[14:47] <lordjj> Hey guys, this isn't Ubuntu related but I just want to ask someone from Canada, I hope you don't mind answering :/
[14:47] <lordjj> I'm not from Canada, but from the US, and I'm trying to get some info about pursuing a Master's Degree in Computer Science or Computer Engineering. I've noticed for example that the website of University of Toronto shows 2 different tuitions -domestic and local. As a US citizen do I get any benefits? Or am I bound to the harsh "International" fees?
[14:54] <lordjj> Bob ^
[14:54] <lordjj> http://paste.ubuntu.com/847311/
[15:12] <dscassel> lordjj: You're almost certainly an international student.
[15:13] <dscassel> There may be bursaries or scholarships, though.
[15:13] <lordjj> hm
[15:14] <dscassel> (You're international 'cuz you haven't paid federal or provincial taxes. Canadian universities are somewhat subsidized (tho not as much as they'd like)


[15:34] <mup> Issue snapcraft#4442 closed: running snapcraft for the first time on debian12 <Bug> <Created by yvs2014> <Closed by yvs2014> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/issues/4442>


[10:27] <ttx> cjwatson: I CCed you on the server boot testing thread... there is a worrying tendency on /some/ servers to not display anything at all on console (no login prompt). I'll have fader do another round making sure splash is disabled, but do you have any idea where it could come from ?
[10:31] <slangasek> ttx: either plymouth hanging and failing to give back the console; or something preventing the 'filesystem' event from being emitted, blocking any of the gettys from starting
[10:31] <ttx> slangasek: fader can ssh into them alright, fwiw
[10:32] <slangasek> that leaves option 1)
[10:32] <ttx> slangasek: looks like a display issue. Those servers pass all hw enablement tests, but that doesn't include a visual test
[10:33] <slangasek> do VT switches work?
[10:34] <ttx> slangasek: I'd say no, based on fader's limited description. I suggest we coordinate some time with him to clearly debug that
[10:34] <ttx> I've not reproduced on my hardware
[10:35] <ttx> slangasek: would anything be sensitive to the type of graphics card on the server ?
[10:35] <slangasek> possible, but unlikely
[10:35] <slangasek> it might be sensitive to the disk layout, or whether fsck was called during boot
[10:36] <ttx> I'm pretty sure he runs the same test on the server that work and those that fail.
[10:36] <slangasek> there's mounting evidence that fsck-on-boot breaks plymouth+mountall interaction quite badly; I still haven't had time to reproduce this, but need to in the next day or so
[10:36] <slangasek> right
[10:36] <slangasek> there might be a plain old race condition in there somewhere, too
[10:37] <ttx> Will gather more data with fader and potentially ping one of you guys when we get stuck
[10:37] <slangasek> ttx: in your local tests, are you booting w/o splash?
[10:38] <ttx> in my tests, yes. Fader's tests all failed to get anything on VT7 yesterday, but he pxebooted the installer and got "splash" on the kernel line at the end
[10:39] <ttx> I asked him to run without splash, but I don't think that will affect the lack on login prompt at the end, we had evidence of this issue elsewhere from someone trying out Beta2
[10:40] <ttx> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2010-April/004022.html
[10:40] <ttx> That's why I asked to do some testing on the hw enablement servers to get confirmation that it fails or confidence that it works
[10:41] <ttx> Let me sync with fader and get a proper bug report set up.
[10:42] <ttx> At that point we are both blind :)
[10:46] <ttx> slangasek: you might want to keep an eye on bug 557909, in case that's not already on your radar. Seem to be some race with LVM/mountall, I'm hitting it quite steadily on my workstation. Hitting M and mounting manually works.
[10:50] <ttx> bug 561390 seems to be the same LVM/mountall issue
[10:52] <slangasek> "I do an fsck on my root filesystem everytime, when booting (set by 'tune2fs -c 1')."
[10:52] <slangasek> well, no wonder I could never reproduce that bug :P
[10:52] <slangasek> (not the LVM/mountall one, a different one)
[10:52] <ttx> heh
[10:52] <ttx> the LVM thing is definitely a race, I win about half the time
[10:55] <slangasek> the comments in 557909 make no sense
[10:55] <slangasek> if you can reproduce this, can you grab a log of mountall --debug?
[10:56] <ttx> slangasek: how do you do that ?
[10:56] <slangasek> ttx: edit /etc/init/mountall.conf to add --debug and redirect output to a logfile under /dev
[10:56] <ttx> ok
[10:58] <ttx> I'll brb
[10:58] <slangasek> huh, I guess technically we don't need the redirect anymore, you can just pick it up from /var/log/boot.log instead now \o/
[11:08] <ttx> slangasek: log at chinstrap:~ttx/mountall.log
[11:09] <ttx> slangasek: want it attached to that bug ?
[11:09] <slangasek> probably to bug 561390
[11:09] <slangasek> the other one is mostly just noise
[11:09] <ttx> yes
[11:15]  * ttx can't seem to find back the error messages that were present in the log when he manually mounted /home
[11:15]  * ttx investigates again
[11:16]  * ttx grumbles and restarts
[11:40] <ttx> slangasek: done, that was a lot more painful than expected, sorry
[11:47] <slangasek> ttx: and /dev/cassini/cassini-home exists?
[11:48] <slangasek> ttx: I think we need a udev log to go with this, but I'm not sure the right way to grab the log of the udev bits we need
[11:52] <slangasek> oh, 554737 is awesome, plymouth and mountall are deadlocked because they're both in a blocking write
[12:05] <slangasek> also: memory leaks
[12:37] <ttx> slangasek: lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 33 2010-04-13 12:37 /dev/cassini/cassini-home -> /dev/mapper/cassini-cassini--home
[15:00] <NCommander> to any RM around: we're going to push a fix for OOO on ARM to a PPA (we're not 100% sure its going to work due the extreme build times involved). Is there an issue if we copy OOo from the devirtualized PPA to the main archive?
[15:07] <pitti> NCommander: that's done with security all the time, should work
[15:07] <NCommander> pitti: right, just wanted to clear it by RM since my PPA is going to be eating a buildd
[15:08] <NCommander> pitti: alternatively, it might just be worth uploading to the archive properly since the OOo build for ARM is fairly stale and not supportable, so I can't see us being much worse off if we break it more (at least it builds in that case ;-))
[15:19] <jdstrand> NCommander: if this is supposed to go to -security, be sure to build without -proposed and -updates. other than that, you mentioned it is not a virtual ppa, so it should be ok
[15:19] <jdstrand> NCommander: also, if it goes to -security, you may want to communicate with a member of the security team ;)
[15:19] <NCommander> jdstrand: thanks, just wanted to check that this was OK
[15:19] <NCommander> jdstrand: its not for security
[15:20]  * jdstrand nods
[15:20] <jdstrand> NCommander: ubuntu-security-proposed and ubuntu-mozilla-security are two PPAs that we do this sort of thing with all the time
[15:21] <jdstrand> NCommander: the only tricky part is when you do the pocket copy, everything goes to main, so you need to do a change-orverride on anything that shouldn't be in main
[15:21] <jdstrand> NCommander: this is a manual process, so providing that list to the AA that does the pocket copy is a very nice thing to do :)
[16:13] <lamont> so those ppa buildds will be right back.  just fyi
[16:14] <ttx> slangasek, cjwatson: the "no login prompt" server bug is bug 546743
[16:15] <ttx> all spottings of that issue so far involve ATi ES1000
[16:17] <ttx> cjwatson: I was wondering if setting nomodeset for server on RC would make sense if we can't workaround this by any other way.
[16:17] <ttx> that would defuse the "you broke my server boot for fancy graphics I don't care about" argument
[21:05] <slangasek> NCommander: what's the point of using a PPA instead of doing the build in the archive directly, though?  Doesn't seem to save any build time, and costs archive admin time later to copy it
[21:08] <NCommander> slangasek: the fix isn't fully tested due to three days of OOo build time. I'm personally not diffed either way, but there was concern that by doing an OOo upload, we can remove the working but stale binaries.
[21:12] <slangasek> ah
[22:08] <lamont> oh hai.  mucking about with ppc for a few minutes
[22:31] <lamont> and ppc is back to the normal fun


[12:57] <Innatech> Hi! Is there a channel for Ubuntu system/network admins to use for discussion & collaboration?
[12:59] <maxamillion> Innatech: not to my knowledge, could be something to be brought up before the IRC council about creating though
[12:59] <Innatech> How would one go about doing that? Is there a wiki page I should go read?
[01:00] <maxamillion> Innatech: no, i can email the other ops on the mailing list and see if we can get a vote on it
[01:00] <nalioth> would that be #ubuntu-bofh-lair, or something like that?
[01:01] <Innatech> Probably in spirit only. :)
[01:01] <nalioth> just think of a good name for the channel, (try not to confuse anyone into thinking canonical employees are in it) and go for it
[01:02] <nalioth> no email needed
[01:02] <Innatech> But it would be nice to have a place to ask questions about server oriented activities, network management and planning, related discussion, etc.
[01:02] <nalioth> just park the !CoC in the topic and be familiar with all the !guidelines and such
[01:02] <Innatech> Yeah, not a bad idea. Still, it seemed like a decent idea to offer up to the powers that be first.
[01:02] <nalioth> Innatech: go for it
[01:03] <Innatech> mmK.
[01:03] <maxamillion> nalioth: oh ... ok
[01:03] <nalioth> #ubuntu-server-administrators or something?
[01:03] <Innatech> yeah, I think that feels about right.
[01:03] <nalioth> #ubuntu-server-wranglers?
[01:03] <Innatech> hehe.
[01:04] <nalioth> as i said, try not to make a confusing channel name
[01:04] <PuMpErNiCkLe> #ubuntu-bofh would be easy to remember. :)
[01:04] <Innatech> maybe #ubuntu-server-admin (to imply both "administrator" and "administration.")
[01:05] <maxamillion> uhmm... this is too cool: http://www.linutop.com/
[01:06] <nalioth> so long as you run it according to the guidelines, you'll be fine
[01:06] <Innatech> I should read them again.
[01:06] <nalioth> !guidelines > Innatech
[01:06] <Innatech> thanks.
[01:06] <gouki> Seems a very good idea. (=
[01:08] <Innatech> Hopefully people will find it useful. I enjoy working with LTS very much.
[01:14] <gouki> maxamillion: That Linutop is pretty cool!
[01:15] <maxamillion> gouki: i thought so :)
[01:16] <Burgwork> there are lots of cool thin clients
[01:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> Innatech, what chanel name did you go with?
[01:44] <gouki> #ubuntu-server-admin
[01:52] <Innatech> yep.
[01:53] <Burgwork> ubuntu channels tend to be targets
[01:53] <Burgwork> do you have admins for that channel yet?
[01:53] <Burgwork> if not, I will happily step up
[01:55] <Innatech> Not yet. I'm relatively new to FreeNode, you'd be welcome.
