[06:57] <dholbach> good morning
[07:08] <duflu> dholbach: Good afternoon
[07:09] <dholbach> hi duflu
[07:18] <Nirmik_Kale_RnD> memory_used, memory_allocated, cpu_used, cpu_allocated
[07:18] <Nirmik_Kale_RnD> sorrry
[07:19] <ogra_> quite some statement though...
[08:44] <Mirv> pstolowski: does app installing from store use DBus at some point, somehow?
[08:45] <Mirv> pstolowski: we've a silo affecting QDBus (only) and a suspicion that app installation has more problems than before with it
[08:48] <Mirv> or alecu ^
[08:48] <pstolowski> Mirv, dbus is used to monitor installation progress
[08:49] <pstolowski> Mirv, (for the progress bar in the preview)
[08:49] <Mirv> pstolowski: ok. if there'd be a dbus error during installation, would there be an error log somewhere?
[08:51] <Mirv> pstolowski: this is about silo 018 that has a fix for the blocker bug of unity8 hanging on boot sometimes, which started appearing when libusermetrics started using more DBus in February, and the only solution is to fix the QDBus with a huge patchset from upstream
[08:52] <pstolowski> uh
[08:55] <pstolowski> Mirv, apps store scope just passes dbus object path to unity8 dash and doesn't interact with dbus directly (at least when it comes to installation); probably unity8/dash logs are first to look at
[08:55] <Mirv> pstolowski: ok, thanks
[08:57] <Saviq> tvoss, Q: we're working on persisting suspended app screenshots so that we don't keep them all in memory and can unload them as needed... having done that, if you reboot when you've had an app open and start it again, it will show the screenshot, assuming the app will restore
[08:58] <tvoss> Saviq, unload them as in unload the screenshot or unload the app?
[08:59] <Saviq> tvoss, app's not there by then (it's OOM'ed)
[08:59] <tvoss> Saviq, ack
[08:59] <Saviq> tvoss, i.e. we only use the screenshot if the app's OOM'ed, or starting
[08:59] <tvoss> that sounds good
[08:59] <Saviq> tvoss, [...] which feels correct in how our lifecycle is meant to work, but almost no apps currently do restore
[08:59] <tvoss> Saviq, aha ... so we have an issue with a visual glitch switching from stored screenshot to first screen provided by app?
[09:00] <Saviq> tvoss, well, yeah, and some weirdness that you start the app but get the screenshot straight away
[09:00] <Saviq> tvoss, it'll be reduced if/when we persist the right edge stack
[09:00] <tvoss> Saviq, mind elaborating on the first statement?
[09:01] <Saviq> tvoss, today, if you start the app after boot, we show the splash screen
[09:01] <Saviq> tvoss, and since apps don't restore, this looks consistent because on reboot the apps just start from scratch
[09:01] <Saviq> so splash screen → "fresh" app
[09:01] <tvoss> yup
[09:02] <Saviq> obviously when they're OOM'ed, it looks wrong too, because it's then screenshot → "fresh" app
[09:02] <Saviq> but now we'd extend that ↑ behaviour to reboots, too
[09:02] <Saviq> which, again, feels "correct", because we never said a reboot resets apps (or did we?)
[09:03] <Saviq> but from a user perspective might feel weird
[09:04] <nhaines> Saviq: it's what Android 5.0 does, at least.
[09:04] <nhaines> It does feel slightly weird, but you get used to it.  :)
[09:05] <Saviq> nhaines, good enough for me :)
[09:05] <Saviq> at least now we'll nudge app devs to start restoring state
[09:06] <tvoss> Saviq, yup @restoring state. do you know the state of the SDK support facilities in that case?
[09:06] <tvoss> Saviq, probably a cross fade from screenshot to first app frame might be helpful, too?
[09:06] <Saviq> tvoss, there is https://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-14.10/Ubuntu.Components.StateSaver/
[09:06] <tvoss> bzoltan_, ^
[09:07] <tvoss> bzoltan_, do we have any idea how the adoption rate by developers is? also: iiuc, this is opt in?
[09:08] <Saviq> tvoss, yeah sure, we can also apply some effect on the screenshot (desaturation was one idea) while it's loading
[09:08] <Saviq> tvoss, an activity indicator in the middle of the screenshot likely makes sense, too
[09:08] <tvoss> Saviq, yup, I think we should stick to "correct", minimizing visual disturbance when going from screenshot -> first frame
[09:09] <Saviq> tvoss,
[09:09] <Saviq> ack
[09:09] <Saviq> tsdgeos, confirmed ↑
[09:09] <tvoss> Saviq, is there an easy way to get a simple video of "no effects", "with crossfade", "with desaturation"?
[09:09] <mcphail> I like the idea of desaturating the screenshot
[09:10] <nhaines> I think you should do a pallete cycle like those old DOS demos.  Ambient demoscene loading music optional.
[09:10] <tvoss> Saviq, just to make sure stakeholders can comment on the MP without understanding the code?
[09:10] <Saviq> /we should stop calling it screenshot, it's an app-shot ;P
[09:10] <Saviq> tvoss, sure
[09:11] <mcphail> my apps would benefit from being taken out and shot
[09:12] <mcphail> Saviq: beyond the StateSaver, is there a way for apps to save their state if shut down cleanly? A hook or signal which would allow a write to the config file?
[09:12] <tvoss> true @appshot
[09:12] <Saviq> mcphail, you can do whatever you need when your app becomes inactive
[09:12] <Saviq> mcphail, you *should* even
[09:13] <mcphail> Saviq: so if a user swipes away the app, how do I save state?
