[00:47] <cjohnston> I'm getting "bzr: ERROR: At lp:ubuntu-community-webthemes/light-wordpress-theme you have a valid .bzr control directory, but not a branch or repository. This is an unsupported configuration. Please move the target directory out of the way and try again.
[00:47] <cjohnston> " when I try to push a branch..
[00:48] <cjohnston> I don't see anything on LP.. how can I fix this?
[00:49] <lifeless> cjohnston: did you make the branch by hand ?
[00:50] <lifeless> cjohnston: bah, I mean 'in the web UI'
[00:50] <cjohnston> yes
[00:50] <cjohnston> The other three I did have worked
[00:50] <lifeless> try adding --use-existing-dir to your command
[00:51] <lifeless> generally speaking, don't create branches in the web UI
[00:51] <cjohnston> I'm using that
[00:51] <cjohnston> oh.. I didnt know there was another way
[00:51] <lifeless> cjohnston: easiest thing to do is to delete the branch
[00:51] <lifeless> cjohnston: and then just push
[00:51] <StevenK> bzr push is magical
[00:52] <cjohnston> so I have to push it to the team branch and then create the series?
[00:53] <lifeless> cjohnston: yes
[00:53] <lifeless> cjohnston: or create the series, push to the team branch, then link the two.
[00:53] <lifeless> we should make this a little nicer
[00:53] <cjohnston> +1
[00:54] <lifeless> the push to create bit works great
[00:54] <lifeless> but you can't push to create a series branch yet
[00:54] <lifeless> we're kindof-there, but not entirely.
[00:54] <cjohnston> this one I got: bzr: ERROR: Permission denied: "+branch/ubuntu-community-webthemes/light-django-theme/"
[00:55] <lifeless> right
[00:55] <lifeless> push to
[00:55] <lifeless> lp:~teamname/ubuntu-community-webthemes/light-django-theme
[00:55] <lifeless> *thats* the team branch url
[01:03] <cjohnston> fixed.. thanks lifeless
[01:14] <lifeless> cjohnston: de nada
[01:59] <ovnicraft> hello there is any sprint for starred/ following/watch projects for users
[01:59] <ovnicraft> we need know more about project in lp
[02:13] <wgrant> ovnicraft: We don't have any immediate plans for adding that sort of functionality. Do you have any particular ideas for using that?
[02:13] <ovnicraft> so i am looking several projects
[02:13] <ovnicraft> rss helps
[02:14] <ovnicraft> but we need in our profile a list with projects marked by user as important
[02:14] <ovnicraft> i dont know what concept wants to implement lp
[02:15] <ovnicraft> as you know bitbutcket has follow, github has watch google code has starred
[02:15] <wgrant> And events from those projects show up on your personal pages?
[02:16] <ovnicraft> commits
[02:16] <wgrant> Right.
[02:17] <wgrant> We have some plans for that sort of thing. Could you file a bug?
[02:19] <ovnicraft> off course :)
[02:20] <wgrant> Thanks.
[02:31] <ovnicraft> i found this http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/developers/colocated-branches.html
[02:32] <ovnicraft> this will supported in LP?
[02:34] <wgrant> ovnicraft: That's not clear at the moment.
[02:34] <wgrant> We may, but it's not clear that there's any benefit in doing that server-side.
[02:34] <wgrant> Since there are no working trees, and repositories are handled by stacking.
[02:35] <ovnicraft> stacking means it will works maybe w/o changes in server side?
[02:36] <wgrant> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/user-guide/stacked.html
[02:39] <ovnicraft> ok so will see what happen with this i work in a big project hosted in lp and modules repository start to be too big
[02:39] <ovnicraft> thanks for all
[02:39] <wgrant> ovnicraft: Branch stacking handles that well.
[02:39] <wgrant> ovnicraft: When you push up a new branch, you only have to push the data that is not in trunk.
[02:39] <ovnicraft> yes we working in that way
[02:39] <wgrant> You don't need server-side colocated branches for that.
[02:40] <wgrant> (not in bzr, at least. hg and git do)
[02:40] <ovnicraft> but when i need clone our modules need clone all modules and i need just work in one
[02:41] <wgrant> Is that a big problem? Don't you already have the whole lot cloned locally?
[02:44] <ovnicraft> yes i have many branches
[02:44] <lifeless> ovnicraft: wgrant: we will support it in lp eventually; its not on our immediate roadmap though: our first priority is making things faster
[02:44] <ovnicraft> when i need fix something need clone it then propose to merge
[02:45] <ovnicraft> i dont want to get all repo just what i will fix
[02:45] <ovnicraft> lifeless, it sounds good IMHO 2.3 is faster in 2.1 i was gonna die
[02:51] <ovnicraft> maybe its OT wgrant but write a bzr plugin can help me
[02:51] <ovnicraft> if you are in #bzr can tell my idea (and have time )
[02:52] <wgrant> I'm in #bzr.
[05:06] <EvilPhoenix> is there a testing environment so that a potentially new project creator can create their project and get used to launchpad in a testing environment (rather than the full non-testing launchpad.net environment)?
[05:06] <wgrant> EvilPhoenix: Try qastaging.launchpad.net.
[05:07] <wgrant> It runs on a copy of the production database that's erased every couple of weeks.
[05:07] <wgrant> It also doesn't send email, so you can do just about whatever you want there without spamming people.
[05:08] <EvilPhoenix> ah, so basically the project creator can stage their code there in a testing environment, get used to the launchpad way of things, and then if they dont want to use launchpad, the db in that area (which contains the project that was created) gets purged and no record(s) exist?
[05:08] <EvilPhoenix> forgive me for being slightly non-concise or understandable, dealing with lawyers from 5AM until 11PM can be a pita, and messes you up a tad
[05:09] <EvilPhoenix> :P
[05:11] <maxb> qastaging's DB is occasionally replaced with a fresh copy from the production instance
[05:15] <EvilPhoenix> so any testing stuff I do in the qastaging area will eventually be purged in an overwrite from the production database?   (whenever said purge occurs)
[05:19] <wgrant> EvilPhoenix: Yes.
[05:27] <EvilPhoenix> that answers my questions.  thanks :)
[08:37] <dpm> hi lifeless, good morning. I sent an e-mail re: AppDeveloperWeek to the bazaar mailing list yesterday. May I ask you to approve it in the moderation queue? Thanks!
[08:39] <lifeless> dpm: hmmm, I don't know if I still have the password
[08:40] <dpm> lifeless, ok, no worries. Do you know which admin from the list at https://lists.canonical.com/mailman/listinfo/bazaar I should better ping?
[08:40] <lifeless> found it
[08:40] <dpm> even better :)
[08:48] <dpm> ok, thanks lifeless
[08:48] <lifeless> de nada
[08:48] <dpm> ;)
[08:53] <mok0> hm
[09:29] <arvind_khadri> Hi, when will the site be up again?
[09:30] <soren> Apart from retrying "bzr push" every 15 seconds, how can I be notified that Launchpad is back up?
[09:31] <wgrant> soren: identi.ca/launchpadstatus
[09:31] <wgrant> We're just waiting for some hardware maintenance to finish.
[09:31] <StevenK> The topic should have been changed, here, too ...
[09:32] <arvind_khadri> wgrant, 48 hours ??
[09:32] <soren> wgrant: Oh, that's being used now? I've looked there the last three times I've had LP problems and there was no info.
[09:32] <wgrant> arvind_khadri: Hm? Should be back up well within half an hour.
[09:32] <lifeless> arvind_khadri: a few minutes to go
[09:32] <evilvish> can we use bzr?
[09:33] <arvind_khadri> Oh ok :) thanks
[09:33] <wgrant> soren: Occasionally people forget to update it, but we're better now.
[09:33] <soren> wgrant: Coolness.
[09:33] <wgrant> evilvish: Launchpad is down for maintenance. It should be back in a few minutes.
[09:33] <wgrant> soren: you can see there's been a fair bit of activity on it lately.
[09:33] <soren> evilvish: Can' push to launchpad, but bzr on its own works fine, of course.
[09:33] <evilvish> cool, i'll wait then :D
[09:34] <soren> wgrant: Ah, yes. Excellent.
[09:35] <arvind_khadri> Its up :)
[09:35] <soren> Not entirely. bzr push still doesn't work.
[09:36] <arvind_khadri> I just want a pull :P :D
[09:36] <lifeless> we're bringing it up now
[09:36] <soren> \o/
[09:36] <lifeless> there are 60 or so services to come up
[09:36] <lifeless> so its not instantaneous
[09:36] <soren> Wow. 60? *boggle*
[09:36] <lifeless> soren: about to increase somewhat in a few weeks
[09:37] <soren> lifeless: orly? Anything particularly interesting?
