[09:48] <ndec> ogra_: hi. do you mind if i cancel the call today?
[09:49] <ndec> if you think there is anything we need to discuss, let me know
[10:23] <ogra_> ndec, feel free, i dont have anything special
[13:05] <brax> is there anybody that has 5 minutes to help me with a xrandr issue?
[16:26] <prpplague> ogra_: yea, package updates have fixed my desktop issues!
[16:26] <ogra_> awesome !
[16:27] <prpplague> ogra_: actually have to reload my box at home, i fudged up and hosed the permissions for /usr
[16:27] <ogra_> ouch !
[16:37] <danboid> Looks like I need to recompile my panda kernel just to get ALSA sequencer support so what kernel version would you guys recommend and why?
[16:37] <ogra_> the one your release has already
[16:38] <GrueMaster> danboid: What issues are you seeing?  Precise Beta 1 works for both Panda/Panda ES ootb.
[16:38] <ogra_> danboid, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile
[16:39] <ogra_> just use the source package
[16:39] <danboid> GrueMaster, None of the current Linaro or Canonical omap4 kernels have ALSA sequencer support compiled in or as a module
[16:39] <GrueMaster> (which I just discovered is broken in the daily images...again.)
[16:40] <ogra_> right, who needs MIDI anyway :P
[16:40] <ogra_> as long as your mp3's play
[16:40] <ogra_> danboid, thats seriously worth filing a bug though
[16:41] <danboid> As I've said before, Panda could be quite attractive to Linux musicians due to its silent aspect (if you use a SSD )
[16:41] <ogra_> yeah, agreed, i was rather sarcastic above, not serious
[16:41] <danboid> I'm hoping to use if for music production anyway
[16:42] <ogra_> so a) file a bug, b) follow the wiki t recompile the kernel package with a config change
[16:42] <danboid> ogra_, jk- said this has been fixed already
[16:42] <ogra_> in the ubuntu package ?
[16:42] <ogra_> ppisati, ^^^ did you enable alsa sequencer support in the config ?
[16:42] <danboid> ogra_, I presume so but he's not been around today to give more info
[16:42]  * ogra_ doesnt think so
[16:44] <danboid> If I want the pvr driver working am I best recompiling the standard kernel rather than going for the latest stable code?
[16:45] <ppisati> i'm here
[16:46] <danboid> ppisati, I was told the latest omap4 kernel configs have ALSA sequencer support enabled now?
[16:47] <danboid> ppisati, If so, can I get a package anywhere of such  a kernel yet?
[16:50] <GrueMaster> danboid: I see CONFIG_SND_SEQ_DUMMY=m in the current precise kernel.
[16:50] <GrueMaster> And CONFIG_SND_SEQUENCER=M as well.
[16:50] <ppisati> sorry, was in a phone call
[16:51] <danboid> GrueMaster, That'd do me but I expect I can't install a precise kernel under oneiric can I?
[16:51] <GrueMaster> So you should be able to get the kernel either from a daily image or from http://ports.ubuntu.com.  ppisati can point you to the git tree if you really want to go deep.
[16:51] <ppisati> danboid: yes you can
[16:51] <GrueMaster> Why not?
[16:51] <danboid> Hasn't armel been killed off in precise?
[16:52] <GrueMaster> Just use the armel kernel variant (so as not to confuse dpkg).
[16:52] <GrueMaster> Only the image builds.
[16:52] <GrueMaster> Pool is still active, and I also regularly do netboot installs on my pandas for sanity checking.
[16:52] <ogra_> we dont build armel images and we dont massively care for armel pacvkages either
[16:53] <ogra_> the archive is still existing and wont go away
[16:54] <danboid> ppisati, I can get a package for 11.10 armel with the snd-seq compiled as a module?
[16:54] <ppisati> danboid: get the P kernel
[16:54] <danboid> ppisati, ? Link?
[16:55] <danboid> ppisati, please!
[16:57] <ppisati> danboid: http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/pool/main/l/linux-meta-ti-omap4/linux-image-omap4_<IP_ADDRESS>8.8_armel.deb
[16:57] <danboid> ppisati, Thanks v. much! Will be trying that tonight! :)
[17:04] <danboid> Thanks for your help guys!
[17:21] <prp_> does anyone know how to install minicom on pandaboard. I tried sudo apt-get install minicom but it says E: unable to locate package minicom. I enabled all software sources and restarted but it still doesnt work
[17:24] <GrueMaster> prp_: It should be there.
[17:24] <GrueMaster> ubuntu@panda3:~$ apt-cache search minicom
[17:24] <GrueMaster> cutecom - Graphical serial terminal, like minicom
[17:24] <GrueMaster> minicom - friendly menu driven serial communication program
[17:25] <prp_> thats exactly what i see
[17:25] <GrueMaster> ubuntu@panda4:~$ apt-cache madison minicom
[17:25] <GrueMaster>    minicom |      2.5-2 | http://mirror.gruenet/ubuntu-ports/ precise/universe armhf Packages
[17:25] <GrueMaster>    minicom |      2.5-2 | http://mirror.gruenet/ubuntu-ports/ precise/universe Sources
[17:26] <GrueMaster> Heh, local mirror, but should be identical to ports.u.c
[17:27] <prp_> i opened ubuntu software manager and tried to install 7zip and it gave a button to use universe source. i clicked it, now minicom works as well
[17:32] <GrueMaster> Note to self, don't run minicom in a remote screen session.  Key bindings are the same.
[17:47] <steev_> GrueMaster: i normally use screen /dev/ttyUSB0 115200, it gets confusing when i go a few screen sessions deep
[17:47] <GrueMaster> steev_: I was only testing minicom on panda to verify it ran.
[17:47] <steev_> ahh
[17:48] <GrueMaster> I use screen for all my serial consols.
[17:48] <steev_> i find it easier to use
[17:48] <steev_> my buddy keeps trying to get me to switch to socat
[17:50] <GrueMaster> I'm actually going to look for some kind of serial console app that can multiplex.  I need to have screen running, but I also want some script to be able to interact with netboot installs when needed.
[17:51] <GrueMaster> Not sure if I can just attach to the screen session in python.
[21:49] <xteejx_> Hi guys, anyone here that can answer 1 or 2 quick questions about Ubuntu for arm please?
[21:50] <xteejx_> The wiki states Ubutnu arm is for v7+, but I have an arm11 (v6). Is there no way I can get it on there?
[21:51] <GrueMaster> xteejx_: Sadly, no.  But Debian is very similar and will support your hardware.
[21:51] <xteejx_> GrueMaster, Damn :(
[21:52] <xteejx_> I'll have a google around for debian related stuff then, thanks anyway for the pointer :)
[21:52] <GrueMaster> Good luck.
[21:53] <xteejx_> lol thank you :)
[22:53] <Riddell> on what mailing list can I ask arm issues?
[22:54] <pbuckley> heh
[22:54] <pbuckley> i wonder how many raspberry pi people we will see in the upcoming weeks asking why ubuntu doesnt boot
[22:55] <lilstevie> pbuckley, heaps no doubt :p
[22:56] <pbuckley> btw anyone know of a good eq (per frequency adjustments)?
[22:56] <pbuckley> thats system wide
[22:56] <pbuckley> alsamixer seems to have some built in filters
[22:56] <pbuckley> but couldnt figure out how to change em
[22:58] <GrueMaster> Riddell: What arm issues?  What platform?  There are quite a few choices.
[22:58] <Riddell> GrueMaster: the one where my pandaboard doesn't boot with a precise install
[23:00] <pbuckley> using the right image?
