", but i haven't chased it down
[23:47] <hile> yeah, maybe it should be checked again before release?
[23:47] <hile> well, whatever, does not help promoting libjack+deps to main even if a52 is solved (so that I could use the damn jack alsa plugin without recompile)
[23:49] <dtchen> hile: the movement of j-a-c-k back into main is in progress
[23:51] <hile> very good, hope it can be done for karmic...
[23:53] <soren> dtchen: Thanks for your pointers. I'll have to check tomorrow. It's getting late, and I've still got a stack of actual work to do before I can call it a day. :/
[23:54] <dtchen> soren: yw
[23:55] <slangasek> dtchen: "back into" main?
[23:59] <soren> slangasek: libjack and friends were in main in Breezy and earlier.
[23:59] <slangasek> ah
[23:59] <slangasek> ancient history :)


[23:51] <ryanjyoder[m]> Hi all! I'm very new to this channel so i haven't dived in to the conversation too much. I've been thinking about creating a survey for everyone here concerning the group. Things like why you're here, what you hope to gain from the group, how you'd like to contribute, etc etc. I could create the list of questions, share with all of you and then compile and share the results. Would people be interested in that?
[23:51] <ryanjyoder[m]> I don't want to step on any toes. Maybe there's a better way of going about it?


[13:31] <janof> morning
[13:41] <balloons> howdy
[13:51] <balloons> anyone who wants to be in the hangout right away do let me know :-)
[13:51] <balloons> We've got room
[13:53] <janof> i do
[13:56] <philipballew> balloons, I can join
[13:57] <balloons> excellent
[13:57] <balloons> setting it up now
[13:57] <janof> awesome, thanks
[14:00] <balloons> anyone else wish to hop in?
[14:00] <janof> me
[14:01] <gema-uds> I cannot see who's in
[14:01] <gema-uds> balloons: call me if you need me, I sit on the back for now
[14:01] <smartboyhw> Hi
[14:01] <balloons> hello smartboyhw
[14:02] <txwikinger-uds> Anybody here?
[14:02] <jpickett> yup
[14:02]  * greatcthuhlu wakes from watery grave
[14:02] <cjohnston> mornin
[14:03] <theDoctor> morning everyone
[14:03] <gema_> o/
[14:03] <rickspencer3-uds> good morning all
[14:03] <txwikinger-uds> The hangout seems not be started yet?
[14:03] <gema_> txwikinger-uds: you need to reload
[14:03] <balloons> it's sytarted
[14:04] <ElderDryas> Maybe it would be a good thing for the track lead to let us know when the video starts, so we don't have to keep refreshing?
[14:04] <gema_> it has definitely started
[14:04] <txwikinger-uds> annoying to have to login all the time again
[14:04] <gema_> I am not sure there's a track lead on it, nick is broadcasting
[14:04] <smartboyhw> uh
[14:04] <gema_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=e275reHE62M
[14:04] <smartboyhw> Can't see tue
[14:04] <smartboyhw> the videp
[14:04] <smartboyhw> anyway
[14:06] <jasnow> upstream - Debian
[14:06] <philipballew> interesting point jasnow
[14:08] <jasnow> I tried to triage the Rails bugs during Global Jam last weekend but had hard time to learn specific processes/terms
[14:08] <gema_> aren't loco communities contributing already?
[14:08] <gema_> QUESTION: ^
[14:08] <commandoline_> It's not that easy for LoCo's where English isn't the native language, I think. You need to contact the right people that can spread it inside the loco
[14:10] <gema_> what happens when tests fail? they still need to raise bugs
[14:10] <txwikinger-uds> It is a misunderstading to think hat testing by amateurs is veryeffective
[14:10] <gema_> txwikinger-uds: agreed
[14:10] <gema_> balloons: can you share the link to the hangout?
[14:10] <jasnow> please add name in lower third
[14:11] <ElderDryas> and nick
[14:13] <txwikinger-uds> 95% of te LUG memberss here are male
[14:13] <txwikinger-uds> Agreed gema_
[14:14] <txwikinger-uds> Same as their are skils for development ... their are skills for testing
[14:14] <txwikinger-uds> their->there
[14:15] <thomi> QUESTION: I think it's important to identify a range of roles, and clearly identify which skills each role requires. THis is something the KDE project used to do very well. I don't currently know if this is documented abywhere?
[14:15]  * thomi looks for the old KDE documentaton
[14:17] <thomi> hmm, it seems to have gone downhill, but something like this: http://techbase.kde.org/Contribute
[14:17] <balloons> interesting thom
[14:17] <balloons> *thomim
[14:18] <thomi> gema_: I think tests need to be written in coordination with upstream projects, where possible. Otherwise, it's too easy to write a test that doesn't actually test what you want
[14:19] <txwikinger-uds> I have stopped filing automatic bugs since most of the time they are duplicates
[14:20] <txwikinger-uds> Never got acconplishmebts working on my machine... given I gave up quite a time ago
[14:21] <jasnow> manual vs. automated tester?
[14:21] <thomi> balloons: maybe 'role' is the wrong word... makes it sound too much like a job....
[14:21] <gema_> thomi: profile?
[14:22] <thomi> gema_: ++
[14:22] <thomi> yep
[14:23] <phillw> txwikinger-uds: it is still useful to file the automated bugs as it updates the database for 'how hot' a bug is.
[14:23] <thomi> balloons: I was thinking more along the lines of: if I'm new to Ubuntu, and I want to help the quality team, where do I go to see what I can do?
[14:23] <janof> how do you get the name at the bottom of screen ?
[14:24] <balloons> anyone who wishes to join in the hangout.. speak up :-0
[14:24] <txwikinger> phillw: Sorry... having to work for living, I do not have the time for things that 95% of the time are not used
[14:24] <phillw> I though it was updated as part of the daisy database?
[14:24] <balloons> janof, use lower third.. in the hangout toolbox
[14:24] <philipballew> anyone know numbers these days?
[14:26] <txwikinger-uds> You have to define community... if you say "everybody that uses Ubuntu" --- only a small percentage will be willing to contribute
[14:27] <balloons> txwikinger, what do you mean?
[14:28] <balloons> thomi, this is a start on: https://qa.ubuntu.com/getting-involved/
[14:28] <thomi> philipballew: I suspect that for many/most people, it's a percieved problem, rather than an actual one?
[14:28] <SergioMeneses> am I late?
[14:28] <SergioMeneses> jeje
[14:28] <SergioMeneses> morning!
[14:28] <txwikinger-uds> I know  more people I was able to convince to use Ubuntu than people that were willing to go the next step and contribute
[14:29] <cprofitt> I think one of the critical things about attracting new users is making sure that 'new' contributors understand that running the development version is important
[14:29] <cprofitt> those 'bugs' are the ones that are going to be more likely to be fixed
[14:29] <airurando_uds> If the bar is lowered your potential contributor base increases dramatically.
[14:29] <SergioMeneses> cprofitt, ++
[14:30] <cprofitt> I have to run to a meeting soon, but will you be discusing what the change from checkbox to plainbox is going to have on testing?
[14:30] <balloons> cprofitt, now I'll point people to your session
[14:30] <cprofitt> thanks balloons
[14:31] <cprofitt> will plainbox answer Gema's concern about checkbox?
[14:32] <gema_> cprofitt: what is plainbox?
[14:32] <cprofitt> gema_: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21607/client-1303-new-checkbox-core-plainbox/
[14:32] <cjohnston> balloons: the translations team could help with translating it to other language, so that we could get testing from non-english speakers
[14:32] <thomi> there's no point translating checkbox tests if you don't think they're any good.
[14:33] <cprofitt> not really sure what plainbox is...
[14:33] <cjohnston> thomi: true, but it could be improved
[14:33] <thomi> cjohnston: yup, but every time you change the english text you need to re-translate, so make them good *first*, then translate them to different languages...
