[00:28] <Keres> hi
[00:29] <Keres> i am trying to generate a MIDI arpegiator... keyword GENERATE. that means, no midi input. all the arpgeiators that i have tried require a midi input device with someone playing notes.
[00:29] <Keres> it looks like alsa modular synth is what i need
[00:29] <Keres> this PD thing doesn't work out of the box and crashes
[00:30] <Keres> tried to compile alsa modular... first it tels me that i dont have asound
[00:30] <Keres> then it tells me that i don't have jack.
[00:30] <Keres> what is going on? seems like this app should be included in this distro.
[00:31] <OvenWerks> which app?
[00:31] <Keres> alsa modular studio
[00:31] <OvenWerks> It appears not.
[00:32] <OvenWerks> Not everything that is an audio or video or graphics app is included.... there does try to be one of everything though
[00:33] <Keres> why does it say i dont; have jack installed?
[00:33] <OvenWerks> just as an example, if drumgismo came with drum kits the iso size would double.
[00:33] <Keres> clearly i am using jack
[00:33] <OvenWerks> that is a good question. it may be that the depends is for jackd1 rather than jackd2
[00:33] <Keres> is there a forum that deals with this issue?
[00:34] <Keres> is there a distro specific package for alsa modular?
[00:34] <OvenWerks> what is the package name?
[00:34] <Keres> alsa modular synthesizer
[00:34] <OvenWerks> oh, are you trying to build it?
[00:34] <Keres> is there any other way?
[00:35] <OvenWerks> the package you are probably looking for is libjack-jackd2-dev
[00:36] <OvenWerks> when building packages on debian based distros, you generally need the packages for the lib that is libname-dev for building
[00:37] <OvenWerks> I was pushing to have libjack-jackd2-dev included in the distro, I thought it made it.I guess not
[00:37] <OvenWerks> too many people install libjack-dev which uninstalls half the audio packages :(
[00:38] <Keres> so now it is this: configure: error: clalsadrv is required
[00:38] <Keres> what is that?
[00:38] <Keres> same problem?
[00:39] <OvenWerks> That one does n't seem to be there at all
[00:39] <OvenWerks> (that I can find)
[00:40] <OvenWerks> BTW, I personally do not trust the software application and always install synaptic instead
[00:40] <Keres> im using apt-get install whatever you say
[00:41] <Keres> i got past the jack2-dev thing
[00:41] <OvenWerks> atp-get is great
[00:41] <OvenWerks> libclalsa-dev
[00:42] <Keres> Unable to locate package libclalsa-dev
[00:42] <Keres> that one is not in my lists
[00:42] <OvenWerks> sorry libclalsadrv-dev
[00:42] <OvenWerks> that is the lib for clalsadrv
[00:43] <OvenWerks> it will probably install libclalsadrv2 as well
[00:43] <Keres> hopefully this is all it needs.
[00:43] <Keres> i have desperately needed a replacement for my windows softsynth for years
[00:43] <OvenWerks> This is why I use synaptic, it has a nice search.
[00:43] <Keres> it works under wine, spare MIDI
[00:44] <OvenWerks> I am not the person to ask about synths... I am more guitar/bass/mandolyn based rather than kb
[00:44] <Keres> checking for Qt4... no configure: error: cannot find Qt4 library >= 4.2
[00:45] <OvenWerks> You may wish to ask what are good linux soft synths in #ardour
[00:45] <Keres> well i am the guy who has to record you so, i need good tools
[00:45] <OvenWerks> It is oof topic, but there are a number of people who do all electronic music too.
[00:45] <Keres> i do both
[00:45] <Keres> i have old tape machines
[00:46] <OvenWerks> I play a little kb.... I have an old DX7, but I am far from being a synth conisour
[00:46] <Keres> what is QT4?
[00:47] <OvenWerks> QT4, is old. let me check
[00:47] <Keres> i have been able to use ardor in realtime to process sounds with custom plugins in sunvox
[00:47] <Keres> ardor is pretty nice
[00:48] <Keres> my next task is to see if i can record multitrack with it using some behringer gear
[00:48] <OvenWerks> libqt4-dev
[00:48] <Keres> i just shelved an old Alesis XD32
[00:50] <Keres> when you record mandolyn, do you use a mic or do you have a pickup installed?
[00:50] <OvenWerks> I have both. I use the PU live, but I would like to try a ribon mic for recording... if I get that far
[00:51] <Keres> yeah mics are great with the right pre-amp
[00:51] <Keres> its all subjective tho
[00:51] <Keres> you can get great sounds from really cheap gear
[00:52] <Keres> or medi-ochre sounds from expensive stuff
[00:52] <OvenWerks> My condencer mic is cheap, but sounds tinny to me. It is small diaphram. The ribon doesn't have the same high end but sounds more natural to me.
[00:54] <OvenWerks> The manolyn pu actually sounds pretty good (for a stick on), but the preamp is key for that.
[00:56] <Keres> well make gave me errors:
[00:56] <Keres> _vocoder.cpp: In member function ‘virtual void M_vocoder::generateCycle()’: m_vocoder.cpp:298:52: error: incompatible types in assignment of ‘float’ to ‘fftw_complex’ {aka ‘double [2]’}
[00:56] <OvenWerks> That is probably a c++99 to c++11 error
[00:57] <OvenWerks> you can try using a cast
[00:57] <Keres> will it crash the whole app or just that module?
[00:57] <Keres> because i dont need a vocoder right now
[00:57] <Keres> it would be cool to have one
[00:58] <OvenWerks> I don't know in that case... if the build wants to build it all that would be a problem
[00:58] <OvenWerks> yeah they are nice to have
[00:58] <Keres> why o why.
[00:59] <OvenWerks> For example a build all.
[00:59] <OvenWerks> not knowing the sw at all, I can't tell.
[00:59] <Keres> it  wont make install
[00:59] <Keres> ok, so this app is off the list.
[01:00] <OvenWerks> There may be a compiler or configure opyion that would fix it too.
[01:14] <Thr0r> OvenWerks: & Keres: Hi. I'm going to rip off all my old CD's and store them on my computer. I was told to use Asunder to get the music and I am using Parole to play it. Is that a good choice of tools or is it just the same what one use to create a library of ones old music? Talking about quality in both end - the copying and playback. What do you use? You seem to have some knowledge when it comes to sound and quality.. I have Ubunt
[01:14] <Thr0r> u studio 19.04 on the pc I'm using for that work.
[01:15] <OvenWerks> both are as good as the underlying codec
[01:15] <OvenWerks> Are you saving them as flac?
[01:17] <Thr0r> No - Wav uncompressed..
[01:17] <OvenWerks> that is as good as you will get for quality.
[01:17] <OvenWerks> flac should be the same in less space, but I don't know if flac has metadata
[01:18] <OvenWerks> ogg is lossy, but better than mp4 quality wise
[01:18] <OvenWerks> ogg does have meta data for sure
[01:19] <OerHeks> tons of compression settings in asunder
[01:19] <Thr0r> Ok - I don't know either - just want to make sure it's the best quality. Want it to last "into the unknown future"..
[01:19] <OerHeks> just test 3 songs in different settings
[01:20] <OvenWerks> a wav is the same, bit for nit as what the CD has on it.
[01:21] <Thr0r> ok.  And the tools I'm using is also ok? Asunder and Parole?
[01:22] <OerHeks> asunder .. never tried something else, actually
[01:22] <Thr0r> ok
[01:22] <OvenWerks> seems ok, I would tend to use audacious for playback, but parol has never been a problem for me either
[01:23] <Thr0r> ok thanks
[01:23] <OvenWerks> parol is a video player, audacious is audio only and may have more options.
[01:23] <OerHeks> mpv and clementine, are my players.
[01:24] <OerHeks> there are differences in players, i selected on fast handling large collections
[01:25] <Thr0r> Ok - I have taken notes of this advice and I will check them out.
[01:26]  * OvenWerks doesn't a large collection :)
[01:26] <OerHeks> 150k songs, maybe not that large ..
[01:26] <studiobot> graziano_palamara was removed by: graziano_palamara
[01:27] <OerHeks> and in those music folders hidden a ton of music clips ..
[01:35] <Keres> is there anyone here who is good with PD??
[01:36] <OvenWerks> probably not.
[01:36] <Thr0r> It's really cool to go thru the old cd collection :) Lots of memories, and I even find CD's that my (now adult) children burned when they was small...
[01:36] <OvenWerks> you may find a better responce on the LAU mailing list.
[01:38] <Thr0r> And don't hit me with that Off Topic - I know it was
[01:56] <Keres> yeah if you want to back up your CD's you use .wav
[01:57] <Keres> .flac is pretty good tho... if i were just backing up some CD's from the 1990s i would just use that.
[01:57] <Keres> ogg format is the best tho for portability
[01:57] <Keres> ogg is incredible
[01:58] <Keres> but ogg, you will notice the sound quality difference.
[01:58] <Keres> ogg is more for like... programmers to put into game soundtracks
[01:59] <Thr0r> Ok - I saw the .ogg files where really really small so something must be lost I figure..
[02:00] <Keres> as far as players for ubuntu studio, i am using mvp
[02:00] <Keres> vlc crashed on install here
[02:00] <Keres> think it might work now, but not willing to crash other sound apps to test it.
[02:01] <Keres> as far as rippers go... i havent used one in a while but an app called SoundJuicer comes to ming
[02:01] <Keres> mind
[02:39] <Thr0r> I checked out Audacious as player - it has a lot of settings i have to check out but so far I think Parole plays the songs best. On my system anyways. I'm using a samsung monitor with the sound there (it's no good) but I hear difference. Dire Straits/Love over Gold/ and the song Telegraph Road is a good song to test a thing or to with sound, especially the first minutes..
[02:43] <Keres> no, i havent seen audacious
[02:44] <Keres> the only thing i have done with media on here is firefox with tv.youtube.com into a live dsp effect
[02:44] <Keres> and catching up on the HBO Chernobyl
[02:44] <Keres> which... Parole failed in seeking back to where it crashed at so i installed mvp player
[02:45] <Keres> but the ability to remix audio from a live source is awesome
[02:47] <Thr0r> I will check this mvp player aswell - enjoy HBO "Chernobyl"
[02:55] <Thr0r> ... mvp player is not in the Ubuntu SW shop
[03:16] <Eickmeyer> !info gnome-mpv
[03:20] <Keres> mpv
[03:20] <Keres> sorry was watching basketball
[03:24] <Thr0r> ok - I'll Try.
[03:29] <Thr0r> Sorry for bothering you guys with all my Q's but this Linux thing and ubuntu studio really triggered something in me which I should have done years ago. The music, the sound. There's alot(!) of applications in ubuntu studio - so just be prepared for more Q's :)
[04:24] <Thr0r> Hmm.. Some say MPV is malware, some say it should not be listed, some like it.. I don't know. This is info from the Ubuntu shop..


[00:01] <Egghead> having trouble with lirc and pvr-150 cards, got two cards installed, one with ir and one without, could lirc be tring to the wrong card?
[00:02] <Egghead> oops, trying to connect to the wrong card?
[00:30] <npurciful> hey whats going on
[00:31] <npurciful> superm1:  no trunk build this week?
[00:34] <directhex> it went to the wrong place by the look of it. 0.20-fixes users reported a sudden silly version jump
[00:36] <alexvd_> directhex: do you use digital audio out?
[00:36] <directhex> i do, actually
[00:36] <npurciful> npurciful
[00:37] <directhex> this is your lucky day, really
[00:37] <alexvd_> any chance it is a envy chipset
[00:38] <alexvd_> directhex: I cant get my digital audio out to work.  My analog works fine but not digital out via optical.