[01:56] <gouki> I'm not part of the IRC Team, but if you need any help I wouldn't mind either.
[02:00] <Innatech> Well, I don't think we need to worry about that unless the Ubuntu team wants to take it over, in which case I'd get out of the way. Heh.
[02:00] <nalioth> you just jumped into "the Ubuntu team", Innatech
[02:00] <nalioth> welcome
[02:02] <Innatech> Thanks!
[02:11] <Tm_T> someone should have backlog about that
[02:12] <democracy> hi, i am being harrased by LjL in #ubuntu+1
[02:12] <LjL> democracy: hi, i am ljl
[02:12] <Tm_T> democracy: good
[02:13] <democracy> LjL: hi, stop harassing me please
[02:13] <Kamping_Kaiser> whats happening?
[02:13] <PriceChild> democracy, you were offtopic for the channel...
[02:13] <democracy> PriceChild: so was every body else
[02:13] <democracy> PriceChild: he singled me out for no reason
[02:13] <PriceChild> and that makes it right?
[02:13] <Tm_T> oh boy...
[02:13] <PriceChild> democracy, it was a friendly suggestion to get on topic.
[02:13] <LjL> (political troll)  [02:07:52]  <-- god has left this channel (requested by LjL: "You should have known better, bye").      [02:08:14]  <LjL> democracy: want one? :)      [02:08:21]  <democracy> LjL: what?    [02:08:30]  <LjL> democracy: funny way to say "stop the topic"    [02:09:12]  <democracy> LjL: what?    [02:11:55]  <LjL> democracy, nevermind, just remember this channel is for talking about ubuntu and not politics and such. even if replying to someone
[02:13] <LjL> else.
[02:14] <LjL> so, i think this is either a misunderstanding, or you're a troll.
[02:14] <LjL> if one asked me, i'd say you're a troll, but then who am i to say.
[02:14] <democracy> LjL: so everyone who disagrees with you is a troll?
[02:14] <democracy> LjL: what a way to run a channel.
[02:14] <nalioth><PHONE_NUMBER> 19:07 < democracy> god made george bush president. :)                 <<< off topic for #ubuntu-*
[02:14] <LjL> people who employ strawman arguments are trolls.
[02:14] <apokryphos> democracy: please relax. No-one is going to take you seriously if you're going to be abrasive.
[02:14] <LjL> now, stop this discussion. thank you.
[02:15] <Tm_T> (:
[02:15] <Tm_T> kids
[02:15] <PriceChild> Its over
[02:15] <nalioth> whew
[02:15] <PriceChild> note +1 if you didn't see
[02:15] <Tm_T> hey, back to my issue, anyone has backlog about me being removed from here?
[02:15] <LjL> banned from +1 due to insulting me
[02:15] <PriceChild> Tm_T, i'll check
[02:16] <apokryphos> Tm_T: removed?
[02:16] <Tm_T> PriceChild: thanks
[02:16] <nalioth> LjL: no. he's banned for off topicity and non-CoC behaviour
[02:16] <LjL> he's banned for whatever you say he's banned :)
[02:16] <apokryphos> Tm_T: another victim of Hobbsee!
[02:17] <apokryphos> Tm_T: you can check the bantracker: just /msg ubotu btlogin
[02:17] <Tm_T> a'ha
[02:17] <Tm_T> well, anyway, kick me if you want but please DONT remove, I see nothing when that happens
[02:18] <Tm_T> and rather just slap
[02:18] <Tm_T> being removed/kicked isn't funny joke anymore
[02:18] <Tm_T> oh well...
[02:19] <nalioth> Tm_T: talk to hobbsee
[02:19] <Tm_T> I will ] ;=
[02:19] <Tm_T> I understand it well if someone get fun out of it, but I have my past etc (:
[02:20] <LongPointyStick> what's this now?
[02:21] <Tm_T> LongPointyStick: make it short, don't remove, it's not fun
[02:21] <Tm_T> s/make/making
[02:22] <LjL> LongPointyStick: basically, just kick him repeatedly, he's got autorejoin and won't care, but don't remove him :P
[02:22] <Tm_T> LjL: autorejoin? what's that?
[02:23] <LjL> ok, well, just kick mc44 when i'm not then
[02:24] <LongPointyStick> LjL: heh.
[02:27] <LongPointyStick> Tm_T: it's not really nice to kick when you'r not there, anyway
[02:27] <Tm_T> that too
[02:28] <LjL> well, the server will refuse to do that anyway, usually
[02:30] <LjL> geese...
[02:31] <LjL> i knew it was coming, but was busy checking if there were bots in -unregged. gah. should learn to do first things first
[02:32] <LongPointyStick> bot attack?
[02:34] <LjL> big one
[02:34] <Tm_T> LongPointyStick: about kick, atleast I see the reason
[02:35] <LongPointyStick> Tm_T: you shoul dbe able to see the remove reason too,  you know
[02:35] <LjL> folks
[02:35] <Tm_T> LongPointyStick: should, but I dont :)
[02:35] <LjL> unless i'm reading this very wrong, these bots knew how to dodge the throttling
[02:35] <LjL> and they knew it well, even
[02:35] <PriceChild> Isn't there a way you can set them up not to follow redirects?
[02:36] <PriceChild> I'm sure I heard someone mention that a while back.
[02:36] <LjL> PriceChild: yeah, but the point is not that they didn't end up in -unregged
[02:36] <LjL> PriceChild: the point is that there was way more than 5 of them
[02:36] <LjL> (or whatever the limit was)
[02:37] <PriceChild> That's what I mean, setting lots to join, but only those got through and none of the blocked would follow the redirect... or is disabling redirects impossible?
[02:37] <LjL> PriceChild, no, it's quite possible to disable them
[02:37] <LjL> but if it were as you said, *only five bots* would get in
[02:37] <LjL> which is usually the case
[02:37] <LjL> this time, it looks like they were way more than that
[02:38] <Kamping_Kaiser> LongPointyStick, hi
[02:38] <LjL> which means they knew how long to wait, i suppose
[02:38] <LongPointyStick> heya Kamping_Kaiser!
[02:38] <Tm_T> LongPointyStick: anyway, no hard feelings, just got a bit scared :)
[02:38] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[02:38] <LjL> yes, indeed, they joined at a distance of some seconds, each group of five
[02:38] <LongPointyStick> Tm_T: heh.  i dont tend to kick now anyway
[04:11] <Amaranth> Hobbsee: he doesn't have any interest in going
[04:11] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: i see that..
[04:15] <Hobbsee> sigh
[04:17] <Pelo> yes ?
[04:17] <Hobbsee> Pelo: i'm not trying to abuse people.  i'm trying to get them help in a way that they can actually use it.
[04:17] <Hobbsee> and not disrupt the rest of the channel while doing so
[04:17] <Pelo> I think kicks and bans should be reserved for ppl who are out of line
[04:18] <Hobbsee> people who wont obey instructions kind of do fit that...
[04:18] <Hobbsee> and the reason i used a kick, not remove, was that some poeple arent actually seeing what hte remove message is
[04:18] <Hobbsee> whereas they are seeing a kick one
[04:18] <Hobbsee> you'll note that that was a banforward, not a ban.
[04:18] <Pelo> you need to think in terms of noobs
[04:19] <Hobbsee> and now he's cursing at me.  woo.
[04:19] <Hobbsee> i do.  trust me
[04:19] <Pelo> guess why ?
[04:20] <Tm_T> hmm
[04:20] <Pelo> Hobbsee,  I'm not calling you an abusive op,  I just advocating the gentle approach
[04:20] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: your opinion?
[04:20] <Tm_T> Hobbsee: silly hat you got
[04:20] <Hobbsee> Pelo: that was said to him >4 times.  at which point i gave up
[04:20] <Amaranth> Hobbsee: I would have just outright muted or banned him
[04:21] <Pelo> he couldhave been easily ignored,  he wasn't disruptive
[04:21] <Hobbsee> didnt appear to be wanting to say anything to do with ubuntu, either
[04:21] <Amaranth> Hobbsee was being gentle. :)
[04:21] <Hobbsee> oh, he only got told three times where to go.  my bad.
[04:22] <Hobbsee> Pelo: usually they would have just gotten banned for talking rubbish after the first op call
[04:22] <Hobbsee> that *was* the gentle, give the benefit of the doubt approach
[04:22] <Hobbsee> we have multiple trolls who will go and behave like that, just to get kicked.
[04:24] <Hobbsee> Tm_T: a guy in ubuntu not making much sense, saying nothing on topic, so i banforwarded him to #ubuntu-tr where he should be able to find what he's looking for, in his native language
[04:24] <Hobbsee> not many people in there though, i note
[04:25] <Tm_T> I see, no harm done IMO
[04:25] <Pelo> the guy was speaking english,  broken as it was  just tought the ban was too much
[04:26] <Pelo> damit
[04:26] <Amaranth> ...
[04:26] <Pelo> just realised I downloaded a french movie with subtitles ,  and I speak french
[04:27] <Amaranth> Uh
[04:27] <Pelo> totaly unrelated,
[04:27] <Pelo> I just can't remove the subs
[04:27] <Amaranth> Take the discussion of illegal activities elsewhere.
[04:27] <Pelo> done
[04:27] <Hobbsee> sigh
[04:28] <Kamping_Kaiser> :|
[04:30] <Tm_T> aah, almost messed two nicks, pelo and peno
[05:13] <Amaranth> !ati
[05:13] <ubotu> To install the Ati/NVidia drivers for your video card, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto
[05:13] <Amaranth> !ati-#ubuntu-effects
[05:13] <ubotu> Use the "fglrx" driver if you have a Radeon < 9000, X** series or a card with TV-Out capabilities: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/ATI - Use the "ati" driver for the Radeon < 8500
[05:14] <Amaranth> !-ati_#ubuntu-effects
[05:14] <Amaranth> !-ati-#ubuntu-effects
[05:14] <ubotu> ati-#ubuntu-effects aliases: fglrx-#ubuntu-effects - added by LjL on 2007-02-02 21:29:16
[05:15] <Amaranth> !no ati-#ubuntu-effects is <reply> Use the "fglrx" driver if you have a Radeon newer than an X800 or want TV-Out capabilities: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/ATI - Use the "ati" driver for everything else.
