[10:56] <Kilos> whew, just made it
[10:56] <Kilos> morning superfly and everyone else
[10:56] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[10:56]  * Maaz starts grinding coffee
[11:00] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[11:36] <superfly> hi Kilos
[17:36]  * nuvolari yawns
[17:36] <nuvolari> morning
[17:57] <kbmonkey> morning!
[19:01] <Kilos> The Irish have solved their own fuel problems.


[00:12] <StevenK> wgrant: Shall I put a deployment together?
[00:13] <wgrant> StevenK: I was just looking to see what our state was. Please do.
[00:40] <wallyworld> wgrant: i've been reading some postgres tuning stuff and it seems it's best to create separate, single column indices to aid sorting, rather than a multi-column index. do you agree?
[00:45] <wgrant> wallyworld: Where'd you read that?
[00:45] <wgrant> It is nonsense :)
[00:45] <wallyworld> i'd have to find the lin kagain
[00:45] <wgrant> You can't sort using a composition of multiple indices -- that doesn't make sense
[00:46] <wgrant> It has to be a single composite index
[00:46] <StevenK> wallyworld: History -> Recently Closed Tabs ?
[00:46] <StevenK> If using Firefox
[00:46] <wallyworld> there's a lot of recently closed tabs
[00:46] <wgrant> Indices are usually b-trees, and it's a bit difficult to aggregate b-trees usefully :)
[00:46] <wallyworld> i can't recall which one
[00:47] <wallyworld> in this case, we need to sort on distorseries, spn, archive, date, person
[00:47] <wgrant> Why?
[00:47] <wgrant> Which query's this?
[00:47] <wallyworld> where person is creator or maintainor or neither
[00:47] <wallyworld> because we need the grouping
[00:48] <wgrant> Right, but think about how you'd follow indices to get what you need
[00:48] <wallyworld> so the batch iteration can figure out the distinct sprs
[00:48] <wgrant> You should quickly realise that that index is entirely inappropriate for it
[00:48] <wgrant> We have a person, and want want the n most recent uploads
[00:48] <wgrant> So the first key has to be the person
[00:48] <wgrant> Following that must be the overall sort key
[00:49] <wgrant> So we have (creator, dateuploaded DESC, id)
[00:49] <wallyworld> sure, i didn;t say about that would be the index order
[00:49] <wgrant> Ah
[00:49] <wgrant> Why do we need to sort on distroseries, spn, archive?
[00:49] <wallyworld> but if we need to sort on those columns, they would need to be in the index somewhere, no?
[00:49] <wgrant> We only need that if we do the distinct in postgres
[00:49] <wallyworld> for the frouping
[00:49] <StevenK> wgrant: Tempted to nail bug 779367 shut
[00:49] <_mup_> Bug #779367: spurious failure in test_builder.TestSlave <critical-analysis> <spurious-test-failure> <test-system> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/779367 >
[00:49] <wallyworld> grouping
[00:49] <wgrant> But we can't efficiently do the distinct in postgres
[00:49] <wgrant> StevenK: Indeed
[00:50] <wallyworld> wgrant: if we need to iterate the batch, we need the grouping
[00:50] <wgrant> wallyworld: howso?
[00:50] <wallyworld> so that all the 'like' records are together in the batch
[00:50] <wgrant> Postgres requires that, but a Python implementation would not
[00:51] <wgrant> We're doing it in Python precisely because postgres can't do it efficiently
[00:51] <wgrant> If we sort by the grouping, then we have to traverse the whole set anyway
[00:51] <wgrant> So the index is pointless
[00:51] <wallyworld> so we could have a (archive, date) at the start, and an (archive, date) at the end of the query
[00:51] <wallyworld> and we would not know they were for the same archive
[00:52] <wallyworld> since they would be in different batches
[00:52] <wgrant> Ah, indeed, it's batched, forgot that
[00:52] <wallyworld> so sadly we need to group
[00:52] <wgrant> To do the batching we will have to evaluate the whole thing in Python, either way
[00:52] <wgrant> We cannot group at the DB level.
[00:53] <wallyworld> so i wil have to iterate the entire result set
[00:53] <wgrant> Which means that batches after the first will be inefficient, but there's not much we can do
[00:53] <wgrant> You don't have to iterate the entire resultset
[00:53] <wgrant> You only have to iterate until you find 75 that are distinct
[00:53] <wallyworld> which could be everything
[00:53] <wgrant> It could be, yes.
[00:53] <wgrant> But it's not very likely
[00:54] <wallyworld> also, the creator or maintainer is optional
[00:54] <wgrant> How's it optional?
[00:54] <wgrant> +ppa-packages has a person as context
[00:54] <wgrant> Therefore it always has a creator
[00:54] <wallyworld> sure, but the other ones don't
[00:54] <wallyworld> there are 3
[00:54] <wgrant> They're all pages under :Person
[00:54] <wgrant> So they will always have as creator or maintainer
[00:54] <wallyworld> but the same metyhod is used elsewhere
[00:55] <wallyworld> with no creator or maintainer
[00:55] <wgrant> It presumably has some other context, though
[00:55] <wallyworld> but it will be slow then
[00:56] <wgrant> In which other contexts is it used?
[00:56] <wallyworld> getLatestMaintainedPackages
[00:56] <wallyworld> it's also on the person page
[00:57] <wallyworld> it sets uploader_only - false
[00:58] <wallyworld> so no creator or maintainer is added to the query
[00:59] <wgrant> But it's on Person, so it presumably has some kind of person filter
[01:00] <wallyworld> not that i can see unless i missed something
[01:01] <wgrant> Well, it would otherwise be global
[01:01] <wgrant> Which is entirely nonsensical
[01:02] <wgrant> It is called in three modes: maintainer, non-PPA uploader, and PPA uploader
[01:02] <wallyworld> i just checked, i think there is an extra condition added in, but just not there
[01:02] <StevenK> https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenk/launchpad/undisable-tests/+merge/132235
[01:02] <wgrant> uploader_only=False and ppa_only=True would result in an unbounded set, but that's never used
[01:03] <wallyworld> so it does seem it's always creator or maintainer in the query
[01:04] <wgrant> Indeed
[01:05] <wgrant> It doesn't really make sense for a method on Person to not constrain by person :)
[01:06] <wallyworld> true
[01:06] <wallyworld> so, what would a reasonable batch size be? 75?
[01:07] <wgrant> That tends to be the default
[01:07] <wallyworld> ok, will try that. we'll have to test with known pathological cases
[01:09] <wgrant> Well, this will be exposed to a new variety of pathological cases
[01:09] <wallyworld> yeah, sadly that may be the case
[01:09] <wgrant> It may almost be worth denorming this, but the workaround for these pages shouldn't be too terrible for now
[01:09] <wallyworld> let's see how this goes first
[01:18] <StevenK> wallyworld, wgrant: https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenk/launchpad/undisable-tests/+merge/132235
[01:19] <wallyworld> WCPGW
[01:20] <wallyworld> is it worth looking at WHY they are fragile?
[01:20] <wallyworld> and perhaps fixing a root cause issue?
[01:21] <StevenK> Any data we have on these tests is >18 months old, we need to enable them to see what is going on now
[01:21] <wallyworld> so maybe just an "ec2 test" run to see what's up?
[01:21] <wallyworld> i fear that they may well pass once, geth through ok, and then fail tomorrow
[01:22] <StevenK> I'll be tossing it at ec2 land once the MP is approved
[01:22] <StevenK> wallyworld: And we can disable them if they prove to be doing their old tricks, but then we have current data
[01:23] <wallyworld> guess so
[01:23] <StevenK> What I am doing is a Curtis Approved Plan.
[01:23] <wallyworld> a couple of ec2 test runs would also provide data
[01:23] <wallyworld> ok
[01:23] <StevenK> wallyworld: Wrong. buildbot is parallel, and ec2 is not.
[01:24] <wallyworld> were the failures only parallel? i don't think so
[01:24] <wallyworld> anyway, r=me
[01:24] <StevenK> No, but they can be impacted by it
[01:25] <wallyworld> maybe the stars will align and it will all be ok, let's see
[01:37] <nigelb> Hi! I have an old lp tree lying around.
[01:37] <nigelb> Will doing a bzr update and make run "Just Work"?
[01:38] <nigelb> s/update/pull/g
[01:41]  * nigelb does rf-get and hopes
[01:45] <wallyworld> it should work, but you will need to do a make schema before you run
[01:48] <StevenK> nigelb: rf-get will also grab new sourcedeps and such too
[01:49] <nigelb> StevenK: Oh awesome.
[01:49] <nigelb> wallyworld: Noted.
[01:49] <nigelb> This is gonna take a while. it's at least an year old tree.
[02:49] <wallyworld> wgrant: here's the mp for that related software work https://code.launchpad.net/~wallyworld/launchpad/ppa-packages-timeout-1071581/+merge/132236
[03:02] <StevenK> lp.code.model.tests.test_sourcepackagerecipebuild.TestBuildNotifications.test_handleStatus_OK_successful_upload loses
[03:03] <StevenK> Fails on ec2
[03:07] <wallyworld> :-(
[03:12] <nigelb> Apparently it's not very smooth.
[03:13] <nigelb> I got hit with "ImportError: No module named convoy.meta"
[03:13] <StevenK> Then your launchpad-dependencies is out of date
[03:19] <nigelb> I thought rf-get would update it. no?
[03:20] <nigelb> I'm on 0.119~lucid1
[03:22] <StevenK> nigelb: rf-get won't update launchpad-dependencies, it's a system package, and rf-get does not have root.
[03:23] <StevenK> nigelb: Is python-convoy installed?
[03:24] <nigelb> StevenK: It wasn't. Started install.
[03:56] <wallyworld> StevenK: archives have a checkArchivePermission method. the lp.View security adaptor checks this, and also checks if the user is subscribed for private archives, is there any reason why the subscription check is not done inside the checkArchivePermission method?
[03:57] <wallyworld> ie irrespective of any other check permission checks, shouldn't subscribers always have access?
[04:08] <StevenK> wallyworld: No, P3A subscribers are not allowed to see the archive
[04:09] <StevenK> They can browse it, but not Archive:+packages
[04:09] <StevenK> Which is why it's a little strange
[04:09] <wallyworld> StevenK: so, i'm looking at person+index
[04:10] <wallyworld> ok, Archive+packages only uses the checkArchivePermission check
[04:10] <wallyworld> but not the p3a subscription one
[04:10] <nigelb> woah
[04:10] <nigelb> it worked I think.
[04:12] <wallyworld> StevenK: Archive+packages uses lp.View permission, which also does the p3a subscriber check
[04:14] <nigelb> hrm. did lp upgrade postgres versions?
[04:14] <nigelb> I have this http://hastebin.com/qepumeveto.vhdl
[04:15] <wallyworld> not sure, you need 9.1
[04:15] <wallyworld> rf won't upgrade it
[04:15] <wallyworld> but launchpad-database-dependencies should i think
[04:15] <nigelb> if only rf told me.
[04:16] <wallyworld> i never use rf
[04:16] <nigelb> ah
[04:16] <wallyworld> but rf should still work nonetheless
[04:16] <nigelb> rf did most of the work.
[04:16] <wallyworld> i haven't looked at the code so cannot really comment
[04:16] <nigelb> The only things I failed doing was upgrading the dependency packages :)
[04:17] <wallyworld> well, that's not too bad
[04:44] <nigelb> Attempt #4.
[04:45] <nigelb> Gah. Failed at the exact same point. I suspect I need to do some magic to start the right version of postgres. But now, I have to start the day job.
[04:46] <StevenK> wallyworld: Actually, I might be wrong. We may allow Archive:+packages, but want to forbid subscribers from copying packages out using +copy-packages
[04:46] <wallyworld> right, that makes more sense
[04:47] <StevenK> nigelb: Do you have time to pastebin the error?
[04:50] <nigelb> StevenK: I pastebin'd it earlier. http://hastebin.com/qepumeveto.vhdl
[04:51] <StevenK> nigelb: You're still using 8.4?
[04:52] <nigelb> StevenK: I installed 9.1, but I suspect it's not yet running. I dont want to break it just before I start work since I need PG for work.
[04:53] <StevenK> nigelb: Ah, that could be a problem, since the LP setup scripts sort of destroy other databases
[04:55] <nigelb> StevenK: I suspected as much :)
[05:08] <stub> You want to use the LXC environment I think
[05:09] <nigelb> I'm on lucid > <
[05:18] <StevenK> Then you want to upgrade to Precise, and create an Lucid LXC for LP and another for $work? :-)
[05:19] <nigelb> Yeah, that's the eventual plan.
[05:20] <StevenK> lpsetup in the LP PPA will create a Lucid LXC for LP very easily
[05:20] <nigelb> The trouble is upgrading.
[05:20] <nigelb> My harddisk has no more space.
[05:20] <nigelb> so I need to get a new one first before I upgrade.
[05:22] <lifeless> nigelb: or delete crap :)
[05:22] <nigelb> lifeless: I've deleted most of the crap I don't want.
