[09:51] <imbrandon> m_3: its ready for the charm store and been reviewed :)
[09:51] <imbrandon> i have it manually mirror both places atm, and then i setup a juju-drupal project so it would pull every few minutes, but it pulls to a diffrent branch
[09:52] <imbrandon> soo
[13:04] <yolanda> hi, good afternoon
[13:05] <yolanda> one question, how can i debug a db-relation-joined hook? it doesn't give any error, but the code in the hook doesn't seem to be executing
[13:14] <sc-rm> Yolanda: Which charm are you trying to use?
[13:14] <yolanda> sc-rm, i'm building a new one
[13:14] <yolanda> i'm adding a relationship to postgresql
[13:14] <yolanda> and i have a hook db-relation-joined
[13:15] <sc-rm> yolanda: Which language do you code your charm im?
[13:15] <yolanda> sc-rm, its' just bash
[13:16] <sc-rm> youlanda: okay, then I would just do some echo in the places I suspect to not get hit
[13:17] <yolanda> sc-rm, but how can i reach to that relationship in debug?
[13:17] <sc-rm> youlanda: I guess you do something like juju add-relation postgresql you-charm?
[13:18] <yolanda> sc-rm, hes, juju add-relation openerp postgresql:db
[13:18] <yolanda> the relationship seems to be creating, doesn't give any error, but there is some code to change a config file and isn't triggered
[13:19] <imbrandon> yolanda: anything in juju debug-log
[13:20] <yolanda> juju add-relation openerp postgresql:db -e local
[13:20] <yolanda> 2012-04-10 15:20:06,162 INFO Added pgsql relation to all service units.
[13:20] <yolanda> 2012-04-10 15:20:06,163 INFO 'add_relation' command finished successfully
[13:20] <yolanda> nothing in logs
[13:20] <imbrandon> fun
[13:20] <sc-rm> youlanda: have you looked at https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/write-charm.html ?
[13:21] <imbrandon> sc-rm: i'm fairly sure this is about yolanda's what the 3rd or 4th one :)
[13:21] <yolanda> i've read it
[13:21] <yolanda> i have successfully create the install, start and stop
[13:22] <yolanda> but the db-relation-joined gives me problems
[13:22]  * SpamapS stretches and yawns
[13:22] <imbrandon> moins SpamapS
[13:22] <SpamapS> yolanda: have you used 'juju debug-hooks' yet ?
[13:22] <SpamapS> yolanda: I think its what you're looking for
[13:23] <yolanda> SpamapS, yes, i used it, but how can i retry a relationship? i never get into the db-relation-joined hook
[13:23] <yolanda> i remove the relationship, i add it again, but i'm not placed into the hook
[13:23] <SpamapS> yolanda: if the state is just 'up', you need to remove/add it again. If it is in error, you can use 'juju resolved --retry unit/X db'
[13:24] <SpamapS> yolanda: are you sure you're not still *in* the hook?
[13:24] <yolanda> the status of the relationship is that:
[13:24] <yolanda>     relations:
[13:24] <yolanda>       db:
[13:24] <yolanda>       - openerp
[13:24] <yolanda> and that for openerp:
[13:24] <yolanda>     relations:
[13:24] <yolanda>       db:
[13:24] <yolanda>       - postgresql
[13:24] <yolanda> is that ok?=
[13:25] <SpamapS> yolanda: can you install 'pastebinit' and just pipe the whole output of 'juju status' to it
[13:25] <SpamapS> ?
[13:25] <SpamapS> bcsaller1: good morning?
[13:25] <yolanda>  ok
[13:27] <yolanda> http://paste.ubuntu.com/923267/
[13:29] <SpamapS> yolanda: thanks reading
[13:30] <yolanda> thx
[13:30] <SpamapS> yolanda: so yeah I would expect remove/add to throw you back into db-relation-*
[13:30] <SpamapS> yolanda: perhaps you need to exit debug-hooks and go back in ?
[13:30] <yolanda> SpamapsS, so i just do a debug-hooks openerp/0
[13:31] <yolanda> and then remove add relation?
[13:32] <yolanda> it doesn't place me in the hook, i just remain in the initial screen
[13:33] <SpamapS> yolanda: it should definitely place you almost immediately in the joined hook
[13:33] <yolanda> doesn't do it :(
[13:33] <SpamapS> yolanda: can you run debug-log in another window and confirm that joined is being executed?
[13:34] <yolanda> nothing in juju debug-log
[13:37] <yolanda> SpamapS, so something is wrong with my juju charm? seems that nothing is triggered
[13:38] <SpamapS> yolanda: can you pastebin metadata.yaml ?
[13:40] <yolanda> sure
[13:41] <yolanda> http://paste.ubuntu.com/923287/
[13:42] <SpamapS> yolanda: I suspect there is something more sinister going on. Can you try 'juju resolved --retry openerp/0 db'
[13:42] <SpamapS> perhaps the new status output is not as obvious about errors
[13:42] <yolanda> The relation 'db' has no unit state for 'openerp/0'
[13:42] <yolanda> 2012-04-10 15:42:32,817 ERROR The relation 'db' has no unit state for 'openerp/0'
[13:44] <SpamapS> yolanda: is this right after you added it?
[13:44] <SpamapS> yolanda: can you run 'dpkg -l juju' on your machine, and on openerp/0 ? are they the same version?
[13:45] <yolanda> SpamapS, yes, just after adding it
[13:45] <yolanda> let me check the versions
[13:45] <yolanda> mm, not same version
[13:45] <yolanda> local is bzr504
[13:45] <yolanda> openerp/0 is bzr518
[13:46] <yolanda> but i'm using local containers in juju, why are they different?
[13:50] <yolanda> i'm using ppa as juju-origin, perhaps i need to use repo?
[13:50] <SpamapS> yolanda: well technically there should be no incompatibility between those versions
[13:51] <SpamapS> but in reality, I've seen a lot of subtle breakage with stuff like this
[13:51] <SpamapS> yolanda: just upgrade your local machine. 518 just landed yesterday.
[13:51] <SpamapS> yolanda: if that fixes it.. please let me know. We really have to stop breaking things in backward incompatible ways.
[13:52] <yolanda> let me see
[13:53] <yolanda> do i have to regenerate all the environment?
[13:59] <SpamapS> yolanda: hopefully no
[13:59] <SpamapS> yolanda: you might want to destroy the existing services
[13:59] <SpamapS> yolanda: but I'd try just with a new client binary
[14:00] <yolanda> SpamapS, it gave some error, i'm destroying environment and creating new
[14:03] <SpamapS> yolanda: could you pastebin the error?
[14:03] <SpamapS> Thats actually quite critical since we plan to land one more version in precise .. I think
[14:03] <yolanda> too late...
[14:03] <yolanda> i just destroyed it
[14:03] <yolanda> i'm running it again, let me check if the error shows now
[14:07] <marcoceppi> I wonder would a "good" feature be to bootstrap a remote environment locally? So in the environments.yaml EC2 stanza say "local-bootstrap: true". Juju would spin up an LXC container instead of doing so in the intended cloud
[14:08] <marcoceppi> I know you loose portability, but you could save money that way
[14:11] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: you can save money with 'placement: local'
[14:12] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: just remember to remove it after the first deploy. ;)
[14:12] <marcoceppi> SpamapS: that deploys to the bootstrap, correct?
[14:13] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: though I have thought a lot about how to do de-centralized juju.. and one way I was wondering about was to run the zookeeper locally and have juju agents just connect to <IP_ADDRESS>:xxxx and have juju clients ssh in and "wake up" the agents with the port forwarded. Feels very hacky.
[14:13] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: correct
[14:13] <_mup_> juju/ns-from-env r479 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:13] <_mup_> merge trunk
[14:14] <marcoceppi> SpamapS: Right, I've been pondering different de-centralized ways to manage juju this morning, at least at a high level, and I couldn't really fathom another way than what's running now
[14:14] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: I think ultimately zookeeper should be ditched for a map of the nodes kept somewhere (S3 for instance).. and agents should just be responsible for their own data, and use 0mq to talk to eachother and feed their status back to object storage per-unit. I'm not convinced anymore that zookeeper is needed, though it *does* make things simpler.
[14:16] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: It makes me nervous how much vital information is stored in ZK.
[14:17] <SpamapS> anyway, time to wake up the family
[14:17] <marcoceppi> SpamapS: so, an alternative would be to just maintain a map in the bucket then all the relation based data that may or may not be sensative is on each node within the juju agent?
[14:17] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: right
[14:18] <marcoceppi> interesting
[14:19] <SpamapS> basically juju client would just much with a tree of intent (much like it does now) but instead of having ZK there with all of the other resulting data (like relation-set produced data), the agents would just keep that to themselves and message it back and forth.
[14:19] <SpamapS> s/much/muck/
[14:20] <SpamapS> that way there's no one server that you compromise to pwn the entire environment.
[14:20]  * SpamapS goes upstairs to start shaking his toddler awake
[14:42] <marcoceppi> Is there any way to tell which unit is the "head" in a peer relation?
[14:43] <hazmat> smoser, thanks for the clue yesterday re cloud-init, it appears that rsyslog fails to start in the lxc cloud-image
[14:43] <hazmat> wonders what the heck /usr/bin/whoopsie is
[14:44] <SpamapS> hazmat: just don't step on it
[14:49] <jcastro> hey SpamapS
[14:49] <jcastro> let's talk store for precise now that contest is nearly done
[14:53] <SpamapS> yeah I started working on testing all the charms last week
[14:55] <jcastro> SpamapS: anything sticking out as a problem? ie. do you think this will be a big deal or just flipping the switch?
[14:58] <SpamapS> jcastro: no, initially most work fine. :)
[14:59] <SpamapS> jcastro: we should have a period where we invite ~charmers to fix them all, and I need to ask the launchpad guys what will happen when there is already a branch present.. but i think we'll have this wrapped up by next week.
[14:59] <jcastro> ok
[15:04] <smoser> hazmat, why no syslog ?
[15:04] <smoser> do you know ?
[15:05] <smoser> as i might have been about to ask SpamapS on a similar question
[15:05] <smoser> oh.
[15:05] <smoser> lxc
[15:05] <hazmat> smoser, haven't really debugged it yet.. it fails to start
[15:05] <smoser> /dev/log
[15:05] <hazmat> smoser, yup
[15:05] <hazmat> probably
[15:05] <smoser> lxc container does not probably have access to that device node
[15:05] <smoser> does that make sense to you? would that be able to kick you in the right direction to fix it ?
[15:05] <smoser> or you want more direction
[15:06] <smoser> s/fix/test change/
[15:06] <hazmat> smoser, doesn't exist in the container
[15:06] <smoser> right. because it can't get created
[15:06] <smoser> because lxc wont let it.
[15:06] <smoser> er... app armour or what not.
[15:07] <avoine> hazmat have you found a bug about rsyslog on lxc?
[15:08] <avoine> I saw that because it prevent cloud-setup to be fire
[15:08] <hazmat> avoine, well it doesn't start in particular on the cloud-image which causes issues for cloud-init's config which juju relies on.
[15:09] <hazmat> smoser, at this point i'm just going to punt till after precise, it was a big change to even try at this point, even though the code delta is small
[15:09] <hazmat> smoser, as far as hints.. though i'm all ears
[15:10] <smoser> oh. wait... maybe we can fix this via cloud-init data.
[15:10] <smoser> wait.
[15:10] <smoser> no
[15:10] <smoser> rsyslog is going to use /dev/log
[15:10] <smoser> we need access to that in the container
[15:11] <hazmat> smoser, looks like just killing the app armor profile for rsyslog gets it to start
[15:11] <hazmat> and then cloud-init config is happy
[15:11] <smoser> hm..
[15:11] <smoser> iwould have thought youneeded access specifically to mknod from one of the lxc configs.
[15:11] <smoser> but... ok.
[15:12] <smoser> my suspicion is that /dev/log is not containerized
[15:12] <smoser> hallyn or stgraber can probably provide insight on what to do here.
[15:13] <hazmat> smoser, not sure, i don't see the messages from the container in the host..
[15:13] <smoser> oh. wait.
[15:13] <smoser> /dev/log is just a socket.
[15:13] <smoser> and rsyslog sets it up
[15:14] <smoser> so, yeah, containerized.
[15:14] <smoser> i was thinig it was a dev node.