[05:15] <ubotu> I'll remember that Amaranth
[05:15] <Amaranth> !nvidia
[05:15] <ubotu> To install the Ati/NVidia drivers for your video card, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto
[05:15] <Amaranth> !nvidia-#ubuntu-effects
[05:15] <ubotu> Use the NVidia driver and XGL, aiglx is not supported yet. Driver howto: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/Nvidia
[05:15] <Amaranth> !-nvidia-#ubuntu-effects
[05:15] <ubotu> nvidia-#ubuntu-effects has no aliases - added by Seveas on 2006-07-03 10:39:58
[05:15] <elkbuntu> heh.. i have no clue what my card is newer or older than
[05:15] <Amaranth> ok that one i can excuse
[05:16] <Amaranth> !forget nvidia-#ubuntu-effects
[05:16] <ubotu> I'll forget that, Amaranth
[05:16] <Amaranth> elkbuntu: better than the old factoid :)
[05:16] <elkbuntu> it's still alien speak to me
[05:17] <Amaranth> these are advanced users
[05:17] <Amaranth> they're trying to setup compiz or beryl on edgy
[05:17] <PuMpErNiCkLe> *cough*
[05:17] <Kamping_Kaiser> heh. doesnt folllow
[05:17] <Kamping_Kaiser> *s=l
[05:17] <Kamping_Kaiser> *s-l
[05:18] <Amaranth> elkbuntu: do you have better text? :)
[05:19] <elkbuntu> Amaranth, how about... 'Beryl is cracktastic and will dessicate your eyeballs with extended exposure... RUN, RUN FOR YOUR LIFE'
[05:19] <elkbuntu> :
[05:20] <Amaranth> hey now :)
[05:20] <PuMpErNiCkLe> +1 :)
[05:20] <tonyyarusso> Uh oh - it's an all-out sane people vs. beryl devs war!
[05:21] <elkbuntu> my point was... have a guide that lets someone know where their card lies in ATI history
[05:21] <elkbuntu> i've got no clue where my 200m lies
[05:21] <Amaranth> neither do i
[05:21] <Amaranth> but i know 3D is broken on it
[05:22] <elkbuntu> virtually yeah
[05:25] <elkbuntu> it's one of the most common card of off-the-shelf laptops of around the 2yr-present age range too. acer, compaq/hp and toshiba loved them for a while
[05:26] <elkbuntu> not sure if they still do
[05:26] <Amaranth> nah, they ship newer ones now
[05:26] <Amaranth> X1000 and junk, iirc
[05:27] <elkbuntu> which might get to my area in 6mths time
[05:27] <Amaranth> at least your 200m has open source 2D support
[05:27] <Amaranth> i don't think those do
[05:27] <elkbuntu> heh
[05:28] <elkbuntu> anyway, back to my point.. there needs to be a genealogical map of them so people can check, especially when they know what they have now, not what came before or after ;)
[05:29] <Amaranth> elkbuntu: sounds like a fun project for you ;)
[05:29] <elkbuntu> oh hell no
[05:30] <elkbuntu> i've got enough on my plate at the moment
[06:34] <DBO> hi elkbuntu
[06:34] <elkbuntu> hi DBO
[06:34] <DBO> how are you?
[06:34] <elkbuntu> pissed off at the moment
[06:34] <DBO> why pissed off?
[06:35] <elkbuntu> recent events, and people dredging up past events and creating conspiracies around them
[06:35] <DBO> lets write an open letter to the world
[06:35] <DBO> Dear World,
[06:35] <DBO> Quit sucking
[06:35] <DBO> signed,
[06:35] <DBO> DBO
[06:35] <elkbuntu> heh
[06:36] <DBO> actually
[06:36] <DBO> signed,
[06:36] <DBO> Jason
[06:37] <tonyyarusso> A name?  Are we allowed to have those?  Oh wait...
[06:37] <DBO> indeed
[06:38] <Kamping_Kaiser> tonyyarusso, 'name' is a synonym for 'nick' in RL
[06:49] <ubotu> In #ubuntu-offtopic, Gus said: !anything is quite amusing.
[07:50] <tonyyarusso> Ubyebyetu ?
[07:59] <elkbuntu> ?
[08:00] <tonyyarusso> Apparently Ubugtu has left us, which I wasn't aware of until recently
[08:00] <tonyyarusso> anyway, I'm sleeping, so I'll leave it to you to hunt as much detail as you care for tonight
[08:01] <elkbuntu> ubugtu didnt leave, she married ubotu and took his name :
[08:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> poor ubotu - whats his new name?
[08:03] <elkbuntu> ubotu is now Mr Ubotu and Mrs Ubotu (maiden: Ubugtu)
[08:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> well, time to be good again ;)
[08:04] <Madpilot> Seveas, Ubugtu has merged with ubotu, evidently?
[08:06] <Seveas> yes
[08:06] <elkbuntu> Seveas, did you announce to the irc list?
[08:07] <Seveas> elkbuntu, not yet, wanted to see first whether it worked good enough to keep this way
[08:07] <Madpilot> @lart the lack of information from Sev
[08:08] <Madpilot> cool, those still work :)
[08:08] <Seveas> of course
[08:08] <Seveas> no functionality was lost :)
[08:09] <Madpilot> @calc 3*5
[08:09] <Madpilot> hmm... @calc used to work
[08:09] <Seveas> @load Math
[08:09] <ubotu> OK
[08:10] <Madpilot> @calc 3*5
[08:10] <ubotu> 15
[08:10] <Madpilot> thnx Seveas
[09:43] <ubotu> In #ubuntu, Yeti___ said: !x is not going to help anything.
[10:27] <Madpilot> morning mneptok
[10:30] <mneptok> heya
[10:34] <Kamping_Kaiser> are /ignore lists client or server side?
[10:34] <mneptok> client
[10:34] <Kamping_Kaiser> hm. wonder why xchat cleared it then
[10:34] <Kamping_Kaiser> thanks
[10:37] <Madpilot> speaking of xchat - how come edgy's version seems to crash everytime I close it?
[10:41] <elkbuntu> well, i may have just successfully got myself outed from the LinuxChix community... we'll find out soon
[10:41] <mc44> o.O
[10:42] <mneptok> elkbuntu: toldya not to wear the strap-on
[10:42] <elkbuntu> someone brought up stephan's posts, and it ended up in a Greeristic feminist debate, so i left the channel saying 'i give up, i did not come for the feminism'. the AussieChix leader emailed me afterwards, so i've just replied in full, fact-by-fact detail what pissed me off
[11:20] <Seveaz> Long live openvpn
[11:20] <Seveaz> Finally IRC from work :)
[11:32] <jenda> neat ;)
[11:36] <elkbuntu> so, the aussiechix leader hasnt replied yet
[11:43] <mneptok> elkbuntu: she's probably busy castrating a man with a burning brassiere
[11:44] <elkbuntu> lol
[11:44] <mc44> 1coc-jbj | mneptok
[11:44] <mc44> doh
[11:44] <mc44> !coc-jbj | mneptok
[11:44] <ubotu> mneptok: a/s/l?
[11:44] <elkbuntu> i'm now intrigued as to how the hell that would go down
[11:44] <mneptok> ageless/neuter/RIGHT THE FUCK BEHIND YOU
[11:48] <jenda> O_O
[11:48] <jenda> !ohmy | mneptok
[11:48] <ubotu> mneptok: Please watch your language and keep this channel family friendly.

[11:56] <Kamping_Kaiser> rofl @ mneptok
[12:56] <Seveaz> No, that is not bad news :)
[12:56] <Seveaz> It just means that jono had some good points and we'll discuss it at UDS
[12:58] <elkbuntu> remember the list, dear
[12:59] <schwuk> my ubuntu member cloak appears to not be working. I am a member of the irc cloaks group.
[01:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> can we have a bot back in -au?
[02:11] <jenda> whee
[02:11] <jenda> effie_jayx: for one thing, I got it.
[02:11] <jenda> For another thing... I just got a huge, crazy huge box from Canonical.
[02:12] <effie_jayx> jenda,  :O
[02:12] <effie_jayx> box of???
[02:12] <effie_jayx> is the amount right? my coworker was having second thoughts on the crown-dollar convertion rate :S
[02:13] <jenda> effie_jayx: it's alright
[02:13] <jenda> unless of course you sent me more than you wanted to ;)
[02:13] <effie_jayx> I sent 25 dollars
[02:13] <effie_jayx> he said ti was 550 crowns
[02:14] <effie_jayx> *it
[02:14] <jenda> yeap, should be, approx
[02:14] <jenda> in fact, it's a bit less, even.
[02:15] <jenda> 525.902
[02:15] <jenda> he sent me 25 more than you gave him...
[02:15] <jenda> should I send him a few stickers? ;)
[02:18] <effie_jayx> nah... keep the change  ;)
[02:18] <effie_jayx> hehe
[02:20] <jenda> hehe :)
[02:20] <jenda> thanks.
[02:20] <effie_jayx> jenda,  I'm just amazed at how lucky I am... what are the chances of working with a guy that comes from your country... and think he was going to be the liason for the money transfer :D
[02:20] <jenda> indeed :)
[02:22] <jenda> effie_jayx: the production cost of the posters was 357.60 CZK, the shipping 170 = 527.60
[02:22] <jenda> effie_jayx: which means you donated over a dollar towards the cause ;)
[02:24] <effie_jayx> it's not like you can buy a coke then :S
[02:24] <elkbuntu> in .cz... it could be possible
[02:24] <effie_jayx> jenda,  how much is a coke there?
[02:25] <jenda> hmm
[02:25] <jenda> you won't buy a 2 liter bottle for 22 crowns, but prollly a glass.
[02:25] <jenda> You could buy two beers, though :)
[02:25] <jenda> and if it was my money, trust me, I would ;)
[02:25] <elkbuntu> you dont have cans or smaller bottles?
[02:26] <jenda> of course
[02:26] <jenda> the smaller bottles tend to be ridiculously expensive (usually 18 for 0.5l, while 28 is the price for 2l)
[02:27] <effie_jayx> funny how beer is always cheaper
[02:27] <effie_jayx> in my country beer is 3 for a dollar
[02:27] <jenda> This is the first time I got CD stands from shipit... neat ;)
[02:27] <jenda> effie_jayx: wooow, I'm moving.
[02:27] <jenda> :)
[02:28] <jenda> Venezuela?
[02:28] <effie_jayx> jenda,  probably your compatriota is here
[02:28] <effie_jayx> because of that same reason ... :D
[02:28] <jenda> hmm ;)
[02:28] <effie_jayx> jenda,  Venezuela... Maracaibo to be exact...
[02:29] <jenda> ok, ok, I could name your street and number, to be exact, but won't ;)
[02:30] <effie_jayx> hehe
[02:30] <effie_jayx> jenda,  it is a nice country. :D
[02:30] <jenda> Is it inappropriate to offer the shipit team a few stickers, just because they make me so happy? :)
[02:31] <elkbuntu> what did they make you happy with?
[02:31] <Seveaz> cds?
[02:31] <effie_jayx> elkbuntu,  you are breaking the CoC v2
[02:31] <effie_jayx> hehe
[02:31] <jenda> apart from the Edgy CDs they sent, the CD stands...
[02:31] <Kamping_Kaiser> Seveas, can we have a bot in -au?
[02:31] <jenda> ...and that they will send me a conference pack eventually.
[02:31] <effie_jayx> elkbuntu,  you summoned?
[02:31] <Seveaz> Hobbsee, do you read minds?