[05:23] <nigelb> Everything that's left, I do want :)
[05:23] <StevenK> Oh bleh, everyone knows /usr isn't important
[05:24] <StevenK> Or /lib
[05:24] <nigelb> I deleted a ton of Lp branches.
[05:24] <nigelb> I had all the ones I worked on lying around :)
[05:27] <nigelb> I'm hoping to get a 1TB harddisk this month.
[05:27] <nigelb> That should clear up significant amounts of space.
[05:29]  * StevenK is still waiting for a du to scare nigelb with
[05:37] <StevenK> steven@undermined:~/launchpad/lp-branches% du -sh .
[05:37] <StevenK> 63G	.
[05:39] <nigelb> o_O
[05:50] <StevenK> Can we destroy delayed copies yet?
[05:53] <StevenK> Hahaha
[05:53] <StevenK> lp-oops is broken
[05:54] <nigelb> so, are lp-oops erros logged with lp-oops-oops? ;)
[05:55] <lifeless> nigelb: yes
[05:55] <StevenK> The OOPS is useless
[05:55] <nigelb> ha!
[05:55] <StevenK> TemplateDoesNotExist: 500.html
[05:56] <StevenK> So it's an ISE
[05:56] <StevenK> Thanks for the content, you useless piece of crap, Django
[05:57] <lifeless> thats fixed in trunk
[05:58] <StevenK> I'm sure lp-oops is getting updated

[06:44] <wgrant> wallyworld: The last index is not useful
[06:45] <wgrant> Well, it would be useful if we wanted more than about 20% of the rows in the query, but we don't
[07:06] <wallyworld> wgrant: the final query would use it, no?
[07:07] <wallyworld> since we just order by date, id
[07:08] <wallyworld> and on the individual pages, we do return all matching rows
[07:08] <wallyworld> not just the top 5
[07:11] <wgrant> wallyworld: "all matching rows" == 75
[07:11] <wallyworld> huh?
[07:11] <wallyworld> the individual pages load all matching records
[07:11] <wallyworld> and then batch them
[07:11] <wallyworld> i think you are referring to the other query to load the ids
[07:12] <wgrant> We don't ever load all matching records unless we're on the last batch, do we?
[07:12] <wallyworld> we do - the 3 individual pages for maintained, uploaded etc
[07:13] <wgrant> They're in batches of 75
[07:13] <wallyworld> a summary is shown on the related software overview page
[07:13] <wallyworld> but the whole result set needs to be ordered, right?
[07:13] <wallyworld> so that the batches can be calculated
[07:13] <wgrant> But we only need to calculate the batches up to the current position
[07:14] <wgrant> So if I'm on the first page, I only need to load until I have 75 records to show
[07:14] <wgrant> I don't need to grab all 30000
[07:14] <wallyworld> but wouldn't the load be done suing the index
[07:14] <wallyworld> otherwise how would it efficently know what to load
[07:14] <wallyworld> since we are odering by date
[07:15] <wgrant> But we're filtering by creator/maintainer at that point
[07:15] <wallyworld> so we only grab 75, but we need to know which 75
[07:15] <wgrant> That's why we have the creator- and maintainer-prefixed indices
[07:15] <wallyworld> no, not there we arent
[07:15] <wallyworld> at that point, we are filtering by id in(....)
[07:16] <wallyworld> we filter by creator etc to figure out which ids to include in the final result set
[07:16] <wgrant> And that bit is only ever called with 75 items
[07:16] <wgrant> Because the final set is known by then
[07:16] <wgrant> We just have to load them
[07:16] <wallyworld> only the ids
[07:16] <wallyworld> and not the order
[07:16] <wgrant> Sure
[07:16] <wallyworld> so select * from sourcepackagerelease where id in (...) order by date desc
[07:17] <wallyworld> why doesn't that need an index?
[07:17] <wgrant> But how can the sort index be used for that?
[07:17] <wgrant> It's not what needs an index.
[07:17] <wgrant> It's a matter of what *can* be indexed
[07:17] <wallyworld> an index on date can be used
[07:17] <wgrant> How?
[07:17] <wgrant> sourcepackagerelease has more than 1.5 million rows
[07:17] <wallyworld> to efficiently communicate the order to traverse in
[07:18] <wgrant> Indices don't work that way
[07:18] <wgrant> In any database :)
[07:18] <wgrant> An index on (dateuploaded DESC, id) is useful for sorting in some situations
[07:18] <wallyworld> so you sating sorting doesn;t use indices?
[07:18] <wgrant> But in this case we'd have to traverse 1.5 million index tuples to pull out 75 of them
[07:18] <wgrant> Which is entirely not worth it
[07:19] <wgrant> It would never be silly enough to use an index for that sort
[07:19] <wallyworld> why? we would just traverse the first 75 in order
[07:19] <wgrant> Huh, how?
[07:19] <wgrant> We have IDs
[07:19] <wallyworld> since the index is ordered by date
[07:19] <wgrant> We know the IDs we want
[07:19] <wgrant> How can we efficiently look that up in the index?
[07:20] <wallyworld> well we may have 10000 ids
[07:20] <wgrant> Even if we have 10000, the density is only <0.01 still
[07:20] <wallyworld> i guess it could ignore the index and traverse all the ids
[07:20] <wgrant> If we were to force it to use the sort index, it would have to traverse 1.5 million tuples to find 75
[07:21] <wallyworld> why?
[07:21] <wgrant> If it doesn't use the index, it can do 75 index lookups and sort in memory
[07:21] <wallyworld> the index gices the order
[07:21] <wgrant> Think about the physical layout of the index
[07:21] <wgrant> The index allows us to find a tuple based on its dateuploaded *and* its id
[07:22] <wgrant> Or to traverse tuples in (dateuploaded DESC, id) order
[07:22] <wallyworld> which is what the query is asking for
[07:22] <wallyworld> so it just has to walk the index
[07:22] <wallyworld> 75 records at a time
[07:22] <wgrant> huh?
[07:23] <wgrant> We know the IDs of the 75 records that we need
[07:23] <wallyworld> but not the date order
[07:23] <wallyworld> so we have 100000 ids but don't know the order to present them in
[07:23] <wgrant> Sure, but how does "75 records at a time" come into it?
[07:23] <wallyworld> that's the batch size
[07:23] <wgrant> We don't have 100000 IDs
[07:23] <wgrant> We have 75
[07:23] <wgrant> We partitioned early on, didn't we?
[07:24] <wallyworld> the rs.countz() may be 100000
[07:24] <wgrant> Because we read in IDs in date order, until we had 75 unique ones
[07:24] <wallyworld> no, you are confusing the 2 queries
[07:24] <wallyworld> we did the limit to 5 unique ones
[07:24] <wallyworld> nbecause that's what the overview page shows
[07:25] <wgrant> Then +ppa-packages shows batches of 75 unique ones
[07:25] <wallyworld> but the individual pages show everything
[07:25] <wallyworld> yes, out of say 100000
[07:25] <wallyworld> so it has to know which 75 to load at a time
[07:25] <wallyworld> so it has to have them ordered
[07:25] <wgrant> The first query filters by creator or maintainer, and crawls back in time until it finds 75 unique ones
[07:25] <wgrant> This is always filtering by person, so it can use the creator- or maintainer-prefixed index
[07:25] <wallyworld> no it doesn't
[07:26] <wgrant> Then, once it has those 75 IDs, it does a second query to load the SPRs
[07:26] <wallyworld> it doesn't stop at 75
[07:26] <wgrant> Oh?
[07:26] <wallyworld> because the batching is done at the view level
[07:26] <wgrant> 202	+ if max_results and len(ids) >= max_results:
[07:26] <wallyworld> yes, max results is 5 and optional
[07:26] <wallyworld> max results is used for the overview page sunnaries
[07:27] <wallyworld> to show 5 from each list
[07:27] <wgrant> Ah, well then this will probably always time out
[07:27] <wallyworld> but the invidual pages don't use max_results
[07:27] <wgrant> There's no point having the indexed sort if you're just going to load the entire set anyway
[07:27] <wallyworld> only the ids
[07:27] <wgrant> The whole problem with the query is that it ends up loading the whole set
[07:28] <wallyworld> not the recordds, just the ids
[07:28] <wallyworld> and then the outer query is batched
[07:28] <wgrant> That's irrelevant; it's still considering ~100000 more tuples than is required
[07:28] <wallyworld> so an indidual person can have 100000 ppas?
[07:29] <wallyworld> because the ids are filtered
[07:29] <wallyworld> to match the creator/maintainer etc
[07:29] <wallyworld> only only those matching ones go to be used in the outer query
[07:31] <wgrant> 100000 SPRs? Sure.
[07:32] <wallyworld> well, the only alternative it to implement a custom batcher up in the view layer
[07:33] <wallyworld> which can be done
[07:34] <wallyworld> wgrant: is the current implementation worth trying? it won't be worse than what's there
[07:35] <wgrant> wallyworld: It is strictly worse than what's there
[07:35] <wgrant> We're no longer just asking postgres to consider every related row
[07:35] <wgrant> We're asking it to return bits of them to Python
[07:35] <wgrant> In terms of O(disk accesses) it's no worse, but there's an extra constant multiplier there :)
[07:36] <wallyworld> ok, there's no choice then, but to move the code
[07:36] <wallyworld> to a batcher
[07:36] <wgrant> Right
[07:37] <wallyworld> there will still be issues
[07:37] <wgrant> Right, there is great potential for pathological cases
[07:37] <wallyworld> if the batches are not traversed sequentually
[07:37] <wgrant> Oh?
[07:37] <wallyworld> if someobe url hacks
[07:38] <wgrant> I'm not seeing the issue
[07:38] <wallyworld> the relationship to records loaded to batches in not defined
[07:38] <wgrant> (though ideally you'd use a derivative of SRF here, which doesn't support URL hacking anyway)
[07:38] <wallyworld> so it would need to walk the records sequentuially
[07:38] <wallyworld> instead of using offset and limit
[07:39] <wallyworld> as one would do for a normal query
[07:39] <wgrant> Right, that's the problem with an offset-based batcher
[07:39] <wgrant> Although I guess due to deduping even a range-based duper would have to traverse the whole lot
[07:39] <wallyworld> yep
[07:40] <wgrant> Still, this will make the page suck less until we can denorm it properly
[07:40] <wgrant> And the MP you have is strictly worse than the status quo
[07:40] <wallyworld> and as someone clicks through the batches, stuff needs to be retained in memory
[07:41] <wgrant> Not retained in memory as such
[07:41] <wgrant> But subsequent batches will also have to calculate all previous batches
[07:41] <wallyworld> or if it is retained, then notr really
[07:41] <wgrant> How can we retain it?
[07:42] <wallyworld> i session variable
[07:42] <wgrant> Hah
[07:44] <wallyworld> wgrant: so if someone is many batches into scrolling through the table, then each next click presents more and more work for the batcher
[07:44] <wgrant> Sure
[07:44] <wallyworld> with a large number of records, it surely will timeout
[07:44] <wgrant> And that's something we probably have to live with until we fix the schema
[07:45] <wgrant> It's relatively rare that someone will go deep enough that it will be a problem
[07:45] <wgrant> And it's completely not worth hacking something into the session for this temporary fix
[07:45] <wallyworld> i will have to handle Last properly though
[07:45] <wallyworld> and Prev
[07:46] <wgrant> They'll work fine as long as the user has a small number of uploads
[07:47] <wallyworld> why don't i just say fuck it, there's no need to order by date the records on the individual pages
[07:47] <wgrant> They have to be ordered somehow
[07:47] <wgrant> Or batching will not work
[07:47] <wgrant> It's not the order that's the problem; it's the distinct on
[07:48] <wallyworld> yes, i'm just wonderong out loud if we can avoid that
[07:48] <wgrant> If we dump the distinct on then the entire problem becomes trivial
[07:48] <wallyworld> we need the distinct on to shw the latest 5 for the overview page
[07:48] <wgrant> Why?
[07:49] <wallyworld> just because
[07:49] <wgrant> By the current definition of the latest 5 we need the distinct
[07:49] <wallyworld> that's how it is put together
[07:49] <wgrant> But by the current definition of +ppa-packages we need it there too
[07:49] <wallyworld> propably, i ws just wondering out loud
[07:50] <wallyworld> oh well, custom batcher it is i guess
[07:51] <wallyworld> wgrant: so what's the "normal" number of ppas a person would have on that page?
[07:51] <wgrant> s/ppas/packages/?
[07:51] <wallyworld> yes
[07:51] <wgrant> Let's see
[07:51] <wallyworld> cutis has 38 i think
[07:52] <wgrant> Curtis is at the low end :)
[07:52] <wgrant> The most is probably about 250k
[07:52] <wgrant> But that's exceptionally high
[07:52] <wallyworld> so my implemention was premised on it only being a few 100 at most
[07:52] <wallyworld> wow 250k!
[07:52] <wgrant> Your implementation is basically what postgres chooses today, except slower.
