[10:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed [amd64] (focal-proposed/main) [5.4.0-17.21] (core, kernel)
[10:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed [s390x] (focal-proposed/main) [5.4.0-17.21] (core, kernel)
[10:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed [ppc64el] (focal-proposed/main) [5.4.0-17.21] (core, kernel)
[10:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed [arm64] (focal-proposed/main) [5.4.0-17.21] (core, kernel)
[10:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed [amd64] (focal-proposed) [5.4.0-17.21]
[10:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed [ppc64el] (focal-proposed) [5.4.0-17.21]
[10:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed [arm64] (focal-proposed) [5.4.0-17.21]
[10:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed [s390x] (focal-proposed) [5.4.0-17.21]
[12:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-hwe [amd64] (xenial-proposed/main) [4.15.0-91.92~16.04.1] (kernel)
[12:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-hwe [amd64] (bionic-proposed/main) [5.3.0-42.34~18.04.1] (kernel)
[12:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-hwe [ppc64el] (xenial-proposed/main) [4.15.0-91.92~16.04.1] (kernel)
[12:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-hwe [ppc64el] (bionic-proposed/main) [5.3.0-42.34~18.04.1] (kernel)
[12:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-hwe [arm64] (bionic-proposed/main) [5.3.0-42.34~18.04.1] (kernel)
[13:01] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-hwe [amd64] (bionic-proposed) [5.3.0-42.34~18.04.1]
[13:01] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-hwe [ppc64el] (bionic-proposed) [5.3.0-42.34~18.04.1]
[13:01] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-hwe [arm64] (bionic-proposed) [5.3.0-42.34~18.04.1]
[13:02] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-hwe [amd64] (xenial-proposed) [4.15.0-91.92~16.04.1]
[13:02] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-hwe [ppc64el] (xenial-proposed) [4.15.0-91.92~16.04.1]


[00:14] <Laibsch> tumbleweed: bug 807545 is another example of a bug that's been ignored for months now.  Maybe you want to look into the situation where the dev-release is fixed/invalid, but some SRU needs to happen?
[00:14] <Laibsch> s/example of a bug/example of a patch/
[01:49] <MrBIOS> hey folks
[01:49] <MrBIOS> is there a UDS-specific channel, or is this the closest thing to it?
[01:59] <ajmitch> probably #ubuntu-uds, if past events are anything to go by
[05:58] <siretart> cjwatson: yeah, this time, I took some extra time for the merge, in total two evenings. My goal was to minimize the diff as well as possible and clarify the current situation as good as possible
[05:58] <siretart> cjwatson: and you are totally right, the previous merge changelog was done rather in a hurry, and nothing really has changed wrt system/internal library copies
[05:59] <siretart> cjwatson: btw, do you see any realistic chance that we can demote xine-lib to universe?
[09:05] <siretart> wow. the kubuntu-devel mailing list automatically rejects postings for non subscribers.
[09:10] <lifeless> siretart: is it on l.l.n or l.u.c or elsewhere ?
[09:10] <\sh> grmpf
[09:11] <\sh> syncpackage  --force -d wheezy -r precise  pinot -> fails
[09:11] <siretart> lifeless: lists.ubuntu.com.
[09:12] <bdrung> \sh: use the proposed version or the daily build of u-d-t
[09:12] <siretart> lifeless: already mailed -owner, but I'd be surprised if they'd care. the automatic message I've received was quite unfriendly, TBH.
[09:13] <\sh> bdrung, any reason why the others were working but only pinot is failing?
[09:13] <bdrung> \sh: because the changelog is not yet available on debian
[09:13] <debfx> and yet launchpad manages to spam kubuntu-devel with merge requests every now and then
[09:14] <\sh> bdrung, and a newer release of syncpackage fixes this?
[09:16] <bdrung> \sh: yes
[09:16] <\sh> bdrung, got it...so it doesn't fail anymore when the changelog is missing
[09:16] <bdrung> \sh: bug #880051
[09:17] <siretart> debfx: again, I'm not surprised
[09:17] <bdrung> \sh: it would be nice, if you could confirm the fix
[09:18] <\sh> bdrung, done
[09:22] <lifeless> siretart: :(
[09:24] <debfx> siretart: I think that reject policy should definitely change but I'm not sure who could moderate the list
[10:08] <siretart> debfx: thanks for your response. I hope that this is enough to demote xine-lib
[10:08] <siretart> debfx: feel free to ping me when it got demoted, we can then investigate how to reduce the delta to debian further
[11:54] <DoctorPepper> hi guys!!!
[11:54] <DoctorPepper> agateau:  are your in here ?
[12:13] <MNaumann> Hi, I posted this package removal request/suggestion recently: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/882014 - could someone please check whether it's properly filed?
[12:55] <Chotaz`work> Is this the channel for ubuntu development on bile devices, smartphones and tablets?
[13:07] <lool> slangasek: I've debdiffed udev_173-0ubuntu4.dsc and udev_173-0ubuntu5.dsc and don't see the disappearance of test/ that you mention, so I suspect an earlier upload caused this?  there seems to be a small test/ directory too
[13:11] <Riddell> siretart: rejecting postings from non subscribers is the only sustainable way to run a mailing list, I'm afraid if I had to manually review it each day I'd soon forget
[13:16] <siretart> Riddell: relocating your spam issues to contributors isn't very welcoming nor friendly either.
[13:17] <Riddell> siretart: it's not great right enough but it's the only way I've found of having a working mailing list
[13:22] <siretart> Riddell: Then I disagree with your understanding of 'having a working mailing list': Dropping mail of legitimate users is unfriendly at best.
[13:23] <Riddell> siretart: but I know I don't have the time or self discipline to be the manual filter for it so the end result is the same
[13:24] <azeem_> maybe others would volunteer to moderate
[13:59] <tjaalton> what is the uds irc channel?
[13:59] <broder> #ubuntu-uds
[13:59] <tjaalton> thanks
[13:59] <broder> with #ubuntu-uds-bonaire1 and similar for individual rooms
[14:02] <Laney> the synopsis text on summit is seriously tiny
[14:56] <lamont> why does my laptop think that 43 minutes, 56% battery is "critically low"?
[14:57] <mwhudson> lamont: my laptop used to say that and hibernate when i *plugged in* ac power
[14:57] <lamont> even less bonus
[15:15] <slangasek> lool: interesting, apparently the test/ directory disappeared from upstream several cycles ago but was still sitting on the packaging branch :)
[16:34] <sconklin> cjwatson: you available?
[16:36] <sconklin> anyone know which package/script might set /usr/sbin/update-initramfs as a symlink to /bin/true?
[16:36] <sconklin> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/880476
[16:39] <cjwatson> sconklin: casper, I think
[16:39] <cjwatson> hm, maybe not
[16:40] <cjwatson> can't remember, sorry
[16:40] <cjwatson> ask for 'dpkg -S update-initramfs', that might show it
[16:40] <sconklin> cjwatson: thanks
[16:41] <sconklin> initramfs installs it, but I think something else must have set it as a symlink
[16:42] <sconklin> er initramfs-tools I meant
[16:42] <cjwatson> sure, I meant ask the user
[16:43] <cjwatson> maybe 'dpkg-divert --list | grep update-initramfs'
[16:43] <sconklin> good point, duh.
[16:43] <cjwatson> (that's probably more useful/reliable than dpkg -S, but perhaps ask for both)
[16:43] <sconklin> excellent, I'll ask
[16:45] <sconklin> cjwatson: I didn't know about dpkg-divert --list, thanks!
[16:53] <pasqoo> Hi, I'm setting up pbuilder and the guide tells me to run "pbuilder-dist <release> create"
[16:53] <pasqoo> should I put precise instead of <release>? Or natty?
[16:54] <tumbleweed> pasqoo: we develop against the devolpment release, precise
[16:54] <geser> yes, release is a placeholder for the release you want a pbuilder for
[16:55] <pasqoo> I'm followin this: http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/getting-set-up.html
[16:55] <pasqoo> So probably I should put precise. Thanks tumbleweed geser
[17:12] <buzz_> *grumble* no builders, long queue, impatient.
[17:13] <buzz_> i386 builders due back for ppa building soonish or ?
[17:21] <geser> buzz_: the people in #launchpad might know better when the additional PPA builders come back
[17:22] <buzz_> thanks
[17:43] <chrisccoulson> b
[18:21] <AnAnt> Hello, which packages installs/creates /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf ?
[18:21] <AnAnt> $dpkg -S /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
[18:21] <AnAnt> dpkg-query: no path found matching pattern /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf.
[18:22] <micahg> AnAnt: the greeter I think
[18:22] <AnAnt> ^ that's the output on an oneiric system
[18:22] <TheMuso> AnAnt: That would be the lightdm package.
[18:22] <TheMuso> micahg: The greeter ships its own configuration file.
[18:23] <micahg> TheMuso: ah, right
[18:23] <AnAnt> http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/amd64/lightdm/filelist <= /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf is not there
[18:24] <htorque> i don't think that file is there by default, but it gets generated when i do something like "sudo /usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm-set-defaults -s <session-name>"
[18:25] <AnAnt> htorque: aha
[18:25] <AnAnt> htorque: thanks
[19:51] <tumbleweed> pitti: I see you are busy processing SRUs. Can you also please hit oneiric's NEW queue?
[23:01] <nawk> http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/ubuntu-policy/policy.html/ch-controlfields.html#s-debianchangesfiles
[23:02] <nawk> What is the Ubuntu archive maintenance software?
[23:33] <soren> nawk: Launchpad
[23:39] <nawk> hi soren!
[23:45] <nawk> So I am reading about how ubuntu manages packages; I want to get something straight.  Does the Ubuntu archive maintenance software, Launchpad, maintain only those softwares in those handful of repos (multiverse, universe, canonical etc); meaning PPAs owned by other ppl are separate from it?
[23:47] <jelmer> nawk: Launchpad does more than just maintain the Ubuntu archive; it provides PPA as well.
[23:47] <jelmer> as well as features like bugtracking, specifications, translations, etc.
[23:48] <nawk> hi jelmer
[23:48] <nawk> http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/ubuntu-policy/policy.html/ch-controlfields.html#s-debianchangesfiles
[23:49] <jelmer> nawk: sure, what's with that link?
[23:50] <nawk> So suppose I register my own PPA for the archival of a software I wrote, foo-1.3-rc1.deb
[23:51] <nawk> For launchpad to "process updates to packages", i'd want/need to have .changes files in there too right?
[23:54] <jelmer> yes, you generally upload a set of files  to Launchpad - usually a tarball with the upstream source, a changes files, a .dsc file and the ubuntu-specific changes (usually .diff.gz or .debian.tar.gz)


[03:33] <Eickmeyer> Somebody reported my G+ profile as spam for announcing the wallpaper contest winners. My account is now suspended.
[03:36] <krytarik> LOL :D


[01:26] <fenix-migusta> hello
[01:27] <fenix-migusta> olá
[01:30] <fenix-migusta> hi??
[02:13] <colon_D> how long does it usually take to delete a PPA from your account? i wanted to recreate mine from scratch and its been showing up grayed out for the last 5 hours :(
[02:21] <EvilResistance> colon_D:  it seems it'll be greyed out forever :/
[02:21]  * EvilResistance has 3 PPAs he flagged for deletion a year ago and they're still not poof'd
[02:21] <colon_D> ahh...good to know, lol
[02:22] <colon_D> I guess I'll try to recreate one with the same name..see what happens
[02:23] <colon_D> Doh... "You already have a PPA named 'foobar'."
