[00:00] <teward> sarnold, for the most part, "upstream" for the nginx package in relation to Ubuntu is Debian
[00:00] <teward> in relation to Debian, "upstream" is nginx.org
[00:00] <teward> and nginx.org *has* their own packages
[00:00] <teward> they're  not as admin-friendly though
[00:01] <teward> sarnold, i don't *mind* an Ubuntu delta for this addition of an extra binary that builds nginx.org-upstream-only modules.
[00:01] <teward> it's not *that* bad of a delta for me to keep working
[00:01] <sarnold> I expect the nginx.org packages are designed to work identically regardless if you're on debian, ubuntu, gentoo, arch, or centos, right? :) hehe
[00:01] <teward> since that's just adding a control entry and an extra ruleset for the modules
[00:01] <teward> "identically"?
[00:01] <teward> probably
[00:02] <teward> but "identically" is an obscure statement if you are including centos in that list
[00:02] <teward> since selinux can be evil there with ngixn
[00:02] <teward> nginx*
[00:02]  * teward kicks his keyboard from here to /dev/null and back
[00:02] <sarnold> oh sure, but that's not nginx's job to sort out :) hehe
[00:02] <teward> :P
[00:02] <teward> no, that's the centos people's job
[00:02] <sarnold> bingo
[00:02] <teward> it's also not "nginx"'s job to maintain the debian package
[00:02] <teward> that's mostly maintained by non-nginx-upstream people afaict
[00:04] <teward> sarnold, do we have anywhere on the wiki where we can document these things about certain packages?
[00:05] <sarnold> teward: not that I know of
[00:05] <teward> if all else fails I'll make an "NginxInMain" page in my own namespace regarding this, but...
[00:05] <teward> i want *somewhere* publicly listed the reasoning for this
[00:05] <sarnold> teward: very good idea.
[00:05] <teward> even if I have to create a page for it in wiki.u.c
[00:06] <teward> actually, how does one subscribe to notices for wiki edits in a given page/section of the wiki? (if you know)
[00:08] <sarnold> hrm, the 'new starter' page just says "subscribe to these regexs", doesn't mention how to do it..
[00:08] <sarnold> .. and clicking 'subscribe' on the front page of wiki.ubuntu.com just hangs
[00:09] <teward> so does logging in right now
[00:09] <teward> maybe someone should poke sysadmin about that?
[00:09] <teward> (laggggggggggg)
[00:20] <sarnold> teward: hey, the wiki is responsive again
[00:21] <sarnold> teward: once you're logged in you can click on your username, then notification, and add regexs as you need; or, you can subscribe to an individual page with the 'subscribe' link
[00:54] <infinity> teward: As I asked before, why do we need yet another ngingx binary, why not just drop the offending module(s) from -light and call it done?
[00:55] <infinity> Then if we just reverse the full|light depends for the 'nginx' metapackage, we can toss that in main too.
[00:55] <infinity> sarnold: ^
[00:56] <infinity> Looks like light only ships one third-party module, so that would seem the easiest course of action.
[00:57] <sarnold> infinity: I had considered suggesting that first, but -light is lacking UWSGI, spdy, and webdav; I figured the first two are mighty important, and the last one is perhaps convenient for someone..
[00:58] <infinity> sarnold: Oh.  So you want, basically, -full or -extras, minus third-party?
[00:59] <infinity> (Can modules not be distributed as DSOs, do they really need to be built in?  That would make this so much easier to deal with)
[00:59] <sarnold> infinity: sure, I didn't notice much difference among all the standard modules, but things felt -different- in the third-party modules.
[00:59] <infinity> Then you'd just have nginx-core and modules-extra modules-full modules-third-party...
[01:00] <sarnold> infinity: no idea there, but that would feel so much intuitive to me :)
[01:01] <infinity> Man, these really are all statically linked.
[01:01] <infinity> Ick.
[01:01] <infinity> So much ick.
[01:02] <infinity> "Nginx modules must be selected during compile, run-time selection of modules is not currently supported."
[01:02] <infinity> \o/
[01:02] <infinity> I guess we're stuck with the current state of affairs, then.
[01:04] <infinity> At least the rules looks like it would take 30 seconds to hack to support more flavours.
[01:55] <teward> infinity, if you mean like apache does
[01:55] <teward> that's planned
[01:55] <teward> but not implemented
[01:55] <teward> (yet)
[01:56] <teward> while on the topic of apache, it increases disk i/o crazily, which is why people kinda like nginx :p
[01:56] <teward> and other servers (still)
[01:56] <teward> but meh
[01:56]  * teward was busy and didn't see your messages until now
[01:56] <teward> infinity, it does take about 30 seconds to hack, but to match waht sarnold wants... i have to go poke the upstream package and get a list of what they compile in
[01:57] <teward> (nginx *has* an upstream package, but it's not as administrator friendly)
[01:57] <teward> i'm also stuck on windows until tomorrow
[01:57] <teward> so i can't do squat until then
[01:58] <sarnold> teward: no no, don't bother with checking the nginx.org packages, that's too much work :)
[01:58] <teward> :P
[01:58] <sarnold> teward: just disable the modules listed in the debian/control file as "third party modules" in a new binary package
[01:58] <teward> sarnold, ... right...
[01:58] <teward> sarnold, i still have to poke around to see if certain things're enabled or not :p
[01:58]  * teward yawns
[01:59] <teward> sarnold, what about the metapackage
[01:59] <teward> do we leave that in universe, or do we put nginx-core or w/e i name the new binary as the dependency on that
[01:59] <teward> since i know enoug hpeople use just `apt-get install nginx` and expect it to work
[02:02] <sarnold> teward: very good question. If I interpret infinity's suggestion loosely, we'd put nginx-main (or whatever) first in the list, then put the nginx metapackage in main also. but I really don't want to break existing users who might have installed 'nginx' but rely upon features from nginx-full
[02:02] <teward> sarnold, i was considering naming it nginx-core, because it's just the core packages.
[02:02] <teward> sarnold, in theory, could we do nginx-core|nginx-full|nginx-light?
[02:03] <sarnold> teward: ah, that's a good name.
[02:03] <sarnold> teward: yeah
[02:03] <teward> that way it doesn't break already-installed nginx-full/nginx-light + nginx metapackage installs
[02:03] <teward> but on new ones forces the use of -core
[02:03] <sarnold> I don't know what will happen on dist-upgrade.
[02:03] <teward> well, this is why sbuild exists
[02:03] <teward> and my staging ppa
[02:03] <sarnold> :)
[02:04] <teward> and the five other testing PPAs I have
[02:04] <teward> oh that reminds me, note to self, update my trusty VM
[02:04] <teward> since that's WAY behind and needs poked upwards before i can test
[02:05] <teward> sarnold, i'm probably gonna do two forms of testing...
[02:05] <teward> the first making sure that i put the rules in in such a way that i can get the -core one to build
[02:06] <teward> before I even get to testing the metapackage
[02:06] <sarnold> tell me about it, my testing trusty vm just downloaded 600 packages. sigh. :)
[02:06] <teward> (the packaging isn't exactly "neat" or "easy" here)
[02:06] <teward> sarnold, eww.
[02:06] <teward> sarnold, i might just nuke the VM I have now and install with the latest beta image or smth o.o
[02:07] <teward> sarnold, what's the timeline for the MIR changes, though, in terms of freezes I need to be aware of?
[02:07] <teward> I know feature freeze already happened, but...
[02:08] <sarnold> teward: we'll need to ask for a feature freeze exception; the fact that i didn't finish the MIR review ought to help encourage the release team to grant an ffe -- afterall, everyone -wants- nginx in, and this isn't exactly adding new features, just a few build-rules fiddling.
[02:08] <teward> sarnold, right...
[02:08] <teward> sarnold, you're gonna have to support the debdiff then when we ask for an FFe for this MIR...
[02:09] <teward> and note we got in 1.4.5 to trusty while you were reviewing 1.4.4
[02:09] <sarnold> teward: yeah, it seemed easier to continue where I was :)
[02:09] <teward> so any debdiffs're gonna be based off of 1.4.5
[02:09] <sarnold> though they had fixed the only bug I found. haha.
[02:09] <teward> heh
[02:14] <teward> sarnold, ooo i forgot about the rest of the packaging
[02:15] <teward> sarnold, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/nginx/trusty/files/head:/debian/
[02:15] <teward> sarnold, this is far more than just 30 seconds of work
[02:15]  * teward points at the other files
[02:15] <teward> such as install, preinst, postinst, etc.
[02:15]  * teward has a headache already >.<
[02:16] <sarnold> teward: definitely, it'd take me most of an afternoon before I think I'd have built packages to test. and I'm ususally too optimistic.
[02:16] <teward> sarnold, you were expecting about a ~50 lines debdiff?  probably safer to say closer to ~500 lines
[02:16] <teward> that much harder to get an FFe, maybe?
[02:16] <sarnold> teward: well, 75 lines. but I hope it's not too bad..
[02:16] <teward> i'm exaggerating, with 500
[02:16] <teward> but still
[02:16] <teward> it's not gonna be "small" like some security debdiffs or segfault debdiffs
[02:17] <sarnold> *nod*
[02:17] <teward> it's substantially larger :/
[02:17] <sarnold> I just finished doing some 'new library' debdiffs for apparmor; despite how much time it took, the changes were actually surprisingly small..
[02:19] <teward> i'm probably gonna end up cloning the nginx-full stuff and just tweaking it.
[02:19] <teward> rename things to nginx-core and such
[02:19] <teward> trim out stuff that doesn't apply, and what not
[02:20] <infinity> sarnold: dist-upgrade will be fine, it's an OR dep.
[02:20] <infinity> sarnold: Sort of the whole point of OR deps is to give the user choice.
[02:20] <sarnold> infinity: thanks
[02:20] <sarnold> infinity: well, okay, it feels a bit more obvious when you put it that way :)
[02:21] <infinity> teward: It should be tiny... Add a package to debian/control, a new configure stanza in rules, and copy the .install files.
[02:21] <infinity> (Well, okay, not "tiny", but obvious and small from a reviewability perspective)
[02:22] <teward> infinity, true.  my only concern is if, like, something bad happens and it ends up turning into a hack job
[02:23] <teward> which it *shouldn't* if i base it off what already exists for -full
[02:23] <teward> infinity, the debdiff's gonna catch all the new .install, .pre* etc. files though
[02:23] <infinity> Yeah, that's fine.
[02:23] <teward> that's what i mean by being "more than would normally be expected"
[02:23] <teward> but this is a project for tomorrow, i'm still stuck on this [WORDS REMOVED] Windows system.
[02:24] <infinity> I could just whip it up now. :P
[02:25] <teward> infinity, i'd like to put my name on the debdiff though :p
[02:25] <teward> infinity, besides, i need something to do tomorrow
[02:25] <teward> rather than sit on my butt doing nothign
[02:27] <teward> oh good this ISO's done downloading (finally, after 4 hours)
[02:27]  * teward boots into Linux
[02:27] <infinity> teward: I'm kinda halfway done.  But you're welcome to have it when I am. :P
[02:39] <infinity> teward: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7013893/
[02:39] <infinity> teward: Merry Christmas, you get to write a changelog that doesn't suck. ;)
[02:39] <infinity> sarnold: ^-- That look like what you had in mind?
[02:39] <sarnold> "stuff and things" :) haha
[02:40] <sarnold> teward: hey you were closer, 297 line debdiff
[02:42] <sarnold> infinity: ACK. looks great. :)
[02:47] <infinity> sarnold: Builds fine, debdiffs of the binaries look sane.
[02:57] <teward> sarnold: infinity: yeah, that's about what I get, i'm test-building in sbuild before i make the debdiff uploaded with my name on it instead
[02:57] <teward> because I'm crazy paranoid
[02:57] <teward> and i want to make sure it actually builds here too
[02:57] <teward> since i have two custom builds that'd be based off of this in a private apt repository on my network
[02:57] <teward> (so I need to know it builds :P)
[02:58] <infinity> teward: Did diff I gave you builds and produces sane binaries, already tested.  But do test again.
