[03:07] <Omega> Is anyone using ayatana-scrollbar and a touchpad?
[03:30] <Omega> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-scrollbar/+bug/736592
[03:30] <Omega> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-scrollbar/+bug/736586
[04:37] <LLStarks> if i want to file a bug about not being able to drag a window out of fullscreen, what package would i file under? unity?
[04:52] <LLStarks> heh, the bug is already getting ongoing work
[06:51] <BigWhale> How do I add shortcuts to dash?
[07:01] <didrocks> good morning
[07:38] <didrocks> sladen: can you elaborate on bug #736580 ?
[07:38] <didrocks> I'm not sure to get the issue
[08:00] <zniavre> good morning
[08:01] <zniavre> didrocks,  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nux/+bug/735908   > i hav filled this bug report after compiz update unity stil does not work   :o(
[08:02] <didrocks> hey zniavre
[08:02] <zniavre> bonjour :o)
[08:02] <didrocks> looking
[08:02] <didrocks> oh, you are using the nouveau driver
[08:03] <zniavre> yes i am (but compiz is working with unity-2d and/or gnome-classic
[08:03] <didrocks> yeah, but we won't have the time to give enough support for it this cycle I'm afraid
[08:03] <didrocks> the nouveau driver has some memory leaks and some tricky codepath
[08:03] <zniavre> ha ok
[08:04] <didrocks> so depending on your hardware, it can work perfectly
[08:04] <zniavre> damned ...   :o)
[08:04] <didrocks> … or fail miserably :)
[08:04] <didrocks> zniavre: did you try the nvidia driver itself?
[08:04] <didrocks> so, basically, for this cycle, we prefer to focus on the main case, make sure it rocks, and then, we can have a deeper look at nouveau
[08:04] <zniavre> didrocks,  i can't im using old hardware with 173.14.xx driver not yet available for new xserver i guess
[08:05] <didrocks> but we can't have everything in a short period of time :)
[08:05] <zniavre> i understand
[08:05] <didrocks> zniavre: the nvidia driver is now compatible with the latest Xorg, not sure about the "legacy" one though
[08:05] <zniavre> legacy is not ...
[08:05] <didrocks> ok, I didn't follow that :)
[08:06] <didrocks> so yeah, apart from waiting, I'm sorry, we will still give it a quick look if we can fix that
[08:06] <didrocks> but no promess :)
[08:06] <zniavre> :o)
[08:06] <zniavre> merci beaucoup de me répondre
[08:07] <didrocks> avec plaisir ;)
[08:07] <smspillazzzz> robtaylor: poke
[08:08] <smspillazzzz> robtaylor: so I'm not so sure about having an "always restart" behaviour, since if compiz was crashing due to some developer code running it would always restart
[08:08] <smspillaz> robtaylor: maybe an --sm-always-restart would be good ? (Since that's for distros really)
[08:09] <didrocks> robtaylor: smspillaz: compiz restart should be handle by gnome-session. It just needs to register to it
[08:09] <didrocks> it's working like for metacity & mutter
[09:14] <robtaylor> smspillaz: so, yes, optiuons. i was considering a --sm-no-restart flag, but really, there's already --sm-disable
[09:15] <robtaylor> didrocks: compiz restart *is* handled by gnome session
[09:16] <didrocks> robtaylor: I was just reading smspillaz's comment on the --sm-always-restart which isn't supported by sm I think
[09:16] <robtaylor> didrocks: oh, no, the SM stuff is what's talking to gnome session
[09:16] <robtaylor> didrocks: so what i've done is add a single line of code that makes the sm stuff tell the session manager to always restart it
[09:17] <robtaylor> didrocks: and the question is, should there be a commandline option to enable/disable that behaviour, as its a PITA for development :)
[09:17] <didrocks> robtaylor: oh, you don't have id exchange in sm for that? /me never looked at that part TBH, just relying on gtk to do that for me :)
[09:18] <didrocks> hum, yeah, that can be nice to disable it for us :)
[09:18] <didrocks> (and so, the unity wrapper will disable it when restarting compiz manually)
[09:19] <robtaylor> didrocks: yeah, so atm the only way i've left to disable it is to disable sm , which would be annoying if you were hacking on the sm code :)
[09:19] <didrocks> robtaylor: heh, right. Anyway, it's better to enable this by default and add a switch to disable it than the contrary :)
[09:20] <robtaylor> didrocks: interestingly, metacity doesn't get restarted nowadays - give it a try in classic mode
[09:20] <robtaylor> didrocks: that's what i was thinking
[09:20] <didrocks> robtaylor: oh metacity doesn't respawn? Thanks for the head up. I'll have a look
[09:21] <robtaylor> smspillaz: didrocks: though maybe a .compiz/config file might be more useful for devs.
[09:21] <robtaylor> didrocks: yeah, i think it's all about different gnome-session behaviour
[09:21] <didrocks> probably, yeah…
[09:22] <didrocks> robtaylor: well, I would go for a switch for now, so that in dev, we hack on it, and the unity wrapper will disable the respawn as well
[09:23] <robtaylor> found one cute bug. gsm is supposed to repect the X-GNOME-AutoRestart option. but if your app is registering with XSMP, that overrides it
[09:23] <didrocks> (you're right, all the sm-client-id was already implemented, I didn't look into this)
[09:23] <robtaylor> even if you havnt said anything about your autorestart hints :)
[09:23] <didrocks> oh "nice" :)
[09:24] <robtaylor> not a biggie, but a little confusing when you first hit it ;)
[09:24] <robtaylor> but that's sm for you
[09:24] <robtaylor> i'd hate to think what happens when you talk XSMP *and* the new dbus interface
[09:25] <didrocks> yeah, I think that one will be dropped soon
[09:25] <robtaylor> smspillaz: didrocks: about to catch train now. I'll tidy up and add flags when i get in teh office. think of some more stuff to do :)
[09:25] <robtaylor> *for me to do
[09:25] <didrocks> robtaylor: sure, thanks! :)
[09:58] <kamstrup> njpatel: Any remark on my last comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/dee/+bug/733343 ?
[10:06] <kamstrup> njpatel: ping ^^ ?
[10:06] <Mark__T> Is there a way to build libappmenu without nunit?
[10:07] <Mark__T> libappindicator/\
[10:09] <njpatel> kamstrup, sorry, was getting some tea
[10:10] <njpatel> kamstrup, makes sense, I'll fix it though crash is harsh
[10:11] <njpatel> warning + default value is safer
[10:11] <kamstrup> njpatel: yeah - i can fairly easily make it return a default value for the particular type and print a g_critical(), but that could make bug chasing pretty hard...
[10:11] <njpatel> kamstrup, G_DEBUG=fatal-warnings would solve that right? Like usual with glib stuff
[10:12] <kamstrup> njpatel: indeed
[10:12] <BigWhale> Uhm, how do I add shortcuts to Dash?
[10:12] <kamstrup> njpatel: ok, for you baby, anything :-)
[10:21] <AndreaAzzarone> hi, when I activate expo plugin, handleCompizEvent doesn't catch any event!
[10:22] <AndreaAzzarone> is it normal?
[10:23] <AndreaAzzarone> but if i switch workspace, handleCompizEvent works well...
[10:26] <cando_> hey AndreaAzzarone :)...nice to see you here...smspillaz is the compiz maintainter
[10:26] <cando_> try to ask him..
[10:27] <AndreaAzzarone> hi cando :) thanks for the suggestion
[10:36] <AndreaAzzarone> smspillaz, i have a problem:  when I activate expo plugin, handleCompizEvent doesn't catch any event! Is it normal?
[10:49] <kamstrup> njpatel: if I put a GEmblemedIcon in the results model... what will you render?
[10:53] <njpatel> kamstrup, let me check
[10:54] <njpatel> kamstrup, we use gtk_icon_theme_lookup_by_gicon, so I'd say "yes"
[10:55] <kamstrup> njpatel: ok, good to know. I am asking because of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-place-applications/+bug/733669
[10:57] <njpatel> kamstrup, ooh, cool, your going to have an emblem on available apps? Can't wait to see that
[10:57] <njpatel> :)
[10:57]  * njpatel hopes it actually works
[10:58] <robtaylor> smspillaz: so, what do you think? flag to enable, flag to disable, a config file and/or an environment variable?
[11:11] <robtaylor> smspillaz: also any hints on cutting compile times would be very welcome!
[11:14] <aruiz> robtaylor, we need to setup a distcc thingie in the office :-)
[11:15] <robtaylor> aruiz: good plan
[11:15] <smspillaz> robtaylor: make -j80 ?
[11:15] <robtaylor> heh
[11:16] <smspillaz> AndreaAzzarone: what event are you trying to catch ?
[11:16] <aruiz> robtaylor, there's a distcc+avahi thing somewhere
[11:16] <aruiz> robtaylor, I'll have a look at it when I have sometime
[11:18] <AndreaAzzarone> smspillaz: look here https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/718889
[11:19] <smspillaz> AndreaAzzarone: right, so what event are you trying to catch ?
[11:19] <smspillaz> in reality, catching the event for expo is a bit trickier since there isn't really any standard interface for it
[11:19] <smspillaz> you'd need to catch FocusOut and then use screen->grabExist ("expo") really
[11:20] <AndreaAzzarone> ok thanks
[11:20] <smspillaz> (catch FocusOut with event->xfocus.mode == NotifyGrab)
[11:20] <smspillaz> in CompScreen::handleEvent
[11:25] <smspillaz> robtaylor: actually, might be useful to pop into #compiz-dev to discuss compiz stuff
[11:25] <smspillaz> robtaylor: but I was thinking just now that I am cool with your fix as is, since we can just use --sm-disable to get rid of crash looping
[11:25] <smspillaz> and really if the user is having a crash loop, we should fix the crashes
[11:27] <robtaylor> smspillaz: well, i've added the flag now ;) also disable restart if your're using --debug
[11:27] <smspillaz> ok
[11:27] <smspillaz> I think without the flag is probably better, and also disabling restart on --debug is good
[11:28] <smspillaz> since we have --sm-disable for tha reason
[11:30] <dbarth_> smspillaz: robtaylor, loicm: can we talk about how bugs/tasks are shared between the 3 of you?
[11:30] <smspillaz> dbarth_: sure thing
[11:31] <smspillaz> after I have dinner :)
[11:35] <robtaylor> smspillaz|food: ok, sounds liek a plan. i'm just testing some more
[11:35] <robtaylor> dbarth_: hey, how are you?
[11:35] <dbarth_> smspillaz: robtaylor, loicm: ok, so around 1 UTC, ie in 1h30; i'll ping you back
[11:36] <dbarth_> robtaylor: cool and you? which bug did you choose for a victim?
[11:37] <robtaylor> dbarth_: didrocks pointed my at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/716462
[11:38] <dbarth_> ah nice
[11:39] <kamstrup> njpatel: lol - the emblems works without a change in unity :-D but it looks...
[11:39] <dbarth_> this afternoon, i'd like to see how more test cases can be gathered and automated for my top-3 worries being: invisible windows, stacking issues and decorator
[11:40] <njpatel> kamstrup, screenshot?!?
[11:40] <robtaylor> dbarth_: yep. i've got some patches lined up to help debugging window stacking
[11:40] <dbarth_> sweet
[11:40] <robtaylor> dbarth_: the fun bit will be automating the tests, would be good to see what ideas smspillaz|food fas
[11:41] <dbarth_> for info we do have a machine with a GPU connected to our build system
[11:41] <dbarth_> so that using graphical/semi-interactive tests is not too problematic
[11:42] <dbarth_> but even if that can be part of a make check we run only before rolling a tarball that will be a good improvement
[11:42] <robtaylor> i guess we could just do some pointer movement recording, though that can be pretty error-prone
[11:42] <kamstrup> njpatel: http://grillbar.org/files/unity-web-emblems.png
[11:42] <robtaylor> dbarth_: the problem is, to repro you'll need the whole environment
[11:42] <robtaylor> dbarth_: so not really something that can be done on make check
[11:43] <njpatel> kamstrup, wow
[11:43] <kamstrup> njpatel: my words
[11:43] <dbarth_> hmm, there's also unity's autopilot that uses xtest-based pointer movements, and that can be used to inject such regression testing
[11:43] <njpatel> kamstrup, bug in gtk_icon_theme?