[00:38] <directhex> it's bog standard intel hda
[00:38] <directhex> isn't there some utility for messing with envy boards? let me check
[00:39] <directhex> envy24control, alsa-tools-gui package
[00:39] <alexvd_> directhex: any issue with the optical out for intel. I thought thier was some kind of issue?
[00:40] <directhex> not that i've noticed. just flipped the IEC958 switch, and it JustWorked(tm)
[00:40] <alexvd_> shoot i have that on the mobo right now.  but i was told that it was wonky
[00:40] <npurciful> me too Audigy (creative)
[00:40] <alexvd_> going to pull that card
[00:42] <directhex> no joy with envy24control ?
[00:46] <directhex> BEDTIMEZ!
[01:03] <lime4x4> wierd error with nvc no password configured for VNC auth
[01:04] <lime4x4> i get the above error when trying to vnc into the mythbox
[01:04] <lime4x4> it was working then i had to reboot the box
[02:10] <famicon> goddammit
[02:11] <famicon> fuck this DVB-C shit is hard
[02:11]  * famicon hates kernel hacking
[02:11] <rhpot1991> !ohmy | famicon
[02:11] <ubotu> famicon: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
[02:14] <famicon> why is everyone allways so offended
[02:15] <famicon> i mean
[02:15] <famicon> its not like i'm raping schoolgirls or anything
[02:16] <rhpot1991> I'm just telling you to be careful
[02:16] <rhpot1991> there is a code of conduct and you can get yourself banned for offensive language
[02:17] <superm1> particularly https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
[02:18] <famicon> rhpot1991, do you happen to be an aspie by any chance
[02:18] <superm1> famicon, seriously watch what you are saying
[02:19] <rhpot1991> all I did was warn you out of courtesy so you don't get in trouble, go ahead and get yourself banned
[02:19] <famicon> yeah i know
[02:19] <famicon> i know
[02:20] <famicon> I jsut get annoyed at times about the whole "language" thing
[02:20] <famicon> I just don't understand why on earth people could be offended by it
[02:21] <superm1> you don't know the age of everyone in the channel
[02:21] <superm1> so there is a chance that youngsters may be in here
[02:21] <superm1> or watching over a parent's shoulder
[02:21] <superm1> its just to be courteous
[02:21] <famicon> well, kids use bad language all the time
[02:21] <famicon> whats the big deal
[02:21] <superm1> sure some kids do
[02:21] <superm1> but not all
[02:21] <superm1> and some parents try to not expose their kids
[02:22] <famicon> well those people should be gassed
[02:22] <famicon> but that's my personal view
[02:22] <famicon> doesnt mean i go enforce it on to others
[02:22] <superm1> it's the same reason there is a rating system on movies
[02:23] <superm1> and tv
[02:23] <superm1> so parents dont have to expose their kids to it if they would prefer not to
[02:23] <famicon> yeah but that's stupid
[02:23] <famicon> cause by the time they enter the real world those kids will get maimed
[02:24] <superm1> you're welcome to that opinion, but just respect the rules of #ubuntu* IRC channels
[02:24] <famicon> jawohl mein fuhrer!
[02:25] <famicon> o dammit
[02:25] <famicon> just godwinned myself
[02:25] <famicon> ok, you win, I'll be good
[02:25] <npurciful> failed again
[02:26] <superm1> the failed reason this time is different however
[02:26] <superm1> looks like some faac changes upstream
[02:27] <superm1> i wonder why hardy didn't hit these
[02:27] <npurciful> i dont know
[02:34] <npurciful> i wounder if i can build the plugin from source, manage to built mythtv
[03:16] <kmyth> how can i get mythbuntu to stop defaulting to 1600x1024 upon login?  i set it to 1280x720 and it just goes back to 1600x1024 upon reboot.
[03:29] <slestak> i have a gutsy mythbox that has been working fine for a couple of weeks.
[03:29] <slestak> maybe 1 week ago, i started getting errors on recording saying the file for a recording is not avaialable (going from memory)
[03:30] <slestak> im looking at mythfrontend.log right now, and when i move the ui to the recording that throws an error, it appears to be looking for the wrong filename.
[03:30] <rhpot1991> check for errors in /var/log/mythtv
[03:31] <slestak> the file it is logging as missing is 2008-02-05 22:28:45.052 Error: File '/var/lib/mythtv/recordings/1351_20080205200000.mpg' missing.
[03:31] <rhpot1991> verified that its missing?
[03:31] <slestak> note the timestamp is<PHONE_NUMBER>000, abt 2.5 hours ago
[03:32] <slestak> the recording in question was recordewd on 2/3, and is present, its name is
[03:32] <slestak> just a sec
[03:32] <slestak> 1352_20080203005500.mpg
[03:32] <slestak> and it plays fine in totem
[03:33] <rhpot1991> 1351_20080205200000.mpg != 1352_20080203005500.mpg
[03:33] <slestak> it just seems that FE is confused about the filename for that recording.  none of my recording in 2-3 days have worked.
[03:33] <slestak> rhpot1991: yes, you are right
[03:34] <slestak> but when i click on Nova, it tries to read the 20080205 mpg (which does not exist.)  i dont know haow it got that filename.
[03:35] <slestak> ive rebooted this machine, and the problem persists.
[03:36] <slestak> what is the part of the mpg filename before the underscore?
[03:36] <slestak> recording number?
[03:36] <rhpot1991> should be channel ID
[03:36] <rhpot1991> then date
[03:37] <slestak> basically, in its current state, i can play no new recordings, only recording from before 2/2
[03:37] <slestak> live tv works
[03:39] <slestak> well, guess i'll lurk over at m-u
[03:39] <slestak> thx
[03:40] <rhpot1991> can't say I've ever seen that happen, keep an eye out and see if anyone has an answer for you
[03:44] <npurciful> hah it final built (mythplugins that is)
[03:47] <slestak> rhpot1991: got a hint, maybe what is going on.
[03:48] <slestak> i think at 8pm, a second showing of the same show was aired
[03:48] <slestak> so i have an mpeg from 2/3, and the FE says the show is from 2/5
[03:49] <rhpot1991> the backend should be smart enough to know which one it recorded
[03:49] <rhpot1991> also you had a channel ID off, I think
[03:49] <rhpot1991> were they on different channels?
[03:49] <slestak> let me double check i read that correctly
[03:50] <slestak> i read it wrong, they are both 1352
[03:50] <rhpot1991> ok, that makes more sense
[03:50] <slestak> that is just a guess that it was seconf showing, i wonder if it would work if i watched it before the second showing arrived?
[03:51] <rhpot1991> did it record both?
[03:51] <slestak> no, just the first
[03:52] <slestak> wonder if i tried to watch, while the secod showing was running?
[03:52] <slestak> the same show is scheduled twice tomorrow, but it is marked as alreay recorded.
[03:54] <slestak> i just scheduled a 30 minute show starting in 10 minutes, see what happens
[03:54] <rhpot1991> check your recording file and see whats in there
[03:54] <slestak> wow, i need an ntp server for that box
[03:54] <rhpot1991> I have seen a recording accidentally contain 2 recordings before, for the life of me I can't recall what the cause was
[03:54] <slestak> its 3 minutes different from my laptop ;)
[03:56] <slestak> sometimes i have trouble watching a show that is currently being recorded.  i should be able to do that shouldnt i?
[03:56] <slestak> says the tuner is alreay in use
[03:57] <npurciful> slestak: uhh sudo install ntp
[03:57] <npurciful> forgot the apt-get
[03:57] <slestak> i'll get arond to it.  the recording problem is a bigger issue right now
[03:58]  * npurciful is updating to the latest SVN to break stuff that works
[03:59] <slestak> lol
[03:59] <npurciful> ahh, i like a challenge
[04:00] <slestak> crud.  looks liek up to a ft of snow tonight.
[04:00] <slestak> guess i better put thi sup so i can shovel in the morning
[04:07] <npurciful> sweet
[04:07] <npurciful> everything works
[04:10] <superm1> kmyth, modify your xorg.conf
[04:11] <superm1> to take out that res
[04:13] <npurciful> so superm1 what was the causing the problem
[04:13] <superm1> npurciful, faad in gutsy and hardy are different
[04:13] <npurciful> ahh
[04:14] <superm1> so in hardy there is a pathc that isn't necessary in gutsy
[04:14] <superm1> didnt become apparent though until this build
[04:15] <npurciful> ok
[04:15] <npurciful> i see
[04:25] <npurciful> i am callin it anight later
[05:03] <MythbuntuGuest19> is there any way to use the windows media center remote and transmitter to control my satillite box
[05:06] <superm1> easily in 7.10... no
[05:06] <superm1> in 8.04 its a lot easier
[05:06] <superm1> ( when that comes out )
[05:06] <MythbuntuGuest19> I have 7.10
[05:07] <MythbuntuGuest19> when does 8.04 come out
[05:14] <MythbuntuGuest99> with mceusb transmitter can I change channels on my satellite box
[05:19] <MythbuntuGuest52> can I use a mceusb transmitter to change channels on my satellite box
[05:32] <npurciful> anyone awake in here still
[07:54] <rhp> Hi all. I am experiencing crashes of mythfrontend when I try to export recordings to DVD. Also selecting the different steps is quite slow, but after "Create DVD" the mythfrontend window disappears. I do not see any logging that could indicate problems. Ideas?
[16:03] <rhp> Hi all. I am experiencing crashes of mythfrontend when I try to export recordings to DVD. Also selecting the different steps is quite slow, but after "Create DVD" the mythfrontend window disappears. I do not see any logging that could indicate problems. Ideas?
[16:04] <Tar1> try running mythfronted from a terminal
[16:04] <Tar1> that should give you some useful output to shed light on the problem
[16:04] <rhp> No difference.
[16:04] <rhp> It seems as if someone just programmed a exit(1) somewhere.
[16:05] <rhp> *poof*
[16:07]  * Tar1 shrugs
[16:14] <directhex|bsp> 0.20.2? 0.20 was hairy at times when making dvds
[16:31] <npurciful> strange error flushing buffer ... VIDIOCGCHAN: Invalid argument
[16:32] <npurciful> I am using SVN 15784, the error causes backend to go to 107% recording NTSC broadcast. Anyone know anything about this error?
[16:35] <npurciful> it records fine with the error, i just am looking to figure out if there is a really bug here
[16:36] <npurciful> I have checked trac, googled and removed cards and reinstalled them
[18:47] <akuma624> downloading the ISO right now
[20:20] <npurciful> strange error flushing buffer ... VIDIOCGCHAN: Invalid argument? I am using SVN 15784, the error causes backend to go to 107% recording NTSC broadcast v4l card. Anyone know anything about the error!
[22:06] <chuk1> is the mythbuntu 8.04 alpha avail for public download?
[23:33] <npurciful> superm1: you there?


[00:53] <qengho> Good morning!
[00:56] <jbicha> qengho: it's not actually morning for you though, right?
[00:57] <qengho> jbicha: it is, this month. UTC+8.
[00:59] <jbicha> ok, good morning to you then :)
[01:04] <qengho> :)
[06:08] <pitti> Good morning
[06:59] <desrt> pitti: hi!
[06:59] <desrt> quiet morning :)
[06:59] <pitti> hey desrt, how are you?
[06:59] <desrt> pretty good.  leaving the basque country this evening to return home to germany
[06:59] <pitti> "home to germany"?
