[12:05] <Riddell> sabdfl: most of #kubuntu-de doesn't agree with the kubuntu.de situation
[12:06] <Razor-X> (Done.)
[12:06] <sabdfl> Riddell: by "the situation" you mean that the web page currently redirects to some other place?
[12:06] <sabdfl> Razor-X: thank you, good point
[12:06] <Riddell> sabdfl: I mean the statement that was on there before
[12:06] <mitsuhiko> sabdfl: to a completly unknown webpage full of gnome users ^^
[12:06] <mitsuhiko> (but the webpage is blue ^^)
[12:06] <Riddell> I also spoke to someone who's name was on there but didn't know what the grivances were about
[12:07] <SHAKAL> lol mitsuhiko
[12:07] <sabdfl> is it specifically amu and \sh that are upset and have taken this action? or is it a wider issue?
[12:07] <smurf> sabdfl: right now there's no place for that discussion to happen, other than an IRC channel and a few non-kubuntu specific forum sites
[12:08] <Riddell> sabdfl: I think it's amu who's upset, and he's convinced other people
[12:08] <sabdfl> what i saw previously was amu being very upset because we had not been fast enough in responding to sysadmin requests
[12:08] <rockin_stan> sabdfl: i do not think it is a wider issue
[12:08] <mitsuhiko> sabdfl: afair only amu. \sh joined him a few hours later
[12:08] <mitsuhiko> the rest of the subscribers was the kubuntu.de forum team
[12:08] <sabdfl> he had a reasonable grievance, but i think the response was out of proportion
[12:08] <Riddell> sabdfl: sysadmin and I think he also e-mailed silbs about some business stuff
[12:08] <Riddell> with no response
[12:08] <sabdfl> i'm not aware of that
[12:08] <smurf> sabdfl: +1
[12:09] <Lure> sabdfl: +1
[12:09] <sabdfl> i'll email both amu and \sh and offer an olive branch
[12:09] <sabdfl> both have done huge amounts for (k)ubuntu
[12:09] <sabdfl> so lets not lose sight of this
[12:09] <mdke> a lot of it sounds like it's about money, getting reimbursed for the website and being paid for developing kubuntu. highvoltage's blog post was the wisest comment I've read on it
[12:09] <sabdfl> yes, well said highvoltage
[12:09] <smurf> sabdfl: one of amu's assertions is that some KDE developers will not go near Gnomeish sites (for user support, among other things)
[12:09] <Riddell> mdke: no, I don't think that's the case at all
[12:10] <smurf> I think what we need to find out is whether that problem is "real"
[12:10] <highvoltage> mdke, sabdfl: thank you.
[12:10] <mitsuhiko> smurf: +100
[12:10] <mdke> Riddell, well, the sysadmin request problem disappeared and the other grievances remained, which seemed to me to be about money. But you will know more
[12:11] <mako> sabdfl: i think an email from you would be the best way forward
[12:11] <sabdfl> alright, the main thing i wanted to establish is if we have a broader dissatisfaction in the kubuntu german community, or if it is focused around amu and \sh. it sounds like a specific issue, and i will reach out to try and resolve it
[12:11] <sabdfl> the domain issue is interesting
[12:11] <sabdfl> we do generally ask folks to transfer ubuntu domains to us to avoid something like this
[12:11] <Riddell> amu did complain about a domain squatter, which I've not heard anything else about
[12:11] <sabdfl> they have effectively ripped the carpet out from under their own community
[12:11] <mitsuhiko> sabdfl: those are many
[12:11] <Riddell> I noticed that amu registed kubuntu.eu
[12:11] <sabdfl> which is not wise
[12:12] <smurf> sabdfl: amu did demand that we remove "kubuntu" from ubuntuuser.de's "official support forum for ..." list
[12:12] <Seveas> smurf, I found those demands ridiculous, I don't get why they want kubuntu to be completely separate
[12:12] <rockin_stan> oh yes, he did :/
[12:12] <Riddell> smurf: that's a fair request, kubuntu.de was the official kubuntu support site until he closed it
[12:12] <Riddell> Seveas: they don't
[12:12] <sabdfl> we should guard against an "ubuntu vs kubuntu" issue, smurf, so lets just be firm in maintaining the position that ubuntu is about the whole project, including kubuntu
[12:12] <smurf> Riddell: official as designated by whom?
[12:12] <lucasvo> I thought kubuntu is property of Canonical? So he shouldn't be the one registering kubuntu.eu and demanding to remove it from ubuntuusers.de
[12:13] <smurf> sabdfl: exactly
[12:13] <Seveas> Riddell, their mails seemed to say so
[12:13] <juliux> Seveas, hm because amu want to have a link to his onlineshop on the site?
[12:13] <sabdfl> ok, i'm traveling a lot in the next 10 days but will try and get to the bottom of this
[12:13] <Riddell> smurf: kubuntu.org/support.php
[12:13] <sabdfl> what would you guys see as a satisfactory resolution - the domain pointing back where it was? where is the content that was there?
[12:13] <Riddell> link to kubuntu.de now removed
[12:14] <Riddell> sabdfl: it's on amu's server
[12:14] <Seveas> Riddell, why have they never applied to be an official locoteam?
[12:14] <Riddell> sabdfl: it would be nice to have the site back up and with it pointing to ubuntuusers.de and vice versa
[12:14] <mdke> +1
[12:14] <Riddell> I'll be surprised if that can happen, a good amount of trust has been lost
[12:14] <sabdfl> was kubuntu.de a community site with wiki and forums etc?
[12:14] <sabdfl> or just content?
[12:15] <Riddell> sabdfl: forums and mailing list
[12:15] <mitsuhiko> sabdfl: a forum since amu couldn't work together with ubuntuusers.de
[12:15] <juliux> sabdfl, there are also mailinglists on kubuntu.de
[12:15] <sabdfl> ok
[12:16] <mindspin> most will move to kubuntuusers.de
[12:16] <tonyyarusso> highvoltage: +1 on that.  I would help with the image of support from Greater Ubuntu / Canonical.
[12:16] <juliux> sabdfl, and they have the control about #kubuntu-de
[12:16] <Riddell> Seveas: they did, they went through me, that's the process for kubuntu
[12:16] <Yann2> just to write how it's going in France: we'll have a kubuntu team, which will have rw on the site ubuntu-fr.org; they'll be in charge for kubuntu promotion on ubuntufr's website.
[12:16] <Riddell> juliux: ultimately I'm the freenode contact for #kubuntu* namespace
[12:16] <mdke> Riddell, that's not so good. locoteams should be encouraged to deal with kubuntu and ubuntu (and others) together, I feel, if at all possible.
[12:17] <juliux> Riddell, ah ok
[12:17] <smurf> Yann2: that would be our preferred solution too
[12:17] <sabdfl> well, i'm sorry that this has happened, but it seems to be more growing pain than major crisis. let's see if an olive branch helps. their status as anything official "kubuntu"-ish does depend on the CC, so we should be able to work something out
[12:17] <Riddell> mdke: I insist upon it
[12:17] <Riddell> mdke: but amu is a special case since he started kubuntu, I let him do his own thing
[12:17] <mdke> ah, right.
[12:17] <sabdfl> ok folks, i'm out of time. elmo, mako, sorry to duck off but thank you for steering!
[12:17] <mdke> Riddell, so, having a separate channel for "officialdom" is a bad idea in general, but an exception was made for -de?
[12:17] <mako> sabdfl: i have no doubt that we could work something out on our end
[12:18] <mako> alright
[12:18] <ogra> sabdfl, enjoy the rest of your evening
[12:18] <Riddell> mdke: are you talking about IRC?