[09:37] <lifeless> soren: tweakin the load balancer <-> zope instance layer
[09:38] <soren> So...  no? :)
[09:38] <wgrant> lifeless has this crazy idea that Launchpad is slow or something.
[09:38] <wgrant> And an evil plan to fix it.
[09:38] <soren> pft
[09:38] <lifeless> soren: + 2 of our oldest machines are being swapped out for newer hardware with more memory and cpus - and so more instances will be running on them
[09:40] <soren> Yay, codehosting.
[09:42] <lifeless> soren: anyhow numbers - 2xapache-ssl, squid, haproxy, codebrowse, poppy, librarian, then 28 zope appserver instances, 3 postgresql, the code import worker daemons, backend workers for email, merge proposals, branch scanning
[09:42] <wgrant> And lots of cron jobs.
[09:43] <soren> What's poppy?
[09:43] <soren> publisher, perhaps?
[09:43] <soren> Or would that be too obvious?
[09:43] <soren> :)
[09:43] <StevenK> soren: Poppy is the upload daemon
[09:43] <StevenK> The publisher is the well, the publisher
[09:43] <soren> Oh, so close.
[09:44] <arvind_khadri> soren, can I /msg you?
[09:44] <soren> You can try.
[09:44] <lifeless> oh, I forgot the build master
[09:44] <arvind_khadri> soren, needed help with bzr :)
[09:45] <soren> Why not just ask (here or in #bzr)?
[09:46] <arvind_khadri> hmmm, bzr branch lp:ubuntu-bots is not working.  Says wrong branch format.
[09:48] <arvind_khadri> What am I doing wrong ?
[09:49] <arvind_khadri> soren, ^
[09:49] <wgrant> arvind_khadri: Which version of bzr are you using?
[09:50] <arvind_khadri> 1.5
[09:50] <arvind_khadri> wgrant, ^
[09:51] <lifeless> you will need a 2.something version
[09:51] <lifeless> 2.3 would be best
[09:51] <wgrant> arvind_khadri: Wow, that's really really old.
[09:51] <arvind_khadri> :) My OS had only that
[09:51] <jfi> Uploading to ppa still fail (connection refused), I guess the server is still not available? Or that's on my side?
[09:52] <wgrant> jfi: Known issue, just working on that.
[09:53] <arvind_khadri> wgrant, so how I can't branch at all using that ?
[09:53] <arvind_khadri> I mean can't I branch at all.
[09:53] <wgrant> arvind_khadri: Most branches are in a format which was introduced in 1.16
[09:53] <jfi> wgrant, ok thx for confirmation:)
[09:53] <arvind_khadri> ohhh ok
[09:53] <wgrant> So no, 1.5 isn't going to be useful for most stuff.
[09:54] <soren> arvind_khadri: Are you on Lenny, by any chance?
[09:54] <arvind_khadri> soren, yes :(
[09:54] <soren> arvind_khadri: backports/lenny has 2.0.3-1~bpo50+1.
[09:54] <arvind_khadri> soren, awesome, was searching for that now
[09:58] <wgrant> jfi: PPA uploads should be back now.
[09:58] <jfi> wgrant, hummmm.... got a strange error
[09:59] <jfi> Uploading to ppa (via ftp to ppa.launchpad.net):
[09:59] <jfi>   Uploading liferea-unity-count_0.1.2-0ubuntu1.dsc: done.
[09:59] <jfi>   Uploading liferea-unity-count_0.1.2.orig.tar.gz: done.
[09:59] <jfi>   Uploading liferea-unity-count_0.1.2-0ubuntu1.debian.tar.gz: done.
[09:59] <jfi>   Uploading liferea-unity-count_0.1.2-0ubuntu1_source.changes: 1k/2k426 Transfer aborted.  Data connection closed.
[09:59] <wgrant> bigjools: ^^
[09:59] <bigjools> le sigh
[09:59] <jfi> wgrant, it uploads the first 3, but not the last :/
[10:00] <bigjools> is your changes file signed properly>?
[10:00] <jfi> bigjools, yes
[10:00] <bigjools> then we have a problem
[10:00] <jfi> Checking signature on .changes
[10:00] <jfi> gpg: Signature made Thu 10 Mar 2011 10:34:10 AM CET using RSA key ID 82A3F5F6
[10:00] <jfi> gpg: Good signature from "Jean-Philippe Orsini<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:00] <jfi> gpg:                 aka "jeanfi<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:00] <jfi> Good signature on ./liferea-unity-count_0.1.2-0ubuntu1_source.changes.
[10:03] <bigjools> ok, we'll get this fixed shortly
[10:03] <jfi> bigjools, do you want the debug log? There is  a traceback if it helps you
[10:04] <wgrant> jfi: We've identified the issue.
[10:04] <bigjools> jfi: no, we know what the problem is, thanks
[10:04] <wgrant> Fix in progress.
[10:04] <jfi> wgrant, ok
[10:04] <wgrant> jfi: Could you try again?
[10:05] <jfi>   Uploading liferea-unity-count_0.1.2-0ubuntu1_source.changes: done.
[10:05] <jfi> Successfully uploaded packages.
[10:05] <jfi> nice!
[10:05] <jfi> thanks!
[10:05] <soren> Is everything supposed to be back? (Read: is it worth mentioning that e.g. http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~zulcss/nova/nova-lxc/revision/758 throws an HTTP 500?)
[10:05] <lifeless> being looked at
[10:06] <soren> Cool.
[10:06] <soren> Thanks!
[10:06] <wgrant> jfi: Thanks for checking.
[10:07] <wgrant> jfi: And letting us know that it was broken.
[10:07] <wgrant> jfi: We just deployed some new checks that weren't quite set up properly.
[10:07] <bigjools> it's checking that the changes file is signed now
[10:07] <bigjools> I'll be blogging about it later
[14:22] <james_w> did anyone else see bzr giving "not a branch" messages during the rollout?
[14:22] <james_w> (for things that are branches)
[14:22] <james_w> (and on LP)
[14:37] <janimo> I got this error from dput: "426 Transfer aborted.  Data connection closed." but the uplaod succeeded
[14:38] <janimo> I wonder if it has anyting to do with recent FTP server side work which I read about n the blog
[14:48] <janimo> gpg: WARNING: This key is not certified with a trusted signature!
[14:48] <janimo> gpg:          There is no indication that the signature belongs to the owner.
[14:48] <janimo> I get this as warnings from GPG so maybe this influences the LP side check?
[14:52] <bigjools> janimo: it's possible there are some bugs in the new FTP server
[14:53] <bigjools> if you get gpg warnings that will almost certainly be the cause of the error
[14:54] <janimo> bigjools, ok. Although the upload succeeds in spite of the error, which is an error in itself
[14:54] <bigjools> janimo: not necessarily
[14:55] <bigjools> it could be transient - the final gpg check is done later
[14:59] <jhunt_> hi all - are there any known issues with ppa uploads right now?
[14:59] <bigjools> jhunt_: it would help if you could state what problem you are having
[15:00] <jhunt_> so, more than one eh?
[15:00] <jhunt_> the error I'm getting is "Data connection closed" on dput
[15:00] <bigjools> there are no known problems
[15:00] <jhunt_> consistently.
[15:01] <bigjools> can you pastebin your complete dput output
[15:01] <janimo> bigjools, PPA are handled differently? unaffected by FTP server change?
[15:01] <bigjools> there is a new ftp server today that verifies gpg signatures at upload time
[15:01] <jhunt_> the first 3 files upload ok, but the .changes file gives the error above. It's only 1.6k
[15:01] <bigjools> if the changes file is not signed properly, an error is returned
[15:02] <jhunt_> The file is signed
[15:02] <bigjools> signed properly means with a signature that Launchpad knows about
[15:02] <bigjools> and is not deactivated etc
[15:02] <jhunt_> gpg --verify gives "good signature"
[15:02] <bigjools> ok
[15:02] <janimo> bigjools, LP knows about this
[15:02] <janimo> the warnigns are about not being in the web of trust
[15:03] <janimo> I use the same GPG key  for 6 years
[15:03] <bigjools> ok
[15:03] <jhunt_> I've uploaded to this ppa before using the same key, etc.
[15:03] <bigjools> how long ago did you upload?
[15:03] <jhunt_> 3 days ago.
[15:04] <jhunt_> worked fine, just now failed.
[15:04] <bigjools> how long ago did you upload your most recent
[15:04] <jhunt_> 5 mins maybe?
[15:04] <jhunt_> do you want me to try again?
[15:04] <bigjools> let me know if you don't get an acceptance email in 10 minutes
[15:05] <jhunt_> ah! just got a mail saying my .changes was rejected.
[15:06] <bigjools> what was the error?
