[06:05] <valorie> thank you for calling for the vote, @Rick_Timmis
[06:05] <valorie> niters all
 Thanks Valorie, Your Good Night, is my Good Morning,like 2 ships that pass in the night 🥰
 Finished my vote on the logo, now wallpapers...
 Thanks Myriam 🥰
 4 is not my preferred one, I was much more on the side of 2 and 3, but it sure is the most likely to integrate well with the brand and the community, So I had to rebalance my judgement a bit
 And Wallpaper is done as well
 Thank you to all the Councillors who voted on the Branding Guidelines, the Results are 1st: Fabio M (Entry 4), 2nd John T (Entry 3), 3rd: Desodi (Entry 1) - Ladies and Gentlemen Kubuntu has a nice fresh, and subtle update to it's branding, how exciting
 Very exciting!!!
 I'll pack up the assets, and sort out the guides etc.. and Push it all up to Kubuntu-Team on Github
 Done. https://github.com/kubuntu-team/kubuntu-branding
[20:37] <valorie> \o/
[20:38] <valorie> the new gear with the old font looks great! fresh but not revolutionary
 https://kubuntu.org/news/celebrating-creativity-announcing-the-winners-of-the-kubuntu-contests/
[20:40] <valorie> I like that story very much


[17:17] <Pendulum> hey news team folks
[17:17] <Pendulum> akgraner has had a family thing come up and can't be around right now
[17:18] <Pendulum> she says if things can all get done in terms of summaries and stuff for UWN, she'll do the edit and release once she's dealt with the family thing
[17:18] <Pendulum> JoseeAntonioR ^^
[17:18] <Pendulum> not sure who else to poke
[17:18] <Pendulum> unfortunately, I'm in the hospital and can't do much
[18:58] <JoseeAntonioR> Pendulum: don't worry, I'll take care of all of that. Sending out emails in a moment, will send the editors one later. Take care, and get better.
[18:58] <JoseeAntonioR> akgraner: I hope everything gets solved soon, good luck
[20:40] <JoseeAntonioR> Unit193: do you knoe where can I get the flavors team meeting minutes?
[20:41] <Unit193> Depends on the flavor.
[20:41] <Unit193> And I'm out.
[20:42] <JoseeAntonioR> oh, well
[20:44] <Silverlion> aloha! finally at home! :D
[20:46] <Silverlion> akgraner: ping
[20:46] <JoseeAntonioR> Silverlion: she's not online atm
[20:46] <Silverlion> JoseeAntonioR: she was supposed to be ^^ we had a date :(
[20:47] <JoseeAntonioR> oh, well
[20:58] <Silverlion> JoseeAntonioR: we are still trying to produce a session about getting the UWN in an Ebook
[20:58] <JoseeAntonioR> Silverlion: oh, that would be super cool!
[21:00] <Silverlion> yeah but i am living 8 hours ahead of amber ^^
[21:00] <Silverlion> and she had massive troubles getting the software done
[21:00] <JoseeAntonioR> ok, so what are the plans for it?
[21:00] <JoseeAntonioR> and what has been done until now?
[21:02] <JoseeAntonioR> I think I'll just send out the email to editors now, so they have time to edit
[21:03] <Silverlion> JoseeAntonioR: as far as my intel goes UWN and the Full Circle are working together
[21:04] <JoseeAntonioR> ok, so you'd be using the same system as you use in FC?
[21:06] <Silverlion> yeah
[21:07] <JoseeAntonioR> is the code somewhere?
[21:07] <Silverlion> JoseeAntonioR: why are you asking?
[21:07] <JoseeAntonioR> I'd like to check it out, and see if I can make it work with issue 287 (the past one)
[21:08] <JoseeAntonioR> I mean, the current one
[21:09] <JoseeAntonioR> Silverlion: ^
[21:09] <Silverlion> JoseeAntonioR: there is no code yet
[21:09] <JoseeAntonioR> package? or are you doing it by hand?
[21:09] <Silverlion> this code should have been developed in the g+ session
[21:10] <Silverlion> JoseeAntonioR: the Setup bin for the Software is to find via google ;)
[21:10] <Silverlion> its called SIGIL
[21:10] <Silverlion> a WYSIWYG EPUB EDITOR
[21:10] <Silverlion> ;)
[21:10] <JoseeAntonioR> yep, found it
[21:12] <Silverlion> but the design for the UWN is still to be developed ;)
[21:12] <JoseeAntonioR> oh, for sure
[21:14] <JoseeAntonioR> oooh, now I get why Amber was asking for the color palette
[21:16] <JoseeAntonioR> Silverlion: let me know if I can help in something
[21:17] <Silverlion> JoseeAntonioR: get amber online so that we can start ... that would be great for starters
[21:18] <JoseeAntonioR> Silverlion: she's on a family thing, she can't get online now, that's why I'm taking care of the UWN
[21:19] <Silverlion> well then ... guess then i dont need to stay up long tonight
[21:21] <Silverlion> just finishing the ebook i am working on at the moment


[03:02] <ruben23> hi guys anyone cna help how to add additonal ssh-keys on an existing ubuntu server -i have na existing one and its pretty working ok..
[04:42] <ruben23> hi guys when i ssh-keygen -t rsa on  my ubuntu server it generates my public key and copy this to my authorized_keys but how do i ssh putty on the server after..?
[05:04] <electricfred_> Newbie with a prob.  Installing ubuntu server 12.4 onto ausu eeebox 1030 (reused machine) installs, but does not seem to boot  screen goes off, no keyboard or power switch function.  ISO created using ubuntu startup creator.  Anyone have suggestions?
[05:16] <electricfred_> seems a common problem on forums, but no one seems to have a solution.
[08:58] <lordievader> Good morning.
[09:45] <Alina-malina> any tools to identify browsers of clients for ubuntu?
[09:58] <lordievader> Alina-malina: Doesn't Apache already note that?
[09:59] <Alina-malina> it mess the user_agent
[09:59] <Alina-malina> and cant determine
[10:00] <Alina-malina> i need something like fingerprints or something like that
[10:00] <lordievader> Alina-malina: That is what the browser itself sends out...
[10:00] <Alina-malina> yes, well i thought maybe some additonal things that can inject into browser
[10:00] <Alina-malina> anyways
[10:00] <Alina-malina> thanks for help
[11:21] <Arkns> hi to everyone. I have a acer one with ubuntu server, no gui/desktop just terminal/console. does anyone knows something like teamviewer to share terminal? This computer is behind NAT so I cannot use a ssh.
[12:15] <xperia> hi all. small question how can i increase the memory allocation for iptables ? at the moment i am getting this error message whenever i try to add a iptables rule to a specific chain => iptables: Memory allocation problem
[12:46] <lnxmen> hello
[12:47] <lnxmen> What I need to set up in domain to configure mail server on CDN? CDN has a different IP than productive server.
[12:48] <adsc> xperia: do you have a multi-cpu system?
[12:49] <adsc> xperia: because afaik iptables makes a copy of the ruleset for each cpu, so it's possible you simply run out of system memory whith really large rulesets on a multicpu machine
[12:50] <xperia> adsc: yes i have a quad core cpu. the people at netfilter said i should switch to a 64 Bit Kernel because => "i.e. 1GB limit for kernel memory. moreover, iptables uses vmalloc area which is limited to 128mbyte on 32bit kernel"
[12:52] <xperia> i ahve also hughe problems with setting up ipset. it looks like ipset is not availble anymore or does not work with ubuntu. at least i am not able to rebuild it anymore on ubuntu.
[12:54] <adsc> xperia: and you can't switch to a 64bit kernel?
[12:56] <xperia> adsc: well this will need a total revision of the server as everything need to be switched to 64 Bit i think or i am wrong ? if it is only the kernel it would be easy. guess need a full new install of a new server.
[12:56] <adsc> yeah, it would be best if you could do a new install
[12:58] <xperia> adsc: more new additional work ohhhhh ! thank you lot for your replys and answers.  appreciate it.
[13:18] <coreycb> jamespage, glance systemd updates - https://code.launchpad.net/~corey.bryant/glance/systemd
[14:16] <jamespage> coreycb, no templating?
[14:17] <coreycb> jamespage, I just went with what Debian had
[14:17] <coreycb> jamespage, I can take a stab at templates if you prefer
[14:17] <jamespage> coreycb, +1
[14:17] <jamespage> it should be a rename of the files and stripping out most of the content
[14:18] <coreycb> jamespage, ok I'll work up some templates
[14:20] <Stuxnet> Hi all. Quick question. I know this isn't a security channel but in the context of SSH'ing to a headless server with PuTTY, is there a way to revoke a private/public key pair generated in puttygen (I don't see the option) or is shredding the private and public key files sufficient?
[14:20] <Stuxnet> (Redoing keys due to accidentally not saving the passphrase)
[14:25] <maswan> Stuxnet: it is sufficient to destroy the copies of the private key
[14:25] <lordievader> Stuxnet: Remove it from the authorized keys file?
[14:25] <maswan> Stuxnet: you might want to take it out from authorized_keys, that's roughly equivalent to revoking it
[14:25] <maswan> (if you remember all of them)
[14:28] <Stuxnet> Okay, I did that first. I'm just going to shred the key file that was saved from puttygen. Thanks guys!
[14:54] <bananapie> is there a parameter for the dhclient command that allows me to get an IP but ignore all other options OR simply display the IP received by dhclient but not actually set it?
[15:02] <rbasak> bananapie: you might be able to replace dhclient-script with -sf with a trivial wrapper that just prints arguments and environment. I'm not sure if that'll work but hopefully that's a start if you can't find anything else.
[15:11] <jamespage> coreycb, hmm horizon - do you have a kilo-1 mp for that?
[15:13] <coreycb> jamespage, I didn't create an mp yet but I can.  It's waiting on python-pint getting to main.
[15:13] <jamespage> coreycb, create it now - I'll review and upload
[15:13] <jamespage> it can sit in the queue and then as soon as the MIR lands, it goes in
[15:13] <coreycb> jamespage, https://code.launchpad.net/~corey.bryant/horizon/2015.1-b1/+merge/246314
[15:39] <hxm> hello, i keep getting errors like this datatec named[495]: error (unexpected RCODE REFUSED) resolving 'datatec.es/A/IN': <IP_ADDRESS>#53
[15:40] <hxm> i was looking in named.conf.* but i dont see anything
[15:48] <jamespage> coreycb, I can see the pint dependency
[15:49] <coreycb> jamespage, can't see it?
[15:49] <jamespage> coreycb, in the upstream requirements files?