[02:58] <infinity> teward: And if your diff is significantly different from mine, I'd be curious why.
[02:59] <infinity> (Note, if you were tempted to reproduce the Breaks/Replaces bits, those are unnecessary, since that old version of -core never existed)
[03:00] <teward> infinity: yeah i did add that, but i can remove that from the debdiff before i submit it
[03:00] <teward> (it may be unnecessary, but i added it in because consistency)
[03:01] <teward> they look basically identical, save for the debian/changelog entry
[03:01] <teward> ... note to self, don't let sbuild chroots go for weeks without updating >.>
[03:07] <teward> infinity: there will be minor differences, like, in the rules, I put the core build-dir after the existing config rules and builddir rules, and put it at the end of flavours.  i could easily switch them around to match your changes
[03:08] <pranith__> can someone point me how to create a package from source? I am trying to package gnu global which is here: https://code.launchpad.net/~bobby-prani/gnuglobal/global-6.2
[03:09] <pranith__> I am following instructions here but getting errors: http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/packaging-new-software.html
[03:11] <teward> sarnold: infinity: Am I being too verbose in my changelog entry here?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/7013991/
[03:11] <teward> (opinions and suggestions welcome)
[03:14] <darkxst> pranith__, we are not mind readers, post logs of the failure ;)
[03:14] <sarnold> teward: perhaps modify the nginx-core.* line to say which ones you copied from -- but looks good to me, thanks
[03:14] <teward> sarnold: that one's easy :p
[03:17] <pranith__> darkxst, I created a branch of upstream source on launchpad and I am not seeing the source files in it...
[03:17] <pranith__> so when I try to compile it.. it is erroring out when applying the patches
[03:18] <teward> sarnold: infinity: this look about right to ya?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/7014014/
[03:18] <teward> (that's the entire debdiff I have)
[03:20] <Noskcaj> pranith__, Please link us a build log
[03:23] <sarnold> teward: line 85 looks off, nginx-core-dbg Depends: on nginx-full, not nginx-core
[03:26] <sarnold> teward: line 269 looks off, it does a cd $(BUILDDIR_full) instead of $(BUILDDIR_core)
[03:30] <teward> sarnold: oops
[03:31] <teward> sarnold: that it?
[03:31] <sarnold> teward: it's all I spotted :)
[03:32] <teward> sarnold: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7014046/ is the version that includes those fixes, if you'd like to go over it or have others go over it before i upload the .debdiff and attach to the MIR, feel free to.  :)
[03:40] <sarnold> teward: both nginx-full and nginx-core have a Description that includes "(standard version)" -- it might be worth changing the nginx-core and nginx-core-dbg Descriptions to say "(core version)" so that apt-cache search nginx | grep ^nginx  will show a difference between the packages
[03:41] <infinity> teward: ubuntu2, not ubuntu1.1 ... And all the diffs between mine and yours look to be mistakes.
[03:41]  * teward grumbles
[03:41] <infinity> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7014075/
[03:42] <infinity> So, description issues, line-wrap issues, and whitespace issues.
[03:42] <teward> yeah...
[03:42] <teward> that's probably a side effect of me being tired >.>
[03:45] <infinity> Small mistakes, mind you, but I'm anal. :P
[03:45] <teward> infinity: the whitespace issue on the rules file i don't see
[03:45] <teward> i think i actually *fixed* that...
[03:46] <infinity> teward: The diff you pasted has an extra tab there that doesn't need to be.
[03:46] <infinity> Which doesn't break GNU make anyway, but meh.
[03:46] <teward> ahhh
[03:50] <teward> infinity: okay, see, if there is an extra tab in there, gedit can't find it.  http://paste.ubuntu.com/7014088/ doesn't seem to have that extra tab where your diff of the diffs says it should be
[03:50]  * teward yawns
[03:50] <teward> i should seriously probably go to bed >.>
[03:50] <teward> (and thanks for checking these things though)
[03:55] <Noskcaj> Could someone please sponsor a few packages? The queue is now on 50 different things
[03:55] <teward> infinity: i do kinda want to get this uploaded, though, so hopefully there's nothing wrong with this debdiff (i've remade it enough xD)
[03:55] <teward> s/uploaded/debdiff uploaded to the Launchpad bug/
[03:58] <infinity> teward: That's missing the extra tab, but has an s/core/full/ bug.
[03:58] <teward> grrrr
[03:58] <infinity> teward: Do you need a sponsor for this?
[03:58] <infinity> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7014124/
[03:58] <infinity> If so, I'll just fix the three issues there and upload.
[03:58] <teward> infinity: the procedure is upload to the Launchpad bug, get FFe (if nobody yells at the debdiff), then upload
[03:59] <teward> unless you can also approve an FFe
[03:59] <teward> s/upload/find a sponsor to upload to trusty/
[03:59] <infinity> I can.
[03:59] <infinity> My sponsoring would be tacitly approving the FFe at the same time. :P
[04:01]  * Noskcaj directs infinity to bug 1282937
[04:01] <teward> infinity: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7014141/ is the latest iteration, please check
[04:01] <teward> infinity: and i will need a sponsor, I have yet to finish a PPU application and file it
[04:02] <teward> because (1) lazy, (2) work, (3) [secret reasons]
[04:03] <teward> infinity: at least, i think that last iteration is right
[04:03] <teward> it may not have copied right :/
[04:03]  * teward yanws
[04:03] <teward> bleh, i can't even type "yawns" right >.>
[04:04] <infinity> teward: That iteration's better, except for the space in control that's driving me nuts that I'll strip before I upload. :)
[04:05] <teward> infinity: heheh, the extra space in the control file is really irking you isn't it xD
[04:05] <infinity> You have no idea.
[04:05] <infinity> Anyhow, if you're happy with this, I'll upload it.
[04:06] <YokoZar> infinity: Were you the one I was supposed to poke ~ wine1.6 being stuck in proposed
[04:06] <YokoZar> due to britney not liking the cross-arch wine1.6 dependency
[04:06] <teward> infinity: lemme upload it to the launchpad bug
[04:07] <teward> because i'm in on a temporary folder that'll get nuked after a while
[04:07] <teward> so i want this debdiff to be visible there :P
[04:07] <infinity> YokoZar: Maybe.
[04:07] <infinity> teward: Oh, the MIR also mentions that this needs to be bumped to the lua version in main while we're at it.
[04:08]  * infinity test builds with s/5.1/5.2/
[04:09] <teward> infinity: say what now?
[04:09] <teward> infinity: did I miss that?
[04:09] <infinity> teward: Yes.
[04:10]  * infinity test builds with lua5.2.
[04:11] <pranith__> Noskcaj, I created a local branch from lp:global and added the necessary debian files
[04:12] <pranith__> when I try to give the command bzr builddeb ... it errors out saying not able to get orig-source
[04:12] <teward> infinity: if that works i'll bump the build-deps, but the lua dep is for the universe package :/
[04:15] <teward> infinity: and do let me know if it works, as i can add the change to the changelog and the debdiff
[04:15] <infinity> Nope, it's going to need a patch, probably.
[04:16] <pranith__> where do I added the upstream source info so that bzr get-source-package does not fail?
[04:16] <teward> infinity: if and only if the Lua module, which is third party, works with 5.2
[04:16] <pranith__> add*
[04:16] <infinity> teward: That sentence didn't make a whole lot of sense. :P
[04:17] <pranith__> or create a source tar ball from my current tree while packaging?
[04:17] <teward> infinity: you're right, i'm tired, it happens
[04:18] <teward> infinity: your "it's going to need a patch, probably" statement is throwing me off, which needs the patch, the nginx lua module? or something else?
[04:20] <pranith__> darkxst,
[04:20] <pranith__> ?
[04:21] <teward> infinity: actually, I checked the upstream source for that module - https://github.com/chaoslawful/lua-nginx-module
[04:21] <teward> infinity: it doesn't support 5.2 yet.
[04:23] <infinity> Where there's a will, there's a way.
[04:23] <teward> infinity: the only option to address that would be to disable the module, which means I think we can then drop the Lua build-dep
[04:23] <infinity> That's hardly the only option. :)
[04:23] <sarnold> how bad is the breakage?
[04:25] <teward> infinity: if you've got a better option i'll take it :P
[04:25] <teward> infinity: i expect, though, that there'll be a FTBFS, and unless you can recode the module for 5.2, well...
[04:25] <teward> then there is no patch to fix it
[04:25] <teward> (yet)
[04:27] <teward> okay, i can't stay up any more without running the risk of passing out over my keyboard, if you find a fix let me know, infinity, but use a privmsg, because otherwise I might miss it
[04:28]  * teward is going to bed
[04:28] <sarnold> wow, looks like lua5.2 dropped a -lot- of stuff: http://www.lua.org/manual/5.2/manual.html#8
[04:28] <sarnold> g'night teward, have a good weekend
[04:28] <teward> is this channel logged on the irclogs?
[04:29] <teward> if it is then i'll go digging tomorrow for any highlights i got :/
[04:29] <teward> ... i answered my own question
[04:29] <teward> g'night.
[04:57] <Noskcaj> pranith__, Make the bzr branch with bzr branch lp:ubuntu/global
[04:58] <infinity> teward: Okay, I took a stab at porting it, but it's a more significant effort than I have time for tonight.
[04:58] <infinity> teward: Talk to me on Monday if you want some pointers, or nag upstream to fix it. :P
[11:53] <toclax> Hi, I want contribute to ubuntu with code and repair packages but I don't know how start... someone could guide me?
[17:21] <teward> infinity: upstream fixing it would be lovely, but I don't think they're even taking a stab at it yet based on their github
[18:30] <teward> infinity: i poked upstream for that lua module and they said they'd take a look at getting it ported to 5.2 today, or at least compatible.  I hope upstream knows what evil they're going to be facint
[19:16] <Laney> mlankhorst: Do you have some useful way to identify wine fixes? 1.6 broke an application for me vs. 1.4 which works again with 1.7.13 from the ppa
[19:40] <Noskcaj> Can someone please review https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/xfdesktop4/merge ? It fixes a bug with over 140 affected users
[19:45] <rbasak> infinity, sarnold, teward: just reading scrollback. I'm interested to hear opinions (from upstream, maybe) about how useful the pieces that we'll have in main will be to end users. Will they all end up having to the bits in universe instead, and in that case, how useful is the MIR? I don't mean to imply one answer or another; I'm just asking the question.
[20:14] <mlankhorst> Laney: no, in general wine has weird cycles :\
[20:15] <Laney> so it'd be good to get this fix, whatever it is, into 1.6 ...
[20:16] <mlankhorst> yeah but without a reverse regression test.. no idea
[20:16] <mlankhorst> maybe wine appdb has information
[20:17] <Laney> nein
[20:17] <mlankhorst> doesn't even say which wine version started working? in that case you're on your own :x
[20:18] <jtaylor> I also have a wine fix for 1.4 I'd like in but I'm very confused with the current status
[20:18] <jtaylor> do I stillm need to bother with 1.4?
[20:19] <Laney> trusty has 1.6 now
[20:19] <jtaylor> oh it migrated
[20:19] <jtaylor> nice
[20:20] <mlankhorst> Laney: what application?
[20:20] <jtaylor> but the 1.4 still is in the archive?
[20:22] <Laney> mlankhorst: http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=26410
[20:23] <mlankhorst> so what broke?
[20:26] <Laney> It could launch the application but it'd just give me a dialog saying "YNAB has encountered a problem"
[20:27] <Laney> there was a 'more details' button but it had 'null' for the stack trace so that's not very useful
[20:30] <knocte> do the unity devs hang out here?