[15:06] <bigjools> janimo: yours was accepted, right?
[15:07] <janimo> yes, just the error was confusing
[15:07] <janimo> so I uploaded thrice
[15:07] <jhunt_> "File upstart_0.9.1.orig.tar.gz already exists in Upstart test packages", however, even re-running the dput with --force doesn't resolve the "Data connection closed" error, so I don't think that's the main problem?
[15:07] <bigjools> jhunt_: yes, the rejection is unrelated
[15:07] <bigjools> I suspect it's the same issue that janimo just reported
[15:08] <jhunt_> right.
[15:08] <bigjools> janimo: would you mind filing a bug please?
[15:08] <janimo> against LP?
[15:08] <bigjools> yes
[15:08] <janimo> ok
[15:08] <bigjools> thank you
[15:08] <jhunt_> if it lets you... sorry! :)
[15:08] <bigjools> jhunt_: http://blog.launchpad.net/cool-new-stuff/launchpad-package-upload-improvements
[15:09] <bigjools> this is a teething problem :)
[15:09] <jhunt_> bigjools: that's not the error I get though.
[15:09] <bigjools> jhunt_: exactly :)
[15:10] <bigjools> some errors we can ignore, but it needs to be fixed in the server
[15:10] <bigjools> right now it's warning about any kind of GPG issue
[15:10] <bigjools> janimo: it would also be super useful if you could attach your .changes file that caused the error to the bug
[15:11] <janimo> bigjools, https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/732638
[15:12] <bigjools> janimo: thank you
[15:13] <janimo> bigjools, yw
[15:13] <bigjools> janimo: can you attach your changes file?  Or did you just do that?
[15:15] <janimo> bigjools, I'll attach it
[15:16] <janimo> bigjools, attached. I thought dput output contains enough info but it does not.
[15:17] <dpm> hey, I like the loggerhead facelift, looks a lot more like LP
[15:31] <bigjools> janimo: can you try self-certifying your GPG key?
[15:34] <janimo> bigjools, uhh if you point me to a short description of how to do it or I casn figure it out later today
[15:34] <janimo> if it does not break my key, sure why not
[15:35] <bigjools> use a key tool (I use kgpg) and self-sign it  (I meant sign not certify earlier)
[15:36] <bigjools> I think that is what dput is complaining about
[15:41] <janimo> bigjools, ok I need to read some gpg manpage and see how to reproduce the warning in the first place without dput
[15:44] <maxb> Erm, isn't the self-signature on a gpg key necessarily existent as part of making it be a key? so should be already there?
[15:48] <maxb> bigjools, janimo: Are we talking about the "WARNING: This key is not certified with a trusted signature!" thing here?
[15:49] <janimo> maxb, yes
[15:49] <maxb> There's nothing you can do the the uploader's key to avoid that.
[15:49] <janimo> and the other line beside it
[15:49] <maxb> Poppy needs to stop trying to do web-of-trust checks, because they are irrelevant here
[15:52] <jhunt_> bigjools: still no auth mails received from launchpad...?
[15:53] <bigjools> maxb: yeah, I aim to get rid of those checks in poppy
[15:53] <bigjools> funny thing is, the checks are identical to the upload processor
[15:53] <bigjools> jhunt_: auth mails?
[15:54] <maxb> bigjools: Different ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf between the two components in production?
[15:54] <jhunt_> bigjools: sorry, I meant acceptance email
[15:54] <bigjools> jhunt_: if there's no acceptance mail it means there's a definite GPG problem
[15:55] <bigjools> or, the changes file is malformed
[15:55] <jhunt_> any clues on how I debug this? "dput -d" gives a backtrace.
[15:55] <bigjools> which user/ppa?  I'll check the log
[15:55] <bigjools> and what time exactly did you upload?
[15:56] <bigjools> maxb: no idea, but thanks for the hint
[15:56] <bigjools> maxb: oh actually it's the same box anyway, so no
[15:56] <jhunt_> bigjools: user is lp:~jamesodhunt, ppa is upstart-testing
[15:56] <maxb> bigjools: but is it the same user account
[15:57] <bigjools> ah, no :)
[15:57] <jhunt_> bigjools: last dput was at "Thu, 10 Mar 2011 14:23:28 +0000
[15:57] <jhunt_> " according to the rejection mail.
[16:01] <bigjools> jhunt_: you got a rejection at 15:50
[16:01] <bigjools> upstart_0.9.1.orig.tar.gz uploaded with different contents
[16:02] <bigjools> that will have emailed you
[16:03]  * bigjools stops doing jcsackett's job :)
[16:03] <jcsackett> bigjools: you were doing a better job of it. :-)
[16:04] <bigjools> jcsackett: I am happy to coach you, this is the #1 ppa-related question :)
[16:04] <jhunt_> bigjools: yes, I got that msg too, but as I say, I did a "dput -f" ??
[16:05] <bigjools> jhunt_: that is not going to help you
[16:05] <jhunt_> bigjools: do I have to delete all the existing packages to allow a re-upload maybe?
[16:05] <jcsackett> bigjools: which one? you seem to have been juggling three questions there.
[16:05] <bigjools> no
[16:05] <bigjools> jhunt_: you can never upload the same file version with different contents
[16:05] <bigjools> don't kid yourself it's the same file
[16:06] <bigjools> jhunt_: there's 2, the duplicate file rejection, and the upload with no email reply problem
[16:06] <bigjools> sorry
[16:06] <bigjools> I meant jcsackett ^
[16:06] <jcsackett> bigjools: dig.
[16:06] <bigjools> jcsackett: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+faq/990 and https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+faq/227
[16:08] <jcsackett> and now those are part of IRCSupport wiki page.
[16:09] <bigjools> suhweet
[16:17] <bigjools> jhunt_: can you tell me if you get that ftp error again, we changed something on the server
[16:36] <fta> all my ppa uploads are rejected since yesterday: http://paste.ubuntu.com/578422/
[16:36] <bigjools> fta: since this morning actually
[16:36] <bigjools> have you tried in the last 20 minutes?
[16:37] <bigjools> the upload is getting through fine, the error is wrong
[16:37] <fta> well, 4am failed, 5pm failed. last reject at 5:32, it's 5:37 here
[16:38] <bigjools> the new ftp server was installed at 10:00 utc, whatever error you got beforehand was not this one
[16:40] <Sarvatt> bigjools: mvo got a failure that actually succeeded 4 minutes ago
[16:40] <fta> here is the last one: http://paste.ubuntu.com/578425/
[16:41] <bigjools> fta: ok, let me know if you don't get a successful upload, as I said the error is wrong
[16:41] <bigjools> this is bug 732638
[16:41] <fta> oh, just got an Accepted, but only the 1st one
[16:42] <fta> the other 4 in the same dput haven't been pushed
[16:42] <fta> ..because dput failed
[16:42] <bigjools> maxb: harmonising the gpg.conf didn't help :(
[16:43] <maxb> HMM
[16:43] <maxb> * hmm
[16:43] <bigjools> the uppercase had more impact
[16:43] <maxb> How close is whatever launchpad does to invoking gpg in the shell?
[16:46] <bigjools> not entirely sure
[16:46] <bigjools> it uses gpgme
[16:48] <bigjools> jcsackett: can you help with this bug?  I need ideas on what's up
[16:48] <fta> ok, dput always fail, by 5, or one by one. nada. it uploads and fails before creating the .uploaded file
[16:49] <jcsackett> bug 732638?
[16:49] <fta> i give up, no time for this today.
[16:49] <fta> bye
[16:49] <bigjools> fta: use sftp for now
[16:50] <bigjools> jcsackett: yep
[16:50] <jcsackett> bigjools: i *think* sinzui found some issues with our keyserver two weeks ago; this could be similar?
[16:50] <jcsackett> i believe that too was triggered by a server change...
[16:50] <maxb> bigjools: Can you point me where in the tree the validation is invoked?
[16:51] <bigjools> maxb: yep, one sec
[16:51] <bigjools> maxb: oh actually look in that bug, I pasted the location
[16:51] <bigjools> in my comment
[16:52] <bigjools> maxb, jcsackett: the exact same validation done in the FTP server is done in the upload processor.
[16:52] <bigjools> the latter seems to work fine
[16:52] <jcsackett> hm.
[16:52] <bigjools> let's move to -dev
[19:24] <achiang> hello, if a bug has been marked as affecting a project, but then i decide it actually doesn't affect the project, is there a way to remove the project from the bug?
[19:25] <achiang> currently, i'm just marking it as invalid for the project
[19:25] <micahg> achiang: change the project to the null project
[19:26] <achiang> micahg: you mean literally?
