[12:17] <ajmitch> Toadstool: usual procedure is to let one of the MOTU UVF team know
[12:19] <Toadstool> ajmitch: and you're part of that team? :)
[12:19] <pygi> Toadstool: are you reading pm's ? :P
[12:19] <Toadstool> pygi: yup
[12:19] <pygi> oki, please respond then :)
[12:20] <ajmitch> Toadstool: sure
[12:20] <ajmitch> Toadstool: it helps if we know what's been uploaded when kamion asks for approval
[12:21] <Toadstool> yup, then there will be a gnomebaker upload in a few minutes
[12:21] <ajmitch> as I can tell :)
[12:22] <Toadstool> heh
[12:31] <Toadstool> pygi: pdebuild-ing
[12:56] <bhale> hi imbrandon
[12:56] <imbrandon> ello bhale
[12:56] <imbrandon> nick change?
[12:57] <bhale> yes
[12:57] <imbrandon> ;)
[12:57] <imbrandon> you should let me have brandon ;)
[12:57] <imbrandon> hehe
[12:57] <bhale> someone has it
[12:57] <bhale> i believe
[12:57] <imbrandon> yea , i thought it was you
[12:57] <bhale> [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)]             Nickname: brandon
[12:57] <bhale> [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)]           Registered: 1 year 6 weeks 5  days (3h 24m 46s) ago
[12:57] <bhale> [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)]            Last Seen: 4 days (9h 19m 42s)  ago (brandon|around seen 4 days (9h 19m 42s) ago)
[12:57] <bhale> [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)]    Last Seen Address<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:58] <bhale> its not me
[12:58] <bhale> [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)]             Nickname: Tseng
[12:58] <bhale> [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)]           Registered: 3 years 37 weeks 4  days (22h 9m 26s) ago
[12:58] <bhale> he's too new :)
[12:58] <imbrandon> ;)
[12:58] <imbrandon> iirc he does linux stuff but not ubuntu
[12:58] <imbrandon> i talked to him long ago when i registerd on freenode
[12:59] <bhale> i know several brandon's
[12:59] <bhale> but not this one
[12:59] <imbrandon> bhale, you comming to mtv ?
[12:59] <bhale> no
[12:59] <imbrandon> ahh darn ;(
[12:59] <bhale> i'd rather have my appendix put back and removed again
[12:59] <bhale> sorry.
[12:59] <imbrandon> hahahaha
[01:00] <imbrandon> he registered just before me
[01:00] <imbrandon> [17:59]  [Notice]  -NickServ-            Nickname: imbrandon << ONLINE >>
[01:00] <imbrandon> [17:59]  [Notice]  -NickServ-          Registered: 1 year 12 weeks 5 days (20h 14m 55s) ago
[01:00] <bhale> the best part of that was waking up with no appendix, and finding out you are just as sick as when you started
[01:00] <imbrandon> well with this nick, i had another a few years back i let expire
[01:00] <bhale> (and sliced open twice)
[01:00] <imbrandon> lol
[01:01] <bhale> family guy preempted by baseball
[01:01] <imbrandon> i just got done watching the cheifs get slaughtered
[01:01] <bhale> baseball starts 9 months ago or something
[01:02] <bhale> it never ends
[01:02] <imbrandon> heh
[01:02] <imbrandon> there is a short off season
[01:02] <bhale> its called spring training
[01:03] <bhale> oh good, MythBusters is on
[01:04] <imbrandon> you know i ment mountain view cali not music television right brandon ?
[01:04] <imbrandon> lol
[01:04] <bhale> yes
[01:04] <bhale> Ubuntu Lockin 6
[01:04] <imbrandon> kk just thought i would make sure with all the tv talk ;)
[01:05] <imbrandon> hahah Lockin , havent thought about that in a long time
[01:05] <bhale> thats what it is
[01:05] <imbrandon> basicly yea , heh
[01:06] <imbrandon> wb LaserJock
[01:06] <bhale> yay LaserJock
[01:06] <imbrandon> hum , i need some extra contract work *thinks*
[01:08] <LaserJock> hi everybody
[01:09] <imbrandon> how go's it LaserJock
[01:10] <LaserJock> hmm, I don't know
[01:11] <LaserJock> I'm kinda sick of reading "Why do you ignore feature/user group/package X ?"
[01:12] <imbrandon> heh, me too , but i kinda just give them a generic answer and go on
[01:12] <imbrandon> just do what i can
[01:13] <imbrandon> i hate it when it creeps up 2 weeks before release, i'm like youve had 4 months to mention this before
[01:13] <LaserJock> mhm
[01:13] <imbrandon> then they get all pissy
[01:14] <LaserJock> well, I don't want to tell people "We simply don't have time or resources" cause then it sounds like Ubuntu is in really bad shape
[01:14] <LaserJock> but that's usually exactly what happens
[01:14] <imbrandon> well it is true, we are limited
[01:14] <imbrandon> as bad as it sounds its not really "bad"
[01:14] <imbrandon> but thats hard to explain , i hear ya
[01:15] <imbrandon> my latest plight is trying to make libgpod work with the new ipods without introducing a new version
[01:15] <LaserJock> it's also a catch 22
[01:15] <imbrandon> this late in the cycle
[01:15] <LaserJock> as you need people to test and report bugs
[01:15] <imbrandon> seems apple has pushed a new firmware
[01:16] <LaserJock> but then it becomes harder to fix bugs becuase we are trying to stabalize
[01:16] <imbrandon> LaserJock, exactly
[01:19] <LaserJock> I don't know how people can stand more then 1 or 2 releases
[01:19] <Toadstool> pygi: great! the patch attached to the bug report is not complete :p
[01:20] <pygi> Toadstool: ehm?!
[01:20] <Toadstool> hey LaserJock & imbrandon
[01:28] <LaserJock> hi Toadstool
[01:28] <pygi> what happened!!?
[01:28] <Toadstool> pygi: device.h modification is missing in the patch attached to the bug
[01:28] <pygi> o joy, is the upstream (SF bug attachment) patch complete?
[01:28] <Toadstool> I don't know, I took the diff directly in the cvs
[01:28] <imbrandon> heya Toadstool
[01:28] <Toadstool> pygi: ok, with the missing chunk, it builds fine ;)
[01:28] <pygi> good :P
[01:28] <Toadstool> you sure you tested that patch thoroughly? :p
[01:28] <LaserJock> we're supposed to test things? ;-)
[01:28] <Toadstool> heh
[01:30] <Toadstool> pygi: uploaded
[01:31] <pygi> Toadstool: yes, the patch works 100%
[01:32] <slomo> imbrandon: for ipod stuff look at libipoddevice, the new version works with the new firmware but it's not really a trivial change
[01:33] <imbrandon> slomo, yea the new version of libgpod does too ( that amarok uses ) but this late in the cycle i hate for a main uvf ( and doubt it would go though anyhow )
[01:34] <slomo> imbrandon: i don't think it will be approved too ;) i asked for a far more trivial upload earlier today and got a "no" as answer
[01:34] <imbrandon> i have a amarok package on imbrandon.com that has the stuff for mtp and mp4v2 enabled from multiverse for people that need it to make their devices work i might just put it there for now
[01:35] <imbrandon> and worry about a "better fix" for edgy+1
[01:35] <imbrandon> and then backport it if someoen requests it
[01:36] <imbrandon> i hate to go that route but this late it seems to be the only good option
[01:36] <imbrandon> sides it will give me some good feedback for when it does get uploaded ;)
[01:40] <shawarma> slomo: Do you think you could do a no-change upload of texlive-bin? See bug #65658
[01:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65658 in texlive-bin "pdflatex: symbol lookup error: pdflatex: undefined symbol: _ZN4Dict3addERK10UGooStringP6Object" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65658
[01:40] <shawarma> slomo: If a no-change upload can't get an exception I don't know what can. :-)
[01:41] <slomo> shawarma: thanks for noticing... i'll care for it :) ajmitch, what do you think? ;)
[01:42] <shawarma> slomo: I tend to notice when my university project report fails to compile. :-)
[01:46] <LaserJock> heh
[01:46] <LaserJock> I wondered
[01:52] <LaserJock> hmm, anybody know off hand how long Gnome has been around?
[01:53] <whiprush> 1997-ish
[01:53] <bhale> hi whiprush
[01:53] <bhale> LaserJock: shortly after KDE
[01:53] <LaserJock> huh, I thought it was later
[01:54] <bhale> i started using it in 98-99
[01:54] <LaserJock> I was probably using minux about that time ;-)
[01:56] <LaserJock> more likely Debian on ~11 floppy disks
[01:57] <bhale> i spent a week downloading redhat at 28.8
[01:58] <LaserJock> yeah, I wasn't that excited
[01:58] <LaserJock> I just wanted a shell to play around with
[01:58] <LaserJock> it wasn't until I started grad school that I really started using Linux
[01:59] <LaserJock> :/
[02:00] <ajmitch> slomo: you're on the uvf team, you can decide :)
[02:00] <ajmitch> afternoon all
[02:01] <LaserJock> I never even tried slack
[02:02] <shawarma> slack was my first distro as well. I was young and nave back then.
[02:02] <shawarma> I found my first Linux CD's a couple of months ago. They were from '96, I think.
[02:03] <LaserJock> the first distro I used for more then 1 month was Gentto
[02:03] <shawarma> LaserJock: Oh, dear. When was this?
[02:03] <imbrandon> only becosue it took more than a month to compile the desktop
[02:03] <imbrandon> ;)
[02:03] <shawarma> heh :-)
[02:04] <LaserJock> haha
[02:04] <LaserJock> that was 2002
[02:04] <shawarma> n00b!
[02:04] <LaserJock> I used Gentoo for about 2 years
[02:04] <shawarma> :-P
[02:04] <shawarma> :-)
[02:04] <LaserJock> I really liked it
[02:04] <imbrandon> LaserJock, and still never got kde to boot ?
[02:05] <imbrandon> hehe \
[02:05] <LaserJock> gentoo rocked dude
[02:05] <LaserJock> things "just worked"
[02:05] <imbrandon> yea i know, i use it on some servers here
[02:05] <imbrandon> but its a pita
[02:05] <LaserJock> and it had all the apps I wanted
[02:05] <LaserJock> but yeah, I was a KDE guy back then
[02:05] <shawarma> LaserJock: What are you doing here then?
[02:06] <LaserJock> and recompiling all of KDE all the time ...
[02:06] <imbrandon> not fun
[02:06] <LaserJock> shawarma: I had no need for a source distro
[02:06] <LaserJock> bad as it may seem, Ubuntu is like binary Gentoo for me ;-)
[02:07] <shawarma> LaserJock: Someone told me that you don't *have* to compile everything yourself under Gentoo.
[02:07] <imbrandon> shawarma, no you dopnt have to you can use grp packages if you want stuff thats months out of date
[02:07] <LaserJock> yeah
[02:07] <imbrandon> maybe more
[02:08] <imbrandon> the kde grp packages are still 3.4 last i looked
[02:08] <imbrandon> etc
[02:08] <LaserJock> I was never into Gentoo for the performance, I never could tell much of a difference
[02:08] <LaserJock> I just liked having all programs I use
[02:09] <LaserJock> and I liked the forum community ;-)
[02:10] <imbrandon> food time, bbaib
[02:11] <pygi> sharms: slack rocks
[02:11] <shawarma> I've never been too much of a forum person.
[02:11] <pygi> sharms: I used it since '95
[02:12] <shawarma> win 1
[02:12] <shawarma> grrr..
[02:12] <shawarma> Oh, dear. It's 2 AM again. I should go to bed.
[02:13] <shawarma> g'night, all!
[02:14] <imbrandon> gnight
[02:14] <LaserJock> cya shawarma
[02:24] <LaserJock> pygi: any particular feature that makes slack rock?
[02:24] <pygi> LaserJock: it those days, ofcourse :)
[02:26] <LaserJock> I always avoided it because I didn't see any real package mangement
[02:28] <pygi> ah
[02:29] <Amaranth> there is no dependency management
[02:30] <Amaranth> i don't know if what they have qualifies as package management either
[02:30] <pygi> :P
[02:31] <pygi> slack packages actually allow dependencies
[02:31] <pygi> and you can take advantage of them using swaret or slapt-get
[02:31] <pygi> but nevermind, we're ubuntu here :)
[02:33] <LaserJock> hmm
[02:35] <pygi> ok, sleep time
[02:35] <pygi> 2:36 AM
[02:35] <pygi> will sleep two hours again
[02:35] <LaserJock> yikes
[02:35] <pygi> night
[02:36] <crimsun> LaserJock: sorry, just remembered an earlier question. Try Thinking in C++, 2nd Ed., here: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/docs/books/eckel/
[02:38] <LaserJock> crimsun: cool, thanks
[02:39] <LaserJock> I'm trying to dive into an established project
[02:39] <LaserJock> and trying to make head or tails of it
[02:39] <imbrandon> heya crimsun
[02:39] <crimsun> hi imbrandon
[02:42] <imbrandon> hrm anyone know the issue why faad2 in is multiverse and not universe, it dosent look to be a dependacy issue, so i'm guessing its with the program/lib its self
[02:42] <LaserJock> hmm, I thought it had non-free stuff
[02:43] <imbrandon> probably but i'm trying to see what exactly, becosue its has aac support and aac is iirc open source etc
[02:43] <imbrandon> thinking maybe i can do a dfsg version of it
[02:43] <imbrandon> *hopes*
[02:43] <imbrandon> if its just a small part of it thats not dfsg etc
[02:45] <crimsun> imbrandon: it's patent-encumbered and we can't even legally distribute modified source.