[02:24] <wgrant> PPA deletion is mostly to allow people to rename their accounts. It doesn't currently let you create a new one with the same name.
[02:26] <colon_D> any admins frequent this chan that could potentially re-enable, or purge?
[02:27] <wgrant> Reenabling is not supported, but can sort of be done.
[02:27] <wgrant> Add /+edit to the URL, check the Enabled and Publish flags.
[02:29] <colon_D> ah, cool.  It's back.
[02:30] <colon_D> I just hope that didn't mess anything up..kind of need this repo working and not poofing at random :/
[02:30] <wgrant> Why did you delete it?
[02:32] <colon_D> well I'm new to the whole PPA thing.  I published my initial commit with the wrong gpg key, and instead of trying to wipe that out, or recommit with the right key I figured I'd just wipe the whole project and start it up again properly so I had a clean slate.  Page said it would take an hour on average, wasn't in a time crunch so went ahead with it
[02:34] <colon_D> Interesting thing is after doing your trick it seems my previously build package is now gone...so looks like a fresh ppa
[02:35] <wgrant> The package is still recorded, just marked deleted.
[02:35] <wgrant> Same as if you'd used the 'Delete packages' link.
[02:36] <colon_D> yup, you're right. it's in there, can see it if I filter for 'Any status'
[02:54] <EvilResistance> wgrant:  alive?
[02:54] <wgrant> EvilResistance: No.
[02:54] <EvilResistance> :P
[02:54] <EvilResistance> or any other person with expert level launchpad-fu
[02:54] <EvilResistance> in any case, my question is this
[02:55] <EvilResistance> if i am trying to backport something within a ppa that i have called ppa:lpid/backports/...
[02:55] <EvilResistance> and the required backported build-dep exists in the aforementioned backports ppa
[02:55] <EvilResistance> will the builders recognize the build-dep version is *in* that ppa?
[02:55] <EvilResistance> or do i have to specify it somehow?
[02:56] <EvilResistance> (the ubuntu-motu people *think* it'll work without any other specifications, but i want to confirm)
[02:56] <wgrant> If they're in the same PPA, or a PPA that is set as a dependency for that PPA, yes, they will be found automatically.
[02:56] <EvilResistance> ah good
[02:56] <EvilResistance> so less worrying for me :P
[04:09] <EvilResistance> is there a way for me to copy the source package of swig2.0 for oneiric into my PPA?
[09:11] <mrevell> ello
[09:18] <jtv> oi
[10:20] <nigelb> Hello mrevell! Back in London?
[10:22] <mrevell> Hey nigelb, back in the UK, yep :)
[10:23] <nigelb> :)
[10:32] <mrevell> Launchpad's Google+ page: https://plus.google.com/b/109129028036222996031/
[10:33] <bigjools> the logo is wonky!
[10:33] <mrevell> Hang on, I'll fix it
[10:34] <lifeless> mrevell: well, thats *your* LP g+ page, right? [current implementation is they are single-owner :P]
[10:34] <bigjools> heh
[10:35] <mrevell> It's the one we've got right now, working within the confines of what they offer. We could go all Ayn Rand, I guess, and set up a bunch of competing Google+ pages for Launchpad.
[10:37] <lifeless> mrevell: yeah baby!
[10:37] <lifeless> mrevell: I don't know whether to admire, or shake head, at googles release process for G+
[10:38] <mrevell> Heh :)
[10:39] <mrevell> bigjools, Logo should be less wonky now.
[10:39] <bigjools> \o/
[10:40] <mrevell> With any luck they'll make it easy to promote pages to multiple ownership.
[10:40] <mrevell> I'm not going to make a big deal about it just yet as I'm still kind of sceptical about how useful it'll be.
[10:41] <lifeless> mrevell: do we have a g+ mirror of @launchpadstatus? That might be useful
[10:41] <lifeless> mrevell: the facebook page is pretty uhm, static
[10:41] <mrevell> lifeless, Now that's a good idea. identi.ca seems slower to respond every time I visit.
[10:42] <lifeless> mrevell: its probably getting more popular :>
[10:43] <mrevell> As for the Facebook page ... I'm handing all of this to Dan. I didn't want it to ape the status feed, as it felt like it should be something other than that ... Facebook being more fluffy, than anything.
[10:44] <lifeless> yeah
[10:44] <lifeless> I'm with you
[10:44] <lifeless> I wonder if it mirroring the blog would be good
[10:44] <lifeless> I think it does already ;)
[10:44] <mrevell> Yeah, or the straight launchpad identi.ca/launchpad_net Twitter feed.
[10:45] <lifeless> G+ status stream mirroring identi.ca, G+ vanity page mirroring blog, perhaps ?
[10:45] <lifeless> I dunno, its all too fluffy for me :)
[10:46] <mrevell> Heh :) Dan's back at work tomorrow, so I'll let him set out a social media strategy (every one of which I've read previously being, "Post to Twitter .... Profit!")
[10:47] <mrevell> I have to admit, the term "social media" makes me shudder a little.
[10:53] <lifeless> mrevell: its like social disease?
[10:55] <mrevell> I think my objection to it comes from my impression that it is often used in place of any actual meaning. It's the current equivalent of "portal"; a word that does have a use and meaning but that was hijacked by bandwagon-jumpers in lieu of having any actual ideas. Also, so called social media experts seem to take themselves very seriously.
[10:57] <lifeless> naturally; they are experts!
[10:57] <mrevell> haha
[10:58] <nigelb> mrevell: They are indeed experts at calling themselves experts :)
[10:59] <mrevell> I don't deny that there is a skill-set that is useful in sparking, then maintaining, enthusiasm around a bunch of Twitter/Facebook stuff but there does seem to be a bit of a bubble in the esteem in which the holders of such skills are held. Anyway, I'm rapidly going off-topic here.
[10:59] <nigelb> heh
[12:25]  * senden9
[12:29] <mardy> hi :-)
[12:29] <allenap> mardy: Hello :)
[12:29] <mardy> there are some error with importing my project from git:
[12:29] <mardy> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/84700393/mardy-webcredentials-libaccounts-glib-trunk.log
[12:31] <allenap> mardy: I've asked someone who's very familiar with this stuff to come and help.
[12:32] <mardy> allenap: thanks
[12:35] <allenap> mardy: jelmer isn't responding right now, but he'll probably be back later.
[12:36] <mardy> allenap: np
[12:45] <jelmer> hi allenap, mardy
[12:47] <mardy> jelmer: hi!
[12:48] <mardy> jelmer: I've some trouble importing my git project into lp:
[12:48] <mardy> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/84700393/mardy-webcredentials-libaccounts-glib-trunk.log
[12:48] <jelmer> what's the code import?
[12:49] <mardy> jelmer: https://code.google.com/p/accounts-sso.libaccounts-glib/
[12:58] <jelmer> mardy: one sec
[13:45] <jelmer> mardy: hi
[13:46] <jelmer> mardy: I've managed to reproduce it locally, but I can't see immediately what's going wrong
[13:46] <mardy> jelmer: hi. Cool!
[14:18] <allenap> bigjools: Fwiw, wrt https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/177795, there's a HOWTO at https://dev.launchpad.net/PolicyAndProcess/BugImportHowto.
[15:00] <mardy> jelmer: any success?
[15:21] <jelmer> mardy: Still looking, but I think I'll have to give up for now and file a bug about this.
[19:18] <jussi> hrm. I think I just found a tiny bug, but Im not certain of what the propper solution is.
[19:22] <jussi> Anyway. I am a member of a team which has someone in it that was a member a while back, ceased to be a member, then came back as a member. LP notes they have been a member since way back when - I *think* it should note they have been a member since only when they rejoined.
[19:23] <jhobbs> should be a setting per group!
[19:25] <beuno> I would expect the opposite (the current behavior)
[19:25] <beuno> especially for accidental expires
[19:26] <Renegade15> the curious question is: Why does it save the previous affiliation in the first place?
[19:26] <Renegade15> Is there a "past memberships" or "previous members" page somewhere?
[19:27] <beuno> I don't think there is on a per-person level
[19:27] <jussi> Renegade15: yes, there is
[19:27] <Renegade15> ah, that explains it
[19:28] <jussi> beuno: hrm, I guess its different use case things here. for say, ubuntu members - that kinda makes sense. for say, the community council, it makes none.
[19:28] <jussi> I thin k the correct behaviour should be to both list them as past and present members
[19:29] <beuno> I think the answer here is that it needs to be a historic thing
[19:30] <jussi> beuno: what do you mean by that?
[19:31] <beuno> jussi, "Member for 1 year 2 months, first joined on X date"
[19:31] <beuno> maybe
[19:32] <jussi> hrm. I still prefer listing in both sections - which is the same thing, but presented in a different way, no?
[19:32] <Renegade15> is that listing different from the current semantics?
[19:33] <jussi> Renegade15: hrm?
[19:33] <Renegade15> i.e. would that be 1 year 2 months since X, or since the most recent join?
[19:34] <jussi> Renegade15: for beuno's idea? neither. total time they were actually a member
[19:34] <beuno> yes, I'd cheat  :)
[19:34] <Renegade15> I'll bet money you'd get bug reports for that
[19:34] <jussi> hehe
[19:35] <Renegade15> because people would calculate from X to now, see it wouldn't match up with the sum, and complain
[19:36] <Renegade15> how about a listing "Member from 01.07.2007 - 04.03.2009, 11.10.10-now"?
[19:36] <jussi> You understood my proposal? listed in the previous members for the time they were a member previously, and the reason they were removed (deactivated, expired - same as is listed now). then they would also be in the current member section.
[19:37] <jussi> that tells the whole story in a clear way imho
[19:37] <Renegade15> jussi: That would make sense, but might also lead to bug reports re: double listing
[19:37] <Renegade15> end users can be difficult like that >_>
[19:38] <Renegade15> "CommanderFoo has rejoined the team, why is he still listed as historic?! He's current!"
[19:38] <jussi> hehe. but still, in any change you are going to have some sort of confusion
[19:38] <Renegade15> not trying to be difficult, just playing the devil's advocate
[19:38] <jussi> what we want is clear, but accurate.
[19:39] <Renegade15> how is the data saved at the moment?
[19:40] <Renegade15> join date + active member boolean?
[19:40] <jussi> Renegade15: no idea.
[19:40]  * jussi hasnt looked that deep into it
[19:40] <Renegade15> well, the convertibility of historic data would be an issue, too
[19:41] <jussi> yeah, this is true.
[19:41] <Renegade15> if the leave dates are missing (which could cause the current behavior), you can't magically add those afterwards
[19:42] <jussi> yes. I would be suprised if they were deleted though - they have been used before elsewhere.
[19:42] <jussi> so they probably dont get magically deleted from the db
[19:42] <jussi> ie. the person has been in the previous members list before.
[19:45] <Renegade15> maybe the most productive thing to do would be logging a change request in the tracker ^^
[19:45] <Renegade15> to get more points of view
[19:46] <jussi> Renegade15: likely. I will think on it a little more first. But yes, i do plan to report a bug.
[19:47] <Renegade15> or just do a ninja-edit on the code and blame someone else <_<
[19:48] <jussi> thankfully I have no coding ability and even less access to LP code :)
[19:49] <Renegade15> do you have a general grasp of LaunchPad's functionality?
[19:51] <jussi> Renegade15: I use it on a daily basis, so Id hope so.