[23:02] <GrueMaster> Riddell: First, I would recommend going through the troubleshooting section at http://pandaboard.org/content/resources/troubleshooting to make sure your system works and your environment is set up correctly.
[23:03] <GrueMaster> If everything goes well there, we can work to figure out why Ubuntu isn't working on your pandaboard.
[23:03] <Riddell> it works fine
[23:03] <Riddell> it does not work with precise
[23:04] <GrueMaster> What exactly doesn't work with Precise?  (note that I frequently test the daily precise images).
[23:05] <Riddell> the same thing as last time we looked at it http://starsky.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/precice-arm-boot.txt
[23:05] <pbuckley> im running two pandaboards with precise
[23:05] <pbuckley> that looks like a bad sd card at first glance
[23:05] <Riddell> works fine with oneiric
[23:06] <pbuckley> well something is wrong with your setup
[23:06] <pbuckley> i assure you
[23:06] <pbuckley> sorry
[23:06] <pbuckley> bad day
[23:06] <pbuckley> ill be back later
[23:06] <GrueMaster> Which image is this?
[23:07] <GrueMaster> I'm not seeing this on today's daily image.
[23:08] <Riddell> armhf omap4 daily build from today for ubuntu-desktop, armhf omap4 daily build for when we last tested it, armel precise image from alpha 1
[23:08] <Riddell> I know you're not.  you weren't when we tested it the other day either.
[23:09] <GrueMaster> Hmm.  It is possible you have a defective board, but I can't verify that.
[23:09] <Riddell> got a copy of the validation image?
[23:09] <GrueMaster> This is on first boot?
[23:10] <Riddell> yes, also on boot after upgrade from oneiric
[23:10] <GrueMaster> Not on me.  It is at http://pandaboard.org/content/resources/troubleshooting
[23:10] <Riddell> that link doesn't work
[23:11] <GrueMaster> Try http://pandaboard.org.  Click on RESOURCES.
[23:11] <GrueMaster> Or is it the gforge.ti link that is broken?
[23:12] <Riddell> yes
[23:16] <GrueMaster> Let's try in #pandaboard.
[23:22] <GrueMaster> Riddell: Well, that would explain the broken link.
[23:22] <Riddell> mm hmm
[23:23] <GrueMaster> So, do you have a more recent copy of the daily builds, or at least Beta 1?
[23:30] <GrueMaster> Also, can you download and try the ubuntu-server daily as well?  I doubt it will change anything, but it would be useful to test.
[23:40]  * Riddell snoozes


 BUt if you don't want to do its, its fine
[14:06] <cjohnston> why
[14:07] <nigelb> The original intent was to show that we did put into summit during times that UDS is not happening ;)
[14:07] <cjohnston> the question wasnt me, the question was the talk
[14:07] <cjohnston> you mean like the work we have done between uds-o and uds-p?
[14:08] <nigelb> yep
[14:10] <cjohnston> on that rt, i think we want to try to get it moved to a deadline of sooner than 10-1
[14:29] <mhall119> nigelb: cjohnston: Ronnie: daker: I'm starting to put together a list of technologies for web developers in Ubuntu, please add whatever you can think of to the list: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WebDevelopers
[14:30] <mhall119> newz2000: ^^
[14:33] <mhall119> I'm thinking of leaving out the community and services sections, as they're really only specific to people making ubuntu-related websites
[14:37] <newz2000> I was working on some CSS3 stuff last night and said to myself, This should really be in version control.
[14:37] <newz2000> You'll never guess what happened next.
[14:37]  * newz2000 now really wishes it was in version control
[14:37] <mhall119> you accidentally deleted it all?
[14:37] <mhall119> lol
[14:37] <newz2000> not all
[14:38] <newz2000> but I deleted something and now it's foobar'd
[14:38] <mhall119> that's always how it goes
[14:38]  * newz2000 would love to be able to do bzr diff to see what changed
[14:39] <mhall119> it's almost worth it ot make a script that use inotify and convert any new directory under ~/projects into a bzr branch, and do bzr commit on every save
[14:53] <daker> mhall119, ok
[14:59] <nigelb> newz2000: use an etherpad!
[14:59] <nigelb> oh, wait
[14:59] <nigelb> css3.
[14:59] <nigelb> Hah. version controll++
[15:02] <nigelb> newz2000: Were you able to fix that wrapping?
[15:06] <cjohnston> mhall119: when do you think you can push a new summit release
[15:11] <mhall119> cjohnston: from trunk?
[15:12] <nigelb> Did we at some point merge into trunk from the stable branch?
[15:12] <mhall119> yes
[15:12] <nigelb> Excellent.
[15:12] <cjohnston> yes
[15:14] <mhall119> yeah, trunk isn't missing anything from 1.x
[15:15] <cjohnston> afaik trunk is stable too
[15:15] <mhall119> yeah, but it has the migration history cleared, so it'll be a non-trivial deployment
[15:16] <cjohnston> so we need to get it done so we have plenty of time to fix any issues that may arrise
[15:16] <mhall119> yeah
[15:16] <mhall119> find me an extra 3 hours
[15:16] <cjohnston> 0000 - 0300 tomorrow morning
[15:17] <mhall119> I'll be sleeping
[15:17] <cjohnston> no you wont.. thats why itll be extra
[15:17] <mhall119> :P
[15:19] <nigelb> mhall119: We can arrange an alarm with your kids if you wish :P
[15:19] <nigelb> That seems to be how you're waking up these days :P
[15:21] <mhall119> nigelb: my kids will both be at a sleepover tonight, so you can set an alarm with them all you want :)
[15:21] <nigelb> heh
[15:21] <nigelb> mhall119: well played
[15:22] <cjohnston> i still know where you live
[16:09] <newz2000> nigelb: still on my todo list
[16:09] <nigelb> newz2000: can I help in anyway?
[16:09] <nigelb> Is the code around that I could give you an MP?
[16:09] <newz2000> let me look
[16:10] <newz2000> nigelb: lp:~newz/+junk/light-wiki/ (I think)
[16:11] <nigelb> newz2000: gah, can't MP to +junk :(
[16:11] <newz2000> nigelb: let me look and see if it's elsewhere
[16:11] <nigelb> okay :)
[16:11] <newz2000> (it should be)
[16:14] <newz2000> nigelb: try this: lp:~newz/canonical-webmonkeys/light-wiki-theme
[16:15] <nigelb> aha
[16:15] <newz2000> I'll set that up so that we can push properly
[16:25] <newz2000> nigelb: ok, I've made it a series now: lp:canonical-webmonkeys/light-wiki-theme
[16:25] <nigelb> oh, excellent.
[16:25] <nigelb> let me get you that MP.


[09:11] <Chipaca> good morning all!
[09:19] <Chipaca> why is my TODO box just growing :(
[09:41] <jam> Chipaca, clearly because you aren't doing anything :)
[09:41] <Chipaca> :'(
[10:06] <jam> Chipaca, thoughts on 'read_relation_data' vs 'get_relation_data' ? I was avoiding having it too close to 'relation_get' but maybe putting it at the front is different enough.
[10:07] <Chipaca> jam: i think get is better because read has me think it's more expensive than just getting something from memory
[10:09] <jam> Chipaca, np. I'll push up that change. Will you have a chance to look at the updates since you looked last?
[10:10] <Chipaca> jam: yep!
[10:19] <Chipaca> jam: what sample charms do we have?
[10:20] <jam> Chipaca, charms using the operator framework?