[02:45] <slomo> imbrandon: patent reasons
[02:45] <imbrandon> faad2 or aac ?
[02:45] <slomo> aac
[02:45] <slomo> patented like all the mpeg stuff
[02:45] <imbrandon> hrm
[02:46] <imbrandon> iirc aac was open, i guess i was wrong /me *thinks*
[02:46] <slomo> it's "open" as in the specs are open, etc
[02:46] <slomo> but still the techniques (?) are patented
[02:47] <crimsun> gah, xmms is still in main?
[02:47] <ajmitch> I have no idea why
[02:47] <imbrandon> i would hope not heh
[02:47] <ajmitch>       xmms | 1.2.10+cvs20060429-1ubuntu2 | http://apt-proxy edgy/main Packages
[02:47] <ajmitch> you'd think not, by now..
[02:47] <slomo> probably the last thing in main that can decode mp3 ;)
[02:48] <crimsun> (and libmad)
[02:48] <slomo> oh mad is still there too...
[02:48] <imbrandon> hehe amarok can with 2 clicks now ;) /me is happy about that one
[02:49] <imbrandon> crap flac isnt free either ? man i need to study up some more
[02:49] <slomo> hmm, k3b, akode and libtunepimp are keeping it in main... so only because of kde stuff ;)
[02:49] <crimsun> flac is unencumbered last I checked
[02:49] <slomo> there were rumours that something in flac is patented but nobody could proove it
[02:50] <imbrandon> hum i wonder why its in extra-codecs then
[02:50] <imbrandon> i'm trying to do a little background work for this spec and get a clear ".plan" for the kde side for mtv
[02:50] <imbrandon> ( and just generaly becouse its needed )
[02:51] <imbrandon> but codecs are a mess it seems , well mostly
[02:51] <slomo> imbrandon: in extracodecs i only have ffmpeg, faad and mad
[02:51] <crimsun> not sure where you're getting flac in extracodecs
[02:51] <crimsun> libxine1: /usr/lib/xine/plugins/1.1.2/xineplug_flac.so
[02:51] <imbrandon> slomo, well xine engine ( specificly amarok-xine ) wont play a *.flac without libxine-extracodecs
[02:52] <imbrandon> hrm
[02:52] <slomo> interesting
[02:52] <slomo> any idea why?
[02:52] <imbrandon> no , thats what i'm trying to find out now
[02:52] <slomo> ok :)
[02:52] <imbrandon> seems it should
[02:53] <imbrandon> anyone else here wanna confirm what i just said ?
[02:53] <slomo> probably another case of xine not happy with the splitted situation...
[02:53] <imbrandon> e.g try to play a flac without libxine-extracodecs
[02:53] <imbrandon> to make sure i'm not a corner case somehow and it is truely a problem
[02:54] <imbrandon> before i dig way into it
[02:54] <slomo> one moment
[02:55] <slomo> ok, confirmed here...
[02:55] <imbrandon> kk good, well not good but makin sure
[02:55] <imbrandon> heh
[02:56] <imbrandon> why couldent i notice these things a few weeks ago before RC
[02:57] <slomo> maybe because it uses ffmpeg for decoding of flac
[03:04] <imbrandon> possibly
[03:22] <LaserJock> hmm, what's do you get with an avahi-enabled gaim?
[03:26] <Lathiat> LaserJock: ability to talk on the network with other people
[03:26] <Lathiat> e.g. they come up in your contact list etc
[03:26] <DarkMageZ> :o is edgy's gaim built with this?
[03:27] <LaserJock> on the local network?
[03:27] <LaserJock> how annoying ;-)
[03:28] <Lathiat> DarkMageZ: no
[03:28] <LaserJock> DarkMageZ: see the ubuntu-devel mailing list
[03:29] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: for edgy+1, telepathy should solve this issue
[03:30] <LaserJock> yeah, yeah, bunch of annoying stuff. I can imagine lots of people will love it though ;-)
[03:31] <LaserJock> almost as bad as having to wade through everybodies printer to get to the one I want
[03:31] <Burgundavia> adhock networking is the future
[03:32] <LaserJock> I suppose, doesn't mean I have to like it :-)
[03:33] <LaserJock> we have maybe 100 computers on our network
[03:34] <LaserJock> I dislike having to wade around through everybodies service brodcasting
[03:35] <DarkMageZ> hmm, has to be enabled @ configure time? does it end up as a plugin? or an always enabled feature...
[03:37] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: if you are at work, you should have an admin to make a decision on it
[03:38] <Burgundavia> DarkMageZ: currently avahi is turned off by deafult
[03:38] <Burgundavia> it is likely to be on by default in edgy+!
[04:04] <imbrandon> anyone ever used a curses based gnutella client?
[04:05] <imbrandon> i found a few on google but i mean experice if they are good/bad/ugly
[04:24] <LaserJock> hi Fujitsu
[04:24] <Fujitsu> Hey LaserJock.
[04:25] <imbrandon> heya Fujitsu
[04:25] <LaserJock> we need to get that gcl/maxima fix in -updates or I'm going to go nuts with bug reports
[04:25] <Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.
[04:25] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, true... But the proper procedure never got decided on...
[04:25] <LaserJock> yeah
[04:26] <LaserJock> do we need another MOTU meeting to finalize the Stable Release Updates procedure?
[04:29] <Fujitsu> Or do we just want to attempt to get gcl/maxima fixed for the moment as described on MOTU/Processes/SRU? That process is workable, though not exactly finalised..
[04:31] <LaserJock> yeah, maybe we should use it as a test case
[04:31] <LaserJock> I think the 2 weeks in -proposed is a little odd
[04:31] <Fujitsu> That's more than most main stuff gets, isn't it?
[04:33] <LaserJock> yes
[04:33] <LaserJock> Main gets 1 week
[04:34] <LaserJock> sweet! I just found 3 Dapper CDs
[04:34] <LaserJock> I thought I left them in Mountain View
[04:37] <Fujitsu> When were you there?
[04:37] <LaserJock> in August
[04:37] <LaserJock> for Ubucon
[04:37] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[04:37] <LaserJock> kinda gave 2 presentations
[04:38] <Fujitsu> It really makes things rather difficult :S
[04:38] <LaserJock> yeah, maybe just start the process
[04:38] <Toadstool> hey Fujitsu
[04:38] <Fujitsu> Hi Toadstool.
[04:39] <Fujitsu> First up, gcl needs that patch.
[04:39] <Fujitsu> Now, can I remember where it is...
[04:41] <LaserJock> hmm
[04:41] <LaserJock> I guess the first question is if it is a "high profile" update
[04:42] <Fujitsu> Yes. It certainly is.
[04:43] <LaserJock> think so?
[04:43] <LaserJock> personally I wouldn't think it would be
[04:43] <Kyral> IBM Pollyanna Principle:
[04:43] <Kyral>         Machines should work.  People should think.
[04:43] <imbrandon> considering i dont even know what it is i wouldnet be
[04:43] <LaserJock> I guess that's why we need a policy
[04:44] <LaserJock> and that's why the whole "high profile" thing is going to be troublesome
[04:45] <LaserJock> it's high profile in the sense that it's a pretty severe bug
[04:45] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, why wouldn't it be? We have a lot of people complaining, and it completely breaks that package. In main/restricted, severe regressions come under that category.
[04:45] <Fujitsu> This is a regression.
[04:45] <LaserJock> because "high profile" mean high up on the popcon stats to me
[04:46] <Toadstool> as long as the package is unusable, I'd say that it is a valid candidate for a SRU
[04:46] <LaserJock> hmm, ok well maybe I'm just thinking of this wrong
[04:46] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, high profile bug, not package. As in, it's not some obscure bug that somebody might run into once every 1,000,000 tries.
[04:47] <LaserJock> I was reading "high profile" as package
[04:47] <LaserJock> i.e. breaking Xorg is a big no no
[04:47] <Fujitsu> `Just high-profile bug fixes'
[04:47] <LaserJock> I still don't see it as a high-profile bug fix in the larger scheme of things
[04:48] <Fujitsu> Not in the scheme of things, no.
[04:48] <LaserJock> but then this is the problem with this SRU procedure
[04:48] <Fujitsu> Yeah, you can't have a proper, objective, quantitative assessment of the high-profileness of a bug fix.
[04:49] <LaserJock> ok, but I guess maybe this is what I'm getting hung up on
[04:49] <LaserJock> what happens to non-"high profile" bug fixes?
[04:50] <Fujitsu> They get their bugs spammed eternally, like #43150?
[04:50] <Toadstool> bug 43150
[04:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43150 in gcl "wxmaxima fails with error, can't connect to maxima" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43150
[04:50] <Toadstool> haha
[04:50] <LaserJock> I was thinking it would imply we could just upload the update
[04:51] <LaserJock> I guess that is an important point
[04:51] <Fujitsu> Oh, you think like that.
[04:52] <Fujitsu> I took it to mean that little tiny bugs won't be fixed at all, only big ones will.
[04:52] <LaserJock> to me SRU was going to be used to make sure we don't break something important
[04:52] <Fujitsu> But you've taken it to mean that little ones are exempt from the procedure?
[04:52] <LaserJock> yes
[04:53] <Fujitsu> We need the almight dholbach :(
[04:53] <Fujitsu> *almighty
[04:53] <LaserJock> I figured it was trivial to decide if it goes in -updates or not, the question was "how" it got to -updates and how much testing needed to be done
[04:54] <LaserJock> if it is how you are thinking then it is indeed a "high profile" bug of course :-)
[04:54] <Fujitsu> Yes, we were thinking of it in completely different meanings...
[04:54] <Fujitsu> By your definition, it's not a high profile bug.
[04:54] <Fujitsu> It cannot break anything further than it is now.
[04:54] <Fujitsu> It's already ultimately broken, so it can't get any worse.
[04:56] <LaserJock> but actually your reading makes more sense, as it is called StableReleaseUpdates and not HighRiskStableReleaseUpdates ;-)
[04:56] <Toadstool> what about: package not usable/uninstallable -> eligible for a SRU -> need debdiff, diffstat, buildlog, approval by motu-sru team -> fix uploaded to -proposed -> we ask people to test it thoroughly -> if no more complaints about the bug -> -updates ?
[04:57] <LaserJock> that's still a lot of "stuff" to go through
[04:57] <Toadstool> well, it's a stable release ;)
[04:57] <LaserJock> since right now it's just  motu checks patch/fix -> motu uploads
[04:59] <Fujitsu> This fix is minor, and has no potential to break things. Toadstool's sequence there really is overkill.
[05:00] <Fujitsu> main stuff doesn't go through many things like that.
[05:00] <Fujitsu> Just debdiff, sometimes straight to -updates, sometimes to -proposed then tested.
[05:00] <Toadstool> and then X.org breaks :p
[05:00] <Fujitsu> Er, yeah.
[05:00] <LaserJock> but we have no real X.org, it's Universe
[05:01] <Toadstool> yeah, true
[05:01] <Fujitsu> And universe != main.
[05:01] <LaserJock> I want to keep -updates quality high
[05:01] <Fujitsu> As do I.
[05:01] <LaserJock> I had to fix a -updates already
[05:01] <LaserJock> I'd rather avoid that
[05:01] <Fujitsu> It's very high at the moment, 'cause there's only one or two things in there :P
[05:03] <LaserJock> 2 weeks is too long I think
[05:03] <LaserJock> I'd rather go for an "ack" system
[05:04] <Fujitsu> Much like UVF at the moment?
[05:04] <LaserJock> yes
[05:04] <LaserJock> but maybe a much larger group (perhaps all of MOTU) that can ack
[05:05] <LaserJock> I realize that -updates isn't use a ton, but I hate putting more work on the same people
[05:07] <minghua> Speaking of stable updates, do any of you think dapper should have different policy than other stable releases?
[05:07] <LaserJock> probably not
[05:07] <minghua> I won't bother with stable updates for edgy once edgy+1 is released
[05:08] <minghua> but I still want to push some stable updates for dapper after edgy release
[05:08] <LaserJock> I can see how in theory there would be a difference, but in practice I don't think there will be
[05:08] <LaserJock> if a bug need fixing it would be nice to fix it in any release we find it
[05:09] <Fujitsu> Dapper is different, LaserJock.
[05:09] <Fujitsu> Dapper will be shipped through ShipIt for quite some time.