[15:16] <hazmat> smoser, so its just the app aromor pollicy
[15:16] <hazmat> oh.. double typo, extra points
[15:20] <bac> when i try to use 'juju bootstrap' with --constraints specifying more than one constraint i get errors:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/923438/
[15:21] <bac> i'm following the example shown at https://juju.ubuntu.com/DeprecatedEnvironmentSettings
[15:29] <avoine> hazmat: smoser: could you tell me if you fill a bug about the rsyslog issue? I would like to follow it.
[15:29] <smoser> hazmat, ^ can you file one? open it against lxc.
[15:29] <smoser> i'd do it, but you ahve more context.
[15:31] <hazmat> smoser, avoine sure
[15:31] <avoine> thank you
[15:56] <hazmat> avoine, smoser its bug 978147
[15:56] <_mup_> Bug #978147: rsyslogd fails to start in cloud template  <lxc (Ubuntu):Confirmed> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/978147 >
[15:56] <avoine> ok thanks again
[16:21] <imbrandon> SpamapS: man , dunno if your a rock fan or not , but I just bought the new Halestorm album, if you are even a little, dont hesiate get it now! dude most sophmore albums suck, or at least dont stack up to the first, this one blows the first out of the water
[16:22] <SpamapS> imbrandon: I'm disconnected from all new music unfortunately. I still just rock out to Pantera's Vulgar Display of Power when I need something with kick
[16:23] <imbrandon> yea definaltly along the same lines, dude i broke my nose at that tour
[16:23] <imbrandon> on*
[16:23] <imbrandon> in the moshpit
[16:23] <SpamapS> haha
[16:23] <SpamapS> Its my hockey music
[16:23] <imbrandon> :)
[16:23] <SpamapS> ONETWOTHREEFOUR!!!
[16:23] <imbrandon> hells yea there is some reason i knew i liked you hahahaha j/k
[16:24] <SpamapS> Honestly lately I just listen to Billy Joel. I need to chill more than I need to get amped up.
[16:24] <imbrandon> :)
[16:25] <imbrandon> they got a little chill on the album, like "heres to us" more like an 80's powerbalid
[16:25] <imbrandon> lemme see if i can find it on amazon, i think they let you preview it
[16:27] <imbrandon> http://www.amazon.com/Heres-To-Us-Explicit/dp/B0070R94SK
[16:27] <imbrandon> yea there is a preview
[16:27] <imbrandon> its the slower side of the album
[16:28] <imbrandon> this is the one that made me buy the album instantly http://www.amazon.com/American-Boys/dp/B007ONQC4Y
[16:30] <imbrandon> and of course i have the first album too and seen em in concert 2 times now at Rockfest KC, bigest one day music fest in america ( 55k people, one day, 12 hours, 2 stages, hell yea )
[16:36] <marcoceppi> err, I think you guys broke compatibility between juju versions 0.5+bzr504-1juju4~oneiric1 and 0.5+bzr518-1juju5~oneiric1
[16:37] <marcoceppi> In this case, should I just run a apt-get upgrade on the bootstrap? juju status is giving a weird error ATM and I think it's because the juju versions mismatch
[16:39] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: certainly worth a try. Can you maybe document the errors so we can try to avoid such madness in the future?
[16:39]  * SpamapS really really wants to implementat version stability
[16:41] <marcoceppi> SpamapS: I understand I'm in the ppa version, so I expect some breakage. What would be best for you guys?
[16:41] <marcoceppi> as far as documenting errors and giving enough details
[16:42] <_mup_> juju/must-specify-relation-name r516 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:42] <_mup_> Client side check
[16:44] <m_3> SpamapS: hey... so blacklisting charms from testing
[16:44] <m_3> I blacklist the openstack ones because they're already tested elsewhere
[16:45] <m_3> but take buildbot-slave for example...
[16:45] <m_3> it requires config to even install
[16:46] <marcoceppi> m_3: should charms like that include a default.yaml for config then?
[16:46] <m_3> I can either blacklist such things or bump them back to the authors and require them to have enough default config to at least "start"
[16:47] <m_3> I'm tempted to bump them back, but just wanted peeps opinions on that... so we're requiring all charms to at least start when we're reviewing
[16:47] <m_3> marcoceppi: yeah, we haven't been too strict with it though
[16:48] <m_3> marcoceppi: really it's enough default values in the config.yaml... not a default.yaml to pass
[16:48] <m_3> that's more work for the testing framework
[16:48] <marcoceppi> m_3: I think it's a good idea to have enough defaults in config.yaml then
[16:48] <m_3> yup
[16:48] <m_3> it's strange for some charms though... buildbot-slave is a perfect example
[16:49] <m_3> it's a general tool... defaults don't make sense really, they'd be put there _just_ for our testing purposes
[16:49] <m_3> I'm cool with that tho
[16:50] <marcoceppi> SpamapS: http://paste.ubuntu.com/923559/
[16:52] <marcoceppi> SpamapS: so upgrading the bootstrap didn't work, I guess I'm just going to have to destroy/re-bootstrap?
[16:55]  * marcoceppi wonders how to best upgrade the omg env without downtime
[16:55] <m_3> marcoceppi: dang, we've got to stop breaking the api between the cli and existing bootstrapped environments
[16:55] <m_3> it's almost like you've gotta balance across two environments
[16:55] <marcoceppi> m_3: I have a question, it might be easy to hold the package on my local machine, but doesn't each deployment/add unit install the current juju package?
[16:56] <marcoceppi> So holding the package on my machine wouldn't really save me in the future from the units being out of sync with each other
[16:56] <m_3> I've never gotten a variation of that to work... always ended up having to destroy/reboostrap
[16:57] <m_3> marcoceppi: are you using origin: ppa?
[16:57] <m_3> or distro?
[16:58] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: right, the only way to make it truly repeatable is to stick juju in a bzr branch
[16:58] <m_3> well, even that's been changing
[16:58] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: we *must* change that
[16:58] <m_3> right... gotta freeze juju
[16:58] <SpamapS> I made a proposal for that
[16:58] <SpamapS> but its seen basically no response
[16:58] <marcoceppi> m_3: ppa ATM
[16:58] <SpamapS> other tham +1's from hazmat here on IRC :)
[16:59] <marcoceppi> with distro, will I be able to do placement: local and in subsequent upgrades of the distro what's to say it won't break the current deployment like the PPA did?
[16:59] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: do you still have the affected environment?
[16:59] <marcoceppi> SpamapS: yes
[16:59] <marcoceppi> it's the omgubuntu env
[16:59] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: can you do 'juju -v status' ?
[16:59] <SpamapS> oh
[16:59] <SpamapS> awesome!

[17:00] <imbrandon> marcoceppi: deploy on new ones and swap the ip is the only other option, but use the elastic ip
[17:00] <imbrandon> for no downtime
[17:00] <marcoceppi> SpamapS: it's okay, I can create a new env on the ohso AWS, bootstrap, deploy, add-relation, then move the elastic ip
[17:00] <marcoceppi> imbrandon: yeah, that's the plan ATM
[17:00] <SpamapS> I think its time for a stable PPA
[17:00] <SpamapS> Been thinking about it for a long time
[17:00] <marcoceppi> SpamapS: <3
[17:00] <imbrandon> :)
[17:00] <SpamapS> with a ridiculous number of tests before upload
[17:01] <marcoceppi> SpamapS: http://paste.ubuntu.com/923597/
[17:01] <SpamapS> and one of them will need to be "works with the last version"
[17:01] <m_3> marcoceppi: might be worth really balancing (dns) between the two different environments... instead of just a manual failover
[17:01] <SpamapS> yeah
[17:01] <m_3> depends on the data
[17:01] <imbrandon> SpamapS: can we add works on osx too ? /me ducks
[17:01] <marcoceppi> m_3 ?
[17:02] <SpamapS> looks like zookeeper was broken without bumping the version number
[17:02] <SpamapS> imbrandon: don't duck, stand tall.. and donate a mini? ;)
[17:02] <imbrandon> i actually probably could
[17:02] <imbrandon> i got an extra
[17:02] <m_3> whoohoo!
[17:03] <imbrandon> its an older one, but it will run 10.7 easy nuff ( intel core 2 duo )
[17:03] <imbrandon> marcoceppi: m_3 i think that would require dood to be using route 53 dns
[17:04] <SpamapS> imbrandon: ideally we'd run a VM of Lion and Mountain Lion
[17:04] <m_3> marcoceppi: two different juju envs... A and B... name balances across elastic ips in both envs.  Then you can make changes to one at a time and pull it out of rotation upon failure
[17:04] <m_3> it's more $$ tho
[17:04] <imbrandon> SpamapS: oh thats easy, got any actual vmware products running, osx will legitly load in those
[17:04] <imbrandon> from 10.7 on
[17:05] <marcoceppi> m_3: then it's probably a no :) We're looking in to placement: local for mysql+bootstrap now to shave off another small
[17:05] <m_3> right
[17:05] <marcoceppi> plus, not sure how the db sync would work
[17:05] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: replication :)
[17:06] <imbrandon> yea or rds
[17:06] <SpamapS> rds would be overkill for their use wouldn't it?
[17:06] <marcoceppi> now sure how to configure that in the existing charm infrastructure since bootstraps can't talk to each other (yet)
[17:06] <imbrandon> yup
[17:06] <imbrandon> awy overkill
[17:06] <imbrandon> way*
[17:07] <jcastro> SpamapS: dumb question. I am on precise, and using all "ootb" parts, like distro not ppa, etc. Since I can't deploy "juju deploy subway" since the precise store isn't open, should "juju deploy cs:oneiric/subway" work?
[17:07] <m_3> marcoceppi: no, the envs wwould be totally isolated
[17:07]  * imbrandon really needs to fingure out how to bootstrap into hp cloud then i can test all kinda finky configs
[17:07] <m_3> marcoceppi: oh wait, you're right... replication
[17:08] <m_3> we'd have to make it a config parameter... we want the environments as isolated as possible to provide availability
[17:09] <m_3> negronjl's done some stuff with this... it was mongo, not mysql replication, but something similar could be done for mysql
[17:09] <imbrandon> SpamapS: but yea the mini dshould be able to handle that no problem, it will just be choked on ram, i thnk 4gb is the max for that generation
[17:10] <imbrandon> SpamapS: but even today vmware has a special clause in their products with apple and can run osx, its how the big hosting companies get away with osx vps's
[17:11] <imbrandon> i know fusion, esx , vsphere and workstation all work, not sure a bout plain old player
[17:11] <negronjl> marcoceppi, m_3:  The db sync would have to be a completely different approach ...  they're diff. monsters
[17:12] <marcoceppi> This is all hypothetically not going to happen for the omgubuntu install, since it's more $$, btw
[17:12] <m_3> negronjl: 1-way, right... but the basic idea of adding the replica's ip addr as a config param to the master...
[17:13] <m_3> marcoceppi: understood... sorry, just brainfarting out-loud
[17:13] <negronjl> m_3: yeah ... that principle could work
[17:13] <m_3> well sorta-outlound :)
[17:13] <imbrandon> heh
[17:13] <marcoceppi> Feel free to keep farting, I just didn't want anyone to get too serious about ZOMG LETS DO THIS
[17:19] <imbrandon> wow Kubuntu was "picked-up" i think that might be bigger news than the post leads on
[17:19] <SpamapS> jcastro: you could just set default-series: oneiric too
[17:20] <jcastro> SpamapS: yeah I was just wondering if I should just stick to all oneiric
[17:20] <jcastro> but I want this precise hotness for LXC, etc.
[17:20] <imbrandon> will the charms roll over like packages do ?
[17:20] <jcastro> or does that not matter, my host is precise right?
[17:21] <jcastro> imbrandon: yeah clint just needs to finish off some testing and stuff on it
[17:21] <m_3> we need to do the rollover sometime soon
[17:21] <imbrandon> cool
[17:21] <SpamapS> jcastro: we'll fix this by opening the precise charm store soon
[17:21] <jcastro> SpamapS: yeah it's just hard to demo the contest winners but having to put a "by the way if you're running 12.04 this won't work."