[19:51] <Renegade15> okay, question: Is there a way to delete blueprints, and I'm just too blind to find it, or are they immortal objects?
[19:55] <jussi> Renegade15: not that I know of
[19:56] <Renegade15> hmm...I was afraid of that. Oh well, at least I didn't miss the obvious. ^^
[19:57] <jussi> can mark it a superseded though
[20:02] <Renegade15> any general gotchas you would want to warn people about?
[20:03] <jussi> dont join too many projects at once? :D
[20:04] <Renegade15> heh
[20:05] <Renegade15> any in terms of technical usage?
[20:06] <jussi> nothing. its pretty self explanatory
[21:26] <marw> hello. i already have an ssh key i use on gitorious. is is better to create a new one, or use this one on launchpad?


[00:04] <jthundley> does anyone else have a hauppauge PVR-150?
[00:04] <quinten> yes, i have one
[00:04] <jthundley> I dist-upgraded mythbuntu and my remote stopped working
[00:04] <jthundley> mind if I glom your config files?
[00:04] <quinten> ah, i do not have the remote
[00:04] <jthundley> doh!
[00:05] <jthundley> you got me all excited :p
[00:05] <quinten> it's not too hard to build the remote configs with irrec though
[00:05] <jthundley> yeah that's what I thought too, the mythcontrol tool isn't setting it up properly
[00:05] <quinten> i did that for my tivo remote
[00:07] <jthundley> even doing this doesn't seem to work: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/PVR150_Remote
[00:07] <Zinn> [www.mythtv.org] PVR150 Remote - MythTV
[00:08] <quinten> i would test irrecord to make sure your remote is spitting out data to the computer
[00:09] <quinten> it took me 10 minutes to do it for my tivo remote, which was a bit of a pain at first but also ended up with a better config than the default remote config
[00:10] <quinten> i also seem to remember that when i did my last upgrade, some of the files ended up pointing to the wrong place
[00:10] <quinten> check where .lirc.conf points--a few levels deep of includes
[00:10] <quinten> and make sure it's the right config file
[00:13] <jthundley> I just double checked the remote
[00:13] <jthundley> was able to cat /dev/lirc0
[00:13] <jthundley> and I looked at the remote with my nightvision scope, it's definitely working ;)
[00:18] <quinten> so, take a second to try one of the suggestions i have. i think there's a good chance your config is no longer pointing to the correct ircd.conf
[00:19] <jthundley> I'm looking into that as we speak
[00:19] <jthundley> thanks for the help btw, I really appreciate it
[00:20] <jthundley> yeah, lircd.conf points to a valid config
[00:20] <quinten> you're welcome, i remember this is a bit confusing
[00:20] <jthundley> include "/usr/share/lirc/remotes/hauppauge/lircd.conf.hauppauge"
[00:20] <jthundley> yeah, I ran a myth system before I started using mythbuntu, the remote was the part I dreaded the most
[00:20] <jthundley> which is why I love ubuntu, it got it all working pretty much out of the box for me
[00:21] <quinten> so on my system, in the home directory of user that mythfrontend runs as, i have .lircrc, which points to .lirc/mythtv
[00:21] <quinten> make sure that refers to the correct remote control
[00:23] <jthundley> mine's a bunch of include statements in ~/.lirc which are all valid
[00:25] <quinten> i mean check .lirc/mythtv to make sure it refers to the right remote
[00:29] <jthundley> I think it's the same, it's Happauge in both
[00:49] <piper69> anyone in the house
[00:56] <quinten> jthundley, have you made sure ircd is running then
[00:56] <jthundley> yeah it runs and it accepts clients from mythfrontend, mplayer, irexec
[01:04] <jthundley> I'm even running it in the foreground, not as a daemon
[01:14] <jthundley> I don't even get anything out of irw
[01:17] <jthundley> if I try to rmmod lirc_i2c it hangs
[01:19] <jthundley> I'm so lost
[01:19] <jthundley> I even purged lirc and reinstalled it
[01:20] <jthundley> got mythbuntu control center to set it back up again and ask me what type of remote, chose hauppauge TV card
[01:20] <jthundley> still nada
[04:17] <squish102> wish me luck. doing an upgrade from 9.04 to 10.04
[04:18] <squish102> i must say my future sex life my not exist if this doesn't work
[04:30] <jthundley> squish102: I broke my mythtv upgrading and still got laid today
[04:38] <squish102> haha
[05:04] <hobiga> jthundley: I fought with my hauppauge card ir remote for quite a while.  Turns out the reciever module was screwed.  I only found out cause I happen to have another one.  I think I discovered it using mode2.
[06:15] <mcl0vin> hobiga: which card please?
[06:16] <mcl0vin> hobiga: i have been trying to get my hauppage-HVR-1600 remote to work for the past week or so ....no luck so far :(
[12:00] <mik__> hi
[12:00] <mik__> I installed mythbuntu 10.04 distribution on my laptop dell D610
[12:00] <mik__> I installed driver for technotrend s2 s-3600
[12:01] <mik__> when hi try to scan channels i don't can do it
[12:01] <mik__> ... i receive error parsing parameters...
[12:02] <mik__> if i try whith scan command it work
[12:03] <mik__> i try to create channels.conf with scan command but ....don't wor
[12:03] <mik__> sorry for my bad english
[12:09] <mik__> can you help me?
[15:28] <hobiga>  mcl0vin: PVR 150 and 350.
[15:42] <mcl0vin> hobiga: nah i am using HVR-1600
[15:42] <mcl0vin> and can't get it to work in karmic at all
[15:50] <mcl0vin> hobiga: nah i am using HVR-1600
[15:50] <mcl0vin> and can't get it to work in karmic at all
[16:39] <hobiga> mcl0vin: you asked me what card I was using or had problems with....that was what I have.  Never used the HVR-1600
[20:42] <recsa> Hi
[20:42] <recsa> Jay2k1: solved my remote problem
[21:31] <recsa> does any1 know where to make my Mythbuntu use the HDMI output?
[21:33] <rhpot1991> recsa: what video chipset?
[21:33] <recsa> Nvidia
[21:34] <recsa> nForce 980a/780a SLI
[21:34] <rhpot1991> recsa: not sure about SLI support to be honest
[21:35] <rhpot1991> is the hdmi you are trying to use onboard or on a card?
[21:35] <recsa> onboard, no idea why it says that about SLI, this is definitively not an SLI system
[21:37] <rhpot1991> no other card in there?
[21:38] <recsa> nope
[21:38] <rhpot1991> some mobos can have both on them, my laptop has a 9400 and 9300 or something
[21:38] <rhpot1991> anyways, I'd reboot and check your bios
[21:38] <rhpot1991> make sure its enabled
[21:38] <rhpot1991> make sure you have the closed source nvidia drivers enabled, check in the restricted driver manager
[21:39] <rhpot1991> after you do those, if you boot up with just the hdmi cable plugged in, it should just work
[21:39] <recsa> it is, i can make it work from Nvidia driver settings
[21:39] <recsa> but makling it a second monitor
[21:39] <recsa> i want it to be the monitor for frontend output
[21:40] <recsa> mmm nvm im idiot
[21:40] <recsa> you are right
[21:40] <recsa> the key is to make it the only plugged cable
[21:40] <recsa> thx, and sorry for such and stupid question
[21:41] <rhpot1991> ya what happens is the nvidia drivers detect the monitors on start up
[21:44] <recsa> gonna check if it is also being used as audio output
[21:46] <rhpot1991> recsa: that may be a little more difficult
[21:49] <recsa> its a matter of myth config, bios config or linux config?
[21:51] <rhpot1991> some of each
[21:51] <rhpot1991> sometimes there is a bios setting which may affect it
[21:52] <rhpot1991> then you launch alsamixer, make sure all your S/PDIF outputs are enabled (you can come back later and toggle these till you figure out which one)
[21:52] <rhpot1991> then in your mythtvfrontend, settings>general> page 3 or 4 is sound
[21:52] <rhpot1991> if you change the inputs there, in theory one of them should have hdmi in the name
[21:53] <rhpot1991> all of that assumes your chipset is supported, so it depends on how new your hardware is
[21:54] <recsa> ouch
[21:54] <recsa> well, pattience4
[21:54] <recsa> thx, gonna play with it


[02:56] <cody-somerville> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/338425/
[02:56] <cody-somerville> fyi ^
[02:57] <Flannel> Yeah he hit up #u like 15 minutes ago
[02:59] <Flannel> sigh.
[02:59] <Flannel> Space Ghost seems to have discovered the bot
[03:04] <dtchen> slight issue in -devel
[03:05] <dtchen> (#ubuntu-devel)
[03:05] <Flannel> Mmmm, whos on the access list.
[03:05] <cody-somerville> issue resolved
[03:05] <Flannel> ah, n to the rescue!
[03:05] <dtchen> thanks
[03:38] <Flannel> Oh bugger, I had my ping turned off
[03:38] <cody-somerville> IkoniaISaSLUT just spammed #xubuntu
[03:39] <Madpilot> likewise #u
[03:39] <Madpilot> did a nickban
[03:40] <Madpilot> Flannel, looks like your ban from about 40min ago in #u was the same creature?
[03:40] <Madpilot> the tellas.gr IP
[03:41] <cody-somerville> Yes, same creature.
[04:00] <Flannel> Madpilot: Yeah
[04:19] <Flannel> sigh.
[04:42] <Flannel> asmodeus
[04:42] <Amaranth> Flannel: heh, that just banned all of the troublemakers
[04:42] <Flannel> Amaranth: They're all the same, and asmodeus
[04:43] <elky> eyes on mikhail in #u
[04:43] <Flannel> elky: Whys that?  Troublemaker elsewhere?
[04:44] <elky> see his entrance (as mikhail2)
 I am Mikhail Gorvachak
[04:44] <Flannel> elky: That was asmodeus renaming himself, I imagine to make it more difficult to kick/more collateral damage with a bad complete
[04:44] <Flannel> mikhail (1) is a different persn entirely, as far as I can tll
[04:44] <Madpilot> he's currently under Flannel's IP ban, so no worries
[04:45] <elky> aha, good spot
[04:50] <Flannel> SpaceGhostC2C: Howdy, How can we help you today?
[04:50] <SpaceGhostC2C> Hey, I wanted to know if there is a possibility to add a command to ubottu
[04:51] <Flannel> SpaceGhostC2C: Suggestions are always welcome, yes.
[04:51] <SpaceGhostC2C> How would I go about this?
[04:52] <Flannel> SpaceGhostC2C: /msg ubottu foo is bar
[04:53] <Madpilot> Flannel, that /remove I just administered in -ot has your favourite IP in it...
[04:53] <Flannel> Madpilot: Same ones, yeah.
[04:54] <Flannel> ubottu: tell fluffman about scope
[04:56] <Flannel> Ah, PM spam.
[04:57] <Madpilot> from your favourite IP?
[04:57] <Flannel> Madpilot: It wasn't my favorite IP until they showed up in #u half an hour ago, but yeah.
[04:58] <Madpilot> fun
[04:58] <SpaceGhostC2C> May I know what this IP is?
[04:58] <Amaranth> err
[04:58] <Flannel> SpaceGhostC2C: It's no big deal.  Is there anything else we can help you with today?
[04:59] <SpaceGhostC2C> Flannel, so I would just say !command is whatever?
[04:59] <SpaceGhostC2C> or just command is whatever?