[02:31] <jenda> wow
[02:32] <elkbuntu> she must
[02:32] <Seveaz> * elkbuntu wonders where hobbsee is :-/ <-- a minute ago....
[02:32] <Seveaz> @join #ubuntu-au
[02:32] <Seveaz> @login
[02:32] <Seveaz> @join #ubuntu-au
[02:32] <Seveaz> meh, can't do it from this nick
[02:32] <jenda> Seveaz: how about we burn elkbuntu at a stake?
[02:32] <elkbuntu> :(
[02:32] <Kamping_Kaiser> :/
[02:32] <Seveaz> Kamping_Kaiser, file a bug on ubuntu-bots and I'll do it when home
[02:32] <elkbuntu> i will go cry now
[02:32] <jenda> that was definitely dark magic...
[02:32] <Kamping_Kaiser> Seveas, ok
[02:33] <Hobbsee> Seveaz: heh, of course.
[02:36] <effie_jayx> * effie_jayx draws a lightsaber to defend elkbuntu  <--------- gee how geeky did that sound ?
[02:37] <Kamping_Kaiser> *Real Men (TM)
[02:37] <elkbuntu> hehe, quite geeky, my knight in shimmery lycra :
[02:37] <Kamping_Kaiser> >.<
[02:38] <effie_jayx> elkbuntu,  ok... me in spandex ??? that tops jenda  topless
[02:38] <effie_jayx> by farrr
[02:38] <jenda> :-D
[02:39] <elkbuntu> jenda topless? where?
[02:39] <jenda> muhehe
[02:40] <effie_jayx> elkbuntu, that was yesterday...
[02:40] <elkbuntu> aww
[02:40] <elkbuntu> i missed it?
[02:42] <Seveaz> yes
[02:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> gnight all. have fun (as applicable)
[03:54] <gnomefreak> !xchedule
[03:54] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about xchedule - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[03:54] <gnomefreak> schedule
[03:54] <gnomefreak> !schedule
[03:54] <ubotu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
[03:55] <gnomefreak> hmmmmmm
[03:57] <Jucato> hmm?
[04:00] <effie_jayx> hmmm
[04:00] <mc44> mmm bop
[04:06] <mc44> ba ba ba dooo wop
[04:07] <effie_jayx> o lord :S
[04:07] <mc44> hehe
[04:17] <Seveaz> doobiedabadoooooowop
[04:19] <mc44> wah wah ooooooh
[04:19] <Hobbsee> oh dear....
[04:19] <effie_jayx> what's with today... :S
[04:19] <Seveaz> Hobbsee, no, that's not the right text
[04:19] <gnomefreak> ah i figured it out :(
[04:20] <Seveaz> what?
[04:21] <gnomefreak> ummm /msg ubotu schedule need to add a !
[04:22] <Hobbsee> Seveaz: :P
[04:23] <effie_jayx> Seveaz,  your altern nick reminds me of my workplace :S
[04:23] <effie_jayx> Seveaz, www.cevaz.org
[04:23] <effie_jayx> hehe
[04:25] <Seveaz> @help schedule
[04:25] <ubotu> schedule Retrieve the date/time of scheduled meetings in a specific timezone
[04:28] <Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
[04:28] <ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 29 Mar 06:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 08:00: Xubuntu | 30 Mar 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 02 Apr 06:00: Marketing Team | 03 Apr 01:00: Community question time | 03 Apr 21:00: Community Council
[04:29] <Seveaz> time for beer
[04:29] <Seveaz> bbl
[06:04] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: we are gonna see the masses on feisty complain that beryl/3d accel dont work
[06:05] <PriceChild> wb.... how do you mean?
[06:05] <Seveas> @join #ubuntu-au
[06:05] <Seveas> nalioth, pokepoke
[06:05] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: the new nvidia-glx drivers 97xx dont support gf4 anylonger
[06:06] <gnomefreak> they need to install legacy drivers and than need xgl for beryl
[06:06] <PriceChild> supposedly someone's had a force2 mx working on them which I found hilarious...
[06:06] <gnomefreak> since we dont have the "new" legacy drivers in repos like the beryl repos do
[06:06] <PriceChild> anyway... supposedly they're going to fix update-manager / restricted-manager so that people don't get broken on upgrades edgy -> feisty
[06:07] <gnomefreak> hmmmm let me ping mvo about his plans
[06:08] <Jucato> gnomefreak: if you find out anything, please do share. I'm affected by this :)
[06:08] <gnomefreak> ill let you know :)
[06:09] <Jucato> thanks :)
[06:09] <gnomefreak> but im assuming soon will change
[06:20] <PriceChild> +J pushed the netsplit into -unregged? :(
[06:21] <Seveas> @#$%^&*(
[06:21] <Seveas> nalioth, !!!
[06:21] <Seveas> I'm mlocking on -J again *NOW*
[06:22] <PriceChild> I'll +i in -unregged and kick with messages to rejoin #ubuntu ?
[06:22] <Seveas> set +f #ubuntu
[06:22] <PriceChild> ahh yeah
[06:26] <apokryphos> Seveas: please just relax
[06:26] <Seveas> apokryphos, no I won't
[06:26] <apokryphos> as I've said countless times before, and proved, a netsplit does NOT force anyone anywhere
[06:26] <Seveas> we've ben assured that +J won't fail with netsplits
[06:26] <apokryphos> only a chanserv death does, which happens very rarely.
[06:26] <Seveas> and apparently that's not true
[06:26] <apokryphos> Seveas: it must've been a server death then, obviously.
[06:27] <apokryphos> Seveas: you're completely wrong. I've seen +J work perfectly through countless netsplits
[06:28] <Seveas> Then what's the difference with this one?
[06:28] <apokryphos> a chanserv death?
[06:28] <apokryphos> or a general server one; even if it's temporarily. They're _very_ rare though.
[06:28] <Seveas> not rare enough imho
[06:29] <apokryphos> do you know how many months +J has been there?
[06:29] <Seveas> yes
[06:30] <Seveas> very rare is once a year, not once every few months
[06:30] <apokryphos> Seveas: we were told from the very beginning that server deaths happen every few months, when BearPerson was explaining +J and netsplits
[06:31] <Seveas> then I must have missed/misunderstood that part or I wouldn't have removed -J from the mlock
[06:31] <apokryphos> tbh I'm a little tired of this issue re-surfacing; perhaps I should just wait for the next meeting for us to discuss this.
[06:32] <Seveas> sounds like a plan
[06:32] <Seveas> when should we have a next meeting
[06:32] <Seveas> ?
[06:33] <apokryphos> when's UDS?
[06:33] <apokryphos> ubotu: uds
[06:33] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about uds - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[06:33] <Seveas> 6/11 apr.
[06:34] <apokryphos> probably a little time after that, I guess, so we'll have other stuff to discuss too
[06:36] <Amaranth> eh?
[06:36] <Amaranth> oh, i see
[06:36] <Amaranth> i thought you were saying june 11th or november 6th :)
[06:41] <Tm_T> hmm
[06:42] <gnomefreak> i dont see this comeing out good
[06:42] <gnomefreak> coming*
[06:43] <gnomefreak> anon is at it again i fear :(
[06:43] <PriceChild> where?
[06:43] <gnomefreak> #kubuntu
[06:43] <gnomefreak> im waiting and watching
[06:43] <gnomefreak> hes already pissed one person off
[07:11] <Seveas> @config plugins.LpLugin.UserList
[07:12] <Seveas> @config plugins.LpLogin.UserList
[07:12] <ubotu> /home/dennis/ubotu/conf/ubuntuops.conf
[07:12] <Seveas> @reload LpLogin
[07:12] <ubotu> OK
[07:12] <tonyyarusso> ?
[07:12] <Seveas> @list User
[07:12] <ubotu> capabilities, changename, hostmask, hostmask add, hostmask list, hostmask remove, identify, list, set password, set secure, stats, unidentify, unregister, username, and whoami
[07:12] <Seveas> @admin
[07:12] <Seveas> @list admin
[07:12] <ubotu> capability add, capability remove, channels, ignore add, ignore list, ignore remove, join, nick, and part
[07:13] <Seveas> @capability add
[07:13] <Seveas> @admin capability add
[07:13] <ubotu> (admin capability add <name|hostmask> <capability>) -- Gives the user specified by <name> (or the user to whom <hostmask> currently maps) the specified capability <capability>
[07:13] <Seveas> @admin capability add Seveaz owner
[07:41] <gouki> Seveas, ping
[07:41] <Seveas> gouki, ?
[07:42] <gouki> Seveas, can I PVT?
[07:42] <Seveas> no need to ask, that's always ok
[07:45] <mc44> :)
[08:01] <Seveas> @admin capability add Seveaz admin
[08:01] <Seveas> @part
[08:03] <PriceChild> Hehe what's with "Seveaz"? :)
[08:03] <Seveas> work nick
[08:03] <PriceChild> ah :)
[08:04] <Seveas> got openvpn working properly, so finally irc at work
[08:05] <apokryphos> irssi's only advantage that I'd ever miss: screen.
[08:05] <Seveas> indeed
[08:06] <apokryphos> just because of that I tried so hard to get used to it, but alas, I can never feel at home with it
[08:07] <apokryphos> Seveas: hm, so you won't be getting any more work done now, I guess? ;)
[08:07] <Seveas> heh
[08:07] <Seveas> they'll fire me if that happens
[08:07] <Seveas> but I'm doing some cool projects, so no chance of not doing work
[08:08] <apokryphos> what kind of stuff do you do?
[08:08] <Seveas> systems integration
[08:08] <Seveas> all kinds of srvices attached to one authentication database
[08:08] <Seveas> samba, imap, several webapps, jabber
[08:08] <apokryphos> big company?
[08:08] <Seveas> 500 people
[08:08] <Seveas> not too big
[08:08] <apokryphos> wow
[08:09] <apokryphos> depends on what you compare it to; exceeding the 'small business' barrier for sure
[08:10] <apokryphos> does it work exclusively with Linux, or is that just a part of it?
[08:11] <Seveas> next project will be migrating a few hundred windows workstations to Ubuntu
[08:11] <Seveas> so I don't want to get fired yet :)
[08:11] <apokryphos> sweet
[08:12] <apokryphos> was there any main selling point for them?
[08:12] <Seveas> "windows sucks"
[08:12] <Seveas> windows support is hard
[08:13] <apokryphos> I can't argue with their reasoning 8)
[08:13] <Seveas> obviously, neither can I
[08:13] <apokryphos> "Use Linux. Because Windows just sucks" :)
[08:14] <maxamillion> i think the biggest issue as of late in terms of support is IE7 .... it has caused more problems for my campus than anything I have ever seen
[08:14] <tonyyarusso> IE7 broke my Boy Scout Troop's web site
[08:14] <apokryphos> I don't think my Uni will be moving to ie7 for quite some time
[08:14] <maxamillion> It renders alot of their current "windows only" software useless becuase it some how breaks the ability to print
[08:14] <Burgwork> I got a lovely little present today: an unwanted Windows Vista laptop
[08:14] <tonyyarusso> I got a frantic tech support call from the current webmaster - "It broke" 'what'd you change?'  "Nothing"
[08:14] <Seveas> we use firefox/thunerbird :)
[08:14] <apokryphos> they do have firefox and opera hidden in the menus though, interestingly enough
[08:15] <tonyyarusso> Burgwork: How is hardware unwanted?  Wipe and install over!