[06:59] <pitti> didn't that use to be "Canada"?
[07:00] <desrt> "it's complicated" ;)
[07:00] <desrt> home is still toronto, but köln is increasingly "second home"
[07:00] <pitti> hah
[07:00] <desrt> i'm filling out paperwork for a residence permit, even
[07:01] <desrt> (since i'm overstaying the tourist visa)
[07:02] <pitti> I'll be in Koeln this Saturday for half an hour
[07:02] <desrt> cgn?
[07:02] <pitti> for changing trains to Delft (seb's place)
[07:02] <desrt> or hbf?
[07:02] <pitti> hbf
[07:02] <pitti> we'll have a little sprint there for systemdifying the desktop session
[07:02] <desrt> unfortunately, i will be on my way to poland this saturday :)
[07:03] <desrt> cool!
[07:03]  * desrt is off for two weeks starting ... next week
[07:04] <desrt> please make sure you do dbus user sessions :)
[07:04] <pitti> desrt: it already does
[07:04] <desrt> ah.  great.
[07:04] <desrt> still not the default in debian :(
[07:04] <pitti> https://launchpad.net/~pitti/+archive/ubuntu/systemd-session has the prototype
[07:11] <desrt> i hope you guys have fun :)
[07:37] <pitti> desrt: two words: Space Cookies!
[07:37] <desrt> lol
[07:37] <desrt> i honestly didn't peg you for the type :)
[07:38] <pitti> desrt: indeed I suck at drugs; I don't smoke, don't drink coffee, and drink very little alcohol too
[07:38] <pitti> and I think I've had two shishas in my entire lift
[07:38] <desrt> ...but a little spacecake here and there is obviously fine for anyone ;)
[07:38] <pitti> yeah, I'm curiuos about those :)
[07:38] <pitti> "When in Rome, do as the Romans do"
[07:38] <desrt> one bit of advice: don't over-do it...
[07:39] <desrt> ie: after you eat one, you might feel that nothing is happening, so you need to have a few more... don't do that.  it takes a bit of time :)
[07:39] <pitti> I won't, you know me
[07:39] <pitti> I'm addicted to work and sport, but that's pretty much it
[07:40] <desrt> (i mean, unless you want to get positively silly... which might also be fun... i kinda wish i was going to be there now, in fact) :)
[07:40] <pitti> yeah, would have been really close from Cologne
[07:40] <desrt> will be in berlin the weekend following for the wedding of an old friend ...
[07:42] <hikiko> popey, ping :)
[07:42] <hikiko> (+good morning!)
[07:48] <popey> hikiko: hi
[07:49] <hikiko> hi popey
[07:49] <hikiko> I was wondering if you find a solution to this problem:
[07:50] <hikiko> https://askubuntu.com/questions/787258/internal-server-error-when-retrieving-files-from-the-archive-in-lxd
[07:50] <hikiko> found*
[07:54] <popey> not had the issue recently
[07:55] <popey> sorry
[07:55] <hikiko> ok, thanks popey
[07:57] <Trevinho> morning
[08:04] <Laney> moin!
[08:05] <seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
[08:07] <pitti> hey Laney, hey seb128!
[08:08] <seb128> lut pitti, wie gehts?
[08:09] <pitti> gut, danke!
[08:09] <pitti> a bit tired, shouldn't have worked until 1, but I'll cope :)
[08:09] <pitti> when I say "Britney kept me up for so long", that sounds a lot more exciting that it actually was :-P
[08:10] <seb128> haha
[08:11] <Laney> hey seb128 and pitti!
[08:12] <Laney> I am food for mosquito
[08:12] <Laney> my hand is big
[08:13] <seb128> :-(
[08:13] <seb128> got bitten at debconf?
[08:14] <Laney> nope
[08:14] <Laney> at the allotment
[08:14] <Laney> that place is dangerous
[08:15] <pitti> is it so damp there?
[08:17] <Laney> hmmmm
[08:17] <Laney> what do they like to hang around?
[08:17] <Laney> there's a lot of vegetation
[08:17] <seb128> water?
[08:18] <Laney> and these 1m³ water things
[08:18] <Laney> not particularly near where I was, but maybe they roam looking for something tasty
[08:19] <seb128> internet says they like beer
[08:19] <seb128> stop drinking at the allotment!
[08:19] <seb128> ;-)
[08:21] <pitti> I have six beer traps in our garden against the snails, but they don't seem to attract mosquitos
[08:22] <seb128> yeah, that page was more saying that they seem to be prefer to bite beer drinkers
[08:22] <Laney> O_O
[08:23] <seb128> like if a few people are at the same place the mosquitos are more likely to go for those who had a few beers
[08:23] <davmor2> Laney: switch to cider you'll be fine
[08:23] <pitti> seb128: ah, they might like the breath :)
[08:25] <Laney> long clothes only there from now on :P
[09:05] <andyrock> morning
[09:13] <Sweet5hark> willcooke: en, es, pt, de, fr, it, ru, pt_BR libreoffice snap build finished, its 348MB.
[09:13] <Sweet5hark> havent played with it yet.
[09:15] <seb128> hey andyrock Sweet5hark
[09:16] <seb128> Sweet5hark, how big was the no-l10n one?
[09:16] <Sweet5hark> seb128: 289MB IIRC
[09:16] <seb128> k, 348 seems reasonable
[09:16] <seb128> good work!
[09:22] <willcooke> Sweet5hark, \m/  thanks
[09:22] <willcooke> Sweet5hark, can you upload today do you think?
[09:22] <willcooke> hey andyrock
[09:22] <Sweet5hark> willcooke: yes
[09:23] <willcooke> Sweet5hark, double metal hands!
[09:56]  * Laney eyes yakkety
[09:57] <Laney> is compiz busted?
[09:57] <Laney> ...in vms?
[09:58] <willcooke> Laney, are you running proposed?
[10:00] <Laney> nope
[10:01] <Laney> but there isn't a compiz there
[10:01] <willcooke> hrmm
[10:01] <willcooke> then I don't know.  hikiko ^
[10:01] <Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1599900
[10:08] <hikiko> hey
[10:08] <Laney> roh
[10:09] <Laney> pitti: ddebs.u.c hasn't updated since 05/07, is that known?
[10:09] <hikiko> isn't it the bug that was caused by the broken daily build packages willcooke ?
[10:09] <willcooke> hikiko, oh, I thought that was only for proposed?  But yeah, it sounds like the same thing right?
[10:10] <hikiko> yes, I think it was caused because some compiz files were missing
[10:10] <Laney> is there a fix?
[10:10] <pitti> Laney: hm, I was working on it last week and recovered some stuff, but I re-enabled the cronjob on Monday, so "not known"
[10:10] <pitti> and it's actually running (since 1 am today, so quite long)
[10:10] <Laney> pitti: 'k, I saw something about a private PPA broke it or something
[10:10] <Laney> is it going to finish?
[10:11] <pitti> Laney: I think cjwatson fixed that the other day
[10:11] <hikiko> Laney, no, compiz crashed after an upgrade, then next upgrade fixed the issue: half of the lowgfx files weren't in the package in that daily build that's why
[10:11] <pitti> Laney: not sure, I'll give it another few hours and kill it this afternoon
[10:11] <hikiko> now the package is complete, at least I don't have that issue anymore
[10:12] <hikiko> Laney, I think Trevinho could help more
[10:12] <pitti> Laney: actually, I'll kill it right now; no point if the previous few runs didn't update indexes
[10:12]  * pitti runs in foreground
[10:12] <Laney> pitti: ack
[10:13] <Laney> pitti: It'd be nice if you could make it put the log file somewhere, assuming it writes useful things
[10:13] <Laney> hikiko: you mean the packaging is busted and that's not yet fixed?
[10:13] <pitti> I get failures via cron maill, but I can add some logging, yes
[10:13] <pitti> it normally runs with --quiet via cron
[10:13] <Laney> pitti: > ~/public_html/current.log
[10:13] <hikiko> Laney, I think the package was busted and was fixed
[10:14]  * Laney checks ci train
[10:14] <hikiko> but Trevinho knows better about the package
[10:14] <Laney> nein
[13:32] <dbarth> seb128: hello
[13:32] <dbarth> seb128: we have a silo full of webbrowser-app/container SRU fixes
[13:32] <dbarth> (the OA one has a problem however)
[13:32] <dbarth> just to let you know
[13:35] <seb128> dbarth, hey, oh, good! are you trying to aim for lts .1? you might be a bit short for that
[13:36] <dbarth> seb128: yeah .1, but tell me
[13:36] <dbarth> but they are are if there is still time
[13:37] <seb128> I can't properly parse that
[13:37] <dbarth> seb128: that's silo 051, at https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1650
[13:37] <seb128> but I'm not in the team dealing with SRU or .1
[13:37] <seb128> but .1 is next week and things need to spend a week in proposed and there is the iso testing
[13:37] <dbarth> ah
[13:37] <seb128> so looks tight to me
[13:37] <seb128> check with #ubuntu-release I guess
[13:38] <dbarth> but so do i still need to subscribe the release team, or do they get a notification from the ci system now?
[13:38] <dbarth> hmm, ok; i'ĺl check there; like at the good old time ;)
[14:34] <Laney> no Trevinho today?
[14:34] <Trevinho> Laney: yeah sure...
[14:35]  * Laney eyes Stealtinho
[14:35] <Trevinho> Laney: I morning'ed few minutes before you did :)
[14:35] <Laney> you got highlighted many hours ago
[14:35] <Laney> any clue about compiz in yakkety?
[14:36] <Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1599900
[14:38] <Laney> biab
[14:39] <Trevinho> Laney: yeah, I noticed that but I was working in u8 stuff...
[14:39] <Trevinho> anyway
[14:40] <seb128> channel is quiet nowadays!
[14:43] <seb128> Trevinho, hikiko said there was a packaging error in yakkety and you had a fix?
[14:43] <Trevinho> seb128: my yakkety wm worked, but I didn't check that much... Let me finish a thing and I'll check that again
[14:44] <seb128> k
[15:43] <Trevinho> Laney, seb128: is that bug somewhat reproducible in VMs or where? Is there a pattern for that
[15:44] <Trevinho> ?
[15:44] <seb128> it's reproducible in VMs it seems
[15:44] <seb128> m_deslaur had it the other day
[15:44] <seb128> seems it only does it with the lowgfx profile
[15:45] <seb128> if the ubuntu profile is forced it works
[15:45] <seb128> on yakkety
[15:45] <Trevinho> mhmh
[15:45] <seb128> it's 3 people reporting the issue here now, so it does look like it's any yakkety install
[15:48] <Trevinho> seb128: mh, ok... installing a new daily should cause that issue too?
[15:49] <Trevinho> seb128: or, should I downgrade and...then upgrade?
[15:53] <seb128> I didn't try daily so I don't know
[15:53] <seb128> I guess you could try to start from xenial and just upgrade unity/compiz
[15:54] <Trevinho> my VM worked though... but I upgraded from silo. And I had acceleration there
[15:54] <Trevinho> but when forcing low_gfx it was working anyway
[15:56] <seb128> sorry but I don't know how other tries, maybe Laney or mdeslaur can help you
[15:56] <seb128> going for some exercice here
[15:56] <seb128> bbiab
[16:30] <Laney> back
[16:30] <Laney> Trevinho: I just boot yakkety in virt-manager
[16:30] <Trevinho> Laney: mh, latest daily?
[16:30] <Laney> yes
[16:30] <Laney> zsynced it today
[16:30] <Trevinho> Laney: so, no need to upgrade from something, right?