[17:22] <jcastro> so I announced the winners and then later on I will do the demo commands and stuff for each one
[17:22] <SpamapS> jcastro: it will work, if they put 'default-series: oneiric'
[17:22] <SpamapS> jcastro: or 'cs:oneiric/foo'
[17:22] <SpamapS> jcastro: or you wait a week and we push hard to get it open
[17:22] <m_3> jcastro: charms are always developed against the current release, not dev
[17:23] <imbrandon> hey while i got everyone in the same room, m_3 anything special i need to do besides manually mirror for now ? jcastro will you promgstrangualte drupal and where do i start down the path to get my 2 acks myself
[17:23] <m_3> working against precise should be gravy at this point for charms.. not required
[17:23] <jcastro> m_3: yeah I just wanted my cake
[17:23] <SpamapS> m_3: perhaps we should automatically push charms that have not diverged into the dev release when they pass tests on the dev release
[17:23] <jcastro> SpamapS: hey so not doing a default-series:oneiric worked anyway
[17:23] <SpamapS> that would be simple logic
[17:23] <marcoceppi> imbrandon: you still need a final review on the drupal charm before promuglation
[17:23] <jcastro> SpamapS: but we probably don't want to tell people to do that
[17:24] <imbrandon> doh, marcoceppi sorry thought that was done
[17:24] <imbrandon> sorry
[17:24] <m_3> SpamapS: but then the author's automatically maintaining two releases of the charm?
[17:24] <SpamapS> m_3: not really. they only have to maintain when the tests start failing on the dev release.
[17:24] <imbrandon> m_3: they do with packages, i dont see that as a problem
[17:24] <marcoceppi> imbrandon:  It looks like you fixed the mysql error thing, so I'll spin it up one more time (didn't get the bug reply for somereason) if it runs then it should be ready to go
[17:24] <m_3> ok
[17:24] <jcastro1> hello from the subway charm!
[17:24] <imbrandon> marcoceppi: rockin
[17:25] <SpamapS> jcastro: sweeeeet
[17:25] <jcastro> man subway is so sexy, it's my new demo charm
[17:25] <imbrandon> jcastro: how do you make subway persistant damn it, i had to go back to irssi
[17:25] <m_3> imbrandon: drupal'll be mirrored automatically in github.com/charms once it's in the store... then pull requests can go off of that mirrored branch
[17:25] <m_3> jcastro1 awesome!
[17:25] <jcastro1> imbrandon: run it on another machine you don't turn off
[17:25] <imbrandon> sure then i close browser and it d/c
[17:25] <SpamapS> no
[17:25] <SpamapS> node.js keeps running
[17:25] <SpamapS> its still online
[17:25] <jcastro> oh, it's designed for multi user, you need to create an account on it
[17:26] <jcastro> and just relogin next time
[17:26] <imbrandon> it was on me, i couldent reconnect
[17:26] <imbrandon> ohhh
[17:26] <imbrandon> i never made acct
[17:26] <SpamapS> yeah
[17:26] <imbrandon> ok thats my missing part
[17:26] <jcastro> imbrandon: that's nice because you can have multiple people on one deployment
[17:26] <imbrandon> m_3: rockin, ok for now i've been manually pushing to both and have each in the others .ignore file
[17:26] <jcastro> "here's my work IRC." done.
[17:27] <imbrandon> jcastro: yea i'll likely redploy it on the box i run irssi from , i love it, just condent figure that bit out
[17:27] <imbrandon> i was thinking it was a one user deal
[17:27] <jcastro> alice irc in the charm store is the one user one
[17:28] <imbrandon> yea
[17:28] <m_3> SpamapS: yeah, I guess that makes sense once we hit some milestone like beta2, then all charms get promoted and tested against the dev release
[17:28] <m_3> so we're behind :)
[17:28] <imbrandon> SpamapS: btw i've had "walk" on repeat now for 45 minutes, lol , time to change the tunes
[17:28] <imbrandon> your fault
[17:30] <imbrandon> marcoceppi: yea it should have just been a matter of changing it to the mysql not mysqli driver on install
[17:30] <imbrandon> i got some more goodness in store but testing it on brandonholtsclaw.com now, as it breaks some of the default drupal functionality
[17:30] <imbrandon> as is
[17:31] <imbrandon> but takes it from 20 r/s to like 160 r/s ootb
[17:31] <imbrandon> :)
[17:31] <SpamapS> mysqli is *awful*
[17:31] <SpamapS> do not use it
[17:31] <SpamapS> mysqlnd ftw
[17:31] <imbrandon> yea i dont and will when 5.4 hits
[17:32] <imbrandon> 5.3 nd is awefull too
[17:32] <SpamapS> Tho I don't know if we have it enabled yet on 5.3 in precise :-P
[17:32] <SpamapS> imbrandon: it still beats mysqli
[17:32] <imbrandon> yea , just dont, its bad
[17:32] <imbrandon> i've been using the 5.4 ppa
[17:32] <imbrandon> apc is broken tho
[17:32] <imbrandon> thats bad
[17:32] <shazzner> hey everyone
[17:32] <imbrandon> ello
[17:33] <imbrandon> the debian 5.4 ppa that is
[17:33] <imbrandon> something about it is breaking apc right now, not sure what though, i cant get past segfaults
[17:33] <imbrandon> thus the charm still using 5.3
[17:33] <shazzner> a few days ago I talked about promulgating my kusabax charm, but I'm not sure how to do it
[17:34] <imbrandon> but the 30% increase in perf would be nice
[17:34] <m_3> aargh!  if I upgrade my cli, I can't talk to deployed envs... if I don't, I can't deploy new ones
[17:34] <imbrandon> i officially changed that command to promgustrangulate
[17:35] <shazzner> imbrandon: haha
[17:35]  * m_3 groan
[17:35] <imbrandon> catch 22
[17:35] <marcoceppi> m_3: it's funtastic!
[17:36] <m_3> I'm gonna snapshot VMs to run the cli for each long-running env
[17:37] <m_3> and start freezing branches
[17:37] <imbrandon> i'm thinkign we;re gonna start to see that lots in here
[17:37] <imbrandon> the growing pains of rolling releases
[17:41] <m_3> actually, that sounds like a great role for wrap-juju in juju-jitsu... like a virtualenv
[17:42] <imbrandon> oh :(
[17:43] <m_3> read environments.yaml to get the branch for each environment and update path accordingly... hmmm
[17:46] <imbrandon> SpamapS: mmmm juju deploy osx/10.8 :)
[17:55] <jcastro> SpamapS: m_3: you guys feel like hanging?
[17:55] <jcastro> I have some questions about the documentation for review in that bug jdstrand filed
[17:55] <SpamapS> jcastro: in 10
[17:56] <m_3> jcastro: sure
[17:58] <m_3> lemme grab some more coffee, then I'll be on
[18:08] <marcoceppi> Is there a way to get peer-relation information in the install hook?
[18:08] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: with the new relation-ids thing, yes!
[18:08] <marcoceppi> fantastic!
[18:09] <hazmat> SpamapS, marcoceppi there's definite awareness of the foobar that is consistent versions... the bzr branch atm is the realistic option.. going forward, having bootstrap stick a code copy on provider storage,  and deploying from provider storage is probably the right solution, package solutions get messy both for consistent versions and for cross release
[18:09] <marcoceppi> SpamapS:  can I bother you in the #juju-wordpress room for a few mins. Having a hard time figuring out the best way to proceed with something for omgwp
[18:10] <marcoceppi> hazmat: that would be beneficial, if the bootstrap deployed the same juju version across all nodes. that way I can just hold the juju package on my desktop until a more "structured" release update schedule is created
[18:10] <hazmat> imbrandon, that reminds there was a fun php article on hacker news today, in informed hater style, http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
[18:16] <marcoceppi> Can you have more than one charm deployed to the bootstrap?
[18:18] <marcoceppi>  with placement: local
[18:18] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: yes, but don't do it in parallel
[18:18] <marcoceppi> how so?
[18:18] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: if you deploy && deploy, apt-get will run in parallel and fail
[18:19] <marcoceppi> So deploy, wait for started, then deploy again?
[18:20] <marcoceppi> I'm trying to figure out if it'd be better to just deploy the memcache charm on the bootstrap with MySQL or if I should bake memcache in to the charm and use peer relations to manage the sessions between units
[18:20] <marcoceppi> since there's a memcache charm, figured that would be easiest
[18:31] <yolanda> hi
[18:31] <imbrandon> hazmat: heh /me looks
[18:31] <yolanda> i found a problem running postgresql charm in juju local container
[18:31] <yolanda> seems that isn't starting, and when i debug i receive that error: http://paste.ubuntu.com/923751/
[18:32] <hazmat> yolanda, the pg log should have the actual error
[18:33] <hazmat> the locale stuff is looks like a warning..
[18:33] <hazmat> and the hba.conf errors look more interesting
[18:33]  * hazmat tries it out
[18:35] <yolanda> http://paste.ubuntu.com/923758/
[18:38] <hazmat> yolanda, are you deploying that from the charm store or from a charm directory on disk?
[18:39] <shazzner> mediagoblin looks pretty cool
[18:39] <shazzner> let me see if I can't whip up a charm for it
[18:40] <SpamapS> shazzner: I already made one
[18:40] <SpamapS> shazzner: it uses pip installs heavily tho
[18:40] <SpamapS> shazzner: got wrapped up in trying to package half of pypi to get it into a PPA
[18:41] <shazzner> SpamapS: oh nice! :)
[18:42] <yolanda> hazmat, i grabbed the charms with the charm get tool
[18:43] <yolanda> it's on a directory on disk, local repository
[18:43] <imbrandon> hazmat: haha yea i've seen that argument 1000 times, its fundmentally wrong, that parts i see that are good he see's as flaws, i actually think that its a strength of php that you can write bad code, infact one of his complaints sums it up perfect on why php is GOOD , PHP is built to keep chugging along at all costs. When faced with either doing something nonsensical or aborting with an error, it will do something nonsensical. Anything is better t
[18:43] <imbrandon>  /endquote :)
[18:49] <m_3> yolanda: is that against oneiric or precise?
[18:50] <m_3> (the postgresql problems)
[18:50] <yolanda> m_3, precise
[18:51] <m_3> yolanda: it hasn't been tested against precise yet... that's later this week hopefully :)
[18:51] <m_3> we're about to test all charms against precise to prepare for bumping the release version
[18:51] <yolanda> :(
[18:52] <yolanda> i was trying to build a charm that uses postgres
[18:52] <yolanda> so better wait until the test is done?
[18:53] <jcastro> m_3:dang, that ilo card is $85
[18:53] <m_3> jcastro: yup... I was kinda pissed when I realized it wasn't built-in
[18:53] <m_3> still rockin setup though... and pretty cheap even with the ilo card
[18:53] <avoine> yolanda: can you show us the line that is broken?
[18:54] <m_3> yolanda: maybe I can test that one manually early... it shouldn't be too hard of a fix
[18:54] <m_3> the postgresql charm is kinda naive in some of what it does... needs some love from a pg expert :)
[18:55] <yolanda> i pasted the postgres log here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/923758/
[18:55] <m_3> sounds like the host-based-access template is barfing
[18:55] <yolanda> let me check the config line
[18:55] <m_3> heck, could probably even be disabled depending on the app
[18:56] <avoine> yeah it needs IP adresse I think
[18:56] <avoine> or a valid domain name
[18:56] <yolanda> that one: host all openerp <IP_ADDRESS> md5
[18:57] <m_3> hmmm... that looks correct
[18:57] <m_3> lemme check the charm
[18:58] <m_3> oh wait... that's strange
[18:58] <m_3> the <IP_ADDRESS> should say <IP_ADDRESS>/0
[18:59] <m_3> yolanda: you can tweak this behavior on line 13 of hooks/db-relation-changed
[19:00] <yolanda> let me test
[19:00] <m_3> yolanda: perhaps make the change manually on the instance first to test it, then if that works change the charm
[19:00] <yolanda> ok
[19:01] <m_3> might even need to be <IP_ADDRESS>/32 or <IP_ADDRESS>/24
[19:02] <yolanda> line 13 shows just an "exit 0" for me
[19:03] <yolanda> let me see if i have to update the charm
[19:05] <shazzner> does anyone know of this server software that allows people to write/edit books collaboratively?