[12:18] <mitsuhiko> cya sabdfl
[12:18] <mako> lets see what else we can cover
[12:18] <mdke> Riddell, no, LoCo teams in general
[12:18] <mako> we should probably still plan to get together later this week to do member processing :)
[12:18] <mako> more meetings
[12:18] <mako> yay
[12:19] <mitsuhiko> mako: as long it's not on friday :)
[12:19] <Riddell> mdke: meeting is moving on, poke me on #ubuntu-devel if you want to discuss
[12:19] <mdke> Riddell, sure
[12:19] <mako> someone wants to know the official trademark usage guidelines
[12:19] <mako> from canonical
[12:19] <mako> those are actually online
[12:19] <Yann2> that's me
[12:20] <mako> http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/TrademarkPolicy
[12:20] <mako> now
[12:20] <Yann2> You want to use the logo in a desktop background. Go right ahead! You can even share your work by listing it on our artwork page
[12:20] <Yann2> :/
[12:21] <mitsuhiko> yay. thats a problem
[12:21] <mitsuhiko> since some people make derived work based on the ubuntu logo
[12:22] <AndreaVeri> mako ,membership apprival postponed to?
[12:22] <AndreaVeri> *approval
[12:22] <smurf> ... and some of these derived works (try to) convey political messages we do NOT want to be associated with
[12:22] <mako> there seems to be a specific question about using the ubuntu logo to promote particular political positions
[12:22] <tonyyarusso> Maybe there needs to be something like the US obscenity law for that, "we know it when we see it", for what's not okay in desktop backgrounds, with some pointers but open-ended.
[12:22] <mako> AndreaVeri: a later (undecided) date
[12:22] <AndreaVeri> ok perfect
[12:22] <mitsuhiko> this one: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=37620
[12:22] <ogra> smurf, ah, come on it was just a very bery bad april fools joke ... the guy s a big ubuntu fan
[12:22] <mitsuhiko> smurf: exactly
[12:23] <eyequeue> mako, so am i here inappropriately?
[12:23] <tonyyarusso> mako: Some political positions should be fine, but others are considered to be enough of a problem to be illegal in many counries, and that's a bit different.
[12:23] <mako> eyequeue: not inappropriately
[12:23] <carthik> Enforcing legit usage of the logos and trademarks (Ubuntu/Kubuntu etc) could avoid issues of "squatting" and uglification. But I guess it's not easy to enforce trademarks, like many patents.
[12:23] <mako> eyequeue: we just ran out of time with the full voting board
[12:23] <kjcole> Some problems also are a matter of taste/humor:  When does one take it as a true political statement (or whatever) or as a bit of fun -- however questionable?
[12:23] <smurf> ogra: which doesn't prevent other people from taking it seriously and asking pointed questions about it
[12:23] <ogra> smurf, true ...
[12:24] <mako> so here's the deal
[12:24] <Yann2> ogra > are both april jokes?
[12:24] <mdke> Yann2, you might want to write up some of the potential problems you envisage in a bit more detail, and present it to the CC when the ideas are nice and concrete.
[12:24] <ogra> but with a bit of research they would have found that he has just a bad sense of umor
[12:24] <mako> the trademark is designed primarily to keep people from getting confused
[12:24] <mako> what we really really don't want
[12:24] <mako> is for people to take their distribution
[12:24] <mako> that is not ubuntu
[12:24] <ogra> Yann2, nope, i havent seen the fridge one
[12:24] <mako> and to call it ubuntu
[12:24] <mako> and to confuse people into thinking that it's the one that we put together, with support, a coc, etc
[12:24] <mitsuhiko> ogra: i found out that too. but that doesn't solve to problem as such
[12:25] <Yann2> I meant this : http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=37620
[12:25] <smurf> ogra: people who are easily offended by that sort of thing are notoriously bad at researching :-/
[12:25] <ogra> mako, but we want to encourage people like http://www.nubuntu.org/
[12:25] <mako> the point is not to make a situation where canonical is the only person who can talk about ubuntu or use the image
[12:25] <gnomefreak> im all for creativity but i think some of the images that were pointed to on the agenda wiki should have been kept off public display it makes ubuntu look bad to people that didnt know it was a "joke"
[12:25] <ogra> smurf, true as well
[12:25] <mako> what we don't want is for someone to put up a website
[12:25] <mako> maybe selling a service or support
[12:25] <tonyyarusso> gnomefreak: Agreed.  And for many people, those things can never be a joke.
[12:25] <mako> and confusing people into thinking that it is official ubuntu support
[12:25] <mako> control over the name and logo is one way to do that
[12:26] <mako> but we want to encourage the types of uses that spread the word, the logo, and the name
[12:26] <xorAxAx> isnt this whole thing about a guy who realised that he cannot continue to move his idea further on without co-operating with the big entity?
[12:26] <Yann2> ok, so we should accept these derivations?
[12:26] <mako> when it's used in reference to the actual product
[12:26] <mako> so, http://www.nubuntu.org/ needs to get permission from canonical
[12:26] <mako> imho
[12:26] <lucasvo> I think gnome-look.org should look that they only offer politically correct themes.
[12:26] <Riddell> gnomefreak: how would you keep them off public display?
[12:26] <mitsuhiko> mako: +1
[12:27] <mako> because it's violated basically every thing on the list of guildeines that i posted earlier
[12:27] <mako> and that has been on the website for years now
[12:27] <tonyyarusso> Logo derivations should also be expected to adhere to the CoC like everything else.
[12:27] <Riddell> lucasvo: you can vote down items on gnome-look to stop them being displayed
[12:27] <mako> that may still be fine
[12:27] <mako> but they need permission
[12:27] <smurf> lucasvo: define "politically correct". :-/
[12:27] <ogra> mako, sure, but its one example hwre the logo isnt abused like in all the others pointed out
[12:27] <mako> i understand
[12:27] <ompaul> mako the issue that is now faced is the kubuntu name may be missued, this has implications on a larger scale, and frankly one that could be a serious issue, maybe trademark protection should be used to recover problematic domain useage and point it back to base, after a process that is designed and approved by cc or tech board or sabdfl or some some combination of all to protect the name of ubuntu  - done
[12:27] <mako> ogra: "abuse" is subjective
[12:27] <lucasvo> smurf: yeah, that's exactly why I used this term :)
[12:27] <mako> we've got a set of trademark guidelines, and it's the only that most clearly violates those
[12:28] <mako> from a trademark law perspective, it is the one that is most threatening to the existance of the mark
[12:28] <mako> imho
[12:28] <mako> ompaul: trademark law already does cover domain ussage
[12:28] <ogra> mako, free user driven ubuntu derivative == non-abuse, selling support as ubantu.com with the same logo and font == abuse ;)
[12:28] <mako> ompaul: as part of the universal domain name dispute resolution process
[12:28] <smurf> mako: I guess what I'd like to see is a CC resolution that states that the Ubuntu community does not condone using (part of) their look+feel to convey any messages that are ad odds with the Ubuntu philosophy as stated on our home page
[12:28] <gnomefreak> Riddell: you cant really but i think it should be known ubuntu doesnt support those things
[12:28] <mako> ogra: umm..
[12:29] <smurf> which we can point people to
[12:29] <ogra> mako, but i fuly agree they should ask for permission indeed
[12:29] <nalioth> smurf: +1
[12:29] <ompaul> smurf, +1
[12:29] <mdke> when someone has a doubt about the use of the mark, all they have to do is ask, right? We did this once with ubuntu-it, and it was resolved quickly
[12:29] <mako> ogra: i would put it this way: if you're using hte logo in either of those ways, you need a license
[12:29] <mako> ogra: we would be very very happy to give on to nubuntu probably
[12:29] <ogra> thats waht i mean
[12:29] <mako> ogra: and unwilling to give one to ubantu
[12:29] <ogra> yep
[12:29] <mako> but they both need them
[12:29] <mako> yes
[12:29] <mako> there is an email address
[12:29] <mako> i don't know who answers it now
[12:29] <mako> but i used to
[12:29] <mako> which is why i know a little bit about this
[12:30] <mdke> we mailed jane, dunno who gets the trademark mail though
[12:30] <mako><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:30] <mako> and @canonical.com
[12:30] <elmo> marilize is behind trademarks
[12:30] <mako> so, in terms of backgrounds and situations where it's not being used to promote another product or could not likely to confuse anyone into thinking that there is endorsement
[12:31] <elmo> and they've given permission to nubuntu AFAIK
[12:31] <mako> of a political message etc, i'd say it's fine
[12:31] <Yann2> i'm fine with the trademark issue, we already sent a lot of emails to trademark@ :) But what should we do if someone posts a wallpaper like http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=37620 ? Delete it?