[09:14] <Saviq> mcphail, right, that's a different pair of pants, and we'll likely resume the app in that case and let you know to shut down cleanly
[09:14] <Saviq> tvoss, ↑?
[09:15] <tvoss> mcphail, no need to, you will always receive a signal prior to suspension with a grace period before you are being shot
[09:15] <Saviq> tvoss, no, but when the user swipes the app away
[09:15] <tvoss> Saviq, no need to
[09:15] <Saviq> tvoss, we need to let it know to actually clear state
[09:15] <tvoss> Saviq, nope, not really
[09:15] <tvoss> Saviq, that's unfocused, but nothing more
[09:16] <Saviq> tvoss, no, swiped away in the spread
[09:16] <Saviq> tvoss, as in closed
[09:16] <Saviq> tvoss, when you launch the app again after that, you don't want it to restore
[09:16] <tvoss> Saviq, ah okay, so actively closed: I *think* we send the same signal
[09:16] <tvoss> oh okay, got it now :) sorry, need coffee
[09:17] <tvoss> so yeah, about to be closed might make sense here
[09:17] <Saviq> tvoss, not sure what ubuntu-app-launch does now, but it'd need to resume and SIGTERM, likely
[09:17] <tvoss> Saviq, so yeah, it would need to resume if suspended, then deliver notification, then sigterm
[09:17] <tvoss> hmmm, or could we leverage sigterm and a subsequent sigkill if app takes too long ...
[09:17] <Saviq> why notification, sigterm not enough?
[09:18] <Saviq> tvoss, yup, that's what upstart does already
[09:18] <tvoss> as long as we expose sigterm in an easily consumable way: fine as well
[09:18] <Saviq> tvoss, you generally get 5s after sigterm
[09:18] <tvoss> yup
[09:18] <tvoss> remembering now
[09:18] <tvoss> so we should check if sigterm is translated/available in QML
[09:18] <tvoss> bzoltan_, ^
[09:19] <Saviq> tvoss, http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qml-qtquick-window-window.html#closing-signal
[09:19] <mcphail> +1 - signal handling from qml would be great
[09:19] <tvoss> Saviq, I would be surprised if sigterm is mapped tbh
[09:20] <Saviq> tvoss, it is
[09:20] <Saviq> tvoss, if you Ctrl+C qmlscene, the window just gets closed
[09:20] <tvoss> Saviq, okay, that's probably fine then
[09:20] <Saviq> tvoss, /me just not sure if MainView is a Window, it likely should be
[09:21] <Saviq> it's not atm, but you can probably wrap a MainView in a Window to get the same
[09:21] <ogra_> i dont think MainView is an actual window, only a fraction of it ... i.e. you cant fullscreen it properly
[09:21] <tvoss> Saviq, one other bit is: this works in single-surface scenarios. the more general approach would be to have the signal on the app instance
[09:22] <karni> search box in header (Messaging, Phone, for instance) does not pop the keyboard in vivid-proposed. is this a known bug?
[09:22] <karni> open Messaging -> hit search -> search box shows up focused, no keyboard
[09:23] <Saviq> tvoss, yeah true, just confirmed closing isn't emitted on Ctrl+C
[09:42] <ogra_> kemmko, would you mind to take care of bug 1445106 ... i know we had a similar one before but cant find it
[09:47] <kemmko> ogra_: having a look now
[09:47] <ogra_> thanks !
[09:56] <kemmko> ogra_: assigned the corresponding designer but pasted a link to the new notifications spec, the desired behaviour should be defined there
[09:56] <ogra_> kemmko, awesome, thanks :)
[09:58] <kemmko> ogra_:  no problem at all :)
[10:02] <brunch875> good morning!
[10:02] <AlanBell> how do I update apps that are updated in the store?
[10:03] <AlanBell> or how do I get the updated version rather
[10:03] <ogra_> AlanBell, they show in the updates in system-settings
[10:04] <ogra_> (unlkike system updates you dont get a notification for them, so you need to manually check there)
[10:04] <AlanBell> I see
[10:04] <AlanBell> and I wasn't looking there because I made it writeable
[10:05] <ogra_> writable rootfs doesnt change the upgrades :)
[10:06] <ogra_> (system-image upgrades will revert all your changes though)
[10:06] <AlanBell> indeed, it just changes my probablility of looking in the right place
[10:06] <ogra_> heh
[10:06]  * AlanBell installs 25 updates
[10:22] <richi__> Is it possible to have alternative keyboards on ubuntu-touch like with android? Or at least configure more meaningful long-press events?
[10:24] <beuno> richi__, not yet, but we certainly have our eye on that feature
[10:25] <bzoltan_> tvoss: ack, i look after it
[10:29] <richi__> beuno: Above the keyboard are special key combinations that are valuable for a lot of use cases. But Ctrl-B for tmux is missing.
[10:29] <richi__> beuno: That's in the terminal app.
[10:40] <ogra_> richi__, you can define that part of the terminal app via json files yourself
[10:41] <ogra_> richi__, https://swordfishslabs.wordpress.com/2015/02/27/json-profiles-in-ubuntu-terminal-app/
[11:30] <Saviq> nhaines, FYI bug #1447566
[11:37] <Silex> does anyone know if someone is working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/messaging-app/+bug/1436979 ?
[11:37] <popey> i think we have general copy/paste issues which are on the roadmap to be fixed, yes
[11:38] <ogra_> yeah, not specific to apps at all ...