[14:33] <cjohnston> correct
[14:33] <cprofitt> there are also issues, I think, with checkbox failing tests even though the computers is ok
[14:34] <cprofitt> I would prefer that tests be resumable as well
[14:34] <cprofitt> there is a Ubuntu Friendly one later today
[14:34] <cprofitt> thanks balloons
[14:34] <cprofitt> the easiest tests I have done are the ISO tests
[14:35] <jasnow> Partner with http://weekendtesting.com/
[14:35] <cjohnston> Who is the random guy on the hangout without a name? just curious
[14:36] <cprofitt> could there be a 'list of tests' that people could download
[14:36] <bladernr> On the other hand, everyone who uses checkbox is free to file bugs requesting improvements to the tests...
[14:36] <cprofitt> based on them knowing what their hardware is?
[14:37] <balloons> cjohnston, Nathan
[14:37] <cprofitt> ubuntu accomplishments require the server to be able to verify the test was run
[14:37] <cjohnston> +1 for philipballew
[14:37] <cjohnston> balloons: ty
[14:37] <balloons> jasnow, ohh.. interesting
[14:37] <balloons> have you used it?
[14:38] <gema_> balloons: 55
[14:38] <jasnow> until 14:55
[14:38] <thomi> philipballew: but that's still better than them not contributing at all, right?
[14:38] <cprofitt> philipballew: having them do one test and not liking it is better than them never having known that was an opportunity
[14:39] <cjohnston> philipballew: 1 test is better than none
[14:39] <cprofitt> it is a good idea to expose people to the process
[14:39] <thomi> heh :)
[14:39] <jasnow> Is "Quality" defined as only "testing"?
[14:39] <thomi> IRC is united!
[14:39] <balloons> jasnow, not necessarily
[14:39] <txwikinger-uds> You will only get an inflation of rewards.. otherwise it does not work
[14:40] <diwic> or produce better code in the first place
[14:41] <txwikinger-uds> TDD
[14:41] <diwic> education? practice?
[14:41] <roadmr> adding tests to existing projects is hard
[14:41] <roadmr> but it's doable if you somehow show them the benefit
[14:42] <roadmr> the leap from "ok, made a change, now let's click around the project to see how it works" to "made a change, ran a script, stuff auto-tested, ftw" is huge
[14:42] <roadmr> I think the biggest gap is in existing projects, as new ones are more likely to be designed with testability in mind
[14:43] <txwikinger-uds> just writing some tests does not do it ... the also need to be maintained hence tests need to be integrated in the development process in the first place
[14:43] <jasnow> Example from another community: http://secretmustache.com/2013/03/mozillians-a-big-thank-you.html
[14:43] <roadmr> txwikinger-uds: agreed, that's why it needs to be an integral sales pitch, not just "add tests to your code *now* and you're done"
[14:43] <thomi> gema_: speaking as an "upstream" developer, I welcome any & all well written tests. *especially* if it finds a regression in my code :)
[14:44] <gema_> thomi: that sounds good :D
[14:44] <gema_> thomi: but you are a QA oriented upstream :)
[14:44] <thomi> gema_: yeah... true.
[14:44] <jasnow> Do you have a CI server to run your automated tests?
[14:44] <txwikinger-uds> rolling releases will only work with Agile practices and TDD
[14:44] <thomi> gema_: I still think most developers in OSS welcome contributions
[14:45] <commandoline_> thomi: +1
[14:46] <thomi> balloons: yes, exactly. We need to not waste this opportunity.
[14:48] <diwic> would a good idea be to approach upstreams with things such as "you know, you got five bad reviews in USC because your app crash when you do foo"
[14:48] <diwic> or launchpad bugs with a lot of people affected
[14:49] <diwic> etc
[14:49] <commandoline_> diwic: I don't think so. Contributing tests to fix it is positive, just saying it is negative I think.
[14:49] <diwic> commandoline_, well, you need to say it in the right way of course
[14:50] <commandoline_> diwic: if done carefully, it can be helpful, yes :)
[14:50] <diwic> commandoline_, I'm just elaborating on the is quality == testing topic, and one indication of quality in broader terms is what people complain about in launchpad and USC
[14:51] <diwic> commandoline_, you can also approach upstream and relay a thanks from the users as given on USC reviews
[14:52] <commandoline_> diwic: ok, I agree that passing the info on is useful for the upstreams. Just reacted in the first place because it sounded a bit harsh then.
[14:52] <diwic> commandoline_, to balance the negative
[14:52] <SergioMeneses> you can put it as TODO
[14:53] <diwic> commandoline_, certainly.
[14:55] <jasnow> yes
[14:55] <thomi> o/
[14:55] <SergioMeneses> bye
[14:55] <quesh> bye
[14:56] <dragonfly> hi
[14:57] <jpickett> hi dragonfly
[14:58] <dholbach> who else wants to be part of this hangout?
[14:58] <cm-t_phone> hi... h
[14:58] <freeflying> dholbach: I want try, but not sure if it works here
[14:59] <dragonfly> so what is going on
[14:59] <cm-t_phone> i had issu with connexion.. wanted to ask about checkbox (cf pad)
[15:02] <freeflying> ypwong: hi
[15:02]  * slangasek waves
[15:02] <xnox> dholbach: I am here on irc only. All kylin patches for ubiquity have been merged. We still didn't work out how to provide/presseed default timezone / skip that step. That's it from my side.
[15:03] <xnox> not sure about other packages.
[15:03] <xnox> if there is / isn't something outstanding.
[15:03] <dholbach> xnox, Ok - I'll add it to the notes as an agenda item
[15:04] <adam8157> no youtube live?
[15:04] <slangasek> adam8157: there is; refresh the page?
[15:05] <SergioMeneses> sure!
[15:05] <adam8157> oh, I see ypwong  :)
[15:06] <slangasek> ypwong: audio still seems very choppy; could you turn down the bandwidth setting on your side?
[15:06] <paulliu> Is there bandwidth problem?
[15:07] <adam8157> google hangout is blocked in China, and vpn is not very stable, sigh
[15:09] <dholbach> ypwong, maybe you can check the hangout settings to use something like "low bandwidth settings"?
[15:10] <slangasek> dholbach: well, as ypwong has just fallen off IRC, perhaps you can repeat this suggestion to him on the hangout :)
[15:12] <slangasek> dholbach: it's the slider that looks like a cell phone signal strength indicator
[15:12] <dholbach> slangasek, ah great
[15:13] <dholbach> ypwong, how can we help? :)
[15:14] <ypwong> ok
[15:14] <paulliu> dholbach: He said you dropped.
[15:14] <ypwong> it's slow
[15:14] <slangasek> ypwong: if you turn down your bandwidth setting in the hangout client, it should be better for you
[15:14] <dholbach> so you said you have a design and a website - what are the next steps - how can we help?
[15:14] <ypwong> slangasek, how to do that?
[15:14] <slangasek> ypwong: the "cell phone signal strength indicator" looking thing
[15:14] <freeflyi1g> ypwong: upper right
[15:15] <dholbach> see the button on http://vsee.com/blog/google-hangouts-low-bandwith-video-chat/
[15:16] <dholbach> as slangasek said like a cellphone signal indicator
[15:17] <jzheng> ypwong, what the help need?
[15:18] <dholbach> anyone else who can explain what needs to be done in terms of the website?
[15:18] <dholbach> or the forums?
[15:18] <jzheng> dholbach, I am asking ypwong
[15:18] <dholbach> I'm happy to put you in touch with the LoCo Community who help set up website/forums/mailing lists and all kinds of things
[15:18] <freeflyi1g> dholbach: I guess partly they wanna share the experience about build the community, and also wanna get some feedback/comments
[15:18] <dholbach> many other teams have their infrastructure set up through them
[15:19] <dholbach> freeflyi1g, I don't know - would it help if the two of us would try to go through the agenda?
[15:19] <dholbach> the hangout problems make this discussion a bit hard
[15:19] <ypwong> dholbach, jonaszhang is typing
[15:19] <dholbach> but I'd like to help out and adresse a few of them
[15:19] <JackYu> hi
[15:19] <freeflyi1g> dholbach: maybe we can switch to irc
[15:20] <KylinJonas>  so can you give us some advice about the layout of the forum?
 i think the sections of the forum of UbuntuKylin should reflect concerns of Chinese users.
[15:21] <freeflyi1g> dholbach: I can try
[15:21] <dholbach> freeflyi1g, cool
[15:23] <JackYu> yes, maybe the community should both reflect the concerns of Chinese users and the Ubuntu style.