[19:26] <achiang> micahg: i typed in "null" and now it's part of the NULL project
[19:26] <micahg> achiang: yes, change project to null
[19:26] <achiang> micahg: seems inelegant, but ok, thanks
[19:27] <micahg> achiang: yep, the LP team has plans to make it more elegant
[19:27] <achiang> nod
[19:27] <achiang> ok, thanks
[19:47] <tkamppeter> Any progress on bug 732638? Any workaround?
[19:50] <jcsackett> tkamppeter: bigjools earlier narrowed down the possible issues. i believe work on it is still ongoing.
[20:05] <tkamppeter> jcsackett, the uploads worked anyway, so the first of my three uploads of the same package got accepted already and the other two rejected. My package is in place, but the bug needs to get fixed to avoid unneeded upload traffic.
[20:05] <jcsackett> tkamppeter: we know, and it's being worked on.
[20:09] <tkamppeter> jcsackett, thanks anyway.
[20:15] <blueyed> What is this about? "426 Transfer aborted" on PPA upload? http://paste.ubuntu.com/578499/
[20:15] <blueyed> I've tried it multiple times, also without "-sa"
[20:16] <jcsackett> blueyed: see bug 732638.
[20:16] <jcsackett> we're currently working on it.
[20:17] <jcsackett> however, it appears despite the warning, and the last message, the upload *does* successfully complete.
[20:17] <blueyed> ok. thanks. did not happen with another upload (different dist and version only) though.
[20:17] <jcsackett> blueyed: what dist/version? more information could be relevant. :-)
[20:18] <blueyed> jcsackett: I've uploaded for natty, which worked fine, then for lucid, with "~lucid" appended to the natty version.
[20:18] <jcsackett> blueyed: you did both of these recently?
[20:18] <blueyed> yes.
[20:18] <blueyed> just now.
[20:19] <blueyed> exuberant-ctags in https://launchpad.net/~blueyed/+archive/ppa
[20:19] <jcsackett> blueyed: okay. thanks.
[20:20] <blueyed> jcsackett: to make it clear: the first upload for natty had no error, the one for lucid had.
[20:20] <jcsackett> blueyed: that's what i thought. thanks.
[20:38] <blueyed> jcsackett: I have uploaded a second revision of the package now, first for lucid then for natty. Both failed with the 426 error.
[20:38] <blueyed> *"failed"
[20:38] <jcsackett> blueyed: you mean they did go through, despite the "failure" message?
[20:39] <blueyed> jcsackett: that's mentioned in the bug already.. I have not checked for this upload, but the previous lucid upload went through.
[20:39] <jcsackett> blueyed: dig.
[20:51] <kenvandine> any known problems uploading packages to ppas?
[20:51] <kenvandine> 2k/3k426 Transfer aborted.  Data connection closed.
[20:51] <kenvandine> is what i am getting
[20:51] <jcsackett> kenvandine: see bug 732638
[20:52] <kenvandine> ok
[20:52] <jcsackett> double check this, but the uploads appear to be working despite the "failure" message.
[20:52] <kenvandine> oh
[20:53] <kenvandine> yay, it did upload
[20:53] <kenvandine> whew
[20:53] <kenvandine> thx
[20:53] <jcsackett> yw. :-)
[21:10] <lifeless> we're giving an error on every upload?
[21:13] <lifeless> wgrant: jcsackett: ^
[21:13] <jcsackett> lifeless: i believe so. bigjools took a look at it, narrowed down causes, and i believe pulled in sinzui with the intent that sinzui and thumper would chat.
[21:13] <lifeless> sinzui: thumper: ^
[21:13] <kees> ah, so the uploads are landing?
[21:13] <thumper> I've not looked yet
[21:13] <sinzui> yes, that is exactly where we are. we need to talk
[21:14] <wgrant> Whaaa?
[21:14] <wgrant> Sigh.
[21:14]  * kees expects a bunch of angry soyuz emails now after retrying the same upload 4 times
[21:14] <thumper> sinzui: let me finish off what I'm doing and we can talk
[21:14] <jcsackett> kees: yes, uploads are going through, per the bug.
[21:14] <lifeless> we did qa this, right ?
[21:15] <kees> jcsackett: okay, thanks
[21:15] <jcsackett> lifeless: "this" == ftp server upgrade?
[21:15] <lifeless> yes
[21:15] <jcsackett> i believe so, but i do not know who was doing the upgrade and in relation to what.
[21:16] <sinzui> lifeless: The first I learned of this was in the TL meeting. bigjools did mention it as something to watch. He tested it but was uncertain of the integration
[21:16] <lifeless> sinzui: is there an incident report for this ?
[21:16] <sinzui> It was not mentioned in the email from bigjools
[21:17] <lifeless> ok
[21:17] <lifeless> so this is in-your-face worrying for [unknown fraction] of uploads
[21:17] <lifeless> we need an incident report
[21:18] <lifeless> if we can revert to the old server, we should do so now.
[21:18] <lifeless> after gathering diagnostic data
[21:19] <sinzui> lifeless: this is the bug bigjools was working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/732638
[21:20] <wgrant> We can revert, but let me do a few minutes of investigation first.
[21:20] <lifeless> sinzui: thanks, yes thats the one I'm tlaking abut
[21:20] <lifeless> -> -ops and lets rope a losa in
[21:20] <Chex> 8-o
[21:46] <cody-somerville> Wasn't there a 'reply' link on comments in MPs at one point?
[21:46] <cody-somerville> I can't seem to find it now.
[21:48] <james_w> cody-somerville, there was
[21:48]  * cody-somerville wonders why it isn't there anymore. :(
[21:48] <jcsackett> cody-somerville, james_w: it is still there, in an MP i'm looking at.
[21:49] <cody-somerville> Does it go away if the MP is marked as merged?
[21:49] <cody-somerville> (it would be silly if it did but its the only thing I can think of that might be different)
[21:50] <jcsackett> cody-somerville: it would appear so.
[22:06] <donpdonp> https://launchpad.net/desktopcouch => err screen
[22:07] <wgrant> donpdonp: What's the error message?
[22:07] <wgrant> Does it have an OOPS code?
[22:07] <donpdonp> wgrant: i imagine it will show you the same msg. no OOPS code
[22:08] <wgrant> donpdonp: No, it works fine for me.
[22:08] <wgrant> What's the error that you get?
[22:08] <wgrant> It still works when I'm not logged in, too.
[22:11] <donpdonp> wgrant: sorry laptop just crashed
[22:11] <donpdonp> wgrant: reloading page
[22:11] <donpdonp> wgrant: of course, its working now :)
[22:11] <donpdonp> wgrant: old message was error connecting to the server, please visit #launchpad
[22:12] <wgrant> donpdonp: Oh, that's not good.
[22:12] <wgrant> Thanks for letting us know.
[22:12] <wgrant> lifeless: ^^
[22:13] <donpdonp> ok thx.
[22:14] <lifeless> wgrant: interrupted request
[22:14] <lifeless> wgrant: there is an rt
[22:16] <wgrant> Oh, of course.
[22:16] <wgrant> Forgot that was going on, with the other stuff.
[23:32] <mpt> FWIW, I just tried (as a test) to register with Launchpad using a @yahoo.com address and using an @aim.com address, but haven't received the registration mail at either
[23:33] <mpt> It's a couple of hours later, so I doubt it's greylisting
[23:33] <wgrant> Sigh.
[23:34] <elmo> fwiw, yahoo is one of the providers that frequently blacklists us because of our unbelivably poor story around mail (bounce specifically) handling
[23:34] <wgrant> Someone will need to pester ISD about that.
[23:55] <lifeless> elmo: you were looking up that bug number for me
[23:56] <lifeless> elmo: is it bug 341927 ?
[23:56] <elmo> yes
[23:56] <lifeless> ok, its already critical so, within 6 months


[12:58] <nixternal> how goes it my fellow kde'rz
[03:03] <ScottK> nixternal: It turns out that manchicken_ is the real Vista lover.  He confessed and everything.
[03:03] <nixternal> hehe
[03:03] <nixternal> man, I had to fork out $125 for new mobo, cpu, and heatsinc/fan
[03:04] <nixternal> going to RMA this current board, get it back, and then have my 64bit build system I have always wanted...just struck at a very hard time
[03:04] <nixternal> I hadn't realised this next week is my 8 week finals, and I need Visual Studio for one of them
[03:06] <ryanakca> ouch
[03:06] <nixternal> ya, but after this week, I will be able to work a little more on some things...especially that thing you and I talked about ScottK :)
[03:06] <ryanakca> nixternal: umm... since classroom has kindof 'branched' off from NUN, would you be interested in reconsidering joining it, after your finals?
[03:07] <ScottK> Cool.  I was wondering.