[11:43] <njpatel> kamstrup, can we do it via a hint?
[11:43] <dbarth_> robtaylor: well, yes, not make check, but make check-interactive or something, to be run by the release manager before putting a seal on the upload
[11:44] <robtaylor> dbarth_: ah, now that sounds like a good place to start
[11:44] <robtaylor> dbarth_: ah, yup, that makes more sense :)
[11:44] <kamstrup> njpatel: we don't have hints on the result models
[11:44] <njpatel> kamstrup, abuse comment?
[11:44] <kamstrup> njpatel: hmmm, i'd rather have it a clean way
[11:44] <njpatel> kamstrup, or set an hint about the uri?
[11:45] <kamstrup> njpatel: and this is still just goofing around as noone from design has chimed in
[11:45] <robtaylor> dbarth_: i think the tricky bit will be spotting the errors
[11:46] <dbarth_> robtaylor: for #716462. i've reassigned the fix to you, targetting for this week's upload tentatively, but will push to next week if the curtain comes down too early this afternoon
[11:46] <robtaylor> dbarth_: it'll have to be a case of tracking down the bug so we can get some debug output going on when it happens
[11:47] <robtaylor> dbarth_: ah, nice. I'm testing out a fix right now, so hopefully should be able to get it into a relase in time with didrocks help
[11:47] <dbarth_> robtaylor: my idea is that some of the issues that have been fixed had reproducible test cases; and i just want to ensure that those do not see regressions; the latest issues are super corner cases; so i don't have high hopes for test automation here
[11:48] <dbarth_> just don't want the latests fixes to break the old ones
[11:48] <didrocks> dbarth_: no compiz upload today
[11:48] <dbarth_> didrocks: oh really?
[11:48] <didrocks> dbarth_: we don't want to mix unity and compiz upload
[11:48] <dbarth_> ah right
[11:48] <dbarth_> si unity goes, and compiz when? monday?
[11:48] <didrocks> and this time, I won't allow you this
[11:48] <didrocks> so yeah, monday
[11:48] <dbarth_> ok, monday is the upload window for compiz nw
[11:48] <robtaylor> ok :)
[11:49] <kamstrup> njpatel: here's another http://grillbar.org/files/unity-package-emblem.png
[11:50] <kamstrup> njpatel: I think there's some positioning snafu going on with smaller images
[11:50] <kamstrup> njpatel: look at the icon under the cursor, the bounding box...
[11:50] <dbarth_> robtaylor: for info also, the stacking issue is due to a de-synchronization between the xserver view of the window tree and compiz's internal structures
[11:51] <dbarth_> robtaylor: the test app could work (if possible) as a 2nd window manager that also monitors that tree and rings an alarm when the mismatch lasts
[11:51] <robtaylor> ah, thats what i supected. There's a bunch of cases that are silently ignored
[11:51] <dbarth_> ie, there is a short delay for events to be processed and things to settle down
[11:52] <dbarth_> one workaround i've proposed would be to have compiz re-sync from time to time, or in an idle loop
[11:52] <dbarth_> so that even if we can't fix every possible bug, the system could have a "self-healing" mode
[11:53] <dbarth_> let's see with sam
[11:53] <robtaylor> *nod* he's be diggin in on it, i'd like his current perspective
[11:54] <njpatel> kamstrup, yeah, we position in centre depending on size of the actual texture right now
[11:55] <njpatel> kamstrup, oooh, so it's working it's just looking bad for small or no icons
[11:55] <kamstrup> njpatel: yes
[11:55] <njpatel> that is fixable I guess
[11:55] <njpatel> kamstrup, need a better icon :)
[11:56] <njpatel> emblem*
[11:56] <kamstrup> njpatel: look at the diff of the sample branch on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-place-applications/+bug/733669 (screenies attached there as well). This was trivial to accomplish - so +100 for our architecture for this :-)
[11:56] <kamstrup> njpatel: yeah, maybe with better positioning of the emblem, and some monochrome high-contrast love, this could work well...
[11:57] <njpatel> kamstrup, agreed
[11:59] <costales>  Hi! I have problems with my icon app (gufw) in the Unity left panel. I changed the icon in the main glade file, this changed the icon in Unity left panel, but the icon is very 'blur'. See this capture, I overwrited the icon with the gnome-terminal, the second is my icon, and the first the original Terminal: http://ubuntuone.com/p/hqi/ Any help, please? Thanks in advance! :)
[12:00] <didrocks> kamstrup: can I get a small review on https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/unity-place-applications/aboutconfig/+merge/53793 please?
[12:00] <kamstrup> didrocks: on it
[12:00] <didrocks> kamstrup: you'll need the latest and greatest ccsm of course, freshly uploaded :)
[12:00] <didrocks> kamstrup: but I think you don't really need it, you will see the start of it, and fail :p
[12:04] <kamstrup> didrocks: why would about:config show ccsm and not g-c-c?
[12:05] <didrocks> kamstrup: in alt + F2, you want to configure unity, not g-c-c
[12:05] <didrocks> well, that's how njpatel saw it and I agree with that vision
[12:05] <kamstrup> didrocks: that seems arbitrary to me
[12:06] <didrocks> kamstrup: we already have a g-c-c shortcut in the session menu
[12:06] <njpatel> kamstrup, it's just an internal unity thing
[12:06] <njpatel> you can't configure unity from g-c-c
[12:06] <kamstrup> njpatel, didrocks: why not about:unity then?
[12:07] <njpatel> because about:config seems to be what all the cool kids use?
[12:07] <didrocks> and I would expect on about:unity and about box for unity
[12:07] <didrocks> with all our smiley faces of course :)
[12:07] <njpatel> I don't really mind
[12:07] <didrocks> (on fire as we are using compiz)
[12:08] <njpatel> it was just a fun idea, totally didn't want to put too much thought into it
[12:08] <didrocks> let's kamstrup decide as he had objection, it's just few characters change, I don't care ;)
[12:09] <didrocks> njpatel: did you readded "Search" in the dash somewhere?
[12:09] <didrocks> have*
[12:10] <robtaylor> dbarth_: didrocks: ok if I go grab a quick sandwich while we wait for smspillaz|food ?
[12:10] <njpatel> didrocks, oh, yes
[12:10] <njpatel> didrocks, sorry, I clobbered your commit
[12:10] <didrocks> njpatel: why? you broke my heart!
[12:10] <didrocks> and my code :)
[12:11] <didrocks> njpatel: don't worry dude ;)
[12:11] <njpatel> didrocks, no, it was a mistake because I changed the way the markup works and I didn't realise that I screwed up your change, sorry
[12:11] <didrocks> njpatel: at least, now we have markup seperated from the content, that's better :)
[12:11] <kamstrup> didrocks: see my comment on https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/unity-place-applications/aboutconfig/+merge/53793
[12:11] <kamstrup> didrocks: and we obviously need an about:robots as well
[12:12] <didrocks> kamstrup: sure, if you want to extend it on it :)
[12:12] <didrocks> heh
[12:12] <didrocks> kamstrup: btw, I think you notice I gathered things in the function now
[12:12] <didrocks> seems cleaner to me
[12:13] <kamstrup> didrocks: indeed
[12:13] <didrocks> well *method it's vala :)
[12:13] <didrocks> kamstrup: so, about:config or :unity? :p
[12:14] <kamstrup> didrocks: config is ok... it's not like it's a prominent feature :-)
[12:14] <kamstrup> didrocks: and about:unity could just as well show version info of unity or something
[12:15] <ogra> didrocks, could you give a thumbs up on http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~om26er/ubuntu/natty/metacity/metacity-fix-717216/revision/105 ?
[12:16] <ogra> (whenever you have time, no hurry)
[12:17] <didrocks> ogra: looking at it, the code looks good, did you test it? (can we have that upstreamed as well?)
[12:18] <ogra> i think several people on the bug tested it successfully, i didnt personally
[12:19] <didrocks> ogra: can you post it on bugzilla if you have some time for this? I'll do it on Monday otherwise
[12:19] <ogra> k
[12:20] <ogra> gnome bug 642108
[12:21] <ogra> didrocks, ^^^ :) already there
[12:21] <didrocks> ogra: nice, so the patch needs to be DEP5 tagged, isn't it?
[12:21] <ogra> phwe
[12:22]  * ogra just wanted to merge it without touching anything ... i'll look into it
[12:24] <rodrigo_> didrocks, njpatel: can I get a 2nd approval of https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/unity/sync-geometries/+merge/51929 please?
[12:25] <didrocks> ogra: we had so many patch in metacity and we reported and tracked all of them… so better to keep up with this :)
[12:25] <didrocks> rodrigo_: looking
[12:26] <rodrigo_> didrocks, merci beaucoup :)
[12:26] <didrocks> rodrigo_: njpatel already attributed to him, isn't it?
[12:26] <didrocks> (the review)
[12:27] <rodrigo_> didrocks, no, I think it was me a couple of weeks ago, when I first proposed that branch
[12:27] <didrocks> rodrigo_: ok, will give a look and some tests soon :)
[12:28] <njpatel> rodrigo_, +1
[12:28] <rodrigo_> ok thanks!
[12:29] <rodrigo_> didrocks, shall I wait for your testing before merging, or njpatel's approval is enough?
[12:29] <humphreybc> *cough* http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/03/unity/
[12:31] <didrocks> rodrigo_: njpatel's approval is more than I can ever do :)
[12:31] <rodrigo_> didrocks, :)
[12:34] <Mark__T> did the way change how an app registers to indicators?
[12:35] <Mark__T> claws mail doesn't show up in the messaging menu although it has a file in .config/indicators/messages/applications
[12:38] <rodrigo_> humphreybc, I agree 100% with you on the notifications thing, but we already had them that way in maverick afaik
[12:39] <humphreybc> rodrigo_: notifications thing?
[12:39] <rodrigo_> humphreybc, notifications interrupting you, as you write in http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/03/unity/
[12:39] <humphreybc> rodrigo_: That's in reference to the iPad.
[12:40] <Guest25460> Hello. Should I bring a mockup for the dash of unity. Where can I do?
[12:40] <humphreybc> Ubuntu's notification system is completely fine, except for the fact that they're non-interactive where in some situations they probably could be.
[12:40] <humphreybc> ie, when it notifies you "James is online" for IRC, you should be able to click on the bubble and start a new IM to James. But I believe they're working on that.
[12:40] <rodrigo_> and non persistent, afaik
[12:41] <rodrigo_> yeah, interactivity of the notifications is the biggest problem, imo
[12:41] <didrocks> kamstrup: pushed rev 180 with the mapping
[12:41] <humphreybc> Yes, non persistent is an issue, but something that they're trying to solve with the "messaging menu"
[12:41] <humphreybc> I personally think Android's notification system is tops
[12:42] <didrocks> Guest25460: it should be raised on the ayatan mailing list
[12:42] <robtaylor> didrocks: so, now i have something very weird happening, compiz isn't starting up properly. something very odd is happening on this system!
[12:42] <Guest25460> ok
[12:42] <Guest25460> thank you
[12:42] <didrocks> yw :)
[12:42] <didrocks> robtaylor: hope you enjoyed the swandwich still :)
[12:42] <robtaylor> didrocks: i did, twas lovely :)
[12:43] <didrocks> robtaylor: do you have a backtrace? a hang?
[12:43] <Dart> please have a look at Bug #736683
[12:43] <robtaylor> didrocks: not even that, it goes into running the mainloop, but doesnt do any of the normal startup stuff. very weird
[12:44]  * robtaylor stashes and rebuilds
[12:44] <didrocks> Dart: this one needs design input, will be better to raise that on the ayanata mailing list as well
[12:44] <didrocks> robtaylor: hum, we had similar issues as well.