[07:54] <wgrant> The top 100 ranges from 2k to 220k
[07:55] <wallyworld> ok
[07:57] <wgrant> It may almost be worth just adding a new table maintained by garbo to make all these pages trivial
[07:57] <StevenK> And Archive size?
[07:58] <StevenK> Since I'm still sure you'll murder me for two columns on archive
[07:59] <wgrant> Well
[07:59] <wgrant> A similar approach is probably useful there
[07:59] <wgrant> archive already has a tonne of related stats columns, and I haven't worked out whether they're worth it yet
[08:00] <wgrant> They probably are
[08:00] <wgrant> s/worth it/worth having in the main table/
[08:00] <wallyworld> there's all sorts of stuff that can be denormed in the spr, spph area isn't there?
[08:01] <wgrant> Those are the two big ones
[08:01] <wallyworld> i should just finish this branch though
[08:02] <StevenK> wgrant: It's clear we need a schema change. Even pulling the rows from LFC is 2.8seconds
[08:02] <wgrant> StevenK: Certainly, we need a schema change
[08:02] <wgrant> Calculating all this stuff live is insane
[08:02] <wgrant> It's just not clear what the detail of that schema change is
[08:02] <wgrant> For +ppa-packages and co it's much clearer and simpler
[08:03] <StevenK> The two I can think of are Archive.{source,binary}_size or Archive.size as an array
[08:03] <wgrant> It makes no sense as an array
[08:03] <wallyworld> maybe i should just do the denorm then
[08:03] <wgrant> wallyworld: Or decide to not do the DISTINCT ON
[08:04] <wallyworld> would that matter? we would get dupes then
[08:04] <wgrant> It would change the definition of the page
[08:04] <wgrant> It's not clear whether it would be changing it in a problematic fashion
[08:04] <wallyworld> from what i gather, we are not sure what the page is used for
[08:04] <wallyworld> or who uses it
[08:05] <wgrant> We know sort of
[08:05] <wgrant> Anyway, the page can retain its current definition in a performant manner if we do the denorm, otherwise it probably cannot. It can be made performant without the denorm if we eliminate the distinctness
[08:06] <wallyworld> and does that "sort of" indicate we couild remove the distinct on?
[08:06] <wgrant> I don't think removing the distinct on would be a problem
[08:06] <wgrant> It's probably more confusing than anything else
[08:06] <wgrant> We've had at least one bug filed about that aspect of the behaviour, although I think it was invalided.
[08:07] <wallyworld> we would need to ensure we display a distinguishing piece of data for each record
[08:07] <wallyworld> let's discuss tomorrow
[08:07] <wgrant> Indeed
[08:07] <wgrant> The denorm is quite simple, if we opt to do it
[08:08] <wgrant> Instantaneous updates are not mandatory, so we can just do it in garbo-frequently
[08:08] <wallyworld> it would be nice if it also has line of sight for other fixes
[08:08] <wallyworld> StevenK: i replied to your mp comment - do you agree?
[08:08] <wgrant> Oh, crap, that MP
[08:08]  * wgrant glances
[08:08] <wallyworld> lol, you have too much on your plate
[08:09] <wallyworld> ah, trick or treaters, better get some lollies for them
[08:09] <wgrant> crazy qlders
[08:09] <StevenK> I'd still prefer an override policy that backs onto UnknownOverridePolicy
[08:09] <wgrant> Sure
[08:09] <wgrant> That's the ideal solution
[08:10] <wgrant> find_and_apply_overrides should be replaced by override policy calls
[08:10] <wgrant> But Ian quite reasonably wants to be done before the heat death of the universe :)
[08:10] <wallyworld> yes, but i thought we agreed that could wait
[08:10] <StevenK> Like override policies are hard to right :-P
[08:10] <StevenK> Sigh, write
[08:11] <StevenK> Didn't I write all of the current ones?
[08:11] <wgrant> I think so
[08:11] <StevenK> wallyworld: Then add an XX
[08:11] <StevenK> XXX
[08:12] <StevenK> Obviously, typing is HARD
[08:12] <wallyworld> ok, i'll take another look, maybe it can be done easily
[08:12] <wgrant> This fix is nearly correct; let's not overcomplicate it now with it so close to done
[08:12] <wgrant> This is a useful incremental improvement
[08:12] <wgrant> Which doesn't break anything
[08:13] <wallyworld> what did i miss?
[08:13] <wgrant> You shouldn't be overriding the section, just the component
[08:13] <wallyworld> is there an existing bug for the XXX i would add?
[08:14] <StevenK> Not sure, but it would be Low
[08:14] <wallyworld> ah ok, i saw somewhere else was overrding the secion
[08:14] <wallyworld> why does that other place do the secion but not here?
[08:15] <wgrant> wallyworld: We want to inherit the section of a previous publication, because for a particularly binary it doesn't usually change
[08:15] <wallyworld> but not if we get the component from a source publication
[08:15] <wgrant> eg. libfoo is in libs, libfoo-dev is in libdevel
[08:15] <wgrant> It's a different dimension to component
[08:16] <wgrant> component is archive policy, section is just package categorisation
[08:16] <wallyworld> ok, i have no clue about the data model
[08:16] <wallyworld> thanks
[08:16] <wallyworld> i'll fix that bit
[08:16] <wgrant> It makes sense to inherit the archive policy from the source, but not the package category (since the binaries usually specify a sensible section, and the section differs between binaries)
[08:17] <wallyworld> ok, makes sense
[08:17] <wgrant> The code structure is a bit terrible, but it was already awful so I can hardly object on that basis
[08:17] <wallyworld> i didn't realise section was categorisation
[08:18] <wallyworld> i tweaked an existing method
[08:18] <wgrant> Cish libraries are in libs, X stuff is x11, Python libraries are in python, etc.
[08:18] <wgrant> Right, but that method is called in an existing thing to handle various existing override cases
[08:18] <wgrant> So it's slightly ugly
[08:18] <wallyworld> yes, but it provided reusable code
[08:18] <wallyworld> so i just hijacked it a bit
[08:19] <wgrant> Right
[08:19] <wallyworld> keeps loc count low :-)
[08:19]  * wgrant needs to head out for a while now... hopefully StevenK can approve it, otherwise I can in a bit
[08:19] <wallyworld> thanks again
[08:19] <wallyworld> wgrant: going trick or treating :-)
[08:19] <wgrant> Heh
[08:19] <wgrant> Not since I lived in Canada :)
[08:20] <wallyworld> it's getting bigger here
[08:20] <wallyworld> i don't mind it cause it's pagan and celtic in orign
[08:21] <StevenK> And it helps you're a Scrooge who hates Christmas :-)
[08:21] <wallyworld> yep, that's me
[08:21] <wallyworld> i hate anything to do with organised religion
[08:21] <wallyworld> ewspecially since they stole Christmas from the pagans
[08:22] <wallyworld> cause it was originally Saturnalia
[08:46] <adeuring> good morning
[08:53] <deryck> Morning, adeuring
[08:53] <adeuring> hi deryck
[11:07] <czajkowski> cjwatson: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1073492  is this down to some of the work you've done recently ?
[11:07] <_mup_> Bug #1073492: Sync changelog doesn't include all changelogs between release version and new Debian version <derivation> <Launchpad itself:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1073492 >
[11:10] <tumbleweed> czajkowski: that's not a launchpad bug
[11:12] <tumbleweed> oh, it's not what I thought it was
[11:12] <czajkowski> :)
[11:13]  * tumbleweed is glad to see syncpackage getting it right, for a change  :)
[11:19] <cjwatson> czajkowski: not sure, would probably need to spend more concentration than is typically available during a conference to figure that out
[11:19] <cjwatson> czajkowski: I don't recall changing anything around there *intentionally*
[20:13] <jcsackett> sinzui: can you review https://code.launchpad.net/~jcsackett/launchpad/invalid-product-names/+merge/132405
[20:14] <sinzui> I will
[20:15] <jcsackett> thanks.
[20:28] <sinzui> jcsackett, r=me
[20:28] <jcsackett> sinzui: awesome thanks.
[20:29] <sinzui> jcsackett, you might want to look at bug 1055751 again
[20:29] <_mup_> Bug #1055751: Permission denied: "Cannot create '+filediff' viewing diffs on +branch urls <403> <codebrowse> <oops> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1055751 >
[20:29] <sinzui> I think the issue is in translatePath or BranchNamespace where we do not expand or lookup the aliased name
[20:30] <jcsackett> sinzui: ok, happy to take another look at it.
[20:30] <jcsackett> i've got some distance on it now and a bit more knowledge of the domain. :-P
[20:31] <sinzui> jcsackett, We get the error when users are browsing the series alias rather than the 3-part/5-part names that the code you were looking at expects
[20:31] <sinzui> eg lp:launchpad -> lp:~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel
[20:32] <sinzui> jcsackett, I am not feeling well, and I have the added stress of children putting on Halloween costumes. I will send and email summarising my effort to be productive to the squad
[20:33] <jcsackett> sinzui: dig.
[20:57] <diptanuc`> Hi Guys
[20:57] <diptanuc`> Just saw that you guys use Go to power services at canonical. Was interested to talk more about what you do with it.
[21:14] <sinzui> diptanuc`, Launchpad doesn't use Go. JuJu and related cloud tools uses it.
[21:50] <diptanuc`> sinzui: Oh i see, who is the right person to talk to?
[21:50] <diptanuc`> Is there a channel where they hang out?
[21:50] <lifeless> diptanuc`: gustavo niemeyer would be a good choice, in #juju
[21:53] <czajkowski> cr3: ping, trying to work out your issue on https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/212793
[21:54] <cr3> czajkowski: thanks, I'm very curious to understand how to get checkbox-ihv to look like certify-web
[21:54] <wgrant> cr3: Read the paragraph at the top of +sharing
[21:55] <wgrant> On both projects
[21:56] <czajkowski> cr3: I cant see the-ihv but as wgrant says , if you read that area on the +sharing it should become clearer.
[21:56] <cr3> wgrant: yeah, they look different. should I have asked for a proprietary project instead of a private one?
[21:56] <wgrant> cr3: You created an open source project
[21:57] <cr3> wgrant: my mistake, it seems I should've created a proprietary one :(
[21:57] <wgrant> You probably wanted to select Other/Proprietary as the license, which will enable to you use commercial features
[21:57] <wgrant> You can change it on +edit
[21:57] <czajkowski> cr3: is it actually properietary though
[21:57] <czajkowski> or is it thats how you think it should be set up for sharing ?
[21:58] <cr3> czajkowski: it's actually proprietary
[21:59] <czajkowski> ok
[22:00] <wgrant> Right, proprietary features tend to be easier to enable when you configure your project as not just another random open source project :)
[22:04] <wgrant> cr3: Once you've set it to Other/Proprietary you'll get a 30 day trial commercial subscription, and you can set stuff on +sharing
[22:04] <wgrant> You'll need to poke someone (or RT) to get the subscription extended
[22:04] <czajkowski> aka me via<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[22:05] <wgrant> Ah yes, that's the address
[22:05] <czajkowski> wgrant: care to explain https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/212880  to me ?
[22:06] <cr3> czajkowski, wgrant: thanks folks, I'll have another look into this tomorrow
[22:06] <czajkowski> cr3: np
[22:06] <wgrant> czajkowski: Looking
[22:43] <czajkowski> wgrant: thank you
[23:46] <wallyworld> StevenK: i've updated the code to add the XXX etc
[23:57] <StevenK> wallyworld: I was expecting the XXX to be just above the if block you added
[23:58] <wallyworld> StevenK: well, it's the whole method than needs to be refactored
[23:58] <StevenK> Then why is the XXX half-way through it?
[23:58] <wallyworld> it's in the doc at the top
[23:59] <StevenK> Well, the hack is in processUnknownFile


[00:40] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** wmww opened [pull request #2635](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2635): Split up wayland_base.h
[00:40] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server-
[00:40] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- > Split up mirwayland header and source files. `wayland_base.h` is kept for API stability, but is not used internally. Also refactored `wayland::Resource` a bit to include `client` and `resource` members and null check (rather than the wrappers managing those things).
[07:35] <RAOF> As I mentioned in the 180°-sync, I've set up https://matrix.to/#/#mir-hangout:cooperteam.net as an experimental drop in/drop out permanent voice room if people want to sync up/vibe/be office-ish.
[08:03] <RAOF> Bah! Why must `wl_shm_buffer` handling be so difficult 😠
 "Bah! Why must `wl_shm_buffer..." <- What are you trying to do to it now?!
[08:20] <RAOF> See the review in https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2621
[08:20] <RAOF>  * See the review in [PR 2621](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2621)
[08:21]  * RAOF heads out to collect Zoë
[08:28] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** AlanGriffiths opened [issue #2636](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2636): FTBFS: ppa:mir-team/dev... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/64aa4d44553d130447533f38fc1fdf8e7b5a02c4>)
[09:12] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** AlanGriffiths opened [pull request #2637](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2637): Revert "Merge #2634"... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/5b17946543d05d47508f793599f9d165646faf30>)
[09:14] <alan_g[m]> Saviq ^
[09:14] <Saviq> Already ACKed
[09:15] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** AlanGriffiths edited [pull request #2637](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2637): Revert "Merge #2634"
[09:16] <Saviq> (too late, the "Fixes:..." won't get into the merge commit message since bors already did `staging`)
[09:17] <Saviq> I just had Miriway run away on screen wakeup, 80 threads at ` __futex_abstimed_wait_common64` https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/2xHMH2Jd2m/
[09:17] <alan_g[m]> You're too fast for me!