[08:15] <maxamillion> apokryphos: yeah, we have firefox and some out dated version of netscape available as alternatives
[08:15] <apokryphos> Burgwork: any thoughts on vista?
[08:15] <maxamillion> apokryphos: i have a few but i'd rather not spam
[08:16] <Burgwork> tonyyarusso: I have been told that "the salesmen want a laptop for the road"
[08:16] <apokryphos> maxamillion: tell me in -offtopic then ;)
[08:16] <Burgwork> apokryphos: I hate it
[08:16] <tonyyarusso> Burgwork: Which presumably would have to work...so you're doing him a favor!
[08:16] <apokryphos> Burgwork: good points?
[08:17] <Burgwork> well, I plan to pull a "corporate IT" and yank their admin rights
[08:17] <apokryphos> I really need to try vista soon though so I can hate it properly :D
[08:17] <maxamillion> apokryphos: lol, meh ... they aren't anything you haven't read on osnews or slashdot already :/
[08:17] <Burgwork> given I know they want the laptop to play games on
[08:17] <Burgwork> apokryphos: the good points are that I can install ubuntu on it
[08:17] <maxamillion> apokryphos: i trouble shot a vista install and that's enough use for me to hate it properly ;)
[08:18] <apokryphos> yup, that's what I need 8)
[08:52] <ubotu> In ubotu, mergenc said: alsa is set up and seems to be working
[08:52] <apokryphos> ubotu: bot > mergenc
[08:53] <tonyyarusso> maxamillion: s/trouble// earlier and all would have been better
[09:00] <maxamillion> tonyyarusso: i'm sorry?
[09:00] <tallman> hello
[09:00] <tonyyarusso> maxamillion: Resulting in:  "I shot a Vista install"
[09:00] <maxamillion> tonyyarusso: ahhhh
[09:01] <tallman> how can I add ubotu to #ubuntu-ru ?
[09:02] <tallman> is it possible? I was sent here to ask this question
[09:03] <tonyyarusso> Seveas: ^^
[09:03] <PriceChild> tallman, ubotu has heavy load so you'll probably have to ask nalioth for his brother "ubot3"
[09:03] <PriceChild> but he seems to be away atm
[09:04] <apokryphos> grr, ubot3's down as well; first time I've seen that.
[09:05] <tallman> ok, thanks =) I see it takes more time to load, then before
[09:07] <apokryphos> there should be a direct ubotu clone coming soon, so stay tuned
[09:07] <tallman> what about translations for ubuntu bots?
[09:07] <apokryphos> channel-specific factoids are possible, but not everyone can be editors
[09:08] <apokryphos> tallman: the factoids are fully available in .db or web-listed format
[09:08] <apokryphos> feel free to use any/all of them
[09:08] <tallman> and how can I use them?
[09:09] <apokryphos> you would have to have your own supybot
[09:11] <tallman> and how do I make up a supybot?
[09:12] <apokryphos> install 'supybot', and check all the documentation at supybot.om
[09:12] <apokryphos> *supybot.com
[09:13] <apokryphos> it might be worth discussing this issue though; it would be nice to allow loco teams to have their own factoids; it's technically possible with Encyclopedia either by having a whole different database for the channel, or by just having the same database and channel-specific factoids
[09:13] <apokryphos> the former is probably to be preferred
[09:14] <apokryphos> some code would probably have to be added though to make editors for only specific factoid databases
[09:14] <apokryphos> hang on until Seveas returns
[09:18] <tallman> apokryphos: thank you for attention =)
[09:57] <Amaranth> @join #ubuntu-kernel
[10:05] <Seveas> it's not in there?!?
[10:14] <Amaranth> Seveas: nope
[11:12] <ubotu> In #ubuntu-offtopic, zany_zebra_ said: ubotu did! he is secretly a comedian name jose rodriguez.
[11:15] <LjL> Camaxtli: hello
[11:15] <Camaxtli> Hello
[11:16] <Camaxtli> I'd like the test now.
[11:16] <LjL> sure
[11:16] <LjL> join ##ljl please
[11:16] <ompaul> Camaxtli, join #ljl no
[11:16] <ompaul> now
[11:16] <ompaul> hehe
[11:16] <LjL> make it two ##'s
[11:16] <LjL> well, i can give people the test
[11:16] <LjL> but they need to follow the instructions first :PO
[11:17] <ompaul> guess that is true
[11:17] <LjL> Camaxtli: failed ;)
[11:17] <LjL> Camaxtli: make sure you reconnect your IRC client, after changing the port
[11:19] <LjL> Camaxtli: looks good now
[11:20] <Camaxtli> Indeed
[11:20] <Camaxtli> I wonder why I wasn't protected per default.
[11:20] <LjL> Camaxtli: well, i haven't yet seen *one* person saying "hey, the latest firmware update fixed it"
[11:20] <LjL> Camaxtli, because when Edgy came out, the devs didn't know about this
[11:21] <LjL> Feisty's IRC client will come with port 8001 by default
[11:21] <Camaxtli> I'm running feisty :p
[11:21] <LjL> oh? but you upgraded from edgy, surely?
[11:21] <Camaxtli> Nope, fresh install
[11:21] <LjL> hm, i really did believe 8001 would be default in feisty
[11:22] <Camaxtli> The problem might be that I copied my previous settings :
[11:22] <Camaxtli> :)
[11:22] <LjL> ah, i guess ;)
[11:22] <mc44> LjL: file a bug :)
[11:23] <LjL> mc44: was quite sure it had already been filed
[11:23] <Camaxtli> Don't ctcp version me.
[11:23] <LjL> Camaxtli: i didn't
[11:23] <Camaxtli> --- Received a CTCP VERSION from freenode-connect
[11:23] <LjL> the Freenode server itself just VERSION'ed me though
[11:23] <LjL> yeah
[11:23] <Pricey> Camaxtli, was that freenode-connect ?
[11:23] <LjL> that's not a person
[11:23] <LjL> the server ctcp'd you
[11:23] <LjL> (and, i guess, everybody else too)
[11:23] <ompaul> Camaxtli, did you fix the error ?
[11:23] <Camaxtli> I fixed the error
[11:24] <ompaul> Camaxtli, join ##LjL
[11:24] <LjL> ompaul, you're late, he joined, it's fixed :P
[11:24] <Camaxtli> I was already tested :p
[11:24] <ompaul> ahh
[11:24] <ompaul> k
[11:24] <Camaxtli> I wonder, /dcc SEND something causes a disconnect?
[11:25] <ompaul> Camaxtli, and saying that in the wrong channel gets you klined
[11:25] <LjL> Camaxtli: oh, actually it's much simpler than that, you just *type* something like that *anywhere*. but - do it, and you'll be instantly k-lined, so i recommend against it ;)
[11:25] <nalioth> Camaxtli: yes, there is an ancient (and still unfixed by the manufacturers) bug
[11:25] <Camaxtli> It's a server bug?
[11:25] <LjL> no, it's a router bug
[11:25] <nalioth> Camaxtli: no, it's in YOUR router
[11:26] <ompaul> Camaxtli, your router
[11:26] <Camaxtli> Oh joy
[11:26] <LjL> your router believes something it shouldn't believe
[11:26] <ompaul> LjL, well put
[11:26] <LjL> like, that a faked DCC request is a real DCC request
[11:26] <Camaxtli> So basically my router gets conned
[11:26] <LjL> your router tries to be too smart for its own good - you could put it like that
[11:26] <Camaxtli> Ah
[11:27] <LjL> it shouldn't attempt to handle application-level stuff, but it still tries.
[11:27] <LjL> and does it wrong. ;)
[11:27] <Camaxtli> Lets see if Linksys issued as firmware fix for it
[11:28] <ompaul> Camaxtli, why bother, your client can deal with it, and maybe you can get dd-wrt to work on the router and have more fun
[11:28] <Camaxtli> dd-wrt?
[11:28] <Camaxtli> Now I'm interested. :p
[11:29] <Camaxtli> And what kind of fun are we talking about?
[11:30] <LjL> open source router firmware - wild guess?
[11:31] <Camaxtli> Ah
[11:31] <LjL> no really it's just a guess
[11:31] <LjL> i don't know what it is
[11:32] <nalioth> Camaxtli: join #dd-wrts
[11:32] <LjL> http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/What_is_DD-WRT%3F
[11:33] <Moonwhisper> I appear to be afflicted by a bug of some sort
[11:33] <Moonwhisper> I've updated my router's firmware and changed ports as directed
[12:20] <tonyyarusso> Camaxtli: DD-WRT is friggin' amazing
[12:21] <Camaxtli> I'll try it when I'm home alone again
[12:22] <Camaxtli> I'm reasonably sure that when I try to install it with my family around something will fail.


[02:17] <hazmat> flaviamissi, that should work in the ppa
[02:17] <hazmat> jimbaker, ^ executing commands after juju ssh works?
[02:18] <jimbaker> hazmat, it should
[02:19] <jimbaker> there's specific testing for it, and i understand it's been used by people like m_3
[02:19] <jimbaker> (not to mention myself)
[02:35] <_mup_> juju/refactor-machine-agent r457 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:35] <_mup_> Merged trunk
[02:49] <_mup_> juju/refactor-machine-agent r458 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:49] <_mup_> Addressed review points
[02:56] <_mup_> juju/robust-test-removed-service-unit r458 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:56] <_mup_> Merged upstream and resolved conflict
[03:11] <_mup_> juju/refactor-machine-agent r459 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:11] <_mup_> One last rename
[03:12] <_mup_> juju/robust-test-removed-service-unit r459 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:12] <_mup_> Merged upstream
[14:29] <_mup_> Bug #873907 was filed: Security group on EC2 does not open proper port <juju:Confirmed> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/873907 >
[14:46] <flaviamissi> jimbaker: I saw the test in juju's code
[14:47] <flaviamissi> jimbaker: also put a pdb to check what's going on, the extra params never gets to the open_ssh function, the error is raised before it
[15:22] <jml> hi
[15:22] <jml> ISTR there's a guide somewhere for setting up a machine to do charm development locally using lxc.
[15:22] <jml> I've had a shallow poke around the juju.u.c site and couldn't find it
[15:24] <jml> I'll just plod away on the charm school page and see where that gets me
[15:25] <marcoceppi> jml you can check out this page: https://juju.ubuntu.com/CharmSchool
[15:25] <marcoceppi> Nevermind, you already have that URL
[15:26] <jml> marcoceppi: :)
[15:26] <jml> marcoceppi: thanks for the confirmation though
[15:26] <jml> what does data-dir get used for?