[10:20] <Chipaca> yep
[10:20] <Chipaca> ones that we point people at when they want to start using it
[10:21] <Chipaca> even better, the ones we ourselves worked on
[10:21] <jam> https://github.com/johnsca/charm-gitlab-k8s/
[10:21] <jam> https://github.com/tvansteenburgh/charm-kine/blob/master/lib/charm.py was a fairly early version of the framework but still mostly sound
[10:22] <jam> https://github.com/relaxdiego/charm-k8s-prometheus/ is using it, but probably isn't what I would point people to
[10:23] <jam> I haven't reviewed https://github.com/gnuoy/ceph-iscsi/ which is also using the operator framework
[10:25] <Chipaca> thank you
[10:25] <jam> dmitrii was working on https://github.com/dshcherb/charm-nats-1 and https://github.com/dshcherb/charm-cockroachdb I believe
[10:25] <Chipaca> i wouldn't call relaxdiego's work something i'd point people at
[10:25] <Chipaca> (quite the opposite in fact)
[10:26] <Chipaca> so agreed on that :)
[10:26] <jam> indeed. I was working on interface-pgsql but was struggling to test it to know that it really was doing what I wanted. Hopefully this eventually gets back around to it.
[10:32] <Chipaca> jam: tests unhappy
[10:33] <Chipaca> jam: (need to de-path some things for 3.5)
[10:41] <jam> yeah, I was worried about that.
[10:54] <jam> Chipaca, pushed a fix that passes on 3.5
[10:55] <Chipaca> jam: 👍
[10:56] <jam> so shall I push the button or would you like to?
[10:57] <Chipaca> jam: sorry, i meant good on fixing it
[10:58] <Chipaca> jam: am now doing a full pass
[10:58] <jam> ah, gotcha
[10:58] <jam> will wait for you
[10:58] <jam> (working on follow up
[10:59] <Chipaca> jam: i'll push the button when i'm done (want to go over the pr prescription to make sure it's current?)
[11:23] <Chipaca> jam: bad news :-(
[11:23] <Chipaca> jam: lots of silly things, mostly in docstrings
[11:23] <Chipaca> jam: good news, if those are the things i'm asking for changes on, we're so almost there
[11:24] <Chipaca> jam: note not all comments are requests-for-changes though, some are just me rambling / musing
[11:26] <Chipaca> oh dang nearly half eleven and i haven't made the boys do any schoolwork
[11:29] <Chipaca> jam: also, not mentioned in the comments there, is that enable/disable should raise a stink if they're called before begin()
[11:29] <jam> Chipaca, should they? it would let you default to disabled events as soon as the charm is instantiated.
[11:30] <Chipaca> jam: ah, if that works, a'ight :)
[11:30] <Chipaca> of course it'd work :)
[11:30] <Chipaca> ok, fair
[11:30] <jam> Chipaca, it isn't that I need it to, just that it feels odd to go out of my way to prevent it, when it isn't really wrong per se
[11:31] <Chipaca> jam: yep, got that
[11:31] <Chipaca> jam: belay my "should raise a stink" comment :-p
[11:34] <jam> Chipaca, so *I* would like to have harness.begin() return the charm instance, though for now I've gone with you have to access it as an attribute. If you look at the various tests, they're ready to interact with 'charm' after begin()
[11:34] <jam> thoughts??
[11:35] <Chipaca> jam: i see no harm in returning it as well as keeping a copy
[11:35] <Chipaca> (as long as it's clearly documented that that's what we do, which shouldn't be hard)
[11:38] <jam> so there isn't a huge difference, it is https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/8tSdcb74s3/ vs https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Cj4k8n94Gw/
[11:40] <jam> anyway, I'll leave that for a future follow up. It did feel like Gustavo had a strong preference that you would access it as an attribute.
[11:41] <Chipaca> jam: ok
[11:42] <Chipaca> it's about what feels right and consistent in the api
[11:42] <Chipaca> having the two-argument builder thing was strange, and there i'd agree for having it as an attribute without a doubt
[11:43] <Chipaca> having it split out as a separate step that returns it feels much better than the two-arg thing
[11:43] <Chipaca> the attribute thing is still alright
[11:43] <Chipaca> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[11:43] <Chipaca> so, yes, let's leave it for a future iteration
[11:45] <jam> so for 'charm_dir'.... It is weird to set charm_dir if you are using CharmBase, but it does make sense to set it if you are using a real charm.
[11:46] <jam> Chipaca, I definitely think that if you have a valid charm_dir, you'd want to use the charm_dir / 'metadata.yaml'
[11:46] <jam> Chipaca, one thing I really liked about Harness, was that it was in-memory only, and this change breaks that.
[11:46] <Chipaca> :) well, _can_ break it
[11:47] <Chipaca> it can still be all in memory, and that's nice
[11:47] <jam> (if you look at the test suite, I pulled in importlib, pathlib, shutil, sys, and tempfile in order to test the 'metadata.yaml' handling.)
[11:47] <Chipaca> and it's nice that it falls back to disk, and not touching it if you know what you're doing
[11:48] <Chipaca> so we can still write tests that are all in memory and super fast because of it, for any and all things we write, while supporting simplicity and DRY for actual charm writers
[11:50] <jam> Chipaca, it is also a place where we assume the disk layout of charms (that your Charm class is exactly in a subdirectory of the top charm dir)
[11:50] <Chipaca> jam: yeah, i'd like to change that at some point, but can be a followup
[11:51] <jam> it is the advised layout, and you can override it. so maybe that's fine. I wonder about taking the charm_dir itself
[11:51] <Chipaca> it's fine for now and will mostly dtrt
[11:51] <Chipaca> jam: it _could_ be done the other way around: find the yaml, set charm dir to the dir that holds it
[11:51] <Chipaca> that is, walk up from the .py looking for it
[11:52] <Chipaca> but as i say, later
[11:52] <Chipaca> jam: i do expect charm_dir to be only useful to people actually having a metadata.yaml so there is that (and, we can add it as a keyword argument to override like with yaml)
[11:54] <jam> Chipaca, so I went ahead and set charm_dir if we read metadata.yaml, I'll push that up.
[12:00] <facubatista> Muy buenos días a todos!
[12:05] <jam> facubatista, good morning and welcome back.
[12:05] <facubatista> hola jam :)
[12:05] <jam> Chipaca, I think I've addressed all your review comments. Thanks for the thorough review. I appreciate it.
[12:12] <Chipaca> Facu: buen día caeza!
[12:13] <Chipaca> facundo__: ETOOMANYFACUNDOS
[12:13] <Chipaca> on the _other_ hand, i do still have an open positon
[12:13] <Chipaca> hmmmmmm
[12:13] <facundo__> Chipaca, internet's not best day
[12:14] <Chipaca> facundo__: buen día caeza :)
[12:14] <facundo__> Chipaca, hola :)
[12:19] <Chipaca> jam: care to update the description and land it?
[12:19] <Chipaca> facubatista: last chance to review / ask for changes in the testing pr :-D
[12:20] <facubatista> Chipaca, land it, too big too old to keep pointing to details, we can adjust details in the future
[12:20] <Chipaca> facubatista: <3
[12:21] <jam> Chipaca, +1
[12:27] <jam> Chipaca, landed.
[12:27] <jam> thanks for your help
[12:30] <facubatista> jam, niemeyer, question about "config-changed" event: do juju guarantee that all events are delivered in order and nothing is skipped? like, is there 0.000% chance that events won't arrive out of order, or any could be missed?
[12:31] <facubatista> is really a charm able to react to config "deltas" (as it's being talked in #189) or it always should manage current state?
[12:31] <jam> facubatista, juju intentionally doesn't include data in events, so if the config changes 2x you might get a single 'config-changed' event. But you are guaranteed to get an event as long as the config is different than the last time we told you about it.
[12:32] <jam> it is generally an 'at-least-once' model with coalescing.