[09:18] <alan_g[m]> I wonder what is threadbombing it
[09:21] <alan_g[m]> Saviq can you handle today's "... contains outdated Ubuntu packages"? I want to review the Frame PR and then look at Ogra's xvfb problem
[09:21] <Saviq> Will do
[10:03] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** bors[bot] merged [pull request #2637](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2637): Revert "Merge #2634"
[10:03] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** bors[bot] closed [issue #2636](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2636): FTBFS: ppa:mir-team/dev
[11:34] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** Saviq opened [pull request #2638](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2638): ci: handle OSK snap, too
[11:35] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** Saviq assigned  to [pull request #2638](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2638): ci: handle OSK snap, too
[11:42] <alan_g[m]> Saviq, I'm starting to wonder if we should pull the snap management into its own repository
[11:43] <Saviq> Not a bad idea
[11:56] <Saviq> There you go:
[11:56] <Saviq> https://github.com/MirServer/mir-ci/actions/runs/3052586164
[11:57] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** Saviq edited [pull request #2638](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2638): ci: move snap processing to MirServer/mir-ci
[11:57] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** Saviq requested a review from AlanGriffiths for [pull request #2638](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2638): ci: move snap processing to MirServer/mir-ci
[13:13] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** bors[bot] merged [pull request #2638](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2638): ci: move snap processing to MirServer/mir-ci
[14:23] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** Saviq opened [issue #2639](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2639): Shutdown crash when OSK is running... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/3d477655f6be60ae7eab66ff2adc9ea9bf8607ff>)
[14:32] <Saviq>  * https://github.com/MirServer/mir-ci/actions/
[16:14] <Saviq> Have a good evening all o/
[16:58] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** wmww opened [pull request #2640](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2640): Only call extension filter once per app per extension
[16:58] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server-
[16:58] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- > Updated version of #2211. Fixes #2209.
[17:44] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** bors[bot] merged [pull request #2622](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2622): Verify serials for move/resize requests


[00:08] <yuriy> nixternal: you gotta use the button tha appears on the top left when you hover
[00:19] <nixternal> ahh, that is kind of annoying
[00:40] <poetaa> Hola alguien habla castellano?
[01:43] <CPrgmSwR2> nixternal: any status on getting kde4-beta4 working?
[02:02] <nixternal> CPrgmSwR2: what do you mean?
[02:03] <CPrgmSwR2> as in getting kde4 to compile
[02:03] <CPrgmSwR2> and how will you know when the system is fixed to allow kde4 to compile
[02:03] <nixternal> I won't know...I am guessing they will let Riddell know
[02:08] <Tonio_> jdong: got a fix for the issue ?
[02:08] <Tonio_> jdong: feel free to ping me if you fix this one
[02:09] <Tonio_> jdong: otherwise I'll rty to fix it myseld...
[02:16] <jdong> Tonio_: bug #163426 ready to sponsor :)
[02:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 163426 in ktorrent "KTorrent 2.2.3 crasher" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163426
[03:55] <nixternal_> booyahkah
[04:10] <jdong> Tonio_: hey, did you get my last message about the LP# for the KT fix?
[06:02] <TiMiDo> anyone in here?
[06:08] <Hobbsee> no
[09:50] <mhb> morning
[10:21] <fifoo> all, I've got trouble building kdelibs because of soprano. I've built it and installed it from svn (kdesupport) but cmake is still trying to access the /usr/include/soprano where I would like it to point to my local copy (in the kdedev user's dir). I feel like I should modify FindSoprano.cmake but not too sure what. Any idea?
[10:21] <Tm_T> fifoo: #kde4-devel ?
[10:24] <fifoo> Ta. Will try there
[11:30] <_StefanS_> brightness up/down works with latest nvidia beta drivers from kde-power-manager and through /proc/acpi/video
[11:31] <mhb> it still doesn't work here, though
[11:32] <_StefanS_> mhb: which method?
[11:33] <_StefanS_> mhb: echo 30 | sudo tee /proc/acpi/video/VID1/LCD0/brightness works here, as well as the kde-power-manager sliders.
[11:33] <_StefanS_> mhb: I havent tried on batteries
[11:34] <mhb> well I mean the brightness up/down keys
[11:34] <mhb> otherwise it works via g-p-m
[11:34] <_StefanS_> mhb: yep, same here then.
[11:34] <_StefanS_> mhb: I was just wonder how the triggering of the brightness works.. is it kmilo?
[11:36] <_StefanS_> mhb: I mean what is triggered from acpi_fakekey .. ?
[11:36] <mhb> yes, it is kmilo... Lure was playing with it, I don't know much about it, and debugging it is also nigh to impossible
[11:37] <mhb> because it somehow integrates into kded, cannot be launched standalone, and cannot be forced on the foreground, always detaches
[11:37] <_StefanS_> uhm great..
[11:40] <_StefanS_> Lure: you there?
[12:12] <jpatrick> apachelogger: ping
[12:12] <apachelogger> jpatrick: pong
[12:12] <jpatrick> apachelogger: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~jpatrick/inject.rb
[12:17] <apachelogger> jpatrick: what are you trying to do?
[12:17] <jpatrick> apachelogger: I was bored, and needed something to do :)
[12:18] <apachelogger> jpatrick: I don't get the functionallity :P
[12:32] <mhb> jpatrick: help me fix Dolphin then :o)
[12:32] <mhb> err, D3lphin
[12:33] <jpatrick> mhb: I'll more likely break it more
[12:33] <Lure> _StefanS_: hi
[12:34] <mhb> jpatrick: hehe :o) it has got plenty of untriaged bugs, too
[12:34] <_StefanS_> Lure: hep.. I was wondering how those brightness up/down are triggered.. wasn't it through kmilo ? Thing is that nvidia drivers work now with hal and /proc/acpi
[12:34] <_StefanS_> Lure: atleast on my quadro fx 570m
[12:35] <Lure> _StefanS_: kernel maps key to keycode, then we map keycode to xkeysym and kmilo generic set KGlobalAccel for xkeysym
[12:35] <_StefanS_> ah yes
[12:35] <Lure> _StefanS_: the problem is that what works for other keys it does not for brightness :-(
[12:36] <_StefanS_> remember that whole thing now..
[12:36] <_StefanS_> neverming then
[12:36] <Lure> _StefanS_: we did not come far as it is not clear where the problem is: xev reports proper xkeysym, dcop to powermanager works too (for battery key for example), so it is something with KGlobalAccel
[12:37] <_StefanS_> ok, I wont have time to look at it anyways, just couldn't remember how it worked
[12:39] <Lure> _StefanS_: test packages for kdebase/kdeutils are in my ppa, but they do not work
[12:40] <Lure> _StefanS_: debdiff is here: http://muse.19inch.net/~lure/gutsy/kdebase.debdiff
[12:40] <_StefanS_> Lure: lets just leave it for now, maybe we find out something in the future..
[12:40] <Lure> _StefanS_: http://muse.19inch.net/~lure/gutsy/kdeutils.debdiff
[12:40] <_StefanS_> Lure: volume up/down still doesn't work either
[12:41] <_StefanS_> Lure: worked on my t60p , but not t61p.
[12:41] <_StefanS_> wierd..
[12:45] <Tonio_> jdong: no I didn't get that one
[12:45] <Tonio_> jdong: can you email it to me ?
[12:45] <Tonio_> jdong: ah ! gotcha
[12:46] <Tonio_> jdong: I'll upload today
[12:49] <_StefanS_> hey Tonio_
[13:24] <Tonio__> _StefanS_: hi ;)
[13:33] <nixternal> mornin' from the wonderful city of chicago, where politics and wind go together! :)
[13:47] <mhb> hi Tonio__
[13:47] <mhb> you've got another security issue with kdesudo
[14:22] <Tonio__> mhb: which one ?
[14:23] <mhb> bug 163417
[14:23] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 163417 in kdesudo "kdesudo+dolphin leads to command execution vulnerability" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163417
[14:32] <Tonio__> mhb: , hum true that, I'l fix that one
[14:40] <ryanakca> mhb: how goes the new icon?
[14:41] <begert> hey folks, i wrote bug 163457 last night and was wondering if I could get some help triaging it?
[14:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 163457 in kdebase "Mouseover effects leave junk on Desktop." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163457
[14:45] <mhb> ryanakca: http://mhb.ath.cx/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/updater-icon1.png
[14:49] <mhb> ryanakca: I'm no good as an artist, and I have been influenced by yestreday's discussion with the folks here, so I'm back at coding
[14:49] <mhb> bug triage, to be exact
[15:12] <ryanakca> mhb: ah :)
[15:13]  * mhb wonders if ryanakca read yesterday's talk
[15:13]  * ryanakca wishes one could learn C++ in a day...
[15:13] <ryanakca> nope
[15:14] <mhb> ryanakca: if you know OOP and C, it's possible
[15:14] <ryanakca> mhb: I know OOP and python :)
[15:29] <apachelogger> jpatrick: to get a package from debian in, ASAP, I have to file a sync request, right?
[15:36] <ryanakca> jpatrick: Hey... know if there's a french translation of the leaflet or if I should start translating?
[15:36] <jpatrick> ryanakca: I could send you the svg
[15:37] <jpatrick> apachelogger: "requestsync --help" :)
[15:38]  * apachelogger presses the enter key :D
[15:38] <jpatrick> ..if you have ubuntu-dev-tools installed
[15:38] <ryanakca> jpatrick: please...
[15:38] <apachelogger> http://pastebin.kubuntu-de.org/82028
[15:38] <apachelogger> so not good
[15:38] <ryanakca><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:39]  * ryanakca wonders if there's a way of importing SVGs into rosetta for translation
[15:41] <jpatrick> ryanakca: sent
[15:41] <jpatrick> ryanakca: you will need the ttf-ubuntu-title in hardy for accents
[15:42] <jpatrick> apachelogger: weird..
[15:42] <apachelogger> requestsync -n -s libprojectm hardy
[15:42] <jpatrick> you missed the version at the end
[15:44] <apachelogger> jpatrick: [basever] - the square brackets make it appear optional to me
[15:45] <jpatrick> well I'm stuffed
[15:45]  * apachelogger starts crying
[15:46] <jpatrick> I think since it's NEW in Debian it will do it automagically..
[15:48] <apachelogger> *shrug*
[15:48]  * apachelogger starts hoping
[15:50] <ryanakca> jpatrick: in hardy... where...?
[15:50] <jpatrick> universe
[15:50] <ryanakca> apachelogger: no need to request syncs untill way down the road... like... January-ish...
[15:50] <ryanakca> !schedule
[15:50] <ubotu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
[15:51] <apachelogger> ryanakca: ok
[15:52] <jpatrick> ryanakca: hmm, I requested one yesterday for k3b-i18n
[15:52] <jpatrick> time for tea
[15:53] <ryanakca> apachelogger, jpatrick: don't need to untill December 13th, iirc. Until then, it's automatic
[16:05] <fifoo> hey guys, anything I could help with? Just compiled all the libs. Ready to go :)!
[16:06] <apachelogger> jpatrick: what's the problem with ksquirrel?
[16:06] <jpatrick> apachelogger: you got it to package?
[16:06] <apachelogger> nah, I'm at it right now
[16:06] <apachelogger> -libs is running through pbuilder
[16:07] <jpatrick> well it was some time ago, but the header files had some problems
[16:07] <begert__> hey fifoo
[16:08] <apachelogger> jpatrick: well, crappy buildsystem
[16:08] <apachelogger> would need a COPYING.LIBS anyway
[16:08] <apachelogger> for the admin dir
[16:09] <fifoo> hey begert__
[16:09] <ryanakca> fifoo: ummm... you could attempt merges? or have fun bug triaging...
[16:10] <begert__> could help me triage my bug :P
[16:11] <ryanakca> begert__: seriously? Sure... Have you read the documentation / bug triage HOWTO?
[16:12] <begert__> i think i has
[16:12] <begert__> Bug #163457
[16:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 163457 in kdebase "Mouseover effects leave junk on Desktop." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163457
[16:12] <fifoo> bug triaging? does taht involve fixing the bug eventually :)? I'm up for a bit of coding
[16:12] <ryanakca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage
[16:12] <ryanakca> fifoo: only if you want to fix it... otherwise you just get all the information required out of the reporter so that someone else can fix it...
[16:13] <apachelogger> jpatrick: somehow I think that app is not worth the work -.-
[16:13] <ryanakca> apachelogger: ksquirrel... isn't that some image app?
[16:13] <apachelogger> KSquirrel is an image viewer for KDE with disk navigator, file tree, multiple directory view, thumbnails, extended thumbnails, dynamic format support, DCOP interface, KEXIF and KIPI plugins support.