[11:38] <ogra_> the toolkit needs to fix tht
[11:39] <Silex> popey: good. It's very annoying that "Telegram" is a better app than the basic SMS messaging app in that regard
[11:39] <Silex> (in Telegram you can copy/forward)
[11:39] <ogra_> just convert all your friends to telegram then ... bug fixed ;)
[11:39] <Silex> :)
[11:40] <Silex> I'm a C++/Qt dev and I started looking into fixing some bugs, I have to get used to QML but it looks fairly similar to js
[11:40] <Silex> How easy it is to test stuffs? Just clone some bazaar branch, make some changes & run it in the SDK simulator?
[11:41] <popey> Silex: yeah, the emulator isn't in a great state IMO
[11:41] <popey> better off using a device
[11:41] <ogra_> i even edit and test on the phone directly ... just in the /opt/click.ubunt.com/ dir of the app
[11:42] <ogra_> QMl is simple enough for doing that
[11:42] <Silex> popey: I own an Aquaris 4.5 BQ
[11:42] <jgdx> You can copy whole messages from the messaging app
[11:42] <Silex> jgdx: really?
[11:42]  * Silex tries
[11:42] <jgdx> Silex, drag message to left
[11:43] <Silex> holy cow
[11:43] <jgdx> not sure it's in r21 though
[11:43] <Silex> cool!
[11:43] <Silex> never noticed there was options there
[11:43] <Silex> I noticed left drag in other apps but never right drag
[11:44] <richi__> ogra_: this is great. Thanks for the URL. I'll do that.
[11:44] <Silex> popey: alright, I'll try to make a patch for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-clock-app/+bug/1442518
[11:45] <Silex> popey: this sounds easy to test & fix, so basically with my connected phone I can cross-compile & replace the alarm app that runs on my phone?
[11:45] <nik90> Silex: hi, I just noticed the bug this morning
[11:45] <nik90> Silex: let me know if you need help with building and testing it.
[11:45] <Silex> nik90: yeah it's kinda annoying. As a workaround, quickly edit the alarm and save it
[11:46] <Silex> nik90: I'm starting to get my hands into ubuntu touch dev, so I need to understand how the basic workflow goes
[11:46] <nik90> Silex: I was going through the code logic that does the rescheduling, but am yet to find a solution.
[11:47] <Silex> nik90: yeah as posted in the comment, the code *looks* correct, I think the bug is deeper in the alarmModel
[11:48] <nik90> Silex: the alarm model is provided to the clock app by the Ubuntu SDK..clock app just add/removes alarms from the model.
[11:49] <Silex> nik90: good to know
[11:51] <Se7> hi guys
[11:51] <Se7> i ve got 2 update, telegramm and my photo but they didn t downloading
[11:52] <Se7> i m connected on wifi
[11:52] <Silex> Se7: I had these this morning, upgraded fine. Try rebooting your phone?
[11:53] <Silex> nik90: any idea which one of these to look at? https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team
[11:54] <nik90> Silex: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/staging
[11:54] <Se7> already had a reboot i will try again
[11:54] <Silex> nik90: thanks, I looked in the one without "staging"
[11:55] <nik90> Silex: usually fixes and new features land in staging before being copied over to trunk
[11:55] <nik90> Silex: sdk devs expect development to happen in staging
[11:55] <Silex> nik90: alright. I'll grep my way into finding the alarm model :)
[11:57] <nik90> Silex: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/staging/files/head:/modules/Ubuntu/Components/plugin/
[11:57] <nik90> Silex: if you have any questions regarding the alarm model, it is best to talk to zsombi on #ubuntu-app-devel
[11:57] <nik90> Silex: he is the sdk dev working on it
[11:59] <Se7> still not downloading :(
[12:02] <popey> mardy: ralsina you joining us in #ubuntu-touch-meeting ?
[12:03] <mardy> popey: one sec
[12:11] <Silex> nik90: thanks for all the infrmations
[12:15] <mcphail> 4 weeks of using UT and I forgot how to switch apps in android...
[12:15] <ogra_> yeah, the missing right swipe is annoying
[12:16]  * ogra_ remembers that from 1y ago when he still touched android phones
[12:16] <mcphail> perhaps I should file a bug
[12:23] <jgdx> ogra_, switching on ios–what a nightmare
[12:23] <ogra_> haha
[12:24] <cwayne> mardy, yo, is there any doc for creating a account-plugin for a non-oauth based provider?
[12:24] <jgdx> i own an ios6 ipad and I spend 90% of the time pressing 'the one button'
[12:25] <mardy> cwayne: not really, but you can look at the owncloud one: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~danielholm/owncloud-app/trunk/files/head:/plugin/qml/
[12:27] <cwayne> mardy, interesting, thanks. and owncloud is *just* user/pass?
[12:27] <Silex> nik90: I think I maybe found it
[12:27] <Silex> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/staging/view/head:/modules/Ubuntu/Components/plugin/ucalarm.cpp#L133
[12:27] <Silex> in line 166, if alarmDate compares *only* the date and not the time, the our bug will happen
[12:27] <Silex> if it compares the time too, then the bug is somewhere else
[12:28] <Silex> s/the our/then our/
[12:28] <mardy> cwayne: it's hostname, user and pass
[12:30] <Silex> ah no, it also compares the time
[12:41] <jgdx> Silex, nik90: One thing about alarms, when I set one at night (usually around 23-01), I'm always a bit suprised that it suggests setting the alarm 30 minutes ahead of time.
[12:42] <jgdx> I think ios got that right, now + 8 hours or something
[12:42] <nik90> jgdx: clock app usually rounds up the time to the closest multiple of 5...so if you press add alarm at 23:01 ... it should show 23:05 and you can decide to keep that or change it.
