[05:48] <Kilos> guten morgen
[06:26] <Kilos> hi Xethron
[07:03] <Symmetria> sup
[07:03] <Symmetria> interesting, first time in my life I've actually flashed a bios to fix a problem and it fixed it
[07:09] <Kilos> wow
[07:09] <Kilos> yeah it works kiff
[07:09] <Kilos> newer mobos come with the option in bios even
[07:10] <Kilos> on older pcs you need to download and make a bootable stiffy with the new bios
[07:10] <Kilos> hi ThatGraemeGuy rynomster
[07:19] <Symmetria> heh my pc now has so much crap in it it wont start without a thousand watt PSU ;p
[07:19] <Kilos> wow
[07:19] <Symmetria> lol, its the video cards that suck power
[07:19] <Kilos> do like me and put another psu outside
[07:20] <Symmetria> heh I prefer not to run internal cards on a seperate PSU
[07:20] <Kilos> reason?
[07:20] <Kilos> just looks ugly imo
[07:22] <Symmetria> well the last thing you want is to lose power on a PSU that is driving a PCI card while the other PSU keeps running
[07:22] <Symmetria> shit will get really screwed up if that happens :)
[07:26] <Kilos> then why you overloading that pc so.
[07:26] <Kilos> mobo gonna crash soon
[07:27] <Kilos> rahter use a server bay
[07:27] <Kilos> rather
[07:40] <Kilos> hi Vince-0
[07:42] <Vince-0> !
[07:42] <Vince-0> Kilos, ever vigilant
[07:42] <Vince-0> or is it lurking
[07:43] <Kilos> im the greeter bot
[07:43] <Kilos> did you read what was said at last nights meet
[07:44] <Kilos> dbnlug has some stuff to share
[07:45] <Vince-0> ya there's always talk
[07:45] <Symmetria> heh I need to start trying to mine bitcoins
[07:46] <Symmetria> now that I got sufficient offload gpu capacity
[07:46] <Vince-0> eventually the electricity bill isn't worth the return
[07:48] <Symmetria> lol I dont actually wanna put a power meter on my machine
[07:48] <Symmetria> I fear to think how much its drawing with those video cards in it
[08:07] <Kilos> hi aquarat
[08:30] <charl> good morning
[08:30] <charl> Maaz: coffee on
[08:30]  * Maaz flips the salt-timer
[08:34] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for charl!
[08:35] <charl> Maaz: thanks
[08:35] <Maaz> charl: No problem
[08:38] <Kilos> hi charl
[09:39] <Symmetria> heh this ethernet over power stuff is so awesome
[09:46] <charl> Symmetria: why?
[09:48] <Symmetria> charl heh, 500meg from one side of the house to the other
[09:48] <Symmetria> by plugging in 2 wall sockets
[09:48] <Symmetria> saves a lot of effort, time and money in cabling
[09:49] <Symmetria> heh, power over ethernet is something we've all become used to, ethernet over power though is something I'd heard of, but never had a chance to test
[09:49] <Symmetria> now that I have tested it, I love it :P
[09:49] <Symmetria> anyone know if any of the ubuntu live cds have built in nvidia drivers in them?
[09:50] <Symmetria> cause I really wanna see if linux can handle this setup now that Ive changed it slightly, cause it sure as hell didnt like the old setup
[09:55] <ThatGraemeGuy> Kilos: sorry, morning
[09:55] <ThatGraemeGuy> and everyone else
[09:56] <ThatGraemeGuy> and bye bye! closing up shop early
[09:56] <Kilos> np
[09:56] <ThatGraemeGuy> enjoy xmas / day off / whatever it means to each of you :-)
[09:57] <Symmetria> ugh no one seems to know if there is an ubuntu live cd with nvidia drivers :(
[09:57] <Kilos> ty same there
[10:26] <charl> Symmetria: i don't have any nvidia cards, i always go for intel hd, so i wouldn't know either
[10:27] <charl> Symmetria: friends of mine use ethernet over power in their house, they also use IPTV (FTTH)
[10:28] <charl> Symmetria: when somebody plugs in a charger that creates interference, the tv starts picking up problems
[10:29] <charl> the video feed starts hanging every few seconds
[10:35] <Kilos> nouveau drivers work some
[10:36] <Kilos> but to get the card going well you need the correct driver
[10:37] <Kilos> also there is nvidia-current in the repos
[10:37] <Kilos> i think it was current
[10:37] <Symmetria> will get a live cd and play
[10:38] <Kilos> yeah its nvidia-current
[10:38] <Symmetria> hrm, can I just apt-get install that on a live cd, suppose I should be able to
[10:38] <Kilos> yes
[10:39] <Kilos> you can also install the driver for the card from the live cd but you lose it when you remove the cd and reboot
[10:39] <Kilos> what ubuntu you wanna try Symmetria
[10:40] <Kilos> the newer ones are dvd size 1.1g
[10:41] <Kilos> what is ethernet over power?
[10:41] <Symmetria> I'll go download one and stick it on a bootable usb stick or something so whatever size
[10:41] <Kilos> ya thats fine. go with 13.10
[10:42] <Symmetria> kilos heh, there are these nifty adapters you plug into the wall, and you plug an ethernet cable into them, then you plug a corresponding unit into another wall and it uses the house power grid as if it were virtual ethernet cables
[10:42] <Kilos> wow
[10:42] <Symmetria> so you can plug 2 adapters in on opposite sides of the house and have ethernet over power
[10:42] <Kilos> clever that. saves cabling
[10:43] <Kilos> speed. it must surely be slower than cat5 cabling
[10:43] <Symmetria> kilos about half a gigabit through the power at my house
[10:43] <Kilos> wow thats good
[12:28] <Kilos> hi SabreWolfy
[12:28] <Kilos> wb
[12:30] <SabreWolfy> Hiya.
[13:07] <charl> hi rynomster
[13:07] <charl> hi SabreWolfy
[13:27] <SabreWolfy> Hi
[13:28] <SabreWolfy> Hi charl
[14:49] <Kilos> Maaz, forecast pretoria
[14:49] <Maaz> Kilos: Monday: Partly Cloudy. High: 32° C., Monday Night: Partly Cloudy. Low: 19° C., Tuesday: Chance of a Thunderstorm. High: 28° C., Tuesday Night: Thunderstorm. Low: 18° C., Wednesday: Thunderstorm. High: 26° C., Wednesday Night: Mostly Cloudy. Low: 17° C., Thursday: Chance of a Thunderstorm. High: 28° C., Thursday Night: Chance of a Thunderstorm. Low:
[14:49] <Maaz> 18° C., Friday: Chance of a Thunderstorm. High: 28° C., Friday Night: Chance of a Thunde…
[14:51] <Kilos> charl, can you go see this and tell me the size after?
[14:51] <Kilos> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tMMRUWF7nA
[14:52] <Kilos> something about usb booting old pcs
[14:52] <SabreWolfy> Maaz, forecast rustenberg
[14:52] <Maaz> SabreWolfy: City not found
[14:53] <SabreWolfy> Maaz, forecast rustenburg
[14:53] <Maaz> SabreWolfy: Monday: Partly Cloudy. High: 30° C., Monday Night: Partly Cloudy. Low: 19° C., Tuesday: Chance of a Thunderstorm. High: 28° C., Tuesday Night: Thunderstorm. Low: 19° C., Wednesday: Thunderstorm. High: 24° C., Wednesday Night: Partly Cloudy. Low: 16° C., Thursday: Chance of a Thunderstorm. High: 28° C., Thursday Night: Chance of a Thunderstorm.
[14:53] <Maaz> Low: 17° C., Friday: Chance of a Thunderstorm. High: 27° C., Friday Night: Chance of a T…
[14:54] <Kilos> who's  in rustenburg SabreWolfy ?
[14:54] <Kilos> my son is there
[14:56] <Kilos> and what reminded you yesterday to come on here again?
[14:56] <Kilos> i forgot to ask eyesonly too
[14:57] <SabreWolfy> Kilos
[14:57] <SabreWolfy> Kilos: I'm near Rustenburg and the Twitter feed reminded me
[14:58] <SabreWolfy> What about eyesonly?  And then I got that three year old message!
[14:59] <SabreWolfy> Oh.  That was me :-)
[15:00] <Kilos> ai! i was on kde last night
[15:00] <Kilos> haha
[15:00] <Kilos> near rustenburg where?
[15:02] <Kilos> but eyesonly also was missing for a long time. so at least the tweet place works at times
[15:03] <Kilos> had to do a choqok install to be able to tweet
[15:12] <SabreWolfy> Kilos:
[15:12] <Kilos> ya?
[15:12] <SabreWolfy> Kilos: sorry learning this AndChat client. You send out the Tweets?
[15:13] <Kilos> yes
[15:13] <Kilos> which one do you follow?
[15:13] <Kilos> ubuntuza and sharpeys
[15:13] <Kilos> i dont tweet much
[15:14] <Kilos> supposed to be inetpro 's job but he is getting old
[15:14] <SabreWolfy> I follow the one for this channel
[15:14] <Kilos> cool
[15:15] <Kilos> you using andchat from a cell hey?
[15:15] <Kilos> you okes and your modern toys
[15:17] <SabreWolfy> Haha! Yeah on my S3.
[16:44] <SabreWolfy> What did eyesonly mention re the new item on the next agenda?
[17:18] <Kilos> SabreWolfy, lemme reboot to kde and scroll back
[17:18] <Kilos> i forget who said what
[17:18] <SabreWolfy> Oh ok. No worries.
[17:19] <SabreWolfy> It will be in the online log anyway. I'll look there.
[17:19] <Kilos> not a prob. whole day of unity, kde can be like pudding after a good meal
[17:24]  * Kilos scrolls back
[17:25] <Kilos> aw i havent set konversation to keep lotsa logs
[17:29] <Kilos> no superfly all day. sigh
[17:29] <Kilos> hi psychicist
[17:30] <Kilos> and Private_User also as well tooo
[17:37] <theblazehen> Hi. Am I late?
[17:37] <Private_User> hi Kilos
[17:37] <Kilos> hi theblazehen late for what?
[17:38] <theblazehen> early* || the monthly meet || hey Private_User
[17:38] <Kilos> for last nights meeting hahaha
[17:38] <theblazehen> Oh
[17:38] <theblazehen> oh ok
[17:38] <Kilos> you are a bit late
[17:38] <Kilos> rofl
[17:38] <theblazehen> lol, saw tuesday in title, almost thought early...
[17:38] <Private_User> hi theblazehen
[17:38] <theblazehen> :(
[17:38] <Kilos> t6hats for next meet
[17:39] <theblazehen> yeah, I see now
[17:39] <theblazehen> oh it's tuesday today...
[17:39] <Kilos> mondays became hard for some of our favourite favourites so we changed it last night to tues the 4th week of each month
[17:40] <theblazehen> ah ok :)
[17:40] <Kilos> but you can read the logs and see what you missed
[17:40] <Kilos> some new stuff coming up at next meet
[17:42] <theblazehen> ah nice :)
[17:42] <theblazehen> Stuff like?