[12:31] <mako> elmo: cool
[12:32] <mitsuhiko> ok. i've to go. today is school and it's late
[12:32] <mitsuhiko> good night all
[12:32] <mako> Yann2: my personal opinion is that it's probably not a trademark violtion and should probably just be left
[12:32] <mdke> Yann2, that's not being used to promote another product and won't confuse people into thinking there is endorsement
[12:32] <SHAKAL> bye mitsuhiko
[12:32] <mako> but if people at canonical disagree with me, they matter more on this issue
[12:32] <highvoltage> night mitsuhiko
[12:32] <lucasvo> Yann2: afaik, it doesn't conflicts the trademark usage policy. maybe it conflicts with the law, in that case it should be removed
[12:33] <BlueT_> mitsuhiko: see ya :)
[12:33] <mdke> you can't stop people using your trademark for artistic purposes without any commercial gain, it's just silly
[12:33] <Yann2> -1 for me, I clearly dislike the fact of seeing ubuntu associated with politics, which could be misunderstood by people visiting the website publishing them.
[12:33] <elmo> I tend to agree with mako, FWIW, tho I don't count as Canonical in terms of trademarks
[12:34] <mako> Yann2: i think it's in a forum where it is clearly user-contributed artwork
[12:34] <ogra> Yann2, its just users ... as long as we dont publish it on our website they are as free as the internet lets them
[12:34] <mdke> absolutely
[12:34] <mako> it's like those ubuntu-butts pictures
[12:34] <Yann2> ok, then... agreed.
[12:34] <mdke> mmm
[12:34] <Yann2> let's move on :)
[12:34] <mako> smile, or don't, and move on
[12:34] <ogra> (thats why i found the ubuntu ev reaction a bit ... umm funny)
[12:35] <mdke> ok, we're nearly done. elmo answered the ed/kubuntu members question
[12:35] <mako> mention rear-ends and the conversation ends
[12:35] <kjcole> mako, I was going to mention the bikini bottom logo... ;-)
[12:35] <ogra> kjcole, there is a logo ?
[12:35] <mako> alright
[12:35] <Seveas> about sub-locoteams: brazil and us already have them for instance
[12:35] <lucasvo> kjcole: link? :D
[12:35] <mdke> "Sub" LoCoTeams: this is fairly clearly answered on the locoteam pages, i.e. collaboration is very encouraged, and more locoteams are encouraged too
[12:35] <mako> jerome is correct in answering the last question
[12:36] <mako> sub-locos are fine
[12:36] <mako> they're great
[12:36] <kjcole> ogra, there was a photo on the fridge a while back as I recall...
[12:36] <mako> collaborate where possible
[12:36] <mako> try not to over-fragment so nobody gets anything done
[12:36] <Yann2> fine :)
[12:36] <ogra> kjcole, gah, missed that
[12:36] <kjcole> ogra, lucasvo I just looked but couldn't find it.
[12:36] <ompaul> .cn want to talk to someone aabout them they are population wise huge and cover more space than most
[12:36] <mako> but go ahead, and encourage people to participate in more than one :)
[12:36] <mako> ompaul: that's fine
[12:37] <ogra> ompaul, we'll have to yount them first before we belive them ... :)
[12:37] <ogra> *count
[12:37] <mdke> I tend to think sub locoteams are generally done well if under the overall umbrella of the country they are found in. But that might not work, e.g. in the US :)
[12:37] <kjcole> as a subloco team leader, +8 ;-)
[12:37] <SHAKAL> I go to bed, the work call tomorrow good night. cya@ll
[12:37] <juliux> gn8 SHAKAL
[12:37] <ompaul> ogra, you gona run outa fingers and toes fast :-)
[12:37] <mako> i think that's it
[12:37] <mako> unless there is any other business
[12:37] <mako> alright
[12:38] <mako> we'll meet back here soon
[12:38] <mako> i gotta run
[12:38] <mdke> night all, thanks
[12:38] <Seveas> ciao
[12:38] <mako> later all
[12:38] <ompaul> cheers
[12:38] <mako> elmo: lets actually coordinate this over email :)
[12:38] <ogra> ompaul, yes, but i'm always told .cn has the biggest population in the world ... did *you* actually meet someone who counted that ?
[12:38] <elmo> mako: yeah
[12:39] <eyequeue> um, i'm rather unclear what i should be doing next, input anyone?
[12:39] <ompaul> ogra, almost the offical figures are 1.2 or something like that
[12:39] <ompaul> ogra, me I go for 1.6 or so
[12:39] <ogra> hey, i'm not serious :)
[12:42] <atie_> sorry for whom here for membership today. :(
[12:42] <atie_> bye all
[12:42] <ompaul> ogra, watch the ball bounce :-)
[12:43] <ogra> :)
[12:43] <lucasvo> bye all
[12:43] <lucasvo> ogra: hope to see you at tomorrow
[12:43] <ogra> night lucasvo
[12:43] <lucasvo> been a long time since I last was attending edubuntu meeting :)
[12:44] <ogra> :)
[12:45] <juliux> gn8 all
[12:45] <kjcole> ogra, lucasvo http://www.flickr.com/photos/86444323@N00/81971182/
[12:46] <BlueT_> it's really diffical to show up at every meeting
[12:46] <highvoltage> goodnight, everyone.
[12:46] <BlueT_> when you're living in a UTC+8 timezone
[12:47] <kjcole> ta-ta all.
[12:55] <eyequeue> anyone?
[12:56] <BlueT_> eyequeue: here's one
[12:57] <eyequeue> thanks, BlueT_
[12:58] <BlueT_> eyequeue: no need. i just got sleepless for frequently ubuntu-meetings
[12:58] <eyequeue> BlueT_, did you have a suggestion as to my next action (re: membership)?
[01:00] <BlueT_> eyequeue: i've no idea. i'm here waiting for them kicking me off too. lol
[01:01] <BlueT_> eyequeue: this is my first time too, body :)
[01:01] <Seveas> eyequeue, just wait for mako to mail relevant mailinglists about the next meeting
[01:01] <eyequeue> BlueT_, you have an extensive wiki page :)
[01:02] <BlueT_> eyequeue: the only thing i know and trying to do is making ubuntu better and better :)
[01:02] <eyequeue> Seveas, i'm not subbed to any lists, but certainly can if i need to ... which would that be?  btw, i tried to sub to yours last night but the confirmation bounced, i can email the bounce message to you if it helps??
[01:03] <Seveas> eyequeue, no, the lists on my server are wonky
[01:03] <Seveas> I'll have to fix them
[01:03] <eyequeue> Seveas, nuts.okkernoot.net
[01:04] <eyequeue> Seveas, as far as i can tell, i'm only missing the messages about falcon, correct?
[01:04] <Seveas> and about repo issues
[01:05] <eyequeue> ah, i only found falcon in the list archives
[01:08] <Seveas> on second though - please mail me the bounce
[01:08] <Seveas> that part of the lists should still work
[01:09] <eyequeue> Seveas@ubuntu?
[01:09] <Seveas> dennis@ubuntu
[01:10] <eyequeue> sent :)
[01:11] <Seveas> hmm
[01:12] <Seveas> try adding YES to the subject
[01:12] <Seveas> shouldn't be neccessary though
[01:15] <eyequeue> :) Your subscription request has been succesfully confirmed!
[01:27] <Seveas> apparently the simpleconfirm option is broken in couriermlm
[01:28] <bluekuja> @shedule
[01:30] <bluekuja> shedule@
[01:30] <bluekuja> omg
[01:31] <juliux> @schedule berlin
[01:31] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 19 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 15:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 22:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 15:30: Xubuntu
[01:32] <juliux> @schedule rom
[01:32] <cbx33> @schedule GMT
[01:32] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/GMT: 19 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 13:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 20:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 20:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 13:30: Xubuntu
[01:33] <bimberi> @schedule canberra
[01:33] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Canberra: 19 Apr 22:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 23:30: Xubuntu | 21 Apr 06:00: Dapper Development Status | 26 Apr 06:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 22:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 23:30: Xubuntu
[01:59] <ealden> @schedule manila
[01:59] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Manila: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 21:30: Xubuntu | 21 Apr 04:00: Dapper Development Status | 26 Apr 04:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 21:30: Xubuntu
[02:02] <flint> Good Morning from the frozen north...