[04:59] <Flannel> SpaceGhostC2C: Correct, a query or #ubuntu-bots is the best place
[05:00] <SpaceGhostC2C> May I make a test, to see how it works?
[05:00] <Flannel> SpaceGhostC2C: Sure
[05:04] <SpaceGhostC2C> thanks
[05:12] <Flannel> Oh fun.
[05:12] <Flannel> Apparently he's claiming to be me in #freenode and that I stole this nick from him
[05:13] <Madpilot> who?
[05:23] <Flannel> Madpilot: My most recent best friend
[05:23] <Madpilot> ah, the entertainment we volunteer for
[05:23] <Madpilot> :)
[05:23] <Flannel> He's currently "Flannel1" apparently
[05:23] <Flannel> ubottu: tell SpaceGhostC2C about scope
[05:25] <SpaceGhostC2C> Flannel, did I do something wrong?
[05:31] <SpaceGhostC2C> Sorry.
[05:33] <elky> i believe he was just letting you know the scope of factoids we exist
[05:33] <SpaceGhostC2C> Do you think that this factoid wouldn't be added?
[05:34] <elky> however, i'm pretty sure a factoid specifically intended to annoy the heck out of people falls outside that scope
[05:35] <SpaceGhostC2C> I can see that point of view and understand it. I personally think it would be fun, and could be used to diffuse tense situations.
[05:35] <SpaceGhostC2C> especially in #ubuntu-offtopic.
[05:36] <elky> annoying people isn't going to diffuse a situation in -offtopic.
[05:37] <SpaceGhostC2C> It's an opinion. I can see how you would arrive at that.
[05:38] <mneptok> cody-somerville: you might think about adding some more people from the ops team to the #x access list.
[05:40] <cody-somerville> mneptok, I'm happy to do so if someone can provide me with some names (or rather nicks) of ops who frequent #x
[05:41] <mneptok> cody-somerville: we get reports of abuse here. and end up watching in impotent dismay as no one can do anything.
[05:44] <cody-somerville> I thought with the UbuntuIrcCouncil nick being on the access list it would permit folks from the op team to op in #xubuntu
[05:44] <cody-somerville> Did I not add it right?
[05:44] <mneptok> no, just the Council people
[05:45] <mneptok> (jussi and Pici)
[05:46] <cody-somerville> mneptok, Would adding you to the access list be effective in helping alleviate the issue?
[05:47] <mneptok> cody-somerville: depends on time of day. i do sleep. ;)
[05:47] <cody-somerville> awkward.
[05:47]  * cody-somerville doesn't sleep.
[05:47] <mneptok> cody-somerville: i'd suggest bazhang, ikonia, Flannel, elky, and myself. that gets pretty decent coverage through most of the day.
[05:47] <cody-somerville> ok
[05:48] <mneptok> elky: i just voluntold you!
[05:49] <cody-somerville> Done.
[05:49] <mneptok> cody-somerville: it will really help when the *total* nutjobs go cycling through every *buntu channel
[05:49] <mneptok> cody-somerville: with a few more eyes on #x, we can stop things before they start.
[05:50] <mneptok> cody-somerville: be sure to scream here if you find any one of us invasive to the channel's smooth operation
[05:50] <cody-somerville> Sounds good.
[05:52] <cody-somerville> We are generally much more tolerant than #ubuntu since its since a smaller channel but of course have very little patience for folks like IkoniaISaSLUT
[05:52] <cody-somerville> oops, that second since should be a such <g>
[05:52] <mneptok> cody-somerville: since i don;t tend to idle in #x, i'm sure most of my involvement will be along the lines of the cavalry riding over the hill to save the village. not as town cop.
[05:53] <Madpilot> so you'll show up smelling like a horse and waving a curvy sword?
[05:57] <mneptok> don't i always?
[05:57] <mneptok> don't forget "bare-chested and well-oiled"
[05:58] <cody-somerville> Speaking on IkoniaISaSLUT, I set the following ban - is it doing what I want it to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:58] <elky> ikonia, ooh, you got upgraded from bitch?
[05:59] <mneptok> cody-somerville: might want to s/goliath/*goliath
[06:00] <cody-somerville> elky, Whoever the individual is behind the "Ikonia is a ..." campaign really didn't enjoy getting klined and so decided to take things to the next level unfortunately.
[06:00] <Madpilot> I just did IkoniaISaSLUT!*@* in #ubuntu, for now
[06:01] <Madpilot> no variations on the theme have emerged, so it worked that far
[06:01] <elky> cody-somerville, yeah, it's been going on for a few days now. it was bitch just last night.
[06:05] <Flannel> Mmmm, looks like I just got volunteered.
[06:05] <Flannel> Well, cody-somerville, I'm happy to help!
[06:17] <Madpilot> updated the /topic in #ubuntu to note that yes, ubuntuforums are apparently down.
[06:18] <Flannel> #ubuntuforums!
[06:20] <Madpilot> hmm?
[06:56] <vimpulse> Flannel:  hello
[06:56] <Flannel> vimpulse: Howdy
[06:56] <Flannel> vimpulse: That's 100% totally absolutely incorrect and inappropriate.
[06:56] <vimpulse> Flannel:  if I may ask -- why?
[06:57] <Flannel> vimpulse: For the record, you were suggesting that someone was being rude in asking for help because their problem wasn't big enough, yes?
[06:57] <vimpulse> Flannel:  yes.  It seems to me that the asker's mouse pointer was disappearing for a few seconds, probably no more than once an hour.
[06:58] <vimpulse> Flannel:  or maybe not actually disappearing, but instead changing from being an arrow to a spinner
[06:58] <Flannel> vimpulse: Who are you to judge what problem is "significant" enough to be asked?  Moreso, who are you to berate someone for asking a question?
[07:01] <vimpulse> Flannel:  I see your side.  But I am still not 100% convinced that you are right.  :)
[07:01] <vimpulse> dear everyone else -- opinions?
[07:01] <Flannel> vimpulse: I'm 100% sure that I'm right.
[07:02] <vimpulse> Flannel:  of course -- otherwise you wouldn't've said it.  But *I* am not 100% sure that you are right.  :)
[07:02] <Flannel> vimpulse: And the fact that you're even considering the opposite side of this concerns me.
[07:02] <elky> vimpulse, haranging people for seeking support is not permitted within any of our channels
[07:03] <vimpulse> is there no such thing as a support question too small to be worth asking supporters to spend their time on?
[07:03] <elky> vimpulse, no.
[07:03] <Flannel> elky means yes, there is no such thing as a question too small.
[07:04] <Madpilot> a small question might well have a small quick fix, and viola, one less irritated Ubuntu user
[07:04] <vimpulse> elky:  interesting.  I think there are channels with different philosophies.  For example, I think #centos.  But if the #ubuntu philosophy is that there is no too-small question, I will respect that when in #ubuntu.
[07:04] <cody-somerville> :)
[07:05] <elky> vimpulse, that's all we ask.
[07:05] <vimpulse> Note:  Even though I will respect the philosophy, I still think you should change it.  For example, look at Delta__'s problem.
[07:06] <elky> if you could take a look at the guidelines linked in the #ubuntu topic, then we will be sure we're on the right page in terms of behaviour in general
[07:06] <Flannel> vimpulse: I'm looking at it.  I don't see anything wrong with it.  I am totally sickened by the way you treated him though.
[07:08] <vimpulse> Flannel:  Delta__ is annoyed that Alsa is using 7-10% of CPU, I think when s/he's using a custom libao application.  Delta__ wants Folding@Home to run faster, so wants to reduce the CPU that Alsa uses.  But are there not more important support questions to be dealt with?
[07:09] <elky> vimpulse, importance is not for you to decide.
[07:09] <Flannel> vimpulse: Again, you're rating importance.  Stop it.
[07:09] <elky> vimpulse, if you dont want to answer it, dont answer it. fine by us
[07:09] <elky> but to scold someone for asking is beyond rude.
[07:10] <vimpulse> elky:  Flannel:  as you are ops, I plan to respect your guidelines about importance.  But my point is I think that maybe you should change your channel guidelines a little closer to no-spoonfeeding.
[07:10] <elky> vimpulse, we will do no such thing.
[07:10] <maco> that's not how this community works :)
[07:10] <maco> we like new users, you see
[07:10] <Madpilot> so who gets to define "spoonfeeding', vimpulse? You?
[07:11] <Flannel> vimpulse: How does "how do I make alsa use less CPU" equal spoonfeeding?
[07:11] <vimpulse> elky:  I read the guidelines on the wiki now.
[07:11] <vimpulse> Madpilot:  Flannel:  spoonfeeding was the wrong word here.
[07:11] <Flannel> vimpulse: You're saying we shouldn't be helpful.
[07:12] <cody-somerville> vimpulse, You're welcome to answer only the questions you want. However, there are others who might want to provide support for the questions you're not interested in answering which is cool too. However, if you tell users that their questions are illegitimate then you're not giving a chance to the other folks who want to help out have a chance to do so.
[07:12] <Flannel> vimpulse: This community does not RTFM.  "I know more than you, I can figure it out, why can't you?" is also the wrong stance to take.
[07:12] <maco> cody-somerville++
[07:12] <vimpulse> Flannel:  no.  There are two things.  One is reduction of spoonfeeding.  That means that questions which are easily answered by Googling shouldn't be answered in-channel.  #centos is big on non-spoonfeeding.
[07:12] <Flannel> vimpulse: #ubuntu is not #centos
[07:12] <vimpulse> Flannel:  I know
[07:13] <Flannel> vimpulse: Then stop trying to tell us we need to become #centos
[07:13] <Madpilot> vimpulse, "JFGI" and "RTFM" are not, ever, permitted on #ubuntu
[07:13] <maco> we have a factoid for that
[07:13] <vimpulse> Flannel:  I am saying there are things you can learn from #centos.  If people insist on spoonfeeding, maybe a better thing to do is to point people to the right Google search terms to use.
[07:13] <maco> !jfgi
[07:14] <Flannel> vimpulse: No one's insisting on spoonfeeding.  Perhaps it's time you move along from #ubuntu and stick to #centos
[07:14] <vimpulse> cody-somerville:  good point, and good explanation of why rating questions is bad.
[07:14] <vimpulse> Flannel:  maybe so :)
[07:14] <Madpilot> vimpulse, again, you are using a definition of "spoonfeeding" that has no place in #ubuntu.
[07:14] <maco> pointing someone to a specific webpage detailing an answer is certainly fine, but "google" is not a specific webpage
[07:15] <maco> basically, the concept of spoonfeeding doesnt exist in ubuntu. it's simply "helping"
[07:16] <vimpulse> maco:  I said "point people to the right Google search terms to use".  Often, when I do that, I google it myself first.  I check that the terms are the best terms to use.  Then I point a user to try the search.  If they tell me they can't find their answer, then I give them a clearer answer.
[07:18] <maco> why not just give them the page they need?
[07:18] <vimpulse> maco:  I find that it is sometimes useful to try to teach people how to find info by themselves.
[07:18] <maco> not everyone wants to learn that lesson. and that's ok.
[07:18] <maco> we're not all researchers
[07:18] <cody-somerville> vimpulse, Thats an admirable endeavor but unfortunately not the purpose of the #ubuntu channel.
[07:18] <elky> vimpulse, if you really desperately want #ubuntu to be like #centos, then by all means approach our Community Council and insist they set a "no spoonfeeding" rule. Only then will we bend to that demand. Until such a time, you will cease to insult people for the questions they ask in #ubuntu. You will not respond to questions you do not like. You will respect the guidelines of that channel just like everyone else
[07:18] <vimpulse> elky:  I already agreed to do that.