[12:43] <nik90> jgdx: does it show you 23:30 instead?
[12:43] <jgdx> Wellark, the icon in the indicator is an alarm clock, used for waking people up :)
[12:43] <jgdx> nik90, ^
[12:43] <jgdx> who sleeps for 5 minutes?
[12:44] <mcphail> jgdx: me - this morning when I missed the snooze button :)
[12:44] <nik90> jgdx: well not like that, for instance now its 14:45 here..and when I open the new alarm page, it will show 14:45.. you can then change that to whatever time you want..its basically rounding of is what I meant to say
[12:45] <nik90> jgdx: which is why I am curious to know why it suggested setting the alarm to 30 minutes ahead of time
[12:45] <jgdx> nik90, I meant 5, I just guessed
[12:46] <nik90> jgdx: so what exactly do you want alarms to show?
[12:46] <jgdx> nik90, now + 8 hours
[12:46] <nik90> jgdx: and what If I want to set an alarm for the next hour?
[12:46] <jgdx> if I want to boil eggs, or do something in one hour I use a timer
[12:47] <nik90> jgdx: people take power naps which last an hour or two. ... in which case a one-time alarm can be used
[12:47] <nik90> jgdx: true, but clock app doesnt have a timer
[12:47] <jgdx> it will
[12:47] <nik90> in fact there is no timer for ubuntu touch yet
[12:48] <jgdx> that's a good point though, I thought there was a timer
[12:48] <jgdx> nik90, is that tracked?
[12:49] <nik90> yeah it is, let me try to find a bug
[12:49] <jgdx> nik90, bug 1427566
[12:49] <nik90> there you go :)
[12:50] <jgdx> nik90, good feedback from you in that bug
[12:51] <nik90> jgdx: If you think that the new alarm page should set the default time to be "now + 8hrs", please create a bug report with a clear explanation as to why it should be so and I can take it up with the design team.
[12:51] <nik90> jgdx: Android doesn't do it..so may be there is a good reasoning to just use the current time
[12:52] <jgdx> nik90, that wish implies the presence of a timer, though
[12:52] <robin-hero> nik90: jgdx: I don't like the "current time + 8 hours" idea
[12:53] <robin-hero> which OS doest this in that was?
[12:53] <robin-hero> *eay
[12:53] <robin-hero> *way
[12:53] <jgdx> robin-hero, I thought ios did this, but I don't have one in front of me
[12:53] <nik90> robin-hero: well it is just an idea that we are discussing..if it is a valid use-case then I don't see why we can't use it
[12:55] <robin-hero> nik90: Of course, but this is very weird for me :) I use the alarm for many other things, not just for wakeup :)
[12:56] <nik90> robin-hero: fair enough
[12:59] <jgdx> could be ios merely suggested the last alarm time, or alarm interval
[12:59] <jgdx> which could make more sense for robin-hero and myself
[13:00] <jgdx> s/last/most recently used
[13:02] <alecu> Mirv, pstolowski: hi, I'm catching up with the backlog regarding silo-18, dbus and installations
[13:02] <alecu> Mirv: did you guys found the issue? should I take a look also?
[13:03] <Mirv> alecu: pstolowski: the problem is that with that silo U1 account gets removed upon reboot and/or clicking Install button, although if the account is readded installing apps works for the duration of that boot.
[13:06] <alecu> Mirv: weird. The u1 account should only be removed if the credentials are no longer valid; I find it very strange that it would be removed on installation.
[13:07] <Elleo> nik90: what's your opinion on screenshots for the next podbird release, I'm thinking of maybe making them with the new header in vivid as it looks nicer (the counter argument being that it won't match exactly what the user will see until the vivid upgrade), what're your thoughts?
[13:07] <nik90> Elleo: it does look nicer but it will be inconsistent though..how about we update the scrreenshots when OTA-4 based on vivid lands instead?
[13:08] <Elleo> nik90: could do
[13:08] <nik90> Elleo: the issue is that in the dark theme, the app header is barely distinct from the app content and is a tiny bit confusing
[13:09] <nik90> the header divider needs to be a bit more visible in the dark theme
[13:09] <Mirv> alecu: so the silo changes DBus behavior, and it appears the account probably gets removed when a DBus request fails in some way
[13:10] <Elleo> nik90: yeah, I guess; I'm not espeically fussed about it being a bit faint, as users are familiar with the idea of the header and there's enough cues there to show that it is a header
[13:10] <nik90> Elleo: btw are you creating the click at the moment? We got 100% translations for russian this morning, you will need to import the translations and merge them to trunk manually before uploading click to store.
[13:10] <Elleo> nik90: yeah, I'm going to do a manual import
[13:10] <Elleo> nik90: won't be doing the release until after work though
[13:10] <nik90> ok
[13:11] <nik90> Elleo: regarding the screenshots, its your call. Its just a smart part of the app screenshot which does make it look really modern
[13:11] <Mirv> alecu: maybe it could be more fault tolerant, but of course it's the silo's fault most likely unless the accound handling made wrong assumptions on previous Qt behavior
[13:12] <alecu> Mirv: yes: " it appears the account probably gets removed when a DBus request fails in some way" sounds very likely.
[13:14] <Elleo> nik90: yeah, and I like the fact that it means the "Add New Podcast" page gets its full title, which gets truncated with the old header
[13:14] <Elleo> nik90: but I'm kind of on the fence
[13:25] <tsdgeos> Mirv: so with silo18 the ubuntuone account is randomly lost on reboots but not without silo18?