[16:13] <jpatrick> apachelogger: I told ya :)
[16:14] <ryanakca> apachelogger: hehe... I had attempted packaging it a while back...e
[16:14] <apachelogger> jpatrick: well, not from the trouble point of view, but from the I have to create a god damn lib package point of view :P
[16:14] <ryanakca> want what I had so far? iirc, someone also filed a ITP for it a year or so ago
[16:14] <apachelogger> ryanakca: yeah, please<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:17] <ryanakca> apachelogger: hmm... looks like all I have is the libs half
[16:17] <ryanakca> apachelogger: hmm... mind if I just dput it to REVU?
[16:17] <apachelogger> ryanakca: no
[16:17] <ryanakca> (and then you can dget it)
[16:17]  * apachelogger loves dget :D
[16:18]  * ryanakca too :D
[16:18] <ryanakca> uploaded
[16:19] <ryanakca> should show up on the main page within the next 5 minutes...
[16:23] <apachelogger> ryanakca: thanks
[16:23] <ryanakca> jpatrick: did  you do a direct tranlation,  or did you update it a bit for Hardy/etc?
[16:25] <jpatrick> ryanakca: updated and changes a few things (eg. Linux => GNU/Linux
[16:27]  * ryanakca nods :)
[16:28] <jpatrick> and the links to de and es were wrong
[16:30]  * jpatrick should file a bug about it
[16:37] <ryanakca> jpatrick: mind creating a branch under kubuntu-members for the leaflets/other promo material?
[16:37] <jpatrick> I don't see why not :)
[16:38] <ryanakca> poke me when it's created, and I'll commit to it when I'm done :)
[16:46] <emonkey> good evening, I've tryed to compiel KDE 4 but when I try to compile kdelibs it says that soprano is too low. But I've soprano 1.97 :
[16:46] <emonkey> http://pastebin.kubuntu-de.org/82372
[16:47] <jpatrick> emonkey: it's being worked on
[16:47] <jpatrick> ryanakca: uploading now..
[16:47] <emonkey> jpatrick, ok thank you I'll wait :)
[16:49] <jpatrick> ryanakca: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kubuntu-default-settings/kubuntu-promo
[16:52] <ryanakca> jpatrick: Merci :)
[17:09] <jpatrick> ryanakca: now, if only I could get svg's on that merry-christmas thing
[17:25] <jdong> Tonio__: *grr* overnight KTorrent upstream has come up with an alternate fix for the crasher; I'm testing it right now and if it looks good I'll need your help to upload that too :)
[17:32] <jdong> can anyone enlighten me as to why moc in a pbuilder always stalls with Session management error: Could not open network socket
[17:33] <jpatrick> I think it's just making the files
[17:38] <jdong> jpatrick: well the thing is these messages cause like 5 second stalls per file.... KTorrent's compile in pbuilder takes nearly 4x the  time on my fast CPU than a debuild outside chroot
[17:38] <jpatrick> same with me :>
[17:39] <jdong> I'm just curious (1) what it's trying to open a socket to (2) How to stop that
[17:41] <ryanakca> jpatrick: merry christmas thing?
[17:42] <jpatrick> ryanakca: http://ubuntuusers.de/ikhaya/799/
[17:47]  * jdong takes deep breath and tests if ktorrent patch works
[17:51] <jdong> whoooo!
[17:51] <jdong> so... anyone up to sponsor a ktorrent package? *grin*
[17:52] <jdong> http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/motu/ktorrent_2.2.3-0ubuntu3.dsc
[17:53] <jpatrick> I would but I'm not core-dev :(
[17:53] <jdong> ryanakca: you talked within the past 10 minutes, so I think that's volunteering :)
[17:53] <jdong> hehe
[17:54] <jdong> (before long, all channels will go silent as soon as I join)
[17:56] <jdong> hey Tonio_ , you about? :)
[18:18] <eljefe_> is there a website where I can see the reasons for package updates?
[18:23] <jdong> eljefe_: packages.ubuntu.com search for your package and you'll be able to find changelog links
[18:23] <jdong> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/packagename should also provide similar info
[18:23] <eljefe_> by date, do you know, jdong?
[18:24] <jdong> updates by date?
[18:24] <eljefe_> yeah
[18:24] <jdong> then you want the gutsy-changes mailing list archive
[18:24] <jdong> lists.ubuntu.com
[18:24] <eljefe_> ps page not found for that link
[18:24] <jdong> find the -changes corresponding to the distro you're looking for
[18:24] <eljefe_> thats exactly what i want, thanks!
[18:24] <jdong> eljefe_: replace packagename with the actual name of the package :D
[18:24] <jdong> eljefe_: I think seveas also maintains RSS feeds of the -changes archives
[18:25] <eljefe_> even better, thank you
[18:25] <jpatrick> eljefe_: http://media.ubuntu-nl.org/rss/hardy.xml
[18:33] <Tonio_> jdong: feel free to send me the debdiff by email
[18:33] <Tonio_> I will not be in front of the computer toonight
[18:33] <jdong> Tonio_: I've got the dsc @
[18:33] <jdong> Tonio_: I've got the dsc @ http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/motu/ktorrent_2.2.3-0ubuntu3.dsc
[18:33] <jdong> it's ready to upload, build tested here in pbuilder
[18:34] <Tonio_> jdong: nothing to do with the dsc :)
[18:34] <Tonio_> I need the diff.gz or a debdiff
[18:34] <jdong> pfft you and imbrandon need to standardize on the format you want from me!
[18:34] <jdong> *generates a debdiff :D*
[18:35] <Tonio_> jdong: super, thanks ;)
[18:35] <jdong> Tonio_: voila http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/motu/ktorrent_2.2.3-0ubuntu3.debdiff
[18:36] <Tonio_> jdong: merci beaucoup
[18:37] <Tonio_> jdong: will upload toonight
[18:38] <jdong> thanks
[20:17] <mhb> hmm, no heated discussions today?
[20:17] <mhb> too bad
[20:18] <coreymon77> lol
[20:28]  * apachelogger thinks we should remove all autohell from upstream and use cmake instead
[20:28] <mhb> apachelogger: Qt is better than GTK (technically), why don't we remove all GTKhell from upstream and use Qt only?
[20:29] <mhb> oh wait, we cannot do that :o)
[20:29] <apachelogger> we cant????
[20:29] <mhb> apachelogger: what I'm trying to say is, except in mathematics, there's always a wrong decision being made and we have to deal with it
[20:30] <apachelogger> everyone in favor of remove *hell with the technical better solution, say "aye", everyone against it say "nay"
[20:30] <mhb> apachelogger: even if you could mathematically prove your suggestion is correct, people would ignore you
[20:30] <apachelogger> because they are all too tired to discuss today :P
[20:31] <mhb> that's how humans work, stubborn, self-centred and stuff
[20:31]  * apachelogger is watching ksquirrel compile
[20:31] <fdoving> once they understand cmake they will all move there .)
[20:31]  * emonkey wants to watch kdelibs compiling but it still dont want to
[20:31] <apachelogger> if autohell would be any slower I might get enough sleep, by using the produced non-productive time
[20:31] <fdoving> hah :)
[20:32] <apachelogger> emonkey: ye probably could just remove the soprano package
[20:32] <fdoving> bbl. tv.
[20:32] <apachelogger> so you only have one soprano version installed
[20:32] <emonkey> apachelogger, if y type soprano --version it shows 1.97 should be the right version already
[20:32] <emonkey> s/y/i/
[20:33] <apachelogger> so you br0ke your build environment
[20:33] <apachelogger> omg!
[20:33] <apachelogger> ksquirrel went wocka -.-
[20:34] <emonkey> apachelogger, I didn't broke it, it's the first time on this machine.... real virgin... ;)
[20:34] <apachelogger> omg
[20:34] <apachelogger> so ye forgot something
[20:36] <emonkey> apachelogger, maybe it's anyway if I try it on my laptop, then I'll have a new KDE compile on it at our speech at linuxday next saturday
[20:36] <emonkey> anyway better
[20:37] <apachelogger> that even will suck big time
[20:37] <apachelogger> s/even/event
[20:38] <emonkey> but we'll see us again and we will get one ot two beer together ... :)
[20:39] <apachelogger> beer ftw!
[20:40] <emonkey> isn't that enough solace?
[20:40] <emonkey> only a cold comfort?
[20:41] <emonkey> come on my brother vom the east coast ... :P
[20:41] <emonkey> s/vom/from/
[20:41] <apachelogger> east coast ftw!
[20:42]  * apachelogger is wondering what packman did to the ksquirrel tarball
[20:42] <jpatrick> apachelogger: you could translate the kubuntu-leaflet to German :D
[20:42] <apachelogger> 4588 line diff
[20:42] <apachelogger> jpatrick<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:42]  * apachelogger only speaks austrian :P
[20:43]  * emonkey only speaks swiss-german *hide*
[20:43] <jpatrick> ha
[20:45] <apachelogger> /usr/share/qt3/bin/uic -L /usr/lib/kde3/plugins/designer -nounload /tmp/buildd/ksquirrel-0.7.5/./ksquirrel/imageedit/sq_imagebcg.ui | /usr/bin/perl -pi -e "s,public QWizard,public KWizard,g; s,#include <qwizard.h>,#include <kwizard.h>,g" >> sq_imagebcg.h ;
[20:45]  * apachelogger is wondering why stupid autohell can't find the file
[20:45] <apachelogger> ...probably because it's an outta source build...
[20:45] <apachelogger> -.-
[20:50] <apachelogger> jpatrick: I assume sorting copyrighs and licenses is going to be fun for ksquirrel
[20:51] <jpatrick> yep :>
[20:51]  * apachelogger really thinks jpatrick could do that :P
[20:52]  * jpatrick thinks he has enough studying for next weeks exam :>
[20:52] <apachelogger> well, I should do that as well
[20:52] <apachelogger> still I'm to tired anyway
[20:52] <mhb> jpatrick: next week?
[20:52] <mhb> jpatrick: you're no good student
[20:53] <mhb> good students like me learn 2 hours before the exam
[20:53] <jpatrick> mhb: next week = this week
[20:54] <apachelogger> mhb seems to be very confident :P
[20:54] <mhb> I'm confident, self-centered and stubborn, like the rest of the people in free software
[20:54] <mhb> :o)
[20:54]  * apachelogger is not
[20:54] <mhb> we take bad decisions and never take them back, even if we see a better solution
[20:55]  * apachelogger always does that
[20:55] <apachelogger> then again I do a lot of them :P
[20:55] <emonkey> apachelogger4president
[20:55] <emonkey> ahm no... world domination of course ;)
[20:57] <apachelogger> universe domination!
[20:57] <Riddell> apachelogger: why?
[20:58] <apachelogger> Riddell: the bad decisions, no world domination, or the universe domination?
[20:58] <Riddell> apachelogger: sorting ksquirrel copyright
[20:59] <apachelogger> Riddell: ksquirrel is having some kind of wrapper libs -> a lot of code ... plus the main app itself also looks like a lot of work
[20:59] <apachelogger> also it's at least missing the LGPL for admin/
[21:05] <apachelogger> jpatrick: I assume I now can run for MOTU?
[21:05] <apachelogger> dpkg-deb: building package `ksquirrel' in `../ksquirrel_0.7.5-0ubuntu1_i386.deb'.
[21:05] <jpatrick> apachelogger: yay
[21:06] <mhb> ooh, Riddell's here!
[21:06] <mhb> Riddell: I've poked you ~ 1000 times yesterday, hope you don't mind
[21:06] <apachelogger> lol
[21:08] <apachelogger> mhb: /usr/share/apps/dolphin/servicemenus/dolphksquirrel-dir.desktop is that going to work?
[21:09] <apachelogger> or do I have to move it to d3lphin?
[21:09] <mhb> not sure, I'm not one with servicemenus yet
[21:09] <mhb> especially not the 3rd party ones
[21:10] <apachelogger> well, gotta try then
[21:17] <jpatrick> apachelogger: but run for MOTU and we'll support you :)
[21:17] <apachelogger> ok :)
[21:17] <apachelogger> but first ksquirrel
[21:23] <ryanakca> jdong: I can't sponsor anything... at least not package wise...
[21:23]  * ryanakca != MOTU
[21:24] <jdong> ryanakca: ah, ok :) I've already got someone committed, thanks
[21:25] <ryanakca> jpatrick: that's a saweet marketting thing... Give someone the gift of freedom... :D
[21:27] <jpatrick> ryanakca: yep :)
[21:34] <jjesse> afternoon
[21:44] <apachelogger> jpatrick: copyright file for ksquirrel: 114 lines
[21:44] <apachelogger> not that bad
[21:44] <apachelogger> still the libs are to be checked :|
[21:44] <jpatrick> evin apachelogger
[21:44] <jpatrick> jjesse*
[21:46] <jjesse> hello jpatrick
[21:54] <ryanakca> jpatrick: hmm... do we want to have ubuntulinux.org at the bottom as link to Kubuntu, or www.kubuntu.org?