[02:03] <kjcole> Thank goodness for Daylight Savings Time....  It's not quite as miserable starting an hour later. ;-)
[02:03] <JaneW> hi all
[02:03] <cbx33> Hi
[02:03] <AndreaVeri> hi JaneW
[02:03] <AndreaVeri> :)
[02:03] <cbx33> Hi AndreaVeri
[02:03] <AndreaVeri> hello pete :)
[02:03] <BugMaN> hi
[02:03] <AndreaVeri> oi BugMaN
[02:04] <BugMaN> andreaveri: :-)
[02:04] <AndreaVeri> jane its all ok?we can start?
[02:04] <JaneW> ok as usual, standard format
[02:04] <AndreaVeri> oliver?
[02:04] <ogra> yep
[02:04] <JaneW> I have made notes to discuss the following The Dev Status, Bug Status, Testing Status, Artwork, Web Site progress, Documentation, Cookbook, Edubuntu Memeber status and anything else required to be discussed.
[02:04] <AndreaVeri> hello :)
[02:04] <AndreaVeri> ok
[02:04] <cbx33> Excellent
[02:04] <JaneW> ogra is busy so let's not take much of his time today
[02:05] <ogra> i'm a tad busy with beta CDs
[02:05] <AndreaVeri> ok perfect
[02:05] <JaneW> ogra can you give us a 5 min update?
[02:05] <AndreaVeri> okie oliver np
[02:05] <ogra> testing of the next build (in 2-3h) would be very appreciated btw
[02:05] <cbx33> I can test the tomorrow
[02:05] <ogra> so tech update ....
[02:06] <flint> ogra, I can try but time is now a problem for me..
[02:06] <JaneW> ogra: time stamp?
[02:06] <ogra> we're building beta ... still missing artwork and edubuntu-docs ...
[02:06] <AndreaVeri> ok ill start testing
[02:06] <JaneW> ogra: is that all that remains now?
[02:06] <AndreaVeri> for me its ok today
[02:06] <ogra> should be  20060419.1 for both
[02:06] <cbx33> where can i get them from?
[02:07] <ogra> some small bugs i didnt manage to fix before beta as well
[02:07] <ogra> i.e. the dhcp.config will currently produce a question on upgrades that shouldnt happen
[02:07] <AndreaVeri> ok
[02:07] <JaneW> ogra: things have gone really well this cycle, well done
[02:07] <ogra> it's a minor change mdz is notified about
[02:08] <JaneW> ogra: we only had the hicoughs with arguing about what was in and what was out initially
[02:08] <ogra> the gobby upstream author contacted me
[02:08] <JaneW> ogra: oh?
[02:08] <cbx33> hehe
[02:08] <flint> ogra, interesting what has gobby got to say...
[02:08] <ogra> JaneW, you remember we had to demote it to universe in london because it depended on howl
[02:08] <JaneW> yes
[02:08] <ogra> he offered me a fix
[02:08] <ogra> *yesterday*
[02:09] <JaneW> oic, too late thogh right?
[02:09] <Klaidas> @schedule GMT+2
[02:09] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/GMT+2: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 11:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 18:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 18:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 10:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 11:30: Xubuntu
[02:09] <ogra> so with a lot of begging at mdz's desk i can probably get it back to main and on the CD
[02:09] <JaneW> ogra: er what's the chance of that?
[02:09] <ogra> it is approved for main
[02:09] <JaneW> ogra: it;s WAY past too late
[02:09] <JaneW> ogra: yes I guess
[02:09] <ogra> so it *could* be a no brainer, depending on mdz
[02:09] <JaneW> ogra: well try, there's no harm in trying
[02:09] <flint> ogra, good luck.
[02:10] <JaneW> unless he beat you up! ;)
[02:10] <ogra> its not to late for something we had already in imho... but its up to him
[02:10] <JaneW> ogra: sure, I agree put the case to him and let him make a call
[02:10] <ogra> i have fixed the issue with dhcpd.conf autogeneration btw
[02:11] <ogra> sadly no dapper material anymore
[02:11] <flint> ogra, is gobby on the cd now?
[02:11] <JaneW> ogra: how are the bugs looking, need triage help?
[02:11] <ogra> flint, not since the london sprint
[02:11] <JaneW> flint: no
[02:11] <flint> damn
[02:11] <ogra> JaneW, not specifically for edubuntu bugs, no
[02:11] <ogra> there are not many
[02:11] <cbx33> good good
[02:11] <JaneW> ogra: do you most need the community to test more than anything else?
[02:11] <ogra> most edubuntu bugs are ubuntu bugs
[02:11] <JaneW> and document!
[02:11] <ogra> yep
[02:11] <JaneW> ogra: yes
[02:12] <cbx33> I can document and test
[02:12] <ogra> while documenting is also on my desk, since nobody knows the ltsp code as good as me, but cbx33 already offered some help
[02:12] <flint> ogra, elkner has a question about this.  i told him that any but on the ubuntu cd reports as an ubuntu bug.  is that ok?
[02:12] <ogra> so i'll just review and flesh out what i get
[02:12] <flint> any bug...
[02:13] <ogra> not really
[02:13] <JaneW> ogra: I do think we are going to need to rely on you for some of the technical documenting (I am happy to do english grammar editing for you, so don't waste time on that), but if there are ppl willing and able to help, that would be wonderful
[02:13] <ogra> having a distinction by package on launchpad wouldnt make much sense that way
[02:13] <cbx33> JaneW:
[02:14] <ogra> JaneW, yep
[02:14] <cbx33> I'm open to all documenting if you need it
[02:15] <flint> ogra, we will need to clarify then how a bug reports.  Keep in mind that in malone now there is no "ubuntu" bug category
[02:15] <ogra> i'll have to write a documented example lts.conf that nobody else will be able to do, but to write manpages for things like ltsp-build-client you just need to check the help of the script and flesh it out a bit
[02:15] <cbx33> Initial setup of ltsp is a must unless it's somewhere i dont know
[02:15] <ogra> so many doc thingies can be done by others
[02:15] <ogra> cbx33, that happens by the installer
[02:16] <ogra> apart from the dhcpd.conf
[02:16] <cbx33> well i was trying to use an existing dhcp server to point to the ltsp server
[02:16] <ogra> the only doc you need post install is https://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPServerSetup
[02:16] <ogra> yes, we need a big warning that you shouldnt run two dhcp servers in one network
[02:16] <cbx33> found that the tftproot doesn't hold the pxelinux.0 file
[02:16] <cbx33> it's in a sub dir
[02:17] <ogra> i was pondering to put it on the CD cover,, but it seemed a bit to scary
[02:17] <ogra> cbx33, which is fine
[02:17] <cbx33> yeh, seeing as it'll be a small amount of people using it
[02:17] <ogra> and which no user should touch anyway
[02:17] <cbx33> ogra: that's ok, just checking
[02:17] <JaneW> cbx33: many thanks for offering to help with this
[02:18] <cbx33> I had to point it with my current dhcp server, after following the wiki links it said just use pxelinux.0 which of course didn;t work....but no biggie
[02:18] <cbx33> JaneW: np
[02:18] <ogra> our tftpserver uses the right values... as long as you user the ltsp-* scripts for maintenance, all should function flawless
[02:18] <cbx33> that's great then
[02:18] <ogra> only special cases need documentation ...