[15:50] <jamespage> coreycb, oh wait I'm being dumb
[15:51] <coreycb> jamespage, ok
[16:25] <jamespage> coreycb, horizon uploaded
[16:25] <jamespage> coreycb, it will build just fine and pull in a runtime dep on pint
[16:26] <coreycb> jamespage, great, thanks
[16:26] <jamespage> coreycb, I rebased the download juju env file patch as well
[16:26] <jamespage> fairly trivial
[16:28] <coreycb> jamespage, thanks, I must have missed that it was disabled
[16:28] <jamespage> coreycb, np
[16:45] <jamespage> smb, talking of kernel problems, we seem to be seeing issues with partition table freshness on vivid
[16:45] <jamespage> our ceph and swift testing scrubs existing partitions and reformats but we are seeing: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9731880/
[16:46] <jamespage> 100% of the time
[16:46] <jamespage> raising a bug now
[16:46] <smb> jamespage, I was about to ask about lp bugs :)
[16:46] <smb> jamespage, Also that is with 3.16 or 3.18 already
[16:46] <jamespage> smb, we only switched on vivid testing today as kilo-1 is nearly done
[16:46] <jamespage> 3.18 I think
[16:46] <jamespage> just re-deploying to make sure
[16:47] <smb> could be if you set up recently
[16:47] <coreycb> jamespage, glance updated - jamespage, https://code.launchpad.net/~corey.bryant/glance/systemd/+merge/246227
[16:48] <smb> jamespage, the kernel team ppa has also 3.19 for early testing. If that is of help
[16:54] <jamespage> smb, 1410363
[16:54] <jamespage> bug 1410363
[16:54] <jamespage> rather
[16:54] <smb> jamespage, oh and btw... was there not a similar thing at some point err last year...
[16:55] <jamespage> smb, apparently so - beisner remembers
[16:56] <smb> Hmmm something with umount removing the mount but not releasing the partition...
[16:56] <jamespage> coreycb, uploaded - thanks!
[16:56] <smb> which went away at some point...
[17:06] <nico___> good day all, been googling for an answer wihtout luck, hoping to find some knowledgable assistance on an issue I'm having with my local repository
[17:07] <nico___> looking for a way to include the packages in a PPA in my local repo.  We use our local repo to host custom versions of packages, for example to have the most up to date zsh available on our servers
[17:07] <nico___> I'd like to include the packages in a PPA, as opposed to building the packages on my repo.
[17:08] <nico___> specifically, I want to get the latest build of duplicity on a 12.04 server from my local repo.
[17:08] <nico___> I can build a duplicty package and make it avialable in my repo, but I'd like to be able to just use packages in the official PPA without having to build the package myself and include it in my repo
[17:10] <nico___> reason being that I don't wan't to add a PPA to all my servers.  We manage our boxes via chef, so I COULD add the PPA and ensure that the latest duplicty is installed, but that seems havy handed when I've already got a repo on my lan specifically to avoid that kind of PPA proliferation
[17:19] <apw> jamespage, that error "2015-01-13 16:50:09 INFO mon-relation-changed mkfs.xfs: cannot open /dev/vdb1: Device or resource busy" doesn't that imply the partition is open excl already ?  which would also block the reread ioctl?
[17:19] <jamespage> apw, the block device gets unmounted, re-paritioned, re-formatted and then re-mounted
[17:19] <jamespage> it's failing on the re-formatting bit
[17:19] <jamespage> so its likely the unmount was foo-bar I guess
[17:20] <apw> jamespage, yes, it is failing in a way that implies it is not unmounted
[17:20] <apw> so the first things to do is to check that the umount is working
[17:21] <apw> jamespage, as saking to change partition sizes which are in use will fail, with that reboot required thing, and the subsequent format fails too
[17:21] <apw> jamespage, and the error handling is non-existant for it to get that far one presumes
[17:22] <jamespage> apw, the block device does not appear in 'mount' output or the content of /proc/mounts
[17:23] <apw> could udev be playing with it perhaps
[17:24] <apw> jamespage, does lsof say anything at that point, also if you do the proceedure by hand, does it work
[17:24] <apw> as you are mounting it with a vfat or something in it, unmounting, changing the partition tables, (and by here it has gone wrong)
[17:24] <smb> jamespage, I cannot remember the bug number but a state of where umount would seem to work btu not release the partition... thats was what I remember from last time
[17:24] <jamespage> apw, smb: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9732538/
[17:25] <jamespage> that feels familiar
[17:25] <jamespage> apw, ext4
[17:25] <jamespage> then switching to xfs
[17:25] <jamespage> also mbr->gpt
[17:25] <smb> though I think oh right the jbd process was involved there
[17:26] <jamespage> smb, I seem to remember this from before
[17:26] <apw> jamespage, ok so that implies that the journaling block device is holding on to it?
[17:26] <jamespage> apw: probably
[17:27] <nico___> found a work around, though I'm still interested in my original question re: mirroring packages from a PPA in my personal apt repo
[17:27] <smb> apw, Yeah that was the weird state I remember.
[17:27] <apw> jamespage, so, is it possible to perform these steps on an instance by hand
[17:27] <apw> to see what happens?
[17:27] <smb> apw, Which IIRC I could not reproduce locally
[17:31] <jamespage> apw, so if I just unmount /mnt (where cloud-init put it) I see the vdb parition in lsof
[17:31] <jamespage> apw, for reference its not partitioned - just /dev/vdb
[17:32] <apw> jamespage, are you mounting it r/o or r/w ?
[17:33] <jamespage> e/w
[17:33] <jamespage> r/w
[17:34] <jamespage> smb, apw: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ceph/+bug/1371526
[17:34] <apw> jamespage, might be interesting to try mounting it r/o, to see how that fares
[17:35] <smb> jamespage, Oh right that was the bug
[17:35] <jamespage> yeah
[17:36] <jamespage> apw, if I unmount it and then remount it ro, it fails
[17:36] <jamespage> rw is OK
[17:36] <apw> fails how ?
[17:38] <smb> apw, could be trying a second jbd which cannot get exclusive lock
[17:38] <apw> jamespage, this partition is being mkfs'd "outside" the instance i assume, what version is that space running
[17:38] <jamespage> apw, trusty
[17:39] <smb> apw, I wonder whether this might be a race as in when cloud-init does the mount relative to startup...
[17:42] <apw> jamespage, where can i find the code which prepares this disk outside
[17:42] <apw> jamespage, or ... can we get a dd of the partition without mounting it
[17:43] <smb> apw, I would propose I try to try to repro tomorrow with a cloud-image and data on ext4
[17:43] <apw> smb, sounds reasonable
[17:43] <apw> smb, i would think just preparing the fs outside, and then trying to mount it in the instance, bear in mind the instance boot has done a resize too
[17:43] <smb> apw, http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/
[17:44] <apw> just done a resize on vda
[17:46] <smb> apw, Yeah, I think you can dd the cloud-image on any bigger vda and it resizes itself on first boot
[17:47] <smb> apw, Oh and cloud-localeds might be the tool for the data
[17:47] <smb> apw, Just from my memory that was restricted to isofs
[17:48] <apw> smb, yeah we need to know exactly how that things is made, as i suspect it is relevant, note in jamespage's original bug a second vdc disk was not affected when mounted and unmounted from inside, so there likely is a correlation to the outside creation
[17:49] <smb> apw, Either outside creation or when all that stuff is done relative to the boot sequence
[17:49] <jamespage> apw, smb: https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/utils.py#L794
[18:20] <lnxmen> hello
[18:20] <lnxmen> I installed ispconfig
[18:20] <lnxmen> And I tried to configure mail server
[18:20] <lnxmen> I clicked somewhere in ispconfig panel
[18:20] <lnxmen> and whole site is broken
[18:20] <lnxmen> server even shows php code.... wtf
[18:21] <lnxmen> There is no helpful information in log.
[19:25] <superboot> Hi all. What is the current kernel for Ubuntu serve 14.04 (fully updated install)?
[19:25] <lordievader> !info linux-image-generic trusty
[19:26] <lordievader> superboot: ^
[19:28] <superboot> lordievader: Thanks a lot. :)
[19:34] <collizion> I feel like I'm out of date. Is update-rc.d still the way to handle service automatic start/stop?
[20:02] <fandi> hi all
[20:02] <fandi> i install apache2 and php5
[20:04] <fandi> the problem if script cannot parse by php, the webserver will reply respond 500 ?
[20:04] <fandi> thanks
[20:07] <lordievader> fandi: Yes, if php crashes Apache will most likely report a  500 error.
[20:09] <fandi> lordievader: ok .. how to make error not 500 :)
[20:10] <fandi> lordievader: because i only change simple script and all vhost and all my cluster server respond 500 :)
[20:10] <fandi> also my varnish :)
[20:11] <lordievader> fandi: Write non crashing code?
[20:12] <fandi> lordievader: ok .. :)
[20:12] <fandi> lordievader: do you familliar with varnish :)
[20:12] <fandi> lordievader: how to increase hit rate on varnish ?
[20:12] <lordievader> No, I don't know varnish.
[20:13] <fandi> lordievader: ok thanks
[21:13] <Guest1_> I want to compile a library and an app that uses it and have few questions relating to that. How do I update? Do I just compile the new version normally and everything is replaced and leaves no unneeded trash? Also if there're any possible problems when compiling one part (library) and installing other things from repos?
[22:52] <Aison> after installation of ubuntu server, I end up in initramfs console
[22:52] <Aison> during installation, the drive was sdb1
[22:52] <Aison> now it is sda1
[22:52] <Aison> can I change that somehow in initramfs console
[22:52] <Aison> cat /proc/cmdline shows the wrong command line


[04:12] <leao> hi guys
[04:12] <leao> can someone explain to me how to write kernel modules
[04:31] <jj-afk> leao: that is asking a lot
[04:32] <jj-afk> leao: the best way to start out is with some basic code and running through some tutorials
[04:33] <jj-afk> leao: http://tldp.org/guides.html
[04:33] <jj-afk> has some tutorials and documentation
[04:35] <jj-afk> leao: its going to take, the source, a C compiler, and patience, there is a lot to learn, the basics aren't hard but there is a large set of apis and design patterns with in the kernel to learn
[10:47] <LLStarks> ogasawara, raw1394 seems to be absent from the natty and oneiric kernels for legacy firewire stack usage.
[10:57] <LLStarks> is this intentional?
[19:58] <sconklin> ogasawara, apw: either of you around?


[12:01] <herve> wth, I need an account to see a forum?
[12:01] <ivoks> http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=180&c=5
[12:01] <ivoks> check this one :)
[12:02] <ivoks> herve: yeah :(
[12:02] <herve> dholbach not coming back...