[05:09] <LaserJock> I don't see how it would be fore Universe
[05:09] <LaserJock> sure
[05:10] <LaserJock> but I think Edgy should get updates as well
[05:10] <LaserJock> especially as Edgy seems to be more "stable" for many people
[05:10] <minghua> I always feel the biggest burden of stable release updates is on the release team
[05:11] <minghua> preparing a update is relatively easy, but making sure it doesn't break anything else is hard
[05:11] <minghua> but I can see LaserJock's point
[05:11] <LaserJock> right, except the release team wants us to handle most of the work for Universe
[05:12] <minghua> If there is user interest and developer willing to work on the update, I suppose why not
[05:12] <minghua> the developer is responsible to fix stuff if he breaks stuff
[05:12] <LaserJock> Universe is Universe, we do what we can
[05:12] <minghua> really REALLY conservative users can always use only -security, not -updates
[05:13] <LaserJock> what SRU should do is provide guidance and a process wherby we can have as high of quality updates as we can
[05:13] <minghua> acutually that's probably what I am going to do if I run a stable release
[05:14] <LaserJock> the problem is the testing, I think
[05:14] <LaserJock> how to get an update to a decent amount of people to test before it goes to -update
[05:15] <LaserJock> I fixed an -update upload that didn't install because a dep was missed
[05:15] <LaserJock> mearly installing the .deb before you upload would help :-)
[05:16] <Fujitsu> I've tested this upload on a few machines, but still...
[05:17] <LaserJock> I mean, you honestly could just upload the bugger I guess
[05:18] <LaserJock> I'm disliking this limbo
[05:19] <Fujitsu> Yes, it's been a couple of weeks...
[05:19] <LaserJock> but running by dholbach or motu-uvf wouldn't hurt
[05:19] <Fujitsu> I'll certainly run it by dholbach.
[05:21] <LaserJock> it would be good to get a list of dapper apps that are completely broken (won't install or segfault on startup, etc.)
[05:21] <LaserJock> I have no idea how one would do that though
[05:22] <Fujitsu> I could probably whip something up to check for things that don't install...
[05:22] <LaserJock> don't install would be a good start
[05:23] <LaserJock> I could do some searching through Malone
[05:23] <LaserJock> but I'm not sure if that would be productive
[05:23] <LaserJock> this a downside of team maintainace on this scale
[05:23] <Fujitsu> Search in Malone? You can't use those two in one sentence, I don't think
[05:24] <LaserJock> heh
[05:24] <minghua> searching though Malone is never productive for whatever reason IMHO :-P
[05:25] <LaserJock> the problem is
[05:25] <Fujitsu> You're not routing my IPs to here, you evil evil things.
[05:25] <Fujitsu> Is...?
[05:25] <LaserJock> we don't know most of our packages well enough to just know
[05:26] <LaserJock> and we have to wait until bugs reports come in
[05:26] <Fujitsu> This is where we have problems, yes.
[05:26] <LaserJock> which much of the time means waiting until after the release
[05:26] <Fujitsu> That's where Debian's maintainership is a good idea.
[05:26] <minghua> the other side of the same problem is we simply don't have enough users of the development branch, compared to debian
[05:27] <LaserJock> right
[05:27] <LaserJock> so we need to do more general testing before a release
[05:27] <minghua> I can easily find people to test stuff on debian testing or unstable for my input method packages
[05:27] <minghua> for ubuntu, very very hard
[05:27] <Toadstool> we could try to piuparts all Dapper's universe for a start...
[05:27] <LaserJock> maybe if we did a piuparts
[05:27] <LaserJock> hehe
[05:27] <Toadstool> :)
[05:28] <minghua> yeah, I like piuparts too
[05:28] <LaserJock> maybe we could do a piuparts audit of Universe for Dapper and Edgy
[05:28] <Toadstool> yup
[05:28] <LaserJock> I wonder how long that would take
[05:29] <Fujitsu> Quite a long time.
[05:29] <LaserJock> it would be nice if we could break Universe into logical chunks for these kinds of task
[05:29] <LaserJock> s
[05:29] <LaserJock> I suppose alphabetically would work
[05:30] <Fujitsu> Although, for that sort of thing, a few chroots running simultaneously doing that on one machine would work fine. Throw in several machines, and it should be fairly quickly.
[05:30] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, yes, that's really the only way.
[05:30] <minghua> it needs a big local archive, and a lot of cpu powers
[05:30] <minghua> not an easy thing to set up
[05:30] <Fujitsu> minghua, installing a package doesn't need much CPU powe.
[05:30] <Fujitsu> *power
[05:30] <Fujitsu> Especially if not much is installed.
[05:31] <Fujitsu> Most packages require very little post-processing, remember.
[05:31] <minghua> well, the way I understand piuparts, it installs and removes every package in a clean chroot
[05:31] <minghua> which probably means that you install and remove X for every GNOME and KDE package
[05:31] <LaserJock> yeah, it'd almost be like running pbuilder on Universe ;-)
[05:31] <minghua> and that's a lot of CPU power to me
[05:32] <Fujitsu> minghua, a good point, yes.
[05:32] <LaserJock> but if you could just set it going and after a few days come back ...
[05:34] <LaserJock> ok, let me add this to my MotuManagment page
[05:34] <Fujitsu> Where is that located?
[05:34] <LaserJock> perhaps a general motu-qa team that are willing to help with these sorts of things
[05:34] <LaserJock> wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/MotuManagment
[05:35] <LaserJock> heh, of course if I could spell :/
[05:35] <LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/MotuManagement
[05:36] <Fujitsu> Heh.
[05:38] <LaserJock> hehe
[05:38] <LaserJock> I might ask him at Mountain View
[05:39] <imbrandon> LaserJock, yea me too and i was going to maybe spec something too , kinda make it offical so we can auth against LP for the MOTU team etc
[05:39] <imbrandon> infact i was just writing some notes in kwrite about it earlier
[05:40] <LaserJock> yeah, I'm not sure what all to do
[05:40] <LaserJock> from Canonical's prespective we are "untrusted"
[05:40] <LaserJock> so they don't want to give us access to the inside machines
[05:40] <LaserJock> that's one of  the reasons we didn't get our own archive admin teams
[05:41] <imbrandon> right , but remote auth should be possible, kinda like how we do some of the webpages
[05:41] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:41] <LaserJock> at least having a few build/test machines would be nice
[05:42] <imbrandon> like i ahve access to some of the webpages and db's like art.u.c and such but its not LP based and those machines areint in the "real" dc
[05:42] <imbrandon> they are but they are on a diff subnet dmz etc
[05:42] <imbrandon> i'm thinking we could probably set something like that up
[05:42] <imbrandon> where its "sponsored" by cacnonical but not dirrect access to the dc computers
[05:43] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:43] <imbrandon> err that came out wrong but you see my idea
[05:43] <LaserJock> imbrandon: are you coming to Mountain View?
[05:43] <imbrandon> whereas some websites are only avail to like newzum becouse they are on the dc computers
[05:43] <imbrandon> LaserJock, yea
[05:44] <LaserJock> we need a list of MOTUs who will be in attendence
[05:44] <LaserJock> I didn't think Paris had too much MOTU attendence
[05:44] <imbrandon> isnt there an "attendies" page >
[05:44] <Hobbsee> true that
[05:44] <LaserJock> probably
[05:45] <imbrandon> one sec
[05:45] <Fujitsu> I'm not going, only 54 more to check.
[05:45] <LaserJock> it'd be nice to have some MOTU discussion
[05:45] <LaserJock> we had EasierMOTUing in paris which was fun
[05:46] <imbrandon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView/Attendees
[05:46] <LaserJock> but I think we might need some MOTU process discussions
[05:46] <imbrandon> ^^ i'm listed ;)
[05:46] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: 54 more what?
[05:46] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, there are 55 MOTUs, and I'm not going, so you need to check if the other 54 are going to UDS :P
[05:46] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: 53.  MOTU's to check
[05:47] <Fujitsu> There shouldn't have been an apostrophe there!
[05:47] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i dont go to school anymore.  my grammar is allowed to be slightly dodgy now
[05:47] <LaserJock> well, about 50 actually
[05:47] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, true...
[05:48] <Fujitsu> And quite a number of members of ubuntu-dev I haven't ever seen.
[05:48] <LaserJock> yes
[05:48] <LaserJock> imbrandon: yes you are darn it
[05:48] <imbrandon> LaserJock, yes i am in heart
[05:48] <Fujitsu> imbrandon, you're a super-MOTU.
[05:48] <LaserJock> yep
[05:48] <imbrandon> heh
[05:49] <LaserJock> we have levels of MOTUs
[05:49] <LaserJock> super-MOTUs
[05:49] <LaserJock> uber-MOTUs
[05:49] <LaserJock> diety-MOTUs
[05:49] <imbrandon> motu-aholic's ?
[05:49] <Fujitsu> And me, the poor little peasant-MOTU :P
[05:49] <LaserJock> heh, well the get to sit in the corner
[05:49] <LaserJock> hmm, peasant-MOTU
[05:50] <LaserJock> that puts Monty Python on the brain ;-)
[05:50] <Fujitsu> Heheh.
[05:50] <Hobbsee> imbrandon's just better than all of us.
[05:50] <imbrandon> LaserJock, yea but once i get the init spec for the "farm" done up , i'll poke you with the url ( ~24 hours ) and you can add/modify it
[05:50] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, nooooooooooooooooo
[05:50] <Fujitsu> \o/ imbrandon.
[05:51] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: hmmm?
[05:51] <imbrandon> but i think the "farm" is great idea, alot of intrest has been shown, it just hasent ben acted on alot , well i started it kinda but i have limited resources
[05:51] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:51] <minghua> does peasant-MOTU has any connection with build farm? :-)
[05:51] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: start utilising the money tree.
[05:51] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, heh
[05:52] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: but you *will* have to make sure everyone is using debsign -r
[05:52] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee, Mark, you mean? :P
[05:52] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: whichever
[05:52] <Fujitsu> And, yeah. Anything else is just silly.
[05:52] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, yes thats in the spec
[05:52] <Hobbsee> oh good ;P
[05:53] <Fujitsu> What do people here think of Seveas' software channel spec?
[05:53] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, i'm not in favor of everyone and their brother putting .gnupg keys on a build farm, its ment for builds and testing , not making redistributable debs , so really there is no reason to sign it as the source can be uploaded from a local machine once its "fixed"
[05:53] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, i havent had a chance to read it
[05:54] <LaserJock> debsign -r?
[05:54] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, but yea if it IS to be signed debsign is definately the way to go
[05:54] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, signs .changes over SSH.
[05:54] <imbrandon> LaserJock, a way of signing a deb on a remote machine without putting your secret key remotely
[05:55] <LaserJock> oh nifty
[05:55] <imbrandon> like the way Fujitsu and Hobbsee sign stuff on my build machine without putting a gnupg key on there
[05:55] <imbrandon> more secure
[05:55] <imbrandon> but anyhow yea thats part of the "security" section of the spec
[05:56] <Hobbsee> Hi Sarah
[05:56] <Hobbsee> Writing this on Ubuntu/Firefox system at the airport - they have free internet kiosks here.  But the one around the corner is spattered with all the crashy-type messages you get  :(
[05:56] <Hobbsee> *NICE*
[05:56] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: well...true that.  although some people's upload speeds are very slow
[05:57] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: indeed
[05:57] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: havent seen it either.  i should, though
[05:57] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, true, it will all get worked out via the spec and bof's in mtv i'm sure
[05:57] <Hobbsee> nice
[05:57] <Hobbsee> just tell us all non-attending MOTUs waht you decide :P
[05:57] <LaserJock> hmm, the  SoftwareChannels spec is interesting
[05:57] <imbrandon> and to be honest if i can get some contract work to help me pay for it even if canonical dosent sponsor it I will
[05:58] <imbrandon> anyone got any ? heheh
[05:58] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, it'll be interesting to see what comes of it, as it is a very big change.
[05:58] <LaserJock> well, it could be fairly trivial I think
[05:58] <LaserJock> for a basic implementation of some of the features
[05:59] <Fujitsu> Trivial yes, but also a big change.
[05:59] <LaserJock> having .deb packages install sources.list files to /etc/apt/sources.d/
[05:59] <imbrandon> has anyone checked if the hotel we are at in mtv has wifi / broadband  ?
[05:59] <Fujitsu> A very very good idea, but it diverges from Debian in a potentially nasty way.
[05:59] <LaserJock> hehe
[05:59] <LaserJock> all of Mountain View has wifi
[05:59] <LaserJock> Google did it
[05:59] <imbrandon> nice
[06:00] <LaserJock> although we aren't techincally staying in Moutain View I don't think :/
[06:00] <LaserJock> hmm
[06:02] <imbrandon> LaserJock, yea i'm wondering how we're gonna fit all this into a weeks time
[06:02] <imbrandon> seems alot more this time than paris
[06:02] <LaserJock> we aren't :-)
[06:02] <LaserJock> we didn't get to quite a few of the specs in Paris
[06:02] <imbrandon> i noticed alot of "outsiders" are comming this time too from intel and google
[06:02] <LaserJock> yes
[06:03] <LaserJock> I think Mark wanted to call in the experts :-)
[06:03] <imbrandon> one thing i dident like to see but it will work out i think is some people are only there for the forums
[06:03] <imbrandon> i thought it was more a technical week but .....