[02:18] <cbx33> indeed
[02:18] <ogra> like powerpc
[02:19] <cbx33> I had that nfs problem too
[02:19] <ogra> (which needs some extra dhcp options)
[02:19] <cbx33> now I'm pretty confident that that's because i was trying to use an existing dhcp server
[02:19] <ogra> yep
[02:19] <ogra> thats one of the most common bugs we have
[02:19] <cbx33> is it possible to put in some docs about that
[02:19] <ogra> sure
[02:19] <cbx33> a lot of people will already have a dhcp server, esp in education
[02:19] <ogra> it should be in the edubuntu getting started doic and in the cookbook faq
[02:20] <cbx33> yes I agree
[02:20] <ogra> its fine if you have a two NIC setup
[02:20] <ogra> you can part the networks easily
[02:20] <cbx33> could we doc that too>
[02:20] <ogra> sure
[02:20] <flint> ogra, ya i thought that a 2 nic setup was standard.
[02:20] <JaneW> ogra: exactly which docs are outstanding?
[02:20] <JaneW> we have 'about Edubuntu' already right?
[02:20] <ogra> flint, nope, one NIC standalone is the standard i worked along
[02:21] <ogra> JaneW, needs polish and some adjustment
[02:21] <JaneW> ogra: is anyone looking at that?
[02:21] <ogra> and no, we dont have it ready to ship yet
[02:21] <ogra> me
[02:21] <cbx33> i can take a look if you want
[02:21] <JaneW> jsgotangco or burgundavia etc?
[02:21] <ogra> its already very good, but needs some edubuntu specific adjustment
[02:21] <JaneW> oic
[02:22] <ogra> and new screenshots
[02:22] <JaneW> where is it now?
[02:22] <ogra> they are made under the ubuntu theme
[02:22] <flint> ogra, interesting implications Olli
[02:22] <JaneW> I wonder if highvoltage could help with that?
[02:22] <ogra> JaneW, he wrote it
[02:23] <ogra> he can help indeed, but simply doesnt know some things
[02:23] <JaneW> er that's not the start-up page though is it?
[02:23] <JaneW> I am referring to the Edubuntu FF page
[02:23] <cbx33> is that new to dapper?
[02:23] <ogra> like you should never ever add MOUSE_PROTOCOL=IMPS/2 to lts.conf since its autodetected... but you *have* to do it in classic ltsp
[02:24] <ogra> the ff page will be "about edubuntu"
[02:24] <ogra> i was planning to just have a link in there to the getting started doc
[02:24] <cbx33> good plan
[02:24] <JaneW> oic, ok
[02:24] <JaneW> I thought it was 2 sep things
[02:24] <ogra> it is
[02:25] <ogra> but i want to link the detailed doc from the common default page ...
[02:25] <ogra> so yu have it right in your face if you open ff for the first time
[02:25] <kjcole> ogra, very sensible.
[02:25] <cbx33> yeh good plan
[02:26] <ogra> http://proto.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted
[02:26] <ogra> btw
[02:26] <ogra> ^^^ there it is currently
[02:27] <kjcole> ogra, slick! Very nice.
[02:27] <ogra> also i missed a lot of accessibility features on the CD, i had to add them yesterday night, they eat most of the free space i worked out the last weeks
[02:27] <flint> ogra, indeed!
[02:27] <JaneW> awesome and wow the site is looking GOOD
[02:27] <AndreaVeri> really nice page
[02:27] <JaneW> *clap* *clap*
[02:27] <ogra> so there goes my big hope for more languages
[02:27] <cbx33> wow excellent work
[02:28] <JaneW> ogra: I see your LTSP diagram is getting used nicely too :))
[02:28] <ogra> yes, highvoltage is very good in this
[02:28] <AndreaVeri> for italian language its ok for me
[02:28] <ogra> JaneW, yeah :)
[02:28] <cbx33> not much adaptation for UK :p
[02:28] <juliux> ogra, i will ask if somebody can translate it into german
[02:28] <JaneW> ok so that addresses my agenda item of web page, and what's happening
[02:28] <ogra> juliux, great !
[02:28] <JaneW> It seems it is happening in stealth-mode
[02:29] <ogra> he occasionally pops in to #edubuntu and asks for opinions
[02:29] <ogra> so its not completely in stealth mode ;)
[02:29] <JaneW> ogra: I haven;t seen that for a while
[02:29] <JaneW> anyway I think it's awesome
[02:29] <ogra> its always there ;)
[02:29] <ogra> yep
[02:30] <JaneW> and I was pretty attached to the first one
[02:30] <ogra> and fits the desktop theme very nicely
[02:30] <JaneW> so it was not an easy expectation to match
[02:30] <JaneW> it our desktop theme set now?
[02:30] <ogra> nope
[02:30] <JaneW> bringing us on to artwork
[02:30] <ogra> i have nothing from silbs
[02:30] <JaneW> :/
[02:30] <JaneW> !
[02:30] <ogra> she was rather busy discussing CD cover text with me
[02:31] <cbx33> silentkeystroke.deviantart.com - any images that can be of use from there feel free to use
[02:31] <ogra> but i know mdz wanted to ask her after the last dev meeting
[02:31] <flint> ogra, are they actually gonna print cds for this dapper edubuntu run?
[02:31] <ogra> cbx33, we are bound to the design agency for the default theme
[02:31] <cbx33> np - just offering :p
[02:31] <ogra> flint, yep
[02:32] <ogra> cbx33, i'd love to just pick one and be done ...
[02:32] <flint> That IS good news!
[02:32] <cbx33> indeed
[02:32] <ogra> but the default has to be from the same agency ubuntu and kubuntu come from
[02:32] <JaneW> ogra: ok we'd better mail her
[02:33] <JaneW> ogra: are the colours not even set?
[02:33] <ogra> i would expect that mdz's mails triggered her
[02:33] <ogra> i dont want to apper pushy
[02:33] <JaneW> ogra: cos I am fairly sure your window frames etc can stay
[02:33] <cbx33> the firefox logo - sorry just a little thing - looks so close to gimp
[02:33] <ogra> i havent heard back about the colors
[02:33] <ogra> imho the colors are fine as is
[02:33] <ogra> as well as the rest of the theme
[02:33] <JaneW> unless the wall paper is VASTLY different
[02:33] <cbx33> indeed
[02:33] <JaneW> and I hope not, else that messes with our web site colours too
[02:34] <ogra> just the wallpaper is missing
[02:34] <ogra> yes
[02:34] <cbx33> can we not impose any type of request there?
[02:34] <ogra> but she said *we never had a colorcode for edubuntu*
[02:34] <JaneW> ogra: yes I am assuming the colours can stay, so it;s shouldn't be too much of a panic
[02:34] <cbx33> like "Please don;t make us do more work"
[02:34] <ogra> that really depends
[02:34] <ogra> they wont work if she reallly comes up with a chalkboard design
[02:34] <JaneW> ogra: well *we* did, maybe it wasn;t generally known or understood though
[02:35] <ogra> yep
[02:35] <ogra> thats what i tried to tell her
[02:35] <ogra> i'm not sure she agrees
[02:35] <JaneW> but atm u-brown, k-blue, e-ornage and red
[02:35] <ogra> yep
[02:35] <ogra> ubuntu is also orange now
[02:35] <JaneW> right
[02:35] <ogra> but rather tangerine ... we're darker
[02:36] <JaneW> we are organge tending to red
[02:36] <cbx33> heheh
[02:36] <JaneW> pumpkin orange
[02:36] <ogra> s/tending/accentuating with/
[02:36] <ogra> :)
[02:36] <flint> ...and in english nothing rymes with us.
[02:37] <flint> :^)
[02:37] <ogra> (red is our cherry on the cake ;) )
[02:37] <JaneW> heh
[02:37] <AndreaVeri> ehhe
[02:37] <cbx33> :p
[02:37] <JaneW> flint: lozenge rhymes loosely
[02:38] <flint> JaneW, are you still taking drugs? :^)
[02:38] <AndreaVeri> hi Seveas
[02:38] <JaneW> ok so we need to pin the artwork down
[02:38] <JaneW> flint: no I am drug-free now! \o/
[02:38] <flint> lol
[02:38] <cbx33> hehehe
[02:38] <JaneW> can't you tell I am all high and manic again?
[02:39] <JaneW> the morbid depression is gone :)
[02:39] <flint> JaneW, I just assumed all this talk about lozenges...