[12:03] <DanielN> thanks for link .. i should register first ;)
[12:04] <ivoks> wait
[12:04] <herve> second link is ok
[12:04] <ivoks> i can upload pics...
[12:04] <DanielN> ahh
[12:04] <ivoks> second is my wallpaper :)
[12:04] <DanielN> :)
[12:04] <herve> ok, I saw 264
[12:05] <herve> quite nice
[12:05] <herve> would be better without the ubuntu branding ;-)
[12:05] <ivoks> http://u4.eset.com/download/lms/nod32lms-2.15-1.i386.deb
[12:05] <ivoks> they even have .deb package :)
[12:05] <DanielN> mhm .. it's ok for me ;)
[12:09] <ivoks> time to go to bed
[12:09] <herve> that suspens is killing me!
[12:09] <herve> night ivoks
[12:09] <ivoks> :))
[12:09] <DanielN> mhm .. freesleepers inside ;)
[12:09] <DanielN> argh ..
[12:09] <ivoks> herve: what's with X?
[12:10] <herve> I *really* want it repaired :-)
[12:11] <herve> too late, end of the song
[12:11] <herve> ++
[12:14] <DanielN> attempting to sleep too ;)
[12:14] <DanielN> good night all
[12:15] <dholbach> grmbl
[12:16] <dholbach> what were those funky font symlinks i had to make?
[12:17] <dholbach> hm no.. the fonts are in order
[12:19] <dholbach> brb
[12:21] <dholbach> IT WORKS!
[12:21] <dholbach> :)
[12:48] <dholbach> good night everyone
[01:13] <ogra> HiddenWolf, see topic
[01:14] <HiddenWolf> That's why I do it. ;)
[01:19] <tseng> rage.
[01:20] <tseng> ogra: do you have a howto on writing manpages?
[01:20] <tseng> my boo deb needs three
[01:20] <ajmitch> write them in docbook, and use docbook2man?
[01:20] <ajmitch> I think that's what dholbach suggested at one point
[01:20] <tseng> i dont speak docbook either
[01:21] <tseng> oh well
[01:21] <ogra> tseng, take te .ex file and check it with man -l <file>
[01:22] <tseng> the .ex from debhelper?
[01:22] <tseng> ok..
[01:23] <tseng> manpage.xml.ex nice
[01:23] <ogra> or any other manpage...
[01:24] <tseng> bwa, sections
[01:24] <tseng> i have a compiler, a shell, and an interpreter..
[01:24] <tseng> all 5?
[01:25] <ogra> man man ?
[01:26] <tseng> oh
[01:26] <tseng> section 1
[01:28] <ajmitch> ogra: great, I see you spoke to herve about MOTUPython :)
[01:28] <ajmitch> thanks, I hadn't seen him round
[01:33] <tseng> eh its easier imo just to use the manpage.1.ex
[01:33] <tseng> @ ajmitch
[02:08] <ogra> ajmitch, nice :) you filled the page
[02:10] <ogra> heh
[02:11] <ajmitch> herve can have the job if he wants :)
[02:11] <ajmitch> unless we have another big transition there shouldn't be as much coordinating to do
[02:12] <ogra> probably
[02:12] <ogra> lets see what happens :)
[02:13] <ogra> the edubuntu guys have some interest, they were the ones that asked several times about the python team
[02:13] <ajmitch> either way I'll hopefully have spare time for ubuntu after this week :)
[02:13] <ogra> :)
[02:14] <ajmitch> yes, I'd better upload those c++ libs that are approved & fix the others :)
[03:46] <Burgundavia> \sh, you pinged?
[04:43] <Burgundavia> \sh, if you need to contact me, you can email me at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:37] <mgalvin> hi all
[06:37] <crimsun> 'lo
[06:38] <mgalvin> so to start my semi trial by fire I am trying out building ogre which lead me to have to instll nvidia-cg-toolkit
[06:39] <mgalvin> i built a deb of it from the rpm... first has anyone else already done this, if not would anyone be interested in trying it out
[06:40] <crimsun> I don't know of anyone else having done as much, but be sure to note your progress on the wiki
[06:40] <mgalvin> i have the nvidia cgc deb and will hopefully have an ogre deb soon
[06:41] <Lathiat> mgalvin: what is it?
[06:41] <mgalvin> the nvidia compile and runtime
[06:41] <mgalvin> at http://developer.nvidia.com/object/cg_toolkit.html
[06:42] <mgalvin> it is one of the packages ogre uses
[06:43] <Lathiat> interesting
[06:46] <mgalvin> as an aspiring maintainer, i would love feedback on this stuff if anyone has spare time to take a look
[06:46] <mgalvin> I am putting the nvidia-cg-toolkit deb on my webserver now, uploading...
[06:48] <mgalvin> the stuff I have been (and will be) trying out is at
[06:48] <mgalvin> http://www.simplifiedcomplexity.com/ubuntu/packages/hoary/i386/
[06:48] <mgalvin> if anyone is interesting in taking a peek
[07:10] <mgalvin> l8r all
[07:31] <chillywilly> anyone ever read on lisp by paul graham?
[07:33] <crimsun> parts, I need to reread it
[07:37] <chillywilly> lisp is pretty cool
[07:37] <crimsun> it certainly has its uses
[07:38] <chillywilly> please don't say AI or "expert systems" ;)
[07:39] <crimsun> those are the classically cited ones, yes ;)
[07:39] <chillywilly> gah
[08:20] <\sh> morning
[08:28] <\sh> siretart: added
[09:47] <\sh> strike dar build successfully on i386, ppc, amd64 and ia64..my first upload worked ;)
[11:25] <ogra> Accepted dar 2.2.1-1ubuntu2 (source)
[11:25] <ogra> woah
[11:26] <ogra> applause \sh !!
[11:26] <Amaranth> little up and down arrows next to the menus and entries to allow you to change their position
[11:28] <DanielN> is pbuilder really the only thing i need to build a breezy chroot for building packages ?
[11:29] <\sh> yeah
[11:30] <\sh> ogra: and dar and libibtk compiled on _all_ archs, i'm really happy about it :)
[11:31] <Amaranth> nice
[11:31] <Amaranth> but what is dar? :)
[11:31] <Amaranth> darcs?
[11:31] <ogra> \sh, be aware, you'll mutate to the upload bitch for the next days
[11:33] <\sh> ogra: first  i will resolv all my packages ;)
[11:33] <\sh> ogra: but u can review qinx ;)
[11:33] <Amaranth> am i here? :)
[11:34] <\sh> haha
[11:34] <ogra> Amaranth, apt-cache show dar
[11:34] <ivoks> ah...
[11:34] <ogra> its boring...
[11:34] <\sh> Amaranth: don't bother about dar..i don't know what this thing is doing...i'm compiling only and trying to fix.. ;)
[11:34] <ivoks> bacula is the best backup system
[11:34] <ogra> \sh, its a backup tool
[11:35] <\sh> ogra: well..ok :)
[11:35] <\sh> coffee now :)
[11:35] <ivoks> ogra: if you are bored, you could review my package :)
[11:35] <ivoks> and maybe upload it :)
[11:35] <\sh> ogra: I just went shopping at 9:00am..and when I came back i was wet as hell...this weather is not normal
[11:36] <ivoks> \sh: wet as hell :) hot as icecube :)
[11:36] <ogra> hey guys, i'm just preparing my trip to GUADEC.... (probably i'll pull down some packages to review offline on the train)
[11:36] <ogra> lol
[11:37] <ivoks> hehe
[11:37] <ivoks> you could review mine... it's simple :)
[11:37] <Amaranth> ogra: Trying to catch up to seb?
[11:37] <ivoks> that wifi-radar is there for ages :)
[11:38] <ogra> Amaranth, naah... i'm not a packaging king, will never be as good as him....
[11:39] <Amaranth> ogra: Just package lots of Python things, some of those can be 5 line cdbs scripts.
[11:39] <Amaranth> I mean some of those can only take 5 line cdbs scripts.
[11:44] <\sh> ah...the first coffee of the day
[12:12] <\sh> re ogra
[12:13] <\sh> ok...my evening is also planned
[12:13] <\sh> meeting with sherif at 3pm, visiting saturn at hansaplatz, meeting up with george and some nice relaxing time and brain resetting time in cologne :)
[12:14] <ogra> \sh, send greetings to them....
[12:14] <\sh> ogra: will do :)
[12:15] <ogra> great :)
[12:15] <\sh> ogra: he wanted to make a suprise visit to egypt this weekend...but he couldn't find a back flight for sunday :(
[12:15] <\sh> ogra: u know that he is engaged now?
[12:16] <ogra> george ?
[12:16] <\sh> ogra: sherif
[12:17] <ogra> oh, i thought he was married already
[12:17] <\sh> ogra: no...he went onto holiday to egypt visiting family and came back engaged :)
[12:17] <ogra> heh
[12:18] <\sh> ogra: his fiance will come to germany in 3 months...:) they want to go and marry here in .de :) he's so cute right now ;)
[12:18] <ogra> hehe
[12:18] <ogra> my best whishes :=
[12:18] <ogra> :)
[12:19] <\sh> ah and greetings from bran :)
[12:19] <\sh> i forgot
[12:20] <ogra> how is he with his new job ?
[12:20] <\sh> and bran said: congrats ... original quote: "I knew Oliver would make it just like he wanted to" :)
[12:20] <ogra> heh
[12:20] <\sh> ogra: he's busy ... 3 days in rosenheim, 2 days in duesseldorf and then one week in israel
[12:21] <ogra> fun
[12:21] <\sh> he's travelling a lot...but he's quite happy with it...
[12:21] <\sh> last time he was visiting ISH as a bigband consultant ;)
[12:21] <DanielN> building hoary chroot now :)
[12:23] <\sh> i need to find out how i can make 2 pbuilder envs one for breezy and one for hoary ;)
[12:24] <\sh> ogra: and if u need a new nifty nice vacuum without those filter bags...praktiker has one for 29.95  1600W :) I bought one yesterday
[12:24] <DanielN> first i must understand how pbuilder works ...
[12:25] <\sh> hmm...njam packaged for breezy
[12:26] <\sh> who is responsible for MOTUGames?
[12:26] <\sh> siretart?
[12:26] <ogra> yep
[12:26] <\sh> ah nice :)
[12:26] <\sh> siretart: ping :)
[12:27] <HiddenWolf> \sh, it's saturday, be nice
[12:27] <\sh> ogra: i'm closing all cxx trans bugs for the packages compiled successfully on all archs...is it ok?
[12:27] <ogra> absolutely
[12:28] <\sh> ogra: thx
[12:28] <\sh> HiddenWolf: come on...it's saturday, it's damn hot outside..what's best to sit in front of your computer and working...with a nice bottle of beer next to u ;)
[12:29] <HiddenWolf> \sh, wish I could. I've got a corporate finance exam coming up.