[13:26] <alecu> Mirv: I'm talking to marcustomlinson, that worked on the integration of the scope frameworks with online accounts, and he tells me that the scopes are using a library provided by online accounts. And that it's likely that this library is using dbus to call online accounts itself
[13:27] <Mirv> tsdgeos: yes
[13:27] <tsdgeos> Mirv: weird
[13:27] <tsdgeos> :D
[13:27] <alecu> mardy: do you know if the online accounts library uses qtdbus to talk to online accounts proper?
[13:28] <Mirv> alecu: thanks, that's another useful piece to know in this puzzle!
[13:28] <alecu> Mirv: is the account lost on reboots or on installation?
[13:29] <mardy> alecu: libsignon-qt (and the QML bindings do), but the account part it an in-process SQLite DB
[13:29] <marcustomlinson> mardy, alecu: it may be an issue in QDBus used from OnlineAccountsClient::Setup() that we use in the shell:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~online-accounts/ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts/trunk/view/head:/client/OnlineAccountsClient/setup.cpp
[13:30] <Mirv> tsdgeos: of course OA could be made more fault tolerant, but it's likely QDBus is simply still broken even though all our other issues with the patch set are gone
[13:32] <Mirv> alecu: on a reboot, but not always. also, the first click of Install on the app after upgrading to the silo removes the account, but not if upgrade is done first and then account is added - app installations then work for the duration of that boot
[13:33] <alecu> "for the duration of that boot" is what makes no sense to me! :-(
[13:35] <Mirv> yeah, it feels weird, but it certainly looks like that. so it's probably that some multi-threaded dbus usage during boot creates the problem, even though at times the removal only happens after that boot, when Install is clicked
[13:36] <alecu> right
[13:40] <popey> ooh! http://people.canonical.com/~alan/screenshots/device-2015-04-23-143817.png
[13:41] <ogra_> popey, you're kidding !
[13:41] <popey> wat?
[13:41] <popey> I only just noticed :)
[13:41] <Silex> popey: thank you! I often pested that it lacked this
[13:41] <robin-hero> popey: Is it in vivid? :)
[13:42] <popey> thats my up to date vivid phone
[13:42] <robin-hero> I think I need to buy another phone just fot testing :D
[13:42] <Silex> damnit, it's not there on the BQ 4.5 yet
[13:42] <popey> yes, please buy more phones for "testing" or whatever
[13:42] <ogra_> soooon
[13:43] <Silex> ah wait, maybe it only works with the Media PLayer app
[13:43] <popey> ya
[13:43]  * Silex tests again
[13:43] <popey> doesn't work with music
[13:43] <Silex> :(
[13:44] <robin-hero> popey: I got one for everyday use :) just I another one for testing :D
[13:44]  * Silex curses at media player
[13:44] <Silex> how does one simply select music to play in it?
[13:44]  * Silex tries file manager
[13:45] <Se7> still not downloading update after many reboot any idea? :(
[13:46]  * Silex curses at Media Player not being able to open mp3 files
[13:46] <Silex> c'mon
[13:50] <mcphail> Hmm - my network status indicator has gone completely and the tab in the indicator bar has been replaced by a cogwheel icon labelled "indicator-network"
[13:51] <jgdx> pete-woods, ^^
[13:52] <jgdx> mcphail, anything new in your /var/crash folder?
[13:53] <nik90> popey, ogra_ : it doesnt seem to work with media-player as well during my testing..perhaps more fixes are in the pipeline
[13:53] <popey> ya
[13:54] <mcphail> jgdx: lots of things :) Nothing from today, though
[13:55] <pete-woods> mcphail: anything interesting in ~/.cache/upstart/indicator-network.log* ?
[13:57] <mcphail> pete-woods: one sec. trying to read/access through terminal app :)
[14:15] <Se7> sorry i don t know what s up my child put and on keyboards
[14:25] <mcphail> pete-woods: quite a bit of "terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::out_of_range'" (sorry for delay in replying - internet issues)
[14:25] <pete-woods> mcphail: are you on RTM or vivid?
[14:26] <mcphail> pete-woods: rtm
[14:26] <pete-woods> mcphail: sounds like we need to push the same fix out to RTM as we have in vivid then
[14:26] <pete-woods> not that I think there's another rtm image coming along
[14:27] <mcphail> pete-woods: i suppose the fix _will_be_ vivid :)
[14:27] <mcphail> pete-woods: do you need more info or shall I just reboot?
[14:30] <pete-woods> mcphail: if you can find an indicator-network crash file that would be useful
[14:30] <pete-woods> just so I can confirm it's the same crash
[14:30] <pete-woods> it doesn't matter if it's not from today
[14:48] <mcphail> pete-woods: sorry - got cut off again. Do you want an email with a crash file from the 17th?
[14:50] <pete-woods> mcphail: that sounds good to me
[14:50] <pete-woods> mcphail<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:53] <OerHeks> pete-woods, please can i pm you?
[14:53] <pete-woods> OerHeks: sure
[15:08] <march> Hi :) Where can I report incomplete translations concerning uubuntu touch? Openening a bugreport on launchpad seems to be the wrong place.
[15:13] <jgdx> march, it's the right place, but it's best if you file it against the package/project in question. Where is the incomplete translation?
[15:25] <march> jgdx, If you choose your favorite contacts a new screen appears displaying the name of the person and some buttons.
[15:26] <march> On my phone it is a mixture of german and english. Should be german only
[15:30] <jgdx> march, okay, could you file against https://bugs.launchpad.net/address-book-app/+filebug ?
[15:43]  * mcphail has just realised the podbird icon is an owl.
