[01:03] <patdk-lap> karstensrage, that is not a very safe thing to do with security
[01:20] <karstensrage> patdk-lap, what do you mean?
[01:21] <patdk-lap> you are not matching the whole string, only the start of the process name
[01:38] <karstensrage> so why is that bad? patdk-lap
[01:39] <patdk-lap> whatever that check is doing, can be bypassed by using a process starting with the same name
[01:52] <karstensrage> well its an nss library like nss_ldap
[01:52] <karstensrage> and those processes are the ones that open the library but dont do anything with it
[01:53] <karstensrage> or close it
[01:53] <karstensrage> so that code is necessary to short circuit out if those processes open the library
[01:53] <karstensrage> so if there is process that has the same starting name, i guess i would want to short circuit out as well
[01:54] <karstensrage> this same problem is apparently with nss_ldap
[01:54] <karstensrage> but they handled it differently
[01:55] <karstensrage> debian sure makes things painful
[01:55] <tarpman> karstensrage: was just about to say, nss-ldap doesn't seem to have any of those process names hard-coded in it; what did they do differently?
[01:56] <karstensrage> tarpman, the work around afaict was to set a flag to either do a strong connection or a weak connection to the ldap server, in the former case keep trying after a failure, in the latter, abort if  it fails the first time
[01:56] <karstensrage> i dont have that luxury
[01:57] <karstensrage> i hate this way of doing it btw with the hardcoded names
[01:57] <karstensrage> but im not seeing a good way around it
[02:00] <karstensrage> tarpman, basically if you google "dbus nss_ldap" you can find all the discussions about the troubles nss_ldap had
[02:01] <karstensrage> it was really hard to narrow it down to dbus, but once i did that, i was able to put in the right debugging to see these processes and filter them out
[02:01] <tarpman> this is ringing some bells now... some of these bugs look very familiar
[03:06] <karstensrage> tarpman, any other suggestions?
[03:11] <rbasak> teward: I think you can set DEB_BUILD_MAINT_OPTIONS=hardening=-pie or something like that.
[03:11] <rbasak> teward: https://wiki.debian.org/Hardening#dpkg-buildflags
[03:34] <tarpman> karstensrage: in your position I'd be trying very hard to detect the "network unreachable" state from my module... that wasn't possible for libnss-ldap since libldap hides the network state behind the LDAP result code
[07:41] <jakst> is this the right channel to ask for assistance with data recovery with Linux Raid 5 / LVM ?
[08:10] <cpaelzer> jakst: it is one channel to ask - there is no one specific to ubuntu + lvm/raid
[08:11] <cpaelzer> jakst: you can still go on to the wider community in #ubuntu if you find no help in the more server specific group around here
[08:12] <jakst> cpaelzer: Of course, just wanted to make sure I wouldn't be chased away with torches and pitchforks for asking here :) Already tried #ubuntu but didn't get much of a response
[08:15] <cpaelzer> jakst: it maybe is still a slow satrt of the year
[08:15] <jakst> Well, I'll give it a shot
[08:15] <jakst> The thing is, my physical and logical volumes have disappeared from LVM, and my raid array has status 'active, degraded, not started' and reports the wrong size
[08:16] <cpaelzer> jakst: did any of the links that were linked there help you already ?
[08:16] <jakst> No, not really
[08:17] <cpaelzer> jakst: if all is gone (pv and lv and likely also vg) you have to start looking bottom up
[08:17] <cpaelzer> jakst: so #1 are the raw devices like /dev/sd... still there?
[08:17] <cpaelzer> jakst: from there go on with pvdisplay, maybe pvscan ... to find your pv's - and from there to vg and lv and so on
[08:17] <jakst> I can see them with fdisk -l
[08:18] <cpaelzer> jakst: the question is where it breaks
[08:18] <cpaelzer> jakst: ok so disks are there - and for the moment we assume they are intact
[08:18] <cpaelzer> jakst: you said LVM / Raid before - is it only LVM or is also an md involved?
[08:18] <jakst> cpaelzer: pvdisplay and pvscan display nothing
[08:18] <jakst> yes
[08:19] <cpaelzer> stacked which way - are the pv's on the md array - or have you made a md array out of lv's ?
[08:19] <jakst> cpaelzer:  /dev/md0 consists of raid5 of  sdc sdd and sde
[08:20] <cpaelzer> jakst: ok and the pv(s) is on /dev/md0 to shape off lvms from there right?
[08:20] <cpaelzer> jakst: is cat /proc/mdstat still happy about /dev/md0?
[08:20] <lordievader> Good morning, happy new year!
[08:20] <cpaelzer> good morning and year lordievader
[08:21] <jakst> Happy new year! :)
[08:21] <jakst> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/JcWed20J/
[08:21] <jakst> This is /proc/mdstat
[08:21] <cpaelzer> jakst: ok, so not lvm is broken (maybe it is later) but your md is down
[08:23] <jakst> Yeah that seems to be the case
[08:23] <cpaelzer> jakst: http://superuser.com/questions/603481/how-do-i-reactivate-my-mdadm-raid5-array
[08:23] <cpaelzer> jakst: that should get you to activate it again
[08:23] <cpaelzer> jakst: there are also commands to gather status on each member disk and such
[08:23] <cpaelzer> jakst: I'd do so and store that away before starting/assembling it
[08:24] <jakst> Do you mean mdadm --examine /dev/sdc etc?
[08:24] <cpaelzer> jakst: and all other raid devs
[08:25] <cpaelzer> jakst: I like to store debug info before changing something
[08:25] <jakst> Thanks for the tip!
[08:25] <cpaelzer> jakst: and then likely go with
[08:25] <cpaelzer> jakst: mdadm --stop /dev/md0
[08:25] <cpaelzer> jakst: mdadm --assemble --scan -v
[08:25] <cpaelzer> jakst: and let us know if it worked or why not if not
[08:26] <cpaelzer> jakst: the linked example has a case with out of date disks and uses force to reenable, but most of what follows depends so much on your case that you have to decide (e.g. if force is ok)
[08:28] <jakst> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/2FlDN3O1/
[08:28] <jakst> So this is the output of assemble
[08:29] <cpaelzer> jakst: that is a good start
[08:29] <cpaelzer> jakst:  as I read it it means it could reassemble the state and currently syncs up one of your devices
[08:30] <cpaelzer> your /proc/mdstat should show it syncing with an ETA
[08:30] <cpaelzer> jakst: after that you should be able to start it
[08:30] <cpaelzer> jakst: what does proc/mdstat show now?
[08:30] <jakst> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/nMMfc1Ir/
[08:31] <cpaelzer> jakst: also the state of the examine output should have changed now - the disks are now part of an array
[08:31] <cpaelzer> jakst: there is something like "Device Role" at the end of examine
[08:31] <cpaelzer> hrm - does that mean they are all as spares (S)
[08:31] <cpaelzer> need to check
[08:33] <jakst> cpaelzer: Device Role is the same as before, Active device 0, 1 and 2
[08:34] <cpaelzer> jakst: it very likely just needs the --force, but it is your data so I'm refusing to just say you should do so
[08:34] <cpaelzer> jakst: do you have enough spare storage to dd away the raw disk content before you do so?
[08:34] <jakst> No, I don't
[08:34] <jakst> what does force do?
[08:35] <cpaelzer> jakst: essentially it starts it anyway referring to the last line in https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/2FlDN3O1/
[08:35] <cpaelzer> jakst: from the bit I see in your case it is 98% fixing your issue, but 2% killing your data - that is why I need you to make the call
[08:37] <cpaelzer> jakst: "if you search for "assembled from 2 drives and 1 rebuilding - not enough to start the array while not clean - consider --force" the net is full of recommendations to just do it
[08:37] <jakst> Well I don't have enough space to backup, and it's not ultra critical to recover. Just very very nice if it works
[08:38] <cpaelzer> jakst: so do the assemble with force, then start it
[08:38] <jakst> It says my devices are busy -.-
[08:38] <cpaelzer> jakst: it should be in recovery mode then
[08:38] <cpaelzer> jakst: stop before reassemble
[08:39] <jakst> Ok, but should I assemble manually? Don't know what it get sr0 from and suh
[08:40] <jakst> Nvm that
[08:40] <jakst> Now I forced it. Should I just mount it now?
[08:41] <cpaelzer> jakst: now that you forced the assemble you should madam start it and check /proc/mdstat
[08:42] <jakst> is that mdadm -A /dev/md0?
[08:43] <cpaelzer> jakst: assemble might start it automatically - it is too long ago since mine just works for years now
[08:43] <cpaelzer> jakst: what does /proc/mdstat show now (before searching for a start command that might not exists)
[08:44] <jakst> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/8LzgkVch/
[08:44] <jakst> Recovering
[08:44] <cpaelzer> jakst: good
[08:44] <cpaelzer> jakst: when that happened to me it was the day to read about upgrading to raid6 for the day two disks will break :-)
[08:45] <cpaelzer> jakst: you can use it now, after the recovery is done it will provide the extra level of failsafe again
[08:45] <jakst> Haha yeah, a lot of thoughts about upgrading have been passing through my head
[08:45] <cpaelzer> jakst: I waited to be recovered before using it thou
[08:46] <jakst> cpaelzer: Yeah I'll just check if it mounts properly, then I'll leave it to recovering
[08:46] <cpaelzer> jakst: in your case pvscan might be the next
[08:46] <cpaelzer> jakst: as you have pvs on the md
[08:46] <cpaelzer> jakst: and then vgscan, lvscan, mount
[08:49] <jakst> cpaelzer: Well it appears in pvscan, but without a volume group
[08:50] <cpaelzer> jakst: it apears without vg in pvscan because the vg isn't active I think
[08:51] <jakst> It's supposed to belong to vg group0
[08:51] <jakst> I think. Was a while since I set it up
[08:52] <cpaelzer> jakst: so pvdisplay shows your pv's
[08:52] <cpaelzer> jakst: but vgdisplay shows nothing - not even inactive?
[08:53] <jakst> vgdisplay shows my volume group, but only cointaing a caching disk that I never bothered to activate
[08:54] <cpaelzer> jakst: and vgscan is not re-finding your pvs now?
[08:54] <jakst> Nope =/
[08:55] <cpaelzer> jakst: sorry I'm out of remote-usable-skills now I guess
[08:55] <cpaelzer> jakst: has the pvdisplay all your pv's at least?
[08:57] <jakst> cpaelzer: pvdisplay shows md0, but not the individual drives
[08:58] <lordievader> jakst: That makes sense? Right?
[08:58] <lordievader> Ja
[08:58] <lordievader> Whoops
[09:00] <jakst> lordievader: Well I think I recall that each drive was listed under pvs
[09:01] <cpaelzer> jakst: if you did pvcreate on /dev/md0 you will only see /dev/md0 in pvdisplay
[09:01] <lordievader> For mdraid perhaps... but if you layer lvm on top of mdraid you won't see all drives in pvs/pvdisplay.
[09:01] <cpaelzer> jakst: the member disks are no more to be accessed directly or you will kill your raid
[09:01] <lordievader> ^ that.
[09:01] <cpaelzer> lordievader: ack
[09:02] <lordievader> If you'd let LVM do the raid5 then yes, you'd see all disks.
[09:03] <jakst> Ok, but trying to mount the array I get 'mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/md0'
[09:04] <lordievader> jakst: You put lvm on the mdraid right?
[09:04] <lordievader> LVM ain't a filesystem ;)
[09:05] <jakst> lordievader: No I guess I haven't. How would I do that without destroying the data?
[09:06] <lordievader> jakst: What is the output of 'sudo pvscan && sudo vgscan && sudo lvscan'?
[09:06] <cpaelzer> that ^
[09:07] <jakst> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/v8VXxrij/
[09:07] <jakst> sdb is the device I was meaning to use as cache, but never did
[09:09] <lordievader> Hmm, md0 contains a PV signature but is not assigned to any volume group?
[09:09] <jakst> Before the crash I had a logical volume called data
[09:09] <jakst> Heh, yeah
[09:10] <lordievader> jakst: Could you pastebin the output of 'sudo lsblk -o NAME,KNAME,FSTYPE'?
[09:11] <jakst> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/0oD8Q8cw/
[09:14] <cpaelzer> jakst: it will likely just complain not knowing about "data" but what does this give you?: "vgchange -ay data"
[09:14] <jakst> Yeah not found
[09:15] <lordievader> Sda contains rootfs I presume?