[12:44] <Dart> ok.
[12:45] <didrocks> robtaylor: btw, are you based on the git version or the ubuntu one?
[12:45] <robtaylor> didrocks: git
[12:45] <didrocks> we have quite some distro-patch that smspillaz|food prefers to keep upstream, so it will maybe be good to base on that
[12:46] <robtaylor> didrocks: well, i have the ubuntu package installed, got git version in /usr/local
[12:46] <robtaylor> didrocks: i'll pull the patches into branch, that probably makes the most sense
[12:46] <robtaylor> didrocks: i'll push that up to my github too
[12:46] <didrocks> robtaylor: yeah, you can do that as well :)
[12:47] <robtaylor> didrocks: launchpad so needs to grow some github functionality ;)
[12:59] <didrocks> apinheiro_lunch: rodrigo_: do you have any function in a11y that can steal the focus when the launcher is shown? (even if the a11y is disabled?)
[13:00] <apinheiro_lunch> didrocks, there are a method to grab the focus
[13:00] <apinheiro_lunch> anyway we don't call it
[13:00] <didrocks> apinheiro_lunch: ahah!
[13:00] <didrocks> hum
[13:00] <apinheiro_lunch> and it only be called
[13:00] <didrocks> apinheiro_lunch: what is it?
[13:00] <apinheiro_lunch> if any AT
[13:00] <apinheiro_lunch> requires it
[13:00] <loicm> hi dbarth_, neil asked me to work on #711916, #716462 or #729597. I worked on the first one, which led to some more crash fixes in nux (linked to feature detection) like #735908 or #734519. I'll try to merge request these ones tonight.
[13:00] <didrocks> apinheiro_lunch: I want to add some debug there
[13:00] <apinheiro_lunch> but what it is clear is that it will not be called if the a11y is not enabled
[13:00] <kamstrup> didrocks: looking
[13:01] <loicm> dbarth_: since robtaylor is on #716462, I'll switch to #729597 right after that, unless you've got other priorities
[13:01] <apinheiro_lunch> didrocks, on nux-view-accessible.cpp
[13:01] <apinheiro_lunch> there are a method
[13:01] <apinheiro_lunch> grab_focus
[13:01] <apinheiro_lunch> so a AT could call it in order to give the focus to that element
[13:01] <apinheiro_lunch> anyway, AT like Orca don't do that usually
[13:02] <apinheiro_lunch> didrocks, btw, after all the recent changes on launcher and his keynav I found a regression
[13:02] <apinheiro_lunch> on a11y support
[13:02] <apinheiro_lunch> bug 736790
[13:03] <apinheiro_lunch> and didrocks sorry, but Im going to lunch
[13:03] <apinheiro_lunch> in order to make effective my current nick
[13:03] <apinheiro_lunch> anyway as I said
[13:03] <didrocks> apinheiro_lunch: no worry, I'm justr tying to see if I can fix the stolen focs for this release :)
[13:03] <apinheiro_lunch> if a11y is not enabled
[13:03] <apinheiro_lunch> a11y framework doesn't interact at all with the rest of the apps
[13:04] <didrocks> apinheiro_lunch: yeah, better to check anyway if we don't call that by error
[13:04] <didrocks> apinheiro_lunch: I didn't find in our funcation, hence the desperate check :)
[13:04] <apinheiro_lunch> well, asI said Im also affected because the last changes on focus
[13:04] <apinheiro_lunch> so, bye then
[13:04] <dbarth_> loicm: ok, just reading
[13:04] <didrocks> will keep you posted for what I discover :)
[13:04] <didrocks> apinheiro_lunch: enjoy your lunch :)
[13:05] <dbarth_> loicm: btw, about the nux detection feature, can you review my small fix and put this one in for today?
[13:05] <kenvandine> klattimer, does indicator-datetime only refresh appointments on an interval? or does it get signals when the calendar changes?
[13:05] <kenvandine> klattimer, i know for remote calendars (edited remotely) it won't be able to get changes until eds refreshes
[13:06] <kenvandine> but if an event is added in evolution to a google calendar, i would think it would appear in the indicator
[13:06] <zyga> mpt, I read your email to the mailing list (https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg05037.html) - I have one idea related to point 3 (application name is clobbered by menu), Perhaps we could do what firefox 4 does on windows/osx - provide a differently themed "application button"
[13:08] <mpt> hi JohnLea
[13:08] <Guest25460> Mailing list Ayatana also handle  Unity 2D?
[13:10] <didrocks> apinheiro_lunch: confirmed, it's not the atk
[13:10] <mpt> zyga, that's a possibility. The main difficulty I can think of is that some application names would be very wide, because they're not designed for brevity in the way that Firefox's button is (or the Mac's application menu is). E.g. Firefox's would be "Firefox Web Browser".
[13:12] <zyga> mpt, that's true, we could have a custom destkop icon key for those applications (X-Unity-Appmenu-Name) so that we can fix critical applications though
[13:12] <zyga> mpt, and if the idea sticks upstreams could accept non-intrusive patches
[13:13] <zyga> mpt, but I like the idea to expose the button rather than hide it, it could also answer the question "which application is currently focused"
[13:13] <mpt> But what would the button do?
[13:13] <zyga> mpt, and it could be used similarly to the way quicklists are used in the launcher
[13:14] <zyga> mpt, mainly inform the user about what's the current application, we could probably move some menu items there (launchpadintegration comes to mind)
[13:14] <zyga> mpt, we could allow users to go to the software center from that menu
[13:14] <zyga> and several other interesting things before we allow upstreams to populate it
[13:15] <zyga> I'm sure that such idea would be quickly adopted by some applications, for the rest a set of menu items would be provided as I listed above
[13:16] <zyga> mpt, the menu might collapse to a single application icon when the menu bar is displayed and needs more space
[13:17] <zyga> mpt, like pinned tabs in firefox 4 do for webapps
[13:17] <zyga> mpt, I'm just exploring the idea but I think keeping application "identity" in the top menu is important
[13:17] <mpt> zyga, one possibility would be to just use the application's icon rather than its name
[13:17] <zyga> mpt, I use unity daily but whenever I stray from the terminal I always feel angry that focused window is hard to guess
[13:18] <zyga> mpt, right, as in the pinned-webapplication use case
[13:18] <zyga> mpt, the problem with that though is that most icons are too small at that size
[13:18] <mpt> zyga, yeah, the theme should make a much greater distinction between the focused window and unfocused windows. Unfortunately it apparently can't do much about that (outside the title bars) until GTK3.
[13:18] <zyga> mpt, the menu is better suited for horizontal text rather than small small thumbnail
[13:18] <zyga> (unless we plan to make vista-style larger-than-the-panel-icon)
[13:18] <mpt> or Gnome-Shell-style
[13:19] <zyga> mpt, right, I understand that
[13:19] <zyga> mpt, alternatively the application-name menu could reuse color from the predominant color of the icon as unity launcher does
[13:20] <zyga> mpt, it would allow users to remember applications quickly and might allow them to identify some apps just by their color
[13:20] <zyga> (color has lots of other issues, colorblindness etc but it's an improvement over current truncate-somewhere behavior)
[13:22] <mpt> A graphic designer with time on their hands could mock up ten different possibilities for comparison
[13:23] <dbarth_> Guest25460: yes, there shouldn't be differences between the design of the 2 UIs in general
[13:23] <zyga> mpt, sure, but is that the way forward?
[13:24] <mpt> zyga, I think so
[13:24] <zyga> mpt, something for the O UDS perhaps?
[13:25] <mpt> That would be too late for O. Unity design happens earlier than that
[13:26] <zyga> so what will happen with this particular case?
[13:31] <Dart> mpt, can we do something like this? http://i.imgur.com/2L0uV.png Clicking on menu expands menubar horizontally
[13:31] <dbarth_> loicm: just noted, but doing merge requests tonight will be too late for the upload as well
[13:32] <dbarth_> loicm: for the nux fixes
[13:32] <dbarth_> smspillaz: back?
[13:32] <mpt> Dart, I don't know what you're suggesting. Maybe an animation would help.
[13:32] <mpt> zyga, I don't know.
[13:32] <smspillaz> dbarth_: yep
[13:34] <dbarth_> ah cool
[13:34] <Cimi> smspillaz: is there a way I could send an event to the toplevel window after the compiz titlebar is re-added?
[13:34] <Cimi> smspillaz: i dunno, gobject notify too
[13:34] <smspillaz> Cimi: what kind of event ?
[13:34] <Cimi> smspillaz: I just need a signal
[13:34] <robtaylor> dbarth_: smspillaz: didrocks: should we do this planning now? :)
[13:35] <dbarth_> smspillaz, loicm, robtaylor: right, maybe we can switch to #unity-compiz or something? or #compiz-dev directly?
[13:35] <Cimi> smspillaz: hopefully configure
[13:35] <didrocks> dbarth_: should I join?
[13:35] <Cimi> but if it's not... let's get something else
[13:35] <dbarth_> didrocks: sure
[13:35] <loicm> dbarth_: I approved your merge request
[13:35] <didrocks> dbarth_: #unity-compiz or #compiz-dev is fine with me
[13:35] <loicm> dbarth_: should I merge it?
[13:35] <Cimi> smspillaz: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-scrollbar/+bug/732091
[13:35] <dbarth_> #compiz-dev
[13:35] <dbarth_> loicm: go ahead
[13:35] <Cimi> smspillaz: in particular smspillaz , comment #2
[13:36] <Dart> mpt, currently whenever we hover the pointer on top  panel, app menus appear. What I am suggesting is that we create some menu button/text, users hover on that instead of entire top panel. That way users actually know that there are app menus and they exists on top panel. The hover effect would be the same as it have now in Unity.
[13:36] <smspillaz> Cimi: you can probably do this
[13:36] <mpt> Dart, oh, so "Menu" in that mockup isn't just a placeholder, it's actual text?
[13:37] <smspillaz> Cimi: check for PropertyNotify on _NET_FRAME_EXTENTS on the window
[13:37] <loicm> dbarth_: regarding the crashers, most problems have already been fixed for the coming release, I'll try to merge the most important remaining fix I've done ASAP
[13:38] <Cimi> smspillaz: and that's all
[13:38] <dbarth> loicm: can you join #compiz-dev?
[13:38] <Cimi> smspillaz: could be brilliant
[13:38] <smspillaz> Cimi: that should work
[13:38] <Dart> mpt, its text I added with inkscape
[13:38] <dbarth> loicm: ok cool
[13:38] <Cimi> smspillaz: if that works, smspillaz 1 Jason 0
[13:38] <smspillaz> Cimi: you can check timings with xprop -spy on the window you want to watch
[13:38]  * smspillaz the window manager master
[13:38] <Cimi> lol
[13:38] <Cimi> indeed I have to agree
[13:40] <mpt> Dart, I mean, it's the exact text you imagine appearing (it's not a placeholder for "File" or anything like that)
[13:40] <Cimi> dbarth: we have an incredible dx team, everyone has its own attitude that raises the excellence of all of us
[13:42] <Dart> mpt, yes exact text. sorry I can't make a working mockup as I don't know how to make animated stuff. When we hover on 'Menu' it disappears and is replaced by: File Edit View Search and so on
[13:45] <mpt> Dart, but that wouldn't solve the original problem that menus are invisible until you mouse over them :-)
[13:46] <mpt> It would be slightly better in that there's a clue that there are menus at all
[13:46] <mpt> but also slightly worse in that the overall target area to make the menus appear is smaller
[13:50] <Dart> mpt, so keep the menu button/text I am suggesting and keep hover effect for entire panel. But your first point *invisible menus* persists
[13:50] <mpt> yeah
[13:51] <mpt> Just throwing this out there, one other possibility is to put the window title to the right of whatever menus are present
[13:51] <mpt> in a different text style
[13:51] <MacSlow>  greetings everybody
[13:51] <mpt> I've seen a Web browser (I don't remember which one) do that with URL vs. page title
[13:53] <Dart> mpt, and everything is visible fro beginning right?