[15:44] <nik90> mcphail: not for long
[15:44] <mcphail> nik90: I'd thought it was a close-up of a monkey's face...
[15:46] <mcphail> The belly feathers were teeth...
[15:46]  * mcphail does not have the best eyesight
[15:46] <Elleo> heh
[15:46] <nik90> lol
[16:04] <alecu> Mirv: after further manual testing, I found that logging into U1 from system settings is unreliable as logging from the scope.
[16:05] <alecu> I tap and tap on the "Ubuntu One" entry in system settings and still can't login
[16:05] <alecu> well, after a few taps it worked
[16:05] <alecu> but still, seems to be as broken
[16:06] <Mirv> alecu: if you see #ubuntu-ci-eng, we now added mardy's https://code.launchpad.net/~mardy/ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts/lp1421009/+merge/257267 which seems to help the boot up account disappearance at least (it now always survives boot but disappears when app is tried to be installed, although not every time), but we'd need something similar to some other potentially racy place
[16:06] <Mirv> alecu: so if you apt update + upgrade you'd get that mardy's u-s-s-o-a update from the same PPA
[16:06] <alecu> ah, great.
[16:06] <Mirv> alecu: do you know anything about that what happens / what's called when Install is pressed in the store, where something similar could be applied?
[16:06] <Mirv> sil2100: ^
[16:07] <alecu> Mirv: I suspect unity-scopes-shell, will check with people on my team
[16:08] <alecu> pstolowski: pete-woods: is that right? ^
[16:08] <Mirv> alecu: awesome!
[16:12] <pstolowski> mc
[16:12] <march> I'll do that jgdx
[16:14] <alecu> Mirv: actually, unity-scopes-shell is using libonline-accounts-client1, which is built from ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts too
[16:14] <pstolowski> alecu, Mirv afaict after some grepping in unity-scopes-shell, it depends on libonline-accounts-client1-dev (ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts) and doesn't do anything like in that diff directly
[16:14] <pstolowski> alecu, ah, at the same time ;)
[16:14] <sil2100> hmmm
[16:15] <alecu> pstolowski: right, so I would suspect mardy's patch ought to fix that too
[16:15] <pstolowski> yeah
[16:18] <sil2100> pstolowski, alecu, Mirv: that's not good then, I'm in overall worried that the raciness can cause accounts to go missing
[16:18] <alecu> sil2100: I wonder what happens with accounts other than the U1 account as used in the click scope.
[16:19] <alecu> I've been trying to install some other scope that uses online accounts, but been hitting the bug.
[16:19] <alecu> (other scopes that use online accounts are, eg: vimeo, soundcloud, instagram scopes)
[16:22] <sil2100> I'm upgrading to vivid as well
[16:36] <taiebot> nik90: podbird does not start on my mako 15.04 devel-proposed r183
[16:36] <popey> taiebot: known
[16:36] <popey> fixed in trunk i believe
[16:37] <taiebot> popey and the music stalling as well? on r183
[16:38] <Elleo> taiebot: yeah, there's a bug in the UITK, but we've got a workaround for it in 0.6 which we'll be releasing very soon
[16:38] <taiebot> elleo: is it for podbird or music app?
[16:38] <Elleo> taiebot: podbird, no idea about the music app side of things
[16:47] <Dragonkeeper> if someone calls  and you swipe the call notification away the phone vibrates and there is no way to answer it , opening the phone app lets you call but doesnt say theres a imcoming call still, vibrating goes away when the other person hangs up
[16:54] <nik90> taiebot: music app opens fine for me on r183 though
[16:54] <taiebot> It does open but try to play two songs.
[16:55] <nik90> taiebot: I quickly seeked through 3-4 songs and it continues playing..what do you observe on your end?
[16:56] <taiebot> nik90: was walking back home with headphones and after finishing the song. when starting the next one it starts to stutter and finally stops.
[16:58] <nik90> taiebot: ah ok...I will play an entire playlist and see if I can reproduce it
[16:59] <taiebot> nik90 just starting an album here to see if i can always reproduce..
[17:03] <taiebot> nik90 its pretty weird i am not playing the music it is supposed to play=-O
[17:03] <nik90> eh
[17:03] <taiebot> It says Jessie J Domino on the now playing while he plays some spanish guitar music.
[17:05] <nik90> ok there's something really weird going on then
[18:52] <isleofmandan> Can anyone point me to a guide for upgrading my phone to 15.04 ?
[18:57] <ogra_> isleofmandan, are you ready for instabilities and bugs ? ... you can switch the channel to devel-proposed with th system-image-cli command ... but i would wait til 15.04 is ready
[18:58] <ogra_> (there is a --switch option for system-image-cli)
[18:58] <ogra_> (see --help)
[18:59] <davmor2> ogra_: you don't need to minuses and you are missing a k, it's "But seek help"
[18:59] <ogra_> lol
[19:00] <isleofmandan> Thanks. I thought 15.04 was already released. My laptop is currently upgrading and I thought phone and desktop were same codebase?