[16:31] <Laney> it did work in the live cd though I think
[16:31] <Laney> although I got an apport report there, compiz still came up
[16:31] <Laney> after installing it doesn't work at all
[16:31] <Laney> fresh install
[16:31] <Laney> [and then after you install in this environment you will be able to add the 3.20 ppa and reproduce my nautilus bug too :)]
[16:31] <Laney> [muhahaha]
[16:32] <Laney> ximion is stalking my github account!
[16:32] <ximion> Laney: hey :) - I lost you at the crab tank ^^
[16:32] <Laney> yeah
[16:33] <Laney> I looked for you
[16:33] <ximion> I hope you had a safe and less exhausting trip home :)
[16:33] <Laney> and the next morning too, saw juliank
[16:33] <Laney> oh well
[16:33] <Laney> it was straightforward, although I had to wait in london for ages
[16:33] <ximion> oh, wow - well, I was there but didn't find you
[16:33] <Laney> because the trains didn't start for 2 hours or so
[16:34] <ximion> by running, I reached the first train and didn't have to wait one more hour at the airport :)
[16:34] <ximion> meh
[16:34] <Laney> nice
[16:39] <ximion> Laney: btw, the patches look good ^^ - you might want to take a look at https://github.com/iainlane/appstream-generator/commit/8f6043ebdceb42ff3286e3c75baf37b7bf41376d#diff-48d56bbd66b466a8c4f37abaae1fec96L58 though, that would break at Debian unless we also switch to xz soon
[16:39] <Laney> it needs to try more things
[16:39] <Laney> not proposed yet because the environment isn't set up properly
[16:40] <Laney> so can't really do an end to end test
[16:40] <ximion> but I just quickly simmed through the things, so no review done yet ^^
[16:40] <Laney> that http/ftp stuff sucks
[16:40] <Laney> maybe it can be done better
[16:40] <Laney> no hangs with it like this though
[16:40] <ximion> there are other libraries which do this stuff, but the curl lib is the most advanced one so far
[16:41] <ximion> but I understand why the standard library maintainers want to throw it out as soon as possible :P
[16:44] <ximion> Laney: https://github.com/ikod/dlang-requests is better, but it doesn't support the CAInfo feature yet
[16:46] <Laney> system ("curl...")
[16:47] <ximion> well.... :D
[16:48] <Laney> :>
[16:49] <ximion> spawning stuff has sane API ^^ https://dlang.org/phobos/std_process.html
[16:50] <ximion> except for stuff like browse(), which I wouldn't have defined or named openPath() and have it open any path with the default app :P
[17:24] <Laney> hmm
[17:24] <Laney> is xdg autostart just broken?
[17:24]  * Laney gets confused
[17:28] <Laney> HMMMMMMMMMMMM
[17:29] <Trevinho> Laney: mh, well... So I'm getting the crash too, but the weird thing is that... maybe it crash on first start... as things run at the end
[17:29] <Laney> did you install?
[17:30] <n0de01> Hi! I'm trying to install eclipse through umake (sudo umake ide eclipse). However I get eclipse as an invalid choice (umake ide: error: argument framework: invalid choice: 'eclipse' (choose from 'lighttable', 'visual-studio-code') Could somebody please help me with this error ?)
[17:34] <Laney> night
[17:36] <Trevinho> Laney: nope, but it happens also when launching the daily
[17:37] <n0de01> Seems to be a bug.  Launchpad bug 1591294 in ubuntu-make (Ubuntu) ""umake ide eclipse" returns "invalid choice" despite what manpage says" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1591294.
[17:59] <Trevinho> seb128: you here?
[18:10] <willcooke> night all, off tomorrow, back friday
[19:05] <seb128> Trevinho, sorry, was around but on my way to dinner, better to just ask your question so when I walk by I might be able to reply even if I don't want to stop to start a discussion
[19:28] <Trevinho> seb128: since there are fixes for that crashes that needs to resubmit a compiz build... What's the way to do that for the SRU?
[20:10] <seb128> Trevinho, unsure, ask on #ubuntu-ci-eng, I think you can re-iterate/force a rebuild&landing which it's in proposed
[20:11] <seb128> but I would probably just force merge the current silo
[20:11] <seb128> then do a new landing with the followup bugfixes


[08:51] <dasti> hi
[08:54] <alkisg> Hello
[08:55] <dasti> I'm looking for a tutorial to make the live ubuntu mat usb key persistent, any good links ?
[08:56] <alkisg> The usb creator has an option to enable persistence
[08:57] <dasti> strange th version I have here just ask me a source iso and a usb target and that' s it
[08:57] <reptarius> hi i lookin on sometroy1 is he here?
[08:59] <alkisg> dasti, no such option? http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/startupdiskcreator.jpg
[09:00] <dasti> it' s definitively not there
[09:00] <dasti> (running ubuntu mate 16.04.1)
[09:01] <alkisg> usb-creator (0.3.0) xenial; urgency=medium  [ Marc Deslauriers ]
[09:01] <alkisg>   * Rework the whole imaging process for writing to devices:    - Use an equivalent of dd to make an exact copy of the image to the device    - This also breaks persistence.
[09:01] <alkisg> ...so yeah you're right, it's not there since usb-creator 0.3.0
[09:01] <alkisg> They probably did that to support both uefi and bios
[09:03] <dasti> I found tutorials on wiki.ubuntu.com but it seems oudated
[09:05] <alkisg> Btw, it's always possible to just do a regular installation in the usb drive
[09:05] <alkisg> And maybe mkusb will work too, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/mkusb/persistent
[09:11] <dasti> ok thanks for the informations, I' m going to try the install directly on the usb kery :)
[09:11] <reptarius> hi
[09:16] <alkisg> Hello reptarius
[09:17] <reptarius> hello, how are you?
[09:18] <alkisg> I'm fine thank you. Note though that this is a linux support channel, so its topics are restricted to that.
[09:21] <reptarius> okay thanks, but i dont question, i'm loooking of new people's  for my friendlist, i'm a  new user of ubuntu. ^
[09:21] <reptarius> ^^
[09:22] <reptarius> okay, write this ohter, i'm new user of Linux by Ubuntu new
[09:22] <dasti> welcome in the community :)
[09:23] <reptarius> thanks guys ^^
[12:24] <SWAT> I've just installed 16.04.1 and apparantly my ATI cards works fine (with radeon module), but the Intel card doesn't at all. The Intel card gives a black screen only, but exists (since my mouse can move there and it's visible through xrandr). Any advice?
[12:50] <niels__> Hi there! My brandnew laptop with Mate 16.04 doesn't detect the battery. When I type acpi in the terminal, then I get: No support for device type: power_supply. But acpi is installed: #acpi -v gives me: acpi 1.7. I have called for help on ubuntuforums/general help and also on ask.ubuntu at stackexchange. I got Several hundred views, but not a single reply!!! Has anybody an idea?
[13:19] <SWAT> niels__: how 'new' is your laptop? When was the model first released?
[13:32] <waltersraspberry> hello
[13:33] <waltersraspberry> i need help
[13:34] <waltersraspberry> hello i need help
[13:38] <niels__> Hi! I don't know when the model was first released. You can see the details here: https://www.mysn.de/schenker-flex-notebooks/schenker-f516
[13:44] <pavlushka> !help | waltersraspberry
[13:45] <waltersraspberry> how can i start dydns
[13:45] <waltersraspberry> and make telegram on raspberry pi with ubuntu mate
[17:40] <alohm> Hello all. Love Mate. Just ran into my first issue that a search did not easily find.
[17:40] <alohm> where do I go to adjust places links? The downloads link changed to another dir?
[17:40] <alohm> in caja
[17:42] <alkisg> alohm: I think in .config/user-dirs.dirs
[17:42] <alkisg> It's not specific to a file manager, it's the same to all desktop environments afaik
[17:42] <alohm> I will look now
[17:42] <alohm> oh nice ty
[17:46] <alohm> Donne tyvm. Not sure why I didnt see that file in caja but cli found it
[17:46] <alohm> tyvm.
[17:46] <alohm> I found that on google but no file? With your help I looked harder assuming the info was more correct. Thanks again.
[17:47] <alkisg> Ctrl+H in caja enables showing hidden files
[17:47] <alkisg> Files starting with a dot are "hidden" in linux ls and file manager
[17:48] <alohm> I had them shown? Oh well pebkac error lol
[17:48] <alohm> ty again
[17:48] <alkisg> You're welcome; note that you might need to logoff /logon for the change to take effect
[17:48] <alohm> I used cli and ls
[17:49] <alohm> nope immediately effective. and a much better option than addiing bookmarks. that is how it got screwed up by the way
[19:30] <jsum> anyone knows an app or way to password protect hosts file ?
[19:30] <jsum> without encrypting it, so it can function properly
[19:31] <Akuli> ...use a custom hosts file to look up your ip-s? :D
[19:33] <jsum> Well, what I'm looking to achieve is that I will give the password to a family member so I can no longer access it, neither with the password or another way
[19:33] <jsum> Kind of too general question here but glad you responded
[19:34] <Akuli> if someone doesn't have access to the hosts file do you expect him to still be able to run applications that use it?
[19:35] <Akuli> thats obviously not possible
[19:35] <Akuli> also, are you talking about the same hosts file i am talking about=
[19:35] <Akuli> ?
[19:35] <jsum>  /etc/hosts
[19:36] <Akuli> ok so we are
[19:36] <jsum> Let me be more specific, I want to stop me from accessing certain websites
[19:36] <Akuli> without seeing a list of them?
[19:36] <jsum> I will be putting them there myself :P
[19:37] <Akuli> then whats the problem?
[19:37] <Akuli> or do you want to prevent others from seeing the list?
[19:38] <jsum> I will be putting some websites in hosts file that I don't want me to visit ( to control myself ). I want to password protect the hosts file ( someone else will put the password so I don't know )
[19:39] <jsum> and I'm looking for an app or way to do so
[19:39] <Akuli> the only way to do that is with permissions
[19:39] <Akuli> and if your other users can sudo there's no way to do that
[19:39] <jsum> but what prevents me from logging in as root ?
[19:40] <Akuli> nothing
[19:40] <Akuli> as you can see
[19:40] <Akuli> not everyone should be able to sudo
[19:41] <jsum> so I should put another person to change root password so he only knows the password. make a user with root permissions except from that one file and use the new user instead?
[19:42] <Akuli> what do you mean
[19:42] <Akuli> root permissions are like all or nothing
[19:42] <jsum> Indeed :s
[19:42] <Akuli> not like "root permissions except this and that"
[19:42] <jsum> You are correct
[19:43] <Akuli> so your user should not be root
[19:43] <Akuli> let me guess.. you're about to give your child his/her first computer? :D
[19:43] <jsum> hahah no :P
[19:44] <jsum> I'm actually trying to prevent myself from wasting my time
[19:44] <jsum> so I can be more productive
[19:44] <jsum> lack of will :/
[19:44] <Akuli> oh there we go
[19:44] <Akuli> just get a browser addon that allows you to block whatever sites you want
[19:45] <jsum> can I pm you?
[19:45] <Akuli> why?
[19:45] <Akuli> you can if you need to, of course :)
[19:45] <jsum> just not to spam the channel I guess
[19:45] <jsum> kk
[19:46] <Akuli> nobody else needs help here right now, so its not really spamming :)
[19:46] <jsum> Well, then what prevents me from removing the browser plugin ? :P
[19:47] <Akuli> you can't prevent yourself from doing things anyway :)
[19:47] <Akuli> you're root on your computer, you know your stuff
[19:47] <jsum> I see
[19:49] <jsum> thank you mate, I will try and figure something out but it seems I'm limited
[19:49] <Akuli> another option is to set up another computer
[19:49] <Akuli> and access internet through it
[19:50] <Akuli> but you could always just connect to the internet directly instead of through that other computer, or reinstall to get root access..