[17:45] <Kilos> whew SabreWolfy did you read logs about what eyesonly said
[17:45] <Kilos> they were chatting about mobiles i think
[17:46] <SabreWolfy> Kilos: going to... standby
[17:46] <Kilos> ty
[17:49] <SabreWolfy> Kilos: irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/12/23/%23ubuntu-za.html
[17:49] <SabreWolfy> Times are GMT
[17:49] <Kilos> ty
[17:50] <Kilos> i can never find logs
[17:51] <SabreWolfy> Kilos: see 19:32 in that log
[17:51] <Kilos> but at least i dont get lost for 3 years and 17 days
[17:51] <Kilos> hehe
[17:52] <theblazehen> ty
[17:52] <SabreWolfy> :-)
[17:54] <Kilos> i  <3 #ubuntu-za. my home from home
[17:55] <Kilos> this channel and its peeps pulled me outa the format reinstall rut with win
[17:55] <Kilos> ne inetpro
[17:56] <Kilos> oh my i see now logs show in the topic bar
[18:08] <theblazehen> Any of you run a solarized colour scheme?
[18:14] <Kilos> what is that theblazehen ?
[18:15] <SabreWolfy> theblazehen: yeah in emacs
[18:15] <Kilos> hi Vince-0 !
[18:15] <theblazehen> Colour scheme which was designed to be easy to look at or something.  I use it EVERYWHERE!
[18:16] <theblazehen> Kilos, ethanschoonover.com/solarized
[18:17] <theblazehen> brb
[18:20] <charl> hi all
[18:20] <charl> hi theblazehen
[18:20] <charl> Kilos: what's that about?
[18:20] <theblazehen> hey ChanServ
[18:20] <charl> lol
[18:20] <Kilos> what charl ?
[18:20] <theblazehen> charl*
[18:20] <theblazehen> lol
[18:20] <Kilos> im on another drive
[18:20] <charl> you asked me a question earlier
[18:20] <charl> something about a size with a youtube video
[18:21] <Kilos> what question
[18:21] <charl> 15:51 < Kilos> charl, can you go see this and tell me the size after?
[18:21] <Kilos> ok that link is a video about booting usb ubuntu on old pcs
[18:22] <Kilos> remember old pcs didnt have usb boot option
[18:22] <Kilos> i dunno what the vid shows
[18:22] <theblazehen> Kilos, did you try plop?
[18:22] <Kilos> ya
[18:22] <charl> it's a 27 min twit video
[18:22] <charl> from a little more than a year ago
[18:22] <Kilos> i got plop here somewhere
[18:23] <charl> "Know How... 5: Resurrect an old PC with Linux "
[18:23] <Kilos> twit video ?
[18:23] <charl> http://twit.tv/
[18:23] <Kilos> oh ty. i was mailed the link
[18:24] <charl> they said something about unetbootin
[18:25] <Kilos> ya but thats no good if the pc dont boot from usb
[18:25] <Kilos> anyway i know how to put linux on old pc
[18:25] <Kilos> had tinycorelinux on p3
[18:25] <theblazehen> http://imgur.com/FreDVYm screenshot :)
[18:26] <Kilos> eek black screen
[18:27] <charl> ooh that's ugly
[18:27] <charl> those colours
[18:28] <charl> what window manager is that
[18:28] <charl> looks like tiling
[18:29] <SabreWolfy> theblazehen: yeah solarized is awesome. Yeah, which WM you on?
[18:42] <superfly> theblazehen: I use KDE with Oxygen and the Obsidian Coast theme, it's nicer than the Solarized colour scheme
[19:27] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[19:38] <theblazehen> charl, yep, tilng :D awesomewm
[19:38] <theblazehen> I thought it looked good :(
[19:39] <theblazehen> superfly, nice
[20:03] <charl> ah, awesome
[20:03] <charl> i use i3
[20:11] <theblazehen> charl, tried it a bit, never got into it. Would you recommend it?
[20:14] <charl> well, i use it :) but i guess it depends on what you're looking for
[20:16] <theblazehen> I hear it supports splitting panes, like in tmux? Have you used that feature?
[20:21] <charl> it has powerful window layout options but i'm not familiar with splitting of panes
[20:21] <theblazehen> ah, kk, ty


[03:03] <jjesse>      evening
[03:27] <nixternal> evening
[03:30] <ScottK> Good evening.  How's morale?
[03:30] <jjesse> great here, how is yours?
[03:31] <ScottK> Moderate.
[03:38] <nixternal> mine is getting better each minute as soon as these silly microsoft courses complete
[08:08] <manchicken> I'm going to have to learn to package so that I can package some of these kate plugins.
[08:08] <Hobbsee> hiya manchicken
[08:08] <manchicken> howdy :)
[08:08] <manchicken> It's way past my bedtime.
[08:09] <manchicken> But I'm so excited about the Dell I just picked out, I don't know if I'll be able to sleep or not.
[08:09] <manchicken> But crap, it's 0109...
[08:09] <manchicken> I'd better.
[08:09] <Hobbsee> heh
[08:09] <manchicken> I've got a meeting at 1000 that I have to make.
[08:09] <manchicken> Nighty night :)
[08:09] <Hobbsee> night!
[08:09] <manchicken> Don't let the pointy stick bite.
[08:10] <Hobbsee> heh
[08:33] <Hobbsee> nixternal: when are you planning to test cds?
[10:17] <Hobbsee> kubuntu i386 desktop seems fine
[11:00] <_StefanS_> hello
[11:05] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: hey ;)
[11:05] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: hey there
[11:05] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: I'm just downloading kdelibs now to test out that stuff
[11:06] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: had a busy day yesterday
[11:06] <_StefanS_> hey manchicken_
[11:42] <doc__> hi there
[11:46] <Riddell> kwwii: did you have a hand in any of this? http://www.linuxdevices.com/files/misc/intel_mobiln_i_screen01.gif
[12:30] <_StefanS_>  Tonio_: it seems to compile now without interfering with the current kdelibs/kdeui stuff (i.e. no patch needed for kabapi.cc .. )
[12:30] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: so thats good news.
[12:33] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: super :)
[12:33] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: sent me the patch if you want tests to be performed
[12:34] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: yep its really cool, so when this works: 1) update kdesudo bzr code 2) compare fade code / method with logout to have it working on YOUR machine ;)
[12:34] <xerosis> how can i package changes to code from apt-get source?
[12:34] <_StefanS_> xerosis: like official changes?
[12:35] <_StefanS_> xerosis: in that case you need to make a debdiff, or regular diff and submit them to Tonio_, Riddell, or Hobbsee
[12:35] <_StefanS_> thats what I do ;D
[12:35] <xerosis> _StefanS_: unofficial
[12:35] <_StefanS_> xerosis: just change the code and issue a sudo debuild -nc
[12:35] <_StefanS_> xerosis: it will then create debs in parent dir
[12:35] <xerosis> _StefanS_: thanks
[12:36] <_StefanS_> xerosis: cant remember if you need to apply patches first (sudo make -f debian/rules apply-patches)
[12:36] <_StefanS_> xerosis: actually I think debuild does that also..
[12:36] <xerosis> _StefanS_: okay, will try
[12:37] <_StefanS_> xerosis: there's also a more formal (debian) way to do it .. but cant really remember the details. debuild works for me :D
[12:38] <xerosis> _StefanS_: it's only to try a patch works before submitting so that'll do for me :)
[12:38] <_StefanS_> mkay :D
[12:51] <kwwii> Riddell: yes, I have been working on this
[12:52] <kwwii> Riddell: there are other pics I made on that website
[12:53] <Riddell> thought I saw your hand in them :)
[01:08] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: my problem is probably more generic
[01:08] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: linked to hardware, but I'm pretty sure there is a way to reproduce
[01:08] <Tonio_> Riddell: this WE I'll fix a very very old bug
[01:08] <Tonio_> Riddell: kcontrol/region that doesn't read the ENV
[01:08] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll fix this one
[01:08] <Hobbsee> hi Tonio_
[01:08] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: hey Hobbsee
[01:09] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: I'm sure we can fix it
[01:09] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: not that easy in fact, the point is that the default locale is hardcoded
[01:09] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: ehh default locale ? :)
[01:09] <Tonio_> we need to make it read tne value defined in /etc/default/locale
[01:09] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: what are you talking about ?
[01:10] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: go in systemsettings, region
[01:10] <Riddell> Tonio_: what will it do with the environment settings?
[01:10] <Tonio_> you can set the kde system lang here, then click on default
[01:10] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: so should kdesudo react to that, is it what you mean?
[01:10] <Tonio_> Riddell: the point is that kde isn't fully french on a default install for example, unless you set the systemsettings value to be french
[01:11] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: nothing to do with kdesudo :)
[01:11] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: ah ok.. you got me confused
[01:11] <Hobbsee> erm...who broke kmilo?
[01:11] <Tonio_> Riddell: that causes a few issues you can't see due to english computer :)
[01:11] <Tonio_> Riddell: for example a few context menus aren't translated etc....
[01:11] <Hobbsee> or at least, the mute one
[01:12] <Tonio_> Riddell: we have 2 fixes to do for this : kcontrol should use the default locale when clicking on default
[01:12] <Tonio_> Riddell: and also the default lang should be set correctly on initial login
[01:13] <_StefanS_> uhm did someone else notice administrative mode dont work for the login manager?
[01:14] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: are you using kdesudo ?
[01:14] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: currently kdesudo replaces kdesu and doesn't work in kcontrol :) that may explain
[01:14] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: donno.. nothing launches
[01:14] <_StefanS_> ah ok
[01:14] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: look if /usr/bin/kdesu points to kdesudo
[01:14] <Tonio_> mhb: ping ? ;)
[01:14] <_StefanS_> ok
[01:14] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: that's what mhb will do before we can release the tarball
[01:15] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: that's the purpose of the nonewdcop command line feature
[01:18] <Tonio_> 10$ to the one who can tell me how to set the default police size for qt4
[01:18] <Tonio_> no way to find that one
[01:19] <Hobbsee> police size?
[01:22] <mhb> 10$ ?
[01:26] <kwwii> 10$ american or canadian?
[01:27] <kwwii> :p
[01:27] <Hobbsee> or australian
[01:27] <Hobbsee> as long as it's not 10 yen or something
[01:31] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: fonts size by default sorry
[01:31] <Tonio_> police is the french work for fonts
[01:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: shouldn't we discuss the media:/ -> /media patch ?
[01:32] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[01:32] <Riddell> Tonio_: I asked sime and he shrugged a bit and wandered off
[01:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: it seems to me that lots of people agree it wouldn't be wrong removing this one
[01:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum, well I can understand him
[01:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: did you tell him the idea was from me ? :)
[01:32] <Tonio_> Riddell: if yes he might hate me now
[01:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: there is a part of the simplication I wanna keep
[01:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: just use media:/ by default
[01:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: it is not a matter of removing all the work he has done
[01:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: another bug I found is just boot with a cd in
[01:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: sometimes the desktop icon is good, sometimes it just appears as a folder, means you cannot umount it
[01:42] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: the compile went fine, I will prepare a patch soon
[01:46] <Riddell> desktop icon?
[01:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: desktop entry for the cdrom
[01:47] <Riddell> I've not seen that
[01:47] <Riddell> however, I'm not against removing the patches
[01:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: I saw that 2 minutes ago
[01:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: I propose to discuss this once and for all in the next meeting
[01:49] <Riddell> Tonio_: what would have changed compared to the last meeting?