[09:15] <cpaelzer> jakst: sudo vgcfgrestore --list data
[09:15] <jakst> yes
[09:16] <jakst> sudo vgcfgrestore --list data
[09:16] <jakst> No archives found in /etc/lvm/archive.
[09:16] <cpaelzer> :-/
[09:16] <jakst> But if I ls that directory I can see them
[09:16] <cpaelzer> ?
[09:16] <jakst> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/4xEbEngI/
[09:17] <cpaelzer> jakst: well you have backup of the group0 cache, but not of a data vg
[09:17] <cpaelzer> jakst: I slowly lean to assuming you once had a data lvm, but stopped using it a while ago
[09:17] <jakst> My system was up and running before new years
[09:18] <lordievader> jakst: What happened that you lost it?
[09:18] <lordievader> Power outage?
[09:18] <jakst> Might have been, not sure. I was away
[09:19] <jakst> But I also might have messed it up in my early rescue attempts
[09:19] <cpaelzer> I just checked your former pastes - since /dev/md0 is a proper PV it was used as PV - I wonder why it would auto-backup the cache but not the data config
[09:20] <jakst> But group0 countained the lv data, so should be correct right?
[09:20] <jakst> data wasn't it's own group
[09:21] <cpaelzer> jakst: are the files in /etc/lvm/archive human readable - and if yes is data in there?
[09:23] <lordievader> jakst: Is the data lv defined in /etc/lvm/backup/*
[09:23] <lordievader> ?
[09:24] <jakst> not in backup, but in archive
[09:24] <jakst> # Generated by LVM2 version 2.02.98(2) (2012-10-15): Wed Jul 15 12:27:07 2015
[09:24] <jakst> contents = "Text Format Volume Group"
[09:24] <jakst> version = 1
[09:24] <jakst> description = "Created *before* executing 'lvcreate group0 -L20M -n dataCacheMe$
[09:24] <jakst> creation_host = "NAS"   # Linux NAS 3.16.0-43-generic #58~14.04.1-Ubuntu SMP Mo$
[09:25] <cpaelzer> but that seems only to be the cache device
[09:25] <cpaelzer> or came more before flood control kicked you
[09:25] <lordievader> jakst: Could you pastebin that file?
[09:26] <jakst> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/xrkslaQV/
[09:26] <jakst> Yeah, I accidentally pasted raw :P
[09:27] <jakst> Hard to copy long texts from console...
[09:27] <cpaelzer> nice, it really has a backup
[09:27] <cpaelzer> not sure but you might be able to reload that with vgcfgrestore
[09:30] <jakst> I could!
[09:33] <jakst> And it mounted!!! My data is back!!!!
[09:33] <cpaelzer> yeah
[09:33] <lordievader> Whoop whoop
[09:33] <cpaelzer> gz jakst
[09:33] <lordievader> jakst: Nice
[09:33] <jakst> Love you guys cpaelzer lordievader
[09:33] <lordievader> jakst: What was the actual command you used to restore the backup?
[09:34] <jakst> sudo vgcfgrestore -f /etc/lvm/archive/group0_00008-621465970.vg group0
[09:34] <lordievader> Ah, cool.
[09:34] <lordievader> Thanks
[09:35] <jakst> I really couldn't have figured that out on my own, and I already spent a whole day trying
[09:35] <jakst> Now I learned a lot as well! Thanks :)
[09:36] <cpaelzer> your welcome
[09:36] <jakst> So, futureproofing.... Raid6. Anything else?
[09:37] <lordievader> I'd do the raid in LVM, but that is me ;)
[09:38] <jakst> What's the upside?
[09:38] <lordievader> More flexibility. LVM uses dmraid, like mdraid, but does so per LV instead of per disk.
[09:39] <lordievader> So you can determine per LV if you want linear, raid0, raid1, raid-whatever.
[09:39] <cpaelzer> jakst: also maybe share your won insight in something like http://askubuntu.com/questions/13981/recover-lvm-after-hdd-crash or a new post
[09:40] <jakst> cpaelzer: Absolutely, I'll do that!
[09:40] <jakst> lordievader: Okay, sounds nice. I'll have to look at that when I get more disks
[09:48] <ghostal> i need to set up sendmail on my ubuntu xenial server. the server just needs to send emails to users, it doesn't need to receive anything. i found this guide on DO, whose guides i've found to be excellent in the past, but this one seems a little more confusing to me https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-install-and-configure-postfix-as-a-send-only-smtp-server-on-ubuntu-16-04
[09:49] <ghostal> particularly, i'm confused about hostname settings. should it even matter if all i'm doing is sending email?
[10:08] <rbasak> ghostal: unless you're using a service provider's email relay, if your hostname doesn't resolve to your source IP (and in reverse) then many hosts will block your emails for spam.
[10:10] <ghostal> rbasak: well, i'm not using a relay, i know that much :)
[10:10] <ghostal> my hostname is just "mir"
[10:14] <ghostal> but there is a DNS a record for the machine
[14:10] <kirkland> dasjoe: hmm, I think it's supposed to default to the last LTS
[15:30] <zul> coreycb: ping can you update your upstream report please?
[15:30] <coreycb> zul, that's in progress, did you see I moved that btw?
[15:31] <zul> coreycb: yeah im using the new location
[15:31] <coreycb> zul, ok
[15:32] <coreycb> zul, i'm working on barbican update-excuses failure.  waiting on a s390 instance to debug the neutron autopkgtest failure.
[15:33] <zul> coreycb: ack
[15:40] <coreycb> zul, do you have an MIR open for monasca-statsd?
[15:40] <zul> coreycb: no there needs to be one i think
[15:41] <coreycb> zul, ok i'll open one
[15:43] <zul> coreycb: k
[16:31] <jge> anyone ever used chrony in ubuntu before? I'm trying to query a chrony client on my network as "chronyc -h <IP_ADDRESS> tracking" but I'm wondering if it needs to be allowed first inside chrony.conf
[16:31] <ikonia> allowed ?
[16:31] <ikonia> if you're specifying it on the command line it won't take that parameter from the config
[16:35] <jge> ikonia: chrony operates as an ntp client by default, if I allow a host inside chrony.conf then it becomes a server for that client (if it needs to) but I just want to query it for skews
[16:35] <jge> I'll test it
[16:36] <ikonia> jge: right, but you're specifying -h on the command line so it won't care about that option in the host
[16:36] <ikonia> (host config)
[16:36] <jge> ikonia: I'm querying the remote server from another host in the network
[16:37] <ikonia> jge: yes, I understand that,
[16:37] <ikonia> jge: however the fact that you're setting -h on the command line replaces that parameter from the config
[16:37] <jge> same thing as an "ntpq -p
[16:38] <jge> but the other end needs to allow the connection
[16:38] <jge> no?
[16:38] <ikonia> jge: so you're talking about the config on the remote servcer it's querying
[16:38] <ikonia> rather than the client
[16:38] <jge> yep
[16:38] <ikonia> jge: ok, so yes you'll need to tell it to allow queries
[16:39] <jge> yeah I did, let me test it
[16:39] <jge> never worked with chrony so I wasnt sure
[16:39] <ikonia> jge: works %80 the same as ntp
[16:41] <jge> yeah the guy who has it running here swears by it
[16:41] <jge> "it's so much better than ntpd"
[16:41] <jge> but no explanation as to why he thought that.. had to look it up.
[16:42] <ikonia> I'm not sure why it's "better"
[16:42] <ikonia> I've found it "fine" but nothing to write home about as a big song and dance
[16:42] <ikonia> I don't see any real world benifit over ntp
[16:50] <ctjctj> Hello.  I'm attempting to mount a filesystem from an iscsi server.   My fstab has the _netdev option for the filesystem and it is using UUID.  The problem is that during the boot sequence iscsi-open start script hasn't run at the time the system attempts to mount the disk.  How do I get iscsi-open to run after network start and before the mounting of filesystems?
[16:54] <nacc> ctjctj: i wonder if you need to include iscsi into your initramfs
[16:55] <ctjctj> nacc, no.  I'm not booting off an iscsi disk.
[16:55] <ctjctj> UUID="xyzzy" /var/lib/mysql defaults,_netdev 1 1
[16:56] <ctjctj> So we boot of a local disk and then we should mount the iscsi disk before mysqld (mariadb) starts
[16:56] <nacc> ctjctj: ah sorry
[16:56] <ctjctj> nacc, it was a great answer, just not the one I needed.
[16:56] <nacc> ctjctj: 16.04?
[16:56] <ctjctj> 14.04 LTS
[16:57] <nacc> ctjctj: hrm, so maybe an upstart ordering is needed?
[16:59] <ctjctj> I thought that.  But we have S45open-iscsi in rcS.d which I *think* means to do this before we change out of single user mode and into a multi-user runstate.
[17:00] <ctjctj> My understanding was that by putting the _netdev it would cause the mount of network devices to wait until after open-iscsi completed.
[17:03] <coreycb> zul, monasca-statsd is optional so I added it to suggests
[17:05] <coreycb> zul, upstream report is updated now too for ocata
[17:26] <jge> ikonia: that worked but now I'm getting "517 Protocol versin mismatch" not much about it online.. the client querying is running Ubuntu and the other CentOS.. wondering if this is the problem
[17:27] <ikonia> shouldn't be
[17:27] <jge> ubuntu has chrony version 1.29 and Centos 1.29.1
[17:28] <ikonia> I have multiple distros using it with each other
[17:29] <jge> ikonia: looking at source here https://github.com/SuperQ/chrony/blob/master/client.c
[17:30] <jge> something to do with a bad header?
[17:30] <ikonia> jge: not sure, I'll need to look into it, but it works on mine
[17:31] <jge> ikonia: are you able to query other clients as "crhonyc -h ip tracking"
[17:31] <jge> ?
[17:32] <ikonia> jge: I can't check it at the moment as I don't have access to those hosts from where I am
[17:32] <jge> hmm ok.
[17:32] <jge> I don't know then :(
[17:33] <jge> it would be nice to have a switch for verbose
[17:35] <ikonia> I can try it for you later on
[17:56] <zul> coreycb: cool beans
[18:13] <coreycb> beisner, hi can you promote python-cryptography 1.0.1-1ubuntu1~cloud1.2 to liberty-proposed please?
[18:27] <beisner> coreycb, done, re: https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1601986
[18:28] <coreycb> beisner, ty sir
[18:29] <zul> coreycb: mind if i sync python-muranoclient over from debian?
[18:29] <coreycb> zul, fine by me
[19:02] <jakst> How would I go about doing a smart scan of a disk if my ubuntu server is hosted in an ESXi hypervisor? In Ubuntu or in ESXi?
[19:28] <ctjctj> How do I force open-iscsi to start before network mounts?  At this point I have a _netdev in fstab for the disk in question. open-iscsi attaches the device correctly when it runs but upstart/systemd(?) are attempting to mount the disk before open-iscsi starts
[21:38] <coreycb> beisner, hey these are ready to promote from liberty-proposed->liberty-updates: cinder, heat, manila, nova, openstack-trove, sahara
[21:48] <ctjctj> I'm looking at an issue that /etc/init/mountall-net.conf will attempt to mount devices that are attached via open-iscsi.  But mountall-net.conf runs before open-iscsi runs.  Is there a fix for this?
[22:26] <jge> hey all, could I install a version of a package that's meant for say Xenial to Trusty?
[22:27] <nacc> jge: that's not recommended or supported
[22:29] <ikonia> jge: no
[22:29] <jge> so I'm better of intsalling from source if I need a version that's not available in repos?
[22:31] <ikonia> jge: what do you actually want
[22:31] <jge> ikonia: chrony version 2.3
[22:31] <jge> ttp://chrony.tuxfamily.org/doc/2.3/manual.html#Installation
[22:32] <ikonia> jge: why do you want that version ?
[22:32] <nacc> jge: 2.3 is not available in xenial either, afaict
[22:33] <ikonia> win 12
[22:33] <ikonia> oops
[22:33] <jge> ikonia: I'm getting an error trying to query another chrony client in Cent0S, "Read command packet with protocol version 5 (expected) 6" and from the mailing list here it looks like it might be related to the version: https://listengine.tuxfamily.org/chrony.tuxfamily.org/chrony-users/2010/06/msg00005.html
[22:34] <jge> so I wanted to test if upgrading to the latest release will help
[22:34] <ikonia> I've got 16.04 and Centos 7 hosts in sync from each other
[22:34] <jge> what version of chrony on both?
[22:35] <ikonia> saly, I can't check as I ended up not going home tonight
[22:36] <jge> I was able to test earlier from different clients (one 1.29 and the other 2.2) both CentOS and it worked, so I'm thinking is the version of Ubuntu..