[13:53] <mpt> yes
[13:53] <Dart> mpt, seems reasonable to me :)
[13:56] <Dart> mpt, but what happens with firefox/midori/other apps with tabs, that have long long title info? It gets truncated too much.
[13:57] <mpt> Dart, when you're trying to put five distinct things into a single bar, *something* is going to get truncated.
[13:59] <Dart> mpt, its all messed up xD
[14:14] <seiflotfy> DBO, dude when is the stuff fixed that would allow me to create jumplists
[14:15] <DBO> when someone gets time
[14:16] <didrocks> kamstrup: nice, you found a contributor for ~ ? ;)
[14:31] <dbarth> apinheiro_lunch: you're not having anymore, are you? ;)
[14:40] <apinheiro> dbarth, tell me
[14:42] <Cimi> smspillaz: ?
[15:02] <apinheiro> didrocks, you here?
[15:02] <didrocks> apinheiro: sure, quite busy with the unity release, but here :)
[15:03] <apinheiro> didrocks, well just asking if someone is working on the lose focus thing
[15:03] <apinheiro> I think that my problem is related with that
[15:03] <apinheiro> orca is failing
[15:03] <apinheiro> because for example
[15:03] <apinheiro> sometimes you press alt+f1
[15:03] <kvalo> kenvandine: hi. a new release: https://launchpad.net/indicator-network/trunk/0.3.7
[15:03] <didrocks> apinheiro: I'll continue looking at this starting Monday (I'm not there tomorrow)
[15:03] <apinheiro> and you receive a focus lose instead of a focus in
[15:03] <apinheiro> and sometimes you press Esc
[15:03] <apinheiro> and you get a focus in
[15:04] <didrocks> apinheiro: yeah, you don't get the right focus event, can be related, but not quite sure. Anyway, I know which part of the code sent you that, so hopefully we can have a look later at it
[15:05] <apinheiro> didrocks, well, i mostly use the signals OnStartFocus
[15:05] <apinheiro> and OnEndFocus
[15:05] <didrocks> apinheiro: for now, I can see that it's really the launcher which gets focus and as we creates the window each time it's shown, it can be a windowmanager thing trying to give the focus
[15:05] <apinheiro> to know if the object has the focus or not
[15:05] <didrocks> apinheiro: yeah, there are sent then
[15:05] <didrocks> apinheiro: so, I'll look at that closely on Monday
[15:05] <apinheiro> didrocks, so there is already a bug reported?
[15:05] <didrocks> apinheiro: yeah, and quite a lot of dups :)
[15:05] <apinheiro> didrocks, I can create one, and share at least whay I discovered
[15:06] <didrocks> apinheiro: look for it, should be easy to find
[15:06] <apinheiro> didrocks, ah ok, so I don't add more noise to the launchpad
[15:06] <robtaylor> smspillaz: so, can I ask, what do you do for testing work on master?
[15:06] <didrocks> yeah ;)
[15:06] <apinheiro> I will just add some comments on any of those bugs
[15:06] <apinheiro> didrocks, thanks, I will let you alone with the release
[15:06] <didrocks> apinheiro: yeah, keep you in touch on Monday!
[15:14] <robtaylor> didrocks: maybe you can help me? :)
[15:15] <robtaylor> didrocks: i'm trying to find a good way to hack on git master and install sensibly alongside the ubuntu packaging without always copying my patches over and rebuilding the package...
[15:15] <robtaylor> didrocks: what do you do?
[15:15] <didrocks> robtaylor: I don't really know about that. I tend to use my package only to keep a clean install TBH :)
[15:15] <didrocks> robtaylor: and knowning the compiz cmake rules, it's not that nice to have mutiples install at once
[15:15] <robtaylor> didrocks: ah, i guess you might say that ;)
[15:16] <didrocks> heh ;)
[15:16] <robtaylor> didrocks: yeah, i'm finding that out. its not pretty in there
[15:16] <didrocks> robtaylor: I only install in /usr/local for nux and unity/places
[15:16] <didrocks> robtaylor: yeah, I had to fix a lot of corner cases in the cmake for building the first 0.9 revision
[15:17] <robtaylor> didrocks: i always hit interesting cases with build systems, as I tend to use stow for my /usr/local to keep things sane
[15:18] <didrocks> yeah, it's "interesting" :)
[15:29] <smspillaz> robtaylor: what do yuo mean?
[15:31] <robtaylor> smspillaz: well, do have do a /usr/local install?
[15:31] <smspillaz> robtaylor: oh
[15:31] <smspillaz> robtaylor: I usually install in ~/Applications/Compiz
[15:31] <smspillaz> and adjust paths accordingly
[15:32] <robtaylor> adjust paths?
[15:32] <njpatel> apinheiro, DBO  and jaytaoko  can help resolve the focus issues with a11y and latest nux/unity
[15:33] <robtaylor> i'm getting tripped up by how compiz is picking up its plugins, it seems
[15:33] <apinheiro> njpatel, well afaik is not only a a11y thing
[15:33] <apinheiro> didrocks was one of the first realizing it
[15:33] <apinheiro> he said that he will check that on Monday
[15:33] <njpatel> didrocks, apinheiro, Ah, okay, so what's the issue?
[15:33] <apinheiro> so it would be to coordinate all people ;)
[15:34] <apinheiro> njpatel, it seems that the launcher is not getting the focus properly
[15:34] <apinheiro> in my case
[15:34] <apinheiro> I use the signals OnStartFocus
[15:34] <apinheiro> and OnEndFocus
[15:34] <apinheiro> to check if the launcher receives/lose the focus
[15:34] <apinheiro> right now
[15:34] <apinheiro> if I do a Alt+f1
[15:34] <apinheiro> I receive a OnEndFocus
[15:34] <apinheiro> and with a Esc
[15:34] <njpatel> interesting, jaytaoko DBO does that ring a bell? ^
[15:34] <apinheiro> I receive a OnStartFocus
[15:35] <DBO> sounds like good sir taoko hooked up the signals backwards
[15:35] <jaytaoko> apinheiro: let me try to reproduce
[15:35] <apinheiro> didrocks told me that he noticed that "something" is grabbing the focus
[15:35] <apinheiro> jaytaoko, if you enable a11y
[15:35] <apinheiro> and g_debug is there
[15:36] <apinheiro> you would see on the terminal some messages when a object receives/lose the focus
[15:36] <jaytaoko> apinheiro: how do I enable a11y?
[15:36] <AndreaAzzarone> what about adding a "Umount" quicklist menu item to the device icon?
[15:36] <apinheiro> system->preferences->assistive technologies
[15:36] <apinheiro> or gconftool-2 --set "/desktop/gnome/interface/accessibility" -t bool true
[15:37] <AndreaAzzarone> *icons
[15:37] <apinheiro> but you would require to logout
[15:37] <apinheiro> as it is required at-spi to be running before
[15:39] <jaytaoko> apinheiro: ok, I will log out. brb
[15:49] <robtaylor> smspillaz: can you claify on 'adjust paths' please? :)
[15:56] <smspillaz> robtaylor: oh, as in PKG_CONFIG_PATH etc
[15:56] <smspillaz> I'll give you my dev-shell script
[15:56] <smspillaz> sec
[15:56] <jcastro> njpatel: congrats! \o/
[15:56] <jcastro> now let's get through these branches! :)
[16:02] <robtaylor> smspillaz: awesome :)
[16:02] <smspillaz> http://paste.ubuntu.com/581647/
[16:03] <smspillaz> that in your .bashrc ... "devmode" will set up everything for ~/Applications/Compiz
[16:04] <robtaylor> smspillaz: how do you deal with the plugins? just install all of them from source?
[16:04] <smspillaz> robtaylor: there's a script to do it all
[16:05] <smspillaz> robtaylor: git clone git://git.compiz.org/users/soreau/scripts
[16:05] <robtaylor> smspillaz: ah, that's what i need :)
[16:06] <robtaylor> smspillaz: you know, using stow in /usr/local is probably a bit easier than the ~/Applications/ route.. =)
[16:07] <smspillaz> robtaylor: not really, since the default PATH is in /usr/local
[16:07] <smspillaz> so if your local build gets screwed up, you're not always logging into a local build
[16:08] <robtaylor> smspillaz: ah, good point.
[16:08] <robtaylor> loicm: so, bug 729597 goes away for me if i disable modesetting
[16:08] <robtaylor> loicm: unfortunatly, so does unity..
[16:10] <loicm> robtaylor: interesting...
[16:10] <loicm> loicm: what about other OpenGL based applications?
[16:10] <loicm> robtaylor actually...
[16:10] <robtaylor> loicm: talking to yourself? ;)
[16:10] <loicm> :)
[16:11] <robtaylor> loicm: don't know yet..
[16:12] <robtaylor> loicm: it's entirely possible i'm seeing a different bug, as i'm on ATI, and this was reported on intel
[16:19] <njpatel> jcastro, urgh, I thought we reviewed the branches?
[16:19] <njpatel> jcastro, we were a man short today so maybe we missed some
[16:19] <njpatel> will get them reviewed and merged tomorrow
[16:19] <jcastro> https://code.launchpad.net/~slash-m3/unity/fix-bug-730623/+merge/53189
[16:19] <jcastro> https://code.launchpad.net/~thjaeger/unity/raise-maximized/+merge/52644
[16:37] <robtaylor> loicm: oh, no wasn't the modesetting that fixed it, it was compiz not starting. hah. hmm
[16:39] <robtaylor> didrocks: you might know this - is there a blacklist system we could use to switch off modesetting when we see certain graphics cards?
[16:41] <BigWhale> is there such thing as 'stable daily build' ppa for unity?
[16:42] <BigWhale> Something that is bleeding edge, but not broken. :)
[16:42] <robtaylor> BigWhale: surely there's no such thing? ;)
[16:43] <BigWhale> Well, it should be! :>
[16:44] <robtaylor> BigWhale: bleeding edge *and* not broken? =)
[16:44] <robtaylor> that's pretty hopeful..
[16:44] <aruiz> BigWhale, you can't have a pony
[16:44] <BigWhale> Hey, I wasn't asking for a pony... I was asking for unicorn!
[16:44] <robtaylor> BigWhale: actually, if you want the latest unity packages, and your using natty, you already have them
[16:45] <BigWhale> Underwater unicorn! Har har
[16:45] <BigWhale> robtaylor, I am using natty yes..
[16:46] <BigWhale> hm.. there's unity/daily .. let's try this ...
[16:46] <dbarth> klattimer: everything ok for releasing ido and indicator-datime?
[16:46] <klattimer> dbarth: yep, unless you want todays branch merged first
[16:46] <dbarth> kenvandine: do you need me to roll tarballs for any of those?
[16:47] <dbarth> klattimer: what's left unmerged?
[16:47] <klattimer> dbarth: lp:~karl-qdh/indicator-datetime/nopwdprompt
[16:47] <dbarth> klattimer: all reviewed already, or do you need reviews still?
[16:47] <klattimer> recently pushed
[16:47] <klattimer> just removes the password prompt to stop a segv in eds-ui
[16:47] <klattimer> very simple, you could review it in seconds ;)
[16:49] <kenvandine> dbarth, klattimer: we did releases for both ido and indicator-datetime yesterday
[16:49] <kenvandine> but i would be happy to do another today :)
[16:49] <klattimer> kenvandine: it's as very small patch to indicator-datetime
[16:50] <klattimer> its up to dbarth if it's worth it, it's a fix for his bug ;)
[16:50] <kenvandine> klattimer, did you see my ramblings this morning?
[16:50] <klattimer> kenvandine: nope?
[16:50] <klattimer> where should I have seen them?