[19:50] <jsum> yeah :P
[19:50] <jsum> I guess I will take the simpler way then
[19:50] <jsum> and exercise my WILL !
[19:53] <ouroumov_> Yeah, that or renounce admin rights
[19:53] <Akuli> like i said, reinstallation will give them back to him
[19:53] <Akuli> reinstallation
[19:53] <Akuli> lol
[19:54] <ouroumov_> So make reinst too risky.
[19:54] <ouroumov_> BIOS password on laptops.
[19:54] <jsum> and time consuming :P
[19:54] <ouroumov_> Locked boot order.
[19:54] <Akuli> no way to back up files...
[20:00] <netvixtra> I installed ubuntu-mate and gave the computer to my 4-yo
[20:00] <netvixtra> It's still alive.
[20:05] <Akuli> netvixtra, nice to know!
[20:05] <Akuli> i got my first computer at around that age
[20:05] <Akuli> it was an old windows 95 and i used paint and word with it :D
[20:06] <Akuli> netvixtra, if he/she is interested in maths or computers in general, introduce him/her to the awesome world of programming :) he/she will love it
[20:08] <netvixtra> I guess he has to learn basics first..
[20:08] <Akuli> programming really doesn't take much :)
[20:08] <Akuli> a text editor and a terminal
[20:08] <Akuli> ubuntu mate comes with all that
[20:08] <Akuli> or just a terminal to get started
[20:09] <Akuli> i often wish i had found out programming at the age of four :(
[20:09] <Akuli> i found it when i was 15
[20:09] <rahtgaz> But you did. It was called LEGO
[20:09] <jsum> hahah
[20:09] <jsum> :o
[20:10] <Akuli> rahtgaz, i did spend a lot of time with legos
[20:10] <Akuli> and it was fun
[20:10] <rahtgaz> Who hasn't :)
[20:10] <Akuli> but really, programming is not hard
[20:10] <Akuli> open a terminal and type python3, then type: print("Hello world!")
[20:11] <Akuli> you wrote code!:D
[20:12] <Akuli> better yet
[20:12] <Akuli> type 1+2
[20:12] <Akuli> :D
[20:12] <Akuli> 1+2
[20:13] <rahtgaz> exit() also works. It's code too! ;)
[20:13] <Akuli> or just Ctrl+D :) the real thing is sys.exit though
[20:13] <Akuli> you don't want to rely on the site module
[20:14] <Akuli> seriously though, i think a nice way to get him started with programming would be irc
[20:15] <Akuli> if he would come to a beginner-friendly programming channel like "hi im 4 years old" that'd be just awesome :D
[20:16] <rahtgaz> I don't know... I have a different view on that
[20:16] <Akuli> rahtgaz, not #python, definitely not #python
[20:17] <rahtgaz> Programming is awesome and fun. But at the age of 4 I think it shouldn't be up to the parents to start implanting choices on their kids.
[20:17] <Akuli> but netvixtra definitely has a point too
[20:17] <rahtgaz> #python is ok. Why you say that?
[20:17] <Akuli> starting slowly is a great idea, i spent about 2 weeks with print and input when i was getting started
[20:18] <Akuli> rahtgaz, its huge
[20:18] <rahtgaz> oh right
[20:18] <Akuli> its great for advanced people, not for beginners
[20:18] <Akuli> i wonder how young linus was when he started
[20:18] <Akuli> in some interview he mentioned that he was young, but i dont know how young
[20:19] <rahtgaz> I was 15 myself. On a ZXSpectrum
[20:19] <rahtgaz> He was about that age too
[20:19] <Akuli> thinking about this a bit more, you're right
[20:19] <Akuli> 4 years is pretty young..
[20:20] <Akuli> i'd say a nice time is when he has learned basics in math, like multiplication and division
[20:20] <rahtgaz> In our time there weren't computers available at home. In europe it was the ZXSpectrum in the early 80s that started our generation of programmers. and we were in our early to mid teens
[20:20] <Akuli> which operating systems did you work with?
[20:21] <Akuli> unix-likes or ms dos?
[20:22] <rahtgaz> Well, there was no OS. That console has a BASIC interpreter and also allowed for machine code. We had to write directly on metal.
[20:22] <Akuli> ok :)
[20:22] <rahtgaz> MSDOS was a few years away when amstrad started selling the first affordable computers.
[20:23] <Akuli> david beazley has a video where he has connected his old computer running basic to the internet :D
[20:25] <rahtgaz> yah. there's plenty of stuff like that :) There's also large communities around those old systems still.  I was about to ask for a loan
[20:28] <jsum> gladly
[20:29] <rahtgaz> oooh!
[20:29] <rahtgaz> ;)
[20:29] <jsum> anything except money though :P
[20:29] <rahtgaz> bah! darn!
[23:29] <mr-robot-oo7> Hello everyone, where can I locate the boot up settings please? Just installed it, been testing it and I notice my laptop is rather running hot fast.
[23:34] <mr-robot-oo7> okay, never mind...Bye
[23:40] <jsum> well that was disappointing
[23:40] <nomic> he waited 10 seconds
[23:41] <nomic> they xpect on irc
[23:41] <nomic> mebbe burned up
[23:42] <nomic> 'running hot'
[23:42] <jsum> hehe


[05:12] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Unapproved: rejected lubuntu-update-notifier [source] (jammy-proposed) [0.5.1~22.04.1]
[05:14] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Unapproved: lubuntu-update-notifier (jammy-proposed/universe) [0.4 => 0.5.1~22.04.2] (lubuntu)
[05:16] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Unapproved: rejected lubuntu-update-notifier [source] (kinetic-proposed) [0.5.1~22.10.1]
[05:17] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Unapproved: lubuntu-update-notifier (kinetic-proposed/universe) [0.4 => 0.5.1~22.10.2] (lubuntu)
[05:36] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Unapproved: accepted lubuntu-update-notifier [source] (jammy-proposed) [0.5.1~22.04.2]
[05:37] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Unapproved: accepted lubuntu-update-notifier [source] (kinetic-proposed) [0.5.1~22.10.2]
[05:38] <arraybolt3> \o/ Rejoice, we conquer! lubuntu-update-notifier SRU has been allowed through!
[08:51] <guiverc> well done & thank you for your persistence arraybolt3
[08:52] <arraybolt3> :)
 Well done @arraybolt3
[17:06] -ubot93:#lubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 1998937 in lubuntu-update-notifier (Ubuntu Kinetic) "Lubuntu Jammy - full upgrade freeze waiting for config file prompt" [High, In Progress]
[17:07]  * lubot [matrix] <arraybolt3> didn't know that was a feature


[12:06] <porkpie1> I think I need to exit and go back in
[12:07] <ivoks> entering and exiting shell won't fix kernel and mounts
[12:08] <porkpie1> OK  ...go throught the exersise again
[12:08] <ivoks> umount -f /mnt
[12:08] <ivoks> try that
[12:09] <ivoks> then insert stick and mount it
[12:09] <porkpie1> failed
[12:09] <porkpie1> forced umount of (null) failed!
[12:09] <ivoks> porkpie1: what failed?
[12:09] <ivoks> ok
[12:10] <ivoks> does 'mount' show that your stick is mounted?
[12:10] <porkpie1> no
[12:10] <ivoks> then just mount it
[12:10] <ivoks> hopefully, filesystem isn't destroyed
[12:13] <porkpie1> OK shall I email them to you
[12:13] <ivoks> ok
[12:13] <ivoks><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:16] <porkpie1> you should have them
[12:17] <ivoks> ok
[12:18] <porkpie1> what are you looking for in those files
[12:22] <ivoks> ideas for solution
[12:24] <ivoks> it detects disk beforce it detects PERC
[12:24] <ivoks> that's odd, don't you think
[12:24] <porkpie1> I noticed in the dmesg
[12:25] <porkpie1> yeah ..why does it do that
[12:25] <ivoks> this dmesg lacks first part :/
[12:25] <porkpie1> do you want me to run it again
[12:25] <ivoks> how many disks do you have in there?
[12:25] <porkpie1> 2
[12:26] <ivoks> but it detects 3...
[12:26] <ivoks> i assume sdc is raid
[12:26] <ivoks> so...
[12:26] <porkpie1> yep
[12:26] <ivoks> it shouldn't detect sda and sdb
[12:27] <porkpie1> hmm!
[12:27] <ivoks> this dmesg isn't enough
[12:27] <porkpie1> It does say Driver sd needs updating  please use bus_type methods
[12:27] <ivoks> that's not the problem
[12:28] <porkpie1> tell me what you need
[12:28] <ivoks>  /var/log/syslog if it exsist
[12:29] <Hobo_Joe> Hi Guys, I am trying to set-up a static IP address on Ubuntu Server 6... I have just installed using LAMP. What is the file I need to edit to do this?
[12:29] <ivoks> or /var/log/kern.log
[12:29] <ivoks> Hobo_Joe: /etc/network/interfaces
[12:29] <porkpie1> OK ....I will need to run the install again ...I switched the server off  ..it was giving me  a headache
[12:29] <ivoks> :)
[12:29] <Hobo_Joe> ivoks: Thanks I will give that a try
[12:29] <ivoks> Hobo_Joe: man interfaces
[12:30] <ivoks> porkpie1: but hurry up... it's 00:30AM here
[12:30] <porkpie1> OK
[12:30] <porkpie1> doing it now
[12:30] <porkpie1> 4mins
[12:31] <Hobo_Joe> ivoks: tnx
[12:35] <porkpie1> no kern.log
[12:35] <porkpie1> only syslog
[12:35] <ivoks> ok, syslog then
[12:36] <Hobo_Joe> ive edited interfaces, how do I make the changes apply?
[12:36] <porkpie1> ivoks:you have it
[12:36] <ivoks> Hobo_Joe: sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart
[12:36] <Hobo_Joe> ta
[12:37] <ivoks> porkpie1: lol, how many CPUs are there? :)
[12:37] <porkpie1> 2 dual cores
[12:37] <ivoks> 2 dual core with ht enabled :)
[12:38] <ivoks> that makes 8 of them :?)
[12:38] <porkpie1> :)
[12:38] <porkpie1> with VT enabled
[12:38] <Hobo_Joe> bleh, I know that by default you cant login as root on Ubuntu, but is there an easy way to do this?
[12:38] <Hobo_Joe> (loging in as root)
[12:39] <ivoks> Hobo_Joe: sudo passwd
[12:39] <stu_> what happens if you do try and login as root?
[12:39] <stu_> cos if you can login, sudo passwd root
[12:39] <ivoks> porkpie1: ok, could you do modprobe -r megaraid_sas
[12:40] <ivoks> that probably woudn't work
[12:41] <Hobo_Joe> YAY root rules
[12:42] <ivoks> porkpie1: ?
[12:42] <porkpie1> ?
[12:42] <stu_> ?
[12:42] <ivoks> modprobe -r megaraid_sas
[12:42] <porkpie1> ivoks:it returned nothing
[12:43] <ivoks> great, then it worked
[12:43] <ivoks> now try going to partitioner
[12:43] <porkpie1> what worked ?