[15:25] <dholbach> JackYu, yes - maybe we have other chinese forums, or even ubuntu related chinese forums we could look at?
[15:26] <JackYu> yes, I agree.
[15:26] <dholbach> great
[15:27] <maclin> maybe, firstly we need to setup seperate section in other chinese forum for ubuntukylin?
[15:28] <KylinJonas> because culture difference and language issue, it is a little difficult for Chinese beginner to start to contribute, so we want translate some manuals and guide about Ubuntu and Launchpad
[15:31] <dholbach> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/
[15:31] <dholbach> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-packaging-guide/
[15:32] <SergioMeneses> dholbach, and we have videos in others languages as well
[15:32] <raywang> if ubuntukylin is for computer beginners, I wonder if it's worth of having a investigation to see what's the barriers,  e.g.   online banking, integration of online e-shopping payment plugins   etc etc
[15:36] <KylinJonas> yes, we have discuss the possibility of online banking, in spite of technique it need government certification.
[15:36] <JackYu> yes, an investigation is required.
[15:39] <maclin> Will the coming release schedule point be kept,such as the  beta1release in 14th March ?
[15:41] <KylinJonas> no matter ubuntu release change to rolling or not, ubuntukylin will release its 13.04
[15:41] <slangasek> so, there's nothing in the proposed rolling release change that would prevent having a beta release
[15:43] <JackYu> ok , thank you
[15:43] <raywang> thanks dholbach
[15:43] <maclin> ok,thanks  slangasek
[15:43] <dholbach> :)
[15:44] <dholbach> and please give me your email addresses :)
[15:44] <slangasek> 谢谢，大家 ：）
[15:45] <dholbach> raywang, KylinJonas, JackYu, ypwong: do you want to be part of the discussions as well? can you give me your email addresses in a private message too?
[15:46] <raywang> dholbach, no, that's fine :)
[15:46] <dholbach> raywang, ok :)
[15:47] <KylinJonas> dholbach<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:47] <dholbach> thanks KylinJonas
[15:53] <dholbach> who wants to be part of this discussion? happy to give you the link
[15:54] <JackYu> Jack Yu
[15:54] <maclin> maclin
[15:55] <dholbach> we still have 5 minutes :)
[15:56] <dholbach> freeflyi1g, can you or somebody else lead this discussion? I'm not going to be of any help here
[15:56] <dholbach> I have no ideas about input methods :-(
[15:57] <freeflyi1g> dholbach: sure, don't worry :)
[15:57] <dholbach> GunnarHj, do you want to be invited to the hangout too?
[15:57] <GunnarHj> dholbach: Not needed, I think. Can just as well contribute here.
[15:58] <dholbach> just wanted to make sure we have everybody in the hangout who wants to participate
[15:58] <dholbach> we still have lots of open slots :)
[15:58] <maclin> the network is not so good
[15:58] <dholbach> maybe it helps to turn off the video
[15:58] <dholbach> I had to do it before when the network was bad - it sometimes helped
[15:59] <JackYu> yes, i turn off
[16:00] <dholbach> does the session video work for everyone? GunnarHj maybe?
[16:01] <GunnarHj> Works fine for me.
[16:01] <dholbach> perfect
[16:01] <dholbach> thanks
[16:01] <dholbach> or as slangasek said earlier "谢谢" :)
[16:02] <jzheng> ypwong, the sound still works bad
[16:02] <jzheng> ypwong, we can hear lots of voice from your side
[16:03] <dholbach> can anyone else maybe start the session?
[16:03] <dholbach> I'm happy to read out the notes on the pad
[16:03] <jzheng> ypwong, JackYu, KylinJonas, maybe mute yourself and unmute to speak?
[16:03] <dholbach> but I'm not sure how much help that's going to be :)
[16:03] <JackYu> sure
[16:03] <ypwong> jzheng, yes we're already doing that
[16:07] <GunnarHj> The choice between ibus and fcitx is probably not so important in 13.04. In 13.04 we will use im-config as an IM configuration tool, and the user can select among installed IM frameworks from Language Support.
[16:07] <GunnarHj> Going forward may be more complicated due to the GNOME integration of xkb and IM.
[16:07] <SergioMeneses>  there is a delay or something
[16:08] <jzheng> GunnarHj, I think we are not going with GNOME anymore :)
[16:08] <GunnarHj> jzheng: What??
[16:08] <jzheng> GunnarHj, Mir and Unity Next
[16:08] <GunnarHj> jzheng: Ok...
[16:08] <jzheng> GunnarHj, :)
[16:10] <KylinJonas> in the future ubuntu will use mir as display server, but user must wait until 14.04 at least
[16:12] <GunnarHj> language-selector contains an IM framework selector. As long as fcitx is installed, that option will appear and can be selected.
[16:14] <dholbach> do we have a good contact to the upstream developers of fcitx?
[16:15] <freeflyi1g> dholbach: yes, and also well maintained in Debian/Ubuntu
[16:15] <dholbach> it's just a general question - something we generally consider when making a package default
[16:15] <dholbach> perfect
[16:15] <dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fcitx also looks like there's really few bugs
[16:15] <dholbach> not sure if that says much, just thought I'd point it out
[16:16] <GunnarHj> We should be aware of that ibus has been shipped for many cycles by default - fcitx has not.
[16:16] <freeflyi1g> dholbach: noted
[16:16] <freeflyi1g> GunnarHj: good point
[16:18] <JackYu> yes, as we described at the blueprint, Kubuntu team is also doing the evaluation on ibus vs. fcitx
[16:18] <dholbach> any more questions? concerns? ideas?
[16:18] <dholbach> is this something which should be generally considered for Ubuntu? have their been requests to replace the default in Ubuntu?
[16:18] <JackYu> but no conclusion could be found.
[16:19] <paulliu> how about Japanese/Korean?
[16:19] <JackYu> dholbach: yes, when we apply the flavor, some TB members ask the same question.
[16:20] <GunnarHj> How about shipping both ibus and fxitx? (One can be the default, of course.)
[16:20] <freeflyi1g> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5590776/
[16:20] <JackYu> paulliu: UbuntuKylin mainly consider
[16:20] <JackYu> Chinese input
[16:21] <freeflyi1g> paulliu: through m17n, a lot of language can be supported, and also IME like anthy has been ported to fcitx also
[16:21] <paulliu> JackYu: Yeah.. I cound understand. But the question is why Kubuntu team is consindering fcitx replacing ibus?
[16:21] <JackYu> yes. I am also wondering...
[16:21] <paulliu> freeflyi1g: no anthy..
[16:21] <GunnarHj> As far as I know, im-config is capable of handling it without conflicts.
[16:22] <JackYu>  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-kubuntu-development
[16:22] <maclin> maybe fcitx provide good support for KDE
[16:23] <JackYu> GunnarHj: that's great
[16:23] <freeflyi1g> paulliu: https://code.google.com/p/fcitx/ FYI, a lot of ime has been ported
[16:23] <maclin> it also provide some KDE configuration interface
[16:23] <Riddell> we're going with ibus for raring
[16:23] <Riddell> in Kubuntu ⇈
[16:23] <paulliu> JackYu: ok.. I heard.
[16:23] <Riddell> but we did look at fcitx for the reasons mentioned
[16:24] <JackYu> Riddell: so you decision is ibus?
[16:25] <Riddell> JackYu: yes, a chap called Quintasan investiagted and decided on that
[16:25] <Riddell> it's what the rest of ubuntu uses
[16:25] <Riddell> and works with Korean and Japaese
[16:25] <Riddell> and since he got ibus working fine with KDE Plasma no reason to change
[16:25] <freeflyi1g> theming support is also another advantage over ibus
[16:26] <freeflyi1g> Riddell: even with native kcm-comfig tool support? :D
[16:26] <Riddell> [00:10] <Quintasan> Generally ibus has poor integration
[16:26] <Riddell> [00:11] <Quintasan> Fcitx has better KDE integration but the version Debian has is not feature complete yet
[16:27] <dholbach> Riddell, do we know which feature is missing or if there's a bug open about it?
[16:27] <freeflyi1g> Riddell: this is not true  kde-config-fcitx - KDE configuration module for Fcitx
[16:27] <Riddell> freeflyi1g: which is not true?