[15:26] <jml> specifically, why is it in /tmp?
[15:30] <marcoceppi> jml: data-dir is just the directory for the zookeeper state and various log files
[15:30] <marcoceppi> It's only used on local environments
[15:31] <jml> marcoceppi: so the chroots don't live there?
[15:31] <marcoceppi> To my knowledge, no
[15:31] <marcoceppi> jml: http://readthedocs.org/docs/juju-docs/en/latest/provider-configuration-local.html
[15:32] <jml> marcoceppi: when I run 'juju bootstrap' I am told "SSH authorized/public key not found."
[15:32] <marcoceppi> You need to make sure you have both a private key and a public key in ~/.ssh/ folder
[15:33] <jml> marcoceppi: Hmm. I bet I need to make sure they are called either id_dsa(.pub) or id_rsa(.pub)
[15:34] <marcoceppi> Yeah, it uses your id_(r|d)sa(.pub) file
[15:34] <jml> marcoceppi: cool. some quick symlinking addressed that.
[15:36] <jml> I'm now getting "error: internal error Network is already in use by interface virbr0" errors. I wonder if that's because I didn't log out & log in again
[15:38] <marcoceppi> jml:  That's exactly why :)
[15:41] <jml> marcoceppi: I'd like to know the underlying reasons for that.
[15:44] <marcoceppi> jml: I'm not 100% sure since I've never used the LXC containers, but I believe it's because of how the libvirt sets up the network interface and the permission associated with that, logging in and out or restarting is essentially the same thing as running newgrp libvirt for your user
[15:45] <jml> hmm.
[15:45] <marcoceppi> I've always just known: Installed libvirt for the first time? Restart for success
[15:46] <jml> marcoceppi: interesting. I wonder how that works, since I can't actually see any configuration anywhere that would put my user into the libvirtd group
[15:46] <jml> I'm mildly reluctant to restart because I'm in the middle of doing other things :)
[15:47] <marcoceppi> Yeah, I detest restarting as well. You could just try `newgrp libvirtd`
[15:48] <jml> marcoceppi: yeah, but my user isn't added to that group yet. Am I supposed to explicitly do that? The docs don't say to do so.
[15:48] <marcoceppi> jml: You shouldn't have to do it
[15:49] <marcoceppi> let me dig up the doc I read that on
[15:49] <jml> marcoceppi: thanks. I really appreciate your help.
[15:49] <marcoceppi> jml:  It's on the same page as the data-dir stuff: https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/provider-configuration-local.html
[15:50] <jml> marcoceppi: yeah, but I'm pretty sure that only works if something has done 'adduser jml libvirtd' first.
[15:50] <jml> marcoceppi: and afaict, that has not been done
[15:51] <jml> which makes me _want_ to restart, just to see if something magically does that :)
[15:51] <marcoceppi> Installing libvirt should have done that, at least on my machine I'm in the libvirtd group :)
[15:52] <jml> marcoceppi: well, this is a pretty darn fresh precise install, so I'm thinking that maybe there's a packaging or documentation bug here.
[15:52] <jml> anyway, I'll re-log now and see what happens.
[15:55] <jml> that's a reboot later and still no libvirtd membership
[15:56] <jml> but 'adduser jml libvirtd; newgrp libvirtd; juju bootstrap' succeeds
[15:57] <marcoceppi> jml: I'm not sure if that's a bug in libvirt on Precise or not. I don't typically use local containers. But if juju bootstraps successfully than \o/
[15:57] <jml> hmm. also 'bootstrap' doesn't do anywhere near as much downloading as the documentation suggests
[15:58] <jml> marcoceppi: well, yeah, getting further makes me happy. If my experience makes it smoother for others, that would make me happier still.
[15:59] <marcoceppi> jml: it should take about 10 seconds to bootstrap on local
[15:59] <marcoceppi> does juju status show you a machine running?
[15:59] <jml> "To speed up the process, you will want to juju bootstrap before the meeting where you have a decent internet connection, which will take a while because it must debootstrap the operating system."
[15:59] <jml> yep
[15:59] <marcoceppi> that sounds outdated, I know bootstrapping to EC2 can take sometime because of startup lag on Amazon
[16:00] <james_w> jml, are you in the office today?
[16:00] <jml> "The bootstrap command will prompt for sudo access as the machine agent needs to run as root in order to create containers on the local machine." – I also didn't get prompted
[16:00] <jml> james_w: no, I'm at home.
[16:00] <marcoceppi> jml: that's odd, I do get prompted
[16:03] <jimbaker> flaviamissi, i assume you have tried quoting the command? also it would be helpful to have the actual juju ssh you are trying to make
[16:11] <jml> so I've deployed a few charms (wordpress, mysql, oops-tools)
[16:12] <jml> and have got 'juju status |grep public-address' on a watch
[16:12] <jml> but so far no public addresses, and no evidence that it's doing anything
[16:13] <jelmer> hi jml
[16:13] <jelmer> jml: what is the status of the machines?
[16:13] <jml> oh no, apt-cacher-ng is active, so I guess it's downloading stuff in some background process somewhere
[16:14] <jml> jelmer: 'pending'
[16:19] <jml> yay, it works!
[16:20] <jml> "Local provider environments do not survive reboots of the host at this time, the environment will need to be destroyed and recreated after a reboot." – does this mean I'll have to bootstrap again after rebooting?
[16:21] <james_w> jml, yeah, assuming that is still current
[16:22] <jml> james_w: ta
[16:22] <jml> I'm guessing that the packages downloaded by apt-cacher-ng are all still present though
[16:22] <james_w> should be
[16:22] <james_w> unless they are stored in data-dir
[16:24] <SpamapS> they're in apt-cacher-ng's normal location
[16:24] <SpamapS> /var/cache I think
[16:25] <SpamapS> jml: perhaps you didn't get sudo prompted because you had recently done some kind of sudo action?
[16:26] <jml> SpamapS: entirely possible. I don't recall that I did, but memory is a slippery thing.
[16:26] <jml> oh wait
[16:26] <jml> duh
[16:26] <jml> sudo adduser jml libvirtd
[16:26] <jml> that'll be the reason.
[16:43] <hazmat> jml, reboot should work now (w/ juju ppa).. data-dir needs to be in a non temp location
[16:44] <jml> hazmat: thanks.
[16:45] <jml> http://code.mumak.net/2012/03/local-juju.html fwiw.
[16:49] <SpamapS> hazmat: how does reboot work with local provider?
[16:50] <SpamapS> hazmat: is it putting upstart jobs on my box?
[16:50] <hazmat> SpamapS, yes
[16:57] <SpamapS> hazmat: COOL
[16:57] <SpamapS> hazmat: does it also make the containers autostart now?
[16:58] <SpamapS> I know I could read it
[16:58] <SpamapS> but I'm gearing up for fix it friday
[16:58] <SpamapS> no time to hunt down answers. :)
[17:32] <jamespage> jcastro, m_3: hbase and refactored hadoop charms ready for review!
[17:36] <jamespage> I'll blog something next week about using them...
[17:37] <jcastro> jamespage: nice!
[17:37] <jcastro> hey ping me before you do it
[17:37] <jcastro> I'd like to have it just natively on cloud.ubuntu.com
[17:38] <m_3> jamespage: whoohoo!
[17:38] <jamespage> jcastro: not sure what that means but I'll draft it up somewhere first
[17:39] <jamespage> jcastro, m_3: I've spent quite a bit of time on the README's so hopefully that should help alot....
[17:39] <jcastro> jamespage: hey so duplicate content on the web = bad, so I was thinking of just having you write it right on cloud.u.c instead of on your personal blog
[17:39] <jcastro> make it a bit more Pro looking
[17:39] <jamespage> jcastro, sure
[17:40] <jamespage> jcastro: you mean javacruft.wordpress.com is not pro looking? :-)
[17:40] <jcastro> I appreciate the work on the READMEs
[17:40] <jcastro> those will be very useful
[17:40] <jcastro> jamespage: I am trying not to say "your blog makes it look like you are a walking java developer stereotype."
[17:40] <jamespage> lol
[17:41] <jamespage> jcastro, no problemo
[17:45] <SpamapS> wow.. tons of deep, well thought out email threads today. I may never get to my part in fix-it friday
[17:46] <negronjl> m_3, SpamapS: https://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+bug/944989
[17:46] <_mup_> Bug #944989: charm needed: distcc <Juju Charms Collection:Fix Committed by negronjl> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/944989 >
[17:47] <jcastro> SpamapS: nathan's 2 charms are ready for round 2
[17:48] <SpamapS> jcastro: Its fix it friday not review it friday! ;) (ok ok, I'll take a look once I get < 138 unread emails ;)
[17:48] <m_3> negronjl: cool...  I'll hit the review queue first thing next week
[17:49] <negronjl> m_3: cool
[17:49] <m_3> SpamapS: you can leave stuff for me for next week if you want
[17:49] <m_3> negronjl: in your neck of the woods atm actually!
[17:49] <SpamapS> m_3: well I already did the 1st round on those two, so I will finish/promulgate them. :)
[17:49] <negronjl> m_3: really ? where ?
[17:50] <m_3> Santa Clara at strata
[17:50] <negronjl> m_3: ahh ... I'm about 4 hours south today .... lol ... I guess I'm just avoiding you :P
[17:50] <m_3> ha!
[17:50] <SpamapS> m_3: I hate that conference center. Its so close to Great America.. I can never stop thinking about how great it would be to just have a conference talk where you say "Screw it guys, no talk, we're riding the big dipper *NOW*"
[17:51] <m_3> yeah, you can see it from the hotel room
[17:51]  * m_3 haven't been on roller coaster in years!
[17:54] <negronjl> m_3, SpamapS: I think the park is closed this time of year
[17:55] <m_3> yeah, didn't pay attention to see if it was running or not
[17:56] <SpamapS> negronjl: that sux
[17:56] <m_3> grrrr... really need to be able to open-port manually without having to reconfigure or upgrade
[17:56] <SpamapS> all the more reason to rent it out and go on the dipper though
[17:56] <SpamapS> m_3: why did your port change?
[17:57] <m_3> SpamapS: ha!  yes... it would be legendary
[17:57] <negronjl> SpamapS: Yup. that makes it worst ... you get to see all of the fun you _could_ be having if the park were open ... :/
[17:57] <negronjl> UDS At Great America :D
[17:57] <m_3> jenkins on 8080 want to go to 80 and remove the proxy b/c I'm cheap
[17:58] <SpamapS> m_3: oh, you *can* actually call open-port w/o a context, IIRC
[17:58] <SpamapS> m_3: You just have to set the socket path
[17:58] <m_3> it wouldn't take it
[17:58] <m_3> oh,
[17:58] <SpamapS> bummer
[18:30] <flaviamissi> jimbaker: yes, I've quoted the command, I am trying to execute the following command: $ juju ssh django/0 ls
[18:30] <jimbaker> flaviamissi, i would expect that to work
[18:31] <flaviamissi> jimbaker: and it outptus juju --help screen, with "juju: error: unrecognized arguments: ls" at the end
[18:31] <flaviamissi> yeah, me too
[18:31] <jimbaker> flaviamissi, does it work with ls * ?