[03:07] <nixternal> never take 15 credits in 8 weeks...it is pretty difficult
[03:07] <nixternal> ryanakca: sure
[03:07] <nixternal> the other problem and I have resolved our issues, so I have no problems
[03:07] <ryanakca> ah
[03:34] <ryanakca> umm... why do I get the following when building kde4skd in pbuilder-gutsy?
[03:34] <ryanakca>  -> Considering  kdepimlibs4-dev (>= 3.91.0-0ubuntu5)
[03:34] <ryanakca>       Tried versions: 3.80.3-0ubuntu2
[03:34] <ryanakca> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepimlibs/3.91.0-0ubuntu5
[03:35] <ryanakca> oh, oops. nevermind, my bad, *blames the early time of night*
[04:16] <DaSkreech> When was the last time someone saw Jucato?
[04:31] <ryanakca> DaSkreech: in here, or on planet? I think he had a blog entry yesterday...
[04:31] <DaSkreech> Here
[04:31] <ryanakca> hmm. dunno
[05:10] <ryanakca> Riddell: looks like kde4sdk builds fine... so far
[05:12] <DaSkreech> Hobbsee: hi again
[05:14] <ryanakca> kde4sdk build fine, lintian whines a lot, but, it built, and I think the whining is known
[05:17] <Hobbsee> hi DaSkreech
[05:17] <DaSkreech> How are you?
[05:17] <ryanakca> can someone test my kde4sdk package(s)? http://packages.ryanak.ca/dists/ryan-gutsy/kde/
[05:17] <Hobbsee> mmm...good....bouncing :)
[05:17] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: bouncy chair?
[05:17] <Hobbsee> nah
[05:19] <DaSkreech> Poofy cushion?
[05:20] <ryanakca> standard old wooden chair?
[05:44] <ScottK> So, did anyone else notice that Linspire is touting one of their advantages over Ubuntu is that they provide KDE?
[05:44] <Hobbsee> right, back
[05:44] <Hobbsee> ScottK: no....but that's odd
[05:44] <DaSkreech> Whoot! :)
[05:44] <ScottK> http://www.linspire.com/products_linspire_whatis.php
[05:44] <DaSkreech> KDE is an advantage :)
[05:47] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: so go triage some of it's bugs :)
[05:47] <DaSkreech> :-)
[05:47] <ScottK> KDE, not linspire, in case you were confused.
[05:47] <DaSkreech> Since you are bouncy you may hurt yourself :)
[05:48] <ScottK> Interesting rationalization of a self defense mechanism.
[05:48] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: hah.
[05:48] <DaSkreech> Oh yeah :) I'm a Guru Zen Technobabble fiend
[05:52] <DaSkreech> hi manchicken
[05:53] <Hobbsee> hi manchicken
[06:21] <Hobbsee> ***anyone who is bored, please fix stuff on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/gutsy_probs.html - there are various main people around who can sponsor changes ***
[07:46] <Hobbsee> nixternal: are you release-noting for tribe 3?
[07:47] <nixternal> I will be yes
[07:47] <nixternal> when is it due out?
[07:47] <Hobbsee> thursday
[07:47] <nixternal> oh, ya, I will have something once again :)
[07:48] <Hobbsee> cool, tahnks :)
[07:49] <ScottK> nixternal: Do you have it in your notes to mention the crypto changes for Kmail?
[07:49] <nixternal> yup
[07:49] <ScottK> Excellent.
[10:27] <nixternal> well, 4 hours later and Windows XP still needs more software, updates, and I have to actually install Realtek audio drivers...a shame...the Kubuntu install of course went its usual 15 minutes and everything worked out of the box...why is Microsoft considered #1 again?
[10:28] <nixternal> heck in 1 hour, Kubuntu 64 is ready to build Gutsy package, test them in a chroot if needbe, and my development environment is ready to go
[10:28] <mhb> nixternal: it's not about "considering", it's just a fact
[10:29] <nixternal> a fact that is #1 in terms of users, yes...but not #1 in any other comparisons, except for maybe games
[10:29] <mhb> nixternal: how often are you going to be updating the KDE4 packages?
[10:29] <nixternal> well I need to talk to Riddell about that, I would like to do either weekly or biweekly snapshots of SVN
[10:30] <mhb> also, I think we (someone) should start making KDE4 live CDs
[10:30] <nixternal> I believe that is the plan...I think JR even said something in his talk at aKademy about that
[10:31] <mhb> ya, I believe so
[10:31] <Hobbsee> nixternal: why are you installing XP again?
[10:31] <Hobbsee> nixternal: that'd be cool
[10:31] <nixternal> my motherboard took a dump, so I went out and bought a new motherboard and cpu today
[10:31] <Hobbsee> nixternal: what are your plans for doign them?
[10:32] <nixternal> and hard drive
[10:32] <nixternal> Hobbsee: I am open to start doing them, I really don't have any plans as of yet, but I don't want to step on Riddell's toes if he has plans already in the making
[10:32] <Hobbsee> nixternal: you're doing the svn snapshots?
[10:32] <nixternal> I can if needbe
[10:33] <nixternal> I update my svn here weekly, unless something new comes out, then it could be twice a week
[10:37] <Hobbsee> nixternal: well, if you're doing svn, and Riddell is doing the actual releases, then there should be no toe-stepping-on
[10:37] <Hobbsee> nixternal: of course, he probably wont say no if you help him out with the releases too
[10:37] <nixternal> Hobbsee: I would rather help him out then duplicate the process really
[10:38] <mhb> Hobbsee: we're one release behind
[10:38] <Hobbsee> nixternal: i'm not sure that you would be duplicating them, if you were taking his debian/ each time, etc
[10:38] <Hobbsee> mhb: of?
[10:38] <mhb> kde4
[10:38] <Hobbsee> mhb: kde alphas?
[10:38] <nixternal> not anyore
[10:38] <nixternal> anymore
[10:38] <Hobbsee> ah
[10:38] <Hobbsee> i thought Riddell was uploading them during the week
[10:38] <nixternal> 3.91.0 has been uploaded
[10:38] <nixternal> they are there
[10:38] <mhb> was it?
[10:39] <nixternal> kdepimlibs5 (3.91.0) is broken though for amd64, so I wouldn't try it just yet unless you use something other than 64
[10:40] <mhb> why are we labeling it kde*5 ?
[10:40] <nixternal> so it doesn't interfere with kdepimlibs4 which is KDE3 ;)
[10:40] <mhb> yes, but it interferes with common sense, doesn't it?
[10:41] <nixternal> don't know the whole reasoning behind that though..I think because it is what debian does
[10:41] <mhb> == confusing for users
[10:41] <nixternal> I would figure kde4pimlibs
[10:43] <nixternal> oh well, time for sleep
[10:43] <nixternal> g'nite
[10:44] <mhb> see you
[10:48] <mhb> Hobbsee: are the kde4 debian/ dirs also on bzr?
[10:50] <Hobbsee> mhb: i doubt it
[10:51] <mhb> Hobbsee: if there are several people that do packages, shouldn't they be?
[10:52] <Hobbsee> mhb: probably
[12:09] <Hobbsee> mhb: there's probably a sane way of doing them.  i plan to speak to tonio_ about it, sometime
[12:23] <mhb> Hobbsee: of doing the bzr branches?
[12:23] <mhb> Hobbsee: I thought you did them before, for KDE3
[12:41] <BentJ> Question: I'm upgrading a virtual machine from feisty to gutsy by: removing korganizer, editing sources.list, update, distupgrade, but I keep winding up with that udev and volumeid do not get updated because it states udev break another package - Am I doing something wrong ?
[12:57] <hunger> Strigi is now part of gutsy (at least as a recommendation). Is that a good idea? It eats HDD space like something that eats *VERY* much.
[01:02] <mhb> hunger: isn't strigi an important part of KDE4?
[01:03] <hunger> mhb: It is.
[01:03] <hunger> mhb: No reason to recommend it in kubuntu-desktop at this time.
[01:03] <mhb> hunger: what does it do for KDE3? (sorry for me not knowing)
[01:03] <hunger> mhb: The daemon is pretty independent of kde4 and there is a kde3 applet.
[01:04] <mhb> ah
[01:04] <hunger> It is just that so far strigi does not care at all about index sizes (the developers have not even started to look at this problem yet).
[01:05] <hunger> So I usually run out of HDD while indexing when strigi's index gets bigger than about 1.2x the size of the original files.
[01:06] <hunger> strigi currently copies the indexed contents into the indexes... which causes it to get HUGE, especially when indexing compressed archives.
[01:07] <mhb> hunger: so this "bug" is what's bothering you
[01:08] <hunger> mhb: I consider it not ready for wide deployment, yes.