[16:27] <freeflyi1g> 00:26 < Riddell> [00:11] <Quintasan> Fcitx has better KDE integration but the version Debian has is not feature complete ye
[16:27] <Riddell> oh debian not feature complete yet
[16:27] <GunnarHj> The standard Ubuntu distro will also go for ibus in 13.04, AFAIK.
[16:27] <Riddell> freeflyi1g: I don't think there is any ibus config in KDE
[16:28] <Riddell> so fcitx wins there
[16:28] <Riddell> but as long as installing the language pack sets it up then you're good
[16:28] <JackYu> Riddell: did you investigate the newest version of fctix?
[16:28] <freeflyi1g> Riddell: defintely, and ibus still has a lot of python code, performance lose there too
[16:28] <maclin> fcitx has updated to latest version now in 13.04 sources
[16:29] <Riddell> JackYu: I don't know what version he looked at, was about a month ago
[16:29] <freeflyi1g> Riddell: its very worth to give it a try in kubuntu too
[16:30] <Riddell> freeflyi1g: what about the poor Koreans and Japanese?
[16:30] <JackYu> Riddell: got it. so maybe we could discuss further with Quintasan.
[16:31] <Riddell> JackYu: he's around lots in #kubuntu-devel (just not today alas)
[16:31] <dholbach> would it make sense to switch to fcitx in ubuntu kylin for now and then see what the feedback is like when you ask for people to test it some time before the release?
[16:31] <dholbach> and make the kubuntu discussion a separate thing?
[16:31] <GunnarHj> I'm not an IM user, but I can't help thinking that shipping both and make them easily available to the Chinese users ought to be a good idea.
[16:31] <ypwong> dholbach, +1
[16:32] <Riddell> GunnarHj: that's not very ubuntu
[16:32] <JackYu> Riddell: thanks. Would you please give his email address via private channel?
[16:32] <freeflyi1g> Riddell: upstream has them in place
[16:32] <GunnarHj> Riddell: Let's make it ubuntu, then. ;-)
[16:33] <jzheng> just for your reference, fcitx has anthy which is for Japanese, see https://github.com/fcitx/fcitx-anthy
[16:33] <maclin> dholbach, we have tested fcitx 4.2.6 and it worked well for users
[16:33] <ypwong> Riddell, then probably to ship fcitx and if user wants they can always install with apt-get
[16:33] <freeflyi1g> Riddell: btw, not trying to convince you to adopt it, just wanna let it you know the status
[16:33] <KylinJonas> I think that shipping both is the best solution to this topic.
[16:33] <dholbach> are there any open questions? is fcitx the default in ubuntu kylin already?
[16:34] <ypwong> dholbach, guess this is the decision? KylinJonas, JackYu?
[16:34] <freeflyi1g> fcitx-anthy-0.1.1.tar.xz fcitx-chewing-0.1.3.tar.xz
[16:34] <KylinJonas> ubuntukylin want to take fcitx as default
[16:35] <GunnarHj> KylinJonas: Make fcitx default is compatible with shipping both.
[16:36] <KylinJonas> yes, let user decide which to use, i think
[16:36] <Riddell> let user decide is very un-ubuntu
[16:36] <maclin> dholbach: yes, we are also make more test to evaluate the effect of fcitx
[16:36] <paulliu> Qt Immodule supports so anything using Qt would have less problems..
[16:37] <JackYu> Riddell: ....
[16:37] <paulliu> For phones, the problem is the onscreen keyboard have to talk to either input-method framework. Or you only get English onscreen keyboard.
[16:38] <paulliu> I have no detailed actually.
[16:38] <ypwong> paulliu, so any work about that you're aware of now?
[16:38] <freeflyi1g> paulliu: fcitx has a virt keyboard
[16:38] <ypwong> ok :)
[16:41] <KylinJonas> thank you very much! I think time is the best judger : )
[16:42] <GunnarHj> Thanks all!
[16:42] <JackYu> Thanks!
[16:42] <freeflyi1g> paulliu: https://github.com/fcitx/developer-handbook you may share this with the guy you mentioned
[16:44] <maclin> thanks
[18:12] <dholbach> ok, updated the page - those of you who marked yourselves as "participation essential" should have a link to "join the hangout"
[18:12] <dholbach> (you might have to reload)
[18:12] <dholbach> I can give you the hangout links as well too if you like
[18:26] <jasnow_> here is info from Debian project: http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/2013/05/index.en.html#gsoc
[18:31] <jasnow_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleSoC2012
[18:32] <jasnow_> http://wiki.opencog.org/w/GSoC_2012:_Packages_for_Ubuntu_(and_other_Unix-like_systems)_and_Cygwin_port
[18:36] <dholbach> http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/events/google/gsoc2013
[18:36] <jasnow_> See last url for timeline
[18:37] <jasnow_> March 28 is org dealine
[18:37] <jasnow_> http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/events/google/gsoc2013
[18:37] <jasnow_> is the timeline
[18:50] <nxvl> or even with the little experience they have the sign up for a proyect bigger that they can handle
[18:50] <nxvl> as in even pitti won't be able to do it in one summer
[18:51] <philipballew> good point nxvl
[18:51] <nxvl> or even mentors first
[18:51] <nxvl> that's how the google summer of code does it
[18:52] <nxvl> they have mentors that propose projects and THEN they accept students proposals
[18:52] <nxvl> We can make LoCo's sign up for going to the universities and get people
[18:52] <nxvl> that should work
[18:52] <nxvl> we have a worldwide force that we can use for this
[18:53] <nxvl> and have a LoCo universities tour going here and there asing for students to sign up
[18:53] <nxvl> dholbach: just let me into the hangout
[18:53] <philipballew> thats actually pretty impressive nxvl
[19:01] <fisch246> i can see
[19:01] <theDoctor> I can see you
[19:02] <matzipan_> i can't :/
[19:02] <netcurli> hello
[19:02] <fisch246> o/ jono
[19:02] <netcurli> I can also see you
[19:02] <theDoctor> Yes it is
[19:02] <netcurli> :D
[19:02] <ptl> YAY! Will we finally get a response from the Phoronix guys about wayland non-downsides???
[19:03] <ptl> this meeting has super cow powers!
[19:03] <bobthebobber> invite please
[19:04] <snwh> QUESTION: do you think virtual-UDS went well? :)
[19:04] <jasnow> what is the relationship between Ubuntu and Rails (Ruby-on-Rails) project?
[19:04] <matzipan_> snwh: i think it went glorious
[19:04] <snwh> matzipan_ I agree
[19:04]  * popey tickles d0od|UDS
[19:05] <zebaszp> jono!
[19:05] <UbuPhillup> hi
[19:05] <matzipan_> but it's not UDS anymore, it's just a meeting
[19:05] <matzipan_> so it should be UDM
[19:05] <zebaszp> I came to this room with one specific purpose: asking if jono will play the guitar
[19:06] <matzipan_> and keep UDS as a real summit at LTS maybe?
[19:06] <jono> get your questions in :-)
[19:06] <jono> add them with QUESTION:
[19:06] <jono> and then we can pick them out
[19:06] <nxvl> rickspencer3: mumble
[19:07] <zebaszp> jono, I'm not watching the stream, I'm at client-1, but I wanted to know if you'll play the guitar :P
[19:07] <zebaszp> just answer yes or now in the chatroom and I'll be on my way :P
[19:07] <niemeyer> Oh yeah.. woohay videos
[19:08] <bobthebobber> Question: some vids of todays UDS videos are now listed as private only.
[19:08] <bobthebobber> is this intended?
[19:08] <matzipan_> QUESTION: virtual UDS enabled me to get a more interesting view of Ubuntu and I want to start contributing, how should I start doing that?
[19:08]  * AlanBell observes that jcastro does not have his IRC nick in the lower third
[19:08] <niemeyer> jcastro: Plenaries are the golden case for On Air G+
[19:08] <bobthebobber> matzipan_: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/get-involved
[19:09] <bobthebobber> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21672/community-1303-quality-growth/
[19:09] <bobthebobber> the video is now removed
[19:09] <d0od|UDS> Is this a general Q&A or UDs-specific?