[12:43] <ivoks> removing megaraid_sas module from kernel
[12:43] <porkpie1> I can't get to the patitioner
[12:44] <ivoks> how come>
[12:44] <porkpie1> dunno
[12:44] <porkpie1> looks like the kernel has crashed
[12:44] <ivoks> eh...
[12:44] <porkpie1> I'm there
[12:44] <porkpie1> sorry
[12:44] <ivoks> so, any discs in partitioner?
[12:45] <porkpie1> hmm! it hasn't loaded
[12:45] <porkpie1> I have a blue screen
[12:45] <ivoks> tya
[12:46] <ivoks> i'm cluless
[12:46] <porkpie1> ivoks::(
[12:46] <ivoks> it looks like megaraid_sas detects both disks and raid
[12:46] <porkpie1> ivoks:I think I am doomed :(
[12:48] <ivoks> you should talk to someone from ubuntu-kernel
[12:48] <porkpie1> I have a message that reads partman: Reading all physical volumes   this may take a while ...thats when I did alt+f4
[12:49] <ivoks> basicly, partitioner crashed
[12:51] <ivoks> hm...
[12:51] <ivoks> that was rather rude...
[12:51] <ivoks> bye all
[06:58] <grandy> hello... i'm having trouble with the megaraid driver on dapper and i'm wondering if anyone can help...   it won't recognize the drive... (neither will gentoo) but i checked my hardware version and it's supposed to be supported by the megaraid_mbox module, which is being loaded
[03:25] <TJWorld> Any ServerTeam members about?
[03:25] <TJWorld> Hmm, I meant, any Server^Testing^Team members about?
[08:28] <grandy> hello:  I'm wondering if anyone knows the last version of Ubuntu use a 2.4 kernel for the livecd...
[08:38] <shwag> mysql-administrator should be pushed out as a new version. 1.1.6 is way borked. http://bugs.mysql.com/bug.php?id=17879
[08:38] <shwag> 1.1.10 fixes.
[11:06] <psycose> hi
[11:07] <psycose> i'm looking for user experience about a Sun blade 150 - sparc install, if you know some great url/docs i've not found that much on google thanks
[11:25] <psycose> Anyone has any experience about Ubuntu server on Sun blade 150/Sparc ?


[12:12] <LaserJock> ohh, sweet. I just got yelp installed in OSX!
[12:57] <robotgeek> LaserJock: wow!
[12:58] <robotgeek> fink?
[01:00] <LaserJock> hmm, false alarm. I've got yelp installed using darwin ports but it won't open any files
[01:01] <robotgeek> LaserJock: is that the same as fink? it's been long since i've used OS X
[01:02] <LaserJock> its a bit different. fink uses dpkg and apt and has binary packages (which means I can't use it right now) but darwin ports uses the BSD ports system with source.
[01:03] <robotgeek> LaserJock: ah, okay.
[01:03] <LaserJock> but I just saw on the fink website they have a preliminary build for macintels so I'll have to try that out.
[01:05] <robotgeek> LaserJock: ah, a mac book pro?
[01:05] <LaserJock> no intel iMac
[01:06] <robotgeek> hmm, nice
[01:06] <LaserJock> so far it is pretty cool
[01:06] <LaserJock> but it would be nice if I could dual-boot with Ubuntu
[01:07] <robotgeek> i need to get linux installed on the nicer computer, writing anything on 12" screens suck
[01:08] <robotgeek> it sucks more when you actually have the bigger screen right in front of the 12", lol
[01:08] <LaserJock> yeah, i've got 17' widescreen. I wish I could've got the 20"
[01:09] <Madpilot> lovely thing, but a !#$% to move around - weighs a tonne
[01:09] <robotgeek> true, i had once of those back in the univ
[01:10] <LaserJock> yeah, we've got about 6 19" CRTs sitting around in the lab
[01:10] <Madpilot> in a year or so I'll replace it with a flatscreen of some sort - I don't like most LCDs, though. They're fuzzy compared to a good CRT
[01:10] <robotgeek> unless i have to do some graphic art, i';; take a LCD
[01:11] <LaserJock> I'd switch to flatpanel just for the space.
[01:11] <Madpilot> The way my desk is contructed, I'd have room for dual 19" LCDs, which would/will be a lot of fun
[01:12] <Madpilot> *constructed, even... :P
[01:12] <LaserJock> nice
[01:13] <LaserJock> new profs here are getting dual flatpanels with there start up money.
[01:13] <Burgwork> s/there/their
[01:13] <LaserJock> Burgwork: thanks ;-)
[01:13] <robotgeek> heh
[01:13] <LaserJock> IRC sure makes my spelling go to heck
[01:13] <robotgeek> howto even
[01:14] <Madpilot> Burgwork: aren't you supposed to be working?
[01:14] <Burgwork> nah
[01:14] <LaserJock> I can hook up another flatpanel to my iMac. That would be fun.
[01:20] <LaserJock> Madpilot: did you attach any meat with that last email?
[01:21] <LaserJock> or were we supposed to just imagine the diff?
[01:21] <Madpilot> LaserJock: just resent w/ file... :|
[01:22] <LaserJock> anybody around to commit Brian's patch?
[01:23] <LaserJock> Madpilot: any word on your svn access?
[01:23] <Madpilot> nope
[01:24] <LaserJock> I thought Mark had elmo fix that. :-|
[01:34] <LaserJock> Madpilot: done
[01:35] <Burgwork> LaserJock, remember to email as well
[01:35] <Madpilot> LaserJock: you're waiting for commit as well, right?
[01:36] <LaserJock> Burgwork: I did, before I said  done ;-)
[01:36] <Burgwork> ah, hadn't hit yet
[01:37] <Madpilot> LaserJock: nevermind, I see you've got commit rights :P
[01:38] <LaserJock> yeah, it took forever but I got 'em
[04:13] <LaserJock> anybody know how to adjust tables in docbook?
[04:35] <LaserJock> what do you guys use for spell checking .xml files?
[04:35] <Burglaptop> my eyes
[04:36] <Madpilot> I spellcheck by eye in Yelp
[04:37] <LaserJock> you Burger's must have had great english teachers ;-)
[04:37] <LaserJock> s/Burger's/Burgers/
[04:38] <Burglaptop> Madpilot: how many teachers is our family again?
[04:38] <Madpilot> in? umm... most of the family? :P
[04:38] <LaserJock> hmm, I see
[04:39] <Madpilot> one grandfather was a teacher & principal, Mom was a teacher, one aunt & one grandmother both taught nursing, Dad teaches university... there's more I'm forgetting about, I think :D
[04:40] <LaserJock> hmm, not in my family.
[04:40] <LaserJock> I'm pretty much the first to go to college other than one of my grandfathers
[04:41] <Burglaptop> ironically, neither my brother nor I have finished university
[04:41] <LaserJock> black sheep of the family, eh?
[04:41] <Madpilot> we're compensating for the weight of all those degrees in the older generations
[04:46] <Burglaptop> hmm, I just realized that Userfuls logo fails one of a key tests of logos
[04:46] <Burglaptop> http://www.desktoplinuxsummit.com/sponsors.php
[04:46] <Burglaptop> scroll down
[04:50] <Madpilot> Burglaptop: not sure what you mean...
[04:50] <Burglaptop> see that it needs to be one a white background?
[04:51] <Madpilot> yeah, you and Trolltech
[04:51] <Burglaptop> yep
[04:51] <Burglaptop> logos should look good regardless of background
[04:59] <Madpilot> http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9075-2051196,00.html <-- amusing
[05:02] <Burglaptop> robitaille: bon soir
[05:02] <robitaille> Hi Burglaptop
[05:03] <Burglaptop> does aptitude deal with .debs?
[05:03] <Burglaptop> ie, can it replace it dpkg?
[05:04] <robitaille> I thought aptitude was like synaptic.
[05:04] <Burglaptop> yes, it was
[05:04] <robitaille> I tried it once 3 years ago, so memory is a a foggy
[05:07] <crimsun> afaict it's still another front end to apt, which is a frontend to dpkg
[05:07] <Burglaptop> hmm
[05:09] <Kamping_Kaiser> is anyone else having config-system.xml not validating? (brb though)
[05:12] <Kamping_Kaiser> :S
[05:12] <Kamping_Kaiser> brb again
[05:15] <Burglaptop> Kamping_Kaiser: in all seriousness, if you are not getting it to validate, I would try deleting the file and re-downloading it, then try again. If it still doesn't validate, look for the bug
[05:15] <Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser: UDG's config-system.xml validates here - latest SVN
[05:16] <Kamping_Kaiser> Madpilot: ok. I'll try getting the file again.
[05:17] <Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser: you are talking about the Ubuntu Desktop's one, and not the Kubuntu DG's file?
[05:17] <Madpilot> they've got identical filenames...
[05:17] <LaserJock> do you validate the individual .xml files? or the doc as a whole?
[05:18] <Kamping_Kaiser> Madpilot: yes. i validated again and it worked. must be related to wokring dir :/
[05:18] <Kamping_Kaiser> i just did the 1
[05:18] <Madpilot> LaserJock: I always just validate desktopguide.xml, that pulls everything else in
[05:19] <LaserJock> Madpilot: that's what I do too but I wondered if there would be a difference. I wouldn't think so.
[05:22] <Kamping_Kaiser> (ubuntu) desktop-guide.xml validates, but config-system.xml wont - does that mean it's not supposed to be validated on it's own?
[05:22] <Burglaptop> possibly
[05:24] <Madpilot> quite likely; DocBook like this seems all interconnected in ways I haven't yet figured out
[05:24] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok. I'll try and remember to validate stuff like d-g.xml, not individual files :/
[05:25] <Madpilot> just run the same path/to/file.xml thru both Yelp and the validator
[05:28] <Kamping_Kaiser> does docbook have comments?
[05:29] <Madpilot> same as HTML comments <!-- comment -->
[05:29] <jsgotangco> ordinary HTML comments work
[05:29] <Kamping_Kaiser> ta
[05:29] <LaserJock> do you guys use a lot of comments when you're writing?
[05:30] <Madpilot> not really
[05:30] <Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser: what're you working on?
[05:30] <Kamping_Kaiser> Madpilot: i decided to have a play with config-system.xml. and i broke it quite nicely
[05:31] <Kamping_Kaiser> and i think i just unbroke it.
[05:32] <Madpilot> hey, I've submitted patches that I *knew* didn't validate, because it was late and someone else could solve the damn thing... :P
[05:32] <LaserJock> can someone take a look at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ch05.html#id2566611 . Is there a way to adjust the column widths?
[05:32] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol Madpilot
[05:35] <Kamping_Kaiser> docbook is so cool :O it does stuff
[05:35] <Madpilot> LaserJock: in HTML there is, not sure what works in DocBook
[05:36] <LaserJock> hmm, it just looks ugly and I'm not sure what to do with it
[05:37] <robotgeek> LaserJock: where's the css?
[05:37] <LaserJock> robotgeek: umm, I don't know exactly.
[05:37] <LaserJock> it's the common css
[05:38] <robotgeek> LaserJock: how does it actually get to the server?
[05:38] <LaserJock> robotgeek: it gets built by a cron job
[05:38] <Madpilot> voodoo
[05:39] <Burglaptop> goat and virgin sacrifice
[05:39] <LaserJock> libs/ubuntu-book.css is my guess, looking at ubuntu/Makefile
[05:40] <Burglaptop> Madpilot: you'd think we have similar taste in humour or something :P
[05:40] <robotgeek> LaserJock: so, basically that css would need to be modified
[05:40] <LaserJock> robotgeek: why not the .xml
[05:41] <Madpilot> Burglaptop: or something :)
[05:41] <robotgeek> LaserJock: why would it be in xml?