[19:05]  * shazzner looking for charms to tackle
[19:06] <shazzner> it was called book/word-something
[19:06] <shazzner> I thought I had saved the link :/
[19:06] <m_3> yolanda: I was looking at an older version on my laptop... try line 17
[19:07] <shazzner> ah-ha Booktype that's it
[19:07] <m_3> yolanda: try to manually edit pg_hba.conf and add the /32 to the ip addr... see if pg will restart
[19:08] <m_3> if so, that can be added to the charm.  the mask was there in the natty version, but was _removed_ from the oneiric version of the postgresql charm
[19:08] <yolanda> m_3, seems that postgresq starts when i modify the 2 final lines:
[19:08] <yolanda> host openerp openerp <IP_ADDRESS>/0 md5
[19:08] <yolanda> host all openerp <IP_ADDRESS>/0 md5
[19:09] <m_3> shazzner: gitolite and pandoc works really well for that
[19:09] <shazzner> m_3: ah cool
[19:09]  * shazzner checking out pandoc
[19:09] <m_3> yolanda: so the /0 needs to be added _back_ to the precise version of postgres (I'm confused)
[19:10] <shazzner> this is booktype: http://www.sourcefabric.org/en/booktype/
[19:10] <avoine> shazzner: https://github.com/esetera/Booki.git
[19:10] <yolanda> m-3, yes, seems that it's the solution
[19:10] <m_3> shazzner: http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/epub.html
[19:10] <avoine> oh booki is the old version of booktype
[19:10] <yolanda> m_3, so something like ${remote_host}/0 must be there?
[19:11] <m_3> yeah, let me copy you the line in the older version.. "host $(get_database_name) ${user} ${remote_host_ip}/0 md5"
[19:11] <m_3> although /32 would make more sense honestly
[19:12] <m_3> s/remote_host_ip/remote_host/
[19:14] <m_3> shazzner: I use an old-school makefile with this http://paste.ubuntu.com/923826/
[19:16] <yolanda> m_3, what's the last line? don't understand
[19:17] <shazzner> m_3: pandoc is nice just saw there is an emacs mode too
[19:18] <m_3> yolanda: substitute "remote_host_ip" with "remote_host" in the line above... (remote_host_ip is old)
[19:18] <m_3> shazzner: and you can embed latex if you're into that sort of thing
[19:19] <m_3> shazzner: it's a little more manual... and you collaborate using revision control just like source... but I like it in practice
[19:19] <m_3> also easy to retarget to docbook or other such nonsense that publishers might want
[19:19] <shazzner> m_3: yeah it's rad, I'll save that for later
[19:20] <avoine> yolanda: are you using the last version of the openerp charm?
[19:20]  * shazzner prefers local scripts to large server software
[19:20] <shazzner> still though I think booktype would make a good charm
[19:21] <m_3> absolutely
[19:21] <shazzner> I'm reading that it requires postgresql, sounds like there are some bugs in the charm though?
[19:22] <yolanda> m_3, there is not remote_host_ip line in the hook...
[19:22] <yolanda> avoine, it's just a new openerp charm that i'm writing for 6.1
[19:23] <yolanda> we are also creating a new package for it, it's a kind of collaboration with openerp
[19:23] <yolanda> so the existing openerp charm isn't the same
[19:24] <shazzner> good heavens, the booktype install instructions is a book unto itself
[19:24] <m_3> yolanda: yes, sorry... I was pasting a line from an older version of the charm.  That version used a variable that's no longer there, so I was trying to say "replace that variable with the new variable" in the line I pasted
[19:24] <yolanda> oh, sounded very strange to me :)
[19:24]  * m_3 just tripping over my words :)
[19:24] <yolanda> so i just add a /0 or a /32 at the end?
[19:25] <m_3> I'd try /32 because that makes the most sense for a netmask... but /0 seems to work
[19:25] <m_3> the /0 is safest b/c you've already tried that and it worked
[19:26] <avoine> yolanda: I'm the author of the current openerp charms so don't be afraid to tell me if you want me to change anything to make it fits your new packages
[19:26] <yolanda> avoine, the thing is that the charm is totally different, because openerp 6.1 has server and web integrated
[19:26] <yolanda> and also it's relying on a new package that we are building
[19:27] <yolanda> i wanted to push it as soon as i had it working
[19:27] <m_3> and I wrote the first postgresql charm... and haven't been able to find someone who knows something about postgresql to own it :)
[19:27] <m_3> happy to make whatever changes are necessary
[19:28] <yolanda> i'll do that change and try
[19:28] <avoine> m_3: I had a suggestion in this bug but I'm not sure if it could break something 902672
[19:29] <avoine> hum, I thought the irc bot would catch it, the link: https://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+source/postgresql/+bug/902672
[19:29] <_mup_> Bug #902672: Postgresql pg_hba.conf needs IP addresses <postgresql (Juju Charms Collection):In Progress by mark-mims> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/902672 >
[19:30] <m_3> avoine: right... sorry that's been back-burner
[19:34] <m_3> avoine: I think the biggest problem with this is different providers behaving differently.  I think relation-get private-address is now returning an actual ip addr on ec2 and lxc
[19:34] <yolanda> well, leaving now, it's quite late here...
[19:34] <avoine> m_3: yes
[19:34] <yolanda> thanks for all
[19:35] <avoine> and the patch won't work on IPv6 only network
[19:36] <m_3> avoine: I'll check to see if this was actually fixed in core or is still broken for other providers (openstack)
[19:42] <bkerensa> jcastro: you should ask people to take photos with their juju shirts :)
[20:16] <_mup_> juju/must-specify-relation-name r517 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:16] <_mup_> Merged trunk
[20:33] <robbiew> jcastro: http://gigaom.com/cloud/twitter-open-sources-its-mysql-secret-sauce/
[20:33] <jcastro> I saw, he told me that at posscon but didn't say which
[20:34] <robbiew> https://github.com/twitter/mysql
[20:35] <robbiew> SpamapS: ^
[20:35] <jcastro> I hope you are putting that into a PPA right now Clint, chop chop!
[20:35] <jcastro> :)
[20:35]  * robbiew spends time reading the news while his maas deploys
[20:36] <yagey> hello.  embarrassing first question/problem:  juju bootstrap Could not find AWS_ACCESS_KEY_ID 2012-04-10 20:28:41,619 ERROR Could not find AWS_ACCESS_KEY_ID
[20:36] <SpamapS> twitter's mysql?
[20:36] <SpamapS> nice
[20:36] <yagey> I have set the values in my ~/.profile
[20:36] <robbiew> I *think* I'll be ready for my first juju deploy into my maas...woot
[20:36] <jcastro> SpamapS: they just OSSed all their internal tweaks to mysql
[20:36] <jcastro> yagey: you need to put that in your .juju/environments.yaml file
[20:36] <SpamapS> I do plan to gather some support tomorrow for a group of smart people getting together to have one packaging branch for all of the forks.
[20:37] <jcastro> yagey: https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/getting-started.html
[20:37] <yagey> i've tried setting access-key and secret-key in environments.yaml too, same error
[20:37] <jcastro> under "configuring your environment"
[20:37] <jcastro> SpamapS: he told me they wanted them out there, they don't plan to maintain their own fork etc, they're just going to roll with whatever percona, maria, etc. and co do with them
[20:38] <jcastro> yagey: hmm weird, that has always just worked for me
[20:39] <yagey> i removed from .profile and added to env.y, different error sorry - ubuntu@ip-10-194-250-210:~$ juju bootstrap                                       2012-04-10 20:39:19,137 INFO Bootstrapping environment 'sample' (type: ec2)... SSH authorized/public key not found. 2012-04-10 20:39:19,291 ERROR SSH authorized/public key not found.
[20:40] <SpamapS> "Update: Someone alerted me that Facebook does have a site for sharing its MySQL patches, although it’s hosted at Launchpad."
[20:40] <SpamapS> although.. as in.. thats a reason not to acknowledge it?
[20:41] <SpamapS> Does the author realize that *mysql* is hosted on launchpad?
[20:42] <yagey> ah - I ran:  ssh-keygen -t rsa -b 2048    that fixed it
[20:52] <yagey> I should be able to run juju on an ec2 instance?
[20:58] <hazmat> yagey, yes
[21:04] <yagey> i see, it started an 'small' ec2 instance, which is not in the free tier :(
[21:04] <imbrandon> SpamapS: yea but the world dont see that ( LP vs Github ) kinda like someone bitching about PHP again, php still powers the internet just as Github hosts more opensource code than any other place on the planet, even though Django or Plone or Launchpad or what ever may have the technical upper hand
[21:04] <imbrandon> sucks but its the way of the west
[21:05] <imbrandon> ( and yes github now has more code than sourceforge )
[21:07] <imbrandon> Launchpad was tied to Ubuntu only for too long, it will take a ton of momentum to upheave that in the collective mindset of the internets
[21:07] <yagey> is there a way to have it use micro instances instead?
[21:07] <imbrandon> yagey: you should be able to set the deafult int he env.y
[21:07] <yagey> ok, rtfm https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/constraints.html
[21:08] <hazmat> yagey, yeah.. you can set default-instance-type: t1.micro in your aws environment section of environments.yaml.. or if your using a recent version (ppa) it can be specified via cli --constraints="instance-type=t1.micro"
[21:08] <hazmat> yagey, be aware that the micro instances are severely penalized on cpu usage..
[21:08] <yagey> in terms of performance?  but they are free :)
[21:09] <imbrandon> 1 is free
[21:09] <hazmat> we tried using them as the default for ec2 for a little while, but they were basically broken wrt to predictable performance.
[21:10] <marcoceppi> You get 750 hours of free micros a month, which ends up being about 1 micro a month
[21:10] <yagey> only 1? it doesn't mention that on the page
[21:10] <yagey> ah that makes sense, but I won't run for a whole month yet
[21:11] <marcoceppi> yagey: then you can probably get away with deploying a few things on micros and removing them when done, be aware that there are a lot of issues with bootstrapping and deploying on smalls because of their CPU constraints
[21:11] <marcoceppi> It's a hit-or-miss situation
[21:11] <yagey> ok, thanks
[21:12] <imbrandon> you can just try things out too on local lxc containers
[21:12] <yagey> i saw that page, didn't seem simple enough to start with however
[21:12] <imbrandon> if your just kicking the tires
[21:14] <yagey> I don't see a page showing the environment.yaml possible options in the dev documentation section
[21:14] <marcoceppi> yagey: http://askubuntu.com/questions/65359/how-do-i-configure-juju-for-local-usage
[21:16] <imbrandon> ok so hazmat , marcoceppi mentioned something ealier that i'd like to dig into deeper ( esp since hp cloud comes out of beta here very soon , as in we have a date now ) soooo instead of using s3 container for the bootstrap store the stuff on the bootstrap node and how do i go down that rabbit hole not being familiar with the juju internals at all at this point but more than willing to get my hands dirty , even with putting code where my mouth is
[21:16]  * marcoceppi has secretly been talking to HP. Tuns out their storage doesn't have S3 compatibility turned on but has EC2 compatibility enabled for compute.
[21:16] <imbrandon> yea i got the same thing from pete just now
[21:18] <hazmat> yeah.. i saw that re storage is native, and compute has ec2 compat..
[21:18] <yagey> LXC doesn't appear to work on a virtualbox ubuntu VM, as the network is already virtual
[21:19] <imbrandon> the nic on the vm should be seen as normal by the os
[21:19] <imbrandon> if its bridged
[21:20] <hazmat> imbrandon, so the client uses the storage to identify where the bootstrap node is..
[21:20] <hazmat> so running the storage on the bootstrap node becomes a bit more challenging given that
[21:20] <hazmat> another option would be to play mix and match storage and compute with an ostack native storage
[21:21] <imbrandon> right, so a) i write it to work with swift, or b) make the bootstrap node info avail some other way , least that how i understand it, not having looked at code
[21:21] <hazmat> imbrandon, yup that's the nutshell.. or c) ask hp to turn on the swift s3 middleware
[21:21] <imbrandon> hehe been there, i dont think that will happen iirc
[21:22] <imbrandon> leaste not comming from me
[21:22] <marcoceppi> I had them open a ticket on it for tracking
[21:22] <marcoceppi> not sure if it'll happen
[21:23] <hazmat> yeah.. probably not.. but you never know.. i'm why they would do one but not the other.. i take it the s3 swift middleware perhaps isn't as battle tested at scale perhaps..