[06:03] <imbrandon> well i'll shush now
[06:04] <LaserJock> well it is
[06:04] <LaserJock> we had it in Paris too
[06:04] <LaserJock> it's an attempt to keep the forums from imploding, IMO
[06:04] <imbrandon> lol
[06:04] <jldugger> maybe it should implode ;)
[06:05] <imbrandon> i have been chastizing people on LP and the mail list for linking to the foruim about a topic and not giving a summary, if i wanted to read the forums i would
[06:05] <LaserJock> well, they almost died around that time
[06:05] <imbrandon> gah, nvm i'm gonna get OT here
[06:05] <imbrandon> heya jldugger
[06:05] <jldugger> hey
[06:06] <LaserJock> well, I was in on some of the BOFs with the forum guy
[06:06] <LaserJock> there was one especially interesting one where we discussed LP's support tracker
[06:06] <imbrandon> jldugger, dude someone thats gonna be at ITEC needs to come pick those ubuntu cd's from my house, i keep mailing the list and telling them in the irc room but no one listens
[06:06] <jldugger> on the other hand, you don't want a gentoo-wiki type situation
[06:06] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: yeah, but hopefully that whole thing will get better
[06:06] <jldugger> imbrandon, im two hours away from KC
[06:06] <imbrandon> jldugger, crap thats right
[06:07] <jldugger> imbrandon, my participation in #kclug is like auxiliery member ;)
[06:07] <imbrandon> they are gonna wait till the last minute and expect me to be there with the cd's and i have told them for WEEKS to come get them
[06:07] <imbrandon> that i couldent make ITEC
[06:07] <jldugger> put it on the ML
[06:07] <imbrandon> so i have 500 ubuntu/kubuntu cd's sitting here
[06:07] <jldugger> make up an excuse to get someone to pick em up early ;)
[06:08] <jldugger> jesus
[06:08] <imbrandon> jldugger, i did about 6 times litterly
[06:08] <imbrandon> no one responded
[06:08] <jldugger> personally, i think its wierd for kclug to attend a trade show as a vendor
[06:09] <imbrandon> me too, but i said i would get the cd's and did
[06:09] <imbrandon> but now its like ummm common guys get it togather
[06:10] <jldugger> imbrandon, you put something in motion last night reguarding wacom-tools -- was there anything i needed to look at today?
[06:10] <imbrandon> jldugger, ahh right, i totaly forgot, give me a sec
[06:12] <jldugger> reguarding the forums stuff, gentoo has a somewhat similar situation -- gentoo-wiki.org is owned and operated outside the gentoo project, and apparently its the cause of a lot of users fowling their systems up
[06:14] <imbrandon> jldugger, well the forums are run by us , its just honestly fragmented community
[06:14] <imbrandon> there are those that use LP/IRC/MailingList and those that use the Forums, with only a few crossovers
[06:14] <jldugger> i dont really use the mailing list
[06:16] <jldugger> but i can see why the forums are popular with a certain subset.
[06:40] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I don't know if I'd exactly say the forums are run by us
[06:40] <LaserJock> ;-)
[06:42] <imbrandon> well run by the "official" community
[06:43] <imbrandon> i guess
[06:43] <LaserJock> I wouldn't even say that
[06:43] <LaserJock> it's hosted on canonical machines, that's pretty close to the extent of it
[06:43] <LaserJock> it's getting a little better though I think
[06:44] <zakame> hi all
[06:45] <LaserJock> hi zakame
[06:45] <micahcowan> What's up with REVU being down?
[06:45] <crimsun> dist-upgrade to Dapper.
[06:45] <zakame> yo LaserJock
[06:46] <imbrandon> heya zakame
[06:46] <zakame> dist-upgrade
[06:47] <zakame> yo imbrandon
[06:48] <micahcowan> REVU (and all of tauware.de) seems to be unreachable for at least the past 24 hours...
[06:48] <micahcowan> Hm, except the wiki.
[06:49] <zakame> well tiber did need that update ;) right?
[06:50] <imbrandon> and since its a server it probably wont need it for anopther 5 years ;)
[06:50] <Toadstool> ok, started a piupart on the whole universe
[06:50] <minghua> I like some moves the forum recently did
[06:51] <zakame> Toadstool: setting it on fire? :)
[06:51] <Toadstool> hope I did not make any mistake 'cause it is going to take ages :)
[06:51] <zakame> minghua: ooh, what move?
[06:51] <minghua> but still don't like the forum enough to go there often, I suppose
[06:52] <minghua> zakame: like move the edgy sub-forum to support category, and completely nuke the development category
[06:52] <zakame> ah
[06:52] <jldugger> the only time people go the forums is when they have a problem ;)
[06:52] <micahcowan> Is anyone able to reach tiber? I'm hoping it might just be the route from my network... ge2-edge.mia.infolink.com reports no-route-to-host...
[06:53] <zakame> micahcowan: don't bother, it is indeed down
[06:53] <imbrandon> micahcowan, NO we said its is down right now
[06:53] <Toadstool> micahcowan: tiber did not survive the reboot after a kernel update
[06:53] <micahcowan> imbrandon, ah, I guess I didn't understand that from what was said, then.
[06:54] <Toadstool> hmm looks like my piupart thing is working... great! :)
[06:54] <micahcowan> If it's likely to be down for a bit, adjusting the topic might be helpful (first place I checked)
[06:55] <minghua> micahcowan has a point, if not that our topic is 3 or 4 characters from overflow...
[06:55] <minghua> s/if/if only/ ?
[06:55] <minghua> damn grammar
[08:12] <minghua> Hmm, dapper's pbuilder doesn't recognize edgy as a distribution name, bugger.
[08:13] <imbrandon> no you have yo install the edgy debootstarp for it to work
[08:13] <imbrandon> on dapper
[08:14] <imbrandon> elkbuntu, ps about the blog and surveys thing , i could have told you that hehe i get well over 2000 hits a day from planet.u.c ;)
[08:14] <imbrandon> ayhow gnight folks
[08:14] <elkbuntu> imbrandon, im not used to being seen ;)
[08:14] <minghua> imbrandon: I'll try dist-upgrade from a dapper chroot
[08:15] <imbrandon> ;)
[08:19] <minghua> good... no text editor whatsoever in a buildd chroot
[08:22] <imbrandon> vi
[08:24] <imbrandon> wow i guess s/2000/10000 http://federation.imbrandon.com/ss_stats1.png
[08:28] <zakame> hehe
[08:29] <minghua> imbrandon: no vi, no nano, not even ed
[08:31] <minghua> okay, sed to the rescue, dist-upgrade seems to be working well
[08:34] <imbrandon> minghua, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26972/
[08:35] <imbrandon> vi is bootstraped in default
[08:35] <minghua> imbrandon: thanks, but as I've said, mine is dapper chroot, and I used --variant=buildd for bootstrap
[08:36] <minghua> I suspect yours is a general bootstrapped chroot
[08:37] <imbrandon> nope pbuilders use the buildd variant and here is a dapper one
[08:37] <imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26973/
[08:37] <imbrandon> same thing diffrent version
[08:38] <imbrandon> anyhow , off to sleep
[08:39] <Fujitsu> You use that theme!?
[08:40] <minghua> good night imbrandon
[08:41] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, i /made/ that theme ;)
[08:41] <imbrandon> lol
[08:41] <Fujitsu> Yuck.
[08:42] <imbrandon> just becosue i dont like their os dosent mean i dont like the way it looks or some things about it:0 but i've been over this 1000 times, and i'm tired ;)
[08:42] <imbrandon> thats the beuity of linux , choice heh
[08:42] <imbrandon> gah
[08:43] <imbrandon> see missspelling worse than normal
[09:12] <minghua> the upload is still to ftp://upload.ubuntu.com, right?
[09:13] <Q-FUNK> morning!
[09:13] <imbrandon> minghua, yes
[09:13] <minghua> imbrandon: thanks!  (and you should go to bed :-)
[09:13] <imbrandon> lol i know
[09:14] <imbrandon> getting revu-tools configured on my public"ish" build box
[09:14] <imbrandon> minghua, well we are in a freeze did you gat an OK ?
[09:14] <minghua> imbrandon: unmet dep fix
[09:14] <imbrandon> minghua, read the last sentance in the topic ;)
[09:14] <minghua> imbrandon: ajmitch gave a pre-approval
[09:15] <imbrandon> k
[09:15] <imbrandon> ;)
[09:15] <imbrandon> just makin sure
[09:15] <minghua> and ajmitch said upload _then_ ping anyway ;-)
[09:16] <imbrandon> wow that seems odd but ok
[09:16] <imbrandon> ;)
[09:18] <minghua> damn, forgot to use --distribution edgy
[09:23] <minghua> ajmitch: scim-uim 0.1.4-1build1 uploaded, fixing bug #65478, please approve, thanks
[09:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65478 in scim-uim "[UNMETDEPS]  scim-uim has unmet dependencies" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65478
[09:56] <Fujitsu> Any DDs around?
[09:57] <lucas> depends on your question
[09:57] <Fujitsu> I've got a new soundconverter package.
[09:58] <Fujitsu> So I ideally need somebody to upload it.
[10:00] <siretart> Fujitsu: try in #debian-mentors ;)
[10:00] <Fujitsu> Pfft, that'd make sense.
[11:16] <siretart> reboot request for tiber sent. waiting for reply...
[11:36] <Tonio_> hi
[11:44] <shawarma> revu is back! Wheeee...
[12:29] <herzi> good morning dudes
[12:48] <shawarma> Have any of you guys ever been in Mountain View?
[01:01] <mnepton> shawarma: years ago, yes
[01:04] <siretart> okay. tiber is online again, but with 2.6.12 kernel, most probably because of bug #48184
[01:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48184 in linux-source-2.6.15 "[regression]  Fails to detect ethernet card (VT6105 via-rhine)" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48184
[01:06] <shawarma> mnepton: Is it like an actual city where people live or is it like an industrial area of sorts?
[01:07] <shawarma> mnepton: I'm considering going despite not getting sponsored and I'm curious how much of a hassle it's going to be to get something to eat..
[01:08] <shawarma> mnepton: Hmm... although there's probably going to be a *lot* of pizza places in that kind of area..
[01:09] <shawarma> I just still remember that ridiculous small village near Paris where the last summit was held... Now *that* was a hassle.
[01:09] <Fujitsu> siretart, is it a commercially hosted machine?
[01:10] <siretart> Fujitsu: yes
[01:10] <Fujitsu> ServerPronto?
[01:11] <siretart> yes
[01:11] <Fujitsu> Yeah, that caused some big issues when a Dapper upgrade was performed on Mekong (the server behind about 5 LoCo teams).
[01:12] <siretart> Fujitsu: how did you solve the issue?
[01:12] <Fujitsu> siretart, still running .12.
[01:13] <siretart> fabolous :/
[01:13] <Fujitsu> Yeah.\
[01:14] <Fujitsu> Downtime of 3 or 4 days because communication between ServerPronto and the official contact person was terrible.
[01:15] <siretart> Fujitsu: then we are lucky, tiber was 'only' 2 days offline :)
[01:16] <Fujitsu> 4 days without my primary email address was... unpleasant :S
[01:16] <siretart> oh
[01:45] <sivang> morning
[01:46] <jsgotangco> hi!
[01:47] <sivang> hi jsgotangco , what's up?
[01:47] <jsgotangco> just finished dinner  heh
[02:05] <sivang> jsgotangco: what's on the plate for today? :)
[02:06] <jsgotangco> sivang: unfortunately its not kosher :/
[02:07] <jsgotangco> sivang: interesting spec though ;)
[02:07] <sivang> hehe
[02:07] <sivang> jsgotangco: :-)
[02:07] <sivang> the uninterrupted video playback
[02:07] <sivang> ?
[02:08] <jsgotangco> yeah
[02:08] <sivang> jsgotangco: I do wonder who decided that some foods are and some are not, or at least have the rationale behind it :-)
[02:08] <sivang> jsgotangco: should have had a spec for that
[02:08] <jsgotangco> its an real user case scenario
[02:08] <sivang> ah, indeed.
[02:09] <jsgotangco> on some branded laptops, they actually have special power management software for that
[02:09] <sivang> me and my gf use the machine to watch dvds, and I recently had to do a photo presentation of my trip to the UK
[02:09] <sivang> and g-p-m and IM got in the way, g-p-m decided the machine is idle and lowered the brightness,
[02:10] <sivang> i-m kept bugging us with stupid messages from family member that could have waited :)
[02:10] <sivang> etc..
[02:10] <sivang> so it is a real use case :)
[02:10] <jsgotangco> yeah if i remember it right on a toshiba windows laptop, the settings aren't that fancy and just disables stuff so it won't get in the way of dvd playback
[02:11] <jsgotangco> but can be done with a keyboard shortcut
[02:11] <sivang> also, imagine yourself sitting in a presentation in a hall, and suddenly some odd looking popups is asking you to reboot your machine, do you want your investors to see that? :) or your students?
[02:11] <sivang> jsgotangco: right, so we should aim at least for that
[02:11] <sivang> jsgotangco: see followup to t u on the ML
[02:12] <sivang> anyway, breakfast and sleep recovery now :)
[02:12] <jsgotangco> it seems dbus has been the magical hiway of anything lately
[02:14] <StevenK> sivang: I've had that happen with Windows.