[02:39] <flint> :^)
[02:39] <JaneW> ok edubuntu members
[02:39] <JaneW> ogra: you discussed that with elmo last night
[02:39] <juliux> yeah
[02:39] <cbx33> indeed he did
[02:39] <AndreaVeri> yeah
[02:40] <flint> JaneW, who has debs on green in the ubuntu galixy?
[02:40] <AndreaVeri> the decisions for new members have to be taked by team admins
[02:40] <cbx33> or a nice Blue
[02:40] <AndreaVeri> *taken
[02:40] <AndreaVeri> so oliver and jane
[02:41] <ogra> i'd like to have a *real* council for that
[02:41] <AndreaVeri> oh
[02:41] <ogra> with more than two members
[02:41] <cbx33> it would be good
[02:41] <AndreaVeri> nice
[02:41] <ogra> at least three so one can miss a meeting without holing up everything
[02:41] <cbx33> gives a rounder feel to it and also mimicks the upstream policy
[02:41] <AndreaVeri> yeah perfect
[02:42] <JaneW> flint: you can have it
[02:42] <JaneW> flint: actually I think xubuntu is green...?
[02:42] <flint> JaneW, thanks.
[02:42] <ogra> even five if that makes sense later, but starting with an additional person would be good for the beginning
[02:42] <ogra> JaneW, grey iirc
[02:42] <AndreaVeri> oliver who will decide other 3 members?
[02:43] <JaneW> ogra: yes let's get several memebers to avoid what happened last night
[02:43] <cbx33> the roiginal team mebers ?
[02:43] <JaneW> I think 2 more than required number is good
[02:43] <ogra> yep
[02:43] <ogra> thats a good question
[02:43] <AndreaVeri> yes ^^
[02:43] <ogra> i guess we should make it vial the mailing list
[02:43] <ogra> proposals etc
[02:43] <ogra> then hold a vote in one of the next meetings
[02:43] <AndreaVeri> edubuntu-devel
[02:44] <cbx33> proposal, seconded, vote?
[02:44] <cbx33> works well for our LUG meetings
[02:44] <flint> oh I vote for this...
[02:44] <ogra> who cant be here, can send his/her voting via mail
[02:44] <AndreaVeri> oh ok
[02:44] <AndreaVeri> nice idea
[02:44] <ogra> i'll prepare a mail right after beta is out
[02:44] <AndreaVeri> ok
[02:45] <cbx33> perfect
[02:45] <ogra> note that the council members need to be ubuntu members already
[02:45] <AndreaVeri> yeah ok
[02:45] <cbx33> a good plan
[02:46] <AndreaVeri> i have to go now
[02:46] <flint> ogra, that could limit educators...
[02:46] <cbx33> take care AndreaVeri
[02:46] <AndreaVeri> im really really late
[02:46] <AndreaVeri> see you all later
[02:46] <cbx33> it limits me :p
[02:46] <flint> AndreaVeri, chaio
[02:46] <cbx33> but then I am a new comer :p
[02:46] <flint> AndreaVeri, ciao... better...
[02:46] <ogra> flint, we wont make *any* members without signed CoC, a valuable contribution and a LP account
[02:46] <AndreaVeri> ciao cbx33 , JaneW,ogra,flint
[02:46] <AndreaVeri> ;)
[02:46] <cbx33> is that for just edubuntu membership?
[02:46] <ogra> flint, the exactly same erequirements as for ubuntu membership apply
[02:46] <ogra> cbx33, nope
[02:47] <ogra> you are automatically a ubuntu member if we added you to the edubuntu team
[02:47] <flint> CoC is the public key?
[02:47] <cbx33> just need to get the valued contribution out of the way .......:D
[02:47] <ogra> flint, CoC == code of conduct
[02:47] <cbx33> CoC is the code of conduct signed with the GPG
[02:47] <cbx33> but don't attempt the newer one 1.0.1
[02:47] <kjcole> flint, yeah signing the Code of Conduct with GPG.
[02:47] <cbx33> unles you are goign to do it without putting spaces in the text
[02:48] <cbx33> 1.0.1 has a bug
[02:48] <flint> cbx33, hence my reference to the public key thing...
[02:48] <ogra> just dont modify it ;)
[02:48] <cbx33> heheh
[02:49] <cbx33> Next topic?
[02:49] <ogra> flint, a) you have a CoC linked on your LP page, b) you need to upload your valid gpg key to your LP account, c) you need to click the sign button on the CoC page of your LP account
[02:49] <ogra> thats it
[02:49] <ogra> (unless it changed indeed :P )
[02:49] <flint> ogra, Ollie, I am a bit of an anarchist...  but I will do this if you suggest it...
[02:50] <cbx33> flint: underlying rule : be nice :p
[02:50] <kjcole> flint, I thought you already had.  (Didn't I walk you through that?)
[02:50] <ogra> if you want and @edubuntu.org mail address, you *need* to do that
[02:50] <cbx33> you can be a nice anarchist
[02:50] <kjcole> cbx33, well I guess that leaves flint out. ;-)
[02:50] <cbx33> hehehe
[02:50] <cbx33> ogra: how often can people apply for edubuntu membership?
[02:51] <ogra> as often as they want
[02:51] <flint> cbx33, FITS == Flint Induced Touretts Syndrome, ask anyone how you can get it...
[02:51] <cbx33> flint: by touching you :p
[02:51] <ogra> there is no limitation in ubuntu, why should we have one
[02:51] <JaneW> but applications will only be considered once a month to start
[02:51] <cbx33> ogra: i meant how often will you approve new members
[02:51] <ogra> cbx33, talking to him is usually enough :P
[02:51] <cbx33> aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhh
[02:51] <ogra> cbx33, we thought about once a month
[02:52] <ogra> (the first meeting every month)
[02:52] <cbx33> sounds good, by that time I should have made my valuable contribution
[02:52] <cbx33> hehehe
[02:52] <ogra> youre already doing
[02:52] <flint> ogra, Oliver, somethimes just thinking about me will do it...
[02:52] <ogra> the testreport was really awesome :)
[02:52] <ogra> flint, heh
[02:52] <flint> :^)
[02:53] <cbx33> thank you ogra want one on ltsp as i have tested so far
[02:53] <cbx33> I'll try and try out the flight 6 one tomorrow
[02:53] <ogra> rather test the beta release :)
[02:53] <ogra> flight 6 is old
[02:53] <cbx33> ok
[02:54] <cbx33> where can i get a copy
[02:54] <cbx33> link in the topic?
[02:54] <ogra> flint, btw: https://shipit.edubuntu.org/ exists
[02:54] <cbx33> ogra: is kwiki in the edubuntu release?
[02:55] <flint> ogra, thanks
[02:55] <ogra> cbx33, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/
[02:55] <cbx33> thanx ogra
[02:55] <ogra> nope we dont have wiki software included by default
[02:55] <kjcole> ogra, NICE!  We've got some LoCo events coming up, and it may be time to put in a shipit request soon.
[02:55] <cbx33> ogra: good...it's broken
[02:55] <ogra> we discussed it, but the moin vs mediawiki argument came up
[02:55] <cbx33> i see
[02:56] <ogra> so we leave them both optional in universe :)
[02:56] <cbx33> I'm working on a fix, but it leads to a string of unsync'd dependencies
[02:56] <leetcharmer> hihi all :D
[02:56] <leetcharmer> how's the meeting goin'?
[02:57] <cbx33> which I'm having to request UVF exceptions on
[02:57] <cbx33> great leetcharmer
[02:57] <leetcharmer> cbx33, good :D what have did I miss so far?
[02:57] <ogra> cbx33, if UFV exceptions fix blocker bugs,, they usually get approval
[02:58] <cbx33> ogra: think there's a chance of getting sadms in edubuntu at somepoint
[02:58] <cbx33> or a similar utility?
[02:58] <JaneW> also thanks to mgalvin, we have https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDapperBeta
[02:58] <JaneW> but it needs to be fleshed out
[02:58] <ogra> sadms ?
[02:58] <ogra> did he add my feature list already ?