[21:23] <imbrandon> so just how intracate is the s3:// code, i mean can either of you point me to the proper digging point i can see just how much of a pain it would be two accomidate swift
[21:24] <imbrandon> hazmat: well i'm told that even the compute will go away is their hopes, i dont see that, amazon has won this round
[21:24] <imbrandon> but you know
[21:25] <hazmat> imbrandon, its pretty simple.. 3 methods (get/put/get_url) -> juju/providers/ec2/files.py
[21:26] <imbrandon> sweet, ok that dont sounds terrible
[21:26] <marcoceppi> hazmat: so would you recommend making juju/providers/openstack/ for this?
[21:26] <hazmat> the get_url needs to create a url that can be used sans credentials.. with s3 its done via their url signing mechanism.. swift also has this capability.. but its in a middleware piece
[21:26] <marcoceppi> I feel it would be better to create a native openstack provider rather than just modifying the current
[21:26] <hazmat> i don't know that its enabled on hp's storage
[21:27] <hazmat> ie.. this one.. http://swift.openstack.org/misc.html#module-swift.common.middleware.tempurl
[21:27] <imbrandon> i was thinking about just translating the ruby gem hpcloud cli parts to python
[21:28] <hazmat> imbrandon, its just ostack native api.... ostack distributes native python clients
[21:28] <hazmat> afaik re hp's impl of it
[21:28] <imbrandon> oh then even better
[21:28] <imbrandon> yea'
[21:28] <imbrandon> if its just pure
[21:28] <SpamapS> hazmat: couldn't we also just use groups to find the bootstrap machine?
[21:28] <hazmat> imbrandon, the juju code base is twisted though.. its like python.. but sorta of  not :-(
[21:29] <hazmat> SpamapS, that would work as well
[21:29] <SpamapS> I mean, do we really need file storage for *that* ?
[21:29] <hazmat> SpamapS, good point
[21:29] <hazmat> SpamapS, we just need some discovery mechanism
[21:29] <SpamapS> I'd love to see an 'hpcloud' provider which just hack-xtends the ec2 provider to implement the file storage.
[21:30] <imbrandon> heh
[21:30] <hazmat> SpamapS, at that point why not just a native ostack impl?
[21:30] <SpamapS> which would then be useful for any cloud that doesn't have S3
[21:30] <SpamapS> hazmat: because thats a lot more code!
[21:30] <hazmat> SpamapS, ie. providers/openstack per marcoceppi's suggestion
[21:30] <SpamapS> Well yes call it whatever you want
[21:31] <SpamapS> call it "halfec2" or "franken-ec2"
[21:31] <imbrandon> well os would work on rackspace too even though they have s3 middleware rtight
[21:31] <hazmat> SpamapS,  not nesc. it could be incomplete if we allow for storage spec independently.. but yeah.. that kinda of gets ugly
[21:31] <marcoceppi> so, just do providers/hpcloud until someone comes out with a full openstack native provider?
[21:31] <SpamapS> I wouldn't call it openstack unless you do the full OSAPI implementation
[21:31] <hazmat> didn't someone start one of those..
[21:31] <SpamapS> hazmat: the openstack guys were interested
[21:31] <imbrandon> i thought that swift was
[21:31] <SpamapS> one of the nova core devs
[21:31] <imbrandon> osapi
[21:32] <marcoceppi> I wish I was better at python or knew go
[21:32] <imbrandon> why go ?
[21:32] <marcoceppi> that's what juju will be written in soon, iirc
[21:33] <imbrandon> ahh, somone got google fever, why not just full nodejs then
[21:33] <SpamapS> imbrandon: uh.... nodejs and go have like, nothing in common.
[21:33] <imbrandon> go compiles to js
[21:33] <SpamapS> dart
[21:33] <SpamapS> thats dart
[21:34] <SpamapS> go compiles into native statically linked binaries
[21:34] <imbrandon> ... >.> /me might be mixed up
[21:34] <SpamapS> with a big runtime
[21:34] <SpamapS> well
[21:34] <SpamapS> a tiny runtime actually
[21:34] <SpamapS> anyway, yeah, go, not dart
[21:34] <marcoceppi> php \o/
[21:34] <SpamapS> imbrandon: lp:juju/go
[21:34] <imbrandon> :)
[21:34]  * imbrandon high fives marcoceppi
[21:35] <imbrandon> SpamapS: yea i'll have to look, no idea how i equated the two
[21:35] <SpamapS> imbrandon: well apparently google likes to invent languages :)
[21:35] <imbrandon> maybe dart in written in go ? /me is even more confused now
[21:35] <SpamapS> and go was such an odd choice.. like, how about call it 'be' or 'have'
[21:36] <imbrandon> lol
[21:37] <imbrandon> marcoceppi: and languages are just syntax, once you learn one, picking up new ones is easy :) its what keeps us relevant
[21:37] <SpamapS> yeah, I like go actually
[21:37] <imbrandon> is it whitespace depdant ?
[21:37] <SpamapS> makes me feel like I'm reading C, but I don't have to get all sideways on pointers
[21:37] <SpamapS> no
[21:38] <SpamapS> imbrandon: its very C-like
[21:38] <SpamapS> imbrandon: but it has an automatic formatter thingy that keeps all go indented the same
[21:38] <imbrandon> sweet i like c like
[21:38] <marcoceppi> I went through the go demo thing, got to chapter 20 something
[21:39] <imbrandon> yea as long as its not whitspace sensative i can learn to love it, its my ONLY problem with python
[21:39] <SpamapS> whats so bad about whitespace sensitive?  There is no nit picking.
[21:42] <SpamapS> it works, or it doesn't
[21:42] <imbrandon> heh
[21:43] <SpamapS> anyway, language debates are outlawed for the next 30 minutes so I can get something worthwhile done
[21:43] <imbrandon> roger :)
[21:43] <SpamapS> (like save all these daisies for these pirates)
[21:45] <hazmat> http://www.pirateslovedaisies.com/ :-)
[21:46] <imbrandon> zomg
[21:48] <imbrandon> ok sooo back to the main question, do i start a hp cloud provider and just copy most of the code from ec2
[21:48] <imbrandon> as bloilerplate
[21:48] <imbrandon> and fix the storage or what was that aobut groups
[21:48] <SpamapS> imbrandon: I would import the ec2 provider's machineprovider object, and just write my own filestore
[21:49] <SpamapS> imbrandon: please don't copy/paste! ;)
[21:49] <imbrandon> or import
[21:49] <imbrandon> :)
[21:49] <SpamapS> imbrandon: I know you're used to PHP and namespaces are all new and sexy.. but they are built in to python :)
[21:49] <imbrandon> hahaahh
[21:49] <imbrandon> i know i know :) i dont even have to name them, just have the file names ;)
[21:50] <imbrandon> just cuz i dont like python dont mean i cant hobble some togather :)
[21:51] <imbrandon> man i could get used to ubuntu app design again, css3 for skins now go instead of python
[21:52] <imbrandon> its like your after my own heart
[21:56] <imbrandon> pypm install launchpadlib
[21:56] <imbrandon> gah
[21:56] <robbiew> SpamapS: so...if I have juju installed from the ppa and do a bootstrap, my node should have the same version of juju...right?
[21:57] <robbiew> testing maas...and my node is getting juju from the archive :/
[21:57] <robbiew> even though I have the ppa setup on my local machine
[21:57] <imbrandon> what about in the env.y
[21:57] <robbiew> that's empty
[21:58] <robbiew> wait..no
[21:58] <robbiew> I actually added juju-origin: ppa
[21:58] <imbrandon> ahh then smells like a bug
[21:58] <robbiew> b/c w/o that line, it still did the same :/
[21:58] <robbiew> http://www.sadtrombone.com
[21:59] <hazmat> ugh.. pypm.. active state ugh..
[21:59] <imbrandon> hazmat: easy way to get launchpadlib on osx
[21:59] <hazmat> robbiew, so checked your apt-cache output, the code parses it correctly.. which odd
[21:59] <hazmat> imbrandon, pip/easy_install are builtin on osx as well
[22:00] <SpamapS> robbiew: the PPA auto-detect thing may not be working right
[22:00] <hazmat> robbiew, so even with the explicit juju-origin its installing from the archives?
[22:00] <robbiew> yes
[22:01] <robbiew> 0.5+bzr504-0ubuntu1 on the bootstrap node
[22:02] <robbiew> 0.5+bzr518-1juju5~precise1 on my machine
[22:02] <hazmat> robbiew, if you login into the instance can you pastebin /var/log/cloud-init-output.log  and /var/lib/cloud/instance/user-data.txt
[22:03] <robbiew> sure thing
[22:04] <hazmat>  i put some code in the latest trunk on r517 to log origin on bootstrap, but with the apt-cache policy juju you sent me earlier, the auto detect code did the right thing.. but even ignoring that.. getting juju-origin switched out is bogus..
[22:04] <hazmat> if its explicitly specified
[22:05] <hazmat> robbiew, hmm.. i wonder.. does maas reinstall when machines get recycled on destroy-environment/bootstrap.. or just stop/start the machine.
[22:07] <robbiew> hazmat: good question...i don't believe it reinstalls
[22:09] <robbiew> hazmat: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/924048
[22:09] <hazmat> robbiew, hmm.. 2012-04-10 17:46:34,398 - cc_apt_update_upgrade.py[WARNING]: Source Error: ppa:juju/pkgs:add-apt-repository failed
[22:10] <robbiew> hmm
[22:10] <robbiew> maybe network blip
[22:11] <hazmat> so the ppa fails, and when it goes to install it latter it  gets distro.. that makes more sense
[22:12] <SpamapS> doesn't reinstall?
[22:13] <SpamapS> thats a violation of the basic expectations that juju offers charm authors IMO.
[22:13] <SpamapS> Otherwise charms need to get even more careful about idempotency
[22:19] <imbrandon> Why is Petyr Baelish called "LittleFinger" ?
[22:19] <hazmat> idempotency doesn't nesc. help here, without the reinstall the disk just becomes an accumulated dumping ground,   juju expects thats releasing a machine will make it go poof, destroy-env doesn't attempt to cleanup disks, so you'd have potentially old agents still running on the newly booted machine.
[22:21] <robbiew> ok...I'm going to blow away my maas and start fresh...luckily I've done that a bazillion times now, so it's painless :P
[22:22] <hazmat> imbrandon OT but..  http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Petyr_Baelish
[22:23] <imbrandon> hazmat: haha yea, i seen it on a adv banner, thought it was clever , winter is def comming
[22:34] <SpamapS> imbrandon: because he's from the fingers and he's little
[22:34]  * SpamapS has found himself getting more and more obsessed with GoT
[22:35] <imbrandon> same here. ive actualy read ahead in the books now, just waiting on the story to play out on tv
[22:35] <SpamapS> yeah, I'm on book 5
[22:36] <imbrandon> i'm not quite that far, i think starting 4 its been a few months
[22:36] <imbrandon> i'm 1 past where last season ended
[22:36] <imbrandon> and that was 3 i think
[22:37] <SpamapS> yeah, from the previews, it looks like season 2 may be a bit more than book 2
[22:37] <imbrandon> yea, i just watched the first eps of season 2 lasty night on dvr
[22:45] <marcoceppi> Holy crap, that's quite a loud depreciated warning
[22:46] <marcoceppi> I guess no more default-instance-type
[22:46] <SpamapS> what
[22:46] <SpamapS> oh its all wrapped up in constraints now?
[22:46] <marcoceppi> http://paste.ubuntu.com/924092/
[22:46] <SpamapS> I'm guessing constraints is what broke existing bootstrapped envs from using the PPA
[22:47] <marcoceppi> yeah, I was just surprised how verbose that warning was
[22:47] <marcoceppi> NO! It's not in autocomplete
[22:47] <marcoceppi> unless, you can't bootstrap with constraints?
[22:47] <SpamapS> we need to update the bash completion to call juju the way bzr does
[22:49] <marcoceppi> can I run juju set-constraints before bootstraping, or is that something that needs to run after you boostrap?
[22:49] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: I think it has a --constraints
[22:50] <marcoceppi> ah, the wiki page has the info
[22:50] <marcoceppi> sweet
[22:50] <marcoceppi> I searched everywhere but the obvious place
[22:53] <marcoceppi> SpamapS: so, since I have the latest ppa version, how do I do placement: local?
[22:53] <jcastro> aha!
[22:53] <marcoceppi> is that still in the environment.yaml
[22:53] <jcastro> updated documentation!
[22:53] <jcastro> so used to having it be out of date that now you have no idea what to do!
