[14:56]  * skaet waves
[14:56] <roadmr> hello!
[14:57] <skaet> hiya roadmr
[14:57]  * stgraber waves
[14:58]  * smartboyhw waves
[14:58] <popey> o/
[14:58]  * gema_ is disappointed, but present
[15:00] <skaet> #startmeeting
[15:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Fri Aug 24 15:00:39 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[15:00] <skaet> Agenda (and minute location):
[15:00] <skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-08-24
[15:00] <skaet> .
[15:00] <skaet> Upcoming dates:
[15:00] <skaet> 12.10
[15:00] <skaet>     2012/08/30: Quantal Beta 1 Freeze and User Interface Freeze
[15:00] <skaet>     2012/09/06: 12.10 Beta 1
[15:01] <skaet> .
[15:01] <skaet> Work Items:
[15:01] <skaet> 2012/08/24 -  3011 (was 3011  (last  week):   We are behind the trendline for some of the projects.
[15:01] <skaet> We’ve now gone into Feature Freeze, so getting us back on track would be appreciated.  If something is clearly not going to make it this cycle, please mark it POSTPONED.
[15:01] <skaet> Please help get us back where we should be by making sure https://launchpad.net/~/+upcomingwork is up to date for your tasks.
[15:01] <skaet> .
[15:01] <skaet> Bugs:
[15:01] <skaet> Quantal: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[15:01] <skaet> .
[15:01] <skaet> Weekly Status Received:
[15:01] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001786.html - Kubuntu - Riddell
[15:01] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001788.html - PS - popey
[15:01] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001790.html - 12.04.1 testing - jibel
[15:01] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001792.html - Kernel - ogasawara
[15:01] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001794.html - Security - jdstrand
[15:01] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001795.html - Ubuntu One - joshuahoover
[15:01] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001798.html - Lubuntu - gilir
[15:01] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001803.html - Edubuntu - stgraber
[15:01] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001804.html - Linaro - fabo
[15:01] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001805.html - Desktop - seb128
[15:01] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001806.html - hwcert - brendand
[15:01] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001807.html - QA - gema
[15:01] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001808.html - foundations - ogra
[15:01] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001813.html - server - arosales
[15:01] <skaet> ?? - community testing - balloons
[15:01] <skaet> ?? - Xubuntu - astraljava
[15:02] <skaet> ?? - Ubuntu Studio - scott-work
[15:02] <skaet> .
[15:02] <skaet> Thank you to everyone participating in getting 12.04.1 released!   I was contrasting the number of bug fixes, reviews, image builds, testing we did with 10.04.1 informally  and we’ve definitely up’d the game.   Well done!
[15:02] <skaet> #topic Questions and Comments
[15:03] <skaet> So now that 12.04.1 is out the door, focus solidifies on 12.10  :)   Yesterday was Feature Freeze, and based on the burn down charts - its pretty clear there are some things coming in late.
[15:03] <skaet> Open question for today is Feature Freeze exceptions - what’s needed?
[15:03] <skaet> any one have "o/" before I start into some questions?
[15:05]  * seb128 lists desktop ffe exceptions in his email (sorry for sending it only today, I didn't have all the infos yesterday and we were still crazy busy landing work)
[15:05] <skaet> popey - for the compiz features landing,  which bug is being used to track the FFe?  we’ll be going into UIF next week - will UIFe be needed as well, or will all the bits land by then.
[15:05] <skaet> seb128, yup understood
[15:06] <popey> We haven't created a bug yet for FFe, guidance welcome in that regard. Do we have just one master FFe bug or individual bugs per feature?
[15:06] <skaet> popey,  probably one per component, with what's planned to land would work.
[15:07] <skaet> popey,  I'll get together with you afterwards then and we can sort it a bit.
[15:07] <popey> ok, we can do that, do we need to subscribe a team/person?
[15:07] <popey> ok, great, that will help
[15:07] <popey> ...
[15:07] <skaet> will all the pieces land by next Thursday (User Interface Freeze)?
[15:07] <popey> almost certainly not
[15:08] <skaet> hmm... so most of it won't make Beta 1 then.   yeah,  we'll need to be figuring out a plan, since this will ripple into multiple other teams (docs, translations etc.)
[15:09] <smartboyhw> Er, balloons's smuumary: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001815.html
[15:09] <seb128> popey, which ones do you see missing uif?
[15:09] <popey> probably webapps
[15:12] <ogra_> o/
[15:12]  * skaet thanks smartboyhw for posting balloons summary
[15:12] <smartboyhw> NP
[15:13] <skaet> .. (I think)
[15:13] <popey> oops yes, ..
[15:13] <skaet> :)
[15:13] <skaet> go ogra_
[15:14] <ogra_> seb128, your report indicates you guys are looking into compiz GLES .... just wanting to make sure :)
[15:14] <ogra_> ..
[15:14] <seb128> ogra_, it's landed in compiz trunk
[15:14] <ogra_> i know
[15:14] <ogra_> but not in the archive :)
[15:14] <seb128> we separated from compiz-gsettings to not have too much transitions going on at the same time
[15:14] <seb128> and that needs to land with the new unity
[15:14] <seb128> which is late on other things
[15:15] <seb128> having gsettings out of the way will make the next update easier hopefully
[15:15] <ogra_> right, i just want to know if i need to switch the panda images to openbox for final :)
[15:15] <seb128> so gles and new unity are scheduled for next week (earlier than late if possible)
[15:15] <seb128> ..
[15:15] <ogra_> awesome, thanks !
[15:15] <seb128> yw
[15:15] <ogra_> ..
[15:15] <seb128> (depends if you get drivers I gues)
[15:15] <seb128> ..
[15:15] <popey> +1 seb128 it'll be first thing we do next week
[15:15] <popey> ..
[15:15] <ogra_> we have drivers
[15:15] <seb128> ok, so we should be good soon
[15:15] <ogra_> just paperwork missing
[15:16] <ogra_> libdri2 was uploaded to NEW before the meetingg, once thats in the archive i'll upload the PVR package and we are golden
[15:16] <ogra_> ..
[15:17] <rsalveti> \o/
[15:17] <rsalveti> ..
[15:17] <skaet> thanks.  :)  I think this just answered the question I was going to ask from fabo's report too.
[15:17] <skaet> ..
[15:18] <ogra_> :)
[15:18] <skaet> seb128,  did you get together with TheMuso on the accessibility tests?   would be good to have that resolved before Beta1
[15:19] <seb128> skaet, I didn't manage to catch him on IRC but I sent an email out this morning, will be resolved by next meeting for sure (if he doesn't reply I will just go ahead and make the test list)
[15:19] <skaet> thanks seb128
[15:19] <seb128> np, sorry it's taking so long :-(
[15:19] <skaet> ..
[15:20] <skaet> any one else have "o/" today?
[15:20] <gema> o/
[15:20] <skaet> go gema
[15:20] <gema> I'd like to talk about the grief we've had in QA due to all the last minute respins
[15:21] <gema> and how we are expected to react, rather than being able to plan
[15:21] <gema> in my opinion
[15:21] <gema> Quality is not about shipping without errors, it is about shipping predictable software, documenting the problems found gives us a better chance at the release than introducing new problems last minute trying to solve those
[15:21] <stgraber> would you have preferred we ship with an image that doesn't fit on a media?
[15:21] <gema> stgraber: yes
[15:22] <gema> stgraber: because now we are shipping something that fits on a media but may have extra errors that we don't know about
[15:22] <gema> stgraber: so I prefer to ship known quality than unknown quality
[15:23] <brendand> stgraber, when you say 'fits on a media', you mean not even USB stick?
[15:23] <slangasek> the 12.04 images are specified to fit on a CD
[15:23] <stgraber> brendand: we're talking 12.04, 12.04 needs to fit on a standard 700MB media
[15:23] <slangasek> if it's oversized, it's not fit to purpose
[15:23] <stgraber> brendand: we had a last minute detected oversized image that required a respin yesterday
[15:24] <stgraber> the real problem is that the image was build on the 17th and it took until the publishing, a few hours before release to notice it was oversized
[15:24] <stgraber> so that means nobody tested using the target media (blank CD, standard size)
[15:25] <brendand> gema - that does need to be part of QA, no?
[15:25] <gema> brendand: ideally, that image should fail in the build system if it is oversized
[15:25] <gema> brendand: but yeah, we should have a test case for that
[15:25] <slangasek> no, that's not ideal
[15:25] <Laney> I don't think that's ideal
[15:25] <gema> why not?