[20:30] <mlankhorst> yeah, installing wine1.6-dbg{,:i386} package might help
[20:31] <mlankhorst> but it seems like it's using its internal handler which makes things harder
[20:31] <mlankhorst> is there anything useful in the console when it crashes?
[20:31] <Laney> this dialog was internal to the application
[20:31] <Laney> it was handling the crash somehow
[20:31] <mlankhorst> yeah, anything in the console window at the time of crash?
[20:31] <Laney> nothing useful
[20:32] <Laney> can I downgrade back to 1.6?
[20:32] <Laney> it did some 'upgrading .wine' thing
[20:32] <mlankhorst> no idea then, I would try to install older wine1.7 packages, find the first workng one
[20:32] <mlankhorst> yeah usuall
[20:32] <mlankhorst> usually*
[20:32] <Laney> getting those is going to be a pain
[20:32] <Laney> oh actually they're here https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-wine/+archive/ppa/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=superseded&field.series_filter=trusty
[20:35] <mlankhorst> try the oldest one for saucy first
[20:35] <mlankhorst> then you know how much of a pain it will be :p
[20:42] <Laney> launchpadlib is a beautiful thing
[20:51] <Laney> mlankhorst: bad news, 1.7.8 is the oldest available and it works
[20:57] <mlankhorst> fun
[20:58] <Laney> can you give me 1.7.4 debs?
[20:58] <Laney> or older
[21:01] <alberts> Hi! Maybe someone here are able to help me regarding gtk? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/21969436/how-to-make-gtkplug-transparent-so-that-gtksocket-background-is-seen.
[21:06] <knocte> where's the source code of unity that checks the UBUNTU_MENUPROXY env var? https://launchpad.net/unity doesn't contain this check
[21:07] <knocte> alberts: I guess you would have better luck in irc.gnome.org/gtk+
[21:20] <Noskcaj> debfx, Is it worth packaging the latest steam bugfix release for trusty? Changes are at http://paste.ubuntu.com/7018443/
[21:44] <Noskcaj> bdrung, Could you package python-versiontools for debian? It's needed to fix the gevent-socketio ftbfs in ubuntu (and should be a build-depend of gevent-socketio in debian)
[21:48] <bdrung> Noskcaj: yeah, i could do that. can you send me a reminder to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:49] <knocte> where's the source code of unity that checks the UBUNTU_MENUPROXY env var? neither https://launchpad.net/unity nor https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/indicator-appmenu/trusty contain this check
[21:59] <mdeslaur> knocte: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/unity-gtk-module/trusty/view/head:/src/main.c#L826
[22:00] <knocte> mdeslaur: great! thanks
[22:00] <mdeslaur> yw
[23:26] <teward> rbasak, I think some people rely on the third-party stuff, but rely on nginx-extras for that.  Ultimately, you may be right, people're going to use the bits in Universe over the stuff in Main.  Either way, I'll keep on maintaining it, but I think jcastro is gonna look like an idiot for saying it is likely to get into Main in his blog post (which has now ended up pretty much everywhere)
[23:26] <teward> in the instance that we don't ahve something in main
[23:26] <teward> infinity, sarnold: ^
[23:30] <stgraber> well, people shouldn't blog about a package getting moved into main until the MIR has actually been approved ;)
[23:31] <teward> stgraber, tell that to jcastro
[23:31] <teward> i think there's a log about it in the community team channel, where I called him out on that


[00:33] <swooper> sup peopple
[00:34] <swooper> howdie
[00:35] <swooper> hmm everyone be sleeping
[00:38] <swooper> well i had a couple of suggestions/feedback about xubuntu
[00:38] <swooper> i suppose i should just become a tester then
[00:38] <swooper> XD
[00:39] <ultima> hello guys!
[00:40] <ultima> I have a dude with wich release of xubuntu is the better.. is stable
[00:40] <ultima> I'm trying the last now but I have a lot of problem wtf
[00:42] <swooper> whats up ?
[00:42] <swooper> you ahve a dude?
[00:43] <ultima> hi!
[00:43] <swooper> sup bud
[00:44] <ultima> yes the problem is that the last version Xubuntu 11.10 and also the 11.04 have some problems ...
[00:44] <ultima> for example at startup I have black screen for 30 seconds!! and after that the norma llogin
[00:44] <ultima> so strange!!
[00:44] <swooper> what sort of hardware do yo uhave?
[00:44] <swooper> ie, what are your specs?
[00:45] <swooper> and you had no troubles in previous versions?
[00:45] <ultima> I have a laptop.. an Acer TravelMate with Intel Core 2 Duo 2 Ghz... 2GB DDR2
[00:46] <ultima> in the 8.10 a not have this problmes
[00:46] <swooper> What graphics card do have?
[00:46] <ultima> vga ati radeon
[00:46] <swooper> *shudder* ati
[00:47] <ultima> I know how configure xorg.conf for my card and so I think that the problem is not the video card.... but I don't know what!! I think the new kernel....
[00:47] <ultima> I don't know wtf
[00:48] <well_laid_lawn> probably just needs a kernel option at boot
[00:48] <swooper> haha okay, well im new to xubuntu etc, however, sounds liek a config issue
[00:48] <ultima> what type of option for the kernel???
[00:49] <swooper> seems like other people are havign the same issue
[00:49] <swooper> http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=xubuntu++11+screen+blank+on+boot&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
[00:49] <ultima> because all works fine... less the startup!!  I have to wait 30-40 seconds in black screen from grub till login screen ..... so strange!!
[00:49] <ultima> but after that all is fine (sorry for my english but is not my mothertongue)
[00:49] <swooper> http://thedaneshproject.com/posts/ubuntu-11-04-blank-screen-on-boot-solved/
[00:50] <swooper> that link has a tutorial on it
[00:50] <ultima> ok now I'll read it.. thanks! ;)
[00:51] <swooper> no worries
[00:51] <swooper> whether benefit or not, xubuntu can possibly use solutions from ubuntu threads and xubuntu threads
[00:52] <swooper> looks liek its a xubuntu specific bug of some sort
[00:54] <ultima> okok thank you very much... now I reboot and try second option you send me ;)
[00:54] <ultima> I'll come back soon !!
[00:55] <swooper> hahah no worries
[00:55] <swooper> knights of xubuntu
[01:05] <swooper> ..la la laaa
[01:09] <ultima> no work for me..
[01:10] <ultima> anybody can help me? Or only tell me what is the problem? kernel, xorg and driver video.. or I don't know what..
[01:12] <ultima> My problem is: I have 30-40 seconds black screen after grub and before the login screen.. because is this the strange thing, that after 40 seconds of black screen start the login screen and all works good!!!
[01:12] <K4k> hi, after an unclean shutdown I can no longer load my desktop in 11.10. only indication of a problem is in /var/log/Xorg.0.log i see a line "power button: close" any ideas?
[01:40] <well_laid_lawn> K4k: what do you mean by "can no longer load my desktop" and "only indication of a problem..." ?
[01:40] <well_laid_lawn> does the login screen show?
[02:16] <K4k> well_laid_lawn: sorry for the delay, the problem is at login the screen flickers and goes back to the login rather than to desktop
[02:18] <K4k> I've been looking at /var/log/audit.log /var/log/Xorg.0.log and there is some output from Xorg -configure. I was able to get startx to load xfce if I 'modprobe radeon'. I think somhow X got mixed up and is trying to load fglrx which I've never had installed (as far as I know)
[02:19] <well_laid_lawn> K4k: the X log should tell you if that's happening
[02:19] <K4k> Xorg.0.log doesn't show any definitive errors. I'm booting it back up now, I'll post up the errors I do see when running startx right after boot
[02:20] <well_laid_lawn> I meant it will tell you what drivers it's using
[02:21] <well_laid_lawn> or trying to
[02:21] <K4k> hmm, let me double check
[02:23] <K4k> well_laid_lawn: so what I've done is generated an xorg.conf and am manually calling the radeon driver. This gets startx to load xfce successfully
[02:23] <K4k> the login manager, however, does not
[02:23] <K4k> The error I see in audit.log is....
[02:24] <well_laid_lawn> K4k: you shouldn't need a xorg.conf these days - try renaming ~/.conf and try the login screen again
[02:25] <well_laid_lawn> the X log also tells what config dir/file it is using
[02:26] <K4k> "[system[ Rejected send message, 2 matched rules; type="method_call", sender=":1.40" (uid=104 pid=2590 comm="lightdm-gtk-greeter" ") interface="org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties" member="GetAll" error name="(unset)" requested_reply="0" destination=":1.14" (uid=0 pid=1287 comm="/usr/sbin/console-kit-daemon --no-daemon ")
[02:26] <craigbass1976> is there something by default that would lock me out if I got my GUI password wrong too many times?
[02:26] <K4k> lightdm: pam_succeed_if(lightdm:auth): requirement "user ingroup nopasswdlogin" not met by user "myusername"
[02:27] <K4k> craigbass1976: I don't believe there is in a default install
[02:27] <well_laid_lawn> K4k: that says you didn't give a password
[02:27] <K4k> well_laid_lawn: well, I did
[02:27] <K4k> I can login to console just fine
[02:27] <craigbass1976> I click my name, type my pass, see a black screen (with a smidgen of text flashing) for a split second, then land back at the login screen.  A new user I just set up doens't have this problem at all.
[02:28] <craigbass1976> I can log in via terminal with no problems
[02:28] <K4k> craigbass1976: that sounds identical to my issue
[02:28] <well_laid_lawn>  try renaming ~/.config and try the login screen again
[02:29] <craigbass1976> well_laid_lawn, nope.  SHould I have rebooted first?
[02:29] <K4k> well_laid_lawn: I mv'd ~/.config to ~/.config.old and moved /etc/X11/xorg.conf (the one I made) to /etc/X11/xorg.conf.old and the same thing happens
[02:30] <K4k> craigbass1976: did you update recently?
[02:30] <well_laid_lawn> you both should logout from everywhere
[02:31] <K4k> I renamed those files and rebooted
[02:31] <craigbass1976> K4k, I believe there was one causing trouble today, but we had other issues at work (a deep paper jam in a very warm laser printer -- a signature pad imploding) and I wasn't paying close attention
[02:31] <craigbass1976> well_laid_lawn, like do it from a livecd?
[02:31] <craigbass1976> K4k, how'd you make out?
[02:32] <K4k> craigbass1976: still no go
[02:32] <well_laid_lawn> no just make sure you move that dir and logout from everywhere then try the login screen again
[02:32] <K4k> I'm in tty1 again just making sure I don't have a half done or broken update
[02:33] <craigbass1976> K4k, I did have some halfassed updates now that you mntion it, and I did finish them
[02:34] <K4k> The only odd thing I did to this laptop before the problem started was I had to hard reset the system due to a graphics driver quirk with this laptop and suspend that I've been trying to work out
[02:38] <K4k> hm, I'm getting GPG errors with apt-get update
[02:39] <well_laid_lawn> !gpg
[02:39] <well_laid_lawn> I've got no idea if that'll help...
[02:40] <K4k> eh....
[02:47] <craigbass1976> Is there such a thing as a Windows livecd yet, or are you still pretty much just screwed when something goes haywire?
[02:48] <craigbass1976> Sorry, that's offtopic, but it occurred to me as I booted to my livecd...
[02:49] <chickenbone> well_laid_lawn: Man I haven't see you in ages. How are things?
[02:52] <K4k> craigbass1976: if you have a copy of windows xp there is a way to use it to create a BartPE image, it's fairly well documented
[02:55] <K4k> in case anyone was wondering, found the fix http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11382985&postcount=2
[02:55] <K4k> (for the sig error, not the login error)
[03:00] <craigbass1976> K4k, bah... I got all excited...  I tried to move /home/me as root, and voila!  I can log into the GUI.  I'm curious as to what the offensive file is...