[05:41] <Burglaptop> LaserJock: docbook is designed not to have any presentation/layout stuff in it
[05:41] <robotgeek> LaserJock: same as with latex, and style files
[05:41] <Burglaptop> or xhtml and css
[05:42] <robotgeek> to each his own :)
[05:42] <LaserJock> ok fine, I just was looking at the Definitive Guide
[05:42] <Kamping_Kaiser>  /etc/cups/cupsd.conf in Breezy and dapper are very different. does anyone know if there's a major difference in how it works? not much point trying to write about cups (from my Breezy experiance) if it's changed for dapper
[05:42] <robotgeek> Kamping_Kaiser: get dapper :)
[05:42] <LaserJock> and it has stuff like colspec colwidth='0.5in'/>
[05:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> robotgeek: i have dapper, but no printer for it ;)
[05:44] <robotgeek> LaserJock: link to chapter?
[05:44] <robotgeek> Kamping_Kaiser: ah, okay
[05:44] <LaserJock> robotgeek: http://www.docbook.org/tdg/en/html/informaltable.html
[05:44] <LaserJock> and what about in yelp, it looks equally as bad in yelp.
[05:48] <robotgeek> LaserJock: hmm, weird. i always assumed that it was evil to do that in xml
[05:50] <LaserJock> robotgeek: well, that might be. It always seems like they open up the oppritunity for those of use that like to tweak the layout, and tempt us to write bad code :(
[05:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> how would i make docbook treat this <Location /> as part of the text, not a docbook tag?
[05:51] <robotgeek> LaserJock: http://www.dpawson.co.uk/docbook/markup.html#d369e653
[05:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> do i escape it some how?
[05:53] <robotgeek> Kamping_Kaiser: i'm looking it up, one sec
[05:53] <LaserJock> I just use < and >
[05:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> LaserJock: what do they do? (apart from validate)
[05:54] <LaserJock> Kamping_Kaiser: less than (<) and greater than (>)
[05:54] <robotgeek> Kamping_Kaiser: < is a reserved character, <
[05:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> ah.
[06:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> hm. thanks all. it validates now :)
[06:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> i started knocking up something on printer sharing (which I'll try out now). should i make it a wiki page? or post it to the list, or some other method of geting feedback?
[06:40] <Burglaptop> Kamping_Kaiser: wiki is a good place
[06:41] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok.
[06:49] <LaserJock> there's syntax?
[06:49] <Kamping_Kaiser> well it's not strait html
[06:50] <LaserJock> I didn't think it was anything
[06:50] <HrdwrBoB> it's pretty simple
[06:51] <HrdwrBoB> take you all of about 10 minutes to learn
[06:52] <Madpilot> tables are odd syntax in moinmoin; everything else is fairly straightforward
[06:53] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok. I'm about to try out the insturctions i wrote then I'll try and ifnd a logical name for it in the wiki :)
[06:54] <Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser: there are already wiki pages for XP->Ubuntu and Ubuntu->XP printer sharing, not sure there's anthing for Ubuntu->Ubuntu sharing though
[06:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> Madpilot: I'm about to try it. i havent seen any ubuntu - linux one (ubuntu/Debian is what i can help with)
[06:55] <Madpilot> cool
[06:55] <Burglaptop> sadly, not as easy as it should be
[06:56] <Burglaptop> dapper
[06:56] <Burglaptop> +1 should have zeroconf love
[06:57] <Kamping_Kaiser> mmm. sweet
[06:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> hm. *takes it on trust that gksudo gedit works, as it wont work over x11 forwarding
[07:03] <Burglaptop> it does
[07:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> it didnt work here :/
[07:04] <Madpilot> it works on a regular desktop, anyway
[07:05] <Kamping_Kaiser> hm. anyway.
[07:42] <dsas> just to check: if a program is in main, then I don't need to say "get blah from the main repository" do I?
[07:42] <crimsun> "install blah" should suffice.
[07:43] <crimsun> it makes more sense to omit main and only mention universe and multiverse, since they're not explicitly enabled in net-aware installs
[07:44] <dsas> thanks, just checking
[07:44] <crimsun> (make sure that assumption is noted clearly, though)
[07:47] <dsas> hmm, from what I can see it's used in the rest of the document.
[07:48] <crimsun> then be consistent w/ the rest of the document
[09:01] <mdke_> Madpilot, any thoughts on what dsas and crimsun were just talking about?
[09:01] <mdke_> afaik, we're doing a bit of both right now, there is no consistency
[09:02] <Madpilot> mdke_: we should probably go thru UDG and edit it to one style
[09:02] <Madpilot> I like crimsun's point about leaving main/restricted out, because they're available by default
[09:02] <mdke_> so do I
[09:02] <mdke_> let's do that
[03:12] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:12] <jsgotangco> i wouldnt do that yet
[03:12] <mdke> dapper is dodgy still?
[03:13] <mdke> looks alright
[03:13] <mdke> maybe i'll give it a bit longer
[03:13] <jsgotangco> oh its pretty stable
[03:13] <jsgotangco> especially flight4
[03:13] <mdke> well i can't update to a milestone
[03:13] <jsgotangco> there are just a few stuff that are still dodgy for me
[03:13] <mdke> i can only update to the latest dapper
[03:13] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:14] <jsgotangco> my FF for instance seems to have this xul interface error
[03:14] <mdke> yes that's quite common i believe
[03:15] <mdke> i wonder if we should use the yelp stylesheets for building html, things like <note> and stuff look really nice
[03:16] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:21] <jsgotangco> cool mvo uploaded latest g-a-i
[03:46] <mdke> i suppose we're going to have to get round documenting backports
[03:47] <jsgotangco> why?
[03:47] <mdke> well, people use them don't they?
[03:48] <jsgotangco> are ubuntu backports safe already?
[03:48] <mdke> they are as safe as the unstable version
[03:50] <jsgotangco> ahh well
[03:51] <mdke> although, we don't document that either right now in the DesktopGuide
[04:17] <jsgotangco> good night
[06:15] <theCore> mdke, what is the deadline for the documentation ?
[06:15] <mdke> theCore, March 23
[06:15] <mdke> a whole month
[06:15] <mdke> :)
[06:15] <theCore> that quite soon
[06:15] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
[06:15] <theCore> thanks
[06:17] <mdke> the docs are looking rather good
[06:17] <mdke> they'll be in time
[06:21] <mdke> hey there LaserJock
[06:21] <mdke> get my email about validate.sh?
[06:21] <theCore> I understand know why they say the release cycles are short and furious :)
[06:21] <LaserJock> umm, yes I did.
[06:21] <mdke> cool
[06:21] <mdke> why umm?
[06:21] <LaserJock> I will try to finish the copyright stuff today.
[06:22] <LaserJock> because I had to think about it
[06:22] <mdke> he3h
[06:22] <LaserJock> I've got so much to do
[06:23] <mdke> :)
[06:23] <mdke> just do one script, and I'll copy and paste it to the others, if you like
[06:24] <LaserJock> I was talking about other things I need to do. MOTU stuff, etc.
[06:25] <mdke> sure, but if you can save time on this, you can spend more on those
[06:26] <LaserJock> but I like this :-)
[06:26] <mdke> ah, np then
[06:26] <LaserJock> I would like to "fix" something. I've been helping out but it would be nice to see something through to completion. You know what I mean?
[06:27] <mdke> yep
[06:31] <LaserJock> mdke: ok, question. Is the Sean Wheller the copyright holder for validate.sh ? It just has him a author?
[06:32] <mdke> i guess so then
[06:33] <mdke> Burgwork, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDocumentation?action=diff <-- is the book going to be published online?
[06:33] <mdke> actually scratch that
[06:44] <LaserJock> mdke: how does http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/9254 look?
[06:46] <mdke> LaserJock, looks great, if you're happy
[06:46] <LaserJock> I am
[06:47] <LaserJock> I'll just apply that to the translate.sh scripts. The .css files I think should already have proper copyright headers but I'll double check just to make sure
[06:47] <mdke> cool, thanks for your work on this
[06:48] <Burgwork> mdke, the book will be under our licenses, from what I understand
[06:48] <theCore> Burgwork, the book ? a printed one?
[06:48] <LaserJock> mdke: np, I know how fickle devs can be about copyright. I wouldn't want elmo to take issue with ubuntu-docs ;-)
[06:49] <mdke> Burgwork, yeah, but i was trying to understand the link added to UserDocumentation. I've removed it for now, because there is no material on the page that was linked
[06:49] <mdke> LaserJock, yay
[06:49] <mdke> does one spell apt-get with capital letters in a section title?
[06:49] <mdke> answers on a postcard
[06:50] <LaserJock> theCore: do you have any patches to send me? or are you still trying to recover from your little brother?
[06:51] <theCore> I'm still trying to recover, I'm going to install dapper, so it may take a little bit of time, before I can continue working on the PG
[06:53] <LaserJock> theCore: could you just tar up the packagingguide directory and send it to me? I can at least take a look at it while your recovering ;-)
[06:53] <theCore> okay
[06:53] <theCore> but I warn you, it still clumsy
[06:54] <LaserJock> np
[06:56] <Burgwork> mdke, I didn't add any link
[06:56] <Burgwork> theCore, yes, a printed one. Working title "The Official Ubuntu book"
[06:58] <theCore> ooh, cool
[06:58] <mdke> Burgwork, no, I know.
[06:58] <mdke> that's a terrible title :/
[06:58] <theCore> So, what will be the content of it?
[06:59] <Burgwork> mdke, we (the authors) are being paid by canonical
[06:59] <Burgwork> theCore, words ;)
[06:59] <theCore> lol
[06:59] <Burgwork> maybe even English words, but I cannot say
[06:59] <mdke> Burgwork, i'm afraid that is not going to stop me hating the use of the word "official"
[06:59] <theCore> so, it won't be a community driven effort ?
[06:59] <mdke> it is totally meaningless
[07:00] <Burgwork> we are planning on getting fairly wide reviewing effort, announced shortly
[07:00] <theCore> just "The Ubuntu Book" would be nicier
[07:00] <Burgwork> I said working title, not final title
[07:00] <theCore> oh, ok
[07:01] <mdke> if you hadn't, I wouldn't have bothered voicing an objection :)
[07:01] <Burgwork> you would have just quietly stewed?
[07:01] <mdke> sure
[07:01] <mdke> ok i'm off home
[07:01] <mdke> later all
[07:02] <LaserJock> cya mdke
[07:02] <LaserJock> I should commit the copyright changes soon
[07:03] <theCore> I really starting to regret that I didn't went to UBZ ... :/
[07:03] <theCore> It was at 30 min of my home
[07:03] <LaserJock> theCore: really? I would have gone if it had been that close.
[07:04] <LaserJock> mostly because I needed to get my gpg key signed
[07:04] <theCore> lol
[07:05] <theCore> I hope, they make another one at Montreal (but I don't expect they will)
[07:07] <LaserJock> I'm hoping for one in Las Vegas
[07:07] <Burgwork> almost never going to happen in the US
[07:07] <LaserJock> Burgwork: I know :(
[07:07] <Burgwork> too many canonical employees would probably refuse to go
[07:07] <theCore> why so ?
[07:07] <theCore> oh
[07:08] <theCore> political reasons?
[07:08] <LaserJock> it's a pity though because it might be helpful.
[07:10] <LaserJock> theCore: I think software patent reasons.