[07:19] <elky> then why are we still having a discussion here about question worthiness and how they ought t be responded to?
[07:19] <cody-somerville> Apologizes elky, my fault
[07:19] <vimpulse> elky:  because now I am trying to convince you to change your guidelines :)
[07:19] <elky> vimpulse, and i've told you how to do that.
[07:19] <elky> vimpulse, read what i actually wrote please.
[07:20] <vimpulse> elky:  do you mean "... approach our Community Council ..."?
[07:20] <cody-somerville> vimpulse, Its not a guideline, its a fundamental difference in our community :)
[07:20] <maco> and then i would definitely not consider #ubuntu a place that i'd want to send my mum for help
[07:20] <elky> vimpulse, i do indeed mean that.
[07:20] <maco> vimpulse: the Ubuntu Community Council
[07:21] <maco> elky: i think a "what" was missing in vimpulse's sentence
[07:21] <vimpulse> maco:  it wasn't.
[07:21] <maco> oh ok
[07:21] <maco> sorry :)
[07:21] <vimpulse> maco:  :)
[07:21] <vimpulse> maco:  if your mum learns to Google for, say, error message text, and someone on IRC teaches her to do so, then she *will* end up better off.  :)
[07:21] <maco> my mum shouldnt need to learn about error messages
[07:21] <maco> and so far, thankfully, has not :D
[07:21] <elky> vimpulse, stop it. you've been told to move on.
[07:22] <vimpulse> ok.
[07:22] <elky> this is a circular argument that is taking up the time of numerous operators. if you want to change how the ubuntu community works, speak to the Community Council.
[07:22] <elky> I'll have my popcorn ready for that discussion.
[07:22] <maco> me too
[07:23] <Madpilot> yeah, I'd show up for that CC meeting, even if it was at 0500 local time
[07:24] <jussi01> Guys, the sarcasm really isnt needed. lets help vimpulse to get where he needs to get and leave it there.
[07:24] <Flannel> Madpilot: I got approved by getting up at 5am local time.
[07:24] <Madpilot> Flannel, 0600 for me, actually. I got to sleep an hour later!
[07:25] <jussi01> vimpulse: is there anything else we can help you with?
[07:26] <vimpulse> jussi01:  nah, thanks.
[07:27] <Flannel> Hmm, IRC Guidelines could use with a reordering actually.
[07:27] <jussi01> Peoples, this isnt your person chat room, its a place for dealing with people who have an issues in ubuntu channels, as well as administrative issues.
[07:27] <elky> Flannel, it could do with better presentation, definitely
[07:27] <jussi01> Flannel: they need a re-write, its something the new ircc has on its agena
[07:27] <Flannel> Some of the important ones are near the bottom, while some of them that aren't generally applicable are near the top, etc.
[07:27] <elky> i, however, lack the necessary wikifu :(
[07:28] <Flannel> jussi01: I'm not talking about a rewrite, just re-ordering of what's on there so some of the more important ones are more likely to be read (specifically in this case: when helpig, be helpful)
[07:28] <jussi01> Flannel: Im just saying the re-ordering could be don when the rewrite is done :)
[07:29] <Flannel> I'm going to refrain from making a comment about the IRCC rewriting it.  But I don't think there's much point in waiting for a month or two for that process to complete.
[07:29] <elky> jussi01, one would require input/approval. one just moves stuff around. i dont see a convincing arg /against/ a shuffle now
[07:36] <MenZa> Oho. Hadn't rejoined since my netsplit.
[07:39] <elky> Flannel, still watching him?
[07:40] <Flannel> elky: I tabbed away about six minutes ago, but yeah, he's getting a lastlog regularly for the next few days
[07:42] <Flannel> meh.  Is today "everybody just discovered factoids" day?
[07:43] <Madpilot> mr vimpulse seems to have just discovered the !anyone factiod... :)
[07:44] <Flannel> 'dont work' would've been more appropriate in that instance anyway
[07:44] <Flannel> doesnt, even.
[07:48] <Flannel> Alright, I can't deal with him currently, as I'm starting to make it personal.  I'll be back in a bit.
[08:14]  * MenZa huggles Flannel
[08:32] <dholbach> good morning
[08:58] <ikonia> sorry about the flooding guys - freenode k-lined the guy and he's not happy about it.
[08:58] <jussi01> ikonia: ?
[08:59] <ikonia> last ikonia in #ubuntu #xubuntu #fedora #kubuntu
[08:59] <ikonia> oh and #freenode
[09:00] <jussi01> oh, you got a fan. :) dont apologise on his behalf, not your fault
[09:00] <ikonia> still bad form for multiple channels to get hit like that
[09:38] <tsimpson> busy night ey
[09:39] <jussi01> hello tsimpson
[09:39] <tsimpson> \o hello
[09:55] <ardchoille> There's a user in #ubuntu that needs to change his/her nick (jizzinmypants) due to keeping the channel family friendly
[09:56] <ardchoille> My 8 year old neice doesn't need to see that
[10:15] <jizzinmypants> lol xd sry
[10:15] <jizzinmypants> but this is just the name of a song it's not that bad... but anyway i'll change it hehe
[10:16] <jussi01> jizzinmypants: thanks
[10:16] <jizzinmypants> np ;)
[10:16] <obiwan_> ok now hehe
[10:16] <jussi01> excellent :)
[10:17] <jussi01> obiwan_: thanks for your co-operation, we do appreciate it :)
[10:18] <obiwan_> this is my real nickname , i just use the other because if autoconnecting my client uses the obiwan nickname, and i like to avoid some people, so i enter with that nick, and if they aren't i use the real one. The problem is that if i'm out, whenever my conn drops it gets back the ji.... nick hehe
[10:19] <obiwan_> anyway, i don't know why i'm in ubuntu-ops chan :P is this a operators channel? i'm not op
[10:19] <ardchoille> Another questionable nick - CaptainPissWeak in #ubuntu
[10:23] <jussi01> obiwan_: you didnt join explicitly?
[10:24] <obiwan_> i don't think so, why would i have done so?
[10:24] <Flannel> obiwan_: You were forwarded here because of your inappropriate nick
[10:25] <obiwan_> hehe ok makes sense :)
[10:25] <jussi01> obiwan_: all sorted now, thanks for your understanding
[10:25] <Tm_T> also his "realname" is interesting
[10:26] <jussi01> obiwan_: oh, could you please fix the realname also, thanks :)
[10:26] <Tm_T> realname or ircname
[10:26] <obiwan_> which one?
[10:27] <Tm_T> obiwan_: whatever says "notchafuknbizzmodofok4" or similar (:
[10:27] <obiwan_> sry i've got many ones
[10:27] <obiwan_> actually i don't know what the realname is, the ident? or my name?
[10:29] <Tm_T> obiwan_: realname is same as ircname, that's what you provide along your nick, it's typically your real name but doesn't have to be
[10:30] <obiwan_> this all comes because of irssi can't handle with one ident/nick for each server, i just can have one for all networks and i don't like they see my real one in some ones
[10:30] <Tm_T> obiwan_: so set something like "noname" or similar then (:
[10:31] <obiwan_> hmm i see, but that just appears with whois right? i don't like whoisers that's why i set it, nobody will read it unless they whois me right?
[10:32] <Tm_T> obiwan_: or other methods, yes
[10:32] <Tm_T> obiwan_: I see it when you join
[10:32] <tsimpson> some clients automatically use /who on a channel to show "realnames" along with nicks
[10:33] <obiwan_> what i can change is the ident (ident@host), does'nt sound good and everybody sees it when connecting
[10:33] <jussi01> my client shows it on a simple mouseover
[10:33] <obiwan_> hm i didn't know about whoing chanels i'll try hehe
[10:34] <tsimpson> do it on a small channel, like this one
[10:34] <tsimpson> /who #ubuntu-ops
[10:34] <obiwan_> nice didn't kow about that :)
[10:35] <obiwan_> ok i'll change it
[10:35] <jussi01> :)
[10:36] <tonyyarusso> I take it that iptables command basically just shuts down networking?
[10:36] <ikonia> blocks everything
[10:36] <ikonia> (pretty much)
[10:37] <jussi01> probably shoudl have used !danger, but yea
[10:37] <obiwan_> lol this is good
[10:37] <obiwan_> i set mytfbwy
[10:38] <obiwan_> it supposed to be may the force be with you, but when thinking twice it's also may the f*** be with you, which sounds good for me, but nobody else knows :)
[10:39] <ikonia> please don't star out swear words
[10:40] <obiwan_> why? there may be children here that way they don't understand
[10:40] <tsimpson> if you have to disguise it, you probably shouldn't say it anyway
[10:44] <obiwan_> yeah, but anway everyone will understand force not the other, so the other meaning is reserved just for skiddies hehe
[10:44] <obiwan_> ok, i need to restart for changes taking place brb!
[10:45] <jizzinmypants> it didn't work :/
[10:45] <jizzinmypants> brb
[10:50] <ardchoille> this is the second time jizzinmypants has entered #ubuntu with that nick after being banned for it
[10:50] <ardchoille> Looks like he's pushing the envelope
[10:50] <tsimpson> that's for staying so we can explain
[10:51] <Tm_T> and why ardchoille doesn't use !ops if needed?
[10:52] <MenZa> Am I the only one who doesn't like DrManhattan's attitude in -ot?
[10:52] <obiwan_> yeah in the end eheh
[10:52] <MenZa> tsimpson: I'll let him know in a pm
[10:52] <obiwan_> what is ot? i think it's a tv series
[10:52] <tsimpson> MenZa: he was banned from #u for bad language, and doesn't want to discuss it with us
[10:52] <MenZa> tsimpson: Aye, I know
[10:53] <tsimpson> obiwan_: "ot" refers to #ubuntu-offtopic
[10:53] <obiwan_> hheh ok :P
[10:53] <MenZa> obiwan_: Have you fixed your issue yet?
[10:53] <obiwan_> yeahh
[10:53] <obiwan_> whois me :P
[10:54] <jussi01> obiwan_: excellent, please check our topic then :)
[10:54] <Tm_T> obiwan_: does your nick stick now too?
[10:54] <tsimpson> so you won't be that nick when you reconnect?
[10:54] <obiwan_> hmm yeah i think it still will be w8 hehe i'll try to change that too
[10:55] <jussi01> is it not with irssi that you cant change the config while connected/open?
[10:56] <Flannel> jussi01: You can with irssi
[10:56] <jussi01> ok, :)
[10:57] <MenZa> obiwan_: You might want to read /help network. Re-add freenode with -nick obiwan_ to keep it like that.
[10:58] <obiwan_> yeah but obiwan is registered and i don't want to set my pass in the computer just in case somebody stoles it
[10:58] <obiwan_> ok it's now changed
[10:58] <obiwan_> let me try
[10:58] <obiwan_> brb
[10:58] <obiwan_> please if i come back with the bad nick don't ban me i'm really trying to solve it
[10:58] <ikonia> unacceptable
[10:58] <ikonia> he shouldn't come back with a bad nick
[10:59] <Flannel> Tm_T: Because it's not a pressing issue, so there's no real need for the call.
[10:59] <shellfish> greattt it worked now heheh
[10:59] <Tm_T> Flannel: but he does it even when it's urgent at times
[10:59] <MenZa> shellfish: excellent!