[03:01] <K4k> craigbass1976: move /home/me as root to where?
[03:01] <K4k> looks like I did have an incomplete update, however, after finishing the update and rebooting I still receive the same error
[03:06] <K4k> I stopped lightdm and tty7 has the brief text up on screen, it says: "PulseAudio configured for per-user sessions  saned disabled; edit /etc/default/saned  mountall: Plymouth command failed  mountall: Disconnected from Plymouth" Does that mean anything to anyone?
[03:11] <craigbass1976> K4k, to /home/me.bak
[03:11] <K4k> so moving your home directory and allowing the system to re-create it fixed the issue?
[03:11] <K4k> that seems odd
[03:11] <craigbass1976> K4k, then recreated me and chowned it gave me:me
[03:12] <K4k> hmmm
[03:12] <craigbass1976> chowned it me:me.  Sorry
[03:13] <Gunz4MiPPle> if I set compiz to autostart in my xubuntu session, should it be autostarting when I log into Gnome session, which should be gnome shell?
[03:14] <craigbass1976> So there's some file screwing me up.  I know it's not .profile (which is what one thread on the uibuntu forums suggested) and not the .config directory as well_laid_lawn had me try.  I could go through each and every file in the old /home/me, but it's too much for now.
[03:14] <K4k> I wonder if having my home directory encrypted could have anything to do with this...
[03:14] <craigbass1976> K4k, I've heard that causes issues, but mine wasn't encrypted...
[03:15] <K4k> I'm thinking this machine actually isn't either, I usually do but it does not appear encrypted at the moment
[03:24] <K4k> craigbass1976: do you have a radeon card?
[04:37] <Anom01y> Hi, should Ubuntu 10.04 detect printers being plugged in ? specifically this one -->  brother dcp-7065DN
[04:37] <Anom01y> because it does not, I've tried resetting the computer, unplugging / plugging it in ect ect.
[04:37] <Anom01y> no lick
[04:37] <Anom01y> luck
[04:38] <pleia2> it automatically detects my brother laser printer, but it probably depends on the model, have you tried just going to the Printing app and adding it manually?
[06:20] <Infekted> Hello
[08:30] <cjs> Where is information on my sessions for the Xfce session manager  (xfce4-session) stored?
[08:31] <dirtycookie> hi people, i have installed xubuntu freshly on a system with a lan and wlan card
[08:32] <dirtycookie> now my question is, how do i tell the system that it should do nothing when inserting a usb-wlan-stick
[08:33] <cjs> Hm. Looks like in .config/autostart, at least partially?
[08:34] <dirtycookie> and another question, i have removed accidentally the wlan sound pidgin indicator beside the date. on the upper right corner. how can i restore that
[08:35] <cjs> dirtycookie: That's in the panel. You can right click on the panel, chose "Panel" then "Preferences" from the drop-down menus, and you can then tweak your panel, add new things to it (or old things back), etc.
[08:36] <cjs> As for the usb-wlan stick, I think it should do pretty much nothing by default (except maybe tell you it's been added) when you plug it in. Do you see something different?
[08:37] <dirtycookie> cjs: for the adding items part, what is the item called? as 4 the usb-wlan, the stick gets automatically an ip and i end up with 2 ips on the machine
[08:40] <dirtycookie> cjs: i solved the panel part
[08:41] <dirtycookie> now i need only help with the usb-wlan stick
[08:49] <cjs> Hm. Well, you can manually disconnect the USB stick by clicking on the networking icon in the panel, right?
[08:49] <zus> hello
[08:49] <zus> how is everyone?
[08:49] <cjs> It might be easiest just to let it do what it does, though; the second "connection" should be harmless.
[08:50] <zus> which folder would i put a folder of icons (themes) so that i may choose a theme at will?
[08:51] <dirtycookie> cjs: true but i have other plans
[08:51] <dirtycookie> with it
[08:51] <cjs> dirtycookie: In that case, can you set up your new connection in Network Manager, and make it an autoconnect one? Or will it end up using the internal for that?
[08:53] <cjs> Ah. Network Manager has a "Device MAC address" box that lets you lock a connection to a specific device.
[08:53] <cjs> So set up an auto connection locked to that device, and I suspect that wil come up automatically when you insert the USB WiFi dongle.
[08:54] <dirtycookie> cjs: i will try that
[08:54] <cjs> I presume you know enough about network that you know what you're doing when dealing with a host with multiple interfaces.
[08:54] <dirtycookie> cjs: yea i do, and im used to edit the interfaces file and do things manually. that is all
[08:55] <cjs> Ah, ok. You'll be pleased to know that all the NetworkManager stuff is still under /etc if you chose "share with everybody on this comptuer" or whatever that option is, so it's still pretty comprehensible and manageable with etckeeper and all.
[08:55] <dirtycookie> cjs: do u know btw how to change the font and font-size of the embedded terminal of gedit
[08:55] <cjs> Not off-hand; I'm a vim user.
[08:56] <dirtycookie> ah k
[08:56] <dirtycookie> cjs: the reason that im asking is that i have a eeepc with a small screen size and need therefore a smaller font
[08:57] <dirtycookie> prolly you can help
[08:57] <cjs> Vim in xterm will give you a nice small font. :-)
[08:57] <cjs> dirtycookie: in general, you might start with the DPI of your screen under "Appearance" in the settings manager. That will affect a lot of stuff.
[08:58] <dirtycookie> cjs: is not my machine that is y and the people @ #gnome are sleeping prolly
[08:58] <cjs> That DPI is for your account only; it will not affect anybody else.
[08:59] <cjs> Hang on, got to leave and come back due to messed-up fonts....
[08:59] <cjs> Back.
[09:00] <dirtycookie> cjs: ok one last thing, i need the taskbar in the top pane back, how do i do that??
[09:00] <dirtycookie> i know add item but which one
[09:01] <cjs> The taskbar. Hm. What did that do?
[09:01] <cjs> Oh, show a list of running windows?
[09:02] <dirtycookie> yes
[09:02] <cjs> My guess is that would be "Window Buttons," but I'm not sure. I don't use it.
[09:02] <cjs> There's also a "Window Menu" one, too.
[09:03] <dirtycookie> ah cool was windows buttons
[09:04] <cjs> Wow. All this help from me, and I've only been using Xfce for a few days. :-)
[09:04] <dirtycookie> lol
[09:05] <zus> which folder does a folder for icon themes go into so that i can change them at will?
[09:12] <well_laid_lawn> zus: put it in ~/.icons
[09:13] <cjs> Hibernating. Good luck, dirtycookie.
[09:14] <dirtycookie> cjs: thanks
[09:16] <zus> well_laid_lawn,  thank you,
[09:16] <well_laid_lawn> cheers :)
[09:17] <dirtycookie> ah... another question, where do i change to monospace font??
[09:22] <dirtycookie> anyone??
[09:24] <zus> well_laid_lawn,  i had to create the .icons folder. but it worked. now were i to change one or two icons from a theme already in the lists, where can i find that folder?
[09:25] <well_laid_lawn> zus: have a look in /usr/share/icons maybe
[09:25] <well_laid_lawn> dirtycookie: change the font in what app?
[09:26] <dirtycookie> the embedded terminal of gedit
[09:26] <dirtycookie> xubuntu has my desired font and font-size but the embedded terminal has a different font-size
[09:26] <well_laid_lawn> i've no idea I don't use gedit
[09:27] <well_laid_lawn> might be more gedit users in #ubuntu
[09:27] <dirtycookie> i went to the irc channel of gedit and they said that i "need to set the monospace font size"
[09:27] <dirtycookie> so where do i do that
[09:27] <dirtycookie> ??
[09:30] <zus> thanks well_laid_lawn  now i know where to find them. ta!
[11:57] <zacarias> what's a broken package? How do you solve it?
[12:05] <TheSheep> solve what?
[14:56] <Guest88682> how would i go about adding a program to startup in xubuntu
[15:09] <ablomen> Guest88682, settings => session and startup => application autostart => add
[15:22] <Zacarias> is it possible to install the latest version of Xfce from Xubuntu 10.10?
[15:35] <aboudreault> Hi, is it possible to have a SHOW ALL WINDOWS for xfce4 in xubuntu oneiric?
[16:15] <focalt> yo guys
[16:15] <focalt> I don't know what's wrong with my system
[16:15] <focalt> after installing a rt-kernel
[16:15] <focalt> I get this when sudoing
[16:15] <focalt> focalt is not in the sudoers file.  This incident will be reported.
[16:16] <focalt> what's wrong?
[16:17] <GridCube> focalt: you are trying to su?
[16:17] <GridCube> or to sudo?
[16:17] <focalt> sudo
[16:18] <focalt> or just install something with synaptic
[16:19] <GridCube> you should ask on #ubuntu-kernel
[16:19] <focalt> ok
[16:19] <focalt> thanks
[16:20] <GridCube> i mean its not that i don't want to help you, its just that i dont know
[16:22] <focalt> it seams that my username isn't in the admin group
[16:22] <focalt> I type groups in the terminal
[16:22] <focalt> all I get is focalt audio
[16:24] <GridCube> regroup you
[16:24] <GridCube> oh
[16:24] <GridCube> you cant
[16:25] <GridCube> because your not on the sudoers
[16:26] <genii-around> focalt: Was that username the one you made during install? eg: is it's uid 1000 or something more
[16:27] <genii-around> ( only first user has admin/sudo by default )
[16:27] <focalt> genii-around, yes
[16:27] <focalt> it's the only user I created. I created it during system install
[16:28] <focalt> genii-around, I'm not sure how to check the uid...
[16:28] <genii-around> focalt: Did you do something like try to add it to another group with usermod -g command ? If you don't use -a ( append ) it makes that group the only one you belong to
[16:29] <focalt> yes I did sudo usermod -G audio focalt
[16:29] <genii-around> focalt: There's your problem then
[16:30] <focalt> hum...
[16:32] <focalt> genii-around, what is my workaround?
[16:32] <genii-around> focalt: Boot up to recovery, then edit the /etc/group file and put your username back into the correct groups.
[16:34] <focalt> genii-around, admin group should do it no?
[16:34] <genii-around> focalt: My default groups here are: mike adm dialout cdrom www-data video plugdev lpadmin admin sambashare           as example. You probably need at least adm/admin video plugdev lpadmin and cdrom
[16:34] <genii-around> focalt: Not unless you want to have use admin rights every time to print something or have usb devices detected, etc
[17:11] <Vlyn> Can anyone please help me with getting my java plugin for firefox back? :-( (Xubuntu)
[17:13] <GridCube> Vlyn: how it went off?
[17:14] <Vlyn> GridCube: Java suddenly stopped working properly (Firefox freezes). I reinstalled Java but killed the firefox plugin for it. It’s installed again but ff doesn’t recognize it
[17:15] <Vlyn> How do I tell Firefox to use Java again?
[17:15] <Vlyn> (IcedTea I think, couldn’t find the SUN one in the packages)
[17:16] <Vlyn> I already invested an hour for this problem, so don’t think I’m too lazy to google ^^
[17:16] <GridCube> im looking
[17:18] <GridCube> Vlyn: tried this: http://www.chayx.net/2011/06/how-to-switch-firefox-java-plugin-to-sun-java-on-ubuntu-linux.html
[17:18] <Vlyn> Uhm… I don’t have the Sun Java Plugin
[17:19] <Vlyn> I have IcedTea and the firefox integration is gone
[17:19] <GridCube> http://technonstop.com/install-java-plugin-ubuntu-linux
[17:19] <GridCube> ?
[17:20] <Vlyn> And I don’t have Oracle Java
[17:20] <Vlyn> I think…
[17:21] <Vlyn> Hmm but lemme try
[17:21] <GridCube> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1770326
[17:22] <GridCube> Vlyn: apparently if you have two concurrent java engines installed it will cause a lot of problems, check that you are using only one
[17:22] <Vlyn> GridCube: Works, thanks
[17:22] <Vlyn> Or lets say… it works basically
[17:23] <Vlyn> But the app I want to start doesn’t work
[17:23] <Vlyn> Do you see the contents of the java app at www.knuddels.at?