[19:09] <jcastro> bobthebobber: that was your session right? the quality growth one? Can you check the perms on your video?
[19:09] <popey> bobthebobber: sometimes the videos had to be restarted
[19:09] <ptl> QUESTION: in the phoronix response to canonical, they said the two supposed downsides of wayland (input handling/routing and "priviledged" shell) are simply untrue. Will Canonical have further debates with them? If other distros adopt wayland, how do you think you can maintain compatibility with differing Linux desktop strategies?
[19:10] <jcastro> bobthebobber: sorry I meant balloons not you
[19:10] <bobthebobber> jcastro: no problem
[19:10] <popey> so possibly the one linked from summit is the broken video, but there may be another
[19:10] <balloons> jcastro, ?
[19:10] <Lennart__> QUESTION: What is the deal with MIR and Ubuntu moving away from Wayland?
[19:10] <niemeyer> Question: Why are you sad, Jono!?  What can we do for you?  You're our rock!  Don't be sad!
[19:10] <jcastro> balloons: the video for community-1303-quality-growth/
[19:10] <popey> balloons: see what bobthebobber said
[19:11] <balloons> jcastro, ahh.. I'll fix
[19:11] <gaara> I've been working on NFC on android quite a bit, any idea who i could be of use to Ubuntu?
[19:11] <airurando> QUESTION: What is the likely timeframe for a decision regarding the rolling release?
[19:12] <pgraner> jono, also check the pad
[19:12] <balloons> kk.. fixed
[19:12] <balloons> sorry bobthebobber jcastro .. thanks for noticing
[19:12] <bobthebobber> Question: What is the status and bug #1
[19:12] <udsbotu> Ubuntu bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 - Assigned to Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl)
[19:12] <pgraner> jono, below the coew
[19:12] <pgraner> cow
[19:12] <dpm-desktop_> o/
[19:12] <nxvl> QUESTION: are you going to shave that beard soon?
[19:13] <zorman2000> QUESTION: I would like to know your personal opinion of Canonical writing a new DS rather than adopting Wayland. I have seen lots of opinions about this, and would like to know your own, as the community manager of Ubuntu.
[19:13] <AlanBell> QUESTION: how do big transitions happen in rolling releases?
[19:13] <jcastro> (stand by on the Mir questions guys, the Mir guy is on his way!)
[19:13] <dpm-desktop_> yes, he's gone
[19:13] <gaara> hes gone
[19:14] <dpm-desktop_> Thomas kicked him I think :)
[19:14] <bobthebobber> AlanBell: im guessing they dont, RR would be daily and monthly builds
[19:14] <theDoctor> It's a back screen where he was
[19:14] <Lennart__> why does he leave, when it gets interesting? *grml*
[19:14] <AlanBell> QUESTION: When are wobbly windows going to be available in Mir?
[19:15] <d0od|UDS> AlanBell: EXCELLENT QUESTION SIR
[19:15] <d0od|UDS> :P
[19:15] <zorman2000> AlanBell, funny, but valid question
[19:15] <jcastro> AlanBell: don't worry, all the unmaintained compiz plugins will likely still continue to be unmaintained. :)
[19:15] <niemeyer> AlanBell: Wobbly Windows needs a VM to run in Ubuntu
[19:16] <AlanBell> yeah, I kind of want to know about the bling plan for mir
[19:16] <fisch246> rickspencer3: o/ welcome back
[19:16] <rickspencer3_> thanks fisch246
[19:16] <rickspencer3_> I guess my internet provider didn't want to hear what I had to say ;)
[19:16] <AlanBell> QUESTION: will I be able to run Virtualbox full screen in Mir? Will the input handling stop the HUD stealing my alt key?
[19:17] <zorman2000> AlanBell: I guess, from what I have read, that their bling plans are not on Mir, but on Unity. Mir is just a huge foundation for Unity to do whatever they want it to do.
[19:17] <UbuPhillup> Deutschland ;)
[19:17] <AlanBell> QUESTION: Do you think these technology introductions are having a net positive effect on commuity size?
[19:18] <ptl> tvoss: thank you very much for the comprehensive answer!
[19:19] <d0od|UDS> QUESTION: There seems to be a growing unease with the 'inner' Ubuntu Community about recent changes and decisions (membership reneges, vocal criticisms on planet, etc). What is your response as community manager to the claim that 'the ubuntu community' has irreparably changed?
[19:20] <dylan-m> QUESTION: Are Unity and Ubuntu Touch ready for _large_ contributions from community members who don't work for Canonical? For example, I am wondering about the feasibility of a (~three month) gsoc project with Unity or its friends.
[19:20] <niemeyer> I knew it..
[19:20] <niemeyer> rickspencer3: ;)
[19:21] <ptl> QUESTION: there was a release of Ubuntu (desktop) for Nexus 7 last year (that I used) and now there is Ubuntu Touch, something completely different. Will desktop Ubuntu on the Nexus 7 continue to be developed, or can it be considered abandoned?
[19:22] <johangm90> hi
[19:22] <AlanBell> QUESTION: will 13.04 be released?
[19:22] <UbuPhillup> QUESTION :Have Canonical enough man power to do all these: Mir, phone ...
[19:22] <theDoctor> QUESTION: Do you do these Q and A's the same time every week?
[19:22] <gaara> QUESTION: Is anyone working on the NFC framework of the OS? I've worked extensively on NFC on android but i'd like to see where i can help in Ubuntu Touch
[19:23] <jcastro> gaara: oooh.
[19:24] <jcastro> gaara: you might want to find rsalveti on #ubuntu-touch
[19:24] <gaara> thanks jcastro
[19:24] <krabador> Question: many web sources, immediately after the ubuntu-touch release of the images, reported that "canonical works with xda community" only because some simply xda user released some port of ubuntu-touch following the porting guide on the wiki.  I kinda thought tvoss answered it better, but I'm happy to take another crack at it
[19:26] <krabador> jcastro, not... i wan't here ...
[19:26] <fisch246> rickspencer3: "How will the rolling releases mean to the production of Mir?"
[19:26] <Lennart__> QUESTION: In what way didn't Wayland fit your requirements and why can't you contribute to Wayland to make it fit your needs?
[19:26] <rickspencer3> gotcha
[19:26] <krabador> jcastro, where i can whatch the stream you said ?
[19:27] <jcastro> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21671/cloud-keynote-with-robbie-williamson/
[19:27] <jcastro> 15 minutes in or so
[19:27] <krabador> jcastro, thanx
[19:27] <ptl> Lennart__: tvoss explained it a few minutes earlier
[19:27] <d0od|UDS> QUESTION: Has Canonical already begun discussions with GPU vendors on supporting Mir?
[19:27] <ptl> Lennart__: when answering my question..
[19:29] <pgraner> rickspencer3, don't forget the autopkg tests as well in -proposed
[19:31] <pgraner> Existing autopkg test coverage: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Raring/view/AutoPkgTest/
[19:37] <Jim99> Jono, are apps such as Twitter and FaceCrook removable from Ubuntu touch?
[19:41] <ptl> jono: thanks!
[19:42] <niemeyer> Knowing what was going behind the scene, I have to say I can't see much to sweat about regarding mir. It's a tricky project, and some people were trying to figure things out.. the decision to take it more seriously was made *now*, and that's why an announcement was made and why the plan is being opened up.
[19:43] <niemeyer> It's not like there's a finished project that is going in Ubuntu tomorrow.
[19:44] <UbuPhillup> okey thnkx
[19:44] <d0od> QUESTION: Would it be fair to say you're moving to a model where Canonical (and not the community) make the platform, and the community makes the applications which use the platform?
[19:46] <phiphi_> QUESTION: When will the official websites be available in other languages?
[19:46] <jcastro> no ubuntu-server questions? boooo!!!
[19:46] <fisch246> anyone know how to manually remove a package?
[19:47] <fisch246> installed spotweb, but it got corrupted on install... now any sort of uninstall procedure is broken.
[19:47] <UbuPhillup> phiphi_: very good question i would know it too
[19:47] <zebaszp> QUESTION: how's the baby? :D
[19:48] <AlanBell> phiphi_: press releases were available in Spanish and Mandarin
[19:48] <AlanBell> phiphi_: I suspect that is of significance
[19:48] <popey> QUESTION: Jono, do you miss not getting CDs as presents at this UDS? Still Whamming?