[22:56] <imbrandon> SpamapS: dude, GO is typed PHP 5.4
[22:56] <imbrandon> like for real
[22:56] <SpamapS> http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/18261941.jpg
[22:57] <imbrandon> 404
[22:59] <SpamapS> not here. :-P
[22:59] <lifeless> 500
[22:59] <imbrandon> ERROR
[22:59] <imbrandon> The request could not be satisfied.
[23:00] <lifeless> indeed
[23:00] <imbrandon> btw moins lifeless :)
[23:01] <imbrandon> mmm i could get used to this though, /me downloads the dev kit
[23:03] <SpamapS> imbrandon: golang 1 is in precise
[23:04] <imbrandon> i know i know, i need to install precise, i tried this morning actually, and failed, almost took out my osx partition
[23:04] <imbrandon> was quite miffed , will try again in the monring
[23:05] <SpamapS> I install using rEFIt and unetbootin .. never have problems that way
[23:05] <robbiew> hazmat: sorted it....networking related...routing between my maas setup and the internet was broken
[23:07] <yagey> when I deploy a mongodb instance, and another via add-unit - it should configure a replica set right?
[23:08] <imbrandon> SpamapS: yea i couldent get the precise image to boot from refit
[23:08] <imbrandon> just kept recycling
[23:09] <imbrandon> but i grabbed the one "made for mac" i'm grab the normal x64 one and try again
[23:10] <SpamapS> yagey: yes it should
[23:10]  * SpamapS bumps negronjl to write a README for mongodb
[23:10] <SpamapS> negronjl: ^^
[23:11] <yagey> it doesn't.  I'll try debug-log to see what up
[23:11] <negronjl> SpamapS: I'll get to it in just a minute :)
[23:12] <yagey> does juju need to run as root or sudo?
[23:14] <SpamapS> yagey: the juju client should be fine running as your user
[23:14] <SpamapS> yagey: the agents run as root, so the charms run as root
[23:15] <yagey> 2012-04-10 16:14:14,908 Machine:0: twisted ERROR: Copy /var/cache/lxc/oneiric/rootfs-amd64 to /var/lib/lxc/yagey-sample-0-template/rootfs ...  2012-04-10 16:14:14,912 Machine:0: twisted ERROR: Copying rootfs to /var/lib/lxc/yagey-sample-0-template/rootfs ...Please change root-password !
[23:16] <lifeless> SpamapS: so whats the memgenerator url (page, not jpg)
[23:16] <SpamapS> http://memegenerator.net/instance/18261941
[23:16] <SpamapS> so not as funny 10 minutes later
[23:16] <lifeless> :)
[23:18] <m_3> yagey: I tested mongo replicasets using three nodes at a time (juju deploy ... -n3 local:mongodb)
[23:18] <m_3> yagey: didn't do a lot of starting one and then adding others one at a time... I'll bet that takes longer
[23:18] <yagey> thanks, it appears to be a lxc issue with dependencies
[23:18] <m_3> yagey: should still work eventually though
[23:19] <m_3> ah, gotcha
[23:19] <SpamapS> yagey: charm missing some deps?
[23:19] <yagey> 2012-04-10 16:14:14,920 Machine:0: twisted ERROR: The following packages have unmet dependencies: 2012-04-10 16:14:14,920 Machine:0: twisted ERROR:  ubuntu-minimal : Depends: netcat-openbsd but it is not going to be installed 2012-04-10 16:14:14,920 Machine:0: twisted ERROR: E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution). 2012-04-10 16:14:14,928 Machine:0: twisted ERROR: failed to execute template
[23:20] <SpamapS> weird
[23:21]  * m_3 suspects incomplete lxc images... let it finish caching the first image (?)
[23:29] <negronjl> SpamapS: MongoDB README file done ... let me know if it's good enough
[23:29] <SpamapS> negronjl: you type fast ;)
[23:29] <yagey> *m_3 any suggestions?  what kind of image?
[23:30] <negronjl> SpamapS: I had it done already just forgot to push it ;)
[23:30] <negronjl> SpamapS: err .. I mean .. yeah I typ really fast :)
[23:30] <yagey> spamaps - can I see that README?
[23:32] <SpamapS> yagey: yes, just pull the latest version of the charm
[23:32] <SpamapS> yagey: should be visible here soon: http://jujucharms.com/charms/oneiric/mongodb
[23:40] <m_3> crap yagey left
[23:43] <m_3> hope that got worked out


[00:37] <JonEdney> Howdy folks
[00:43] <cmaloney> Hello
[00:50] <JonEdney> It's been a while since I've kept up on anything. Is there still meetups in the downriver area?
[00:50] <JonEdney> Hmm. *Are there still meetups
[00:50] <JonEdney> Grammar isn't my strong suite.
[01:51] <cmaloney> I'm not sure.
[01:51] <cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: ^^
[02:25] <_stink_> i think CHC downriver stopped a while back
[03:07] <cmaloney> Thats what I thought
[14:10] <cmaloney> Good morning
[14:16] <_stink_> yo
[15:34] <ColonelPanic001> JonEdney_v2: uh
[15:35] <ColonelPanic001> not now.... but there could be.
[15:35] <ColonelPanic001> in that, it'd be neat if there were
[15:35] <ColonelPanic001> we need to start a downriver lug.
[15:35] <ColonelPanic001> or a splinter group from MUG
[15:35] <ColonelPanic001> Da Mug
[15:35] <ColonelPanic001> Downriver Area MUG
[15:35] <ColonelPanic001> JonEdney_v2: you from downriver?
[15:41] <cmaloney> No need to splinter. Just come to the meetings. :)
[15:42] <cmaloney> We won't judge.
[15:42] <cmaloney> (much)
[15:42] <cmaloney> ;)
[15:42] <ColonelPanic001> meet closer :P
[15:42] <cmaloney> It's not like we're in Ohio
[15:42] <cmaloney> Sheesh
[15:42] <ColonelPanic001> ohio is easier for me to get to :P
[15:42] <cmaloney> How far downriver are you?
[15:42] <ColonelPanic001> and I have an offspring I have to do stuff for now, needy bastard
[15:42] <ColonelPanic001> Southgate
[15:43] <ColonelPanic001> exit 37ish on I-75, maybe a mile or two from there
[15:43] <cmaloney> WTF, you got married without letting anyone know and now you've procreated?
[15:43] <ColonelPanic001> court gag order
[15:43] <cmaloney> Pretty soon you'll be telling us you have an underground bunker in Southgate
[15:43] <ColonelPanic001> matter of national security
[15:43] <ColonelPanic001> I would have a bunker if I could.
[15:43] <cmaloney> (congrats!)
[15:44] <cmaloney> It's 46 minutes away acc. to Google Maps.
[15:44] <cmaloney> Straight shot up US-24
[15:45] <ColonelPanic001> (thanks! Nov 14th, fwiw)
[15:45] <cmaloney> aka: Telegraph. :)
[15:45] <cmaloney> Or you could take the Southfield but I hate that road as well
[15:45] <ColonelPanic001> yeah, so coming to MUG is a "leave for work in the morning and come back sometime at night" day... maybe when it's less of a big deal to leave my wife to care for the spawn the entire day. I try to give her a break when I get home
[15:45] <cmaloney> I used to live in Belleville and come to MUG.
[15:46] <cmaloney> Understandable.
[15:46] <ColonelPanic001> oooooooh sorry, Mister I'll-drive-anywhere :P
[15:46] <ColonelPanic001> honestly I just hate driving
[15:46] <ColonelPanic001> working from home spoiled me. I know how good it can be
[15:46] <cmaloney> Well it bugs me when people say anything under an hour is "too far"
[15:47] <ColonelPanic001> it is far. :P
[15:47] <ColonelPanic001> that's minimum 1.5h total. plus time for the meeting, etc.
[15:47] <ColonelPanic001> you guys do have a much stronger presense out there though, I do want to go sometime
[15:48] <brousch> ColonelPanic001: I encourage my wife to take a night off each week.
[15:48] <ColonelPanic001> same
[15:48] <ColonelPanic001> get home and kick her out
[15:48] <ColonelPanic001> into the snow
[15:48] <ColonelPanic001> and then she whines about "I DON'T HAVE A COAT OR CAR KEYS"
[15:48] <ColonelPanic001> how ungrateful
[15:48] <brousch> My night off is a user group or maker social. She goes to a knitting club
[15:49] <ColonelPanic001> yeah, I could work it in like that.
[15:50] <ColonelPanic001> she stays home with the kid though, so at least for a little while, when it's constant attention stuff, she works harder than I do during the day with him
[15:50] <ColonelPanic001> listen I have to try and not be murdered by my wife
[15:50] <ColonelPanic001> that's pretty much the best way to sum up our relationship. Each day, I say "how can I prevent my inevitable murder today?"
[15:50] <ColonelPanic001> and usually, it's "give her a break from the kid after work"
[15:51] <ColonelPanic001> that bumps my survival chances into the double digits at least
[15:52] <brousch> Yeah, it is different with an infant
[15:53] <ColonelPanic001> meh. He's not bad. I'm a misanthropic hermit anyway
[15:53] <brousch> So you will have to take the day off of work on MUG days to watch the kid. She can go out all day. Then she watches the kid at night while you MUG
[15:53] <ColonelPanic001> I do have the vacation time to do it...
[15:53] <brousch> Distance is not a valid complaint. I drove from GR in the rain for MUG
[15:54] <ColonelPanic001> brousch: your bad decisions don't require me to make bad decisions ;)
[15:55] <ColonelPanic001> nah, that is a long drive. I forgot you're from GR. You go to GrrCon?
[15:55] <brousch> It wasn't bad. I got a free dinner and gas money!
[15:55] <ColonelPanic001> if not for it being right around Jenny's due date, I would have probably gone to that, it looks neat
[15:55] <ColonelPanic001> brousch: free dinner changes everything
[15:55] <brousch> I went to GrrCON two years
[15:56] <ColonelPanic001> awesome. worth driving from Detroit?
[15:56] <brousch> The talks scare me too much
[15:56] <brousch> OH definitely
[15:56] <ColonelPanic001> I already requested it at work
[15:56] <ColonelPanic001> cool.
[15:57] <ColonelPanic001> think I requested GrrCon, Ohio LinuxFest, and a couple in detroit itself (self conf, mobile self conf, api craft, converge)
[15:58] <ColonelPanic001> we'll see. some of those cost the university essentially nothing, so they're likely.I
[16:00] <ColonelPanic001> my wife did give me permission to go to Penguicon this year, too. Might do just one day, not sure yet.
[16:01] <_stink_> remember that such permission is always revokable
[16:01] <ColonelPanic001> it is true that it was not given in writing
[16:01] <ColonelPanic001> I should make her do that. And then have Rob notarize it
[16:01] <_stink_> yes
[16:13] <cmaloney> heh
[16:14] <cmaloney> Need to figure out when the release party will be at Penguicon
[16:14] <cmaloney> Feh, I'm a bottleneck.
[16:17] <ColonelPanic001> real cmaloneys have curves.
[16:17] <ColonelPanic001> two of them, convex, one on each side
[16:17] <ColonelPanic001> concave, rather
[16:17] <ColonelPanic001> whatever, I barely got sleep
[16:17] <ColonelPanic001> I can't be expected to know "shapes" and "basic human knowledge"
[16:22] <cmaloney> heh
[19:44] <JonEdney> ColonelPanic001, yes I'm out of downriver. Lincoln Park specifically.
[19:45] <JonEdney> (In and out all day, sorry for delay)
[19:45] <ColonelPanic001> np, nice
[19:45] <ColonelPanic001> I'm grew up in Lincoln Park, moved a couple miles to the south
[19:46] <ColonelPanic001> I'm grew up. ffs.
[19:46] <JonEdney> lol
[19:46] <JonEdney> I grew up in Woodhaven, been in LP for about 2 years now.
[19:47] <ColonelPanic001> my dad was from about that area. Brownstown, went to Woodhaven's HS, iirc
[19:47] <ColonelPanic001> I grew up in southern lp, in southgate now
[19:47] <ColonelPanic001> the Land of Restaurants
[19:48] <ColonelPanic001> if there were some sort of computer group, lug, whatever, would you be interested? I've always kinda half kicked around the idea, but didn't know who would be involved anyway, but lately seems like I could think of more people
[19:49] <ColonelPanic001> just thinking out loud here, no commitment or anything
[19:49] <JonEdney> I'd be interested. I'm still a novice in comparison to most, but actively studying for my Linux+ and web development, I'd be game.