[17:23] <Vlyn> Maybe it’s a problem with a newer version?
[17:24] <GridCube> i do not know
[17:24] <Vlyn> Is it grey for you?
[17:25] <GridCube> its a lot of pink
[17:25] <GridCube> readed this last one? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1770326
[17:33] <Vlyn> Hm, yeah
[17:33] <Vlyn> But there should be a login
[17:33] <Vlyn> Not only pink
[17:33] <Vlyn> GridCube: In the content window (middle of screen) is there only a gray field?
[17:33] <Vlyn> Or a login prompt?
[17:35] <GridCube> a loging prompt
[17:35] <Vlyn> Damn
[17:35] <GridCube> but im not using xubuntu now
[17:35] <Vlyn> Okay ^^
[17:35] <Vlyn> But the website works…
[17:35] <GridCube> im at work whit an xp machine :P
[17:35] <GridCube> yes it does
[17:35] <Vlyn> Ewwww
[17:35] <Vlyn> Hmm… maybe I should find a way to switch to SUN Java
[17:35] <Vlyn> But it’s not in the Software Center -.-
[17:37] <Vlyn> oh wait… found a way i hope
[17:37] <GridCube> you might need a ppa
[17:37] <GridCube> !info java
[17:37] <Vlyn> add-apt-repository
[17:37] <GridCube> thats a ppa yes
[17:37] <Vlyn> oh, cool ^^
[17:37] <Vlyn> What means ppa?
[17:37] <Vlyn> (Full text)
[17:38] <genii-around> Personal Package Archive
[17:38] <GridCube> !ppa
[17:38] <Vlyn> Thanks :-)
[17:40] <Vlyn> !addppa
[17:41] <Vlyn> It works again!
[17:41] <Vlyn> Hail Sun Java :-)
[17:41] <Vlyn> Thanks guys ^^
[17:55] <dirtycookie> hi people, i have the latest version of xubuntu and added gedit with the embedded terminal plugin
[17:55] <dirtycookie> altough i have set a certain font-size, the plugin has a way larger size
[18:02] <Netoniel> helllloooooo
[18:02] <vooze> I'm trying to run win xp in virtualbox on xubuntu 11.10 but it cant find my GFX card, is there anything im missing in virtualbox?
[18:04] <tsaavik> Hey all, sometimes when I open a gnome-terminal I get a triangular pull tab at the bottom right (for re-sizing the window), sometimes I don't. Any ideas on how to enable that?
[18:05] <well_laid_lawn> tsaavik: I have to ask why you choose to use gnome terminal in a xfce environment?
[18:06] <lamont> in a similar vein, given xfce installed on top of ubuntu-desktop, hints on how to get screen locking to work?
[18:07] <tsaavik> well_laid_lawn: I'm a gnome refugee. My helper scripts spawn gnome terminals, I can change them. Last terminal I used before gnome was Aterm (yes afterstep, lol), so not sure whats best to use.
[18:08] <tsaavik> lamont: mouse -> settings -> screensaver
[18:08] <tsaavik> (the little blue mouse that spawns the menu)
[18:08] <well_laid_lawn> tsaavik: xfce has its' own terminal
[18:09] <lamont> tsaavik: yeah... I need something to populate "screensaver" so that it's on th emenu
[18:09] <tsaavik> well_laid_lawn: xfce4-terminal ?
[18:09] <well_laid_lawn> yeppers
[18:09] <tsaavik> ah cool, and it has a triange (diffrent one, but it works) thanks
[18:11]  * lamont installs xubuntu-desktop just to get all the bits
[18:12] <tsaavik> lamont: oh, you want a button. I think ctrl-alt-del is mapped by default. I added ctrl-alt-l because ctrl-alt-del is kinda a scarey habbit to get used to  :D
[18:14] <lamont> how does one do these mappings in xubuntu?
[18:26] <tsaavik> lamont: sorry, was on another window. mouse -> settings ->keyboard -> application shortcuts
[18:26] <tsaavik> xflock4 seems to be the lock command
[18:27] <well_laid_lawn> tsaavik: you'll have to call it the menu not mouse or you'll confuse ppl
[18:28] <well_laid_lawn> most settings are in menu-settings or menu-system
[18:28] <tsaavik> hehe, okay, how about 'right click desktop' -> settings -> keybaord -> application shortcuts   :D
[18:28] <well_laid_lawn> works fine ;)
[18:29] <JamesMiddendorff> is there a disc management tool in xubuntu?
[18:29] <Vlyn> I want to know that too!
[18:29] <GridCube> disc management?
[18:29] <Vlyn> Ubuntu had a really nice one
[18:30] <tsaavik> like a gui for looking around in the filesystems?
[18:30] <GridCube> i dont know whats that
[18:30] <Vlyn> Disc Space
[18:30] <GridCube> oh
[18:30] <GridCube> gparted?
[18:30] <JamesMiddendorff> tsaavik, like it allows you to format drives and stuff
[18:30] <Vlyn> What files you have and so on
[18:30] <Vlyn> Looked like a cake diagram
[18:30] <Vlyn> Oh okay, false one :-)
[18:30] <GridCube> oh
[18:30] <tsaavik> disk usage analyzer?
[18:30] <GridCube> no idea
[18:30] <tsaavik> right click desktop -> accessories -> disk usage analyzer
[18:31] <GridCube> XD
[18:31] <GridCube> last time i used one of those things was on konqueror back in 05
[18:31] <JamesMiddendorff> tsaavik, I thought it was in the livecd but after I did the install it was gone
[18:31] <GridCube> yes
[18:31] <well_laid_lawn> gparted isn't installed as a default app
[18:31] <GridCube> the cd has software that the installation does not
[18:31] <Vlyn> Don’t have that
[18:31] <GridCube> like gparted
[18:32] <GridCube> !gparted
[18:32] <tsaavik> A commandline equiv to disk usage analyzer is 'du --max-depth=1 -x |sort -n' :D very handy when looking for some free space :D
[18:32] <GridCube> !boabab
[18:33] <well_laid_lawn> df -h   is a shorter version
[18:33] <GridCube> !info boabab
[18:33] <GridCube> :(
[18:33] <tsaavik> well_laid_lawn: the du is better because you can traverse the tree and run it at each level
[18:33] <GridCube> !info baobab
[18:33] <GridCube> :)
[18:33] <GridCube> !baobab
[18:33] <GridCube> oh well
[18:34] <JamesMiddendorff> GridCube, I know what gparted but it wasnt gparted, unless xubuntu changes the name in the menu to something else
[18:34] <GridCube> that shoud do it sudo apt-get install baobab
[18:34] <jcfp> JamesMiddendorff: could be you're looking for gnome-disk-utility
[18:34] <JamesMiddendorff> jcfp, hrmm maybe I wonder if that was what I saw
[18:36] <GridCube> JamesMiddendorff: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Baobab
[18:37] <GridCube> sudo apt-get install baobab
[18:41] <lamont> tsaavik: success!  thanks
[18:42] <Powergiant> Hey guys. I have a problem with my mp3 player in xubuntu. When I had ubuntu, it would automount, but it dosn't in xubuntu. I can see it via lsusb. Do i have to maunally mount it or can it be automated.?
[18:42] <lamont> next up... I want the Compose ability I had under gnome 2... where do I assign that keybinding, I wonder?
[18:43] <tsaavik> lamont: right click desktop -> settings -> window manager tweaks
[18:43] <tsaavik> not sure if thats installed by default
[18:44] <tsaavik> there is a 'Compositor' tab
[18:44] <pollo> hi, i need help ;___;
[18:44] <pollo> any play heroes of newerth ?
[18:44] <tsaavik> help is a bash builtin, you should have it :D
[18:45] <lamont> tsaavik: doesn't show up for me...
[18:46] <tsaavik> The tab, or the tweaks app?
[18:46] <pollo> please man
[18:46] <lamont> right click on desktop gives me a menu with "Desktop settings" that lacks a tweaks tab
[18:46] <lamont> ah. settings -> window manager tweaks
[18:47] <pollo> in linux mint 11 hon have good fps, but in xubuntu 11.10 open gl dont work
[18:47] <pollo> very slow
[18:47] <lamont> tsaavik: this is the ability to type things like "<compose>12" and get 1/2 as a single character glyph in unicode
[18:48] <lamont> tsaavik: which seems different from the Compositor tab
[18:48] <tsaavik> lamont: oh sorry, no idea on that.
[18:49] <tsaavik> pollo: maybe try installing the binary video card drivers
[18:50] <pollo> nvidia settings ?
[18:50] <tsaavik> pollo: right click desktop, settings, additional driveres
[18:50] <pollo> i have it
[18:51] <pollo> yeah yeah, i have 280.13
[18:51] <tsaavik> ah, then you should have gl
[18:51] <tsaavik> what does glxgears show
[18:51] <pollo> but are very slow
[18:52] <tsaavik> for refrence, I get 301 frames in 5.0 seconds = 60.000 FPS on a builtin intel i5 video card with non-properitary drivers
[18:52] <tsaavik> which is capped to the refresh rate
[18:53] <pollo> i see all datas of glx
[18:54] <tsaavik> can you pastebin it?
[18:55] <tsaavik> do you see the 3 rgb gears?
[18:56] <pollo> GLX_EXT_visual_info
[18:56] <pollo> GLX_EXT_visual_rating
[18:56] <pollo> GLX_SGIX_fbconfig
[18:56] <pollo> GLX_SGIX_pbuffer
[18:56] <pollo> GLX_SGI_video_sync
[18:56] <pollo> GLX_SGI_swap_control
[18:56] <pollo> GLX_EXT_swap_control
[18:56] <pollo> GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap
[18:56] <pollo> GLX_ARB_create_context
[18:56] <pollo> GLX_ARB_create_context_profile
[18:56] <pollo> GLX_EXT_create_context_es2_profile
[18:56] <pollo> GLX_ARB_create_context_robustness
[18:56] <pollo> GLX_ARB_multisample
[18:56] <pollo> GLX_NV_float_buffer
[18:56] <pollo> GLX_ARB_fbconfig_float
[18:56] <pollo> GLX_EXT_framebuffer_sRGB
[18:57] <pollo> GLX_ARB_get_proc_address
[18:57] <tsaavik> so no window with 3 spinning gears?
[18:57] <genii-around> !pastebin
[18:57] <well_laid_lawn> !paste | pollo
[18:58]  * genii-around slides well_laid_lawn a coffee
[18:58] <pollo> sorry, i noob
[18:58]  * well_laid_lawn appreciates a good coffe :)
[18:59] <tsaavik> pollo: it looks like your drivers arn't working, I'd focus on that. Maybe try a reboot and see if 'lsmod |grep nvidia' shows anything. I have to run for a bit, bbl.
[18:59] <pollo> ok, thx :)
[19:00] <pollo> lsmod |grep nvidia =  nvidia              11713772  42
[19:01] <well_laid_lawn> !nvidia | pollo
[19:01] <lamont> now how do I unmute this fine machine? (or get sound working - works under unity)
[19:02] <well_laid_lawn> lamont: tried running   alsamixer -c 0   in a terminal and turning things up?
[19:03] <well_laid_lawn> !info pavucontrol
[19:04] <lamont> well_laid_lawn: interestingly, they're already all the way up
[19:05] <well_laid_lawn> lamont: make sure none have a m at the bottom
[19:05] <well_laid_lawn> well none you want to use
[19:05] <lamont> correct
[19:05] <lamont> alsamixer and I go back a ways in time
[19:13] <well_laid_lawn> try pavucontrol then
[19:27] <rhin0> not sure why -- my ssd is showing half capacity (installed xubuntu 11.10) ... what could be the reason for an ssd showing 1/2 capacity ... could it be deteriorating?  I have done multiple multiple installs onto it
[19:28] <well_laid_lawn> rhin0: do you use trim with the ssd
[19:28] <well_laid_lawn> ?