[12:32] <facubatista> jam, that is a promise we can rely on?
[12:32] <jam> put another way, once your config-changed exits, we record the version of config that we told you about. we then watch to see if there is a new version, and will eventually run config-changed until those numbers match.
[12:33] <jam> we *might* run relation-changed, or some other hook in the mean time.
[12:34] <facubatista> jam, I'm trying to understand if this is how "it works in general" or "a solid block we can rely on to build other behaviours"
[12:35] <jam> facubatista, so for all data that we want to tell the charm about. the associated hook returning successfully is what we use to update the version that the charm has seen.
[12:36] <jam> so we store "we have shown Charm config version 5", and we decide to fire config-changed if config version != 5. So we may not show you version 6, if you're already at version 8 by the time the charm can run config-changed.
[12:36] <jam> but we don't update the version the charm has seen until config-changed returns with success.
[12:37] <facubatista> jam, where this version number comes from?
[12:39] <facubatista> jam, also, how the charm actually "sees" the config?
[12:39] <facubatista> (sorry if these questions are too basic, I'm still diving in)
[12:40] <jam> facubatista, every update to the config (from a user doing 'juju config foo=bar') causes the Version to increment by one.
[12:40] <jam> the actual version counter is not exposed to the user or charm anywhere.
[12:41] <jam> the charm 'sees' the config by executing the 'config-get' hook tool that is in $PATH during a hook execution.
[12:41] <facubatista> ah, the charm doesn't see the version! that is important
[12:41] <jam> (_ModelBackend is where we interface with Juju's hook tools)
[12:42] <facubatista> jam, config-get is synchronous? the charm process is blocked and keeps running until it gets back the whole config?
[12:43] <jam> facubatista, so the other aspect is that Juju fixes the content that config-get will return during the lifetime of any hook.
[12:43] <jam> (once it returns a value, that value is cached for the rest of the hook execution.)
[12:44] <jam> config-get is synchronous, but that matters less because we want to make sure that a charm calling it at the beginning of a hook, or at the end of a hook sees the same content.
[12:44] <jam> and *that* is the version that we record the charm as seeing.
[12:46] <facubatista> jam, we record that the charm saw version N because it answered ok to config-changed, or because we got a config-get from it?
[12:48] <jam> facubatista, because it answered ok to config-changed.
[12:51] <facubatista> jam, thanks for all the info, I have a better picture of this now
[12:51] <jam> facubatista, np
[12:54] <facubatista> jam, do you have an example at hand of how a complex "config" would look? the response to a config-get, I mean...
[12:55] <jam> facubatista, config-get returns a YAML of key-value as defined by the charm's config.yaml schema. which can have quite a bit in it.
[12:55] <jam> eg: https://api.jujucharms.com/charmstore/v5/postgresql-203/archive/config.yaml
[12:56] <jam> has about 60 config options.
[12:56] <jam> now, they can't be nested, so it is all top-level keys, with values that might be a string/int/float
[12:57] <facubatista> jam, so it could be super big, but not complex as it's not nested and with restricted data types
[12:59] <facubatista> thanks
[12:59] <jam> yep
[16:10]  * facubatista -> lunch
[17:00]  * facubatista is back
[17:05] <Chipaca> facubatista: welcome back :-p
[17:05] <facubatista> :)
[17:26] <facubatista> niemeyer, Chipaca, I went back and forward regarding the best way to structure this, I like it how it's now, but not 100% happy: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zKwzo26bNVFgohaRB_kdUCsFPY3OcjfcpQklGpkOHpc/
[17:27] <facubatista> in any case, everything I thought of is there, so we can tune it
[18:02] <Chipaca> soft EOD from me. TTFN!
[18:36] <niemeyer> facubatista: Want to have a quick call on it?
[19:18] <facubatista> niemeyer, still around?
[19:18]  * facubatista was doing a little gym
[19:21] <niemeyer> facubatista: Yeah, just responding to something else, back soon
[19:21] <facubatista> niemeyer, I'm here, ping me and we can jump to https://meet.google.com/veq-yfqm-kdk
[19:35] <niemeyer> Alright, done withat
[19:35] <niemeyer> with that
[19:35] <niemeyer> Joining..
[19:36] <niemeyer> facubatista: ping
[19:36] <facubatista> niemeyer, going
[20:11]  * facubatista brb
[20:28]  * facubatista is back
[21:43] <facubatista> Chipaca, I'm heavily changing the Debugger spec, I will let you know when it's done
[21:43] <facubatista> but will need to be tomorrow
[21:43]  * facubatista eods


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[12:15] <theresa> do you think edubuntu is more suited for kids from 10-14 or is there something useful for kids above this age?
[12:16] <pygi> In general Edubuntu currently fits more to primary school, and partly high school (according to your system)
[12:16] <pygi> but there are a lot of apps you can install for older folks
[12:16] <LaserJock> Edubuntu has access to the same software repositories as Ubuntu
[12:17] <LaserJock> so you can install lots of software
[12:17] <pygi> and we're working hard to add support for high schools and uni's by default in the future
[12:17] <pygi> theresa: indeed
[12:17] <theresa> excellent cool!
[12:17] <theresa> is there a list of apps?
[12:17] <pygi> theresa: just use synaptic to see the available software
[12:18] <theresa> ah ook
[12:21] <theresa> this case study might be useful for the edubuntu development team as well? if i get a proper reaction from the kids on what they want and what they need, maybe it could be worked on for the future?
[12:26] <LaserJock> yes
[12:27] <LaserJock> we are very much interested in case studies
[12:27] <LaserJock> and people experiences
[12:29] <theresa> hmm i think it'd be much more interesting to do this with older kids though, because they maybe have more interest in computers already.... (i'm talking about kids from 12-17/28)
[12:29] <theresa> *18 not 28
[12:29] <theresa> personally i'm not soo good with the wee ones ;) hehe
[12:31] <theresa> apart from that most applications seem to be in english, and our kids start learning english from 10 onwards, so it might be a bit difficult...
[12:31] <LaserJock> yeah, I'm interested in high school and university students
[12:31] <theresa> excellent :)
[12:47] <theresa> hmm I have another question...how do you proceed, if someone suddenly asks what the point is of using edubuntu or ubuntu anyway if the whole world uses windows....(the free and open source argument) won't work for students or people who are not really interested in computers anyway because they wouldn't understand the whole philosophy without getting into too much detail...
[12:49] <pygi> theresa: make folks in Austria to translate Edubuntu apps ;)
[12:50] <theresa> pygi: good idea, i'll best start myself with it ;)
[12:54] <pygi> theresa: ^_^
[12:54] <pygi> theresa: if you need any help with assembling the team (if there is no LoCo already. let me know)
[12:55] <theresa> what's a LoCo
[12:55] <LaserJock> theresa: this is were we translate: https://launchpad.net/rosetta
[12:55] <pygi> theresa: Localization team
[12:55] <theresa> oh yeah I've heard about Rosetta
[12:56] <LaserJock> theresa: sometimes it's good to find things that the students can do with Ubuntu that they can't with Windows
[12:56] <theresa> hmm true, but without being unrespectful, is there anything that can't be done with windows?
[12:57] <LaserJock> yes
[12:57] <theresa> pygi: what does the Localization team do?
[12:57] <LaserJock> well not so much "can't" but it's much easier and more available
[12:58] <pygi> theresa: translates, promotes ubuntu in it's country, organizes release partly, translation maratons, helps users get started with ubuntu, etc, etc
[12:58] <LaserJock> theresa: those are teams made up of people from the same country/region
[12:59] <theresa> excellent, sounds good to me! where and how can i get in touch with the austrian based team?