[22:37] <ikonia> jge: what version does ubuntu use
[22:37] <jge> it appearently sends protocol version 5 when the other ends expects 6
[22:37] <ikonia> what actual chrony version does ubuntu use
[22:37] <ikonia> (not got a box here to check)
[22:37] <jge> ikonia: it's on 1.29.1 which is the latest stable
[22:37] <ikonia> jge: so applying logic, you have a 1.29 box working and 2.2 box working
[22:38] <ikonia> i don't think a 1.29.1 "won't" work, when a 1.29 box does
[22:38] <jge> same OS though
[22:38] <ikonia> jge: so ?
[22:39] <jge> well, I'm thinking it might be implemented differently.. it's clearly sending a different version of the protocol
[22:39] <ikonia> so if you think it's a different implmentation, upgrading it won't do anything
[22:39] <jge> if it would be the same code base then it shouldn't complain
[22:39] <ikonia> jge: have you actually looked at the config or arguments to see if things can be set
[22:40] <ikonia> jge: it is the same code base
[22:40] <ikonia> you've just said that
[22:40] <ikonia> you have a 1.29 client that works
[22:40] <ikonia> 1.29.1 is the same codebase
[22:41] <jge> my idea with upgrading is that the latest release could have better (compatability) with earlier versions as opposed to the opposite
[22:42] <ikonia> jge: sorry, thats just blind randomess
[22:42] <jge> maybe downgrade connection protocol, I don't know ..just spitting ideas
[22:42] <ikonia> jge: have you even done basic research to see if the clients support both versions of the protocol
[22:42] <ikonia> and if you can force the protocol, and what the default is
[22:43] <jge> i looked up focing the protocol but manual doesn't have anything for that..
[22:43] <jge> client obviously does not support one of the protocols
[22:45] <ikonia> why though
[22:45] <ikonia> as it's in the code base
[22:45] <ikonia> logically it's more likley to be a configuration option
[22:47] <jge> ikonia: https://github.com/mlichvar/chrony/blob/master/NEWS
[22:48] <jge> check out the security fix under version 1.29.1
[22:48] <jge> incompatible with previous protocol version..
[22:48] <ikonia> there you go then
[22:48] <ikonia> so you need to use the other protocol
[22:48] <jge> but would that be referring to 1.29 or 1.28?
[22:49] <ikonia> would what ?
[22:49] <jge> previous protocol version
[22:49] <ikonia> so 1.29 seems to support both
[22:49] <ikonia> 1.29.1 seems to patch one to fix a problem
[22:50] <ikonia> so the logical approach is to use the one that is supported by both
[22:50] <ikonia> how to foce it the question
[22:50] <ikonia> if you look there is a similar change in 1.27
[22:51] <jge> hm yeah I see it
[22:53] <jge> ikonia: I dont have chronyd open on the internet, maybe I could just go back to 1.29
[22:54] <jge> wait a minute, I was looking at another box... the ubuntu box is already on version 1.29
[23:18] <ctjctj> For anybody that cares about the open-iscsi mount on boot issue I was describing.  When we went to upstart we created a helper tool called "mountall" which processes fstab and mounts drives as they become available.  Once upstart starts the network /etc/init/mountall-net.conf runs and kills the mountall process.  BUT /etc/init.d/open-iscsi start has not yet run so any iscsi targets have not yet been mounted.  Thus the mount
[23:18] <ctjctj> fails and boot hangs.  The original intention was for the _netdev in /etc/fstab to keep any mount of the iscsi device from happening.  All the other remote devices would then be mounted by commands like "mount -a -t nfs -O _netdev"  Thus /etc/init.d/open-iscsi also does a "mount -a -O _netdev" because it runs after all of NFS/CIFS and such.  Catch 22.
[23:21] <keithzg> Any built-in way with systemd to have an escalating set of shutdown commands for a service? Specifically, I have a VirtualBox VM set up as a service, and I'd like it to first try VBoxManage controlvm $vmname acpishutdown, and (perhaps after a timeout) try poweroff instead of acpishutdown if the process hasn't halted.
[23:22] <Curiontice> Hi! is it possible to compile squid into a package such that no shared dependency exist?
[23:23]  * keithzg has tried to read systemd documentation, but for instance https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.unit.html doesn't even *mention* ExecStop, much less document it.
[23:30] <ctjctj> keithzg, i believe there is a method.  The easiest that I can think of is to just have two shutdown VM commands.  One does the acpishutdown and waits upto 30 seconds  Then the second VM shutdown runs and does the poweroff.  Since all VMs that could be shutdown with acpishutdown will already be shutdown this only catches the once still on.
[23:32] <keithzg> ctjctj: Fair enough, I was thinking perhaps there was some native systemd way of doing this but that certainly sounds like it'd work. I'll try just using `/usr/bin/VBoxManage controlvm Sibrel acpipowerbutton && /bin/sleep 30 && /usr/bin/VBoxManage controlvm Sibrel poweroff`
[23:48] <ZJAY>  how would i soft link a path like /Volumes to my main path /media/dumpebut/<somehugedrive> i need it to see the soft link path in a script.


[08:00] <jamespage> adam_g, if you are in today - https://code.launchpad.net/~james-page/charms/precise/keystone/fix-requested-roles/+merge/183580
[08:00] <jamespage> that's the cause of the openstack-dashboard lack of member role stuff that jpds hit last week
[08:01] <jamespage> they are not using swift and the keystone identity-changed hook was not creating the role for services not registering endpoints....
[08:58] <raywang> helle jamespage
[13:04] <marcoceppi> kurt__: Is the unit in a dying state? RE: Before I file a bug, is it a known issue with the inability to destroy service in 1.12 with status showing stuck in "life: dying" ?
[13:04] <marcoceppi> hazmat: pong
[13:04] <kurt__> hi marcoceppi: I did file bug.  Sorry have to run
[13:06] <marcoceppi> kurt__: no worries
[13:06] <marcoceppi> kurt__: is the unit in an error state* is what I meant to ask
[13:07] <kurt__> I think so, yes
[13:15] <marcoceppi> kurt__: cool, next time you want to kill them off, just run `juju resolved <unit-in-errror-that's-dying>` a few times
[13:15] <marcoceppi> this is expected behaviour of juju
[13:50] <X-warrior> If I'm receiving relation not found, when adding a relation between 2 charms. It means that the metadata from both doesn't match?
[14:16] <marcoceppi> X-warrior: Is this in regards to your editing the metadata.yaml file after deployment?
[14:17] <jcastro> jamespage: http://askubuntu.com/questions/340465/juju-ceph-deployment
[14:20] <jamespage> jcastro, posted
[14:20] <jamespage> its a bitch
[14:20] <jamespage> second hit in three days on that one
[14:20] <jcastro> nice!
[14:21] <jcastro> jamespage: where else? should I post it somewhere?
[14:21] <jamespage> jcastro, raywang pinged me about it as well
[14:21] <jamespage> thats where I raised that bug from
[14:21]  * jcastro nods
[14:21] <jamespage> I pulled back the point release to ensure it got included
[14:41] <X-warrior`> marcoceppi: yes, I created a service but I forgot to add a 'relation joined' on it to provide the service address
[14:46] <hazmat> marcoceppi, pong
[14:46] <marcoceppi> hazmat: hey, just got your ping from a day ago
[14:46] <marcoceppi> 2 days*
[14:47] <hazmat> hmm.. that thought is paged to disk
[14:47] <hazmat> oh..
[14:47] <hazmat> marcoceppi, i was wondering about getting juju-plugins up to snuff
[14:47] <marcoceppi> hazmat: sure
[14:47] <hazmat> i'm currently tossing tangentially related plugins into deployer
[14:48] <hazmat> but some are not.. and i'm wondering if we should fold everything into something like juju-plugins
[14:48] <marcoceppi> hazmat: I've got juju-plugins already, it's really light weight, but I'm happy to beef it up in terms of adding more plugins to it
[14:48] <hazmat> some of the packaging dependencies might increase though depending on the plugin
[14:49] <marcoceppi> hazmat: I was considering doing a package per plugin, with a "juju-plugins-all" package to install all plugins
[14:49] <hazmat> marcoceppi, the juju-faststat plugin for example from the ml.. is a nice speed focused status replacement for the moment.
[14:49] <marcoceppi> hazmat: just to keep the list of dependencies down for single plugins
[14:49] <hazmat> marcoceppi, package per plugin sounds bad..
[14:49] <hazmat> er. overkill
[14:50] <marcoceppi> hazmat: okay
[14:50] <marcoceppi> well if
[14:51] <marcoceppi> well it's a trade off then, lots of deps, or bunch 'o packages
[14:51] <marcoceppi> I'm fine either way, whichever convention makes the most sense
[14:56] <marcoceppi> hazmat: right now they're just all in one package
[14:56] <marcoceppi> so we can just keep it that way
[15:26] <X-warrior`> this is my 2 metadata.yaml ( http://pastebin.com/KbXLkQ4K ), if I would like to add a relation from service to authserver, where authserver will provide it ip address ... does the authserver needs a hooks/authserver-relation-joined and the service needs a hook hooks/authserver-relation-changed. And the commmand should be 'juju add-relation authserver service'
[15:38] <marcoceppi> X-warrior`: Pretty much, you can get the IP address of a current running unit with `unit-get private-address` so your hooks/authserver-relation-joined hook would look like `relation set hostname=$(unit-get private-address)` and the authserver-relation-changed on the other service would havethe following `relation-get hostname` to recieve that value
[15:38] <marcoceppi> X-warrior`: however, unless it truely implements the HTTP protocol (which requires both a port and hostname to be set) I'd recommend naming the interface something different
[15:39] <marcoceppi> using the HTTP interface tells juju that your authserver could work with haproxy, varnish, etc. If that's not the case you'll want to use a different interface name
[15:39] <marcoceppi> If that is the case you'll want to make sure you set both the hostname and the port options in the relation-set command
[15:40] <marcoceppi> likewise, your service charm requring the http interface means it could connect to wordpress, mediawiki, and a majority of other charms and be able to handle that data properly. So, if that isn't the case, you'll want to do what I recommended above and create a new interface name (or find an existing interface that matches what you're trying to do)
[15:40] <marcoceppi> Since the interface name is what juju uses to match charms with each other
[15:43] <X-warrior`> marcoceppi: could I name it with any name as I want?
[15:43] <marcoceppi> X-warrior`: yup! Anything that makes sense to what that interface is for
[15:44] <marcoceppi> X-warrior`: so you could call it "authserver" as the interface, then the first metadata.yaml relation name could be server and the second one's relation name could client
[15:44] <marcoceppi> X-warrior`: interface could be authserver for both, but you could name the relations in a way that makese sense of what the role of the relation is to the charm
[15:44]  * marcoceppi creates an example paste
[15:45] <marcoceppi> X-warrior`: http://pastebin.com/iUVJb6Fk
[15:46] <marcoceppi> X-warrior`: I wouldn't use such a generic name as "authserver", unless you can make the interface generic, If it's a particular authentication softare, like ldap, I'd name the interface ldap or something similar
[15:46] <marcoceppi> X-warrior`: the interface should embody exactly it's purpose. So we have generic interfaces, like http, and specific ones, like mysql or pgsql
[15:47] <marcoceppi> X-warrior`: while the name is up to you, we do prefer people to name them wisely, at least for the store.
[15:47] <marcoceppi> If these are just for you, you can do whatever
[15:47] <marcoceppi> FOr the store we'd prefer it to be more specific, but again it's up to you
[15:48] <X-warrior`> for now I'm just running more tests to understand how it works
[15:48] <X-warrior`> but I know what you mean
[15:48] <X-warrior`> :D
[15:55] <X-warrior`> marcoceppi: the test worked destroying the machines and redeploying...
[15:55] <marcoceppi> X-warrior`: sweet!
[15:55] <X-warrior`> ty
[15:55] <X-warrior`> :D
[16:16] <X-warrior`> What does the 'IDEMPOTENCY' means? I mean, let's say I have a hook to a db relation changed... and this hook add the options (login, pass, dbname, etc) to a file... if it is idempotent the login, pass, dbname will not be updated. So I'm not sure I understand what does the "# IDEMPOTENCY is very important in all charm hooks, even the install hook. " means from https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/authors-charm-writing.html
[16:17] <jrwren> it means it can run again with the same result.
[16:17] <jrwren> where same result means it doesn't hurt either.