[19:29] <rhin0> well_laid_lawn: I just install standard don't change anything -- I would have thought that in order to install onto an SSD linux needs "trim"
[19:29] <well_laid_lawn> rhin0: I no nothing about ssd's except that they needtrim
[19:38] <sysadm_> org.eclipse.swt.SWTError: No more handles [Could not detect registered XULRunner to use] what should i do
[19:41] <sysadm_> org.eclipse.swt.SWTError: No more handles [Could not detect registered XULRunner to use] what should i do
[20:45] <csenger41> hello :)
[20:47] <csenger41> anyone could help me giving executable bit for a file on ntfs?
[20:48] <well_laid_lawn> csenger41: do you want to run the app in wine?
[20:49] <well_laid_lawn> chmod -v a+x /path/to/file   normally works
[20:50] <csenger41> ive tried chmod +x filename but it didnt work
[20:50] <darkgod_> alguien que hable español?
[20:50] <well_laid_lawn> !es
[20:50] <csenger41> once ive found a guide editing some fmask
[20:51] <well_laid_lawn> csenger41: is it a windows application?
[20:51] <csenger41> yup
[20:52] <well_laid_lawn> csenger41: you can't run that in linux except through wine
[20:52] <well_laid_lawn> !wine
[20:53] <csenger41> well_laid_lawn: i know, but the needs to be given executable bit
[20:53] <csenger41> *but the exe needs
[20:54] <well_laid_lawn> Join #winehq for application help
[20:55] <csenger41> well_laid_lawn: well ok
[20:55] <well_laid_lawn> cheers
[20:59] <tsaavik> you don't need trim to make SSDs work. Its just a 'nice to have' kinda thing.
[20:59] <csenger41> tsaavik: hm?
[20:59] <tsaavik> @rhin0, sounds like he has a mis-partitioned SSD
[21:00] <well_laid_lawn> afaik trim is needed to properly empty space after file removal
[21:00] <tsaavik> nah, its just a performance thing
[21:01] <well_laid_lawn> you need to research that better
[21:02] <tsaavik> without trim, the manner in which files are deleted are not optimal for an SSD
[21:02] <tsaavik> it won't make your 80GB SSD suddenly boot up as 40GB
[21:03] <tsaavik> and yeah, its not GREAT to run an ssd without trim, but its also not great to run them mounted with atime and with the wrong prefetcher, but they still work.
[21:10] <tsaavik> I can confirm that 11.10 still dosn't mount drives with trim by default. discard is missing from fstab :(
[21:10] <tsaavik> maybe its still not considered stable?
[21:11] <tsaavik> [532394.179917] EXT4-fs (sda1): re-mounted. Opts: discard,errors=remount-ro,user_xattr,discard
[21:11] <tsaavik> If i suddenly disappear from irc, you'll know it isn't :D
[21:12] <w30> I need a /dev/mixer. I tried making sym links to some /dev/snd/by-path files (dev) but that didn't work.
[21:12] <tsaavik> You'll need to enable oss emulation, alsa has a mode for this, IF, you are running alsa
[21:13] <tsaavik> checkout snd-pcm-oss
[21:13] <tsaavik> (its a module/kernel option)
[21:14] <w30> tsaavik, I have alsamixer and pulse. I don't know if I hhave alsa
[21:15] <well_laid_lawn> if you have alsamixer you have alsa
[21:15] <tsaavik> try, modprobe snd-pcm-oss
[21:15] <w30> tsaavik, how do I know?
[21:16] <tsaavik> lsmod |egrep "alsa|oss" (unless you compiled them into your kernel)
[21:16] <w30> tsaavik, well I don't have snd pcm oss
[21:17] <tsaavik> yup, you'll need that if you want /dev/mixer
[21:17] <well_laid_lawn> !find oss
[21:17] <well_laid_lawn> install alsa-oss
[21:18] <tsaavik> once you get it working you can tweak where the mappings of the oss mixer to the alsa one by echoing into "/proc/asound/card0/oss_mixer"
[21:18] <tsaavik> course, you might get lucky and it will work outta the box
[21:19] <w30> tsaavik, cx88_alsa              18535  2  shows up
[21:19] <tsaavik> yeah, do what well said "install alsa-oss && modprobe snd-pcm-oss"
[21:20] <tsaavik> brb, nuking a fancy 99cent lunch.
[21:22] <w30> tsaavik, well_laid_lawn, thank you
[21:24] <tsaavik> grats. So what ancient program you trying to get working? :D
[21:26] <drvladimirtzu> I have Windows 7 installed to sdb2, but for whatever reason grub doesn't have a windows listing at startup.  How can I get it there?
[21:26]  * sugar_Xubuntu testing Sweets_Distribution Sugar 0.94 on Xubuntu 11.04
[21:27] <marko_> evning
[21:27] <marko_> Anybody here
[21:28] <tsaavik> drvladimirt you need to edit your grub config. I believe there is a gui tool to assist with this, trying to remeber the name
[21:33] <tsaavik> here is one, I have 0 experience with it: http://www.installubuntulinux.com/2011/05/grubcustomizer-guiconfigurationtool.html
[21:33] <moetunes> !grub | drvladimirtzu
[21:34] <tsaavik> yeah, suprisingly nothing about GUIs in the Grub2 doc
[21:39] <csenger41> hello again
[21:40] <csenger41> please help where can i find that feature where i can set up Xubuntu to show all windows near each other
[22:01] <w30> tsaavik, I can't get snd-pcm-oss out of alsa-oss and snd-pcm is not in the repos.  There is a link to a guide at the bottom of that
[22:30] <tsaavik> w30, what exactly are you trying to do? I assume you have some ancient audio software you want to make work?
[22:31] <w30> tsaavik, tvtime wants /dev/mixer for volume control
[22:33] <moetunes> oss should have been a dependency of tvtime then
[22:33] <moetunes> !info tvtime
[22:35] <tsaavik> moetunes: yeah, thats his problem, he can't get the alsa oss emulation module loaded
[22:35] <tsaavik> looks like they took it out of the kernel by default :(
[22:35] <w30> the tvtime people have been fired or have quit,
[22:36] <w30> pulse seems to be beta 1 software
[22:36] <w30> can't win
[22:37] <tsaavik> w30: here is a command i found for going direct to alsa. startup tvtime and once running try: sox -t alsa hw:1,0 -t alsa hw:0,0
[22:38] <tsaavik> here is another thing to try
[22:38] <tsaavik> tvtime --mixer=hw:0/Line
[22:39] <tsaavik> that was reported to work in 11.04
[22:43] <w30> tsaavik,  tvtime --mixer=hw:0/Line works
[22:43] <tsaavik> woot
[22:44] <w30> tsaavik, good enough for me, thanks man that way way beyond me
[22:45] <tsaavik> your just tellinging tvtime to use the newer alsa interface instead of oss. Thank the tvtime people :D
[22:47] <olbi> hello
[22:47] <tsaavik> hello
[22:47] <lolwut> Has anyone had any trouble with the network manager in 11.10? I can't get it to work properly. Upon login I have no network connection and the only way I can get it to work is to ifdown then ifup the interface
[22:48] <lolwut> Once I have my wireless card up I have Internet access but the network manage still says "device not ready"
[22:48] <lolwut> Google has failed me here, and I am at a loss as to what to do next
[22:49] <olbi> I have problem, when I want change in nvidia-settings change tab CRT-1
[22:49] <olbi> The program 'nvidia-settings' received an X Window System error.
[22:49] <olbi> This probably reflects a bug in the program.
[22:49] <olbi> The error was 'BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation)'.
[22:49] <olbi>   (Details: serial 204 error_code 2 request_code 140 minor_code 19)
[22:49] <olbi>   (Note to programmers: normally, X errors are reported asynchronously;
[22:49] <olbi>    that is, you will receive the error a while after causing it.
[22:49] <olbi>    To debug your program, run it with the --sync command line
[22:49] <olbi>    option to change this behavior. You can then get a meaningful
[22:49] <olbi>    backtrace from your debugger if you break on the gdk_x_error() function.)
[22:49] <lolwut> use paste bin, olbi
[22:50] <olbi> sorry :P
[22:51] <olbi> http://paste2.org/p/1738831
[22:51] <olbi> I have GeForce 6600GT with NVIDIA drivers
[22:52] <olbi> but this problem is again, first problem was with GF FX5200
[22:52] <tsaavik> olbi: its been a while since i've run my 6600, but as i recall I had to load nvidia-legacy
[22:52] <tsaavik> or something to that effect
[22:53] <olbi> weird is that, that nvidia settings cant load x server display configuration :P
[22:54] <tsaavik> I also had horrible issues with X running out of video ram while trying to run 9.x ubuntu.
[22:55] <olbi> but why I have default 173 while the newest are 285 for this card?:P
[22:55] <tsaavik> my xterms would open as black windows :(
[22:56] <olbi> :(
[23:01] <chickenbone> Is there a way I can download the restricted extras package and transfer them to my desktop PC?
[23:10] <w30> agemoi100
[23:28] <Glitter_Gulch> Hello
[23:29] <Glitter_Gulch> What does every one think of 11.10
[23:40] <tsaavik> I regret moving from 11.04 mainline, fortunately xbuntu was there to make things usable again.
[23:42] <gasbag> tsaavik: That's where I'm at too.  I'm trying to pick up the pieces.


[03:03] <JanetFLorida> can anyone suggest how I resolve the memory leak in the repository version of dansguardian? it is a known bug, a new source version repairs, i just don't know how to make it ...
[03:07] <ScottK> What version?  What release are you running?  What version fixes it?
[03:09] <JanetFLorida> i'm trying to compile <IP_ADDRESS>, unsuccessfully
[03:09] <JanetFLorida> i think repository has ver 2.7 or 2.8
[03:10] <ScottK> What release of Ubuntu are you running?
[03:10] <JanetFLorida> 7.04
[03:14] <JanetFLorida> actually, somebody suggested i to a build-dep, which seems to have resolved my compile probs...
[03:14] <ScottK> Gutsy and Debian unstable have the same upstream version (2.8) and the bug fixes between the Feisty and Gutsy versions do not seem to have anything regarding memory leaks.
[03:14] <ScottK> JanetFLorida: What build dep?
[03:14] <JanetFLorida> dansguardian
[03:14] <JanetFLorida> apt-get build-dep dansg....
[03:15] <ScottK> Ah, that installs the build dependencies for dansguardian.  Yes, you'd have to do that.
[03:15] <JanetFLorida> i'm lerning :)
[03:15] <ScottK> No problem.
[03:16] <ScottK> At this point then I think there isn't a lot more that I can do to help.  It'll either work or not.  Good luck.
[03:17] <JanetFLorida> i guess i have to point it to a correct install dir...
[03:47] <ConfidentiaL> When I'm setting up a server, do I really need swap-space?
[03:48] <ScottK> Yes
[03:48] <ScottK> Is there a reason you don't want it?
[03:49] <ScottK> Actually, I guess you don't NEED it.
[03:50] <ConfidentiaL> cuz the harddisk I'm using is 2gigs... :/
[03:50] <ConfidentiaL> and I have plenty of memory
[03:51] <ScottK> Ah.  Well then no, you don't need swap.
[03:51] <ConfidentiaL> but I dont get errors or something if I install without having a swap partition?
[03:52] <ScottK> I'm not sure as I've never tried to install without swap.
[03:53] <ScottK> I'd suggest give it a go and see what happens.
[03:53] <ConfidentiaL> ok, I'll try without the swap then...