[19:50] <ColonelPanic001> awesome. If something should happen, I will make sure to come here and inform you
[19:50] <JonEdney> Sounds good! I have to go grab kids from school. I'll be around, thank you.
[19:50] <ColonelPanic001> I've joked about starting the "downriver society for advanced computing" just so I could call it "dsac" like a giggling 14 year old, but maybe we should do something like that. with a better name.
[19:50] <ColonelPanic001> np, thanks
[19:52] <brousch> There's an actual place called Browntown?
[19:58] <_stink_> ..
[20:18] <ColonelPanic001> Brownstown
[20:18] <ColonelPanic001> yes
[20:21]  * brousch snickers
[20:43] <_stink_> tsk tsk
[21:20] <ColonelPanic001> o.o
[21:21] <rick_h_> hmm
[21:25] <ColonelPanic001> jayis is another WSU person
[21:25] <ColonelPanic001> we're invading
[21:25] <jayis> :D
[21:26] <rick_h_> ruh roh
[21:44] <cmaloney> heh
[21:54] <ColonelPanic001> JonEdney: you around? You have caused so much trouble.
[21:54] <ColonelPanic001> ./j #downriverug
[21:54] <ColonelPanic001> we're tossing ideas around and stuff
[21:54] <JonEdney> hahaha
[22:25] <lmorchard> cmaloney: Heya, are folks still gathering for CHC in royal oak? thinking I might break my hermit streak soon and try to start coming out again


[03:13] <GunnarHj> Hi duflu, what's the plans wrt mutter SRUs? Via bug #1903230 I was lead to assume that 3.36.7 would be SRU'ed, but now I suspect that you will wait for 3.36.8 respective 3.38.2 instead. My main concern is bug #1899206, but there are apparently other too.
[03:14] <duflu> GunnarHj, I don't know, mostly because I am not involved in the publishing. It's usually Marco who does it
[03:16] <GunnarHj> duflu: I have heard he is busy with other things. Maybe you could make an exception. (Or I could.)
[03:17] <duflu> GunnarHj, I don't actually have the power to do anything more
[03:18] <duflu> Marco is overloaded as many of us are. So I've found the most effective way to get mutter fixes released is to upstream and then wait :/
[03:19] <GunnarHj> GunnarHj: I have upload rights in Ubuntu. Let's see if anybody expresses an opinion later today.
[03:19] <duflu> GunnarHj, I would not expect any complaints if everything is done by the book. Go for it
[03:21] <GunnarHj> duflu: I wouldn't expect any objections either. But I would still know first about a possible plan to wait.
[03:21] <GunnarHj> s/know/like to know/
[03:21] <duflu> GunnarHj, the only person with a plan might be Marco. Otherwise just SRU at leisure
[03:24] <GunnarHj> duflu: In any case I'll get some sleep first. But if I do it, are you aware of post 3.36.7 commits (besides the bug I mentioned) which should be included?
[03:24]  * duflu checks
[03:25] <duflu> GunnarHj, no I can't find or remember anything more for mutter. And good night :)
[03:25] <GunnarHj> Thanks. Happy workday. :)
[05:35] <jibel> Good morning
[06:58] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[07:02] <jibel> salut oSoMoN
[07:02] <oSoMoN> salut jibel
[07:16] <didrocks> good morning
[07:26] <duflu> Salut jibel, oSoMoN, didrocks
[07:29] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks
[07:29] <oSoMoN> hey duflu
[07:35] <didrocks> hey duflu, salut oSoMoN
[07:52] <KGB-0> gnome-shell ubuntu/master Daniel van Vugt * [close] merge request !43: Add fix-st-bin-crashes.patch (LP: #1898005, LP: #1898910) * https://deb.li/oRTF
[07:55] <duflu> Pardon me
[08:09] <GunnarHj> Good morning Trevinho, seb128! I would like to SRU mutter 3.36.7 plus the fix of bug #1899206.
[08:09] <GunnarHj> Talked with duflu about it a few hours ago:
[08:09] <GunnarHj> https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2020/12/02/%23ubuntu-desktop.html
[08:09] <GunnarHj> Thoughts/objections?
[08:09] <duflu> Yeah good morning GunnarHj. Surely you need more sleep?
[08:10] <GunnarHj> duflu: That will suffice. :) (Slept a lot yesterday.)
[08:12] <duflu> RAOF are you around?
[08:13] <duflu> When you are, I have a theory that this might help with that old desktop-icons leak: https://gitlab.gnome.org/World/ShellExtensions/desktop-icons/-/commit/16447ab5bebcd4efb792e25335438f43b503c3e6
[08:40] <seb128> goood morning desktopers
[08:40] <seb128> lut oSoMoN, jibel, didrocks, hey duflu  GunnarHj
[08:40] <duflu> Hi seb128
[08:41] <didrocks> salut seb128
[08:42] <seb128> GunnarHj, the SRU is blocked on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1896334/comments/1 to be resolved
[08:45] <GunnarHj> seb128: That one is fixed in focal it seems.
[08:49] <GunnarHj> seb128: Or are you saying that both gnome-shell and mutter are blocked due to the extension discussion?
[08:51] <seb128> GunnarHj, right, the stack needs to go together
[08:52] <GunnarHj> seb128: How about only cherry picking?
[08:54] <GunnarHj> seb128: I recently did that for gnome-shell, btw, without objections from the SRU team.
[09:01] <seb128> GunnarHj, please don't, we are working toward getting .7 update, read the channel backlog from yesterday on irclog we discussed it
[09:01] <seb128> .7 has several other important issues resolved
[09:02] <seb128> we need to move forward, it's just taking time because of the SRU team discussion I was referring to
[09:02] <GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, then I won't interfere.
[09:02] <seb128> thanks
[09:02] <seb128> if you want to help see if Trevinho needs something to be able to move the update forward
[09:05] <Laney> yo
[09:05] <duflu> Hi Laney
[09:06] <seb128> hey Laney , how are you today?
[09:09] <duflu> How are you seb128?
[09:10] <seb128> duflu, tired but fine otherwise! you?
[09:10] <duflu> seb128, I'm OK. Exciting night ahead setting up a new phone
[09:10] <seb128> which one did you pick? pixel?
[09:10] <duflu> No, iPhone 12 Mini
[09:11] <duflu> I miss the good old days of small phones
[09:11] <seb128> right, being able to reach the corner of the screen without having to use the other hand!
[09:12] <duflu> Also something that's not oversized for my skinny legs when in the front pocket
[09:17] <Laney> hey duflu seb128
[09:17] <Laney> doing gooooooooooooooood
[09:52] <ricotz> oSoMoN, hey :)
[09:52] <ricotz> oSoMoN, https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/500f3c5615e5 so FF85 it is for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rustc/+bug/1901571
[12:50] <oSoMoN> ricotz, ack, thanks, I'll update the bug
[12:55] <ricotz> oSoMoN, michael is on it :) https://launchpad.net/~mwhudson/+ppa-packages
[15:57] <hellsworth> good morning desktopers
[15:58] <Maik> hi hellsworth
[15:58] <hellsworth> hi thre Maik
[16:03] <oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth
[16:03] <hellsworth> hi oSoMoN !


[00:22] <CIA-12> ubiquity: superm1 * r5528 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog ubiquity/plugins/ubi-timezone.py):
[00:22] <CIA-12> ubiquity: Don't let oem-config crash from an invalid server return on the timezone
[00:22] <CIA-12> ubiquity: page.
[10:42] <mpt> xnox, hi, how is the LVM going?
[10:42] <xnox> mpt: hello. working on it. implementing backend bits. I don't have anything to show which matches your spec yet.
[10:43] <mpt> xnox, ok, just making sure you aren't blocked on anything. I'm continuing on LUKS design today.
[10:43] <xnox> mpt: ok. thank you. Have fun with LUKS =) poke me if you need anything
[11:54] <mpt> xnox, can you choose any filesystem (e.g. ext4, btrfs) for a LUKS device?
[11:55] <xnox> mpt: yes. as well as lvm & raid to be on top of LUKS device.
[11:57] <xnox> mpt: btw I have found out that it is actually possible to use an lvm logical volume as a real disk with partition table, mbr, bootloader installation etc. but this should not be offered in the UI. This type of stuff is used by e.g. VirtualMachineManager as a backend for hard disks.
[11:57] <xnox> just a point of interest really
[11:58] <mpt> xnox, those "Create Partition" and "Edit Partition" dialogs have the sort of weird spacing I usually see in windows that haven't been ported from GTK2 to GTK3
[11:59] <cjwatson> Yeah, I got partway through porting everything to GtkGrid but never finished
[12:00] <xnox> plus the two of them are 'a bit funny' as to how many columns should be used & which things should be aligned together.
[12:00] <xnox> cjwatson: so GtkBox should be killed everywhere in favor of GtkGrid?
[12:01] <cjwatson> Yeah, just be careful.  There's a porting guide somewhere.  It's slightly easy to get expand/fill handling wrong
[12:02] <cjwatson> But the payoff is height-for-width support everywhere (to make that work in widgets, especially labels, you have to make sure that all the containers support it)
[12:04] <cjwatson> e.g. I have a bzr shelf labelled "failed attempt at a GtkGrid port of webcam for bug 961025" which is http://paste.ubuntu.com/1064155/
[12:04] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 961025 in ubiquity "ubi-webcam: Pictures listed on 1 column" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/961025
[12:06] <cjwatson> I think I already ported away from the deprecated [HV]Box widgets, which is the first step
[12:27] <xnox> ok
[12:28] <xnox> cjwatson: --pdb rightfully does nothing =)
[12:28] <xnox> ?!
[12:31] <xnox> unless i'm failing to run it interactively
[12:33] <xnox> nevermind
[14:04] <soren> I'm helping a colleague with some grub-installer stuff, and I stumbled upon http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/grub-installer/master/view/head:/grub-installer#L525
[14:04] <soren> I'm a bit confused by it.
[14:05] <soren> The comment above says it's supposed to avoid things like "(hd0)" and rather try to get something like a stable by-id link.
[14:05] <soren> Line 523 does exactly that (yields a by-id link)
[14:05] <soren> Line 525 turns that back into a /dev/sda sort of device name, which is only marginally better than "(hd0)".
[14:05] <soren> Why not stick with the by-id name?


[00:55] <zzzzam> I'm sure I'm missing something obvious, but..  the TV listings on some DTV stations have no
[00:55] <zzzzam> arrg..  strike that
[00:59] <zzzzam>  zzzzam: I'm sure I'm missing something obvious, but..  the TV listings on some DTV stations have problems where the listing  summary shows up incorrectly.  the listing for the related sub-station.  does anyone know about this issue?
[03:57] <mochabcha> is there a way to control mythbuntu totally with a gamepad
[04:05] <mochabcha> is there a way to control mythbuntu totally with a gamepad
[07:18] <rhpot1991> HD Homerun for 138 @ newegg with the email code
[07:19] <rhpot1991> EMCBABEDC
[11:54] <Jonathon> !help
[11:54] <Zinn> Use ! followed by a topic to get help on the topic (if it exists) example: !logs.  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].  For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi
[11:56] <Jonathon> How do I get a STB to tune into a channel in MythTV? I can get the channels on a tv, but Myth does not seem to see it at all, even if I specify the channel number or frequency?
[11:56] <hads> That would depend on the STB. A common way is an IR blaster.
[11:57] <Jonathon> hads: Am I wrong, but is that not for changing channels? Lets assume it only has one channel on the STB, does that make the IR Blaster obsolete?
[11:58] <hads> I'm not sure about that situation, not something we have here.
[11:59] <Jonathon> I don't see why that a tv can do a  scan and pick it up, but a scan by mythtv does not?
[12:04] <Jonathon> I have picture signal coming through the coax on channel 45, however, channel 45 on mythtv has nothing? Even if I set it in the Channel Editor, there is nothing there. Any suggestions on what is wrong and how to fix it?
[12:09] <directhex> have you set the region correctly? analog input you need to pick a region
[12:09] <directhex> for the frequency->channel mapping to work
[12:13] <Jonathon> yeah, it picks up all the other channels coming throught the STB, just not the one from the satellite input, even though it all comes in over the one coax cable.