[02:59] <cbx33> the configuration utility for linux to auth against a MS AD
[02:59] <ogra> hmm and the participate link is wrong ... didnt we have our own participate page ?
[03:00] <ogra> hmm, actually no
[03:00] <ogra> the wiki has some rough statements on the frontpage
[03:00] <ogra> but thats all
[03:00] <ogra> we could need a proper "participate" page then
[03:00] <cbx33> that'd be good
[03:01] <leetcharmer> so -- is Edubuntu ready for the dapper beta release in 11 hrs?
[03:01] <ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki "how can i help" is a bit sparse
[03:01] <cbx33> of course
[03:01] <cbx33> ogra: is working hard
[03:01] <ogra> leetcharmer, sure
[03:01] <cbx33> for someone who could only spend 10 minutes :p
[03:01] <cbx33> I think he's done amazing
[03:01] <leetcharmer> cool :D
[03:01] <ogra> actually rather my nerves work hard ... most of the time is waiting for LP
[03:01] <leetcharmer> LP?
[03:01] <ogra> which is most annoying
[03:02] <cbx33> heheh
[03:02] <cbx33> I know the feeling
[03:02] <cbx33> LaunchPad
[03:02] <leetcharmer> gotcha
[03:02] <ogra> 3h until a change is up ...
[03:02] <flint> don't we have to pay the Presley estate to use the "...left the building" thing?
[03:02] <ogra> then another hour to get CDs ...
[03:02] <ogra> then syncing ...
[03:02] <ogra> (which is also almost 1h for all isos)
[03:02] <leetcharmer> I hope Ubuntu final release gets better support for my laptop than Flight 5 did :D
[03:03] <cbx33> i hope the battery applet is fixed in dapper
[03:03] <leetcharmer> worked fine for me
[03:03] <leetcharmer> what's the problem been?
[03:03] <cbx33> it always says AC power
[03:03] <cbx33> but that's offtopic now
[03:03] <flint> ogra, you are building the final flight then right now.
[03:03] <cbx33> what's next on the agenda?
[03:03] <leetcharmer> final flight = beta, no?
[03:03] <ogra> there will be more fligts
[03:04] <flint> so we are at flight 7 in this build
[03:04] <ogra> we still have some weeks ahead, people shall see the progress
[03:04] <leetcharmer> ogra, you gonna make a flight 6 before the beta release?
[03:05] <ogra> you mean that flight 6 from two weeks ago ? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/dapper/flight-6/
[03:05] <bimberi> leetcharmer: flight6 is out - http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/dapper/flight-6/ :)
[03:05] <leetcharmer> I mean 7**
[03:05] <bimberi> ah
[03:05] <ogra> nope, beta == flight 7
[03:05] <leetcharmer> gotcha :D
[03:05] <leetcharmer> did we get new graphics yet? :D:D:D:D
[03:06] <ogra> ther will be the release candidate and i guess at least another milestone release inbetween
[03:06] <flint> ogra, I thought it was 7 and like it better than beta as a name... 7 being a lucky number...
[03:06] <flint> :^)
[03:06] <leetcharmer> :p no such thing as luck
[03:06] <leetcharmer> ^_^
[03:06] <ogra> nope, no new wallpaper yet
[03:06] <ogra> we're still waiting
[03:07] <JaneW> ok so I'll try to chase the wallpaper with silbs and toxic
[03:07] <ogra> and given that i wont change the CD if its not oversized in this build i currently wait for, it wont happen for beta
[03:07] <JaneW> let get going with the doc translations
[03:07] <JaneW> the site looks great
[03:07] <ogra> yeah
[03:07] <JaneW> and ogra will ask mdz about gobby
[03:07] <JaneW> and get beta out
[03:07] <ogra> :)
[03:07] <leetcharmer> d'oh!
[03:07] <ogra> after beta
[03:07] <JaneW> everyone else test and report back please
[03:07] <ogra> he's busy enough atm
[03:07] <JaneW> ogra: ok
[03:07] <bimberi> ogra: will the url (in 3 hours) be http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/dapper/beta/dapper-install-i386.iso  ?
[03:07] <cbx33> of course
[03:08] <JaneW> let's leave ogar to get on with it
[03:08] <ogra> bimberi, nope
[03:08] <JaneW> thanks for the time ogra
[03:08] <ogra> that'll be the url if the beta release is actually out
[03:08] <leetcharmer> will edubuntu dapper have a 'create thin client server' setting that sets up all connected machines on a network?
[03:08] <bimberi> ogra: ah kk
[03:08] <ogra> bimberi, if you already have an older iso around, rsync is the far better choice
[03:09] <cbx33> ogra: where can we find the url
[03:09] <ogra> (rsyncing between two dailies happens for me in ~10 min, while a wget download trakes 2h)
[03:09] <ogra> cbx33, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/
[03:09] <flint> ogra, would you care to spew out a working rsync line?  this would help us get it right at our sites...
[03:09] <bimberi> ogra: ah, gotcha - use the daily build :)
[03:10] <cbx33> cheers ogra
[03:10] <flint> ogra, rsync and I get along but only a little, and I very much like that idea.
[03:10] <ogra> the recent upcoming daily and daily-live ( 20060419.1) should be fine (if they are not oversized due to the added accessibility stuff)
[03:10] <cbx33> ogra: which ltsp stuff do you need me to document?
[03:11] <bimberi> ^^^^^
[03:11] <ogra> cbx33, the scripts first place
[03:11] <leetcharmer> hwat!
[03:11] <leetcharmer> hawt**!!
[03:11] <ogra> ltsp-build-client -upadte-sshkeys and -update-kernel
[03:11] <leetcharmer> I like EdgyEft :D
[03:11] <cbx33> np I'll get on with that, have they changed much from breezy to dapper?
[03:12] <cbx33> seeing as I don;t have time to install edubuntu dapper at the moment, is ther eanywhere I could get a copy of the scripts from....so i can start docing on the way home?
[03:12] <cbx33> ogra: do you use sgml for man pages?
[03:13] <ogra> apt-get source ltsp
[03:13] <ogra> look in the server subdir
[03:13] <flint> ogra, I may actually try to get a wiki going on this rsync thing... downloading the isos is a drag.
[03:13] <cbx33> thanks ogra
[03:13] <ogra> flint, i have a rsync script
[03:13] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/rsyncer.sh
[03:13] <flint> ogra, thanks, I could really use it.
[03:14] <flint> ogra, damn, thanks.  This could be widely published and available...
[03:14] <ogra> run it with --help to see the options ... it defaults to create an edubuntu directory in your current dir
[03:14] <ogra> and to download live and install for all arches
[03:14] <ogra> you might want to restrict that :)
[03:15] <cbx33> heheheh
[03:15] <flint> ogra, my god the damn thing is 300 lines long and bulletproof you scare me Oliver!!!!
[03:15] <cbx33> sorry ogra - one last question, where does one apply for edubuntu member status  - for future reference
[03:16] <flint> ogra, ok, only 138 lines, but it is still a thing of beauty.  needs a wiki page ma man...
[03:16] <ogra> cbx33, https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-members
[03:16] <cbx33> and the offer is still there if you guys want youthLUG to test anything out
[03:17] <cbx33> thanx ogra
[03:17] <ogra> ok, we are over time, lets move to #edubuntu
[03:18] <flint> ogra, really nice.
[03:18] <freeflying> ogra: how to aplly for edubuntu membership
[03:18] <ogra> :)
[03:18] <ogra> freeflying,  https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-members
[03:19] <freeflying> ogra: seems need approved
[03:19] <ogra> freeflying, sure
[03:19] <ogra> its the same as ubuntumembers
[03:19] <cbx33> of course freeflying
[03:20] <ogra> i.e. you have to go through the full newmember process for it
[03:20] <freeflying> come to the CC for it ?
[03:21] <ogra> freeflying, nope
[03:21] <ogra> i'll mail edubuntu-devel about the proicess next week or on the weekend (after beta)
[03:32] <janimo> hi, sorry I thought it was Tuesday
[03:33] <nomed> eheh
[03:33] <janimo> do we have an agenda?