[19:00] <davmor2> isleofmandan: not yet we are getting there
[19:00] <ogra_> phone is rolling and gets special QA treatment
[19:01] <ogra_> the normal phone OTA mchanism will just switch you over automatically, you wont notice :)
[19:01] <isleofmandan> So it will just do it by magic when it's ready
[19:01] <ogra_> yeah :
[19:01] <isleofmandan> cool. Thanms
[19:01] <ogra_> :)
[19:01] <isleofmandan> thanks
[19:01] <ogra_> in about 4-6 weeks i'd say ... will still take a while
[19:02] <isleofmandan> I can't type on it. :p
[19:03] <isleofmandan> OK thanks. We have a local release party on Saturday and some folks wanted me to show my phone. First question I'll get is why is it only on 14.10 :)
[19:04] <davmor2> isleofmandan: it isn't, it's on 14.09 rtm which is another thing all together
[19:06] <isleofmandan> so confusing. It says 14.10 on the screen. :)
[19:09] <davmor2> isleofmandan: that's just to confuse people ;)
[19:12] <isleofmandan> anyway, thanks for the help. I'll get back to nursing laptop through its uograde from 14.10... /boot appears to be too full but I have seen that issue before so know what to do. It's the phone stuff that is all new and weird to me!
[19:12] <isleofmandan> have a good evening
[19:22] <d3z_> I could use a little help in understanding the difference between scopes and apps on Ubuntu Phone.  As I understand it, a scope is something like a group or category of information, where that scope can take in data from an assortment of sources.  an app is a single program, which just does it's own thing.  is that a correct assessment?
[19:23] <ogra_> yeah
[19:24] <cwayne> d3z_, that's a pretty good top-level view yep :)
[19:24] <cwayne> d3z_, the main focus of scopes is content rather than functionality
[19:25] <d3z_> cool, thanks cwayne and ogra_
[19:25] <d3z_> I'm considering making a small app (i assume that's the correct approach here) which will make some requests to a web service and display data in a basic list.  I'll also need to save some basic user preferences.  given the minimal requirements, it seems like a good fit to do in html5 rather than qml.  is that reasonable?
[19:26] <cwayne> what kind of data?
[19:27] <d3z_> for now it's just an excuse to try things out, but it'll tasks (as in todo list entries)
[19:28] <d3z_> I imagine a user being able to set a few preferences in the app, but otherwise it's just requesting data via https and showing that data as text on a list
[19:47] <taiebot> \o/ podbird update :)
[19:51] <dobey> d3z_: an html5 app would be fine for that. it would fit into the realm of scopes as well, if it's just displaying data and not really entering any.
[20:54] <mariogrip> Updating my desktop to vivid now! \o/


[14:07] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer:  so pi4?
[14:36] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I have no idea what's going on, just got up. pi4?
[14:37] <OvenWerks> in response to your comment yesterday  about riscv64
[14:37] <OvenWerks> or is that different from arm?
[14:38] <Eickmeyer> That's different from arm.
[14:39] <OvenWerks>  :P
[14:41] <Eickmeyer> It's some newfangled new architecture that's recently been enabled, and germinate doesn't yet exist for it, hence the meta failure.
[14:42] <OvenWerks> I have not gotten any email about though so maybe I am not on that list
[14:43] <Eickmeyer> Possibly.
 rasberrypi?
 @eixkemeyer ovenwerks its probably rasberrypi4?
 @azbulutlu Rasberry Pis use arm64 afaik. Not sure what risc is. I just know that Launchpad has enabled it, but not for anything to be released for it. I think plenty of things are still building for it which is why our FTBFS errors are due to packages not being available in those architectures yet.


[03:36] <sethj> Is the /finding-help/ask-ubuntu page not part of the ubuntu-community-website repo or can I just not find it
[03:36] <sethj> ?
[07:30] <dholbach> good morning
[08:58] <jose> hey dholbach! you and dpm having that call in 30mins?
[08:58] <dpm> hey jose, yes we are
[08:58] <dpm> want to join us?
[08:59] <jose> for something really quick, yeah
[08:59] <jose> already 4am here and I'm a bit tired, but it's good
[09:01] <dpm> jose, we can have another call at another time with you, that's no problem. If it's 4 a.m., I think you should rather get some rest!
[09:01] <jose> nah, I'm good
[09:01] <jose> advantages of being on holiday :P
[09:02] <dholbach> I'll take the dog for a walk and brb
[09:02] <jose> enjoy!
[09:30] <dholbach> jose, dpm: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/app-dev-school
[09:31] <jose> dholbach: "you're not allowed to join this video call"
[09:31] <dholbach> eh?!
[09:31] <dholbach> damni
[09:31] <dholbach> damnit
[09:31] <jose> can I haz invite plz?
[09:32] <dholbach> jose, which email?
[09:32] <jose><EMAIL_ADDRESS>should work if it's not on-air
[09:32] <dholbach> ok
[09:32] <dholbach> sent
[09:32] <jose> thanks
[09:33] <dpm> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-1403-appdev-schools
[16:50] <dpm> ok, calling it a day for today, see you all tomorrow!
[17:32] <dholbach> calling it a day as well - see you around!


[20:49] <Hail_Satan> Hello, what is the procedure to find a phone compatible with a carrier?
[22:48] <ax0l> Hail_Satan, https://willmyphonework.net/
[22:50] <Hail_Satan> is there a version of that for ubuntu or other linux distributions?
[22:50] <Hail_Satan> I want to solve for "device" not brute force it


[00:32] <eclectic_bill> Eickmeyer:  I'm shocked at that news! brand new ssd, says 6gb/sec! will try to find out if they have faster ones and if I can exchange it.
[00:55] <eclectic_bill> sudo hdparm -tT /dev/sda:
[00:56] <eclectic_bill> Timing cached reads::: 13510 mb in 1.99 seconds = 6775.62 MB/sec
[00:57] <eclectic_bill> Timing buffered disk reads :1528 MB in 3.00 seconds = 508.83 MB/sec
[01:04] <eclectic_bill> waaaa! I just wanna learn to record music on Linux!!!
[03:39] <Eickmeyer> eclectic_bill: The bottleneck is likely not the SSD itself, but your motherboard. It likely just can't handle the I/O.