[16:17] <jrwren> so I can run it 100 times and everything is still good.  It has a much nicer computer science definition which you are free to google.
[16:18] <X-warrior`> well the definition means it will be exactly the same.
[16:19] <X-warrior`> But on a relation-changed event... if you do it, it will preserve the values that was there before it calls the hook... so it doesn't make sense to me
[16:19] <X-warrior`> le
[16:26] <marcoceppi> X-warrior`: idempotency means with the same set of parameters, the hook will produce the same results
[16:26] <X-warrior`> marcoceppi: ty
[16:41] <m_3> bbcmicrocomputer: please mark reviews in progress when you start them this week
[16:41] <m_3> so we won't step on each others toes
[16:41] <jcastro> fwereade: heya
[16:42] <jcastro> or jam
[16:43] <bbcmicrocomputer> m_3: ok, sure
[17:20] <mrsolo> hi where does juju store ssh private-key?
[17:22] <mrsolo> nm got it
[18:40] <fwereade_> jcastro, heyhey
[18:42] <jcastro> fwereade_: hey so I was wondering when we can default to the local provider
[18:42] <jcastro> but I think we can do that at the distro level instead of upstream?
[18:43]  * jcastro needs to ask jamespage
[18:43] <fwereade_> jcastro, to be fair, I should not be trusted with anything distro-related
[18:44] <jcastro> fair enough ... James Page it is!
[19:03] <jamespage> jcastro, ?
[19:04] <jcastro> jamespage: hey so I was thinking, we should default to local in juju in the distro
[19:05] <jcastro> instead of "amazon"
[19:05] <jcastro> so when someone apt-get install's juju
[19:05] <jcastro> they can deploy right away without anything else
[19:05] <jamespage> jcastro, is that not driven by their environments.yaml?
[19:06] <jcastro> it is
[19:06] <jcastro> but by default right now it's "amazon"
[19:06] <jamespage> ah
[19:06] <jamespage> hmm
[19:06] <jcastro> jamespage: also, out of curiosity .. do we need all 61MBs of mongodb-clients?
[19:07] <jcastro> seems like a rather heavy dep ...
[19:07] <jamespage> jcastro, yeah - that does suck
[19:07] <jamespage> I'll take a look
[19:07] <jamespage> juju generate-config generates environments.yaml tho
[19:08] <jamespage> jcastro: so I think thats a change in juju-core right?
[19:08] <jamespage> we can Recommend: juju-local from juju which means by default you get the local provider
[19:08] <jcastro> ok
[19:08] <jcastro> I was unsure if this would be an upstream thing or a distro thing, the choosing of a default
[19:09] <jcastro> I think I'll just ping thumper when he comes online and ask him to do it
[19:25] <jamespage> jcastro, ack
[19:28] <jam> jamespage: recommending juju-local means that by default you end up with a mongodb-server running on your local machine (even before "juju bootstrap") because of how the mongodb-server package works
[19:28] <jam> which I *think* defaults to 3GB prealloc
[19:28] <jamespage> jam: yep
[19:28] <jamespage> ouch
[19:28] <jamespage> OK - I won't do that
[19:28] <jamespage> jcastro, that makes making local the default tricky
[19:29]  * jcastro nods
[19:29] <jam> jamespage: I'm not positive about the 3GB prealloc, but I am sure that you end up with mongodb running on a port nobody will connect to.
[19:29] <jcastro> hey so could we do it so if you install juju by itself
[19:29] <jcastro> it does what it does now
[19:29] <jamespage> jam: that rings a bell - I had issues with the DEP-8 tests I wrote because it won't start on a 2GB root
[19:29] <jcastro> but if you install juju-local we do the right thing to make it spin up local with no config other than installing the package?
[19:30] <jam> jamespage: I know you can configure with or without prealloc, I'm just not sure what the .deb default is today.
[19:30] <jamespage> realloc
[19:30] <jamespage> prealloc rather
[19:30] <jamespage> jcastro, you still get a mongodb-server running in the background that no-one is actually using...
[19:30]  * jcastro nods
[19:31] <jcastro> ah nuts ... :-/
[19:31] <jamespage> jcastro, if we had thought about this a bit harder I'd have split the binary into a monogodb-server-common package
[19:31] <jamespage> and then just install the init script in the mongodb-server package
[19:31] <jcastro> jamespage: so it's probably better to leave that an explicit decision by the user then?
[19:31] <jamespage> jcastro, I think so yes
[19:31] <jcastro> jamespage: is that something we can do post-13.10 bute pre-14.04 you think?
[19:31] <jamespage> yes
[19:32] <jcastro> ok .... /me PUNTS the ball
[19:33] <jam> jamespage: it would be nice that if you "apt-get install juju-local" you would end up with an environments.yaml that points to local
[19:33] <jamespage> jam: that involves a package manipulating user data != no go
[19:33] <jam> jcastro: I think there is a bug about switching to local by default because we know you have those creds. And if bootstrap doesn't work we could tell you about the apt-get juju-local package.
[19:34] <jam> jamespage: I did say "would be nice" but even if "juju init" does that bit
[19:34] <jcastro> I remember filing a bug with thumper @ IOM, but I haven't been able to find it all day
[19:39] <jackweirdy> Hey all; I'm entering the charm championship and I'm having trouble with Juju - I'm running 13.04 on the stable juju ppa. I'm running kvm and I was wondering if I could configure an environment to spin up a new VM in KVM when I run juju deploy? I've found docs for stuff like OpenStack, but that's a bit heavyweight for what I want :)
[19:40] <jackweirdy> (unless it's not? I'm new to all this so I may have the wrong end of the stick :) )
[20:05] <jackweirdy> Googling suggests this isn't possible :s Can I add custom environment handlers?
[20:09] <jam> jackweirdy: juju has support for LVM containers, we haven't yet implemented KVM support
[20:10] <jam> you can install "juju-local" from the ppa, and then set up a "local" environment.
[20:11] <jackweirdy> Ok; thanks anyhow :)
[20:11] <jackweirdy> Does the local environment use lxc?
[20:20] <sinzui> Hi charmers, login to manage.jujucharms.com is broken at the moment. Those already logged in can feature and QA charms. We expect a fix in a few hours
[20:48] <adam_g> hazmat, darwin merged to lp:juju-deployer
[21:14] <xnox> jam: LVM is a type of volume/disk storage, it's not a container....
[21:14] <xnox> jackweirdy: yeap local environment uses lxc.
[21:18] <thumper> morning
[21:18] <bac> hi thumper


[10:33] <Robert78> How to verify the bootable *.iso on a CD? I'm afraid of breaking CD or something like that... I'd like to check if CD and its data are OK but don't know how.
[10:35] <gnrp> Robert78: What is it you want to verify?
[10:35] <gnrp> you can make a checksum of the whole CD and compare that to the iso's checksum
[10:35] <Robert78> I've made a bootable CD in xfburn, and I'm going to use it some day, but I'm afraid that I'll break CD or damage it
[10:36] <Robert78> I did 'dd if=/dev/sr0 of=copy.iso' but the file sizes of isos' are different
[10:36] <Robert78> the original iso is 3 MB shorter than copy.iso
[10:37] <Robert78> I've read on the Internet that their filesize is always going to be different... so... checksum is not solution I guess...
[10:37] <gnrp> hm. Try `sha256sum /dev/dvd` and then also a sha256sum of the iso image
[10:37] <gnrp> or use the `cmp` tool
[10:39] <Robert78> anyway it is different...
[10:39] <Robert78> d84c99784ceb1f2e9044ba7387bf92ef17db8400883f6c1ff6580d899ae406e9  /dev/dvd
[10:39] <Robert78> 03d3ec50bce69eb13a406ac2cf8a4c3cb2b2e1fa58d257ea4f366469cbf091eb  mini.iso
[10:45] <gnrp> then I'd say it is actaully different. But please do not trust me.
[10:46] <gnrp> I mean, wait for somebody else to pass by and give an opinion on that
[10:48] <Robert78> OK, I've read that the trailing bytes might be just zeroes, that's why it might be always "different"
[11:13] <Robert78> Well, I found a pretty weird solution! :D  I burnt the iso second time and checked sha256sum again, and it was the same as was on the first attempt
[11:13] <Robert78> so... it makes me think the DVD is completely fine :D
[12:35] <khaled14> hi
[14:19] <deadrom> hi
[14:20] <deadrom> where can I get a more recent xfce for 18.04LTS?
[14:22] <deadrom> currently installed is 4.12 as comes with 18.04, I'd like one that has monitor profiles. Will 4.14 do that?
[14:35] <brainwash> deadrom: it will
[14:37] <brainwash> deadrom: next LTS release in April will ship with 4.14
[14:38] <deadrom> brainwash: "wait until april" just doesn't ring nice in my ears. any other option? preview ppa? I saw "staging" but says "warning, might explode" in a nuthsell
[14:38] <deadrom> nutshell even
[14:39] <brainwash> right
[14:39] <brainwash> either use the PPA or upgrade to the 20.04 dev release
[14:39] <brainwash> well, or 19.10 actually
[20:00] <xubuntu18w> hello all
[20:00] <xubuntu18w> I am unable to install wine or playonlinux\
[20:01] <xubuntu18w> I have 18.04 lt version
[20:01] <xubuntu18w> Does anyone have any sugestions?
[20:02] <Alabalistic> how do you try to install them
[20:02] <Alabalistic> via Terminal is bad idea, go to the website
[20:02] <Alabalistic> download the last deb, or add the repo


[00:08] <menn0> wallyworld: I've been consistenly getting these for a while on the develop branch: http://paste.ubuntu.com/25266422/
[00:08] <menn0> just rebased and I'm still getting them
[00:09] <wallyworld> interesting ok. haven't seen those
[00:09] <wallyworld> oh wait
[00:09] <wallyworld> that i think is a mongo bug
[00:10] <wallyworld> we needed to upgrade to 3.2 to solve it
[00:10] <wallyworld> it happened on 2.4 in CI
[00:10] <wallyworld> but since using 3.2 it hasn't been seen since
[00:10] <menn0> wallyworld: that makes sense. the machine i generally run tests on has 2.4
[00:11] <menn0> wallyworld: we still need to support 2.4 b/c of trusty
[00:11] <wallyworld> sure, but if there's a mongo bug....
[00:11] <menn0> wallyworld: what's the bug?
[00:11] <wallyworld> i can't recall now, i'd have to google it
[00:12] <menn0> wallyworld, axw, babbageclunk: big model refactoring (part 1/2): https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/7710
[00:12] <menn0> wallyworld: never mind
[00:12] <menn0> wallyworld: about the bug, not the review
[00:12] <wallyworld> :-)
[00:13] <wallyworld> menn0: "which meant that the Model referred to a state.State associated with the correct model."  <----- that should be "incorrect" right?
[00:13] <menn0> wallyworld, axw, babbageclunk: and just remember it was 10x more painful for me to make these changes than it will be for you to review them :)
[00:13] <menn0> wallyworld: yes!
[00:13]  * menn0 fixes
[00:19] <babbageclunk> menn0: Oh wow, sounds like a fun change
[00:20] <wallyworld> menn0: i wish we didn't have *both* Tag() and UUID() methods at the sate layer - should be UUID() only. tags are for the apiserver layers
[00:20] <menn0> wallyworld: I completely agree but they've got their little taggy claws in everywhere now
[00:21] <wallyworld> yeah i know :-(
[00:21] <wallyworld> just having a bitch
[00:21] <wallyworld> i once had a gf like that
[00:23] <wallyworld> menn0: although in places in this PR the UUID() variant could easily be used instead
[00:23] <menn0> wallyworld: yes there are
[00:23] <menn0> wallyworld: I had to draw a line somewhere
[00:23] <wallyworld> that is true
[00:24] <menn0> wallyworld: if I have the energy after getting rid of State.GetModel, I'll try and tidy that up too
[00:24]  * menn0 makes note
[00:24] <wallyworld> sgtm
[00:24] <wallyworld> tbh, getting rid of ForModel() makes me very happy
[00:24] <menn0> me too
[00:24] <menn0> I wasn't even aiming to do that but it just fell out
[00:30] <wallyworld> menn0: just going to standup, left an initial comment
[00:31] <menn0> wallyworld: ok thanks
[01:29] <thumper> axw: quick question for manual provisioning, the user on the host needs to have sudo permissions (I'm assuming) to configure the service, but does it have to be passwordless sudo?