[01:00] <pygi> theresa: just tried to found your team. You country initials are "at", right?
[01:00] <theresa> yep
[01:00] <pygi> there currently doesn't seem to exist the ubuntu austrian loco team
[01:00] <theresa> :(
[01:00] <LaserJock> theresa: #ubuntu-at
[01:00] <pygi> or am I mistaken? LaserJock, correct me?
[01:01] <LaserJock> theresa: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AustriaTeam
[01:01] <pygi> that the teams must stand up to be officialy recognized
[01:02] <theresa> yeah the team seems very smallish...
[01:03] <pygi> for now perhaps ^_^ It can get bigger ...
[01:04] <theresa> oh i'm afraid I got to go now.....i'm tired and ready for bed ;)
[01:06] <theresa> thanks for listening and for your advice, i'm sure I'll get back to you sooner rather than later ;)
[05:55] <MacAnthony> quick question: I just installed edgy - what are the chances that very few packages need updates?
[05:56] <MacAnthony> I'm trying to figure out if I have and am using synaptic right
[05:56] <MacAnthony> it only said I had 3 updates
[05:56] <jsgotangco> that's right
[05:56] <jsgotangco> there aren't that much updates yet
[05:57] <MacAnthony> ok, I just want to be sure, thanks :)
[05:57] <crimsun> unless you happened to have all the packages installed that received updates.
[05:57] <crimsun> even then it's fewer than ten
[05:57] <MacAnthony> just the core install from the cd, crimsun
[07:48] <highvoltage> hey Nuffing
[07:48] <Nuffing> hey highvoltage  :)
[07:49] <Nuffing> I have claimed this HP tablet and d/led all the stuff I needed to get myself connected to the world again :)
[07:49] <Nuffing> are you in SF?
[07:50] <highvoltage> nope, at home.
[07:50] <highvoltage> I finally have fast reliable internet at home again.
[07:50] <highvoltage> are you?
[07:54] <Nuffing> I can't understand why anyone still uses IE, it sucks SO badly compared to firefox
[07:54] <Nuffing> are me what?
[07:54] <Nuffing> in SF?
[07:54] <Nuffing> nah, home
[07:54] <Nuffing> my turn to babysit ;)
[07:55] <highvoltage> ah :)
[08:13] <Nuffing> anyway off to the gym, back later *wave*
[11:11] <cbx33> hey ogra good morning
[11:27] <edubuntugirl> good morning cbx33
[11:28] <cbx33> hello edubuntugirl
[11:28] <edubuntugirl> salut, cbx33!
[11:28] <pygi> hey ho cbx33
[11:28] <cbx33> hi pygi
[11:30] <cbx33> howaz it going
[11:32] <pygi> cbx33: busy :)
[11:33] <jsgotangco> hey hey
[11:34] <pygi> hello js
[11:35] <edubuntugirl> hey!!
[11:46] <fdr> Hello out there -- is anyone up?
[11:47] <jsgotangco> hi
[11:47] <fdr> Hello; I was wondering if I could pose an open question for some mulling
[11:48] <fdr> sort of a thing to speak about in generalities
[11:49] <Burgundavia> fdr: shoot
[11:50] <fdr> alright. Some quick background about at what level you can talk to me: I'm primarily a computer-science sort and do my sysadmining on a hand-to-mouth basis, but I would like to do a little bit of surveying to see if I can help my old high school
[11:50] <fdr> basically, I'd like to avoid using remote X servers on thin clients
[11:50] <Burgundavia> why so?
[11:50] <fdr> and instead use LTSP to simply boot the machine into a stateless, minimal X environment that will run Nomachine's NX instead
[11:51] <fdr> Or even give the user an option, as long as NX runs on the local X server
[11:51] <fdr> I have found NX to be blazing fast and it'd be nice to give users the option to use it outside the local lab that will be using network bootloading to access the machine
[11:52] <fdr> plus I don't think their network infrastructure is the best
[11:53] <fdr> basically, I've found NX to be even faster than my experience with Sun Rays, which use something more similar to LTSP
[11:55] <fdr> Anyway, that's all.
[11:56] <fdr> You can try to convince me that perhaps that step is unnecessary, and simply running the nx daemon and using the standard remote X is speedy, even on 10 megabit lines
[11:56] <Burgundavia> sorry, you are asking the wrong person about remote X stuff
[11:56] <Burgundavia> ogra is the person you need to talk to, but it is 3am where we are right now
[11:57] <fdr> ah. Which is where I am
[11:57] <fdr> just a bit of insomnia
[11:57] <fdr> okay. I'll come back at a more godly hour.
[11:57] <fdr> but thank you for listening to my spiel.
[11:58] <Burgundavia> NX has issues, that is what I understand
[11:58] <fdr> really? I've used it for some time now without problems -- please tell me more
[11:58] <Burgundavia> they relate to licensing and code duplication, from what I understand
[11:58] <Burgundavia> I could be incorrect in that
[11:59] <fdr> code duplication? What is meant by that? I do know it has nasty interactions with Cygwin that can be gotten around
[11:59] <Burgundavia> code duplication with X
[11:59] <crimsun> posh, you love the included X Window System code in NX's source!
[12:00] <fdr> oh, you mean being its own little X server?
[12:00] <fdr> or something like that?
[12:01] <fdr> it also has some GPL components nowadays
[12:01] <fdr> I know a server can be had completely free of entanglement
[12:02] <crimsun> screams maintenance nightmare, among other things
[12:02] <highvoltage> fdr: hi there
[12:02] <fdr> hello
[12:02] <highvoltage> fdr: ogra did say he wants to investigate the open source nx stuff for edubuntu
[12:02] <fdr> hey, if it works it works, unless you can tell me about a remoting method more efficient than NX for GNU/Linux
[12:02] <highvoltage> if it makes it into edubuntu it will probably only be for the release made late next year
[12:02] <Burgundavia> crimsun: I don't need to tell you the pain of upgrading our custom hacks from 6.8.2 to something newer
[12:03] <fdr> I think that's sensible, but I'm not asking for a nice lickable integration
[12:03] <highvoltage> custom hacks love biting you in the ass
[12:03] <fdr> I can install NX okay, my actual question can be reduced to this abstract query:
[12:03] <fdr> how can I make LTSP run a program locally using the local X server
[12:04] <fdr> I've heard it be done, but I want to ask how kludgey or whatnot it is
[12:04] <highvoltage> in most basic terms, you need to install the application into your ltsp chroot
[12:04] <highvoltage> then you basically ssh to your local machine and run the program
[12:05] <highvoltage> it's not implemented in LTSP yet, but it seems likely that it will be implemented in the next version of Edubuntu
[12:05] <highvoltage> it depends on the ubuntu authentication server being implemented.
[12:05] <fdr> to what? do use the local machine to run particular stuff?
[12:05] <highvoltage> yes.
[12:06] <fdr> hmm. well, my cursory survey seemed to suggest that was done by some, but it was just cursory. It's good to know that it's not quite there yet, but will be Real Soon Now
[12:06] <highvoltage> so if you want to run firefox using local cpu + ram, you'd install it in chroot,
[12:06] <fdr> yeah, that's okay
[12:06] <highvoltage> then from the thin client, you ssh into the thin client (nfs mounted chroot running locally) and display it locally
[12:07] <highvoltage> there were ways to do it with LTSP 4.2
[12:07] <highvoltage> but it's very experimental and not user friendly.
[12:07] <fdr> okay.
[12:07] <fdr> hmm.
[12:07] <fdr> so basically xtunnel locally. that is sort of evil
[12:07] <highvoltage> fdr: if you are looking for a DIY solution, look for local apps on http://wiki.ltsp.org
[12:08] <highvoltage> it's evil, but there's not really any other way.