[16:50] <kenvandine> here
[16:50] <kenvandine> i'll paste in a PM
[16:50] <kenvandine> hang on
[16:50] <dbarth> klattimer: i know, but i haven't tested that yet
[16:51] <klattimer> kenvandine: k
[16:54] <dbarth> klattimer: well, no it still crashes here; the service that is, not the indicator
[16:54] <dbarth> klattimer: anyway, if there was a release for both yesterday that's already that
[16:55] <dbarth> klattimer: i'll send further infos about the crash later today; switching to another call now
[17:23] <stefano-palazzo> kamstrup, are you around?
[17:25] <stefano-palazzo> the unity-places-python example doesn't run, doesn't show an error message; I wondered if you might help me sort it out
[17:27] <BigWhale> *sigh* gnome-settings-daemon is on strike again ...
[18:17] <Omega> OK, I'm getting the black screen now.
[18:18] <Omega> Daekdroom: It wasn't gdm or upstart it seems :< (I got the blackscreen even with them version locked)
[18:28] <kamstrup> stefano-palazzo: hi, here now
[18:28] <stefano-palazzo> hi
[18:28] <Daekdroom> Omega, I recall someone filing a report on it and the bug state is "Fix released", but earlier today it still happened to me.
[18:29] <Daekdroom> Omega, apparently it's the upstart update that broke gdm, let me find the report
[18:29] <stefano-palazzo> kamstrup, so, I'm working on my project now - everything seems to run very well indeed. When I first tried it out, I couldn't get it to display any changes to the model.
[18:29] <Daekdroom> bug 735805
[18:29] <stefano-palazzo> kamstrup, I think it had something to do with the order I did things in
[18:29] <kamstrup> stefano-palazzo: right, there is some trickiness in getting unity and everything restarted in the right order
[18:30] <Omega> Daekdroom: I had them both locked and it happened (unless I locked the faulty version)
[18:30] <Omega> Anyway, I'm in a tty survivng.
[18:30] <stefano-palazzo> Oh okay, so you know about my problems already? kamstrup
[18:30] <kamstrup> stefano-palazzo: but don't hesitate to report stuff you find odd or anything, I'm most interested in having the best developer experience
[18:30] <kamstrup> stefano-palazzo: maybe :-)
[18:31] <kamstrup> stefano-palazzo: and yes, i know, api docs - coming up :-)
[18:32] <kamstrup> stefano-palazzo: so is it a secret project, or can you spill some goodness? :-)
[18:32] <stefano-palazzo> kamstrup, I suppose I'm going to have slightly more trouble once I start with different categories and so on
[18:33] <stefano-palazzo> kamstrup, sure, I'm writing an lense for AskUbuntu.com; at the minute, I'm just doing an API search (in two minutes it'll be a google site-search) for questions, for each one of them append a new icon - more to come
[18:33] <kamstrup> stefano-palazzo: yeah, categories (aka sections) are maybe not the easiest concept to grok from an API pow, but once you get it it's pretty simple
[18:33] <kamstrup> stefano-palazzo: haha, awesome
[18:34] <stefano-palazzo> Oh one thing raised by Jorge a few minutes ago; Can I get rid of the springboard-icon and have one in the dash instead?
[18:34] <stefano-palazzo> (it's not called springboard anymore, is it ;))
[18:35] <jcastro> no it's the launcher again
[18:35] <stefano-palazzo> that's the one
[18:36] <stefano-palazzo> kamstrup, I really like the API so far, by the way; (the parts I checked out) behave exactly as I expected them to behave
[18:36] <kamstrup> stefano-palazzo: thanks, that's really nice to know
[18:38] <kamstrup> stefano-palazzo: i've written some quite powerful API wrappers for the Python Dee bindings
[18:38] <kamstrup> stefano-palazzo: there's a demo of the features here http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/dee/trunk/view/head:/examples/pythontricks.py
[18:39] <stefano-palazzo> great!
[18:40] <stefano-palazzo> that code looks brilliant; I'm sure It's going to be useful once I know what Dee is ;-)
[18:44] <kamstrup> stefano-palazzo: hehe, indeed
[18:45] <stefano-palazzo> now I'm running into a UX problem. I need to somehow show a meaningful title from the google search result, which is too long. "programming - how do ... python" doesn't look helpful at all
[18:45] <spikeb> heh it isn't
[18:50] <soreau> Ok guys, what is the magic incarnation to get unity panels to appear in natty?
[18:50] <spikeb> unity --plz-2-work
[18:50] <spikeb> ;)
[18:50] <soreau> I am having 'unity-panel-service: No process found'
[18:50] <soreau> and unity is looking very unfriendly
[18:51] <soreau> this message appears when running 'unity --replace'
[19:03] <coz_> hey all
[19:04] <kamstrup> stefano-palazzo: yeah, The API has the concept of "Renderers", for your situation you'd probably request that the Unity shell use a different renderer than the default to display your results... Only problem - we haven't got around to implementing alternative renderers yet :-/ Sorry dude...
[19:05] <kamstrup> stefano-palazzo: But if you file a bug against 'unity' describing your problem I'll back you up
[19:09] <stefano-palazzo> kamstrup, sure, I'll do that when I know more - and once we've thought about what sort of experience this should be
[19:09] <stefano-palazzo> I already have something quite usable, this is pretty rocking
[19:12] <Omega> Can anyone reproduce https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-scrollbar/+bug/736586
[19:14] <htorque> hello everyone! i'm experiencing bug 724986 with opera, but other than with other applications the launcher stays open until i close opera. is this an underlying problem with opera (i.e., should i report this upstream)?
[19:17] <kamstrup> stefano-palazzo: wicked!
[19:21] <kamstrup> htorque: i think you should file a separate bug
[19:21] <kamstrup> htorque: it might be the same, but again it might not
[19:22] <kamstrup> htorque: and by "bug" i mean against Unity in LP
[19:28] <aruiz> kenvandine, ping :-)
[19:30] <kenvandine> aruiz, pong
[19:31] <aruiz> kenvandine, all shortcuts are fixed now, in fact, they are more correct than in LibreOffice
[19:31] <aruiz> kenvandine, I'm rolling a tarball
[19:31] <aruiz> kenvandine, LO is not localizing the Shortcuts, my stuff gives the correct shortcuts
[19:31] <aruiz> :P
[19:31] <kenvandine> woot
[19:32] <kenvandine> rock on
[19:32] <aruiz> kenvandine, after this tarball, I'm cleaning up the code a bit and do a 0.1.0
[19:32] <aruiz> kenvandine, we should get people to test this
[19:32] <aruiz> kenvandine, also, I depend now on x11.pc and xproto.pc
[19:32] <kenvandine> ok
[19:32]  * aruiz makes the release
[19:33] <htorque> kamstrup, thanks, will do
[19:38] <aruiz> kenvandine, tarball rolled
[19:38] <aruiz> :-)
[19:38] <kenvandine> thx
[19:38]  * aruiz does the dance of all blockers fixed
[19:41] <kenvandine> aruiz, still no hope for appmenus in the new document UI right?
[19:42] <aruiz> kenvandine, gah!!! regression!!! don't package this :-)
[19:42] <aruiz> kenvandine, no hope indeed
[19:42] <kenvandine> ok... i'll hold off
[19:42] <kenvandine> 0.0.9 coming? :-D
[19:43] <aruiz> kenvandine, in any case, is not a big issue, the new document UI used to be hidden from the main menu with OpenOffice in Maverick
[19:43] <aruiz> I'm assuming it'll be the same in Natty
[19:43] <aruiz> I filed a bug about that
[19:43] <aruiz> kenvandine, most people go to the Writer/Calc/Whatnot item in the menu
[19:43] <jcastro> kamstrup: I got stefano-palazzo's place working
[19:43] <jcastro> it's pretty /awesome/
[19:43] <aruiz> kenvandine, or double click in a document
[19:43] <kenvandine> yeah
[19:43] <aruiz> kenvandine, so yeah, it will be nice, but it's not important IMHO
[19:44] <aruiz> kenvandine, yeah 0.0.9 comming
[19:44] <aruiz> kenvandine, I forgot to push something in one of my branches
[19:47] <kamstrup> jcastro: ha
[19:47] <kamstrup> jcastro: sweet! \o/
[19:47] <jcastro> it works great
[19:47] <jcastro> I am encoding a video of it now
[19:48] <kamstrup> jcastro: damn man, this makes my day!
[19:48] <jcastro> dude
[19:49] <jcastro> you should see how it works, it's SOOOO slick
[19:49] <jcastro> kamstrup: is there a way to make the icon for a place not show up in the launcher? I suspect for some of them people will just want to ++ their dash but not having it show up
[19:49] <kamstrup> jcastro: indeed put ShowEntry=false in the .place file
[19:50] <jcastro> perfect
[19:50] <Omega> jcastro: Let is know when that video's done :>
[19:50] <kamstrup> jcastro: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses#Registration for the gory details
[19:50] <jcastro> stefano-palazzo: FYI^
[19:52] <jcastro> kamstrup: http://blip.tv/dashboard/episode/4916738
[19:52] <aruiz> kenvandine, tarball rolled
[19:53] <kenvandine> aruiz, thx
[19:53] <aruiz> phew
[19:53] <aruiz> :-)
[19:54] <stefano-palazzo> kamstrup, thanks a lot
[19:54] <kamstrup> jcastro: I need a blip.tv account to see it?
[19:55] <jcastro> oh sorry, still processing
[19:56] <kamstrup> jcastro: processing time is probably quadrupled because I am refresh-flooding them
[19:57] <jcastro> http://blip.tv/file/get/Castrojo-AUPrototypePlace697.ogv
[19:57] <jcastro> can you get to that?
[19:57] <stefano-palazzo> kamstrup, so, I need a reffering site for the google-search API. I've put "unity.ubuntu.com" as a referrer to avoid abuse errors, now I should sign up for an API key. Is it proper for me to use "unity.ubuntu.com" for this?
[19:57] <kamstrup> stefano-palazzo: dunno... jcastro ^^?
[19:57] <jcastro> that's a good question
[19:57] <jcastro> ayatana-dev I think would be appropriate
[19:58] <jcastro> we should sort that out quickly
[19:58] <jcastro> I'll ask dbarth to respond
[19:59] <stefano-palazzo> jcastro, please do, I'm having a productivity-spree, better not interrupt it with signing up for the list and all that
[19:59] <stefano-palazzo> if you don't mind; else I'm just going to do it later - google's happy for now
[19:59] <stefano-palazzo> :)
[20:00] <kamstrup> jcastro: yup that worked - wicked!
[20:00] <kamstrup> stefano-palazzo: nice work!
[20:01] <stefano-palazzo> hey thanks :)
[20:01] <jcastro> stefano-palazzo: I'll do it
[20:01] <jcastro> stefano-palazzo: showing it to jono now
[20:03] <kenvandine> aruiz, did you bzr add lo-menubar-0.0.8.tar.bz2
[20:03] <kenvandine> ?
[20:03] <aruiz> did I?
[20:03] <kenvandine> it is in my merge for some reason :)
[20:04] <kenvandine> i didn't go looking though
[20:04] <aruiz> kenvandine, no, I didn't
[20:04] <kenvandine> ok
[20:04] <kenvandine> good :)
[20:05] <aruiz> kenvandine, ah, damn distcheck
[20:06] <kenvandine> whoops :)
[20:06] <aruiz> kenvandine, waf is not as clever as autotools in this regard
[20:06] <kenvandine> hehe
[20:06] <kenvandine> aruiz, well 0.0.9 is awesome!
[20:06] <aruiz> :-)
[20:06] <kenvandine> great work!
[20:06] <aruiz> thanks a lot
[20:07] <aruiz> I'll spend some time cleaning up the code before 0.1.0
[20:07] <aruiz> it's a bit messy at the moment and I want it to be maintanable
[20:08] <aruiz> kenvandine, is it okay if I replace the tarball?