[01:31] <axw> thumper: no, the process will set up passwordless if it's not done already: https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/develop/environs/manual/sshprovisioner/sshprovisioner.go#L31
[01:31] <thumper> sweet
[01:31] <thumper> ta
[01:32] <wallyworld> menn0: quick chat? easier than typing into a pr
[01:32] <axw> babbageclunk: FYI, you'll need to use a proxy for external access on that MAAS: http://squid.internal:3128
[01:32] <axw> babbageclunk: otherwise LXC containers won't start
[01:32] <babbageclunk> axw: ooh, thanks.
[01:32] <axw> babbageclunk: and if you didn't already find out, it's ppc64el-only
[01:34] <babbageclunk> axw: Ahh, just saw your reply about the staging key - thanks
[01:34] <axw> np
[02:11] <menn0> wallyworld: now ok?
[02:13] <wallyworld> menn0: sure, griday ho?
[02:14] <menn0> wallyworld: ok
[02:25] <thumper> OH FFS
[02:25] <thumper> every time I'm about to start writing this spec, I end up replying to another email
[02:26] <thumper> now I get my physio reminder
[02:26] <thumper> I feel I'll be back in the evening to work on this spec, and disconnect email
[02:37] <babbageclunk> griday ho
[02:41] <anastasiamac> babbageclunk: glad u said it :D
[02:58] <axw> babbageclunk: in case you missed it, PTAL at https://github.com/juju/1.25-upgrade/pull/13 when you have some time
[02:58] <babbageclunk> axw: sorry, I did miss it - will go through it in a bit.
[02:59] <axw> babbageclunk: aw crap I just realised, this isn't going to work on the MAAS thumper provided, because it's ppc64el... the upgrade command assumes the client and server are the same arch
[02:59] <axw> le sigh
[03:00]  * axw wonders if the controllers we intend to upgrade are amd64
[03:00] <babbageclunk> axw: oh yeah, that's annoying.
[03:19] <thumper> babbageclunk: griday?
[03:20] <babbageclunk> thumper: sure
[03:20] <thumper> I don't get it
[03:20] <babbageclunk> 14:13 <wallyworld> menn0: sure, griday ho?
[03:21] <wallyworld> sigh
[03:21] <anastasiamac> :D
[03:21] <wallyworld> "g" and "f" are next to each other
[03:21] <wallyworld> you all know what i meant
[03:21] <thumper> oh...
[03:21] <anastasiamac> comic relief is nice this windy tuesday :D and yes, we did and that only helped the laughter
[03:22] <thumper> I didn't notice that wallyworld said it first
[03:22] <babbageclunk> It was just enough typos and jargon that it tickled me.
[03:22] <thumper> I thought it was a reference to me...
[03:22] <babbageclunk> It can be.
[03:42] <wallyworld> veebers: is the landing bot down?
[03:42] <veebers> wallyworld: let me have a look, you have a link to what you're trying to land?
[03:44] <wallyworld> veebers: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/7708
[03:45] <veebers> I'll take a look
[03:46] <wallyworld> ta
[03:54] <veebers> wallyworld: that should be unstuck now
[03:54] <wallyworld> aesome ty
[03:55] <wallyworld> so it is
[04:01] <bradm> is there anything I can look at to see why a juju status is taking a long time?  this stack is taking anywhere between 7 and 9 minutes just on a bare juju status
[04:18] <wallyworld> bradm: status is somewhat inefficient, especially on large models. there are plans to fix it but right now there's not much that can be done. it is worse if the controller is dealing with a lot of traffic like config change processing etc. it is better in juju 2.2.2 than other versions but still not great
[04:21] <bradm> wallyworld: this is 2.2.2, about 50 machines
[04:21] <bradm> wallyworld: and about 80 lxds on the machines it looks like
[04:21] <wallyworld> it's more the number of apps and units
[04:21] <bradm> its an openstack deploy, so its not tiny
[04:22] <wallyworld> that would do it
[04:23] <wallyworld> sadly there's nothing that can be done until a fix lands in a future release
[04:24] <bradm> it seems like a machine-0 restart helps for a bit, but it gets worse over time
[04:25] <wallyworld> sadly yes
[04:25] <wallyworld> veebers: tests passed but merge failed :-( http://juju-ci.vapour.ws:8080/blue/organizations/jenkins/github-merge-juju/detail/github-merge-juju/97/pipeline
[04:26] <bradm> the other problem is out of all those hundred or so units, one has decided its going to use its ipv6 address for juju, is there any way to fix that?
[04:33] <veebers> wallyworld: looking
[04:41] <veebers> wallyworld: rats, sorry about that, need to re-run it now. But the merge will work this time around
[04:42] <wallyworld> ok
[05:01] <veebers> wallyworld: that's done now
[05:01] <wallyworld> great ty
[05:02] <veebers> wallyworld: nw, sorry for the hassle there
[05:02] <wallyworld> shit happens
[05:44] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: maybe i can swap you reviews? this is proposed against a branch of my fork because i'm waiting on a review of that upstream branch before it can be landed https://github.com/wallyworld/juju/pull/44
[05:44] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: sure!
[05:44] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: also I need to do one for axw
[05:45] <wallyworld> so many reviews - we must be doing work or something
[06:06] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: lgtm but with a request to change the constructor - hope it makes sense
[06:10] <wallyworld> axw: witg bug 1706535, to refresh my memory, it's just a matter of setting the upgrade step against 2.2.3 version i think?
[06:10] <mup> Bug #1706535: Upgrading juju 2.2.1 to 2.2.2 fails on Azure and vSphere <juju:Triaged by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1706535>
[06:11] <axw> wallyworld: 2.2.2, but otherwise yes
[06:11] <wallyworld> axw: 2.2.2 is released, so it has to be 2.2.3
[06:11] <wallyworld> i guess it doesn't matter really
[06:11] <axw> wallyworld: no... because we don't need 2.2.2 to run the step
[06:12] <axw> i.e. if you upgrade 2.2.2 to 2.2.3, it shouldn't run
[06:12] <wallyworld> right ok. but it will be run from 2.1.x to 2.2.3
[06:12] <axw> wallyworld: right, and (crucially) also 2.2.0 and 2.2.1 to 2.2.3
[06:13] <axw> it was those ones for which it was broken
[06:13] <axw> was/is
[06:13] <axw> brb, vbox wants me to restart
[06:19] <wallyworld> axw: not sure if you'll get a chance to look at the 2nd pr today? where the macaroon auth is wired up? i re-targetted to develop since the other branch landed earlier. maybe in between tasks? thanks for reviewing the first one
[06:20] <axw> wallyworld: not sure yet, I'm flailing with the LXC-on-MAAS testing. I'd like to make some progress here
[06:20] <wallyworld> sure np
[09:35] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: Sorry, I got pulled onto kid duty but I'm going through that PR now - hope I'm not doubling up with axw!
[09:36] <axw> babbageclunk: nope
[09:36] <babbageclunk> cool cool
[09:40] <babbageclunk> axw: I'm looking at your PR next if it's still waiting. :)
[09:40] <axw> babbageclunk: thanks, it is - but it can wait until tomorrow. no rush
[09:40] <babbageclunk> ok
[09:40] <wpk> babbageclunk is on review-frenzy ;)
[09:41] <axw> babbageclunk: I'm trying to get a vMAAS set up, that other one seemed to be a waste of time
[09:41] <babbageclunk> axw: yeah, that architecture thing really stymies it.
[09:42] <babbageclunk> axw: I was thinking you could point it at another (cross-compiled) binary to do the hash, but it's a waste of time unless we actually need to do the upgrade on other archs.
[09:43] <axw> babbageclunk: I did do that, but ended up with other issues that looked like ppc64 bugs. didn't want to spend too much time on it unless I can repro in another MAAS
[09:44] <babbageclunk> oh stink
[09:45] <babbageclunk> wpk: my power level's over 9000!
[22:09] <wallyworld> menn0: if i take a review or 2 off your plate tomorrow, could i ask you to review this for me? https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/7711 also, did you need me to look again at that pr from yesterday? I think your were going to tweak some stuff right
[22:09] <wallyworld> hml: free now for a bit
[22:10] <hml> wallyworld: standup ho?
[22:10] <wallyworld> ok
[22:10] <menn0> wallyworld: will take a look
[22:10] <wallyworld> \o/
[22:10] <menn0> wallyworld: I'll have that other PR updated soon. will ping you.
[22:22] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: hey, did you see my responses on https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/7712?
[22:23] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: i did and as soon as i finish talking to heather was going to ping you
[22:23] <babbageclunk> wallyworld: :)
[22:24] <wallyworld> babbageclunk: wanna jump into the standup ho, almost done
[23:04] <menn0> wallyworld: review done
[23:08] <wallyworld> menn0: awesome just finished talking to eric, looking now. eric will be ready to do stuff for you today or tomorrow
[23:15] <wallyworld> menn0: i have another PR stacked on top of the one you reviewed. i'll make the changes in that one and merge them in one go. otherwise i'll get lots of conflicts
[23:15] <wallyworld> thanks again for looking
[23:25] <anastasiamac> wallyworld: since u r talking to everyone today, could i take a ticket and stnad in line too, plz?


 valorie and myriam's terms on the KC have been extended. Darin has been added
 @DarinMiller congrats :)
 Welcome @DarinMiller delighted you're joining the council
[07:52] <valorie> Thanks for that, RikMills
[11:20] <mparillo> https://kubuntu.org/news/kubuntu-20-04-5-lts-update-available/
[20:39] <valorie> I'm off at the cabin for a few days (Labor Day weekend) later today


[00:02] <viewer|41> Hello
[00:03] <viewer|41> I try make folder on my second hardrive and is in root only how i can give me access
[00:29] <mzamreal> hello guyss
[00:29] <mzamreal> newbie here :D
[01:20] <saifeddine> hello
[07:36] <user|30745> New user...is this where I can report a problem with Kubuntu 20.04 ?
 Yes
[07:38] <user|30745> Great...Wifi working great till I connect a BT device...BT worked fine but Wifi disconnected and could not reconnect till I disable BT and Restart.
 This is odd
[07:41] <Maik> if it's a bug see here on how to report it: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Bugs
[07:42] <user|30745> Yes...I can reproduce it...more specificaly, Wifi loop endlessly trying to reconnect.
[07:42] <user|30745> OK thanks
 At least you can avoid to restart everytime, maybe just close the session and start a new one
[07:54] <user|30745> I did...problem persist.
[07:56] <Maik> then file a bug report and discribe it as good as you can. Also include your system info and specs. :)
[10:15] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[10:18] <lundrvs> hello
[10:39] <Taggnostr2> hello
[10:40] <Taggnostr2> I just upgraded to 20.04, and noticed that in konsole, when I select "monitor for silence" it no longer shows an icon on the silent tab, so I have no way to know which tab went silent.  Do you know how to get the icon back?
[10:54] <Taggnostr2> it seems related to https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1792681
[11:40] <Conna> KDE Plasma is better than Windows 7-10 <3
[11:41] <Conna> I love you KDE Plasma
[13:45] <tomreyn> I believe that scams will be scams
[13:48] <Kalov> i dislike a lot bitcoins
 Apa kau terjebak di rumah karena epidemi? … It doesn't matter! Bergabunglah di mall kami dan buat 600.000RP-1.000.000RP per hari dari telepon rumah.  … Tambahkan WhatsApp kami: +62 858 6777 3332  untuk bergabung dengan tim kami segera, dan anda dapat membuat uang dengan telepon selular anda setiap hari! Dengan kesempatan uang 100 persen, anda bisa mendapatkan mobil dalam sebulan
[14:11] <BluesKaj> !indonesian
[14:12] <BluesKaj> @Elies ^
 @Elies, Please help to report spam
 Please help to report spam


[17:00] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is knome
[21:10] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Seed octavia packages @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=8ea6920be0a0f82f001c37679ff2303820c22759 (by Corey Bryant)
[21:17] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Seed python3-ovn-octavia-provider @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=c1d870f5d5c18e9251d1b468f1f2051a71fb7304 (by Corey Bryant)


[00:41] <Neosano> Hello, arrrrghhh, where can I report goddamn bugs
[00:44] <Neosano> oh.. come on.. there's must be this LARGE button "REPORT A BUG"
[00:44] <Neosano> because If I wont find a place to report it I'll just let it be there..
[00:45] <Neosano> there's a launchpad on Lubuntu and there's a bugs tab...
[00:45] <Neosano> but there are only 2 bugs submitted ?  Can lubuntu "remind" and reopen when turning on the programs I had when I switch the PC off? Thanks in advamce
[02:47] <juanantonio3> KDE, Gnome and Xfce can
[02:50] <juanantonio3> There someone?