[12:08] <fdr> it's good enough, probably
[12:08] <highvoltage> it's good enought for anything that's not 3D
[12:08] <fdr> that's perfectly fine
[12:08] <highvoltage> I don't think you can run quake 3 over an ssh tunnel
[12:08] <highvoltage> even if it's local :)
[12:08] <highvoltage> but for things like firefox with flash... it will run nicely
[12:09] <fdr> hah. well, maybe when we don't have to use direct frame buffers
[12:09] <fdr> it's basically just to reduce load on the network, though. When I was in college I suffered along using tunneled X and thin clients with X (which were better, as they were on the LAN, but still quite lagiful)
[12:10] <fdr> but in a relatively impoverished public school with ad-hoc everything, I feel like it'd be useful to investigate the NX option
[12:11] <fdr> but thank you for your help
[12:11] <fdr> I think that's probably enough for me to go ahead and do it
[12:18] <fdr> two other resources that make be good for people looking for such solutions:
[12:18] <fdr> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DisklessUbuntuHowto
[12:18] <fdr> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPFatClients
[12:20] <highvoltage> :)
[12:21] <fdr> oh? are you using the loopback X tunnel?
[12:22] <highvoltage> nope
[12:22] <fdr> oh, so you're doing the mount the remote system?
[12:22] <highvoltage> yep
[12:22] <fdr> how has that been working for you?
[12:22] <highvoltage> the entire system is install in the chroot
[12:22] <highvoltage> and then *everything* runs locally.
[12:22] <highvoltage> it works well.
[12:22] <highvoltage> the biggest setup we use is a lab with 27 computers that running as fat diskless machines
[12:22] <highvoltage> and it works well.
[12:23] <fdr> that's good news
[12:23] <highvoltage> i thought that the server would run out of disk bandwidth, but the disks aren't a problem at all.
[12:23] <fdr> that's good
[12:23] <highvoltage> I do run out of network bandwidth on the server though.
[12:23] <highvoltage> one gbit card is *just* not enough
[12:23] <fdr> oh? when serving up apps?
[12:23] <fdr> and home dirs?
[12:24] <fdr> I guess caching web browsing could also be a big one
[12:24] <highvoltage> well, if you're running diskless fat, then everything mounted from the server, filesystem, home dirs, everything.
[12:24] <fdr> I see a lot of random seeks and writes in your future. yes.
[12:24] <fdr> okay. that makes sense.
[12:24] <highvoltage> web browsing isn't that slow
[12:24] <highvoltage> it gets slow when 27 kids open openoffice at the same time
[12:25] <fdr> although stuff like that will put some heavy load on the disks if the lab is at high occupancy
[12:25] <highvoltage> not *too* slow, but slower than doing 10
[12:25] <fdr> ouch
[12:25] <fdr> hmm.
[12:25] <highvoltage> and you can see on the server the network traffic is maxed out
[12:25] <highvoltage> everything else is fine.
[12:25] <fdr> oh, alright.
[12:25] <fdr> so it's mostly app loads then
[12:26] <fdr> I suppose one could do some fancy prefetching to get rid of that, but probably not worth it
[12:27] <fdr> yeah. I think I like the fat, diskless client is in the right league with what I want. No use having perfectly good cycles go to waste, although on even more pathetic machines I'd like to make remoting into the big machine a viable option
[12:27] <highvoltage> you could have readahead that ubuntu uses to boot to do that, but it probably is just more worth while adding another network card.
[12:28] <highvoltage> on weaker machines thin clients is the way to go
[12:28] <fdr> yeah. there's sort of an eclectic collection at hand here
[12:28] <highvoltage> and on the machines inbetween, thin clients but that run some local apps
[12:28] <fdr> okay. so I guess a mixed shop may be good.
[12:28] <fdr> one final wrinkle:
[12:29] <fdr> LTSP for the truly pathetic hardware, fat clients running most stuff locally for good-ish hardware...what about making the fat client setup remotable, 1:1?
[12:30] <fdr> sounds like you'd have to network boot a client (so it's in the chroot) and then have it be the NX server
[12:30] <fdr> alternatively, this may be a good use of some sort of virtualization
[12:30] <highvoltage> fat clients run everything locally
[12:30] <highvoltage> you can't run some locally and some not
[12:31] <highvoltage> you're right, it has some *great* use cases for virtualisation
[12:31] <fdr> that I understand, but what if I wanted the ability to NX into some machine that gives me the exact same setup (more or less) as the fat client
[12:31] <highvoltage> it's something that my company is invesgtigating.
[12:31] <highvoltage> ah yes, you could do that.
[12:32] <highvoltage> although it's not very user friently
[12:32] <highvoltage> so the user would have to use nx only for certain applications?
[12:32] <fdr> or if they felt like it
[12:32] <fdr> I think the main purpose is to make it universal feeling
[12:32] <fdr> eg, not have to maintain the chroot to be == to the terminal server-ish thing
[12:33] <fdr> but instead have a machine--virtual or otherwise--booted from the chroot with the one exception of having NX/VNC server, etc
[12:33] <fdr> alternatively, it may not so bad to run NX server on every fat client. that's probably good enough
[12:34] <fdr> so there's no edge case, just pick any fat client (preferably a fast one) to NX into
[12:34] <fdr> but what are your thoughts on that?
[12:34] <fdr> there are wrinkles, but are they critical?
[12:35] <highvoltage> not really
[12:36] <highvoltage> there's one big dependency though, and that's authentication.
[12:36] <highvoltage> and from the edubuntu side, that will be implemented by an ubuntu team
[12:36] <fdr> in what sense?
[12:36] <highvoltage> and we're reliant on them to finish that before it goes into edubuntu
[12:36] <highvoltage> in the sense that it causes a time delay for implementation in edubuntu
[12:37] <fdr> well, I don't think I have a clear idea about what the purpose of "authentication" in this specific case
[12:37] <fdr> eg, what is being authenticated, et al
[12:37] <highvoltage> yes we do.
[12:37] <highvoltage> just a sec...
[12:37] <fdr> yeah, web page reading time...
[12:38] <highvoltage> fdr: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/ltsp-fat-clients
[12:38] <highvoltage> fdr: click on the dependencies in that flowchart and it will link to explanations
[12:39] <fdr> so, in this case, you are trying to prevent any old machine from being able to remote boot?
[12:39] <fdr> and controlling various services
[12:40] <fdr> okay. I think I can say that this battle can be fought another day, in my use case
[12:42] <fdr> it would be nice to set aside one machine/virtualization to be the NX-serverized copy of the fat client
[12:42] <fdr> as opposed to having it deployed/hot to all diskless fat clients
[12:43] <highvoltage> just be careful not to overcomplicate your setup. :)
[12:43] <highvoltage> someone will have to be able to take it over when you leave one day, remember that.
[12:44] <fdr> yeah.  I'm getting sloppy.
[12:49] <fdr> that having been said, if your fat clients are all enabled with NX and thus openssh listening students can shell to various computers, for good for for ill
[12:50] <fdr> I seem to recall making good use of idle fat clients for testing out various heuristics
[12:50] <fdr> in at least one course
[12:51] <fdr> let's assume neither: "for awesome"
[12:53] <fdr> again, thank you. I should try to get some real work done
[12:53] <highvoltage> i'm off to the gym, bbl
[12:53] <highvoltage> fdr: talk to you again
[12:54] <fdr> alright. Thanks so much for your pearls of wisdom.
[12:54] <fdr> 4AM for the win.
[03:25] <sorush20> hi any parental control programs for linux around ?
[03:26] <pygi> sorush20, what specific features are you looking for?