[18:31] <flaviamissi> nope, it executes the ls command in my machine
[18:31] <jimbaker> flaviamissi, hmmm
[18:32] <flaviamissi> jimbaker: look at the error output: juju: error: unrecognized arguments: ls charms _charms data_dir env
[18:32] <SpamapS> flaviamissi: actually it evaluated the * on your machine
[18:32] <SpamapS> flaviamissi: what version of juju?
[18:32] <jimbaker> SpamapS, right, you do need to protect from sh
[18:32] <jimbaker> by quoting it
[18:33]  * SpamapS REALLY thinks its time for juju to have a --version
[18:33] <flaviamissi> jimbaker: from dpkg -l: 0.5+bzr398-0ubuntu1
[18:33] <SpamapS> flaviamissi: AHA!
[18:33] <flaviamissi> SpamapS: ?
[18:33] <SpamapS> flaviamissi: arguments to ssh were added as a feature after 11.10 released
[18:33] <SpamapS> flaviamissi: I'd suggest using juju from the PPA
[18:34] <jimbaker> all makes sense now
[18:34] <flaviamissi> SpamapS: aaaaaahm
[18:34] <SpamapS> flaviamissi: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:juju/pkgs && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install juju
[18:34] <flaviamissi> yeah, shit
[18:34] <flaviamissi> sorry for that
[18:34] <flaviamissi> rs
[18:34] <SpamapS> its ok
[18:34] <SpamapS> we should have shipped a man page
[18:34] <flaviamissi> and I would love to have a --version
[18:35] <flaviamissi> :B
[18:35] <SpamapS> though --help most likely does not show args to ssh ;)
[18:36] <jimbaker> SpamapS, correct, it does not in the old version of juju ssh --help
[18:36] <flaviamissi> yeah, it doens't
[18:36] <flaviamissi> I had to read the souce
[18:36] <SpamapS> usage: juju ssh [-h] [-e ENV] unit_or_machine [command]
[18:36] <SpamapS> in current juju, it shows [command]
[18:37] <SpamapS> should really be [command [args...]]
[18:37] <flaviamissi> just for the record, I installed from the ppa and it worked
[18:37] <flaviamissi> thank you, guys :D
[18:37] <SpamapS> flaviamissi: woot
[18:37] <SpamapS> flaviamissi: note that your environment is going to continue deploying the old juju because of the way juju works.
[18:38]  * SpamapS is reminded he is supposed to send an email to the list about this
[18:40] <flaviamissi> hmmm
[18:40] <flaviamissi> SpamapS: I should re-bootstrap it, then, right?
[18:43] <flaviamissi> be right back
[18:48] <SpamapS> flaviamissi: thats probably the best option yes
[19:03] <jono> jcastro, meet alienth
[19:03] <jcastro> hi alienth!
[19:03] <alienth> jcastro: hola :)
[19:04] <jcastro> hey so, jono says you'd dig to learn some juju
[19:04] <jcastro> I can give you a rundown on how everything works
[19:04] <alienth> yeah!
[19:04] <jcastro> heh ok, so I guess I'll start with something familiar.
[19:04] <jcastro> https://github.com/reddit/reddit/wiki/Install-guide
[19:05] <jcastro> let's pretend I want my own reddit and I want to deploy this.
[19:05] <jcastro> the tldr is juju takes all these steps here, and lets you script them (in whatever language you want).
[19:06] <alienth> gotcha
[19:06] <jcastro> so that when I want to deploy on EC2, bare metal, or OpenStack it's deployed the same
[19:06] <jcastro> so ...
[19:06] <alienth> here is the existing script we point folks to: https://gist.github.com/922144
[19:06] <jcastro> I'm going to pseudo command this page you have here.
[19:06] <alienth> but, it installs everything on one machine (not ideal)
[19:06] <jcastro> oh perfect dude
[19:06] <jcastro> this is basically that script 2.0
[19:06] <jcastro> except we collect them all together and make it so people can build
[19:07] <jcastro> so we'd do like this:
[19:07] <jcastro> juju bootstrap
[19:07] <jcastro> juju deploy reddit (this basically is the same as your script)
[19:07] <jcastro> juju deploy postgres
[19:07] <jcastro> juju deploy memcached
[19:07] <jcastro> then we do:
[19:07] <jcastro> juju add-relation reddit postgres
[19:08] <jcastro> this fires off hooks, which are basically the db commands on your install page
[19:08] <jcastro> juju add-relation reddit memached
[19:08] <jcastro> hooks to whatever you need memcached and reddit to do fire off
[19:08] <alienth> would the add-relation bit be where the reddit ini file is configured with the proper PG server?
[19:08] <jcastro> the deploys fire off instances
[19:08] <jcastro> yeah
[19:08] <alienth> kk
[19:09] <jcastro> the add-relation hooks are basically "I am memcached, when I talk to postgres I need to do foo, bar, and baz."
[19:09] <jcastro> and then the hooks are done
[19:09] <jcastro> you do: juju expost reddit
[19:09] <jcastro> juju expose reddit I mean
[19:09] <jcastro> which opens the port, then you just go to the IP.
[19:10] <SpamapS> alienth: relations are 2-way configuration channels between the individual units of a service.
[19:10] <jcastro> I missed rabbit and cassandra
[19:10] <jcastro> but, we have charms for those two
[19:10] <SpamapS> wow, we have all those already :)
[19:10] <alienth> awesome :)
[19:10] <alienth> out of curiosity, where does juju install reddit from? i don't think it is in the ubuntu ppa yet.
[19:10] <alienth> cassandra
[19:10] <alienth> err
[19:10] <alienth> we actually package it ourself on our ppa
[19:10] <jcastro> yeah so basically, TL;DR; you could adapt your install script to basically be the install hook
[19:11] <SpamapS> alienth: "wherever you want it to" :)
[19:11] <jcastro> alienth: that would fire off a "charmed" version of your install script
[19:11] <alienth> gotcha
[19:11] <jcastro> which is basically your install script + some meta data
[19:11] <SpamapS> alienth: we have charms installing from git, ppa's, the distro, and even embedding tarballs inside the charm
[19:12] <jcastro> alienth: ok so now here's the cool part.
[19:12] <jcastro> once you've defined how the reddit charm talks to all the other charms via hooks
[19:12] <jcastro> you can scale out
[19:12] <jcastro> so "I need more cassandra" becomes "juju add-unit cassandra" fires off another instance
[19:12] <jcastro> and it already knows what it needs to do
[19:12] <alienth> so, does juju have a central store that knows what servers are where?
[19:13] <jcastro> right so when you start juju
[19:13] <jcastro> the "juju bootstrap" fires off a node with zookeeper
[19:13] <alienth> awesome, we actually already use zookeeper
[19:13] <jcastro> and each subsequent launched instance talks to it.
[19:15] <jcastro> right so here's what we can deploy today: http://charms.kapilt.com/charms
[19:15] <jcastro> and there's about 50 more branches of people hacking on stuff that isn't really in there yet.
[19:15] <jcastro> so when someone writes a charm, we put it in this charm store
[19:15] <jcastro> and then basically anybody can deploy anything in the store in a similar manner
[19:16] <jcastro> here's an inprogress hbase one as an example: http://charms.kapilt.com/~james-page/precise/hbase
[19:17] <jcastro> jamespage: hey, the cassandra charm needs a README. :)
[19:17] <jcastro> alienth: the "hooks" here for cassandra give you an idea on what the charm does: http://charms.kapilt.com/charms/oneiric/cassandra
[19:18] <alienth> so, right now, we use haproxy for loadbalancing. If we were to define a relation between the reddit app and haproxy, would we just tell juju to fire off that relation, and then it would modify haproxy to include the new servers once they are built?
[19:18] <alienth> also, are there any tests that juju can perform before bringing something in to the infra?
[19:20] <jcastro> so you would do "juju add-relation reddit haproxy"
[19:20] <SpamapS> alienth: the haproxy charm is pretty simple, and probably needs work, but in its most basic form yes thats how it works.
[19:21] <SpamapS> alienth: for tests we are just now defining "charm tests" to make sure the charm works as you intend it to. In the past we've also had "tester" charms that would relate to the actual service as deployed and verify it, so you could do that, and once that relation passes, then relate it to the real one. Thats a cool idea actually.
[19:25] <alienth> interesting
[19:25] <alienth> yeah, we have to test that a new app server acutlaly serves the app before we can roll it into haproxy
[19:27] <SpamapS> alienth: Probably the simplest way to do that would be to have the website relation joined hook kick off tests before it sends its port/hostname to haproxy.
[19:27] <jcastro> that is an interesting idea I've never even thought of
[19:27] <SpamapS> alienth: another way to do it is to have each app server as its own "service" in juju, and relate it first to the tester, and then to haproxy after those tests pass
[19:28] <SpamapS> jcastro: gets problematic because of ordering though. :-/
[19:28] <jamespage> jcastro, on my list to refresh
[19:29] <jamespage> needs upgrading to 1.x series as well
[19:29] <SpamapS> once relations can affect other relations, this becomes a breeze. For now, the 2nd method would be better.
[19:29] <SpamapS> alienth: how "encapsulated" do your tests need to be? Like, is an app server allowed to verify itself, or is the test done remotely?
[19:30] <alienth> test probably should be remote
[19:30] <alienth> we test remote manually, at this time
[19:30] <alienth> to verify the new app server will actually load reddit
[19:30] <SpamapS> alienth: so another option is to have your check_url return a negative result until tests have passed.
[19:30] <alienth> gotcha
[19:31] <SpamapS> alienth: yeah so you could just test a new "unit" manually and when it looks good, flip the switch on it to let haproxy know its ready to go
[19:31] <SpamapS> alienth: I'd think that would be a huge PITA though
[19:32] <SpamapS> alienth: automation FTW ?
[19:33] <alienth> hehe
[19:34] <SpamapS> alienth: anyway.. it seems like we've accidentally implemented your whole stack, to some degree, in charms already. Perhaps you should challenge one of your interested users to enter our charm writing contest?
[19:34] <SpamapS> alienth: or even, you could enter it. :)
[19:35] <alienth> perhaps! i think most of our opensource folks use ubuntu
[19:36] <jcastro> yeah so the cool bit is the charm store comes with ubuntu
[19:36] <jcastro> so anybody can just deploy a reddit if they want to
[19:37] <hazmat> jml, thanks for the blog post
[19:38] <SpamapS> alienth: we won't hold it against anybody who normally uses fedora.. ;)
[19:38] <jcastro> hey so we also happen to be running a contest right now for cool charms: http://cloud.ubuntu.com/2012/02/juju-charm-contest-help-bring-free-software-into-the-cloud/
[19:39] <jcastro> yeah so I think what makes reddit so cool is how much other stuff it can consume
[19:40] <jcastro> it'd be a wicked demo
[19:44] <jcastro> alienth: hey so, a ton to consume all at once, but that's basically it.