[02:58] <bonny> hey no one here likes to answer ive been lookin for help too go to /join #ubuntu
[06:34] <sonicj> hi! im installing right now on a piii dinosaur and so far, im very impressed!
[06:35] <sonicj> i can't believe this 600mhz machine is running this good from a live cd & 640mb!
[06:37] <sonicj> keep up the great work! =D
[08:24] <head_victim> My laptop's power saving mode is 600mhz, it doesn't even kick up to the 1 or 1.2 ghz that is it's max much.
[08:53] <bioterror> MHz!
[08:53] <bioterror> these things are case sensitive ;)
[08:54] <Unit193> MhZ ;)
[09:04] <MrChrisDruif> mHz :P
[09:07] <head_victim> bioterror: it constantly confuses me so I don't capitalise unless I know I'm sure :/
[09:07] <bioterror> GHz, MHz
[09:08] <head_victim> The whole mb and Mb and MB thing has destroyed me ever understanding these things. All I remember is the more that's capitalised the better it is ;)
[09:09] <bioterror> byte and bit
[09:10] <head_victim> Yeah this is where my "end user" status really shows :/
[09:11] <bioterror> b stands for bit and B stands for byte.
[09:11] <head_victim> Yeah and I now know byte is 8 bits?
[09:11] <head_victim> But yeah took me forver to get my head around. I never really looked into it early enough I guess.
[09:12] <bioterror> I think there should be just one standard
[09:12] <bioterror> like metric system ;D
[09:13] <head_victim> Would really assist people like me. So when people say "I have a 20 mbps internet connection" I've learnt that my 4 MBps is better.
[09:13] <bioterror> 24Mbit
[09:14] <bioterror> it's 2400kb/s or something like that :D
[09:14] <bioterror> or K/s :D
[09:14] <bioterror> depends who has written the application which measures current transfer speed :D
[09:15] <head_victim> And still some people truncate the 1024 to 1000 to just confuse it further
[12:57] <filo1234> Hi guys
[12:57] <MrChrisDruif> Hai filo1234
[12:58] <filo1234> Someone know where lxdm gets informatione like date and hour or image positions on login screen?
[12:58] <MrChrisDruif> Time might be from bios
[13:00] <filo1234> yes but there is some script for display it on login, isn't there?
[13:00] <MrChrisDruif> I guess so
[13:01] <filo1234> for example I'll like to hide Desktop session  and modify login filed position... but i don't know where it gets them
[13:08] <MrChrisDruif> There must be some script or init file or something, but I don't know the dark vowels of technical files.....at least not which one you should be looking at :)
[13:10] <filo1234> MrChrisDruif: i'm looking all system, but i don't find any infos
[13:10] <filo1234> :D
[13:10] <MrChrisDruif> Might be hidden files ;)
[13:11] <filo1234> MrChrisDruif: them too :D
[13:11] <MrChrisDruif> Not sure, but will probably unhidden with Ctrl+H
[13:11] <MrChrisDruif> Ow...owkay :)
[13:12] <filo1234> i found only how to hide bottom panel or language chhoser on /etc/xdg/lubuntu/lxdm/lxdm.conf
[13:12] <filo1234> no more interesting things for me :(
[13:47] <filo1234> MrChrisDruif: found it!
[13:47] <filo1234> :p
[13:47] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, where was it?
[13:49] <filo1234> it was in /usr/share/lxdm/themes/Lubuntu/greeter.ui
[13:49] <filo1234> in that file there are all information and format login screen
[13:50] <MrChrisDruif> Alright...awesome :)
[13:53] <filo1234> :)
[14:38] <lumus> hi all
[14:38] <lumus> how can i create an application launcher ?
[14:39] <lumus> every time i want to run Jin, i cd to that folder and type ./jin , so i want to create a launcher instead of it...Can anybody help here?
[14:39] <bioterror> hmmm
[14:40] <bioterror> sudo cp jin /usr/local/bin/
[14:40] <bioterror> sudo chmod + x /usr/local/bin/jin
[14:42] <lumus> well , i'm an absolute beginner. i didn't get the second command
[14:42] <bioterror> sorry
[14:42] <bioterror> sudo chmod +x /usr/local/bin/jin
[14:42] <lumus> what's that x for ?
[14:42] <bioterror> x like EXECUTE!
[14:43] <lumus> ok
[14:43] <bioterror> gives to that file permission to be executed
[14:44] <bioterror> now you can just run a command
[14:44] <bioterror> next you might want to have it in a menu?
[14:44] <lumus> commands worked fine so far.
[14:44] <lumus> yes?
[14:45] <bioterror> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentation/FAQ there's 3.2.
[15:16] <filo1234> Hey guys, can someone pastebin me his /usr/share/lxdm/themes/Lubuntu/greeter.ui please? I have broked my own :|
[15:22] <filo1234> solved
[15:22] <filo1234> :p
[16:33] <juanantonio3> Hello. I got a little problem, got a lubuntu-based PC (no W$) and I have changed the CDROM and inserted a DVDRW unit, but luuntu cannot see it, what can I do?
[16:37] <juanantonio3> Someone helping?
[16:47] <leszek> hi
[17:17] <kalib> Hi people.
[17:17] <kalib> Would lubuntu run ok on a AMD Semprom(tm) 2800 with 256 of RAM?
[17:22] <Mark76> Should do
[20:15] <Samuel__> hello everyone
[20:16] <wolfpaclk> hi Samuel__
[20:16] <Samuel__> anyone with some more in depth lubuntu knowledge?
[20:37] <Samuel__> is this a active channel or is it just to early/late?
[20:38] <emce_PL> it depends
[20:38] <emce_PL> sometimes it's active
[20:38] <emce_PL> sometimes not
[20:38] <emce_PL> :D
[20:38] <Samuel__> indeed refreshing answer :p
[20:39] <emce_PL> you're welcome
[21:41] <bonny> how do i install opera
[21:43] <bioterror> add debian repository
[21:45] <Unit193> bioterror: Not this? http://www.ubuntuupdates.org/ppas/15
[21:45] <bonny> im using lubuntu
[21:45] <bioterror> that's techically for debian ;)
[21:45] <bioterror> but yeah, that one
[21:52] <bojc> hi
[21:52] <bojc> I have a problem
[21:52] <bojc> hehe
[21:53] <bojc> I installed lubuntu
[21:53] <bojc> and I want use compiz with it
[21:53] <bojc> is it posible?
[21:53] <bioterror> why not
[21:53] <bioterror> but what are the benefits?-)
[21:54] <bojc> thnaks for a quick answer but
[21:54] <bojc> ok I'll try to explain
[21:55] <bojc> I have problem runing skype+pulseuadio
[21:55] <bojc> so decided to instal distro without pulseaudio
[21:55] <bojc> that means lubuntu or mint 9 xfce
[21:56] <bojc> a chose lubuntu
[21:58] <bojc> so
[21:59] <bojc> I want to compensate visual handicap by installing compiz
[22:00] <bojc> Today I installed compiz, try to run form terminal
[22:00] <bojc> and got this : compiz (core) - Warn: No GLXFBConfig for depth 32
[22:00] <bojc> Launching fallback window manager
[22:01] <bojc> there is no way to start compiz in lubuntu
[22:01] <bioterror> what does google say about the warning?
[22:02] <bojc> same thing to all
[22:02] <bojc> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1703665
[22:02] <bojc> that is most rescent post
[22:03] <bioterror> have you made xorg.conf?
[22:03] <bioterror> and defined your color depth
[22:04] <bojc> bojc@bojc-eMachines-E430:~$ sudo Xorg -configure
[22:04] <bojc> [sudo] password for bojc:
[22:04] <bojc> Fatal server error:
[22:04] <bojc> Server is already active for display 0
[22:04] <bojc> 	If this server is no longer running, remove /tmp/.X0-lock
[22:04] <bojc> 	and start again.
[22:04] <bojc> Please consult the The X.Org Foundation support
[22:04] <bojc> 	 at http://wiki.x.org
[22:04] <bojc>  for help.
[22:04] <bojc>  ddxSigGiveUp: Closing log
[22:04] <bioterror> !paste | bojc
[22:05] <bioterror> go to tty1, sudo service lxdm stop
[22:05] <bioterror> sudo Xorg -configure
[22:05] <bioterror> sudo mv xorg.conf.new /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[22:09] <bioterror> and you can start lxdm
[22:09] <bioterror> after that
[22:09] <bioterror> ofcourse you should edit xorg.conf before starting
[22:09] <bojc> what is ttyl
[22:09] <bioterror> virtual console
[22:10] <bojc> sorry, I am begginer
[22:10] <bojc> ok I am doing now
[22:20] <bojc> and now please help me to confiure xorg.cong
[22:30] <bojc> does anybody know how to configure xorg.conf in lubuntu in order to work with compiz


[05:46] <Umeaboy> Hi!
[05:46] <Umeaboy> Am I the only one not receiving any mail to download po files from the launchpad web ui?
[05:52] <Umeaboy> I click on Download translation and then on the next page I click on Request Download and wait....... No email.
[05:52] <Umeaboy> I haven't had this issue before.


[07:56] <meena> someone wanna do some editing to make this a bit more readable? https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/issues/4043#issuecomment-1680103576
[07:56] -ubottu:#cloud-init- Issue 4043 in canonical/cloud-init "Don't Break On Duplicate Mac Addresses" [Open]
[11:23] <meena> would changing the tests that currently use Bash, even tho they don't need it, to use sh, speed up the test suite?
[14:49] <ShaneAH> Hi All, I'm still working on building a golden image that mounts var partitions and I'm getting very close. I am trying to mount the partitions very early on in the packer process so I mount everything to an alt_var run a tar command to copy existing var folders to alt_var and then I'm using sed to change fstab from mounting alt_var to mounting var
[14:49] <ShaneAH> and then reboot the packer VM to continue the configuraiton process.  The problem I'm currently running into is that when I reboot the VM cloud-init is running and removing my changes to fstab and re-applying the /alt_var mountpoint.  My understanding is that cc_mounts.py is per instance, how does cloud-init determine if the instance scripts have
[14:49] <ShaneAH> already been executed?
[14:51] <minimal> ShaneAH: by the instance-id indicated in the meta-data
[14:52] <minimal> if a previous instance-id has been recorded and then a new one is provided then obviously it is a change in instance-id and all per-instance modules need to be run
[14:54] <minimal> as I indicated to you previous, when building any "golden" image cloud-init should be cleaned at the end of the process so that upon boot of any VM creating using the golden image there is *no* instance data from any previous cloud-inits present and cloud-init then runs per-instance modules
[14:54] <ShaneAH> is that the guid recorded here? /var/lib/cloud/instances/8457ac95-cbe8-474b-a1ae-6185007a12c7
[14:54] <ShaneAH> understood but I am in the middle of building that image.  I do have cleanup once the image is complete.
[14:55] <minimal> have you cleaned up cloud-init at the end of your golden image creation?
[14:55] <ShaneAH>  "sudo cloud-init clean --logs --machine-id --seed",
[14:55] <ShaneAH>         "sudo rm -rf /var/lib/cloud/",
[14:55] <ShaneAH>         "sudo systemctl stop walinuxagent.service",
[14:55] <ShaneAH>         "sudo rm -rf /var/lib/waagent/",
[14:55] <ShaneAH>         "sudo rm -f /var/log/waagent.log",
[14:55] <ShaneAH>         "sudo rm -f /var/lib/systemd/random-seed",
[14:55] <ShaneAH>         "sudo rm -f /var/lib/systemd/credential.secret"
[14:55] <minimal> ok, this is happening during creation?
[14:55] <ShaneAH> correct.
[14:55] <ShaneAH> I'm trying to get /var on a mount point in the middle of my golden image build.
[14:55] <minimal> so then I assume the instance-id will not have changed and per-instance modules won't be run
[14:56] <ShaneAH> One would think not but I'm trying to confirm.  I'm running a packer -debug session trying to capture things before and after the boot.  I'm just uncertain what defines a new instance.
[14:56] <minimal> have you looked at the cloud-init logfile?
[14:57] <ShaneAH> Yep, and I see cc_mounts.py running twice.  Once on inital boot of the packer VM and then again after rebooting.
[14:57] <minimal> how are you providing metadata/user-data/network-config during the Packer run?