[01:49] <Tonio_> I don't think so and most of the people agreed on my proposal, so....
[01:50] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: you really have to get the info out ot everyone first, so they can think on it - and make sure that they do
[01:50] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: what they do ?
[01:50] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: read on it and think on it
[01:52] <mhb> Tonio_: where can I read that?
[01:53] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: well that's not a super major change, bt of course that means the old issues will be back
[01:53] <Hobbsee> true
[01:53] <Tonio_> as for example gimp openiing a file on a usb key :)
[01:53] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: but on that point, there is documentation ovedr the web
[01:54] <Tonio_> that's a known problem the user can search for a solution
[01:54] <Hobbsee> true
[01:54] <Tonio_> which is not true with the issues created by the patches
[01:54] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: btw we can invite the user to use krita :)
[01:54] <Hobbsee> besides, my brain's deaded now, so...
[01:54] <Riddell> Hobbsee: you didn't commit kdebase ubuntu10 to bzr
[01:54] <Riddell> (I've done it now)
[01:54] <Hobbsee> sounds good.  now, if only i could figure out how krita works...
[01:55] <Hobbsee> Riddell: bugger.  could have sworn i tried to
[01:55] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: did you see the screenshot I did with media:/ compared to /media ?
[01:55] <Riddell> yes, your changelog suggests you did
[01:55] <Hobbsee> apologies
[01:55] <Tonio_> that the best evidence of the problem :)
[01:55] <Riddell> also we reached 99 in kdebase patch numbers
[01:55] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: dont think so.
[01:55] <Riddell> for now I've gone on to 9901
[01:55] <Hobbsee> yeah, that scares me
[01:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: there are holes in the list
[01:56] <Tonio_> how many patches do we really have ?
[01:56] <Tonio_> 70 maybe ?
[01:56] <Hobbsee> how many of those are pre kde 3.5, and how many should actually be there?
[01:56] <Riddell> Tonio_: sure, but we don't want to just start filling in the missing numbers, they have to be applied in order
[01:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: 62 patches here
[01:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: then we have to rename them from 01 to 62
[01:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: I can do that if you are interested
[01:57] <Riddell> Tonio_: ug no, that looses history
[01:58] <Riddell> "what does patch kubntu_62 do".. goes to search changelog for kubntu_62, hmm, nothing there
[01:58] <Hobbsee> hmm, kubuntu stuff still needs testing
[01:58] <Hobbsee> !i386 desktop
[01:58] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about i386 desktop - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[01:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: bah we have to detail the renaming in the changelog :)
[01:58] <Hobbsee> er, !i386 desktop
[01:58] <mhb> Tonio_: where is your proposal described?
[01:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: no bt I must say you are right on that point
[01:58] <Tonio_> mhb: proposal described ?
[01:58] <Tonio_> mhb: ho I don't have the file anymore
[01:59] <Riddell> Hobbsee: i386 desktop looks tested to me https://isotesting.stgraber.org/isotesting/test/504
[01:59] <Tonio_> mhb: we can discuss that toonight if you want, I'd appreciate your feedback
[01:59] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yes, as != is not equal to
[01:59] <Tonio_> mhb: a bit long to fully describe here
[01:59] <mhb> Tonio_: I thought you had it written in a mail or such
[02:00] <mhb> Tonio_: or an info webpage could be handy
[02:00] <Tonio_> mhb: I wrote an html file but that was long time ago
[02:00] <Riddell> Hobbsee: ah
[02:00] <Tonio_> mhb: I'll search in the meeting minutes, that's probably in there
[02:00] <Tonio_> mhb: btw, I know you will hate me for this (appologies), but any news concerning kdesudo ? no problem if none, that's just for my information
[02:01] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: the patch is headed your way. Will update kdesudo soon.
[02:01] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: or atleasy try to fix the problem...
[02:02] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: great, did you send that to me by email ?
[02:02] <_StefanS_> yup
[02:03] <Tonio_> s/his/is
[02:03] <Riddell> Tonio_: mhb is lovely and cute.  he wouldn't hate anyone
[02:05] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: the kdesudo works in my end (with the new api changes) ofcourse it still has the fade problems, but atleast we're not confusing other kde apps
[02:06] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: change the order of the parameters on line 45: 	: KPasswordDialog(WType_Popup, KPasswordDialog::Password, false, (withIgnoreButton ? User1: false), icon, parent, name)
[02:06] <_StefanS_> and sorry for pasting it in the channel.
[02:06] <mhb> eh, sorry for being away for a minute
[02:06] <Riddell> change the order?  that's an API break
[02:07] <_StefanS_> Riddell: hey its a new function its referring to. Dont worry.
[02:07] <_StefanS_> Riddell: the old one is still there.
[02:07] <Riddell> can't you just subclass KPasswordDialog rather than playing with kdelibs?
[02:08] <mhb> Tonio_: on the contrary, I guess you have to hate me for not being able to fix it
[02:08] <_StefanS_> Riddell: nope.. KDialogBase doesn't have support for setting WType_Popup anywhere, which makes the stuff we want to do kdesudo impossible.
[02:09] <Riddell> _StefanS_: but something in qt must?
[02:09] <Riddell> do you create a new class which implements KPasswordDialog and set WType_Popup in the constructor
[02:09] <Riddell> s/do/so/
[02:09] <_StefanS_> Riddell: yes, Qdialog does. But then we'll have to duplicate everything that KPasswordDialog can..
[02:09] <_StefanS_> Riddell: I created a new class, yes.
[02:12] <Tonio_> mhb: I will never hate someone for taking his time to do something as a benevolent :)
[02:12] <Tonio_> mhb: that's the basic concept of respect imho, so no I won't blame you :)
[02:12] <_StefanS_> gotta run. be back in 20mins.
[02:12] <Tonio_> mhb: I would rather blame me for not beeing able to do it myself
[02:13] <Tonio_> mhb: the point is that if you can't find the time to do it, we can ask for help too (riddell, manchicken, _StefanS_ etc...), no ? :)
[02:13] <jjesse> morning
[02:14] <mhb> Tonio_: I am sure, whoever has mastered dcop arts and C++ can take over it
[02:15] <Tonio_> arts ?
[02:15] <Tonio_> mhb: what's arts doing in the list ?
[02:15] <mhb> the arts of dcop
[02:15] <Riddell> _StefanS_: why would you have to duplicate everything, you just implement KPasswordDialog
[02:15] <RadiantFire> good morning mhb
[02:16] <mhb> good morning RadiantFire
[02:16] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: no need of a kdelibs patch in that case right ?
[02:16] <mhb> RadiantFire: we're just talking about the "dcop" thing we tried to solve the other day
[02:16] <mhb> RadiantFire: with kdesudo
[02:16] <RadiantFire> yeah, I saw some of it in the scrollback
[02:16] <Tonio_> hi RadiantFire :)
[02:16] <RadiantFire> hi
[02:17] <RadiantFire> i guess it was never solved then
[02:20] <mhb> RadiantFire: perhaps you could help me with it a bit
[02:20] <RadiantFire> sure
[02:20] <RadiantFire> i've got some time before work
[02:29] <_StefanS_> Riddell: maybe it can be done after all, I might totally wrong.. It seems like atleast KDialog supports wflags. I will look into it
[02:43] <jjesse> ?
[02:49] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: looked at your patch , are you sure this one won't corrupt amarok ?
[02:49] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: I'll make tests before commiting, if you don't mind ;)
[02:49] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: yep I'm pretty sure, but do test it. I heard no complaining from kabapi.cc this time
[02:50] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: oki :)
[02:50] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: well I'll test with amarok
[02:53] <_StefanS_> Riddell: did you find someone to help with that cache thingy for moodin ?
[02:54] <Riddell> _StefanS_: not yet
[02:55] <MidMark> hi, I'm having big visual bugs with today's qt 4.3 in feisty-backports with skype 1.4
[02:55] <MidMark> someone else?
[02:55] <_StefanS_> Riddell: maybe I can help after we get that kdesudo fixed.. btw; I just talked to a c++ friend of mine, and it seems like that its not very easy to subclass
[02:55] <_StefanS_> Riddell: (on kdesudo)
[02:56] <Riddell> MidMark: I seem to remember skype had issues with qt 4.3, what about other qt 4 apps?
[02:56] <_StefanS_> Riddell: I will have to throw in the towel on that one.. thats for sure.
[02:56] <MidMark> Riddell: well with previous 4.2.3 there was no problems, I'm also a linux betatester and here there is no idea why it's like this in ubuntu
[02:56] <MidMark> main devels has qt 4.3 too but none of this problems
[02:57] <MidMark> *skype for linux betatester
[02:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: katapult still autostarts
[02:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: as I told you, it has to be started in a session, like kmix, not to autostart, basically because only the session manager remember the app state (aka reduced in the tray) and will not display it
[02:57] <hunger> Tonio_: Same here.
[02:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: that's why I added the katapult session
[02:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: we have to add it back and patch katapult to remove the autostart
[02:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: want me to do it ?
[02:59] <Riddell> Tonio_: yes, please do
[02:59] <Tonio_> hunger: I said it yesterday before kds upload but nobody wants to listen to me :'(
[02:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: oki, will do that toonight, I'm at work right now
[03:00] <kwwii> is there anywhere in kde to set the screen brightness?
[03:00] <Tonio_> kwwii: the physical one ?
[03:00] <Tonio_> or the logical one ?
[03:00] <RadiantFire> there is a gamme control somewhere in display
[03:01] <Tonio_> I mean the one set via the acpi or the one set with your driver ?
[03:01] <kwwii> Tonio_: I just want my screen to not be so bright...touching the button the computer makes everything go black and then I have to reboot
[03:01] <MidMark> Riddell: do you want screenshots about the problem?
[03:01] <Tonio_> kwwii: you can set the second, not the first
[03:01] <Tonio_> kwwii: ah oki, for that you might be able to use systemsettings
[03:01] <Tonio_> go in display
[03:02] <kwwii> nothing to do with brightness there
[03:02] <Tonio_> kwwii: true that's only gamma, sorry for the bad info....
[03:02] <Riddell> MidMark: sure
[03:02] <Hobbsee> MidMark and anyone else: please test cds if you're bored.  (i386 alternate, amd64 alternate and desktop)
[03:02] <Tonio_> kwwii: what is your chipset ?
[03:02] <kwwii> intel
[03:02] <Riddell> MidMark: I'm out for 30 minutes now, if you have binaries someone can try testing on gutsy too
[03:03] <Tonio_> kwwii: I think with ATI the amdccle tool makes it possible to do it
[03:03] <kwwii> well, with gnome I can do it without a problem :-(
[03:04] <Tonio_> kwwii: ah :/
[03:04] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: I'm off now.. be back in the evening to hear about the reports on kdelibs<->amarok.. I will look at fixing that fade also.. gotta sleep some.
[03:05] <kwwii> oh well, me starts gnome
[03:06] <MidMark> someone that want to try skype 1.4 beta on gutsy?
[03:06] <MidMark> http://www.skype.com/go/getskype-linux-ubuntu
[03:07] <MidMark> and tell me if systray icon is ok
[03:54] <MidMark> Hobbsee: I can test cd tomorrow night or on we on my virtualbox if can be helpful
[03:54] <Hobbsee> how many hours is tomorrow night?