[15:25] <slangasek> there are many cases where we know we can't get the image down to size yet during development, but we still need to have an image available for testing
[15:26] <gema> slangasek: I remember seeing warnings of that on the website where you publish the imates
[15:26] <gema> images
[15:26] <brendand> gema, i think it's the difference between releasing it and just having an image to test
[15:26] <brendand> gema, you can *test* an oversized image, but you can't release it
[15:26] <slangasek> we *should* catch oversized issues much sooner than when we're going to publish; the problem is that the only place the information is published is on cdimage.ubuntu.com, where no one was looking
[15:26] <gema> I don't see why you cannot release it, but that is besides the point
[15:27] <slangasek> (because the ISO tracker hides that implementation detail)
[15:27] <gema> we can add a mandatory test case to the tracker so that we don't forget to check in the future
[15:27] <gema> and issue solved
[15:27] <gema> that's not my problem
[15:27] <slangasek> gema: because we specified that we were releasing CD images for 12.04, and this was not a CD image
[15:28] <slangasek> stgraber and I have discussed what needs to happen so that oversized images are flagged much earlier to the release team as well, so this particular problem doesn't recur
[15:28] <gema> cool, slangasek, as I said, it is not one particular problem that bothers me
[15:28] <stgraber> FWIW we didn't have any fallback image for amd64 and amd64+mac, so as we had the requirement of releasing a CD image, I had the option to fix + respin or not release the 64bit image
[15:28] <slangasek> gema: right; I understand that
[15:28] <gema> the respin on wed was equally problematic in my view
[15:28] <gema> due to a corner case
[15:29] <stgraber> I still think the decision to respin was right, I ran a full diff of the livefs and cd content, so I have the exact list of files that changed as well as their content, all the tests were ran against the 64bit livefs and they all passed
[15:29] <gema> stgraber: I still think it is wrong, but it is ok to disagree on this
[15:29] <gema> what I am more worried about is how lightly we take respinning
[15:30] <gema> and how little consideration we give to QA in the process
[15:30] <slangasek> I don't think it's being taken lightly at all
[15:30] <stgraber> so we essentially released a fully tested image, if that's not the case, then something is wrong with the testcase list on the tracker, because they certainly were telling me everything was tested
[15:30] <skaet> respinning is not taken lightly at all.
[15:30] <Daviey> Yeah, i am quite suprised there is complaint at this.
[15:30] <slangasek> it's a pain for everyone involved, both in QA and in the release team
[15:30] <Daviey> repining is documented for the reasoning why
[15:30] <slangasek> it's *more* of a pain for the QA team, certainly
[15:31] <Daviey> There was at least one issue, which would have been nice to include.. but wasn't respan for, that i know of.
[15:31] <stgraber> in this case, the pain was really on me more than QA to be honnest, I am the one who had to spend 3 hours fixing the image, do the respin, do the diffs and did most of the amd64 testing (while jibel was doing amd64+mac smoke test)
[15:31] <slangasek> but even if QA was automatic and instantaneous, a respin still throws off the release team's schedule... we're having to react to such changes just as much as QA does
[15:32] <gema> slangasek: I am not saying you guys are not suffering from it
[15:32] <gema> I am saying it can be made less painful for everyone
[15:32] <stgraber> we had to delay the release accordingly, making quite a lot of people on the release team work overtime (not to mention the folks in London who had to stay up until past midnight)
[15:32] <gema> if we all work together towards that
[15:32] <Daviey> well, the phrasing of "little consideration" does imply that care wasn't taken.
[15:32] <gema> Daviey: I said taken lightly, I think
[15:33] <Daviey> < gema> and how little consideration we give to QA in the process
[15:33] <gema> but english is not my first language, so didn't try to offend anyone
[15:33] <Daviey> but anyway.
[15:33] <gema> ahh, ok, yes
[15:33] <gema> that's how I felt and I have had conversations with other fellow testers which felt the same way
[15:33] <gema> all I am asking for is to consider revising the process and introducing changes
[15:34] <slangasek> how would you revise the process?
[15:34] <skaet> gema, constructive suggestions on ways we can improve are useful,  but we do need to meet produce images that are fitting the purpose on a time basis, so have to take that into account
[15:34] <gema> skaet: agreed
[15:34] <slangasek> I don't expect we're going to change the process to declare that we never respin
[15:34] <gema> slangasek: I don't know, I need to think about that
[15:34] <slangasek> ok :)
[15:35] <gema> slangasek: change is good if it is to fix things, they just need to be fixed in time for us to be able to test
[15:35] <gema> and stgraber having only your opinion on how good/bad the images are doesn't fill me with as much confidence as if most of the QA team had had a chance to test the images
[15:35] <gema> nothing personal, just a matter of coverage
[15:35] <skaet> and getting the manual testing to be efficient has to be part of it though.
[15:35] <gema> and confidence that more eyes went through the changes
[15:35] <slangasek> gema: sure, I understand; and part of the calculation the release team needs to make is whether a bug is so important to fix (i.e., is "stop ship") that we would want to let the image be delayed rather than release it as-is
[15:36] <stgraber> gema: well, I surely would have liked to go back in time and respin the image on the 17th, unfortunately that's not an option... so we spotted that at the last minute and as we're doing time based releases, had to fix, retest and release in just a few hours
[15:36] <stgraber> I'm not saying that's a good thing, but that's how things are and we have to live with it
[15:36] <skaet> gema,  the change was that we dropped a language pack,   we figured out the impact and took the risk, with a fall back.
[15:36] <gema> stgraber: we could have delayed the release until today
[15:36] <gema> stgraber: there were other options
[15:36] <skaet> gema,  we're a time based release.
[15:36] <Daviey> gema: surely the whole point of posting results to the iso tracker, is to allow the release team to consider if a respin is needed?
[15:37] <Daviey> Polling each member of the QA team is odd.
[15:37] <gema> Daviey: I am not asking for that
[15:37] <slangasek> so does that mean the respun image didn't go through the ISO testing process?
[15:37] <Daviey> Personally, i think the product managers require more input than the QA team.
[15:37] <stgraber> as far as I'm concerned, if the product lead signs-off and I have all testcases covered on the tracker, an image is good to ship
[15:37] <Daviey> +1
[15:37] <stgraber> if that's not the case, then the process needs fixing to reflect that
[15:38] <gema> stgraber: agreed
[15:38] <skaet> slangasek,  jibel and stgraber went through the test cases so it did go through ISO testing process
[15:38] <gema> it needs to change
[15:38] <Daviey> gema: What aspect ?
[15:38] <jocarter> what should change, specifically, gema?
[15:38] <gema> the approach is wrong
[15:39] <gema> having a set of results on the tracker from the same people that are making the changes is just not enough confidence
[15:39] <gema> imo
[15:39] <Daviey> I always considered it such that the release team makes the call on what is releasable, with input from the QA team for testing and approval from the product managers.
[15:39] <gema> we need to plan for the time it takes to have more HW covered in our testing
[15:39] <Daviey> gema: That isn't the apprach
[15:39] <Daviey> approach
[15:39] <stgraber> Daviey: yep, that's how it should be. The release team is the one making the release decision, not QA.
[15:39] <xnox> gema: do you mean: as in three pairs of eyeballs minimum? one to change, one to test, one to sign off?
[15:40] <gema> xnox: along those lines, but we need to review and agree on something more solid
[15:40] <Daviey> gema: The fact that in prior history, the QA team wasn't able to give us the coverage, meant that we had to do it within the product teams for it to get done.
[15:40] <gema> imo
[15:40] <Daviey> Thankfully, this is improving
[15:40] <skaet> +1
[15:40] <gema> exactly Daviey
[15:40] <balloons> I think gema is concerned these exceptions are more often the norm in releasing. We all agree last minute testing and fixing is not the ideal way to go (working overtime, doing everything last minute and on a time crunch, etc)
[15:41] <gema> yet our opinion doesn't really count
[15:41] <stgraber> FWIW, I wouldn't have trusted an image with a single tester, but in this case, I did the change, infinity reviewed it, IS reviewed and landed it and the image was tested by me, jibel and balloons
[15:41] <stgraber> so that's way enough eyeballs as far as I'm concerned
[15:41] <balloons> I will say I am impressed with the release team as a whole in order to mount efforts to stay on the timetable.. you deserve credit for that
[15:42] <jocarter> balloons: and besides that even... they keep level-headed and calm and professional even when they're tired and overworked. I have lots of respect for the release team.
[15:42] <gema> I would rather them not overworking to be able to achieve the releasing
[15:43] <gema> :)
[15:43] <gema> but +1 balloons and jocarter
[15:43] <skaet> Will you be circulating an email to ubuntu-release with your ideas on ways we can improve?
[15:43] <skaet> gema, ^
[15:44] <Daviey> It's really not clear to me what you are suggesting changing.  Nobody wants last minute dashes, and thankfully.. they are on the decline.
[15:44] <balloons> so I think everyone's goal here is the same.. we don't want last minute changes being the norm for releasing.. To gema's points, we need to investigate (as always) what can be done to avoid the last minute changes.. However, gema it sounds like you might be able to come up with a better way of handling them..
[15:44] <skaet> where we is QA, release, development.
[15:44] <balloons> at least something that helps your confidence level?
[15:44] <gema> skaet: I cannot nor want to decide this unilaterally, I think we need to talk
[15:44] <gema> skaet: I will put a list of ideas together if you like, but nothing will change until we all agree that there is a problem
[15:44] <skaet> gema,  I was asking for ideas on an email thread so we can continue this discussion.
[15:45] <gema> if you guys don't see it then I am not presenting a good case and I need to rethink that
[15:45] <skaet> the timing is right now,  for good discussion,  and then follow up at UDS.
[15:45] <gema> skaet: ok
[15:45] <Daviey> gema: All that has been said so far as far as i can see, is "the current process doesn't take QA's view enough into account".. but a specific idea of what you'd like to see improved, would really help
[15:46] <gema> Daviey: ok, I will put that in an email and send it to you guys for further discussion
[15:46] <Daviey> super, thanks.