[02:15] <StevenK> "Updates have been installed. I'm going to reboot in 5 minutes." You couldn't cancel it, you could only postpone it by another five minutes.
[02:29] <zakame> hi all!
[02:30] <highvoltage> hey zakame!!
[02:31] <sivang> StevenK: indeed, LOL
[02:34] <zakame> yo highvoltage !! =D
[02:34] <highvoltage> hehe :)
[02:34] <zakame> Hobbsee: what missed?
[02:35] <Hobbsee> zakame: i dont know.  if i did, i wouldnt be asking :P
[02:36] <highvoltage> Hobbsee: don't worry, there are no wild parties here while you are away
[02:36] <Hobbsee> awww...pity
[02:37] <zakame> highvoltage: there was one at my place some weeks ago, during my birthday :p
[02:38] <highvoltage> zakame: ah yes, when you turned hex(22)
[02:38] <zakame> yeah
[02:38] <highvoltage> i mean, 16 in hex :)
[02:39] <zakame> well actually it was more of my cousin's b-day bash, she's a day earlier than me, but a couple of years older
[02:46] <pirast> who do i have to subscribe if it's a reupload?
[02:46] <pirast> Hobbsee: hi.. i subscribed you to 2 bug reports.. it would be great if you could check & merge the debdiffs into ubuntu
[02:49] <Hobbsee> pirast: there's a group called ubuntu-universe-sponsors - subscribe them
[02:50] <pirast> hobbsee, okay, sorry for bugging :-)
[02:50] <Hobbsee> pirast: it's fine :)
[02:52] <pirast> hobbsee, shall i subscribe them to reupload bugs, too?
[02:53] <Hobbsee> pirast: yeah
[02:53] <Hobbsee> pirast: wait, what do you mean by reupload?  does it involve a debdiff?
[02:54] <pirast> hobbsee, no
[02:55] <pirast> it just has to be rebuilt
[02:55] <Hobbsee> pirast: got an example?
[02:55] <pirast> sure
[02:55] <pirast> bug 65463
[02:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65463 in caudium "[REUPLOAD]  [UNMETDEPS]  caudium has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65463
[02:55] <pirast> someone said that when a package has to be rebuillt it is just reuploaded to the archive.
[02:56] <Hobbsee> pirast: oh yeah.  yes, that does
[02:57] <pirast> hobbsee, so i have to subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors?
[02:58] <Hobbsee> pirast: yep.  i'm doing caudium now.
[02:58] <Hobbsee> pirast: if you've just got rebuilds, poke me with the bug numbers in -bugs, and i'll upload them while i munch
[02:58] <pirast> hobbsee, k, thanks :-)
[03:00] <pirast> hobbsee, lol... i wrote "sarah is going to reupload the package".. sorry, im not a native english speaker :-)
[03:00] <pirast> its like saying the weather is going to be great :-P
[03:01] <StevenK> pirast: Careful. Hobbsee might rain on your uploads.
[03:01] <Hobbsee> it's fine
[03:02] <Hobbsee> seeing as debian's fixes multiple FTBFS
[03:02] <StevenK> Yay me.
[03:02] <pirast> stevenk, lol!
[03:02] <pirast> hobbsee, okay
[03:07] <asabil> hi all
[03:07] <asabil> anyone willing to make a .deb package for python-gtkglext ?
[03:08] <Hobbsee> !info python-gtkglext
[03:08] <ubotu> Package python-gtkglext does not exist in any distro I know
[03:09] <asabil> so ?
[03:09] <Hobbsee> no
[03:10] <Hobbsee> i just thought it was already ther
[03:10] <Hobbsee> e
[03:10] <asabil> so can I ask for one ?
[03:10] <Hobbsee> you can ask, i dont think anyone will do it
[03:10] <asabil> I tried to tweak the one provided by the glchess developper
[03:11] <asabil> :/
[03:32] <pirast> will we remove mozilla in edgy+1 like debian does?
[03:40] <sivang> how do I list all the binary packages coming out of a single source?
[03:40] <StevenK> grep ^Package debian/control ?
[03:40] <sivang> StevenK: and without getting the source? :)
[03:41] <Hobbsee> sivang: apt-cache showsrc foo
[03:41] <StevenK> Yeah, that.
[03:41] <sivang> right, thanks
[03:41] <Hobbsee> or apt-cache show foo | grep Binary
[03:41] <Hobbsee> if you prefer
[03:41] <sivang> i have a memory loss problem
[03:41] <sivang> ;-)
[03:41] <Hobbsee> :P
[03:48] <sivang> normally, when there are unmetdeps, how do we find out if a package has been replaced by another one and we need to change depends etc? I see dpkg not laways says which packages has been replaced by which
[03:49] <Hobbsee> sivang: either it says, or employ guesswork.  also checking debian helps with that
[03:49] <Hobbsee> i havent found a quicker way
[03:51] <sivang> Hobbsee: yes, just attempting to install on a sid chroot really helps
[03:51] <sivang> I thought if there is a better way :)
[03:51] <siretart> pirast: this hasn't been decided yet
[03:51] <Hobbsee> sivang: packages.debian.org :P
[03:53] <sivang> Hobbsee: the chroot is faster :)
[03:53] <Hobbsee> depends how fast the chroot is :P
[03:54] <sivang> better then my broken fingers searchign through p.d.o :-p
[03:54] <sivang> nice, debtags-edit seems to just require a rebuild
[04:01] <herzi> is it known that password recovery doesn't work on the revu site right now?
[04:15] <pirast> herzi, what does not work?
[04:16] <herzi> i get this line as the last one
[04:16] <herzi> Now paste the text below, and enter EOT<return>
[04:17] <pirast> ajmitch helped me when I had a similar issue...
[04:27] <pirast> herzi, just try to catch him later
[04:27] <ivoks> hi all
[04:28] <pirast> hi ivoks
[04:36] <PSUSI> how can you clean spam off a bug on launchpad?
[04:36] <azeem> PSUSI: try asking in #launchpad, maybe
[04:37] <PSUSI> heh, didn't realize it had its own channel
[04:46] <pirast> siviang, hi..
[04:47] <sivang> hi pirast
[04:47] <pirast> sivang, i parallally chatted with infinity about bug 2253 by chance..
[04:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2253 in fpc "fpc needs bootstrapping on buildds" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2253
[04:48] <sivang> I just chatted to slomo about this :)
[04:48] <pirast> sivang, great :-P
[04:48] <sivang> Adam told me some love needed to be put up into fpc on PPC, which would help him bootstrap
[04:48] <pirast> yeah.. :-(
[04:48] <sivang> I don't owe such an arch
[04:48] <pirast> i dont, either..
[04:49] <pirast> but the way that it is now it breaks more..
[04:49] <sivang> I just can't really understand nor did I Have the time to check why the user-he package depends on it, but well :-)
[04:50] <pirast> sivang, i had time: 63647
[04:50] <pirast> look at my first reply there
[04:50] <sivang> malone #63647
[04:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63647 in user-he "[UNMETDEPS]  Edgy, user-he, Broken dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63647
[04:50] <pirast> at that post i didnt yet understand that fpc  needs debootstrapping
[04:52] <sivang> pirast: right, thanks for the bug
[04:52] <sivang> I see it now
[04:52] <sivang> well, they should have used another language :-p
[04:52] <sivang> not so exotic ones
[04:52] <pirast> yeah.. there is a huge bunch of packages blocked by this..
[04:52] <sivang> anyway, not an excuse, fpc shouldprobably be fixed for the good of the universe :)
[04:54] <pirast> sivang, so what shall we do?
[04:55] <pirast> ask infinity to bootstrap everything excepting powerpc?
[04:55] <sivang> I am not sure this can be done
[04:55] <sivang> or if it can, desired
[04:55] <sivang> slomo: you have an idea?
[04:56] <slomo> i see no reason why it shouldn't be possible
[04:56] <slomo> but no idea about the ppc problem
[04:56] <pirast> thanks
[04:56] <sivang> crimsun: could it be that mxv is not published in debian sid?
[04:57] <slomo> sivang: http://packages.qa.debian.org/m/mxv.html
[04:57] <giskard> hello slomo :)
[04:58] <slomo> hi giskard
[04:59] <sivang> hey giskard
[04:59] <sivang> slomo: thanks :)
[04:59] <giskard> hello sivang :)
[05:00] <sivang> slomo: where can I find the reason for the package being removed?
[05:00] <slomo> in the bugreport about the removal
[05:01] <pirast> sivang, so shall I ask infinity to bootstrap everything excepting powerpc?
[05:02] <zul> /win 13
[05:02] <sivang> pirast: already did
[05:02] <sivang> pirast: he will do it when he wakes up
[05:02] <sivang> he had to go to sleep now, at last
[05:02] <pirast> sivang, great.. thanks
[05:03] <sivang> pirast: no problem, its all fun.
[05:03] <pirast> sivang, yeah..
[05:06] <pirast> sivang, regarding your reply to bug 63647: you also have to sync user-he from debian because of the firefox dependency.. but as far as i know there were only changes made to the debian directory.
[05:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63647 in user-he "[UNMETDEPS]  Edgy, user-he, Broken dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63647
[05:09] <sivang> pirast: for user-he or for -locale-he ?
[05:09] <sivang> pirast: (e.g. debian dir changes)
[05:10] <pirast> sivang, user-he
[05:11] <sivang> pirast: okay, so two syncs then
[05:11] <sivang> (we had no ubuntu changes anyways)
[05:11] <pirast> sivang, whats the other sync about?
[05:11] <sivang> does anybody know what happened to ivtools-interviews in edgy? did it got removed or someting?
[05:11] <sivang> pirast: sorry, I mean, one sync for moz-locale-he, and one for user-he
[05:12] <sivang> pirast: that what you meant right?
[05:13] <pirast> sivang, if you mean firefox-locale-he :-)
[05:13] <pirast> it does not have to be synced, the new debian package does not have it in it's build depends
[05:13] <sivang> pirast: yes
[05:14] <sivang> pirast: ah, even better then
[05:14] <sivang> pirast: so only user-he from debian, thanks
[05:14] <pirast> sivang, np and thanks, too :-)
[05:14] <sivang> pirast: :)
[06:19] <chantra_> hi, as anybody ran into troubles with /tmp directory lately?
[06:31] <visik7> hi
[06:31] <visik7> I've a package that genereate libs and binary
[06:31] <visik7> how can I handle the packaging ?
[06:37] <lotusleaf> "I have the power!"
[06:38] <pef> hello
[07:33] <newz2000> hello all, working with siretart I'm trying to diagnose kernel problems on the server 'tiber' where revu is located.
[07:33] <newz2000> I'll need to rebooot this server soon. Anyone in there? I'll wait about 15 min and then plan my reboot.
[07:34] <newz2000> Server will be down hopefully only about 10 min, but a second reboot may be needed, so wait for my word to go back in.
[07:39] <nixternal> 5 minutes down, 5 to go ;)
[07:39] <_MMA_> Hows it goin LaserJock?
[07:40] <LaserJock> oh, it's going
[07:40] <_MMA_> Did you talk to System76?
[07:40] <LaserJock> trying to figure out if I'm missing any meetings right now :-)
[07:40] <LaserJock> not yet, I think I'll do that today
[07:40] <newz2000> nixternal: I haven't rebooted yet. I'm still waiting for my 15 min warning to expire without objections.
[07:40] <nixternal> ahh
[07:40] <nixternal> hehe
[07:41] <nixternal> had to have some fun with it
[07:41] <LaserJock> imbrandon's gotten some more stuff on our build farm
[07:41] <LaserJock> what's going down?
[07:41] <_MMA_> Not too much.
[07:41] <newz2000> LaserJock: tiber server (where revu)
[07:42] <LaserJock> newz2000: ah, for the dapper upgrade?
[07:42] <newz2000> yes
[07:44] <newz2000> ok, tiber goes down in 5 min.
[07:46] <lotusleaf> timber, his arms wide
[07:46] <newz2000> and fingers crossed. ;D
[08:06] <newz2000> well, server didn't reboot on its own, so I'm opening a reboot ticket. For all of those holding their breath to get back into Tiber, have a nice sleep, because you'll pass out before it's back up.
[08:08] <ivoks> ?
[08:11] <pirast> does anyone have time to apply to debdiffs that add .desktop entries?
[08:16] <LaserJock> at this point in the release I don't think so
[08:20] <pirast> LaserJock, aren't patches still allowed?
[08:21] <LaserJock> they have to go through an exception process
[08:21] <LaserJock> and I don't think .desktop files are high enough priority to be accepted
[08:21] <pirast> LaserJock, every little patch also?
[08:21] <LaserJock> yes
[08:21] <pirast> argh.
[08:21] <LaserJock> we are in Release Candidate Freeze
[08:21] <LaserJock> yes
[08:22] <LaserJock> it was kinda sudden, I wasn't expecting it
[08:22] <zul> uh didnt you check the calendar?