[19:49] <phiphi_> AlanBell: I think of the main landing page, the downloads and info pages linking to help pages (by LoCos like ubuntuusers.de)
[19:49] <davidaf> QUESTION: We know Canonical tries hard to balance company interests with *Ubuntu* community interests. That said some members of Ubuntu community are interested in the health of the wider *Linux* community. Is canonical interested in the health of the wider Linux community or is enought for Canonical to have strong Ubuntu community?
[19:50] <UbuPhillup> the german ubuntuusers are very great like it
[19:50] <niemeyer> d0od: That's not the case.. the platform is very much done by the community.. there is a huge number of projects that are at the heart of Ubuntu that are not made by Canonical. Some of those pieces that Canonical has to invest in directly are the things that are on the path for the world domination of Ubuntu that are simply unavailable, and that need a significant volume of immediate work.
[19:50] <cjohnston> I'm here!
[19:50] <niemeyer> cjohnston: Welcome :)
[19:50] <fisch246> brought my question to the support channel
[19:50] <zebaszp> QUESTION: Nvidia?
[19:51] <zebaszp> (that's the question, no other words are needed)
[19:51] <UbuPhillup> zebaszp: ;)
[19:52] <jcastro> hah
[19:52] <FlyingPig> zebaszp: According to this: http://samohtv.wordpress.com/2013/03/04/mir-an-outpost-envisioned-as-a-new-home/ yes
[19:52] <redtape-renegade> QUESTION: Where is the crowdfund address for Sophie's Pony ?? HELP POPEY NOW !!
[19:52] <phiphi_> QUESTION: How much big news and disruptions are still in the sleeve? Will it be quieter the rest of the year?
[19:53] <jjed_> second phiphi's question
[19:53] <zebaszp> oh dear...really? that's AWESOME!
[19:53] <matzipan_> QUESTION: is there any support for organizing a hackathon?
[19:53] <AlanBell> QUESTION: is talking to GPU vendors like this? http://regmedia.co.uk/2012/06/18/torvalds_bird.jpg
[19:53] <niemeyer> LOL
[19:53] <krafty> hi jono ;)
[19:53] <Jim99> Jono, are apps such as Twitter and FaceCrook removable from Ubuntu touch?
[19:54] <krabador> Question: Will you Mr. Bacon, cut your beard?
[19:54] <zebaszp> krabador, his beard is awesome
[19:54] <AlanBell> krabador: that question was answered earlier, "no"
[19:54] <ptl> GPU is a very delicate aspect in the ARM world
[19:55] <zebaszp> don't diss the beard
[19:55] <krabador> zebaszp, AlanBell :)
[19:55] <ptl> but I think it's easier to have them open-source their drivers than NVIDIA
[19:55] <popey> hah
[19:56] <zebaszp> QUESTION: is Mir getting (more) support than Wayland from Nvidia? (also, how did you not understand that?)
[19:56] <cjohnston> QUESTION: jono why didn't you cook us all bbq?
[19:56] <d0od> conversely, i'm looking forward to a break! :P
[19:56] <hegemon8> So what You saying Jono, You trying to fill the gap between free creating software, as it is now in linux with directed developing to achive goals ubuntu puts as first for platform to finish?
[19:56] <cjohnston> We have given Joey a more than full time job over the last 1.5 weeks jono, he might want a break
[19:56] <ptl> QUESTION: everybody says nvidia, but in ARM the MALI drivers are very important. Are you talking with them for open-sourcing the remaining part of their drivers? (kernel is open-source, x11 driver is closed)
[19:56] <balloons> matzipan_, the quality team likes to do some hackathons around testing
[19:57] <jcastro> matzipan_: check this out: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams
[19:57] <balloons> matzipan_, for example https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/AutomatedTesting/Hackfest
[19:57] <zebaszp> QUESTION: we want guitar! also, I lied, no question
[19:57] <snwh> QUESTION: cake or death?
[19:57] <Bubba> perfermance increases with MIR???
[19:57] <Jim99> Jono, are apps such as Twitter and FaceCrook removable from Ubuntu touch?
[19:57] <niemeyer> zebaszp: Aw.. will miss that.. :-(
[19:58] <krabador> Question: Will ubuntu on arm platfom, replace x86 development ?
[19:58] <beardofomens> QUESTION: do you think that ppl should write apps solely for Ubuntu to take advantage of ubuntu-specific features?
[19:58] <balloons> QUESTION: rickspencer3 favorite color red?
[19:58] <niemeyer> krabador: No :)
[19:58] <cjohnston> jono: QUESTION: what about allstars? your not doing to do allstars for us?
[19:58] <fkol_k4> Canonical is making lots of stuff simultaneously. How bad will a possible failure (like in mir for example) for Ubuntu?
[19:59] <niemeyer> fkol_k4: A failure in mir means.. nothing changes? :-)
[19:59] <jsjgruber-uds> QUESTION: Will there be some physical UDS's in the future so people can become friends more easily?
[19:59] <fisch246> QUESTION: any plans for other ARM devices?
[19:59] <beardofomens> Jim99: prefix your question with QUESTION
[19:59] <balloons> it's the famous red wall rickspencer3
[19:59] <balloons> <3
[19:59] <rickspencer3> the wall we all dread to see
[19:59] <UbuPhillup> ;)
[19:59] <niemeyer> Haha
[19:59] <balloons> you know it's serious when we see the wall
[20:00] <niemeyer> Missed that.. too bad
[20:00] <hegemon8> QUESTION: So what You saying Jono, You trying to fill the gap between free creating software, as it is now in linux with directed developing to achive goals ubuntu puts as first for platform to finish?
[20:00] <UbuPhillup> mixed
[20:00] <hegemon8> it is...
[20:01] <krabador> Last Question : ubuntu facilitate a possible coexistence with other graphical environments, if any ?
[20:01] <matzipan_> balloons: i'm studying at the University of York and I was asking the hackathon question because we might want to facilitate people to participate in such a hackathon
[20:01] <krabador> on ubuntu touch i mean
[20:01] <AlanBell> o/ jono
[20:01] <niemeyer> We are trying to achieve Ubuntu goals, definitely. :-)
[20:01] <fisch246> o/
[20:01] <hegemon8> enjoy Jono :)
[20:01] <zebaszp> QUESTION: does your sandwich have bacon, jono?
[20:01] <matzipan_> lol
[20:01] <fisch246> lol
[20:01] <balloons> matzipan_, ohh brillant. Yea, if doing QA work like running or writing tests is up your alley, let me know
[20:02] <UbuPhillup> lol
[20:02] <krabador> thanx to you
[20:02] <netcurli> thank you
[20:02] <UbuPhillup> by
[20:02] <UbuPhillup> thankx
[20:02] <ptl> thanksssss
[20:02] <zebaszp> bless your beard, jono
[20:02] <clel> bye
[20:02] <hegemon8> bye
[20:02] <airurando> thanks
[20:02] <redtape-renegade> MM THAT WENT WELL .. ONLY GOT LAST 5 MINS ..
[20:03] <redtape-renegade> soz 4 caps.
[20:03] <matzipan_> balloons: well, it would probably be interesting to have multiple themed hackathons... like QA/testing, UI, backend ...
[20:03] <UbuPhillup> nice Q and A
[20:03] <zebaszp> I must say, vUDS is awesome
[20:04] <zebaszp> I could never attend an actual UDS, living in Argentina and all
[20:04] <UbuPhillup> zebaszp: ohh year !!
[20:04] <jcastro> zebaszp: that's awesome to hear, cheers.
[20:05] <matzipan_> balloons: is there any way I could probably be updated with any future hackathons going?
[20:05] <zebaszp> well, I'm off
[20:05] <balloons> matzipan_, yes certainly.. The global jam jcastro pointed you to is exactly that
[20:05] <zebaszp> have a good one, everyone
[20:05] <balloons> it was this past weekend :-)
[20:06] <zebaszp> cheers to jono, jcastro and all the crew
[20:06] <jono> thanks!
[20:07] <zebaszp> (I'm sorry, I have a hard time remembering irc nicks...)