[12:29] <\sh> HiddenWolf: uh...nasty
[12:29] <HiddenWolf> 26 degrees inside, and I'm trying to focus on a book. :P
[12:30] <herve> morning!
[12:34] <DanielN> damn .. want to have a lap so i could sit on the terrass
[12:34] <\sh> hey herve
[12:36] <ogra> scare coeur, hmmm
[12:36] <\sh> sacre ;)
[12:36] <ogra> who are they scring ?
[12:36] <ogra> scaring even :)
[12:36] <DanielN> sorry i know it's hot today, but one little question: i updated pbuilder to breezy now .. and what am i doing next? :)
[12:36] <\sh> hello to my friend freud ;)
[12:37] <\sh> DanielN: sudo pbuilder build <your package>.dsc
[12:37] <\sh> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/PbuilderHowto
[12:37] <herve> paris by this time? breathing pollution and ozon...
[12:37] <\sh> if you don't have it: cd <your debianized source tree> ; debuild -S ; cd ..
[12:38] <\sh> herve: i don't mind...nice girls, small belts ;)
[12:38] <\sh> herve: where r u living in france?
[12:38] <DanielN> and then pbuilder build package.dsc ?
[12:38] <\sh> yepp
[12:38] <herve> \sh, grenoble
[12:38] <herve> although my whois says nice :-)
[12:39] <\sh> herve: grenoble?
[12:39] <\sh> herve: i think grenoble is a partner city of dortmund
[12:39] <\sh> we had some exchange students from grenoble some time :)
[12:40] <herve> I don't see much german students here
[12:41] <herve> mostly americans
[12:45] <\sh> herve: sorry..it wasn't dortmund, it was essen-steele :)
[12:45] <\sh> another city where I was living and going to school :)
[12:45] <herve> it's near the french frontier no?
[12:45] <\sh> no..it's in the heart of northrhine-westfalia
[12:46] <herve> essen was telling me something
[12:47] <\sh> it's twin-city of grenoble
[12:47] <herve> yes you told :-)
[12:47] <\sh> i think the "helene-lange-realschule" was establishing a student exchange with grenoble long time ago
[12:47] <herve> but I was not born in grenoble
[12:48] <herve> my home city is a twin city of boblingen
[12:48] <\sh> funny thing is, why i'm always confused with essen and dortmund :) dortmund is my birth place..in essen I was living for 5 years, and went to the "helene-lange-realschule"..after this school time, I moved back to dortmund-hombruch and was visiting the "helene-lange-gymnasium" ;)
[12:49] <herve> I can understand you're confusing, I do ;-)
[12:51] <\sh> at my age, it's allright ;)
[12:57] <\sh> hmm..strange
[12:57] <\sh> my cpu is changing freqs when it's getting to hot
[12:57] <siretart> \sh: pong
[12:57] <\sh> but it shouldn't
[12:57] <\sh> siretart: nice to see u
[12:58] <\sh> siretart: have a package for MOTUGames
[12:58] <siretart> \sh: :) - what is it?
[12:58] <ogra> \sh, why shouldnt it ?
[12:58] <tseng> hi
[12:58] <\sh> ogra: because i disabled speed change in bios
[12:58] <\sh> siretart: njam
[12:59] <siretart> it's way too hot here.. just came back from a friend helped moving.. puh
[12:59] <ogra> \sh, did you also disable powernowd ?
[12:59] <ogra> \sh, you know that the BIOS is ignored by linux...
[12:59] <\sh> siretart: that "fitness" i had yesterday
[12:59] <\sh> http://njam.sourceforge.net/
[12:59] <\sh> ogra: i don't think so
[12:59] <ogra> \sh, powernowd cares for the frequency and voltage
[01:00] <\sh> uhh...
[01:00] <ogra> man powernowd
[01:00] <siretart> \sh: looks great. how did you get attention to that game?
[01:00] <ogra> you can adjust the OPTIONS= line in /etc/init.d/powernowd and just restart it
[01:00] <\sh> siretart: ubuntu-de...someone wrote a "howto" install the precompiled binary on ubuntuusers
[01:01] <Chris> \sh, i know who it was :D
[01:01] <siretart> ah, they are asing for help someone doing a package.. let's see.
[01:01] <\sh> Chris: ah :)
[01:01] <\sh> siretart: wait..i'll upload it to my webpage
[01:01] <\sh> siretart: you can take it over it's compiled successfully on breezy i386
[01:02] <\sh> siretart: and I will report to upstream that there  is a ubuntu package..
[01:02] <ogra> siretart, where is your first upload, we're waiting ;)
[01:02] <\sh> Chris: u see, it's done :)
[01:02] <Chris> :)
[01:02] <\sh> ah yes, siretart key is added ;)
[01:03] <DanielN> mhm .. shouldn't gpg 1.4.x be used with pbuilder ?
[01:04] <ogra> DanielN, pbuilder doesnt use gpg at all, you sign the _source_ before you run pbuilder
[01:04] <siretart> ogra: I just got home and I'm sweating like a warhhog.. relax  :)
[01:04] <\sh> DanielN: debuild -S is asking for your key..not pbuilder
[01:04] <DanielN> ogra: ok. but why i see then packages, signed with gpg 1.4 outside?
[01:04] <ogra> siretart, sad, then i'll miss your first one ....
[01:05] <siretart> I'm on my way
[01:05] <ogra> siretart, i'm on my way to the train... to stuttgart
[01:05] <Nafallo> hmm, shouldn't serpentine depend on libnautilus-burn-dev?
[01:06] <\sh> siretart: i saw warthogs in their natural enviroment :)
[01:06] <Nafallo> or atleast libnautilus-burn2
[01:06] <siretart> ok. keychain uploaded
[01:06] <ogra> Nafallo, nope, on libnautilus-burn-python (or however its called)
[01:06] <ogra> which in turn should depend on it
[01:07] <Nafallo> ogra: hmm, it doesn't.
[01:07] <ogra> Nafallo, i'll look into it as soon as i'm back from guadec
[01:07] <Nafallo> ogra: k
[01:07] <ogra> Nafallo, i want to proote it to main in the default desktop
[01:07] <siretart> \sh: ah great. will you upload njam then or do you want me to look at it first?
[01:07] <Nafallo> ogra: yay! :-)
[01:07] <ogra> prmote even
[01:08] <ogra> ARGH !!
[01:08] <ogra> pro mo te
[01:08] <Nafallo> hehe
[01:08] <\sh> siretart: it will be a new package...it has to be reviewed
[01:08] <Amaranth> what ever happened to mono getting into main?
[01:08] <\sh> siretart: but you can have a look at it :) http://ubuntu.linux-server.org/?path=njam
[01:09] <\sh> siretart: i will have a second test build on hoary...to check if it's running without any hassle...or if I have to adjust a bit on the package
[01:09] <Nafallo> python-nautilus?
[01:09] <Amaranth> and/or can i build my own libdbus-cil that works?
[01:10] <ogra> Nafallo, look at the serpentine homepage....
[01:10] <Nafallo> ogra: k. the pythonthingie you talked about isn't packaged yet I guess then ;)
[01:10] <ogra> Amaranth, nope, not anymore
[01:11] <Amaranth> it's not happening or i can't build my own?
[01:11] <ogra> Nafallo, since people alredy burn with it, it must be there
[01:12] <siretart> hm. how to tell dput to also upload the orig.tar.gz?
[01:12] <ogra> debuild -S -sa
[01:12] <ogra> if you build the source package
[01:12] <elmo> or just use an ftp client by hand and upload it
[01:12] <siretart> ah. thanks
[01:12] <Nafallo> ogra: if you say so. I can't find it with apt-cache anyway ;-)
[01:13] <ogra> Nafallo, its included in python2.4-gnome2-extras
[01:13] <ogra> (libnautilus-burn-python)
[01:13] <Nafallo> ogra: ahh, doh :-).
[01:14] <ogra> Nafallo,  apt-cache show python2.4-gnome2-extras
[01:14] <ogra> ;)
[01:14] <ogra> libnautilus-burn1
[01:15] <ogra> <-- shower
[01:15] <Nafallo> that's why it can't find my empty cd ;-)
[01:19] <siretart> I also fixed "rlog" (CXX Trasition): https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11222. Are this 'transition' uploads reviewed first, or may I proceed with uploading?
[01:19] <siretart> I dont want to do anything wrong
[01:21] <\sh> siretart: attach the debdiff output to the bug entry
[01:22] <\sh> debdiff <origpackage>.dsc <newubunturevwithrenaming>.dsc > <package>.diff
[01:22] <siretart> \sh: http://siretart.tauware.de/ubuntu-packages/rlog/patch
[01:22] <siretart> but will also attach to the report
[01:22] <\sh> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11183 take it as an example
[01:23] <\sh> so doko or we can take a look on the patch itself
[01:23] <Amaranth> what do you do if it's an application?
[01:23] <\sh> Amaranth: i think they will be uploaded automatically after all libs are in the tree
[01:24] <Amaranth> fix the compiler errors, fix the dependencies, and upload a new ubuntuX version?
[01:24] <\sh> Amaranth: but there r some kde stuff which has to be altered manually
[01:24] <Amaranth> ah
[01:24] <siretart> \sh: ok. will do
[01:24] <Amaranth> how far along are the libs?
[01:24] <Amaranth> i know universe just got a massive ammount of c2 libs all of the sudden
[01:25] <siretart> Amaranth: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CxxLibraryList is the current status, I think
[01:25] <Amaranth> like one day it seemed that people weren't even trying, the next about 100 libs were showing as New In Repository in synaptic
[01:25] <Amaranth> who should i hug for that? :)
[01:26] <\sh> Amaranth: http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/22-Breaking-News-python-kde3-and-CXX-Transition.html
[01:28] <Amaranth> doko did it?
[01:28] <\sh> siretart: check comment on your diff :)
[01:29] <Amaranth> awesome!
[01:30] <siretart> gnarf. thanks
[01:30] <\sh> siretart: and see, i just found a bug in njam package ;)
[01:30] <siretart> \sh: the Makefile for njam seems to be b0rked
[01:32] <\sh> siretart: well...yes, i will make a patch and include DESTDIR magic and fix some symlinks stuff
[01:32] <Amaranth> are there any numbers (percent done, etc) or should i do a little screenscraping and come up with them?
[01:34] <siretart> \sh: I think the makefile itself should be rewritten. it installs levels and datafils to /usr/games/...