[15:46] <gema> will try to give specific examples as well as generic ideas
[15:46] <balloons> gema, consider walking through hypothetical examples and talk about how you feel it's handled now, vs how you wish it to be handled
[15:46] <balloons> +1
[15:46] <gema> balloons: you arae going to help me build that email, I hope :)
[15:47] <gema> with your experiences as well
[15:47] <Daviey> that leads to a them an us, lets have an open discussion :)
[15:47] <balloons> gema, I would be happy to.. It's important to frame how you feel it's being handled as well.. we sometimes assume or understand things incorrectly :-)
[15:47] <gema> balloons: I am not afraid of being wrong, I do QA for a living
[15:48] <balloons> gema, kick off your thoughts, we'll all pitch back reponses
[15:48] <gema> ack
[15:48] <gema> I am done , skaet
[15:48] <gema> ..
[15:48] <skaet> Thanks gema.
[15:48] <arosales> o/
[15:49] <skaet> go arosales
[15:49] <arosales> server will most likely have a FFE for ARM support in MAAS and oprofile (universe)
[15:49] <arosales> ..
[15:49] <skaet> Thanks arosales,   please include the bug number of it in your next week's status if its not resolved by then.  ;)
[15:50] <skaet> on that note - when do you see it landing?
[15:50] <Daviey> looking at the development RSN.
[15:50]  * xnox 0/
[15:50] <skaet> RSN?
[15:50] <Daviey> real soon now
[15:51] <skaet> lol
[15:51] <arosales> skaet: no firm ETA yet, but hopefully mid sept
[15:51] <skaet> ok, after beta 1,  so definitely need to be communicating it and planning.   gotcha.
[15:51] <arosales> actively working on both items
[15:51]  * skaet nods
[15:51] <arosales> ..
[15:51] <skaet> ..
[15:51] <balloons> o/
[15:52] <skaet> go xnox
[15:52] <xnox> ubiquity - lvm & crypto in manual partitionaire, might slip UIF and hence might need FFe for that functionality.
[15:53] <xnox> to be bugfiles & discussed on how to best land it to minimise disruptions, since landing that might brake the installer. (e.g. after crypto work landed there were 3 bugs preventing sertain type of installs due to fallout).
[15:53] <xnox> s/bugfiles/bugfiled/
[15:54] <skaet> thanks xnox.    ogra_ will you please make sure the bugs are included in your status next week?
[15:54] <xnox> (after crypto work, the images were fixed 3 or 5 days later, can't remember)
[15:54] <xnox> ..
[15:54] <ogra_> skaet, will do
[15:54] <skaet> slangasek,  will we be turning off alternates for beta 1?
[15:55] <skaet> thanks ogra_, xnox for raising it here.
[15:56] <xnox> ..
[15:56] <slangasek> skaet: I need to kick off a thread on ubuntu-devel about it to gather feedback about the missing RAID support; I'll do that today or Monday, I think we can probably converge quickly on a decision in time for the beta freeze
[15:56] <Laney> o/
[15:56] <skaet> thanks slangasek.
[15:56] <skaet> ..
[15:56] <skaet> go balloons
[15:57] <balloons> I just wanted to chat briefly about what I mentioned in my mail.. How we communicate with the community is important, if we want to continue building a good working relationship
[15:57] <balloons> Recently some of the changes have caused a bit of grief for those testing..
[15:59] <balloons> I can get into specifics, but I would rather focus on what we can do to ensure we are communicating more effectively with our testing community. To some extent, that's a worry for me :-) Hence me bringing it up. There's technical and non-technical ideas -- should be communicate more within the desktop, or should we require folks to follow a certain mailing list, etc, etc
[15:59] <skaet> seb128, popey - any ideas how we can help balloons?
[16:00]  * skaet is thinking of the 2D and 3D scenario evolving... ;)
[16:00] <balloons> Mostly I'd like to make sure that big changes that will have an effect on what's going on in QA are discussed here.. That generally happens, but not always..
[16:00] <seb128> not really, I don't have the specifics?
[16:00] <seb128> is that about unity-2d dropping and the impact on vms?
[16:00] <balloons> Well, for instance I'll pick on the nvidia / xorg change
[16:01] <seb128> what would you have liked to see better done there?
[16:01] <balloons> That change obviously impacted alot of people.. A few day s after popey and the unity team wanted some triaging on multi-monitor bugs, and of course the unity/compiz changes
[16:01] <popey> is it that the people affected didn't know the issue was coming down the line, or they did know and are still adversely affected anyway? What's the most irritation there?
[16:01] <seb128> it was announced on -devel but admittedly late and in a non really verbose way
[16:02] <balloons> yes, I don't think the fact the change went in (and would break things for people) is as much of a concern as the fact it was unknown
[16:02] <ogra_> seb128, even in the planning it was awfully hidden ...
[16:02] <seb128> imho we should use -devel to announce such things
[16:02] <balloons> so it was a, you update, and boom your stuff is broken
[16:02] <seb128> I'm still unhappy about how -release handled the xorg,nvidia stuff
[16:02] <ogra_> seb128, there is one spec where dropping of unity-2d is mentioned in a half sentence
[16:03] <ogra_> beyond things like the mentioning of it on ubuntugeel and omgubuntu, you couldnt really find any official info about the move
[16:03] <seb128> well, different story:
[16:03] <seb128> - nvidia,xorg was a known issue, poorly handled from -release imho and poorly communicated to -devel our community
[16:03] <popey> I don't think -devel is the best way to communicate critical things like this to people. I'd be surprised if many quantal users are on that list.
[16:03] <ogra_> i think that step is a big enough move qith enough impact that it would have deserved a full spec
[16:03] <seb128> - unity-2d was publicly announced in plenty of spaces and specs
[16:04] <balloons> yes I agree.. -devel isn't the place to announce
[16:04] <balloons> well.. not the only place :-)
[16:04] <ogra_> written by DX (with explanations what are the plans, tests etc) ... and implemented by desktop
[16:04] <seb128> popey, what easy communication channel do we have?
[16:04] <ogra_> ..
[16:04] <popey> OMG!Ubuntu! :)
[16:04] <seb128> popey, easy, like for those of use who don't spend hours every day on every social website on the internet :p
[16:05] <popey> heh
[16:05] <balloons> to some extent that falls on me.. and I'm happy to help in that regard
[16:05] <seb128> popey, I've no clue how to get something published on omgubuntu and I don't consider it an official media channel
[16:05] <popey> if you went to omg / webupd8 / muktware you'd hit a _huge_ number of people in one go
[16:05] <seb128> well
[16:05] <ogra_> seb128, delegate bloging to one of you team members then ;)
[16:05] <seb128> I'm happy to improve how we communicate
[16:05] <balloons> Getting an official channel for this stuff.. right now, ubuntu-qa mailing list is a good start, but there are folks who aren't on the list
[16:06] <popey> i completely understand that perspective seb128
[16:06] <ogra_> if you think planet is a more official mediam
[16:06] <ogra_> *medium
[16:06] <seb128> ogra_, nobody in my team is into blogging
[16:06] <popey> but what we're doing is something "newsworthy" so we should publish it as "news"
[16:06] <balloons> imho, somehow sending it out to users when they update would be really cool.. but, in general if we could manage to alert at least those who are actively testing and helping it would go a long way
[16:06] <seb128> we should maybe set up a "news feed" then
[16:06] <Laney> there's already a news team
[16:07] <seb128> where feed is whatever you guys who do communication find an efficient way to deal with news
[16:07] <Laney> could we CC such announcements there and have it get out that way?
[16:07] <Daviey> Generally, all engineering teams need to get better at blogging.
[16:07] <seb128> Daviey, we are back at what ogra was saying though
[16:07] <seb128> blog will reach 1% users
[16:07] <seb128> I don't read blogs, I've no time for that, and I'm sure a good part of our users have no interest in blogs or planet ubuntu
[16:07] <Daviey> Yes, but OMG et al will no doubt use it as a reference for continuation stories
[16:07] <ogra_> seb128, well, before that i said it should have been planned better (by DX) ... if  there is a spec it is way better noticed by the community
[16:08] <balloons> I guess I would at least like to know about things like this in advance.. and in general the other leads in this meeting should also know
[16:08] <seb128> that seems like a "rely on some other people to do something you don't know if they are going to do"
[16:08] <skaet> some sort of push of info to all folks who are registered as wanting to help test (subscribed to related test cases?) could be an option to reach those affected as well?
[16:08] <ogra_> and people might watch its implementation status (and are prepared of whats coming)
[16:08]  * Daviey notes that El Reg almost wrote a story about something i added to the wiki alone.
[16:08] <seb128> ogra_, sorry, what you talking about? xorg,nvidia or unity2d?
[16:08] <seb128> ogra_, unity2d dropping had full specs
[16:09] <seb128> ogra_, and was discussed at UDS in public sessions
[16:09] <Daviey> Perhaps I am biased, but i'm more annoyed that X/libdrm broke *server* install media. :)
[16:09] <ogra_> seb128, spec url ?
[16:09] <seb128> ogra_, in fact I even announced it during the closing plenary
[16:09] <ogra_> seb128, sorry, but all i can find is a single sentence from a BOF discussion note in one of the desktop team specs
[16:09] <seb128> from my notes
[16:10] <balloons> seb128, I believe unity2d was a known thing.. people knew it would happen.. they may have been a bit surprised when it did, but again, they were prepared on the idea
[16:10] <seb128> "llvmpipe and opengles support in Unity 3D -> dropping 2d if we can (a11y, llvmpipe performanc, gsettings support to compiz)"
[16:10] <seb128> balloons, seems ogra was not
[16:10] <seb128> ogra_, let's take that out of meeting, that's a bit off topic
[16:10] <ogra_> seb128, i knew it .... when i asked about it the answer was "we dont know yet"
[16:10] <skaet> hmm..   we're a bit over now,  but this topic probably should be taken to the maillist as well now.