[10:59] <Flannel> Tm_T: Ah, I hadn't noticed
[11:00] <Tm_T> Flannel: and never stay in channel enough so we can reply in _any_ way
[11:00] <shellfish> thxxx menz :)
[11:00] <Tm_T> that doesn't mean I didn't appreciate his doings, I do
[11:01] <MenZa> to be fair, ardchoille is only doing what the topic tells him to do.
[11:02] <tsimpson> shellfish: thanks, you can leave here now :)
[11:03] <shellfish> ok tsimpson :) many thanks everybody for the support and evrything
[11:05] <Tm_T> MenZa: I cannot read topic in way that it says "don't wait for reply"
[11:06] <MenZa> "Please do not idle here".
[11:06] <Tm_T> MenZa: waiting for answer or simple comment for even one minute is not idling (:
[11:06] <MenZa> Well, no.
[11:06] <MenZa> But it could be interpreted like that.
[11:06] <Tm_T> perhaps
[11:07] <Tm_T> that means our topic is not clear enough, I suppose
[11:07] <Flannel> His answer ends up generally being the [trouble] [being taken care of]
[11:08] <Tm_T> I would be more happy with that than flyby (:
[11:08] <Tm_T> but that's me, I like to be able comment if needed
[11:12] <jussi01> shellfish: anything else you need from us?
[11:13] <shellfish> nope sry i forgot to part
[11:13] <shellfish> have a nice day :)
[11:13] <shellfish> byee and may the force be with you
[11:25] <bazhang> drmanhattan seems to be treading a fine line here
[11:26] <MenZa> I'm tempted to forward him here to have a good chat with him.
[11:27] <tsimpson> if he continues despite warnings, forward
[11:28] <DrManhattan> XD
[11:28] <tsimpson> hello DrManhattan
[11:29] <tsimpson> you seem to want to discuss the Ubuntu operators, this is the place to do it
[11:29] <MenZa> DrManhattan: It seems to me that your approach, currently, is "Disregard #ubuntu rules, come complain in #ubuntu-offtopic, and talk down to the operators" -- could you confirm that?
[11:29] <DrManhattan> Nah.
[11:29] <MenZa> Alright then.
[11:31] <tsimpson> I suggest changing the mute to a ban in #u
[11:31] <bazhang> okay
[11:31] <MenZa> Changed to a regular ban
[11:31] <MenZa> Also, +1'ed, tsimpson
[11:31] <bazhang> done
[11:31] <tsimpson> there's still<EMAIL_ADDRESS>set
[11:32] <ikonia> no chance of getting him back in here to resolve it ?
[11:32] <tsimpson> ikonia: he has been asked on several occasions to come here to talk about it, he refuses
[11:32] <Tm_T> banforward or ban then
[11:33] <bazhang> tsimpson, removed the mute, changed to ban in #ubuntu
[11:33] <MenZa> I forced him in here this time, nothing. So now I'm just flat-out banning him.
[11:33] <jussi01> Id say keep the banforward on, maybe he will then be prompted to takk about it and maybe we can get to a resolution
[11:33] <MenZa> Access to the channels are a privilege, not a right, and if you don't feel like making an effort when you've already violated the channel rules /several/ times, I don't see why you belong there.
[11:33] <jussi01> in as much as his state of mind may change at a different time of day
[11:34] <jussi01> ie. a banforward here
[11:34] <MenZa> Well, it hasn't changed in the past 2--3 days.
[11:34] <MenZa> I don't flat-out reject the idea of a banforward, but he knows the channel exists now.
[11:34] <MenZa> At least a regular ban gives him the choice if he wants to discuss it or not.
[11:35] <bazhang> ah nice. /notice'ing me in other channels
[11:35] <MenZa> cute. anything exciting?
[11:35] <bazhang> XD
[11:37] <MenZa> Er, Mendocino @ #ubuntu?
[11:38] <bazhang> looks like ongazevakir
[11:39] <bazhang> yep
[11:39] <MenZa> well, he certainly seems to know you :p
[11:39] <bazhang> many PMs after a number of mutes
[11:39] <MenZa> oh?
[11:42] <MenZa> \o/
[11:43] <MenZa> Ah, he's messaging me. Lovely.
[11:43] <MenZa> [2009-12-10 11:40:15 UTC]  <Mendocino> hello. wtfm have you got any problemz?
[11:43] <MenZa> [2009-12-10 11:43:10 UTC]  <Mendocino> ???
[11:44] <MenZa> bazhang: Why mute? o_O
[11:45] <bazhang> MenZa, try to catalyze him; it has worked for stretches before
[11:45] <MenZa> aha
[11:45] <bazhang> have in PM already
[11:47] <MenZa> excellent
[13:24] <ikonia> gone
[13:24] <ikonia> he's known
[13:24] <ikonia> watching in #x
[13:42] <ikonia> still being very offensive in pm to me, talking about taking revenge on ubuntu users and pegnuine fuckers
[13:43]  * jussi01 hugs ikonia
[13:44] <ikonia> doesn't bother me
[13:44] <ikonia> just for the record really
[13:45] <Pici> oh dear
[13:46] <ikonia> watching him in #xubuntu
[15:00] <Pici> jussi01: http://paste.ubuntu.com/338705/
[15:02] <ikonia> Pici: that looks cool
[15:05] <jussi01> Pici: how does it know its you (or me)?
[15:06] <Pici> jussi01: launchpadlib will prompt you the first time you use it to login to lp and give authorization to that application to work on your behalf.  https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib#Getting%20started explains what shows up
[15:07] <jussi01> Pici: where is the current version of this script ?
[15:08] <Pici> If someone else uses the program they'll just get some unhandled exception that they weren't able to add the person to the team.
[15:08] <Pici> jussi01: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~bnrubin/+junk/lpteam
[15:09] <topyli> btw, there's a great opportunity to cheer for topyli for irc council now, on the wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JuhaSiltala
[15:09] <topyli> sorry for spamming
[15:09]  * ikonia admires Pici's honesty of unhandled execption
[15:10] <jussi01> /arn topyli don't spam you! :P :P
[15:11] <topyli> jussi01, too late, it's done :)
[15:11] <jussi01> :D
[15:11] <Pici> ikonia: I honestly haven't tested it.
[15:12] <ikonia> Pici: nice to see honesty
[15:12] <Pici> jussi01: if you use it, let it 'change non-private data' when lp asks.
[15:12] <ikonia> Pici: would you like me to run it to get some data for you ?
[15:13] <Pici> ikonia: nah, its okay.
[15:13] <ikonia> no problem
[15:17] <Pici> ikonia: Actually, it looks like it'll throw an HTTPError, which I am handling.
[15:17] <ikonia> ahhh modesty then
[17:51] <Pici> !ping
[17:58] <MenZa> Er.
[17:58] <MenZa> "This is the Official blackhole of Ubuntu chatter" - #ubuntuforums topic
[17:58] <MenZa> o_o
[17:59] <Pici> Thats been there forever.
[17:59] <MenZa> :[
[18:00] <jpds> Argh.
[18:00] <jpds> Seriously.
[18:00] <Pici> agreed.
[18:01] <Pici> now hes messaging the floodbot.
[18:02] <jpds> Haha.
[19:00] <genii_> Heads up for tsimpson , jussi01 , other #k ops... Have to take cornwall down for 15-20 minutes, we're shuffling stuff around here right now. One of the floodbots in #k is gonna go down for a bit
[19:00] <Pici> Thanks for the heads up
[19:01] <genii_> OK, I'm out for now
[19:13] <tsimpson> the bots should cope with just 2 of them
[19:14] <maco> does someone wanna have a word with gOLDfeesh?
 maco no, people need to learn that not everything is "fix it for me" and that they have quick help links that they can follow
[19:15] <maco> when i told them they didnt need to use bot factoids after i'd already given answers
[19:56] <IdleOne> mikelevel auto responds in spanish to any writing in caps. nothing vulgar but still can be annoying
[20:01] <ikonia> Hmm looks like someones being naughty setting up #ubuntu-es-es to try to compete with #ubuntu-es
[20:02] <tsimpson> that was registered nearly 3 years ago apparently
[20:02] <ikonia> not checked but it seems odd
[20:04] <tsimpson> it also has a mailing list @lists.ubuntu.com, odd indeed
[21:55] <Amaranth> !mintsupport
[21:57] <Amaranth> !-mintsupport
[21:57] <Amaranth> !no mintsupport is <reply>Linux Mint is not a supported derivative of Ubuntu, please seek support in #linuxmint-help on irc.spotchat.org
[21:57] <Amaranth> gah
[21:57] <Amaranth> @login
[21:58] <Amaranth> !no mintsupport is <reply>Linux Mint is not a supported derivative of Ubuntu, please seek support in #linuxmint-help on irc.spotchat.org
[21:58]  * genii hands Amaranth a strong mug of coffee
[21:58] <maco> !mintsupport
[21:58] <maco> didnt work
[22:00] <genii> !mintsupport
[22:33] <MenZa> !mint
[22:33] <MenZa> hm


[01:51] <jjesse> yay my 5 a day is done today :)
[01:51] <jjesse> wahooo
[01:54] <jjesse> does that mean i get to go to bed now ?
[04:05] <techno_freak> hi
[04:10] <greg-g> ahhh, that felt good, marked a bunch of old incomplete bugs invalid
[04:23] <techno_freak> ah that reminds me to check some bugs which I had marked to be checked later..
[08:08] <secretlondon> too much bug mail..
[08:09] <secretlondon> no hug day today btw?
[08:37]  * techno_freak wakes up
[08:37] <techno_freak> seb128, heya!
[08:37] <techno_freak> secretlondon, heya!
[08:37] <secretlondon> hi techno_freak!
[12:12] <Iulian> Hey
[12:19] <techno_freak> heya
[12:23] <pedro_> hello Iulian
[12:33] <Iulian> Hi there pedro_!
[12:33] <Iulian> How are you?
[12:34] <pedro_> I'm good thanks, how about you?
[12:36] <Iulian> pedro_: Here too, doing well :)
[13:31] <bddebian> Boo
[14:01] <secretlondon> hi bbdebian
[14:02] <secretlondon> ni hug day today?
[14:02] <secretlondon> no
[15:18] <bdmurray> secretlondon: I thought we'd look at yesterday's bugs and try to drive that to 0
[15:19] <secretlondon> bdmurray: ok :)
[15:19] <bdmurray> but no, I didn't send out an announcement
[15:20] <secretlondon> yesterday's bugs = yesterday's bugs that are @new
[15:20] <secretlondon> the bottom 8 are old bugs
[15:22] <bdmurray> It looks not a the "first reported on" date but on Filed when bit for a task.  So looking at 105545 the linux-source-2.6.22 task was opened ~21 hours ago.
[15:25] <bdmurray> ogasawara: alsa drivers are in l-u-m now right?
[15:27] <ogasawara> bdmurray: I think so
[15:29] <qense> hello
[15:30] <secretlondon> hi
[15:52] <QbixAway> Can somebody tell me how bug contact works? I'm listed as bug contact for dosbox, but I can't change imporantance in launchpad. (for a bug against dosbox)
[15:53] <bdmurray> QbixAway: setting importance is restricted to the ubuntu bugcontrol team.  Are you a member of any Ubuntu teams?
[15:54] <blue-frog> Hi, would like to fill in a bug report (if it's one) but am at a loss as under what name/package I should do that. When copying data to/from USB HDD and my laptop HDD, the system basically comes to a halt and nothing else than copying can occur. to/from laptop HDD is a bit better but still the system is slowed down a lot.