[03:54] <Hobbsee> er, hours away
[03:54] <MidMark> lol :)
[03:55] <MidMark> you are right, I'm in GMT+1
[03:55] <Hobbsee> i'd hope to see it released by then
[03:55] <MidMark> ops sorry
[04:10] <MidMark> ok I discovered the problem
[04:10] <MidMark> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=430907
[04:10] <ubotu> Debian bug 430907 in libqt4-gui "libqt4-gui: Artifacts in system tray icons" [Normal,Fixed]
[04:10] <MidMark> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=431436
[04:10] <ubotu> Debian bug 431436 in libqt4-gui "4.3.0-2: Problems with tray icon" [Normal,Fixed]
[04:11] <MidMark> both are fixed in qt-4.3.0-3 from debian
[04:11] <MidMark> so 4.3.0-2ubuntu1 are broken atm in feisty
[04:11] <MidMark> Riddell: bug report? ^
[04:11] <Hobbsee> is this the stuff in -backports, or actually in the release?
[04:12] <MidMark> -backports
[04:12] <MidMark> but all people that has enabled that one has broken qt
[04:13] <Hobbsee> yummy
[04:13] <MidMark> should I bugreport?
[04:13] <Hobbsee> yeah, under feisty-backports project, i expect
[04:14] <ScottK> MidMark: Please do and then ping me when you've done it.
[04:15] <MidMark> ScottK: perfect
[04:15] <MidMark> Hobbsee: I BR against qt and then feisty-backports or what?
[04:16] <Hobbsee> MidMark: i think feisty-backports is actually a project
[04:16] <ScottK> Just backports
[04:16] <ScottK> It's a project
[04:16] <ScottK> If you report it against QT, Hobbsee will just mark it invalid.
[04:16] <MidMark> ok found it :)
[04:16] <MidMark> no need to invalid me :)
[04:19] <ScottK> ;-)
[04:19] <mhb> I knew invalid terrorizing will arrive sooner or later :o)
[04:19] <Hobbsee> ScottK: yet.
[04:19] <ScottK> Heh.
[04:19] <Hobbsee> ScottK: beleive me.  yet.
[04:19] <ScottK> Hobbsee: I'm with you on that.
[04:19] <Hobbsee> ScottK: i tried, and didnt get much traction on making a procses for it at UDS.
[04:20] <ScottK> You need to goad someone expendable (not me please) into doing something so spectactularly stupid that it's obvious they must be fired.
[04:21] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Do you have a way to see how the qt update got published in feisty-backports?  I don't find a backports bug for it and that's the usual process.
[04:21] <Hobbsee> ScottK: you can see who's uploaded it
[04:21] <MidMark> ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/feisty-backports/+bug/126766
[04:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 126766 in feisty-backports "latest qt 4.3 backports produces visual corruption during scrolling and in the systray" [Undecided,New]
[04:21] <Hobbsee> ScottK: i believe that approving a whole lot of syncs, because the diff was empty, counts.
[04:21] <ScottK> Ah.
[04:22] <MidMark> screenshots needed?
[04:22] <ScottK> Not just yet.
[04:22] <Hobbsee> there is no *way* a diff can be empty, and be a ubuntu revision.
[04:22] <ScottK> I'm still doing archive forensics.
[04:22] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Of your two favorites, was it the first or second alphabetically that did that?
[04:23] <Hobbsee> ScottK: it was both of them, i think.
[04:23] <ScottK> Ah.
[04:23] <Hobbsee> definetly the former
[04:23] <ScottK> The later appears to have some use, but isn't careful enough.
[04:23] <ScottK> He's helped me solve a few bugs.
[04:23] <Hobbsee> true
[04:24] <Hobbsee> i mean, if the diff is empty, yet you need to request a sync, then....dont the warning bells even start ringing a little bit?
[04:26] <MidMark> ScottK: I haven't understood, screenshot needed or not?
[04:26] <ScottK> Not yet.  Probably not.
[04:27] <MidMark> ok if yes write in the br
[04:27] <ScottK> I'm still trying to understand how that got into backports.
[04:27] <ScottK> OK.  WIll do.
[04:27] <Hobbsee> ScottK: because backports has been accepting crack recently
[04:27] <Hobbsee> ScottK: and hasn't been checking so carefully, so is not picking up errors, etc
[04:28] <ScottK> Well hasn't been checking carefully isn't the ones I've acked.
[04:28] <Hobbsee> ScottK: yeah, i didnt think they were you
[04:28] <Hobbsee> ScottK: i was thinking of the backports people who arent motu's.
[04:29] <Hobbsee> oh, and a flashplayer update from a while ago.
[04:29] <ScottK> Yeah.
[04:29] <ScottK> Apparently motu-hood is now a requirement for new people.
[04:29] <Hobbsee> yay!
[04:30] <ScottK> So when LP says "Uploaded By" that's the one that did it, right?
[04:31] <ScottK> I mean for the backport.
[04:31] <ScottK> Hobbsee: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/4.3.0-2ubuntu1~feisty1
[04:31] <ScottK> Is that who I think it is that uploaded that?
[04:32] <Hobbsee> ScottK: possibly.  he could have also processed it, so be listed
[04:32] <ScottK> Hmmm
[04:33] <ScottK> Well there's no paper trail in feisty-backports, so I guess I have to ask him...
[04:33] <ScottK> Riddell: Did you backport 4.3.0-2ubuntu1~feisty1?  It seems to be causing some problems.
[04:34] <MidMark> ScottK: yes downloaded that one this morning
[04:34] <MidMark> exactly that version
[04:34] <MidMark> about 6 hours ago
[04:34] <ScottK> Right.  I'm trying to figure out who backported it and why and stick them with cleaning up the mess.
[04:35] <Riddell> ScottK: yes, me, I'll merge with debian to fix
[04:36] <ScottK> Riddell: Thanks.  Please use Bug #126766 to track it.
[04:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 126766 in feisty-backports "latest qt 4.3 backports produces visual corruption during scrolling and in the systray" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/126766
[04:36] <ScottK> MidMark: No screen shots needed.
[04:36] <Riddell> I asked for the screen shots :)
[04:36] <ScottK> Ah.
[04:36] <ScottK> MidMark: ^^^
[04:37] <MidMark> ScottK: if I provide more than needed is better than less ;)
[04:37] <ScottK> Yes
[04:37] <MidMark> just attached
[04:44] <MidMark> bye to all
[04:44] <ScottK> Riddell and Hobbsee: I note that same version is in Gutsy.  Is that going to be a bad thing for Tribe 3?
[04:44] <ScottK> Bye
[04:45] <Riddell> ScottK: nobody has noticed it thus far until today
[04:45] <Hobbsee> ScottK: i'm not delaying tribe 3 over it, so...
[04:45] <ScottK> OK
[04:45] <ScottK> Just thought I'd mention it.
[04:46] <Hobbsee> if someone could fix that, and upload it...
[04:50] <Riddell> are you talking about me?
[04:50] <ScottK> Yes
[04:51] <Riddell> yes, I'll upload to gutsy
[04:51] <Riddell> it won't get fixed until after freeze
[04:51] <ScottK> Of course.
[05:42] <Riddell> nixternal: able to do us a Tribe 3 page?  I put some points on the page
[05:51] <nixternal> I was just getting ready to start it :)
[05:51] <nixternal> good deal, thanks for giving me something to use/work with
[05:51] <DaSkreech> :-)
[05:52] <Hobbsee> ubuntu page also has a bit
[05:52] <ScottK> let us know where the's a URL to complain <<<<< review and provide helpful comments on.
[05:54] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:55] <shtylman> when is tribe 3 slated for release?
[05:55] <Hobbsee> thursday
[05:56] <shtylman> cool
[05:56] <Hobbsee> shtylman: grab a current kubuntu cd and test it out
[05:56] <shtylman> I already have tribe 2 installed :P
[05:56] <Hobbsee> then dist-upgrade...
[05:57] <shtylman> indeed I will
[05:57] <Hobbsee> if you keep doing your upgrades, you'll already be at tribe 3
[05:57] <shtylman> yea...I was just curious when the next cdimg would be out
[05:57] <Hobbsee> ahh
[05:58] <Riddell> shtylman: use the dist upgrade tool and report if it succeeds or not
[05:59] <shtylman> adept updater?
[05:59] <shtylman> or the separate tool?
[05:59] <Riddell> the separate tool
[05:59] <Riddell> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/main/dist-upgrader-all/current/gutsy.tar.gz
[06:01] <shtylman> kk...want me to use it for tribe2->3 or for fawn->gutsy
[06:01] <Riddell> either
[06:01] <shtylman> k
[07:37] <jjesse> afternoon :)
[07:39] <DaSkreech> hi
[08:41] <ScottK> Well the libqt4 thing in feisty-backports just got it's first dupe, so more people are noticing.
[08:49] <nixternal> hrmm, in Gnome, you can't set your display properties like you can in KDE
[08:49] <nixternal> so in order for me to use it, I have to manually edit xorg..what a disappointment
[08:51] <ScottK> nixternal: There's lots of stuff you can't edit in Gnome.    The poor users will be confused if you give them choices.
[08:54] <jjesse> ii thought that was why you used windows
[08:54] <ScottK> OK, well get to patching then.  Let's be #1.
[08:55] <nixternal> that would be a fairly large patch seeing they use an offshoot of Yast
[08:55] <ScottK> Ah.
[08:55] <ScottK> I don't mind if you spend a lot of time working on it ;_)
[08:56] <nixternal> haha
[09:06] <_StefanS_> evening
[10:45] <_StefanS_> Riddell: ^ ?
[11:22] <Tonio_> heya :)
[11:22] <Tm_P> yo
[11:22] <DaSkreech> ZzZzzzzz
[11:23] <Tonio_> DaSkreech: yop :)
[11:23] <Tonio_> Tm_P: yo
[11:23] <Tm_P> I think I might try only use pda now except for video and music
[11:24] <Tm_P> humm
[11:25] <TheInfinity> hmm ... btw - is there any strategy to test the alpha versions? i have now the possibility to have alpha versions in VM so i could test, but except a apt-get error everything is ok ;)
[11:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll prepare the packages to upload tomorrow, that includes kds, kdelibs and a few others
[11:38] <Tonio_> :'(
[11:38] <Tonio_> bzr is SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW
[11:38] <Tonio_> 15 minutes to grab the kds bzr branch
[11:55] <DaSkreech> Tonio_: try cathedral
[11:55] <DaSkreech> It's no faster but at least it will keep you in awe
[12:11] <fdoving> Tonio_: git is fast.
[12:12] <fdoving> we should all exercise more http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=515642196227308929&q=parkour


[00:04] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: So did you want to revert glib to the way it was?
[00:06] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, no, not sure what has happened there!?
[00:06] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: I am referring to your comment last night about some of the binaries being in libglib2.0-dev
[00:06] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, seb fixed it
[00:07] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: oh ok
[00:07] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, oh, and after all that I realised I had added one new binary and forgot the other one...
[00:08] <TheMuso> heh
[00:09] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, looks like seb has wiped out all my changes and done it properly :)
[00:10] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: ah ok
[00:20] <asac> Riddell: awake?
[02:33] <robert_ancell> desrt, ok if I push AM_SILENT_RULES change to dconf git?