[21:55] <jpatrick> ryanakca: that's what was in the orig
[21:55] <ryanakca> hmmm...
[21:55] <jpatrick> and we have kubuntu.org above it in bigger text anyway :)
[21:55] <ryanakca> okies :)
[21:59]  * ryanakca grumbles at french not having one word for the two english frees... instead we have one for beer and then one for speech...
[22:00] <jpatrick> ryanakca: same in spanish and catalan :(
[22:21] <Riddell> ryanakca: that's a good thing
[22:22] <ryanakca> Riddell: yeah, except when you're translating from english and have to guess which one the original author intended, since the context works for both.
[22:22] <Riddell> mhb: you poked?
[22:22] <Riddell> ryanakca: sounds like the bug is in English
[22:23] <jpatrick> Riddell: so did I :) could you reject/approve semantik, new upstream release out
[22:23]  * claydoh wishes he learned catalan, lived on Menorca for 18 months back around 1981
[22:24] <ryanakca> Riddell: one of the times we were poking to see if you could use your super powers to poke the Canonical people for Drupal...
[22:25] <Riddell> ryanakca: meh, I've been doing that periodically, I'll continue to do so
[22:25] <ryanakca> Riddell: thanks :D
[22:29]  * ryanakca curses at accidently hitting ctrl-alt-backspace
[22:30] <coreymon77> ryanakca: accidentally?
[22:30] <coreymon77> ryanakca: kinda hard to do that, the keys are not that close together
[22:31] <ryanakca> hehe... well, stupidly.
[22:31] <jdong> it's very close to ctrl+bksp, which is a cool way to just press bksp :)
[22:31] <ryanakca> I was trying to remember what the backspace thing was for erasing a word at a time...
[22:31] <ryanakca> so there I was going ctrl-backspace... ctrl-shift-backspace... ctrl-alt-backspace... Boom!
[22:32] <ryanakca> the dangers of randomly pressing buttons :D
[22:36] <jdong> ryanakca: haha :D
[22:47] <apachelogger> jpatrick: I hope you finished studing for today...... it's revu time :-P
[22:48]  * jpatrick puts now dramtic theme music
[22:49] <apachelogger> ah
[22:49] <apachelogger> f**k
[22:50] <apachelogger> forgot to check the diff.gz -.-
[22:50] <jpatrick> hmm, didn't I +1 qgrubeditor?
[22:50] <Riddell> jpatrick: about semantik, it doesn't build-dep on kde 4 but it says kde 4 is required in this version
[22:52] <coreymon77> any idea when kde4 konversation will be released, because as good as the qt3 version works on x11.app, its still got many bugs and annoyances
[22:52] <jpatrick> Riddell: odd, so I should just remove kdelibs5-dev?
[22:53] <apachelogger> *redput*
[22:53] <apachelogger> jpatrick: can't remember at least
[22:53] <Riddell> jpatrick: oh, there it is
[22:53] <Riddell> jpatrick: does this compile and run?
[22:53] <jpatrick> Riddell: can't test run (not on hardy), but it did compile
[22:53] <jpatrick> apachelogger: it is now
[22:54] <Riddell> surprising
[22:54] <jpatrick> Riddell: too bad the code's in Hungarian :)
[22:55] <apachelogger> jpatrick: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=ksquirrel-libs can you please nuke that one, for some reason I renamed the source tar to libksquirrel
[22:55] <jpatrick> apachelogger: I can archive
[22:56] <apachelogger> Riddell: can you nuke something on revu?
[22:56] <Riddell> apachelogger: nope
[22:56] <jpatrick> apachelogger: you'll have to fish an admin in #-motu
[22:56] <apachelogger> again -.-
[22:56] <Riddell> jpatrick: semantik accepted
[22:57] <jpatrick> I'll prepare the new version now, thanks
[22:57] <apachelogger> Riddell: can you take a look at squash?
[22:57] <jpatrick> Riddell: I never upload anything I haven't pbuilt :)
[22:58]  * ryanakca debates on convivialité vs utilisabilité
[22:58] <ryanakca> marseillai: any opinion on the choice of words?
[22:59] <jpatrick> Riddell: err, why did it go into main?
[22:59]  * ryanakca is guessing that the average french person would only know the latter...
[23:00] <Riddell> apachelogger: "Homepage: http://squeeze.googlecode.com" that URL doesn't work
[23:00] <Riddell> jpatrick: meh, fooey
[23:00] <apachelogger> -.-
[23:00] <jpatrick> Riddell: that's new policy
[23:01] <apachelogger> Riddell: can you change it or shall I reupload to revu again?
[23:01] <apachelogger> squash.googlecode.com
[23:01] <jpatrick> oh, wrong address
[23:01] <apachelogger> sebr renamed the app due to conflict with a xfce thingy
[23:01] <apachelogger> forgot to change the url
[23:01] <jpatrick> apachelogger: I'll dget and reupload
[23:01] <Riddell> jpatrick: fixed, thanks
[23:01] <Riddell> apachelogger: I can't change it
[23:02] <apachelogger> jpatrick: ok, thanks
[23:03] <apachelogger> jpatrick: here we go, ksquirrel part #1: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libksquirrel
[23:04] <jpatrick> apachelogger: I'll look at it tomorrow, it's past bed time already
[23:04] <apachelogger> fair enough
[23:04]  * apachelogger should also go to bed
[23:05] <jpatrick> Riddell: can I reupload squash?
[23:05] <jpatrick> or will it just overwrite?


[07:38] <dholbach> good morning
[16:34] <Adri2000> do I still need to attach the debdiff to the bug report for an SRU?
[18:10] <teward> Adri2000, wouldn't hurt, in my opinion - even for SRUs for packages I have upload rights on, I attach the debdiffs to those bugs - that way SRU team can peek at it and determine if it's viable
[18:10] <teward> that's just how I do things, but...


  I'll be re-checking the specs and trying to hammer out workitems.  after that, publishing xorg-server update, and checking kernel builds
[18:06] <kees> jdstrand: you're up.  my list is short.  :)
[18:06] <jdstrand> I too plan to do the spec/workitems thing
[18:06] <jdstrand> I plan to get back to koffice
[18:06] <jdstrand> I am triager
[18:07] <jdstrand> and will start poking at the (new) chromium apparmor profile I started on over the weekend
[18:07] <jdstrand> that's it from me
[18:07] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
[18:07] <mdeslaur> I published some community security updates
[18:07] <mdeslaur> and will be doing the spec_workitems stuff
[18:08] <mdeslaur> and will go down the CVE list
[18:08] <mdeslaur> there's a lot of security bugs to research, if you want to pass some of those to me, jdstrand, feel free
[18:09] <mdeslaur> I didn't do any of it last week, so this morning I got rid of the low hanging fruit
[18:09] <jdstrand> well, we'll see
[18:09] <mdeslaur> oh, and I'll be looking at nxvl's openssl merge
[18:09] <mdeslaur> that's it from me
[18:10] <kees> cool.  jjohansen, sbeattie, other folks got anything to bring up?
[18:10] <nxvl> i will be giving mdeslaur a lot of work :D
[18:11] <kees> nxvl: oh? in what form?
[18:11] <nxvl> kees: he is community :D
[18:11] <jjohansen> kees: hrmm, not atm
[18:11] <mdeslaur> oh, and I'll also be preparing my packaging training session for next week
[18:11] <nxvl> i've going trough d2u list and doing some merges
[18:11] <kees> ah-ha, excellent.
[18:12] <nxvl> plus i found a 'bug' that i already reported to stefanlsd yesterday, will trying to look at the source of that
[18:12] <nxvl> bug in d2u
[18:13] <kees> okay, thanks everyone!
[18:13] <ari-tczew> I'm thinking about own work on chromium-browser CVEs
[18:15] <mdeslaur> ari-tczew: cool!
[18:15] <mdeslaur> ari-tczew, nxvl: thanks for your universe security update contributions this week
[18:15] <ari-tczew> mdeslaur: kadu hardy waiting for sponsorship ;p
[18:16] <mdeslaur> ari-tczew: I published it this morning
[18:16] <mdeslaur> ari-tczew: read your bug mail :)
[18:17]  * ari-tczew looking.. maybe in spam?
[18:19] <ari-tczew> mdeslaur: that's right! your mail was published in my spambox ;p
[18:19] <ari-tczew> and right now I got a mail from Ubuntu Installer
[18:20] <ari-tczew> security team: what do you think about expand Ubuntu CVE Tracker by option to choice a release version? e.g. get CVEs for karmic (only)
[18:20] <mdeslaur> ari-tczew: hmm...so I guess I'm considered spam :)
[18:21] <ari-tczew> if not, would be nice to got an option to get open CVEs on current development cycle (like merges and syncs - active during dev cycle)
[18:24] <kees> ari-tczew: the tracker already tracks per-release.  what specifically did you feel was missing?
[18:41] <ari-tczew> kees: I love looking on clear situation. I'd like to see CVEs only open on devel release
[18:42] <ari-tczew> current cve tracker's homepage have an option: (and without devel release)
[18:42] <ari-tczew> I'd like to got (only devel release)
[18:42] <kees> ari-tczew: you can use "scripts/ubuntu-table" from the tracker to do that -- just display the last column
[18:42] <ari-tczew> explanation: we should give users a good, very safety linux system


and how about 24.04? (re @ahoneybun: Plasma 5 will stay in 22.04)
 and what python3 version will it have?
[09:27] <tuxinator> Hi guys
[09:28] <tuxinator> Any hint on how to use preseed (deprecated) or autoinstall for Kubuntu Desktop? Could not find any recent guide or Documentation for Kubuntu
 Tvag
 Most likely Plasma 5 as well. I believe the current plan is for Plasma 6 in 24.10. Not sure about python3, it would follow what every Ubuntu 24.04 ships with. (re @Omarvx211: and how about 24.04?)
 autoinstall? (re @IrcsomeBot: <tuxinator> Any hint on how to use preseed (deprecated) or autoinstall for Kubuntu Desktop? Could not find any recent guide or Documentation for Kubuntu)
[13:00] <user|50> hey there ,can i ask you something
[13:01] <user|50> how can i access to my root folder
 sudo su -
 cd /root
[13:37] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[14:51] <user|60> Hi, I have a question regarding Cmake
[14:52] <user|60> I have Kubuntu 20.04 which come with Cmake version 3.16.3. But in my case I need version 3.18 and higher
[14:53] <user|60> How do I download the new version cleanly?
[15:32] <masum> Hi, I noticed a bug on Kubuntu
[15:32] <masum> Plasma widgets and app shortcuts in Desktop move around randomly/go out of order
[15:32] <masum> Is there a fix to the problem?
[15:41] <masum> anyone here?
[16:02] <Bio> was wondering how to remove linux-tools-common. i seem to not be able to remove it VIA Discover or Uninstall option
[16:02] <Bio> And it wont update
[16:03] <Bio> this is the error msg i get:Package failed to install:

Error while installing package: trying to overwrite '/usr/bin/cpupower', which is also in package linux-laptop-tools-common 6.5.0-1006.9
[18:48] <Daniyar> I have an acer v7-581g, and I want the developers to integrate all nvidia and intel drivers
[18:51] <oerheks> i think kubuntu give all drivers you need
[19:05] <Daniyar> after opening kubuntu additional driver, there's empty no actions needed


[06:39] <knome> ochosi, mr_pouit: would you be able to join us if we did an informal meeting earlier or later?
[06:40] <knome> i hope our scheduled time slot is fine for micah.
[06:44] <knome> i would be okay with setting up an informal meeting at 10 CET
[08:38] <ochosi> knome: yes, that would work for me. later wouldn't
[08:39] <knome> pleia2, you have a session for the next time slot?
[08:39] <pleia2> knome: no, but I need to spend at least half of it prepping for my lightning talk
[08:39] <knome> pleia2, maybe you could use the other half for discussing the artwork/marketingish stuff
[08:40] <pleia2> sure, meet somewhere at 10:30?
[08:40] <knome> at the tables we were hacking on the plenary talk?
[08:40] <knome> i think i'm just going to skip the next sessions so i'll just sit around there
[08:41] <pleia2> sure
[08:41] <knome> i need something to make me less dehydrated
[08:42] <ochosi> ok, so 10.30 - 11.00?
[08:42] <knome> ochosi, yeah
[08:42] <ochosi> k, worksforme
[08:42] <knome> ochosi, i'll be around from 10 in irc too
[08:42] <knome> i'm not sure if a google hangout is doable, but maybe we can just chat in irc
[08:42] <ochosi> thunar1.5.1 and xfsettings4.11.0 are ready in mr_pouit's ppa
[08:43] <knome> aha, great
[08:44] <ochosi> you should test it
[08:44] <ochosi> thunar is lightning fast again
[08:44] <ochosi> i mean really: like it was before the port to gio :}
[08:44] <knome> i think i'll leave that for home
[09:34] <ochosi>  /begin-unofficial-meeting
[09:34] <knome> lol
[09:34] <knome> so, is there something specific you want to discuss?