[16:11] <seb128> going back to the better communication way, I don't have a strong opinion
[16:11] <ogra_> seb128, and there was no spec i could look up the plans
[16:11] <ogra_> (or anyone from the community could)
[16:11] <balloons> ok, so coming back around on this. I would like to see us internally communicating better..
[16:11] <balloons> I will help distribute that to others..
[16:11] <seb128> what about letting popey, balloons and whoever is interested define a channel others should use for announces?
[16:11] <balloons> longer term finding better channels is the goal
[16:11] <Daviey> balloons: external communication would surely be better than internal ? :)
[16:11] <ogra_> i'm not complaining about not knowing it, i'm complaining about the whole thing not having been documented and planned in advance so that people can look up whats jjhappening
[16:11] <skaet> balloons are you getting what you need from the weekly section of == what's about to land that will affect other teams == ?
[16:12] <seb128> popey, balloons: want to work on defining a standard workflow that teams should use to get news out?
[16:12] <popey> we have a communications team
[16:12] <balloons> for instance, slangasek's annouce about dropping alt images.. people know about it. let's try and communicate that clearly now
[16:12] <balloons> Since I heard about it here, I can communicate it out and look for his email
[16:12] <ogra_> seb128, there were plenty people in the community asking about unity-2d and the status (and if they could help testing llvmpipe) since months
[16:13] <ogra_> there was no place to point them to
[16:13] <seb128> ogra_, let's take that particular issue out of the meeting, it's specific
[16:14] <skaet> balloons,  can you start a thread off on this, so we can continue to add our ideas?
[16:14] <balloons> skaet, sure
[16:14] <skaet> Thanks
[16:14] <skaet> Laney,  still have a question before I end the meeting?
[16:14] <Laney> well, it's kind of a note
[16:14] <skaet> :)
[16:14] <Laney> the indicator gtk2 dropping has broken xubuntu, lubuntu, ubuntustudio
[16:15] <Laney> I didn't see any note of that in their release reports
[16:15] <Laney> just wanted to check that it was known
[16:15] <balloons> Laney, bug?
[16:15] <xnox> Laney: is it pending splitting source package in two & uploading old gtk2-only package?
[16:15] <skaet> gilir, astraljava, scott-work  ^^
[16:16] <gilir> Laney, it's known, we are trying to find a solution to upload a gtk2 source
[16:16] <xnox> balloons: there was thread on -release or -devel where the feedback was gathered about dropping gtk2-indicators
[16:16] <Laney> xnox: I suppose that and a maintainer
[16:16] <Laney> balloons: I don't have a bug number, just noted that the images were no longer building because of this
[16:16] <skaet> thanks Laney
[16:16] <Laney> so, probably a concern for beta 1 for these product
[16:16] <Laney> s
[16:17] <Laney> ..
[16:17] <skaet> appreciate you bringing it up here.    Thanks.
[16:17] <skaet> ok,   we're way over,  so time to end meeting....
[16:17] <Daviey> Thanks.
[16:17] <skaet> please take follow up to the ubuntu-release email list.
[16:18] <skaet> Thanks balloons, gema, arosales, seb128, popey, slangasek, stgraber, Daviey, smartboyhw, ogra_, rsalveti, brendand, Laney, jocarter, xnox, for the good discussions today.
[16:18] <skaet> #endmeeting
[16:18] <meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Aug 24 16:18:14 2012 UTC.
[16:18] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-24-15.00.moin.txt
[16:18] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-24-15.00.html
[16:18] <seb128> skaet, thanks
[16:18] <balloons> thanks skaet !
[16:18] <ogra_> thanks skaet
[16:18] <gema> thanks!
[16:18] <arosales> thanks for charing skaet
[16:18] <xnox> aloha skaet !
[16:18] <stgraber> thanks!
[16:22] <rsalveti> thanks!
[16:52] <jocarter> thanks!
[16:57] <xnox> jocarter: never late, just delayed
[16:58] <jocarter> they say it's never too late to stop procrastinating.


[01:16] <george_e> Me again :)
[01:16] <george_e> "File cmake_2.8.9.orig.tar.gz already exists in Primary Archive for Ubuntu, but uploaded version has different contents."
[01:16] <george_e> Why am I getting this error for uploading a build for Precise to my PPA?
[01:17] <george_e> ...when CMake 2.8.9 isn't even _in_ the Precise archives?
[01:20] <tsimpson> george_e: I don't think it matters that it's not in precise, but that it exists at all in the archives
[01:23] <wgrant> Right, Debian pool-style archives can only have one file of a particular name, regardless of series.
[01:23] <wgrant> However, that error raises a more disturbing issue
[01:23] <wgrant> Why does your cmake 2.8.9 tarball differ from the one in Ubuntu?
[01:24] <wgrant> If it's the original 2.8.9 tarball as the filename suggests, then it should be identical
[01:24] <george_e> I had to add a "dummy" changelog entry in order to sign the upload with my GPG key.
[01:24] <wgrant> That won't change the orig.tar.gz
[01:24] <george_e> Oh right.
[01:25] <george_e> I got the source from here: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/112824362/cmake_2.8.9.orig.tar.gz
[01:25] <wgrant> Can you pastebin your .dsc?
[01:26] <george_e> I'm afraid not - this happened late last night and I was working in /tmp - so it's gone :(
[01:26] <george_e> So let me try to reproduce it then.
[01:26] <wgrant> Anyway, you somehow changed that file
[01:26] <wgrant> That's the URL to the Ubuntu tarball, and it's identical to the one on the upstream download page
[01:26] <wgrant> So you must have changed it somehow somewhere along the line
[01:27] <george_e> I'll try it again.
[01:27] <george_e> No clue how it got changed.
[05:01] <george_e> Isn't "2.8.9~precise1" >= "2.8.9" ???
[05:01] <wgrant> george_e: No
[05:01] <wgrant> ~ is less than anything at all, including the empty string
[05:01] <george_e> :(
[05:01] <wgrant> That's its entire purpose
[05:01] <george_e> Should I have used a dash?
[05:02] <wgrant> Dashes a special
[05:02] <wgrant> are
[05:02] <wgrant> Perhaps you want a +
[05:02] <george_e> Ah, that would work.
[05:02] <george_e> Thank you.
[05:02] <wgrant> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Version
[05:03] <wgrant> dpkg --compare-versions 2.8.9~precise lt 2.8.9 && echo "true" || echo "false"
[05:03] <wgrant> might also be handy
[05:03] <george_e> Thank you.
[05:04] <george_e> Also, does the '1' at the end mean anything?
[05:04] <george_e> Doesn't it have something to do with Debian revisions?
[05:04] <george_e> Ah - nvm. That link you gave me explains it.
[05:04] <wgrant> Nothing in particular, it just makes things a bit clearer if you ever need a second revision (it can become ~precise2)
[05:04] <wgrant> It's very very rarely used in that case
[05:05] <george_e> Okay. So it's fine at '1' then.
[05:06] <wgrant> Yep
[05:07]  * george_e tries the upload again.
[05:14] <george_e> All of this work and then I discover this:
[05:14] <george_e> "You can test-build the backport in your PPA with backportpackage:"
[05:14] <george_e> "$ backportpackage -u ppa:<lp username>/<ppa name> -s raring -d quantal cmake"


[13:58] <xubuntu61w> Anyone aware of launchers not working when trying to execute shell script
[13:59] <diogenes_> xubuntu61w, what is the Exec=?
[14:00] <xubuntu61w> Tried mate-terminal -- scriptname   also /bin/bash scriptname
[14:02] <xubuntu61w> When using mate-terminal get G_DBUS errors
[14:02] <rud0lf> `xfce4-terminal -e /path/to/script` maybe?
[14:04] <xubuntu61w> Does xfce4-terminal require a sudo apt install ?
[14:08] <rud0lf> not on default xubuntu which is xfce4
[14:09] <xubuntu61w> I am using Lubuntu now. Am going to try xubuntu...
[14:09] <rud0lf> ah
[14:11] <xubuntu61w> Apparently it has something to do with GUI tie in.
[14:12] <rud0lf> maybe `lxterminal -e /path/to/script.sh`
[14:12] <rud0lf> but `Exec=bash script.sh` should work with no problem
[14:16] <xubuntu61w> Problem is ansi screen control codes get lost. And that
[14:17] <xubuntu61w> screws up applications that use for example cursor position
[14:20] <xubuntu61w> As we speak Xubuntu is installing on a VM to try..
[14:23] <xubuntu61w> By default Lubuntu has something called  qterminal
[14:28] <xubuntu61w> I have these old languages Cobol, Focal, Bybasic and Fortran.
[14:31] <xubuntu61w> Xbuntu is now adding VM guest additions.
[14:32] <jonzen> any1 have any idea how to install chromium on 19.10 without snap   cant stand snap   was nothing wrong with the old way
[14:32] <jonzen> ive tried to find a deb file but cant get any of them to install
[14:35] <jonzen> xubuntu since 2011   now i guess ill have to replace it like the old gnome when they made it all funky
[14:37] <xubuntu61w> I have in some cases seen the newer versions of the OS breaks things.