[15:54] <QbixAway> nope. just bug contact. according to the text that appears when hovering
[15:54] <QbixAway> (only changable by project... and bug contact)
[15:55] <bdmurray> QbixAway: that message may be wrong.  Is this a dosbox (ubuntu) bug or a dosbox project bug?
[15:56] <QbixAway> the first https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dosbox/+bug/74719
[15:56] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 74719 in dosbox "Mouse frozen in lower right corner in edgy version of dosbox" [Undecided,Incomplete]
[15:56] <QbixAway> according to https://bugs.launchpad.net/~spiru/+packagebugs I'm a bug contact
[15:58] <QbixAway> so is this just a wrong help text ? or is something else wrong ?
[15:58] <bdmurray> Right, I understand but I think Launchpad's message about who can set importance for the bug is wrong.  I don't think bug contacts can set the importance yet, however in the future package maintainers are supposed to be able to set the importance.
[15:59] <QbixAway> should I file a bug against launchpad then ?
[16:00] <bdmurray> I think that might be useful.  You'd want to file it at https://bugs.launchpad.net/malone/+filebug .
[16:00] <bdmurray> Do you want the importance of that particular bug set?
[16:00] <QbixAway> well not sure. as I don't know to what I can set it.
[16:02] <bdmurray> There is some information about importances at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance
[16:03] <bdmurray> blue-frog: that would be a bug about the kernel so the package is dependent on the release of Ubuntu you are running
[16:11] <QbixAway> bdmurray low would fit it as it is (probably) related to dual screen setups only with (according to me) a broken Xorg.conf (if the Xorg.conf is generated by ubuntu stuff then it might be worse)
[16:11] <QbixAway> but leaving it undecided is fine as well
[16:13] <bdmurray> I still have it open so will set it for you.  If not being able to set importance becomes problematic for you please let me know.
[16:14] <bdmurray> I see there is only 1 bug about dosbox at the moment though. ;)
[16:14] <QbixAway> yeah a total of 16
[16:14] <QbixAway> so it's doing allright ;)
[16:16] <QbixAway> there were 3 closed in the last days. but there things weren't done by me.
[16:52] <blue-frog_> Hi, would like to fill in a bug report (if it's one) but am at a loss as under what name/package I should do that. When copying data to/from USB HDD and my laptop HDD, the system basically comes to a halt and nothing else than copying can occur. to/from laptop HDD is a bit better but still the system is slowed down a lot.
[16:52] <bdmurray> blue-frog: that would be a bug about the kernel so the package is dependent on the release of Ubuntu you are running
[16:53] <blue-frog_> bdmurray: ty
[16:53] <bdmurray> blue-frog_: additionally https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeamBugPolicies has information about filing kernel bug reports
[16:53] <blue-frog_> ok
[17:30] <secretlondon> more kernel bugs :)
[17:42] <qense> Better one kernel bug in Malone, than ten unknown. ;)
[17:55] <secretlondon> now totem and rhythmbox
[18:43] <qense> Are there specific files important to include/commands output to ask for when gnome-panel crashes?
[18:43] <james_w> qense: ~/.xsession-errors can be important.
[18:43] <seb128> qense: use apport to send crashers
[18:44] <seb128> qense: otherwise they are useless and will be closed
[18:44] <qense> I'm asking the reporter of bug 201062 for information
[18:44] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 201062 in gnome-panel "gnome-panel disappears sometimes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201062
[18:44] <qense> is there a way to let him use apport if those panels disappear regulary?
[18:45] <seb128> close it using the stock reply asking to use apport
[18:45] <seb128> if it crashes it should have a .crash in /var/crash
[18:45] <seb128> the stock replies says that
[18:46] <qense> I should use this reply? Missing a crash report or having a .crash attachment
[18:47] <qense> isn't there a way to report a bug from a .crash file with apport under gnome too?
[18:47] <mohbana> is icedtea plugin fixed?
[18:47] <qense> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#head-20ebac8207b4398d32f955193ac904e3c4228dea)
[18:47] <seb128> qense: the first way described is under GNOME
[18:48] <qense> ok
[18:48] <seb128> go to /var/crash using nautilus and click on the crash
[18:48] <qense> :)
[18:48] <qense> thx
[18:48] <seb128> you are welcome
[18:48] <seb128> thanks for triaging ;-)
[18:52] <james_w> could someone confirm that I'm not being silly in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/samba/+bug/201059 please?
[18:52] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 201059 in samba "conffile prompt on latest upgrade in hardy" [Undecided,New]
[18:52] <james_w> I'm the original reporter.
[18:53] <seb128> james_w: I didn't update yet today but I'll let you know if I get that too
[18:54] <james_w> seb128: I mean that getting a prompt for an unmodified file is a bug.
[18:54] <seb128> it is
[18:54] <seb128> if the file is really unmodified ;-)
[18:54] <Laney> james_w: Confirmed
[18:55] <james_w> yeah, I don't like disagreeing with people if I'm not positive that I'm right.
[18:55] <bdmurray> james_w: what does the diff of the two files return?
[18:55] <Laney> bdmurray: It showed some changed comments
[18:55] <Laney> (afaik)
[18:55] <james_w> There's a few changed lines, some comments, some settings.
[18:55] <seb128> james_w: maybe ping slangasek on #ubuntu-devel about it
[18:55] <james_w> but I don't have the base revision to compare with that.
[18:55] <seb128> he's one of the samba maintainers
[18:55] <bdmurray> I seem to recall that happening also.
[18:56] <james_w> seb128: I could do. I saw that bubulle said that he broke something with the new upload, so he may be on top of it.
[18:57] <james_w> I want to do it again, as the diff in the update-manager popup was *horrible* I think. It may be something to do with ucf rather than dpkg prompts.
[18:57] <james_w> It looked like a side by side diff with variable whitespace separating the two columns.
[18:58] <james_w> so, if anyone sees this again, can they please check the diff window, and file a bug on update-manager if they see the same please?
[18:58] <seb128> doesn't look like the conffile prompt indeed
[18:58] <qense> is bug 201019 a bug in gnome-panel or gnome-applets or even in a completely different package?(GTK?)
[18:58] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 201019 in gnome-applets "gnome-applets Charpick applet does not support transparency" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201019
[18:58] <seb128> james_w: what would you expect update-manager to do?
[18:59] <james_w> seb128: showing a diff is fine, but the presentation made it absolutely unreadable in this case, so I had no chance of assessing the changes.
[18:59] <asomething> qense: i'd check for a dup
[19:00] <seb128> qense: bug #190241
[19:00] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 190241 in gnome-applets "[wish] 8.04 hardy heron - apply transparence to charpick" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190241
[19:00] <james_w> seb128: there is a bug open on u-m to have a proper two/three pane diff like meld.
[19:00] <qense> thx
[19:00] <asomething> thought i'd seen it before
[19:01] <bdmurray> seb128: bug 179492 is fixed in debian and we auto sync with them, what needs to happen next?
[19:01] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 179492 in exuberant-ctags "exuberant-ctags: python variables starting with "def" are shown as functions" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179492
[19:02] <seb128> bdmurray: depends of the situation, either that's something we want for hardy and the debian changes are already, in which case somebody needs to do a sync request
[19:02] <seb128> bdmurray: or there is too many debian change and the fix should be backported to haryd
[19:02] <seb128> bdmurray: or we don't need to be fixed in hardy and we will wait until next cycle for a sync
[19:03] <bdmurray> seb128: so there'd need to be a second bug to get it sync'ed?
[19:03] <james_w> the sync would just bring in this bug fix, a no change standards update, and a change to debian/copyright
[19:03] <james_w> and the maintainer is cjwatson if you want to get his opinion.
[19:03] <seb128> bdmurray: yes, or hijack this one to a sync request and update the title
[19:05] <qense> shall I close bug 200958 and point him to brainstorm?
[19:05] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 200958 in gnome-menus "Menu Sub-Categories" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200958
[19:07] <qense> Maybe he'd even better post this on GNOMEs or Freedesktops bug tracker
[19:08] <seb128> qense: not sure, we have no right way to handle those currently
[19:09] <qense> I've told him to suggest this somehwere else
[19:09] <seb128> qense: you can confirm it as a wishlist for now and indicate that a list or forum might be a better media to discuss the change
[19:09] <seb128> qense: that's alright
[19:09] <qense> it's quite a major change
[19:09] <seb128> yes
[19:09] <qense> I did mark it as invalid
[19:09] <qense> but I can't set the importance since my application for bugcontrol is still under review
[19:10] <seb128> no problem, I'll reply if he disagrees
[19:12] <james_w> heh :) That's one way to find users from your city, make the panel crash when they set the city as their location in the clock, and then triage the bug report.
[19:16] <qense> there would be a small change to find someone from my own village :)
[19:16] <qense> although a computer shop in a village nearby sells computers with ubuntu
[19:20] <qense> there are a lot of bugs in the weather applet
[19:20] <joumetal> Any ideas to bug 194023?
[19:20] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 194023 in update-manager-core "LTS to LTS Upgrade 6.06 -> 8.04 error: Can't calculate upgrade, Failed to read Mirror, bzip2 errors" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194023
[19:31] <qense> We should give the weather-applet its own hug day :) it has a lot of bugs reported against it
[19:35] <yuriy> bdmurray: could you please make bug graphs for amarok for hug day?
[19:37] <qense> bug 200942 is invalid, isn't it?
[19:37] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 200942 in gnome-media "gnome-media-common wants to remove important packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200942
[19:38] <qense> there are loads of packages that want to remove ubuntu-desktop
[19:38] <qense> gnome-audio for example
[19:39] <bdmurray> yuriy: I'll look into it, give me a minute
[19:40] <andrea-bs> qense: I can't reproduce the bug on hardy with latest updates
[19:40] <yuriy> bdmurray: ok, thanks
[19:40] <qense> it's invalid than :)
[19:40] <qense> thx
[19:51] <yuriy> bdmurray: for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20080313/KDE
[19:51] <bdmurray> yuriy: I'd guessed as much. ;)
[19:53] <qense> I go, bye
[19:54] <bdmurray> yuriy: is there something wrong with http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/complete-graphs/amarok/
[20:03] <booxter> Hello! is there any people who wish to help fixing some bugs in locales/language selector regarding Belarusian language? Thanks is what I can give for this:)
[20:16] <secretlondon> booxter: what help do you need?
[20:20] <booxter> there are some old bugs that need fixing (and there is a fix already) but they aren't. These bugs are regarding new Belarusian Latin translation of Linux software (GNOME 2.22 is ~74% translated, almost official fully translated status). But Ubuntu doesn't support this locale, nor in Language selector, nor in ubuntu 'be' locale file in .../supported/en ...
[20:20] <booxter> secretlondon,
[20:21] <booxter> and for now our users should make a huge effort in Ubuntu to enable our localization. With manually editing configs, generating locales and so on...
[20:22] <secretlondon> booxter: there needs to be a bug on rosetta I think to get the locale included
[20:22] <booxter> rosetta is not the problem I mean
[20:23] <booxter> (and btw rosetta can't help our efforts because it doesn't support 'language variants' like be@latin or sr@Latn)
[20:23] <booxter> bugs are in launchpad
[20:23] <booxter> assigned to the proper packages
[20:23] <secretlondon> booxter: it can be made to support your locale
[20:23] <booxter> one of them even have a patch attached
[20:24] <booxter> but devs ignore this (that's how it's seen by our l10n team)
[20:24] <secretlondon> do you have some bug numbers I can look at?