[03:04] <desrt> robert_ancell: was there something wrong with how i was using it?
[03:06] <robert_ancell> desrt, oh it wasn't working for me.  I didn't check if you'd added it.  Might be a Maverick problem
[03:06] <desrt> robert_ancell: you need --enable-silent-rules?
[03:07] <robert_ancell> desrt, ah, right.  Can we turn it on by default?
[03:07] <robert_ancell> m4_ifdef([AM_SILENT_RULES],[AM_SILENT_RULES([yes])])
[03:07] <desrt> it's on by default if you use the autogen.sh script
[03:07] <robert_ancell> oh
[03:07] <desrt> any reason you really want it on by default?
[03:07] <desrt> easier to read build logs?
[03:07] <robert_ancell> because it's so much easier to read
[03:07] <desrt> ok
[03:08] <desrt> i'll just switch it on by default
[03:08] <desrt> i already have it hard-depending on automake 1.11
[03:08] <desrt> so no m4 ifdef required
[03:08] <robert_ancell> nice.
[03:09] <desrt> pushed
[03:11] <robert_ancell> dconf pushed to universe...
[03:12] <robert_ancell> desrt, is there anything special I need to do to make dconf work?
[03:14] <desrt> no
[03:14] <desrt> a normal 'make install' is sufficient if you have all the right env variables set for the prefix
[03:14] <desrt> which in the case of /usr is ... none at all
[03:14] <robert_ancell> ok, time to try it out and write dconf-editor...
[03:15] <desrt> you'll find that the libdconf APIs are ... uh... rather extremely incomplete
[03:15] <desrt> i think get list set and set_async work
[03:15] <desrt> if you're lucky, set_many and set_many_async may be working
[03:15] <desrt> and if you're very lucky, is_writable will always return TRUE
[03:15] <desrt> pretty much everything else will get you 'symbol not found' when linking :)
[03:15] <robert_ancell> nice
[03:16] <robert_ancell> ok, so explain to me what /usr/bin/dconf does.  It doesn't have a man page or --help
[03:16] <desrt> it's approximately in the state of the libdconf right now
[03:16] <desrt> largely unimplemented and completely undocumented, only for use by the truly insane
[03:16] <desrt> but you will find that these things work:
[03:17] <desrt> dconf set /some/path 1234
[03:17] <desrt> dconf get /some/path
[03:17] <desrt> dconf list /some/
[03:17] <desrt> er.  sorry.  not get/set
[03:17] <desrt> write/read
[03:18] <robert_ancell> dconf list /
[03:18] <robert_ancell> segfault :)
[03:18] <desrt> interesting.
[03:18] <desrt> it could be that libdconf returns NULL to mean 'nothing here'
[03:19] <desrt> i know the frontend command assumes that it will be an empty list in that case -- not NULL
[03:19] <desrt> try writing something?
[03:20] <robert_ancell> dconf set /fred 1234 gives "unknown command"
[03:20] <desrt> ya.  it's write
[03:20] <desrt> sorry about that
[03:20] <robert_ancell> dconf list now works
[03:21] <desrt> try dconf list /nothinghere/
[03:21] <robert_ancell> "/nothinghere is not a dconf dir"
[03:21] <desrt> try dconf list /nothinghere/
[03:21] <robert_ancell> sefault
[03:21] <desrt> good :)
[03:21] <desrt> that'll be easy to fix
[03:23] <robert_ancell> how does gsettings/dconf recognise when keys have migrated from gconf to dconf?
[03:23] <desrt> it doesn't
[03:23] <desrt> there is a separate migration utility that does the work
[03:23] <desrt> and there's no special marking for "this key was migrated"
[03:23] <robert_ancell> I thought you were saying at UDS there was an automatic migration
[03:23] <desrt> there is
[03:24] <desrt> but you have to write a script for it on a per-app basis
[03:24] <desrt> it runs on login
[03:24] <desrt> the program lives inside of gconf.  not sure if you are packaging it yet
[03:25] <robert_ancell> so as an app developer what do I do to gcalctool to make this script
[03:25] <desrt> it's a keyfile
[03:25] <desrt> say your GSettings schema has the id org.gnome.gcalctool
[03:25] <desrt> and it has one key called 'awesome'
[03:26] <desrt> which used to be stored in gconf at /apps/gcalctool/awesome
[03:26] <desrt> you write this into the file:
[03:26] <desrt> [org.gnome.gcalctool]
[03:26] <desrt> awesome=/apps/gcalctool/awesome
[03:26] <desrt> (end)
[03:26] <desrt> that's how i understand it, at least
[03:26] <robert_ancell> and where does that file go?
[03:26] <desrt> somewhere in /usr/share/gconf/
[03:27] <desrt> http://library.gnome.org/devel/gio/unstable/ch27s07.html
[03:28] <robert_ancell> thanks
[03:28] <robert_ancell> hmm, so we really want to run that after a package is upgraded otherwise you could:
[03:28] <robert_ancell> run gcalctool-old
[03:29] <robert_ancell> apt-get upgrade
[03:29] <robert_ancell> run gcalctool-new
[03:29] <robert_ancell> and it would have no config?  (assuming we are running the dconf backend)
[03:30] <desrt> yes.  that is true.
[03:30] <desrt> but you can't do it as a postinst
[03:30] <desrt> since it's a per-user thing
[03:30] <robert_ancell> yes
[03:30] <desrt> we had a talk at UDS about this
[03:30] <desrt> and it's looking like the user may be forced to logout of their session for dist-upgrades soon
[03:31] <desrt> and i guess the only place you'd see gcalctool-old -> gcalctool-new (as you describe) is in a dist-upgrade
[03:31] <robert_ancell> no, potentially any application that decides to migrated from gconf to gsettings in the future
[03:31] <robert_ancell> e.g. shotwell
[03:32] <desrt> but will ubuntu really be shipping an upgraded version of shotwell in a stable release?
[03:33] <robert_ancell> I guess not
[03:33] <desrt> actually
[03:33] <desrt> there's the upgrade-manager thingy in the user's session, right?
[03:33] <robert_ancell> pass
[03:33] <desrt> heh
[03:33] <desrt> it could run the program whenever it detects that stuff has been installed
[03:33] <robert_ancell> I wonder if we can modify gtk_init or similar to run it
[03:34] <robert_ancell> though really don't want to delay all apps
[03:34] <desrt> ya.  seems like a pretty bad idea
[03:34] <desrt> since i think it's probably not safe to have more than one copy of the tool running at once
[03:34] <desrt> and that would surely happen if you did it from every app
[03:34] <robert_ancell> true
[03:35] <desrt> for migration we were aiming for the method that resulted in the least amount of cruft-distribution
[03:35] <desrt> ie: well-isolated cruft that can easily be removed in the future
[03:35] <desrt> this is the best we could figure out given the constraints
[03:37] <robert_ancell> desrt, is there dconf api docs on the web?
[03:37] <desrt> zilch
[03:37] <desrt> i'll write some of those tonight, i guess
[03:37] <desrt> do you have any questions in the meantime?
[03:38] <robert_ancell> nope, I'll play around and email you anything I think of
[03:38] <desrt> k
[03:38] <desrt> i'll be around here for another hour i guess
[03:38] <desrt> gonna write the docs now, in fact
[03:39] <desrt> btw: i thought about it a bit and i think you'd do well to use a GtkTreeStore fully-populated on startup
[03:40] <desrt> populated at least with the key names -- maybe not the values at first
[03:40] <desrt> ie: lots of list() on startup
[03:40] <desrt> then monitor everything and track changes that way
[03:40] <desrt> it's not worth your effort to try to make a lazy custom GtkTreeModel
[03:41] <robert_ancell> sure
[03:43] <robert_ancell> desrt, should the editor use the engine or client api?
[03:43] <desrt> client
[03:44] <desrt> engine is really not meant to be used except by the ultra-insane
[03:44] <desrt> it's sort of humourously named to semi-reflect the gconf concept
[03:44] <desrt> and at the same time because i just didn't have a better name for it
[03:44] <desrt> but if you use the engine you have to make the dbus calls for yourself
[03:44] <desrt> that's how low-level it is :p
[03:44] <robert_ancell> ok
[03:44] <robert_ancell> what is a "resetlist"
[03:45] <desrt> i'll explain in a second
[03:45] <desrt> taking the dog out
[03:45] <desrt> for you it should be NULL
[03:45] <robert_ancell> ok, i'm just heading out for lunch
[04:50] <Amaranth> wow I think the csd/rgba gtk+ stuff has completely broken the metacity compositor
[04:53] <RAOF> Yup, I think so.
[07:26] <didrocks> good morning
[08:24] <seb128> hey there
[08:25] <didrocks> salut seb128
[08:26] <seb128> hey didrocks
[09:28] <pitti> good morning
[09:29] <pitti> seb128: just driving by, my train leaves in an hour; nice, you have a local box with the floppy issue?
[09:29] <seb128> pitti, yes
[09:29] <seb128> but I'm not on front of it now
[09:29] <seb128> I've regular access to it though
[09:29] <seb128> I can ping you next time when I'm around for debugging
[09:29] <pitti> seb128: happy to have a look next week; I'll do alpha-1 and some oem stuff, but looking at this floppy issue for an hour should at least tell us where the problem is
[09:30] <seb128> ok
[09:30] <seb128> will GNOME is hanging I get floppy io errors printing on vt1
[09:30]  * pitti wishes everyone a nice weekend
[09:30] <seb128> pitti, thanks, have a nice weekend as well!
[09:30] <pitti> seb128: can you run ps while that happens? which processes are in 'D' state?
[09:30] <seb128> will do when I'm on the machine again later on
[09:31] <seb128> but let's debug that next week rather
[09:31] <seb128> there is also a floppy drive listed in gvfs
[09:31] <pitti> yep
[09:31] <seb128> ie in the places menus etc
[09:31] <pitti> right, i don't think we can get rid of that; there's a /dev/fd0 after all
[09:32] <pitti> the bit that we might be able to work around is the hang, not the existence
[09:32] <seb128> the kernel must have a way to check if the bios is lying
[09:32] <pitti> the existence/detection needs to be fixed in the kernel
[09:32] <pitti> linux doesn't rely on the bios for any other drive, but detects them itself
[09:32] <pitti> but perhaps floppies are harder to detect, I don't know
[09:32] <seb128> well perhaps it required trying a read
[09:33] <seb128> and they want to avoid that
[09:33] <seb128> it's noisy, slow and unconvenient
[09:33] <seb128> I will try to ask the kernel team
[09:33] <didrocks> pitti: enjoy your weekend! :)
[09:34] <pitti> can we just erase all notions of floppies from bioses, kernels, and everything else? :-)
[09:34] <seb128> lol
[09:34] <pitti> so in hardy or intrepid we spent hours on making floppies work again in the first place
[09:34] <pitti> and now we spend hours on hiding them
[09:35] <pitti> by now it'd be cheaper to buy those 5 remaining users an usb stick and be done with it :)
[09:35] <seb128> yeah :-)
[09:36] <pitti> at least the "blacklist floppy" workaround seems to work
[09:36] <seb128> well, turning the bios option works as well
[09:36] <seb128> but still only the few subscribed to the bugs will see that trick
[09:36] <seb128> thousands of users out there have their logging hanging for a while
[09:37] <pitti> ok, need to go, see you!