[19:46] <alienth> awesome
[19:46] <alienth> thx for the info
[19:56] <alienth> jcastro: so, we use puppet pretty heavily right now. Do you guys see juju existing alongside puppet?
[19:56] <alienth> jcastro: for example, when we kick a server, a puppet recipe does most things at this time
[19:56] <SpamapS> alienth: we've experimented with embedding puppet in charms.
[19:57] <SpamapS> alienth: and I think there's a use case for having juju be a source of config data and/or classification for puppet
[19:58] <SpamapS> alienth: in fact there may be a good argument to use your puppet recipes as the basis for your charms.
[19:58] <SpamapS> alienth: I see the relationship of puppet <-> juju as the same as autoconf <-> dpkg ...
[20:00] <SpamapS> alienth: so in theory, juju + tools should be able to just take a set of puppet recipes, and turn that into a charm that is then able to relate to other charms maybe written in chef, or shell.
[20:27] <benji> hi guys, I just got this error when doing a deploy-service:
[20:27] <benji> DNS lookup failed: address 'store.juju.ubuntu.com' not found: [Errno -5] No address associated with hostname.
[20:28] <SpamapS> benji: you need to use 'juju deploy --repository path/to/charms local:charmname'
[20:28] <SpamapS> benji: your directory where your charms are also needs to have a sub-dir corresponding with the release of ubuntu you want to deploy, such as 'oneiric'
[20:28] <benji> yep, I forgot the "local:"
[20:29] <gary_poster> +1 on a more direct error message in the future :-)
[20:29] <gary_poster> well, more...friendly?
[20:30] <SpamapS> I think at this point, the message will be "DEPLOYING x from store.juju.ubuntu.com" .. as in, that service is almost ready
[20:30] <benji> I suggest: "Oh no! DNS lookup failed, man!"
[20:30] <SpamapS> "DNS's not here man"
[20:30] <gary_poster> heh
[20:30] <benji> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZX1Mvk84Y0
[22:05] <_mup_> juju/hook-alias-expansion-redux r469 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[22:05] <_mup_> hooks that die from unhandled signals are considered to have error'd out
[22:12] <_mup_> juju/hook-alias-expansion-redux r470 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[22:12] <_mup_> joined event hookalias expansion won't execute a changed if the joined hook fails
[22:36] <Jake> HELP PLEASE
[22:42] <philipballew_> Jake, im not sure what your problem might be, but if you say what it is and wait around, someone might help out. Or at least someone will be able to know if they know what to do.
[23:08] <jcastro> SpamapS: hate to be a bother, but Nathan's been waiting like 2 days for his second round of reviews.
[23:09] <jcastro> I believe I sorted the launchpad status?
[23:14] <SpamapS> jcastro: Its on my short list for today.. had to wrap up some MIR response bug fixes.
[23:17] <jcastro> thanks
[23:17] <jcastro> bummer to miss m_3 and nijaba this week, thanks for the extra effort
[23:20] <SpamapS> jcastro: charmers has 25 members..
[23:21] <SpamapS> jcastro: I'd like to see more review from !(us)
[23:21] <SpamapS> us being, m_3, nijaba, and me. ;)
[23:23] <jcastro> indeed.
[23:24] <jcastro> ok I'll just send a mail to the list
[23:24] <SpamapS> jcastro: our traffic is low enough, its not red alert or anything.. but people should be checking for new charms occasionally
[23:24] <jcastro> yeah I just want to be more vigilant during the contest
[23:25] <jcastro> oy mira, negronjl is a charmer!
[23:25] <negronjl> jcastro: mira ... que pasa
[23:25] <jcastro> got time to do a charm review for a community contributor?
[23:25] <SpamapS> BONG BONG , "lodgeit" promulgated.
[23:26] <negronjl> jcastro: sure ... got a bug number ?
[23:26] <jcastro> oh sneaky Clint
[23:26] <jcastro> https://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+bug/940677
[23:26] <_mup_> Bug #940677: Charm needed: Stack Mobile <new-charm> <Juju Charms Collection:Confirmed for george-edison55> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/940677 >
[23:26] <SpamapS> err
[23:26] <SpamapS> I got that one
[23:28] <jcastro> negronjl: ok never mind I guess. :)
[23:28] <negronjl> jcastro, SpamapS: no worries ...
[23:28] <SpamapS> BONG BONG , "stackmobile" promulgated.
[23:29] <jcastro> SpamapS: you only promulgate on Fridays, have you noticed that?
[23:29] <SpamapS> yes
[23:29] <jcastro> never during the week, when I can write out a nice glorious blog post about how amazing the contribution is
[23:29] <jcastro> always, nearly always right after I EOD.
[23:30] <jcastro> I didn't notice at first
[23:30] <jcastro> touche` sir ...
[23:30] <SpamapS> http://bit.ly/zTp84S
[23:38] <negronjl> SpamapS: Since you appear to be in the "promulgate" mood ... you mind reviewing https://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+bug/944989
[23:38] <_mup_> Bug #944989: charm needed: distcc <Juju Charms Collection:Fix Committed by negronjl> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/944989 >
[23:38] <SpamapS> negronjl: OOOO thats a good one!
[23:42] <jcastro> oh man
[23:42] <jcastro> that is
[23:42] <jcastro> negronjl: did you see our discussion with alienth earlier today?
[23:42] <negronjl> jcastro: no .. where ?
[23:42] <jcastro> go back a few hours in the log
[23:44] <negronjl> jcastro: just read it ...
[23:44] <negronjl> jcastro: to which part are you ref. to, puppet or haproxy ?
[23:44] <jcastro> I just think the whole thing is interesting
[23:44] <jcastro> they use a bunch of stuff I hadn't expected, things we already have charms for
[23:55] <jcastro> SpamapS: mail sent to the list, I hope I don't come across as too condascending


[22:10] <Terry49> I'm new to linux and would like to install it on an old PC laptop (Toshiba Portege M200). It's 32-bit, and has pretty low specs (Intel Pentium M, 1GB ram). Can someone point me to the best release?
[22:14] <genii> Terry49: There are no more supported 32bit *buntu distributions. Your best bet is probably Debian, and then LXDE/LXQt
[22:15] <Terry49> genii Thanks, does it matter if they are not supported?
[22:15] <Terry49> I found this: https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/18.04/release/
[22:16] <genii> Yes, because no more updates...critically security updates. Also the mirrors are frozen in archives
[22:16] <Terry49> Ah, ok
[22:16] <genii> !18.04
[22:16] <genii> EOL
[22:16] <Terry49> genii Of the ones mentioned, which would have best drivers for old hardware?
[22:17] <Terry49> The M200 was this weird tablet/laptop and has a stylus...
[22:17] <genii> *buntu is a Debian derivative, they share a common driver base
[22:18] <Terry49> I tried AntiX, which apparently would works according to this post (https://munk.org/typecast/2019/05/01/antix-17-4-1-i386-on-sweet-16-toshiba-portege-m200/), but could not get it to install.
[22:18] <Terry49> Ok, so Debian it is, then :)
[22:20] <genii> There are also other distributions for lower end older machines like Damn Small Linux, but with Debian you will get a wider selection of applications and larger user base when seeking support
[22:21] <Terry49> genii Ok, looking into Debian.
[22:24] <genii> Hardware wise, the single most effective thing you could do to also increase the performance is to swap out any platter based drive with an SSD
[22:25] <Terry49> Is that possible with the chipset/ports on this old laptop?  It only has IDE afaik
[22:26] <genii> IDE/PATA SSDs exist :)
[22:26] <Terry49> Hmm, wow.
[22:28] <genii> For instance I have one of these in an ancient old Toshiba Satellite https://www.amazon.ca/128GB-KingSpec-2-5-inch-SM2236-Controller/dp/B0091T4ZWU
[22:29] <Terry49> genii That's pretty cool. I imagine that is a big boost to access times. The old Hitachi 60GB mechanical is slow :P
[22:34] <Terry49> Loading nicely... Thanks for this advice genii. I really was dreading using WindowsXP SP3 Tablet OS to use the machine. We'll see if I can get the stylus to work.
[22:35] <genii> Excellent
[22:37] <genii> Terry49: There is also #linux channel for general Linux support on Libera IRC, Debian has it's home channel on OFTC IRC network but there is also a #debian channel here on Libera


[12:51] <Kangarooo> Hi, how can i see all bugs ive reported? I open bugs and see 274, i click reported bugs- 180. How to see all bugs ive reported and all ive commented on? https://bugs.launchpad.net/~kangarooo/+reportedbugs
[12:59] <Kangarooo> if in reported bugs i select all statuses and unselect all other, then iget 750 bugs ive reported. That would be correct? Maybe was more. Then how to see all ive commented on?
[13:04] <cjwatson> Kangarooo: There's a "Commented bugs" link at the right.  But also, this filters out closed bugs and duplicates by default.  If you really want to see everything, then go to "Advanced search", check all the boxes under "Status", enter your username under "Commenter" (or "Reporter", as appropriate), uncheck "Hide duplicate bugs", and press "Search"
[13:06] <cjwatson> Kangarooo: (Actually, sorry, if you're starting from the "Advanced search" link on the "Commented bugs" or "Reported bugs" page, you don't also need to enter your username under "Commenter" or "Reporter")
[13:07] <Kangarooo> there is Assignee. That will be for reports?
[13:08] <cjwatson> Just start from "Reported bugs" or "Commented bugs" as appropriate and it'll filter for you
[13:08] <cjwatson> If you want direct links:
[13:08] <cjwatson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~/+reportedbugs?field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=OPINION&field.status%3Alist=INVALID&field.status%3Alist=WONTFIX&field.status%3Alist=EXPIRED&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.status%3Alist=FIXRELEASED&field.status%3Alist=DOESNOTEXIST&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RES
[13:09] <cjwatson> PONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.omit_dupes.used=
[13:09] <cjwatson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~/+commentedbugs?field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=OPINION&field.status%3Alist=INVALID&field.status%3Alist=WONTFIX&field.status%3Alist=EXPIRED&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.status%3Alist=FIXRELEASED&field.status%3Alist=DOESNOTEXIST&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RE
[13:09] <cjwatson> SPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.omit_dupes.used=
[13:09] <cjwatson> Though those don't transfer terribly well over IRC due to being too long, sorry
[13:41] <cjwatson> I've reported those builder issues to IS, but of course it's the holidays so I don't know when I'll get a response
[15:54] <cjwatson> riscv64 coming back now