[01:08] <hunger> mhb: And the debs do not seem to work anyway:-(
[01:09] <mhb> hunger: I'm not sure who made the decision (I don't remember anyone talking about it, but I have been away for a few days)
[01:09] <mhb> hunger: but you should talk to the person that decided it
[01:09] <hunger> I think riddel mentioned doing at the aKademy already.
[01:09] <mhb> hunger: could be, I wasn't there :o)
[01:10] <mhb> hunger: it may be that he believes that this particular bug will be fixed soon enough
[01:10] <hunger> Anyway: Can't start the strigi daemon anyway.
[01:10] <hunger> mhb: vandenoeder said he won't get round to reducing the index sizes soon.
[01:12] <hunger> maybe it is just me with my tiny laptop HDD that is bothered by storage space requirements.
[01:12] <fdoving> oh, i could nebver imagine my strigi index to eat 5G, but it does.
[01:12] <sebas> mhb, hunger: It was decided in Sevilla
[01:12] <sebas> Some desktop search is needed
[01:12] <sebas> Using strigi seemed like a good upgrade path to kde4
[01:13] <hunger> sebas: I agree that desktop search is nice.
[01:13] <mhb> sebas: was it? Was there some information about it in the specs?
[01:13] <sebas> I guess so
[01:13] <sebas> Didn't write it myself, only attended the session
[01:13] <mhb> sebas: I just read KubuntuGutsyPlan which had no info about it
[01:13] <hunger> sebas: But then strigi currently eats up all my HDD space and then I can not work anymore. That is *really* bad.
[01:14] <sebas> Yeah, I read the backlog :)
[01:14] <hunger> sebas: I dunno whether the other desktop search engines are better (actually I doubt it, jos seems to know what he is doing;-)
[01:15] <mhb> it's like the 4th time I've heard "we discussed this at akademy" but there's no info about it on the net
[01:15] <hunger> mhb: It was not discussed at aKademy. Riddel mentioned that it was decided somewhere at aKademy IIRC.
[01:16] <mhb> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/StrigiIntegration
[01:17] <sebas> I suggest to email kubuntu-devel, preferably with some figures
[01:18] <hunger> sebas: 5Gig of free space.... indexing of a 1.2G directory stopped since it ran out of HDD. So the index got to about 4x the original size.
[01:19] <sebas> Nice ;-)
[01:20] <hunger> Any index size which is bigger than the original filesize is unacceptable IIRC.  Why do you keep your mailing lists closed (to read) ?
[01:22] <sebas> Yeah, I agree. It's better discussed on the ML, I doubt that it's a known problem
[01:57] <Hobbsee> mhb: i did.  but i'm not convinced it's the sanest way to do them
[02:32] <Hobbsee> haha, ScottK-confused today, are you?
[02:52] <Riddell> ryanakca: kde4sdk uploaded thanks, you hadn't included the debian/cdbs directory and there were some files missing from being installed
[02:52] <Hobbsee> hi Riddell
[02:52] <Riddell> morning
[02:52] <sebas> mhb: Because there's confidential things being discussed
[02:57] <mhb> sebas: such as?
[02:57] <mhb> hello Riddell
[02:57] <sebas> mhb: Well, that's confidential :-)
[02:58] <sebas> Licensing strategies, marketing strategies and such.
[02:58] <mhb> sebas: the kde-true-core-devel, eh? :o)
[02:58] <sebas> No technical issues, no.
[02:58] <mhb> sebas: how can I know? It's confidential :o)
[02:59] <mhb> sebas: that was a joke, my point is that discussions behind closed doors disturb me, when it comes to a free project
[03:00] <sebas> So you argue that *everything* has to be public?
[03:00] <mhb> sebas: in my personal opinion, it actually creates a gap between "the people in" and "the people out"
[03:01] <sebas> mhb: It's topics for those heavily involved, and the organisation is open.
[03:01] <sebas> You only have to go through some checks first.
[03:01] <sebas> http://ev.kde.org/getinvolved/members.php Here's how you can become a member.
[03:01] <mhb> sebas: I read most of the stuff there
[03:02] <sebas> Ok
[03:02] <mhb> sebas: an open source project should be open, yes
[03:02] <sebas> There are also the Quarterly Reports, if you want to know what's going on in the e.V.
[03:02] <sebas> The KDE e.V. is a foundation, not an Open Source project
[03:03] <sebas> It's supporting KDE's development process
[03:03] <sebas> The source and technical discussions and decision-making is open as it is.
[03:04] <mhb> sebas: decisions are public, the decision-making is not
[03:04] <sebas> There's some stuff you want to keep out of the press until discussion between core people has happened, that's what the closed ev list is for.
[03:04] <sebas> The technical decision making *is* public.
[03:04] <sebas> The e.V. has no influence on technical things.
[03:05] <sebas> That's in fact offtopic on that list, it's purely organisational stuff.
[03:05] <mhb> sebas: how many core developers are outside the e.v?
[03:05] <mhb> sebas: the important folks, I mean
[03:05] <sebas> I am not aware of one core-dev not being e.V. member.
[03:05] <sebas> We are in fact trying hard to get people into the e.V. that are around for a longer period of time, or are important for KDE
[03:06] <sebas> And I don't know one case where we failed
[03:07] <mhb> sebas: and by that, you create a gap between the people outside and the core developers
[03:08] <sebas> How so?
[03:08] <mhb> sebas: because we don't know what you discussed there
[03:08] <sebas> That doesn't matter, it's not technical discussions, for those that are involved enough, they do know.
[03:08] <sebas> Those that are interested what's discussed should read the reports
[03:08] <sebas> They're actually very interesting
[03:09] <sebas> I don't see a gap that's been created by the KDE e.V.'s existance, maybe you can point me at one.
[03:10] <sebas> And maybe you can also point me at a comparable Free Software project that has a foundation that does not have private discussions.
[03:11] <mhb> sebas: "comparable" is the word
[03:11] <sebas> You simply can't force anything to be open, and if you do, you loose a forum where people can speak out openly.
[03:11] <mhb> sebas: Kubuntu as a distribution has no such discussion
[03:11] <sebas> Kubuntu is not this kind of foundation.
[03:11] <sebas> And strategical discussion is being held at Canonical
[03:11] <mhb> sebas: like I said, "comparable" is the word
[03:12] <sebas> Think about the difference between "speak openly" and "open for curious people"
[03:13] <sebas> I understand that you'd like to know everything, but in this case, we'd harm the community be removing a way to discuss things interenally, before they get into the press, for example.
[03:13] <sebas> Or in the hands of Microsoft, or whoever.
[03:14] <sebas> Some issues also touch privacy, some issues simply can't be on public lists.
[03:14] <mhb> sebas: I've heard stories about "Akademy" vs. "aKademy"
[03:14] <sebas> And  your point is?
[03:15] <mhb> sebas: is that really a kind of discussion that deserves to be kept private?
[03:15] <Hobbsee> mhb: btw - ubuntu does have, and use, a private list, for a similar purpose of the eV list.
[03:15] <sebas> You can't interpolate from one topic you've heard of.
[03:15] <sebas> And you can't blame people sending emails that are offtopic.
[03:15] <mhb> sebas: I don't interpolate, I feel distrubed by it
[03:16] <mhb> sebas: I feel disturbed by a lot of things, though :o)
[03:16] <sebas> I think you shouldn't.
[03:16] <mhb> sebas: probably. I just wanted to ask you about it.
[03:16] <mhb> sebas: thanks for your time
[03:16] <sebas> Well, you can.
[03:17] <sebas> Who told you about such a discussion, btw?
[03:17] <mhb> sebas: heard gossip on IRC
[03:17] <mhb> sebas: not sure now
[03:17] <sebas> By *who*?
[03:17] <mhb> sebas: and you'd punish them, right? :o)
[03:18] <sebas> How can I?
[03:18] <Hobbsee> sebas: throw them out of the eV?
[03:18] <Hobbsee> :P
[03:18] <sebas> Why don't you tell me, when you think it should be open?
[03:19] <mhb> sebas: shouldn't I be supposed to undermine the organisation instead? :o)
[03:19] <sebas> mhb: Why should you?
[03:19] <sebas> What good does that do?
[03:23] <mhb> sebas: I still want the people who spread the info to remain unpunished
[03:23] <mhb> sebas: they didn't do it on purpose
[03:24] <sebas> What if people want to tell other KDE people this kind of information (information that can get them or others into problems when made public)? Should they be able to do so?
[03:24] <Hobbsee> then they'd just use private email, if that list was public, i expect
[03:25] <sebas> That's not the point, Hobbsee.
[03:25] <sebas> If I understand mhb correctly, also private email should be "open"
[03:25] <sebas> (it's an open source thing, after all)
[03:25] <Hobbsee> sebas: oh true, i'm merely saying that's what people would do, if that were the case.