[09:37] <seb128> pitti, have fun, see you later!
[10:05] <huats> morning
[10:08] <didrocks> morning huats
[10:09] <huats> morning didrocks
[10:10] <seb128> lut huats
[10:10] <huats> hello seb128
[10:12] <Riddell> asac: you pinged?
[10:20] <mvo> seb128: if you need a tester for the usb vs floppy, I have a machine that is affected
[10:21] <seb128> mvo, usb vs floppy?
[10:21] <seb128> mvo, the issue there is GNOME login haging on floppy detection on boxes which have no floppy drive
[10:21] <mvo> seb128: that usb automount does not work if there is a floppy drive in the bios
[10:22] <mvo> seb128: aha, ok. I thought you were talking about the "usb-stick-no-longer-autodetected"
[10:22] <seb128> mvo, the bios seems to tell linux there is a floppy
[10:22] <seb128> mvo, I don't know about this one, bug number?
[10:22] <seb128> seems another one that should be fixed in lucid
[10:25] <mvo> seb128: give me a sec to find it
[10:26] <mvo> seb128: bug #583845
[10:26] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 583845 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "Does not detect hotplugged storage device (8.04 -> 10.04 upgraded) (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/583845
[10:26] <rodrigo_> can someone please merge these 2 branches (https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/maverick/couchdb-glib/0-6-91-release and https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/maverick/evolution-couchdb/0-4-91-release), the packages are already uploaded to maverick
[10:26] <mvo> seb128: also appears in the forums
[10:27] <seb128> mvo, you didn't reply to my comment there
[10:27] <rodrigo_> but before merging them, I'd appreciate if there was a branch for lucid created
[10:27] <mvo> seb128: I can update the bug this afternoon, its my parents machine
[10:27] <seb128> mvo, ok, thanks
[10:27] <seb128> mvo, could you also copy the forum url on the bug?
[10:28] <seb128> rodrigo_, you have permissions to upload but not to commit?
[10:28] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes, seems so
[10:28] <seb128> weird
[10:28] <rodrigo_> seb128, let me try again
[10:29] <rodrigo_> no, no permissions
[10:29] <rodrigo_> $ bzr push lp:~ubuntu-desktop/couchdb-glib/ubuntu
[10:29] <rodrigo_> bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(lp-69379536:///~ubuntu-desktop/couchdb-glib/ubuntu/.bzr/branchlock): Transport operation not possible: readonly transport
[10:30] <mvo> seb128: done, I will check this afternoon, it looks like its a dup of #539515
[10:30] <seb128> mvo, thanks
[10:31] <seb128> rodrigo_, is the ubuntu-desktop bzr bounded to the lucid source?
[10:31] <seb128> james_w, ^ do you know about this?
[10:31] <rodrigo_> seb128, it contains what is in lucid right now, yes
[10:32] <seb128> mvo, ok, that's the bug we were discussing before
[10:32] <seb128> rodrigo_, can you try to push to lp:ubuntu/couchdb-glib?
[10:32] <rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, but that branch is different, right? that is, it has all the source code, etc?
[10:33] <seb128> rodrigo_, right, I though you were using that
[10:33] <seb128> not sure why you get an error then
[10:33] <rodrigo_> seb128, lp:ubuntu/couchdb-glib already contains my upload packages
[10:33] <seb128> you should stop using ubuntu-desktop there
[10:34] <seb128> and just use lp:ubuntu/couchdb-glib
[10:34] <seb128> since you are not in ubuntu-desktop it doesn't make sense to store it there
[10:34] <rodrigo_> ah, ok, and use bzr-merge-upstream when doing new releases?
[10:34] <rodrigo_> although, as I said, that branch has my changes uploaded to maverick already
[10:35] <seb128> right
[10:36] <seb128> those have auto import of uploads
[10:36] <seb128> you can either commit to it
[10:36] <seb128> or let the autoimport grab the changes
[10:36] <rodrigo_> and just leave the u-desktop branch die with no updates?
[10:36] <seb128> delete it if you stop using it
[10:37] <rodrigo_> well, I like the u-desktop branch better, just has the debian/ dir and automatically gets the tarball
[10:37] <rodrigo_> usually kenvandine does the merge for me, so I can live with keeping doing that, if it's ok for you
[10:37] <seb128> well you can bzr merge-upstream http://url
[10:37] <seb128> in the other case
[10:37] <seb128> as you prefer
[10:38] <rodrigo_> ok, I prefer the ubuntu-desktop branch :)
[10:38] <rodrigo_> so, why do you have those u-desktop branches then?
[10:38] <seb128> you should perhaps move it somewhere out of ubuntu-desktop though
[10:38] <seb128> since you are not in this team
[10:38] <seb128> not sure what would be a better location though
[10:39] <seb128> rodrigo_, because it's faster to have the debian directory in bzr than the full source
[10:39] <rodrigo_> ok, I'll let kenvandine decide, since he's been managing the merges on that branch
[10:39] <seb128> ok
[10:39] <seb128> should we wait for him for your merge requests?
[10:39] <seb128> I've not worked on those so I would prefer to have him do those
[10:39] <rodrigo_> seb128, as you want, if you want to merge them, go on
[10:39] <rodrigo_> ok
[10:40] <seb128> rodrigo_, btw will you merge the new json-glib version?
[10:40] <seb128> we have 0.7.6-0ubuntu2
[10:40] <seb128> debian has 0.10.2-2
[10:40] <rodrigo_> hmm, didn't plan to, since I don't need it for couchdb-glib, but can do it if you want
[10:41] <rodrigo_> how do I merge a debian branch?
[10:41] <seb128> rodrigo_, I can do it if you want
[10:41] <rodrigo_> seb128, ah, ok, you'd better do it then :)
[10:41] <seb128> ok
[10:41] <seb128> I was just checking in case you didn't get the new version for a reason
[10:41] <rodrigo_> but, yes, how do I merge a debian branch?
[10:41] <seb128> since you are the one who did the previous update for couchdb-glib
[10:42] <rodrigo_> seb128, couchdb-glib builds fine with the json-glib from jhbuild, so I think it's ok
[10:42] <rodrigo_> let me check the version in jhbuild
[10:42] <seb128> rodrigo_, I'm not doing bzr merges for those, I will just grab what debian has and apply our changes
[10:42] <rodrigo_> ah
[10:43] <rodrigo_> 0.11.1 in jhbuild, so it's fine to upgrade
[10:43] <seb128> ok good
[10:52] <mvo> seb128: do you have problems with libgtk/metacity in maverick too? I get flicking all over the place, windows poping up etc
[10:53] <seb128> mvo, no, I'm not using maverick yet though there
[10:54] <seb128> mvo, I run it on my mini but with compiz
[10:54] <mvo> ok
[10:54] <seb128> I think bratsche made a patch for a similar issue, check with fta maybe he is the one what had the bug
[10:55] <seb128> rodrigo_, new json-glib uploaded
[11:02] <fta> mvo, bug 584287
[11:02] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 584287 in metacity (Ubuntu) "Unexpected X error (BadDrawable) causing metacity to abort in maverick (affects: 5) (dups: 1) (heat: 42)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/584287
[11:19] <rodrigo_> seb128, cool
[11:33] <mvo> aha, nice. thanks fta
[11:43] <seb128> TheMuso, hi
[11:43] <seb128> TheMuso, could you give an hand with merges for maverick? it seems you are done with your list now and a bit less busy than some other team members for alpha1 and alpha2
[11:53] <desrt> nice glibc security update
[11:54] <desrt> update 1: arbitrary code execution from a file that only root can write to!
[11:54] <desrt> update 2: arbitrary code execution from.... executables...
[11:59] <james_w> rodrigo_: do you have "bzr launchpad-login" done on that machine? That looks like the error you get when pushing to http
[12:00] <rodrigo_> james_w, yes, I do, I can push to other branches with no problem
[12:00] <james_w> rodrigo_: would you file a bug against 'udd' then please?
[12:00] <rodrigo_> james_w, about me missing permissions on that branch?
[12:02] <james_w> rodrigo_: exactly, I'll investigate further
[12:02] <rodrigo_> ok
[12:07] <rodrigo_> james_w, 'udd'?
[12:07] <james_w> the 'udd' project on Launchpad
[12:09] <rodrigo_> ah, ok
[12:13] <rodrigo_> james_w, https://bugs.launchpad.net/udd/+bug/586767
[12:13] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 586767 in udd "Don't have permissions to push to lp:~ubuntu-desktop/couchdb-glib/ubuntu but has upload permissions (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New]
[12:13] <james_w> thanks rodrigo_
[12:29] <rodrigo_> seb128, what are the plans with pygi? is it going to make it to maverick?
[12:30] <seb128> rodrigo_, yes
[12:30] <seb128> I think robert_ancell was working on it
[12:31] <rodrigo_> ok
[12:31] <seb128> not sure when it will be ready though
[13:22] <seb128> mvo_, bug #574577
[13:22] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 574577 in command-not-found (Ubuntu) "spelling error: priviledge (affects: 1) (heat: 9)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574577
[13:22] <seb128> mvo_, easy patch for you there
[13:22] <mvo_> thanks seb128
[13:22] <seb128> np ;-)
[13:29] <kenvandine> hey rodrigo_
[13:30]  * kenvandine waves good morning to everyone
[13:30] <kenvandine> rodrigo_, i read some of the scrollback, you need merges for the package branches that you already uploaded?
[13:31] <kenvandine> rodrigo_, now that you have per-package uploads it might make sense to move that branch
[13:33] <rodrigo_> kenvandine, yes, seb128 was suggesting that, although I'm ok with asking you to do the merges, if that's ok
[13:33] <kenvandine> that's fine too
[13:34] <seb128> ArneGoetje, could you look at bug #569442 when you have some time?
[13:34] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 569442 in ttf-wqy-zenhei (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "After upgradeing to Lucid, unexpectedly-using bitmap font in Japanese Environment (upgrading regression) (affects: 3) (heat: 22)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/569442
[13:35] <seb128> ArneGoetje, and advice on what we should be doing
[13:35] <ArneGoetje> seb128: sure
[13:35] <seb128> ArneGoetje, thanks
[13:35] <kenvandine> rodrigo_, so couchdb-glib and evolution-couchdb?
[13:35] <rodrigo_> kenvandine, I'm working though on that branch to add the gir packages, so if you want, don't merge yet
[13:35] <kenvandine> ok
[13:35] <kenvandine> excellent :)
[13:36] <kenvandine> that is for couhdb-glib right?
[13:36] <rodrigo_> kenvandine, you can merge evo-couchdb one, if you want, but I guess it's better to wait for the couchdb-glib changes
[13:36] <rodrigo_> yes
[13:36] <kenvandine> i can go ahead and do evolution-couchdb?