[20:07] <matzipan_> oh, I see, ubuntu event planners
[20:07] <zebaszp> enjoy your sandwich! I think I might have one myself
[20:08] <fisch246> the expression of jono when UDS is finally over and done with. https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/601220_425647637517666_997155308_n.jpg
[20:09] <matzipan_> balloons, jcastro awesome! I shall ping you guys if I have any questions about this, is that okay?
[20:10] <balloons> matzipan_, yes.. https://launchpad.net/~nskaggs feel free to contact me anytme
[20:10] <redtape-renegade> Is there an Ubuntu TV meeting at the UDS ??
[20:12] <matzipan_> balloons: the date when this is going to happen is not entirely clear....
[20:12] <matzipan_> the testing jam
[20:12] <matzipan_> i mean
[20:18] <balloons> matzipan_, the global jam of testing, packaging, translations, etc, etc.. that was this weekend
[20:19] <balloons> it's once every 6 months I belive
[20:19] <balloons> as a team, we like to have hackathons together.. just meeting up on IRC and working on things.
[20:19] <matzipan_> hmmm.. well... september isn't precisely school term... so we can't really contribute to that
[20:20] <balloons> There's nothing scheduled right now persay for our next one. But I want to do one again soon
[20:20] <balloons> that's specific to us as a quality team.. working on automated and manual test writing
[20:20] <balloons> if you want to be informed about that, a good way specific to quality is to join the mailing list
[20:21] <balloons> as far as ubuntu itself goes, you can use the calendar
[20:21] <balloons> let me find the link :-)
[20:33] <matzipan_> balloons: any luck finding that link ? :D
[20:37] <redtape-renegade> Will if cjohnston has quit = it must be over ...
[20:46] <balloons> matzipan_, http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/fridge/
[20:46] <balloons> or simply http://fridge.ubuntu.com//calendars/
[23:58] <reed> i can hear you


[08:01] <mgz> morning!
[10:11] <m1sc> hi. remove-branch seems to work for local locations only. how do I remove a remote branch?
[10:19] <bob2> don't think bzr has that built in
[10:23] <mgz> m1sc: that works over a smart server in recent versions, but deletes the branch only, any repository is left existing
[10:40] <m1sc> mgz: smart http? I use bzr 2.5.1 on client side -- when trying "bzr remove-branch https+urllib://example.com/my/branch", it's doing http authentication but then tries to delete the branch locally.? (bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "/home/user/foo/https+urllib://example.com/my/branch".)
[10:42] <mgz> that's not smart.
[10:43] <mgz> m1sc: this is what works <http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1084259/>
[10:43] <jelmer> it tries the remove branch first then falls back to locally
[10:44] <mgz> (progress leakage there incidentially)
[10:45] <mgz> falling back to treating it like a filename when it has a scheme seems like a bad idea
[10:46] <mgz> m1sc: what you can do is just remove the directory via any other means
[10:48] <jelmer> mgz: yeah
[10:49] <m1sc> bob2, mgz, jelmer: thanks, will stick with ssh
[15:11] <ggherdov> hello. I know I can ask bazaar for all commits involving file FOOBAR.txt. Can I show all commit made by a specific developer, too ?
[15:19] <mgz> yup, see `bzr help log`
[15:20] <mgz> note the author(s)/committer distinction
[15:22] <mgz> but generally `bzr log -n0 -m "Your Name"` will be fine
[15:27] <ggherdov> mgz thanks
[15:57] <james_w> vila, hi, you around?
[15:57] <vila> james_w: yup
[15:58] <james_w> great
[15:58] <james_w> hi :-)
[15:58] <james_w> vila, what would be the best way of injecting the db configuration values in to the config stack during the tests?
[15:58] <james_w> currently I believe it uses the standard dbs, which isn't great for test isolation
[15:58] <james_w> I'm adding support for postgres to the test suite, so now we need to run against both
[15:58] <vila> err, no, I think it uses ones under self.test_dir
[15:59] <james_w> I don't want to be adding pkgimport.conf on the fly
[15:59] <james_w> aha!
[15:59]  * james_w tries to find that
[15:59] <vila> TestCaseWithConfig does that for you, at least it sets pi.base_dir
[16:00] <vila> now, I don't know postgres, but given the config you added for it it seems to be using a host:port to reach the db so I you can set that in the config and initialize the db itself
[16:00] <james_w> vila, what's "_set_store_content"
[16:01] <james_w> I mean, what's "store" in that context?
[16:01] <vila> a trick to add additional content in the config, there are examples...
[16:01] <vila> let me check
[16:01] <vila> store as in config store, a physical container, here, a file :)
[16:01] <james_w> ah, I see
[16:01] <james_w> but it's a "set all" interface, rather than an "append" interface?
[16:02] <vila> look into test_mass_import for how to add stuff
[16:02] <vila> just calling super()  then
[16:03] <vila> so each subclass can add what it needs
[16:03] <james_w> oh, hmm
[16:03] <james_w> ok
[16:03] <james_w> thanks
[16:04]  * james_w ponders moving this to fixtures
[17:49] <Wiz_KeeD> hey guys
[17:52] <lduros> hello, I have a bzr branch which I initialized with the source files from Firefox 12. Now, I made some changes to these files, and now there is a Firefox 13 with many many differences with both Firefox 12 or my own fork. My question is, what is the best way to merge all the changes from the files in Firefox 13, while keeping the changes in my own fork. I can see many ways to do that more or less efficiently with diff and bzr diff. But I'd like to know if the
[18:07] <lduros> so what I did is use bzr diff -r1 > diff.txt
[18:07] <lduros> which outputs all the difference with the current version with the first version in which the initial files were present
[18:08] <lduros> and now I'll try to apply it as a patch to the new set of files
[18:08] <lduros> does it make sense or is there a better way to do this with bzr and a special merge
[23:13] <lduros> hello, I asked a question earlier, got no answer, and thought maybe i'd ask it again
[23:14] <lduros> if you have upstream files, you create a branch with them
[23:14] <lduros> make changes to them,
[23:14] <lduros> and then the upstream releases a new version
[23:14] <lduros> what's the best way to merge those new changes from upstream while keeping your own changes
[23:14] <lduros> upstream does not use bzr by the way, i'm just using the tar
[23:16] <lduros> using bzr diff and then patch does the trick, but is there a more elegant way? :-)
[23:16] <lduros> or some documentation worth reading? :-)
[23:21] <lifeless> lduros: bzr import can import the tar
[23:21] <lifeless> lduros: have one branch representing upstream and one your work, import upstream onto the upstream branch, then merge that to your branch.
[23:28] <lduros> ah
[23:29] <lduros> ok, I see, I'll try this, thanks
[23:29] <lduros> looking into bzr import at the moment
[23:31] <lduros> lifeless: what you are describing is basically what's described in this page, minus the bzr import for the tar >> http://wiki.bazaar.canonical.com/TrackingUpstream -- correct?
[23:32] <lifeless> yes
[23:32] <lduros> ok cool
[23:32] <lduros> :-)


[08:27] <wgrant> cjwatson: O
[08:27] <wgrant> Bah
[08:27] <wgrant> cjwatson: https://code.launchpad.net/~wgrant/turnip/no-buildout/+merge/252692
[08:27] <wgrant> I've dropped buildout and hopefully made the non-buildout packaging a bit easier to use.
[08:28] <wgrant> setup_requires is approximately the worst thing in the world (it'll make setuptools talk to PyPI behind pip's back, even if you've disabled PyPI in pip), and the only way to work around that seems to be a ~/.pydistutils.cfg snippet.
[08:29] <wgrant> (we have a couple of our OpenStacky deps in LP patched to remove their setup_requires=['pbr'] for that reason)
[08:32] <wgrant> I swore not to get distracted by juju today.
[08:32] <wgrant> And instead got distracted by Python packaging.
[08:32] <wgrant> And didn't get anything actually finished.
[09:04] <blr> wgrant: hah, I'm not sure which of the two is more painful :)
[09:11] <cjwatson> wgrant: Have you tested that this works properly when doing "make deploy" in the charm from vivid?  I'd been somewhat careful about not adding pygit2 to requirements.txt to avoid problems there.
[09:15] <blr> cjwatson: should be ok, libgit2-21 is in vivid?