[07:59] <qman> depending on the situation, swap space isn't required...I've got a couple machines with no swap partitions
[07:59] <qman> both of which have 2GB of RAM
[08:00] <qman> without X, I don't see why you couldn't run without swap on 512MB, depending on which services you're running
[08:01] <BFTD> I say if you have a gig or more of ram, swap is not needed, unless you have a gui installed
[09:07] <ConfidentiaL> I did the server install first without the swap, and I got some nasty errors. Then I tried with like 150mb of swap, and everything went much smoother. I'ts not that big a deal when I am using only 150mb for swap, so I couldn't be bothered trying anymore... I have somewhere above 512mb of RAM on it tho...
[09:18] <jbrouhard> dthacker you here ?


[00:11] <davef> Finally got me a shelving unit to put all my network crap.. https://twitter.com/DavieDavieDave/status/1546621211760906241/photo/1
[15:09] <daftykins> greetings
[15:09] <daftykins> hellish temps down here on the rock, i imagine it's far worse up north!
[15:10] <daftykins> been out and about doing more network cabling termination at the nearby dentists, now camped out in my granite ground floor where it's cool \o/
[15:10] <zxmpi> hope your magnum supply holds ou
[15:10] <zxmpi> *out
[15:10]  * zxmpi sips at cool pop that has warmed up to perfect slushiness
[15:11] <daftykins> i'm disappointed to say the freezer has been out of stock for a while
[15:11] <zxmpi> pop chocolate oranges in there and suck an icey segment every few hours?
[15:11] <daftykins> haha
[15:12] <daftykins> i've been getting by on a tank of water in the fridge, but i might treat myself to another iced coffee later in the week


[13:01] <lool> w00t
[13:01]  * stgraber waves
[13:01] <lool> barry, stgraber, ogra_, slangasek: hey
[13:01]  * barry blinks
[13:02]  * ogra_ shades his eyes to not get blinded by the bright blinking barry
[13:02] <lool> we need some background music too to go with the blinking
[13:03] <barry> blinded by science
[13:03] <lool> alright, lets keep this short  :-)
[13:03] <lool> Colin gave me a quick update
[13:04] <lool> he's helping with setting up the signing infrastructure for system-updates.u.c and will likely go physically to London to finish the setup
[13:05] <lool> download service >> barry, Daniel started a thread on this but I've just noticed that you're on it (sorry!); will forward it to you
[13:05] <lool> stgraber: so we have system-updates.u.c now live?  :-)
[13:05] <barry> lool: +1
[13:05] <lool> stgraber: tell us all about it
[13:05] <stgraber> we indeed have the system-image.ubuntu.com server and I've published a bunch of images for testing
[13:06] <lool> \o/
[13:06] <stgraber> those shouldn't be used though as they're signed by fake gpg keys at this point
[13:06] <stgraber> I'm currently in the process of automating the import of the daily rootfs builds (currently manually done) and will have to do the same with the Android builds but that should be easy
[13:07] <stgraber> the images themselves aren't terribly useful at this point though as they need a few changes applied to them to become usable (those changes are related to the container flip and loop-mount which hasn't landed yet in the archive)
[13:08] <lool> stgraber: cool; so essentially we have the real infrastrucure minus signing (in progress by Colin) and you're tuning the maintenance scripts we'll use and hooks to cdimage, then we can mass-generate all the images
[13:08] <stgraber> (well, container flip has, just not the loop-mount+read-only side of things)
[13:08] <stgraber> lool: yep
[13:08] <ogra_> planned to be implemented by end of this week
[13:08] <lool> so I guess this hooks us into ogra or ondra; maybe let's start wit the flipped images
[13:08] <ogra_> we will switch to flipped by default today or tomorrow
[13:08] <ogra_> and then start working on loop stuff
[13:08] <lool> ogra_: so they work on all devices now including n10?  awesome
[13:09] <ogra_> well, n10 still had crashers of the shell yesterday
[13:09] <stgraber> ogra_: cool. I'll paste you the latest version of my patching script, it's working great on at least mako and grouper, so we'll need to look at landing those changes in the archive
[13:09] <ogra_> i know rsalveti looked into that but dont know the outcome
[13:09] <lool> loop stuff > I thought Steve L wanted us to look into repartitioning
[13:09] <ogra_> 3G on mako works now (n4 that is)
[13:09] <lool> is the loop-mounting just for community supported devices? (non-nexus)
[13:09] <ogra_> stgraber, yeah
[13:10] <stgraber> lool: we'll support both
[13:10] <ogra_> lool, loop mounting is for all at the start
[13:10] <ogra_> and re-partitioning will be added in the first half of next month
[13:10] <lool> hmm ok; seems a bit indirect to me, but eh at least we will know it works
[13:10] <ogra_> as an additional option
[13:10] <lool> ok
[13:10] <stgraber> lool: when possible we'll repartition (galaxy nexus, nexus4 and nexus10) and support loop-mount for the rest (nexus7 and community ports)
[13:10] <ogra_> our images will default to it
[13:11] <ogra_> all community images will default to loop
[13:11] <lool> I'm guessing we'll have to revisit phablet-tools quite a bit for the new system-updates; this is a bit far off right now, but might be a good thing to look after once we have the updates working
[13:11] <ogra_> (with the option for the porter to switch indeed, *if* the device allows repartitioning)
[13:12] <lool> stgraber: is there a technical reason nexus 7 doesn't allow partitioning, or is it just that we don't want to spend too much time on it?
[13:12] <lool> or perhaps we keep it as a loop-mounted platform for our own testing
[13:12] <stgraber> lool: completely screwed up gpt setup
[13:12] <lool> eh ok
[13:12] <lool> oh crap, just lost ondra
[13:13] <ogra_> well, the n7 will be our loop reference install then :)
[13:13] <stgraber> lool: the partition table is at the end of the flash, with both the primary and secondary tables at the same place, invalid version number and some other issues, we figured it'd be easier just not to support it
[13:13] <lool> stgraber: OMG
[13:14] <lool> stgraber: and I guess the bootloader relies on these locations too
[13:14] <lool> outside of status of recovery ROM's support of gpg and xz with ondra, are there other points to cover today?
[13:14] <stgraber> lool: yeah, apparently the bootloader is at the location where the primary table should be, so if you use parted on it and you let it write the missing primary partition, you rick the device
[13:14] <lool> "rick" lol
[13:15] <stgraber> *risk :)
[13:15] <lool> your risk the device becomes a rock
[13:15] <stgraber> gah, not awake yet, sorry :)
[13:15] <lool> ondra: wb
[13:15] <stgraber> meant *brick obviously
[13:16] <lool> ondra: I think last point we had to cover was recovery ROM support for gpg and xz
[13:16] <ondra> lool: sorry my nautilus crashed and took whole ubuntu down
[13:16] <lool> np
[13:16] <lool> ondra: how are things going there/
[13:16] <lool> s#/#?#
[13:16] <ondra> so I did last night test recovery images with gpg in them for N4 and N7. stgraber has those now
[13:17] <lool> great; is this using android build system to build gnupg, or is this by copying glibc + other libs + gnupg from ubuntu binaries?
[13:17] <ondra> I managed to compile xz with android, but tar is one I'm still struggling with, so when I was looking for some tar alternative code and I found out that busybox has already tar and unxz support
[13:17] <ogra_> hmm ?
[13:18] <ondra> no this is build with android
[13:18] <lool> great; so you'll just turn on these configs in busybox?
[13:18] <ogra_> our zip contains a tarball
[13:18] <lool> (tar and xz)
[13:18] <ogra_> since forever
[13:18] <ogra_> so there must currenlt be some kind of tar
[13:18] <ogra_> *vurrently
[13:18] <ogra_> bah
[13:18] <ondra> but using NDK for the moment, and Android.mk on the way, hopefully we will soon have it from code
[13:18] <ondra> for now I sent patch with binary gpg to sergio who will add it to the git repo
[13:19] <lool> urgh
[13:19] <lool> that sounds pretty bad maintenance wise
[13:19]  * ogra_ wonders if lool has ever seen phablet.ubuntu.com :P
[13:19] <ondra> lool: so tar was in busybox always, but recently they also added unxz
[13:19] <ogra_> it is full of binary crap
[13:19] <ondra> lool: so this is already there
[13:19] <lool> I knew the toolchains were binary, didn't know we kept tons of binaries around
[13:20] <ogra_> we do
[13:20] <stgraber> ogra_: yep, that's what ondra noticed, so we'll be using busybox's tar and xz for now (they should be enough feature wise) and hack gpg into it until we can get a clean build of it
[13:20] <lool> or is this the repo were we keep things we've built from the source tree?
[13:20] <ogra_> stgraber, ondra ++
[13:20] <ogra_> lool, the plan is to properly weed it out and base on binaries from the archive
[13:20] <ogra_> its just a long and slow process
[13:21] <lool> stgraber: so you'll be hand-patching the recovery initrd to add the gpg binary and the scripts to verify updates?
[13:21] <ogra_> until then one more binary doesnt do harm
[13:21] <ondra> lool: I added gpg as binary just so stgraber can test, I don't plan it to have it that way, so Android build should be used
[13:21] <ondra> lool: same goes for xz and hopefully also for tar
[13:21] <lool> ogra_: who's workong on this part?
[13:21] <ondra> lool: I think we should eventually remove busybox from recovery
[13:21] <lool> ogra_: I'm aware of an effort to build the android daemons in the archive, didn't know about the effort to replace recovery rom (I thought it was just an idea if we're stuck)
[13:22] <ondra> lool: or we can tweak busybox to build only tar and unxz
[13:22] <ogra_> lool, xnox is doing the first shot on packaging the android bits ... then we'll have a base to work with and split it into smaller chunks
[13:22] <lool> ogra_: ok, so it's both for the android runtime and for the recovery rom then?
[13:22] <lool> I guess that makes sense
[13:22] <ogra_> lool, the plan is to have the whole android repo packaged
[13:22] <ondra> ogra_: so are we replacing android recovery with Ubuntu based one?
[13:22] <ogra_> no
[13:22] <stgraber> lool: for now we just want our recovery images to contain the tools we need for testing, after that I'll work on a shell script using those to apply the updates and when that thing works, will get it included too
[13:23] <ogra_> we use what we have, just from a package that we will then split into smaller pieces over time
[13:23] <ogra_> so you can eventually also apt-get install android-gpg ;)
[13:23] <lool> stgraber: assuming we wont have moved to Ubuntu initrds before you're done, will you be fine submitting your additions to phablet.u.c?  I guess sergiusens would be able to help you land these
[13:24] <ogra_> the builds will still spit out the device specific img files as usual during build
[13:24] <stgraber> lool: that's the plan
[13:24] <ogra_> (ramdisk, system, recovery)
[13:24] <lool> alright; anything else for today anyone?