[20:08] <kenvandine> aruiz, go ahead
[20:08] <kenvandine> aruiz, tell me when it is up
[20:08] <soreau> It's funny how something named unity can have quite the opposite effect
[20:09] <aruiz> kenvandine, done
[20:09] <kenvandine> aruiz, thx
[20:09] <aruiz> soreau, well, the applications in that shell feel more united
[20:09] <aruiz> soreau, in that regard I'm all for that name :-)
[20:09] <soreau> aruiz: Yea, when it's working..
[20:10] <soreau> Most of the time it's too busy making everyone's life a miserable living hell
[20:10] <aruiz> soreau, it's in development what did you expect?
[20:10]  * aruiz has to run
[20:10] <aruiz> kenvandine, poke me over here if you need anything, I'll be back in a while
[20:10]  * soreau knows no one really wants an answer to that question
[20:11] <kenvandine> aruiz, all is good
[20:16] <kamstrup> soreau: it's a *name*, you know dog biscuits are not made out of dogs?
[20:16] <kamstrup> ;-)
[20:17] <soreau> kamstrup: Yea, but dogs like dog biscuits
[20:18] <soreau> unity is just the devil in disguise to come and steal your children in the night
[20:18] <kamstrup> soreau: but it's unhealthy for them :-)
[20:18] <soreau> kamstrup: What brand?
[20:18] <kamstrup> frolick
[20:18] <soreau> I usually just give them graham crackers
[20:18] <soreau> nabisco
[20:20] <kamstrup> soreau: but what "opposite effect" are you refering to exactly?
[20:21] <soreau> kamstrup: The fact that I'm so frustrated with the project that I've worked for so long on
[20:21] <soreau> now canonical has come and swept it away, along with the lead developer and turned it into crap mush then stamped their name on it
[20:22] <jcastro> soreau: what issue do you have with unity?
[20:22] <jcastro> jono: ok I'm going to put together some instructions for trying the place out
[20:23] <jono> jcastro, awesome
[20:23] <kamstrup> soreau: so you worked on the 3d engine or the distro?
[20:23] <soreau> jcastro: It's total crap to begin with, the system starts and it doesn't know what or where it's panel is so I end up with a wallpaper and cursor. Then I have to start unity-panel-crap manually and it still doesn't work until I start compiz. After that, I try to use the panel. It's completely broken, can't even type in the damn thing
[20:23] <soreau> compiz crashes when enabling any plugin
[20:24] <soreau> the natty partitioner wont start and no one has responded to my bug
[20:24] <jcastro> ok so let's slow down here
[20:24] <jcastro> a) Partitioner problem isn't unity
[20:25] <jcastro> how are you starting your desktop? what session are you using? are you up to date, etc?
[20:26] <soreau> I had to install maverick and do-dist-upgrade thing just to get natty installed because the partitioner refuses to start at all
[20:26] <soreau> Now it's up-to-date as of today but it's just a complete waste of time and I don't know why I even thought I would be able to help by installing
[20:27] <kamstrup> soreau: i've had tonnes of issues with unity not starting. They have all been ABI issues because I had stuff installed from source with --prefix=/usr and there have been a long ride of ABI breaks in the unity stack
[20:27] <soreau> It's default session, but I have to make it my own because it doesn't work by default
[20:28] <jcastro> jono: ok so stefano-palazzo's going to update the README on it and roll a new tarball
[20:28] <kamstrup> soreau: with that attitude don't wonder why people don't answer your questions
[20:28] <jono> jcastro, cool :-)
[20:28] <soreau> kamstrup: Well for the past three months I've been asking please and trying to be nice and that hasn't worked at all
[20:28] <jcastro> jono: http://www-stud.uni-due.de/~sfstpala/askubuntu-place.tar.gz
[20:29] <soreau> i was patient, i waited
[20:29] <soreau> They have done nothing, so now I'm going to do something
[20:30] <jcastro> jono: look in the readme there, also, it's a flat file (whoops) so you should make a directory and then unpack it there
[20:31] <soreau> kamstrup: And now I'm being more assertive but this isn't working either.
[20:31] <jono> cheers jc
[20:31] <jono> cheers jcastro
[20:31] <jcastro> you need to copy this Dee.py from bazaar (you need to click download on the bazaar page, don't wget that)
[20:31] <soreau> So my synopsis is that, unity sucks and it's tearing the community apart
[20:31] <jcastro> and then copy things to the right place
[20:31] <jcastro> soreau: link to your bug reports?
[20:31] <soreau> jcastro: I don't know how to find them
[20:32] <soreau> After they're filed, they never send me an email
[20:32] <soreau> so I know it hasn't been responded to
[20:32] <jcastro> what's your launchpad username?
[20:32] <soreau> and it's somewhere in the big stack of ubuntu bugs -> /dev/null
[20:32] <soreau> jcastro: soreau, I assume
[20:33] <soreau> I really just cannot believe this
[20:33] <soreau> Firefox has just disappeared
[20:33] <jcastro> there's no lp user by that name
[20:33] <soreau> unmapped and poof
[20:33] <soreau> it's running, I can hear it, but the window is gone
[20:34] <soreau> jcastro: try oreaus
[20:34] <soreau> jcastro: Or is it supposed to be an email address?
[20:34] <jcastro> that works
[20:35] <jcastro> I found it
[20:36] <soreau> How can I even use this if my windows just disappear
[20:36] <soreau> I guess I'm not supposed to use this
[20:36] <jcastro> DBO: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/587693
[20:36] <jcastro> and
[20:36] <jcastro> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/587696
[20:37] <soreau> Where is my browser window and how do I get it back?
[20:37] <DBO> jcastro, ugly
[20:37] <soreau> There should be a way to remap all windows
[20:37] <soreau> So they don't go MIA
[20:38] <stefano-palazzo> jono, you can ping me if there are any issues, this code is changing pretty rapidly so please let me know about any errors or anything that bugs you
[20:38] <jcastro> stefano-palazzo: I've got it working just right
[20:38] <jono> thanks stefano-palazzo, this is cool :-)
[20:38] <jcastro> going to bang on it for a little bit
[20:39] <jono> stefano-palazzo, do I still need to install Dee.py?
[20:39] <jono> or is that now shipped in Natty?
[20:39] <stefano-palazzo> jono, yes, as of three hours ago you do
[20:39] <jcastro> kamstrup: how come we need this blingy new Dee? Didn't make a release this week or ... ?
[20:43] <jono> stefano-palazzo, right, so that requirement will go away with the next Unity upload?
[20:43] <stefano-palazzo> jono, I suppose so - not sure, kamstrup may know more
[20:44] <jcastro> stefano-palazzo: can you shove it in bzr on lp sometime when you get home or whatever?
[20:44]  * jcastro schemes
[20:44] <stefano-palazzo> i will jcastro
[20:45] <jono> kamstrup, any idea?
[20:45] <stefano-palazzo> You know, If I could talk to someone who knows a lot about UX for a few minutes, that'd be absolutely brilliant. Do any of you know anyone who may have some time for this?
[20:45] <stefano-palazzo> I'd hate to have done it all wrong (:
[20:46] <jcastro> it looks right to me, the only thing is in the lens itself, the top right dropdown thing only shows Questions
[20:46] <jcastro> maybe that needs to be categories of questions or something
[20:48] <stefano-palazzo> jcastro, Not sure what I can put there at all, even "questions" seems wrong - since I'm showing tags and helpful links
[20:48] <kamstrup> jcastro: Dee-0.5.16 hit the archives a few hours ago
[20:49] <stefano-palazzo> And, as it is at the moment, only showing few results seems very nice to me, the right one usually shows up thanks to google
[20:50] <soreau> What a piece of crap man
[20:50] <jcastro> soreau: what are you trying to accomplish, getting no help?
[20:50] <soreau> jcastro: and that doesn't look like any of my bugs
[20:50] <jcastro> your attitude isn't really helping
[20:50] <kamstrup> jono, jcastro, stefano-palazzo: Afaik you don't need to install Dee.py since around 0.5.14 or 0.5.16-sumtin
[20:50] <jcastro> you have a bug, sorry
[20:51] <soreau> jcastro: Well what am I supposed to say, 'Hey, you guys are doing a really great job! Love all the new crash features!'??
[20:51] <jcastro> you can start by trying to find a solution to your problem
[20:51] <jcastro> see if you can find someone else with it
[20:51] <jcastro> debug it
[20:51] <jcastro> see if you can get apport to submit crash data
[20:51] <jcastro> ask someone on the ubuntu bugs mailing list to help you debug it
[20:51] <nhaines> Can I play too?  UI freeze in in a week, I'm looking forward to seeing the new natty artwork drop in three weeks!  :)
[20:52] <jono> soreau, relax
[20:53] <soreau> jono: I'm not sure that's an option right now
[20:53] <jono> soreau, it is always an option
[20:53] <jono> it is software
[20:53] <nhaines> soreau: I know Unity was really breaky in the beginning... I couldn't even run it until two and a half weeks ago.  But it's really shaping up and the devs here do their best to be helpful.
[20:53] <soreau> partitioner bug is a *big* problem for me
[20:53] <jono> soreau, not denying it is a problem, but there is no reason we can't all be friends :-)
[20:53] <soreau> jono: Shyea, I wish
[20:54] <soreau> nhaines: Where? Could you please tell me where there is help
[20:54] <soreau> I would like to find this magical place
[20:54] <kamstrup> soreau: why are you here?
[20:54] <jcastro> stefano-palazzo: I'll have a think of what sections should be where.
[20:55] <kamstrup> soreau: is it because you want help or is it because you want to flame random people?
[20:55] <soreau> kamstrup: I want unity to quit vomiting on my desktop and actually work
[20:55] <kamstrup> soreau: so it's the latter
[20:55] <stefano-palazzo> thanks jcastro
[20:55] <soreau> I can't even startx without it screwing me
[20:55] <jcastro> soreau: you might want to consider testing 11.04 wehn it's closer to release
[20:55] <soreau> jcastro: When's that going to be, october?
[20:55] <kamstrup> soreau: if you lacak the technical skills to run with a devel release - then don't run a devel release
[20:56] <soreau> Because by the looks of it, it needs another good 6 months in the oven
[20:56] <nhaines> soreau: the Unity devs here are nice and helpful, but they need information if they're going to look into bugs and other problem.s
[20:56] <nhaines> soreau: and the partitioner has nothing to do with Unity.
[20:56] <nhaines> soreau: does a daily live CD run okay?
[20:57] <soreau> nhaines: What other information can I provide? I start the system and it's mouse cursor and wallpaper. unity can't find/start it's panel-service and even after manually starting it, it still doesn't work until I killall -9 unity and start compiz
[20:57] <soreau> nhaines: I wish I could figure out how to get a daily cd
[20:57] <nhaines> soreau: I can help with that.
[20:57] <vish> !daily
[20:57] <soreau> it's so slow to download, it takes like 10 hours
[20:57] <nhaines> vish: aw, no fun.  :)
[20:58] <soreau> nhaines: I'm still listening
[20:58] <vish> ;)
[20:58] <nhaines> soreau: so take the latest one you have and use zsync to just grab the changes.  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ZsyncCdImage
[20:59] <nhaines> soreau: did you say you upgraded from maverick to natty?  What steps did you take to do this?
[20:59] <soreau> I just know I'm going to end this day by killing someone
[21:00] <soreau> nhaines: I had to install maverick just to do--dist-upgrade or whatever because natty's partitioner refuses to start
[21:01] <nhaines> soreau: what was your natty installation source?
[21:01] <soreau> nhaines: I am working on it
[21:01] <stefano-palazzo> jcastro, maybe the first section could be "Get Answers", containing all you see now, and the second section could be "Currently on AskUbuntu", containing newest, active, highest voted, your profile and so on
[21:01] <soreau> Trying to find my browser here
[21:03] <soreau> what's the diff with -live
[21:03] <nhaines> soreau: that's the one you want.  The other is the alternate install CD.
[21:03] <nhaines> Good for upgrading (has packages) and fun stuff (lets you set advanced install options).