[07:11] <theCore> I see
[07:11] <Burgwork> no, political reasons
[07:11] <Burgwork> all that fingerprinting and other crap
[07:12] <theCore> LaserJock, see I was right ;-)
[07:12] <theCore> fingerprinting?
[07:12] <Burgwork> also, I understand Mark is a greylisted because he flew out of the US once without getting permission
[07:13] <Burgwork> theCore, we are Canadian, we never see any of the nasty side of US Homeland Insecurity
[07:13] <LaserJock> hmm, I just don't see the problem, but then I'm an American so I'm already on the inside ;-)
[07:14] <Burgwork> for instance, canonical will pay extra for plane tickets to not fly through the US
[07:15] <LaserJock> is it really that bad? that just seems stupid IMO. but to each his own I guess
[07:17] <Burgwork> LaserJock, Canadians and US citizens are usually rather insulated as to the realities of what DHS does at the border
[07:18] <LaserJock> Burgwork: yes, but people come and go all the time. I don't think Canonical list somehow special in that regard.
[07:18] <LaserJock> s/list/is/
[07:19] <Burgwork> LaserJock, yes, but business travellers are slightly different and you don;t think that business travels who are non-white don't still get searched/given the 9th degree?
[07:20] <LaserJock> but they get in, they get out. sure it's a pain but they are going to exclude the US from hosting a dev conference over it?
[07:21] <Burgwork> yes, they are and it is a sound decision
[07:21] <Burgwork> in addition, in pratical matters, there are for more hackers in Europe and thus it is cheaper to hold a conference there
[07:22] <LaserJock> Burgwork: well, it is up to them. I can just choose to disagree ;-)
[07:24] <LaserJock> I just usually bite my tongue as I know that most people will probably disagree with me. I don't want to make a big stink over it. I just find it personally highly frustrating and not in the Ubuntu spirit. But I'll be done with it now and let you get  back to work.
[07:28] <Burgwork> ompaul, are you working on the website FAQ still?
[07:29] <ompaul> Burgwork, I want to - can we talk in about an hour
[07:29] <Burgwork> ompaul, just tell me when you are done working onit
[07:30] <ompaul> k
[07:33] <theCore> LaserJock, I sent my tarball
[07:33] <LaserJock> theCore: got it, thanks.
[07:46] <theCore> nice, LaserJock check `Screenshot 15: Yelp' in this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFlight4
[07:46] <theCore> Dapper is rocking like hell
[07:46] <LaserJock> theCore: cool
[07:53] <LaserJock> it's been a fun ride with Dapper, Breezy was a little rough.
[08:24] <LaserJock> theCore: did you work on anything but getting_started.xml?
[08:30] <theCore> nope
[08:31] <ompaul> Burgwork, I had a question about the faq, is it reasonable for the FAQ to point to pages on the wiki?
[08:31] <theCore> LaserJock, so is it good or bad? (don't be gentle)
[08:32] <LaserJock> theCore: still looking, I'll tell you in a minute :-)
[08:32] <robotgeek_work> Burgwork: do you know if someone is working on the apt section in the Ubuntu Desktop Guide?
[08:32] <Burgwork> yes and no idea
[08:33] <theCore> here we go, I nuke my Ubuntu partition *boom*
[08:39] <LaserJock> theCore: I like it, I'm going to do some work on it and get it committed.
[08:40] <theCore> nice
[08:40] <theCore> I need to work on the diff and patch
[08:41] <theCore> section
[09:05] <theCore> LaserJock, you might find this article interesting: http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/?id=110008002
[09:06] <theCore> it's about thing we talked earlier (US security politics)
[09:07] <theCore> the thing*
[09:12] <LaserJock> theCore: yeah, I haven't had to fly much but I've been through Denver, Kansas City, Dallas, and Washington D.C. in the last year. I've had the "extra attention" most of the time. I don't mind too much. I've never even been close to missing a flight because of security. It's a pain but security measures, wherever they are (banks, police stations, etc.), are rarely convenient.
[09:13] <theCore> I find Linux security measures are convenient :)
[09:13] <LaserJock> I don't
[09:14] <theCore> really?
[09:14] <theCore> I find them transparent
[09:14] <theCore> one password and that is
[09:15] <theCore> the rest is handled by the system
[09:15] <LaserJock> well, I guess it depends. At my uni I can't run chats, .torrents, and a lot of other things on standard ports because they are blocked
[09:15] <LaserJock> that is a case where it is inconvenient
[09:15] <LaserJock> also our department policy is that we have to log into the department server before we can ssh to our comps from the outside
[09:16] <Burgwork> I find airport security annoying and degrading
[09:16] <LaserJock> that is inconvenient as well
[09:16] <Burgwork> the assumption that I am a terrorist before I prove that i am not
[09:16] <theCore> well, that's company security mesures, not linux one
[09:16] <LaserJock> theCore: true, but it affects linux comps :(
[09:17] <theCore> not just linux computer, also windows
[09:17] <LaserJock> Burgwork: I think the idea is that the only way you can prove that you are is to blow something up and so it is more "safe" to prove you aren't. but that is just how I understand it
[09:19] <Burgwork> but 99.9% of the people flying are not terrorists
[09:20] <Burgwork> and the amount of money to stop a few deaths are not worth it, in my view
[09:20] <Burgwork> plus, reactive is the wrong way to end "terrorism"
[09:20] <theCore> that a problem in our societies, we don't accept dead
[09:21] <theCore> s/dead/deaths/
[09:22] <LaserJock> theCore: not from terrorists, no. I don't anyway
[09:22] <theCore> it would be a good idea to find the acceptable number of deaths for our lifestyle
[09:23] <LaserJock> theCore: from terrorists, 0
[09:23] <theCore> LaserJock, get used to it, as poor peoples will be crushed by the giant, the anger will grow
[09:25] <LaserJock> anyway, it probably isn't great to talk politics here, it is quite OT
[09:25] <theCore> yep
[09:25] <theCore> a
[09:25] <theCore> it's a pain in the ass
[09:27] <LaserJock> security sucks, but sometimes it's worth it. society just have to figure out the balance it is comfortable with.
[09:30] <theCore> the problem is that there always will be flaw in it, and those will be used by terrorists
[09:30] <theCore> so, for who the security is good for?
[09:32] <dsas> "them"
[09:33] <LaserJock> theCore: well, you gotta be realistic. Often you can do simple things to make it difficult for terrorists. You don't have to make it easy for them. Sure there are flaws, but that doesn't mean you abandon the whole thing.
[09:36] <theCore> LaserJock, I'm saying it they should abandon the whole thing. They should just try to make security transparent for the normal peoples. Perfect security doesn't exist, useless you close the airport
[09:37] <dm> hi guys, this place was advised as the best to offer help on the ubuntu project. what would you guys suggest is the best way to get involved
[09:37] <LaserJock> theCore: yeah, I'm sure things could go better. Most of the airports in the US are fine. It isn't a problem. I think they just have scaling issues. It is much harder to do they the things they are doing at the major aiports.
[09:37] <Burgwork> dm, wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingUbuntu
[09:38] <LaserJock> Burgwork: right
[09:38] <theCore> :)
[09:39] <theCore> dm, what are your skills?
[09:40] <dm> real noob to be honest, but i;m interested in getting involved. i have some experience in wireless networking,
[09:40] <theCore> dm, are willing to learn a lot? ;)
[09:41] <dm> but not IRC etiquete, etc,
[09:41] <dm> of course, always willing to learn, Linux has been my home every since problems with win
[09:42] <dm> tried almost every distribution, ubuntu seems to be the most user friendly. what was the idea behind the project? a easy to use debian?
[09:42] <theCore> dm, well we need help with the packaging guide, but if you never packaged before it will be hard for you ...
[09:43] <theCore> a linux distro that just works
[09:43] <dm> as in APT packaging? have done a little RPM unpacking, but i don;t expect that counts..
[09:43] <theCore> check file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html for the rest
[09:44] <LaserJock> dm: I think there is quite a bit of work on wireless networking in Ubuntu so I'm sure they need testers/bug reporters
[09:44] <theCore> unpacking?
[09:44] <theCore> you mean installing, right?
[09:44] <dm> mmm ok, well i will to offer my help there,
[09:45] <theCore> the writing tips in the wiki is good place to start
[09:45] <dm> it this file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html, not the idea behind every *free* distro
[09:45] <theCore> officials docs are a bit harder
[09:47] <dm> cool, ok, i will read the tips before i bother you guys any more with this,,, was just an idea on a friday night in with a beer. although i expect quite a bit of work/time is required on my part. i was just will to offer my help when avalible, i will read the docs and if i have an questions i know where to find you guys
[09:48] <theCore> dm, for example, because you tried *every* distro, you could write a wiki tell how ubuntu is different
[09:49] <theCore> dm, I'm glad to see you involved
[09:50] <dm> thats an interesting, idea, now i certainly did not try every distro, but i thought the idea *behind* every distro was similar to ubuntu's ethos... out of all the distro i personally tried ubuntu seemed the best from a noob point of view
[09:52] <dm> i would be more than happy to discuss my findings, and share my results. now the thing is ubuntu worked great for me where other distros let me down but...... other distros seem to work great for different sets of people. obvously hardware is issue.
[09:56] <nedschnittt> would anyone mind if I asked a quick question about a problem I'm having with the ubuntu installation or should I direct my question elsewhere?
[09:59] <nedschnittt> I was in the #ubuntu chat and I couldn't get a real answer...I'm still a bit of a noob when it comes to linux
[10:49] <robotgeek> mdke: ping
[11:02] <ompaul> is there a minimum hardware wiki page anyone can point me at?
[11:02] <ompaul> requirements that is
[11:03] <robotgeek> hey ompaul , one sec
[11:03] <ompaul> robotgeek, okay
[11:04] <Burgwork> ompaul, we should have a getting ubuntu page
[11:06] <robotgeek> ompaul: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseNotes
[11:06] <ompaul> thanks guys
[11:28] <ompaul> Burgwork, I have done what I can at the moment if anyone wants to have a look at -- the only thing I am concerned about is I took out the removal of xfree and made it sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[11:29] <Burgwork> ompaul, sorry, don't follow
[11:30] <ompaul> Burgwork, I have done what I can with the faq - there was a sudo apt-get remove --purge xserver-xfree I replaced it with the xorg line
[11:31] <ompaul> it may not be needed any more
[11:31] <Burgwork> ompaul, I would yank it entirely
[11:31] <Burgwork> replace it with something about xgl and aiglx
[11:31] <Burgwork> it is an faq
[11:31] <ompaul> okay
[11:51] <robotgeek> heh, no one wants to commit my patches :)
[11:51] <LaserJock> well, if they weren't so huge ;-)
[11:52] <robotgeek> this time, they arent that big :)
[11:54] <robotgeek> konversation is nice
[11:54] <robotgeek> bigger screens are even nicer :)
[11:55] <LaserJock> yeah, konversation is ok. I still like irssi and xchat the best.
[11:56] <robotgeek> i prefer irssi too, just giving this a whirl
[11:57] <LaserJock> I like how in xchat you can see the away status of people
[11:57] <robotgeek> you can see in konversation too?
[11:58] <robotgeek> the ones away are lightened out?
[11:58] <crimsun> this firewall is wrecking my attempts to easily use svn.
[11:58] <LaserJock> crimsun: that stinks
[12:00] <robotgeek> hey crimsun, howdy
[12:00] <crimsun> 'lo robotgeek
[12:00] <LaserJock> robotgeek: so far I haven't found a irc client for OSX as good as xchat/konversation
[12:00] <robotgeek> LaserJock: that colloqouy or whatever isn't good?