[01:35] <\sh> doing it right now :)
[01:35] <siretart> \sh: Better would be to install data and game files either to /usr/{share,lib}/njam, and let /usr/games/njam just be a shell wrapper, as supposed
[01:35] <\sh> siretart: check /usr/games
[01:35] <\sh> all gnome games are laying there
[01:36] <\sh> oh no..only the bins
[01:36] <siretart> jepp
[01:37] <\sh> so u mean: /usr/share/njam/* ?
[01:38] <siretart> depending whether the are architecture independent or not
[01:38] <siretart> if architecture depending, it must go to /usr/lib/njam. and now lets hope the binary accepts that
[01:38] <\sh> splitting up the package into arch and arch-indep?
[01:38] <siretart> no. that would make thinks only more complicated as needed, imho
[01:39] <\sh> ok...letme check the data files...and I will do a testbuild on hoary, only to see if it's running as expected
[01:40] <\sh> ok, the data are indep...
[01:41] <siretart> gnarf. the binary expect data relative to itself
[01:41] <\sh> what?
[01:41] <\sh> fck...u r right
[01:41] <\sh> i'll have to patch the source
[01:42] <\sh> hmmm
[01:42] <siretart> look at njam.cpp, line 87
[01:42] <\sh> yeah..saw it
[01:42] <\sh> nasty
[01:43] <\sh> ok..what about this
[01:44] <siretart> wah, now i understand (after thinking 2minutes about it)
[01:44] <siretart> that code "guesses" the location of the binary inspecting argv[0]
[01:45] <siretart> gnarf
[01:46] <siretart> lets replace that with a simple 'chdir("/usr/share/njam/");'
[01:46] <\sh> siretart: hmmm
[01:46] <DanielN> \sh: your local apt repo howto doesn't work here
[01:47] <\sh> siretart: what about njam.h: #define UBUNTU_GAMES_DATA_DIR "/usr/share/njam/"
[01:47] <\sh> and put this constant in front of the fopens
[01:47] <\sh> or to be more flexible
[01:48] <siretart> \sh: that would be bloat the patch. better "chdir(DATA_DIR);" and #define that
[01:48] <\sh> #define UBUNTU_GAMES_DATA_DIR "@gamesdatalocation@"  and in debian/rules i make a sed -e 's/\@gamesdatalocation\@/\/usr\/share\/games\//'
[01:48] <\sh> DanielN: what?
[01:49] <\sh> DanielN: please comment on the page, what went wrong :)
[01:49] <DanielN> if i want upload, packages went to incoming.. and no packages.gz and sources.gz and so on is created ..
[01:49] <\sh> DanielN: then something is wrong :)
[01:49] <\sh> DanielN: check debian/changelog if it's the right distribution
[01:49] <DanielN> it is
[01:49] <DanielN> breezy
[01:50] <\sh> DanielN: mini-dinstall configured?
[01:50] <DanielN> yep
[01:50] <\sh> hmm..here it's working fine...:(
[01:50] <DanielN> this message happens: Not running dinstall.
[01:53] <DanielN> \sh: *lol* found it .. i wrote "archiv" instead of +e :)
[01:53] <\sh> DanielN: *phew*
[04:05] (Nafallo/#ubuntu-motu) !seen xine-amd64-user-with-mp3soundfiles
[04:05] (siretart/#ubuntu-motu) Is anyone using a thinkpad with breezy here? I reanabled xosd support and would like to have it tested. I tested it with recompiling on hoary, here, it works
[04:34] <DanielN> are there any howtows, to build from CVS ?
[04:36] <siretart> DanielN: well. there are a lot of tutorials on using cvs in the web
[04:37] <ivoks> hola
[04:41] <siretart> hi ivoks
[04:43] <ivoks> hi
[04:43] <ivoks> just washed my focus, put glycerin on tiers... it shines like a star... ready for trip tomorrow :)
[04:44] <ivoks> three babes and me :)
[04:44] <ivoks> hm.. i din't get response from mako yet... :(
[06:12] <DanielN> ***Error***: You must have automake >= 1.6 installed
[06:12] <DanielN>   to build resapplet.
[06:12] <DanielN> :(
[06:58] <ivoks> hi
[07:25] <DanielN> \sh you're a really bad reviewer ;)
[07:38] <siretart> DanielN: I made other observations ;)
[07:38] <ivoks> :)
[07:38] <ivoks> siretart: are you motu? :)
[07:40] <ivoks> damn... so much people uses wifi-radar in hoary
[07:40] <ivoks> and it still isn't aproved for breezy :(
[07:40] <ivoks> that makes me sad :(
[07:45] <siretart> ivoks: since a few days. shall I review your package?
[07:46] <ivoks> yeah :)
[07:46] <ivoks> please...
[07:46] <siretart> ivoks: where is your source package?
[07:46] <ivoks> i'm still waiting mako's approval of my membership... :(
[07:46] <ivoks> siretart: www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu
[07:46] <ivoks> siretart: wifi-radar
[07:46] <tseng> have you been to the CC?
[07:46] <tseng> mako cant approve you by himself
[07:47] <tseng> he can only check off your signed CoC
[07:47] <ivoks> i was
[07:47] <ivoks> i got status
[07:47] <ivoks> i signed CoC and send it over email to him
[07:48] <ivoks> kamion and elmo agreed :)
[07:48] <ivoks> maybe i did something wrong :(
[07:48] <tseng> it sounds like you are already approved..
[07:48] <siretart> is this a NEW package?
[07:49] <ivoks> siretart: yes
[07:49] <ivoks> tseng: ok :)
[07:49] <ivoks> tseng: i tought he will reply or something...
[07:49] <tseng> no
[07:49] <ivoks> ok then :)
[07:51] <ivoks> tseng: so, as member, what privliges i get? :))
[07:51] <tseng> you can vouche for new members at CC
[07:51] <ivoks> ok, that's nice
[07:52] <tseng> someday there is supposed to be @ubuntu.com mail forwards for members
[07:52] <tseng> who knows
[07:52] <ivoks> nice :)
[07:56] <ivoks> siretart: so...? it's small package :)
[07:56] <siretart> ivoks: still looking at it :)
[07:57] <siretart> I'm note quite happy about the copyright statement
[07:57] <ivoks> why?
[07:57] <siretart> but this is rather an upstream issue. Have a look at this: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2003/12/msg00007.html
[07:57] <ivoks> ah, i should put whole GPL in it? :)
[07:58] <siretart> no! a reference is much better
[07:58] <tseng> well
[07:58] <tseng> a reference is much better if the file is already existing on a base debian install
[07:58] <siretart> upstream should read the section "HOW TO APPLY THE GPL"
[07:58] <siretart> but IANAL
[07:59] <siretart> hm. "default" interface is eth2, yes?
[07:59] <ivoks> yes
[08:00] <siretart> hm. so the user would have to edit the config file for setting it to his real divcename.
[08:00] <siretart> for me that would be ath0, for my GF it would be eth1.
[08:00] <ivoks> yes, i'm thinking to add gui option for that
[08:00] <ivoks> or...
[08:00] <ivoks> it should ask while installing
[08:01] <siretart> I'm also thinking how to improve this..
[08:01] <siretart> asking for default value using debconf would be the options of choice in debian, I think
[08:01] <ivoks> yeah..
[08:01] <siretart> in ubuntu, i'm not sure..
[08:02] <ivoks> app runs as root
[08:02] <ivoks> so it shouldn't alove to much freedom :)
[08:02] <ivoks> alove?! omg.. allow
[08:04] <ivoks> so, in ubuntu, we don't ask anything with debhelper?
[08:04] <tseng> we try not to ask questions in packages in base install
[08:04] <ivoks> i guess i could do a preinstall script that will run iwconfig to find out wifi-card
[08:04] <siretart> thats what I'm thinking of
[08:04] <tseng> or in desktop
[08:04] <siretart> I'm thinking about a regex for auto detection
[08:04] <ivoks> yeah
[08:05] <ivoks> with iwconfig
[08:05] <ivoks> so it would have predepend on iwconfig
[08:05] <ivoks> it would run in and find out what interface user is using
[08:05] <ivoks> any objections? :)
[08:06] <siretart> better let's get that discussed on #ubuntu-devel
[08:06] <ivoks> ok
[08:07] <siretart> I really like your package. It is really a great contribution to ubuntu
[08:07] <ivoks> :) ok, not that great :)
[08:07] <ivoks> i like it so i tought... let's make a package
[08:08] <ivoks> ok... i could do autodetection before it loads
[08:08] <ivoks> i could implement that in wifi-radar.sh
[08:08] <ivoks> wich is in menu
[08:09] <ivoks> iwconfig 2> /dev/null | grep IEEE | cut -d' ' -f1
[08:10] <siretart> and what happens if 2 wifi cards are installed?
[08:10] <ivoks> it should use only one
[08:10] <ivoks> first one
[08:10] <ivoks> and if user desiers another one, then he will need to change config
[08:11] <herve> re
[08:11] <ivoks> or... just to configure it while installing
[08:11] <ivoks> hi herve
[08:11] <ivoks> but, that's not ubuntu way :)
[08:11] <siretart> hm. thats right. wicked..
[08:12] <ivoks> ok, i'll figure out something later
[08:12] <ivoks> and i will upload revision
[08:12] <ivoks> ok?
[08:13] <ivoks> then you'll look it again
[08:13] <ivoks> btw, i did copyright file
[08:13] <ivoks> it isn't in source package...
[08:13] <ivoks> siretart: what should i change?
[08:13] <tseng> oh, i got my hoary cds today
[08:15] <siretart> ivoks: I dont really see any grave mistakes in your package.
[08:17] <siretart> ivoks: have any other motus reviewd it yet?
[08:18] <herve> tseng, where are you located, roughly?
[08:18] <tseng> Philly, PA
[08:18] <tseng> very roughly
[08:19] <herve> siretart, his wifi tool?
[08:19] <siretart> yeah
[08:19] <herve> tseng, I guess it means united states? (that's why I didn't ask for details ;-))
[08:19] <tseng> yes
[08:19] <herve> siretart, last time I reviewed it, it was ok for me
[08:19] <herve> but I guess it has changed a lot
[08:20] <siretart> herve: I just looked at it, I also think its nice
[08:21] <siretart> are there any ppc users/motus here?
[08:21] <herve> not me
[08:22] <herve> but a mac mini, some day... hmm :-)
[08:23] <siretart> :)
[08:23] <siretart> I uploaded vcdimager, and It got autobuilt on amd64 and i386, not on ppc
[08:23] <siretart> because the testsuite failed!
[08:24] <siretart> and comparing with the buildlogs from debian, I dont see why it fails :(
[08:27] <ivoks> herve: didn't change anything, but will now
[08:27] <ivoks> :)
[08:28] <ivoks> herve: it will discover wifi interface and configure it self for it
[08:28] <herve> more ubuntu compliant? :-)
[08:28] <ivoks> so.. should i change revision or leave it as inital release?