[20:24] <booxter> i'd like to see it's not
[20:24] <booxter> wait a minute, i'll write them here
[20:25] <secretlondon> it needs to be implemented *above* an individual package level
[20:28] <booxter> #146681 (Language selector), #157654 (no be@latin locale generated, with patch), #159402 (obsolete Locations.xml file for be@latin <- though don't know if it is fixed for the next Ubuntu release), and, for completeness, #29800 (no Rosetta support for lang-variants)
[20:28] <booxter> secretlondon, here they are
[20:28] <secretlondon> thanks!
[20:30] <booxter> no reason for thanks. That would be the reason to thank you if you'll help our community to finally make public statements in Belarusian news sources about the first Belarusian OS ever being:)
[20:31] <booxter> *Belarusian Latin
[20:32] <secretlondon> Wikipedia says Belarusian is written in cyrillic. You are http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belarusian_Latin_alphabet?
[20:32] <secretlondon> bug #29800
[20:32] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 29800 in rosetta "variant (sr@Latn) support" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/29800
[20:33] <booxter> yes, there are two scripts and three literature normalizations of our language:)
[20:34] <secretlondon> bug #29800 looks stuck
[20:34] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 29800 in rosetta "variant (sr@Latn) support" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/29800
[20:34] <secretlondon> bug #159402
[20:34] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 159402 in language-pack-be "Ubuntu uses old Locations.xml file for gweather panel applet" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159402
[20:35] <booxter> Yes, but Rosetta is not the main priority for now for Belarusian Latin community:) Though we'll be happy if lang-variants support would be implemented :)
[20:35] <secretlondon> Ubuntu translations go through rosetta as far as I know. I'm not exactly sure how it works #launchpad may know more
[20:36] <secretlondon> I think actually the root bug may be the rosetta one
[20:36] <booxter> they aren't really... there are be@latin gettext-files installed in Ubuntu with generic Belarusian langpack
[20:37] <booxter> we just don't have the possibility to update them through Rosetta and to translate Ubuntu-specific software
[20:38] <secretlondon> bug #146681
[20:38] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 146681 in language-selector "Belarusian Latin for selector" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/146681
[20:39] <secretlondon> bug #157654
[20:39] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 157654 in ubuntu "No Belarusian Latin locale generated" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157654
[20:41] <booxter> as you can see, the least two bugs already have solutions/fixes/patches so I can't imagine why they are stucked
[20:43] <secretlondon> probably because they all need some overriding approval - however i'm not sure what and from where
[20:44] <secretlondon> I think this stuff is generally filed against l10n, I'll see what I can work out
[20:44] <booxter> ow, tnx! how can I contact you on the issue?
[20:46] <secretlondon> I've subscribed to bug #157654
[20:46] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 157654 in ubuntu "No Belarusian Latin locale generated" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157654
[20:46] <booxter> ok, it's a quickfix I think. Just one more string in supported.d/be file
[20:47] <booxter> and Belarusian Latin in Language Selector is one string too
[20:48] <secretlondon> I suspect this isn't stuck technically but I'll investigate
[20:48] <booxter> other issues are not so serious for today and possibly need more work, so just drop them for this Ubuntu release
[20:49] <secretlondon> Ubuntu was the first OS to have support for the Kurdish language, so I don't see why we shouldn't support this
[20:49] <booxter> secretlondon, ok, thank you for attention! see you later on launchpad bugzilla.
[20:49] <secretlondon> np :)
[20:52] <booxter> yes, level of Kurdish support is what we want for Belarusian Latin:) We've already discussed Kurdish issue in our local i18n community. That's fantastic when 'little' languages have computer software in it, especially for us who can't imagine even generic Belarusian cyrillic support in M$ Windows:)
[20:54] <secretlondon> well with Kurdish you can understand why Microsoft and Apple wouldn't touch it. The Turkish government is hostile and has $$
[20:55] <secretlondon> Only free software can provide minority language communities with software in their own language
[20:55] <booxter> ...and Belarusian language has no support of any government:)
[20:55] <secretlondon> in latin
[20:55] <booxter> no, at all
[20:56] <secretlondon> Doesn't Belarusian cyrillic have support of the Belarusian government, or is it Russian?
[20:56] <bdmurray> can anybody confirm the minimum time for sleep On AC Power in gnome-power-manager is 11 minutes?
[20:57] <booxter> yes, Russian is everywhere. Belarusian is marginalized by our authorities
[20:57] <booxter> bdmurray, yes, it is (on Gentoo)
[20:58] <secretlondon> bdmurray: same in hardy
[20:58] <secretlondon> bdmurray: battery power too
[21:00] <bdmurray> That's weird, I wonder why eleven and that also seems longer than it used to be.
[21:01] <secretlondon> >10 mins to 1 hour?
[21:01] <bdmurray> I've been looking at bug 109338 and it mentions 5 minutes
[21:01] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 109338 in gnome-power-manager "Computer will suspend while copying file across network" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/109338
[21:02] <secretlondon> presumably it was 5 mins at that point?
[21:04] <secretlondon> i'll look at change logs
[21:04] <crimsun> secretlondon: as a pointer, audio bugs with a symptom of "low sound", "volume blah blah blah" are linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22 (gutsy), linux-backports-modules-2.6.22 (gutsy w/ a manual install of l-b-m), or linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 (hardy).  It's almost never alsa-driver or alsa-lib.
[21:05] <secretlondon> crimsun: thanks. I think I was using part of the debugging procedures to allocate
[21:05] <crimsun> secretlondon: (alsa-driver ships only configuration files by default.  alsa-lib has nothing to do with volume.)
[21:05] <secretlondon> ok
[21:05] <crimsun> thanks again for triaging, BTW :)
[21:06] <secretlondon> i'll check the kernel triaging docs in a sec, as they prob need making more clear
[21:06] <crimsun> definitely.  Documentation nearly always succumbs to bitrot most quickly.
[21:08] <bdmurray> crimsun: you mentioned bug 118610 is an upstream bug.  upstream where?
[21:08] <ubotwo> Launchpad bug 118610 in alsa-tools "[alsa-firmware] tascam us428: one file is missing" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/118610
[21:08] <secretlondon> bdmurray: g-p-m faq says "The sliders in gnome-power-preferences are set to start at the value of the session-timout + 1 minute"
[21:09] <crimsun> bdmurray: upstream upstream.  www.alsa-project.org
[21:09] <crimsun> bdmurray: to clarify, tsmithe has done some work with maintaining it separately; he may have more insight.
[21:11] <tsmithe> crimsun, bdmurray, alsa-firmware (which provides that file) is on its way to medibuntu. it will never even be in multiverse, unless the licensing is cleared up
[21:11] <tsmithe> so i'm not sure what you wish to do about that kind of bug report
[21:12] <crimsun> tsmithe: oh, then that's easy.  Won't fix.
[21:12] <secretlondon> bdmurray: http://live.gnome.org/GnomePowerManager/FAQ says timeout in gnome-screensaver-preferences +1 min
[21:13] <bdmurray> tsmithe: okay, thanks.  I'll close it then with an explanation.
[21:13] <tsmithe> crimsun, bddebian; it's a bit sad really. i was looking into getting a jockey handler written (it's nice when hardware just works...)
[21:14] <bdmurray> secretlondon: wow, thanks for looking into it.  that is not something I would have guessed.
[21:15] <crimsun> gah, almost train time.  Let's see how many more of these alsa-lib bugs can be triaged.
[21:16] <bdmurray> tsmithe: so the loaders are provided by alsa-firmware-loaders but no firmware is included?
[21:17] <secretlondon> bdmurray: just confirmed it. set the screensaver timeout to 1 min and the g-p-m slider went down to 2 min :)
[21:17] <tsmithe> yes. in fact a recent upload of -loaders patched the package in anticipation of alsa-firmware inclusion. unfortunately, it was fatally rejected (and with good reason)
[21:18] <bdmurray> secretlondon: its funny you can get from the screensaver to g-p-m but not the other way around
[21:18]  * secretlondon nods
[21:18] <bdmurray> isn't some of the firmware gpl though?
[21:19] <tsmithe> some is. some claims to be (and provides no sources). and some isn't. most fall into the last two categories, and so the package, if it were to be dfsg-ised would be rendered pretty much useless
[21:29] <secretlondon> crimsun: our docs (in debugging hal) say "Sound problems: If the device appears in /proc/asound/cards, it should be assigned to [WWW] alsa-lib. If it is not even detected by the kernel, it should go to the [WWW] kernel."
[21:30] <secretlondon> that's how that got assigned to alsa-lib
[21:30] <secretlondon> as it was on hal
[21:35] <greg-g> what timezone is WET?
[21:35] <secretlondon> gmt =1
[21:35] <secretlondon> +1
[21:35] <greg-g> ahhh
[21:35] <secretlondon> western european time
[21:35] <secretlondon> afaik
[21:35] <greg-g> gotcha, I was curious because bdmurray is in western US
[21:35] <secretlondon> he'll be pst (or pdt now I think)
[21:35] <greg-g> right
[21:36] <secretlondon> pacific timr
[21:36] <greg-g> which is why I was confused
[21:36] <secretlondon> I think the us went to summertime last weekend
[21:36] <greg-g> we did, it was a pain
[21:36] <bdmurray> secretlondon: correct
[21:37] <secretlondon> we go later in the month
[21:37] <greg-g> we used to :)
[21:37] <secretlondon> so the gap between london and new york is currently -4
[21:40] <bdmurray> bug screenshots are so interesting
[21:40] <secretlondon> I always try, as it says so much more than a whole para of text
[21:42] <bdmurray> I meant it is interesting to see what people have on their desktop.
[21:42] <secretlondon> ;)
[21:43] <secretlondon> computer names in bug reports can be fun for that
[22:13] <crimsun> secretlondon: that's wrong
[22:14] <crimsun> secretlondon: "crackling" can go to -lib; everything else needs to go to the appropriate linux* package.
[22:14] <secretlondon> crimsun: I've no idea who wrote that, but that's what we followed on the hal hug day
[22:15] <crimsun> secretlondon: understood.  Just a heads-up.
[22:15] <secretlondon> crimsun: agreed. we need to change it
[22:28] <secretlondon> corrected DebuggingHal
[22:29] <crimsun> many thanks
[22:49] <james_w> one problem with the -bugs-announce channel is that the lack of joins/parts leads to just one big wall of bugs, and I find it harder to pick them out.
[22:50] <bdmurray> james_w: are you looking for something in particular?
[22:50] <james_w> bdmurray: no, it was just on this channel my eye used to pick certain things out, and that doesn't seem to work now.
[22:51] <bdmurray> james_w: it was quite distracting for me since I'd see something I could do with almost every bug
[22:51] <james_w> :-)
[23:23] <yuriy> bdmurray: oh! are those up there all the time?
[23:24] <bdmurray> yuriy: yes, they have been.  where have you been finding graph information?  I would have thought it was linked to.
[23:25] <bdmurray> james_w: I could say bug numbers for you occassionally. ;)
[23:25] <james_w> bdmurray: that may work :)
[23:27] <yuriy> bdmurray: i haven't been finding. this is only the 3rd time i'm making the page. first time you offered to make graphs, second time i didn't bother
[23:29] <bdmurray> yuriy: I do graph a fair number of kubuntu related packages.
[23:29] <yuriy> mm cool
[23:31] <bdmurray> if there some busy packages missing feel free to let me know
[23:36] <jjesse> join #ubuntu-server