[14:37] <xubuntu61w> Like between Ubuntu 18.04 and 20.04
[14:39] <xubuntu61w> Like Debian 10 doing any development work is a real pain
[14:40] <xubuntu61w> Missing libraries and applications. Not straight forward like Ubuntu & Mint
[14:42] <xubuntu61w> I like Vim I have it under Linux and Windows...
[14:43] <xubuntu61w> It's nice to have concisity on different platforms.
[14:43] <brainwash> can we focus on your problem with xubuntu (if there is any)?
[14:55] <xubuntu61w> I have not forgotten. It's loading the aps now.
[15:11] <xubuntu61w> It's loading the developers aps now
[15:19] <xubuntu61w> OK this  Exec=/home/ken/bin/cal.sh  works on Xbuntu but not Lbuntu ??
[15:26] <xubuntu61w> I don't understand why one and not the other? Both based on Ubuntu.
[15:28] <brainwash> you would have to ask in the lubuntu channel
[15:29] <brainwash> it works in xubuntu, so there is not much we can help you with
[15:37] <xubuntu61w> On Lubuntu I need   Exec=mate-terminal -- /home/ken/bin/cal.sh
[15:37] <xubuntu61w> and that's where I get gofey results.
[15:42] <xubuntu61w> Actually doing guest adins on both requires:
[15:42] <xubuntu61w> If guest additions do not start automatically. Do the following assuming the folder did show up.References to {username} mean user you loged in with.Start a terminal session (right click on desktop and select open terminal) thencd /media/{username}ls -l  to see version.cd /media/{username}/VBox_GAs_6.1.0  (Or version displayed with ls)sudo
[15:42] <xubuntu61w> ./VBoxLinuxAdditions.run		Enter password for {username} when requestedIt should proceed compiling and wait for the press enter prompt. Takes some time...Reboot using  shutdown -r 0			# 0 means immediate rebootLog in and  open terminal session	thensudo adduser {username} vboxsfexit
[15:43] <xubuntu61w> bye
[16:52] <someone235> Hi, for a weird reason I can't pick the option "span monitors" in my panel preferences. Someone knows what could cause it?
[17:02] <Robert54> What is the most appropriate way to run a 32-bit application on a 64-bit Xubuntu?
[17:27] <tomreyn> Robert54: use a xubuntu release which still supports it, install any i386 libraries it dpeends on, run it.
[17:29] <Robert54> does "Xubuntu 19.10 amd64" support running i386 applications?
[17:29] <tomreyn> some. https://ubuntu.com/blog/statement-on-32-bit-i386-packages-for-ubuntu-19-10-and-20-04-lts
[17:30] <tomreyn> xubuntu builds on the same foundations as ubuntu, this means it can only provide i386 libraries available on default ubuntu (for the same release).
[17:32] <tomreyn> this blog post may require putting into context - originally the plan was to drop i386 support entirely starting 19.10.
[17:32] <Robert54> I've heard that
[17:36] <tomreyn> related: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2019-September/001265.html
[17:36] <Robert54> I'm trying to run FreeArc, and I've tried to install i386 libraries it depends on. Here is the output: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/sNjfFNYB2g/
[17:37] <Robert54> "apt-file -a i386 search libgmp.so.3" doesn't find any package :(
[17:38] <tomreyn> libgmp is not mentioned on the package list the above mailing list post links to
[17:39] <tomreyn> you can still install an older (x)ubuntu release in chroot / container or VM and use the software there.
[17:39] <Robert54> Is that the easiest way to solve it? or, perhaps, there are some other possible ways...?
[17:40] <Robert54> I've thought of running any Windows in VM and running FreeArc there... but using VMs is not convenient
[17:40] <tomreyn> https://sourceforge.net/projects/freearc/ states "Last Update: 2013-04-03", and the latest release seems to be https://sourceforge.net/projects/freearc/files/FreeArc/FreeArc%200.51/ from 2009. you should translate this as "do not use".
[17:41] <tomreyn> software which was last updated 10 years ago is most definitely full of security bugs.
[17:42] <tomreyn> i suggest you find an alternative software (or maybe someone forked freearc and still maintains it).
[17:42] <Robert54> the latest release (I'm trying to use) was on May 20, 2010, but that does not change the situation, as I suppose...
[17:43] <Robert54> oh, I can't accept the fact that this software works fine on Windows :(
[17:43] <Robert54> Thank you
[17:44] <tomreyn> the same security implications will apply to windows
[17:44] <tomreyn> (or, more likely, worse)
[17:47] <Robert54> I'm also trying to install Guitar Pro (released in 2016) which is 32-bit as well... here is the output: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/zcr5369Csy/
[17:49] <Robert54> What am I supposed to in this case? "apt-file -a i386 search libportaudio0" does not find anything, but "apt-file -a i386 search gksu" find lots of packages...
[17:49] <Robert54> supposed to do*
[17:52] <Robert54> oh, I'm sorry, I meant these commands: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/R6WNJJdZG7/
[17:54] <tomreyn> Robert54: by pointing you to the list of available i386 packages, i think i provided a way which should generally enable you to detemrine whether a i386 software can be run on ubuntu 19.10 and later.
[17:54] <tomreyn> you probably do not require gksu, though.
[17:54] <tomreyn> (use pkexec or sudo instead)
[17:55] <Robert54> I thought you had meant to say that some 32-bit software might work and some might not
[17:58] <tomreyn> Robert54: yes, that is correct
[17:58] <tomreyn> Robert54: sorry, i should have written "generically", not "generally".
[17:59] <tomreyn> i.e. you now have a means to tell for any given i386-only software (which you know the dpendencies of) whether it can run on 19.10 and later or not.
[18:00] <Robert54> Thank you so much! I wonder if it is possible to install required libs which are not listed on the package list. They've existed in old releases of Ubuntu's package lists I suppose
[18:01] <Robert54> Maybe I could install them myself, somehow... even if they don't work properly
[18:11] <tomreyn> mixing packages from diffierent distributions (or (x)ubuntu releases) is not supported here, and has a good potential of break apt.
[18:12] <Robert54> Okay, I'll keep it in mind
[21:22] <bea19> Hi does someone know Parcellite?


[06:33] <dholbach> good morning
[10:18] <czajkowski> dholbach: morning
[10:30] <dholbach> hey czajkowski! :)
[12:55] <czajkowski> highvoltage: how do
[12:56] <highvoltage> how do you do do you do... the things that you do
[12:57] <highvoltage> czajkowski: heh, it's going well thanks and you?
[12:58] <czajkowski> good thanks


[06:18] <marboy06> hey
[16:02] <raspi> test
[16:13] <pi_> ???
[16:13] <pi_> zheshismgui
[16:17] <pi_> ?
[18:13] <moldylog> Greetings. I'd like to dim/turn off my screen using the Fn key combo, but it just flickers off and goes back to 10%. If anyone could point me in the right direction I'd be really happy. Ubuntu 17.04 Mate 1.18.0
[22:36] <swift110> hey
[23:50] <swift110-2> hey


[05:23] <head_victim> sagaci: pong
[05:24] <sagaci> head_victim, ping
[05:24] <head_victim> What can I do for you
[05:26] <head_victim> I'm letting my mind simmer down before replying to the latest post to the forum :D
[07:35] <gorilla> Hi All, I'm trying to connect to icq using emapthy 2.30.3.. is anyone else having trouble?? if not, what's the server name that you have connected connected to?
[07:36] <head_victim> ICQ still exists? Cool!
[07:37] <gorilla> head_victim: don't ask why. I suggested that we implemnet an internal jabber server... that didn't go well :-/
[07:38] <head_victim> Bug 676060 ?
[07:38] <blahdeblah> gorilla: What would be wrong with an internal jabber server?  I run openfire for mine, and it pretty much rocks.
[07:39] <head_victim> gorilla: or a long link http://live.gnome.org/Empathy/FAQ#I_can.27t_connect_to_my_AIM.2BAC8-ICQ_account_anymore
[07:39] <gorilla> blahdeblah: just management doesn't want me or anyone else to sped time on it.
[07:39] <blahdeblah> To run up a Debian or Ubuntu VM with openfire would take about 1 hour.
[07:41] <gorilla> blahdeblah: that's the official reason.. personally I think it's more that management don't want to run another client on their machines.... I looove the politics in this place.
[07:55] <gorilla> Nope.. looks like I have a different issue.
[08:28] <blahdeblah> gorilla: That's understandable to a point: the more software you install, the more software you have to upgrade/configure/troubleshoot
[08:28] <blahdeblah> ICQ is pretty old school, though
[09:12] <gorilla> blahdeblah: yeah.. but interactions with software is a pain in general.
[14:07] <head_victim> sagaci: you never said what you wanted before
[14:07] <sagaci> I don't think I wanted anything
[14:07] <sagaci> can't remember why I pinged
[14:07] <head_victim> Fair enough, just thought I'd check :)
[14:09] <head_victim> You did well the other night at the meeting btw, allowed discussion but kept it on topic
[14:10] <sagaci> still went over time due to extra topics
[14:10] <head_victim> Yeah that will happen.
[14:10] <fabricator4> Evening everyone
[14:10] <head_victim> Gday fabricator4
[14:11] <head_victim> sagaci: one way around it could be to suggest that those topics that hadn't been brought up on the mailing list prior be rescheduled until the next meeting. Except I only thought of that just now.
[14:12] <sagaci> head_victim, ever thought about screencasting tutes/tips for youtube or similar
[14:12] <head_victim> Me? I don't think I'm good enough for that but if you were just talking about the idea it does sound useful.