[08:22] <jldugger> edgy certainly will feel shorter since dapper was delayed
[08:22] <pirast> LaserJock, when did it begin? i do not see it there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule
[08:24] <LaserJock> zul: no, I did not expect Release Candidate Freeze to mean what it does for Edgy
[08:24] <LaserJock> zul: it hasn't in the past
[08:24] <zul> ah
[08:25] <LaserJock> pirast: it was announced on the mailing lists (ubuntu-devel-announce probably)
[08:25] <pirast> LaserJock, ok, i will subscribe there
[08:25] <pirast> to not miss further freezes
[08:25] <LaserJock> this is the most conservative release I've seen in terms of Freezes that I've seen so far
[08:39] <highvoltage> hey LaserJock
[08:39] <highvoltage> I saw your wiki subpage on the motu stuff today
[08:40] <pirast> in my debdiff's there are sometimes config.* entrys.. i think that they were caused by debuild.. how can i prevent them of being in my debdiffs?
[08:40] <LaserJock> highvoltage: ah, yeah
[08:40] <highvoltage> I've been learning some more packaging stuff so hopefully by the end of december I could be a motu too.
[08:40] <LaserJock> pirast: filterdiff
[08:41] <pirast> LaserJock: thanks again :-)
[08:42] <LaserJock> np
[08:46] <Sp4rKY> hi
[08:46] <Sp4rKY> does revu.tauware.de is down ?
[08:46] <Sp4rKY> hi raphink
[08:46] <Sp4rKY> i'm talking with one of the audacious dev
[08:47] <Sp4rKY> "cause i'd tried to package it
[08:47] <Sp4rKY> but i lost all my packaging work, so i hope it is on revu
[08:48] <bhale> revu is down for maintainence
[08:48] <Sp4rKY> ok
[08:52] <pirast> does ubuntu have an autosync to debian multimedia?
[08:52] <bhale> no.
[08:52] <pirast> bhale, k...
[08:52] <bhale> there are no autosyncs
[08:52] <bhale> since some weeks ago
[08:52] <bhale> months
[08:53] <pirast> bhale, I know that Edgy is freezed :-) But what is about Edgy+1? Will it have new packages from Debian Multimedia?
[08:53] <LaserJock> bhale: what's with the nick?
[08:53] <dholbach> good night
[08:53] <bhale> LaserJock: sigh
[08:53] <pirast> night
[08:53] <bhale> LaserJock: nothing is "with" it
[08:54] <zul> pirast: most likely
[08:54] <bhale> pirast: they could, but not auto
[08:54] <pirast> :-(
[08:54] <pirast> so i have to file sync requests when there are new versions in debian multimedia :-(
[08:55] <LaserJock> bhale: but what happened to tseng? :(
[08:55] <bhale> LaserJock: its gone
[08:56] <bhale> sorry
[08:56] <sivang> slomo: do you have a minute?
[08:56] <bhale> i dont know why everyone is taking it so hard
[08:56] <slomo> yes
[08:56] <LaserJock> well, we get used to it I suppose
[08:56] <sivang> bhale: not taking this hard, just got used to it :)
[08:56] <LaserJock> I just wondered, I've thought of changing mine too
[08:56] <bhale> sivang: rock
[08:56] <bhale> LaserJock: you should
[08:57] <bhale> its not as hard as you think
[08:57] <LaserJock> as it takes a while for people to relate my name to my nick
[08:57] <sivang> bhale is easier to pronounce :)
[08:57] <sivang> like "Hey *B* hale, whassup?"
[08:57] <sivang> it's groovier
[08:57] <sivang> slomo: anyways :)
[08:57] <sivang> slomo: I'm trying to fix fixedpoint (bin: python-fixed point)
[08:57] <bhale> sivan *G*
[08:58] <slomo> sivang: ok, what's the problem with it? :)
[08:58] <sivang> slomo: I dropped versioned dependency on python2.3-dev, building is fine,
[08:58] <sivang> slomo: still when I try to install it, there seem to be python2.3 dependnecies (unmet dep on 2.3)
[08:59] <sivang> slomo: I can't seem to find where the culprit lies, it's all subtvars dependencies anyways.
[08:59] <sivang> oh crap
[08:59] <sivang> Depends: python2.3
[08:59] <sivang> I am going blind :)
[09:00] <slomo> ok ;)
[09:00] <sivang> slomo: wait, it's not over yet, even if this is fixed to depend only on python or python2.4 as we have, there's still:
[09:00] <sivang> Conflicts: python2.3-fixedpoint
[09:00] <sivang> Replaces: python2.3-fixedpoint
[09:01] <sivang> should I just make those without version as per new python policy? also, in the changelog it says that it already conforms to it, and indeed has pycentral on its dependencies.
[09:01] <slomo> no, the conflicts/replaces are still necessary as it conflicts/replaces the old versions
[09:02] <sivang> ah okay, good to know
[09:02] <sivang> and should I touch this:
[09:02] <sivang> XB-Python-Version: 2.3
[09:02] <sivang> ?
[09:02] <sivang> oh hell
[09:03] <sivang> Description: A fixed point math object for python [dummy package]
[09:03] <sivang>  This module provides a fixed point math object for python for monetary-
[09:03] <sivang>  applications. This module is not needed for python2.4 and later versions-
[09:03] <sivang>  because they provide a built-in decimal module.
[09:03] <sivang> :-D
[09:11] <LaserJock> darn, today apt want's to autoremove everything :/
[09:15] <pirast> night
[09:19] <sivang> where is her holbach when I need him? :p
[09:19] <bhale> herr
[09:20] <pirast> sivang, he went sleeping: <dholbach> good night
[09:20] <pirast> and i do now, too..
[09:20] <pirast> night
[09:20] <sivang> ah, oopss, hehe
[09:20] <sivang> good night to you folks, in absentia
[09:27] <geser> has someone here some time to upload three debdiffs fixing unmetdeps?
[10:14] <crimsun> geser: bug #s?
[10:15] <Bensin> Is this the right place to report a problem with installing a package in the universe repository?
[10:16] <crimsun> technically, no. Use https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug
[10:16] <crimsun> In reality, you can mention it in addition to filing a bug.
[10:18] <Bensin> crimsun: OK. Thanks. I'll do that then. I thought launchpad was just for reporting problems with officially supported software.
[10:18] <crimsun> for all Ubuntu software.
[10:18] <ajmitch> morning
[10:18] <crimsun> (it's acceptable to tell us what's uninstallable, certainly)
[10:19] <crimsun> 'morning, ajmitch
[10:19] <Bensin> crimsun: have a problem with installing vmware-player.
[10:20] <Bensin> on a completely newly installed ubuntu.
[10:21] <sivang> ajmitch: morning
[10:21] <crimsun> sivang: sorry, just read backscroll for your question, though it seems Sebastian answered it
[10:22] <crimsun> (it's not in Sid, no. Is Edgy's broken?)
[10:30] <geser> crimsun: bug 65411, bug 65405, bug  65347 and bug 65350 (for lophyte)
[10:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65411 in python-omniorb2 "[UNMETDEPS]  python-omniorb2 has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65411
[10:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65405 in python-pyrss2gen "[UNMETDEPS]  python-pyrss2gen has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65405
[10:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65347 in quixote "[UNMETDEPS]  quixote has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65347
[10:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65350 in projectmanager.app "[UNMETDEPS]  projectmanager.app has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65350
[10:31] <geser> crimsun: could you also ACK bug 65417?
[10:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65417 in mknfonts.tool "[UNMETDEPS] [Sync Request]  mknfonts.tool (0.5-6) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65417
[10:34] <crimsun> geser: it didn't really need an ack, but I gave one anyway (sivang is a member of ubuntu-dev)
[10:36] <mr_pouit> a little question : is it normal for a package to be in the "dependency wait" state, if the dependency already exists ?(https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/248162)
[10:36] <ivoks> i'm shocked how beryl works :)
[10:38] <crimsun> mr_pouit: that's because idjc's debian/control:Build-Depends is incorrect. idjc's source is in universe, whereas liblame-dev is in multiverse. A universe source package cannot build-depend on a binary package in multiverse.
[10:39] <crimsun> (just as a main source package cannot build-depend on a binary package in universe or multiverse)
[10:39] <geser> crimsun: I was used to get an ACK after a sync request not before
[10:41] <mr_pouit> crimsun, ah, thanks for the explanation. So what should (can ?) I do ?
[10:41] <crimsun> mr_pouit: fix idjc's debian/control:Build-Depends and provide a debdiff.
[10:42] <ajmitch> ivoks: why so?
[10:43] <ivoks> ajmitch: it's perfect :)
[10:43] <ajmitch> hardly..
[10:44] <ivoks> well, on my 945 i see no problems
[10:44] <mr_pouit> crimsun, ok
[10:47] <geser> crimsun: if idjc build-depend on a multiverse package shouldn't it be moved into multiverse?
[10:50] <crimsun> geser: if one intends it to build with both liblame-dev and libfaad2-dev build-deps, yes
[10:51] <crimsun> alternately, of course, remove compile-time support for both mp3 and aac, and it can remain in universe
[11:01] <lophyte> geser: what were those bugs about?
[11:02] <lophyte> oh, nm
[11:02] <lophyte> projectmanager.app
[11:02] <mr_pouit> crimsun, ok, I removed  liblame-dev and libfaad2-dev, and it still buils in a pbuilder. The last question: should I add a changelog entry and increment the version number ?
[11:03] <crimsun> mr_pouit: yes
[11:03] <mr_pouit> ok
[11:03] <superm1> crimsun, would you be able to take a look at / upload bug 65790 by chance?
[11:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65790 in mythtv "Mytharchive crashes due to buggy mythreplex utility" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65790
[11:03] <lophyte> superm1: no box today either, btw
[11:04] <superm1> lophyte, sounds like your friend is pulling a fast one on you.  "3 day shipping". ;)
[11:04] <lophyte> not that I know of.. they might've came while I was out
[11:04] <lophyte> indeed... *shrug*
[11:04] <lophyte> I'll have to go check the mail
[11:04] <superm1> :)
[11:04] <lophyte> they usually leave a slip if you're not home
[11:06] <geser> lophyte: crimsun is willing to upload some debdiffs
[11:06] <Q-FUNK> 'evening
[11:06] <lophyte> geser: ahh
[11:06] <geser> and I've also mentioned your debdiff
[11:07] <lophyte> cool
[11:08] <geser> don't forget to subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to your debdiffs else they are sitting in LP until someone stumbles over them
[11:08] <lophyte> didn't I?
[11:09] <geser> not for the debdiff for projectmanager.app
[11:10] <lophyte> ack
[11:10] <lophyte> thought I did
[11:12] <geser> when the uploaded package is available from the repos you can set the bug from fix comitted to fix released
[11:24] <geser> crimsun: thanks for uploading
[11:26] <LaserJock> is 0xffff black?
[11:27] <ajmitch> white
[11:27] <ajmitch> well, #ffffff is white for html/css :)
[11:27] <ajmitch> btw, hi LaserJock & Fujitsu
[11:27] <sivang> hey ajmitch
[11:28] <Fujitsu> Hey ajmitch.
[11:28] <ajmitch> hello sivang
[11:28] <Fujitsu> Hi sivang, LaserJock.
[11:28] <LaserJock> hi Fujitsu
[11:28] <imbrandon> heya ajmitch LaserJock
[11:28] <sivang> ajmitch: re malone #65376 , I see that it's installable and importable now, I am going to close the bug / reject
[11:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65376 in pygsm "[UNMETDEPS]  pygsm has unmet dependencies (and FTBFS)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65376
[11:28] <Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.
[11:28] <LaserJock> I'm actually hacking on a program today!
[11:28] <Fujitsu> Which, LaserJock?
[11:28] <sivang> LaserJock: wow! which one?
[11:28] <LaserJock> gchemutils
[11:28] <imbrandon> hehe LaserJock
[11:28] <Fujitsu> Ooh dear.
[11:28] <ajmitch> sivang: ok, why tell me? :)
[11:28] <Fujitsu> What are you doing to it?
[11:29] <LaserJock> I'm learning some C++ along the way
[11:29] <sivang> ajmitch: I've managed to insall it, and it seems to build fine :)
[11:29] <LaserJock> I'm adding a feature to gchemtable
[11:29] <ajmitch> sivang: does it not have the python2.3-dev builddep?
[11:30] <sivang> hmm, it does, doh, but how can it build then? :)
[11:30] <ajmitch> it can't - python2.3 is removed
[11:31] <imbrandon> heya Fujitsu
[11:32] <sivang> where do I find build logs?
[11:32] <Fujitsu> sivang, on LP?
[11:32] <LaserJock> wahoo! and I just broke it :-)
[11:32] <sivang> Fujitsu: what's the url? :)
[11:33] <Fujitsu> sivang, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/package/version
[11:33] <sivang> Fujitsu: thanks
[11:33] <Fujitsu> Then click on the architecture on the right.
[11:33] <Fujitsu> Oops.
[11:33] <Fujitsu> Left.
[11:34] <sivang> ajmitch: right, but how come there are no failed build logs?
[11:34] <sivang> ajmitch: (on LP)
[11:35] <Fujitsu> sivang, it hasn't been uploaded to Edgy.
[11:35] <Fujitsu> So hasn't built since python2.3 was removed.