[07:33] <corrinado[m]> <Eickmeyer "eclectic_bill: The bottleneck is"> Exactly
[10:52] <eclectic_bill> I got a free laptop from work and got it all set up and thought I can finally record music after decades of computer & music being separate--probably can't afford a more powerful laptop...maybe I just see if other programs than ardour can work for me.
[10:56] <eclectic_bill> audaciy could probably handle a lot of my initial goals, and there must be other programs that could do the job..qtractor?
[10:59] <eclectic_bill> thato would not quite make those hardware demands. weird, because the amount of data I was dealing with at failure was tiny, and I'd already made a successful small 4-track recording in the morning, and the comp seems plenty powerful for everything else. Thanks for the insight!
[11:01] <eclectic_bill> actually, there was no real amount of data at the point of failure. It recorded in the morning, and refused to record in the afternoon.
[13:58] <jaymz168> Hello all! Can anyone help with patching, building and packaging a kernel on Ubuntu?  I've got an audio interface that misbehaves and a driver was developed on linuxmusicians which I managed to get working on Manjaro following their build toolchain.  But what I'd really like to do is run Ubuntu Studio, patch a 5.8.6 kernel with my driver and build
[13:58] <jaymz168> using the proper toolchain with the proper Ubuntu Studio pataches.
[13:58] <jaymz168> Can anyone point me in the right direction?
[13:59] <jaymz168> And 5.8.x AFAIK is required due to the added support for USB implicit feedback
[14:13] <OvenWerks> eclectic_bill: That does sound odd. Could it be something else was happening (SW update) in the background?
[14:13] <OvenWerks> eclectic_bill: I find doing a swapoff then swapon then record sometimes helps
[14:15] <OvenWerks> I have an older laptop using ubuntustudio 18.04 (it is 32bit so 20.04 won't work) and have done recording on it with no problems. I think it only has 2gb of ram
[14:15] <OvenWerks> more than 10 years old.
[14:16]  * OvenWerks is miffed that there is no longer 32 bit support and is looking at installing debian on that device at least.
[14:21] <OvenWerks> jaymz168: have you looked at the 20.10 kernel? It is 5.8. I do not know if it already includes the module you need or if you would have to add it still.
[14:21] <OvenWerks> but that would be the best starting point.
[14:23] <OvenWerks> jaymz168: also, while not really supported, there are a few other kernals around too that can offer goof performance and at least in my testing, have worked fine with studio.
[14:38] <OvenWerks> jaymz168: anyway, It has been some time since I have built kernels. I would guess start with the kernal source package and go from there.
[14:40] <jaymz168> OvenWerks: It won't have the patch, it's not upstream and I'm not sure they're trying to push it yet.  It was developed for a specific interface but it turns it out it works for an entire family of related hardware so I think more testing  is in order.
[14:40] <jaymz168> OvenWerks: Thanks for lead on 20.10, I'll have a look and see if it's easier to just run unstable and patch that.
[14:41] <OvenWerks> jaymz168: n0o it wouldn't have the patch but if you start from the source package it should be able to be patched and built.
[14:41] <jaymz168> OvenWerks: Thanks!
[14:41] <OvenWerks> jaymz168: also I have found that most often it does not matter which kernel one uses
[14:42] <OvenWerks> That is using a 20.10 kernel with 20.04 will likely work with no problems
[14:43] <jaymz168> OvenWerks: That's what I was thinking too.
[14:44] <OvenWerks> I am sure we will get told that any such setup is "Not Supported"
[14:46] <OvenWerks> on the other hand, 20.10 is in reasonable good shape.


[00:54] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Builds: Lubuntu Desktop amd64 [Focal 20.04.1] has been updated (20200728)
[18:54] <tomreyn> hi there. FWIW, some weeks ago, i sent an email to mario b., asking whether i could help mediate around the domain names / websites. i sent it to two email addresses i found, but can't be certain he still monitors them. i receioved no NDN, though. also no reply. i sent a reminder, but got not response there either.
 Interesting
[18:55] <kc2bez> Thanks for the information tomreyn
[18:56] <tomreyn> yw, i just thought it could be worth a try. the situation is not good from a user perspective, which i cared about most of all. i imagine it must be annoying for you as well. but this was not my primary driving force, i must admit.
[18:57] <kc2bez> That sounds fair and makes sense to me.


[18:49] <larsks> What if...what if cloud-init located data sources and config modules through something like stevedore
[18:49] <larsks> ?
[18:49] <larsks> Or is that just crazy talk?
[19:37] <smoser> larsks, well, that is the plan.
[19:37] <smoser> something like that.
[19:37] <larsks> Oh, awesome. So not crazy talk :)
[19:37] <smoser> the explicit config provides a copule things though:
[19:37] <smoser> a.) a order (hint, ec2 sucks cauase it has to poll and timeout)
[19:38] <smoser> b.) ability to turn off bad behaving ones easily
[19:38] <larsks> Well, I can see keeping the explicit config and still locating modules via the plugin mechanism.
[19:38] <smoser> you could accomplish both with loading and osme mechanism, but whats there is easy.
[19:38] <larsks> That is, a module is only used if (it is discovered) and (it is enabled explicilty)
[19:38] <smoser> well, even that is a pain.
[19:39] <smoser> because peo;le want to just drop their datasource in and not have to modify a config (that woul dnot explicitly list their datasource)
[19:39] <larsks> Hmmm.
[19:40] <larsks> Seems like you need the explicit config for (a) and (b).  Maybe those people are just picky :).