[03:29] <sorush20> just blocking of keywords contained in a site and sites itself
[03:29] <sorush20> my router does offer somthing like this but it not working well..
[03:29] <pygi> sorush20, you can use willow-ng for that + epiphany
[03:32] <sorush20> what about something at the router level?
[03:33] <pygi> not sure about that part, sorry
[03:34] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:35] <pygi> hey bddebian :)
[03:36] <highvoltage> sorush20: privoxy could do that at router level
[03:37] <jsgotangco> peh
[03:39] <highvoltage> meh
[03:40] <jsgotangco> its strange
[03:40] <jsgotangco> i can't connect to uds-mv on sip
[03:40] <jsgotangco> on the pages shown in the wiki
[03:40] <jsgotangco> but i tried using gizmo to connect, i get the echo test
[03:40] <jsgotangco> wahahaha
[03:45] <stgraber> strange, twinckle didn't work ?
[03:45] <jsgotangco> nope
[03:46] <stgraber> for me it works fine, except that my microphone volume is too low (even with mic boost ...)
[03:47] <jsgotangco> pretty strange for me, well there isnt anything happening over there on a sunday for sure so i can still check what's wrong
[03:48] <stgraber> all I had to do is to start, enter the username / pass they gave me and I had the "registration succeeded" message
[03:48] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:48] <jsgotangco> weird
[04:03] <highvoltage> pygi: nice one on the burning team!
[04:03] <pygi> highvoltage, thanks ^_^
[04:04] <pygi> highvoltage, ubuntu has a lot of problems in this field, and since I'm familiar with it,I figured why not help  :)
[04:05] <highvoltage> pygi: I think it's great that you do. I'll be keeping an eye on the project, I think it's much needed.
[04:06] <pygi> already did some bug fixing, preparing deb-diffs for feisty, trying to understand who the hell did the package of brasero in debian, etc, etc
[04:38] <pygi> hey js, cb
[04:38] <cbx33> hey py
[04:39] <cbx33> you know if we shortened everyones nick
[04:39] <cbx33> we'd still know who they were ;)
[04:39] <pygi> :P
[04:43] <cbx33> see jsgotangco colin thinks my connection is solid ;)
[04:43] <pygi> :P
[04:44] <highvoltage> cbx33: are still going to MTV? I remember you said something about maybe not being able to go.
[04:45] <jsgotangco> hehe
[04:50] <lguerra> hi all
[04:58] <UltraGuy8> hello everyone
[04:59] <pygi> he
[04:59] <pygi> hey
[04:59] <UltraGuy8> I am a complete beginner to Linux and want to experiment with it on my laptop, is Edubuntu a good distribution for a beginner?
[05:00] <pygi> do you think you'll need some Edu applications?
[05:00] <pygi> you could install it as workstation
[05:00] <stgraber> Edubuntu is Ubuntu but with educational software and is more designed for schools, maybe should you try Ubuntu
[05:01] <cbx33> highvoltage, no...I'm not able to go
[05:02] <pygi> cb, dont mention it
[05:02] <UltraGuy8> well essentially I will be using my laptop fro school
[05:03] <UltraGuy8> for
[05:03] <UltraGuy8> do I lose anything by installing edubuntu rather than ubuntu?
[05:07] <stgraber> I don't think, you will just have more extra packages added
[05:08] <FunnyLookinHat> UltraGuy8, I am not sure that edubuntu is what you will need as a student necessarily...  It's main advantages tend to be seen in elementary and middle school learning areas with it's extra packages
[05:08] <stgraber> I got an Ubuntu on my laptop and an Edubuntu on my workstation (for testing / debuging) and except the desktop theme and the educational software, I don't see any difference
[05:08] <FunnyLookinHat> Don't get me wrong, it's a great distribution... I'm just not so sure I can see you using tux-paint ever for school work  : )
[05:08] <stgraber> or gcompris :)
[05:09] <FunnyLookinHat> agreed.  ;
[05:09] <FunnyLookinHat> ; )
[05:09] <stgraber> yes, maybe the best idea is to install a classical Ubuntu and then add the software you want (for example kalzium, kig, kmplot that can be useful)
[05:10] <stgraber> both Ubuntu and Edubuntu use the same packages list, then you will find all the edubuntu's software in your Ubuntu's synaptic
[05:11] <stgraber> FunnyLookinHat: That would be a great thing to be able to choose the school level at the begining of the install
[05:11] <FunnyLookinHat> stgraber, It really would.  And to choose whether you want it to be more of a teacher's classroom management computer, or a student's lab-type computer.
[05:11] <FunnyLookinHat> Are you involved in edubuntu development?
[05:12] <cbx33> Well, I think this release the focus will be al ittle more geared to generecism
[05:12] <cbx33> well I hope so at least
[05:12] <pygi> cbx33, you are right
[05:12] <pygi> we do have some plans for making Edu closer to high school and uni use cases
[05:12] <cbx33> The wallpaper this release increases this sense of genercism
[05:13] <stgraber> indeed :)
[05:13] <cbx33> and I hope it will be reflected in the our choice of apps and such
[05:13] <FunnyLookinHat> oh ok...  How easy is it to take the thin-client software and implement it with a fresh install of edubuntu between, say 5 computers and a main server?  That could be another area to focus on adding usability in an installation method
[05:13] <highvoltage> geez. generecism... genercism... these are weird words to me.
[05:13] <cbx33> FunnyLookinHat, EASY
[05:14] <pygi> highvoltage, hehe
[05:14] <cbx33> sorry highvoltage
[05:14] <FunnyLookinHat> cbx33, O RLY?   sweetness.  To be honest I've only messed around with edubuntu slightly, I've had to order another KVM switch to get my workstations setup well enough to start really tinkering.
[05:14] <cbx33> FunnyLookinHat, LTSP setup is really really simple
[05:14] <cbx33> esp if it's all on one network, and the LTSP server is your dhcp server
[05:15] <highvoltage> cbx33: :)
[05:15] <cbx33> at work I have a windows DHCP server which serves the whole school and it was still a piece of cake to setup
[05:15] <FunnyLookinHat> cbx33, what if you use a router such as a linksys as your dhcp server?  I'd have to change that then?
[05:15] <FunnyLookinHat> oh sweet
[05:15] <cbx33> FunnyLookinHat, yes you would
[05:15] <cbx33> unless
[05:15] <cbx33> you have two networks....
[05:16] <cbx33> have the ltsp server with two network cards
[05:16] <FunnyLookinHat> right.  well that makes sense with what I've read about ltsp
[05:16] <cbx33> ;~)
[05:17] <FunnyLookinHat> I'm one of the edubuntu contacts for my community team so I'm really trying to understand the more fine points of the release and test them thoroughly   : )
[05:17] <FunnyLookinHat> However, I have to run to work for now...
[05:17] <FunnyLookinHat> thanks for the info cbx33
[05:17] <cbx33> ok
[05:17] <cbx33> np FunnyLookinHat
[05:17] <cbx33> how are you highvoltage been a long time since we said hey ;)
[05:18] <stgraber> cbx33: Are you going to use the VOIP for the UDS ?
[05:22] <highvoltage> cbx33: I've been working really hard the last 8 days or so, I'm actually slightly frustrated right now
[05:22] <highvoltage> have *lots* that I have to finish before the end of the work, and the weather is getting real nice and everyone else is starting to get into a party mood
[05:22] <cbx33> stgraber, indeed I am
[05:22] <cbx33> awwww
[05:22] <highvoltage> but I've been productive and I'm happy the way things are going.
[05:23] <cbx33> though the past 2 weeks I've been taking it easy
[05:23] <pygi> highvoltage, nice weather? :P it started to snow yesterday :P
[05:23] <cbx33> but I'll be busy shortly...