[13:36] <kenvandine> ok
[13:36] <kenvandine> i'll wait
[13:36] <rodrigo_> kenyes, as you wish
[13:36] <kenvandine> just give me a shout
[13:36] <rodrigo_> kenvandine, ok, as soon as they build ok, I'll push and ping you
[13:36] <kenvandine> thx
[13:48] <seb128> mvo_, bug #562729 has one change to review as well if you are interested
[13:48] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 562729 in gdebi (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "gdebi: could not show link: operation not supported (affects: 2) (heat: 14)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/562729
[13:48] <seb128> mvo_, bug #562729 has one change to review as well if you are interested
[13:48] <mvo_> thanks seb128
[13:48] <seb128> ups
[13:48] <seb128> mvo_, yw
[13:48] <seb128> mvo_, sorry to bother you with those ;-)
[13:49] <mvo_> seb128: thats fine, thanks for looking at them
[13:49] <seb128> mvo_, I'm trying to clean a bit the list of patches on launchpad
[14:14] <seb128> mvo_, bug #433838
[14:14] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 433838 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Use an icon in the location bar (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/433838
[14:14] <seb128> mvo_, could you review this one as well, it's probably not something you want from reading mpt comments though
[14:14] <seb128> mvo_, either close it of change the tag to patch-needswork if you can
[14:14] <seb128> mvo_, thanks ;-)
[14:14] <mvo_> seb128: yeah, I think this needs to be rejected by mpt if he does not want it
[14:25] <bryceh> seb128, I see david scheduled a meeting but I see no sign of him on #ubuntu-meeting... is it being held elsewhere?
[14:26] <seb128> bryceh, the arsenal one?
[14:26] <bryceh> yeah
[14:26] <seb128> sorry, got reported
[14:26] <seb128> ara pinged us on an another channel asking if we could report
[14:26] <seb128> she didn't have time to look at the arsenal yet
[14:26] <bryceh> reported?
[14:26] <seb128> we agreed to do it another day
[14:27] <seb128> davidbarth, ^
[14:27] <bryceh> hrm, I got up early for nada
[14:27] <seb128> sorry :-(
[14:27] <bryceh> seb128, ok thanks for the info
[14:42] <mpt> seb128, that bug's waiting on design work, not code review. It doesn't have to be me who does the design work, though.
[14:46] <seb128> mpt, hum ok, what do you suggest to get the bug out of the review queue?
[14:46] <seb128> mpt, does the change needs work or is incorrect or need a review?
[14:47] <mpt> seb128, where is this review queue and how is it composed?
[14:47] <seb128> mpt, the queue is basically all bugs in launchpad with a patch attached
[14:47] <mpt> seb128, if it's from the "patch" tag, then I guess the easiest way is to remove that tag
[14:47] <seb128> mpt, the bug can be tagged patch-needwork if it needs work
[14:47] <seb128> or incorrect
[14:48] <seb128> that would make it go out of the list
[14:48] <seb128> or is the change maybe correct but blocked on design to decide on what to do?
[14:50] <mpt> If it's from "Ubuntu Review Team" subscription, then the easiest way is to unsubscribe them
[14:50] <mpt> I have no idea whether it's correct or not. It depends what the design is!
[14:51] <seb128> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReviewersTeam/ReviewGuide
[14:51] <seb128> mpt, ^
[14:52] <mpt> ah, hm
[14:52] <seb128> basically the patch either needs review, or has been reviewed
[14:52] <seb128> if it has been reviewed it should be applied or tagged needwork
[14:52] <seb128> we don't seem to have status out of this
[14:53] <mpt> On the one hand, it's brilliant that we have an effort to review unapplied patches now
[14:53] <mpt> On the other hand, the process doesn't seem to cater for this kind of case
[14:53] <seb128> right, I'm just trying to think what case that is now
[14:53] <seb128> so we can update the documentation for it
[14:53] <seb128> is that a "blocked on <something>"
[14:54] <seb128> where something is a designer comment there?
[14:55] <mpt> yeah
[14:55] <mpt> maybe patch-needsdesign
[14:55] <mpt> Are there any other cases where a patch might be blocked on something that isn't code review?
[14:56] <seb128> not that I can think of right now
[14:58] <mpt> seb128, ok, I've changed it to patch-needsdesign
[14:59] <vish> mpt: currently even the design bugs are currently being just tagged as patch-needswork
[14:59] <seb128> mpt, thanks
[14:59] <mpt> vish, "the design bugs"? Can you give an example?
[15:00] <vish> mpt: hmm , like the theme bugs  , let me find one
[15:03] <vish> mpt: darn it , i cant find one right now ! , but thats what i have been using , usually i check with kwwii and if he doesnt like it had been using the patch-needswork tag
[15:06] <seb128> vish, right, needswork means the submiter need to update the change
[15:06] <seb128> vish, there it's blocked on the reviewing side
[15:07] <vish> yup, the bug mentioned is a bit different though.. we should probably ad it to the default tag list
[15:07] <vish> add*
[15:08] <seb128> vish, I've raised the question on #ubuntu-reviews
[15:12] <vish> mpt: ah got one , Bug #160311
[15:12] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 160311 in metacity (Ubuntu) (and 5 other projects) "Resizing windows by grabbing window borders is difficult (affects: 121) (dups: 4) (heat: 650)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160311
[15:12] <vish> but yeah , an new design specific tag would be nice
[15:12] <vish> a*
[15:15] <qense> davidbarth: Where you aware <https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-m-app-indicator> is still not accepted for the maverick series?
[15:15] <qense> It's still 'proposed'
[15:18] <vish> qense: is there an open bug for the weather-report applet to be ported to the indicators?
[15:18] <qense> vish: not that I am aware of
[15:18] <qense> but it seems likely there is one
[15:19] <vish> qense: hmm , it is among the default applets we somehow missed it for lucid
[15:19] <qense> vish: missed it for Lucid? What do you mean?
[15:19] <qense> It is a part of the calendar applet.
[15:19] <rickspencer3> seb128, chrisccoulson, hi
[15:20] <chrisccoulson> hi rickspencer3
[15:20] <vish> qense: nah , there is another one  , we can add it via  , but no one seems to have noticed it
[15:20] <seb128> hey rickspencer3
[15:20] <vish> *via "add to panel"
[15:20] <qense> vish: aha
[15:20] <qense> No, I didn't notice that. :)
[15:20] <seb128> vish, it's still there
[15:20] <rickspencer3> seb128, chrisccoulson I think we should send a heads up to the @ubuntu-devel about next week's update
[15:20] <seb128> vish, we didn't port applets but notification area icons
[15:21] <rickspencer3> and we should set up a bit of a Q+A in case we get questions
[15:21] <seb128> rickspencer3, I would wait for the ppa to be ready
[15:21] <rickspencer3> seb128, ack
[15:21] <seb128> rickspencer3, so we can do call for testing at the same time
[15:21] <rickspencer3> I started a wiki to coordinate the communication:
[15:21] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Mozilla/FirefoxHardyJaunty
[15:21] <seb128> rickspencer3, thanks
[15:21] <rickspencer3> seb128, sounds good
[15:21] <vish> seb128: oh , ok , thanks
[15:21] <seb128> chrisccoulson sent the email about testing to ara and me today
[15:21] <rickspencer3> this is a big change, if it breaks folks, there are going to be some unhappy people out there
[15:21] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks btw
[15:22] <seb128> rickspencer3, it's going to break for some users
[15:22] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - you're welcome
[15:22] <chrisccoulson> i'm a bit stuck atm, our PPA just ran out of space ;)
[15:22] <seb128> rickspencer3, or some things are going to break, maybe not firefox or hopefully not it
[15:22] <seb128> chrisccoulson, did you contact #is about it?
[15:22] <chrisccoulson> i'm just about to
[15:23] <seb128> ok good
[15:23] <rickspencer3> seb128, I hope nothing breaks
[15:23] <rickspencer3> and I have all the faith in chrisccoulson
[15:23] <rickspencer3> none the less, sh*t happens
[15:23] <davidbarth> qense: i'm aware of that; it's mostly that we want to deal with that at the bug level; an extra bp is just more work to track
[15:23] <seb128> rickspencer3, well things like changing epiphany-gecko to webkit will break
[15:23] <rickspencer3> if nothing else, users are going to be surprised with a new version of FF
[15:23] <seb128> rickspencer3, epiphany-webkit is not at the same level than the gecko one
[15:23] <qense> davidbarth: ok
[15:24] <davidbarth> qense: we discussed that during the dx/desktop roundtable
[15:24] <chrisccoulson> pleasantly surprised, hopefully ;)
[15:24] <rickspencer3> right
[15:24] <seb128> but if we can make the firefox update smooth that's good
[15:24] <seb128> other side effects we will have to deal with
[15:25] <qense> davidbarth: Then I missed that point.
[15:25] <chrisccoulson> the other thing i'm still concerned about is that intrepid isn't on oldreleases yet
[15:25] <seb128> chrisccoulson, how is that a concern?
[15:25] <chrisccoulson> i don't want users to have any option of upgrading to intrepid after the migration, as the upgrade won't work
[15:25] <chrisccoulson> (not unless we also do the porting effort for intrepid too)
[15:25] <seb128> don't
[15:26] <seb128> did you try to let ask #is about that?
[15:27] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - asac suggested someone in #soyuz to talk to, although we just found out he's on vacation
[15:27] <Laney> date
[15:28] <asac> let me look at the security ppa state
[15:28] <seb128> asac, thanks
[15:28] <seb128> asac, hey btw, how are you?
[15:30] <rickspencer3> asac, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Mozilla/FirefoxHardyJaunty
[15:36] <asac> seb128: i am in san jose ... 7+am ;)
[15:37] <asac> (currently on an interview) will check that wiki after
[15:37] <seb128> asac, oh, already awake or not yet to bed? ;-)
[15:37] <seb128> asac, good luck
[15:38] <asac> unfortunately i have a call right now ;) ... would have preferred to sleep longer ;)
[15:38] <bcurtiswx> sleep is overrated
[15:40]  * didrocks understands now why asac change a bug report status at 3AM :)
[15:40] <bcurtiswx> it's already after noon for most of you.. right?
[15:42] <asac> heh
[15:49] <seb128> didrocks, asac usually works at 3am though
[15:49] <seb128> ;-)
[15:49] <didrocks> seb128: heh :-)
[15:51] <seb128> kenvandine, hey
[15:51] <seb128> kenvandine, http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-1.html
[15:52] <seb128> kenvandine, where do we stand for your items? alpha1 is next week, is that still on track?
[15:52] <kenvandine> i think so
[15:52]  * kenvandine updates WIs
[15:53] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[15:53] <kenvandine> 2 of those work items are about getting it in main for maverick
[15:54] <kenvandine> but i was told we are just putting it in the ppa for now
[15:54] <kenvandine> so i'll move those to a2
[15:54] <seb128> thanks
[15:54] <kenvandine> didrocks, is that your understanding too?
[15:54] <kenvandine> didrocks, you have one to seed the appmenu indicator for une
[15:55] <didrocks> kenvandine: sorry, chromium going crazy, trying to reload the page
[15:55] <didrocks> kenvandine: this one is for alpha2, right?
[15:56] <kenvandine> yeah
[15:56] <kenvandine> i think so
[15:56] <didrocks> kenvandine: oh, didn't choose the right place, changing it :)
[15:56] <kenvandine> well it is for alpha1 now
[15:56] <kenvandine> :)
[15:56] <kenvandine> can you move the 2 lines above it too?
[15:56] <kenvandine> :)
[15:56] <didrocks> kenvandine: the seed is for alpha2, what about yours?