[11:35] <ajmitch> as Fujitsu said ^^
[11:37] <Fujitsu> siretart, thanks :) (re. bug 63948)
[11:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 63948 in mpd "creating databases fails" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63948
[11:37] <sivang> if you take a look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/pygsm
[11:38] <sivang> you see that SOyuz think that it has been uploaded to edgy on 2006-06-08
[11:38] <sivang> is Soyuz wrong?
[11:38] <Fujitsu> No.
[11:38] <Fujitsu> It was uploaded to Edgy automatically, carried from Dapper.
[11:39] <imbrandon> e.g binary uploaded, not rebuilt
[11:39] <sivang> imbrandon: thanks
[11:39] <sivang> so the binaries are just copied from the previous rlease..
[11:40] <sivang> seems not the smartest thing to do. I was sure it always gets rebuilt with each new distrorelease :)
[11:41] <ajmitch> sivang: certainly not - anytime a rebuild happens, the version number *must* change
[11:42] <ajmitch> otherwise you'd have 2 binaries with the same version, built against different toolchains & libraries
[11:42] <ajmitch> making upgrading a nightmare
[11:43] <plugwash> also if ubuntu is using the pool system then i don't think they can have more than one binary package of the same name/version in the system even if they wan't to
[11:43] <ajmitch> yep
[11:44] <sivang> I see, okay, that makes sense. but shouldn't soyuz at least provide some info that a binary was 'copied' from the previous release rather then letting me puzzled infront of missing build logs? or should I have known that?
[11:45] <sivang> and if the answer is the latter, how can I know this right away without attempting to find build logs and failing? :-)
[11:45] <geser> from the version history on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/pygsm you can see that the last upload was in hoary
[11:45] <plugwash> it seems odd to me that it would be listed as an upload to edgy at all, i'd have thought the bulk copy would be silent
[11:46] <sivang> plugwash: well, that would have helped me to remove the ambiguity just as well :)
[11:47] <sivang> geser: from the :
[11:47] <sivang> Initially uploaded to:
[11:47] <sivang> Ubuntu Hoary
[11:47] <sivang> ?
[11:47] <imbrandon> sivang, no look at the last time the version number changed ;)
[11:47] <imbrandon> that was the last upload
[11:47] <imbrandon> and rebuild
[11:48] <sivang> imbrandon: ah, doh, ajmitch noted everytime the package is rebuild the version number must change. this is the right rule to follow then :)
[11:49] <plugwash> the "every rebuild the version must change" is the reason you see binary packages with + added to the end of the version number (at least in debian)
[11:50] <superm1> plugwash, what happens when there are two rebuilds then before a new version?  two +'s?
[11:50] <geser> sivang: and here is the old buildlog http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/p/pygsm/0.1-1ubuntu1/
[11:50] <LaserJock> UTC+9.5 ? that's interesting
[11:50] <plugwash> sorry its not just + its + followed by a numer
[11:50] <superm1> oh
[11:50] <sivang> plugwash: can you think of an example?
[11:51] <imbrandon> rebuilds in ubuntu generaly get a new reversion like -XubuntuN where N is incremented
[11:53] <plugwash> sivang i'll find one gimme a min
[11:53] <sivang> imbrandon: Kamion noted that a plain rebuild, without any ubuntu changes should get buildX
[11:53] <sivang> (to ease mergers/sync afterwards)
[11:54] <sivang> hmm, the package I did all this fuss for is pygsm, which seems to not exist in debian
[11:55] <imbrandon> yea but going from 1.5.3-6ubuntu5 to 1.5.3-6buntu5-build1 is silly, it becomes 1.5.3-6ubuntu6 , BUT 1.5-3 would become 1.5-3build1 yes
[11:57] <plugwash> sorry its +b<number> not +<number>
[11:57] <plugwash> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/net/3270-common <-- there is an example of a package that has been rebuilt once for i386 but not for any of the other architectures
[11:58] <imbrandon> and that dosent happen in ubuntu, its built for all again, as we dont use binary uploads directly
[11:58] <plugwash> debian don't use binary uploads for rebuilds either anymore
[11:58] <plugwash> iirc they just have a switch somewhere that they use to tell the buildds that a package needs rebuilding
[11:59] <plugwash> and they can set it on a per architecture basis
[11:59] <sivang> imbrandon: right, all uploads are source uploads in ubuntu
[12:00] <imbrandon> sivang, yea thats the point i was making
[12:00] <plugwash> imbrandon well it makes it much easier to get self compiling compilers in
[12:00] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I believe it also makes you prove you could build it :-)
[12:00] <sivang> ah right, can relieve from having to bootstrap self contained langs
[12:00] <imbrandon> plugwash, well thats a corner case , not needed for the vast majority of packages that can be bootstraped
[12:01] <sivang> anyway, anyone have opinion on what looks to be completely deserted pygsm ?
[12:01] <imbrandon> sivang, check the rdepends and file a bug for removal
[12:01] <imbrandon> imho
[12:01] <ajmitch> oh look, root exploit in the nvidia binary driver
[12:02] <ajmitch> what a surprise
[12:02] <sivang> ajmitch: hehe
[12:02] <imbrandon> hahahahah
[12:02] <sivang> who discovered it?
[12:02] <sivang> nvidia? :)
[12:02] <ajmitch> it's a familiar bug - the same one that had the code of conduct screen taking down X
[12:02] <ajmitch> no
[12:02] <imbrandon> sony rootkit ? heh
[12:02] <ajmitch> nvidia would have silently fixed it, I'm sure
[12:02] <ajmitch> http://download2.rapid7.com/r7-0025/
[12:03] <ajmitch> the DoS listed is identical to one that has shown up a few times on malone
[12:03] <geser> sivang: pygsm seems to be also dead upstream, the last and only release was on December 27, 2003
[12:05] <sivang> geser: indeed, I am now filing a removal request
[12:05] <sivang> geser: (made sure that has no rdepends)


[01:30] <mazda01> howdy
[01:30] <stochastic> hey
[01:31] <mazda01> trying to get 11.04 freshly installed and booted and i can't seem to get to a GUI.
[01:31] <mazda01> i've attempted to use the nomodeset boot option still to no avail.
[01:32] <stochastic> mazda01 you can always install regular ubuntu and then install all the ubuntu-studio packages
[01:32] <mazda01> i have an old nvidia geforce4 MX 420 which requires the 96* version to have accelerated graphics BUT I don't really need it as my sole purpose is to use LMMS with a low latency kernel
[01:32] <stochastic> it gives you the same thing
[01:33] <mazda01> do i just set the driver to nv or vesa in my xorg.conf file using tty1 and nano to change the file?
[01:34] <stochastic> does this bug occur when you install from regular ubuntu?
[01:34] <mazda01> i tried the ubuntu-studio upgrade in my lucid lynx install and I was getting a ton of xruns.
[01:34] <stochastic> that still doesn't pertain to this bug though
[01:34] <mazda01> not sure, i haven't done an Ubuntu install for a long time. I am still using Lucid Lynx, it suits my needs.
[01:35] <stochastic> well for this fresh install bug, you need to try a few other options
[01:35] <stochastic> to help me narrow it down
[01:35] <mazda01> ok
[01:35] <stochastic> thanks
[01:36] <mazda01> to be honest I am not really interested in fixing this bug BUT just getting to a graphical user interface to I can start making music. LOL
[01:36] <mazda01> BUT, I can help with whatever you need.
[01:36] <mazda01> unfortunately it's the same machine I am on now, dual booting, so not sure how much info I can provide
[01:36] <stochastic> I'm not too interested in fixing this bug either
[01:37] <stochastic> to be honest
[01:38] <stochastic> mazda01, if you want a GUI one of the best places to troubleshoot is through the regular ubuntu help arenas
[01:38] <mazda01> then, lets not. LOL
[01:38] <stochastic> in general there is very little delta between US and U in the gui
[01:38] <mazda01> ok, yeah, I believe its just a graphics driver issue is all. On a side note what kernel do you suggest for low to no xruns?
[01:39] <stochastic> got no recommendations to make right now
[01:40] <mazda01> huh, ok. well, thanks for your time thus far.
[01:40] <ScottL> mazda01, what is your audio interface?
[01:41] <mazda01> most likely JACK. not sure what Ubuntu Studio uses as default
[01:42] <ScottL> oi, i meant what hardware
[01:42] <ScottL> but i should ask first, are you playing instruments or recording vocals?
[01:43] <ScottL> i see now you mention LMMS, so i'm guessing you are sticking with synths and sequencers then
[01:43] <ScottL> and i'm guessing you will be using the onboard sound instead of a separate audio card or audio interface?
[01:43] <ScottL> mazda01, ^^^
[01:43] <mazda01> VT82xx [HDA VIA VT82xx], device 0: ALC888 Analog [ALC888 Analog]
[01:45] <stochastic> ahh a via chipset
[01:46] <mazda01> ScottL, yes, for now onboard audio
[01:47] <ScottL> mazda01, have you ever used a PPA before?
[01:47] <mazda01> ScottL, i really just want to create drum beats and pretty simple stuff to have as background audio for my youtube video of COD gameplay.
[01:47] <mazda01> ScottL, yes
[01:48] <ScottL> ah, good...i'm not familiar with the performance of that chipset with the -generic kernel, but you might find alessio igor bogani's -lowlatency kernel very helpful
[01:48] <ScottL> you can google alessio's name and launchpad and find it
[01:51] <mazda01> ok, will look into it.
[01:51] <mazda01> i just read on other posts that the 11.04 installer in it's alpha stages wasn't installing ubuntustudio-desktop. I will install that from tty1. SO I am going now.. thanks for your help.
[01:53] <ScottL> mazda01, this intimates that you have an 11.04 disc from the alpha release, this is unwise
[01:54] <mazda01> ScottL, not true, i download the iso from this page: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/11.04/release/
[01:55] <mazda01> ScottL, i wasn't saying that was for sure the issue, i don't know yet. i have to reboot into that install
[01:55] <ScottL> ah, i understand now
[01:55] <mazda01> ScottL, i mounted the partition, what could I look for where to see if it's installed?
[01:56] <ScottL> mazda01, of that i am unsure from just mounting the drive
[01:57] <mazda01> ScottL, maybe if i searched /var/cache/apt/?
[01:57] <ScottL> mazda01, yes, that sounds reasonable
[02:01] <mazda01> huh, nothing there. i did open history.log found within /var/log/apt/ and I don't see anything using *dekstop* as a search item
[02:01] <mazda01> ScottL, thanks, i'll head over to ubuntu channel to see if they can help with this xorg GUI issue.
[02:02] <ScottL> i'm sorry i couldn't help you further
[02:04] <mazda01> would you happen to know how to update a sources.list with that PPA as well as install the signing key?
[02:05] <mazda01> i know it's a stretch but I thought id ask.
[02:05] <mazda01> oh, i mean to do it from a total seperate ubuntu version
[02:06] <ailo> mazda01, sudo add-apt-repository ppa:abogani/ppa, for natty or oneiric
[02:06] <mazda01> i can obviously access the sources.list BUT not sure about getting key installed while i am in lucid lynx
[02:06] <mazda01> ailo, i am not in that install currently, i only have it mounted
[02:07] <ailo> add these:
[02:07] <ailo> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/abogani/ppa/ubuntu natty main
[02:07] <ailo> deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/abogani/ppa/ubuntu natty main
[02:08] <ailo> Don't know about the key, but why not wait until you boot to natty, and do the add-apt instead+
[02:08] <mazda01> oh, i only need to run sudo add-apt-repository ppa:abogani/ppa and it will work? no key install thru terminal?
[02:09] <ailo> Right
[02:09] <mazda01> oh, ok then. cool. thanks
[02:10] <ailo> mazda01, I'm pretty sure you won't get any drivers to work with that kernel
[02:11] <mazda01> drivers?
[02:11] <ailo> graphic drivers
[02:11] <mazda01> oh yeah, i know
[02:11] <mazda01> audio modules should load though right?
[02:12] <mazda01> snd_via82xx,snd_ac97_codec,snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec
[02:12] <ailo> Everything should work except proprietary graphic drivers. Graphic drivers might work, but I wouldn't bet on it
[02:12] <mazda01> graphics driver "vesa" should work with it right?
[02:12] <ailo> mazda01, Just don't install any graphic drivers, and you'll be fine
[02:12] <ailo> Don't make any changes to xorg.conf. It's automatic
[02:12] <ailo> If you have a xorg.conf, rename it to something else
[02:12] <mazda01> ok, thanks. later guys. thanks for your help!
[02:13] <mazda01> ailo, well, that's the issue. I can't seem to get to a x server desktop
[02:14] <ailo> mazda01, Not even from a fresh install?
[02:14] <mazda01> nope
[02:14] <mazda01> ailo,  it just sits there at a blank black screen
[02:15] <ailo> mazda01, are you sure ubuntustudio-desktop is installed?
[02:15] <mazda01> ailo, i can go to tty1 and login though. what command would I issue to startx?
[02:15] <mazda01> ailo, that's the thing, i am not sure.
[02:16] <ailo> mazda01, Just to make sure, is it a Ubuntustudio install, or a regular Ubuntu?