[08:28] <ivoks> yeah, more "for dummies" :)
[08:28] <herve> hmm...
[08:29] <ivoks> don't get me wrong :)
[08:29] <herve> it doesn't really matter since your package never ended in an official repository
[08:29] <ivoks> ok
[08:29] <herve> but if some users are already using it
[08:29] <ivoks> then it will stay official relase
[08:29] <herve> it would be "honest" to bump the version
[08:29] <ivoks> ok :)
[08:30] <herve> and with 0ubuntu1
[08:30] <herve> for the package
[08:30] <ivoks> i'll be honest then
[08:32] <ivoks> gr... i created postinst script and how do i call it from rules?
[08:32] <ivoks> i'm looking at example, but it's with cdbs :(
[08:32] <siretart> dont call postinst yourself, let dpkg call it for you
[08:33] <ivoks> so i just create script?
[08:33] <ivoks> it will call it automagicaly?
[08:33] <ivoks> :)
[08:34] <herve> at install
[08:34] <herve> +time
[08:35] <ivoks> ?
[08:35] <herve> !
[08:36] <tseng> $
[08:36] <siretart> jupp
[08:38] <herve> ivoks: http://women.alioth.debian.org/wiki/index.php/English/MaintainerScripts
[08:38] <herve> not easy to search on their site
[08:40] <ivoks> all right, it works :)
[08:41] <ivoks> new version uploaded
[08:42] <ivoks> hm...
[08:42] <ivoks> one more change...
[08:42] <herve> hehe
[08:42] <ivoks>  /etc/wifi-radar.sh should have 600 permissons
[08:42] <ivoks> not 644
[08:42] <ivoks> s/sh/conf
[08:43] <siretart> ivoks: why? are passwords saved there?
[08:43] <herve> a script with no executable bit?
[08:43] <ivoks> herve: it's .conf, not .sh :)
[08:44] <ivoks> siretart: keys for WEP
[08:44] <siretart> ah, well. thats right..
[08:46] <ivoks> hm..
[08:46] <ivoks> i should change perm in postinst?
[08:46] <ivoks> i can't do that with rules?
[08:46] <siretart> ivoks: ah, that brings me a suggestion
[08:47] <siretart> ivoks: I dont think that /etc/wifi-radar.sh should be a conffile
[08:47] <ivoks> :)
[08:47] <siretart> ivoks: it is a configuration file, but not a conffile
[08:47] <ivoks>  its /etc/wifi-radar.conf
[08:47] <siretart> argl, I'm talking about /etc/wifi-radar.conf
[08:47] <ivoks> wifi-radar has profiles
[08:47] <siretart> so it should imo not be installed via debian/rules but via postinst
[08:47] <ivoks> it stores profiles in that dir
[08:48] <ivoks> ah... ok...
[08:48] <siretart> do you understand the difference?
[08:48] <ivoks> not really...
[08:48] <ivoks> :)
[08:48] <ivoks> confflie are files with something allready in it?
[08:48] <siretart> (im not really sure if I got it right). Basically it differs when it comes to upgrades:
[08:48] <ivoks> siretart: right!
[08:49] <ivoks> upgrade will not erase conffile
[08:49] <ivoks> that's right
[08:49] <siretart> when dpkg sees that the new package having the file, it will ask the user what to do
[08:49] <ivoks> hm.. wifi-radar.conf must not be changed!
[08:49] <ivoks> because all profiles are in it
[08:49] <siretart> in this specific case, we (persumably) always want to preserve the user edited config file
[08:50] <ivoks> siretart: that's why it has to be in rules
[08:50] <siretart> ivoks: ok, then thats clear. /etc/wifi-radar.conf MUST NOT be installed via debian/rules
[08:50] <ivoks> wait...
[08:50] <ivoks> it i put it in postinst
[08:50] <ivoks> it will be erased
[08:50] <ivoks> if it stays in rules, it will ask user what to do
[08:50] <ivoks> and not overwrite it
[08:51] <siretart> but these dpkg interruptions are really annoying.
[08:51] <ivoks> ok, i could check for file before copying...
[08:51] <siretart> I think this is handled somewhere in the debian policy
[08:51] <ivoks> no! it stays in rules
[08:52] <ivoks> if i put new feauters in that file
[08:52] <ivoks> i wouldn't be able to implement them
[08:52] <ivoks> via dpkg, it will suggest diff, overwrite or leave it as is
[08:53] <siretart> the configure part should be able to convert the current config to the new format, if necessary
[08:53] <ivoks> or u'm thinking wrong?
[08:53] <siretart> there was recently some discussion on debian-mentors, I think
[08:53] <siretart> about this
[08:53] <ivoks> well... ok
[08:53] <ivoks> it's big chance i wouldn't add anything to that file
[08:54] <ivoks> it will allways be possible to insert it via sed
[08:54] <ivoks> under global
[08:54] <ivoks> ok, it goes in postinst
[08:55] <siretart> this thread might be relevant: http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2004/10/msg00128.html
[08:55] <siretart> afk - brb
[08:58] <ivoks> for now, let it be in rules...
[08:58] <ivoks> in another revision i will consider something else
[08:59] <siretart> right
[08:59] <siretart> lets here some comments from more experienced maintainers
[09:01] <herve> sometimes I woner
[09:02] <herve> wonder if conffiles are an official feature
[09:02] <herve> the policy only cites it once
[09:02] <herve> and no index
[09:02] <siretart> herve: I never understood this dpkg conffile handling correctly, too
[09:03] <ivoks> look! people in #ubuntu.hr :) O M G! :)
[09:03] <siretart> that means, I know what dpkg does with conffiles. but I'm not sure about all consequences
[09:04] <siretart> ivoks: sorry, I dont speak your language ;) I'm also having problems reading a hungarian street map ;)
[09:04] <ivoks> :)
[09:04] <ivoks> hm... that's very bad postinst script :(
[09:04] <ivoks> echo "interface=$WLAN" >> /etc/wifi-radar.conf
[09:04] <ivoks> this just isn't right...
[09:05] <herve> at first, check if it is not already defined
[09:05] <herve> remember maintainer scripts must be run several times without incident
[09:07] <ivoks> it has set -e
[09:07] <ivoks> something else bothers me...
[09:08] <ivoks> if there allready is wifi-radar.conf
[09:08] <ivoks> this should be initial release
[09:08] <ivoks> oh... damn... i'm confused
[10:29] <ivoks> bye
[10:29] <siretart> bye ivoks
[10:29] <crimmy> l8r
[10:29] <herve> have a nice trip
[10:30] <ivoks> thanx :)
[10:52] <siretart> well, http://www.uk.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-files.html#s-config-files is the relevant section of the policy for conffiles
[11:02] <ivoks> ok :)
[11:02] <ivoks> me again :)
[11:02] <ivoks> siretart: i changed wifi-radar
[11:03] <siretart> ivoks: http://www.uk.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-files.html#s-config-files is the relevant section in the policy, I looked it up for you
[11:03] <siretart> re btw ;)
[11:05] <ivoks> then it's configuration file, not conffile
[11:05] <siretart> yeah
[11:05] <ivoks> The maintainer scripts must not alter a conffile of any package, including the one the scripts belong to.
[11:05] <ivoks> that's it...
[11:06] <ivoks> ok, then this version of wifi-radar package is final
[11:13] <siretart> ivoks: yes, thats gonna make upgrades more convinient
[11:14] <ivoks> yeah
[11:14] <ivoks> and if i need to append or inster/change something
[11:14] <ivoks> it's easily with sed
[11:15] <MarioOs> hello
[11:15] <ivoks> bok :)
[11:16] <ivoks> MarioOs: we are at ubuntu-hr now
[11:16] <MarioOs> english only, please
[11:16] <ivoks> is this turkish? :)
[11:16] <MarioOs> yup, turkish it is
[11:16] <siretart> ivoks: I never used it before, but I think ucf could be handy here
[11:16] <MarioOs> why not hr.ubuntu
[11:17] <ivoks> siretart: step by step :)
[11:18] <siretart> ivoks: :)
[11:29] <ivoks> so, you are fine with package?
[11:30] <ivoks> heh...
[11:30] <ivoks> fluxbox guy
[11:30] <MarioOs> whats wrong with fluxbox
[11:30] <ivoks> bye all
[11:30] <ivoks> see you tomorrow
[11:30] <MarioOs> bye


[00:30] <EvilResistance> anyone here in-channel have bugcontrol on ubuntu bugs on launchpad?
[00:31] <roadmr_uds> EvilResistance: some people might, what do you need? :)
[00:31] <EvilResistance> roadmr_uds, a specific bug's importance changed from "Undecided" to "Medium"
[00:31] <EvilResistance> <Resistance> bugcontrol members: this (I believe) should have importance level of Medium:  LP Bug 991179
[00:31] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 991179 in boinc "7.0.24 "computation error" bug" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/991179
[00:32] <EvilResistance> (posted the request about an hour ago)
[00:32] <EvilResistance> roadmr_uds, at this point it just needs a bugcontrol person to do that, otherwise nothing else is of importance on it
[00:33] <roadmr_uds> EvilResistance: did you look at bug importance criteria? why is it medium in your opinion?
[00:34] <EvilResistance> roadmr_uds, given that the program is non-core, and given the bug affects 11 people, and given that it impacts the functionality of the non-core program in a significant manner, I believe it should be Medium.  (from the Bugs/Importance page, under "Medium": A bug that has a severe impact on a non-core application.)
[00:35] <EvilResistance> normally i'd say 'low" but given 11 people are tagged as having had this affect them...
[00:35] <roadmr_uds> EvilResistance: awesome, thanks, well-researched!
[00:35] <roadmr_uds> EvilResistance: do you have a launchpad id?
[00:35] <EvilResistance> roadmr_uds, i'm on the bug squad, trekcaptainusa-tw
[00:35]  * EvilResistance is also an Ubuntu Member
[00:36] <roadmr_uds> EvilResistance: ok, importance set to Medium
[00:36] <EvilResistance> i still occasionally refer to that page, but given that most of the bugs i touch/see are non-core (Universe, Multiverse), I've memorized impact/Importance for non-core
[00:37] <roadmr_uds> EvilResistance: sorry it took so long for your request to be looked at
[00:37] <EvilResistance> (I still refer to the page on the wiki, though, just to reconfirm my memory)
[00:37] <EvilResistance> roadmr_uds, its UDS, its expected
[00:37] <EvilResistance> that, and I usually repost every hour or otwo ;P
[00:37] <roadmr_uds> EvilResistance: hehe :) ok, well hopefully it'll be of help
[00:39] <EvilResistance> well, the solution is either (a) fix the current bugs in 7.0.24 of boinc, or (2) get 7.0.27 (which already has the fixes) from Debian to build in Quantal
[00:39] <EvilResistance> right now, neither 7.0.24 nor 7.0.27 build in Quantal
[00:39]  * EvilResistance confirmed this in chroots and pbuilder
[00:40] <EvilResistance> and thanks
[05:02] <windbuntu> i would like to report a bug
[08:25] <njin> hello, I can see multiple entries in software center, is Sc bug or needs to be reported for every apps ?