[13:25] <barry> lool: just a quick one
[13:25] <lool> barry: shoot
[13:25] <barry> ondra: i'm almost at the point where i'm ready to work on reboot.  could you make sure that the interface between the client and upgrader is accurately documented here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImageBasedUpgrades/Upgrader
[13:26] <ondra> barry: I will check it, it should be according to what we in android code
[13:26] <barry> ondra: cool, thanks
[13:26] <ondra> barry: but as far ad I understand stgraber wants to use script to apply files
[13:27] <stgraber> ondra, barry: so since we're not actually calling the android upgrader but our own, the interface doesn't have to (and probably shouldn't) match the existing Android one
[13:27] <ondra> barry: so we probably should talk together what command we will actually store in that command file
[13:27] <stgraber> basically keeping the standard Android interface for rollbacks to Android (where we want to call the Android upgrader)
[13:28] <barry> mostly, i want to make sure we've documented, e.g. "write these files here with that content", "call this thing to do the reboot with these args", etc.  i don't want the code to be the only spec :)
[13:28] <ondra> stgraber: what we can do is that we put in that command file actual commands for for update
[13:28]  * barry nods
[13:28] <ondra> barry: agree, there should be documented way you pass information to recovery about downloaded files
[13:29] <stgraber> ondra: I'd prefer to keep the command file generic so avoid actual commands, what we need to pass it is an ordered list of file
[13:29] <stgraber> ondra: so my first thought would be to use an ubuntu_command file (instead of Android's command file) which contains just that (one line per file sorted in flash order)
[13:29] <ondra> stgraber: actually we can change current recovery so in Ubuntu Touch case, it will execute our shell script, passing command file as parameter
[13:30] <stgraber> barry: as for where to put stuff and how to trigger the reboot, I can help you with that part
[13:30] <ondra> stgraber: agree,command file should not have any commands, just list of files
[13:30] <barry> stgraber: ok
[13:30] <stgraber> ondra: my thought being that if the recovery finds /cache/recovery/command => triggers Android update code, if it finds /cache/recovery/ubuntu_command => triggers Ubuntu update code
[13:31] <barry> stgraber: i like that
[13:31] <ondra> stgraber: yeah, agree
[13:31] <stgraber> that way we don't really have to care about what Android does, we just avoid messing with its files
[13:31] <ondra> stgraber: and I'd pass then that ubuntu_command to your script as parameter
[13:31] <stgraber> ondra: yep
[13:32] <ondra> yep, and we keep full compatibility with android, so users can roll back any time
[13:33] <ondra> stgraber: OK I will look into recovery code and add it there, if we find ubuntu command file, we will go for it
[13:33] <stgraber> so I think that's a good plan for now, we may have some more changes on that after that meeting on the recovery environment which I believe slangasek's planning to have this week
[13:33] <lool> so next week: ogra switching to flipped images, shaking bugs; xnox continuing work on android bits in archive with new cross toolchain; stgraber working on scripts to apply updates in recovery ROM; ondra to enable xz in our recovery ROMs; barry joining download service discussion; ondra + barry syncing on reboot interface
[13:34] <barry> +1
[13:34] <lool> alright; slightly over time, but I think we're done; thanks guys!  it's great to see this coming together, update site going live, switching to flipped images etc.  :-)
[13:34] <lool> have a great EOD
[13:34] <stgraber> barry: I'll update the upgrader page on the wiki once I'm actually properly awake and done catching up on e-mail. I expect it to mostly say to dump the files in /android/cache/recovery, write the list of files in /android/cache/recovery/command and then call "reboot -f recovery" to apply
[13:35] <ogra_> ciao ciao
[13:35] <barry> stgraber: sounds easy :)
[13:36] <ondra> stgraber: I will read again android code, to see if they had usecase for something else than list of files in command file and let you know
[13:36] <ondra> see you guys
[15:57] <jamespage> o/
[15:59] <arosales> Hello
[16:00] <smoser> o/
[16:00] <arosales> Looks like it is top of the hour so I will kick this off (looks like I am on point to chair)
[16:00] <arosales> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
[16:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 25 16:00:39 2013 UTC.  The chair is arosales. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[16:00] <Daviey> o/
[16:00] <arosales> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[16:01] <arosales> looks like not actions from past meeting
[16:01] <arosales> #topic Saucy Development
[16:01] <arosales> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
[16:01] <arosales> A1 June 27th
[16:01] <arosales> smoser, jamespage is server opting in?
[16:02] <jamespage> nope
[16:02] <arosales> ok
[16:02] <arosales> #subtopic Release Bugs
[16:02] <arosales> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-s-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
[16:02] <smoser> no opt in.
[16:02] <arosales> jamespage, would you or smoser like to guide us through this section?
[16:02] <adam_g_> o/
[16:02] <jamespage> sure
[16:02] <arosales> jamespage, thanks.
[16:02] <jamespage> smoser: bug 1180867
[16:03] <smoser> hm..
[16:03] <jamespage> dosaboy, bug 962046
[16:03] <smoser> that is uploaded to raring
[16:04] <smoser> in the sru review queue
[16:04] <smoser> (the cloud-init bug)
[16:04] <jamespage> bug 1031680 and bug 1162139 need some love if anyone has time
[16:04] <jamespage> smoser, ack
[16:04] <jamespage> bug 1180084 needs to be applied into raring
[16:05] <jamespage> anyone know if we can do seed changes post release?
[16:05] <roaksoax> jamespage: we did it for MAAS
[16:05] <roaksoax> a few packages were promoted to main
[16:05] <jamespage> roaksoax, OK
[16:06] <jamespage> I don't think any other release bugs warrant discussion - alot are SRU's in Fix Committed state
[16:06] <jamespage> so anyone with spare time - verification would be great!
[16:06] <jamespage> arosales, back to you
[16:07] <arosales> jamespage thank you sir
[16:09] <arosales> sorry for the delay
[16:09] <arosales> #subtopic Blueprints
[16:10] <arosales> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-saucy/group/topic-saucy-servercloud-overview.html
[16:10] <arosales> how are BPs looking . . .
[16:10] <arosales> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/group/topic-s-servercloud-overview.html
[16:10] <arosales> this one works a little better
[16:10]  * arosales will udpate the IRC commands
[16:11] <jamespage> trend line needs a reset
[16:11] <jamespage> arosales, did you get to the bottom of my missing BP's?
[16:11] <arosales> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting/IRCCommands is updated
[16:11] <arosales> did yours ever show up?
[16:11] <arosales> I added a raw work item
[16:11] <arosales> jamespage what was the BP name again?
[16:11] <Daviey> jamespage: Can you let me know what might need component changing ?
[16:12] <jamespage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-ceph
[16:13] <jamespage> and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-mongodb
[16:13] <adam_g_> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-charms
[16:13] <adam_g_> this ones missing, too
[16:13] <arosales> hmm
[16:14] <arosales> jamespage, adam_g_ we may need to open a bug against the tracker for that
[16:14] <Daviey> I wonder if it is status...
[16:14] <arosales> since it is linked to the topic BP
[16:14]  * Daviey set a Priority, which was null
[16:14] <jamespage> "     Proposed for saucy"
[16:14] <jamespage> maybe that needs to be accepted
[16:15] <arosales> the mongodb one looks good . . .
[16:15] <Daviey> Accepted :)
[16:15] <jamespage> nope - thats not it
[16:15] <Daviey> lets see if it appears
[16:15] <Daviey> I'll take the action of following that through
[16:16] <arosales> #action Daviey follow up on missing BPs from overview s-topic
[16:16] <arosales> so BPs updated
[16:16] <arosales> lets take a look at essential ones
[16:17] <arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-juju-charm-testing
[16:17] <arosales> that is in progress
[16:17] <arosales> testing harness and plugin made
[16:18]  * arosales needs to update BP .. .
[16:18] <arosales> actually that is the only essential BP
[16:19] <arosales> actually looks like we need to set priority on all our BPs
[16:19] <jamespage> agreed
[16:19] <arosales> can we make that a goal for this week?
[16:19] <jamespage> Daviey, ^^ only you can do that
[16:19] <arosales> #action Daviey set priority on s-cycle BPs
[16:19] <meetingology`> ACTION: Daviey set priority on s-cycle BPs
[16:20] <arosales> previous action didn't take
[16:20] <arosales> #action Daviey follow up on missing BPs from overview s-topic
[16:20] <meetingology> ACTION: Daviey follow up on missing BPs from overview s-topic
[16:20] <arosales> ok
[16:20] <arosales> any other BPs folks would like to discuss?
[16:21] <arosales> overall we look to be in the red on status, but I suspect that is due to BPs not being updated
[16:21] <arosales> ok, sounds like there is no other BPs that needs discussion
[16:21] <arosales> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
[16:21] <arosales> OSCON is the only upcoming one for the juju team
[16:21] <arosales> any others
[16:22] <arosales> btw OSCON is end of July
[16:22] <arosales> ok so moving on
[16:22] <arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
[16:22] <plars> hi
[16:22] <plars> nothing major from me
[16:23] <plars> psivaa was able to help narrow down the kernel problem causing floodlight failures
[16:23] <plars> and jsalisbury found which change it was I think, so we should have a fix for that soon
[16:23] <arosales> plars, good to hear root cause on floodlight failures
[16:23] <arosales> plars, thanks for the update
[16:23] <arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
[16:24] <arosales> smb: Hello are you available?
[16:26] <arosales> any questions for kernel we need to follow up on?
[16:26] <arosales> for the kernel team that is :-)
[16:26] <arosales> I take it that we are ok there
[16:26] <arosales> next topic
[16:26] <arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
[16:26]  * arosales doesn't see rbask atm
[16:27] <arosales> on the ARM front from Juju we are trying to testing juju-core on ARM for saucy
[16:27] <arosales> any other ARM related topics
[16:27] <jamespage> better get that compiler working for ARM then :-)
[16:28] <arosales> jamespage noted, and dave cheney is working on that bit of work
[16:28] <arosales> #topic Open Discussion
[16:28] <arosales> any other topics to discuss?
[16:29] <arosales> I think we have been saying for a bit now to get BPs udpated
[16:29] <arosales> so lets make a good push this week to get BPs udpated and priority sets so we can see the development picture next week.
[16:30] <arosales> with that we'll close this meeting
[16:30] <arosales> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
[16:30] <arosales> NEXT MEETING: Tuesday 2013-07-02 at 1600 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
[16:31] <arosales> jamespage, plars, Daviey, adam_g_ , roaksoax , smoser thanks for jonining this week!
[16:31] <arosales> #endmeeting
[16:31] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 25 16:31:42 2013 UTC.
[16:31] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-25-16.00.moin.txt
[16:31] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-25-16.00.html
[16:31] <jamespage> arosales, thanks for chairing
[16:31] <jamespage> ttfn
[16:32] <arosales> np, glad to :-)
[17:00] <smb> \o
[17:00] <jsalisbury> ##
[17:00] <jsalisbury> ##
[17:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 25 17:00:11 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[17:00] <jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Saucy
[17:00] <apw> o/
[17:00] <ppisati> o/
[17:00] <kamal> o/
[17:00] <sconklin> o/
[17:00] <sforshee> o/
[17:00] <rtg_> o/
[17:00] <cking> o/
[17:00] <jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
[17:00] <henrix> o/
[17:00] <ppisati> nothing to report this week.
[17:00] <ppisati> ..
[17:01] <jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
[17:01] <jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
[17:01] <jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
[17:01] <jsalisbury> ..
[17:01] <jsalisbury> No update from ogasawara since she is traveling.
[17:02] <jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (sconklin)
[17:02] <sconklin> == 2013-06-25 (7 days) ==
[17:02] <sconklin> Currently we have 61 CVEs on our radar, with 1 CVE added and 3 CVEs retired in the last week.
[17:02] <sconklin> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
[17:02] <sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
[17:02] <sconklin> Overall the backlog has reduced slightly this week:
[17:02] <sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
[17:02] <sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
[17:02] <sconklin> ..
[17:02] <jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
[17:02] <sconklin> Status for the main kernels, until today (Jun. 25):
[17:02] <sconklin> *   Lucid - in Verification;
[17:02] <sconklin> * Precise - in Verification;
[17:02] <sconklin> * Quantal - in Verification;
[17:02] <sconklin> * Raring  - in Verification;
[17:02] <sconklin> Current opened tracking bugs details:
[17:02] <sconklin> * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
[17:02] <sconklin> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
[17:02] <sconklin> * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
[17:02] <sconklin> Future stable cadence cycles:
[17:02] <sconklin> * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseInterlock
[17:03] <sconklin> ..
[17:03] <jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
[17:04] <jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
[17:04] <jsalisbury> #endmeeting
[17:04] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 25 17:04:02 2013 UTC.
[17:04] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-25-17.00.moin.txt
[17:04] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-25-17.00.html
[17:04] <kamal> thanks jsalisbury!
[17:04] <cking> blink