[02:16] <mazda01> ailo, when i tried to first use nvidia-current package, it said it was to new for my old MX 420 card. so then I purged that and tried the nvidia-96 and it depends on xorg-video-abi-8.0 BUT is not installable
[02:17] <ailo> The drivers won't fix it
[02:17] <mazda01> ailo, its an install using this iso ubuntustudio-11.04-alternate-amd64
[02:17] <ailo> ok
[02:17] <ailo> Well, try: sudo apt-get install ubuntustudio-desktop
[02:17] <ailo> And if it starts to install it, then that was the problem all along
[02:17] <mazda01> i will mention though, it was an install using the iso NOT a cd or usb stick. shouldn't matter though
[02:18] <ailo> Yea, I don't think it should matter
[02:18] <ailo> In either case, you should get x working without doing anything except just installing the base system
[02:19] <ailo> I mean, the full OS install, as it is on the iso
[02:19] <mazda01> ailo, ok, will give it a try.
[02:20] <mazda01> ailo, thanks
[02:20] <mazda01> see ya guys.
[02:20] <mazda01> will report back IF i get in tonight
[02:30] <windcaller> Loving 11.10 but have a question.  What program do you use for packages you get over the web to install a .deb file?  The old ubuntustudio had program that just install .deb programs.  I will miss the nautilus dropbox intergration
[02:31] <ScottL> windcaller, you should be able to double click the .deb file and the "fileroller" package will open and install it for you i believe
[02:35] <windcaller> ScottL, yes it does that but it does not install it it just extracts the files from the archive and does not really install it and give me a start program icon.
[02:36] <ScottL> can you please right click the .deb file and see what options are under 'open with...'
[02:38] <windcaller> ScottL: "Recommended Applications" Archive Manager and I have a whole slough of "Other Applications"
[02:38] <ScottL> archive manager shoul do it
[02:38] <ScottL> should
[02:40] <windcaller> I have searched to web on how to install a deb. package on xfce and could not find anything.  do have I have to use the terminal?
[02:41] <ScottL> you can use dpkg -i foo.deb i believe
[02:41] <ScottL> please replace 'foo' with the appropriate .deb name :)
[02:42] <windcaller> thank you for the help.
[02:45] <ScottL> i wish i had been a much more direct help
[02:47] <windcaller> saw you on Linux Outlaws.  I learned a lot from your interview.
[02:51] <windcaller> Any Recommendations to replace Dropbox or Ubuntu One that I can access through Thunar?
[02:53] <windcaller> found Thunar Dropbox plugin
[03:04] <windcaller> I just figured out that gnome is installed on 10.11 and installing nautilus is simple to install since gnome is already part of UbuntuStudio.
[03:47] <windcaller> unable to use Ubuntu tweak
[03:49] <ailo> windcaller, dropbox is available for 11.10
[03:49] <ailo> windcaller, never mind
[04:24] <windcaller> I am using a Berringer U-Control and the system is not autoloading it.  How do I autoload?
[04:27] <windcaller> the US11.10 does recognize my internal sound card


[05:01] <RickVonMatta> Hello
[05:02] <guiverc> G'day RickVonMatta, if you have a Lubuntu Support question, please just ask it (try and keep to a single line, be patient awaiting response). Non-support talk belongs in #lubuntu-offtopic
[05:26] <brendantcc> does lubuntu support logging in with a fingerprint out of the box?
[05:31] <Maik> brendantcc: afaik plain Ubuntu is the only desktop that supports it ootb
[05:35] <brendantcc> d'oh
[05:35] <brendantcc> what extra pkgs am I lookin' at
[05:45] <Maik> brendantcc: i don't know if it even works, i'm struggling myself getting it to work on another buntu desktop
[05:56] <Maik> just found out it doesn't work on the desktop i use so i guess it won't work either on Lubuntu LXQt
[05:57] <Maik> seems it's a gnome thing only then
[07:42] <brendantcc> Maik - just jumped on google (i know, pls don't start) and it looks as if Light Locker *does* support fingerprint auth, but through some `fprintd`
[07:45] <brendantcc> aaaand it seems my reader isn't supported.
[07:45] <brendantcc> dammit
[07:52] <brendantcc> i feel like an idiot but... how do i change the scroll directions...?
[18:15] <carrot0101> hi


[02:25] <bess> Hi Guys, I have a problem instsalling ubuntu gnome the installer somehow crashes when I choose the custom partition install
[06:51] <sgo11> darkxst, hi, do you have time?
[06:53] <sgo11> darkxst, I added "xrandr --output VGA-0 --off" to /sbin/prime-offload. lightdm resolution problem is fixed. but gdm and gnome-shell still have the same problems. gdm is flickering and fails to start. gnome-shell is a black off screen when login with lightdm. Maybe these problems are not related to my non-existent display?
[07:06] <darkxst> sgo11, hey
[07:06] <sgo11> darkxst, hi. I am here. just added a comment in launchpad.
[07:07] <darkxst> yes saw
[07:08] <Noskcaj> Can i have a link to the ubuntu-gnome 3.10 transition tracker?
[07:08] <darkxst> so the flickering only happens on second display for me, which means probably gdm is displayed on non-existent display
[07:08] <Noskcaj> That did exist didn't it?
[07:08] <darkxst> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-gnome/+milestone/trusty
[07:09] <darkxst> buts its incomplete
[07:09] <darkxst> really
[07:09] <darkxst> also a few of those are PPA bugs for 3.12
[07:09] <darkxst> had hoped the QA team would take over triaging and tagging bugs, but that hasnt really happened
[07:10] <darkxst> sgo11, and not really surprised setting a second primary during a running session, crashes X!
[07:10] <darkxst> sgo11, you absolutely must only ever have one primary
[07:12] <sgo11> darkxst, ok. do you mean I should try "xrandr --output LVDS-1-0 --primary" in /sbin/prime-offload? can I put both "xrandr --output VGA-0 --off" and  "xrandr --output LVDS-1-0 --primary" in that file? thanks.
[07:12] <darkxst> sgo11, sure try that
[07:12] <darkxst> just put the --off command before the --primary one
[07:13] <sgo11> darkxst, ok. got it. I will try that now. I am using that laptop now. so I will have to quit IRC first. brb. thanks.
[07:13] <Noskcaj> darkxst, I have triage rights if you need anything
[07:16] <darkxst> Noskcaj, well I want all significant gnome-shell/mutter/gjs bugs etc tagged under Ubuntu gnome
[07:16] <darkxst> I will add you to that project so you can actually tag them though
[07:16] <Noskcaj> ty
[07:21] <darkxst> Noskcaj, done, so add project ubuntu-gnome to bug, then you should be able to select milestone trusty
[07:21] <sgo11> darkxst, just tried that. gdm is still flickering. the only difference is when I switch to VT1 and back to VT7, there is no pupup window "could not set the configuration for CRTC 652". when switching back to VT7, the screen is not updated, thus it still shows screen VT1 image.
[07:21] <Noskcaj> ok
[07:22] <darkxst> sgo11, you get the gdm grey background during flickering state though?
[07:22] <sgo11> darkxst, then, I tried to switch to lightdm. what I see this time is a popup window "The system is running in low-graphics mode" title.
[07:23] <sgo11> darkxst, yeah, gdm grey background flickering between grey and black (off).
[07:23] <darkxst> sgo11, first is odd, second means gdm is loaded but displayed on the other display
[07:23] <darkxst> sgo11, let me see if I can revert the config change in gpu-manager
[07:24] <sgo11> darkxst, in lightdm, it shows "Your screen , graphics card, and input device settings could not be detected correctly. You will need to configure these yourself". that is the content of that title.
[07:24] <Noskcaj> Actually, i need to update d-conf
[07:26] <darkxst> sgo11, yeh I know that popup, anyway undo those changes and try with the updated ubuntu-drivers-common which is building now on the ppa
[07:28] <sgo11> darkxst, when you say undo those changes, do you mean removing two lines "xrandr --output VGA-0 --off" and "xrandr --output LVDS-1-0 --primary" in /sbin/prime-offload ? thanks.
[07:28] <darkxst> sgo11, perhaps try just remove the '--primary' first
[07:28] <darkxst> but if that still doesnt work, then remove the other one
[07:29] <sgo11> darkxst, ok. got it. when the building is complete, please let me know. I will do update. thanks.
[07:29] <darkxst> I suspect you can't actually make an offloaded display primary
[07:29] <darkxst> sgo11, I'm off to cook dinner, it should take 20mins or so
[07:29] <sgo11> darkxst, got it. thanks a lot. I will try that.
[07:30] <darkxst> sgo11, if the ppa is still enabled, then just run an update in half, it should pick it up by then
[07:30] <sgo11> darkxst, ok. cheers. :) enjoy your dinner.
[08:15] <sgo11> darkxst, I tried ubuntu-drivers-common 1:<IP_ADDRESS>~trusty3. with and without "xrandr --output VGA-0 --off" in /sbin/prime-offload. The problem still remains the same. gdm is flickering.
[08:46] <darkxst> sgo11, is xrandr -q/--listproviders correct now?
[08:51] <sgo11> darkxst, hi, I was about to update the bug. I found a workaround.
[08:52] <sgo11> darkxst, I removed all the changes from /sbin/prime-offload. added Section "Monitor" Identifier "VGA-0" Option "Ignore" "True" EndSection in xorg.conf. both gdm and gnome-shell works. I still can see problem detected once gnome-shell logged in. but that is harmless. I don't see any problems at all.
[08:58] <sgo11> added a comment to the bug for reference.
[09:01] <sgo11> darkxst, sorry, I haven't tried "xrandr -q" without the modification of xorg.conf. I don't think that is correct, because turnning off VGA-0 in xorg.conf solve all the problems.
[09:02] <sgo11> do you want me to try "xrandr -q" without xorg.conf manual modification?
[09:09] <sgo11> PS: I removed all files in /var/crash/* and reboot the system. No "problem detected" popup window anymore.
[09:10] <sgo11> in current workaround, nvidia-settings become useless because it can only detect CRT-0 (VGA-0) which is disabled by xorg.conf.
[09:24] <darkxst> sgo11, sorry this is way out of my realm!
[09:25] <darkxst> I think you workaround does confirm that the 'non-existent' display is what causing the issues
[09:25] <darkxst> but I really I have no idea where it is coming from
[09:25] <sgo11> darkxst, yeah, "non-existent" does cause the issue. that is what I think too.
[09:26] <darkxst> my guess was the updated ubuntu-drivers-common would remove the issue, but it didn't so its a regression somewhere else
[09:26] <sgo11> darkxst, since I can use gdm and gnome-shell with nvidia-driver now, there is another small problem. gnome-tweak-tool shows workspaces are dynamics. but I can only see one workspace. the second workspace is never created.
[09:27] <darkxst> sgo11, in tweak tool? or gnome-shell
[09:28] <sgo11> darkxst, in gnome-shell, the second workspace is never created. I always have one workspace.
[09:29] <darkxst> sgo11, that is probably fallout from not having a primary monitor, you should file an upstream bug for that
[09:29] <sgo11> darkxst, in bug #1296020, there is a new comment or status which says "no longer affects: ubuntu-drivers-common". I don't know what it means. maybe it means this issue is from somewhere else.
[09:30] <darkxst> sgo11, probably just means the triager had not much clue, but given your recent findings he got lucky and was right!
[09:31] <sgo11> I don't know how to fire an upstream bug. from what you say, that means the workspace issue should be fixed if "non-existent display" gets fixed by ubuntu.
[09:32] <darkxst> sgo11, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/, and not exactly I suspect workspace creation is tied in with the primary display
[09:33] <darkxst> if you don't have a primary you might not be able to get a new workspace
[09:33] <darkxst> (although it has been sometime since I looked at that code, so could be off here)
[09:34] <sgo11> darkxst, oh. I figured it out. there is an option in gnome-tweak-tool. Workspaces --> "Workspaces only on primary display". that is set to ON by default. After setting it to OFF, I can see the second workspace.
[09:34] <darkxst> sgo11, still a bug!
[09:35] <darkxst> all the logic in that stuff assumes you actually have a primary display
[09:35] <darkxst> and apparently that doesnt happen with off-loaded displays
[09:37] <sgo11> ok. anyway. I am very happy today. I found a workaround solution, and I can use gdm and gnome-shell in my laptop now. Hopefully, the "non-existent" display issue can be fixed later.
[09:37]  * darkxst has to disappear for the night, please do file an upstream bug about this (against gnome-shell)
[09:38] <sgo11> darkxst, ok. I will try to fire one. never did this. let me see. thank you very much for your help!
[09:41] <sgo11> darkxst, sorry to interrupt. I am a newbie and bad in English. if possible, can you tell me what should be the title of this bug? "Workspaces can not be dynamically added when there is no primary display." ?
[10:11] <sgo11> darkxst, anyway, I fired the bug: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=726914
[18:04] <ljunggren> Hi
[18:05] <ljunggren> Thanks, 1 question since google could not help me : i have found numerous guides to install gnome 3.10 on ubuntu 13.10 but that just sounds like problems. Would following that guide but in Ubuntu-gnome be more error free? since it does not come packed with unity etc?
[18:05] <ljunggren> have someone tried it?
[22:26] <junkanoo> anyone here
[22:46] <darkxst> !ask