[09:15] <txomon|home> njin, you can search for a bug like that in launchpad, and if doesn't exist fill one
[09:19] <ersi> If it doesn't exist, should it be filed against the software center application, or towards the individual applications that show up several times though?
[13:28] <ersi> 15:16 < BKC> no bugs for me yet >.<
[13:28] <ersi> oops, wrong window :-P
[13:28] <Resistance> :P
[13:28] <ersi> fitting mispaste though
[13:28] <Resistance> heh
[13:52] <Resistance> roadmr_uds:  enjoying UDS?  :P
[18:30] <EvilResistance> is 'totem' considered core?
[18:30] <EvilResistance> whoops wrong channel
[18:32] <EvilResistance> anyone here on bugcontrol?  LP Bug 402962 - Severity on 'totem' should be set to 'Low'.  My reasoning on this is as follows: (1) This is a bug which affects 16 people.  (2) This bug, while annoying, does not impact an essential aspect of the program and functionality.  (3) from what research i was able to gather, totem' is not primarily considered part of the "Ubuntu Core" programs
[18:32] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 402962 in totem "Notify OSD should not rely on applications that inhibit the screensaver" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/402962
[18:34] <EvilResistance> however, alternatively, if I am incorrect about it being non-core, and it is indeed core, then it should be considered "Medium" according to the documentaiton on bug importance.
[18:38]  * micahg looks
[18:39] <EvilResistance> and of course, micahg knows that 'core' and its definition needs to be defined at the next BugSquad meeting
[18:39] <EvilResistance> defined better*
[18:41] <micahg> EvilResistance: agreed on Low importance
[18:42] <micahg> EvilResistance: but the subject needs to be changed to reflect the bug
[18:42] <EvilResistance> micahg:  i agree, but since i'm reading it via a mobile device... i cant exactly edit easily
[18:42] <EvilResistance> could you do me a favor and change the title accordingly?
[18:42] <EvilResistance> i may be IRC-ing from my computer, but FFox is undergoing upgrades
[18:42] <micahg> EvilResistance: heh, can you fix it later an ping me and I'll set the triage settings
[18:43] <EvilResistance> wonderful, thanks.
[18:43] <micahg> EvilResistance: this could probably use upstreaming as well to bugzilla.gnome.org
[18:44] <EvilResistance> micahg:  i'll take a look at upstreaming it, this'd be the first upstreaming of a bug i'd be doing, but right now i'm out the door
[18:45]  * EvilResistance has a meeting on ITSec policy for his job, and his attendance is mandatory
[18:45] <micahg> EvilResistance: ok, first thing is to search for an existing bug
[18:45] <micahg> EvilResistance: sure, whenever you get a chance
[19:39] <patrickceg> Hello, I would like to familiarize myself with the Ubuntu codebase - hopefully to get into triage or automated testing later. Any tips for doing so?
[19:46] <KurtKraut> My LibreOffice in Ubuntu 12.04 is crashing during load. Apport sends the debug data and I'd like to see in Launchpad the data Apport sent and help developers giving further details. how should I proceed?
[19:46] <KurtKraut> Apport, for instance, doesn't give a clear context on what I was doing when the crash happened. I'd like to add this kind of info with the data already sent to Launchpad through Apport.
[20:28] <luc4> Hi! I made a mistake. I reported a bug on launchpad, but I mistakenly reported it as if it was a Ubuntu bug. I just noticed there is a different place for Kubuntu. What is it better to do?
[20:29] <greg-g> luc4: what bug number?
[20:29] <luc4> #997767
[20:30] <greg-g> bug 997767
[20:30] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 997767 in ubuntu "Network connection is lost after some hours of inactivity and comes up again on user interaction" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/997767
[20:30] <greg-g> luc4: here are Kubuntu specific bug reporting guidelines: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Bugs/Reporting
[20:30] <greg-g> and yes, the do use Launchpad to manage their bugs
[20:31] <luc4> Also, I have absolutely no idea what package it refers to. Might be anything. Kernel, KDE, networking service.... But the message requires me to mark for one. What could I do?
[20:31] <greg-g> luc4: I would ask over in #kubuntu ;)
[20:31]  * greg-g doesn't know KDE/Kubuntu very well
[20:32] <luc4> greg-g: tried many times there, but they have no idea.
[20:32] <luc4> greg-g: I also tried on #kde and #ubuntu.
[20:33] <luc4> greg-g: but everyone keeps telling me they have no idea. But this seems quite severe!
[20:34] <greg-g> it is a hard problem to diagnose, unfortunately
[20:34] <greg-g> luc4: try #kubuntu-devel
[20:34] <luc4> greg-g: ok, thanks!
[20:34] <greg-g> luc4: tell them that no one in #ubuntu, #kubuntu, nor #kde could figure it out
[20:34] <greg-g> np
[20:39] <luc4> greg-g: but can I move the bug to kubuntu bugs or do I have to recreate it?
[20:40] <greg-g> luc4: just leave it where it is, it is fine there
[20:40] <luc4> greg-g: thanks again then!
[20:40] <greg-g> np
[20:40] <greg-g> thanks for trying to do the right thing :)
[20:41] <luc4> greg-g: I think it is important :-)
[20:49] <alo21_> hi all
[20:50] <alo21_> I have a big problem understanding C
[20:52] <alo21_> can some one help me?
[20:54] <Pici> The folks in ##C are helpful.
[21:01] <alo21_> thank you
[22:48] <Resistance> micahg:  you told me to poke you when i got around to fixing the title on LP Bug 402962, so you'd set the Low importance on the totem package (as discussed a while ago)
[22:48] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 402962 in totem "Totem inhibits screensaver when playing music" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/402962
[22:49] <micahg> Resistance: looking
[22:49] <Resistance> see chat logs from... oh... a while ago i think
[22:50] <Resistance> at least 4 hours ago
[22:50] <micahg> Resistance: done, please look at upstreaming as well
[22:50] <Resistance> i'm still checking upstream, but i'm lagging on their bugtracker
[22:50] <Resistance> lol, i was typing that as you said to check upstream :P
[22:50] <micahg> Resistance: thanks
[22:53] <Resistance> micahg:  there's no matching bugs upstream, should i therefore file the bug upstream and link to it in the LP bug?
[22:54] <micahg> Resistance: yes please, and you can add the LP bug in the see also field
[23:00] <Resistance> micahg:  should i only upstream the relevant bits of the bug that refer to totem?
[23:00] <Resistance> or should i just upstream a clone of the LP bug?
[23:01] <micahg> Resistance: relevant please
[23:01] <micahg> I'll be back in a few minutes
[23:01] <Resistance> that's what i thought.
[23:40] <crjon> Hello
[23:41] <crjon> Hey is there anyone out there that can get me started working on bugs
[23:46] <crjon> roadmr_uds, can you talk to a newbie?
[23:46] <Resistance> crjon:  he's at UDS probably
[23:46] <Resistance> there's quite a few UDS meetings going on right now
[23:46] <Resistance> (I'm in one remotely, even)
[23:47] <Resistance> you may need to wait a bit to get a decent response, but I recommend starting out reading here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
[23:47] <crjon> oh, sorry I am new to this how do I get in one of those
[23:47] <Resistance> and is there any specific aspect of bugs you wanted to focus on?  fixing?  filing?  etc.
[23:47]  * Resistance focuses on triaging with his duties in BugSquad
[23:48] <crjon> well my ultimate goal is coding but I figured that a good place to start would be to help fix other peoples code just to get my hands on some
[23:49] <micahg> crjon: if you're into fixing bugs, #ubuntu-motu might be a better place
[23:49] <crjon> ah, ok, thanks
[23:49] <crjon> is this more for documenting
[23:50] <micahg> this channel is more for triage
[23:50] <crjon> OK, cool, well thank you for the info, take care
[23:55] <Resistance> hey micahg when's the next BugSquad meeting?
[23:55] <Resistance> or do you even know?
[23:55] <micahg> Resistance: next wed at 17:00 UTC I think
[23:56] <Resistance> bleh, that's right in the middle of my work day :/
[23:56] <Resistance> *shrugs*
[23:57] <Daekdroom> That's right at the beginning of my Logic I class.
[23:57] <Daekdroom> But this channel is logged somewhere, isn't it?
[23:58] <Resistance> micahg:  do me a favor, then, at the meeting: voice my concern about how 'core' vs. 'non-core' is pretty ambiguous to some extent, so while some things might be core, others are non-core.
[23:58] <Resistance> and that the lines between those two are not clearly defined
[23:58] <micahg> Resistance: if I make it
[23:58] <Resistance> well then someone'll have to voice that concern
[23:58] <Resistance> its unlikely i'll make it there


[00:43] <mugwump> sadmac2: re: committing printf's, doesn't bzr have an equivalent of 'darcs record' / 'git add -p'
[00:43] <mugwump> ?
[00:43] <mugwump> assuming upstart is in bzr..
[00:48] <sadmac2> mugwump: its a bit too interleaved for that to be easy
[00:48] <mugwump> I tend to rebase a lot with git to preen my changes down
[00:49] <mugwump> it's a longer path, but hugely satisfying once you've travelled a while down it...
[00:50] <mugwump> eg, knowing that no change breaks the test suite makes finding regressions pretty easy
[00:52] <ion> Yeah, i constantly use rebase -i for unpushed changes.
[01:00] <sadmac2> ion: any idea why the macruby interpreter rakefile would run dtrace
[01:00] <sadmac2> ?
[01:41] <ion> sadmac: I have no idea.
[01:42] <ion> Something to do with unit tests maybe?
[01:42] <sadmac2> ion: something to do with probe points I think
[09:17] <Daviey> What is the best way of having an upstart job depends/requires on another process, that is still sysv?
[09:18] <Daviey> Am i correct in saying that upstart checks "start on starting xyz" sagainst upstart jobs only?
[09:22] <Daviey> Additionally, does anyone have an example of a job that sources variables from a conf file, for the exec line?
[09:23] <Daviey> is it as trival as you would expect?