[09:35] <ochosi> yeah, in fact the disc-size problem
[09:35] <knome> yep
[09:35] <ochosi> because it affects much of what we wanna do with artwork
[09:35] <knome> micah would be useful here
[09:35] <ochosi> yeah, true
[09:35] <ochosi> but you can later argue that with him :)
[09:36] <knome> lol
[09:36] <ochosi> so, point is
[09:36] <micahg_mobile> Well,I was thinking to look and see of we can port to python3
[09:36] <ochosi> nice
[09:37] <ochosi> if we want new/more artwork (dark themes, wallpapers), we need more space on the disc
[09:37] <knome> that would definitely be nice
[09:37] <ochosi> in fact our icon-theme will most likely need more space in 13.04
[09:37] <ochosi> because we'll implement a script by NSchermer to convert it to png
[09:37] <satya164> themes are in kbs
[09:37] <ochosi> which makes it faster
[09:37] <satya164> wallpapers need a lot of space
[09:37] <ochosi> satya164: for dark themes, we need icon-themes that work with them
[09:38] <satya164> and we need wallpapers in different resolutions too
[09:38] <zequence> How about a post install task, to add stuff that was not absolutely needed for a networkless install, but would be nice to have?
[09:38] <ochosi> so that's something that goes hand-in-hand for me
[09:38] <zequence> ..at first login
[09:38] <satya164> ochosi: rigt!
[09:38] <ochosi> zequence: yeah, that's one option
[09:38] <satya164> right
[09:38] <ochosi> but doing post-install scripts is a nice source for bugs
[09:38] <knome> yeah
[09:38] <zequence> I've seen Ubuntu sometimes does that to add some language files
[09:39] <knome> satya164, we don't need wallpaper for different sizes
[09:39] <knome> satya164, just shipping one big one is good
[09:39] <satya164> there are monitors of diff sizes, so...
[09:39] <ochosi> yeah, but ideally xfdesktop will take care of that
[09:39] <knome> yes.
[09:39] <satya164> yeah right, only if it is a simple one
[09:39] <ochosi> we can test how they look in diff res before
[09:39] <micahg_mobile> We can also evaluate the default list of Xfce components to see if we want to ship them all
[09:39] <ochosi> so it's not that problematic
[09:39] <satya164> wallpapers will text will look odd if scaled
[09:40] <satya164> ok
[09:40] <ochosi> micahg_mobile: is there anything you're thinking of right now?
[09:40] <knome> i would like to do a complete check of the xubuntu ISO  seed this cycle
[09:40] <micahg_mobile> No
[09:40] <ochosi> hmm
[09:40] <ochosi> i can only think of panel-plugins
[09:40] <ochosi> but those are too small to matter
[09:40] <knome> i mean, just go through it item by item and see if we need those
[09:40] <micahg_mobile> Yes
[09:40] <ochosi> what would be nice:
[09:41] <ochosi> a list of our core components incl size on disc
[09:41] <knome> right
[09:41] <ochosi> just for everyone to be able to discuss on the same basis
[09:41] <knome> with all dependencies or by package?
[09:41] <ochosi> otherwise it's random finger-pointing at components that are supposedly heavy
[09:41] <knome> i mean, when dependencies overlap...
[09:42] <ochosi> yeah, that's hard to say
[09:42] <ochosi> looking at you, mozilla
[09:42] <pleia2> hehe
[09:42] <ochosi> prolly ff and tb should be treated as one
[09:42] <ochosi> getting rid of just one of them doesn't make too much sense anyway
[09:42] <knome> unless somebody wants to do something like a virtual ISO size calculator
[09:42] <knome> bluesabre, just sayin'!
[09:42] <knome> it shouldn't be that hard
[09:43] <ochosi> how much do we save by dropping python2
[09:43] <knome> a few whales
[09:44] <satya164> whales?
[09:44] <knome> j/k
[09:44] <ochosi> ok, that's what i meant by: we need numbers! :)
[09:44] <pleia2> I asked how big a whale was, knome motioned "big" with his hands
[09:44] <ochosi> haha
[09:45] <knome> well the problem in Q was gtk2/3 and python 2/3, so it can't be like 2MB only
[09:45] <ochosi> also
[09:45] <knome> have fun calculating the dependencies :]
[09:45] <ochosi> what about the apps we dropped this time?
[09:45] <ochosi> gimp, ...
[09:45] <pleia2> yay, micahg is here
[09:45] <ochosi> are we going to bring them back immediately?
[09:45] <ochosi> anyway, for me it's important to know so that i know what to invest my time in, artwork-wise
[09:46] <satya164> so there is not a page containing all specifications for ringtail?
[09:46] <ochosi> i can also try to come up with numbers on my end, btw
[09:46] <bluesabre> I think it's time to pick up shotwell and replace gthumb and ristretto
[09:46] <bluesabre> ;)
[09:46] <pleia2> satya164: the specs are what we're defining right now :)
[09:46] <ochosi> bluesabre: isn't shotwell a bit heavy for simple viewing? (agreed that for browsing/organising it's great)
[09:47] <bluesabre> it has a lightweight viewer that comes with it
[09:47] <pleia2> it's not even good for simple viewing
[09:47] <ochosi> a-ha
[09:47] <ochosi> didnt know there was a simple viewer
[09:48] <satya164> pleia2: I mean we need to have an index in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Raring/
[09:48] <pleia2> micahg says shotwell is too heavy, that's why ubuntu kept eog
[09:48] <knome> we should keep ristretto
[09:49] <knome> satya164, that's why we are here, to build the roadmap
[09:49] <satya164> knome: ok
[09:49] <smartboyhw> Hi knome pleia2
[09:50] <bluesabre> ok, no shotwell, but here is that viewer :) http://imagebin.org/234154
[09:50]  * smartboyhw thinks he can remotely come to the Xubuntu planning session now:P
[09:50] <ochosi> hm, so a quick question round for you guys:
[09:50] <pleia2> bluesabre: how is that launched?
[09:51] <ochosi> 1) is everyone happy with our default icon theme? (looking at faenza mostly as alternative)
[09:51] <bluesabre> pleia2: It can be set as the default viewer, and it's available from the right-click menu on an image
[09:51] <ochosi> 2) do we want to have more gtk-themes installed by default?
[09:51] <pleia2> I think images need to be added to the shotwell album and all that, shotwell is crazy slow on my netbook so I can't really use it for quick opening of images
[09:51] <knome> ochosi, we just dropped some!
[09:51] <bluesabre> ah
[09:51] <ochosi> knome: yes, because they were unmaintained
[09:52] <satya164> ochosi: the current one matches more with Greybird
[09:52] <ochosi> i'm talking about getting ones that are maintained and have perfect gtk2/3
[09:52] <bluesabre> I've had issues in the past with ristretto failing out on some images (especially svg)
[09:52] <knome> are there such?
[09:52] <ochosi> yes
[09:52] <ochosi> even satya has a few we might think about
[09:52] <bluesabre> and gthumb is just an image browser, not really a image library manager
[09:52] <ochosi> bluesabre: yes, that's a known issue
[09:53] <knome> bluesabre, report a bug
[09:53] <ochosi> gthumb is mainly there for browsing camera's that use libgphoto (or what it's called)
[09:53] <pleia2> micahg says we should fix ristretto to support svg :)
[09:53] <astraljava> Do we need to _have_ an image library manager by default?
[09:53] <ochosi> actually i think we don't
[09:53] <ochosi> but as i said
[09:53] <bluesabre> no, not really
[09:53] <ochosi> the reason isn't image-library management
[09:53] <ochosi> it's support for cameras
[09:53] <pleia2> I don't use it
[09:54] <ochosi> so if we can all agree that's not functionality that we need _by default_, it'll be easy to drop it
[09:54] <ochosi> (i also don't use it, i don't even know anyone who has a camera that needs that)
[09:55] <astraljava> Hmm... I always rather copy the images from the mem cards to HDD before looking at them, so I guess this discussion isn't what I'm looking for (/me makes jedi gestures)
[09:55] <satya164> knome: I propose to include http://satya164.deviantart.com/art/Evolve-GTK3-Theme-264780816 and http://satya164.deviantart.com/art/Cream-GTK3-Theme-334006701
[09:55] <satya164> though http://satya164.deviantart.com/art/Cream-GTK3-Theme-334006701 is a work in progress
[09:55] <ochosi> astraljava: even browsing them on sd cards works with ristretto. it's just about importing fotos via some canon-format or smthg like that
[09:56] <satya164> ochosi: even if I had a camera, i will just copy the iimages to hdd
[09:56] <ochosi> yes, but for copying you need something that supports libgphoto!!! :)
[09:56] <satya164> may be professional photographers need that
[09:56] <bluesabre> ochosi: for anything like that, you'd need ufraw
[09:56] <ochosi> that's what gthumb is good for
[09:57] <astraljava> ochosi: You do? Aren't the SD cards just some vfat filesystem?
[09:57] <ochosi> arrrr, it's for cameras that don't get mounted as mass-storage device and that for ppl who at the same time don't have a cardreader
[09:57] <astraljava> Right.
[09:57] <satya164> ochosi: oh... didn't know
[09:57] <astraljava> Well, they can always install additional apps, IMNSHO. :)
[09:57] <ochosi> but i'm all for dropping gthumb, it just has to be for the right reasons
[09:58] <satya164> ochosi: we cannot support evrything!
[09:58] <ochosi> yeah, i agree! :)
[09:58] <ochosi> and as i said, let's drop it
[09:58] <ochosi> ok, so any more voices on the themes satya164 proposed?`(i'm for them btw)
[09:59] <ochosi> and general opinions about getting more themes that work?
[09:59] <ochosi> (currently: blackbird, bluebird, greybird, albatross)
[09:59] <ochosi> note: they're all blue
[09:59] <bluesabre> evolve looks really similar to greybird
[10:00] <ochosi> that's true
[10:00] <ochosi> satya164: what about orion btw?
[10:00] <bluesabre> gotta go, bbl :)
[10:00] <ochosi> bluesabre: hf!
[10:01] <satya164> bluesabre: tru
[10:01] <satya164> ochosi: haven't updated Orion
[10:01] <satya164> ochosi: will try to do it within a week
[10:01] <satya164> ochosi: Orion already has a xfwm theme
[10:01] <ochosi> yeah, no rush
[10:01] <ochosi> target is 13.04 ;)
[10:02] <ochosi> do you have a link to orion?
[10:02] <satya164> ochosi: yeah, but I'm already flooded with comments and emails asking about update
[10:03] <ochosi> k
[10:03] <satya164> http://satya164.deviantart.com/gallery/33387415
[10:03] <satya164> ochosi: my ppa status says, Orion is the most popular theme by me
[10:03] <satya164> http://satya164.deviantart.com/art/Orion-GTK3-Theme-281431756?q=gallery%3Asatya164%2F33387415&qo=6
[10:04] <ochosi> mhm
[10:04] <ochosi> i mean the colorscheme is again very close to greybird
[10:04] <satya164> ochosi: it's a lot lighter
[10:04] <ochosi> yeah, that's true
[10:05] <satya164> ochosi: I can change it if you prefer
[10:05] <ochosi> yeah we can discuss it during the cycle
[10:05] <satya164> ochosi: I'll do it while porting
[10:05] <ochosi> it's just about the highlight.color
[10:05] <ochosi> the rest isn't too similar
[10:06] <satya164> ochosi: yeah. we can perhaps use purple?
[10:06] <Unit193> Heh, you like "action" buttons (title buttons) on the left.
[10:06] <satya164> Unit193: I'm accustomed to it
[10:07] <ochosi> yeah, purple would work well i guess
[10:07] <satya164> as menus and most thing are in left, I don't have to travel to far right
[10:07] <ochosi> i don't use window-buttons very much
[10:07] <ochosi> i'm more a kb-guy
[10:07] <satya164> :)
[10:07] <ochosi> anyway, ppl can easily change the layout of that in xfce
[10:07] <satya164> ok. I'm gotta go
[10:08] <ochosi> yeah, in fact me too
[10:08] <satya164> have to go to arrange sponsorship for my college seminar
[10:08] <ochosi> have fun you UDS people, even though you're all zoned-out now it seems!
[10:08] <ochosi> satya164: ok good luck!
[10:08] <satya164> :)
[10:08] <satya164> bye
[10:08] <satya164> thanks
[10:08] <knome> heh yeah
[10:08] <knome> sorry
[10:09] <Unit193> ochosi: I think they are generally zoned out.
[10:11] <knome> true.
[10:13]  * astraljava doesn't like zones
[10:14] <ochosi> ok, i'm off
[10:14] <ochosi> have fun everyone and talk to you later
[10:14] <knome> see you
[10:58] <smartboyhw> Gee session starting in 1 minute
[17:18] <pleia2> http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/ubuntu/
[17:18] <pleia2> These are distributions of Ubuntu/Xubuntu Linux modified to work on the Joggler by Jools Wills (buzz [at] exotica.org.uk).