[14:58] <minimal> the logfile will show whether cloud-init determines if the instance-id has changed or remains the same
[15:01] <ShaneAH> 2023-08-16 14:14:48,138 - stages.py[DEBUG]: previous iid found to be NO_PREVIOUS_INSTANCE_ID
[15:01] <ShaneAH> 2023-08-16 14:14:50,113 - stages.py[DEBUG]: previous iid found to be 8457ac95-cbe8-474b-a1ae-6185007a12c7
[15:01] <ShaneAH> I'm using the custom_data_file in the azure-arm source to provide a file to cloud-init.
[15:01] <minimal> a user_data file?
[15:02] <minimal> so Azure is providing the meta-data?
[15:02] <ShaneAH> Hmm...
[15:02] <ShaneAH> yes, I believe the answer is yes.
[15:03] <minimal> if which case they decide whether to provide the same instance-id or not across reboots
[15:03] <ShaneAH> cloud-init query --all right?
[15:04] <ShaneAH> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Aug 16 14:19 data
[15:04] <ShaneAH> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Aug 16 14:14 handlers
[15:04] <ShaneAH> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   61 Aug 16 14:19 instance -> /var/lib/cloud/instances/8457ac95-cbe8-474b-a1ae-6185007a12c7
[15:04] <ShaneAH> drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Aug 16 14:14 instances
[15:04] <ShaneAH> drwxr-xr-x 6 root root 4096 Aug 16 14:14 scripts
[15:04] <ShaneAH> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Aug 16 14:14 seed
[15:04] <ShaneAH> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Aug 16 14:15 sem
[15:04] <ShaneAH> packer@pkrvmclv34au9u3:/var/lib/cloud$ cloud-init query --all | grep instance
[15:04] <ShaneAH>    "instance-id": "8457ac95-cbe8-474b-a1ae-6185007a12c7",
[15:04] <ShaneAH>  "instance-id": "8457ac95-cbe8-474b-a1ae-6185007a12c7",
[15:04] <ShaneAH>  "instance_id": "8457ac95-cbe8-474b-a1ae-6185007a12c7",
[15:04] <ShaneAH>  "userdata": "<redacted for non-root user> file:/var/lib/cloud/instance/user-data.txt",
[15:04] <ShaneAH>   "instance-id": "8457ac95-cbe8-474b-a1ae-6185007a12c7",
[15:04] <ShaneAH>   "instance_id": "8457ac95-cbe8-474b-a1ae-6185007a12c7",
[15:04] <ShaneAH>  "vendordata": "<redacted for non-root user> file:/var/lib/cloud/instance/vendor-data.txt"
[15:05] <ShaneAH> so it looks like the same instance id right?
[15:07] <minimal> in cloud-init.log you may see things like "__init__.py[DEBUG] Update datasource metadata and network config due to events: boot-new-instance"
[15:08] <ShaneAH> meeting just started, I'll look for that in just a bit.
[16:15] <ShaneAH38> hmm, seems libera may not like that I connected to VPN. :(
[16:42] <ShaneAH38> The instance id doesn't seem to have changed, what else would cause cloud-init to think it needs to re-run the config?
[17:08] <ShaneAH38> for giggles I rebooted the VM again while waiting at a debug point in packer and cloud-init again re-wrote the fstab file.
[17:08] <minimal> if it doesn't believe the instance-id has changed then I wouldn't expect it to run per-instance modules, it may run other types of modules however
[17:09] <ShaneAH38> cc_mounts is per instance right?
[17:09] <minimal> that's what the docs say
[17:10] <ShaneAH38> I cloned the repo as well and "frequency" is per instance...
[17:10] <minimal> and cloud-init.log will also state that
[17:11] <ShaneAH38> so it seems there is something odd about the instance detection.
[17:12] <minimal> why? you haven't provided any cloud-init.log file to look at
[17:15] <minimal> in cloud-init.log do you see "helpers.py[DEBUG]: config-mounts already ran (freq=once=-per-instance)" ?
[17:16] <ShaneAH38> I can absolutely do that, is ther eanything that should be scrubbed?
[17:17] <minimal> you can run "cloud-init collect-logs" which I believe if "-u" is *not* specified should exclude sensitive info
[17:17] <ShaneAH38> I don't see helpers.py but I do see handlers.py
[17:18] <ShaneAH38> ok, sec.
[17:19] <ShaneAH38> do people usually post the entire tar.gz?
[17:19] <minimal> typically there would be a "handlers.py[DEBUG]: finish: init-network/config-mounts: SUCCESS: config-mounts previously ran" line immediately after that one
[17:20] <minimal> it is recommended to add that to any Github Issue raised
[17:22] <ShaneAH38> I see several "previously ran" but none for config-mounts.
[17:22] <ShaneAH38> grep "previously ran" cloud-init.log  | grep mounts shows nothing
[17:23] <minimal> I'm shooting in the dark without seeing the logfile
[17:23] <ShaneAH38> working on that now.
[17:27] <ShaneAH38> sigh, uploads failing.
[17:33] <blackboxsw> ShaneAH38: as mentioned by minimal the cloud-init clean will trigger the instance-id to be set to NO_PREVIOUS_INSTANCE_ID again so that'd also cause all modules to re-run. as well.  And beyond that meta-data changing the `instance-id` value to a different UUID will also trigger such a PER_INSTANCE event.
[17:34] <ShaneAH38> Well, and paste.opendev won't let me put the whole log in there...
[17:34] <blackboxsw> ShaneAH38: If you are collecting install logs from your packer install and trying to track instance-id changes across the fully deplyoment for filing an issue in github, I'd suggest not running providing the `--logs` to cloud-init clean as you'd likely want to preserve those early install stage logs to see how many instance-id triggers were present through your install and reboot.
[17:35] <ShaneAH38> blackboxsw thanks for the info.  And yes, I see the first instance of NO_PREVIOUS_INSTANCE_ID but the reboot does show an instance-id that exists and if I query metadata after the reboot the instance-id is the same as the instance folder.
[17:37] <ShaneAH38> Would it be appropriate for me to start a github issue so that I can upload the log files there?
[17:37] <blackboxsw> "do people usually post the entire tar.gz?"  generally to a github issue if filed.   One thing to peek at for credentials leaks would be the file /run/cloud-init/instance-data-sensitive.json and or /var/log/cloud-init.log to ensure passwords aren't represented in user-data in the tar.gz
[17:43] <blackboxsw> ShaneAH38: yes let's start with a github issue explaining your deployment and if it needs to go to support type discussions we can go from there to other channels where appropriate
[17:44] <blackboxsw> falcojr: holmanb the more I read https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/4325 and the original bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init/+bug/2012044 , the more I don't want to try supporting images with a python source installed version of cloudinit from a deb-package postinst. There are so many places for that to fall over or not cover corner cases.
[17:44] -ubottu:#cloud-init- Pull 4325 in canonical/cloud-init "check whether old version is empty in postinst" [Open]
[17:44] -ubottu:#cloud-init- Launchpad bug 2012044 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "/var/lib/cloud/data/upgraded-network file touched after apt install cloudinit" [Low, Triaged]
[17:46] <blackboxsw> I don't know if I'm just being grumpy, but it feels out of typical support scenarios to tell folks they can create an image with an unpackaged version of cloudinit from source and also expect to upgrade to a newer packaged version of cloudinit and expect that to work out of the box.
[17:48] <blackboxsw> talk me down if that feels like a reasonable solution/use-case for folks in various distributions `python3 setup.py install cloud-init; apt/yum/zypper install cloud-init`
[17:49] <ShaneAH38> Issue created. https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/issues/4359
[17:49] -ubottu:#cloud-init- Issue 4359 in canonical/cloud-init "Rebooting VM during packer build causes cloud-init to run instance modules again" [Open]
[17:51] <blackboxsw> my shallow guess in this space would be that someone interested in source installed software would typically continue to upgrade that package from source as needed and avoid the distribution packages altogether
[17:51] <blackboxsw> . A transition from source installl to distro deb/rpm-based packages is something that represents adoption of a different packaging and delivery vehicle for their software that likely will always need manual interaction at some level
[17:52] <minimal> blackboxsw: agreed. We've already seen that the cloud.cfg contents for Debian packaged c-i is quite different than for upstream. Likewise probably for at least some other distros
[17:52] <blackboxsw> thanks ShaneAH38 for the issue, it'll better help triage what's going on there
[17:54] <minimal> blackboxsw: and indeed it's possible a distro packaged c-i may alternatively use /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg.d/ files to override cloud.cfg and so that may also have an impact then on behaviour
[18:03] <minimal> ShaneAH38: the info in your issue shows Packer doing a "sed" on /etc/fstab to change /alt_var entries to /var - but there's no info on how those entries end up in fstab in the first place and what their contents are
[18:11] <ShaneAH38> minimal that's in the description of the issue.  I put the cloud-init file I'm sending to packer.
[18:11] <ShaneAH38> mounts:
[18:11] <ShaneAH38>  - [ "/dev/disk/azure/scsi1/lun0-part1", "/alt_home", "auto", "defaults,nofail", "0", "2" ]
[18:11] <ShaneAH38>  - [ "/dev/disk/azure/scsi1/lun0-part2", "/alt_tmp", "auto", "defaults,nofail", "0", "2" ]
[18:11] <ShaneAH38>  - [ "/dev/disk/azure/scsi1/lun0-part3", "/alt_var", "auto", "defaults,nofail", "0", "2" ]
[18:11] <ShaneAH38>  - [ "/dev/disk/azure/scsi1/lun0-part4", "/alt_var/log", "auto", "defaults,nofail,x-mount.mkdir", "0", "2" ]
[18:11] <ShaneAH38>  - [ "/dev/disk/azure/scsi1/lun0-part5", "/alt_var/log/audit", "auto", "defaults,nofail,x-mount.mkdir", "0", "2" ]
[18:11] <ShaneAH38>  - [ "/dev/disk/azure/scsi1/lun0-part6", "/alt_var/tmp", "auto", "defaults,nofail,x-mount.mkdir", "0", "2" ]
[18:13] <ShaneAH38> and the log file at 2023-08-16 14:19:03,095 shows those being replaced.
[18:13] <ShaneAH38> 2023-08-16 14:19:03,095 - cc_mounts.py[DEBUG]: Changes to fstab: ['- /dev/disk/azure/scsi1/lun0-part1 /home auto defaults,nofail,comment=cloudconfig 0 2', '- /dev/disk/azure/scsi1/lun0-part2 /tmp auto defaults,nofail,comment=cloudconfig 0 2', '- /dev/disk/azure/scsi1/lun0-part3 /var auto defaults,nofail,comment=cloudconfig 0 2', '-
[18:13] <ShaneAH38> /dev/disk/azure/scsi1/lun0-part4 /var/log auto defaults,nofail,x-mount.mkdir,comment=cloudconfig 0 2', '- /dev/disk/azure/scsi1/lun0-part5 /var/log/audit auto defaults,nofail,x-mount.mkdir,comment=cloudconfig 0 2', '- /dev/disk/azure/scsi1/lun0-part6 /var/tmp auto defaults,nofail,x-mount.mkdir,comment=cloudconfig 0 2', '+
[18:13] <ShaneAH38> /dev/disk/azure/scsi1/lun0-part1 /alt_home auto defaults,nofail,comment=cloudconfig 0 2', '+ /dev/disk/azure/scsi1/lun0-part2 /alt_tmp auto defaults,nofail,comment=cloudconfig 0 2', '+ /dev/disk/azure/scsi1/lun0-part3 /alt_var auto defaults,nofail,comment=cloudconfig 0 2', '+ /dev/disk/azure/scsi1/lun0-part4 /alt_var/log auto
[18:13] <ShaneAH38> defaults,nofail,x-mount.mkdir,comment=cloudconfig 0 2', '+ /dev/disk/azure/scsi1/lun0-part5 /alt_var/log/audit auto defaults,nofail,x-mount.mkdir,comment=cloudconfig 0 2', '+ /dev/disk/azure/scsi1/lun0-part6 /alt_var/tmp auto defaults,nofail,x-mount.mkdir,comment=cloudconfig 0 2']
[18:13] <minimal> that's the user-data you're using *before* you reboot the VM? or provided to both pre-reboot and post-reboot?
[18:13] <minimal> also please don't post large amounts of text in IRC
[18:13] <ShaneAH38> so the reboot does not change any userdata.
[18:13] <ShaneAH38> (sry)
[18:14] <ShaneAH38> there's not really an opportunity to change it in the packer process.