[14:13] <sagaci> well it's how I learned and got enthused about linux/ubuntu
[14:14] <head_victim> Ah see I just blundered along with google by my side ;)
[14:14] <somethinginteres> thank goodness for Google. :)
[14:14] <sagaci> eww, text
[14:14] <fabricator4> +10 for Google
[14:15] <head_victim> I actually bought a book on linux system admin and that's how I'm teaching myself all about it
[14:15] <head_victim> Taking me too long to find time to dedicate to it though
[14:16] <head_victim> I could set up my server in an afternoon if I had to but the thing is I'm trying to learn "the correct way" to do things because I want this one to eventually be connected to the net so I want it secure as well.
[14:16] <fabricator4> Set up a server regardless, then learn by what you did wrong, THEN set it up the right way.
[14:17] <fabricator4> I don't know about anyone else, but I learn more from my mistakes than by reading a book.
[14:17] <head_victim> Oh I've set it up before as quick as I could and yeah it worked sort of.
[14:17] <sagaci> head_victim, which one
[14:17] <sagaci> i mean, what book
[14:18] <head_victim> I much rather working through a book, I make sure there are no holes in my knowledge that way.
[14:18] <head_victim> I recently found small gaps in my knowledge that I didn't even know existed by following proper documentation
[14:19] <head_victim> http://www.apress.com/9781430219125
[14:19] <fabricator4> Linux is like that.  The moment you start think you know something...
[14:19] <head_victim> The thing is I'm not in the IT field so a lot of "assumed" knowledge in my case is missing.
[14:20] <sagaci> head_victim, not the official ubuntu server book?
[14:20] <head_victim> I wanted something distro agnostic, just in case.
[14:20] <sagaci> ubuntu dies :o?
[14:21] <fabricator4> :-)
[14:21] <head_victim> Or I find myself on someone else's system that is *insert random distro here* and am not complete lost
[14:23] <head_victim> I just keep hoping one of these days an online university somewhere in Aus will put up some RHCE and Cisco stuff into a grad dip for me.
[14:25] <sagaci> i doubt it
[14:26] <head_victim> Heh the only catch my workplace has in educating people for free is that it has to be university level.
[14:26] <sagaci> there are unis that do majors in rhel but not the rhce specifically
[14:27] <head_victim> I can dream :D
[14:27] <sagaci> i wish canonical revamped their cert so it'd actually mean something
[14:30] <head_victim> Goddamnit.
[14:30] <head_victim> I just reinstalled my natty vm and updated to proposed and now trash is called trash again.
[14:32] <head_victim> Hmm the lines still appear correct in the unity package.
[14:34] <fabricator4> The joys of distributed development.  I haven't looked at the alpha yet...   any big differences?
[14:38] <head_victim> Hah I'm an idiot I don't think I set up the locale correct.
[14:38] <head_victim> To me that's a bit weird though, surely when it suggests your time and date in the installation it should set up the locale as well
[14:38] <fabricator4> Bug?
[14:39] <head_victim> I'd have to check to see if it's not already reported, discussed and rejected for some reason I hadn't thought ofyet
[15:28] <head_victim> I asked the question and was told "just because you live in a location doesn't mean you speak that language, also some locations have multiple languages so it generally uses the keyboard layout more than the location"
[15:28] <head_victim> Which is fair enough
[15:30] <fabricator4> Fair enough.  I think.  :-)
[15:30] <head_victim> Yeah, at least I got a response :D
[15:32] <fabricator4> I'm about to download the the alpha.  It's about time I had a look at it.
[15:34] <fabricator4> I just replied to the thread on the forum.  I felt it necessary to say something.  I'm not sticking my hand in a hornet's nest am I?  Probably...
[15:37] <head_victim> Yeah he's a pretty disruptive sort, he created a lot of tension in the team at the time of the last reapproval
[15:38] <head_victim> I'm not quite exactly sure how to deal with him but I've contacted the council about his behaviour so he doesn't derail the team's efforts.
[15:39] <head_victim> ANd I have to be awake in 4 hours so I'm going to head to bed I think.
[15:41] <fabricator4> sleep, what's that?  :-)
[15:41] <head_victim> Heh goodnight mate, have a good one if you're still here in 4 hours I'll see you then.
[15:42] <fabricator4> Goodnight!
[15:48] <somethinginteres> fabricator4: I've thought about installing the alpha in a VM (never used an alpha before) but I like surprise of using it for the first time on release and VMs to my knowledge use emulated hardware vs my actual hardware so I wouldn't be able to notice hardware regressions.
[15:49] <fabricator4> Yes, I normally install the alphas and betas in a separate partition.  This works OK but is not as convenient...
[15:50] <fabricator4> I've become a big fan of VirtualBox since installing it a few weeks ago.  I think I'll install it the alpha in VB this time around.
[15:52] <fabricator4> This box is having compatibility issues with new releases: the graphics cards just aren't up to it.  I'm not sure the VB emulation will work, seeing as how the video systems I have are deficient.  It will be interesting to find out.
[15:55] <fabricator4> The alphas can be quite exciting.  Broken, buggy, but fun.  The problem with running in a VM is that bug reporting wrt actual hardware is not possible.  At some point you have to run it on a real machine to get real world results for testing purposes.
[16:07] <somethinginteres> fabricator4: yeah


[00:52] <xubuntu216> hy
[00:53] <charlie-tca> !hi | Alexzander
[00:53] <Alexzander> charlie-tca.. tel me hot tu use Wine :|
[00:53] <charlie-tca> !wine
[00:54] <charlie-tca> Just click the link to the help wiki
[00:54] <charlie-tca> Those people in #winehq will know a lot more than I do, too
[00:54] <Alexzander> ok
[00:54] <Alexzander> thnx
[01:46] <Gooseheaded> Hello. Absolute newbie, heree.
[01:46] <Gooseheaded> I've been trying to install Xubuntu on another computer for half an hour now, and teh installation simply stalls.
[01:46] <Gooseheaded> I'm transitioning form Windows to Xubuntu. Is there anything specific I should do... ?
[01:47] <Gooseheaded> Yes, I've taken a look at the forums, but I can't seem to find a fit solution to my problem.
[01:52] <Gooseheaded> Is there a help channel or somethign similar I can go to... ?
[01:52] <Gooseheaded> something*
[02:49] <Gooseheaded> ...anyone around?
[02:56] <well_laid_lawn> it's quiet time in here mostly at this time of day...
[02:56] <well_laid_lawn> but ask away :]
[02:58] <Gooseheaded> Well
[02:58] <Gooseheaded> I've been trying to install Xubuntu on another computer for half an hour now, and the installation simply stalls.
[02:59] <Gooseheaded> I've looked around the forums, but I haven't found a solution yet.
[02:59] <well_laid_lawn> any errors mentioned at all?
[02:59] <Gooseheaded> Nope.
[02:59] <Gooseheaded> After the "7 stesp" (keyboard, location, username, etc)
[02:59] <Gooseheaded> It just shows me the xubuntu logo
[02:59] <Gooseheaded> And after a minute, I get a black screen.
[02:59] <Gooseheaded> :/
[03:00] <Gooseheaded> The computer has Windows XP, but I'm going to overwrite it.
[03:00] <well_laid_lawn> done the md5 check from the cd menu?
[03:00] <well_laid_lawn> bad cd burns do that sort of thing
[03:01] <Gooseheaded> Alright, I don't actually knwo hwo to do that.
[03:01] <Gooseheaded> I'm not an absolute newbie when it comes to software. I know 'how' to do stuff, but I don't knwo what.
[03:01] <Gooseheaded> So, how do I check that?
[03:01] <Gooseheaded> know*
[03:02] <Gooseheaded> Is it the "main menu option", "Check for disc errors" ?
[03:02] <Gooseheaded> (Sounds a bit obvious, but, I don't want to lose any more time)
[03:03] <well_laid_lawn> yep
[03:04] <Gooseheaded> Alright. Letting it run.
[03:04] <Gooseheaded> So why do -you- use xubuntu? I'm a "loyal" Windows user, just because I'm a gamer.
[03:04] <well_laid_lawn> I like how it looks and it is very configurable - I right click the desktop to open the menu
[03:06] <Gooseheaded> I'll have to admit, I've always loved the look of some unix-based OSs
[03:06] <Gooseheaded> especially Fedora. Fedora is gorgeous.
[03:06] <Gooseheaded> A bit too complex for me, though. :P
[03:07] <well_laid_lawn> fedora is pretty bloated
[03:08] <Gooseheaded> Ah, finally. "installing system" window. Sweet.
[03:08] <Gooseheaded> And, well, according to some ofm y friends, Fedora is really powerful
[03:08] <Gooseheaded> Hard to use, but very customizable.
[03:08] <Gooseheaded> I wouldn't know. :P
[03:09] <Gooseheaded> I'm just going to install xubuntu, install mysql, php, torrentflux, and what not...
[03:09] <Gooseheaded> Then leave the computer turned on for the rest of eternity, with no mouse, keyboard, or monitor
[03:10] <well_laid_lawn> xfce4 comes with it's own compositor for some eyecandy stuff :]
[03:10] <well_laid_lawn> o k
[03:18] <Gooseheaded> :]
[03:18] <Gooseheaded> There's an effect that, when you drag windows around, they look like jelly-ish. They wobble around. Any iddea of what that 'plugin' or 'effect' is called?