[03:25] <mhb> sebas: no, you don't understand me in this point
[03:25] <Hobbsee> yeah
[03:25] <sebas> mhb: What's your point then?
[03:26] <sebas> I don't think there's a non-technical difference between private email and a private list.
[03:26] <sebas> After all, I could just email all e.V. members, or all the people I think should be aware of something.
[03:27] <mhb> sebas: decision making should be open, when it comes to a free project
[03:27] <sebas> What kind of decisions?
[03:27] <mhb> sebas: any non-marketing related one
[03:28] <sebas> What is 'making deciions open'?
[03:28] <sebas> Is that "everyone should be able to vote" for example?
[03:28] <Hobbsee> mhb: say, if i get harassed by....oh i dont know, jucato, or someone, who is a member of the ubuntu project.  Now, if i take that to the CC, i'm not really going to want to take that to a public list, and expose them, with all the chatlogs, in public, right?  there are legit uses for private lists
[03:28] <mhb> sebas: I'm so sorry I interrupt, but I need to go away for a while
[03:29] <Hobbsee> mhb: in fact, if i went publically with that, i'd probably be breaking the COC.
[03:29] <sebas> For the case Hobbsee mentions, we have an even more private list (closed to non-board ev-members)
[03:29] <sebas> That's the list of the KDE e.V. board.
[03:29] <Hobbsee> as in, he'd need to be punished for it, but tehre's no need to splash it to the entire world, which could influence his future prospects, etc
[03:30] <sebas> mhb: think also about legal issues while under way
[03:30] <Hobbsee> <and that's all hypothetical>
[03:30] <sebas> Hobbsee: Well, it's still a very valid example
[03:30] <sebas> (unfortunately)
[03:30] <Hobbsee> oh true, i didnt want to accuse jucato or something, though :)
[03:34] <ryanakca> Riddell: oops, sorry
[03:37] <ryanakca> hmmm... I guess since I haven't had any negative replies to the proposition yet, and it's a stormy day, I might as well work on the server
[03:38] <ryanakca> Try Kolab first, or go for straight eGroupware?
[03:38] <ryanakca> And... is there anybody with a kubuntu style domain (thinks loco, etc) that is willing to donate a subdomain?
[03:44] <fdoving> ryanakca: i have kde.no you can have something under that if you want.
[03:45] <mhb> sebas: a Hobbsee's example is a valid one
[03:45] <mhb> sebas: (still, if she was harassed by a core-dev, he would read the ML, too)
[03:46] <mhb> sebas: but having a mailing list which is closed, but all "important" folks are in it is rather disturbing for me
[03:46] <mhb> sebas: I can understand that a foundation can have marketing-related discussions that should be closed
[03:46] <sebas> How about legal issues?
[03:46] <mhb> sebas: same as a company like Canonical
[03:47] <mhb> sebas: but there should be only people that are really needed to know it, like the e.v. council and some marketing-related folks
[03:47] <sebas> So it disturbs you that there's a list you can't read, but you understand it's needed?
[03:48] <ryanakca> sebas: is e.V. to KDE as Canonical is to Ubuntu?
[03:48] <mhb> sebas: no, what distrubs me that there's a list where all the core developers are in, but which the public is unable to read
[03:49] <sebas> mhb: But you said you'd understand private lists for marketing and legal stuff?
[03:49] <mhb> sebas: why should a "kopete" maintainer read the news about "Akademy" vs. "aKademy" and the public should not?
[03:49] <mhb> that was an example, I don't know the person
[03:50] <sebas> mhb: There is no news.
[03:50] <mhb> sebas: oh, really? :o)
[03:50] <sebas> It's just an offtopic discussion.
[03:51] <mhb> sebas: I understand the point about private discussions
[03:51] <sebas> Good then :)
[03:51] <mhb> sebas: I also say not everyone is able to vote
[03:51] <ryanakca> fdoving: hmm. That would be nice, please and thank you... except, might be hard to distinguish that it's -for-kubuntu-, but oh well :)
[03:51] <sebas> You've only caught a bad example.
[03:51] <mhb> sebas: but why should a "kopete" maintainer be there?
[03:52] <mhb> sebas: what does he need to know that I cannot?
[03:52] <sebas> Legal issues, trademark crap, have input on those questions?
[03:52] <mhb> sebas: you cannot solve this in a private mail?
[03:52] <ryanakca> sebas: KDE is a meritocracy, correct? (like Debian?)
[03:52] <sebas> Often, being in the e.V. is a sanity check for people and if they're really KDE people and would act in the advantage of the project.
[03:52] <sebas> ryanakca: yes
[03:53] <sebas> mhb: right, private email doesn't scale (and it's really only a technical difference)
[03:53] <mhb> sebas: heh, they wouldn't act against their employer in the first place
[03:53] <fdoving> ryanakca: you can of ourse try to find something better, then if you don't ping me .
[03:54] <ryanakca> fdoving: ok, will do :)
[03:54] <sebas> mhb: Yes, that's part of the sanity check. It's taken with a grain of salt though.
[03:54] <mhb> sebas: they actually do. Even if you try to avoid it, it creates an aura of the "kde-real-core-devel" channel
[03:54] <mhb> sebas: because *all* the important folks are there
[03:54] <sebas> It doesn't mean that KDE is their highest priority though. But we *do* check that KDE contribution is not merely due to employment (read questionnaire on ev.kde.org)
[03:54] <ryanakca> Riddell: did we/are we going to include the compact kmilo patch?
[03:55] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: it's already in.  looks very pretty
[03:55] <Hobbsee> else i'm confused about what it is
[03:55] <sebas> ryanakca: if you refer to smaller kmilo notifications, it's in
[03:55] <mhb> sebas: I can live with a "e.v. board" channel because I'm sure you cannot influence all the devs directly through that
[03:55] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: oooh goodies :D
[03:55] <sebas> mhb: Well, I'm afraid you have to live with a private ev list as well.
[03:55] <arun> Has anyone offered to redesign kubuntu.com?
[03:55] <mhb> arun: yes
[03:56] <arun> mhb: cool, who is doing it?
[03:56] <mhb> arun: kwwii mainly
[03:57] <arun> cool
[03:57] <mhb> sebas: but I'm afraid you have to live with me criticising it everywhere because of the "kde-real-core-devel" aura
[03:58] <sebas> mhb: Is that some threat? "I will tell people it sucks"
[03:58] <sebas> I think that won't put you into a good light either.
[03:58] <mhb> sebas: oh, I thought we're talking threats
[03:58] <sebas> And it's not a productive way as well.
[03:59] <mhb> sebas: because your last response was one as well
[03:59] <sebas> Honestly, just try to live with it.
[03:59] <sebas> That's a misunderstanding then.
[03:59] <sebas> You just didn't convince me it's a bad thing.
[03:59] <mhb> sebas: well, "you cannot do anything about it." sounds very unproductive to me
[03:59] <sebas> That's untrue, you're right.
[04:00] <sebas> Get more involved with KDE, propose to open this list. That's what you can do.
[04:00] <mhb> sebas: yes, that's the point.
[04:00] <mhb> sebas: again restricting people from the outside of the e.v.
[04:01] <sebas> Repeating myself: this list has totally absolutely nothing to do with core-devel, it's *not* about technical decisions.
[04:01] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Network was confused.  I was sleeping.
[04:01] <Hobbsee> ScottK: heh
[04:01] <sebas> it's not restricted, there's a clearly defined way of getting in.
[04:01] <sebas> http://ev.kde.org/
[04:01] <sebas> We only have to secure ourselves against poisonous people taking important decisions (trademark, legal, marketing, for example)
[04:03] <sebas> mhb: If you're really concerned about it, by the way, you can send an email to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and complain.
[04:04] <mhb> I have a bad experience with kde teams, to be honest. I know teams that are poisoned from the inside (no public discussions at all - everything gets decided in Novell private chats). That is why I'd like to see proof that this one is really restricted to the non-tech decisions.
[04:04] <mhb> It's my bad experience that is influencing my opinions, I know.
[04:05] <sebas> That's not come to my attention yet. I can't really comment on that.
[04:05] <mhb> and I'd really like to see proof especially because I've heard gossip.
[04:05] <mhb> again my personal experience
[04:05] <sebas> Not more than: "I've not seen anything like this happening (a company taking too much influence in KDE)
[04:06] <sebas> And then, you're probably talking about technical decisions, which is *not* e.V. material.
[04:06] <sebas> I get the impression that you're oversimplifying things a lot.
[04:07] <mhb> sebas: I mean - I'd like to see a clear policy on what is discussed at e.v.