[15:56] <didrocks> sure :)
[15:56] <kenvandine> thx
[15:56] <didrocks> kenvandine: done
[15:56] <kenvandine> thx
[16:04] <didrocks> seb128: FYI, I've changed slightly the place where my WI are (and rename them) with davidbarth to https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-m-unity-une-integration and other dx WI
[16:04] <seb128> didrocks, ok
[16:23] <rickspencer3> tremolux, mvo_, hi, sounds like the "new apps on stable release" back end implementation is figured out
[16:23] <rickspencer3> anything we need to do before we can get started now?
[16:25] <tremolux> rickspencer3: ah, good news!  I haven't seen the details?
[16:25] <rickspencer3> wait
[16:25] <rickspencer3> I guess elmo has not totally signed off
[16:25] <tremolux> rickspencer3: where's the work happening?
[16:26] <tremolux> rickspencer3: we doing a new pocket?
[16:26] <mvo_> rickspencer3: yeah, we can start working
[16:27] <mvo_> rickspencer3: I was working on "discover what archives you are subscribed to today"
[16:29] <rickspencer3> tremolux, sounds like it's going to be built off of PPAs
[16:29] <rickspencer3> mvo_, is this in the spec?
[16:29] <rickspencer3> (in other words, I will bug you less if there is something I can read ;) )
[16:29] <tremolux> rickspencer3: gotcha, cool
[16:29] <mvo_> rickspencer3: its part of the buy-stuff spec, yes
[16:31] <rickspencer3> sweet
[16:31] <rickspencer3> thanks again you guys
[16:31] <rickspencer3> I am very happy this morning
[16:31] <rickspencer3> :)
[16:32] <seb128> "       Status: Incomplete => Expired"
[16:32] <seb128> bryceh, ^ is that new?
[16:33] <bryceh> seb128, yes
[16:33] <seb128> nice!
[16:33] <bryceh> :-)
[16:35] <bcurtiswx> which bug?
[16:35] <bcurtiswx> wait.. not a bug thing?
[17:37] <seb128> hum
[17:37] <mpt> seb128, do you know whether changing the time zone is supposed to require authentication or not?
[17:37] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do you have an estimation for firefox ppa being ready?
[17:38] <seb128> mpt, it's not for desktop users
[17:38] <seb128> mpt, we install a polkit profile which allows it
[17:38] <mpt> From System > Preferences > Time and Date it does, but from right-clicking on clock > Preferences it doesn't
[17:38] <seb128> the first one will be deprecated this cycle
[17:38] <seb128> the second one is allow in the desktop profile we install
[17:38] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - it's likely that i'm going to be uploading things in to the weekend
[17:39] <mpt> seb128, of course, I'm designing a replacement for both of them. What I want to know is whether I need to include the lock/unlock widget
[17:39] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, can you let me know when it's ready?
[17:39] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, no problem
[17:39] <seb128> mpt, oh, you need
[17:39] <seb128> mpt, well you need to handle the need for password in some cases
[17:39] <mpt> I can understand that you need to authenticate to change the time itself
[17:39] <mpt> just not sure about the timezone
[17:40] <mpt> Is the timezone a system thing or a user-specific thing?
[17:40] <seb128> you need permissions for that as well
[17:40] <seb128> system
[17:40] <mpt> ok, thanks seb128
[17:40] <seb128> you're welcome
[17:40] <mpt> that makes the layout easier
[18:52] <asac> chrisccoulson: on the wiki page about updating ffox ... there is one flaw: the jaunty update has to also go out together with karmic so upgrades still work
[18:53] <asac> so i think it should be hardy + jaunty + karmic
[18:53] <chrisccoulson> asac - yeah, i just realised that a few moments ago
[18:53] <asac> chrisccoulson: jaunty has 3.0?
[18:53] <chrisccoulson> i've got the jaunty update in the PPA and then started wondering how the upgrade works
[18:53] <chrisccoulson> asac - yeah, jaunty has 3.0
[18:54] <chrisccoulson> which is a bit of a pain ;)
[18:54] <asac> right.
[18:54] <asac> so yeah, then you need all three to be pushed out
[18:54] <chrisccoulson> that is a pain. i think i might cancel my holiday on monday ;)
[18:55] <asac> heh ... i remember exactly that thats life as a mozilla slave ;)
[18:55] <chrisccoulson> lol
[18:55] <asac> and never take holidays and be at home
[18:55] <asac> there always will be a firedrill in that week ;)
[18:55] <chrisccoulson> so, it's going to be difficult to get this all ready for next week, if we have to do karmic too
[18:57] <asac> chrisccoulson: when is the planned release? thu?
[18:57] <asac> or wed?
[18:57] <chrisccoulson> asac - well, 3.6.4 is scheduled for tuesday
[18:57] <asac> oh
[18:58] <chrisccoulson> i don't think we'd manage that, even without karmic ;)
[18:58] <asac> chrisccoulson: i think you should do hardy + karmic then
[18:58] <asac> in that way jaunty -> karmic upgrades still work
[18:58] <asac> and we dont support hardy -> jaunty upgrades
[18:58] <chrisccoulson> yeah, could do. i'm trying to make sure hardy -> lucid upgrades are working
[18:58] <asac> at least i asked mvo to disable hardy -> intrepid ... so for hardy there is only hardy->lucid
[18:59] <asac> mvo: did you do that?
[18:59] <chrisccoulson> and then i forgot to make sure that jaunty -> karmic upgrades still work ;)
[18:59] <asac> ;)
[18:59] <asac> chrisccoulson: yeah. so i would think you should really get karmic + hardy out if possible ... and jaunty asap
[19:00] <asac> chrisccoulson: let me know when the call for testing goes out so i can also blog about it
[19:18] <statik> hola desktoppers. i wonder if anyone could give me some tips on debugging window manager problems so that I could file a useful bug report
[19:18] <statik> i'm running maverick, and have started to have problems where most apps that I run don't have any window borders and flash constantly
[19:19] <statik> a few applications are working ok, such as terminal, x-chat, and chromium. many others have this strange flashing problem, including terminator and firefox
[19:21] <chrisccoulson> statik, that's bug 584287
[19:21] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 584287 in metacity (Ubuntu) "Unexpected X error (BadDrawable) causing metacity to abort in maverick (affects: 5) (dups: 1) (heat: 42)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/584287
[19:21] <statik> chrisccoulson, thanks!
[19:25] <rickspencer3> statik, thanks for using maverick!
[19:25] <rickspencer3> you da' man!
[19:25] <rickspencer3> :)
[19:26] <statik> rickspencer3, it's the only way to roll! gotta report bugs before the milestones, not after :D
[19:27] <rickspencer3> :)
[20:35] <ccheney> hmm still no air conditioning at home, hopefully the repairman will be back out later today
[20:35]  * ccheney needs to do OOo builds but doubts his system will keep from falling over under this circumstance
[20:43] <asac> Riddell: damn ... dropped the ball? already gone for weekend?
[20:44] <asac> Riddell: wanted to discuss what we can do about qt-embedded ... seems its not abi compatible, so i guess we would have to change sonames and then invent a mechanism to automatically ship everything building against qt to also build against that soname
[20:44] <asac> Riddell: any ideas?
[20:45]  * didrocks waves goodbye
[20:46] <didrocks> enjoy your week-end!
[20:46] <didrocks> (mine will be busy with Paris Ubuntu party :))
[20:49] <seb128> didrocks, thanks, have a great ubuntu party this weekend ;-)
[21:23] <asac> mvo: can you help out chrisccoulson testing ffox major version transition in combination with hardy -> lucid upgrade?
[21:24] <asac> i know you have quite sophisticated setup to test dist upgrades
[21:24] <mvo> asac: yes
[21:24] <asac> great. ... chrisccoulson ^^^ lets get mvo a present after this
[21:24] <mvo> asac, chrisccoulson: please send me a mail with the hardy ppa
[21:24] <mvo> and I can run a upgrade test against that
[21:24] <chrisccoulson> mvo - excellent, thanks. i will do that once i've got all the packages in
[21:26] <mvo> thanks
[22:02] <ccheney> my computer room temp is at 30C and rising, have to shutdown the box i normally run irc on, apparently the repairman will be out either later tonight or by tomorrow morning :-\
[22:02]  * ccheney hopes its by later today
[22:03]  * ccheney bbl
[22:04] <ccheney> main part of the house is at 28C and rising about 3C per hour it seems, had to completely turn off the AC unit due to the problems it was having
[22:25] <Riddell> asac: which qtembedded?
[22:26] <Riddell> I lose track
[22:26] <asac> Riddell: heh
[22:26] <asac> Riddell: so ... you can build qt with --for-embedded or something
[22:26] <asac> that will produce a qt that is good for without x
[22:27] <asac> unfortunately that lib has the same soname upstream, but is binary incompatible
[22:27] <asac> so i think to ship tha tin the same archive it needs a distinct soname
[22:27] <asac> however, most qt apps should just work if they are built against that
[22:28] <asac> so i think after experimenting a bit and verifying that thats the case it would be best to somehow get all qt packages build an embedded version
[22:28] <asac> of course if you have better ideas, shoot
[22:29] <asac> note: take this with a grain of salt. i didnt check this on my own, and we are still investigating. just anted to get your brain working ;)
[22:29] <asac> sand ;)
[22:29] <asac> not sure what the right phrase is ;)
[22:30] <Riddell> asac: mm, all qt apps?  if that includes KDE that's quite a lot
[22:30] <Riddell> but I'm pretty sure KDE will require X
[22:31] <Riddell> and probably most Qt apps do for something
[22:31] <Riddell> probably not a quick job to find every qt package that doesn't need X and change its packaging to build twice
[22:31] <asac> Riddell: right. could be. but we dont know yet. so what i think would be good would be an easy way to locally build
[22:31] <asac> against embedded to try
[22:32] <asac> and once we know how many work/do not work, we can see if we need to make packages or something out of it
[22:33] <asac> is there some magic debhelper for qt apps that we could use to provide such a "try locally or in ppa" feature?
[22:34] <asac> Riddell: what do you think do qt/kde apps use x for usually?
[22:34] <Riddell> qt apps is quite a wide category in terms of build systems, some are qmake, some cmake, some autotools so no one way to build them
[22:34] <asac> getting settings from an x window?
[22:34] <Riddell> some packages will be cdbs, some debhelper 7 etc
[22:34] <asac> yeah, but you probably have a cdbs .mk and debhelper plugin etc. that could be hacked?
[22:35] <asac> or are many packages still really manual?
[22:35] <Riddell> very little is manual
[22:36] <Riddell> but it's a cross of cdbs/debhlper 7 and qmake/cmake/autotools
[22:36] <Riddell> so lots of combinations of build systems
[22:38] <asac> yeah. but at least an infinite set ;)
[22:38] <asac> hehe
[22:38] <asac> ok
[22:38] <asac> didrocks: you know the gconf key for the une desktop background ?
[22:39] <asac> is that already overloaded in some gconf hook?
[22:39] <asac> e.g. do we ned to take care of the order/number to ensure that ours is used?
[22:40] <asac> err s/infin/fin/
[22:48] <ccheney> yipee, air conditioning people will be here in 30m so maybe we won't have to stay in the heat and without computers much longer :)
[22:51]  * ccheney has 5 OOo builds to do, so needs his computer back up asap