[21:04] <soreau> Bah
[21:04] <soreau> This is the one that takes like<PHONE_NUMBER>34623 hours to download
[21:05] <soreau> I already downloaded twice and deleted the images out of frustration
[21:05] <soreau> over the past few months
[21:05] <soreau> It is killing me very much
[21:05] <jcastro> you need to upgrade like every day if you're testing, if you're reporting bugs on older images that doesn't work well
[21:05] <jono> soreau, the culture of our community is constructive discussion and solving of problems - if you are not willing to be constructive, I suggest you try another distro
[21:05] <jono> it is all Free Software after all :-)
[21:06] <soreau> Well that's a really poor attitude
[21:06] <kamstrup> lol
[21:06] <soreau> I hope you're happy with your stench
[21:06] <jono> soreau, being constructive, not at all?
[21:06] <jono> soreau, but bickering and whinging is *not* helpful
[21:06] <soreau> jono: No, the 'its free so who cares?' part
[21:06] <jono> soreau, that is not what I said
 soreau, the culture of our community is constructive discussion and solving of problems
 it is all Free Software after all :-) <--
[21:07] <soreau> That part
[21:07] <jono> soreau, well, it is
[21:07] <jono> what I am saying is that if you don't like Ubuntu, no worries, use another distro
[21:07] <soreau> Besides, I'm not bickering, I'm just complaining and venting and trying to get natty working
[21:07] <jono> it is not like you have to use closed source
[21:07] <soreau> I don't understand why you need a new image and updates wont work
[21:07] <nhaines> soreau: I'm not sure I'd agree with the third one.
[21:07] <jono> soreau, right, and frustrating is fine, but show some respect
[21:08] <nhaines> soreau: a new image will run in memory.  If it works, then we know we can look at your configuration on your system.
[21:08] <jono> soreau, we are just asking you to be nice and constructive in solving the problems you are experiencing :-)
[21:08] <nhaines> soreau: As a troubleshooting step it narrows things down immensely.
[21:09] <jcastro> yeah sounds like you should just try a new liveCD
[21:11] <nhaines> soreau: and take this in the spirit intended, but if a new liveCD works, then the Ubuntu devs can continue to focus on existing bugs rather than older ones that have already been solved.
[21:12] <Davidc_3> stefano-palazzo, I'm testing your place, it looks great. I haven't been able to read the full conversation here, but a nice feature would be a differentiation between answered and unanswered questions.
[21:12] <nhaines> soreau: and you might find that you have a working installer and environment in a new live CD.  That would be less stressful for you as well.  :)
[21:12] <soreau> nhaines: Yes yes yes, I know. It's just IRL issues that I really can't do anything about and I just feel like strangling something in close proximity
[21:12] <jcastro> Davidc_3: we were just thinking about that
[21:13] <Davidc_3> jcastro, oh great :)
[21:13] <jcastro> Davidc_3: we just had another idea
[21:13] <jcastro> let's say you get an error dialog
[21:13] <jcastro> in a program
[21:13] <jcastro> wouldn't it be awesome if you could just highlight the text, drag and drop it on the place
[21:13] <jcastro> and have it do a search on that text
[21:14] <jcastro> automatically
[21:14] <Davidc_3> Absolutely cool.
[21:14] <jcastro> nhaines: high five me, you know that rocks.
[21:14] <nhaines> soreau: I wish I could help with the IRL issues.  All I can do is give the advice that sometimes that's a good time to walk away from computer testing for a while and clear your mind.
[21:14]  * nhaines high fives jcastro.
[21:14] <stefano-palazzo> Davidc_3, We've been discussing unanswered question in the AskUbuntu chat, it's definitely up for debate and on our minds - thanks a lot for the suggestion
[21:15] <jcastro> Davidc_3: an easy one to sort now would be the sections (the dropdown thing on the top right)
[21:15] <jcastro> that's pretty straightforward
[21:15] <stefano-palazzo> kamstrup, sorry to bother you again, How can I get the currently active section in the _update_results_model callback?
[21:15] <kamstrup> stefano-palazzo: let me see...
[21:15] <stefano-palazzo> oh right, that's one thing that isn't obvious ;)
[21:16] <kamstrup> stefano-palazzo: you need the entry to get at that
[21:16] <kamstrup> entry.props.active_section I think
[21:16] <Davidc_3> jcastro, Indeed.
[21:17] <kamstrup> stefano-palazzo: and then to listen for changes somthing like entry.connect("notify::active-section", my_callback, arg...)
[21:17] <Davidc_3> stefano-palazzo, your code is very instructive. As I'm a python noob trying to make a place. :)
[21:17] <jcastro> Davidc_3: awesome dude, you came to the right place.
[21:18] <jcastro> Davidc_3: what are the chances that you know the google doc API?
[21:18] <Davidc_3> jcastro, I don't.
[21:20] <jcastro> Davidc_3: we have a list of ideas if you want to take a shot at one: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses/Ideas
[21:21] <Davidc_3> jcastro, yep. Mine is the Library one.
[21:21] <stefano-palazzo> kamstrup, that seems to work, it gives me a gobject.GParamSpec, am I on the page?
[21:21] <jcastro> Davidc_3: ah, rock
[21:22] <kamstrup> stefano-palazzo: right - you get the object and a paramspec as arguments - normally you just ignore those
[21:23] <jcastro> kamstrup: wrt what I said before, is it possible to pass things from the clipboard into a place?
[21:23] <kamstrup> stefano-palazzo: just look up the value manually like entry.props.active_section inside the changed callback
[21:24] <kamstrup> jcastro: hmmmm... afaik you have to manually poll the clipboard... it's some deeper X issue I think... DBO prolly knows the gritty details
[21:24] <stefano-palazzo> kamstrup, that works great, thanks for your time
[21:24] <DBO> what now?
[21:24] <kamstrup> DBO: hehe, there's not way to get callbacks "on-clipboard-changed" right?
[21:25] <DBO> no
[21:25] <kamstrup> one has to manually poll it
[21:25] <DBO> well...
[21:25] <DBO> you can be exceptionally evil if you desire
[21:25] <DBO> but no, not really
[21:25] <kamstrup> lol
[21:26] <Davidc_3> #noobquestion can't you ask, let's say, parcellite for that?
[21:28] <jcastro> yeah but something that works ootb is preferable
[21:28] <jcastro> anyway, that'd be UDS-O-discussion territory
[21:28] <DBO> kamstrup, btw, Im just flattered you think I might know more than you on anything :P
[21:28] <jcastro> we can probably just concentrate on basic ones for now, then collect a bunch of things Place authors want
[21:40] <jfi> kenvandine, Hi! Is your unity code for xchat is available somewhere? I would to take a look exactly to the way your are detecting a nickname in a canal.
[21:42] <kamstrup> DBO: nah, when it comes to X, you're like the sage in book :-)
[21:43] <DBO> thats like being the best at Ebola
[21:57] <kamstrup> DBO: lol, and with that I bid you goodnight :-D
[23:02] <danyR> stefano-palazzo: just tried your askubuntu place, looking great. congratulations :)
[23:13] <rbnswartz> DBO you around?
[23:54] <jcastro> DBO: I'm in -meeting, ALL SET.


[12:24] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[20:43] <valorie> seems like all the other function keys work properly, but brightness still not
[20:44] <valorie> the battery & brightness widget appears to work, but like the function key indicator, it doesn't affect the brightness of the screen at all
[21:04] <RikMills> odd
[21:05] <RikMills> fyi, I have a recent grumbling GPU fan on focal, so *shrug*
[21:06] <RikMills> I think the bearings are not very happy
[21:11] <valorie> well one of my fans isn't happy either, and it did happen after I upgraded to jammy but I don't think that is connected
[21:11] <valorie> after I shut off the machine, took off the case and blew out a bit of dust it is generally better
[21:12] <valorie> but zoom plus browsers sometimes makes it grumble
[22:00] <RikMills> valorie: similar here. GPU load makes it complain


[01:29] <infinity> zequence: Your upload had a single bit-flip.  The git repo on github is fine, but there was a single bitflip on your hard drive (or in RAM when building the package).
[01:29] <infinity> zequence: I'm going to re-upload directly to the kernel PPA from git once I've tested it builds locally.  You might want to check your hardware.
[02:56] <shadeslayer> apw: I see, follow up question, would linux and linux-meta be enough if I upload a saucy kernel to the raring pocket of a PPA?
[02:56] <shadeslayer> or do I need to backport more things?
[02:56] <shadeslayer> ( I've test built both those packages in a pbuilder, they built fine )
[03:56] <infinity> zequence: All fixed up now.
[03:59] <zequence> infinity: ok, thanks. I don't think I mentioned to anyone I had moved the git repos to a project on github, but I guess you found out on your own.
[03:59] <zequence> this HD is only about 2 years old. I've only twice had problems with git repos on another HD, but never on this one. But, I guess one bit is all that it takes to screw it up.
[04:00] <zequence> not that it was a problem with the git repo, only that is how I've noticed corruption in the past
[04:01] <zequence> might be smart to test locally before uploading I guess
[04:06] <shadeslayer> odd, I can't even get debuild to spit out the right files :S
[05:21] <infinity> zequence: If you're doing it on a consumer-grade PC or laptop without ECC RAM, the bitflip could just be a normal consequence of using a computer, it might not be dying hardware.
[05:21] <infinity> zequence: Still worth a check, though.
[05:21] <infinity> zequence: (And if that file's corrupt in your local checkout, you'll want to re-clone, or at least replace the corrupt file)
[05:22] <infinity> zequence: Anyhow, it's all in -proposed now, and ready for the binaries to be tested whenever.
[05:22] <ohsix> if it managed to make it to software, dmesg and smart should show something, too
[05:38] <zequence> infinity: right. ECC. Well, I'm not running server hardware here, but I should probably look at enhancing security a bit :)
[05:43] <zequence> ohsix: dmesg didn't show anything.
[05:43] <zequence> I just realized these are the same memory sticks though. I should probably check them
[05:44] <zequence> (..the same sticks as when I had problems on another machine)
[05:44] <infinity> ohsix: How would dmesg know about a bit flip in non-ECC RAM?
[05:45] <ohsix> it wouldn't, nor a miswrite to the disk, but there are a lot more likely things to have happened than a random bit flip
[05:45] <ohsix> unless you're at 40000 feet ;]
[05:45] <infinity> Random bitflips are more common than people think.
[05:45] <ohsix> or near an alpha source
[05:45] <infinity> If only cking was around to cite the source he quoted last time this came up.
[05:46] <infinity> But background radiation leads to a lore more flips than people assume.
[05:47] <ohsix> http://www.jedec.org/sites/default/files/docs/jesd89a.pdf probably way more than you want to know about what jedec has to say about testing for soft errors
[05:48] <ohsix> even if they were 1000x more likely than people think, it'd still be less than other sources of errors that you can check first :p
[05:48] <infinity> Well, I did point out that failing RAM or a failing disk were worth checking for.
[05:49] <infinity> But it's not worth tearing one's hair out looking for failing hardware that isn't, either.  Cosmic rays happen.
[05:49] <ohsix> heh
[05:52] <ohsix> consumer hard drive uncorrectable bit error rates are only 10e-14, you can check the smart test logs and the status for raw read error rate/reallocated ector count and be pretty confident that it's not it
[05:53] <ohsix> there's a paper somewhere where google gathered statistics on soft errors in all the ECC/registered dram they used
[05:54] <ohsix> if you look to see specifically what DRAM is on your memory widgets you can get the jedec measured numbers for the geometry from the vendor ;D
[06:02] <infinity> ohsix: Ahh, yes, it was Google's study I was thinking of.
[06:02] <infinity> "Our first observation is that memory errors are not rare
[06:02] <infinity> events. About a third of all machines in the fleet experience
[06:02] <infinity> at least one memory error per year (see column CE Incid.