[03:19] <well_laid_lawn> that's compiz's wobbly windows - a seperate window manager
[03:19] <well_laid_lawn> it's easy enough to use
[03:19] <well_laid_lawn> !compiz
[03:20] <Gooseheaded> Ty. :D
[04:05] <Gooseheaded> Yay, installed.
[04:06] <Gooseheaded> I'll set up a render farm in a year
[04:06] <Gooseheaded> For now, I'll just use it as local network storage.
[04:06] <Gooseheaded> Thank you, mister well_laid_lawn.
[04:06] <Gooseheaded> :P
[04:06] <well_laid_lawn> :] np
[04:59] <xubuntu509> spanish?
[04:59] <Gooseheaded> ?
[05:07] <Mahmoud> how to turn LED on/off depending on keyboard toggled layout
[05:08] <Mahmoud> when I do alt_shift, and my input keyboard layout toggles to "fr", for example, I want to turn on the light of "mic mute" as I don't really use it
[05:08] <Gooseheaded> I'm a new guy, sorry, <:/
[05:09] <Gooseheaded> But, good luck with your issue
[05:09] <Gooseheaded> :]
[05:09] <Mahmoud> xubuntu/ubuntu has a stupid user community
[05:27] <nexus6__> does anybody here use jDownloader on xubuntu?
[08:03] <nikolam> nexus6__, I use tucan sometimes, it is very nice, also
[08:07] <Ileden> Hi! I'm encountering a REALLY weird problem on my Acer Aspire one netbook. My screen is all mangled up, it's like the pixels have gone on a party or something. It affects fonts (same characters are mangled up in a same way) and window decroations - but icons seem ok. Reboot fixes. Never happened before with Ubuntu, now happened twice with Xubuntu. Both times after somewhat "intense" use. Questions: 1) Is there a way to try to fix this without rebooting, and thus l
[08:08] <Sysi> cutted after: and thus l
[08:09] <Ileden> Questions: 1) Is there a way to try to fix this without rebooting, and thus losing all open windows. On gnome, I could do "metacity --replace" to fix some prolems, is there a similar thing for xfce? 2) What on earth is causing this weirdness? :D
[08:31] <francisco> hi
[08:32] <francisco> can someone help me? I replaced my Ubuntu to Xubuntu but I don't know how to mark some files for executable now, I don't have any option =/
[08:32] <Ileden> francisco: how did you do it in ubuntu?
[08:33] <Ileden> francisco: from terminal, it's always the same: chmod u+x <file>
[08:33] <francisco> Ileden: I pressed (propiedades), I'm spanish, like settings I think of that file, then I marked it as executable, but I don' have any mark now for executable >,< xD
[08:34] <francisco> oh kk
[08:34] <francisco> thank you Ileden =)
[08:53] <Ileden> Hi! I'm encountering a REALLY weird problem on my Acer Aspire one netbook. My screen is all mangled up, it's like the pixels have gone on a party or something. It affects fonts (same characters are mangled up in a same way) and window decroations - but icons seem ok. Reboot fixes. Never happened before with Ubuntu, now happened twice with Xubuntu. Both times after somewhat "intense" use.
[08:54] <Ileden> Questions: 1) Is there a way to try to fix this without rebooting, and thus losing all open windows. On gnome, I could do "metacity --replace" to fix some prolems, is there a similar thing for xfce? 2) What on earth is causing this weirdness? :D
[09:07] <well_laid_lawn> Ileden: I wonder if your vid caed is dying? - you can try xfwm --replace for xfce4
[09:07] <well_laid_lawn> s/caed/card
[09:07] <well_laid_lawn>  /
[09:07] <Sysi> in xubuntu that doesn't kill compiz
[09:08] <well_laid_lawn> didn't see compiz mentioned
[09:08] <well_laid_lawn> but won't that at least restart the wm?
[09:08] <Sysi> yup
[09:09] <well_laid_lawn> bbiab
[09:52] <Ileden> well_laid_lawn: it could be it's dying, but I doubt it, since symptoms appeared only after switching to xubuntu
[09:52] <Ileden> Sysi: no compiz in use
[09:54] <Ileden> s
[09:54] <Ileden> well_laid_lawn: xfwm4 --replace didn't help
[09:57] <well_laid_lawn> Ileden: is there a .xsession-errors file or similar?
[09:58] <Ileden> well_laid_lawn: yes
[09:59] <Ileden> well_laid_lawn: What should I look for there?
[10:00] <well_laid_lawn> Ileden: I have no idea - I've never encountered graphics playing up like that
[10:01] <Ileden> I'll try to get it into pastebin...
[10:01] <well_laid_lawn> Ileden: is there a new monitor - it might be refresh rates
[10:02] <Ileden> well_laid_lawn: Nope. Same attached lcd screen.
[10:02] <well_laid_lawn> k
[10:02] <Ileden> well_laid_lawn: and the problem only has appeared twice
[10:03] <well_laid_lawn> Ileden: that makes me think it's hardware - fan dying maybe..?
[10:06] <Ileden> well_laid_lawn: hmm, could be... I'll have to monitor the fan speeds
[10:06] <Ileden> well_laid_lawn: funny thing is, after the problem appears, it persists whether continuing "intense" use or not, until i reboot.
[10:07] <Ileden> well_laid_lawn: also, it wasn't *that* intense, that's why the quotes :)
[10:07] <well_laid_lawn> Ileden: the only way to see if it is that is to look :]
[10:08] <Ileden> here's .xsession-errors http://ubuntu.pastebin.org/450524
[10:12] <well_laid_lawn> k
[10:13] <well_laid_lawn> Ileden: from that vlc and thunar have minor issues
[10:14] <well_laid_lawn> but nothing else major
[10:15] <well_laid_lawn> !info sensors
[10:15] <well_laid_lawn> well
[10:16] <well_laid_lawn> !sensors
[10:16] <MagicSata> hey
[10:17] <MagicSata> is there a way to change from ubuntu to xubuntu and keep my /home without backing up?
[10:18] <Sysi> !xubuntu
[10:18] <MagicSata> !xubuntu-channels
[10:19] <MagicSata> is there a way to change from ubuntu to xubuntu and keep my /home without backing up?
[10:19] <Sysi> install package xubuntu-desktop
[10:20] <MagicSata> i installed xfce4 and select from start
[10:20] <MagicSata> do i do xubuntu-desktop as well?
[10:21] <Sysi> they should be same
[10:21] <MagicSata> ok
[13:20] <nexus6__> hi, i have a NAS (buffalo linkstation duo). how can i mount it on xubuntu?
[13:21] <psycho_oreos> how is it connected?
[13:22] <nexus6__> its plugged in into the w-lan router
[13:25] <psycho_oreos> hmm needs something that can mount cifs/smbfs, I don't know of the frontend tools for that but the type of filesystem I mentioned I think can help you
[15:24] <crazygir> hiya, so I'm upgrading my system and am at the dreaded update menu.lst step. I usually have problems with this if I don't pay attention and/or trust xubuntu too much, and then have to go fix the entries. The first thing I noticed in comparing the two versions is that the UUIDs are not the same for the old/new menu.lst entries
[15:24] <crazygir> thoughts?
[15:28] <TheSheep> crazygir: uuids change if you formatted the disks
[15:46] <crazygir> TheSheep: I haven't
[15:54] <crazygir> the updater is just wrong
[15:55] <crazygir> why is this?
[17:58] <nexus6__> xfce4-volumed needs 90% cpu... how comes?
[17:58] <nexus6__> 102% cpu... o0
[18:04] <nexus6__> hello?
[18:07] <charlie-tca> bug
[18:07] <charlie-tca> Not sure where it comes from, though
[18:09] <nexus6__> well i just "sudo apt-get remove xfce4-volumed"... but that no a clean solution :(
[18:09] <charlie-tca> bug 607474
[18:10] <charlie-tca> click the top line, Does this bug affect you?
[18:10] <nexus6__> top line?
[18:10] <charlie-tca> Just click the pencil in the circle next to that and mark it yes
[18:10] <charlie-tca> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/607474
[18:11] <charlie-tca> Well, not top line, I guess
[18:11] <charlie-tca> but above the "Affects   Status   Importance" line
[18:21] <nexus6__> i dont have a yes option there ...
[18:23] <charlie-tca> When you click the yellow circle next to the "does this bug affect you?" line?
[18:23] <charlie-tca> Then add a comment that the bug affects you also
[18:35] <nexus6__> it looks like i need to be registered
[18:39] <charlie-tca> Oh, yeah. You need to be registered. You need that anyway, so you can report bugs you find
[18:40] <nexus6__> hmm i suppose i will switch back to windows xp... i am not so satisfied with xubuntu
[18:40] <charlie-tca> I see
[18:41] <nexus6__> i need to think about it...
[18:41] <nexus6__> could it be that the xubuntu wlan driver make my wlan slow?
[18:44] <charlie-tca> Not that I know of. Could be that it is trying ipv6 though
[18:44] <nexus6__> some of my customer websites i am managing take incredible long for uploading files via the browser
[18:45] <nexus6__> or some rendering in firefox
[18:45] <nexus6__> could be a firefox issue though
[20:06] <datacrusher> im wondering in xubuntu wiki, but didnt found a nice guide about installing nvidia drivers on xubuntu, is it too different than ubuntu?