[05:23] <highvoltage> pygi: heh, we'll we had that here a few months ago when everyone was still miserable :)
[05:23] <cbx33> new ubuntu sounds - cambio - SCP - artwork - MOTU
[05:24] <cbx33> and that's just the stuff I've planned
[05:24] <cbx33> ;)#
[05:24] <highvoltage> cbx33: I'm working on a lot of things I want to get into edubuntu eventuall, like this: http://photos.jonathancarter.co.za/screenshots/dvd (artwork not final, btw)
[05:24] <cbx33> hmm...seems my keyboard wants me to have a goaty
[05:24] <highvoltage> cbx33: so that you can install ubiquity on the live cd without having to log into gnome, or use the live cd as a rescue cd
[05:24] <cbx33> nice
[05:25] <cbx33> well I'm hoping to get an alpha version of cambio by the end of the week
[05:25] <cbx33> drag and drop file conversion applet ;)
[05:25] <highvoltage> also a gui that lets you choose services you want to start on the livecd, so that you can choose wheter or not you want to start ltsp and schooltool and apache, etc
[05:25] <cbx33> yes...i beleive ltsp on the live cd is happening for feisty
[05:26] <cbx33> or should I say....I hope it is
[05:26] <cbx33> kinda like a preload config util
[05:27] <highvoltage> yes, but I think users should be able to easily choose whether they want ltsp to run or not
[05:27] <cbx33> it's like a nod
[05:27] <cbx33> but more ascertive ;)
[05:30] <cbx33> who has ekiga here now?
[05:34] <stgraber> cbx33: I have it, but I use twinkle now (ekiga is a bit buggy ...)
[05:34] <highvoltage> I thought it's like a nod, but it forks and spreads
[05:34] <highvoltage> and infects everything
[05:35] <cbx33> heheh
[05:35] <cbx33> twinkle hmmm
[05:35] <stgraber> yes, that's the currently recommended software for UDS
[05:35] <cbx33> :( awww it's kde based
[05:36] <stgraber> yes :(
[05:36] <stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView/Participate
[05:36] <cbx33> is there any schedule yet for monday>
[05:37] <stgraber> not that I know, btw I didn't even see the one of today :)
[05:37] <stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView <-- that will be here in the schedule part
[05:59] <pygi> bddebian, ping?
[06:30] <theresa> hello world!
[06:51] <sbalneav> Morning all
[06:51] <sbalneav> Hey RichEd
[06:51] <RichEd> hello sbalneav :)
[06:52] <stgraber> hi RichEd
[06:52] <sbalneav> Dudes, why aren't you in the front row.
[06:52] <sbalneav> It's where all the cool people are!
[06:52] <ogra> we're shy
[06:52] <sbalneav> Phhht
[06:52] <RichEd> fabio is too scary up close
[06:52] <ogra> :)
[06:53] <sbalneav> Fabio is fabuloso!
[07:10] <sbalneav> I'm in easy-codec-installation
[07:10] <sbalneav> Making sure codecs work with LTSP
[07:34] <pygi> sbalneav, we wont have burning over LTSP BOF, right?
[07:34] <sbalneav> Did you submit a spec for it?
[07:34] <sbalneav> If not, I'll submit one today, and see if I can beg MDZ to get some time for it
[07:34] <pygi> I didnt
[07:35] <pygi> since we really didnt got time to talk about it ...
[07:36] <sbalneav> ok, let me see what I can do...
[07:37] <pygi> thanks
[07:42] <sbalneav> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/ltsp-cd-burning
[07:43] <sbalneav> Fill in some bits in the wiki page.
[07:43] <sbalneav> Click on the "read more" link, and do some editing.
[07:43] <ogra_> sbalneav, hey, thanks for the wiki update on e-d-s
[07:43] <sbalneav> ogra_: I added the cd burning spec.
[07:43] <ogra_> great
[07:44] <ogra_> you also added the edubuntu-directory-server wiki :))
[07:44] <pygi> sbalneav, I'll add some bits, and get to you then :)
[07:44] <sbalneav> I've proposed it for a meeting, do I have to beg mdz for time?
[07:44] <sbalneav> ogra_: Yeah, just going though my schedule, and trying to make things a bit easier for everyone.
[07:45] <ogra_> sbalneav, yeah, you need t beg mdz
[07:45] <sbalneav> :|
[07:45] <ogra_> *to
[07:45] <sbalneav> Does he still like me? :)
[07:45] <ogra_> he's very open on that :)
[07:45] <ogra_> suuure :)
[07:45] <sbalneav> What's the best way?   Email?
[07:46] <ogra_> either that or just ask him if you run over him
[07:46] <ogra_> err ... into indeed :)
[07:47] <pips1> run over.. hehe
[07:48] <sbalneav> ok, I'll email now, and if I see him, I'll run him over.
[07:48] <ogra_> *g*
[07:51] <sbalneav> ok, sent email.
[07:51] <ogra_> great
[07:51] <sbalneav> pygi: start editing :)
[07:51] <ogra_> nah....
[07:51] <ogra_> start implementing ;)
[07:51] <sbalneav> lol
[07:52] <sbalneav> working code trumps theory every time :)
[07:52] <ogra_> hehe
[07:52] <pygi> sbalneav, ogra_ : I'm working on multi session code :P
[07:53] <ogra_> via ltsp ? wow, great :)
[07:53] <ogra_> ;)
[07:53] <sbalneav> LTSP FTW
[07:54] <ogra_> \o/
[07:54] <pygi> ogra_, not via LTSP :P
[07:54] <pygi> don't mess around with me :P
[07:55] <sbalneav> If you don't want to get messed around with, you're hanging out in the wrong channel.  :) That's what we do best :)
[07:55] <ogra_> heh
[07:55] <Nuffing> hi sbalneav :)
[07:55] <pygi> errghhh :P
[07:55] <sbalneav> Hello Nuffing
[07:55] <ogra_> hey Jane !!!!
[07:55] <Nuffing> sbalneav, oh sorry Nuffing = JaneW
[07:55] <Nuffing> hey ogra :)
[07:55] <pygi> Nuffing, yay, hello you :)
[07:55] <Nuffing> hi pygi
[07:55] <pygi> long time no see
[07:55] <sbalneav> Nuffing: Hey Hey!
[07:56] <Nuffing> TV is not half as appealing without the foot rub ;)
[07:56] <sbalneav> :)
[07:59] <pygi> sbalneav, is it in our scope for example to patch Brasero to make it work over LTSP? :P
[08:00] <pygi> sbalneav, also trivial editing done, please see and say that everything is bad
[08:01] <moquist> ogra_: hi :)
[08:03] <sbalneav> pygi: Looks good.  I'll do some fleshing out a bit later.
[08:04] <pygi> sbalneav, ok, that's nicer way to say that it's bad :)
[08:04] <sbalneav> Not bat at all.
[08:04] <sbalneav> err bad
[08:27] <pygi> Nuffing, how is you? any good news? :)
[09:06] <stgraber> for edubuntu people at udsmtv, there is the #edubuntu-uds channel
[09:09] <highvoltage> were?
[09:09] <highvoltage> where?
[09:09] <stgraber> what ?
[09:10] <highvoltage> where is the edubuntu-uds channel?
[09:10] <stgraber> on irc, freenode
[09:11] <highvoltage> I just find an empty channel when I join it :/
[11:08] <pygi> hey bddebian
[11:08] <bddebian> Heya pygi
[11:08] <pygi> bddebian, Am I free to bug you? :)
[11:09] <bddebian> For whatever it's worth, sure