[06:02] <infinity> %) and the average number of correctable errors per year
[06:02] <infinity> is over 22,000"
[06:03] <ohsix> yup
[06:04] <ohsix> in the aggregate, they leave all the details about what you could infer from a single module out, pretty much; aside from the table that shows a breakdown between ddr1/2/3
[06:04] <infinity> Now, to be fair, on a non-ECC machine, the most common results of a bit-flip will be either "you don't notice", "you get a segfault", or "your system crashes", but an unlucky write it possible.
[06:04] <infinity> s/it/is/
[06:05] <ohsix> if you have a petabyte of ram and you average it across the number of dimms you have ;]
[06:06] <infinity> Given how little of what gets shuffled around in RAM ever ends up on disk, "you don't notice" (or, you notice, but it's some random character corrupted on screen, etc) is probably the most common result.
[06:06] <infinity> And most people would forget seeing such a thing once a year, if they saw it at all.
[06:06] <ohsix> you can't really ignore the die size and sheer quantity of them when assessing if it's likely to happen to you, like i said; you need to get the specific DRAM datasheet to look for the soft error rate, they're all 'jedec' standard parts, but they have very different ratings for soft error rates depending on geometry and layout
[06:06] <ohsix> lets not forget that a harddrive has dram in it
[06:07] <ohsix> so you get the double whammy! :p
[06:08] <ohsix> though with new ssd's and the scsi stuff for end to end integrity you can know a lot about even that, if you need to (*cough* commercial)
[08:09] <shadeslayer> anyone around to help out a bit? if I do pull-lp-source linux , modify the changelog to build against raring and then run debuild -S -sd , there is no .dsc file to sign
[08:09] <shadeslayer> and hence dput fails
[08:09] <shadeslayer> I don't quite understand what's going wrong
[08:10] <hyperair> read the error messages
[08:10] <apw> shadeslayer, well presumably the build fails, so can you pastebin the whole debuild -S output
[08:10] <shadeslayer> apw: huh? the build works fine pbuilder
[08:11] <apw> shadeslayer, probabally it is probabally because you have not said -nc and do not have the build-deps installed
[08:11] <shadeslayer> hyperair: but a .changes file is generated
[08:11] <shadeslayer> hm
[08:11] <apw> shadeslayer, just because debuild is dumb, doesn't mean it worked
[08:11] <shadeslayer> heh, okay
[08:11]  * shadeslayer will try with -nc
[08:13] <hyperair> odd, i didn't think that .changes would be generated.
[08:13] <shadeslayer> apw: and I just need linux and linx-meta
[08:13] <shadeslayer> roght?
[08:13] <shadeslayer> *right
[08:14] <apw> shadeslayer, 'need' is a difficult word, some releases have lbm as well depending
[08:14] <hyperair> wasn't there some script that automatically installs the build-deps of a source package?
[08:14] <hyperair> i keep forgetting, since i just throw the entire thing into sbuild
[08:15] <shadeslayer> -nc seems to have done the trick
[08:18] <shadeslayer> apw: lbm?
[08:18] <shadeslayer> ah
[08:18] <shadeslayer> linux-backports-modules
[08:20] <shadeslayer> apw: anything else?
[08:23] <apw> shadeslayer, not that i can think of right now
[08:23] <shadeslayer> ok
[08:24] <shadeslayer> thx
[08:24] <apw> shadeslayer, though can't you just pocket copy the source if all you are doing is rebuilding it
[08:24] <shadeslayer> oh
[08:24] <shadeslayer> I don't see a LP option to do that
[08:26] <apw> shadeslayer, cirtainly it can be done, it is possible you cannot pull from the main archive without using the archive tools thingy
[08:27] <shadeslayer> well, yeah, I know it can be done, I just don't see a way to do it from the web interface :)
[08:30] <apw> shadeslayer, i think you might have to use copy-package
[08:31] <shadeslayer> yep, looking at that
[08:31] <shadeslayer> though .. does it do a no rebuild copy
[08:32] <shadeslayer> ah no, there's a separate option for that
[08:39] <shadeslayer> odd
[08:39] <shadeslayer> apw: gives me a key error on 'saucy' http://paste.kde.org/757184/
[08:42] <infinity> shadeslayer: You want "-s saucy", not "-d"... Distribution in that context is "ubuntu" or "debian".
[08:43] <infinity> shadeslayer: And --to-suite instead of --to-distribution, too.
[08:43] <shadeslayer> oh
[08:43] <infinity> shadeslayer: And no need to mention component at all, since PPAs have no concept of them anyway.
[08:43] <shadeslayer> yeah
[08:44] <shadeslayer> hurray, thanks alot :)
[08:44] <infinity> (And do you really want to rebuild it?  A copy-with-binaries would be much friendlier on the buildds, if the goal is just to have the saucy kernel in a raring PPA)
[08:47] <shadeslayer> infinity: too late :(
[08:47] <shadeslayer> plus buildds seem pretty empty
[08:47] <infinity> shadeslayer: Not too late if it isn't building.  You could delete it and re-copy.  But, you can always copy better next time. :)
[08:48] <shadeslayer> infinity: newb question, but won't different gcc versions affect the build?
[08:48] <infinity> shadeslayer: In theory.  In practice, upstream tries really hard to make that not true.
[08:48] <infinity> shadeslayer: But since the kernel we build in the primary archive is the one that gets heavily QAed, it's generally in your best interest not to rebuild your own, IMO.
[08:49] <infinity> Better to share the bugs that millions of people have than share a weird new bug with 20 PPA users.
[08:51] <shadeslayer> infinity: yeah, I can understand, however a derivative *really really* wants the 3.9 kernel since the 3.8 one is causing kernel panics for them
[08:52] <infinity> shadeslayer: Sure, just arguing against rebuilding, that's all.  But, as you say, a bit too late, since it's already building.
[08:52] <infinity> shadeslayer: Are their panics reproducible in a way that one could bisect with them?
[08:52] <infinity> (And is there a bug filed?)
[08:53] <shadeslayer> well, they said that their issues go away on 3.9
[08:53] <shadeslayer> but I'll ask if it's possible for them to file a bug
[08:53] <infinity> Sure, and that's cool for them, but we're still supporting 3.8 for 8 months, would be nice to fix it. ;)
[08:54] <shadeslayer> *nod*
[08:57] <shadeslayer> I also haven't heard back on bug 1171940 even though I supplied all the info :(
[08:57] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1171940 in linux (Ubuntu) "vgaswitcheroo on the Macbook Pro 8,2" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1171940
[08:57] <shadeslayer> patch wasn't there on 3.9.1 ... haven't checked after that
[09:09] <apw> shadeslayer, have you any idea just how many open bugs we have on the kernel?
[09:12] <apw> shadeslayer, have you tested that patch and confirmed it fixes the issue ?
[09:13] <apw> ie are you going by more than the description of the patch
[10:28] <shadeslayer> apw: yes, I've tested it and it does indeed fix the issue
[10:29] <apw> shadeslayer, it would be helpful to put that in the bug, as it was not clear to me
[10:29] <shadeslayer> can do
[11:32]  * ppisati -> out for lunch
[12:03] <apw> henrix, sconklin, bjf[afk], i am just playing with the cve-autotriager to sort out the issues with "-proposed kernels which never released" versions begin included
[12:03] <apw> so you may want to ignore it for a bit, as i suspect it will be slapping things about for a bit
[12:03] <henrix> apw: ack, thanks
[13:41]  * henrix will be out for a bit
[16:50]  * ppisati goes out for a bit
[16:55] <ogra> hmm, where do i find the git tree for linux-grouper ?
[16:55] <ogra> seatching on kernel.u.c doesnt reveal anything regarding grouper
[16:55] <ogra> (same for maguro)
[17:12] <cking> ogra, http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-saucy.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/grouper perhaps is what you want?
[17:12] <ogra> perfect, thanks
[17:13]  * ogra tries to find out why that one doesnt boot with flipped container (natively into an ubuntu rootfs)
[17:13] <ogra> maguro works flawless ... i'm wondering if its a kernel config issue
[18:49] <apw> ogra, they are all in saucy
[18:50] <apw> ogra, most likley, it is very hard to get them the same with them all being random versions
[18:50] <ogra> apw, i only want to see the config, not start a download orgy
[18:50] <ogra> :P
[18:50] <apw> it is in /boot on the device
[18:51] <ogra> it isnt
[18:51] <ogra> we dont have the package installe on the images
[18:51] <ogra> *installed
[18:54] <apw> ogra, then you'll need either the binary package which has it in, or your'll need the source
[18:54] <ogra> yes
[18:54] <ogra> or just look at git with a browser
[21:39] <jono> ogasawara, hey
[21:39] <jono> I just saw on G+ that someone got bitten by https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/798086
[21:39] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 798086 in linux (Ubuntu) "Occasional "The disk drive for /dev/mapper/cryptswap1 is not ready yet or not present" on system startup" [Medium,Confirmed]
[21:39] <jono> it seems to be a few years old, would you folks mind taking a look into it?\
[21:43] <ogasawara> jono: sure, I'll ask jsalisbury to follow up
[21:43] <jono> thanks ogasawara
[23:42] <jsalisbury> jono, ogasawara I'll take a look at that bug
[23:48] <jono> thanks jsalisbury
[23:49] <jsalisbury> jono, np.  If possible, can you also email me the g+ link
[23:49] <jono> jsalisbury, https://plus.google.com/u/1/117353980479250980339/posts/TFneH4qPrik
[23:49] <jsalisbury> jono, thanks
[23:49] <jono> if you could hop on that thread and follow up that would be great
[23:49] <jono> just shows we care :-)
[23:53] <jsalisbury> jono, done.  and we do care ;-)
[23:55] <jono> thanks jsalisbury :-)


[15:14] <mup> PR operator#978 closed: Replace `typing.AnyStr` with `Union[str, bytes]` <Created by sobolevn> <Merged by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/978>
[16:03] <mup> Issue operator#969 closed: Support unified charmcraft.yaml <Created by syu-w> <Closed by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/969>
[16:03] <mup> PR operator#977 closed: Support reading charmcraft.yaml in testing harness <Created by syu-w> <Merged by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/977>


[14:10] <gregpol> hey guys, I added “kill timeout 620”  into /etc/init/job.conf  to make it sending SIGKILL in 620 sec instead of 5 as default but it does not do the job. Any thoughts?


[03:53] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[05:27] <lotuspsychje> !contribute
[05:38] <lotuspsychje> !no contribute is <reply> To contribute and help out with Ubuntu, see https://ubuntu.com/community/contribute and https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/contribute-to-ubuntu-development/37746
[05:38] <lotuspsychje> Your edit request has been forwarded to #ubuntu-ops.  Thank you for your attention to detail
[05:42] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: ^ :D
[05:42] <lotuspsychje> : )
[10:16] <user_py15> WARNING: The script pytesseract is installed in '/home/xyz/.local/bin' which is not on PATH.
[10:16] <user_py15> Consider adding this directory to PATH or, if you prefer to suppress this warning, use --no-warn-script-location.
[10:16] <user_py15> Hi, is there any way I can solve the above problem?
[18:26] <leftyfb> oerheks: sorry, but zphinx contributed nothing other than attitude
[18:26] <oerheks> oke, but even that helped clearing things up
[18:26] <oerheks> i wonder why #docker did not help
[18:27] <leftyfb> because it's not a docker problem
[18:27] <leftyfb> it's a bespoke image problem
[18:29] <oerheks> this Hesco guy seems the maker of that image?
[18:29] <oerheks> he said code base built over five or six years based on phusion/baseimage
[18:30] <oerheks> from the very start
[18:31] <leftyfb> no, even worse. He's built a puppet manifest with that bespoke image as it's base
[18:32] <oerheks> i am not that good nor interested in docker actually.
[18:35] <leftyfb> zphinx just doesn't follow what's going on at all
[19:07] <lotuspsychje> !no contribute is <reply> To contribute and help out with Ubuntu, see https://ubuntu.com/community/contribute and https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/contribute-to-ubuntu-development/37746