[20:17] <TheSheep> datacrusher: no, it's identical
[20:17] <TheSheep> datacrusher: go to system->hardware drivers
[20:28] <datacrusher> hm thanks
[20:38] <datacrusher> hmm actually i dont got nvidia graphics, check my lsusb and lspci - http://pastebin.com/rN6nyBma
[20:38] <datacrusher> is there a way to improve the driver?
[22:21] <maxwellian> Hi all, just upgraded to Xubuntu 10.04 and now I'm having trouble booting.
[22:24] <manbra> Are you ubootuing?
[22:24] <maxwellian> ubootuing...I don't know what that is, so I'd guess not?
[22:25] <manbra> Oh, I was kidding, sorry, I can't help : (
[22:25]  * manbra stumbles around linux just as much
[22:26] <Sysi> maxwellian: any more details?
[22:26] <maxwellian> Sysi: Sure, I just didn't want to flood this channel if no one was here. :)
[22:27] <maxwellian> I get to some kind of Xubuntu splash screen, and I'm given the option to "Continue to wait, press S to skip mounting, or M for manual recovery"
[22:27] <maxwellian> I think it's doing mountall at that time.
[22:28] <Sysi> how many partitions do you have?
[22:29] <maxwellian> But I've waited ten minutes and nothing happens.  If I press S (to skip mounting) it just goes to a blank screen.  If I press M (for manual recovery) it asks me to enter the root password (which doesn't exist).
[22:29] <maxwellian> Hmm, how do I figure out the partitions?
[22:29] <Sysi> do you have dualboot?
[22:29] <maxwellian> Sysi: Yes.
[22:30] <maxwellian> With Windows.
[22:30] <Sysi> hmm, you should maybe use livecd, if it's just fstab
[22:31] <maxwellian> What do you mean, if it's just fstab?  If fstab is the problem?
[22:33] <Sysi> if there aren't more broken things
[22:34] <maxwellian> What would I do with the LiveCD?  I know I can boot from it, but how will it help me fix the problem?
[22:34] <Sysi> mount your xubuntu-partition and fix fstab (where are mounted devices)
[22:35] <maxwellian> Sysi: How do I fix it?  I don't know what's wrong with it, if anything.
[22:35] <maxwellian> Can I pastebin my fstab?
[22:35] <Sysi> that's what i'm talking about
[22:38] <maxwellian> Sysi: http://paste.ubuntu.com/474249/
[22:38] <Sysi> maxwellian: from the broken xubuntu?
[22:39]  * maxwellian nods
[22:41] <maxwellian> I just realize that I didn't mention that I'm able to boot with the previous kernel.  That's how I'm here right now.
[22:41] <Sysi> so it isn't fstab
[22:41] <maxwellian> On the previous kernel I can press S (to skip mounting) and Xubuntu launches.
[22:41] <Sysi> hum, interesting
[22:42] <Sysi> could you pastebin 'sudo fdisk -l'
[22:43] <maxwellian> http://paste.ubuntu.com/474251/
[22:45] <maxwellian> When I use the previous kernel and press S (to skip mounting) it gives a couple of errors: "Mounting none on /dev failed; no such device"
[22:45] <maxwellian> And "chroot cannot execute /etc/apparmor/initramfs: No such file or directory"
[22:46] <Sysi> replace UUID=numbers with /dev/sdaX
[22:48] <charlie-tca> Sysi: what about replacing /dev/hda1 with sda1 on line 12?
[22:48] <charlie-tca> or does it matter?
[22:48] <Sysi> charlie-tca: i think it's not needed, at least for fixing xubuntu :P
[22:49] <maxwellian> That's my Windows partition.  I think it was sda1 at some point in the past, but I don't know for sure.
[22:49] <Sysi> charlie-tca: could it be something very other than fstab?
[22:49] <maxwellian> Sysi: How would I know which numbers to use for X in sdaX?
[22:50] <charlie-tca> I don't think so. The new kernels though care about what is in fstab. If LVM is used, UUID won't let it boot at all
[22:50] <Sysi> it's there on the abowe line
[22:50] <charlie-tca> I think you are on the right track, but I am learning too.
[22:51] <maxwellian> Not using LVM, for the record.
[22:51] <maxwellian> I'll try those renames in fstab.
[22:53] <maxwellian> Is there a known problem with using UIDs, or are we just trying this out?
[22:53] <maxwellian> UUIDs, rather.
[22:53] <charlie-tca> I sure would. Sysi knows these things better than me
[22:53] <Sysi> i've heard about uuids changing in update
[22:54] <maxwellian> It seems weird that the older kernel can figure it out though?
[22:55] <Sysi> that's why i'm not sure it's fstab
[22:55] <Sysi> IDK how uuids work
[22:57] <Sysi> but that change won't break anything
[23:01] <maxwellian> Is it a problem that the last line in my fstab doesn't actually seem to do anything?  I.e., /mnt/ntfs does not exist.
[23:02] <Sysi> does it boot to windows?
[23:03] <maxwellian> Yes.
[23:03] <maxwellian> Well, at least it came out of hibernation for Windows.
[23:04] <maxwellian> Windows had been hibernated, but I assume it would work if it weren't.
[23:05] <Sysi> folders can be created automatically
[23:06] <maxwellian> I understand that, but assuming that during boot the system tries to mount everything in my fstab, it seems that it didn't succeed.
[23:09] <Sysi> i also don't actually know how other broken entries affect others


[00:38] <h0mer__> hey guys, is this the right place to ask about maas openstack networking questions?
[14:58] <plars> are the APC PDUs supported for power control in the version of maas in trusty? Is there a way to get it to work with that, or should we really be running the version of maas in the stable ppa?
[14:59] <plars> The one that was installed by our lab folks is 1.5.4+bzr2294-0ubuntu1.3 and I don't see an option for APC, but locally I have 1.8.0+bzr4001-0ubuntu2~trusty1 and I see it as an option there
[15:08] <mup> Bug #1476718 opened: 1.8.1 Change table font size <ui> <MAAS:In Progress by ricgard> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1476718>
[15:14] <mup> Bug #1476718 changed: 1.8.1 Change table font size <ui> <MAAS:In Progress by ricgard> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1476718>
[15:17] <mup> Bug #1476718 opened: 1.8.1 Change table font size <ui> <MAAS:In Progress by ricgard> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1476718>
[15:17] <mup> Bug #1476719 opened: 1.8.1 ready machine shows OS as machine property <ui> <ux> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1476719>
[15:26] <mup> Bug #1476719 changed: 1.8.1 ready machine shows OS as machine property <ui> <ux> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1476719>
[15:30] <blake_r> plars: I believe that was added in 1.8
[15:30] <blake_r> plars: you can use the stable ppa to use 1.8, it is released just not in trsuty
[15:32] <plars> blake_r: right, I know it should work, just wondering if that's the recommended option for a production system
[15:32] <blake_r> plars: 1.8 is recommend
[15:32] <plars> blake_r: speaking of production maas, do you know if there's any documentation about recommended procedures for disaster recovery, backups, etc?
[15:33] <blake_r> plars: with the MAAS server?
[15:33] <blake_r> plars: everything in MAAS is stored in the database
[15:33] <blake_r> plars: so if you backup the database, and  /etc/maas you will be able to recover
[15:34] <blake_r> plars: you could even get away with backing up /etc/maas, but I would recommend it just in case
[15:34] <blake_r> plars: no direct documentation as of this time
[15:38] <mup> Bug #1476719 opened: 1.8.1 ready machine shows OS as machine property <ui> <ux> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1476719>
[16:20] <mup> Bug #1476746 opened: 1.8.1 Release dropdown shows (duplicate) OS <ui> <ux> <MAAS:New> <MAAS 1.8:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1476746>
[16:32] <mup> Bug #1476746 changed: 1.8.1 Release dropdown shows (duplicate) OS <ui> <ux> <MAAS:New> <MAAS 1.8:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1476746>
[16:38] <mup> Bug #1476746 opened: 1.8.1 Release dropdown shows (duplicate) OS <ui> <ux> <MAAS:New> <MAAS 1.8:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1476746>
[20:58] <mad4comp> hey guys is the right place to ask about maas/landscape/openstack questions?


[05:10] <lindol> hi all.
[05:11] <lindol> Deos Ubuntu GNOME 16.04 include wayland by default?
[12:01] <lindol> hi all
[12:38] <lindol> Could you modify wiki page now??
[12:53] <lindol> Even if I signed-in wiki page, But, I can not modify wiki page..
[14:08] <imuzaffar> hi
[14:08] <imuzaffar> please anybody help
[14:17] <JockeTF> Hmm? Call 911!
[20:03] <Slown> Hello
[20:04] <Slown> everyone there ?
[20:04] <Slown> I need your advices


[15:56] <DenkBrettl> hi all
[15:56] <Nairwolf> hi ;
[15:56] <DenkBrettl> I'm trying to install 15.04 with the alternate install cd and there seems to be an issue with dependencies around libmirclient8
[15:56] <DenkBrettl> is this a known bug and if so is there a workaround?
[15:57] <Nairwolf> sorry, I can't help you (I thought it was #lubuntu-offtopic)
[21:19] <miheerdew> My display has been offset. You can see a grey background there. Windows only expand as much as the desktop background
[21:19] <miheerdew> http://postimg.org/image/dhqpdnv6r/
[21:20] <miheerdew> The margins in ~/.config/openbox/lubuntu-rc.xml are already 0
[21:34] <miheerdew> ^^ Any help?