[14:59] <sadmac> Daviey: you can add "initctl emit" lines to your sysv scripts to make them emit events, which offers upstart a way to interact with them
[16:30] <ion> keybuk: A random thought about prioritizing fscks and mounts: with the current system, if we’re already running fsck for /notimportant and then a partition for /important on the same device appears, it’s not possible to get /important queued any sooner than after the /notimportant check. How about this instead: don’t lock anything and start everything in parallel, but for each device, have only one fsck (the one deemed most important at any moment) running ...
[16:30] <ion> ... with normal ionice prioritiy, and ionice all other instances ‘idle’. If we’re running a fsck for /notimportant and /important appears, the fsck for /notimportant would be changed to idle priority until the check for /important finishes.
[16:37] <ion> keybuk: I take it that change would be too big for karmic at this point?
[16:37] <ion> if i came up with a patch, say, today :-P
[16:40] <Keybuk> can you change the io priority of other processes?
[16:40] <Keybuk> if you can make the patch work, I can merge it
[16:41] <Keybuk> still have the fsck progress patch to merge
[16:42] <ion> /usr/bin/ionice has a -p PID parameter, so it should be possible.
[16:49] <Keybuk> neat
[16:52] <sadmac> either something's wrong with my git tree, or somethings wrong with cscope, or sys_ioprio_set is weird
[16:52] <sadmac> Keybuk, ion: sys_ioprio_set(int which, int who, int ioprio)
[16:53] <sadmac> I could disambiguate that a bit if I could find the actual definition
[16:55] <sadmac> ... is it written in ASM?!
[16:58] <sadmac> no, its just missing...weird...
[17:03] <Keybuk> it's probably under arch/
[17:05] <sadmac> Keybuk: I've grepped. its nowhere
[17:05] <sadmac> Keybuk: every entry.S mentions it. syscalls.h mentions it. No source file mentions it.
[17:07] <ion> The ioprio_set manpage is clear enough. :-)
[17:08] <Keybuk> sadmac: fs/ioprio.c:75 no?
[17:09] <sadmac> Keybuk: ah. figured it was something like that.
[17:09] <sadmac> worthless macros making the world a better place.
[17:27] <ion> keybuk: Is a simple check for (mnt->tag > TAG_OTHER) a good rule for prioritizing running fsck instances?
[17:27] <Keybuk> ion: yes
[23:15] <TomJaeger> Bug #439138 is getting to be real frustrating.  Could someone explain what the deal with console owner is?
[23:19] <Keybuk> ok
[23:19] <Keybuk> it's about time I wrote this down
[23:19] <Keybuk> and please do feel free to tidy up what I write and paste it liberally ;)
[23:20] <Keybuk> in Linux, we have consoles
[23:20] <Keybuk> but really we mean Virtual Terminals (VTs)
[23:20] <Keybuk> and we have TTYs too
[23:20] <Keybuk> not to mention Pseudo-Terminals
[23:20] <Keybuk> (PTYs)
[23:20] <Keybuk> it's all a bit of the kind of jumble sale you get after 40 years of different solutions to different problems
[23:21] <Keybuk> we can lump them together under the description "terminals" for the next bit
[23:21] <Keybuk> we also have processes
[23:23] <TomJaeger> okay, so far so good
[23:26] <Keybuk> now, processes have a lot of odd little details
[23:26] <Keybuk> they have a parent
[23:26] <Keybuk> they have a session
[23:26] <Keybuk> and a session has a foreground process group
[23:26] <Keybuk> and a background process group
[23:27] <Keybuk> now Stevens devotes an entire chapter for this
[23:27] <Keybuk> and nobody but me apparently understands it ;)
[23:28] <Keybuk> (and hopefully the guy who maintains the kernel side)
[23:28] <Keybuk> but it works something like that
[23:28] <Keybuk> each process is part of a session
[23:28] <Keybuk> a process may begin a new session by calling setsid()
[23:28] <Keybuk> every process that init creates is in its own session
[23:28] <Keybuk> the process is also then the leader of the foreground process group of that session
[23:28] <Keybuk> new processes are also in that session
[23:28] <Keybuk> and in that process group
[23:28] <Keybuk> unless otherwise placed into a new process group
[23:29] <Keybuk> (setpgrp)
[23:29] <Keybuk> any new process group is a background process group
[23:29] <Keybuk> so now, you have a bunch of sessions
[23:29] <Keybuk> each session has a bunch of process groups, one of which is the foreground process group
[23:29] <Keybuk> each process group has a bunch of processes, one of which is the leader
[23:29] <Keybuk> with me so far?
[23:29] <TomJaeger> okay
[23:30] <Keybuk> right
[23:30] <Keybuk> so this all has to do, fundamentally, with terminals
[23:31] <Keybuk> and who gets the signals
[23:31] <Keybuk> when the leader of the foreground process group of a session opens a terminal device (without O_NOCTTY) that becomes the CONTROLLING TERMINAL of that process group
[23:31] <Keybuk> (in fact of that session)
[23:32] <Keybuk> the terminal and the session become bound to each other
[23:32] <Keybuk> you can fake this another way by opening a terminal device without O_NOCTTY (or having one passed to you) and then calling the TIOCSCTTY ioctl
[23:33] <Keybuk> ok
[23:33] <Keybuk> so
[23:33] <Keybuk> terminals, controlling terminals and processes
[23:33] <Keybuk> here's where this gets fun
[23:33] <Keybuk> if the controlling terminal is hung up, SIGHUP is sent to the foreground process group
[23:33] <Keybuk> if ^C is pressed on the controlling terminal, SIGINT is sent to the foreground process group
[23:33] <Keybuk> if ^Z is pressed on the controlling terminal, SIGTSTP is sent to the foreground process group
[23:34] <Keybuk> (you're getting the idea here I guess)
[23:34] <TomJaeger> yup
[23:34] <Keybuk> so this is how the relationship between magic key presses and signals gets established
[23:34] <Keybuk> shells care about this a lot
[23:35] <Keybuk> (and yes, when you use & that becomes a background process group :p)
[23:35] <Keybuk> (and when you use | they are all in the same process group)
[23:35] <Keybuk> anyhoo
[23:35] <Keybuk> onwards
[23:35] <Keybuk> now
[23:35] <Keybuk> this controlling terminal business applies to all terminals
[23:35] <Keybuk> whether they be true terminals (which linux doesn't have)
[23:35] <Keybuk> or virtual terminals
[23:36] <Keybuk> or pseudo terminals
[23:36] <Keybuk> so this is as true for your ssh login as VT1
[23:36] <TomJaeger> okay
[23:36] <Keybuk> you can always access your *controlling terminal* using /dev/tty
[23:36] <Keybuk> it's a badly named device node
[23:36] <Keybuk> it may also be called /dev/ttyS0 or /dev/pts/4 etc.
[23:37] <Keybuk> so right
[23:37] <Keybuk> Linux has a bunch of virtual terminals
[23:37] <Keybuk> these are the things we think of when we say "console" but we're using that wrong
[23:37] <Keybuk> virtual terminals behave just like ordinary terminals
[23:37] <Keybuk> they can be the controlling terminal for a process group
[23:38] <Keybuk> but, unfortunately, stacked on top is the linux vt API
[23:38] <Keybuk> (they didn't think to make it separate)
[23:38] <Keybuk> so the stuff to set fonts
[23:38] <Keybuk> to place it in raw or graphics mode
[23:38] <Keybuk> to create new vts
[23:38] <Keybuk> to switch vts
[23:38] <Keybuk> etc.
[23:38] <Keybuk> is all loaded into the tty api
[23:39] <Keybuk> so, in order for X to function, it needs a VT
[23:39] <TomJaeger> right
[23:39] <Keybuk> and it needs access to that VT in interesting and familiar ways to place it into raw and graphics mode
[23:39] <Keybuk> and so on
[23:39] <Keybuk> it also needs to know if the *current VT* is switched
[23:39] <Keybuk> so it opens the VT device it wants (/dev/tty7)
[23:39] <Keybuk> and that becomes its controlling terminal
[23:39] <Keybuk> so if you were to delete VT7, X would get SIGHUP :)
[23:40] <Keybuk> now, on VT1-6 you have getty
[23:40] <Keybuk> on VT8 you have usplash
[23:40] <Keybuk> and so on
[23:40] <Keybuk> this is all fine and dandy
[23:40] <Keybuk> except there's this last mystical piece
[23:40] <Keybuk> /dev/console
[23:40] <Keybuk> /dev/console is, like /dev/tty, a fake device
[23:41] <Keybuk> it points at the currently active VT
[23:41] <Keybuk> whatever that is
[23:41] <Keybuk> but it *behaves* like a terminal in its own right
[23:41] <Keybuk> (whereas /dev/tty just behaves as a proxy for the underlying terminal)
[23:41] <Keybuk> now, Upstart has a few knobs to customise the standard input, output & error file descriptors
[23:41] <Keybuk> normally it just starts all jobs with them as /dev/null
[23:42] <Keybuk> but for *emulation of sysvinit* it has two other options
[23:42] <Keybuk>  1. set them to /dev/console
[23:42] <Keybuk>  2. set them to /dev/console and issue the TIOCSCTTY ioctl()
[23:42] <Keybuk> (console output, console owner)
[23:42] <Keybuk> now, if your current VT is 7 (X)
[23:42] <Keybuk> and you start a job that has console owner in it
[23:43] <Keybuk> the new process will *take the terminal away from X*
[23:43] <Keybuk> X gets SIGHUP
[23:43] <Keybuk> and either hits 100% CPU or crashes
[23:43] <Keybuk> so this is clearly BAD
[23:44] <Keybuk> the problem really is that things need a "console" at all
[23:44] <Keybuk> jobs that require interaction should DO IT THEMSELVES
[23:45] <Keybuk> they should open a VT, switch to it, and ask there
[23:45] <Keybuk> or they should use usplash to do it
[23:45] <Keybuk> or they should use X
[23:47] <TomJaeger> hmm
[23:50] <TomJaeger> this (switching to an unused VT, asking for a pass, and then switching back) doesn't sound too hard
[23:50] <Keybuk> "start usplash"
[23:50] <Keybuk> you can do that under X
[23:50] <Keybuk> (please don't try it unless you have an Intel card right now <g>)
[23:52] <TomJaeger> "start usplash" doesn't do anything here (i965)
[23:54] <Keybuk> really?
[23:54] <Keybuk> that's odd :)
[23:55] <TomJaeger> I get this: usplash stop/pre-start, process 2357
[23:56] <TomJaeger> but either way, that doesn't seem to be an option right now if it breaks on non-intel hardware.
[23:58] <Keybuk> that's a bug we have to fix for release anyway