[04:08] <Hobbsee> sebas: that's what you said before, and failed
[04:08] <mhb> yes
[04:08] <sebas> Hobbsee: Now I won't :)
[04:09] <Hobbsee> :P
[04:09] <mhb> sebas: you get a bad mark from me for ignoring people.  I've killed more than an hour of my free time trying to explain things to you. I'm actually pretty pissed you accuse me of ignoring you.
[04:11] <mhb> sebas: I'd do the same if somebody argued with me for that long.
[04:11] <sebas> So there you got me angry as well, thanks a lot for that.
[04:11] <fdoving> it's offtopic anyway, stfu :)
[04:12] <mhb> good point.
[04:12] <fdoving> grr.. konqueror doesn't like all java applets..
[04:13] <sebas> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4216011961522818645 half-related, but very interesting.
[04:13] <mhb> sebas: sorry for making you angry.
[04:15] <mhb> sebas: I didn't want to "kill" one our of your time either. I'm sorry to hear you consider discussions like this a waste of time.
[04:17] <ryanakca> hmmm... methinks kubuntu.org should get a user map like http://www.kubuntu-fr.org/carte/ :D well, I think it's interesting at least, it let's you see who uses Kubuntu near you, and gives you the possibility of forming a LUG...
[04:18] <ryanakca> just an idea thrown into the wind, if kwwii is interested
[04:54] <ryanakca> Riddell: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8481683/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.kde4sdk_3.91.0-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[06:12] <nixternal> mornin'
[06:17] <ScottK> Good morning.
[06:18] <Hobbsee> hiya nixternal, ScottK
[06:18] <nixternal> howdy
[06:30] <mhb> good morning everyone
[06:30] <mhb> and good night, Hobbsee
[06:33] <Hobbsee> $%^^^%$^&&
[06:33] <Hobbsee> not quite
[06:34] <nixternal> wo, when are we going to get Kobuntu :)
[06:35] <nixternal> wo? so*
[06:36] <Hobbsee> helps if the URL's work
[06:37] <nixternal> yes, but it would be nice to have a Kobuntu LiveCD to install instead of that pesky gnome desktop ;p
[06:37] <Hobbsee> yeah, but i really dont like the thought of testing another cd...
[06:37] <Hobbsee> sorry, batch of
[06:37] <nixternal> I will do it all! :)
[06:37] <Hobbsee> :P
[06:37] <Hobbsee> just do the amd64's
[06:37] <nixternal> I got them covered
[06:37] <Hobbsee> thanks :)
[06:44] <mhb> nixternal: err, sorry for the question, but is there anything restricted other than drivers?
[06:44] <nixternal> I think just the drivers..the best people to ask would be someone like ompaul who worked on gNewSense
[06:44] <mhb> okay, thanks
[06:52] <Hobbsee> right, now that post is thru, and correct, i really can go to bed.
[10:02] <jjesse> afternoon
[10:31] <jjesse> !nixternal
[10:31] <ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
[10:31] <jjesse> man i love that
[10:43] <Tonio_> jjesse: hehe :)
[10:43] <jjesse> i think sometimes i do it because i know it bothers him :)
[10:54] <Riddell> Tonio_: have you uploaded k-d-s with the new artwork?
[10:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: nope, it's just commited bzr
[10:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: I was waiting for ken to upload all the artwork
[10:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: kdelibs ftbfs on i386, still the icon issue, so I'm fixing the package once and for all
[10:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: is the last part of the artwork ready somewhere ?
[10:58] <Riddell> Tonio_: no, it's not
[10:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: oki :)


[07:46] <DiveSurfer> hi guys, i have some trouble with my gdm on a ubunut 17.10
[07:46] <DiveSurfer> i swichts from lightDM to gdm3, now when i press "SUPER +L" the screen is locked, when i login the lockscreen my session is generated new
[07:46] <DiveSurfer> has anyone have an idea what can i do?
[18:22] <jbicha> ricotz: hi, is there anything in the vala 0.36.6 update that would make this bug worse? https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=786248
[18:23] <jbicha> when I did the totem 3.26.0 update in Debian (with vala 0.36.5), it failed the first time on amd64 but built the second time
[18:23] <jbicha> https://buildd.debian.org/status/logs.php?pkg=totem&arch=amd64
[18:23] <jbicha> but I'm having really bad luck today trying to test-build totem 3.26.0
[18:32] <ricotz> jbicha, I doubt it, totem is part vala's CI
[18:33] <ricotz> I assume the switch to meson didn't trigger it?
[18:34] <ricotz> hmm the totem plugins are not built here
[18:34] <jbicha> I don't think it was this bad earlier, but yes, it is caused by the switch to meson earlier
[18:39] <ricotz> jbicha, I assume it simply fails to properly set the girdir to the uninstalled build location?
[18:41] <jbicha> I don't know. I'm willing to try patches if you come up with one since totem is basically unbuildable for me now on amd64 :(
[18:43] <ricotz> jbicha, I would blame meson here :(
[18:43] <ricotz> jbicha, did you try passing "-j1"?
[18:43] <jbicha> yes, I'm using dh --no-parallel
[18:43] <ricotz> oops, right
[18:43] <jbicha> the GNOME bug links to a meson report
[18:46] <ricotz> did you already tried to force the gir build to happen earlier or added more explicit dependency?
[18:46] <jbicha> no
[18:47] <ricotz> not sure if meson 0.43 would make a difference
[18:48] <jbicha> now that so much stuff is built with meson, I'm uncomfortable with artful getting a major new version but we could cherry-pick individual fixes
[18:49] <ricotz> I think cherry-picking isn't a good idea
[18:49] <ricotz> fixing it in totem's buildsys should be possible somehow imo
[18:53] <jbicha> packaging is at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/totem/ubuntu if you want to try something
[19:17] <ricotz> jbicha, could you try https://paste.debian.net/plain/990289
[19:21] <ricotz> you are able to reproduce this locally?
[20:40] <jbicha> ricotz: yes, I can reproduce locally and that patch didn't seem to fix the issue :(
[21:03] <ricotz> jbicha, https://paste.debian.net/plain/990316
[21:04] <jbicha> oh, I applied the previous patch wrong
[21:14] <ricotz> jbicha, sorry, I messed up
[21:14] <ricotz> jbicha, https://paste.debian.net/plain/990319
[21:15] <jbicha> first patch didn't work, but second patch (990316) is working with and without parallel build
[21:17] <ricotz> jbicha, will clean it up further
[21:17] <jbicha> ok
[21:21] <ricotz> jbicha, https://paste.debian.net/plain/990323
[21:22] <ricotz> hmm, the second hunk wasnt intended
[21:23] <ricotz> jbicha, https://paste.debian.net/plain/990324 -- last one
[21:24] <ricotz> let me know if this still works out
[21:24] <ricotz> will attach it to the bug then
[21:31] <jbicha> ricotz: thanks, the build succeeds with --parallel with 990324 patch
[21:32] <ricotz> jbicha, good :)


[11:02] <nebuchadnezzar> hello
[11:08] <nebuchadnezzar> I'm trying to preseed a Trusty server iso but it's very slow due to mount attempt of my empty disk /dev/vda. Here are the logs https://paste.debian.net/169869/ do you have any hints ?
[11:09] <nebuchadnezzar> I can provide the complete installer log if you want
[11:38] <nebuchadnezzar> Interestingly, when preseed/early_command finish, I do not have the problem anymore: https://paste.debian.net/169880/
[13:39] <nebuchadnezzar> I think I found https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/localechooser/+bug/1450025
[14:08] <slashd> Is it possible to set gpt at all with preseed? I have found this : https://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2011/04/msg00244.html but there is no reply
[14:12] <nebuchadnezzar> slashd: Do you boot is UEFI or BIOS mode?
[14:13] <slashd> nebuchadnezzar, UEFI
[14:14] <nebuchadnezzar> I use this as the first partition http://git.baby-gnu.net/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=hands-off.git;a=blob;f=preseed/classes/partition/base/amd64-efi_recipe;hb=refs/heads/dad/features
[14:16] <nebuchadnezzar> the efi partition must be 35Mo, so I set 64Mo and use method { efi }
[14:17] <nebuchadnezzar> note that I use a wip-all preseed http://git.baby-gnu.net/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=hands-off.git;a=blob;f=preseed/classes/partition/auto/preseed;hb=refs/heads/dad/features
[14:18] <nebuchadnezzar> slashd: note that I always test with empty disk, I don't know how my settings will behave with a DOS pre-partitionned disk
[14:19] <nebuchadnezzar> I think it will remove the DOS label, but I'm not sure
[14:20] <slashd> nebuchadnezzar, thanks
[15:13] <nebuchadnezzar> I do not manage to preseed language on 14.04.2, if someone has an idea : https://paste.debian.net/169927/