[03:33] <janimo> nomed, thanks for the poke :)
[03:33] <nomed> janimo: not really
[03:33] <janimo> hmm, let's improvise again then
[03:34] <nomed> janimo: this are some notes
[03:34] <nomed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanieleFavara/DapperXubuntuEspresso
[03:34] <janimo> the main topic now is testing BETA candidate CDs
[03:34] <janimo> nomed, hmm we have nautilus and metacity stuff on the CD??
[03:34] <janimo> sneaky
[03:35] <nomed> janimo: it should be fixed now
[03:35] <janimo> oh on the liveCD, that;s fin
[03:35] <nomed> it was python-gnome2-extras
[03:35] <janimo> fixed? did COlin drop that?
[03:35] <nomed> called by espresso gtk ui
[03:35] <nomed> Kamion: told me yes
[03:36] <janimo> ok, anyway since it is on the live it's not such a big problem
[03:36] <nomed> as the function that imports gtkmozembed is commented ...
[03:36] <janimo> with gconf we have to live in the install as sevaral packages use it
[03:36] <janimo> aha I see
[03:36] <janimo> cool
[03:37] <janimo> then we'll have an even smalled liveCD :)
[03:37] <janimo> the small fonts I did not see
[03:37] <janimo> I wil be testing more today
[03:37] <nomed> janimo: it's strange that
[03:37] <nomed> if i use dpi 96 in firefox they are really small
[03:37] <nomed> for me at least
[03:38] <nomed> if i use system default
[03:38] <nomed> they are bigger
[03:38] <Kamion> nomed: not uploaded yet, but will be today
[03:38] <nomed> even if xinitrc sets them to 96
[03:39] <nomed> Kamion: yep
[03:41] <nomed> janimo: it's possible then xarchiver 0.4 will not be ready for dapper
[03:41] <nomed> that means we have to add patches
[03:41] <janimo> nomed, I assumed so. I'll try to stabilize 0.3.1 . Oh well
[03:42] <nomed> the devel already sent me the ones that are needed
[03:42] <janimo> the thunar plugin is too nice to miss
[03:42] <janimo> nomed, why can they not release 0.3.2 themselves
[03:42] <nomed> janimo: i don't really know
[03:42] <janimo> now they have svn there's no excuse for sending patches :)
[03:43] <janimo> nomed, yes I know you don't know, sorry :)
[03:43] <nomed> thay are considering 0.4 as next release
[03:43] <nomed> just that
[03:43] <nomed> :/
[03:43] <janimo> I would have preferred they started learning gtk after dapper releases ;)
[03:44] <janimo> nomed, the startpage problem is expected, we'll mention it in the release notes
[03:44] <janimo> did you chose en_GB locale right?
[03:45] <nomed> janimo: yes
[03:46] <janimo> ok, we should gather the known problems on a wiki page and point to it from the announcement
[03:46] <nomed> janimo: what's nice is that he told me xarchiver now is really faster ..
[03:46] <janimo> so they know we are on them
[03:46] <janimo> nomed, that's nice
[03:46] <janimo> although I am not sure how often one deals with 60K files in one archive
[03:46] <janimo> ;)
[03:46] <nomed> eheheh
[03:47] <janimo> if it's faster because they cleaned up and structured the code better great
[03:47] <janimo> if it's faster because they started optimizing while still having unsolved bugs, less great . but it's their project :)
[03:48] <nomed> ehehe .. i guess it's both of them
[03:48] <nomed> better support for same archives .. but still issues on others
[03:49] <janimo> if we cover tar.gz, bz2 ans zip I say that's good enough
[03:49] <janimo> iso images support is not that necessary
[03:49] <janimo> or arj for that matter
[03:49] <nomed> janimo: these should be already supported
[03:51] <nomed> janimo: i do not think there is that much to say
[03:51] <janimo> right
[03:51] <janimo> we should just test the current ISOs a lot
[03:51] <nomed> maybe just to define a deadline for that color scheme stuff ?
[03:51] <janimo> which I'll do as soon as rsycn finishes
[03:51] <janimo> nomed, yes that too
[03:52] <janimo> although I hoped that afer trying beta we will see what users think of the current artwork
[03:53] <janimo> but I still find it hard to choose between those proposals since it's not only the color theme that is different
[03:53] <nomed> i'm not subscribed to #ubuntu-art .. it would be nice if someone (that is) could send a mail
[03:53] <janimo> I am not either :)
[03:54] <janimo> but that may become more extravagant proposals when all we need now is converging on what we have
[03:54] <janimo> I'll set a deadline for next monday then.
[03:54] <janimo> and tell the list
[03:55] <nomed> better yes :)
[03:55] <nomed> that seems to be what we have :)
[03:56] <nomed> janimo: if you decided to include OOo there is a known issue
[03:56] <janimo> nomed, which?
[03:57] <janimo> it's on the install CD currently
 i changed from "ooffice -calc %U" to "oocalc %U" and then its fine
[03:57] <janimo> but I have yet to try it
[03:57] <janimo> hmm, packages missing?
[03:57] <nomed> i do not have OOo so i don't know ..
[03:57] <nomed> janimo: well more a desktop files issue
[03:57] <janimo> there are a few transitional packages that need to be added probably
[03:57] <janimo> nomed, thanks I'll look into it
[03:57] <nomed> Exec: entries
[03:58] <janimo> aha
[03:59] <janimo> I don't have an ooffice command
[03:59] <janimo> I wonder what installs it in the menu
[03:59] <janimo> actually I do
[03:59] <janimo> misspelled it
[04:01] <nomed> janimo: i do not see anywere "minimal system requirements" for xubuntu
[04:01] <nomed> that's something users ask often ...
[04:01] <janimo> nomed, we don;t know what they are :)
[04:02] <janimo> I ran it (sluggishly) on 64M 600MHz
[04:02] <janimo> obviously the memory is that matters more
[04:02] <nomed> we should figure it out i guess :)
[04:02] <janimo> right, hopefully by tomorrow, after the CDs are installed
[04:03] <nomed> that's what (possible) new users usually ask on #xubuntu
[04:03] <strapal> without libjpeg-progs, i can,t rotate my images in gqview - why isnt this package on the CD?
[04:04] <janimo> strapal, a bug most likely
[04:04] <janimo> strapal, I'll add it to the desktop, thanks. it's in main so it's ok
[04:05] <strapal> aha, thx
[04:06] <janimo> strapal: ok, should be in next xubuntu-desktop, but not likely for beta
[04:08] <janimo> ok, anything else?
[05:35] <lapo> hi


[12:26] <JamEngulfer221> If I have an upstart script and I run exec, does that block the rest of the script from executing until said process is finished?
[12:27] <JamEngulfer221> Likewise, if I call a script with exec in it from another script, will the parent script have execution blocked in the same way?
[21:56] <supergonkas> hey anyone around?


[20:27] <nagyz> jamespage, how can I add more ceph-osd units after I already deployed it? add-unit doesn't take any constraint (and would need a machine to be specified)
[21:01] <rick_h___> nagyz: you can use the --to flag with add-unit. Check out juju help add-unit
[21:07] <jamespage> nagyz, add-unit --to would work
[21:07] <jamespage> like rick_h__ said :-)
[21:15] <nagyz> --to tells it which machine to deploy to but that's not exactly what I want, right?
[21:16] <nagyz> anyways, if I just call add-unit it seems to honor the tags that was originally used with deploy
[21:16] <nagyz> I actually wanted it to grab new machines, just from the ones available with the tags I specified
[21:16] <nagyz> jamespage, there is also something broken with the ceph-osd charm - I've opened a bug for it.
[21:58] <marcoceppi> nagyz: so constraints are applied to a service, so it'll remember those constraints even with add-unit
[21:59] <marcoceppi> nagyz: if you wnated to do something /other/ than those constraints, you would need to `juju add-machine --constraints <..>` then `juju add-unit --to <new-machine-#>`
[22:37] <marcoceppi-shout> marcoceppi hello
[22:37] <marcoceppi> marcoceppi-shout: hello
[22:38] <marcoceppi> marcoceppi-shout: hello ello