[09:19] <cjwatson> Well, consider if vivid upgrades to a newer version; my point isn't so much what vivid happens to have today, it's being independent of the deployment system
[09:20] <cjwatson> If w has libgit2-27, I don't want to end up in a dilemma about what version of pygit2 we can use because some of us are on vivid and some on w, say
[09:20] <blr> cjwatson: perhaps we should just be following trunk
[09:20] <cjwatson> That isn't my point
[09:20] <blr> is there a workflow for automating packaging from github?
[09:21] <cjwatson> My point is to make sure that things work regardless of what libgit2, or none, is on the system you're deploying from
[09:22] <cjwatson> The strategy I had in place was to install python-pygit2 from the LP PPA in the unit, and virtualenv --system-site-packages to make use of it, so that we can control that precisely without having to deal with pip
[09:22] <cjwatson> I want to check that adding it to requirements.txt doesn't disturb that
[09:22] <cjwatson> (It may not, because wgrant also added version bounds that I don't think I tried)
[09:23] <blr> always a little reluctant to use --system-site-packages, but that does sound sensible.
[09:24] <cjwatson> I think it's less of a problem with immutable or mostly immutable units
[09:24] <cjwatson> Then again I come from a distro background, so ...
[09:25] <blr> no, I think that's fair.
[09:26] <cjwatson> Anyhow, if wgrant has finished up then I'll try the charm in a bit
[09:27] <blr> just as buildout was starting to grow on me... :)
[09:28] <blr> assuming there isn't anything too braindead in commit/log api branch, I'll spend tomorrow on deployment/mojo
[09:31] <blr> right, bedtime. night cjwatson
[09:32] <cjwatson> Night!
[09:36] <wgrant> cjwatson: Yeah, the charm was the bit I wasn't completely sure about.
[09:36] <wgrant> I suspect that if we want to use requirements.txt with a Debian pygit2 we may end up in trouble, unless we match the dep versions exactly (which can be seen in my diff).
[09:37] <wgrant> I'm not sure which is more ugly.
[09:37] <wgrant> system-site-packages, or being tied to a particular libgit2
[09:37] <wgrant> Though in practice we're tied to a particular libgit2 anyway, since both it and pygit2 break API every release...
[09:39] <cjwatson> Right, well, the basic problem is that we can't install libgit2 from pip, so that's got to come from the system, and thus we have to go to special care to match it anyway
[09:40] <cjwatson> Let's see
[09:42] <cjwatson> wgrant: Nope
[09:42] <cjwatson> wgrant: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10584585/
[09:42] <cjwatson> I deliberately don't have libgit2-dev installed here to make sure we don't have hidden dependencies on it
[09:43] <cjwatson> wgrant: Try pulling cffi, pycparser, pygit2 back out of requirements.txt?
[09:46] <cjwatson> I see https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/ticket/7795 is making progress, too ...
[09:48]  * cjwatson tries that
[09:51] <cjwatson> wgrant: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10584612/ makes the charm work again.
[09:52] <cjwatson> wgrant: Perhaps a compromise would be moving that to pygit2-requirements.txt, so that you can still use pip for that for local development if you want to deal with the libgit2 issues?
[10:04] <cjwatson> blr: I think you could drop ['commit_time'] from format_commit in your commit-api branch.  It exactly duplicates ['committer']['time'], and even though pygit2 has both there's no reason for us to.
[10:05] <wgrant> cjwatson: Sorry, distracted by real life. Let me see.
[10:06] <wgrant> Splitting those out into a separate requirements file might be sensible, indeed.
[10:06] <wgrant> cjwatson: The charm didn't whine about anything else?
[10:06] <wgrant> I'll test it properly before I merge, but need to set up a less tainted Juju VM.
[10:07] <wgrant> cjwatson: You're not unhappy with a --system-site-packages virtualenv for dev locally?
[10:28] <cjwatson> wgrant: No other whines.  I'm fine with that kind of virtualenv for dev locally; the way I do it is to use a trusty lxc container that has the LP PPA enabled.
[10:32] <cjwatson> wgrant: Does https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/db-git-more/+merge/252672 look vaguely plausible?
[10:32] <cjwatson> Or did you want to see the matching code branch first?
[10:32] <wgrant> cjwatson: I wouldn't mind seeing the code.
[10:33] <cjwatson> Right, let me finish off the remaining possible tests today.
[10:34] <cjwatson> Oh, URL scheme for exported refs, that was the other thing I had to work out.
[10:35] <cjwatson> I think I'll just drop the exports and deal with that in a later branch.
[10:36] <wgrant> cjwatson: Yeah, variable-length paths ftl.
[11:11] <wgrant> cjwatson: Oh wow, just notced the Twisted ticket open in my browser. That is good news.
[12:48] <wgrant> Huh
[12:49] <wgrant> The turnip charm doesn't actually explicitly install git
[12:49] <wgrant> It was always there anyway when deploying from utopic and vivid to trusty, but not trusty to trusty...
[16:31] <cjwatson> wgrant: We'll have to work out some kind of URL scheme for refs, otherwise we can't usefully show summaries of branches.
[16:33] <cjwatson> wgrant: Strawman: filter to refs/heads/ only, and URL-encode the rest.
[16:33] <cjwatson> (We may need to show tags at some point, but that should be separate anyway.)
[19:45] <blr> cjwatson: thanks colin, yes commit_time is redundant, you're right.
[21:17] <blr> cjwatson: was there anything else that obviously needed addressing?
[21:18] <cjwatson> blr: I didn't quite get as far as actually running anything against it today, so I was just going on inspection.  Didn't see anything else.
[21:19] <blr> cjwatson: ok, thanks.
[21:19] <cjwatson> Hopefully tomorrow, since I'm about to need to fill in the committer information in order to be able to progress with UI.
[21:20] <cjwatson> But my git-ref-scanner branch was big enough, and I wanted to start with something that only required today's lp:turnip...
[22:04] <wgrant> cjwatson: Well, traversing refs properly in a Zopey world isn't actually a problem.
[22:31] <wgrant> cjwatson: You can just have a traverser that consumes segments until it matches or can't match a ref. You don't even need a marker to indicate that traversal should stop, because a ref cannot be a prefix of another, as they're represented (ignoring packed-refs) as a directory tree.
[22:32] <wgrant> blr: Is your commit-api branch ready for review?
[23:00] <cjwatson> wgrant: oh, I thought you were vetoing variable-segment-length paths on principle
[23:01] <wgrant> cjwatson: Oh, no, that would be ugly and there's no need.
[23:01] <wgrant> If we were using stupid regex-based path matches we'd be in trouble, but luckily Zope is sane in respects like this.
[23:01] <cjwatson> github seems to strip off refs/heads/
[23:01] <wgrant> cjwatson: I probed around to work out their rules at some point, let me see if I can find that piece of paper.
[23:02] <cjwatson> but they do permit multiple segments after that
[23:02] <wgrant> You can specify the full path, but they try stripping off refs/heads and refs/tags in that order.
[23:02] <wgrant> Which makes sense.
[23:23] <blr> wgrant: it is yep
[23:46] <wgrant> blr: Hm, I see that pygit2 decodes the message for us. Do you know how it does that?
[23:46] <wgrant> It's probably fine, but best to check.
[23:48] <blr> wgrant: didn't see anything explicit in the documentation, will have to look at the source.
[23:48] <wgrant> blr: libgit2 uses the encoding field in the commit message, but I wonder what it does on invalid UTF-8/
[23:49] <blr> wgrant: perhaps need another latin-1 test for the commit body?
[23:49] <wgrant> blr: Indeed. Git commit messages are text, and they have an encoding field, so latin-1 can be coped with. But we should ensure we don't crash on cases where the message doesn't decode, as that's technically possible.
[23:50] <wgrant> Hm
[23:50] <wgrant> I'm making a whole lot of suggestions here that make a lot of sense if 0.22 changed the API..
[23:51] <wgrant> Hm, no, these properties seem to exist in 0.21
[23:54] <blr> tangential, but looking at the changelog, it might make sense to upgrade to 0.22 before working on clone.
[23:56] <wgrant> Indeed, it makes sense to track upstream as close as reasonably possible.