[18:16] <minimal> so during the reboot the fstab will contain entries for the disk's partitions with /var mountpoints and the user-data will contain entries for mounting the *same* disk partitions on /alt_var
[18:16] <ShaneAH38> correct.
[18:17] <minimal> so are you expecting as the end result the fstab to have both /var and /alt_var entries for the *same* partitions?
[18:17] <ShaneAH38> I'm expecting to only have /var not the /alt_ partitions after the reboot.
[18:17] <ShaneAH38> I was not expecting cloud-init to run again.
[18:17] <ShaneAH38> (well at least not the instance specific modules)
[18:19] <minimal> I assume it is to do with these being Azure ephemeral disks
[18:19] <minimal> I see disk_setup also ran
[18:19] <ShaneAH38> right, I saw that.
[18:22] <minimal> earlier in the logs there are lines relating to the Azure DS that indicate that NTFS cannot be mounted
[18:22] <ShaneAH38> so the disks I'm creating are not ephemeral...So are you saying that cloud-init is going to run like a Desired State Configuration system and continuously try and apply it's settings?
[18:22] <ShaneAH38> Yeah, I saw that also and just havne't chased that down yet.
[18:23] <minimal> and there's reference to "sem" files fro both disk_setup and mounts not existing
[18:23] <ShaneAH38> I'm not messing with the ephemeral stuff
[18:24] <ShaneAH38> let me put the fstab in the github issue
[18:24] <minimal> that would help
[18:24] <ShaneAH38> done.
[18:24] <ShaneAH38> Other than the partitions I'm not trying to be clever
[18:25] <ShaneAH38> FWIW I really do appreciate your assistance, I'm not sure how I would proceed so thanks.
[19:57] <ShaneAH1> minimal you mention sem files but I'm not following.
[20:02] <meena> blackboxsw: if these patches of mine ever get merged https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=273122 we could consider running tests on Cirrus CI on FreeBSD, as a stop gap until i got the lxd stuff done
[20:02] -ubottu:#cloud-init- bugs.freebsd.org bug 273122 in Ports & Packages "lang/python311: backport netlink support" [Affects Only Me, In Progress]
[20:08] <minimal> meena: with #4348 TestGetProcPpid.test_get_proc_ppid_ps is failing for me on Alpine. Seems to be due to choice of options passed to "ps" - I suspect Busybox's ps doesn't support some of them
[20:08] <minimal> will investigate further
[20:10] <minimal> ShaneAM1: was referring to the lines "DataSourceAzure.py[DEBUG]: Marker "/var/lib/cloud/instances/sem/config_mounts" for module "mounts" did not exist. And the similar line regarding disk_setup
[20:18] <meena> minimal: i checked the man page before confidently declaring it should work everywhere
[20:18] <minimal> meena: if actually seems that is_Linux isn't giving the expect result for Alpine
[20:19] <minimal> and so get_proc_ppid_ps is called, not get_proc_ppid_linux
[20:19] <minimal> ?
[20:19] <minimal> oops
[20:19] <meena> how?
[20:20] <minimal> don't know, that's the only explanation as to why get_proc_ppid_ps is being called when I'm building on Alpine
[20:21] <meena> weird.
[20:23] <minimal> the testcase is test_get_proc_ppid_ps
[20:23] <minimal> and is_Linux is mocked
[20:25] <minimal> and "m_is_Linux.return.value = False" in the testcase so it acts as though it is not linux
[20:26] <minimal> so the testcase then calling get_proc_ppid will result in that calling get_proc_ppid_ps
[20:28] <ShaneAH1> minimal The instance at 2023-08-16 14:14:50,405 is the initial boot of the packer vm.  If I look in the /var/lib/cloud/sem folder I only see one file config_scripts_per_once.once
[20:30] <minimal> which then uses subp to execute "ps" with the "-p" option which is not recognised by Busybox ps
[20:30] <minimal> meena: you checked the *GNU* ps manpage? or also the Busybox manpage? ;-)
[20:31] <minimal> but I also don't understand why a testcase for a function, get_proc_ppid_ps, that is not intended to be used on Linux is then running that function of Linux...
[20:34] <meena> minimal: busybox
[20:49] <minimal> meena: https://busybox.net/Dwonloads/Busybox.html#ps only shows "-o" and "-T" as supported options
[20:49] <minimal> oops, https://busybox.net/downloads/BusyBox.html#ps
[20:50] <minimal> but I don't understand why the "ps" isn't mocked in the testcase
[20:56] <meena> because /proc isn't mocked either
[20:57] <meena> anyway, it looks like i smashed ps & pscan
[21:19] <ShaneAH1> FWIW I removed all of my partition manipulation except for home so now there is only a single partition that I am trying to mount.  I was hoping that maybe something odd was happening given that I was working with var but the same behaviour exists.
[21:33] <dbungert> minimal: I'm poking around on the UEFI / grub seed question - what does seed mean there?  I have a guess but wanted to hear your elaboration.
[21:49] <minimal> dbungert: there are several ways to seed the Linux kernels' entropy
[21:49] <minimal> one of those from the UEFI itself - a bootloader (if it supports this) can pass it also to the kernel
[21:54] <minimal> dbungert: I *think* this might be systemd-bootd's equivalent: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/main/src/boot/efi/random-seed.c
[21:57] <minimal> meena: I added "procps-ng" package to the Alpine package's "checkdepends" to install the full version of "ps" during testing
[22:01] <meena> minimal: i think i would rather fix that test to exclude alpine. since it has a working /proc
[22:03] <minimal> don't all Linux distros have a working /proc?
[22:17] <minimal> dbungert: this is related<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[22:18] <minimal> "Note that the config table could be generated by the EFI stub or by any other UEFI driver or application (e.g., GRUB)"
[23:23] <meena> https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/commit/8a70dbc49e609ac900b5f7b5b4358b0ccaf6c4aa#r124702899
[23:23] -ubottu:#cloud-init- Commit 8a70dbc in canonical/cloud-init "util: Fix get_proc_ppid() on non-Linux systems (#4348)"
[23:24] <meena> minimal: re proc: i guess? I don't know. I spend way too much time in FreeVSD land


[06:29] <Burgundavia> Laser_away: I just got an away message from Matt. He is back the 29th
[06:29] <Burgundavia> evening Madpilot
[06:29] <Madpilot> hi Burgundavia
[11:53] <HighBit> RIP lilo :(
[11:54] <ompaul> there is true


[09:11] <Garibel> Hi everyone, I have an ubuntu 12.04 armel and I'd like to upgrade to a 14.04 armhf, is there anyway to do without reinstalling the whole system?
[09:51] <ogra_> Garibel, nope


[17:24] <crankharder> this config, saved in /etc/init/god.conf, doesn't start god on startup - http://pastie.org/973453 -- I even added "start on startup" and nothin -- everything else seems to be fine, starting, stopping, respawning are fine but only after I manually start it myself the first time -- any ideas what i'm doin wrong?
[17:51] <JanC> crankharder: what version of upstart are you using?
[18:10] <crankharder> JanC: 0.6.5
[18:10] <crankharder> I ended up adding "start on (net-device-up and local-filesystems)" to the top of the file and that makes it work
[18:10] <crankharder> ...i'm not sure both of those are necessary, I just stole the line from the mysql.conf
[18:20] <JanC> depends on when you want it to start...
[18:23] <crankharder> if the machine boots into RL2 why isn't it getting started by 'start on runlevel 2'
[18:37] <JanC> there are no runlevels anymore  ;)
[18:37] <JanC> they are just faked by events
[18:38] <JanC> and you did have multiple "start" stanzas
[19:08] <crankharder> JanC: is that now allowed?
[19:09] <JanC> no, that's why it didn't work


[04:33] <mup> Bug #1959739 opened: Can't unset a VLAN name via the websocket API <websocket-api> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1959739>
[22:35] <mup> Bug #1959856 opened: newly added tags in UI don't show until refresh/page change <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1959856>


[01:59] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[03:37] <marcoagpinto> Olá!
[04:17] <wyoung> Afternoon!
[04:58] <ducasse> good morning
[06:14] <lordievader> Good morning
[06:27] <wyoung> Good afternoon!
[18:50] <[VMGuy23]> best non-chromium browser?
[18:51] <nicomachus> firefox
[18:51] <[VMGuy23]> Any others? i don't like firefox
[18:54] <lotuspsychje> links2
[18:54] <nicomachus> lol
[18:56] <nicomachus> [VMGuy23]: outside of text-only browsers, most all browsers are either built on top of chromium or firefox. you can try something like opera or even edge, but they're still built on top of chromium or firefox engines.
[18:57] <[VMGuy23]> Edge and Opera are both Chromium-based
[18:57] <[VMGuy23]> The reason why I don't want chromium-based is that they won't load webpages, not even show the loading icon
[19:32] <daftykins> well that sounds like a much more major issue
[19:34] <[VMGuy23]> Yeah, Brave might work... but the 1min startup is too much
[19:35] <daftykins> is this a steam powered PC?
[19:54] <[VMGuy23]> No, it's a snap
[19:54] <sarnold> it might be worth filing a bug and asking them to switch to lz4 compression for their snap
[20:03] <[VMGuy23]> Most chromium-based snaps are like this, Opera suffers aswell
[20:08] <daftykins> the other day you commented on software instability and issues - and i really don't think they're things others encounter, so i was asking about the PC because i think something sounds very wrong
[20:19] <[VMGuy23]> It's a 2019 Acer laptop, Aspire 3
[20:24] <daftykins> not very useful, system specs would be
[20:27] <[VMGuy23]> AMD Ryzen 3 3200u (i think) CPU with built-in AMD Radeon Vega Mobile GFX
[20:28] <[VMGuy23]> 16GB of RAM, it came with 4GB
[20:38] <ogra> if you want a fast browser take this ... https://snapcraft.io/mosaic ...
[20:39] <ogra> (only text-only browsers are faster)
[20:39] <[VMGuy23]> A modern browser
[20:39] <[VMGuy23]> Not that thing that can't display webpages properly
[20:39] <ogra> yeah, admittedly the web looks a bit greyish in it 😄
[20:40] <[VMGuy23]> yeah
[20:40] <ogra> (but it fully supports HTTP 1.0 from 1997 !!!)
[20:41] <[VMGuy23]> I mean, any not-Chromium  modern and good browsers? I dont like firefox's look
[20:42] <ogra> i guess thats your only two options apart from packaging somethig webkit based yourself
[20:42] <ogra> (webkit is well alive and kicking, but i dont think there are any browsers left that actually build on top of it)
[20:42] <[VMGuy23]> GNOME Web is a working browser
[20:43] <ogra> isnt that blink (chromium) based ?
[20:43] <[VMGuy23]> I don't know
[20:43] <[VMGuy23]> but got to go, be on 5PM UK time tommorow
[20:44] <ogra> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME_Web
[20:44] <ogra> there you go, it still uses webkit
[20:59] <daftykins> there's so little on-screen that isn't the page you're viewing, i don't get having an issue with a browser's appearance
[21:09] <sarnold> gotta have a button to let you fiddle with noscript and privacybadger settings
[21:15] <daftykins> :)
[21:48] <JanC> KDE also still has a webkit-based browser, I think?
[21:50] <JanC> and there is surf, luakit, qutebrowser, etc.
[21:51] <ogra> oh, awesome, i didnt know webkit still had that many users
[21:51] <JanC> but none of the Gtk/Qt webkit browsers support things like DRM'ed streaming, I think
[21:51] <JanC> so if you need that...
[21:51] <ogra> yeah
[21:52] <sarnold> qutebrowser looks nice, but I don't think I could really feel safe using a mostly-unmaintained rendering toolkit
[21:53] <ogra> (though widevine streaming isnt really great anyway ... i prefer to get more than SD quality so i rearely bother to stream netflix or amazon under linux)
[21:53] <JanC> ogra: others don't have those limits with Widevine
[21:53] <ogra> "others" ?
[21:54] <JanC> like some TV stations & such
[21:54] <ogra> ah, yeah ...
[21:54]  * ogra uses vdr for in-house TV streaming 😉
[21:54] <ogra> https://snapcraft.io/vdr-server
[21:54] <ogra> shameless plug 😉
[21:55]  * sarnold looks for a slot..
[21:55] <ogra> haha
[21:55] <JanC> those TV stations get forced to use DRM for some things, but don't really care themselves
[21:58] <JanC> you can "find" almost everything from Netflix/Amazon/etc. in 4K for free, so apparently those "superior" DRM used for higher resolutions are completely useless, and I don't understand why they even bother...