[17:59] <BWGames> just installed both 8.04.1 and 8.10, but no sound output in either. its a standard onboard via sound. any ideas pls?
[19:34] <MythbuntuGuest88> I'm having a bit of trouble with mplayer.  I have a MCE remote (and a universal remote that I'm trying to use).  If I use the windows button in mplayer it pops up a menu that lets me go to the dvd root
[19:36] <MythbuntuGuest88> I used irw and that button on the remote is "Home".  My universal remote does not have a home button, but it has a "Menu" button.  Using irw I foudn that button sends "DVD".  I updated mplayer lirc config so DVD does the same thing as Home, but it does not work
[19:36] <MythbuntuGuest88> from irw the windows button == "Home"
[22:03] <Jonathon> Why does my tv scan pickup my external STB, but a MythTV scan does not? I can't even get a picture when I set it to the specific channel?


[01:25] <oneman> hello
[01:26] <oneman> I really want to use a high-cpu-medium instance on EC2, but It won't let me choose that with the maverick 10.10 ami
[01:26] <erichammond> oneman: You have to pick the 32-bit AMI for c1.medium, not the 64-bit AMI
[01:27] <oneman> Whats the reason behind that?
[01:27] <erichammond> c1.medium is 32-bit.
[01:27] <oneman> I have used 64bit on c1.medium
[01:27] <oneman> let me double check
[01:27] <erichammond> oneman: No you haven't :)
[01:27] <erichammond> c1.medium is a nice machine, though.  Good performance as long as you don't need lots of memory.
[01:27] <oneman> indeed
[01:27] <oneman> oops ;P
[01:28] <oneman> I'm actually trying to do something new and crazy
[01:28] <oneman> Run jackd on the cloud
[01:28] <oneman> 1024 sample period is fine tho
[01:28] <oneman> so its not super tight..
[01:29] <erichammond> oneman: I just read about JACK yesterday.  My son is interested in connecting his MIDI keyboard to Ubuntu and I have no idea how to set all that up.
[01:29] <oneman> start jack, plug in the keyboard, and then start a program that can make use of the keyboard
[01:30] <oneman> I've only used a generic akai drum machine pad thing... with hydrogen drum machine and jack and ardour
[01:30] <erichammond> oneman: I'm lost at the "plug in" point.  Not sure if I have to get a special audio card with MIDI support that works with Ubuntu.
[01:30] <oneman> qjackctl
[01:30] <oneman> is it not usb?
[01:31] <erichammond> oneman: If that works, I could buy a MIDI to USB cable.  Or perhaps we should get a more modern keyboard.
[01:31] <oneman> Heres the basic info, you use qjackctl gui program to launch/start/stop jackd, you use ardour for recording/playback, and then whatever other programs to work with the midi keyboard / drum machine etc
[01:32] <oneman> yeah, midi to usb cable sounds good to me
[01:32] <oneman> anything recent will be midi via usb tho
[01:32] <oneman> let me ask you another thing about the cloud, I could have shot myself in the foot here but luckily I had only messed with the instance for about an hour
[01:32] <erichammond> Thanks.  I took us offtopic, but it's a slow channel.
[01:33] <oneman> So, I loaded up that AMI, it had EBS as / , so I expected if I terminated the instance that I would still have my ebs volume
[01:33] <oneman> but it got deleted when I terminated!
[01:33] <oneman> How do I clone it or something ?
[01:33] <erichammond> terminate: you lose any volumes that EC2 created for you automatically on startup
[01:33] <erichammond> stop: all the volumes are kept.
[01:34] <oneman> But if the volume was not created by ec2 and I terminate it still sticks right?
[01:34] <erichammond> right
[01:34] <oneman> could I snapshot the volume, then restore it to another volume in order to "copy" it?
[01:35] <erichammond> There is an override option that goes either way.
[01:35] <oneman> where is this over ride :!
[01:35] <erichammond> Check out #2 in http://alestic.com/2010/01/ec2-instance-locking
[01:37] <erichammond> Yes, you can snapshot the root EBS volume, register it as an AMI, and start a new instance from that.
[01:37] <erichammond> It is recommended that you initiate the snapshot while the instance is stopped to reduce risk of file system inconsistencies.
[01:37] <oneman> ok great
[01:37] <oneman> thats really what I want
[01:38] <erichammond> There is an API / command line that does all of this for you (including stopping/starting the instance)
[01:38] <erichammond> er, does all of this through registering the AMI.  It does not start a new instance.
[01:38] <oneman> glad I figured this one out before setting up my environment
[01:38] <oneman> hehe
[01:39] <erichammond> I still recommend starting from a fresh public AMI and running an automated script to set up your software and configuration whenever this approach might work.
[01:39] <erichammond> This lets you keep up with the latest AMIs and makes it easier to switch to new OS releases as they come out.
[01:40] <erichammond> In place upgrades are supposed to work, but I almost always have issues.
[01:40] <erichammond> I also recommend keeping your data on a separate EBS volume.
[01:41] <oneman> lemme ask you this, I set myself up a development server at home, also 10.10, and except for the programs I compiled myself (which are the ones I'm writing anyway), I installed a load of dependancies (luckily all came from standard ubuntu repos as well), whats the easiest way to just clone this list of packages, so I don't have to just try to compile and see what I'm missing 10 times over  ( and also have an exact knowled
[01:41] <oneman> ge of my actual dependencies )
[01:42] <oneman> All my usage of the cloud so far has been through engineyard's sort of web interface to ec2
[01:43] <oneman> so thats why I'm kind of half way on my cloud knowledge
[01:45] <erichammond> oneman: I think I've used this in the past: dpkg --get-selections
[01:45] <oneman> is it feasable to mount /home as your seperate ebs volume
[01:45] <erichammond> then on the target machine : dpkg --set-selections < OUTPUTFROMABOVE ; apt-get dselect-upgrade
[01:45] <oneman> or do you reccomend a /data or /app
[01:46] <erichammond> oneman: Yes.  I mount an EBS volume on, say, /vol then mount --bind directories from there over top of /home, /etc/lib/mysql, /etc/log/mysql, etc.
[01:47] <oneman> ok
[01:47] <erichammond> See: http://ec2ebs-mysql.notlong.com
[01:48] <oneman> I'm a postgresql user ;p
[01:48] <erichammond> oneman: See that article for the principles involved.
[01:48] <erichammond> in moving data around on EBS and mounting it back.
[01:48] <oneman> ok thanks alot
[01:49] <oneman> this is all exactly the information I needed
[02:01] <oneman> 2 upgraded, 1267 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[02:01] <oneman> Need to get 919MB of archives.
[02:01] <oneman> After this operation, 2,980MB of additional disk space will be used.
[02:01] <oneman> exciting!
[02:01] <oneman> haha
[03:39] <mwhudson> it seems that starting ami-ec1aea85 (today's 64 bit instance store in us-east-1) on an m1.xlarge instance doesn't work very well
[03:40] <mwhudson> [1122470.505234] Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init!
[03:40] <mwhudson> in the console outptu
[03:40] <erichammond> mwhudson: Please submit a bug report in launchpad.net
[03:40] <mwhudson> erichammond: which project?
[03:44] <mwhudson> ah ubuntu-on-ec2 i guess
[03:45] <mwhudson> ah bah, the second one i tried worked fine
[03:45] <mwhudson> yay reliability :(
[03:45] <flaccid> you could still raise the bug as intermittant and show the whole console output
[03:46] <mwhudson> yeah
[06:14] <oneman> ok so I use a public ami, then I snapshot the ebs vol, create a new volume from that, attach that to the original instance (when it was stopped) and it won't boot
[06:14] <oneman> what noobie mistake am I making
[06:39] <oneman> I set it to /dev/sda instead of /dev/sda1
[06:40] <oneman> hard to believe it let me shoot myself in the foot like that ;p
[08:05] <ubuntucloud845> hello
[08:05] <ubuntucloud845> can i auto back up file server to another server
[08:05] <ubuntucloud845> same ubunto 10.10
[11:47] <superxgl> hi all, i used hybirdfox, and my image is based on i386, but why hybirdfox shows the architecture is X86_64??
[12:07] <flaccid> superxgl: check the api
[12:07] <TeTeT> superxgl: maybe it has been uploaded as x86_64, check the output of euca-describe-images for that image
[12:10] <superxgl> IMAGE   eri-89321725    centos-ramdisk-buket/initrd.img-2.6.24-19-xen.manifest.xml      admin   available       public          x86_64  ramdisk                instance-store
[12:10] <superxgl> IMAGE   emi-CD7E14B8    centos-image-buket/centos.5-3.x86.img.manifest.xml     admin    available       public          x86_64  machine eki-27E215E0    eri-89321725    instance-store
[12:10] <superxgl> IMAGE   eki-27E215E0    centos-kernel-buket/vmlinuz-2.6.24-19-xen.manifest.xml admin    available       public          x86_64  kernel                  instance-store
[12:11] <superxgl> oh, what happened?
[12:11] <superxgl> i used the eucalyptus's image
[12:11] <TeTeT> superxgl: it's been stored as x86_64 as the output says
[12:12] <superxgl> why? but my image is i386
[12:12] <TeTeT> but should be not a problem, I'd continue testing if I where you
[12:12] <flaccid> thats what it was registered as
[12:12] <TeTeT> superxgl: when you upload the image you can specify which architecture it is
[12:12] <superxgl> hmm..
[12:12] <superxgl> i have to do this ?
[12:13] <superxgl> i follwed the guideline and it did not say that
[12:13] <TeTeT> superxgl: if it comes from the image store and you think it's an error, please file a bug in Launchpad against the image store
[12:13] <TeTeT> superxgl: which guideline?
[12:14] <superxgl> http://open.eucalyptus.com/wiki/EucalyptusInstallationSource_v2.0
[12:15] <superxgl> but when i loged in the instance ,  "uname -a" shows that it is i386
[12:16] <flaccid> sure thats because the kernel is i386
[12:16] <flaccid> the image was registered as x86_64 in the api
[12:16] <superxgl> hmm...
[12:17] <superxgl> flaccid: so where to check the api?
[12:19] <superxgl> TeTeT:  when i upload the image how to specify the architecture ? sry, im new to this
[12:19] <flaccid> superxgl: http://open.eucalyptus.com/wiki/Euca2oolsUsingOverview_v1.3 http://open.eucalyptus.com/wiki/Euca2oolsImageManagement_v1.3
[12:22] <superxgl> im checking now
[12:42] <superxgl> oh, i found the problem as "euca-bundle-image --help" shows :
[12:42] <superxgl> -r, --arch                      Target architecture for the image ('x86_64' or 'i386' default: 'x86_64').
[12:43] <flaccid> right
[12:43] <flaccid> and keep in mind euca-register
[12:43] <superxgl> i will ..tnx very much for all of ur help :)
[12:43] <flaccid> np
[13:07] <kim0> Hi folks, any help answering questions on the forums is appreciated http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=392
[13:26] <willem> I want to create a tar.gz of some directories in an S3 bucket. I have got that mounted using s3fs. And it seems to go fine, however after some time it fails with the following message: gzip: stdout: No space left on device
[13:45] <kim0> willem: seems like your output directory has run out of space
[13:46] <willem> @kim8 it is an s3 bucket, which I do have write access to...
[13:47] <willem> I am just thinking... I might be going over the maximum file size....
[13:49] <kim0> willem: why don't you create the tgz file locally .. then upload that
[13:49] <willem> Because all the data is already on the S3, lots of small files...
[13:50] <willem> That is why I want a tar. To be able to download and verify the download easily.
[13:51] <kim0> so, you have many little files on S3, you want to compress those files into a tar file that is written to local disk ?
[13:54] <kim0> willem: ^
[13:59] <kim0> is walrus throughput as slow as 5MB/s ?
[14:05] <willem> No, I want to compress (or at least tar them) into one file. So that other people can download it from s3.
[14:31] <kim0> willem: I would suggest compressing them into a local .tar.gz file first, then uploading that to S3 as a second step
[14:32] <willem> kim0: ok, currently trying zip using a split at 4gig. If that doesn't work, I will try it your way :)
[14:32] <willem> thanks for the help!
[16:58] <elasticdog> possibly a stupid question, but can you use `euca_conf` to set arbitrary variable values?
[16:58] <elasticdog> it seems like there are flags for setting a few specific things, and --name to read any variable's value, but how would you set something like MAX_CORES...just add it by hand?