[17:21] <GridCube> oh that looks nice
[17:22] <GridCube> i wonder if that would work on my netbook :P
[17:22] <ashNOP> hi, i have one problem, when run own compiled xfwm4 get this error: (xfwm4:5202): xfwm4-WARNING **: Missing defaults file. Can i fix it?
[18:18] <ochosi> hi everyone
[18:18] <ochosi> how did today's xubuntu-session go?
[18:19] <elfy> I think it went ok ochosi
[18:19] <Unit193> I ended up staying up for it after all.
[18:20] <ochosi> any decisions?
[18:20] <Unit193> Yes, you have 5 work items.
[18:20] <ochosi> woot?
[18:21] <elfy> ochosi: 5 work items - each being a sub set of 10 other items
[18:21] <elfy> :)
[18:21] <ochosi> haha
[18:21] <ochosi> nice
[18:21] <ochosi> no, in all seriousness, is there a transcript or a summary?
[18:21] <elfy> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-r/meeting/21409/xubuntu-general-planning-for-r/
[18:21] <elfy> not sure if there was anything else in other sessions  - that's the only one I got to
[18:22] <Unit193> The etherpad, there is a summery link in that, and audio may have been recorded?
[18:23] <ochosi> mm, seems fine
[18:23] <elfy> I think the audio will turn up eventually - that's if it's like last one
[18:32] <GridCube> Either you have not been granted access to this resource or your entitlement has timed out. Please try again.
[18:32] <GridCube> :(
[21:52] <pleia2> http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/8145973750/
[21:52] <pleia2> haz party :)
[21:54] <ochosi> nice


[00:13] <xubuntu71w> how do i prevent xubuntu from turning off my monitor
[00:13] <ObrienDave> power settings
[00:14] <poeticrpm> xubuntu71w, xfce4-menu --> settings manager ---> screensaver
[00:14] <ObrienDave> either one or the other ;P
[00:14] <adrenaline_> Also look at the light-locker in the settings manager
[00:15] <poeticrpm> you can also use xset directly if you kill the xscreensaver process like --> xset s off
[00:16] <adrenaline_> Light locker is  new in 14.04
[00:17] <adrenaline_> ya a 10minute black out is seriously annoying
[00:18] <ObrienDave> try 3 or 4 hours ;P
[00:19] <xubuntu71w> can't find "screensaver". also all my settings are set to never turn off monitor yet it still does this
[00:19] <ObrienDave> xscreensaver
[00:20] <poeticrpm> I like 10 minutes. I setup a script where I can launch vlc with "(movie mode)" appended to the title where vlc inhibits the screensaver itself
[00:20] <poeticrpm> that works for me
[00:24] <adrenaline_> xubuntu71w, You may not have xscreensaver setup
[00:24] <xubuntu71w> is xscreensaver supposed to be installed by default?
[00:24] <adrenaline_> Look in your settings manager
[00:24] <adrenaline_> Look for something called Light locker should be on the top somewhere
[00:24] <xubuntu71w> it'll show up there?
[00:25] <adrenaline_> I believe the power settings are in the second section
[00:25] <xubuntu71w> i've already told lightlocker to do nothing
[00:25] <adrenaline_> but you can turn off the power settings in the light locker
[00:25] <adrenaline_> Did you hit apply?
[00:25] <adrenaline_> If you turn it off in the middle and close it will be back on when you go back in. You have it actually hit apply
[00:26] <xubuntu71w> it is all set to off
[00:26] <adrenaline_> ok
[00:26] <xubuntu71w> and apply has been hit
[00:26] <adrenaline_> Then you probably have a screensaver set up
[00:26] <adrenaline_> I think it is in the second section too
[00:27] <adrenaline_> I am on 13.10 so I can see it in front of me
[00:27] <xubuntu71w> hold on
[00:27] <adrenaline_> holding on...
[00:28] <xubuntu71w> it doesn't seem to be packaged with 14.04
[00:28] <xubuntu71w> so i have to install it
[00:29] <xubuntu71w> so what do i do now
[00:29] <adrenaline_> Well I when I install my stuff I don't like my stuff to ever go to sleep so all usually do is go into the power setting and turn everything to never then the light locker and do the same I turm monitor power settings to off apply and that works for me. I don't ever have to mess wiht a screen saver that usually does the trick for me
[00:30] <adrenaline_> I can spin up a 14.04 vm and double check though if you like
[00:31] <xubuntu71w> ill set it to 1 min to see if its doing what i want it to
[00:31] <adrenaline_> Ok
[00:32] <adrenaline_> I have a 14.04 up
[00:32] <adrenaline_> IN the power settings uncheck this
[00:32] <xubuntu71w> this what
[00:32] <adrenaline_> Monitor Power Manage control
[00:32] <adrenaline_> managment
[00:32] <adrenaline_> uncheck that
[00:33] <xubuntu71w> it's off
[00:33] <adrenaline_> What does that mean
[00:33] <adrenaline_> It isn't an off on thing
[00:33] <adrenaline_> it is check or uncheck thing
[00:33] <xubuntu71w> i'd already had it off
[00:33] <xubuntu71w> uncheck
[00:33] <ObrienDave> uncheck = off
[00:34] <ObrienDave> check = on
[00:34] <adrenaline_> ok
[00:34] <adrenaline_> so click on the ac tab
[00:34] <xubuntu71w> yes
[00:34] <adrenaline_> then click monitor
[00:34] <adrenaline_> are the options greyed out?
[00:35] <xubuntu71w> i'd already turned it all off.
[00:35] <xubuntu71w> figured i'd need to
[00:35] <adrenaline_> so is it greyed out?
[00:36] <xubuntu71w> they're set to never
[00:36] <adrenaline_> I am trying to figure out where the breakdown is. because all I do is uncheck that box and turn everything off in lightlocker and that is all I have to do
[00:36] <adrenaline_> can you change them (greyed out)
[00:36] <xubuntu71w> yes
[00:37] <adrenaline_> Ok then the management is still on
[00:37] <adrenaline_> Mine cannot be changed because it is greyed out
[00:38] <adrenaline_> Also mine still say 10 minutes by the way but it is greyed out
[00:38] <xubuntu71w> here :  http://imgur.com/MhUY0FT
[00:38] <xubuntu71w> give that a look and tell me if it's right
[00:39] <adrenaline_> yep that is what mine looks like
[00:39] <BuntuTech> may i paste a proposed wallapaer theme (imgur) in this channel?
[00:39] <adrenaline_> show me your light locker? if you will
[00:40] <adrenaline_> BuntuTech, I don't know the rules but as long as it doesn't flood I don't think anybody will complain
[00:41] <BuntuTech> http://imgur.com/VKaFLl2 Buntu wallaper theme "invasion of microsoft city"
[00:41] <adrenaline_> I like that a lot BuntuTech
[00:42] <xubuntu71w> same
[00:42] <knome> BuntuTech, offtopic and general chatter in #xubuntu-offtopic please.
[00:42] <xubuntu71w> adrenaline, here you go: http://imgur.com/EVXEAp3
[00:42] <adrenaline_> Oops sorry BuntuTech
[00:43] <BuntuTech> ok gnome i asked before i did it
[00:43] <BuntuTech> thanks
[00:43] <knome> BuntuTech, it's ok. if you want to continue the discussion on it, the channel is open for all of you
[00:43] <adrenaline_> xubuntu71w, Ya that looks right
[00:44] <adrenaline_> everything seems to be greyed out
[00:44] <adrenaline_> and you  are saying it still blanks out after 10 minutes?
[00:44] <knome> adrenaline_, tut tut ;)
[00:44] <knome> !guidelines
[00:44] <xubuntu71w> yep. but it would seem all i needed was xscreensaver. it seems to have solved my problem
[00:45] <knome> adrenaline_, ^ since you got those on join, you should know. but you are excused, and continue as usually :)
[00:45] <adrenaline_> haha thanks
[00:45] <adrenaline_> xubuntu71w, Ok but that is weird because I don't have the screensaver on my session and it is working
[00:45] <xubuntu71w> adrenaline, thanks for your help dude
[00:46] <adrenaline_> Your welcome but it looks like you did it all yourself
[00:46] <xubuntu71w> well it sure fixed it
[00:47] <xubuntu71w> nah, i'd of never known that xscreensaver woulda fixed it if you'd never said anything about it
[00:47] <xubuntu71w> or if it was even missing for that matter
[00:48] <adrenaline_> I am glad you got it working. The time out or sleep really annoys me too.
[00:50] <xubuntu71w> hanks to you all. good night
[00:50] <xubuntu71w> *thanks
[00:55] <BuntuTech> when xubuntu is at idle, with out any other programs open, how much ram does it use?
[00:56] <BuntuTech> thanks adrenaline_
[00:58] <adrenaline_> Should be under 1 but it will depend on what you have and what is running
[00:58] <adrenaline_> If you type top in a terminal you will see what your load is and the processes heaviest from the top down
[01:00] <adrenaline_> Mine is doing an upgrade right now and it has a load average of 1.2
[01:06] <adrenaline_> after the update with nothing running it settled down to .01 average, but it is a pretty stock install and I don't have much running in the background
[01:07] <knome> fwiw, load averages are not comparable and do not really have much to do with RAM usage
[01:08] <knome> if a load average is 1, it means all your resources are used during the timeframe in question
[01:08] <knome> if you have more resources and run the same applications with same things, the load average is below 1
[01:09] <knome> so a load average is only comparable with another load average logged on the same computer with completely the same setup
[01:10] <knome> (actually the with a quad-core processor, the load average is 4 when all resources are in use)
[01:11] <knome> ...and the load average represents the load of CPU( core)s, not memory
[01:13] <adrenaline_> Oh ya I missread that. I thought he was asking how much load. I missed the ram thing. I take that back hehe. Thanks for keeping me honest.
[01:13] <knome> :)
[01:14] <adrenaline_> I will go get some sleep before I give the wrong advice again hehe
[01:14] <knome> good night :)
[06:10] <jhenke> hi folks, one question: While testing I have a bit of an annoying visual problem. Using the the Greybird theme you normally have a middle blue colour to highlight a selected item, now in my installation that colour is very much purple. Is that known and is there a way to fix this?
[06:33] <ochosi> jhenke: known and expected, even mentioned in the b2 release notes
[06:34] <jhenke> ochosi: sorry overseen that, mea culpa
[06:34] <ochosi> np
[08:27] <bodzsom> hello
[08:28] <bodzsom> just got my first computer with xubuntu installed!
[08:29] <bodzsom> where can i change themes?
[08:30] <maijin> bodzsom: o/ Go to settings -> Appearance
[08:32] <bodzsom> maijin, thanks!
[08:36] <bodzsom> and which login manager does xubuntu use?
[08:38] <brainwash> lightdm with lightdm-gtk-greeter
[08:39] <bodzsom> looks really nice
[08:39] <bodzsom> i heard that xfce isnt developed anymore? people are focusing on lxqt or something. is that true? if yes, what will happen with xubuntu?
[08:40] <brainwash> it's not true
[08:40] <brainwash> take a look at http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/log/ got example
[08:41] <brainwash> for example
[08:42] <bodzsom> okay :)
[09:18] <colonolGron> hi
[09:19] <colonolGron> on my xubuntu laptop special keys for changing display brightness already work. in which file does stuff like this get configured?
[09:19] <colonolGron> i would like to save it
[12:09] <papero_> ce qualcuno?
[12:09] <knome> !it | papero_
[12:09] <papero_> ok i try to talk english
[12:10] <papero_> but i'm not very well
[12:10] <knome> or you can join the italian channel
[12:10] <papero_> ok thanks!
[12:11] <papero_> bye!
[12:25] <RemuN> hey I need help getting to a TTY, when I press ctrl+alt+F1 I just get a blank screen
[12:26] <RemuN> I tried booting into text mode, same blank screen
[14:03] <zhong> How to make the cursor by the box into the line drawing style in the terminal?
[14:03] <zhong> sorry,english is poor,:(
[14:05] <zhong> xubuntu teminal cursor style
[14:09] <zhong> i am in china,it's ten o'clock in the evening. who can help me?
[14:11] <cfhowlett> zhong, use ubuntukylin
[14:11] <cfhowlett> zhong, but ask your question.  *maybe* I can help
[14:13] <zhong> cfhowlett: How to change the terminal under the cursor style? The box? Vertical bars?
[15:13] <roller> i have a problem, with wifi drivers
[15:14] <roller> i can't disable proprietary drivers
[15:14] <roller> and i have some problems with they
[15:15] <roller> but with the open i haven't any problem
[15:16] <roller> can anyone help me?
[15:17] <Wollie88> if you supply some more details
[15:18] <roller> i use xubuntu
[15:19] <roller> what information do you need?
[16:52] <xubuntu630> britness
[22:28] <zvx> read only file system, oh no -> reboot -> OS not found, halp -> hd was just disconnected -> *sigh of relief*
[22:34] <adrenaline_> nice find zvx
[22:34] <zvx> Yup crisis averted :)
[23:36] <mall> Hello, I can't change screen brigthness on an asus eeepc 1001xpd
[23:36] <mall> xubuntu up to date
[23:37] <mall> ;(